824 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/73cb0cba68f78b8ee2b43176953eee93.jpg 5df58dedeb38addaf9d6708dddfb9406 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. S411 .R87 no.3 1912 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0191 Title A name given to the resource Farm and Garden Rule-Book Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stewart, Bertha (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of Farm and Garden Rule-Book, by L.H. Bailey, published by The Macmillan Company, 1912. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1912 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1ef3123f9eeb831bc0337292112ee393.jpg 357f7853b464c4d0684f47a11698ba97 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. PS1054.B3 T87 1913 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0428 Title A name given to the resource The Turning of Griggsby: Being a Story of Keeping up with Dan'l Webster Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stewart, Bertha (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of The Turning of Griggsby: Being a Story of Keeping up with Dan'l Webster, by Irving Bacheller, published by Harper & Brothers Publishers, 1913. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1913 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c21ceab2e76efe03f56852a41d8434a4.pdf bdc2e7231b2c2eab676702cb63d28b34 PDF Text Text CITY OF MUSKEGON MICHIGAN November 5, 1973 Mr. Richard Kaufman 740 Lake Drive North Muskegon, Michigan 49445 Dear Mr . Kaufman: I want very much to apologize for being unable to attend the 25th Anniversary Celebration of the Temple B'Nai Israel. In a somewhat bizarre situation I found myself with a wedding party of 28 persons at City Hall at 6: 15 P .M., waiting for the bride and groom who appeared at 7:30 P . M. The groom, if you will recall in my phone conversation with you , was al lowed to leave a dialysis machine keeping him alive at the University of Michigan , to come home for the ceremony . (We had to interrupt the ceremony so he could take a pain pi 11 . ) I won't bother you with more details except to say I hurried them as best I could but didn't get home to a wondering wife unti. l 8 P .M . , who, along with myself, would have felt too embarrassed to then drive down and arrive an hour and 15 minutes late. All I can say i.s that I am extremely sorry it happened. I am enclosing for your information a copy of the brief remarks I would have made on behalf of the City had everything worked out as expected. To that I can only add that i.f I can be of assistance at any other ti.me, in any way, please get i.n touch. I won't let something like that happen again. Very truly yours , EJS:DS �" REMARKS REGARDING B'NAI ISRAEL TEMPLE 25th ANNIVERSARY It is indeed a pleasure for my wife and myself to be here representing the City on this very special occasion. As a community we all stand proud of the commitment this Temple represents, and we stand indebted to those who had the foresight and fortitude to build this Temple and proclaim their faith in our community 25 years ago. Not only did those leaders of 25 years ago build this Temple, they helped build a community. Today many of them are still helping and providing their leadership in that capacity. I would only add to that by stating that, 25 years hence, should those of us who are here tonight be fortunate enough to again gather to observe and celebrate 50 years of commitment, we would agai.n find Leo out in front, and we would again stand proud of the leadership that not only proclaimed their faith and built this Temple, but went on to build a better community for all . Tonight we may all stand proud of those leaders. Thank you. Edward J. Stewart, Mayor 11/3/73 �25TH ANNIVERSARY SABBATH RESPONSIVE READilU Leader; Cong: I rejoiced when they said unto me; Let us go into the house of the Lord. Lord, I love the habitation of Tey house, And the place where Thy glory dwelleth. I love Thee, 0 Lord., 'I!J3 strength, My shield and my hom of salvation., my high tower. One thing have I asked of the Lord; That will I see after: That I may dwell :in the house of the Lord All the days of my life. To behold the graciousness of the lord. And to visit ear l;r :in His Temple. 0 Lord, my God. 1 I will give thanks unto thee forever. I will sing, Yea., I will s:Lng praises unto tm Lord. We have meditated on Thy lovingkindness, 0 Lord, In the courts of the Temple. I will fill this house with My glory, And in this place will I give peace. I will now say; Peace be within Thee, Peace be within Thy walls. For the sake of the House of the Lord, our God. 1 I will seek T}v good. Blessed be the Lord, God of Israel From everlasting to everlasting Amen. Barechu. Et Adonai Ha-M 1Vorach Praise Ye the Lord to whom all praise is due. Baruch Adona 1 Ha-M'Vorach L'olam Vo-ed Praised be the Lord., to whom all praise is due forever and ever. �, THE PLEOOE Leader: Cong: And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, God of their fathers with all their heart, and with all their soul.. In like manner are we gathered to renew our covenant as a Congregation in Israel. What camnon experience leads us into spiritual fellowship with God and one another? Acknowledging the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as our God, we have established this Congregation as the Symbol and Center of our corporate life as Jews. Even as God ma.de His covenant first with Abraham, so do we invoke His divine aid in this enterprise,. undertaken in His name. By what pledge do we seal this covenant? By the same pledge as did our foretathers at Sinai., making our children surety for the sincerity of our hearts and minds. We are organized to insure that they shall find here a well from 'Which they may draw inspiration for their daily life. Wha.t are some of the privileges and duties in this, our Congregation? With this aim, we engage to strive together for the advancement of our body in knowledge of our God and of His Holy Tarah; to transmit such understanding as we gain to those who sba.11 later join our ranks; to sustain the ordinances and comnandments, disciplines and doctrines of Historical Judaism and to worship God after the dictates of our Rabbis and sages. What duties do we gladly undertake as stewards of that mich God has entrusted to us? To contribute cheerfully and regularly to the support of the synagogue edifice which houses our Congregation, and to maintain its devotional, educational, and recreational facilities as God will give us the strength and means to establish them. For the sake of our home and loved ones, what tasks do we prayerfully assume? We undertake to naintain regular hours of service; to edueate our children in the religious way of life; to seek the good of all whom our influence shall reach; to maintain the bands of union with the whole household of Israel; to ask after the peace of Jerusalem by ll!IOrking for the upbuilding of Zion. For the sake of our brethren who· are scattered all over the world# how shall we govern om-selves? We agree to rem.ember that we are part of a greater Corgregation of Israel and therefore we will recognize in deed as well as ll!IOrd, the principle that all Jews are responsible for each other. We wil.l remember each other in prayer; aid each other in siclmess and distress, and practice the ancient Mitzvah of relief and rehabilitation. We Pray that the God of our fathers keep us steadfast in this detennination and bless the work of our hands. Amen. (Congregation and Reader) Hear, 0 Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is One. Praised be His name whose glorious kingdom is forever and ever. �Leader: • Cong: Thus saith the Lord; the heaven is My throne, and the earth is My toot stool • What manner of house will ye build Me, and 'What shall be My rest? for all tbsse things hath My hand made. But to those men will I look, even to them that are poor, and of a contrite spirit, and that tranble at My l'm"d. We have surely built thee a house of habitation, a place for Thee to dwell in forever. Almighty God, to whom all hearts are open, mo lmoweth the strong am tender ties that bind us, and who understandeth the fair menories and the stirring hopes that make us one, look upon us in canpa.ssion as, with united hearts and undivided purpose, we consecrate ourselves anew to thee and Thy service. We, the people of this Congregation, do now dedicate ourselves anew to the l-A'.>rship of God in this place, so that we may help establish His kingdom on earth. For many years of fellowship with each other, for the courage which has made burdens easier to bear., for the patience which has led us through the valleys of fear and across the mountains of despair; For many years made precious by sharing common burdens., enduring common sorrows., completing common tasks and triumphing in common purposes; For many years of coming week by week to renew our friendship with God and our fellows, for hopes renewed., for hearts encouraged., for sins forgiven, for burdens lightened, for problems solved, and for visions of eternal values; We give thanks unto thee for Thou art the Lord, our God., and the God of our fathers forever and ever. In loving manory of all those whose hearts and hands have served this sanctuary; with deep grat1tude for loyal comrades in this spiritual adventure; We dedicate this solemn hour in gratefulness to Thee, for Olll' lives which are canmitted into Thy hand and for our souls which are in Thy keeping. Let us then continue our tasks as we echo the words of the prophet speaking in Thy name; I will remember Thee a.Di the affection of Thy youth I remanber my covenant with Thee, and will establish for Thee an Nerlasting covenant. Who is like unto Thee, O Lord, among the mighty? Who is like unto Thee, Glorious in Holiness, Awe-inspiring., \oJOrking -wonders? Thy children acknowledged Thy sovereign power and exclaimed: The Lord shall reign forever and ever. SIIENT DEVOTION We call unto Thee., 0 Lord, out of the wordless places of our being. There are thoughts too deep for words; yearning too great for the lips to frame. But Thou knowest our thoughts before we utter them, and the yearning of our innermost self is not hidden frcm thee. May our thoughts soar unto the heights where Thy greatness dwells; ~ our yearning find fulfillment in the work of our hands. In the silence of our heart, we pray, 0 God, that Thou strengthen us by the memory of dear ones.. Let their lives continue through us, and their work find completion in our own. Thus the generations w.il1 be linked in love and in reverence; and the grandeur of man will become clearer in our sight. For those 'Who made this, our Temple, strong., -we thank Thee. For those who labor to keep it wortey of Thee., we express our gratitude. Blessed a.rt Thou O Lord, the Guardian of the hope and the Keeper of the Dream. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Temple B'nai Israel Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Temple B'nai Israel (Muskegon, Mich.) Description An account of the resource Collection of photographs, scrapbooks, programs, minutes, and other records of the Temple B'nai Israel in Muskegon, Michigan. The collection was created as part of the L'dor V'dor project directed by Dr. Marilyn Preston, and was supported by grants from the Kutsche Office of Local History and Michigan Humanities Council. Original materials were digitized by the University Libraries and returned to the synagogue. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital objects were contributed by Temple B'nai Israel as part of the L'dor V'dor project. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Jews--United States Muskegon (Mich.) Scrapbooks Synagogues Women--Societies and clubs Minutes (Records) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Preston, Marilyn Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Relation A related resource L'dor V'dor (project) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-08 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Text Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Circa 1920s-2018 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-08_BI-25thAnniversary_1973 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stewart, Edward J. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1973-11-05 Title A name given to the resource Mayor's remaks for the 25th Anniversary Celebration of the Temple B'nai Israel Description An account of the resource Letter with enclosed remarks from Edward J. Stewart, Mayor of Muskegon, Michigan to Mr. Richard Kaufman of Temple B'nai Israel regarding his absence from the 25th Anniversary Celebration and his intended remarks for the event. Subject The topic of the resource Jews--United States Muskegon (Mich.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file contributed by the B'nai Israel Temple as part of the L'dor V'dor project. Relation A related resource L'dor V'dor (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e891f838e0489772a6f2abdb7764526f.mp4 97b02752fe06ab348515d52d36f4d663 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2d95c650c8e22f52f95091ffe5679db6.pdf 7653fcf5a5cb9f30c262e31b1249209a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Jack Stoepker World War II-Postwar (00:00:10) Early Life -Born on February 7, 1928 in Holland, Michigan -Moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan when he was two years old -Has lived in Grand Rapids ever since -His father was a salesman for a Holland business -Once in Grand Rapids he became a staff manager for Prudential Life Insurance -He was regularly employed during the Great Depression -Family managed to stay in the “upper middle class” during the Great Depression (00:01:05) Start of the War and Following the War -He was in middle school when Pearl Harbor was attacked -Remembers hearing President Roosevelt’s “Day of Infamy” speech -His father became a Civil Defense patrolman -Patrolled the city streets at night looking for any signs of unrest -Nothing ever happened though; the city was calm and uneventful -Remembers products like gas, coffee, and sugar being rationed -In high school they would pray for the servicemen, especially the ones they knew (00:03:06) Enlisting in the Army -He was in his last year of high school and began to take college classes at Calvin College -He and his friends began to talk about service -On the afternoon of graduation rehearsal he and his friends went to the recruiting office -Did this unbeknownst to their parents -When his parents found out they were upset -He enlisted in the Army with the hopes that he’d wind up doing something with dentistry -In college he had begun the pre-dental courses (00:05:55) Reporting for Duty -He reported for duty in summer 1946 -He took a bus from Grand Rapids to Detroit then another bus to Fort Knox, Kentucky -Basic training was a shock for him -Complied with the orders and discipline and adjusted (00:07:10) Transfer to Dental Clinic -During a basic training exercise he twisted his knee -He was sent to Valley Forge General Hospital -A military hospital in Phoenixville, Pennsylvania -The second floor dealt with dentistry, specifically for facial reconstruction -He never went back to basic training -During his recovery he got acquainted with the colonel in the dental clinic -This led to him getting transferred to the dental clinic at Valley Forge General Hospital -His recuperation took a lifetime -But the initial stage took about a month -The surgeons did well with what they had available to them �(00:11:36) Working as a Dentist’s Assistant -He assisted dentists by: -Assisting dentists with routine dental work -Making sure dentists had sterile instruments -Kept records of patients -He mixed fillings -Also helped with the creation of prosthetic jaws for wounded servicemen -He helped get the records organized -Helped dentists with the creation of new jaws -Did this by working with the dentists and the laboratory in the dental clinic -Made sure that patients were matched up with dentists that could best help them -He received no formal training, everything he did he learned how to do hands on -He did some basic business management in high school through his church -Helped him when he organized the records -There were originally six dentists in the clinic, and then it was reduced to four -This was because the frequency of men with severe facial wounds was decreasing (00:15:43) Working with Patients -Dentists and doctors at the hospital worked together to rebuild jaws -Creating artificial jaw bones, gums, and teeth for each wounded man -Then teaching them how to use their jaws again -About half of the patients also had brain damage -Needed to have an escort wherever they went -There was one patient that needed to be escorted to Little Rock, Arkansas -Jack was the man’s escort and personally took him there -The problem was that the man was incapable of making his own decisions -Delivered him to the VA Hospital then took a train back to Pennsylvania (00:19:21) Living Conditions -The living conditions were crude, but sufficient -He and the other medical staff lived in a barracks behind the hospital -It was cold in the winter, and snow got in, but they kept warm with a stove -Accepted the conditions for what they were -Lived with twenty-twenty five other men -There was a section of the barracks meant for getting fed -The hospital cook fed the patients and the staff (00:20:51) Visiting Philadelphia -While stationed at the hospital he also got to see Philadelphia -Did this because of the work he had to do with patients -Needed to help the patients get used to people staring at them because of being disfigured -They looked different, even after surgery, and had to psychologically adjust to that -Took them to football games and other social events where there were a lot of people -Took the patients to Philadelphia on the weekend -Took the patients around the city to see the sights -Some were able to walk, but others were bound to a wheelchair (00:22:30) Big Bands -Big bands that were touring in the area would come to hospital to play for the patients -There was a little stage on the front lawn so the patients would get wheeled out there �-He remembers when Xavier Cugat and his band came to play at the hospital -Xavier led the band while he would go out and meet the patients (00:24:20) End of Service -He spent the entirety of his military career, except for Fort Knox, at the hospital -He had signed up for an eighteen month enlistment instead of a two year one -This places his discharge date as sometime in late 1947/early 1948 -There were attempts to encourage him to stay in -He was a T4 (technical sergeant) at the time -Told that if he stayed in he would be promoted to master sergeant -He was ready to get out of the Army and go to college when the time came though (00:25:14) Life after the War -He returned to college on the GI Bill -Did the first two years of pre-dental work -Changed degrees after the final dentistry course because he stopped enjoying it -Changed his major to business -Civilian dentistry was far more routine and boring than military dentistry -Prior to graduation he was offered a job offer to be a business manager and took that job -National Union of Christian Schools (later known as Christian Schools International) -Wound up being able to work one job for about a decade, then move on to a new job -Home was always Grand Rapids, but he worked around the country -California, Kentucky, Indiana, and Michigan’s Upper Peninsula -He wanted movement in his life and was fortunate enough to get it (00:28:06) Reflections on Service -He doesn’t stare at disfigured people even today -His time in the Army taught him that they are people with feelings -After a while you stopped seeing them as just a body, but as a person � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_StoepkerJ1745V Title A name given to the resource Stoepker, Jack (Interview outline and video), 2015 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-04-16 Description An account of the resource Jack Stoepker was born in 1928 in Holland, Michigan, and grew up in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He served as an air raid warden during World War II, and enlisted in the Army in summer 1946. While training at Fort Knox, Kentucky, he injured a knee and was sent to Valley Forge General Hospital, Pennsylvania and during recovery there was transferred to the dental clinic at the hospital to work as a dentist's assistant. He specifically aided patients that had suffered severe facial trauma during the war and needed reconstructive surgery as well as physical and psychological rehabilitation. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stoepker, Jack Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/94c0172723c225250bbd22642033c5dd.mp4 9aec586c8aeb7745c8a7826a96beed29 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/03bf7d8bb747837a8d426a1fcd26902e.pdf 93b59f7454c91957bd4c4d724ba6fc2b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Mike Stolk (1:05:47) (:22)Early Life • (:22) He was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1920. He went to Union High school in Grand Rapids. • (:29) His father owned a business, making semi-trailers. He built trucks of all sizes, including the 35-foot trucks. Mike worked at the business until he joined the service. Originally his father had a shop on Leonard Street making various types of clamps for the furniture industry. One day, a milkman asked him to make some parts for his milk truck. His father decided to change his business into making trailers. They moved the shop to Front Avenue. • (2:16) At the time, he hated history and flunked it in high school. His mother warned him not to buy a used car, or a new suit because he would soon be drafted but he didn’t listen. He did not heed his mother’s warnings. (3:19) Enlistment/Training • (3:06) He was drafted; he received a 1-A card in the mail. He took the physical at the armory in Grand Rapids, and thought he would fail it. He passed it “with flying colors.” • (3:30) He was sent to Fort Custer, in Battle Creek, Michigan for the “official physical.” The men were put in a line with two medics and inoculated speedily. Some of the men were so concerned about the needles that they fainted. • (4:17) Next he was sent to Fort Sill, Oklahoma for Basic Training. He was put in the Field Artillery Replacement Training Center. It was an artillery school set up before the war even really began. • (4:56) In civilian life, he had been on a horse once, and fell off it. They used horses at Fort Sill frequently, mostly to transport the guns. Some of the men were afraid of the horses since they were such large animals. The horses were used to pull equipment. • (5:22) The horses didn’t really bother him that much, once the sergeant told him how to handle them. Some of the other men tried to bribe the horses into good behavior with apples they saved from breakfast. The ploy did not help. • (6:07) Walking with the horses wasn’t so bad, nor was trotting. Galloping was the major problem, mostly because the helmets they wore would hit them in the face from the movement. Many of them had cut noses after awhile. They used old helmets, and old equipment generally. Most of it came from WWI, and had to be cleaned off and otherwise repaired. • (7:15) He missed his girlfriend more than anything else. • (7:33) He continued basic training at Fort Sill. Mostly he learned marching, which some of the men had problems with because they didn’t know the difference between left and right. They had a hard time with rear-marching, and oblique marching. �• (8:19) He had a pass while in New York on his way to being shipped overseas, and went to the Empire State Building. Soldiers were generally well-liked, and he the elevator operator showed him the interior the building’s superstructure. He wanted to see the top, but was not allowed since it was restricted at the time. He was given a rain check, which he still has as a souvenir. From time to time he thinks about cashing it in, but isn’t sure if it would be honored. • (9:25) He had athlete’s foot very badly for a while, and annoyed his bunkmates by rubbing his feet together and shaking the bed. (10:23) Deployed/England • (10:23) On the ship, he saw the S.S. America sign one night. He was not supposed to be on that part of the ship, and did not return to it. • (11:02) From then on, on the ship, he stayed in his bunk being sick and eating saltine crackers. Fortunately the sergeant was also horribly seasick and did not give many orders. • (11:28) The ship was in a convoy, which was escorted by the Navy. One night, he smoked a cigarette, which was not a good idea at night. The smell, and the glow could alert the enemy. He was very lucky to only do it once. • (12:30) One of his friends went into the woods while in Europe and came back with eight surrendered Germans, and he got a Luger—his first pistol. • (13:23) They landed in England, and set up the equipment. He had to tighten the screws on the trucks after assembling them. They went to Wales to train and testfire the guns. • (14:25) They had landed in Liverpool, which was a nice town. They slept in Quonset huts. The officers stayed in some local homes. • (14:46) They ate large quantities of orange marmalade, which attracted hornets. One of the men accidentally ate a hornet and was stung on the tongue. • (15:03) The officers ate better than the men. Many of the officers had English girlfriends, even the married ones. • (15:55) He was twenty-one at this time, they had men of all ages. One of the men was about forty, and he was in the radio section. They all thought that he was old at the time. That man nearly died from exhaust fumes at one point. Later he got very drunk when his older brother sent him whiskey in a can of grapefruit juice. • (17:00) The base was somewhere in the English countryside. He went to London on furlough, after the war. He wanted to go to the Netherlands, since he had family there, but he was not allowed to since the Netherlands were very impoverished at the time. He had been pen pals with Ott, a Dutch boy until he came back after the war and was unable to “sponsor” him, and they ended their friendship. His sister sponsored a cousin of theirs once. The cousin, Neil, got a job at a tool and die and bought a big Buick. • (19:02) He was in England until 1944. He did not see the German bombings of England. He also didn’t see much of other American outfits. (31:36) Active Duty in Continental Europe • (19:39) His unit was sent to France June 12th. It rained horribly their first night, and the next day was sunny. �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • (20:02) They were sent over the Channel with black soldiers. The men were very scared. The first day in France they found a dead German, who they initially thought was black because he had changed color in the sun. (20:51) The Americans often collected souvenirs. (21:00) France was very hot and dusty. They landed at Utah Beach, probably. After landing, they killed many of the German horses and the French ate some of them. While in France, he ate horse and found it to be tough, but otherwise good. (22:12) They were in a truck convoy. He was constantly afraid of being shelled when they stopped, especially at intersections or high ground or open country. He was the driver of the truck. (22:34) One night, while he was on guard he could hear shells at night. The first man they lost was the colonel, when his jeep went over a mine. The drivers kept sandbags in their jeeps to try to absorb the shock from mines, but the bags in that jeep had been removed after getting wet and freezing. The colonel might have survived if the sandbags had been in place. He was killed at night, and the next morning he was found, with his wallet and watch missing, probably stolen by his own men. (24:25) They had 105’s, they had been trained on the French 75. (25:02) His unit was frequently in action, but he was free once the surveying was finished. After awhile his superiors noticed this, and put him on artillery observation during combat. He saw dead men frequently, and it was very disturbing, especially when they had had photographs of their family on their person. (26:19) He stayed with the infantrymen, who were staying in a captured German log cabin. One of the men very casually put his gun on the top of the shack. (27:09) They usually were out for a day at a time. They usually stayed in the area for a few days. (27:28) The Americans frequently used church steeples to see the land better. As a result, the churches were favorite targets of the Germans. The captain and the corporal were killed in a church because of a German shell. The corporal had been in C battery with him. (28:13) His battalion was usually in Patton’s Army. (28:59) His unit did not stay in Normandy very long, they were soon in Belgium. They moved frequently while in Normandy. (29:30) Once, after dinner, a corporal came in to camp and a shell nearly hit him. He was unharmed, but very badly scared. Enemy mortars often came down near street intersections, and military policemen were often hurt. The military policemen directed traffic since they didn’t trust the signs as the Germans frequently changed them. Being a medic was also dangerous; the Germans did not respect the rules of war and shot them. (31:00) Some of the men made a makeshift fire with their pup tents underneath an unfinished building. They made a fire and nearly died from the fumes. (31:30) His group stayed together for about two or three years. (31:52) He got into Belgium later. He thought France was very “dirty,” and easily perceived the difference between the Belgians and the French. He spoke �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • German, after taking classes in high school, which helped. He helped patch over relations with a German family called Miller once when a corporal tried to seduce their daughter and accidentally set their curtains on fire. The corporal was demoted to private afterward, and assigned to “hard labor,” which at the time was KP duty. Mike talked to the family, and was given a basket of eggs, and a handmade Nazi flag as thanks. (34:50) The war moved quickly. They were at one point pulled off to help supply Patton’s Army. Sometimes the truck drivers ran out of gas. (35:31) He went to town daily to get supplies. Later in life, he travelled the same route with his wife and showed her where he had waved at a French woman each day. (36:09) The usual quartermaster did not supply them since they were away. One day, a cat got into the supplies and ate a substantial amount of raw beef. (36:49) The war continued to accelerate, and they went into Paris soon. (37:14) One of his friends, Rose, traded a carton of cigarettes to a Frenchman for a bottle of wine. When he opened it, it was full of water. He saved up his cigarette boxes for the rest of the war and traded a carton full of cardboard to a Frenchmen for a bottle of wine. (38:11) His unit was soon pulled out of the reserve, and officers were periodically sent to the front. (38:40) The officers stayed in houses, and sometimes they evacuated people to use their houses. One woman got angry with them and broke all her wine bottles. (39:15) He spoke German very well, and also spoke Dutch at home because his grandfather did not speak English. He was able to read signs in Belgium, which were in Flemish. He was glad to see Europe. (39:49) They met the Russians in Czechoslovakia. He “captured” a German Air Corps wristwatch, but later he found out it was a fraud when he tried to sell it. (40:46) The worst part of the war for him was in the Hurtgen Forest. It was dreadfully cold, and they were outdoors twenty-four hours a day. They stayed there for some time. Some of the men had never seen snow before. They pulled snow down off a tree onto Cavassa as a prank. (41:27) They were in Hurtgen Forest from the fall through the winter. (41:44) He spent some time in a pillbox, and felt very safe with the eight-foot thick walls. He stayed in the room where the food was kept, and his sleeping bag had just enough room. They took the headlights off a truck for a light source. He took a souvenir by taking the manufacturer’s plaque off of the door. (44:28) During this period they came across the German prisoners. He felt sorry for them a little. (45:22) They got lots of supplies from the men in the field. He usually traded his chocolate rations for his friends’ cigarettes rations, since his friends did not smoke. They sometimes traded cigarettes with civilians for eggs, and used a gas stove to fry eggs. He took an ammunition box to use to store his stationery. (46:41) At night, they drove with the windshields down to prevent glare. That made it even colder. �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • (47:30 They crossed the Rhine at some point. The engineers had to build a bridge over the huge river, which was dangerous because of enemy fire. They commandeered a fire truck to wash their trucks with water from the Rhine. He came back to the area later with his wife, and they saw a hotel that he had seen in the war. (49:41) If he had to live in Europe, he would live in Germany. He did not hate the Germans, it was the Nazis who were the problem. (50:17) They met a German woman who told them she hated the Nazis, and had never saluted them. They didn’t believe her and went through her things and found a picture of her saluting, so he “liberated” her radio and gave it to a Czech man. (50:32) They built two log cabins in the Hurtgen forest, and had to be careful not to take trees from any one area, which would make them obvious to the Germans aerial reconnaissance. They also used the wood from the ammunition crates. They built bunks and the roof out of pine-wood and lived relatively comfortably. (52:25) In fall it was rainy, and messy. The trucks got stuck in the mud, and they had to move them back and forth all night to prevent them freezing in the mud. While doing this one night, he broke the drive shaft on the truck. (53:03) The forest was very, very cold. He felt that the people could sense that he spoke German sometimes. The Germans would ask them how long they would say, and he never told them. He played Dutch songs on a piano. (53:52) He got a bottle of schnapps from a man. Once they got into Czechoslovakia, and they learned quickly not to pursue the girls. One of the troops killed a rabbit, and a local woman made sauerkraut for dinner. She fixed his buttons with horsehair thread. (55:07) They came across a factory that had liquid soap. He later gave it to a woman as a kind of rent payment and she was ecstatic. They stayed at a spa later as well. (55:48) They ordered items through the stock exchange. He ordered shampoo and gave it away to a local girl, Annelisa. He liked the German children because they spoke slower. She said “my mumma says you’re an angel.” She was raised a Nazi because her father was a Capitan in the German Army. (56:38) He got some items from a German woman, Klaus Frisch’s mother. He had many nice experiences in Europe. (57:04) The Russians didn’t speak very good German. They didn’t interact with the Russians very much, and spent most of the time with the Czech civilians. The Czechs didn’t like the Russians, and kept asking them when they would fight the Russians. (58:07) They ended up in Kanitze later. They met a young girl who wrote him letters in German. He continued to get letters once back in the States in 1946. “They were nice people.” (59:15) Next the trucks were put in a motor pool. They had limousines they had commandeered. Many of the men took cars and didn’t know how to care for the German cars and ruined them. (1:00:05) The trucks had to be gathered. The Army of Occupation needed the vehicles. �• (1:00:34) The rations came in round, tin cans that could ruin the truck tires. Flat tires were very bad. • (1:01:11) He often wondered later how he survived the winter. (1:01:41) Return to the States • (1:01:41) He came back to the States in November. He had earned enough points, in part because of his service and in part because of his time spent I the service. The camps were named after cigarette companies. • (1:02:40) They were told they would be sent home on a certain day, but then something would come up. • (1:03:10) They landed in New York on Armistice Day. The tugboats all whistled at them. The Red Cross handed out doughnuts. He didn’t call home because of the long lines for the telephone. He told himself the entire war he would kiss the ground, but decided not to after seeing a man get sick from drinking. • (1:04:21) His brother was from Pennsylvania and wrote him to get any dental work he needed before leaving the service. He married in1946. • (1:05:05) He worked at the Post Office, delivering mail on the West Side of Grand Rapids. His brother-in-law lived in the area so he visited them on his route. He later worked at a plating company plating car parts and making racks. He did not like the job. He earned a dollar an hour as a carpenter, and so did Peggy, at the time it was a lot of money. • (1:06:33) He made about twenty dollars an hour when he retired. He thinks the military taught him to appreciate life more, and to be more empathetic. He thinks he “has been blessed.” They had four children, two boys, and two girls. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context StolkM Title A name given to the resource Stolk, Mike (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stolk, Mike Description An account of the resource Mike Stolk was born in 1920, in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He was drafted in 1942, and trained at Fort Sill as an artillerist. His main job was to site guns and check their ranges. His unit went to England in 1942 and served in France, Belgium, Germany and Czechoslovakia. He discusses his experiences in the Hurtgen Forest, and occupation duty in Germany and Czechoslovakia. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-11-12 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a78ec3351eb40e46046ccdfcdf22360d.mp4 50959e73338d8f6c05bda2df8514dfdc https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f721bdb90e0855ad829e04c17796a9e4.pdf 67385e713b419bcf20a39cd10c723aec PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Peggy Stolk Length of Interview: 23:54 (00:09) JS: We‟re talking today with Mrs. Peggy Stolk of Grand Rapids, Michigan. The interviewer is James Smither or Grand Valley State University. Mrs. Stolk, can you start by telling us a little bit of your own background. For instance, where were you born? PS: I was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan and we lived here until I was about four years, and then we moved to Bay City. JS: And why did you go there? PS: Because my dad got a job there. JS: What kind of work was he doing at that point? PS: He was…furniture, he was in the furniture business. And I started school there, and we lived there until I was about 9 or 10, and then we moved back to Grand Rapids. And then I went to West Leonard school, through the sixth grade. And then I went to Harrison Park through the ninth grade. And then I went to Union and I graduated from there. JS: Okay. And what year did you graduate from high school? PS: 1942. (01:07) JS: Now you‟re growing up in kind of the depression era there in the „30s. How well or poorly was your family doing at that point? PS: Well, my family didn‟t suffer at all through the Depression. My dad had a job the whole time and we had it good. JS: Did he have a skilled enough job, or whatever he was doing, designing or whatever, that it paid decently… PS: Yeah. JS: He could do pretty well. Did you have a car in those days? PS: Yeah. We had a car. �(01:43) JS: Now as it got to be 1939 and 1940 and ‟41, so before America is in the war, were you paying much attention at all to what was going on in the world? PS: No. JS: Did you know there was a war in Europe or anything like that? PS: No. I didn‟t pay any attention to it until Pearl Harbor. (laughs) JS: Okay. What were you paying attention to, as you were there in high school? PS: I don‟t know. Just anything that was going on. JS: I don‟t know. What did people do for entertainment at that point? PS: Movies, mostly. JS: Movies. Radio? Listen to that much? PS: Yeah, the radio. JS: Okay. Now, do you remember hearing about Pearl Harbor, where you were, how that happened? (02:23) PS: My brother came home on a Sunday afternoon and he said the Japs burned, bombed Pearl Harbor. We thought he was lying. So we put the radio on. Well, we sit by the radio the rest of the day. JS: Now, let‟s see, you had a brother. Was he older or younger than you? PS: He was older. I had three brothers and two sisters. JS: And then did the brothers go into the service? PS: One brother. My oldest brother went in. He volunteered. And he went to, he was in, he landed in England three days after D-Day. So… JS: And were the other ones younger, or…? PS: Well, one of them was dead by then. And the other one was younger. And he was married with kids, so he didn‟t have to go. (03:19) �JS: Okay. Now, did you know, or were a lot of the boys that were your friends, did they run off and enlist right after Pearl Harbor? Or did they get drafted? Or… PS: Some of them enlisted, because they were only out of high school. And some of them died in the service. So… JS: Now, as the war went on, how did that kind of effect daily life back here, in Michigan? How did you…in what different ways did you know there was a war on? PS: Well, rationing was one thing. And, I don‟t know…I didn‟t pay too much attention to it. JS: Well, the rationing. What kind of stuff was being rationed? PS: Oh, sugar. Coffee. Cigarettes. We didn‟t smoke so it didn‟t bother us. And gasoline. We didn‟t have a car at that time, so it didn‟t bother us. (04:15) JS: You had a car before though, right? PS: Yeah. JS: So what happened to that? PS: Well, my dad left when I was about 11 years old. He took off and left our family. So it was my mother and my sister and I that…during the…well, it was before the war that he left. I was eleven years old. JS: So how did your family support itself at that point? PS: Well, my mother worked for the WPA and then, she did housework. JS: What kind of work was she doing for the WPA? PS: She used to make flags. (laughs) (04:50) JS: Okay. So that part of growing up must have been a little bit more of an adventure. PS: Yeah. We had hard times then, after my dad left. JS: So how did you get around? Did you just have to walk everywhere? PS: Bus. Or walking. JS: Now, what did you do once you graduated from high school? �PS: Well, when I was in high school, I worked for the NYA. It was started by Roosevelt. JS: And what was the NYA? PS: National Youth Administration. And it was for underprivileged kids. And we had, made $21 a month. And when I was in school, I had to watch a room while it was lunch hour. Or, if there was activities after school or at night, I‟d have to sit and watch coats. Or serve at banquets. And then when I graduated in February, they divided the school year in two at that time, and then I went and worked for the police station. (06:08) JS: What did you do for them? PS: I, first I started out filing and then I ended up typing driver‟s licenses. And I could have stayed there, had I taken…it went civil service, but I don‟t know why I didn‟t, cause it was hard getting a job once I was out of school. JS: How long did you stay at the police department? PS: I could only work there until I graduated, which would have been in June. JS: And then, for whatever reason, you didn‟t go and take the civil service exam, was that part of what you‟d have to do? PS: Yeah. Yeah. JS: And then where did you go after that? PS: Well, then I worked for Collier Publishing. Made $13 a week. I had to post customer‟s payments. And then I worked there a couple of years. And then I went to Colonial Bakery and there, I did office work. (07:06) JS: Okay. Now, as you were working in these different places, the police station, the publishing house, the bakery, and so forth, were there a lot of women working in those places, and doing some things that maybe men had done before? PS: No. They were mostly ladies. But when I worked at Colonial, I worked there quite a few years, and I got a telegram on Sunday night that my then boyfriend was coming home, after being in the service for four years, so I thought I‟ll call my boss up and tell him I‟m not coming in tomorrow. So I called him, and he said “whose going to do your work, if you‟re not at work?” And I said, well, whoever would do it if I was sick. And he said, well, if you don‟t come in tomorrow, you don‟t have a job. So I said, well, I quit. So, then I went and worked at Seedman/Seedman, typing tax returns, yeah. Or audits. And I worked there until I got…while I worked there, I got married and I worked there until I had my first baby. �(08:27) JS: Let‟s back up again, sort of to the war years there. One of the things that you‟d mentioned before the interview was that you‟d go with a group of girls, and so forth, to dances down at Fort Custer, down in Battle Creek. Now, tell us a little bit about that. How did that come about? PS: Well, my girlfriend, she went and she said, would you like to go. And I liked to dance and I said sure. And we went one Saturday night a month, by bus. And there were a whole bunch of girls that would do it. JS: And how old were most of the girls who were doing this? PS: Oh, in their early twenties. JS: So it wasn‟t like high school kids or things like that? PS: No. I was out of school. JS: Okay. And, so you‟d go down there by bus. Do you have any idea how long it took to get down there? PS: No. JS: So I expect at least a couple of hours if things were good, at that point. It‟s not that close to Grand Rapids. Well, how were things set up at Fort Custer? What did it look like? (09:31) PS: I think it was USO sponsored. Well, you could get soft drinks and stuff. But you couldn‟t go out of the building once you got there. You had to stay in the building. We danced. Had a lot of fun. JS: Right. Well, let‟s see. How did they keep you in the building? PS: They must have been checking, cause they told us we couldn‟t go out once we got there. JS: But you didn‟t see military police standing around, or anything like that? PS: No. No. JS: Now, did they have chaperones for this, older people who were looking out? PS: Yeah. Yeah. They had chaperones. JS: And then, for the music, did they have live bands there? Or just records? PS: I think it was records. �(10:18) JS: How big were these dances? How many people do you think were at them? PS: Oh, there were quite a few girls that went. A whole busload. JS: Were there girls coming in from other places. PS: No. They were all from Grand Rapids. Cause we didn‟t stop any place, so…” JS: Well, you are at Fort Custer, so that could draw on a fairly large area of places. Now, the men that were there. Were they sort of there once and then they‟d be gone the next time you came? PS: No. I saw that one fella there for as long as I went, cause he wanted to come to Grand Rapids to visit me, and I thought, oh…I don‟t know. And so…then I got engaged, so I didn‟t go anymore. (11:05) JS: Now, where did you meet Mike? PS: Well, I met him through his sister. His sister was my girlfriend in high school. So I met him through her. And we went together a year and a half, and then he was drafted. And he didn‟t come home for a furlough for, oh, I think it was fourteen, sixteen months. So… JS: So, you had to do something else for entertainment. PS: Yeah. Well, I used to meet my girlfriend downtown. We‟d meet every Monday, met her and we‟d have something to eat, and we‟d try on clothes. We didn‟t buy nothing but we tried them on. (laughs) And then I‟d meet girlfriends and go to the movies on Saturday nights. (12:01) JS: Were there not a whole lot of young men left in town at that point? PS: Well, there was that weather school that was here. That was in the Pantlind. And every day when I went to work, I‟d see these guys marching down Monroe. So… but that was about the only guys that were around, were those. And guys that were 4F. Or married. JS: Okay. Now do you remember things about…I guess, the government made an effort to rally people behind the cause and to get them to do different things and so forth. There were a lot of different ways they were trying to give you messages and tell you to support the guys and that sort of thing. What sort of things do you remember? I mean, obviously there was the USO stuff that you got involved in, that was cause your girlfriend brought you in. What other kinds of things were you being encouraged to do, or…how were you supposed to be supporting the war effort at home? (13:01) �PS: I don‟t know. I didn‟t do nothing. Some of my friends did socks, darned socks, but I didn‟t do any. JS: Did you buy war bonds, or things like that? PS: Oh, yeah. I bought war bonds. JS: And how did that work? I mean, did you have money taken out of your paycheck, or…” PS: Yeah. So much every week. JS: Now, was that something that pretty much everybody did, as far as you could tell? PS: No, not everybody did that. JS: But you made a decision that that was something you wanted to do, then? PS: Yeah. And to save money. JS: So it was practical on that level, too. All right. So were there people going around collecting scrap of different kinds? You know, metal and paper, that kind of thing, that you noticed particularly? PS: No. No. (14:00) JS: Was there anything going on here in Grand Rapids that you noticed, for civil defense, that sort of thing? PS: Yeah. They did have civil defense. And every once in a while, they would have bomb black outs. You‟d have to practice that. JS: And what did that mean, on a practical level? PS: Just that you‟d have to turn all your lights off. I remember that it looked kind of eerie. But other than that, I don‟t remember much of what was going on. JS: But even that was something that was a occasional drill, rather than something you had to do every night? Now, were things kind of weird, or confused, right after Pearl Harbor? Was there a lot of speculation about what we might have to do, or… PS: Well, everybody was worried then, they thought, oh boy. What‟s coming next, you know. Are they coming here? So… (15:04) �JS: So you said you weren‟t paying a whole lot of attention necessarily to what was going on in the war and stuff. Did things change once Mike got shipped overseas? PS: Yeah. Then I watched the news. And you‟d have to go to the movies to see the news reels. And I‟d read the paper. So. JS: Now, do you remember how the paper covered the war? What kinds of things showed up there? PS: Well, if somebody…the boys killed in the war, it‟d be weeks later before they‟d know about it. Their picture would be in the paper. And a write-up. But now-a-days, you‟d have it right on television. JS: That‟s right. Now, when Mike went overseas…was Mike writing to you on a regular basis? PS: Oh, yeah. JS: And was he doing that when he was gone, before you got engaged, or… PS: No. Cause he lived right…not too far from me. No, he started writing, and he was gone a long time. (16:09) JS: Um hmm. How regularly did he write, especially once they shipped him out? PS: Practically every day, but sometimes you wouldn‟t get a letter for weeks. Then you‟d get a bunch of them. So. Then you‟d wonder if something happened. JS: Did you try to follow or keep track of where he was, as best you could? PS: Well, you couldn‟t, because he wasn‟t allowed to write it. JS: He didn‟t have some kind of way of sending a code or whatever? PS: We didn‟t think about it. JS: Cause a lot of guys, when they were in the States, at least, might be able to tip off where they were. It wasn‟t to hard. Like, I‟m near Grandma‟s or something like that. But, yeah, once they got over to Europe, they did their best to cover it up. They were postmarked “New York” or something like that. PS: Yeah. They were all censored. (17:00) JS: So did you get censored letters? �PS: Pardon? JS: Did you get censored letters? Did Mike write things and then… PS: Yeah. Well, not very often but once in a while there‟d be something cut out. So then you got those v-mails. JS: The v-mails, the little photographed versions of letters. (17:26) JS: So now as the war went on and it became one year into the next, and that kind of thing, do you think people‟s view changed, or expectations changed, as it went on? PS: No, I don‟t think so. It lasted so long. JS: Did you worry that it might not ever actually end? PS: (laughs) Yeah. Then, when they dropped that bomb, that was the start of the end, so. JS: Now do you remember hearing about that, or reading about that when it happened? PS: Oh, yeah. That was big news. JS: And in the news stories, I mean this was still a little bit before the actual Japanese surrender, were they speculating that this would sort of finish off the Japanese, or just saying, hey. We got a big bomb. (18:12) PS: I don‟t remember. JS: Cause we look back at it now, we always connect the two. And they certainly made a lot of noise about it at the time. But so we like to ask, hey what do you remember about that time. But quickly enough after that, you actually have the Japanese surrender. And it‟s finally over. Now, how long did it take for life to return to something like normal back here? PS: Oh, boy. I don‟t know. A while. JS: And what were there…when the guys came back, did they have trouble finding jobs that you noticed, or… PS: Yeah. Some of them did. JS: And were there women being moved out of their jobs? Or, did you now women who did? PS: There were a lot of women in the factories at that time. I don‟t know. I didn‟t pay that much attention to it. �(19:10) JS: Now, how long did rationing go on? PS: Well, after the war, I think it was still on for a little while. But it doesn‟t seem like gasoline was rationed after the war. Although it was hard to get a car. JS: It took a while. They had to start making new ones again. PS: Yeah. And then I remember they couldn‟t get tires. JS: And that was also something that was rationed, too. You couldn‟t get those. PS: Nylons, during the war. Ad I remember once being in a store and ladies were crying because they couldn‟t get flannel, for diapers for babies. JS: so what would they use for diapers, if they couldn‟t get flannel? PS: I don‟t know. Cause…I can still see those ladies crying, cause they couldn‟t get flannel. (20:04) JS: But you didn‟t have kids until after the war, so you at least avoided that one. PS: No. That didn‟t bother me. JS: Are there other things that kind of stand out in your mind at all, about kind of what it was like, or what people were doing, or things that went on during the war that you saw or heard about, that you didn‟t get later on? PS: I remember I saved my money, I was going to go with some girlfriends to Chicago to see Frank Sinatra. And my brother told my mother, not to let us go. Not to let me go. JS: And how old were you at that time? PS: Oh, I was working so I was out of school. JS: You were still living at home at that point? PS: Oh, yeah. He said, no, don‟t let her go. So my mom said, no, I couldn‟t go. JS: Okay. Did he ever explain that one? PS: Oh, he was always after us. We couldn‟t do this, and we couldn‟t do that. And my mother would listen to him, so. JS: Now was he an older brother? �PS: He was eighteen years older than me. (21:11) JS: So did he kind of fill in in the family, once your father left? PS: Yeah. Because when he went into the service, my mother got an allotment from him, so. He always watched over us. JS: Yeah. He had to take on that job. Just make sure you stayed out of trouble. PS: And he gave us, my sister and I, each got fifty cents a week, spending money. Which was quite a bit in those days. JS: I don‟t know, what could you get, what might a teenager want in those days? PS: I saved mine. But my sister spent hers and wanted to spend mine too. (laughter) JS: Okay. Anything else from that time that sort of sticks out in your head when you think back to that time? PS: No. JS: (addresses someone else in room) Do you remember anything else? Unknown speaker: Just about your wedding, you said it was hard to find dresses… PS: Oh, yeah. When we got married, you couldn‟t find dresses for bridesmaids. Bridesmaids had different kinds of dresses on, cause you couldn‟t find two of them alike. (22:23) JS: When did you get married? PS: We got married…he came home in November and we got married in June. JS: June of ‟46, then. PS: June, 1946. JS: So that‟s going to be one area where things are in shorter supply then they were before. Unknown speaker: And wasn‟t it hard to get a wedding cake… PS: Oh, yeah. (break in video) JS: There was something about the wedding cake? �Unknown speaker: Yeah. You couldn‟t get butter or flour. PS: We had to supply our own sugar for the wedding cake, so. That was hard to get at that time. Even after the war. JS: So why would you have to…did you have the cake made by a bakery, or just have an individual… PS: Well, we had a reception at the Pantlind Hotel and they must have wanted the sugar. JS: So the Pantlind Hotel, the nicest hotel in downtown Grand Rapids, they can‟t get sugar? Okay, then. That‟s kind of an odd things to kind of have stand out. I‟m sure the Amway people wouldn‟t let that happen. (laughs) Okay I think we‟ve pretty well covered it there… (23:47) JS: I want to thank you for taking the time to talk to us today. We‟ve gotten some things here that a lot of people later on will not have known or thought about, so…thank you very much. (23:54) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context StolkP Title A name given to the resource Stolk, Peggy (Interview transcript and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stolk, Peggy Description An account of the resource Peggy Stolk was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan and grew up during the Depression. Her family never ran into any major problems during that time, but afterwards her father left her mother with six children to raise on her own. Peggy worked during high school and during the war, while she was waiting for her boyfriend to come home. She said that most of the young men were gone at the time and she spent a lot of time hanging out with girlfriends. She wrote her boyfriend everyday while he was fighting in Europe and they finally got married in 1946. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Civilian World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-02-28 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fc8ec496fb9b3ff253117cc22926f5f5.mp4 0e0340dd7f48038d414ea35729a4045d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/29eb7d57c02df84797d90e48fe65d360.pdf 23eb6c855160b932d3623e8542c98825 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Edward Stolt (00:37:24) (:07) Early Life • (:07) Born Jan 13, 1919, in Bayshore near Charlevoix, Michigan. • (:24) His father was a farmer, and a barn builder. • (:45) In 1929 they moved to Lansing for two years. While he lived in Lansing, his mother died. Next they moved in with his uncle for a few years, and later back to Bayshore. • (1:01) His father lost the farm, which he had inherited from his father. • (1:21) He did not finish high school, only went to the 8th grade. • (1:38) He moved in with his mother’s brother, and then he moved to Petoskey, and then he joined the Army. • (1:55) He worked on farms until he joined the Army. • (2:07) He knew he would likely be drafted eventually, he figured he might as well join. Draftees were in for three years, and enlistees only for a year, or so he was told at the time. (2:44) Enlisted/Domestic Service • (2:46) He went to Oklahoma City for training, in an artillery school. • (2:57) The trip to Oklahoma was his first lengthy trip. He went by train, and it took a few days. He doesn’t recall getting off at any point. • (3:33) Fort Sill at that time was just tents and wooden floors. They used bedrolls instead of cots. • (3:52) He started out driving trucks, and later went into communications. He used a telephone, not a radio. He learned how to ready the equipment quickly. • (4:30) He did Basic training as well, which was not especially difficult. • (4:48) The drill sergeants were all right. He was at Fort Sill for thirteen weeks. • (5:06) Next he went to Fort Leonard Wood, in Missouri. He was at Leonard Wood when Pearl Harbor was attacked. He started out in communications, but one of the higher up officials had someone else in mind for that position and he was transferred. • (5:45) He began driving a jeep for the colonel. By this point he was in a battalion, the 949th Field Artillery Battalion. • (6:53) The colonel was about thirty-five. He was an experienced Army man, and had been in the service for many years, but he was not in WWI. • (7:29) He was assigned to reconnaissance, to help find the enemy’s position. • (7:56) When Pearl Harbor was attacked; he was celebrating with friends in Lebanon, Missouri. His training continued unchanged after the attack. • (8:38) Most of the men went out drinking on their leaves. He usually didn’t go with them since he was not much of a drinker. Sometimes the men went to the movies as well. • (9;11) He didn’t see the USO very much while he was in the States. �• (9:20) He was at Leonard Wood for about three years. He worked for the colonel for most of this time. After Leonard Wood, his unit was sent to California, and they were nearly sure they would be sent to the Pacific. Instead, they were sent to North Carolina and deployed to Europe. (9:53) Deployment • (9:53) First, they went to England. He doesn’t recall which port they set out of, but it was in New York. He went on the Queen Elizabeth, and it was very crowded with thirteen thousand men on the ship. • (10:49) He crossed in early summer 1944, after D-Day. They arrived at Normand on June 22nd. They were a detached outfit of the 3rd Army. • (11:28) He was in England for about six weeks to two months. They camped in the countryside, but he doesn’t recall where. He was in England during D-Day, they were not kept informed of any developments at the time. • (`12:24) At the time it was hard it to imagine the way that Omaha Beach would look. They landed two weeks after D-Day, and saw wreckage of German equipment. They did not see as much American wreckage, as it had mostly been cleared away. • (13:22) They landed in a small landing craft, and stayed put for a few days. His unit was sent out shortly after. • (14:44) Combat usually started out slow, and sped up towards the later parts. He was in the lead convoy with the colonel, and sometimes helped with reconnaissance. • (14:38) Once they got very close to the Germans, and were cut off for about two days. They called for reinforcements once they were able, using the large radio in the back of the jeep. They had been cut off somewhere in France, but he does not recall where. • (16:13) The land in Normandy was mostly farms and farmhouses. The farms were closer together, and closer to the houses than in America. They also had hedgerows to mark boundaries, and Germans frequently hid in them. • (16:56) The colonel decided where to put the guns. • (17:23) The French were friendly, but mostly kept to themselves. • (18:20) A few times in Normandy they had larger battles, and shot more shells than usual. The Germans usually hid in the woods, which was not a very good idea since it increased the chances of shrapnel injuries from the trees. • (19:13) They were twice strafed and shot at by a plane, and once by a tank’s 88 while on reconnaissance. They were only bombed by the Germans once, and during the night. • (20:27) He crossed Northern France in the summer, and they did not have much trouble. Some of them men were nervous, but he wasn’t, and he is not quite sure why. The Germans were retreating quickly by this time, and they had a hard time finding them. • (21:07) Until the Battle of the Bulge, it was rare for them to see Germans in France by this point. • (21:36) Later on, he was called to lead four gunners. The unit had to be split since it was not possible to bring the entire unit. He is unsure why he was chosen. �• (22:22) His unit stayed in the area for awhile before the Bulge, they were trying to find the Germans. • (22:57) The weather just before the Bulge was good weather, but it rained during it. They used empty houses, or barns to sleep and camp in. • (23:37) He spent one night in a foxhole. He had been spending the night in the truck, but a German plane showed up, and his friends woke him up to come into the foxhole. He stayed in the foxhole the entire night. • (24:24) It was best to wait for the enemy to shoot, instead of shooting early. Shooting early could betray one’s position. He did not go into Belgium. • (25:02) They reached Germany sometime around October. He later got a medal for the liberation of France. He was in Germany prior to the Bulge. He crossed the Rhine, but does not recall where. • (26:28) He went on liberty in Paris once. Paris was mostly intact as it had not been bombed. He went to the local bars, and went sightseeing. He was the Eiffel Tower, and a cathedral. He spent his nights in hotels. • (27:30) He was in Normandy when the Germans surrendered. His outfit stayed in Europe for a few months after that. They spent most of the time visiting with people, and generally doing what they pleased. • (28:19) His outfit essentially stayed together during the entire war. The colonel successfully opposed the transfer of a few of his men into the infantry. He didn’t want to deal with rookie recruits, and his men had been together for three years. • (29:00) They had a “Bed Check Charlie,” an enemy plane that swept over their general area trying to get them to betray their position by firing at it. An outfit close to them, about half a mile away, shot at the plane one night. The next morning, half the unit had been wiped out. • (29:49) He once saw Patton going down the street, but no more than that. • (30:05) He saw the USO a few times while in Europe, but doesn’t remember specifically. • (30:20) One of his friends was a mechanic, and trained at a different base. He kept correspondence with the man after the war. The two of them married two sisters. His friend passed away about ten years ago. • (31:12) He befriended many men in his unit as well. They only lost four or five men during the war, which was very lucky. • (31:30) Some of the men were from the National Guard in Detroit. His friend was from Elvian, Michigan. And a few of the men were from Grand Rapids. The rest were from all over the country. (32:01) Post-War • (32:01) There were one thousand, two hundred people on the ship on the way back home. It was a much smaller ship. • (32:27) He didn’t get seasick on the way back, but he was “landsick” for a few days when he got home, after being accustomed to the ship. • (32:53) For about two months, he didn’t work and collected unemployment. Then he worked for an equipment company, and helped make car parts. He once made a pickle trough as well. • (33:22) Later, he worked as a carpenter. He started out building homes, btu later �moved to commercial carpentry. (33:52) Life Lessons, and Amusing Anecdotes • (33:52) While in the Army he learned to “keep his mouth shut,” and to follow orders, even if he thought the orders were a bad idea. He didn’t learn all that much else. • (34:56) When he and the colonel were cut off from the head of the infantry, it was pitch black. The Sergeant Major saw a shape in the dark and shot it twice. In the morning they found out it was the musette bag, and it was half-emptied. • (35:29) When he was sent off with four gunners, the Germans surrended before he arrived. The men joked that the Germans realized that “Ed was coming, so they gave up.” • (35:49) Most of the things he found funny after the war were not funny at the time. • (36:10) He wasn’t nervous, but many of the men were. • (26:42) He saw many things that “stay with you,” and which he could not explain adequately to civilians. He tried once or twice, but gave up. He talked with veterans about it frequently. • (37:24) Part of the reason that he wasn’t nervous may have been that he became a fatalist after Normandy. He was so sure about his death in the field, that it no longer worried him. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context StoltE Title A name given to the resource Stolt, Edward (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stolt, Edward Description An account of the resource Edward Stolt was born Jan 13, 1919, in Bayshore, Michigan. His family moved around frequently. He did not finish school, and stopped at the eighth grade. He worked on farms until he joined the Army. He was at Fort Leonard Wood for three years before being deployed to Europe. He served primarily in France and Germany. He served in the 949th Field Artillery Battalion, driving a jeep for the Colonel, assisting with communications, and reconnaissance. He arrived two weeks after D-Day, and was involved the in the campaigns in Normandy, northeastern France and Germany. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-08-26 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0f1e86dcc1eae319337d7015ad2bd714.mp4 d2bf84bef5688122620f0ed1b859d238 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/949efe557fdd301659dc1302f3e57c22.pdf cb68ce2e3abeb4ec0b624ddc9299cbcf PDF Text Text Native American Oral Histories Gi-gikinomaage-min Project Interview: Christine Marcus Stone Interviewer: Belinda Bardwell Date: February 15, 2016 [Lin] Okay...Well good morning Chris! [Chris] Good morning. [Lin] Good afternoon. So, you were saying that you were born in Tuscon. [Chris] Tuscon, Arizona. [Lin] And then you were adopted. [Chris] Mmhm. [Lin] Were your parents from there originally? How did they get connected? [Chris] My parents, who adopted me, are originally from here, Rockford - Tower City, area. [Lin] Okay. [Chris] And they moved out there for my father's work. Well, he wasn't my father at the time. He moved out to work, he used to work for the University of Arizona. They built a little pueblo on the desert. Right in the middle of all these cactus. It was amazing. And my mother even witched her own well out there. Amongst the cowboys, and the snakes, and the horses and such. So, and then they were out there for eleven years. About the ninth/tenth year they found me, through this agency. So, [Lin] When you say witch for water, what does that mean? [Chris] She had a stick, and I don't remember what type of stick it was, it was apparently quite common out there. 'Cause they bought this eleven acres of land, and there was no water. And, of course, you have to have a well. And so she had a stick, maybe they call it a divining stick? And she was holding it, at the two ends and it was like a Y-shape thing and then she walked across the desert, around the house. All of a sudden, the stick starts to shake, and that's where they dug for the water. And, she had well. [Lin] Interesting. So, what Native group, or how would you describe yourself and your 1|Page �ethnicity? [Chris] Well, I was lucky enough to find out through my parents who knew the doctor. Navajo, Scottish, and some English. [Lin] Okay. [Chris] I'm a mixed bag. [Lin] So, you were transported back here. How old were you when you moved here? [Chris] I think two or three. And my parents first went to Detroit, and then moved to Grand Rapids soon after that. [Lin] So where did you grow up in Grand Rapids? [Chris] I went to Alger School. So, I grew up on Almont Street. Walked to school every day. And the house still is there. I drive by it occasionally. [Lin] Really? Still standing, huh? [Chris] Yeah, yeah. [Lin] Have you ever thought about going back in and-- [Chris] Knocking on the door? [Lin] Yeah. [Chris] Yeah. To see if the blue and white check wallpaper that I wanted put up is still there? Yeah. [Lin] So, you were two and three when you moved to Grand Rapids what was your first memory of living in an urban area? [Chris] Well, I would say the area I lived in was almost a quintessential urban area. Rows of cute little houses, and perfect little street. And you got the neighbors. We played kick the can at night or hide n' seek and stuff. It wasn't very much of a mixed neighborhood. But we had a lot of fun as kids. We played outdoors a lot. And, I walked to school. And spent all my time at Alger school, and ice skating and just growing up a kid. [Lin] You said you went back to visit in nineteen seventy. Can you tell me a little bit about that? 2|Page �[Chris] Mmhm, back to Tuscon. When I was high school, which was at Interlochen Arts Academy, we did a field trip. And we went to a-- there was a number of us, 'bout...I'd say seven or eight of us. That flew out to Phoenix. I flew out a little bit before to Tucson, to visit some of my parents friends that we're still in there and then they took me around and showed me where I was born. And where the old house was, the old little pueblo that my parents built. Which I still have a lot of pictures of, and they hand built it with the help of some Hispanic people. I still have some of the relics from that house. My mother loves art. So, I still have some really early pieces of art from there. [Lin] Nice. So it's still standing, huh? [Chris] I think so, yeah. [Lin] When was your last visit? [Chris] Well that was in seventy. I haven't been back for a long time. I do so much here. I just haven't really had the chance to go back. [Lin] Is that something you want to do? [Chris] Oh, yeah! Sure. Not probably to live because -- It's strange but being born in the desert, being here all these years, I'm like a woods and waters girl is what I tell myself. I love the woods and the water here. I live on the lake now, so it would be tough too. I love the beauty of the desert, and I would love to go back and visit. Even every year would be fabulous but that's not going to happen right now. So... [Lin] So, you’re a water girl now, huh? [Chris] I love water, yup! [Lin] So you went to Interlochen… [Chris] Arts Academy [Lin] Arts Academy. Can you tell me about that high school? [Chris] Well, that's uh… They probably did for me for my career, because I am a painter. By my learning the most for me as far as-- I'd say relying on myself to create and to compete with only myself. I mean I love to look at other people work. But I know that I want to compete with myself through the last picture I did and the last painting. I do about a hundred and twenty paintings a year. 3|Page �[Lin] That keeps you pretty busy. Did you have any other Native students in your school? [Chris] Not in school. Not in that school. I was trying to think back. When I was--When I lived in Arizona it was a child. We used to go to these--there was like trading post. And we used to go all the time, my mom would bring me. And I would dance with the local Natives there. You know, I didn't have an outfit to wear or anything. I just had civilian clothes [Lin] So were you involved with the Native community in Grand Rapids? Did you know about the native community? [Chris] I was associated with the Grand Valley Indian Lodge. The Peter's family, I got to know them. One of the first pow wows I went to was in Hastings. Years ago. I mean a long time ago. Oh, golly. I would have to think back. I went to high school with Lisa Shawnesse. Whose now well, she's walked on. That would have been sixty-eight/sixty-nine, eleventh grade. And that's when we'd go up north with Moose Pamp and protest the bones up there. I think they were with Saint Ignace. There was somebody over there with open graves. [Lin] Who'd you go to Saint Ignace with? [Chris] It'd be Lisa Shawnesse. And she was from Petoskey. So, we'd stay there in Petoskey. [Lin] And you mentioned the Peters. [Chris] Ike Peters and May Peters. Both of who have now walked on, and the Peter's girls are still around and Renee is there daughter--Renee Diller. And we call her Wassan. [Lin] Moose Pamp. Do you have any interesting stories about Moose? [Chris] Just that he was very charismatic. He was really a good leader. I wish he'd been able to live longer. I think he would have been fabulous to draw the communities around here, you know better. I think he would have been-- got everybody closer. You know because we don't--At that time, we didn't have really somebody to... that was good leader not only for Pottawatomies, but Odawas and such, and Chippewas. [Lin] Any anecdote. [Chris] No, I just thought he was a really neat person. I knew his mother and sister. And they were all equally as--such a neat family. A lot of power there. You know, he 4|Page �was a good dancer. And I remember his kids when they were born. We used to go down to Martin's all the time. I'd see him there. His family there. We'd watch them grow up I think I saw his son. I don't know how many years ago. It was probably five-six years ago, now. All grown up. So that was a real, wow. See these kids, you know fully dressed out there during the pow wow, dancing. But Moose was a good dancer, too. I remember Detroit Pow wow. He would come out on the dance floor, so great to see him. Yup he'd shake it. So, it was great to see him, you know both sides of his world. That side the being that dances at our pow wows. I get used to [INAUDIBLE] dances. That's just from living in the south. [Lin] You mentioned the Martins. What Martins would you be referring to? [Chris] George Martin and Sid. Pumpkin. And then of course Dave Shenogkwit (?). [Lin] Yup. So after high school, what were you busy doing after high school? [Chris] I worked for a year, at Meijer, I bagged groceries. Did that, and then I went on to Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Art in Philadelphia. Which was a great school except I, personally, could not hack living in the city. The Center City deep. You know a city that's like...You had to walk to school every day, over a mile. And just the inner-city kind of stuff was really tough. Because coming from Interlochen where it's all woods and the biggest scare is to see a raccoon off across the parking lot. Then you go into down town Philadelphia. It's kind of a wakeup call. [Lin] So where did you grow up? [Chris] I grew up here in Grand Rapids. [Lin] In Grand Rapids in the city? [Chris] Mhm, in the city. Until sixth grade. And then I went to Central High School, and then I went to Interlochen for my last year. [Lin] Oh, okay. [Chris] And Interlochen for my art career. I just, I can't express how important that was for me the training there the motivation. That fire that that lit in me there at that school to create. If it wasn't for that school I wouldn't be probably as prolific as I am today. [Lin] So how long did you go to Penn. Fine Arts? [Chris] Well, Interlochen I went for the last year, graduated. Then I went to Philadelphia just for probably a few months. Six months. I'm really just had a terribly difficult 5|Page �problem with hearing the street fights down below the apartment. And just seeing homeless people with their problems on the way to school. With people coming up to you in these bigger cities. You know, I was young. I mean I was just a young girl. I just--I just… [Lin] Did you move out there by yourself? [Chris] Yeah, I moved out to Philadelphia by myself, and I lived right downtown. Right downtown. [Lin] Ah, yes. That is different. [Chris] But I remember my apartment. I had my Navajo rugs spread out, and some of my native things there. It was tough, but you know then I went to Detroit for just a couple of months and lived with a friend of my mom's. Think that's when I went to Detroit Pow Wow. That's where Moose was at the time. And many other people I still know today. That's the first time I saw Floyd Westerman sing. [Lin] So, after you finished there, and you had already worked at Meijers, moved to Detroit. When you come back to Grand Rapids? [Chris] Well, I just stayed down there a couple months, and then I came back. [Lin] And what did you do-- [Chris] And then I came back. And then I went to Kalamazoo Valley Community College. So, I was like, away from home but not. You know it was like just enough far away I felt like the independence. But not right on top of my parents here in Grand Rapids. [Lin] Did you finish at K’zoo? [Chris] No, I didn't. I got married. [Lin] Did you-- Were there Native people that you associated with at Kalamazoo Community College? Was there a group? [Chris] There was never a group that I could find. Which was too bad, because that would have been fun. Nope, not there. I painted Native subjects there. Not people at the school. But just as I painted painting class. I maybe did some, maybe an abstract piece but it had very Native overtones. So, that's--that would have been back in the early ‘70s. And then I started going to more pow wows, and dancing and such. I think I figured I've been dancing forty-two years maybe? Cause of my age now. 6|Page �[Lin] Did your parents, here in Michigan, support you in giving you your Native heritage and teaching about that. Or you did you do that on your own? [Chris] Well, they supported me. Whatever I wanted to do, certainly. But I did a lot on my own. You almost sometimes you have to. If you want something bad enough. You know, whether you want power clothes and get 'em done. You just get them, you know you just do it, you can't just figure that someone is going to hand it to you. [Lin] So did you work any other places? Or did you then just become a full-time artist? [Chris] My, that's a walk down memory lane. Then, I was here with my son. He was born, [INAUDIBLE], ‘74. And I live in Rockford and I had a small store there. Which I sold a lot of crafts, beads, and such. I was raising my son, [INAUDIBLE] Went to pow wows. Did a lot of bead work. [Lin] So the store in Rockford, was it only yours? Or was it a consignment? [Chris] It was just mine. [Lin] Well received in Rockford? [Chris] I think so. Yeah, I mean some people still remember it today. Cause we sold beads. A lot of beads, before there were too many bead stores around. Now, then there seem to be like a lot of bead stores for a while now. Again here in Grand Rapids you don't find too many bead stores. Except for the big ones like Hobby Lobby and Michael's has a few beads too. But I sold a lot of seed beads and stuff that you'd need to go to work with that. [Lin] A lot of visitors in your store? [Chris] Oh, Yeah. Yup. We sold other--we had a lot of baskets. I handled a lot of baskets from up north, Mount Pleasant. From Maggie Jackson and Eli Thomas. We had gone to Canada. Purchased a lot of things that came--back in the store. Sydney Martin's mother, who has a basket. [INAUDIBLE] I have a lot of baskets from her. So, I take a trip down to Hopkins every so often. So, I still have people today if I see them somewhere in Rockford they'll say: "Oh, I still have that basket that I got from your store. I still have that pottery I got from your store." [Lin] When did you close the store? [Chris] It had to have been...I think my son was five. Probably the late ‘70s early 80s and I got married again and moved to Oklahoma. And lived down there for four years. 7|Page �And that was-- I lived in the city. [Lin] Which city? [Chris] In Tulsa. Tulsa, Oklahoma. But it was fun down there because there was so much Native influence down there. You didn't have to go for a dance. Or, you know get together on the weekends with dances. Or we went to peyote meetings too during church. [Lin] How does their dances differ from the ones you experienced up in Grand Rapids, Michigan area? [Chris] Well during the winter they're mostly indoors. But a lot of them were just at the school. And it was almost a ritual. That: "Hey, it's Friday night. [INAUDIBLE] have their dance at the school, let's go!" You know they were small. They were just for that evening, but that's what made it so fun. They were just, you know, right now. Of course, they were inside which most of the dances up here. Of course, in the summer outside. So, I got used to the inside dances just as well. But they were very well attended and of course you have a lot of conglomeration of the same tribes in the same area. Bartlesville, Osage, Oklahoma City would be more of a mix of people. But they were fairly well attended. A lot of drummers and giveaways and stuff. Just like traveling down to Oklahoma City people were always giving away shawls and things to me. You know, nice gifts. Even though they didn't know me. Just simply because I was a visitor. I find that to be really wonderful. You know in turn I've learned to do that with people, I like to give away a lot of stuff if I have it. [Lin] So, what did you down there for four years? [Chris] I was a housewife. But, I really ran a business at the food market. I had a sewing business. And I made a lot of stuff for the market and antiques and such. Also, starting about March. I'd taken different people's order for ribbon work. So, I know it fits for June. ‘Cause June-- You know, sage country, it's all about the three dances that they have down there. So, the dining room table was always laid out with broad cloth, and ribbon work, and all that kind of stuff. [Lin] I was telling Leigh that you could go to a gal in the area for Pottawatomie outfits, and reverse appliqué. So, tell me little bit about your parents here in Grand Rapids. [Chris] Well, my mother grew up in Rockford her family had a grocery store and, that's when she was growing up. Then the grocery store was sold and they had a gift shop, her parents, and they lived right on Monroe Street. 150 Monroe. And, that house is still standing. Then my dad grew up in Howard City. He was very 8|Page �athletic. They both went to Michigan State. It's where they met. So, Michigan State has fond memories for me because of them. And, I have a lot of pictures of them when they were going to school there. So, they met there, and they were married forty-seven years. And then my mom passed away. [Lin] Your dad? [Chris] My dad lived until ‘93. [Lin] Wow. [Chris] He passed away about seven years ago now. [Lin] So, you said he moved--they moved to Tucson 'cause he worked at the University of Arizona. What did do there? [Chris] He was a sports writer for the magazine. He just loved to write. He was the editor and stuff. He did work for, before it burned down in Detroit. When they lived back in Detroit. That round building. I'm trying to think of that round building. [Lin] The towers? [Chris] No. The Rotunda I believe. The Ford Rotunda. Which was, you know, much earlier than you. [Laughter] Yup. He worked there, and I remember as a little girl going there. It burned down for some reason years ago. And when we moved here he worked for the Grand Rapids Press for a while. And then he got a job with the West Michigan Tourist Association. And wrote and edited books for them. And tourist information. [Lin] Brothers? Sisters? [Chris] No brothers, no sisters. [Lin] Wow. No cousins. [Chris] Spoiled only child. No, I'm single at this time. I've been single for a long time now. Since probably the ‘81. [Lin] So, did your parents have brothers and sisters. Did you have a close family? Or were you...? [Chris] My dad was an only child. So, you have an only child, with an only child, and I have an only child. And then my mother had one sister. And we were very close. It was a neat family. Three cousins, an aunt and uncle. And the aunt and uncle 9|Page �live over here for many years. And up in Howard City. And bought a hundred and twenty acres of property. Which they guarded fearlessly. To leave natural and for the animals and wildlife. My uncle was a recycler before it was cool to recycle. I remember as a kid just going there and I'd ask him: "What are you doin' with those cans?" You know. And he would cut the ends of both of the cans and smoosh them. And he'd say: "I'm saving space in the recycling, 'cause I'm gonna take these in these are going to be recycled into something else." And that was way back before we have today, all the messages to recycle. But he-he fiercely guarded that land. And it's set on the Little Muskegon River. They did have some swans. You know, whatever wildlife came there way. [Lin] Is that property still protected? And still there? [Chris] Yeah. But someone still lives there. You know they built their own house. You know and he built a lot of the stuff on that property. But even like the roads going into the house Royce left, they were never paved. They were just two trackers into a real nice house, overlooking the river. He Just wanted to keep it natural. And for years you would go up there where the house was and we'd have to use what they would call the loony bin. Which was the bathroom--which was the outhouse up there. [Lin] Hm. [Chris] And my aunt was an artist too. And she would like to write and paint. She worked for the paper in Greenville and then Rockford. And my mother also was an artist. Although she didn't paint much, which was too bad. 'Cause she really was good at what she did. But she did a lot of embroidery. And, um--so… [Lin] So, who was your big influence in becoming an artist? I realize that a lot of that comes from within, but who set you down the path of going to Interlochen and who inspired you? [Chris] Well, you know, when I was here in Grand Rapids, I didn't really know about Interlochen and then one of my friends, her name was Maureen Bell, she went there. And she was telling me about the school. And she knew that I painted and stuff. She said: "You know, you really should go to Interlochen." And I didn't know what it was. And she was telling me about it. And then over at her parents’ house, her mother's house, there was a self-portrait of her that she did at Interlochen. And I was so impressed with that. I thought: "I gotta know more about this school." So, this was like tenth grade. So, it took part of tenth grade and eleventh grade to get in; do all the paperwork, and then you have to go in, and have interview, and sent all this artwork and such. So, I was able to go, thank goodness, for my senior year. I would have loved to have gone for two years. But the training there--the intensity of it, you know you just learn to um-- 10 | P a g e �just compete with yourself. Not to compete with other artists. But to keep up with yourself. Because I can't express enough. And to be a real critical eye. Not so much to discourage yourself, but be honest with yourself and your creativity. And really say: "Is this right in this painting?" So, I had, actually there, I had painting and drawing. And I had weaving. Because the difference of Interlochen you have four hours a day of art. And you have a major and a minor. [Lin] Wow. [Chris] By the time you get out, at twelfth grade, you are considered to have about the training of a first year in college. [Lin] Interesting. [Chris] It's very intense. So then, of course, after dinner that we'd go back to the art room to keep going at it as far as weaving, or drawing, or whatever we were trying to finish for the end of the year. [Lin] Hm. Was your biological mother or father an artist? [Chris] That I don't know. I heard that my biological father had something to do with building or wood. Maybe, I don't know if he's a carpenter or exactly what. [Lin] Well that's artistic. [Chris] Yeah. [Lin] So growing up as an only child. Having been the daughter of an only child. Did you pull from the native community for family members? Like-- [Chris] I think it was about equal. I had a lot of good friends. Like May Ring or May Peter's I should say. Her maiden name was Ring. And she was just like a mother to me too. So, I was very blessed in knowing so many older women in the community. Which also taught me a lot. Jeanette Sinclair is one, and May. You know it's... I was just very blessed with all the people I knew. I was on the, with Rene, I was on the Native Women's Softball Team too. I can't remember what year that was-- That would be...and I remember I got in trouble for throwing the bat once at the end of the year. When you're supposed to have...I was so excited to hit the ball, and the takeoff that I...'Cause I was never really a fast runner. I just remember that I was so-- I was devastated. I them saying something over the speaker about throwing the bat. I mean, like, I hit the ball and threw the bat down too hard or something. Maybe I didn't throw it at anyone. My gosh. It seems like a million years ago. Well, it kind of was. 11 | P a g e �[Lin] Sports was a big intercity Native kind of past time. Besides softball what do you remember? [Chris] I remember going to some other games, but that was really for me. You know that I remember participating, yeah. Because I was never really sports-y. Although my dad said that I was naturally athletic. And I was a really good swimmer. But, I'm not competitive. So. I probably never would've done it had not Renee been there. I think she was fourteen I probably was. Maybe seventeen? I'd really have to do the numbers to remember. [Lin] Jeanette Sinclair was a key important person in this community. Anything you'd like to share about your experiences? Or hanging out with Jeanette? [Chris] She was just so wonderful and soft-spoken. I mean she was very smart. You know, like you said, she was a key player in this community. She also was one of the first people that taught me how to do bead work at Grand Valley. At Grand Valley Indian Lodge, I had met a lot of people through there. Uh, Native and nonNatives. And the Lodge has changed now. It used to be there was two meetings a month and very well attended. But now I'm not sure what’s going on, you know as far as meetings. But they still have the pow wow. And I was head dancer at that pow wow. And that would have been probably, ’73, ‘74. [Lin] And were they held at the river? [Chris] They initially weren't and I passed the place they wanted a boy scout camp, in Comstock Park. But, you know, as I pass that place now, and I look down at that... I don't know how that pow wow was ever held there. Because, unless they built it up in between then and now-- I don't know if there's room. But it was at this old boy scout camp. And it was plenty at that time, room. And it just seemed bigger at the time. Now, it just doesn't seem big enough. [Lin] The Hastings Pow Wow you mentioned was that still held at the same spot on the river. [Chris] Yeah, Charlton Park, I believe so... [Lin] It's a beautiful place. [Chris] Yeah. [Lin] So did your parents get involved in the Native community at all? [Chris] Not particularly, No. 12 | P a g e �[Lin] But they supported you? [Chris] Oh, absolutely. I mean they'd come to pow wows. But I mean they didn't dance or anything like that. I think they had their own things going on too. No, they supported me totally. [Lin] That's good. Growing up in Grand Rapids, did religion play a big part growing up and maneuvering through urban...? [Chris] Actually, uh… My parents went to South Congregational Church and I was part of the church. You know, I went to Sunday school. Like once in a while. Most of the time I got out of it because I was really bored with all that business. I just couldn't relate to the Christian part. Not that it was bad...it just. It just didn't make any sense to me. And actually, after a while I preferred to sit upstairs and listen to the...upstairs of the preacher...the minister. So, and then I remembered they asked me to join the church. You know how they give you a bible and stuff? I just never did. I just never felt that that was where I was supposed to be. And then on one of my birthdays, I would have to go back and… I remember the church. A tornado went through the church. Well, okay… I remember me getting on my bike. Because I couldn't drive at the time. And I got on my bike from where I lived rode it down to the church, and I looked at, it was very sad to see that that tornado literally went right through the worship area. And the rose windows were left standing at the end. And I was glad, seeing all that stained glass smashed all over the pews were all tangled and it was really sad...horrifying. So, after that I really never had interest at all, going back into the church. But my parents did. You know they still came back for a while if their health permitted it. [Lin] Were they disappointed that you didn't join the church? [Chris] I don't think they were disappointed. I was always a little bit of my own thinker. And they were so wonderful in that they let me be what I wanted to be. And if it just wasn't in my constitution to go...it's like, okay. You know, they didn't force me or anything to go. [Lin] That's good. So that wasn't right for you. Where did you find spirituality or your connection to where you are now? [Chris] I had a lot of teachers at different times in my life. Somewhere in Oklahoma. Somewhere here. All of which really are gone now. They were elderly at the time when I was younger. When I was in early twenties they were elderly. Little Luck was one person that I was close with. He'd stop at the house and we'd go searching for...this was when I was in Rockford...we'd go searching for medicines and he'd teach me things. 13 | P a g e �[Lin] The time you had your store, as an adult? [Chris] Yes. This would have been early seventies. [Lin] Okay. [Chris] And Maggie Jackson. She was from Mount Pleasant. She was also a good basket maker too, her hands would hurt when she worked. Because she was quite elderly. When I knew her too. [Lin] So did you take part in any ceremonies or just traditional practices? [Chris] Not formally. Also, being around the Martins. George Martin and Sid. So, I never like went to up north to ceremonies or anything. Not particularly. [Lin] Now we're on to urban life experiences. Generally speaking. So you had mentioned being part of protests up in Saint Ignace. With Moose Pamp, I believe? [Chris] Mhm. [Lin] Were you involved in any other national organizations that focus on civil rights or any of the other political organizations. [Chris] No just-just native based kinds of things. I remember when we did go to-to that protest up in Mackinac. We protested the, there was a gathering. There were a lot of Natives there. There must have been a hundred and some folks gathered for--and that was when they did the reenactment at the fort where our people, not Indians, dress up like Indians and then they reenact for the tourists the takeover fort. And then we also protested on the other side at Saint Ignace. And I remember that was probably the scariest part when the state police came and they had their rifles out and their dogs, to remove us from that property. So, it didn't last long and stuff. And we all dispersed and went back over and gathered at the park across. I supported A.I.M and some of the members. And then of course as I held on to the radio and TV with Wounded Knee and that take over. But then I was back in college, trying to do that...balance. You know, figuring out what am I gonna do for my life. And that kind of thing. So, about that... [Chris] [Lin] Any other A.I.M activities later on...or? In Grand Rapids area? [Chris] Yeah. I'm trying to think who came here. Uh, do you remember who was here? I'm trying to remember names. Uh, Debbie had... 14 | P a g e �[Lin] Dennis Banks. [Chris] Yeah, Dennis Banks was here. So we got to hang out briefly with him at the pow wow. Talk with him. [Lin] During the [INAUDIBLE] or was it before? [Chris] This might have been before. This was quite a while ago. I would say ten years ago? Ten/twelve years ago, maybe? I was trying to think how long it'd been since she'd walked on...So, three years...four years... [Lin] Maybe five? [Chris] Five. So probably six/seven years before that. And then I was on the board of directors too for the North American Indian Center. When that was here...with Levi. And circle other people which I still know. I should have done a time line because I forgot exactly what years I [INAUDIBLE] was... [Lin] Would you say that the North American Indian Council? [Chris] Indian Center. [Lin] Indian Center. [Chris] It was downtown for a while. And then we moved over on to Straight Street. [Lin] Lexington? [Chris] The complex, yeah. And it lasted a few years. [Lin] I mean how is that different from the Inter-tribal Council? Was that before or after? [Chris] That would have been after. Grand Rapids Inter-tribal Council. I was in and out of there. As far as an artist at the time. [Chris] Terry Bussey(?)[INAUDIBLE] had...who… I think she's from up north originally. She has started The Great Lakes Indian Press. And I had illustrated some the of books that people wrote. Unfortunately, they were never published because that was dispersed over there. [Lin] Where are those books? What was it the north... [Chris] Uh, Great Lakes Indian Press. This was when Wag had the place...had the place 15 | P a g e �over there. At the school. Lexington School. [Lin] These books... [Chris] Grand Rapids Inter-tribal Council was what that was called I believe. [Lin] Right. [Chris] And then, as an off shoot from that, there was a Great Lakes Indian Press. Which was a separate, it was connected, but it was separate. And Terry Bussey ran that. A couple books were published. Then they got to these children's books. I was asked to illustrate two, which I did. So, most of the illustrations were done. And then the Inter-tribal dispersed. So whatever happened to those drawings, I don't know. I think Levi picked up being the head over there for a while. And then that didn't work. And so then it was better just to start a whole new Indian Center. And that's when he started the Indian Center downtown here. [Lin] The North American Indian Center? [Chris] Mhm. Yup. And then I was on that board of directors till about the last year. [Lin] You were on board for the North American Indian Center? [Chris] Yep. [Lin] Who were you on the board with? [Chris] Well, let's see. Tony Deal (?), Debbie worked as secretary...See here's the memory thing again… Corton Bates(?), there was a fella named Bob--but I didn't know him. He was actually from like Detroit. He wasn't native. I remember there's quite a few people that would come and go. You know, some would serve for a while and then they would go. Linda...I'm trying to think of the last name. Can't remember right now. [Lin] So what type of activities or services did the North American Indian Center provide? [Chris] We were under the wing of Goodwill, and did they the book keeping. Kinda oversaw the finances and the goings on of that. Some of it was...Unfortunately, we didn't have a tremendous amount of money. But we could help some people out financially. And it was very common to have someone call and say: "Hey, my heats gonna get shut off...Can we get help?" And you know, we'd be able to maybe cover the heat bill, or a new piece of furniture. Somebody didn't have a 16 | P a g e �dresser, or shoes. You know, that kind of thing, small stuff. I mean we couldn't buy somebody a car. But, you know, sometimes just having a hundred bucks worth of groceries helps a lot. There are so many people in need--Native people in need. So that was one of those projects, and then Levi had another fellow that worked that would help people find jobs. [Lin] Was it difficult for Native Americans to find jobs? [Chris] Well yeah, I think it was. Because maybe lack of education in some respects, or addiction. And to hold on to them. But, this fellow was an advocate and would help. So, I think that there was some good done there. [Lin] Can you tell me about any positive experience that made you feel best about being Native American and living in Grand Rapids? [Chris] Well, certainly the camaraderie and the friends and being able to be spiritually connected with other people. And just like knowing this much. Or where I was taught we used cedar too; and a fry pan and a piece of metal. So, it's just nice to be able to use that stuff and not think twice about it. And you have to explain it to somebody. You know, that kind of thing...That's really nice. [Lin] Do you think that there is a greater sense of community now? Or was it better back then? Or is just different? [Chris] It's different because now, with the tribes being recognized again, that has made a difference. You have different tribal members from their different tribes kinda of like with an NHBP, you have that going on that side of town. Ottawa is over here I believe in another building. They have their own things that they have to accomplish. So, back when I grew up we didn't have all those different tribes having that much influence. Almost everybody gathered at Grand Valley Indian Lodge, 'cause that was such a mix of people--Native and non-Native. That was in my time when I grew up nice, because everybody gathered and we learned different things about different people because there were programs. [Chris] So now that you have these different people and everybody's a little bit more separate--then we come together at dances and pow wows. [Lin] Were there any negative experiences being Native in an urban setting? [Chris] Growing up in school I was always darker, my hair was darker. There was all that business. People doing the war whoop. But probably one of the things that set me back was my son's name on his birth-certificate is Two Eagles Marcus. (?) When I was in Oklahoma, when I first registered him for school, when he was in kindergarten. So, we did all the registration. He went to school for a couple 17 | P a g e �weeks, and all of a sudden, the teacher calls me in kind of sheepishly. And she says: "Would you please go back to the office and resign your son in for his schooling?" And I said: "What? We did all that?" She said: "Well, I'm not supposed to tell you this, but they threw all his paperwork away because they thought it was a joke." And those were her exact words. Because of the name, it was a traditional name. So that would have been in the seventies...seventyfour...late seventies. So even then...Then we have this new thing with-- I think it's Facebook. Some of these Native names, traditional names, are getting thrown off because people think they're fake. Including my son, again, got thrown off. He had to redo all of his signing up for... [Lin] So you lived in Tulsa and you brought him back and registered him for Grand Rapids. [Chris] Mhm. [Lin] So where did he go to school? [Chris] He went to Rockford. [Lin] So what was signing him up like? [Chris] Well I signed up with his real name, but then we just called him Ben in school. Which is sad. [Lin] So you change his name? [Chris] Not legally, no. Just a nickname. But his name legally is Two Eagles, and always has been. And he goes by that now. [Lin] Where did Ben come from? [Chris] [Chris] His grandfather [INAUDIBLE] was named Ben. So, we called him Benj when he was little and Ben when he was older. It just cut through everything. And a little kid can't fight back. I remember he was about four and I had let his hair grow really long and it was black. And the kids in our neighborhood rubbed gum in it, and made him cry. Of course, it was down to his waist. He then wanted it all cut off. So that was really upsetting. But, I thought: "He's so young, he doesn't have any tools to fight with. He's just a little kid." So, we did eventually cut his hair off. It was still kind of long, like Jack Kennedy's hair. But, it wasn't down to his waist or anything. [Lin] How did that make you feel cuttin' his hair? 18 | P a g e �[Chris] It was terrible. I cried and cried and cried. That I had to do that. But, I wanted, what I had thought at the time, was best for him. I mean I couldn't be there all the time to scold the other kids. Or to explain to them, to stand guard. I couldn't. I thought: "Well how are we going to make it through this growing up without a lot of scars?" So, that's what we did. I regretted it though, I felt terrible having to cut it. But he wanted it cut. He just came in tears and they had ruined some of his hair too. Why they did it? I can only guess. [Lin] What would be your guess? [Chris] Well, full black hair down to a boy's bottom. So prejudice, I'm sure it was prejudice. [Lin] Are there negative experiences being Native? [Chris] Some here. But we had more problems in Oklahoma. 'Specially some of the small places, western Oklahoma. Maybe not getting waited on in restaurants. [Lin] So you mentioned that there are a larger number of tribes represented in a bigger population. Why do you think that there's more racism down there, when there is such a large number of Native. [Chris] Well they intermix the play between the police. As I learned more I didn't really want my son growing up down there. Because he is very, very Native looking; black hair, brown eyes, and real dark. There were a lot of stories about young men getting into jail for literally nothing. Clashes with the police, especially in some of the smaller towns. The boys never come out of jail. Somehow they're found police say [INAUDIBLE] themselves or something. All kinds of stories like that. I thought that maybe we, at the time, if we did move back that maybe he wouldn't be as immersed in the culture, but he at some point could find his way back to what he wanted. When he was old enough to defend himself. And stand up for himself as far as problems with other people. [Chris] Especially as a young kid, down in Oklahoma we did have racial problems. First of all, the name in school. And, not getting waited on in restaurants--that happened more than once. It really wasn't too long ago when you, if you were Native down there in New Mexico or Oklahoma that you were asked to sit in the back of the restaurant. Not quite up front, you know. [Lin] So he found his way back to his culture? [Chris] Well, he has. He goes by the name Two Eagles now. He runs his business with that name, and he's very well accepted. He's actually memorable to people because he is unusual. So, that turned out well. 19 | P a g e �[Lin] Do you see a shift in the way we are raising our children? Case in point, my mom didn't raise me in the native way and probably thought the same. We are given the tools that you need to grow up, you'd find your way back and regain some of those things. You see a shift in that now a days? [Chris] Not so much here. It's partly just having access to cultural things. If this were Oklahoma City there's a dance some place every Friday night. Yeah, it’s just a Friday night thing. Not a two day pow wow. But, it's just to hear those drums. And just to be able to get out there and dance informally. If you want to dress with everything, you know your dance clothes. Or if you just want to shall dance. I mean it's just--be there! Be part of it! Have a fifty-fifty raffle and just be part of all of that. [Lin] Huh, that's interesting. An informal gathering. Where I think we have so many formal gatherings. [Chris] Right. I believe some of these are put on by the Oklahoma Pow Wow Club But it's still, "so and so is going to have a couple drums at this gymnasium and you just show up. There is a lot of that out there. Especially, in some of the Bartlesville. Next week is [INAUDIBLE]. Or next week is, you know, some gymnasium. [Lin] I think we need to do that here. [Chris] I think that would be great! Especially on New Year’s Eve. That's a tough one for Natives. Do you end up at a bar? Where can you go where you don't have alcohol? [Lin] Right [Chris] You can still have an awful lot of fun. A lot of food. You can't have Natives without food. [Lin] There use to be a Y in Grand Rapids. But now I think the New Year’s sobriety pow wows are quite a distance. And New Year’s Eve-- Well there's a toss-up. [Chris] Yeah, we have that to contend with in Oklahoma. I talk about Oklahoma a lot. You know, I was there for four years. You have a little more-- You well have some influence from the Osage they have there. Tribal dances all in June. And each community hosts one dance. You know, that's a big deal. And they start getting ready years before--when you see an Osage drum passing it is so beautiful and there is a lot of pageantry to it. It's amazing. They bring horses up to the dance arena and give them away. With broad cloth blankets and hundred- 20 | P a g e �dollar bills attached to them. I've seen it. It's amazing. [Lin] So if you could summarize into one to three highlights about who you are as an urban Native, what would you want to pass on to the next generations? [Chris] I think that the red road is a good road. But it's a hard road. Especially if you want to remain traditional. I've seen somethings change that are supposed to be tradition that are different now, not so much for the good. I do have my own personal things that drive me crazy. Such as, I look around and see dream catchers everywhere. The early ones were so simple, and made correctly. I mean when I can go to the local gas station and buy a dream catcher lighter for a cigarette. It just kind of waters the whole thing down. And it makes me sad. [Lin] What other things do you see that have been appropriated? [Chris] Probably the use of wearing skirts as opposed to pants. Skirts with women and traditional things. I think when we need to wear a skirt, we need to wear a skirt. And not hid pants under it. I've heard people say: "Well that's just progress." Well to me that's not. It isn't. It defeats the whole purpose of wearing a skirt in our traditional ceremonies. So, that's just a couple things. Some of the culture things that are changed-- There's a natural way to change. We've changed culturally because of materials available, and I'm just speaking of dance clothes. Any cultural progresses with what's available. You know, its stores and trade. Some of it's okay with me. I don't want to sound really snotty about the whole thing. There are some things that have changed because of laziness and some things that naturally change. And it's part of the natural cultural change as it's changed from two-hundred years ago--what we use. There's different examples of it. I think a culture can change without being rude to the culture that came before, some of the traditions that came before. I guess what's coming to my mind is with our little boys and young men when they wear their roaches. We always had roach spreaders for [INAUDIBLE] bone, and then silver. Some local boys used CD's as a roach spreaders. I think that's neat. Because that's part of what they grew up with and that's not insulting the old ways. [Chris] That's just change and that's an evolutionary thing. And it's natural. But there are some things that, to me, are like a slap in the face. Like the use of dream catchers every place you turn around. And they're made the wrong way, they look wrong, they're not made with any prayers. That hurts me to see that. [Lin] You mentioned the red road. Could you clarify what the red road is? [Chris] It's probably more traditional. Not everything is easy. There's is a lot of things in Native culture that are easy but they're good. When we start off talking today and in other places. You know we start with off prayers. We start off with burning 21 | P a g e �cedar, smoking people off. It takes extra time, it takes someone else to do it. It takes someone puttin' themselves there to actually doctor people. When you smoke people off. It takes extra time and not everybody wants to take that time. It doesn't fit in with the schedule, so to speak. Probably the sobriety. So many Native people are depressed and falling back on addictions is very prevalent. With poverty or family problems. It's more so in the Native culture. With suicides and addiction. So that's hard to pull out of that. That take a person that really wants to, and somebody that really can help them. A lot of spiritual things have to go along with that. I hope that people can pull out if they want to. I hope that when they do there is somebody there to help them, pull them up. [Lin] Do you think that there is support in the Grand Rapids area? [Chris] Yes, I do. It might not be the easiest to find some days, but I do think that there is support. There's certain individuals even that you know we all could come in contact with will take the time to talk with you or to counsel people. They don't necessarily have to be through a program. You know, just certain people in my past. Who took the time to counsel me, or say a good word. Uplift somebody in some way, and not dwell on negative things. But the good things and the positive things. [Lin] So is there anything I didn't ask you that you want to talk about and share? [Chris] Probably when I'm driving home I'll think of a hundred. [Lin] Well, you mentioned positive things about being Native in the urban area. What would you say would be some of the positives about living in the urban area? [Chris] Well, I think through some of the- We're lucky here in Grand Rapids we have access to so many pow wows that are close. Both at the rez up in Mount Pleasant. We have Fulton. And then we have some of the centers like in HBP. We have the Odawa, Ottawas, and so tribal members can see count through those agencies. [Chris] And HBP, the clinic for instance, with behavioral health and for medical help you just have to be Native to go. You don't have to be in that tribe. Which is a really great mission for that tribe to put out that money to help, and get the grants. That's a lot of work. So, I think that those are positive things, if city Indians can find that those exist. And be able to get there and work with those programs. That support, I hope, many people. Because when I first grew up here in Grand Rapids none of those were available here. None of those programs. They were in Oklahoma, back in the seventies. But know that there here through Grand Rapids that's great. 22 | P a g e �[Lin] So, anything else? Like you said, you'll remember on your way home. [Chris] I'm sure… I can talk for hours sometime. I wasn't sure...hopefully I've helped you with… you know...talking and being a guinea pig. I don't mind. [Lin] I want to thank you for being with us today and sharing. [Chris] My pleasure. [Lin] And, I'm sure we'll so some follow up. A very interesting story. Do you have any suggestions on who we should interview? [Chris] Well, I would think Jeff Davis would be a good person. And Betty if possible. There are a few people at the clinic. Roslyn Johnson, the Head of the Health Department. She's from First Nation. There again, there is somebody that's just starting to think about traditional healing over there. There again someone that has to juggle the bureaucracy of the laws of health care and all the things that involve giving somebody a shot, even. Plus balancing the traditional ways, too, over there. Maybe having traditional healers come in, so there is person that has to work with both. Both heads of the spectrum. I hope that with some people, mainly, well with everyone, but mainly, probably city Indians, is that there is a balance there between the traditional ways and trying to function in an Indian society and follow those rules too. Which, to me it means that internal should even be more of a presence in their life, and how to live two roles. Like a turtle does, more meaningful. When you understand what's behind that. Because most of the Indians have to balance. Tremendous balance. Walking up, following the rules... Also, following traditional practices even. Having things in the car that may be things hanging from the mirror and stuff that might not be acceptable to somebody else. But is very traditional to Native people. Or, dress. Something people wear might not… to Native people we need to do that, to wear that, or have that, but to outside world that's not a good thing. I have known of situations, not me personally, it didn't happen to, but where we have burned smudge and somebody thought it was marijuana. [Chris] To Native people smudge is such a smell that is so practical, it's always there it's spiritual. It's part of your life. It's not anything bad. But if one isn't use to it, you could get in trouble. That would be a couple comments I would make. [Lin] Alright, well thank you. [Chris] You're welcome. [Lin] Belinda Bardwell, signing off. 23 | P a g e � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gi-gikinomaage-min Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Native American Advisory Council Grand Valley State University. Kustche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Interviews with members of Grand Rapids' urban Native American population collected as part of the Gi-gikinomaage-min Project: Defend Our History, Unlock Your Spirit. Translated from Anishinaabemowin, the original language of this area, Gi-gikinomaage-min means "We are all teachers." This is the name our project team choose to convey to the Native American community that through our stories and experiences, we are all teachers to someone. As we share those stories, we are allowing for our next generations to experience the past. Grand Rapids’ Native American community grew dramatically in the last half of the 20th century as a result of a little-known federal program that still impacts American Indian lives today. Called the Urban Relocation Program, it created one of the largest mass movements of Indians in American history. The full scope of this massive social experiment and its impact on multiple generations of Native Americans remains largely undocumented and unexplored. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015/2016 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Gi-gikinomaage-min Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Indians of North America Indians of North America--Michigan Indians of North America--Education Potawatomi Indians Bode'wadmi Ojibwa Indians Anishinaabe Navajo Indians Dine'e Cherokee Indians Tsagali Aniyunwiya Archaeology Mound-builders Hopewellian culture Indian arts--North America Personal narrativse Grand Rapids (Mich.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-10 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-10_Stone_Christine_Marcus_0215 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stone, Christine Marcus Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-02-15 Title A name given to the resource Christine Marcus Stone interview (video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Christine Marcus Stone is a painter of Navajo, Scottish, and English descent, who was born in Tuscon, Arizona and moved to Michigan at a young age. In her interview, she disucsses her arts education, her personal and family history, and the Grand Rapids Native community. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Bardwell, Belinda (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Navajo Indians Dine'e Personal narrativse Grand Rapids (Mich.) Indians of North America Indians of North America--Michigan Indian arts--North America Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Gi-gikinomaage-min Project Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2a587ad7de6de59140462c0d026cbea8.mp4 7ab442181df26008b0b0694b4a9e0be5 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/aef0057db93a90e196f96f529795709e.pdf eb075fb7820746cff3aba1f9b5be2979 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Ron Story (00:46:19) (00:35) Background Information • Ron was born in Lowell, Michigan • He went to school there and graduated in 1950 • During school Ron worked as a mechanic • He received his Associates Degree in business from Davenport College • In September of 1952 Ron was drafted into the Army • He had expected to be drafted, but was fortunate to be sent to Europe rather than Korea (2:35) Basic Training • This consisted of difficult long hours • It was hard, physical work with calisthenics, obstacle courses, rifle training, military history, and military discipline • There were all types of people from all over put into one unit • The trainers were all very mean, but that was their job • They had to go out on hikes into the middle of no where, hauling all their supplies • They would hike for miles and then sleep in tents • They had to carry 40-pound packs with their M-1 rifles, walking about 8 miles up hill for three days (7:10) Friends in the Service • Ron made a lot of friends and still keeps in contact with many of them (7:50) Europe • Ron was stationed in France because Europe still needed occupation forces and assistance in containing the Soviets • They felt that war would break out again any day • Ron worked in a fort that was still reinforced from World War Two • He had trained for clerical work in Fort Riley, Kansas • Ron worked with really old typewriters, and kept track of Army personnel records (12:35) Activities • Ron worked near a medical training and also a cook training area • He helped keep track of lots of medical records and was able to eat really well • Ron spent a lot of time reading, especially Time Magazine • He generally had the weekends off and would travel on a train to Paris • During time on leave, Ron traveled all over Europe to Spain, Italy, Britain, Germany, Holland, Denmark, and Switzerland �(16:55) Paris • The city was very modern with lots of clubs and very nice art galleries • There was wonderful and historical architecture • Italy was his favorite place to travel, visiting Rome, Pompeii, Cyprus, Venice… • He felt that traveling so much by himself really helped him mature (20:20) The Trip Across America • Ron was officially processed for the Army in Fort Custer, Battle Creek, MI • He then went to Fort Riley, Kansas on a train for basic training • He had a short time on leave to visit his family • Ron then went to Camp Kilmer in NJ for short while and then headed to Manhattan • They then boarded a troop ship for Europe • They crossed the English Channel and went to Germany • Ron was offered a position either in Germany or France and he picked France • He was stationed in La Rochelle on the Atlantic coast (26:00) Living Quarters in France • Many of the other men had lots of family problems they had to deal with • At home, some of them had children and a wife • There were problems with sick children and dying relatives • There were many people in the living quarters that were hard to live with • Ron sent many letters home to his family and received about three letters back a week (29:40) The End of Ron’s Service: September 1954 • Ron was kept in the Reserves for another 6 years • He began working for Berger Chevrolet • He then worked for a bank in Lowell for three years • Ron transferred to a bank in Ionia until he retired (31:10) Lessons from the Army • Ron learned to deal with all types of people • He became more compassionate and considerate of others • Ron saw many people that could not handle their military experience and they turned to alcohol instead • He had lots of time to think about his future and set goals • The GI Bill really helped improve US Education, the economy, and the standard of living • The GI Bill helped pay for Ron’s education at Michigan State University ������� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context StoryR Title A name given to the resource Story, Ronald D. (Interview outline, video, and papers), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Story, Ronald D. Description An account of the resource Ron Story was born in Lowell, Michigan and graduated from high school in 1950. Ron was drafted into the Army in 1952 and feels that he was very fortunate that he was sent to Europe rather than Korea. Ron was stationed in La Rochelle, France on the Atlantic Coast. He noted that they were concerned about possible Soviet attack. He traveled extensively in Europe, returned to the US in 1954, and served for six years in the reserves. Photographs appended to interview outline. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McNaughton, Jane (interviewer) Lowell Area Historical Museum (Lowell, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-05-31 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1372cf2399aadd00cc8554c5121269ec.mp4 1159a2c926ce1e26cfb1d28e9e9f6986 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/102621eba5b91281045376d241b10581.pdf 75c36561de9a1e2aecb980956ed21a4a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Donald Stout World War II 1 hour 1 minute 49 seconds (00:00:13) Early Life -Born in Muskegon, Michigan on July 20, 1923 -Grew up in Muskegon -Father worked at Continental Motors -He was able to keep his job during the Great Depression -Had to do side jobs to support the family -Grew vegetables on a plot of land -He was able to work various jobs as a teenager during the Depression (00:01:37) Michigan National Guard – Michigan -Didn’t complete high school because of enlisting in the National Guard at seventeen -Joined the National Guard on June 30, 1939 -Served as an infantryman -Went up to Camp Grayling, Michigan during the summer for two weeks of training -Trained at the Muskegon Armory once a week -Learned basic Army maneuvers at Camp Grayling -Didn’t pay much attention to the war in Europe (00:03:58) Michigan National Guard- Camp Beauregard, Louisiana -On October 15, 1940 the National Guard units were mobilized -He was in G Company of the 126th Infantry of the 32nd Division -His unit was sent down to Camp Beauregard, Louisiana -He had a car and was allowed to drive down there -Road trip took about two or three days -Camp Beauregard was primitive at the time -Consisted of basic tents to sleep in -Stayed there about a year (00:05:33) Michigan National Guard- Camp Livingston, Louisiana -Built a new camp called Camp Livingston and the unit was moved there -Slightly more sophisticated than Camp Beauregard -More stable housing than tents -Given infantry training to prepare for combat -Used some equipment from World War I -Eventually started to get more modernized uniforms -Started off with the Springfield 1903 model rifle and then transitioned to the M1 Garand -Over time more men were being added to the regiment -At the time he was seventeen years old when his unit was mobilized -Later on was made a platoon sergeant when he was only eighteen years old -Allowed to go to town during downtime -Camps were close to Alexandria and Pineville, Louisiana -His unit took part in a war game with another division while in Louisiana �(00:09:33) Overview of Start of the War & Deployment -After Pearl Harbor his unit was sent down to New Orleans -Ordered to protect the industrial canal and the Lake Pontchartrain area -After New Orleans they were sent to Fort Devens, Massachusetts -Plan was to prepare them to be sent to fight in Europe -His unit wound up getting sent over to San Francisco -More soldiers were needed in the Pacific than in Europe -From San Francisco they were deployed to Australia -Sailed over during the Battle of the Coral Sea -Had to sail around where the battle was taking place to avoid getting attacked -Landed in Port Adelaide, Australia (00:10:40) Start of the War -Remembers hearing about the attack on Pearl Harbor on a Sunday night -He was heading back to base from Alexander, Louisiana -Heard the news on the radio -When he got back to Camp Livingston the unit was being prepared to be moved to New Orleans -Stayed in New Orleans for about three months -Tension started to dissipate when it became apparent no further attacks were coming (00:11:54) Deployment to Australia -After being rerouted to San Francisco from Fort Devens they were kept on fairgrounds -Kept busy by getting ready to ship out -He was afraid of being torpedoed by a Japanese submarine en route -Couldn’t swim -Went aboard the SS Lurline -First voyage as a troopship -Lucky enough to get assigned to a stateroom -Whole division was onboard -He didn’t get seasick on the voyage over -Had to get used to the ship shaking in rough weather -Took part in a “ceremony” when the ship crossed the Equator (00:15:33) Arrival in Australia -After arriving in Port Adelaide they received more infantry training -They were prepared to fight in Europe, but not in jungles -Given advice from Australian soldiers on how to fight the Japanese -Remembers that Australia was like America at the turn of the 20th century -Used horses and wagons to unload ships -Railroads were far more basic than anything in America -After Port Adelaide they were sent over to Brisbane -Established Camp Tambourine there -He was placed on forward detail for Company G -After Sergeant Gerald Cable was killed the camp was renamed: Camp Cable -The training they received in Australia wasn’t very in depth -Just general information about preparing for jungle warfare (00:18:20) New Guinea Campaign and the Owen Stanley Range -Sent up to New Guinea on a troop ship in September 1942 -Landed in Port Moresby, New Guinea �-Moved up to the Owen Stanley Mountain Range -Idea was to go into the mountains and deny Japanese access to key trail -Unit he was a part of was made famous for this march through the mountains -Nicknamed the “Ghost Mountain Boys” -Companies went into the mountains a day apart from each other -Rations were dropped into the mountains every four days -Had to store rations in their socks to keep them dry -Remembers that the rain started at about 3 PM every day and forced them to stop -Used the opportunity to eat dinner -Worked together to pool rations to make them last longer -Whole march took forty two days -Physically trying march (one of the most harrowing in American military history) -Some men were able to handle it better than others -Fair amount of soldiers got sick along the way -Had to leave them behind and hope the following company would pick them up -Used New Guinea natives to carry their weapons, ammunition, and supplies for them (00:25:26) Buna-Gona, New Guinea -After leaving the Owen Stanley Range they moved into Buna-Gona -Before reaching Buna-Gona they had to cross a major river -Wound up extremely close to a Japanese outpost -Machine gun battle ensued -Eventually led to an American bayonet charge -Allowed them to overrun and defeat the Japanese soldiers there -Took heavy losses during the engagement due to bad military intelligence -Made camp at the outpost and a few days later he was wounded by incoming artillery fire -Black soldier helped him back to an aid station -Natives helped get him to an airfield and from there he was flown to Port Moresby (00:29:50) Return and Reorganization in Australia -Loaded onto a modified Flying Fortress that needed repairs and was carrying wounded -During the trip back to Australia he was selected to be a gunner on the plane -Landed in Townsville, Australia -Prior to their landing they started having severe technical problems -Engine was starting to go out and the landing gear wouldn’t go down -Landing gear had to be lowered manually by one of the crewmen -Sent to a resort area called Coolangatta, Australia after leaving the hospital at Townsville -Spent a while there recovering from leg wounds and relaxing -Got reattached to his outfit again after they returned from New Guinea -After the campaign they had gone from over 3000 soldiers to just over 500 soldiers -Didn’t spend a lot of time in Australia -Just had to get reorganized and back up to combat strength (00:34:30) Return to New Guinea -After regrouping in Australia the unit was sent back to New Guinea -Made landfall at Aitape and established a defensive position -After getting reestablished on New Guinea he was assigned to guard an outpost -Received word that he was being promoted to 1st Sergeant at Battalion Headquarters -Decided to go back to headquarters on his own �-A Japanese patrol managed to follow him back to base and a firefight ensued -Landing at Aitape consisted of heavy shelling from the Navy to soften up the defenses -After they landed and started to move up the beach then the Japanese would open fire -Fortunately their landing at New Guinea wasn’t too intense -Still took enemy fire, but nothing too dramatic (00:37:40) Becoming 1st Sergeant and Details of Pacific Campaign -As first sergeant he was the top sergeant of his company -Did most of the paperwork for his company -Acted as an assistant to his company commander -Led to him not having to go on as many patrols as he had before st -Became the 1 Sergeant after the landing at Aitape -Eventually the unit was sent over to Morotai -Very small island part of Netherlands East Indies -He encountered very little fighting there -After reorganizing at Australia the first time the unit never returned to Australia -As the war went on the battalion continued to shrink in size due to mounting losses -Didn’t receive very many replacements because the war in Europe took priority (00:42:29) Philippines Campaign-Leyte -Travelled to the Philippines as a part of a large convoy -Landed at the island of Leyte -Didn’t land during the Battle of Leyte Gulf -Does remember Japanese planes attacking American ships though -His ship was able to make it through unscathed -Remembers that when they landed on the beach it was raining -Everything was a mess from the bombardment -Japanese had been pushed off the beach into the hills -Took part in breaking the back of the Japanese defenses there -Remembers seeing dead bodies on the side of the road and contaminating water -Japanese tried to break through their lines on Leyte multiple times -On one occasion the black soldier that helped him in New Guinea was killed -Didn’t have artillery or air support -Jungle made it too difficult to properly pick out targets -Relied heavily on smaller mortars for support -Learned to be on the alert at all times (00:46:53) Philippines Campaign-Luzon -After Leyte they were moved over to the island of Luzon -Encountered Japanese resistance in the hills -Not as swampy as Leyte had been -Japanese were extremely dug into the hills -Had to go up to fortifications and plant explosives to destroy Japanese defenses -He would often do it himself to lead by example -Worked with the Filipinos as translators -Never encountered larger civilian populaces while he was in the Philippines (00:49:53) End of the War -In July 1945 he left the unit and on July 12, 1945 he was discharged from the National Guard -He had the most “points” (rank/commendations/combat) so he could go home �-Got sent to Fort Sheridan, Illinois and was discharged from there -Offered a chance to reenlist there -Decided not to test his luck and he left the service -Got back to the United States by way of a liberty ship -Landed in San Francisco -Got escorted out of the Philippines warzone by a U.S. destroyer (00:51:50) Going Home and Life after the War -After being discharged the Army paid for him to go home -Went back to Muskegon, Michigan on a Greyhound bus -Stayed home and rested for a couple weeks -Got a job at Continental Motors -After two weeks got laid off because the war ended -Decided to join the police force -Stayed in despite the low wages at the time (00:53:04) Rejoining the Michigan National Guard -After the 126th Infantry Regiment was reorganized he decided to rejoin the National Guard -Got to go to Fort Benning, Georgia for training and was given a commission -Retired as a major in the 2nd Battalion in 1968 -Retired due to scheduling conflicts between being a police officer and a soldier -Remembers being sent to Detroit during the riots to provide security and order -Different type of fighting because you didn’t know who your enemy was -Got stationed inside of a school -Conducted patrols in the city during the riots helping to restore law and order (00:56:08) Other Details about Buna-Gona & Becoming a 1st Sergeant -When his unit charged the Japanese outpost at Buna-Gona he was recovering from malaria -The way he got wounded at Buna-Gona was essentially a total chance occurrence -Changed position in a foxhole and shrapnel hit his knees instead of his stomach -After returning to New Guinea the outpost he was at was extremely remote and isolated -He and the other soldiers had no connection to the rear for support -No radio and no transportation -Expectation from command was to retreat if necessary and not engage the enemy -Had to ignore the expeditionary Japanese patrols so as not to give away their position (01:01:18) Reflections on Service -Military service made him grow up in a hurry -The way he had been raised by his parents helped him to survive what he experienced � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_StoutD1598V Title A name given to the resource Stout, Donald (Interview outline and video), 2014 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-06-06 Description An account of the resource Donald Stout was born in Muskegon, Michigan on July 20, 1923. He grew up in Muskegon and enlisted in the Michigan National Guard on June 30, 1939. In October 1940 his unit, G Company of the 126th Infantry of the 32nd Division was mobilized and sent to Camp Beauregard, Louisiana and later to Camp Livingston, Louisiana to train to prepare for an American involvement in the war in Europe. After Pearl Harbor the unit was sent to Fort Devens, Massachusetts for further training until it was decided that they were needed more in the Pacific Theatre. They were sent first to Australia and later to New Guinea in September 1942 where his unit crossed the Owen Stanley Mountain Range leading to them being nicknamed the "Ghost Mountain Boys." He participated in the Buna-Gona Campaign in New Guinea and was wounded there. After healing and rejoining his unit they went back to New Guinea. After New Guinea was liberated his unit was sent up to participate in the invasion of the Philippines at Luzon and Leyte. In July 1945 he had enough points to go home and returned to the United States and was discharged at Fort Sheridan, Illinois. He worked briefly for Continental Motors until the end of the war and from there joined the police force. After the 126th Infantry Regiment was reorganized he decided to reenlist in the Michigan National Guard. During that time he was sent to Detroit to be a part of the military presence in the city helping to restore order during the race riots. He retired from the National Guard in 1968 with the rank of major. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stout, Donald Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. National Guard Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/af4609a73b6175f83de9b904d5a3aa1f.mp4 5ddc12f23f87c26652e00638a27fbff2 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fb88994b7df056b343654334768581d2.pdf f983a8d6f26990c303d6ed2883c5d9d2 PDF Text Text Leonard Straayer (53:17) (00:08) Background Information • Leonard was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on March 30, 1918 • Leonard was the 14th and youngest child in his family • His father was a painter and a paper hanger • Len had 3 brothers that served in WWI • He graduated from Creston High School in 1936 • After high school he worked at a furniture factory and a phone company • Len was drafted on April 24, 1941 (4:25) Training • He trained for one year and expected to be discharged • In December of 1941 Len was sent to Fort Benning, Georgia where he heard about Pearl Harbor • Right after he was drafted he was sent to Camp Livingston, Louisiana • Len was assigned to the Service Company in the 126th infantry regiment as a truck driver • More than half of his company were draftees • He remembers the dry red clay, marching and gas mask drills at Camp Livingston • Len spent about 8 weeks in basic training and then was assigned a truck • He was sent to Fort Benning, Georgia for 3 months and then moved to Oakland, California for 3 weeks (13:19) Deployment • From Oakland Len boarded the SS Lurline • It took them 21 days to get to Australia; there wasn’t much fresh water and he did not get sea sick • They landed in Adelaide, south Australia • Len then moved to Camp Cable outside of Brisbane �(20:15) New Guinea • He took a liberty ship to Port Moresby, New Guinea • They hauled the E company as far as they could up the Owen Stanley Range • Then they loaded K rations from their trucks onto plane • Len didn’t really know what was going on in the rest of New Guinea • He was asked to fix some trucks because one of the mechanics was killed and received a rating for it • Then Len was moved to the Mechanics Company, which was rare because draftees weren’t supposed to get promotions (27:18) Replacements • Len went back to Camp Cable for rest and to get reinforcements • He was one of the many who got malaria • They went back to New Guinea and went to Milne Bay, Morotai and Saidor • There were lots of bombings from Japanese planes at night • On one occasion he had 5 of his 10 tires blown out by a bomb • He saw some Japanese POWs that were pretty beat up (37:50) Philippines • They landed at Leyte, Philippines • The 7th Calvary were the first to go in and they were 2nd • It rained most of the time • Len was only there for 25 days and his orders came through because he had enough points to go home (40:31) Back to the US • He missed his ship back to the US and had to go back on the SS Lurline the next day • Len got back in February and was sent to Miami, Florida for R & R �• He was then sent to a camp in Illinois and then to Fort Custer, Michigan to be a guard for German POWs • He drove back and forth from Fort Custer to a camp in Coloma delivering food and supplies • They also had to finger print thousands of Germans and send them all over the US (47:11) Discharge • Len got married about a month after his discharge • He tried to go back to work at Western Electric, but they said the only work they had was in Missouri or Alaska • So Len went back to work at the furniture company he had worked at and became a partner • The company then got into doing office dividers and really increased in size • Len retired from the company at 60 years old � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context StraayerL Title A name given to the resource Straayer, Leonard (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Straayer, Leonard Description An account of the resource Leonard Straayer was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on March 30, 1918. He was drafted in 1941, shortly after graduating from high school. Leonard was assigned to a service company in the 126th infantry and drove trucks. He was first sent to South Australia and then to New Guinea. In New Guinea he helped haul the E company up the Owen Stanley Range and loaded k rations on to planes to be air dropped. Then he was moved up to a mechanics company and went to places such as Milne Bay, Morotai and Saidor. Leo was then sent to the Philippines, but only spent 25 days there and was sent home because he had enough points. He spent the rest of his time helping out with German POWs at Fort Custer, Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-09-17 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/957b50095121c199549955baef2761de.mp4 123c2ef0125975c5afb54362ab5f9e35 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/86a50423e30cdbb8f03a71c8c617a2ba.pdf a8ed17d1e91f7c410b0fcf81c0e8b638 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II Name of Interviewee: Wesley Strehlau Length of interview (0:10:13) (00:00) Background Served in World War II in the U.S. Navy as a second class water tender. (00:05) Born December 14, 1926 in Detroit, MI. (00:31) Had one brother and five sisters. He was the second oldest. Describes what it was like to grow up with a big family during the Depression. (00:45) Enlisted in the Navy on his 18th birthday because he didn’t want to be drafted into the army. Served on minority crews for about three years. (01:46) Chose the Navy because he wanted a good place to eat, sleep, and learn. (02:16)( 02:28) Service in the United States Learned how to operate and repair machinery. Thought it was very beneficial. (02:28) Went to boot camp after first joining the Navy. Then he went to eight weeks of special training. (03:16) Boarded the U.S.S Laffey and in Seattle, Washington. The ship had been hit before by seven kamikazes and four bombs and was in the Seattle shipyard for repairs at the time. (03:23) Worked on the ship during the day. At night, he joined the Union and repaired other ships in the shipyard. (03:43) Took shakedown crews to San Diego, CA where they went on air craft duty. (04:22) (04:39) Service in the Pacific Hit another ship while leaving the harbor to leave for Pearl Harbor. One man on the other ship was killed and their ship had to return for further repairs. (04:39) After the ship had been repaired, they departed to begin their service in the Pacific as the war was ending (05:03) Didn’t entertain themselves because they were always on guard duty. These responsibilities included monitoring the boilers. (05:14) Kept in touch with family through letters. Was able to have leave and go home to visit. (06:19) During his three years of service, they went from port to port to Australia. (06:47) Participated in atomic bomb tests in 1946. (07:04) Brought the ship back to the United States in 1947 where it was decommissioned and put in the reserve fleet. From the reserve fleet, the ship was brought back into usage for the Vietnam and Korean Wars. (07:50) Was discharged at this time. (08:34) (08:40) Post Service �Returned to his job as an apprentice draftsman for four years after being discharged. (08:40) Still stays in touch with the men he served with and attends reunions regularly. (09:11) Recalls that it wasn’t difficult to adjust to regular life. Upon discharged he gave himself one day off and then worked until retirement. (09:30) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context StrehlauW Title A name given to the resource Strehlau, Wesley K. (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Strehlau, Wesley K. Description An account of the resource Wesley Strehlau was born on December 14, 1926 in Detroit, MI. He served in World War II in the U.S. Navy as a second class water tender. During his three years of service, his responsibilities included operating and repairing machinery. He traveled from port to port to Australia where he participated in atomic bomb tests. He was discharged in 1947 and returned to work as an apprentice draftsman. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ward, Ciera (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-05-31 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b158bcca4300bb80974895c12fe0ae0b.mp4 3d3e5144f121bc249b6a83b61b3b5ff2 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/74700e6f485e7eebadede13ae9fc9314.pdf 69a1f9ce1c795123e8f6e6dda062b226 PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW Carl Strom Born: 1921 Resides: Grand Rapids, Michigan Interviewed by: Frank Boring Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, September 4, 2008 Interviewer: “ Carl, let’s begin with the basics. If you could just say your name, where you were born and when you were born.” My name is Carl Strom and I was born right here in Grand Rapids in 1921. Interviewer: “What was your early schooling like?” Basic traditional city elementary education and then I went into high school in the seventh grade and graduated from Central High School here in Grand Rapids. Interviewer: “What was family life like? What was your father doing?” My father was in the oil business at the time and was drilling oil wells and for a period of time there during the depression, things were very tight and we had a hard time making it, but finally he got lucky and then the family prospered from there on. Interviewer: “Now tell us a little bit more about your father’s background in terms of—he eventually influenced you in your future career so, tell us a little bit more about his—previous to this time.” Well, dad was raised on a farm in northern Michigan, up in the Central Lake/Bellaire area, and he came to Grand Rapids in about 1910—1908, and met my mother, married her and he went to work for the GR&I, Grand Rapids and Indiana Railroad and at the same time he joined the National Guard in Grand Rapids here. 1:45 He eventually was promoted to a 2nd Lieutenant and then he went with the guard to Waco, Texas and to 1 �the boarder area. This was the time of the Poncho Villa thing, although the 32nd division of the National Guard was not involved with Poncho Villa, they were down there and they went through their training down there and he was appointed the division bayonet instructor. 2:25 He went to a special school and then came back and taught bayonet fighting to the division and then he was promoted to 1st Lieutenant and in 1916 they came back to Michigan and they went to the Upper Peninsula for the copper mine strikes, he was involved in that, and then they came back to Grand Rapids and eventually were shipped over to France. 2:55 Interviewer: “This is World War 1.” World War 1, yes 1917, 1918 is when they arrived in France. Interviewer: “It should also be noted that he was part of the, we want to call it for this area, the “Red Arrow Division.” Yes, the 32nd was the “Red Arrow Division”. The earned the nick-name “Red Arrow Division” in France because the German’s showed this on all of their maps that they captured, the red arrow where 32nd division had broken through the German lines. 3:29 Dad was a company commander there, his best buddy, Carl Johnson, was a reporter for the Grand Rapids, Herald, I believe at the time, and was a 2nd Lieutenant under my dad. My dad was company commander of “M Company”. 3:52 Carl Johnson was killed and he was the first officer in his regiment killed and when I was born in 1921, he named me after Carl Johnson. Dad went on to win the “Distinguished Service Cross” and got a personal commendation from General Pershing and became Battalion Commander of the battalion from Grand Rapids and came home with them. 4:20 Interviewer: So, when you finished up with high school, where did you go from 2 �there?” From high school I went, well basically, I went to college at Grand Rapids Junior College. I was studying petroleum engineering and the war broke out and my future wife and I decided that we would go ahead and get married and then I would go ahead—that I would enlist. 4:50 Interviewer: “Let’s go back for just a moment, when did you first hear about Pearl Harbor?” We were driving home from Detroit with my mother and we heard it on the car radio that Pearl Harbor had been bombed and we took the opportunity at that time, my wife and I decided we would not wait, we would go ahead and get married and basically start two wars at once. 5:16 Interviewer: “So, were you drafted? Did you enlist? What happened?” I went down to the draft board and volunteered and I was placed in a V12 volunteer classification, which meant I was not drafted really, then about three weeks later I received notice to come down and to report. 5:46 Interviewer: “So, what was the process after that? You got married.” We got married and I took about a three-month hiatus and then I went down and volunteered. Interviewer: “I guess I am a little confused in terms of how that works. You volunteered initially, then you got married, then you were able to take three months off?” No, we got married and took some time off and then I went down in July, I already had my draft notice and volunteered, then three weeks later they called me and said,” We 3 �need you”. 6:29 Interviewer: “Now, what options did you have? Air Force, Marine, of course there is no Air Force, there was the Army Air Corps, but what were your choices?” At that time quite a group of us were shipped to Fort Custer—Camp Custer, and the group that I was with, which was quite a large group from all over the state of Michigan, we were informed that we would be assigned to the air force ground crew, which is not what I wanted. Interviewer: “This was actually the Army Air Corps?” Yes, at the time, the Army Air Corps. Interviewer: “And what was your reaction and what did you do about it?” Well, during my schooling, I had four years of ROTC and was raised to Cadet Captain, I had four summers of citizen military training camp at Camp Custer and I always wanted to be in the infantry. And therefore, I called my father who had influence in Grand Rapids and in Lansing, and told him that I wanted infantry and they were putting me in the Air Corps. and the next morning I got a call to come to headquarters at camp Custer and a colonel there said, “I understand you want to be in the infantry”? And I said, “yes sir”. And he said, “OK, you’re in the infantry”. 7:57 It was that simple. Interviewer: “You made a comment earlier about how when you first told me that, I thought he was going to say, “Are you a lunatic”? Wanting to go in the infantry instead of the Air Corps. So now lets go into—you’re formally in the infantry, what was the first step? You went to basic training I take it?” Well, they shipped us from—the ones of us who were going to the infantry—they shipped us by train, it took a thirty hour trip in old railroad cars, with no beds or anything, 4 �down to Macon, Georgia where we were met by trucks and taken to Camp Wheeler, Georgia, which was a basic training center and there were about ten thousand troops there training. I was assigned to a company there and we had a thirteen-week basic training course. 8:59 Interviewer: “This is what you would picture—barracks, chow line?” Yes, we had the barracks, we had the chow line and we had the sergeants who were on our cases and trained us—kept on our cases. Interviewer: “It’s interesting, now here you are from Michigan, I’m assuming you never traveled outside of Michigan before this time, you’re now in the Deep South and these drill instructors were experienced, of course, southerners, tell us a little bit about your experience with that.” They were southern boys, they were regular army men who really knew what they were doing and they were very good and they could make you believe when they told you something. 9:45 I had traveled outside the state of Michigan before so, I was familiar with some other areas, but the group that we had, that was in the company I was in , they were from all over the United States, but an awful lot of them were from New York and a lot of them were from the Kentucky and Tennessee hills, and we had quite a mixture of individuals , in fact we had a Greek boy there who was newly over from Greece and didn’t speak English and somehow or other the army had an interpreter who stayed right with our platoon and stayed with this boy and taught him English. 10:30 There were a couple of fellows in the barracks who couldn’t read or write and one of them bunked right next to me and I would read his letters for him and write his letters for him, but basic training, we learned first of all, how to drill, the manual of arms, and we started 5 �doing things like hikes and of course this was summer in Georgia and it was hot. We had 100 degree days and towards the middle of the training we started doing the twenty-five mile hikes with a full pack and a rifle and the packs weighed about forty or fifty pounds. We had boys who would fall out and couldn’t make it and had to be driven back, but eventually they came around and learned to do it. We received training in just about everything, first aid, rifle, how to fire a rifle, machine guns, mortars, we did a lot of target practice, bayonet fighting, of course regular drill—a little bit of everything. 11:52 Interviewer: “Now, did your experience in ROTC have an effect in terms of how you were doing things there?” Yes, and as a matter of fact, when they found out I had ROTC and knew the manual of arms, knew how to drill, etc., my platoon Sergeant would call me out to demonstrate to the rest of the platoon how to do it. 12:18 Interviewer: “But you still remained at the same rank as everybody else?” I was still just a Buck Private and paid fifty dollars a month. Interviewer: So, you got through basic, and where did you go next?” I completed my thirteen weeks of basic training—I had put in at the time I arrived there, you were allowed to do this and in fact you were asked if you wanted to do it, I had put in that I wanted to go to officers candidate school--I wanted to be an officer. 12:50 So, at the end of basic training, they assigned me to non-commissioned officers school at—it was a six week course there at Camp Wheeler and there we learned how to handle a squad and a platoon and the various responsibilities of a non-commissioned officer. At the end of this time I was promoted to corporal and sent to Fort Benning, Georgia for officers candidate school. 13:29 6 �Interviewer: “Just so we get a picture of this—some of this, I take it, is classroom environment?” Yes, a lot of classroom things, hygiene, first aid, military rules and regulations, and indeed it was a large amount of varied type of education. Interviewer: “ You know this is going to sound like a stupid question, but why would you be learning hygiene?” You go out there in the field and you’re all by yourself and you gotta take care of your self the best you can. I can remember one time writing home to my wife saying, please— this was when I was in Italy, “please send me a wash rag”, and things like this. You were so happy to be able to get soap now and then and things like that. 14:26 Interviewer: “I take that this was also to make sure that your men you were working with were keeping up with their hygiene?” That is correct, yes. You had to look out for your people. Interviewer: “So, once you completed that course—along the line here, I guess—I realize it is very difficult because it was a lot of years ago, but America’s at war so, you’re not out there doing this just because you want to be an officer, you know that at some point in time you’re going to be going into a conflict somewhere. While you were going through this schooling, was that at the back of your mind or at the forefront of your mind or were you just trying to concentrate on getting your studies completed and learning the best you can?” No, I recognized that I was going to have to go into combat and in fact, I expected it, and so, I was looking forward to learning as much as I could from what we were being taught to try to do the best possible job when eventually they did ship me out. 15:31 7 �Interviewer: “Was there a sense, you had mentioned earlier that in the barracks for example, there were people from all over the country, New York and Tennessee, etc., was there a sense that you were all Americans? That this was all an American conflict, or were there certain amount of states teasing amongst each other that you’re from this state or that state?” 15:50 There were, there were some cliques that formed, fellows from different states together or different specific areas together and these people tended to hang out together. I had a group that I was basically hanging out with. They were basically fellows who like myself had some military training from the standpoint of ROTC etc., so we had a common interest. 16:22 Interviewer: “It makes sense that you would congregate with people you felt comfortable with or sounded like you, but in terms of the overall general feeling of— I guess today you would call it patriotism and you would then too, but was there a sense that you were in this together?” Oh, very much so, very much so, and most of these fellows, although most of them had been drafted, they had no resentment to being in the service and quite a number of them had gone down and volunteered, we had a lot of volunteers too, and this was a time when as at the beginning of World War I, when America first got in, young men were flocking to the recruiting stations and joining up. They were ready to fight, they wanted to get into this thing and they wanted to do this for their country and it’s still true today with the fellow in Iraq. 17:28 Interviewer: “Now, from there where did you go?” From Camp Wheeler I went to Fort Benning Georgia, to officers’ candidate school and 8 �there we had a very rigorous six-week course in all types of military combat training and leadership. The motto of Fort Benning was—or officer candidate school was, “follow me”, and we were trained and it was drummed into us, we were the leader and we were to take the men, we were supposed to show the men where to go and what to do, and it was a very, very rigorous training. 18:23 Interviewer: “What do you mean by rigorous?” We would be up first thing in the morning and we would be out in the field running and doing all types of things. I remember one time when we were working with machine guns and I had a water cooled machine gun that I had to carry and I forget—I don’t know how far we went, but we went a long distance with it and that was heavy, and they same way we would haul ammunition. We were doing much of the same things the men would be doing, but we were doing it with the idea of appreciating what we were doing, but then of course we would get to that position with a machine gun and he had to set the machine gun up, we had to set our plots, we had to pick our fields of fire and we had to know why those fields of fire were picked and we were critiqued on all of these things we did. It was a very rigorous course and a lot of fellows did not make it. A lot of the fellows were dropped from the course. 19:32 Interviewer: “In the Air Corps, they called it washed out, is that the same thing?” The same thing, washed out, yes. Interviewer: “The thing that’s curious to me, and I think it’s fascinating, is that it’s drilled into you that this is what your men are up against. Now that you’re an officer it doesn’t mean that you sit back and drink champagne and have a cigar, you’re going to actually be there in the mud with them.” 9 �Absolutely, you were there like the motto was, “follow me”. 19:59 Interviewer: “So, once you completed this rigorous training, what was the next step in your journey?” Completing my OCS course, as a brand new 2nd Lieutenant, I was given a ten-day leave home. It was the first leave home and I arrived home and spent ten days here with my wife and our new baby. Interviewer: “Carl for give me—brand new Lieutenant coming home to your wife and your band new baby, that had to be an amazing moment in your life.” And I arrived home on our first wedding anniversary. It was really a thrilling day. Interviewer: “Now your parents were there I take it, your father?” My dad and mother were at the train station to meet me and my uncle was there. Interviewer: “And the bars were on?” The bars were on, yes. I was a brand new 2nd Lieutenant you know. Interviewer: “I don’t know how expressive your father was, but he must have been proud at that moment?” 20:58 He was very proud, but he was somewhat subdued and quiet too because he’d been through World War I and he’d seen officers killed you know, along with the men and he knew what I was going into, but he was happy that I had chosen the infantry, because that was his love. Interviewer: “Well, we won’t go into detail, but I can just see on your face that it must have been an amazingly proud moment, to get off that train and there is everybody meeting you and so, once you completed your R&R so to speak, where did you go from there?” 10 �Then I was shipped to or assigned to Camp Robinson, Arkansas, which was the basic infantry replacement-training center and these were all men who had completed basic training, but now they were being formed into squads and units which would eventually be assigned to divisions and here the new non-com’s, who had completed NCO school and the new officers, the new 2nd Lieutenants, were placed in command of squads and of platoons and we were working then in that capacity. 22:30 And again, we went through quite rigorous training with the units breaking us up into units, ok, this is your company and this is your platoon and your job is to go out here with this platoon and do this or that. 22:46 Interviewer: “So, the theory is over with and this is actual practice. This is working with real soldiers?” This is working with real soldiers, men who have had training, their all trained and they are all trained in basic, they know how to make their beds and so forth. Interviewer: “Now once again, did you feel like your ROTC training, your background, was a help in terms of your ability to take on that task compared, say to other Lieutenants in your similar capacity?” Well yes, I think the very fact that I had the background in that gave me some depth that perhaps the others did not have. 23:25 Interviewer: “Was there a sense of bonding with these men since you were responsible for them? Potentially, although you didn’t know it at the time, that you would be going into combat with these people, you were training for it to be like that. Was there a—what was the sense of responsibility? Tell us a little bit about that.” 11 �You were strangers, you were all strangers, but soon you began to know each other and began to know the personalities and you began to figure our—OK, this individual he has this attitude, he has this potential, and he’s a man I can rely on , this individual over here, we have to watch him a little more carefully and perhaps give him a little more training and get him shaped up. 24:21 Interviewer: “Once again, were these guys from all over the country?” They were from all over the country, yes. Interviewer: “You know that’s a part that I think is difficult to get across to the current generations, is that you’re thrown together with these people from all over, different accents and different ways they look and all that and you have to somehow as an officer mold that into a functioning unit. Did you feel that you were successful in doing that, in terms of your particular group?” I believe so. Yes, I believe so. The men came around for the most part, very good. You would have that occasional individual who didn’t seem to want to fit in, but for the most part there was no problem with that. 25:12 Interviewer: “Give us some idea of the scope of numbers of men training at that time, at this particular time, are we looking at a thousand people, ten thousand people?” As I said, at Camp Wheeler we had ten thousand people there and at Fort Benning our classes were two hundred in size, in fact more than 200, possibly 250 because we eventually graduated about 200 from each class and several, a number of them had washed out as such. At BRITC, Camp Robinson, I don’t know exactly how many were there, but there were several thousand troops there. 26:00 12 �Interviewer: “I think it’s important that people realize just the huge scope of men in training and just the activities and there’s just people everywhere. So, once you’ve completed that, you went on into—where did you go next?” Well, on completion of your BRITC training, the men and the officers were assigned to divisions. Infantry divisions and they went to wherever they were assigned. I was assigned to the 35th Infantry Division at Camp Rucker, Alabama. Interviewer: “What is a division in terms of numbers?” A division is about 17,000 men and it consisted of three regiments, each regiment consisted of three battalions, and each battalion consisted of four companies and each company consisted of four platoons. 27:07 Interviewer: “So, you were in charge of a platoon?” When I first joined—yes, when I arrived at the 35th division, I was assigned a platoon and we had a surplus of officers so, they assigned two brand new 2nd Lieutenants to each platoon and there was another Lieutenant and I who had charge of this one platoon. And we would take turns handling the platoon and doing things with it. 27:39 Interviewer: “So, what came next? I understand that you were transferred at that point?” I was there –I was with the 35th division for about two months and then the surplus officers were shipped out and I was sent to Fort Meade, Maryland for assignment for overseas and at that time I was informed that I would be sent to the European theater. It actually wasn’t the European theater; it was the African theater at that time. 28:08 Interviewer: “When you heard this, what was your reaction? You could have gone to the Pacific or you could have gone to Europe, was there any sense of, “I would 13 �rather be here or I would rather be there”, or did you just—“ I was happy with that. I felt that I would rather be in Europe than in the South Pacific. I’d had a little—we’d had a little more information at that time about the fighting in the Pacific and I guess the idea of being in that jungle heat and swamps etc., didn’t appeal to me as much as fighting on dry land so to speak. Interviewer: “So, then you go to the desert.” I go to the desert, right. 28:57 Interviewer: “So, let’s get an impression of—how did you get there and what happened when you arrived?” Well, after about two weeks at Fort Meade, I was ordered to report to Camp Patrick Henry, and was sent there by train, which was the pre-departure camp for overseas shipment. Once we were on Camp Patrick Henry, we were quarantined, we were not allowed out of the camp and after we were there about a week, we were trucked to the port and I boarded a liberty ship for shipment overseas. 29:42 Interviewer: “Now, for those who don’t know what a liberty ship is, this is a troop transport?” A troop transport, yes and I don’t know how many men it held, but there were quite a number of them and we sailed out of Newport News harbor there and got out in the Atlantic and we were going by quite a number of other ships and a couple of destroyers and there was an aircraft carrier that came along too and we finally—we left the shore there and had a ten day trip over to Oran, North Africa. 30:23 Interviewer: “Were you aware of the submarines and the potential danger?” Yes, in fact we had a couple of submarine scares. At one point one of the destroyers 14 �dropped a couple of the depth charges and we zigzagged quite a lot, but we arrived in Oran without any problems. 30:53 Interviewer: “Now, you are an American, you grew-up in Michigan, you did a little bit of traveling, but arriving in Africa had to be a real wake-up, what was that impression?” Well, it was very interesting; of course I have always loved to travel. It has always been my ambition to really be able to travel sometime, and Oran was a total shock. It was totally different from anything. The Souks, the Arabian people, the Arabian people and their costumes, their dress, their particular style of dress, the style of houses and buildings there, it was quite different there and to me very interesting. And I think most of the men really enjoyed seeing it. 31:54 We were sent to Camp Canastel, which was just outside of Oran and we had one section which was for officers only. Ninety percent of us were brand new 2nd Lieutenants and we were in perametal tents, and from there we went out on various field problems, compass problems, and at one time I went to—the group I was with was sent out into the desert to a British commando training center and we were there for a week and they put us through the ropes there. We learned things that we never learned in the states such as Judo and more fighting and self defense and dealing with difficult situations, some of them funny, some of them not so funny, and we had live ammunition firing over us, we would be in a dry creek bed, which was a “wadi”, and I still remember the British Sergeant saying, “Into the wadi”. It’s still a joke with us, the fellow that were there. 33:25 We had quite an intensive training session there. At other times we were sent on compass problems out into the desert. We would have a two and a half ton truck and were told, first follow this compass reading and then this one and you 15 �had to arrive back at a certain point as a result of accurately following that compass program. 33:52 Interviewer: “This is really getting close to the real thing, the war, you got to be aware—you’ve been through trainings, you’ve been through schools, you’ve been through all kinds of—but being out in the desert of North Africa, and especially now you’re dealing with the British who have already been in the war for many, many years, was there more of a deeper sense before that “this is it”, this is coming up real close?” We had that feeling, hey things are looking up—looking more serious that way and we had so much training by that time that we were imbued with the idea that it would not be long and we would be facing the real thing. 34:35 Interviewer: “You know one of the things that’s been so impressive to me, in terms of interviewing vets, is that by and large the ones that were trained very well, in other parts of the war they weren’t trained as well, there has to be some sense of confidence because of the training you had, that even though you’re going into danger that you’re at least somewhat prepared for it?” Oh yes, you feel much more confident because you had the training in weapons and the different ways of using them and of course camouflage and how to protect yourself so, you had that confidence that you wouldn’t have had without the training, at least you had an idea of what to do. 35:23 Interviewer: “Now you’re in North Africa, did you think at that time that you would be fighting in North Africa, or did you already know where you were going from there?” 16 �No, we knew we were not going to fight in North Africa because the fighting there, by that time, was ninety percent done. In fact I think the Germans were out of there. They were getting ready; in fact they had already made their landing in Sicily so, the Seventh Army. Interviewer: “This brings up something interesting, and please help yourself to the water if you need it. This brings up an interesting question, how did you get your news?” Well, we had bulletins that were posted and we had, I don’t remember in North Africa, but in the states we had camp newspapers and we had the regular newspapers because we would be able to go into town on leave and get the newspapers and magazines. There’s plenty of information there. 36:21 Interviewer. “What about radio?” Yes, we had the radio too. Interviewer: “Was that the Armed Forces Radio?” No, we had just the regular news stations. Interviewer: “In English?” In English, ya, well in North Africa we didn’t have the English and I don’t remember any radios in North Africa, but I know we did have them in Italy. There were radios in English, but we didn’t get much of them because we were not in a position to have that kind of equipment with us. 37:00 Interviewer: “You weren’t sitting around the fireplace. Ok, so now you went on then from here and is this when you got into the mountain training?” From North Africa they sent us by ship, it was a British ship, to Naples, Italy, and in 17 �Naples we were placed in a replacement depot that was at racetrack and many, many men will remember the racetrack and the officers were quartered in pup tents with two of us to a tent. We waited there for assignment to one of the units that was fighting in the— fighting there in Italy. 37:48 Interviewer: “You know, I think it is interesting to note that if the military today went into an area, they would build buildings and have everything all set up, but here you are living in pup tents at a racetrack in Naples, Italy.” Well, it’s much the same right now as it was then. True, in the situation like we have in Iraq now and Afghanistan, basically they have buildings that they can use. However, I don’t know, but I would suggest that in Afghanistan especially, that there are a lot of instances where the guys are living in pup tents. 38:28 Interviewer: “So, as a Lieutenant, I would imagine you were privy to at least some of the information of where you were going next so, what happened in Naples?” We had no idea where we were going. All we know was there were four American divisions there and we would probably be assigned to one of them, but we would go into Naples regularly, almost every day we would go into Naples—Red Cross, write letters and have a Coke and this type of thing, but no, we had no idea where we were going to go, except that we were going to one of the infantry divisions. 39:11 Interviewer: “Did you have a map of the area that told you where the Germans were and where we were or anything like that?” No, at that time no, we had nothing. We didn’t receive any of that until we were assigned to a unit. 18 �Interviewer: “So, what happened next? You were assigned to the?” There were four infantry divisions there, American infantry divisions, the third, the 34th, the 36th, and the 45th. And these divisions had been in combat, some of them like the 36th and the 45th since early September of 1943, now this was December of 1943. January 1st, I was assigned to the 36th Infantry Division and there were several truckloads of us brand new 2nd Lieutenants who were shipped up to the 36th division and I thought, “Oh, this is great, I’m finally getting assigned to a unit, I’m done with the schooling etc”. 40:16 So, we got to the division and they said, “All right all you 2nd Lieutenants you’re going to spend a week at mountain combat training school so, were back in school again, and we had a week of very intensive mountain combat training, which was totally different from anything we had been through before because we had been in the desert and we had been in the southern part of the United States where everything was flat, and now all of a sudden, it was sometimes straight up. 40:52 Interviewer: “So, this is rope climbing, this is hammering?” We didn’t do any rope climbing, the Rangers did some of that in the 10th Mountain Division later on, but no, we were just basically “hoof it”. Interviewer: “Ok, the terrain, I take it, was rough with trails as opposed to—“ Yes, it was—in Italy it was basically, you take a mountain and on the other side of the mountain there was a river, you go down the mountain and you take the river and then you had to take the mountain that was on the other side of that, and Italy is mountains from the toe up to the Po River, and we were being trained in how to set up our defenses, how to attack in a totally different type of terrain all together. It was vital that we receive this training before we joined the unit. 42:00 19 �Interviewer: “So, upon completion of that training, what happened next?” Ten we were assigned to out companies and I was assigned to Company B of the 141st Infantry Regiment and was given command of the third platoon of that company. Interviewer: “ What was it comprised of? Did you have a Sergeant? Did you have experienced people or inexperienced people?” I had a Sergeant and I had three squad leaders that were experienced in combat. They had been—some of them had been through combat since September 8, 1943, which was when the first American troops, the 36th Division, landed on the continent of Europe. 42:42 And the Corporals too, who were assistant squad leaders, they were all combat experienced men, but I would say fifty percent of my platoon or better, were brand new replacements. Now, this was a unit at that time that was fairly green for the simple reason that they had just been pulled out of combat the day after Christmas, December 26, 1943 and now it’s January 10th of 1944 and we’ve got all these new officers and men, none of whom had been in combat, that we had to quick get into, get them organized and get them acquainted with each other before we went into combat, actual combat. 43:42 Interviewer: “What did you tell this group of experienced men? Here you are in charge of them, but you’re very inexperienced in terms of combat, what did you say?” I met with my non-commissioned officers, my Sergeants and my Corporals, immediately after being assigned to my platoon and I told them, “Look, you fellas have been through it, you know what to expect, you have the experience, I do not and I want you to feel free to tell me anytime you think I’m wrong and to make any suggestions, let me know. I’ve 20 �got to learn just like the rest of these brand new men here”. Then I introduced myself to the platoon and explained that I was again, “As green as any of you here and I’m going to have to learn and we have to do the job together as such”. 44:39 Interviewer: “So, where did you go from here? Were you now planning to go into combat?” After a couple of days, we moved up behind a position, a mountain called Mount Trocchio. Now, this faced the Rapido River, the Rapido River was part of the German Gustav Line in Italy there, which ran from the Adriatic Sea over to the Mediterranean and it was probably the finest defensive position that you could ever have. Now, we had in front of us the river and then beyond that, the mountains and the British 8th Army was on our right and we were the American 5th Army, and the plan was for the 36th Division to cross the river in front of a large valley, which led up to Rome, called the Liri Valley and we were to cross the river and to break through the German lines, the Gustav Line and push on up to Rome. 45:46 The British, a day or two before, made a crossing of the river down by the coast of the Mediterranean there and they had pushed ahead two, three, four or five miles before they were stopped by the Germans. The next plan was for the 36th division to push across the Rapido River, but even though I was a brand new 2nd Lieutenant, we were all 2nd Lieutenants, we went upon the—towards the crest of Mount Trocchio and we looked down and we said right away, “Well, this is going to be a very tough row to hoe”, because the Germans had all the advantage. They had about three months to dig in and you could hear the jack hammers on the other side of the river going at night in the mountains there digging defensive positions there in the mountains for their machine guns, there mortars and their artillery. 46:56 Our patrols had been out 21 �and we could see—we determined right away that they had cleared all of the vegetation on both sides of the river for several hundred yards on each side and it sloped down on each side so, you couldn’t see exactly what was going on. Those fields were all mined, on the opposite side of the river their was barbed wire and mines and then behind that where the Germans were entrenched, they had their machine gun positions all coordinated so they could give cross fire defensive fire, plus this was January—winter and in winter it rains more than it snows in Italy. The Rapido River was at flood stage, the ground on both sides of the river was very soggy and you couldn’t get any wheeled vehicles down there so, it was up to the man with the rifle to do the job. 48:08 Interviewer. “I take it was very cold?” It was quite cold; it was basically in the thirties and forties. Interviewer: “And you had, you did have---“ We had our winter uniforms. We didn’t have any special clothing. We didn’t have those nice combat boots, waterproof combat boots, we had our regular combat boots and we didn’t have the parkas or any of that type of thing that later on they used. 48:44 Interviewer: “When did you first get into battle then?” Well, on the 20th of January we were scheduled to make an attack across the river and I’ve never been lucky at cards and our company was selected to be the lead company for the battalion for the attack across the river and so, we cut cards to see which platoon would be the lead platoon and like I said, I’m not lucky at cards and my platoon was the lead platoon. The night of January 19th we moved out of the area where we were bivouacked, on the back side of the mountain, and we went out and we had these large wooden boats that would hold about 10-12 men, and we had to go and they were dumped 22 �up—they were placed up behind the spur of the mountain and we went out and we picked those up and then an engineer guide led—my platoon was the first platoon of course so, I was up front with an engineer guide who was going to take us down to the river. 50:08 We were going down a sunken road, it was one of these positions the Germans had pretargeted and so, they could automatically set their artillery at a certain position and it would automatically drop shells in there. 50:30 I was about 200 yards ahead of my platoon and I turned around and I looked back to see if I could see them and how they were coming along and just about that time, just at that time two shells came in and landed where my platoon was. My platoon was—my entire platoon was killed or wounded, ninety percent wounded I think. The company commander was killed, the company executive officer was wounded, and another officer was wounded. 51:15 At this stage that left three brand new 2nd Lieutenants, who had never been in combat, in charge of the company. We went ahead down after we got things straightened out, we headed down with the other platoons, got down to the riverbank; we started to make the crossing of the river. Well, we found out then that some of the other boats had holes in them from the shelling and we would load a boat with men and we loaded a couple of them, and the boats would be sunk. We had quite a number of men who drowned because they were fully loaded with ammunition and rifles and their equipment. 52:00 Finally about 4:00 in the morning the engineers came down and they got a little bridge across for us and we were able to cross and move up toward the Germans. Interviewer: “Was there any fire power going on at this time, or was it quiet?” The Germans were throwing in some artillery and some mortars. They detected that we were out there. They didn’t know how big the operation was and as a matter of fact, 23 �talking with one of the German officers later, they thought it was just a patrol type, a reinforced patrol type operation where you might send out as much as a platoon. Interviewer: “So, they weren’t throwing everything at you, they didn’t realize that it was a bigger operation?” 52:56 No, they didn’t realize how big it was. It wasn’t until daylight when they realized the second--the third battalion had crossed on our right and so the two battalions were across. Interviewer: “What happens when you have injuries like that? Do the medics come in and start taking care of them?” Our aid men took care of as many as they could and in fact, we pressed other fellows into—other men into service with stretchers etc. They cleared the wounded and the dead out and then the other officers reorganized out platoons and went ahead and I went back kind of in reserve with my runner. Interviewer: “What’s a runner?” Well, he’s a fellow that sticks close to me and when I’ve got a message I have to get back to the company commander or someone, then I send him back with that message. 53:56 Interviewer: “So, you didn’t have a radio man with you?” We had our radios, but they didn’t work. We had the SCR 40’s I think they are, and they were totally useless. Interviewer: “So, after 4:00 AM, what happens?” We moved across the river and the other two platoons moved up toward the German positions. Then daylight came and about that time then the Germans really saw us there and they started pouring everything in. Heavy artillery, mortars, machine gun fire, we couldn’t stick our heads up. Most of us were in ditches or foxholes, not foxholes, ditches 24 �or shell holes, we weren’t able to dig foxholes—we couldn’t be out where we could be seen. 54:48 Interviewer: “So, you were pinned down basically?” We were pinned down and of course from the mountains on each side the Germans could see us and see just what we were doing and in time, when they saw any movement, they would call artillery fire in on us. And it was all muddy, I was in water up to my waist, so were the rest of the men. In one particular incident, my runner was about thirty feet ahead of me in a shell hole and we had a couple shells come in real close to us and after it quieted down I hear him cussing away and I said, “What’s the matter? Are you hurt?” and he said, “No, I just got my rifle all cleaned and now the suckers got it all muddy for me again.” 55:42 Interviewer: “Give us an idea of the sound. You got shells coming in, you got big guns, what are you hearing?” You’re hearing these shells come in, you’re hearing—they were also firing the “Screaming Mimis” you know, “nebelwerfers”, which was a six barrel rocket type thing, they were firing those, and you would hear these shells come in and the shell would hit and it was real heavy stuff and the ground would just shake like jelly and all you could do was just hunker down as best you could and pray that you would come out of it ok. 56:22 Interviewer: “So, what happened next? What was—they’re shelling you, they’re shelling you, what happened? We kept losing men, we had several men killed by artillery, one of the men—I saw him get a bullet hole between the eyes, I had a machine gun bullet bounce off my helmet and 25 �finally about when it started to get dark, I moved out and I took a check of who we had there and we had very few left. 57:00 During the day, during the middle of the afternoon, several of our men who were up close to a house that was our first objective, and closer to the German machine guns etc. They finally decided they couldn’t do anything there so, they got up and they surrendered and I could understand that because they were really catching it up there and they were really receiving the shell fire so, although you hate to see men surrender, I didn’t blame them any because if they had just stayed there they would just suffer more casualties. After it started to get dark, then I took a check around and found out how many I had left and we took our wounded and fortunately most of the bridge was still in and we were able to move back across the bridge and when we got across the bridge then I took the basic—what was left of the company back to where we had left from and reported to battalion headquarters there. There was one other officer and myself and fourteen men. 58:18 Interviewer: “So, what did they say to you?” Well, they understood and they concurred with me that I had done the right thing and there was nothing that I could do on that side of the river with that few men and that had been my logic—“hey I can at least hold a defensive position on our side of the river”, but I couldn’t do anything effectively on the other side. 58:52 Interviewer: “So, what was the decision to do next?” We went into—the division pulled back after a couple of days. The following day the other battalion, the second battalion, made the attack across, not where we had attacked, but over to our right. And then they fought there for a couple of days and they got in further, they were able to push in further than we were and after a couple of days, 26 �gradually men were coming back, they had to swim the river etc., but they were losing so many men that finally they were pulled back too. Now, army headquarters had ordered that our 142nd Regiment was to now attack across the same place, but after our General Wilber, our General Walker conferred with them, they finally determined there was no way they could get across there and succeed 59:57 so, they called off that attack and they had the 34th Division make an attempt over to our right. Interviewer: “Where did you got next?” We were bases in front of this Mount Trocchio, which was a long narrow mountain, and in a defensive line and we were there for about two weeks, strictly in a defensive position and we had no casualties, we had no attacks and the Germans weren’t about to come across the river and so, we just sat there in a defensive position and then after a couple of weeks we were pulled out and the 34th had made a successful crossing north of us, up river from us, and we were up close to the Abbey, the famous Benedictine Abbey at Cassino and we were sent , after a couple of week, sent over to relieve them. 1:07 Now, in the meantime, we received quite a number of our people back, ones with slight wounds and some who had just said, “Hey this is no good”, and we received a few replacements, including a couple of brand new 2nd Lieutenants. And, we moved over towards the Abbey at Monte Cassino and moved around behind it and went up on top of the mountain there and relieved part of the 34th Division, our battalion relieved the 34th Division. 1:48 Interviewer: “So, the Abbey was already held by Americans?” No, it was not, the Abbey was still—it was not a strong point—the Germans didn’t need the Abbey, the better place was down on the side of the hill dug in someplace. The Abbey, you could see, you could see somebody in the window and you could shoot them 27 �or send an artillery shell. So, the Abby was not a good defensive position and the Germans realized that they were better off and really control things from where they were on the side of the mountain. 2:19 Interviewer: “So, what was your next assignment? What were you supposed to do?” I was of course at this time... I was the company commander, I was still a 2nd Lieutenant, but company commander and we built the company back up to about forty men. When we crossed the river we had about one hundred and seventy five men. We built the company back up to forty men and we went up onto an area behind the Abbey called Snake’s Head Ridge and there with my company, we relieved a company of the 34th Division which had twelve men commanded by a PFC and we were up there trying to drive the Germans off the end of it so we could get down closer to the Abbey and get over to the Liri Valley. 3:16 Interviewer: “Now was the opposition once again heavy guns and mortars and machine guns?” There were mortars and machine guns. The unit we were facing at the river was a Panzer Grenadier Regiment, the unit we were facing assisted Panzers, and they weren’t Panzers, but the unit that was up on the mountain, they were paratroopers, and they were probably the finest German troops you could find. We faced them and they were well dug in and we just could not make any progress there. 3:56 We had a weather problem up there, it was now the first of February and it was around thirty degrees, thirty to thirty five degrees, and it would snow and it would rain, it was just wet, cold and damp and we were having a lot of problems with the men with trench foot. You couldn’t get your feet dry 28 �and the net result was that soon they would get all red and they would start to hurt and men could hardly walk. The net result was—again, I lost an awful lot of men, several of them killed or wounded, but most of them from trench foot. 4:43 I was called to battalion headquarters there , which was up on the mountain with us there, and our of a battalion of about seven hundred normally, we had seventy men and six officers and we were ordered to attack, make an attack the following morning on the Abbey and the battalion commander told me, he said, “You’ll have the left flank, how many men have you got there?” and I said, “I have five men”, and when we pulled off there were five men and myself, six men altogether out of the company and we’re pulled over to the right, our right, to take a defensive position. 5:34 We were there in that position about two weeks I ‘d say and in the meantime, while in that position, several men came back to the company and then we were relieved by the 88th Infantry Division and we were pulled back and given a big steak dinner and then went into perimetal tents and were there for a week, we were off for several weeks recuperating and building the company back up and getting trained again you know and getting used to each other. 6:19 Interviewer: “By building up you’re talking about new recruits coming in or?” Recruits were coming in, men were coming back from the hospital with slight wounds, almost any man that had spent any time over there ended up with two, three, or four purple hearts. They would get wounded and they would go back in, they would go back to the hospital and get fixed up then come back to the unit. We had a number of incidences where the men said, “I want to go back to my unit.” Much the same as it is in Iraq today. 6:55 Interviewer: “Now, you got hurt. Was the soon after what we are talking about?” 29 �Yes, I got hurt. At the Rapido there, when those shells hit, I got a piece of shrapnel in my left eye, but it was a small piece and nothing was done until after I got home here to the states. Later on, after we took Rome, we were up north of Rome there fighting and I got another piece of—I got another wound above my eye and I received a purple heart for that. 7:31 Interviewer: “Let’s get through the Italy—this part, the Abbey part before we get to Rome. What was the eventual outcome of that battle?” The eventual outcome of that was, several units, New Zealanders, British, South Africans, I think there were fourteen different units from different nations that were fighting there. The French, the French were very good and it took them until May 24th to eventually cross the river and break out. In the meantime of course, Anzio beachhead was going on, Anzio beachhead was planned for two days after we crossed the Rapido. We crossed on the 20th and the Anzio beach landing was made on January 22nd. Well, they were stalemated there too and after we rested and recuperated and got built up again to full strength, we were shipped—towards the middle—towards the end of May, we were shipped up to Anzio beachhead and we went into the attack out of there and we captured the town of Velletri and then moved on and took Rome. 8:57 At that same time the big push was made across the Rapido River. They brought most of the 8th Army over from the Adriatic side so they had basically, two full armies there to attack across the river. Interviewer: “Now, this is actual what you would picture, infantry fighting? Taking a town with guns?” That’s right, you had to up these hills and go into these towns and bring them out with a 30 �bayonet, you—it wasn’t, your air force had done all it could, the ships had brought you to where you could get there, the artillery had fired all of its rounds of ammunition, but rather done its job, but it’s still up to the guy with the rifle to go in and take the piece of territory. 9:50 Interviewer: “Is this—this is house to house?” In some instances it was house to house. We had very little of that where we were in Italy because they were small towns. In Cassino it was house-to-house fighting and our 34th Division did some fighting in there, but the British did most of the house-to-house fighting there. Cassino had been bombed to where it was just rubble, the entire town was wiped out and they had been able to--the Germans had been able to then fortify those positions. The same way with the Abbey—we finally bombed that and then the Germans moved in there because it then presented a very good defensive position and it finally took the Polish troops at the end of May, to take the Abbey and they lost a lot of men taking the Abbey. 10:44 Interviewer: “Now, in terms of your own experience though, you mentioned the name of one town before Rome, what was that?” Velletri. Interviewer: “What was that battle like?” Velletri was situated behind a small range of mountains that was immediately in front of Rome. The Germans had that well positioned and we had to take that town and those hills before we could get to Rome. We went up and we attacked there and we had quite a number of casualties, but we finally took the town and also, one of our regiments found an unguarded spot on the mountain and they went over on the other side. In essence, they 31 �got behind the German lines and that broke the German defense and so, we moved up and moved into Rome. 11:39 Rome was not defended, the Germans fortunately had not— had decided not to defend it. Interviewer: “This has got to be an amazing moment for you, I just can’t even imagine it completely, but try to give us an idea of what it felt like to march into Rome.” It was great, we were going in in columns of twos of course and I was the assistant company commander at that time—company exec, and we marched into Rome in a column of two with our rifles slung on our shoulders etc. and the crowds, crowds on each side of the road cheering us and one lady came out and she gave me a glass of milk and it was the first glass of milk I’d had since I left the states—it tasted so good. 12:35 We moved straight through Rome. It probably took us—I don’t know how many hours, but we marched completely through Rome, we walked and when we got through Rome the Germans were pulling back so fast that we were ordered—we would run ten minutes and then we would walk ten minutes, we’d run ten minutes and then we would walk ten minutes, then we would pull off into a field and fall down. We would spend maybe ten or fifteen minutes resting there and then we would go on. We did that for maybe three or four hours trying to catch up with the Germans and we were exhausted of course when we finally stopped. 13:22 The following day they brought up two and a half ton trucks and we loaded on the trucks and we moved up the coastal highway to a place called Orbitello and here we ran into a German road block and were held up by them for some time. They were dug in with the 88 and they had their machine guns and everything was perfectly positioned. 32 �Interviewer: “88 is the heavy artillery?” Actually, 88 is their anti-aircraft gun. A very high-powered gun and better than anything we had at that time. And so, they were holding us up with that—they hit our battalion headquarters and burned up a couple of our jeeps and finally we made the attack on the position and we captured it. 14:30 Interviewer: “They gave up?” They pulled out—they realized that—ok, their delaying action, it had lasted as long as they wanted, it was a couple of days, and so then they just pulled out and our men went in a took the place. At that time we had about fifty men. At that same time, as the company exec, I was in the rear area there and a bunch of two and a half ton trucks came up with replacements and I guess everything comes in a circle because at Fort Custer, at Camp Custer, they had initially assigned me to the air force ground crew—air corps ground crew, these men were all air corps ground crew. They didn’t need as many anymore so; they were given rifles and sent to the infantry. So it comes in full circle. 15:27 Interviewer. “So, what happened next?” Then we moved up and proceeded north towards Pisa and we were fairly close to Pisa and we swung off to the right. We were going to go over towards Siena and finally we took a town there after some casualties. We ran into a roadblock type thing and we pulled into this town and then we were relieved by another unit and we went back and everyone had a weeks leave in Rome. Half the company went on leave first and then the other half of the company went on leave. 16:20 Then the company was moved-Interviewer: “Leave in Rome—do you think I’m going to let you get away with that? What was that like?” 33 �Oh, that was great, they had the restaurants you know and real food, movies and we went to the Vatican. I happened to be there one afternoon when the Pope was holding audience for the servicemen from different units and so, it was Pius the IX [XII], and I went into his special room there and I stood in the back because I’m not Catholic and let the Catholic fellows get up to the front and he addressed us in very good English and gave us his blessing etc. 17:11 So, I had a chance to see the Pope and hear the Pope. Interviewer: “Was there a sense at this point that you are winning the war?” Yes, in fact we thought after we took Rome, “this should be smooth sailing now”, but that was not true in Italy because then they went across the Arno River to Florence and Pisa and across the Arno River in the Apennines and the Germans had built another defensive line there similar to the Gustav Line and it wasn’t until, this was in July, and it wasn’t until the following April that they broke out of that line. 18:04 Interviewer: “What about you though, where were you going?” We were—our unit was placed on ships and sent back to Salerno beachhead and there we trained, of course we got an awful lot of new replacements including four new 2nd Lieutenants, and we trained then again for combat as a unit to be cohesive and also trained for the landing in southern France. 18:42 We would go out—we would get on the LST’s and we would go over into the little LCI’s and go ashore and they told us at the time the area where we landed was very similar to the area where we were going to land in southern France. Interviewer: “Carl you’ve seen things that—there is this continuous training, even during battle time you are sent off now, to train for another type of landing.” Yes, yes, we would receive, even when we were up by Cassino there and behind the lines 34 �there at Cassino, we were constantly training. 19:28 Interviewer: “I find that fascinating because in my studies and what not, there had to be at the highest levels a realization that we, even though they are battle experienced, we can’t just throw them in. If they are going into this type of battle, we have to train them for that kind of battle. That’s fascinating.” I remember one time there, back of the lines, just south of Cassino, we were back there in a place we called the “apple orchard”, and the order came down for me to prepare a night problem attack up a mountain and I had to lay the whole thing out and direct my company, I was company commander at the time and I had to direct my company on how I wanted them to attack, where I wanted this platoon to go, what I wanted them to do, where I wanted to set my mortars, machine guns etc. 20:28 This had to be because at that time I was company commander , not officially, but because I had been there the longest, and I had a couple of brand new 2nd Lieutenants and I also had quite a number of replacements and you had to keep doing this to train them to work together, and we would have these problems and set them up. I have some of my notebooks at home there and when I look at them, it told to set up this kind of a problem etc. 21:07 We had to constantly be training because you go into a battle--ok, you’re unit changed and you would get some new people in and you really had to start over again. Interviewer: “You’re training then to invade France, is that exactly what happened? Were you part of that invasion force into France?” Well, the middle of August, about the tenth of August, we moved up to Naples and we boarded ships for the invasion of southern France. And I believe that was “Operation Anvil”, and we were then—we had been attached to the Fifth Army in Italy and now we 35 �were attached to the Seventh Army and we made the—on August 15th, we made the invasion of southern France and we were all prepared for the type of casualties you would have etc., but it was relatively speaking, “a cake walk”. We pulled in--our battalion was the extreme right of the whole operation. We pulled into a small bay that the Germans had fortifications on each side of and the could have just wiped us out as we came in with those little boats, but the navy had rocket ships there and while we were circling in our landing craft, the navy was sending these rockets off and it was just out of this world, they just kept going and going and when we got to shore we found out that all the German positions were just rubble, in fact I have a picture showing afterwards and it shows a German 88MM gun, which would have been pointing right to the rear of our craft as we came in, but that was knocked out. 23:11 We went ashore with our company and we had a new company commander, a Captain, we didn’t run into much opposition— we went around behind the position and captured about twenty Germans in a fortified position that were happy to give up. These were second line troops, a lot of them were Polish conscripts and they didn’t want to fight for the Germans and their officers had pulled out and their non-coms had pulled out and so immediately they give up and then we pushed on to what was our right, to the east along the coast, and we were almost to Cannes and then our company pulled out along with another company and we were sent on a special task force up to a town called Colliann [Castellane?] where a paratrooper unit had landed and supposedly were trapped by the Germans there. Well, we got up there and fortunately the paratroopers weren’t there and we didn’t know where they were. We don’t know where they ended up, but the Germans were still there in town. We had quite a fire fight and we were there and we got into house to house fighting type and we 36 �took most of the Germans prisoner, we killed a few, but we took most of them prisoner. 24:53 Interviewer: “Were they prisoner as in they just walked out from the rubble with their hands up or how did they--?” Oh, yes, yes, in one place there I was going along and there were some bushes ahead of me and I had a carbine and I had my carbine pointed and all of sudden here came two German troops again, I think they were polish boys, they had their hands up and big smiles on their faces you know, they were so glad to see me you know, and pal and this type of stuff. They were so happy to be prisoners of war. We were starting to run into quite a bit of that there in France, but in the end, we weren’t fighting the real elite German troops. They were up in the north, up by Bastogne and Lorraine and the Moselle River Valley, in that area. 25:46 Interviewer: “So what happens next? You go through this, you’ve taken this town.” We were reassigned or taken back and joined the division. We were chasing the Germans and it was very hard to keep up with them because they were moving so fast and we were moving rapidly, we used every bit of transportation we could get to try to move up to catch them. In fact at one point the battalion commander said, “Look, now there’s going to be a bunch of supply trucks, two and a half ton trucks, coming along here. Take your company and stop these trucks and get as many men as you can on the trucks and send them north, and we’ll catch them up at the other end there”. And I did that until I had all the men on the trucks heading north and then with my jeep we proceeded on north. 26:41 Up there we went over to the right and a lot has been written 37 �about the battle of Montélimar and we were ordered to take a large hill along the highway there, the highway up alongside the Rhone River, and so, we took the hill and drive the Germans off it and then we received an order to pull back down off the hill and we got down off the hill and a Major came up and said, “what are you doing down here, you’re supposed to be on that hill?” We said, “we received orders to pull back down”, and he said, “you got to be up there”, and in the meantime the Germans moved back in to their positions, in the foxholes etc. So, we had to attack and take it a second time. 27:43 Interviewer: “So, after that was taken, what happened?” Then we began to chase again, following the Germans up central France there along the Rhone river to the right between the Rhone river and Switzerland and one morning we took the town of Vesoul and this was my last action, we took the town, moved through, moved into a position where we had run into another road block similar to the Urbitello thing. Interviewer: “Carl, you were not getting the same level of casualties that you were earlier on?” No, in that area we weren’t getting as many, we lost a few people there at Montélimar and we lost a couple people on the way up to Vesoul, we lost a couple of people in Vesoul and beyond Vesoul, and there I was down to—I was the only officer with the company, but again I only had about fifty men. This was an ironic thing because we ran into this roadblock and just at that time a brand new 2nd Lieutenant was reported to me so, he was my only other officer now, and I said, “I want to do a flanking movement and I want you to take this platoon and make a flanking movement on the German position”. Well, he moved out with the platoon and he got around there and while he was around 38 �there, a sniper hit me. So, here was this poor guy, his first day in combat, kind of like me at the Rapido River, his first day in combat and all of a sudden he’s company commander and I’ve often wished I could talk to him, I never talked to him after that, but it was his. They sent me back to an evacuation, kind of a MASH type unit, and the battalion commander, he had just been up visiting with me and checking on what I was doing etc., and he’s left and I got back to this MASH unit and there was a whole line of stretchers with people laying on them and on the end were three or four empty stretchers and this aid man said, “Ok, you lay down on this stretcher”, and when I started to lay down the guy on the next stretcher sat up and said, “Strom, what are you doing here?” And I said, “look, the same thing as you apparently”, and it was my buddy from Company A, who was the A company Commander. He said, “the battalion’s in good shape” and right next to him was the battalion commander. Here were two of the four company commanders and the battalion commander all wounded at once. 30:58 Interviewer: “Where were you hit?” I was hit in the right shoulder. It was a sniper, I was being too bold, I had been in combat too long and I was not taking the precautions that I should have. I stood up and I was looking at the position and telling one of my Sergeants what I wanted him to do with his platoon and he nailed me right here, but if he had been six to eight inches to the right I’d of had it. That happened an awful lot that you would be in combat so long and you would survive and you would forget the precautions that you should take. I should not have been standing up there that way doing that. 31:45 Interviewer: “So, fear is healthy in war huh?” Yes, that’s very true. Fear is a healthy thing. 39 �Interviewer: “Was this a clean shoot? Did it go right through?” Yes, went in the front—came out the back. Fractured the humerus up here and everything, but they were able to take care of that OK. Interviewer: “So, you’re laying there on the stretcher and around you is devastation I take it, there is just a lot blood etc?” Frankly, it was quiet and none of the guys were moaning or anything. They were taking them from the far end and picking them up and taking them in and I don’t think I was there a half an hour and they came in and picked me up. They knocked me out and took care of everything and when I finally came to, they had me sitting at a table and they were putting a body cast on me and had my arm in an airplane splint and I was there for a week at the hospital back there. From the MASH unit they moved me back to a field hospital and then they flew me to Naples and I was in the 300th General Hospital in Naples and after I was there about a month, they put me on a hospital ship and sent me back home. 33:08 That was—I think I landed in the states in October and I went to Cambridge, Ohio to Fletcher General Hospital and I was there until January or February. 33:35 My wife was able to join me there, we had an apartment and I had to go back to the hospital everyday for therapy and then I was brought back to Fort Custer and I was discharged. Interviewer: “How lucky we are that that sniper missed what he was shooting for and just got a little bit of your shoulder there.” Yes, more so for the simple reason—a couple of my close friends weren’t as lucky, one in particular was a very good company commander and he bought it in France and he’d been with his company all the way through. 34:20 40 �Interviewer: “I think on of the most amazing things about the conversation we’ve just had is you have several references to becoming company commander and then you got an assistant because the casualty rate was so high that it is hard to fathom that—just how devastating these battles were.” We went through men like water and they were mostly 18,19,20 year old kids and thank god for them because they are the ones who can and did the job and they are the ones who are doing it in Iraq today and they have the stamina for it, they don’t have the ingrained fear that someone older might have and of course they don’t have the families usually, which is better too. 35:19 Interviewer: “Just to wind up, I wanted to ask you—your experience, not just in WWII, but your military experience, do you feel that it had a major influence on the person you became?” Yes, very definitely, I didn’t realize until after I had been home a few years. I didn’t know what I wanted to do and I knew when I came home I didn’t want to be a petroleum engineer so, I had to kind of feel my way and I tried several different fields and finally it hit me that I had gotten into the right thing. I got into personnel work, handling people and I was very successful with that with major manufacturing companies and ended up as director of industrial relations for one until I finally left there. 36:14 Interviewer: “Well, on behalf of myself and the people who enjoy our freedoms today, in a large part because of you and so many other people risking their lives, I know it is difficult to talk about some of these, but I want to thank you personally for everything you’ve done because I wouldn’t be here without people like you and my dad and the generation that Brokaw called “The Greatest Generation”. 41 �Well, that is true and I’ve thought about that often too, if something had happened to me, my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren wouldn’t have been here either. We only did what we had to do. Interviewer: “Carl, thank you for doing it.” 36:55 : : : 42 �43 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context StromC Title A name given to the resource Strom, Carl J. (Interview transcript and video), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Strom, Carl Description An account of the resource Carl J. Strom is a WWII Veteran who served in the United States Army in France and Italy from July 1942 to May 1945. Strom was a platoon leader in ompany B, 141st Regiment, 36th Infantry Division and fought at the Rapido River crossing, Monte Cassino, the landing in southern France, and the campaign into northeastern France and Germany. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Michigan Military Preservation Society (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-06-26 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4a9faff42bd34dc78bd6411f3294c79c.mp4 82f5710f7045a1f759920112be1b4c7a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ce3ad5c3cfd324e8b0cc39c066d6d4e1.pdf 18468bf7cca0eae8fcf00a31d4e6d8bb PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Lambert Struble World War II 45 minutes 28 seconds (00:00:10) Early Life -Born in Muir, Michigan on September 18, 1925 -Located in Lyons Township part of Ionia County -He grew up on a farm near Muir -They were able to keep the farm through the Great Depression -It was 160 acres -They grew oats, wheat, other various grains, and raised hogs -He was the middle child of three -He finished high school, but not until 1955 -He had left school after the eighth grade to go to work at a nearby orchard (00:02:12) Start of the War -He was out milking cows and there was a radio on in the barn -He heard the news that the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor -He had anticipated that the United States would eventually get drawn into the war -Thought that it would be because of German aggression, not Japanese aggression though -He thought that the war would be over before he would have to serve (00:03:35) Getting Drafted & Basic Training -He turned eighteen in 1943 and received a draft notice almost immediately -He had to report for duty before Christmas 1943 -He reported to Camp Grant, Illinois to be inducted -At the time there was an epidemic of polio in the camp -From there he was sent to Camp Wolters, Texas for basic training -Travelled there by train and the ride took two days -As they passed through small towns the women would feed the recruits -At the time Camp Wolters was a brand new camp -It was a huge camp with a perimeter that was seven miles long -The barracks were flimsy, tar paper shacks though -Poorly insulated which meant the wind could just cut through the walls -He started off with weapons training and was placed in a heavy weapons company -Trained with the .30 caliber machine gun and the 81mm mortar -Also received discipline training and went on marches -He was in good physical shape, so the physical training was not much of a challenge for him -He had grown up hunting, so marksmanship training was not difficult for him either -Everyone that was being trained was cooperative -Drill sergeants were tough, but reasonable -He stayed at Camp Wolters until May 1944 -He was allowed to go off the base to visit the town of Tyler, Texas -There wasn’t much to do there though -He remembers a sailor was in town on leave, and it was a strange sight �(00:10:25) Pre-Deployment -From Camp Wolters he was sent to Fort Benjamin Harrison near Indianapolis, Indiana -A unit was getting organized there, but there were problems with getting enough men -He stayed at Fort Benjamin Harrison for a little under half a year -He trained with mortars and machine guns every day -When it came time to leave he was given equipment and sent to Camp Kilmer, New Jersey -He stayed in Camp Kilmer for a couple days waiting to ship out (00:13:46) Deployment to Europe -In Camp Kilmer he boarded an old repurposed British superliner and left in October 1944 -He had been following the course of the war after being drafted -Thought that the Germans would have surrendered after D-Day -It took eight days to sail across the Atlantic Ocean -Men were getting incredibly seasick on the voyage over -They slept in larger rooms, not in individual cabins -There were bunk beds that were six to eight beds high -They were allowed to go on deck -On the voyage over they were treated to a USO Show by the singer Frances Langford -She happened to be on their ship going to Europe to perform for soldiers there (00:17:09) Arrival in the United Kingdom -They landed at Firth of Clyde, Scotland -He was placed on a train and sent south to the small English town of Cubbington -There wasn’t much space in the country due to the influx of American soldiers -At this point he was still just a replacement and didn’t have a unit yet -He stayed in England during the Battle of the Bulge (December 16, 1944-January 25, 1945) -While in England he was just looking for ways to try and kill time -He would visit the village of Cubbington and some of the surrounding area -Never got to go into any of the larger cities like London though -The English civilians were welcoming -There was some resentment though towards American soldiers -Felt that they were “overpaid, oversexed, and over here” -He feels that it was an accurate statement -American servicemen were paid more, which made them more desirable -He spent Christmas 1944 on the base in England -He started to wonder if he would ever get to go to mainland Europe (00:21:09) Joining the 106th Infantry Division -In early 1945 he was sent over to mainland Europe to join a unit there -He crossed the English Channel on a barge and landed on the coast of France -He was placed on a train and went to the replacement depot near Nancy, France -He stayed there for a month waiting to be assigned to a unit -Assigned to D Company 1st Battalion 424th Infantry Regiment 106th Infantry Division -He was placed on a truck and taken to join the division -There was no major activity when he joined D Company -He remembers that there were truckloads of replacements -Units were being rebuilt after the losses from the Battle of the Bulge -There were a lot of battle hardened and older soldiers in his company �-He, and the other replacements, were treated well by the veteran soldiers -They tried to teach the replacements useful things -They stayed in their camp until the units were strong enough to move out (00:26:44) Advancing through Belgium -After they moved out they advanced through Belgium -There was still German resistance as they pushed through the country -He remembers the first time that he was shot at it was a sniper harassing their position -They traveled by truck and covered six to eight miles each day -At night they would set up temporary camps on the side of the road (00:28:37) Advancing into Germany -As they moved into Germany they started to see more evidence of the war -Dead livestock and spent ordnance -Surprisingly, towns and villages were mostly intact -As they passed through them German civilians just stayed out of the way -They never stopped in the towns to make camp -As they moved deeper into Germany they started to see more German prisoners of war -Some of the prisoners were either very old, or very young -The final push into Germany was fairly easy -By this point there was no fear of the Luftwaffe since the Allies controlled the skies -It was a rarity to see just one German fighter plane -When they did it would never attack them (00:31:20) End of the War in Europe -At the end of the war there were still pockets of German resistance -When the war ended he was as close to the frontlines as he had ever been during the war -He was in northern Germany on Victory in Europe Day (May 8, 1945) -After the war he didn’t see any Soviet troops, but he did see British troops -Most likely because they were in the British Occupation Zone -After the war they set up defensive positions to insure the Soviets didn’t try to advance further -They were camped out in the German countryside, living out of tents -After the war he saw more German civilians -The civilians were cooperative and willing to help American soldiers -He remembers buying hay off of a farmer to make a bed -They would regularly trade cigarettes and food with the German civilians -He stayed in northern Germany for about a month (00:35:52) Occupation of Germany Pt. 1 -He was moved into the southern part of Germany into the American Occupation Zone -They were set up on an old German army base -Stayed there for about one month -He remembers a man shooting himself in the hand, so that he could go home sooner -Last he heard the man was going to be court martialed -The occupation duty was good (00:38:05) Contact with Home -He stayed in contact with home by way of V-mail -A way of sending and receiving letters by using microfilm for faster transportation -He also received care packages from home -Remembers getting fruitcakes and other nonperishable treats �(00:38:38) Occupation of Germany Pt. 2 -No fraternization with German civilians was allowed -Men would still go out to meet with German women though -If they were caught they were brought back to base and imprisoned -He was still in Germany by the time Christmas 1945 came -He was no longer on the base, but was in a brick house that been abandoned -They were mostly just a force there, and they weren’t carrying out any specific duties at the time (00:40:40) Coming Home & Life after the War -He was sent home in August 1946 -A full year after the complete end of the war in August 1945 -He was sent to Camp Lucky Strike in northern France to be processed -He stayed there for about two (or three) weeks -He boarded a Liberty Ship bound for the United States -It took eight days to get home -The weather was good, so it was not a bad voyage -The ship arrived in New Jersey and he reported to Camp Kilmer to be discharged -After returning home he went to work for Portland Equipment Company -Worked there for three years -After that he worked for the State of Michigan as a prison guard at Ionia Prison -Worked there for thirty three years (00:44:02) Reflections on Service -It was a different way of life going into the Army -He learned from his experiences -Taught him to look after himself, because no one else will -He would do it again if he had to � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_StrubleL1715V Title A name given to the resource Struble, Lambert (Interview outline and video), 2014 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-12-15 Description An account of the resource Lambert Struble is a World War II veteran who was born in Muir, Michigan in 1925. He grew up there and in 1943 he was drafted into the Army and was inducted at Camp Grant, Illinois. He received heavy weapons training at Camp Wolters, Texas and then later at Fort Benjamin Harrison, Indiana. In October 1944 he was sent over to Europe out of Camp Kilmer, New Jersey and was stationed in Covington, England during that winter. In early 1945 he was sent over to mainland Europe where he joined D Company 1st Battalion 424th Infantry Regiment of the 106th Infantry Division. He participated in the advance through Belgium, and then the final push into Germany. After the war he was part of the American occupying force in northern Germany, and then in southern Germany until August 1946 when he was sent home and was discharged out of Camp Kilmer, New Jersey. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Struble, Lambert Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Language A language of the resource eng Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/eaa7fa4d20ae63d3d7bd0709ecdc5233.mp4 63b10382748c085f22efef9488bfbfbc https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bfb05c56b1dd255e386fe86c5a590ef3.pdf 4c4fa70ebed4df3f89379b5f0484a0e3 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Interviewee’s Name: Susan Strum Length of Interview: 1:04:25 Interviewed by: James Smither Transcribed by: Hokulani Buhlman Interviewer: This interview is a co-production of WKTV Voices, and Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project, and the Silversides Museum in Muskegon, Michigan and we are in fact on the campus of the Silversides Museum today conducting this interview. We’re talking today with Susan Strum of Muskegon, Michigan, so Sue, why don’t you start off with some background and to begin with: where and when were you born? Okay, I was born in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada in 1951 to a Canadian father and my mother was a US citizen. She was at that point in her late 20’s and for those times was considered a spinster, so she and her mother were traveling by train around Canada visiting various relatives to see if anybody knew, you know, anybody who might be eligible. And my parents actually met at a tea leaf reading. He had taken his mother and her friends, and she had taken her mother and her cousin, and you know they’re both apparently “I’m only here because I brought them” and, you know, the rest is, as they say, history. They came back and forth, mom was, you know, a school teacher in Michigan and he was an engineering student working for the phone company in Edmonton, and after back and forth for a few years they ended up getting married in Muskegon. Moved back to Edmonton where mom said goodbye to all of her friends and her bridge club that she’d been in from high school, and off she went 2,000 miles away. Well, in 1953 we ended up moving to Owosso, Michigan with the phone company. Edmonton was, at that time, one of the largest cities in North America with the dial telephone system outside New York City, so everyone who was looking at putting in dial telephone systems was, you know, stealing people from New York and Edmonton to various places and with mom having family, especially elderly parents in Michigan, that was the best we could do and by 1955 we were in Muskegon, mom was back on her bridge club, I started first grade in North Muskegon elementary school and I graduated from there in 1969. Interviewer: Okay. Now, as you’re kinda going through high school things in this country are getting kinda interesting. �That puts it mildly! Interviewer: You’ve had a civil rights movement, you’ve got the counter-culture thing, you’ve got the war, a lot of this stuff and all the craziness in ‘68. How much of that were you paying attention to? (3:12) Paid a fair amount of attention to it, but it was not… didn’t really seem to affect us, North Muskegon had at that point and probably still does a reputation of to sending 99% of its students on to college, so, you know, we weren’t terribly—the guys weren’t terribly worried about the draft. We followed it, had a school teacher in 7th grade who, you know, to dismay of 97% of the class said we had to watch the nightly news and write reports on it, and my cousin and I are going, “We’re gonna get credit for what we do any how?” Our parents, we always watched the news so this was like, this is a bonus, so. You know, we were aware of it but, you know, it really—you know, North Muskegon to this day only has 3-4,00 people and it’s a mostly doctor/lawyer/indian chief zone. It was out there, we ready about it, we knew people who went. By that point we actually also knew someone who had died, so you know there was a gold star family in North Muskegon which, thankfully I believe is still one of the only gold star families. But, no, just really… we knew it was there, but… Interviewer: Yeah, and since you were a woman and not subject to the draft anyway. Right. Interviewer: It would make less of a difference. Okay, so what do you do after you finish high school? I enrolled in Muskegon Community College and discovered that I really didn’t have the… attention span needed to, [you know, pay attention.] I had more fun playing poker with some of the veterans and active in student government, I was the treasurer of student government the second year I was there, and so as a result my grades didn’t quite meet muster. The employment, you know, rate in Michigan was absolutely abysmal, there was very little opportunity and so I said, “I need to do something and right now college is not it.” So I started looking at the military, looked at all four branches, pretty well immediately crossed out the Army and Marine Corps as they only offered a two-year opportunity and with the two-year opportunity you get very little in the way of training. Interviewer: Okay, so they weren’t offering longer—cause if men enlisted they could enlist for longer hitches, but that wasn’t being offered to you? �I don’t know whether they, you know, the Marines and the Army basically were pretty much two-year, you know, active duty and then you probably—especially the men had, you know, others who were a six-year commitment, you know, because of the draft. But the Air Force and Navy… Navy required 3 years, Air Force four years but offered far more, you know, opportunity and I ended up, you know, joining the Navy, you know, because at three years but, you know, in a clear twist of fate I ended up extending to go to school and ended up spending just about four years in the Navy, so. You know, it really didn’t, you know, make that much of a difference in the long run. Interviewer: All right. Now at the point when you were enlisting, now what year was this? (6:36) 1971. Interviewer: Okay, and what was your citizenship status then? At that point I had dual-citizenship because my father being Canadian, having been a Canadian citizen, born in Canada. My mother a US citizen, so for years both countries recognized, you know, our citizenship either one depending on where we were and we just, you know, had friends and family in both places. We just went back and forth across the border, you know, and it wasn’t until my enlistment, you know, paperwork was fairly well underway and we were starting to discuss departure dates that the recruiter was brought up short with the realization that I needed to be a US citizen, but having been in this country since I was 3 it wasn’t any real big deal. Interviewer: But having dual citizenship, that wasn’t accepted? Was not acceptable for women. Men could join and use their time in service to become a citizen, but they said, “You’ve lived here 17 out of 20 years, you know, what are the chances of you going back to Canada?” which turned out to be somewhat ironic later on but because I’d been here as long it was a fairly simple process. I had ended up with a private meeting with a federal judge in Grand Rapids who swore me in and I was able to make the original, you know, deadline we had anticipated for enlistment. Interviewer: All right. So, where did you go then for your training? Everyone from, you know, Michigan is processed then and I assume now through Detroit, so, you know, they sent us over in buses to Detroit where we spent the night, we were sworn in the next morning, given our orders and sent weekly by plane to Washington, D.C. and then a Navy bus picked us up and took us to Brainbridge, Maryland. �Interviewer: All right. Now, as you’re going through this processing are men and women together? Or do they separate women out at some point? As soon as we got on the plane we were separate. Women’s training back then was completely separate from men, we saw men in the mess hall and during the church service on Sunday, we were not allowed to talk to them, they were not allowed to talk to us. We were told to consider men as trees and everyone knows how much in love with, you know, trees women are so, you know… Interviewer: Okay. So, back when you were processing in Detroit, for instance, or that kind of thing. We were all just, you know, lined up together and then they just, you know, parceled us out to the various, you know, places. You know, lot of the guys probably got back on buses and went to Great Lakes or, you know, potentially could have gone to Orlando which was very real for men at that point, I believe. Interviewer: Yeah. And then San Diego otherwise, probably. Yes, that’s right. Interviewer: But they’re farther west. Okay. But in your case, okay, Bainbridge, Maryland. Where in Maryland is that? (9:39) It is in the middle of nowhere. It is still apparently in the middle of nowhere. I’ve had by chance recently connected with a girl who actually was into a Facebook group for former WAVES, connected with a women who had actually been in my company and she has been back to Bainbridge in a couple of occasions, that she lives in the area and she says it’s still as nowhere as it was then. Interviewer: As a naval base is it actually on Chesapeake Bay somewhere, or is it inland? It doesn’t exist as the base anymore. It has not for many years. It was near Havre de Grace and someplace else, but you know, we were there we had no opportunity really to, you know, if we went someplace else they took us in a bus and it really didn’t matter cause we weren’t going on our own. Interviewer: Yeah, but that’s sort of the upper end of Chesapeake Bay and there’s not really that much there. �No, the closest city of any size is Lancaster, Pennsylvania where they took us during one of the weeks where, you know, to pick up new things that we needed still for our, you know, required uniform. You know, underwear, you know slips, etc. that we hadn’t brought with us or they just didn’t have, you know, available on base. Interviewer: Alright. Describe basically the training process itself: when you get there what happens to you? (11:03) Well, it was pretty strange because we apparently got there on Halloween. We got there late, everyone else had gone to bed, you know, luggage did not come with us it disappeared some place, arrived a week or so later so we wore the same clothes for a week. Never did wear that outfit again, and I had loved it so much before. But, you know, we’re just sitting on the stairs in the main barracks known as Hunter Hall while they sorted us out and figured where we were supposed to go since we were all assigned to, you know, the few of us that were there I don’t remember how many of us there were, were assigned to various companies and they gave us a sucker. Well, this is pretty strange, you know… well little did I know that was one of the last sweets I was going to see for several weeks. It ended up making a rather larger impression on me than I, you know, simple little lollipop with a little paper hoop in it would do in any other circumstance, but eventually got us sorted out and… the main barracks for women, as I said, was called Hunter Hall and it held, I believe, 8 companies of women. Since they were getting a—we didn’t know this but, you know, in highsight, you know, they were getting ready to transfer the women’s training to Orlando, which they did in July of 1972 and so knowing there would be some lag time they kind of multiplied the number of companies going through ahead of time and put two companies in a barracks that had not been used probably since World War II. It was indeed a World War II barracks that was two floors, it was condemned while we were living in it, when the company upstairs moved out we thought we might, you know, have won a lottery and got to use their bathrooms and laundry and we were told it wasn’t safe to go up there and if there was a fire to don’t worry about the exits, try and, you know, go out the windows. Just remember to go out the windows on the street side because it was built on a ravine and there was a two story drop on the other side. Fortunately we never had that, but you know, it was winter and it was a cold winter for Maryland and the furnace kept going out, the water heater kept going out and, you know, they issued you one blanket. It was a little gray wool blanket and it was your fire blanket you were supposed to use in case of fire, but it had to be folded just so. Well, when there’s no heat, you know, there was like do I unfold this thing? It’s not worth the hassle. Our company commander, to her credit, did try to get us additional blankets so we could keep that one in its pristine shape, but she was unsuccessful so we spent a great many nights sleeping in our winter, you know, what they called great coats which is a wool overcoat, over our pajamas just to try and, you know, curled up trying to stay warm. You know, while the people in Hunter �Hall had, you know, lots of, you know, hot water and, you know, heat and all kinds of things, so. We were special, we were tough. Interviewer: Alright. And we did get some special, you know, considerations because of it. Interviewer: So basically the group that you came in with, did you all get put into that new barracks or were you split up? (14:42) No, we all got split up. I’m not sure that there was anyone besides me, you know, that went into, you know, that company. Interviewer: So you were just lucky. Yes. Interviewer: Alright. Story of my life. Interviewer: So, what does the actual training consist of? Training at that time was mostly, you know, paperwork learning, you know, the various ranks, how to march. It wasn’t a whole lot of physical training because at that point most of the assignments available for women were office related with the exception of corpsmen or dental techs, although literally daily new positions were coming open. Interviewer: So they were starting to— We were learning about the various professions and a great deal of that was taken doing aptitude testing, you know, what we were capable of and then therefore what jobs we could be assigned, you know, once we, you know, graduated. Interviewer: Cause I guess this wasn’t when the—of course over the course of the 70s they open up a lot of opportunities for women in the military, so was this kind of the beginning end of that, when more things would be coming potentially available? Very much so. Very much so. When I, you know, I qualified for a number of, you know, categories that, you know, many women were not eligible for and some that were but did not �have any vacancies at that time. So they said, “You know, we’re just going to put you in the next most qualified,” you know, “Training opportunity there is, but keep an eye open we’re gonna note it in your file that when and if one of these other opportunities comes open, you know, we encourage you to apply for it. Cause chances are if there’s an opening you’ll get it. Especially because by that point you will have some prior service.” So I ended up as a result being trained as a dispersing clerk, I went to a training center in San Diego and trained there for… again, approximately 10 weeks. But at that point, you know, once we finished basic training, you know, men had ceased to become trees and they were back to being human beings again and we had classes with guys, we could talk to them on a regular basis, we could, you know, associate with them. Interviewer: Okay. I’m just gonna back up into the Bainbridge part of things for a little bit. Sure. Interviewer: What kind of women were in your company, what were their backgrounds or…? (17:12) We had everything from, cause you had to be 18, so we had, you know, women who were 18 on up to, you know, some were in their mid-20s and just from, you know, all various backgrounds. The girl who actually had the bunk below me was salvation army and she brought her bugle, and so once they found out about that the unit who was on night watch would come in about 5 minutes early and wake her up—though they always seemed to wake me up instead! It’s like, “No, lower bunk!” And she would get up and she would blow revelry. Well it gave me a little bit of—it, you know, gave those people in our little cubicle a bit of a heads up so we could, you know, hit the ground, you know, we were running. Interviewer: And when they do that was there a sort of set of things everybody sort of has to do XYZ within a certain number of minutes, so you had the advanced warning in waking up, that was helpful? Yes. Interviewer: Okay. All right, and what sort of people were training you? Oh, we had the old bus, it was all women, first class petty officers of various gradings. My company commander was the aviation store keeper, I don’t remember the others but they were always first, occasionally second class petty officer in training, but usually first class or chief petty officers and of course then the officers commanding, but again it was all female. �Interviewer: Okay. And how did they treat you? They treated us very well except for the food. The food was absolutely horrible and almost everybody got food poisoning and instead of worrying about gaining weight pretty much everybody lost weight, a lot of weight. Interviewer: So much for the reputation of the Navy having better food. Oh they had much better food other places, they just didn’t have it in Bainbridge. Interviewer: Alright, And so how long did you spend in Bainbridge? It was approximately 10 weeks. Interviewer: And then from there you went out to San Diego? Yes. Interviewer: Okay. And what did the training there consist of? (19:14) Training there consisted of primarily using—how to calculate payroll, how to use, you know, a calculator. Some of them they had electronic calculators, some of them were behemoth mechanical monsters that had probably been in use since war two. Some of us distinctly used our heads to figure it out until we got caught and said, “Oh, you have to use the machines.” So it was just kind of a repetition, this is what you do, you know, if they go on leave; this is how you process the, you know, various scenarios of pay, of leave time, sick time, if they get transferred this is what you have to do, etc. Interviewer: Okay. And how long did you spend training there? That was, again approximately I think it was, I said about 10 weeks. Interviewer: Okay. And were there men in these classes now? Yeah, oh yes. Yeah. The majority were men. Interviewer: And what kind of dynamic was there between the men and the women in a class like that? �Mostly, you know, helping and sharing. We’re all in this boat, we’re all in—pretty much for the most part—all need to do it. So it was just, if you help me I’ll help you because everybody had their own strengths and weaknesses and yeah, we were all in this together to get our company, you know, through to graduation. Interviewer: All right. And then did you get to go off base in San Diego? We did, mostly, you know, we did some exploring, you know, Balboa Park. You know, the beach. Biggest thing was there was Disney, you know, buses that would run up there, you know, especially on weekends and back then they had the old e-ticket type things. So you bought, you know, you got your entry sheet along with a whole bunch of coupons and, you know, what you didn’t use you brought back, you know, it’s kind of put in a pile and then so somebody else would come and they’d take this group of coupons with them, and they’d have to buy the entry in it but then, you know, you would just use and then you bring it back and just, you know, it went on until some poor sucker when they went to the general admission was stuck with a whole bunch of coupons that didn’t work, but uh… That was, you know, the big thing because, you know, we were from all over the country most of us had never been to California, you know. We’d come out, especially those of us coming out of Bainbridge where it was miserable cold and icy and, you know, being in the warmth in San Diego in February and it was really pretty wonderful. Interviewer: Alright. Now once you complete that course what do they do with you? Well, if you graduated they shipped you out. It seemed like everybody who graduated got transferred someplace else and those who failed got to stay in California. But nobody was willing to intentionally fail, and we were all mostly new to this stuff and just, you know, but ended up going from there to a station in Charleston, South Carolina. Which really was a wonderful place but, you know, it wasn’t San Diego by any stretch of the imagination and there were, you know, probably oh a half-dozen, dozen of us who all [were] from various training who met in San Diego all ended up in Charleston and we used to get together in the Enlisted Club, you know. I think we wore out the jukebox playing California Dreaming by the The Mamas & The Papas and we’d just sit there and play pool and, you know, sob that we weren’t still where it was nice and wonderful and warm, you know. Yes, we were still with someplace where it was gorgeous with plantations and, you know, wonderful things but, you know, it just, you know… for kids, most of us in our, you know, late teens and early twenties, you know, it just didn’t have the things that, you know, San Diego’s surf culture, you know, seemed to offer. Interviewer: Alright. So what was your actual job? (23:19) �My job there was handling payroll, I started out handling payrolls for submarines in the main office which actually was stationed off base. There was a fairly large facility and we had, as I said, submarines. Back then the submarine stations in Charleston were some of the early nuclear subs and they had what we call blue and gold crew; so you’d have a crew that was out at sea for 6 months, crew in training on land for 6 months, and then this, you know, the sub would come in, get refitted, the other crew would take off. And it did that for several months and then I got transferred, promoted, I’m not quite sure exactly what but to a small office on base where I handled payroll for minesweepers, and they pretty much stayed put the entire time. They thought they were pretty lucky and for the most part they were, although, you know, our office there was a one experimental cement minesweeper which was more just outside our office. Which meant we had very little daylight, you know, and the minute the sun went over, you know, noon it went behind this enormous cement thing and we were in the shade all the time and, you know, of course the Vietnam War is winding down. Things were looking up, we’ve managed to miss out on everything. Little did they know, little did we know, the orders came through to send all the east coast minesweepers to Haiphong Harbor to clean out the mines in North, you know, Vietnam. Interviewer: Yeah, it’s a part of the peace settlement or whatever. Yes. Interviewer: Yeah. And so their leisurely, you know, tours of duty came to a fairly abrupt end for reasons that, to this day and this happened in 1973, and I still don’t know why this many years later filling out the paperwork required somebody with a security clearance. I’m the only one in the office with the security clearance. I’m a naturalized citizen and the only girl in the office and I’m the only one with the security clearance, so I fill out all this paperwork. Well, the Navy, and I’m assuming the other branches had similar, had a five digit code, you know, that was attached to the name of whatever place you were going to be or, you know, if you were in transit there was a separate code for these. Well, there was no code for enemy territory, so that part of the paperwork all had to be left blank. So I fill the stuff out, well, to back up slightly: while I’m stationed down there the rating aerographer makes, which is weather observer forecasters, which they had originally hoped that I would be able to become, opened up. So, following orders from previous I applied for it and was accepted, you know, to even become an aerographer's mate. But it meant an automatic change from a seaman rating to an airman rating, but I still kept my rank as a dispersing clerk. So instead of being a DKSN I was a DKAN which does not exist, except on me. So, you know, we get all this paperwork done, Lieutenant Commander looks it over and everything’s fine, we send it off, sometime later I don’t remember exactly when the phone rings, he picks it up, next thing I know, “Susan, there’s an admiral so-and-so from Washington wanting �to talk to you.” And I’m like, “I don’t know any admiral so-as-do, I don’t know any admirals at all.” “Well he asked for you.” So I go up there, I’m literally standing at attention next to Lieutenant Commander’s office which is where the phone was and he, you know, this man who says he’s admiral we have no way of verifying is reading me out for this horrible job I had done at this paperwork and this fictitious, you know, signature and I’m going “What?” so I had explained to him that I was in the process of transferring between being a dispersing clerk and an aerographer’s mate and the change in rank had come through before the change in rating and I was told I would still wear my dispersing clerk emblems as a dispersing clerk until my orders were cut and I left Charleston to go for further training, at which time that I would just simply become an airman. He bought that, but then he’s still fussing about the paperwork and there’s no codes. I don’t know who this person is, you know, I’ve got a security clearance which I’m not about to divulge, my lieutenant commander is staring at me and so I’m trying to think of way to hint to this gentleman how he can come up with the answer himself, and I realized from being a fairly neurotic newspaper reader that the biggest thing in all the papers lately had been, you know, emptying Haiphong Harbor of mines and so, you know, I just finally, you know, “Do you happen to have today’s newspaper handy? Please humor me a minute, would you please look. Tell me what the headlines are?” Well the headlines were “The Removal of Mines from Haiphong Harbor” and the lightbulb went off, and he immediately became very apologetic, you know, and said that the paperwork was great and he wished me, you know, the best wishes on my future endeavors and hung up and I’m standing there shaking like a leaf. And my Lieutenant Commander looked at us like, “You look like you need a drink.” and I said, “I think I need two.” Interviewer: So basically, the other people in your office didn’t know what the assignment was going to be, or you didn’t know whether they knew it or not? (30:01) I don’t think they did. Interviewer: Okay. I’m not sure. Part of it was a—there’s somewhat of a—I was, you know, again I was the only girl in the office. We had, most of the rest of the office were Filipino, for some reason becoming a dispersing clerk was one of the easiest ratings for them to get into and for the most part they all seemed to excel at it. But there was still a bit of a language barrier and for reasons that I can only guess our first class petty officer, who I would have thought would have been… it was a black gentleman, who for whatever reason could not get a clearance. So that left me and Lieutenant Commander, and the Lieutenant Commander’s not gonna do the paperwork. Interviewer: But in the meantime I guess, did you have anybody else hearing you talk except the Lieutenant Commander? �Oh yes, no, the whole office could hear. Interviewer: Okay, so you couldn’t just blab these things in front of that audience. No, because, you know, plus I didn’t know him and this man says he’s an admiral but I don’t know that it isn’t somebody trying to test me to see whether I’m divulging this information or not. You know, so it was. Interviewer: Yeah, okay. And the initial stuff that he was fussing about, that was because you had listed your new creative rank? Yeah, I had signed it as a DKAN, you know, rather than a DKSN, you know, this part of the paperwork on where they would be going to was blank. Interviewer: Yeah. Okay. So it was just kind of a multitude of, you know, compounding errors. Interviewer: Now, did the minesweepers leave before you did? Oh yes, they left, yeah. They were leaving as I was processing their paperwork. Interviewer: Alright. And did the cement minesweeper go away? (31:58) It did! We actually, I managed to see a little bit of sunshine before I departed. Interviewer: Alright, now what… one of the things about Charleston, you know, you’re in the south and it’s now made it into the 70’s but there are aspects of segregation, discrimination that kind of last a long time. Did you notice any racial issues at all? No, not at all, again we basically associated with, you know, other people, you know, we worked with and the women’s barracks were actually right next to the Naval hospital. They had actually been women's officer quarters up until sometime, I don’t know where they, you know, I mentioned they probably ended up giving them an allowance to, you know, have housing off base so they then turned it over to enlisted and we only used, you know, a small portion of the building but, you know, it was for enlisted persons, you know, it was, you know, it was kind of heaven. You know, if you’ve gone from sharing with 70 women in basic training to, you know, 4 women while you’re in a school and now you’ve got a room to yourself that you share an adjoining bath with somebody if that room happens to be filled. There were a few of us, enough of us there, that most of us there had bathrooms and rooms completely to ourselves. �Interviewer: When do you go out into the community, I guess, is the question. I guess we usually went with the people we were with. We went, you know, there really wasn’t, you know, I mean the bases provided pretty much all the entertainment and everything you needed. Go off base was usually to go, you know, one of the fellas that I, you know, where we stayed at the time had a motorcycle and we’d go out and go off on a motorcycle ride but usually we rode with, you know, somebody else who was also in the Navy. We really didn’t have too many opportunities. Now my parents did come and visit me a number of times and we went out and explored, you know, Charleston and some of the plantations, but to be honest I didn’t see any overt signs of racism until I was working in a planning office in Lake County, Florida in 1995 where, sadly, my supervisor pointed out that if you looked you could still see where “Blacks Only” had been painted over on the water fountain, and that was just… you know, that was sad and sickening. To think that in that day and age someone could still be proud of it, and proud of the fact that we had a former, you know, imperial wizard in Lake County. Interviewer: Alright. So I’m gonna go back now to your training. So, how long then did you spend in Charleston? I spent about a year in total there. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, and now do you get your new rating and then you have to go to school for that? Yes. Absolutely. That school was in Lakehurst, New Jersey which is… you know, about halfway between Philadelphia and Atlantic City, a little further north than that. It’s where the Hindenburg crashed and the hanger, you know, that was used for the Hindenburg and other blimps is still, you know, was still there in the 80’s and I understand is still there. I’m assuming, and now it as a historic preservation designation to protect it, but it’s just unbelievable to picture the scale, you know, of the blimp until you see the hanger. Interviewer: Cause the blimp would fit inside it. (35:57) Yes! Most of it would fit in, the tail oftentimes didn’t, but when my dad found out I was going to Lakers he was just, he was so excited. He had a recording of various events in history and, you know, he dug it out and he played a copy of the recording of the gentleman who was covering the landing, it was the first landing of the season and, you know, the classic “Oh, the humanity!” and just to see it for real… I mean today it still sends chills up my spine. I got to know one of the base photographers and I have four copies of original, you know, photographs of the Hindenburg while it was crashing. They said, “You can take anything you want as long as you don’t take the �last one or the negative.” Those have been proudly hung in pretty much every apartment I’ve had and are, you know, it’s horrible but it’s exciting and it’s history. And I could say I’ve actually been there, I’ve been in the hanger, I’ve been in the back of the hanger and stayed in the back of the hanger. While I was there they had a big airshow with the Blue Angels and the Blue Angels were doing some practice runs, and one of them crashed and the pilot was killed, and one of the women from our barracks who was permanently stationed there happened to be on duty that day and had to go out and take the pictures of the, you know, of the scene and she was naturally, extremely shook up and so we took turns literally staying with her 24 hours cause she did, you know, she says, “If I go to sleep I see it again.” And so when they, you know, encouraged us students to help out with this thing and we’re all going, “We’ll help but we’re going to be in the back, we don’t want to see, you know, we don’t want to risk seeing another plane crash.” You know, they didn’t have any plane crashes but, you know. You see four go over and three come back and your gut tells you, you know, something’s wrong and then the alarms start going off and, you know, so… Interviewer: Okay. So what else goes on, what action was going on at base besides training people for your job? There was, it was actually a, you know, there was, you know, a station there. We weren’t the only people being trained there, I don’t remember what the other training was but there was an actual duty station. It, Lakehurst, abuts, is it McCoy—it’s a big Air Force base just, you know, adjacent to it and I want to say there’s an army facility there too and so they did all kinds of, you know, joint maneuvers and when I went back up in the late 80’s, mid 80’s, to Philadelphia for graduate school, I took time and drove out there and at that time, and from what I’ve heard from other people, the base is now and has been for many years a top-secret facility and… you know, there’s basically a place where you can turn around at the gate and, you know, if they’re not busy they’ll talk to you and, you know, yeah I was stationed here once upon a time and all those buildings are long gone but, you know, the hanger is still there and you can see it from the road but beyond that, you know. They have super top-secret clearance well beyond anything I ever, you know, had. Interviewer: Alright. So what did the school consist of? (40:03) School consists of teaching you various cloud-types, precipitation types, everything from rain to snow to sleet to hail to hurricanes to, you know, tsunamis. Various weather patterns, you know, what various winds mean, how to plot them on a map and then how to make sense of it what you’ve got the information on a map, you know, and just every hour observations are required to throughout the entire, you know, not only the Naval system but the entire meteorological, you know, world and back then, once you did it you took your observation, you put it in your log book, put it on your maps and then someone else usually had to be—you’d take turns to do it, �there’s always at least two people in the office, print it up on a teletype machine, you know, one finger at a time or so and send it out so that everybody else knew what you had so they could add it to theirs and that was how we developed, you know, an idea whether fronts were coming through, we had some very very basic satellite images that, you know, sometimes you can see something and you know sometimes the satellite was just not gonna cooperate and you had nothing. Interviewer: Yeah, I guess there was a nationwide radar system by that? Or? Very little for weather purposes, it was still, you know. Interviewer: It was still early enough in the 70’s it's not as common as it would become later on. No, you know, and the satellites were not nearly as, you know, efficient as a main, you know, now they can, you know, they can pick out the license plate on your trailer and, you know, if you’re staying out there what brand cigarette you’re smoking. You know, we would be lucky to say, you know, “Is that a cloud or is that a ship?” You know, or is that just a blip in the satellite download? And sometimes you literally, you know, had to guess and go back and look at the previous reports because they only came in like every 6 hours, and well based on that it’s still in the same place it probably wasn’t a cloud it really was a ship. Or, you know, a sandbar or, you know, who knows a whole island. You just kind of got seen by, you know, guess and by God will you figure it out, you know, what was what, you know, and to think that, you know, we would spend hours doing this stuff which today they, you know, it all comes in to computers and prints out and you know, five minutes everything that we spent a couple of days doing. Interviewer: Did you have computers at all? (42:57) No. Interviewer: Not there yet? No. Interviewer: So what year is this now? This is ‘73 through ‘75. Interviewer: Alright and… and you were living on the base at that point? �Oh yeah. Interviewer: Okay and could you get off the base or do anything else? You could get off, in Lakers we could get off the base and go to various places when you weren’t studying but, you know, it was a fairly, you know, it was a far more intensive, you know, training program then to become a dispersing clerk so, you know, a lot more time was spent studying. Cause there was, you know, there was a lot more material. Interviewer: You had to memorize a lot. Yeah. Yes. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, and that’s still the school so once the school finishes where do you go? (43:46) Well, you know, as with any other school the postings come open as to what has become available. Well, turns out hurricane hunters had an opening. It required someone with prior service time, two of us qualified: he had been in the Navy 28 days longer than I have. He got first pick. I mean it’s every weather guesser’s dream to be in the hurricane hunters, at least, you know, we thought. So he picked it. Second choice was between Adak, Alaska or Roosevelt Roads, Puerto Rico. I chose Roosevelt Roads, Puerto Rico. Before my orders were cut he had bailed on the hurricane hunters, he decided that was not for him, they tried to get my orders recut and, you know, it didn’t work so somebody a couple classes after us, you know, potentially got lucky, I never did, you know, did hear. But Roosevelt Roads being warm was definitely more interesting than the land of horizontal snow. Interviewer: Okay. So what was at Roosevelt Roads? Roosevelt Roads was the largest, area wise, base the Navy has ever had. Most of it was underwater at high tide and barely above water at low tide; air field was miles from anything else. I was only the 12th woman ever assigned to the base and the first woman in the weather office, so, you know. But it was, you know, it was a city unto its own, which was, you know, rather fortunate because at that point we weren’t paying a whole lot of attention to Vietnam because we were more concerned with the political problem in Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico had probably 20, 30 political parties all of which were warring with each other to the point of bombing and shooting, you know, there were a great number of times where we were restricted to base because of the danger and there were a couple of times the powerlines to the base got cut. We were re-established very quickly but, you know, you couldn’t go too far. Fortunately there was a really good Puerto Rican restaurant literally at one of the gates, and so, you know, if you �couldn’t go anywhere else you could go there. Oh my God, they had the best rice and beans. You know, I’ve only managed to make it like that a couple of times but, yeah. So, you know, if we went we went as a group, usually, you know, a couple of times the weather office, you know, anybody who wasn’t working and the Lieutenant Commander in charge, you know, got a van and we went out and explored El Yunque, the rainforest which was right near the base and then we, you know, took a trip inland—Arecibo, which is where the big radio telescope is, and I did end up seeing the other end around where Air Force had had a base on a visit with a group of SEAL team who were visiting from Norfolk but it was pretty strange, especially the rainforest, you know, they had been trying to repopulate it with birds but the poverty was such that the people were killing the birds for food even though, you know, the brightly colored birds really have very little meat on them and, you know, their value is in their looks. But you go into a rainforest and you’d expect to hear, you know, birds chirping and, you know, all you’d hear, you know, were the little coquís, the little frogs, you know, like this, you know, and almost nothing else. It was almost spooky. Interviewer: Alright, and were there any kind of distinctive events that took place while you were there or things that disrupted the routine other than worries about the Puerto Rican violence? I think I disrupted the routine more than anything else. Once again, I get down there and every time you take an observation you log it in the book and you’re supposed to initial it with your first and last initials, which in my case would have been SS for Susan Strum. Those initials were already taken, so then we look at “Well, what about your middle initial, last name? To be MS?” already taken. This is an office that’s only got, like, less than 20 people in it! So, “Okay, what about first name, middle initial? SM?” It’s taken. I don’t know what I’m supposed to—they had to get special permission from someplace else for me to use 3 initials and to this day I sign everything with SMS, you know, it just became ingrained in me during my time there. “Why do you use 3 initials?” I can’t do it any other way. But it was interesting being the first woman in the office with some adjusting, but, you know, everybody was really helpful and we all, you know, you kind of worked as teams and, you know, especially if you worked 11 hour days and 13 hour nights so you kind of take turns literally, you know, curling up under the drafting board, you know, one of you would stay awake the other would take a nap, you know. Couple hours later, you know, you’d switch. Only, you know, problem that came with this is in somebody’s infinite wisdom the weather office was located on the parking lot side away from the air field. We had to go out and, you know, we were responsible for maintaining reports on the weather on the air field. Well we couldn’t see it! We either had to, you know, wait for our equipment which was out in the air field to start, you know, if it was raining, you know, we had measured, you know, we had equipment that would measure it and it would—we did have computers, it would come in and measure into the computer and we would read off the measurements, you know, etc. but they were, you know, giant ENIAC type things and, you know, all they did was tell you what �happened but nothing beyond that. You had to figure out what the numbers meant or, you know, the air traffic controllers who fortunately did have a view of the air field, you know, would say, “Hey guys, it’s raining out here, you wanna come take an observation?” and then depending on what the situation was, especially, you know, because the land was so flat you get a lot of, you know, it didn’t take oftentimes much rain to cause major flooding and there were several instances while we were there of people trying to, you know, do what they tell you to this day: if you see running water across the road, don’t try and cross it. Well, somebody was all “I gotta get back to the base” or “I’m meeting somebody” and get washed away and drowned. So, you know, we could send out our reports to the other weather stations through the teletype in the office, stay nice and dry. Unfortunately for flood warnings and things like that had to go to the communications center, which it was about the opposite end of the base. On my shift I was the only one with a military driver's license, the guys had all managed to lose theirs. One of them by passing the base commandant’s car, I mean… guys, its got flags on it! He’s got an escort, what were you thinking, we’re lucky he was able to stay in the Navy without losing any rating! So that was always real fun because the only time that you had to do it was if the weather was really nasty, and so you’re going to the, you know, you’re doing, you know, water’s over the road? Doesn’t matter you gotta get to the comms center, you know, and then you gotta get back. Interviewer: Now were you driving Jeeps or regular cars or pickup trucks? (52:19) Pickup truck. Interviewer: Okay. You know… stick, on the column. Interviewer: And did you ever drive through running water? Oh absolutely. And over land crabs—they had these huge crabs that I don’t think were edible, I never knew of it, but they were, I swear to God, the size of plates and, you know, the rain would wash them up and you’d just hear them cracking under the wheel and there were times I’d come back to the office and I would just be, you know, I’m sobbing because I’ve killed so many of these crabs and of course by the next day the rain has washed them all away or somebody has eaten them, you know, and the road’s clear again and I’m like, “But it’s gonna happen again! I don’t wanna do this, can’t somebody get another driver’s license!” Interviewer: Alright. Now thinking about the time you spent in Puerto Rico are there other aspects of that experience that stand out for you? �It was fairly calm for the tropics. We had no hurricanes while I was there, we had, you know, some winds but fortunately for me I decided when my time to get out came I had, you know, saved up a 30 days leave and I chose to, you know, you could either, you know, stay to your end and cash it out, you know, or you could use it or a portion thereof. Well, I chose to use it and, you know, came back to Muskegon and enrolled in community college and got all set for, you know, I could star the Fall semester which had I stayed there for the 30 days the semester would have already started and it would have, you know, I could have tried to play catch up but, you know, just didn’t feel like that would be a real good idea so I got everything done here and then went and spent about a week and a half at Great Lakes in a transitional barracks while they processed my paperwork, came back and jumped into classes at MCC and… got going. Well in the meantime, during those 30 days a hurricane developed and there were 2 or 3 guys who were supposed to be getting out at the same time I did and they all got their time in service extended for a good 6 months and experienced a hurricane. Because we were on the far, you know, eastern edge so we got the first full brunt of anything coming through the tropics and… Interviewer: So if you had stayed there… It’s an experience that I really, you know… Interviewer: Were they extended because it was just a lot of work to be done to repair the base? Yeah because the weather office, you know, we still had to do something. I ended up, you know, spending about 30 years in Florida so I ended up with enough experience in the tropical storms and close to hurricanes that, you know, made up for missing one in Puerto Rico. Interviewer: Now had your plan always been to just do one enlistment and then leave? (55:25) I really wasn’t sure, you know, my original plan had been to do the three year but then in order to get the additional training I had to add an additional not quite a full year, but it was close to it, so I actually ended up spending close to 4 years, you know, which made the Navy and Air Force practically identical in the end run, but I decided finally at the end that since they said, you know, “Sign the paperwork then we’ll talk.” I think I’m like, “Eh, I’d really rather like to talk first.” But in the end I said that it’s not what I’m going to do, I’m gonna get out and use the GI bill to go back and I think I know what I want to do and I think this may be an area that I’m really interested in so, you know, I came back to community college because living at home didn’t, you know, JC didn’t cost that much so I used very little of my money. Then after I got my Associates degree and went back up to Edmonton where I was originally from to the University of Alberta, which is the university my father had gone to, thinking I was going to major in �meteorology cause they—it was between them and Michigan State and having been gone for 4 years Michigan State was just a little too close, you know. Mom and Dad would want me home every weekend or they would be showing up to school every weekend and then I just, you know, I was not ready for that. I had moved on, so, you know, 2000 miles worked out. As it turns out, you know, I decided it really wasn’t, I enjoyed the social sciences more than the others so I switched to Social Geography, ended up with a degree in Urban Geography with a minor in Sociology and then came back to Muskegon where the employment was a little bit better but not a whole lot. So I spent some time working for my father and his engineering office and he designed electrical-mechanical for buildings and was also very active in the initial renovation and restoration of the Hackney and Hume houses here in Muskegon, so, you know, any time anybody was home we got hauled in on that, you know. As a separate thing and then I got hired by Muskegon county in their planning department, but after just about 2 years they decided to eliminate the department and so basically said, “Use our resources to find yourselves other jobs.” and they had one fellow who they transferred to working for the bus garage as a planner and the other two of us were just kind of left to our own devices to find things and I decided at that point it was a good time to get a graduate degree, so I ended up going to the University of Pennsylvania in City and Regional Planning and while I was there I was offered a job by the city of Orlando as a planner and I took that job and then spent pretty much the next 30 years working in Florida. Initially, you know, doing a little bit of everything: housing, law enforcement, fire planning, some environmental and then ended up specializing in affordable housing, working with first time home buyers and non-profits that provided housing for disabled and very low income households and that was real rewarding. Interviewer: Yeah and I guess how much building goes on in Florida, there as populated as everything else and it’s probably a lot of business there. Yes, yes, yes. And the program I worked for actually was a grant program, but it was funded through the sales of property. A certain portion of the taxes went into a trust fund which worked really well for awhile until the governor discovered, you know, and several governors discovered that they were allowed to scoop some of the money out to balance their budgets and the money became less and less and fortunately—or unfortunately that kind of tied in with my retirement date and considering that my supervisor also did historic preservation, which I had some knowledge of but was not, you know, the expert she was so I couldn’t take her position and the other person in the office made about half of what I did and plus I was the only one at retirement age, so it just worked out, you know, provincially that the money ran out, my time, you know, was, you know, clicking as well. I retired in 2012, moved back to Muskegon, 2013 became a volunteer here at the Silversides and the rest is history. Interviewer: Now, back at the time that you spent in the Navy, how would you characterize the climate for women at that time? (1:00:26) �Most of the time it was very good, there were a couple instances where individuals themselves, you know, caused problems but overall the Navy was really pretty receptive, at least where I was. We did have one incident or a senior chief petty officer at Lakehurst who was stationed there for some other reason, had nothing to do with our school, but he insisted on coming to the graduation parties and he outranked pretty much everybody in the program and the officers had told him to stay away and what are you gonna do? And he would go, you know, fondle these poor—and these kids, you know, I don’t know they’re 18, 19 years old they’re terrified of this guy cause they should be, and, you know, our instructors and everything just kind of, you know, when it gets time for our class to have the parties, you know, I’ve heard about this guy, I’m watching and I’m trying to keep him away from some of the younger ones but hey, well, he grabbed me and I bit him. I bit his arm, and I bit him hard, I drew blood. Interviewer: I take it that actually worked? It did. I got congratulations for months after that when people found where I was because he never came back, he had to go to the, you know, to the base hospital cause I had broken the skin and he had to explain to them what had happened and I had, you know, lots of witnesses and he never bothered, you know, the AD school again. You know, I mean I was sorry it came to that, you know, but I’m glad I, you know, was in a position to do something however distasteful it was. Cause talking to this guy didn’t work but other than that everybody I worked with, you know, for the most part was—I mean there was always some hesitancy first, when you’re the first woman in the office, you know, “What’s she gonna be like?” But, you know, hey I went to the same school and, you know, learned the same things you guys did, knew the same training and had the same opportunity. Interviewer: And I guess the working environments that you worked at were ones where usually that many people make a small group, like some of these meteorological things, or even with the disbursement thing here in the office where the Lieutenant Commander’s right there, and the Filipinos were they female, male? (1:03:11) Male. I was the only female in that office, there were other females stationed in the main office but I was the only one in the sub-office. Interviewer: But in those places you might well not have had a subculture that was conducive to harassment or anything like that. No. Interviewer: Cause it pops up periodically and it happens in service. �Oh absolutely, yeah I mean, I have heard horror stories. Fortunately nothing other than that one instance which I just relayed to you, you know, was affected by it, thankfully. Interviewer: Alright. I mean, to look back on it now, what do you think you took out of your time in the Navy or what did you learn from it? I mean it was a great experience. I learned patience, you know, I learned to focus. When I went back to MCC I teased, you know, there were a lot of the same professors and staff there and I went from, you know, the Dean’s uh-uh list to the Dean’s mmhm list, you know? And he recognized it and, you know, it was encouraging. Interviewer: Alright. Well the whole thing makes for a good story so thank you for coming and sharing it today. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context StrumS2310V Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Strum, Susan Margaret Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-06 Title A name given to the resource Strum, Susan (Interview transcript and video), 2019 Description An account of the resource Susan Strum was born in Alberta, Canada, in 1951 and grew up in Michigan after her father’s work moved to the United States. Her father was a Canadian citizen working for a telephone company in Edmonton and her mother was a schoolteacher in Michigan. After graduating high school in 1969, Strum enrolled into Muskegon Community College, but the poor job market deterred her from completing her degree and she began looking into the military as a viable alternative. She enlisted into the Navy in 1971 once she earned her full American citizenship. For Basic Training, Strum was sent to Bainbridge, Maryland, where she described the induction process as oddly organized. She was trained as a Dispersing Clerk and was transferred to a Naval Training Center in San Diego, California, for another ten weeks of training on how to calculate payrolls and use calculators while in sexually integrated courses. From there, she was stationed in Charleston, South Carolina, for a year where she handled payrolls for several Navy detachments on the base. Strum later began training in recognizing precipitation types, meteorology, and weather patterns in Lakehurst, New Jersey, from 1973-75. After graduation, she was transferred to a Naval base at Roosevelt Roads, Puerto Rico, where she was assigned to the base’s Weather Office. While at Roosevelt Roads, Strum was more concerned with the unstable, violent political situation in Puerto Rico than with the ongoing war in Vietnam. She was also the first woman assigned to the Weather Office at Roosevelt Roads. From there, Strum decided to leave the Navy since she had accrued enough service points, was discharged, and returned to Muskegon, Michigan, where she re-enrolled into Muskegon Community College. She graduated with a degree in urban geography and a minor in sociology and went on to study regional planning at the University of Pennsylvania for her graduate degree. Strum was then hired by the city of Orlando as a regional planner and proceeded to spend the next thirty years of her career in Florida before retiring in 2012. She then moved back to Muskegon and began volunteering at the USS Silversides Museum. Reflecting upon her service, Strum believed the climate for women in the military was, for the most part, good despite some isolated instances of gender conflict. She ultimately believed her time in the Navy was a great experience which taught her the values of patience, focus, and discipline. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States—History, Military Veterans Video recordings Korean War, 1950-1953—Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0056e326d42642edf55d89c0dfd3ca82.pdf 1d41724209863e7264e18bcc87a67e65 PDF Text Text u-~~ ~ ~~ L.:. t!/2._ IJ'--z;,,r- .z_/ fl::; f j'',J'J- / 4 ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~-~~ ~~ ,-?-- ~ 0 ~ /,:r.-~.;::::__:; ~ r - ~ - ,.~ ~ ~/~ ~ ,?«-___,,__L-<..-., /~ ~~ J ~ ~ ~ ~~~- ~~~r-~ ~ -~ ~~/~~ ~ ~ '/ f / 7 ~ 7-- ~ h-/~ 7---' ~ ~ / ~- ~ ~ 0 ~ ~ ~ ~~- ~/~ ~-~ .~- - ~/7-z-r-~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ , ; L _ . ~ ~ ~ ~ L - ~ ; / ~- J ~'-:? ,4--£-£- ~ ~ ~~~ ~ ,?.__ d;,·4 ~ ~ · ~-/~'- 7 ~ ~ 7';/~'~ / ~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~-~ i k , _ L ~ - ~ ~ ~~/~~~~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~~ h/~ ~ /~-~~ ~ ~~/~ ~ /- ·~ ; ~ P r ~ ~ ~/. ~~~ ~~~ / 4,./2_,_, ~ d. ., ~~~ ~~ ~~~/~-~ /- ~~~~ ~ . ~ 'l'r'~ ~ ~ 7- ~ ~ - ~~~ ~ ~ ' ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 7 ' ~ ( ~~-~ - . ~ ~~~ ,c;;--J--u ~-~_} ~ / ~- ~ ~ ~ ~~ �rS ~ c-~~r-~~ =~~ . h--, ~ - ~ o/ ~ ~ ~ - ~ L;;;- ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~'~ ~ - - -~ ~ L - - ~ ,n,__._, ~ pl--~~ - ..._ ~• 4~ . - - - - f - ~,.___-,- --7 / J;L ~ ,t_,7' ~ ~ /<--- ~ 4i/'~ ~~ ' ~-- ~~ ~ ~ ~- ~.,---....__ ~ ~ - ~ o/~ /-/'--' -----;;/~ ' /T;7--- e/'~ ~ ~ ~ • ~ -. . ~ - ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~-~ ~ rrh~ _,, - -"-- -..A" .._--~ - ~ . --- . --:;:, ~--, ~ ~ /~- ~ ~~ /~~ ~ A ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ - . ~~~~ ~ ~ / - ·+ ~d ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ /4-- ~ ~ )- ~ ~ ~ ~ ~)' ~ - ~ ~~ ' ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ / r- ~ ~ /~37 . 7- ~ .~. ~ £/"'~ ' / ~~ / ~ 1/~ 4z--- ~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~ ' < ~ - ~ . . ~ - ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ 6Z.~ <- f--v-~ ~ . 7-- £%..--LL-~ .d ./1.- . r ~ . ......... ~ ---- ~ ~-c.-- ~ ~ - ~~~ ~ ~ ........_ / ~ / ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ' - ,z.-, / ::---- r~ - -- I~ ~ ~ ----£---4'- 7- ~-:;----._- --- ~~ ~ Lu - ~ ~ ~ / '--- - '-- ~ ~ ~~/ .,, ./ ~ - ~ ~ - ----- ~ ~~ u-r-- 7~~~- ~ ~~ ~ ~ ff7~ ~ u-j{--- ~/ 1---v ~ ~' ~ ~~ ~ ' �7 4--7' ~r·~-dv-~-~ ~ - ~ ~~ -~ ~ - - ~L--- ~ ~ ~ ~L~~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ , ~ ~. ~ -- ~ ----- /r7-~/ /:I ~ , ; ,/ ,-~ ~ / - /- ~ .~ - ~~ ~,_____ 4-,.._.--~ ~ ~ ~~ - ( - ~ - - ; r r- ~ - ~-- ~~ - /~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~ 4 - - --r ~ - ~ ~ ~ ~ - ~~ .&...... 7-z--~ -/ ~ c--L-L--/7--r-.__ ~ / ' ' ~~ ~ ~ - ~ rz:.,) p-y--- ~ - £:;--~ L - £ - - ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ - ~ - f r 7- -~ (.__ ~ /4- 0-- ~ ~~~~/ ~ ~h - ~ ~ ~~~ ~~~ ~- d--/J:--.-:~-c-~ ~-- ~ M-~ ' ~-~ , c - ~ ~· ~~ c;A- ~ -~ - ~, ~ - 7 / ' ~ ~~ ~~~ h- ~- ~ ~~- ~ . ~~~ :._,_. - 1~ ' ,...__ 4:r~ / n-z,__,v A- ~ /~ ~ / l h --~ - - ---~ /4-£-LJ- ~ -- ~ ~ ~-~ ~ ~ ' ~ -- /rl---/ -- ~ ~ ~ / . - ~ 0-~- 0- ~ ~ / ~ - ,/ ~ - ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ l ~ /~~ ~ ~ ~~ £!,-~ /4.-7 -r-//-- ·½ ---/4.._- 7- ~-~--- 4/~~~ ~ ~~~- ~ L~~ ~ ~ . _ ? ~~ -?--77~-~~G~«,::J/ ~ ~ I ~ ~ ~/~ ~ ~ L~ ~ I /-- ~ -~~ /--~~~ - / ~----- ~~ ~ - ~4L.--~~ - ~~ ~~ 42-~ ~ /4.--- ~7- ~ - ~ ~~ ~ �~ ~ A-- ~ v--~~-7=-L--~~...-,,~ / ,d-,>~ ~I r/-· ~ ~ ~ 'J ::/~ ~ ~ . ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~~ / n,-~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ /:,-~ ~ ~ ~ ,7 ~ ~ ~- n:= ' ~~ ~ - ~~ ~ -~~ /J A ~L - f ~ (t'·+--= ~ ~~~ , ~ ~ / ~I ~ ~ .--- 4v-c-- ~ - ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ L~v~~ ~-~ _ '\ 4 c-v I / - '.n..--z~ ~ : 4!-i-~-:- ~ L----c--> lr) - r.:, ' 1 ~ -~ r4-~ c ; ; - ~ ~ ~/- ~ ~ ~µ...L_ ~ p --,..._ ~ ~ r--_ ~ P/- ~-/4-2!'2«--? ~- ~ ~ - ~ I . /~ / ~ ~ . ~ £r,..,__.,;LL--~ / J ~ _ : ; 4 , / 1 ~ ~~ 7- ~ - ~ ~ ~- /... .- ~~~ ~~ ' ~,_,£ ) ' . ./ r/-- ~ . / ~ / / - ~ ~~~'L-~ ~~ ~ ">/'y >--,~fi,/7 41./'~ /. ~ ~~ / - 6 ~ ./J: 7' ~ 'l1/~~~ ~ ~ ~ A ?,_A ~--:7 ,e;- L A - , - ~ ' / ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ -~ ~ - t ·~ .....__ ~ - v;L~~~ _,t') ~ ~ ,? ~ ~-~ · .~rz~ ~4- ...h~4-=1 . ~ I'~ ~ ,,_::, fr;_;:_~ ~ ~ ~ ~ -- ~ :---__ ~ ~ ~ ~-~ ~ ~ ~ _£,J ~-- /4--- ' - - A / -I , s-r ~ P ' / - - - L - - ~ ~ 0---- r ~ o/~- ~ , r- ~ ~ ~ l ~ 4~ ' r ~ / ,fe-:_ :~~- 7"--/"'-~ ~ ~-Pc---, - ~~ ?--'/~C~L'~'-.[:;'v-?·_- z.:~ ~ ~~~£~~ //7-- ~ v-? ~ ,;,;7-L---6 - ~ ,/ _/ v // ~ - ?c.__ ~ / ~ -- ~ f ~ fl,___ ~. , / ~ ~ - � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dd8c3b0b8029b58bae143ce02ea07b3e.pdf 1e9b6a724d1fa56b8cbfb9e50cc9a37b PDF Text Text [Page 1] Staunton, Va. Oct 27th, 1855 My dear Sir, I have been absent from home for sometime in attendance on one of my foreign courts; & have therefore been compelled to delay my reply to your letter. I am satisfied that you are right in regard to the policy which should be pursued by the opponents of the present administration in the next campaign --- the nomination should be made by the Whigs & seconded by the American party --- I did all I could to impress the importance of that policy on the opposition party in Virginia last winter, but without success --- if my counsel had prevailed there would have been no difficulty in defeating Wise but unfortunately the American party was comprised of young ambitious Whigs and dissatisfied democrats who worked to set aside the old leaders of the Whig party & to monopolize all the officers & jurors of the state. With this view they repudiated & announced, the Whig party (thinking they were strong enough to do without them) & put them on the same �[Page 2] footing with foreigners as to ineligibility to office. The natural affect was to alienate the Whigs from the American ticket & to drive many into the democratic ranks, whilst others remained neutral. It is now a matter of notoriety that Wise was elected by Whig votes --He stumped the whole state making all sorts of misrepresentations of the principles and purposes of the American party, & in consequence of the ridiculous rule in regard to secrecy, there was no one to reply to him. If a Whig had been in the field, he could have made the issues on the misdeeds of the democracy, & by quoting Wise’s own speeches from 1837 to ’41, he could have overwhelmed the “fearless tribune” with confusion. The Americans now see & deplore their folly. The only difficulty in the way of accomplishing the result we all have in view --- the defeat/result of the democracy --- is, in bringing about a cordial co-operation of the elements of opposition. The espirit de corps of the different parties is so great, that it �[Page 3] is difficult to get them to coalesce as long as they fight under different banners --- my view was to endeavor to raise a new flag, under which a great Constitutional Union party, comprised of the conservative Whigs, the national democrats, & the Americans, could cordially come together, without any sacrifice of principle. It is a difficult thing to get Whigs to assume the names of democrats, or democrats to take that of Whigs, or either to become Americans or vice versa. By taking a new name, a name descriptive of the objects of the party, & comprehensive enough to embrace conservative men of all parties, all can come in without any sacrifice of pride or old prejudices, & act together in harmony. The great & cherished objects of the Whigs, the Hard-Shell Democrats, & the Americans, are the preservation of the Constitution as it is & the Union as it is. What objection could either of these parties then have to a union under the Common name of Constitutional Union men? If they expect to succeed, they must unite in some way --will they not be more likely to unite under a common name �[Page 4] and a common organization, then under their distinct names, & organizations? How can you bring these separate conventions to act together, or how can you bring three separate parties into one convention? Here lies the difficulty. If the Whigs make the nominations, what assurances have we that the American party, or the National democrats will adopt their nominations? They will complain that they were not committed, & had no voice in the matter I fear. From that the result will be as it has been in Virginia. If we could get the National Intelligencer to lead off in favor of a great Constitutional Union party, I believe we could rally to its support all the conservatives of the country. Bernard Winthrop & all men of that stamp would soon fall in, & I believe the Americans would promptly follow --- as would Dickinson & Co of N.Y. A common opposition to democracy would be a common bond of union --- Without something of the kind, the opposition will be split up, & the democrats will carry the day by a plurality of votes. Yours cordially Alex H.H. Stuart � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-44_NS1-15437 Title A name given to the resource Nathan Sargent from Alexander Hugh Holmes Stuart, October 27, 1855 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1855-10-27 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stuart, Alexander H. H. (Alexander Hugh Holmes), 1807-1891 Description An account of the resource Letter expressing Holmes's desire that a Constitutional Union Party be formed for the 1856 election. Subject The topic of the resource Sargent, Nathan, 1794-1875 Hunt, Washington, 1811-1867 Whig Party (U.S.) United States--Politics and government--19th century United States--Officials and employees Lockport (N.Y.) Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent papers, (RHC-44)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/84a966cce20f03c84ce07a8c97ade735.jpg eac0d2b8876a85a025469221293b386d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Michigan Novels Collection. PS3515.O643 P3 1909 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0023 Title A name given to the resource Pa Flickinger's Folks Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stuart, Bertha (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of Pa Flickinger's Folks, by Bessie R. Hoover, published by Harper & Brothers, 1909. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1e98a30252179b5c8cbab5b1e4f2db5e.jpg f179a2743a615a02ee42c32a9f814ca9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Michigan Novels Collection. PZ7.R168 Da 1946 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0033 Title A name given to the resource Dandelion Cottage Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stuart, Bertha (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of Dandelion Cottage, by Carroll Watson Rankin, published by H. Holt and Company, 1946. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1946 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e825ac2d2acee42a18e5503ec23f6e74.jpg c5f0f81a297581ba165ea76b29649491 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Regional Historical Collection. PS3503.E1135 B37 1908 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0068 Title A name given to the resource The Barrier: A Novel Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stuart, Bertha (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of The Barrier: A Novel, by Rex Beach, published by Harper & Bros., 1908. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1908 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/47cdd0a41c80f999efbeb46d7bc673c1.jpg b0673d2d062b3bdbb0f54d8a36851fc2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. PS3501.U8 A6 1909 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0463 Title A name given to the resource Lost Borders Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stuart, Bertha (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of Lost Borders, by Mary Austin, published by Harper & Brothers, 1909. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fc9d1a2f6cc6d92445f5547dcfc09108.pdf 516fed43bc547ca9ffdb7fdfe4c0a333 PDF Text Text �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-45_CW-0179 Title A name given to the resource Abraham Lincoln's first law partner John T. Stuart Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1837-08-26 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stuart, John Todd, 1807-1885 Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Lincoln, Abraham, 1809-1865 Stuart, John Todd, 1807-1885 Description An account of the resource John T. Stuart, Abraham Lincoln's first law partner from April 12, 1837 until May 14, 1841. Print from portrait in the office of Mr. Logan Hay. Signed declaration of responsibility for costs, dated August 26, 1837. Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Civil War and slavery collection (RHC-45): http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5ed059593e6593c3fec5e20e931e7e0f.m4v f748134c0f462287ccb52e1925c10c94 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e9988e39f025d6fe67bd11b17488b840.pdf 2e7e51e81140e5b886f42cb0efed04a6 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project Rick Sturim Cold War-Vietnam War Era 1 hour 3 minutes 32 seconds (00:00:40) Early Life -Born in Brooklyn, New York on October 21, 1942 -Lived in Brooklyn until he was about five, or six years old -Family moved to Hawthorne, New Jersey -Lived there for four years -Moved to Fair Lawn, New Jersey -Mother and father were from Hell's Kitchen in New York City -Father served in the Navy during World War II -Stationed at Naval Station Norfolk, Virginia -Father worked in printing & silk, ran a hobby shop, and worked for Curtiss-Wright until retirement -Graduated from high school in 1960 (00:03:05) College & Air Force Reserve Officers' Training Corps Pt. 1 -Went to Newark College of Engineering (now called the New Jersey Institute of Technology) -Studied there for four years -Majored in mechanical engineering -Joined the Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) -In his junior year of college he selected mechanical engineering as his main focus -Only able to join the Air Force ROTC because it was the only ROTC offered at the college -Had always been interested in automobiles and mechanical devices -Didn't pay a lot of attention to the Cold War during college -Went to Otis Air Force Base (now Otis Air National Guard Base), Massachusetts for summer training -Met President Kennedy -Saw how much the presidency had aged him -Shortly after that visit, President Kennedy was assassinated -Commissioned as a 2nd lieutenant and received his orders in 1964 -Originally supposed to receive training as a weatherman -He was captain of the ROTC rifle and the college rifle team -Part of a local fraternity (00:06:23) Jewish Heritage & Population -Never experienced any religious or ethnic discrimination due to being Jewish -Family name was originally Sturimski, but was changed to Sturim at Ellis Island -Parents had grown up in a Jewish and European community in the United States -There was a sizable Jewish population in Fair Lawn, New Jersey (00:08:14) Air Force Reserve Officers' Training Corps Pt. 2 -Not a lot of traditional military training in the ROTC -Taught protocol in the Air Force -Didn't do a lot of marching -Had to keep your uniform clean and presentable -Not a lot of preparation for military life (00:08:53) Training at Chanute Air Force Base -Reported to Chanute Air Force Base, Illinois in December 1964 -Placed in an older barracks �-Stopped at the Officers' Club to establish his bearings -Tried to order a beer available on the East Coast, and the bartender had no idea what it was -The next day he and the other officers met at the Officers' Club to go to classes -Two sessions of classes -Started in the early morning and got done at noon -Second session was from 1 p.m. to 6 p.m. -Received training as an Aircraft Maintenance Officer -Repair and maintenance training -Learned how to remove the engines -Flew a Lockheed T-33 and a Lockheed Constellation with a trainer -Had not signed up to be a pilot -Mother didn't want him to fly out of concern for his safety -Trained for seven months at Chanute Air Force Base -Led marches during Pass-in-Review (marching past an officer for inspection) -Did it during the warmer weather -Led the enlisted men during the Pass-in-Review (00:13:42) Getting Married -Got married to Harriet (Sturim) in the last six weeks of training at Chanute Air Force Base -Note: Based on Harriet's interview they got married on June 12, 1965 -Married for 50 years as of the interview -Met at a Jewish youth group as adolescents -Went to the same middle school and high school -Separate social circles -Attended separate colleges -Met up again in Fair Lawn, New Jersey between his junior and senior year of college -Started dating after that (00:15:58) Assignment to Chanute Air Force Base & Ramey Air Force Base -Original orders to become a meteorologist changed which led to training at Chanute Air Force Base -Got a month off after completing training at Chanute Air Force Base -Had honeymoon with Harriet while he waited for his new orders -Flew to Puerto Rico on August 13, 1965 -Landed at San Juan -Flew in his Air Force dress uniform -Bused from San Juan to Ramey Air Force Base -Bus broke down due to battery problems -Driver called for help and Puerto Rican men came out of shacks to push the bus -Pushed it until the battery restarted -Changed his perception of Puerto Ricans (00:18:46) Anti-War/Anti-Military Protests Pt. 1 -Encountered anti-war/anti-military sentiments while in college -Wore his ROTC uniform around college and encountered harassment (00:20:30) Vietnam War Pt. 1 -Not aware of the escalation of the conflict in Vietnam in the early 1960s -Didn't pay attention to the Vietnam War while at Chanute Air Force Base (00:21:00) Stationed at Ramey Air Force Base Pt. 1 -Placed in the Visiting Officers' Quarters at Ramey Air Force Base -Squadron commander invited him and Harriet to go to their house -Duplex house and ready for them to move in when they arrived -Two bedrooms, a living room, a dining room, and a kitchen �-Had an outdoor laundry room -Stationed in Puerto Rico for three years -Base needed aircraft maintenance officers -Started out as the flight-line maintenance officer -Went from plane to plan to see if work needed to be done on them -Had a wide variety of aircraft -16 B-52Gs (nuclear loaded bombers) -16 KC-135s (tankers) -2 U-3As (communications aircraft) -2 C-54s (transport aircraft; flown during the Berlin Airlift relief mission) -Also had C-45 CAPs (utility aircraft) -Oversaw maintenance of the base aircraft -Insured repairs were done if necessary -Signed-off on forms allowing for flight -Worked with good men -Many of them veterans of WWII -He was in the Organizational Maintenance Squadron -Coordinated maintenance with other maintenance squadrons -Had three markings to designate aircraft flight readiness -Red / meant it needed repair, red x meant it was unsafe for flight, – meant it was safe to fly -Up to him if an aircraft was safe to fly (00:26:40) Non-commissioned Officers & Commissioned Officers at Ramey Air Force Base Pt. 1 -One man flew in the China-Burma-India Theater in WWII -One man flew in a B-17 bomber as a gunner and shot down a German Me-109 fighter plane -One man flew a P-51 fighter plane during the war -Rick was a young, new officer and had the least experience -Worked with senior sergeants who had years of experience -Learned about aircraft through them -Had one senior master sergeant that made that rank before Rick was born -Had served nine months during World War II -Had to have respect for his non-commissioned officers -Officers that didn't respect the NCOs didn't do well as officers -Had officers that he reported to -His superior, squadron commander, and administrative officer -Worked with two other flight-line maintenance officers (00:30:28) Stationed at Ramey Air Force Base Pt. 2 -Had six bombers, and six tankers on alert at all times -Outfitted for electronic warfare and carried nuclear weapons -Rest of the bombers flew training missions every third day -Had to provide status for every aircraft (00:31:45) Non-commissioned Officers & Commissioned Officers at Ramey Air Force Base Pt. 2 -Worked closely with enlisted men a lot of the time because they did a lot of the work -Had to respect and cooperate with the enlisted men -Had a work relationship similar to a civilian workplace -Listened to the non-commissioned officers for advice -Lower in rank, but they had more experience -Went from the rank of 2nd lieutenant, to 1st lieutenant, to captain while in Puerto Rico -Normal for a junior officer to be stationed at a base for three years -Chance for a new officer to gain experience �(00:33:58) Cold War Pt. 1 -Had alerts -Bomber and tanker crews went to their aircraft and turned on the engines -Sometimes taxied onto the runway -Had to be ready at all times -He was part of the Mobility Team -In the event of nuclear war the B-52s took off first, followed by the KC-135 tankers -Mobility Team flew to a civilian airbase to wait for a tanker with maintenance equipment -Flew them to a foreign country's airport -Repair and refuel B-52s after a bombing run to get back to the U.S. -B-52Gs did flights from Puerto Rico to the Mediterranean Sea and flew around that area -Refueled twice during the flight -Flight took 27 hours -Two B-52s flew at a time and were armed with nuclear weapons -In case one dropped out, another B-52 could join the first (00:37:15) Aircraft at Ramey Air Force Base -Refueled the SR-71 Blackbird and U-2 spy planes -Refueled B-25s from Venezuela -Serviced National Guard F-84s, F-86s, Canberra bombers, and F-104s -Puerto Rican pilots trained with the F-104s -Did training missions “attacking” the B-52s -A few of the pilots crashed their F-104s in the ocean -Difficult aircraft to handle (00:38:22) Dominican Republic Revolution -A pilot from the Dominican Republic flew his P-51 to Puerto Rico to seek asylum -There was civil unrest and revolution in 1965 and 1966 -Note: U.S. Army's 82nd Airborne Division was eventually deployed to the country -Relatively little activity at Ramey Air Force base during the revolution -Wouldn't have used nuclear weapons in that situation, but they were placed on alert (00:39:56) Cold War Pt. 2 -U-2 spy planes flew out of Ramey Air Force Base -Conducting “high altitude weather monitoring” -Coincidentally, the spy planes always flew over Cuba (00:40:14) B-52 Crash -Remembers a B-52 crashing off the coast of Puerto Rico -Three, out of seven, crewmen survived -He was placed on the accident investigation team -Learned about the details of the crash later in life -Life raft inflated and pushed the copilot into the plane's controls -At 1,500 feet there was no chance to recover (00:42:54) Vietnam War Pt. 1 -Vietnam War escalated during his time at Ramey Air Force Base -Supported the war with KC-135 tankers and sent over B-52 bomber crew -Talked with the bomber crews after they returned from missions in Vietnam (00:44:00) Stationed at Kincheloe Air Force Base -Sent to Kincheloe Air Force Base in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan -Would've been sent to Vietnam if he stayed in the Air Force -Didn't go to Vietnam because the B-52Gs were nuclear bombers, not conventional bombers -In August 1968 he and Harriet moved to Kincheloe Air Force Base �-Maintenance supervisor at Kincheloe Air Force Base -Had five officers and 177 enlisted men in his command -Sought out the non-commissioned officers and asked for their advice -Had cherry-pickers with heaters to de-ice the aircraft during the winter -Worked with WWII and Korean War veterans -Shared his office with one non-commissioned officer -During the Christmas of 1968 the base got hit with heavy snow -Had to move the aircraft to one side of the runway, clear it, then move it back -That non-commissioned officer helped him with that job -Had mutual respect for each other (00:48:23) Morale of the Men -Had 22 year old crew chiefs working on the KC-135s and B-52s in Puerto Rico -Took responsibility for aircraft and took care of their planes on their time-off -Took pride in their work -Enlisted men worked well -Had practical skills and knowledge from civilian life prior to Air Force service -Technical sergeants and higher-ranking sergeants effectively ran things at air bases (00:50:00) Aero-Club -Part the Aero-Club in Puerto Rico as a maintenance officer -Got his private pilot's license -Had Puerto Rican nationals working on the civilian aircraft in the Aero-Club (00:50:43) Operational Readiness Inspections -Had Operational Readiness Inspections (ORIs) at random while at Ramey Air Force Base -Mobility Team had its equipment checked -Made sure the planes were ready to fly missions -Ramey Air Force Base passed its ORI with flying colors -Celebrated with the non-commissioned officers and enlisted men -Proud of them at the time, and is still proud of them (00:53:10) Non-commissioned Officers Pt. 3 & Other Airmen -Enlisted men had chosen Air Force because they felt it was the best branch -Worked with Thomas Ferebee -Bombardier on the Enola Gay when it dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima (00:54:00) Son's Air Force Service -One of his sons served in the Air Force -Got a regular commission with the ROTC at Northwestern University -Had to be in top 10% of class to get a regular commission as opposed to reserve commission -Served 25 years in the Air Force -Worked with NATO -Served at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida -Helped with the SEEK EAGLE Program -Certifying weapons, suspension equipment, tanks, and pods on aircraft (00:54:43) Vietnam War Pt. 2 -In 1968 the war turned political as opposed to military -Placed limits on military movement and combat in Vietnam -Discussed the war while at Kincheloe Air Force Base -Men just wanted the military to be able to do its job in the war without restraint (00:56:03) Race in the Air Force -Had one black, chief master sergeant in his squadron -He was a nice man, but had a little problem passing physical tests �-Didn't see any racial tension, specifically -Some issues existed with the Puerto Rican servicemen due to a language barrier -Some of the enlisted Puerto Rican servicemen lacked dedication (00:58:07) End of Service -Oldest son, first child, was born in Puerto Rico in 1967 at the base hospital at Ramey Air Force Base -Having a child, and more children, influenced his decision to get out of the Air Force -He was a non-rated officer which meant he didn't have wings which means he couldn't fly -Couldn't take the squadron commander's position -Vietnam War was winding down which meant less work for the military -In August 1969 he was released from active duty (00:59:17) Life after Service -Moved to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania -Had a job with Continental Can while in college -Got his job back with them and worked as a project engineer -Lived there for four years -Moved to Bradford, Pennsylvania and worked for Corning Glass -Moved to New Jersey and worked for Crescent Wire & Cable -Moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan -Got a job with Walter Hagen Golf Gear -Got a job at Cascade Engineering -Got a job with the Domtar Mine (gypsum mining company) -Started an auto-repair business named Steve's Antique Auto Repair -Named after his middle son -Started off as a hobby and turned into a business -Works on cars made in 1972 or older (01:00:59) Reflections on Service -Initially, he didn't think his time in the Air Force would affect him as much as it did (01:00:17) Veterans' Organizations -Involved with the American Legion -Served as post commander for two years -Wife served as the post auxiliary chaplain and as the 5th District auxiliary chaplain -Works with younger veterans coming back from Afghanistan and Iraq -Part of American Legion Post 409 -Friendly post, and hospitable -Sent 150 care packages to soldiers deployed overseas -Volunteers at the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans -Wife helps at the Veterans' Affairs Clinic in Wyoming, Michigan -Also helps with the “No Veteran Dies Alone” program -Insures that no aging veteran dies alone in the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_SturinF1855V Title A name given to the resource Sturim, Frederick P (Interview outline and video), 2015 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-07-09 Description An account of the resource Rick Sturim was born in Brooklyn, New York on October 21, 1942. He attended college at the Newark College of Engineering and joined the Air Force Reserve Officers' Training Corps. He graduated in 1964 and was commissioned in that same year as a 2nd lieutenant. He was trained as an Aircraft Maintenance Officer at Chanute Air Force Base, Illinois from December 1964 through June 1965. In August 1965 he was assigned to Ramey Air Force Base, Puerto Rico where he helped maintain the nuclear weapon-armed B-52 bombers at that base. In August 1968 he was assigned to Kincheloe Air Force Base in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and stayed there until August 1969 when he was discharged from the Air Force. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sturim, Frederick P. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/x-m4v application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0f777a5130f9a82c2272dd300caf8d45.m4v 4b027893246fe0e69114431b96b093fd https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7ef1a72cd287d93d25fa444e50049ac1.pdf f008e89c57a457e2f48f83503c58e822 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project Harriet Sturim Wife of Air Force Veteran, Veterans' Organization Volunteer 42 minutes 5 seconds (00:00:40) Early Life Pt. 1 -Born in the Bronx in New York City -First generation American -Both parents migrated from Germany, fleeing Nazi persecution of Jewish persons -Maternal grandparents were murdered at Bergen-Belsen concentration camp (00:01:15) Father's Military Service -Father was drafted into the United States Army -Parents came to the United States in the early 1930s (1933 or later) -Parents met in New York City -Father was drafted when Harriet was three months old -Sent to Texas for basic training -Had been a butcher's apprentice in Germany -Meant he served in the Army as a cook -Sent to Germany as part of the Army of Occupation -38 years old and one of the oldest men in his unit -Helped as a translator -Commanding officer wanted him to stay in the Army -Refused to sign his discharge paperwork -Wound up having to hide his discharge paperwork in other paperwork to get it signed -Served as a cook and also managed supplies in the kitchen (00:04:44) Early Life Pt. 2 -Born in 1943 -Mother and her moved to Texas to be close to father -Traveled by train -Traveled with troops -They missed their own children and took care of her -Father went on to own a business and work as a butcher in New York City (00:05:45) Meeting Her Husband (Rick Sturim) & Getting Married -In a Jewish youth group together via their synagogue -She got sick and they didn't see each other for eight years -Reconnected in college and got engaged -Graduated from college on June 10, 1965 -Got married on June 12, 1965 (00:06:50) Living at Chanute Air Force Base -Moved to Chanute Air Force Base, Illinois on June 13, 1965 -Rented a small house together -Rick went to classes every day -Had a good time living at Chanute Air Force Base -Had a family next door -Little girl wished she and Rick had brought a daughter to befriend -Befriended other Air Force families -Stayed at Chanute Air Force Base until August 1965 �(00:08:12) Living in Puerto Rico Pt. 1 -Sent to Boston to wait for Rick's new orders -Received orders to be stationed in Puerto Rico -Families weren't happy that they would be in Puerto Rico -Had grown up with Puerto Ricans in New York City -Didn't have good experiences with them -Flew to Puerto Rico on August 13, 1965 -En route to the base the Air Force broke down due to a bad battery -Driver called for help and Puerto Rican men came out of nearby shacks -Pushed the bus until the engine restarted -Totally changed her perception of Puerto Ricans -Placed in the Visiting Officers' Quarters when they arrived at midnight -Commanding officer came and asked if they wanted to move into their new house -House was already set up: dishes, groceries, pots and pans, etc. -Worked for the Department of Defense schools as a speech therapist -Majored in speech therapy in college (00�:12:23) Anti-war/Anti-Military Activity Pt. 1 -Never saw any anti-war/anti-military activity in college -Husband encountered protests while he was in college (00�:12:50) Living in Puerto Rico Pt. 2 -Went to Puerto Rico because of her mother's courage -Left Germany as an 18 year old knowing she'd probably never see her parents again -Enjoyed working in the school in Puerto Rico -Experienced an earthquake -Remembers lizards were everywhere -Little boy brought in one tied to a string as his “pet” (00:14:18) Teaching in Puerto Rico -Taught children of service personnel -Majority of them were Caucasian -Puerto Ricans lived off-base and sent their children to public schools outside of the base -Taught children of enlisted and commissioned (officers) personnel (00:15:11) Wives' Club -Part of a Wives' Club via the Officers' Club -Only two lieutenants on the base -Majority of officers were colonels or generals -Traveled to San Juan, Mayaguez, and Aguadilla with the other wives -Introduced her to Puerto Rico -Wives taught her the unwritten, informal rules about how to conduct herself as an officer's wife -Emphasis on, and celebration of, their husbands' service to the United States (00:17:10) Puerto Rico-Off Base -Aguadilla was the closest town to the base -Note: Means that the base they lived at was Ramey Air Force Base -Made some friends in Aguadilla -Some American personnel never left the base -She and Rick only stayed on the base during times of civil unrest -For example, when there were plebiscites about Puerto Rico gaining statehood -Puerto Ricans welcomed the base because it stimulated the economy and provided jobs -Had a Puerto Rican maid �(00:18:21) Leaving Puerto Rico -Had her first child in December 1967 while they were still in Puerto Rico -Knew Rick was being reassigned sometime in 1968 -Rick's father had a serious heart attack in the summer of 1968 -Rick received his permanent change of station paperwork -Left Puerto Rico within 24 hours of receiving that paperwork -Never returned to Puerto Rico (00:19:07) Living at Kincheloe Air Force Base -Sent to Kincheloe Air Force Base in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan -Arrived at the base in August 1968 -Didn't expect the amount of snow they received -Snow so high that it reached the top of cars -Put orange ping-pong balls on the car antennas -Allowed them to see cars approaching around snow banks -Had snow until the Fourth of July -Lived in a wonderful house -Two-family residence -Had the base golf course as their backyard -Stayed at home and took care of their child -Ran errands and did base activities with the other officers' wives -Adjusted to being out in the heavy snow and the dry cold -Snow was pretty and clean as opposed to the dirty snow she was used to in the city -Glad to leave when the time came, but she enjoyed her time there -Stayed at Kincheloe Air Force Base for a year (00:21:57) Anti-War/Anti-Military Activity Pt. 2 -Living on a military base insulated them from the protests of the late 1960s -Knew the sentiments existed, but didn't affect her or Rick -Didn't focus on the anti-war/anti-military movement(s) because there were none in the community -Usually found out about protests in the country a week after they happened (00:23:27) Women's Movement -Paid more attention to the women's movement in the 1960s -Read books by Betty Friedan (writer, activist, and feminist) -Women's movement made more sense to her than the anti-war/anti-military protests -Empowering -Minimal female service personnel while Rick was in the Air Force -Mostly did clerical work -No pilots or copilots -No contact with female service personnel (00:25:03) Rick's End of Service & Living in Pennsylvania -Rick was discharged from the Air Force in 1969 -Rick had worked for TRW Crescent Wire & Cable before enlisting in the Air Force -Company held a job for him, but in a different city -Lived in Pittsburgh for four years while Rick worked -Did engineering work -Got a promotion with a better salary -Had their second child in Pittsburgh -Moved to Bradford, Pennsylvania -Rick got a job with Corning Glass -She got a job with the Easter Seals preschool doing speech therapy �(00:26:47) Living in New Jersey -Moved to Mercerville, New Jersey -Third child, their daughter, was born there (00:27:03) Living in Michigan -Rick found a new job with a golf equipment company in Grand Rapids, Michigan -Moved to Michigan in 1977 -Experienced the Blizzard of 1978 (“The White Hurricane”) -One of the worst snow storms on record -Grand Rapids area was a good place to raise children -Lived in Wyoming, Michigan; a suburb of Grand Rapids -Children were the only Jewish children in the Wyoming school district -Sent the children to Hebrew School through Temple Emanuel -Open about her family's Jewish faith and heritage -Predominantly Dutch, Christian-Reformed community at the time -Aware of the religion and culture in Fair Lawn, New Jersey (where she grew up) -Only 2% of the population was Jewish in Grand Rapids (00:30:53) Veterans' Organizations -Rick became involved with veterans' organizations -Slowly became involved with the American Legion -In 2012 Kentwood, Michigan she helped organize the Cost of Freedom Tribute -Traveling replica of the Vietnam War Memorial -Served as the chairwoman of the event -Met the Patriot Guard Riders -Motorcyclists that honor veterans and escorted the Cost of Freedom Tribute -Met with Vietnam War veterans -Learned about efforts taken by them to insure new veterans are treated better -Volunteers with numerous veterans' organizations in the Grand Rapids area -Grand Rapids Home for Veterans -Veterans Affairs (VA) Clinic in Wyoming, Michigan -Part of the “No Veteran Dies Alone” program at the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans -Many veterans at the home don't have family members in the area -Makes sure someone is with the veteran when their life is at an end -Always a new veterans' cause to get involved with -Newest efforts are helping female veterans, especially those dealing with sexual trauma -Works within the female veterans circle -No infrastructure in the military to deal with things like harassment or rape -Female veterans are gaining a voice -It's been a long process of getting women into the military -Female, World War II veterans support younger female veterans at Stand Downs -Show them VA benefits, assistance programs, and non-VA veterans' groups/benefits -Help transition women into civilian life and the civilian workplace -State of Michigan does a good job integrating military experience into civilian work -Examples: a medic can become an EMT or a convoy driver can become a truck driver (00:39:25) Reflections -All life's experiences influence you for better, or for worse -Realized that her life has always been impacted by veterans -Daughter of a WWII veteran, wife of a veteran, and mother of an Air Force veteran -Has been to Israel three times -Believes in respecting all people provided they respect her back (in terms of race, religion, etc.) �-Americans served in the military and during war regardless of race, religion, or gender -Things are changing in the military and it needs to be recognized and accepted � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_SturinH1854V Title A name given to the resource Sturim, Harriet (Interview outline and video), 2015 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-07-09 Description An account of the resource Harriet Sturim was born in the Bronx, New York City, New York in 1943 to German immigrants that had fled the Nazi persecution of Jewish citizens in the 1930s. She met her husband, Rick Sturim, in a Jewish youth group as teenagers and reconnected while in college. They married on June 12, 1965 and moved to Chanute Air Force Base, Illinois the next day (where Rick was receiving Aircraft Maintenance Training). She moved to Ramey Air Force Base, Puerto Rico with Rick and worked at the Department of Defense school as a speech therapist and was part of the Wives' Club (extension of the Officers' Club). They stayed at Ramey Air Force Base until August 1968 and then moved to Kincheloe Air Force Base in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan where she continued to do activities with other officers' wives. Rick was discharged in 1969 and they eventually moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1977. She has been involved with numerous veterans' organizations in the Grand Rapids area including the Cost of Freedom Tribute (Vietnam War memorial movement), the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans, the Veterans' Affairs Clinic in Wyoming, Michigan, and the "No Veteran Dies Alone" program at the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sturim, Harriet Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/x-m4v application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e6a111d63bf1a65fe41ac097c6160e58.m4v af6a736dc25f93b4b90c4eeeec24d2a3 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e86d7a6f3a97e69feb362a9410272d1a.pdf aaa40ca5589becb3d6f2a49fd503e292 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Robert Succop World War II Total Time: 48:28 Childhood and Pre-Enlistment (00:20)       Born August 6, 1920 in Petoskey, Michigan Father was a Lutheran minister His family moved to Big Rapids, Michigan and then to Grand Rapids, Michigan after his father died. He attended Central High School in Grand Rapids (02:10) He attended Michigan State College for 1 year, and then in the summer of 1941 he decided to work and try college when he felt more able. (02:50) He decided to enlist after the attacks on Pearl Harbor. He was told when he was there that they army was interested in teachers, so he enrolled and ended up in Chicago, Illinois the following month. Training (03:40)  He did some teaching in Chicago about the basics of electricity  (04:05) He then transferred into the Army as a T4 and was sent to Fort Monmouth, NJ where he took some training.  (05:50) He took Officer Candidate School while he was in Chicago, Illinois  (09:46) He chose the Army because of the Navy’s requirement that they [not?] take married men, otherwise he may have joined the Navy.  (10:47) He found it easier to train than to be trained. He also thinks that the training was inadequate, in that they were trained for combat, but not for the environment they were placed in.  (12:13) He spent most of his training in New Jersey. Active Duty (12:44)     In early 1943, they were sent to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvana and then to New Guinea and then to Hollandia [still in New Guinea] , Biak, the Philippines, and then home. (13:45) He was in the 989th Signal Company. They were in radio teams that used FM radio to communicate weather bulletins. Because of this, they were attached to the 5th Air Force. He was a First Lieutenant attached to one of the relay terminals. (16:55) They were able to do some experimental communications, including sending multiple teletyped messages at once. (17:28) FM had greater value because of the lack of distortion, which is why they were experimenting with it. �          (18:15) They were attacked by bombers on several occasions, but never saw ground combat. (19:55) Their unit had some problems with Dengue Fever. (21:15) They were attached to a MASH unit for mess. (23:25) His wife wrote every day and he tried to write her every day, however communication was difficult. For instance, he heard from his mother that his wife’s appendectomy went well before he knew she was even having one. (24:50) He remembers the food being ok. They had many of the normal things he had at home. (27:50) They had a First Sergeant from Tennessee who was experienced at making moonshine, so they were able to make some of that. They did also have beer, but he remembers it being absolutely terrible. (29:45) They were able to do a lot of fishing to supplement some of the meals. (32:03) They moved northward, and the need for their job was eliminated, so he transferred out of the 989th and to a division on Cebu Island in the Philippines, where they were preparing for an assault on Japan. They were told at the time to expect 100-110% casualties in the assault. (35:30) They did not get much leave in the South Pacific, however they did get to play some softball and they were able to see some USO shows. (40:55) He remembers he first day that he got orders to go home. He recalls becoming very frightened that he would not make it home after he got to the end, but he did make it home safely. He made it to Chicago, where he met his wife at the train station. Post Service (45:02)   He wanted to stay in the Army, he his wife did not want him to, so as a compromise he joined the Reserves. He eventually worked for MichBell in Jackson, Michigan. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SuccopR Title A name given to the resource Succop, Robert (Interview outline and video), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Succop, Robert Description An account of the resource Robert Succop was born in Petoskey, Michigan and served in the Army during World War II. He joined the Army after Pearl Harbor, and worked for a short time in Chicago, Illinois teaching basic electricity before he was transferred to the 989th Company of the Signal Corps. He worked in New Guinea on FM radio weather reports, as well as the Philippines in preparation for an invasion of Japan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fritz, David (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-12-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives