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Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. &#13;
&#13;
Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections.&#13;
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&#13;
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                    <text>GV043-07
Connected Exhibit Interviews
Interviewee: Scott Thorbjornsen
Interviewers: Gayle Schaub
Date: April 26, 2016

Gayle:
Scott:

Ok, alright whatever you want to tell me about. So, anything. Like, what’s your
major? I’ll ask you some questions.
00:09 My major is Allied Health Sciences with an emphasis in speech language pathology.
I initially wanted to go into physical therapy, and then after my freshman year and
seeing how competitive it was I didn’t have the drive I thought I did for it. So I asked
some people around, thought I might do engineering for a little bit but that was I
think a too much of a change. And a girl on the team, she was in the SLP program
and she told me to do it. She said she was having a lot of fun in it, so I started taking
classes for that and got into the undergrad program in my fourth year so now I’m in
it and I’ll have a fifth year to finish the undergrad.

Gayle:
Scott:

Speech Pathology
1:12

Gayle:
Scott:

So is that like, what are you leaning towards? School or?
1:19

Gayle:
Scott:

I’m not sure yet, I want to coach someday so I think a school would be like more
fitting for that but, like right now I just took a course over the brain and the senses
and all that stuff and like aphasias and dementia and that stuff was really interesting
so I might go that way too, we’ll see.
So how did you start rowing? What made you get interested or did somebody rope
you into it?

1:53

Gayle:
Scott:

Yeah, yup.

I was a part of sports ever since I was young, my dad coached, and my older sister
played sports, my younger sister played sports. I just wanted to try something new
and that’s kind of how I went, like when I went to Grand Valley I knew they had a lot
of options. You can find anything you want here basically. So I didn’t want to play
any sport that I played before, and some kid stopped me on the sidewalk and said
“Hey come to this meeting, its rowing” like “Oh I just saw that in the Olympics this
past. So..
So you were recruited.

2:40

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that was 2012 so the summer Olympics had just ended and I
was walking around campus and the guy was like, yeah. He said “come to the
meeting” and I went to the meeting, it seemed fun. I got farther along, went to
some practices and paid my first set of dues and I was like, “Well I guess I’m sticking
around” so…

�Gayle:
Scott:

What were your sports before this?
3:06

Gayle:
Scott:

Wow, but you haven’t done those here?
3:11

Gayle:
Scott:

I played football, I wrestled, and I played baseball.

No. I’d like to get back into wrestling, somehow but…
You don’t mind the weather extremes of rowing?

3:23

Sometimes it gets bad but-

Gayle:

How was the Lubbers regatta?

Scott:

Lubbers cup this year was cold. I think it was…

Gayle:

Worse than when there was ice on the river?

Scott:

3:37

Gayle:
Scott:

[Exhales] Yeah, I think so. I Think Saturday morning when we raced it was hovering
around thirty degrees, maybe a little bit lower. Yeah it was cold. And then we raced
again that day, but later in the afternoon – in the evening – so it was a little warmer.
We raced Sunday morning and it wasn’t too bad but Monday morning it started to
snow so the rest of it got cancelled. Naturally as Lubbers cup goes. I remember my
freshman year, that was really bad. It was a one-day regatta then, so now there’s
two days of it, then it was just one day and it was like just down pouring rain, wind,
like whitecaps on the lake. We raced, we won, which was awesome, because we
beat Michigan which doesn’t happen very often. So, yeah we won, and I remember
I was just like, shivering for at least thirty minutes after the race was over. It was
cold, but it was a lot of fun too.
What’s the best and worst thing about rowing?

5:00

The best thing about rowing…well I guess the first, best thing about rowing is just
like the friendships you make. Like I’m close with a lot of people and even if I’m not
close with them I’ve met a lot of people through rowing, whether they’ve rowed or
not like friends of friends, you make a lot of connections. It’s kind of similar to a
fraternity in that way, in like, you just meet a lot of people and you bond over
rowing. But it’s not just a fraternity though. Like we’re all competing and we’re all
working for a goal at the end of the year. And the second best thing I guess is the
types of challenges you face, like keeping everything in perspective. Knowing that
what you’re doing now, like the adversity you face is just building you into a better,
more prepared person for your future. I know there’s a lot of kids who leave the
team because they feel they’re not being productive enough in, like, building for
their future, but rowing and there are other club sports where you put in just as
much time or a lot of hard work and a lot of dedication like wrestling. And when
people see that you’ve done that and dedicated four years to a sport that physically
demanding, mentally demanding; it takes up a lot of time. They don’t brush that
off, they look at that and they see that and are like “wow that’s impressive, I know
that I can rely on you to be her.” And I think a lot of people see the day to day

�things they’re missing out on. Or they see what other students are doing to get
prepared and they keep comparing themselves and they just don’t look at the
bigger picture or…
Gayle:

It’s difficult though isn’t it? Balancing and-

Scott:

Oh yeah, it’s really-

Gayle:

It’s a lot of work

Scott:

It is a lot of work. Yeah it’s tough.

Gayle:

So you started rowing though, right after you got here?

Scott:

Yeah.

Gayle:

Cause the season is in fall?

Scott:

Yeah.

Gayle:

It’s all year long

Scott:

7:40

Gayle:
Scott:

Did you do the England one?
8:25

Gayle:
Scott:

Its fall, winter, spring, all year. Most people try to stay in shape over the summer, I
failed at that. But I mean, it’s a lot of fun, I’ve had a lot of great experiences. But I
guess the worst thing about rowing is…is all that stuff. A lot of traveling. I mean, it’s
fun to travel, it’s fun to see all these cool places that we’ve been to but it’s a lot of
weekends gone, and it’s a lot missed out, where you could have spent with friends
or family, but you know, it’s a good time.

That’s this summer actually. The last time they went was my freshman year, and
this year we’re going again and I will be attending.
What’s that called?

8:38

It’s called the Henley Royal Regatta, and that’s on the Thames River, just outside of
London

Gayle:

When?

Scott:

The women leave…late May or Early June, and they’re there for ten days. Then we
leave on the 22nd and get back on July 5th, so it’s a good, about ten days there. So
the women must be leaving the 12th.

Gayle:

Where do you stay, in a hotel?

Scott:

I think we have a host family, so we stay in someone’s house.

Gayle:

Cool.

Scott:

Yeah.

Gayle:

Where?

�Scott:

In Henley.

Gayle:

Oh.

Scott:

9:35

Yeah, I couldn’t really tell you much on the location either. Yeah it’s going to be a
lot of fun, I’m excited for it. Yeah, it’s a different style of racing too. Instead of a
heat, a semi, and a final, and you advance each round, this is single elimination. So
you race, it’s one boat, two boat race, and the one who wins moves on and the
other is done for the rest. So, that’s… I don’t know… risky.

Gayle:

But you get to go to England.

Scott:

You get to go to England, which is going to be a lot of fun. Yeah, I’m excited for it.

Gayle:

So, if somebody asked you like what… is there… I don’t know… is there a time or
something that you can think of in your four years… four years? This is your fourth
year?

Scott:

Yeah, it’s my fourth year.

Gayle:

That stands out, because of for any reason, either the thrill of victory or the agony
of defeat. And not just sports, but anything. Like is there a time where you think “oh
God, I’m glad that’s over” or “I wish that would happen again” or something? Do
you have a memorable class or a frustrating class, or something that…

Scott:

10:54 I mean my freshman year was a lot of fun, just cause everyone who was on the
freshman team, guys on the boys side, none of them had rowed before. So we were
all just learning this new sport together, and we were all a bunch of goofballs. And
our coach, it was his first year being the novice first year coach.

Gayle:

Hugh?

Scott:

Yeah, that was Hugh. So yeah, we had a lot of fun just messing around, learning a
new sport, and being dudes on the team. I don’t know.

Gayle:

Do you get nervous? Like for those… I don’t know what they call them. You know
those erg (ergometer, or rowing machine) tests or whatever, the timings? Do you
ever… does that ever effect you, like your head?

Scott:

11:50 I get a little nervous. I do... for like when we have our practices in the winter it’s
really, it’s the same thing week in and week out, routine. But then at the end of our
winter training, our winter season, we have a 2,000 meter race on the erg, and
that’s basically like our last big test before the spring season. So it’s like we build…
where all the winter training is like, kind of leads up to this, and so that’s a little
nerve-wracking because our coach makes it a big deal. So I think he wants us to get
nervous for it. Because he wants us to have – feel that anxiety and get ready for the
spring. But it's because alumni show up, some friends show up, and it’s you, and
you’re lined up with seven other people, and there’s a screen in front of you that
shows like where you’re at compared to the other people. So it’s basically just like a

�race. So that’s a little nerve-wracking, but other than that one it’s not. I don’t
really…
Gayle:
Scott:
Gayle:
Scott:

Gayle:
Scott:

Have you ever like not done the way you wanted? Have you ever wanted something
and not gotten it? Or are you one of the more successful physically?
13:17 No… yeah… I’m… As a rower I’m pretty small. Most guys are six foot or taller. I’m
5’10. I’ve put in – I had to work a little more than some guys I think.
So height’s an advantage?
13:35 Yeah, yeah. But in… yeah, I don’t know there’s seat racing that we do. Last year
when we seat raced I didn’t do so hot, and I was pretty disappointed, but I don’t
know. You just got to keep on going I guess. Like you might get discouraged but
keeping things in perspective and just knowing that if you keep going, keep working,
it’s going to pay off eventually. Like it might not happen now. It could take a year for
it to happen. I mean I know there’s… I mean not me personally, I’ve worked my way
all four years, and I’ve gotten to this point. I’m in the varsity boat now. But there’s…I
know other kids who… they rowed four years at Grand Valley too, but they didn’t
get into the eight, or maybe they rowed a pair all four years. But, you know, they
still showed up and they still put in the work. Because that’s just how it goes.
Yeah. You’d make a lousy coach if you couldn’t do that. You’re a quitter.
14:55 Yeah, so… And there’s kids who put in, you know… They do our practice, and then
they put in an extra 20 minutes a day, just on their own. And that’s just like they
have a lot more passion for rowing than I do. I mean I like rowing but it’s not… I
don’t have like that definite like “this is what I want to do” type thing for it, and I
don’t know if that’s something I’m still looking for. I don’t know. I guess I’m
competitive out of passion for competing. I don’t know. So I just go out there and do
what I can. I guess but…

Gayle:

Is there wrestling at Grand Valley?

Scott:

Yeah there’s a club team.

Gayle:

And you choose not to do that?

Scott:
Gayle:

Scott:

15:46 Yeah I didn’t….Yeah I just wanted to try something different. So I do want to get
back into that, and we’ll see how that happens but… I don’t know.
So what would be the best, like, recruiting technique? Or, not technique but what
did somebody…well you wanted to do it, right? You wanted to do something. But if
somebody were kind of like on the fence, “I’m not sure if I want to do a sport. I’m
new here and I’m not sure if I want to do that.” What would make a good pitch?
16:24 Well for rowing, I think just selling them on the comradery and the amount of
traveling you do. The traveling does get to be a lot, especially after four years of
doing it. It’s a lot, and maybe for freshman too, they see that and maybe they’re

�maybe a little intimidated. But it’s just a great experience to go see Washington
D.C. or San Diego, or Florida…
Gayle:

Yeah.

Scott:

Or Philadelphia, Georgia.

Gayle:

Do you think people should do it if they only want to do it for a year?

Scott:
Gayle:
Scott:

Gayle:

16:57 Yeah, I think there’s a lot of kids who come out for their freshman year and don’t
come back.
Probably more than who stay.
17:08 Yeah, I mean there’s always sixty or seventy freshman in the fall and by the end of
the spring season there’s twenty, maybe. And of those twenty, maybe ten come
back for the next year. And I think those kids who did it their freshman year are
glad they did it their freshman year. I mean I live with two of them…
Oh you live with rowers too?

Scott:

17:41 Yeah I live with two guys who were on my freshman rowing team, and they’re glad
they did it that one year. They loved it but they’re ok with not coming and doing it
again and that’s fine. It’s a hard sport, but it’s a lot of fun and you get a lot out of it.
You learn a lot about yourself, you learn a lot about other people. You learn how to
deal with adversity and…

Gayle:

There might be some academic programs that don’t mesh well with the demands of
the sport though, do you think?

Scott:

18:20 I mean there was a girl last year that was in the nursing program, and she would
have clinicals and class, and she was able to work around it. And there’s two guys in
the engineering program right now, maybe three.

Gayle:
Scott:

That amazes me.
18:36 And they do what they got to do. There was one kid, he did his robot stuff last
Saturday, and so I mean we just move practice for him. So he went and did that and
he’s been doing a bunch of projects this semester. So it is doable, there’s kids
on…there’s been kids who are in business fraternities…

Gayle:

But you can’t go home every weekend?

Scott:

No. No you can’t go home every weekend.

Gayle:

Where are you from?

Scott:

19:14 I’m from Bangor, which is between Kalamazoo and South Haven.

Gayle:

Ok

Scott:

So like an hour south.

�Gayle:
Scott:

But you don’t get home very often?
19:23 No. That’s just, I don’t know. I get caught up in…the going so I just…I forget
sometimes. Just kind of going and going and going and I get a weekend off, and I
just kind of don’t do anything and I think “Oh, I could have gone home”.

Gayle:

Was studying and stuff an adjustment for you when you got to college? Or not? Did
you have a pretty grueling high school program?

Scott:

No, I would say getting…

Gayle:

Like managing your own time?

Scott:

Gayle:
Scott:

19:59 Yeah, there’s definitely a learning curve to that. And in some programs it’s not very
forgiving either. Depending on what you want to do to you got to come in and hit
the ground running. Which is not what I did. But I managed fine I think. I haven’t
done terrible in school…
Any mistakes you learned from that you just say “oh well”?
20:27 Yeah, my freshman year second semester I just kind of, I don’t know, fluffed off on
my classes and didn’t really, care as much as I should have…

Gayle:

What kind of classes?

Scott:

Writing 150, Bio 120, and…

Gayle:

You remember?

Scott:

Yeah, couple other classes, but yeah especially Writing 150. Did the bare minimum
in that class and didn’t put enough effort into it. So I definitely was like…

Gayle:

Well so what did you learn? Like you got a bad grade and went on with it, or did you
have to retake it or?

Scott:

No I didn’t have to retake it, like I didn’t fail it or get below, like I got the credit for it.
I think I got a B-…

Gayle:

(laughs)

Scott:

(laughs) Yeah it’s not bad but…

Gayle:

But you could have done better.

Scott:
Gayle:
Scott:

21:42 Yeah I could have definitely done better. Yeah if I just put forth ten percent more
effort I could have been a B+ or something, I don’t know. But…
Does your program have a secondary admit or something? Was there anything
where grades could be an issue along the way or?
22:00 Yeah, I guess for…There’s an application process to get the emphasis in Speech
Language Pathology so…I had to apply twice for it cause for the first time I went in, I
had an interview and I wasn’t selected. So that was a little rough, like…

�Gayle:
Scott:

Do they tell you why?
22:25 No, not really. I’m thinking though that it was just…they wanted like another year
or whatever to get my GPA up but…I don’t know. So that kind of hurt my pride a
little bit I think like “Oh yeah I’ll get in at this” and I didn’t and just “oh, that’s,
alright…” But I got in the second time and it’s been going well. I like the classes and
I’m in the same class, all my classes are with the same group of people. So I’m
making some good friends in there, too, which is great. It’s a lot of fun, having more
people to relate to in the classes. And to have the support when you’re struggling in
the class like, “Hey, does anyone get this?”

Gayle:

Have you ever used any of the services, like the writing center or the knowledge
market?

Scott:

23:30 Yeah I’ve used the writing center a lot, but other than that… Well I guess when I
had math classes I used the Math Center a few times but… So Math Center and
Writing Center I’ve used but other than that.

Gayle:
Scott:

But they were worth it?
23:55 Yeah, they have good feedback and…And sometimes it’s good going there because,
they give you a little bit of guidance but they don’t just give you the answer.

Gayle:

Mhmm.

Scott:

It’s a little less frustrating. You know you figure it out and you learn it better, and
you learn it for yourself and it’ll stick.

Gayle:

Do you have a favorite professor here? Do you have someone that really stands
out? You don’t have to name them (laughs) like if there was like a disaster.

Scott:

Gayle:
Scott:

Gayle:

24:32 Yeah. In the course evaluations at the end of the year, one question is always like
“did you learn something from this professor?” And I always put yes, no matter like
how bad the course went because you can learn something that’s not related to the
course. You can learn how a better way to teach something would be, or you can
learn how to deal with a pushy person, or someone who doesn’t listen.
Or just a personality that doesn’t work with yours.
25:14 Yeah. Or how to deal with a personality, yeah. So you can learn other skills in the
course even though you might not have learned much in the class. Teachers that
stick out, I don’t know, I’ve had some pretty good professors. I had a good
philosophy professor, philosophy 101, Klaskow I think was his name. I enjoyed it.
Right now my SLP professors are all really good. Rankinen, this is his first year and
he knows his stuff so that’s good. I just did a Student Scholars Day poster with Dr.
Macauley; she’s very passionate, very into what she does. Just loves teaching and
loves being a part of...She still does some clinical so she just loves that stuff and it’s
cool to see how passionate she is.
Did you pursue that or did she suggest you do that?

�Scott:

Gayle:
Scott:

26:32 Well my roommate is friends with her daughter, takes a few classes with her
daughter. And she said “Hey you should do a Student Scholars Day poster” and he
was like, “alright, I don’t know where to start” and she was like “ask my mom.” So
her mom gave him a poster to do and figured out I was his roommate and was like
“you should do it with him.” And I said “I will.” So that’s how that went.
Does that make you think about going to grad school or anything? That process?
27:05 Yeah. For SLP grad school is a requirement so I have to go anyway but yeah.
Research is pretty fun I think, maybe not fun but, doing studies and finding
correlations is fun. But the actual research can be boring sometimes. *laughs*

Gayle:

(laughs) But finding out that you can do it.

Scott:

Yeah.

Gayle:

Were you thinking about grad school when you started college?

Scott:
Gayle:
Scott:

27:47 Yeah, kind of…
You kind of had a big picture in your head.
27:52 Yeah. I wish I didn’t have to go to grad school. I knew I was going towards the
medical field, so I knew it was probably going to be a necessity to go, even though I
don’t really want to go. But it’s alright, it will just be another stepping stone.

Gayle:

Two or three years.

Scott:

Yeah, that will be nice. Grand Valley’s is an accelerated course, so that’s a year and
a half.

Gayle:

So you’re going to do it here?

Scott:

I’m going to try and get in here. Otherwise I’ll go somewhere else, no big deal.

Gayle:

Is that something like your family…I don’t want to say encouraged but…I didn’t
come from a college-going family. I was the only one in my family to go to college.
It wasn’t anything that I really knew that much about and they certainly weren’t
saying “hey you should do this”.

Scott:

29:01 Yeah I think it was expected to go. I have an older sister and a younger sister and I
think for all three of us it was like “you should probably go to college.” I know I was
also thinking about joining the military, and my dad who was in the Air Force was
like, “go to college first and think about it there.” I was like “alright.” I mean, I still
think about joining and getting some grad school money from that and just…but
yeah. Going to college was expected.

Gayle:

I don’t know if I have any other questions. Have you ever done any of the social
events? Have you ever done the President’s Ball or?

Scott:

Yeah I went to the President’s Ball for the first time this year actually.

�Gayle:

Did you like it?

Scott:

Yeah it was fun, different. Something different to do in the college.

Gayle:

I’ve never stayed for the actual music, it’s too much for me.

Scott:

Yeah, we didn’t go to the dinner either so, we just went to the dance. It was fun, I
guess.

Gayle:

I don’t know what other things there are.

Scott:

There was a jazz band in the upstairs part of DeVos, some swing dancing. It was fun.

Gayle:

I mean throughout the year there are other things or do you?

Scott:

30:42 Oh, well there’s always those concerts. I don’t think I’ve been to any of those.

Gayle:

Mostly dedicated to early morning rowing or not. Are there early morning
practices?

Scott:

Sometimes, they’re usually during the evening though.

Gayle:

When it’s warmer.

Scott:

31:08 Yeah. The morning practices are hard when we have them just because you’re half
asleep still but that’s alright.

Gayle:

Ok. I don’t know, anything else? That you can think of. You don’t graduate this
year though you graduate next year?

Scott:

Yeah I graduate next year.

Gayle:

Are you going to go through the ceremony? Are you going to walk across the stage?

Scott:

Probably. Yeah, I don’t have a reason not to.

Gayle:

Kind of exciting.

Scott:

Yeah. Yeah it’ll be good. I’m sure my parents will probably want me to.

Gayle:

I’ll be there. Walt’s going across.

Scott:

Oh yeah?

Gayle:

And my other son will probably be graduating at the same time.

Scott:

Henry?

Gayle:

Yeah.

Scott:

Cool.

Gayle:

I’ll be in the audience, weeping (laughs).

Scott:

(Laughs) Yeah.

�Gayle:

It’s exciting. Have you ever been to one?

Scott:

My sister’s. She graduated from Western.

Gayle:

Here it’s really exciting, and Van Andel. It’s really big. There’s thousands of people,
it’s really loud.

Scott:

32:16 Yeah I’m excited for it, when it comes. One thing that I’m thinking of, when your
parents …Like when we were talking earlier about the weekends off and it’s not
much time to go home. I think this year especially I’m finally realizing how much my
parents mean to me and how much they’ve supported me and what they’ve done.
This year has been eye opening in that how much they’re willing to do and what
they do for me and my sisters.

Gayle:
Scott:

Do you tell them this? (Laughs)
33:07 I do thank them a lot but…yeah. I know when I first came to college my freshman
year I was like “I can finally go off on my own a little bit and figure out what I can do.
Do things on my own and not have a parent over my shoulder every second.”

Gayle:

Where did you live when you first got here?

Scott:

I lived on campus, in Frey. Which is next to North C.

Gayle:

Is it like the suite kind or the dorm room kind?

Scott:

It was like a one room apartment. So it had a small kitchen and a bathroom. Me
and my roommate shared, it was all just like one room with two beds and a small
kitchen.

Gayle:

How was your adjustment? Was it smooth or did you kind of go “ahhh!”?

Scott:

34:07 I was fine. I didn’t have any problems, just kind of jumped right into it.

Gayle:

Did you go through transitions and stuff?

Scott:

Yeah I went to all the transitions. While all my roommate slept through most of
them, all of them.

Gayle:

Did they make a difference did you think? Were they helpful?

Scott:

34:28 If anything it got you out there and talking to your floor mates. You know the
people tried to get you pumped up for the year. Which is good I guess.

Gayle:

But you don’t know what to expect so.

Scott:

Yeah.

Gayle:

I think that’s where getting involved in a sport helps.

Scott:

Yeah.

�Gayle:

I know that was different for Walt to just getting involved right away and having an
immediate, like you said, an immediate group of friends.

Scott:

Yeah. I mean there were kids who were only on the team for like three, four
months. And I still recognize a few of them, say hi and talk to them. You meet a lot
of people in any club sport.

Gayle:

You going to try and maintain these friendships you think? Although if you’re here
at grad school you might.

Scott:

Yeah, there are definitely people here I would like to keep in touch with. Which is
although like something I’m not good at.

Gayle:

Facebook.

Scott:

Yeah, true.

Gayle:

It helps a lot. I’ve rediscovered people from thirty years ago.

Scott:

Yeah so, I don’t know. It’s been, as far as rowing goes, it’s been a good four years.
I’m glad it’s over, or it will be over in a couple months.

Gayle:

Just because of the time commitment or the physical commitment?

Scott:

Mostly just the time. I mean it’ll be good to just have a three hour chunk of time
back in my day. I’ll be twiddling my thumbs for those three hours, but that’s ok.

Gayle:

You’ll fill them up.

Scott:

Yeah, I’m sure.

Gayle:

If anything else you can sleep.

Scott:

Yeah.

End

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                    <text>William James College Interviews
GV016-16
Interviewer: Barbara Roos
Interviewee: Scott Troost
Date: 1984

[Troost]

My year was the first year that we still had draft numbers, but it was the first year
that it was clear that no one was going to be drafted. The year before me…

[Unknown]

After the lottery?

[Troost]

Yeah. Well, we had a lottery. My year had a lottery as a class of seventy-two in
high school. We had the lottery but when we had a lottery everyone knew that it
was not going to make a difference. By that time Nixon declared the war was
going to be pretty much phased out. The class before me there had been people
that were drafted. So, when I was in high school, I assumed that I was going to
have to face that issue. My brother who was two years older than me had to go
through it. Ended up getting a deferral from a friend who was a psychiatrist who
just gave him a psychological deferral. And so that really shaped my mind as far
as…

[Unknown]

This goes on a theory that I have and that is that in the later sixties and early
seventies there was a greater need for alternative colleges because of all the
returning vets and [inaudible], you know, that weren't accepted at traditional
colleges at that time.

[Troost]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Do you want to say anything on that?

[Troost]

I don’t know what… I'm real surprised about the whole anti-nuclear movement,
about people I meet that are younger who seem to have a lot of social concerns.
And yet they don't have anything like a Vietnam to galvanize them. So, I don't
know. Maybe there is still a population out there of kids that grow up that for
whatever reason don't accept the standards and need some place where they
can go and not feel like they're the odd ball. And because it seems like there is
still a significant group out there that have that feeling.

[Unknown]

Definitely a minority.

[Troost]

Definitely a minority. Though when you look at the… after the end of the Vietnam
War, a lot of people that were protesting ended up going back to the fold. The

�fact that the student population became Republican quite quickly, gave some
indication that for a lot of those people, it didn't stick. Whatever it was they were
feeling in the sixties, once Vietnam was over with, they went back to being pretty
much typical students.
[Unknown]

Yeah, the cause was [inaudible].

[Troost]

I remember I couldn't… I remember being so surprised to meet someone my age
who was racist. Because I thought to myself, "Well, that was something we
figured out." We figured out in the sixties that racism was bad. And so, anyone
my age should know that. I mean they went through all that, they should know
that they can't tell a racist joke and that's bad to do. And yet here they are doing
it. Where were they during that time? How come that didn't have the same effect
that it had on me.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Well and I'm twenty-six, and I'm probably the last generation, or near the
last generation that knew what was happening…

[Troost]

Oh yeah, you’re real close to being at the end of that.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And I think I’m one of the few “long hairs” that’s still left of that generation.

[Troost]

Well, now if you have long hair it's more indicative that you're conservative and
kind of a redneck. I mean, I'm scared of “long hairs” now. Like, ooh, watch out for
that guy, I'm sure he's violent.

[Unknown]

Okay, well let’s roll video.

[Troost]

Okay. Now you're going to be… were just going to be conversing?

[Unknown]

Yeah, it's the same thing. Just roll video. Is video rolling? Alright. I’m going to wait
a few seconds to get to the video. [Inaudible]

[Troost]

Okay.

[Unknown]

So, you studied Arts and Media also?

[Troost]

Well, I studied Arts and Media, I took some dance classes, I took one design
class. I just, I really literally sat down. All the milestone things they were just
phasing in when I was graduating and so I didn't have to do any of that while I
was at [William James]. I sat down in the last week and just juggled around all
the classes and thought, "Hey, I can get a double major here.” And so that's what
I did.

�[Unknown]

That's funny. You know, I got away with that, too. See, I never graduated.

[Troost]

So, you didn't have to…

[Unknown]

Well, I kept on not doing my milestone and they would either not ask me about it
or they would change the rules while I was still under it. "Well, you should have
done that four terms ago." Well, I didn't do it. "Well, don’t worry about that.”

[Troost]

Well, the greatest thing about Grand Valley was that because it was cluster
colleges, whenever there was a screw up, they always assumed they had
screwed up. Whenever I'd go into the records office and they would say, "Well,
we don't have that." Or when I was trying to get something, I'd say: "Well, it
should be there." They would say, "Well, we probably lost it." The assumed they
lost it. I was so shocked when I went to the University of Iowa where it's a
monolithic structure and so I went in and said, "Well, I already paid that." And
they said, "No, you didn’t." I said, "Well, can I get in anyway?" They said, "No,
you’ve got to pay right now." Where at Grand Valley it was, "Oh yeah, go ahead,
go ahead, you're in.”

[Unknown]

Okay, from the top. What drew you into William James College and West
Michigan and how did you get to there?

[Troost]

Well, I grew up in Oklahoma and went through high school and did the whole
thing there. I was a child during the sixties and the Vietnam thing. I had a draft
number, though I wasn't drafted. By that time the war was coming to a close. And
so, when I was out of high school, I was hot for experimental education. Also, the
schools I applied to had turned me down because I had been rebellious my
senior year and dropped all my grades. So, I wandered around for a while. I was
out in California in a small junior college out there. I went overseas on a program
called Experiment in International Living in Denmark. And while I was there, I met
a woman, Sally Norquist, who said: "Well, I'm going to a small experimental
college in West Michigan called 'Thomas Jefferson College.'" This was the first
time I heard about it, even though I had looked at literature about experimental
colleges. Never- the name of James never came up. But at that point, Thomas
Jefferson had a national reputation among a small group of people. It also was
attractive that it was a public institution and was quite cheap compared to a lot of
the other experimental colleges I investigated. And I said: "Well, that sounds
great." So, I followed her to Grand Rapids and set up household with her and
some other people and started taking classes at Thomas Jefferson. To find out
then that there was a cluster college there, several cluster colleges, one of which
was William James College. The first time I heard about William James was one
of my housemates, Paulette Rosen, came home and said that she just started
taking this class with this professor named Stephen Rowe, Ethical Problems and
Perspectives. And she thought it was the best class she had ever taken, that he

�was a wonderful professor. She also was in love with one of the other students in
the class, which made her even rave more about the class. And that whetted my
appetite to see what he was like. At that time, the classes I was taking at Thomas
Jefferson weren't that exciting to me. About that time the only thing I did at that
point was to sponsor a class myself in how to throw the Frisbee. Which fit in the
curriculum about as well as anything else fit in. I also did learn how to deliver a
baby in my Pregnancy and Birth class at Thomas Jefferson and if anyone ever
needs that help from me, I can perform that. So, there were a few things I
learned about how [?] shares in the work of some value but I started taking
classes with Stephen and found him just to be a wonderful professor, and loved
his ideas, and his conversation, and the way he conducted his class. I eventually
got hooked in with Barry Castro and had the same experience with him and I
found a little niche there. The thing that I remember when I first got to Grand
Valley was that someone said: "Well, you go to Thomas Jefferson College to get
your shit together and once you've got your shit together then you go to William
James." And that seemed to fit my experience also.
[Unknown]

So, how was William James different than Thomas Jefferson, in the people and
the classes and also from other traditional schools?

[Troost]

Well, the thing that- the main thing, the difference between Thomas Jefferson
and William James that I found was that the people at Thomas Jefferson seem to
be… the main mode there seem to be emotional. People were passionate about
this, about that, and it worked quite well for things like dance, and theater, and
other arts activities. But there was very little thought, there wasn't a lot of respect
for conversation, there was a lack of focus at Thomas Jefferson, or there was an
attempt to find focus that it never seemed they were able to find. And what I
found at William James was a celebration of ideas and thinking, at least in the
classes that I took the professors I took classes with. And the students seem to
be serious about studying, about thinking, about issues, about broader themes,
about being synoptic, to use the word that we all have to use at least once if were
William James alumnus. And the other thing I found that was… that the
difference between William James and more traditional schools I went to was
that I had always felt like an oddball or a rabble at the more traditional colleges.
And I didn't like that role. I would play it and I started… I wasn't taking myself as
seriously. And William James College was the first place that I could take myself
seriously and that other people would, too. And that I wasn't the oddball in the
class or the rebel in the class. I usually was probably one of the more
conservative people in the class. I could say things on my mind and not have
them laughed at or have to be defensive about them. And I love to talk. I love to
be in a classroom, and talk, and engage with people and it was a perfect place
for that. I found a little niche there. And I was not able to find that at other
colleges. And it seemed like William James was set up to allow people to find
niches. People that didn't fit in other places, they could come there and find a

�niche. And that's how I found it different.
[Unknown]

Okay. What of the education? Was it a good general education? A good liberal
education? How would you rate with other traditional colleges?

[Troost]

Well, I was a self-motivator. Once I find something that I enjoy, I usually work
quite hard at it. And so, I studied very hard at William James. I remember a class
I took during the College of Arts and Sciences, this is after a couple of years at
William James, and it was an Environmental Studies class, and it was one credit
class, and the professor was not going to be there one day, and it was a
discussion class. And he, by that point I had been the one that had been talking
most the time, and so he suggested that I'd be the moderator for the next class,
when he was going to be gone. And I showed up that day and no one else was
there. Once when the professor wasn't there that means there wasn't a class, in
their minds, even though they knew it was scheduled. And yet for me it was a lost
opportunity to talk more about the environment and what the issue was in the
class. And I found that kind of thinking and serious study was as rigorous as any
other place that I went. And was certainly for helping me to think creatively, it was
as good as education as I could find. Because other people that I met that would
come through traditional schools didn't do that. All they wanted to know was what
was expected of them and then that's what they would do. Now I didn't do that
very well, and I found that would be a problem later on as that once I got back
and I went to law school after Grand Valley, and it was back in traditional
structure that didn't work very well for me. The kind of stuff that I had learned at
William James.

[Unknown]

How is that education regarded at any other traditional?

[Troost]

Well, most people don't ask you or don't care too much where you've gone to
school. I went to University of Iowa Law School and they didn't know Grand
Valley from Adam. Or certainly never heard of William James College. So, it was
only after I told him, which I told him quite frequently that I had gone to the
experimental college, and that I had gone to William James College, that it was a
special place, and I wore my T-shirt, and I was having articles written by Stephen
and other professors that I was willing to hand out at the least provocation. So, I
made sure that people knew that I'd been to a different place, and that it was
unique, and that it had given me a whole different view of the world that they
should also have. I proselytize quite a bit when I first left William James. But I
found that most people didn't have a very clear conception of what that kind of
education would be like and it was business as usual for them. They were in law
school and there were more pressing matters to be worried about.

[Unknown]

I'd like you to say a little bit about the role of the educational community out there
in the support [inaudible]. A statement on that.

�[Troost]

In terms of the educational community of William…

[Unknown]

Of students, and how that was unique.

[Troost]

Well, I don't… in Grand Rapids it's rare that I don't meet someone that hasn't
been to William James. It seems like every time I meet someone in some field
either they were at Wayne James, or the person they're married to went to
William James. And there's an immediate sense of community there. Even
though we might… even though I usually don't know them. And I find that ironic
that I went to a school as small as William James and I know very few people
from Wayne James. I mentioned when we were talking before the tape started
that when I graduated in seventy-seven, I got to graduation and there was the
little room full of William James graduates and I didn't know a single student. I
had to introduce myself to everybody, and everybody had to introduce
themselves… they didn't know me. And here was a school that was, I think, sixhundred people and I had been there for two or three years, and I didn't know a
single person I graduated with. And yet there was that sense of then, and when I
meet people now, that there is a community of people and a support for, again,
for being a little bit different. And accepting that. And certainly, I think there are
certain values implied, usually more liberal. Though I'm sure that's not always the
case, but you can… you don't have to apologize about not voting for Reagan.
Things like that.

[Unknown]

Can we talk a little bit about… I'm taking off my notes right now.

[Troost]

Sure.

[Unknown]

Can you talk a little bit about the language.

[Troost]

Yeah, well that was one thing when I… a frustration I found when I left the
William James community was that we had developed a very specialized
language there, especially in the Social Relations group. I don't know… I don't
know about the other groups, whether they had their own language.

[Unknown]

I'm sure they did.

[Troost]

I'm sure they sure did. It just didn't translate. I remember giving a group of very
good friends at law school – who also seemed to share most of the values that I
shared - an article by Stephen. They didn't understand. They didn't… I mean they
literally couldn't understand what it was about. And for me it was… it summed up
my complete experience at William James. I could read that, or I can read that
article and it said exactly what I felt about the world. And yet for them it was
mishmash. And so, I had to try to figure out ways see to translate what I learned

�of William James, or just give it up entirely. I finally stopped talking about it
because I couldn't find ways to bridge that language gap. And it was also… the
other thing about the language that I learned William James was it was mostly a
language of ideas and thinking to the exclusion of emotions and that sort of thing.
Now I know that there were some other classes, I know Dick Gottlieb in Social
Work paid a lot of attention to that, but I'd never had any classes with Dick. And
so, for me, I had a whole language of ideas and I didn't have much language of
emotions. And that got me in trouble because I think I started assuming that
things that were happening to me had more to do with my thinking than with what
was going on emotionally with me. And as I later found out, that wasn't always
the case. The decision to going to law had a lot of emotional reasons. My father
wanted me to do it, my parents were getting divorced at the time, and I needed
some stability. There were lots of emotional things that were happening to me
when I made the decision to go to law school that I never talked about. And I was
able to, with ideas and thoughts, rationalize why I should go law school, when
really that was not the reason I was going. I was going because my father
wanted me to go and because I needed some stability in my life. Now I'm going
into theater, which seems to get much closer to my heart and what I should be
doing. But it took me a long time to realize like that. And I had to… I didn't learn
that at William James. I'm of the opinion now, thinking back to that age, that I
probably needed a lot more than just William James College at that point in my
life. I needed a therapist; I needed a vocational counselor. And I was under the
mistaken impression that I could get all of that at William James. And I think that
was probably a problem William James had is it held itself out to be more than it
should be, or could be. What I needed a teacher to say to me was: “That's
something you need to deal with a counselor, and I can't do it here for you." But
we had this idea that William James is a community. We could talk and deal with
all sorts of intimate issues. And maybe we could… maybe we were a bit more
ambitious than we should've been with that.
[Unknown]

Yeah, I've heard it criticized because of the fact that you develop, you know, a
surrogate family, more or less while you're in college. And the four years, and
you're out and back into your reality, as you know, is completely shaken up. Your
friends are gone, you know, everybody you can relate to. And the language
barrier. That kind of closure I think, do you think, perhaps that was one of the
things that didn't work for the college?

[Troost]

Well, the thing is… the thing that worked for me was the challenge to remain
alive and remain thinking. And to initiate thought for myself. And that's something
that has stayed with me as a strength for me. It sometimes trapped me. Like I
said, there were certain emotional things that I didn't have a handle on, and I trap
myself by my idea and my thinking. But at least I kept thinking and kept
questioning things. And that's something I still hang onto and it's something I
think I got from William James or least I got strengthened by William James. To

�feel like that was okay to think for myself and not accept what was going on, what
the status quo was. I was going to say something else, but I forget now.
[Unknown]

Why is that…

[Troost]

Oh! The community of… the community people. There was a whole group of us
that ended up moving out to Lake Michigan in Grand Haven for school year and it
was a wonderful and horrible experience. It was this whole idealism that we could
establish this community for ourselves and be self-sufficient. We even talked, at
a point, where maybe we didn't have to go into Grand Valley, we could just do
our education there among ourselves. And by the end of the year, we had come
apart at the seams. It had gotten quite incestuous. People went from one couple
group to another. I mean people… so and so and so and so split up, and then
these two people started sleeping together. And people started checking out,
emotionally. And it was a… it ended up being a very painful experience. Though
when we started it, we were full of idealism and we had some wonderful times
together. And it's an experience that still feels strong to me, that it is possible,
you know, in moments to find that kind of community among people. And so, I
still take that with me. I think in the end, I am still a committed idealist, even
though I have longer periods of cynicism now I have to weather. I think deep
down, my hunch is for most William James students, they didn't lose that. They
got a little more tempered by the society, maybe they’re a little more reluctant to
talk about it now, and they're certainly a little more cautious about jumping into
things. But deep down there's still that idealism that they have.

[Unknown]

Looking for things that perhaps didn't work and, you know, perhaps tie that in
with the demise of the college. You talked a little bit about early how you felt too
much was paid to, perhaps, the pragmatic rational attitudes than not to the
emotional attitude. And you also talked about how there's a [inaudible] that's
going to be made after the closing because William James…

[Troost]

Well, I remember when they announced the closing of Thomas Jefferson College
it certainly seemed that the trend was going away from a cluster college concept.
And that Lubbers, who initially seemed to embrace the idea, had lost his
enthusiasm for it and was starting to become convinced that there was a need to
make a more university type setting. And if that's the case, then William James
would've had to radically change to continue to exist within that university
structure. So that if a stand was to be made, it should've been made back when
they closed the first cluster college. Even though at that time I think Thomas
Jefferson College just had tremendous problems and had no educational
philosophy that was working and had not worked. But it also seemed that the die
was cast. And I'm sure everyone has their opinion about why they closed William
James College and mine is as valid or no more valid than anyone else's. But I
don't feel like we have much to do with that, that we had much power over that

�decision. I think once the decision was made at the higher levels that it was a
political decision that we couldn't have changed. We might've been able to make
more of a fuss about it or embarrassed Grand Valley more about it but my hunch
is that the trend towards a cluster college at Grand Valley had run its course and
was not going to be supporting any longer.
[Unknown]

We talked about the constitution of the William James student base. Too much
idealism, not enough idealism, too much rationalism, too much -isms

[Troost]

Too many -isms.

[Unknown]

Yeah. You know, I want to get a good picture of that because I think that was one
of the points that led to the demise that people were always reacting [inaudible]
perhaps emotional.

[Troost]

Well, for me, what worked for William James – and I suspect worked for most
William James students – is the relationship with the professors and the
classroom work they did. It seemed like people that were there found a
comfortable niche of two or three professors that they took most of their classes
from and of a subject matter that they studied. Beyond that, I'm not sure if the
institution worked for the student in any other way. I know they have the council
meetings, but I never figured out what they were talking about at council
meetings. I didn't go to very many. I was fairly antisocial in terms of the larger
structure at William James. I suspect that was the case for most William James
students. So that the power structure or what happened beyond the classroom
level was really left up, principally, to the administrators and the faculty. I don't
know enough about the politics of what happened among the faculty when things
were coming apart, to know what happened or didn't happen. Whether the faculty
could have taken certain stands or could have pressured certain people, I don't
know. It's beyond me. I think for the students, though, I never had a sense that
we had much to say about how William James worked, and certainly not about
how William James worked in the Grand Valley community… Grand Valley State
Colleges as a whole. The student I found there, like me, loved to talk. They were,
in some ways, pretty conservative folks. Thomas Jefferson College were just
wild. I mean, they were fun; they were wonderful. It was exactly the kind of
people you should be around for part of your little liberal education because they
really were willing to expand and try things that have never been tried. William
James students, on the other hand, though, we're much more willing to talk and
to think. And yet there was as basic conservatism, even though most of the
values we had and talked about were quite liberal. I think they came from a much
more conservative place in us. And certainly, for me I felt that way. I wasn't
radical or liberal because I had this expansive view of the world, it was because
certain things didn't make sense. I thought about the way our structure was… the
way our society was structured, and it didn't work right. And I thought: "Well,

�that's not right." I mean they came from thinking about these things. And that's a
fairly conservative type of view of the world, where you just see contradiction. It's
interesting, I found that in Denmark, which is usually considered a very liberal
country and very, you know, socialistic country, that the people there, basically,
were very, very conservative people. They just see things that don't make sense
and so they change that. And I had a sense in William James that was more the
way people thought. I admit that sometimes people seemed a little dull, but I
certainly didn't… I certainly liked… that was the place that I found for myself and I
liked, even though I kept playing Frisbee, and I had my hair long, and did all
those things. And I had… it was like a duality for me. I regretted that TJC didn't
work, but certainly found a home for myself at William James.
[Unknown]

Okay, got some wrap up questions here. We got most of them. Is there anything
else you want to throw out?

[Troost]

I don't think so.

[Unknown]

Okay. How would you describe William James to another person?

[Troost]

Oh, God. William James College to another person.

[Unknown]

Somebody that doesn't know about William James, and you're talking about it.

[Troost]

I would tell them it was a small college among a cluster of colleges near Grand
Rapids, Michigan, that had a very dedicated faculty. And that were dedicated to
thinking and liberal education, and that found a student body who are committed,
or willing to commit themselves to the same thing. And that attracted students,
and I suspect faculty, who have not fit in other places very well. And yet were not
radical in fundamental senses, but basically misunderstood or just needed a
place where they felt more comfortable and were among peers that they could
share things with. And that for a period of time there was created a community of
people who could talk and think in the way that they'd always felt. And it was a
worthwhile experiment. And it was probably an educational tool but that's still
needed. I don't think it was a product of the sixties, I think there was a viable
philosophy that was going on there that still can appeal to a certain segment of
kids graduating from high school. Kids that don't quite feel accepted, or have
different ideas, or want to seriously talk about the world and questions
fundamental things in the world. You know, I think William James was the perfect
place for that. The whole emphasis at William James about career education was
not so much the thing for me. I did an internship, I did all that sort of thing, that
was not as important to me as the whole celebration of ideas that I found at
William James.

[Unknown]

Okay, good. Okay, so [inaudible] question.

�[Troost]

Okay.

[Unknown]

What is the essence, you know, the bottom-line essence, using, you know, a
couple words, bottom line, the essence of William James College? You know,
take a minute to think.

[Troost]

Bottom line essence of William James College?

[Unknown]

You know, what was it? That's one of the big questions everybody asks. What
was William James, really?

[Troost]

Blue. I don't know I have to make a joke because it's an important question and I
can't think of anything to say about it. It, for me… I'm going to say…I'm going to
make… I'm going to do an intellectual answer. I wish I could come up with
emotional response to that and I can't. And it's unfortunate because I think I
could come up with a better answer if it was emotional. The intellectual thing I
was going to say was that it was the conversation was the essence. That I found
people to converse with for perhaps the first time in my education. And maybe
last time in my education. And that was liberating to me. That had a liberating
effect on me. The idea that I could converse with faculty and with other students
and have a true conversation in the broadest sense of the word was, for me, the
essence of William James College.

[Unknown]

Great. She's been telling everyone the response to the question [inaudible].

[Troost]

Yeah, I wish you… like I said, I wish I could come up with something that was
more from the heart, an image or something. I can't come up with an image.

[Unknown]

Well, maybe that wasn't the essence.

[Troost]

Whatever it is, it's the image, I mean when I think of William James I think of a
classroom. I think of either Stephen or Barry talking. A lot. Because they both
love to talk. And yet in a way that included the students. And talking about
fundamental things. And not being afraid to do that. Not being afraid to spend
time talking about very fundamental questions, and speculating about the world,
and being able to entertain any question and talk about it in a serious manner.
That's the image I have of William James College. I don't… the rest of it seems to
be blurry. That's why it's always embarrassing to me when people ask me about
William James because I like… I can't tell them about council meetings, I can't
tell them about what it was… what was happening in other niches in the in the
college. There's not many professors that I know. There's not many other
students that I know. I just know I know those classrooms and what happened in
those. And that there was something magical, for me, in those moments, in those

�classes. And Stephen and Barry and sometimes other professors, seemed to be
able to create a magic for me that just was explosive. I was in seventh heaven
when I discovered them. I thought: "This is education. I finally found education."
And I knew that it was there. I knew, in high school, and in the first colleges I
went to, I knew that that was not something that was happening, that could
happen. And when I found it, I went: "Aha! I was right all along." I suspected that
you could do this, this was possible to have a conversation like this. So that
was…
[Unknown]

Okay. Did you have class with [inaudible]?

[Troost]

No. Same way? Same kind of feeling?

[Unknown]

Yeah just real involved. He was the only person I saw…

[Troost]

He taught music, didn't he?

[Unknown]

Yeah. He's the only person I ever saw talk to everybody personally, and to the
whole class at the same time. Every time he talked, you thought he was talking to
you. Not at the blackboard, not at the class as a whole. It was just real good. The
instructors, I think that's the essence also.

[Troost]

Yeah. And maybe that's the best thing a college can offer people is a good core
of the professors that you can find one or more that you can use the mentor. And
maybe that's all William James really needed to have done. Maybe the other stuff
they tried to do was more ambitious than it needed to. I was not unhappy with my
education at all at William James, even though I kept suspecting I should be. I
kept thinking, you know, I'm not at council meetings, I should be there. I am not
really a William James student unless I'm doing all this synoptic stuff. But in fact I
was happy with the classes I was taking. And someone said: "That's all you need
to do." I was like: "This is great, I don't want to do anything else. I just want to
study with these people."

[Unknown]

Great. Anything else?

[Troost]

I can't think of anything.

[Unknown]

Okay. Good.

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                <text>Troost, Scott</text>
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                <text>1984</text>
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                <text>Interview with Scott Troost by Barbara Roos, documenting the history of Grand Valley State's William James College. William James College was the third baccalaureate degree granting college for Grand Valley. It was originally designed to be an interdisciplinary, non-departmentalized college consisting of concentration programs, rather than majors. The college opened in 1971 and was discontinued in 1983 during a reorganization of Grand Valley State. Scott Troost was a Social Relations student of William James College who graduated in 1977. In this interview he discusses what drew him to William James College and West Michigan, how he first learned of Grand Valley while overseas in Denmark, and how he switched from Thomas Jefferson College to William James due to influential professors such as Stephen Rowe and Barry Castro. This interview is part 1 of 1 for Scott Troost.</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/69"&gt;William James College faculty and student interviews (GV016-16)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
World War II
Francis Scott
Length of interview (02:02:07)
Pre-Enlistment (00:17)
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



Working at AC Sparkplug in Flint, Michigan. (00:18)
Lived with family in Mt. Morris. (00:22)
Was a Job Setter, setting up machines to cut threads for aircraft sparkplugs. (00:25)
Went to Mt. Morris High School (00:36)
Lettered in baseball, track and football. (00:40)
Was in class plays and operas. (00:50)
Remembers Pearl Harbor
o
Was at his Grandma‟s house in Genesee eating dinner with his family (01:09)

Enlistment (01:14)









Drafted in October of 1942 (01:19)
Thinks he was sworn in on October 16th (01:24)
Reported on October 30 to Fort Custer, Michigan (01:28)
Took away his clothes at Fort Custer, gave him a tetanus shot and a large bag of clothes to
carry (01:50)
Took a train out west through the northern part of the country, down through the Columbia
River Valley (02:04)
Got off the train at Corvallis, Oregon, and joined a group called 381st Infantry Regiment
(02:16)
Took a test for aptitude as a radio operator, passed it and learned to use a radio using
Morse Code (02:31)
Passed with a high enough score to be sent to Washington State College in June of 1943 to
March of 1944 (02:45)

Training (02:52)
 Did physical education late in the afternoon
o
Lieutenant‟s name was Craig
o
Captain‟s name was Francis Mandel, a third string quarterback at Notre Dame
(03:15)
o
Played scrub football
 It rained a lot in the winter, didn‟t freeze very much
 When they fell out for formation, they had to wear a rifle belt with a raincoat folded over
(03:41)
 Began learning the alphabet at about three to four words per minute (03:48)

� When the alphabet was mastered, the speed was moved up and he learned to copy code
with a pencil—the infantry didn‟t carry a typewriter in combat (03:58)
o
At 14 words per minute, he was classified as a radio operator, also fired a rifle.
o
Scored „sharp-shooter‟, missed „expert‟ by one point (04:27)
 Talks about firing 32 shots inside of a minute with Lieutenant Craig for fun—only missed
a couple shots (04:51)
 At that point he did not know he would be part of the invasion of Europe (05:02)
o
381st Infantry was still fighting in the South Pacific
o
Remembers getting letters from home about his friends being shot and killed
(05:23)
o
Did not know where he was going to go, but the 381st Infantry, part of the 86th
division, went to the South Pacific and Philippines (05:41)
 Turned 21, had to go to the captain to get a permission slip to go to a liquor store to buy a
bottle of „booze‟ (05:57)
o
Talks about the celebration, dancing with the girls in Eugene, Oregon
o
Learned to eat salads, “because I was broke” (07:14)
 Remembers not having a lot of money
o
Remembers a man who used to play banjo to get money for beer and cigarettes
(07:43)
 Remembers a friend named Elmer Reagan (08:30)
o
Remembers a “quizzical look on his face, like he wasn‟t the brightest bulb on
the Christmas Tree” (08:35)
o
Remembers Elmer getting poison oak (11:23)
o
Talks about married men in the division. (12:47)
 Began hiking, first six, then twelve miles (13:08)
o
At twenty-six miles, Elmer was dropping behind
o
Discovered Elmer had a heart problem and Elmer was discharged (13:26)
o
Lost contact with Elmer
Fort Lewis, Washington (15:10)
 Remembers “Rosie the Riveter”
o
A girl he took out to the movies who was named Rosie, she was a riveter at a
shipyard (15:36)
 Was called down to the army personnel office division headquarters, he was asked if he
wanted to go to college
o
He was told the army was selecting people to learn engineering
o
He was eligible to go because he passed his “Army General Certification Test”
high enough (16:27)
o
He accepted, he was told it was Idaho University—he was there for a week
before being shipped to Washington State College (17:03)
o
Spent forty hours a week in class
 Was determined to stay out of the infantry—Lieutenant Craig wanted him to be in
Intelligence and Reconnaissance, there was a two-hundred percent casualty rate in the
first month (18:06)
 Remembers a very strict Captain (19:11)

� Describes his dormitory
o
Eight men, with four double bunks and two desks (19:51)
o
Was a Cadet Lieutenant, marched his section of twenty men to and from classes
 Describes his comrades (21:16)
 In September of 1943, he returned home (22:05)
o
Describes the rationing of food and gas, cars weren‟t being made
o
Manufacturing plants made machine guns and tank parts instead
o
Liked to go back to AC Sparkplugs and flirt with the girls (23:18)
 Remembers other soldiers from his high school (25:19)
o
“They did a good job turning civilians into soldiers”
o
Everyone knew someone in the war effort
o
Tells a story about “Dirty George” (28:40)
o
Tells a story about the romance of another friend (31:20)
**break in the video**
Washington State College (34:04)
 “Future Officers”
o
Would end up doing civil engineering
 In winter of 1944, there was a buildup in England about D-day (34:52)
o
The end of March, the program he was in would be terminated
o
A few were persuaded to go to medical school
 “Field Expedience” is how you survive (36:05)
 Tells about a roadblock he once helped set up (37:45)
o
Were testing Artillery
Camp Cook (39:25)





Joined the Radio Division of Camp Cook, California
Tells a story about his trip to Los Angeles (41:13)
Was always very foggy
Tells a story about driving friends home in very dense fog while stationed at Camp Cook
(43:51)
 Went on Furlough in June (44:40)
o
Fourteen days
o
“The smell of the foliage and the hay, it‟s different than California, you know
you‟re home” (45:17)
o
Shortly after D-day
o
Visited his friends, no dates, was writing a girl already (46:57)
o
Did not have the self-confidence to court seriously
o
Tells about his sisters and their love interests (48:17)
 Returns back and receives a letter telling him of his sisters‟ double wedding (49:37)
 Takes a trip through San Francisco, Denver and the Rio Grande
o
Would do exercises when the train was stopped or delayed (50:28)

� Went to New Jersey
o
There were German prisoners of war (50:51)
o
Regiment was marched out at night for a lesson on how sound will travel at
night—learned to be cautious at night (52:27)
o
Left Brooklyn at night on the HMS Cimmeria (53:43)
HMS Cimmeria (53:43)






Off the coast of Cape Cod there were ships as far as the eye could see (53:47)
September 30, 1944 1one of the largest convoys to leave
Didn‟t like smoked fish, so bought cookies and Ginger Ale (54:24)
There were Baby Flattops, Destroyer Escorts, Destroyers (54:55)
Had a sense of how the war was going in Europe
o
“We knew by then that they had busted through in St. Lo and they were in the
eastern part of France.” (55:49)
 Knew they had liberated Paris, knew about the casualties of D-Day (56:03)
 Had to decide on career, relationships, so when the army took over, they felt free,
postponing their decisions (56:54)
 Arrived in England October 12th
England (58:02)
 Left December 9th or 20th
 Remembers that Machine Guns and Sub Machine Guns were packed in a heavy grease, had
to wash them off now that they would not be corroded by the salt in the air (59:12)
 Remembers a Lieutenant whose jeep was so loaded with armor plate, “it was a wonder it
could even move” (1:00:28)
 The army called jeeps “peeps”
 Remembers going to see Stonehenge, Salisbury, went to see Bath, talked to the girls in
Bristol at the cigarette factories, danced the hokey-pokey with the English girls (1:01:01)
**tape switches**
Active Duty (1:01:24)
 Well aware of the Germans being in disguise in American uniforms, they had found a weak
point in the Allied lines in the Ardennes Forest (1:01:28)
 Loaded up and drove to Weymouth, England (1:01:31)
 Boarded an LST 510, sailed across the channel to Cherbourg Bay
o
Was down on the tank deck, when General Quarters Alarm sounded (1:02:27)
o
Before the alarm they heard a “horrible screeching, wrenching sound of metal
on metal” (1:02:36)
o
Was high tide, and there was a sunken super-structure there which tore out
some armor from the bottom of the boat (1:03:07)
o
The damage was near the engine room, compartments in the bottom of the ship

�stopped the spread of water, but the lights went out and they were on auxiliary
batteries (1:03:25)
o
They were ordered to the top deck, and told to go over the side of the ship,
remembers that no one broke their leg on the long drop (1:04:59)
 The Germans were concentrating on the Bulge, back in England they had worried about
Buzz Bombs
 There was another LST, which they boarded for the night. In the morning the 510 was next
to them (1:06:05)
 Drove off to a Gasoline dump, where they were told to stay until told otherwise (1:06:36)
o
Remembers being stationed near the farm house nearby
o
A large car comes up, with a woman and man in it who request to talk to the
commander, remembers being told to help the man load gasoline into his car
(1:07:32)
o
The man tells them he was in the Maquis (1:08:07)
 Went to Paris, stayed the night in a small French city
o
Remembers being freezing (1:08:26)
o
Another soldier, Sparta, rigged a jeep for warmth (1:09:56)
 Tells a story about two French men who share a drink with the soldiers (1:11:18)
 Was in Paris the 22nd or 23rd of December, was going to help out the Americans in the
Battle of the Bulge (1:12:39)
 Celebrated Christmas in France
 While staying in Belgian barracks, they persuaded other soldiers to give them extra
blankets (1:14:32)
 Went into a radio park, were monitoring the 4th Armored Division, had mortar shells
dropped on them (1:15:29)
 Remembers getting reports that the Germans were getting pushed back (1:15:47)
 Was up in a pine tree for the night, they dug a trench and put rocks in the bottom, covered
the rocks with dead branches and made a fire (1:16:38)
 Was about 4-5 miles from the front at that point
 Describes in great detail formation and their orders (1:18:01)
o
Were supposed to send and receive messages
 Was in a 5 man crew, names the members of the group (1:19:53)
o
Describes his shift, from 12 am to 3 am
o
Never ran out of battery power or gas (1:21:04)
o
Had to be there in case a general needed something done
 Describes the chain of communication with wires and radios (1:22:17)
 Busiest day: (1:22:04)
o
In a valley, a butte nearby, enemy on the high side
o
Pulled tanks up and fired from where they couldn‟t be seen
o
Problems with communication, signal strength minimal (1:23:09)
o
Put up extra antennas, kept working on it for 3-4 hours
 Describes wiring communications through a house (1:24:58)
 Tells a story about his friend, Sparta
o
Sparta broke out a window of a house they found, put a lard can in the broken
window (1:25:50)

�o
Rigged the stove, built a fire to make themselves more comfortable
 January or February of 1945 (1:27:26)
Route to the Battle of the Bulge (1:28:07)
 Reads statistics about the Battle of the Bulge
o
Germans had 550 thousand troops, lost 120 thousand (1:28:30)
o
50 thousand English, 50 thousand US troops; 19 thousand killed (1:29:19)
o
Movement of troops to Europe largest migration of humans in history
 Went to a small town in Belgium for about 10 days
 Didn‟t have hot water until 3-4 weeks in combat (1:30:57)
o
Didn‟t do anything on the radio for a week
 Went to another small town
o
One soldier fixed up an old accordion (1:32:47)
 Scott stands and begins pointing to a map (1:33:19)
o
In 6 days, went over 50 miles
o
Describes a Pontoon Bridge (1:34:31)
o
Describes going to a warehouse and getting wine
 Normal Rations (1:36:00)
o
GI food
o
Breakfast: Cooked eggs, toast, coffee, sometimes powdered eggs, or French
toast
o
Supper: various meals
o
Describes going through a usual supper routine (1:36:42)
 Scott moves back to the map (1:37:17)
o
Captured about 10 thousand troops near where Scott points at
o
Points at Worms, captured 17 thousand there
o
Scott traces route further
o
Discovered “slave laborers” for the first time, but not surprised (1:39:00)
 Worms:
o
One night a German convoy went alongside their position, Americans opened
fire and killed them all. Took some supplies and traded them (1:40:33)
o
The supplies were traded to a baker; they received pies back, and the baker
gave the bread made with the supplies to the starving German people
Battle of the Bulge (1:41:09)
 Would wake up early and start heading towards the area (1:42:01)
 Sometimes would stop and wait for 2-3 days before intelligence decided where to go next,
or for gasoline
 Was shot at, got up in the turret of the halftrack, shot into the woods and told his comrades
to go tell the commander what had taken place (1:43:33)
 Later learned that a Red Cross worker had been shot and injured
 Scott‟s gun jammed, picked up the driver‟s 45 and kept firing (1:44:30)
 Started seeing dead bodies along the road, in civilian clothes, some were Jewish

� Several days later, found emaciated people walking back down the road
o
So thin that when the wind blew “you could see the triangle of their femurs”
(1:45:28)
 Near an open field, there was counter intelligence and 13 German prisoners.
o
Saw a pile of bodies about 30 ft long and 3 to 4 ft high (1:45:19)
o
3 “Political Prisoners” grabbed machine guns, marched by 6 to 9 Nazi soldiers
to a gully and shot them(1:46:56)
o
“Death March” started out with around 50 thousand prisoners, many were
killed
 He was disgusted and angry (1:48:17)
 Events took place in April, 1945
 Tells another story about Sparta, and how he found ways to get a hot meal
o
Doesn‟t know what happened to him after the war (1:50:28)
After the War (1:51:12)
 Captured Linz, Austria: found two concentration camps (1:51:18)
o
German civilians were made to pick up the bodies in the concentration camp
and bury them (1:52:06)
 Was the furthest East of any unit
 Contacted Russians in May
 Scott‟s unit, 11th Armed Division, captured 79,299 prisoners
 Tells about his “unique experience” with prisoners (1:53:14)
o
War was almost over, April 23rd
o
Scott changes the map
o
Outside of a small town
o
It was late in the afternoon, and he had stomach cramps, went to use the
bathroom behind a bush. He spots 5 Hungarian soldiers coming over the ridge
o
They had 3 white flags, a Hungarian National Flag and a Regimental Flag
(1:54:52)
o
Directs the soldiers back to his unit, and tells his commanding officers he
believes they want to surrender
o
Decided to go back and get his shovel afterwards, his friends tell him he should
have gotten the Hungarian‟s pistols, they sold for 100 dollars apiece (1:57:34)
 Scott points out on the map, tells that the Hungarians surrendered 2000 men.
Final Thoughts (1:58:48)
 Believes there is not enough recognition of D-Day, Pearl Harbor, VE-day, Battle of the
Bulge and other important events in World War II (1:59:03)
 Believes these events should never be forgotten, and is proud of his division
 Tells about a website for the 11th Armored Division (1:59:47)
o
Submits articles to them and keeps in touch

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                  <text>The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Joseph Scott
Vietnam War
Interview Length: (00:58:46:00)
Training / National Guard (00:00:42:00)
 When Scott first joined the military, he joined the Michigan National Guard and he was
still a junior in high school (00:00:42:00)
o Scott’s father thought it would be a good idea for Scott to join the National Guard
as a way to get out of the draft (00:00:53:00)
 The week after Scott’s graduation from high school, he began the active-duty
requirement for his enlistment, which was supposed to last six months and include both
basic training and Advanced Infantry Training (AIT) (00:01:04:00)
o Once Scott began his active-duty portion, he took a train ride to Fort Jackson,
Mississippi (00:01:23:00)
o By the time Scott arrived at Fort Jackson, it was around four o’clock in the
morning and he received his first taste of being in the military when he and the
other recruits were ordered to get off the train and stand in a line (00:01:42:00)
o Once off the train, Scott and the other recruits were marched onto buses, which
then took them into Fort Jackson (00:01:55:00)
 The recruits were allowed a couple of hours rest before being woken to
receive their haircuts and uniforms (00:02:05:00)
 Soon after, the recruits were split up to the specific bases where they
would go through training; Scott ended up going to Fort Gordon, Georgia
for his basic training (00:02:22:00)
o Scott arrived at Fort Gordon in the middle of summer and during the summer of
1965, it was rather hot (00:02:32:00)
 Scott and the other recruits had to line up every morning before breakfast
for physical training, which consisted of calisthenics and a run, which was
originally only a mile long but soon increased in length, eventually
topping out at fourteen miles per day (00:02:43:00)
 After the physical training, the recruits had breakfast, returned to their
barracks, and went to the training sessions for the day, which ranged
anywhere from firing weapons to marching to learning the do’s and don’ts
of military life (00:03:12:00)
o The training at Fort Gordon lasted for eight weeks, after which Scott traveled to
Fort Ord, California (00:03:52:00)
 When he first went to Fort Ord, Scott flew into San Francisco following a
thirty-day leave and took a bus down to Fort Ord, which was situated on
the Monterey Peninsula (00:04:11:00)
 Fort Ord looked nothing like a traditional military facility; in Scott’s
opinion, it was the nicest military facility he ever served at (00:04:20:00)
 It was at Fort Ord that Scott and the other recruits learned about specific
military tactics, as well as continued physical training (00:04:34:00)

�



During their final physical proficiency test, Scott remembers that
he and the other recruits had to get past a number of obstacles,
including monkey bars and doing the low-crawl, all of which had
to be done in a certain amount of time (00:04:46:00)
o As well, the men also had to run a mile on a track that had
been built on the side of a hill (00:05:12:00)
o After he completed the AIT at Fort Ord, Scott was released from active-duty to
join the Michigan National Guard (00:05:36:00)
When Scott first joined his National Guard unit after training, he only had to go to the
monthly meetings (00:05:49:00)
o At the time, Scott’s National Guard was not a “ready reactive unit”, which meant
they were not in the queue for deployment to Vietnam and did not have the most
up-to-date and modern equipment (00:05:51:00)
 Nevertheless, Scott and the other men in the unit still had to “play
soldier”, which involved going to Camp Grayling to act as “aggressor
forces” and train against those National Guard units who had been
activated for deployment to Vietnam (00:06:03:00)
 Scott remembers that one time, he ended up being captured;
however, the soldiers who captured him and some of the other
soldiers in his unit were not paying too much attention to them, so
Scott hopped into the driver’s seat of the deuce-and-a-half truck
they were in and took off down the road (00:06:32:00)
 Another time, Scott and the other soldiers had regrouped and were
told to do an assault during the night (00:07:02:00)
o Scott and the soldiers were supposed to wait for the other
unit to come through the area but ended up falling asleep
and the other unit went right by the men (00:07:17:00)
o In the morning, the men heard gunshots coming towards
them, so they got up and one of the men in Scott’s squad
made an improvised Molotov cocktail, which he then threw
at the tank; as the tank burned, the men ran in the other
direction, straight into the “enemy” unit that had snuck
through during the night (00:07:34:00)
o Even though they ran straight into the other unit, Scott and
the other soldiers in his unit managed to capture all the
soldiers in the other unit (00:08:01:00)
o At the time, Scott had a job working in Grand Haven and was taking classes at the
local community college (00:08:12:00)
 However, it all seemed sort of a drag for Scott, so he thought about going
onto active duty, if for nothing else than to receive the GI Bill; initially,
Scott’s enlistment in the National Guard was supposed to last for six
years, which was not too bad (00:08:25:00)
o Nevertheless, Scott eventually made the decision to go onto active-duty in the
regular Army (00:08:54:00)
 Scott remembers that when he went to the local recruiting office to go in
the regular Army, he had a couple of choices about what his job in the

�







Army would be; of the choices, Scott remembers two specifically:
microwave technician and aircraft engine repairman (00:08:57:00)
 Although Scott had already been trained as an infantryman, he did
not want to go into that (00:09:30:00)
 Eventually, Scott chose aircraft engine repair, which was what he
had scored highest in for his aptitude tests (00:09:34:00)
Within a matter of weeks, Scott was off to Fort Knox, Kentucky and then on to Fort
Eustis, Virginia for training (00:09:45:00)
o Initially, Scott was “put back into the system”; he received his haircut and
uniforms (00:09:56:00)
o The reasons why Scott decided to go onto active duty were equal parts getting
money to pay for his education and curiosity about what was happening in
Vietnam (00:10:05:00)
Prior to actually doing so, Scott had psychologically prepared himself to deploy to
Vietnam; he had signed the paperwork and whatever came afterwards, he was going to
accept it (00:10:25:00)
o Scott’s first recollection of hearing about the Vietnam War was in 1963; although
the nightly news occasionally showed videos of anti-war protestors, the coverage
of the war had not yet grown to what it would eventually be (00:11:01:00)
 In 1964, Scott recalls an incident happening in Vietnam where several
Americans were killed and it was after that incident that Scott remembers
actual American combat units being sent to Vietnam (00:11:37:00)
 For the most part, Scott did not pay too much attention to news about
Vietnam but he still knew about the conflict (00:12:02:00)
o Scott’s uncle had died fighting in Korea during the Korean War and that hung in
the back of his mind; in a way, Scott believed he should serve in the active duty to
“bring back” the Scott family name (00:12:15:00)
 Both Scott’s father and grandfather served in the Army, so there was a
tradition of military service within Scott’s family (00:12:44:00)
When Scott arrived at Fort Eustis, he went through all the training for aircraft engine
repair, after which he and the other soldiers received their assignments, with Scott’s
being to deploy to Vietnam (00:13:03:00)
o When Scott was at Fort Knox, he was asked point-blank where he wanted to serve
and he said “Vietnam” (00:13:23:00)
 When the officer instead offered Scott an assignment in Belgium, Scott
declined and said he wanted to deploy to Vietnam, which surprised the
officer (00:13:28:00)
 The officer tried to convince Scott to take the assignment in Belgium
because Scott had relatives living in Belgium at the time, which would
have been good PR for the Army (00:13:41:00)
There was about a year-and-a-half between when Scott finished his National Guard
training at Fort Ord and began his active-duty enlistment (00:14:06:00)
o During that time, Scott was working and attempting to take classes; however,
working twelve hours a day and trying to take even a single class was a tough
proposition (00:14:23:00)

�





Scott was working in the shipping department of a company, crating up
refrigeration units for the PXs (Post Exchanges) on military bases in
Vietnam; however, when Scott got over to Vietnam, he saw that apart
from being used in the PXs, those refrigeration units were being used to
store dead bodies for Graves Registration (00:14:33:00)
After he training finished at Fort Eustis, Scott was told to report to Fort Lewis,
Washington en-route to Vietnam (00:15:16:00)
o After leaving Fort Lewis, Scott first flew to Fairbanks, Alaska, then to Tokyo,
Japan and finally to Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam (00:15:33:00)
 Scott liked his brief stay in Tokyo so much that he ended up going back
there later on an R&amp;R (Rest and Recuperation) (00:15:51:00)
 The flight(s) over to Vietnam were aboard a jetliner owned by an airliner
named Braniff; Scott remembers the airliner’s name because they had
chosen the oddest color to paint their jetliners, a “baby poop yellow”
(00:16:03:00)
o The flight landed at Cam Ranh Bay in the early morning hours and Scott
remembers walking up to the doorway and feeling a huge blast of heat; to Scott, it
was like walking next to a blast furnace (00:16:53:00)
o Once they were off the jetliner, Scott and the other soldiers went through
processing, updating their paperwork and checking their shot records; if someone
lost their shot records, they had to go through all the shots again (00:17:10:00)
 Once the soldiers were through processing, they received a small book that
gave a brief history of Vietnam and information about the various
locations the soldiers would be assigned to (00:17:35:00)
 Scott had always been raised to treat people how he wanted to be treated,
so he became friends with several Vietnamese who worked on the base
where he was stationed (00:17:58:00)
o Cam Ranh Bay was only a temporary stop for Scott to just go through processing
and eventually, he and the other soldiers were broken down into battalions; once
in battalions, the men were assigned to companies (00:18:25:00)
 Scott ended up being assigned 34th Battalion, 14th Transportation Division,
which was headquartered in the city of Nha Trang (00:18:44:00)
 Once in Nha Trang, Scott was informed that he would be joining a unit
stationed in Qui Nhơn, which meant he would either joined the 540th
Transportation Company or the 79th Transportation Company; Scott ended
up joined the 540th Transportation (00:18:56:00)
 Apart from aircraft maintenance, the 540th also did General
Support, which meant they could do anything up to completely
rebuilding a destroyed aircraft (00:19:22:00)
Scott was with the 540th Transportation for about a month before he was assigned to
airfield security; the security force for the airfield where the company was stationed drew
soldiers from all the units stationed on the airfield (00:19:34:00)
o Scott and the other soldiers had always been taught that above all else, they were
infantrymen; it did not matter if their assignment was to be a cook, or mechanic,
or something else, they were infantrymen first (00:19:59:00)

�

o Although Scott did not want to be a spit-and-shine soldier, he would still keep his
brass polished and his shoes shined in attempts to get out of having to go on guard
duty for the night (00:20:16:00)
 However, there were other soldiers in the security force who would go
above and beyond, polishing their shoes until they could see their face in
the reflection (00:20:37:00)
 When the commander of the security force asked why Scott did not shine
his shoes and do all the extra stuff, Scott explained that if something
happened, he wanted to be out there (00:20:45:00)
The area around Qui Nhơn was oddly shaped; it started out wide and then narrowed down
into a peninsula into the South China Sea, with the airfield built near the base of the
peninsula (00:21:19:00)
o Beyond the airfield was a line of what Scott labeled as hills, although others
labeled them as mountains (00:21:40:00)
o In between the hills was what the soldiers had labeled “the Valley”, which was
where the majority of the fighting in the area took place; the Valley was about
three miles away from the airfield (00:21:55:00)
o The Vietnamese people living in the area felt more secure near the American
forces, so they built their houses right up to the security fences for the airfield
(00:22:19:00)
 Although having the houses close to the airfield made the Vietnamese feel
safe, it did not allow for a killing zone for the security force (00:22:29:00)
 One end of the airfield’s runway jutted up to the South China Sea with a
road going around it while the other end was surrounded by the tin
shanties and houses of the Vietnamese civilians (00:22:39:00)
 One time, a C-130 transport coming in for a landing lost its brakes,
slid off the end of the runway, and destroyed all of the shanties and
houses built there (00:22:54:00)
 The Vietnamese had a small bicycle-like device called a cyclo that they
would use as a quasi-taxi and once, when Scott was assigned to a guard
tower near the South China Sea, a cyclo was going past with a GI sitting
inside (00:23:17:00)
 A C-130 was reviving up for a takeover on the runway, so the GI
quickly got out before the cyclo was blown down the road; the
Vietnamese pedaling the cyclo never let go and went tumbling
right along with it down the road (00:23:28:00)
o Stationed in an area next to the airfield was a South Korean military unit
(00:23:51:00)
o Eventually, Scott was assigned to work in the guard tower for his company area,
although he was still considered part of the airfield security force (00:24:14:00)
 Around Christmas, a couple of Scott’s friends in the company, who knew
he had been assigned to the guard tower, brought him dinner
(00:24:22:00)
o Scott trusted the local Vietnamese who he interacted with (00:24:41:00)

�





However, there was one younger Vietnamese living in the area and the
soldiers could tell that he was Viet Cong, just by reading his mannerism
and the way he acted (00:24:47:00)
 One night, when Scott was again assigned to the guard tower, he saw
Vietnamese with rifles strapped on their backs riding bicycles out in the
open and naturally assumed they were Viet Cong (00:25:21:00)
 Scott called into the security force to report what he had seen and
the ask if he had permission to fire on them; however, he was told
not to fire until he was fired upon (00:25:39:00)
o Although Scott acknowledged the order, he did not feel
comfortable just letting what might have been Viet Cong
just slip away because he knew they were going to cause
some damage somewhere (00:25:57:00)
 There was a detachment of U.S. Navy personnel also stationed on
the airfield and the Viet Cong Scott had seen ended up attacking
the area where Navy personnel were located (00:26:09:00)
Once Scott completed his first assignment with airfield security, he was sent back to his
original company (00:26:34:00)
o At the time Scott rejoined it, the company had a large backlog of aircraft that
either needed to be repaired or rebuilt (00:26:49:00)
 In the cases where an aircraft was too badly damaged for the men to
repair, they sent it back to Oakland, California for repair (00:26:55:00)
 At the time, there was a “lull” in the fighting and the soldiers were
rebuilding aircraft just so they would have something to do (00:27:03:00)
o When Scott first joined his company in Vietnam, the company was working with
old piston-driven helicopters; however, those were being phased out and replaced
with newer helicopters, the ubiquitous Huey (00:27:15:00)
o Apart from repairing and rebuilding aircraft, there was also a facility set up on the
airfield to test repaired and rebuilt aircraft engines (00:27:32:00)
o One day, after Scott had returned to the company, he was working during the
second shift when all of a sudden, he and the other soldiers heard gunfire hitting
the side of their hanger (00:27:39:00)
o When Scott first arrived in Qui Nhơn, the company’s power came from a
generator set-up in the company area (00:27:59:00)
 However, the Viet Cong eventually snuck into the company area, threw a
satchel charge under the generator, destroying the generator and knocking
out the company’s power (00:28:07:00)
 A couple of months later, the Navy sailed a ship into Qui Nhơn harbor and
parked it next to the airfield; from the ship, the personnel on the airfield
were able to draw a steady supply of power (00:28:13:00)
 However, every once in a while, the Viet Cong would destroy the
power lines leading from the ship to the airfield (00:28:39:00)
In Scott’s opinion, if he or someone else did not have at least a little bit of fear in them,
they were going to do something stupid; that was something his father had told him and it
was something Scott followed for his entire tour (00:29:06:00)
o Usually, Scott would write two letters a week to his parents (00:29:29:00)

�

At one point, Scott was sent to Tân Sơn Nhứt Air Base near Saigon gone to go through a
training program, both as a refresher course and to update him on any new techniques
that had been developed (00:29:43:00)
o The first day Scott was at Tân Sơn Nhứt, the base came under the first major
enemy mortar and rocket attack Scott had ever been in; according to what Scott
heard later, the enemy launched one hundred and seventy-two rockets that night
alone (00:30:21:00)
o Tân Sơn Nhứt was just a stop-over for Scott; the actual school was located in a
town named Vũng Tàu, which was supposedly a safe area manned by Australian
and American soldiers (00:31:17:00)
 The school at Vũng Tàu was a training facility for all Army aircraft
personnel (00:31:31:00)
 While Scott was waiting at Tân Sơn Nhứt for a helicopter to take him to
Vũng Tàu, the rocket attack happened; as soon as the attack happened,
Scott woke up, grabbed a corner of the mattress he had been sleeping on,
and rolled onto the floor (00:31:41:00)
 A lieutenant who was sleeping nearby asked what Scott was doing
and Scott said if there was debris, it would have to go through that
mattress first; the lieutenant then did the same thing (00:32:09:00)
o The day after the enemy mortar and rocket attack, Scott and the other personnel
could see where the incoming rounds had hit; luckily, nothing hit the building
where Scott was sleeping, although they were close (00:32:21:00)
o The whole time Scott was in the safe area at Vũng Tàu, he could not sleep
because he was so used to a commotion happening during the night, such as the
enemy sending up flares (00:32:49:00)
 Scott finished the training at Vũng Tàu, returned to Qui Nhơn, and slept
like a baby that first night (00:33:01:00)

Tet Offensive / Misc. Stories (00:33:23:00)
 By February 1968, Scott and the other personnel on the airfield had heard whispers about
an offensive during the upcoming Tet holiday; although the airfield had already gone
through one Tet offensive, it had not been too bad (00:33:23:00)
o Tet was the start of the Vietnamese New Year’s celebration and during the first
offensive, although the area around the airfield was hit, it was not bad and most of
the fighting was confined to the Valley (00:33:37:00)
o According to what the men had been hearing, the Tet offensive in 1968 was
supposed to begin February 1st; however, Scott did not believe that and told a
friend that he (Scott) thought the Viet Cong were going to attack them on
February 22nd at two o’clock in the morning (00:34:01:00)
 Just as Scott somehow predicted, the Viet Cong ended up attacking the
airfield on February 22nd at two o’clock in the morning (00:34:17:00)
o Once the attack on February 22nd happened, “all hell broke loose”; apart from
lobbing mortar and rocket rounds onto the airfield, the Viet Cong were also trying
to get through the various gates around the airfield, although the personnel
manning the gates managed to stop them (00:34:20:00)

�

When the gates closed at night, the personnel defending the gates would
pull spools of concertina razor wire across the entrance (00:35:17:00)
 The security force for the airfield was unable to booby-trap outside the
perimeter fence because the Vietnamese housing butted directly up to the
fence (00:36:02:00)
 Whenever a soldier was assigned to tower guard duty, he was given three
flares; one flare was illumination, one flare was red to signal the tower
was under attack, and one flare was green, although Scott cannot
remember what it signaled (00:36:34:00)
 When the Tet offensive began, one of the men in the security force
was in a guard tower built on an area where the airfield’s perimeter
suddenly jutted out and that was surrounded on three sides by
Vietnamese houses (00:36:57:00)
o As the Vietnamese started coming through the houses, the
man in the tower tried to set off one of his flares; when one
of the flares finally did go off, it nearly took the man’s
helmet off, shot through the guard tower and floated into
the airfield (00:37:08:00)
o The man in the guard tower was lucky that there was a
reactionary force that was able to come in and give him
support (00:37:25:00)
o By the time the Tet offensive began, Scott was back on guard duty, although he
was on the other side of the airfield from where the incident with the flare
occurred (00:37:35:00)
 When Scott was on guard duty, officers would occasionally come by to
check and make sure Scott and the other guards were alert (00:37:54:00)
 Once, one of the officers making the rounds was wearing an Army
raincoat; however, the way the lights were set up and the color of
the raincoat made it hard to see the officer (00:38:01:00)
 Scott “captured” the officer and held him until the sergeant-of-theguard came out to verify that who the officer was; because the
officer was not wearing any symbols of his rank, Scott was within
his right to hold the officer (00:38:28:00)
o In the end, the airfield ended up being under siege for four days during the Tet
Offensive (00:39:52:00)
 The personnel on the airfield were told to hold the airfield for those four
days and they would then be relieved by soldiers from the 1st Cavalry
Division (00:39:56:00)
 For the most part, the personnel were taking enemy fire and were not
sending much back (00:40:11:00)
 If the 1st Cavalry had not shown up, there was a ready-reactionary force on
the airfield that was going to go into the town of Qui Nhơn itself and clear
the town out house-to-house (00:40:24:00)
 However, the soldiers in the ready-reactionary force had not been
trained in fighting house-to-house and the houses in Qui Nhơn

�







were especially treacherous because there were so many different
nooks and crannies (00:40:38:00)
 Scott was the only soldier on the ready-reactionary force who had
any sort of infantry training; although all the personnel had gone
through basic training, Scott was the only one who had gone
through advanced infantry training (00:41:01:00)
 Nevertheless, the 1st Cavalry did come in after four days and
cleared the town out (00:41:15:00)
 During the siege was the first time the personnel on the airfield had to eat
C-Rations because the airfield’s cooks had been re-assigned to help guard
the perimeter (00:41:28:00)
 At one point during the siege, Scott was located in a bunker that took a
direct hit from an enemy mortar round (00:41:38:00)
 The “bunker” consisted of a metal shipping containers topped with
three or four layers of sandbags and surrounded by another layer of
sandbags; occasionally, two shipping containers were placed sideby-side to make the bunker bigger (00:41:53:00)
 To this day, the low-end of Scott’s hearing is not normal as a result
of the concussion from when mortar round impacted (00:42:25:00)
 None of the soldiers in the bunker were wounded, although if the
bunker had been hit by multiple mortar rounds, it might have been
a different story (00:42:38:00)
The personnel on the airfield had Mama-sans who would come onto the airfield to do the
men’s laundry, with the men paying them each week; as well, there was also Vietnamese
kitchen-help and carpenters who worked on the base (00:43:02:00)
o One day, Scott came out of his hooch and saw one of the Vietnamese workers
counting off steps (00:43:25:00)
 Scott told his platoon sergeant what he had seen and when the Vietnamese
worker left for the day, they stopped him at the gate and found he had
marked down the distances for everything on the airfield (00:43:46:00)
Scott eventually took an extension of his tour and part of the extension was a thirty-day
leave, so Scott ended up coming home for Christmas (00:44:35:00)
o Scott’s family had a space-heater in their house and Scott spent most of his time
home sitting next to it; his body was so used to be being in 130°s and midsummer weather (00:44:56:00)
During his tour, Scott knew he was witnessing history, which served as incentive for him
to take as many pictures as he could of what he saw and to try to obtain as much
materials as he could (00:45:27:00)
Whenever he received a promotion, Scott had to fly from Qui Nhơn back to Tân Sơn
Nhứt and during the flight, the helicopter would fly out over the ocean (00:46:07:00)
At one point, Scott received an R&amp;R to go to Japan, which was seven days being out of
enemy gunfire and harm’s way (00:46:19:00)
o Scott looked at the R&amp;R partially as an educational opportunity, where he could
learn about yet another culture (00:46:35:00)
 Scott liked going to Japan, especially because the Japanese people were
very friendly (00:46:41:00)

�











o During the R&amp;R, Scott ended up riding on a Japanese bullet train and hydrofoil,
visiting the Olympic village in Tokyo, visiting a religious temple, and seeing Mt.
Fuji from a distancing (00:46:47:00)
o Scott ended up staying in a place labeled “the Japanese Riviera”, which was
centered around the town of Atami (00:47:12:00)
While working in his company, one of the jobs Scott really got involved in was ordering
parts for the company’s engine shop; the personnel working in the engine shop always
wanted spare parts on-hand so they never had to wait for parts to come in (00:47:25:00)
o Over time, Scott impressed the others with how organized his work was in regards
to making sure there were always spare parts (00:47:45:00)
 At one point, a warrant officer in a Cobra attack helicopter unit came in
looking for spare parts (00:47:52:00)
 Scott asked what the warrant officer was looking for and when the
officer told him, Scott gave him the parts; after the officer left,
Scott’s platoon sergeant asked why Scott had given the officer the
parts and Scott said it was a good thing if the other unit wanted to
make the repairs (00:48:11:00)
 A couple of days later, the warrant officer came back and asked if Scott
would like to take a ride in one of the Cobras; Scott asked for just a minute
so he could go and grab his camera (00:48:32:00)
During one night, Scott was able to watch an attack by an Air Force gunship named
“Puff, the Magic Dragon” (00:48:53:00)
o The gunships consisted of three mini-guns all pointed out of one side of the
aircraft; the aircraft would fly in a circle with that side pointed towards the ground
and each mini-gun would fire in 30sec bursts (00:49:06:00)
o The personnel who worked on the gunship told the other men that a single 30sec
burst could cover every square inch of a football field (00:49:22:00)
o Another time, Scott watched gun strafing runs made by F-4 Phantom jet fighters
(00:49:43:00)
Scott was only injured once during his tour, when he jumped out of a helicopter, twisted
his ankle, and tore some of his ligaments (00:49:54:00)
o Although the Army was willing to give him a Purple Heart for the injury, Scott
declined (00:50:05:00)
Scott spent the majority of his tour at Qui Nhơn, although couple of times he went into
the Valley to help dispose of old sheet metal at a dumpsite (00:50:28:00)
o When the soldiers got to the dumpsite, they were swarmed by Vietnamese;
although the men were initially suspicious, they talked it over and decided to let
the Vietnamese had the sheet metal to use in their homes (00:51:05:00)
A couple of the tricks the Viet Cong used were booby-trapping left-over American
supplies and wrapping a grenade in electrical tape and throwing it into the fuel reservoir
of a downed aircraft; when the Americans came to pick up the aircraft, it was a readymade bomb (00:51:35:00)
Given the location of the airfield, the personnel had access to a beach right on the South
China Sea and Scott went there a couple of times (00:52:05:00)

�






o At the time, there was a branch of the Army called Special Services and it was
their job to take care of all recreational facilities for the soldiers, such as a the
beach at Qui Nhơn (00:52:18:00)
During his tour, Scott happened to run into a girl who he had gone to grade school with in
Michigan and who was working as a nurse (00:52:56:00)
From his experiences, Scott and the other soldiers kept the same attitude throughout their
entire tour (00:53:15:00)
o However, Scott did not realize how unpopular the war had become in the United
States until he returned home (00:53:29:00)
 On his way home, Scott had to go through Seattle-Tacoma International
Airport and as he was walking through the airport, someone walked up to
him, spit on him, and called him a “baby-killer” (00:53:44:00)
 After the incident in the airport, Scott’s attitude changed and he became
more resentful of the anti-war protestors (00:54:01:00)
o Most of the soldiers Scott served with did a good job in their assignments but
above all else, they just wanted to get home (00:54:30:00)
Some of the other veterans Scott knows have mental problems as a result of their time in
the service and when Scott himself came home, he had nightmares at first (00:54:56:00)
o One night, Scott ran out of his house scream that they were under attack and he
threw a punch at his father, who was already up and getting ready to go to work;
Scott’s father replied by punching Scott and knocking him out before putting him
back in his bed (00:55:28:00)
 Scott’s father knew what Scott was going through, have served in combat
himself (00:55:41:00)
o When he started going to community college, Scott had a psychology professor
and one night, Scott and the professor sat and just talked; it was the professor who
suggested Scott talk about what he had gone through (00:56:00:00)
 The professor rationalized Scott’s experiences in that he had been put into
a situation where either Scott had to kill the enemy or the enemy was
going to kill him (00:56:30:00)
 Although the professor said Scott did not need to talk about everything
that happened, he should at least bring out enough to ease the anxiety built
up inside him (00:56:41:00)
Scott has not really stayed in contact with the other men he served with; for the most part,
once the men got home, it was just the fact that they had made it through and were happy
to be home (00:56:52:00)
o One of the constant things the men talked about was wanting to go home and
what they were going to do when they got there; one of Scott’s biggest cravings
was to have a McDonald’s hamburger (00:57:12:00)

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Ken Scott
(01:25:32)
(00:01) Background Information
•
•
•

Ken was born in Alma, MI in 1937
His parents were teachers
He went to Central Michigan University in 1955 and graduated in 1960

(01:06) Training
•
•
•

ROTC training was mandatory for the first 2 years of collage
Ken went to Fort Eustis, VA as an obligated volunteer for 2 years after college
His first duty was to go to Korea

(06:50) Deployment
•
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•

Ken was sent to Camp Casey, Korea with the 7th infantry 17th transportation battalion and
was assigned to the C Company, an armored carrier company
He got on a 707 jet and flew from San Francisco to Hawaii, Wake Island, Japan, and then
landed in Korea
Korea smelt bad because of the open sewers and there were bullet holes in buildings
Ken moved to Camp Casey and his duties were to do special assignment jobs and be the
platoon leader
They were some of the first troops to get the M-113 armored personnel carrier
Their job was to support the battle groups
Ken was there in from 1961 through 1962
The 1st Cavalry and the 7th Infantry divisions were still in Korea
He was extended for 90 more days because of the assassination of JFK
Ken was the company commander of C company

(16:35) After Korea
•
•
•
•
•
•

Ken went to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri
He was put in charge of the motor pool as lieutenant
Ken was then sent to Fort Carson, CO
He was part of the 4th Squadron, 12th Cavalry Regiment in the 5th Mechanized Division
Ken made senior first lieutenant
They set up loading plans at Fort Carson from 1962 until 1964

�(18:40) Germany
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•
•
•
•
•
•

Ken made captain and was sent to Mannheim, Germany with the 28th transportation
battalion of the 37th transportation group
He commanded a heavy truck company that carried tanks
They moved tanks from the Nancy depot in France to the Mainz depot in Germany when
Charles De Gaulle kicked the US out of France
The GIs put French wine and bread in the tanks’ gun barrels so they could smuggle them
through the border check
The Germans didn’t want much truck traffic on the Autobahn so they had to get special
permission to drive on it
Ken was in charge of the company for a year
In the fall of 1965 they pulled out of Germany

(22:30) Training for Vietnam
Ken was sent to Fort Campbell, Kentucky
He activated the 592nd transportation company
They were at Fort Campbell from June 19, 1966 until March of 1967
Ken received new troops from South Carolina and found out that most of them were from
New York City and didn’t know how to drive
• They flew to Oakland, CA and boarded a ship to Vietnam
•
•
•
•

(25:40) Vietnam
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•
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•

After 17 days at sea they landed at Okinawa, Japan
There were 10 truck companies; Ken’s company had 188 men
They went to Vung Tau and then to Cam Ranh Bay
Cam Ranh was a very deep port
Ken got on a LCU and went to shore
He had 30 days to get the camp ready for the trucks that were coming in
They built floors for the tents and sand bagged around the whole area for wind protection
When they went out in a convoy they would occasionally get shot at by snipers
Their camp was near a Vietnamese village and some of the village people worked in their
camp
There were a lot of geckoes around and some of the soldiers would feed them
On one convoy they went almost all the way to Cambodia
Most of the time they stayed on the beach
Cam Ranh Bay was secured so they didn’t have any resistance at their camp

�•
•

They never had to put armor plating on their trucks
There wasn’t any support for the convoy

(47:12) Back to the US
•
•
•
•
•

Ken went to Fort Riley, KS; the 9th and 1st divisions had gone to Vietnam
He went to work with the 23rd forward air support command
Ken made battalion commander and then major
They had to get the camp ready for the ROTC summer camp
Then he was sent to Fort Eustis, VA for an advanced course

(48:50) Saigon
• Ken was sent to Saigon in 1969 and 1970
• He was assigned to be a vessel movements officer and went to work for the first
lieutenant
• In Long Binh, a city east of Saigon, he had to move the 48th transport truck division to the
4th command
• Ken became the highway operations commander
• He was playing volleyball and injured his knee, so he had to go to Japan for surgery
• Ken was at Camp Drake, Japan for 10 days after his surgery
• He got sent to Valley Forge, PA for rehabilitation
• His tour wasn’t completed in Vietnam and he wanted to go back to finish it
• Ken went back to his unit and finished his tour
• They sent him to Fort Eustis to work with a new heavy truck
• He went to Japan with his family for 3 years and got to visit Hong Kong and Korea
(58:24) Teaching
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•

Ken moved to Leavenworth, KS
He then became a staff officer in Hawaii
While in Hawaii he received his masters degree from Central Michigan University
In 1980 he went to Western Illinois University to become their professor of Military
Science
His son went through the ROTC program and then went into the Army for 5 years
Ken’s son and daughter both graduated from WIU
He moved a total of 26 times while he was in the Military
Ken got a job at Fort Sheridan, IL
He put in for retirement and bought a house in Grand Rapids, MI
Ken taught at Union and Creston for 8 years in Grand Rapids

�•
•
•
•
•

He spent 14 years in the ROTC program
In 1999 he retired
Ken is now a member of the VFW, the American Legion, the Vietnam Veterans
Association, and the Army Navy Club of Grand Rapids
Ken thinks the Army has changed a lot recently mostly because of technology
In 1967 he was told by the head of graduate programs at Central Michigan University
that he was not welcome on campus because he was in the Vietnam War

�BIOGRAPHY

KENNETH G. SCOTT

LIEUTENANT COLONEL, UNITED STATES ARMY, RETIRED


Born in Michigan in 1937, Colonel Scott graduated from Sheridan Rural
Agricultural High School in 1955. He attended Central Michigan University
where he enrolled in the Senior ROTC Program. He graduated in 1960 with a
B.S. Degree and was commissioned a Second Lieutenant. Colonel Scott earned
a M.A. Degree in Management from Central Michigan University in 1978. He
attended the Transportation Officer Basic (1961) , Advanced (1969), courses and
the United States Army Command and General Staff (1977).
He has served stateside at Fort Eustis, Virginia, Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri;
Fort Carson , Colorado; Fort Riley, Kansas; Fort Leavenworth, Kansas; Fort
Campbell, Kentucky; and Fort Sheridan, Illinois. His overseas assignments
include tours in Korea, Germany, Vietnam (2), Japan and Hawaii.
Command assignments were in Korea as a Company commander of an
Armored Carrier Company with the 7th Infantry Division, company Commander
of a Heavy Truck Company in Germany, Company Commander of a Light Truck
Company in Vietnam, and Battalion commander of a Transportation Battalion at
Fort Riley, Kansas. Major Staff Assignments were S-3 Truck Transportation
Battalion in Germany and Vietnam ; Highway Operations Officer Transportation
Group in Vietnam; Project Officer Combat Development command; Staff
Transportation Officer G-4 US Army Japan; Chief Transportation, Energy and
Troop Support Division DCSLOG ,WESTCOM Hawaii; Director Industrial
Operations, Fort Sheridan, Illinois. In 1980, he became the Professor of Military
Science at Northern Illinois University.
Colonel Scott retired from the United States Army in October 1985, from Fort
Sheridan, Illinois, where he was the Director of Logistics . He joined the Grand
Rapids Public Schools Junior ROTC Department as an instructor in 1985. He
assumed the position of Facilitator of Army Instruction in August 1991. He
retired from the Grand Rapids Public Schools on 31 July 1999.
Decorations awarded to Colonel Scott include the Bronze Star Medal (1 OLC),
Meritorious Service Medal (1 OLC), Army commendation Medal (2 OLC),
Meritorious Unit Commendation (1 OLC), National Defense Service Medal,
Republic of Korea Presidential Unit citation , Vietnam Service Medal, Vietnam
Campaign Medal with 60 Device, Vietnam Cross of Gallantry with Palm, Army
Service Ribbon , and Overseas service Ribbon with numeral 3 , Korea Defense
Service Medal. He also was awarded the Outstanding Civilian Service Medal for
his JROTC Service. Colonel Scott was inducted into the Central Michigan

�University ROTC Hall of Fame in February 2000.
Colonel Scott is a life member of The Military Officers Association of America ,
The Veterans of Foreign Wars , The American Legion And the Vietnam Veterans
of America. He is also a member of the Army and Navy Club of Grand Rapids
and Kiwanis Club of Grand Rapids North .
Colonel Scott is married to the former Carol F. Jenks of Sheridan, Michigan .
They have a son , Mark O. Scott who has q·children . He is an Emergency Room
Doctor in Kansas City , Mo. They also have a daughter, Laura M. Hamacher,
who is married to an attorney , has two children.

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                <text>One leaf from Scripta super quattuor libros Sententiarum Petri Lombardi by Thomas de Argentina and edited by Pallas Spangel. Printed in Strassburg by Martin Flach (Printer of Strassburg) in 1490. [GW M46615; ISTC it00343000]</text>
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                  <text>A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community.</text>
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&#13;
Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. &#13;
&#13;
Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections.&#13;
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Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. &#13;
&#13;
Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections.&#13;
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              <name>Format</name>
              <description>The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource</description>
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                <elementText elementTextId="832663">
                  <text>Image</text>
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              <name>Type</name>
              <description>The nature or genre of the resource</description>
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                <elementText elementTextId="832664">
                  <text>image/jpeg</text>
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              </elementTextContainer>
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            <element elementId="44">
              <name>Language</name>
              <description>A language of the resource</description>
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                <elementText elementTextId="832665">
                  <text>eng</text>
                </elementText>
              </elementTextContainer>
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    <itemType itemTypeId="6">
      <name>Still Image</name>
      <description>A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.</description>
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      <elementSet elementSetId="1">
        <name>Dublin Core</name>
        <description>The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.</description>
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          <element elementId="43">
            <name>Identifier</name>
            <description>An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context</description>
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                <text>RHC-183_I146-0010</text>
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            <name>Creator</name>
            <description>An entity primarily responsible for making the resource</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="1014030">
                <text>Gilbert, Douglas R.</text>
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          <element elementId="40">
            <name>Date</name>
            <description>A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource</description>
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                <text>1968-08-07</text>
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          <element elementId="50">
            <name>Title</name>
            <description>A name given to the resource</description>
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                <text>Sculpture in Karlsruhe City Park, Germany</text>
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            </elementTextContainer>
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          <element elementId="41">
            <name>Description</name>
            <description>An account of the resource</description>
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                <text>Black and white photograph of an outdoor owl sculpture located in a wooded area in the Karlsruhe Schlossgarten, or Palace Garden, the landscape park situated north of the Karlsruhe Palace in Germany. Scanned from the negative.</text>
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            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="49">
            <name>Subject</name>
            <description>The topic of the resource</description>
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                <text>Karlsruhe (Germany)</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="1014035">
                <text>Gardens--Germany--Karlsruhe</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="1014036">
                <text>Parks--Germany--Karlsruhe</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="1014037">
                <text>Sculptures--Germany--Karlsruhe</text>
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                <text>Black-and-white photography</text>
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          <element elementId="48">
            <name>Source</name>
            <description>A related resource from which the described resource is derived</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="1014039">
                <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783"&gt;Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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            <name>Rights</name>
            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="1014041">
                <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/"&gt;In Copyright&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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            <name>Type</name>
            <description>The nature or genre of the resource</description>
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                <text>Image</text>
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            <name>Format</name>
            <description>The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="1014043">
                <text>image/jpeg</text>
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            </elementTextContainer>
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          <element elementId="38">
            <name>Coverage</name>
            <description>The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="1014044">
                <text>1960s</text>
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          <element elementId="45">
            <name>Publisher</name>
            <description>An entity responsible for making the resource available</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="1038544">
                <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives</text>
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  </item>
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