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Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Everett "Cappy" Rowe
(1:48:42)
Background Information (00:15)
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He believes he was born in Oklahoma City but was never told the exact location of his birth.
(00:15)
His father worked in oil fields and his mother died in a tent fire when Cappy was 1. (00:49)
He was never told that his step mother was not his birth mother until he had exited the Air
Force in 1971. (1:27)
His family moved around to a series of states in the Northwest. (2:45)
Cappy attended high school in Iowa in 1936. The graduating class of his school was 8 kids. (3:10)
He attended the University of Iowa seeking a degree in chemical engineering. (4:13)
His father was then moved to Oklahoma so Cappy transferred to the University of Oklahoma. He
was in the ROTC. (8:49)
On June 4th 1940 Cappy was commissioned as 2nd Lieutenant of Artillery. (9:55)
Cappy wanted to be a pilot in the Air Corps. He joined the ROTC to peruse this dream, however
he was denied the opportunity due to high blood pressure. (5:20)
The ROTC had both motorized and horse drawn artillery. (6:21)
There were 2 days between Cappy being commissioned and his service at Fort Sill. (7:42)
Service at Fort Sill, Oklahoma (8:00)
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His first task was to take a basic artillery course. (8:22)
Cappy took both the first class and the second class for artillery training. Most men took just the
first class, or didn’t take them consecutively. (10:00)
He was then sent to Louisiana in 1941. He hated his service here because of all the mosquitoes.
(11:15)
In late 1941 Cappy placed in his application to be in the Air Corps. 2 months later he was
requested to resubmit his application because half of it was lost. (12:08)
Pilots Training (14:20)
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Cappy did receive and was awarded his wings. He was trained as a spotter aboard an aircraft to
help guide artillery fire. (14:25)
4 months after being rewarded his wings, Cappy applied for pilot’s training. He was denied as he
had just completed a special training. (15:15)
Cappy did eventually complete his pilot's training in San Antonio, Texas. (16:25)
In January of 1942 Cappy’s girlfriend who was a nurse received orders to go to the Philippians.
Cappy married his girlfriend in order to keep her from going to the Philippians for service.
(17:00)
Cappy was sent to Colman, Texas for the flying component of his course. (19:20)
He had a civilian instructor. (20:22)
Men were rewarded with a silk scarf after completing so much solo fly time. (21:37)
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Cappy was sent to Fort Worth, Texas to train on B24s. (22:50)
Cappy was given the choice to continue his training in Nevada or Los Angeles. He picked Marsh
Field, Los Angeles, in 1943. There the men prepared rigorously to travel overseas. (25:45)
Cappy picked his bombardier and navigator. (26:50)
Deployment to the Pacific (27:10)
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When being sent to the Pacific, the men flew to Hawaii. During the trip, one engine blew.
Repairs took 2 days. (27:20)
Cappy went surfing while he waited for the men to fix the plane. (28:40)
He turned himself in when the plane landed in Fiji due to a bad sunburn he received while in
Hawaii. (30:39)
As the aircraft landed in Guadalcanal, the men were shot at. This was fairly common. (30:30)
Cappy was in Guadalcanal for 1.5 weeks and made one raid. (31:28)
Cappy when was sent to a different base where the men went on an 18 hour mission. (34:05)
Because of the range of the bombing raid, the enemy was not expecting of the raid. (35:41)
A C-47 was assigned to Cappy’s group. The aircraft was used to send and pick up men who went
to Australia on leave. (38:12)
While Cappy was on leave, his crew was taken by another Major. One their first mission with the
new Major, they were shot down and were killed. (39:00)
Cappy went on a mission where they did not drop their load. On the way back home, Cappy saw
a destroyer. Cappy bombed the destroyer and sunk it. (40:50)
Cappy flew 25 missions all together. (45:16)
Cappy was involved with the bombing of the Philippine Islands. (45:50)
Life in the Air Corps (47:54)
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Living conditions were not very good while serving in the pacific. Cappy often stayed in a tent. At
one point the men did have access to a navy base that had great food. (47:54)
At some location, men had to put their tents up on platforms due to rain. (49:14)
Bombers would often fly over at night. The men ran to their fox hole when they heard these
sounds. (49:42)
Men were ordered to put the flood lights on to the aircrafts when they came over for 5 seconds.
Then they were ordered to shut the lights off. (51:23)
Journey Back to the U.S. (53:50)
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700 men were placed on a 300 man ship for transport. (53:51)
While traveling, the men hit a typhoon. (55:00)
Many aboard the ship got sick. The typhoon lasted 4 days. (56:00)
One man got alcohol to drink. What he didn’t realize was that he had rubbing alcohol. (57:00)
When he arrived in the U.S. he got orders to travel to Portland, Oregon. (58:06)
When the men arrived, much of the men’s clothing and uniforms were either destroyed or dirty.
(58:21)
If the men were near their home, often they just went home rather than going to a base to be
discharged. (59:24)
His wife was staying in Oklahoma while he was in the service. (1:00:00)
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Cappy decided to stay in the Air Corps rather than being discharged. (1:00:42)
Service in England (1:05:11)
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Cappy was sent to Tennessee with all the other re-enlisted Corps men. (1:05:11)
Cappy was sent to England. He was not happy about this and wished to go some place different.
(1:03:24)
Cappy flew a C-47 in England. He also had a biplane to fly. (1:04:40)
He flew to Paris. It was difficult to get a chance to land in the air field as it was very busy.
(1:06:53)
Cappy was in London, England for approx. 9 months. (1:07:25)
Capppy volunteered himself to go back to the states but unfortunately was not aloud and
instead was sent to South Africa. (1:07:39)
He spent much of his time there transporting men and supplies. (1:08:31)
Service in South Africa (1:10:50)
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On the ship going down to South Africa, the men played deck tennis in order for the them to
stayed entertained. A doctor that Cappy had befriended wrote him an I.O.U. for a free delivery
of a child. (1:11:00)
Cappy served in South Africa for 3 years. He went on 3 safaris each costing 5 dollars each.
(1:13:51)
He did a lot of hunting of exotic game. (1:14:20)
Cappy also played for a base ball team. He was called the home run king of South Africa.
(1:16:00)
The I.O.U. was collected from the doctor. (1:18:10)
Cappy was then sent to Austria where a unit was still occupying the area. (1:20:18)
The soldiers were often kicked off of land while serving in Austria by angry civilians. (1:21:04)
Cappy flew himself and a Colonel to England so that they could golf on a famous golf course.
(1:23:02)
Cappy served in Austria for 3 years (1953-1956). (1:24:05)
Cappy was one of the first men to see a Soviet Mig 5. This caused great concern for him and
other soldiers who had witnessed it. (1:24:39)
Cappy served as an attaché in Austria after the occupation ended. (1:26:15)
The Austrian civilians mostly just went along with what the U.S. told them. (1:27:40)
Service in the U.S. (1:28:36)
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Cappy was sent by boat from England to New York. He also brought back a car he had purchased
while in Europe. (1:28:36)
He received a message from Washington shortly after arriving in the U.S. assigning him to DCSI.
But he was then reassigned to the General officer of Colorado air in Colorado Springs. (1:28:54)
Cappy served with NAADC in Colorado Springs. (1:32:15)
He served for 4 years in Colorado Springs. Approx 1955-1960. (1:33:24)
He was transferred to DIA in 1960 where he was an executive officer of a Navy Officer. He was
promoted to Colonel. (1:33:57)
�Service in Hawaii (1:35:25)
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He was shortly stationed performing intelligence work in Hawaii. (1:35:27)
There the men relayed instructions in on Vietnam. (1:36:33)
For a short time he worked in an operations officer. He was irritated about how men were
treating the returning Vietnam veterans. (1:38:47)
He ordered the men who worked under him to greet the returning veterans when they returned
to the states. (1:39:58)
Cappy served as a supervisor over a wide range of assignments. (1:41:25)
He retired in approx 1971. (1:43:37)
Retirement (1:44:38)
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First he lived on Marco Island after his retirement. (1:44:40)
Cappy’s wife received a job in Congress. (1:46:40)
He did not get a job after retiring. He simply enjoyed retirement. (1:47:38)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RoweC1436V
Title
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Rowe, Everett (Interview outline and video), 2012
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Rowe, Everett
Description
An account of the resource
Cappy Rowe served in the U.S. Air Force from 1941 to 1971. He enlisted in the Army prior to the start of the war, and trained initially as an artillerist, but eventually was accepted for pilot training. He served in the Pacific during the latter part of World War II, flying out of Guadalcanal and other islands. After the war, he had assignments in England, South Africa, Austria, Hawaii and the continental US, doing various types of intelligence work, and retired as a full colonel.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.)
WKTV
WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Army Air Corps
United States. Air Force
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
Language
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eng
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2012-08-21
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
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PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
World War II
Gordon Rowe
Length: 44:07
(00:15) Background Information
Gordon was born on May 23, 1925 in Detroit, Michigan
He grew up in Highland Park and went to school in Ferndale
Gordon’s father worked for Ford Motor Company and his mother was a house wife
When he was about 7 years Gordon got very sick with whooping cough, scarlet fever,
and a few other sicknesses that basically kept him quarantined in his house for 2 years
Gordon played baseball in high school and later got a job working after school
(5:10) Marines
There were many young men in Ferndale that wanted to enlist and their town had an
unusually high percentage of Marines
Gordon had wanted to enlist after Pearl Harbor was attached, but had not yet graduated
from high school and was told that he would at least need his diploma to enlist
That summer he went through summer classes so that he could finish high school early
and was allowed to enlist when he was 17 years old
Gordon went through 8 weeks of basic training in San Diego, California, consisting of
much physical activity that he enjoyed
He then went through 6 weeks of advanced training in intelligence and joined the 5th
Marine Division, which was a new division that had just begun forming
(13:55) Iwo Jima
Gordon’s division was sent to Hawaii in May of 1942[1944?] and they were told that
they would serve as replacements in Saipan
Later his entire division was sent to Iwo Jima for the invasion
It took they two months to make it there because they were waiting for supplies and other
ships in Hawaii
They landed and took an LST to shore where shells were flying all around them
There were many casualties on the landing and thousands of men were wounded
Gordon spent 36 days in Iwo Jima securing the island and then headed back to Hawaii
In Hawaii Gordon worked as a Marine swimming guard with men that were on R & R at
the beach
(23:45) End of War
�
Once the war had ended Gordon was sent to Japan to work for 6 months and then to
Palau for another 6 months
There he continued working as a swimming guard, though he had though that he would
be sent home after his time in Japan
He later found that all the swimming areas in Palau contained many alligators
There were still many Japanese soldiers hiding in the jungle that did not know that the
war was over
(27:25) Discharged
Gordon was sent back to San Diego in 1946 and had to remain in the barracks for another
19 days until all his time was up
He then had furlough in Michigan for 30 days and was later sent to Washington DC to be
discharged
Gordon later met his wife at an ice cream shop and got married in 1950; they had 2
daughters and 1 son
He began working as an underwriter for an insurance company, where he worked for 10
years
Gordon later got a job at a hospital working as a purchasing agent and as office manager
(38:10) Looking Back
Gordon feels that the Marine Corps did not provide enough academic training
There was a lot of physical work, discipline, and obedience, which did not help him later
in his career
Gordon still has many good friends from the service that he goes to the local VFW with
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RoweG
Title
A name given to the resource
Rowe, Gordon (Interview outline and video), 2008
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Rowe, Gordon
Description
An account of the resource
Gordon Rowe was born on May 23, 1925 in Detroit, Michigan. He had wanted to enlist in the Marines after Pearl Harbor was attacked, but was too young at the time. The following summer he spent all his time at summer school so that he could graduate early and enlist in the Marines. Gordon went through basic training in San Diego, California for 8 weeks and then was assigned to help form the new 5th Marine Division. Gordon was sent to Iwo Jima for the invasion and was there for 36 days securing the island. After the war ended he continued working in the Pacific for another year before he was discharged in 1946.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer)
Collins, Carol (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Marine Corps
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2008-03-10
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Faces of Grand Valley
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
University Communications
Description
An account of the resource
A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1960s - 1990s
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copryight
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
College administrators
College teachers
Colleges and universities -- Faculty
Michigan
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-03
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RoweStephen_Photo1
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. University Communications
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1981
Title
A name given to the resource
Rowe, Stephen
Description
An account of the resource
Stephen Rowe, Philosophy
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University – History
College teachers
Universities and colleges – Faculty
Michigan
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copyright
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
1981s
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Faces of Grand Valley
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
University Communications
Description
An account of the resource
A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1960s - 1990s
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copryight
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
College administrators
College teachers
Colleges and universities -- Faculty
Michigan
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-03
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RoweStephen_Photo2
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. University Communications
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1981
Title
A name given to the resource
Rowe, Stephen
Description
An account of the resource
Stephen Rowe, Philosophy
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University – History
College teachers
Universities and colleges – Faculty
Michigan
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copyright
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
1981s
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Faces of Grand Valley
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
University Communications
Description
An account of the resource
A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1960s - 1990s
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GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files
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Grand Valley State University
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Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives
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GV012-03
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image/jpeg
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eng
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RoweStephen_Photo3
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Grand Valley State University. University Communications
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1993
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Rowe, Stephen
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Stephen Rowe, Philosophy
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Grand Valley State University – History
College teachers
Universities and colleges – Faculty
Michigan
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University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03)
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Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives
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eng
1993s
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0d38314cae6a9aba84ad799721a61e2b.jpg
2cb452de58140ddd85ea89339ce56445
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Faces of Grand Valley
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Grand Valley State University
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University Communications
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A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community.
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1960s - 1990s
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GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files
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Grand Valley State University
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Michigan
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Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives
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GV012-03
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eng
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RoweStephen_Photo4
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Grand Valley State University. University Communications
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1981
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Rowe, Stephen
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Stephen Rowe, Philosophy
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Grand Valley State University – History
College teachers
Universities and colleges – Faculty
Michigan
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University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03)
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Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives
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In Copyright
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eng
1981s
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2b68c155e671673a44e38ab2e5401b7f.jpg
68a945e7e7555d41695678253e841a15
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Faces of Grand Valley
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Grand Valley State University
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University Communications
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1960s - 1990s
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GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files
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Grand Valley State University
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Michigan
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Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives
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GV012-03
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eng
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RoweStephen_Photo5
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Grand Valley State University. University Communications
Date
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1981
Title
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Rowe, Stephen
Description
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Stephen Rowe, Philosophy
Subject
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Grand Valley State University – History
College teachers
Universities and colleges – Faculty
Michigan
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University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03)
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Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives
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eng
1981s
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b8ca61e2277ec2f800f81b80960873b6.mp4
e0afa47767b31b737c875fe6e3efe75a
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/880cdd8b49c339ad114bcc304cc3e9c0.pdf
c96c1bdbe28d53cba05e28da45550a4e
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Cold War/Vietnam
Pete Rowe
Total Time – (01:19:51)
Background
He was born in Abilene, Texas in 1942 (00:17)
His father was in the Pacific fighting during World War II
o He flew B-24’s
o His mother had family in the Texas area
He grew up in many different places because his father was in the military for a
long time (00:47)
o When his father came back from the war, his family moved to London,
England where he served as an Assistant Air Attaché (00:55)
o His family spent two years in London before living in South Africa for
two years
o After South Africa, his family returned to Washington D.C. where they
spent four years
o They then moved to Salzburg, Austria for two years before living in
Vienna for one year (01:11)
o He eventually graduated from high school in Colorado Springs, Colorado
(01:17)
While he was in each location, he picked up cultural idioms and gained a different
outlook on life (01:30)
Training/Education/ROTC Training – (01:34)
After he finished high school he went to the University of Florida for four years
where he majored in History (01:36)
o He served in the Air Force ROTC (Reserved Officers’ Training Corps) at
the University
o The ROTC program allowed him to be commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant
(01:44)
He had decided to join the Air Force because he had been in many locations with
his family
He made the decision to become an Intelligence Officer before he had gone to
college (02:20)
�
o He chose the History major so that he could further his goal
His father had done some intelligence work at some embassies
Some of his experiences growing up helped familiarize him with the world
(03:47)
He graduated from the University of Florida in 1964 (03:53)
In 1964, believed he could get similar jobs as his father (04:19)
o He thought he assignments would be wonderful and he would get to travel
Though the Vietnam conflict was escalating, the war had not “hit home yet”
o He believed America was still more worried about China, the Soviets, and
the Cold War (05:15)
Active Duty – Philippines – (05:28)
He received his first assignment – it was a training assignment in San Angelo,
Texas at Goodfellow Air Force Base (05:30)
o He became a Signals Intelligence Officer
He wanted to be a Human Intelligence Officer
o The signals intelligence course was nine months long
He learned cryptography, code breaking, etc. (05:56)
The other trainees were standard officers (06:15)
o They were from colleges across America
The men he was going to be in charge of were a “step up” from the rest (06:27)
o The men had to listen for hours a time, listening to communications of
foreign countries, and transcribe the communications (06:41)
o He had to be in charge of these men
o The men had to let off a lot of steam after this kind of work
o They were enlisted men (07:21)
When he was in the Philippines, they had an AN/FLR-9 radio antenna (07:31)
o All of the interceptions were directed to China and the Soviet Union
o There were 75-100 men in a building that would listen and then report to
their Non-commissioned Officers (NCO) who would then report the
information to their commanders
o The Americans could see where particular airplanes were flying according
to the other countries (08:28)
o He would have to decide if he wanted to report the information critically
or not
o The men worked in eight hour shifts
The receiver takes in transmissions from across the world (09:52)
o A lot of the information was chaos
o After intercepting for a long time, NCOs knew what and when to report
They relied heavily on experienced NCOs (11:13)
He went to the Philippines in 1965-1967 (11:22)
Over the course of the two years, the Vietnam conflict received a small
percentage of their attention (11:55)
�
o The Vietnamese did not have the same kind of communication equipment
that would allow for interception (12:00)
They used a primitive form of communication
He knows that the Americas were effective with their interceptions and decoding
(12:44)
Some of the intercept operators could tell who was sending the messages based on
mistakes that had been previously made (13:04)
At one point, one of the reports came in that the Chinese were standing down all
military and commercial aircraft (14:21)
o This was a red flag for him
o They immediately went to a critical flash mode (14:40)
o It turned out that the information was important but nothing too critical
In the Philippines, the work was fairly routine (15:26)
o The style of work is one of the reasons he prefers human intelligence work
more than communications intelligence (15:32)
Most of the activities he became involved with were simply routine
Clark Air Base, on Luzon Island, Philippines, was the largest US military base
outside the continental United States (16:33)
o It had all kinds of housing, an air field, and was virtually a town within
itself
o It was vulnerable for theft (16:56)
There were Philippine criminals that would show up and take
things – One time someone stole a fire engine (17:12)
o There were horse patrols and the base (17:27)
o The Escape and Evasion Course was located on the base as well
o One time the perimeter patrol was on duty and they came upon a five
hundred foot section of a fence that was stolen (18:19)
o The base was on extremely flat land
o There were several off-duty clubs (19:05)
o The base was extremely active during this time
He was not anywhere near a major city while in the Philippines
Angeles, Philippines was a city just north of the base (19:48)
o Men could go there and find prostitutes, bars, the black market, etc.
There was a golf course and 11-man tackle football program on the base
o The morale of the men was high because of the many opportunities
(20:51)
By 1967, the men were happy to be where they were and not in Vietnam (21:28)
The job performance of the men was excellent
o The intercepting operators were extremely capable (21:45)
He was forbidden to go to Hong Kong because of security clearances (22:26)
o There were R&R (Rest and Relaxation) locations in the Philippines
In 1967 he went from Clark Air Base to Washington D.C. (23:02)
o He spent a year in a defense intelligence college at Anacostia Naval Air
Station (23:07)
He learned the art of intelligence
The training prepared him to go to other assignments (23:38)
�
He then spent six months at the Clandestine Officer School (23:43)
o He trained in trade craft of clandestine operations
o The training prepared him for his next position
Active Duty – Vietnam – (24:10)
In January of 1969 he was sent to Vietnam to serve as an Intelligence
Interrogation Team Chief (24:15)
o His unit was in Nha Trang, Vietnam (24:26)
o There were units in each of the corps
The teams function was to go to locations in each corps and interrogate captured
prisoners
o They were more like interviews because interrogation is difficult with the
language barrier (25:04)
o They were limited on what they could do to the prisoners in order to make
them speak
His team focused on gaining strategic intelligence (25:26)
The time sensitivity of information that was needed was extremely critical
Before he left for Vietnam, he received no kind of preparation (26:34)
o They were given some hints about interrogation, but there was not specific
training
He had a team of five men (27:15)
o They would be sent to the different areas of their core for interrogations
Many of the interrogations took place in field hospitals (27:46)
o They would be put in a separate ward where only military volunteers
would service
o All Vietnamese personnel and staff would be kept away from the
interrogated individual (28:50)
He flew to Vietnam on a commercial military flight
o He boarded a plane on December 31, 1969 and landed in Saigon on
January 2, 1970 (29:08)
o He did not receive a special seat in the plane
After they landed, he was funneled through various transitional stations until he
was sent to meet up with his unit
o He was taken in a “beat up, old Toyota car” (29:48)
Because he was not receiving technical intelligence, he did not have to wear a
uniform – he was able to wear civilian clothing (29:59)
o The fact that they did not wear uniforms created some degree of enmity
o He is not sure why they needed to always wear civilian clothing (30:42)
When he landed in Vietnam, he was briefed by his authorities (31:39)
o He was briefed on general operations
He had Vietnamese interpreters for those that could not speak Vietnamese (32:16)
o Some were extremely competent and others were not
o There were Americans on his unit that spoke Vietnamese (32:33)
�
They were most effective at getting information
He was able to get to know his interpreter fairly well (33:21)
o His interpreter decided that interpreting was not suited for him
o The opportunities to become close with the interpreters were limited
o Some interpreters were reassigned by the Vietnamese military (33:41)
o Most of the contact was functional and operational (33:51)
When he was in Nha Trang, he lived on a base
o They had two villas
One was for sleeping quarters and the other was for radios, report
writing, etc. (34:25)
When he was transferred from his team to headquarters in Saigon, he lived off
base
In Nha Trang, the skill of the Air America pilots was very good (35:11)
o He also remembers the compassion shown by those in the medical
facilities with the enemy POW’s (36:58)
They were very dedicated to the medical profession
He believes that many of the prisoners were surprised at the
treatment they received (37:28)
The entire time he was there, he talked to no one that had more
than an eighth grade education (38:01)
They had all been recruited
Many of the POW’s would tell him anything he wanted to know
Most of the men did not provide them with much information
(38:52)
Many of the Vietnamese soldiers that were interrogated were sick, wounded, and
were not motivated in the national defense of their country (39:44)
When he went to headquarters in Saigon, he was made the Traffic Exploitation
Officer (40:48)
o He was in charge of all the reporting from all of the field teams
He would edit and clarify reports
It was not very exciting (41:08)
o There was a sense that he made something worth while for those in higher
locations – he took pride in making professional reports
The working environment was extremely temporary (41:46)
o There was nothing permanent
He does not remember an NCO that did not deserve to be there (42:03)
o There was no grumbling or complaining
There was no fear of snipers (43:52)
o There were weekly mortar attacks in Nha Trang City
The attacks were relatively brief (44:31)
o It was creepy when they found out where the shots were coming from
They realized that being there was not just a “free pass” (45:00)
He stayed in Vietnam for one year (45:08)
o He left in December of 1969
Over the course of the year, he became glad that he was not an Army guy (45:23)
o They were always in the wild
�
Any time he had to go to locations that were not hospital bases, he felt badly for
the military men (45:46)
o They had little support
When he was in the environment, he did not worry about the big picture
o He has a job to do, and the point is to do the job well (46:38)
If you learn things, then great – as long as you do what you are
supposed to do, everything is fine
o He was hoping that things were going well and that he was contributing
(47:06)
There were times when he was eating dinner and relaxing in Saigon and could see
the bombing in the distance
o He was wondering what they were doing in Vietnam (47:40)
He sometimes wondered if the war would ever turn around (47:58)
The American soldiers were happy when the drawback began
While he was in Vietnam, he only knew of the anti-war protests through the
newspapers (48:52)
o No one ever wrote him a bad letter and no one spat on him when he
returned
When he returned, he landed at Travis Air Force Base in Fairfield, California
(49:23)
o He then flew commercially to his home in Washington D.C.
DCD/CIA – ROTC Instructor – (49:35)
He was then sent into the DCD (Domestic Contact Division) program (49:52)
o It was a group of CIA agents and interviewers that were placed in major
US cities to gain information from businessmen, educators,
newspapermen, religious leaders, etc.
o The unit he was in assigned him to the CIA field office in Seattle,
Washington (50:33)
He was assigned in Washington because the Boeing headquarters
were there and it complemented his Air Force background very
well
He was in Seattle, Washington for four years (50:56)
There was only in-house training
o He would go and talk to various officials in the agency that did role
playing activities
When he would go to a company, he would establish contact with the CEO and
tell them that they need information about the Soviet Union (51:30)
o They wanted to talk to the employees that would travel abroad to the
Soviet Union and China
o Once they received approval, they would set up appointments and
interview the men (52:07)
�
o Based on the interview, the information would be sent to CIA offices
where they would generate more requirements that they wanted
They would have another appointment with the individual (54:23)
They would always carry a tape recorder with them
He worked at various companies, not just Boeing
He was responsible for the feeding and care of defectors (53:11)
o It was similar to the Witness Protection Program (53:18)
When he was dealing with the various employees, the majority of the men were
cooperative (53:45)
o There were some that did not want to reveal anything
o Nearly 99% of the men wanted to cooperate (54:03)
At one point, he became well acquainted with a veterinarian who was a
hyperbaric chamber specialist (54:08)
o He had a hyperbaric chamber in his offices
o Through his contacts, he became acquainted with the deputy of
oceanology in the Soviet Union (54:41)
They corresponded back and forth
This became interesting by the agency
Because of space travel, scientists were concerned about the role of
gravity on the body (55:01)
o He encouraged his contact to bring the Soviet to the United States
He came over, stayed with the veterinarian
The information they received was quite helpful (55:49)
After four years, he was sent to be an Air Force ROTC Instructor and became an
Assistant Professor of Aerospace Studies at California State University, Fresno
(56:15)
o He worked there for four years
Before he went to be an Assistant Professor, he was assigned to interview and be
a debriefing officer for many of the POW’s (56:42)
It was called “Operation Homecoming”
o Many of the men were prisoners for six years (57:04)
When they returned, they were behind six years
News information, magazines, and mass amounts of information
were given to them to fill them in (57:16)
o The interviews allowed the POW’s verbally process their experiences
(57:50)
o Each interviewer was assigned one POW
He had to talk and interview him
He was a bachelor (58:14)
When he got back, he became “very active”
o The interviews took place at the March Air Reserve Base in Riverside
County, California (58:35)
The POW that he interviewed was a young pilot, tried to get out of
everything he could get out of, and managed to successfully evade
the Escape and Evasion course that he was required to take
�
When he went to Vietnam and was captured, he spent six years in
captivity without the background that he should have had (59:42)
o When the men were brought back, psychological help was given if they
asked for it (01:00:00)
o What was found out was that the pilots were far beyond what they were
assumed to be
They were well educated, mature, organized, and had everything
together in dealing with the enemy (01:00:20)
They formed a POW wing with assigned positions, chaplain,
historical member, etc. while they were prisoners
Some of the men even took courses (01:00:55)
o North Vietnam would capture pilots, treat them well, and then release
them early in order to give the impression that everyone else would be
treated well (01:01:20)
Because the North Vietnamese did not release the names of POW’s, there was one
man that remembered 300 of the POW names and reported them as soon as he
came home (01:02:18)
o It was extremely encouraging to many American families at home
He then went to the ROTC program at California State University, Fresno
He was fearful because he knew he would be facing protests (01:03:28)
o However, they never faced any protests
o Perhaps the war was over and out of their minds (01:03:43)
They would sometimes go to campuses and recruit, but it was not the focus of the
program (01:04:23)
o The program was two years long
The program had near one hundred people every year (01:05:23)
o He worked with roughly seven others
They would go to a summer encampment somewhere in the United States for six
weeks for training (01:05:57)
The recruits were at nearly the same level as those that he had previously worked
with
o There were some mature acting kids (01:06:55)
The students he worked with were relatively the same as those he served with
(01:07:16)
There is a difference between the different branches of military in the types of
jobs that are done
o Yet, the level of students in his office was very strong (01:08:40)
NSA – (01:08:44)
Once he finished his teaching in 1978, he was assigned at the headquarters of the
NSA (National Security Agency) (01:08:50)
o He served for a brief time at the Air Force Liaison Office (01:09:02)
o He was then able to acquire an executive staff position as the Briefing
Officer to the Director of the NSA (01:09:16)
�
He briefed ambassadors, senators, generals, etc. about the NSA’s
missions (01:09:20)
He was in this position for nearly three years
One of the problems of briefing anyone at the NSA was that the security levels
were often so high and tight that there were many things that he could not tell
them (01:10:34)
o Some people would become visibly upset
o A Top Secret level of clearance at the NSA is nothing
“Even janitors have Top Secret clearance (01:11:00)
He then went to Fort Belvoir, Virginia to serve in the Humint (human
intelligence) unit (01:11:50)
o He was Chief of Plans Resources and Personnel for the Air Force for four
years
He had a desk job that was in charge of hiring, budget, transportation, and units
all across the world – he dealt with the support aspects (01:12:11)
o He had to go to various units in the Pacific and Europe
o He stayed very active (01:12:54)
The changes in the political sphere did not greatly effect anything within the
military
o The military has a culture (01:14:03)
o Everyone has a job to do
o Complaints happen privately (01:14:27)
It is easy to not think about the deeper thought processes, philosophy, or policies
because you cannot do much to change them (01:14:39)
There was no things, actions, or words that were said with those he worked with
that judged whether policies were right or wrong
When he was with the ROTC program after Vietnam, there were those that had
priority over others
o It became difficult to become a pilot (01:16:17)
o The military becomes very picky with who they take in (01:16:37)
After the Service – (01:17:00)
His experiences in the military helped him become more compassionate with
those in certain situations, allowed him to “see the other side”, and be more
understanding of others situations (01:17:12)
By going and working with people in different cultures, he came to learn and
accept differences more than a normal person (01:17:47)
He retired in 1984 at the age of 42
After the service, he taught track and field at a high school in northern Michigan
before going to Grand Valley State University in Grand Rapids, Michigan where
he coached track and field (01:18:27)
Because the coaching position did not pay much, he received his second and third
Master’s Degree from Grand Valley State University
�o He received one in Public Administration and one in Educational
Leadership
o He took his education as a basis and got into the K-12 education world in
the administrative level (01:18:54)
He served at Grandville High School
o He attained a Principle Assistantship at Forest Hills Northern High School
in Grand Rapids, Michigan
o He retired in 2010 (01:19:36)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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RoweP1440V
Title
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Rowe, Stephen "Pete" (Interview outline and video), 2012
Creator
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Rowe, Stephen "Pete"
Description
An account of the resource
Pete Rowe, born in Abilene Texas in 1942, served in the U.S. Air Force from 1964-1986 as an intelligence officer. Pete began his service in the ROTC program. After being commissioned, Pete was sent to the Philippines where he served over an intelligence team that intercepted signals from South and Southwest China. In 1968, Pete was sent to Vietnam where he worked interrogating captured North Vietnamese's soldiers during the Vietnam War. After leaving the country in 1969, Pete began working in the Domestic Contact Position (DCP) where he interviewed individuals who commonly interacted with and traveled outside of the country in order to gain intelligence. In 1974, he began working as an assistant professor of aerospace engineering at California State University Fresno in the ROTC program.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
James, Smither (Interviewer)
Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.)
WKTV
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Air Force
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
Language
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eng
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
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2012-09-20
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7494ef5b62f3a0ad80fa2ceb1095e5af.mp4
682591fcd213c4fd6063b1d1332d9f72
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aa6a91fcf77978c3a3f1f2689f6b8076
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview Notes
Length: 15:38
Stephen Rowe
Vietnam Veteran
United States Air Force; 20 years in the service
7602 Air Intelligence Group
(15:07) Stephen Rowe
• Assistant principal at Forest Hills High School
(15:27) Before the service
• Went to school
• College at University of Florida
• ROTC
o Prepares you to be officer in a given service
(16:39) Why the Air Force
• Dad was in the Air Force for 30 years in the field of intelligence
• Like intelligence and liked the way the Air Force worked so joined
(17:18) Service
• Graduated from University of Florida and was commissioned
• Dad went to Hawaii with the service
• Rowe went to Hawaii with parents and entered the service there
• First assignment was to Vietnam
(18:42) Combat
• Saw combat in the Republic of Vietnam 1969-1970
(19:01) Time in the Service
• Signal Intelligence
o Philippines
o 2 years
o Intercepted signals from the enemy
o Target was China, Russia, and S.E. Asia
• Defense Intelligence School in Washington, DC
o Graduated with a diploma
o Learned about all types of intelligence services
o 1 year
• Clandestine Service School
o Learned about spying, how to handle spies, etc.
o 9 months
• Vietnam
o 1 year
o Team Chief of an Interrogation Team in Nha Trang
o Interrogated POWs of Vietnam
• Washington, DC
o Short training
�•
•
Assigned to CIA for 4 years in Seattle, Washington
Fresno, CA
o Taught Air Force ROTC at Fresno State
• NSA (Fort Meade, Maryland)
o 4 years
o NSA Director’s Chief Briefer
o Briefing about NSA to all visiting generals, military people
• Fort Belvoir, VA to USAF Human Intelligence
• Retired after 20 years in the service
(23:06) Most memorable moment
• Debriefing of our POWs who had been captured in Vietnam and held as POWs
for 7 or 8 years
• When war ended, POWs had to be debriefed
• When in the CIA, assigned to certain places to do debriefing process
o Went to a base by Riverside, CA
o All debriefing was done at hospitals
o Spent 2-4 weeks with the men while they told their story
(24:35) Casualties
• Not a lot in the part of the Air Force that he was in
• His group would usually fly in after the battles were over to find the POWs or
casualties
(25:18) Fear
• Yes. Fear that won’t return
• Every time you fly, you didn’t know if you would get shot down
• Fear of ambush
• Fear that would not do the kind of job you wanted to do
(26:14) Food
• Sometimes good, sometimes just ok
(27:04) Leisure
• In Vietnam, stationed in a coastland city so would go to the beach sometimes
• Sometimes drive around the city
(27:45) Staying in contact with loved ones
• MAIL!
(28:15) Holidays
• Not fun because not with family
• Military didn’t go overboard with celebrations
• Christmas was the loneliest time
o Get drinks with the buddies and toast to wives and children
o Never toasted to win the war but to get home soon
• Entertainment groups would sometimes come through
o Bob Hope
(30:35) Skills learned
• Gained a lot through the training
• * DVD cut off here. Seems as though he had more to say
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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RoweS
Title
A name given to the resource
Rowe, Stephen (Interview outline and video), 2006
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Rowe, Stephen
Description
An account of the resource
Stephen Rowe is a Vietnam veteran who served in the United States Air Force for 20 years in the field of intelligence. As a member of the 7602 Air Force Intelligence Group, Rowe went to Vietnam, the Philippines, and various bases throughout the United States. In this interview, Rowe gives an overview of his 20 years spent in the service and answers questions about food, free time, holidays, fear, and combat. One of his most memorable moments occurred just after Vietnam, when Rowe was assigned to the debriefing of one of the Vietnam POWs. Rowe spent 2-4 weeks in a hospital near Riverside, CA listening to the POWs story.
Contributor
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Koptik, Rachael (Interviewer)
Tittle, Victoria (Interviewer)
Forest Hills Eastern High School (Ada, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
Video recordings
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2006-06-04
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6f3b323ed57ae9bfc0b7740ff47ff338.jpg
97bf919d77508338f2e58ccbd6ad02eb
Dublin Core
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Title
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Grand Valley State University Photographs
Subject
The topic of the resource
Aerial photographs
Universities and colleges
Michigan
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Allendale (Mich.)
Building
Facilities
Dormitories
Students
Events
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
Description
An account of the resource
People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan.
Creator
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News & Information Services. University Communications
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
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2017-03-03
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Format
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image/jpg
Language
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eng
Type
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image
Identifier
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GV012-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960s-2000s
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Local Subject
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1960s
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a>
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GV012-01_UAPhotos_001006
Title
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Rowing team
Description
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Rowing team, 1964
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Grand Valley State University
Michigan
Allendale (Mich.)
Universities and colleges
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eng
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
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Image
Format
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image/jpeg
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
black and white photo
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/67c8da84f87d2ce573d67b1a289011bc.jpg
6191ecb073bd98c6b748332cd85ff463
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grand Valley State University Photographs
Subject
The topic of the resource
Aerial photographs
Universities and colleges
Michigan
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Allendale (Mich.)
Building
Facilities
Dormitories
Students
Events
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
Description
An account of the resource
People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan.
Creator
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News & Information Services. University Communications
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
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2017-03-03
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
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image/jpg
Language
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eng
Type
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image
Identifier
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GV012-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960s-2000s
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Local Subject
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1970s
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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GV012-01_UAPhotos_001007
Title
A name given to the resource
Rowing team
Description
An account of the resource
Rowing team on the water.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
Michigan
Allendale (Mich.)
Universities and colleges
Language
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eng
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Type
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Image
Format
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image/jpeg
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
color photo
-
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fd90bd5780920385eb90fde8c63b63c4
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a9172b9d8f95408ed38b1c237b1b205d
PDF Text
Text
Rowland, Daniel
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: Iraq War
Interviewee’s Name: Daniel Rowland
Length of Interview: (1:09:57)
Interviewed by: Koty Leroy Rollins
Transcribed by: Maluhia Buhlman
Interviewer: “I’m here with Daniel Rowland from Comstock Park and the interviewer is
Koty Leroy Rollins of the Grand Valley State Veterans History Project. Alright Daniel let’s
just jump into this, when were you born and where at?”
Well I was born in Grand Rapids in 1975, July time frame, at least that’s what my parents told
me, they could be wrong I don’t know.
Interviewer: “You never know. So what was your early life like? What–” (00:57)
Ah pretty mundane, I mean pretty common, went to school, grew up, had an older brother who
liked to, you know be an older brother we’ll just leave it at that. Nothing too exciting.
Interviewer: “Alright, when did you enlist and what led you to that choice?”
My brother had enlisted in the Marine Corps and I’m like “Oh that’s cool.” Then I– The sad fact
was I actually applied for an ROTC scholarship and got a full ride to North Carolina State
University and my lack of discipline led me to drop out and enlist.
Interviewer: “Okay, so you enlisted after spending how much time in college?”
Three semesters, cause apparently if you go to college on the government’s dime and don’t
finish, you owe them money, or you enlist.
�Rowland, Daniel
Interviewer: “Sounds about right, did your brother like, tell you all these cool stories, did
he prep you for boot camp or anything?”
Nah, he only went in about a year and a half before me, I mean he told me things but in
retrospect I think he was just messing with me.
Interviewer: “What type of things did he tell you then?”
Oh it’s not that hard, it’s fun and you know typical big brother taunting the little brother things as
you follow his footsteps. That makes it not as enjoyable as one would think.
Interviewer: “Okay, so what was boot camp like then were you prepared for it at all?”
In general yeah I mean it’s not– Physically it wasn’t that hard but you know coming from three
semesters in ROTC I kind of already knew the drill of stuff. (2:30) So this is gonna sound self
aggrandizing to a certain extent but like I think it was about two weeks in they made me the
guide for the platoon and I ended up doing that because I already knew a lot of the stuff like
ranks and all that because like I said the three semester in ROTC kind of gave me a head start on
everything that they teach you, common Marine Corps history, Navy ranks, Marine Corps ranks,
how to march, of course that might of been nine years of marching band too but either way– I
was a geek.
Interviewer: “So you were pretty prepared.”
For the general knowledge and physical aptitude but I’m sure as you know being a former Navy
is– No matter how much you know being prepared is not as easy as it sounds especially when
you’re the guide, somebody messes up you get punished.
Interviewer: “And stepping back just a little bit one thing I forgot to ask, did you have any
family history of military or were you and your brother like the first.”
�Rowland, Daniel
I had an uncle serve in Vietnam but he died there and I never knew him so I couldn’t say, and
then my other uncle was in the Air Force for two years but he went to Germany, came home and
he had some pretty weird stories but we won’t go there, Germans are weird apparently.
Interviewer: “Yeah, so it was just you and your brother then for the most part?”
Yeah from the immediate family, nobody– Yeah, nobody else I knew served, I know my dad
tried but got 4Fed cause bad feet or something and then I know my grandpa tried and “We need
you home!” World War II but nobody– Nobody seemed to be able to get in until me and my
brother.
Interviewer: “Fair enough, now when you say 4F you mean like medically.”
Right, yeah between his eyes and his feet I guess they didn’t want him. Back then– They weren’t
as accepting back then of medical– Of any little medical condition where nowadays anybody–
Cause they can fix most things, here have some new shoes. (4:22)
Interviewer: “So going back to the boot camp thing you said you were the guide, was that
like the leader of the cadets or what was that?”
Yeah, I don’t know what did they call it. Yeah it’s you’re the head recruit, I guess you could say
“in charge” but you really weren’t, you were pretty much the top– You’re pretty much who the
drill instructors told to get stuff done and who to delegate.
Interviewer: “And you were the one that got in trouble when someone else messed up.”
Oh yeah, there were mornings I would be up before the rest of the platoon getting thrashed
because someone messed up during the night or something, I don’t know, I don’t remember.
Interviewer: “When you say getting thrashed do you mean like PT or like–”
�Rowland, Daniel
Yeah, no they don’t– They were not allowed physical contact but they could make you run in
place, do push ups, there were four exercises, funnel kicks, push ups, run in place, don’t
remember the fourth one off the top of my head but basically you did it until your arms were
jelly and you couldn’t do anything else.
Interviewer: “And this was in ‘95?”
Yeah.
Interviewer: “Okay.”
I’m sure they still kind of do– I mean it was the Marine Corps, you gotta be hard ass I guess
would be the term nowadays.
Interviewer: “So pretty much everything else other than that you were good at, you knew.”
(5:35)
I wouldn’t say “good at” but I knew enough to not have to, you know worry about it, how's that
sound.
Interviewer: “Did you have any issues with the other recruits, I know sometimes they don’t
take–”
Well being the guide yeah sometimes like you’d have the one they just couldn’t get anything
right or was moving too slow and you either had to help them out or get trashed more, I was in
pretty good shape when I got out of boot camp.
Interviewer: “Alright so when– Once you graduated boot camp what did you move onto?”
�Rowland, Daniel
Marine combat training which is three weeks of just basic cause every Marine is a rifleman so
we had to basically go somewhere and spend three weeks in the field and living in tents and
walking through woods, nothing amazing.
Interviewer: “Nothing fun happened there?”
Well one time it rained so hard that we had to come back from out of the field, when we went
back the next day finding all our gear in the mud was fun. Yeah it was out in California, oh joy
oh joy.”
Interviewer: “So it was out in California.”
Yeah it was the one with flashlights, I think it was I don’t know.
Interviewer: “So you– Where did you go to boot camp at?” (6:42)
San Diego, I was a Hollywood Marine as they call it.
Interviewer: “So you went all the way from Michigan to San Diego for boot camp?”
Yep and I came home for ten days, went back out to Camp Pendleton for the combat training.
Interviewer: “Alright, and where’d you go after that?”
Went to North Carolina for my job training, which I was initially an administrative clerk, yay. I
know right I got to learn how to type.
Interviewer: “That’s fun.”
And file things.
�Rowland, Daniel
Interviewer: “So nothing exciting happened there?”
Well it was kind of fun, my brother was stationed at Camp Lejeune and when everybody else had
to stay on the base when we got there I got to leave for the weekend and it really pissed people
off because, you know reasons and then well I ended up meeting– I ended up getting married at a
job training, I met a female Marine that was going to school as well, let’s just say that didn’t end
well but I’ll just leave that at that.
Interviewer: “Fair enough.”
What if we’re gonna talk about it might as well just throw it all out there right?
Interviewer: “Hey, it’s your story.”
Then I drove cross country and went to Hawaii for three and a half years. (7:50)
Interviewer: “Why did you have to drive cross country?”
Well I bought– See that was one thing my brother was good for he was a tia– Traffic
management office or whatever, he’s the guy that ships stuff around and when we graduated job
training they’re like “You can only take like two sea bags with you.” And then I asked my
brother and he’s like “Nah man you can ship whatever you want, car or whatever.” So I bought a
car, drove across the country, had it shipped out of San Francisco and went to Hawaii cause I’m
like– Cause you know how they are they want to tell all the new guys “Oh no you can’t do this
or that.” I mean if I was gonna be there for three and a half years I’m gonna have some stuff.
Interviewer: “Fair enough.”
For some reason cars in Hawaii are way overpriced.
Interviewer: “I can confirm that.”
�Rowland, Daniel
I assume it’s shipping costs.
Interviewer: “That and just everything is expensive in Hawaii that’s just how it goes.”
Oh yeah, it was expensive 20 years ago when I was there I can only imagine today.
Interviewer: “So, where’d you get stationed at in Hawaii?”
Camp Smith, it’s a little ho dunk base right above Pearl Harbor in a residential area, nice view
though I’ll give them that. When you look down you can see Pearl Harbor Hickam Air Force
Base which is right in the middle of Pearl Harbor, it’s pretty nice. There was like– It only had
four barracks on the base and like ten houses, it was commander in chief’s Pacific headquarters
and Marine force Pacific headquarters, it might have been 4 or 500 people stationed there. It was
interesting and small, I don’t know it wasn’t too bad. (9:20)
Interviewer: “And you did what there?”
I was an administrative clerk, I worked in the force adjutant when I first got there doing– But
before everything was electronic we got to actually file all the orders and stuff. So ooh that was
fun, and then I worked down in the classified vault for a couple of years, then ended up in the
security manager’s office doing background checks and all that fun stuff, cause you know
somebody’s gotta do it. So a nice wide array of things, went to Korea a couple times for
exercises, got to go to Seoul and Joseon and, you know, see other countries and have some fun.
Interviewer: “And what time frame did you go to Korea?”
‘96, ‘97, they were only for like a month or two each time, it wasn’t– Just some little exercises to
annoy the North Koreans I guess.
Interviewer: “Were you on like ships there or were you–”
�Rowland, Daniel
No we’d fly over and then work in some office, in some base, I don’t remember. The one time
we were in the Korean Marine Corps Base living in GP tents on their dirt soccer field in the
middle of summer and it gets hot over there and to boot the plumbing doesn't take toilet paper
well, yeah you’ve never been to Korea have you?
Interviewer: “I’ve been but–”
And when you wipe you throw it in the trash can next to the toilet and then they would take it out
and burn it. Well we were right downwind from the burn pit, so needless to say that one of my
times in Korea was not the most fun.
Interviewer: “So were you feeling some animosity from the South Koreans or was this just
all by…”
No, that's just the way they did it, I mean they had space– Because their little headquarters was
like on a hill so any flat land you could get was amazing, so we just happened to be right
downwind from the burn pit. (11:07)
Interviewer: “That’s unfortunate.”
Oh yeah cause we had to walk through the bulk of it on our way to chow so by the time you got
there– It was a great dieting technique I guess, you didn’t have to feel the urge to eat.
Interviewer: “So were you working like hand in hand with the South Koreans?”
They were just joint exercises, I mean we were the command element so we didn’t actually go
out and do stuff we were just doing like the fake information would come in and then we would
process it and then disseminate down to lower command of guys actually doing stuff, so nothing
amazing.
�Rowland, Daniel
Interviewer: “And were you like sitting with generals and doing all this or were you just
like sitting in a little tent typing on a thing.”
Well I was representing the security manager so I basically was the guy running around
shredding classified material, nothing too pressing. Yeah my job was not– It sounds all nice but
it’s not as glamorous as one might think.
Interviewer: “Were you like– Did you not enjoy this job? I’m assuming you didn’t sign up
with the Marines to be a clerk.”
When I signed up they gave me one of those job option packages that was air field service
support, so like air traffic control or something, it was legal clerk or administrative clerk. So I’m
like– I was fine with two of them but not the third and I’m sure you can guess which one I got
because I’m like “Woah, hey legal clerk and air traffic controller that sounds kind of fun.” And
based on my scores I’m like– Admin is like, out of three, the dumbest people go to admin and I
don’t know why but whatever, I’m not gonna complain, needs of the Marine Corps. (12:43)
Interviewer: “Fair enough.”
So I got stuck there.
Interviewer: “So your time in Hawaii was pretty uneventful?”
Yeah for the most part, I went to school, I was there because, you know– Of course when I
dropped out of college the first time you know my dad’s like “Oh you’re never gonna finish
now!” So I had to prove him wrong cause I’m just that stubborn.
Interviewer: “What did you get your degree in?”
Associate’s in business and a bachelor’s in social work and then spent my last year, got divorced
while I was there too, let’s just say as a single guy with a year left on the island I had some fun
�Rowland, Daniel
but we won’t go into that because this is a family program apparently and then I got out in–
Went on a terminal leave in ‘98 and came home and got out, went to the IRR, individual ready
reserve and hung out for a while.
Interviewer: “Okay, and–”
I’m just gonna roll into the next part I assume.
Interviewer: “Yeah.”
So employment was like I was trying to– I guess I think of that time that’s when they actually
changed– In Michigan it was weird, you only needed a bachelor’s of social work to work in the
field and then they changed it master’s degree and all that stuff so I’m like– Needless to say
trying to get a job in the field I wanted wasn’t that great so during that time as a reserve Marine I
could volunteer to do active duty every now and then. (14:05) I went a couple places just for like
oh we need somebody here for a month or a month there so I dabbled around and then in 2001
there was an opportunity to go down to North Carolina for six months and I’m like “Okay, I’ll go
down there.” So I signed up and they flew me down and needless to say you know in September
stuff happened and at that time then we went over to– Well I didn’t go but the military went to
Afghanistan and since I was there it was– I volunteered for six months and then since I was there
when 9/11 happened they started calling up all the reserves like “Well while you’re here, here’s
some orders to stay another year.” And then I was officially involuntarily recalled and for the
next– Till 2004, every year I would get additional orders to stay another year, so I was basically
involuntarily activated for two years.
Interviewer: “And how did you feel about that, were you upset?”
I was fine, it’s not like I had a job back home I’m like “Well hey” and yeah when I got there I
was working at– I was originally working for the Marine reserve unit out of Lejeune and then I
got moved up to the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Force Command Element cause a guy I worked
with in Hawaii he’s a colonel now and he’s like “Oh you’re here.” I’m like “Oh, how are you
�Rowland, Daniel
doing?” Cause as you know the military’s actually kind of small, especially the Marine Corps, so
having worked in the security manager’s office in Hawaii he stuck me in the security manager’s
office in Lejeune so– Because they were just starting the office so I’m like “Okay” and by that
time I was a corporal and I basically got to set that up. So that was fun, learning– Basically doing
my old job again which was kind of weird because as an administrative clerk you can work in
pretty much any– You can work with any unit, every unit rated an administrative clerk, you
know they say you do 30 years you don’t do the same job twice so but apparently I got stuck in
the same job again, but you know it pays off in the end.
Interviewer: “So when you were recalled– Or not recalled but when you went down to
North Carolina for the six months was the to do administrative work or were you doing
something else?”
Well yeah I was– They were– They were just, from my understanding I don’t know for sure,
they were– What was it called it was like the Marine augmentation command element, basically
it’s where a bunch of reserve guys, like older higher ranking guys that are retired and were still
reserve. (16:37) It’s like if the command element ever went to war these guys would get called
up to fill in key positions back in the rear. So they were just setting up and they just needed
people to come down and help them set up their infrastructure and stuff so I’m like “Oh, okay.”
Six months, I’d be doing admin stuff no big deal, I needed a job, they needed Marines, I’ll just
go and then like I said 9/11 happened and stuff just got real and you know I was cheap to call up
because I was already there.
Interviewer: “Fair enough.”
And so, then what happened? I don’t know, that was 2001, 2002, then I was dumb and got
married again in 2003. Yeah I got married in February of 2003, they’d just gone over to invade
Iraq in December and my office sent a Marine who apparently doesn’t know how to jump, got
injured getting off a helicopter and they’re like “Oh hey, you’re going over to replace him in
deployment.” I’m like “Okay.” So after being married three weeks I got whisked away to Iraq for
2003 and I worked with the– Well I guess it’d be more commonly called Task Force Tarawa the
�Rowland, Daniel
2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade and when I got to them in March it was the Battle of
Nasiriyah and I was tasked as the assistant security manager of the– Basically the tent where the
general and all his command stuff were and to got over sea this little security element we had and
all this other fun stuff– Oh yeah I was a sergeant by then too, and I would stay there for the next
seven years, we’ll get into that later.
Interviewer: “When you say stay there you mean stay a sergeant, not stay.”
Right, yeah. Yeah not in Iraq, though I was there enough I should’ve bought a summer home. So
yeah just to gloss my own ego more I was a meritorious sergeant yeah.
Interviewer: “Oh okay.”
That’s for the record, because I was such an outstanding jarhead.
Interviewer: “Not astounding enough to be an E6 but–” (18:37)
Oh no but they give E5 and unders away as like candy, like “Oh here, get promoted.” So I was
over there and got in some– Because we were responsible for the bulk of the forces, the Army,
and the 1st Marine Division, went up through Saudi and went north– West and then swung
around to Baghdad, we were supposedly tasked with mop up operations, heading in right south
of Baghdad and then swinging east. So we had all these little small towns and crap but Nasiriyah
was the worst fighting of the invasion. I was not actually in the fight but we were right behind
them, you know command element we basically tell everyone what to do and you could see all
the crap coming back and all the casualties,this, that. I mean it’s not– Nowhere near like a World
War II or Vietnam scenario I think our casualties were only like 100 or less if you do MIAK– Or
wounded and killed so the WAK, I don’t know we gotta work on our acronyms, there’s so many
of them I don’t know.
Interviewer: “So you never saw any of the actual fighting, no one ever attacked the
command element?”
�Rowland, Daniel
Well you could hear and when you went outside you could see cause a lot of it was at night you
could see the, like the artillery, the LAV, the tanks. So the fire fights and stuff because we were
just on the other side of– There’s a river that runs by the bridges and we were on the back end of
it and we could kind of see down you could like see it all going on. So not the same as being
obviously in it so I can’t make any grandiose claims like that but anyway after that then we
moved on. We ended up in some old Iraqi air base by Al Kut, hung out there for a couple months
after the invasion ended, sweat a lot because the desert’s hot in the summer.
Interviewer: “I had no idea.”
Really? You learn something new everyday.
Interviewer: “Exactly.”
And then came home. (20:33)
Interviewer: “So during the actual fighting I’m assuming you weren’t working on security
clearances and that sort of thing.”
No I mean most of it there, most of my job at the end of the day was just making sure the area
was secure, people that came and went had clearances, we didn’t actually process– clearances
were for the rear, you showed up you either had it or you didn’t so it’s nothing amazing. Though
I did get to see how things happened at a command level, you know it was like the fly on the
wall I just like walk in the tent and see everybody doing their jobs like the three shop who is
operations and then all the other guys are like “Oh we need this, we need that, tell them to do
this.” You know like you see war movies and you just see the soldiers are out fighting but you
know actually seeing the puppet masters I guess you’d call them, cause you know if you’re the
down on the front line fighting, you know you just go where you’re told, but seeing how they
make those decisions at the higher level I guess was pretty good for an experience level.
�Rowland, Daniel
Interviewer: “Did you ever have any issues with officers?”
Who doesn’t? No, no not at that time really it was actually– Again the Marine Corps would end
up being small again later on in my career but no at the time no. Well everybody’s so focused on
the job at hand which is, you know war which is kind of why we exist then, you know personal
animosities between each other. Though there was one captain, he was the general’s aide to
camp and he was kind of a douchebag.
Interviewer: “What did he do?”
No he was just a dick.
Interviewer: “Oh, fair enough.”
Well because you know here’s the general making all the decisions and this is basically his
lackey, carry my briefcase and crap. (22:05) So he had nothing else to do but harass us, there
was me, the general’s terp and his driver and we assumed he was crap for no reason. He’s like
“Oh, you know you need a haircut.” And I’m like– Right, right.
Interviewer: “We are at war.”
There are some people, no matter what you’re doing, that want to stick to military protocol like
it’s gonna be the end of the world if you don’t.
Interviewer: “Got it.”
I mean we’re talking about a guy– So like we’re in a town trying to take it over and stuff and he
would find some Iraqi out in town to like, press his camis and pay them like a couple bucks.
Interviewer: “Wow.”
�Rowland, Daniel
Yeah, this– Don’t get me started on it there’s just some people that are like, what? I mean we
were in MOP gear for like over a month, the– I forgot the actual acronym, the biological weapon
cause we were still “Oh he’s got a WMD.” You know so we had on this mop gear for over 30
days, no– I mean we were invading, no showers no– You know baby wipes became our friends.
So we were pretty nasty so like I didn’t get a haircut, really? But anyway that’s– He annoyed me
but that was about it.
Interviewer: “So when you were over in Iraq, other than the administrative work, you
know what did you do after the invasion?”
We sat around for– Cause the invasion was late March, early April and we were there till like the
beginning of July, end of June and we just sat there, that was it. I mean you’re not– I mean
because they’re still having to figure out what they’re gonna do with the country and we’re just
like– We’re hanging out and doing nothing, played lots of spades. (23:48)
Interviewer: “After that what happened, when did you leave?”
We got back on the ships– See they went over in December on the ships and then I, like I said, I
flew over mid deployment and then we had to take the ships back so that was fun, but I got on
the boat and took the longest shower of my life, maybe, but it was nice and then we got to float
home. Yeah, stopped in Lisbon on the way, that was fun.
Interviewer: “What ship were you on?”
The– Was it the Nassau? Yeah I think it was the Nassau, we had the Nassau, the Kearsarge, and I
forget the third ship in our little fleet but it was a hootenanny. Got to go through the Suez canal
and man the guns, hey we’re jarheads what else we got to do right?
Interviewer: “I’m assuming nothing tried to attack you.”
�Rowland, Daniel
No, that’s standard protocol when you’re going through the canals and the stuff is to man the
guns on the side. So whatever but got to go past the rocket gibraltar, that was fun looking, I guess
that you– There’s– I mean you know you’re Navy, all the little weird things like the shell back or
if you cross the equator and this, we got one for going through the city waters and ooh.
Interviewer: “So the military traditions where they kind of haze you and you get a little
reward afterwards.”
Not for that one, you just got it for going through the Suez and the Med, yeah I’ve heard of some
of the things they do and sea bats and all that, we’ll leave that for you to explain for the people to
hear.
Interviewer: “Shell backs a whole different beast.”
No you never heard of the– “Hey we got a sea bat under that container.” And then you go–
Never mind. (25:24)
Interviewer: “Yeah the old, the hazing techniques to make you go just waste your time.”
[overlapping chatter] Hundred yards of flight line I got.
Interviewer: “Go wait for the mail buey, that sort of thing.”
Hey, get me some blinker fluid. No? Okay, keys in the humvee.
Interviewer: “So the Navy was kind of messing with you guys a little bit.”
Well– But that was it though and man I tell you what the Navy cooks are actually pretty good, I
don’t know. Well compared to eating MREs for three months I guess anything was good.
Interviewer: “So after–”
�Rowland, Daniel
And so I get back and, you know that’s it for– So by then I’m married, got a kid on the way, and
I’m still on involuntary order so I’m like “Well, I should probably go.” Cause by this time I had
almost seven years and I’m like “Oh maybe I should go back to active duty.” and that took a year
cause recruiters suck.
Interviewer: “So where were you at for this year? Were you just–”
I was– No I was still recalled reservist back at my old job at Camp Lejeune and that’s when I got
my Navy achievement medal and all the other crap for a job I didn’t even know what I did and
they give them out like candy so like “Oh hey everybody gets one” unless you’re infantry, then
you don’t get anything. So then I try to come back in, takes them a year, I tried going officer too,
that didn’t pan out I don’t know. So apparently– Well whatever, so then I go back then they let
me back in in June of 2004 and I tried going back in as an intelligence analyst because I’m like
I’ve already got the clearance. (26:57) I mean I kinda needed high clearance for my old job and
then I figured– They made me retake the ASVAB and scored perfect and I’m like “Oh okay, I
can get in, this is no problem.” They’re like “Oh, we want you back in but only as infantry.” I’m
like “What?” “It’s the only thing we have open.” So of course I took it cause I got a kid on the
way, I’m marrying, and I gotta provide for my family and then I come to find out later there was
still like openings for the intelligence. Apparently recruiters even treat Marines like 17 year olds
and just meet their quotas, I don’t know but I’m still a little bitter about that.
Interviewer: “That’s understandable. So when–”
I had two college degrees and a 99 on the ASVAB and a top secret clearance, I was like “Why
couldn’t I get the job?” Anyway.
Interviewer: “That is a bit on the ridiculous side.”
So I guess I went in as one of the smaller grunts, that was– Yeah June of 2004, I got to my unit
in August of 2004 2nd Battalion, 6th Marines, 2nd Marine division blah blah and then they stuck
�Rowland, Daniel
me in weapons company. I was going to become an anti armor assault man, 0352 basically we
shoot rockets at tank and at that time they told me “Oh they just got rid of on the job training.”
Which means you could like work work with a unit for six months and get your new job
designation. “So you have to go back to training.” So I’m a sergeant with seven years in and they
sent me to basically back to combat training with a fricken 18 and 18 year old privates.
Interviewer: “That sounds fun.”
Oh it was hootenanny, it wasn’t really that bad there were two corporals over there too and the
instructors pretty much let us like not do all the dumb crap.
Interviewer: “They knew you knew essentially.”
Well considering I outanked most of my instructors I was like, okay you know– Like you know
like no cell phones or no smoking for the privates but then we go hang out with the instructors
behind the buildings and call our wives and smoke cigarettes cause if it wasn’t anything
essential, like especially the first three weeks were basically a rehash of combat training and then
the last four weeks you break up into your specific jobs, they train all the infantry there. (29:05)
So we just went to class and then graduated and went back to our units, it was still fun though,
and that’s when I found out I lost all my time in grade as a sergeant. Yeah I was promoted June
2003 to sergeant, was it? No, 2002 and then when I came back to active duty they reset my date
of rank, which being in the military one of the important parts of getting promoted was time in
grade. So you have to be a certain rank so long before you’re even eligible for the next rank, so I
lost like two and half years' time in grade, that was fun.
Interviewer: “And you couldn’t fight that at all?”
No, even though I was involuntarily activated, that comes in later, this is a big whine fest I think.
So I graduate in October ‘04, go to my unit and then the next– What was it? Yeah it was the next
October, October ‘05 but in that time they send me to sergeants course, some counter terroism
course, all these frickin courses cause apparently they thought I was smart or something, and
�Rowland, Daniel
then October ‘05 we head over to Fallujah, Iraq this was after the push through I think it was
Phantom Fury is what is was called. We’re the first unit to take over the area after the push
through, and at the time I’m like “Oh, I’m gonna be a platoon sergeant.” Because you know I’m
a sergeant and then they’re like “Nope, you’re going to headquarters company.” “What?” And
then they stick me in an entry control point in the middle of Fallujah, basically the city was– I
don’t want to say quarantined or blockade, but to get in the city you had to go through one of six
checkpoints, you know they had to search you, we had a little vehicle. All these, you know kind
of like the TSA but you know not as stupid, so I got stuck there for the deployment. Nothing too
exciting, I had a little satellite outpost where we did commercial traffic, semis and crap, we got
into a fire fight a couple of times because we’re like right on the main highway and right behind
us was like this big gully, I don’t even know. So somebody could just like walk into the city
through it if they were somewhat evasive and they’d walk up and take pot shots at us and that
was not as exciting as it sounds cause you’re on– We did 24 on, 24 off so you’d be bored most of
the time “Ooh search the– Search the big truck full of stones!” We had the long like rebars we
had to stick in their and we’re looking for bombs or something, I don’t know, and then pretty
quiet till March of ‘06. (31:37) Then our main checkpoint got blown up from one of those orange
dump trucks, google it you’ll see them, and somebody decided to blow it up and we only lost one
Marine and a couple of Iraqi guys because we had the Iraqi army and police working with us too,
about 30 wounded because the concrete barriers they like to use like to turn into microscopic
shrapnel, once you have you know a couple thousands of pounds of explosives go off next to it.
So then a couple days all the guys would have the fragments in them from the explosion, started
becoming sick their body was rejecting it, but since I was at the little satellite outposts I went
over– Cause the explosion was– So we were 600 yards from them and it knocked me on my ass,
that’s how big the explosion was and then I got to go over there with some of the Iraqi guys and
it was just like the little building, everything was just knocked the hell down but most of the–
And I don’t– Did they over teach you OPSEC? I assume they teach you OPSEC when you’re in,
you know like if you travel change your routes and stuff. Well our brilliant bosses every day at
the same time was the changeover, when the one team would come out and go off so after six
months of doing the same thing every day they knew when to hit us. So needless to say it was
kind of– And I pointed this out months before but you know I was just an E5 what did I know?
It’s not like seven years being in a security office going to, you know, the naval criminal
�Rowland, Daniel
investigation security managers course, the DSS security managers course, I got certificates a
mile long but no, I didn’t know nothing. Being a security manager for the invasion for a general,
no what did I know cause– I’m gonna try, you know those clover leaves when you get on the
highway, they like wrap around, we were like right in the middle of one so when somebody hits
the on ramp they can look down and it was just– This is something a frickin moron should be
able to look at and be like “That doesn’t seem that secure with the on ramp open.” So whatever,
so I started building an animosity towards officers, more so after that because you know when
they don’t listen it’s like “Really?” But anyways that’s besides the point, and that was the first
time I lost somebody under my command so– Cause technically I was second in charge of that
unit, I had an E7 and then me and then we had like 15 guys under us or whatever so still a little
haunted by that, anyway [unintelligible]
Interviewer: “So stepping back a little bit when it comes to working with the Iraqi police
and–”
Yeah they were pretty good, nothing weird about them just dudes trying to make a living.
Interviewer: “You didn’t worry at all that they might be with any of these groups?” (34:28)
Not at that time, cause we’re talking a couple years after– They, I guess the local government
they had a pretty good way of vetting you know I mean I never had a problem with them. Hell
usually when we closed down the post we’d go– Cause we had a little trailer and these guys, I
don’t know if you ever saw the big shipping containers, they would basically– They built bunk
beds and stuff in there for them because those guys were out there for like a month, they
weren’t– Like after 24 hours we go back to our little base, have our nice little beds and these
poor guys are out there but we’d go in there and we’d smoke hookahs with them and have some
tea, play cards, whatever you know just dudes. They were some– Well let’s just say they loved
cellphones too because they would show some nasty– They’re just red blooded dudes like
anybody else man, they were just trying to make a living to support their families. So for the
most part, no I never had to worry about them, plus yeah I’d also gone through an Arabic course
�Rowland, Daniel
I can even speak the conversational toddler so that was fun too. That’s the way I look at it, I was
never that great at it.
Interviewer: “Did any of the guys under your command have any issues with them like
pick fights with them or anything?”
No, I think initially some guys were worried but after a month or two you find out they’re just
regular guys and there’s nothing bad about them. Which is I guess counterintuitive from what
people have been told but like a lot of guys that would even put the bombs on the side of the road
it’s not like they were fundamentalist terrorists, someone’s like “Hey, here’s a couple hundred
dollars go put this–” But this is the point where they were stop setting them off themselves, it
was the ones where, well the full term would be victim actuated improvised explosive devices,
pretty much like imagine a pressure plate and when you drove over it it would complete the
circuit and blow up. So some of these guys would go and just set them up and the ones that we
would caught they’re not terrorist or anything they’re just like “Oh hey someone paid me X
amount of dollars to do this.” (36:22)
Interviewer: “And what would– Did you ever catch any of these guys yourself?”
Well I mean we didn’t other like units, we were pretty stationary so we weren’t even mobile but
from what I heard a lot of the ones they did catch in the act they were just doing it cause they
were paid, because you know that– During that period of time you know that was before the full
rebuilding effort, it was hard man I could imagine a guy “Hey I need to get food for my family.”
Here a dude “Here’s some money man go put this over by the road.” “Okay.” So it’s– I wish it
was as clean cut as that, oh here’s a bad guy shoot him, but is he a bad guy or just someone down
on his luck, I don’t know. It’s very– It’s always a lot more complicated than people make it out
to be in the media, but anyway but at the end of that then we came home in April of ‘06 and we
did what Marines do, you know run a lot, train a lot, and get ready to go back over the next year
so then we went back in October– I’m sorry April of ‘07. That was the standard fair, go for
seven, eight months, come home for eight or nine and then go back over but eight or nine at
�Rowland, Daniel
home wasn’t– You weren’t home, we had to go to California for a month or two, then we had to
go to Virginia, all this training, go in the field every other week it seemed like, train train train.
Interviewer: “Now going back to the orange dump truck, did you guys– Did that at least
spark some change?”
Not really.
Interviewer: “Like did you guys move the security point at that point, better off site?”
No they had it rebuilt within 24 hours, they closed the on ramp, that was it. We were gone within
a month so nobody seemed to care.
Interviewer: “Okay, and–”
The prevailing attitude is if you’re a lower rank you’re expendable, I mean that’s the– (38:08)
Let’s call it what it is, your job is to die for the cause and if you do they’ll just “Hey, we got guys
back at the base we’ll just fill in the roster.” Cause that’s all they did, when everybody got his I
think four or five of us out of 30 people between the two crews, like three or four of us stayed
out there and they just replaced them with a bunch of other dudes, it was like we didn’t miss a
beat, you know can’t stop operations man, mission accomplishment and all that crap. So yeah
they closed down the ramp, engineers rebuilt the place in like a couple of hours and hey we’re up
and running again. Military efficiency, whooo! I mean that’s just the way it works man, which I
understand but then it seems like the lack of– I understand that you have to do what you have to
do, I get that but then it seems like even afterwards when you do have time to breathe, no one
else really seems to give a crap, is that? Now obviously in old school conventional wars when
you had to push through, push through yeah you didn’t have time and I get that but like what we
were doing, out of seven months you know six and a half of it was pretty damn boring. So
needless to say we– You know but there’s always downtime especially when we’re home within
a month it’s like, okay thanks for not giving a shit.
�Rowland, Daniel
Interviewer: “So, you went home, you did your year of training.”
Yeah and then we went back, this time I actually was a platoon sergeant and I got my own 24
guys, six we were a mobile assault platoon, five gun trucks in a high back, basically a pickup
truck with big walls and we got to travel around and try to find interesting people and shoot
them. So that was a hoot but things are really quieted down by that compared to the last time, I
think the first time I was in Fallujah everything was blowing up and there were roadside bombs
like every five feet it seemed like but the second time it was actually pretty quiet.
Interviewer: “Were you again near Fallujah?”
We were in the same exact spot.
Interviewer: “Same on ramp and everything?” (40:10)
Well no that was entry control point, this time I was actually with the weapons company with an
actual mobile assault platoon but I mean we were on the same forward operating base, some of
us were sleeping in the same beds we were a year before. We were exactly back, the only
difference was the first time we were there the city was like divided up into three areas and all
these different units had a different area of responsibility. When we went back we had the whole
city to ourselves, it had calmed down that much, so we’re like “Okay” and for the most part, like
I think the first time we were there we lost ten or 12 guys maybe, there was actually a sniper out
there in January too when we were there, he killed a couple guys, mostly Iraqi police, Iraqi army.
I think we lost a couple guys and so we had– So we lost about ten to 15 guys and I think we had
about 20 wounded, the second time we were there I think we lost two, maybe three, but one of
them was a– We were there like not even a week and some engineer that had been attached to
our unit, new guy, went to a porta chuter and offed himself.
Interviewer: “Jeez.”
�Rowland, Daniel
Not– And then another one some dude was driving down the road really fast and his humvee hit
a dune and the guy got thrown out the back and killed, so two of our KIAs were through
accidents or self-inflicted injuries. So I guess you don’t count those when you’re talking killed in
action which is normally enemies but this time no.
Interviewer: “I mean it’s still people dying.”
I understand the sympathy from regular but when you’re in that scenario it’s like– Well one died
cause they were stupid like don’t speed in your humvee down the road, you know so he was a
casualty of stupid and the other was, you know I guess he got there and he couldn’t hack it, we
had only been there a week. So is it sad? Yes but can I feel sympathy towards him? Not really, I
mean if you don’t want to go I understand that but like we had guys that were more creative, they
were like self inflicting injuries before we left like dropping weights on their feet and breaking
their feet. Oh that’s fine, then you get charged for malingering but still you don’t have to go.
Interviewer: “I mean–” (42:22)
I’m just saying if you don’t want to go to Iraq there’s things you can do before we even leave
where you’re not offing yourself, I’m just saying callous but when you’ve been over the multiple
times and you’ve seen your friends die from enemy action and crap, it’s hard to feel sympathy
for other people, like you knew what you were getting into when you signed up especially in
2007, 2008 I mean we’d already been at war for like six, seven years it’s like if you signed the
dotted line and didn’t think you were going why’d you sing up? It’s not like they were drafted it
was still all volunteer force, it sounds cold but given the circumstances you probably know what
you’re getting into, and besides he was like a– He was a motor team mechanic or an engineer it’s
not like they ever left the base, again not trying to be a dick but you know from my perspective
it’s like oh I gotta go out into town two, three times a day and potentially get shot at and you’re
sitting here, you know on the base really not doing anything, and by then we had a nice chow
hall, I mean like salad bar, sandwich bar nice even brought in the guys from Indy to work it for
us, it was pretty swank.
�Rowland, Daniel
Interviewer: “So when you were going out and, you know as you said it, searching for
interesting people to meet and shoot did you have a lot of action?”
Not as much as one would think but it seemed the other units–Or the other platoons always got
the fun stuff, hell it was our first week, we got there and then we ripped with the unit we were
replacing which is like ride along, riding along, basically like they go out and then like your
leaders will ride with them and then you’ll slowly phase in your guys and replace theirs. I think it
was about the second week we’re driving down the road and we get called to go to an incident
and somebody had been driving on the road, some idiot and I use these terms with endearment,
had an accident in the convoy and wandered off onto a dirt road and gotten belly shotted. By this
time the insurgent tactics had moved to burying IEDs in the road so, you know general protocol
was don’t drive down dirt roads. Well somebody did and belly shotted a humvee and we got to
go clean it up.
Interviewer: “By that you mean they drove over it and the bomb went off under?” (44:47)
Yeah the– If I was– Me standing in the blast like my head stuck up, I don’t know if they buried it
that deep or it was the explosion cause I mean I don’t even know what ammunition they used we
were just there for clean up. So most time you think the 155 shells or whatever, you know where
the charge could blow up but this could’ve been one the blew up and down and made the hole
deeper, I don’t know, but yeah we got to pick up a couple guys in ziploc bags, take them to the
main base morgue, and I think half of our guys were like new, so we kind of like left them over
the road while we collected things and them brought them back but like it was– It was just
sloppy, it always seemed– Cause as a mobile assault platoon we were more– We were too fast
for like them to just sit down and ambushes, that’d be more for like the foot patrols. We were
more reactionary so we always showed up when things were going on or just finished that was
kind of our job, or to project a military presence.
Interviewer: “Basically you would go around.”
�Rowland, Daniel
Is that the correct term that they use, or projecting force, I don’t know. So and then another time,
this one’s funny, we had a– There was a big intersection of Fallujah and the Iraqi police, I don’t
even like know stoplights, they made like this little plywood– I’m trying to think of what you–
You know just imagine like a little plywood like tool booth if you would, a little bigger with a
roof on it and surrounded by sandbags and you know they’re out there directing traffic or
whatever and somebody takes– I guess sidestep, our commander, the battalion commander, they
basically more effectively cinched off the city to prevent you know ammunition and bombs
coming in. So– And it worked because eventually the insurgents in the city started making their
own, it was some yellow powder I don’t remember, but anyway this little bongo truck– It looks
like a roller skate, just google bongo truck and you’ll see they’re ridiculously small, this thing
was loaded with barrels of this explosive and he’s rolling down the road, runs into this Iraqi
police post and detonates. Now the one thing apparently insurgents can’t do is make their own
explosives, so the stuff in the cab went off, nothing else did. So he hits this little post of these
guys, I think one dude ended up breaking his leg just from the force of the impact but that was it.
(47:23) We get called up and we gotta cordon off the area and secure it, cause you know it’s still
explosive, so we’re just sitting there looking at this little blue bongo truck and inside the cab it’s
just messy because the guy managed to blow himself up and it’s just, you know guts and gore
over the– All over the windows and of course we found it hilarious, it’s like if you’re gonna die
for the cause fine but you know i expect you want to take more than just yourself with you. Of
course the downside is all this stuff spilled over the road, we had to wait for explosives ordnance
guys to come out and clean it up and I think we spent like 12 hours out there it was so boring.
One time like a dog runs by and runs away with a guy’s hand and yeah go ahead and laugh it
was– Now at this point you’re in country a few months, you’re just bored, you’re just laughing
so hard cause they open the door to try to, you know check the detonation device and all that
other stuff and it’s– So yeah we had fun too.
Interviewer: “Were you still on pretty good terms with the Iraqi police and military
there?”
Yeah I mean they were– Well I mean the police are from the area, the Iraqi army would normally
be from a different part of the country cause I guess you’d look at it like– If you think back to the
�Rowland, Daniel
Civil War they’d have like, you know the Michigan whatever unit, they’re all from the same
town wherever, and that’s the way the Iraqi army was. So– And they would bring in guys from a
different part of the country because they didn’t know anyone locally but the Iraqi police were
local. Yeah they were pretty good guys, no problems there I mean–
Interviewer: “What about the civilians?”
You know what they’re just people trying to live their lives man, for the most part they just did
what they did and we just went around. I mean it comes to this, if you weren’t dicks to them or
you weren’t, you know if you weren’t overly– If you just treat them like people you got along
fine, you know there’s a lot of– I’m sure we’ve all heard stories of the military that were over
there and like being over dickish, I don’t know if it was just because the Middle Easterners in
general were dehumanized or because they were just– I mean I don’t know but no they were just
regular people. Hell we would normally stop for– Grab lunch from a little place down on– I
mean we name the streets after like– I mean you can’t pronounce Iraqi but like north to south–
Yeah north to south had female names and east to west had male names but like the main drag
was called [sounds like “Frayen”] and there’s a little guy running a kebab shop there and we’d
pop in and get some lunch every couple of days whenever we’re around. (50:03) He was a nice
guy, give him money, we get food and it was pretty good food, jeez wonder if there’s any good
kebab shops around here, anyway– Hey man.
Interviewer: “Now you’ve got me wanting kebabs.”
I know right cause, you know what cause the stuff was fresh like right next door was an actual
butcher’s shop. I mean all our stuff is processed as hell, and here you are, you know you pull up
to the kebab shop, you hear the cows and goats mooing next door like okay I guess it’s fresh.
Interviewer: “So you didn’t ever really worry that one of these guys is gonna attack you or
anything?”
�Rowland, Daniel
It comes down to two mindsets, you can either– If you’re gonna worry about it you’re gonna
worry all the time and you’re just gonna go crazy or you’re gonna be so hyper tense all the time
you’ll snap, or you’re just like if it happens it happens, you know if you’re comfortable in your
training– I mean they call it muscle memory when you do something enough but it also applies
to other things like if you hear a gunshot or you hear an explosion you should instinctively know
how to react and if you trust that training, then you just don’t worry about it. I mean you’re
worried but you’re not– You know, otherwise you’re that paranoid guy who thinks the FBI is
listening to his thoughts through the, you know dentures in his mouth and that’s not a good way
to go or you’re– It’s gonna be a long ass seven months, he just eventually if it happens it
happens.
Interviewer: “Were you guys ever ambushed?”
Directly no, I mean we had a couple IEDs once, nothing huge like I hit one and blew out the tire
I think was unconscious a couple minutes but by then we had the new humvees like the doors
were like thicker and all this crap. So it like scratched the paint cause it was– Because it was
where we were driving on the main street and we would like go down to one end of the city and
come back, it really wasn’t that big but we went down and by the time we came back apparently
somebody put it there. (52:00) I mean it wasn’t like hey cause we drove and then we turned
around and came back driving the same path that we did and then drove over it and it blew. So
it’s like somebody– It’s like when you’re watching T.V and somebody throws out those little
spike strips that the cops do, that’s how quick he must have done it because it was right next to
an open field. So the guy must have sprinted out– After we drove by the first time must have
sprinted out, dropped it, ran back, I don’t know it was weird.
Interviewer: “And no one got injured in that cause of the–”
No, we blew like two or three tires on the humvee but we just pulled into one of our little bases,
swapped them out, and on our way again. Nice and quick, nice and painless, that deployment
was actually pretty laid back except for, you know stupid lieutenants but, you know. Oh my
lieutenant was an idiot, oh I know I have to explain it.
�Rowland, Daniel
Interviewer: “Yeah– I mean you don’t have to but–”
He’s the kind of guy– Like we go out and do two or three patrols a day, and he would “Okay”
show up 45 minutes early to our staging area and then he pulled out the map and he’d be
pointing “This is the route–” We would get objectives, like “Oh, we want you to check this spot,
this spot, this spot by the command– By the head shed.” And then he would map out all the
directions and we’re like “Why don’t we just go as long as we make all our checkpoint?” And he
started like “Oh let’s drive down this road, this road.” “Those are dirt roads.” You know hey
didn’t we first learn this lesson when we got in the country, and then– So I was the kind of guy I
would tell my lead truck guy like– Cause all of my vehicle commanders had been there before,
this like I said this is their second time in Fallujah and I’m like “Yeah just as long as we’re
making the checkpoints drive however you want to get there.” That created a lot of tension
between me and the lieutenant, I didn’t give a crap because I don’t want to get belly shotted. We
saw how this works, so screw him, and he was one of the pretentious assholes, pardon my
language.
Interviewer: “Did he try to get back at you for this?” (53:57)
Oh yeah I mean they always do that, you know you get in trouble for– I don’t know about this,
you get in trouble or you do something they don’t agree with but it’s not against the rules so then
they make up some shit to get back at you later. I mean nothing bad like I didn’t get a bad fitness
report or anything but yeah he was one of those guys. He graduated from one of those prestigious
schools and he didn’t– Whatever, I don’t care, he was a dick. So he– Yeah that created a lot of
crap between me and him but I didn’t care, all my guys made it home, I mean I think the worst
thing to happen to one of our guys is he got appendicitis, whoop-dee-doo, but then you always
have the commanders and like we had a 1st sergeant that was really bored. I love this rule, so we
lived in this old– It’s called Camp Baharia, it was an old bath party luxury resort it had like man
made lakes in it and stuff. Apparently Saddam used to have like race boat– Or speed boat races
and crap so all these little huts and stuff and you know after the war all the Iraqi siblings came
and like stole it all like the plumbing, the windows, all this crap. So we just have these shells of
�Rowland, Daniel
buildings and they have the porta crappers across the road from where we live and our 1st
sergeant’s like “Don’t leave your little house unless you’re at least in PT gear!” So one day one
of my guys he woke up, goes to the bathroom, he's just in his shorts, and he got a page 11 for
doing that.
Interviewer: “Page 11 is?”
Basically a reprimand in your file, so yeah cause he woke up and had to pee he got in trouble for
not putting a shirt on to go across the street in the middle of summer, in 130 degree weather,
yeah I know right.
Interviewer: “Seems legit.”
These are people that, again goes back to the kind of person, I got– Cause everything we did was
at a platoon level or lower so the company staff, they got really bored and they would do stuff
like enforce stupid ass rules. Alright maybe not– It– Whatever I think they’re stupid “Hey we’re
in a war zone! Don’t forget to put your shirt on.” Cause you gotta go to the bathroom (56:15)
Interviewer: “So pretty much nothing really that eventful happened at that point.”
Nothing, nothing exciting, or at least not to us I mean other of our platoons they’ll get into
firefights. I guess one time they were driving– One guy– One unit was driving down a road and
they have a– Fallujah’s got like a little industrial section in the southeast like all warehouses and
stuff, they were driving down there some guys come out of a building wearing suicide vests and
they were looking at each other and then our guys just turned their guns and started shooting at
them, see we missed all the fun stuff, I don’t know.
Interviewer: “That’s–”
Alright it’s not fun in general but when you’re in an armored vehicle and somebody’s shooting at
you with AK-47s and is still far enough where the suicide vests won’t actually do anyhting and
�Rowland, Daniel
all you have to do is rotate your 50 caliber machine gun down the alley and fire. I mean 50
caliber bullets are pretty– They’re lethal for like, you know small armored vehicles let alone
people, there’s not much left of you. So you always hear those stories and you’re like “Why
wasn’t I there?”
Interviewer: “So when did you leave?”
We left October of ‘07, got back and then that was pretty much the highlight of my career. I
reenlisted a couple months later and my choices were I could stay with the unit and get a $20,000
bonus or I could pick my own duty station. Well my dumbass picked the– My own duty station
cause who needs 20 grand? Well also the mentality of I’ve been over three times and managed to
still be alive, I don’t want to push my luck.
Interviewer: “Fair enough.”
Plus at that point my son was about four or five and I basically missed half his life, like when we
got back my third time I went to pick him up and he was crying because he didn’t know who the
hell I was, that’s depressing. (58:07) So I’m like “Yeah I’ll stay stateside for a while.” And then
I ended up being– Where the hell was it? Camp Johnson which is kind of a weird cyclical thing,
that was the base I went to originally to learn to be an administrative clerk.
Interviewer: “Where was that at?”
It’s like right next to Camp Lejeune in North Carolina, there’s like Camp Lejeune and then
there’s Camp Johnson, Camp Geiger, the air station. Camp Geiger is where they train the
infantry, Camp Johnson’s where they teach the mechanics, the administrative clerks, the
financial clerks, and the box kickers– Warehouse guys, their school’s two week it’s like “Why
are you even here?” So I basically ended back up where I started and the only jobs there for
grunts were sergeant of the guard, basically before a Marine goes into job training if there’s not a
class starting they stick them in a barracks and make them little crap jobs like, you know like
“Oh hey go help the maintenance guys.” Or go to– Well we got 40 guys to stand around and tell
�Rowland, Daniel
the Marines their shirts are tucked in, it was pretty mindless but I was fine with that because I
didn’t– I wanted mindless I wanted to be home and, pretty much not that exciting, I just sat
around with a bunch of other– Of course the problem was is the mentality, there were like seven
of us there, there were guys from 1st Battalion 6th Marines, 3rd Battalion and me and we’d all–
We’d actually all been in Iraq together, all of our units around, so our mentality was different
than a bunch of guys learning to be, you know accountants. So needless to say there were
multiple classes, though my first year there was probably my greatest year in the Marine Corps.
My immediate– My commanding officer was a guy I had served with during the invasion, so
again back to the small world. So yeah I got to basically get away with murder and I’m not
saying I did anything wrong but we had pretty lax guidelines at this point. When guys you had
served with in combat are your bosses, but it was all– Our sergeant major was about the top
enlisted guy, was actually with 3-6, he was like 5”1, his actual last name was Meanie, he was
single and he rode a Harley. Yes, everything you can imagine, he would have like an NCO call
for all the corporals and sergeants and he would be like “Well first two kegs are on me.” You
know the kind of senior enlisted guy that you only hear of in like fantasies and like I think he
was within six months. We were at a physical training thing and some 1st sergeant pissed him off
so he laid him out. (1:00:52)
Interviewer: “Like hit him?”
Yeah, from what I hear, and then he got transferred to a deploying unit which I think in hindsight
is what he wanted, I mean he was those kind of guy he could– You could like just drop him off
in Iraq and he would live there because he’s that kind of guy, but yeah but once those guys
started leaving then we got the pricks and that’s essentially where my career ended because I
couldn’t get promoted to staff sergeant. In the Marine Corps if you don’t make E6 by 13 you’re
out so.
Interviewer: “Okay so you were forcibly discharged.”
I was– I was unable to reenlist, but and then that goes back to when they took my two and half,
three years time in grade because as an infantry Marine you normally had to be in a sergeant for
�Rowland, Daniel
two or three years before you’re even eligible for promotion and by the time– So that was ‘04 so
I was, I think it was in the– In the Marine Corps you have Marines in the zone, below zone and
above zone so like they need a hundred dudes, they’ll put 200 guys in the zone, and that’s all
based on how long you’ve been and E5 and I think my first year I was in the below zone. That’s
basically like “Oh we can’t find enough good guys we’ll go down here and look.” So by the time
I was– And that just happened to coincide with the downsizing, they were gonna cut 20 or
30,000 Marines. They were promoting 400 Marines in my job a year, the year I was finally
eligible they cut it down to 90, it was like– So that along with my lost time in grade, you know I
should’ve been eligible for promotion two years earlier but now it was like, it was just a cluster
fudge and it kind of– Came to and end, which I was fine with because I was unable to reenlist
through no fault of my own, they gave me a nice severance package which was fun. I mean if
you’re gonna get out–
Interviewer: “You might as well get a severance from it right?”
Yeah but at the end of the day I, at that point I think I had 15 years in, a year and half later they
offered 15 year retirements.
Interviewer: “That’s unfortunate.” (1:02:55)
Oh I know right, but anyway that was pretty much the bulk of it.
Interviewer: “So that was your last duty station then you separated? What’d you do
after?”
Farted around a while, I bought a house in Jacksonville where Camp Lejeune is and of course in
2010, guess what happened in 2008. I went with downsizing, the housing market was just– So I
couldn’t leave, it was so sad because living in a military town when you’re no longer in the
military is like ehhh. Bummed around a while and then I finished my first master’s degree, I’d
started when I was in Iraq the third time, I was bored and like “I’m going to school.” And then I
don’t know, stuff just happened, I got sick of living there and then you learn the whole “It’s who
�Rowland, Daniel
you know” adage, like I would try to apply for the jobs on base and never seem to get them, but
now it’s just me whining.
Interviewer: “I mean the transition from civilian– Or military to civilian is hard.”
Well in a military town like that the jobs paid crap because there’s always an overabundance of
workers, military spouses and stuff so they can pay you less money because if you quit or you
get fired they got ten more lined up in the back. So the jobs just sucks and any good jobs on base
it’s who you knew, like one time there was an educational counselor job open at the base
education center, you know I had a bachelor’s in counseling and a master’s in education, I didn’t
get an interview. Things like that you know and after that I just gave up and eventually “Well
let’s just pack it in and move.” So when my marriage started going south, my second one, I just
grabbed my kid and moved back here to Michigan and said “Hey let’s go back to school again.”
Cause they gave me an extra year free, G.I bill so nothing amazing.
Interviewer: “And that’s what you’re doing now?”
Yeah I’m going to school and running into people like you who ask me to do things like this,
which isn’t bad I guess, taking worthless English classes. (1:04:50)
Interviewer: “So nothing– The military didn’t really prepare you for the civilian life?”
I’m– In the general context they do not, for me it– I mean this is gonna sound egotistical again
but I didn’t need them too because I’d done four years and gotten out the first time, then I went
back in, then when I got out the next time, you know– I think the best thing that prepared me for
transition was still living in a military town and knowing how it is, and then by the time I get
back up here it’s a totally different community like for one you know people around here
actually like veterans. Well when you’re in a military town they’re like “Who cares you’re a
veteran get the hell out of my face.” So no they put you through like a three day class when you
get out “Here’s how you do a resume, this is how you do this, this is how–” You know there’s
no– They give you information that you can find on your own they don’t actually– It’s like
�Rowland, Daniel
coming back from combat, they’re like “hey don’t beat your family members.” You know they
don’t actually transition you from a combat scenario back to, you know peacetime or back to life
back in the states, it’s done really poorly.
Interviewer: “Was that hard for you?”
Not for me but for everyone cause I mean having the– I think it was easier for me because my
first time in Iraq I didn’t really see combat but I got enough of it to know what was going on so
when I went back the second time I knew what to expect plus having, you know the self– Cause
having like the degree in social work I already knew the generic psychological aspects, all this
and that so I could help prep myself but it was just one of those weird things where what I
already knew just happened to fit what I was going to do. It’s really weird how it all came
together but I could also see at the same time that for the regular guys coming back that it wasn’t
anything special, it wasn’t anything– It was one of those dichotomies it’s like you know come
back if you’re feeling sad or whatever talk to somebody but yet at that time if you went and like
saw a shrink your career is pretty much over. They’ve destigmatized a lot in the last five, ten
years but at that time they’re telling you to do but everybody else knew if you did you’re pretty
much done. (1:07:18) So, I don’t know, that’s where you see the transition of what it was like to
what it is and I know– To my understanding it’s still not that great now but yeah from military to
civilian life good luck with that. I mean they don’t really– They tell you a lot of things but they
don’t actually tell you– Help you– Having the information and using that information in a
meaningful manner are two different things, so it’s like you know you come back “Here, have a
book. Get the hell out.” You know it’s like it’s not the same thing as actually helping someone
transition. So once you get those discharge papers, you know go away, I don’t care anymore you
are no longer under my command, get the F out I don’t care. So now you’re out there alone
you’re like “Who do I go to?” You have to find out all this on your own, like nobody tells you
that there’s veterans service officers, that you can go to the American legion, the VFW, the DAV
and all these other accessible things. They may mention them in passing but they don’t actually
tell you what they do, what they can offer, all this other stuff but whatever hey that’s just the
military. Once you’re no longer able to die for your country they don’t give a crap.
�Rowland, Daniel
Interviewer: “So are you– Would you recommend the military to someone?”
It depends on the person, what you want and what you’re willing to do.
Interviewer: “How would you feel about your son joining the military?”
I’d tell him to join the Air Force.
Interviewer: “Fair enough.”
If he joined the Marine Corps I’d smack him upside the head, like I was stupid you don’t need to
be stupid, or if you could do it in a capacity which you can maximize your benefits but minimize
your risks, I mean again that sounds kind of selfish or something but at the end of the day, you
know I don’t want my kid signing up and going off to die, I mean I don’t think anybody does,
but if he wants to join, get some job experience, some military expereince, and some money for
college well that’s great but if that’s all you want out of it– Like don’t join and enlist in the Army
as a soldier you know as an infantry. That’s the dumbest thing but some people like that and
again that’s why I’m saying it depends on the person. (1:09:30) If somebody’s all gung ho I want
to serve my nation and go to war well hot damn sign up, become infantry if that’s what you want
but some people– And it’s the aptitude as well, some people just they could be the smartest
person in the room but if they’re unable to listen to authority and keep their mouth shut, not a
good choice but that’s just me.
Interviewer: “Alright, that just about wraps us up, was there anything else you wanted to
say?”
No, I’m good.
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Veterans History Project
Creator
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Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
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Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
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Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
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Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
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RHC-27
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eng
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
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RowlandD2291V
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Rowland, Daniel
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2018-12
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Rowland, Daniel (Interview transcript and video), 2018
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Daniel Rowland was born in 1975 in Grand Rapids, Michigan and decided to enroll in the Marine Corps after his third semester in college. In 1995 Rowland attended boot camp in San Diego, California where he acted as the guide to recruits, After basic training, Rowland was sent to Camp Pendleton to complete Marine combat training. After completing Marine combat training, Rowland was sent to job training in North Carolina where he received training to become an administrative clerk. Rowland then spent three and a half years stationed in Hawaii at Camp Smith working as an administrative clerk. During this time, Rowland would be sent for occasional brief missions in South Korea. While he was stationed in Hawaii, Rowland also received his associate’s degree in business and bachelor’s degree in social work. In 1998 Rowland returned home and left active duty, joining the individual ready reserves where he did occasional active duty. One of these active-duty missions was a mission to go to North Carolina in 200. Due to the events of 9/11, this resulted in Rowland being involuntarily activated for two years during which he worked in a security manager’s office as an administrative clerk. In 2003 Rowland was deployed to Iraq as part of the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade as the assistant security manager. After returning from Iraq to the United States by boat, Rowland decided to return to active duty as an infantryman in 2004. In 2005 Rowland’s unit was sent to Fallujah, Iraq working in headquarters company, and in 2006 Rowland came home for a year before being sent back to Fallujah, Iraq for a third time. Rowland returned home to the United States in 2007 and was stationed at Camp Johnson as a sergeant of the guard before being forcibly discharged and going on to return to school and resume civilian life.
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Leroy-Rollins, Koty (Interviewer)
WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.)
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States—History, Military
Veterans
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Vietnam War, 1961-1975—Personal narratives, American
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Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)
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Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401.
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eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c1c4311f80fd91c87c8f6df7c4fe518e.mp4
fd90bd5780920385eb90fde8c63b63c4
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a832471d08964179a01a9da0de3e357d.pdf
a9172b9d8f95408ed38b1c237b1b205d
PDF Text
Text
Rowland, Daniel
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: Iraq War
Interviewee’s Name: Daniel Rowland
Length of Interview: (1:09:57)
Interviewed by: Koty Leroy Rollins
Transcribed by: Maluhia Buhlman
Interviewer: “I’m here with Daniel Rowland from Comstock Park and the interviewer is
Koty Leroy Rollins of the Grand Valley State Veterans History Project. Alright Daniel let’s
just jump into this, when were you born and where at?”
Well I was born in Grand Rapids in 1975, July time frame, at least that’s what my parents told
me, they could be wrong I don’t know.
Interviewer: “You never know. So what was your early life like? What–” (00:57)
Ah pretty mundane, I mean pretty common, went to school, grew up, had an older brother who
liked to, you know be an older brother we’ll just leave it at that. Nothing too exciting.
Interviewer: “Alright, when did you enlist and what led you to that choice?”
My brother had enlisted in the Marine Corps and I’m like “Oh that’s cool.” Then I– The sad fact
was I actually applied for an ROTC scholarship and got a full ride to North Carolina State
University and my lack of discipline led me to drop out and enlist.
Interviewer: “Okay, so you enlisted after spending how much time in college?”
Three semesters, cause apparently if you go to college on the government’s dime and don’t
finish, you owe them money, or you enlist.
�Rowland, Daniel
Interviewer: “Sounds about right, did your brother like, tell you all these cool stories, did
he prep you for boot camp or anything?”
Nah, he only went in about a year and a half before me, I mean he told me things but in
retrospect I think he was just messing with me.
Interviewer: “What type of things did he tell you then?”
Oh it’s not that hard, it’s fun and you know typical big brother taunting the little brother things as
you follow his footsteps. That makes it not as enjoyable as one would think.
Interviewer: “Okay, so what was boot camp like then were you prepared for it at all?”
In general yeah I mean it’s not– Physically it wasn’t that hard but you know coming from three
semesters in ROTC I kind of already knew the drill of stuff. (2:30) So this is gonna sound self
aggrandizing to a certain extent but like I think it was about two weeks in they made me the
guide for the platoon and I ended up doing that because I already knew a lot of the stuff like
ranks and all that because like I said the three semester in ROTC kind of gave me a head start on
everything that they teach you, common Marine Corps history, Navy ranks, Marine Corps ranks,
how to march, of course that might of been nine years of marching band too but either way– I
was a geek.
Interviewer: “So you were pretty prepared.”
For the general knowledge and physical aptitude but I’m sure as you know being a former Navy
is– No matter how much you know being prepared is not as easy as it sounds especially when
you’re the guide, somebody messes up you get punished.
Interviewer: “And stepping back just a little bit one thing I forgot to ask, did you have any
family history of military or were you and your brother like the first.”
�Rowland, Daniel
I had an uncle serve in Vietnam but he died there and I never knew him so I couldn’t say, and
then my other uncle was in the Air Force for two years but he went to Germany, came home and
he had some pretty weird stories but we won’t go there, Germans are weird apparently.
Interviewer: “Yeah, so it was just you and your brother then for the most part?”
Yeah from the immediate family, nobody– Yeah, nobody else I knew served, I know my dad
tried but got 4Fed cause bad feet or something and then I know my grandpa tried and “We need
you home!” World War II but nobody– Nobody seemed to be able to get in until me and my
brother.
Interviewer: “Fair enough, now when you say 4F you mean like medically.”
Right, yeah between his eyes and his feet I guess they didn’t want him. Back then– They weren’t
as accepting back then of medical– Of any little medical condition where nowadays anybody–
Cause they can fix most things, here have some new shoes. (4:22)
Interviewer: “So going back to the boot camp thing you said you were the guide, was that
like the leader of the cadets or what was that?”
Yeah, I don’t know what did they call it. Yeah it’s you’re the head recruit, I guess you could say
“in charge” but you really weren’t, you were pretty much the top– You’re pretty much who the
drill instructors told to get stuff done and who to delegate.
Interviewer: “And you were the one that got in trouble when someone else messed up.”
Oh yeah, there were mornings I would be up before the rest of the platoon getting thrashed
because someone messed up during the night or something, I don’t know, I don’t remember.
Interviewer: “When you say getting thrashed do you mean like PT or like–”
�Rowland, Daniel
Yeah, no they don’t– They were not allowed physical contact but they could make you run in
place, do push ups, there were four exercises, funnel kicks, push ups, run in place, don’t
remember the fourth one off the top of my head but basically you did it until your arms were
jelly and you couldn’t do anything else.
Interviewer: “And this was in ‘95?”
Yeah.
Interviewer: “Okay.”
I’m sure they still kind of do– I mean it was the Marine Corps, you gotta be hard ass I guess
would be the term nowadays.
Interviewer: “So pretty much everything else other than that you were good at, you knew.”
(5:35)
I wouldn’t say “good at” but I knew enough to not have to, you know worry about it, how's that
sound.
Interviewer: “Did you have any issues with the other recruits, I know sometimes they don’t
take–”
Well being the guide yeah sometimes like you’d have the one they just couldn’t get anything
right or was moving too slow and you either had to help them out or get trashed more, I was in
pretty good shape when I got out of boot camp.
Interviewer: “Alright so when– Once you graduated boot camp what did you move onto?”
�Rowland, Daniel
Marine combat training which is three weeks of just basic cause every Marine is a rifleman so
we had to basically go somewhere and spend three weeks in the field and living in tents and
walking through woods, nothing amazing.
Interviewer: “Nothing fun happened there?”
Well one time it rained so hard that we had to come back from out of the field, when we went
back the next day finding all our gear in the mud was fun. Yeah it was out in California, oh joy
oh joy.”
Interviewer: “So it was out in California.”
Yeah it was the one with flashlights, I think it was I don’t know.
Interviewer: “So you– Where did you go to boot camp at?” (6:42)
San Diego, I was a Hollywood Marine as they call it.
Interviewer: “So you went all the way from Michigan to San Diego for boot camp?”
Yep and I came home for ten days, went back out to Camp Pendleton for the combat training.
Interviewer: “Alright, and where’d you go after that?”
Went to North Carolina for my job training, which I was initially an administrative clerk, yay. I
know right I got to learn how to type.
Interviewer: “That’s fun.”
And file things.
�Rowland, Daniel
Interviewer: “So nothing exciting happened there?”
Well it was kind of fun, my brother was stationed at Camp Lejeune and when everybody else had
to stay on the base when we got there I got to leave for the weekend and it really pissed people
off because, you know reasons and then well I ended up meeting– I ended up getting married at a
job training, I met a female Marine that was going to school as well, let’s just say that didn’t end
well but I’ll just leave that at that.
Interviewer: “Fair enough.”
What if we’re gonna talk about it might as well just throw it all out there right?
Interviewer: “Hey, it’s your story.”
Then I drove cross country and went to Hawaii for three and a half years. (7:50)
Interviewer: “Why did you have to drive cross country?”
Well I bought– See that was one thing my brother was good for he was a tia– Traffic
management office or whatever, he’s the guy that ships stuff around and when we graduated job
training they’re like “You can only take like two sea bags with you.” And then I asked my
brother and he’s like “Nah man you can ship whatever you want, car or whatever.” So I bought a
car, drove across the country, had it shipped out of San Francisco and went to Hawaii cause I’m
like– Cause you know how they are they want to tell all the new guys “Oh no you can’t do this
or that.” I mean if I was gonna be there for three and a half years I’m gonna have some stuff.
Interviewer: “Fair enough.”
For some reason cars in Hawaii are way overpriced.
Interviewer: “I can confirm that.”
�Rowland, Daniel
I assume it’s shipping costs.
Interviewer: “That and just everything is expensive in Hawaii that’s just how it goes.”
Oh yeah, it was expensive 20 years ago when I was there I can only imagine today.
Interviewer: “So, where’d you get stationed at in Hawaii?”
Camp Smith, it’s a little ho dunk base right above Pearl Harbor in a residential area, nice view
though I’ll give them that. When you look down you can see Pearl Harbor Hickam Air Force
Base which is right in the middle of Pearl Harbor, it’s pretty nice. There was like– It only had
four barracks on the base and like ten houses, it was commander in chief’s Pacific headquarters
and Marine force Pacific headquarters, it might have been 4 or 500 people stationed there. It was
interesting and small, I don’t know it wasn’t too bad. (9:20)
Interviewer: “And you did what there?”
I was an administrative clerk, I worked in the force adjutant when I first got there doing– But
before everything was electronic we got to actually file all the orders and stuff. So ooh that was
fun, and then I worked down in the classified vault for a couple of years, then ended up in the
security manager’s office doing background checks and all that fun stuff, cause you know
somebody’s gotta do it. So a nice wide array of things, went to Korea a couple times for
exercises, got to go to Seoul and Joseon and, you know, see other countries and have some fun.
Interviewer: “And what time frame did you go to Korea?”
‘96, ‘97, they were only for like a month or two each time, it wasn’t– Just some little exercises to
annoy the North Koreans I guess.
Interviewer: “Were you on like ships there or were you–”
�Rowland, Daniel
No we’d fly over and then work in some office, in some base, I don’t remember. The one time
we were in the Korean Marine Corps Base living in GP tents on their dirt soccer field in the
middle of summer and it gets hot over there and to boot the plumbing doesn't take toilet paper
well, yeah you’ve never been to Korea have you?
Interviewer: “I’ve been but–”
And when you wipe you throw it in the trash can next to the toilet and then they would take it out
and burn it. Well we were right downwind from the burn pit, so needless to say that one of my
times in Korea was not the most fun.
Interviewer: “So were you feeling some animosity from the South Koreans or was this just
all by…”
No, that's just the way they did it, I mean they had space– Because their little headquarters was
like on a hill so any flat land you could get was amazing, so we just happened to be right
downwind from the burn pit. (11:07)
Interviewer: “That’s unfortunate.”
Oh yeah cause we had to walk through the bulk of it on our way to chow so by the time you got
there– It was a great dieting technique I guess, you didn’t have to feel the urge to eat.
Interviewer: “So were you working like hand in hand with the South Koreans?”
They were just joint exercises, I mean we were the command element so we didn’t actually go
out and do stuff we were just doing like the fake information would come in and then we would
process it and then disseminate down to lower command of guys actually doing stuff, so nothing
amazing.
�Rowland, Daniel
Interviewer: “And were you like sitting with generals and doing all this or were you just
like sitting in a little tent typing on a thing.”
Well I was representing the security manager so I basically was the guy running around
shredding classified material, nothing too pressing. Yeah my job was not– It sounds all nice but
it’s not as glamorous as one might think.
Interviewer: “Were you like– Did you not enjoy this job? I’m assuming you didn’t sign up
with the Marines to be a clerk.”
When I signed up they gave me one of those job option packages that was air field service
support, so like air traffic control or something, it was legal clerk or administrative clerk. So I’m
like– I was fine with two of them but not the third and I’m sure you can guess which one I got
because I’m like “Woah, hey legal clerk and air traffic controller that sounds kind of fun.” And
based on my scores I’m like– Admin is like, out of three, the dumbest people go to admin and I
don’t know why but whatever, I’m not gonna complain, needs of the Marine Corps. (12:43)
Interviewer: “Fair enough.”
So I got stuck there.
Interviewer: “So your time in Hawaii was pretty uneventful?”
Yeah for the most part, I went to school, I was there because, you know– Of course when I
dropped out of college the first time you know my dad’s like “Oh you’re never gonna finish
now!” So I had to prove him wrong cause I’m just that stubborn.
Interviewer: “What did you get your degree in?”
Associate’s in business and a bachelor’s in social work and then spent my last year, got divorced
while I was there too, let’s just say as a single guy with a year left on the island I had some fun
�Rowland, Daniel
but we won’t go into that because this is a family program apparently and then I got out in–
Went on a terminal leave in ‘98 and came home and got out, went to the IRR, individual ready
reserve and hung out for a while.
Interviewer: “Okay, and–”
I’m just gonna roll into the next part I assume.
Interviewer: “Yeah.”
So employment was like I was trying to– I guess I think of that time that’s when they actually
changed– In Michigan it was weird, you only needed a bachelor’s of social work to work in the
field and then they changed it master’s degree and all that stuff so I’m like– Needless to say
trying to get a job in the field I wanted wasn’t that great so during that time as a reserve Marine I
could volunteer to do active duty every now and then. (14:05) I went a couple places just for like
oh we need somebody here for a month or a month there so I dabbled around and then in 2001
there was an opportunity to go down to North Carolina for six months and I’m like “Okay, I’ll go
down there.” So I signed up and they flew me down and needless to say you know in September
stuff happened and at that time then we went over to– Well I didn’t go but the military went to
Afghanistan and since I was there it was– I volunteered for six months and then since I was there
when 9/11 happened they started calling up all the reserves like “Well while you’re here, here’s
some orders to stay another year.” And then I was officially involuntarily recalled and for the
next– Till 2004, every year I would get additional orders to stay another year, so I was basically
involuntarily activated for two years.
Interviewer: “And how did you feel about that, were you upset?”
I was fine, it’s not like I had a job back home I’m like “Well hey” and yeah when I got there I
was working at– I was originally working for the Marine reserve unit out of Lejeune and then I
got moved up to the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Force Command Element cause a guy I worked
with in Hawaii he’s a colonel now and he’s like “Oh you’re here.” I’m like “Oh, how are you
�Rowland, Daniel
doing?” Cause as you know the military’s actually kind of small, especially the Marine Corps, so
having worked in the security manager’s office in Hawaii he stuck me in the security manager’s
office in Lejeune so– Because they were just starting the office so I’m like “Okay” and by that
time I was a corporal and I basically got to set that up. So that was fun, learning– Basically doing
my old job again which was kind of weird because as an administrative clerk you can work in
pretty much any– You can work with any unit, every unit rated an administrative clerk, you
know they say you do 30 years you don’t do the same job twice so but apparently I got stuck in
the same job again, but you know it pays off in the end.
Interviewer: “So when you were recalled– Or not recalled but when you went down to
North Carolina for the six months was the to do administrative work or were you doing
something else?”
Well yeah I was– They were– They were just, from my understanding I don’t know for sure,
they were– What was it called it was like the Marine augmentation command element, basically
it’s where a bunch of reserve guys, like older higher ranking guys that are retired and were still
reserve. (16:37) It’s like if the command element ever went to war these guys would get called
up to fill in key positions back in the rear. So they were just setting up and they just needed
people to come down and help them set up their infrastructure and stuff so I’m like “Oh, okay.”
Six months, I’d be doing admin stuff no big deal, I needed a job, they needed Marines, I’ll just
go and then like I said 9/11 happened and stuff just got real and you know I was cheap to call up
because I was already there.
Interviewer: “Fair enough.”
And so, then what happened? I don’t know, that was 2001, 2002, then I was dumb and got
married again in 2003. Yeah I got married in February of 2003, they’d just gone over to invade
Iraq in December and my office sent a Marine who apparently doesn’t know how to jump, got
injured getting off a helicopter and they’re like “Oh hey, you’re going over to replace him in
deployment.” I’m like “Okay.” So after being married three weeks I got whisked away to Iraq for
2003 and I worked with the– Well I guess it’d be more commonly called Task Force Tarawa the
�Rowland, Daniel
2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade and when I got to them in March it was the Battle of
Nasiriyah and I was tasked as the assistant security manager of the– Basically the tent where the
general and all his command stuff were and to got over sea this little security element we had and
all this other fun stuff– Oh yeah I was a sergeant by then too, and I would stay there for the next
seven years, we’ll get into that later.
Interviewer: “When you say stay there you mean stay a sergeant, not stay.”
Right, yeah. Yeah not in Iraq, though I was there enough I should’ve bought a summer home. So
yeah just to gloss my own ego more I was a meritorious sergeant yeah.
Interviewer: “Oh okay.”
That’s for the record, because I was such an outstanding jarhead.
Interviewer: “Not astounding enough to be an E6 but–” (18:37)
Oh no but they give E5 and unders away as like candy, like “Oh here, get promoted.” So I was
over there and got in some– Because we were responsible for the bulk of the forces, the Army,
and the 1st Marine Division, went up through Saudi and went north– West and then swung
around to Baghdad, we were supposedly tasked with mop up operations, heading in right south
of Baghdad and then swinging east. So we had all these little small towns and crap but Nasiriyah
was the worst fighting of the invasion. I was not actually in the fight but we were right behind
them, you know command element we basically tell everyone what to do and you could see all
the crap coming back and all the casualties,this, that. I mean it’s not– Nowhere near like a World
War II or Vietnam scenario I think our casualties were only like 100 or less if you do MIAK– Or
wounded and killed so the WAK, I don’t know we gotta work on our acronyms, there’s so many
of them I don’t know.
Interviewer: “So you never saw any of the actual fighting, no one ever attacked the
command element?”
�Rowland, Daniel
Well you could hear and when you went outside you could see cause a lot of it was at night you
could see the, like the artillery, the LAV, the tanks. So the fire fights and stuff because we were
just on the other side of– There’s a river that runs by the bridges and we were on the back end of
it and we could kind of see down you could like see it all going on. So not the same as being
obviously in it so I can’t make any grandiose claims like that but anyway after that then we
moved on. We ended up in some old Iraqi air base by Al Kut, hung out there for a couple months
after the invasion ended, sweat a lot because the desert’s hot in the summer.
Interviewer: “I had no idea.”
Really? You learn something new everyday.
Interviewer: “Exactly.”
And then came home. (20:33)
Interviewer: “So during the actual fighting I’m assuming you weren’t working on security
clearances and that sort of thing.”
No I mean most of it there, most of my job at the end of the day was just making sure the area
was secure, people that came and went had clearances, we didn’t actually process– clearances
were for the rear, you showed up you either had it or you didn’t so it’s nothing amazing. Though
I did get to see how things happened at a command level, you know it was like the fly on the
wall I just like walk in the tent and see everybody doing their jobs like the three shop who is
operations and then all the other guys are like “Oh we need this, we need that, tell them to do
this.” You know like you see war movies and you just see the soldiers are out fighting but you
know actually seeing the puppet masters I guess you’d call them, cause you know if you’re the
down on the front line fighting, you know you just go where you’re told, but seeing how they
make those decisions at the higher level I guess was pretty good for an experience level.
�Rowland, Daniel
Interviewer: “Did you ever have any issues with officers?”
Who doesn’t? No, no not at that time really it was actually– Again the Marine Corps would end
up being small again later on in my career but no at the time no. Well everybody’s so focused on
the job at hand which is, you know war which is kind of why we exist then, you know personal
animosities between each other. Though there was one captain, he was the general’s aide to
camp and he was kind of a douchebag.
Interviewer: “What did he do?”
No he was just a dick.
Interviewer: “Oh, fair enough.”
Well because you know here’s the general making all the decisions and this is basically his
lackey, carry my briefcase and crap. (22:05) So he had nothing else to do but harass us, there
was me, the general’s terp and his driver and we assumed he was crap for no reason. He’s like
“Oh, you know you need a haircut.” And I’m like– Right, right.
Interviewer: “We are at war.”
There are some people, no matter what you’re doing, that want to stick to military protocol like
it’s gonna be the end of the world if you don’t.
Interviewer: “Got it.”
I mean we’re talking about a guy– So like we’re in a town trying to take it over and stuff and he
would find some Iraqi out in town to like, press his camis and pay them like a couple bucks.
Interviewer: “Wow.”
�Rowland, Daniel
Yeah, this– Don’t get me started on it there’s just some people that are like, what? I mean we
were in MOP gear for like over a month, the– I forgot the actual acronym, the biological weapon
cause we were still “Oh he’s got a WMD.” You know so we had on this mop gear for over 30
days, no– I mean we were invading, no showers no– You know baby wipes became our friends.
So we were pretty nasty so like I didn’t get a haircut, really? But anyway that’s– He annoyed me
but that was about it.
Interviewer: “So when you were over in Iraq, other than the administrative work, you
know what did you do after the invasion?”
We sat around for– Cause the invasion was late March, early April and we were there till like the
beginning of July, end of June and we just sat there, that was it. I mean you’re not– I mean
because they’re still having to figure out what they’re gonna do with the country and we’re just
like– We’re hanging out and doing nothing, played lots of spades. (23:48)
Interviewer: “After that what happened, when did you leave?”
We got back on the ships– See they went over in December on the ships and then I, like I said, I
flew over mid deployment and then we had to take the ships back so that was fun, but I got on
the boat and took the longest shower of my life, maybe, but it was nice and then we got to float
home. Yeah, stopped in Lisbon on the way, that was fun.
Interviewer: “What ship were you on?”
The– Was it the Nassau? Yeah I think it was the Nassau, we had the Nassau, the Kearsarge, and I
forget the third ship in our little fleet but it was a hootenanny. Got to go through the Suez canal
and man the guns, hey we’re jarheads what else we got to do right?
Interviewer: “I’m assuming nothing tried to attack you.”
�Rowland, Daniel
No, that’s standard protocol when you’re going through the canals and the stuff is to man the
guns on the side. So whatever but got to go past the rocket gibraltar, that was fun looking, I guess
that you– There’s– I mean you know you’re Navy, all the little weird things like the shell back or
if you cross the equator and this, we got one for going through the city waters and ooh.
Interviewer: “So the military traditions where they kind of haze you and you get a little
reward afterwards.”
Not for that one, you just got it for going through the Suez and the Med, yeah I’ve heard of some
of the things they do and sea bats and all that, we’ll leave that for you to explain for the people to
hear.
Interviewer: “Shell backs a whole different beast.”
No you never heard of the– “Hey we got a sea bat under that container.” And then you go–
Never mind. (25:24)
Interviewer: “Yeah the old, the hazing techniques to make you go just waste your time.”
[overlapping chatter] Hundred yards of flight line I got.
Interviewer: “Go wait for the mail buey, that sort of thing.”
Hey, get me some blinker fluid. No? Okay, keys in the humvee.
Interviewer: “So the Navy was kind of messing with you guys a little bit.”
Well– But that was it though and man I tell you what the Navy cooks are actually pretty good, I
don’t know. Well compared to eating MREs for three months I guess anything was good.
Interviewer: “So after–”
�Rowland, Daniel
And so I get back and, you know that’s it for– So by then I’m married, got a kid on the way, and
I’m still on involuntary order so I’m like “Well, I should probably go.” Cause by this time I had
almost seven years and I’m like “Oh maybe I should go back to active duty.” and that took a year
cause recruiters suck.
Interviewer: “So where were you at for this year? Were you just–”
I was– No I was still recalled reservist back at my old job at Camp Lejeune and that’s when I got
my Navy achievement medal and all the other crap for a job I didn’t even know what I did and
they give them out like candy so like “Oh hey everybody gets one” unless you’re infantry, then
you don’t get anything. So then I try to come back in, takes them a year, I tried going officer too,
that didn’t pan out I don’t know. So apparently– Well whatever, so then I go back then they let
me back in in June of 2004 and I tried going back in as an intelligence analyst because I’m like
I’ve already got the clearance. (26:57) I mean I kinda needed high clearance for my old job and
then I figured– They made me retake the ASVAB and scored perfect and I’m like “Oh okay, I
can get in, this is no problem.” They’re like “Oh, we want you back in but only as infantry.” I’m
like “What?” “It’s the only thing we have open.” So of course I took it cause I got a kid on the
way, I’m marrying, and I gotta provide for my family and then I come to find out later there was
still like openings for the intelligence. Apparently recruiters even treat Marines like 17 year olds
and just meet their quotas, I don’t know but I’m still a little bitter about that.
Interviewer: “That’s understandable. So when–”
I had two college degrees and a 99 on the ASVAB and a top secret clearance, I was like “Why
couldn’t I get the job?” Anyway.
Interviewer: “That is a bit on the ridiculous side.”
So I guess I went in as one of the smaller grunts, that was– Yeah June of 2004, I got to my unit
in August of 2004 2nd Battalion, 6th Marines, 2nd Marine division blah blah and then they stuck
�Rowland, Daniel
me in weapons company. I was going to become an anti armor assault man, 0352 basically we
shoot rockets at tank and at that time they told me “Oh they just got rid of on the job training.”
Which means you could like work work with a unit for six months and get your new job
designation. “So you have to go back to training.” So I’m a sergeant with seven years in and they
sent me to basically back to combat training with a fricken 18 and 18 year old privates.
Interviewer: “That sounds fun.”
Oh it was hootenanny, it wasn’t really that bad there were two corporals over there too and the
instructors pretty much let us like not do all the dumb crap.
Interviewer: “They knew you knew essentially.”
Well considering I outanked most of my instructors I was like, okay you know– Like you know
like no cell phones or no smoking for the privates but then we go hang out with the instructors
behind the buildings and call our wives and smoke cigarettes cause if it wasn’t anything
essential, like especially the first three weeks were basically a rehash of combat training and then
the last four weeks you break up into your specific jobs, they train all the infantry there. (29:05)
So we just went to class and then graduated and went back to our units, it was still fun though,
and that’s when I found out I lost all my time in grade as a sergeant. Yeah I was promoted June
2003 to sergeant, was it? No, 2002 and then when I came back to active duty they reset my date
of rank, which being in the military one of the important parts of getting promoted was time in
grade. So you have to be a certain rank so long before you’re even eligible for the next rank, so I
lost like two and half years' time in grade, that was fun.
Interviewer: “And you couldn’t fight that at all?”
No, even though I was involuntarily activated, that comes in later, this is a big whine fest I think.
So I graduate in October ‘04, go to my unit and then the next– What was it? Yeah it was the next
October, October ‘05 but in that time they send me to sergeants course, some counter terroism
course, all these frickin courses cause apparently they thought I was smart or something, and
�Rowland, Daniel
then October ‘05 we head over to Fallujah, Iraq this was after the push through I think it was
Phantom Fury is what is was called. We’re the first unit to take over the area after the push
through, and at the time I’m like “Oh, I’m gonna be a platoon sergeant.” Because you know I’m
a sergeant and then they’re like “Nope, you’re going to headquarters company.” “What?” And
then they stick me in an entry control point in the middle of Fallujah, basically the city was– I
don’t want to say quarantined or blockade, but to get in the city you had to go through one of six
checkpoints, you know they had to search you, we had a little vehicle. All these, you know kind
of like the TSA but you know not as stupid, so I got stuck there for the deployment. Nothing too
exciting, I had a little satellite outpost where we did commercial traffic, semis and crap, we got
into a fire fight a couple of times because we’re like right on the main highway and right behind
us was like this big gully, I don’t even know. So somebody could just like walk into the city
through it if they were somewhat evasive and they’d walk up and take pot shots at us and that
was not as exciting as it sounds cause you’re on– We did 24 on, 24 off so you’d be bored most of
the time “Ooh search the– Search the big truck full of stones!” We had the long like rebars we
had to stick in their and we’re looking for bombs or something, I don’t know, and then pretty
quiet till March of ‘06. (31:37) Then our main checkpoint got blown up from one of those orange
dump trucks, google it you’ll see them, and somebody decided to blow it up and we only lost one
Marine and a couple of Iraqi guys because we had the Iraqi army and police working with us too,
about 30 wounded because the concrete barriers they like to use like to turn into microscopic
shrapnel, once you have you know a couple thousands of pounds of explosives go off next to it.
So then a couple days all the guys would have the fragments in them from the explosion, started
becoming sick their body was rejecting it, but since I was at the little satellite outposts I went
over– Cause the explosion was– So we were 600 yards from them and it knocked me on my ass,
that’s how big the explosion was and then I got to go over there with some of the Iraqi guys and
it was just like the little building, everything was just knocked the hell down but most of the–
And I don’t– Did they over teach you OPSEC? I assume they teach you OPSEC when you’re in,
you know like if you travel change your routes and stuff. Well our brilliant bosses every day at
the same time was the changeover, when the one team would come out and go off so after six
months of doing the same thing every day they knew when to hit us. So needless to say it was
kind of– And I pointed this out months before but you know I was just an E5 what did I know?
It’s not like seven years being in a security office going to, you know, the naval criminal
�Rowland, Daniel
investigation security managers course, the DSS security managers course, I got certificates a
mile long but no, I didn’t know nothing. Being a security manager for the invasion for a general,
no what did I know cause– I’m gonna try, you know those clover leaves when you get on the
highway, they like wrap around, we were like right in the middle of one so when somebody hits
the on ramp they can look down and it was just– This is something a frickin moron should be
able to look at and be like “That doesn’t seem that secure with the on ramp open.” So whatever,
so I started building an animosity towards officers, more so after that because you know when
they don’t listen it’s like “Really?” But anyways that’s besides the point, and that was the first
time I lost somebody under my command so– Cause technically I was second in charge of that
unit, I had an E7 and then me and then we had like 15 guys under us or whatever so still a little
haunted by that, anyway [unintelligible]
Interviewer: “So stepping back a little bit when it comes to working with the Iraqi police
and–”
Yeah they were pretty good, nothing weird about them just dudes trying to make a living.
Interviewer: “You didn’t worry at all that they might be with any of these groups?” (34:28)
Not at that time, cause we’re talking a couple years after– They, I guess the local government
they had a pretty good way of vetting you know I mean I never had a problem with them. Hell
usually when we closed down the post we’d go– Cause we had a little trailer and these guys, I
don’t know if you ever saw the big shipping containers, they would basically– They built bunk
beds and stuff in there for them because those guys were out there for like a month, they
weren’t– Like after 24 hours we go back to our little base, have our nice little beds and these
poor guys are out there but we’d go in there and we’d smoke hookahs with them and have some
tea, play cards, whatever you know just dudes. They were some– Well let’s just say they loved
cellphones too because they would show some nasty– They’re just red blooded dudes like
anybody else man, they were just trying to make a living to support their families. So for the
most part, no I never had to worry about them, plus yeah I’d also gone through an Arabic course
�Rowland, Daniel
I can even speak the conversational toddler so that was fun too. That’s the way I look at it, I was
never that great at it.
Interviewer: “Did any of the guys under your command have any issues with them like
pick fights with them or anything?”
No, I think initially some guys were worried but after a month or two you find out they’re just
regular guys and there’s nothing bad about them. Which is I guess counterintuitive from what
people have been told but like a lot of guys that would even put the bombs on the side of the road
it’s not like they were fundamentalist terrorists, someone’s like “Hey, here’s a couple hundred
dollars go put this–” But this is the point where they were stop setting them off themselves, it
was the ones where, well the full term would be victim actuated improvised explosive devices,
pretty much like imagine a pressure plate and when you drove over it it would complete the
circuit and blow up. So some of these guys would go and just set them up and the ones that we
would caught they’re not terrorist or anything they’re just like “Oh hey someone paid me X
amount of dollars to do this.” (36:22)
Interviewer: “And what would– Did you ever catch any of these guys yourself?”
Well I mean we didn’t other like units, we were pretty stationary so we weren’t even mobile but
from what I heard a lot of the ones they did catch in the act they were just doing it cause they
were paid, because you know that– During that period of time you know that was before the full
rebuilding effort, it was hard man I could imagine a guy “Hey I need to get food for my family.”
Here a dude “Here’s some money man go put this over by the road.” “Okay.” So it’s– I wish it
was as clean cut as that, oh here’s a bad guy shoot him, but is he a bad guy or just someone down
on his luck, I don’t know. It’s very– It’s always a lot more complicated than people make it out
to be in the media, but anyway but at the end of that then we came home in April of ‘06 and we
did what Marines do, you know run a lot, train a lot, and get ready to go back over the next year
so then we went back in October– I’m sorry April of ‘07. That was the standard fair, go for
seven, eight months, come home for eight or nine and then go back over but eight or nine at
�Rowland, Daniel
home wasn’t– You weren’t home, we had to go to California for a month or two, then we had to
go to Virginia, all this training, go in the field every other week it seemed like, train train train.
Interviewer: “Now going back to the orange dump truck, did you guys– Did that at least
spark some change?”
Not really.
Interviewer: “Like did you guys move the security point at that point, better off site?”
No they had it rebuilt within 24 hours, they closed the on ramp, that was it. We were gone within
a month so nobody seemed to care.
Interviewer: “Okay, and–”
The prevailing attitude is if you’re a lower rank you’re expendable, I mean that’s the– (38:08)
Let’s call it what it is, your job is to die for the cause and if you do they’ll just “Hey, we got guys
back at the base we’ll just fill in the roster.” Cause that’s all they did, when everybody got his I
think four or five of us out of 30 people between the two crews, like three or four of us stayed
out there and they just replaced them with a bunch of other dudes, it was like we didn’t miss a
beat, you know can’t stop operations man, mission accomplishment and all that crap. So yeah
they closed down the ramp, engineers rebuilt the place in like a couple of hours and hey we’re up
and running again. Military efficiency, whooo! I mean that’s just the way it works man, which I
understand but then it seems like the lack of– I understand that you have to do what you have to
do, I get that but then it seems like even afterwards when you do have time to breathe, no one
else really seems to give a crap, is that? Now obviously in old school conventional wars when
you had to push through, push through yeah you didn’t have time and I get that but like what we
were doing, out of seven months you know six and a half of it was pretty damn boring. So
needless to say we– You know but there’s always downtime especially when we’re home within
a month it’s like, okay thanks for not giving a shit.
�Rowland, Daniel
Interviewer: “So, you went home, you did your year of training.”
Yeah and then we went back, this time I actually was a platoon sergeant and I got my own 24
guys, six we were a mobile assault platoon, five gun trucks in a high back, basically a pickup
truck with big walls and we got to travel around and try to find interesting people and shoot
them. So that was a hoot but things are really quieted down by that compared to the last time, I
think the first time I was in Fallujah everything was blowing up and there were roadside bombs
like every five feet it seemed like but the second time it was actually pretty quiet.
Interviewer: “Were you again near Fallujah?”
We were in the same exact spot.
Interviewer: “Same on ramp and everything?” (40:10)
Well no that was entry control point, this time I was actually with the weapons company with an
actual mobile assault platoon but I mean we were on the same forward operating base, some of
us were sleeping in the same beds we were a year before. We were exactly back, the only
difference was the first time we were there the city was like divided up into three areas and all
these different units had a different area of responsibility. When we went back we had the whole
city to ourselves, it had calmed down that much, so we’re like “Okay” and for the most part, like
I think the first time we were there we lost ten or 12 guys maybe, there was actually a sniper out
there in January too when we were there, he killed a couple guys, mostly Iraqi police, Iraqi army.
I think we lost a couple guys and so we had– So we lost about ten to 15 guys and I think we had
about 20 wounded, the second time we were there I think we lost two, maybe three, but one of
them was a– We were there like not even a week and some engineer that had been attached to
our unit, new guy, went to a porta chuter and offed himself.
Interviewer: “Jeez.”
�Rowland, Daniel
Not– And then another one some dude was driving down the road really fast and his humvee hit
a dune and the guy got thrown out the back and killed, so two of our KIAs were through
accidents or self-inflicted injuries. So I guess you don’t count those when you’re talking killed in
action which is normally enemies but this time no.
Interviewer: “I mean it’s still people dying.”
I understand the sympathy from regular but when you’re in that scenario it’s like– Well one died
cause they were stupid like don’t speed in your humvee down the road, you know so he was a
casualty of stupid and the other was, you know I guess he got there and he couldn’t hack it, we
had only been there a week. So is it sad? Yes but can I feel sympathy towards him? Not really, I
mean if you don’t want to go I understand that but like we had guys that were more creative, they
were like self inflicting injuries before we left like dropping weights on their feet and breaking
their feet. Oh that’s fine, then you get charged for malingering but still you don’t have to go.
Interviewer: “I mean–” (42:22)
I’m just saying if you don’t want to go to Iraq there’s things you can do before we even leave
where you’re not offing yourself, I’m just saying callous but when you’ve been over the multiple
times and you’ve seen your friends die from enemy action and crap, it’s hard to feel sympathy
for other people, like you knew what you were getting into when you signed up especially in
2007, 2008 I mean we’d already been at war for like six, seven years it’s like if you signed the
dotted line and didn’t think you were going why’d you sing up? It’s not like they were drafted it
was still all volunteer force, it sounds cold but given the circumstances you probably know what
you’re getting into, and besides he was like a– He was a motor team mechanic or an engineer it’s
not like they ever left the base, again not trying to be a dick but you know from my perspective
it’s like oh I gotta go out into town two, three times a day and potentially get shot at and you’re
sitting here, you know on the base really not doing anything, and by then we had a nice chow
hall, I mean like salad bar, sandwich bar nice even brought in the guys from Indy to work it for
us, it was pretty swank.
�Rowland, Daniel
Interviewer: “So when you were going out and, you know as you said it, searching for
interesting people to meet and shoot did you have a lot of action?”
Not as much as one would think but it seemed the other units–Or the other platoons always got
the fun stuff, hell it was our first week, we got there and then we ripped with the unit we were
replacing which is like ride along, riding along, basically like they go out and then like your
leaders will ride with them and then you’ll slowly phase in your guys and replace theirs. I think it
was about the second week we’re driving down the road and we get called to go to an incident
and somebody had been driving on the road, some idiot and I use these terms with endearment,
had an accident in the convoy and wandered off onto a dirt road and gotten belly shotted. By this
time the insurgent tactics had moved to burying IEDs in the road so, you know general protocol
was don’t drive down dirt roads. Well somebody did and belly shotted a humvee and we got to
go clean it up.
Interviewer: “By that you mean they drove over it and the bomb went off under?” (44:47)
Yeah the– If I was– Me standing in the blast like my head stuck up, I don’t know if they buried it
that deep or it was the explosion cause I mean I don’t even know what ammunition they used we
were just there for clean up. So most time you think the 155 shells or whatever, you know where
the charge could blow up but this could’ve been one the blew up and down and made the hole
deeper, I don’t know, but yeah we got to pick up a couple guys in ziploc bags, take them to the
main base morgue, and I think half of our guys were like new, so we kind of like left them over
the road while we collected things and them brought them back but like it was– It was just
sloppy, it always seemed– Cause as a mobile assault platoon we were more– We were too fast
for like them to just sit down and ambushes, that’d be more for like the foot patrols. We were
more reactionary so we always showed up when things were going on or just finished that was
kind of our job, or to project a military presence.
Interviewer: “Basically you would go around.”
�Rowland, Daniel
Is that the correct term that they use, or projecting force, I don’t know. So and then another time,
this one’s funny, we had a– There was a big intersection of Fallujah and the Iraqi police, I don’t
even like know stoplights, they made like this little plywood– I’m trying to think of what you–
You know just imagine like a little plywood like tool booth if you would, a little bigger with a
roof on it and surrounded by sandbags and you know they’re out there directing traffic or
whatever and somebody takes– I guess sidestep, our commander, the battalion commander, they
basically more effectively cinched off the city to prevent you know ammunition and bombs
coming in. So– And it worked because eventually the insurgents in the city started making their
own, it was some yellow powder I don’t remember, but anyway this little bongo truck– It looks
like a roller skate, just google bongo truck and you’ll see they’re ridiculously small, this thing
was loaded with barrels of this explosive and he’s rolling down the road, runs into this Iraqi
police post and detonates. Now the one thing apparently insurgents can’t do is make their own
explosives, so the stuff in the cab went off, nothing else did. So he hits this little post of these
guys, I think one dude ended up breaking his leg just from the force of the impact but that was it.
(47:23) We get called up and we gotta cordon off the area and secure it, cause you know it’s still
explosive, so we’re just sitting there looking at this little blue bongo truck and inside the cab it’s
just messy because the guy managed to blow himself up and it’s just, you know guts and gore
over the– All over the windows and of course we found it hilarious, it’s like if you’re gonna die
for the cause fine but you know i expect you want to take more than just yourself with you. Of
course the downside is all this stuff spilled over the road, we had to wait for explosives ordnance
guys to come out and clean it up and I think we spent like 12 hours out there it was so boring.
One time like a dog runs by and runs away with a guy’s hand and yeah go ahead and laugh it
was– Now at this point you’re in country a few months, you’re just bored, you’re just laughing
so hard cause they open the door to try to, you know check the detonation device and all that
other stuff and it’s– So yeah we had fun too.
Interviewer: “Were you still on pretty good terms with the Iraqi police and military
there?”
Yeah I mean they were– Well I mean the police are from the area, the Iraqi army would normally
be from a different part of the country cause I guess you’d look at it like– If you think back to the
�Rowland, Daniel
Civil War they’d have like, you know the Michigan whatever unit, they’re all from the same
town wherever, and that’s the way the Iraqi army was. So– And they would bring in guys from a
different part of the country because they didn’t know anyone locally but the Iraqi police were
local. Yeah they were pretty good guys, no problems there I mean–
Interviewer: “What about the civilians?”
You know what they’re just people trying to live their lives man, for the most part they just did
what they did and we just went around. I mean it comes to this, if you weren’t dicks to them or
you weren’t, you know if you weren’t overly– If you just treat them like people you got along
fine, you know there’s a lot of– I’m sure we’ve all heard stories of the military that were over
there and like being over dickish, I don’t know if it was just because the Middle Easterners in
general were dehumanized or because they were just– I mean I don’t know but no they were just
regular people. Hell we would normally stop for– Grab lunch from a little place down on– I
mean we name the streets after like– I mean you can’t pronounce Iraqi but like north to south–
Yeah north to south had female names and east to west had male names but like the main drag
was called [sounds like “Frayen”] and there’s a little guy running a kebab shop there and we’d
pop in and get some lunch every couple of days whenever we’re around. (50:03) He was a nice
guy, give him money, we get food and it was pretty good food, jeez wonder if there’s any good
kebab shops around here, anyway– Hey man.
Interviewer: “Now you’ve got me wanting kebabs.”
I know right cause, you know what cause the stuff was fresh like right next door was an actual
butcher’s shop. I mean all our stuff is processed as hell, and here you are, you know you pull up
to the kebab shop, you hear the cows and goats mooing next door like okay I guess it’s fresh.
Interviewer: “So you didn’t ever really worry that one of these guys is gonna attack you or
anything?”
�Rowland, Daniel
It comes down to two mindsets, you can either– If you’re gonna worry about it you’re gonna
worry all the time and you’re just gonna go crazy or you’re gonna be so hyper tense all the time
you’ll snap, or you’re just like if it happens it happens, you know if you’re comfortable in your
training– I mean they call it muscle memory when you do something enough but it also applies
to other things like if you hear a gunshot or you hear an explosion you should instinctively know
how to react and if you trust that training, then you just don’t worry about it. I mean you’re
worried but you’re not– You know, otherwise you’re that paranoid guy who thinks the FBI is
listening to his thoughts through the, you know dentures in his mouth and that’s not a good way
to go or you’re– It’s gonna be a long ass seven months, he just eventually if it happens it
happens.
Interviewer: “Were you guys ever ambushed?”
Directly no, I mean we had a couple IEDs once, nothing huge like I hit one and blew out the tire
I think was unconscious a couple minutes but by then we had the new humvees like the doors
were like thicker and all this crap. So it like scratched the paint cause it was– Because it was
where we were driving on the main street and we would like go down to one end of the city and
come back, it really wasn’t that big but we went down and by the time we came back apparently
somebody put it there. (52:00) I mean it wasn’t like hey cause we drove and then we turned
around and came back driving the same path that we did and then drove over it and it blew. So
it’s like somebody– It’s like when you’re watching T.V and somebody throws out those little
spike strips that the cops do, that’s how quick he must have done it because it was right next to
an open field. So the guy must have sprinted out– After we drove by the first time must have
sprinted out, dropped it, ran back, I don’t know it was weird.
Interviewer: “And no one got injured in that cause of the–”
No, we blew like two or three tires on the humvee but we just pulled into one of our little bases,
swapped them out, and on our way again. Nice and quick, nice and painless, that deployment
was actually pretty laid back except for, you know stupid lieutenants but, you know. Oh my
lieutenant was an idiot, oh I know I have to explain it.
�Rowland, Daniel
Interviewer: “Yeah– I mean you don’t have to but–”
He’s the kind of guy– Like we go out and do two or three patrols a day, and he would “Okay”
show up 45 minutes early to our staging area and then he pulled out the map and he’d be
pointing “This is the route–” We would get objectives, like “Oh, we want you to check this spot,
this spot, this spot by the command– By the head shed.” And then he would map out all the
directions and we’re like “Why don’t we just go as long as we make all our checkpoint?” And he
started like “Oh let’s drive down this road, this road.” “Those are dirt roads.” You know hey
didn’t we first learn this lesson when we got in the country, and then– So I was the kind of guy I
would tell my lead truck guy like– Cause all of my vehicle commanders had been there before,
this like I said this is their second time in Fallujah and I’m like “Yeah just as long as we’re
making the checkpoints drive however you want to get there.” That created a lot of tension
between me and the lieutenant, I didn’t give a crap because I don’t want to get belly shotted. We
saw how this works, so screw him, and he was one of the pretentious assholes, pardon my
language.
Interviewer: “Did he try to get back at you for this?” (53:57)
Oh yeah I mean they always do that, you know you get in trouble for– I don’t know about this,
you get in trouble or you do something they don’t agree with but it’s not against the rules so then
they make up some shit to get back at you later. I mean nothing bad like I didn’t get a bad fitness
report or anything but yeah he was one of those guys. He graduated from one of those prestigious
schools and he didn’t– Whatever, I don’t care, he was a dick. So he– Yeah that created a lot of
crap between me and him but I didn’t care, all my guys made it home, I mean I think the worst
thing to happen to one of our guys is he got appendicitis, whoop-dee-doo, but then you always
have the commanders and like we had a 1st sergeant that was really bored. I love this rule, so we
lived in this old– It’s called Camp Baharia, it was an old bath party luxury resort it had like man
made lakes in it and stuff. Apparently Saddam used to have like race boat– Or speed boat races
and crap so all these little huts and stuff and you know after the war all the Iraqi siblings came
and like stole it all like the plumbing, the windows, all this crap. So we just have these shells of
�Rowland, Daniel
buildings and they have the porta crappers across the road from where we live and our 1st
sergeant’s like “Don’t leave your little house unless you’re at least in PT gear!” So one day one
of my guys he woke up, goes to the bathroom, he's just in his shorts, and he got a page 11 for
doing that.
Interviewer: “Page 11 is?”
Basically a reprimand in your file, so yeah cause he woke up and had to pee he got in trouble for
not putting a shirt on to go across the street in the middle of summer, in 130 degree weather,
yeah I know right.
Interviewer: “Seems legit.”
These are people that, again goes back to the kind of person, I got– Cause everything we did was
at a platoon level or lower so the company staff, they got really bored and they would do stuff
like enforce stupid ass rules. Alright maybe not– It– Whatever I think they’re stupid “Hey we’re
in a war zone! Don’t forget to put your shirt on.” Cause you gotta go to the bathroom (56:15)
Interviewer: “So pretty much nothing really that eventful happened at that point.”
Nothing, nothing exciting, or at least not to us I mean other of our platoons they’ll get into
firefights. I guess one time they were driving– One guy– One unit was driving down a road and
they have a– Fallujah’s got like a little industrial section in the southeast like all warehouses and
stuff, they were driving down there some guys come out of a building wearing suicide vests and
they were looking at each other and then our guys just turned their guns and started shooting at
them, see we missed all the fun stuff, I don’t know.
Interviewer: “That’s–”
Alright it’s not fun in general but when you’re in an armored vehicle and somebody’s shooting at
you with AK-47s and is still far enough where the suicide vests won’t actually do anyhting and
�Rowland, Daniel
all you have to do is rotate your 50 caliber machine gun down the alley and fire. I mean 50
caliber bullets are pretty– They’re lethal for like, you know small armored vehicles let alone
people, there’s not much left of you. So you always hear those stories and you’re like “Why
wasn’t I there?”
Interviewer: “So when did you leave?”
We left October of ‘07, got back and then that was pretty much the highlight of my career. I
reenlisted a couple months later and my choices were I could stay with the unit and get a $20,000
bonus or I could pick my own duty station. Well my dumbass picked the– My own duty station
cause who needs 20 grand? Well also the mentality of I’ve been over three times and managed to
still be alive, I don’t want to push my luck.
Interviewer: “Fair enough.”
Plus at that point my son was about four or five and I basically missed half his life, like when we
got back my third time I went to pick him up and he was crying because he didn’t know who the
hell I was, that’s depressing. (58:07) So I’m like “Yeah I’ll stay stateside for a while.” And then
I ended up being– Where the hell was it? Camp Johnson which is kind of a weird cyclical thing,
that was the base I went to originally to learn to be an administrative clerk.
Interviewer: “Where was that at?”
It’s like right next to Camp Lejeune in North Carolina, there’s like Camp Lejeune and then
there’s Camp Johnson, Camp Geiger, the air station. Camp Geiger is where they train the
infantry, Camp Johnson’s where they teach the mechanics, the administrative clerks, the
financial clerks, and the box kickers– Warehouse guys, their school’s two week it’s like “Why
are you even here?” So I basically ended back up where I started and the only jobs there for
grunts were sergeant of the guard, basically before a Marine goes into job training if there’s not a
class starting they stick them in a barracks and make them little crap jobs like, you know like
“Oh hey go help the maintenance guys.” Or go to– Well we got 40 guys to stand around and tell
�Rowland, Daniel
the Marines their shirts are tucked in, it was pretty mindless but I was fine with that because I
didn’t– I wanted mindless I wanted to be home and, pretty much not that exciting, I just sat
around with a bunch of other– Of course the problem was is the mentality, there were like seven
of us there, there were guys from 1st Battalion 6th Marines, 3rd Battalion and me and we’d all–
We’d actually all been in Iraq together, all of our units around, so our mentality was different
than a bunch of guys learning to be, you know accountants. So needless to say there were
multiple classes, though my first year there was probably my greatest year in the Marine Corps.
My immediate– My commanding officer was a guy I had served with during the invasion, so
again back to the small world. So yeah I got to basically get away with murder and I’m not
saying I did anything wrong but we had pretty lax guidelines at this point. When guys you had
served with in combat are your bosses, but it was all– Our sergeant major was about the top
enlisted guy, was actually with 3-6, he was like 5”1, his actual last name was Meanie, he was
single and he rode a Harley. Yes, everything you can imagine, he would have like an NCO call
for all the corporals and sergeants and he would be like “Well first two kegs are on me.” You
know the kind of senior enlisted guy that you only hear of in like fantasies and like I think he
was within six months. We were at a physical training thing and some 1st sergeant pissed him off
so he laid him out. (1:00:52)
Interviewer: “Like hit him?”
Yeah, from what I hear, and then he got transferred to a deploying unit which I think in hindsight
is what he wanted, I mean he was those kind of guy he could– You could like just drop him off
in Iraq and he would live there because he’s that kind of guy, but yeah but once those guys
started leaving then we got the pricks and that’s essentially where my career ended because I
couldn’t get promoted to staff sergeant. In the Marine Corps if you don’t make E6 by 13 you’re
out so.
Interviewer: “Okay so you were forcibly discharged.”
I was– I was unable to reenlist, but and then that goes back to when they took my two and half,
three years time in grade because as an infantry Marine you normally had to be in a sergeant for
�Rowland, Daniel
two or three years before you’re even eligible for promotion and by the time– So that was ‘04 so
I was, I think it was in the– In the Marine Corps you have Marines in the zone, below zone and
above zone so like they need a hundred dudes, they’ll put 200 guys in the zone, and that’s all
based on how long you’ve been and E5 and I think my first year I was in the below zone. That’s
basically like “Oh we can’t find enough good guys we’ll go down here and look.” So by the time
I was– And that just happened to coincide with the downsizing, they were gonna cut 20 or
30,000 Marines. They were promoting 400 Marines in my job a year, the year I was finally
eligible they cut it down to 90, it was like– So that along with my lost time in grade, you know I
should’ve been eligible for promotion two years earlier but now it was like, it was just a cluster
fudge and it kind of– Came to and end, which I was fine with because I was unable to reenlist
through no fault of my own, they gave me a nice severance package which was fun. I mean if
you’re gonna get out–
Interviewer: “You might as well get a severance from it right?”
Yeah but at the end of the day I, at that point I think I had 15 years in, a year and half later they
offered 15 year retirements.
Interviewer: “That’s unfortunate.” (1:02:55)
Oh I know right, but anyway that was pretty much the bulk of it.
Interviewer: “So that was your last duty station then you separated? What’d you do
after?”
Farted around a while, I bought a house in Jacksonville where Camp Lejeune is and of course in
2010, guess what happened in 2008. I went with downsizing, the housing market was just– So I
couldn’t leave, it was so sad because living in a military town when you’re no longer in the
military is like ehhh. Bummed around a while and then I finished my first master’s degree, I’d
started when I was in Iraq the third time, I was bored and like “I’m going to school.” And then I
don’t know, stuff just happened, I got sick of living there and then you learn the whole “It’s who
�Rowland, Daniel
you know” adage, like I would try to apply for the jobs on base and never seem to get them, but
now it’s just me whining.
Interviewer: “I mean the transition from civilian– Or military to civilian is hard.”
Well in a military town like that the jobs paid crap because there’s always an overabundance of
workers, military spouses and stuff so they can pay you less money because if you quit or you
get fired they got ten more lined up in the back. So the jobs just sucks and any good jobs on base
it’s who you knew, like one time there was an educational counselor job open at the base
education center, you know I had a bachelor’s in counseling and a master’s in education, I didn’t
get an interview. Things like that you know and after that I just gave up and eventually “Well
let’s just pack it in and move.” So when my marriage started going south, my second one, I just
grabbed my kid and moved back here to Michigan and said “Hey let’s go back to school again.”
Cause they gave me an extra year free, G.I bill so nothing amazing.
Interviewer: “And that’s what you’re doing now?”
Yeah I’m going to school and running into people like you who ask me to do things like this,
which isn’t bad I guess, taking worthless English classes. (1:04:50)
Interviewer: “So nothing– The military didn’t really prepare you for the civilian life?”
I’m– In the general context they do not, for me it– I mean this is gonna sound egotistical again
but I didn’t need them too because I’d done four years and gotten out the first time, then I went
back in, then when I got out the next time, you know– I think the best thing that prepared me for
transition was still living in a military town and knowing how it is, and then by the time I get
back up here it’s a totally different community like for one you know people around here
actually like veterans. Well when you’re in a military town they’re like “Who cares you’re a
veteran get the hell out of my face.” So no they put you through like a three day class when you
get out “Here’s how you do a resume, this is how you do this, this is how–” You know there’s
no– They give you information that you can find on your own they don’t actually– It’s like
�Rowland, Daniel
coming back from combat, they’re like “hey don’t beat your family members.” You know they
don’t actually transition you from a combat scenario back to, you know peacetime or back to life
back in the states, it’s done really poorly.
Interviewer: “Was that hard for you?”
Not for me but for everyone cause I mean having the– I think it was easier for me because my
first time in Iraq I didn’t really see combat but I got enough of it to know what was going on so
when I went back the second time I knew what to expect plus having, you know the self– Cause
having like the degree in social work I already knew the generic psychological aspects, all this
and that so I could help prep myself but it was just one of those weird things where what I
already knew just happened to fit what I was going to do. It’s really weird how it all came
together but I could also see at the same time that for the regular guys coming back that it wasn’t
anything special, it wasn’t anything– It was one of those dichotomies it’s like you know come
back if you’re feeling sad or whatever talk to somebody but yet at that time if you went and like
saw a shrink your career is pretty much over. They’ve destigmatized a lot in the last five, ten
years but at that time they’re telling you to do but everybody else knew if you did you’re pretty
much done. (1:07:18) So, I don’t know, that’s where you see the transition of what it was like to
what it is and I know– To my understanding it’s still not that great now but yeah from military to
civilian life good luck with that. I mean they don’t really– They tell you a lot of things but they
don’t actually tell you– Help you– Having the information and using that information in a
meaningful manner are two different things, so it’s like you know you come back “Here, have a
book. Get the hell out.” You know it’s like it’s not the same thing as actually helping someone
transition. So once you get those discharge papers, you know go away, I don’t care anymore you
are no longer under my command, get the F out I don’t care. So now you’re out there alone
you’re like “Who do I go to?” You have to find out all this on your own, like nobody tells you
that there’s veterans service officers, that you can go to the American legion, the VFW, the DAV
and all these other accessible things. They may mention them in passing but they don’t actually
tell you what they do, what they can offer, all this other stuff but whatever hey that’s just the
military. Once you’re no longer able to die for your country they don’t give a crap.
�Rowland, Daniel
Interviewer: “So are you– Would you recommend the military to someone?”
It depends on the person, what you want and what you’re willing to do.
Interviewer: “How would you feel about your son joining the military?”
I’d tell him to join the Air Force.
Interviewer: “Fair enough.”
If he joined the Marine Corps I’d smack him upside the head, like I was stupid you don’t need to
be stupid, or if you could do it in a capacity which you can maximize your benefits but minimize
your risks, I mean again that sounds kind of selfish or something but at the end of the day, you
know I don’t want my kid signing up and going off to die, I mean I don’t think anybody does,
but if he wants to join, get some job experience, some military expereince, and some money for
college well that’s great but if that’s all you want out of it– Like don’t join and enlist in the Army
as a soldier you know as an infantry. That’s the dumbest thing but some people like that and
again that’s why I’m saying it depends on the person. (1:09:30) If somebody’s all gung ho I want
to serve my nation and go to war well hot damn sign up, become infantry if that’s what you want
but some people– And it’s the aptitude as well, some people just they could be the smartest
person in the room but if they’re unable to listen to authority and keep their mouth shut, not a
good choice but that’s just me.
Interviewer: “Alright, that just about wraps us up, was there anything else you wanted to
say?”
No, I’m good.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RowlandD2291V
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Rowland, Daniel
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-12
Title
A name given to the resource
Rowland, Daniel (Interview transcript and video), 2018
Description
An account of the resource
Daniel Rowland was born in 1975 in Grand Rapids, Michigan and decided to enroll in the Marine Corps after his third semester in college. In 1995 Rowland attended boot camp in San Diego, California where he acted as the guide to recruits, After basic training, Rowland was sent to Camp Pendleton to complete Marine combat training. After completing Marine combat training, Rowland was sent to job training in North Carolina where he received training to become an administrative clerk. Rowland then spent three and a half years stationed in Hawaii at Camp Smith working as an administrative clerk. During this time, Rowland would be sent for occasional brief missions in South Korea. While he was stationed in Hawaii, Rowland also received his associate’s degree in business and bachelor’s degree in social work. In 1998 Rowland returned home and left active duty, joining the individual ready reserves where he did occasional active duty. One of these active-duty missions was a mission to go to North Carolina in 200. Due to the events of 9/11, this resulted in Rowland being involuntarily activated for two years during which he worked in a security manager’s office as an administrative clerk. In 2003 Rowland was deployed to Iraq as part of the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade as the assistant security manager. After returning from Iraq to the United States by boat, Rowland decided to return to active duty as an infantryman in 2004. In 2005 Rowland’s unit was sent to Fallujah, Iraq working in headquarters company, and in 2006 Rowland came home for a year before being sent back to Fallujah, Iraq for a third time. Rowland returned home to the United States in 2007 and was stationed at Camp Johnson as a sergeant of the guard before being forcibly discharged and going on to return to school and resume civilian life.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Leroy-Rollins, Koty (Interviewer)
WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States—History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975—Personal narratives, American
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401.
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copyright
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/146daaeab85a16c7365e80fb0d057ce8.jpg
2957520fb9d663b068c2490879263858
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Robert H. Merrill photographs
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1909/1950
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copyright
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-222
Description
An account of the resource
Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family.
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Merrill_EastmanAlbum_1_1909_086
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1909-08-24
Title
A name given to the resource
Rowley's Auto, Medina
Description
An account of the resource
Black and white photograph of Rowley's automobile, Medina, New York. Five women and girls dressed for the parade sit in the car, which is decorated with flower garlands and stuffed bears.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Medina (N.Y.)
Automobiles
Portraits, Group
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copyright
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e556090eb0225ae725a6a8a2867b0027.jpg
8b3170a99e1e35738d1ed02a89bcce52
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
GVSU Concert & Event Posters
Subject
The topic of the resource
Posters
Events
Michigan
Universities & colleges--Michigan
Description
An account of the resource
Division of Student Services provides programs, services, and environments that enhance the personal, social, and intellectual growth of undergraduate and graduate students at the University. Events including concerts were managed by the office of Student Life. Posters for music, speakers, poetry readings and other campuswide events are included.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. Division of Student Services
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/106">Student Services concerts, events, and posters files, (GV028-06)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-17
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV028-06
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1963 – 1981
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV028-06_buchanan
Title
A name given to the resource
Roy Buchanan and Papa John Creach, April 25, 1976
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
Grand Valley State College
Michigan
Allendale (Mich.)
Universities & colleges--Michigan
Events
Posters
Description
An account of the resource
Roy Buchanan and Papa John Creach, in the Grand valley State Colleges Field House Dome, April 25. 1976.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1976
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/106">Student Services concerts, events, and posters files, (GV028-06)</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/07be1da12fb7014155cc9794aa410974.jpg
7b3c34aea994b62b437fa7b1e5bd9df6
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Honors Institute for Young Scientists (HIFYS) Scrapbook
Subject
The topic of the resource
Science--Study and teaching
East Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
University of Michigan
Description
An account of the resource
The Honors Institute for Young Scientists provided a competitive scholarship to an advanced summer educational program in science and math for high school juniors and seniors in the Grand Rapids, Michigan area. It expanded to include approximately 12 states by 1962. In 1966, Grand Valley State College took over the program, changing its name to the Honors Institute for Young Scholars. The scrapbook includes articles and photographs of the Honors Institute for Young Scientists (HIFYS) in Grand Rapids.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Honors Institute for Young Scientists
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/465">Honors Institute for Young Scientists (RHC-38)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-28
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-38
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1958-1966
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/465">Honors Institute for Young Scientists (HIFYS) scrapbook, RHC-38</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-38_HIFYS39
Title
A name given to the resource
Roy Fetherston
Subject
The topic of the resource
Honors Institute for Young Scholars
Honors Institute for Young Scientists
East Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Grand Valley State College
Science--Study and teaching
University of Michigan
Science
Description
An account of the resource
Roy Fetherston.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Honors Institute for Young Scientists
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1966
Format
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image/jpeg
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Image
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bd44535cd3222500bb1801f5242fcad2.jpg
32a1b74321399cc56f4c6a6303e55e2d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Honors Institute for Young Scientists (HIFYS) Scrapbook
Subject
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Science--Study and teaching
East Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
University of Michigan
Description
An account of the resource
The Honors Institute for Young Scientists provided a competitive scholarship to an advanced summer educational program in science and math for high school juniors and seniors in the Grand Rapids, Michigan area. It expanded to include approximately 12 states by 1962. In 1966, Grand Valley State College took over the program, changing its name to the Honors Institute for Young Scholars. The scrapbook includes articles and photographs of the Honors Institute for Young Scientists (HIFYS) in Grand Rapids.
Creator
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Honors Institute for Young Scientists
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/465">Honors Institute for Young Scientists (RHC-38)</a>
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
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2017-03-28
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
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image/jpg
Language
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eng
Type
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Image
Identifier
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RHC-38
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1958-1966
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/465">Honors Institute for Young Scientists (HIFYS) scrapbook, RHC-38</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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RHC-38_HIFYS62
Title
A name given to the resource
Roy Fetherston dies
Subject
The topic of the resource
Honors Institute for Young Scholars
Honors Institute for Young Scientists
East Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Grand Valley State College
Science--Study and teaching
University of Michigan
Science
Description
An account of the resource
Roy Fetherston dies, article in the Grand Rapids Press, June 27, 1961.
Creator
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Honors Institute for Young Scientists
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Language
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eng
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1966
Format
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image/jpeg
Type
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Image
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f3fb9dc861b208c21d8e159d5ae6dfde.mp4
1ff31cef629af557169d342c17ac568c
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/89d7b7417ba408e4c3f66878ba638984.pdf
b80bba299c885cf7ec9fb644535eb817
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: Manager of Veterans Affairs, Kent County, MI
Interviewee: Carrie Roy
Length of Interview: 00:58:48
Background (1:07)
From Deer Lodge, Montana. Grew up there most of her life.
Father worked at the state prison in the area. Her mother was a nurse at Warm Springs, a
halfway house for the mentally impaired.
While in high school, she ended up getting pregnant and having twin daughters. She still
graduated with good marks.
She got married straight out of high school; however this would not work out. She ended
up being a single parent.
After a while, she decided that Deer Lodge was just too small of a town for her, so she
moved to Sheridan, Wyoming.
She went to community college there, but was struggling to keep everything balanced.
So she decided that the military would be a good option for her.
She did not know much about the military except for what she saw in movies. She was
always very athletic and thought she would be a good fit for military life.
At first she wanted to be in the Marines. After discovering that she would have virtually
no choice in the type of job she would receive, she then went to the Army recruiter next
door.
She took her ASVAB (Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery), a military aptitude
test. The higher the score, the more job opportunities were available to you. She did
pretty well and had about 30 jobs to choose from.
She ended up choosing 63 Bravo, which was light wheel vehicle mechanic. She did not
know anything about it, but being a single mom, she thought the training would come in
handy later.
Training (4:50)
Her first session of basic training was in Fort Jackson, South Carolina.
She loved basic training.
While she was in “reception”, when they do all the physicals, you get your clothes, etc.
she and the others there were there for about two weeks, instead of the usual two days.
So it got a little boring.
She got a taste of how mean and aggressive the drill sergeants would be.
When they were done with the reception, they were assigned to their training units.
The physical aspect of the training started right away. When they got off the bus, they
had their duffle bags, which weighed 40-50 lbs. and they had to carry them everywhere
on their first day.
�
She knew that they were going to break her down psychologically and felt she had a leg
up compared to most of the others in the unit who were mostly 18-19, whereas she was
23.
The gender balance to the group was about half and half. It was under President Clinton
that integrated training was allowed, and she had joined in 1998.
She thinks that they did this on purpose, because of the fact that basic training is for
combat training, so it has people from all sorts of skills there: cooks, military intelligence,
mechanics, etc.
They were organized in training companies. She was in Charlie Company. The barracks
were separated by gender, women on one side and men on the other.
She learned right away that everything in the barracks had its place and that everything
had to be in its place. It was very structured.
Some people adjusted very well as they had planned on doing it for a long time. Others
were not so prepared for joining the military. Once you are there, leaving was not an
option.
Wherever you go you had to have a “battle buddy” for safety reasons and accountability.
For those who wanted out, they would have to do something to get them kicked out, or
suffer from an injury, or even fake an injury.
She remembers that there was one girl who had to leave, but all the others made it
through the training.
Fort Jackson is located near Columbia in South Carolina.
The climate was very humid compared to Montana, but the hardest thing to get used to
was the fire ants. They would get everywhere.
She would also deal with cockroaches. She had never seen one in her life.
Her basic training lasted 8 weeks. Each week you were learning a new combat skill. She
learned map reading, weapons training, which was really fun, battle tactics, combat
fighting.
She was a hunter back in Montana, so it was not difficult adjusting to the M-16 rifle.
When she finished her basic training she came out with as an expert on weapons training.
She was proud of that accomplishment.
While they trained, they would always train with their battle buddy. Her buddy was a
6’2” woman who was rather bulky, but Carrie was bound and determined.
Unlike most, she really described training as fun. She said it brought to her a confidence
she did not know she had and she learned how far she really could push herself.
Advanced Training: (14:35)
She stayed in Fort Jackson for her AIT training, where she learned how to become a
mechanic. She was there for 13 weeks.
She excelled at her training there. She was called a “high speed” soldier and one of her
drill sergeants in AIT suggested that she go to jump school, because that is what all good
soldiers do.
In AIT training, they started with very basic stuff. The first thing she trained with was a
lawn mower engine, learning how engines work.
She would eventually work on Humvees in the military.
�
She would achieve the echelon level 2 of training, which was mid-level. They did not get
into deep engine functions.
She learned how to replace parts, trouble shoot if something goes wrong and other such
things. She also learned how to read flow charts, as the military loves flow charts.
She also did some “boom” training, which was taking vehicles that had been stuck in the
mud and using a boom truck to get them out. It was really disgusting.
During AIT, if you pass the second phase of training and you do really well, you can get
a weekend pass. She got a hotel room with a group of her friends and got some beer and
partied. Others did more than that but she stayed away from them because she did not
want to get kicked out of the military because she liked it.
It helped being the oldest because she was the only one who could buy beer. It also
helped being older because others would come to her for advice. It gave her a kind of
motherly instinct.
Jump School: (20:05)
When she was finished with AIT, she was sent to Fort Benning, Georgia for jump school.
It was three weeks long, each consisting of its own lessons. First ground week, then
tower week and then jump week.
The first week was great. You have to run everywhere, until 5pm.
Jump school is a specialty school so people were there from all parts of the US military
system, with all sorts of different ranks and it did not matter.
Tower week was when she got injured. While she was on the swing line trainer, a 12ft
high platform, she was practicing her PLF’s and she did not land correctly and fractured
her right femur.
She does not know what happened because she had her PLF’s down by that point. At
first she did not realize that anything was fractured or broken, she was going to walk it
off.
After a day, she could not walk off the pain so she went to see somebody and they
diagnosed her with tendonitis. So they put her on two-day profile, which means she was
restricted from doing any physical activity.
After two days of not healing she went back to sick call. Finally after going through
doctors they did take x-rays and did find out that she had a bone fracture.
That was the end of her jump school days and she was really bummed because she was
one day away from jumping out of a real airplane and it never happened.
Her doctor wanted her to go home and recover for 30 days, but her sergeant would have
none of it. Instead she was transferred from Bravo Company to Delta Company, where
they sent all the injured and others who couldn’t hack it.
While she was there, she was told to clean the cracks in the sidewalk with a coat hanger.
It was humiliating, but she had to do it anyway.
She would get to paint the silver wings new logo on their wall and she thought that was
cool.
She was in Delta Company for 6 or 7 weeks, until her permanent duty station came in.
Fort Hood, Texas (28:10)
�
She was disappointed to find that she was stationed at Fort Hood, Texas.
She had heard that it was one of the less desirable places to go in the military.
Fort Hood is in central Texas, not really close to anything important.
Before she was sent to Fort Hood, she went home for 10 days. She still wasn’t healed
and was on crutches.
She did not want to show up on crutches on her first day at Fort Hood, because people
there would think she was weak. She probably did more damage than good by leaving
her crutches behind.
She thought she would heal while sleeping, but it did not work out so much.
She ended up going to sick call 2 weeks after she got there and got crutches and another
profile.
Her motor pool sergeant was really cool, though not very happy about her injury. She
could still do everything, just not to the extent that the others could, like lifting heavy
objects.
Her sergeant was willing to work with her through her injury and one day he let her work
in the office and do clerical kinds of things. That’s what she did for the last few months
she was there.
After about a year at Fort Hood, and going back to the doctor’s to find out her fracture
was not healing, they gave her a choice: they could either put pins in her hip and she
could stay in the military, or she could leave.
Post Duty (32:30)
Given that there was no war going on, she decided to leave. This was in 2000.
When she was discharged, she was a little bummed because she loved the military.
When she was in Fort Hood, she met her current husband.
They had met, fell in love, some stuff happened and they broke up. While she was being
discharged, he was sent to Korea.
She went home to Montana and started a daycare center with a friend, but it was not
really working out.
For the year while she was in Montana after she got out, she never really forgot about
him and had been keeping in touch with his mother.
One day, she asked his mother to somehow help her get in touch with him.
Coincidentally, he had returned from Korea the day before.
They talked on the phone and he invited her to MI. Sparks flew!
Eventually he would return to Fort Hood, stopping by Montana on the way and asked her
to marry him. She said yes.
After getting back to Fort Hood, he prepared a place for them, and two months later she
was married.
After he got out of the military, they all moved back to Michigan because that is where he
was from. He got out January 2001.
While in Michigan, she would work in voc rehab. And after taking another aptitude test,
she enrolled at Cornerstone University got her degree in psychology. Everything that she
needed for school was paid for by the government.
�
She would then do an internship at the Vet Center in Grand Rapids. It’s part of the VA
that deals with veterans who have post-traumatic stress disorder. She interned for 6
months counseling for PTSD and group therapy. She did not have a master’s degree, so
she could not work there permanently.
While she did work there, she made connections with other people in the community,
other veterans. She would meet Luke Carter who was the manager for the Good Will's
Homeless Veteran Reintegration Program. They had a position open for a peer counselor
and a housing coordinator.
She left the Vet Center and worked at this place, making money, for about a year. It was
one of her favorite jobs. She like the counseling aspect of it, but it did not pay very well.
She would make connections with people at the Kent County Community Development
and Housing Commission. She would apply for the job and would work with her
connections to get the job. (39:30)
She worked there for about 2 and half years. She learned a lot.
When her current job became available, it would fit her like a glove. She applied and got
the job.
In her current job, she advises veterans and their widows on how to apply for and receive
things like service connection pension, death pensions, VA benefits, answer questions,
emergency needs assistance for veterans, etc. The biggest aspect of her job is to help
veterans apply for their military benefits.
There is no specific demographic. They are all ages, all races.
Because of their training in boot camp it is really difficult for veterans to ask for help, but
the environment that they have created lets them know it is ok to ask for help.
She is relatively new to the job. She is in the process of growing the department to
making it a one-stop shop for veterans.
PTSD and traumatic brain injury are big things that she sees for people just coming out of
the military.
She would love to do this long term and believes that there is a lot that the public could
learn about homeless veterans.
Many of them are living with friends, and not necessarily under a bridge. Some are well
educated, including one she met while working at the Vet Center, who had a Ph.D. They
hit hard times, and need help to build them back up.
For vets who aren’t homeless, people think they are very “drill sergeant” like. But they
are just people, like the rest of us.
All of the funding for the program she works at now comes out of county general funds.
(50:30)
She worries at the condition of the state and how that will impact the program she works
at. But she thinks it’s one of those things that go in cycles. She hopes that the economy
will improve.
Her advice: don’t let fear hold you back for the opportunities that the military brings.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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RoyC0708V
Title
A name given to the resource
Roy, Carrie (Interview outline and video)
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Roy, Carrie
Description
An account of the resource
Carrie Roy was born in Montana in 1975. She joined the Army in 1998, looking to open up new opportunities for herself. She selected light vehicle maintenance as her specialization, and was sent to Fort Jackson, South Carolina, for training. She did very well in basic training and in her advanced training, and was offered a chance to go to jump school at Fort Benning, Georgia. While there, she broke her leg, but the injury was not diagnosed or treated very well, and was still causing problems for her when she was sent to her active duty assignment at Fort Hood, Texas, and she eventually left the service because of the injury. She then got married, moved to Michigan, and completed a degree in psychology, and quickly began working with veterans, and is currently Director of Veterans Affairs in Kent County, Michigan.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Army
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6f6917a984cc294fac31082834fc36cc.m4v
85be408bbc9ddf17c85dda0a4fb86201
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ffbdfdaa7ddf915552af81c51c3b9422.pdf
fc1bde946499dcfbf38cde9dd0474c9a
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Vietnam War Era
Jan Roy
(57:10)
Introduction (00:23:26)
Jan was born in Holland, Michigan in 1941.
After she graduated from high school at Holland Christian High School, she began
working at the Holland Furnace Company for four years, before it went out of business.
Her father was a machinist and her mother was a stay at home mom. Jan had three
siblings, of which she is the oldest (01:03:23).
Joining the Navy (01:25:26)
Jan wanted to join the Navy, so she went to Detroit for her physical and was told she was
ten pounds over weight. She was sent home and a year later was finally received.
She was inspired to join by her cousin, who served as a chaplain and was killed in a plane
crash on his way to Washington D.C. to receive the Chaplain of the Year award
(02:15:00).
She was 22 years old and wanted to leave Holland.
Training (02:42:15)
Jan was sent to Bainbridge, Maryland for boot camp.
The training lasted ten weeks.
The base was about an hour from New York City, and was not near any water (03:12:27).
This was a women only training facility, and also hosted several different schools.
Boot Camp (04:07:07)
Jan was older than most of the others in her company, so she adjusted
well.
She completed boot camp without getting any demerits, which she
attributes to one of her instructors that was from Detroit
She started basic training in 1963. (04:46:10)
Jan had around thirty women in her training company.
Her training consisted of education (military, Navy history), physical, drill
and marching and swimming.
The physical portion was easy for her as well as the military discipline
aspect (06:22:25).
�
She had a mild recruit petty officer, E-6, and she was fortunate for an easy
instructor.
Most of the people who started the training, completed it.
After finishing boot camp, Jan stayed at Bainbridge and began Yeoman A
school, which was a clerical school (08:29:16).
A – School (08:29:18)
Having worked for four years prior to joining the Navy, Jan had typing
skills and decided to pursue that in the military.
This school lasted between six to seven weeks, and included basic clerical
and typing skills.
During this training phase, she was granted liberty and had access to the
local clubs and bars because she was over twenty one years of age.
A-School was a pleasant experience for her (09:37:04)
She met a radioman during this time that she still keeps in contact with
today.
First Duty Station (10:02:00)
Jan was stationed at Naval Station Newport, Rhode Island.
She started out in the personnel office, but was borrowed by the legal office around 1964
to help type wills for the men going overseas to Vietnam (10:37:15).
Jan did not have a car, so she took a bus into town.
She enjoyed seeing the ocean, and made friends with a woman who lived in Cape Cod
and went there during her liberty.
Newport was a small town, but busy with activity because it was a home port for the
Navy (12:41:09).
Her job normally lasted from 0800 to 1600 (8am- 4pm) everyday; she was bored with her
job and was glad to switch to legal, which required her to attend Naval Justice School at
Naval Station Newport (13:48:06).
Justice School (14:12:19)
Jan’s class had 72 people, many of which were senior to her in rank and they thought she
was not ready for the challenge. She graduated 6th in her class.
She was then a certified closed microphone court reporter, who records court hearings
and trials and then later transcribes them on paper.
The class taught the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).
Around 1965-66, she was working as a legal aide and dealt with illegal movements from
ships, unauthorized absence, and reported at their court martials (16:57:23).
Working as a Courtroom Reporter (17:01:26)
One case she remembers well, involved a conscientious objector, who was holed up in a
church basement, which required the F.B.I to go in and get him out. He was sentenced to
�
three months confinement and busted down in rank to E-1 and had forfeiture of pay for
three months (17:47:01).
The same man later was given a bad conduct discharge, the trial lasted five days, and
took her thirteen days to transcribe the court hearings (19:07:14).
Jan often had difficulties in the hearings for unauthorized absence, especially the ones
that involved men from the Philippine’s or African Americans, because she could not
understand them, which caused her to interrupt the court and asked for them to speak
more clearly (20:38:01).
During these hearings, she learned a lot about the people and their backgrounds. Most of
these people were enlisted and not drafted to her knowledge.
Many people attempted to defend themselves, which in one case resulted in a mistrial and
the proceeding had to be redone (22:59:04).
Other cases that Jan dealt with were assaults, admin discharge hearings (one of which
involved three black men involved in a drive-by shooting, where one of the men was
sentenced to ten years or more and was given an undesirable discharge) (24:55:29).
Admin Discharge – were cases that were generally not militarily related, but against
society, such as homosexual cases. Jan knew one girl who was a homosexual that
received an UD (undesirable discharge) who later appealed all the way to the President of
the United States, but was denied (26:17:11).
Homosexuality was a problem back then because it often times was followed by violence,
such as beatings in the barracks and harassment (28:09:26).
Civilian Life (29:00:00)
Many women who joined the Navy in those days did so because of patriotism but also
because of the training, which opened jobs in the civilian world. Jan’s initial tour of duty
was three years, but lasted four years. (29:17:06)
Vietnam caused her enlistment to be extended
After her enlistment ended in 1967, she returned to Holland and later joined the reserves
in 1971 (30:50:20).
Every year she was sent to a two week active duty assignment where she was sent back to
Rhode Island.
Recalled to Active Duty (31:34:23)
In 1975, Jan committed to a two year active duty recall and was stationed in New
Orleans. She was working for the Naval Reserve Chief in the JAG.
She had a totally different job, which included legal documents and legal assistance; she
did not do any reporting.
Jan lived away from base and was forced to take a boat to the base area. Wearing high
heels and a skirt, once she almost fell in the water, and was saved by a Marine (33:10:05)
While there, Jan did not care for the job, but enjoyed being there. She also met her
second husband while in New Orleans (34:16:05).
After her two years, she believes she returned to Rhode Island.
�U.S. Forces Azores (35:26:11)
She describes the area as ‘backwards’. Jan remembers farmers with donkeys and the
local taxi cabs being Mercedes. The base was operated by the Portuguese Air Force.
There she served as the legalman for the base. Mostly small legal matters.
She only stayed for two weeks at a time.
The local population depended highly on the military to support the island
(37:38:06).
The climate was cool and damp, not sun bathing weather. She was there in the March
to April time frame.
Back to Civilian Life (39:43:00)
1977, Jan finished her second tour of active duty and remained with the reserves but
returned to Michigan.
She worked for several different law firms during this time.
In 1991, she moved to Grand Rapids and got a job working for the city, she retained this
job for twenty years.
Jan retired from the reserves in 1997 (40:23:03)
Looking Back to last duty assignment (40:24:00)
Jan served as the legal officer for the Seabees, serving between Grand Rapids and
Detroit.
As the only legal person in the unit, she was also the only female chief in the
battalion (41:22:27)
Only once was she stationed on a ship during her active duty tours, the Nicholson
(43:19:18).
She was a chief at the time, and was the legal expert on the ship after the other
woman legal aid left on leave.
Jan also had difficulties navigating the destroyer escort ship that was out of
Norfolk, Virginia, often getting lost.
She was also worried about going out to sea because she gets seasick (44:46:00)
Luckily, the ship stayed tied to the pier during her time there.
Veterans Organizations (45:40:18)
Jan was first involved with the Furniture City Post of the American Legion, which is a
sea service only post only open to Navy, Coast Guard and Marine veterans.
There, she was the first female commander.
She is also the Judge Advocate of the post (46:27:09)
The Judge Advocate ensures that the protocol and bylaws are followed by the post.
Later she moved up to become the commander of the 5th District, and has held several
different positions in many different areas.
�
Even though it is considered an all boys club, Jan has held many different roles, but is
unable to go higher than the district commander because she is a female. (48:09:25)
She is also a life member of Amvets.
Waves National, is a sea service women’s organization, and she has been involved all the
way to the national level.
Jan is the Regional Officer, but the organization is slowly going away, because most of
the members are World War II veterans and are getting old and unable or unwilling to get
things done. (49:25:26)
Every other year, she attends conventions, which is sometimes held on a cruise ship.
The designation has wanted to change names, but the price of changing names would be
too high, and Jan wanted to see better promotion of the organization. It is open to any
women who served in a sea service capacity.
She believes that she has earned the respect from the men in these veterans’ organizations
by taking on many different tasks, and completing them well.
She has also recently retired from the local honor guard, which is also heavily dominated
by men (52:33:05)
Most of the men in these organizations are Vietnam Era or younger, which give her more
respect than the die hard World War II or Korean vets.
On the honor guard, she would usually serve as one of the riflemen who fire the twenty
one gun salute at funerals, and had to get training on the proper way to handle the rifle
and how it operated. (53:43:07)
Each funeral takes a commitment of about two and half hours. She finds the experience
very rewarding.
Most people don’t understand the military and what it means to serve, even her family.
Jan was awarded Kent County Veteran of the Year, the second woman to receive that
honor. (56:51:25)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RoyJ1479V
Title
A name given to the resource
Roy, Janice (Interview outline and video), 2013
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Roy, Janice
Description
An account of the resource
Jan Roy was born in Holland, Michigan in 1941. She joined the United States Navy in 1963, and served as a court reporter and legalman both on active duty until 1977 and in the Naval Reserve until 1997. She was stationed in New Orleans, Newport, Grand Rapids, the Azores and aboard on the destroyer escort Nickelson. Jan remains active with the local veterans organizations such as the American Legion, Amvets and Waves National. She has attained the positions of commander and judge advocate for the American Legion and was named the Kent County Veteran of the Year.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.)
WKTV
WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Navy
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2013-02-07
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dc22a6fa7d853958cad3e73e3276e44b.pdf
0f7ab8a2db617a7d83ed96caa4f0c9a2
PDF Text
Text
KONINKLIJK BESLUIT VAN 29 DECEMBER 1980, NUMMER 104
WIJ BEATRIX, BIJ DE GRATIE GODS, KONINGIN DER NEDERLANDEN,
PRINSES VAN ORANJE-NASSAU, ENZ. ENZ. ENZ.
Op de voordracht van Onze Minister van Binnenlandse Zaken, Directoraat Generaal Binnenlands
Bestuur, Afdeling Kabinetszaken, van 23 december 1980, nr. BK80/U2217 ; mede namens Onze
Ministers van Defensie en van Cultuur, Recreatie en Maatschappelijk Werk;
overwegende, dat het wenselij k is, een onderscheiding in te stellen ter gelegenheid van de
35-jarige herdenking van de bevrijding voor deelnemers aan het verzet in de Tweede Wereldoorlog
tegen de bezetters van het grondgebied van het Koninkrijk;
HEBBEN GOEDGEVONDEN EN VERSTAAN:
Artikel 1.
Er wordt een herinneringsteken ingesteld, dat de naam zal dragen van "Verzetsherdenkingskruis" .
Artikel 2.
1. Het Verzetsherdenkingskruis wordt toegekend aan:
a. een ieder die behoorde tot een in het Koninklijk besluit van 5 september 1944 Stb. E62
genoemde erkende verzetsgroep of tot een andere bij de Buitengewone Pensioenraad dar\
wel de Stichting 1940-1945 bekende verzetsgroep.
b. een ieder die blijkens een beschikking van de Buitengewone Pensioenraad als deelnemer
aan het verzet in de zin van de Wet buitengewoon pensioen 1940-1945 is of wordt erkend,
ongeacht of hij/zij al dan niet in het genot is van-een pensioen krachtens deze wet.
c. een ieder aan wie met toepassing van de Wet verbetering rechtspositie verzetsmilitairen
(wet van 20 januari 1976, Stb. 19) onder de wapenen doorgebrachte tijd is toegekend.
d. de militairen die hebben behoord tot de Nederlandse Binnenlandse Strijdkrachten in bezet
gebied (ingevolge artikel 2, Se lid van de Wet verbetering rechtspositie verzetsmilitairen).
e. een ieder, die tijdens de Tweede Wereldoorlog in Oost-Azië op door Japan bezet gebied
of Japans gebied aan naar het oordeel van het betreffende comité, bedoeld in artikel 4,
als verzet tegen de vijand aan te merken handelingen heeft deelgenomen.
f. een ieder die, niet vallende onder de bepalingen van a. tot en met e., naar het oordeel van
het comité als bedoeld in artikel 4, eveneens als verzetsdeelnemer kan worden beschouwd.
2. Toekenning zal niet geschieden aan degene die zich tijdens de bezetting van het Koninkrijk
uit Nederlands nationaal oogpunt beschouwd onwaardig heeft gedragen.
Artikel 3.
Toekenning kan posthuum geschieden.
Artikel 4.
De toekenning geschiedt door een voor het voormalig verzet representatief te achten comité,
waarvan samenstelling en werkwijze bij ministerieel besluit van Onze Ministers van Binnenlandse
Zaken, van Defensie en van Cultuur, Recreatie en Maatschappelijk Werk worden geregeld.
�Artikel 5.
De vormgeving van het in artikel 1 bedoelde versiersel en het daaraan verbonden lint wordt nader
door Ons bepaald.
Artikel 6.
1. Het is de begiftigde vergund het kruis dan wel het lint alleen te dragen.
2. Het is degene die gerechtigd is tot het dragen van het herdenkingskruis vergund het kruis van
verkleind model te dragen.
3. Het kruis of lint kan op het militaire uniform gedragen worden .
Artikel 7.
Bij de toekenning van het herdenkingskruis ontvangt de begiftigde een op naam gestelde oorkonde.
Artikel 8.
Dit besluit treedt in werking met ingang van 31 december 1980.
Onze Ministers van Binnenlandse Zaken, van Defensie en van Cultuur, Recreatie en Maatschappelijk Werk zijn, ieder voor zover hem betreft, belast met de uitvoering van dit besluit, dat in het
Staatsblad zal worden geplaatst en waarvan afschrift zal worden gezonden aan de Kanselier der
Nederlandse Orden.
Lage Vuursche, 29 december 1980.
BEATRIX
De Minister van Binnenlandse Zaken ,
H. WIEGEL
Bijlage, behorende bij de in artikel 7 van bovenvermeld Koninklijk besluit bedoelde oorkonde.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman)
Termaat, Peter N.
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar.
Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1869 - 2012
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Netherlands
Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945
World War, 1939-1945
World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands
Dutch
Dutch Americans
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-144
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Text
Image
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
application/pdf
image/jpeg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
nl
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-144_Termaat_AWD_1980-12-29-Resistance-Remembrance-Cross-from-Queen-Beatrix-471
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Beatrix, Queen of the Netherlands
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1980-12-29
Title
A name given to the resource
Royal Decision of 29 December 1980, Number 104
Description
An account of the resource
Royal Decision by Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands to award the Resistence Memorial Cross to members of the 1940-1945 Foundation resistance group and others. In Dutch.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Netherlands -- Awards
Royal ordinances
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NKC/1.0/">No Known Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
nl
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/60500077dfcd2790885a7914a003c7df.jpg
e24f15ed103a1629e82c665c0d90cccf
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Robert H. Merrill photographs
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1909/1950
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copyright
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-222
Description
An account of the resource
Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family.
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Merrill_EastmanAlbum_1_1909_031
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1909-07-07
Title
A name given to the resource
Royal Muskoka
Description
An account of the resource
Black and white photograph of Royal Muskoka Island, Ontario.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Ontario
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copyright
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/eb719dd35775d30c2df1f60cf0cbb043.jpg
b0f73e7a66f481de9edcf6e9dfb4fe61
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Robert H. Merrill photographs
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1909/1950
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copyright
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-222
Description
An account of the resource
Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family.
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Merrill_EastmanAlbum_1_1909_032
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1909-07-07
Title
A name given to the resource
Royal Muskoka Hotel
Description
An account of the resource
Black and white photograph of the Royal Muskoka Hotel exterior, Ontario. The image is somewhat obscured by damage to the negative in the middle of the frame.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Ontario
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copyright
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8b1aaa7418b19c1888a115b198431332.jpg
dfed1f5a9a6df0460bbc44fad975ef87
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Naval Recognition Training Slides
Subject
The topic of the resource
Slides
Military education
Airplanes, Military--Recognition
Warships--Recognition
World War, 1939-1945
Description
An account of the resource
Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
United States. Navy
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-50
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1943-1953
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Source
<a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-50_M1452
Title
A name given to the resource
Royal Sovereign class battleship
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
United States. Navy
Description
An account of the resource
Royal Sovereign class, British-BB (battleship), November 1, 1943.
Subject
The topic of the resource
United States. Navy
World War, 1939-1945
Great Britain
Military education
Slides
Warships--Recognition
Slides
Great Britain
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1943-11-01
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1ced7f289c77813208583c6fddaa7793.jpg
9014afa64d88c1ca3bf20dd5b94d7c8c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Naval Recognition Training Slides
Subject
The topic of the resource
Slides
Military education
Airplanes, Military--Recognition
Warships--Recognition
World War, 1939-1945
Description
An account of the resource
Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
United States. Navy
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-50
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1943-1953
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Source
<a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-50_MX1297
Title
A name given to the resource
Royal Sovereign class battleship
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
United States. Navy
Description
An account of the resource
Royal Sovereign class, British BB (battleship), May 10, 1945.
Subject
The topic of the resource
United States. Navy
World War, 1939-1945
Great Britain
Military education
Warships--Recognition
Slides
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1945-05-10
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives