953 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e5100e72f2f71719bdf63b2598fcb000.pdf 02789c906db9da4abae982f4525f0b49 PDF Text Text ����� https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e1960555fd2060a9109028fa885bd0e5.pdf 1964cc4ead76cade0294f7d5f49a997c PDF Text Text [RHC-93_Agnes_1945-02-22] [Page 1] February 22, 1945 My Darling, Received your letter of the 9th and must say I was very pleased to get it. I sure do appreciate your letters, especially when they’re so few and far between. I thought you sounded quite cheerful in this last V-mail, and I was quite encouraged. I’m anxiously waiting to get the package you sent and I’m wondering what’s in it. I know you just love to keep me guessing don’t you? Yes, darling I did visit Helen and I had a grand time. To think I wrote to you everyday while I was there and you didn’t get any of my letters just about makes me sick. [Page 2] I’m still praying for your safety “darling” and I hope the Lord will send you home to me soon. It seems as if you’ve just got to come home soon. Don’t you think so? Oh! darling I’m so anxious for you to see my cedar chest. I had my order in for quite awhile and I finally got mine. It’s walnut and sure is very pretty. Dad says it’s made good and has a good finish. I paid for it out of your money $40.00. I did this because you wanted me to have one, and you’ll have a lot of use out of it someday too. I got it on Valentine’s Day so I can {red lipstick imprint} [Page 3] call it a valentine from you. I always think of you “darling” and not a day goes by that I fail to. I still love you with all my heart, and miss you just as much. Oh! happy day when you’re home again to stay. I got a letter from Janice the other day, and by the way she writes, I guess they are coming here for Easter. I hope so, and I wish you were going to be here too. Well “sweets” I shall close for this time and write real soon and often. Yours always With all my Love Agnes {red lipstick imprint} �[Envelope front] Agnes Van Der Weide 1913 Berkley Ave. S.W. Grand Rapids 9, Mich. {Postmark} GRAND RAPIDS FEB 23 2 PM 1945 MICH. VIA AIR MAIL S/Sgt. Joseph P. Olexa (12016893) Det. of Patients 4152 U.S. Army Hospital A.P.O. – 63 c/o P.M. New York, N. Y. [Envelope back] S.W.A.K. {Postmark} U.S. ARMY 1 BPO 13 MCH POSTAL SERVICE CONTROL SECTION � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Joe Olexa letters Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Olexa, Joseph P. Van Der Weide, Agnes Description An account of the resource Collection of letters between Joseph Olexa and Agnes Van Der Weide, dating from 1941 to 1946. Olexa fought in the U.S. Army 26th Infantry Division, Company "L", and eventually attained the rank of Staff Sergeant. Over the course of World War II, Olexa was engaged in North Africa, Sicily, France, Belgium, and Germany. He fought in the Invasion of Normandy, the liberation of Belgium, the Battle of Hürtgen Forest, and the Battle of the Bulge. While deployed abroad, Olexa maintained regular correspondence with Agnes Van Der Weide, a young woman he met through mutual friends. Agnes was the daughter of Benjamin and Minnie (Ter Meer) Van Der Weide. The Van Der Weide family lived in Jamestown, Michigan and Ashburnham, Massachusetts until moving to Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1943. While the letters do not contain details relating to Olexa's military activities, due to heavy censorship of soldiers' correspondence by the U.S. Army, the letters do depict the daily activities of an infantry soldier and illustrate the blossoming romance between the two. Joseph and Agnes were married July 23, 1945, and lived in West Michigan until Agnes's death in 1993. Joseph Olexa died December 3, 2000. They were survived by their son, Karl Olexa. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1941/1946 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/543">Joseph P. Olexa WWII memoir and correspondence (RHC-93)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource United States. Army. Infantry Division, 26th World War, 1939-1945 Soldiers -- Michigan Correspondence Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-93 Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-93_Agnes_1945-02-22 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Der Weide, Agnes Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1945-02-22 Title A name given to the resource Letter from Agnes Van Der Weide to Joe Olexa, February 22, 1945 Description An account of the resource Handwritten letter and envelope with transcript by Agnes Van Der Weide to Joe Olexa, dated February 22, 1945. The envelope is sent from 1913 Berkley Ave. S.W., Grand Rapids, Michigan, dated February 23, 1945. In the letter, Agnes writes how she is eagerly awaiting the gift package Joe sent to her and how sorry she was regarding her previous letters being undelivered during her time away with Helen. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Army. Infantry Division, 26th World War, 1939-1945 Soldiers -- Michigan Correspondence Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href=" https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/543">Joseph P. Olexa WWII memoir and correspondence, (RHC-93)</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href=" http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f043caf7986a9e312463b848095221cc.pdf 3153fc76f0d1db3be2a4560f3c7fc349 PDF Text Text ����� https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/41efa8ffa4685408f98f5e6d4ec4ab55.pdf 92786ab404824c7082599ade05aec963 PDF Text Text [RHC-93_Agnes_1945-03-08] [Page 1] March 8, 1945 My dearest Darling: I either don’t hear from you at all, or everything comes at once. You could have knocked me over with a feather when I got your picture. I’m so please with it “honey” that I can hardly tell you in words. I’ve got it in front of my now, and I wish I could take you right out of the picture into my arms. Wouldn’t that be heavenly though. I sure do think you’re looking good, and as far as I can see you haven’t changed one bit. My folks think its swell too. So much for the picture. I also got the souveners you sent me, and I sure was tickled. I think they’re darling, and to think you made [Page 2] them with your own hands. Last but not least I got the valentines and they sure are sweet. I’m so pleased with them. I hope you got the one I sent you. Don’t think I forgot about your birthday “darling” but it’s going to be a little late. I’ll tell you I had my picture taken for you, just like I did last year, and for some reason or other (paper shortage) it takes a long time to get them made. However, I think you’ll be pleased when you get it. A new furniture store opened downtown and its open every night this week for inspection. Mother, Dad, my girlfriend and myself [Page 3] went down to look tonight. Oh! “darling” it just puts me in the fever to buy furniture. I wish we were furnishing our home already, don’t you? We could have so much fun. Anyway we’ve got something to look forward to. My mother and I are redecorating my bedroom. I painted the ceiling all by myself. Do you believe me. Its sure going to look different. I hope you’re going to like my cedar chest “darling.” I’m pretty sure you will though. {red lipstick imprint} Mother got her letter from you, and she was very pleased. I didn’t get mine though, as yet. I sure hope [Page 4] and pray you get that 30 day furlough. Keep on trying for it and don’t give up. �I’m sending you a couple snapshots and hope you like them. This will give you an idea what my fur coat looks like. I shall close until later. Your future wife All my Love Agnes {signature accent mark} {red lipstick imprint} [Envelope front] Agnes Van Der Weide 1913 Berkley Ave. S.W. Grand Rapids 9, Mich. {Postmark} GRAND RAPIDS MAR 9 7 PM 1945 MICH. VIA AIR MAIL S/Sgt. Joseph P. Olexa (12016893) Det. of Patients 4152 U.S. Hosp. Plant A.P.O. – 63 c/o P.M. New York, N. Y. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Joe Olexa letters Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Olexa, Joseph P. Van Der Weide, Agnes Description An account of the resource Collection of letters between Joseph Olexa and Agnes Van Der Weide, dating from 1941 to 1946. Olexa fought in the U.S. Army 26th Infantry Division, Company "L", and eventually attained the rank of Staff Sergeant. Over the course of World War II, Olexa was engaged in North Africa, Sicily, France, Belgium, and Germany. He fought in the Invasion of Normandy, the liberation of Belgium, the Battle of Hürtgen Forest, and the Battle of the Bulge. While deployed abroad, Olexa maintained regular correspondence with Agnes Van Der Weide, a young woman he met through mutual friends. Agnes was the daughter of Benjamin and Minnie (Ter Meer) Van Der Weide. The Van Der Weide family lived in Jamestown, Michigan and Ashburnham, Massachusetts until moving to Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1943. While the letters do not contain details relating to Olexa's military activities, due to heavy censorship of soldiers' correspondence by the U.S. Army, the letters do depict the daily activities of an infantry soldier and illustrate the blossoming romance between the two. Joseph and Agnes were married July 23, 1945, and lived in West Michigan until Agnes's death in 1993. Joseph Olexa died December 3, 2000. They were survived by their son, Karl Olexa. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1941/1946 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/543">Joseph P. Olexa WWII memoir and correspondence (RHC-93)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource United States. Army. Infantry Division, 26th World War, 1939-1945 Soldiers -- Michigan Correspondence Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-93 Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-93_Agnes_1945-03-08 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Der Weide, Agnes Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1945-03-08 Title A name given to the resource Letter from Agnes Van Der Weide to Joe Olexa, March 8, 1945 Description An account of the resource Handwritten letter and envelope with transcript by Agnes Van Der Weide to Joe Olexa, dated March 8, 1945. The envelope is sent from 1913 Berkley Ave. S.W., Grand Rapids, Michigan, dated March 9, 1945. In the letter, Agnes expresses her excitement over receiving the care package from Joe including a treasured photograph of him, handmade souvenirs, and valentines. She also writes that she is looking forward to his birthday and dreams of the day when they can furnish their future home together. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Army. Infantry Division, 26th World War, 1939-1945 Soldiers -- Michigan Correspondence Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href=" https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/543">Joseph P. Olexa WWII memoir and correspondence, (RHC-93)</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href=" http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fb034fcf0ca4ef40e190fc86b177df2e.pdf 299148485d3bfc9ddfab119bc73e6667 PDF Text Text ���� https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/55546846aa4f69aa48935d3dafc68c0e.pdf 724c81c924297d3f2a70d0621b298510 PDF Text Text [RHC-93_Agnes_1945-03-13] [Page 1] March 13, 1945 My dearest Darling: Received your V-mail of Mar. 4, and sure was glad to hear from you again. I sure hope the letters keep coming like they used too, and you’ll feel more like writing. Do you think you’re going to like your new assignment? Its such a relief to me to know you’re not going back to the front again. I still love you with all my heart “darling” and miss you very much. I’m praying that you’ll soon get a furlough and come home to me. I sure do like the picture you sent me “sweets” and I keep looking at it all the time. I want to thank {red lipstick imprint} [Page 2] you again for the souveners in case you don’t get some of my letters. Spring is almost here again. How time does fly! Do you ever hear anything of Ray? I haven’t heard anything about him for ages. Alice wrote and told me Carolyn’s brother is getting married. He’s marrying a girl from Maine. I don’t think Carolyn’s got a boyfriend. I wonder if she believes yet that we’re engaged. I shall have to close “sweets” because this is the last of my paper. All my Love Your future wife Agnes {signature accent mark} {red lipstick imprint} [Envelope front] Agnes Van Der Weide 1913 Berkley Ave. S.W. Grand Rapids 9, Mich. {Postmark} GRAND RAPIDS �MAR 14 3 PM 1945 MICH. VIA AIR MAIL S/Sgt. Joseph P. Olexa (12016893) [?] A.P.O. – [?] c/o Postmaster New York, N. Y. [Envelope back] S.W.A.K. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Joe Olexa letters Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Olexa, Joseph P. Van Der Weide, Agnes Description An account of the resource Collection of letters between Joseph Olexa and Agnes Van Der Weide, dating from 1941 to 1946. Olexa fought in the U.S. Army 26th Infantry Division, Company "L", and eventually attained the rank of Staff Sergeant. Over the course of World War II, Olexa was engaged in North Africa, Sicily, France, Belgium, and Germany. He fought in the Invasion of Normandy, the liberation of Belgium, the Battle of Hürtgen Forest, and the Battle of the Bulge. While deployed abroad, Olexa maintained regular correspondence with Agnes Van Der Weide, a young woman he met through mutual friends. Agnes was the daughter of Benjamin and Minnie (Ter Meer) Van Der Weide. The Van Der Weide family lived in Jamestown, Michigan and Ashburnham, Massachusetts until moving to Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1943. While the letters do not contain details relating to Olexa's military activities, due to heavy censorship of soldiers' correspondence by the U.S. Army, the letters do depict the daily activities of an infantry soldier and illustrate the blossoming romance between the two. Joseph and Agnes were married July 23, 1945, and lived in West Michigan until Agnes's death in 1993. Joseph Olexa died December 3, 2000. They were survived by their son, Karl Olexa. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1941/1946 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/543">Joseph P. Olexa WWII memoir and correspondence (RHC-93)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource United States. Army. Infantry Division, 26th World War, 1939-1945 Soldiers -- Michigan Correspondence Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-93 Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-93_Agnes_1945-03-13 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Der Weide, Agnes Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1945-03-13 Title A name given to the resource Letter from Agnes Van Der Weide to Joe Olexa, March 13, 1945 Description An account of the resource Handwritten letter and envelope with transcript by Agnes Van Der Weide to Joe Olexa, dated March 13, 1945. The envelope is sent from 1913 Berkley Ave. S.W., Grand Rapids, Michigan, dated March 14, 1945. In the letter, Agnes expresses her relief over Joe's new assignment away from the front lines and hopes he will receive a furlough to return home once again. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Army. Infantry Division, 26th World War, 1939-1945 Soldiers -- Michigan Correspondence Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href=" https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/543">Joseph P. Olexa WWII memoir and correspondence, (RHC-93)</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href=" http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8560762fcc8cc3592fe1d808c8e956d1.mp4 cfcfca893ad83e30ce18b3f5359007e0 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d8f62dbbc874c592bf85730e0cd87726.pdf 16288c1dbbe11cfc8c32ef30b287eca1 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Melvin Van Dis World War II Total Time: 1:48:02 Childhood and Pre-Enlistment (00:00) • • • • • Born in 1925 Father was a paper ruler for Doubleday Brothers. He had a job all the way through the Depression. Took some college prep courses during high school. Attended Western Michigan College and played basketball there (0:05:55) Drafted in Fall 1943. Training (0:06:45) • • • • • • • • Was sent to Fort Custer, Michigan for induction and then to Camp Fannin in Eastern Texas. They were trained as replacements for both theatres of war. They were given a choice of Pacific or Atlantic theatres, and he chose the Atlantic theatre because of the prospect of being treated better if they were captured. (0:10:21) In basic, they learned the basic skills for war. He also learned how to take authority. They were brought in and shipped out as possible. He spent 3 months in basic training. (0:12:38) He was with a number of older men during his basic training. (0:13:40) They were given a 10 day furlough, and then shipped to Fort Meade, Maryland where they awaited deployment. During basic training, he applied to Officers Candidate School, and was informed that he was accepted. However by the time he was accepted, they were no longer taking applicants, so he did not attend. They were taught on the M1 Rifle only during basic training. They were able to get off of base some during training in Texas, but they were not able to get off the base in Maryland. Active Duty (0:17:18) • • • • Was shipped across the Atlantic in a convoy. One of the ships in the convoy was hit during the crossing and sunk. They left from Maryland in February on a standard troop ship with around 400 men. (0:19:32) Landed in Southern England, and was then shipped to Northern Ireland. He remembers the people around the camp being very poor, and using what was disposed of by the army at the camp. (0:21:30) Was given more specific intense training in Ireland for the D-Day Landings. �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • (0:21:40) He was attached to the 1st Division, which had just been fighting in Sicily before he arrived. They had suffered many casualties in Sicily, so when he arrived around 2/3 of the men in the division were replacements. (0:26:40) Was then sent to Weymouth in Southern England. They were initially in a camp, which they could not leave. After some time there, they moved to the landing craft where they spent the week before the invasion. (0:30:30) His boat left the night of June 5th for Normandy. (0:32:10) He remembers crossing the English Channel and hearing the American bombardment of Normandy and feeling comforted by that. (0:32:55) The Germans had placed obstacles and holes on the beach, which made it difficult to land on the beach with the landing craft they were provided. (0:33:30) When his boat landed, the water was between his waist and chest. He switched from an LCI landing boat to a Landing Craft in the middle of the English Channel. (0:34:01) His orders were to get to the top of the hill once he hit the beach. He remembers the water being pink from all of the blood when he hit the beach, and the beach being full of bodies. (0:37:00) When his unit hit the beach around noon, the Germans had been pushed off of the hill, so the only thing they had to deal with was mortar fire. His boat landed around 40 yards from shore, and the hill was around 50 yards up shore. The beach was taking heavy artillery fire when he landed. (0:41:48) He dug a foxhole when he got to the top of the hill. His unit spent the first night firing on the Germans from the position at the top of the hill. (0:43:27) They stayed on the beach for 2 nights, and then began moving from hedgerow to hedgerow. They had no artillery or air support during this time, and it took 6 days for tanks to get to their position. (0:47:30) On one occasion, an American tank with a blade on the front for clearing hedgerows came upon them from behind and began firing on them, killing 3 of the 5 men in his group. He was shot in the hip during this incident. (0:52:30) He was taken to the beach and shipped to Southampton, England and then to a hospital where he had an X-ray done on his hip where he learned that he had that he had a flesh wound and a severed tendon in his leg. He remained in the hospital for 5 weeks, but was able to walk after 10 days. (0:57:20) Once he was released from the hospital he was sent to St. Lo in France where his outfit was located at the time. He then rode across France on a tank, going through Paris, and then on to the Netherlands and Belgium before finally ending up on the outskirts of Aachen, Germany. (1:00:23) His unit was assigned to head through the middle of Aachen, which the US Army had surrounded. They had many Germans surrender to them on the way through the city. He also remembers thinking to himself that the Germans were just like him. (1:05:30) They cleared every house they passed in the city, always moving closer to the center. They encountered spotty resistance as they moved through the city. Many of the German soldiers they encountered were very young. �• • • • • • • • • (1:08:01) They took 5 weeks to clear the Aachen, and they took some casualties. (1:12:28) His unit was eventually pulled out of Aachen and towards the Hurtgen Forest. (1:13:59) His first objective in the Hurtgen Forest was to build a covered foxhole to protect himself from German artillery fire which would explode in the trees, causing a lot of shrapnel. They were paired in their foxhole. They then had to build a second, open foxhole from which they would do watches. At one point, he captured several Germans who had been near his foxhole on a patrol. He was recommended for a Silver Star for his action, but he never received his star. (1:21:35) He was not doing any movement at this point. He was holding his position in the foxholes. (1:23:18) At one point, he got out of his foxhole and could not walk very well. He was taken off of the front line and sent to Belgium, and then on to England where he was diagnosed with trench foot. He was taken to a hospital where the accommodations consisted of Quonset huts. His Quonset hut contained mostly trench foot patients. They were unable to provide him a cure, only a number of treatments that were minimally effective. (1:26:26) He was then given the news that he was being shipped back to the United States. He was placed on a luxury liner and arrived in the US where he took a train from New York to Colorado Springs, Colorado where he was placed in rehabilitation. (1:35:00) While he was in Colorado, he volunteered to tour around Wyoming with the American Legion promoting tire and rubbish collection for the war effort. (1:37:19) He was then sent back to Colorado Springs he was honorably discharged in July. Post-War (1:38:05) • • • He took the train back to Kalamazoo, Michigan where he attended Western Michigan College. He also played basketball there. Worked in the shoe business in Kalamazoo for his whole life. In 1961, he went to the doctor complaining of leg pain. After an X-Ray, it was discovered that the bullet from being shot in the hip was lodged in his leg. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanDisM Title A name given to the resource Van Dis, Melvin (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Dis, Melvin Description An account of the resource Melvin Van Dis was born in Kalamazoo, Michigan and served in the Army during World War II. Van Dis was drafted into the Army in 1943, and was sent to Europe as a replacement for killed or injured troops. He was attached to the 1st Division, which had lost a number of men during their previous campaigns. He landed in Normandy on D-Day as part of the second wave to hit the beaches. He was injured in Normandy in a friendly fire incident. He recovered and was sent back to his unit, serving with them across France and into Aachen, only to succumb to trench foot in the Hurtgen Forest. He finished his tour of duty working for the American Legion back in the United States. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-07-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c375ca882fe0dc859f4670f6fd2d4749.mp4 e5d3e77cd2f6a71fc438d6570546427c https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dcf470cc03c42adc77ab37fdcbe8f437.pdf dda019c03283d9940a10a398869f3ec0 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Michael Van Dreumel Vietnam War Interview Length: (01:19:26:00) Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:18:00) · Van Dreumel was born on June 19th, 1943 in Grand Rapids, Michigan and he grew up in the city (00:00:18:00) o Van Dreumel attended Grand Rapids Catholic Central and graduated from there in 1961 (00:00:46:00) o While Van Dreumel was growing up, his father worked at several different jobs, including being a foreman at a General Motors factory in Grand Rapids during the Korean War, owning his own gas station and his own grocery store (00:00:56:00) · When Van Dreumel finished high school, he did not want to stay in Grand Rapids because that meant either getting a job in the auto industry or in one of the other manufacturing planets in the city (00:01:37:00) o Growing up, Van Dreumel always had an interest in aviation and at one point, he saw an ad in a magazine for Northrop, a college in Los Angeles that offered a program for aircraft mechanics (00:01:50:00) o Van Dreumel thought the program sounded interesting, so he enrolled at the college and left Grand Rapids in November 1961 (00:02:05:00) § The experience at the college was entirely new to Van Dreumel; he was in a class of thirty students and out of the thirty, only two, Van Dreumel and someone else, did not have military experience (00:02:23:00) § The instructors would be talking about mechanical pieces and Van Dreumel had not idea what they were talking about; he had gone to a parochial school, which meant he did not have a shop class (00:02:34:00) § For a while, it was a hindrance and it slowly depressed Van Dreumel, whose grades were mediocre (00:02:47:00) o Eventually, Van Dreumel decided to quit the program and return home to Michigan to attend Western Michigan University. However, when he called his mother to inform her of his decision, she implored him to stay in the program for another thirty days (00:02:56:00) § Van Dreumel followed his mother’s suggestion and things started changing and getting better, to the point Van Dreumel was able to finish the program, take his FAA test, and get his license (00:03:02:00) § However, once Van Dreumel got his license, he was told his chances of getting a job with a major airline were slim because he was young, did not have any experience and still had to face the draft (00:03:15:00) o After finishing the program, Van Dreumel remembers going to Rocketdyne, which was part of the larger North American Aviation, to fill out an application and he was sitting in the office when the secretary said they could have an interview for him that afternoon (00:03:28:00) § However, Van Dreumel did not want to work with rockets but with �airplanes, so he walked out, returned to Northrop and talked with the school president, who then called TWA; although TWA did not have any openings for mechanic, there was an opening in fleet service, which was cleaning the aircraft, and Van Dreumel took it (00:03:44:00) § Van Dreumel went out to TWA, was hired in and within ten months, was doing maintenance on aircraft (00:04:04:00) · Van Dreumel received his draft notice in fall 1964 (00:04:43:00) o By that time, Van Dreumel had transferred from California to Chicago and had another bid in to transfer from Chicago to Indianapolis; when the transfer was approved and Van Dreumel called his mother to tell her, she said she did not think Van Dreumel would be going because she had a letter from the government for him in Michigan (00:04:51:00) § The draft notice was the first contact Van Dreumel had had of any kind with the draft system (00:05:35:00) o After he got the letter, Van Dreumel moved from Chicago back to Grand Rapids and had a couple of days in Grand Rapids to organize everything before he got on a bus to Fort Wayne in Detroit (00:05:47:00) § Van Dreumel spent a day and a night at Fort Wayne and was sworn in with the other new recruits before everyone was driven down to Fort Knox, Kentucky (00:06:04:00) o Prior to him actually receiving his draft notice, the military had been trying to locate Van Dreumel for some time but their records showed him still living in California, because that was where he had done his physical (00:07:04:00) · If Van Dreumel had been eighteen when he arrived at Fort Knox, he believes that he would have been more afraid; however, he was twenty-two and had the advice of an exMarine to follow, “do what they tell you, don’t say anything, and you won’t have any trouble” (00:07:30:00) o Being older, Van Dreumel viewed the whole situation as kind of cool (00:07:51:00) o After Van Dreumel and the other recruits arrived at the fort, they took a series of different tests; During the tests, Van Dreumel remembers talking with a soldier who asked what Van Dreumel did in civilian life and if Van Dreumel knew about certain things (00:08:04:00) § The fact Van Dreumel already had a significant amount of training from his civilian life was probably the reason why, after he finished his basic training, he did not have to go through advanced training (00:08:32:00) o The basic training at Fort Knox lasted eight weeks (00:08:46:00) § During the eight weeks, Van Dreumel lived in the newer, cement-block barracks, in which he and another recruit from Detroit had an entire room to themselves (00:08:55:00) § Whenever the instructors learned a recruit’s name, then the recruit was in trouble; as long as the recruits did what the instructors told them, then there was not a problem (00:09:21:00) · Van Dreumel followed the advice, tried to keep a low profile, and everything went smoothly for him (00:09:27:00) § From Van Dreumel’s recollection, the instructors did not overdo the �emphasis on discipline (00:09:55:00) · Every day, before the recruits were able to eat breakfast, they had to run around the training company area then go through a series of monkey bars (00:09:58:00) § Van Dreumel thought the physical aspects of the basic training were great (00:10:22:00) · Van Dreumel remembers that the first time he had to do the mile run, he was huffing and puffing but by the end of the training, he did much better (00:10:27:00) o On the day the recruits graduated from basic training, the orders for where everyone was going were posted on a sign board (00:10:58:00) § Van Dreumel remembers looking on the board and seeing that he had orders for cook school, which did not seem right to him; Van Dreumel talked with the sergeant in-charge of handing out the orders and as it turned out, the orders for cook school had been a typo (00:11:04:00) · Instead of going to cook’s school, Van Dreumel was sent to Fort Benning, Georgia; after a two-week leave, he arrived at the base in late March / early April (00:11:48:00) o The aviation section was located way out on the backside of Fort Benning; in particular, Van Dreumel was assigned to a helicopter unit and although he did not care for helicopters, it was still aviation (00:12:10:00) o Most of the other men in the unit had several years of experience and most had gone through military aviation training, as opposed to the civilian aviation training that Van Dreumel had gone through (00:12:44:00) § However, as Van Dreumel would later find out, the commercial aviation companies did not much care for the military aviation training; during his training in California, Van Dreumel remembers the instructor saying he would train Van Dreumel the way they wanted him to be (00:12:53:00) § The other men in the unit looked at Van Dreumel differently and questioned where he was able to get his mechanic's license at such a young age (00:13:21:00) · The other men had formed a strong bond and Van Dreumel was clearly placed on the outside looking in (00:13:30:00) o Van Dreumel eventually became friends with another man in the unit and when the other man asked if Van Dreumel did not want to work with helicopters, Van Dreumel said he did not and would have preferred working with fixed-wing aircraft (00:13:38:00) § The other man suggested Van Dreumel apply for a school, so the two men looked through the various schools available, and eventually picked Instrument Repair School (00:13:53:00) § Van Dreumel applied for the school, put in the paperwork, and was eventually summoned to the office of the Executive Officer (XO) for the unit (00:14:01:00) · The XO questioned Van Dreumel on his experience and when Van Dreumel explained he had worked for Trans-World Airlines, the XO asked why he was applying for a school (00:14:09:00) · When Van Dreumel said he had been told it was the only way to �work with fixed-wing aircraft, the XO asked if Van Dreumel wanted to get into fixed-wing and then proceeded to transfer him to a fixed-wing unit operating Mohawks (00:14:30:00) o Van Dreumel’s new unit did aerial surveillance using six OV-1 Mohawks, a twin turboprop aircraft built by Grumman (00:15:03:00) § Three of the Mohawks used SLAR (Side-Looking Airborne Radar) and the other three used infra-red (00:15:17:00) § The crew on each aircraft consisted of one pilot and one camera operator and after each flight, the film would be taken off the aircraft and developed in the unit’s own transportable development lab (00:15:31:00) § Regardless of the unit, there were always men who had seniority or timein-grade and the new guy, such as Van Dreumel at the beginning, was always on the periphery (00:16:19:00) · Van Dreumel was with the Mohawk unit for around month, month-and-a-half before the unit received orders to deploy to Vietnam (00:16:33:00) o The helicopter unit Van Dreumel joined when he first got to Fort Benning was a helicopter transport unit and was part of the 11th Air Assault Division; however, when the 1st Cavalry Division returned to Fort Benning from Korea, all the units in the 11th Air Assault transferred to the 1st Cavalry and the 11th Air Assault was inactivated (00:17:01:00) o It was maybe a week or two after the transfer from the 11th Air Assault to the 1st Cav. that the division received orders to deploy to Vietnam (00:17:49:00) § On the day of the announcement, all the men went to the unit’s day room and watched on the television as President Johnson announced he had ordered the 1st Cavalry Division to Vietnam (00:17:53:00) § Before the official announcement, there had been rumors and indications that the men would be deploying, especially given the various tests the 11th Air Assault had been doing previously (00:18:12:00) o By the time the 1st Cav. deployed to Vietnam, there already American forces in Vietnam, in the form of Marines and elements from various airborne units, including a brigade from the 101st Airborne Division (00:18:41:00) § When Van Dreumel’s unit arrived in Vietnam, he remembers that it had been soldiers from the 101st Airborne who cleared out the area where the unit was going to be stationed (00:18:45:00) · When the unit began the process of deploying from Fort Benning, they left the base early in the morning aboard buses and headed for Charleston, South Carolina (00:19:25:00) o Once in Charleston, the men boarded a transport ship in the afternoon, the General Alexander Patch, and that evening, the ship departed (00:19:39:00) § It was warm, being mid-August, and most of the men ended up sleeping on the deck of the ship at night; however, every so often, someone would clean the ship’s smokestacks and the soldiers sleeping on deck would wake up covered in a fine layer of soot (00:20:01:00) o The ship sailed through the Panama Canal, followed the coast of Mexico and eventually docked in Long Beach, California (00:20:19:00) o The ship spent a day in Long Beach to pick up additional troops and supplies then continued non-stop to Qui Nhon (00:20:28:00) �§ § § When the ship was about in the mid-Pacific, it ran into a storm (00:20:44:00) · During the voyage, Van Dreumel had volunteered for the duty of bringing up stores for the mess hall and throwing the excess over the back of the ship; during the storm, the ship would pitch so much that the propeller would come out of the water and slap the water (00:20:54:00) · Although a lot of men got seasick, Van Dreumel only got queasy, not fully seasick (00:21:56:00) Van Dreumel figures there was about two thousand men aboard the ship for the voyage from California to Vietnam (00:22:21:00) · The aircraft Van Dreumel’s unit and the other units in the division used were carried to Vietnam aboard the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Boxer and another aircraft carrier (00:22:31:00) The ship arrived fairly early in the morning in Qui Nhon, with the men starting to disembark around six o’clock in the morning (00:23:04:00) · Smaller landing craft were parked next to the ship and the men had to climb down smaller ladders to reach them; at the bottom of the ladders, the men had to time the roll of the landing craft and jump down when the landing craft was at its highest point (00:23:10:00) · As he waited for the rest of the landing craft to fill up and as the landing craft approached Qui Nhon, Van Dreumel could not believe how green and beautiful the land was (00:23:46:00) Vietnam Deployment (00:24:07:00) · Once the men were on shore, they were marched to CH-46 Chinook helicopters and flew about thirty miles inland, to An Khe (00:24:07:00) o Each of the units in the division was assigned an area and in Van Dreumel’s unit’s area, all the men had to put up their tents in a row (00:24:22:00) o Van Dreumel’s unit spent about two weeks in An Khe, going through various pieces of training (00:24:37:00) § At one point, the men noticed holes in the ground about the size of their pinky finger and after someone would pour gasoline into the holes, massive spiders would come out (00:24:49:00) § The first night the unit was in An Khe, another one of the soldiers was bitten by a snake in his tent (00:25:07:00) § During the first two weeks, the men worked at clearing out the area they had been stationed, cleaning up brush; however, even though they were cleaning up their area, Van Dreumel’s unit had yet to be assigned their permanent position at a nearby airfield (00:25:27:00) · Van Dreumel remembers watching as some ordnance personnel used explosives to clear away some trees (00:25:47:00) § The air temperature was warm, but not to the point that it made the men’s lives miserable (00:26:02:00) § At one point, Van Dreumel remembers the men going to the airstrip and during the trip, the trucks passed a Vietnamese person who was riding a �bike and dragging a dead dog behind him tied to a rope (00:26:52:00) · The initial stage of the deployment, where the men were sleeping in tents and clear away brush lasted for about a month before their unit moved to its permanent home at the airstrip (00:27:31:00) o During that first month, the men ate nothing but C-Rations; once they arrived at the airstrip, they transferred to B-Rations, which were pretty good (00:27:35:00) § With B-Rations, all the food was prepared by a mess hall cook but still served to the men in cans; it was another month or so before the regular mess hall was set up (00:27:44:00) o Van Dreumel’s unit was positioned along the southern edge of the airstrip and all the men were sleeping in large tents, which ended up dry-rotting within six months (00:27:59:00) § In Van Dreumel’s tent and several other tents, the men bought lumber and built elevated platforms several inches off the ground so they could keep their equipment off the ground (00:28:26:00) § Apart from having to sleep in mosquito nets every night, the men also, on occasion, had rats in their tents (00:28:44:00) · One night, Van Dreumel was sleeping when he felt something come up the side of his leg, sit on the side of his hip, then go back down his leg (00:28:49:00) · The men ended up having to set up massive rat traps throughout the tent, using cans of peanut butter taken from the mess tent as bait (00:29:03:00) o When the unit moved to its position at the airstrip, all their airplanes had already come in (00:30:01:00) § Apart from the Mohawks, Van Dreumel’s unit had another unit attached to it that used O-1 Birddogs, which was a small, high-winged airplane used by forward air controllers (00:30:05:00) · The Birddog unit only had a couple of mechanics and a handful of pilots, who, like most of the pilots in Van Dreumel’s unit, were warrant officers (00:30:20:00) § For the most part, Van Dreumel thought that the pilots who were flying the airplanes were older than the rest of men in the unit (00:31:14:00) · The warrant officers tended to talk with the men more than a company-grade officer would (00:31:31:00) § Officially, Van Dreumel was a member of the ASTA (Aerial Surveillance and Target Acquisition) Platoon of 11th General Support Aviation Company (00:32:25:00) · The amount of soldiers in the ASTA platoon only number about twenty and for the most part, Van Dreumel spent most of his time with that small group (00:32:46:00) o As far as the mechanical aspect of his assignment, Van Dreumel was busy the moment the unit’s airplanes arrived (00:33:18:00) § The runway at the airstrip was made out of perforated steel plates and the multiple C-130s that flew to the airstrip on a daily basis pounded those plates, often breaking them; at night, welders had to go out an repair any �· · · · damage because the jagged edges would flatten tires (00:33:26:00) · As well, the Mohawks would get flat tires, so one of the big jobs that Van Dreumel had to do was change flat tires (00:33:53:00) § Although the men were not working to the point that they were constantly breaking a sweat, the work was steady (00:34:15:00) o The number of times a specific Mohawk would go out on any given day depended largely on what type the airplane was (00:34:33:00) § None of the Mohawks in the unit carried offensive weapons; some of the other units operating in Vietnam had Mohawks with gun pods mounted on the airplanes but Van Dreumel’s unit was not authorized to use the gun pods (00:34:39:00) § If he had to guess, Van Dreumel would figure that airplanes from the unit were going out on a mission three or four times a day (00:34:54:00) Van Dreumel and the other men in the unit never heard the actual words “Ia Drang Valley”; all they knew was there was a big increase in traffic and airplanes were coming and going at an increased rate (00:35:15:00) o For the most part, the 1st Cav. always had some sort of operation going somewhere (00:35:28:00) One time, Van Dreumel picked up an infantry soldier from the 1st Cav. who was hitchhiking back to the rear area (00:35:37:00) o Van Dreumel asked where the soldier had been stationed and after the soldier said some place that Van Dreumel had never heard of, the soldier then complained about how the helicopter pilots refused to fly into an area to pick up the wounded because of the amount of enemy gunfire (00:35:46:00) o Ultimately, Van Dreumel is glad he did not have to serve in the infantry and he admires the men who did have to serve in the infantry (00:36:16:00) Several of the Mohawks in Van Dreumel’s unit ended up getting hit by enemy fire and taking damage (00:36:36:00) o Van Dreumel took numerous pictures while in Vietnam and a good portion of those pictures was battle damage to the airplanes (00:36:39:00) o One of the jobs the men constantly had to do was repair any damage on the airplanes as a result of gunfire (00:36:57:00) o However, none of the Mohawks were ever shot down from the enemy fire; the unit arrived in Vietnam with six airplanes and when Van Dreumel left, there were still six airplanes (00:37:04:00) For the most part, Van Dreumel did not have a set daily schedule to follow; just like when he worked with the airlines, every day brought a different series of jobs from him to work on (00:37:19:00) o Each day, Van Dreumel and the other mechanics would have to look at the log books from the different flights to see what problems or possible problems the pilots might have written down (00:37:28:00) o Because he had experience working with the airlines, Van Dreumel was given the job of changing any flat tires; on several occasions, Van Dreumel would replace a tire, the airplane would go on one mission and he would have to change the tire again because it had been ripped to shreds (00:37:42:00) �o Apart from working on the airplanes, Van Dreumel and the other men in the unit had to do their own guard duty and KP (Kitchen Patrol); the area was considered “insecure”, which meant Vietnamese civilians were not allowed into the area to do laundry or anything like that, so the men had to do that work too (00:38:12:00) § At one point, an officer asked Van Dreumel if he would like to be exempt from duties for awhile; Van Dreumel said he did and the officer explained that they needed someone to run a five-strand barbed-wire fence around the entire perimeter of the airstrip (00:38:31:00) · Van Dreumel accepted the job and was assigned one strand of wire and a team of four Vietnamese workers (00:38:42:00) · The first thing Van Druemel’s team did was work with a surveyor to lay out the stakes for the perimeter, which took a couple of weeks to do (00:38:53:00) o Next, the team began stringing the barbed-wire around the entire perimeter (00:39:01:00) · Every so often, the Vietnamese working under Van Dreumel would walk up to Van Dreumel, look at his wristwatch, and ask for a break (00:39:08:00) o Although he did not smoke, every day Van Dreumel would stop at the PX on the airstrip and buy a pack of cigarettes; then, during the breaks, he would give the cigarettes to his workers, who loved American cigarettes (00:39:21:00) o Of the four Vietnamese who worked for Van Dreumel, two were father and son (00:39:53:00) § The types of guard duty the men had to do often varied; sometimes, Van Dreumel had to patrol around the area where the officers were located and on occasion, he would see nurses “visit” the officers (00:40:28:00) · The airstrip was located next to the Song Ba river and one of the areas the men had to watch was next to the river (00:40:51:00) · Doing the patrols at night without a flashlight was often spooky, especially considered who could have been out there (00:41:04:00) § Most of the officers in the unit were good but occasionally, some of the other men would goof around (00:41:35:00) · For the most part, the men on guard duty were not supposed to be walking around with loaded weapons; however, most of the men disregarded the order because they did not want to be caught in a situation without a loaded weapon (00:41:51:00) · One time, Van Dreumel remembers another soldier saying how, while on guard duty, the soldier encountered an officer who would not identify himself, so the soldier put the officer through the entire process of being “arrested” (00:42:13:00) o However, the guards were sometimes leery of confronting an officer, out of fear of any retribution that might come from the officer (00:42:47:00) · One time, a pair of C-130s were flown onto the airstrip and the crews parked the airplanes next to one another on the ramp (00:43:01:00) �o About two o’clock in the morning, the men had to go on alert because the enemy had attacked the C-130s; either the VC or a VC sympathizer in the nearby village had snuck onto the airstrip and placed satchel charges along the landing gear of one of the C-130s (00:43:10:00) § Apart from destroying the landing gear, the saboteur also placed satchel charges inside the access door on the nose of the C-130, which blew big holes through the fuselage (00:43:31:00) § With the other C-130, all the saboteur did was fire a couple of rounds into the airplane’s engines (00:43:42:00) o The attack on the C-130s was the last time the Air Force ever left airplanes on the airstrip overnight (00:43:48:00) o Apart from the enemy sabotage of the C-130s, the airstrip also came under mortar attack several times and each time, the men ended up having to spend the night in foxholes along the perimeter (00:43:55:00) § Once in the foxholes, the men had to watch the perimeter; illumination flares were launched and although the men might think they saw something, for the most part, it was only their minds playing tricks on them (00:44:03:00) o Apart from the attack on the two C-130s, there were several other occasions where enemy sappers made it onto the airstrip (00:44:23:00) § However, there was an infantry unit stationed next to Van Dreumel’s unit on the airstrip with the specific assignment of protecting Van Dreumel’s unit; for the most part, the infantry unit was successful in protecting Van Dreumel’s unit from any sapper attacks (00:44:33:00) · One night, Van Dreumel was in a elevated foxhole along the river and he remembers that as the flares were dropped, looking down a ravine leading towards the river and seeing what looked like a thousand Viet Cong coming up the ravine; however, it was only a trick of the light from the leaves (00:45:29:00) · When the monsoons began, they cut down on the ability of the unit to perform their jobs; Van Dreumel has pictures of all the airplanes sitting in a line and the mud around them is six inches deep (00:46:26:00) o The mud got on everything, was hard to work in, and if something was stuck, it was difficult to get it out (00:46:41:00) o Van Dreumel was not used to the monsoons and the nearly constant rain that came with them (00:46:51:00) § Often, the rain would let up during the day but at almost the same time every day, it would start again; it would be beautiful mornings but by the afternoon, it would be raining (00:46:57:00) · At one point, Van Dreumel ended up spraining his ankle when he and some of the men were moving boxes in the maintenance area; as they were moving the boxes, what looked like a sea of rats came scurrying out (00:47:24:00) o Van Dreumel hopped on a bunker and he and the other soldiers began throwing rocks at the rats (00:47:41:00) § When he jumped off the bunker, Van Dreumel rolled his ankle and ended up needed to get a cast for it (00:47:48:00) o Another time, Van Dreumel was climbing into a truck when he slipped and �smashed he shin against the truck; he thought nothing of it but a couple of days later, the area was still red, so Van Dreumel went to the hospital (00:47:54:00) § Once Van Dreumel was at the hospital, a doctor looked at his leg an asked if Van Dreumel wanted to lose the leg; getting an infection over there was nothing like getting an infection back in the United States (00:48:13:00) § The doctor placed Van Dreumel in a MASH (Mobile Army Surgical Hospital), where he had to go through a round of eight shots over the course of three days, which cleared the infection up (00:48:27:00) · During the course of his tour, Van Dreumel got big into photography; he bought one 35mm camera, then another, and began hanging around with two of the other soldiers in the unit who were amateur photographers (00:48:53:00) o Whenever he took pictures, Van Dreumel had the pictures developed into slides because he felt the colors were better on slides than on regular film (00:49:18:00) § Once he would get the slides back, Van Dreumel would send the good ones back to his parents in Grand Rapids (00:49:26:00) o Apart from taking pictures, Van Dreumel also made several Super 8mm movies; for the most part, the movies tend to bring back memories fast than the pictures because you can actually see stuff moving (00:49:35:00) o Also during his tour, Van Dreumel saw Eddie Fisher, Jackie DeShannon, and Bob Hope as part of different USO shows (00:50:09:00) § When Bob Hope came in, it was completely unannounced and it was a day or two after Christmas 1965 (00:50:26:00) · Van Dreumel had just gotten off guard duty and was in his bunk sleeping when another soldier told him Bob Hope was coming; although he was tired, Van Dreumel still got up, put on his uniform, grabbed his camera, and went to the show (00:50:36:00) · Apart from himself, Hope also brought Anita Bryant, Les Brown and his Big Band, Miss USA, and Joey Heatherton (00:50:56:00) · Once, during an in-country R&R, Van Dreumel went to Vung Tau, a city located on the South China Sea (00:51:35:00) o Van Dreumel remembers taking a picture of his hotel, a nice-looking white building, completely surrounded by concertina wire (00:51:46:00) o During the three days he was in Vung Tau, Van Dreumel mostly just walked around and took pictures; for the most part, it was not much different than were he was stationed in An Khe (00:52:01:00) o Right after Van Dreumel got back to An Khe, a spot opened up to take an R&R to Hong Kong but Van Dreumel could not go because he did not have any money following his time in Vung Tau (00:52:10:00) · During the length of Van Dreumel’s tour, the 1st Cav. kept having large operations and for the most part, Van Dreumel did not know where the bulk of the infantry forces were operating (00:52:50:00) o From what he does remember, a lot of the operations took place in the Pleiku area and to the north and east of the airstrip at An Khe (00:53:26:00) o When the Tet Offensive happened in 1968, Van Dreumel could not believe it; when he left Vietnam in 1967, he thought that it would a snap for the Americans to beat the NVA and Viet Cong (00:54:02:00) �· For the most part, the moral of the soldiers serving with Van Dreumel was good; to Van Dreumel, it always seemed like the soldiers had a handle on the situation (00:54:15:00) o In Van Dreumel’s unit, there was one young black soldier who Van Dreumel often sympathized with, because the soldier was a book-worm type and would get picked on by some of the other soldiers (00:54:42:00) § However, Van Dreumel cannot even remember what the soldier’s job was; it was not uncommon to be around a bunch of soldiers and not remember what some of their jobs were (00:55:17:00) o For the most part, the soldiers in Van Dreumel’s unit were white (00:55:49:00) · At one point, the 1st Cav.’s commander visited the airstrip to attend the dedication of a building that Van Dreumel’s unit had built that served as both the unit’s movie theater and church; during the dedication ceremony, Van Dreumel managed to take a picture of the general (00:56:22:00) · Over the course of the year Van Dreumel was in Vietnam, soldiers were rotating both in and out of the country (00:57:11:00) o For the most part, very few of the soldiers who Van Dreumel deployed with ended up coming home before him; the soldiers who did rotate home were in the infantry units of the division (00:57:19:00) o Within Van Dreumel’s unit, the rotation of the soldiers was not noticeable; he can only remember a handful of new soldiers coming into the unit and even then, it was towards the end of his tour (00:57:41:00) End of Enlistment / Post-Military Life / Reflections (00:58:18:00) · Once the majority of the soldiers in the unit reached the end of their tours, different men began receiving orders to rotate home (00:58:18:00) o None of the men knew when exactly they would rotate home and then one day, someone told Van Dreumel that his rotate orders had arrived; Van Dreumel was given the orders on a piece of paper, which detailed the date and time he would be leaving (00:58:25:00) o On given day, Van Dreumel woke up, already had all his gear packed, walked across the airstrip, and boarded a CV-2 Caribou, which flew him over to nearby Pleiku, where he spent one night (00:58:47:00) § After spending the night in Pleiku, Van Dreumel and the other soldiers who were rotating home boarded a C-141 Starlifter that had flown in from Manila (00:59:01:00) § From Pleiku, the C-141 flew to Clark Air Force Base in the Philippines to re-fuel, then flew to Yokota, Japan (00:59:12:00) · The C-141 arrived at Yokota early in the morning and all the men disembarked and walked into a small mess area, where Van Dreumel ate his first hamburger in a year (00:59:32:00) § Around 4:30 in the morning, all the men re-boarded the C-141, which then flew non-stop across the Pacific Ocean to Travis Air Force Base in California (00:59:43:00) § At the time, there was a major airline strike going on, with all five of the major airliners going on strike, including the airline that Van Dreumel had worked for prior to being drafted (01:00:04:00) �· Van Dreumel never saw soldiers smoking marijuana (01:00:48:00) · Van Dreumel and the other soldiers were allowed to go into An Khe, but they chose to only go during the daylight (01:00:56:00) o The local Vietnamese would chew betel nut, which had slight narcotic side affects that would dull pain (01:01:09:00) o Apart from buy a metal wash bin to shave in, there was not much Van Dreumel actually did in the village (01:01:34:00) o Some of the other soldiers went into An Khe for “less healthy things” but the division tried to control and regulate it (01:02:01:00) § As a result of the soldiers interacting with the locals, the value of the military scrip would fluctuate to the point that every so often, the color of the scrip would be changed, with brought everything back down, if only momentarily (01:02:24:00) · When Van Dreumel and the other soldiers first got to the airstrip and were cleaning the area, they put all the waste into a large brush pile (01:03:03:00) o Eventually, someone started to burn the pile but as it turned out, there was an unexploded mortar round inside the pile (01:03:11:00) o Van Dreumel was about fifty to seventy-five feet away from the pile when the round went off and shrapnel from the explosion hit one of the camera operators who worked aboard one of the Mohawks (01:03:18:00) § The camera operator needed to be evacuated and returned to the unit about three or four weeks later (01:03:32:00) o Every once in awhile, the men would find unexploded mortar rounds stuck in the ground (01:03:44:00) § Whenever they found an unexploded round, the men would notify a sergeant, who would then call in an ordinance disposal unit to take care of the round (01:03:49:00) · One of the men in the unit was exempt from every other duty because every day, he had to burn the human waste from the unit (01:04:47:00) o Every day, the soldier would pull out the two halves of 55 gallon drums, pour diesel fuel in the drums, light the halves on fire, and then stick in two empty halves (01:04:56:00) o About a month after the unit arrived, a bout of diarrhea went through the unit; it was so bad that eventually, a box of toilet paper was placed out and a soldier would just grab a roll and go wherever he could (01:05:16:00) · The soldiers had to take two different medical pills daily, an orange, quinine pill for malaria and a small white pill because there was a leper colony upriver from where the airstrip was located (01:05:57:00) o Van Dreumel remembers going into the mess hall and there being an officer sitting there with a clipboard, who would watch the soldiers take the pills; the soldiers could not get past without taking the pills (01:06:22:00) o Van Dreumel was of the mindset that the Army knew what they were doing, so he took the pills without question; some of the other soldiers were more resistant and refused to take the pills (01:06:44:00) · Van Dreumel did not know most of the men who were on the flight from Vietnam back to �the United States; not one guy from his unit was actually on the same flight at Van Dreumel (01:07:04:00) o While waiting for the C-141 in Pleiku, the men could not understand why the airplane was so late to arrive; eventually, they were told that the air crew had had trouble closing the clam-shell doors at the back of the airplane (01:07:27:00) § Van Dreumel, who had a little experience, knew that was not something that they wanted to come open during the flight, so he was a little bit apprehensive (01:05:44:00) § However, it turned out to be a nice, uneventful flight back to the United States (01:08:18:00) · Once Van Dreumel got back to the United States, he still had five months remaining on his enlistment, so after spending a month in Grand Rapids on leave, he was assigned to the 5th Mechanized Infantry Division at Fort Carson, Colorado (01:08:26:00) o When he arrived at the unit, one of Van Dreumel’s first assignments was working with another, newly-arrived mechanic in replacing the transmission for an OH-13 Sioux (01:08:49:00) o The very first thing Van Dreumel did once he arrived at Fort Carson was to go out on a field problem; he countered that he had just spent eleven months working on “field problems” (01:09:26:00) o Van Dreumel remembers that the last time he pulled guard duty, it was on Christmas Eve at a motor pool in the middle of nowhere and it was extremely cold outside (01:09:46:00) o As it reached the end of Van Dreumel’s enlistment, the Army tried to get him to re-enlist; at one point, one of the sergeants commented about how good a health program the Army had and Van Dreumel said that he had just as good a health plan with the airlines (01:10:25:00) o One of the best things Van Dreumel ever experienced was at Fort Carson when the men had to go through a foot and wall locker inspection on a Saturday morning (01:10:59:00) § All the men were standing at attention in front of the bunks when a fullbird colonel walked into the room and walked right up and stood in front of Van Dreumel (01:11:07:00) § The colonel asked if Van Dreumel would be going home for Christmas and Van Dreumel said he was not because he was being discharged the first week in January (01:11:24:00) § The colonel shook Van Druemel’s hand and wished him the best of luck before walking away; after the colonel walked away, a First Sergeant walked up and said “money isn’t everything” (01:11:47:00) · After he was discharged, Van Dreumel returned to TWA, who assigned him to work at O’Hare airport in Chicago; Van Dreumel loved it because he was working and earning money at the same time (01:12:11:00) o Van Dreumel remembers that when he first went back to Chicago, it was the first week of February and there had been a snow storm, so on his way form Grand Rapids to Chicago, he pulled out to pass another car on the highway but when he tried to get back into the other lane, the car would not follow (01:12:41:00) § Van Dreumel’s car ended up sliding off the road and into a huge snow �drift along the side (01:13:05:00) § Van Dreumel eventually made it out of the car on the passenger side and it just so happened that a tow truck was coming along; the driver asked if Van Dreumel wanted to get pulled out but when Van Dreumel said he had very little money, the driver thought about it for a moment before telling Van Dreumel to stick the chain around the axle (01:13:13:00) o Since he has retired from working, Van Dreumel has missed being able to talk about aviation with others (01:13:42:00) o Van Dreumel made a career out of working in the airlines, eventually working in not only Chicago, but also Los Angeles, Detroit, and Indianapolis, which was his favorite out of all of the places (01:14:04:00) · Once he was back home, Van Dreumel did talk a little bit about his time in the service; if anyone was interested, he would talk with them (01:14:54:00) o It took quite awhile for Van Dreumel to re-establish contact with his friends from before the service, mostly because the friends all lived in different parts of the country and were living their own lives (01:15:03:00) o In particular, Van Dreumel talked with his father about his time in the service; out of everyone, Van Dreumel’s father was the only person who wrote to Van Dreumel every week (01:15:16:00) § In Van Dreumel’s bunk area, he had a board filled with pictures of airplanes; at one point, Van Dreumel took a picture of the board and sent the slide to his father, who in turn sent the picture to the Boeing Corporation (01:15:45:00) · When he sent the slide to Boeing, Van Dreumel’s father also included a short letter explaining about Van Dreumel’s situation and asked if anyone would write to Van Dreumel (01:16:01:00) · As it turned out, the only people who responded were women and Van Dreumel was flooded with letters from girls (01:16:14:00) o Van Dreumel answered the letters as best he could and a couple grew into regular correspondence (01:16:25:00) · Overall, Van Dreumel learned a lot from his time in the service and although it started off shaky, Van Dreumel believes that going to school right after graduation probably saved his life; had he not gone to school, he might have ended up in the Ia Drang valley and possibly in a body bag (01:16:52:00) · What Van Dreumel cannot get over now is the tremendous amount of support the soldiers who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan receive, something that he and the other Vietnam veterans did not receive (01:18:09:00) o Van Dreumel remembers walking through the San Francisco airport after arriving at Travis Air Force Base and receiving dirty looks from people (01:18:23:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanDreumelM1377V Title A name given to the resource Van Dreumel, Michael (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Dreumel, Michael Description An account of the resource Michael Van Dreumel was born in 1943 in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and lived there until he graduated from high school in 1961. He then went to California to train as a aircraft mechanic, after which he worked at several commercial airlines before receiving his draft notice in 1964. Once he received his draft notice, Van Dreumel went through basic training at Fort Knox, Kentucky before joining an aviation section at Fort Benning, Georgia outfitted with six OV-1 Mohawks. When Van Dreumel first joined the section, it belonged to the 11th Air Assault Division but only a couple of weeks after his arrival, the section switched to the 1st Air Cavalry Division, which was then deployed to Vietnam. He spent his tour at An Khe working on Mohawks and other observation aircraft. Once Van Dreumel's tour came to an end, he rotated back to the United States and finished his enlistment as part of the 5th Mechanized Infantry Division at Fort Carson, Colorado. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-04-25 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2fe2c691d709fc59f875acf1ecc28dba.mp4 3b6cb67f8dc8d23ab49caea3fcdaeb95 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/20a8118edeb5c95d42da1f155ec11cbc.pdf a1d77f19e6ddb5a9ce8ae4033f978d35 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Rodney Van Dyck (00:23:08) (00:08) Background Information • • • • Rodney was born in Muskegon, MI on March 23, 1956 His father worked at GM They had 4 kids in the family and 8 horses His family moved a lot because his father’s job (7:19) Army • • • • • • • • • • • Rodney enlisted in the army and was there for 25 months He enlisted on June 29, 1974 and was discharged on July 26, 1976 Rodney was mostly at Fort Bragg, NC with the 82nd Airborne He was also at Fort Dix right after they redid everything Rodney was a voice radio operator and installed radios At Fort Benning he went to jump school for 5 weeks The reason he had wanted to be a paratrooper was because he was afraid of heights While he was at Fort Bragg he broke both of his ankles in a fall Before he hurt himself he jumped into Texas, Alaska, and South Carolina When he jumped into Alaska he did cold weather training Rodney had 1 brother go into the Navy and the other went into the Air Force (16:05) Discharge • • • • He was discharged because of his injuries Rodney got married on March 26, 1977 and had 3 kids He worked for a short time as a dishwasher Rodney is still disabled and lives at Grand Rapids Home for Veterans � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanDyckR Title A name given to the resource Van Dyck, Rodney (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Dyck, Rodney Description An account of the resource Rodney Van Dyck was born in Muskegon, Michigan on March 23, 1956. He enlisted in the Army on June 29, 1974 and was assigned to the 82nd Airborne. Rodney was stationed at Fort Bragg, Fort Dix, and Fort Benning. He went through jump school and was trained as a voice radio operator. Rodney jumped into Texas, Alaska and South Carolina. When he was in Alaska he had cold weather training. Rodney then fell and broke both of his ankles so he had to be discharged. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-06-30 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f1b8463bc174820ed9fef973615f9c34.mp4 b692126f27dfa8bffb8e51ee36d27d53 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d09a8d7b6a60904e8a26e6bf63e36242.pdf ff2b27d4f5a038d249b9264fef8e2474 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran: Orley Van Dyke Interview Length: (1:19:21) Interviewed by James Smither Transcribed by Chloe Dingens Interviewer: We're talking today with Mr. Orley Van Dyke of Holland, Michigan and the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Okay Orley, start us off with some background on yourself and to begin with where and when were you born? I was born on December 30, 1924 in an upstairs apartment in a house just north of the city of Holland. Interviewer: Okay so Holland, Michigan. Holland, Michigan. Interviewer: Okay and then did you grow up in Holland? (1:01) I grew up my entire life in Michigan. In fact, as I grew up, right after I was born, we moved into a house on Linwood Boulevard and I grew up there until I went into the service in 1943. Interviewer: Alright now what was your family doing for a living when you were a kid? My dad was employed at The Holland Furnace and my mother was a young girl, my mother was, when I was born was 18 and my dad was 20 and I was born in an upstairs apartment and from the time I was born till 1926, two years later we had moved/mold to a house on Linwood Beauregard. Interviewer: Right, okay now did your mother stay home or did she have a job? No, no my mother was a young girl- young woman and she was a housewife her entire life. In fact, when my mother passed away, she- she didn't even have a social security number. �Interviewer: Wow. (2:06) She never worked out of- out of the home. Interviewer: Okay now did your father have steady work through the 1930’s? Yeah in- in 1920, from 1924 to 1931 that's when the Depression hit our -family. He worked at the Holland Furnace, he had steady work, and he was high, not highly, but a good paid, good paying job, up until the plant closed on kind of the Depression. Interviewer: Okay and so what did he do after that? He continued working at the- to at The Holland Furnace until they closed I think in ‘53 or ‘54 and then he got a part-time job and he worked, drove school bus and worked at the unemployment office until he was 65 and then he retired. (3:05) Interviewer: Okay so I guess I was trying to sort out what he did during the 1930’s, so did he get less work in the ‘30’s with the…? No he kept working in The Holland Furnace. Interviewer: Okay. He was a, what they called a molder, he set up molds for furnace parts. Interviewer: Okay so- so he had a skilled job and he was able to keep that job. Yes. Interviewer: Okay alright and then where did you go to high school… When? Interviewer: Where did you go? I went to high school in Holland High School. �Interviewer: Okay. I graduated out of the 8th grade in 1938 and 1938 I started Holland High School. Interviewer: Okay alright and were you still in high school when Pearl Harbor happened? Yes, I was- I was a 16-year-old senior, starting my senior year in high school and December 7 in 1941 and I was 16 years old and I would have been 17 in three weeks. Interviewer: Okay now do you remember how you heard about Pearl Harbor? (4:12) Well I- I think it happened on a Sunday and I really don't think I heard much about it until I got to school on Monday morning and then that was all the talk about Pearl Harbor. But and then of course I wanted to join yeah, but I was- wasn’t being 18 for another year so, but. Interviewer: Okay now you- you could have enlisted when you were 17 but your parents would have to allow you to do that. Right and I know my parents wouldn’t allow, wouldn’t sign. Interviewer: Okay. So, I knew I’d had to wait ‘til I was 18. Interviewer: Okay, now did the start of the war, did that change daily life in Holland at all? Or were there things happening now… No, I don't, I know the National Guard was called about the year before. Interviewer: Right. …they left, but no things were, things did not change that I know already in- in Holland. Interviewer: Okay, did they have rationing? Well yeah rationing started I- I think that was right after Pearl Harbor when the rationing, the �sugar rationing and the gasoline rationing. I know you got stickers for your car, I think you were allowed four gallons of gas a week or something like that, yeah. Interviewer: Yeah okay, okay so it's affecting things a little bit. Now where there, did some of your classmates in high school did they go off and enlist right away or? (5:50) Not that I know of, no not, I don't believe any that I know of any classmates enlisted. They were all almost too young, they were almost the same about 17 years old but. Interviewer: Yeah, okay so they stay in, so the older guys would go? Oh- oh yeah right for sure the draft was on then, yeah sure oh yeah right, they were… Interviewer: Okay alright and so did you graduate from high school in ‘42 then? I, yes I graduated in 1942. I- I took printing for four years in high school and in April of 1942 the print teacher called me over and said they had an opening at the newspaper and so he said, “if you got the job, took the job at the newspaper I would get credit for my printing.” And so, I started working mornings at the newspaper and afternoons I went to high school until June and I graduated with my class. (6:58) Interviewer: Okay, alright now you were still, just, were you still 16 or were you 17 now? I was- I was 17 when I graduated, right. Interviewer: Right. I was 17 years old in, I graduated in June, right. Interviewer: Okay alright and then did you just keep working for the paper then? �I worked when I grad- after I graduated, I start working full-time at the paper and until I was 18, December 30 of 1942 and so right that next week, I went to Grand Rapids I was gonna enlist in the Marine Corps. Interviewer: Okay. But the Marines were no longer taking recruits they were getting their men from the draftees. Interviewer: Okay. (7:48) That signed up for the Navy and so the following week, I went to my draft board in Grand Haven and said, “put me in the February quota for the Army.” And February, I went to Kal- first part of February I went to Kal- Kalamazoo, signed up, passed my physical, and as you walked out there was an Army man and a Navy man and you told them which branch of the service you wanted. And I stopped by the Navy man and I said, “I want the Marines,” he said, “the only way you're gonna get in the Marines is if they choose you out of the Navy.” So, I said, “put me down for the Navy,” and I went and sat down and I thought to myself, with your luck you'll end up on a battleship in the middle of the ocean and I'm not a water person. I went back in and I said, “change me to the Army.” And so, I went in the end of February I went to Grand Haven and left for the service. (9:02) Interviewer: Alright now where did they send you first? When you left Grand Haven, where do you go next? We went to Chicago for dinner and got on another train and went to Camp Grant, Illinois that's just outside of Rockford. Interviewer: Now was that just for processing there? �That was, right I got there on Saturday night and we went to put us up in the barracks and there was nothing going on Sunday and Monday morning we started changing from civilians to Army. And I was there, I think it was there that we did a lot of testing I took a lot of tests and a few days later I got on a troop train and we went to Fort Sill, Oklahoma. Interviewer: Okay. (9:54) And I was assigned to a flash and sound battery and I started my basic training and I was just about finished with my basic training and a fella in the barracks came up to me and said, “I'm gonna go to the reception center at Fort Sill and apply to the Air Force.” And if you had two years of college or passed the test you could get into the Air Force and if you passed the test you would be either a pilot, navigator, or bombardier and so I went with this fellow and as he took the test and this serge, Air Force sergeant said, “why don't you take the test since you're waiting anyway.” I said, well I said “okay,” and it was a test for about, it was a multiple-choice and I think it was about a three-hour test and we finished taking the test and the Sergeant said, “I'll mark your papers.” About twenty minutes later he came back and he said Van Dyke,” he said, “you're now in the Air Force,” and he said to the other fellow, he said, “you didn't pass so you go back to the field artillery.” Interviewer: Okay now I want to back up a little bit and fill in a few pieces of this story. (11:24) Okay. Interviewer: You talked about taking a train ride from Chicago to Oklahoma. No took a, to- we took a train. Interviewer: Rockford- Rockford to. �Illinois. Interviewer: Yeah so Illinois to Oklahoma, what do you remember about that train ride? It was cold going through the mountains there in Missouri it was cold. We all had our great big army overcoats on, and it was cold and finally we got to Fort Sill Oklahoma. Interviewer: Okay and then what was basic training like? Well before the flash and sound it was a regular basic training, do the rifle range and but a flash and sound you sat in a foxhole on front of the lines, with a periscope, looking for the flash of the enemy guns. And you recorded what you saw and that went back to central where they checked it and that way with all of the flash and sound reports they knew where that flash came from and they could… (12:33) Interviewer: Okay alright so Fort Sill is mainly an artillery base. Yeah. Interviewer: And so, this is kind of an adjunct to ar- artillery. Right, right. Interviewer: Okay now you said you had standard basic training and a lot of people today don't know what that is. So how do, you what do you do in a day, typical day when you're in basic training? Well you get up early, well before- before I started- before I started my basic training I got a call to go to the general, I had to go and see a general and he said to me, he said “with your IQ,” he said, “you should be in officer's training,” but he said, “since you're only just 18 years old, we're gonna send you to a company in the field artillery, flash and sound and after you've been in the Army a while we are gonna call you for officers training.” �Interviewer: Okay. (13:30) So, the regular basic training was marching, getting on your hands and knees crawling under a barbed wire with a- with them shooting over you and it was- it was rough and there were long hikes and you never knew what time of the day you're gonna get called out of the barracks, and you had to have everything inspected, and it- it was a rough life but it was good for you. Interviewer: Alright, now how easy or hard was it for you to adjust to life in the Army? I loved it, I love the Army, yeah. Interviewer: Okay so even the discipline and all of that? With the discipline and it all, well I was grown, I grew up under discipline. My father was a disciplinarian and we had to go according to his rules and so I was used to being told what to do and what not to do. (14:27) Interviewer: Okay alright so, okay so now that kind of fills in some of that, so now we're at the point in your story where basically you've now gone into the Air Force. Okay. Interviewer: Okay, so what happens to you next? So, after that officer tells you- you know that- that sergeant whatever, he tells you you're in and now what happens? Well then, I- I went back to my company and they said, “well you're finished here, you're in the Air Force.” He said, “so what we're gonna do we're gonna let you paint the mess hall at night.” So, about six o'clock in the evening after the mess hall was closed, I went in with a couple other guys and we painted ‘till about three or four in the morning and we did that for, I would say maybe a month. �Interviewer: Wow. And then the orders came that we had to report to the Air Force recruiting office and they took, with a bus they took us to Sheppard Field, Texas and there I joined a whole company of Air Force recruits that were gonna go to college and so I laid around in Sheppard Field, Texas for about three months waiting to get called to some college and I think it was about the 1st of September of 1943 that we were sent to Kansas State College in Manhattan, Kansas. (16:01) Interviewer: Alright so how did you spend your time at Sheppard Field? What- what did you do? Nothing just marching, and we laid around most the time, we, waitin’ to go to college. Interviewer: Okay alright now why did they think you had to go to college? I don't know, that was part of the test that I took because we knew we were either gonna be a pilot, navigator, or bombardier and when you graduated from the- that school you were a second lieutenant. So, they figured we had to have three- three months of college training before we went to our… Interviewer: Do you get that before you got the- the flight training? Yeah right and then after from September ‘till just before Christmas I went to school at Kansas State College. (17:04) Interviewer: Alright. And then we shipped out to Santa Ana, California. Interviewer: Okay. For classification. �Interviewer: Okay so when you were at Kansas State did you have to take a lot of classes? Did you spend all of your time studying? Well yeah most the time, yeah, we took, we had a lot of classes I know- I know we- we tooktook quite a few different classes but we also had got ten hours of flight training and Piper Cubs. Interviewer: Okay. And that's when I found out that I had bad depth perception because after about three hours of flight training the pilot, the instructor told me that I was gonna land the plane that day. And so we came in for a landing and as I thought we were ready to touch ground I pulled back on the throttle and pulled back on the stick and the pilot, the instructor grabbed the stick and pushed the throttle forward and he said, “are you trying to kill us?” He said, “we’re 50 feet off the ground yet.” So, then I knew I had bad depth perception. (18:17) Interviewer: Alright so you went in thinking you were gonna be a pilot or they- they start you off to train all of you to be pilots? No you- you didn’t know until after college whether you are gonna be pilot, navigator, or bombardier. Interviewer: Okay alright but you were actually getting pilot instruction? Right we had ten hours of flight training while we were in- in school. Interviewer: Okay. Right. Interviewer: Alright so now they know you're- you’re gonna be a navigator or a bombardier. Bombardier, right. �Interviewer: Yeah, okay. But I- I- I went through all of the course, the test not because they didn't know that, I knew it. Interviewer: Right. And I know when I, one of the tests was they had a big long board with two sticks that you had to line up and I said to them, I said, “okay,” and the guy said, “you can do better than that.” So, II said, “that's the best I can do until,” I- I knew what, I knew I didn’t pass that one, but I passed for bombardier or navigator. (19:25) Interviewer: Right, okay alright so you get through with your three months at Kansas State and now what happens? After I was classified as bombardier, I took pre-flight with all bombardier students and I was in California from Santa Ana, California from just before Christmas until about May of 1944 with pre-flight. Interviewer: Okay. And then I got sent to Kirtland Field in Albuquerque, New Mexico to bombardier school. Interviewer: Okay so what do they do in pre-flight? It was another basic training typically but it was a little bit different in Air Force you- you didn't have to march as much or crawl in the mud or it was mostly studying and taking guns apart and going through the rifle range and- and things like that. Interviewer: Okay now did you learn anything about aeronautics or flying or weather or other things? I didn't learn that until I got in bombardier school. (20:38) �Interviewer: Okay alright so this is just sort of another more basic level of training. More of a basic, it was another basic training, right. I- I remember every Sunday the whole camp had to march and that year out of the three or four months I was there, I remember it rained seven Sundays that we didn't have anything, we didn't have to march on Sunday. It was- it was raining, and I know I had to go, one day I had to go to the dentist, and I had to walk in water upabout up to my ankles it had rained so much. It was terrible wet that- that winter in Florida- in California. (21:25) Interviewer: California, okay now did you ever get to go off the base at Santa Ana? Oh yeah, every, yeah usually we had the weekend off and we would take the electric train to Los Angeles. Interviewer: And what could you do there? Usually just going to the movies or to the burlesque show or to the bar or, but typical weekend soldiers. Interviewer: Okay now did they have facilities for you in Los Angeles, I mean you hear about things like the Hollywood Canteen and all that kind of thing? No, they didn’t, I don't know anything about that. We- we’d get a motel room with about six or seven other guys and we just got a motel room for that one night that Saturday night and I know, towards the end there when it got about one/ two o'clock in the morning there would be guys that were stationed there, they would say, “you want a ride back to the base?” So, we'd pay them, and they would take us back to Santa Ana to the- to our base. (22:41) Interviewer: Alright so you could be there for the marches… �We had, you had to be there Sunday morning or Sunday afternoon for the march, yeah right. Interviewer: Alright so now finally we're getting into the middle of 1944 now and you're finished with the pre-flight and now you go to Kirtland- Kirtland Field. Kirtland Field. Interviewer: Right. Okay. And… Interviewer: Now that's bombardier school. Went to bombardier school from I would say, I think it was 16 or 18 weeks and then if you passed, you graduated from bombardier school and you were commissioned a lieutenant or a flight officer. Interviewer: Okay. And that was I think in Oct- September or October when that time ended, and I was passed, and I was commissioned a flight officer. And I was given a seven-day furlough which was the first time I could get to go home after 20 months in the Army. (23:48) Interviewer: Okay now talk about bombardier school, what did you learn there? Well then we did, we went to school or every so often we would fly and- and we would have two- two cadets to a plane and they take us way out where they had targets, round circle targets and you’d drop hundred pound bombs and one student would be doing the bombing and the other student would be in the back of the airplane with a camera and when the bomb would hit a puff of smoke would come up and you had to take a picture of it and that way you had to, in order to pass you had to have all of your bombs within a hundred and fifty feet of the bullseye. (24:42) �Interviewer: Okay now were you using a bomb sight? Oh definitely right, oh yeah and then we also- we also went on trainers. They- they were like big step ladders and then you sit with a bomb sight and then you would- you would line up on a target and then that like a bobbin would go down and so we- we did that. And then we had weather classes and we also had navigation classes, it was a, almost a combination of navigating and bombing and the- the last, well no that was in combat crew training that we had a thousand mile. Interviewer: Okay. Right… Interviewer: Alright… But… Interviewer: Okay so- so now you're actually learning more about what you will do… What were gonna do, right. Interviewer: As bombardier and how that works, okay so you finish at Kirtland field where do you go next? Then I… Interviewer: You had your leave. (25:46) I had my leave and I had to go to Lincoln, Nebraska. And at Lincoln, Nebraska all the bombardier students, the navigating students, the pilots students, the gunnery students, the radar operators all came to Lincoln, Nebraska and there they made you into crews. That's where you got your crew and I was there ‘till I think I was only in Lincoln about a month and then we went to Alamogordo, New Mexico to combat crew training. �Interviewer: Okay. And that's where we started flying old beat up B-29s for combat crews. Interviewer: Okay alright and that's- that's where you flew a thousand miles or? No and then the last, our last before we shipped out of Alamogordo we had to take a 3,000 mile flight west, we had to fly over Los Angeles and out into the ocean and then back because they knew that when we got overseas we would be stationed on one of the islands and that was a 3,000 mile round-trip from our base to Japan and back, so. (27:07) Interviewer: Okay alright now so basically do you have, are you now with the crew that you're gonna be serving with? I’m with the crew in Alamogordo, right. Interviewer: Okay so talk a little bit, what do you remember about those guys? Well we got to know each other, we got, this is what, these guys on the crew you fly with them, you live with them, you get to be brothers. I mean you get, you know they tell you about their family and you tell them about yours, you get to be very close to them. I know even after the war as a crew, we all got to fly back home and I kept up with our crew all, every year I kept up with them with Christmas cards, I’d telling them what we had done and that, no, we- we were veryvery close as a crew, got to know the guys real well. Interviewer: Okay so who was your pilot? (28:06) The pilot, our pilot was Les Gilbert he was a- an original Floridian. He was born and raised in Florida and he was the first person I ever knew that was not from the Midwest. And I remember when we were in Alamogordo his mother used to send him bushels of gra- of fruit; oranges and �grapefruit and all kinds of Florida fruit. And- and I remember Les when he’d get a basket from his mother he would bite into the orange and he would just squeeze the juice out and he’d throw the rest of the orange away and this to me was- was un- unknown to do that. Interviewer: Alright. Yeah right. Interviewer: Okay now who was the oldest guy in the crew? Our oldest guy was a, the radar operator he was 26 and we called him “Pop” and he was from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and I got to be very, very close to him even after the war we took a, we would go to Philadelphia and we would take trips. We went to Canada with him a couple times and we were very, very close to him. He was 20- 26 years old and he was the oldest on the crew. (29:32) Interviewer: Alright and usually in the Military, there’s supposed to be some distance between the officers and the enlisted men. With a flight crew do you have that or are you all… Well the only- the only way with the flight crew that we were different is we were, there were five officers and six enlisted men on the crew. Well we lived in different bar- different Quonset huts than the enlisted man but when we got to the line, you were all the same. There was- there was no different- no difference. Well I- I guess I shouldn't even say this but when we got overseas, we got to know some of the Navy pilots. There was on Guam there was a- a place where the Navy, there was a big Navy and they had a big, big Quonset hut where you could get beer or drinks and then when, if we didn’t have anything to do some of us officers would go and we got to know some of these Navy pilots. And they would take us to their ships and we would �eat with those guys and then they would invite us back and so if we- we would say to a couple of the, of our enlisted men that we’d put lieutenants bar on them and they'd go with us and they was, they believed they were officers too and then we’d eat with them guys because those the Navy officers had it really, had it made on the- on the ships because they ate separate and we all ate together and yeah we was… (31:22) Interviewer: Yeah so you were still getting Army food you're- you’re not a, the Air Force isn't a separate branch yet, so the Navy has better food. Well the- the off- Navy officers did. Interviewer: Yeah. I know- I know those little aircraft carriers or ships they were on the- the Navy men officers would all sit in a room with a big round table, they’d all sit around that table and eat, where we went and we ate, we all ate together we all sat wherever we wanted to but… Interviewer: Right, right now when you were on the Navy ships, did they have black stewards serving you? Yes, they did. Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah they did and they had signs, a lot of signs up, ‘officers country,’ and then they would say, the Navy guys would say, “stay tonight for the movie,” and then they would get chairs out forfor us and we'd sit on- on chairs and watch the mo- the movie where when we, at our base we sat on logs, we didn't have for our movie theaters. (32:25) �Interviewer: Alright so when do you actually go overseas? When I went overseas? Interviewer: When did you go, yeah? We left Alamogordo in April and we went to Kearney, Nebraska and picked up a brand-new airplane and I called my girlfriend and I said, “we're- we're going to,” or I called her before we went to Kearney and I said, “we're going to Kearney, Nebraska and then we're gonna go overseas.” Well she said, “I'm gonna come and see you before you leave.” I said, “I might be gone,” but she said, “I'm coming anyway.” So, she came to Kearney and we were there about a week I guess, calibrating instruments on our new airplane, flying, and getting ready to go overseas. Well she came and the night, I knew we were gonna leave the next day and I, we were restricted to the base and we decided to get married. So, we got married on the- in an- the afternoon we went, our crew went and had dinner at the PX, and she stayed ‘til about eight o'clock and she went to her hotel. I went to the barracks, the next morning we left, I went west she went east, and I didn't see her again until I came home at the end, after the end of the war. And then we flew to Sacramento, California and then I had to have all my papers changed for dependents and- and one, we were in Sacramento about oh maybe a week and then we got orders that we were leaving, flying to Hawaii and we couldn’t look at our orders until we were over the ocean and then they, we were- flew about an hour and we opened up the orders and we were going to Guam and so we flew to Hawaii, we were there about a week, then we flew to Kwajalein, overnight at Kwajalein and from Kwajalein to Guam. (34:54) Interviewer: Okay so in- in Hawaii did- did you get to be a tourist? Did you go to the beach or? �Yeah, yes, we, there we went I know that we took the bus from the base to downtown Hawaii, Honolulu and it looked like Monday morning. It was completely white with soldiers with NavyNavy men all in their white uniforms and we, so we only were in Hawaii in Honolulu a little while and then we went to the beach and it was beautiful there, at night we'd sit by the officer's club and sit out in the open and a nice warm weather and it was beautiful and we took, when we took off from Hawaii to Kwajalein we flew the Dole- Dole Pineapple Company had a big water tower shaped like a pineapple and we flew right over that water tower to, on our way to Kwajalein. Interviewer: Okay, so you go to Kwajalein, and eventually you get to Guam. Then I went to Guam. Interviewer: Okay and then what kind of facilities did you have at Guam, what was there? Well at Guam, they- they- they only had… we were the first, one of the first replacement crews to the 330th Bomb Group in fact they were still working on a runway when we landed. And they took us to our Quonset hut. There were two- two crew officers from two crews in one Quonset. Well they took us, our crew, our five officers they took us to a Quonset hut as a replacement crew that had got shot down a couple days before. So, when we came into the Quonset hut with another crew we were not too much welcome because they had just lost all their friends that had been in that Quonset hut before us, but it didn't take long we were, we got to be friends with that crew too, so. (37:06) Interviewer: Okay, now… And then now we got, well we got married on 18th of April, we flew to Mather Field, Hawaii Kwajalein and we flew our first combat mission on May 4. �Interviewer: Okay. And well before we flew on combat missions, we flew a couple training missions on, we bombed a little island off the coast of Guam, Rota, and that's where there- there were still Japanese on that Island that they had by- been bypassed by the Japanese Navy. They were just living off the land. Interviewer: Right. So, they- they knew when we were leaving on a mission because we flew over that little island so… Interviewer: Okay. But then we- we- we practiced bombing a couple times that- that runway that was there and- and then May 4 we flew our first mission. Interviewer: Okay now what do you remember about that first mission? (38:06) Well the first mission, our, from Guam to Japan was a 1500 miles and so it took six hours, we flew for six hours. Well you can't fly in formation for six hours, so you flew individually, and the navigator was told, given a- a- a point on the, off the coast of Japan for our group to meet. Well the lead plane would take off first and we would all ind- individually fly to that point. Well when we got there the lead crew would have the nosewheel of their plane dropped and he would be circling and we would all circle and get in formation and we usually form, our formation was a lead plane, a- a plane on each wing, and then one in the slot, back of the lead plane that we had four planes and then we would take off for our target. (39:16) Interviewer: Alright. �And I remember that that first mission we- was a- was an airfield on Kyushu. And I can remember we were all- all tense and finally that lead plane I saw the bomb bay doors go open, so we opened our bomb bay doors, I don't even think I looked at the bomb site that mission because I just dropped the bombs on- on the lead plane when he- and I was looking watching all them Japanese running around and there were all airplanes lined up and they didn't have any- any hardly any fuel so they weren't doing much flying. And there wasn’t, I don't think there was very little flak that first mission and we dropped our bombs and went back out over the- got over the coast and then we broke up then we all flew individually back, but they told us, “don't waste time getting in formation because you don't have that much gas. And if you to- use too much gas you won't have enough to make it back to Guam,” and luckily shortly after we started bombing Japan then the Marines had taken Iwo Jima? , so if you knew you were gonna run out of gas you could stop in Iwo Jima and get gas, and load up with gas. But we had a good airplane that got, we- we got good gas mileage and so we never had to stop for gas in- in Iwo Jima, we could make it back. (40:57) Interviewer: Alright and you said that when you were on this mission you could- you could see the Japanese on the ground. Oh yeah. Interviewer: How- how high were you, what was your altitude? I think it might have been around, between 12,000 feet and 9,000. Interviewer: Okay. I- I know the- the book I got the book on the 330th that tells about every mission and about the altitude and usually, see that's why when Curtis LeMay took over the 20th Air Force they were flying B-29s out of China and they were flying at thirty-some thousand feet. �Interviewer: Right. And they weren't hitting anything, they didn't know about the- the air, what do they call that? Air, that wind… Interviewer: Right you can have the effects of the wind and all that. The wind, well they were- they were made well when Curtis LeMay took over, he said, “you guys are gonna go in at, between 12,000 and 9,000 feet.” He said, “so you can start hittin’ something.” Well they told him, “hey you're gonna lose everybody.” We said, “that's what we're gonna do.” So that's what- what we were flying at, so I'd say we were maybe at 10- 10,000 feet something like that. Interviewer: Okay. But I could see all those Japanese soldiers running around and… Interviewer: Right okay now that you know they're- they’re concern because the enemy anti-aircraft fire can hit you at that level, enemy fighter planes could get you at that level, but that first mission was- was pretty quiet sounded… Oh very quiet well then shortly after that we started doing night missions and most of our missions were night missions and you flew up individually, you flew to your- to your initial point, and usually our initial point was Mount Fujiyama because Mount Fujiyama you could see miles and miles away already, you- you flew up to Mount Fujiyama and then the bombardier would tell the pilot what course to head for but you really didn't have to tell the pilot because all you did- had to do was look out and you could see a big fire, well you knew that was where you had to go. So, the pilot headed for that fire. (43:18) Interviewer: Alright. �And- and then with the night missions we dropped our bombs the- the radar operator and the bombardier would work together and- and he would give me points to put on the bomb site and then we would drop our bombs according to the radar operator. And that was most of our missions were- were night missions. Interviewer: Okay now and were you dropping incendiary bombs? Oh yeah they- we drop little, well they were all made up into one bomb but they were little bombs they were only about- oh about 18 inches long and not very big aro- they were five pound magnesium bombs and the only way you could put those out is with sand. Water- water didn't put them out and the Japanese- the Japanese built their- all their hoses around the factory. Well you just with- with one- one big bomb like one B-29 could almost take out the whole city of Grand Rapids because them little five pound bombs they were- were made into 500-pound bombs, and then they would go, you’d drop them and then them straps would go up and then bombs would just scatter all over and everything would burn up that it was… and then everyevery so often maybe- maybe one out of twenty planes would have high explosive bombs and then they would drop, and they would scatter that fire all over. It- it was bad, it was bad yeah it… (45:00) Interviewer: When you were doing the flying were you thinking at all about the effect it was having on the people on the ground? No. Interviewer: Or were you just doing your job? Well one- one day after we had dropped quite a few, flown quite a few missions the radar operator and I went to the chaplain and we- we had told him we- we said, “this is- this is not- this �is not right that we kill all those people. Well, the chaplain said, “well that’s- that's war.” And itit- it wasn't- it wasn’t that we were trying to destroy factories, it was the city. Interviewer: Yeah. You were- you were bombing the city, so it… Interviewer: So on some level you were aware of that. Well yeah, yeah right. We- we went and talked to the chaplain about it, yeah. Him and- him and the radio operator and I we- we went and talked to the chaplain. (46:09) Interviewer: Okay so how many missions did you fly? We flew- we flew 24 missions but a couple of those missions were a show of force because afterafter we had the war, after we had dropped the atomic bomb then we would fly real low over Japan and I know some of those, couple of those missions of we fly or we were very low and you can see the people were all looking up. They- they- they couldn't comprehend that all those airplanes that and then we sent- we sent before we would drop bombs on a city a couple days before we would have a fly, planes fly over and drop leaflets and tell the people we're gonna bomb your city, if you want to be safe get out of town. Because, and- and so we did give- we did give warning to those towards the end there that we- we gave warning because people don't realize it would have been mass murder if we would had- had to invade Japan because the kids were all prepared. (47:34) Interviewer: Yeah. And it was, people don't realize what it would have been like I know about a month before the war ended there were trucks and Jeeps and tanks, Guam was so full of equipment all ready for �the invasion and I found out about, oh about a month before the war ended they built a new airfield. We were at Northfield, they built a new airfield they called North East Field and that was for bombardier for B-29s but they flew their missions without Gunners and now I find out after I talked to some other guys that were on that field those planes were gonna, that field was made for B-29s to drop supplies during the invasion, that's what that field was for because those crews just flew without Gunners or without guns just drop bombs and but they were gonna load the bomb bays up with tanks and trucks and drop supplies on the… in the invasion. Interviewer: Okay let's go back to your own missions did you have problems with antiaircraft fire? Was that a regular thing? (49:09) Oh yeah, yeah, yeah anti- aircraft… we always hit- hit- hit a lot of anti- aircraft during missions, but at night the sky would be full of searchlights searching and if you got caught in one of those searchlights which we did a couple times then they were all synchronized on the ground and they would all get on you and then they, the- the anti-aircraft well we had what we called little rolls of aluminum foil that we called rope and the radio operator would go in the back to the back of the plane by the camera hatch and he would throw that rope out and then the searchlights would go on to that rope and then they would follow that rope down and then they would come off of us and we had that- we had that happen a couple of times that we'd get caught in the searchlights especially over Tokyo and- and Yokohama and they it would be so light in that air plane it would be just like sitting here, you could read a book and then the- the pilot would kind of put the nose of the plane down and I know one night I looked at the speedometer we were going 312 miles an hour and- and Joe the cameraman was throwing rope out and the searchlights all went off on us and so we got in the clear again. �(50:41) Interviewer: Okay now you mentioned that Joe could get a little bit overexcited or you talked about one incident throwing out the rope where… Yeah. Interviewer: Where it didn't work the, quite the way it was supposed to. No he, Joe was kind of a nervous and the camera- the radio operator over Japan didn't have anything to do, he… so that was Joe, Joe is kind of a nervous guy anyway and so he went with the box of rope to the back of the plane and took the cover off the camera hatch and- and we got, we're flying along and it was over Tokyo and we got caught in the searchlights and I said, “Joe throw out the rope,” and he threw out the whole box and when we landed back on Guam that morning the whole back of the air plane looked like a Christmas tree, a lot of that rope had flown back, blow back in to the blade… but… Interviewer: Aright. But at least he got rid of the searchlights. (51:44) Interviewer: Okay now you also had an on air, an in air collision at one point, right? Well yeah and that was one of the, that was just before the end of the war and this was an all-out mission on a- on a- on a factory just outside of Tok- out of Tokyo and there were a lot of- of us flying four- formation planes in a row gonna drop our bombs and that lead plane decided to slow up, well with a huge airplane by the time that slowing up got to us guys in the back, well the planes were going different direc- well finally this one plane that was in our formation got right over us and it was so I could read the- I could read the bomb, the numbers on the bombs and the plane- the tail of our plan we had lost an engine we were flying on three engines and the tail of �our plane went into the bomb bay of this plane above us and ripped off a big piece of our, the tail of our plane. And I said, “oh Lord don't let him drop to the bombs,” because he would have taken me along with it. Interviewer: Yup. And finally- finally our pilot got the noise down and we got out of formation. And years later a fellow sent me a picture that somebody had taken of our plane who you are all- all by ourselves and you can see a, the plane where the tail had been taken off and one of the engines was out, we had lost two eng- actually lost two engines that day but we got one started again and we were flying on three engines and so then we flew back on three engines back to Iwo and that's the- the only time we had to stop at Iwo. (53:55) Interviewer: Okay so you did stop there once. Then we landed, a lot of planes after that mission, a lot of planes were landing on Iwo and wewe landed our plane on Iwo and they were ready to bulldoze our airplane back in, off the runway into the ocean and we said “no, no, no, no we don't want to lose our airplane.” So, they kept it and they- they repaired the tail in Iwo and most of us flew back on different airplanes but some of the, they flew some of our ground crew from Guam to Iwo and they repaired our plane and then they flew it back. (54:35) Interviewer: Okay so the airstrip at Iwo that was long enough to take a B-29 off from? It was long enough, but there were so many that wanted to land. Interviewer: Yeah. �And- and they- they had to get that runway clear so instead of trying to push- just push our plane off and let another plane land we said, “no, no,” well they would have pushed it into the ocean and then because so… Interviewer: So- so you had some place where you could park the plane? Yeah, they- they, there was a place then that they could- they could get it off the runway and could park it, yeah, yeah. Interviewer: Alright. I know we stayed overnight- I know we stayed overnight on Iwo and but there were still Japs on Iwo it was kind of a scary night, you never knew if the Japs were coming out, so. Interviewer: Yeah, I guess there- there was one point when a bunch of them came out from under some place… Oh yeah. (55:30) Interviewer: To then attack the airstrip. Oh, they had all caves and yeah, yeah… Interviewer: Okay alright and then let's see did you have incidents where you- you took damage from anti-aircraft fire? Did your plane ever get hit? Oh we got hit, we got hit by flak a lot and this one mission I think it was Yokohama, we had- we had dropped our bombs and we were flying, maybe no I don't think we had dropped our bombs yet, we were coming up to Yokohama and all of a sudden it just, sky just turned black you- you could have walked on it, and I thought, oh no we got to fly through that and well we got through it and I could see, sitting right in the front of it I could see pieces of plane- of pieces of the plane flying off it and we got through, dropped our bombs and we got over the ocean again and the �radio operator was very quiet he sits all by himself in the back and it's dark you don't- you don't see nothing. He said, “well I got a- I got a window now,” he said and he had a hole was about four inches above his head that there was a hole in the airplane and that flak had gone right over his head if it would have been just a little bit lower it would have taken his head right off but so he got a, he had a hole in his head, a hole in the plane but we could hear the flak hitting different planes, parts on the airplane, it wasn't, we were far enough away from it that it didn’t have enough force to go through the plane but that- that piece of flak was close to the plane that it had, could go right through- right through the plane. (57:29) Interviewer: Okay no did you ever see any Japanese aircraft? Oh yeah, one day we were this was a flight, we were flying the day mission and like I said we had a circle the lead plane well we were gonna be on the right wing there's gonna be the lead plane we were gonna be on right wing and ano- another plane on the left wing, and one in the slot. Well this was a, kind of a new crew they hadn't flown too many missions yet, well any- they got on the, our place on the wing and so our pilot said, “well I'll just take the slot,” so we got in the slot and we were flying along and of course I'm sittin’ in the nose and all of a sudden the shadow, I could see a shadow fly across right in front of me and I- I- I didn't know what that was, well I looked out and that plane where we were supposed to be dropped out of formation and he started going down and then I saw six men jump out of the back of the plane and the plane kept going down, circle down and I- I watched it crash and I know those five guys in the- in the front of the plane none of those five guys got out but the six guys in the back they all got out and theyI saw all them six parachutes and I saw that fighter plane go around circle and shoot them as- as they were floating down that fighter machine-gun them six guys and they- they evidently he �killed them all because they- they were they're still all listed as missing in action but they all got killed and they were, they- that plane was flying in our place. Interviewer: Right. So, I had somebody else protecting us, there were somebody watching over us. (59:42) Interviewer: Right yeah now did you, you had- you had guns and Gunners on your plane, right? Oh yeah, oh yeah, we had, of course with a B-29 the- the gunners were not near the guns. The guns were on the top and bottom turret and then in the back there were two- two turrets and the Gunner sat in the- towards the back of the plane. The one Gunner on this side and one Gunner on that side and in the middle, they called him the central controller- central control fighter bombgunner. He sat on what they called the ‘barber chair,’ and he sat on a chair up and he could look through the top of the plane, so he could look 360 because the chair swiveled, he had a 360 and then of course they the tail gunners, so we had one, two, three, four Gunners and they had a gun sight by ‘em and that gun sight had a, you looked into that gun sight and there was a circle of lights, the farther away the plane- the fighter was you put that circle around that fighter and the closer he got that circle- you made that circle bigger and then it was all on a computer then and the bombardier, I was in charge of the guns because well some, you know I could shoot in the front but also this, the- the on the barber chair he could shoot or the if they're plane- fighters were coming this way the- the left gunner would shoot or, so… (1:01:38) Interviewer: Okay and you had in the turrets where some of these sort of, basically remote control? I mean the turret is up here, but the people are controlling it… �Yeah so, they’re sittin’, yeah, they’re sittin’ different, yeah right they see there were four- fourfour guns here and four guns here and four here and four here, so there’d be sixteen guns plus the tail Gunner shooter, could shoot. Interviewer: Alright. Yeah. Interviewer: Do you know if your plane ever shot anything down? Our tail Gunner claims that he shot a fighter down but he had, you had to have proof you know he said, “I know I,” he said, “I know I shot that plane down,” but- but there was no proof. Interviewer: Right. None of our Gunner, other Gunners because he was in the back but- but we had never no, no, we- we- we never had credit for shooting a plane down, no, no. Interviewer: Alright and were fighters only a problem during the day? Yeah right- right yes and they, the Japanese see we took out all their oil refineries that’s- that was what they started doing. (1:02:52) Interviewer: Right. Well Japanese didn't have much fuel they, you know about the only cities they could take care of would be like Tokyo or Yokohama or Osaka or Kobe, they could take, but those and then we bombed after the oil refineries then we start bombing the airfields and the- the Navy pilots that we talked to they said, “now you guys flying over Japan, you let us know where these airfields are or where the ships are that we can go and bomb them.” So, we’d have to if we met themthem pilots from the- them little aircraft carriers we'd say, “well there's an airfield over here or there's an airfield over here, or there's a ship, there’s ships over here,” and so… �Interviewer: Alright. We worked together. (1:03:54) Interviewer: Okay now do you remember hearing about the atomic bomb being dropped? We were coming back from a mission in August and on the radio, they had said there, they had, we had dropped a bomb and wiped out a city and trees were blown over made- made such a wind and we couldn't comprehend. We didn't, and then- then by the time we landed, well then it was all over the- all over the news you know that we had a bomb that- that they had dropped and well we didn't know anything about it, we- we didn't know a thing about it, well then they- they- they told us that the Hiroshima had been wiped out. And- and then a couple days later they- they dropped another bomb on Nagasaki and we knew nothing about it but that- that plane I think that the planes that dropped the atomic bomb I think where on Tinian and they were, they had to make a special shoot to drive the air plane over it and that bomb was underneath and you had to lift it up into… Interviewer: Yeah. Modify the belly of the plane, and yeah so but no we didn’t know anything about that. (1:05:16) Interviewer: And then shortly after that then the Japanese surrender. Yeah right, but then there was a crew, one of the- the crews that from our group 330th Bomb Group, they had got shotten down and after the war, the war was over but we were still on Guam and well this crew came back and we got to talk to those guys and they had been taken captive, they had chute- parachuted out of the plane and a little island off in Japan they were right near that and then Japanese came and got them and they- they were- they were captive and they were �put in prison and they were taken by the Japanese to Hiroshima and this one, one guy told me he said, “they blindfolded us and they lead their swords on our necks and then they made us look at what, and we figured they were gonna chop our head off but they- they didn't, they- they let us, let us go.” And- and then I know after the war… Interviewer: That was your microphone falling out alright should stay there for a while okay. (1:06:47) I know after the war then we- we didn't, as a bombardier I didn't have to go they just took a skeleton crew and then they loaded the Bombay’s up with supplies and then they would take them to these prisoner of war camps and then I know this one- one guy that had come back he said, “when they dropped their supplies,” he said, “we start beating them Japanese up,” he said, “cause they ran after them supplies too,” and he said “we start beating ‘em up to get out of there, that's, them are for us,” and- and he said, “some of them Japanese they just walked away from the prisoner of war camp. They- they just let us be they didn't want anything to do with us anymore.” So, but then when we they signed the peace treaty, then we flew over the battleship Missouri and then we follow- we watched the Marines land on Japan and they went took over, went, got stationed in Japan and we were given orders do not land on Japan. Do not land in Japan. And there was another city that we might not bomb and that was Kyoto and that was just out of Japan and that was a- an old, old city with all the old buildings and we were told you do not bomb that city so we- we couldn't bomb Kyoto. (1:08:19) Interviewer: Right, right okay so then once the war is over how long was it before you gotgot to go back to the States? �Well I think it was September when they signed the peace treaty so then we laid around and then they start- they start making us fly, they were gonna start checking out, see we had an airplane commander and a pilot. And the airplane commander sat in the left seat and the pilot, well they start checking these pilots out to make them airplane commanders. Well we start losing, for some reason we start and so we didn’t- we didn’t- we didn’t go for that so we didn't do much, if we could get out of flying, we- we got out of flying. Interviewer: Okay. (1:09:17) Well then after the war they, the way they discharged the guys where the length of service you, the length of time you were in the service, the time you spent overseas in combat, that all added up. Well one day they told us, you're gonna fly, you guys are gonna go home your crew is gonna go home you're high enough on points. Well so we got all we got all got packed up and we got to the plane and there were ten guys standing there, High point men from India. They had flown them guys from India to Guam and they were gonna fly home with us and now- now when I think about it why I flew home then as an observer I- I- I they didn't need a bombardier. Interviewer: Right. So I sat were the- the left Gunner sat and those ten guys stood up all the way home from Guam to the United States and I thought, now why didn't I go, they were in the radar, where the radar operator was standing there, them ten guys. I thought why didn't I go in there and say to one of them guys, “hey come on and sit down here where I sit, I'll stand up for a while,” but you know you're so anxious to get home and I- I know this- this one guy had a little cage that he had made out of bamboo and he had a parrot in there and he guarded that parent- parrot all the way home. I �mean we- we did stop, we stopped in Kwajalein and then we stopped again in Hawaii for a couple days and those guys did get, you know they did get to sit down. Interviewer: Yeah. But when the flight time they stood up all the way that poor guy that, you know I could just as well said to one of them guys, “hey come and sit down here a while and, but you are anxious to get home too you know. Interviewer: Okay so where did you land in the continental US? (1:11:39) We landed in, well we landed in Mather Field and I think it was just outside of Sacramento. Pittsburgh, I think was a lil- it’s a little town and Pittsburgh and we landed there and then we got on, we were there, I know when we- when we landed we- we could go to the mess hall and they have, never saw a mess hall like that in my life, they had all kinds of, they had ham, they had chicken, they had beef, they had pork, they had the best of everything and you could pick out whatever you wanted. And- and- and coming home from- coming home from Guam we landed in Hawaii and we were in line at the mess hall and the cook said, “well what do you want?” “Well I’ll have a couple eggs,” so the- my pilot, the Pilot Gilbert he said, “I want a dozen eggs.” So, okay you don’t know you’re gonna get them well then pretty soon the guys said, “where’s the guy who wanted a dozen eggs?” he said, “here they are.” So handed Gilbert a tray with a dozen- dozen fried eggs on it so but that- that mess hall in- in California that was really with everything that you wanted while we were there a couple days and then we got on a troop train then we slowly on, well when we got to I think it was a couple days we got to Chicago and then I think, I know it wasn't Camp Grant, Fort Sheridan. Interviewer: Yeah. �I think they call it. (1:13:23) Interviewer: North of Chicago? Yeah that's where we got and I know there were a lot of German prisoners of war there I can- I can remember them talking German and I was there a couple days and- and then I- I got my discharge and I but I- I- I don't think I got really actually got discharged till I think January. Interviewer: Okay. Of about ’46. Interviewer: But you went home before that? Oh yeah, oh yeah, I- I think I got home right after Thanksgiving. Cause I, it was a yeah… Interviewer: Okay alright so now you're out of the Army. I’m out of the Army. Interviewer: You get to rejoin your wife finally. Yeah, yeah finally join, yeah right and you know that's what, this is what really makes me madmad yet today. I was in such a hurry to get home, why didn't I call my wife and say, “get on a train and meet me in Chicago and we'll stay at the YMCA for a couple of days and then I’ll…” but no, I got my discharge, I went right to the train station, I said, “I'll be home at six o'clock tonight,” you know you do dumb things, but anyway it all- it all worked out so… (1:14:45) Interviewer: Alright. We were married almost 72 two years, so. Interviewer: Alright now once you got back home and then did you go back to work for the newspaper or? �Well then, yeah well then of course I got home, well then we had to look for a place to live well du- all the time during the war there was no building going on and- and after the war there were thousands of guys that got married, well I put an ad in the paper and I think I got three or four calls one- one I remember one- one guy called and said, “yeah you might have to do a little work,” it was a back porch that had onions stored on there and there's no way you could, well then we got lucky there was an upstairs apartment the- the lady that lived downstairs had Alzheimer's well at that time they called it hardening of the arteries. Interviewer: Okay. Well her sister called and said, “she's got an apartment you can rent that was furnished.” (1:15:57) Interviewer: Right. So, oh yeah we grabbed that one, $25 a month and so we took that apartment and I was home about a week and I said to my wife I said, “I'm gonna go talk to the guys at the Sentinel,” and I got to the Sentinel and I got walked in there and started talking to the guys and the- the boss came up to me and said, “Orley come back to work, we need you.” He said, “we’re so shorthanded,” I said, “I- I only been home a week!” He said, “come back to work.” So, I said, “okay.” So I was home a week and I went back to work and I kept on. I stayed there ‘til 1977 and then my wife's parents had a furniture store and they wanted to retire, so we took over the furniture store in 1970 and I kept on working at the Sentinel. My wife ran the store and I delivered it afternoons. Well in 1977 my wife had health problems with asthma, she said, “we either have to get out of the store or you have to quit.” So, I said, “okay I'm gonna quit.” So I then I took, I came in the store full-time and- and then we had the store ‘til 1983 and then the- �the building we were in, they were sold it and I start working for the city for ten years in the summer and we went to Florida in the winter and so that’s all I got. Interviewer: Alright. Yeah, so. (1:17:40) Interviewer: Okay so now when you look back on it, look back at the time that you spent in the service, how do you think that affected you or what did you learn from that? I think every young person should be in the Army because you learn discipline. Now if me personally, I- I could say like the- the, some guys who say, “I found a home in the Army,” I could say, “I- I found a home in the Army.” I- I liked it I like I say I was used to being discipline at home my father was a disciplinarian and I was used to being told what to do. So that didn't bother me, and I was a young kid and I think I, when I think back now, I wanted to get out of the house because my dad was a disciplinarian and I came from a big family. My mother had twelve kids, I was the oldest and there was always a bunch of little kids in the house, I wanted to get out of the house so I got out of the house and I enjoyed the army, I can- I can actually say I- I had, I loved the Army. (1:18:57) Interviewer: Alright. It taught me- it taught me- it taught me everything it- it grew me up it made a man out of me instead of being a- a boy. That's- that's what I think I got out of the Army. Interviewer: Alright well the whole thing makes for a very good story so I’d just like to thank you for taking the time to share it today. Oh yeah, right, right. �Interviewer: Alright. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanDykeO2336V Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Dyke, Orley Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-10 Title A name given to the resource Van Dyke, Orley (Interview transcript and video), 2019 Description An account of the resource Orley Van Dyke was born on December 30th, 1924 in Holland, Michigan. After graduating high school in 1942, he worked in printing for the newspaper for a few months. Right when he turned 18, he enlisted in the Army. He began basic training and flash and sound training for artillery in Fort Sill, Oklahoma. There he passed a test for the Air Force and changed to that military branch. He was sent to Sheppard Field, Texas for three months before beginning college at Kansas State College in Manhattan, Kansas after which he would be classified as a bombardier. He then attended pre-flight training in Santa Ana, California before being sent to Kirtland Field in Albuquerque, New Mexico for bombardier school. After a short leave, he went to Lincoln, Nebraska to be assigned to a crew. He then went to combat crew training in Alamogordo, New Mexico. After that he went to Kearney, Nebraska to pick up a new airplane and married his girlfriend there before preparing for deployment. He flew first to Sacramento, California, then to Hawaii for about a week, then to Kwajalein, and finally to Guam, where he flew to Japan for his first bombing mission. He flew a total of 24 missions. Right before the end of the war, he was involved in an in-air collision where he lost the tail and two engines from his plane. He was able to fly the plane to Iwo to be repaired. After World War II ended, he was flown home and discharged in January 1946. He returned to work at the newspaper until 1977 when he helped his wife run their furniture store until 1983. He spent the next ten years working for the city in the summer and visiting Florida in the winter. Van Dyke values his time in the military and the discipline it taught him. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States—History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945—Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/44cc9f26da489a1c549baaa65ef1c318.mp4 fdb56be01930614630e5eafc45a31e4c https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6ff70fa870d4e8e5747b4488d4e83d72.pdf 38361e3cc7ef3571f6482c4993276003 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Marcia Van Ess Vietnam War 1 hour 22 minutes 8 seconds (00:00:13) Early Life -Born on January 14, 1949 at St. Mary’s Hospital in Grand Rapids, Michigan -Grew up on the West Side of Grand Rapids -Had three brothers and three sisters -Raised Catholic -Went through twelve years of Catholic school -Father worked in a factory -Mother was a housewife (00:01:17) Nursing School -Wanted to go into nursing -Attended Mercy Central School of Nursing in Grand Rapids -When the Vietnam War really began to intensify recruiters from various branches came in -Needed nurses, but most would only accept nurses with college degrees -She was a diploma nurse meaning she had not gone to college -The Army would accept diploma nurses -Covered a myriad of medical subjects in a condensed time -While in nursing school joined the Army and planned to serve after nursing school -Started attending in 1967 and graduated from the program in December 1969 (00:05:03) Awareness of Historical Events -Didn’t pay a lot of attention to the Vietnam War -Didn’t have time to focus on national events during school -Didn’t come from a family with a strong military background -Older brother was in the National Guard and was called up during the race riots -Remembers hearing about the assassinations of the Kennedys and of Martin Luther King Jr. (00:06:18) Enlisting in the Army -When she signed up for the Army she was told there was no chance of going to Vietnam -She was also told that she would be given a choice of where she wanted to be stationed -Passed the state board for nursing and was commissioned into the Army as a 2nd Lieutenant (00:07:59) Basic Training -Sent to Fort Sam Houston, San Antonio, Texas for basic training -Thoroughly enjoyed it -For her basic training was a mix of basic Army knowledge and mostly nurse training -Given rudimentary Army training -How to read maps, marching in formation and protocol, and an introduction to Vietnam -Taught the types of wounds that were caused by different bullets -Trained with live goats -Used them for being taught how to properly give a tracheotomy and stitches -No emphasis on discipline during her time in basic training -Lived in private, two person rooms as opposed to barracks �-Allowed to have time off and she and the other recruits frequently partied during training -Felt like she was playing soldier and didn’t grasp the potential gravity of the situation -Most of the captains were nurses that had college degrees -Basic training lasted six weeks (00:12:09) Fort Knox, Kentucky -After completing basic training and two weeks of leave she was deployed to Fort Knox -She and another nurse from Michigan were able to drive down to Kentucky together -Arrived at Fort Knox in April 1969 -Her initial assignment was to be a nurse for women (c-sections, OB/GYN) -Wanted to be an operating room nurse -Signed up for the Army’s operating room training course -Received orders for Vietnam before she could complete the course -At Fort Knox it was a normal forty hour work week schedule -Advised to date officers and not the enlisted men -Met some Vietnam veterans while at Fort Knox -Still felt disconnected from the reality of the conflict -Focused on her work and didn’t pay much attention to the news -Wanted to be deployed somewhere like Europe or the South Pacific or around America (00:16:14) Deployment to Vietnam -Received orders for Vietnam in late summer 1970 -Orders were for deployment in October 1970 -Parents didn’t understand the severity of the war -Granted a leave home to see her friends and family before being deployed -Didn’t receive any involved Vietnam orientation prior to leaving -Flew from Michigan to San Francisco and from San Francisco to Vietnam -Remembers that it was a somber flight over (00:19:09) Arrival in Vietnam and Assignment -Landed in Tan Son Nhut Air Base near Saigon -From there went to Bien Hoa Air Base to the 90th Replacement Battalion -Stayed there for a couple days -Assigned to the 24th Evacuation Hospital at Long Binh -Told that Long Binh was relatively safe -Hadn’t taken enemy fire for thirty days -Remembers seeing the villages and U.S. soldiers on the road en route to the hospital -Shocked by the level of poverty and seeing fully armed soldiers (00:21:02) Organization of the Hospital -Hospital was made of a collection of Quonset huts -Each ward was given its own hut -Twenty eight beds to a ward -One bathroom for each hut -Placed in pre operation and recovery -Witnessed the triage process -Learned that viable soldiers took priority in getting treated -Medics taught her how to adapt to treating combat wounds and caring for the soldiers -Rank and unit didn’t carry much importance in the hospital -Priority was insuring that wounded soldiers were stabilized and cared for �(00:24:07) Medical Conditions in the Hospital Pt. 1 -Operating room was basic and it was difficult to keep it sanitary -After an operation soldiers were sent to the various wards for specialized care -As the war came to a close hospitals were closed or consolidated -Her ward (pre-op and recovery) was combined with the ICU ward -Exposed to the critically wounded soldiers in the ICU ward -Infections were extremely common -Severely wounded soldiers that were stabilized were evacuated to Saigon or Japan -Tremendous emotional weight not knowing what happened to those soldiers -Burn ward was primitive and traumatic to work in -Towards the end of the war most soldiers were suffering burns from helicopter crashes -Witnessed graphic injuries: burns that went down to the bone -Had to remove the dead tissue and apply gauze -Remembers one soldier that wound up dying en route to a bigger hospital -Lack of emotional attachment made the work a little easier, but not much (00:29:27) Working and Life outside the 24th Evacuation Hospital -Only allowed to ride on a helicopter twice -Nurses were restricted after a crash killed six nurses at once -One time was getting flown over to an Australian hospital at Vung Tau -Felt like a vacation being on the beach there -Stayed there for a week -Australians gave her a tour of the surrounding area -Remembers the 90th Replacement Battalion getting hit by enemy fire -A person she knew was killed during that strike -Hitched rides into Saigon a couple times -Helped a Vietnamese woman deliver a baby en route one time (00:33:20) Vietnamese POWs -Had to treat Vietnamese POWs and villagers fairly regularly -Villagers were usually released from the hospital quickly -POWs were treated, kept in the hospital, then shipped out -U.S. soldiers were not pleased sharing their hospital with wounded Vietnamese -POWs were guarded by military police so no assaults happened to her knowledge -U.S. wounded were allowed to berate and vent at the POWs though -She had to take care of the POWs at times -Never did anything to hurt them, just vented and swore at them occasionally (00:35:21) Frequency of Casualties and International Work -Sustained more casualties in the beginning which meant a higher level of wounded coming in -Number of wounded decreased over time -Medics were starting to be sent out to local orphanages just for something to do -Cared for severely wounded Vietnamese villagers -Remembers South Korean soldiers being incredibly tough -Worked with Polish, Thai, and Australians on several occasions -Did have soldiers come in that had been wounded due to friendly fire and accidents (00:37:35) Drug Problem -Dealt with some soldiers that were suffering from drug problems -She was in Vietnam when heroin became a problem �-Did some counseling with heroin addicts -Had to start taking part in mandatory drug tests as time went on -Remembers hearing that part of the Cam Ranh Bay hospital was turned into a rehab clinic -Soldiers wanted to get clean before they went home (00:41:06) Living Conditions at the Hospital -Lived in barracks -Had air conditioning, running water, electricity, and a bathroom -Had NCO (noncommissioned officer) clubs on base -Had a PX (military general store) -Swimming pool that was open for everyone to use -Allowed to have parties -Used to attend but eventually got tired of it -Didn’t like being perceived as “the woman” at parties -Noticed that non-wounded soldiers were far less respectful than the wounded -Had access to a mess hall -Showed movies every night on the base (00:43:09) Relationship with Officers and Personnel -Didn’t enjoy the unnecessary pomp and circumstance of the military -Annoyed when a colonel came in and was outraged over the lack of military etiquette -Most nurses and doctors didn’t pay attention to military etiquette -Didn’t see it as necessary to doing their job and doing it well -Enjoyed the liberty she was afforded being a nurse in the Army -Nurses were allowed to act independently and didn’t always need a doctor’s permission -Concerned about leaving wounded soldiers in the care of inexperienced nurses -Veteran nurses were incredibly helpful in teaching her how to deal with the wounded -Officers that intended to be lifelong members of the military were not helpful -Inexperienced and out of touch with the reality of situations (00:48:48) Sexual Harassment -Never experienced any form of sexual harassment in Vietnam -Does remember a U.S. soldier assaulting a nurse elsewhere in the country -Led to higher security measures on her base -Believes that being an officer as well as a nurse granted her some protection -Soldiers wouldn’t attack a higher ranking officer -Flirted with doctors, but it was nothing threatening or uncomfortable (00:51:28) Visiting Saigon -Remembers that Saigon was crowded and stunk -Pedicabs were everywhere and were the primary mode of transportation -Able to visit some of the famous landmarks in Saigon -The Catholic cathedral -The Saigon zoo -Vietnamese government buildings -Went to the Saigon River -Saw the impoverished Vietnamese that lived in house boats -Treated well by the Vietnamese in the city �(00:52:50) Payment and Supplies -Got paid in scrip (base credit) -Used it to buy meals and personal supplies on base -When you went into a city you had to convert it into local or American currency -Heard stories of black markets popping up -Never experienced it firsthand though -Her hospital never ran out of supplies -Quality of supplies wasn’t always the best though (00:53:34) Medical Conditions in the Hospital Pt. 2 -Assigned to the emergency room one time -Remembers that it was shocking at how quickly everything happened -Witnessing the rapidity of the triage system was unnerving to her -Saw again how survivability took precedence -Soldiers that were mortally wounded and dying were made comfortable -Hospital also dealt with traumatic head injuries -Most emotionally traumatic injuries that she witnessed and treated -Suffered depression at times over soldiers that died in the hospital or after leaving -Remembers a soldier she stayed up with all night who died en route to another hospital -Doctors comforted and explained that some soldiers were doomed no matter what -Jungle environment and booby traps responsible for the infections -Punji pits and landmines allowed for dirt and feces to be introduced into wounds -Major contributors to the unsanitary conditions faced by medical staff -High rate of complications and amputations due to the foreign germs present in Vietnam (00:59:24) Two Stories of Wounded Vietnamese Villagers -Remembers two Vietnamese women that were severely wounded in a cement mixer -One was inside cleaning the drum while the other was outside -One on the outside turned on the drum as a practical joke -Cost the woman inside an arm and both legs -Woman on the outside went in to try and rescue her -Lost both arms in the process -Remembers a Vietnamese man that was gored by a water buffalo -It became a learning experience/experiment for U.S. medical personnel -Amputated from mid abdomen down and kept alive with machines -Died anyway (01:01:49) Concerns about Quality of Life for Wounded -Always worried about the quality of life for survivors, especially amputees -Wondered if some of the wounded may have been better off dead -Started to hear later on from some amputees that they’re happy to be alive -Vietnam was the place to learn how to deal with amputations and burns (01:03:54) R&R -Went on R&R a few times when she was in Vietnam -Visited Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Bangkok -Always felt good to get off the base and go back to civilization -Excited being able to experience the different cultures -Went with a friend to Hong Kong and Taiwan -Went with a man she’d met to Bangkok �-Treated extremely well by the local people -They knew that Americans had money and would spend it if they felt welcomed (01:06:19) Downtime on Base and Other Details -When people left for home they tended to leave souvenirs and supplies bought behind -Served as a way to help the people who were still on tour -Didn’t get a chance to see Bob Hope when he came to the base -Remembers celebrating Christmas 1970 on the base -Brought in local orphans to celebrate the holiday on the base -One soldier dressed up as Santa Claus -Able bodied wounded soldiers decorated a Christmas tree -Remembers an intricate and bizarre practical joke involving a mannequin dressed as a POW -Got in a little trouble after tricking a supervisor -Remembers during parties people were given IVs so that they wouldn’t get dehydrated -Not allowed to watch the TV show M.A.S.H. during downtime -Had Vietnamese interpreters on the base that worked for them -Helpful, but problematic when their families moved to the base with them (01:09:56) End of Tour -Supposed to leave in October 1971 for redeployment to Fort Riley, Kansas -Didn’t sound like an exciting or fulfilling deployment -Decided to extend tour for a month and a half -Meant she would get discharged from the Army upon leaving Vietnam -Left Vietnam at the end of November 1971 -Preferred to stay in Vietnam to continue to help at the hospital (01:10:47) Coming Home -Left Vietnam at the end of November 1971 and flew into San Francisco -Took some time to visit a friend there -Flew from San Francisco to Chicago and from there to Grand Rapids -Parents misunderstood the time difference between Illinois and Michigan -Led to her arriving at the airport with no one to greet her -Welcome home was fairly anticlimactic -Didn’t run into antiwar protests or harassment upon returning home -Did read a contemptuous article insinuating that nurses in Vietnam supported the war -Felt she was “not supporting the war, supporting the warrior” in Vietnam (01:13:03) Life after the War and Readjusting to Civilian Life -Reconnected with old friends that she’d had before the war -Army did nothing to help with readjusting to civilian life -Started working at a local osteopathic hospital -Took time to adjust to listening to doctors’ orders as opposed to acting independently -Didn’t want to work in the emergency room or in surgery -Had no desire to relive the adrenaline of tense situations like that -Also tended to avoid war movies -Worked in that hospital for thirty six years (01:15:29) Veteran Involvement -Has started to open up about experiences in Vietnam -Family is now more comfortable asking about her time in Vietnam -Spoke at her children’s high school about being a Vietnam veteran �-Has gotten involved with a Vietnam historical group that tours around and talks about the war -Former protestors have come up to her and apologized for being ignorant and belligerent (01:17:48) Reflections on Service -Service made her less naïve -Less trusting of the government -Is against war and always has been, but understands the necessity of action sometimes -Tries to avoid regret and thinking about the “what ifs?” -Appreciates the camaraderie of being a veteran -Always feels welcomed and at home during reunions -Serving in the Army and in Vietnam has made her more accepting and compassionate -Taught her not to be afraid of diversity From 01:13:00 onwards Marcia’s audio starts to fade in and out. If you listen carefully you can still hear what she’s saying, but I figured I should make a note of that for you and possibly have the technical people take a look at it and see if they can boost the sound, or something (if that’s even possible). � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanEssM1588V Title A name given to the resource Van Ess, Marcia (Interview outline and video), 2014 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Ess, Marcia Description An account of the resource Marcia Van Ess was born in 1949 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. After graduating from high school she went on to attend the nursing program at Mercy Central School of Nursing in Grand Rapids at St. Mary's Hospital and during that time enlisted in the Army as a nurse. After graduating from nursing school in December 1969 and passing the nursing test in February 1969 she attended basic training at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio, Texas. In April 1969 she was stationed at Fort Knox, Kentucky and remained there until she received orders for Vietnam in late summer of 1970. She was deployed to Vietnam in October 1970 and was assigned to the 24th Evacuation Hospital at Long Binh. During her time there she was stationed in the pre-operation and recovery ward, had experience with severe burns, amputations, traumatic head injuries and treating the wounds of both U.S. soldiers and Vietnamese prisoners of war. She stayed in Vietnam until November 1971 when she returned home and was discharged from the Army. She is now an active member in a Vietnam War historical group and speaks about her experiences in Vietnam. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-03-20 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/661730359d86efe285d64321e74b6496.mp4 c87d7ba6d02ef412f02277090cdee600 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/30c945e1340120f3d05193f3e60899bf.pdf 2bf2609714c576f0d1da19ed941881a3 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral history interview transcript Robert Van Hammen Born: April 29, 1922 in Beverly, MI WWII Veteran United States Army, October 15, 1940 to July 1945 Army Infantry (Red Arrow) Transcribed by: Joan Raymer July 7, 2007 Interviewer: Were you employed before you enlisted?” No, I went in right out of high school. Interviewer: “You went right into the war out of high school?” Well, I wasn’t through high school really. Everybody in the school belonged to the guard, not everybody did. The principal did, Lester Gore, he was a Major in there and we had teachers in there and about 80% of the South High School band belonged to the guards. In the band there it was sorta-- a fella and I joined the guard, he was 16 and I was 17. Interviewer: “So why did you join the guard?” Well, I was in R.O.T.C. and my dad was in the Paul Bearer division, him and his uncle, fighting in Russia. I just sort of liked the military and you made money too, depression days you know. We trained once a week and once in a while you go out on maneuvers at Pickards Acid Plant that was out in Wyoming that is all. There was no buildings there just woods and prairie. We use to go out there on weekends for maneuvers. 1:14 We had a rifle range and I got more time at the rifle range in the National guard than I did when I went in the army. Right down the Grand River, we could take a pick-up truck or something and put out guns in there and go down to the rifle range, it was on Grand River by Comstock Park right across the street and would sound like a war going on down there. You would sign out all your ammunition and take your rifle along and they had machine guns down there and you had practice with everything. Of course being kids like we were, we enjoyed that. 1:51 Interviewer: “Was that any different—didn’t you train in Louisiana? How was it different than your training in Grand Rapids?” Before that we had 17 days, in 1940, we went to Wisconsin. I’ll tell you a funny one. I was “ I Company” and we heard like thunder, “rolling thunder” like you hear, it was the Calvary and our company got wiped out by the horse Calvary, they come through with their swords and cut the ropes and the governors came along and said, “you have been wiped out: We still had horse Calvary at that time. Right after that they started to eliminate the horse Calvary. We had 17 days of Maneuvers there. 2:47 I got back to school—it was October, October 15th they called us up. They said we’re going to call you up for a year to go down to Louisiana and it wound up 5 years. Then we went on the Louisiana maneuvers, which was the largest maneuvers ever held in the United States. 1 �General Patton was there and one day we were on maneuvers and we saw those tanks burning and I said,” I think I’ll stick with the infantry”. They barely got out there, those guys in those old tanks. 3:23 The old Grant Tanks had 37 MM on them and 30 caliber machine guns, Australians had a lot of them too. They were all made in the United States, not a lot of them, but they had quite a few of them, the old Grant. Interviewer: “How well do you think that prepared you for what you eventually faced when you went over seas?” Well, Louisiana, I’m telling you when your in the infantry it’s worse than the jungles of New Guinea. So many snakes and wood ticks and you name it, they had it—centipedes, Louisiana was terrible— tarantula spiders, the first one I seen, I thought it was a mouse, about like that you know—running across. 4:11 Interviewer: “Do you remember what you were doing when you found out the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor?” I was in town and I barely made it back to camp and they were already packing up to move out, they had it all planned. Out company went to Monroe Louisiana, the headquarters there and I Company went to Natchez and a lot of the regiment went to New Orleans and the first thing we got there, we pulled guard duty on this really long bridge, guarded that and the power plant and the water system. They did that all over Louisiana, spread right out all over the country, so they had something planned and we barely made it back to camp, I did and the guys with me. We just threw our stuff together and headed for Monroe Louisiana. It was a town about the size of Muskegon to compare it with. They had a huge long bridge there and the train goes over there, plus cars. It crossed the Mississippi of course. Interviewer: “After Louisiana, I assume you took a train to San Francisco?” No, we trained for Europe; we didn’t have any jungle training. When we trained for Europe, we had trucks and all that kind of stuff. They kept taking people out of our company and sending them over to Ireland to build up a camp for us, they put then in the engineers, a good friend of mine Ed Register, he got killed by a land mine over there, they put him in the Combat Engineers, they put in land mines, they built a camp for us, but we got moved to Fort Devin, that’s in Massachusetts and getting ready to go to Europe. 6:10 All of a sudden Macarthur got back to Australia and they told him—he said, “where are the troops?” There were no troops, the Australians were all in Greece, Ethiopia and the Middle East, all their good troops, all they had left was the militia. The Australian militia was all draftees, the AIF was all volunteers and the AIF was different as day and night. They had tem all overseas so, the Australians said, “you gotta get our troops back to Australia and Churchill wouldn’t let them go so they gathered up all the ships they could and went over and picked up their own guys and said, “heck with you Churchill”, and they brought them back. The 7th division, the Australian 7th, they threw them right into New Guinea right off the bat. They had short on, brown shorts, no camouflage or anything, threw them right in there. 7:09 They had been fighting for 2 years over in Greece and the middle east and the artillery was from Turbrook. The only artillery we had was four 25 pounders, Australian and they had been to Turbrook and none of those guys hear anything. They used sign language. So they brought those 2 �troops back and the Australians were sure glad to see us, we landed in Adelaide, well first we went from port—when MacArthur said, “send us some troops”, the 41st and the 32nd were available, we were stripped down, I mean a lot of our fellows went to different outfits, the air corps and the paratroopers. 8:03 In fact another guy and I volunteered for the paratroopers, but by the time we moved out of Louisiana and went to Massachusetts, fort Devins, we never got called in there so then when MacArthur said, “ send us some troops”, we took a train all the way from Massachusetts to San Francisco and we sat quite a while in Chicago. 8:35 A big mistake, the guys got “boozed” and some of them got in fights, a couple of windows got knocked out. By the time we got to the mountains, with these windows out, you appreciate the trains you have now days. Those steam ones look good, but that soot and stuff—oh it was terrible. We got—going through those tunnels with the windows out—“bad news”. We got down to “Frisco” they took us to what they call the “Cow Palace”, it’s a big stadium like you have stadiums like where Joe Louis fought there—it’s still there I guess, the Cow Palace, they call it in San Francisco, they moved us in there. Later on we got on a convoy that had 9 ships, plus the Indianapolis. The Indianapolis was the only ship for escort. It was a light cruiser and later on at the end of the war it got sunk, you probably read about it, with all hands. Some 12-year-old kid started writing a book about it because the Captain committed suicide and all that stuff. It was quite a story on it’s own. We thought we were well protected, that cruiser would come around and they couldn’t protect themselves. We had 9 ships, 3 matatonian liners and I was on the Lauraline, which they called the queen of the Pacific. Of course they took everything out of it and they had bunks in there for, you know, but it was still a nice ship and we were headed for Brisbane, Australia, but we got past the equator and they changed course because the Coral Sea Battle broke out and they figured they were going to go after our convoy and we got down towards—we were headed for Brisbane Australia, which is a good port, so they changed ports and we went around the Tasmanian Straights and into Adelaide. They had poor ports and we couldn’t get up to the dock. They had tugs pushing and mud was flowing out and finally we had to take some equipment off to get the boat up there, that’s how poor of a harbor Adelaide had. 10:57 We were originally scheduled for Brisbane, but they figured that the Japs were going to land in Australia anytime. They were on Timor Island, which is near--bombing Darwin, which was nothing but dust they bombed it so many times. 11:14 I’ll tell you, the Australians were glad to see us. At that time, they really welcomed us. Interviewer: “You crossed the equator on your birthday?” On my birthday. I turned 20 and I had already been in the army 2 years by that time. Interviewer: “Did you and the guys celebrate your birthday at all?” No, not much, we didn’t have that—it was pretty good going over, it was a pretty good ship compared to the one I went home on, a “rust bucket”. Interviewer: “What was your impression of the Australians when you got there? What was the first thing you thought about them? 11:54 Very good, very good, it was a different atmosphere. Their taxicabs, they ran on charcoal, they didn’t have any gas at all, over here at least you could get a few gallons of gas, and they couldn’t get any. They had a charcoal burner on the back and charcoal in 3 �the trunk. They put it in and use billows like that and they would take off in a cloud of smoke, terrible, black. The only ones that ran were taxicabs and trucks and the taxicabs all had charcoal burners on the back, on the bumper. It was quite an experience and the first meal I had was mutton stew and it was terrible, they forgot to take the fur off of it. Poor Australian, he was an old timer you know, had an old slouched hat and he looked like he hadn’t taken a bath in a year and he slapped that stuff in our mess kit and after that we bought all or food and cooked in the tent until we got our own cooking facilities. 12:59 We were in a place called Sandy Creek, Camp Cable, no Camp Sandy Creek, the little town there, the little burg was called Sandy Creek. They still got a plaque in there after all those years, 32nd Division, a metal plaque in the tavern there. When we went to town, a train picked us up and our first experience in Adelaide, we went to town and there was just a huge crowd, but 4 girls grabbed us and took us home, which was pretty nice and I went with that one gal all the time I there, Valerie, real nice people. 13:53 she had 3—4 girls in the family and her sisters and her mother, her dad had passed away and they had a band new Pontiac, they had quite a bit of money, they owned 2 big pharmacies in Adelaide. Her father had passed away and her mother was trying to run them, plus she had 4 girls in the family and they had a band new Pontiac sitting in the garage up on cement blocks, they couldn’t—they had a yacht down at the Murray River, 50 miles away from Adelaide and they had that up on –they had no gas or oil for anything, the Australians, just trucks and taxicabs. 14:40 The taxicabs didn’t either, but they run off charcoal, awful pollution., it was terrible. Interviewer: “Were you airlifted into combat at all?” No, I went by boat and then to Port Moresby and we trained there a little bit, then we took an airplane to a strip the Australians and the natives cut out the jungle, the did all the metal mat and the C47’s got stuck and they had named them “pussy airplanes” and that was quite a site to see the natives pushing the airplanes when they got stuck. 15:18 We landed on that and we had two weeks going over the mountains, our particular battalion, the 2nd battalion out of our regiment went for 48 days on a trip around –trying to outflank the Japs and for 48 days they couldn’t get anything to them, food or nothing. They didn’t use parachutes in those days, they just dropped supplies off, burlap, they would kick them off the airplane and later on they started using parachutes. Our regimental band, that’s what they did, they flew on those airplanes and dumped the supplies out to us. 16:03 That one battalion there, they had it about the worst of anybody. They couldn’t find them half the time, they were starved and half of their equipment-- they hung onto their rifles and stuff, but everything else was gone. I had a pistol and gas mask hanging in the jungle there somewhere. I took them off—we had about 60 pounds on you and no food. Sugar cane, I cut a lot of that and put it in my pack. I kept chewing on sugar cane and that helped. Interviewer: “What does sugar cane taste like?” 16:40 Well, it’s pretty good it will give you energy. Bamboo, you get some good water out of bamboo too. We got on the airplanes at Port Moresby, I hate to tell you this, but I was just getting on the airplane to go to that strip I was telling you about and they said, “hand in your hand grenades” and I said, “what do you want our hand grenades for?” “We’ll give you these Australian ones”, so they gave us the Australian ones and I said, “what 4 �happened to ours?” and they didn’t want to tell us, but they were short fuse and I said, “who found that out?” Then I used Australian grenades, they were good grenades too, apparently there was sabotage during the first part of the war, never had any trouble after that. Later on we got a couple of flamethrowers when we were in combat and they wouldn’t shoot from here to the wall. 17:34 They threw them away, every time I guy would take them out he would get killed—mal function. After that we had all good equipment, but the first part, but the F.B.I. knows where those hand grenades were manufactured. You guys, I’ll tell you about Madison Square Garden, when I was a kid we would go to the theater and the RKO news, they would show the American Bund, the Nazi Bund, would fill Madison Square Garden, so we had a lot of sabotage you never heard about. 18:12 I guarantee my hand grenades-- we used Australian hand grenades at the first campaign—ours were short fuse. People don’t like to hear that, but it’s the truth, that’s the way it was. Interviewer: “Can you talk to us about the walk over the mountains? What was that like?” 18:34 It was rough. I’ll tell ya, Dick Oosse, a guy from Grand Rapids, we had been training at Port Moresby a bit and he sprained his ankle quite bad and they shipped him to the hospital. He heard we were moving out and he got out of the hospital, he shouldn’t have, he got with us and when we got going up the mountains it bothered him more and if you got wounded or it you got injured, they would just leave you unless someone volunteered to save you. How could they take you back? 19:05 It would take about 8 guys to carry you back and you couldn’t do that way up in the mountains. New Guinea is like, darn near a continent, it’s as long as Australia or the continental United States, it’s just as long, it’s got mountains 13,000 feet and there’s snow on top of the mountains and a lot of rivers and it’s all jungle. The trails are terrible, sometimes you get on a trail and you climb all day on roots and it’s like climbing up a ladder, hanging on until you get up there to the top. 19:40 Your water supply would be about gone by the time you got up there. A canteen full would be gone so I cut some bamboo and stuck it in my pack too, so I had bamboo and sugar cane. It was rough. 20:00 Dick Oosse, shouldn’t have went there, he didn’t ask for a volunteer, so I stuck with Dick quite well, and he lucked out—he was supposed to be on the other plane to get back and that plane cracked up and just about everybody died in that plane, it never made it to that air strip and that’s a story in it’s own. 20:19 Interviewer: “When you were in the jungle, what was the jungle like specifically?” Oh, your wet all the time, my toenails turned black and fell off and stuff like that. We had leaches and we had all kind of ticks and stuff like that, no mosquito netting and mosquitoes were biting you all the time. I had dingy fever before we went into combat from Port Moresby, you had dingy fever and malaria; I didn’t have it as bad as some guys. I remember Doyle, Skipper Doyle we called him in our company, he had the jungle rot so bad you could see the bones, as big as half dollars. 21:21 I had ring worm so bad it went all around me, ring worm is really bad, it was just a mess. They couldn’t get the right food to you and if you wanted a drink, you dug a hole in the swamp and let it settle for a while and when the black stuff down, you put your cup in there and drink out of the swamp. And there might be bodies buried right around ya. 21:48 I don’t know 5 �how you get through all that stuff I’ll tell you that. It was worse at first, you have to remember that was the first part of the war and we were relieving the Australian 7th Division. Our battalion, they broke up our whole division and our regiment was split up, one battalion went over for 48 days and they were about shot by time they got to combat, they were starved and diseased and everything, but we lucked out, we only had 2 weeks, but it was bad. 22:24 When we got down there, it was nothing but jungle. It was a different situation than Guadalcanal, Guadalcanal they came in and they sat on the high ground and they wanted a defensive position. When we went in the Japs were in the high ground and we were in the jungles, so it was an entirely different situation. Interviewer: “In the jungle, how far can you see in front of you? What was your visibility?” 22:49 Not very far, we had hand grenade battles at night sometimes throwing hand grenades. You didn’t open up your guns until you have a charge, then you open up, otherwise you gave away your position away, so you use knives and machetes and bayonets. I had a Tommy gun and I usually had a machete, my good buddy. A couple good buddies of mine Kalavee and Ed Machoski, they had rifles. Kalavee, he got wounded and later on he got killed in the Philippines, right after I left he went to the Philippines and got killed. 23:29 He is buried right over here at Knapp and Fuller. He was Arabian, half Arabian and his mother was German. His name was Kalavee Kalin, lieutenant, it in the—they got a big Arabian part of the cemetery, it’s interesting to go over there and see all of the tombstones in Arabic, most of them. 23:56 At Knapp and Filler, that cemetery. Interviewer: “So, when your actually in combat, could you see where the Japanese were?” On Sanananda, in Buna there it was hard because the jungle was so thick we had no artillery, we had four 24 pounders Australian and the Japs knocked one of them out one night and we had three of them left and we couldn’t get ammunition half of the time. We had no 81 MM mortars---see, we had to carry all that stuff over the mountains. We had 60MM and the jungle is so thick you can’t fire a mortar because if you do it hits the trees and will come down on you too. 24:47 So you have to be careful. The Japs had what they call a knee mortar, it wasn’t for your knee, they put it in the side of the trench and throw it and there the elevation is a little different, but a mortar will go up in the air and every time you hit a tree, your going to get showered with shrapnel yourself so it’s all hand to hand, grenades---bodies all over the place, they would swell up in a days time and they had the maggots and then there was a big beetle that would come in and feed off of the bodies at night and they would crawl over you at nighttime. 25:28 kind of spooky. Interviewer: “What did that smell like?” In about 3 hours the maggots would be into a body. Interviewer: “How did you take care of the bodies, or didn’t you?” Well, you bury them if you have a chance, but some of them swell up—I seen Japanese laying there that look like a balloon, they swell up right away. 25:51 the Australians had shorts on and their legs, the flesh would be like a Kentucky Fried Chicken. I mean the insides would be gone and you just touch it to pull the body away and it would just 6 �collapse—all it was-the sun on it. They had no grave registration during the first part of the war and when the battle was over they sent in some rakes to clean up the battlefield and we were raking and we didn’t have much to drink and I was down to about 110 pounds from 180 and they had a hole dug and they take Japanese, Australians and American and throw them all in the same hole. We would just take the “dog tags” off and you smell like a dead man yourself. 26:47 They had no grave registration, nothing in those days. After that campaign it was a different story, it was different, you had good equipment, you had everything later on. The first part of the war, we were over there, it was bad news. I don’t think there was another campaign like that one, they starved you to death, Ed Machowski and I used to split a can of “bully beef” if we were lucky. Ed was standing there one day and he had no shoes, I don’t know how I was lucky enough to get shoes, you would have been better off without them I guess, his toenails didn’t rot off like mine. 27:29 He was standing there with a beard and his hair hanging on his—you didn’t scrub your teeth for 3 months you know, nothing, and I said, and they will never believe this, he had burlap for pants, they dropped the supplies in burlap, they didn’t use parachutes in those days, that was the first part of the war. They called them “biscuit bombers”, they come over and throw it out in burlap sacks, so Ed never got a pair of pants. Your pants would fall off of you because all the seams would rot off, so he is standing there, a pair of burlap for pants, no shirt, 2 bandoliers of ammunition, a rifle, his hair hanging down to here and a big beard, I said, “I wish I had a camera, nobody will ever believe this, your an American soldier”. 28:18 I was telling his daughter that a couple of years ago. She stopped up North when I was up there, she said, “my dad never told me those stories”, I said, “he probably never did, but I said, “if we had a camera the American people would never believe you’re an American soldier standing there practically naked, no shoes, no pant, a piece of burlap for pants and hair hanging down”, because you couldn’t shave or nothing. 28:52 I had a nice Vandyke in Port Moresby, before we went into combat and it hung way down to here. I got back to 10th evac hospital eventually and the nurse, after about 3 days I got enough strength to go down and get a haircut and shower and stuff. I was lying in bed and the nurse was looking for me and she said, “I thought you were a 65 year old man, laying there with all that beard”, she couldn’t believe I was the same person. I want to say, some of those nurse they got in that 10th evac hospital, they got bombed every night, a lot of women seen a lot of combat—I mean you get bombed every night, you’re right next to the air-drome. When I was in the hospital they never told me there was a 40MM right next door to me. The airplanes would come over at night and that 40 would open up and I fell off the bunk, you know, into the hole they had dug there for me. 29:47 Interviewer: “How long were you in the hospital for?” Oh, I was there for, I guess, about 2 weeks I think. I got better and they sent us back to Australia again on a boat, we went to Brisbane. We went to a place they call Camp Cable. It seems funny but the first casualty we had was Service Company. Usually Service Company, they are back echelon normally, but we moved up by train from Adelaide up to Brisbane and our Service company got on this boat and they were coming around Melbourne and a Jap sub sunk them. 30:30 Everybody went down with all our supplies, not all of them, but most of them. It’s laying out there in the bottom of the ocean somewhere now off Melbourne Australia. Melbourne was in the news the other 7 �day about—Sidney and Melbourne they are rounding up terrorists, the other day it was in the news. We got—Saidor after that was different, Saidor was dryer, the jungle was in, but we fought along the coast more or less. You put your training into—you’re quite effective if you move around you know. Interviewer: “What was your impression of your commanding officers like?” Well, they had their problems. I’d had a different way of fighting that war, the first part of it. 31:42 Later on they had pretty good strategy, they by-passed the Japs, built up a fermery and let the Japs come to you, which is good, the enemy. I don’t know who come up with that, I don’t know if MacArthur came up with that or somebody else, I don’t know. The first part of the war when we were in there, he told the Australians too he said, “If you stand back and say you haven’t got any causalities, you got to have causalities to know your doing something”, that was his main focus, causalities. He didn’t say, “How many of the enemy did you kill?” He would ask, “how many causalities did you have?” Interviewer: “Did you know anyone from your regiment that was in WWI? Did you get to meet any of those?” Ya, down in Louisiana they did, but they wouldn’t let them go overseas, they were too old. I Company had a Captain Barclay, he is buried over at Knapp and Fuller too. 32:46 they kept those guys for training, we had a Lieutenant that was about 45 or 50 years old and he was a “sharpie”, that guy was like one of these movie actors and I enjoyed being inspected by him, he was so sharp, but he was too old, they wouldn’t let him go overseas so they kept those guys to train other people in the states, which is a good thing, because they had a lot of experience. Colonel Hayes, he was too old, they didn’t take him either, he was a regimental commander, some of those guard officers were just too old, so they never went overseas. Another thing, when we went overseas half our outfit was draftees, we got to Frisco and they brought a whole bunch of guys right out of training and put them in our outfit, they had no experience at all except basic training. 33:44 When we went overseas half of our division was draftees or they might have been volunteers too you know. Interviewer: “How often did you see replacements come in?” Oh, when we got back to Australia there was only 10% of us left, so we had a big influx, we got some Australian “90 day wonders” that didn’t know how to read a compass. I said, the colonel liked to pick on Lieutenants and these 2 new Lieutenants come in, 2nd Lieutenants, they call them “90 day wonders”, that’s all the training they got, they were nice guys. If you’re a college graduate and come in you become an officer no matter what, see. 34:36 The colonel liked to pick on Lieutenants and he said, “I want a big compass course, and a good one”, they looked at each other and they never set up a compass course, if they had been a Boy Scout, they would know how to do it. I said, “no problem, I’ll set one up”, so we set one up and I said, “were going to make it difficult, even for the Colonel”, so we set it up and they learned how to do it and that was college graduates and so the Colonel was patting them on the back afterwards for the good job they did and they said, ‘Sergeant come over to the officers club in the back” and they 8 �gave me a couple of great big jugs of beer. They were so happy, the Colonel patting them on the back and telling them what a good job they did. 35:28 Interviewer: “You were a Sergeant then?” Ya, they only had one non com in 2 section and that was me, K.K. is buried over here, he went to O.C.S and his dad kept saying,” how come everybody back in the states is Sergeants and Corporals and all that stuff?” I was the only non com until I was about ready to go sacrifice myself, so they promoted me, they needed me, but some of those guys had been in there for years and never got to Corporal or Sergeant or nothing. Now days you get stripes all over the place. 36:06 Interviewer: “After you were in Australia for a while, what was it like being back from the campaign in Buna, what was the experience like?” They call it the “Gold Coast” now, but by Brisbane there was a big dog racetrack and they put up the camp there and they fed us real good. We would go to the beach everyday and go swimming and run up and down and I got right back up to 180. When you’re young guys, you will get back, but if you wanted to get out of the service, all you had to do was go out and drink a lot and that malaria will hit you just like that, but I wasn’t ready to do that. 36:45 You wind up driving a truck someplace in Australia . A friend of mine went home after Buna, the first campaign, in fact, he came to see me last summer, he passed away, he was a—he taught school at Traverse City High School and he said he used to read, but they sent him home, malaria and dingy fever and stuff, jungle rot. 37:10 We got back in pretty good shape and then we had a big influx of recruits. We went from Australia , after we got them a little training, we went there to Milne Bay, it’s on the map I showed ya, at Milne Bay we practiced a little jungle training there, we got a big Python, it must have been 20 feet long, it was the biggest one. Earl DeVormer actually killed it and we drug that thing back and it was heavy, boy. I killed a Python on Goodenough Island, when we left there and went to Goodenough Island, but it was a small one. 37:55 After you kill them, they still wrap around, I had it wrap around my right arm and I had the head like that and I walked in the first tent and the first Sergeant and another guy were in the tent there and they Jumped back and said, “VanHammen, you know that thing might have scrub typhus and if you get scrub typhus you might as well kiss yourself goodbye”, it was that bad. 38:22 It had me worried, I found some G.I. soap and went down and took a bath. I went outside and I threw that thing up in the air, they were playing cards and they had a can of gas going, they had a blanket out there and they were playing cards, the guys, and I threw it right next to them and those guys went scattering all over the place. One of the guys was from New York and he had never seen a snake in his life you know, and I think he wanted to kill me to tell the truth. 38:52 Interviewer: “When did you find out that you were going back into battle?” Right aster Goodenough Island there. We were training—on Goodenough Island you had the First Marine Division, my uncle was in that, in the 32nd. Goodenough Island is just south of Guadalcanal and we were trained in jungle warfare there. 39:21 I’ll tell you my uncle was a Warrant Officer and he was looking for me and I said, “you mean you couldn’t find me? I was back in the jungle and you guys were sitting up on the beach”, I kidded him after the war. We went from there we got on destroyers, 1st World War 9 �destroyers. Before the war broke out and before we got into it, Roosevelt gave 50 of them to England. They were old 4 stackers, they made one stack out of them, but we used them over in the Pacific, they put Higgins boats on them and you got on them and your going in the first wave, so we got on them and we headed for Saidor and luckily we landed where-- if we had landed 5 miles down the beach we would have had an awful time, we landed in the right spot. 40:16 There were Japanese there, but they all took off. They were like Quartermasters or something and they were cooking breakfast and the fires were still going the holes and we had a good landing there, the Higgins boats come in. They were made out of Plywood and bullets would go right through them, so we lucked out on that. That is the only time I went in on the first wave, we lucked out, I was lucky on that one. 40:42 Before the day got over we had a good battle though, because we had a guy named--- a lawyer from town, he was a National Guard and one of the best officers. He was a little crazy in a way, guys were scared of him, but he’d walk around, bullets flying, how he ever survived, but I was glad he had this big patrol and we went out right away, a combat patrol, to find out where the Japs were. We had a little accident; I killed more Japanese that day than I killed in my life. I killed 15 of them at least. 41:21 We went across the Mott River and my S2 section were out in front and we ran into a patrol just as we got beyond the river and there was a squad of Japanese sitting, taking a break, smoking, they were sitting against the trees and they had their guns there and some of them took off running without their guns. I had a Tommy gun, a 45 and you hit somebody running leaning over, a 45 will just peel their back right off, a 45 caliber. We left them dead and Captain Johnson said, “we gotta move on because we gotta get this perimeter set up before dark, so we took right off, we just left them lay. Usually we check them all off, check their pockets for information and stuff, but we just kept right on going. It was a good thing we did, we set up this perimeter and Johnson was an S2 officer, I was a non-com and he was the officer. Bill Johnson, he survived the war, I don’t know how, but he did and he’s a lawyer in town here. When he was in the National Guard he was a lawyer. Him and John Shirley was two---John Shirley didn’t survive, they would walk around, bullets flying, Shirley never made it, he got killed with an Australian artillery observer the same day, but Johnson, he survived, two of those officers—it was nice to be brave, but don’t be overly brave. 42:59 We set up a perimeter and the Captain said, “VanHammen”, meantime going across the river, Carl, he’s from Grand Rapids and he came over to visit me the other day, he was a radio man and we heard these airplanes coming and ours were just as dangerous as the Japanese because were out 2 miles in front of our line see and any movement, they would strafe you, so we hollered, “Carl get outa that river” and he slipped on a rock and went in with our radio and that was the end of our communications, so the Captain said, we’ll set up this perimeter down in the village where we were supposed to go and he said, “VanHammen, you get back here and make sure that barge comes in with our equipment”, because we had no mortars or machine guns with us, they were all on that barge, not barge but, landing craft, I should put it that way. 44:00 I get back there and Carl’s trying to get the radio going on the beach and I said, “you haven’t got a hole yet, the Japs are attacking, we better get a hole, if they break through, you and I will have to fight them out here”. We took out helmets off and dug in the beach, you could dig a hole in a hurry, I just it dug and I see that landing craft come around with our equipment on it and the Japs down the way opened up with a 30 caliber on that and it had a metal ramp in front and I was out 10 �there waving to get them in like a dummy. 44:36 They see me and they haul off that 50 caliber search—Carl and I on the beach, it is a good thing we had those holes we dug and I said, “idiots”, they call it friendly fire and I call it idiot fire, so the Japs are firing at us from one way and those idiots are out there firing at us with a 50 caliber. Now you know a Japanese wouldn’t be out there waving to get you in like that, but they pulled away and left us, so the Captain came back pretty soon and he said, “VanHammen, it’s going to be dark pretty soon, take a man and get back and tell them the situation”, we were about 2 ½ miles in front of our line. There was a guy standing there with a Tommy gun, I wish I knew his name, he was from K Company, we had a company K Company, we had a section with machine guns without their machine guns, mortars, M Company and our S2 section. 45:39 Captain Johnson was in charge, so I took this guy along, he had a Tommy gun and I had one and I figured if we get in a scrap it will throw out lead, so I walked down the beach and we cut into the jungle and then we got back on the trail and I said,” it’s going to be dark pretty soon”, I had maps, that’s one thing about being in S2, at Buna we didn’t have maps, it was too early in the war. We had good maps, I think I got them at home and I took them out of a water proof bag I kept them in, I set a spot down and I said, “now keep your eyes open”, I memorized all the villages we would go through and I knew we had to cross the Mott River and how many creeks, I tried to memorize it, but it gets dark I can’t use the maps, so I just spotted down and he said, “Japs”, so 2 of them come out with packs and their rifle on there and I said, “shoot the son’s a bitches”, so he shot them. 46:41 I was sitting down when he shot and killed both of them and I said, “they might be the head, we gotta get back”, so we went back into the jungle and walked along the jungle again and come back on the trail and it’s “spooky” I’m telling ya, at night. You don’t know when you’re going to get ambushed or when you’re going to run into a patrol. We crossed the Mott River and we got back. The most “spooky” part, you get back to your own lines and these trigger-happy guys back there are liable to shoot ya. 47:07 We had a, I forgot what it was, we hollered a word out and they repeated it and we got back and Major Huggins said, “VanHammen, you take L Company out the next day and go down there first thing in the morning and help them out”. I went down there with them and in the meantime they had moved back to the Mott River and set up another perimeter around that, so we didn’t go all the way back there. That one particular day, I eliminated more enemy than any day, I still remember those guys so close to you looking at us over their backs like that with their rifles slung on when we shot them. 48:04 Interviewer: “Did you ever take any Japanese soldiers prisoner at all?” At Morotai we did, that was the easiest campaign we were in, here was an officer coming down on a bamboo raft, we were on patrol and they spotted us and 2 natives jumped in the water and the Japanese officer, he swam to the other shore and started to get up and we got him in the leg and went over and captured him. We called up and told them we had a Japanese officer and they said, “we’ll send out a PT boat”, at that time it was real calm and by the time the PT boat got there, we had this Japanese officer in a dugout canoe and the waves started going and we darn near lost him. 48:56 We dragged him into that PT boat, we were next to that---we were in a dugout canoe you know, with an outrigger on it, thank goodness. That is the only one personally that I got, most of them we shot. One time I felt real bad, I was searching a guy we had killed, a Japanese, and I pulled out his book you know and he had been drawing pictures of leaves, so he must 11 �have been thinking of home. 49:26 It makes you feel like the enemy is more human. Before, the Japanese won’t give up; they just pull a grenade and blow you and them up too—suicide. Then I started to feel like they were human beings you know. 49:46 For security they had a tennis shoe like and it had a split toe and you see that, it didn’t look human, you see it in the mud, see their tracks you know. In Saidor I found there headquarters later on. I remember when those Japs come out, so they had the Japanese moved out by that time, moved back in farther. 50:12 They vacated, there were a few of them running around yet, but most of them left. I knew where those Japanese come out, so I went back and I was looking for their trail and I couldn’t find it and I said, “their using the creek”, so I looked in the creek and sure enough I could see one of those foot prints. What they do when they get to the creek—they get off the main trail and get in and walk in the creek and then they go up, I went down about 150 feet or so and then I see a nice trail going down, so my S2 section and I went down and we found their headquarters. 50:45 Apparently the Colonel or whoever, had a beautiful great big—one of these chairs all made out of bamboo, it was really nice and they had buried everything, the Japanese, so they figured they were coming back. They had bugles laying around there and stuff, so I piddled back to the headquarters and Major Huggins said, “VanHammen, take L Company again”, so I had the Captain getting mad at a Sergeant going down and taking him out. I took them down there and showed them how they got in there and I educated the guys about Japs using those streams instead of making a path. Went back there and those guys are finding souvenirs like mad, digging. Watches, they buried everything; they figured they were coming back, the Japanese. All the souvenirs those guys got outa there. The only thing I come back with—I know Ed Machowski, how he ever got that sword back I’ll never know, but he got it back home. He got it to Australia and he had some Australian send it back to Grand Rapids. 51:56 He had a Japanese sword, all I came back with was a Japanese flag. I had a lot of them; you could sell them for 10 pounds to the Navy and stuff. Interviewer: “How did the natives help you?” Very helpful, I never seen one that liked the Japanese at all because they treated them like dirt and the Japanese—the natives were different, the ones along the coast were—they had a little education, they did a lot of trading and stuff, but the ones up in the mountains were still headhunters and I go to a village and I want a “tu tu” or a “Luawe”, they run the-- when I wanted a couple boys to go with the patrol, I would pick them up that way. 52:56 I can’t remember too much pigeon English anymore. They carried our wounded out, they would never go in towards the front because if they hear one shot, they just drop the stretcher and the guy would be in worse shape than ever. It would take you a long time to get back to where they had good—they had one poor intern, I felt sorry for him, the only doctor we had and he was intern too, a young guy. 53:26 We would go out on patrol and we come back, they say, “take this wounded man back”, so we take him back and we got back with this guy from K company, a machine gunner and they had 45’s and he still had his 45 on there and the doctor had a rusty knife and he went to put that on the wounded guys leg and he pulled out that 45 and said, “doc, don’t put that rusty knife on me or I’ll blow you away”, that doctor, that little intern, was shaking so-- I said, “put that damn gun away” and I thought he was going to put formaldehyde, no anti-bacteria material on there. That poor doctor, I felt so sorry for him with all those wounded lying 12 �around there. 54:25 Then they go back to a station, I don’t know how they call it a hospital, a staging area more or less, one time we get back there and they bombed it a couple of times, you put a red cross out there and it is just a target. They had an airstrip there and they took you back to Port Moresby, 10th evac hospital. I weighed 120 after 3 days back getting a haircut and everything, they weighed me and said, ‘you must have weighed about 110, I weighed 180 when I went there, I was 5’11”, I was a pretty good size guy. 55:06 I was in really bad shape, but it don’t take long when your young to get back in shape again. If they give you good food and your in the right place, we were in the “Gold Coast’ of Australia, near Brisbane Australia. By that time, I bet ya, 90% replacements; by the time we went to Saidor. There were only a few of us left, National Guard. Interviewer: “By the time you got tto the end of your service, did you notice, were the Japanese any worse?” They were starting to give up a little bit towards the end of the war. 55:54 Surrender, but they didn’t surrender during the first part-- suicidal attack. Interviewer: “During the end their behavior was different?” They probably saw the hand writing on the wall, it was coming to a close. I want to say something about the Air Force, the 5th Air force, if it wasn’t for them, I wouldn’t be here today, but none of us would a been here, if they got fresh troops into Buna we would have been done for, but the 5th air force, the would fly out of Port Moresby every day. The Australian Air Force too, they had Australians used a lot of Bofit bombers and Bofit fighters and P40’s, that was an American plane, the Australians had a lot of them. 56:48 In fact on one airstrip they had a big junkyard where they piled the P40’s, it was a touchy place to land on those metal strips you know. They were a “tail dragger”, the P39’s was a tricycle landing gear. The Australian Air force and our 5th Air force saved us, they sunk a whole convoy coming in, replacements, the Japs couldn’t get replacements, they got a few in by barges, but that was all. 57:36 If they had got a fresh division in there, we would have been wiped out, we were in such bad shape, we were starving to death really. Everybody said,” I thought you came out of a concentration camp”, no we were just in combat. I wish I had a camera though, we didn’t have any cameramen with us, it was too rough and they had one when we went over the mountains, he took a few pictures and he just disappeared. Interviewer: “ Did you notice when things started to go really well? Were there any signs that the Americans might be winning?” Oh, ya, we landed in Saidor and Hitapi and those places and you know it was going pretty good for us. Air Force, that’s the main thing, the Air force. Whoever controlled the air had the upper hand really. Now the Coral Sea battle, we were going overseas and it broke out, we were headed for Brisbane and landed in Adelaide—now that was a toss up, they were headed for Port Moresby or Australia see, so now the Australians, that’s a holiday in Australia, the Coral Sea Battle. 58:58 They figure that saved them. I’ll say one thing, the second world war, the Navy took a beating too, there were a lot of casualties and the Korean war was easy on them and the first world was, but in the 2nd world war, the Navy took a beating, I mean they lost a lot of people. I’ll tell you 13 �something, we were going out of Brisbane to Port Moresby, we were on a liberty ship and I said to a Navy guy, “what happened to that ship?” There was a half of a liberty ship there and he said, “the other half is out in the Coral Sea” and I said, “that’s where we’re going” and he said, “ya”. 59:40 We ran into a, you call them hurricanes over here, storm at night, everything went overboard, a typhoon they call them over there and over here they call them hurricanes and I thought we were done for because they had 500 pound bombs in the bottom of the ship, they had 10x2’s laying on top of that and they had 3 Australian tanks on top of that, old Grant tanks. The Australians were in a harbor boat they brought up from Port Moresby, and a big boom went and it pushed them right off in the sea. They were in this little boat and the Australian Corvettes picked them up and how they did it, I’ll never know. I thought we were going down for sure because I kept thinking of that half a ship sitting in Port Moresby. “Are we going to be down the drink?” Interviewer: “So what was you estimate of the Japanese soldiers ability to fight when you faced them?” Oh, they were suicidal I mean, ya, very good, you pick up a lot of casualties that way too you know too. 1:03 I was surprised in Saidor I caught so many of them napping, but that’s the way it goes once in a while. 1:16 It’s a lot of luck if you survive. I got those maps from Saidor yet and I took them out to show Carl the other day and I put them on the table and they were in a waterproof bad, you had to, they didn’t have plastic, they had rubber to keep your maps dry. I still got those maps from Saidor, I should have them displayed someplace. I figure those maps saved my life in that deal because I sat down and if I hadn’t squatted down and looked at the maps and told the other guy, “keep your eyes open” the Japs would have walked back of us and killed us, just luck. 2:03 Interviewer: “Your mentioned earlier “pigeon English”, what’s pigeon English?” That’s what they use on the islands, all the islands. Every village has their own dialect or language, so they had to have some way to trade back and forth, so they developed a pigeon English, bush was jungle and dee-wy was tree and leuwy was the chief and tu-tu was the medicine man, your always in charge of the village. 2:43 I use to be able to rattle it off real good, but it’s been 60 years now. I tell my grand kids the only foreign language I know is pigeon English and they laugh at me. Interviewer: “When did you know that you yourself were coming out of the war?” Morotai, I went back, you come back on points, so much time in combat, so much time overseas, so much time in the army. I had full points, I come back from Morotai that was the easiest campaign I was in, after we captured that one Jap and darn near drowned that Jap officer. Later on they had a heck of a battle there, it was in the Helmahera group of Morotai, Morotai was, Helmahera is a big island and we were on this small islands, pretty good size, it had rivers and stuff and we flew from there, I had points, we flew from there to Behak Island and from Behak Island we flew from there to Milne Bay. 3:56 I spent a week there looking for a ship and here comes an old British rust bucket, that was the only thing available and they put us on that and we got on that ship and we had no food, so we went down the coast to Finschaven, they put food on there and it was all full of bugs, so I had Christmas on that rust bucket, it stalled 5 times, it broke down 5 14 �times there in the ocean, no escort. 4:20 I said, “the only reason we survived the Japs was they looked at that thing and said,” it ain’t worth a torpedo, that rust bucket”.” I said when I came back, “I went over on a luxury liner and came back on a rust bucket”. Interviewer: “When did you hear about the bomb? What did you think?” I was back in the states by that time. I got back at the states and they looked at my record and said, “no more infantry for you”. I was in the hospital and they said, “do you want the air corps or the artillery?” I said, “it don’t matter, I only got 6 months to go”. 4:54 They put me in the artillery and sent me to Fort Devins, the best—in fact it was such a good life I darn near stayed in the army, If I made more money I would have. It was a beautiful fort, Fort Devins, no Fort Sill. If you ever go south to Oklahoma, stop there, it’s where they kept Geranimo and they have a museum there with artillery from every war, Japanese artillery, German, they got a big museum there. Three of us started to run a big motor pool and one of us could actually run it unless you had to give driving lessons. 5:42 We had some people that didn’t know how to drive and it would drive you crazy trying to teach them how to double clutch when they didn’t know anything about a car. That was the best duty I ever had in the service. Interviewer: “Now you’re back in America and you hear about the Atomic Bomb in Japan and you know the war is over, what was the first thing that went through your mind?” It was hard to believe, ya. I had been working already—the fire department, the guys— some guy out there, he had just got drafted, a big heavy set guy and the guy in the engine house said, “that guys never been overseas or nothing, how come you don’t go?” and I said, “I don’t have a uniform anymore, I’m with the fire department, why would I go out there?” That’s when I heard--I was already working. 6:31 I come back and I was out of the service one week and I had a job. I never took any government money, you could just goof off for I don’t know how many days and the government would pay and you could just take your time, but I thought, “I’ll find a good job” and I was 37 ½ year in the fire department. 6:53 It was kind of an exciting life too, I enjoyed that too. Sometimes, they didn’t have masks in those days, a couple of times I darn near quit and I said, “how did they stand this?” I’ve been in the infantry 5 years and I come back and kill myself in the fire department. Interviewer: “Had Grand Rapids changed, that you noticed, from the time you left and the time you came back? Had it changed at all?” Quite a bit, ya. My dad met me at the train and he said, “some blonde had hold of me, was dragging me off and he could hardly get her arm off”. I’ll tell you a funny thing— she was down at the Morton House, so I give her my phone number apparently, so she called me up the next day and said, “why don’t you come down?” and I said, “I can’t come down there, I haven’t seen my folks in 5 years”, so she calls me the next day, my grandparents-- my uncle got killed in the Philippines, he was 4 years older than me, but he was like a brother. He got killed in the Philippines and my grandparents wanted to see me and she called me up again and I said, “I gotta see my grandparents”, she probably said, “all the guys on the train and I pick a nut that want to see his grandparents better than he wants to see me”. I still think about that and laugh. She thought, “I sure picked a 15 �dandy, he would rather so out with his grandmother than me”, 8:28 After Buna we went back and there was training, it was in the valley out by Camp Cable. They had barbed wire and you crawl under the wire and they’d shoot machine gun fire over ya and they would blow up stuff so you would get used to combat, see. We looked up and here comes 3 big limousines, black, with MacArthur’s flags on the front and that’s when I lost respect for him, he made our Colonel look bad. I felt sorry for our Colonel, so our Colonel starts going up the hill, MacArthur gets out and puts that corncob pipe in his mouth, he wouldn’t look at us at all, he stared off in space. 9:17 They took his picture-our poor Colonel just about got there, if he had spent 2 or 3 minutes more, he could have shook his hand and said, “your doing a good job”, but he didn’t do it. They took off in those 3 limousines and left our Colonel with all the guys laughing at the Colonel, I felt sorry for him myself, you don’t make a fool out of your fellow officer. I lost respect for that man right there, I said. The next day the Brisbane paper headlines said, “MacArthur reviews troops” and he never looked at us. You don’t make your fellow officer, a Colonel look bad. That burned me up right there. 10:02 Interviewer: “Well, I think we have come to the end here and I want to thank you, a lot of good stuff”. I’m still paralyzed here from that stroke I had. Frank Boring: Great story, great, great stuff. 10:30 . 16 �17 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanHammenR Title A name given to the resource Van Hammen, Robert (Interview transcript and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Hammen, Robert Description An account of the resource Robert Van Hammen enlisted in the Michigan National Guard in 1940, and served in the intelligence section of the 126th Infantry Regiment, 32nd (Red Arrow) Division until 1945. He trained with his unit in Louisiana, and then was shipped first to the East Coast and then back across the country to go to Australia and on to New Guinea. He saw extensive combat in a series of battles in New Guinea and the Philippines, and his account includes detailed descriptions of the physical aspects of war in a jungle, as well as of several of the battles in which he served. His interview is featured in the documentary Nightmare in new Guinea produced aby Grand Valley State University. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Bush, Dan (Interviewer) Vredeveld, Chris (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-11-11 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/31f53d486d585b57fbfba527872b82cd.mp4 9bef01c3119a56af2decbde7462dc024 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/81077ac490d4e1d8cea2164135719f3d.pdf e040831d030f6207bb3cb07440ea42d6 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Craig Van Hout Vietnam War Interview Length: (01:58:09:00) Pre-enlistment / Training: (00:00:10:00)  Van Hout was born in Green Bay, Wisconsin on September 24th, 1949 and he grew up in Green Bay, where his father worked for the post office, first as a postal clerk, then as a personnel manager in Green Bay, before retiring as a post master in Manitowoc, Wisconsin (00:00:10:00)  Van Hout attended an all-boys Catholic high school in Green Bay and after he graduated from high school, attended the University of Wisconsin, Oshkosh (00:00:37:00) o Van Hout stayed at the university for three semesters before the university "asked" him to leave (00:00:49:00)  Van Hout left college in January 1969 and was called for his draft physical at the end of February (00:01:08:00) o Once Van Hout left college, he figured that he was going to be drafted; although he hoped to make it through another semester of school then attend a different college, the draft board had the mentality that young men attending college were doing so to avoid the draft and if the young men flunked out, then the draft board was ready to scoop them up (00:01:42:00)  At the time he was drafted, Van Hout knew a fair amount about the fighting in Vietnam; his family always kept up on the news (00:02:10:00) o As well, Van Hout’s high school had a junior ROTC program that Van Hout was a part of for three years (00:02:32:00)  At that time, the cadre of the program were active duty personnel and the major in charge of the program had to deliver death notices to local families; every so often, in the middle of the class, the major would take a phone call then return to the class ashen-faced and say he would have to visit a family that afternoon (00:02:49:00)  Although Van Hout did not necessarily want to be drafted, like everyone else, he had three options: go into the Army, go to Canada, or go to jail; to Van Hout, going into the Army was the palatable option (00:03:30:00)  When Van Hout went for his physical, there were other men who were actively trying to get out of having to serve, doing things such as taking certain things to cause their blood pressure to spike (00:03:55:00) o However, if there was a physical anomaly and the men giving the examination thought it was suspicious, they would send the man to the local YMCA for a couple of days, then test him again (00:04:13:00) o Van Hout has terrible vision and when it was time for him to do the vision part of the physical, he was told to take off his glasses, looking into the machine, and tell what he saw; the best Van Hout could do was tell there was light on inside of the machine (00:04:53:00) �   After Van Hout left Vietnam and was at Fort Hood, Texas, he started getting serious headaches because his glasses prescription was not strong enough; Van Hout visited the eye doctor on the base and when the doctor asked what Van Hout’s MOS and Van Hout said infantry, the doctor said he should not have been in the infantry with his eyesight (00:05:12:00) Van Hout was sent to Fort Campbell, Kentucky for his basic training (00:05:46:00) o For the most part, the training at Fort Campbell was based around discipline; the instructors conditioned the men to react to certain situations as opposed to just sitting and trying to decide what to do (00:06:01:00) o The men did another of marching and physical training to get themselves into better physical condition, as well as a lot of marksmanship training (00:06:20:00) o Adjusting to life in the military was not a problem for Van Hout; the three years of junior ROTC helped because Van Hout had become familiar with loudmouthed sergeants and all the bluster that accompanied them (00:06:37:00)  As well, Van Hout had a cousin who was the same age who had gone into the service directly out of high school and the cousin offered Van Hout the advice to try and make it through basic training without Van Hout’s drill instructor knowing his name (00:06:58:00)  Van Hout tried to stay in the back and be a face in the crowd, doing what he was told (00:07:14:00)  Other men would come in and confront the drill instructor and Van Hout was happy to let them do that, because that placed the other men the spotlight of the drill instructors (00:07:21:00) o There were a fair number of college graduates going through basic training alongside Van Hout (00:07:53:00)  Close to 50% of the men Van Hout trained with were either draftees or volunteers for the draft; as well, there were some men who were arrested and given the choice of either the Army or jail (00:08:02:00)  There was also a fair number of National Guardsmen and Reservists, who were often the men who complained the most; this annoyed Van Hout because all the men were doing was going through six months of training before going home (00:08:24:00)  Van Hout stayed in a room with two other men, one of whom was an eighteen-year-old kid who had the Army or jail option; the other man had been only six months away from being too old to be drafted (00:08:48:00) After Van Hout finished basic training, the Army sent him to Fort Polk, Louisiana, although Van Hout has to restrain himself from calling it Fort Puke (00:10:27:00) o The base was called “Little Vietnam” and was located in the swamps of southern Louisiana (00:10:41:00) o Staying at the base did not make for good preparation for Vietnam because all the men knew, based on their infantry MOS, that they were going to Vietnam, which gave them a defeatist attitude (00:11:05:00) o The training was designed so that once the men got into certain situations, they reacted instead of thinking about their options (00:11:41:00) o Although some of the drill instructors during basic training had already served tours in Vietnam, the company instructors at Fort Polk were “shake and bake” �  sergeants who needed some leadership experience as part of their own training and had not yet been to Vietnam (00:12:08:00)  However, the individual instructors for the various aspects of the training, such as bayonet training and camouflage, had served in Vietnam (00:13:17:00) o Van Hout was at Fort Campbell from July until the beginning of September and was then at Fort Polk from September until the first part November (00:13:44:00)  Although there were several times at Fort Campbell when training was canceled due to heat, that never happened at Fort Polk; instead, a couple of times, the men went into the field and in the mornings, there would be frost on the ground (00:14:03:00) o Part of the training was compass and map reading courses and during those, the men would actually go into the swamp (00:14:33:00)  During one of the courses, Van Hout’s group was walking along a small stream when the man in front of Van Hout stepped on a water moccasin; the men went one way and the snake went the other (00:14:50:00) o The men received training to recognize enemy booby-traps, although where Van Hout ended up serving, he did not run into too many of them (00:15:20:00) o The men received some training in how to enter and exit helicopters in a landing zone as well as riding in an APC (Armored Personnel Carrier) (00:15:46:00)  The men were placed inside the APC, which then proceeded to drive over an obstacle course going between 30 and 40 mph; the men bounced around so much that when the men got out, the stock of his M-16 was twisted at a 45-angle from where it should have been (00:16:08:00) o The men were taught how to use the various weapons that were available; at Fort Campbell, Van Hout had trained with the M-14 rifle, with only a week using the M-16 but at Fort Polk, the M-16 was his primary weapon (00:16:39:00)  Van Hout and the other men were also introduced to the M-79 grenade launcher, the M-60 machine gun, the .50 caliber machine gun, and various other weapons and equipment the soldiers would use, such as claymore mines (00:17:13:00) Once he finished at Fort Polk, Van Hout went home of leave for two weeks before going to San Francisco, California for processing over to Vietnam (00:17:37:00) o By that time, Van Hout had been out of high school for about three years, so anyone from then was already gone and Van Hout did not really have any friends left at home (00:18:06:00) o Instead, Van Hout spent the leave with his family and relatives before heading to San Francisco (00:18:24:00) From San Francisco, Van Hout and the other men flew aboard a chartered airplane over to Vietnam (00:18:32:00) o After leaving San Francisco, the airplane first flew to Anchorage, Alaska to refuel before flying to Japan (00:18:36:00)  During the flight across the Pacific to Japan, the airplane hit an air pocket, which caused the airplane to suddenly plummet (00:18:55:00) �o When the airplane arrived in Japan, it refueled again before flying into Vietnam; although there were some men making jokes during the flight, as the airplane approached Bien Hoa in Vietnam, the cabin became real quiet (00:19:25:00) Vietnam Deployment (00:19:55:00)  Van Hout’s first impression of Vietnam was that when the airplane crew opened the door and the men walked outside, it stunk (00:19:55:00) o There was a very distinct odor, a mixture of a dirty bathroom and cow manure (00:20:01:00)  As Van Hout and the other newly arrived men walked away from the airplane, the men who were waiting to board the airplane to go home were standing in another line and were giving cat calls to the new arrivals (00:20:18:00)  Once off the airplane, Van Hout and the other men went through a processing center in Bien Hoa (00:20:48:00) o While Van Hout was at the processing center, he and a large group of other infantrymen were taken aside and placed on guard duty around the perimeter of the camp for between one and two weeks (00:21:03:00)  However, Van Hout did not actually have to stand guard duty during the night; instead, he and another soldier were issued shotguns and they rode in a jeep with a senior NCO and his driver to close up all the clubs on the base every night (00:21:23:00)  Some of the other soldiers heard wishful rumors that the men were going to do that their entire tour; however, Van Hout took those rumors with a grain of salt (00:22:47:00)  One of the wake-up calls Van Hout had about being in Vietnam was when he and the other three soldiers were watching a Filipino USO band sing about the “gleen, gleen grass of home” (00:23:01:00)  Eventually, it became time for Van Hout and the other men to be reassigned to their permanent units (00:23:42:00) o An NCO with a clipboard and began reading off names alphabetically, with a set number of men going to one unit and a set number going to another unit, another set going to another unit, etc. (00:23:47:00)  When he got to the final group, including Van Hout, the NCO said that the last thirteen “ poor son of a b****es were going to the 101st”; the 101st Airborne Division was stationed very close to the DMZ and were surrounded by enemies, which meant a very high probability of the men getting into fights with the enemy (00:24:03:00)  Van Hout was assigned to the 101st around the middle part of December 1969 (00:24:37:00) o Van Hout and the other men assigned to the 101st went to the airfield in Bien Hoa, threw their duffle bags on the floor of the C-130 transport and sat down on their duffle bags because the C-130 did not have any seats for them (00:24:54:00)  The flight up to the 101st landed at Phu Bai, which was next to the main base where the 101st’s headquarters were, Camp Eagle (00:25:26:00)  Once Van Hout and the other men arrived at Camp Eagle, they went through additional processing (00:25:37:00) �  o While Van Hout was going through processing, a clerk pointed out to Van Hout that although he had been promoted from E-1 to E-2 at the end of basic training, Van Hout had yet to receive his back pay; the clerk told Van Hout to buy him a soda and he would fix the problem (00:25:44:00)  One of the interesting things Van Hout remembers was that when he and the other men were first paid during basic training, they were paid in cash, with a lieutenant carrying around a brief case and every man waiting his turn (00:26:21:00)  When Van Hout received his money, he saw that for his first month in the Army, he had received $79, which Van Hout thought was extremely low (00:26:38:00) Van Hout and the other men were only at Camp Eagle for a day or two before being sent to Camp Evans, where they went through a week of additional orientation and refresher training before being assigned to a unit (00:26:55:00) o This training was geared towards what the men would be experiencing in Vietnam and consisted of repelling, instruction on Vietnamese culture and Vietnamese language, and a refresher of what the men went through during basic training and advanced training (00:27:21:00) o At this point, Van Hout still did not know which specific unit he was being assigned to; he learned that information once the additional week of training was finished (00:28:04:00) Once the additional training was over, Van Hout was assigned to “B” Company, 2nd (Battalion) of the 506th Infantry (Regiment) (00:28:13:00) o At the time, B Company was located on the opposite side of Camp Evans from where Van Hout went through the additional training (00:28:21:00)  Although the barracks were the company was staying had been there for a while, the company itself was only there on stand-down; Van Hout believes that just before he arrived, the company had gotten into a large fight and were at Camp Evans to refit and get new resources and bodies into the company to fill any vacant spots (00:28:44:00) o Although Van Hout had the classic deer-in-the-headlights look when he arrived at the company, he does not remember any harassment from the other soldiers in the company (00:29:14:00) o When Van Hout and the other men arrived at the area, they had to go to the battalion and turn in all their clothes except for what was on their backs as well as do more paperwork; the men were then issued the equipment they were going to need, such as their rucksacks and supplies (00:29:47:00) o There was a bunch of soldiers assigned to B Company at the same times as Van Hout, enough that the company commanders made an entire platoon out of the new soldiers (00:30:15:00)  Although the vast majority of the men in the platoon were new soldiers, the platoon’s lieutenant had been in Vietnam for a while and two of the NCO squad leaders had been in Vietnam for a few months (00:30:31:00)  As well, there were usually three or four soldiers in each squad who had been in Vietnam for several months; apart from those soldiers, plus the �  two NCOs and the lieutenant, everyone else in the platoon was a newlyarrived soldier (00:30:45:00) o In total, B Company had four platoons and each platoon numbered roughly twenty to twenty-five soldiers per platoon (00:31:09:00)  However, those numbers soon dwindled because the company never had four platoons after that (00:31:15:00) o Van Hout and the other men were in the week-long orientation training over the week of Christmas and were assigned to their companies between Christmas and New Year's (00:31:35:00)  As part of the stand-down, the entire company was going through additional training, so once Van Hout and the other men joined the company, the company went outside of Camp Evans to a rifle range for marksmanship training as well as traversing a nearby creek (00:31:58:00) o Van Hout remembers that the company first went into the field on the Sunday that the Super Bowl was played in 1970; the game was playing on the Armed Forces radio and Van Hout remembers hearing the broadcast when he went into the supply room to get some equipment he needed in the field (00:32:27:00) o In the time the company was stationed on Camp Evans, Van Hout does not remember that camp itself coming under much enemy fire; the camp took sporadic enemy rocket fire but that was it (00:32:58:00) The very first time the company went into the field, on Super Bowl Sunday, the men actually walked out the back gate of Camp Evans and headed into the lowlands west of the camp (00:33:31:00) o The company went into the lowlands because the area was relatively secure and the chances of even running into enemy booby-traps were remote (00:33:51:00) o However, the commanders wanted to acclimate the new men and have them get a sense of what was going on; nevertheless, the new men were positive there was an enemy behind every weed and they took their time looking for him (00:34:06:00) o Van Hout’s squad leader knew what he was doing and was very strict with the men in the squad about proper spacing, sound control, and how to do the patrols properly (00:34:38:00)  However, even the new men knew what they were doing and it did not take too much in the way of coaching from the NCOs (00:34:59:00) The company left Camp Evans on Super Bowl Sunday, in January 1970, and did not return to the camp until June 1970 (00:35:10:00) o The company stayed in the lowlands until the end of February and beginning of March; it was the monsoon season higher in the mountains, which made it difficult to land forces and keep them re-supplied, so the commanders had to wait until the monsoons ended before moving into the mountains (00:35:30:00) o In the first part of March, Van Hout’s entire company was air-lifted into the mountains (00:36:04:00) o While the company was stationed in the lowlands, they never had any contact with the enemy; as a matter of fact, one of the other squads in the platoon set up a mechanical ambush and managed to kill a couple of chickens (00:36:14:00)  At one point, Van Hout’s squad found an area with thick vegetation, burrowed into the vegetation and waited for a week (00:36:34:00) �o Van Hout was assigned to be an assistant machine gunner and one of the first nights the company was in the field, Van Hout and the machine gunner were positioned along just below the crest of a small knoll (00:37:02:00)  As Van Hout and The machine gunner sat in their position, they heard some rustling out in front of them; both men thought it was an enemy, so they laid down with their weapons pointed out (00:37:27:00)  The sounds kept getting closer and although Van Hout wanted to shoot, The machine gunner told him to wait; all of sudden, Van Hout got a nudge on the bottom of his foot and saw it was a wild pig that had been making the noise (00:37:50:00) o In the time the company was in the lowlands, the more experienced soldiers pointed out that it was not exactly the real thing yet (00:38:37:00)  One day just before the company moved into the mountains, Van Hout’s squad was sitting around talking when one of the more experienced soldiers pulled out a map and pointed to the A Shau Valley; inside the valley were green dots, which the man explained were trees, and behind every tree in the valley was an enemy waiting to shoot them (00:38:41:00)  A lot of the stuff the company was doing in the lowlands was preparing the new soldiers and showing them what to do during various situations and to get a feel of what was going on (00:39:27:00) o Once the company finally moved out of the lowlands, helicopters came in and flew the men up to an LZ (landing zone) in the mountains; however, because he had no map or access to information, Van Hout had no idea where the company was (00:39:52:00)  The company “worked” the area surrounding the initial LZ for about a month, which consisted of patrol the area with the intention of finding and engaging enemy forces (00:40:25:00)  The LZ was akin to the base area for the company and was located in such a way that there was a ridgeline leading to the base, with only a single path for getting to and from the LZ (00:40:47:00)  Although the men figured the area was crawling with enemy personnel, the men could not see them (00:41:12:00)  Apart from the patrols, the men also went out at night to set up ambushes; however, in some cases, the men moved in order to stay away from enemy forces (00:41:17:00)  It was at this point that the company first its first serious series of encounters with the enemy that resulted in men either being wounded or killed (00:41:37:00)  The first time Van Hout himself came under enemy fire was when his group was walking back to the LZ and the point man noticed a series of sandal tracks crossing the trail (00:41:47:00) o The point man stopped the rest of the men and bent down to look at the tracks; however, an enemy sniper was in a nearby tree and as the man bent down, the sniper shot him in the head and killed him (00:42:19:00) �o Van Hout and The machine gunner were towards the back of the column and were called up to spray the area (00:42:28:00)  The encounter with the sniper was the typical type of enemy encounter the men experienced; for the most part, the men encountered only very small groups of enemies (00:42:58:00)  At one point, one of the other platoons went on a patrol with a scout dog; although the scout dogs were extolled for being able to find the enemy, during that patrol, the dog ended up leading the platoon into an enemy ambush (00:43:10:00) o During the ambush, the both the scout dog and his handler, as well as the platoon’s lieutenant, platoon sergeant and another soldier were killed and several soldiers were wounded (00:43:38:00) o Van Hout’s platoon had to go recover the bodies of the other platoon and found out that only a couple of NVA soldiers had hid in spider holes before they made the ambush (00:43:50:00) o Several months later, the company managed to capture a North Vietnamese soldier and when he was interrogated, the soldier said that he was one of the ambushers and after the ambush, they took the scout dog and ate it (00:44:13:00) o At night, the men would set up a perimeter with two or three men assigned to each position, with one man awake at all times; the men decided amongst themselves the rotation of who would be awake and who would sleep (00:44:41:00)  Usually, the platoon would also send out a group of five or six men to set up an ambush on a trail to hit any traveling enemy (00:45:01:00)  The day after the point man had been killed by the sniper, Van Hout’s platoon and another platoon were on the perimeter of the LZ and Van Hout was armed with the machine gun (00:44:37:00)  Instead of being on the actual perimeter, Van Hout and his assistant gunner, a new soldier just arrived in Vietnam, were with another soldier manning a listening post (00:45:52:00) o The purpose of a listening post was to sit outside the perimeter and alert the soldiers on the perimeter if the enemy was coming (00:46:06:00) o When Van Hout thought about being on the listening post years later, he realized it was essentially a suicide mission; there were three soldiers on the listening post and if anything were to happen, they would be right in the middle of the crossfire (00:46:29:00)  When Van Hout and the other two men had just finished digging their foxhole for the listening post, they were sitting along with �         edges of the hole, eating C-Rations and reading their mail, when Van Hout noticed movement off to the side (00:46:52:00) o Van Hout looked to his right and saw a North Vietnamese soldier creeping up along a nearby trail, armed with an AK47 rifle (00:47:09:00) Van Hout nudged one of the other men, who looked up and saw another North Vietnamese soldier who was further down the trail (00:47:24:00) o Van Hout had leaned his rifle against a tree to keep dirt out of it, but it was just out of reach; as Van Hout was pointing out the North Vietnamese soldier, he was also slowly reaching back to grab his rifle (00:47:36:00) When the other soldier saw the other North Vietnamese soldier on the trail, he raised his rifle and started firing; the first North Vietnamese soldier looked at Van Hout, who had jumped up to grab his rifle, and Van Hout shot him (00:47:56:00) There was a radio in the foxhole and Van Hout could hear the various call signs asking what was going on; however, Van Hout did not have time to answer (00:48:22:00) Once Van Hout and the other soldier finished firing, they looked into the foxhole and saw that the new soldier was crouched in the bottom, with his steel helmet pulled over his head (00:48:30:00) After things had settled down, the company commander brought some additional men over (00:48:55:00) In Van Hout’s mind, he had hit the first North Vietnamese soldier when he shot at him; however, when some of the men went to look for him, they found nothing (00:49:01:00) o The company commander was upset that they could not find anything because he wanted to report a body count back to his commanders (00:49:41:00) When Van Hout pointed out that the enemy now knew where the listening post was and it would be better for the three soldiers to be back on the perimeter, the company commander told them “no” and told them to instead set up another listening post, although this time, on the other side of the trail (00:49:56:00) It was getting dark and the three men did not have time to dig another foxhole, so they wedge themselves into a couple of nearby logs (00:50:18:00) On the second listening post was the first time that Van Hout was legitimately scared (00:50:31:00) o During the night, Van Hout decided that two of the men would stay on watch the entire night (00:50:43:00) o Van Hout was certain he had shot a relative of Ho Chi Minh himself and any moment, Ho Chi Mind would be receiving a telephone call, which would soon be followed by the wrath of the North Vietnamese Army (00:50:47:00) �  Van Hout reasoned that if he was going to be on the listening post and awake, so too were the men on the perimeter, so every five minutes, he would call in an report “movement” (00:51:15:00) Fortunately, that was the only time Van Hout ever had an up close and personal experience with a North Vietnamese soldier during his whole time in Vietnam (00:51:46:00) Firebase Ripcord (00:52:04:00)  On April 1st, the company was airlifted from the first LZ and moved onto area that would become Firebase Ripcord, with orders to secure the area around the hill so construction of the firebase could begin (00:52:04:00) o At the time, the North Vietnamese were based in the A Shau Valley, with their supply lines running through the valley, and the goal of operating within the valley was cutting those supply lines (00:52:23:00)  Ripcord itself was meant as a firebase to provide artillery support and backup to the units operating inside the valley (00:52:43:00) o When the company was airlifted onto Ripcord, Van Hout was fortunate to be in on of the helicopters towards the tail end of the airlift (00:52:56:00)  At the time, Van Hout was still carrying an M-60 and during the airlift, was sitting on the edge of the helicopter (00:53:13:00)  During the flight to Ripcord, Van Hout had a sense that something was not right and the door gunner to the helicopter being more agitated than normal did not help (00:53:23:00) o Van Hout looked out the side of the helicopter and saw puffs of black smoke on the hillside where the helicopter was set to land (00:53:33:00) o The acting platoon leader met the helicopter and told the men where they needed to set up their position (00:53:48:00) o The men were taking enemy fire and the company had already taken casualties, although Van Hout did not know it at the time (00:54:11:00) o As the men dug in their position, that was when Van Hout realized enemy mortar rounds were landing all round him (00:54:22:00)  Van Hout had been told in basic training and advanced training that he would eventually learn how to did a foxhole with the buttons on his shirt and it was about this time that he learned the say was true (00:54:29:00) o Ripcord had been used as a Marine Corps firebase years before but all those earlier defenses had been bombed and buried (00:54:57:00)  Once Van Hout and his assistant gunner got into the area they were told to go to, the two men go into a shallow depression, pulled out their entrenching tools and began digging their foxhole; however, the ground was as hard as a rock and two men had dug no more than a few inches before they hit buried concertina wire (00:55:04:00) o Van Hout and the assistant gunner were in the position for a little while before a mortar round impacted to Van Hout’s left and he got a face full of rocks and dirt debris, as well as a small piece of shrapnel (00:55:38:00) o Although Van Hout had the machine gun ready, he did not fire it because the men were not receiving any enemy ground fire (00:56:17:00) �o After the men had been in their positions for around three quarters of an hour, the acting platoon leader started moving around to check on them; as the sergeant was checking with the men next to Van Hout’s position, a mortar round landed behind them and killed the sergeant instantly (00:56:24:00)  Van Hout remembers looking up and seeing the sergeant laying on his back, with a peaceful look on his face that almost made it seem like he was sleeping (00:56:59:00)  The sergeant was the first man Van Hout himself saw get killed and the sergeant’s death hurt Van Hout a lot because the sergeant had been a really good man (00:57:12:00) o The company spent the day stationed on Ripcord because of the incoming enemy fire and some casualties they had suffered; once it became night, then the company moved off the hill (00:57:26:00) o Once off the hill, Van Hout’s company moved along a ridge line to link up with a company that was positioned on an adjacent hill (00:57:42:00)  Before moving, all the men lined up on the trail and grabbed the rucksack on the man in front of him; overhead, an aircraft circled overhead, dropping illumination flares and whenever a flare dropped, the men advanced (00:57:56:00)  As the company moved, Van Hout kept thinking that one enemy soldier would a machine gun was enough to wipe the entire company out (00:58:24:00)  The operation violated all the principles of movement that the men had been taught, such as moving in bright light; however, men had to advance because they needed to get off the hill (00:58:41:00)  Van Hout’s company managed to hook up with the other company and spent the night on the hill (00:58:49:00)  When Van Hout woke up the next morning, he saw that no more than three feet from where he had slept the previous night was a ledge that dropped off between 20’ and 30’ (00:58:59:00) o The next day, the companies were socked in by incoming fog, which meant the helicopters were not able to come in (00:59:28:00)  Instead, the company had to move to another area in the hope of being able to be re-supplied; initially, the company was supposed to have been re-supplied while still on Ripcord (00:59:38:00)  The company eventually ran out of food, which was went the men discovered they could eat a banana tree (00:59:56:00)  At one point, the men were stopped and one of the company’s scouts was a Vietnamese Kit Carson scout told the men they could eat a banana tree (01:00:05:00)  The scout cut down a banana tree with his machete, cut out the core of the tree, cut the core into chunks and boiled the chunks in a canteen cup with whatever spices the men had (01:00:14:00)  The men ate the chunks of the core, which basically equated to eating pieces of boiled celery; however, it still managed to fill their bellies for a short period of time (01:00:30:00) � For the most part, the company was all still together, if only so they could all be re-supplied (01:00:40:00)  Having lost both its regular platoon leader and its acting platoon leader, Van Hout’s platoon was led by another sergeant who had been a squad leader; however, because the platoon was still with the company, for the most part, the company commander was leading it (01:00:55:00)  Eventually, helicopters were flown above the company with the intention of parachuting the supplies down to the company; however, the helicopter crews needed to know when they were over the company but the reverberation of sound off the valley walls made it difficult for the men to tell when exactly a helicopter was overhead (01:01:22:00)  Whenever a helicopter would drop a parachute of supplies, a patrol was sent out to find the supplies; however, on several occasions, all the patrol found was a parachute with all the lines cut and the supplies all gone (01:01:48:00)  Eventually, Van Hout’s company managed to hook up with another company and managed to get some supplies, including fresh batches of Crations (01:02:22:00)  Back when the men were first looking for areas to be resupplied, they would dig up the old dumps used by other soldiers, looking for C-rations that the other soldiers had thrown away (01:02:50:00)  When the company received the new C-rations, some one came around and just tossed the rations to the soldiers; however, although it was dark and the men could not heat the rations up, they tore into them anyway (01:03:46:00) o Van Hout got beef steak, his least favorite variety, which was three slabs of gristle-laden meat covered in a gelatinous mixture over the top of the meat (01:03:52:00) o Once Van Hout was about halfway through the ration, he realized what he was eating; however, he was so hungry, he finished eating it (01:04:18:00)  Once the company was re-supplied, the men returned to a somewhat normal set of operations (01:04:38:00) o Prior to Van Hout’s company’s attack on Ripcord, Alpha Company had tried to attack the hill but was thrown off; two weeks after Alpha Company was thrown off, Van Hout’s company tried to take the hill (01:04:48:00)  About a week after Van Hout’s company was thrown off the hill, Charlie Company walked up the hill instead of doing an air assault, met no resistance, and built the firebase (01:04:59:00)  As Charlie Company worked to build the firebase, Van Hout’s company launched multiple search and destroy missions in the area surrounding the firebase (01:05:12:00)  However, for the most part, the men were not having too many encounters with the enemy; every once in a while, they would find a weapons cache or headquarters/sleep area (01:05:27:00) � o After doing the search and destroy missions, the company was pulled onto Ripcord itself to provide perimeter security (01:06:05:00)  Building the firebase was a continual process, so during the day, the soldiers were stringing concertina wire or barbed wire, digging new foxholes, digging latrines, etc. (01:06:14:00)  The theory behind assigning the company to the firebase was that it was a break from being in the field because the firebase was a more secure position and less of a threat of enemy attack (01:06:34:00)  One night, the firebase commanders decided to have a “mad minute”; at midnight, all the men would fire their weapons, launch flares, throw grenades, and do anything to make a ruckus (01:07:04:00)  A couple of days before the “mad minute”, Van Hout’s company commander had given the order that none of the soldiers were allowed to outside their fighting positions without wearing a flak jacket (01:07:32:00)  During the “mad minute”, Van Hout was in a foxhole with two other men and the three were shooting off flares and throwing grenades (01:07:53:00)  The man in the foxhole next to Van Hout’s was new in-country and threw a grenade the wrong way, which ended up hitting a support post for the concertina wire and bouncing back into the perimeter (01:08:03:00)  Van Hout had been standing outside his foxhole to throw the grenades and was not wearing his flak jacket; when the grenade exploded, a piece of shrapnel hit him in the shoulder (01:08:25:00)  When Van Hout told one of the other men he had been hit, the other man told him to go see a medic; however, Van Hout was worried because the company commander had said he would court martial anyone not wearing their flak jacket while out of their foxhole (01:08:53:00) o The other man told Van Hout to lie and say that he had been in his foxhole (01:09:06:00)  Van Hout went to see the medic at the top of the firebase; however, it was not a dire emergency, so the medic placed a bandage on it and told Van Hout to come back the following morning so he could be flown to Camp Evans (01:09:32:00) When Van Hout got back to Camp Evans, doctors did an X-ray of his shoulder and saw a was a small piece of shrapnel that hit Van Hout in the collarbone and took a small notch out of the bone (01:09:50:00) o The doctor at Camp Evans told Van Hout to visit the hospital at Phu Bai to see if the doctors there wanted to do surgery (01:10:01:00) o When Van Hout asked how he could get the Phu Bai from Camp Evans, he was told to go to the front gate of the camp and hitch-hike down to Phu Bai (01:10:13:00) �o Van Hout made his way over to the gate and told the MP he needed to get to Phu Bai; luckily, two soldiers coming through the gate happened to be going near the hospital at Phu Bai, so Van Hout hopped in the back of their jeep (01:10:32:00) o As the jeep drove through Hue on the way to Phu Bai, Van Hout was sitting in the back with his arm propped up on his steel helmet next to him (01:10:59:00)  At one point, the jeep was stopped and before Van Hout knew what happened, a little Vietnamese kid ran up, grabbed the Timex watch on Van Hout’s wrist and pulled the watch off (01:11:20:00) o The two soldiers eventually dropped Van Hout off at the hospital, where he checked in with a nurse (01:11:55:00)  Apart from the bandage on his shoulder, Van Hout also had a bandage on his finger because he had paronychia on the finger; paronychia was when the tissue under a finger becomes infected and begins bulging out from under the fingernail (01:12:10:00)  The nurse told Van Hout to take the bandage off and the doctor could look at that too (01:12:32:00)  Van Hout was eventually taken into an operating room where a doctor worked on fixing his shoulder then lanced the paronychia on Van Hout’s finger (01:12:38:00)  While Van Hout was laying on the surgery table, the head surgeon came into the operating room and had a very animated discussion with the doctor who had worked on Van Hout (01:12:56:00)  Once the discussion was over, the head surgeon came over and ran Van Hout’s shoulder through a series of tests to make sure none of the nerves that ran through there had been damaged (01:13:07:00)  Although Van Hout thought the doctor had taken the shrapnel out, years later, after Van Hout had gotten out of the service, he went in for a disability check-up with the VA; when he got the VA’s report back, it said there was a retained foreign body in Van Hout’s shoulder, so he does not know if the shrapnel is still in there or not (01:13:26:00) o Van Hout spent the night in the field hospital and the next day, he and a bunch of other men were transferred to the Air Force hospital at Cam Ranh Bay for recuperation (01:14:01:00)  Boarding the medevac specific C-130 for the flight down to Cam Ranh Bay was one of the most depressing things Van Hout saw while in Vietnam; he was ambulatory and able to sit in the webbed seating on the side of the airplane but down the center of the airplane was two rows of columns where stretchers were stacked four high (01:14:17:00)  The flight stopped at every hospital and more and more wounded were brought onto the flight (01:14:59:00)  During the flight, a large abscess developed on the outside of Van Hout’s knee; once Van Hout arrived at Cam Ranh Bay, he showed a doctor the abscess, which had burst by that time, so the doctor bandaged the opening and gave Van Hout antibiotics to fight both the infection from the abscess and from the paronychia (01:15:12:00) �    Whenever someone had a shrapnel or bullet wound and they had to go through surgery, the doctors wanted the wound to heal from the inside out, with the tissue healing before any suturing (01:15:46:00)  Therefore, Van Hout was a Cam Ranh Bay for about a week before the doctors put in any stitches (01:15:57:00) o Van Hout was in the hospital for about two weeks and towards the end of those two weeks, the doctors told him they were considering sending him to Camp Zama in Japan because they thought he might have had a blood disorder due to the infections he had (01:16:04:00)  Van Hout viewed going to Camp Zama as one step closer to going home and was perfectly fine going there; however, twenty-four hours later, the infections cleared up and he was sent back into the field (01:16:18:00) Once Van Hout left the hospital at Cam Ranh Bay, he made his way back to B Company, which was still stationed on Ripcord (01:16:37:00) o After Van Hout rejoined the company, the company stayed in the field until the first week of June, when the entire battalion was put on stand-down back at Camp Evans for a week (01:16:47:00)  During the stand-down, the companies refitted and the men received a new rounds of medical shots (01:17:02:00)  As well, the men went to Eagle Beach for a night, where they drank beer and listened to the USO bands (01:17:05:00)  During the stand-down, an armorer went through and checked all the men’s M-16s (01:17:16:00)  The armorer had a metal rod that he put down the barrel of each rifle to determine whether the barrel had warped; when he put the rod in Van Hout’s rifle, it wobbled back and forth (01:17:32:00) o Once all the companies in the battalion were refitted, they all went back into the field (01:17:58:00) Towards the end of June and first part of July, Van Hout was called back to Camp Evans and sent to a combat leaders course (01:18:19:00) o The course was a week-long course for an Spec-4s who the commanders thought had the potential of some day being promoted to sergeant (01:18:31:00) o The course was largely a refresher course for the orientation course that the men went through when they first arrived in-country; however, there were also some aspects of leadership training (01:18:44:00) o The commanders considered the course extremely important because all the men sent to the course received new uniforms, complete with their names and unit patches, before actually going to the course (01:18:57:00) When Van Hout finished the combat leaders course, he returned to his company area, where the company first sergeant said they needed someone to go pick up a new Kit Carson scout and asked if Van Hout would be interested in doing that (01:19:25:00) o By that time, the fighting around Ripcord had started picking up and when Van Hout weighed spending two weeks on Ripcord as opposed to two weeks at Camp Evans, he decided to stay at Camp Evans (01:19:40:00) o Van Hout went back to the training area where the Kit Carson training was done and waited for the two-week course to be done (01:20:01:00) �  The premise of the program was the Kit Carson scouts were former Viet Cong or North Vietnamese soldiers who surrendered to the United States; however, having been in the field with the enemy, the soldiers had skills in detecting the enemy more rapidly than the Americans could (01:20:12:00)  In reality, a large number of the scouts were ARVN (the South Vietnamese Army) draft dodgers and the life expectancy as a Kit Carson scout was longer than when serving in the ARVN; plus, the pay was better with the Americans (01:20:38:00)  The Kit Carson scout Van Hout ended up receiving turned out to be worthless (01:21:05:00)  As part of the Kit Carson training, the scouts were broken down into squads and were led on a small patrol around Camp Evans (01:21:22:00)  Van Hout was placed in-charge of one of these “patrols” and he decided to have his own scout on the point, so Van Hout could see what he was made of (01:21:30:00)  However, the scout spent the entire time looking over his shoulder, cursing at Van Hout (01:21:39:00) o Van Hout and the Americans tired to learn some Vietnamese during the two weeks and vice versa; however, learning the two languages was difficult because both use different letter sounds and in Vietnamese, a single word might have four or five different meanings, depending on the inflection used (01:21:52:00) o For the most part, the two groups communicated via hand signs and broken English (01:22:46:00) o Once the Kit Carson training was over, Van Hout took his scout back to the company and the first thing the scout wanted to do was go see a medic because he claimed he had been shot and could not go in the field (01:23:10:00) By the time Van Hout returned to the company, it was pulling perimeter guard duty on Ripcord; on the day Van Hout flew out to Ripcord, apart from his own Kit Carson scout, there were two other scouts plus two other men from B Company also riding in the helicopter (01:23:40:00) o During the flight, there were 50mph headwinds, which caused the helicopter to bounce all over the place and turned the faces of the scouts whiter than Van Hout and the other men (01:23:59:00) o The flight flew around for half an hour trying to get into Ripcord, which was under enemy fire at the time; finally, the pilot was diverted to Firebase O’Reilly, which housed ARVN forces (01:24:14:00)  The six men spent the night at O’Reilly before managing to get onto Ripcord the following day (01:24:25:00) o Once on Ripcord, the first thing Van Hout’s scout wanted to do was see the medic; however, the medic thought the scout had a rash, so all he did was prescribe some anointment (01:24:35:00) o Van Hout arrived back at Ripcord around a week or ten days before the Americans pulled off the firebase (01:25:01:00) �o The position Van Hout’s company occupied on Ripcord was located just below the VIP landing pad (01:25:22:00)  The company stayed in the position because there was incoming enemy fire daily; for everyone’s well-being, the men stayed in their foxholes (01:25:39:00) o The men in Van Hout’s platoon had small radios so they could stay in contact with one another and one night, Van Hout’s radio was set to a frequency that was picking up a whole bunch of Vietnamese chatter (01:26:55:00) o The Kit Carson scout started going nuts when he heard the Vietnamese on the radio, so Van Hout finally called back to have another Kit Carson scout who spoke pretty good English come over and interpret (01:26:16:00)  The other scout plus an officer came over and as it turned out, the Vietnamese chatter was that the enemy was massing their forces to launch a ground attack that night (01:26:46:00) o The entire perimeter went onto high alert because they had no way of knowing where exactly the attack was coming from (01:27:05:00)  However, the enemy attack ended up coming against another company in the battalion that was on another hilltop (01:27:13:00) o For the most part, the enemy did not launch mortar attacks at night because the men could see the muzzle flash (01:27:37:00)  Van Hout’s position was pretty good because there were four men assigned to it, which meant each man could get an extra hour of sleep per night (01:27:57:00)  Although Van Hout tried to explain to the Kit Carson scout that he needed to stay awake during his portion of the guard duty, when Van Hout woke up during the night, the scout was sleeping in the corner (01:28:07:00)  Van Hout kicked the scout and dragged him outside to yell at him, but it was to no avail (01:28:20:00) o The men had rolls of concertina wire in front of their position and at dusk, they would position the wire in the shape of a “v”; that way, if there was a sapper attack or a ground attack, the wire forced the enemy to come towards the men’s position (01:28:42:00)  As the men constantly wound and unwound the wire, it got loosened and tangled and became extremely hard to straighten out (01:29:23:00)  One time, Van Hout had the Kit Carson scout help him straighten the wire; however, the scout was just standing with his hands in his pockets while Van Hout told him to grab the end of the wire (01:29:32:00)  The scout said he did not understand, which upset Van Hout, who took off his helmet and threw it at the scout (01:29:48:00) o During that last period on the firebase, Van Hout’s company never came under direct enemy ground attack; instead, it was incoming rockets and mortar attacks (01:30:21:00)  From his position on the perimeter, Van Hout could tell that the fighting was not going well for the Americans (01:30:32:00) �o On July 18th, a Chinook helicopter was shot down by enemy .51 caliber machine gun fire as the Chinook tried to re-supply the artillery battery that was stationed at the top of the firebase (01:30:37:00)  When the helicopter crashed onto the firebase, it crashed into the artillery battery, burning up all the guns in the battery as well as all the artillery ammunition (01:30:52:00)  The fire from the crash spread down the hill to the infantry’s ammunition dump, which caught fire and burned up as well; it was like being in the middle of a 4th of July celebration (01:30:59:00)  Van Hout’s company went to the northeast corner of the firebase to try and get away from the explosions (01:31:13:00)  The unfortunate part of the explosions was that higher command thought an enemy ground attack was imminent and had sent dozens of canisters of CS gas to repel the attack; however, the CS gas was stored with the ammunition and caught fire, so there was a haze of tear gas floating above the entire firebase (01:32:18:00) o At the time, Ripcord was used as a forward operating base for Van Hout’s battalion, so all replacements for the other companies in the battalion came through Ripcord before getting a helicopter ride out to their company already in the field (01:32:59:00)  At the time of the Chinook’s destruction, there was a replacement soldier in a position near the ammunition dumps; when the explosions started, the man panicked and went outside the wire to escape (01:33:14:00)  Van Hout’s company had been placed on alert about the possibility of an enemy ground attack and one of the men said he saw movement among some boulders outside the perimeter (01:33:45:00)  The man asked a sergeant what to should do and the sergeant said to frag him, so Van Hout and some other men started throwing fragmentation grenades towards the rocks (01:34:15:00)  After a little while, the sergeant told them to stop and when they did, the man popped his head out and said he was an American (01:34:27:00)  The only injury the other man ended up with was a single wound in his leg (01:34:52:00) o After receiving intelligence that the enemy was gathering forces to surround the firebase and mount a ground assault, the commanders made the decision to evacuate the firebase on July 23rd, (01:35:27:00)  On the morning of July 23rd, helicopters started showing up extremely early to move all the equipment and supplies off the firebase; however, the enemy started firing on the slower moving Chinooks, so the Americans were reduced to using only the Hueys (01:35:44:00)  As the helicopters were coming in, the men on the perimeter were told to lay down suppressing fire, so Van Hout was positioned below the VIP landing pad with an M-60 (01:36:10:00)  Van Hout could hear the “popping” sound of mortars down in the valley, so he concentrated his fire there (01:36:23:00) �  At one point, Van Hout heard a voice over his shoulder and when he turned around, he saw that it was his battalion commander; when the commander told Van Hout to focus his fire on a hill, because that was where the mortar fire was coming from, Van Hout said he could hear the mortars in the valley (01:36:39:00)  Eventually, Van Hout’s M-60 either ran out of ammunition or jammed because he remembers fumbling around with ammunition when a mortar round landed about ten feet in front of the position (01:37:33:00) o A piece of shrapnel about the size of Van Hout's pinky finger went through his helmet and lodged into his forehead, knocking him to the ground at the same time (01:37:44:00)  Van Hout’s first sensation once he was on the floor of the position was that his ribs hurt because he hit a steel pipe used to support to edge of the position (01:38:03:00) o All of sudden, he heard a gushing sound and the blood started running down his face; Van Hout pulled his first aid bandage out of his pants and putting the bandage on the wound, applied pressure (01:38:25:00) o At the same time, a young black kid who had just joined the company and had been in the adjacent position, came over to see if Van Hout was okay (01:38:42:00) o Van Hout said he (Van Hout) needed to find a medic and asked if the kid could watch the Kit Carson scout, who had been in the position with Van Hout (01:38:52:00)  By that point, all the medics had been evacuated off the firebase, so he went back to his position, tightened the bandage and wiped the blood off his face and glasses (01:39:08:00) About a half-an-hour later, Van Hout went to the top of the hill to try and catch a helicopter flight off the firebase (01:39:28:00)  As Van Hout waited at the top of the hill, one of the men in his platoon ran up, said another man had been hit, and told Van Hout to grab a stretcher (01:39:45:00) o The injured man had been walking along a trail when a mortar round landed between his legs and tore him to pieces (01:39:55:00) o Van Hout ran into the wounded man many years later and the man said that apart from having his leg torn open and a hole in his jaw, he also had a broken right leg, a broken right arm, and a broken right shoulder (01:40:18:00)  A helicopter was eventually brought in, although it was not a medevac, and both Van Hout and the wounded boarded, along with a bunch of excess weapons that had been laying around the top of the hill (01:40:33:00) � Once the helicopter was outside the range of Ripcord, the door gunner looked over, saw the wounded man on the stretcher and Van Hout’s wound, his eyes got wide and he said something into his headset (01:40:54:00)  Out of the corner of his eye, Van Hout saw the pilot turn around and look, then the nose of helicopter dropped; that flight back to Camp Evans was the fastest Van Hout had ever had (01:41:14:00) o The helicopter flew back to the hospital at Camp Evans and the other wounded soldier was unloaded there and taken onto an operating table (01:41:27:00)  However, the hospital’s generator had failed and just the sheer number of casualties had overwhelmed the staff working at the hospital (01:41:38:00)  When the staff checked Van Hout over, they asked if he could go to the aid station on the camp and have that staff take care of him (01:41:52:00) o Van Hout went to the aid station, where the staff cleaned and dressed the wound before he returned to the company area (01:42:05:00)  Once Van Hout got back to the company area, the Kit Carson scouts came up to him and kept asking where his scout was, although Van Hout did not know (01:42:15:00)  By that point, the entire firebase had been evacuated and Van Hout’s scout was nowhere to be seen (01:42:30:00) o When Van Hout saw the kid who he had left the scout with and he asked what happened, the kid said that he tried to get the scout to leave but he would not leave the position (01:42:38:00)  About an hour later, the scout came into the area; someone had saw him running around on top of the firebase, ascertained he was an American asset and picked him up (01:42:58:00) End of Tour / Post-Military Life / Reflections (01:43:17:00)  Once the they were off Ripcord, Van Hout’s company went into a stand-down in the battalion area to be refitted (01:43:17:00) o Van Hout stayed in the battalion area for a couple of days before going back to the aid station, where the battalion surgeon examined him and sent him to the hospital to have an x-ray done (01:43:25:00) o Once Van Hout had the x-ray, the doctor said it looked like he had a possible skull fracture and that Van Hout needed to be sent to the hospital down in Da Nang (01:43:37:00)  Although Van Hout thought he was going to have to hitch-hike to Da Nang again, the doctor point him to a helipad where Chinooks were making runs between Da Nang and Camp Evans (01:43:44:00) o Van Hout went down to Da Nang and spent two weeks in the hospital, which included getting an arteriogram to check if any shrapnel had managed to pass through his skull ; at the end of the two weeks, he was told to go back into the field (01:44:11:00) �  o By the time Van Hout returned to the company, the injection site for the arteriogram had become infected and the battalion surgeon, who felt bad about having Van Hout sit around with a possible skull fracture, made sure that Van Hout did not have to do too much (01:44:45:00) Van Hout eventually took an R&R to Sydney, Australia and when he returned to Vietnam, went back into the field (01:45:13:00) o Although he remembers things happening in the six months after he returned from R&R until he went home, Van Hout suffered from TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury) and the exact order of the events is jumbled in his head (01:45:22:00) o At one point, the company did an airlift into an area but there was extremely tall elephant grass and the men kept getting cut up (01:45:54:00)  All of a sudden, there was a “pop” and the men were told to halt; Van Hout’s Kit Carson scout was tired of marching and had shot himself in the foot to get out of the field (01:46:10:00)  The company commander, who was by this time another captain, had little time or patience with the Kit Carson scouts and he made Van Hout’s scout march the remain kilometer to their camp before seeing if they could call in a helicopter (01:46:26:00) o During the final months of Van Hout’s tour, there was very little in the way of fighting with the enemy (01:47:05:00)  The only contact the men had was when the company was moving along a ridge line to be re-supplied and unbeknownst to them, enemy forces were stationed on the adjacent ridgeline (01:47:07:00)  The humorous part of the incident was that the company supply sergeant, who annoyed the men by throwing the supplies out the helicopter, had to jump out of a damaged helicopter; however the helicopter managed to fly away, leaving the supply sergeant in the field without any weapon or equipment (01:47:24:00) o At some point, Van Hout had a problem with boils on his backside, so he went to the aid station on Firebase Rakkasan for about a week for treatment (01:48:32:00) o At that time, the Army currency was being switched and Van Hout kept missing the pay officer, so he eventually had to fly down to Camp Eagle and exchange all his currency before it became worthless (01:48:53:00) o When Van Hout returned to the company area, the first sergeant chewed him out for going behind the first sergeant’s back to secure a job in the rear area; however, Van Hout had no idea what he was talking about (01:49:07:00)  As it turned out, someone had put Van Hout’s name in to be a radio operator at the battalion operations center, which he did for the remaining few weeks of his tour (01:49:18:00) o Eventually, President Nixon shortened the tours of the American soldiers in Vietnam and Van Hout’s tour was shortened by twenty-five days (01:49:30:00) When Van Hout left Vietnam, he had six months remaining on his enlistment, so he was assigned to Fort Hood, Texas to join an infantry company in the 1st Armored Division (01:49:54:00) o Being assigned to Fort Hood was a terrible situation all around for Van Hout; the base is very large, large enough to hold two full divisions and the majority of the �  men assigned to those divisions were draftees just back from Vietnam who were not planning on making a career out of the Army and quite frankly, wanted nothing to do with the Army (01:50:07:00)  As well, there was also a lot of racial tension amongst the men who were assigned to the base (01:50:31:00)  Most of the work the men had to do equated to “busy work”, such as policing their company area up to five times a day to pick up used cigarette butts (01:50:40:00) o After Van Hout had been with the company for about a month, the company clerk was getting out of the service and Van Hout was called in and asked by the first sergeant if he could type (01:50:55:00)  When Van Hout said he could type, he was made the new company clerk; being the company clerk was fine because it was almost like a regular job, Van Hout had his weekends free, and he did not have to work in the kitchen or do guard duty (01:51:11:00) o One night, Van Hout went off base and when he came back, in the company area, all the black men were in front of one barracks and the white men were in front of another barracks (01:51:51:00)  Although Van Hout does not know what caused the incident, the brigade commander eventually came in with a bunch of MPs to try and calm the situation (01:52:16:00)  According to the unwritten rules of the base, a certain road was “off limits” to the MPs after dark; where the barracks were located, two streets bordered them and one day, Van Hout found out that one of those streets was the “off limits” street (01:52:31:00)  When problems amongst the other men became dicey, Van Hout went and stayed with another clerk, who was renting a trailer off base (01:53:21:00) Although there was some racial tension in Vietnam, it was confined to the rear areas; the men did not have time to worry about that while in the field (01:53:44:00) o When Van Hout worked as a radio operator at the end of his tour, it seemed like the line to get into the mess hall was usually a flashpoint (01:53:56:00)  It seemed like there would be a small group of black men at the front of the line followed by a large group of white men; all of sudden, a large group of black men would show up and jump in line (01:54:13:00) Van Hout worked in the operations center from eight o’clock at night until eight o’clock in the morning and as he would walk to the operations center, there was a slightly overgrown patch of land and Van Hout could tell other men were going in there to smoke drugs; as with the racial tension amongst the men, drug use was, for the most part, confined to the rear area (01:54:45:00) o The only time Van Hout saw drugs in the field was when he was briefly on Firebase Rakkasan and there was a bunker specifically set aside for transient soldiers; Van Hout and two other men from the company were in the bunker and in one corner was a pile of clothes (01:55:04:00)  One of the other men started sorting through the clothes and eventually pulled up a plastic bag full of drugs (01:55:25:00) �   Once he was finally discharged from the Army in 1971, Van Hout returned home with the intention of collecting unemployment for the summer before going back to school at the beginning of the fall semester (01:56:00:00) o Van Hout returned to the paper mill where he had been working when he was draft because the mill was required by law to give him his job back; however, when Van Hout said he was going back to school, the mill said they would not hire him back, which was fine with him (01:56:10:00) o When Van Hout started collecting unemployment, the paper mill called him back and told him to come into work the following Monday, which he did and he stayed for about a month (01:56:31:00) o Van Hout eventually did return to school and ended up earning his degree from the University of Wisconsin, Stevens Point (01:57:01:00) While Van Hout was going to school, he met a local girl and married her a year after he graduated from school (01:57:11:00) The year after he married, Van Hout was hired by the Defense Department as an investigator, which he did for twenty-nine years (01:57:21:00) o Van Hout started out in Milwaukee, Wisconsin as an investigator before moving to Baltimore to be a case analyst before being promoted to supervisor; he eventually went to Fayetteville, North Carolina as a Special Agent In-Charge for three years before being promoted again, Special Agent In-Charge of the Colombia, South Carolina office, a position that he remained in for the next twenty years (01:57:34:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanHoutC1271V Title A name given to the resource Van Hout, Craig (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Hout, Craig Description An account of the resource Craig Van Hout was born in 1949 in Green Bay, Wisconsin. After graduating from high school, he went to college for three semesters before dropping out, and received his draft notice soon afterward in January 1969. After finishing his basic training at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, Van Hout went through advanced training at Fort Polk, Louisiana. Once he finished at Fort Polk, Van Hout deployed to Vietnam and joined B Company, 2nd of the 506th, 101st Airborne Division in January, 1970. While serving with the 101st Airborne, His unit took part in the campaign around Firebase Ripcord from April through July, 1970, and was wounded during the evacuation of the base. He eventually returned to his company, which saw relatively little combat during his final months in the field. He spent the last few months of his enlistment at Fort Hood, Texas, where he served as a clerk. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-08-10 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4b345fea448124512de5508425e13a46.pdf 22476d70bec4590dd8be313ab77a9bd3 PDF Text Text Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project Johnson Center for Philanthropy Grand Valley State University Oral History Interview with Donna VanIwaarden, September 23, 2011 The Council of Michigan Foundations, Johnson Center for Philanthropy at Grand Valley State University (GVSU), and GVSU Libraries’ Special Collections & University Archives present: An oral history interview with Donna VanIwaarden, September 23, 2011, conducted by Dr. James Smither of the History Department at GVSU, and recorded at GVSU in Grand Rapids, Mich. This interview is part of a series in the Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project documenting the history of philanthropy in Michigan. Preferred citation: Researchers wishing to cite this collection should use the following credit line: Oral history interview with Donna VanIwaarden, September 23, 2011. "Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project", Johnson Center Philanthropy Archives of the Special Collection & University Archives, Grand Valley State University Libraries. James Smither (JS): [This is] an oral history being conducted for the Johnson Center for Philanthropy at Grand Valley State University. We’re talking today with Dr. Donna VanIwaarden who was Director of the Johnson Center between 2001 and 2005. The interviewer is James Smither of the History Department at Grand Valley State. Donna can you start us off with some basic background on yourself. To begin with, where and when were you born? Donna VanIwaarden (DVI): October 3rd, 1946 in Okmulgee, Oklahoma. (JS): Now did you grow up in Oklahoma or moved somewhere else? (DVI): I did, I grew up in Tulsa. (JS): And what did your family do for a living then? (DVI): My dad was an accountant and my mother was a homemaker. I had three little sisters. So, I was the oldest, the overachiever. (JS): What kind of education did you have? 1 �(DVI): I graduated from Will Rogers high school in Tulsa, and I moved to Minnesota, and when my son was in the first grade I started college at the University of Minnesota. I got a Bachelor’s in Sociology. I kept right on going; I got a Master at Public Health Administration, and kept on going and I got a Ph.D. in Health Services Research, Policy and Administration. (JS): In what year did you get the doctorate? (DVI): Eighty nine. (JS): You had been working though before that, right? (Donna nods). You had different professional positions. Let’s kind of go back, sort of, undergraduate college experience, why did you go to Minnesota? (DVI): Well, I got married and I moved to Minnesota and I’d always wanted to go to college, always thought I would, but somehow life has a way of changing things. So, I started when my son started first grade, and I went part time. (JS): Now how old were you when you started college? (DVI): Probably 25, 26 [note – actually, I was 28]. (JS): And then how did you pick your major? (DVI): I think just because I really enjoyed sociology I loved studying people and the way groups work and all that. So, I just fell into it just because I loved it, didn’t have any ulterior motive or reason. I just took a lot of classes. I think the first class I took was the Psychology of Women. That was just the first class at Community College, so I finished two years at Community College and then I went to University of Minnesota. 00:02:42 (JS): If I may ask it, you were doing this in the early 70’s? (DVI): That’s right. (JS): Which would have been a very interesting time to be doing sociology, with women and so forth; did you have at the time views about the women’s movement that was going on, or the ERA and things like that? (DVI): I did, I was right at the cusp of traditional values and feminist values as anybody my age probably experienced that tension between those two; because I wanted to grow up and get married and have a family, but I also wanted to grow up and get educated and have a career. So it was always that balance I think that a lot of woman my age would say they had that same issue of always the balance, and the tension between the two desires. (JS): Alright. Now, how long did it take you to get that first four year degree? 2 �(DVI): Probably six years. I started with one class and just loved it. Before you knew it I was going, my son would leave for school and so would I. So anything between 9 and 3, and I usually did my homework between 12 and 3 in the morning after everybody had gone bed, it was quiet and I could study. (JS): Was there a particular course or whatever that kind of captured your imagination or gave you ideas about where you wanted to go from there or was it more of an overall experience? (DVI): I think it was the overall experience. I always was interested in health and when I was young I thought I wanted to be a doctor. My dad always discouraged anything related to hospitals because he didn’t like hospitals. So, when I was a volunteer Candy Striper at 15 or 14 whatever it was, he could not understand why I wanted to spend my time in a hospital. But I loved it. And then when I was a young adult I was a Pink Lady on the weekends and I really loved that. So, anything related to health. So I took some sociology of medicine courses which I just thoroughly enjoyed. So I think that moved me in that direction. I can’t think of any specific course that captured my imagination but I just kind of moved in that direction. (JS): Now was Sociology of Medicine a field that was just kind of growing or developing at that point? (DVI): I think it was. (JS): So you sort of get in there as they are figuring out what it’s all about. (DVI): Learning some of the theories that made absolute perfect sense to me and just thoroughly enjoyed the study of medicine, the study of the professions, how it all developed. I loved all that. 00:05:20 (JS): Now once you completed the four year degree, did you directly move toward graduate school or was there a gap in between? (DVI): There wasn’t a gap. I was very fortunate that at the time I wanted to and I really don’t remember how I actually got into public health actually now that I think about it, but there was a stipend that was available and so I applied. I got the stipend, it worked well I loved administration, and the management part as well. It was a very exciting time to be in public health. My university was right down the street from the state health department and one of my teachers of epidemiology was Michael Osterholm who was the one who was so involved in toxic shock syndrome back in the 80’s, I think it was. And then I remember a lecture he gave and he said, “there’s something unusual that we’re seeing right now.” I think it was Karposi Syndrome and he said “something is up.” Well it was a precursor to HIV and understanding that that was happening. But he was on the forefront of that and it was so exciting to be there, and have a part and just learning about these epidemiology things that were coming in. It was an exciting time to be in public health. 3 �(JS): And then how long did it take you to do the Masters? (DVI): Probably three or four years. I don’t remember the exact date now that you’re asking me. I didn’t look at that. (JS): Were you going full time or was there work mixed in with that? (DVI): I was going part time and still managing my family, and so I did it part time. (JS): Right, that still worked. (DVI): It still worked. And part of what I was doing is I began to manage or coordinate the prelicensure program for nursing home administrators. In the 70s there was a federal law passed that nursing home administrators had to be licensed. And so Minnesota was really on the forefront of that in developing curriculum and I had the honor of being the coordinator of that pre-licensure program. So we had a wonderful program of adult students who are actually working in the field and they’d come in and get their coursework and I coordinated that while I was working on my Masters, and then continued it for my Ph.D. So I did that for a long time. (JS): Now you’ve taken these people, who were, they’d been running nursing homes or whatever, they’d been doing this stuff, what kind of attitude did they bring in with them? Did you get to meet any of them or talk to them a little bit about this? (DVI): Oh, all the time, yes. Some of them thought it was just totally a waste of time, they’d been doing this for years and their experience was good enough. Others were great. They really wanted to learn. They were so glad that they had the opportunity to expand their knowledge. (JS): Did you have the sense that the experiences that they brought with them maybe ultimately helped to shape the program at all or help things get done? (DVI): Absolutely. That’s true I think anytime you’re teaching adult students, they shape the course as much as you do as a teacher and that’s what makes it so exciting. I love teaching adult students. 00:08:48 (JS): Alright. Now, once you completed the Master’s degree what did you do next? (DVI): I went right into the Ph.D. program, working with the very same people at the University of Minnesota. So it really was just a continuation of something that I was enjoying. (JS): Now, how does a Ph.D. program physically work? How much is actual course work now? How do you do dissertation research? There are kind of straight academic fields, like history where you go and read a bunch of books or documents and then go write something. What did you have to do for the doctorate? (DVI): Well, I did have to take a lot of courses. I had to take a lot of statistics courses, research methodology as well as some management courses because it was a broad Ph.D. with health services research, policy, and administration. So I had courses in all of those areas, including sociology that was a big part of that program as well. Policy was a big part and research and 4 �statistics. I had a lot of coursework to do. When the coursework was done I had the oral exam over all those areas and then I presented my thesis proposal, and then I worked on that for a long time. (JS): What was the thesis topic? (DVI): The thesis topic was The Impact of Prepaid Healthcare on Utilization and I can’t remember the exact title at the moment. (JS): One of those good social science… (DVI): (laughter), Utilization and Function in Nursing Home Patients. What happened was in Minnesota in the 80s it was a hotbed for prepaid health care which you would think of now as HMOs, but back then, that was very new and Minnesota was really a pioneer in the whole concept of prepaid health. I had the perfect opportunity because Minnesota was randomly selecting Medicaid nursing home residents to go into prepaid health plans. So I was able to compare 400 people who were in the prepaid health plan to 400 people who were left in the regular fee for service system and determine if that had an effect on their utilization of health services or on their functional status at the end of the year. That was exciting research to do. (JS): So, were you tracking a group of individual patients then who agreed to be part of it or how did that work? (DVI): Well what we did was actually records review. So after they had been put into the health plans, I was able to hire two nurses who would go back and extract data from the health record for a year. So we would walk into a nursing home where we had already randomly selected the files that we were going to study. And there would be a huge stack of files that they would go through and extract the data. 00:11:47 (JS): Now did the people whose files were being looked at, did they have to sign consent forms or was this an earlier era where we didn’t worry about that? (DVI): It was an earlier era. I’m trying to think exactly how that went. Because it was for research purposes we were allowed to look at their medical record under very strict guidelines. And because it was funded by Medicaid, we had access to those records for research purposes. So we never actually talked to the residents, it was just their records. And there were very strict guidelines about who could be in the room with the medical record and they had to be locked, and I had to keep all my data under lock and key as well, it had to be destroyed when I was done, all those kinds of things. I had no identifying data on my data collection forms. Everybody was assigned a number. It’s not the same as it was back then but it still was very stringent in terms of confidentiality. (JS): So what did you find? Did it make a difference to be in a prepaid plan or not? (DVI): It made a difference, yes, in the utilization of physical therapy and occupational therapy, and some doctor visits. What we could not determine was did it make a difference in their functional status. I interviewed a lot of nursing home administrators and nurses, it was their 5 �anecdotal evidence that said there was some difference in the functioning but the instruments we used were not capable of finding a difference. So the bottom line is it saved the county a ton of money and there seemed to be no detrimental effect on the residents, which was what they were hoping to find. (JS): Alright and how long did it take you to finish that? (DVI): Probably two or three years because they had to be in for a year in order for us to even access the records. So, once the data collection was done, then we had to enter the data, you know that was back in the days before SPSS got so easy to use, and I actually was able to hire some people to help enter the data, and I had a research person who was able to actually print out the report. This was before you could print your own on your PC and so I would say, I need this test and this test and this test, and then I would go in a day or two in his office, and he would hand me this big print outs, you know, big paper stacks. After that it didn’t take so long, writing it up was pretty easy. It’s all the other parts that took so long to get done. (JS): Alright. Now once you had the degree, did you have an idea what you wanted to do with it? 00:14:49 (DVI): I wanted to teach. I did. And I got a teaching job at the University of North Carolina in Asheville. Remember I told you that I started college when my son started first grade. So I took a teaching job in North Carolina about the time he was in college. And he said mom, we’re doing this backwards. I am supposed to go off to college not you (because he stayed in Minnesota to go to college and I went to North Carolina.) So I taught in the Management Department and I taught healthcare management to undergrads for three years. (JS): So what was that experience like? (DVI): You know it was really quite amazing. I remember two specific things that were quite striking. One is the first management test that I gave my students, I got it back and almost everybody flunked my test. And I was just aghast. I thought I’d been teaching this and I had been trying so hard to teach this material and they’ve all flunked it. What’s going on? So I called my mentor back at the University of Minnesota and I said, I just flunked all my students, what’s going on, what am I doing wrong? And he roared with laughter. I said, you know what Ken, this is not funny. And he said, “Oh, it is.” He said, “Every new teacher does this because you’re coming fresh out of a Ph.D. program and you’re on a different level from your students so your tests are really hard and it’s not unusual for this to happen.” And I said I wish you told me this before. (JS): Had you had any kind of exposure to undergraduate teaching other than being in a graduate… (DVI): No, it had all been graduate. (JS): That has a lot to do with it. There are fields where if you’re a teaching assistant or a lab assistant and you were working with undergrads as a graduate student then you see how it works. But you were geared in all these professional programs and doing that for so long and with the adult learners on top of it when you were dealing with it in a lot of cases. Very different. 6 �(DVI): Then I had one other interesting experience as a first year teacher. I got involved right away with some research that my colleagues were doing on hearing loss in the work place and I was really excited to be a part of this new project and we were looking at the statistical tests we were going to use, and I said well you can’t use that and they said, “ Well, why? Of course we can.” And I said, no you can’t. So I called my statistics mentor at the University of Minnesota and I said Vern, you always told us that we could not use this test in this instance and he roared with laughter. I said you know what, this is not funny. What’s going on here? And he said, “Well you’re right. I did tell you that you couldn’t use it in this case. But social scientists do it all the time.” And I’m like, why didn’t you tell me this, that there were exceptions in how it could be used? But he was such a purist that he didn’t want us to use it that way. So, there were some interesting learning experiences in that first year. 00:18:07 (JS): Now how long did you stay there? (DVI): I stayed there for three years and I just had my contract renewed when I decided that I was probably going to look for something else because I was about to remarry and move to Michigan. (JS): When you went to North Carolina was there any amount of culture shock from going there from Minnesota or was it relatively easy place to adapt to otherwise? (DVI): No it was intense culture shock. Probably because I was used to being in a big city living in the Twin Cities and before that I lived in Tulsa which was a big city and Asheville was pretty small compared to them. And I used to say, “I miss the traffic.” You know it was just such a slower pace of life, a different, it was beautiful, I liked the people. It just seemed small compared to being in a metropolitan area. (JS): Was there much of a cultural difference in terms of just the attitudes that students brought with them in the classes, I mean, you’re dealing with various kinds of social issues and so forth, and you come from a place where there would had been probably a fairly strong feminist perspective in a lot of things and so forth, go in to mountain North Carolina, did you notice much of a difference there? (DVI): I did, but remember I grew up in Tulsa. So, I had exposure to both worlds so that part wasn’t such a shock to me. I wasn’t surprised. I did teach a course in women and business where I was trying to get women to think a little broader about their own careers. So, I had a chance to do some of that as well, kind of mentoring young women. That was exciting. I enjoyed that. At the same time you have to respect their values and not tread on those too harshly. (JS): Right. So, you found some reasonable balance to make the course work? (DVI): (Nodding) Exactly. (JS): Alright. You decide then for reasons of your own that you were looking to move on, so where did you go then from North Carolina? 7 �(DVI): I came to West Michigan. I met my husband, John, at a teaching conference in Ohio and he said well, you know, he would move to my area, and I said well I had been there only three years, let me look at your area. It’s the same you know lots of academics have this issue of where are you going to be once you get together. And he was teaching at Hope College. And it just happened that at that time I was looking, Grand Valley was also recruiting someone to teach in their Healthcare Administration Program, in the School of Public Administration. They had started a new emphasis area. So, it was just like, you know, everything in the universe was just set for things to work out. 00:20:57 (JS): Now, did you start as an adjunct or full time? (DVI): Full time. (JS): Now what was it like in the first year at Grand Valley, what kind of adjustments did you make or how easy or hard was it? (DVI): I worked really hard. Partly because now I’m teaching graduate classes instead of undergrad, and my students are very, very sharp, very experienced in healthcare in this area. So, I was learning a new area and teaching grad students so, I was spending a lot of time studying myself and because everything was a new prep because I had never taught any of these courses before to grad students so I spent a lot of time in prep. (JS): Did you encounter graduate students who acted like they knew more than you did? (DVI): Well, in some cases I felt like they did, but no basically no. I have to say that the grad students I encountered were absolutely fabulous. (JS): So they weren’t trying to tell you how to do your job or..? (DVI): No. You know, I think the thing that I, as I reflect on teaching grad students who were working in the field, I felt like what I was doing was giving them a framework for some of the things that they already were practicing. It’s kind of like you have this closet where you’ve got this pile of clothes, it’s just kind of in a lump and I’m giving them the hangers to hang them up and organize it and kind of be aware of what they are doing and how do it better. (JS): Is there a kind of general profile for the type of person who would come into those classes by way of you know age, experience level, job, gender, wherever? (DVI): No. I think it was pretty balanced in terms of gender and age probably mid to late thirties. I had a number of nurses who were getting into management and so they were coming in to take my financial management class. I always took it as a real challenge because I wanted to make everybody really understand it well, so they could go out and do a really good job. And so, I loved having them in the class and hearing experiences they were having out in the field was just, is really refreshing and really exciting to teach when you know that what you’re doing is being applied the next day in the real world and that’s fun. (JS): Did they come back and then tell about what happened? 8 �(DVI): (nods) I remember one really wonderful vivacious nurse, maybe she wasn’t a nurse but she worked in the hospital, and she came back after a few classes and she said, “You know they think I’m really smart now.” Because I had shown her some way to do a budget and there’s some financial things that were new to her. And she thought that she sounded so much smarter and they really caught on that she knew what she was doing. That was fun. (JS): Now what year did you get to Grand Valley? (DVI): Fall of 93. (JS): Alright. And then how long did you stay in that position that you came into? (DVI): Well in some sense, until I retired because I stayed on the faculty of the School of Public and Nonprofit Administration even when I became the Director. So, I was assistant professor and then associate professor, and then I took the job at the Johnson Center. 00:24:41 (JS): Okay. What kind of sort of research or scholarship expectations did they have of you? What were you supposed to do besides teach? (DVI): One of the interesting things that happened in my interview at Grand Valley was a question that was posed to me by Margaret Sellers Walker, it was Margaret Sellers at the time, she said, “So what kind of work do you do in a community?” So that was really an interesting question that I’d never been asked in academics before. What do you do in a community? So that really let me know right away that that was important in the School of Public and Nonprofit Administration, and I think important at Grand Valley, to be involved in the community and actually apply what you were learning or what you were teaching and make a difference in the community as well as with your students. So, I think there were expectations then to do community service as well as the university service, and the academic part of it. So, my academics was, or my writing and scholarship really was very much practical, applied kind of research that I really enjoyed doing. (JS): So what sort of things did you do that would reach out into the community? (DVI): Like I served on a lot of boards, that was a lot of fun, and got involved in some community groups where they would want someone to come in and do a lecture or make a presentation on a particular management topic for example in nonprofit leadership areas. At the time when I was on the faculty, there was the Direction Center which had been started by Grand Valley and the Grand Rapids Foundation and United Way I think. And so, I would do some research with them and their clients as well as teaching and seminars and things like that for their clients. (JS): Did you do a lot by way of grant applications and that sort of thing? (DVI): No. That was not part of it right at that particular time. Later that would become more important but not in my first few years of teaching. 00:27:00 9 �(JS): Okay, now at what point did you become aware that we have this thing called the Johnson Center that had started out for studying philanthropy? (DVI): Well, the Center for Philanthropy was actually started I think by people involved with the School of Public Administration. So when I came in 93 it had already been started. Tom Jeavons was there, and his office was right there in the same building that mine was. He was at all the faculty meetings. So, I knew that coming in that there was the Johnson Center, at that time was Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership. So we all worked together on the curriculum and on faculty issues and so on. (JS): Now how do you wind up making a switch from being sort of regular faculty member to someone who will eventually take over the Center for Philanthropy? (DVI): I had gotten some grants through the Center for Philanthropy in order to do some research for some nonprofits. I had worked with a long term care facility in Muskegon to do a project and it was funded by a small grant from the center, and a few other projects that I had done where I had gotten a grant. And then, I started working on some projects that Spectrum was doing on healthy communities and it really pulled that whole health interest I had and the community interest I had; it really put them together because you look at healthy communities and you look at it broadly, not just their physical health, but the whole health of the community, the education, the poverty, and all the issues that go into making a great place to live. And that really pulled me in the direction of nonprofits and philanthropy. So, it wasn’t as big a leap as it might sound given the background that I just told you about. I had the privilege of being invited to a meeting that Don Lubbers, the President of the university, he had invited a number of faculty people to come and hear Fred Keller talk about a new initiative that they were working on in the community, and I think it was Fred, and Diana Sieger, and some others in the community, who were working on some really visionary thinking on how to improve the community and they wanted to get the university involved and so President Lubbers called this meeting. And I remember Fred talking about what they were doing and it was so exciting just to think about using the resources of a university to really make a difference in a community and to really measure the changes that were going on in the community. And out of that I came up with the idea of a community research institute (laughs), and I’m still a faculty member with no money to do anything. And I got my first grant from the Center for Philanthropy and that freed me up to work on this concept of a Community Research Institute. So, I had gotten grants from the center as a faculty member to pursue some of my own interests in this whole area of community improvement. In fact, I had met some faculty at the Water Resources Institute who had shown me the maps they were doing with GIS, Geographical Information System. And I was so excited about that and I thought we should be doing that with nonprofits. We can track where poverty is, we can use it to look at epidemiology, I mean there’s so many applications for that. So, I applied for a grant to buy a GIS system from the center and I bought it and I had absolutely no idea how to operate it or what to do with it. But that’s just telling you how I got involved in this whole issue of nonprofits and how that led to the Johnson Center for me. (JS): Ok. Now, you are doing this kind of work but at some point you actually go into administration. So how does that get started and how does that play out? 00:31:21 10 �(DVI): Well, I’m kind of going back and forth in time as I tell you these things as they come to my mind. The director of the School of Public and Nonprofit Administration had retired, and during that year that they were doing a search I was the co-director of the School of Public and Nonprofit Administration along with Mike Mast, and I found out I loved it. I loved academic administration, it was so much fun. I really thoroughly enjoyed it. And so we conducted the search and we hired a really good person. So, that worked really well. I did not apply for that job, that’s not the job I wanted, but I really enjoyed the year that I did the administration. And actually the Dean of Social Sciences at the time, Jonathan White, asked me, probably fall semester of 2000, if I would consider being assistant dean, and I gave that a lot of thought and I said yes that I would do that. But before I could do anything deanly, the opening at the Johnson Center occurred and so they started talking to me about that. And that really was where my passion was to be honest. So Jonathan was very supportive in my saying, oh, never mind about the dean thing, I think I am going to take this new direction and take the job at the Johnson Center. And by this time it was the Johnson Center. (JS): Now, at this point did you know Dottie Johnson herself pretty well or does that come later? (DVI): I did not know her well. I knew who she was of course and I knew her reputation and had met her, but I did not know her well enough to say that that was the reason for taking the job. (JS): Now, you come into the job that started that in 2001 then was that your official take up? (DVI): I think about January. (JS): Where would you say the center was in terms of its evolution or development at the point when you came into it? 00:33:43 (DVI): You know Tom Jeavons as the first director had done a great job of establishing a really good curriculum along with the faculty. He also established a national reputation with his own scholarship. So, he was a really good director in terms of getting it off the ground and he also introduced it well to the university itself and got faculty interested in service learning even just kind of understanding that whole concept and the idea that we could have a grant to do some work. And then the next director, Dott Freeman, really pushed that even farther. And both of them by the way were on the faculty in the School of Public and Nonprofit Administration and were excellent teachers and their classes were very popular and so on. So they did great at that and were wonderful colleagues. Dott really pushed the service learning and helped faculty see how they could use grants to enhance their own scholarship and service. And, she worked in the community. She started to do some research on the community I think one of the first projects that I thought was really exciting was the impact of the nonprofit sector on the economy in our area. I think it was a billion dollar impact and it was really terrific to see that kind of scholarship beginning to come out of the center. So, when I took over we had an assistant, Pat Nanzer, and a couple of grad students. That was it, in terms of staffing. (JS): What did you see as your sort of first priority when you came in? Was it just to keep the place running or did you have an idea of some direction you wanted to go? 11 �(DVI): Keep the place running? No. I was just so excited to have the opportunity to move things along. I think the first thing I wanted to do was to really make the Johnson Center visible, both at the university and in the community and nationwide. I just felt like we had a great opportunity to do all three things. So, I really started looking at visibility what we were doing in each of those three areas that we could do better and do more of and really increase our visibility. So one of the first things we tackled was really, Pat and I looking at what were we doing and how could we get a better, some publicity, some visibility. So we did a brochure. We never had a brochure before that was like this. So we did a brochure that really looked at all the things we did within the university, in the community, and we had some really interesting ideas about what we could do nationally as well. (JS): What can you do to raise your profile nationally? Or what did you try to do to get more of that kind of attention? (DVI): Well, we knew what we needed was a scholar who could really make a contribution to the national scene and we were so fortunate to be able to have Dr. Joel Orosz from the Kellogg Foundation join us as distinguished professor, and that just kind of sealed it as far as the national part of it was concerned, because he already had the national reputation, and great ideas, a great colleague, and so, he could spearhead us right into that national arena just perfectly. (JS): Does that start moving into the area of organizing conferences or publications or other kinds of things? 00:37:35 (DVI): The other colleague I had in the beginning was Margaret Sellers Walker who absolutely was fabulous and she was so connected in the community. She was involved in everything. She was smart and wise and, great ideas. My husband used to call she and I the dynamic duo because we were always strategizing on ways to make something work and to get our students involved in projects and get involved in the community. So she and I had looked at what we could do in the community and at about that time the Direction Center had ended. There was a real need for some executive training in the nonprofit arena. So, we envisioned I think we called it the executive series Nonprofit, I think we called it 201 or 101 or something, but it was the nonprofit leadership piece for directors who wanted to get in on some of the cutting edge management literature and really hone their executive skills. So, I was able to hire her with a grant from the center, with funds from the center, it takes at least half of her time from the School of Public Administration which she was on the faculty, and really focus her time on the nonprofit leadership part. So that was our community piece and then Pat Nanzer, who was my assistant at the time, really took over the university initiatives with the service learning and looking at other grant requests that came in. We kind of had a threefold thing going where we had the university initiatives where we were really looking at ways to involve faculty members in service learning and research. And then we had our community piece with the nonprofit leadership and we developed a number of seminars, and programs and involvements there. Then we had research, which was CRI, by then I had been able to raise more money from the Grand Rapids Community Foundation and get that going really well with a lot of applied research. And then we had the national piece with Joel Orosz and there we had a grant from Kellogg for I think it was $990,000 when he came and we were able to do what we called a knowledge management initiative which was to start the nonprofit good practice guide. These things we did after he arrived trying to 12 �figure out how are we were going to share knowledge in the field, you know good practices, share that with the nonprofit and philanthropy sector. So, that was his initiative at the time, and then later that moved into The Grantmaking School which was so exciting. We, under his leadership, launched that, and that’s been I think quite successful as well. (JS): Can you describe a little bit what The Grantmaking School does? (DVI): Yes, we really looked at what do grantmakers, people who work for foundations whether it’s community foundations, private foundations, what kind of information do they need to know to be really good grantmakers and to make good decisions, to be good stewards with the money. With all of his experience Joel knew that really well, and so we began to develop a curriculum that we would take on the road, and we knew that we needed to get the message out to the field. They didn’t have a lot of time to leave their offices and come to Grand Rapids of all places to learn anything. So, we really saw right away that we needed to take it into the field so we conducted the classes all over the country. (JS): Now, if you are going out across the country, are there many other places that do this? (DVI): No. At the time we did it, there wasn’t anybody doing exactly this. We really modeled it after The Fundraising School that Indiana University was doing. And in fact, if I back up a little bit, we had partnered with them and brought The Fundraising School to West Michigan by the way. But anyway, we thought that’s the kind of model that we could use to develop The Grantmaking School, so we learned a lot from their experience with The Fundraising School, and so we started The Grantmaking School. (JS): So, how did the road show get funded? Did that have grant money of its own? (DVI): It was funded from the Kellogg Foundation with startup funds and then we charged for the classes and worked towards making it self-sustaining. (JS): Is this an ongoing thing? Is the Johnson Center still doing this? (DVI): Yes, as far as I know. (JS): Alright. I guess you retired in 2005, was it at the end of the year? (DVI): Right in the middle, in the summer. (JS): So you were in charge for about four and half years before you do that. (DVI): (Nodding) (JS): If you look back on that time, what would you say maybe was your most significant accomplishment or what are you most proud of having done? (DVI): Well certainly the Community Research Institute is a big part of that, cause that was something that I was able to, it was like you can see the idea and you can see it through and see the accomplishments already because I hired an intern from I think he was at Cleveland State. I hired him to come and do the GIS. He was a student and now he is directing the CRI which is really fun for me to see, and all the projects that we did when I look back on the kinds of things 13 �that we did. We had something like 25 grad students working, we had a number of full time staffers, and we accomplished so much and made so many contributions I think to things that were going on in the area. I was fortunate to be involved in the Delta Strategy which came out of that Fred Keller, Diana Sieger thing that I told you about that wanted to get the university involved, that was really the beginning of looking at data driven decision making for nonprofits. Really, how can we measure the work that we’re doing, and how do we know what to work on and if we are making a difference. And so the time was right for a capacity in the community to be able to do that kind of measurement, and that really is what was behind CRI. How can we provide that data out there and make it available to anyone who is on the ground trying to make a difference in the community. So, I would say that’s one of the things I am most proud of. 00:44:44 (JS): Just to explain a little bit, can you give an example of the kind of data that would be collected. What sort of information would you get and what would somebody do with it? (DVI): There were a couple of different things that we looked at, one was just collecting census data and organizing it in a way that could be used. We looked at poverty and there was a real poverty initiative going on in the community, and there wasn’t a lot of information on what that meant for people. So, we put out just a little one page thing that we called, In-brief: Poverty, and it had the statistics that related to what does that mean for someone to be in poverty. So, we used statistics that were already out there but we formulated them in a way that could be used and make sense to people who were working in the field. We also worked with Delta Strategy and put out a community report card that was inserted in the Grand Rapids Press. And it was a long process of identifying indicators in the community that were important to the community, and then it was our job to find the data and sometimes that was really hard because the community would want to know some kind of information that absolutely was not available because nobody was collecting it. And so part of what we did was raise the awareness that we needed to be collecting data so that we would have it to work with. So that was one of the issues that was in terms of data. But the other part of it is program evaluation. If you’re a nonprofit, one of the things that you want to be able to do is to tell your story to your potential donors, let them know that you are being effective in your work. And you can’t do that really well without data to back up your stories of success. You really need some data, and so we really got involved in doing a lot of program evaluation as well as collecting data, and then we did surveys. If you’re going to tackle a particular issue in the community, you need some data to work with, what are people thinking about it, what are they doing? So we did several years’ worth of community surveys where we actually surveyed thousands of people in the community and asked them questions about how they were living and what their opinions were on different things. So we just raised the whole area of working in community and in nonprofits and using data to drive that work and to tell a story of what’s being done. That was exciting work. (JS): What do you think was the most challenging aspect of the job as director of the center? (DVI): Probably trying to do all the good things that we did on a shoe string. We had good funding, don’t get me wrong, and we had good support from the university and from the Kellogg Foundation and from the Grand Rapids Community Foundation and others. But it still is challenging to always find the money to do the work that you want to get done, and I had such fabulous staff and grad students who worked harder than anybody I’ve ever seen to accomplish 14 �these things. I think that was a challenge. And working on community is always a challenge too. You know we talk a lot about collaboration and collaboration is never easy. It’s always hard and if you’re looking at nonprofits and community, trying to collaborate to accomplish things there are a lot of difficulties associated with that because everybody has their own individual mission statement, their own individual turf, and then you try to combine those together for the good of the community, and that’s hard sometimes. It’s really hard work. It’s rewarding but there’s a lot of hard issues in that. But it was really fun to be a part of all that was going on in the community at that time. (JS): Is sort of creating evaluation tools or actually using them, does that get tricky? They don’t want to be told, they’re not doing what they said they were doing? (DVI): Absolutely. You know we’re limited by the tools themselves and I guess you’d call it the technology of evaluation, you can’t always measure everything you want to measure and you have to figure out how to get a proxy for that and whether it makes sense or not. So it’s really a challenge to design a really good evaluation and it’s a challenge to deliver the story if it’s not a positive one to your client. (JS): At another level it would seem to me that if you’re being successful with a lot of your initiatives part of what would happen is you would see a lot more things that needed to get done. So you might have accomplished a lot but you keep seeing all the rest of it. Does that happen? (DVI): Oh yes. Margaret Sellers Walker used to say that you never finish the job. And I think about it kind of like a conveyor belt. And you’re on this conveyor belt, and while you’re in this scene at this particular place you do what you can, and then it keeps moving but there are more people coming along with new and fresh ideas. And so it continues along but, the problems change a little bit but you still have some pretty intractable social problems when you’re talking about people. So it’s always good to get those fresh ideas coming into the scene and that’s exciting too. You do your part while you are there and then you know that good people are going to come along behind you and keep it going. (JS): Now, you retire in 2005, what have you done since then? Do you feel like you’ve stopped? 00:50:43 (DVI): I guess I thought I’d have started something new again. The first year that I was retired I think I was mentally just exhausted. I had worked really, really hard. And I decided that I would accept no assignments, no projects, and I would read no professional literature. I know this sounds terrible coming from an academic but I just thought I was going to focus on my health. And so, I lost a lot of weight, which I can’t say is still gone. I walked two miles every day, I went to the fitness center and worked out a couple of times a week, I took a yoga class, all those things that I did not have time for. (JS): So you were saying basically you kind of took that first year off to physically get yourself on the right track. (DVI): Get rejuvenated. (JS): Then at a certain point did you feel you had to get back into things? 15 �(DVI): I did. I joined the board at the Holland Zeeland Community Foundation. I live in Holland, so I loved that. That was fun. However my husband who was already retired, it was one of my reasons for retiring was because he’d already been retired and the timing was kind of good for both of us to go do fun things for a while. So we decided to buy a house in Florida, so we started wintering in Florida. So that was kind of the end to the board work. But I took up golf and line dancing things that no one who knows me when I was here could ever belief that I was doing any of those things. So now I play golf and I line dance and do a number of hobbies and it’s very different. (JS): And do you pay any attention at all to what’s going on in the philanthropy profession at any level? (DVI): Oh, yes. You know you can’t ignore that. It’s just a part of you once you worked in it. And so I do. I read about it. I look at a lot of things that are going on but just not actively involved in it anymore. 00:52:55 16 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7831d9bd5e8cf0dd5bf83d5f6bca4dda.mp4 6f3b215d0986c283d272c512dbba527b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project Interviews Subject The topic of the resource Philanthropy and society--Personal narratives Family foundations--Michigan Charities--Michigan Description An account of the resource The Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project (MPOHP) was initiated in 2006 as an innovative partnership between the Council of Michigan Foundations, StoryCorps, Michigan Radio and the Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership at Grand Valley State University to create an oral history of Michigan philanthropy. Additional video interviews were created by the Johnson Center for Philanthropy to add to the depth and breadth of the collection. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/516">Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project (MPOHP) (JCPA-08). Johnson Center for Philanthropy Archives</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-05-02 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Sound Text Moving Image Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf video/mp4 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JCPA-08 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2006-2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson Center for Philantrhopy Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource StoryCorps (Project) Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/516">Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project (JCPA-08)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Van Iwaarden, Donna, video interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Iwaarden, Donna Description An account of the resource Donna Van Iwaarden, former director of the Johnson Center for Philanthropy at Grand Valley State University discusses her early life, education, family, and work at the University of North Carolina, Grand Valley State University’s School of Public and Nonprofit Administration, and the Johnson Center for Philanthropy. She discusses the development of the Community Research Institute (CRI) and The Grantmaking School. She describes her role as the director of the Johnson Center in creating nonprofit training, university initiatives, and research, and her efforts to increase the visibility of the Johnson Center in the university, in the community, and at national level. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership, Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Philanthropy and society Personal narratives Charities Michigan Grand Rapids (Mich.) Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership Women Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JCPA-08_VanIwaardenD Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Relation A related resource Johnson Center for Philanthropy Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-08-23 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/81a4cfca178c81f71de888af4d6316aa.pdf 6b19a8f43b364db39a035a2f4186165c PDF Text Text ·oNTVANGEN TELEXBERICHT/11~ · _: I, ~tvevL - Rijksarb. Bur. GV. ~o. A - 143 = = 21 Mei 1942"= V; Afd. A.B. ~u. u8. Aan den Heer Directeur van het Gewestelijk Arbeidsbureau te AL KM A A Betr. ·: Ont slag P. 'l'ermaat. In antwoord op Uw brief van 4 Mei 1~42 ~r. D ~71 afd. Dir., deel ik U mede, dat op grond van een schrijven van President Boening geen ontslag mag warden verleend aan hen, die zulks verzoeken wegens gewetensbez~aren tegen het uitvoeren van de verordening inzake de dienstverplichting. _; Het verzoek van den Heer P. 'l'ermaat lean ik derhal ve niet inwillige.Q uw brief Uw voorstel tot aanstelling van den Heer J.F. Eckhardt, vervac in van 8 Mei l';l42 l'-lO. D 78 '( afd. Dir., komt derhalve ,:;e vervallen. de Directeur-Generaal van het Rij ksar.-beid sbureau, ·v _o or den Directeur-Generaal, Th. van Lier. lb.20 + Jr.rans la tion To th ~ Reg i~nallDi rector. _ . In A.nsVler -to y--our letter of 4 May 1 9 4-2 Nr. D. :,71 sfd. Dir., I -notify jbu that on ~he basis of a d irecti~e f~o~ President B6ening ( a Germ~n r~zi) no discha~g e may be · nrovidt:>d. to thos·e, v.• no do reo ues t th is on tha basis cif · cons ci entious ob~ec::--:-u~o/inst the execu.tion of tne lhrechve on t he 1(1. bor IJrc'l · t · I ca nnot- grant the request of Mr . P. rre rmaa-c . _ . Your proposal to nbmina te t fr. J . F. "Sckhard -c · ( a Dutch_ Naz~) contained in y·our 1e tter from 8 May 1 9 ~~ Ho_. . D 'J'dJ afd. 1 i±r. ,is hereby ·declared void . s i gned Th e Director-General of. the Fede r a l Vi.bar · Placement Office, Th . van Lier · ;_ Af'gegeven aan: Directeur Adj .Direciteu.r A.A. Comptabilitei t Verkeer. J � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman) Termaat, Peter N. Description An account of the resource Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar. Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1869 - 2012 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144</a> Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945 World War, 1939-1945 World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands Dutch Dutch Americans Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text Image Type The nature or genre of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng nl Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144_Termaat_COR_1942-05-21-Govt-response-to-Pieters-resignation-361 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Lier, Th. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1942-05-21 Title A name given to the resource Conscientious Resignation response Description An account of the resource Response to Pieter Termaat's conscientious resignation letter from the Director-General of the Federal Labor Placement Office, Th. Van Lier. In Dutch, with English translation. Subject The topic of the resource Dutch Conscientious objection Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource nl eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/898e88600db780511f057cebb6df1412.mp4 2f3424984d81c738af9126b58028c22b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d31f05491f6e9b19c856a54a925723d9.pdf 71cac5d62b7bc2d03239b1a5ae08a611 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project William Van Luyn Part 1 World War II Interview Length: (02:15:28:00) Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:14:00)  Van Luyn was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on May 22nd, 1925; Van Luyn lived practically his whole life in the northeast end of the city (00:00:14:00)  Van Luyn’s father had moved from New York to Grand Rapids to learn about the furniture industry in the city and worked at several furniture manufacturers around the city until the Great Depression hit (00:00:33:00) o Once the Depression hit, Van Luyn’s father was out of work like everyone else and had a tough time scraping along, like everyone else (00:00:53:00)  Although he was young during the Depression, Van Luyn remembers a lot of what his family went through (00:00:59:00)  Van Luyn’s father eventually managed to find work through the WPA (Works Progress Administration) (00:01:04:00)  Before having to look elsewhere, Van Luyn’s father was so good at running all the machines in a furniture factory that when the owner of the factory had to lay everyone else off because of the Depression, he only kept Van Luyn’s father (00:01:42:00)  Van Luyn’s father finished up any random orders that the factory still had and once those were gone, the factory owner asked the father if he would work as the night watchman (00:01:57:00) o Van Luyn can remember going with his father to the factory and staying overnight (00:02:11:00)  Eventually, the Depression became so bad that the factory owner had Van Luyn’s father help board up the windows (00:02:34:00)  Later on, the factory owner stopped by the Van Luyn’s home and said he had received a phone call from a furniture factory owner in Gardner, Massachusetts who needed someone to run all the machines, so Van Luyn’s father went to Massachusetts (00:03:16:00)  Van Luyn’s father would send his paycheck from the factory home every week and took a small night job at a store to pay for his room and food (00:03:33:00)  Van Luyn’s father stayed in Massachusetts until Van Luyn’s younger sister was going to be born, then he came back (00:03:43:00) o As the start of World War II grew closer, Van Luyn’s father was able to get a job working at Metal Office Furniture, which later changed its name to Steelcase (00:04:07:00)  Van Luyn’s father worked second shift and was able to ride a bus from his home to the factory; however, when he would get out at 2 a.m., the buses were not running and he would have to walk home (00:04:16:00) �    At the time Van Luyn was going through school, high school started at 7th grade; he was going to school with older guys almost as big as his dad, which made him feel like a little ant (00:05:12:00) o Van Luyn liked sports, so as soon as he was old enough to play, he did; his parents did not want him to play football because he had already broken his left elbow twice (00:05:42:00)  However, he finally convinced his parents to let him play football and in tenth grade, he played for the junior varsity; however, instead of breaking his elbow, he broke his leg (00:05:58:00) o After breaking his leg, Van Luyn played basketball and baseball (00:06:09:00) When the attack on Pearl Harbor happened, Van Luyn’s family was at home; someone heard about the attack on the radio, yelled for everyone, and everyone gathered around the radio to listen (00:06:19:00) o Van Luyn had three sisters, two older and one younger, and all three were very upset about the attack (00:06:33:00) o Prior to the attack, Van Luyn had not been paying much attention to what was happening with the war; he knew the war was going on but that was the extent of his knowledge (00:06:51:00) o After Pearl Harbor, some of the guys in school with Van Luyn went off to enlist; however, Van Luyn himself was only sixteen, and that seemed like it was a long ways away (00:07:28:00)  The boyfriend of Van Luyn’s oldest sister was called in either the first or second draft (00:07:37:00)  Although some people did voluntarily enlist, either in the American or Canadian militaries, there were not a lot of them (00:07:48:00) Van Luyn graduated from high school in 1943, a week-and-a-half after he turned eighteen years old (00:08:19:00) o Less than a month later, Van Luyn had received his draft notice; he had planned on going regardless and never gave much thought about enlisting or just going through the draft (00:08:29:00) After receiving his draft notification, Van Luyn, along with the other new recruits, were sent to Detroit to go through a physical (00:08:48:00) o At the time, Van Luyn had really bad vision in his left eye; the vision in the eye was practically nothing, only 2400/20 (00:08:56:00) o As soon as the doctors checked his eyes during the physical, Van Luyn was rejected; Van Luyn and the other men who were rejected during the physical were sent home on trains (00:09:06:00)  Whereas some of the men were crying because they had passed the physical, Van Luyn was crying because he had failed (00:09:16:00) o After a week or two, Van Luyn and a friend who had also been rejected went down to the draft board to see if they could go again; although the woman in charge of the draft board said she could not send them for another six months, they eventually convinced her to send them with the next group (00:09:27:00)  Although Van Luyn had a hard time passing the physical the second time, he ended up talking with a captain and explain that he had been hunting for several years and was a good shot (00:10:02:00) �  The captain claimed it was against his better judgment but he would place Van Luyn in limited service; Van Luyn would never go overseas and would either had a desk job or train other soldiers (00:10:16:00) o Van Luyn was finally able to enlist in October 1943 (00:10:32:00) After enlisting, Van Luyn reported to Fort Custer in Kalamazoo, Michigan; Van Luyn spent a week or two at the fort before spending another week or two at Fort Sheridan in Illinois and finally ending up at Camp Ellis, which was also in Illinois, where he began his training (00:10:38:00) o Peoria, Illinois was probably the closest major town to the camp but even it was fifty to sixty miles away (00:10:59:00) o Apart from going through regular basic training at Camp Ellis, Van Luyn also went through training to build bridges and roads (00:11:23:00) o Going through the regular basic training was a little rough for Van Luyn (00:11:40:00)  He remembers going out to the rifle range, which was one of the first things the men did, and they all had to qualify; expert was the best anyone could get, followed by sharpshooter (which Van Luyn received) and marksman (00:11:45:00)  If someone scored below marksman, he had to keep going back to the rifle range until he qualified (00:12:04:00) o While at Camp Ellis, Van Luyn was shocked to see German POWs (Prisoners of War); he had no idea that there were any POWs in the U.S. (00:12:15:00)  The POWs at the camp were crack Nazi troops and they would go on various repair and maintenance assignments (00:12:22:00)  Although he is not sure exactly how many POWs there were, Van Luyn saw between thirty and fifty at a time (00:12:36:00)  While at the rifle range, after Van Luyn’s group finished, they were told to step back; being just out of high school, the men soon started screwing around (00:12:56:00)  The parents of one of the other men were both German and he spoke some German; as the men were fooling around, some of the German POWs were nearby and the man heard them comment about how bad of soldiers the men were (00:13:23:00) o Van Luyn and the other men did not know how to attack or how to march, etc. but the POWs could not figure out how the men could shoot so straight (00:13:35:00) o When Van Luyn arrived at Camp Ellis, he was placed in 3rd Platoon, “B” Company, 1303rd Engineer General Service Regiment (00:13:59:00)  Most of the other men in the company had been in the unit for four or five months by the time Van Luyn and some of the other new recruits joined; this meant the new recruits had no chance of attaining a higher rank within the company (00:14:11:00)  Being in a General Service regiment meant that although the men would deploy overseas, they would not serve in a combat zone (00:14:55:00)  The men would operate well back from the front lines, buildings things such as hospitals, roads, etc. (00:15:03:00) � Early on, the Engineering Corps realized that if men were to be building things and carrying materials, they needed to be working with men their own size (00:15:26:00)  When Van Luyn joined the regiment, there were six companies, “A” thru “F” plus a non-worker company, and the men were placed into the companies by height (00:15:44:00) o “A” Company only had soldiers who were over 6’; Van Luyn was 6’ even at the time, so he was placed in “B” Company (00:15:59:00)  “F” Company was also small soldiers but they were all tough; the company eventually earned the nickname “The Mighty Midgets” (00:16:07:00)  Every day after training, each of the six companies organized a basketball team and they would play in the rec hall at night (00:16:29:00)  Van Luyn was in good shape and was selected to join the team from “B” Company (00:16:39:00)  During one game, a couple of Van Luyn’s friends ran into the rec hall, said that Van Luyn was supposed to be getting his overseas shots, and the medics were mad as hell that he was not down there because he was the only person in the company who had not received the shots (00:16:51:00) o Van Luyn pulled on an overcoat and ran about three blocks through the snow (00:17:19:00) o The medics gave Van Luyn all three of the shots, he pulled the overcoat back on, went back to the rec-hall, and went back into the game (00:17:37:00) o Thinking back, Van Luyn is amazed that he did not have any sores arms, nausea, headache, etc. (00:18:01:00) o Van Luyn’s company left Camp Ellis early in 1944 and ended up going to Boston, Massachusetts; in Boston, the men boarded a ship, which left Boston Harbor in March 1944 (00:19:27:00) o During the training, Van Luyn’s regimental commander was a “GI Officer” and he wanted the regiment to be better than every other company (00:20:07:00)  Eventually, after the men would complete their basic training for the day, they would have to go on five-mile marches during the night; it was rough for all the men because they were tired and more so for some of the older men, who could only walk a mile or two (00:20:22:00)  Over time, the marches became longer, culminating in a thirty-mile march that the men had to start on a Saturday morning (00:20:52:00)  By the time the regiment returned from the march, Van Luyn figures that no more than 30% of all the men in the regiment actually completed it (00:21:05:00)  After completing the thirty-mile march, the regimental commander told the men that they would have the big march following week and that when they did deploy overseas most of the men were not going to be coming back alive (00:21:20:00) � However, the regimental commander promised that if everyone walked every step in the next march, he would make sure each man was able to go home for three days, regardless of where the man lived (00:21:33:00)  The next hike was to be 125 miles and although the men thought the commander was kidding (they had never heard of anyone doing a march that long), he was not (00:21:52:00)  The following Saturday, the men started out and each passing day was more brutal than the one before (00:22:04:00)  The cooks would always go ahead of the rest of the soldiers and set up in a field where they were supposed to be, so that when the men arrived, there would be coffee and food waiting (00:22:18:00)  During the first night, Van Luyn did not want coffee or anything else; he just wanted to sleep and get of his feet (00:22:26:00)  Van Luyn went to sleep around midnight and at one o’clock, someone was kicking his feet to wake him up; everyone was to get up and fall in because the regiment was moving out (00:22:51:00)  Those men who could get their boots on could not even lace them up because their feet were so swollen and covered in blisters; most of the men ended up having to cut holes in their boots to let their feet spread out (00:23:10:00)  The march took three and a half days and during the last day and a half, the men were walking on their senses; if someone passed out in front of them, the men’s brains would not tell them to stop and they would fall over them (00:23:35:00)  The day after the men returned to camp from the march, the commander made the men fall out and march around the camp, just to show the other units what the men had done (00:24:15:00)  The commander ended up giving the men who completed the march certificates saying that they had walked every step; however, there were very few of them (00:24:37:00)  Ultimately, the commander allowed all of the men, regardless of whether they had walked the entire way or not during the march, to have a threeday pass to go home (00:24:54:00)  Although Van Luyn was glad all the men received passes, looking back, he wonders why he did all the walking if he knew he was going to receive the pass regardless (00:25:02:00) o Once they finished with the training, Van Luyn and the other soldiers were just waiting to receive orders (00:25:28:00)  On many days, the commanders did not know what to do with the men, so they would give the men jobs to keep them busy (00:25:31:00)  One day, a sergeant came around and told the men to fall out, they were going to “police up” the area (00:25:40:00) � o However, it was around the first of March, which meant it was still fairly cold and there was a foot of snow still on the ground (00:25:45:00)  Another day, Van Luyn was walking along the path that had been shoveled to his barracks and there was a package of Lucky Strike cigarettes frozen under the ice (00:25:57:00) o Prior to the war, Lucky Strikes came in a green package but the package under the ice was white; the company had adopted the slogan “green goes to war” (00:26:16:00) o As Van Luyn walked past the package, a sergeant ordered him to pick it up; Van Luyn laughed because he thought the sergeant was joking (00:26:30:00) o When Van Luyn asked, the sergeant told him to do it or he was going to court-martial Van Luyn (00:26:43:00) o Although the situation eventually blew over, from that point forward, Van Luyn did not get along with that sergeant, who always tried to pick on Van Luyn, who in turn picked on the sergeant (00:26:58:00)  The soldiers always pulled pranks on each other (00:27:24:00)  One of the men was from India and he would sleep on one of the top bunks in the barracks (00:27:31:00) o The man was a sound sleeper and one Sunday, while the man slept, Van Luyn and the other men took his bunk off the other bunk, carried both the bunk and the man outside, and left them in the middle of the parade ground, which was covered in deep snow (00:27:38:00) o All the men went back into the barracks and watched as the man first pulled his covers up high, then over his head, and then finally woke up (00:28:01:00) o The man started cursing the others, who went out and carried both the bunk and the man back into the barracks (00:28:21:00) o Although the man laughed once the others had carried him back inside the barracks, he was “madder than hell” while he was outside (00:28:34:00)  There were other pranks involving soldiers going on leave but Van Luyn does not think he can tell those stories (00:28:43:00) On the whole, Van Luyn did enjoy some parts of the six months that he was involved in training (00:28:57:00) o There were men in Van Luyn’s unit from thirty-nine different states, which meant Van Luyn was able to meet some really nice people and was able to make some really good friendships (00:29:02:00) o Van Luyn also liked going to the rifle range and some of the other training the men did (00:29:21:00)  Originally, Van Luyn was assigned to be a rifle grenadier, although he did not know what that assignment was (00:29:25:00) �  Rifle grenadiers fired roughly foot-long rockets from the end of their rifles, so the commanders took away Van Luyn’s M-1 Garand away and gave him a World War One-era M1903 Springfield bolt-action rifle (00:29:34:00)  On order to fire the rocket, an attachment went on the end of Van Luyn’s rifle and he used blank .30 caliber cartridges, which did not have a bullet (00:29:54:00)  During the training, there was an old tank parked on the rifle range for Van Luyn and the other rifle grenadiers to aim at for target practice (00:30:15:00)  The first time he fired the rocket, it scared Van Luyn because the gun powder went into his right eye; because he was blind in his left eye, Van Luyn did not think it was a good idea for him to be a rifle grenadier (00:30:21:00)  Van Luyn went to one of his commanders, explained the situation, and the commander agreed, so Van Luyn was assigned to be a regular rifleman again and was given his M-1 back (00:30:38:00)  Van Luyn was considered a “rough carpenter” and would help construct any bridges that the unit might need (00:31:07:00)  There were several different types of bridges, including the Bailey Bridge, which was built in sections that were extremely heavy and required four men to carry at once, regular fixed wooden bridges, and pontoon bridges, both metal and rubber (00:31:21:00) When Van Luyn did finally go home before going overseas, it was great to be able to go home (00:32:38:00) o Van Luyn remembers he and some of the other soldiers waiting a long time to get aboard a bus when they were anxious to get home (00:32:47:00)  When the men got into Chicago, they waited several hours for a bus; however, the words of the commander, who said it might be the last time the men ever see their family, weighed heavily on the men and Van Luyn remembers looking to see if nearby cars had keys in them (00:32:59:00)  If one of the cars did, Van Luyn and some of his friends would have stolen the car, driven it to Grand Rapids, and left it there; although Van Luyn hates to admit thinking about doing that, he and the other men wanted to get home (00:33:21:00)  As it was, Van Luyn and the other men ended up waiting for the bus, which cost them three hours of their leave (00:33:41:00) o While he was home Van Luyn did not tell his parents or anyone else that it might be the last time he ever saw them (00:33:53:00) Deployment to Europe (00:34:16:00)  After returning to Camp Ellis, Van Luyn and the other soldiers went by train to Boston, where they spent a brief amount of time before boarding a ship and sailing out (00:34:16:00) �o Van Luyn had always suffered from motion sickness, ever since he was a young child; therefore, Van Luyn was not looking forward to the prospect of being on a ship to go overseas (00:34:47:00) o The men spent fourteen days on the ship and Van Luyn became so weak because he was not able to eat anything, apart from a few crackers and a little bit of Coke that the other men would bring him (00:35:43:00) o Van Luyn does not know exactly how long the ship was at sea because it was zigzagging to avoid German U-Boats (00:36:10:00)  Although the ship was part of a large convoy, Van Luyn does not know how many other ships there were (00:36:18:00) o The ship the men were on was the U.S.S. Argentina, which had been a cruise ship before the war that had been converted to be a troop transport (00:36:32:00) o The first night after the ship left Boston, Van Luyn was assigned to guard-duty; although he was still sick, he was not weak (00:36:55:00)  When Van Luyn reported to start his duty, the ship was in the middle of a terrible storm, with waves crashed against the ship, causing it to rock back and forth (00:37:17:00)  Van Luyn knew that if he did not hold on to something, he was going to be washed over the side; however, instead of going to the railing on the edge of the ship, he stood against a bulkhead, grabbed some pipe running along the bulkhead and held on as best he could (00:37:25:00)  Rather quickly, Van Luyn went back inside and leaned against the door so that no one else could go outside (00:37:58:00) o The next day, Van Luyn told some of his friends what had happened and they asked Van Luyn to some them where he had been (00:38:06:00)  When the men opened the door Van Luyn had leaned against, they saw there was a life raft that had had its entire bottom ripped off; Van Luyn figures that had he stayed out there much longer, he would have been washed overboard (00:38:18:00)  Van Luyn remembers telling the man who relieved not to go outside because he would be washed overboard (00:38:39:00) o After a handful of days, the men had a fire drill, which involved all the men getting on the deck of the ship (00:38:49:00)  However, Van Luyn was already too weak to move, so he told the other men to go without him; given where his bunk was located, Van Luyn was relatively sure no one would notice him (00:39:06:00)  Van Luyn did not realize they would do a roll call, so when a major called out his name and he did not respond, the major asked where he was and his friends explain Van Luyn was too sick to make it (00:39:24:00)  The major ordered two of the men to get Van Luyn and when they came down, they explained the situation and helped carry Van Luyn up to the deck (00:39:49:00)  Once Van Luyn got into his position, the major took one look at him and said “soldier, where is your life jacket”; Van Luyn had been using the life jacket as a pillow and had forgotten it (00:40:17:00) �   The major ordered Van Luyn to go back and get his life jacket, which was vital in case there was a fire or the ship was hit by a torpedo and the men had to go into the water (00:40:34:00)  Van Luyn did go back but he was so exhausted by the time he got to his bunk that he had to rest for a couples of minutes before trying to make his way back to the deck (00:40:47:00)  Van Luyn had just made it through the first set of water-tight doors when the major came through the other and said he was just coming down to see where Van Luyn was (00:41:03:00)  Van Luyn became sick at that moment and tried to step around the major to get on deck; however, the major had more to say and stepped to block Van Luyn (00:41:16:00)  Van Luyn could not hold it anymore and vomited all over the major’s suntan shirt and pants (00:41:36:00)  The major then said, “soldier, you really are sick” and the only thing Van Luyn could do was nod his head (00:41:44:00)  The major never held the incident against Van Luyn; he knew Van Luyn could not help what he did (00:42:01:00) o When he was younger, Van Luyn saw the war movies of the men climbing down cargo nets on the sides of ships and going straight into war and Van Luyn figured that was going to be the same thing for him and the other men (00:42:06:00)  Van Luyn was afraid of this possibility because he was too weak to carry his combat pack and rifle (00:42:28:00)  Therefore, when the ship pulled into the harbor in Greenock, Scotland, Van Luyn was very relieved (00:42:38:00) The men were not in Scotland for very long; after they had gotten off the ship, the men were given coffee and donuts, placed on a train, and taken from Greenock to Northampton in England (00:43:04:00) Once the men arrived in Northampton, the men set up six- or eight-man tents in the middle of a field (00:43:36:00) o After they had set up the tents, Van Luyn and a couple other men were told to fall out and get into a weapons carrier, which would take the men and show them what their assignment would be (00:43:47:00)  The three men were taken about a mile away from the camp, to a spot where there was a large cement mixer, and told their assignment was to feed the cement into the mixer; bulldozers would push the necessary dirt over and British trucks would bring in the bags of cement (00:44:06:00)  Each bag of cement weighed around 111lbs and as one man would push the bags from the truck, the other two would carry the bags to a nearby spot where there was a blade sticking out of the ground; the blade would open the bag, which the men would then empty into a hole, which led to an 8in auger (00:44:47:00)  Whereas the other two men were older and developed, Van Luyn was still a skinny kid; although he had gained some of his weight back after being sick on the ship, he still only weighed 150lbs at the most (00:46:16:00) � The three men had to report to next day and as promised, there was a line of British trucks carrying the cement mix (00:46:45:00)  Van Luyn and the two men got into a pretty good rhythm and the work lasted for about a week to a week-and-a-half (00:47:07:00)  The cement was used to build floors for storage areas in a wooded area for mustard gas and bombs (00:47:13:00)  Every time Van Luyn and the other men returned to the camp, they had cement powder stuck all over themselves and their clothes (00:48:05:00)  One day, a colonel came around and said there was mustard gas in some of the drums and that if one started leaking, the men would need to put on their gas masks; to that end, he ordered the men to work for the rest of the day with their gas masks on (00:48:18:00)  The colonel stood by and waited as the three men took out their gas masks and put them on; however, the moment the men had the masks on, the lenses were covered in steam (00:49:05:00)  Soon after, the colonel left and when he did, all three men took the masks off (00:49:49:00) o Most of Van Luyn’s unit did not do anything special in terms of preparing for the upcoming Normandy invasion (00:50:31:00)  However, some of the men were called out for jobs related to the invasion and as with the cement mixer, the men did not know what exactly they were being called out to do (00:50:37:00)  Van Luyn was selected and he and the others were told they were going on detached service, so they loaded onto trucks, which took them to airfields a couples of hours away (00:50:43:00)  The men soon found out that they would be working for the paratroopers in the 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions, who themselves were getting ready for the invasion (00:51:03:00)  Some of the men had to build sandboxes inside a building that were then used as sand maps using small figurines, based on photographs of Omaha and Utah Beaches (00:51:54:00)  Van Luyn himself was put in charge of a small warehouse that housed all the food for the paratroopers (00:52:54:00) o Every day, the mess sergeant would come up to Van Luyn with a list of all the things he would need for the following day (00:53:00:00) o Van Luyn liked the job because he was able to sneak a can of fruit cocktail every so often (00:53:08:00)  Once the men had finished making the sandboxes, a large group of officers went into the building, which the men then wrapped with barbed wire; the men were then given orders that if anyone tried to get in or out of the building, shoot to kill (00:53:21:00)  Van Luyn and the other soldiers took care of everything for the paratroopers so they could focus on the invasions (00:53:54:00) �   The men could tell from the anxiety of the paratrooper officers that the invasions would be soon and everyone assumed that they would be happening on June 5th (00:54:05:00)  When the invasion did happen on June 6th, the men thought it was not a big deal, they had only missed by a day; they did not know that the invasion had been planned for June 6th [originally for June 5, but delayed by weather] (00:54:19:00)  After the invasion, Van Luyn and the other men spent two or three weeks in the area cleaning and taking down some of the buildings (00:54:32:00)  The men were able to get a couple of passes to go into nearby Nottingham (00:54:43:00) In general, the English civilians in the towns did not act real good towards the American soldiers; American Air Corps personnel had been in England for a long time before the infantry forces were stationed there (00:55:13:00) o The men had been cautioned to turn their backs on certain situations and to not get into scraps with others (00:55:32:00) o Although the English girls were friendly towards the soldiers, their parents were less so, although Van Luyn figures he would have been the same way if he was in that situation (00:55:48:00)  Van Luyn remembers that the first day he went into Nottingham, he ended up talking with a couple of girls who were doing defense work in a nearby factory (00:56:05:00)  The girls were from different parts of the country and according to them, it took them three days before they understood what the other was saying (00:56:24:00) Once Van Luyn finally rejoined his regiment, it was not long before the regiment was sent to Southampton, which served as a holding area before units sailed across the Channel to Normandy (00:56:57:00) o While the men were in Southampton, Van Luyn remembers hearing German V-1 rockets, “buzz bombs” (00:57:18:00)  The British tried to shoot the rockets down before they impacted in the cities (00:58:01:00)  The first night the men were in Southampton, a couple of rockets came in in the middle of the night and Van Luyn remembers being woken up by the air-raid sirens (00:58:18:00)  The men rushed into nearby bomb shelters and waited until the “all clear” signal was given, at which point their returned to their tents (00:58:34:00)  An hour or two later, the sirens went off again and the men rushed to the shelters again; although the men could hear the explosions, the bombs were quite a ways away from them (00:58:47:00)  The third time the sirens went up, the men sat up, said “screw it”, laid back down, and went back to sleep (00:59:06:00) �Normandy Invasion / Advance across Europe (00:59:47:00)  When the regiment left Southampton, they sailed across the Channel on the H.M.S. Duke of Wellington and when they arrived in Normandy, they did have to climb down the cargo nets on the side of the ship and get into LCIs (Landing Craft-Infantry) (00:59:47:00) o The men were not attacked when they first landed on the beach; most of the times when they came under fire initially, it was at night and was from the German Luftwaffe (Air Force) (01:00:06:00) o Van Luyn figures his regiment finally arrived in Normandy in the middle to latter part of July, 1944 (01:00:34:00) o When the regiment first landed, Van Luyn remembers seeing a small building which he a couple of buddies figured they should check out (01:01:01:00)  The men pulled the door to the building open and inside was a dead German soldier with a rocket launcher; initially, Van Luyn thought the German was holding an American bazooka but when he looked closer, it saw it was a German rocket launcher (01:01:18:00)  Up until that point, Van Luyn was somewhat naïve enough to think that the Americans were the only ones to have any weapons like that (01:02:10:00) o Once the regiment had landed, the men set about their various assignments, such as repairing roads that had been bombed out (01:02:21:00)  By the time the Allies broke out of Normandy in late July and early August, Van Luyn’s regiment was part of General George Patton’s Third Army (01:03:10:00) o The regiment followed behind the main advance and repaired whatever they could, as well as built a large number of bridges (01:03:18:00)  With the first bridge the men built, the men thought the bridge was fine and vehicles were moving across without much problem (01:03:52:00)  However, it had been raining heavily and in some cases, the rivers overflowed their banks; in some locations, canals ran parallel to the river and when the rivers overflowed, the entire area became a massive river (01:04:02:00)  As towns flooded, empty wine barrels stored behind cafes began floating down the river along with large tree branches and logs, all of which pushed against the new bridge (01:04:21:00)  Eventually, the flotsam was too much, the bridge failed and floated down the river (01:04:48:00)  The men were able to salvage some of the bridge materials, which they recycled to build a new bridge, albeit one that was much higher; from that point forward, the men built the bridges much higher (01:04:57:00) o As the regiment advanced with Third Army, they occasionally came under fire, both from German infantry and the Luftwaffe (01:05:23:00)  As the German forces retreated, they would always destroy any bridges behind them, sometimes destroying only a section and sometimes destroying the entire bridge (01:05:35:00)  Once of the other side, the Germans would set up 88mm cannons, which despite being old, were still very accurate; a lot of times, �the Germans would fire the 88s back at the bridge site not to damage the bridge further but to attack Americans when the Americans arrived (01:05:52:00)  Although the regiment did not have a lot of men killed, the shrapnel from the 88s was still a problem and it was difficult to rebuild the bridges while being shot at (01:06:21:00)  Whenever they would come under fire, the men would either deploy in a defensive formation or call for re-enforcements, although sometimes they did both (01:06:40:00)  Regardless, the men would try to get word back for either the artillery or Air Force to come in and knock the 88s out of their positions (01:06:44:00)  Gen. Patton hated having his tanks sit idle, so he wanted the bridges built as soon as possible (01:06:57:00)  The main worry the men had was the artillery shots or strafing runs would fall short and fail to get over the river (01:07:11:00) o One time, Van Luyn’s platoon was building a small bridge and had already placed the I-beams and had not yet finished the first layer of decking when a jeep pulled up with Gen. Patton in the passenger seat (01:07:54:00)  The general hopped out of the jeep, walked up to the platoon, and said “Men, I have to get across this bridge” (01:08:41:00)  When the men explained that they had not finished the planking, the general grabbed some planks and told some of the men to help him; the men did so and finished laying down the planking, although they did not initially attach it (01:08:52:00)  Van Luyn remembers looking at the pair of ivory-handled revolvers that the general always carried and thinking about asking to see one of the revolvers (01:09:11:00)  Once the planking was down, the general got back into the jeep, thanked the men, and drove across (01:09:34:00) o Van Luyn never went to any of the events or speeches where Gen. Patton was a guest; the incident at the bridge was the only time Van Luyn ever saw the general in person (01:09:49:00) o As the men moved across France, they did have some encounters with the French civilian population (01:10:21:00)  At one point, the men were building a bridge and Van Luyn remembers reading a pamphlet dropped by the Americans that warned the French civilians that there was a German stronghold in the area and the Americans were going to bomb it (01:10:31:00)  Although most of the people temporarily left, some did not and instead went into their basements (01:10:54:00)  One particular building near the bridge sight had been bombed, killing a large number of people in the basement; eventually, the stench from the bodies became too much and the men told French civilians that they needed to remove the bodies (01:11:08:00) �    By the time the French had removed the bodies, the men had already finished the bridge and had moved away (01:11:51:00) A lot of the times, when the men finished a bridge, they had to guard it because the MPs (Military Police) had not yet arrived (01:12:04:00)  One time, Van Luyn was guarding a bridge with another soldier and it was becoming dusk; prior to that, the men had warned the French civilians to be off the street before dark because after dark, the men might mistake them for the enemy (01:12:18:00) o It was not quite dark yet when Van Luyn saw a figure coming across the bridge; having not heard anything from the other side of the bridge, Van Luyn raised his rifle, flipped the safety “off” and said “halt” (01:12:55:00) o The figure stopped and a female voice called out, “don’t shoot, don’t shoot. I’m an English teacher at a French school” (01:13:07:00) o Van Luyn told the teacher to step forward and she showed Van Luyn her credentials (01:13:20:00) o As Van Luyn looked at the credentials, the teacher looked at the ground, where there was a pile of bloody toilet paper from where Van Luyn had earlier cut himself while sharpening a knife (01:13:48:00)  Van Luyn had been unable to stop the bleeding, so he had taken the toilet paper from his K-ration and as one piece would be soaked with blood, he would throw it on the ground (01:13:57:00) o When Van Luyn showed the woman his hand, she said that she would come back and bandage the hand; even though Van Luyn told her not to come back because she would be shot at, she said she would (01:14:08:00) o The woman did come back and bandaged Van Luyn’s hand; when she finished, Van Luyn told her to get home as fast as she could (01:14:23:00) Van Luyn himself never had any encounters with any French women who wanted to get “too friendly”; however, there were other men who did have those encounters and did get into trouble (01:15:03:00) At one point, Van Luyn’s unit was assigned to re-build a bridge and the men knew they needed a crane to remove the damaged parts of the bridge that they could not destroy with explosives, as well as help lay the new Ibeams across the river (01:15:54:00)  As the men drove through a small town near the bridge sight, they realized that they would not be able to fit the crane through the main street of the town (01:16:17:00) o One particular house had a walkway built over the street to the other side, which the family living in the house used to get to a business they owned (01:16:29:00) �  A sergeant told Van Luyn to take a couple of men and to tell the family that the men were going to have to take the walkway off (01:16:52:00)  None of the men spoke French, so when they knocked on the door and a woman opened, they tried to explain what they needed to do; the woman yelled back into the house and more people came to the front (01:17:16:00)  The explanations got nowhere because the family thought they misunderstood what Van Luyn was explaining, so finally, Van Luyn motioned for a truck mounted with an air compressor and chainsaw to come forward (01:17:42:00)  As he started cutting, Van Luyn stopped when he realized that if he cut one end, it was wedge itself in and/or crush the men underneath (01:18:18:00)  Instead, Van Luyn motioned for the crane to come forward and they attached a chain around the middle of the walkway to hold it while Van Luyn cut (01:18:28:00) o Once everything was cut and off, the crane backed up and set the walkway off to the side (01:18:44:00) Prior to the Battle of the Bulge, Van Luyn’s company was stationed in a wooded area near a small town in Luxembourg (01:20:31:00) o At one point, Van Luyn and some other men went into the town and while they were there, an Army truck loaded with gas cans (Jerry cans) drove into the town and the drive asked where another unit was located that he needed to deliver the cans to (01:21:17:00)  Just as the truck went to pull away, Van Luyn noticed smoke coming from the back; Van Luyn yelled for the driver to stop and when Van Luyn told him about the was smoke, the driver that Van Luyn was just messing with him (01:21:44:00)  Van Luyn pulled the driver out and when he saw the smoke, Van Luyn told him they needed to get any civilians out of the area, just in case the cans started blowing up (01:22:04:00)  Once they had gotten everyone back, Van Luyn and his friends, along with the driver, stood back and watched the truck, which had started to burn; as the cans started to explode, everyone back up further (01:22:29:00)  As the men watched the fire, a corporal ran up and said the men needed to pull the driver out; even when Van Luyn pointed out the driver was standing next to them, the corporal continued saying they needed to pull the driver out (01:22:36:00)  The gas cans continued exploding through the night and Van Luyn’s group walked back to the wooded area where the remainder of the company was positioned (01:23:02:00)  Once back in the camp, the corporal went and told the officers how he had risked his own life to run through the flames to pull the driver out and drag him to safety (01:23:16:00) �o The corporal ended up receiving a commendation and a promotion to sergeant (01:23:27:00) o The Battle of the Bulge started soon after and Van Luyn’s company moved out of the area while another unit moved into the woods (01:23:45:00)  Unbeknownst to the men, the Germans had placed a large number of shoemines in the woods but for whatever reason, as they walked through the woods, the men never set any of the mines off (01:24:02:00)  When the next unit moved in, they were not there more than a day before their soldiers started getting their legs blown off (01:24:12:00) Battle of the Bulge (01:24:49:00)  Once the Battle of the Bulge began, Van Luyn’s unit started out repair roads, the main supply routes to the front-line infantry units (01:24:49:00) o The fighting was very intense and as one side would advance or retreat, an area would see more fighting, with some areas being fought over three or more times; in the area where Van Luyn’s unit was located, there was not a tree stump more than 3ft high (01:25:12:00) o When there was a suspicion that German forces would be attacking again, Van Luyn’s unit was used as regular infantry and told to dig in; Van Luyn dug a foxhole that was just deep enough for him to lay in (01:25:27:00)  As Van Luyn laid in the hole, a halftrack pulled up behind him; wanting to be off to the side of the vehicle, Van Luyn got out of his foxhole and dug another one off to the side (01:25:44:00)  Ultimately, the Germans did not attack again and Van Luyn did not have to fire his rifle (01:26:07:00) o A couple of days later, Van Luyn and some other men were walking through the woods when Van Luyn heard voices; he stopped, listened, heard the voices again, continued forward, and recognized it to be female voices (01:26:21:00)  Van Luyn yelled and heard talking in reply, although he could not understand what was being said (01:26:53:00)  Van Luyn and a couple of the other men started clearing away the ground cover and finally uncovered a trap door; inside, there were two women crouched down (01:27:11:00)  The way the women reacted once they were out, someone might have mistaken the men for their long-lost sons or husbands (01:27:58:00) o On a couple of occasions, Van Luyn’s unit was supposed to be the left flank of the entire Third Army (01:29:16:00)  However, one time, the officers either read the maps wrong or somehow became confused because the unit did not know where the American armored and infantry forces were (01:29:23:00)  The men continued advancing forward in their trucks and all of sudden, they spotted tanks positioned ahead of them; however, the tanks were “buttoned up”, which meant they expected to be shot at (01:29:49:00)  Instead of stopping and realizing they were in the wrong place, the trucks continued past the tanks (01:30:22:00) �  As the column continued, the weapons carrier at the front, which had all the officers in it, came under fire and went into a ditch along the side of the road (01:30:52:00) o Although nobody was killed, the men lost the weapons carrier and all their maps (01:31:02:00)  Luckily the tanks were there because once the enemy fire started, the tanks fired back, instantly destroying the enemy positions with a single shot (01:31:08:00) o Quite often, the men traveled in trucks because they were hauling their equipment around as well (01:31:31:00)  Whenever a soldier had to relieve himself, he had to go stand by the tailgate of the truck; however, the tailgate was not very high, so the men seated at the very back would have to hold the belt of the soldier as he relieved himself (01:31:39:00) The largest bridge Van Luyn’s unit ever built was a bridge over the Rhine river into German (01:32:48:00) o One day, Van Luyn was scouting with a couple of other soldiers in a jeep and although they were headed towards the Rhine, they were still quite a few miles away from the river (01:32:53:00)  All of a sudden, there was an awful explosion and Van Luyn thought that the Germans were shelling them (01:33:07:00)  All the men jumped out of the jeep, rolled into the ditch, and laid there, waiting to hear another incoming shell (01:33:14:00)  Eventually, Van Luyn crawled out of the ditch and up and embankment on the other side of the road; at the top of the embankment, he looked down an saw a massive American artillery gun (01:33:25:00)  The explosion the men heard was the sound of the gun firing, lobbing shells twenty-two miles across the Rhine and into Germany (01:33:49:00)  Van Luyn motioned for the other soldiers to come up and they all started talking with the artillery soldiers (01:33:59:00)  As the two groups talked, the artillery soldiers were receiving information from a spotter aircraft about where the previous round had landed, which they then used to adjust the firing angle of the gun (01:34:24:00)  Eventually, the artillery soldiers said they had orders to fire another round, so they told Van Luyn’s men to hold their hands and stand a little back (01:34:38:00)  The gun fired again and the men could see a house about a hundred yards away where the slate roof of the house was sliding due to the concussion of the shot (01:34:48:00)  When the artillery soldiers loaded the gun, they had four men carrying around a trough for the loading, placing first a 100lbs bag of gunpowder in the breech of the gun behind the shell, followed by another 10lbs bag of gunpowder; the shell itself required four men to load (01:35:24:00) �  When the gun fired, it created a perfect smoke ring that just got larger and larger and larger (01:36:17:00) o Once Van Luyn’s unit arrived at the Rhine, they went upstream of the surviving bridge in Remagen that the Germans had failed to blow up and started building another, larger bridge to relieve some of the traffic pressure on the one in Remagen (01:36:54:00)  From what Van Luyn can remember, it only took the unit seventeen days to complete the bridge (01:37:17:00)  The bridge was 55ft high so ships could sail underneath it, although Van Luyn does not remember how long it was (01:37:30:00)  After the bridge was finished, American vehicles were crossing the bridge to the tune of roughly eight thousand a day (01:38:03:00)  Van Luyn remembers that around that time, the soldiers food was taking longer to reach them, so some of the soldiers were pulling the pins from hand grenades and tossing hand grenades into the river; the explosion would stun the fish, allowing the soldiers to gather them up to eat for dinner (01:38:34:00) Once the men had reached and crossed over the Rhine, everything going on around them happened at a much faster pace; at times, the men were not even able to clean themselves properly (01:38:59:00) o The men were strafed a lot by the Luftwaffe while working on the bridges, especially at night (01:39:27:00)  Fearing his tanks standing still for too long, Gen. Patton would send orders to complete the bridges as soon as possible, which meant there were times when the soldiers worked into the night (01:39:35:00)  However, working into the night meant the soldiers had to use spotlights in order to see anything; whenever the soldiers turned on the lights, the Germans would send planes to attack them (01:39:45:00)  Men would be sent to each end of the bridge with orders to fire three shots if they heard any German tanks or soldiers or aircraft; however, the other men were often busy working that they would not hear whenever one of the soldiers fired the three shots (01:40:30:00)  Many times, when Luftwaffe planes spot the soldiers, the pilots would turn off their engines to glide in undetected before opening up with their machine guns (01:40:56:00)  For the most part, the Luftwaffe strafing runs missed doing a lot of damage; the men would scatter as best they could and quite often, the planes would miss hitting anyone (01:41:31:00) o One day, the men were working on a bridge and all of a sudden, they heard a noise coming down the river; however, by the time the men had looked up, the sound had passed (01:42:01:00)  Meanwhile, machine gun rounds and bombs hit the river about half to three-quarters of a mile down the river (01:42:44:00)  The men had no idea what to call the German plane that had passed them but the pilot turned around, brought the plane back, fired at and missed the men again (01:42:58:00) �   All the men scattered and the plane left; however, a couple of hours later, once the men were working again, the plane came back but again, had the same results (01:43:12:00)  Eventually, the men realized the pilot could not be accurate with his weapons, so the four time he strafed them, a couple of the men stood in the open and gave him the middle finger (01:43:38:00)  Although the plane again missed them by a wide margin, that small group of men got in trouble (01:44:07:00) For the most part, Van Luyn and the other men did not do much shoot; mostly, they were shot at by the enemy (01:44:46:00) o At one point, Van Luyn’s unit was stationed Bayreuth, Germany, the town where the famous German composer Richard Wagner had died, and the men ended up staying in the music hall that Wagner had built (01:44:56:00)  The first night the men billeted in the music hall, Van Luyn was outside when a German plane began strafing the area; there was a small trailer about 20ft away, so Van Luyn ran and crawled under that (01:45:16:00)  After the plane finished attacking and left, Van Luyn crawled out from underneath the trailer and saw it was filled with the unit’s dynamite and TNT supplies (01:45:42:00)  The next day, Van Luyn was with a couple of other soldiers out scouting when they saw a couple of German soldiers coming in the opposite direct; the Germans did not see Van Luyn and the others, so Van Luyn and the others were able to capture them (01:46:09:00)  Van Luyn remembers that the music hall did not have very good toilet utilities, so he was given the job of digging a slit trench that night for a latrine (01:46:45:00)  However, when they captured the soldiers, Van Luyn kept one of them to dig the slit trench and sent the remainder back to the music hall (01:46:58:00)  When Van Luyn told the soldier to start digging, the soldier thought Van Luyn was having him dig his own grave; Van Luyn let the soldier think that for a couple of minutes before showing him the proper dimensions for the trench (01:47:26:00) As the war went on, the German POWs (Prisoners of War) who Van Luyn encountered tended to get younger (01:48:25:00) o Often, Van Luyn felt bad because the POWs who he and the other men thought were German were actually Polish prisoners in work camps who the Germans had armed and placed in front of the regular German forces (01:48:32:00)  The Poles were in a precarious situation; if they did not go forward, the Germans were going to shoot them and if they did go forward, the Americans were going to shoot them (01:49:09:00)  Most of the time, the Poles threw their hands up immediately to surrender and would try to explain the situation; although the men knew they were not speaking German, they did not dare trust anybody (01:49:21:00)  A lot of the times, the men stayed in schools because the schools were often surrendered by a concrete wall and many times, there � was the silhouette of a German soldier that the children would throw dummy potato-masher grenades at (01:49:48:00) o This tended to make the soldiers leery of children, out of fear that the children would toss a grenade into their jeep or truck (01:50:12:00) o On several occasions, Van Luyn’s unit built some of the stockades used to house the German POWs (01:50:47:00) At one point, the men were moving along when they saw something that did not look right, a single German bulldozer sitting alongside a large tract of what looked like freshly moved dirt (01:50:53:00) o The men began investigation and eventually found out that the Flossenbürg concentration camp was nearby; although not a notorious as some of the other camps, Flossenbürg did some of the same things (01:51:20:00) o When the Germans knew the Americans were coming, they took all the inmates in the camp out to where the bulldozer had dug the trench, had the inmates stand along the trench, and proceeded to machine gun them down, with the force of the bullets knock most backwards into the trench (01:51:59:00)  Once the corpses were in the trench, the German soldiers had thrown lye onto them in an effort to eat away the flesh (01:52:26:00) o However, the Americans arrived so quickly that the Germans were unable to completely finish hiding the bodies (01:52:36:00) o One of the men in Van Luyn’s unit was a German Jew who had seen his entire family killed by the Nazis but somehow managed to escape and make his way to the United States (01:52:54:00)  Although Van Luyn personally did not like the man, he was useful because whenever the unit entered a town, the commander would take the soldier to the local political leader and have him translate that the soldiers wanted every weapon in the area (01:53:25:00) o A couple of days after they had left Flossenbürg, the soldiers received word that Gen. Patton had sent some of his high-ranking officers into the nearby town with orders to take the German civilians out to the mass grave to show them what the Nazis had done (01:54:49:00) The End of the War in Europe (01:55:27:00)  By the time the war with Germany ended, Van Luyn’s unit had made it to Passau, Germany, a town which served as the unit’s “home base” for a while; while staying in the town, the men were billeted in a large hotel that the American forces had partially destroyed (01:55:27:00) o Over time, the men could sense that the fighting was beginning to slow down, although it did not stop completely (01:56:13:00) o One day, Van Luyn and a couple of his friends were standing in the hotel when a man in a uniform, a well-dressed woman, and a large dog walked past; the woman walked right up to the soldiers and told them to get out of her hotel (01:56:30:00)  When Van Luyn talked back to her, the woman tried to “sic” her dog on him; in response, Van Luyn pulled out his .32 caliber pistol and pointed it at the dog’s head (01:57:07:00) �o Eventually, Van Luyn’s platoon was given orders to cross the nearby Danube river into Austria to build a small bridge that had been destroyed (01:57:58:00) o While still in the hotel in Passau, each of the men’s rooms had a small bed stand and in each of the bed stands was a chamber pot (01:58:36:00)  On the day the platoon was leaving the cross the Danube, the men wanted to take a keg of beer that they had tapped; as the platoon left, one of the soldiers had taken one of the chamber pots, filled it with beer, and was drinking out of it was the trucks pulled out (01:59:11:00)  Although the soldier did not get sick, just the thought of drinking out of the chamber pot made Van Luyn sick (02:00:05:00) o While in Austria, Van Luyn’s platoon stayed in the small village of Rottenegg, which did not consist of much more than a café, a couple of houses, and the river the men needed to build the bridge across (02:00:22:00)  The platoon stayed in the village for about four days and it was there that Van Luyn learned President Roosevelt had died (02:00:42:00)  All the Austrians in the village were worried about who would take Roosevelt’s place because they believed Roosevelt would have treated them fairly (02:01:09:00)  The people who owned the café where the men were staying lived in a house behind the café and staying with them was a healthy young man, but one who was not wearing a uniform (02:01:42:00)  Van Luyn assumed the young man was a deserter and when Van Luyn accused him of being in the Luftwaffe and “bombing New York”, the man waved his hands and said, “just pamphlets, just pamphlets” (02:01:54:00)  There were so few of them in the café that the men only used two guards, one in the front and one in the back and one day, one of Van Luyn’s friends saw a German officer riding a motorcycle (02:02:40:00)  The friend told the officer to halt and get off the motorcycle; once the officer was off, the friend took the motorcycle and told the officer to walk wherever he needed to go (02:03:06:00)  The friend then took the motorcycle, walked a little ways away from the café and covered the motorcycle in brush (02:03:21:00)  One day, the friend came up to Van Luyn and said that an Austrian farmer had invited the friend and Van Luyn to visit and said that he had two beautiful daughters (02:03:44:00) o That night, Van Luyn and the friend walked out of the café, down the road, found the motorcycle, and drove to the farm (02:03:54:00) o As they drove down a farmer’s lane, Van Luyn looked over his friend’s shoulder, he saw German soldiers coming down the lane towards them; Van Luyn told his friend to keep going because by the time they had turned the motorcycle around, they would be full of enemy bullets (02:04:49:00) �  o As the motorcycle got closer, the soldiers separated; because neither Van Luyn or his friend had their rifles or helmets, he suspects the Germans did not even realize they were soldiers (02:05:13:00) o Once they got to the farm, the farmer greeted Van Luyn and his friend and invited them inside, where Van Luyn figures there must have been forty people (02:05:37:00) o As soon as the two were inside, everyone started pointing at Van Luyn, who assuming they thought he was someone else, pulled out his pistol; when his friend asked what he was doing, Van Luyn said they were going to jump him because they thought he was someone else (02:05:52:00)  Van Luyn’s friend understood some German and explained that everyone was just surprised as to how white Van Luyn’s teeth were (02:06:45:00) o Van Luyn and his friend did not stay at the farm too long and on their way back, although Van Luyn was worried about running into the German soldiers again, the did not have any trouble (02:07:11:00)  A couple of nights after the trip to the farm, the men were listening to a radio they had brought from the hotel and an announcement came over that although the war was not officially over, the lights in London and Paris were going on for the first time in years (02:07:43:00)  Van Luyn was standing guard duty and soon after the announcement, a machine gun started firing; Van Luyn remembers laying on the ground and thinking that someone should tell those soldiers that war was nearly over (02:08:07:00) o A day or so after the announcement about the lights, the platoon returned across the Danube and rejoined the larger unit in Passau (02:08:32:00) o Once back in Passau, Van Luyn’s brother-in-law, a Master Sergeant in a field artillery unit, visited him; once the war ended a couple of weeks late, the brotherin-law came back and invited Van Luyn to visit his unit (02:08:40:00)  Although the two men knew they were near each other during their time overseas, they did not correspond with each other but with Van Luyn’s sister and his parents (02:09:07:00)  Van Luyn’s brother-in-law talked with Van Luyn’s First Sergeant, who told Van Luyn he could go and to be back in three days (02:09:17:00)  All the other men in brother-in-law’s unit knew about Van Luyn, so when Van Luyn got to the unit, they all treated him nicely (02:09:48:00) As the war wound down, each of the companies in the regiment organized a baseball team and played games on a series of baseball fields that the men had built outside of the town (02:10:17:00) Eventually, the regimental commander told the men that he had received a message from Gen. Patton saying he was very proud of the regiment and that the regiment had received five battle stars, something they did not know any other units had (02:10:43:00) � o As well, the general had promised that Van Luyn’s regiment would be the first of their kind to be sent home; although some of the men who had not earned enough “points” might not be getting out of the Army immediately, they were still going back to the United States (02:11:15:00) o As few days later, the commander had the men fall out again and said that although what he had previously said was still true, the unit would be returning home the long way (02:11:36:00)  General Douglas MacArthur as preparing his invasion of Japan and he wanted to bolster his forces with experienced soldiers, so Van Luyn’s unit was one of the units selected to take part (02:11:54:00) o When the news came down, Van Luyn really felt bad for the married men in the unit because most of them had resigned themselves to the fact that they would not make it home (02:12:21:00) Eventually, the men boarded trains and were taken to Marseilles, France; however, the journey from Passau to Marseilles took a long time because all of the railroad tracks had been destroyed (02:12:44:00) o The last six cars on the train had all of the company cooks and they would fix whatever food they could while the trains were rolling (02:13:12:00)  One day, the men heard yelling and when they looked outside, they saw that one of the cars were on fire; by the time word reached the engine to stop, the car was fully engulfed and both cooks had jumped out, although neither survived (02:13:49:00) o Although there was straw on the floor to sleep on, there were so many men in the car that there was not enough space for everyone to sleep at once (02:14:47:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_VanLuynW1181V1 Title A name given to the resource Van Luyn, William (Interview outline and video, 1 of 2), 2011 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-08-25 Description An account of the resource William Van Luyn was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1925, and was drafted into the Army in 1943. He wanted to go, and was disappointed when he was rejected due to an eye problem, but later talked his way past the recruiter and sent to Camp Ellis, Illinois, to train as an engineer. He joined the 1303rd Engineer General Service Regiment and was assigned to B Company, which specialized in bridge construction. He shipped out to England with his unit in the spring of 1944, and deployed to Normandy shortly after D-Day. After the Normandy breakout, his regiment followed Patton's 3rd Army across France, building and rebuilding bridges all along the way, sometimes under fire from enemy artillery or aircraft. His unit got caught up in the Battle of the Bulge, and then participated in the invasion of Germany, building their longest bridge across the Rhine near Remagen. Shortly after the Germans surrendered, the unit was deployed to the Philippines in preparation for the invasion of Japan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Luyn, William Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3570868c6a62a76c2b2b0fa29a272cf4.mp4 87ed778660b670a683c745162530e43c https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dc256db2092fa970fed8c5ba74120ca0.pdf c377d1c6ea532b5e110db817eb7a2547 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project William Van Luyn Part 2 World War II Interview Length: (01:32:34:00) Recollections of Europe (00:00:52:00)  During the war, Van Luyn served as a member of the 1303rd General Service Engineering Regiment (00:00:52:00)  Prior joining the military, Van Luyn went to his family dentist in Grand Rapids and the dentist assured him that apart from a single small filling, Van Luyn’s teeth were fine and did not have any problem (00:01:49:00) o Soon after Van Luyn arrived at Camp Ellis, Illinois for basic training, he and all the other new recruits had to go through a dental check; when the dentist checked Van Luyn, he said that he had a lot of work to do (00:02:10:00) o When Van Luyn said he had been to the family dentist three months earlier and did not have anything wrong, the dentist said he had to do extensive work on Van Luyn (00:02:23:00) o Because the dentist was a captain and Van Luyn a PFC (Private, First Class), Van Luyn had to report when the dentist scheduled him for the work to be done, which involved drilling four or five of Van Luyn’s teeth (00:02:39:00)  The fillings for the teeth were so big that once Van Luyn’s unit deployed to Europe, one of the fillings fell out (00:02:59:00) o After the filling fell out, the tooth started to rot and ache and because there was not ready access to a dentist, Van Luyn had to deal with that pain for several months (00:03:24:00)  He tried packing aspirin and tobacco around the tooth but neither did anything to dull the pain (00:03:35:00) o After spending four or five months dealing with the pain, Van Luyn went to his lieutenant and asked if there was any way Van Luyn could be sent back to have the tooth taken care of (00:04:15:00) o The lieutenant said he would try to make the arrangements and two or three days later, he told Van Luyn there would be a weapons carrier and Van Luyn was to get on it (00:04:26:00) o The weapons carrier took Van Luyn back to a wooded area where a dentist had set up, using a wooden crate and a pedal-powered drill; both the crate and dentist wobbled around, which scared Van Luyn (00:04:43:00)  When the dentist finished working on the soldier in front of Van Luyn and said it was Van Luyn’s turn, Van Luyn refused; the dentist admitted that he knew the set-up was bad but that it was all he had (00:05:27:00)  Nevertheless, when Van Luyn said he would pass, the dentist said that he did not blame him (00:05:34:00) o When Van Luyn returned to his platoon, the lieutenant asked if Van Luyn had gotten the tooth taken care of; Van Luyn said he did and never said any more about it (00:05:38:00) � o Ultimately, Van Luyn did not have the tooth taken care of until he returned home for overseas (00:05:54:00)  While Van Luyn and the other men were waiting at Camp McCoy, Wisconsin to be discharged, they all had to receive shots and have their teeth checked (00:06:08:00)  All the men were ordered to stand in two lines with a dentist at the beginning of each line (00:06:16:00)  As he got closer to the front, Van Luyn could see that the dentist for the other line was simply looking in the mouth and taking notes while the dentist in his line was going right into the men’s mouths with his dental pick (00:06:31:00) o Van Luyn knew if the dentist stuck the dental pick into his rotten tooth, Van Luyn was either going die or kill the dentist (00:06:51:00)  Van Luyn switched lines and the dentist told him to stay a day or two to fix the rotten tooth; however, Van Luyn declined because he wanted to get home (00:06:56:00) Van Luyn is Catholic and while in training, there was a Protestant chaplain at Camp Ellis, so Van Luyn would occasionally attend the chaplain’s services because it was the best he could do (00:08:08:00) o The men were never told if there was the option of going off-base on Sundays to attend church services (00:08:21:00) o Once Van Luyn made it over to France, there were a larger number of Catholic churches, with seemingly every village having at least a Catholic church, along with other churches (00:08:41:00)  Often, the men did not even know what day it was and most of the time, even if they did know it was a Sunday, they were too busy to be able to attend a church service (00:08:51:00)  Occasionally, the situation did happen where the men had an hour to an hour-and-a-half free, a church was close, and they were able to get away to attend a service (00:09:01:00)  The first time Van Luyn managed to go to a service, he went with a couple of his friends and when they walked into the church, all the French were staring at them; although the French had seen soldiers before, Van Luyn figures they had not seen any in their church (00:09:16:00)  Whenever they went to a service, the men had to take their rifles with them and when the time came for Communion, one of the men had to stay in the pew with the rifles (00:09:51:00)  After the first service Van Luyn and his friends went to, they were walking back to their unit when a Frenchmen ran up and indicated that the men were to come back because the priest wanted to talk to them (00:10:25:00)  The men talked with the priest while most of the other French stood nearby and listened (00:11:01:00) �  o Usually, Van Luyn was able to make it out to a church service once every two months or so; while going to service, Van Luyn saw some strange things and some funny things (00:11:24:00)  During one service, the priest came out of the sacristy to start the service and accompanying the priest was another man who was dressed similar to the priest and was carrying a large staff (00:11:37:00)  Both men walked down the aisle and while the priest stayed in the front, the other men went to the back of the church (00:12:11:00)  As the service continued, Van Luyn noticed some kids a couple of pews in front of him messing around and poking each other; eventually, the other man standing in the back walked to their pew and poked them with his staff, which immediately changed how the kids were acting (00:12:24:00)  A couple of minutes later, the man standing in the back walked down the aisle again and used the staff to poke a man who had fallen asleep (00:12:54:00) Prior to being in Germany, none of the men had ever seen a four-lane highway like the German Autobahn (00:13:44:00) o Even though the men did not have to, they made repairs to any damage to the highways because the highways served as main supply routes (00:14:08:00) o Although Van Luyn figures the officers in the regiment gained an appreciation for how the highways were put together from an engineering standpoint during the repairs, he personally did not; he and the other men were just trying to get the job done (00:14:46:00) Whenever Van Luyn’s unit came to an area where a bridge either needed to be built or repaired, quite often they would first build a Bailey Bridge, which was a bridge designed to go together in sections (00:15:12:00) o Usually, the Bailey Bridge was needed to make the next crossing, so many times, the men would build a regular, fixed bridge underneath the Bailey Bridge; as soon as the bottom bridge was done, the men could take the Bailey Bridge apart and move the sections to the next crossing (00:15:42:00) o During one crossing, the men had the bottom bridge pretty far along, with one layer of decking already on and the second layer in progress; however, the bridge was closer to the Bailey Bridge than normal, so Van Luyn and a couple of other soldiers were laying on the top of the fixed bridge, trying to hammer the decking into place with only a foot or so of clearance to swing the hammer (00:16:17:00)  Eventually, Van Luyn did not realize but the other men had gotten out from under the bridge (00:16:55:00)  All of a sudden, tanks had come up and the next thing Van Luyn knew, the tanks were driving across the Bailey Bridge (00:17:08:00)  As the tanks went across the Bailey Bridge, the bridge naturally sagged, so Van Luyn had to spread his body out and turn his head to the side out of fear of being crushed (00:17:22:00)  Van Luyn laid under the bridge for quite a while after the last tank crossed before finally crawling and onto the ground, after which he promptly let � out a stream of profanities at his friends, none of whom realized that Van Luyn had been under the bridge (00:18:09:00)  Van Luyn could not hear for two or three weeks afterwards and both his chest and back were bruised (00:18:39:00) One of the many hazards the men faced while building the bridges was having to walk out onto the I-beams, especially if the beams were dry but there had been a frost or snowfall (00:19:03:00) o Once the I-beams were in place, the men would carry out large planks with spikes driven into the sides, place the planks parallel to the I-beam, and then bend the spikes under the lip I-beam to secure the plank (00:19:23:00)  The wooden planks were very heavy and it took two men, one on each end, to carry of a single plank; the two men’s footsteps had to be in unison as they walked on the I-beam (00:19:55:00) o When the snow and ice came, walking on the I-beams became very treacherous for the men (00:20:42:00)  On several occasions, men slipped and fell off the I-beams; whenever someone went into the water, very rarely did he come up because often, the river below was moving extremely quickly (00:20:50:00)  Once, Van Luyn was out on an I-beam when a couple of men fell into the river; when the men fell, Van Luyn froze and could not make his body turn around and walk back to the shoreline (00:21:19:00)  Eventually, the company commander sent a couple of men out to “get” Van Luyn and just the men taking a hold of Van Luyn helped him a little bit (00:21:58:00)  Van Luyn managed to sit down and turn around; once he did, he grabbed a hold of the I-beam and worked his way off, four inches at a time (00:22:09:00)  When Van Luyn had made it back to shore, the company commander told him not to worry about it and that it would not happen the next time; however, Van Luyn said there was not going to be a next time (00:22:30:00) o When the commander asked what Van Luyn meant, Van Luyn said he was never going back out onto an I-beam; when the commander threatened to court-martial Van Luyn, Van Luyn said that he did not care (00:22:49:00)  Although Van Luyn figures the commander resented the way Van Luyn had talked to him, he figures the commander more resented the fact that the exchange occurred with so many other soldiers watching (00:23:27:00)  After the incident, Van Luyn never again had the job of carrying the planks out onto the I-beams (00:24:01:00) o Originally, the men were working on the bridges in only Army shoes, not even combat boots; therefore, they were all happy when they heard that they would be receiving boots (00:24:15:00)  However, the boots were an old-fashioned kind where the parts attached using a buckle and sometimes, the parts would get caught; if a part was �  caught, the man would yell for the other to stop because he knew if he took another step, he was going to trip and they were both going to fall into the river (00:24:36:00) Van Luyn and the other soldiers saw quite a bit in the way of Nazi influence and propaganda in Germany (00:25:26:00) o Although a lot of Germans were totally against what the Nazis were going, they still have to live under the regime and they did not dare to not follow the regime’s orders, out of fear of the lives (00:25:40:00) o The soldiers often stayed in schools because they were easier to defend and in every classroom and hallway, there were pictures of Hitler and various Nazi insignia hanging all over the place (00:26:25:00)  Although Van Luyn tried to keep some items as souvenirs, he inevitably had to throw them away because his unit was constantly on the move and he did not have the space to the keep the items (00:27:11:00)  At one point, Van Luyn had a German submachine gun, complete with ammunition, but he only carried for six or seven hours before throwing it off to the side of the road (00:27:26:00)  Van Luyn was able to keep a couple of the Nazi armbands imprinted with a swastika and a couple of other small items that he was able to stick into his pockets (00:27:46:00) o Although all of the German civilians that the men interacted with claimed that they were not Nazis, the men could not tell who was telling the truth and who was not, so they treated all the civilians as if they were Nazis (00:28:05:00) At one point, Van Luyn’s unit was moving through a small German town and as Van Luyn and another soldier searched for snipers, Van Luyn noticed a barber shop; the men had not had a haircut in some time and most had grown large beards, so Van Luyn suggested to the other soldier that they go into the barber shop for a haircut and shave (00:28:38:00) o The other soldier was skeptical that the barber would slit their throats but Van Luyn said that if one of them kept watch while the other got his haircut, he did not think the barber would try anything (00:29:11:00)  The soldier was still skeptical and Van Luyn said he would get in the chair first as long as the other soldier kept watch (00:29:30:00) o Van Luyn and the soldier walked into the shop, where an man and woman were cowering against the back wall (00:29:42:00) o Once Van Luyn motioned that he wanted a haircut, he sat in the chair while the other soldier kept his rifle trained on the barber; however, the barber was shaking so bad that Van Luyn told the other soldier to lower the rifle (00:30:01:00) o When the barber finished, he indicated for Van Luyn to get into his wife’s chair because she did the shaving and for the other soldier to get into the chair for a haircut (00:30:34:00)  The other soldier started to set down his rifle when Van Luyn yelled at him to stop and watch to make sure the wife did not do anything (00:30:52:00) � o As Van Luyn sat in the chair, the wife was sharpening a straight razor on a strap of leather; although the wife was just as nervous, she did not nick Van Luyn once during the shave (00:31:07:00) o Once Van Luyn was finished, the other soldier got into the chair and Van Luyn stood watch (00:31:38:00) o It was extremely hard for the soldiers to keep themselves clean as they were advancing across Europe (00:31:52:00)  Although the men in the unit were around water most of the time, they often never had enough spare time to bathe (00:31:55:00)  A couple of times, the men did bathe by filling their helmets, minus the helmet liner, with water and going back to camp; however, half the time, the men did not even have soap (00:32:02:00)  If a man wanted to shave, he needed to find someone with a razor and most of the time, after twenty-odd other men had used it, the blade was dull (00:32:46:00)  Nothing was said to the soldiers about their commanding general’s (General George Patton) penchant for wanting his soldiers to be cleanshaven and presentable (00:34:07:00)  At one point, the men were able to take showers in what looked like the back of a semi-truck trailer; while the men showered, they were all issued clean uniforms (00:34:18:00) Van Luyn can recall walking past “dragon teeth”, German concrete, anti-tank obstacles that poked out of the ground and made passing with vehicles impossible (00:35:19:00) o As far as Van Luyn can remember, his company never had to remove any large number of the obstacles; he does remember having to use explosives just to clear a path through for the trucks (00:36:50:00) o Apart from the “dragon teeth”, the Germans also used a large variety of mines to slow the Allied advance (00:37:44:00)  One day, the men were riding in a truck to a river where they knew the Germans had destroyed a bridge (00:37:50:00)  As they got closer to the river, the driver slowed down the truck down to 5 or 6mph because he expected to come under enemy gunfire (00:38:10:00)  All of a sudden, the driver slammed on the brakes and all the men fell forward; all the men quickly got out of the truck, thinking the driver had spotted the enemy (00:38:26:00)  When the men asked what was going on, the driver pointed at the ground and said that something on the road did not look right to him; there was a strip of fresh asphalt on the road and the driver was skeptical as to why the Germans would repair the road while they were retreating (00:38:47:00)  The men pulled out their bayonets and began poking around the side of the road; eventually, they found out that the Germans had dug up the road, placed down large Teller anti-tank mines, and recovered the road (00:39:14:00) �    The men dug up the mines, took them to the bridge, and used the explosives to help clear out where the Germans had destroyed part of the bridge (00:39:43:00) One day, Van Luyn and some other soldiers were checking out some buildings and when they noticed a nice house further down the road, they decided to check it out to see if there were any Germans in it (00:41:08:00) o Once they were at the house, a couple of men went around to the back and the four then proceeded to check throughout the entire house but did not find anyone hiding in a closet or under a bed (00:41:32:00) o There was also a garage on the property and when one of the men went to check it, he called out for the others to come take a look (00:41:56:00)  Inside the garage was a beautiful dark green four-door Renault; although the keys were in the car, the men were sure that it would not run (00:42:08:00)  One of the men ran back to the jeep, took one of the gas cans and put in a couple of gallons of gas before telling Van Luyn to try it; Van Luyn turned the key and the after a while, the car started (00:42:28:00) o Van Luyn told the other men to jump in, he backed the car out, and began driving down the road (00:43:02:00)  However, the men did not make it too far before they ran into a German outpost; Van Luyn could not brake, so he told the others to take their helmets off and hide their rifles while he drove past (00:43:27:00)  As the car drove past, the men waved at the German guards, who just stood there and looked at them (00:43:59:00)  Van Luyn drove a little ways further down the road before stopping and saying they needed to head back; if that was only an outpost, they might run into a large group of Germans (00:44:12:00)  Van Luyn turned the car around and headed back down the road; the men passed the guards, waved, the guards waved back, went back to the house, put the car in the garage, got back in their jeep and left (00:44:34:00) o When the men got back to their unit, their commander asked if they had seen anything and Van Luyn told him about the outpost (00:45:40:00) Van Luyn knew how the Germans had treated the Russian (Prisoners of War); he had seen pictures of German forces occupying towns in Russia and pictures of how horrible the Germans treated the Russians (00:46:07:00) o The Germans knew what the other German soldiers had done to the Russians, so when the war was winding down and the Germans soldiers knew they had lost, they wanted to surrender to the Americans rather than the Russians (00:47:07:00)  However, in a lot of the cases, the Americans said “no” and sent the POWs back to the Russian front (00:48:06:00) When the war ended in Europe, Gen. Patton sent word to Van Luyn’s regimental commander saying that because the regiment had been involved in so much beyond what their original assignment was, the regiment was receiving five battle stars and would be one of the first units of its type to go home (00:48:45:00) o The men were elated when the commander told them the news (00:49:18:00) �o However, a week or so later, the colonel called the men back and told them that they would still be the first unit of their type to go home, they were just taking the long way; General Douglas MacArthur needed experienced soldiers to take part in the invasion of Japan (00:50:05:00) The Pacific Theater (00:50:47:00)  Once Van Luyn’s regiment arrived in the Pacific, they sailed to Manila Bay (00:50:47:00)  In order to get to the Pacific, the regiment traveled across Europe to Marseille, France, where the men stayed for a couple of days before boarding a ship, the U.S.S. General Pope (00:51:21:00) o The General Pope sailed out of Marseilles on June 23rd, 1945 and unfortunately, Van Luyn instantly became seasick (00:51:34:00)  The voyage from Marseilles to the Pacific took thirty-three days and included the ship sailing past the Rock of Gibraltar and through the Panama Canal (00:51:42:00) o The entire voyage was miserable and all the men’s attitudes were sour, especially for the men who were married and had families waiting for them back in the States (00:52:07:00) o There were a lot of fights between the men, often with one man doing something and another smacking him (00:52:22:00) o The men were only allowed on the deck of the ship from six a.m. until six p.m.; at six p.m., all the men had to go below decks, where it was extremely hot and uncomfortable (00:52:38:00)  The bunks were stacked either five or six high and made out of pipe with thick canvas stretched between them (00:52:56:00)  While below decks, each of the men would sweat so bad that their sweat would seep through the canvas and drip onto the man below him (00:53:40:00)  Occasionally, the men were able to take a shower using some salt water (00:54:14:00) o Other than an hour to hour-and-a-half at the Panama Canal, the men were on the ship for the entire voyage (00:55:02:00) o One evening, the whistle sounded for the men to begin going below and there a group of men playing cards close to the door; there were only a couple of cards left to play but one of the Marine guards on the ship came up and told the men to break it up (00:55:16:00)  Although the men said they only had a couple of cards left to play, the Marine gave a kick and scattered the cards and the men’s money across the deck (00:56:07:00)  After the guard kicked the cards, Van Luyn had never seen men move so fast; the men were up in a flash and had the Marine dangling over the side, one man holding onto each ankle (00:56:16:00)  As Van Luyn turned to leave, not wanting to see the men drop the guard, the men pulled the guard back up (00:56:56:00)  After the incident, all the other Marines became much more friendly with the soldiers (00:57:16:00) �   o While in Panama, Van Luyn bought a large stack of bananas; the bananas were quite green, so Van Luyn told the other men that in a couple of days, when the bananas were ripe, they could help themselves (00:58:06:00)  However, by the time Van Luyn woke up the next more, it had been so hot that all the bananas were ripe (00:58:26:00) o During the voyage to the Pacific, the men did not encounter as much bad weather as they had sailing over to Scotland (00:58:52:00) When the General Pope finally arrived at Manila, it was a different experience for the men (00:59:50:00) o Although the men had been through several different countries while in Europe, by and large, the people living in those countries still looked like them; some of the peoples’ features might be different but it was not too extreme (00:59:55:00) o However, when the ship arrived in Manila, some of the local children were swimming out to where the ship had anchored and their facial features were far different from the men’s (01:00:17:00) o While in Europe, the men were always told to fasten the chin-straps of their helmets along the back of the helmet due to German hand grenades, which were concussion grenades (01:00:59:00)  Once the men arrived in Manila, their commander told them that they could change their chin-straps around because the Japanese did not have any concussion grenades (01:01:25:00) o The civilians were just glad to see more American soldiers arriving because they had been through hell with the Japanese (01:01:56:00) After arriving in Manila, the regiment had orders to travel to Nichols Field, which was an airfield; once at the airfield, the men set up tents in a nearby rice paddy (01:02:23:00) o The men were not at Nichols Field for too long before the Philippines’ rainy season began and the whole ground turned to muck (01:03:05:00)  Somehow, the men got hold of some landing strips, which they tied to poles to make walkways between the tents (01:08:14:00) o The men had mosquito netting to go over their bunks to keep out mosquitoes so they were not contract malaria; nevertheless, the men were also forced to take anti-malaria medication (01:03:50:00)  The men could tell those soldiers who had been in the Philippines a while because they had a yellow tint to their skin from the anti-malaria medication (01:04:02:00)  As well, some of the men gave the local women who washed their clothes some of the medication to wash with their clothes; unfortunately, the medication turned the men’s clothes a nice canary yellow (01:04:15:00) Once at the airfield, the men did not do a whole heck of a lot (01:04:57:00) o One of the major things the men did was re-organizing the company baseball teams, using equipment from the other units stationed at the airfield (01:05:04:00)  Van Luyn’s team had some good minor league baseball players and after beating all the other companies, started playing teams from other units that were stationed at the airfield (01:05:46:00) �   Although Van Luyn’s team fared okay against some of the lesser teams, once they started playing better teams, things did not go as well (01:06:18:00)  Eventually, the regimental “athletic director” said they needed to strengthen the team, so they were going to take the best players from all the companies to make “regimental All Star Team” (01:06:32:00)  In the first game Van Luyn pitched, he had not thrown anything for over a month and after the game was over, his arm and shoulder were extremely sore (01:07:13:00)  Another game was scheduled for the following day at a nice stadium; the man who was pitching got through eight innings before he passed out on the mound from exhaustion due to the heat (01:07:34:00)  As the man who had passed out was being looked at, the athletic director told Van Luyn to start warming up; however Van Luyn could not even lift his arm up and told the athletic director to put someone else in (01:08:23:00)  Although Van Luyn was only throwing the ball around, when the umpire said “play ball”, the athletic director told Van Luyn to go in; however, Van Luyn wanted to kick him in the butt because he was in no condition to pitch (01:08:45:00)  Van Luyn finished pitching the remainder of the 8th inning but the game kept going on and on, finally ending after eighteen innings, with Van Luyn pitching every inning (01:09:11:00)  After the game, the caretaker for the baseball field came up to Van Luyn and said that he had taken care of the field for twenty years and during that time, he had seen a number of professional American baseball players at the field; however, that was the best baseball game the man had ever seen (01:09:50:00) All throughout Europe, there was always stuff for the men to drink; this was something that was not available in the Pacific and the men found out that once a month, they would be allocated a beer ration (01:11:28:00) o The day first beer ration arrived as the same day that the Americans dropped the first atomic bomb on Hiroshima (01:12:26:00) o When the men heard the news, they figured that the war was going to be over; like a fool, Van Luyn began drinking and celebrating and ended up drinking his entire case of beer (01:12:35:00) o Although the men were a sorry sight the next morning, they were still happy because there was a great chance they would be going home alive and not dying in an invasion of Japan (01:13:28:00)  Later on, Van Luyn found out that if the war had continued and the invasion went through, his regiment was supposed to land at Japan on D+1 in support of a Marine Division (01:14:01:00) When the official surrender of the Japanese came a few days after the dropping of the atomic bombs, the men just assumed they would be heading home (01:14:42:00) �   o However, the method for men being discharged was based on an individual’s “points” and even if the regiment returned to the United States as a whole, that did not mean all the men were discharged as once (01:15:03:00)  The men who had received commendations, such as Purple Hearts, would have more points than those who did not, such as Van Luyn, and would have been discharged earlier (01:15:17:00) o Although Van Luyn does not regret having to go to Japan, he would have preferred to go home (01:15:37:00) A lot of the Filipino civilians living in the area around Nichols Field tended to live in huts (01:15:57:00) Although the men did get into Manila on a couple of occasions, it was mostly to go to a large sports stadium in the city to watch American football games (01:16:49:00) As far as Van Luyn can remember, there was not much in the way of Filipino civilians working on the airfield (01:17:16:00) Occupation of Japan (01:18:06:00)  Van Luyn’s regiment eventually received orders that they would be sent to Japan, so their orders were changed from taking part in the invasion force to repairing the roof of the building in Tokyo that Gen. MacArthur wanted to use as his headquarters (01:18:06:00) o Van Luyn’s regiment was ordered to go in ahead of Gen. MacArthur’s headquarters, repair the roof and prepare the building to serve as the general’s headquarters (01:18:48:00)  Once the regiment had its orders, the men traveled back to Manila Bay and were told to load onto seven LSTs (Landing Ship-Tank); however, as the men boarded, something changed and the men were told they could only have three of the ships (01:19:26:00) o Some of the men had their equipment loaded onto one of the LSTs but had to take it off; they were then told which three they could load onto (01:19:58:00) o The men boarded the LSTs before the official Japanese surrender papers were signed, so they had to wait for a day while the papers were signed on the U.S.S. Missouri (01:20:15:00)  Eventually, there was word that the ships should not leave because a typhoon was coming (01:20:34:00) o As the men were waiting to board the LST, a Navy jeep pulled up on the dock and two Navy officers get out and began walking down the dock (01:20:54:00)  Eventually, the word was given to load up onto the boats and as the men moved towards the ship, Van Luyn’s company motor sergeant moved in the opposite direction (01:21:43:00)  As the others watch, the sergeant walked up to the Navy jeep, swing it around, and drove it right onto the LST right before the doors to the LST closed (01:22:04:00)  On the voyage to Japan, the Navy personnel were still worried about the after-effects from the typhoon (01:22:41:00) o Because his last name started with “V”, this meant Van Luyn was usually at the back of lines and in the case of the LST, it meant he did not receive a bunk below decks on the LST and he had to sleep on deck (01:22:51:00) �  Out of fear of the typhoon, when the men brought up their Army cots, Navy personnel tied the cots to a the LST’s side rail and showed the men how to tie themselves into the cots (01:23:29:00)  Ultimately, everything was fine and the men made it through the night, by which time the ship was out of the typhoon area (01:24:15:00) o A couple of days after leaving Manila, a soldier on one of the other LSTs died; that LST pulled out of the small convoy, lowered its flag to half-mast, and performed a burial-at-sea for the soldier (01:24:33:00) o Apart from carrying the soldiers, the three LSTs assigned to the regiment also had to carry all the regiments’ equipment, most of what was already in pretty bad shape (01:25:58:00)  Some of the equipment went below decks and some of it was chained to the deck (01:26:22:00) o At one point, Van Luyn talked to a sailor about the possibility of washing his sleeping bag (01:26:36:00)  The sailor said they could hang the bag over the railing and let it drag behind the ship for a few hours; although it was salt water, the bag would be pretty clean (01:27:01:00)  The sailor got a rope and after tying the rope around Van Luyn’s sleeping bag, gently lowered the bundle into the water and let it drag (01:27:20:00)  When Van Luyn pulled the sleeping bag up, he was tickled pink because it did not stink anymore (01:28:16:00)  As Van Luyn was tying the sleeping bag to the railing to let it dry, a couple of his friends came up and asked what he was doing; when he explained what he had done, the others said they wanted to do the same thing to their sleeping bags (01:28:26:00)  Van Luyn showed the others how to tie up the bundles but warned them to lower the bundles gently into the water (01:28:54:00)  Van Luyn started playing cards and the next thing he knew, one of the friends call him over to say that he was done (01:29:13:00)  However, the friend had gone back further along the ship and had tied the rope right behind the septic pipe on the ship (01:29:35:00)  As the friend pulled the bundle up, he saw it was covered in toilet paper and waste (01:29:55:00) When the LSTs arrived in Japan, the men disembarked at Yokohama and spent the night there before being taken by truck to Tokyo (01:30:43:00) o One of the best things the officers did once in Japan was picking the location that the men would stay at in Tokyo; the regiment were the first American forces in Tokyo, which meant the officers had first choice of locations (01:31:46:00)  The regiment ended up staying at a park-like location that had a Meiji shrine built in it and had been built when the Japanese thought they would be hosting the 1940 Olympic Games (01:32:08:00) Continued In William Van Luyn Part 3 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_VanLuynW1181V2 Title A name given to the resource Van Luyn, William (Interview outline and video, 2 of 2), 2011 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-08-25 Description An account of the resource William Van Luyn was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1925, and was drafted into the Army in 1943. He wanted to go, and was disappointed when he was rejected due to an eye problem, but later talked his way past the recruiter and sent to Camp Ellis, Illinois, to train as an engineer. He joined the 1303rd Engineer General Service Regiment and was assigned to B Company, which specialized in bridge construction. He shipped out to England with his unit in the spring of 1944, and deployed to Normandy shortly after D-Day. After the Normandy breakout, his regiment followed Patton's 3rd Army across France, building and rebuilding bridges all along the way, sometimes under fire from enemy artillery or aircraft. His unit got caught up in the Battle of the Bulge, and then participated in the invasion of Germany, building their longest bridge across the Rhine near Remagen. Shortly after the Germans surrendered, the unit was deployed to the Philippines in preparation for the invasion of Japan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Luyn, William Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Language A language of the resource eng Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/aa1ac36851f01ab0cc52addb1c6e1d55.mp3 4ff24cb2ae621f88dc5959ca4c94f31a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/72b05b18043aaf63c8f5a071a33152b6.pdf bebb6e8c4b8b1e0108ad8f6676febbc4 PDF Text Text Candace Van Oss - Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 1 Nathan Neitering: This is Nathan Neitering, and I’m here today with Candace Van Oss at the old schoolhouse in Douglas, Michigan on July 21st 2018. This oral history is being collected as part of the Stories of Summer Project, which is supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Program. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me today, I am interested to learn more about your family history, your family history and your experiences of summer in the Saugatuck Douglas area. Can you please share with me your full name and how to spell it? Candace Van Oss: My full name is Candace C A N D A C E Caye C A Y E and my maiden name is Cartwright C A R T W R I G H T NN: Okay, um and in your last name do you have a space? [Pause] I’m sorry between Van and Oss? CVO: Just, yeah. NN: Yeah, you do. Okay. V A N space O S S CVO: Yes. NN: Very good, um, so tell me a little bit about where you grew up. CVO: I grew up just down the street, on, um, it would be Chestnut and Main. My mother's, had a family home there that she was born, and my father and, when she and my father got married in 1948. They um, converted it into apartments because it was a big bed and breakfast at one time that my great grandmother had run. It was called the Fort Snelling [Laughs] and they, it had like seven bedrooms I guess, and you know, big house, and my father and mother converted it into two upper apartments and to two lower apartments and my mom's brother and his wife occupied one of the downstairs apartments. My Mom and Dad occupied the big upstairs apartment and then they each rented out, you know. And I was born at Kirby House in Douglas and uh, um I said the house went way way back to my mother’s father’s family and um, we we lived there until I was about seven or eight and my father had purchased the property adjoining it because the Catholic Church used to be across the street from that. The Catholic Church moved up here and my father got first dibs on the property where he built our house, our, you know a new house… NN: Right. CVO: …and his shop. He had a plumbing and electrical business and so, oh, we had, and he took a year, I mean it was just he had uh, different contractors friends you know like the painter, and the floor and the, you know the all different, the roofer you know, and since he did the plumbing and electric and all these other people came in, so took like a year, all together. But then one day we just moved across the lawn. NN: What was the address of that house? �Candace Van Oss - Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 2 CVO: Um, the um, big house was 11 Chestnut Street. NN: Okay, okay, um and so what were your parents’ names? CVO: Marjorie M A R J O R I E, her maiden name was Fisch F I S C H. NN: Okay. CVO: And my father’s name was Ralph R A L P H Cartwright. NN: Okay, alright, and um, what year were you born in? CVO: 1953 NN: Okay, alright, and you said that uh, when the Catholic Church moved from sort of downtown Douglas by the waterfront over to the Blue Star. That’s when your family acquired the land next door. Okay, alright. Just clarifying for the record. What’s a vivid memory that you remember from your childhood? Either back at the big house or the new house or both? CVO: [Laughs] The uh, biggest things was remembering that Dad was the Chief of Police. NN: Ah! CVO: And it was a time when you used your own phone, you didn't have a, you know private, you know what I mean, you used your home phone. He had a little, um, light, you know to put when he was, you know when he… NN: To put on his car? CVO: Yes, it went on his car and he had to use his own car. NN: Oh. CVO: And his job mostly just required summer. You know that's when he patrolled more weekends of course Saturday night, especially. We used to have down at the tennis courts in Douglas, every Saturday night they had square dancing believe it or not. This, uh group of square dancers from, around South Haven or something that would come every Saturday night and um, all the you know, adults and all the kids would go up to the square dances because it was like the Saturday night and at one point when they have a little rest because they had a band and a caller and then the square dancers, you know, and when they would rest, uh, then the band would, the announcer, whatever you want to call, the caller would announce the Mexican hat dance because all us kids would go and form a circle and you know, do the, [Mimics “Jarabe Tapatío”] every, every week. But that was a big thing, you know? And um, my Dad would have his, he’d be off uh, in his uniform you know, patrolling and it, it uh, took him to, he had to patrol the lakeshore of course, in Douglas and patrol here and if Saugatuck needed an assist with �Candace Van Oss - Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 3 something, which they did quite often, um, he, you know had to go to that and uh he did this for a long time. NN: Okay, yeah, I was going to ask do you remember how many years he was the Chief of Police? CVO: From about 1950 to about 1963. NN: Okay, alright. CVO: And then he wanted to um, you know, it was getting a little more complicated of course by that time and they made him Fire Chief [laughs] His uh, you know, Leader, his Leadership. NN: He was moving from one branch of the force to another, huh? CVO: Yes. NN: And so how long was he the Fire Chief then? CVO: Um, my son who is a fireman now, um, we were trying to think back. I think about ten years. NN: Okay. CVO: Maybe. NN: Alright. CVO: But, um, that was, wasn’t. We also had a, a, emergency phone though by that time, to the fire department and we also had a wall switch our on wall, you know it was just a regular, that, that uh, alarm put on the Fire siren which was located up at the ball park. NN: So was that ever tempting as a child? CVO: Oh yes! NN: As a child to hit the switch and sound the alarm? CVO: I put a, I put a note on it because we did, you know, you had people come over and just think it was just… NN: Just a light switch? CVO: Yeah! We never, we never tripped it up accidently. NN: Okay. �Candace Van Oss - Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 4 CVO: Luckily, but, you know, it was, if my mother had to do it, it was a scream because she would just kind of [imitates siren sound] you know. [NN laughs] CVO: But, that that's another vivid memory is, you know the phone ringing and then immediately you know, we’re turning on the siren. NN: So if the phone, if someone called you to say there is a fire, then it was whoever was in the houses’ responsibility to start the, sound the alarm even if your father was not at home at the time? CVO: Yeah, yeah. NN: Okay, alright. CVO: And then the Fire barn just used to be down below the Village Hall here. NN: Yes in the back of the [inaudible] right? CVO: Yes, it only held like 1 truck [laughs] you, you had to sort duck to even get in but that was where the fire barn was at that time. NN: Okay, alright. Do you remember how many fire? [00:08:41] � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-VanOssC-20180721_p1 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Oss, Candace Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-07-21 Title A name given to the resource Candace Van Oss (Audio interview and transcript, Part 1 of 2), 2018 Description An account of the resource Candace Van Oss grew up in Douglas, Michigan. She shares many memories of her father's career as Chief of Police. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Neitering, Nathan (Interviewer) Van Orsdol, Mollie (Transcriber) Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Fire departments Oral history Audio recordings Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2b77af0c2089272ccbcfe17f12b5308d.mp3 33df03e046afacf2313d90ff5b75bf27 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4a37b40a9a15d2f8c5fc5d1a1146cf9a.pdf cf8f3de14d42f5e563848d51db3c594a PDF Text Text Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 1 Nathan Neitering: Alright, here we go. Okay, this is Nathan Neitering I’m here today with Candace Van Oss at the old schoolhouse in Douglas, Michigan on July 21st 2018. This oral history is being collected as part of the Stories of Summer Project, which is supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Program. Uh, this is a continuation of uh, part one that got cut off inadvertently. So we will pick up approximately where we left off. Thank you again for taking the time to talk with me today. Um, can you please say and then spell your full name? CVO: Candace, C A N D A C E Van Oss V as in Victor A N O S S NN: Very good, thank you, um and so we'll sort of pick up where we left off which was um, your school memories at Douglas Elementary. Four classrooms you said, uh and you still see many, some of your former classmates around town, is that, that’s correct? CVO: oh yes NN: Okay, uh, and you have any teachers particularly stick out in your mind? CVO: there was, well, the one that was my kindergarten and first grade teacher was a family friend so right there, you know it was like, um, I had to call her Mrs. Wicks even though [laughs] she was Natalie! NN: Okay, yeah CVO: But, one of my classmates who was also my best friend at the time, it was her nephew David Wicks and when he had to call her Mrs. Wicks, [laughing] it was, you know, that was, that was. And there were three Johns, I remember the, uh, 3 or 4? Oh, John Thomas, John Rich, John Drepeck, and uh John Build and uh, a couple of Nancy’s and, you now that kind of thing. But I was the only Candace, so! [Laughs] NN: You were the only Candace, alright. Very good, um, let me follow up with some of my questions here. [Pause] Were there are other places in town, besides at school obviously, during the school year and down by the Kalamazoo River in Douglas where you recall spending time, other businesses or churches or other places? CVO: oh yes! Um, we spent a lot of time in the ball park which, you know now it's got statues and, back. I was telling my son just the other day that they had done nothing to the park when we were kids. It was had, been left for years. we got like this broken drinking fountain, you know, we knew that if we turned it on it would just spray up in the trees and there was still shuffle board equipment, nobody played and there were shuffle board courts, yeah the shuffle board whatever were behind these benches and we’d get them out and of course, you know! And uh, they did not, uh really you know fix the park. NN: It was not maintained? �Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 2 CVO: Right, for a long time and uh but we had fun just goofing off and you know chasing each other. Watching the um, the little league games we had friends that were you know, playing little league and we’d go up there to watch them and they were all, used to be at night. NN: Okay CVO: You know evening, and then we go across the road, there was the Dinette. Which is now the Everyday People… NN: Café. Yes. CVO: They had, they stayed open all day and till like eight o'clock or nine o'clock at night, and so we would go there to get ice cream after because it was right there and we ride our, you know, ride our bikes and us girls, sometimes we’d, I had one friend I remember his name was Paul and he was playing the [pause] the game, he's he's playing the game… NN: Okay. CVO: And these girls and I wanted to grab a bike and go bike riding. So we said, ‘Paul’, [laughs] I said, ‘Paul, can I use your bike uh, we’re going to go bike riding’ and he says ‘No!’ and then another gal that was with us said, ‘Paul she is going to take your bike, okay.’ And then [laughing] and we just, you know absconded with Paul’s bike! [NN laughs] But, everyone knew each other then, you know, it’s a different time. If your, if the neighbors or the towns people saw you out any later, you know. It was like ‘is she supposed to be?’ NN: Somebody might hear about, huh? Yes? CVO: Yes, and they would call your parents! I remember one man called one night and my dad answered the phone and he said, ‘she's standing right here’ and the man saw a girl that looked like me up, we had a telephone booth and it [inaudible] you know and he thought it was me, standing in this telephone booth you know after ten o'clock at night, and so he called my dad and dads like, no? [00:05:04] NN: Wasn’t you, huh? CVO: Wasn’t me! But you know we spent just a lot of time hanging around and there were two stores that are, of course, no longer. One was a bakery. NN: Okay �Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 3 CVO: It was owned by my cousins when I was very young and they made wedding cakes and, you know whole, whole thing. NN: What was the name of that bakery? CVO: Just Douglas NN: Douglas Bakery? CVO: Bakery, yeah. And then down the street there was a store and it sold, it was a newsstand and it also sold candy, of course and uh, Knickknacks and this and that, and you went and got your paper there every day instead of, of, at time having this delivery or whatever. You went and picked up your Sentinel at the, and it was called Tyler's General Store, Tyler, but we always called it Neevas because the lady that owned it was Neeva Tyler and she was so wonderful and if, in the olden days, it was there when I was little, if you came in with a quarter, [inaudible] [laughs] you would usually get a bag full of stuff and still leave with your quarter because she would, [NN laughs] She was a wonderful, you know… NN: Very generous with the kids? CVO: Yes. NN: Okay. CVO: And her family was you know, well, well liked around her they just lived a couple blocks away from the store and… NN: So the store both of those, those two stores were both on Center Street? CVO: Right NN: In Douglas. CVO: Where the, yeah. Where Neeva’s store is where the um, coffee place is? NN: Oh, uh, Respite Cappuccino? CVO: Yes, yes. NN: Okay, yep. CVO: That was that. �Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 4 NN: Okay, okay um, and you said you used to go get ice cream at the dinette, what was your favorite flavor of ice-cream? CVO: Chocolate. NN: Excellent. Do you have any other memories of being in the dinette? CVO: Oh yes. NN: What was that venue like? CVO: My, well as usual, it was friends and my mother went there every morning of my schooling you know, and she said after she drop me off at Douglas Elementary she’d go down there for coffee and they had a coffee klatch, you know, and the lady that owned it was my friend David, the same David whose, [laughs] his, his other Aunt owned the, the dinette and so there were a lot of times when we would go in there so my mother could have coffee in the afternoon and chat with, you know, the post master. And David would be there because his mother was waitress. His Aunt owned and his Mother waitressed. So sometimes David and I would just sit in the booths in the, in the back and I remember we're just learning to read both of us and we were reading Doctor Seuss, the, like Cat in the Hat, [laughs] but to each other. But, you know, we, we, yeah, we hung out there a lot. NN: Okay alright. Um, and the ball fields for, the poorly maintained ball field is where Beery Field is now, right? CVO: Yes NN: Right, right down, in downtown Douglas. It is, it's very nicely maintained. Um, did you go to church at all at local church? CVO: Um, later on. Uh, the Catholic Church that I talked about that across the, right across the street from our home on Washington Street. That became the Community Church at first in about 1965, start like the very end of 1965, and my parents decided since we lived across the street [laughs] NN: Convenient CVO: My mother had been Catholic we, um, went to mass a couple times but when I reached like uh, if you were Catholic you usually went on to the Catholic School. The Catholics had their own elementary school which was situated in several different places. But, my mother put in kindergarten, of course in Douglas and then she knew I was, loved public school and uh, she didn't go to the Catholic church that much, anyway any more so, thank goodness I got to go public school because the Catholic school was all Nuns and they even lived Downtown here in… NN: Oh, right at their site there? �Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 5 CVO: Yeah. NN: Okay, oh interesting. CVO: Yes and that used to be a school down there too. NN: Right, right. Saint Peters, right? CVO: Yes, yes. NN: Okay, yep. Um, did you have any summer jobs here in Douglas or in Saugatuck? CVO: Mostly babysitting. Which was kind of fun because, I loved to babysit in Saugatuck because I’d round up the kids and take them downtown with me, you know, when I was a teenager so I could still get out and about but have the kids with me. And uh, I had another boy that I used to babysit for quite often on Douglas Lakeshore and he was, sweet little boy and it was back in the Batman era, Batman and Robin were you know and so we have to play Batman and Robin when I babysat, we’d have to put on capes and leap about the house but, hey, you know, I got paid to do it! NN: And it’s memorable now, right? CVO: Yes! NN: Um, did you spend much time out by the lakeshore? CVO: Oh yes. NN: Yes. CVO: Yeah, my, my dad's um, ah, that was his big business, of course in the summer he had to open all the cottages, turn on the water uh, I met many of his customers and they’d say, ‘oh, you know, bring her down, you know, she can go to our beach’ or I made friends with people that had grand kids and stuff down there, and the grand kids would invite me over. NN: Oh! CVO: Yes! And you got to be, you know, you got to have your own little stretch of beach because it was private NN: Right. CVO: And so we had many fun hours, you know, down, right down at the beaches. �Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 6 NN: Um, you mentioned going to Saugatuck High School and the math in my head says that would’ve been probably in the late 60’s, early ‘70s? Okay? What can you tell me about Saugatuck... [CVO Laughs] In the ‘60s? CVO: My ex-husband said I should write a book. Um, because I remember more than, than he does. But, the school, when we got there in 7th grade, our class was so huge, by then, because they had you know, it was Saugatuck kids, Douglas kids, Pearl kids, Glenn kids, yes. We, we had the best biggest class ever to come to Saugatuck and the principal and the teachers were all, kind of shook up because there were so many of us they had to divide us into 7A, 7B, 7C and 7D. And, um, we, you know spent the next year from 7 to 12 there and the school got so crowded because it was a smaller high school it’s no longer there, you know but then they were going to build eventually that one [inaudible] CVO: the school that… NN: The current school, yeah. CVO: but we had an open campus policy because there were so many of us that if you didn't have a class and you weren't in any trouble for anything you could just go downtown and go to the drug store, go do the… I majored in drinking coffee my senior year because I had so many credits that I’d have a class and then I have a big hour off and then I have a, another class, and you know, and, and, my friends and I made many many trips to town and there are two different ways to go. NN: Okay CVO: There were the front steps...but we’d take the trail which was, went past uh, on uh, Lake Street. NN: Okay CVO: Or you would go the back and there were back stairs, that now they kind of run behind the, I, I think it’s a, that arts center, whatever? NN: Saugatuck Center for the Arts, yes. CVO: Yeah. NN: Yes there is a separate stairway back there CVO: yes. NN: Okay. CVO: and, but that was considered the smoker, [laughs] the smoking kids. �Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 7 NN: Oh! CVO: Steps, if you were going to the steps NN: Back steps CVO: Yes. NN: Interesting, I love it. So what was your coffee destination? Was it the drug store or somewhere else? CVO: No, it was a place called the Corner Cafe which now is a Mexican restaurant I believe, on the, um, on, when you come on Lake Street also but, and um the family owned it, at the time. The one waitress, especially my senior year like I said, my friend Bev and I were in and out and in and out all day and after a while she’d say ‘don't you kids ever go to school?’ [Laughing] ‘Don’t you have somewhere to be?’ [Laughs] and, but, like I said if you didn't have to be there, they didn't want you there wasn't the room. They even put, a, portable classrooms. NN: Oh CVO: It was like in a, [laughs] they put up about I think it was around six. NN: On the property of the main school? CVO: On the property, yes. NN: Okay, hm. And you said your friend Bev, what's her name? CVO: Her name was Beverly Simonson. NN: Okay. CVO: and then her, she um, passed away in 1986 very suddenly and her brother was, is Bruce Simonson who is the uh, up, up until last year or so he was the head of the Public Works Department NN: Yes, in Saugatuck CVO: Yes NN: The Public Works Director, that's right. CVO: Yes NN: Okay, um, and Bev was in the same grade as you? �Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 8 CVO: oh yes we were only about, her birthday was December 30th and mine is December 8th and, and so we were together a great deal. [Laughs] A great deal at the time. NN: do you, um would you ever go anywhere else in downtown Saugatuck, even on the weekends or after school? CVO: Oh sure. NN: Yeah? CVO. Yeah. Um, Marro’s which, you know, was uh, the big pizza place and the time like, well now you can’t. [Laughs] But back then, [inaudible] it was called something else and I, but owners were named Roy and Rose Krawitz, and you would order your pizza and you could just go in the back door, and sit in the kitchen with them if you wanted and wait. If your pizza was to go. And when I was dating what turned out to be my husband, now he’s my ex-husband, later. We remember going there every Saturday night and back then you could just go in, get served, you know, get out! It wasn't like now with the with the reservations NN: Yes CVO: and the lines, and the… NN: It was just the neighborhood pizza place. CVO: Uh huh NN: Right? Okay. I know you would have been pretty young, do you remember ever going to the pavilion before it burned? CVO: No, I remember going past it, I remember thinking like I was in a foreign country a little kid, to see a building that big. NN: yeah. CVO: But no, at my mother, of course, and her brother and her friends always used it for a dance hall, and just um, previous to it burning down it had become a movie theater or a while and I remember my friend Jackie lived right over there [laughs] right next door from this place um, I remember Jackie and her mother were talking about going, they went to the movies and stuff, but, I, no, I never was inside. NN: Okay, okay. But, you, you said you watched it when it was on fire. CVO: Oh yeah NN: So you saw the end, unfortunately, right? �Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 9 CVO: It was on the news that night and everything, I mean, you know, it’s like, it was the end of an era for many people. NN: For sure and, and I bet your Dad didn't get home till real late that night, as the Fire Chief, or as Police, Police Chief at the time. CVO: Yeah NN: Yes CVO: Um, he did manage to see it on the news when it, when it came on but, and all the adults I remember that, were familiar with it of course which was most of them, [laughs] you know, most of the population were all just sick, you know, that night, just, you know, beyond belief. NN: Um, when you were in high school, what was your favorite subject? CVO: History NN: Oh! You’re in the right place, I think. Anything particular any specific era or just history in general? CVO: just history in general. I had our wonderful teacher. He, a lot of the boys never liked him but his name was Richard McFall and I, I was always very interested in his class and kept, they kept my attention and, and uh I just really uh, enjoyed, uh, his classes a great deal and he was only like ten years older than us really but you know he tried to be this bossy, you know, scary guy and I just you know, right, you know but he was uh, one of my favorite, favorite teachers. When he, when uh, we graduated, that, on the night we graduated, people lined up. You, you, the seniors would line up in the hall and then people that were at the graduation, of course come and wish you well, and shake your hand and kiss you and hug you, and I put my arms around him and said ‘I’m going to miss you so much’. NN: And uh, what year did you graduate from high school? CVO: ‘72. NN: 1972. Okay, alright and you were living in Douglas. Was there a bus? How did you get to Saugatuck, to the high school? CVO: Um, in the earlier years, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 11th we had a bus that would uh, be picking up the elementary kids and when he’d, they drop the elementary kids off in the morning and the bus will come through Douglas and pick us up. At one time, the place used the post office and the post office got sick of us [laughs] and they made us go down to, like where the respite is now and pick, and catch the bus down there. NN: okay. Alright um, and then at the end of the day you take the bus back to Douglas as well? Okay. �Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 10 CVO: Mhm and it would let you off in a different place. It let you off on Main Street across from the dinette, you know. NN: Okay CVO: in that corner there NN: Um, so how would you, how is Douglas, how would you uh, explain how Douglas is changed from what you remember of the community when you were a child? You still live here now, how, how, what, how would you describe that change? CVO: it's gotten, you know, so built up. There used to be a time when uh, when you went to the store. DeMond’s which was called Taft's year ago. When that, that opened when I was in about 5th grade and you just knew everybody, you know, you’d go in and, and it was only open till six o'clock every night and you had to get your stuff you know, by a certain time, it was, and uh, you know, uh it was like unheard of, a store being open, and you know oh my goodness and uh, so over the years with um, more and more population more and more different stores and different things they even sell now. I tell you the truth I even don't know, you know, what a lot of them are, someone says to me have you been to the so-and-so, no. [Laughs] NN: No [laughs] and, let me see. But you still, you still do see many people who you grew up with or their siblings or something who are, who do still live in town, so there still is that, a portion of that home grown component that is still here. CVO: Oh yes. Oh yeah, we, uh, have a good time when we do get together. [Laughs] NN: I was going to say, do you get, do you have a little group that gets together and, reminisces? CVO: We have before, yes, we have but not of lately, but, we, yeah. [Laughs] You know, and um, and that's always fun and funny thing is you always care about each other, which, is another thing where a lot of people go to school and never really know who they went to school with and, did, yeah. And uh, where, if we see another person, from our you know, our old thing they’ll say, how’s so-and so, or, have you seen so-and-so, or, so it's like a little network. NN: It is, it’s a little family almost, right? A community family, sort of. Okay, um, uh, I know you said when you were younger, you would, you could go to the lakeshore uh, because of the people that your father was, was working with or doing business. Did you ever know anybody else who was out in the Lakeshore area? Even as you were getting older, becoming an adult? CVO: Oh, um, yes, my, we had real good family friend and um, her and her son, oh, uh, lived on Lakeshore all year round. She worked at the bank in Saugatuck and her name was Leigh Showers and her son was Kendall, who, Kendall was very well known around here for a long time because he was a disc jockey or radio announcer or whatever, in Holland at WHTC. �Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 11 NN: Okay CVO: And so, knowing them was, and we had a news man who I was just talking to someone about this too. A newsman from Channel 8, their, one of their news anchors at Channel 8 moved here when I was about 6 because his daughter came in the first grade with us and his name was Bill Alan and he lived on [starts Laughing] lake, on Lakeshore too and everybody was like, it was like the local celebrity. Bill Alan! NN: And what was his daughter's name? CVO: Nancy. NN: Who, one of the Nancy's who was in your class, okay. CVO: Yes, she, she was a very, she graduated way ahead, she knew she was away ahead of us as far as, and, but it was fun to see them and, right, I’ve seen him on TV, you know? Whoa! NN: Um, we've heard some stories from other people that the sort of late ‘60s were kind of a, uh, tumultuous time in the community? What do you recall about that? CVO: I know that in the early ‘60s, when Dad was on the patrol thing and my mother and I were at the square dance… NN: Yes CVO: and we came home that night and we could hear yelling and screaming and shouting in Saugatuck and they, at the time were saying that Saugatuck was having a riot. NN: Okay, yes. CVO: And I don’t really, you know, I don’t really know who was involved or what happened but you could… NN: …so you were in Douglas… CVO: …in my room… NN: …by, by Lake Kalamazoo… CVO: …Yes… NN: …And you could hear the sound… CVO: …Yes… �Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 12 NN: … of people across the water from Saugatuck. Wow that’s amazing. Yes. Do you recall [pause] motorcycles? CVO: Oh yes. NN: Yes? CVO: Mhm NN: Buzzing about town? Tell me about that, what do you remember? CVO: Well, they were kind of, you know, they seemed so scary at the time, they were kind of, you know. But, one time I was walking through Douglas and this poor guy, you know the guy with the black leather [inaudible] on his motorcycle comes up to me about 12, and he says ‘um, is this Saugatuck?’ and he’s got this, you know, really worried, like, I bet he’s going to cry look on and I said ‘No, Saugatuck is across the river, you just get on the bridge’ and he was like ‘Oh! Thank goodness’ you know he had heard all about this wild Saugatuck town and he’s Douglas and he’s going ‘I’m lost!’ NN: Yep CVO: And people before did stop me even when I still lived in Douglas, um, I moved out of uh Douglas in about 19, uh, no, 2001 and but people still would stop me sometimes and say how do you get, this one lady went, ‘Well how do I get the Ferry over to Saugatuck?’ and I said ‘No, no, you can just go right up here, there’s a bridge.’ But she thought Saugatuck was the, that you had to get there by boat. NN: That was the only way to go, was the ferry! Okay, okay. Interesting. Um, uh, do you remember anything about uh, rock concerts in Saugatuck? Yes? CVO: Yes NN: Yes CVO: Another Dad story NN: Yep CVO: My father was Saugatuck Township Supervisor by that time. NN: okay CVO: Man was, and they had announced that this man, that was a promoter big promoter in um, Detroit. His name was Mike Quatro and he was going to have this big, you know, pop festival like, like Woodstock, you know [laughs] and it was going to out by Goshorn, but was it accessible, you know, just through Saugatuck. �Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 13 NN: Right. CVO: and it was about 1968 or 9. I, I think it had to be about I, I was about fifteen. And the couple nights before they had a big meeting at the Douglas Hall over here because back then Saugatuck Township did not have a meeting place. NN: Oh a, a, okay. CVO: and my father was on a, at desk and people were yelling, you know it was not a pleasant meeting getting in his face because they didn't want all these people of course. You know, those hippies, and, and, and, all that come in here and he could not get an injunction. He did not get an injunction for it. So it went on! NN: So the festival went forward, okay. CVO: Yes it did. There were many, um, Bob Seger was there at the time he was up, just new. Uh, Ted Nugent. He was in band called the Amboy Dukes and Muddy Waters and my father did have to promise the citizens that he would go there every day. Speak to Mike Quatro, and just make sure that everything was, because people, our phone rang constantly and people were like ‘Where’s your Father!’, I was, you know, like fifteen and they’re going ‘We’re going to get your Father for this’, and I'm like yeah and um, so it was a very, you know, difficult time but we went out there. I went out there with him but the last you want to do when you’re fifteen and you think you’re really cool is going to this thing with your dad. [Laughs] NN: Hang out with your father! CVO: Yeah! And he's going to Mister Quatro, he's going ‘Oh, um, Can here, she's there somebody she wants to meet.’ I wanted to meet Ted Nugent, I wanted to meet him. And, and he says ‘What's her name again?’ [Laughing, Inaudible] and I did Muddy Waters. NN: Okay. CVO: So I, I did not realize the significance of that later until I moved to Illinois for a while and then when he died, I mean Chicago was… NN: Yeah CVO: And I’m going ‘I met him’ at the pop festival and my brother in law still has a poster from it and I wish I would've saved, Mike Quatro had all this really cool stationary that he would, he would write to my father you know various times about stuff and I did keep it for years and years but, one of those things, don’t know what, always wished I still had it. NN: Well if you ever come across some, we would love to see it. �Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 14 CVO: Yes. NN: What, what, did you meet Mike Quatro? CVO: Yes I did. NN: Okay, what do you remember about him, anything? CVO: Just that he [inaudible] small town, you know, and people were just lined up all over the place and the cars out in Blue Star, it was, it was a mess. And motorcycles like you know, it was, and you know people calling saying people relieving themselves in their yards, and you know the cars, and this and this and this, you know very many many complaints. NN: So your family was personally impacted by the controversy of the concert or the festival, yes? Besides what you actually experienced yourself, the phone was ringing off the hook it sounds like. [sighs] And how much longer was your dad the Township Supervisor after that? CVO: He stayed until 1982 believe it or not. He stayed there 14 about 14-15 years. NN: So his whole career then, was pretty much for public service. CVO: Right NN: First as the Police Chief, then as the Fire Chief and then as the Township Supervisor. CVO: And when you were the Township Supervisor you had many duties that they now have with someone else. He was the Sexton of the cemetery, he when someone died you had to get the books out, find out where their burial place was. Even meet with the family to show them where it was. He had to do all that, get the, write all the information back in the books. Plus he was the SSR. Okay, and then there was, uh you know, different but different jobs now, they you know, divide them up. But, he was very busy. NN: It does sound busy, the whole thing. The thing sounds busy. Um, okay I have a note here that says we may have missed a couple of minutes about um, the period when your dad was the fire chief. So if we can just rehash just a little bit of that so I have the whole story. Um, uh, you said that he was the police chief from which years? CVO: About 1950 to about 1963. NN: Okay, and then how quickly was he nominated to the position of fire chief? CVO: Like the next week. [Both laugh] NN: Okay, okay um, and you said that uh, where was the Douglas fire truck kept? �Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 15 CVO: Down below the Village Hall NN: Okay, in the level, right? CVO: Yes. NN: Okay, one engine right? Yep, and uh, your family was involved with activating the siren can you tell me that story one more time? CVO: It was just a regular wall, you know, the wall switch you flip. It was in my dad’s den or his office whatever you want to call it. But we did sometimes have, if we had overnight guests, uh, they slept in there and so we were always telling them if you gonna feel around in the dark, you know for a light, don't, don't, don't flip that switch. NN: Don’t sound the alarm, right? CVO: And like I said I put a sign over it that said, this is a fire alarm, but and like I told you before if there was, there were like about two or three other people that did have the fire phone at their homes. NN: Okay, okay. CVO: But, like I said depending on who is able to answer and then a lot of times when the guys got down there, there was a chalk board there too and when theyd get the truck out and go, they’d quick write where the fire was so everyone else could [laughs] NN: They would show up and say oh we have to go here, and know where to go! Right? CVO: Yes, right. NN: That makes a lot of sense. You have to think about what the destination is right? CVO: Watching my dad and my friend Jackie's dad uh, if there was an alarm and they're looking for their shoes, looking for their, you know. Oh! [laughs] NN: He kept his gear at home? The fire, the fire, some of his fire suit, or his? CVO: He didn't. They really didn't really have much in it, they, I think he had a hat maybe, but I cent even remember [inaudible] He had some sort of pin. NN: Oh! Yes. So everybody knew he was the… CVO: Yeah! NN: Okay, he was the chief [Laughs] okay. Thank you for revisiting that. Um, uh, let's think about the future just for a minute we've been talking a lot about the past and these wonderful memories that, �Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 16 and, and you know obviously you remember a lot of the detail which is, which is fabulous. Um, what are your some of your hopes for the Saugatuck/Douglas of the future? CVO: That it can that um, attracts other people to want to at least come and visit to uh, experience. We have the river, the beach. Um, the, um, many different beautiful sites if you, you know if you think about them, Mount Baldhead still attracts people and just that hopefully that they can just continue to progress, in the, you know the, uh tourism and the friendliness, but you know, like I said it still can exert, or whatever you want to call it the, the uh meaning of being friendly and it, sometimes it all disappears now but we were always known as the “Village of Friendliness”. [Laughs] NN: Yes, yes, Douglas still tries to use that from time to time, right? That motto. Um, what do you think some of the greatest needs are that currently face the community? at this moment in time CVO: At this moment in time. Um, I'm really not sure, it, it because it varies from to time. Um, we they have so many things that they plan and so many things that they do. we have the socials, I attended a social here, just a while back. They had the, the parades, every memorial day is still a big day. come out, for the parade, yes.. and and uh, there, um, I, you know, just get a sense of pride just for the fact that you know it's still here after all these years. I don't know a lot of the people around me, I’ll go through the neighborhood going who lives there now, who lives there. but it, it is nice that it attracts uh, residents and they enjoy their children's going to the school and you know that life goes on and but it's going on very well. NN: okay. Alright. Um, remember, we said earlier that this interview will be safe for a long time and that's one of the wonderful things about the way that we're capturing these is we can be able to access them long into the future. If someone listens to this recording, fifty years in the future say, what would you most like them to know about your life? CVO: how much I enjoyed it, how much fun it was and how um living in a small town like this, you just knew everyone and you enjoyed day to day life it wasn't any kind of strife, you know. You know I mean everyone had their problems. But and if you did you would all join together if there was you know, a problem or something happens, someone um. I, I have a very tragic story if you want to hear it for a minute, but. I had uh, neighbors when I was in, um, growing up and when I was in sixth grade so I was 12 and the neighbors had six children and they didn't keep their house too well and the kids, you know, it, it was kind of. Their Dad drank, he worked but he, he drank a lot and the mom kind of, was kind of lackadaisical about where the, you know the kids went. You know, where are my kids? Well one day she went over to Saugatuck with some friends and her, the baby was 2, his name was Troy and he was a cutie but he was always wearing just like a T-shirt and diaper [pause] and the women, for some reason all went in the house at this place and somebody had a donkey. This is a true story, somebody had a donkey in this corral. NN: Okay �Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 17 CVO: And so, one of, they left Troy out there instead of bringing in with them which I don't. [sighs] he was 2 and someone says ‘what’s the donkey got in it’s mouth?’ NN: Oh, no. CVO: And he had mauled, he picked Troy up the stomach, and Troy passed away the next day and the whole town was like, you know, back then agencies didn't get all involved, it was like well the kid died, you know but they really didn't go into, you know that I mean. NN: Right, it was a different era. CVO: Yes, big investigation or… NN: Right. CVO: it was a just tragedy. So they buried Troy and that was very sad, eight days later was our last day of sixth grade. Troy had a brother in my class named Howard, and his sister Jean was, was, my age but she was a year behind me and we were, Jean and I were very, very close and I remember walking home with Howard that day after, you know, last school and he was with his buddies and he's kind of laughing stuff that my girlfriends and I were doing. But I have, um, I had to go with my dad that day to Kalamazoo, of all places. We had to, he had business there and then we were picking up a graduation present for Kendall that guy I mentioned earlier. Kendall wass graduating from high school that night and we went to a jewelry store or something and we got Kendall a gift. When we got home mother was crying, shes waiting for the, us to get home, and my dad was, ‘what’s the matter?’ Howard drowned that afternoon he was fishing right near where the Keewatin eventually was… NN: Yeah CVO: And he had hip waiters on, and he was fishing with another kid and he got pulled under and he was only 13 and he died just 8 days after his little brother. So this whole community was, I mean everybody was those jars, you know to help, you know and it was, when I think back to it now, I go now they would have people investigating their, you know, the parents that, you know the this, the that, the home life, you know what I mean. But it was, it knocked you down. NN: well for a small town to have that tragedy twice… CVO: twice… NN: …a row. Uh, what was the last name? CVO: Edwards. NN: Edwards, okay. even as a young person I'm sure you could feel the sense of community in the tragedy that was happening, I would think. �Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 18 CVO: well, to be there in the midst of it, like when after Troy died, I remember all us kids because I, like I said they had a lot of kids and there was Jean and Noel, and, and Howard and a little one named Sally and a older one named Ann, and Ann's boyfriend came over after, uh the afternoon after the baby had died, like a Saturday afternoon with a guitar and was trying to play and, you know, make us sing and trying to cheer us up and all that. To be with Jean through all that, now I look back and I think, oh my gosh, we were only twelve years old. I, I, you know you, Jean had said to me that second, when the second tragedy happened she was up at the store for her mother, she, she walked home, she went around the corner, she sees the state police at their house and she thinks, well now, now and when she got ,and she said as she went down the hill she thought, I hope it's not my precious Noel, that was her younger brother and when she got home [inaudible] so that was a very tragic time. NN: Absolutely, absolutely. Um, potentially on a happier note, are there are any other stories that I haven’t asked you about or places or people who, I mean, I'm sure there's so many things but are there or is anything else in your mind that you want to be sure to share with us? CVO: Well, it's like, I just, like when I go to town lots of time I go, that used to be, and they used to be there. which my son said, he's doing now, he's a fireman for, um Saugatuck and he has to deal a lot with the um, township. He, he, he goes to represent the fire department and he said he's feeling old now because he’ll go, this is to be, he's telling these people that are not familiar with the area and he's going, this is to here and that used to be there. Yeah, he and Mark Becken. I said Mark's got twenty some years on you, you know yet even Brent is now feeling like this is used to be here, this used to be there, that library, was, they opened it for wedding receptions and stuff I can remember it had a dance, where the library part is now, was the dance floor… NN: okay. CVO: …thing and down below was a basement where it like, I remember going to a big wedding reception there one night and the, the people were dancing up stairs and all that and then downstairs was your food and, and otherwise I don't ever remember being an Athletic building, which they said it was. NN: The Douglas Athletic Center or something for a while, right, I remember hearing that. Um, so your son Brent, you said he is, he is a firefighter. In Saugatuck? CVO: yes he is a, um, Captain. NN: okay, wonderful CVO: and currently he's down, he had a back injury. Fell off a ladder, imagine that [laughs] and he currently can’t, you know, work but he’s been on the fire department for many years and he just, you know he’s, he really likes it a lot. NN: Do you have any other kids? �Candace Van Oss Part 2- Interviewed by Nathan Neitering July 21 2018 19 CVO: yes I do. I have a son named Shannon, and Shannon is going to be 37. [Laughs] Brent’s going to be 45 in a couple of weeks. But, Shannon, uh, both boys started out, their father works, worked for years for the Public Works, he worked for 43 years for the Saugatuck Public Works so the kids start out their summer jobs working, both, at the public works and eventually they both, Brent first and Shannon later on for the Kalamazoo Lake and Sewer Authority. we work field technicians doing work for that for a long time and then press wanted to become a full time fire fighter and Shannon had enough of his water licenses you know you have to have these testing and spending water guy and public works guy he also said classes. we're just bothering here. so you know it's kinda funny how it worked out. the boys. you know place is my father and their father and it was kind of a tradition generation generation. so both of your kids are still close I there but yeah. okay. one was in Richmond. just this is a little ways should me inside or outside. okay. alright. and just for the record. their fathers name. this is me Blair. okay. his father was. I don't remember but it was rejected on the HTC. was talking to challenges and this is. staff. bye. okay. so if you used to be the mayor of Florida Tech. used to go. when Brent and his cousins were born to do your part. okay. your let sister and I had our babies up at the community. she was me. start time. my dad was in touch. okay. that would have been in the early seven early seventies. okay. small town like you said the whole time. yeah. yeah. wonderful. I was there anything else that we didn't discuss. no I'm not really. bye Campbell if this is not some people. well I think one of the most important things about this project. is that we are really trying to capture what everyday life with money and people may say I didn't do anything special or unique but it's still web stories that all come together about how this family relates to that when these people went to school together and you know and that's the fabric that in fifty years or even five euros will be able to look over and stitch that together and that's why why. we are very excited to see the storage summer project. talking about summer and all year round. so yeah. so on campus. thank you so much for sharing your time and sharing your memories with me. this will conclude our interview � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-VanOssC-20180721_p2 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Oss, Candace Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-07-21 Title A name given to the resource Candace Van Oss (Audio interview and transcript, Part 2 of 2), 2018 Description An account of the resource Candace Van Oss grew up in Douglas. She shares many memories of her father's career as Chief of Police. In the second part of the interivew, Candace continues with stories of her father's career as Fire Chief and later Saugatuck Township Supervisor. Her interview also includes a detailed descrition of the 1968 Rock Festival held in Douglas, Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Neitering, Nathan (Interviewer) Van Orsdol, Mollie (Transcriber) Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Parks Outdoor recreation Music festivals Oral history Audio recordings Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e667ee51b081a1b35dfe132634e9e3e6.mp4 b5543cb79ca5c50cb3e71feaf17bcec1 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/93a78369da533187941dd91fad07c662.pdf 67ff892e58f374b328ed4d68d6cb4e67 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Julius Van Oss 49:05 Background information (00:18)                  Thought life was pretty good before World War II began although when he graduated from high school he was unable to find a job right away. (00:20) Worked at the Dunn manufacturing company making gun brackets for M4 tanks (00:27) He worked at this job for about 4 months before he was drafted in 1943 (00:39) Graduated high school in 1941 (00:45) During the Great Depression his family had been poor however due to his young age he was unable to register how difficult times actually were (1:00) Noticed in school that many of his clothes had been made over (1:05) As a child he lived on a poultry farm and because of this he and his family always had food even during tough times (1:10) He and his family had been aware of the conflicts occurring in Europe due to his father’s interest in world news (1:54) He was on a date with a girl the evening of December 7th 1941(Pearl Harbor) and when he returned it was the first time he had heard of the Japanese attack. The next day(December 8th) he heard the U.S. was now at war with Japan (2:29) He was not excited about going into service (3:29) After Pearl Harbor, he was pretty sure he was going to have to go into service. (3:45) A couple of his friends and people from his neighborhood had been drafted before he was. (4:16) He received his draft notice in March of 1943 (4:43) Was sworn in on April 16th 1943 (4:46) Was on Active duty a week later (April 23rd 1943) (4:53) Some people with critical positions (such as tool and die makers) were kept in their positions due to the importance of their skill (5:12) If a farmer had one son already in the service and only had one son left, that child was often allowed to stay home to help manage the farm. At this time however, he was no longer living on the farm (5:29) Basic Training (5:50)   Reported to Fort Custer, Michigan (5:43) He was at Fort Custer for about a week to get his shots and clothes (5:58) �            Next he went to Greensboro, North Carolina, to receive his basic training in the Army Air Corps (probably Seymour Johnson Air Force Base) (6:00) He thought basic training was miserable. The area had been very hot and very muddy (6:14) Barracks were provided to live in (6:30) Most the men at the fort got along fairly well (6:40) The drill instructors had also treated him and the others being trained well. (except for yelling which was expected) (7:04) The Air Corps tended not to believe in the same “aggressive” training tactics as the army (7:20) When he was drafted he had the choice of going into the Army, the Navy or the Marines. (7:40) He picked the Army, but later was assigned to the Air Force [Army Air Corps at the time] (7:56) Although trained to use a rifle, he only had it on the rifle range, where as in the infantry you had to carry it with you “all the time” (8:06) In basic training he practiced military discipline, close order drill, guard duty, ext (8:20) At night there was some free time (8:40) Basic training lasted 6 weeks (9:06) Specialized training program (9:08)           After basic training, he had been given an I.Q. test to determine if he should go into the Army Specialized Training Program (ASTP). Passing this test he went to North Carolina State College to be classified for the ASTP (approx. summer of 1943) (9:11) ASTP was a program to provide a continuous flow of high grade technicians and specialist with in the Army (9:50) The Army determined that he should go into engineering so he was sent to the University of Illinois. He had been excited as this was “close to home”(approx. fall of 1943) (10:20) The curriculum was rigorous and very difficult. (10:34) Was seen as being much better than basic training. (11:20) While there he lived in dorms as well as the fraternity house (11:50) The program lasted 7 months then the army dispensed it because they could not find a use for it (February 18th 1944) (12:00) After the project was disbanded he was sent back to Jefferson Barracks Missouri and back into the Air Corps. (12:34) Was sent to Lake Charles Air Force Base (now Chennault Air Force Base) Louisiana and worked in the supply room for 7 months (12:36) Was sent up to Sioux Falls South Dakota for the winter for Radio School (approx. 1944) (13:06) �  After completing 13 out of the 18 weeks needed to complete radio school then was reassigned to the infantry and was sent to Camp Livingston, Louisiana, for 6 weeks of basic training (approx. early 1945) (13:20) He was then sent to Fort Meade, Maryland, to be sent to the European Theater(13:55) Basic training for Infantry (14:00)    Was a lot different than Air Corps basic training (14:05) No choice was given as to where he went. (14:30) He did not want to be placed down south because that was known as where the infantry were trained. (15:05) To the Pacific Theater (15:20)                 The war in Europe ended while he was in Fort Meade. (15:24) He then was sent to San Francisco and later on to the pacific theater. (15:47) He arrived at Camp Stoneman, California and unloaded there (15:55) Was taken from California via ship, he as well as many others were seasick during the voyage (16:40) The ship docked in Pearl Harbor (17:16) Going out of Pearl Harbor he was in a convoy of 15 ships. (17:30) The convoy stopped in the Caroline Islands where there was a navy recreational base. Here the soldiers were allowed to get off the ship and go swimming and relax a bit. (17:40) Conditions on the ship were not too bad, however they were sleeping 5 high. (18:15) Below deck was hot leading to the men often sleeping on the deck (18:24) Meals were not too bad however for breakfast there was only beans and coffee (18:40) During the day they tried to avoid officers because they might put them to work. (18:50) Julius arrived in Manila after 31 days at sea (spring or early summer of 1945) (19:17) One of the Sailors pointed out Bataan. Julius knew what had happened there but not to as great a degree as he would when those soldiers would return home (19:30) Was put at a replacement depot where he stayed for a couple weeks before they decided what unit he was to be assigned too. (20:13) In the Philippians there was a lab he saw which had been severally damaged by Japanese forces (20:30) The Japanese where still on the island at this time (21:14) �    One of the locals told a story of the Japanese occupation where one of the soldiers filled the body of a pregnant woman up with water and then used her for bayonet practice. (21:23) At this time he was not aware of the horrible treatment the Japanese had for their prisoners as well as their own soldiers (22:43) There was little information about Japanese forces that was given during training. (23:30) He was placed in F company 6th division. (24:40) Action in the Philippians (25:00)           He and his company pressed forward (25:49) The Japanese had nothing to shell with besides mortars however these had been utilized often by the Japanese. (26:00) Was attacked by a banzai attack but a unit ahead of his withstood the attack. (26:28) On July 4th 1945 an air strike was called. P-38s dropped napalm bombs and B-25s dropped high explosive bombs (27:05) A few days after the air strike he was forced to go on a mission to Antipolo (28:30) They stayed there for 7 days and due to the remoteness of the town’s location C47s delivered their food (29:00) He heard that the war was over from other soldier and even had the message delivered on ration boxes. After discovering this, the soldiers he was with shot off all their ammunition but one clip (30:00) The end of the war in 1945 came as a pleasant surprise (30:29) Kamikaze attacks [at least in his part of the Philippines] had stopped by the time he arrived in the Pacific Theater (30:40) After the end of the war there were very few Japanese left on the islands. (31:08) Post war and Korea (31:40)       Before knowing of the end of the War he and other soldiers were expecting a direct attack on the island of Japan (31:55) After the end of the war he wanted to get out of the infantry so he responded to an ad in a small paper given to his regiment for a P.A. operator He was given 2 turntables a generator and a jeep to go around to various platoons in the Philippines and play music for them (33:43) Soon after the end of the war he had been sent to Korea (October of 1945) (34:44) This had been immediately after the Okinawa Typhoon in October of 1945, so they did not leave port for three days due to the condition of the seas. (34:48) He arrived in Pusan. Korea, were they stayed in a warehouse for the first night (35:33) �     There were lice all over the warehouse so the next night they were moved to a high school. DDT bombs were used to kill much of the lice from the warehouse (35:58) He played records during the day at the headquarters. (36:32) He was then soon offered the opportunity to become a radio operator and took it (37:00) This Job included setting up communication between regimental headquarters and outlying companies (37:40) When in Korea there was no expectation of any more fighting or that relations with the Russians would decay to the point that it soon would. (38:00) Returning Home (38:38)          Before going home he was offered the position of Master Sergeant. However he turned it down, being unwilling to become a lifelong military man. (39:00) When traveling home the ship he was on stopped once in Japan (39:37) The ship he was on took a northern rout home, following the Alaskan Peninsula and docked in Seattle (39:46) After getting off the ship he and the men on the ship went to Fort Lewis Washington. (approx. early 1946) (40:20) When there he had been served food by German P.O.Ws (40:30) The barracks he had stayed in at this base had been integrated (both black and white soldiers) one night there had been an incident in which another soldier had been struck over the head by a black soldier who was unidentified. As a result the base was going to run all the black soldiers until one of them was willing to confess. The men in the barracks he had stayed in thought that this was wrong and stood up for the black soldiers, however they were ultimately forced to let them leave (42:16) Some African American soldiers were seen in the Philippians but in segregated units (typically served in service units) (42:36) From here he and others were put on a train to go to camp McCoy, Wisconsin, to exit the service. (43:15) He was discharged at camp McCoy and went home to Michigan (43:34) Final thoughts and opinions (44:00)       Over all he believed it to be a very good experience (44:03) Some men had difficulty managing the discipline of the service(44:35) He did keep in touch with some of his army friends (45:15) Belongs to the American Legion and the Dads of Foreign Wars (46:46) His son (served in Vietnam) and granddaughter (served in the Marines) both willingly volunteered to go into service (47:20) He thinks that having the military composed of volunteers is better than drafting men. However, he also believes that the military can give a useful experience that gives a great perspective on discipline (47:41) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanOssJ1291V Title A name given to the resource Van Oss, Julius (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Oss, Julius Description An account of the resource Julius Van Oss was drafted into the US Army in 1943 and initially assigned to the Army Air Corps. In training, he qualified for the ASTP program, which sent men to college to prepare them to become engineers, but the program was cancelled after he had been in it for seven months, and he was returned to the Air Corps. After failing to qualify as a radio operator, he was assigned to the infantry and was slated to go to Europe. The Germans surrendered before he could leave, however, and he wound up being sent to the Philippines as a replacement for the 6th Division. He fought briefly prior to the Japanese surrender, after which he was assigned to work with communications for his regiment, first in the Philippines and then in Korea before he returned home in 1946. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Montagna, Douglas (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army United States. Army Air Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-10-17 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ef187772a54024e25af79ce9b4621503.mp4 10ec3305ac73417153e6ac62603c9668 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e735cc7d88c448c7cf8e2bb8a453cabb.pdf 3295d3f5b5d99f170a471445cfe4464b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Harris Van Singel (34:40) (:35) Early Life • (:35) He was born in Byron Center, at his parents’ house. They lived in that house for about six years. • (:54) They moved to the Van Singel farm, where he grew up. It was just down the street from their previous house. He went to Byron Center School until the 12th grade. Kindergarten through 2nd grade were in one room, 3rd-5th grades were in a second room, and 6-8th were in a third room. It also had a two-story high school. • (1:30) His family was originally from the city, but his father couldn’t find work as a carpenter. The farm was eighteen acres, and they grew enough to live on, but not much past that. • (2:02) He graduated in 1940. He spent a few years working odd jobs, and working on the farm. Then he went into the Army. (2:18) Enlistment/Training • (2:18) He joined the Army in the spring of 1944. • (2:39) He avoided the draft because two of his brothers had already enlisted. During this time he worked on the farm and delivered ice. • (3:15) He enlisted because he realized he would be drafted eventually anyway. He enlisted in the Army Air Corps. • (3:50) He chose the Air Corps. He was sent to Fort Sheridan, IL, for initial processing. • (4:20) He was sent to Texas for Basic training. He learned military discipline, and PT. Basic was mostly learning about Army life. • (5:00) He had a new plane that used a remote control gun. He had to take an exam and get at least a one-hundred and twenty on it to qualify. • (5:47) He signed up for the gunnery in Texas, and then he was sent to Denver, CO to be trained on it. • (6:07) During the training he sat in the plane and used a ball to control the guns. He controlled four guns usually, but he could control two additional guns in the front as well. Usually the bombardier controlled those guns. • (7:00) In Denver, he was training to be on a crew, but was not actually part of a crew. He was in Denver about two months. • (7:39) He was sent to Fort Myers in Florida for more gunnery training. They used B-24’s and shot at moving targets pulled by other planes. • (8:07) The base in Florida was a larger base. He did not care for Florida because at the time it was a very wild area, with snakes and alligators, and swamps. • (9:03) When he was off-duty he didn’t do much. He moved around too often to get settled. He saw the USO a few times. �• • • • • • • • • • (9:35) He spent about ten hours day training. He had joined intending to be a pilot, but he was transferred because they had too many pilot applicants. He was made a gunner. (10:28) They shot skeet in Florida, to quicken their reaction time. (11:01) He went home for the holidays, and asked for an extra week because his mother was ill. He received the extra week, and was next sent to Lincoln, NE “the coldest place on Earth.” (11:45) They did not have B-29s yet, that was later. (12:13) Next he was sent to Clovis, NM. He was assigned to a unit in NM, and also got married. He had been seeing a woman for about two years, and she came down on a bus to visit him. (13:37) They had some B-29’s in NM, and the crew had nine or ten men. (14:06) He got along well with his crewmen. Two of them were Mormons, and one was Chinese. One of them had been an instructor. They were a “nice bunch.” (15:06) He used the remote control guns more later on. For now they mostly used mock ups. (15:26) He was in Clovis for six weeks, and then he was sent to Topeka, KS, to get a new plane. They were a replacement crew. (15:58) The B-29 was “very modern” for its time. It had better quality pressurization than other planes, and they only had to use the oxygen tanks when they were directly over their target. A mission usually lasted about fifteen hours. (10:52) Active Duty in the Pacific • (16:52) He was shipped to Sacramento, CA for a day or two and then they flew to Hawaii. They stayed there for three or four days, and they went to Midway. • (17:36) Midway was a very small island. They went to Tinian next, and left the plan there. They took a boat to Saipan, which was very close. • (18:05) They were based in Saipan. They stayed on base for about a week before being sent on their first mission. • (18:22) Missions were very tense, because of the uncertainty involved. Fighter planes were usually not an issue for the Americans at this point in the war. Most of the Japanese Air Force had been shot down. The main problem was enemy anti-aircraft fire. • (19:15) He flew missions at night, and missions during the day. During the day they flew five miles high, and at night missions, they flew two miles high. Sometimes they were lost in the smoke from the bombs. They could see the glow from their firebombs for miles. • (20:40) The Americans destroyed more buildings in Japan than they did in Europe. • (21:13) The Japanese had good fighter planes, which in some ways were better than the American fighters. • (21:46) The pilot once warned everyone about a kamikaze, but it turned out to be the moon. It sounds strange, but the missions were so tense it could have that kind of effect. �• • • • • • • • • (22:09) He did not see any kamikaze attacks himself. American planes were shot down frequently, he was told once in Saipan that he would be shot down at least once within two months. His unit was not shot down. He heard of some other men who were shot down, and they survived but “their nerves were shot.” He was warned to leave them alone. (23:16) He mostly knew the men in his crew, and not many others. (23:41) He visited Tinian after the war, while he was still in the service. He serviced the walk-in refrigerators by giving the generators gasoline. He had his own jeep, which was a luxury at the time. (24:21) He flew fourteen missions, and learned about the atomic bomb on the way back from a mission. The peace treaty had been delayed because the Japanese did not want to hand over their Emperor, but they did eventually. (25:11) They had a celebration once the peace was signed. Many of the troops had been disgusted with the Japanese for not surrendering earlier; they wanted to get the war over and done. They also were disgusted at the Japanese treatment of American POW’s. (26:14) He saw dead Japanese, but did not see many alive except in American POW camps. Entire families were in the camps, not just the soldiers. (27:24) He flew a mission once to bring supplies to Americans in a Japanese prisoner camp. One of the crate’s parachutes deployed in the bomb bay, so he had to go in and cut it loose while the bay doors were opened. (28:50) They did not actually land in Japan, but they got very close to the ground, just above the houses. He saw the damage of the war plainly, especially in Nagasaki. (29:36) The war ended in August, he went home in March, and was discharged April 5th. (29:59) Post-War Life, and Reflections • (29:59) He had volunteered to go on a mission to the Philippines, but he was sent home instead. The ride home was easy, and he landed in San Francisco. • (30:58) After the war, he became a carpenter. He had initially planned on taking a break, but his father found him work right away. • (31:35) As a carpenter, he walked on top of some very high buildings. He continued working as a contractor. • (33:07) While in Saipan, the Army had set up a hospital to prepare for the invasion of Japan. The hospital was not needed because of the atomic bomb and the peace treaty. • (33:46) He didn’t talk much about his war experience. • (34:15) He doesn’t think the service changed him very much. • (34:40) He was angry with the Japanese during the war, and didn’t feel sorry about the bomb at the time. He admits he may have been wrong to be angry and unsympathetic to them. �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanSingelH Title A name given to the resource Van Singel, Harris (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Singel, Harris Description An account of the resource Harris Van Singel was born in Byron Center, and has lived there his entire life. He went to school, and graduated from Byron Center School in 1940. He avoided the draft for four years because his two brothers had both enlisted, and because he was doing farm work. He enlisted in the Army Air Corps in 1944, and was trained as a remote control gunner on the B-29. He initially wanted to be a pilot, but they had too many applicants. He served in the Pacific theatre, and flew on 14 combat missions over Japan from a base on Saipan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Air Force World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-01-29 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4ca15f68fc121dad93c3d3d9cee6859f.mp4 f6fc7d4e690eea91f6c44e475598cd0d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3ebee482e1b62158b782c136d2911cb9.pdf dc61462e89a0c9f295ff97712ebef5a5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Larry Van Singel (00:38:52) (1:02) Pre-Enlistment • (1:02) Lived in Byron Center his entire life. He graduated high school in 1965. Vietnam was “on everyone’s mind,” at the time. When he was eighteen he went to Detroit and got a deferment because he was a student. Many of his friends did not go to college, and were drafted. • (1:55) He thinks most of the men in his class were drafted. • (2:06) He went to Grand Rapids Community College, called Grand Rapids Junior College at the time. He went for one year, and one semester of his second year. By this time all his friends had either been drafted or had enlisted. He met a woman he planned on marrying, and decided to enlist and get it out of the way since he would be drafted eventually anyway. He took a “voluntary draft” in 1967. (3:11) Enlistment/Training • (3:11) He went to Fort Knox, in Kentucky for basic training and AIT. AIT was advanced training, he became a radio operator. • (3:40) Basic training consisted mostly of running, marching, and learning military discipline. He also learned some basic combat. • (4:04) The drill sergeants were tough, but they needed to be, and it didn’t bother him much. Other men had trouble with the drill sergeants, and some had trouble with maintaining their weight. • (4:49) Men came from all over; his unit had many men from Michigan. • (4:54) A few had been to college, but most had not gone to college. • (5:09) He was taught to use a small radio, and he learned Morse code. They trained for eight to ten hours per day. The radios had voice capability, and he very rarely used Morse code. • (6:04) He was at Fort Knox until December. • (6:20) Next, he reported to California for out processing. The group ahead of him all went to Germany, and all of the men except the last three by alphabetical order in his group went to Germany. • (7:00) He was afraid, because he watched the news coverage. He was also disappointed because he was so close to going to Germany instead of Vietnam. • (7:47) He went home for the holidays, and left on January 6th, 1960. He arrived in Vietnam on January 10th. (8:10) Active Duty begins/HQ Position • (8:10) He was sent to a staging area once he arrived in Vietnam. His name was called six days later, and he was assigned to the 9th Infantry Division, Company B, which was a Headquarter Company. He was sent to Bearcat, near Saigon, and was going to be a radio operator. • (8:42) Saigon was relatively modern at the time. Command asked if he knew how �to type, and he did so he was put in a three-man “squad” of clerks. He worked in the office, and it was a relatively easy assignment. • (9:32) The Tet Offensive began in February. In addition to serving as a clerk, he also helped supply nearby areas. He went to Saigon three times during Tet, and witnessed destruction. They did not come under fire, and they did not have problems with mines. A convoy always guarded them. • (10:42) Morale at Bearcat was generally good. Most of the men at Bearcat were close to the end of their combat duty. • (11:19) He made some friends at Bearcat. Soon his assignment changed. A lieutenant asked for a .45, which he provided after some paperwork. Later on, his friend came and told him to eat something. Then his friend told him the sergeant had been fatally shot, and they were to be re-assigned. (12:41) Re-Transmitter Radioman • (12:41) He was to be a “re-tran radioman.” He was put into a small base between combat and base camp, with other men in eight hour shifts. They ran radios constantly, and were guarded and behind a fence. • (14:00) They would radio out in the field for three weeks or so per location. They were brought in and out by helicopter. He was forty or fifty miles south of Saigon, in the Mekong Delta. • (14:52) From the air, Vietnam was a beautiful farming country. The vegetation was very thick and green. • (15:42) They were “re-transmitters,” which meant they were to listen to transmissions and re-transmit them to their intended location if communications were cut. Usually they just listened, and were not needed. They did not get combat transmissions, but they were able to keep up on combat situations by listening to other transmissions content, especially death statistics. They rarely heard gunfire. • (17:25) He was sometimes afraid. They were occasionally mortared, so they usually slept in the bunker. • (18:00) He saw the locals very frequently, and thought they were friendly, and they had a good relationship. The women sometimes came into camp to do their laundry. They also bought egg sandwiches from them sometimes. Sometimes cooks came into the camp. This was not seen as a security risk because it was relatively rare, and they came in small numbers. • (19:10) He did not see much of ARVN, but did not have a very good impression. They seemed under-trained, and under-equipped. He did not see them in active duty. • (20:15) On the first of November, he took a test and got his sergeant’s stripes. That was his first time back in the base for a long time. • (20:49) The men mostly focused on their own small piece of the war, not on the war as a whole. • (21:19) They didn’t have much to do when off duty, and they usually just played cards. The men got along well, in part because cooperation was so vital. They also got to know some of the men in other communication bases. • (22:16) The war changed for him again one Sunday morning. He was told to report �to base, to the Red Cross, which usually meant that someone back home had died. He was picked up by the mail chopper, and did not take anything with him except the clothes on his back. • (23:00) At the Red Cross at base, he was notified that his brother Jim had died in a car accident. He was not given any further information, and worried about other members of his family. He had recently extended his duty by forty days so that he could finish his military service in one go, and then be back home and finished with it. • (24:00) Shortly after being notified of his brother’s death, he was told he was going to go home. He wanted to go back and retrieve his things, but he was not allowed to do so. The next morning he was on a plane back to the United States. (24:52) Flights to and From Vietnam/Post-War • (24:52) Both flights he flew on a civilian aircraft. • (25:08) When he landed in Vietnam, it was very stressful and overwhelming. He was at the initial area for six days. He saw his first American casualty in this area. • (25:47) He was very aware that the area was a warzone, but nobody else seemed to be aware of that fact. All the other men were accustomed to the situation. • (26:59) On the trip back, all the men cheered when the plane lifted off. He was unsure how to feel. He wanted to speed home and he also wanted not to go at all. He was very conflicted. • (27:19) They landed in California, and an Army man there helped them get new clothes and fill out the necessary paperwork. He had come back with only the greens he was wearing. • (28:12) They were given a plane ticket, and thirty-eight dollars. He was going to come back with another man. They took a taxi to the airport, paid the taxi, and then a young man tried to mug them. His companion knocked the man out with his duffle bag and they kicked him. They told security about the situation, and were asked to go quickly. • (29:39) The plane landed in Lansing, not Grand Rapids because of fog. He called his family at the airport before departing and could not reach them, so he called his fiancé. He found out his brother had died in a motorcycle accident, and found out the other members of his family were all right. He had not known until this pint whether anyone else had been in the accident. When he got home he went to the funeral. • (30:24) He had a thirty-day leave, and then he had to report to Fort Carson, Colorado. He arrived late and was given an Article 15, which involved disciplinary action and loss of rank. He didn’t care, and wanted nothing to do with the Army anymore. • (31:52) He was assigned a new unit, which was also set to go to Vietnam. He didn’t like the men in the new unit, so he was assigned to a new unit. He married that April. • (32:34) He and his wife lived off-base in a trailer until he finished his tour of duty in Colorado on July 10th, 1969. • (33:01) His last day on duty he had had to clean out the dishwasher, which involved �• • • • • • • getting inside it. Two sergeants came and ordered coffee at the end of his shift, he asked if they could come later since it was his last day and he wanted to finish it. They instead told him to make the coffee, and he would be done when he cleaned those dishes. Instead, he threw them away. He had to report to another sergeant for disciplinary action, but the sergeant told him “you survived, you’re done, get out and go home.” (34:39) He did not go back to college; he went to work at a golf course until November when the golf course closed. (35:01) He found a job making upholstery for caskets. He told his wife he would quit that job as soon as something else was available. Instead he worked for the man for thirty-seven years, and currently works for the man who bought the business. He ran three warehouses. (36:00) He moved back to Byron Center, two houses away from his father. He raised three children there, and he has eight grandchildren. (36:24) At the beginning, he was very negative about his time in Vietnam. It took a long time for him to cope with it. He recently went to the Vietnam Wall with three war buddies. It helped give him closure. (37:22) The war also helped him grow up, so he did have some positive experiences. (37:49) In 1999 he was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. It went away after successful treatment, and came back nine months later. He is currently in remission for five years. He thinks it may have something to do with the defoliants used in Vietnam. (38:31) He thinks the VA does a better job with treatment than it used to do. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanSingelL Title A name given to the resource Van Singel, Larry (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Singel, Larry Description An account of the resource Larry Van Singel grew up in Byron Center, MI, and volunteered for the Army in early 1967 since he expected to be drafted and wanted to have some choice in his training and assignment. He initially served as a clerk at the 9th Division headquarters outside of Saigon, and traveled into Saigon several times during the Tet Offensive. Next he served as a radioman at a small base in the Mekong Delta. He was brought home early because of a death in the family and served the rest of his tour in the United States. He discusses his own feelings about the war and the difficulties of adjusting to civilian life, as well as a visit to the Vietnam memorial in Washington. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-01-15 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/39c88ee6e5da1e84ee44b6cf078c8151.mp4 646dd19ebe2f510dd0f27ad432eff894 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/be9bde60490a62edf19ffea841767649.pdf 708d48cb025e80d96a60404bd3dc1855 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Willard Van Singel (59:58) (01:15) Background Information • Willard was born in 1918 in Grand Rapids, MI • His father was a carpenter, but also had to work on cars during the depression to make extra money • Willard graduated in 1936 and went to work at the Byron Center Bank (2:50) Drafted in July 1941 • He traveled from Kalamazoo to Texas in about two days • They had first went to Fort Custer in Battle Creek, MI for their physicals • It was very hot in Texas and hard for him to adjust (8:00) Training • He worked with M-1s for rifle training, marching, and combat drills • They stayed in Texas for about 3 years and he did administration, clerical, and supply work • Willard became a battalion supply sergeant (12:15) Overseas on the Queen Mary • Willard had tried to stay in the battalion supply area, but the battle in Europe was becoming very intense and he knew he would be sent there soon • They landed in England and received their supplies • They then crossed the channel to France at Omaha Beach (14:50) France • Willard was in a combat unit of the 83rd Infantry Division • He had to keep track of supplies; a buck sergeant • They were very close to the front lines and there were many casualties • Willard received platoon duties shortly after arriving and he became first sergeant • Willard was a replacement for a platoon that had already been fighting (18:10) Combat • Combat was a scary experience, but he worked with a lot of good men • It was worst in the hedge rows • They were supported by tanks and aircraft • Willard and his men moved south towards dangerous territory and travelled mainly by foot • They travelled through Paris, which was not too damaged and the locals were nice (25:00) Battle of the Bulge �• • • • • • • • There was very cold weather for a very long time They went through Belgium later in the battle Willard lost some of his crew to German snipers He felt that the Germans were a disciplined army; they were more experienced and well trained The Germans most likely had better equipment and technology The snow was very deep and you could only keep warm by constantly moving They could not build fires, because it would help the Germans to spot them They went from Belgium to the Netherlands, and then Germany (36:50) The Netherlands • They were very friendly people, but very poor with not much food • Some of the soldiers slept with some of the locals (38:15) Germany • The German citizens were good people • As the war was ending, they still faced some German resistance • As they traveled into Eastern Germany, they encountered refugees that were heading west and trying to get away from the Russians • The American troops did not trust the Russians and the Russians did not trust them either • Willard had once been warned that they might have to fight the Russians some day (41:35) Russia • They crossed a river and went into Russian-held territory • The Russians were rough; the Germans would rather surrender to the Americans than the Russians (43:10) The End of the War • Everyone was happy and they knew that good days were ahead • The Germans were giving up quite easily towards the end of the war • There were many Germans that surrendered to his unit • They left Europe shortly before the bombs were dropped on Japan • Willard was on a ship headed towards the US when the bombs were dropped (48:50) Back in the US • Willard went back to working at the bank and was eventually promoted to the president • He later took night classes at Davenport University • He felt that he met many great people while in the service • Willard had been married before his time in Europe; when he returned they had children and bought a house � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanSingelW Title A name given to the resource Van Singel, Willard (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Singel, Willard Description An account of the resource Willard Van Singel was drafted into the Army in 1941 and trained in Texas. He spent 3 years in Texas working as a battalion supply sergeant and also helped with administration and clerical work. Willard then served in the 83rd Infantry Division, landing in France in late 1944. He switched from being a supply sergeant to being a platoon sergeant in a rifle company and saw action in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany. He fought in the Battle of the Bulge and at the end of the war met the Soviets east of the Elbe River. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-11-01 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f9af23d84cd81e2cb52b3d289858144d.mp4 230f4e38a4f67603e00d993090362107 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bf312f960b28097185e8703d15f8afb4.pdf 87dd8be9a073b3a91db68800e371c4ed PDF Text Text Garret Van Solkema (1:26:16) (00:08) Background Information • Garret was born in Byron Center, Michigan in 1919 • His Father was a Foreman at Berkey and Gay Furniture in Grand Rapids, Michigan • They moved to Holland, Michigan because his dad got a job at Baker Furniture • He attended Holland Christian High for 2 years but his family needed money so his dad got him a job at where he used to work in Grand Rapids • When Garret was 18 he joined the Civilian Conservation Corps in Au Sable, Michigan • They fought fires and planted trees for a dollar a day • After that he went back home to work on the farm • He went to work with his brother at Nash Kelvinator making evaporators • In the summer of 1941 Garret was drafted (5:48) Training • First went to Fort Custer in Battle Creek, Michigan • He then went to Fort Knox for basic training • He went through Armored School and learned how to fire a .50 caliber machine gun • They didn’t have much to equipment to train with • Garret went to Fort Benning with the 2nd Armored Division and got more equipment to train with • He was with the Ammunition Battery and trained to bring ammo to the front lines • They trained with half-tracks • He heard their Commander, General Patton speak when he was a one star General and thought he swore too much • They did maneuvers in Tennessee and North Carolina (18:14) Deployment in 1942 • Garrett spent 23 days on the Atlantic Ocean �• The ship didn’t carry any equipment • They dumped many depth charges for German U-Boats • The boat landed in North Africa • Their job was to overthrow the Moroccan Government [to take control of Morocco from the Vichy French] • Then they moved up the coast to Tunisia where they were on standby to fight the Germans • There were a lot of Arabs and they would steal from the soldiers (30:35) Sicily • They went to Sicily in an LST • They fought with the Army Rangers and had a lot of respect for them • Garret came into contact with German tanks and US P-38 planes • He spent 6 months in Sicily • On one occasion they caught fish with a grenade and a mine, and the locals cooked them (40:57) England • On the way to England they passed the Rock of Gibraltar • Before they got to England they had to get inspected for STDs • They landed in Glasgow, Scotland and did maneuvers • Garret had a girlfriend in London • The Germans were attacking London and they had to hide in the subways when they were visiting • They spent about 6 months in England (49:35) Omaha Beach, France • They couldn’t go the first day of the battle because of the waves, so they went the 2nd day • After Omaha they went to St Lo and cleared it out (52:47) Rommel’s Headquarters �• There were about 80,000 Germans at the HQ [Falaise pocket] • His division was supposed to take over a road near the back • They bombed the HQ with planes • Garret received a Bazooka • The Germans ended up retreating (1:00:03) Netherlands • They captured Maastricht • The townspeople were grateful • Sometimes they would have to move 40-50 miles a day • The MPs told them where to go • The Germans caught 3 of their tanks and let the people come back (1:03:30) Wounded • Garret was wounded in Palenberg, Germany • It was towards the end of the Siegfried line • He got 17 stitches near his bottom lip and was out for a week (1:06:22) Battle of the Bulge • The Battle happened by the Meuse River • The German SS troops broke through the lines on Christmas day • General Harmon gave orders to not take any prisoners • They stopped the Germans and regrouped at St Vith • Then went to Liege and Maastricht • The German people were very nice �(1:12:15) Potsdam • President Truman was going to the Potsdam Conference and asked the 2nd Armored Division to be there as his Honor Guards • General Patton saved some white horses from the Germans and they put on a show • The Russians also did a show • Stalin and Churchill also attended the show (1:16:20) Back to the US • The mean were loaded on a boat in France • They Landed in Boston, Massachusetts • Garret was discharged in Pennsylvania • He had low blood pressure so the doctors wanted to keep him but he had been away from home for 3 years so he wanted to get back (1:21:08) After Discharge • Garret went back to work at Kelvinator • Later he went to help his brother on a farm in Burnips, Michigan (1:24:05) How the Military Affected Him • Taught to kill or be killed • It took about 4 years to get rid of the desire to kill � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanSolkemaG Title A name given to the resource Van Solkema, Garret (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Solkema, Garret Description An account of the resource Garret Van Solkema was born in Byron Center, Michigan in 1919. He was drafted in 1941 and went into the 2nd Armored Division commanded by General Patton. He landed in North Africa and fought in Sicily, Normandy, Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany. Garret attended the Potsdam Conference as an Honor Guard. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-11-29 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6cf9bdcc4c4266ce06cab40fb244a63b.m4v 1829901270cfd44d9c7f1d79ad5d9db8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/81bbc07983406b7c594a4809d475a7cc.pdf 50bda78f9d7930d73d4e163b92d5387a PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW HOWARD VAN SOLKEMA Born: 1950, Grand Rapids, Michigan Resides: Byron Center, Michigan Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, October 16, 2013 Interviewer: Mr. Van Solkema, can you start my telling us a little bit about yourself, to begin with where and when were you born? I was born in Butterworth Hospital in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and I’ve lived my whole life in Byron Center. Interviewer: What year were you born? 1950 Interviewer: Alright, and what did your family do? My father, he owned a carpet store and my mother worked with him. We lived in the 72nd /Byron Center Road area that’s where I grew up until I went into the service. Interviewer: Did you finish high school? 1:00 Yes, I went to Byron High School and I graduated in 1968. Interviewer: Then did you work while you were in high school or when you got out? Yes, I worked in muck fields when I was young and after high school I worked for my father and I worked a little bit at Dexter Lock prior to the service. Interviewer: Before you got your draft notice were you paying much attention to what was going on around you with the Vietnam War going on and that kind of thing? 1 �Yes Interviewer: Did you expect that you would probably get drafted? Yes, I didn’t go to college and it had already happened to a lot of classmates. Interviewer: Then when did your draft notice show up? December of 1968 Interviewer: Where did you have to report, or what did you have to do, once you got the notice? In January I had to go down for a physical, down to Detroit. 2:02 That’s when I—they passed me in the physical and I opted for the two year program in the Marines, vs. the Army. Interviewer: Were they giving you an assortment of choices once you got there? They didn’t just automatically put you in the Army or something? No, we had—the Navy had a two year program, Naval Reserve Program I think they call it, but then you had to have four years of meetings. Interviewer: Meetings, do you mean like the Reserve meetings once they are back? Yes, Reserve meetings, and then the Army was two years and done and the Marines were two years and you were done. I had a lot of family members that were Marines, so I kind of—wasn’t scared of going into that. Interviewer: Had they told you something about what Marine training was like and what it meant to be a Marine? 3:01 Yes, I thought I’d be tougher. Interviewer: You had some idea of what to expect at least? Yes 2 �Interviewer: Or at least you thought you did. Now, where did they send you then for basic training? I went to San Diego, California. I had basic training there and the second training was in Camp Pendleton. Interviewer: Let’s go back to the basic training, how were you greeted when you got to the base in San Diego? Yellow footprints, the haircuts, and the loud drill instructors Interviewer: Explain the yellow footprints, what are those? Well, when you arrive at San Diego they bring you in by bus and then they have you get off that bus and find a set of yellow footprints real fast. 4:00 That’s just part of the first day of training. Interviewer: So, you’re standing there on the footprints and whatever formation the footprints have and then they start—are they explaining things to you, yelling things at you? Yelling and you better start listening Interviewer: How tough was the conditioning process? How much of a workout did you get? We had, our platoon, which was I Company 3018, and we were a test platoon, so they-for PT the other platoons could wear tennis shoes, but our platoon had to wear our boots all the time. In fact, instead of getting two sets of boots we got three sets of boots because we were using them constantly. 5:08 The end result was we were a lot stronger, our legs got a lot stronger. Interviewer: Because you had to lift more weight, was that the reason? 3 �We had our PT and our runs. Interviewer: What was the point of having you wear the boots, were they testing the effect of the boots? I think they were looking at everything from feet—you know the government looks at thing—I mean the service looks at things a lot different. Interviewer: They care about what happened to your feet. Yes, definitely Interviewer: Did you do a lot of marching, was that part of it, or did you go on long hikes? No, not in boot camp, but we did a lot of running. Before breakfast, of course, we would be out running around. 6:04 We’d change out of our PT shorts into our dungarees and go to breakfast and then from there on it was—we had classes on different things, a lot of drill, a lot of marching and we marched between classes. That’s where you learn your skills of your weapon. Interviewer: What kind of weapons training did you get at that point, was it just basically with a rifle? It was basically an M14, carrying and disassembly. Interviewer: You mentioned classes, were they sit down in a classroom type classes? Yes, we had quite a few of them. We had—well, there’s a lot to learn. 7:00 Not only about your weapons, but you learn history, Marine Corps history, there’s medical stuff that you have to learn, there’s what to do when a situation is this way and that way and it teaches you all the basics of the military. 4 �Interviewer: Right, now how well did you adjust to the discipline? Did you respond pretty quickly to that? I didn’t really have any problem with it and my background probably helped a lot. Interviewer: Were there other people who had more trouble with it? Yes, there were a lot of people who had trouble with it. Interviewer: Now the guys that you were in with, were they mostly draftees at that point, or were there a lot of people who volunteered? Well, we had a mixture, we had reservists, guys that were just going for training and then they would go back to their units and guys that might have gotten in trouble with the law. 8:03 I think they had a little bit harder problems than what a country bumpkin like me would have. Interviewer: What kind of ethnics did you have? Did you have black and Hispanic soldiers in there, or were they mostly white? We had the majority of boot camp, we were out of Michigan, New York and a lot of Texas and mostly white, and a lot of them were three and four year enlistees also, so a two year guy was kind of different and I was probably the minority. There were more reservists and three and four year enlistees. Interviewer: So, you had a substantial number of people who had volunteered and weren’t simply ones who were drafted. 9:00 Yes Interviewer: Once you complete basic training and then move on to advance training, describe that a little bit. 5 �Well, in basic training you get your MOS is what it’s called, and mine was 0-300, which is infantry. Interviewer: Okay Then when you go up to your advanced training they categorize you and I was a machine gunner, 0-331 that’s what I trained with. Interviewer: Now, is that a 30 caliber machine gun? Yeah, that’s a 7.62 mm, it’s a 308. Interviewer: So it’s the more advanced model than stuff they had in WWII and Korea, was it more recent? Yeah, it was an M60 machine gun, yeah, more advanced than the old 30 caliber that they had in WWII. 10:03 Interviewer: Now, did you train on any other weapons as well, besides the rifle? Yes, in AIT you train with every weapon, bazookas, they had a weapon called the LAW [light antitank weapon], it was like the bazooka. I didn’t go into any mortar training, but all small arms training, forty- fives, the forty-five was my other weapon I carried. Interviewer: You carried a pistol as well as the machine gun. Now, in what ways was the advanced training different from basic? The content is a little bit different, obviously, because you’re getting into more specialized stuff, but was there as much emphasis on drill and discipline, otherwise you’re going to stay in the same format or did they assume you knew what you were doing now? 11:00 Well, we really didn’t have much drill, but when we did march as a unit we marched as drill, but the training was in the hills and the high ground in California—Camp Pendleton, and there were a lot of high hills there. 6 �Interviewer: And you spent a lot of overnights out in the hills, you camped out there or were you mostly back in the barracks? The majority of the time was back in the barracks, but we did have a deal where they took us out and I think we spent three days, or something, out in the field. Interviewer: The people who were your instructors at this point, were some of these people now Vietnam veterans? Yes, they were all Vietnam veterans. Interviewer: Did they tell you much about what it was like over there or what they had experienced? That’s what they—they didn’t really tell you about it, but they instilled the training, the types of training that you need. 12:09 They knew what was going on, and the booby trap training and this and that, they would tell you what to look for and when you made a mistake they would tell you also. Interviewer: At the stage where you’re in advanced training, have you gotten any opportunities yet to go off base at all, did you get any free time, or is it still all regimented? Yeah we did, we got to go to—there was a town there called Oceanside and then they would give us liberty on Sunday to go over. They had movie theaters and different things like that, but we weren’t old enough to go to bars or do any of that stuff yet. Interviewer: How long does the advanced infantry training go on? Well, I think— well, I went to a second training there and that was called BITS. 13:11 It’s called basic infantry training and that’s where they really hone your skills. I think I was in like a month in ITR and I think another two or three weeks in BITS. 7 �Interviewer: Now, you say hone your skills, what in particular were you working on at that point? That’s where you’re constantly caring your gun, the machine gun, you’re constantly on the move, you’re up around there and all the marines there were trails, I mean we followed the trails the other marines went, but then they hone you towards a booby trap and then different things you can run into and the problems you can have with your gun. 14:00 Interviewer: Now, with this gun did you need a loader as well, were you a two man crew? Yeah, the second guy was an ammo carrier and his job was to keep you supplied, but we were all machine gunners, the ammo carriers is what we did for another guy, they switched us back and forth. Interviewer: So you do both roles. Yeah, we do both roles Interviewer: You weren’t the same team all the time, you work with different people? Yes Interviewer: Okay, now at this point is the expectation that when you finish this you’ll be sent off and you’ll be replacements in different units rather than going as a company someplace? Right, the next step was a leave home and I went home for the first time and then I was to report to, it was called LTA at Santa Ana, California. 15:03 Interviewer: What is that? 8 �That’s where they had their blimps in WWII. They had two huge domes and they’re still there. One of them was so huge it has its own atmosphere. It could rain and when the doors were fully open, four helicopters could fly abreast through it, it was a big building. Interviewer: Now, was this kind of a staging area or place where you shipped out, or where you get more training? I got more training there, but what it was—I thought I was going to spend the rest of my tour there, it was a regular base. 16:00 I was assigned first to the gate, like an MP and then they had a lot of guys on that base that were Vietnam veterans that had already come back and they were spending the rest of their time out, so they had plenty of MP’s, so then they threw me in the mess hall for a while. It was like they didn’t know what to do with me. Then I ran into a guy and he said they needed somebody at the headquarters building, so I went up there and talked to them. What they needed was a guy at night to check in people for leaves and that. It was a twelve hour shift and I really didn’t know too many people, so I took that and I got that position there. 17:00 Then when the headquarters building—you know they would close up the main part, but then the entrance there they would have an area for leave and they had a bunk there and everything, a television and it wasn’t bad duty. Interviewer: How was it then that you wind up leaving that position? Well, it was just a—I had a year left, or so in the service and then I was going to take another leave. In fact, I took another leave and when I was on leave I got orders up at— that I was going to WESPAC, which means Vietnam, Okinawa or Japan. 18:00 Interviewer: On leave would you just go back home? 9 �Yeah, I went back home and then I was able to stay, I think, another ten days at home before I had to report back to Camp Pendleton for staging. Interviewer: How did your family feel about your being in the Marines at this point? Were they worrying about what might happen to you? I don’t think they were worried too much, you know. We got—I would call home every Sunday and then when I went overseas I think my mom worried quite a bit. Interviewer: Describe the trip overseas. How do they get you across the Pacific? Do they fly you over? Yeah, there were a couple different ways of going, one of them was you took—like if the air force had somebody going over, or the way I went was with Seaboard World West. 19:02 Interviewer: What was that? That was an old Boeing 707 that they gutted out. You had folding chairs, you carried your own folding chair, and it was gutted out and kind of a mess. Interviewer: Now, could that fly all the way across the Pacific, or did it have to stop? No, no we stopped in Alaska and they refueled and checked everything over and that took a couple hours and then we flew to Japan and then from Japan we went to Okinawa. That’s when I knew I was going to Vietnam. We didn’t know if we were going to stay in Okinawa, nobody knew, but then the orders—they called it “down south”, going “down south”. Interviewer: Now, did you spend any amount of time in Okinawa, or just a few hours? 10 �Well, the guys that were going “down south’ had to keep their gear together. 20:04 What they did, they took your gear and anybody going south they gave camo this and that. We had no weapons, no anything else. We stored our gear in Okinawa, otherwise if we’d stayed in Okinawa you’d be assigned someplace and get your gear. Interviewer: So, you’re being sent and at this point do you know what unit you’re going to join, or does that come later? That comes later. Interviewer: You’re still going over there basically not knowing. Right, you’re kind of in the dark. I was assigned to the 1st Marine Division, which was located in Da Nang, but as far as assignments, I didn’t know. Interviewer: From Okinawa then did you fly into Da Nang, or did you go someplace else? 21:03 No, we flew into Da Nang. Interviewer: Alright, what was your first impression when you got there and got off the airplane? What was that like at that point? The place smelled and it was hot, that—it just stunk, that city area—a terrible smell. Interviewer: You get off the plane and so forth, now do they take you off to barracks someplace, where do you go once you get off the plane? Well, we landed about, I don’t know, maybe it would be nine in the morning, or something, and we got off the tarmac there—we flew from there with a commercial airline from Okinawa to Vietnam. 22:00 It wasn’t the same 707 and that was—when we left that morning it was dark in Okinawa and when we got to Vietnam it was light. I think it was like a four hour, or three hour flight, and maybe less. Then we landed in 11 �country and it was extremely hot for that time of the morning and it was just something that you're sick—it was kind of like a shock to you. Interviewer: What is your first indication that you’re going into a war zone? Were there any signs even there when you landed at Da Nang, or did that come later when you really see it? Well, you gotta kind of understand, I was a machine gunner and I was landed in Da Nang and it was kind of obvious I was getting close to somewhere, but I didn’t know where. Interviewer: Were there signs at Da Nang that this is a military thing and there’s a war going on? 23:00 Oh yeah, we got off the airplane and it was like getting off the bus at boot camp. You get off there in case something happens you know, and you know right then—we had training and staging and this and that, so we kind of knew. We still weren’t scared or anything, I mean you never got shot until later. Interviewer: Now, how long did you actually stay in Da Nang? Before the sun was setting I was already twenty three miles, they said it was twenty three miles, southwest of Da Nang. Interviewer: So, you were being set out to a particular unit at that point? Yeah, I was sent out to the 7th Marines. Interviewer: How were they getting you out there? Were you going by truck? By truck, we went by truck, and they loaded us up. Interviewer: Now, as you’re going out there, what indications did you have that there was a war going on? Did you see any evidence of fighting, or anything like that had happened, or anything like that? 24:04 12 �No Interviewer: Was it just a country road at that point? It was a country road the closer you got to—we went to a place called Landing Zone, it was called Landing Zone Baldy and the closer you got there you could see indications. There were some French bunkers and stuff and different things that were all shot up and you knew you were in there. I still didn’t have a machine gun. The other guys had rifles, but I still didn’t have a gun. Interviewer: Now, when you get to Landing Zone Baldy, and then do they assign you to a particular platoon? Yes, I was assigned to King Company 3/7. Interviewer: What was the situation there when you got there? What was going on? K-3/7 was protecting the base. 25:05 1/7 and 2/7 were in the field. Interviewer: What were they doing, were they patrolling? Yeah, they were patrolling and you know—there were two rivers there, or two names of a river Bong Song, or whatever it is river and that’s the basin where they were. Interviewer: On the base, what did it look like and how was it laid out? Well, it had—it was on top of a hill, of course and there was all the perimeters with sandbags filled, bunkers and concertina wire and some barbed wire around the edge. 26:07 Interviewer: Did you have mine fields around it too? 13 �They had mines and claymores that were hand shot off type of mines that they would set out and move this and that and check out. Flare mortars and different things like that around the edge of it. Interviewer: Now, was this—what was your first night there like? Were you on guard duty or were you trying to sleep, or what? Well, we got there and what they did was they billeted us and we had—I got to go to a billet that was made by a carpenter and it had a floor up on it, and a mattress and the whole thing, but I still didn’t have a machine gun. I still hadn’t checked in there and gotten that from the commanding officer yet. 27:06 they didn’t put us on the perimeter, but we did get hit that night and they had an Ontos they call it, it was a 106 tank, a 106 mm tank and they said they hadn’t shot it in over a month at the enemy and that thing was fired quite regularly that night, so it was setting in. Interviewer: What were you being attacked with? Was it mortar fire coming in or were there people shooting at the base? What they would do is they would probe. They would hit RPG’s and try to hit them bunkers and mortars, not much small arm weapons, but they would hit and run and try to cause casualties. Interviewer: What was the response to the? 28:01 Did you try to saturate the area with fire? They would flare it and try to artillery it and they would try to hit as good as they could with arty and they had mortars too, we had mortars. 14 �Interviewer: But you had to figure out where the enemy was in the first place and if they were moving then it could be fairly tricky. Did they do any damage when they attacked that first night, did anybody get hit? I really don’t know as far as that, because everything was organized way beyond what I knew was going on. I was hunkered down in a bunker that night. Interviewer: How long was it before you got a machine gun? The next morning, we were geared up. Interviewer: Now, what was the condition of the platoon that you joined? Were they well manned and were they pretty much full strength? 29:00 No, they were low on men, but I think the regular company would be about two hundred guys and I think ours was about a hundred. Interviewer: Did you have officers or sergeants that were pretty experienced and knew what they were doing? Yeah, but they were quiet too and if they told you something you better listen Interviewer: Were they basically trying to teach the new guys stuff they were going to have to know, or they were just going to let you figure that out for yourself? Well, the first phase is the amount of work you do when you’re in the field, you know, and that teaches you that when somebody talks you listen, because when you first get there you can’t drink enough water, you know. 30:03 You can get a gut ache from salt tablets and you just try to keep up, and pretty soon your body gets worked up, worked into the system. In fact, I don’t really remember too much of a lot of that and just how much work it was. Interviewer: How long was it before you had to go out in the field yourself? 15 �Well, 1/7 and 2/7 were out and then we went on a sweep where we joined them and the South Vietnamese Marines, I think, came in and took over our base. Then we went on a sweep, or operation and we were out there for forty days. 31:07 Over forty days in the field. Interviewer: Now, what was the terrain like there? Was it jungle or hills? Yeah, everything had growth on it, everything had cover and there were like valleys and hills. You pretty much, you know like when I was first there I didn’t have no rank so I didn’t really know what was going on the radio behind anything. What was behind the scenes, you’re just out there. Interviewer: You’re just going where they tell you to go. Right and doing what they tell you to do. Interviewer: On a sweep, was the idea to kind of to have enough force within a given area and be able to move through and find any enemy soldiers and take them out? Right, encampments, materials, on that one sweep a guy, down on one of the river edges there; he found some rifles that were in the bank. 32:12 The scuttlebutt was that he went into the river to cool off and happened to catch something on his pants or something like that, and then we had to stop right there at that point and set up perimeters and then they brought in the engineers and they started finding weapons caches and rice and that was part of the big sweep that we had. Interviewer: The idea was that if they had supplies stored in places, the men themselves might leave or get out of your way or whatever. 16 �They knew exactly what we were doing all the time. It ain't like you think it is, you know. 33:00 When you have casualties there’s helicopters going in and out and there’s supply trucks coming in and out. There was no front line there, to cover that kind of activity, so they basically knew what we were doing most of the time. Interviewer: Now, would they try to attack you at night or try to pick off the helicopters or trucks, or anything like that? Yes, they would—that was their—ambushing, booby traps, this type of thing that was their style of going to war, to have as many casualties as possible. They tried to break the morale of the troops. Interviewer: Now, about when is this? Is it 1970 yet, or was it still 1969? No, this is—in 1970 I went over and in 1971 I came home. Interviewer: So, by then Nixon has been in office for a while. 34:04 The Marines are on their way out. The first group to go was the 9th Marines and then the 7th Marines were next, or one of the next on the list. Interviewer: So, on some level the Vietnamese were fighting against you and you get a sense they are getting their way or accomplishing what they were trying to accomplish? Yup Interviewer: Now, how effective were you at this point or the Marines at this point, at avoiding the ambushes and the booby traps and so forth? Have they learned enough about how the Vietcong and the North Vietnamese operate that they didn’t fall for a lot of that, or were you still just taking casualties just the way as you moved? 17 �Well, they were good at it and they figured out different ways of doing it. 35:00 They didn’t do just certain things all the time, they were very ingenious and had a lot in ingenuity as far as stuff. And the way they attacked was different every time and there was no rhyme or reason. Interviewer: So, what you learned before doesn’t necessarily help you the next time. Yeah Interviewer: Now, was your company or platoon taking casualties as you were going? Were more people being shot at, or did you mostly stay together? We had, in the year that I was there, or it wasn’t quite a year, but we pretty much had that area cleaned up. It—later on it got infiltrated and they got back in there, but there wasn’t—we didn’t have casualties like they did in the years earlier. Interviewer: So, on some level what they’re doing is at least working better, probably, than some of the earlier tactics that they used, or you’ve done well enough already that they are not choosing to fight you there. 36:09 They picked it out, but we never really did—I never really was in a big battle, it was always just small skirmishes here. Interviewer: Now, when you were out in the field did you ever actually see anything of the enemy? Oh yeah Interviewer: As far as you could tell, were they North Vietnamese soldiers? No, it was—we fought the North Vietnamese and I believe some of them were Chinese too, because some of them were six feet tall and that’s a big person. Interviewer: It’s a big person for the Chinese too. 18 �Yeah but--yeah, they were pretty big, some of them were pretty big. 37:02 That would be casualties that they took, what I’d see. Interviewer: Now, were they wearing North Vietnamese uniforms? Yeah, they were wearing North Vietnamese uniforms and a lot of them, you know, had paper work on them. ID, tags, and different things like that. Interviewer: So, at this point there’s not a whole lot of evidence of Vietcong, or South Vietnamese who hadn’t joined the Vietnamese army? Well, they could have been South Vietnamese, but the South Vietnamese, or the Vietcong, they were kind of a community oriented type back stabbing outfit that through their communications and their network of getting supplies different places, they were really—we didn’t really run into too much of that. 38:01 Interviewer: Were you in an area that had villages and things that you went through, was there still a civilian population there or was it mostly empty? 38:07 No, the civilian population was there and the closer you got to Da Nang the bigger the villages were, but there were villages out in different areas. But, the villages there kind of had to go with who was walking through was number one and when the North Vietnamese were walking through they were number one. They didn’t have to fear us for doing anything to them, but they had to fear them, because they would take someone out and they were nasty to their people, very nasty. Interviewer: They used terror as a means of maintaining as much control as they could in the countryside as part of the package. Now, when you were—did you get to go into Da Nang at all? Did you get liberty, or whatever, where you could go off base, or did you just stay with your unit the whole time you were out there? 39:04 19 �When I was with the 7th Marines we were southwest of Da Nang and west of Da Nang and then they were winding up to pull out for home in the fall of 1970. Then I was transferred to the 5th Marines, which were up north and that was the same type of territory, mountainous and plain, and lowlands, but it was a little bit different than south. It wasn’t so much—so many foothills and stuff. It was either big hills or a little bit different terrain and some of it was nice flat farmland, some of that. Interviewer: So, it wasn’t all jungle? No Interviewer: Was it dry farmland as opposed to rice? Mostly rice paddies 40:01 Interviewer: Rice paddies, so that’s dykes and mud and that sort of thing? Dykes, yes Interviewer: Now, in that area, was that more dangerous than the first? Were there more of the enemy around? The chance of having a bigger group hit you, I think, was there, but we really never ran into a regiment of them, they would always run from us. Interviewer: Did you ever, basically, walk into an ambush or part of a small unit that was in the wrong place? Oh yeah Interviewer: What would happen with something like that, how would that work? Well, like let’s say—well, I can give you an example, we got—we were pinned down by, I think we had two companies, I think K Company and L Company. 41:07 L company was ahead of us , well they shot off across the front of them, and then they had another 20 �guy in position and he started shooting at us, but we didn’t have any casualties and everybody was alright. Interviewer: Were these riflemen or machine gunners? I believe they had eight, I don’t know how many there were, but they had AK 47’s and machine guns up there, and we were in a perfect position to get ambushed. Interviewer: Right But there were no casualties yet and anytime anybody tried to move someone was going to get hit if we tried to do anything. We were in a perfect bad spot. Interviewer: What do you do when you’re in a bad spot like that; do you radio in for air support or something? We called in for artillery and they said, “We can’t do it because we have a chance of hitting you guys where they’re at”. 42:00 So then they called in a pair of helicopters and they took a—they were Cobras with miniguns on the front and we tried to spot, we spotted for them and they just ground up the whole area with the miniguns, and everybody was standing up watching, and the Cobras took off and they started shooting again. Everybody was down and we still didn’t have any casualties, so then they took a inbound F-4’s, they were off from a carrier and they hit both spots precisely, navy pilots, and we never did find a machine gun or anything. They hit it hard enough that it was gone, completely gone. 43:02 Interviewer: So, either they got out of there, or they were blasted out. They didn’t really have any way out there, they were kind of-Interviewer: They were sort of holed up in caves or positioned? Yeah, they were carved out like that. 21 �Interviewer: So, you could find the place where they were? No, we couldn’t find that either, it was impossible. Interviewer: Now, were there other situations where you just have to wait for it to get dark before you get out, or normally you call in fire from someplace? We could call in any type arsenal anytime. That wasn’t my job, but I saw napalm, I saw five hundred pounders and I saw a B-52 strike, which is later on in the thing. With the 5th Marines I went to—we were up north and then the South Vietnamese were setting up to go into Laos in January of 1971. 44:09 They did that offensive, and we were south of the main attack. We weren’t allowed to go towards Laos and then the B-52’s just pounded it. I don’t know how anybody could live through a B-52 strike. Interviewer: Some of them did, if you’re underground in the right place. You’d have to lose your hearing, or something. We were five miles away and the whole ground shook and the noise was just like a roar. Interviewer: Now, did you have any sense of, from your perspective generally, how the war was going? 45:03 As far as you could tell, were the Americans and South Vietnamese of holding their own, or gaining ground, or losing it? Like I said earlier, we were in full control of that country. I think after that offensive in 1968 they kind of broke their back before I arrived there, and they had things under control real well. Interviewer: It seems to vary a lot depending on where one was in the country at the time, because there were places where there were some effective attacks and problems, and others where there wasn’t much trouble at all, so some of it was time and place. 22 �Well, some of the units got hit hard, you know. It would be that I wasn’t in a unit that got hit hard. Prior to me getting there the same—after forty days in the field we went to LZ Ross, which was another base. 46:04 That was ten miles away from LZ Baldy, and that had been overrun at one portion to where the Marines there really got hurt, and that was the 7th Marines also. But, I just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Interviewer: Now, what rank were you by the time you finished in Vietnam? I was a sergeant. Interviewer: Were you leading a squad at that point, or what were you doing? Well, there was one point there where there were so few NCO’s and the officer corps was real light. 47:03 And so were the enlisted men, real light, you know. I made one comment one time that I was in charge of a hundred guys, you know, but maybe I wasn’t and just thought I was too. Interviewer: So there were times when you could be injecting the size of the company just because you were the guy taking care of them. Everything from injuries, you know, to going on R&R. There are a million things to take care of when you got guy to take care of. Interviewer: You have to keep track of everybody and everything. Was this—did you have a system where people were going in and out on rotation, so the men you start with go out and some new guys come in? Yes and that’s what we really had trouble with, because there were so many—when a guy would leave for home, sometimes you’d get a new guy in from the United States and sometimes you’d get a guy from the unit. 48:09 someone who is getting close to going home, because the unit is going home, so we had a mixture of people, and that’s why, 23 �when I was over there I was never with a unit and where I really got to be buddies with too many people. It seemed like if you got to be buddy with him, he might be gone in a month or something. Interviewer: As it was, the whole unit you started with left and you’re one of those guys that gets reassigned to another unit yourself. Right and I was shipped up to the 5th Marines and there it was all over again. Interviewer: What sort of effect did that have on the effectiveness of the units themselves? What they were able to do? I think it was real tough for them, because when you train with a unit you know what everybody is like and what they’re capable of and this and that. 49:00 When you get in that situation you don’t know what they’re capable of and then you’ve got slackers, and short timers, and the new guys, they don’t know what they’re doing and it’s just a mixture of chaos. Interviewer: When they come in you’ve got to figure them out to some extent, at least when you have to look after them to some degree. Now, were there discipline problems? Did you have people who were disobeying orders, or doing other kinds of things to get in trouble, or by and large did they do what they were supposed to? I never experienced that too much, but we did have a couple guys that didn’t like each other and that type of thing, but as far as discipline, they could take away rank and they could ship you out. 50:00 We didn’t have too much of a problem with that, but we didn’t really, there was no base, basically, there was no nothing and you were on your own kind of to live. 24 �Interviewer: Basically you were pretty much out in the field an awful lot of the time and you were away from the larger towns or the bigger bases and things like that. Now, one of the stereotypes, or whatever, about Vietnam is that there were a lot of problems with drug abuse and racial tension and that sort of stuff and often away from the combat zones, much less in it. Was that fit your observation? Where you were, you didn’t have so much of that? Well, the base that I ended up at, Force Logistic Command, they had racial tension there. In fact, there was—a grenade went off and that type of thing. 51:04 We didn’t have any fragging’s or any of that stuff they say there was. We were too tired, too hungry and too thirsty to worry about doing anything wrong. We had other stuff to worry about. Interviewer: If you are in contact with the enemy, or fairly close to them, you need each other. Yes Interviewer: Now, you mentioned being with the logistic command, so at a certain point do you move out of the line unit and into something else? Well, the 5th Marines were getting setup to move and I still had two and a half months to go yet in my tour, so the 5th Marines were getting ready to load up and I went to Force Logistic Command, which was a base and it’s where the Marines originally landed in Vietnam, Red Beach. Interviewer: And where was that in the country? 52:01 Was it up north? It was north of Da Nang; I don’t know how many miles, ten or twelve maybe. Then that was a supply base for the army, the Marines, the Korean Marines, the Australians had an 25 �area, and it was a big base. What I did there, I was a head of a section and a wire on the perimeter, on the north side. Interviewer: You were guarding the base. In that position was there much risk of attack or snipers, or mortar barrages? We did have sapper attacks. They would try to do different things, but not much, and when they tried that base was setup to where it could take on a pretty good attack and fend it off. 53:01 Of course we were the first line of resistance, but there were more lines behind us. Interviewer: So it was not an easy place to infiltrate or sabotage, or anything else like that? If they tried to sneak through they could get through, but We had some of that happen where they got into it with explosives and stuff. Interviewer: Were they able to do any damage that way, or did they get caught? There was minimal damage and then normally they were destroyed. Interviewer: Was this an area where they were doing a lot of tunneling and so forth and did they have a lot of stuff underground or anything like that? No, this was—the water table there was with the ocean, so tunneling would be out of the question. Interviewer: They couldn’t really do that, so it was going to be more secure than some other places inland, as far as that stuff went. Did you see much of the troops that were not American, Australians, or Koreans, or whatever? Did you have any contact with them while you were working at this base? 54:02 26 �At the Force Logistics Command, the Australian guys, you know, they wore like a cowboy hat, so you could kind of pick them out, you know, their type of jungle hat and they were funny guys, you know, they talked funny and when you tried to talk to them they were just goofy, but no, I never became friends with anybody there. Interviewer: What impression did you have of the South Vietnamese military when you saw them here and there? They were really good, but they were really good when they had the Americans' support. We worked out with them; quite often they would be in operations and different things with us. Interviewer: Did you have the impression that their soldiers were properly trained and disciplined and that kind of thing? 55:00 Yeah, they had a different manner to them, like guys would hold each other’s hands and stuff, which we didn’t do and they weren’t very big guys, you know, so that always made you think they were inferior, but they were pretty tough individuals. Interviewer: Some of the ones you saw were Marines and so forth, and people who probably did have a little bit more training and that sort of thing. Yeah Interviewer: As far as you could tell, how did the civilian population view you guys, especially when you were kind of away from the combat zones? Away from the combat zones? Interviewer: Yeah, or when you were--it was one thing to be in those villages when you were doing a sweep and so forth and there were North Vietnamese around, and 27 �in other cases there probably weren’t many if you were closer to the cities or the base, or whatever. In general, what sort of impression did you have of the civilians? They liked us, they really liked us, you know, but maybe they liked the enemy too, but they seemed to like us. 56: 07 Interviewer: Did you have them working on the bases and things like that and doing stuff for you? Oh yeah, they did all the—at Force Logistics Command they did your laundry and they did the haircuts, they didn’t let them do everything, but they let them do a lot of different things on the base. They were trustworthy people and they were hard working people. Interviewer: Now, in general it was sort of understood here the Americans were on their way out, at least, about the time you’re leaving, and that more things were going to be turned over to the Vietnamese? Yeah, they turned—well when we would leave the army would come in. Like with the 7th Marines I think it was the Americal that was moved in. 57:05 With the 5th Marines I think it was the 101st Airborne Division that moved into the areas, but then they also had South Vietnamese soldiers and there were a lot of South Vietnamese units, so we did a lot of different things. We didn’t really pal with them and they were more or less a separate unit, but they took casualties, and did their thing. Interviewer: Did you get to go into Saigon or anything like that, or did you mostly stay at the place where you were based? Just the places I was based, and because I moved around I never got an R&R until I got to Force Logistics Command. Then I was supposed to leave country in April, April 24th was my getting out date. 58:06 28 �Interviewer: Did you ever get an R&R in Vietnam? Yeah, and I went to Bangkok Thailand and that was like on March 15th, and when I came back I had orders to go home. Interviewer: That’s not bad Yeah, that was Nixon’s one month early out and it made my day. Interviewer: Now, what was there to do in Bangkok? What would people go there for? Just for rest and relaxation Interviewer: It was a place where they weren’t going to shoot at you and you could stray in air conditioned hotels and that kind of thing? Yeah Interviewer: All right, are there particular incidents, or events, things that happened to you, while you were in Vietnam, that tend to come back to you that you haven’t mentioned here yet? 59:00 I got promoted with a combat promotion. Interviewer: Does that mean you’re replacing somebody else who got hit, or just because did well, so you move up? Yeah Interviewer: Now, did you get any special medals, or awards beyond that, or was that all the recognition you got? Basically, that’s probably the most proud thing. Interviewer: Were there any moments when you were out in the field, and that kind of thing, when you began to wonder if this was going to be it and maybe you weren’t 29 �going to come back, or anything like that, or were you able to maintain a more positive attitude and not have to worry about it? I think when I was first there that was a wonder. 60:00 I think that I didn’t want to come back without an arm, or something, and the rest of the stuff didn’t scare you too much. I mean, as far as—it wasn’t something to think about, because there was enough work to do and we worked hard. Interviewer: Now, did you ever get to the point where you were so tired that it was hard to do what you were supposed to do? Yeah, I was medevaced to Da Nang for what was called fever of unknown origin, and I believe it was exhaustion. You couldn’t get your water and your food and everything and then something just—one of your organs says, “You’ve had enough buddy”. 1:08 Interviewer: You talked about the physical fatigue and so forth, and being out there, at a certain point, your body just kind of told you to stop. How far into your tour did that happen and you had to get medevaced out of there? I would say about two months. Interviewer: So, relatively early at that point. Was that, sort of, right after that forty days out there in the jungle? Yeah, it was after that and we were back in the field, and that could have been, you know, like depression too, and I mean; now you’re right back. Interviewer: To go out and do it again. Yeah, but our next one wasn’t—you know, we were out there, maybe, fifteen days and they were back again. 2:06 30 �Interviewer: How long do you have to spend in the hospital, or whatever, when they flew you out? I was there for two days. They gave you some saline solution and vitamins and fresh fruit, orange juice and that type of thing, and fed you real good and got to eat some cooked food and different things like that. Interviewer: Now, were you ever injured in combat? Yeah, I was injured. I was injured one night with what they call a pacifier. When a unit’s in trouble they bring in other troops. 3:01 We were in a double wing helicopter and we took ground fire. They dropped the chopper down and yelled to get out, but we were too high off the ground and I dislocated my hip and got cut real deep, and when I was lying there I thought I was shot, because there was blood running down towards this area of my body and it was quite a night. Interviewer: Did they put you back on the helicopter and send you out, or did you have to wait and sty down there on the ground? We were down there and the next morning the guys that didn’t get hurt came back for us guys that were hurt, and once the daylight was there we could see what we had to do, and I was back up and around then. 4:02 Interviewer: So, you’re dislocated hip, were they able to put it back in position and you could walk? Yeah, that was done, and I got it back in position before the night was done by rolling around, because I was trying to find out where the exit and entrance was on my wound and it wasn’t a gunshot, it was done by a rifle sight, scrape. It caught the side pack and scraped up and flipped me. It was another guy’s rifle. 31 �Interviewer: Now, you’ve gone through your story, you have some R&R time in Bangkok and you come back and you get your orders telling you that you’re going to ship out. Now, did you have to stay around longer and just expand, before you actually left, or did you leave pretty quickly after that? Well actually, when I got my orders, they were going to ship me home by boat. 5:04 So, I had to report to Da Nang, so they threw me onto a truck and took me into Da Nang there and they said we got to have you loading boats and getting things and doing things ready for the troop carrier. I was down there and the officer that was in charge of everything said, “You don’t have enough time to go home by boat, so you’re going to work here for a few days and then we’re going to fly you out of here”. Interviewer: You don’t have enough time. In other words you’d still be on the boat when your enlistment was up? Yeah, a thirty day cut and I’d have still been on the boat. 6:00 So, I worked there for a couple days and they got me a flight to Okinawa and then I dot to spend—I didn’t get to spend, actually, I had to spend a few days there before I could get a flight back to the United States, but Okinawa was great. They had a twenty-four hour kitchen, all the food you could eat. Eggs, hamburgers, and that was a good—I ate a lot, but I was pretty light at that time too. Interviewer: Then do you go back to the states and decommission someplace, or muster out? Yeah, we landed in San Bernardino, which is out north of Camp Pendleton. Then they brought us in and they—some of them were being transferred to other units, you know, 32 �that still had time to go, and some were getting out, and then they put us in a barracks there, the guys that were getting out. 7:05 Interviewer: How long was it before you got to go home? Well, I think I landed on the twenty third of March, I landed in California, and the morning of the twenty fifth, I was out. Interviewer: Now, were you still committed to the Reserves after that? I could have joined it, but getting out, I turned my paperwork in to the Reserve unit, that I was home and what my location was, but basically I was done. Interviewer: Now, when you got back, what sort of a reception did you get when you got home? My family members, you know, they all came over to see me and stuff. Interviewer: Once you were back, what did you do? 8:00 did you go and find a job, or what did you do next? Well, I worked for Dexter Lock just prior to leaving, and so that was one of the places I expected to go back and go to work for, but at that time they could give you a part time job, or any type of a job, to fill their obligations and they were very slow at that time, so they wanted me to work two days a week, or something. It was panning out that I could draw unemployment for a month, or something and it would be more than I’d be making there and driving into work and I didn’t have a vehicle, or anything, yet and I was using my folks' vehicles to get around. 9:00 Then overlooking everything, I went to work for my dad. Interviewer: So, you’re installing carpets and selling carpet, or whatever? That’s how I started, was installing carpet. 33 �Interviewer: Then did you stay in the family business at that point, and that’s kind of what you’ve done, or did you switch to other things later on? Well, I worked for my dad for about a year and they got slow, and I went to work for a company called Chicago Bridge and Iron out of Chicago, and I worked for them—I was on my second season when they went on strike, that was a union shop, and they ended up going out of business. Then I worked for Gerry Cook at Cook’s Wrecking and Cannon Wrecking out of Dorr. I worked for them for a year and he went down in an airplane crash. 10:00 Then they stopped that company and then I did odds and ends and ended up back working for my dad again when things picked up. Then I worked for him from 1975, or so, until 1985 and then he sold his business and everything and then I got my builder's license and I’ve been doing that ever since. Interviewer: Did you have people ask you things about being in Vietnam, or did people just not know? Did you talk much about it at all, or just kind of went about your business? I didn’t and then all of a sudden lately, in the last few years, I’ve been talking more and more. I think it’s because they’re bringing back pride in our military and stuff. Back in the 1970’s it was not popular to be in the military. 11:07 Interviewer: Did you, sir, see much evidence of anti-military sentiment, or things like that toward you at all, or was it just something you were aware of in the media and that kind of thing? Well, the media, probably, instigated a lot of that stuff, but there were groups in California that didn’t like the military, and they were at the airports and different things. I never got spot on, but I heard that some of the guys did. That was kind of a letdown, 34 �because inside you’re so proud after something like that, you know, after doing all that work. Interviewer: You’re doing it for your country and then to get that kind of a reception on the other end. 12:00 Did you find that when you heard stuff about “nam” and people talking about Vietnam veterans and that sort of stuff, did you have the sense that people had the story wrong, or didn’t get it, or whatever, or did you see stuff that seemed fairly accurate as far as you could tell? I think like if you had duty like down towards the big cities like Saigon, or maybe right into Da Nang, or something, there probably was a lot of dope and I think the majority of the servicemen over there never. You know—first of all you didn’t carry around money, because it was always in the bank and you didn’t need money. If you bought anything it would be a coke or a carton of cigarettes, or something like that, and no, we didn’t have any prevalent dope problems, but I can see where certain areas would. 13:06 Having an eight to four-thirty job in Da Nang could be a guy has a lot of different things going on for him, which I never was a part of any of that. Interviewer: You’re probably healthier for it too. Yeah, I think on the whole the drug abuse rate, or whatever, among service men in Vietnam was basically the same as it was with the general population. Certain things get emphasized in certain ways, or whatever, just by how it gets presented. For the most part, if you were out in the field, and that’s pretty consistently what the soldiers will say. If they were out there, people didn’t do that stuff, because it wasn’t safe and it didn’t make any sense. 35 �Yeah, you’re a close knit group whether you know each other really well or not, you’re still a close knit group. 14:00 You’re watching what everybody’s doing and what’s going on constantly, that’s your survival. Interviewer: To look back on the whole thing now, how do you think your time in the service wound up affecting you? Did it kind of change the way you viewed the world or dealt with people, or anything like that? You’ve been just kind of in Byron Center, or whatever, your whole life before that, and then you’re off in Vietnam. What sort of impact did that have on you? Well, I didn’t like it and that’s probably why I’ve always lived in Byron Center and came back where I was comfortable, but I got to see—I got to see the world that I’m never going to go back to and I’d just as soon stay right here close, and stay in this country at least. Interviewer: Well, I’m certainly glad that you made it back in one piece, and also glad that you took the time to come in and talk to me today. Thank you. 15:00 36 �37 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanSolkemaH Title A name given to the resource Van Solkema, Howard (Interview transcript and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Solkema, Howard Description An account of the resource Howard Van Solkema was born in Byron Center, Michigan, in 1950. He was drafted shortly after graduating from high school and served in the Marine Corps between 1969 and 1971. He trained as a machine gunner and joined the First Marine Division at Da Nang in 1969. When his original regiment was sent home, he was transferred to a different unit in the northern part of the country, and finally to a base camp toward the end of his tour. He saw a good deal of small unit action, but no large battles, and worked with Australian and Korean troops. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-10-21 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1c837064b68f25695f41f083c5784759.mp4 8ae8c1e3faa15e6b438664a3211d4933 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/268ecd674107b2f0cdea807557aa0f1c.pdf dd6fb2af6a1978093a24df73c136d378 PDF Text Text Robert Van Strien (29:00) (00:18) Background Information • Robert was born in Grand Rapids, MI and moved to Byron Center, MI when he was 10 • His dad was a cashier at Byron Center Bank • He graduated from Byron Center High School in 1945 • Robert joined the Navy with three of his friends after high school (1:42) Training • Robert went to Virginia for basic training in late September for 3 months • He got to go home for one week during training • Robert then went to the west coast and boarded a ship to Japan (4:18) Occupation of Japan • Robert was assigned to be a typist for a commander on the USS Columbus • The war was over and there was not much work to do • He was on a radar machine at one time and got to watch them plot out the ship’s route • Robert helped type part of the ship’s news letter • They went to Kobe, Japan where the Japanese had a submarine base and took about a dozen or two subs out to sea and blew them up • He got assigned to do work on the USS Chicago which had more than 3 thousand people on board (11:45) Leave • Robert and other men had time on leave to go to Tokyo and go shopping • He would trade his cigarettes for things because he didn’t smoke • Robert went to Nagasaki to see where the Atom Bomb had been dropped • A lot of guys went to the bars • Prostitution was a problem and many of the men on the ships had STDs �(15:38) Impression of Japan • A lot of Japan was “bombed out flat” • The mountain sides were full of caves • He mostly ate on board the ship and didn’t eat Japanese food • Robert would visit friends on an Army base near by (20:30) Discharge • He went to the California and then to the Great Lakes Naval Academy where he was discharged in 1946 • Robert used the GI Bill to learn how to fly • He has owned 3 different planes • After his discharge he bought a truck and hauled milk for 25 years • He got a deferment from the Korean War because he was married and had a baby • Robert appreciates living in the United States after being in Japan • He belongs to the American Legion � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanStrienR Title A name given to the resource Van Strien, Robert (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Strien, Robert Description An account of the resource Robert Van Strien was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan and graduated from Byron Center High School in 1945. After high school he and three of his friends joined the Navy. After basic training he was assigned to be a typist for a Commander aboard the USS Columbus. He served after the war during the Occupation of Japan and typed part of the ships newsletter. After his discharge in 1946 he used his GI bill money to learn how to fly and has owned three planes. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Moore, Debra (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-08-15 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/631c14ed004bcf6d1b6d50e961aa4d1c.mp4 d09a99d2f237a1a80311bc2771935c02 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e2cd1524237be100deb91ce37c42437a.pdf 4a8ff27c8b186e1e753cb0bb94c8a60b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Korean War LeRoy Van Vleet Length of interview (42:49) (00:17) Family Background       Birthday May 11, 1931 (00:29) Grew up in Ottawa County, Michigan (00:39) Father worked for the WPA during the Great Depression. He also worked for Brass Company out of Grand Haven, Michigan and spent time as a class A machinist. (00:48) Completed 3 years of high school before enlisting in the Air Force in 1951. (01:27) He had family that were service members, his cousins were paratroopers and marines. He remembered the attack on Pearl Harbor. (02:12) Did odd jobs before his enlistment. (01:59) (02:52) Enlistment and Basic Training    Joined Air Force to avoid being drafted into another branch of service. (03:34) Lackland Air Force Base in Texas was the site of basic training and it was held for 14 weeks. (03:49) Problems adjusting to military discipline. (04:25) (5:08) First Active Duty Station  One month of service at Fort Belvoir in Virginia. Generally, assisted engineers with the building of pontoon bridges and attended plumbing school.(05:20) (07:15) Deployment to Alaska   After a 15 day furlough was sent to a disembarking and processing station at Camp Stoneman in California. (07:18) Troop ship took men to Elmendorf Air Force Base in Anchorage, Alaska and then were taken by plane to Thornborough Air Force Base. (08:00) (09:12) Cold Bay Alaska    Le Roy was stationed at Thornborough Air Force Base at the tip of the Aleutian Peninsula, which was also known as Cold Bay Alaska for roughly 13 months. The camp accommodations for the enlisted service members were crude. Cold and barren environment. �           Bears and wolves present in the area which required service members to arm themselves when outside. (10:00) Food supply and rations. (11:25) Major function of base was to refuel planes and tankers. (12:58) Duties included POL (patrol, oil, and liquids), guard duty, refueling planes and tanks, and taking care of the water supply. (13:18) Discussion of weather conditions which affected planes, runways, equipment storage and the type of clothing and gear utilized. (16:00) Received specific survival training for conditions in Alaska along with instructions to follow if base were attacked. (19:30) There were not many civilians present at the base; however hunters and trappers were in the area at times. (20:36) Comrades (23:00) Le Roy’s off-Time activities included reading, completing his high school education and numerous outdoor activities. (24:56) Major Events (27:00) o Submarine spotted in bay. (26:57) o Fire at Radar Installation. (27:10) Time at Cold Bay Ends (28:00) o Taken from Thornborough to Anchorage to Kodiak Naval Base and then to the mainland. (28:33) (29:00) Stationed at Eglin Air Force Base in Valparaiso, Florida           Eglin was a large base with a climate hangar and 10 auxiliary fields. Worked on planes doing aerial spraying of swampland. (30:15) Many civilians worked at Eglin. Le Roy participated in fueling and loading planes along with civilians. (30:37) Was part of an Emergency crew responsible for preparing base during events such as a hurricane. (31:00) Eglin was close to cities such as Panama City which allowed LeRoy to participate in social outings. (32:00) Integrated Base. (34:00) Test Hangar was 3 acres large and could recreate weather conditions from one extreme to another. (34:30) o Was used by all services. (35:00) Chemicals used for aerial spraying included DDT and Kerosene. The scope of their effects were not known at this time. (36:15) Le Roy received offers to reenlist but they did not appeal to him. (38:39) Le Roy was discharged in January 1955. (39:04) (39:13) Life After Service Went back to Michigan and worked in machining, construction, at a power plant, and on barges. (39:49) �Influence of service throughout life. (41:36) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanVleetL Title A name given to the resource Van Vleet, Leroy (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Van Vleet, Leroy Description An account of the resource LeRoy Van Vleet was born in Michigan in 1931. He enlisted in the Air Force in 1931, and received training as a specialist in fuels and lubricants. He was assigned to a refueling base in the Aleutian Islands for thirteen months, and then spent the rest of his time in the service at Eglin Air Force Base in Florida. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-12-15 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives