856 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1d95be1b5c97a0f7cd525a2a050f9164.pdf 091f6f4ebc1f241ad13495591965b010 PDF Text Text ... ORAL STATEHENT BY RUSSELL G. MAWBY I. INTRODUCTION ~M..- ~~~~~~ s Russell Mawby, President of the W.K. Kellogg Foundation of Battle Creek, Michigan. I am appearing this morning as Chairman of the Legislation and Regulations Committee of the Council on FouJdations, a nonprofit, membership organization whose membe D' some ~ Af o un d a t i o n s from across the country. include ~h ~n W--<- appreciate s the opportunity to testify this morning on S. 464, a bill of vital importance to foundations and their charitable beneficiaries. Wi t h ~he-5tibeGmm4 t~ee~~ermi s sio I will focus on the income payout issue; the bill also ~~ includes three useful technical changes. - These are addressed in my prepared statement. The Importance of Foundations As the members of the panel have already ges e~ ,,;.,....~c_ ' - foundations playa special and vital role in re- sponding to the needs of our society"-.f e . /q u e react quicKly to emerging social concerns; they forefront of adva ncing medical and scientific research; they nurture important new institutions; and y bar after year they also meet basic needs of the American L--:-- . t he i peop I e 1n e1r commun1. t'1es. �- 2 Safeguards on Foundation Performance To insure that foundations faithfully discharge their public trust, Congress has ~ enacted a compre- hensive and detailed set of rules regulating every aspect of foundation operations. In setting up this system of regulations, Congress explicitly and decisively rejected proposals to require foundations to go out of existence after a fixed period. In particular, the income payout requirement was specifically not designed either to erode the purchasing power of foundations or to restrict foundation investment policy. Impact of Present Law on Foundations Unfortunately, the long-term ability of foundations to continue to support the vast array of charitable activities to which they are committed is in serious doubt. Why? Because as a result of the high inflation and high interest rates of recent years, the requirement of present law that foundations distribute their entire current income is contributing to rapid erosion of foundation assets and is distorting foundations' investment policies. Present law requires foundations to distribute annually the greater of 5% of the value of their investment assets or their entire current income. The basic objective of this payout rule -- to insure that every foundation makes �- 3 - a substantial current distribution to charity -- is sound. On the other hand, under current economic conditions the requirement that foundations distribute their entire current ~ -k income ~~~ -~~ -~~~ delayed death sentence. ~ When Congress enacted the income payout rule, current yields on a well-managed, balanced portfolio were significantly below 5%; inflation had averaged bet e~n 2% ~ a 3% over the preceding decade; and stocks were growing in value much more rapidly than inflation. Today interest rates on debt securities like Treasury bills and certificates of deposit range from ~~~~~ 13% to ~most 17%; inflation persists at 10% to 12%; and real stock values have declined sharply over the last decade. Under these radically different economic conditions, the income payout requirement makes it virtually impossible for a foundation to preserve its future grant capability. While colleges, universities, and every other class of charitable organization can take advantage of the high yields available on bonds and other debt investments to help preserve their charitable purchasing power, foundations cannot. If a foundation continues to invest in a diversified {po r t f o liO including substantial debt holdings, it can expect �- 4 to earn high current yields, but will be required to distribute the entire yield and consequently can do nothing to offset inflation. If inflation persists, a foundation with such holdings will find itself shrunk to 1/3 of its present -already diminished -- size in 30 years. On the other hand, a foundation which wishes to preserve its future capacity to serve its charitable beneficiaries must skew its investment decisions to select its holdings largely from those which have low current yields. Unfortunately such investment strategies also carry significantly greater risk than traditional, more conservative and more balanced foundation investments. For example, many investment advisors are urging foundations to buy "growth" ".- stocks, real estate, commodities, and stock of foreign .", corporations, or at least to invest in securities with (./ /" nominal yields well below 5%. In a recent study (attached to my full statement) Professor Peter Williamson of the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth concluded that this investment strategy was simply too risky for most foundations. Consequently, the income payout rule presents foundations with a genuine dilemma. Traditional investment strategies result in rapid erosion of grant capability while alternative strategies involve inappropriate risks. As a result of these factors, foundation assets in real dollars have fallen dramatically ~~ widespread termination of foundations ~ there has been Meanwh "ie, the rate of creation of new foundations has fallen dramatically __ +- �- S. 464: 5 - The Solution S. 464 is designed to cope squarely with these problems by amending the law to remove the requirement that foundations distribute their entire current income, while leaving in effect the requirement that they distribute at least 5% of their assets' value each year for charitable / uses. The maintenance of the 5% distribution rule represents an appropriate balance between foundations' immediate support of current charitable enterprises and the very real need to maintain the ability of foundations to continue that support in the future. reasonable one. n ee ~ .,~ ~ ~ ro esso~ i The 5 % level is a 1 ~~~ i mson~ ~ indicates that, over the period 1926 to 1979, the real return on a balanced portfolio s u eh a s h os e s e~ e c t e c o l l e ges and univers j,t ::i:e-s was approximately 4.5%. t by In more recent years the real return has been significantly below that figure. Consequently, a payout requirement of 5% fixes foundation distributions to charity somewhat above the full real return on their assets. On the other hand, by eliminating the income payout rule, S. 464 eliminates an artificial constraint imposed on foundation investment decisions by the tax law, and removes unintended by Congress in Foundations 464 as a way of protecting the lon g ability of foundations to serve society. t~ �S t a t em e n tb y MAR 25198 1 RUSSELL G . MAWBY C h a i rm a n , L e g i s l a t i o na n dR e g u l a t i o n sC omm i t t e e C o u n c i lo nF o u n d a t i o n s b e f o r e S u b c omm i t t e eo nT a x a t i o na n dD e b tM a n a g em e n t C omm i t t e eo nF i n a n c e U n i t e dS t a t e sS e n a t e 1 0 : 0 0 a .m . ,M a r c h 3 1 ,1 9 8 1 ~ shin ton, D .C . �SUMMARY Foundations playa special and vital role in responding to the needs of our society. Unfortunately, the ability of foundations to continue to support charitable activities is in serious doubt. From 1972 to 1979 the real value of foundation assets fell by nearly 40%, and from 1970 to 1979 foundation grants fell from 9.2% to 5.2% of all charitable contributions. As a result of high interest rates and high inflation, the requirement of current law that foundations distribute their entire current income has contributed significantly to this erosion of foundations" ability to serve the public. While all other classes of charitable organizations can use the high yields available on certificates of deposit and other debt securities to try to preserve their charitable purchasing power against the inroads of inflation, foundations cannot. Consequently, foundations must either accept the rapid erosion of their grant capability or skew their investment decisions in favor of more risky investment strategies offering the chance o .c i~ appreciation. . I Neither of these damaging results was intended by Congress when it enacted the payout rule in 1969. In :fact, in 1969 Congress specifically rejected a proposal to limpose a fixed duration on foundations' period of e istence~ S. 464 would amend the payout requirement . to eliminate the damaging effects of current law. Specifically, S. 464 would eliminate the requirement that foundations distribute their entire current income while leaving in effect the requirement that they distribute annually 5% of the value of their investment assets. By maintaining the 5% payout requirement the bill would insure that all foundations continue to make substantial current charitable distributions. Indeed, 5% is more than historical real returns on a balanced investment portfolio. At the same time, by eliminating the requirement that foundations distribute their entire current income, S. 464 would give foundations the investment flexibility which they need if they are to preserve their long-term ability to serve the public. �Statement by RUSSELL G. MAWBY before Subcommittee on Taxation and Debt Management of the U.S. Senate Finance Committee 10:00 a.m., March 31, 1981 Washington, D.C. S. 464: I. THE FOUNDATION PAYOUT REQUIREMENT INTRODUCTION My name is Russell Mawby. I am Chairman of the Legislation and Regulations Committee of the Council on Foundations (the "Council")., The Council on Foundations is a nonprofit, membership organization whose members include some 900 private foundations from across the country. The Council appreciates the Subcommittee's invitation to testify on S. 464, a bill of vital importance to foundations and their charitable beneficiaries. Current law requires that private foundations annually distribute to operating charities the greater of 5% of the value of their investment assets or their total current income, that is, total income less long-term capital gains. Because of persistent high interest rates �- 2 - and high rates of inflation, the requirement that foundations pay income above 5% of asset value seriously distorts their investment decisions and reduces the long-term capacity of foundations to support charitable work. s. 464 would eliminate the requirement that all income be paid out, but would not alter the present rule that foundations must each year distribute for charitable purposes at least 5% of their asset value. Because S. 464 preserves this 5% distribution requirement of present law, it insures that foundations will continue substantial current support of charitable activities. At the same time, it would give foundations the investment flexibility which they so desperately need if they are to preserve their continued ability to respond to human needs. II. WHY WE WILL NEED FOUNDATIONS IN THE FUTURE Foundations contributed 9.2% of all charitable gifts from private sources in 1970; by 1979 they accounted for only 5.2% of such gifts. This diminution in the capacity of foundations affects the entire charitable sector. Foundations give charitable, educational, cultural and scientific service organizations an alternative source of funds to government support. Foundations provide venture capital to the philanthropic sector by funding new ideas and new enterprises and by helping new agencies and new groups �- to gain a toe-hold. 3 - Foundations fund many of the sector's research and development efforts, and use their relatively flexible resources to meet society's emergencies and its newly perceived needs. Accordingly, in the measure that foundation grant capacity is less in the future than it is now, operating agencies and philanthropy as a whole will be more vulnerable, less able to react to emergency, less able to take advantage of opportunity, and less able to plan for the future. The early years of foundation giving in the United States offer dramatic testimony to the service foundations render. "I In those years, foundation funds helped free the South of hookworm, virtually eliminated malaria and yellow fever from l the United States, and reformed medical education to rank American health care wi th the world's best. I In later years foundation funding of science supported Goddard's early research in rocket engineering, the construction of the first nuclear accelerator, the development of the electron microscope and the oscilloscope, and research leading to our current knowledge of DNA which some observers term the single most significant advance in biology in this century. When television emerged, private foundations recognized its educational potential and gave massive �- 4 support. All 282 public TV stations received foundation funds for equipment, operation and other services, and one foundation alone committed $293 million to public TV in the 25 years beginning in 1952. Following World War II, foundations mirrored the society in responding to the aspirations of Blacks and other minorities to achieve full status as citizens and participants in the bounty of our society. There was a trend from research toward action in housing, education, employment and inner-city problems. As the decade of the 80's begins, foundations seem to be emphasizing regional approaches, working toward cooperation among themselves and with government. growing emphasis on comm ni~ There is a development and the preserva- tion and furtherance of neighborhoods and communities. At the same time, foundations have continued to support research at private universities and have sought to strengthen traditional institutions in their role as private alternatives to government-funded institutions. Foundations provide technical assistance and financial support to community groups of every kind; they grant funds for the special needs of the local hospital and the local school; they provide services for the preschooler and for the elderly. Foundations continue to support art and cultural activities as well as traditional social service organizations serving youths, the aged and all other groups in our society. �- 5 - The need for foundations to support innovative charitable activities will be as great tomorrow as it is today. It would, therefore, be shortsighted to apply so many foundation resources to current problems at the sacrifice of the capability of foundations to respond in the future as they have in the past. What foundations have done in the past suggests what foundations can do in the future -- if they have sufficient resources. III. FOUNDATION GRANT CAPABILITY IS RAPIDLY ERODING However, the rapid erosion of foundation grant capability in recent years threatens to eliminate foundations as a vital part of American philanthropy. This decline in the real value of foundation assets, and thus foundation grant capability, is documented by data presented in the most recent edition of The Foundation Directory and summarized in the chart on page 6. The chart shows the changes, for all foundations with assets of over $1 million, in both the nominal and real value of assets over the period from 1965 through 1977. These foundations account for 93% of all foundation assets and 92% of all foundation grants. As the chart indicates, foundations enjoyed a significant increase in both the nominal and real value of their assets from 1965 through 1972. However, from 1972 to 1977 the nominal value of foundation assets increased only slightly and the real value fell by 29.2%. �6 �- 7 While comprehensive data such as that contained in The Foundation Directory are not available for the period since 1977, data collected by the Council on Foundations in a recent survey of its members indicate that the decline in the real value of foundation assets has continued. From 1977 through 1979 the real value of the assets of the foundations surveyed declined by approximately 11%. Thus over the eight year period from 1972 through 1979 the real value of foundation assets fell by almost 40%. If the erosion continues at this rate, in twenty years the ability of foundations to support charitable activities will be only a quarter of what it is today. As these figures suggest, what is at stake is not the continued existence of ~ particular foundation, but rather the continued ability of foundations as a whole to support important charitable works. Because these figures take into account gifts of additional assets to both existing and newly created foundations, they demonstrate dramatically that the flow of new capital into the foundation sector has been insufficient to offset the erosion of the existing assets of foundations. In fact, as a result of the restrictions imposed on private foundations by the Tax Reform Act of 1969, there has been very widespread termination of foundations while the rate of creation of new foundations has fallen dramatically. This trend has been clearly documented in a study prepared for the National Commission on Private �- 8 Philanthropy and Public Needs, the results of which are summarized in the chart on page 9. The study examined the rate of creation and dissolution of foundations during the period from 1968 through 1972 in twelve key states, which together account for over 50% of all foundations. It demonstrated a sharp decline in the rate of creation of new foundations from 1968 through 1970. Over the same period, dissolutions of private foundations increased dramatically, to a level far in excess of the "birth rate" of new foundations. This data on foundation "birth" and "death" rates, as well as the sharp decline in the real value of total foundation assets, clearly show that new money flowing into the foundation sector is insufficient to offset the rapid decline of existing foundation assets. IV. CONGRESS NEVER INTENDED TO REDUCE FOUNDATION CAPABILITY The experience of foundations throughout the country indicates that the present requirement that foundations distribute annually all of their income is a major factor contributing to this alarming erosion of foundation grant capability. Indeed, foundations are being forced to spend themselves out of existence by their inability to reinvest any of the income they earn in excess of the 5% minimum payout amount. It is absolutely clear that Congress never intended that the payout requirement have this effect. During the decade preceding enactment of the payout requirement in 1969, inflation averaged only 1.9%. �- 9 - Fo u nda t ions Esta bl ishe d/T erm inated, 1968· 1972 . Cumu lativ e of 12 States - - - - - New Foundations Est ab lished 1,300 1.200 1,100 - - - - Existing Foundations Terminated ,, \ \ \ ,, , \ \ 1.000 900 \ , \ \ \ \ , \ 800 700 \ \ \ \ \ \ \ 600 , \, \ \ \ \ 500 \ \ 400 \ \ 300 200 100 '68 \ '69 \ \ \ \ ,-------- ......... -- \ '70 '71 - ........ ' 72 Year F rom "Anal ysis of F ou nd at ion Ce nter Da ta o n Crea tion, Di!<.<olution an d Recl assifIca tion of Prrvare F ounda tions, " Washingto n, D.C. , Oct ober 25. 1974. p rep are d by Cap lin &. Dry sdale and The F ou nda ti on Center in Washington, D.C. �- 10 It is not surprising, therefore, that in formulating the payout rule neither Treasury nor the Congress devoted significant attention to the effect which the required distribution of all current income would have in a highly inflationary environment. The Congressional debate makes it clear, however, that the Congress did not intend the payout rule to require that foundations distribute at so fast a rate as to erode the real value of foundation assets. Senator Percy, the leading sponsor of the minimum payout provision finally adopted, made this clear in the following statement: The percentage should not be so high as to amount to a delayed death sentence. A foundation with a well-managed investment portfolio should be able to maintain its size and to stay abreast of changes in the value of the dollar. However, the current needs of our society for philanthropic funds are so great that I consider it inappropriate to permit foundations to grow, in size, without making an adequate current contribution to philanthropy. A payout percentage which will permit a well-managed foundation portfolio to maintain its size while making a productive contribution to charity, represents an equitable balance between the pressure of society's current needs and the interest of future generations. Congo Rec., Nov. 24, 1969, S.15950 (Emphasis added.) Congress has demonstrated a continuing commitment to reevaluate the payout requirement to preserve this principle of nan equitable balance." For example, in 1976 Congress concluded that the 6% minimum distribution requirement, coupled with the requirement that this minimum distribution percentage be adjusted annually to reflect any increases in prevailing interest rates, "could have damaging effects on the continuing viability of many foundations." In response, �-1 1- C o n g r e s sr e d u c e d . t h er a t et o5% a n de l im i n a t e dt h ep r e v i o u s l y r e q u i r e da n n u a la d j u s tm e n t . I n c r e a s e si ni n f l a t i o nu r g et h en e e df o ra f u r t h e r r e e v a l u a t i o no ft h ep a y o u tr u l e ,f o ru n d e ri n f l a t i o n a r y c o n d i t i o n st h et o t a li n c om ep a y o u tr u l enow m ak e s i t v i r t u a l l yim p o s s i b l ef o r" af o u n d a t i o nw i t h aw e l l -m a n a g e d i n v e s tm e n tp o r t f o l i o . . . t om a i n t a i n i t ss i z ea n ds t a y a b r e a s to fc h a n g e si nt h ev a l u eo ft h ed o l l a r . " C u r r e n t i n f l a t i o nr a t e so f 10% o rmo r e m ak e n e c e s s a r ya r e v i s i o no f t h er u l et oe l im i n a t et h er e q u i r em e n tt h a ta l li n c om eb e p a i do u t . V . THE EFFECT OF THE PAYOUT REQU IREMENT INAN INFLAT IONARY ENV IRONMENT I ti sc l e a rt h a tC o n g r e s sd i dn o ti n t e n db yt h e i n c om ep a y o u tr u l et oim p o s et h e" d e l a y e dd e a t hs e n t e n c e "i t s p e c i f i c a l l yr e n o u n c e di ns e t t i n gt h ep e r c e n t a g ep a y o u t . Wh en C o n g r e s se n a c t e dt h ei n c om ep a y o u tr u l e ,c u r r e n ty i e l d s o na w e l l -m a n a g e d , b a l a n c e dp o r t f o l i ow e r e s i g n i f i c a n t l y b e l ow 5% ;i n f l a t i o nh a da v e r a g e db e tw e e n 2% a n d 3% o v e rt h e p r e c e d i n gd e c a d e ;a n ds t o c k sw e r e g r ow i n gi nv a l u e mu ch mo r e r a p i d l yt h a ni n f l a t i o n . T o d a yi n t e r e s tr a t e so nd e b ts e c u r i t i e s l i k eT r e a s u r yb i l l sa n dc e r t i f i c a t e so fd e p o s i tr a n g ef r om w e l lo v e r 13% t oa lm o s t17% ;i n f l a t i o np e r s i s t sa t10% t o12% ; a n dr e a ls t o c kv a l u e sh a v ed e c l i n e ds h a r p l yo v e rt h el a s td e c a d e . Th ee f f e c to ft h ei n c om ep a y o u tr e q u i r em e n th a sc h a n g e d �- 12 radically as the rate of inflation has risen from the 2% level prevailing in the 1960's to the 10% or higher level of today. This change is attributable to the fact that in a period of high inflation the nominal return on all investments increases. In the case of bonds and other debt securities, this increased nominal return takes the form of higher interest rates. However, only a fraction of this higher nominal return represents real income to the bondholder. The remainder is in fact merely a replacement of that part of the bondholder's capital consumed by inflation. Yet the total income payout rule requires that all this nominal income must be distributed. When examined in this perspective, it is clear that a payout rule that requires foundations during a period of inflation to distribute the entire nominal return on their assets is the practical equivalent of a requirement that they annually distribute a portion of their corpus. The inevitable effect of such a rule is to reduce their future grant capability and, continued over time, to reduce them to virtual incapacity. To the extent that foundations hold securities that reflect current high interest rates such as certificates of deposit, the present requirement that they distribute all current income has precisely this effect. The entire nominal return on such debt investments generally comes in the form of current income. Foundations must distribute the entire nominal return and can do nothing to offset the inflationary erosion of their assets and their future grant capabilities. �- 13 The manner in which rising inflation rates fundamentally alter the effect of the income payout requirement has been clearly demonstrated in a study prepared by the Charles Stewart Mott Foundation of Flint, Michigan. The Mott Foundation analyzed the effect of the current income payout requirement on the performance of a typical foundation portfolio with initial assets of $1,000,000 under conditions of 2% inflation and 10% inflation. For purposes of the analysis it was assumed that the foundation's assets would be invested 60% in common stock and 40% in bonds -- a portfolio mix reflecting the traditional investment strategy of foundations and other endowed charities -- and that the rates of return on these investments would be comparable to historic rates of return over the period from 1926 through 1978. The results of this analysis are presented in the chart on page 14. (Figures supporting the chart are included as Appendix 1). Example I assumes a 2% rate of inflation and depicts the changes in both the purchasing power of the foundation's grants and the real value of the foundation's assets over a 30 year period. This example corresponds roughly to the conditions that prevailed in the period before Congress enacted the 1969 payout re ~rement. Given this low rate of inflation, under present payout rules the real value of the foundation's grants falls by only $3,000 over 30 years -- from $50,000 to $47,000 -- and �EXAMPLE I T\\·o Pe rrcn r Inflation with Current Payout. 51 .0 00.000 1!l ilO If II I 199 0 S 48 .00 0 200 0 ~ ,~ n 1.r ll) l \ ::;')fj:.!.l HIlI :54 7 .0 0 0 20 10 - 14 - , ir ~ tnt Value of the Securities Portfolio" Purchasing Power of Income Distributed" ~ t~ . n 19 HO 19 80 s' ln.ooo ~ ~ (See Table III· Portfolio II) EXAMPLE II Ten Percent Inflation with Current Payout Requirement Value of the Securities Portfolio Purchasing Power of Income Distributed :;;88.0 00 S 1.0 00.000 .% 1.000 :3G90.000 542.0 0 0 D 1~ 19 90 20 0 0 :W lO D $477, 000 529. 0 0 0 1!)90 19 80 (See Table IV· Portfolio I) 20 0 0 D 5:l29.000 2010 EXAMPLE III Ten Percent Inflation with Five Percent Straight Payout Requirement Purchasing Power of Income Distributed Value of the Securities Portfolio S 1.000,000 "' ;iO .OOO 1980 S49.00 0 548.000 1!190 2000 "Porr Iolio Compositi on : fiO'7. stocks. 40'7(. bonds In itial Portfolio: :31 million :598 2 .0 0 0 $%4 .000 S!)4 7 .0 0 0 2000 2010 547.000 2010 1980 (See Table IV· Portfolio II) 1990 �- 15 the real value of the foundation's assets declines from $1,000,000 to $943,000. However, as shown by Example II -- which more nearly corresponds to today's conditions -- this picture changes drastically when the rate of inflation rises to 10%. The purchasing power of the foundation's grants is somewhat higher in the early years of the 30 year period precisely because the foundation is forced by the current income payout rule to distribute part of its corpus. However, because of this erosion of corpus the purchasing power of the foundation's grants falls rapidly. By the end of the 30 year period the real value of these grants is only $29,000. Over the same period, the real value of the foundation'Os assets has fallen from $1,000,000 to $329,000. Finally, Example III shows that the proposed modification of the payout requirement would significantly reduce this erosion of foundation grant capability . in an inflationary economy. Under the proposed payout requirement the foundation would be required to distribute an amount equal to 5% of the value of its investment assets and could use income in excess of 5% to preserve the charitable purchasing power of its grants. Under this rule the foundation would be able largely to offset the effect of continued 10% inflation. Indeed, the purchasing power of the foundation's grants would be only $3,000 less at the end of the 30 year period than at the beginning, having fallen from $50,000 to $47,000. �- 16 I ti sa l s oim p o r t a n tt op o i n to u tt h a ti f , a sw e a l lh o p e ,t h er a t eo fi n f l a t i o nf a l l ss h a r p l yi n c om i n gy e a r s ,t h em o d i f i e dp a y o u tr u l eem b o d i e di nS . 464 w i l lc o n t i n u et oi n s u r et h a tf o u n d a t i o n sm ak e s u b s t a n t i a l c u r r e n td i s t r i b u t i o n st oc h a r i t y . I fi n f l a t i o nf a l l s ,d a t a o nh i s t o r i ci n v e s tm e n tr e t u r n sm ak e s c l e a rt h a tt h en om i n a l r e t u r no nf o u n d a t i o ni n v e s tm e n t sw i l la l s of a l l . F o re x am p l e , i f i n f l a t i o nf a l l sb a c kt o2% p e ry e a r ,t h en om i n a lr e t u r no n t h ef o u n d a t i o n ' si n v e s tm e n t sw i l lf a l lt or o u g h l y6 .5% ,o f w h i c ha p p r o x im a t e l y3 .5% w o u l db ei nt h ef o rmo fc u r r e n t i n c om e . B e c a u s et h ef o u n d a t i o n ' sc u r r e n ti n c om ew o u l db e w e l lb e l ow 5% ,e l im i n a t i o no ft h er e q u i r em e n tt h a tf o u n d a t i o n s d i s t r i b u t ec u r r e n ti n c om ei ne x c e s so f 5% w o u l dh a v ea b s o l u t e l y. no e f f e c to nt h ef o u n d a t i o n ' sr e q u i r e dp a y o u t . Th ef o u n d a t i o n w o u l d s t i l lb er e q u i r e dt od i s t r i b u t e 5% p e ry e a r-p r e c i s e l y t h es am er e s u l tt h a tw o u l do b t a i nu n d e rc u r r e n tl aw . V I . THE INCOME PAYOUT RULE D ISTORTS FOUNDAT ION INVESTMENT DEC IS IONS I ni n f l a t i o n a r yp e r i o d s ,t h e .r e q u i r em e n tt h a t f o u n d a t i o n sp a y o u tt h e i re n t i r ec u r r e n ti n c om eh a sa n o t h e r h a rm f u le f f e c tn o ti n t e n d e dby C o n g r e s s-i t d i s t o r t s f o u n d a t i o ni n v e s tm e n td e c i s i o n sa n de n c o u r a g e sf o u n d a t i o n s t oa b a n d o nt r a d i t i o n a l ,p r u d e n ti n v e s tm e n ts t r a t e g i e si n f a v o ro fmo r e r i s k yi n v e s tm e n t s . Th em e c h a n i sm t h r o u g h w h i c h t h i so c c u r si sq u i t es im p l e . U n d e rc u r r e n tl awa f o u n d a t i o nt h a tw i s h e s t op r e s e r v ei t sf u t u r eg r a n tc a p a b i l i t y h a sa s t r o n gi n c e n t i v et ol im i ti t sc u r r e n ti n c om et oa n �- 17 amount equal to the 5% minimum distribution requirement, and to seek to realize the remainder of its total return in the form of long-term capital appreciation. To accomplish this goal, the foundation must invest a greater portion of its total assets in stocks and other assets offering the possibility of capital appreciation. However, it is well established that the risk associated with such equity investments is significantly greater than that associated with bonds and other debt securities. Indeed, a frequently, cited historical study of investments compares standard indices and concludes that common stock investments have involved risk four times as great as bond investments.* -I Moreover, there are risks in anY"lOng tterm investment strategy which forces foundations toward an unbalanced approach. It is better if foundations are free to adQpt a prudent balanced strategy combining some fixed income investments and some equity investments. Statistical data are not available to suggest the extent to which foundations have adopted such higher risk investment strategies. However, it is known that investment advisors are recommending such strategies to their foundation clients; suggesting, for example, such nontraditional investments as call options, deep discount bonds, commodities, timber holdings and foreign equity investments. It is also clear that the present payout rule provides a strong incentive for foundations to accept this advice. By thus encouraging foundations to assume greater * Ibbotson and Sinquefield, "Stocks, Bonds, Bills, and Inflation (1926-1978)," p. 23. �- 18 risk, the present payout rule is further jeopardizing their future grant capability. Commenting on this dilemma, Professor of Business Administration, J. Peter Williamson of Dartmouth College and the University of Virginia writes, "Long-term bonds, and from time to time short-term instruments, offer high current income coupled with declining real capital value. Common stocks offer significantly lower current income coupled with a reduced likelihood of loss of real capital value. The foundation seeking the greatest chance of maintaining the purchasing power of its investments will be driven to the lowest yielding cornmon stocks, which generally constitute the most risky securities available. The foundation choosing a prudent balance between risk and return has been forced in recent years to accept a higher current income and a substantial deterioration in real capital value. What the distribution requirement in Section 4942 has aone is to create a situation in which the only chance a private foundation has of minimizing capital depreciation is to pursue an extraordinarily high risk investment strategy. Any reasonable balance between risk and return must lead inevitably to erosion of the real value of the portfolio. There is no logic in a distribution rule that forces this choice upon a private foundation. If the purpose of the legislation is to prevent this imbalance between growth and distribution, then the minimum investment return rule alone would serve that purpose without the perverse results of the requirement that current income be distributed," A copy of a recent study by Professor Williamson of the impact of the payout requirement on foundations is attached as Exhibit II. �- 19 W h i l e c o l l e g e s ,u n i v e r s i t i e sa n da l lo t h e rt a x e x em p ti n s t i t u t i o n sc a nt a k ea d v a n t a g eo ft h eh i g hy i e l d s a v a i l a b l eon b o n d sa n do t h e rs im i l a ri n v e s tm e n t st od e f e n d t h e i rc h a r i t a b l ep u r c h a s i n gp ow e ra g a i n s ti n f l a t i o nw h i l e s t i l lm a i n t a i n i n g a na d e q u a t ec u r r e n tc h a r i t a b l ep r o g r am , f o u n d a t i o n sc a n n o t . Th er e q u i r em e n tt h a ta l li n c om eb e d i s t r i b u t e dh a sb r o u g h ta b o u t ,t h e r e f o r e ,a na r t i f i c i a l a n dw h o l l yu n i n t e n d e d-i n v e s tm e n tc o n s t r a i n tw h i c hi s d i s t o r t i n gf o u n d a t i o ni n v e s tm e n td e c i s i o n sa n dw h i c hs h o u l d b ee l im i n a t e d . V I I . EFFECT OF THE PROPOSED PAYOUT RULE ON FOUNDAT ION GRANTS U n d e rt h ep a y o u tr u l eem b o d i e di nS . 464 f o u n d a t i o n sw o u l dc o n t i n u et ob er e q u i r e dt od i s t r i b u t ea n am o u n t e q u a lt o5% o ft h ev a l u eo ft h e i ri n v e s tm e n ta s s e t s . How ev e r , t h e yw o u l d n o tb er e q u i r e dt od i s t r i b u t et h e i re n t i r e c u r r e n ti n c om e . Th e 5% d i s t r i b u t i o nr e q u i r em e n tw o u l d e n s u r et h a tf o u n d a t i o n sc o n t i n u et om ak e s u b s t a n t i a lc u r r e n t d i s t r i b u t i o n st oc h a r i t y . I n d e e d ,h i s t o r i c a l l yt h i s5% d i s t r i b u t i o nr e q u i r em e n te x c e e d st h ea v e r a g er e a li n c om ew h i c h af o u n d a t i o nc o u l dh a v ee a r n e do v e rt h ep a s t 50 y e a r so na b a l a n c e dw e l l -m a n a g e dp o r t f o l i oo fs t o c k sa n db o n d s . P r o f e s s o r W i l l i am s o n ' s r e c e n ts t u d y ,r e f e r r e dt oa b o v e ,i n d i c a t e st h a t o v e rt h ep e r i o df r om1926 t h r o u g h1978 t h er e a lt o t a lr e t u r n ( c o n s i d e r i n gb o t hi n c om ea n dc a p i t a la p p r e c i a t i o n ) on a b a l a n c e d i n v e s tm e n tp o r t f o l i oi n c l u d i n gb o t he q u i t ya n dd e b ti n v e s tm e n t s w a s b e tw e e n4 . 0a n d4 .5% . W h e t h e r m e a s u r e d o v e rt h ep a s t5 4 �- 20 - years, 30 years or 5 years the average real return on a well balanced portfolio has been less than 5%. Thus, a payout requirement of 5% will ensure that foundations distribute to charity the entire real return they can expect from their invested assets -- and probably a little more. The extent to which the proposed payout rate would result in a short-term decline in foundation grants is difficult to predict. Certainly there will be some decline. But the scale of this decline should be seen in perspective. It is clear that certain classes of foundation grants would be unaffected by the change in the payout requirement. Grants by company-sponsored foundations, for example, would be unaffected. These foundations normally hold small endowments and pay grants primarily out of current contributions received from the sponsoring company. There are also substantial amounts distributed by other foundations that are essentially mechanisms for current charitable distributions of individual donations. These will be unaffected. Some endowed independent foundations may well choose to continue to pay amounts somewhat in excess of 5% of the value of their investment assets, either as a matter of program choice or because they are required by their charters to payout all of their income and/or to payout principal amounts, as well. In the aggregate, all independent foundations pay out now about 5.7% of asset value each year. If all independent �- 21 foundation giving was reduced to the 5% minimum investment return -- and, for the reasons stated above, the decline would not be the full amount -- the result would be a decrease in immediate contributions to the philanthropic sector of about one-half percent of total charitable giving, since all foundation grants account for only about 5% of all private giving for charitable purposes. This short-term reduction in distributions is clearly justified as a way of insuring that foundations can continue support in the future. Indeed, as we have noted earlier, the philanthropic sector would over time recoup the immediate reductions as payout increased as a result of foundations preserving their endowment value instead of quickly distributing corpus at VIII. cc~ er te rates. TECHNICAL AND ADMINISTRATIVE AMENDMENTS In addition to its principal provision amending the foundation payout requirement, S. 464 contains three technical amendments which will eliminate unnecessary administrative burdens imposed on foundations by current law. The Council on Foundations strongly supports the enactment of each of these amendments. Exception to Foundation Record-keeping Requirement For Small Grants Current law requires that a foundation making grants to organizations not recognized as public charities comply with detailed record-keeping and reporting require- �- 22 ments. These so-called "expenditure responsibility" require- ments are particularly burdensome for small foundations which often lack the administrative resources to comply with the requirements, and which as a result are simply unable to make many worthwhile grants. Larger foundations also frequently decide to forego small grants to nonpublic charities in order to avoid this burden on their administrative resources. As a result of this requirement, many small-scale but highly beneficial charitable activities cannot attract the foundation support they need to survive. In practical terms, the cost of this requirement must be measured in terms of the summer youth program, the community cleanup, the local drug abuse prevention effort which never happens because of a lack of foundation support. To eliminate this clearly unintended result, s. 464 would amend current law to provide a $10,000 de minimis exception under which a foundation would not be required to comply with the expenditure responsibility requirements if its grants, along with those of all related foundations, to a single grantee did not exceed $10,000 in a given year. This amendment would not in any way affect the substantive rules which require that every foundation grant, large or small, go to support a recognized charitable activity. Nor would it relax the expenditure responsibility requirements for large grants, where they are justified by the large amounts of money involved. Instead, this amendment �- 23 - would merely recognize that the record-keeping and reporting requirements which are appropriate for large grants are counterproductive when applied to small grants. A Workable Definition of "Family Member" The private foundation rules impose severe restrictions on the business relationships which may exist between a foundation and its "disqualified persons," and even inadvertent violations of these restrictions trigger substantial penalty taxes. Under current law, "disqualified persons" with respect to a foundation include substantial contributors to the foundation and all of their lineal descendants, regardless of how many generations separate these descendants from the original contributor. This rule can impose a great administrative burden on private foundations, the magnitude of which increases geometrically with each passing generation. For example, many of the country's largest foundations were established early in this century, and the managers of these foundations must keep track of hundreds of lineal descendants of substantial contributors in order to avoid inadvertent violations of the foundation rules. To eliminate this waste of foundation resources without undermining the effectiveness of the foundation rules, S. 464 would amend the definition of "family members," and thus of "disqualified persons," to include only children and grandchildren, rather than all lineal descendants, of �substantial contributors. 24 In those few cases in which more remote descendants continue to be actively involved in the operation of the foundation, they will still be treated as disqualified persons by virtue of being foundation managers or the children or grandchildren of such managers. Thus the proposed change will create no potential for abuse, and will increase the amount of foundation resources available to support charitable activities. Elimination of Unreasonable Administrative Requirement [TO FOLLOW] �- 25 IX. CONCLUSION Foundations strongly support the basic objective of the payout rule and they believe that the 5% minimum payout requirement should be maintained. In supporting S. 464, foundations seek only the elimination of the requirement that they payout such income as they receive above 5%. The ability of foundations to support vital charitable activities in the future as they have in the past is threatened by the present requirement that foundations distribute their entire current income. Elimination of this requirement would contribute significantly to the preservation of the future grant-making capability .of foundations. We must expect that the needs of the future will be as compelling as are the concerns of today. If we permit foundation endowments to erode, the charitable sector will be unable to calIon foundations as alternatives to government at special times of need. American charity then will have lost much of its flexibility and perhaps, over time, some of its freedom. Congress should enact S. 464 to forestall these consequences, which have resulted from inflation and which were completely unforeseen when the payout provision was enacted in 1969. �r I I APPEND IXI TABLEI TABLEI I To t a lAnnu a l Inv e s tm en tR e tu rn s ( 1 9 2 6-1 9 7 8 ) To t a lAnnu a l Inv e s tm en tR e tu rn s ( 1 9 6 9-1 9 7 8 ) Nom in a l Annu a l R e tu rn C lass (m e an l 8 .9% CommonS to ck s LongT ennCo rp .B ond s 4 .0% S e cu r i ty ennGov t . Bond s LongT U .S .T r e a su ryB i l l s 3 .20 /0 2 .5% Annu a l In f l a t ion (m e an l 2 .5 2 .5 2 .5 2 .5 R e a l Annu a l R e tu rn s (m e an ) 6 .4% 1 .5% 0 .7% 0 .0% = Nom in a l Annu a l R e tu rn C l a s s (m e an ) 3 .2% CommonS to ck s L o n gT ennCo rp .B o n d s 5 .8% ennG o v t .B o n d s L o n gT 5 .1% i l l s U .S .T r e a su ryB 5 .9% S e cu r i ty Annu a l In f l a t ion (m e an ) 6 .7 6 .7 6 .7 6 .7 R e a l Annu a l R e tu rn s (m e an ) · 3 . 5% -0 . 9% -1 . 6% · 0 .8% Sou r c e :S to ck s , Bond s .B i l l s . and In f l a t ion :H i s to r i c a lR e tu rn s (1926 -78 )I bbo t son& Sinqu e f i e ld .1979. TABLEI I I E f f e c to fa2%R a t eo fIn f l a t iono n6 0%S to ck 4 0%Bond Po r t fo l io sw i th ayou t s D i f f e r en t In com eP Th efo l low ingt ab l e si l lu s t r a t e th e e f f e c to fa2%r a t e o f econ s t an tdo l l a rpo r t fo l iov a lu eandth e in f l a t iono nth pu r ch a s ingpow e ro fin com ed ev e lop edf romth r e e6 0% s t o c k ·4 0%bondpo r t fo l io s .Th epo r t fo l io sa r einv e s t ed t op rov id eato t a lr e tu rno f6 . 8% ,w i thth e bond sr e tu rn ing 5%andth es to ck s8%p e ry e a r .Th e 8%r e tu rnf r om s to ck si sd e r iv ed5%f r omc ap i t a lapp r e c i a t ionand3% a shin com e .Inth ef i r s tpo r t fo l io ,th e c a shin com e f r omc r e tu rno f3 . 8%i sl e s sth anth em in imum 5%p ayou t r equ i r em en t .Th e r e fo r e,s om e en c ro a chm en to fth ep o r t f o l i o mu s to c cu randth e e f f e c to fth i sen c ro a chm en ti sshown inPo r t fo l ioI I .Po r t fo l ioIdo e sno tr e f l e c tth i sen c ro a ch m en t . I nth es e condpo r t fo l io,5%o fth ev a lu ei sd i s t r ibu t ed and1 .8%r e inv e s t ed6 0%s to ck s-4 0%bond se a rn inga t th es am er a t e so fr e tu rn ;andi nth e th i rd ,th e r e a lr e tu rn o f4 . 8%i sd i s t r ibu t edand2%i sr e inv e s t ed6 0%s t o c k s · 4 0%bond se a rn inga tth es am er a t e so fr e tu rn . A s sump t ion s : (1 )A l lpo r t fo l io sb eg inw i th$1 ,000 ,000inv e s t ed6 0% i n s to ck st or e tu rn8% ( 6%r e a lr e tu rnand2%in f l a t ion ) and4 0%bond st or e tu rn5%(3%r e a lr e tu rnand2% in f l a t ion ) . PORTFOL IOI A l l In com eD i s t r ibu t edI Yea r 19 80 1990 2000 2010 In com e $ 38 . 000 51 ,069 68 .632 92 .236 Pu r ch a s ingPow e ro f i s t r ibu t ed In com e In com eD D i s t r ibu t ed ( 1 9 8 0Do l l a r s ) S3 8 .000 $ 3 8 .00 0 51 ,069 41 , 8 9 4 68 .632 46 . 1 8 7 92 .236 5 0 .9 21 (1 )Th ec ap i t a lapp r e ci a t ionf romth es to ck so f5%p e ry ea ri sa s sum ed to b er e inv e s t ed :60% b a ck in tos to ck sand 40% in tobond s th e r ebym a in t a in ing th e60%-40% s to ckbondr a t io . PORTFOL IOI I 5%D i s t r ibu t ed ,1 . 8%R e inv e s t ed1 Y e a r 1980 1990 2000 2 01 0 Nom in a l V a lu ein V a lu e 1980Do l l a r s ,000 .000 $1 .000 .000 $1 9 80 .5 64 1 .195 .302 1 .428 .748 9 61 .5 06 1 . 707 .786 94 2 .81 9 In com e $38 .000 45 .421 54 .292 64 .896 Pu r ch a s ingPow e ro f To t a l In com eD i s t r ibu t ed D i s t r ibu t ed (1 980Do l l a r s ) $50 .000 $50 , 0 0 0 59 .765 4 9 . 0 2 8 71 ,437 4 8 . 0 7 5 85 .389 4 7 . 1 4 1 (1 )Th e to t a lr e tu rni s6 .8% f romt h epo r t fo l io in v e s t ed 60% in s to ck sa ta8% r e tu rnt2%in f l a t ion )and40%inbond sa ta5% r e tu rn .O fth eto t a lr e tu rno f6 .8% . 5% i sd i s t r ibu t ed .l e av ing 1 .8% t ob er e inv e s t ed . er a t eo fin f l a t ioni sa s sum edt ob e2%p e ry e a r . (2 )Th ( 3 )T h ed iv id end sf r oms to ck sp rov id eac a shi n c om e a rk e tv a lu eo f3%andth ein t e r e s t y i e ldb a s edo nm f r ombond sp rov id e sac a shin com ey i e ldb a s edo n m a rk e tv a lu eo f5%f o ra nov e r a l lc a shin com ey i e l d to ck s ·4 0%bond s ) . o f3 . 8%( 6 0%s ( 4 ) I t i sa s sum edth a t bond sw i l lp rov id ear e a lr e tu rno f an h i s to r i c a l 3% ,a l thoughth i si ssom ewh a th igh e rth r e tu rn s . V a lu ein Nom in a l V a lu e 1980 Do l l a r s S I ,OOO .OOO $1 ,000 .000 1 ,343 .916 1 .102 .480 1 ,806 .111 1 , 215 .461 2 .427 .263 1 ,340 .021 PORTFOL IOI I I R e a lR e tu rno f4 . 8%D i s t r ibu t ed\2% R e inv e s t ed Y e a r 1980 1990 2000 2010 Nom in a l V a lu ein V a lu e 1980Do l l a r s $1 .000 .000 $1 ,000.000 1 ,218 .994 1 ,000 .000 1 ,485 .947 1 ,000 .000 1 ,811 .362 1 ,000 .000 In com e $38 .000 46 .322 56 .466 68 .832 Pu r ch a s ingPow e ro f To t a l In com eD i s t r ibu t ed D i s t r ibu t ed ( 1 980Do l l a r s ) $48 .000 5 48 . 0 0 0 5 8 .51 2 4 8 . 0 0 0 71 .325 48 . 0 0 0 86 .945 4 8 . 0 0 0 t 1 )Th e po r t fo l io' sr e a lr e tu rni s4 .8% w h i ch i sth eto t a lr e tu rno f 6 .8% m inu s 2% in f l a t ion .O f th et o t a lr e tu rno f6 .8 % .4 .8% i s d i s t r ibu t edl e av ing2% tob er e inv e s t ed . �TABLEIV E f f e c to fa10%R a t eo fIn f l a t ionon60%S to ck - 40%BondPo r t fo l io sw i th ayou t s D i f f e r en t In com eP PORTFOL IOI Th efo l low ingt ab l e s i l lu s t r a t e th e e f f e c to fa10%r a t eo f in f l a t ionon th econ s t an tdo l l a rpo r t fo l iov a lu eandth e pu r ch a s ingpow e ro fin com ed ev e lop edf romth r e e60% s to ck-40%bondpo r t fo l io s .Th epo r t fo l io sa r einv e s t ed to p rov id eato t a lr e tu rno f14 .8% ,w i th th ebond sr e tu rn ing 13%andth es to ck s16%p e ry e a r .Inth e f i r s tpo r t fo l io ,a l l in com ei sd i s t r ibu t ed ;inth es e cond5%o fth ev a lu ei s d i s t r ibu t edand9 .8%r e inv e s t ed60%s to ck s-40%bond s e a rn inga tth es am er a t e so fr e tu rn ;andinth eth i rd .th e r e a lr e tu rno f4 .8%i sd i s t r ibu t edand10%i sr e inv e s t ed 60%s to ck s-40% bond se a rn inga tth e s am er a t e so fr e tu rn . A l l In com eD i s t r ibu t ed1 Y e a r V a lu e in Nom in a l V a lu e 1980Do l l a r s 1980 $ 1 . 0 0 0 . 0 0 0 5 1 . 0 0 0 . 0 0 0 1 9 9 0 690 . 449 1 . 790 . 848 2 0 0 0 3 . 207 .136 476 . 720 2 010 5 .743 .491 329 .151 P u r c h a s i n gPow e ro f In com eD i s t r i b u t e d ( 1 9 8 0D o l lB J 'S ) In com e D i s t r i b u t e d In com e s88 . 0 0 0 S8 8 . 0 0 0 157 .595 2 82 .228 505 .427 1 57 .595 282 .228 505 .427 588 .000 60 .760 4 2 . 9 5 1 28 .965 (1 ) Th ec ap i t a lapp r e c i a t ionf romth es t o c k so f 10% p e ry e a ri s a s sum edto b er e inv e s t ed :60%b a c kin tos to ck sand40% in to bond sth e r ebym a i n t a i n i n g th e60%-40%s to ckbondr a t io . A s sump t ion s : (1 )A l lpo r t fo l io sb eg inw i th$1 .000 ,000inv e s t ed60%in s to ck stor e tu rn16% (6%r e a lr e tu rnand10% in f l a t ion ) and40%inbond stor e tu rn13%(3%r e a lr e tu rnand 10%in f l a t ion ) . PORTFOL IOI I 5%D i s t r ibu t ed ,9 .8%R e inv e s t ed1 (2 )Th er a t eo fin f l a t ioni sa s sum edtob e10%p e ry e a r . Y e lU ' 1980 1 990 2000 2 01 0 (3 )Th ed iv id end sf roms to ck sp rov id eac a shin com e a s edonm a rk e tv a lu eo f6%andth ein t e r e s t y i e ldb f rombond sp rov id e sac a shin com ey i e ldb a s edon m a rk e tv a lu eo f13% fo ranov e r a l lc a shin com e y i e ld to ck s-40%bond s ) . o f8 .8%(60%s Nom in a l V a lu e in V a lu e 1 980Do l l a r s s1 .000 .000 5 1 .000 .000 2 .546 .967 981 .966 6 . 487 . 043 9 64 .258 9 46 . i l 68 1 6 . 522 . 289 In com e . D i s t r ibu t ed $5 0 .000 127 .348 324 .352 826 .114 In com e 8 .0 00 5 8 224 .133 5 70 . 860 1 .453 .961 Pu r ch a s ingPow e ro f In com eD i s t r ibu t ed 1 1 9 8 0Do l l a r s ) $ 5 0 . 0 0 0 4 9 . 0 9 8 I . 4 8 . 2 1 3 4 7 . 3 4 3 (1 )Th e to t a lr e tu rni s 14 .8%fomt h epo r t fo l ioinv e s t ed60%in s to ck sa ta16%r e tu rn110%in f l a t ion ) a n d40%inbond sa : ta13% r e tu rn .O fth eto t a lr e tu rno f14 .8% . 5%i sd i s t r ibu t ed .l e av ing 9 .8%tob er e inv e s t ed . I~ (4 )I t i sa s sum edth a t bond sw i l lp rov id ear e a lr e tu rno f l thoughth i si ssom ewh a th igh e rth anh i s to r i c a l 3% ,a r e tu rn s . I , I PORTFOL IOI I I R e a lR e tu rno f4 .8% D i s t r ibu t ed\ 10% R e inv e s t ed Y e a r 1980 1 990 2000 2 010 V a lu e in Nom in a l V a lu e 1980Do l l a r s $1 .000 .000 5 1 .000 . 000 .000 .000 2 .593 .743 1 6 . 727 . 500 1 . 000 .000 .000 .000 1 7 .449 .402 1 In com e 8 8 .000 2 28 .249 5 92 .020 1 . 535 .547 s In com e D i s t r ibu t ed s48 .000 124 .500 322 .920 8 37 .571 Pu r ch a s ingPow e ro f In com eD i s t r ibu t ed 1 1 9 8 0Do l l a r s ) 5 4 8 . 0 0 0 4 8 . 0 0 0 4 8 . 0 0 0 4 8 . 0 0 0 (1 )Th e po r t fo l io ' sr e a lr e t u r ni s4 .8%wh i ch i sth eto t a lr e t u r no f inu s 10%in f l a t ion .O f th et o t a lr e t u r no f14 .8% .4 .8%i s 14 .8%m d i s t r ibu t edl e av ing10%tob er e inv e s t ed . b �APPENDIX II Inflation and The Foundation Payout Rate J. Peter Williamson In the Tax Reform Act of 1969 Congress for the first time required private foundations to distribute for charitable purposes what was considered to be an appropriate minimum measure of income. Specifically, Section 4942 of the Internal Revenue Code calls for annual distribution of the greater of the foundation's actual current investment income or its "minimum investment return:' Initially, the minimum investment return was set at 6 percent of the yearend market value of investments, with a provision for an annual adjustment to be made by the Treasury, The rate, in fact, was raised as high as 6.5 percent in subsequent years. In an article in the Januaryl February 1976 issue of Foundation News, the author suggested that a distribution rate between 4.5 percent and 5 percent was probably as much as a foundation could afford if (he purchasing power of its distributions was to keep pace with inflation in (he nation's economy. In order to keep up with the higher rate of inflation in activities of the kind generally supported by private foundations, tbe �payout would have to be held at 3 percent to 4 percent a year. Keeping up with inflation is clearly d desirable goal. It means maintaining the purchasing power of distributions and a constant level of programs and social benefits. And it appears from the history of Section 4942 that Congress supports this goal. However, it takes only 14 years for a 5 percent inflation rate to cut the purchasing power of a dollar in half. Seven and a half years will do it at 10 percent inflation. Since the time of that article, Congress has taken a somew hat more realistic view of the relation between inflation and what a portfolio of securities can reasonably be expected to produce, and the minimum investment return has been fixed, effective for 1976 and succeed ing years, at 5 percent. So under present law a private foundation must distribute each year the greater of its actual investment income or 5 percent of the market value of its portfolio. The purpose of this article is to review the reasonableness of this present rule. Ten years have passed since the first payout requirements became law, and five years have passed since preparation of the article referred to above. What the experience of these years suggests is that the conclusions of that article were, if anything, optimistic and that although the concept of a minimum investment return makes sense, the requirement that all current investment income be distributed does not. The range of investments available to private foundations has not changed much for many years. The previous article observed that private foundation assets are mostly investments in common stocks, fixedincome securities, and short-term instruments. It is true that institutional investors in the United States have shown increasing interest in foreign stock markets and in real estate in recent years . Foreign markets, chiefly because of the steady devaluation of the U.S. dollar against some foreign currencies, have proved to be attractive and some foundations have found it worthwhile to expend the time and money necessary to set up a mechanism for maintaining a portfolio of foreign stocks and to work out with foreign governments an exemption from the usual taxes imposed on United States investors. But most foundations, including the smaller ones, are still somewhat reluctant to venture abroad for investment opportunities. Real estate presents a different set of problems. Achieving a reasonably diversified portfolio of real-estate holdings demands either an enormous total portfolio or opportunities to participate in pooled funds holding real estate. Although pooled funds have been available for participation by pension funds for many years now, opportunities for private foundations to invest in realestate pools are still somewhat limited. So foundation portfolios are by and large limited to stocks, bonds, and money market instruments. There appear to be no readily available statistics on the composition of private foundation investment portfolios. But there are available statistics on the composition of the endowment funds of colleges and universities. Each year the Investment Committee of the National Association of College and University Business Officers (N ACUBO) collects information on the endowment funds of NACUBO member institutions, covering at least half of all college and university endowment funds in the nation. The previous article reported that on average these endowment funds were invested 60 percent in common stocks, 30 percent in bonds, and 10 percent in short-term securities. The most recent data available indicate little change. The proportion in common stocks generally falls within 58 percent to 62 percent and the proportion in bonds falls between 25 percent and 30 percent. This allocation of investment assets reflects a generally sensible balance between risk and expected return. History suggests, and most professional investors are inclined to agree, that common stocks are likely to produce greater rates of return than are bonds and short-term instruments. At the same time, there is more uncertainty associated with common stocks than with bonds or money-market instruments. Bonds, while less risky than common stocks, present more uncertainty than do short-term instruments. And the dismal performance of bonds for Foundt";o,, Neu», March I.ipril 1981 19 �Table I 54 Years: 1926 through 1979 Compound At/g. Compound Avg. Annual Ratf oj Return "Real" Annual Rate oj Return Standard Be Poor's Composite ("500) Common Stock Index 9.0% 6.1% long Term High Grade Bonds 3.8 1.1 Treasury Bills 2.7 0 Rate of Inflation (Cons. Price Index) 2.7 many years now has encouraged some shin toward short-term insrru- rate of total return on long-term high-grade corporate bonds was 3.8 menrs. percent, and the rate on Treasury It is impossible to produce a "best" Bills was 2.7 percent. Over the same compromise between risk and return 54 years the average annual rate of and a "best': portfolio for all private inflation, as represented by the Confoundations. But the intuitive com- sumer Price Index, was 2.7 percent. promise that has led colleges and Adjusted for inflation, the "real" anuniversities to an average 60-30-10 nual rate of return on common stocks alltj>cation of their assets is probably was 6.1 percent: the real rate on generally satisfactory (or private bonds was 1.1 percent; and the real foundations. In the absence. then. of rate on Treasury Bills was O. special constraint such as that conTables II and III present the same tained in Section 4942. one might ex- statistics as does Table I, but for more pect a prudently managed private recent periods. Table II covers the 30 foundation to hold an investment years through 1979, approximately portfolio consisting of approximately the period from the adjustment of 60 percent common stocks. 30 per- the economy after World War II up cent bonds and ) 0 percent short-term to the present. Table III covers 10 instruments. years through 1979, approximately Tables in the previous article the period following the stock market summarized some historical rates of boom of the 1950s and '60s. The sigreturn on common stocks. long-term nificant change over time revealed by high-grade corporate bonds, Treas- these tables is, of course, the increase ury Bills, and inflation, taken from in the rate of inflation and the impact the work of Ibbotson and Sinquefield of Inflation on the real rates of return who have for some years now been on investments. tabulating and publishing these rates. If one were to take the 54 years of Table I in this article updates those history represented in Table I as a earlier figures. It shows that for the reasonable guide to future real rates 54 years, 1926-1979, the compound of return, one might conclude that a average annual rate of total return foundation invested entirely in com(dividends plus appreciation) on mon stocks and able to avoid paying common stocks as represented by the commissions and management fees Standard Be POOl'S Composite Index could afford to distribute 6.1 percent was 9 percent. The average annual of market value without impairing %0 Foundation Neu», March 1.4pri11981 the purchasing power of its portfolio and its distributions. An all common stock portfolio is simply far too risky, however, for most foundations. Although there is evidence that some foundations are being pushed towards a heavier emphasis on stocks, because of the difficulty in meeting the payout requirements of Section 4942 and still keeping up with inflation, a prudent balance is probably around 60 percent in common stocks, 30 percent in bonds and 10 percent in Treasury Bills. For this combination, without commission and management costs, the average real annual rate of return was only 4 percent. That is, if Table I is taken as a reasonable representation of the future, a foundation with a 60-30-10 distribution of assets cannot afford to distribute annually more than 4 percent of the value of the portfolio without impairing the purchasing power of its distributions. (For a 70-20-10 combination, somewhat higher risk than 60-30-10, the annual distribution. could have been 4.5 percent.) While Table II suggests a better experience with common stocks, it suggests a worse experience with bonds and, in fact, the average real annual rate of return on a 60-30-10 portfolio over the 30 years would have been only 3.7 percent. So distributions beyond 3.7 percent of market value would have impaired the purchasing power of a foundation's portfolio and its distributions. (The 3.7 percent becomes 4.4 percent for a 70-20-10 portfolio.) Table III, which covers the ten years through 1979, paints a dismal prospect indeed. Without distributing anything at all, a foundation with a 60-30-10 portfolio would have lost 1.3 percent a year in purchasing power. About the most optimistic conclusion one can draw from the three scenarios represented by these tables is that a private foundation with a prudently invested portfolio might be able to distribute 4 percent a ~. .- . �• • I j f year of market value and still hope to higher education, and other activities course, for cornrrusston costs and preserve the purchasing power of its supported by private foundations management fees. Statistics are availdistributions, at least in terms of the that do not offer the opportunities able for the actual performances of Consumer Price Index. This conclu- for productivity improvement that college and university endowment sion is a little less optimistic than that , one finds in the industrial and com- funds, probably a reasonable reprereached in the preceding article, mercial sectors of the economy, is Y2 sentation of how well private founwhich concluded that a 4.5 percent percent to 1 percent above the rate of dation portfolios have done. Unforspending rate offered a fairly good inflation in the Consumer Price In- tunately, there do not appear to be prospect of keeping up with inflation dex. Very recent experience may any comprehensive statistics on the in the economy. However, inflation seem to belie this conclusion. performances of the foundations in the economy generally, as repreThe numbers in the three tables themselves. Over the ten years endsented by the Consumer Price Index, above represent the performances of ing June 30, 1980, the average anis not quite the same as inflation in indexes, rather than the perform- nual total rate of return for 68 college the sons of activities supported by ances of actual portfolios held by and university endowment funds private foundations. There is good foundations or other institutions. (representing about 54.5 billion) was reason to believe that inflation in And they make no allowance, of 7.64 percent. This was about a half percent below the total rate of return on a 60-30-10 index for the same time period. The average real total return for the 68 endowment funds Table II over the decade was -.40 percent, so 30 Years: 1950 through 1979 that even had they spent none of their income over the decade, the Compound ..It/g. Compound Aug. funds would on average have failed "Rtal'" Annual Annual Rate to keep pace with inflation as repreRate of Return of Return sented by the Consumer Price Index. Only 25 of the funds achieved a posi6.6% Standard & Poor's Composite 10.8% tive real total rate of return, and the -1.0 2.9 Long Term High Grade Bonds highest real total return rate was 3.8 percent a year. o 4.0 Treasury Bills For the five years ending June 30, 1980, endowment funds did a little 4.0 Rate of Inflation better compared to the averages. For 93 colleges and university endowment funds representing over 55 billion in assets the average annual rate of total return was 8.1 percent while the corresponding return for a fund invested in the indexes 60-30-10 Table III was a half percent less. For this five10 Years: 1970 through 1979 year period, the average real rate of return was -1.1 percent. Twenty-five Compound Aug, Compound Avg. funds achieved a positive real rate of "Rear' Annual Annual RaIl return and the largest of these was Rate ofRtturn of Return 4.4 percent. Few statistics are available for the Standard & Poor's Composite -1.4% 5.9% performance of endowment funds -1.1 6.2 Long Term High Grade Bonds over very long periods of time. But the 15-year record ending June 30. -1.0 6.3 Treasury Bills 1980 for 33 endowment funds aggregating over $2 billion in assets Rate of Inflation 7.4 shows an average annual real rate of return of -1.5 percent, with only two funds achieving a positive real return Foundt,l;on NtTIJ5, March I :fpri11981 %l �/ s t o c k s ,3 0p e r c en ti nbond s ,and 10 p e r c en ti nT r e a su ryB i l l swou ld h av e T ab l eIV p rodu c eda nav e r ag ein com ey i e ldo f 5 . 5 p e r c e n t p e r y e a r o v e r t h e d e c a d e 10Y e a r s : 1970th rough1979 w i t ha c ap i t a ld ep r e c i a t ion inpu r ch a s ing pow e ro f5 . 8p e r c en t .T h e • ' f v t ' rag e C CompoundAug . om p o u n dA ug .. b e s t ch an c eo fp r e s e rv ing th epu r l "Annua lRa t e I n c om e Annua lRaJ l 'o f "Rea y i t ld Ap t n ' t cw l i 0 1 I o fAP fW t cW l ion ch a s ing pow e ro fa n inv e s tm en t po r t fo l iowou ld h av eb e enfoundin S t and a rd& Poo r ' s commons to ck s .And , ind e ed ,ap r i 5 . 4% 4 . 1% 1 . 6% Compo s i t e a t ion m igh t h av e su c v a t e found c e e d e d i n a t t a i n i n g a p u r c h a s i n g LongT e rmH igh pow e rl o s sb e low5 .4p e r c en tbycon 8 . 6 1 . 8 7 . 9 G r ad e Bond s c en t r a t ing on h igh e rr i sk g row th s t o c k s and g a in ing app r e c i a t ion in 0 0 6 . 3 T r e a su ryB i l l s ex ch ang efo rin com e .B u t th er e su l t 5 . 8 5 . 5 . 4 2 60 -30 -10M i x eg r e eo fr i s kto l e r ab l efo rf ew i sad e r t a in lyin app rop found a t ion sandc ov e rth e1 5y e a r s .T h eh igh e ro fth e b e tw e en3 . 5p e r c en tand4p e r c en t . r i a t ef o r m o s t . So th efound a t ion Th e r ei sa tl e a s t al o g i ct oar e - m tw or a t e sw a s1 . 6p e r c en tp e ry e a r . rud en tm ix tu r e o f a in t a in ing a p Th er e co rd o fa c tu a l endowm en t qu i r ed d i s t r ibu t ion m e a su r ed b ya s t o c k sandbond sw a s cond emn edto in imum inv e s tm en tr e tu rn ,on e e p e r fo rm an c e si nh igh e r edu c a t ion m a rn ingandd i s t r ibu t ingas i z ab l ein a ti s l a ck ingi nth er equ i r em en tth a t com s e em sth ent ocon f i rmacon c lu s ion th eandw a t ch ing r e a lc ap i t a lv a lu e s e r c en tannu a lr e a lr a t eo f th ea c tu a lcu r r en t in com em u s tb e d th a ta5p e c l in e . s th eto t a lr e tu rnp e r i s t r ibu t ed.A r e tu rni smo r e th anon ec a ns en s ib ly d T h ef i v ey e a r s 1975 -1979 h av e fo rm an c eo fbo ths t o c k sand bond s p rov ed-m o r es a t i s f a c to ry ,a s -shownin an t i c ip a t e . I fa5p e r c en tr e a lr a t e 5p e r c en t h a sd e c l in ed i nr e c en ty e a r s ,t oth e T ab l eV ,l a rg e lyb e c au s e th i sf iv e in twh e r e th er e a lto t a lr e tu rnh a s y a f t e ra l low ing fo r th ee f f e c t so f po e a rp e r iodh app en ed 'tob eg ina ta rn ed n eg a t iv e ,c u r r e n t in com e v in f l a t ion i smo r e th anc a nb ee x - tu in ti nth es to ckm a rk e r . e r yl owpo i e l d sh av ea c tu a l lyr i s en .Wh a t h a s ( einv e s t edfund so fp r i - y In l a t e 1974 t h es to ck m a rk e t p e c t edf o rth a t ion s , th en a r equ i r ed h app en ed i sth a t bo th s t o c k s and r e a ch edi t sl ow e s tl e v e li nm any y e a r s , v a t e found sh av eb e en d e c l in ing i nr e a l anda p ayou tr a t ea sh igha s5p e r c en tc a n bond sacon s equ en c eth ef iv ey e a r s ein com et h e yg en e r a t e f a l u ew h i l eth a i rth er e a lc ap i t a l v b eexp e c t edt oimp eendo f1 9 7 4 th roughth e romth o fth e found a t ion s .I ti sn o t un - h a sb e enr i s ing .Tosp endth ef u l li n - endo f1 9 7 9p rodu c eda nav e r ag ein r e a son ab l eth a tCong r e s sshou ldpu t com ef r omapo r t fo l ioh a sb e com ea n com ey i e l do f4 . 7p e r c en t coup l ed som el im i tonth eex t en tt owh i ch a a r ew a yt od i s s ip a t er e a lc ap i - w lmo s tsu a lr a t eo fap i t ha po s i t iv er e a lannu a t ionm a yr e f r a inf rom t p r iv a t efound es am et im e ,how a lv a l u e . p r e c i a t ion . )A t th d i s t r ibu t ion s,r e inv e s t ingin com eand T ab l e IVs h ow sf o rth et e ny e a r s ev rpo r a t ebond so f f e r ed v e ry e r ,co bu i ld ing up th ev a lu eo fi t si n v e s t - 1970 ec ompon en t so fto t a l h -1979 th s t an t i a ld ep r e igh in com eand sub m en t po r t fo l io .I tapp e a r sth a twh a t r e tu rn in com ey i e l d andapp r e c i a - c i a t ioni nr e a lc ap i t a lv a lu e .A sar e adi nm ind i ni t sr equ i r e - t Cong r e s sh t o c k sd e l iv e r ed su ion .Wh i l e commons l t ,a60 -30 -10po r t fo l iowou ld h av e m en t th a tam in imum inv e s tm en tr e - a f4 . 1p e r - p nav e r ag ein com ey i e l do rodu c eda nav e r ag ein com ey i e ldo f tu rnb ed i s t r ibu t ed e a ch y e a r ,w a s c en tov e rth ed e c ad e ,th ec ap i t a lap - 6p e r c en t and r e a ld ep r e c i a t ion in a t ionb eab l et om a in t a in p th a tafound r e c i a t iono f1 . 6p e r c en tay e a rw a s c f2 . 2p e r c en tay e a r . ap i t a lv a lu eo r ch a s ingpow e ro fi t spo r t fo l io no th epu tn e a r lyenought ok e epupw i t h ab l eIVandV d emon s t r a t e ,a A sT andi t sd i s t r ibu t ion sw i th as en s ib l e in sar e su l tth er e a lc ap i - p f l a t ionanda a t iondo e sh av eac e r r iv a t e found tth a ti tn o tb e t inv e s tm en ts t r a t egy .Bu fs to ck sd e c l in ed b y5 . 4 t a lv a l u eo r e edomo fcho i c eamongd i f f e r a i nf a b l etodomu ch mo r e th ank e epp a c e p e r c en tay e a r .Co rpo r a t e bond s en tcu r r en tin com el e v e l s .Long t e rm e r i en c e sugg e s t s p w i t h in f l a t ion .Exp r e s en t ed a n ev en mo r e ex t r em e bond romt im etot im esho r t s ,andf r a th e rs t rong lyth a tth e5p e r c en tr a t e c a s e ,w i t ha nav e r ag ein com ey i e l do f t e rmin s t rum en t s ,o f f e rh ighcu r r en t inS e c t ion4 9 4 2i stooh igh .Ar e a son - 7 . 9p e r c en tanda nav e r ag ed ep r e c i a - in com ecoup l edw i th d e c l in ing r e a l eg iv ingp r iv a t efound a - t epu r ch a s ingpow e ro fc ap i - c a b l er a t e ,on i o ni nth to ck so f f e r ap i t a lv a lu e.Common s t i on saf a i rch an c ea ts imp lym a in t a in - t f8 . 6p e r c en tay e a r .A po r t fo l io s a lo ign i f i c an t ly low e rcu r r en t in com e r ch a s ingpow e r ,p rob ab lyl i e s inv e s t ed60 p e r c en ti n common P l tJ15eTumt o Pag e24 i ngpu Z% Foundn t ion ~.~, Ma r ch /Ap r i l1981 . J ' , " �c ~ A final check on the reasonableness of a minimum distribution rate of 5 Table ·V percent of market value was run for 5 Years: 1975 through 1979 the 30-year period ending with 1979. On the assumption that S1,000 was invested at the end of 1949, 60 pert r ~ Compound Avg. Compound Aug. "Real" Annual Rate Income Annual Rate of cent in common stocks, 30 percent in YiLM of Appreciation Appreciation corporate bonds, and 10 percent in Treasury Bills, with a 5 percent disStandard & Poor's "'[)3ribution rate, the market value of the 4.7% 9.5% Composite 1.3% rtfolio would have held its own ( with inflation in the economy Long Term High through 1973. But from 1974 Grade Bonds -2.6 8.3 -10.0 through 1979, the purchasing power Treasury Bills 6.7 o o would have dropped below that original S1,000, to less than $700 by the 60-30-10 Mix end of 1979. As already noted. keeping up with inflation in the economy coupled with a reduced likelihood of appreciation. So the s pend-all- generally may not be good enough loss of real capital value. The foun- income rule may not be successful. for a private foundation. On the asdation seeking the greatest chance of But the rule is not needed anyway, sumption that inflation in the kinds maintaining the purchasing power of since the "minimum investment re- of activities supported by private its investments will be driven to the turn" distribution rule is sufficient to foundations is 1 percent a year above lowest yielding common stocks, which accomplish the Congressional purarion represented by the Congenerally constitute the most risky se- pose . su er Price Index, the $1,000 incurities available. The foundation ..---------------4....-~stment at the end of 1949 'coupled choosing a prudent balance between with a 5 percent distribution rate risk and return has been forced in rewould have maintained its purchasing power through 1972, with the cent years to accept a high current income and a substantial deterioration real value of the portfolio dropping in real capital value. What the disin 1973 and subsequent years, to a tribution requirement in Section little over $500 at the end of 1979. 4942 has done is to create a situation A belief that investment experience in which the only chance a private through 1972 is a better guide to the foundation has of minimizing capital future than experience since 1972 depreciation is to pursue an extraorwould support a minimum distribudinarily high risk investment tion rate of 5 percent as consistent strategy. Any reasonable balance bewith the expectation that a private tween risk and return must lead infoundation could distribute this evitably to erosion of the real value of amount each year and still expect to the portfolio. hold its own with inflation. But an A distribution rule that forces this 'expectation that the )'ears since 1972 About the Author choice upon a private foundation is are also a guide to what we can ex pect harmful to foundations and to the J. Peter Williamson is professor in the future would suggest that a 5 public they serve. What, then, is the percent distribution rate is too high. of Business Administration at the purpose of the requirement that all In any case, the Congressional purAmos Tuck School of Business income be spent? Presumably assurpose of limiting growth of foundaAdministration at Dartmouth Colance that a foundation will not hoard tions at the expense of current dislege. He is the author of a number its assets, piling up capital while tributions is served best by the "minof books and articles on legal, doing little for the public benefit. But imum investment return" distribufinancial, and taxation subjects and a foundation could, if it were willing tion. The additional requirement that has conducted extensive research to take the risk, invest largely in assets current income be entirely distribuon the financing and the investproducing little income so as to ted is not necessary as we have seen, ments of nonprofit organizations. maximize the likelihood of capital and has only perverse results. fD 24 Foundation NroJJ, March I Apri{ 1981 • � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Russell Mawby Papers Subject The topic of the resource Charities Family foundations--Michigan Philanthropy and society Description An account of the resource The Russell Mawby papers document the life and work of Michigan-born Russell Mawby from 1928 to the present. Mawby was the Chief Executive Officer and Chairman of the W. K. Kellogg Foundation for twenty-five years and is recognized for his work in the area of philanthropy in the United States, Latin America, and Europe. The digital collection includes a selection of field notes, speeches, itineraries, and other materials. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mawby, Russell G. W.K. Kellogg Foundation Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/432">Russell Mawby Papers (JCPA-01). Johnson Center for Philanthropy Archives</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Johnson Center for Philanthropy Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JCPA-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-2012 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/432">Russell Mawby papers, JCPA-01</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JCPA-01_1981-03-30_RMawby_SPE Title A name given to the resource Russell Mawby testimony on Senate bill 464. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mawby, Russell Description An account of the resource Testimony given before the U.S. Senate Committee on Finance for the Legislation and Regulations Committee of the Council on Foundations on S. 464, March 30, 1981. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Subject The topic of the resource Philanthropy and society Family foundations--Michigan W. K. Kellogg Foundation Charities Speeches, addresses, etc. Legislation Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1981-03-30 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4b7b631c511eeb2032248d5f0498f011.pdf 58871506ff384009487f70b9f14c3221 PDF Text Text ,. PEP PER, HAM I L TON 2\, S C H r::: ET Z A TTO R NEYS A T LA W ....A MES .. . MOO R E .JOH N B . HU F" F"~ K ER AON A t 0 M . OI E TRIC H H . L A W R E N CE F-"CX R ICHAR D M . R I I"4D L E.R ALL EN K . H AL P E RI N ER NE ST Q . W I L,SON P E"'i'E R C . W I L Ll AM ~ 12 3 SO UT H B RO AD S TREET / 776 F STREET , N . W . 4 WASH/N GTON , D. C. PHl LAD ELP H IA , F A . 19 10 9 (2 15 ) 545 -1234 20006 S U ITE 40 0 10 SO U 1'H M Ail " ET SC; L; A Rt: . HA R R I S B U R G , PA . 17 10 8 (71 7) 23 3 - e 4 8 3 ( 2 0 2) 46 7-6 5 00 BARB A RA ~ . W A S H S URN DRAFT S. 2475, A BILL TO A11E ND THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE OF 1954 TO r-10DIFY 7 H:G CHARITAB LE DIS TRIBUTION REQUIREME NTS I MP OSED UPON P RIV ATE FOUNDATIONS (TE L ~n NH1U M DI STRIB UTI ON RULE OF SECTION 49 42) Written Statement and Oral Testimony Presented to The Senate Cummitt e e on Finance on Thursday, April 8, 1976 By the Ad Hoc Cor.unittee on Famil y Found ations: The HOITilel Foundat ion The Kellogg Found ation The Kresge Foundation The Lilly Endo~nent, Inc. The Mac lellan Foundation The Pew Memori a l Trust The Jo s eph B. Wh itehea d Foundation PLEASE REPLY TO WASH IN GTON O FFICE �- 15 ( " A staff established to p:::-occss applications for $1,500,000 will be inadequate for $2,100,000; likewise, the expectations of charity built on"a year when $2,100,000 not be met when a lower year follows. lS distributed will One of the frequent challenges to the foundation is to engage in new and innovative activities. This means fuller exploration of the nontraditional applications and probably grant. a longer time between application and At any rate, the fluctuating minimums -- particularly at an unrealistic level -- will obviously be counter-productive to any d esize to get into fields requiring greater attention per application. This serves to prevent foundation managers from being efficient and frustrates the objectives of foundation grants. The final member of our panel presenting testimony is Drc Russell Mawby, Creek. Mi ch i g a n . President of the Kellogg Foundation, Battle �- 16 I amR u s s e l lG . M awby , P r e s i d e n to fTh eK e l l o g g F o u n d a t i o n , ·B a t t l eC r e e k , M i c h i g a n . Ii n t e n dt oi l l u s t r a t ea n ds umm a r i z e t h ec o n c l u s i o n so ft h i sg r o u p . F o rt h i sp u r p o s e , Iw i l lu s e t h ee x p e r i e n c eo ft h eK e l l o g g F o u n d a t i o ns i n c ei t i si l l u s t r a t i v eo ft h eg r o u po ff o u n d a t i o n ss u b s c r i b i n gt ot h i ss t a t em e n t . I t sf o u n d e rr e a l i z e da t o t a lt a xb e n e f i t( i n c om e ,g i f ta n d e s t a t e )o fa p p r o x im a t e l y$ 5 0 0 , 0 0 0o ng i f t sw h i c ht o d a yh a v ea t o t a lf a i rm a r k e t.v a l u eo fa p p r o x im a t e l y$ 5 9 0m i l l i o n . Th e t o t a lo ft h e s ea s s e t sa r em a i n t a i ne do nb e h a l fo ft h eF o u n d a t i o ni nw h a tm ay b es a i dt ob eD IO s e p a rR t ep o r t f o l i o s ,w h i c h Is h a l lr e f e rt oa s "K e l l o g g "a n d "D i v e r s i f i e d .11- KE ' l l o g g c o n .s i s t se n t i r e l yo fK e l l o g g - Comp any s t o c x'1 ,"1t ha v a l ue o f $543 m i l l i o n . D i v e r s i f i e dc o n s i s t so fs t o c k s , _b o n d sa n do t her in ter e s t b e a r i n go b l i g a t i o n sa n dp a sa na p p r o xim a t ev a l u eo f$ 4 8m i llion . K e l l o g gh a sc o n s i s t . e n t l you t .v -p erf 'oxm ed D i v e r s i f i e dw hi . chw as e s t a b l i s h e dt om e a s u r e t h ef r u i t so fd i v e r s i f i c a t i o n . Ap r i n c i pQ lc o n t e n t i o nr e f l e c t e di nt h eP e t e r s o n R ep o r t w a s t h a tt h ep o r t f o l i o so fp r i v a t e o ndt ~ on h a dn o tp r o d u c e d t h er a t eo fr e t u r nwhic hi t v i a st h o u g h tt oha v eb e e nprod uced b ym u t u a l f u n d s . By a n ym e a s u r e o fr e t u r n ,t h eg r o up h a so u t - .p r o d u c e dm u t u a l f u n d sf o r · t h ep e r i o dcovered b yt h eP e t e r s o n �- ~"I - R e p o r ta n dh a sc o n t i n u e dt odo s os i n c e . F o re x am p l e ,I nt h e l a s ts i xy e a r st h eK e l l o g gF o u n d a t i o n ' si n c om e , e ~ o ft h e ' F o u n d a t i o nT r u s t ' sh o l d i n g si nt h eK e l l o g g Comp any , ha sc o n t i n u e d t ob es u b s t a n t i a l l yg r e a t e rt h a ni t w o u l d h a v eb ee n ha di t sn b e e nd e r i v e de n t i r e l y w a s ~ p e r c e n tf o r o~ d i v e r s i f i e d n o~e n e t~ent . r e c e i v e df r omt ~ o~e Th ei n c r e a s e K e l l o g g h o l d i n g s a sc o n p a r e dt oa ni n c r e a s eo f4 . 7p e r c e n to nt h eF o u n d a t i o n ' s d i v e r s i f i e dp o r t f o l i o . I ti so u ro p i n i o nt h a tt h es a l eo f K e l l o g ga n dt h ed i v e r s i f i c a t i o no ff u n d sw o u l d r e s u J ti na g r e a t e rh a n d i c a pt om e e t i n g t h ep a y o u t e e~ ent o ft h eT ax R e fo rm Act ,o f. 1969a n dr e s u l ti na l ow e rr e t u r nt oc h a r i t yo v e r t h ey e a r s . N o to n l yw a s t h eP e t e r s o nR e p o r ti n c o r r e c t p e r f o r m an ce ,b u t ~ p r e@ i s eo fa ~ ~ re g ard t o p a y o u tb e i n gg o o d.fo r c h a r it yi sw ro n c , E 'o re x am p l e ,h a dt h emi .ni . rn um di . . st J i bl l t : i o n r u l eb e e ni ne f f e c t ,a t6 p e r c e n t ,f r om1934 whe nt h eFo n~ t n t h e c o n t a i n e d2 2 1 , 0 0 0s h a r e so o ~ n , f a i rm a r k e t v a l u e .$ 3 / , 5 7 0 , 0 0 0I t h ef o 1 1m ' l i n gw o u l dh a v eo cc u z e de (1 ) F rom S e p t em b e r1 ,1 9 3 4 ,t h r o u g hAug u st 3 1 , 1972 , t h eF o u n d a t i o nm ad e a na c t u a ld i s tL i b u t i o no f$ 2 0 3 , 0 9 2 , 1 9 6a n d i f t h em in imum d i s t r i b u t i o nr u l eh a db e e na p p l i c a b l e ,d i s t r i b u t i o n so f$ 2 4 2 , 7 0 6 , 8 1 1 o~ a ni n c r e a s eo f$ 3 9 , 6 1 4 , 6 1 5 )w o u l d h a v e b e e nm ad e ; (2 ) Th eF o u n d a t i o nw o u l dh a v eh a dt os e l lt h ee q u i v a l e n to f8 , 8 1 3 , 9 2 8s h a r e sw i . t .h.«ma r k et ;v a l u eo f $214 ,8 : :>9 ,495" h u s , 't h eP o u n d a t i o n ' s ' h o l d i n gw o u l d h a v eb e e nr e d u c e dt o . and ,t �-18 am a i k c tv a l u eo f$ 2 2 6 ,OG l , 3 5 5 ; a n d (3 ) Th eh i g h e r~et n t oc h a r i t yo f$ 3 9 , 6 1 4 , 6 1 5 wou ld h a v ec o s t$ 2 1 4 . 8m i l l i o n t h e r e b yr e d u c i n gt h ec u r r e n ts i z e o ft h eP o u n d a t i o n by l~o t 5 0p e r c e n ta n di n1973 t h ed i s t r i b u - t i o nu n d e rt h er e d u c e da s s e t sw ou ld b e$ 1 0 , 0 16 , 2 5 7r a t h e rt h a n $ 1 9 , 5 3 5 , 3 9 9w h i c h i t w i l ld i s t r i b u t e . A f t e rt h r e ey e a r st h e r eh a sb e e nt im et oe x am i n e how s e c t i o n4942 w i l lo p e r a t et ou n d e rD i n eo v e r a l lf o u n d a t i o ng r a n t s a n dt h e r eh a sb e e nt h eo p p o r t u n i t yt of u r t h e re x aM i n et h e t i o n so ft h eP e t e r s o nR e p o r t . s u b s cY i b i n gt ot h i s t te~ent ~ F o rt h i sp u r p o se ,t h ef o u n d a t i o n s h a v eh a ca ni n d e pe n d e n ts t u d y p r e p a r e dby D r . t to rm anB . T u r e . ·Th ef i n d i n g sa n dc o n c l u s i o n : ;o f t h a tr e p o r t ,a sb r i e f l ysu rmnar i . z e di ni t sow nJ cmgu2 . g e ,a . r e: " F i r s t ,a n ym in iEmn d i s t r i b u t i o nr u l ew h i c h i g n o r e st h ef o u n d a t i o n ' s ra te o fr e t u r nw i l l h a v ea h ig h l yd i f f e r e n t i a l ,d isc rim in at o r y a n dp o s s i b l y ~ o in p a c t on f o u n d a t i o n s a n d on t h e i rl o n g t e r nc a p a c i t yt os u p p o r t c h a r i t i e s . S e c o n d ,t h ec o n t e n t i o ntha tt h ei n v e s t s e n t p e r f o rm a n c eo f t~ nd t on i sre la ti v e ly p o o r i sb a s e d on i n a d e q u a t ei n f o rma ti o nan d in a p p r o p r i a t es t a t i s t i c a l~ e e t h er e c o r d s o ff o u n d a t i o n sfo rw h i c hd a t aw a s a v a i l a ble i nt h ep r e p a r a t i o no ft h i sr e p o r tc e r t a i n l y d on o ts u p p o r tt h i s ont~nt on, T h i r d , no s o u nd e v i d e n c e~ d ~ ed t os u p p o r tt h ev i eH t h a tt h ea l l e g e d l yp o o ri n v e s t r : 1 e n t p e r f o rm a n c eo ff o u n c a t i o n si sr e l a t e dt ot h e c o n c e n t r a t i o no ft h e i rin v e s tm e n ta s s e t s . F o u r t h ,i t i sn e i t h e rrea l i s t i cn o rr e as o n a h l et oaSSUD et h a ta m ini . r n umdis c r i buti .o r i r u l ew i l lr e s u l ti n . s i g n i f i c a n ti n c r e a s e si n t h er a t eo fr e t u r non f o u n d a t i o ni n v c s t 7 l e n c s . �• F i n a l l y ,t h e( t h i s )r e p o r t ' c o n c l u d c , , 't ~t t h e t a xs a v i n g sa l l e g e d l yre a l i z e dby t h o s ee s c a b l i s h i n gfou n da c i .on s are, i na l lL ikeL ihood, v e r y sm a l l . F o u n d a t i o nd i s t r i b u t i o n st oc h a r i t y h a v er e p r e s e n t e da s i z e a b l e ~o nt o fb e n e f i t s r e l a t i v et ot h ef o r e g o n er e v e n u e s . " F i n a l l y ,t h eP e t e r s o nR e p o r ta s s um e dt h a tt h ec h a r i t a b l e s e r v i c e sw h i c h af o u n d a t i o nn o r n a l l ys u p p o r t sw i l ln o tr i s ei n ~o t a n yf a s t e rt h a nt h eg e n e r a lr a t eo fi n f l a t i o na n df o rt h a t p u r p o s e ~ed ar a t eo fi n f l a t i o no f2 p e r c e n t . Th eR e p o r t ' s .a s su I ! ' . p t i o ni sw ro r i c, f o ri t c om p l e t e l yd i s r e g a r c 3 . st h ef a c tt h a t t h eo r g a n i z a t i o n ss u p p o r t e db yf o u n d a t i o n sh a v el i t t l e p o s s i b i l i t y o fs im i l a rg a i n si np r o d u c t i v i t y . F rom t h ef o r e g o i n g , tw ot h i n g sa r ea p p a r e n t : On eI t h e u n d e r l y i n sp r e n i s eo ft h e6 p e r c e n tm i .n i . rnum d i s t r i b u t i o nr u l e i sp r e d i c a t e du p o nf a l s eassu rnpt . i .on si a n dt .wo, t h i sr u l emus tb e c h a n g e di fp r i v a t ef o u n d a t i o n sa r et o ont n ~ t ob e pe rm i tL e& t o s e r v et h e i rf u n c t i o ni nt h es u p p o r to fc h a r i t a b l eu n de r t ak i n g s , I ft h i si sn o td o n e ,{ ti sc l e a rt h a tt h ep r i n c i p l e ss e t f o r t hi nt h eP e t e r s o n Re o , ~ a n di n c o r p o r a t e di nS e c t i o n4942 . w i l l im p a i rt h ee f f e c t i v e n e s so fa l lf o u n d a t i o n sa n de l im i n at e m any o ft h emt ot h ed e t r i n e n to fc h a r i t y . T h i sp o s i t i o ni sn o t o n l ys u p p o r t e db yt h eg r o u p s' a c c om p l i s h I : ' .e n t sa n de x p e r i e n c eI h u t b yt h eT u r es tU d yw h i c h i n d i c a t e st h a tp r i v a t ef o u n d a t i o n sc a n g i v eab e t t e rr e t u r np e rd o l l a rt oc h a r i t yt h e nt h eF e d e r a l Goverme nt. N oo n eh a ss u g g e s t e di n c r e a s i n gt h eG o v e r nm e n t ' s T o l ei n ' a d v a n c i n gp h i l a n t h r o p y ,w h i c h i sp r e c i s e l yw h a tw i l lh a p p e n i ft h e6 p e r c e n tr u l eo fS e c t i o n 4942 i sn o tr e v i s e dd ow nw a r d . �. .'~, L~ ~ ~ . ~. " . --- r- __ ~. Ap r i l 1 ~ 1976 .~ , , .~ . . . . . - ,~ . , , . ~~. ' :' , ' : . . ~l . ~ . . . . . . -. .. . _ .7 ' - . ._ _ - _~ }::. ~ " 1~ ~ , ~~ H on .R u sse1 B . Long U n ited S ta t e sS en a t e 2 17 O l dS en a te O ff ice B u i l d i ng t on ,D .C. 20510 W a sh ing ~ . c ", - ."---. - -· · ! ; ; t,.: ~ " j . ~~~~~ ~ ~~ ~~ .~ • • ~ ",,,, , ---- - . - .~ -.- . - ., " . ~ , ~ ~ ~ "" _ _ ~. . .,~ .. . __ r.1>-_ 1 - .~ \ ::-":"," =-,. , . J --;. - ~ .. ~" ~ ': -; D ea rS ena t o r Lo ng : A s on eo fth ep r i v a t efound a t i o n srep r es en t e dinthe A dH oc C omm ittee onF am i ly Found a ti o n s ,w eapp rc i a t ed t h eop p o r tu n i t y o fte s tify ingb e for et h eS en a te C onmittec onF in an c e on A p ri l8 . W e w e r ep l e a sed t h a tyouat t en d ed th e o~t t e e s e s s i o n st h a t d ay wh en s t a t e me n t sreg a rd ingp ri v a t eph i l an t h ro py ~~ d p u b l i c ch a r i tie sw e r ep r e s e n ted. I ff u r t h e rd e ta i led i n f o rm a t i o n ou1db eh e l p f ultoyou and you r Comm i t t e e int h o s ede l i be ra t i o n s, p l e a sele tme know. T h es i tu a ti o n nowcon fron tingp r iv a t efoun d a tion sis ev en mor eu rg e n ti ul i gh to fth r e cen t n o~~ e en t by t h eT r e as u r J tha tt h er a t eimpo s edfo rt h ec u r r e n ty e a rv i l lb e 63 /4 pe r cen t . l { yb e st p e rson a lr eg a rd s . S in ce re ly, . • RGM : l g r .. 1 •.,.1-' . . /P " � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Russell Mawby Papers Subject The topic of the resource Charities Family foundations--Michigan Philanthropy and society Description An account of the resource The Russell Mawby papers document the life and work of Michigan-born Russell Mawby from 1928 to the present. Mawby was the Chief Executive Officer and Chairman of the W. K. Kellogg Foundation for twenty-five years and is recognized for his work in the area of philanthropy in the United States, Latin America, and Europe. The digital collection includes a selection of field notes, speeches, itineraries, and other materials. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mawby, Russell G. W.K. Kellogg Foundation Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/432">Russell Mawby Papers (JCPA-01). Johnson Center for Philanthropy Archives</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Johnson Center for Philanthropy Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JCPA-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-2012 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/432">Russell Mawby papers, JCPA-01</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JCPA-01_1976-04-08_RMawby_SPE Title A name given to the resource Russell Mawby testimony on the bill to amend Internal Revenue Code of 1954 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mawby, Russell Description An account of the resource Testimony given for the W. K. Kellogg Foundation on the effects of modifying the charitable distribution requirements imposed upon private foundations, April 8, 1976. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Subject The topic of the resource Philanthropy and society Family foundations--Michigan W. K. Kellogg Foundation Charities Speeches, addresses, etc. Legislation Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1976-04-08 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/87b2310c7aa1c00e04de9488061500c3.pdf 73f6071ae0992252a6750bb0b54a2ad1 PDF Text Text SENATE F INANCE COMM ITTEE SUBCO~MITTEE ON FOUNDAT ION S T e s t imony by D r . R u s s e l lG . M aw by a tO c tobe r2 ,1 9 7 3Subcom : r . J . itt e eH e a r i n g s SUMMARY OF PERTINENTPO INTS 1 . Th ea n a l y s e sby t h eComm i s s ion on Found a t ion s andP r i va t eP h i lan t h r o p y (Th e P e t e r s o n Co~~ssion) wh i ch l e dt ot h een a c tm en to ft h e6p e rc e n td i s t r i b u t i o nr u l ei nS e c t i o n4 9 4 2o ft h eI n t e r n a lR ev enu e Cod eo f1 9 5 4r e f l e c t e d i n a c c u r a t ei n f o rm a t i o nandm i s r e p r e s e n t a t i o no ft h ea c t u a ls i t u a t i o n . Th ep r i n c i p a lc o n t e n t i o nr e f l e c t e di nt h eP e t e r s o nR epo r t w a s t h a tp o r t f o l i o so fp r i v a t ef o u n d a t i o n sh adn o tp rodu c ed r a t e so fr e t u r n st h o u g h tt oh av eb e en p rodu c edbymu tu a l f u n d s . Th i sc o n c l u s i o nw a sb a s e dupon a on ey e a ra n a l y s i s and w a s e r ron eou si nt e rm so fc o n t i n u i n gp e r fo rm an c e . 2 . Th e 6p e rc e n tpa y o u tr e q u i r em e n tenac tedby a S e n a t eF l o o rAm e ndme n tand l a t e ra c c e p t e dby t h eCon f e r en c e Comm i t t e em and a t e s t h ec o n t i n u i n gi n v a s i o n o fco rpu sby p r i v a t ef o u n d a t i o n s ,an un sound p r a c t i c ei np r u d e n tf i s c a l m an ag em en t . S t u d i e s showt h a tt h e6p e rc e n tp a y o u tr u l er e s u l t si ns h o r t t e rmi n c r e a s e st oc h a r i t yb u tt h a tt h ed im i n u t i o no fa ss e t so f p r i v a t efound a t i o n st om e e t t h ep a y o u tr equ i r em en ti ss o d r a s t i ca st oc au s el o n gt e rmr e d u c t i o n si nt h e i rp h i l a n t h r o p i c d i s t r i b u t i o n sf o rc h a r i t a b l ep u r p o s e s . 3 . Th eP e t e r s o n Comm i s s ion R epo r ta l s oe r r e di na s sum ingt h a ta n n u a li n c r e a s e s i nc o s t si nt h ee d u c a t i o n a landh e a l t hs e c t o r so ft h ee conomy w e r e no d i f f e r e n tt h a ni nt h ee conomy g e n e r a l l y andi t ss t u d i e sw e r eb a s e dupon a p r e sump t ion o fan a n n u a lc o s ti n c r e a s eo f2 p e rc e n t . H igh e re d u c a t i o nandt h eh e a l t hs e c t o r sa r el a b o r i n t e n s i v e s e r v i c ei n d u s t r i e swh e r ei t i sd i f f i c u l tt oa c h i e v ega i n si n p r o d u c t i v i t ye x p e r i e n c e di ngood s -p rodu c ing i n d u s t r i e s . Co s t i n c r e a s e si nt h eh e a l t hande d u c a t i o n a ls e c t o r sg r e a t l yex c e edt h o s ei nt h ee conomy g e n e r a l l y ,t h u sp u t t i n gp r e s s u r e on t h ea b i l i t i e so ff o u n d a t i o n st oc o n t i n u et om a i n t a i nt h e i r r e l a t i v ec o n t r i b u t i o n st os o c i e t y . 4 . Un le s st h e6p e rc e n tm in imum d i s t r i b u t i o nr u l eo fSe c t i o n4 9 4 2i sr e d u c e d t h er u l ew i l lp r o g r e s s i v e l yim p a i rt h ee f f e c t i v e n e s so fa l lf o u n d a t i o n s andev en e l im i n a t em any o f th em ,t ot h ed e t r im en to f so c i e t y . I fp r i v a t eph i l an th ropyi st oc o n t i n u ei t sh i s t o r i cc o n t r i b u t i o nt oAm e r i c an l i f e ,ch ang e si nt h ec u r r e n tl e g i s l a t i o n -i n c l u d i n ga r e d u c t i o nint h ep a y o u tr e q u i r em en ta r en e c e s s a r y . �SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE SUBCOMMITTEE ON FOUNDATIONS Testimony by Dr. Russell G. Mawby at October 2, 1973 Subcommittee Hearings My name is Russell G. Mawby, and I am President of the W. K. Kellogg Foundation in Battle Creek, Michigan. On April 10 of this year the W. K. Kellogg Foundation testified before the Committee on Ways and Means of the U. S. House of Representatives on the subject of the impact of the minimum distribution rule (Section 4942 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954) on Foundations. Much of the brief testimony which I give today will parallel the testimony presented at those hearings. supported by a study entitled If My testimony is also The Impact of the Minimun Distribution Rule on Foundations" by Dr. Norman B. Ture. A copy of that study is submitted along with my testimony for incorporation into the record. Since my testimony is concerned with the minimum distribution rule as enacted by the Tax Reform Act of 1969, my remarks will be restricted to Section 4942 of the Internal Revenue Code. However, I would like it to be known for the record that we share the concern that the 4% excise tax levied under Section 4940 should be eliminated or, in the alternative, reduced to a rate which would equal the audit costs the tax is intended to defray. Similarly, the Kellogg Foundation joins other Foundations con- cerned over the substantial reductions in assets which have been occasioned by forced diversifications of Foundation holdings, both to meet the arbitrary percentage standard of the 4942 payout requirements and to satisfy the divestiture rules of Section 4943. �2 Before briefly setting fo rth the legislative hi s tory concerning sect ion 4942, I would remind you of the r equiremen t s of the provi sion; that is, private foundation s must make annual dis tributions in the amount of the gre ater of either their earned inc ome or a fixe d percent age of the current market value of their investment assets. The rationale behind this concept was to insure th at current distributions are sufficient to justify tax benefits dono rs might have received, and to prevent private foundations from investing in the stock of companies which retain most of their earnings and thereby delay .charitable expenditures commensurate with the value of their assets. avoid this delay of benefit to charity, section In order to 4942 requires private foundations to make annual distributions at a prescribed level, even if an invasion of capital may be necessary. Many find this approach objectionable, not only because it mandates an encroachment on capit al, but also b ecause many private foundations that are currently able to support ma j or charitable programs are able to do so only because their assets have been historically invested to provide a reasonable appreciation in value as well as a fair current return. To illustrate this point, the Kellogg Foundation historically has distributed all of its income. Over the years the Foundation's assets have doubled in val ue every ten years. Most importantly, because of this appreciation. the payout to charity has more than doubled each decade. As I will show lat er, an annual i nvas i on of principal would have made thi s re cor d of ch arit ab l e contributions i mpossible. �3 Iwou ld emph a s i z et h a tp h i l o s o p h i c a l l yI s u p p o r tt h econ c ep to fa m i n im um annu a lc h a r i t a b l ed i s t r i b u t i o n . How ev e rt I amcon c e rn edw i t ht h em e thod o fd e t e rm i n i n g su cha d i s t r i b u t i o na ss e tf o r t hi ns e c t i o n4942 ; andev en i f t h a tm e thod o fd e t e rm i n a t i o nw e r ea c c e p t a b l et t h e6 p e r c e n tr a t es h o u l d b er edu c edb e c au s ei t i sh i s t o r i c a l l yu n r e a s l i t i c . Mov ing nowt ot h el e g i s l a t i v eh i s t o r y ,t h em i n im um d i s t r i b u t i o nr u l eh a s i t so r i g i ni nt h e"1965T r e a su ry R epo r to nP r i v a t e Found a t ion s "s u bm i t t e d t ot h eHou s e Comm i t t e e on W a y s. andM e an s . Th a tr e p o r te spou s edt h et h e o r y t h a tt h e r es h o u l db eac o r r e l a t i o nb e tw e ent h ei i~ t a xb e n e f i tt o f o u n d a t i o ndono r s andt h et im eo ffound a t iong r a n t so rb e n e f i t st oc h a r i t y . How ev e r , i t a l s on o t e dt h a tt h ein com eo fa s s e t sh e l dby found a t ion ss h o u l d b e on a p a r i t yw i t ho t h e rt ax ex emp te n t i t i e ssu cha sc o l l e g e s andu n i v e r s i t i e s . A l s o ,i t s t a t e dt h a tt h er e t e n t i o no fc a p i t a lb y found a t ion si s j u s t i f i a b l e . Th er e p o r tcon c lud edt h a ta r e a s o n a b l ein com ee q u i v a l e n twou ld b ei nt h e r ang eo f3t o31 / 2p e r c e n t . Thu s ,i t i sobv iou st h a tt h er e p o r td i dn o t i n t e n dt or e q u i r efound a t ion st od i s t r i b u t et oc h a r i t ya n amoun tt h a twou ld r e q u i r ed im inu t ion o fco rpu sa ss e c t i o n4 9 4 2c l e a r l yr e q u i r e s . Th ef i r s th i n tt h a tt h em in imum r a t ep r o p o s a la s adop t edi n1969 m igh tb e abov et h e3 -t o31 / 2 p e r c e n tl e v e lapp e a r si nfo rm e rS e c r e t a r yo ft h e T r e a s u r yF ow l e r ' ss t a t em e n tt oCong r e s so nD e c emb e r1 1 , 1968 ,w h e nh eu s ed an ex amp l ewh i ch a s sum eda 5 p e r c e n t in com ee q u i v a l e n t . Th i s ex amp l ew a s a p p a r e n t l yt h eb a s i sf o rt h eComm i t t e eo nW a y s andM e a n s a d o p t i n ga 5 p e r c e n t m in imum p a y o u t . Th eS en a t eF in an c e Comm i t t e ea c c ep t edt h e5 p e r c e n tl e v e l r e comm end edby t h eHou s e comm i t t e e . �4 O nD ecembe r6 , 1969 ,S ena t o rPe r c yin af l o o ram e ndm en t w h i c hw a s pas s e d , r a i s edt h el e v e lf rom5 p er c e n tto 6 pe r c e n t,wh ich w a s ac ce p t e dby th e con f e r e n c e on t h e S en a to r Pe r c yexPl a in edh i s ac t ion w a sb a sedm a in ly o~~i o ~ n ion o fM r. P e te rG .P e te r s o n , Ch a i rm an o ft h eComm i s s ion on F o u n d a t ion s andP r i v a t e Ph ilan th ropy, who s u gg e stedth a t ap r o p e rr a t e o fr e t u r nf o rfoun d a t i o n swou ld a l lows u ch e n t i t i e st op a y o u tb e twe en 6 and 8p e r c e n ta n n u a l l y . Thu s ,t h e6 p e rc e n tp ayou tr equ i r em e n tr e p r e s e n t s a lO a p e r c e n ti n c r e a s ei nt h em in imum i n i t i a l l yp ropo s edbyt h eT r e a s u r y , and ,i na d d i t i o n ,i t i sp r em i s edupon andr e f l e c t st h ei n a c c u r a t ec o n c l u s i o n s o ft h eP e t e r s o nr e p o r t . I ti si n t e r e s t i n gt on o t et h a t ,i ni n t r o d u c i n gh i s f l o o ram endm en t , S e n a t o rP e r cy f u r t h e rst a t e dt h a t ,mo r e im p o r t a n tt h a n t h ep a r t i c u l a rp e r c e n t a g e s ,a r et h ea s sump t ion s on wh i ch t h ep e r c e n t a g e s h o u l db eb a s e d : "Th ep ayou tr equ i r em en ts h o u l db eh i g h enough t or e q u i r e th em( p r i v a t ef o u n d a t i o n s )t oi n v e s tt h e i rfund sp r o d u c t i v e l y . Th ep e r c e n t a g e s h o u l dn o tb es oh i g ha st oamoun tt oa d e l a y e dd e a t hs e n t e n c e . " To i l l u s t r a t eo u r conce rn sw i t ht h ep ayou tp r o v i s i o n , Iw i l lu s et h e e x p e r i e n c eo ft h eK e l logg Found a t ion a sar e p r e s e n t a t i v ec a s e . Ou r foun d e r ,W . K . K e l l o g g ,r e a l i z e da t o t a lt a xb e n e f i t( in com e ,g i f t , and e s t a t e )o fa p p r o x im a t e l y$364 ,000 on g i f t so f$45 m i l l i o n wh i ch h em ad et o andi nb e h a l fo ft h eFound a t ion . F rom t h a t$45 m i l l i o nt h eK e l logg Found a t ion h a sd i s t r i b u t e di ne x c e s so f$272 ~i ion f o rc h a r i t a b l epu rpo s e s andt h e t o t a lf a i rm a rk e t v a l u eo ft h ea s s e t st o d a yi sa p p r o x im a t e l y$576 m i l l i o n . Th e t o t a lo ft h e s ea s s e t sa re m a in ta ined onb e h a l fo ft h eF o u n d a t ion i ntwos e p a r a t e po r t f o l i o s ,wh i ch w er e f e rt oa s" K e l logg " and "D i v e r s i f i e d . " Th eK e l l ogg po r tfo lio c o n s i s t se n t i re l yo f K e l l o gg C o .s t o ckw i t h av a l u eo f$529 m i l l i o n . T he D ive r s i f i e d po r tf o l i ocon s is t so fs toc k s , bo n d s , andot h e ri n t e r e s t b e a r i n g �·. 5 investments and has an approximate value of $47 million. Through the years, Kellogg has consistently outperformed the Diversified portfolio which is used to measure the merits of diversification. A principal contention reflected in the Peterson report was that the portfolios of private foundations had not produced the rate of return thought to have been produced by mutual funds. By any measure of return, the Kellogg Foundation has outproduced mutual funds for the period covered by the Peterson report and has continued to do so since. For example, in the last 7 years the Kellogg Foundation's income, because of holdings in the Kellogg Co., has continued to be substantially greater than it would have been had its income been derived entirely from diversified investments, The increase in income for our 1972 tax year compared to 1966 was 66.5 percent for the Kellogg holding as compared to an increase of 12.8 percent on the foundation's diversified portfolio. It is evident that the sale of Kellogg stock and the di versi fication of funds would result in a lower return to charity over the years. Year Ended August 31 Kellogg Net Income From Kellogg Stock 1967 1968 1969 1970 1971 1972 1973 $11,272,650 12,177,062 14,438,092 14,890,298 17,606,034 17,349,265 18,775,544 %Increase Over 1967 8.0% 28.0 32.0 56.1 53.9 66.5 Diversified Foundation Income From Other Investments $1,852,705 1,954,008 1,834,420 1,831,344 1,711,651 1,941,018 2,090,946 %Increase Over 1967 5.4% (.9) (1.1) (7.6) 4.7 12.8 Not only was the Peterson report incorrect in regard to performance, but its premise that a pegged payout requirement would be good for charity is also wrong. For example, had the minimum distribution rule been in effect �6 at 6 percent from 1934, when the t r us t cons i s t ed of 221,000 shares of Kel l ogg stock, with a then mar ket value of $38 milli on, the foll owing would have occurred: 1. From 1934 through 1972, the trust made an actual distribution of $222 million. Had the minimum di s t rib ut i on rule been applicable, distributions of $259 million ( or an increas e of $37 million) would have been made; 2. To meet that payout requirement, the trust would have had to sell the equivalent of 18 million shares with a market value of $265 million; t he r e f or e , the trust's holding would have been reduced to a market value of $265 million; and thus 3. The short-term higher return to charity of $37 million would have cost $265 million in corpus value, thereby reducing the current size of the trust by 50 percent. Further, for 1973-74, the distribution from the reduced assets would have been only $10 million rather than the $20 million which will in fact be distributed . Wi th 3 years of experience under the 1969 law, there has been time to examine how section 4942 will operate to undermine overall foundation grants, and there has been the opportunity to further examine the assumptions of the Peterson report. For this purpose, seven Foundations* commissioned a s tudy by Dr. Norman B. Ture entit led "The Impact of the Mi ni mum Distribution Rule on Foundations" . This is the s tudy to which I referred in my introductory *The Hormel Foun dat i on , the Kel l og g Foundation, the Kres ge Foundation, the Lilly Foundation, the McClellan Foundation, the Pew Memorial Trust, and the Woodruff Foundat ion . / �7 r em a rk s . T h ef i n d i n g sand c o n c l u s i o n so ft h a ts t u d y ,a sb r i e f l ysumm a r i z ed i ni t sow nl angu ag ea r ea sf o l l ow s : i~s anym i n im um d i s t r i b u t i o nr u l ewh i ch i g n o r e st h ef o u n d a t i o n ' sr a t eo f r e t u r nw i l lh av e ah i g h l yd i f f e r e n t i a l ,d i s c r im i n a t o r yandp o s s i b l y c a p r i c i o u simp a c to n found a t ion sando nt h e i rl o n g t e rmc a p a c i t yt os u p p o r t c h a r i t i e s . S e cond ,t h e(P e t e r s o nComm i s s ion ) c o n t e n t i o nt h a tt h einv e s tm en tp e r fo rm an c e o ff o u n d a t i o n si sr e l a t i v e l ypoo ri sb a s e do ni n a d e q u a t ei n f o rm a t i o nand i n a p p r o p r i a t es t a t i s t i c a lm e a su r e ; t h er e c o r d so ffound a t ion sf o rwh i ch d a t aw a s a v a i l a b l ei nt h ep r e p a r a t i o no ft h i s(Tu r e )r e p o r tc e r t a i n l ydo n o ts u p p o r tt h i sc o n t e n t i o n . T h i r d ,n o soundev id en c ew a s adv an c ed (byt h eP e t e r s o n Comm i s s ion )t os u p p o r t t h ev i ewt h a tt h ea l l e g e d l ypoo ri n v e s tm e n tp e r fo rm an c eo ff o u n d a t i o n si s r e l a t e dt ot h ec o n c e n t r a t i o no ft h e i ri n v e s tm e n ta s s e t s . F o u r t h ,i t i sn e i t h e rr e a l i s t i cn o rr e a s o n a b l et oa s sum et h a ta m i n im um d i s t r i b u t i o nr u l ew i l lr e s u l ti ns i g n i f i c a n ti n c r e a s e si nt h er a t eo f r e t u r no nf o u n d a t i o ni n v e s tm e n t s . F i n a l l y ,t h e(Tu r e )r e p o r tcon c lud e st h a tt h et a xs a v i n g sa l l e g e d l yr e a l i z e d by t h o s ee s t a b l i s h i n gfound a t ion sa r e ,i na l ll i k e l i h o o d ,v e ry sm a l l . Found a t ion d i s t r i b u t i o n st oc h a r i t yh av er e p r e s e n t e da s i z e a b l eamoun to fb e n e f i t s r e l a t i v et ot h efo r egon et a xr e v e n u e s . F i n a l l y ,T h eP e t e r s o nR epo r ta s sum edt h a tt h ec h a r i t a b l es e r v i c e swh i ch af o u n d a t i o nno rm a l ly s u p p o r t sw i l ln o tr i s ei nc o s tany f a s t e rt h a nt h e / �8 general rate of inflation and for that purpose assumed a rate of inflation of 2 percent. The report's assumption is wrong, for it completely disregards the fact that the organizations supported by foundations have little possibility of significant gains in productivity. Let me cite a few quick examples. Higher education is a labor-intensive service sector of the economy in which it is difficult to achieve the gains in productivity that are experienced in goods-producing industries. Educational costs per credit hour consistently rose more rapidly than the consumer price index from 1953-54 to 1966-67. Over the period as a whole, educational costs rose at an annual average rate of 3.5%, as compared with a rate of 1.6% for the consumer price index--a difference of 1.9%.1 The most noticeable feature of the budgets of all institutions of higher education is how fast they have gone up in the years since World War II. Total educational and general expenditures on current account by all institutions of higher education went up from less than $1 billion in 1945-46 to more than $7 billion in 1963-64. Total educational and general expenditures less expenditures on organized research have gone up, on the average, more than 7% a year at all private universities. The direct instructional cost per student over the period 1955-56 works out to an average annual rate of increase of 8.3% for all private universities. 2 1 Source: "The More Effective Use of Resources--An Imperative for Higher Education," A Report and Recommendations by the Carnegie Commission on Higher Education, June 1972, pp. 33-38. 2 Source: "Economic Pressures on the Major Private Universities," vlilliam G. Bowen, Reprinted from "The Economics and Financing of Higher Education in the United States," a Compendium of Papers Submitted to the Joint Economic Committee, Congress of the U.S., Government Printing Office, 1969, pp.399-439. / �9 In the period 1958-71, the average operating budget for medical schools increased from $2,056,000 to $8,475,000, an increase of 412%. The mean salary for basic science faculty and for all ranks of clinical science faculty increased 59% and 66% respectively.3 A major program concern and site of W. K. Kellogg Foundation expenditures has been the hospital field. The Foundation has assisted a wide variety of programs in community hospitals such as in recent support for coronary care units and the improvement of burn patient care facilities and services. The increase of such support by the Foundation has substantially paralleled the general rise of medical care and hospital costs in the United States. Such costs have risen at an annual rate of 11.8% between the years 1950-1970 and the expenses per patient day during the same period rose at an annual rate of 8.6%. 4 In conclusion, from the foregoing these things are apparent: 1. The analysis which led to enactment of the 6% distribution rule reflected inaccurate information and misinterpretation of the actual si tuation. 2. The 6% payout requirement mandates the continuing invasion of corpus by private foundations, an unsound practice in prudent fiscal management. 3 Bradford, Malt and Oates, "The Rising Cost of Local Public Services," National Tax Journal. 4 Source: Hospitals, J.A.H.A. �1 0 3 . Co s ti n c r e a s e si nt h ec h a r i t a b l es e r v i c e ss u p p o r t e dby f o u n d a t i o n s ex c e edt h eg e n e r a li n f l a t i o n a r yr i s e ,t h u sp u t t i n gp r e s s u r e on f o u n d a t i o n a b i l i t yt oc o n t i n u et om a i n t a i nt h e i rr e l a t i v ec o n t r i b u t i o nt os o c i e t y . Un l e s st h e6% m in imum d i s t r i b u t i o nr u l ei sr e d u c e d ,i t i sc l e a rt h a t t h ep r i n c i p l e ss e tf o r t hi nt h eP e t e r s o nR epo r t and i n c o r p o r a t e di nS e c t i o n 4942w i l lp r o g r e s s i v e l yim p a i rt h ee f f e c t i v e n e s so f ev en e l im i n a t e~ n ~ f o u n d a t i o n sand o fth em ,t ot h ed e t r im e n to fs o c i e t y . I f p r i v a t ep h i l a n t h r o p yi st oc o n t i n u ei t sh i s t o r i cc o n t r i b u t i o nt o ~ i n l i f e ,ch ang e si nt h ec u r r e n tl e g i s l a t i o n i n c l u d i n ga r e d u c t i o n i nt h ep ayou tr e q u i r em e n t a r en e c e s s a r y . We u rg ey o u ra d o p t i o no fsu ch m o d i f i c a t i o n s t oi n s u r et h a to u rs o c i e t yw i l lc o n t i n u et ob e n e f i tf romt h e c o n s t r u c t i v ea c t i v i t i e so fp r i v a t ef o u n d a t i o n s . Th ank you . � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Russell Mawby Papers Subject The topic of the resource Charities Family foundations--Michigan Philanthropy and society Description An account of the resource The Russell Mawby papers document the life and work of Michigan-born Russell Mawby from 1928 to the present. Mawby was the Chief Executive Officer and Chairman of the W. K. Kellogg Foundation for twenty-five years and is recognized for his work in the area of philanthropy in the United States, Latin America, and Europe. The digital collection includes a selection of field notes, speeches, itineraries, and other materials. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mawby, Russell G. W.K. Kellogg Foundation Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/432">Russell Mawby Papers (JCPA-01). Johnson Center for Philanthropy Archives</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Johnson Center for Philanthropy Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JCPA-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-2012 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/432">Russell Mawby papers, JCPA-01</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JCPA-01_1973-10-02_RMawby_SPE Title A name given to the resource Russell Mawby testimony on the Internal Revenue Code of 1954. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mawby, Russell Description An account of the resource Testimony given before the Senate Finance Committee Subcommittee on Foundations hearings on the minimum distribution rule (Section 4942 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954), October, 2, 1973. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Subject The topic of the resource Philanthropy and society Family foundations--Michigan Charities W. K. Kellogg Foundation Speeches, addresses, etc. Legislation Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1973-10-02 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f0a2aa261b29cf6c25de1a17120a1aea.pdf 04581bbaee2105c7d37f325cbc893786 PDF Text Text 1< (,...1 ( -rL.J.- ~ ) ~ . ~-. ,~ ~fJL v- 2- - I am Dr. Russell G. Mawby, President of the W. K. Kellogg Foundation of Battle Creek, Michigan and a Co-Trustee of the Kellogg Fotmdation Trust. / /' 2 ~ t&- manager of a foundatrion which actively participated in the legislative developnent of §4943 in 1969, specifically the "grandfather" provisions of §4943 (c) (4) • My reason for requesting the opporttmity to appear is to help insure that private fotmdations are pennitted to retain pre-1969 business holdings. Ten ears ago, on August 8, 1969, a panel representing many of the sane fourrlations which are here today successfully made the sane argurrents to the Finance Conmittee of the United States Senate. I stress the word "successfully" because the result of that corrbined testinony in 1969 was the statutory "grandfathering" of pre-1969 holdings contained in §4943 (c) (4) of the Code -- the statuto regulations would effectively attorney, ril, f r~~ ~ provision which the proposed ~ 1P- <-A! ~ a foundatii.on manager, not an .. ~ " I do ot; tmderstand why, having been adopted by Congress, A the argurrents must be made again. GMe ~} I do appreciate tho opportunity to testify to the wisdom of the Congressional decision in 1969 not to force wholesale· divestitu:te of existing foundation holdings. The W.K. Kellogg Foundation has, over the past 50 years, distributed nore than $500 million to charitable beneficiaries. That $500 million has been possible fran the initial gift of $45 million of Kellogg Company stock to the Foundation Trust of which the Kellogg Foundation is the sole �- 2- b e n e f i c i a r y . Bo th t h eK e l logg Found a t ion andFo tmd a t ionT r u s ta r ep r i v a t e found a t ion sand ,f o rpu rpo s e so f§4943 ,e a chi sa d i s q u a l i f i e dP e r s o nw i t h r e s p e c tt ot h eo t h e r . Tog e th e r ,t h eFound a t ionandFound a t ionT r u s tand d i s q u a l i f i e dp e r s o n stod ayCM I l ~ o ft h eK e l logg c a r p a n y . O ft h a ta r roun t , d i s q u a l i f i e dp e r s o n sw i t hr e s p e c tt o ,t h eFound a t ionandT r u s tCMI l 1 .4% . T en y e a r sago ,t h eFound a t ionandT r u s t andd i s q u a l i f i e dP e r son sh ad<X J I b in ed h o l d i n g so f5 4% . So ,a syous e e ,t h eh o l d i n g so ft h eFound a t ion ,T r u s t and d i s q u a l i f i e dp e r s o n sh av ebeen r edu c edt ocon fo : rmt ot h er equ i . r en en t so ft h e s e condp h a s eo f§4943( c )( 4 )wh i ch began f o rt h eK e l logg Found a t ionand T r u s t onM ay 26 , 1979 . T h er e d u c t i o n si n h o l d i n g so v e rt h ep a s tt e ny e a r sh av ebeen a c co r rp l i sh ed l a r g e l yt h r o u g hd i l u t i o no ft h ei n t e r e s to ft h eFound a t ionandT r u s ta st h e r e s u l to fi s s u a n c e so fa d d i t i o n a ls h a r e so fs t o c kb yt h ec o r p o r a t i o n ,t h u s a v o i d i n gt h en a r k e td i s r u p t i o nwh i ch wou ld h av ea cx : : a rp an i . eda s a l eo ft h e F o tm d a t i o n ' sh o l d i n g si na l i k ea r roun t . F o rex amp l e ,i n Nov e r rb e ro f1978 t h e r ew a s as a l ebyap r i v a t efound a t iono f2% o ft h econp anys t o c kth rougha p r i v a t ep l a c e n e n t . T h er e s u l to ft h i sd i s p o s i t i o nw a s ad e p r e s s i o no ft h em a r k e tp r i c e ,w i t h al o s so fr ro r ethan$ 4 0m i l l i o ni nt h en a r k e tv a l u eo ft h e h o l d i n g so ft h eK e l logg Found a t ionand Found a t ionT r u s t . O fc o u r s e ,t h e r ew a s as im i l a rl o s so finv e s t : r r en tv a l u et oo t h e rs h a r e h o l d e r s . \ . . . . . . . . . . . . ." ,con c e rnf ~~ h a r s handu n j u s t i f i a b l econ s equ en c e s l e dt h e Cong r e s st o" g r a n d f a t h e r "e x i s t i n gh o l d i n g swh en t h e yw r o t et h e1969A c t . I n 1965 ,t h eT r e a s u r yh a df i r s tp ropo s edl im i t sont h ep e rm i t t e dh o l d i n g so fa p r i v a t ef o u n d a t i o ni nab u s i n e s se n t e r p r i s e . Th e s ep r o p o s a l sd i dn o tr e c e i v e �- 3l e g i s l a t i v ea t t e n t i o nu n t i l1969 ,wh en ,a sa p a r to ft h eT ax Re fO Im A c t , t h eHou s ei n c l u d e da p r o v i s i o nwh ich wou ld h av ei n p o s e da 20% l im i tona p r i v a t efound a t ion Is h o . ld i r iq si na b u s i n e s se n t e r p r i s eandr e q u i r e dp r i v a t e f o u n d a t i o n sh av ingh o l d i n g si ne x c e s so f20% t or edu c et h o s eh o l d i n g s; t ;o A w i t h i nf i v ey e a r s . Con c e rn ed o v e rt h ei r rp a c to fther a p i dd i v e s t i t u r em and a t ed byt h eHou s e - p a s s e dp r o v i s i o nont h ev a l u eo ft h eh o l d i n g so fthefound a t ionands t o c k h o l d e r si ng e n e r a l ,t h ea f f e c t e df o u n d a t i o n sapp e a r e da saP a n e lb e f o r et h e S en a t eF in an c eC a rm i t t e e . , e t ' " " " e s s e n t l 1 t l l : ~re . J ~ ( 2 ) e £ o we r ecx : :x rp l e t e lyi n c o n s i s t e n t eHou s ew en tf u r t h e r r~ e twh a th adc an et ob e n e c e s s a r yi nane f f o r t a sa it u a t i o nsu s c ep. L e p i r i ta sw e1 a st h eI t t e r o ft h er aw ; and (4) es i l l wau l L i t h edono rt or e s u l ti n theph i .L an thn f o r c e ds a l eo fab u s i n e s sw i t h <pn s equ en . ta d v e r s i t yf o rt h ec em p / T h i t s e r rp loyees - - re ,~-------- con c e rn so v e rt h eHou s ev e r s i o no f' t h e 1969A c ta r et h es an econ c e rn s wh ich e x i s tw i t hr e s p e c ttoy o u rp ropo s edr~ . ~~e requirenentfor The S e n a t eF in an c eC a rm i t t e ea g r e e d r d d i v e s t i t u r eo fp r e l 9 6 9h o l d i n g s , and ,i n s t e a d ,impo s edd i f f e r e n tl im i t son su chh o l d i n g s . Und e r theS e n a t eb i l l ,a f o u n d a t i o nc o u l dr e t a i na l lo fi t s I. I �- 4p r e -1969h o l d i n g st oam a . x im um o f5 0% . W h e r et h ee x i s t i n gh o l d i n g s ex c e ed ed5 0% ,t h efound a t ionw a sp e n n i t t e d1 0· y e a r st om e e tt h e50% l e v e l . Th e Con f e r en c ec a rm i . t t e ea c c e p t e dt h eS en a t e app ro a ch ;h cM ev e r ,t h e 50% l e v e lo fp e n n i t t e dh o l d i n g sw a sr edu c edt oanu l t im a t e3 5% ,b u tana d d i t i o n a l1 5y e a r s( t o1994 )w a sp r o v i d e df o rt h a tr e d u c t i o n . Th er e s u l to ft h ep a n e l ' s· t e st i n o n yi n1969w a s ,t h e r e f o r e ,a s t a t u t e wh ich r e j e c t e dm and a to ry du r rp ingo fap r i v a t ef o u n d a t i o n ' ss t o c kont h e m a rk e t , C ! c t ion_W l l l c h :'WO u l dh av er e d u ce dt l ' i ' ev a l u eo ft h er em a in in gs h a r e s h e l dby t h ep r i v a t efoun d a t i o na sw e l la st h a to fa l i :o t h e rs h a r e h o l d e r s . Cong r e s s ag r e edt h a tf i v ey e a rd i v e s t i t u r ew a s toog r e a t n g r e s sn o ton l y .r e j e c t e d r e g u l a t i on sp ropo s e,b u tp e n n i t t e dap r i v a t efound a t i o nt or e t a i np r e -1969h o l d i n g sf o r e v e rt oar n a x im Jmo f3 5% . An e x amp l eo ft h ew i sO a no ft h a td e c i s i o ni sr e f l e c t e di nt h ei n c r e a s e i nv a l u eande a r n i n g so fo u rF o u n d a t i o n ' sh o l d i n g si nt h eK e l logg C anp any o v e rt h ep a s t1 0y e a r sa sca rpa redt oa ni n v e s t I r e n ti nad i v e r s i f i e dp o r t f o l i o . H a dt h eFound a t ionbeen f o r c e dt od i v e s to fi t s K e l logg C c x n p a n yh o l d i n g si n 1969 and v ei n v e s t e di na.p o r t f o l i or e p r e s e n t a t i v eo ft h eDow J on e s I n d u s t r i a lAv e r ag e ,f o re · $ 10 $ i n go n l y$90 .9 6 "~e byre~ ° ve~ e , t h e ~ ) ~ e rana i n - K e l iogg s t o c k ,f o rev e ry$ 1 0 0t h e h a s $124.7 wo rk ing f o rc h a r i t a b l ep u r p o s e s . A d d i t i o n a l l y ,t h ed i v i d e n d s onK e l logg C a rp any s t o c kh av ec o n s i s t e n t l yex c e ed edt h em a rk e t av e r ag e . F u r t h e r , thec o s to fa dm i n i s t e r i n gt h ep o r t f o l i oh a sbeen s u b s t a n t i a l l yl e s s thanYK ) u l dh av ebeen r e q u i r e dt om an ag e ad i v e r s i f i e dp o r t f o l i oo ft h eSa I IE -~ �- 5· . ,~ . ~ e r e f o r e ,t e tm v e s tm e n tr e t u r n• . . . . . a r roun t . Th h en J .. h a sb e e nf a rg r e a t e rthani £ d i v e r s i f i c a t i o nh adb e e nf o r c e d . Thu s , youc a ns e et b a tt h ep ropo s edr e g u l a t i o n sa r ec o n t r a r yt ot h e w i sd an o ft h eCong r e s s ion a ld e c i s i o ni n1969 . T h ep r o p o s a l sc o u l dr e q u i r e t h eF ound a t ionandFound a t ionT r u s tt od i s p o s eo f$ 4 0 0m i l l i o no fs t o c kw i t h i n 9 0d ay so fc o r p o r a t ea c t i o nt a k e nbyt h eK e l logg C anp any i nt h eno rn a l .c o u r s e o fi t s b u s i n e s s . A sa c o r p o r a t ed i r e c t o r ,w h e nc o n f r o n t e dw i t h ac o r p o r a t ea c q u i s i t i o n wh i ch v .D u l db ei nt h eb u s i n e s si n t e r e s to ft h ec anp any ,you rp ropo s edr e g u l a t i o n sv .D u l df o r c er o et ochoo s eb e tw e env o t i n ga g a i n s tt h er e o r g a n i z a t i o nw it h o u tr e g a r df o rt h ec o r p o r a t eb u s i n e s sanda l lo t h e rs h a r e h o l d e r s ,o rv o t i n g f o rt h ez e c rq an i . a a tdonand f o r c i n gt h ed i s p o s i t i o no f$400m i l l i o no ft h e F o u n d a t i o n ' si n v e s b r e n ta td i s t r e s sp r i c e s ,t h e r e b ye r o d i n gt h ev a l u eo ft h e F o u n d a t i o n ' s inv e s tm en tand t b a to ft lx>u s and so fo t h e rs h a r e h o l d e r sa sw e l l . A sa found a t ionm an ag e r and I b e l i e v eI speak f o ra l lfound a t ionm an ag e r s w h oa r ea f f e c t e dby t h e s ep ropo s edr e g u l a t i o n s Iwou ld n ev e ra t t a r p tt o m an ag et h ec anp anyf o rt h eb e n e f i to ft h eF ound a t ion ,o t h e rt b a nt oe x e r c i s e t h a tf i d u c i a r yo b l i g a t i o nwh i ch I ONe t h eF ound a t iont op r o t e c tandp r e s e r v e t h ev a l u eo fi t s I r rv e s tm en t . , A s ac o r p o r a t ed i r e c t o r ,Ih av et b a ts am e r e s p o n s i b i l i t yto ~ ~ re .. er Q J / t tbe te. o qX5 r -a t :± . \ How ev e r , you rp ropo s edr e g u l a t i o n s\>O . l l da t t a r p tt of o r c en et oa c t . I ~• r r r e s p o n sw y ,. t r f a n n i n gt h eF ound a t ion i n t oana g e n to ft h eT r e a su ry t o /1. e n f o r c es e l e c t i v er e s t r i c t i o n sonc o r p o r a t eb u s i n e s st r a n s a c t i o n s ' and\ \Qu ld s u p p l a n tt h einv e s tm en tn o t i o n so fT r e a su ry f o rt h o s eo ft h ef ound a t ionm an ag e r . �- 6Cong r e s sw a s awa r ei n1969 t h a ti t l a c k e dt h ee x p e r t i s et os e cond -gu e s st h e p a s tinv e s tm en t so ff o u n d a t i o nm an ag e r s andw i s e l y cho s et o" g r a n d f a t h e r " . . t h o s ee x i s t i n gh o l d i n g s . Th a t Cong r e s s ion a lw i sd an h a sb e e nr a t i f i e dby. t e ny e a r so fexp e r a en c e e t eny e a r so fp rov eni n v e s tm e n tp e r f o n n a n c e t e ny e a r s w it i x " J u tanex anp l eo fabu s e. ~ . ; amaw a r eo fnofound a t iont h a ta t . ~s i n c e1969h a si n c r e a s e d » : 'J i t s h o l d i n g si na b u s i n e s sen .r i s ei n ,wh i chi t owns a ( c )( 4 ) / i n t e r e s t . ~thatofthe P a r t i c u l a r l ywh e r et h ev a l u eo ft h e ...i n e s tm e n ti sa sg r e a t .... e ~Crnpany, i will be~ t od i s p o s e o ftheex c e s sO l l e r 35% ~ statutoryrateof1% ryearwithout having ap ro long eqadv e r s e. : j r o p a c tonthem a rk e tv ~f thes --anIrrpac Which K e l logg Found a t ion i nt h e byk a d v e r s e l y a f f e c t h :a r roun tr e a l i z e d / . Found a t iona s o ft h einv e s : t : t r en to fo t h e s h a r e h o l d • I t v . u u l d b ef a a ~ J r~ ~ reductions a foundn on ,w h e nf a c e d b a ti n p a c tby s h a r e . On o t h e rh and ,t h e w i s e r co e i st o u t i l i zo p p o r t u n i t i e sm a d e av a i 'a b l ebyc o r p o r a t ee x p a n s i ~ Foundation t ocoup l ed i l u t i o no f I S. i n t e r ef ' w i t ha c t l l : : ;-d i s p o s i t iO n . Th ep ropo s edr e g u l a t i o n swou ld e l im i n a t et h a tr e a s o n a b l eando r d e r l y r o e t h c d ' - f o rc a r r y i n go u tt h ei n t e n t _o f_ t h e _ s t a t u t e . . F i n a l l y , you rp ropo s edr e g u l a t i o n s wou ld i nf a c tr ew a rdabu s e . K e l l 0 J 9 Found a t ionwou ld b er e q u i r e dt od i s p o s eo f$ 4 0 0m i l l i o no fs t o c k b e c au s et h eF ound a t ionc o u l dn o tandwou ld n o te x e r c i s ec o n t r o lt op r e v e n t anaCX jU i s i t iono rn e r g e rt h a twas i nt h eb u s i n e s si n t e r e s to ft h eC c r n p a n y andi t s s h a r e h o l d e r s . On t h eo t h e rh a r r l ,i f a found a t iond i dc o n t r o la ' I t I �- 7b u s i n e s se n t e r p r i s es o l e l yf o rt h eFounda t .Lonvs b e n e f i t ,i t c o u l ds u r v i v e und e ryou rp r o p o s a l sandr e t a i ni t s s t a t u t o : r yr i g h t , Cong r e s sd i dn o t i n t e n dn o rw i l li t s a n c t i o nsu cha p e r v e r s er e s u l t . Th eT ax R e fonn A c to f1969 c o n t a i n e da c c r rp r eh en s . i v ep a ck ag eo fp r i v a t e found a t . ionr e f o n n s ,o fwh i ch·§4943 i s o n l yon e . T h ec o s to fc c rop l .L an c ehas b e enc o n s i d e r a b l e . Th eK e l logg Found a t ionandFound a t ionT r u s thas exp end ed a1 : r ro s t$ 1 0m i l l i o nd u r i n gthep a s t10y e a r si ne x c i s et a x e sandf o rc r n p l i a n c e , - 5Q -y e a r s dea . ; f-~ Th e -K e l log g - ~ .~ - rr - - ~. -.~ w i t ht h e~ f the1969A c t -I i e f e a l r ro s t ;2 0y e a r sp r i o r· t ot h e ~e- r. ~~ e. sedregu la t ions(, a , ~~ A f te r ; th0 t1gh t . : fu lo n s i ~) i n t ot h esoundm an aq em en t ;o fp h i l a n t h r o p i cr e s o u r c e s .~ A . h t , i . . .\ ' l l . / ~ 4 s t a t u t ei s t obe r e p e a l e d ,i t shou ldbe z ep e a l . ed b yCong r e s s ,n o tbyr . e g u l a t i o n . I ~ intrusion:5 .n . r : : - cf2.<> -~~- ~~ tk - ~- . . -- -~. / \ v- ~~e en a c t e d§4943c )( 4 )t o" g r a n d f a t h e r "t h ep r e l 9 6 9h o l d i n g so f p r i v a t ef o u n d a t i o n s , I f \ wh i ch W ) Founda t ionhad i . r rp l e r c en t ed � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Russell Mawby Papers Subject The topic of the resource Charities Family foundations--Michigan Philanthropy and society Description An account of the resource The Russell Mawby papers document the life and work of Michigan-born Russell Mawby from 1928 to the present. Mawby was the Chief Executive Officer and Chairman of the W. K. Kellogg Foundation for twenty-five years and is recognized for his work in the area of philanthropy in the United States, Latin America, and Europe. The digital collection includes a selection of field notes, speeches, itineraries, and other materials. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mawby, Russell G. W.K. Kellogg Foundation Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/432">Russell Mawby Papers (JCPA-01). Johnson Center for Philanthropy Archives</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Johnson Center for Philanthropy Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JCPA-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-2012 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/432">Russell Mawby papers, JCPA-01</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JCPA-01_1979-09-06_RMawby_SPE Title A name given to the resource Russell Mawby testimony on the proposed regulations on private foundations, Excess Business Holdings of Private Foundations Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mawby, Russell Description An account of the resource Testimony given before the Internal Revenue Service for the W. K. Kellogg Foundation concerning the proposed regulations on private foundations, 1979. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Subject The topic of the resource Philanthropy and society Family foundations--Michigan Charities Speeches, addresses, etc. Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1979-09-06 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/429a098549d9ceb5af40d5923b0c1973.pdf f9a1060d2a0ed993b73c9f216483164f PDF Text Text 1 Grand Valley State University Special Collections Kent County Oral History collections, RHC-23 Mr. and Mrs. Francis T. Russell Interviewed on October 4, 1971 Edited and indexed by Don Bryant, 2010 – bryant@wellswooster.com Tape # 30, 31 (1:21:28) Biographical Information Francis Thayer Russell was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on 21 June 1892, the son of Huntley Russell and Clara E. Comstock. Huntley Russell was born on 1 September 1858 at New Britain, Connecticut and died in Grand Rapids on 9 December 1928. Huntley was buried in Fulton Street Cemetery. Clara Eglatine Comstock was born in Grand Rapids in April 1866, the daughter of Charles C. Comstock and Cornelia Guild. She died on 18 June 1935 and was buried in Fulton Street Cemetery. Huntley and Clara were married in Grand Rapids on the 1st of September, 1884. Mrs. Russell was born Lucille I. Hopson on 25 May 1894 in Grand Rapids, the daughter of William C. Hopson and Frankie M. Hydorn. Lucille died on 19 October 1973 and was buried in Woodlawn Cemetery in Grand Rapids. Her parents were married in Grand Rapids on 19 September 1889. William died in Grand Rapids on 9 March 1948 at the age of 91 and Frankie passed away in Grand Rapids on 18 November 1958 at the age of 96. ___________ Interviewer: This interview with Mr. and Mrs. Francis T. Russell was recorded October fourth, nineteen seventy-one. Ok. Go ahead; what were you going to say? Mr. Russell: I was going to start to remember, to begin with, give my location at birth at recorded in North Park Avenue and Terrace Walk, which, of course now Terrace Walk is eliminated but North Park Avenue is still up there. The house which I was born in was torn down and, turned into stores. But this is a rather unique location in that it was just across the street from the Amusement Pavilion that my grandfather had built in the eighties sometime, along the river bank for the amusement of people that might drive out from downtown, from the heart of Grand Rapids or else come out on the, this dummy line that in the early days or the streetcar later on. But the Pavilion was provided with quite a fleet of row-boats that could be rented and rowed up and down the river and in the early days he had this side wheeler steamer that took a group up to as far as the Plainfield Farm which was Grand Island. At present Grand Island’s about in front of the Blythefield Club and this Farm was up in that general locality of the Blythefield Club. But the, this Pavilion was a fairly good size and had a very large dance hall, had three storied, for one of the attractions, there was a switch-back that ran from the Pavilion itself to another building �2 perhaps oh, 150 yards away. And you’d get in this car and ride along as you would in a figure eight or a jack rabbit or something like that over to this building and then you switched back and then come back to the Pavilion again. Which was supposed to be quite thrilling at that time, I think it was because it had some pretty good dips in it, although they weren’t loop-the-loops or anything like that, but just a thrilling affair for grown-ups and youngsters at that time. But later on, after this switch-back was given up, several years later the Grand Rapids Boat and Canoe Club was established in the building just south of the Pavilion; which used to house the sidewheeler, the steamer that ran up and down the river. And the steamer went over great, so the Grand Rapids Boat and Canoe Club was formed and was very active in canoeing and shell racing and used to take some their best crew members out to Peoria and one place or another where they’d have some racing contests in the shells. Afterwards, the Boat and Canoe Club built north of this location. North of the bridge and where the present, let’s see, I think the American Legion is in there now, isn’t it. They used to be the last…… Interviewer: Who was? Who was your grandfather? Mr. Russell: C.C. Comstock and he came in eighteen fifty-three, moving out from New Hampshire. His father had been a farmer and sort of a half hearted carpenter, but he was never a very productive along the farming lines and as I gathered, the soil was not too productive, in that locality in which helped to encourage my grandfather at an early age to strike out west, which he did and looked this territory over, some almost the age of between eighteen and twenty and eventually moved out here and established himself in the lumbering business. At that time there was very little rail communication here. He originally arrived by a steamer through Chicago, then through Grand Haven and up the river. And then in his memoirs was one of the events coming up the river he tells about on the boat, when it blew up, the boiler blew up at Grandville and he was blown into the water. The helmsman was killed, but the other passengers seemed to survive alright and get ashore and he walked from there up to just south of the Soldier’s Home where he lived at that time. He had built out in the country there at rather an early age, or not an early age, early in his lifetime and his home was on Boltwood Drive, which was built in eighteen ninety, at that time. But this isn’t that I referred to when he was blown off the steamer he was residing on Ottawa Street. That was so it wasn’t quite the walk as it might have been if he’d been in the later house. He was interested in lumbering and later on building factory for the manufacture of pails and tubs on the corner of Newberry, now Sixth Street and Monroe; used to be Canal Street at that time. And that building is still standing on the northeast corner and his old office building right across the street on the northwest corner is still standing at this time. He was at one time, Comstock, Nelson and Matter in the manufacture of furniture and there was a great deal of difficulty in transporting at that time and getting the finished product out into the territories to be saleable. And it was eventually developed that he built some of his own railcars, his own freight cars, to transport the furniture out of town. That was later on of course when the GR & I, and some other roads developed into Grand Rapids. �3 Interviewer: He built his own freight cars, for what reason weren’t the railroads? Mr. Russell: Well, the railroads weren’t equipped to apparently meet the requirements that he thought should be necessary to take care of the product. And I don’t think that developed very widely but I can gather in his memoirs that there probably weren’t more than three or four cars that were built for that purpose. But his first interest in transportation apparently on his own hook was building a dummy line from Sweet Street up to North Park, where he had the entertainment enterprise. And this dummy ran fairly regular intervals between North Park and Sweet Street, which was the limit of the streetcar line at that time- went as far as Sweet and then back downtown. Then at that point they’d transfer to the dummy further north. And the later on as time developed, the dummy line was absorbed by the streetcar, Grand Rapids Street Railway, and electric cars were run on out there. But … Interviewer: How, how was his street car run? Did he run on electricity, too? Mr. Russell: Oh no, no this was before that, this was a steam dummy. It would carry a little tender behind it and a passenger car and in the summer, the open passenger car, in the winter it was closed. I think they had about, five cars was total equipment. But it afforded transportation for a number of years and by getting the people out to his amusement resort and bathing beach, which was also established out there on the west side of the river and they’d row across from the Pavilion, go over there and go in swimming where there was a sand bar and a sand beach and eventually that wore itself out. The swimming feature was given up and then it turned into just farmland over there…. Interviewer: The river was pretty clean then in those days for swimmers? Mr. Russell: Well yes, it was. I was always taught at that time that the river purified itself every ten miles. That, whatever happened to it, after flowing over the gravel and sand beds that it would be purified after ten miles of operation., We never thought of pollution at that time, nothing of that sort. You couldn’t say it was as clear as Lake Michigan, but it was a much clearer than we’ve been used to seeing it lately. I remember that the, the row boats, in front of the Pavilion were attached to a series of booms that were floating in the river and these booms could of course could, rise and fall with the variation of the river. And there was a tendency I recall a moss gathering on the booms so it showed some pollution at that time. But, you’d get out of those booms and then of course you couldn’t get too many of them [people] or they’d sink. You’d have to go down, just a few at a time to get in the rowboats and then, then row wherever you wanted to. Interviewer: Did you ever go out to the amusement park, when you were a child Mrs. Russell? Mr. Russell: North Park Pavilion? �4 Mrs. Russell: I think I was out there to Sunday School Picnics. I think we used to have Sunday School Picnics…I don’t remember quite so much. Well I remember all about its being there but I’m afraid I didn’t play around there as much as you did. Interviewer: Where did you grow up? Mrs. Russell: Well, I was born on North College Avenue about halfway between Leonard and what’s now Michigan Street, was then called Bridge. And it was a plat that my father had bought up there, a large piece of land; and our house was the only house on it. He built this house, establishing the plat. And we used to walk a good distance of a half mile up Bridge Street to school and think nothing of it. In those days, whether it (would) be summer or winter we’d go home for lunch and go back again. But of course that’s unheard of now. And it occurs to me that we used to go bobsledding right down those College Avenue hills. Either way, because we lived right just halfway between. Then a little later on ‘course there were lots of houses built, largely due to my father’s development. That whole section filled in, so we had neighbors, at that time. I lived there until I was probably twelve or thirteen years old and then we moved down on Lyon Street in one of these houses that are now being shown on the Heritage Hill tour, which intrigued me. I went in to see it Saturday. I hadn’t seen it since about the year, what did I figure that out? I think it was probably about nineteen eighteen. And I’ve never been in the house since we left it. It was very interesting to see five apartments in it. I couldn’t quite picture that because they hadn’t had that many people living there. Interviewer: Whereabouts on Lyon is that house? Mr. Russell: Four-forty. Mrs. Russell: Near College Avenue. It’s a block between College and Prospect. It’s directly back of Central High School. We, we owned the property, straight through from Lyon Street to the Central High School line. We had a big tennis court back of the house that about half the town used to make use of because there weren’t too many tennis courts then; and they’d all come and warm up for the city tournaments, the city tennis tournaments. And so we, we got a lot of circulation of people there while we lived there. And then at that time I attended the Central Grammar School, which was down, at the corner of Barclay and Lyon Street. And of course that’s since been torn down. It was a great big square building and very high on quite a hill that’s since been leveled down, considerably. Then of course the next step was to go to the old high school next door and then I eventually graduated my last year nine twelve I graduated from Central High School. And then from that residence, my father built down on Madison Avenue. I spent the rest of my life with them, I spent down there. I’ve always been around the parts here. Interviewer: Where, whereabouts on Madison was that? �5 Mrs. Russell: At the corner of Logan and it isn’t exactly the corner though, one house south of the corner of Logan on the east side of the street. Right next to, well it used to be Henry Heald’s house, a very old, old house, which was taken down, wasn’t it or is it still there? Mr. Russell: Yes, it‘s turned in to a school. Mrs. Russell: School now. Yes, it, it had quite a historical old house next to it. But, again my father bought a piece of land out there and then sold off the lots to the various people that built between our home and Logan and Morris Avenue and Madison. So we had a neighborhood that developed all at one time practically and ….. Interviewer: What was your father’s name? Mrs. Russell: William C. Hopson. People called it Hopkins or Hobson, it isn’t, it’s none of those, it’s H-O-P-S-O-N. I hate to have it called otherwise. He came here, when did I tell you he came here? Eighteen, hold that down here, I ought to, I hate to be inaccurate. (He) came to Grand Rapids in the spring of 1870. Now that’s right, that’s when he came, he came here from Ypsilanti; but he was born in Toledo, Ohio. And he came here with a widowed mother and he was of tender age of about twelve years old when he came here and had a very heavy degree of dependency on her part. So that, he used to go to night school and tried to pick up his education and I think he went to high school until he was seventeen and I doubt he ever graduated. I don’t think so. But he went heavily to night school. And then at that time he joined a metalworking firm called Shriver-Weatherly. And in the course and learned the trade... he learned the metal trade and worked hard at it I’m sure, because he was pretty vigorous at applying himself. Then his spare time on holidays and nights he used to run a popcorn stand down on the corner of Monroe and Lyon right beside of the Mays, where Mays is now. And he really could tell some tall tales about how much money he’d make on July Fourth, and how far he could make the lemonade go. Interviewer: Was that a pretty big day in Grand Rapids, July Fourth? Mrs. Russell: Evidently it was because apparently they had a parade. I think they always had a parade that got everybody downtown. Then if he could get them downtown then he could catch them for a popcorn ball or a glass of lemonade. I’m sure he said that he didn’t make lemonade out of a single lemon. I think he bought something called citric acid and turned it out of that, and consequently it was profitable. But he had kind of a struggle getting along. And he was sort of proud of some of his success. He helped put the roof on, I think the post office, ahead of the old post office. I don’t think this one was the one that was. Mr. Russell: Oh, no it was…. �6 Mrs. Russell: …the one that preceded this one. But he used to like to talk about having helped put the roof on the one, not the one, two ahead of our modern one; the one that preceded the court building now at the corner of Lyon and Ottawa. Is that? Yes, Ionia and Lyon. And it was the building ahead of that one I’m sure that he put the roof on. And or helped and he had some rugged occupations all right. Of course he went in business after he worked for ShriverWeatherly; he went in business for himself. And he got a man to back him with money, some money, and then after a period he was able to buy the man out and go out on his own. And he continued until it became W.C. Hopson and Company which is still operating under the name Hopson-Bennett now. And…. Mr. Russell: On Grandville Avenue, the building was built in nineteen-ten, that’s it was… Mrs. Russell: Nineteen-ten. He built the building and …. Mrs. Russell: He was a lover of automobiles and, I think the first time he ever saw an automobile for sale was out at the, what do you call that? Mr. Russell: West Michigan Fair… Mrs. Russell: West Michigan Park, West Michigan Fair. Is that what they called it? West Michigan, wasn’t there a park in there? Mr. Russell: No. it was at Comstock Park. Mrs. Russell: Out at Comstock Park. And they had a demonstrator of Oldsmobile, with a little, I think a single lunger. I’m sure it was because it went by jerks and, it had a removable rear. When we rode in it on Sunday why it had two seats, but all during the week when he was going back and forth to work in it he had just a platform and slide the second seat off and put this platform on. And the car wasn’t very dependable because they were the early days and the chain kept breaking, no matter what they did to it; nobody really knew how to repair it. And this chain would keep breaking so whenever we went for a ride on Sunday, the man who was the teamster down at the factory and lived fairly near us, took the horses, they had a team of horses there, had to stay home so he could be sure to come out and tow us in. So we spent, this poor man never got a Sunday out when we were out riding. My father finally said well I’m going to drive that car to Lansing because I’m going to take it right back to the factory. Everything in the world’s happened to it, and Adams and Hart was the automobile agency here. They worked over it and they hadn’t done very well by it so he got this teamster to say he’d go along with him and it took him four days to make Lansing, partly due to the fact that the roads were so muddy. There weren’t any paved roads at all. It was just all dirt roads. And they’d get stuck and then something would break and they’d get that put together and fixed up and then they’d go a little further. But they made Lansing. I don’t know whether he ever brought it back or not but he got to Lansing. I always thought it was so amusing to be towed in, and I was so embarrassing to have had horses �7 be pulling you when you had this good-looking car; and not very many cars in Grand Rapids. There were very few. Then later on he got a fancy, for just a notional fancy, he thought the Franklin car was the car. It couldn’t freeze and it was, oh it was just the car to have. So he stuck to that pretty consistently. Then he got a notion that my mother might drive an electric car. She wasn’t very brave about getting behind a wheel and so he got a Detroit Electric and, he jokingly said to my mother, “Now Mr. Steinman is our city assessor and he lives just a block from us here. Don’t drive around that way or he’ll raise our, what do you call it? Mr. Russell: Personal property assessment. Mrs. Russell: Yes, personal property tax. And so my mother went out with the man demonstrating it, who was trying to teach her to drive it and she tried to turn the corner from Fountain to College and she ran right up on Mr. Steinman’s lawn and, and the car stopped right in his yard, which we always thought was very humorous. Mr. Russell: It was a good start? Mrs. Russell: You know, at that time I lived there on Lyon Street, Blodgett Hospital was on the corner of College and Lyon. Only of course it was UBA Hospital before they changed the name. But that presented quite a different picture with that hospital on the corner. Less than a block away from us, it was. And of course that is right where Fountain Street School is now. That’s the location where UBA was. Mr. Russell: Fountain Street School? Mrs. Russell: Yes. Mr. Russell: UBA was United Benevolent Association. Did you ever hear of that? Interviewer: No. Mr. Russell: That was the hospital organization. Mrs. Russell: It preceded; it’s the same hospital except that the Blodgetts put a put a great deal of money into this hospital and in recognition they changed the name of it. I think they still, their annual meetings refer to it as United Benevolent Association. I think the name has... Mr. Russell: Oh, is that? Mrs. Russell: ….been fluctuated a little. I’m not sure of that, but I think so. Interviewer: What was the United Benevolent Association? Mr. Russell: I don’t know what denomination it was, do you? �8 Interviewer: Perhaps it had some religious affiliation then? Mr. Russell: Yes, it Mrs. Russell: I don’t think so. I don’t think it is. No, I think it was more like, something instead of the [Community] Chest; a group of private, contributors who united to build the hospital. I don’t recall there was ever any religious….. Mr. Russell: Well, now wasn’t Butterworth in operation at that time, too? Mrs. Russell: No. Mr. Russell: That was later on? Mrs. Russell: I don’t think so. I think, I think UBA was the first one. I think. I hope they don’t rely on my accuracy ‘cause I could be wrong and I could be corrected. I just remember what it looks like. I’m sure it was there, when I was there. Interviewer: Did your mother ever, did your father ever buy that electric car? Did you…..? Mrs. Russell: Yes, we had about three of them. We had one right after the other. They were very intriguing to operate because, in fact they created an awful problem for me to learn to drive a gas car when I got married. I had to drive a gar car. His idea was it would keep me out of the gas car, which he had, and the electric would be so much safer. And so I didn’t bother to learn to drive his car at all. So when I got married all Fran had was a gas car. It presented a great problem because an electric, all you did when you got in a tight place was pull everything off. Well, that doesn’t work very well with a gas car. So that every time I’d get any place that was difficult, I’d stall. The system was very interesting. It has two levers and that’s the two levers and the brakes is all there is to the whole car really. You had five speeds and of course they weren’t exactly racing speeds but you could, you’d operate with your right hand you did the steering (changing side of reel) that’s just what it was like. Mr. Russell: there was…. Mrs. Russell: And very clean cars. That was the nice part about it, there was no grease or oil or anything like that about it. The car always, then of course you had to have it charged. We had a charging arrangement in our garage and it would only go about, oh I think they said it would go eighty miles on a charge. It never would. Fifty miles was about all they’d go on a good full charge. So usually when you brought the car in, you put it right on the charge. And tried to keep it pepped up so that you could use it for where you wanted to go. Fortunately the first one we had, we lived on Lyon Street and we didn’t have a charger in the garage then. The garage being a barn, we didn’t have a garage at all; it was an old barn out in back of the house. And our source of electricity was down on Bond Avenue, that isn’t even there anymore, is it? �9 Mr. Russell: No. Mrs. Russell: Bond isn’t even….. Mr. Russell: It was the first block east of Monroe but it isn’t… Mrs. Russell: No, it’d be right in between the gas company and the Old Kent Bank, wouldn’t it? Mr. Russell: Yes Mrs. Russell: Isn’t that about where it… Mr. Russell: It was the first block east… Mrs. Russell: There was a very good garage there. The best garage in the town and they were rather, well they were kind of half ahead of their time, don’t you think they were? Mr. Russell: Well, C.J. Bronson’s Mrs. Russell: Bronson’s garage, yes, so that when we’d get out of juice, we could start at the top of Lyon Street hill and make the garage on Bond Avenue very nicely. Just slide into it. Deader than a doornail, because when an electric car is dead it’s awful dead. It doesn’t do a thing. Interviewer: Why did he think that electric cars were safer than gasoline cars? Mrs. Russell: They didn’t go so fast. They were slow, they were slow cars. Mr. Russell: The highest speed would be thirty, perhaps thirty five, it wasn’t…. Mrs. Russell: Well, then I think they thought they were safer because they had fewer adjustments; you didn’t have a clutch, you didn’t have to do anything about a clutch, you know. It didn’t have to mesh or anything of that kind. You could be awful dumb and drive an electric, and I don’t know, my father thought it was perfectly alright for me to drive that but he wouldn’t listen to me driving a gas car. I don’t know quite what all that reasoning was, do you? Mr. Russell: Well, when you’re limited to fifty mile radius you know, you can’t get very far away from home, because you’d have to be sure to get back. Mrs. Russell: I wasn’t that far away. I wasn’t trying to make distance. Mr. Russell: They, they never got up any speed unless you were on the right side of a hill, then you could do it, so like coming down Lyon Street or Bridge Street. But, then they’re very stable, they’d climb a hill in great shape…. Mrs. Russell: They’d go through anything. �10 Mr. Russell: If they were properly charged up. Mrs. Russell: They’d just, the application, electricity was almost more powerful then gas, the gas might jump you or something, but electric power just really, in fact I backed right straight through this garage door once without raising it, so I know what it can do. Interviewer: Do you remember the first gas station in Grand Rapids? Mr. Russell: Oh, no. Mrs. Russell: Let me see if I can think of an early one. Mr. Russell: I think that would be…. Mrs. Russell: Where’d you get gas? Mr. Russell: Bronson’s garage was where we….. Mrs. Russell: Bronson’s the first, there on Bond Avenue. I’ll bet that was as early, did we go way there for gas? Did you get gas from there? Mr. Russell: Well at our house, we had a fifty gallon tank and the tank, the gasoline tank wagon would drive up there and fill it up, periodically and then we’d have to pump out of that ourselves and fill our tank through a chamois strainer to be sure that no dirt or water or anything else got into the tank. It was very important to be sure that the gas was pure getting in there. It didn’t get through any filter, pump or anything of that sort as it does now. It came right off the tank wagon right into our tank and then we had to transport it in five gallon lots into our automobile tank. And of course in those days the tank didn’t hold more than about ten gallons anyways so. Our experience was the first Model-T Ford, ours was number seven ninety-nine of the Model-T. And, we had that, let’s see, we bought that in nineteen eleven and in about three months, it was so redesigned that we had to run ours back to the factory and have it rebuilt. They changed the details of it from a bent bearing to roller bearing from a pump driven circulation for cooling the motor to a thermo siphon and several refinements so that we sort of felt as if we’d helped them develop the Ford in an experimental way in having such an early number. And that car basically was quite reasonable at as I recall about six hundred dollars, but then you had to have the windshield added and the speedometer and the gas headlights and the gas tank as the acetylene tank, this was before electric headlights. And we had all these details added up you’re well over a thousand dollars. Interviewer: Oh, really? �11 Mr. Russell: …to get the thing operating. But they’d sell the thing with kerosene lamps if you wanted but that didn’t shine very far up the road. You really had to have acetylene gas headlights to give you the real light. Mrs. Russell: Didn’t you have acetylene gas in your house? We did. Mr. Russell: Yes, before electricity was…. Mrs. Russell: Before they had electric…. Mr. Russell: Yes, we had…. Mrs. Russell: ….make it out of carbide, didn’t they? Put in big tanks. Mr. Russell: Yes. Mrs. Russell: It had something, looked like a furnace, did it? Mr. Russell: Sort of, Yes and then, there were two systems…. Mrs. Russell: I can remember carrying buckets of carbide. Mr. Russell: The calcium carbide would be, in one system would be dropped into the water and then it forms acetylene gas and the tank would fill up. Then the other system was dropping water on a sort of container of calcium carbide and you’d raised acetylene gas by that method. The one method was you drop the carbide into the water and the other method was to drop water on the carbide. Mrs. Russell: What’s preferable? Why, why the difference? Mr. Russell: Well, just two different processes. I don’t know, we thought that the best one was the Davis process that we used at our house. Although at your house you had the Owens. Mrs. Russell: I think we did. Mr. Russell: Which was the, it is a…. Mrs. Russell: Do I remember seeing a tank, when it was full rise? Mr. Russell: Yes, in either case, when the water came in contact with the carbide, it would form acetylene gas and then the tank would rise and fill up and shut off the operation, so it wouldn’t go too far. Then as you used the gas, the tank would recede and so the mechanism would start the process again, dropping more carbide into the tank; or dropping more water on the carbide. Interviewer: Where, where was the tank located? �12 Mr. Russell: In the basement. Mrs. Russell: In the basement, yes. Interviewer: Was it in a…..? Mrs. Russell: Looked a little like a furnace in that it was a galvanized iron cylinder sort of, wasn’t it? Mr. Russell: That’s right. Interviewer: I see, it had a support…around it… Mrs. Russell: And it had a cylinder within a cylinder sort of, isn’t that right? Mr. Russell: That’s right. Mrs. Russell: And this one that would rise was the inner cylinder, you see, they’d seed this stuff into the bottom, didn’t they? Mr. Russell: Yes. Mrs. Russell: And then as it formed the gas it would shove this inner cylinder up and I suppose create the pressure that’d carry light around your house and was good light. Don’t you think it was? Mr. Russell: Oh yes, it was very, very nice… Mrs. Russell: Very steady, it was a very steady light. Mr. Russell: Bright light, this was in case you weren’t anywheres near the natural gas main, oh I mean the city gas company. Where we were out there, we’re a long ways away from service. Mrs. Russell: Now we weren’t very far. Why would we have had a ….. Mr. Russell: Well up on the hill, you’d be quite a ways from the central supply which was down on Market and Wealthy, you know. Mrs. Russell: They used to make that out of coal, didn’t they? Mr. Russell: Yes Mrs. Russell: Before the natural gas that they had. Mr. Russell: Yes �13 Interviewer: Do you, do you remember where the first parking lot was in Grand Rapids? Do you remember a parking lot opening? Mr. Russell: No, no I can’t, I can’t recall that ….. Mrs. Russell: You don’t mean a public one, just any one open to the public but not a city run? Interviewer: Correct. Mrs. Russell: Livingston Hotel…? Mr. Russell: Parking lot? Mrs. Russell: I thought that, when after that fire, wasn’t there one in which you drove in on the tile floor. Do you suppose, I’m not real sure that’s right, but you know they had, what kind of a room would you call it? Mr. Russell: Foyer for a wagon. Mrs. Russell: No, down under their basement room was a cocktail lounge we’d call it now but it wasn’t back then. No. It was, but it was that type of place. They had entertainment there, evening gatherings. Mr. Russell: The saloon you mean? Mrs. Russell: …then after the fire. I thought I remember driving in there on tile floor. They just left the floor, the floor didn’t burn. Do you remember that or… Mr. Russell: No, I don’t recall that. END of Side I – cassette CD is at Track 2 24:16 Mrs. Russell: I had a funny notion that was about as… I can’t re, I don’t think I remember parking lots though very much. Interviewer: Where was the Livingston Hotel located? Mrs. Russell: The corner of Fulton and Division, the…. Mr. Russell: Southeast corner. Mrs. Russell: Southeast corner. Interviewer: Where Davenport business building? Mrs. Russell: Yes…it, where they used to be, that corner. �14 Mr. Russell: Yes, then after the Press building went in there and then Herald and …. Mrs. Russell: Well, they didn’t go in after the Livingston. They were there at the time the Livingston Hotel was there. Mr. Russell: Oh, the Livingston didn’t extend up as far as Sheldon then? Mrs. Russell: Oh, no. The Livingston’s about, a little bit bigger than the Davenport building, and I think maybe the Herald took part of it and got a little bigger and maybe build... Mr. Russell: Yes, I guess that’s right. It was ….. Mrs. Russell: But, that, I’m sure that the Press and the Herald were there be, right along with the Livingston. Interviewer: Where did you, where did you first live when you were married? Mr. Russell: On Oakwood Avenue, just north of Coit. And that was, right after we’d platted the farm out there. You see, we had the Comstock Dairy Farm; it was a hundred and sixty acres, which is Riverside Gardens now and we had joined with Charles Sligh and Jay Post who had frontage up on Plainfield and we were able to make our street extensions continuous from Plainfield down to Monroe, in accordance with the drainage areas, like Comstock Boulevard, now is the drainage area and Sligh Boulevard. And in that manner you didn’t run into these deadend streets and things of that kind when you were able to plat this in conjunction with the adjoining owners, Mr. Charles R. Sligh and Jay Post. And this was the first street that we’d extended from the city up North to the 3 Mile Road, which was the city limits at that time. And our house was one of the first, three or four that were built on that street to open the plat. And then subsequent to that, different sections in Riverside Gardens were put on as they could be absorbed in the market. Mrs. Russell: Oh, that was your business when I married you wasn’t it for a good many years. In fact you still have a few lots haven’t you? Very few. Mr. Russell: Oh, we’re down to about our last half dozen now but it’s pretty well developed up there now But when we were married there was all open fields and we had one of the first houses to be built on the plat; although preceding that, my grandfather had built a very substantial residence on Boltwood Drive and my father and mother Huntley Russell and Clara Russell built the large pillared house that’s still standing out there now, just off from Boltwood Drive. But at that time these two houses were separated by the streetcar line that came by the Wealthy-Taylor car line that ran through there to Comstock Park. �15 Interviewer: Well now, as I am not familiar with that area of town in terms of the names of the streets. As you drive on Monroe Avenue towards well out to the Riverside Park area, where the park is, there’s ….. Mrs. Russell: They gave Riverside Park to the city, they, his family did. Interviewer: Really? Mr. Russell: Yes, that was known in our family as the flats and, we used to have to, in order to raise any crops there at all which was mostly corn, we had to establish dikes, at the river bank to keep the flood water out of that area. And we had pumps operating there pumping it out if it broke at all. After, as time went on, we gave up that section for any residential purpose at all and turned into, dedicated it to the city as a park. And Riverside, Comstock-Riverside Park developed after that. Mrs. Russell: Your plat would be directly east of Riverside Park. Isn’t that right? Mr. Russell: Yes. Mrs. Russell: The one that Riverside Gardens, that he’s talking about, where we lived. We lived on one of those lots east of Monroe. Mr. Russell: So Riverside Park is the property west of Monroe and Riverside Gardens is the property east of Monroe, which is… Interviewer: I see. Mrs. Russell: (?) …and Mrs. Boltwood gave it to the city, isn’t that right? Mr. Russell: Yes, Mrs. Boltwood did. Mrs. Russell: Mrs. Boltwood; they were sisters - Mrs. Lucius Boltwood and Mrs. Huntley Russell. They did, they did quite a lot. Well, this platting was done with both of them together, wasn’t it? Mr. Russell: Yes. Mrs. Russell: It was in their names, of course. Interviewer: When out in there off of Monroe, there’s a large old home that is totally unlike any of the houses that are built in that area around it. It’s a huge home… Mr. Russell: With columns? Mrs. Russell: The columns? �16 Interviewer: Did the columns face to the south? Mr. Russell: No, they faced west. Mrs. Russell: Yes, west. Let’s see. Interviewer: Well maybe, maybe they do face west, and I just never…. Mrs. Russell: White is it, a white house, sort of? Mr. Russell: Green roof? Interviewer: Yes, right, right. Mrs. Russell: There’s a drive going in around it. Interviewer: I’ve never driven over to look at the house up close; I see it from the road Mrs. Russell: I think that’s his home. That was… Mr. Russell: Well, the house really faces west, but you approach it off from Boltwood Drive on the south. Mrs. Russell: Boltwood Drive. The south would be the entry you, you’d come in off, from the south. So you probably thought that was the entrance you see. It is the biggest house out there and it’s startling and it’s a very fine old home. It’s very beautifully built and is yet a beautiful house. His brother lives there yet. Interviewer: Oh, your brother still lives there? Mr. Russell: Charles Russell, yes. And this was originally built on a five acre plot and the old Comstock home was built on a five acre plot just to the west. And then would be platting and of course this acreage was absorbed in lots and the lots on which these houses stood were materially reduced in size. And it looks entirely different there now than it did when they were originally put in in eighteen ninety and nineteen ten. It was just the days of those two original houses. And, the farm buildings were at the juncture of Coit and Guild The dairy barn there had over two hundred head of cattle and they had ran a milk route out of there to supply milk to certain sections of the city. Mrs. Russell: Isn’t that the... .wasn’t that right on the edge of the property that is now Riverside School out there? Mr. Russell: Oh, where the dairy barn was? Mrs. Russell: The dairy barn? �17 Mr. Russell: No the Riverside School is east of there; up on the rise, up on the hill. Mrs. Russell: But I thought it went down to Coit. Doesn’t it, go way down to Coit? Mr. Russell: No. Mrs. Russell: Oh, I thought it did. Mr. Russell: When you look back and think of that as a farm and supplying milk to the city, it’s awfully hard to visualize now with all the houses and development that has taken place. But it was , it was a very good, dairy farm and the property that adjoined it to the north and east, the Nason farm, was subsequently purchased by the Charles Sligh; not Charlie Sligh, but his father, with whom we collaborated on platting the property back in the, we were working on this in the twenties, nineteen twenty. Mrs. Russell: You haven’t said anything about the waterworks. Mr. Russell: Well that was a double enterprise that my grandfather Comstock established to take care of the water necessities of the pavilion and the dummy, which required a large amount of water. Of course, that’s that was the motor powered thing they had to have plenty of water to create the steam to keep the dummy going. And in order to keep the dairy farm up; [to] keep plenty of water flowing to the cattle all the time, he established the water wheel in Lamberton Creek where it crosses Coit, and pumped out of springs in the immediate locality of where the stream comes down through there. And pumped up to a ten thousand gallon tank that stood just south of Northwood, it’s known as Northwood now, and east of Coit. And from there, this water was distributed to the dairy farm and to the North Park Pavilion. Then as the community grew up, more people, more houses built and so forth, they attached on to this water supply and [it was] known as the North Park Water Company. And it gradually grew and grew until at the time, the city came out there and took it over we had about a hundred and fifty customers that [we] were supplying out through North Park. And then when the city grew, the city limits was extended out there, then this company had to be taken over by the city and of course the mains reinforced and distribution enlarged and so forth. Interviewer: Gee, your Grandfather Comstock was into everything, wasn’t he? Mr. Russell: I guess he was. For one time he had a…. Mrs. Russell: You haven’t told… Mr. Russell: ….five farms around town... Mrs. Russell: Fran, I always thought that was interesting that during the Depression, what was that in ninety-three? �18 Mr. Russell: Oh, yes in ninety-three... Mrs. Russell: He issued his own script. He had the Grand Rapids Chair Company, which he’d built; the buildings still there on Monroe. And… Mrs. Russell: Baker Furniture now, isn’t it? Mr. Russell: Yes. Mrs. Russell: Or else taken over by the…. Mr. Russell: I think…. Mrs. Russell: …subsequent merger, I don’t know. Mr. Russell: But he originally built those buildings and, it was called Grand Rapids Chair Company for years. Then across the street, across Monroe, he had a store, a general store, at which his employees traded and they ran into this, financial difficulty in ninety-three, the panic, they were shy of cash, as everybody was, but my grandfather established script known as Comstock script, that he would pay his employees in the factory. And then they’d go across the street and redeem it for groceries in the grocery store. And in this manner he weathered the storm there for several months, I really don’t know the exact period. But it was an interim affair that helped him keep going. He could still manufacture, he could still pay his employees. Mrs. Russell: And they could still eat. Mr. Russell: And still eat. It was a sort of self-contained unit there that made it possible for him to operate during that period. I don’t believe it lasted so very long; but I don’t think it was an extensive as our nineteen-thirty depression; but I really don’t know because I wasn’t around at that time. But it was an interesting operation to be able to work this out with himself instead of just laying these fellows off… Mrs. Russell: I was resourceful. Mr. Russell: …paid ‘em in the script so they could still maintain their domestic operation of families and didn’t starve at all. But he was the mayor at one time, of the city. And he was also a Congressman in Washington, for one term, on the Whig ticket; and in his memoirs he was quite put out with the time that was wasted down there. So much time was killed in talk and not accomplishing things. Mrs. Russell: You must be talking about now (?) Mr. Russell: And this, well that book right in back of you that was a written, his memoirs and we typed them, had them typed and it’s quite, interesting, his…. �19 Mrs. Russell: They’re very historical accounts… Interviewer: I bet it is. Mrs. Russell: He was quite outspoken. He had definite ideas. Mr. Russell: But he… Mrs. Russell: I think there’s one of those in the library isn’t there? Interviewer: Think so? Mrs. Russell: They asked you for one. Didn’t I remember your giving them one? I think there is. Mr. Russell: Z.Z. Lydens said that he had some good leads out of that in writing this last history of Grand Rapids. Interviewer: Oh, yeah? Mr. Russell: He said he got some good information out of that. But, he wrote that at the time he was in Congress because he had so much time on his hands down there. I guess he was not much of a speaker and of course he didn’t have any priority, just being a freshman. And with so much time on his hands he started writing this and followed through and in good shape so it’s made a very interesting history for the family to refer to. Interviewer: That’s it’s a nice… Mr. Russell: But I think there’s a copy of that in the (library). End of Reel I (#31) Mr. Russell: ….That stuff was all by the boards Interviewer: Where did they bring these logs down from? Mr. Russell: Well, this is when they were still cutting within an eight or ten mile area say of North Park, up around Rockford and Belding, Belmont and those places. And they’d, well, they’re a good size log you know and they’d just pile ‘em on these, actually just runners there’s a front runner and a rear runner, and get a pole connecting them - then these logs would really form the body of the vehicle. And they’d be stacked up there in great shape and it would take a good sturdy team of horses, only during the winter of course when they had a good snow on the ground. And then they’d take a load down there and our bobsled would hook a ride on this team behind, go down the road perhaps a half mile or so and then catch another team coming back. �20 Interviewer: Were those logs white pine? Mr. Russell: Oh, I really don’t know the composition; it might have been. Might have been oak or elm or whatever was hanging around p there. You know these good sized trees we have out here… Mrs. Russell: Did they ever float them down the river? Mr. Russell: Oh, yes. Mrs. Russell: Do you know anything about that? Mr. Russell: Yes, they floated them down the river and held them with certain booms down at where the dam is now at, there’s one log jam I remember seeing just a little log[jam] at Leonard Street when they got jammed up there one season. And there was in the spring when the floods would come along, that was the time to dump ‘em in there and bring ‘em down to the saw-mill which was down where the, about where the Grand Trunk Freight House is. And then my grandfather ran this, saw-mill there and a lumber yard. Interviewer: That was another enterprise, huh? Mr. Russell: Well that was in connection with his furniture and so forth. Had to have lumber for furniture to make pails and tubs; you had to have the lumber for. Interviewer: Would you tell me that, we were talking before about the fact that the streetcars had mailboxes on them and people could mail letters on the streetcar. Would you tell me again why they had the mail boxes on the street cars? Mr. Russell: Well, because they were afraid of strikes at that time on the railroads, on the street railways. Mrs. Russell: Street Railway. Mr. Russell: And this, I can’t remember who was superintendent at that time, but he got the bright idea that if we just turned this into a federal operation that would circumvent the strike. And I think that was basically why it was done. Not necessarily for the convenience of the populace so much as it was because it’d keep the railroad going. But it was a very handy thing, particularly to us out there. That was quite… ours was the longest line in town. The WealthyTaylor line came out to Ramona and ended at North Park. That’s quite a distance, going down through town, way out there and back again. And, it was… Mrs. Russell: How far…? Mr. Russell: I think eight miles from end to end. �21 Mrs. Russell: How far out do you think it was developed out this way really, along the railway line? Mr. Russell: Well now you see I didn’t know so much about out here because I was always in the North End. I was always a North Ender, Mrs. Russell: Well I can, it seems to me that about at Plymouth the car would just tear through the greater part of swampland and they’d always pick up speed and go, I thought…. Mr. Russell: Well, that was because there was, there was a slight decline there and … Mrs. Russell: Then, then kept going. Mr. Russell: Let’s see take from the intersection of Wealthy and Lake Drive. There’s a slight decline which was, more accentuated at that time because it’s been filled quite a good deal there to bring the street up. Mrs. Russell I don’t think there were very many houses at all…. Mr. Russell: Oh, there weren’t, no… Mrs. Russell: It was barren land that I remember. Mr. Russell: It was swampy really. Mrs. Russell: Between that and Ramona but Ramona was there a long time ahead of any houses, wasn’t it? Mr. Russell: Oh, yes. Ramona was an amusement park for the benefit of the railroad to bring passengers out there, you see. Mrs. Russell: And what was that beer garden that was there, it was a very famous one that was there just about at the beginning of Ramona, too. What did they call it? A German name, a real German name. Mr. Russell: Oh, yes, that was, that was a good attraction there. Mrs. Russell: Hubers. Mr. Russell: Hubers Beer Garden. Mrs. Russell: Hubers Beer Garden and there was a big one. It was a great big, well it was under cover, it was a building and very popular. That was quite a place of entertainment… Mr. Russell: Basically beer that. �22 Mrs. Russell: ...too you know they’d not hard liquor but basically a beer garden that sort… that’s what it was, all it was, wasn’t it? Mr. Russell: And I don’t think… Mrs. Russell: I don’t think they had food, I think it was just a beer garden. But I remember it always there on the grounds, and it was right close to Ramona. Mr. Russell: And then after that there was the Phoenix Beer Garden which stands where the, which stood where the Yacht Club is now, that on that side of Lake Drive, or Lakeside Drive and between Lakeside Drive and the lake. That was very popular beer garden too for some time. Mrs. Russell: I don’t know that one. Mr. Russell: But you see when they had vaudeville out there, they got a lot of patronage out of Grand Rapids on the streetcars, those would be filled right up with, right up to the roof. Mrs. Russell: Do you remember the… Interviewer: In other words the streetcar owners in that, in those days, were they would devise ways of getting the people to ride that train as much as possible? Mr. Russell: Yes. Interviewer: That’s why he built up Ramona, just to get people taking that long trip back and forth, huh? Mrs. Russell: It was done by the railway company, wasn’t it? Mr. Russell: Yes, they owned the operation out there and …. Mrs. Russell: Do you remember the Honolulu Car that Mr. Hanchett had? Mr. Russell: Yes, he…. Mrs. Russell: …had all the wicker chairs in it. Mr. Russell: Private car, called the Honolulu. Mrs. Russell: He’d take his best friends out for a ride on the street cart and maybe take ‘em to Ramona (and), but it was quite a car. It was shorter and smaller than most of the cars and very nicely decorated. Of course it’d probably look funny now, but it was all wicker furniture and they called it the Honolulu car. That was known all over town. Mr. Russell: That was a result of his having taken a trip over to the Hawaiian Islands…. �23 Mrs. Russell: Oh, I didn’t know that. Mr. Russell: And he brought back a couple of Filipino servants with him, you know. Mrs. Russell: Well, well they were serving on it probably. Mr. Russell: Yes. Mrs. Russell: But I’ll bet that furniture all came from over there too cause it (?) Mr. Russell: But you see that, it was Ramona at one end of the line and then the best days with the West Michigan State Fair, or Comstock Park at the other end, gee that… Mrs. Russell: That was a flourishing line. Mr. Russell: This was a line…. Mrs. Russell; And skating in the winter, there was lots of skating on Reed’s Lake. And that a street railway… Mr. Russell: Streetcars were very… Mrs. Russell: Streetcar was very busy, it really was. Mr. Russell: Well just imagine having one go by every ten minutes, as we used to have. Gosh. Better than any bus or anything else you see [now]. But you had to walk from here to the line to get it, wherever you were. But when you look back on that, and think of how important streetcars were gee that old stuff just phased right out. Interviewer: Looking back and remembering the days when you were growing up and so on, compared to today which age seems to be more pleasant? A better age to live in? Mr. Russell: What do you mean is to whether you’d… Mrs. Russell: Prefer… Mr. Russell: ...Prefer this age or that age… Interviewer: Yes. Mr. Russell: Oh, what age, what age would? Mrs. Russell: I look back about high school and college as, I don’t know, we had such a lot of this kind of slow fun. It was slower paced. The whole thing had to be slower paced. You couldn’t go tearing around at ten things instead of one; you did one thing and made a lot of it. But when I think of your cottage down there at Ottawa Beach and the house parties that you had there and �24 the fun we had going down and fooling around on the beach, now that wouldn’t be any fun, I wouldn’t want to do it you know. Well, because the crowds, the cars and everything else, but then there wouldn’t be anybody around then. Mr. Russell: Well, let’s see… Mrs. Russell: What do you think? Mr. Russell: I think between fifteen and thirty about, those fifteen years that are between fifteen and thirty…. Mrs. Russell: Well I think I’ve ….much older than too. I think I’d pick that out too. Mr. Russell: Liquor wasn’t so important to you. You didn’t… Mrs. Russell: You didn’t have it. Mrs. Russell: It wasn’t a bit important. Mr. Russell: You didn’t have any drugs certainly. And … Mrs. Russell: No, we lacked that. Mr. Russell: We had bicycles and roller skates, ice skates and then just boating. Mrs. Russell: I think we always had boating, lots of sail boating, I, we had lots of fun sailing, of course. Mr. Russell: And the river was made much more use of then, with canoes and row-boats and shells. You know what a shell is, don’t you? Interviewer: Yes. Mr. Russell: Single or double and four and so forth. And we had, well the boat club, they had a two or three eights there, as well as singles and doubles and fours. Interviewer: Did they have the, what are those, waterfalls, in the river then? Down, down… Mr. Russell: Rapids? Interviewer: Well, they were the, where now they’ve got little, I don’t know what you call ’em, they’re not a dam, they don’t hold the water back but they…. Mr. Russell: Obstructions. Well they, they’ve been there only, I don’t think they’re more than twenty five years old, I think they’re fairly recent. Because, I can remember a period when during the summer the riverbeds looked pretty punk there, so many rocks and everything �25 showing it, dried out rocks and moss and so forth and there was a period when they built five obstructions you can’t call them dams you see just an obstruction, way across the river to hold the water back in pools. And I think that’s what we’ve got there now, haven’t we? I don’t think they’ve, I don’t think they’ve all been carried out. Of course, the big dam up above, (has) always been something there. Mrs. Russell: Well now, where it’s at. Where’s the big dam? Mr. Russell: Well the big dam is at Allen Calculator and right across a … Mrs. Russell: I can’t place there, I don’t know if… Mr. Russell: Well, you know where Sixth Street is? Sixth Street Bridge. Mrs. Russell: Oh. Mr. Russell: Newberry Street? Mrs. Russell: Yes Mr. Russell: Just south of there; halfway between there and Bridge Street. Mrs. Russell: Bridge Street? Mr. Russell. Now that dam has always been there; and you know there were canals of either side of the river, from that dam leading down parallel to Monroe. I can remember when it was open there; an open canal, flowing under Bridge Street and then over into Bissell’s. It supplied them with motor power and also to, that was a little bit before my time, Butterworth and Lowe Machine Shop, south of Bissell Plant. Then on the other side it went down to the mills, to the milling companies. Oh yeah, then also there was a mill on this side of the river too; the Valley City Milling the rolling milling company, just north, well right where the post office is. Then on the other side it was the Voigt Milling that’s just been closed but they were both operated by what was known as runnel(?) stone; the water coming down this canal and they’d then take so much of that water off of there and I don’t know how, what the runnel stone is but I just heard so much about it. Mrs. Russell: What is runnel stone? Mr. Russell: Well. Runnel stone is a measure of water power. Mrs. Russell: Oh. Mr. Russell: Carried thru the turbines, don’t you see, to in place of steam power. �26 Interviewer: Did either one of you go off to college, after high school or did you stay in Grand Rapids? Mrs. Russell: No, we both did. I went to Vassar, Vassar College out in Poughkeepsie, New York. And I graduated from there; I was there four years. And you went to the University of Michigan, didn’t you. Mr. Russell: Yes, but I couldn’t get my grandson in the…. Interviewer: Who, Bill? Mr. Russell: Bill, yes. Interviewer: Where did he go to school? Mr. Russell: He’s down to State now. Interviewer: He didn’t want to go to the University of Michigan? Mr. Russell: He wanted to, they wouldn’t take him in. Mrs. Russell: They delayed so long in deciding to take him in, I think he heard about May or something like that, April or May and by that time he couldn’t wait that long so in the meantime, he got set up here. We were very annoyed about it. Terribly annoyed. We’re heavy livers here in Michigan, heavy taxpayers, and it doesn’t make me feel generous toward ‘em at all. Because he was a good student, he wasn’t …. Mr. Russell: Well, they took him in down there at State, he’s nicely located there, and he’s only been there two weeks or so. INDEX A C Adams and Hart Agency · 7 B Baker Furniture · 18 Blodgett Hospital · 7 Blodgetts · 8 Blythefield Club · 2 Boltwood, Mrs. Lucius · 16 Bronson, C.J. · 10 Bronson’s Garage · 10, 11 Butterworth Hospital · 8 Central Grammar School · 5 Central High School · 4, 5 Comstock Dairy Farm · 15 Comstock, Charles.C. · 1, 2 Comstock, Clara E. · 1 Comstock, Nelson and Matter · 3 F Fountain Street School · 8 �27 G P Grand Island · 2 Grand Rapids Boat and Canoe Club · 2 Grand Rapids Chair Company · 18, 19 Grand Rapids Street Railway · 3, 21 Guild, Cornelia · 1 Phoenix Beer Garden · 23 Post, Jay · 15 H Hanchett, Mr. · 23 Heald, Henry · 5 Heritage Hill · 4 Hopson, Lucille I. · 1 Hopson, William C. · 1, 5 Hopson-Bennett Company · 6 Hubers Beer Garden · 22 Hydorn, Frankie M. · 1 L R Ramona Park · 21, 22, 23, 24 Reed’s Lake · 24 Riverside Gardens · 15, 16 Riverside Park · 15, 16 Riverside School · 17 Russell, Charles · 17 Russell, Francis · 1 Russell, Huntley · 1, 15 Russell, Mrs. Huntley · 16 S Lamberton Creek · 18 Livingston Hotel · 13, 14 Shriver-Weatherly · 5 Sligh, Charles · 18 Sligh, Mr. Charles R. · 15 Steinman, Mr. · 7 M U Mays (store) · 5 Michigan Soldier’s Home · 2 UBA Hospital · 7, 8 United Benevolent Association · 8 University of Michigan · 27 N North Park Pavilion · 1, 2, 3, 4, 18 North Park Water Company · 18 O Old Kent Bank · 9 V Valley City Milling · 26 Vassar College · 27 Voigt Milling · 26 W W.C. Hopson and Company · 6 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/915db2a09cc37da9ce3a63df7a64951d.mp3 f59ba150004fa7ac70e04596cc1fca86 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Rapids Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Heritage Hill (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Local histories Memoirs Michigan--History Oral histories (document genre) Description An account of the resource Taped and transcribed interviews conducted in the early 1970s primarily of the children and grandchildren of many of the founders of Grand Rapids, Michigan; many of whom were residents of the Heritage Hill neighborhood. Interviews were collected to develop a significant collection of oral resources that would supplement other primary and secondary local history materials. Initially funded as a private project, Grand Valley State College (now University) assumed responsibility for continuing the project until 1977. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Various Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/452">Grand Rapids oral history collection (RHC-23)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf; audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text; Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-23 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1971 - 1977 Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-23_30-31Russell Title A name given to the resource Russell, Francis and Lucille Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Russell, Francis Russell, Lucille Description An account of the resource Lucille Hopson was born May 25, 1894 in Grand Rapids. She was a graduate of Vassar College. Mrs. Russell died on October 20, 1973. Francis Russell was born June 21, 1892. Mr. Russell's grandfather was C.C. Comstock, founder of Grand Rapids in 1853. C.C. Comstock was associated with the Grand Rapids Chair Company. The Russell's owned the Comstock Dairy Farm, which supplied milk to 150 customers until the city took it over. The family gave Riverside Park to Grand Rapids. He died on August 1, 1984. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan--History Local histories Memoirs Oral histories (document genre) Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Heritage Hill (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Grand Valley State University Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf audio/mp3 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Grand Rapids oral history collection (RHC-23) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1971 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/716bd0ea6b772dc816538003af6ed1bb.jpg f52f39d3ae7433ce58e11faed8f76760 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. D374 .L33 1899 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0008 Title A name given to the resource Russia and Turkey in the Nineteenth Century Description An account of the resource Binding of Russia and Turkey in the Nineteenth Century, by Elizabeth Wormeley Latimer, published by A.C. McClurg, 1899. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1899 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b53c87da953e700ff181d3e6ca9432c1.jpg fd845bb0505ceab545a5f474982a0921 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_1768 Title A name given to the resource Russian destroyer chart Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource Russian Destroyer chart, December 1, 1949. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945 Russia Military education Warships--Recognition Slides Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1949-12-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5257ea096e128e07de2bfc8876956f53.jpg 308889a6e0ca79fd5f5c05fca9678225 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_M2345 Title A name given to the resource Russian heavy bomber Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource Russian heavy bomber, TB-7, November 15, 1943. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Russia World War, 1939-1945 Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Slides Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1943-11-15 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d868e0f40145281b14c777fcf244a0b9.jpg a7d2cda6cca24028d0bc26f912d5d51c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_M2340 Title A name given to the resource Russian light bomber Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource Russian light bomber, IL-2, November 15, 1943. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Russia World War, 1939-1945 Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Slides Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1943-11-15 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/68f4ec1ff9030683d97af0a8d549acaf.jpg 4514f88eae8c4c53b30853b3c86ac0b0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_M2341 Title A name given to the resource Russian light bomber Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource Russian light bomber, IL-2, November 15, 1943. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Russia World War, 1939-1945 Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Slides Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1943-11-15 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f4292b81aa559c83198de102d27c7d57.jpg c87f46565b6778d6a5394387e6762d98 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_M2375 Title A name given to the resource Russian single-seated fighter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource Russian SSF (single-seated fighter), I-16, November 15, 1943. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Russia World War, 1939-1945 Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Slides Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1943-11-15 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/256aeb3a90bb9ca4e9e871059b43e7ca.jpg 01f09df91e0927c317a4f7493051be17 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RuszPatrick Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1977 Title A name given to the resource Rusz, Patrick Description An account of the resource Patrick Rusz, Biology Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng 1977s https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/25a34507c1ce9da731c7419251690859.pdf 17248a8ef004197bc13074555b8a720f PDF Text Text Speaking Out Western Michigan’s Civil Rights Histories Interviewee: Ryan Cronk Interviewers: Kalle Tucker, Rachael Berkenpas, and Tyler Nowak Supervising Faculty: Melanie Shell-Weiss Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 12/2/2011 Biography and Description Ryan Cronk is a student at Grand Valley State University, double majoring in Accounting and Economics. Ryan is an active member of the LGBT community as well as the Delta Upsilon fraternity. Ryan passionately works to educate others on LGBT issues within the Grand Valley community. He discusses religion and what it is like to be a gay male at Grand Valley State University. Transcript CRONK: Ok, so …we were talking about religion. Anyways, I was raised with a couple of religions. , I actually went to a Baptist church at one point. , I went to like a Christian church, and we went to…I don’t know what you would call it…it was Christian, but it was just off like, I don’t know. Maybe it was just a different style because it wasn’t like, go sit in pews, and get like, talked at, it was called …Resurrection Life Church. So it’s like, it’s more of a modern type church. I mean, they had an on-stage band that used like guitars and drums and all that. Yeah, I mean it was like Christian based but it wasn’t like what I would think of as a “traditional” church where we went to like a Baptist church then a traditional Christian church then we went to Resurrection Life. , so anyway, and we had it with those…we had some bad things happen like my mom, when she was going through a divorce with my biological dad was actually why we got kicked out of the Baptist church because they don’t believe, , in divorce. Or at least that particular church didn’t believe in divorce unless it was the man leaving the woman. They believed that the woman couldn’t leave the man. So anyway we got kicked out of that one. So anyway, overall as a kid I never really like religion, I never really got exposed to, you know, the good side of religion. , so then like, like growing up, you know, I started looking into for myself and I decided that I wanted to give it a try again and it was actually last ser that I started going to a church downtown called Saint Marks, and the reason I decided to try them out and like, just open myself up to that again was because they actually display a LGBT flag on the side of their church. , and they are open and completely welcoming to all people. It’s not like “you have to fit our, you know, particular view”, and even though they have , their roots specifically Page 1 �in Catholicism and all that, they think that religion is meant for everybody and it’s not like you have to fit perfectly in line with what this says in order to believe it. So, and I found that great because I’m one of the people where I can believe in something, even it’s not 100% what I am, type thing. Like for me, I have a lot of values that fall in line, like, with Christianity and Catholicism. So, I mean, like, sex before marriage, I really don’t like that idea so stuff like that. So I mean it was just nice for me to find a healthy outlet to be able to just go and see other people who thought that way too and then hear them say, “you know, we’re absolutely fine with that, we’re glad that you, you know, were able to find us and have a place to come and not feel discriminated against” or you know, like, having that feeling of really, that really awkward feeling I guess of like, when you go into a church and it’s like “oh I believe this, this, and this and that’s fine, but then they’re like, and we hate gays.” So then you’re like “oh, hey everybody…” type thing. So, you know, I just didn’t have that feeling, so yeah, I think I am on a really good level with religion right now. , unfortunately my step dad has used religion has a weapon against me because he is 7th Day Adventist and the way I classify them is they are kinda halfway between Judaism and Christianity, so they do a lot of things like oh you can’t eat pork and I’m like well…I eat ham so ok, not gonna work with this religion right away. , and they have really anti-gay views and stuff like that so he uses that, he is at this highest religious point when he tries to discriminate against people like, he’s willing to use any religious excuse to say that person is horrible, unless its him. Then everything is fine. So, if I had just been going off his example, I would have hated religion but since I found it for myself, and something I agree with, over all I am on a good level with religion. I respect people that have strong religious beliefs even if, you know, that they don’t like me because I am glad they have something to believe in. Unfortunately I wish they could see people for the…persons…that they are. Sorry, sometimes my English and grammar suck when I try to make up words, but I wish they would just see people’s sides of it that yes, you can have your beliefs about what I do is wrong, but you shouldn’t hate me as a person. , so, that’s one of the reasons I was so scared in high school because we have more churches than restaurants, so, it was kinda scary the idea that all my friends would be more on the religious side rather than the person side. So yeah. BERKENPAS: When you came to Grand Valley, what kinds of things did you get involved in? CRONK: Let’s see, freshman year I actually moved into one of the traditional dorms called Copeland Living Center. So, I actually, the first thing I got involved with was my Community Council because I was in Student Council in high school, and in middle school, so to me that was like, the most close thing so I just kinda wanted that safe feeling of something familiar, but I also get involved with the LGBT Center right away, my first week of classes actually, I went in and at that point, you were still able to just go in and sit and hang out in the Center but they changed their policy on that just because, , they wanted to become more a professional office where people could come with problems rather than just a ton of people hanging out in there. , Page 2 �so anyway, I started hanging out at the LGBT Center as much as possible because it was just nice to have that feeling of oh, I don’t have to care at all in here. , I also got involved with the group Out and About which is kinda like the GSA here and its open to LGBT students as well as its allies. It’s a social group, their actually the ones who put on the drag show like two weeks ago. , they also do the coming out event around the clock tower where you can like, sign the big door. So yeah, they do a lot of stuff like that, like social things on campus. They’re not really activist related; at least I didn’t think so. But, I mean, I had a lot of fun in there. It wasn’t exactly what I was looking for out of my college experience just because a lot of the people in there, not to say they were bad people but like I said earlier, a lot of them just have more bitter views towards the, you know, straight community or people who don’t accept the LGBT community. I’m not, I’m not looking to hate people about it, it’s like, you know, I find it unfortunate that they feel that way but I just want to do everything I can to just, be nice to them and accept them, where, some of them had views like it’s us against them. That’s the problem, it’s like we can’t have that on both sides. So anyways, I just kinda distanced myself from groups like that or people like that just because, you know, that not what I wanted, that s not how I felt. But I did end up getting involved with the Residence Housing Association, which, I worked with people from all housing areas on campus to put on events and then I, later got involved with Greek Life. I mean, I just found a lot of good outlets for the different things. I mean, through Greek Life I have kinda been able to help with LGBT things too because I mean, through my own fraternity, , I’m actually the one to give the LGBT speech or whatever because , our headquarters says we have to have a meeting based on LGBT civil rights or whatever. It’s not anything big or fancy; it’s just kinda like terminology and stuff like that. So yeah, anyway, Grand Valley just offered so many like new things for me to do and new ways for me to express myself that I tried to take as most advantage of that as possible, especially right away. TUCKER: So how was it joining a frat, because everybody has that stereotypical idea, even if Grand Valley isn’t like that at all? CRONK: Well first of all, I joined a fraternity. I did not join a frat. So that’s something that personally, I have really strong views on because frat is the stereotype. Unfortunately we do have a frat or two on campus but, I am part of a fraternity. But yeah, it was really weird because I believed a lot of the stereotypes going in and I was scared because I thought stuff like hazing and you know, paddling and abuse, and stuff like that, I was worried that was going to happen especially if they found out I was gay. So, when I actually started rushing freshman year, I didn’t bring out, I didn’t deny the fact I was gay, but I definitely didn’t bring out that fact that I was. So, I mean, clearly if someone asked me I would say yes, but if no one asked I didn’t say anything. , and then I found out that’s not what it’s like here at all. , I mean Grand Valley with their strong anti-hazing policies, I mean that clears up 50% of the stereotypes like you know, things that I was scared about right there. , I thought they were going to be very close-minded Page 3 �in the way that, you know, it’s a bunch of straight guys that are testosterone driven, you know, sports, that’s it…type thing. , that wasn’t it at all. I mean I found a place, like with the one I ended up joining, I found a place where it’s like I haven’t played a sport since I joined. I think I participated in one game of ultimate Frisbee before I was like ok that was fun, time to be done. , I mean, in my own fraternity there’s 3 other gay guys so there are a few of us. We’re not a huge number, but our brothers do accept us. When it comes to things like our formals, one of my brothers who is gay ended up bringing a guy as a date and I mean everyone was fine with that. I ended up bringing a guy as a date, and they all treated him just as fine. It’s not like, you know, do you see who he brought? They didn’t care. We were all there to have fun and it was, you know, a date event so they are all very accepting. I mean we, the way my fraternity formed, we actually started it here on campus, Delta Upsilon, wasn’t here until the first semester of my freshman year. So, we ended up, just kinda being thrown together. With some of the fraternities, they are so well established that, you know, they have a mold, and they only recruit people who fit that exact mold, where as for us we were so far out of a mold, like we had people who were at so completely different ends of the spectrum. Like we had really conservative people and some really liberal, so we all kinda got mashed together. We, actually had one brother, I won’t say his name, but he was very against like, you know, gays. He had that view of they are horrible people and they are going to hell, type thing and now just to see the progress he has made after getting to know us, it’s like he has really done a 180. Not that he is like, an ally in the sense that he like, loves gay people and wants to be surrounded by them, but when it comes to us he is not as anti-gay people. So yeah, a lot of things I think I was worried about joining a fraternity and I think things people, , kinda expect that fraternities are going to do like oh, they’re going to hate their gay members, they’re gonna single them out, they’re gonna haze them extra just because whatever, none of that happens. Especially here at Grand Valley, not that I have become aware of anyways and it’s definitely not what I went through. I was very glad to have that, I think I’ve had a great experience and with things like Greek Allies and Advocates that they started now, I mean, they’re just really proving that Grand Valley is a safe place, but also the Greek system is a great place to be yourself. So, I got really fortunate with that overall. [Long Pause] CRONK: I have a question for myself that might help you guys out, how’s that? [Laughter from Group] CRONK: Ok one of things I do get asked is, like when did you know? , like how early or whatever. And, my response to that usually is, because people get it in their mind that either you wake up one morning and all of the sudden it’s like oh my God, I’m gay, I’m gonna be gay now…or, like you’ve known forever and you’ve just been hiding it forever. I’m neither one of Page 4 �those. , like, when I was little, when I say little I mean like 6 or something like that…, is the first memory I have of any, anything to indicate my orientation at the time. It didn’t mean anything to me but looking back I’m like “Oh, well…I wish I had understood what they meant”, you know, way back when because I have an older sister that would let me play with her Barbie dolls. Well, I used to like her Barbie dolls more than she did…like completely, and I used to wanna play with the Barbie herself, and you know, dress her up and all that and my sister kinda didn’t care, like she used to wanna make them fight and stuff. She did a re-enactment of the Real World with Barbie and she made them smack each other and it was like oh, that’s weird but I always wanted to dress them up. , so I mean that didn’t mean anything at the time because you know, I was six and I could play with Barbies if I wanted to, it didn’t matter. But…then I used to just notice, like even at that age I would notice men and like, you know, males more than I would women. You know, at that age I never had any inclination towards women but like, maybe it was because I was a guy I just noticed, like you know, males more in terms of idols or, you know, the shows I watched, I don’t know. At that time again it’s almost like, you know, normal child whatever. , then when I got to the age of 10, maybe 11, …I hadn’t started developed feelings for girls yet. , you know, people at that time had started like dating and I just, wasn’t interested in that. I really didn’t understand why you’d wanna have a girlfriend or anything like that. So… I started to realize that just wasn’t normal because everyone would tell me it wasn’t normal like oh, you know, you’re not developing feelings for women. You know, 13, when my hormones were supposed to be raging and I was supposed to being going gaga over girls and trying to impress them, I just thought I really don’t care, I don’t see what the big deal is. It really wasn’t until I was about 13 or 14 I finally learned what gay was. For me, up until that boy me being more attracted to men was just a feeling but it didn’t have a term, or like a concept behind it…it was just something I felt. It wasn’t until…actually I think it was on TV and they were talking about, something like, gay rights and it was some kind of talking about marriage and you know, men marrying men, and I could relate the idea of marriage like “Oh, a man and a woman love each other they get married and that’s what you call a family.” Then I heard about marriage between two men and they called that gay, and I was like “Oh, well…I eventually want to get married to a man, so wait, what’s gay?” So, one day I went online and looked up gay and of course, Google or whatever search engine, brought up a ton of porn sites and I didn’t really know what that was so I went down and somehow I eventually found out, I think I ended up Webstering gay men and I still had, you know at 13, no idea what that meant. , but it just kinda attached a label to it…so, that was really my first exposure to what gay was. I went from being, you know, a normal kid that had feelings to who I was attracted to, to a kid that was gay and attracted to men, type thing. So, you know, that’s weird I kinda stopped being innocent on the idea of, you know, what LGBT is and all that and kinda of, moving into more 14/15 is when I was really getting ready to come out because it was really starting to build up like that’s who I really was, like I could identify my own feelings and I was starting to relate to Page 5 �them, finally. So that’s when I like, truly became a gay male more or less, because I had started to accept myself for that. [Ryan laughs] Ryan continues: And then I hit like, 16, when I came out. I actually came out as a bi-sexual. I talked to my mom like “Listen, I’m gay but I’m actually like, bi.” because I wanted to be at least bi, because it was like if I can’t be straight then at least let me be bi because, like, I can try to fit in by dating girls and stuff like that and…that was a complete like, kinda wish I had but then I realized I was gay. I didn’t like both, I just liked men so that was kinda like, that was kinda the transition I went through…”I’m not straight, maybe I’m bi, no I’m gay.” type thing. TUCKER: So how active are you? Like, with your rights and stuff, do you…I don’t know how to say what I’m thinking I guess… CRONK: Do I march in parades and wave rainbow flags? TUCKER: Yeah, well…you know what I mean, not to be stereotypical… CRONK: No, I know exactly what you mean. That’s …I’m really not, actually… to be honest, I’m just not an activist in general with like, anything. For me, the way I…promote my rights and the way I try to like, bridge that gap of inequality is by doing stuff like this. I try to sit down with people and just say “Listen, this is who I am, I’m really not any different from you…” well compared to you guys I guess I am… [Laughter from Group] Ryan continues: “I’m not really any different from you…I like men, I go to school, you know, I work, you know…” stuff like that, it’s like, I’m a normal person, I just happen to be a male that likes men. That’s a very small piece of who I am, but people like look at that like “Oh my God, that’s your entire life.” No, it’s not. So, …that’s really where I would consider myself an activist for gay rights is I try to break the stereotypes on a one-on-one basis with people and like, just because I’m gay doesn’t mean I have a lisp, doesn’t mean that I, you know, that I dress like a girl or really stylish, it’s like, I shop at Meijer, you know, I shop at American Eagle if I can afford it…which I can’t, so it’s like, you know, I’m not top of the line, I don’t ever see myself being a Lady Gaga…whatever, so you know, I like her music but I really prefer country so it’s like, all the things that people say “Oh you’re gay so you like…” I’m like “No, sorry.” [Laughter from Group] Ryan continues: So yeah, it’s like…I’m not really an activist but I try to, I try to just be real with people and hope that that will have the same affect because I think that “kill them with Page 6 �kindness” is way better than shoving my views in someone else’s face and saying “now change”. TUCKER: So maybe on like, the smallest scale…like, more individual level? CRONK: Yeah, I’m the smallest scale activist you’ll ever see. But I think I am one of the most effective, I would hope because like, I mean, I’ve seen with a lot of my friends, like, they think they don’t like gay people and they meet one and they’re like “Oh, you’re a real person…ok, I like gay people now.”. It’s like “There you go, see? That’s all it took.” So instead of like, the big parades…I mean, that’s great, I’m not against it, but I don’t need that to be proud of who I am, you know, my orientation and what I’ve been through, …but I’m sure some people do and if that’s how they find it best to, you know, try to make a change in the world, I want them to go for it, but you won’t see me doing that. [Ryan laughs] NOWAK: Do you think that like, the parades are effective in getting the point out? That’s it’s not really a bad thing? To be gay? [Ryan hesitates] Ryan he: I almost want to say no, and hopefully anyone that hears or reads this will not take offensive to that, just because …just like with any parade, you go out to a parade because you already believe in it or you already support it. You don’t really go out to a parade to have your mind changed politically, socially, whatever. So, I mean, it’s great that they’re making an appearance and saying, “Listen, this issue is very real, you know, you can’t say they are no gay people in Michigan because we’re here and there’s no gay people in the U.S., no, we’re here and you know, we are a thriving community and we are a culture.” However, I think some people over do it and I think some people try to use those as a tool to like, put their views on other people and that’s kinda, shooting itself in the foot just because if you’re forcing someone to think a way, they’re going to resist it. I mean, I went through it where people were trying to force the heterosexual lifestyle on me and I was like “No.” I was resistant to it and I didn’t want that and , I think that stuff like, you know, the gay pride parades, even some of just making people, you know, look at certain posters every day, I mean, to me that can be overstepping a boundary and like, putting your views on someone else. Why would we want to do that when we’re trying to fight it ourselves? So, I mean, I know they have a place and they are good, but sometimes to me they can get over the top. Like, what people try to do with them and what people try to show with them. I don’t know; personal view. [Ryan laughs] Page 7 �TUCKER: Do you ever see like, a changing coming? Because you said there is bias like both ways, like the gay community kinda resents the straight community for like, resenting them and it just sounds like a vicious cycle. Do you ever see a change? [Ryan sighs and pauses] CRONK: I would hope that there will be someday where like, the middle is just met by everyone and like, one day both sides will just… [Ryan sighs again] CRONK: I hate to say it this way so just completely understand what I’m about to say. It’s like, I think if one side, like the more hetero side in general would kinda lower their guard and be like, less outspoken, then I think the LGBT community could meet them by lowering theirs and then, you know. BUT, that’s not to say that, it’s…the heterosexual community’s fault that we resent them, have something against them, you know, because it’s not. There’s just as many accepting hetero people that get discriminated against by the LGBT community I’m sure, as there is the other way around. Just because, I mean…people are going to believe what they want to and they’re going to think what they want to based off from how they were raised. So, I think that, if everything works out perfect, I think someday compromise will be reached where everyone is going to realize that it’s like, we’re all just trying to live a life that’s fulfilling, you know, and whatever that means, I mean if that means getting married, I think that someday, you should be able to get married no matter who you are. But I also think that, you know, if you don’t want to, because like, that’s where the thing that bugs me too is that, people automatically assume that every gay person wants to get married and that’s our top issue. It’s like, I personally do want to get married someday, but that’s not the top thing I think about when I wake up is, “Oh, I’m gonna try to get gay marriage, you know, to be accepted because I want to get married someday.” It’s like, well it would be really nice, but I could live without it. At least right now I think I could live without it, …but anyway. I mean, I think someday there will be a compromise, and I think people will just realize that we’re all the same and we just need to accept that from now on. So, and maybe, who knows, you know a lot of the studies that we talked about in Milt’s class actually show that our generation is way more accepting than our parents were and they were way more accepting than their parents were, so it’s like, as long as that trend continues, I think that we’re all going to be happy in the future someday. So, I mean there will always be that small pocket that don’t, and there’s always going to be that small pocket of people who don’t like those people for that reason, but in general I think, you know, it’s gonna go down more and more, I mean it has been for generations. So, I hope at least. [Ryan laughs] Page 8 �NOWAK: I feel like you just keep answering my questions. I make a question in my head and then you answer it. [Laughter from Group] TUCKER: I know, I was so gonna ask like, “Oh, do you think it’s like, decreasing by generation?” [Ryan jokes] CRONK: Yeah, I’ve done this a time or two. [More laughter from Group] CRONK: How about another question for myself? Okay! [Group laughs again] CRONK: Like, just kinda, what are my plans for the future? Like, right now its fine that I’m doing all of this stuff in college but where do I see this taking me? Or how do I feel like I’m going to react once I’m out in the real world? Alright, well! To answer that question… [Laughter from Group] CRONK: Ok. Alright well Here’s what I think is. Well I’m really not sure at least this semester I’m trying to make it through college and really the rest of my life will happen but so far I want to go into the peace corp. because in my life I feel like I’ve been given a lot just like you know I’ve gotten a lot of opportunity in my life and I want to go give back as much as possible and through the peace corps. I can do that. It’s been something I’ve aspired to do since I was in high school and after that I either want to stay in a foreign country like I’ve always, It’s always kind of been my plan to move out of the United States because of the policy that you know is I can’t get married unless I stay and live in Massachusetts and you know a couple of other states, but it’s like when I can only be legally married in four states or something like that it’s not the right county for me type thing. I eventually want to move and live in a foreigner nation full time, not sure which one yet just because I kind of want to see where life take me. You know how I like things, and I may go into the Peace Corps and find out the United States is awesome and that I just want to stay here forever and if I were to stay in the US I’d probably wind up on the East Coast just because I mean I’ve been to Washington D.C. before. It’s like I haven’t really visited the West Coast too much and I don’t know much about the West Coast, But I love the like history of the East Coast with all the colonial you know heritage it has. I’d probably wind up there because I know that I could be happy there and there is a lot of things there that I could enjoy so yeah. That and I don’t ever intend on one day being a huge activist. I don’t plan on someday growing up and leading one of the parades or anything, but I just hope someday to always be someone others can come to like to find out more like in a business someday Page 9 �whether I run a business because I’m kind of considering into looking into that still or whether I just work for a business I want to be involved somehow in like the HR side where I could be I don’t know one of the people in the office that is open to work issues related to the LGBT community because at least here in Michigan there is not many I think Grand Valley is one of the few actually public universities that embraces LGBT community in the way of that they have the equal partner rights or partner benefits or whatever. , but it seems like Grand Rapids actually do have city things on the book that make it so businesses don’t necessarily have to keep LGBT people but overall it’s not a reason that they would necessarily fire you I mean not every single one, but there are a good number of them so that’s encouraging. So anyway I would want to be someone in a business like that. That just can help relate between maybe people who don’t understand why this is a problem in the workplace to those who are like going through it and kind of facing that. So I don’t plan on making a career out of being gay, but hopefully I could use it to help my future career so. NOWAK: Do you think that like Grand Valley and like Grand Rapids in general like accepts like in the workplace a lot of that stuff? Are they getting better? CRONK: I say Grand Valley is definitely like I am completely on the Grand Valley bandwagon when it comes to like equal rights for people of all gender and ethnicities stuff like that. There amazing. Grand Rapids I haven’t had much experience like I lived in the bubble of Coopersville so and then I’ve kind of lived in the bubble of Grand Valley, but when I lived in Grand Rapids this ser I did apply for jobs and I didn’t hide the fact that I was gay and I ended up not getting hired at them. So I mean, not to say the oh I applied for this job and I didn’t get it because I was gay but it’s like “Oh maybe that’s just you know not as good that I was willing to say that you know to them,” but if I don’t get a job because I am gay I am completely ok with that. I mean that’s not something that should determine like with fuel me being gay doesn’t affect how the sandwiches I make turn out. I mean it means nothing like maybe if I was working in, I don’t even know what that would affect. I can’t even think of a job that that would influence my performance. So anyway, so but I mean with the night life I mean with the couple of gay clubs in Grand Rapids and just the fact there aren’t a lot of bias incidents that I’ve heard that have happened in the Grand Rapids area where a homosexual person being beaten in the street or something like that. I mean, it makes me really comfortable with being gay you know even in the Grand Rapids area and with such the Hipster you know trend that’s coming out in Grand Rapids I means there’s more people that are not caring on a like community basis so I mean coffee shops, it doesn’t matter who goes to it, you’re going to have a good time. (Whispering) NOWAK: going back to like you wanting to go to the Peace Corps do you worry a lot about your mom like leaving or do you just feel like you just need to progress? Page 10 �CRONK: I do, this is actually the first year I have lived outside the home with from the family, I actually live in a house here in Allendale now, and it’s like yeah I worry she’s still- has medical problems that I found out like yesterday she had three seizures in one day and that was like 3 or 4 weeks ago and I am just finding out about it. So it’s like stuff like that worries me and I do spend time like thinking about whether I made the right decision leaving, but I completely believe in my independence because I want to take care of her but at the same time I have obligations to myself that I have to kind of fulfill. Because like living at home I would go to class and then I would go home, and then I might do a few of my fraternity activities, but that was mainly it, I wasn’t able to like spend, I wouldn’t be able to go out all weekend and stay with friends. It would be I’d have to come home because mommy and daddy are still you know checking on you and stuff like that wondering where you are. I didn’t have a car, so I would borrow my moms, so there was that and so kind of like yeah I believe that I know I have a lot of things that like between what- where I am now and where I want to go as a person, moving out was a major step but yeah I still have that worry what happens I’m not there and what should I be doing as a good son to like take care of that. Because I still believe in the old fashioned idea of like the children should take care of their parents. Just like in general like I don’t like the idea of retirement homes, like I wish that my family had been able to have like my grandma move in with us and like stay with us because she could have taken care of us while my parents were at work and stuff like that, but our society doesn’t necessarily believe that anymore so I’m kind of stuck in the old fashion idea of it, but so but I see that eventually I do want my mom to move in with me like when I’m older you know once a have an established job. I’ll probably be forty or something before any of that can happen, but I do eventually intend on like at least my mom moving back in with me when she gets older. It’s nice because I can go out and party and not worry about it anymore. I finally enjoyed spending time with friends all weekend and not worrying who I’m going home to at night because my roommates and all that are doing just as much like they’re gone just as much as I am… CRONK: Crazy roommates. [Laughter from Group] CRONK: Rachael, how has your stuff with relationships been working out? Rachel: My what, oh, what? CRONK: Dating. Rachel: Yeah, How has relationships been working out for you? CRONK: Well actually I have never had a gay relationship, and I’ve been out since junior year of high school and it’s my junior year of college. Yeah anyway, that’s another thing that when it comes to stereotypes is that “Oh, we’re whores” more or less like that’s one that I’ve heard Page 11 �from my family there like “Oh, are you just going to sleep around?” Now I’m like “No, I still have values.” , so yeah it’s like one of those stereotypes is that the LGBT community is just full of whores and you know we don’t really care about having long term relationships we just kind of want to have fun “Hit it and quit it” you know whole thing. That is not what I believe at all, and I always like- it kind of sickens me the idea of “hit it and quit it” it’s like sorry no that’s not what I want for myself and that’s not what we want in general. , I do want to be in a relationship like especially in college and that’s one of the things that has been challenging is even though I have taken this whole process of coming out and like being comfortable with myself and I still haven’t found that someone, and like everyone says “Oh yeah, first of all with high school is where you know can learn about dating for the real world.” Well then when I came to college everyone’s like “oh yeah, this is where you should be able to just you know date whatever and if you break up with someone well it really won’t matter that much because there’s plenty of other options.” And I’m like “Thanks. I love hearing that” because I haven’t dated anyone even though I’m willing to it’s not like I’m sitting there reading a book saying all the time “oh no I just don’t want to be in a relationship.” Like if I could get into a relationship right now I would. Unfortunately it’s one of the struggles I face even here at Grand Valley is just the idea of there’s still not a lot of opportunity. Like I came from a place where there was no opportunity for dating and no there’s opportunity I just don’t get that opportunity to. So , and that has played a big part in some of the struggles I’ve had a Grand Valley just because it kind of wears you down at least for me because I am very social. I’m very much very much like- I’m vested in other people and I just wish I had that one special person that was just kind of a relationship for me where all the relationships I have right now are like friends, business or my business fraternity like brothers, my social fraternity brothers, all that. It’s all things where I give 100% and I might get something back. And I just want that feeling of always getting you know always getting something back from someone else and not really having to try. So it’s like, that’s one of the struggles that I would say I still face is just that feeling of I still feel like it kind of like it wasn’t worth it coming out and all this because yeah I have good self-esteem now but I haven’t really gotten everything I want out of it, and even though to me it feels like it should be a really small thing to get back, it’s been a really big problem so I mean just that. I found here at Grand Valley this is personal experience I sure if you talk to a million- you know or if you talk to every gay person on campus it would be a different story, but for me it’s been because I didn’t date in high school like men at least that people- other gay men here on the campus aren’t really open to dating me just because I don’t have the experience or there’s the other half that because I’m not a whore they don’t want to date me because they want whores to date more or less. So it’s like it’s a really bad reflection on us because it’s like the people that do just sleep around perpetuate the stereotype that all we do is just sleep around but unfortunately I’ve found here you know that I fall in a really weird middle of, I haven’t really dated and slept around and because I haven’t dated and slept around that people just don’t want to date me, and I’m like Page 12 �“How does that work?” Like you would think somewhere there would be you know people that would say “Wow, that’s really great I’m really happy about that,” but so far I haven’t found any. TUCKER: So it’s not a matter of like meeting people like meeting other guys it’s just like more of like your morals don’t match sometimes? CRONK: Kind of. I guess I don’t know. I know a very small group of the gay community here at Grand Valley just because the ones I met through the center and those were pretty much all of those were the ones that were like angry more or less about what they’ve been through, and I was like “Ok, so that kind of disqualifies all those people right there.” And then the Greek men that I’ve met that are gay and yeah, there kind of the ones that are the whole they enjoy their freedom, let’s just put it that way, more than so it’s not like I’ve met every gay person here on campus, but the one’s I have, yeah, things just haven’t worked out. So , but with- I work technically five jobs and all that so it’s like I don’t really have time to go out and meet everybody, and the few sources I have found that kind of get my name out there are not exactly the most respectable ones. So , I wish I could just meet people that are more like myself in the way ones like you would never suspect are gay until you find out “Oh, they’re gay” type thing, and I don’t get to meet a lot of people like that. NOWAK: Do you think they are a lot of people who like struggle with that? Like just not like obviously there’s not that many at Grand Valley because you haven’t found… CRONK: Yeah, I would think there are. I mean I would to think there’s a lot of people kind of just like me except they’re not as vocal about you know about who they are. , where yeah, I mean they probably came from the same type of background, raised here whether in Michigan or another form of the Bible Belt where it’s like they never got to experience that before and even though they have the opportunity here I’m sure they have friends who are really supportive of them, but just in general they still kind of keep to the idea that it’s not accepted because everywhere but Grand Valley like Grand Valley is kind of a little dot in the middle of a lot of hate, a lot of backwards policies. , so anyway, I’m sure they are thinking long term like kept that to themselves, like self-preservation I would say, and that kind of makes me sad because I know some- I know one person in particular where they’re kind of in the denial phase that they’re still straight. Anyway, so high school, but. [Laughter from Group] CRONK: Sorry, but anyway. They , it’s like that person in particular I wish they would realize how ok it is to go through that process now because once they get out of here it’s going to be twenty times harder. Like if it’s challenging now, it’s going to be even harder once you get out there and you know you don’t have that small island that we have here of acceptance and freedom to try- like because you know even that group out and about, I mean I Page 13 �didn’t like it but I at least had the opportunity to try to be around like minded people, and you know so, , I’ll be really sad if people don’t get to take advantage of that before they leave here, and I mean I think it would be really hard to try to after seeing that even if they weren’t a part of it to try to go through the process in a group of- area that is not accepting you know like it is here. NOWAK: Do you think that it could be also that there are just like people who are like on the fence kind of who don’t really want to come out and are just kind of timid about it? Like CRONK: I’m sure there is a large population of that too. , I mean it’s a choice. For me it was a choice that was a no brainer to make, but I am sure it was- there is a struggle for a lot of people that, I mean you’re literally changing your life even though you’re not really changing anything about yourself, you’re changing how other people are going to see you. , and it’s something that I wish more people could relate to just the idea of, to a certain extent you have to give up everything you know, everything you’re comfortable with. , because you really do have to redefine everything you know when it comes to like, like how you act towards other people may completely change, like how you’re willing to act towards other people. , so I definitely remember and understand what it’s like to be one of those that- it’s just a struggle to say “is it worth it? Should I?” because there is so much good that could come from it, but there’s a lot of bad you have to acknowledge when making you know that choice of- because when I say choice I don’t think being gay is a choice it’s acknowledging on a like external basis that you’re gay is where the choice comes in. So, I was born gay or I was you know whatever. On a fundamental human level I was always gay, and the reason I chose to be gay was because I chose to let other people know. I didn’t choose to you know perpetuate the façade that I was straight, and like I think a lot of people haven’t got to that point yet. You know, they’re not comfortable enough; they don’t have enough incentive yet. I mean I know people who were raise in an area that was actually accepting of gays, some of them still haven’t come out. They have come out to a couple people, but they still haven’t come out in general. Just because there is no incentive, people already accept who they are, gay or not. So they’re like “Why should I come out when I’m not?” Where I felt like people weren’t accepting me for who I truly was so for me the incentive was to come out and say “Well listen, you can take me or leave me for who I actually am not who I’m pretending to be.” So I mean maybe some people just need more incentive and maybe that’s- someday they’ll want a relationship and it’s like well now I need to say you know “Oh, I’m gay. I’m going to date people now.” And when I say gay I kind of incorporate LGBT with that. I’m sorry I’ve been using that over and over, but that’s the one I relate to most, because I am. So, like yeah I’m kind of using gay as a blanket term for homosexual. So anyway, sorry. Page 14 �TUCKER: You kind of touched on this, but like let’s say a student twenty years from now. Is your biggest advice to get active and like not deny yourself like to get involved in groups so you can be a part of it? Or what would you say? I know it’s a big question. CRONK: No I, yeah that’s great. I mean, if someone is listening to this twenty years from now and having to decide whether to make that choice or not I would hope they’d just decide to do what’s best for them because that’s you know I that’s really vague and it’s like but it’s that’s the only way that we can do this. I’ve heard stories of people being forced to come out. Like they’ve confided in someone and then that person spread it to like their entire high school and so the person was forced, and that’s a horrible experience. I mean they were completely crushed. They had to go to counseling for stuff like that. So I would never want to be that way, but and I know some people wouldn’t be comfortable like me where it’s just like “Oh, if you ask me I’m going to tell you the truth.” So, I mean just do what’s right for you. I know at the beginning of my process I printed out pictures of men I found attractive and my way of getting it back is I had a folder of these pictures underneath my bed, and that was enough for a while for me because then I felt like “Oh, you know I can look at attractive men without being weird,” you know like people seeing or whatever. , and if that’s enough for people start with that, you know , start reading you know stories by gay authors with gay characters. Watch Modern Family you know that has a gay couple and the daughter Willy. I mean you know whatever, just small steps like that can make you feel better about yourself and help you decide you know if you’re like ready. If you’re you know, if this is how you want to go. Because I mean the gay lifestyle, I consider it- there to be a gay lifestyle. I know there’s controversy that saying “You know, no there’s a human lifestyle, part of it just happens to be gay.” To me there is a gay lifestyle; I mean we are our own culture. And I mean some people may find it’s just not for them, I mean there are things that I know I don’t agree with you know when it comes to like the practices of LGBT people and stuff like that. So it’s like maybe they’ll just find out in general that they don’t want to be associated with that at all. You know if that’s where their feelings are they may just find it’s easier and better for them like especially if they are really religious and their religion really doesn’t support it. You know, I just hope they would do what they feel is best because at the end of the day you have to make yourself happy. and this is one of those things that you definitely have to be comfortable with yourself in order to embrace it like in order to go through it because there is a lot of challenge that you have to get over ii and sometimes like I would lay in bed at night and the only thing that like made it all worth it was the thought that’s I’m finally doing what’s best for me, not for what’s necessarily better for everyone else. So , Hopefully that answered it. TUCKER: Yeah CRONK: I’m Sorry. Page 15 �TUCKER: No, it’s ok. CRONK: mind. Sometimes I feel like I talk in circles, but I swear it’s all irrelevant in my [Laughter from Group] TUCKER: Is there anything we haven’t talked about yet that you want us to know, want everyone to know I guess? CRONK: Not really, I mean I don’t know. It’s not like even though I’m gay and like obviously I have the normal human desires. I want to date someone and stuff like that. It’s not really something I think about on a daily basis anymore like when I was coming out it was. It used to be a really big point in my life, but I mean since I’ve gone through the process and since I consider myself growing up I mean I would hope I am always becoming more mature like every day. , it’s just another piece of who I am. It’s not the whole puzzle. So , I just hope that people get to see that. I hope more people get to understand that you know being gay is not a bad thing. I mean, it has depending on your religion, depending on your raising it may not be the best thing, but I don’t think I’m going to hell. You know, I think and if I am going to go to hell it’s because I have done a lot of other things that are going to put me there. This isn’t one of those things. , and hell, man if I go to hell for that I hope I get to date there I mean I won’t have a problem meeting people. So, got to look for the silver lining in it. So I mean, you know whatever , and I think I do enough good things on this earth, you know, to the god I know and the god I believe in see’s that and you know puts it on a scale you know. So , I can’t think of anything else. NOWAK: a half. I don’t know if we have anything else to add. We’ve got like a house and TUCKER: Do you feel good about it? CRONK: I love it. I am glad you guys are doing this. I’m glad your teacher is getting you guys involved because I mean I can’t speak from the heterosexual side, but I mean hopefully you guys are at least learning something, getting a new prospective. NOWAK: Yeah. TUCKER: Yeah, definitely. [Group discusses project technicalities] Page 16 �CRONK: Ok, cool. [Ryan laughs]. So no, I’m glad you guys are doing this it really makes me feel good to like see that maybe so- and I like the idea that maybe I’m making a difference for somebody someday somewhere, so. I like it, good ego boost for the day. [Laughter from Group] NOWAK: Well thanks for sharing everything. TUCKER: Yeah, thank you. CRONK: Absolutely, thank you guys for having me. END OF INTERVIEW Page 17 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9287ae8463ff36b9929ea3d942fd506e.mp3 f1d07e747adb87cca5749ae00abdd331 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Civil rights--Michigan--History Personal narratives Oral histories African Americans--Personal narratives Gays--Personal narratives Lesbians--Personal narratives Bisexual people--Personal narratives Transgender people--Personal narratives Veterans--Personal narratives Women--Personal narratives People with disabilities--Personal narratives Muslims--United States--Personal narratives Hispanic Americans--Personal narratives Homophobia Discrimination Islamophobia Stereotypes (Social psychology)--Upper Penninsula (Mich.) Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history recordings documenting the history of civil rights and social justice advocacy in Western Michigan. The collection was created by faculty and students as a project of the LIB 201 (formerly US 201): "Diversity in the U.S." course from 2011-2012. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Brooks College of Interdisciplinary Studies Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral History Project (GV248-01) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-05-02 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV248-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1930-2011 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV248-01_Cronk_Ryan Title A name given to the resource Ryan Cronk audio interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Cronk, Ryan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tucker, Kalle Berkenpas, Rachael Nowak, Tyler Description An account of the resource Ryan Cronk is a student at Grand Valley State University, double majoring in Accounting and Economics. Ryan is an active member of the LGBT community as well as the Delta Upsilon fraternity. Ryan passionately works to educate others on LGBT issues within the Grand Valley community. He discusses religion and what it is like to be a gay male at Grand Valley State University. Subject The topic of the resource Civil rights--Michigan--History Gays--Personal narratives Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Relation A related resource Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-12-02 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cabb59e24187dc3416ceb2f41abd7f4f.mp4 3b8415f00523fae7434383345a5646f9 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/779fd868709f0ac07ddd2682bd99da73.srt 7fe7177b1ecec1c38e86b50497e17436 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2020-04-02_ElliottRyan_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Elliott, Ryan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020-04-02 Title A name given to the resource Ryan Elliot video journal, Part 1 Description An account of the resource Video journal of Ryan Elliott, GVSU electrical engineering student, and his fiancée Shay, during the COVID-19 pandemic. In this video, Ryan discusses the transition to online classes at GVSU. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f76ea500277d75dc93478b3b3bb266f3.mp4 17f2c5f8041cbcce7980a9a225169675 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/10f3628503831af997828da5041d3b01.srt e91d317b173abeb7e891decfe6d22899 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2020-04-02_ElliottRyan_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Elliott, Ryan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020-04-02 Title A name given to the resource Ryan Elliot video journal, Part 2 Description An account of the resource Video journal of Ryan Elliott, GVSU electrical engineering student, and his fiancée Shay, during the COVID-19 pandemic. In this video, Ryan discusses co-ops, job loss, and the change in future plans for their wedding. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/917dcd3dbc656a5b6155116b17188a86.mp4 c5e65e285e349bb2904e2d26d11619bd https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0e255efddea9a080a6913786ebf1e510.srt 9d5e6547a7aff5b574721447ba6725bc Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2020-04-02_ElliottRyan_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Elliott, Ryan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020-04-02 Title A name given to the resource Ryan Elliot video journal, Part 3 Description An account of the resource Video journal of Ryan Elliott, GVSU electrical engineering student, and his fiancée Shay, during the COVID-19 pandemic. In this video Shay discusses her work in health care, and Ryan talks about his church involvement and the changes they have experienced due to social distancing. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/59b1c530f58ee9f853ccc8bbb7f1055a.mp4 1eee58c4aef5c5ebf30dc5cea7484583 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/281617373dd38e8f203ce065cf494ee2.srt d973bdbdd9be8f590998f140ef30ff21 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2020-05-08_ElliottRyan_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Elliott, Ryan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020-05-08 Title A name given to the resource Ryan Elliot video journal, Part 4 Description An account of the resource Video journal of Ryan Elliott, GVSU electrical engineering student, during the COVID-19 pandemic. In this video, Ryan gives updates about work and church. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8db930010dde3b494f4aaed7df2e408a.mp4 db0693c92616a9e645c3da8b61d7b7e5 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2ce4b4fae1e1a40e658d51016630104d.srt 62145737033d6a06b3e1ba9144bd1115 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2020-05-08_ElliottRyan_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Elliott, Ryan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020-05-08 Title A name given to the resource Ryan Elliot video journal, Part 5 Description An account of the resource Video journal of Ryan Elliott, GVSU electrical engineering student, during the COVID-19 pandemic. In this video, Ryan gives updates about his upcoming wedding plans, politics, and the governor's stay at home order. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/30bab714fd037580575d11602b87994c.mp4 b5b7b1788f3cc51e692762f4e0d81305 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/18f03c433728187771468f5ee7118b7f.pdf 2c89bbe207117fea4c2a37772d1c995a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Vietnam, Cold War Interviewee: Paul Ryan Length of Interview: 01:45:49 Background:                 He was born in Brooklyn, NY, in 1952 He lived in Brooklyn until he was 3 years old. Then his family would move to Long Island and live there until his first year of high school. He would then move to Manhattan. He would attend Xavier High School, a Roman Catholic day school and participation in the military was compulsory. This was junior army ROTC at the time, and throughout his four years of high school he would participate in this. He would graduate in 1971. At the time, the military service would be made voluntary for people. And it would be a concern for the school to continue operating as a military compulsory school, given what was going on in Vietnam. If things changed, it would be a huge deal, as they had to wear uniforms to class every day. The kids who attended his school would have many different opinions of the war in Vietnam. There was no overwhelming opinion one way or the other. Interestingly enough, his school would be located near Greenwich Village, Manhattan, the NY center of “hippiedom” This hippie sort of lifestyle would affect the kids and their opinions, but more than that is the fact that the kids and their parents would see things very differently because they are simply individuals with different points of view. Those who would be in favor of the war would find themselves in a higher rank than those who didn’t. Those who did not favor the war would take their feelings of the war and basically place them on the military as well. Because of this, they did not achieve such a good military position. Living near the Village, he would have to walk through it. He was called fascist a few times and you were very noticeable because of your uniform. He had to use public transportation every day to get to school. He never had an issue with it though. People would mostly look at you funny, but nothing harmful was ever said or done. It was only going through Greenwich Village when he had the trouble and even then it was only occasionally. They learned to avoid the places that gave them too much trouble. (5:40) Although there was no official obligation for the student to go into the military after they graduated, some did. Those who had done well and found it interesting, like he did, would go on to some sort of military service. This may not have been a military career. The school was an all-male school, and still is today. �  Most of the men who graduated from the school would go into some sort of officer’s school. When he graduated, he decided to join ROTC. Training School (7:30)                  He thought about flying, but decided that he didn’t like that too much. That left the choice between the Army and the Navy. What would help him make his decision would be an extra-curricular activity that he joined in high school. In this, he would do drills and shoot rifles and they were pretty good at it. One of the teams that he competed against was the Navy ROTC unit out of Villanova. The guys there would be Navy and Marine Officers and he thought they were really cool. So he applied and was accepted at Villanova, for a Navy ROTC scholarship. However, at the last minute, his advisor convinced him to change to Notre Dame, which would have a little bit better academic level. He would begin at Notre Dame, in the ROTC Navy unit in 1971. For him, moving from NY to South Bend came with some condescension. Being a big city boy, he felt he was really coming down the ladder. This would change rather quickly when he actually started school. The level of academic performance was much more than he had ever thought it would be and he would spend so much time on his education that he simply did not have time to ponder on the notion that he was at the edge of the world. (10:00) This would keep them out of trouble for the most part as well, though they did party some. He and his buddies did have an understanding that school was not going to be easy, so they spent most of their time studying rather than partying. While there he would learn the basics of the basics. Left-face, right-face, and all of those other things that are needed to work for the military. They would also take academic courses. Usually some 3-hour courses were the norm, followed by physical training, though not like today. Other than that participation and keeping their hair relatively short, they were just like anybody else there on campus. The number of ROTC participants was a small enough number that they would not have to keep them separated from the rest of the school population. There were some days when he had to wear his uniform for half a day. Other than that, he was just like any other undergraduate at college. He really grew to like the life as well. Because of the feelings some people had from Vietnam, some ROTC programs were removed from colleges. On other campuses, the ROTC participants would be harassed by other people opposed to the war. When he was in college, he learned about a story that had happened about a year before he got there. A group of people had gathered in front of the administrator’s building and was protesting about war in general. The president of the university came out of his office and informed the students that they had 15 minutes to disperse or they would be expelled. �      Without so much as a whimper of “this is unfair treatment,” they had all gone. For the four years he was there, there were only 2 visible protests that he can recall happening. One was when he was walking to the ROTC building and someone had spray-painted graffiti all over the side of the building in response to some world event, he can’t remember which. The second time, he was in class and movement had caught the corner of his eye. Outside the window, there was a group of protesters with signs protesting against the Yom-Kipper War, which happened in October 1973. It was over before he got out of class. By the time he graduated in 1975, the Vietnam War would basically be over. (16:20) At that point, because retaining people in the armed forces had been such a task, he would be placed in the Navy and not the Navy Reserves, for almost 5 years. Training in San Diego (17:40)                Two weeks before he graduated, he would get his orders to go out to San Diego. He had a number of training courses that he was required to partake in, which would last about six months. He had 10 days leave and went home to visit. When it was time to head out to San Diego, he would take a plane to Cornado. From there he would spend from June until December going to different schools and going through different courses learning about all the things he would need to know for his job. The first school, the longest one, was called “Surface Warfare Officer’s School Basic Course” and had only been established a couple years before by the navy. Although they would have some time in the summer to learn how to be aboard a ship, this was not enough, and so they would have to attend this class. Here, they would learn how to do many things, from steering a ship to doing paperwork. They would learn about the make-up of the ship, the rules of the Navy, how the ship is balanced. They would also learn, and practice running different drills with simulators. They would have to understand a tactical strategy, which does not necessarily mean combat situations. Even in a simulated environment, people get stressed, voices are raised in order for you to get the most attention and it can end in disaster sometimes. It takes a lot of practice for you to learn, even in a simulation, to try to keep calm and have each person play their part without things getting out of hand. (21:55) He would also get training in biochemical warfare, which everyone had to know. Eventually he would get special training for his job, which was the Combat Information Center Officer. The Combat Information Center is where the various systems, such as weapons, radar, etc. information of the ship go to. From here, the officer would have to decide on how these ships systems need to be employed tactically. He would also have collateral duties that he would have. When he got to his ship, he would be part of a small crew, 280 enlisted and 12 officers. He would serve on a destroyer. �          There were not so many on the ship because the Navy was conducting an experiment to see if a ship could run on 80% of the crew. Short answer: it didn’t work. With a crew that small, you are expected to do other things. His duty was to act as a legal officer. His ship was too small for a JAG officer, so he would take a course for a month learning how to be a non-lawyer legal officer. He would learn much more than he did in his previous schooling about the military justice system. He would learn how to investigate crimes that were to be proceeded by a court. He would also learn how to enforce Article 15, which in the Navy is called Office Hours. In this, he would punish minor offenses without having to go to trial. As the legal officer, he was responsible for all the processing of the minor offenses and the handful of court martials that he had to deal with in his three years there. He would also have another collateral duty in which he did not receive any training, which was Narcotics Bulk Custodian. They had a sick bay on the ship, but no doctor. They had a couple of medical corpsmen. In the bay, there was a safe and in there was morphine and other narcotics. Once a month, he would have to go in with a corpsman and inventory what they had. Sure enough it was all still there. There was 30 or 40 miniature bottles of brandy that had been there since the 1960’s. One time, when they were trying to get the ship refueled, it had been kind of a rough night. Water was coming over the bough and things were getting dangerous. As a reward of finishing the job safely, the captain of the ship would break the rules and allow the men to have some of the brandy. But, in order to keep inventory, they had to drink the brandy in the sick bay. They were not allowed to take it back to their room and drink it leisurely. It was the only time, in his career that there was an authorized consumption of alcohol on a ship. Active Duty (29:30)         When he was done with his training, he would be assigned to the ship USS Agerholm. It was the oldest destroyer on active duty in the Navy at the time. It was built in 1946. The ship was named for a Marine who was killed in WWII. As an older vessel, it did not have some of the comforts that some of the other ships had. The propulsion was 1930’s technology. The rest of the ship was 1940’s technology. In the 1960’s, the ship went through a phase called FRAN in which the whole superstructure was taken away and the ship was modified for electronic warfare. Things like radar were added. The ship had 2 5-inch 38 and gun turrets. The aft turret was taken off. Torpedo tubes on the ship were torn off and replaced with anti-submarine rockets. The combination of the weight being removed aft and all the electronic gear being put in the top resulted in an unbalanced ship. This made the ship not ride very well in heavy seas. On the ship, they would have DASH, unmanned, anti-submarine helicopters. They would be sent out to destroy subs or they would come back and report nothing. They �                   ended up have a problem with them, as some of the time they would go over the horizon and have a nasty habit of not coming back. So the project failed. Instead they used the leftover space to refuel manned helicopters. Based on what happened to the ship over its lifetime, there were many odd modifications that happened to the ship. He would serve on the ship for three years. (35:30) He would focus mostly in the area around California, but did make one deployment to the Western Pacific. They left in September 1977 and came back in April of 1978. They made port visits, refuel, resupply and training missions. He would practice naval gunfire support when he was on Maui, Hawaii. A lot of it was repairing and refueling in the Philippines. One of the larger exercises that they had done was 75-80 ships in this enormous formation to practice some tactics. While he was seeing this incredible sight, an older Naval Officer told him that he would never see anything like that again. Which he hasn’t. In fact, he does not know of any naval force of that size being gathered since then. They would visit many places in the Pacific, including Australia. He found an interesting difference between the US people and the Australia. There was not a great appreciation for the US military by its citizens. So much so that when you were there, you did not wear your military uniform. Instead you had to wear civilian clothes everywhere. It was totally different in Australia. You were encouraged to wear your uniform. There was a program where families would sign up to bring a sailor home and make him dinner. Some of the guys would be on the streets, in their whites, and when they pass a bar, the citizens would buy them a drink. The officers and chiefs of his ship were invited to the New Castle City Hall, where the Mayor had an official city welcome for them. They remember and really appreciated what the US Armed Forces had done for them in the past. He and the others were fortunate to reap the benefits of that when they were there. Subic Bay is the banks where the surface ships stop. He had been there during his college cruises. Places along the bay had been come to known as “the wild west” and people did get in trouble. One guy who worked for him, a really good guy, had got really drunk one night. The next morning the man came up to him, worried what had happened the night before. A woman had come forward, saying that they had been married that night and she had the right to become a US citizen. Some of the officers had heard about this happening before and did not think that it was true. So moving as quickly as they could, they got the guy temporary orders off the ship and on a plane out of there in 45 minutes. When the native police came, there was nothing they could do. The shore patrol would be mostly responsible for the ongoing of those soldiers who were on land, but if there was real trouble the men would be brought back to the ship where things would be taken care of there. �                    The leaders of the ship had to take care and teach the junior level soldiers what exactly they could or could not do when they were on the beach. For his ship, the leader told them, “I don’t care what you do on the beach, just not on the ship,” which would lead to a lot of trouble. Thing are different nowadays, of course. Back then, if you got back to the ship hung over, but you could still do your job, you were ok. Things aren’t like that anymore. (44:40) His ship consisted of all males while he served. In fact, they saw very few women in any of the services until after he had left the ship. The ship was decommissioned in 1978, and he had become an instructor at the Surface Warfare Officers School, where he had gone to class. This was 1979, and that was when he first saw women entering the service. He would visit politically sensitive places as well. New Zealand at the time had just ended disputes with the southern alliances. As they were coming to the pier on the southern island, there was a “noise hazard” sign on their ship. One of the civilians on the pier had misread the sign and thought it said “nuclear hazard” and there was a big commotion on the pier. They had to make a Flash communication to Washington, where you spoke directly with Washington, not through the chain of command. This happened when there was anything that had to do with nuclear protests or things of the like. Eventually things did calm down, but things were tense there for a little while. They would also make a visit to Taiwan, before President Carter had changed the diplomatic relationship between the Peoples Republic and Taiwan. When they visited, it was like Australia. They were very much appreciated. A couple of his friends who would serve with him would go back a couple years later after the changes had been made, and they noticed a complete 180 in attitude. They pretty much stayed in the South Pacific for the time he was there. One of the signs of the time, about a year before he became an ensign, the chief of Naval Operations Admiral Zumwalt had made a lot of new about humanize and modernize the Navy. One of the ways he did this was changing the uniform some of the junior officers had to wear to the double breasted uniform that the senior officers had to wear. It was a complete failure. No one liked it and in his 5 years of service, he had only seen 2 people who looked good in it. The crackerjack uniform, they originally had, were easy to store and very adaptable. They were meant for ship use. The coat and tie uniforms were not. There was no place to put them, and there was also a problem with keeping them in a decent temperature. They had to deal with a lot of problems and a lot of messes. Another thing the Admiral did was to allow beards. In his 5 years of service, the same two guys who looked good in the uniforms also looked good in the beards. That was not a wise move. He did grow a beard on deployment. While they visited Tasmania, he had made the front page of the local paper showing kids the anchor system, and there he was in his beard. His superior made him shave it off a couple of weeks later, saying that he had had his 15 minutes of glory. �                      The most important thing he was troubled by was an attempt to handle drug abuse in a different way. Sailors could come forward as marijuana users and not get in trouble, and would be assign to a week’s worth of counseling ashore. This could only happen when they were ashore. Of the 40 men he had to watch over, and he only had a couple of guys who did this. He began to notice that those who came forward basically got a weeklong vacation. They got to sit in an air conditioned room, they didn’t have any duties, etc. while the men who obeyed orders still had to work. There was not a lot of fairness in that. When the Navy went to a no tolerance drug abuse police in the 80’s so that was taken care of. His last 18 months of active duty were as an instructor, in Cornado, where he had gone to school. While he was in the ROTC, he did go on some cruises. In the summer of 1972, he spent 2 months on the USS Leonard S. Mason, which was a destroyer. They spent time as an enlisted person. They went to Hawaii and up and down the west coast. After his junior year, they stayed with some aviation people in Texas for a few weeks and then stayed with some marines in North Carolina. Then after his junior year, he was back to sea again, but this time as an officer. He was on the USS Cleveland, which was a landing platform dock. He spent two months there. He would cross the Equator and become a shellback on the Cleveland, which saved him some trouble when he served on the Agerholm. Crossing the Equator had some ceremonial things to it. They had some stuff happen, which he was sworn to secrecy, but it ended in a cookout. (59:30) When he crossed the Equator with the Agerholm, only 3 of the 12 officers were shellbacks: him, his roommate, and the second in command. So when the initiations began at five in the morning, the captain would join too. He was a real good sport about it. Any participation was strictly voluntary. Since they needed people to run the ship, and only 3 of the officers were shellbacks, he ended up driving the ship. He would be on the bridge with some of the men who did not join in the celebration, despite that they were not shellbacks. You could cut the atmosphere on the bridge with a knife, between the pollywogs and the shellbacks. It’s all good fun and a shared celebration for the people on the ship. For him, those were very vivid memories, and he will always remember them. The Navy had tried to get him to stay when it came time for him to be done with the service. Retention rate was low for the armed forces. For his position that he served, there was retention of about 15%. There was a lot of subtle pressure to stay. His decision to leave didn’t occur to him until he was 18 months during his shore command. His CO at the school was not happy with his decision. This was probably because of the compiled decisions of many of the servicemen to leave. It would be his wife that would eventually make him get out of the service. She was not happy with the Navy and wanted him out. (1:07:00) �     He wasn’t feeling too good about the armed forces at that point either; it was not what he had expected. Some of the leadership that he had seen, he was not thrilled with. Of the 3 captains that he had on his ship, he would not use any of them to examples of someone who really showed Navy core values. Same with the shore as well. There were many people who felt the same way he did. He would be discharged in April 1980. Once he was out, he retained his commission in a reserve status for 18 months. During that time, he didn’t really pay attention to the Navy at all. He moved away and got a job and continued on with his life. Reserves and Post Duty (1:11:15)                    He would go back into the Navy, though in the reserves. He was employed at an insurance agency and it was not what he really wanted. One night, his wife got a call from a girlfriend of hers, saying that her husband, who happened to be a friend of his, got a job as a recruiter. He and his wife had been talking about him going back into the reserves. After a while he decided against it because it would not be worth the money. After encouragement from his wife’s friend, he would look into working in the reserves. He would eventually get in contact with the reserve station in Muskegon, and he would begin working there in November of 1981 and work there until he retired in 2005. What he did was administrative in nature. Eventually he would have command of 7 reserve units. He would manage filling positions in active duty with trained soldiers who were in these units. As a reserve he would have to go one weekend a month and two weeks a year. He would have to make sure that people did what they needed to do and even get professional qualifications themselves. While he was in the reserves, he did have to go places and did receive individual assignments. He would go to Norfolk, Rhode Island, he commanded a literage unit He had commanded a unit that supported the USS Caron. That was the only time he spent at sea while in the reserves. He spent some time on the USS Shenandoah, USS Scott and others. He would spend three years with a unit that worked internationally with Europe. They had to come up their own war gamming exercise. He was also in a logistics unit that did some expeditionary training. When he was a CO, he had to make sure that the people he went with were well cared for, while other he would spend more time focused on his own qualifications. (1:20:00) He was still in the reserves when 9/11 happened. However, things in the Navy were different than reserves elsewhere. For him personally, it did not have a lot of impact. In his first 21 years in the reserves, the only callup was for Desert Storm. After 9/11, there were a lot of groups deploying. At one point almost a third of them were mobilized for Operation Enduring Freedom, the name for the operation in Afghanistan, or Operation Noble Eagle, which was the domestic response to the attacks. �                     Since then, there has been a lot deploying and a lot coming home wounded in duty. As the Army and Marine Corps got stretched in the years, the Army was looking to the other branches to provide support for them, like jail guards. After he had retired, he had stopped by the reserves center and he met up with an old friend. She was in process of leaving to go to Iraq as a jail guard and was terrified. Another friend of his, a member of the Navy JAG Corps, in 2007, had to be in Baghdad for 8 months trying to find troops that would help support those who were already there. Another friend of his, a captain who he had served with, was assigned a casualties assistance calls officer when the planes hit the pentagon. In this he would have to deal with the families of those who had died. He was the senior CACO for 180 CACO’s, and it put so much stress on him that it cost him his marriage. (1:29:00) When he was working with the reserves he would still have a day job. He would work for a bank up in Ludington, which was acquired by Old Kent Bank, which was then taken over by Fifth Third. When he moved to Grand Rapids, he would stay with them. He would also be a part of Employers Support of Guard and Reserve, in 1996. He had not heard of it since them. When he was working, at the time, at Old Kent Bank, one of the other guys there was a Captain, who was on the reserves for another branch. He had suggested that they put the bank up for this award, as the bank helped some or their soldiers out during Desert Storm. So he found out more about it and they had won the award. In order to accept the award they needed to go to a ceremony in Battle Creek in their uniform. He thought it was going to be a weird little thing, with a couple of guys and it wouldn’t be worth their time. He was wrong. It was a huge ceremony, with 8 or 9 banks there that were all receiving awards. He had to speak because he had nominated his bank and then the award would be given and the representative of the bank would say a few words. This event resonated with him and he began to learn more about it. Eventually he would get a call from the organization and would replace a man who was retiring. It was a volunteer organization that was created by the department of defense in 1972. The mission is to create a culture where military service is valued by every civilian employer in the US. They do this in 3 ways: they recognize the outstanding support already done by the employers, they educate the employer and the employees about all of their rights under the federal law, and they resolve conflict as a mediator. There are 4500 volunteers throughout the country, 100 in MI. He continues to volunteer today at ESGR and does various tasks in order to help out. He gets to speak to a lot of employers and a lot of service members. (1:36:00) As his role as State Chair, he sees a lot beyond MI and he loves to hear all of the cool stories of all the good that has happened. They also work a lot with family support organizations and he really likes seeing what happens there too. As the number of soldiers on active duty as increased, so has the work that ESGR does. Since it is a taxpayer funded organization, it has certain criteria it must follow. They keep track of the different people that they interact with and it has increased since 9/11. �      With all the individuals leaving, the company has to deal with it and that leaves no guarantees for the soldier. Although the federal government says that they must take care of their employees there is no one there to make sure that they do. He tells a lot of people today “So I hear you support your military, what do you do exactly?” There are a lot of things for people to do to help out there military and there are many organizations that could use your help. One of them is called Yellow Ribbon, which helps soldiers transition back to military life and deal with things like PTSD. Personally at his ESGR, they are looking for a more diverse population to help bring in new ideas. The military is more than bullets and bombs, but support and helping others with their problems. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RyanP Title A name given to the resource Ryan, Paul (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ryan, Paul Description An account of the resource Paul Ryan was born in New York City and attended Notre Dame University on a naval ROTC scholarship. Upon graduating in 1975, he went on active duty for four years, serving on destroyers in the Pacific. After leaving the Navy, he joined the reserves in 1981, and did administrative work for them until he retired in 2005. Since then, he has been actively involved with the Employers Support for the Guard and Reserves, an organization dedicated to assisting men and women in the service deal with issues that they encountered when called to active duty. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-01-18 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3eff96c63bf1307559255747eabf7385.jpg f6a88309334a61322c6c312325fd00dc Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RydelChristineAnn_Photo01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Rydel, Christine Ann Description An account of the resource Christine Ann Rydel, Russian Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c9612e9ee5325548ea08f0a779bb4beb.jpg 1ed981a18fe86c906469c0d05d389388 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RydelChristineAnn_Photo02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Rydel, Christine Ann Description An account of the resource Christine Ann Rydel, Russian Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/845a1d587fe4acd0fc5009b42a66725b.jpg 9c1d08a6a435d5bd499fbb24de286e27 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RydelChristineAnn_Photo03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Rydel, Christine Ann Description An account of the resource Christine Ann Rydel, Russian Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bb28c4316605e6a3bd556a95bdf35b75.jpg 68a49cbd56bd6f32e2529867bb7487d7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RydelChristineAnn_Photo04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Rydel, Christine Ann Description An account of the resource Christine Ann Rydel, Russian Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/62ac50a31dd920c12504a9f7e0170103.jpg ef3b63e188fc1f9f6c0b053ebbd1e6d3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RydelChristineAnn_Photo05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Rydel, Christine Ann Description An account of the resource Christine Ann Rydel, Russian Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng