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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
World War II
Robert Richmond
Length: 39:55
(00:15) Background Information







Robert was born in Shelburne, Indiana in 1924
His father was a coal miner and later became a farmer
Robert helped his father work on the until he was 18 years old
He went to a small school and played football and basketball
Robert graduated in 1942 and then began working for a delivery truck company
He was drafted into the Army on in March of 1943

(6:40) Training
 Robert went through basic training for 13 weeks at Camp Wheeler in Georgia
 He had not really ever traveled before and was really amazed by the size of the camp and
all the people there
 Robert was already used to working hard from growing up on a farm and training was not
that hard on him
 He spent 3 weeks in field training and then 10 weeks training to be a mechanic
 Robert also went through infantry training and often went on 30 mile hikes
 He then went to a camp in Pennsylvania for another 3 weeks and then was shipped
overseas
(12:10) Italy
 Robert’s trip lasted 14 days and they traveled in a zig zag course in order to avoid enemy
submarines
 They landed in Oran and then bivouacked for 3 weeks and worked on unloading supply
ships
 They left the area and went to Sicily and moved across Italy
 There was barely any need for his mechanical help and Robert began working with heavy
weapons instead
 They fought at the Battle of Salerno and the Germans put up quite a fight
 The Americans ended up chasing the Germans to the North of Italy
(19:15) Wounded
 Robert had been working as a first gunner and many men around him were hiding in fox
holes
 A bazooka shell fell into a fox hole near him and exploded

�




Robert was brought o the hospital and spent 8 months recovering
He then went back to Naples and was shipped to North Africa to stay at the 114th Station
Hospital for another 3 weeks
Robert stayed on a hospital ship in Casablanca and then finally took a troop ship back to
the US
The trip only lasted 7 days because they were no longer trying to avoid enemy
submarines

(26:15) Back to the US
 They landed in Virginia and then Robert was sent to a hospital in Georgia
 After his time in the hospital Robert had limited service for one month at Fort Dicks in
New Jersey
 Robert was then transferred to a Signal Corps Photographic Center in New York City
 He then signed up for one more year of service because he was not sure as to what he
wanted to do when he was done in the service
(30:25) Discharged
 Robert got married and had one child during the last year of his service
 He began working in carpentry and found that not many jobs were available
 He and his family moved back up to Indiana and Robert began working for GMC
 Robert worked for GMC for 30 years and then retired

�</text>
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                    <text>Living With PFAS
Interviewee: Rick Rediske
Interviewer: Dani DeVasto
Date: 5/25/2021

DD: I’m Dani DeVasto and today, May 25th 2021, I have the Pleasure of chatting with Dr. Rick
Rediske. Thank you so much, Rick, for being here today.
RR: Good morning.
DD: Good morning. Can you tell me about where you are from and where you currently live?
RR: Well, I'm originally from the Milwaukee Wisconsin area and moved to Ohio and then
moved to Ann Arbor area to finish my doctorate there and then move to West Michigan. So
[chuckling] kind of did a little bit of a circle there.
DD: And how long have you been in West Michigan, roughly?
RR: I've been in West Michigan since 1980 ― so.
DD: Okay, all right. Can you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS [Per- and
polyfluoroalkyl substances] or with PFAS in your community? I know you likely have many.
RR: Yeah, I guess the one to talk about mostly is House Streets in the Rockford area. So I was
asked by a group of concerned citizens that were watching the demolition ― they watch the
demolition of the Tannery and they took all sorts of pictures and were concerned that
contaminants were still present. The contaminants were taken off the site, and they wanted an
expert to help them tie the discussion together and get the EPA [Environmental Protection
Agency] involved. So I originally turned them down because there was ― a lot of stigma about
what they were doing, because Wolverine was a exemplary corporate citizen. They paid for you
know ― a real nice boat launch, they paid for river improvements, the Rogue River. They were
certainly active in the City of Rockford. And I had friends that have businesses in Rockford etc.
And they said you know, steer away from these people, they [chuckle] don't know what they're
doing. And ― and like I said I told them no, and then they came back a year later and actually
came to visit me in my office and brought me a whole bunch of pictures. Lynn McIntosh who is
the ― I guess the leader of the CCRR [Concerned Citizens for Responsible Remediation of
Rockford ] ― she is a former art music teacher and she likes to draw things and ― anyway after
seeing what she put together and some of the records, I became convinced that there was an issue
at the Tannery. We weren't looking at PFAS back then but as I went through all of the data and
looked up what was done at the Tannery, where they have the Scotchgard and made Hush
Puppies, yeah I became more and more concerned about PFAS [computer notification] being at
the Tannery and then wherever they disposed of their waste.
DD: And what ― roughly when was all of this happening? What time?

1

�RR: Well this was a ― I think about 2012, 2013 in that time frame.
DD: And were you aware of PFAS at this time? Cause I know many people were not.
RR: Yeah, I've always ― I have taught classes in environmental chemistry and toxicology, and I
always mention PFAS as being one of those materials that was a miracle. Scotchgard when that
came out, I mean it’s changed the carpet forever and the Gore-Tex clothing. So I had you know
both of those in my household. And I tell all the students that we thought everything was safe
and then we found out that it wasn't. And 3M got out of producing it. So I do include that story in
you know my lectures every year.
DD: So once you were convinced that there was an issue, then what? What came next?
RR: Well then it was my job to put the information together that would help get the DEQ's
[Department of Environmental Quality] attention at the time. They were very much supportive of
what the ― DEQ was very supportive [computer notification] of what Wolverine was doing. So
they were trying to redevelop the property for commercial and residential. And the DEQ, didn't
you know, didn't necessarily approve of the plan but they certainly weren't finding any fault with
you know what they were up to. So there was concern about the chemicals that were left behind.
And what got me interested in PFAS was that there was a fish study in the Rogue River right
outside of the Tannery, and the Smallmouth bass and White sucker were at levels that would
triggered the Fish Consumption Advisories, so I knew there had to be PFAS coming from the
Tannery getting[chuckles] into the water, I mean you wouldn't have a Fish Advisory there if that
wasn't the case. And then probably about a year later in 2000 yeah 2017 ― well 2016, Lynn
McIntosh and Janice Tompkins, two of the CCRR members did some personal interviews. They
found the waste hauler that actually was willing to give an interview saying that he took waste
from the Tannery and dumped them on House Street and dump them in a few other places. So
once we found out about House Street, we were really concerned because that had residential
breaking wells around it, water wells. So yeah it's kind of the history. I was kind of reluctant
person and then I got really involved and ― I helped bring the issue to the forefront with the
interviews for the newspaper and things like that.
DD: And are you still involved now?
RR: Yes, I'm involved with the Community Advisory Group or the CAG. And we don't have a
super fun status, the site is not a super fun site. But given all of the interest, the EPA is allowing
for the formation of a Citizen Advisory Group or Community Advisory Group. Excuse me.
Which is ― we don't have a power to reject something, all we have the ― we got all the
information so, all the information is given to the CAG members and then we can comment on
whatever the EPA and whatever Wolverine is doing. So we have a ability to comment that a lot
of citizen groups do not have, we have a direct channel that was formed because it’s a
Community Advisory Group.
DD: What concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward?

2

�RR:Well the biggest concern is cleaning up the contaminated groundwater. There's 25 square
miles of contaminated groundwater that need to be addressed in one form or another. And then
the other big issue is all the health studies that are going on. There's a number of blood and
public health kind of related studies that are going on for people that have been exposed through
contaminated drinking water. And I think they have already 1000 participants I think I heard that
number. So it started out really slow, there was only a couple hundred, and again the Community
Advisory Group got involved with helping to recruit. We had a couple committees and we got
that number back up so it's going to be a pretty solid study.
DD: Is the Community Advisory Group involved with the groundwater remediation at all, too?
RR: Well we’re involved with everything Wolverine. So we’re involved with the Tannery clean
up, and then we're involved with the Wolven Jewell and the House Street groundwater cleanups.
So we’re ― there’s I think four different types of work plans that are coming out this year that
we have to review. So we just completed reviewing the Tannery poultry system and now we're
reviewing the groundwater and surface water interface, the GSI [Groundwater-Surface Water
Interface] interface for House Street.
DD: Sounds like you are going to be busy.
RR: Yeah, they’re quite lengthy. And they’re technical documents and they have to be ― made
more friendly to the general public. So you have to explain why they’re doing things and [clears
throat] trying [chuckle] explain why they are not doing things which is a challenge. But yeah it's
― I think we’ve got almost 30 people, 27 or something like that and each one has a different
perspective. So we have to all reach consensus on how we want to comment on these documents.
DD: Sounds like a challenging process.
RR: Yes.
DD: Before we wrap up, is there anything you'd like to add that we haven't touched on today?
Any part of your work with PFAS or is anything you'd like to go back to to say more about?
RR: Well I think we're just scratching the surface in the Rockford area as far as trying to fix the
damage to the Rogue River. I think that's our big challenge. And you know the ― I think the
public health ― I mean they responded for the blood levels and getting safe drinking water. But
we have a big challenge to be able to fish and enjoy the Rogue River again so that's out there.
And then the other issue is there are so many PFAS compounds out there that were ― every day
we find out something new. And you know if I would have done this interview a year ago I
would have said 4 to 5000 compounds [unclear] it’s 8000 compounds.
DD: Wow.
RR: There is just a plethora of these materials that are out in the environment. And you know
we’re ― we have to deal with them because they contaminate our drinking water and they're in
our food. So it's really a long-term problem that we’re faced with.

3

�DD: Can you say any more about the fish that ― the dealing with the fish and the river? You
mention that’s something that we're going to have to address.
RR: Yeah. There are several places across the state. Most notably Wurtsmith Air Force Base, the
Au Sable River, and then the Rogue River and the Clinton River, excuse me not Clinton but the
[hand hits the table multiple times] ― Huron River its got a lot of contamination. There is a lot
of areas in the state where this water has been discharged and the fish have accumulated the
PFOS [Perfluorooctane sulfonic acid] [spells out letters] is the compound. It's one of the more
toxic ones and it's one of the few that does bio accumulate like that. So there is warnings out at
different places around the state for not being able to consume fish that contain PFAS. And it
was just recently the smelt runs up in Lake Superior had contamination so it's not just limited to
our locations. And it doesn't take very much. I mean we’re dealing with parts per trillion all the
other contaminants were parts per million and parts per billion. So we're down in a much lower
concentration level than we are from most other compounds.
DD: Parts per trillion sounds like something that would be really tricky to deal with. Tests you
know― test for, communicate about. ―
RR: It is it is. And that’s my analogy of cutting a dollar bill which is a grand. You cut that into a
thousand pieces then you cut one 1000th into a thousand pieces, and you cut one of those 1000th
of a 1000th into a[chuckle] [computer notification] thousand pieces and that's a part per trillion.
[chuckle] So you know it's a very small amount of material. But as I ― when I talked about it it's
one of the few contaminates that circulates in our blood. So it catches a ride on our major carrier
protein that carries are antibodies and carries our hormones. And it's just not something that we
want you know in our bodies or in the environment.
DD: Well, thank you so much Rick for taking the time to share some of your story today.
RR: Sure, sure glad to do it.

4

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                    <text>Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

John and Wilma Riley Interview
Interviewed by Alan Moul
June 18, 2016

Transcript
AM: This is Alan Moul and I'm here with John Riley. That's J-o-h-n R-l-e-y…
WR: R-i…
AM: R-i-l-e-y. And Wilma, his wife, W-i-l-m-a. And the date is June 18th, two thousand sixteen. And this
is part of the oral history being collected and its part of the Growing Community Project through Grand
Valley. So, we're going to talk today about the Riley history in Oceana County and growing fruit,
vegetables, Christmas trees, whatever they would like to talk about. So, John, I guess, where do the
Rileys start in Oceana County? And how did they get here, maybe? Or what are you remembering about
that?
JR: My grandparents came from Alpena area and established what we call the home farm. And my son
lives there now. And I have a place up on the hill just adjoining.
AM: From Alpena then.
JR: Yeah.
1

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

AM: Now, were they farmers there or purchased the farm or what?
WR: No, they had emigrated from Canada.
AM: Oh!
WR: Both his grandparents and also his grandmother's parents came from that area.
AM: Okay.
WR: They came first to Alpena to work in the lumber business and then moved to Mears and his
grandma and grandpa were Richard and Clara Isabel Riley [?]. And they, first of all, became managers of
the old hotel that was there in Mears.
AM: Okay.
JR: At the railroad station.
AM: Was that in town there?
WR: Yes.
JR: There was a branch that went to Pentwater and there was a triangle there and one went to Hart and
they were able to turn the engines around. You had to have a triangle to turn them around.
AM: Well, sure. Yeah, okay.
WR: His grandmother, who was always known to us as “Bel” or Isabel [?], her parents were Alexander
and Caroline Henderson. And the original home farm that John referred to was purchased by Richard
Riley and Isabel from her parents.
AM: Okay, so that would have been originally Henderson's then.
WR: Yes, in the deed.
AM: Now how far back does that deed go?
WR: It would have been in the late eighteen hundreds and I can't give you an exact date on that. His
uncle, Bill, was born in Alpena. And I think that the year of his birth was eighteen ninety-three. So, it
would have been shortly after they came from Alpena and lived there in Mears.
AM: And so that's how they started farming then? They started on that piece of ground.
JR: Yes.
AM: How many... was that a forty [acre farm] or was that? A lot of the farms were quite small back then.
JR: It was a forty.
AM: Okay, yep. And did they grow fruit or what did they do? Do you know?
JR: We've always been known as a fruit farm. And of recent years, twenty years ago we got into
asparagus. Other than that, it was all fruit. Cherries are our main crop, apples, a few peaches, which
none of us like.
2

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

AM: [Laughter] I’m familiar with that.
JR: It takes a lot of [?], they have fuzz that itches.
AM: It does. [Laughter] And the fair is going on at the same time.
WR: But, we like to eat them.
AM: Oh yeah. [Laughter] So then you started farming… now, you yourself, when did you come into the
picture then? I mean, did you work on the farm growing up, as a kid and all?
JR: Oh, yeah.
AM: Always been on the farm.
JR: Oh yeah.
AM: Okay.
WR: His father, Clayton Riley, took it over when his dad died. His dad died very suddenly in nineteen
twenty-seven, just before John was born and his parents then moved to the home place to be with
Grandma Riley. And then eventually Clayton and Flora became the owners or managers, anyway. His
grandmother held the title to the lands until after her death. They managed and everything was under
their care but she was still owner of the property, which is interesting.
AM: Okay.
JR: She didn’t want to let loose.
AM: Didn't want to give up control, huh? That’s understandable.
JR: And she didn’t control anything, but that was her security, I guess.
AM: Yeah, mentally, anyway, it was yeah. So how many brothers did you have?
JR: Two brothers and two sisters.
AM: Okay.
JR: There were three boys and two girls.
AM: Okay. Did they all farm then?
JR: No, I’m the only one that...
AM: You were the smart one that stayed on the farm.
JR: You said it! [Laughter]
AM: We all know all the jokes about how much money does it take? You know, you farm till it's gone
and all that. [Laughter] So then you continued, probably, to… unless you've got like a timeline that you
want to go through?
WR: No, no. This is just about the Hendersons.
3

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

JR: Everybody that owned the farm expanded, you know.
AM: Right. Okay, yeah.
WR: It was interesting, just recently - and I read this in an old copy of the Mears News - and it tells that
the owner of the piece of property that we now own and live on, a part of the farm was sold to a man
named Mr. Pike. And Swift, in his little paper, said, “I presume,” something to this effect, “I presume
that when Mr. Pike finishes this transaction that he will call it Pike's Peak.”
AM: [Laughter] Up on the hill, huh?
WR: Yeah, yeah. And it's, to this day, it's still called the Pike Place.
AM: So, did land… did you refer to pieces of land by names like that? Like today we… I know we had
them on our farm.
JR: Every piece of property had to have a name because when you went to the field, you had to know
where you were going. And often they took the name of the people you bought from.
AM: We had some “by the rock.” There was a big rock. “By the rock” or “north of the woods.” But you're
right, usually the previous owner or… because we tried doing a number system one time and there were
too many numbers, you couldn't remember them all.
WR: Right.
AM: So, yep. Let's see, so what do you… you served in World War Two, right?
JR: Yes.
AM: So, at some point you went off to that and then how did the farm carry on while you were gone
then?
JR: Well, it was still in the family farm. And my dad and mom farmed it and I went to the service right
after school so I hadn’t really gotten started in it.
AM: Okay, so you were nineteen or so.
JR: Yeah. When we came back, then we… I decided to farm and started there.
AM: Did you have hired hands or migrants or Mexican helpers or what did you have at that point? I
know on our farm there was a lot of Southern workers.
JR: Yeah, we had Southern people and we had housing for them that was a bear shelter.
AM: Sure. Wouldn't pass now, would it?
JR: No, no, no, no, no. In fact, the house where we live was one of the houses that the pickers lived in.
AM: Okay.
WR: But not the house that we live in now.
JR: The site.

4

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

WR: Yeah.
AM: Okay, there’s pictures here.
WR: ...of some when they were still picking cherries by hand. I found these last night and this is John and
one of the older people. What was the older man's name?
JR: Mr. Hilt.
WR: Mr. Hilt, yes. And he had his own little part of the… he lived in one of the old buildings here at the
farm. I brought that picture because it shows the old buildings at the farm.
AM: Now, how many migrant workers do you think you had at the peak… would you have had
harvesting cherries?
JR: We never picked; most of my life, we’ve mechanically harvested. We had a crew, though, that came
in and picked and they hauled them over to the plant in Hart - the Stokely plant.
AM: Sure.
JR: And they brought their people with them.
AM: Crew leaders with big trucks, like with a canvas top. I remember that, barely, but I do remember
that.
JR: And then, from then on, the Labor Department got in it and every year we had to make
improvements. And we have quite nice labor housing now.
AM: Right, sure.
WR: At one time, after his father died - John's father, Clayton, died - and I can remember doing the
payroll and it was for over sixty.
AM: Okay.
WR: But that was, originally, when a family would come they would all pick under one name. And that
built up Daddy’s Social Security.
AM: Sure.
WR: And then, you know, the government regulations changed. And then we had to use the name of
every individual.
AM: Right.
WR: But we weren't long in that because then we went to mechanical harvesting.
AM: Yeah. Now you had - when you did start mechanically harvesting - you had a Friday shaker, right?
JR: Yes.
AM: Okay, and that was two frames that came around the tree and there was a conveyor. We had a
different kind, so I'm having trouble remembering exactly. But everybody kind of chose the one that fit
their farm and the one they liked the best.
5

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

JR: It had two inclined planes that got most of the cherries, some went over the edges, but they went
down to a conveyor and the conveyor went from there, right into the cherry tank.
AM: Okay, what year do you think you started? Did you put cherries in water before you mechanically
harvested at all?
JR: No.
AM: Never did.
JR: No.
AM: Okay, just when you took them to the plant and dumped them in the big tanks.
JR: Yeah.
AM: Okay. And I remember the long lines with the juice running everywhere from the lugs.
JR: Yes.
AM: You could hardly walk across the trailer because it was so sticky it would just pull your shoes off,
almost. [Laughter] And then, so we started mechanically harvesting then and so you could cover more
ground. I mean, now you could plant more acres.
JR: Yeah. I don't know how many pickers we’d need to have now to take care of the one shaker. And
we’ve got two.
AM: Now they have a wraparound...
JR: Yeah.
AM: ...shaker that shakes the trunk, yeah, a one man...
JR: An upside-down umbrella, I call it. [Laughter]
AM: Right, yep. Was there any backlash from the migrants when the shaking started because they were
kind of losing their part of their season, anyway.
JR: There was incidents around but we never had any.
AM: Okay, good.
JR: They would go out and slit the canvases and there wasn't much of it.
AM: More frustration probably than anything, I think.
JR: Yeah.
AM: Tell me a little bit about the people you did have working for you. I know some people formed
relationships with the people and became good friends and is there any memories you have of that?
Any specific people or…?

6

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

JR: No, not really, because my uncle, Bill, my dad's brother, had a crew leader and we didn't have a crew
because we had enough help that we handled the distribution, throwing the boxes off and picking them
up and hauling them to the factory.
AM: So, you didn't interface with the people a whole lot then? Not like a crew leader would.
WR: Remember Mr. Hilts and Vern, they came every year.
JR: Over years, yes, they came. That's when we handpicked.
WR: Yes.
AM: Did you ever visit any of them…
JR: Yes.
AM: ...in their homes in the south?
JR: Mr. Hilts in Muskegon, we have been there.
AM: Oh, he was in Muskegon?
WR: Yeah, he’s from Muskegon.
AM: Okay, so there were local people, too, that drove up and worked?
JR and WR: Oh yeah.
JR: And we had a cabin for him.
AM: Okay.
JR: He was almost part of the family.
AM: Sure. It was a different time.
JR: Yep, and when he went home, when I was a little boy, I cried. He was a storyteller and I’d go out and
he’d sit and puff on his pipe and tell about the woods and he worked for the lumber company, lumber
camp.
AM: Sure, okay. So, then your kids, Mark and Daniel, the boys, started farming with you then. And when
would that have been?
WR: When, well, actually we got our first shaker - the Friday - when Mark was still in high school. In fact,
he was fourteen years old the first summer that we had the Friday.
JR: We had to weigh it down so he could see over it - tilt it - it was, you know, flexibility. But he would
walk on his tiptoes all summer peeking over that thing and it had limb shakers at that time.
AM: Yes, I remember that; we had one a different style. Do you remember, did the first shakers… I seem
to remember seeing one that was on a harness, a guy carried like a chainsaw on an arm - very
lightweight. But was there something like that or am I imagining?
JR: No, there were those that somebody that had a few acres.
7

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

AM: Okay, and they didn't last long.
JR: No, no.
WR: They were limb shakers.
JR: A lot of work and you had to catch them on something canvas and dump them into a box.
AM: And it was an idea in the beginning, wasn't it? It was somebody's idea, other than hand picking.
[Laughter] Yeah, there's all the old stories of all the broken ladders and my brother and I were talking
the other day about the nine foot. They always wanted a nine-foot ladder. Well, you didn't want to give
many of them out because they’d stand on top of that and pretty soon you'd hear “crack” and down
they'd go. And I just remember that we’d have to fix the nine footers.
JR: We had six and eight, most of them. Two or three tens. But, the top step was quite big, was quite
large, and that was quite comfortable to stand on.
AM: As long as you could hold a branch.
JR: Yeah.
AM: Yeah, never let them do it today.
WR: Yeah, I can remember in my day picking cherries that I could position that ladder so I could get up
there and sit on that top board and pull the cherries to me, you know, to drop into the bucket.
AM: How many lugs could you pick in a day? Do you remember?
WR: I think my top picking was fourteen lugs in one day.
AM: Wow, those were what? Twenty-two, twenty-four-pound lugs, something like that?
WR: And I think it was like over four hundred pounds.
AM: Okay.
WR: I made one time [laughter], but that was because I picked under the authority of an older brother
who took no mercy...
AM: No.
WR: ...on me at all.
AM: Get to work, huh!
WR: Yeah.
AM: Older brothers can do that, I guess.
JR: But one of the interesting things when we were kids, we had a five-gallon milk can and we put trays
of ice in that and we had to carry that around, people to people…
AM: ...to give them drinks.
JR: ...down the row to give them a drink. We had a dipper.
8

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

AM: Yep. [Laughter]
JR: And we had one guy that he chewed tobacco and a lady who lived in Pentwater, they drove in every
day and she got that dipper and she got around and drunk from the handle where nobody else could do
it. I said, “that’s funny, you drink just like the guy next door!” She spit it out and carried her water from
then on.
AM: [Laughter] I remember my dad taking jugs of half frozen… he’d freeze it and then he'd fill the top
with water and take it out and they wouldn't drink it. They said, “well, just throw it under the tree over
there. It's too cold. It'll make us sick.” They wouldn't drink that ice water. They'd let it warm up. It was
just strange to me.
JR: I never heard that.
AM: What other memories do you have of those days of more hand labor, you know?
JR: Well, when we had to pick up the lugs right under the tree, there'd be a stack of six, seven to ten,
maybe; if it was a family, twelve, fourteen. And we would pick up three at a time with a handle and we’d
put our knee under it and grab it right underneath. And we always paid for the pounds, so we had to
weigh each one.
AM: Okay. I think that was quite common. I know Munger did that a lot and he had a lot of cherries, I
guess.
JR: And we had to set the scale back to the weight of the lug.
AM: The empty log.
JR: And every night my mother would average it out and we would either come up a little high or a little
short. We had to set the scale back the next day to compensate. She wanted to pay the right amount.
AM: Okay, yeah.
JR: You know, you could gain a pound on every lug, you know, but she was very conscious…
AM: Very honest about it.
JR: ...very conscious.
AM: It's kind of like getting wet apple boxes back when you took dry ones in. You lose money every
time. So, let me ask you, what asparagus… you said you got into asparagus. What year would you say?
JR: Boy, I don't know.
WR: The kids were still in high school.
AM: Late, late ‘60s or early ‘70s? Okay.
WR: It was just a small field that was next to where Mark lives now.
AM: And where did you plant... what fields did you plant? And how did you decide where to plant your
asparagus?

9

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

JR: Well, you decide... we wanted to plant cherries. That was our number one goal. We’re cherry
farmers and then apples where it was suitable. And that was our main [crop]. We never was into
peaches much, a little bit, but not much.
AM: I seem to remember a story about... was it Amber Gems that everybody wanted and then they
didn't want them all of a sudden? Was that the one?
JR: That was the first [?] that came out. But they had a red pit cavity and then when they processed it, it
turned brown.
AM: Okay, that was the demise of them then. I know a lot of guys planted them and then turned right
around pretty much and took them out. But I guess that's one of the risks of…
JR: Well, you never know. Almost every fruit variety has a bad point, yeah.
AM: Nowadays, with all these new apple varieties that are so expensive that you have to buy - I don't
know how it works - shares in a...
[End of Audio Recording]

10

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Bob Rimmer
World War II &amp; Korean Era
54 minutes 5 seconds
(00:00:12) Early Life
-Born in St. Paul, Minnesota on April 25, 1923
-Father was an underground iron ore minor on the Mesabi Range as an iron ore miner
-Family moved to Flint, Michigan
-Father became a foreman for Arctic Dairy
-Eventually became a route foreman in charge of five or six drivers
-His mother was a housewife
-He had one sister that was a year younger than him and a brother nine years younger
-He lived in Flint until 1932
-His father bought a dairy in Hutchinson, Kansas
-Manufactured ice cream and other dairy products
-Lived there until 1938
-Moved to Lyons, Kansas
-Father worked a dairy route there
-Father bought a restaurant in Cunningham, Kansas
-He moved back to Flint to work his aunt and uncle‟s hamburger restaurant
-He eventually moved back to Kansas where he enlisted in the Coast Guard in March 1942
(00:02:52) Start of the War and Enlisting
-Enlisted in the Coast Guard in March 1942
-Everyone else he knew was enlisting and he felt he owed something to his country
-Remembers coming in from working in the oil fields and going into his father‟s restaurant
-It was the morning of December 7, 1941
-Remembers his mother crying
-Went out with a few friends and decided that they would have to fight
(00:04:08) Overview of Service
-Sent to Long Island, New York for basic training
-Sent to Bay City, Michigan where he was a truck driver for the 9th District of the Coast Guard
-Sent to California where he boarded the USS Long Beach
-Conducted patrols in the South Pacific
-Ship returned to the United States in 1944 and he was sent to Seattle, Washington
-From Seattle he was sent to St. Louis, Missouri where he was discharged in June 1946
-Duty in St. Louis was maintenance and to continue being a truck driver
(00:05:48) Life after the War
-Returned to Michigan in 1946
-Found work at Continental Motors
-Went to college
-Went to work at a centrifugal foundry and worked on the design board there
-Worked for Sealed Power Corporation when they took over
-Worked as a plant engineer in South Haven, Michigan

�-Eventually started a welding business with a friend
-Sold the business after a while
-Went to Muskegon, Michigan to work for Lorin Industries
-Got a job in Montague, Michigan with Tech Cast
-Worked there as a plant engineer
-Went back to work in South Haven with the same company that he had worked for there
-Went to work for another foundry and retired in 1978
(00:08:34) Basic Training
-Sent to Long Island, New York for basic training
-Basic training lasted for three months
-The main emphasis was on discipline
-He got assigned to being a truck driver because he had truck driving experience
-Led to being assigned to transportation
(00:09:40) Stationed in Michigan
-He was sent to Bay City, Michigan in June 1942
-Sent there by train
-He drove truck there for the 9th District of the Coast Guard until he was sent to California
-Duty was the transportation of personnel
(00:10:17) Boarding USS Long Beach
-He took a train out to California and boarded the USS Long Beach
-A Tacoma-class frigate
-Had a crew of 220 men
-303 feet long and 37.5 feet wide
-Had two 3” guns and three .40 caliber multi-barrel machine guns
-NOTE: Actual armaments: three 3” guns and four 40mm guns
-He stayed in California for a couple months waiting to be deployed
-Went on a shakedown cruise and had further repairs done before leaving the United States
-USS Long Beach left San Diego, California on January 12, 1944
-He adapted well to being at sea
(00:12:32) Patrols in the South Pacific Pt. 1
-Went to Noumea, New Caledonia
-Sailed from there to Cairns, Australia
-Sailed around New Guinea
-Took part in the invasion of Hollandia
-Specifically the island of Aitape on April 19, 1944
-Remembers playing softball on a Landing Ship, Tank after the invasion
-Primary duty was patrols and the escort of ships
-Remembers escorting a few hospital ships
(00:13:58) Duty aboard the Long Beach Pt. 1
-He was stationed in the engine room as a Machinist Mate 1st Class
-He would work for four hours and then be off for eight hours
-Making sure that there weren‟t any problems and that everything was running correctly
-Only had one minor engine breakdown while at sea
(00:14:48) Patrols in the South Pacific Pt. 2
-Went to Wewak, Finschhafen, Morotai, and Sansapor, New Guinea
-Went to New Caledonia

�-Went to Cairns, Australia
-Went to Pago Pago
-Escorted and oversaw some Marine invasions
-Protecting Landing Ship, Tanks and other personnel carriers
-Patrolled the South Pacific until late 1944
(00:16:20) Enemy Contact Pt. 1
-Saw several suicide attacks from Japanese planes
-Disturbing to watch Japanese planes dive into American ships
(00:16:56) Contact with Civilians
-Landed on one island that had a lot of coconut trees
-They would pay the natives cigarettes to go and gather a few coconuts
-The natives in New Guinea were friendly and welcoming to Americans
-He sent a few coconut shells home as souvenirs to his family
(00:18:25) Enemy Contact Pt. 2
-Japanese air attacks happened every two or three days
-They would receive information that enemy aircraft were in the area
-Tried to prepare for them or get away from them if at all possible
-Remembers passing through the Admiralty Islands and seeing Japanese soldiers on one island
-They were shooting at the ship with their rifles
-Hoping to pick off a sailor that was on deck
-They were able to destroy a few mines that they spotted
-When making contact with the enemy they would go to general quarters
-Meant that everyone put on a lifejacket and went to their battle stations
-His place was on the fantail, or the back, of the ship
-Looking for any sign of the enemy then report it to the bridge
-They had torpedoes and depth charges available to be used against Japanese submarines
-They spotted a few submarines and attacked them
-Never knew if they had been successful though
-Didn‟t want to stay in the area too long to find out
-It was also a rarity to spot a submarine
(00:22:57) Weather Conditions in the South Pacific
-They never had any consistently bad weather, or run into any storms
-Remembers they would get some rough water though
-One wave that washed over the ship was eight feet higher than the deck
-Meant that it was about fifty eight feet in height
(00:23:52) Living Conditions
-No one was ever washed overboard
-One sailor had a heart attack and had to be taken to a hospital ship though
-The engine room was always 120oF-125oF and the boiler room was always 130oF
-The air temperature on the deck was in the 80s or 90s
-Wore the white sailor cap, jeans, dungarees, and a denim shirt
-Remembers there was one sailor that had misshapen ears
-The doctor came aboard the ship and gave him cosmetic surgery
-Made the sailor happy because he finally looked normal
(00:26:32) Stateside Duty and End of the War
-After patrols were done in the South Pacific he returned to the United States

�-USS Long Beach was sent to Brooklyn for repairs due to sustaining some minor damage
-Damage wasn‟t serious enough to require being taken to a dry dock
-NOTE: The USS Long Beach was taken to Boston on January 25, 1944
-Placed on a train and sent out to Seattle, Washington
-He was on a train going cross country when the train stopped in a small town in California
-A couple men got off and went over to a grocery store to buy a few cases of beer
-Celebrating Victory in Japan Day
-Drinks had been cut off on the train to prevent overdrinking in celebration
-Relief over the use of the atomic bombs amongst servicemen and civilians
-Servicemen were glad to not have to be in Japan
-Civilians were happy that the war would be over and their men could come home
-He was stationed in St. Louis until he was discharged in June 1946
-Stationed in a business administration building that the Coast Guard was using
-His job was to do maintenance work in the building
(00:32:00) Contact with Family
-He was able to visit his family for two or three days on leave a couple times
-His mother died from cancer two days after he went to sea
-He brought his younger brother to St. Louis to visit while he was stationed there
(00:32:45) United States Navy Reserve
-Two (or three) months after getting discharged he enlisted in the United States Navy Reserve
-After getting out of the Coast Guard he married a WWII widow that had two children
-He was called to duty in September 1951
-NOTE: Since he served aboard the USS Ammen it would have been 1951, not „52
-Got discharged from the Navy Reserve in December 1953
-When he was called to duty he was assigned to the USS Ammen in her engine room
-Took it on a shakedown cruise then went into the Atlantic for patrols
-At the time the Korean War was being fought
-Remembers that a lot of civilians were against it
-Felt that WWII had been enough of a sacrifice for the time being
-There was a rumor that there were Soviet forces in the North Atlantic
-The Ammen was dispatched to go investigate that claim
-Sailed around the North Atlantic for three or four months
-NOTE: The Ammen stayed in the Atlantic and Mediterranean until February 1953
-Remembers that it was cold and he was one iceberg
-The sea was choppy, but not exactly “rough”
-Compared to the Pacific though, the Pacific was farm calmer and much warmer
-Remembers that at one time they were almost run over by another ship
-The USS Ammen was slightly larger and slightly heavier armed than the USS Long Beach
-Had a crew of 250 men and 4” guns instead of 3” guns
-He reprised his rank and duty as a Machinist Mate 1st Class in the engine room
(00:41:35) Living Conditions on the Ammen
-Morale was good
-It was a more relaxed atmosphere than it had been aboard the Long Beach
-They would make and swap crossword puzzles with each other to pass the time
-Doesn‟t remember anyone ever getting out of line and doing anything stupid or reckless
-Did drills to stay prepared like they had done on the Long Beach

�-Remembers they had a few false alarms due to sonar picking up an unidentified object
-Tried not to think about sinking
-Slept on cots on bunk beds that held three cots
-Would get a decent night of sleep unless you were scheduled to be on watch
(00:47:55) End of Service
-After the Atlantic cruise they returned to Charleston, South Carolina in February 1953
-NOTE: The USS Ammen would have pulled into Newport, Rhode Island
-He stayed in the Navy Reserve for a few more months before getting discharged in December
(00:48:24) Comparing Coast Guard and Navy
-His experiences in the Coast Guard and the Navy were basically the same
-There was rivalry between the branches
-Never had any impact on him from serving in the Coast Guard though
(00:49:25) Coming Home
-After getting discharged from the Navy Reserve he got a ride from a coal truck
-Rode that for a few hundred miles
-Then got on a Greyhound bus and rode that the rest of the way home
(00:50:03) Reflections on Service
-Cherished the sense of camaraderie
-His time in the Coast Guard qualified him for the GI Bill
-Paid for college at St. Louis University and Muskegon Community College
-Attended college at Muskegon Community College with other veterans
-Considers it an interesting part of his life
-Feels fortunate that he was able to make it through his service uninjured and alive
-Feels gratified that he was able to do it, and has no regrets

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Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. &#13;
&#13;
Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections.&#13;
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Cornelius Ringnalda &amp; Richard Herrema
(00:42:27)
(00:30) Background information
•
•
•
•
•
•

Richard was born in Michigan in the early twenties and grew up in Grand Rapids
He worked on his father’s farm and was drafted into the service after high school
Because he worked on a farm, he was given the choice of deferment, but went into the
service right away because his friend had done so also
Cornelius was born in Grand rapids, MI
His father was a carpenter and Cornelius left school when he was 16 years old to work
with his father
He was later drafted into the military

(3:30) Training
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•

Cornelius was inducted in Chicago and was then sent to Camp Fanning in Texas
He was in Texas for 6 months where they mostly did a lot of drilling and marching
Richard was inducted in Illinois and began infantry training in Arkansas for 14 weeks
He then volunteered for the Air Force Cadet program and was sent to Florida
He went to classes at a college in Ohio for 4 months, working on math, history, English
The classes were all very hard and they also had to work on flight training
He was later sent to Texas for classification and then to armament school in Colorado
Richard became a gunner with a B-29 outfit and was assigned to a crew in California

(11:20) Overseas
•
•
•
•
•
•

Richard was sent to the South Pacific from Washington in January of 1945
Cornelius had been given a 10 day furlough after basic training before he was sent into
the Pacific
They stopped in Hawaii and then Saipan before landing in Okinawa to replace other
troops
Many men had been lost and it was the fourth day into the invasion
Cornelius was working in Okinawa for 4 weeks and thought it was a beautiful island
He had been assigned to the 383rd Infantry Regiment, but it always seemed like no one
had any idea of what was going on

(20:20) Richard’s Trip Overseas

�•
•
•
•
•
•
•

Richard had flown over the Pacific on a civilian air craft
They landed in New Guinea and stayed there for about 30 days
They were flying from New Guinea and bombing Japanese depots and other areas where
they were hiding in the hills
He was assigned to the 13th Air Force and sent to the Philippines
They were staying in tents with Navy Seabees
There were many civilians living in the surrounding hills of their base and they were all
quite primitive
They flew missions at least once a week and Richard had flown on 21 missions altogether

(27:50) Cornelius is Wounded
•
•
•
•
•

Cornelius had been in Okinawa for about 2 weeks when they were able to secure the area
from a large hill
He had left camp to go fill up his canteen when he and others were attacked and he was
shot in the arm
A friend helped him back to camp, but it took quite a while because everyone had
declared them MIA
Cornelius was sent to an aid station and then taken by plane to a hospital in Guam where
he stayed for 2 weeks
He was later sent to a hospital in Colorado and was there when the war ended

(34:45) The End of the War
•
•
•
•

Richard had been in the Philippines when the war ended
Everyone was preparing to go home and bring all the equipment back
They ended up waiting there for about two months with nothing to do and ended up
taking a liberty ship back to San Francisco
He was back in Chicago on Christmas day and then took about three months off before
going back to work

�</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719"&gt;Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Alvin Rippen
World War II
59 minutes 19 seconds
(00:00:48) Early Life
-Born in Franklin County, Nebraska on November 6, 1917
-He was born and raised on a farm in Franklin County
-He attended high school in Campbell, Nebraska
-Rode a pony to school every day for four years
-For grades one through eight he attended a country school house with only one teacher
-He graduated from high school in 1935
-His family was able to keep the farm through the Great Depression
-He, his father and his siblings all worked the farm
-His mother died in 1929 at the age of thirty six
-Their farm grew wheat, oats, and corn and they raised cattle, hogs, and chickens
(00:02:57) College
-He attended the University of Nebraska in Lincoln, Nebraska
-He got in due to a referral by the superintendent from high school
-He started college in the fall of 1935
-While at University of Nebraska he had a part time job at the University’s dairy plant
-Worked that job for four years
-He majored in dairy farming
-After going for an extra semester he graduated from the University of Nebraska in January 1940
-From the University of Nebraska he was able to get into Ohio State University
-He got in due to a professor he’d had at University of Nebraska
-While at Ohio State University he got his master’s degree
(00:05:33) Pre-War Life
-He finished at Ohio State University before the attack on Pearl Harbor
-He got a job in Chicago working for a dairy equipment company in the summer of 1941
-He was living in Chicago when the attack on Pearl Harbor happened
-He rented out a house with a few other men who worked at the same plant
-The house that he lived in was on Elm Street in Chicago
(00:07:24) Start of the War and Enlisting
-Remembers hearing about the reports of the attack on Pearl Harbor
-Soon after he and his housemates began discussing how they would get involved in the war
-He was interested in becoming a Navy pilot
-He knew for certain that he didn’t want to become an Army draftee
-He went to a recruiter and told him that he wanted to become a Navy pilot
-Asked if he had ever been in a plane before and confessed that he hadn’t
-Recruiter told him to ride in a plane then come talk to him afterwards
-He went to Midway Airfield and took a ride in a plane over Chicago
-He returned to the recruiter and told him that he was still interested in becoming a pilot
-He enlisted in November 1942

�(00:10:17) Basic Training
-He was first sent to the University of Iowa for pre-flight school
-Consisted of learning about the Navy and getting in shape
-At the time he couldn’t even swim, so he spent extra time learning how to swim
-When he started pre-flight school he was in good physical shape
-They were told the rules and about the culture of the Navy
-They were given an explanation of how the war had begun
-He remembers having to march in the snow
-The men that he trained with were much younger than he was
-Most of them were fresh out of high school and four or five years younger than him
-He was called “old man” by the younger trainees
-He spent three months at the University of Iowa
(00:14:00) Primary Training
-From the University of Iowa he was sent to Glenview, Illinois for primary training
-In primary training he got to fly an airplane for the first time
-Started off by training with the NCN (a Navy biplane used for training)
-He began his training there in February 1943
-He almost washed out during primary training due to the difficulty of it
-The flight instructors that he had were all Navy personnel (no civilian flight instructors)
-One of the first things he had to overcome was relaxing while flying
-His instructor only made him tenser
-After four weeks he was given a new instructor
-Once the weather warmed up he was able to relax more
-After completing his final flight test he was allowed to advance
-While he was at Glenview he also learned how to land a plane
-At least a fifth of the trainees quit the program
-They were allowed to go on leave a couple times and visit Chicago
-In Glenview he received further classroom instruction
-Started to learn about navigation
-His college background made the classroom work easier for him
-He spent three months at Glenview
(00:21:10) Advanced Training
-From Glenview he was sent to Corpus Christi, Texas for advanced training
-The plane that he started working with there was the SNJ
-Flew out of Cudahy Field near Corpus Christi
-Enjoyed flying the SNJ
-Faster than the NCN biplane
-Just all around more fun to fly
-They were instructed to always look for a safe place to land in case of an emergency landing
-At Corpus Christi he learned how to do formation flying and instrument flying
-Instrument flying involved flying without using surroundings as a point of reference
-Had to rely solely on the plane’s instruments
-During instrument flying he got airsick
-Only time he ever got airsick
-Didn’t affect his evaluation
-He just had to clean up the plane after he threw up in it

�-He had an easier time flying in Corpus Christi
-Continued to have Navy instructors there
-At Corpus Christi he received further swimming training and classroom instruction
-Taught about the mechanics of the airplane and the mechanics of flight
-He met his future wife in Corpus Christi
-Bought his wedding ring in Corpus Christi, and his wife still has it today
-He finished training at Corpus Christi on September 16, 1943
(00:26:00) Dive Bomber Training
-From Corpus Christi he was transferred to Jacksonville, Florida
-In Jacksonville he was assigned to become a dive bomber pilot
-First time using an aircraft that was actually being used by the Navy
-He flew out of Cecil Field outside of Jacksonville
-Trained with the SBD Dauntless dive bomber
-Not very different than the SNJ that he had trained with
-It had different, specialized flaps for dive bombing
-He used smoke bombs to hit targets during training runs
-He got to fly out over the ocean
-The SBD was a slow, clumsy and underpowered plane which didn’t bode well with the pilots
-He received night flying at Jacksonville as well as daytime flying
-When he was at Jacksonville he was still taking off and landing on land
-He began to receive training on how to make a landing on an aircraft carrier
-Landing on a shortened airstrip
-Watching the ground crew to receive signals for landing
-He got married in Jacksonville on October 23, 1943
-His wife had to live in an off base apartment
-At night they would eat dinner together on base
-He stayed in Jacksonville a few months
(00:30:20) Aircraft Carrier Training
-From Jacksonville he returned to Glenview, Illinois for aircraft carrier training
-There were two training carriers in Lake Michigan: USS Wolverine and USS Sable
-He made his first aircraft carrier landing on one of those in Lake Michigan
-The first landing that he made required attentive listening to the instructor
-When he landed the tail hook cable caught the plane which surprised him
-Accidents were fairly common
-Both carriers had a steel cable mesh barrier to stop planes that didn’t catch a tail hook cable
-It stopped the plane from going off the edge of the carrier into the water
-The weather stayed good while he was training there
(00:34:13) Deployment to Hawaii
-After completing carrier training he was sent to San Diego, California
-He was given a short leave before being deployed
-He travelled out to California by train with his wife
-Not soon after arriving in California he was loaded onto a ship bound for Hawaii
-His wife returned to Ohio to wait for him with her family
-The ship that he took to Hawaii was a Kaiser aircraft carrier
-Carried a limited amount of personnel and aircraft
-The island that they arrived at was Oahu

�-After arriving at Hawaii he was sent to Kaneohe Navy Base in north Oahu
-He continued to train with the SBD Dauntless on how to dive bomb
-The men that he was training with were replacement pilots
-He spent about one month training in Hawaii
-He remembers eating a lot of pineapple
(00:36:11) USS Lexington
-In Hawaii he was assigned to the aircraft carrier the USS Lexington
-He was assigned to VB 16, a dive bomber unit aboard the Lexington
-The first target that he bombed was on Guam
-The second target that he bombed was at the Marianas Islands
-Specifically the island of Saipan
-Aboard the Lexington he witnessed the “Great Marianas Turkey Shoot”
-A catastrophic aerial defeat for the Japanese
-A Japanese fleet arrived in their area from the Philippines hoping to attack his fleet
-American fighter planes intercepted the Japanese bombers and decimated them
-He was able to watch the aerial combat from the Lexington
-He remembers watching the battleship USS North Carolina ripping apart enemy planes
-The task force didn’t suffer much damage from the Japanese attack
-The next day American planes were sent out to attack the Japanese ships
-Wound up being a fairly successful attack forcing the Japanese to retreat
-During bombing runs on enemy airfields he made sure to focus on buildings
-Specifically hangars and any building that looked useful to the Japanese
-During the bombing of Saipan he received heavy enemy fire, but was never hit
-At this point in the war he was never attacked by Japanese fighter planes
-Most had been destroyed in the “Turkey Shoot” or pulled closer to Japan
-For bombing run had to come within one thousand feet of a target
-Sometimes had to get as close as a few hundred feet above the target
-Aboard the Lexington he flew a few depth charge patrols
-Flying out with a depth charge looking for Japanese submarines to attack
-Always dropped the charge before landing because it was too dangerous to carry
(00:45:00) Returning to the United States and Instructor Work
-After being on the Lexington for six weeks his unit was rotated back to the United States
-The SBD Dauntless was replaced with the Curtiss Helldiver
-As a result of the replacement he was made a dive bomber instructor
-Stationed at Jacksonville, Florida
-Still used the SBD for training purposes
-He enjoyed being an instructor
-Worked at Jacksonville for about two (or three) months
(00:46:38) Fighter Pilot Training
-When kamikaze attacks began in the Pacific the Navy decided they needed more fighter pilots
-He was assigned to become a fighter pilot flying the Hellcat fighter plane
-He was sent to the West Coast for fighter pilot training
-First at Seattle and Pasco, Washington
-Later in California and Hawaii
-He was assigned to Air Group 2
-He enjoyed flying the Hellcat

�-In Hawaii he received practice on how to shoot at flying, moving targets
-Targets were towed by other planes to be shot at by fighter pilots
-The Hellcat had incredible firepower with six .50 caliber machine guns
-He completed his fighter pilot training at Hilo, Hawaii after five (or six weeks)
(00:49:38) Stationed at Saipan
-From Hawaii he and the rest of Air Group 2 was sent to Saipan
-They lived in Quonset huts on the Navy base there
-He spent about a month on Saipan before being assigned to another ship
-They had a lot of downtime at Saipan because Japanese activity had mostly stopped
(00:50:28) USS Shangri-La
-He was assigned to the USS Shangri-La aircraft carrier from Saipan
-Aboard the Shangri-La he continued with practice maneuvers
-He boarded the carrier in June 1945
-Only two months later the atomic bombs were dropped and Japan surrendered
-After the surrender he was able to fly over Tokyo
-Last flight that he ever made
-He never had any combat while flying the Hellcat
-The Shangri-La sailed down to Yokohama, Japan and anchored there
-He was able to go ashore and visit Tokyo
-Japanese civilians weren’t hostile, just glad that the war was finally over
-Tokyo had suffered extensive damage from the firebombing campaign
-From Yokohama they sailed down to Okinawa, Japan
-He went ashore there for a couple days as well
(00:53:18) Coming Home and End of Service
-In Japan he boarded the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise to return to the United States
-There were so many servicemen onboard he had to sleep on a cot under a stairwell
-When he arrived in the United States in December 1945 he was discharged from the Navy
-He was in the Naval Reserves for a few years after being discharged
-When Korea began he was concerned that he was going to be called to active duty
-He was never called up for active duty though
(00:54:34) Life after the War
-After the war he continued to work at the dairy company in Chicago he’d worked at before
-Upon returning home he felt that every American, soldier and civilian, was a veteran
-Without the civilians the soldiers wouldn’t have had the supplies they needed
-He knew people who made war goods in their own homes just to contribute
-He lived with his wife in Chicago from 1945-1949
-During this time he travelled around the Midwest as part of his job
-His wife got sick of him being gone, so he eventually left that job
-They moved to Lansing, Michigan where he worked at various dairy plants near there
-Did that until 1957
-His final, and lasting, career was at Michigan State University
-He worked there for twenty two and a half years
-He was extension man in the dairy sector at MSU and in Detroit and Grand Rapids
-He thoroughly enjoyed his career that he had at MSU

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
All American Girls Professional Baseball League
Veterans History Project
Interviewee’s Name: Earlene Risinger
Length of Interview: (00:57:00)
Interviewed by: Frank Boring
Transcribed by: Joan Raymer August 19, 2008
Resides: Grand Rapids, MI Deceased: July 29, 2008
Interviewer: “If we can begin with your name and where and when were you
born?”
My name is Earlene V. Risinger and I was born in Hess, Oklahoma, which is hardly on
the map ever, on March 20, 1927.
Interviewer: “What were your parents’ occupations? Did you live on a farm?”
We just lived in the country and we worked for farmers, they did. I can remember way
back even, my mother and my dad lived in a big tent one time and they would pick cotton
and do anything to make a few bucks to feed their family. 1:18 I was the first born and
five or six years later I had my first brother and on down. I have three brothers.
Interviewer: “Three brothers and you. What was your early childhood like?”
Lonesome, and you didn’t know what you were going to do, but we made it up by
playing games, Annie Over and all that stuff at my grandfather’s place. It was just –you
just made your own—somebody asked me one time, “What did you do for fun down
there?” I said, “We drowned out crickets”. That’s the truth, there were big crickets and
we would fish with them. 2:02
Interviewer: “You eventually were in a house?”
Yes, we lived in a house. It seems like there were a lot of empty—they were really
shacks that we lived in. I can remember during the storm, you know the dust storms; you
would get up some mornings and have a half-inch of dirt on your stove and everything. It
wasn’t an easy time. 2:31
Interviewer: “Who were your neighbors, or were there neighbors around you?”
Oh yeah, they were maybe a quarter of a mile away. This was way out there and the
houses were spread out, but the town of Hess at that time had two grocery stores and two
service stations and things like that and nothing is there now. We live there now. I live
back there now with my niece. 3:00

1

�Interviewer: “When did you start school?”
When? When I was six years old.
Interviewer: “So it was like kindergarten?”
There was no kindergarten then. It was first grade.
Interviewer: “What was the school like?”
It was a big brick building and it went from first grade right through the twelfth grade.
Later on they closed the Hess school and Hess and Elmer, which is another little town
over there, consolidated and during the WPA years, because my dad worked on that
project, we got a new rock school. It was made out of rock. 3:43 That was when I was
in the seventh grade. I went to the Baptist church. That was one of the schools until the
school got finished and then in the eighth grade we had this wonderful school with good
teachers and the towns had consolidated.
Interviewer: “I see. We were talking earlier about recreation. Did you have chores
that you had to do when you were younger?”
Oh gosh yes, I had to go out and try to find kindling to make the old pot belly stove in the
morning. That was my job, to get the kindling so dad could start the fire in the morning.
4:28 Many times at my grandparents’ house—sometimes, you know they all lived sort of
together, we would eat corn and that was it for supper.
Interviewer: “Where did you buy your food?”
We would go by wagon mostly into Altus, which is thirteen miles away and you would
buy your stuff for a year, I don’t mean a year, but a month because that’s a long haul,
that’s a day up there and back in a wagon with two horses pulling. 5:02
Interviewer: “Who owned the horses?”
Oh, my grandpa.
Interviewer: “Your grandpa was actually a little better off than your folks were?”
Yes.
Interviewer: “Because you were family, you shared responsibilities and whatnot?”
Oh yes.
Interviewer: “What were some of the earlier games? You mentioned a couple
games, but when did baseball come into your life?”

2

�Oh, my dad played on a, what did they call it back then? A sandlot team and he and my
uncle and all of them played on Sunday afternoon. He was a first baseman and he had
me out throwing balls to him when I was six years old or five years old playing catch
with him. 5:39
Interviewer: “Did you have a glove?”
No, he had a glove, but I didn’t. My uncle Will finally bought me a glove; you know
they were not much bigger than my hand back then. He had a service station, so he
bought me my first ball glove.
Interviewer: “When your father was playing, I assume you went to church on
Sunday morning and then afterwards you had these baseball games?”
Yes, and that was up at the old schoolhouse.
Interviewer: “Where were these teams formed from?”
Just different—like Elmer would have a team and Hess would have a team and Tipton
would have a team and they would play each other. 6:18
Interviewer: “So, this was just basically recreational baseball, it wasn’t pro?”
Yes, families sitting up there in covered wagons and stuff like that.
Interviewer: “There were no benches?”
I don’t remember any. That was a long time ago when I was a kid.
Interviewer: “So, I know this is a long ways back, but what appealed to you about
baseball? What was it, when you were a child watching was it because your father
was playing?”
It was just something that I could do. Just something I could do and I had an uncle Doc
and he had two sons and they loved baseball too, in fact they went to college at OU on
scholarships because of their baseball. 7:01 Then there was Jack Shirley, a good friend
of mine and his dad saw me throwing a ball to somebody one time and then Jack and I
became good friends and we would get together and just play games. I would throw him
grounders and he would throw me grounders and then we would hit—just the two of us.
Interviewer: “Were you at all aware, I realize you were out in a very remote part of
the country, but were you at all aware of major league baseball from newspapers,
radio or anything like that?”

3

�Yea, we always had a radio, it had batteries, but we would run it at certain times. I
remember my dad hauling it out on the porch and plugging it in during the World Series.
7:45 Yes, we got to listen to that.
Interviewer: “So this is a whole group of you would gather around the radio and
listen to it and hear the roar of the crowds?”
Yep,
Interviewer: “Maybe this is where the seeds were planted.
Right.
Interviewer: “You’re tall, six foot one, how quickly did you grow when you were a
child? Did you sprout right up?”
I think so because my mother—people would see her carrying me around sometimes and
they would say, “Why are you carrying that long legged gal around?” I was all legs, and
I was only about six months old. 8:23 My dad was tall, but my mother was tall for a
woman too.
Interviewer: “When you watched your father playing baseball, did you ever think
that maybe you could play someday?”
No, I never did. Later on when I started in high school and I was warming up the catcher
or pitching batting practice for the boys or coaching first base, which I did a lot, I
thought, “I wish there was a girls team”. I’ll put this in, before when I was in the sixth
grade, I was going to school at Elmer, I was out playing with the Fancher boys and
people that I knew and we were just throwing high fly balls and stuff and then Mr. Boyer,
who was the superintendent at that time, he had a girls softball team. 9:25 He would let
me go, I couldn’t play, being in sixth grade, but he would let me go with him to play
other schools. He would put me out there, I don’t know why he did it, but he would bat
fungoes, high ones out there for me to catch. Then the highlight was, we would come
back through Altus on the bus and he would buy us a nickel ice cream cone. 9:58
Interviewer: “You did get through high school right?
Yes.
Interviewer: “Did you play during high school?”
Yeah.
Interviewer: “But not on a team per se.”
No. I just played with the boys and warmed up the pitcher and pitched batting practice.
Interviewer: “That’s what I want to get into. There was a boys team for the high
school?”

4

�Oh yes. They were the South Side Red Devils. 10:18
Interviewer: “You’re a girl, how did you get in that position?”
I just did it and they were happy to have me do that. The coaches didn’t mind.
Interviewer: “I assume that a lot of people that were on the team knew you
already?”
Yes.
Interviewer: “You were a tall person and you could throw the ball. I guess what’s
interesting to me—when I was in little league, there is no way we would let a girl,
even on first base or even coach so, you had to have gained the respect of the
students.”
Yes, and the guys who played. 10:54 Ya, they respected me and if they just had a little
pick-up team or something, I would always get chosen.
Interviewer: “So you were playing on boys teams that were not part of the high
school curriculum?”
Yeah, just for fun.
Interviewer: “What did you think you wanted to do after high school?”
I didn’t have any idea. I knew I wanted to do something, but I had no idea. There was no
money for college or anything. I knew that was out of bounds and I didn’t want to do it
anyway. I could have because I was the Salutatorian, but I just didn’t know. 11:33 I
was going to go to the navy to the WAVES, but my mother wouldn’t sign for me and it is
a good thing because I probably would have flunked out or gotten homesick or
something.
Interviewer: “The war began in 1941. Do you remember Pearl Harbor, do you
remember that at all?”
Oh yeah.
Interviewer: “Tell me about your experience?”
Well, we just heard it on the radio or somebody calling maybe, a few people had
telephones back then, but not too many around Hess had telephones. The old kind that
was on the wall. 12:09
Interviewer: “How old were you?”
Well, I was born in 1927.

5

�Interviewer: “So you were old enough to recognize that this was serious?”
Yes, I know that my two uncles got drafted and went to war.
Interviewer: “I know this was a long time ago, but did you have any grasp—did you
have any idea, you’re from a very small town and this is a world war, did you have
any idea of Germany and Japan, bombings and all this?”
No. I know that papers came through the school and you would have to give reports on
them so therefore, we did get a little bit. We picked it up that way. But I didn’t realize it
like people who had radios and stuff like that. 12:56
Interviewer: “Up to that time, what was the farthest you had traveled?”
Oklahoma City, which was 100 miles away. I had to go there to meet that girls team.
Interviewer: “Let’s back up, I don’t want to jump ahead too far. How did you hear
about this girls team?”
I went down to the grocery store, the lady down there would get the day late paper and I
was reading the sports. 13:28
Interviewer: “Why did you get a day late paper?”
Because that’s the way it went back then. In Oklahoma City you could buy it that day,
but then they had to mail it down. I read in the paper where this girls team was coming to
Oklahoma City to play a charity game against each other and I thought, “Oh brother”,
and then I got a postcard and I wrote it to the editor.
Interviewer: “Where did the postcard come from?”
We must have had a penny postcard. 14:00
Interviewer: “You got a postcard to sent to them?”
Yeah. I got the postcard, a penny postcard, sent it to the guy who had written the article,
and he sent it on to Chicago and it’s a miracle that I even heard about it, much less got to
go. That’s when I went up there and just—
Interviewer: “Wait a minute, there’s a lot more to this story than that, I know that.
Alright, you had the initiative to send a postcard to the guy who wrote the article,
what did you write on there?”
I just wrote, “How do I go about getting information about this league?”
Interviewer: “He just forwarded it on to them?”
Yeah.

6

�Interviewer: “Why did they contact you?” 14:43
Probably because they needed ball players. They needed ball players.
Interviewer: “So, how did you find out that they were asking you to come out? Did
a letter come?”
Yeah.
Interviewer: “So, now the letter arrives and you got to be excited about that.”
I am excited.
Interviewer: “You were at home with your parents?”
Yeah.
Interviewer: “Tell us about getting the letter.” 15:05
I just got the letter, was excited about it and filled it out and sent it back to them. I had
never played on any professional teams or anything, but anyway, I told them I threw
overhand and all that kind of stuff and so they said to go to Rockford, Illinois.
Interviewer: “What did your parents think about this idea?”
They were happy because they know I was unhappy doing nothing. 15:31
Interviewer: “Now, did this team offer money? Were you going to get paid for
this?”
Yeah. You had to go, and if you made the team they reimbursed you your money for
going, and if you made the team you would get sixty or seventy dollars a week. That was
a lot of money and I thought I was rich. 15:54 But, then I got to Chicago—I had to go to
the bank and borrow the money.
Interviewer: “I want to hear about that too—I found that very interesting.”
I went to the bank and Tom Thaggert, he was quite a sports guy and he was a big shot in
the bank, and he loaned me the money to go on.
Interviewer: “So, you actually sat there—you’re a young girl and you sat down
with one of the richest people in town, a banker, and told him that you had this offer
to go?”
He wanted me to go. 16:24 Then, I got to Chicago finally and went on a milk train as I
call it. I was so homesick and it took so long to get to Chicago, at least I thought, and I
turned around and I had enough money to come back home on so, then I had to go out
and pull cotton and make the money to pay Mr. Thaggert back. 16:50

7

�Interviewer: “How much did you earn pulling cotton?”
About fifty cents a hundred pounds. You had a twelve-foot sack around your shoulder
and you would empty it in the wagon and that’s what’s wrong with my back right now.
17:06 You would make maybe twelve fifty a week pulling cotton. That was seasonal,
but you had to do if you wanted a pair of shoes or—many a time I’ve worn a pair of
shoes with—you would cut out a cardboard and put in it.
Interviewer. “How long did it take to pay the bank back?”
Not to long. It wasn’t very much money back then to borrow and thing sere different.
Seventy-five bucks a week was a lot of dough back then.
Interviewer: “When you came back and had to pick all that cotton, what did you
feel like?”
I felt really let down and everything that I shouldn’t—but it was a miracle that I turned
around and came back and here’s why. They were pitching side arm and underhand and I
couldn’t do anything but pitch because I was a slow poke to China when it came to
running and I couldn’t have played any other position. 18:21 So it was a good idea that I
did turn around and come back because in 1948 then they sent me another letter and I got
to Springfield, Illinois and played for the “Springfield Sallies” that year.
Interviewer: “You could only throw overhand. You were not a very good batter or
runner so, in other words, if you went there in 1947 to try out?”
I probably wouldn’t have made the team. I would have been sent home. 18:51
Interviewer: “So, what was different about 1948?”
Well, I just wanted it and we were pitching overhand then and we had a chaperone and
Carson Bigbee was the manager and they just took me under their wing and that’s what
happened and I stayed.
Interviewer: “Well, let’s actually talk about that. You arrived there in Springfield
right?
Yes.
Interviewer: “This is a fairly good size town?”
Springfield, Illinois.
Interviewer: “Yeah, did you go by train or by bus?”
Bus, and in one day we made it from Oklahoma City. 19:34
Interviewer: “Who was there to greet you?”

8

�Nobody, I mean, they had a room for me. I went to the room and I was tired and sleepy
and I fell down and went to sleep on the bed and finally somebody came knocking at the
door and said it was time to go to the park. I went down and went out there and we got
dressed.
Interviewer: “Hold on, so you went down there and previous to this time you had
been playing in back lots and you had been playing in farm team type things. When
you first walk into the stadium, what was that like?”
Well, that was wonderful and then all these people standing around in their short skirts
and everything. They were very friendly and very nice and I was very shy back then, but
I got over that pretty fast. 20:25
Interviewer: “So, the uniform you’re talking about, what did the uniform consist
of?”
Just a thing you pull over your head and it come down here and you wore some kind of
shorts or something underneath it and you had socks that came up and everything like
that.
Interviewer: “Didn’t you have to physically tryout for that team?”
I guess not, I just started pitching because they needed pitchers. The sad part about that
was Springfield did not draw so, halfway through the season we were kind of on the bus
together all the time just finishing out the year and we were called a traveling team.
21:14
Interviewer: “So, you would get on a bus and you would go to another town and
you would play whatever team was there?”
Yes, and stay in the hotel. We lived in hotels.
Interviewer: “What was the early camaraderie like? These are all girls that were
baseball players. You played with boys before and now you’re actually with your
peers. How good were they?”
They were good. Most of them were good and if they weren’t, they weren’t there. That’s
the thrust of it. Some of them went home too, just like they would get hurt and not
return again and so on. 21:48
Interviewer: “You had been on a farm, you mentioned before how you lived mainly
in overalls, didn’t wear shorts or anything like that. What was your reaction to
these short little uniforms?”

9

�Well, I was embarrassed when I first had to go out and pitch in front of them, but you got
used to it because everybody else did too and so, it didn’t bother me after a few times.
22:17
Interviewer: “Your first few games, how did you feel about being out there actually
in a uniform, in a stadium, that’s a big jump?”
Kind of scary. Scary, and all I knew, I hadn’t had any training you know and
everything—this was in 1948. No training and I just threw the ball jut threw it and I
could throw it hard. 22:41
Somebody asked me once what my best pitch was and I said “high and tight”, but
anyway in the winter of 1949, we went on this Central South America tour and they
asked me to go and I accepted and that was another scary thing, getting on another train
somewhere in Texas and we went to New Orleans and then ended up in Guatemala
meeting a bunch of kids from Miami, a whole plane load from Miami. 23:21 Then we
all got together and they called them the “Cubanas” and the “Americanas”. I remember
pitching in the Panama Canal [Zone] and we stayed in a barracks there.
Interviewer: “Military barracks?”
Yes.
Interviewer: “What was your reaction to coming to a foreign country?”
Scary, everything was scary, but you know, the kids were so nice that they just took you
right in and so, there were three or four girls that were going to play and Johnny
Rawlings was our manager and he was an ex-baseball player, Johnny Rawlings, so was
Carson Biggby, they were all ex-players in the big leagues. He taught me more about
pitching than anybody else ever had. 24:32 I had gotten allocated to his team so
therefore, his kids that were playing for him took me in and everything worked out just
fine.
Interviewer: “These were women from all different teams and this was formed to
play in a foreign country?”
Yes.
Interviewer: “So, it wasn’t the “Peaches’ or it wasn’t—it was almost like an all star
team?”
Yes.
Interviewer: “So, he took the time to teach you how to pitch better, is that right?
So you were basically just throwing the ball across the plate?”
Yes, trying to.
Interviewer: “What did he teach you?”

10

�Well, when you got two strikes on them, waste a pitch or two, and things like that. I
never could throw a curve ball though, never, but my pitches would go in and dance in
like that and I don’t know what they call those now days, but they got a name now days.
25:29
Interviewer: “Did you feel like you were getting better as a pitcher because of
that?”
Yes.
Interviewer: “Your confidence rose. What about your batting?”
Oh, they always called on me to bunt mostly. Move them along.
Interviewer: “That’s exactly what they did with me.”
Yeah.
Interviewer: “You have long legs, you must have been a good runner?”
Heck no, heck no, one time I did get a hold of a ball and it hit out to the fence there in
Grand Haven and I was running around the bases and another time the accountant for our
league had his little boy there at a game in Grand Rapids here, and he looked at his daddy
and he said, “Why don’t she run daddy?” In the paper the next day it said, “Here she was
being staggered into third”. I was strictly a pitcher and that was it. 26:21
Interviewer: “Your experience in South America, did you have a chance to get out
to the city and look around?”
Oh yeah, poor countries, Managua, Nicaragua, and the Panama Canal and Guatemala and
all those.
Interviewer: “Now you say poor, but you were poor?”
Yeah, I mean, but their meat hung out on the street and you know, all that kind of stuff,
but it was a very good experience. We were invited to General Somoza’s big palace and
all that kind of stuff. 26:56
Interviewer: “Was there a lot of newspaper coverage? Were there newspaper
people around?”
Yes, I know, one time before I started playing, they went to Cuba for spring training and
they were very, very well received there.
Interviewer: “This is pre-Castro of course.”
Yes.

11

�Interviewer: “You mentioned that the original team you played with, they were not
drawing the audiences, so you were playing out on these traveling tours and then
you got the opportunity to go to South America, when that ended then where did
you go?”
I just came back home and went to spring training. 27:41
Interviewer: “Spring training for what?”
The Grand Rapids Chicks.
Interviewer: “Ah, you didn’t give us all that information. I know what the story is,
but you need to say it. So, John was impressed with you and he was in charge of?”
The Grand Rapids Chicks and the players that he had, if he wanted to trade them off or
whatever.
Interviewer: “So, with his experience with you in South America, he decided he
wanted you to be on his team?
”
Well, I was allocated there, but he could have passed up on me, or whatever he wanted to
do, but going to Central South America was a good thing for me because of meeting him
and some of the players. 28:15
Interviewer: “What were your thoughts about going to Grand Rapids, Michigan?”
I guess I liked it. I stayed and I made a lot of friends and a lot of friends that aren’t
baseball players too.
Interviewer: “Let’s talk about—you’re back—you did go home after the South
America trip, to Oklahoma?”
Yes, and then back into West Baden, Indiana, that’s where we were having spring
training and from there back to Grand Rapids and I got assigned a room mate, with
another pitcher. 28:50
Interviewer: “I want to get into more detail about this. Did you have contracts?”
Yes.
Interviewer: “So, you had a contract that specified that you would be playing for a
certain period of time and these are your responsibilities. Was it any different in
terms of what you had to do when you were the “Chicks” as opposed to the team
you were with before? Did the “Chicks” have a better facility? Did they have better
equipment?”

12

�No, but we had rules, strict rules that we had to abide by. We had to wear skirts all the
time and we couldn’t be seen in public in shorts or anything like that and always act like
a lady. Like somebody said, they wanted us to play like men, but act like ladies.
Interviewer: “You had mentioned earlier about a chaperone and I wonder if you
could explain in detail what was the chaperone for your team?”
Well, our chaperone was Dotty Hunter and she was wonderful. She didn’t really have
any trouble with her kids. After a game you would get two hours or something and you
had to be back in your room so, most of us respected her and we were back in our room,
but a lot of chaperones would do bed checks, but she never did, but a lot of them did and
that was their job to do because we weren’t supposed to be up carousing around. 30:20
Interviewer: “So, chaperones were officially part of the team and their
responsibilities included, making sure that you followed all the rules?”
All the rules and if you skinned your knee she put methyalate on it and stuff, which they
did, they had strawberries, the gals that would slide into base would get strawberries and
that was awful.
Interviewer: “You didn’t have to do that too often.”
No, I didn’t slide. I didn’t get to slide.
Interviewer: “Did you have to go through the charm school?”
No, that was only the first year. They had quit that by the time I came in. That was in
1943. 31:00
Interviewer: “Where did you stay in Grand Rapids?”
I stayed on Delaware Street. The chaperone would go around and talk to people and two
people would stay in one room and roomed with another pitcher and we could walk down
to the ballpark from Delaware Street. 31:26
Interviewer: “So, you were in people’s homes. You would rent out a room in a
home, somebody’s home, and you would share that room with a roommate?”
Yes, with another gal.
Interviewer: “What was your schedule like during the actual season?”
We usually played double headers on Sunday and you were lucky if you ever go a day
off. We did once in a while, or a rainout or something like that. 31:50
Interviewer: “You would get up in the morning?”

13

�Sometimes we would have to go to practice in the morning about 10:00 AM and then be
back there at 4:00 PM to get ready for the game.
Interviewer: “What did you do in the meantime? I mean, you went to practice and
then you would?”
Oh, we would eat lunch and just whatever. Some of them played golf, but I didn’t.
32:18
Interviewer: “You were making pretty good money, were you saving it or sending it
back home?”
Well, I would go up to Smitter’s store in The Heights and buy my three brothers some
short sleeve shirts and send them home to them and things like that because I knew how
desperate they were.
Interviewer: “So, you were in a sense making more than your parents were making
or your brothers were making?”
Yes.
Interviewer: “That must have made you feel pretty good?”
Well, in a way, but like one gal said one time, my dad was making thirty-five dollars a
week working for the telephone company and I was making three times that much. That’s
the way it was back then. 33:02
Interviewer: “What were your first experiences with the “Grand Rapids Chicks”
and did you feel like you were welcomed in by the—you’re a rookie right? How
were your first experiences with them?”
Fine, no problem at all, I just took my turn and we had five pitchers. I just took my turn.
Interviewer: “Being six foot one, I don’t think too many people would mess with
you anyway.”
I went to school with—I went to high school with my—she’s more like a sister to me and
she would be my grandfather’s kid, and the boys would pick on her and I would have to
whop them around once in a while. They were picking on her because she couldn’t take
care of herself. 34:00
Interviewer: “You said there were five pitchers on the “Grand Rapids Chicks”.”
Yes, or at least four. At least four.
Interviewer: “So, in a given week, how many games were you playing?”
Probably seven.

14

�Interviewer: “Seven games over the course of a week and some of those are double
headers so, you got Sunday off?”
No, Sunday was a double header. It wasn’t easy, but it was a good life—riding the bus,
you know when you ride a bus you get to—everybody gets along. 34:38 Sometimes
they pull jokes on you and all that, but you didn’t care about that.
Interviewer: “This is the team players on the bus?”
Yeah, they would play canasta and gin rummy and all that stuff, or singing and we had
good times. 34:54
Interviewer: “What was your first experience playing as a pitcher after you had
this training from Rawlings, did you notice a difference in the way you were
pitching?”
Yeah, but sometimes I would go wild as a goose and that would make him so mad. One
time he came out to me and he said, “Beans, if you can’t get the ball over, bounce the
damn thing in”. So, that’s the way it was. 35:30
Interviewer: “With four to five pitchers, though, how often would you actually be
able to pitch? Were you first string?”
Yeah, and then sometimes the next pitcher, if I got wild or something, they would put
them in. They didn’t have regular-- like they do now, you pitch six innings and a reliever
comes in, we didn’t have that. I pitched a twenty-one-inning game and a twenty-twoinning game and did it all so, that’s why I get a little upset with these primadonnas as I
call them. Give them one like that and they’d charge the mound, you know. 36:06
Interviewer: “You had several quite remarkable experiences playing in the
“Chicks”, but you started in 1948, 49, 1950. This was your regular job now right?
Uh huh.
Interviewer: “What was—the season itself lasted how long?”
I forgot, but it was in May and all the way to September and then you had the playoffs.
Interviewer: “What happened during the lull period?”
You mean after the season was over?
Interviewer: “Yes.”
Well, I used to go home, but then there was a Mr. Jordan, who was a—he had a Buick
place on South Division here and he just made a job for me in the wintertime. I started
doing that in 1952 I think it was or 1951. 37:06

15

�Interviewer: “What kind of a job was that?”
Oh, answering the phone or running around here, just gave me job and I made twentyseven or thirty dollars a week to tide you over until the season started again.
Interviewer: “Why didn’t you go back home?”
There was nothing to do, nothing to do.
Interviewer: “No work?”
No work, no nothing, I sure wasn’t going to go back to pulling cotton.
Interviewer: “What would you say was your highlight season?”
Probably when we were playing for the trophy against the “Kalamazoo Lassies” in
Kalamazoo. 37:47
Interviewer: “What year was this?”
1952 [actually 1953]. It was a cold night, the bases were loaded and the manager,
Woody English, had gotten kicked out of the game.
Interviewer: “How come?”
I don’t know, I said, “It’s because he got too cold”, but he had his long pants on out there,
and so they made it a seven inning game because of the weather and it was the last game
and the bases were loaded and Sammy Samms came to the bat and I struck her out and
we won the game so, that was my highlight of my whole deal. 38:30
Interviewer: “Sammy Samms was, I understand, a very good hitter and player?”
Yes, a very good player and a good hitter. She could pitch and she could play outfield
because of her hitting.
Interviewer: “So, when she came to bat with three people on?”
Marilyn Jenkins was my catcher and you’re going to interview her next week, she just
walked out to the mound and said—first before that, “Ziggy”, Alma Ziegler was the
captain of out team and she was the coach after he got kicked out. So, with the bases
loaded she walked up to me and looking up, she was little, she said, “Can you get her out
“Beans”? I shrugged my shoulders and she left me in, but I got her out anyway and that
was a good deal. 39:15 She was a wonderful person and she’s now deceased, Alma
Ziegler. She could pitch and play second base both.

16

�Interviewer: “The Grand Rapids Chicks was actually a very successful team. What
do you attribute to the success of the “Chicks” compared to some of the other teams
that didn’t do so well?”
Well, they tried to keep all the teams equal and they would trade someone off to make it
more better, but most of the time, thank goodness I never got traded off and I guess it was
because I was a pitcher and they were in demand. They busted up the team once and
Tiny Petry, who was a shortstop, and she was wonderful with “Ziggy” playing second
and then the team kind of went down a little bit then you know, but we won a lot of
games. 40:14
Interviewer: “You got to know these women quite well right? Where did they come
from?”
The come from California, they came from Canada, they came from Kansas, Florida, all
over.
Interviewer: “This was a nationwide search for ball players and then a lot of them
ended up in Grand Rapids, Michigan because it was a team.”
A lot of them stayed on here and a lot of them are deceased that played on our team for a
long time so, I feel lucky to be alive right now. 40:51
Interviewer: “1952, you had a wonderful year, how was 1953? How were the
crowds etc?”
Well, it had fallen off a little bit, but then it had started gaining back and even in 1954 we
were gaining back, but South Bend and some of the other teams weren’t drawing at all so,
the men just got together and decided that was the end of it. Like that—we heard about
it. 41:26
Interviewer: “What kind of crowds were you getting here in Grand Rapids at the
height of it all?”
Well, there would be a thousand people; there are pictures of the people in the stands. I
think it’s down at the library. They drew really well when I first came here.
Interviewer: “How were the crowds? Were they enthusiastic? You see major
league baseball and you see fans screaming and yelling.”
Oh, ya, cheering and carrying on. We got to playing later and later and there was this
writer, what was his name? I can’t remember, but he had a little article, a thing in the
paper, and he said, “Chicks were getting sleepy”, because they were keeping then up to
late at night. 42:15

17

�Interviewer: “Early on and this was in the movie and the movie was not that
accurate, but it had some good points to it and it was a wonderful film, but
especially early on, were you harassed at all by people, being women out there?”
What the movie showed in the beginning they were, but not when I came in 1948. That
had all calmed down because they knew that we could play the game and play it right.
42:50
Interviewer: “Did you ever get a chance to play—I think this happened on
occasion, but play exhibition games with the men’s teams?”
No, not to my knowledge, one time we might have, after the season was over, played a
game with the Sullivan’s or something once. Not very often.
Interviewer: “1953, you said things were going fairly well still, were there any
indications that this might come to an end?”
Well, I think there was, but I didn’t know it and most of the players didn’t know it. We
figured, like they said, we owed Grand Rapids, owed the cleaning people that cleaned our
uniforms money and I guess in the end we might have been getting paid in cash rather
than by check. Things were getting tight because TV came in and the war was over and
there wasn’t any gas rationing. 43:54
Interviewer: “Now, there was a real financial tragedy that happened in the 1950’s
where the equipment and everything was burned up.”
That was at Bigelow Field. I still say that guy who owned us then, more or less, Jim
whatever his name was, I still say that he probably had somebody set that building on fire
and the reason I say that is because of the fact that he immediately built a motel out there
and that was hard on us because we had to get a different uniform and that wasn’t hard to
do because it was back down to six teams and they had extra uniforms and stuff, but your
glove, everything was gone. 44:54
Interviewer: “Now, you say that you got uniforms from other teams, but you’re six
feet one.”
Well ya.
Interviewer: “How did you get a uniform to fit you? Did they actually have tailors
come out?”
Well no, we could get them hemmed or whatever they needed to be.
Interviewer: “In the past, when you were with the “Grand Rapids Chicks”, you had
your own uniforms and it was all color coded right? The hat, what about these new
uniforms?”

18

�Well, in the end, I think we had the “Peoria Redwings” uniforms and we wore red then
with white, whereas in the beginning we wore blue--- gray and then the blue sox and cap.
45:40
Interviewer: “You said there were indications that something might end, but you
didn’t know and most of the players didn’t know?”
We were hoping it wouldn’t, yes.
Interviewer: “In your case, did you actually think that this was going to go on for a
career?”
I think a lot of us did, yes. We were very disappointed. Especially the ones that came in
late like I did.
Interviewer: “How did you officially find out that the league was ending?”
I think it came out in the paper, but I’m not sure.
Interviewer: “Do you recall at all what your reaction was?”
I thought, “Oh well, I have to start thinking about doing something else?” Like I told
them out there before you got there, that I’d gotten hit on the elbow and had to go get an
x-ray and I thought hmm, that might be a good thing for me to get into, and so, Dr.
Blackburn was our doctor. and he said, “Oh yes, they have programs at the hospital and
we’ll get you in”, and that’s what I did then. I got to be an x-ray technician and I did that
from 1955 to 1969 and then I decided to work for orthopedic doctors and was the
manager of the office and took casts off and all that stuff and I worked with them until I
retired in 1991. 47:13
Interviewer: “When you were an x-ray technician, were people aware that you
were in the baseball league?”
Some were and some weren’t.
Interviewer: “I’m talking about the early days, I’m not talking about now because
now people know who you are, but in those days?”
Just the one’s who had attended, if they would come in and then they would say who we
were. We got a little publicity because Marilyn got into x-ray too after me and another
gal, Betty Wanless, and somehow I ran across a picture the other day where the three of
us were in our white uniforms. We got a little publicity back then even, but we didn’t get
a lot until we had our first reunion in 1982 and then-- 47:57
Interviewer: “How was that organized?”

19

�A bat girl from South Bend and then June Peppas had a printing shop and she was a
player for Kalamazoo and she got the idea of sending me a letter and do you know the
address of somebody else? And that’s the way it went and then they got it going. There
were a few people there, historians who came to that, and three years later we had another
one and so on and so forth and we’re still having them.
Interviewer: “Now in the movie it’s very moving when Geena Davis comes to the
reunion, and of course her sister is there with a family and all that. Was it sort of
like that?”
Yes, sort of like that the first time you see them and you have to look sometimes at there
tag to see who they were, ya. 48:51
Interviewer: “There were a few people from Grand Rapids that went, right?
Marilyn went and did Rosemary go?”
I don’t remember if she went, but I bet she did.
Interviewer: “I just wondered if the “Grand Rapids Chicks” gathered together and
the “Peaches” gathered together?”
We probably did after we got there. Dolly Konwinski went and all of them went, but we
didn’t stick together, we mixed and mingled with other people. 49:24
Interviewer: “That must have been an amazing experience, I’ve been to several
reunions of the Flying Tigers and I’ve been to reunions of other WWII groups and
it’s a magical moment to be standing there and just hearing these conversations.
“Do you remember when this happened?”
Yes, and as the years go by everything gets a little more, you know what it is—the stories
get bigger, yes the stories get bigger as you have these reunions. You daydream back and
then you think about so and so who’s not there because she’s deceased and we say she’s,
“gone to the dream team in the sky, the ball team in the sky”. It was a wonderful
experience for me and made me and made my life. 50:08
Interviewer: “I just want you to comment on the movie. The thing that impressed
me about it, I’m not looking at it as a historian at all because you heard from
Gordon Olson and others that it was a Hollywood movie, but it seemed to capture
the spirit, the excitement and of course the characters were just wonderful, what did
you think of the movie?”
Well, I thought it was about 89% correct. They made the chaperones look like they were
simpletons, I thought. They were all very educated and wonderful ladies and that was
one thing I didn’t like and of course the manager never came into our space. If he had
anything to say he would talk to the chaperone and she would relate it to us. So they
Hollywooded it up a little, which is all right and it put us on the map anyway. 51:15

20

�Interviewer: “Yes, that is what I was going to say, it certainly drew attention to
what you had done and made much more interest in what you had done.”
Like Penny Marshall said, she thought it was a story that should be told because—
another highlight I had was when we went to Evansville to see them film and after it was
over, she said, “Come down here, we want to play”, and I went down and pitched to her
and after working hard all day, she wanted to have a little fun and that was kind of nice.
51:47
Interviewer: “When did you see the movie? Did you just walk into a movie theater
or did they have a special screening for you?”
They had something at the Star Theater here and the fact is, somebody made me a collage
and I gave it to the library here about it and we signed autographs and everything before
the movie even started up at the Star Theater. 52:16
Interviewer: “Did you go to the public museum when they had their exhibit?”
Oh yes, and we signed autographs and everything there too. That was really quite an
exhibit, really, that will never happen again.
Interviewer: “I got to Grand Rapids just when that was ending, but a friend of
mine had a video camera and a crew and they actually videotaped the entire inside
and they interviewed a couple of people. I didn’t see you, you didn’t get interviewed
while you were there did you?”
I got a story written about me and they took pictures and I forgot, it was one of those—
she asked me, the gal that doesn’t work there anymore asked me if I—she said they might
not get it, they wanted, but they did and there was this booklet that came out, ya. I had to
come and I know about this a little bit because they had to take pictures you know to put
a picture in the magazine. I imagine they got one down at the library. 53:25
Interviewer: “We had students from the history department actually do all the
research and we know where all the pictures are and where everything is. At some
point I will have to go down there and take a look. I want you to make some
comments now in general. The beginning of the war, after Pearl Harbor, the United
States was not in a very good position, not just us, but the British and we were losing
all over, the Japanese were taking over Asia and Germany was taking over Europe
and as the story goes, Wrigley was concerned that perhaps major league baseball
would be affected by this so, he wanted to set up this alternative, this women’s team.
54:12 I guess the question I have for you and I want you to think a little bit outside,
did you and your players, did you have any sense or a feeling that you were a part of
the war effort? Because you know “Rosie the Riveter”, you hear about that and of
course we know about the WACS and the WAVES and it is my opinion that you did
a lot, what was your perspective?”

21

�Well, we feel that helped women get to play more sports etc. by us doing that because
when I first came to Grand Rapids and stayed in the wintertime, I said, “What do the girls
get to do in high school and around”? Well, they didn’t get to do anything and I feel now
that softball is so great now, that we were stepping stones for the younger generation.
People ask, “Do you think there will ever be another team like this”? I say, “No, it would
be too much money and also, I don’t think the gals of today would follow those rules and
regulations because they are too independent now. We feel like we made our mark in
that respect. 55:35
Interviewer: “Looking back on that experience, you had a successful career
afterwards, you were a professional and made a living for yourself and helped your
family out, how do you look back on that magic period of time and the effect it had
on your life?”
Well, all I just say is that it made my life and if I could do it anybody else could do it.
Interviewer: “One other final question, how do you think it affected you as a
person, how do you think it affected you as the person you are today? More
independent perhaps?”
Integrity, I get very emotional. 56:44
Interviewer: “This will be our last question. Your doing fine, your doing
wonderful.”
That’s why I can’t go and do speeches like a lot of them do because I get too emotional.
Interviewer: “We can stop now, we can stop now and thank you very much this has
been wonderful, wonderful.” 57:00

22

�23

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                  <text>The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League was started by Philip Wrigley, owner of the Chicago Cubs, during World War II to fill the void left by the departure of most of the best male baseball players for military service. Players were recruited from across the country, and the league was successful enough to be able to continue on after the war. The league had teams based in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan, and operated between 1943 and 1954. The 1954 season ended with only the Fort Wayne, South Bend, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Rockford teams remaining. The League gave over 600 women athletes the opportunity to play professional baseball. Many of the players went on to successful careers, and the league itself provided an important precedent for later efforts to promote women's sports.</text>
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                <text>Risinger, Earlene "Beans" (Interview transcript and video), 2009</text>
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                <text>Earlene "Beans" Risinger was born in Hess, Oklahoma, in 1927.  She grew up on a farm in Dust Bowl country, and played baseball from a young age with family and friends, and practiced with boys' teams in her community.  She saw a newspaper article about the All American Girls Professional Baseball League, and joined the Grand Rapids Chicks in 1948.  She went with the League to Spring Training in Cuba in 1948, and then on a postseason trip to Central America.  She was a talented pitcher, and pitched the final game when the Chicks won the League championship in 1953, and played until the League folded after the 1954 season.</text>
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                <text>Baseball</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="561909">
                <text>Sports for women</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="561910">
                <text>World War, 1939-1945</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="561911">
                <text>Baseball players--Michigan</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="561912">
                <text>Women</text>
              </elementText>
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          </element>
          <element elementId="44">
            <name>Language</name>
            <description>A language of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="561913">
                <text>eng</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="47">
            <name>Rights</name>
            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="561914">
                <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en"&gt;In Copyright&lt;/a&gt;</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="51">
            <name>Type</name>
            <description>The nature or genre of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="561915">
                <text>Moving Image</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="561916">
                <text>Text</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="46">
            <name>Relation</name>
            <description>A related resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="561921">
                <text>Veterans History Project (U.S.)</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="40">
            <name>Date</name>
            <description>A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="561922">
                <text>2009-09-26</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="48">
            <name>Source</name>
            <description>A related resource from which the described resource is derived</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="567085">
                <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484"&gt;All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-55)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="42">
            <name>Format</name>
            <description>The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="794560">
                <text>application/pdf</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="796631">
                <text>video/mp4</text>
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            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="45">
            <name>Publisher</name>
            <description>An entity responsible for making the resource available</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="1031740">
                <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives</text>
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            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
        </elementContainer>
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