887 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/997ead3e21c06974f07f8c2ef14105b8.jpg 98d96e2edc2840922eda23989208e2e2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SmithGeoffrey_Photo04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Smith, Geoffrey Description An account of the resource Geoffrey Smith, Director of Continuing Education Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College administrators Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/beb15f2a3ea86f3692dca916841d7f04.mp4 85b0b423a8bacf79f8550ea4701b3aa1 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/25fd3afab44808ba10fa281c11b4785c.pdf 5c464687ffaaddf3f944a132b1e140b0 PDF Text Text George Smith (16:36) (00:10) Background Information • George was born on April 28, 1922 in Coopersville, Michigan • His parents farmed • He went to South Evergreen School through 8th grade • George stopped going to school to help on the farm and was drafted into the Army in 1942 when he was 20 years old (2:10) Training • George trained at Fort Benning, Georgia • They hiked, shot guns, and shot artillery • He was assigned to 105th Artillery Division (Battalion?) • George went through maneuvers in Tennessee in the summer of 1943 • He then went to Camp Gordon, Georgia (3:45) Deployment • He left from New York and spent about two weeks at sea • George got seasick on the way over • They landed in France and stayed there for about a month • He moved up to a Corporal and was a Gunner • Their job was to support the infantry with artillery • When they first landed they lived in tents and then slept in their tanks • They pulled off the front lines in Germany to go help at Bastogne, Belgium because the Germans were pushing through and taking the town • His unit was set up outside of the city (7:45) Wounded • They were hit with a mortar and one of the men was killed while three of them were injured �• George was hit in the leg • He was brought to a makeshift hospital but it was full so they took him down the street to a house • During the night the Germans bombed the town • The house he was staying in had all of the windows blown out • The hospital that he had been diverted from received a direct hit, killing everyone except one nurse • George was then taken to horse arena that had been converted to a hospital and everyone got gas gangrene • He lost his left leg below the knee and his big toe on his right foot • George only saw elderly civilians still living in the towns • He ended up in England and then was flown to Glasgow, Scotland • George took a ship called the Queen Mary to New York • He received a Purple Heart, a Sharpshooter’s Badge, a WWII victory medal and a Presidential Citation • He didn’t really know what was going on with the war while he was overseas • The Battle of the Bulge was a bad experience with 80,000 Allied deaths (12:17) Back Home • George was sent to a hospital in Texas where he spent 13 months • When he returned home he worked at a shop, but was laid off • He got a job with the Post Office in Spring Lake, Michigan • George retired from the post office after 25 years • He thinks Saving Private Ryan was a good depiction of WWII • George also thinks people should go into the Military for 2 years • He didn’t regret going into the Military and enjoyed the experience � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SmithG Title A name given to the resource Smith, George (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, George Description An account of the resource George Smith was born in Coopersville, Michigan on April 28, 1922. George was drafted into the Army when he was 20 years old. He was assigned to the 105th Artillery and mostly trained in Georgia. George landed in France and moved into Germany where his job was to support the infantry with artillery. His unit was pulled off the front lines in Germany to help out in Bastone, Belgium where he was wounded by a mortar. George was put in a horse arena that was converted into a hospital and got gas gangrene. He lost his left leg and his big toe on his right foot. George was sent home and spent over a year at a hospital in Texas. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McCauslin, Kelly Spring Lake District Area Library (Spring Lake, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-05-21 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/53d6e32a248b7e8a9884fc4f1e9440b7.m4v 710fe2fb8c2154f3c611673a90bb5058 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dff524aad3ae2e0954db52e451b3ec72.pdf 9c9a51bef94866f5aa8b9501dfbaad90 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University All American Girls Professional Baseball League Veterans History Project Interviewee’s Name: Helen “Gig” Smith Length of Interview: (01:02:00) Transcribed by: Sean Duffie, March 1, 2010 Interviewer: We’re talking today with Helen Smith of Richmond, Virginia Gig Smith: Gig Interviewer: Everyone called you Gig, so, okay. She’s a veteran of the Women’s Army Corps from the Second World War, as well as a player for the All American Girls Professional Baseball League, and this interview is going to cover both of these, because both fall under the privy of the Library of Congress Veterens history project. The Interviewer is James Smither, of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Now, Gig, can you start by telling us a little bit about your own background, to begin with: where and when were you born? Gig Smith: I was born January the 5th, 1922, and I lived in Virginia, Richmond. I think I was interest in sports since the day I was born. Interviewer: Do you remember how early you started playing baseball, or softball? Gig Smith: Yes, when I was thirteen. And I played for Lucky Strike. (1:00) They didn’t know when I was playing, they didn’t know how old I was, and when they found out how old I was, they let me go. Then I went joined another team. Interviewer: You said you were playing for Lucky Strike, the cigarette brand. Now, did the tobacco companies sponsor teams? Gig Smith: Well, they sponsored their own players, not outsiders Interviewer: Now how did you get to be on one of those teams? Gig Smith: Well, everybody went to the playground in those days, and that’s where it really started. Interviewer: Were you playing baseball or were you playing softball? Gig Smith: Softball, fast pitch. �Interviewer: Okay, and fast pitch softball, was that overhand or underhand? Gig Smith: Under. A little bit of side arm. Interviewer: Now, what position did you normally play? Gig Smith: 3rd base Interviewer: How good was your throwing arm? Gig Smith: Pretty good. Interviewer: Now, could you hit well? (2:00) Gig Smith: Yes, I was fourth, always fourth hitter. Interviewer: Let’s back up a little bit here. Tell me, what did your family do for a living in those days? Gig Smith: My mother was a nurse before she became married, and my father worked for the city, and he was a CPA. He worked at city hall. Interviewer: That sounds like a fairly secure job, so he could keep that during that depression? Gig Smith: Mmhmm. He helped to support other people in the family, when they lost their jobs. We doubled up., which everybody did in those days. Interviewer: Did you finish high school? Gig Smith: Yes, and I received the athletic trophy, Most Athletic, when I graduated. That was a graduating class of over 500, so that was guess that was pretty good. (3:00) Interviewer: So what other sports did you play besides softball? Gig Smith: Everything that they let me get into. I majored in four sports in high school Interviewer: And what were the other sports? Gig Smith: Track, tennis, field hockey and basketball Interviewer: These days, girls have a lot of opportunities for sports, but you were doing pretty much what was available to you at the time. �Gig Smith: That was everything that was there. Nowadays they concentrate on one sport. I did them all. Interviewer: Well, how were you able to fit all of them in? Gig Smith: Well, they were after school. Interviewer: They had them on different days? Gig Smith: And different seasons Interviewer: In what year did you graduate from high school? Gig Smith: 1940. (4:00) Interviewer: Then what did you do once you finished school? Gig Smith: I worked for a photo finishing place until I heard that Pearl Harbor announced on the radio. Then I went back to the kitchen where my mother was, and I said, they bombed Pearl Harbor. And my brother was already in the navy. And I said I wished that they had something for women to do. I’d love to go in. And two months after that, they started the auxiliary corps, and two months after that, it became the army. Interviewer: Did you remember when you first heard about the auxiliary corps? Gig Smith: Well, that was army; all I knew was the branches of service… Interviewer: Was it advertised or announced in the news that they were recruiting women? Gig Smith: Oh, yeah. Interviewer: How did the recruiting process work? Where did you go to sign up? Gig Smith: I went to the Marines first, and they didn’t want any women in the marines, but they had to take them. (5:00) The fellow at the recruiting station was very rude-- he kept his head down and wrote-- and I stood there waiting. It seems like a half hour but it couldn’t have been more than a few minutes. Then he said, what do you want? And that threw me back. And I said, what do you mean what do I want? I’d like to know a little bit about the Marines. He said-- still writing and still not looking up-- what do you want to know about the Marines? And all I know is I wanted to get out of there. I don’t remember what was said after that, and I could hardly wait to get out of there, and I walked down those steps and down about 8 blocks to the Army recruiting station. The fellow was totally different. He �was opposite of the rough old marine that didn’t look immaculate in his dress, (6:00) and this was a young black fellow that stood up and introduced himself and put his hand out when he introduced himself, and he said, “What can I help you with?” And I said, “I’d like to know a little bit about the Army.” And he said, “Have a seat and we’ll see what we can do.” And I asked… I wanted to know if there’s any way of getting any type of art work in the service. And he said, well, I’d say you’d have about 98 chances out of 100 you won’t get it because there’s very little being done, and I thought, he’s very polite and he’s honest, and if this is the way they ought to treat me, I’ll join. So I went home that night, and my brother was already in the navy and my sister was with her husband—he was stationed in New York. (7:00) I told my family, my mother wasn’t very well at that time, but I took a chance and I said I joined the army today— not having joined it—just to see what their reaction was going to be. And there was dead silence and I said uh-oh, I sunk. Finally my father said, well how do you know you’re going to like it? I said, I don’t know, but that’s the chance I’ll have to take. And that’s all that was said, so the next day I went back and signed up Interviewer: When you walked into that army recruiting office, and there was a black soldier there, were you surprised to see him there? Gig Smith: No. Interviewer: Because this is still the era of segregation, and the army was segregated. Gig Smith: Well, I’ve always been different in my ideas, and I was taught to handle things like that differently by my family, thank goodness. (8:00) Interviewer: At this point, the army itself was still segregated so they don’t desegregate… Gig Smith: Well, I didn’t know. Interviewer: And it was perfectly normal to you when you walked in and he behaved like a good person? Gig Smith: Extremely polite and very immaculate in his dress, totally different from the marine. Interviewer: The Marine quite likely was somebody they pulled off from some other duty some place and just stuck him there. So when you go back to sign up then, what’s the process? �Gig Smith: I don’t know; that’s a little blurry. I just signed up and they told me when I’d be leaving. There were street cars in those days, and I remember driving to the railroad station. (9:00) Interviewer: Where did they send you for training? Gig Smith: Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia Interviewer: And where in Georgia was Fort Oglethorpe? Gig Smith: It’s in the northern part. Interviewer: And what kind of facility was it? What did it look like? Gig Smith: Normal army barracks, wooden, nothing to brag about. We had stoves that you had to stoke with the coal. It was rough, but I liked it. Interviewer: About how many women were in the group you were training with? Gig Smith: I would say probably fifty to one hundred. I don’t remember. Interviewer: What sort of people did they have training you or supervising you? Gig Smith: We had officers and then we had noncommissioned officers that handled us. Interviewer: Were these women or men? (10:00) Gig Smith: Women Interviewer: Did you have the impression that some of these women had been in the army a while, or were they all pretty new? Gig Smith: Well, we were all pretty new in those days. Interviewer: What kind of training did they actually give you? Did they have you marching around? Gig Smith: Absolutely. PT every morning. Physical training. And when we got to hours after my basic training, I was sent to Headquarters Company on the fort. I was part of the headquarters company, and they had various places where we went out to do our jobs. I was assigned to publications, and I got art work. So, that was very unusual, because he told me I probably wouldn’t. (11:00) We made all the training aids, and we illustrated the post newspaper, made illustrations. Publications was just one of the services the Headquarters Company serviced. �Interviewer: You had mentioned this before, where did your interest in art come from? Gig Smith: I just always drew. I don’t know. Just like the sports. Interviewer: So you‘d always done that. Had you taken art classes in high school? Gig Smith: (12:00) And after school. I didn’t think there was a chance for me to go to college, because in those days, the boys always got the first chance to go, and I knew I wouldn’t go. So I played in school, I really did, I played everything. Art was everything to me, but once I got out of army, and had a chance to go, then my grades were totally different, and I had excellent grades then. Interviewer: Did you just do drawing or did you do painting? Gig Smith: Everything. Ceramics. Everything. Anything I could get my hands on. Interviewer: Tell me a little bit more about the training part and life on the base here. You mentioned you did physical training. Did you have to learn army discipline and following the rules? Gig Smith: Oh yeah. When I was finally settled in the Headquarters Company, every six weeks had physical training that they tested you on, and if you got over a certain score, you were exempt for the next six weeks. I got the high score. (13:00) So they put me in charge of getting up in the morning to train those ones that couldn’t even do a situp. So the next six week, I didn’t get the high score, and I was out of there. Interviewer: Was that by design? Gig Smith: Yes! Who wants to get up in the morning to train people who couldn’t do anything? Interviewer: At this base where you were, were there a lot of male soldiers training too? Gig Smith: We had a company of male soldiers there, but these were for various jobs on the post, and we worked with some of them, but mostly we had women. Interviewer: (14:00) What kind of rules did they have governing contact with male soldiers, or anything else like that? To what extent did they keep you separate? �Gig Smith: Well, they were stationed in a different part of the fort, and I really don’t know where they were, but they came to work. They worked in Publications, a couple of them, various jobs. Interviewer: And did you have any supervisory responsibilities? Did you tell anyone else what to do? Gig Smith: No, not at that time. Interviewer: How long did you stay at that? Gig Smith: Only for the duration of the war. All the transfers were frozen. Everyone wanted to out of Fort Oglethorpe. (15:00) And the only people who could get you out of there was the Pentagon, which was the headquarters company for the war. And I don’t know how I was chosen, but I was requisitioned to go to the Pentagon. I was with all nice people, with cooks and bakers, they’d have had me washing pots and pans the rest of my life. Interviewer: When did they send you up to the Pentagon? Gig Smith: About half way through. Before I left, I went from Publications, over to cadre. Cadre runs the headquarters company. I was in cadre for a little while, that was when they called me to the Pentagon. I had to sit outside for a week while they did a three-way clearance. (16:00) I don’t have past that – because I’m joking – but they had to come to Richmond and interview a lot of people before they let you into the office. But that was wonderful, I was with a great great bunch of people there. We had about 200 people in that office, that were specialists in everything Japanese. They were specialists. I don’t’ know how I got there. Interviewer: What duties did you have there? Gig Smith: We had people on islands that the Japanese didn’t know about, and if the Japanese had known about them, they would have of course beheaded them. (17:00) But they intercepted their codes, Jap codes, as the ships went by. They sent them to our department. Now, I did not do the decoding, but it was within our department. It was all secret. Everything that they sent us – little pieces of paper with information on it, where the ships were, what they were carrying, what the weight of the ship was – they sent to us to plot on these maps, and we determined which ones would be bombed, which would help to shorten the war. Actually, we were as close to the war as you could get for not being there.(18:00) It was fascinating. Interviewer: What kind of work did you do for them in that, if you’re not doing the decrypting? �Gig Smith: We were taking the ones that they had decoded, and we plotted them out on the maps. We had special cards – everything’s different today, such an advancement in technology – and we took what was on those cards, and we plotted them on the maps and we had special couriers to fly it over. And it had to be done as it came in, it was very fast, because these ships were moving. Sometimes we’d have to work all night to get them out. Interviewer: Where were you living while you were working at the Pentagon? Gig Smith: We lived at Fort Myer. (19:00) We walked every day in a tunnel under the highway to the Pentagon. We were not very well liked, because they made special barracks for us. They were cinder block, and we had these dryers that you’d pull out. We had everything. We lived 4 to a cubicle and not in the barracks like the other girls did. Everybody in the barracks that we lived in knew that you had to be quiet because there were people there, you know when you worked all night you had to sleep all day or part of it, so they did not like us. Also, we were exempt from doing KP duty, and they did not like us at all. Interviewer: When you say they, who are you referring to? Gig Smith: The other soldiers. Interviewer: Were they male soldiers or were they women? Gig Smith: (20:00) Women, strictly women. Interviewer: So there were a lot of other WACs basically on the base, but only certain of you had the special assignment over at the Pentagon. Gig Smith: Yes. Interviewer: The women you were working with, what kind of backgrounds did they have? Gig Smith: Practically all of them had college educations but me. And that’s why I don’t know how I got there. Interviewer: When you were working with the maps, were there situations where your abilities as an artist were helpful to you somehow? Gig Smith: Yes, in plotting them, and things like that. Interviewer: That may well have a lot to do with it. They look for specialized skills and you had some. While you were working there, did you meet any �high-ranking people or any important ones? Did they come through and check up on you? Gig Smith: (21:00) At the Pentagon? I’ll tell you a funny story. I’ve told it so many times, you’ll probably see it in other places. I had a friend that worked in General Marshall’s office. And she said – everything was military and sort of sterile – in her office, she had a cute little waiting room there with a sofa and a lamp and a chair and all kinds of little feminine touches. She said, why don’t you come to see my office some time, if you want to see something that’s not military? And I said, okay, when I have the chance I’ll go. So one day I went around there and all of a sudden – well, she was leaning up against a… I don’t know… I was sitting on the sofa facing a door – this loud buzzer went off and she jumped to attention at that door and I didn’t know what was going on. (22:00) All of a sudden, I knew that was the secretary of war, Henry Stimson, and I could not move, because you’re supposed to stand at attention when any officer comes into the room. I could not move, so Stimson was a very small man, and he had a colonel that looked like he would hit the ceiling… and I still couldn’t move. So, Mr. Stimson said How do you do? as he passed. I know I said how do you do. But as they went around the door, the big tall colonel came back in, and I knew he was after me. I jumped to attention. (23:00) He said, “Sergeant, don’t you know that when the Secretary of War is in the room, you’re supposed to stand at attention?” “Yes sir, but I didn’t know he was behind that door.” She should have told me, she was very embarrassed about it because she could have warned me. But that was an experience I’ll never get over. It’s funny now, but it wasn’t funny then. He said just see that it doesn’t happen again. And I thought to myself, man, you’re not ever going to get into this office ever again. He had gone in to see General Marshall and I didn't know anybody was in there, she didn't warn me. Interviewer: While you were living at Fort Myer and were working at the Pentagon, did you get a chance to go into Washington itself? (24:00) Gig Smith: We went in every once in a while, but we didn’t go regularly. Interviewer: Did you have any spare time, and if you did, how did you spend it? Gig Smith: Sports: basketball, softball. I played on a team down in Oglethorpe that went to a state tournament. I had two bases loaded and a home run. Interviewer: Two grand slams Gig Smith: Yeah, grand slam, I tried to think of it. �Interviewer: I guess, when we look ahead to the Women’s baseball league, they didn’t hit necessarily a lot of home runs. Gig Smith: Well, the last three years of my playing Richmond, I had an average of hitting a home run a game. Interviewer: Was it easier to hit home runs in softball than it was going to be in baseball? (25:00) Gig Smith: Well, I didn’t get far enough into baseball to know the difference. Interviewer: Let’s go back to Washington. Did the Pentagon have women’s teams that you could play on? Gig Smith: Yeah Interviewer: And who would they play against? Gig Smith: The other forts, or… I’m not thinking. Interviewer: The other bases and other units? Gig Smith: Yeah Interviewer: Did you travel around to play those games? Gig Smith: Occasionally but it was all in the Washington area Interviewer: When working at the pentagon, there’s going to be men working along with women. (26:00) Gig Smith: Right Interviewer: What kind of relationship was there in the offices? How did the men treat the women? Gig Smith: I was with officers and people that were skilled, so they were a little bit different. We were treated with respect. Interviewer: Were there situations outside of the office or off of the base where people treated women in the army with a little less respect? Gig Smith: I think so. I have no idea what it’s like today… I don’t know, I can’t compare the two. �Interviewer: Were there ways that you could recognize that people were a little uncomfortable with you? Gig Smith: Yes, well, that’s human nature. (27:00) Interviewer: Now when you went off the base, would you stay in uniform? Gig Smith: Yes, always. Interviewer: I guess in Washington there’d be a lot of women in uniform. Gig Smith: Oh yeah. It would be so overcrowded. Where the mall is now, they had barracks. It was a real busy place in those days. Interviewer: Now, are there particular events or things that happened while you were working in Washington that stand out in your memory? Gig Smith: Well, I remember when Roosevelt died. We were shocked, I was getting to go home for the weekend – because Richmond was so close – and then I remember when Drew Pearson of the Washington Post broke it, that we had broken the Jap code, the office went berserk. (28:00) Because he should have been hung. He should have really been… but they never did any thing to him. Interviewer: When did that happen? Was that late in the war? Gig Smith: It was towards the end of the war, but you could have still used the Japanese code today if he had not put it in the post. He must have paid someone a pretty penny to get hat information, or somebody must have been drunk. Interviewer: Then, do you remember when the atomic bomb got announced? Gig Smith: I don’t remember the particulars. Interviewer: Of course, then there’s the announcement that the war itself is over and the Japanese surrender. Gig Smith: (29:00) I never had headaches, but they wanted some of us to go to Japan with the occupational forces. And I wanted to go very much, but I also wanted to go to college. So I kept the headache for a week trying to decide which I wanted to do most. And as soon as I decided that maybe I would feel too old when I got back, the headache went away. Interviewer: So you decided that you were not going to go then �Gig Smith: No, I decided to go to college, going to art school Interviewer: Is that the first thing you did after you left the army? Gig Smith: I went straight to New York. Interviewer: What school did you attend there? Gig Smith: I went to Pratt until… I was trying to live on 79 dollars a month, and it was pretty rough, so I called the scout that had offered me the contract that I had turned down to go into the service, to see if I could still get that contract. (30:00) And that weekend, they had me flying from New York to Chicago to meet the president of the company of the association. Interviewer: The president of the association, Mr. Wrigley himself? Gig Smith: No, it was… oh dear, I know it as well as I do my name. I don’t remember. Interviewer: He was the president of the league? Gig Smith: No, I didn’t meet Mr. Wrigley, he was president of the league. Interviewer: When did you first get approached about playing professional baseball? Gig Smith: Before I went into the army, and I said no, I’m going into the service. (31:00) Because everybody was doing something – it was a different war – everybody was collecting things, scrap metal, everybody was doing something, and I wanted to go in too. Interviewer: Now, the league itself doesn’t get started until the war is going along-Gig Smith: Yeah Interviewer: --pretty well. If you’re joining the army in 1942, did maybe did the league contact you not long after you joined? Gig Smith: No, they contacted me before I went in, and I turned that down. Then, after I got out and needed the money – at least in the summertime -- that’s when I joined. But then my mother became ill and my father wrote me a very sweet letter, asking me to consider if I would come home to help him. (32:00) So I had to transfer from Pratt to what’s now DCU, And I had to stop playing softball, too, and baseball. �Interviewer: Let’s see, go back then to your baseball story. You go out to Chicago, did they try you out? What happened when you got to Chicago? Gig Smith: No, the scouts that they sent around, they knew what you were capable of and those things, and I was later, in the Fast Pitch Softball Hall of Fame in Virginia. I was one of the first people to go in. And we had a team from Virginia that went to the first national softball tournament. Interviewer: When was that? (33:00) Gig Smith: That was in Detroit, don’t ask me dates. I’m 87, please! (Laughter) Interviewer: Was that back when you were a high school player? Gig Smith: Yeah Interviewer: So you were pretty well known then. Gig Smith: Yeah. Interviewer: So they thought, okay, we’re going to go get her. So what team then did they assign you to? Gig Smith: Kenosha. The bus was waiting for me, because I had been in school, and the bus was sitting on the side of the road waiting for me. They were going to one of the teams they were going to play. Interviewer: Do you remember what it was like to first meet the people on the team and join the team? Gig Smith: I don’t know, I was just happy to be there. I don’t know, I don’t remember. I met people easily. Interviewer: (34:00) So you made friends quickly then? Gig Smith: Yeah Interviewer: Describe a little bit of what life was like in that first season. Gig Smith: Well, I was a rookie, so I was lucky to get in a game, but I got in a few. It was great, I thought it was great. Interviewer: Now, at the point when you joined, how much were they doing in terms of enforcing the rules for dress and conduct and all of those things? �Gig Smith: We had chaperones. We were supposed to look and act and conduct ourselves like ladies at all time, but play like men. So it was a pretty big chore for some of us. We could not drink, smoke in public. (35:00) We had to wear a dress or skirt at all times. And in those days, there were no nylon hose because everything was going to war, so it was pretty funny to look at those pictures now and see bobby socks in your shoes when you were in a dress. Interviewer: Do you remember any of the chaperones that you had? Gig Smith: They were wonderful; they were really great to us. But we played a lot of pranks. The movie was correct in some of the things that they said, like putting limburger cheese on the light, and when she came in – as the light got hot – when she came in the night, she went all over the place hunting for the smell. (36:00) Then we were passing around chocolates, and we gave an exlax to one of the chaperones Interviewer: Now none of this was your ideas was it? Gig Smith: Oh, no, you don’t think? I was so innocent. Interviewer: Were you older than a lot of the players on the team? Gig Smith: Oh yes, I was. Interviewer: But were they teaching things about how to play at their level? Gig Smith: Well, I was good enough to play at heir level, but the rules were different. You played off the base. They started us off with a smaller ball and to push the bases back a little bit, you know, until we could become accustomed to the length and the size of the ball (37:00) But I had a strange thing happen to me. There was a girl there the year before I got there that had the same name as I, and she played center field. I was always the third baseman. And when I went to spring training -- evidently Grand Rapids wanted a center fielder – they must have thought that I was that Helen Smith. I thought you were supposed to play where they asked you or wanted you play. So I played center field. Interviewer: That was your second season? Gig Smith: Yeah Interviewer: So, you played in Kenosha for one year, then you played with Grand Rapids for one year. Gig Smith: No… yeah, yeah. �Interviewer: What years were those? 47-48? Gig Smith: 46-47, I think. Interviewer: So right after the war, essentially. (38:00) The war ends in late enough in 1945, the baseball season is pretty well done, so the next year you come to play Gig Smith: Yeah, because I was in New York going to art school. Interviewer: And then, between the baseball seasons, then, you went back home to Virginia and you went back to art school. Gig Smith: Yes, I transferred Interviewer: Did the team accommodate your school schedule, or did the season start late enough that you didn’t have to miss school or miss games. Gig Smith: No, I had to stop doing both, stop playing ball. Interviewer: In the year that you first joined the league, you would have missed the spring training that year, right? Gig Smith: Yeah Interviewer: You were coming in after that. Now the next year, the year that you joined Grand Rapids, did you go to spring training that year? Gig Smith: Yeah, we were in Florida, and then they flew us to Cuba to put on exhibition games. Interviewer: What was that like? (39:00) Gig Smith: Cuba. I was happy to be home. Just leave it as that. It was rough down there. Interviewer: People didn’t follow quite the same rules as they did where you came from? Gig Smith: Well, we were only there to put on an exhibition game. I got awfully tired of the Cubans following us around, singing. I was hungry for American music. Interviewer: Did you play against Cuban teams while you were down there? Or did you play American teams? �Gig Smith: I’ve forgotten, I don’t remember. We probably played our own girls, I'd imagine. Interviewer: Now the league did recruit some Cuban players. Did you have any Cubans on the teams that you played for? Gig Smith: No Interviewer: (40:00) Do you remember how long they had you in Cuba? Was it like a week or a couple weeks? Gig Smith: In Cuba? Just a week, couple of days, a week. Bacardi opened up their bar. That was the longest bar I’d ever seen in my life. We had one of our leading pitchers was not a drinker, and I wanted to go to Sloppy Joe’s – I’d always heard about Sloppy Joe’s and I really wanted to go – and we were going there after we ate. They took us by Bacardi’s. And this leading pitcher, who was not a drinker, and she was so out of it, that somebody had to take her back, and I volunteered. (41:00) And I never saw Sloppy Joe’s. Interviewer: So what was Sloppy Joe’s Gig Smith: That was where Ernest Hemingway used to hang out. Interviewer: You said this woman was drinking, where were the Chaperones while that was all happening? Gig Smith: Well, you can sneak something in a Coke, and not know it, You know? In fact, I had my first drink when I was in basic training down at Oglethorpe. And they knew I did not drink, and that was a funny situation. Where we left the Non-com club, there was a long row of steps, and I was just as happy as a lark, not knowing that I was tight. I went to go down the steps, and my arm got caught on the rail and I slid all the way down. I went into the barracks, and everybody was asleep, and I would go through knocking on the double bunks and I would say “I’m drunk, I’m drunk.” (42:00) And the next day, they caught me good, because they came through banging on pans. But that was kind of a mean trick to play; you don't know how people are going to react. That was my first drink. Probably my last one in the army, too. Interviewer: So in the time you were living in Washington, you kind of resisted whatever offers there were to go have a drink or do this or do that. �Gig Smith: Yeah, well, we were a specialist field, and we did not do much going out, Because the work that we did was so directly associated with the war, that we didn’t do a lot of that. Interviewer: And you had to be on call and all of that? (43:00) Gig Smith: Yeah. Interviewer: Let’s go back to the spring training thing. What was the spring training in Florida like? Was training in Florida different from Cuba? Gig Smith: Well, we put on exhibition games in Cuba. In spring training in Florida, we had a lot of drills and things like that, and played different teams. Interviewer: One of the hallmarks of the league was that you played in skirts – and relatively short skirts at that. Did you have problems with the base running and fielding and things? Gig Smith: People that slid, they had horrible strawberries. It was ridiculous. But he wanted us to look like women. Interviewer: Did you do a lot of sliding, or did you just hit home runs? (44:00) Gig Smith: No, well, I didn’t hit any home runs there. If I was lucky to get in. Interviewer: So you didn’t play a lot in that first season? Gig Smith: No, not a lot. We had a girl – we were playing in Chicago – we had one of the leading center fielders, Pat [Kagel], and she slid into second base, and came up screaming. Her bone was sticking through the sock. I got more of a chance to play then. Interviewer: Was that when you were with Grand Rapids? Gig Smith: Grand Rapids. Interviewer: Did you get to play any third base with either team? Gig Smith: No, they didn’t know I was a third baseman. I thought you played where they wanted you to play. I caught in the army, because nobody was stupid enough to get back there (45:00) Interviewer: Which position did you prefer to play? Gig Smith: Third base, definitely. �Interviewer: Do you remember much about Kenosha or about Grand Rapids, the communities you were playing in? What were the fans like in those places? Gig Smith: The fans were great by the time I got there. I think the people that preceded me had a rough time in the beginning. But when they found out the caliber of ball that was being played… and I was amazed, because we had some fantastic players. Interviewer: Who were some of the best players that you played alongside? Gig Smith: I think Kamencheck was probably the best one. She was a first baseman and left-hander. She could do anything. (46:00) Dottie Schroeder played longer than anybody, but she was not the best hitter. She caught an unbelievable ball that was hit a line drive over second base, and I don’t know how she got to it, but she was fantastic. But Kamencheck was a fantastic first baseman. She caught a ball that was hit so hard, she just whirled around, and she ended up backwards when she caught that ball. I don’t' know how she caught it either. Those were the two things that I recall. Interviewer: Now when you were playing, are there particular either plays that you made or hits that you got? Gig Smith: No, I remember I hit a ground ball to Sophie Kurys. I was running to first base, and the hat slid down over my eyes. I had a time with that. Interviewer: (47:00) Did you hit the base? Gig Smith: I don’t know. All I remember is the hat sliding down and I couldn’t see a thing. I was trying to push it up and run faster. Interviewer: If it hadn’t been for your family situation back at home, would you have stayed in the league a little bit longer? Gig Smith: Yes, definitely. I would have stayed in art school, too. I mean, I would have finished at Pratt. Interviewer: Then, after your second season playing ball, you come back home to Virginia. Did you complete your degree down there? Gig Smith: Yes, at VCU. Then I taught for 31 years. Interviewer: Where were you teaching? (48:00) �Gig Smith: I was teaching at Richmond Public Schools. I taught all grades, the last eight years, I taught emotionally disturbed – not retarded – emotional cases. I had some funny experiences there. Interviewer: Could you tell us one of those? Gig Smith: Yes, I can tell you one of them I can tell you a couple of them. We had one fella that did not like to – this was in the shop class, because I taught art in shop – and he was working on a wooden project. He just did not want to sand it properly, and he wanted to stain it or put some shellac to finish it. He came to me – they had to come to be before they could the next step – and I kept saying, because he was lazy and didn’t want to do it, and he came back to me and he said, and this as after the third or fourth time, he said “Mrs. Smith, I don’t care, I’m going to pay for it.” (49:00) And I said, “Let me tell you something, Jesse. I’m a teacher that takes pride in my teaching. If you walk out that door with a project, it’s going to be done right." About three weeks later, or maybe a month later, a new student came into that class. He was trying to pull the same trick that Jesse pulled. I didn't know Jesse was behind me, and I said, “nope, it's not right." I could hear his voice pop in, and he said, "Man, let me tell you something, Ms. Smith takes pride in her teaching, and you’re not going to go walking through that door with a project unless it’s done right.” I had to cover my nose, I was laughing. I didn’t know if I’d have gotten through to him at all. I liked those emotionally disturbed, maybe it was because I was. (50:00) Interviewer: I think that, even today, we still often find that classes like that, where they can get hands on and do their own things, often students can learn that way, if they’re not doing the conventional way. But you must have been a pretty good teacher to get that kind of response. Gig Smith: I think I had more empathy for what they were going through. I had one little girl that came in – I taught shop and art both – one little girl came into the class. Tears were running down her eyes. She said, "I've just got to talk to you, I've just got to talk to you." I said, well, let me get the class started and we'll walk out in the hall." And she said, "my father kept us up with a gun, drunk, all night.” So I think I did more good not necessarily by teaching them art and shop, but I think I did more good in other ways. (51:00) I think I was more successful with them, because they’d come to me before they’d go to a counselor. Interviewer: So they must have trusted you, or you were the person that they could talk to. Gig Smith: Yeah, they knew that. And I had a little boy who was so sissy, it was just pitiful. And they were kidding him all the time because he couldn’t throw �a ball, or couldn’t throw like the boys threw. So one day, I asked him to bring a softball up after school, the first thing I said, was “just throw me the ball.” And he stepped on the wrong foot first, you know. Throwing right… and I said, no, change. And we stayed there fifteen, twenty minutes, until he could throw a ball. (52:00) And they didn’t kid him any more. But they were the types of things that I think were more meaningful to those kids than whether they could be a good artist or not. Interviewer: During the time when you were working there, did anybody know that you had been a professional ball player? Gig Smith: No, I didn’t dare tell anybody. When the movie came out, a friend of mine knew that I had played, and she called up the newspaper and didn’t tell me. And he called me and he said, I’d like for you to go and critique the movie with me. And the next day, there was a full spread in the newspaper with pictures and everything. I thought, oh dear Father, it is finally out. (53:00) I hadn’t told anybody because softball was not looked upon like tennis and golf, and yet it takes more strength to do those two, than it does for sometimes to play right field and wait for a ball to come to you. Interviewer: What did you think of the movie? Gig Smith: I thought it was funny, and I thought it also touched the human element. I thought it was really good. It was really good, I liked it. Interviewer: Were there parts of it that you thought were a little inaccurate or Hollywood-ish? Gig Smith: Oh, of course. Tom Hanks urinating for ten minutes? We would have thrown him out. Interviewer: What sort of managers did you have during the two years that you played? Gig Smith: (54:00) I had excellent managers. I had Johnny Rawlins – played for New York – and we had good managers, we really did. We had nice chaperones, we did. We were really restricted din what we could do. Interviewer: What kind of living accommodations did you have while you played? Gig Smith: Usually, we lived in somebody’s home. Interviewer: How did that work? Gig Smith: Well, I’m not going to tell you the first night I got there, because the next day, I asked to have a new roommate. I was with Al Hallet, who was one �of the leading pitchers at the time, and it was real good. She and Ruth Lessing, we used to chum around together. Interviewer: The people who were your best friends in these teams, were they some of the ones were older players closer to your age, or were some of them younger. (55:00) Gig Smith: I never thought about age, you know? Interviewer: Let’s go back to life afterward again. The movie comes out, and so forth. At what point do you start getting involved with the organization? Gig Smith: I went to the first reunion in Chicago and I’ve been associated with them ever since. That movie has opened up more doors me than you could imagine. I’ve been to the White House twice, they wanted somebody who had been in the service and also played in the league. They sent me to Hawaii to make speeches at the army bases there for equal opportunities. (56:00) They had a really nice program once a year for that type of thing, and I was guest of honor then. I didn't see much of Hawaii but I saw the army bases. Interviewer: At the time you were playing, did you have any sense that you were sort of making history or were doing something important? Gig Smith: No, no. All I knew was that we were keeping baseball alive for Mr.. Wrigley, because President Roosevelt had called him and said I'm afraid we're going to have to fold the men's league association because we need every man that we can get. He asked one of his assistants if we would dream up something to keep baseball alive, and he came back in a couple of days, and said, “why don’t you start a women’s league, and treat hem exactly the way you treat the men’s league and take them to Florida for spring training and fly them to Cuba to put on exhibition games, and let them come back up the east coasts all the way to their home teams just like the men’s?" (57:00) And that was what happened. But there was nothing equal in pay. We had to be on those hot old air-conditioned busses. We had some great players. We had one girl who pitched two perfect games, and when she wasn't pitching, she played third base, was married to the coach, and had a three-year-old son. Interviewer: That was Jean Fout. Gig Smith: Yeah. Interviewer: To what extent where you aware of where the league had come from or why they were doing it? (58:00) �Gig Smith: We knew why they were doing it. I’ll tell you something else that was interesting. When I went to the Pentagon -- it wouldn’t happen today -every enlisted man that came into that unit that we were working in at the Pentagon, was given a direct commission. They didn’t have to go to OCS. For every woman that came in there, she was given the privilege of going to OCS if she cared to go. That wouldn’t happen today. And I did not want to go. I turned it down when I came out of basic training, I could have gone then. I turned this one down because I was told that if I went to OCS – I was told by the people in the office – if I went there would be no chance of getting back. (59:00) I was with marvelous people. I was with people I admired and I respected and I was doing a terrific job, a job that really dealt directly with the war. That’s where I wanted to be, I didn’t want to leave, so I didn’t go. Interviewer: If you had been a man coming in, you would have been commissioned automatically? Gig Smith: Yeah. Automatically. No questions about it. Interviewer: As you look back on the whole thing now, how do you see what the significance of the league was? Gig Smith: Well, it’s opened up doors – unbelievable doors – for all of us I think. As I said, I’ve been to places I never would have gone before. (1:00:00) Interviewer: When you meet women athletes from later generations and so forth, what’s that like? Gig Smith: Awesome. What has happened for women in sports… Billie Jean King was just given a presidential honor for her job in passing Title IX, and I know for a fact -- I think she was given either a month or two months -she was ready to throw in the towel because she had been working for a couple of years on that, and all of a sudden they passed that. Thank goodness they did. You can give her full credit for that because she really put her career on the line and used her own money to do it. She’s to be admired. (1:01:00) Interviewer: And she’s someone who, in turn, admires your group and all the things you do. Gig Smith: I think so, I think so. She’s going to be our guest of honor, so I’m sure she does. �Interviewer: At this point, is there any important part of your story we’ve left out? Is there anything else you’d like to add here into the record before we close things out? Gig Smith: I’m just happy for the life I’ve had. Many times I thought it wasn’t going to work out, but everything’s worked out according to whatever divine… Interviewer: In general, what do you think the importance of sports – baseball and softball – what did that mean to you? How did that help you in your life, or what did you learn from the experience of playing? Gig Smith: You should have given me time to think that one through! (Laughter) (1:02:00) It has opened up so many doors, unbelievable doors, for me. The experience has been wonderful, and it’s still wonderful. I just wish I had about 20 more years to live. Interviewer: Well, I can tell you that you do have a wonderful story and you’ve done a wonderful job of telling it to us. Gig Smith: Thank you. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League was started by Philip Wrigley, owner of the Chicago Cubs, during World War II to fill the void left by the departure of most of the best male baseball players for military service. Players were recruited from across the country, and the league was successful enough to be able to continue on after the war. The league had teams based in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan, and operated between 1943 and 1954. The 1954 season ended with only the Fort Wayne, South Bend, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Rockford teams remaining. The League gave over 600 women athletes the opportunity to play professional baseball. Many of the players went on to successful careers, and the league itself provided an important precedent for later efforts to promote women's sports. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-58)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Sports for women World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Oral history Baseball players--Minnesota Baseball players--Indiana Baseball players--Wisconsin Baseball players--Michigan Baseball players--Illinois Baseball for women--United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-10-02 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58_HSmith Title A name given to the resource Smith, Helen "Gig" (Interview transcript and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, Helen Description An account of the resource Helen "Gig" Smith was born on January 5, 1922 in Richmond, Virginia. She began playing softball at the age of 13. She joined the Women's Army Corps after Pearl Harbor and later was attached on special assignment to the Pentagon to decrypt Japanese codes. In 1947, she joined the AAGPBL's Kenosha Comets and then in 1948 played for the Grand Rapids Chicks. During her time in the league she played the infield. In 1948, she left the league to pursue teaching art in Virginia. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Baseball for women--United States Baseball Sports for women World War, 1939-1945 Baseball players--players--Wisconsin Baseball players--Michigan Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-09-26 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-55)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a4751c1a6bd03092df6b6116e36f69ba.mp4 b6fb64df3d07912336e72f066051c0cc https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e12515709deec605b3a4764634835c83.pdf 7bb8d497ff99652569c43ebea599ff2d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Jason Smith (17:05) Overview of Service (00:30) • • • • • • • • • • Awards and various citations. (3:21) Operation Iraqi Freedom document and picture. (4:20) Promotion papers. (5:39) He had 2 close friends who died while serving in Iraq. One lived for 6 days in the field hospital, however due to the lack of proper medical care available in the field, he passed away. (6:29) Jason lived with his mom and his sister. His parents were divorced. He joined the military in a search to become a man. (8:53) He still has several mementos from his service. He uses them to remind himself not to take what he has for granted. (10:00) He interacted with the civilians often while serving n Iraq. He recalls seeing a man travel with a cart with car tires on it being pulled by a donkey. He also recalls children regularly begging for food. (11:27) After returning home from service he was angry for some time however he now tries to stay positive. (13:00) He believes that the service that the Army has done in Iraq was good for the people of Iraq. (13:30) Part of him wishes that a 2 year service in the military was mandatory. He believes the assistance and teaching of discipline the military provides is very useful. (15:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SmithJ0986V Title A name given to the resource Smith, Jason (Interview outline), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, Jason Description An account of the resource Jason Smith served in the U.S. Army during operation Iraqi Freedom in the early 2000s. He interacted often with civilians and believes that his service has lead him to appreciate what he has in his own life. He discusses losing close friends while serving. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dion, Sam (Interviewer), Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-02-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/922469bd979c484043ef9137350a490c.mp4 6156a49516f3a667803e166762c7471a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/415816136322dd182338fe7b6fdc92ca.pdf ead5fd3220373d916b4817aa2caecdbe PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran: Joe Smith Interviewed by James Smither Transcribed by Grace Balog Interviewer: We are talking today with Joe Smith of Annapolis, Maryland. And the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project. Alright, Joe, start us off on some background on yourself. And to begin with, what is your legal name? Veteran: My legal name is Joe. Not Joseph, Joe Oliver Smith. Interviewer: Alright, and where and when were you born? Veteran: I was born April 17th, 1946 in Topeka, Kansas. Interviewer: Alright. And now, did you stay there or did you move around? Veteran: No, I grew up as a service brat. I left Topeka when I was 1 month old. My father was in the—he began flying in the Army Air Corps in World War 2, based in England. He flew bomb runs over Germany. He came back you know and so where I start out in Topeka. On the way, I think we went through Fort Dix, New Jersey but we headed to post-war Germany. You know, so I am from about 1 year old to 3 years old in Wiesbaden, Germany. Interviewer: Okay. Did your father ever say much about what it was like to be based in Germany after having bombed it? Veteran: They talked—my parents talked a bit about…not so much the military aspect of the war but life in Germany. You know, living there. We had a German maid, we had a boxer pet for the �family. I remember hearing funny stories about making sure when they took the mare and the boxer for a walk that they didn’t let them out of their sight. It was a big deal, you know. Dogs on the loose would be grabbed pretty quickly. Interviewer: Okay. Grabbed pretty quickly for…lunch? Veteran: For who knows? Maybe for lunch. It’s hard to know, it was not good times there. (00:02:01) Interviewer: Okay, so what you’d still say, there’s still a lot of poverty there at that point before the economy recovers a little bit. So, you do that and then you basically, you kind of bounce around then to other Air Force bases? Veteran: Right. SAC wasn’t—didn’t exist when we came back. But we went from Germany to California. My sister was born in 1950 in California when we were at March Air Force Base. And then moved from there to Colorado Springs, Colorado. My father was an instructor there in the survival school for pilots. You know, if you crash in the Rockies, and that sort of thing. I started kindergarten there, I think in a year or so, and then we came back to Kansas. We were at Salina. At the time, it was Smoky Hill Air Force Base, subsequently it was renamed Schilling Air Force Base. We were there for 2 or 3 years I guess. Interviewer: Yeah, you’ve got 3 years here on your timeline. Yeah. Veteran: 3 years and from there we went to…Went to Westover Air Force Base, in western Massachusetts, out near Springfield. That should have been about the 4th through 6th grades. Interviewer: Yep. �Veteran: That was the beginning of the—well, actually, Salina was the beginning of the strategic air command, the SAC assignments. Interviewer: Okay. Now, is your father still a pilot or was he doing kind of the— Veteran: He was a pilot. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Yeah, he was pretty much a career pilot there. So, the next several assignments were involved with SAC. Going up to Westover was also a SAC assignment. We were up there for 3 years. Interviewer: Okay, so that’s the one that’s in Massachusetts. And then now we’ve got you after that in Maine and Georgia. Veteran: A couple of quick little trips there he was supposed to go to school down at Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville, Alabama. Sort of midway through the move, it was canceled so my mother and 3 children, we headed down to Texas to her home and visited with cousins and stayed there for a couple of months when I started 7th grade. High school football in Texas was a big deal to play. I played high school football there. So, then we head on up. His next assignment sent him up to Brunswick Naval Air Station in Brunswick, Maine. He was going to be the liaison officer going into—they were going to put a squadron of tankers, refuel tankers there. So, we get up there. I do the 7th grade there in Maine. We lived in a little village up the road called Wiscasset. Great times for a 7th grader. And then they decided not to send the tankers in there. So, he was then reassigned to Robbins Air Force Base in just south of Macon, Georgia. Two more years and at that point, he retired. I finished the 8th grade there. (00:05:10) �Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: 8th…9th grade. Interviewer: So, now what does he do after he gets out of the Air Force? Veteran: Well, he went to work for some—a friend of his that we knew who lived over in north Alabama. That’s TVA country, a lot of recreation on the, near the dam. Lake Guntersville, a bunch of lakes created by dams for the TVA. So, we moved to Guntersville. He went to work. Basically, he was a marine supply salesman. Traveled a bit on the road throughout the area. You know, selling the marine hardware and stuff. Interviewer: Okay. Now, is that where you finished high school? Veteran: I finished high school there, in 3 years, yeah. Interviewer: Alright. And, I don’t know, what was life like for you in those high school years? Veteran: It wasn’t bad. It was pretty good. I was valedictorian of my high school class. I was a jock, I played football and basketball. (00:06:12) Interviewer: And of course, you’ve come in from the outside. Did they accept you pretty quickly or…? Veteran: I was a pretty good football player, so I was readily accepted from the outside, yeah. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. And so, when do you graduate? Veteran: Graduated in ’64. Interviewer: Okay. And then upon graduation, what do you do? �Veteran: At that point, I head up the road to VMI, Virginia Military Institute. My brother had gone to VMI. He was—actually, he was 3 years ahead of me so his last year was my first year up there. During the summers I had a couple of jobs over in Huntsville. You know, the space program at that point. Boeing was there. I got a summer internship at Boeing one of the summers. And then once I got to VMI, they had—we had an ROTC requirement. We could go to summer camp and I have forgotten which of the summers that was. I think I probably worked there in Garnersville one summer. Worked for the power company. Interviewer: Alright. So, when you went to VMI, were you looking to have a career in the military or was this just a way, a place to go to college that kind of fit your background? Veteran: It—it was, you know, the career aspect was on my mind. You know, I come from a military family. My brother, he’s headed off on a military career and I didn’t know anything else. It’s not like, you know, I grew up with a dad who was a corporate guy and…or retail or whatever else is out there in the world. That was—the military was sort of the direction. And I found at VMI among my classmates…we had the Richmond bunch, the Tidewater bunch, these guys— you know, they’re 4th and 5th generation VMI. They knew they were going to VMI because it was a family thing. But you know, some said “I am going to do the military approach” and then some said “this is just going to college for me.” (00:08:23) Interviewer: Right. Okay, now describe a little bit what the curriculum was like at VMI. I mean, to what extent was it regular college and to what extent did you really feel like you were in a military academy? Veteran: Well, it’s kind of a good combination of both. In terms of the academics, it was very much a regular academic college. You know we had…I think we had 11 or 12 majors, we have �more now. I mean, they have really cranked up the academics there. But you know, we had major in civil engineering, we had mechanical engineering, we had electrical engineering, we had biology for the—to turn out a bunch of doctors through there. English, history, chemistry. So—physics, mathematics. So, people were getting their education. Interviewer: Now, about how large was your class, do you think? How many students were there? Veteran: Well, there was some attrition the first year. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: There always is from the military. So, they were rattling, we called it. I think we started with about 375. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: We graduated 275. Interviewer: Alright, now is the attrition from the academics or from people who get turned off by the military bit? Veteran: They got turned off. You know, if they make it through their rat year, their first year, then they are probably well on their way. I mean some people leave. I had one of my roommates, my 3rd class year which is the sophomores. You were at 1st class, 2nd class, 3rd class. One of my roommates left to go join the Army. He couldn’t wait to get to Vietnam. That was—he left to do that. And I remember another—actually, it was one of our class officers who left another year later. I mean, we are 2nds at this point. And he went off, joined the Army and go to Vietnam. Interviewer: Okay. (00:10:41) �Veteran: There were, there were a few of those but the— Interviewer: Explain the rat year thing a little bit. What was that? Veteran: The rat year was kind of life in the barracks as a rat. You know, you’re sort of at the bottom. It is drilled into you that you’re at the bottom and you need to shape up and learn and develop some character. And so, inside the barracks was the worst place. I mean once you are out. And we had two joined quads. So, you come in through a couple of the arches and it’s very much like this hotel. You had the interior stoops that you come out of your rooms, you have windows on the outside wall. You come out of your rooms onto—because it was a 10-foot wide stoop, we called it the balconies. And when you came out of your room, you were bracing. Your shoulders are back, your chin is as far back as you can get it pulled in, and you were marching straight out of your room out to the guard rails, the hand rails at the edge of the stoop. You take a right or a left, and you are marching down there with your chin tucked in and you just hope that you can get out of the barracks without being stopped by an upperclassmen who thinks you’re not really bracing hard enough and works on you. He asks you questions about your—we had a little thing called the rat bible. It had a lot of facts that you had to know. So, you get stopped there on the stoop and you get quizzed on the rat bible. Or you get quizzed on what’s the menu today at lunch in the mess hall. (00:12:24) Interviewer: Now, what happens if you do not answer in a satisfactory manner? Veteran: You might drop for push-ups. Happens a lot. As long as you’re not—I mean, if you’re just not knowing the answers, you just get yelled at and braced more. Some other infractions, you got sent before the rat disciplinary committee, which is an after taps party up on the 5th stoop where you get a sweat party and a lot more physical activity up there. That was another thing, if �you came out and your uniform wasn’t perfectly done, if you had a button unbuttoned or were— whatever, they would send you up. They would write you up and you would get a notice of when you would appear before the RDC to answer those allegations. Interviewer: Okay. And of course, this is now going on in the mid-1960s. Now I gather probably the people inclined to the counter-culture did not go to VMI. Veteran: Right. Interviewer: But there is still some sense of rebellion in the air or whatever. So, there might be people who don’t take to this well? Veteran: Oh, there were. And those were people who didn’t finish their first year. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: You know, they said “I didn’t understand what this was all about. It’s not for me.” Interviewer: Okay. Now, did VMI have black students at this point? Veteran: We did not. In fact, we had—we added the first black students the year after I graduated. We now have women also. The women—we fought that. You know, this long tradition of the male school and you know, we argue that the Mary Baldwin College had an institute, a leadership institute that provided the same opportunity. We fought for a long time. That case—and we were sued. And that case went to the Supreme Court. And we lost. And I was talking with someone yesterday about the difference, let’s say, between VMI’s approach to it and the Citadel. The Citadel later admitted women, but it was a hard time for them and it was—it could have been done better. But at VMI, when we lost that case, we said “Okay, we are in.” and I explained to the guy yesterday, one of the things that VMI did was they arranged with Texas A �and M, who also has a corps and they have women in their corps. We arranged for some of the upperclass women to come to VMI and attend so you’ve got some mentoring and some upperclass women to sort of ease this along. (00:15:33) Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: And, so as I said, you know we fought it, we lost, and we moved on. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, and in the meantime, you are now on schedule to go graduate in 1968. Now you are getting into kind of the peak of the Vietnam war. So, next question is sort of, between ’65 and ’68 as Vietnam is ramping up, how much attention are you paying to that at VMI? Veteran: We are aware of it. And you know, the thoughts are that yeah, probably most of us will wind up in it. Maybe not most but certainly we are not going to avoid that. You know, people are going to go different directions. You know, some of my classmates spent—took a reserve commission, spent time in Germany. So, you have some schooling. A lot of people get their basic officer training and various things. And then you go. So, not everyone went. And some people weren’t excited about going, and they were able to pick another place. (00:16:43) Interviewer: Okay. Now, if you are going to VMI, is it—do you have an obligation to enter the service, either as a reserve or regular officer or is that really up to you? Veteran: No. you…Well, times have changed, but when we were there, to get into VMI you had to be physically able to accept a commission and that you would. If you entered VMI, you know, 2 years later you had an accident that disabled you and you could not, no problem. But generally, everyone else was going to commission. And we had Army, we had the Air Force, we had the �Marine Corps option through the Navy. We didn’t have Navy but the PLC, the Platoon Leader Course, was available. So, there was 3 branches you could have. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, so you’re basically all heading there. Now, you graduate then in ’68. Do you receive your commission upon graduation, or how does that work? Veteran: We did. We were commissioned there. And we had a general officer from the Army, we had people from the 3 branches. And those people would hand you your commission as you came across the stage. Interviewer: Okay. Now, once you get that commission, what happens to you next? (00:18:11) Veteran: Well you could take—you could take maybe up to 30 days before you went. You know I took—took a couple weeks, I think, went home. And then there were a handful of us who got our initial orders and I didn’t think anything about it but in talking with someone yesterday they said “They sent you straight to your unit? They didn’t send you to school first?” I said “No.” We—there were about 6 of us who went directly to the 82nd airborne division down in Fort Bragg. Interviewer: Okay. Now, where did you place in your class? Veteran: Well, there were a couple things. Academically, there were 35 civil engineers. I was 10th. In the military structure, I was the first captain, the regimental commander of the corps of cadets. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, and then when you receive your commission, did some people get regular commissions and some reserve commissions? �Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: Okay, and which— Veteran: Yes, and I was offered a regular Army commission. That’s a 5-year commitment, 5years active duty. You could take a reserve commission and that’s I guess 2 or 3 years. And then I mean everyone would have a reserve commitment beyond but. So, I took it. I am thinking yeah, this is going to—we’re going to take a look. And so, I took the RA commission and… Interviewer: Okay, you take the commission and now you are sent straight to Fort Bragg to join the 82nd airborne division. Veteran: Right. Interviewer: Alright. Now, do you have any idea why that happened that way? Veteran: I am not sure. I am talking to Bob, you know yesterday. Because—he might have been the one who said “You got sent straight down to the 82nd as a leg?” If you know what I am talking about. You know, you show up at an airborne division and you’re not jump qualified then you’re a leg. Interviewer: Okay. Yeah, alright. Veteran: You’re disrespected. (00:20:14) Interviewer: Alright, now did you, once you get there, did you do jump school or— basically, take me through what happens. You show up at Fort Bragg. What do they do with you? Veteran: We are up at Fort Bragg. I was assigned as a platoon leader and then the 307th engineer battalion was 82nd’s battalion. The line companies—in addition to the line company, they had a �little light equipment platoon, no, company I am sorry, company. The 618th light equipment company. I was assigned as a platoon leader to that company. It had more equipment than the line companies did so it was sort of the equipment support. I know at one point we had a field exercise there which was—it was kind of a high light. We went out and then we had a 24-hour period to construct a 3000-foot airstrip out in the west end of the big 40,000 acre area for the FDA. So, in my platoon, we had road graders, we had dozers. And we’re out there pushing the clay around and constructing this airstrip. And a culmination of the exercise, they fly a 130 in there and landed on the airstrip. Interviewer: Okay, so a C-130, a big transport aircraft? Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: Okay. So, this is a light equipment company. What does a heavy equipment company have? Veteran: Well, you know, they had—the heavy equipment has got big dozers. We had the little toy dozers. Although, we had regular size motor graders. Interviewer: Yeah, the graders were there. Yeah, okay. Veteran: You know they say, you know, the light equipment can be air dropped. Well, they all can be air dropped once. But supposedly our light equipment could survive the drop and go on to bigger things. (00:22:13) Interviewer: Alright. Okay. Veteran: So, I got there. Fortunately, most of us got sent to jump school very quickly so we get down to Benning and had our 3-weeks training and come back, jump qualified. �Interviewer: Okay. And so, what does that training actually consist of? You go to Fort Benning, Georgia for 3-weeks, what do they do with you? Veteran: You have some—you start to learn how to land and how to don’t come in stiff legged, you’re going to break your legs. But you know, how you flex. And then we would practice by jumping off a 3-foot platform and then we would tuck and roll, like we are landing. And then we would go—and so, there is you know, a few days of that. And there’s always the physical training, you go out and do some runs. And then you move on to the 30-foot, 4-foot towers. So, you go up in the 34-foot tower. And they hook you up to a chute but basically, you’re—now you’re jumping from 34-feet and it’s going to be a quick hit. But again, now you’re practicing the same techniques from a 34-foot jump. Maybe we weren’t hooked up to a chute, maybe we were hooked up to, I don’t remember, bungee cords. Interviewer: You had some kind of—but there was something that is starting to break your fall before you hit the ground? Veteran: Right. I mean, you’re not going down any faster than a chute would normally get you down. So, we are doing the 34-foot towers. And then the last week was you went out and make 5 jumps. Interviewer: Okay. And do you remember your first jump? Veteran: No. No. Interviewer: Okay. They just kind of run together? (00:24:02) Veteran: They run together. Interviewer: Okay. Did you enjoy doing it? �Veteran: I did. You know, we were—here we got a bunch of us, we all come down from VMI, we are gung-ho second lieutenants and we wanted to be there and so we had…Bob was impressed. He said “How many jumps did you make?” I said, “I made about—in 18-months I was there, I made about 55 jumps.” You know, you had to jump once a month for pay purposes, to remain qualified. But you could find jumps on the weekends, you can go out strapping with you know a plane because there are people that needed those jumps. Especially toward the end of the month, they got to go get their jump in so you could find jumps. And we liked doing that. Interviewer: Alright. Okay, so you get through that and then you’re…Now, do you have schools that you go through at Fort Bragg? I mean once your things—you didn’t go to school immediately, but once you are there… Veteran: So, jump school is at Benning. The next thing that came for me at one, literally there were 3 of us, I guess 3 engineer officers there in the battalion. We went up to Fort Belvoir because that’s where the engineer officer basic course was. So, we were up there for, I don’t know, 6 weeks or so. Went through that. Interviewer: Okay, and what does that actually consist of? Veteran: Well, that’s some leadership skills, that’s some…I don’t remember a lot of it, but you know, more oriented toward the engineer function in the units. Interviewer: Okay, so what do Army engineers actually do in…? (00:26:01) Veteran: Well, you got the combat engineers and they’re, you know, mostly the trip units. I mean you go to the 82nd, it’s not like going to the Savannah Corps of Engineers district, where you are in civilian works. �Interviewer: Right. Veteran: So we’re—this is pretty much focused on the combat unit, trip units. Interviewer: Right. But they’re assuming that you know most of your basic engineering at this point? Veteran: No, I don’t think they do actually. Because I ran into a lot of people who didn’t have, I mean it’s not, the fact that I got a degree in civil engineering. You know, I ran into guys who…Well, you had the OCS guys and they can come from any kind of background. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: So, it was…You know, I talk about the Army manuals, the field manuals that, you know, go look in the manual. You’re going to build some temporary bunkers over there, which we did a lot of. They got manuals and they kind of walk you through where you can find the resources. And then we had some specific classes on that. But it was broad. I think all of the officer basic courses are broad. Interviewer: Okay, because they have to get you ready for wherever they might send you or whatever you might do. Veteran: Right. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. So now you do that, now you can…But you don’t really stop there, you go on for further training. Veteran: No we, you know—we are sort of back and forth to the division. You know, show up, go to jump school, come back, go to Belvoir for the basic. And that was sort of September/October timeframe. And then I went to ranger school back in Fort Benning in—I was �what was called a winter ranger. We started in the middle of January and it was an 8-week school. Interviewer: Okay, did they do all of it at Fort Benning or did they take you different places? (00:28:06) Veteran: We went—there were 3 phases. You had the initial phase there at Benning, which was a lot of physical training and some classroom instruction. Then the mountain phase, we went up to Dahlonega, Georgia. And this is, this is around the 1st of February. Snow on the ground, cold. Interviewer: You’re in the mountains of north Georgia, right? Veteran: We were in the mountains of north Georgia, doing our mountain activities, if you will. And then, sort of late February, we went down to Eglin Air Force Base for the swamp training. Interviewer: Okay, and that’s in Florida? Veteran: That is in Florida, yep. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, so you get all of this. Now, what kinds of people were there? Were they all mostly young lieutenants or were there more higher-grade officers? Veteran: The—mostly they were certainly company grade. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: I don’t think we saw any majors and above. I can’t remember. There must have been some NCOs, they would do that as well. But yeah, a lot of—all the west borders, all the VMI guys and—all the VMI guys that want to go. So, yeah. Interviewer: So, what motivated you to do that? I mean… �Veteran: Oh, it was all the same. I mean, you know, we are in this. Let’s not skimp on this, let’s not skip something that you know is going to make us better prepared. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. And then, so you do that, and then you come back to your unit again in Fort Bragg. Veteran: Back to Bragg. I had one more school. I went to the jump master school. So that’s you know, most people making the jumps you know they line up, you’re in the plane, they line up. Everybody hooks up. The jump master is the guy directing traffic. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: You know, he is giving the instructions. He’s running everybody out and then out he goes. So, several of us went to jump master. That was a—just a brief, maybe a couple weeks I think. And that was there at Fort Bragg. So, then we were—so back in the division. And then I, well, most of us got—we went to first lieutenant, beginning of June. (00:30:26) Interviewer: Right. So, you’re basically, you’ve had your commission for a year and done well and so you get the promotion. Veteran: Yeah. That was at that point, you know, they were pretty much cranking them along. Interviewer: Okay, so we have gotten you to basically the middle of 1969. You got your commission, now you’re a first lieutenant. And what do you do at this point? Veteran: Well, at this point, I had the opportunity to interview for a job as an aide to one of the assistant division commanders who was just coming in. General Sam Walker, he went to VMI for a year and then he went to West Point, and that’s okay. But I interviewed and I got the job so now I become the aide to General Walker. He—there were 3, the CG, the commanding general, �was John Dean, major general. The two divisions, assistant division commanders, John Hennessy was the ADC for operations and Sam Walker came in to be the ADC for support. So, I spend the next—well, we get started. So, I am his aide. You know, following him around doing stuff. And that was kind of routine, you would see what these general officers did because they huddled a lot. So, I pretty well knew all 3 of them. And then my classmates started heading across to Vietnam. And, you know, I started seeing you can’t wait too late. You need to be in there at the platoon level, when they get over there. You need that. (00:32:28) Interviewer: Okay, so why do you need that? Veteran: The experience. You know, most of us feel, you know as you go up, it’s important that you understand the jobs. And so if you have never been a platoon leader, you maybe don’t appreciate things that occur at the platoon level and don’t know what your subordinate officers are dealing with. Interviewer: Now, for career purposes, is it important at this point that you get to Vietnam and lead a platoon in Vietnam if you’re going to move up or whatever? Veteran: Yeah, I think, you know if you go in the Army in the middle of ’68 and 5, 6 years later you have—you didn’t mark that off on your ticket? You know. So, yeah I think the people—you know, the good classmate of mine who went to Germany, he was a basketball player. He was there on scholarship at VMI and he had an obligation but going to Vietnam was really not high on his list. But the others who were inclined to make the military a career? Certainly, they want to get over there. Interviewer: Okay, so if you had wanted to, could you just have stayed at Fort Bragg indefinitely or gone on to Germany or something? �Veteran: I could have stayed longer as General Walker’s aide. I mean, I went to him and I said “Sir, you know, I need to get over there.” And I had been his aide at that point for, it was about 6 months, so. He said “Fine do you have any particular interests?” I said, “Well, I know that General Hennessy is—had just gone over.” So, General Hennessy left from the 82nd, went to the 101st. And I said, “I’d like to get to the 101st, and I would actually like to have an infantry platoon.” And he smiled. And so, you know, within a month I was—in December, I headed over to Vietnam. And so, I had my orders read: you’re going to the 101st. (00:34:53) Interviewer: Okay, so did you have those orders before you left? Or did you get those once you got to Vietnam? Veteran: I can’t remember. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: You know, most guys…You show up there at Vietnam and then you’re waiting around, you find out where you’re going. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: So, I knew, and I can’t remember if I knew before or not. But I knew that that was going to happen. Interviewer: Right. Now, what’s the process for getting you to Vietnam? Physically, how do you get there? Veteran: Oh, physically. I flew out of Oakland. That—well, I was at the time, well I was at Fort Bragg. So, I was on the east coast. I mean, you pack up and then you fly out to California and �you get on a—and we are flying commercial. So, I believe going over, I can’t remember. I think I went through Hawaii going over. Interviewer: Yeah, that’s common. Veteran: Yeah, there were two routes. You go through Hawaii or you go up through Alaska and down. So, we fly on in and we land at Tan Son Nhut. Everybody was looking out the windows, trying to figure out what to expect. And I am thinking, “Well, we don’t have weapons. Should we be worried about that?” You know, we are going to get off the plane at the tarmac there and should we be worried about that? What is next? So, we just load on buses and off we go. And then we go to the replacement center. You know, I can’t remember, we hang around a day or two or whatever. And I don’t remember how I got up to the 101st, up to Camp Eagle. (00:36:44) Interviewer: Alright, so Tan Son is the big airfield outside of Saigon. So, you’re down in the southern part of South Vietnam at that point. Veteran: Right. Interviewer: And the 101st airborne— Veteran: We were up at, it was up at I Corps. You know, the country was divided into 4 military zones, were what we called them. We just referred I Corps, the roman numeral, I Corps from the DMZ coming down and II Corps, III Corps, and IV Corps. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: So, 101st and the Marines were up in I Corps. Interviewer: Right. Okay, so when do you actually arrive in Vietnam? Veteran: It was in December, I guess middle of December. �Interviewer: So, December of ’69? Veteran: Right, yes. Interviewer: Alright, now by that time, the 101st had had a pretty ugly engagement with a place called Hamburger Hill about 6 month or so earlier. Had you followed that story at the time, while it was going on? Or were you just doing other stuff? Veteran: I was doing other stuff. You know we maybe heard…Well, you didn’t hear a lot. And they didn’t really want anybody to hear anything about Hamburger Hill. Interviewer: Alright, but that had happened already. Okay. Veteran: Right. Interviewer: And…Now, I guess, when you got off the plane, did you notice the physical conditions? Or was there weather or anything like that? What happened at Tan Son when you first got there? (00:38:13) Veteran: I believe the weather—the weather was not too bad. You know, the monsoon…Vietnam sort of gets, it’s long enough that they experience. In the north they have a different season than in the south. In the north, we had the monsoons from about November through beginning of March. Cold and rainy. If you were down south, you would have the opposites. You had summer. You’re hot and rainy in the south. So, I am assuming that it being December, Tan Son was probably not bad. Warm. Interviewer: Yeah. Some people comment on the heat or on the smell or things like that when they get off the plane. But that doesn’t register with everyone, son that’s just why I �asked. Okay, so then they get you up and normally they will fly you up to Da Nang or Fu Bai or some place. You get in a truck and go where you’re going. Veteran: Right. Interviewer: Okay, so when you got up to the 101st, what specific unit did you join? Veteran: When I got to the 101st, General Hennessy met me. And I spent about 10 days with him and his aide. Went everywhere he went. And so, he gave me a broad picture of what was going on. I remember we flew out to the hospital ship Hope. You know, toured around while he’s putting medals on people who are—they were on the ship. Went to fire bases with him. I do remember that there, around Christmastime, there was a USO show. And I was able to go to that. So, I am—I got a cush job here for 10 days, just going around with him. And then off I go to the—I went to Delta company, 2 506th infantry, the 3rd brigade. Interviewer: Okay so 2nd battalion, yeah. Veteran: Yeah, 2nd battalion 506th infantry. And they were based in Evans, Camp Evans, which was also where B company of 326th engineers was based because B company supported the brigade. (00:40:25) Interviewer: Alright. And so now, once you arrive there at Camp Evans, you have your orders. What happens to you? What do you do? Veteran: I meet my company commander. I meet my platoon. And we were in base camp. Within just a few days, we were going out on our first mission. Mostly what we were doing was you’re out in the field, you’re humping the boonies, you’re looking for trouble. And so, we were—a couple incidents. One thing that happened on the helipad. You were going to fly out of �the LZ, the helipad there at Evans. And I had a staff sergeant, Jerry Pounds, that’s one guy I remember. He was my platoon sergeant. We are up on the helipad, everybody is packing their rucks and you know checking equipment. Sergeant Pounds came over with a case of C rations. And he starts popping the C rations open. And he said, “Here sir, take what you want. Get the meals out to the troops.” And I looked at him. I said, “What?” He said, “Well, take what you want and I’ll get—” I said, “No, no, no, that’s not how it goes. You take the meals and get them to the troops, and whatever is left bring back to me.” He said, “Wow, that’s a change.” And at that point I thought what did—who have I replaced here? I was shocked. I was shocked. So anyway, we continue on our way. We get packed up and off we go. And the platoon was inserted somewhere out in the jungle. (00:42:32) Interviewer: Okay. Now, were you just going out in a platoon sized operation at that point? Was it just you by yourselves? Veteran: Well, the company was going but we would be moving independently, the platoon would move. Interviewer: Alright, but how many men were in your platoon do you think when you joined it? Veteran: About 23, 24. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Veteran: A little under staffed but most of them were… Interviewer: Okay. And did anything happen on these early patrols? Did you find any enemy? �Veteran: Very rarely. We had some contact. We probably had a couple of contacts you know, where we actually exchanged fire. But it was just very momentary. They were not looking—they were not sticking around. You know, we ran into them and they were not looking for a fight. So, we’re exchanging some fire as they were heading out. So, you know, we did this…I think we were out a week and then we got resupplied and so it was—you know, brief periods but this was during the monsoon you know, so we set up night ambushes, we got a night defensive position, and we’d set the ambushes. We’d set out our claim wars around the NDP and I remember, you know, you’re trying to get a little sleep under a poncho and you’ve taken your poncho and taken sticks to try and hold it off the ground about 18 inches so you can get under and maybe stay a little dry but…So, that kind of stuff. (00:44:08) Interviewer: Okay. Now, to what extent did you try to assert your authority and to what extent did you try to learn from the guys around you when you first got there? What approach did you take to leadership I guess when you joined them? Veteran: Well, I think when Sergeant Pounds went and gave the guys their C rats, I think he must have said something to them, that things are different here. I didn’t feel any need to sort of exert my authority like the guy who knew everything. I mean, I had just come into the country, but I knew the mission. And we had been out for 3 or 4 days and Sergeant Pounds came to me with another little ditty. He said—he walked over, he said “Well sir, I got to hand it to you: you know how to read a map too.” And I thought, “What?” So, you know at that point I thought—I didn’t have any problem. I did make…It maybe wasn’t the first week, I said “Sergeant Pounds, the men need to shave.” He said, “Really?” I said, “Yeah, I want them shaving their faces.” I said, “Don’t get me wrong, it’s not—I don’t care whether they—I dint care about their whiskers. But if they �shave their faces, I know they’re washing their faces.” And that was what was important for me. So. Interviewer: So, you were concerned about infections or…? Veteran: Yeah, this was just hygiene you know? I mean, I’ve gone times where when we go out for a week, you don’t take a shower you know, and so you kind of neglect your personal hygiene and I said at least I want them washing their faces and shaving. And they did. (00:46:09) Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: It wasn’t a big deal at that point. Interviewer: But basically, what you would do is you would have your orders or whatever and you would probably talk to Sergeant Pounds or the squad leaders and then you went and did it? Veteran: Right. I mean really, we got 23 guys and we’re just carefully moving through, looking for contact and seeing what we see. And we’ve got—we’ve got a map, but we are keeping in touch with Captain Wallgood you know, and he’s got orders of where the company needs to be and how he’s covering the area with his platoons. You know, so we know where we are and we know what we are working and that changes as we go along. Interviewer: Okay. Now how long did you spend as a platoon leader? Veteran: It was about 3 months. It was January, February, March. Interviewer: Right. Okay. Veteran: Oh, one other thing that we did in January was called an artillery raid. And that’s where it’s planned and the raid is simply a one day in and out. We had in January, the company had an �artillery raid up to fire base Shepherd, which was up—it was an old Marine fire base. It was not used. I mean, it had been abandoned. So, we got an abandoned fire base and we planned the artillery raid. The company goes in as perimeter security. They fly in a battery of 105 Howitzers. They have already pre-planned their fires. They have targets in that area that they’re planning to fire on. So then we pop in there, they fire for the day, and then we pull out. And it was pretty quiet. You know, you like to think these are surprise raids, that’s why it’s called a raid. We had little or no activity until we were leaving and I remember as the chopper I was on sort of hopped off the hill and started gaining momentum, we started taking fire from the ground. You know, from down the side of the hill. (00:48:27) Interviewer: Okay. Alright, now are there other particular incidents that stand out in your memory from your time as a platoon leader, before we move on? Veteran: Not really. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. So, what brought your time as a platoon leader to an end? Veteran: Well, at that point I said this has been interesting. I had hoped for—I had wanted more contact. And people say, “You did?” I say, “Yeah, I did.” You know, I had wanted to make this a meaningful experience and it wasn’t—it didn’t turn out to be that. I mean, other than leading the troops and having the experience. And at that point I asked, I said “Okay, I am an engineer officer and I think I’ve seen what there is here and I am ready to go back to the engineers.” So, at that point I was able to go back. And at that point I went to B company 326 there at Evans so I got there just in time to go out on April 1st to Ripcord as an engineer instead of an infantryman. Interviewer: Alright. So, explain what happens that day, what do you recall about that and what do you know about it? �Veteran: That was the worst day of my life, without doubt. Ripcord had been abandoned the year before so we are going to go out. This is sort of the springboard again because of the monsoon. The year would go where, because of the monsoon in the winter, we couldn’t resupply fire bases so everybody pulls back. (00:50:07) Interviewer: Okay. You couldn’t resupply fire bases that were up in the mountains? Veteran: Right. Interviewer: And so, Ripcord was basically a hilltop fire base. Veteran: Yeah. There were some that were closer to the coast that were lower but Ripcord was out there. It wasn’t all the way to the A-Shau but it was out there and then because of the elevation, the weather was very, very difficult. You couldn’t drive to Ripcord. Some of the nearer ones, there were roads out, you could drive out to them. But so, we are going back to Ripcord to reopen it on April 1st. We had 2 sorties of 14 birds each: the infantry company and the battalion forward CP went out initially. I had 12 of my engineers. We were in the 2nd sortie, so they took—14 went out, they come back and pick up the rest of us, out we go. By the time we went out, that was around 9:30 in the morning. As we are approaching, I am looking down and there is red smoke all over the hill. So, red smoke means the LZ is hot, we are taking fire. You know. And so as we came in, the Huey I was in, and I am sure most of them, came in at about 5 feet off the ground. They started yelling, “Get out!” So, we are jumping out of the Hueys, grabbing our stuff and off you go. I mean, the birds were getting out of there as fast as they could because they are taking mortars. And by that point, there were people who are already wounded, maybe some killed, I am not sure. There were—I think there were 8 people killed that day at Ripcord. We get off. I just—I had my 12 guys. I made sure I knew where they were. I gathered �them, made sure they were accounted for in foxholes. There was no overhead cover at that point. I mean that was one of our missions, was to go in, get the bunkers going. (00:52:23) Interviewer: Okay. But there were foxholes there already? Veteran: There were foxholes. Just dug foxholes. And so, I made sure the guys were at least below. You know, if a mortar lands, you want to be below. You’re not going to find—if it lands right on you, you’re done. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: And then I had 5 guys with me. We found 2 foxholes that were—well, they were about 5 feet long, a couple feet wide and 4 feet deep. And then there was one here and about 18 inches dirt, and then there was a second one. So, we got 3 guys in here. I am in here with 2 other guys. And we stayed there, because there is nothing else to do. I mean, we are not being attacked. I mean, we are not in fighting positions, fending off a ground attack. We were sitting there taking the mortar rounds. And this all started to be cyclical because the mortars would start firing when the birds came in. So, once the 2 sorties were in, they’re done. We were trying to get med evacs in and we had several med evacs who came in to pick up wounded. They took a few of the bodies out early but it reached the point where when the birds left, the mortars stopped. When the birds came back in, the mortars started. And this went on—and I have forgotten what time of day it was, but you know, you’re talking about being scared to death. You could hear a mortar round dropped in the tube. Everybody knows that thump. And then you hear the whistle going up and then you hear the whistle coming down. And so, every time you hear them, you just pray it’s not going to drop in your foxhole. (00:54:30) Interviewer: Okay. So now, what happens to your men over the course of that day? �Veteran: We just sat tight until the mortar landed in this foxhole. And Milt Swain was my radio operator and my jeep driver in the back. Landed right in his lap. You know, so we are all just kind of crouched down in the bottom and that mortar landed in that foxhole. It was a 60. If it had been an 80-82 millimeter mortar, all 3 of them would have been gone. Interviewer: So, was just—was he the only one killed at that point? Veteran: He was the only one killed. The other 2 were wounded. They jumped out of those foxholes. And I asked Dave Kenyon about this because I couldn’t remember where Dave was. And he said “No, I was over in another foxhole with two other guys.” But he said when Milton got killed, those 2 other guys were out of that foxhole and they ran over to our foxhole, they were—they were just a mess. They were med-evaced. Now, Milton’s body was not at that time. But you know, we are still doing this. And you know, it’s like 2 o’clock in the afternoon and what we have done all day is sit there and get shelled. And all day, we had—General Wright was the division commander. He’s up there in his bird. I know the brigade commander was up there. I don’t remember who that was? Interviewer: It was Bradley at that point. (00:56:10) Veteran: It was not Ben Harrison. Interviewer: Yeah, Harrison wasn’t there yet. Veteran: So, Bradley is up there. You know, everybody is up there trying to figure out what we are doing. And during the day, we had attack air was calling in and dropping bombs. They came in with Napalm. And they had what’s called counter battery radar. I don’t know if you are familiar with that but it was not at Ripcord, it was over on another fire base. But with counter battery radar, you can locate the origin points from tracking the arc up and where—and they can �back it to those points. And they had about 13 different places around Ripcord where firing was being done. And throughout the day, not one of them was stopped. Because what you had was the bunker complexes. And they already knew we were coming in clearly, because they were— their rounds were dropping on the fire base. They were not trying to zero in their guns. Their guns were ready and they would hop out of their little bunker holes, pop a round in or two, and they are back in their hole by the time attack air is there. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: So, none of that—you know, none of that was stopped. Interviewer: Right. Now, there had been an attempt to land in Ripcord in March already. So, they had evidence even from that that this was a place of interest and they had time to plan. Veteran: Right. Interviewer: But even that attack was thwarted in part by enemy fire. Veteran: And yeah, I wasn’t aware of that. You know, it’s funny because sometimes you can be a grunt platoon leader and not know a thing about what’s going on, other than maybe what your company is doing. (00:58:06) Interviewer: Right. Yeah, so that was before you were worrying about that kind of thing and so…? Veteran: You’re right, you’re right. I didn’t know what was going on at Ripcord but…So, middle of the afternoon, the decision was made: okay, we are giving it up today. Everybody is going to walk off the hill and you’re going to meet up with—I think it was alpha company. Alpha over �there. And he was over there, it was not one of the numbered hills. We’ve got 805, 605, 902. He was just over on the next hill in the jungle. And he sent a couple guys down to meet us and you know, so the remainder probably had, I don’t know, 100-110 people by then after, you know, some of them being taken out. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: So, we walked off. Interviewer: And what time of day was this? Veteran: This was hitting late afternoon. It was starting to get a little dark. And then we hooked up with Al. You know, get up to the top of the hill and I know Al. Al was a year ahead of me at VMI and I know him very well. I said, “Glad to see you, buddy.” So, at that point, they’re trying to fire on us but they don’t know where we are because it was not a known hill. We were just in the jungle but they are starting to move their fire. The infantry company that had been the security on Ripcord…You know, we overnighted there with Al and then I think the next day, that infantry company regrouped. And they headed back into the field. Interviewer: Right. (1:00:02) Veteran: To start doing some work. Interviewer: Yeah, that was the B company. They complained they didn’t get enough food from A company. Veteran: So…Oh, okay. Well, all best plans. Well, the plan was that for, so…I am sure it was for 3 engineers, so 13, there were 10 of us. I got 9 guys. And the plan was just to airlift us back to Evans for now. And we couldn’t get out for 3 days. You know we wake up, we woke up the next �morning and look down in the lowlands and we see Evans is sucked in with weather. So, birds can’t get out. Okay, we’ll wait and later in the day…Well, as it lifted down there, it rose and we couldn’t get out. And that happened for a couple of days. And it was fine I think the 3rd day before they could get us out. Well, yeah we were a little short on food at that point. Because that wasn’t the plan, to go in with a week’s worth of C rats for the Ripcord opening. Interviewer: Alright. Now, in the meantime do you get harassed by the NVA at all or do they leave you alone? Veteran: I think they pretty much left us alone. Again, they weren’t sure where we were and now after April 1st, I think the concentration—there was much more effort, trying to locate and root out these spots that…So, I think there was less of that. Interviewer: Now, did the company move around at all or did you just stay in one place? Veteran: We stayed right there. Pretty much. I think Al had people working in the mediate vicinity but the engineers, we pretty much stayed there with Al’s command post. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, so after 3 days or whatever it is, you get back to Evans again. Okay. And now, a few days after that…Okay, so we’ve now basically made it into April of 1970 and the 2nd attempt, I mean there were people would walk up on April 11th. The company walks up rather than flying in helicopters so nobody shoots at them. And once they’re there, it’s time to start building a base. And so, what do you either remember or know about what your platoon did? (1:02:39) Veteran: Well, I don’t remember details but yes, we went back in. we must have gone out on choppers and they would have brought out one of our little dozers. So, I went back in with probably a couple of my squads and David Kenyon was in one of those. And he reminded me. �And then we spent probably 3 weeks or so constructing fortifications, the covered bunkers, doing wire—perimeter wire. You know, that’s the kind of job that typically we did in support of fire bases. You know, opening— Interviewer: Okay. Now, were you coordinating with any of the infantry officers? Because there was a captain by the name of Vazquez who was—he commanded that company. Veteran: I don’t remember him but I have heard stories about him. Interviewer: Puerto Rican captain. It was something. And he--his, I mean he talked a lot about how exactly he wanted the wire laid and how he wanted the fighting positions constructed and things like that. Veteran: Yeah, we weren’t doing so much the individual. I know that he was very adamant about the individual fighting positions. We were—we focused on the big bunkers, the battalion for— the command post for you know, they were underground. They’re constructed out of heavy timber and then covered. (1:04:10) Interviewer: Right, and the artillery positions? Veteran: We would have shaped those up with the dozers. And then they do a lot of the revetments of the—after they have fired a bit, they’ve got the wooden ammo boxes that are great for sort of constructing the revetments around the fighting positions. Interviewer: Right. But the infantry did take their own positions in a lot of cases, so you didn’t do that for them? Veteran Right. In talking yesterday with someone, I realized that we, the engineer, we had a small sector of the perimeter. So, you got infantry so we were out there. So, certainly in our little �sector we were responsible for, you know, clearing the fields of fire the way Captain Vazquez wanted them. And making sure that our fighting positions were in our sector. So, we took care of that. We generally didn’t do the individual positions for everybody around the base. Interviewer: Right. And describe a little bit about what you remember about what the layout of the hill looked like? Or what did you have up there? Veteran: It was very irregular. It’s hard for me to remember. Even from both of April 1 and then later of…The layout, because it had been used before. So, you got a lot of dirt that had been pushed around you know for bunkers and that sort of thing previously. Don’t really remember too much. Interviewer: Okay. How rocky was it? I mean, was it—did you have to blast a lot of rock? Veteran: No, no blasting. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: No blasting. We could push it all with the dozer. (1:06:00) Interviewer: Alright. And while you were there, this is basically most of the rest of April probably that you’re there? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Were you taking in any fire? Veteran: Not that I remember. It was…No. �Interviewer: Okay. Well I guess at this point you got—the line companies are working the area around it, it might have been a little harder to launch mortars at you if they wanted to. Veteran: Right. Interviewer: But anyway, it was relatively quiet? Veteran: I think we were surprised when we went back in 10 days later and…nothing. And you know, so that was the build up of, you know, Ripcord as the fortified base that it later was. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: I have one vague recollection. It had to have happened on Ripcord when we had our own little sector of the platoon and you know, we got word came to the fire base that, you know, you need to get ready, you need to be on full alert tonight. You’re going to get hit with zappers. So, pucker up boys. Nothing happened. It didn’t happen but I do remember that because we were on edge and that, you know, wasn’t that often that we were. Especially with the engineers on the perimeter, which we weren’t— Interviewer: Yeah. So, you’re out there on the perimeter at night. I mean, can you see anything? Veteran: No. I know they shot a lot of flares. And they’d do that. And you’re thinking, we are supposed to hear them? You know, we got trip wires and trip flares in the wire and you’re hoping that you are going to be able to sense their movement coming up the side of the hill. Interviewer: Right. Okay. So, you’re there, you do your job. Now, you just go on to do other jobs from there? (1:08:00) �Veteran: I did. And I expect some of the engineers may have left a squad there to continue. But you know, I am back here and there. I remember going on a recovery mission in the middle of May. One of the resupply chopper from headquarters company 2/506 went down. Went down in the jungle with 4 crew. You had Lieutenant John Darling, was at West Point ’68. I knew—I had met him so I knew him. He was on—I think he was the common officer for the battalion. He and one of his guys were on the bird. They’re going out on this resupply. The bird went down and crashed and rolled. And one of the crew, one of the helicopter crew survived. He didn’t know— he had no idea where he was. He moved out and he was picked up. I don’t…You know, within that day or the next day. He didn’t know where the bird was. It took them about 5 or 6 days to find the bird. So, you’ve got 5 bodies in that bird in the May heat and they’re going out on a recovery mission. And I got tasked and I took 1 or 2 of my engineers in case we needed to go in and blast a landing zone nearby to do our work. We went in with the body bags to get the 5 bodies and make sure that the equipment in the chopper was totally destroyed. The bird wasn’t coming out. So, that’s something that I distinctly remember, going on that mission was horrendous. (1:10:15) Interviewer: Okay, now how did they get you in? I mean if you said there’s not a landing zone there. Veteran: Well, I don’t know whether there was or not. And I guess it’ll be a mystery. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Somehow, we— Interviewer: But basically, what stands out for you is just the nature of the mission. And were the bodies still there? �Veteran: The bodies were there and the smell was horrible. We put on gas masks. Interviewer: Had the NVA been there, as far as you could tell? Veteran: No. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: I guess they didn’t know where it was either. So, you know, that was just one of those odd jobs that we did and I remember that one. But you know, we are supporting the battalion fire bases. There were a couple others that were active at that point. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And, you know, whatever was needed. Interviewer: Yeah. And at that point, at least, well, 2/506 wasn’t having combat at that point but some of the other battalions got into things. 1/506 had some trouble in May. I mean there were—there were sort of different fights that went on at different points but basically—but you’re just doing your job as engineers and you’re going and building things or moving things as needed. Veteran: Right. Right. Interviewer: Okay. Now, how much longer did you spend as a platoon leader? Veteran: Probably the first week in June, I was promoted to captain. So, at that point—at that point I was assigned, I took over headquarters company 326, the engineer headquarters company. And that was at Camp Eagle. So, I am out of the AO there, at least in that area. And I spent the next—about the next 6 months down at Eagle. I was the headquarters company commander part of the time, and then part of the time I was the battalion S-1. And that was coming up on the end �of my tour. And I made a deal, I extended, and I went back out. When I came back, I took an R and R at the end of the year, came back from R and R and I went to B company 326 so I am back up at Evans as the company commander now in January. (1:12:41) Interviewer: Okay. Well, let’s kind of get into parts of that story now. So, when you are headquarters company commander at Phu Bai, what did the job consist of? Veteran: A lot of vehicle maintenance, a lot of administration. So, not out anywhere. Interviewer: Okay, now while you are doing that, that’s when things get hot out at Ripcord, particularly in July. How much of that did you pay attention to, or how much of that were you aware of? Veteran: It must have been a closely guarded secret because it was 35 years later before I came to realize what happened in June and July. Had no clue. I am sitting there at Camp Eagle, no clue. Interviewer: Alright. So, what’s daily life like on a big base like that? Veteran: You’re expected to have clean, starched fatigues, you’re, you know…Not the life that I had been used to there for, you know, for the past 6 months. Ran around battalion headquarters. We actually, the engineer battalion, had the old Seabee Camp. The Seabees had a bunch of Quonset huts that they had used for maintenance and so forth, and that was ideal for us. You know, you go to briefings, taking care of business and kind of a—not a memorable occasion. (1:14:21) �Interviewer: Alright. Now there are a lot of kind of stereotypes about Vietnam and what went on there and so forth. One is particularly with base camps. There was a lot of problems with drug use and things like that. Are you aware of any of that kind of thing? Veteran: I didn’t encounter much of that. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: A lot of beer drinking but I didn’t encounter—I didn’t really come across a lot of drugs. Interviewer: Okay. And the other thing had to do with racial tensions. Was there some segregation? Did the blacks segregate themselves? Or were there fights and things like that? Veteran: Not so much in the engineer battalion. Yeah, I think the grunts had it a little different. Yeah, I think with the engineers. I mean we had, you know, when you’re back in base camp, you got a little bit more meaningful jobs perhaps that you are doing. And i think that, you know, our experiences on the fire bases carried back to the back as well. I didn’t see a lot of that. Interviewer: Yeah. Well, I asked because there is different—a great deal of experiences. A lot of this stuff gets over blown because it’s the sensational part. Veteran: Right. Yeah. Interviewer: But for you, it wasn’t really registering that those kinds of things were issues. Veteran: No. I had a few individuals…You know, had to work through problems individually but it wasn’t so much, you know, racial divide. It was, you know, a guy didn’t want to go out in the field because he was derosing in 3 weeks. He wasn’t getting on that chopper to go out there. You know, that sort of thing. (1:16:02) �Interviewer: Yep. Veteran: So, you just have to work through that. But again, and I am not taking credit for being the dynamic leader that you know, made sure there were no problems. But I just—it just happened that way it seemed like. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, and now somewhere along the line, you decide to extend? Veteran: I did. Interviewer: How did that come about? Veteran: Well, that’s because I wanted to command the line company. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And headquarters company and division headquarters and kind of doing that stuff. It’s not like having the line company out there supporting the brigade. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And that’s—so, that’s what I got. And I had that for the remaining 6 months. Interviewer: Okay. And in between, you took an R and R? Veteran: I took an R and R. After the 1st year, I took an R and R. I think it was…I think I only took one. Interviewer: And you didn’t go back? Veteran: I didn’t go back to the states. I wasn’t married. And my parents, it wasn’t like, “Oh, I can’t wait to see you!” You know? I mean, they sent my brother and me off, we go off and join the military, and that’s what they expected, you know? �Interviewer: Okay. So, what did you pick for R and R? Veteran: I went to Sidney. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: My week in Sidney, yeah. It was quite a time. It was different. Interviewer: So, like just being out of a war zone for a while? Veteran: People were friendly and you know—which, wouldn’t have been the case had I gone back to the states. But I remember the Sidney Opera House. I mean, everybody has seen the photos of the sort of clamshell stacked up there. But yeah, I enjoyed my time. And then I headed back. Interviewer: Alright. Okay. So, you get back. So, during what time span then are you commanding that company? Veteran: Well, that’s from January to June. I came home in June of ’71. This is ’71 now. (1:18:07) Interviewer: Okay. Now during that time then, what—what kinds of things did you do with the company? Veteran: Well, the big thing that occurred was Lam Son 719. And that was an operation in the works. And I took my company up to Khe Sanh. You know, this was staged. 101st went into Khe Sanh. This thing kicked off I think January 30th was the day they identify. And I went out with— we took some of our little dump trucks, drove out. We didn’t chopper out. Some of the people might have but we basically moved some equipment out. And that had been the Marine base. It had pretty much taken a beating and they had taken artillery fire. And you know, little craters all �over the runway. The runway was made of that steel planking. We didn’t repair, they brought in a specialty engineer platoon that repaired those planks. You can replace them. First thing was to get the runway in shape. That was going on but when we got up there, our job was to again start constructing bunkers. We had the dozers, we start cutting these deep, big slots, getting the timber bunkers built inside of them, filling them and covering them, while the airstrip is getting rehab. And once the airstrip got rehab, then they started flying in C-130s. and never stopped. They would come in from the east end. The runway ran east-west and was sort of a drop off on the east end. But they would come through, drop the tailgate, plop a little parachute out the back and then we’d yank these pallets of supplies out the back of the 130s and they never stopped. It was just kind of a touch and go operation and they started, you know, we started ramping up the prep for supporting the ARVNs going into Laos. Interviewer: Alright, so the ARVNs were invading Laos. The Americans couldn’t officially go with them? Veteran: The only one—right. Which—well, there were advisors and there were helicopters. (1:20:29) Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: And it was largely the 101st aviation assets, and I think we had some additional units for the south. So, we are providing the aviation assets and we are inserting them in various spots over. You know, they had an operation, which again was one of those things that I read a book here in the past couple years to find out really what was going on there. Had no idea. So, we are sitting there at Khe Sanh and building the big bunkers and doing some wire work but largely the bunker operation. And I think we were probably there 6 or 8 weeks. And during that time, a few �things happened. One thing that happened is, and we had been there maybe a couple of weeks. All was quiet, you know we are getting this place fortified. And then one morning, about 7 in the morning, we wake up to I am thinking, at the time I was thinking, 100-120 artillery rounds coming in. Not mortars but big stuff. And it was coming from up in the northwest of Khe Sanh. And Bob asked me yesterday, “Were they coming from Laos?” I said, “I don’t know whether it was coming from Laos or the DMZ, but it was toward the northwest.” And there were mountains going up there. So, you’re looking up at these mountains and there’s artillery up there firing. And so, we are all taking cover. And 15 minutes, it’s over. Didn’t happen again. So, quirky things like that, you know? (1:22:26) Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: And the other thing that I remember, because what—as I said, east-west runway. We are—the engineers, we are all on the south side. And we are not on the perimeter, we are at the inside of the perimeter, a little bit close to the airstrip. On the far side of the field, the 2nd of the 17th Cav, the air cav, they had their set up. And they had a sector of the perimeter. And they had their Cobra gunships in there and then they had built their revetments. It’s all tucked away nicely. And they had their perimeter and they had their ground troops. You know, they have not just the aviation people but they had their ground troops. About 2 in the morning, a fire fight erupts. And we realize that the cav across the runway are being attacked. And it was a very serious encounter. It went on for about an hour and a half to two hours. Pretty crack sapper unit. And it was just a pitched battle. And you know we are sitting over there and nothing else is happening, just right over there. And then something got into one of the storage things and stuff started cooking off and they had some of the Cobra rockets started…We are watching the fireworks. And this is going on and on and finally the cav repelled them. They’re done, they pull �out. A few bodies. And you know, daylight comes along and everybody is checking out and the cav had the perfect set up. These guys knew what they were doing. They had the defensive positions, they had the works. Everything. If the sappers—they couldn’t have picked a worse spot to come through. And the next morning, the sort of camp commander I guess, I don’t know really who he was or what he was, he did a tour of the perimeter of Khe Sanh. And down at the east end, we had about 150 yards of perimeter. There wasn’t a soul there. No one had been assigned a sector of the perimeter. No one. And we are thinking had the sappers done their homework and found that, it would have been different. But they picked the absolute best defended section of the perimeter and they got kicked. (1:25:23) Interviewer: Okay. Well, I suppose they knew where the helicopters were? Veteran: Yep, yeah the Cobras were over there. For sure. The rest of them, I am not sure where they were. Because there were a lot, a lot of just slicks to carry the people. But that was, yeah. So… Interviewer: Alright. Other things that kind of stand out for you from the time when you are commanding that company? Veteran: Not too many. Interviewer: Okay. Were you starting to turn bases over to the Vietnamese by this time? Veteran: Oh, we did have one other thing I remember, when I had the company. During the—it was during the monsoon. We were tasked, we went down to…It was, it might have been on QL1, but it was right around Hue. There was a bridge over a significant sized river there. And the monsoon was washing all of this debris down, and there was so much of it that it started hanging on the bridge abutments and started building up and the water started rising. And the concern �was it was going to get blocked and then the bridge was going to go out. So, we were down there with the equipment and we were fighting to keep the debris clear. And again, that’s one of those vague memories but I do remember that. (1:26:58) Interviewer: Now that’s near an area that would have had a civilian population in it, probably? Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: Okay. And did you see much of the Vietnamese people while you were there? Either civilians or military? Veteran: Very little. We had civilians who came on the base camp at Evans. I think I might have made a couple of trips, maybe to one of the villages nearby but generally not. I mean even Evans—we weren’t that secure, we would take RPGs and rockets. You know you think we are way back here at the back, you know but it didn’t matter. These weren’t NVA, and so you are very careful about what you’re doing and where you’re going. Interviewer: Right. Okay. And did you see much of the ARVNs or were they elsewhere? Because I guess they would have gone through Khe Sanh. Veteran: They were elsewhere. During this period of time, the set up starting from the DMZ. The Marines had pulled out, the Marines were back down to Da Nang. The ARVNs then filled in the upper slice and I am going from the coast to the lay ocean border, coming down from there. The ARVNs area of operation was that first slice, and then you moved down and we got the 3rd brigade…I think the 3rd brigade. (1:28:29) Interviewer: Well, that’s the brigade that you were mostly with, or at least that’s what— �Veteran: Yeah, that was at…I got a little confused talking with Bob last night about what— where the 2nd brigade was, 101st. I thought they were all south. I thought 3rd brigade was the uppermost, and so then we got that next slice. When Lam Son 719 kicked off, basically it was an extension of the ARVNs and some other units who were joined in. And we moved up to Khe Sanh to kind of backfill there and support. But we didn’t go up and take over the AO. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: The 1st of the 5th Mech was at Quang Tri, they were up there as well. I only—I never really saw them. I know that from reading the book, Keith Nolan’s book called Dewey Canyon II/Lam Son 719, that the 1st of the 5th Mech was running QL-9. They were running escorts for convoys, they were doing some maint—we weren’t maintaining roads. But they were up there and that was where they had been. Interviewer: Yeah. So, the Vietnamese were mostly elsewhere. Veteran: Right. Interviewer: Okay. And most of the area you were operating in didn’t have civilians in it at all? Veteran: Right. Interviewer: Yeah. Okay. Alright, now so you kind of get to the end now of your time. You have extended in Vietnam. You get kind of to the middle now of 1971. What happens next? (1:30:11) Veteran: I head back to Fort Belvoir. Orders from Belvoir: no stops along the way, just head on back. I was there for another 2 years. �Interviewer: Okay. And what was your job there? Veteran: I had 2 jobs, about a year for each one. One of them was—I was a—and I am a captain at this point, I had a…I was assigned to the student brigade there at the engineer school. The student brigade was AIT students. They finished their basic, they are coming through to do specialty engineer MOS’s for their…I was a company commander for one of the companies. And there were about—must have been about 6 companies. I mean basically we were holding companies while they are going to school. And then they are off. You know, so it’s a very transient thing. That was…Well, that wasn’t all that exciting. But once in a while, things happened there. I remember that one of my troops, one of my student troops, on payday, he approached another soldier somewhere on post. And robbed him. And it turned out that—well, within the week or so, the CID showed up at my company and said, “Sir, do you have a student in the company named Moore?” I said, “Yes, I do.” They said, “We want to talk to him.” Well, Private Moore was wearing his field jacket with his name on it when he robbed the guy. Didn’t take them long. So, off Private Moore goes. What do we got here? (1:32:20) Interviewer: What kind of recruits were you getting in the army at this point in time? Veteran: Kind of a mixed bag. Interviewer: Well, were there still draftees coming in? Veteran: They were still draft, yeah. We weren’t to the volunteer army quite yet. It’s interesting, I mean now look at the volunteer army today. And I got to look at the students. I mean, these were engineer students so I—you know, you sort of think, well maybe, a little bit brighter. Interviewer: Right. �Veteran: But not so—I remember in Vietnam, even in my infantry platoon, in both my platoons, I had college graduates. You know, I had what I considered a mix of society in the units. You know? You draft some, some volunteer, but you got a lot of people and not just the ones who are sort of you know, self-identifying that they want to go into the army or they were offered the army versus something worse. So, you know, that was a change. But I don’t think I was seeing that quite yet there at Belvoir. Interviewer: Yeah. Okay. And so, you have that assignment for your first year. Veteran: No, that was 6 months—oh yeah, yeah. That was a year, right. Interviewer: Okay. And then what do you mean…? Veteran: And then the other assignment was I was an instructor at the engineer school. And I believe it was—most of the classes were the second lieutenants coming in for their basic course. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: I don’t even remember what I was teaching. You know, I went through an instructor training class and off we go. And so, we’re, you know, training the young officers to go out and do their job. Interviewer: Okay. So, this is—and then, where exactly in Virginia is Fort Belvoir? Veteran: Fort Belvoir is just on the south edge of D.C., if you know where Mount Vernon, if you come down into Virginia. (1:34:28) Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. Veteran: Fort Belvoir is right across the—it’s just below Mount Vernon actually. �Interviewer: Alright. So, you’re in the D.C. area and now we have made it into the early ‘70s. And then we’re moving—we are Vietnam, we are doing Vietnamization, we are kind of pulling out of Vietnam but also the anti-war movement has become pretty powerful. The political move is very much against the war and so forth. To what extent did that make it into your world? Or, how aware were you of all that? Veteran: Oh, I was well aware of, you know those past couple—past 2 years, I was well aware of what was happening around the country. You know, you’re there, you read the paper every day, you watch television, whatever. But in the D.C. area, it was very heavily militarized. And so in terms of my personal space, you wouldn’t know it. You wouldn’t know what was going on because there was so much military support in the area for the military. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. So, now while you are there, you are getting into ’73. Are you thinking, okay is it time to get out? Or what are you looking for? Veteran: I was thinking…And I am trying to remember. Oh, I must have been involved in court martial maybe. I worked with some of the jag officers and I thought you know, I think what I will do is apply to law school through the jag program. See if I can do that. I got turned down for that. But I thought, you know what? I am going to do it anyway. I am going to resign—I resigned my commission, I applied. I got into University of Virginia Law School. Very fine law school. I resigned my commission, took a reserve commission and continued with that but went down to Charlottesville, Virginia, did my 3 years of law school. And then I moved up the valley a little bit to—well, it wasn’t actually the valley. Up to a place called Warrenton, Virginia. Joined a firm. It was small. Small town firm. And I thought, you know this—and I practiced for 2 years with the firm. There were 3—there were 4 of us attorneys. The 2, father and son who were the �main partners, and then there was another partner and then there was me. And I did that for 2 years and I said, “Not doing this.” (1:37:11) Interviewer: Well, what kind of law were you doing at that point? Veteran: It was just general practice. I handled a lot of stuff. And I thought no, I am not going to do this for the next 40 years. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So, I had been in touch with a fellow reservist who I knew who was also an engineer. And he worked for a small general contractor, building contractor. He said, “Joe, you ought to go up to D.C. You ought to get in with—there’s a big, big contractor up there, the George Hyman Construction Company. You ought to go up there and hook on with them as an assistant project manager. See what—you know, so you can go in and learn the nuts and bolts about contracting. You got the engineering degree.” But he said, “I work in a little company and we are small and we don’t have sort of specialists.” He said, “When I have a project, I am doing everything.” And he said, “That would be hard for you to come into a small company like ours and start from scratch. That probably wouldn’t work.” He said, “But go try it.” So, I wrote a letter to the personnel director up in Hyman and I sent in my resume and he gave me a call. And he said, “I got your resume. It’s pretty impressive.” But he said, “We just hired a general counsel recently, and we don’t need any, you know, another lawyer right now.” I said, “No, no, you got it wrong.” (1:38:54) Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: I said, “That’s not what I want.” He said, “Oh. Well, why don’t you come on up and talk to us?” So, I went up and I hired on as an assistant project manager. And Hyman was a fairly �large, you know, national contractor. And I started out on a small project there in D.C. It was an addition. It was a 6-story addition to the Republican National Congressional Committee Headquarters there on Capitol Hill. And so, you know, I sort of took over running the job as the, I was an ABN. But my boss was simply a mentor. He was running other jobs and he said, “I’ll look over your shoulder once in a while but you got it.” And so off we go. And I did that and then I, you know, continued on to bigger and better things. And then, I think—let’s see, how long have I been there? I think I was there 5 years. And I thought you know, there’s some things about the way the company runs that…You’re sort of a cog in the wheel. So, I went down to Charlotte, North Carolina. I interviewed with a guy down there. McDevens Street was another big contractor. And I went to work for them down there. And was a senior PM and vice president. They had a lot of vice presidents, no big deal. I was there for 2 years and I said you know, I don’t think this is going to go here. So, I went back. I returned to D.C. I spent a year consulting. I did some work for small contractors, in terms of…I mean, I had some expertise. I helped them out with things. And then after a year, I went back over to Hyman and said, “I’d like to come back to work, if that’s okay?” And they said, “Great!” So, I worked, total I worked for Hyman for…This was in, I went back in about ’86. About 8 years later, the company—Jim Clark owned Hyman. And he owned Omni Construction. Omni was an open shop company Clark had. Hyman was the union contractor. Originally, they had sort of separate markets because in D.C., you could work downtown if you were union. Open shop guys, you need to stay out by the beltway. But it reached the point where we were starting to chase the same jobs. The split between union and non-union was fading. And Cark said, “What are we doing here?” So, the two merged and became Clark Construction. The Clark Construction Group. And I stayed another 10 �years doing that. Running some big government work and various private work. I enjoyed it. I found—you know, I found my calling. (1:42:35) Interviewer: There you go! Veteran: I got the satisfaction out of building things and showing my kids, you know I worked on that job there. Interviewer: Alright. Well, aside from the whole engineering background experience thing, what do you think you took out of your time in the service? Or, how do you think that affected you? Veteran: Well, I think that along with the VMI experience, you know, kind of rolled into realizing that you’ve probably seen the worst you’re ever going to see. You know, things in front of you are never going to be that tough. You know, just the ability to pick what you’re going to do and know that you are going to accomplish it. Well. (1:43:27) Interviewer: Alright. Well, the whole thing makes for a pretty good story. And you have actually done a very good job of pulling it together. So, I’d just like to thank you for taking the time to share it today. Veteran: No problem. Well, I can tell you a little bit about what I am doing now. Interviewer: Sure. Veteran: Volunteering with veterans. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: I actually, I am involved with a project that’s done through a—Touchstone Discussion Project. They’re an educational based focus. They don’t teach classes, they teach teachers how to �train—how to conduct classes with their kids. This is K-12, college , this is around the world. They’re in a bunch of different countries. And it’s a discussion-based sort of program. And you get a group of people together. And you do multiple sessions. And it’s based on texts. And what we—they recently got a grant from NAH, through the Veteran’s History Project, to put on something. And so, the president of Touchstone’s wrote this program and it’s called Completing the Odyssey: The Journey Home. And it’s an 8-session program where we review the issues that some of us members face re-integrating into community. You know we started with, first of all, who goes and serves? That’s one session we talk about. But we each bring our experiences. And it’s all veterans. And we each bring our experiences. But a bigger part of it is, the skills that we are conveying, is critical thinking and active listening. And you know, I confessed to Howard, who is the guy who wrote this thing. I said, “Howard, 70 years of my life, I never did critical thinking. I never even thought about critical thinking.” And a lot of people come through and you know we sit down, and the idea—Howard is a professor at St. John’s College there in Annapolis. And he started this 35 years ago. He said, “You know, we’ve got the educational approach all wrong. Because we keep reinforcing to the students that there is an authority figure in that class and they are always looking to that authority figure for the right answer.” And he said, “There’s no right answer.” And so, you know, we have a couple of guys, couple of vets, who lead the program. I am one of the group leaders. And we sit down at the beginning. We read a text from—we have the ancient texts and the modern texts. We have Ulysses’—we got The Odyssey, we got stuff from The Odyssey. And Ulysses is trying to get home. And then we’ve got modern texts. We use Karl Marlaantes, wrote—we use one of his narratives about him coming home on the ship from Vietnam is what he should have done. You know he talked about—we get on the commercial airline, here the stewardess is handing out cokes and peanuts and he said, �“You know, this is just not right. Yesterday, we didn’t know if we were going to get out of the jungle and today, we are here?” And no time to decompress. You know, it should have been like World War 2: you ride the boat home for a week. Got to calm down with your buddies. And so we read a text, the group leader reads a text out loud, so there’s no homework. We just come in, we read a text and then I say, “Okay, everybody just jot down a question about tonight’s issue that you think would be worth the group talking about.” And we go and we read the questions out. And then if I am the group leader, I say, “Okay, let’s start with this question.” And I will throw out a question. And we spend 20 minutes talking about the question and the focus on so what is the experience of people joining the service? You know, and we have all got that experience of joining the service. And so we go through these things. You know, we talk about the absence and you know, what do you think about when you’re…And we talk about coming home and thinking about things have changed. Yeah, they have. In big ways. And not only have the people you have left behind changed, but you need to recognize that you have changed yourself. So, you know, we are getting people to think and talk who a lot of them haven’t done that before. And in the group, the group leaders are looking to pull the people in who are kind of—kind of sitting back. (1:48:21) Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: And we have done this—we have done this several times. And we just got another grant for it. And that has been a lot of my time. So anyway. Interviewer: Now, for you, I guess because you were still staying in the army and actually in a way, you had the really intense experiences in the field and then things kind of ratcheted down by degrees. And then you’re back, probably still in the army for a while �before you leave. You think that helped you become a civilian again or did you still have hurdles to get over? (1:48:53) Veteran: I’ll tell you my story in the Touchstone, in the discussion group. Because we talk about coming home and what do you think about? What are you picturing when you are coming home? Are you coming home to a place? Are you coming home to someone? Or what? And I shared with the group the first time through. I said, “Military family: my parents sent us off, my brother and I, to go do our military thing. No regrets. You know, small town in north Alabama. I never went back there. I visited my parents but there was never a thought. You know, a lot of guys grew up in a small town. They got lifelong friends, their buddies through high school, and they go off and they come back to right there. There was never a thought for me that I would come back to that place. And my parents wouldn’t expect me to. So, you know, I continue on my way. And then when I got out of the army, I am doing other things. I am going off to practice law and I am going up to D.C. to build—work.” I said, “I have finally realized where home is for me and what it is. I am in a bubble. And wherever I am, that’s my home. It’s wherever I am. I have no expectations I will be placed anywhere. And I have people. But” I said, “growing up as a military brat, there was nothing more heartbreaking than every 3 years, moving. And saying goodbye to your 7-year old buddies or your 9-year old buddies.” And I said, “I think because of that, I could tell over my lifetime that it was probably harder for me to form close relationships. I have my third wife.” And you know, I am sharing this with a group that that’s, you know, that’s my thoughts of homecoming. And there was never a place that I was going to be going back to but you know there were perhaps people and things. (1:51:25) Interviewer: Yeah. And of course, a lot of that isn’t even necessarily what the military did to you from your own career, it was more just how you grew up. �Veteran: I grew up that way, yeah. Interviewer: But in a way, it also kind of prepared you for a military career at the same time. Veteran: Yeah. I remember my parents’ best friends were people they knew in the service. You know, and with the SAC group I mean there were—there was a circuit there. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: And so—and we are getting ready to start, in September/October, it’s going to be another vets group. (1:52:03) Interviewer: Alright. I am glad we got a chance to add that here before we close that out. Veteran: Okay. Great. (1:52:09) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_SmithJ2318V Title A name given to the resource Smith, Joe (Interview transcript and video), 2019 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-07-27 Description An account of the resource Joe Smith was born on April 17th , 1946 in Topeka, Kansas. After graduating from high school, he attended Virginia Military Institute where he graduated with a degree in civil engineering in 1968 and joined the Army. He was then sent to Fort Bragg to join the 82nd Airborne Division, with which he became a platoon leader and General's aid. He later requested a transfer to Vietnam, where he was first stationed at Camp Eagle and saw combat at Firebase Ripcord. In 1971, Smith was stationed at Fort Belvior where he served out the rest of his tour and instructed the student brigade at the engineering school. He retired from the military in 1973 before pursuing a law degree at the University of Virginia Law School. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, Joe O. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/07c597b4f2e27d133503e2987c1c4300.m4v 11f86b0938de586e52917f4c67589930 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/466426f698a80ce7b0c898ed0ec4f309.pdf 4b2ab14fa3ce9ad8f8c3196ac6ff410f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Vietnam War John Smith Length: 123 Minutes Pre-Enlistment Born in Fredericktown Missouri in 1946 (0:20) Grew up in Southeast Missouri, in the town of Mable Hill (0:27) Father was shoe factory supervisor, eventually became plant manager (0:33) Mother was a part time factory worker (0:47) Had a brother and a sister, he was the oldest sibling (0:51) Went to High School in Bollinger County until junior year, when the factory closed, and family moved to Tennessee (1:04) Graduated from High School in Springfield Tennessee, in 1964 (1:23) He went to college at Austin Peay State University 25 miles away at Clarkston for one year (1:36) ROTC and Enlistment His father’s job moved and his family moved to Cookeville Tennessee and he transferred to Tennessee tech (01:51) He got involved in the military ROTC there (1:57) He had to do ROTC for the first two years (2:15) Father was supportive of becoming an officer, because he was World War II vet (2:21) Took double the ROTC classes to catch up to his class level (2:54) He was very aware of what was happening in Vietnam, some of his instructors had severed there (3:30) There was communication between grads in Vietnam and the ROTC and some trained with them (3:49) Should have graduated in 1968 and did met the ROTC requirements (4:16) �Received a distinguished military student designation. (4:25) Left Tennessee Tech after he fell behind, in a tax class that he could not retake until the next year (5:00) He did not want to wait to join the Army (5:08) Got a reserve commission because he needed a college degree for a regular commission (5:23) Training at IOBC He went to IOBC (infantry officer basic course) in Fort Benning (5:54) He could choose from many options (5:58) He choose to be an infantry officer in Southeast Asia (Vietnam) on his dream sheet (6:09) He felt that his training was leading him to go to Vietnam and he wanted to go (6:21) Started IOBC on June 9th 1969 (6:37) Was primarily classroom work with some outside work, called practical exercises, designed to teach you skills needed to be an officer (7:01) Such as map reading, calling in artillery, and leadership qualities (7:04) ROTC was focused on war with USSR in Europe, IOBC was focused on Vietnam War (7:39) Many of the trainers had been in Vietnam (8:00) Videos and diagrams from real battles in Vietnam were used frequently (8:22) Much of the training was based the experience of the instructors in Vietnam (8:34) All of the training was focused in Vietnam because everyone knew they would be sent there, and most were (8:41) His class was the class of 1969, 1369 was the designation (9:13) In his training class around 50% were National Guard Lieutenants (9:29) A few regular army, mostly reservist (9:58) Military intelligence officers had to go through the training, before they went to MI school (10:11) The Guardsmen went back home after training (10:15) They were somewhat disliked, but he could not remember any fights breaking out (10:20) West Pointers were in a different training class (11:18) Half a dozen enlisted who had become officers, they were 5 or 6 years older (11:50) More physically demanding than ROTC (12:10) �He joined Tech Rangers, which did PT and other extra training (12:32) He went to some camp between junior and senior year that was similar to Basic Training for enlisted (12:48) In ROTC did some marching between the quads but did road marches, took buses to and from training sites (13:18) So it was not as physically demanding (13:28) Training at Fort Riley and Jungle School He did not go to specialized training, he went straight to Fort Riley Kansas where he became a platoon leader in the 24st Infantry division (13:39) He was a platoon leader in the mechanized infantry for 6 months (13:48) He felt like he did know what he was doing at the start (14:19) Being able to do real training with his platoon, such as map reading, helped build up his confidence in his leadership (15:10) Everyone in his platoon had served in the war (15:42) It was common for injured troops to be reassign to these training platoons (15:55) Every six months old Lieutenants left, and new ones arrived (16:19) It was sobering to read that some of the Lieutenants he trained with were killed in Vietnam, while he was still in training (16:52) The troops talked about Vietnam, was not a secret (17:10) Some of the troops felt they were to dumb to do anything else, but he did not feel that way (17:30) Many soldiers under his command were proud of being soldiers (17:55) Many of the enlisted did not want to be there, so had a negative attitude (18:10) Not really any advice on how to an effective officer (18:33) The enlisted reflect the view of America, thinking that the war was screwed up and that the war should end (18:46) Did not get much encouragement from the enlisted (19:39) While some had issues, most did there did their jobs well despite being draftees (19:54) There was not a lot of back talk (20:24) Some were screw ups (20:30) Most were very good (20:45) �Was temporarily part of the 1st Division (21:28) The biggest difference between the States and Vietnam was that in Vietnam every job seemed important, particularly planning (S-4) and operations (S-3) (21:51) He received his orders in February of 1970 (22:22) He had got to home for about thirty days in March (22: 39) Family had moved to Kentucky and he had married a girl in Kentucky (22:45) He went to jungle school in Panama (23:02) Jungle was fun sometimes (23:13) Jungle school was important because it helped him learn how to move through the jungle (24:32) Nice climate and firs time he had been outside of the United States (23:34) The people did not speak English and learning to commutate with them was good training for Vietnam (23:50 Most of the instructors were Hispanic and sometimes hard to understanding (24:10) Was pretty relevant to Vietnam (20:41) He also learned how to use maps in the jungle and how to cross streams (24:49) Counted towards his year overseas (25:01) Leaving the States and Arriving in Vietnam He returned to the States at Charleston, South Carolina, had five days to get to San Francisco, and spent two days at home (25:18) Had a great time at home, felt better then when he left the US the first time (25:30) Did not know he was going to Jungle school (25:48) His father cried at the airport which made him uncomfortable (25:25) This time they were all smiles (26:00) He felt like he was going to make it (26:06) Was in San Francisco for maybe two days (26:17) Arrived at night, and thought the city looked like the Rice-a-Roni commercial (26:59) He was bought drinks by the locals in San Francisco, which surprised him (27:00) They were very supportive of him (27:20) The anti-war movement was active (27:31) �One of the captains he served with at Fort Riley was shot an anti-war rally (28:18 Flew on civilian plane and it was the longest flight of his life (28:22) From San Francisco he flew to Alaska, than to Japan, and the to Vietnam (28:34) Landed in Bien Hoa, was processed there (28:36) Got a dream sheet to pick his assignment He was sent to the 101st after three days in the replacement depot, (29:33) Long Binh was vary stateside like, it was the first time he saw slot machines (29:39) Was flown to the 101st by C-130 (30:05) The further north you went the worse the facilities got (30:33) They could assigned all over, his friend was assigned to the Cambodian border (31:07) He had to go Screaming Eagle training center before he knew what unit in 101st he would be assigned to (31:14) The training was focused on teaching the new soldiers how the 101st operated (31:20) Everyone trained together including officers and enlisted (31:31) They were trained to look out for traps, refresher training, and how to move through the jungle (31:53) They did a road march, but no training patrol bit most the training was focused more on technique (32:05) The training ended after five days and he was assigned to D company 1st Battalion, 506th regiment (32:45) Camp Evans was their base camp (32:57) Platoon Commander When he and Lt. Thompson came they met with the XO and were taken to 3rd Brigade's officers club for the briefing (33:13) The XO said that they were going to be assigned to the best company commander in the battalion (33:47) He found out that there were no other officers at the meeting because they had all been killed (34:01) They joined the company in late May of 1970, in early May the platoon had taken heavy losses at an abandoned fire base called Maureen (34:43) The platoon leader had been killed (34:45) �When he arrived they were a few days from stand down, 2nd Platoon had loss so many men that it was combined with 1st and 3rd platoons (35:14) The commanding officer, Captain Don Workman (nicknamed Ranger), wanted to reorganized the company after stand down. (35:31) After the men came back for the stand down he able to be introduced to the (35:45) He was made the pay officer, and had to roster everyone and pay them in script (36:28) He came across a guy named Dean Finch who was from Fredericktown Missouri which was near where John Smith was born (35:56) He became friends with Finch, who it turned out was in 2nd Platoon (37:12) The stand down gave the company time to get cleaned up, eat decent food, change clothes, and other things they could not do in the field (37:45) They did some training, including zeroing the weapons (37:50) It was mostly a time of rest and realization for the men in the field (38:02) They started to get replacements but not very many, they were understrength when they went to relive another company that was due for R and R, though they were able to return having three platoons (38:30) 1st Platoon guarded the western flank of [Firebase] Ripcord while 2nd and 3rd patrolled, 2nd was about 20-30 men at the time (38:49) Some of the men who were left from the original 2nd platoon wanted to transfer because it was consider a hard luck platoon (39:40) They had been mauled before Maureen (39:11) This lead to shifting of personnel, leading to much of 2nd platoon being new (39:26) In the Field When they flew out of Ripcord, he could not see much because they were in a Chinook, which had no windows (40:02) They did not have any time to get acquainted with area around Firebase Ripcord, though he did get a medic (40:19) He was impressed by how steep the hill that Ripcord was on and which made him think the base could not be take. (40:38) By this time it was June and 2nd platoon began its patrol of the area around Ripcord (40:59) During this time they made no contact with the NVA, they found abandon bunkers but nothing else (41:11) �They were on patrol for one week (41:18) It was good practice for Smith to lead the men without an attacks, helped him get used to leading in the field (41:33) It was physically demanding to patrol in the field for the first, his pack weighed a third as much as he did (41:47) He spent most of his time walking up and down hills (42:20) It gave him time to talk to Ranger, who instilled trust in the unit, though some though he was too gun ho. He was not a joker, he did care about his men. (43:05) 2nd and 3rd platoon operated as one unit, while 1st platoon was operating independently (43:45) Ranger spent his time with the 2nd and 3rd platoons (43:48) He had a platoon Sergeant who was serving on a second tour (44:12) His name was Bustamonte, who was able to help Smith was his first patrol 44:23 He was very calm and was Puerto Rican, spoke with an accent (44:44) Everyone else was relatively new (44:59) They were all kids, mostly draftees (45:20) They were trained through NCO school, but were not experience (46:13 Bustamonte was with them for only two weeks, because he was supposed be with the 4th Division but was reassigned (46:13) After that it was Smith and some inexperienced NCOs (46:47) The most experienced had been there for a month (47:00) Firebase Catherine After leaving Ripcord, they were sent to Firebase Katherine, as the Company was rebuilt (47:26) 2nd platoon were there for about month, managing security, they would get new men every day one or two at a time (47;46) They did repair on the barbed wire outside the base, and tried to improve the defenses (48:03) Did some local patrolling and ambushing (48:16) Ranger grew concerned they were losing their edge (48:21) The troops liked firebase duty, because you had prepared defense against attacks, which you often did not in the field (48:49) They also sleep and ate better, had shelter from the rain. In the field it was hard to sleep in the rain. (49:02) �Any kind of shelter was too dangerous because it could give their position away (49:22) Ranger and Smith wanted to get into the field (49:40) On the firebase there was no drug use to his knowledge, but it was common in the rear (50:21) One of the main reasons that it was too dangerous (50:51) Katherine was some minor attacks, mostly mortar attacked (51:24) One night there was huge explosion, and two guys went missing, still unknown what happened (51:49) They were found dead the next morning, possibilities including sabotage attack or accident, no real proof 52:20 They moved off the firebase shortly after July the 4th , on July 1st ripcord came under a major attack, (53:32) Ranger told them Ripcord came under attack during the normal meeting, Smith did not think much about it (53:53) However each every day the attack continued, which surprised Smith (54:12) Return to Firebase Ripcord They were then moved south of Ripcord (54:32) They patrolled the jungle, reconnaissance in force, which made up most of the action in Vietnam (54:48) That was the opposite of what he envisioned, he thought they would be attacking the enemy at a known position (54:59) He was told how things would be at fort Riley, but it did not sink in (55;26) They were on patrol for about a week (55:40) They still made no contact, which was good because they need the training for all of the new men in the unit (56:03) He felt fortunate that they had not be attacked, he did not want to look for trouble but to ready for trouble went it happened (56:29) They assembled back at Highway 1, after which they returned to Camp Evans, where they were told they were going to be sent to Ripcord (56:51) It was rainy when they arrived at Camp Evans, which delayed their move to Ripcord for a day (57:33) They got the night off, Smith ran the bunker line as favor for friend (57:51) Everyone else had a big party, known as the last supper (58:08) �The 3rd Platoon leader took them into his office told them that they were going to Ripcord where they would see combat (58:45) Smith told his Platoon Sergeant to get the platoon ready, mentally and physically (59:17) Much of combat is mental. You can do everything right and still end up in bad place (59:54) The next day they were dropped off in an LZ (60:21) It was the 17 or 18 of July (60:31) They found bandages and boots around the LZ, showing that something bad had happened (60:58) They stayed closer together then usual, but were able move out without much trouble (61:30) By night they were looking for a defensive perimeter (61:44) After the perimeter was set up they sent out patrols (61:50) The first two or three days nothing happened, they just patrolled looking out for an ambush (62:19) They found more bunkers, but no Vietnamese (62:54) They set up camp on hill, they had to go investigate a cave that was in the hill (63:21) He went into the cave because he did not want to send anyone else, but there was nothing in the cave (63:29) That was the last night they spent patrolling that area, the next day they were moved to a new area (63:23) They restocked got to the LZ and got ready to leave for the new area (64:41) They got mail and Smith found out that his wife was pregnant with their first son (64:54) Fight around the LZ As they approached the LZ in helicopters, the door gunner open fire, because the LZ was hot (66:41) Smith felt vary exposed on the helicopter (66:23) They had to jump of the helicopter, as they hovered five or six feet off the ground, so they hit the ground hard (67:40) This made him disoriented when he hit the ground (67:45) He remembered that his Dad begged him not to go into the infantry, and he thought that he was going to be killed (68:10) But he came to his sense and was able to secure the LZ, the fire on them stopped (68:23) �AS the 3rd Platoon arrived they took more fire, but he could tell how heavy the fire was (69:03) The helicopter his platoon sergeant was on, had to turn around after being damaged, so he arrived with 3rd platoon (69:15) They were getting organized to take nearby high lands when, three NVA walked into their position and were killed by heavy fire (70:25) It was the first time he saw an enemy killed (70:30) He had a lack of feeling, which he thought was strange (70:36) After that it quieted down, and they spent the rest of the day getting organized (70:58) He then led a patrol in the direction that NVA came from, they found freshly moved dirt, but no NVA (71:31) They then secured the hill for 2nd and 3rd platoons, while 1st platoon on the other side of the LZ (72:18) He did not know much what was happening around 1st Platoon, and they were digging in to set up their base (72:45) Around 4 o’clock they heard 1st platoon come under attack, Ranger was nearby so he heard that they were taking causalities (73:10) He was expecting to be sent to reinforced but was sent to secure the LZ so they could land Medevacs (73:45) They had a big LZ, so they could land 2 helicopters, and it was inside the saddle of the LZ making it defensible (74:12) 1st Platoon was withdrawn to the north Hill, with 2nd and 3rd, and Smith saw Lt Thompson who he trained with, who had been wounded (74:34) The whole platoon seemed shocked (74:48) Smith could tell that they had been in harrowing position, and Thompson told him that they had left men behind on the hill (75:03) They went back up the north hill, and Smith was surprised that sleep came easily (75:30) He was so tired that he had hard time staying awake during his shift to stand guard (75:47) They saw enemy movement so Ranger told the medevacs to back off (76:20) Everybody was on edge, but nothing happened ( 76:32) He knew the next day they would have to find the bodies left behind, which they both dreaded and felt obligated to do (77:26) He knew that they were going to have to fight to get there (77:40) �That morning he heard mortar fire, that was moving closer, Ranger tried to call in counter battery fire and Smith told the men to get into the fox holes. (78:20) He was expecting only some light fire, but they took very heavy fire, probably because NVA had an observer watching them (79:41) They had few dead, but many wounded (79:48) Smith was wounded, and the platoon medic was dead, Ranger decide they should pull back to the LZ (80:55) They were getting ready to evacuate the wounded, there was short fight when patrol was sent to retrieve an abandon machine gun but no losses (81:41) They were waiting for medevacs, but they came under attack again, one of the medevacs were shoot down over the LZ (82:31) During came under sporadic attack, but were supported by artily and fighters, so they held there position (83:39) They had lost 25-30 men since being dropped off (83 52) Withdrawal They were exhausted, so they stayed in the same spot, which they were not supposed to do, but there was nowhere else to go (84:28) At this point his morale hit the lowest point because he thought that they were going to get hit hard, but they were withdrawn (85:25) He thought that his unit got a bad rap in Nolan’s book, because they did not quit (85:42) Smith had been wounded in the lower back but could still get around, the wound was minor but he ended up spending 3 weeks in the hospital (86:34) It felt like got hot a baseball, but later on in hurt much more (87:11) They stayed the day, they felt had taken a lot fighting during the two days (87:56) Reinforcements came the same route they did, came from hot LZ but light losses. (88;28) Ranger and Rollison, the new company's [D/2/506] CO, talked and then the perimeter was reinforced (89:27) There was no more heavy fighting (89 33) They were waiting to be extracted, his mind was on the dead left behind, Ranger said to for Smith to get out on the first bird (90:42) He got on the helicopter fine, but another one had shot down and the LZ had to take off due to debris (90:59) �The fourth helicopter was shot down and crashed on the LZ, and killed Ranger (91:34) He founded out how latter when he talked to the helicopter crew (92:48) The First Sergeant told Smith that Ranger did not make it (93:10) Smith told his unit, and then went to get checked out, and was put under hospital care (94:18) He was stripped completely naked, they cut through his uniform (94:35) He was sent to the rear area to recuperate for three weeks (95:34) In the Rear He had find his own transportation to his unit, got on plan to Phu Bai processing center, had to hitchhike to Camp Evans (96:36) The unit though he had been sent back to the States, he stayed with the company for two months, they were moved many different areas (97:53) He got pulled the rear after collapsing, he was moved to being the property book officer, he was in charge keep track of their possessions and doing inventory (98:33) He was part of a security platoon in the rear area where he would stand guard in the rear area (100:17) He had all the problem men from the battalion, and was threatened more than once (100:38) His son was born in early March ( 100:52) He became frustrated with his assignment, and was sent back to the field as part of convoy (101:05) They came around a corner and ran into another group that had been ambushed (101:28) The he replaced an officer who had been wounded when his helicopter had been shot down (102:56) He lived on the firebase, which was safer than in the field (103:23) His job was coordinate air support and was part of the planning for air strikes (104:17) It was not a bad job, but he never got used to the job (104:44) He marked enemy location with White Phosphorous grenades, they then napalmed the spot, which was questionable effectiveness (105: 45) There was problem with drugs, particularly marijuana and heroin, overdoses were common (107:15) He had arrested men for having drugs (107:40) Racial issues were not uncommon, that reflective of problems in the US (108:08) �He had been involved in possible riot suppression back into the US (108:31) They had a party, were a fight had happened leading to a racial fight, while lead to the party being broke up (110:38) There was a lot problems, but he did not see much of it Vietnam, (111:50) He tried reason with men to stop the fights (112:28) Army was deeply divided, though they were not problems in the field, more problems in the rear area (113:48) Return to the US His tour came to end in late spring of 1971 (114:45) He flew back to Kentucky. In his uniform, and did have any problems (115:14 After returning to the US he was reassigned to Fort Campbell, which was near where he went to high school. (115:28) He worked in train center and was promoted to Captain, and stayed there until April of 72 when it was shut down (115:47) It was basic training center, and he went through three training cycles, was there as they began transition volunteer army (117:58) Filled out many reports, was part changing style of basic training away from hazing (118:55) Some all the drill sergeants were Vietnam veterans, but most were not combat veterans (119:32 He was reassign 101st when it came back in April before left army in June, he was involved in recruiting to rebuild the units (121:34) After he left the Army he sold insurance for year did not make money, went work for a brick company, where he stayed (122:34) Was in the reserves but he did not like it, was too much training (122:55) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_SmithJ1681V Title A name given to the resource Smith, John (Interview outline and video), 2014 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-10-10 Description An account of the resource John Smith was born in 1946 in Fredericktown Missouri, he later moved to Tennessee. He joined the ROTC in college, then joined the Army in 1969. He trained at the IOBC at Fort Benning, then at Fort Reilly. He served with the D Company, 1st Battalion, 506th Regiment of the 101st Airborne Division, as platoon leader of 2nd platoon, and was involved in the fighting in early July 1970 around Firebase Ripcord. After he was wounded he served as the properties officer, later air coordinator. After returning to the US he was involved in the training base at Fort Campbell, before leaving the Army in June of 1972. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, John Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/x-m4v application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b1149edba19926cfacd2dd72fe0686e0.mp4 ae0aa6b54db8c78fb606f16f932dde25 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b174a25de53ed2eab030c41bbe91320c.pdf a34db2c8b2e12c97fc3097d3e1beec52 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project War/Era: WWII Era Name: Mabelle "Barry" Vincent Smith Interviewer: Elaine Schneider Interview Length: (00:52:05:00) Early Life (00:00:20:00)  Smith was born in Syracuse, New York on April 23rd, 1920. (00:00:22:00)  Smith had two brothers, both of whom were pilots in World War I. (00:00:28:00)  Smith’s mother was a full- time housewife and her father worked in an office until the Great Depression caused him to lose his job. (00:00:50:00) o The family moved to Chittenango, New York where Smith’s father began a new job as a milk deliverer. (00:01:05:00)  Smith attended school in Chittenango until she was a freshman in High School until her family relocated again, this time to Houston, Texas. (00:01:30:00) o She was sad to leave her home in Chittenango, which was a farmhouse with a barn on 4 acres of land. The family’s self- sufficient farming lifestyle made it so that “the depression didn’t affect us too much”. (00:01:50:00) o The family moved to Houston to search for a better work opportunity for Smith’s father, but he didn’t find anything so they returned to Chittenango. (00:02:20:00)  Smith graduated from Central High School in Syracuse. (00:02:45:00)  Within a year of graduating high school, Smith got an office job at a telephone company. She remained there for two and a half years. (00:03:00:00) Training (00:03:15:00)  Smith’s brother was a pilot in the Air Force prior to the attacks on Pearl Harbor in 1942 and strongly encouraged his sister to join. (00:03:38:00) o Her brother wrote to her while deployed and told her that a woman needed 35 hours of flying time to be considered by the Air Force. Smith immediately began making phone calls to figure out who could teach her to fly. (00:03:50:00)  Smith received flying instruction from Amboy Airport, located in Syracuse. She was able to fund her own lessons because she had a steady job. (00:03:50:00)  Smith flew two- seater aircraft during her training. (00:05:00:00)  After logging 8 hours of flying time, she went to Canastota, New York to seek further flying instruction. (00:05:05:00)  Smith had to hitchhike or walk to all of her flying lessons because she had no personal mode of transportation. (00:05:30:00)  Smith was offered a job testing radar by flying around for 2-3 hour periods. This was a dual- benefit for her because she was able to get her last 15 hours of flying time in and she was getting paid. (00:05:45:00)  Smith says that the demand for women pilots can be explained by the lessened availability of men who were being drafted and sent overseas. Being a pilot required more training and American men simply did not have time for that. (00:08:05:00) �   25,000 women were interviewed by the United States Air Force for piloting positions. Only 1,830 were interviewed and 1,074 actually became pilots. These women came to be known as the Women’s Air Force Service Pilots or “WASP”. (00:08:30:00) o Once accepted, the women had to log 30 hours in each of three planes: “The Stearman”, the BT- 13 Valiant, and the AT-6 Texan. (00:09:00:00) o Smith was sent to Avenger Field, located in Sweetwater, Texas. (00:09:30:00) Smith was asked to wear a white shirt and khaki pants when required to “dress- up”. Other than such occasions, members of WASP did not have an official uniform. This was so because up until that point in time, only men had been in the Air Force and there was no dress code created for women. (00:09:35:00) There were three types of training that members of WASP received: primary, basic, and advanced. (00:10:45:00) o Smith used the Stearman and various other small airplanes in both solo and dual flying lessons. This comprised her “primary training” and her “basic training”. (00:11:00:00) o After flying the smaller planes, Smith was introduced to the AT-6 jets. She was told that “if you can fly an AT-6, you can fly any plane”. This was her “basic training”. (00:12:00:00) o Intertwined in the primary, basic, and advanced training Smith received calisthenics as well. Each day she awoke at 6 A.M. and completed 4 hours of flight training, 1 hour of exercise, and 1 hour of marching along with three scheduled meals. (00:13:10:00) Active WASP Membership (00:14:10:00)  After Smith got her “wings” at Avenger Field, she traveled to Waco, Texas. (00:14:00:00) o All WASP members were given official winter and summer uniforms made by Bergdorf Goodman after getting their “wings”. (00:14:45:00) o She was stationed at Lackland Army Air Field as a test pilot for her first assignment. This base was home to hundreds of male cadets who were learning to fly in combat. Smith was in charge of test- driving Beechcraft AT-10 Wichita planes. (00:15:45:00) o The test- drives started with a 3- hour ride followed by a meeting with the mechanics for additional input on the specific plane’s functionality. (00:18:10:00)  Smith remembers that the barracks at Lackland were very nice. Each WASP had her own room within the barracks, which were shared with the army nurses. (00:18:48:00)  Smith also had to test UC-78’s, which were twin- engine advanced trainer aircrafts. Many of these aircraft were thought to be obsolete when they were brought to Lackland. (00:20:40:00)  There were 38 WASPS killed during the two years and two months that WASP was part of the Army Air Corps. Smith was a WASP for one year. (00:21:48:00) o Although she only spent a very short time as a WASP, Smith wanted to spend her entire life there. (00:23:22:00) WASP Retirement (00:23:30:00)  WASP was disbanded on December 20th, 1944. (00:23:38:00) �         On December 19th, 1944- the day before WASP was disbanded- Smith was asked to fly to Columbus, Ohio as Sergeant right away. (00:24:41:00) o Smith stopped in Memphis, Tennessee to get fuel and arrived in Columbus at 9 or 10 P.M. (00:25:00:00) o She slept overnight in the plane and then went to the operations office first thing the next morning. A young man was waiting to be taken to Memphis and it was Smith’s duty to escort him there. (00:25:20:00) Smith arrived again in Memphis but was not permitted to retreat back to Texas until the plane she was flying had a 100- mile check. She was stuck there for three days, until December 23rd. (00:26:10:00) o Because WASP was disbanded on the 20th, Smith was the last one to return home. (00:26:40:00) Smith had trouble looking for a job after WASP was disaffiliated because women weren’t typically hired for the jobs that she most wanted to do, such as commercial piloting or flying instruction. (00:28:20:00) Smith decided to take a bus to Sebring, Florida to spend some time on her mother’s cattle ranch while she tried to make the next life decision. (00:28:30:00) o She reunited with Lester; a Marine that she met when she was working in Texas. He was permitted a 10- day leave and spent it with her in Florida He asked Smith to marry him before he returned to service. (00:28::00) After Lester returned to duty, Smith went back to her hometown of Chittenango. (00:31:11:00) o On her way back, she decided to stop in Williamsburg, Virginia to see her fiance, who was stationed there. When she got off the bus, Lester was waiting for her. The couple decided to marry right then and there instead of waiting for his retirement. They went to the local Presbyterian Church and made their marriage official. (00:31:25:00) Smith decided to stay in Virginia and seek work there. She was able to get a job at a local air base as a secretary. (00:33:05:00) o Each day, she met with her husband at 5:00 P.M. at the local USO and they walked together to the room that they were renting out of a nearby house. (00:33:20:00) In July of 1945, Smith was forced to move back Syracuse because her husband had to start training to invade Japan. (00:33:50:00) o She got a job at a local jewelry store. (00:33:57:00) Lester finally came home on September 1st, 1945. (00:34:12:00) o His uncle worked for a typewriter company and he decided that he would take two months off before starting work. (00:34:30:00) o Les and Smith spent the two- month vacation at Smith’s family ranch. (00:34:43:00) When Smith and Lester returned home, they lived in Lester’s family home. (00:37:10:00) o The couple remained in Chittenango for 6 years and had two children. (00:37:20:00) o Lester was later transferred to Indianapolis, Indiana as branch manager of his uncle’s typewriter company. (00:37:22:00) �      o Later, the couple had another two children. They stayed in Indianapolis from 1950 to 1985, until Lester finally retired. (00:37:30:00) After Lester retired, the family moved down to Smith’s mother’s ranch again. (00:37:42:00) One of their children went into the 101st Airborne Division in the Korean War, another became a Pan Am flight attendant, another went to Medical School in Indiana for nursing, and another went to Purdue to become a pilot and eventually went into the Air Force. (00:38:38:00) In 1977, Smith was officially recognized as a veteran of the United States Air Force. (00:41:46:00) Smith received the Congressional Gold Medal for her participation in WASP. (00:42:00:00) Smith is often invited to air shows and to give speeches in light of her accomplishments. (00:49:00:00) Smith notes that being a WASP was “the most wonderful experience a woman could have”. (00:51:02:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SmithM1560V Title A name given to the resource Smith, Mabelle Vincent (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, Mabelle Vincent Description An account of the resource Mabelle "Barry" Vincent Smith was born in Syracuse, New York in 1920. Her two older brothers were pilots during World War I, and encouraged her to learn to fly. She took flying lessons, and then enlisted in the WASP program during World War II, primarily as a flight instructor at Lackland Army Air Force base in San Antonio, and served with it for a year until it disbanded late in 1944. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Snyder, Elaine (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Forces Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-04-10 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5c08ccce7b9db397fae67c20ad10861f.mp4 2035b544ee8ae297d017966dd084898a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8b5423e948a47f625bee283fe5e6dc32.pdf 02967b0f8cd7e8cd5d1ee5fd6b8d31a0 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of Interviewee: Richard LaVern Smith Name of War: Other veterans & civilians Length of Interview: (00:09:23) Interview Notes Pre-Enlistment -Richard Smith, born in Hilliards, MI (0:20) -Enlisted just after high school (0:40) - Decided to in to the Army, did not think about any other branch of service (1:00) - Served between the Korean and Vietnam wars (3:15) Training - Fort Leonard Wood, MO by train (1:30) Issued clothes, took tests (1:40) Then went to basic training at Fort Leonard Wood, as well (1:55) Lots of hiking and discipline, learned hand to hand combat and how to shoot a rifle (2:15) Trained in the motor pool, did a lot of driving and mechanical work (2:50) Enlistment - Stationed at Fort Leonard Wood MO; Fort Eustis, VA; and a fort in Kansas (3:30) Mostly did mechanical work and drove troops to their various activities (3:45) Was released from the service in 1957, was placed into Active Reserves for four years (4:15) Married while in Active reserves (5:30) Made many friends in the Army, but did not keep up with them after discharged (5:50) Kept in contact with loved ones with letters (6:15) Post-Enlisment - Saw a lot of demonstrators demonstrating against the Vietnam war (5:00) - Everyone should support the troops, even if they don’t support the reason they are in service (7:00) - Young people should learn discipline, and can get that and education in the military (7:30) - Learned good work habits in the military, and that stayed with Richard throughout his life (8:55) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SmithR Title A name given to the resource Smith, Richard LaVern (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, Richard LaVern Description An account of the resource Richard Smith enlisted in the United States Army shortly after he graduated from high school. He served in the motor pool at various bases throughout the United States, including Fort Leonard Wood in Missouri and Fort Eustis in Virginia. Upon his release from the Army in 1957, he continued his service by way of the active reserves until he was released from that service. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Oatmen, Brad A. (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-05-30 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f371a8b11ad41e78562ccdc021d8fc8b.jpg 0a0d8958d7551dac279eece6cfdafc80 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SmithRichardNorton Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Smith, Richard Norton Description An account of the resource Richard Norton Smith, History Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/61818fd21d9988cc62f08241f945fcdc.jpg feadebbd3de8497aee210d726ed8ab2b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SmithRita Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Smith, Rita Description An account of the resource Rita Smith Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1564d12e7d201f5728498988bf27d72f.jpg 340ba62eef3f8fb79c2b941517907567 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SmithTracy Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Smith, Tracy Description An account of the resource Tracy Smith Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3e57527ff82a4fbc80a5c65a405ca23f.mp4 b45be928e1c3d123ebdff4b23dc381ee https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5de7522d2483383b7f5131f23f3e2aaa.pdf 91338b10feb636bb25130316f27e2455 PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW ZENA SMITH Born: 1926 in Birmingham, England Resides: Grand Rapids, Michigan Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project Transcribed by: Claire Herhold, January 14, 2013 Interviewer: Can you start with some background on yourself? To begin with, where and when were you born? Well, I was born in 1926 in Birmingham, England and I was just thirteen years of age when the war started in 1939. Interviewer: At this time, what did your family do for a living? My father was a licensed victualler. Now that is a big term that he ran a public house, a big term for cook. Mother helped him, and we lived there…I lived there from the time I was about eight until I got married at nineteen. 1:03 Interviewer: And how many children were in the family? I have one sister and one brother, yes. I’m the only one left of the family. Interviewer: At that time, did your father make a good enough living to be able to keep his business and so you had enough food and all that kind of thing? Yes, yes, he was paid by a brewery, a big brewery in England, had several pubs. Interviewer: Before the war actually started, before Hitler invades Poland, you’re pretty young. Were you paying any attention to the news of the world? Had you heard about Germany or the Nazis? Of course, of course, yes. We knew that…I remember when our Prime Minister of the time was Neville Chamberlain. 2:01 He was a Birmingham man, and he went over to talk to Hitler. This was the year before. Well, we knew war was on the horizon and when he came back, I always �remember his speech. In his speech he said, “out of the nettle, we have plucked the nettle danger.” And still being in school, we had to write an essay on that. That’s how I remember. Interviewer: Do you remember what the popular reaction to that was? Or your parents’ reaction? No, we knew it was just a time to prepare. Interviewer: So he said he had established peace in our time, but you didn’t believe him? No one did. No, we started, you know, preparing for war. 3:01 Interviewer: Once war actually started, did that change at all the way you were living or what people in your community were doing? Certainly, yes, because as soon as the war started, I’m from Birmingham, which is very industrial, and we got the first raids, so naturally everything changed. We were all issued a gas mask and had to carry it at all times, and we all got an ID number. I still remember mine, QBDE584. Now, the 4 was because I was the fourth one in the family. Do you remember your ID number, Dora? Dora, offscreen: Yes, WEKN4…I can’t remember, I’ve got it written down. 4:06 Interviewer: Did you have a lot of men from the community now joining the military and leaving, or were a lot of the men already? Yes, you know, they called them up right away, the eligible ones. Because I was thirteen at the time and still in school, I do remember that I had a friend who had an auntie in Canada and she offered to take her niece and her friend for the duration of the war. Well, I was going to be evacuated to Canada. However, just before we went to go, the Germans torpedoed a hospital ship, and they weren’t supposed to, so that put an end to that, you know. 5:02 That was something. �Interviewer: Do you remember following the news at the beginning of the war? Because the Germans go into Norway and then they go into France and Belgium and the Netherlands, then the British are involved. They didn’t hold out like we did. Interviewer: As General de Gaulle put it, you had a very nice anti-tank ditch. We always thought France let us down, at least that’s my opinion or what I heard, I mean. Interviewer: That’s what people thought at the time, or how you thought about it? Yes. Interviewer: Did you follow, were you paying attention when the Dunkirk evacuation went on? Was that something that was in the news? Oh yes, certainly we knew. Yes. That was very sad, really. Interviewer: Did you expect that the Germans would just come and try to invade after that? 6:00 Yes, and I was very scared because the Germans wanted to, they said they’d get all the English girls with fair skin and blue eyes. Right? Well, my friend had red hair and brown eyes and she’d always lord that over me, you know. However, that never happened. So that was something. Interviewer: Can you talk a little bit about the German bombing raids and so forth? What do you remember about those? I remember so much about it, but I remember one night in particular. It was 1942 and I was in hospital with diphtheria, and they didn’t know whether to put me in the children’s ward or the grown-ups’. Well, I went into the adult ward. 7:01 And this particular night all we had, when you have diphtheria, you have to be a flat patient, lay down, and we had our gas masks at the side of the bed, and we weren’t supposed to move. Well, anyway, being an isolation hospital, it �was on its own grounds and a bomb fell, probably, well, just outside. The windows went, shrapnel all over the bed, and it was a terrible night. Panic, screaming, and that’s what I…that was my worst night of the air raids. It might not have been the worst air raid, but it was for me. Interviewer: That was the closest you got to being hit? Yes. Interviewer: Did you get hurt by the flying glass at all? 8:01 No, we got under our blankets and prayed. That was it. Interviewer: They didn’t try to move you down into a cellar or anything like that? Oh no, no. We were there, and next morning…I don’t know why I never took any shrapnel with me, because my bed was full of it, and you know, for a sixteen year old, that was bad. Interviewer: How long were you in the hospital? I was in eight weeks. The thing of it was, I’d just started dating a young boy. I worked in an office at sixteen, and he did too, and I caught diphtheria off him, because he went to hospital and my mother didn’t know who I was going out with or what at that age. Well, anyway, one of the ladies from the office came to visit my mother, and she said, “you know, your Zena’s been going out with a boy who’s been taken to hospital with diphtheria.” 9:13 My mum said, “that’s funny, Zena’s not well. She’s in bed with a bad throat. And the doctor’s coming tomorrow.” Well, when he came he said, “it’s diphth, you’ve got to go away.” And I said, I don’t want to go to hospital. And I’ll always remember what he said and I think it was disgusting. He said, “if you don’t go, you’ll be dead by Saturday.” What kind of a professional was he? ‘Cause I’ve never forgotten it. Interviewer: Not very good bedside manner by modern standards. �Doctor Kirk was his name, I remember. So anyway, I was in eight weeks, but my friend was in ten weeks. 10:00 Interviewer: Did they actually have medication for it? Was there real treatment they could give you? All I remember is they gave me shot in the rear end and they said, “don’t move.” And I didn’t move for about a week, and, no, there wasn’t anything. And then after six weeks I was allowed a pillow and could sit up in bed, and then at seven weeks…and I got out in eight weeks, and after a month at home I went back to the office. Interviewer: How long a period do you think it was that bombing raids would happen? Was it just for a few months or was it over a couple years? Oh no, it was more than that, because Birmingham got, I think, by 1940 we had our first raid. ’41, ’42, ’43. Maybe. 11:03 Interviewer: When you were at home, as opposed to the hospital, what would you do if the air raid sirens went off? Well, at first we’d go down the cellar, and then if you were in bed, of course, you’d go down the cellar. But in the end, you were so used to them, you’d carry on. And I remember once we had a daylight raid, and I was at work, and we always kept our files down below. We thought it was great, actually. We all went down, our whole office went down in the basement. And it was our first daylight raid, actually. So that was another experience. 12:01 But, you know, working in an office and being that age, you were in a dance craze, and we used to dance. We used to pretend we’d go to go look up a file, and we’d be practicing our dance steps down the stairs, you know. Interviewer: How long did you go to school, then? �Well, at that time, you graduated from a public school at fourteen and went to work. Well, higher education…my granddad wanted to put me to a trade, but the war stopped everything, you know, and I went to work in an office and I took up typing and shorthand. Interviewer: What kind of office was it? What business were they? Oh well, now that’s another story. 13:00 We made tanks for the North African desert war, and at that time, Vice - I don’t know what he is now, but General Montgomery came because he was involved, and Churchill came, and we had lots of excitement. And then during our lunch hours, once a week, we had a dance put on, we had entertainment, we had a church service another day, so it was kind of fun in a way, you know. And you just got used to it. Interviewer: Was this in the downtown, center of the city, or was this outside of the city, the factory? No, it was right in Birmingham itself. 14:00 We were a few miles from the center of the city. You had to take a tram. And once we heard…now I’d never seen a black person, and I was seventeen, and we heard that a black contingent of black Americans were going to be on parade in Birmingham. Well, everybody went uptown to see them and we were cheering. We thought it was great seeing all these black people, you know. So I never grew up with prejudice like here, and I had my thoughts on that when I came over, because there was still a lot of prejudice in 1946. Interviewer: Do you remember when the first Americans came to town, did that attract any attention? Yes, my father said, “I better not catch you going out with the Yankees.” 15:05 But who listens to your parents at that age? �Interviewer: Tell me a little bit about the daily life there during the war. This was a period where you had rationing and various kinds of restrictions and things. Oh yes. We had very hard rationing. One egg a month at one time. And was it two ounces of sugar? Two ounces of sugar, and butter, and of course meat. My mother catered to lunches, though, for the factories around. We had several businessmen who would come for a lunch, and she did get extra coupons, so we weren’t as bad as the average English person. 16:00 Interviewer: Did your father’s public house, did they serve food there too, or just beer? We always served bread and cheese, and pickled onions, and my mother put on the lunches for the five days a week. Interviewer: So you had at least a little bit more access to supplies and food than a regular family would. Yes, exactly. Exactly, yes. Interviewer: Was there any kind of black market trade going on at the time? Could one get things if you knew the right people? Yeah, they used to come to us for brandy and whiskey ‘cause we were limited and, in exchange for maybe eggs or something, you know. Interviewer: And was this just regular people you knew in the neighborhood? You’d just trade what you had? Oh yes. And when I was in hospital the local people would get eggs and I was lucky, I would get nearly an egg a day in hospital and then the Sister said, “Zena, how would you like to share your eggs?” 17:09 I said, “sure.” You know, so there you go. Interviewer: How was it that you wound up meeting your future husband? Beg pardon? �Interviewer: How did you meet your husband? Well, let me see. I had a date the night before with another American and he never showed up. So his, I can’t remember his last name, but I liked him because he had a nice accent because he was from North Carolina, name of Bruce. Well, he was at the camp, the estate, and my sister and I, we went riding. I said, “Let’s go up to Packington.” 18:00 Well we got on the outside of the camp, and there was my husband, Ken, sorting through a bunch of bicycles, bicycles, bicycles. And so, we said hello, and I said “do you know of this Bruce?” and he said, “Oh, they shipped out this morning and we shipped in.” And so I said, “Oh that was the reason.” Anyway, he said “where am I?” I said, “Well, you’re between Birmingham and Coventry.” I said, “where have you come from?” He said, “Norwich.” And, he said “Well, what’s the nearest village?” And I told him, Coleshill. He said, “Do you mind if I cycle back with you and see where I am?” you know. So he did, and then he asked me for a date. And then I said, “Well, I only go out in a foursome.” 19:04 I didn’t really, but I said that. And I took a friend and we had a foursome. And that’s how it started. I dated him for a year before we were married. Interviewer: What did your parents think of all this? They didn’t like it. They did not like it. They met Ken and he wasn’t used to the life I was used to, people all around and concerts at the weekend at the pub and dog shows at the pub and barmaids and barmen and everything and Ken was a teetotaler. Just a little Michigan country boy. But anyway, they would say, “he’s too quiet for you.” But he wasn’t in the end. 20:02 We had a nice life. Interviewer: I suppose on the positive side he didn’t bring in any bad habits. He didn’t? Interviewer: Yeah. �No, no, no. Interviewer: It could have been worse. Yeah. Interviewer: What kind of assignment did he have? What was his job in the war? Well, he didn’t talk too much about it, but I do know that he was an assistant when they did autopsies on the bodies, and they’d weigh the parts, and…that was it. And checking the soldiers in and out and stocking. Interviewer: Tell us a little bit about the facility where he was working, because you told me about that off-camera, but where was he working? Well, he was working on the estate. 21:03 It was a hospital. Interviewer: Right, but you had explained that to me off-camera, but for somebody watching the interview right now is not going to know what you’re talking about, so what was the name of the estate? What was it like? The estate was called Packington Park. And it became a hospital and after the war it became a convention and country club and a golf course. I have been there since many times. Interviewer: So it’s basically one of these old noblemen’s country estates? Do you have any idea of how old it was or when it was built? Oh no. It was old. Interviewer: Are there particular things that happened during the course of the war that kind of stand out in your memory? Can you think back to what it was like to live back there in those days? What do you think about? 22:06 Well, I think we all agree that it wasn’t as bad as we thought, you know, because you’re young and you’re dating and you go to the pictures a lot and in the end, when the siren went you’d just �stay there. You didn’t rush, you know. We missed out on a lot, like here you go to formals and dances and get dressed up. We had none of that because of the rationing, and when I got married I had no coupons. Nobody in the family did, but some girl I didn’t even know, she was the neighbor of a friend, she loaned me her dress, and then I thought, “well, what kind of shoes? I’ve got no coupons.” 23:07 It’s kind of funny, but I had a pair of red tap shoes. So what did I do? I painted them, I bought ribbons for the laces, and I walked down the aisle in my tap shoes. And then I thought, “I wonder if when I kneel down, if they’ll see the taps?” I never knew, but that’s how I got married, and you’ll see on that picture I have. Well, anyway. Interviewer: Did you have things like a wedding cake? Or the kinds of things Americans do? Oh yes, the camp. I had a double wedding. My friend, she married an American. Unfortunately, he was a rotter. But anyway, she never did come here. But the camp made us a great big cake. 24:00 We were all delighted because we were rationed, and they brought the cake to the reception, and it had butter frosting I remember. It was great. Interviewer: When was it exactly that you got married? I got married August 1st, 1945, just before the end of the war. But all my teenage years, 13 to 19 was wartime. Interviewer: How long did you say you dated your husband before you got married? A year. Interviewer: That was a year. During that time, was he able to kind of bring anything to give to your family? Stuff that Americans could get that English couldn’t? I got lots of candy, some I liked, some I didn’t. No, he didn’t bring much foodstuff. Interviewer: He probably didn’t have the right job for that. �Probably not, no. 25:00 Interviewer: How long did you stay in England after you got married? Well, we got married in August and Ken left three weeks later, and then I came over in the March of ’46, March the 20th. Interviewer: What kind of process did you have to go through to be able to come over as a war bride? Well, in order to get married we had to go and see the captain of the base, and then the paperwork started, and then to our surprise, we got a check every month which was nice, from the government. And they made all the arrangements, and I was due to come over on a small ship, the Argentina. 26:03 However, I don’t know what happened, but they transferred me to the Queen Mary. And when we left England in March, I mean it was green and spring was almost there, and the lambs were born. And I couldn’t believe my eyes when we got to New York, they put us on a train to Michigan. There was no green, there was no thatched cottages, there was no lambs in the field, and we were all…we thought we were coming to the same type of scenery, you know. And it was kind of a shock. Interviewer: What was the trip on the Queen Mary like? I was sick every day. It was a terrible March, and they had to put a … they had to stabilize it afterwards and put a girder on the one side to stabilize it, but all…Everybody was bad. 27:15 Couldn’t enjoy it. We lived on apples and crackers, so that was that. But since then I was on the Mary a couple of times and saw the beauty of it. Interviewer: I’m sure it’s much nicer in better weather. Yes, yes. Interviewer: Was this boat full of war brides or was it just a regular passenger trip? �No, it was all war brides, war brides. And before we boarded the ship at Southampton, we had to go to a camp for a few days, and I hated that. And our first meal was creamed corn, which we’d never had, and a wiener, which we all hated it. 28:06 I mean to say. And ew, we couldn’t eat it. But anyway. Interviewer: American military chow, that’s what they call that. I remember that. None of the girls enjoyed that, but I like creamed corn now and I love hot dogs, so you get used to things. Interviewer: Sure. What was it like, when you actually got out to Michigan and you realized you were in the Arctic or some place, but then you met your husband’s family? How did that go? Well, I came to Lansing. That’s where I had to come. But his folks lived in Boyne City, so it was a week or so that we went to meet them, and it was not what I expected. 29:03 They were very nice and Ken had put on sixty pounds from the time I’d last saw him in England to over here. And I saw him in not a uniform, I’d never seen him in civilian clothes. Well, anyway, we eventually found an apartment, and I got a job and Ken was working at the Oldsmobile and then he went to school on the GI Bill in the fall, and then that’s where he got his education, from Michigan State. Interviewer: And what kind of work did he go into? He’s a…he was a microbiologist, yes. 30:00 Interviewer: And did he work for a chemical company or a university? No, he worked for the State of Michigan. And also, though, he was a pharmaceutical rep at one point because they made more money, but then the state paid better. Interviewer: What was the hardest thing about making a life for yourself here in the U.S.? �It was a big adjustment, and we didn’t have children for a long time. Well, all I could think about was going home and saving to go home. And I was lucky I went home within two years, because I got in at the Oldsmobile in the office and had a good job, and so I went home in ’48. 31:07 And I’ve been one of the lucky ones, I had 31 visits home. Ken went home. He loved England and he loved history. And our children have been and now Christopher has been and taken his boys. They’ve seen the bluebell woods and our life there. Yes, but then once…let me see, I’m trying to think…In 1968 we were all went back, we sold up and went back. Ken was offered a job and we went. However, it lasted 6, 7 months and we were back to Grand Rapids. 32:04 And his old boss, Dr. Eldering, she was a famous lady. You mean you…? Interviewer: I know who she is. Well, she invented pertussis for whooping cough. Well, she got Ken…she didn’t have anything there, but she got Ken in at Blodgett, and he had a job to come back to. But then when there was a job open at the state, he went back for them. Interviewer: Did the job in England just not work out or…? Well, he liked the job. We loved where we lived on the South coast, but we were living off our savings and we had a ten year old son who was very unhappy, crying and he couldn’t adjust. 33:01 My five year old, he didn’t care and anyway… I think Ken thought he wasn’t going to work as hard, but they had him teaching in Exeter once or twice a week. They had him on call, and little pay. But then when we came back, all the hospital workers went on strike and they doubled the wages and we went back and visited the hospital the next time we went. And when Ken was interviewed for this job, there was a gentleman from Oxford that was interviewed with him and two others, but he got the job, and he said, “Ken you should never have left. We’re �making beaucoup money now.” 34:00 But we came back and I was finally happy and satisfied and life was good. Interviewer: Now probably after I turn off the camera you will think of some other thing you remember particularly about life there during the war, but… I probably shall, yes. Interviewer: But that is how it works, so in the meantime I’ll just thank you for taking the time to tell me your story today. You’re welcome. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SmithZ1342V Title A name given to the resource Smith, Zena (Interview transcript and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smith, Zena Description An account of the resource Zena Smith was born in 1926 in Birmingham, England. As a teenager, she experienced the effects of war on her community. She had a job at an office after completing public school that made tanks for the North African Desert War. There were often sirens heard throughout her community to warn them about air raids. She contracted diphtheria at one point and had to stay in a hospital for eight weeks and was there when a bomb hit her hospital. She took a job with a defense plant and saw Winston Churchill and General Montgomery when they visited it. Mrs. Smith met her husband, Ken Smith, in 1944 and dated a year before marrying. Her husband worked at Packington Park and was an assistant during autopsies. After getting married and at the end of the war, she traveled on the Queen Mary to the United States. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-02-01 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c322474c305b7d498c6090c908be79df.jpg 8bd0bce8d50888b1e4b37c0fecd6beb2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SmithsonPeterRod_Photo01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Smithson, Peter Rod Description An account of the resource Peter Rod Smithson Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8e188fe008613eef77dc3b806d646340.jpg f0f0203b35e0d5583cfc209ea93061e8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SmithsonPeterRod_Photo02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Smithson, Peter Rod Description An account of the resource Peter Rod Smithson Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/677e781488db1034339a2e556db4d925.mp4 15c7047064179627a73d25e78da9bca2 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4f5e88f9918338e73210a0809714a7f1.pdf 3d5296d5ea016a9e0d9feb814373f5d8 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran: Wendall Smits Interviewed by James Smither Transcribed by Grace Balog Interviewer: We are talking today with Wendall Smits of Byron Center, Michigan, and the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project. Okay, now start us off with some background on yourself and begin with where and when you were born. Veteran: I was born in South Holland, Illinois, right outside of Chicago, 1936. Graduated from school and high school in Lansing, Illinois, and at Illiana Christian High School. I had a good friend there who had joined the Coast Guard Reserve and pestered me and pestered me to join, and I had to get in before I was 18 to get into the program that they wanted to get, or, that he wanted me to get in at the time. So I-Interviewer: Okay-Veteran: Go ahead. Interviewer: Can we back up a little bit there. Born in 1936, what was your family doing for a living when you were a kid? Veteran: For the most part, my father, during the Korean War, worked in an aircraft engine manufacturer. It was a Ford Plant on the South Side of Chicago. And after that, he was a truck driver for the most part. And just to back up there in World War ll, he operated a machine in Harvey, Illinois that made crank shafts for engines that were produced in Muskegon, Michigan and later ended up in tanks during World War ll. (0:01:51) �Interviewer: Right. Veteran: In between, he was a truck driver back in… Interviewer: Okay, do you remember much of anything about the World War ll period or were you too young to be aware of things? Veteran: I think the only thing that I, the only two things that I remember: one, being, you know, the end of the war and how happy people were and what I heard on the radio. The other was that my dad had a bad ailment in his hearing and he was off of work for about a year. He was running what they called an upset machine to make those crank shafts, and he had to push a floor pedal and then wait for it to form a hot block of iron into a crank shaft. And because he had this ear problem and he would just drop over like a dead fate once in a while. He was off of work for over a year. I do remember that. He was glad to get back to work at the end of the war and he was glad that it was over. Interviewer: Right. Okay, what year did you finish high school? Veteran: 1954. Interviewer: Okay, now you were saying then that while you were in high school, one of your friends was after you, and so you had to actually enlist, before you turned 18? Veteran: Mhmm. Interviewer: But what was the program that he wanted you to get into? Veteran: You enlisted for 6 years at that point in time, in the reserves, with an obligation that during the 6 years, you were going to do at least a couple years of active duty. Once I was in and down the road a little bit and getting good grades and doing what I had to do to get promoted, �there was an edict finally that said if you stay in for 6 years, and you get all of your good grades and you get a progression of advancement, you won’t have to do your active duty for 2 years. Once I finished 6, I said well, maybe I’ll go another 4 and that went on and on and we got to 20 and I said well, maybe I will do 30 and that’s where I ended up, 31 years. Interviewer: Okay, so we will go back now. So if you are enlisting when you are 17, you needed your parents’ permission to do that? Veteran: I did. Interviewer: Okay, and what did your parents think of the idea? Veteran: My mother was very nervous. My dad was relatively proud of it. He was an immigrant from the Netherlands, and really loved this country. (0:04:11) Interviewer: Okay, now once you enlist, now what happens? How do they process you? Where do you go for training? Veteran: Okay, we enlisted at the Customs House in downtown Chicago, and at that point in time, we went to reserve units immediately the following Monday night. Those were done in the evenings at that time. And you didn’t go to boot camp until a year later, so I didn’t actually go to boot camp until 1955. Interviewer: Okay. Now, were you still in high school at that point? Or did you move on to something else? Veteran: I had, I had graduated the previous spring, just before I enlisted. Interviewer: Alright, and now… So what are you, in reserve, you have your evening classes and things like that but what else were you doing at that time? �Veteran: Oh, at the same time I was going to college in Harvey, Illinois. Just a community college there. While I was in at the same time, I was working in the summer. Interviewer: Okay, so during the first year when you haven’t done boot camp yet, what are you doing in the training session? Veteran: A couple of things, I think, that were important maybe. Lots of firearms training and lots of classroom instruction on rescue and search activities. And that was kind of the beginning of the career, that’s the direction it was going in. Interviewer: Now were these classes for new recruits or were these things that all of the reserves and all the men in the unit went to? Veteran: The majority of the time was spent by all the people in the unit, just over and over and over. Interviewer: So you had Monday nights, did you have any weekends that you did training or just those? Veteran: Just the Monday nights at that time. It was probably 3 or 4 years before we began to do weekends instead of Monday nights. And that was good, I always thought, because we’d have to make 3, or 4, or 5 trips down to downtown Chicago from where I lived as opposed to one weekend. And the other thing that I thought was good about it was that you actually became a part time employee at a regular Coast Guard base, and much more productive and much better learning experience than just classes in a classroom. (0:06:40) Interviewer: Okay, so what were you, so is this part time thing, how did that work? When were you there and what did you do? �Veteran: For the most part, we went to local Coast Guard stations in Chicago. At that time, there was one in Navy Pier, right on the end of Navy Pier, there was one in Calumet Harbor, there was one in Jackson Harbor, and we’d spend the weekend right at that Coast Guard station doing exactly what those regular Coast Guard people were doing. Interviewer: Okay, so can I go back here, your first year you say, and then you do boot camp then in 1955? Veteran: Mhmm. Interviewer: Okay, where is the boot camp? Veteran: Over in Cape May, New Jersey. Probably one of the most humid places in the United States, other than Jacksonville, Florida. Interviewer: Alright, and what did boot camp consist of? Veteran: Again, lots of firearms training, lots of swimming and life-saving instruction, and lots of time spent in the classroom, and lots and lots of time marching out on the parade ground. Interviewer: Okay. How much emphasis was there on discipline and spit and polish stuff? Veteran: Lots of emphasis, I guess. Everybody was required to go to chow in the morning in their white uniform, and when you finished chow, you came back and you changed into your dungarees and before you went to chow at noon, you did the same thing, and after chow, you did the same thing in the evening as well. Lights were out at 10 o’clock, and the rabble rouse was at 5 o’clock in the morning and you better have your shoes shined every night and wherever you went, you marched and a couple of petty officers and one chief petty officer ran the show. And �the chief petty officer slept in the barracks as we did, so everybody knew to be up before revelry, because otherwise he was at your bedside, waking you up. (0:08:38) Interviewer: Okay. And how intense was the physical training? Veteran: For a guy who, you know, had just finished high school, and was going to college, probably a little soft, I learned what my mother had done for me real quickly. Wash your own clothes with ice cold water and ivory soap and rinse them in ice cold water. Beat off the mosquitoes in the middle of the night as you stood watch and so forth. So yeah, you learned a lot in a big hurry. Interviewer: Okay. Now the guys who were in there with you, did you learn anything about them? Where they were from? What kind of backgrounds did they have? Veteran: Yeah there, there were two guys who went to boot camp with me from my unit in Chicago, and then the majority of the rest of the people in the boot camp were from the eastern half of the United States, or I should say east of the Mississippi. Most of those who enlisted west of the Mississippi went to Alameda, California for boot camp. So yeah, we got, I met people from New York and New Orleans and Jacksonville, Florida, and all over the eastern half of the U.S. Interviewer: Okay. Were they pretty much all white at this point? Or did you have some race in there--Veteran: We had some black, black folks, we had some Hispanic folks, but for the most part, were white at that time, yeah. (0:10:01) Interviewer: Alright. And how long did the boot camp last? �Veteran: Our boot camp lasted two weeks. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: We were at--we were there for 15 days, and when we arrived, we left on an airplane from Chicago and went to Philadelphia, and we were going to ride the train from Philadelphia to boot camp. They left us at the train station there for 8 hours with nothing to eat, that was all part of the routine I guess. And then when we got to Cape May, we rode from the train station in an old school bus and we had about 80 people in that school bus and you know that no school buses is equipped to hold 80 people. So we were all kind of—it was in the middle of August, it was 90some degrees when we arrived there. So this was all part of the game. We had the first meal late in the evening on Sunday, around 9:30, and it was baked beans and bread. And the chief said you better eat it all, just go back up there and get more. If you don’t, you’ll eat it tomorrow morning. And we thought he was kidding. The next morning, we got up and they had put it in trays, about maybe an inch and a half to two inches thick, and had put it in the refrigerator. They cut it and they served it like brownies, so we made sure we ate it the following morning. Interviewer: Alright, and then you talked about weapons training. Was this just small arms? Veteran: Yes, rifles and pistols. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, so they’re not the anti-aircraft guns or the big machine guns, or things like that? Veteran: No, no. Interviewer: Okay, and this is all on land that you are doing this or do they— �Veteran: Yes, it was all on land at Cape May. Interviewer: Okay, and then having completed that, now did you just go back to your units and— Veteran: We went back at that time, you know, to our regular Monday night unit. And after that, we had active duty every year for at least two weeks, except for two years when I was in, near the end of the time I was in, Coast Guard Reserve was really hurting for money so they asked a lot of people to take waivers, involuntary waivers, for training, which I did. And then the last year of the 31 I was in the inactive reserve, which meant again I could be called up but I didn’t attend any meetings. Otherwise, I went every year for two weeks. (0:12:26) Interviewer: Okay, I got to go back here to the beginning. So initially, you were assigned to the Coast Guard in Chicago? Veteran: Mhmm. Interviewer: Alright, and what, how long did you serve with them that time? Veteran: Approximately two years there. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And then they commissioned the unit in Gary, Indiana. And I chose to go there, we could make a choice. Having lived in Lansing, Illinois, it was easier for me really to get to Gary than it was to get to downtown Chicago. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So they broke that unit just about in half when they started the unit in Gary. And that would have been about 1956, -57, somewhere around there. �Interviewer: Okay, now when you’re with your—you were with a unit in Chicago, what was your job or your assignment? Veteran: My assignment then was--I was leaning towards engineman training and you know, working down in the engine room in the machinery spaces, so we had a number of classes, as I was saying before, in small arms training, and so actual, actual small arms training was at the armory there and we could actually fire right there in the building. But the other half was leaning towards engineering experience, learning diesel engines and all that sort of stuff. And while I was—after I finished the junior college, then I went to work for an organization that was making diesel engines. So that kind of worked together between the two, what I did at work, working in an engine test lab, and what I was doing in the reserves and that kind of got me into the engineering phase. (0:14:00) Interviewer: Okay, and then when you go to Gary, are you now focusing on the engineering part? Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, and how long did you stay with the unit in Gary? Veteran: 21 years. Interviewer: Okay. Let’s kind of take us through some of the different things that you did with them. Did you stay with engineering or did you change what your assignment was after a while? Veteran: No. I went to Gary as what they call a fireman, would have been an E3, and left there as a lieutenant when I moved to Cleveland. But in between, I became a chief engineman, I was an �E7, there was no E8 and E9 at that time. And then there was an opening in the Coast Guard for about 10 warrant officers in the engineering group. And I don’t know, there were a couple hundred people who took the test, and I was lucky enough to pass the test. And then went on a Coast Guard cutter, Bramble, and got my—no, that was on the Coast Guard cutter Woodbine, out of Grand Haven, and I was able to become a warrant officer. I did that for two years. And then again they were looking for some people as line officers, even though you hadn’t completed college, which I hadn’t. And again, it was a process of taking a test, and I was promoted to a Lieutenant Junior Grade. We skipped Ensign because of our age. Interviewer: Okay, so how common—I mean, you seemed to have moved pretty well through the ranks here in this career. Was that normal for a reservist or were you a little unusual? Veteran: There were some people who stuck with the reserve as I did, if that’s the way to say it, and then there were others who enlisted for 4 years and moved on and said I’ve had enough of this, I am done, and they moved on. But for those folks who stuck with it, and as I was saying before, if they did what they had to do to get promoted, there was kind of an unwritten timeframe: you know you go from E3 to E4 to E5 to E6 and on up the line. And if you became stagnant in a particular level, the top officers were looking for you and saying hey, either move on up or get out. However, all of those promotions, all the way from E1 to E7, were all on a written test. And not all of the services have that, most of the tests were about 150 questions, very specific to your particular rank as an engineman and so forth. (0:16:49) Interviewer: Okay, so you had to do well enough on the test as you were going through, so there’s a kind of weed out process going on, it’s not just whether you, you don’t get it just for showing up? �Veteran: No, absolutely not. Interviewer: You have to earn that. Alright, now in the—you’re in the Coast Guard a long time, and a variety of different incidents happen or come up along the way. One of them, you had—so you initially, it’s the Cold War, and there were different things that would flare up in different parts of the world, then eventually Vietnam happens, and so forth. And then, in the latter part of your service, Ronald Reagan becomes president and incidents happen then too. So, you probably have kind of an up and down period of sometimes when things might happen and other times they seem quiet. Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: Now to go back, kind of the early stages of your service, what kind of stands out for you, like in the period when you were an enlisted man: training assignments or any active duty work or anything else like that? What particular things stand out? (0:18:02) Veteran: Okay, in the early part after moving to Gary, there was a normal progression there in the enlisted ranks up. And as it was for me as a chief engineman, once I became E6, which would be 1st class petty officer, and E7, I was responsible for the training of other enginemen in our unit. And then after we, after I had the promotion to warrant officer, which was also an engineering rank, but now as an engineering warrant officer, you’re responsible for boilers and all of the other things that were on ships at that time. I was responsible for some training at the unit and also responsible for some training at lifeboat stations. Younger enginemen who were just learning the trade so to speak, what to do in a 40-foot boat when the engine quit running and so forth. So, I enjoyed the time away from the unit as much as I did the time at the unit. �Interviewer: Okay. And then, where would you go for like your, you had these two week training assignments in the summers or whatever? Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: What places did you go for those? Veteran: I think, well I went to, 12 or 13 times, to Yorktown, Virginia. And Yorktown was a reserve base, and at that time it was only reserves, and most of that was for school and advanced school, and other school, there was engineman school there, there was water pollution school, explosive loading school. Leadership school, I was at there twice as an enlisted man, once as an officer. And I really enjoyed going back every other year almost, to school. In between we went to operating bases. I was at Great Lakes, Illinois a couple of times, Jacksonville, Florida. I was in New York at the capital at the port twice, once when it was on Governor’s Island, and once when it was in Manhattan, right near the battery park there. I was in Concord, California at explosive loading school. That was during the time when we were bombing Cambodia, and we were loading ships with 500 pound bombs that were all the way stacked in the hold and about 12 high on the deck. And they would run the ships out through the river, and out past San Francisco but they would stop in San Francisco to load provisions. And just before I got there, one of those loaded freighters had hit the pier in San Francisco and put a 12-foot gash in the bow. So while I was there, they started loading provisions way back at Concord, and they ran them right straight out of the river, so. But that was a busy time. We worked about 18 hours a day, loading ships with bombs at that time. (0:21:04) Interviewer: Okay. Now you’re, you’re in a long time and you are in kind of through—I guess before we get to sort of the Vietnam era, you get—there’s some Cold War crises that �happen. I mean there actually have been trouble in Lebanon in the late 50s which wasn’t directly Cold War, but that was one thing that put some units in some places on alert, but then you’ve got things like the Berlin Wall crisis and the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile crisis. Did any of those things have ripple effects that made it to your Coast Guard unit? Veteran: I think only at that time, any of those things that you just mentioned, only that we were living under a little more rigid alert. Reminded again that, you know, that we had orders in our pocket that if anybody was called up, they were expected to be at their location, at their base within 24 hours. Most of the time, I carried orders in my pocket to be in Juneau, Alaska within 24 hours after I got a phone call. (0:22:07) Interviewer: Alright. Had you ever been to Juneau, Alaska? Veteran: Yes, I had. Interviewer: Okay, so what was up there? Veteran: I was just there once on a cruise, so I don’t know. Interviewer: Okay, you hadn’t gone there and you hadn’t seen the base or anything like that? Veteran: No, no it would have been brand new for me to, you know, to go to the base. I had been in Juneau, but not at the base there. Interviewer: Okay. And then when Kennedy is assassinated in 63, did that, was that, did that just kind of work the same way? Veteran: Yeah, it worked the same way. We just would be on a regular high alert, if that’s the way to say it. It often reminds me when I hear about the people in homeland security today being �on a high alert. There’s various different levels of alert. It was much the same in the reserves at that time. Interviewer: Okay. Now in 65, the Vietnam war becomes a ground war and we begin drafting large numbers of people and there had been a draft in place taking some people but then that accelerated quite a bit in the next several years. And you had a lot of people trying to enlist in something other than the army, or get into reserve units, or do different things to kind of avoid Vietnam. Did you notice any of the effects of that in terms of what kinds of men were coming into your units? Did you have people who seemed to be trying to avoid Vietnam or did they just seem like the guys you always got? Veteran: There was no question there was some people there to avoid Vietnam, and there were some people who were there because they were proud to be Americans. That created a bit of a conflict in some units. A number of these people were very outspoken about they were only there to put in their time so they didn’t have to go to Vietnam, I only enlisted, for example they would say to me, I only enlisted so that I don’t have to go over there, and yet I know you have to train me so let’s do the best you can but I am not really going to do anything. And we had two brothers, twins, in our unit in Gary, and we knew we were going to have an inspection. And at that time, they wore the old Navy uniform: it was exactly the same as the Navy uniform so you had your rating badge on your left sleeve. And they had taken their rating badge off of their sleeve and had obtained, I don’t know where, but had obtained a badge that looked like it belonged on their sleeve and it had the peace symbol, if you know what that looks like. And we had an inspection from the district office, and I can tell you that the commanding officer from the district office, I thought he was going to kill these two kids when he walked by them. He just �walked over to their uniform just literally ripped it off of their sleeve. And, but they did their 4 years and they were gone. That’s all they really cared, you know. (0:24:52) Interviewer: Now did you have people who were sort of actively interested in actually doing kind of home front, Coast Guard things, I mean just the rescue stuff and that sort of—did you have people who actually wanted to go and do those things or would those people go active duty instead? Veteran: We had a lot of folks who were very anxious to learn lifesaving duties and so forth you know, especially when we started that augmentation of the regular reserve units. They were very anxious to be boat coxswains and to be enginemen on board the small boats, really enjoyed it. I did too. When I did some active duty in Chicago, a couple times there at the Coast Guard stations, we went out on search and rescues any old time of the day or night. The whistle would go off, we ran down to the boat after we put our clothes on and usually we slept with our clothes on, even in the middle of the summer, run down to the boat and be gone within a few minutes, much like airline pilots do today, and so forth. Interviewer: Okay. And then, while you are doing that kind of work with the boats and so forth, are there particular events or things that kind of stand out in your memory? (0:26:03) Veteran: Only two times, I guess, both of which were recoveries of bodies. It was in Lake Michigan and that’s a tough job for some people. It’s a smelly job. And we had one incident in Chicago where a guy had gone overboard off of a ship in November and his body was floating in April. So I won’t get any deeper than that but you can imagine what it was like. Everybody had to bury their clothes after we got back to the base, because of the odor. You can’t get it out of �your clothes, so. His body came apart in pieces when we picked him up, so. But, we had a lot of rescues. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: The beaches in Chicago are always busy this time of the year. And people get out just like they do here on Lake Michigan, and don’t watch the red flag, or ignore it, or want to say I guess I’m better, I don’t have to notice that it’s there, and they go out, you know, and go swimming. But we had a lot of rescues there. There’s a strong undertow in Chicago, even stronger than it is here. I don’t know if that’s, you know, because of the way the lake moves or what it is, but a lot of people were pulled under by the undertow there. Interviewer: Okay, and you have people close enough to be able to actually help or— Veteran: Yeah, when I, at that time, at least in Calumet Park, and they did also at Navy Pier, they had a large tower. It went up probably I guess three and a half or four stories high and we could watch the entire beach. And for weekends in particular, and that’s when we were there for training, weekends in particular at that time, the Coast Guard boats would patrol back and forth and north and south and back again on the beach, and watch for swimmers so we had an active presence, and it didn’t take us but a couple minutes to get to somebody if they were in trouble. Interviewer: Okay, because yeah it has to be pretty quick if they’re going under… Veteran: It has to be if they’re going under. (0:28:18) Interviewer: Alright. Now did you have to kind of go out in bad weather conditions? The famous Coast Guard stuff was often the little boat in the giant waves kind of thing. �Veteran: Yeah, I guess the—we were out in some small boats at that time. They were 40-footers. Most of that wasn’t bad, but I remember when we went across on the Bramble, when I was there for warrant officer evaluation, went on there and we left in November. There was a buoy that had come loose in Chicago and the Bramble was responsible for the entire bottom of the lake, all the way up to and including Chicago, and the buoy had come loose in Chicago. We left from Grand Haven and it’s hard for some people to believe, but when we left the river there, the water was splashing on the glass in the lighthouse there. And we know of, I know of one chief electrician who was not sick, and we don’t know about the captain because he never came out of his cabin. The other 40 guys were sick. And when I got to Chicago and got off, my legs were like rubber, and it was that way for a couple days. Now people talk about being seasick in the ocean, but there is a difference on the lake. It comes up in just a couple of minutes and it was—it took us about nine and a half hours from Grand Haven to Chicago and that’s not even 40 miles across the lake so, it was a rough trip. Interviewer: Okay, did you manage to fix the buoy? Veteran: Yeah, we did fix the buoy. We had another buoy with us and we placed that one in the right position and we picked up the broken one and towed it into Chicago, so. (0:30:06) Interviewer: Alright, and you also mentioned that at one point, when you were in Lake Michigan, there was a massive oil spill in Chicago? Veteran: Yes. I don’t remember exactly what year that was but it started early in the morning on the 4th of July and there was an oil tankard that had come into Calumet Harbor there, or at the east Chicago Indiana harbor where the refineries are there, and it was a Polish vessel. He was upset with something that had happened and he purposely pumped the bilges into Lake �Michigan. And that was during the Cold War period yet, and gobs of oil as big as your fist began to roll up on the beach on the 4th of July as the sun rose. And you can imagine millions of people that wanted to go to the beach…and so we were called up for three days. And I was awake on the boat for probably between 36 and 48 hours. Most of us guys were out on the boat. We messed up a screw on one of the boats so I had to go underneath the water and change the screw. It’s a tough job even when you’re above water. So you go down for maybe three, four minutes with a mask and all of the gear that you need you know, but it was really difficult to work underneath the water and I don’t take any credit for any of that any more than anybody else that was on the boat. Everybody had a tough job. Interviewer: Alright. Were you still an enlisted man at that point? During that-Veteran: Yes, I was. Interviewer: So yeah, you’re the engine guy, okay you go down and do— Veteran: You go down and do this, that’s right. Interviewer: Had you been trained to do that sort of work? Veteran: I had been trained to change those screws, but not to do it underwater. That was a whole new experience. And you had to learn pretty quick that, you know, you can only be down for so long and your arms were fatigued and you had to come up for some air. (0:32:01) Interviewer: So you had an oxygen tank but you, was it still just physically moving underwater? Veteran: Underwater was tough, all the resistance from the water itself, you know, yeah. Trying to operate wrenches and screwdrivers and so forth underwater. I dropped the screwdriver, �dropped the wrench a couple of times, it was gone. Had to get another one from the boat, and so forth. Interviewer: Alright. Now when you make the shift from enlisted to warrant officer, I guess first of all, not everyone is going to know what a warrant officer is, it’s kind of a peculiar rank, so can you explain what that was? Veteran: Yeah, a warrant officer in a naval service, whether it be U.S. Navy or the Coast Guard, is a specialist in his own right. If I look once in a while at people, in the Army for example, a lot of helicopter pilots are warrant officers. But in the naval service, you’re considered a specialist in a particular field. Mine was engineering. The other people who are, you know, operate up on a bridge, or whatever it happens to be. And I guess I looked, once that opening was there to be a warrant officer, I said this is a chance to expand what I am doing. I was a chief engineman and that was a lot of fun and there was a little prestige involved there. You could go to chief club, you couldn’t do that before, and so forth. But this was a chance to do something more than I did as a chief. So an engine—on the Bramble, for example, and the Woodbine that was here in Grand Haven, the Bramble was out of Detroit, a warrant officer was the head of the engineering department on that ship. So it was a chance to do something more. Interviewer: Okay. What differentiates a warrant officer from a line officer? Veteran: A line officer, usually, expected to be more general in nature, as opposed to a warrant officer being a specialist. That’s about the best way I can describe it, I guess. (0:34:09) Interviewer: And so it’s a separate category in between conventional officer—a warrant officer is kind of in between that and the enlisted? �Veteran: Yeah it’s a peculiar situation in the Navy. When you’re a chief, at that time E7 was the highest, when you’re a chief, you are welcome in the chief’s club and there’s an aura about being a chief that he’s the guy who knows. If you’re a young officer, you go to the chief to learn what’s going on. And then you become a warrant officer, you’re no longer welcome in the chief’s club, you’re kind of looked down upon in the officer’s club, and I had some strange experiences as a warrant officer. Just a little harassment. You know, the kind of thing that kids might do in college to freshmen and so forth. Went to the officer’s club one day and it was in the summertime and people were dressed either in khakis or in whites but you, it was all white from head to toe, or all khaki from head to toe, and one of the line officers who was in there recognized me as being a new warrant officer. And he arranged to have my white cap stolen from the rack and brought my khaki one there, so I had to go back to the barracks with a white uniform and a khaki hat so that kind of thing, but we got passed it. We had a lot of fun. Interviewer: How long did you stay at warrant officer rank? Veteran: Two years. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Approximately two years. Interviewer: Alright, but you decided it would be a good thing to do to move up to the next level? Veteran: Yeah, I did. Again, as a chance to do something more. And that opened the door for me in three different units where I was a training officer, and I was able to actually operate the entire training program in the unit and schedule all the people in the unit for their annual active duty. So it was a chance to make sure that people were going to active duty that was intentional for �their rank. And by that I mean if a guy wanted to be an engineman, he went to engineman school or a related school, leadership school, or you know, that sort of thing. So you ran the entire training program of the unit. The unit in Gary had, at one time, had well over a hundred men, so it was a pretty responsible job to make sure that all these people got the proper training all the time to move up, especially those who wanted to move up, if that’s the way to say it. (0:36:54) Interviewer: Okay. Now aside from Gary, I mean where else did you serve as an officer? Veteran: After Gary, I went to Cleveland, Ohio. I had moved on a civilian job and was in a unit there for about a year, in an engineering unit, which was really foreign to me. I say engineering, it was the kind of engineering that goes along with inspections of vessels before they are commissioned, all the drawings and the building of a vessel. That was completely foreign to me. I had no training in that and requested early on that I be moved to a port security unit there in Cleveland. And then I took a job in Owosso, Michigan here, and had to leave Cleveland so the only opening at that point in time was in Chicago again. So I was living in Ada here at that time, and drove one weekend a month to Chicago to do my active duty on the weekend. And then there was a unit in Grand Rapids, at that time, and it was in the Naval Armory on the north side, in Monroe, and I made application to move to that unit. And it was okayed. And a month before I was to move to that unit, the unit moved to Muskegon. So I had to drive from here to Muskegon for some time in the last year that I was in. But again, it was a chance for an advancement. I became an executive officer there. I was responsible for the operations of the unit. (0:38:30) Interviewer: Alright. Now, you had mentioned, before the interview, that you had sort of one kind of other crisis situation or almost crisis situation that you had gotten into, and that was toward the end of your service. When Reagan was president— �Veteran: Yes. When Reagan was president, and they had the prisoners in Lebanon, or the hostages in Lebanon, and they were concerned about getting them out, we were called up at the unit. In fact, I was at work that day and I got a call 1:30, 2 o’clock in the afternoon to be in Chicago the following morning at Great Lakes. And we went to Great Lakes and they herded our entire unit, and a couple of other units, we had probably well over 300 hundred people there. When we left, we were told to make sure our insurance was up to date, our will was up to date, because we were going to the Middle East. When we got there, they pulled the black shades. And we had a couple days of instruction and towards the end of the second day they told us that they’d be issuing khaki uniforms for us, and that was unheard of in the Coast Guard, any camouflage. Interviewer: And so not khaki uniforms but camouflage uniforms? Veteran: But a camouflage uniform, yeah. And that was unheard of at that point in time, you know, we wore blue dungarees and whatever. And one of the guys in the crew asked the commanding officer why are we wearing these? And he said, well, you are going to the desert. And this kid said but we weren’t trained for the desert, we were trained for water. And he said well, you will only be there a few days. And he said, and the kid said, are we going there before the Marines get there and we’re cannon fodder? And the commanding officer said, yeah, that’s probably a good way to describe it. A couple hours later, they told us we could pack up our gear and go home without ever telling us why, what happened, but there must have been something going on behind the scenes that they decided they no longer needed the Coast Guard or anybody like us over there, so. (0:40:38) Interviewer: Okay. Now, during the Vietnam era, did the Coast Guard take any sort of heat from the anti-war movement? Or did people not associate you with Vietnam? �Veteran: I never was privy to see any demonstrations or anything at our unit. It didn’t happen at the unit or any place that I was ever at. We had some people in the unit that I mentioned before that were not so happy to be there but…No, I really never saw any demonstrations. Interviewer: Okay. Now if you were just out in public wearing a uniform, you didn’t get— it didn’t get a negative reaction anywhere? Veteran: No. No, because most of those reserve units that we were in, we ate off site. We ate our lunch off site, we would go to a restaurant. It would be 120, 130 guys eating in a restaurant all with our uniforms on. Nobody ever bothered us. Interviewer: They might not bother 120 or 130 guys all at once, either. Veteran: No, that’s probably true. That’s probably true. Interviewer: That part at least you didn’t necessarily observe. Alright, now the port security thing, was that something that you only went to once you were in Cleveland or had you done that kind of work earlier? Veteran: I had done that when we started in Chicago. The emphasis was more on rescue and search, and that lasted about 2, 3 years. And then there began to morph into, you know, what are we going to do with the port in Chicago? You know people think, well, the port in Chicago, what’s that? Well it’s not much and it wasn’t much at that time, but we began to see some activities already that were a little disconcerting. And, what do we do with these people on the pier who are half drunk and laying around and do we observe some people on the pier who appear to be drunk but they’re not and they are just acting like they are, and that sort of stuff. So we began, the captain of the port in Chicago, began very actively to train port security people on what to do in a port and on the facilities. And that just grew, and all the time, almost all the time �that I spent in Gary, I was involved in port security and that continued in Cleveland and the other units, except for that one year in Cleveland when I was in the engineering unit. (0:42:53) Interviewer: Okay. And then, so the port security, was that mostly just dealing with ordinary people wandering around or did you have to deal with criminal activity, or other things like that? Veteran: Yeah, we dealt with a lot of criminal activity, particularly in New York when I was there a couple of times and New Orleans as well. When I was in New Orleans, we had one night that the training officer in New Orleans—my object when I got to New Orleans was to become completely certified as a port safety officer. And the training officer there went on leave without me knowing it, and I was supposed to work with him the entire two weeks. I got a knock on my door about 3 o’clock in the morning that said get up, we’re going up to Baton Rouge. And I said, what happened? I got dressed, I said what happened. There was an enlisted man there. And that was, as I, you know, mentioned before, you asked the enlisted man what’s going on if you’re the officer to make sure and you’re new on the place. He said well there’s a Russian vessel that left from Cuba three days early. He was supposed to stop in New Orleans and let lots of people aboard, like the state department and the agriculture department and whatever, he was going to load grain. And he roared right through New Orleans and didn’t stop. So he said we’re going up there. So we went up there and it was early, just about dawn, when we got to Baton Rouge. And to make a long story short, eventually the captain and the entire crew of that Russian vessel was detained, he would not allow them off the ship. And the state department was there, the agriculture department and the FBI and I don’t know who all, including us. So it was a very new experience for me. Very tense aboard that ship when the captain was told that he was not allowed to go ashore. He wanted people to go to a doctor, and on his crew manifest, he had two doctors. �He wanted people to go to a dentist and he had a dentist on the crew manifest, all of which were bogus, you know. He had a crew list of more than twice the number of people that was required to run that ship. So you know what was going on, we all know what was going on at that point in time. And he loaded grain eventually in Baton Rouge, and he was escorted with Coast Guard vessels in front and behind, all the way to 90 miles into the gulf. So it was a rough night and a rough day…but a lot of fun. (0:45:44) Interviewer: Okay. Now if you’re in a place like New York or New Orleans, do you have to worry about smuggling activities or organized crime activities? Veteran: Yeah, a lot of the work in New York was on the piers. At that time, the old wood piers. We were concerned a whole lot with activities of the longshore men, and I don’t mean to knock the longshore men, it’s their job. But the old story on the longshore men in New York was the first ten percent that comes off the ship belongs to the longshore men. And no smoking on the pier. We were on one pier in New York when I was there the second time where we caught a guy smoking and he was reported immediately to the supervisor. And when it happens twice, that’s grounds for dismissal: you lose your job. And we told him about it. There were three of us guys. We told him that he had one warning, and if there was another, he was gone. We went aboard the ship to inspect the ship. At that point in time, a lot of those inspections were for radioactive material and so forth aboard the ship and we had all of the instruments necessary to do that. Checked all the papers with the officers on the ship and so forth. We came back off and this guy was smoking again. And the guy who was with me, he said to him I am going to your supervisor, and you just lost your job. And as we walked towards the supervisor’s office, I heard a scream by the guy who was on my right, and this guy who had just been caught smoking for the second time took what they call a bale hook, kind of a round hook that they would hook nets to pull �things off the ship, and he put it right through his back and it came out of his chest. And luckily we got him to the hospital before he bled to death or anything, but those are the kind of people that worked on the piers sometimes in New York so. (0:47:48) Interviewer: Okay, so presumably he lost his job at that point… Veteran: Yeah, he did lose his job and went to prison, I understand, for some years besides, which… So it, you know, wasn’t combat but it was—it could be very dangerous. It could be very dangerous. Interviewer: I mean did you encounter any kind of drug smuggling issues or things like that? Veteran: No, I don’t think that at that point in time the Coast Guard was much involved in it. At least not that I knew of…Like they are today. It’s a big part of their job today. Interviewer: But as far as the port security, it was not necessarily that kind of detective work so much it was— Veteran: No, it was kind of a--almost a law enforcement activity at that point in time. Here’s what we are looking for, if we find it, here’s what the punishment is or you know what’s going to happen to you folks that are involved in it. (0:48:41) Interviewer: Okay, now you mentioned the looking for radioactive materials. That seems kind of odd…Did you get stuff going in, coming out? Any idea what that was about? Veteran: There was a concern I think at that time in the Coast Guard that there might be, you know there was--we already had atomic bombs, and was there any smuggling of radioactivity, radioactive material, that was either coming in or going out. That was one of the concerns when �we went on board the ship. Who’s trying to build a bomb that we don’t want building a bomb. And we have that same problem today, right? Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: It’s never stopped. Interviewer: Okay, let’s see now, did you get any kind of awards or commendations, kind of beyond the stuff you get for showing up? Veteran: Yeah, I got the—you know the pistol marksman, and the rifle marksman and so forth, but the one that I enjoyed the most was the Coast Guard Achievement Medal. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And after spending 21 years in one unit, there were a lot of things I was able to do. One of my tours of active duty was right at that unit for two weeks. And one other fellow and myself spent the entire two weeks, probably close to 70 hours a week for those two weeks, rewriting engineering programs and engineering training manuals for the entire 9th district. And that’s what the achievement medal was for. (0:50:19) Interviewer: Okay. Alright, now while you were—you had your career as a Coast Guard reservist, what kind of work were you doing in civilian life? Veteran: When I was living in Illinois for the most part, it was marketing support, and the same in Cleveland. And then when I moved here to Michigan, mostly how do I support the sales people in the organization that I am working for. It had to do with advertising and sales meetings and all that sort of thing. Interviewer: Okay. And out of what company did you work for the longest, do you think? �Veteran: The longest would have been Allis-Chalmers in Illinois. I worked there 23 years. At that time, they were building engines in Harvey, Illinois and lift trucks when I first started there. And then they built a new engine plant in Harvey and they built a new lift truck plant in Matteson, Illinois, so I worked there for a while before I moved on to Cleveland. Interviewer: Okay. And then did you stay with sort of heavy equipment manufacturers, or did you do other things? Veteran: Yeah, when I moved to Cleveland, we moved to a competitor there. There were 12 people that, over a period of about a year and a half, left Allis-Chalmers and went to Baker Material Handling in Cleveland. And they built lift trucks just like we did there. We saw the handwriting on the wall I think in—at Allis-Chalmers. Had a beautiful plant, had a great product. We sold more lift trucks to the U.S. government than any other manufacturer in the United States, but we saw the handwriting on the wall that they were slowly deteriorating as an organization, Allis-Chalmers in general, whether it be farm trucks, construction machinery, lift trucks, engines, whatever. About a year after I left, the business was sold to a dealer in Ohio, who ultimately peddled it to a place in Sweden, and it no longer exists so we went to a competitor. And then one of the folks at Baker, who knew me from Allis-Chalmers, said I am moving to Midland Heavy Duty brake in Owosso, do you want to come with me? I really didn’t want to move again, I was only in Cleveland for three years. But I did, and then later on, in 1988, they were sold and they were building a new headquarters in Kansas City, and my wife and family said, do we really want to move again? I said well I do, but I knew they didn’t so then I went to work for a petroleum manufacturer here in—or a petroleum distributer here in Grand Rapids, and spent the rest of my time there. (0:53:13) Interviewer: Alright. Are you retired now? �Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: So when did you retire then? Veteran: Last I really worked was about 2 years ago. After I retired on a full-time basis, I worked as a consultant for 4, 5 years and then drove cars for Hertz Corporation between airports between Grand Rapids and Detroit, Traverse City and so forth. But about two years ago I said, hey I am 78 years old, that’s enough, I got enough. Interviewer: Alright. Look back on your career in the Coast Guard, are there other memories or events or things that kind of stand out? Anything you’ve got on your list there that, I guess, we haven’t covered? Veteran: No, I think you pretty much covered everything. There was one, one quick thing that happened maybe in—when I was in the unit in Gary. Just kind of a funny thing if we’ve got time for that? (0:54:09) Interviewer: Yep, yep, yep, oh yeah. Veteran: I was teaching a class, I was a chief engineman at that time, I was teaching a class and there was an announcement over the loud speaker system that there was an emergency phone call for me, so I turned the class over to another fellow, grabbed the phone. And it was my wife. We had just moved into a house that we had bought, it was an old house, and had fixed it up and just painted the bedroom and all of that sort of stuff and it was white and she had a new bedspread and so forth. So she said there’s a bird in the bedroom. I said I am 22 miles away, what do you want me to do with the bird? So she called her father who lived next door. He came over with a broom. He was going to beat it to death in the bedroom. She said no you aren’t. So we knew that the police department had, I forgot what they call that, a gun that kills—or doesn’t kill animals… �Interviewer: Like a tranquilizer, or something like that? Veteran: Yeah, a tranquilizer, we knew that. So she said, and when I hung up, I said what do you want me to do? She said I will take care of it. So she dialed the police and said I’ve got a bird in my bedroom, can you bring the tranquilizer gun over? And the cop said, lady, this is not for birds, this is for animals. And she said well, what do you want me to do? And he said open the window. And she did and the bird flew out. So I’ll never forget it, I’ll never forget what I was doing that day. It was really—I could go on about that story for hours but, that’s it. Interviewer: Alright, now overall, what do you think you took out of your time with the Coast Guard? What did you learn from it or how did it effect you? Veteran: I think that leadership was the most important thing. It went hand in hand with my civilian job. The last civilian job that I had at Midland, we purchased 9 companies in 8 years and melded them into the organization. So there was a constant turmoil, a change of people to work with. My boss at one time, who was my boss for all except about 6 months at Midland, when we had bought—we had purchased a company in Syracuse, New York. He moved to Syracuse and was there for about a year and a half, so our only communication was every two or three months. We’d meet at an airport somewhere to discuss what was going on, otherwise everything happened on the phone, and I think the Coast Guard really contributed to that. Being able to be a leader and at the same time, as an officer, in some cases to act on your own, which I then did in civilian life. (0:56:56) Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: But I think overall, a love of country was really the main factor. �Interviewer: Alright. But now you’ve reminded me of another question I wanted to kind of bring in…You’ve, as an enlisted man staying in one place for a long time, you would have—and then eventually as an officer—but you would have seen a lot of changes in command and things like that. How common was it for, say, you were in Gary for 21 years, for base commanders or high-ranking people, to kind of move on or change positions? Veteran: Commanding officers of most of the reserve units at that time had a job for about three years, so I saw about five or six, maybe seven in that time that I was there. But that was kind of an unwritten rule: every three years, we had a new commanding officer. And there was a way for those folks to move on too. They then became inspectors for the district office, became training people for the district office, where they would write training programs and so forth. So many of those folks got 20, 25 years in as well. (0:58:09) Interviewer: Okay. Now, was it always kind of an adventure when a new guy came in? Did they kind of come in and want to show who’s boss? Or did they just want to fit in or--? Veteran: A little bit of everything, I guess. But for the most part, you knew who those people were because they would be an executive officer before being promoted to be the commanding officer of a unit. So if you were there with them, as I was, you knew those folks for at least 5, 6 years before they became commanding officer. Training unit, and then executive officer, and then commanding officer. Interviewer: Okay, so it’s not like they are usually coming in from the outside? Or are total unknowns when they come in. Veteran: Rarely, rarely. That did happen at the unit in Muskegon. The commanding officer there lived in Detroit, so he drove from Detroit to Muskegon for his weekends. And I lived in Ada and �drove over there. There was another officer, training officer, who drove from Flint. So, and those were all—all three of us were new at that unit. All at the same time, all on the same day. That was a little hairy. Interviewer: So when you go into a situation like that, how do you handle it, or deal with the personnel who are already there? Veteran: I guess at that point in time, you know, I had been in for 29 years, and I often thought about it on the active duty that you went on each year for two weeks. My feeling was that when you arrive there on Sunday, you better find out who you are living with and who you can live with and who you don’t think you can live with, because you are going to be sleeping in the same place for two weeks, you’re going to eat with them, you’re going to go on liberty with them and whatever. So by that time you had done it so many times, it really didn’t bother you. (1:00:01) Interviewer: Now does it help that the Coast Guard is a relatively small group? Is there kind of a standard way of doing things that’s pretty common, from one place to another? Veteran: Yeah, if you get transferred from one ship to another, many of the things are the same. Or if you get transferred from one base to another, things are pretty much the same. I have been at the Coast Guard bases as a civilian, I’ve been on Maui and in Honolulu, and they operate the same as they do in Chicago or over here in Grand Haven. (1:00:34) Interviewer: Alright. Well, you’ve got a good story and you lay it out very nicely for us, so I’d just like to close here by thanking you for taking the time to come in and share it today. Veteran: I appreciate it, and I hope it inspires some other folks to join. (1:00:46) �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_SmitsW2141V Title A name given to the resource Smits, Wendall (Interview transcript and video), 2017 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-07-06 Description An account of the resource Wendall Smits was born in South Holland, Illinois in 1936. After graduating high school, a friend convinced him to join the Coast Guard Reserve at the age of 17. He completed two weeks of boot camp in 1955 at Cape May, New Jersey and became an engineman for the Coast Guard aboard various ships. He then became a chief engineman and, later, a lieutenant with a unit in Chicago before transferring to a Coast Guard unit in Gary, Indiana. After moving to Cleveland, Ohio, he was promoted to the position of warrant officer, and then to a Lieutenant Junior Grade. Smits primarily worked for port security at the various bases bases he was stationed at and also trained recruits for his Coast Guard units as a training officer. He was later awarded the Coast Guard Achievement Medal for his work rewriting engineering programs and engineering training manuals for the entire 9th district in Gary, Indiana. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smits, Wendall L. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Coast Guard Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/47bc1a8e5425c33c66c48fe57c5a5943.mp4 662c6efa05430013ec4c47db41d5b579 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/46866d3a931b98b746cbd5afcc88ff94.pdf 80fc66e8de1cb25ab2697bc74f6b7532 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Lloyd and Grace Smock World War II Total Time: 1:06:30 Early Childhood and Birth (0:00:17) • • • • • • • • • • Grace Morley (now Smock) was born in Wyandot, Michigan in 1925. (00:31) Lloyd Smock was born in Wyandot, Michigan in 1921. Grace had one brother and attended High School in Wyandot. Lloyd attended High School in Wyandot and his father worked as an accountant. Grace’s father worked as a pipefitter, and her mother worked as a homemaker. Grace and Lloyd attended high school in Wyandot. (0:10:30) Grace graduated high school in 1943 and Lloyd graduated in 1939. Lloyd attended Western Michigan College, and he was there when Pearl Harbor was attacked. (0:12:00) Lloyd joined up with the Air Force in February 1942, but he was not called up to active duty until February 1943. He was sworn into the inactive reserve in July, 1942. (0:13:40) Grace had tried to visit a Naval Station on the day Pearl Harbor was attacked. She was not let in, and then heard about the attack on the radio. Training (0:15:30) • • • • • • • Lloyd took his basic training in Fresno, California. (0:17:17) He then attended on-the-site pilot training in Reno, Nevada at the University of Nevada. He had an instructor who was an Alaskan bush pilot. (0:18:28) He was then sent to Santa Ana, California where he took intense coursework. However, shortly before he was to graduate, he was eliminated from the program due to high altitude night blindness. (0:19:08) He was then sent to Amarillo Air Force Base, Texas, where he was approached about he Army Specialized Training Program. He applied and was accepted. (0:19:43) He was subsequently sent to Oklahoma A&M and then to Lehigh University for training. The training program sent two people to work on the Manhattan Project. He was not sent, however, and was assigned to the Signal Corp, specifically the 56th Signal Repair Company, with whom he worked on a base in Texas. (0:22:01) The main compliment of the 56th was a National Guard company from Minnesota. (0:22:29) Was then sent to Fort Monmouth, New Jersey, where he remained until the Battle of the Bulge broke out in Europe. The base was closed and all of the men were sent to Fort Polk, Louisiana for intensive infantry training. �• • • • • • • • • • (0:23:10) Half of the men at the camp were sent to Europe as replacements for the men lost at the Battle of the Bulge. The other half were reorganized and sent to TX and then to Boston where they were shipped to Europe as the 56th Signal Repair Company. Lloyd was in the latter group. (0:24:36) They shipped out of Boston, Massachusetts April 16, 1945 for Le Havre, France. He was sent on the USS Washington. They didn’t encounter any danger on the crossing. (0:26:05) They moved inland to Rouen, France once they landed, to Camp Lucky Strike. VE Day occurred while they were at the camp. Their main objective was to help attended to the American POWs that were being released from German prison camps. They did not deal with the hospital casualties, however. They worked primarily logistical support for the effort. (0:28:45) They also did some work destroying German stockpiles of electronics in Belgium. (0:30:50) Grace worked in personnel at a factory from 1943-1947, and she left the company when she was expecting her first child. (0:33:29) Lloyd was given orders to report to Marseilles, France where he boarded a ship to Manila, Philippines. (0:34:55) They sailed through the Panama Canal, and was around 600 miles south of Hawaii when the ship got word about VJ Day. Their ship circled for some time before they were given orders to continue sailing for the Philippines because they had many doctors and nurses on board to assist with POWs coming out of Japanese prison camps. (0:35:38) He was sent to a camp in San Fernando, north of Manila. There, he helped with warehouse sorting and helping to root out a couple of Japanese soldiers that were still hold up in the hills. (0:37:08) His unit was going to be part of the invasion of Japan if it would have occurred. (0:38:40) They were in the Philippines for 7 months, leaving in March 1946. They were shipped to Oakland, California and sent to Camp McCoy, Wisconsin by train for discharge. Post-War (39:13) • Lloyd was well received upon his return home. • (40:10) He was able to get work at Chicago and Southern Airlines in Detroit, Michigan, however he eventually went back to working at Wyandot Chemicals. • Lloyd and Grace met at a dance in 1946 and married in 1947. • Lloyd eventually got a job at a bank. • Grace worked in the legal business until 1976 when she began caring for her parents • (0:53:43) Lloyd joined the Masons in 1955 and Grace joined Eastern Star in 1954. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SmockLG Title A name given to the resource Smock, Lloyd and Grace (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smock, Lloyd Smock, Grace Description An account of the resource Lloyd and Grace Smock were both born in Wyandot, Michigan. Lloyd served in the Army during World War II. He served in the 56th Signal Repair Battalion. His unit was initially sent to France and Belgium, however after VE day they were sent to the Philippines. Generally, they spent their time destroying enemy electronics stockpiles and equipment. When Lloyd returned, he met and married Grace. Lloyd worked at a bank and Grace worked in the legal business. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-12-30 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cf82df6a875493927725a9d512bb60ef.pdf 63427a4410d05af5d9957007bbc5c54a PDF Text Text J~Ji r;JJ~ {ljfab &. !J'~ CflJo-odrtff 1/Wite,~ w- th,ejr. §mf«m, 1P~ { J ~ foze ,22y {!}&6 -2.·cJO ~.nv. A POWWOW Jfjtu- tll,b ~~ ~Jouv IL& 1/V ceidrradMb p/Jt?y WtUv (HV- IP mi/d~ ~ ~ (H;/lM,{)fi~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~~&~~ Drums .c "' L E o Ceremonial Grounds s ,.. . - i~ E Red Flasrnng Lignt - ~~ Four Winds Bonfire .:;-,: . • ~ _A.Ppte Dr Mt.:sKegon ~ .> ~]Ill - 1-96 Expressway to Grand Rapids · . -. ~·· . • ,1 : 0rt~'S CCl,f{lll.J/y(.,/o-r- O-t1L--fl:doo-rnfa.. {i]mtJ' a, 6/anA.e.t, ~ .wnzetizuy;, w- &t., Oll,; ~ .,. . . ,. ,·.I /' } .f ., ~'/!',,rr > <f ..,-:-.(>_t?,."J,,..i'-' / , .<>1 • l't)..-'_·././ F.Tr:,ltn _,, n /''11' ,._, ,.,,....,, ~ ,/J..,4 .(7,('.,., ~""f~' ·, ·I � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Native American Publication Collection Subject The topic of the resource Native Americans Indians of North America Anthropology Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals Michigan Description An account of the resource Selected digital surrogates of published and unpublished materials from the Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection dealing with different aspects of human culture and anthropology, with an emphasis on Native American people, events, organizations, and activities in Michigan. Includes newsletters, event programs, flyers, posters and other printed materials. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gillis, Edward V. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American Publication Collection (RHC-14)</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-02-21 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Gi-gikinomaage-min Project (Kutsche Office of Local History) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-14 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1958-2000 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection, RHC-14</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-14_smoke-signal-indian-wedding_1985-06 Title A name given to the resource Smoke Signal Indian Wedding and Pow Wow, June 1985 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1985-06 Description An account of the resource Smoke Signal Indian Wedding and Pow Wow flyer, Nunica MI, June 22, 1985, collected by Edward Gillis included as part of his Native American publication collection. Subject The topic of the resource Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals Indians of North America Michigan Michigan -- Grand Rapids Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/be7029beaa6cf25f4c2241ee02cf8853.mp4 f38487b4bc6fa06cc7ccf649c1a231c1 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/995bfb7e3bd322bf57981c8f30b38f40.pdf 399eded3937418530a3b6570b53d9f4b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Bob Smoker Vietnam War 1 hour 26 minutes 39 seconds (00:00:12) Early Life -Born on October 25, 1949 in York, Pennsylvania -Grew up there -Mother worked in a department store -Father worked for a heating and plumbing company -Delivered fuel, oil, and worked on air conditioners -Graduated from high school in 1967 -Granted a scholarship to Williamsport Area Community College -Sponsored by GTE Sylvania to pursue a degree in tool making -After first year of college felt like it was high school all over again -Tried for a second year and dropped out after the second year -Shortly after dropping out of college he began his apprenticeship with GTE Sylvania (00:01:27) Awareness of the War and Getting Drafted -Aware of the Vietnam War and the draft during his adolescence -Had some friends who had been deferred because they were apprentices for various trades -He wasn’t allowed a deferment because he had dropped out of college -Wasn’t surprised that he was eventually drafted -Noticed that in Vietnam it looked like continuous combat based on the news coverage -Followed some of the politics during 1968 -Received his draft notice in April 1969 -Reported for his Army physical -Didn’t notice anyone trying to avoid getting drafted (00:03:30) Basic Training -Went to Fort Dix, New Jersey for basic training -Went to the induction center in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania prior to basic training -Boarded a troop train and had been put in charge of tickets for the recruits -Due to miscommunication concerning the tickets they all arrived late to Fort Dix -Wasn’t punished for his mistake though -Remembers taking a lot of tests before training actually began -Army was seeing who would be good for what roles and who was fit for service -Received physical, hand to hand combat, and weapons training -Remembers marching and taking hikes in the sand as part of physical training -There was a lot of emphasis on military discipline and following orders -Didn’t have any personal difficulty with following orders -Kept a low profile to avoid being noticed by the drill sergeants -Trained alongside a variety of men that were other draftees -Some had a college education, came from a variety of ethnic backgrounds -His drill sergeant had been to Vietnam -Occasionally would give advice about fighting and surviving in Vietnam �-Didn’t find the physical aspects of basic training all that hard due to being in good shape -Basic training lasted eight weeks (00:09:07) Advanced Infantry Training (AIT) -After basic training applied for a compassionate reassignment -Father was in a veterans’ hospital and wanted to stay stateside for his father -With a compassionate reassignment it would have delayed AIT and deployment -Application process took forever -Eventually got denied compassionate reassignment anyway -Sent to Fort Lewis, Washington for AIT -Advanced Infantry Training was a more intensive version of basic training -Went through the SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape) program -Knowing how to survive cutoff from your unit and how to survive being captured -Trained with heavy weapons -Specifically missile launchers, grenade launchers, and heavy machine guns -Practiced combat maneuvers -Participated in larger scale war games where rifles were replaced with BB guns -Trained how to execute a “rifle quick kill” -Point at target, fire, and kill the target without looking at the target -Felt that he did well with weapons training -Trained by Vietnam veterans as well as “shake and bake” sergeants -“Shake and bake” sergeants: gained their rank in an NCO school, not in combat -They were not trained how to deal with the Vietnamese populace during AIT -Spent eight weeks in AIT (00:14:06) Deployment to Vietnam -After Advanced Infantry Training he was sent home on a thirty days leave -Arrived in Vietnam in October 1969 -First had to travel on his own to Oakland, California -Spent three days being processed by the Army there -Flew over to Vietnam on a commercial airliner -Stopped at Hawaii, Wake Island, and then the Philippines -Allowed to walk around the airports when the plane stopped at each place (00:16:00) Arrival in Vietnam -Landed in Bien Hoa, Vietnam at night -First impression of Vietnam was that it was hot and humid -No enemy activity upon their arrival -Assigned a place to stay as well as put on a rotation for guard duty -Felt a lot of uncertainty during his first days in country -Stayed on the base so he didn’t know what the countryside was like yet -Spent a couple days at Bien Hoa before he was assigned to the 101st Airborne Division -Went through SERTS at Camp Ray near Saigon -SERTS: Screaming Eagle Replacement Training School -Physical training, introduction to 101st, jungle survival, introduction to Vietnam -Doesn’t ever remember any real world application of what he learned in SERTS (00:19:40) Assignment to Charlie Company -Flew up to join the division at Camp Evans in a C-130’s cargo hold -Got assigned to Charlie Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Regiment �-Charlie Company was in the field when he arrived at Camp Evans -Pulled bunker duty on the perimeter of Camp Evans waiting to join Charlie Company -Got flown out to a firebase in the Lowlands onboard a helicopter to join C Company -Wound up being the first time he ever rode on a helicopter -Fairly quiet at the firebase Charlie Company was operating out of -Could see fighting in the hills and the mountains at night -Was instructed to observe the other soldiers and follow all the orders that were given to him -Was not given any kind of formal introduction to the unit (00:24:40) Conditions in the Field -Went out on patrol for a few weeks at a time -After patrols the unit would return to a firebase or to Camp Evans -Always got transported via helicopter to and from firebases -Recalls how every plant in the jungle seemed to have thorns on it -Amazed that no one ever seemed to get the cold or the flu while in the field -Learned quickly to keep quiet and to keep track of his supplies -Once your supplies ran out you would have to wait for a resupply to happen -Soldiers were allowed to smoke cigarettes in the field -Not allowed to at night though, so as to maintain light discipline -Never encountered drugs other than one time when they were sent to an abandoned firebase -Found a bag of marijuana that the soldiers had left behind -Wound up destroying it -Original commander of Charlie Company was a gung ho type leader -Wanted to make sure that C Company was involved in all available action (00:30:14) Operating in the Lowlands -Stayed in the hills until the monsoon set in -During patrols the unit would dig in during the day and move at night -Also set up ambushes at night -Operated in the Lowlands to insure that they could be resupplied -Usually worked at the platoon level, sometimes even broke down into the squad level -Remembers when Captain Vazquez became their commanding officer -Heard rumors about his grit, tenacity, and former Special Forces career -Also heard that he was a strong and effective leader worthy of respect -With him as their commander they always stayed off the trails and cut through the foliage -More difficult to cut through the jungle, but always proved to be safer -Eventually got sent on a mission to secure a landing zone that would become Firebase Gladiator -While at that firebase heard about how a sister platoon had been wiped out (00:33:43) Establishing Firebase Ripcord -In the spring of 1970 Operation Texas Star (also known as the Ripcord Campaign) began -At the start of the campaign had no idea how big of a deal Firebase Ripcord was going to be -His company, Charlie Company, was the third company to be sent in to secure the hilltop -Eventually managed to clear out the enemy forces and secure the hilltop -Had noticed an increased amount of enemy activity prior to the assault on the hill -Once the hilltop had been secured a perimeter was established and engineers were moved in -Spent most of their time building perimeter defenses -Bunkers, digging trenches, setting up land mines, and laying down wire -Had to dig all of their defensive positions by hand �-While building up Firebase Ripcord they didn’t receive enemy fire -After Firebase Ripcord was established his unit was returned to the field (00:38:12) Spring and Early Summer of 1970 -During April, May and June of 1970 his unit carried out mostly search and destroy missions -Noticed a marked increase in enemy activity during this time -Got sent out on a bomb damage assessment mission during this time -Went down into a valley and spent the night there -During their time in the valley they noticed enemy movement towards Ripcord -Upon returning to base got debriefed by an intelligence officer -Told that enemy forces were building up and moving towards Ripcord -Engaged in sporadic firefights over the course of the spring and early summer -Usually brief engagements with the enemy -During this time got assigned the “over under” -Experimental design of the M16 rifle with an attached grenade launcher -Also became a supply representative for his unit -Checked on what supplies were needed -Transmitted those needs back to a base for more effective resupply missions (00:42:25) Battle of Ripcord-Hill 902 -At the end of June 1970 he was moved over to Hill 902 ` -One of the key hills surrounding the main hill for Firebase Ripcord -On July 1st the Battle of Ripcord began to intensify and the enemy stepped up their attacks -Hill 902’s main value was in spotting and targeting of enemy positions -His unit spent two nights in a row in the same positions on Hill 902 -Strategically bad move, too predictable -He hadn’t been assigned anything other than to simply be another person on Hill 902 -When the attack began on Hill 902 he had to run from the barracks to his foxhole -Didn’t even have time to put his boots on -Remembers a huge amount of light and noise -Gunfire, screaming, explosions, and the light from flares and artillery -Realized that Vietnamese forces had broken their line and were deep within their territory -Instinctively shot and killed an attacking Vietnamese soldier -Implemented the “rifle quick kill” technique that he had learned in training -Was able to use a grenade to effectively kill a group of dug in Vietnamese soldiers -After the firefight helped to secure the perimeter and look for Vietnamese survivors -Remembers watching as Cobra attack helicopters provided fire support -Managed to make it through the fighting at Hill 902 uninjured -Believes that the charging Vietnamese overlooked his position -As it got lighter he could see jets flying bombing raids on the remaining Vietnamese (00:53:19) Battle of Ripcord-Interim and New Commander -Got taken off Hill 902 and was rotated back to Firebase Ripcord -Company captain [Hewitt, recent replacement for Vazquez] was killed and replaced by Captain Wilcox -He was able to serve as Wilcox’s radio operator for a short time -Walked over to Hill 805 under the leadership of Captain Wilcox -Whole area felt tense after the attack on Hill 902 like an attack could happen at any time -Had been impressed by Captain Wilcox since they were first introduced �(00:56:50) Battle of Ripcord-Hill 1000 -His unit was sent over to Hill 1000 on July 8, 1970 -Very close to Firebase Ripcord and extremely strategic -D Company had tried to assault Hill 1000 earlier and failed -C Company was going to work with D Company for a second assault -On the morning of July 8 artillery and air raids bombarded the hill -So intense that shrapnel was still falling from the sky when they walked up the hill -Managed to reach the top of the hill without incident -Once they reached the top that’s when the Vietnamese opened fire -Company’s medic was killed on the hilltop -Received word that a large enemy force was moving towards their position -Advised to retreat from the hill and regroup at a landing zone -Had no idea what had become of D Company -Regrouped at landing zone and Captain Wilcox defied a direct order from Colonel Lucas -Colonel Lucas wanted a second assault, Wilcox knew it was suicide -Second assault was abandoned, but Wilcox was relieved of command (01:04:04) End of the Ripcord Campaign and End of Tour -Throughout July 1970 the fighting around Firebase Ripcord only intensified -Vietnamese attacks got more vicious and chipped away at the resolve of the troops -Remembers that after Hill 1000 C Company joined D Company to rescue D Company, 1st/506th for an operation -Helping to secure a landing zone so troops could be evacuated out of the area -On July 22/23 Firebase Ripcord was abandoned and bombed by B52 bombers -Last ditch effort to wipe out Vietnamese troops that were attacking the firebase -By this time C Company had been evacuated and put on station at Camp Evans -Last major assignment was to be assigned to Firebase Rakkasan -Acted as the supply representative for the firebase -Was starting to count down the days to being sent home (01:08:40) Drugs, Civilians, and Morale -Doesn’t ever recall seeing or hearing about soldiers using drugs -Soldiers would occasionally drink beer and get drunk on base during downtime -Never ran into Vietnamese civilians during his tour -Towards the end of his tour he started to notice racial tensions building up -Remembers hearing about a racially motivated incident at “Rocket Ridge” -Didn’t know the details -Heard that it had been resolved peacefully though -In general most men wanted to follow orders and do their job as best as they could -Just wanted to help each other survive and get home -In the field he noticed that they were always able to act effectively as a unit (01:12:49) A R&R in Australia -Received an R&R while in Vietnam -Picked Australia to be his destination -Took his R&R there in May 1970 before the Ripcord Campaign intensified -Australia was an eye opening experience for him -Got scammed by a local woman and wound up losing most of his money there �(01:14:30) Coming Home and Leaving the Army -Went to Cam Ranh Bay and got processed out there -Flew back to Fort Lewis, Washington -Spent a day there -Prior to leaving Vietnam got promoted to the rank of sergeant -Being a sergeant he was assigned to Hunter Army Air Field in Savannah, Georgia -After a short leave home reported to Hunter Army Air Field -Given easy assignments because he was a sergeant and an infantryman -Never experienced any war protestors or harassment upon coming home -At the end of his service the Army made an effort to get him to reenlist -Declined, just wanted to get out and go back to being a civilian -Got discharged on May 12, 1971 (01:17:37) Life after the War -Went back to work for GTE Sylvania -Eventually completed his apprenticeship as a toolmaker -Worked for them until about 1981/1982 -In 1975 started attending Bible College -Graduated from there in 1981 -Went to seminary and wound up being a pastor at a church in Vermont -In 2001 became a fulltime pastor -Prior to that had also worked in a machine shop -After becoming a fulltime pastor became a part time machine shop worker -Acted as a full time pastor until 2010 (01:19:00) Volunteerism in Vietnam -In 2001 got a call asking if he wanted to go back to Vietnam for mission work -Accepted the offer and in January 2002 went to Vietnam for three weeks -Met with American missionaries and Cambodian church builders in Ho Chi Minh City -Worked on teaching Vietnamese villagers English -Had to go over as a “tourist” and not as an official missionary -Learned that the new experiences in Vietnam replaced the old memories he had -Has since returned, and continues to return to Vietnam with groups of Vietnam veterans -Associating the country with a positive experience has been extremely therapeutic (01:22:40) Reflections on Service and Mission Work -Harbors no resentment towards the Vietnamese people -Feels that God has given him so much and he should share himself with everyone -Wants to continue to help the rural Vietnamese to learn English -Wants to repay the debt that he feels he owes to God -Has never been harassed by Vietnamese officials for being a Christian -In fact they welcomed an American who is willing to help the people -Wants to continue to work to show veterans that Vietnam is now how they remember it -Finds it a shame that Vietnam is so closely associated with the war and the culture ignored -At the end of the day just wants to help veterans not to be stuck with old, bitter memories � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_SmokerR1656V Title A name given to the resource Smoker, Robert (Interview outline and video), 2014 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-07-08 Description An account of the resource Bob Smoker was born in 1949 in York, Pennsylvania. He grew up there and graduated from high school there in 1967. He attended college briefly, and then took a job, which cost him his deferment. In April 1969 he received his draft notice and shortly thereafter began basic training at Fort Dix, New Jersey. After Fort Dix he was sent to Fort Lewis, Washington for Advanced Infantry Training and upon completing that he was deployed to Vietnam in October 1969. He arrived in Bien Hoa and was assigned to the 101st Airborne Division. After completing Screaming Eagle Replacement Training School at Camp Ray (near Saigon) he was sent up to Camp Evans and was assigned to Charlie Company,2nd of the 506th Regiment 101st Airborne Division. During his time in Vietnam he participated in patrols of the Lowlands, in Operation Texas Star (the establishment of Firebase Ripcord in the spring of 1970) and the subsequent Battle of Firebase Ripcord during July 1970. After leaving Vietnam he finished his service at Hunter Army Air Field, Georgia and was discharged from the Army on May 12, 1971. After a professional career, he became a minister and got involved with a group of American missionaries that work in Vietnam to help teach the rural Vietnamese English and to help American Vietnam War veterans find peace with their memories. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smoker, Robert Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/71abb0460dd5f042fe4d65c757f1234e.jpg 423a268124216a61792029e2609a9faf Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-July-1962-4 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1962-07 Title A name given to the resource Smoking Description An account of the resource A black and white image of two men. The one closest to the camera sits and has a bottle in his hand. The man in the back stands with a cigarrette in his mouth. A sign in the top right corner appears to read Toadville, and there is a gun hanging under it. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file collected by the Kutsche Office of History as part of the Stories of Summer Project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1ae4a2c3d0aa34cff51d8c04a1375241.jpg 7170c028bef9eb8ee36bafed56e66dd6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_589 Title A name given to the resource SNJ-AT-6 trainer Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource SNJ-AT-6 trainer, October 1, 1947. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Slides Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1947-10-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cd8126302d9aba4a49114b79ea3f4cf1.jpg 7380f5f12b9373e29c2e3839ac62516f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Valley State University Photographs Subject The topic of the resource Aerial photographs Universities and colleges Michigan Grand Rapids (Mich.) Allendale (Mich.) Building Facilities Dormitories Students Events 1960s 1970s 1980s 1990s 2000s Description An account of the resource People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource News & Information Services. University Communications Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News &amp; Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-03-03 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s-2000s Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Local Subject Subject headings specific to a particular image collection 1970s Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01_UAPhotos_000901 Title A name given to the resource Snow banks along path to Kirkhof Center Description An account of the resource Snow banks along path to Kirkhof Center. Subject The topic of the resource Facilities Grand Valley State University Michigan Allendale (Mich.) Universities and colleges Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives black and white photo https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d64b8aac33dd714ef1de080810fe29cf.jpg d1d338c9dd0babfd9bbf1ac9bf0180d5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. PS3545.A73 S66 1899 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0293 Title A name given to the resource Snow on the Headlight Description An account of the resource Binding of Snow on the Headlight, by C.Y. Warman, published by D. Appleton & Co., 1899. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1899 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8a63cb762aae0772b3a1da1deb98417a.jpg 7587adadaa779385aee4de9ccf79bce7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Valley State University Photographs Subject The topic of the resource Aerial photographs Universities and colleges Michigan Grand Rapids (Mich.) Allendale (Mich.) Building Facilities Dormitories Students Events 1960s 1970s 1980s 1990s 2000s Description An account of the resource People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource News & Information Services. University Communications Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News &amp; Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-03-03 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s-2000s Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Local Subject Subject headings specific to a particular image collection 1960s Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01_UAPhotos_000269 Title A name given to the resource Snow sculpture of Lake Michigan freighter Description An account of the resource Students view snow sculpture of freighter at the Winter Carnival. Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Allendale (Mich.) Universities and colleges Students Winter carnivals Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives black and white photo https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b3d639b00553da8080fc210c1bf2619d.jpg 6564c24825433a4c4d6e0fa5ce4a7046 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e0fc2eeab3831f9d7f7f80d93a2e6712.jpg da99533357f28d7b8227ab6ae0402ca1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-Walsh-J_0081 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Walsh, Jerri Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1967-03-22 Title A name given to the resource Snow-covered sand dunes overlooking the Kalamazoo River Description An account of the resource Photograph featuring snow-covered dunes surrounding the Kalamazoo River in the area that appears to be Oxbow Lagoon. The sky is gray and trees are in the distance. . The handwriting on the back of the photograph reads: "Wed., March 22, '67. Easter, Saugatuck. Lake Behind The Lighthousekeeper's house. Jerry Kelly." Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Sand dunes Kalamazoo River (Mich.) Snow Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file contributed by Jerri Walsh as part of the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives