82 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dea47d4fc9083729caedcfcf961bad32.jpg 15518146737cacc92c82cbf7a90f0610 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Michigan Novels Collection. PZ7.F69 Litt 1904 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0231 Title A name given to the resource Little Lady Marjorie Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Barry, Etheldred B. (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of Little Lady Marjorie, by Frances Margaret Fox, published by L. C. Page & Company, 1903. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1903 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/09007563159dcd752f91fd3a82153a4c.pdf 0f3909a55baf87b374150a001e757178 PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Incunabula Description An account of the resource The term incunabula refers to books printed between 1450 and 1500, approximately the first fifty years following the invention, by Johann Gutenberg of Mainz, of printing from moveable type. Our collection includes over 200 volumes and numerous unbound leaves from books printed during this period. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1450/1500 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Incunabula Collection (DC-03) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United </a> Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource text Language A language of the resource eng it la nl de Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summa de casibus conscientiae [folium 55] Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03_055Sancto1475 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bartholomaeus de Sancto Concordio Description An account of the resource One leaf of Summa de casibus conscientiae by Bartholomaeus de Sancto Concordio. Printed in Augsburg by Günther Zainer not after July 19, 1475. Illustrated with red rubricated initials. [GW 3453; ISTC ib00172000] Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Augsburg: Günther Zainer Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Language A language of the resource la Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1475 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Text https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/97abe5a2473cf2a3dd6a79e21dda0c7e.mp4 0c038bbd487d3c891f27fb2698ed0fcc https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2cbb3fe0700937985d3aef6c3fa80011.pdf edaa8af9ad1d761db6a3400db65f2d2a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project John Barwacz (01:53:59) (00:20) Background Information • John was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on June 3, 1921 • His father immigrated from Russia and his mother immigrated from Poland • The Depression was tough on his family and there was not much food to eat • They received government aid for food • John went to Catholic school and had no time for sports because he had to work to help support his family (9:50) After High School • John had not paid much attention to the news when he was in high school • He did not know a whole lot about Hitler or Europe because he could not afford to buy a newspaper • John dropped out of high school in his last year to work full time • He remembered hearing the news of Pearl Harbor on the radio and everyone had been shocked (18:35) Navy Enlistment August 18, 1942 • John enlisted in the Navy and was sent to Detroit for physicals • He then took a train with many others to Great Lakes Naval Academy in Chicago, Illinois • They began boot camp and it was very strict; they had to get up every day at 4 am • John then had advanced training at the University of Kansas for 16 weeks where he took engineering courses • After advanced training he took a train to San Francisco to a staging area (25:20) Heading North • John was on board a destroyer that burned 2,000 gallons of oil an hour • They headed for Seattle where they picked up heavier clothes because their next stop was the Aleutian Islands • John spent time working in the boiler room, with guns on deck, and also was a lookout • They then headed for Kiska; there were many Japanese Aleutian islands and the Navy had been shelling the islands to try to drive them out (35:55) Pearl Harbor • Pearl Harbor was much nicer than the foggy and stormy weather of the Aleutians • They put together a task force with cruisers, destroyers, and air craft carriers to bombard Wake Island • They left quickly toward the island, while John was on lookout the whole trip �• They zig zagged on course to avoid any Japanese submarines and began shelling the island (40:30) Gilbert Islands • They moved along other Pacific islands to take them back from the Japanese • It usually only took a few days to secure the islands • After they left, a Japanese submarine sunk a brand new air craft carrier • They were only able to pick up 14 survivors, and then headed back to the patrol station for submarine guard (44:15) Marshall Islands • Here the Navy was bombarding and screening for submarines and other Japanese ships • They were able to go ashore for lunch and to have some beer on a base • They found that the US Army had hid a bunch of K-rations underground and marked them as graves; they were saving them for an emergency (50:50) Marianas Islands • They traveled around Tinian, Saipan, and Guam, continuing to bomb, shell, and screen for Japanese • A large Japanese fleet had been launched against them • The Americans shot down about 400 Japanese planes, but John never got a chance to see any of the excitement because he had been working in the boiler room the whole time • They left the Marianas Islands and headed back to Pearl Harbor and then to Seattle for 30 day leave (1:00:15) Ship Life • On the USS Hull they had to refuel every 3-4 days from an aircraft carrier or battle ship • They saved many pilots that had crashed into the water; when they returned the pilots to another ship, they usually received a giant drum of ice cream in return • They usually had pretty good food, but never on Sundays (1:09:30) Fire Control School • John was transferred to a school in Seattle where he trained in fire fighting for 4 weeks • He was then assigned to an attack transport ship, APA 166 • They loaded the ship with marines, tanks, and other equipment • The ship was larger than a destroyer and had bunks stacked 6 deep • The ship was brand new and just been commissioned outside of Oregon (1:18:45) Okinawa • They traveled to Okinawa in April and unloaded the Marines • US planes were performing many air raids • John was there for about a week and there were many kamikaze attacks �• • After he left, they stopped once in Guam and then went back to Seattle They loaded up with more Marines and headed for Japan (1:22:55) Japan • John was on the first ship to reach the harbor and they began removing mines • The Marines first went ashore to secure the area • The sailors went ashore the next day and all the Japanese saluted them • John later went back to Guam and much of the island had been destroyed • They began loading the ships with troops to bring back to the US • John later learned that after he had been transferred to fire school, the USS Hull had sunk and only about 1/5 of the men had survived (1:35:25) Discharged • John had two other brothers in the service and they had not known that he had been transferred; they thought he had died on the USS Hull • John was sent back to Chicago to be discharged, but they had lost his papers and sent him back to Michigan until they could find them • He was discharged about two weeks later on December 24, 1945 • John later received 9 battle stars and 6 medals for his time in the service • Both of his brothers were in good health and began working right away, but he took some time off • John later began working at a manufacturing company and got married • He had four children and now has 2 grandchildren � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Barwacz, John (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Barwacz, John Description An account of the resource John Barwacz was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1921 and enlisted in the Navy on August 18, 1942. John went through basic training at Great Lakes Naval Academy in Chicago, Illinois and then had advanced engineer training at the University of Kansas. While in the Navy, John worked on the destroyer USS Hull as an engineer in the boiler room, as a lookout, and also handled guns on deck. Later took fire control training and served on an attack transport ship. He traveled all over the Pacific to the Aleutian Islands, Guam, Saipan, Tinian, Hawaii, Okinawa, and Japan. John was discharged on December 24, 1945. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-09-22 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BarwaczJ Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/15a41c42fa8501addbd181fcb4aaef81.m4v 199f861aef86a029d0db267e4a024e78 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/76cd471202c7627952c3731da11eaa40.pdf 20c10d4d5e9ca78e2f3ffe7684e58e76 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Lin Bashford Vietnam War 1 hour 15 minutes 40 seconds (00:00:25) Early Life -Born in Scott’s Bluff, Nebraska, on August 20, 1946 -Moved to Wyoming when he was two years old -Father worked for the Bureau of Reclamation -Attended high school in Cheyenne, Wyoming -Graduated in 1964 -Attended Casper Junior College for 2 years then University of Wyoming for 2 ½ years -Graduated from college with a degree in range management (bachelor degree of science) -Every six months he got an update about his draft status -Draft board kept close tabs on him (00:02:18) Getting Drafted -Got a job with the Wyoming Game & Fish Department -Tried to enlist in the National Guard -Denied enlistment because he was already slated to be drafted -Received his draft notice -Went to Denver, Colorado, to report for his draft physical and induction in April 1969 -Had ten slots open for the Marine Corps, and the draft board needed to fill those slots -He was initially selected, and didn’t want to go into the Marines as a draftee -Fortunately, someone else volunteered and filled his slot (00:05:34) Basic Training Pt. 1 -Sent to Fort Ord, California, for basic training -Taken by bus to the receiving station -Greeted by drill sergeants screaming orders at him and the other recruits -Knew what to expect because his father had served in the Army during World War II -Drill sergeants screamed at recruits and threw gear at them -Had difficulty adjusting because he was older and was used to being independent (00:07:34) Social Movements & the Vietnam War -Noticed some anti-war protests while in college -Saw more civil rights protests than anti-war protests -Remembers protests about the “Chicago Seven” -There were hippies around the university -He was part of the Reserve Officers’ Training Corps Rifle Team -More aware of the hippies and anti-war protesters than average students -Mostly knew about the Vietnam War via the news and from conversation with friends -Knew one young man that had been killed-in-action -Knew the war was dangerous (00:10:08) Basic Training Pt. 2 -Did a lot of physical training and drilling to get into shape -Received firearms training -Did classroom work -Learned about Uniform Code of Military Justice and Army etiquette -He was in good physical shape during basic training �-Some of the drill sergeants were better than others -Some drill sergeants targeted the men that had graduated from college -If you did well, you were celebrated; if you did poorly, you were mocked -Lasted eight weeks (00:11:51) Advanced Infantry Training -Assigned to advanced infantry training at Fort Ord -Moved to a different part of the base -Learned about infantry tactics -Trained with grenades and other firearms -Went through gas training -Went into a chamber to be exposed to CS gas (form of strong tear gas) -Went on forced marches -Did week-long bivouacs -A lot of the instructors had served in Vietnam and tried to prepare recruits for Vietnam -Difficult to mimic Vietnamese climate in southern California -Began training with M14 rifle, then M16 rifle, M60 machine gun, M79 grenade launcher -Also worked with Light Anti-Tank Weapon and hand grenades -Given a brief overview of mortars -Taught how to call in mortar fire, not how to fire the mortars -Lasted eight weeks (00:14:42) Non-Commissioned Officer School -He was selected for Non-Commissioned Officer (NCO) School -Originally selected to be an 11-Foxtrot (Long Range Recon Patrol) -Sent to Fort Benning, Georgia, for NCO School -Learned how to read maps, how to escape & evade capture, and how to be a leader -Received classroom and practical training -Worked as platoon sergeant, and as a squad leader -Getting experience in various leadership positions -Involuntary assignment (00:17:44) Stationed at Fort Carson -Graduated from NCO School and went to the base of his choice for on-the-job training -He selected Fort Carson, Colorado, to work with an infantry company -Assigned to unit within the 5th Infantry Division (Mechanized) -Served with a regular unit as a sergeant -Stationed there in January and February 1970 -Very cold during field training -Working with men that already fought in Vietnam -Got to visit his family on leave -Assigned to Fort Carson for six weeks (00:20:10) Deployment to Vietnam -Orders came for him to report to the depot in Oakland to be deployed to Vietnam -He expected it since he’d gone through NCO School -Got a few weeks of leave before his deployment -Flew in a chartered commercial airliner to Vietnam -Stopped at Honolulu, but not allowed to leave the airport (00:21:18) Arrival in Vietnam -Landed at Bien Hoa Airbase near Saigon -Noticed the overwhelming heat and stench -Smelled like a hot sewer �-Placed in a truck and taken to a reception center for incoming replacements -Assigned a bunk -Received in-country training -Living in Vietnam -Issued new clothing -Pulled guard duty, cleaning duty, and kitchen patrol -Stayed at the reception center longer for a week (00:23:44) Assignment to 101st Airborne Division -Assigned to the 101st Airborne Division operating in I Corps (northern most part of South Vietnam) -Flew in a C-130 up to Camp Eagle -Received more training there -Jungle tactics, rappelling, target practice, and patrol training -Went on patrols outside of the base with live ammunition -Stayed there for about one week (00:25:58) Joining D Company -He went to Camp Evans to join D Company of 2nd Battalion of the 506th Infantry Regiment -Joined them in April 1970 while the company was in the field -Pulled guard duty at Camp Evans until he joined D Company -Flew to Firebase Ripcord because the unit was there -Barren, rocky, hilltop base surrounded by barbed wire -Had artillery batteries and a helipad -Supporting artillery fire for infantry units in the field -One company stayed on the base while the other companies patrolled around it -Joined a squad in D Company (00:28:45) Patrols around Firebase Ripcord Pt. 1 -Walked off Ripcord to conduct patrols around the firebase -Operated in hot, humid, and mountainous jungle -Seemed like mass confusion to him -Walked in a staggered, single-file line -Forged their own trails -Stayed aware of booby traps -A couple men tried to help him and correct his mistakes -Sergeant Skinner helped him a lot -He was willing to learn from anyone, regardless of rank -Felt the platoon leader did an excellent job -Felt Captain Rollison was gung-ho, but cared for his men, and was respectable and competent -Started patrols in late April/early May 1970 (00:33:05) Enemy Contact -Very first day off the base they got attacked -Didn’t see much of the enemy soldiers -Saw North Vietnamese soldiers run across the trail in front of him -Realized they were people, and not just the enemy -First contact was very brief -Told to go look for an enemy presence -Found some fresh, bloody bandages, but nothing else -Nearly impossible to see targets in the jungle (00:36:15) Reassignment to Camp Evans Pt. 1 -Near the end of the battle of Firebase Ripcord (July 23, 1970) he was reassigned to the rear -Captain Rollison recommended him for company clerk duty at Camp Evans �-Felt it would be a good place for Lin’s abilities and the safest place for him (00:37:40) Patrols around Firebase Ripcord Pt. 2 -Patrolled from one hilltop to the next -Took hours to go from one night defensive position to another one -Never had a “typical” day -At night they set up a position and established a perimeter -Set up antipersonnel mines, dug foxholes, and pulled guard duty in shifts -North Vietnamese did recon probes at night, but never engaged in firefights -Heard other units getting attacked at night -One of his most vivid memories is one unit finding an enemy bunker complex -Called in an airstrike and remembers the napalm bombs exploding on the target (00:40:51) Battle of Firebase Ripcord -On July 1, 1970, the North Vietnamese began their bombardment of Firebase Ripcord -Heard the bombardment all the time -On July 7th and 8th D Company assaulted Hill 1000 -His squad stayed back (00:42:27) Life in the Field -Using the bathroom in the jungle was always a chore -Had to find a place outside the perimeter and remain vigilant -Then returned to his unit without accidentally getting shot by his own soldiers -Resupplied by helicopter -Food, water, and clothing -Ate C-rations -Cans of pork and beans, cans of ham and lima beans, and other canned foods -None of it tasted very good -Had Tabasco Sauce to make the food taste better (00:44:54) Vietnamese Scouts -Had a Vietnamese scout with his unit who was tremendously helpful -Identified tracks, booby traps, and enemy explosives -Served as interpreters for prisoners-of-war -Knew one scout that had surrendered and defected to US/South Vietnamese forces (00:46:42) Reassignment to Camp Evans Pt. 2 -Sometime in late July he was sent to company headquarters at Camp Evans -Served as a company clerk -Handled morning reports, radio traffic, leaves, R&Rs, and personnel records -Men came to Camp Evans with injuries -He monitored them and gave updates to their units in the field -Assigned men to bunker detail, kitchen patrol, and waste burning -Usually had eight to ten men from D Company at Camp Evans at any time -Going to/coming from R&R, leaving Vietnam, and sick or injured (00:49:43) Fall of Firebase Ripcord -Didn’t know a lot about the events surrounding the end of the battle of Firebase Ripcord -Knew about D Company being sent to rescue A Company -Firebase Ripcord was evacuated on July 23, and American bombers destroyed the base (00:50:47) Life at Camp Evans -Fell into a routine -Wrote letters on behalf of the captain for the men killed-in-action -Wrote more letters than he wished he’d had to -A good friend of his was killed-in-action �-D Company made some random contact after Ripcord -122mm rockets hit Camp Evans at least once a week -Learned how to take cover, fast -Didn’t sleep well -Lived in tin shacks with sandbags on top of the shacks -Had a barber, a PX (Army general store), a hospital, and a helipad for gunships -Also had an enlisted/NCO club and an officers’ club -Had Vietnamese civilians working at the barber shop and PX (00:54:30) Drug Use & Racial Tensions -Saw men using drugs at Camp Evans -Most men used weed, but there was some heroin use -Told not to talk about the heroin use -Caught a Vietnamese scout with heroin and turned him over to the military police -Units still functioned despite drug use, but some soldiers had severe problems -Drugs were a problem in the rear, but not in the field -There was racial tension at Camp Evans, and it got worse over the course of 1970 -Issues and attitudes imported from the United States -More aware of issues because he’d had law-enforcement training in college (00:58:20) R&R -Went to Australia for his R&R -Chose Australia because he wanted to get out of Southeast Asia -Treated well by the Australians -Didn’t notice any anti-war or anti-American sentiments -Explored Sydney for a few days -Visited New South Wales Conservation Office -Spent time with a conservation officer and his family -Kept in touch with them after the war -Saw a lot of the Australian wildlife -Took his R&R after he was ¾ done with his tour in Vietnam (01:01:24) Progress of Vietnam War -Noticed the “Vietnamization” process, but it was not as prevalent in I Corps -Note: Vietnamization – term used to describe transfer of fighting duties to South Vietnam -Heard about the Americal Division (23rd Infantry Division) and 4th Infantry Division leaving Vietnam (01:03:30) Work at Camp Evans -He took his job seriously -Knew how to do his job and did it well -Gave good updates to units in the field, and also managed personnel and supplies well -Processed incoming replacements -Tried to prepare them for when they joined their units -Did a lot of work on his own (01:06:27) End of Tour & End of Service -Knew about a month before his tour ended that he was nearing the end -Wrote a letter to the Chief Game Warden of Wyoming about getting his old job back -Received his orders to return to the United States -Checked out of D Company, out of 2nd Battalion, and finally out of the 101st Airborne Division -Went to Na Trang, to Saigon, and flew to Fort Lewis, Washington -Filed a lot of paperwork at Fort Lewis and got a new uniform -Offered a chance to reenlist, which he declined �(01:09:47) Coming Home -He flew home in uniform -Got hassled by protesters at the Seattle airport -Protesters taunted him, and targeted soldiers with the Combat Infantry Badge -Came as a surprise to him, because he didn’t think it would happen to him (01:11:35) Life after the War -Didn’t get his old job back -Given a temporary assignment in Casper, Wyoming, as a deputy -Did that for a month -Conducted patrols and maintained the grounds for the Department of Wildlife -After his supervisor degraded him for being a Vietnam War veteran he received transfer orders -En route to his new assignment he stopped in Rawlins, Wyoming -Knew the sheriff there, and the sheriff offered Lin a job with the department -He worked with the department for seven years -Returned to the Wyoming Game and Fish Department to work as an investigator (01:15:10) Reflections on Service -Learned patience -Learned how to take orders -He would do it again, if he had to, for love of his country � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BashfordL1958V Title A name given to the resource Bashford, Lindon L (Interview outline and video), 2016 Description An account of the resource Lin Bashford was born in Scott’s Bluff, Nebraska, on August 20, 1946. He was drafted in April 1969 and went to Fort Ord, California, for basic training and later advanced infantry training. He was selected for Non-Commissioned Officer School and went to Fort Benning, Georgia, to receive that training. He was stationed at Fort Carson, Colorado, in early 1970 before deploying to Vietnam in early spring of that year. He joined D Company of the 2nd Battalion of the 506th Infantry Regiment of the 101st Airborne Division in April 1970. He went on patrols around Firebase Ripcord and was in the area when the Battle of Firebase Ripcord began on July 1, 1970. Shortly before the fall of the firebase he was reassigned to Camp Evans to serve as company clerk. In early spring 1971 he returned to the United States and was discharged at Fort Lewis, Washington. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bashford, Lindon Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-10-08 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1b2172f65b744e6e31b9aeafb249960a.mp4 90a4740793922a64593e04d3b2a9e641 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0741ae36888f4799cdc0a6abc0582407.pdf 81cb3ae2f46c2553bbaabceb7120c60c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Vietnam War Dennis Bassett Interview Length: (01:53:58:00) Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:10:00)  Bassett was born in February, 1942, in Grand Rapids, Michigan, where Bassett’s father worked for General Motors and his mother was a stay-at-home mom for Bassett and his two younger brothers; Bassett attended Ottawa Hills High School before graduating in 1960 (00:00:10:00)  After graduating from high school, Bassett thought about his life and decided he had to do something different; he wanted to see different things, have a different pace, and not follow a traditional route (00:00:59:00) o Bassett did not believe he was ready for more schooling, so he decided to join the Army (00:01:13:00)  When Bassett joined the Army in 1960, the divide was roughly fifty-fifty between enlistees and draftees; the draftees tended to be a little older while the enlistees tended to be eighteen- and nineteen-year-olds (00:01:29:00) o There were a lot of “buddy plans” at the time, so Bassett enlisted with a man from his church who went on to be a doctor and another man who went into the Air Force (00:01:41:00) o Bassett believes that if someone did not want to go to school or work a steady job, as well as a sense of service and doing something for the country were common reasons why a person joined the military (00:01:56:00) o When Bassett enlisted, he wanted to serve overseas, although he did not know specifically where he wanted to go (00:02:24:00)  After enlisting and saying good bye to his parents, Bassett was placed on a bus and sent to Fort Wayne in Detroit, where he was sworn into the Army, given a set of fatigues, and told to get something to eat; the next day, a train took Bassett to Louisville, Kentucky, where he was placed on another bus, taking to a basic training reception center, assigned to a basic training company, given his equipment, and told to be ready the next morning for his basic training (00:02:42:00) o Bassett went to Fort Knox, Kentucky for basic training, which was an armored training center, making the base fairly large; however, from Bassett’s perspective, the base was about three streets because he could not leave the area he was assigned unless he was taken someplace or marched someplace (00:03:29:00) o Basic training was intended to regiment everyone to the group, so the Army began by cutting everyone’s hair, giving the soldiers all the same uniform, making them show up on time, and making the soldiers work as a group (00:04:02:00)  Basic training focused on basic military skills and as a soldier’s career progressed, then the training got larger; in basic training, the soldiers were supposed to learn how to shoot, how to march, and how to cooperate with �    people because when they left basic training, the soldiers went as an individual to an organization and were expected to fit in (00:04:17:00) o Bassett went through training with a mix of both white and black soldiers and the soldiers tended to come from specific areas, such as Pennsylvania; there were a few soldiers who had come to the United States on educational visas, dropped out of college, were in the country, and were drafted (00:04:47:00)  Bassett’s training unit had a German and an Argentinean, who were quite surprised to find themselves in the Army (00:05:23:00)  Mostly soldiers adjusted to military life quickly because it was a time when most men were disciplined already (00:05:38:00) o The only major conflict at the time involved Cuba, so the rumor throughout the soldiers was that they were going to go to Cuba (00:05:51:00) Basic training lasted for eight weeks and was followed by Advanced Individual Training, which Bassett took at Fort Knox; if someone had a different specialty, then he went to a different base for his advanced training (00:06:11:00) o During the advanced training, the Army’s control loosened somewhat but the soldiers still had to be at certain places at certain times; during advanced training, the soldiers were allowed to wear civilian clothes as opposed to basic training, when they could not (00:06:29:00) o During training, everybody slept in double bunks, there were no private rooms or co-ed facilities, and public bathroom and showers (00:06:44:00) Advanced training lasted for about another eight weeks, after which, the soldiers were assigned to their units; after the eight weeks, Bassett was sent to Korea (00:07:00:00) o After advanced training, Bassett was told to go home and the Army would send him a ticket; however, then he was told to go home, given some money, and told to get to the Oakland Army terminal by a certain date (00:07:14:00) o In January 1961, Bassett went to the airport in Grand Rapids, flew to Chicago and then took another flight to California (00:07:33:00) In Oakland, Bassett and the other soldiers were in a holding position where the Army kept constant track of them; there was a morning formation and a formation when they brought the flag down and in the mean time, the soldiers just hung around (00:08:16:00) o The soldiers were waiting for a ship because that was how they were getting to Korea; when the ship finally came in, all the soldiers were loaded onto trucks, driven down to the pier, unloaded, along with all their equipment, boarded the ship, and were told to find a berth (00:08:36:00) o Bassett spent about seven days in Oakland and during those seven days, he did not leave the base once (00:09:02:00) The soldiers were eventually placed aboard a troop ship that had probably been around for a long time (00:09:12:00) o If a soldier got the lower bunk, he was about four inches off the floor, and get in, the soldier laid on the floor and scooted in; if a soldier had the top bunk, four bunks up, he had to climb over everyone’s bunk to reach his (00:09:24:00)  If the soldier on the top bunk got seasick, he threw up on the soldier in the bunk below him, who threw up on the soldier below him, until it reached the bottom bunk, where that soldier just moved away (00:09:43:00) � o o o o Bassett originally got the bottom bunk but moved up later on to the second bunk (00:09:56:00)  The rule was the soldiers slept head to feet to stop the spread of infectious disease; because the soldiers had to double bunk, everyone slept with someone’s feet by his head and his feet by someone’s head (00:10:03:00) When the soldiers woke up in the morning, they all went to the mess hall to eat before going on deck, where they stayed, no matter the weather, until they were brought down for the noon meal, which could take an hour (00:10:22:00)  After the noon meal, the soldiers went back to the deck and stayed there until dinner, then went back to their bunks (00:10:42:00) Because they were sailing in January, the weather was terrible; it was cold and windy but in a sense, Bassett was lucky because he received an assignment to paint the brig with three other soldiers (00:10:47:00)  The combination of paint fumes and the movement of the ship would make the soldiers nauseous and in order to take care of the nausea, the soldiers had to climb from the belly of the ship to the deck and grab some air before heading back down (00:11:13:00) The voyage to Korea took twenty-eight days and the ship stopped in Japan, where the Army had arranged for the soldiers to get off the ship (00:11:38:00)  The ship sailed into Yokohama, where the soldiers were placed on trucks and driven to Camp Drake, where the soldiers ate and then received some free time (00:11:49:00)  During the free time, the soldiers could go to downtown Yokohama, some soldiers did, and some lost their money; as far as ships coming in, the Japanese had a well-orchestrated plan to deprive the unwary of their few dollars and cents (00:12:14:00) After spending a night in Yokohama, the soldiers re-boarded the ship and sailed into Inchon (00:12:38:00) Korean Deployment (00:12:45:00)  Once he arrived in Korea, Bassett was assigned to the 6th Medical Depot, which was located between Inchon and Seoul and divided into four sections, each with a different assignment (00:12:45:00) o The medical section supported the 121st Evac. Hospital, which was located on hill while the 55th Quartermaster was the depot’s quartermaster section and there was a signal compound next to the quartermaster compound; each compound was surrounded by fence, with adjoining middle fences and a fence leading out to the street and there was also an engineering compound (00:13:24:00)  At the time, the 121st Evac. Hospital served as the major military hospital for all of Korea (00:13:51:00) o There were around one hundred and fifty soldiers working in the depot, which was primarily a warehouse (00:14:14:00)  Bassett was first assigned to help the clerks, then moved up to guard duty, and was finally assigned to be in charge of finance because the previous soldier had gotten sick and never came back (00:14:22:00) �    o While in charge of finance, Bassett was told he had to do payroll and when Bassett said he knew nothing of how to do payroll, the commander said too bad, handed him two books about payroll and said there was a payroll out in about two weeks, so Bassett needed to get to work (00:14:37:00) o After the first pay day, there was a line of soldiers saying that Bassett had screwed up their pay, so Bassett had to recalculate for each soldier (00:15:07:00) o The next pay day, there were soldiers complaining that Bassett had taken money away from them; Bassett had overpaid the soldiers the first time, so he had to take the money back (00:15:20:00) o After the first couple of pay days, everything settled down and Bassett became a mediocre finance person, although he did not, and still does not, know anything about payroll (00:15:38:00) During off-duty time, Bassett played softball for eighteen games in the summer (00:15:55:00) o It was about eight years after the supposed end of the Korean War and the soldiers could get a bus from the tour special services that would take the soldiers up north or to other places; however, the soldiers did not have any cars and there were not any taxis (00:16:19:00) Sometimes, the soldiers would have to pick up medicines that came in from Japan that needed immediate refrigeration; if a soldier was a designated driver, then he drove with an escort to the railroad station or airfield to pick up the medicine and that was when the soldiers were able to go into Seoul (00:16:39:00) o When the soldiers would go to the railroad station, there were Korean kids who wanted to shine the soldiers’ shoes; thirty years later, when Bassett was at Armed Forces Staff College, there was an adopted Korean student, so Bassett told the student about his time in Korea (00:17:29:00)  The student told Bassett that when he was eight or nine, he would go to the railroad station to shine shoes, so it was quite possible the student tried to shine Bassett’s boots while Bassett was in Korea (00:18:20:00) At the time, the airport in Seoul could not handle commercial aircraft because it had no terminal; when Bassett flew out of the airport to go on R&R to Japan, he went into a small building, showed his leave papers, and was told to go stand outside because the office was not big enough for him to wait inside (00:19:12:00) o Overall, Seoul itself had not recovered much from the Korean War; meanwhile, in the villages outside the city, there was barely electricity, there was no sewage system, the women still washed clothes in creeks with rocks, etc. (00:19:46:00) Because the medical depot was akin to a warehouse, the soldiers had some Koreans working in the warehouse alongside them; however, the Koreans would leave the base at night and go wherever they went (00:20:16:00) o There was also some secretarial support from the Koreans and although Bassett does not necessarily know if the soldiers needed help from the Koreans, either in the warehouse or otherwise, it was good for community support (00:20:31:00) o The nearby village somewhat supported itself off the base because it was a village of bars and whores (00:20:52:00)  Soldiers did tend to get into trouble when they went into the village but it happened in degrees; there were fights in the bars between soldiers, but �    not often, some soldiers found a Korean woman and “went native” (00:21:15:00)  As a rule, Bassett felt safe going into villages (00:22:02:00)  On some occasions, the soldiers could hunt; the soldiers could check shotguns out from special services, rent a jeep from the motor pool, and go up into the hills to shoot pheasants (00:22:10:00) Bassett spent eighteen months in Korea, which was longer than a standard tour because the Berlin Wall was built and the Army put a stand-down on all movement, meaning all soldiers stayed put (00:22:37:00) o At that time, the soldiers were always going on alert out of fear that the Korean War might start up again (00:23:10:00)  The depot was further north, thus closer to the DMZ, than Seoul, and was about ninety seconds by jet with afterburners from the border; as well, Seoul, and everything to the north, including the depot, was within range of artillery fire from beyond the DMZ (00:23:21:00)  Every now and then, the North Koreans would cross over the DMZ and whenever they did, the soldiers received alerts and had to fall out and draw their weapons (00:23:44:00) o The planners always looked at things as if something in Berlin was a deception to something that might happen in Korea or if something in Korea was meant to draw attention away from something in Berlin or Cuba (00:23:57:00) o Because of the Berlin Wall going up, all the soldiers were extended for ninety days on their tour (00:24:19:00) o At the time, there were firing incidents on the border between the North and the South but Bassett does not believe that the news always reported it (00:24:29:00)  The DMZ was patrolled by both South Korean and American forces who literally walked along a fence-line; there were incursions, which involved shooting, from one side of the border to the other and mostly, it was North Korea trying to provoke something (00:24:38:00)  Those things happened but they were not reported directly to the soldiers and were never reported in the national news (00:25:02:00)  The 121st would have been the closest hospital, although the individual divisions would have had their own medical clinics; the clinics would have done the first medical support and if there were wounded, then they were brought to the 121st (00:25:19:00) At one point, Bassett got to go to Japan, which was a perk although it was the only place the soldiers could fly to, and they spent a week there (00:25:57:00) o Bassett went with another soldier and received accommodations at a military hotel in Tokyo, where they wore civilian clothes, ate their meals, and spent the night, for a small fee, all while seeing the sights of Tokyo (00:26:08:00)  During World War II, the Japanese Army and Navy had meet in the hotel to plan a revolt against the Japanese government (00:26:32:00) Bassett originally enlisted for a three-year tour while on the other hand, a draftee automatically received a two-year enlistment (00:27:27:00) When he came back from Korea, Bassett was an E-3, a PFC, meaning he did not have a stake in his military future nor did anyone ever ask him for his opinion (00:27:47:00) �o Bassett returned from Korea on a ship, was dropped off back in Oakland, and told that he was on his own, so he had to buy his own ticket home (00:27:59:00)  On the flight home, Bassett was one of the first men to fly on a 707 airliner; at one point, he sat next to a woman who brought Bassett back to her house, fed him, and took him back to the airport (00:28:19:00) o When Bassett got into Grand Rapids, he did not have any orders, which was uncommon; Bassett ended up going to the local recruiter's office to ask how long he was supposed to stay home and where he would be going but all he was told was orders would be sent to him (00:28:46:00)  The entire situation was interesting because a PFC was normally sent to a replacement depot on a base and was farmed out from there based upon a unit’s needs; a PFC did not receive specific orders (00:29:07:00)  Eventually, Bassett received by-name orders from the Pentagon telling him where to go, which was the 2nd Ranger Company in Dahlonega, Georgia (00:29:27:00) o Although Bassett did not know where exactly Dahlonega was, he knew it was in Georgia, so he took a bus to Atlanta; eventually, someone asked where he needed to go and when Bassett told them, the person told him to be there the next morning (00:29:55:00)  The next morning, a bus took Bassett into the Blue Ridge Mountains; the bus eventually stopped and Bassett was told he was in Dahlonega and it was where he needed to get off (00:30:16:00)  Once off the bus, Bassett walked into the local drug store and asked where he needed to go; a woman in the store told him to call a number, he did so, said he was in Dahlonega, and was told to stay there and they would come pick him up (00:30:46:00)  An hour later, a jeep came, picked Bassett up, and took him another twelve miles into the mountains (00:31:03:00) Ranger School / Inter-Service Years (00:31:24:00)  Dahlonega was one of several Ranger training locations at the time and consisted rappelling, mountaineering, patrol and ambushing, designed to be if the soldiers were operating in mountainous, woody terrain in the enemy’s rear (00:31:24:00) o The school consisted of seventeen staff members divided between the cadre, who had gone through Ranger school, and soldiers who supported the cadre; although Bassett was not an instructor, he worked with the instructors (00:32:02:00)  When Bassett went back to the school as a student in 1967, the cadre knew who he was and pressured him the most; however, after pressuring Bassett, the cadre would pull him aside to make sure he was doing okay and see how he was doing (00:32:52:00) o While at Dahlonega, Bassett worked in Operations and Training for a captain and a sergeant, where he set up the operation orders for the students (00:34:12:00)  Bassett was stationed at Dahlonega for eighteen months, completing the other half of his three-year enlistment; once his enlistment ended, Bassett decided to get out of the military and go to college, although his comrades suggested he stay in the military and attend OCS (00:35:09:00) �  o When Bassett was in basic training, he took a series of tests and when the scores came back, he and some other soldiers were told to fall out; once they did so, the soldiers were told they had scored high enough to go to OCS, although Bassett did not want to go; however, the military said they could send him to OCS and Ranger School (00:35:30:00)  In 1963, Bassett knew lieutenants who were forming the precursor units to the modern Special Forces and those units were going to fighting someplace in Southeast Asia (00:36:07:00)  However, at one point or another, Bassett would hear that one of the lieutenants had been killed, although there were only advisors in Southeast Asia; even today, someone could go to the Ranger training battalion and see the names of the these soldiers on street signs (00:36:38:00) At the end of his enlistment, Bassett decided he needed to get an education because it gave him an out, so he turned down OCS, went back to Grand Rapids, attended junior college, and got married (00:37:17:00) o When he got home, Bassett got a job working nights at a hospital during the week and days on the weekend, which amounted to a forty-hour-a-week job, and he met his future wife at the hospital (00:37:35:00) o After two years at junior college, Bassett needed to move on, so he ended up attending Western Michigan University, where he graduated with a degree in Business Marketing and a minor in Psychology (00:37:53:00)  Because he had three years of enlisted time, Bassett joined the ROTC for his final two years in college and the government gave him a National Defense loan, which helped Bassett and his wife get through, because by then, they had had a child (00:38:19:00)  At the time, the only kind of jobs Bassett could get included working at a juice company (00:38:42:00)  Although Bassett received the GI Bill early in the framework, it came late for him personally because he only received funding for a year (00:39:10:00) o Because Bassett had done ROTC in his final two years, once he received his degree, he also received a commission and the Army told him to go to Fort Benning, Georgia (00:39:47:00) When Bassett got to Fort Benning, he was told that because he was a Regular Army officer, he was on a different track from a Reserve Army officer (00:39:54:00) o If someone was a distinguished ROTC student, then he could be offered a commission in the Regular Army (00:40:09:00) o Soldiers who received a Regular Army commission were different from other commissioned officers because although everyone went through a five-week basic course, after the basic course, all Regular Army-commissioned officers went through Ranger School while the non-Regular Army-commissioned officers went through a different three-month course (00:40:48:00)  When someone was commissioned, he was asked what branch he wanted to be commissioned in; if someone was non-Regular Army, he went directly to that branch while if someone was Regular Army, he would � have to serve two years in a combat arm: Infantry, Armor, or Artillery, then he could go to the branch he desired (00:41:23:00) o Bassett did the five-week course with all the officers then went to Ranger school and if somebody made it through Ranger school at the time, then he went to Vietnam (00:41:51:00)  On the other hand, if someone took the other track, he also ended up in Vietnam; there were very few who did not go to Vietnam (00:42:07:00)  During the five-week course, the soldiers did PT and training in the morning, ate lunch, and then had classroom work in the afternoon (00:42:18:00)  In the classes, the soldiers learned how to call in artillery, map reading, military history, military law, the quartermaster system, medical training, and information about Vietnam (00:42:59:00) o The classes were mostly done with slideshows, so the soldiers took notes and tests (00:43:24:00)  After learning about something in a class, the soldiers would go into the field and do practical applications (00:44:04:00)  The time assisting at Ranger School helped Bassett because he had already walked all the patrols, although it did not help him in the three-week basic course, which was a culling course to weed out the weak and make the soldiers who wanted to quit actually quit (00:44:28:00)  If a soldier was having trouble with the daily rucksack run, the other soldiers were told not to expend their energy carrying him because the soldier was not going to make it (00:44:50:00)  Once they reached the mountain phase, Bassett knew the mountains, knew what was going on, the patrols and exercises the soldiers went on, how the soldiers were graded, etc. (00:45:16:00) o After completing Ranger school, Bassett deployed to Vietnam (00:45:44:00) At that time, there was a public law saying that someone had to spend one hundred and eighty-one days in the United States before deploying overseas, so once he completed his officers training, Bassett was assigned to the 197th Brigade at Fort Benning, a unit all lieutenants on the base went to, which created an interesting mix (00:45:48:00) o At the time, there were three classes in 197th (00:46:14:00)  The first class were captains, who always hung together and did not talk with lieutenants coming out of Ranger school; the captains had already completed one tour, had come back, and were killing time until they began their second tour (00:46:14:00)  The second class were the lieutenants who had deployed but come back early or had just come back, often with an injury (00:46:42:00)  The third and final class were the new lieutenants, such as Bassett; nobody wanted to talk to them because they had not done anything or been to Vietnam (00:47:10:00)  In the third class, there were lieutenants waiting for their one hundred and eighty-one days to be up as well as lieutenants who had just crossed the one hundred and eighty-one days, which � meant they were going and which also meant there was a constant rotation within the class (00:47:32:00)  Once a lieutenant reached the top of the order and closed in on the one hundred and eighty-one days, he began receiving feedback about the lieutenants who had goon before him, including those who had been killed or wounded (00:47:51:00) o Bassett was in the 197th in the middle part of 1968, following the first wave of the Tet Offensive, which partially explained the high casualty number (00:48:46:00)  When Bassett flew out of Grand Rapids to deploy to Vietnam, there was another man from his class on the flight, but he did not make it (00:49:03:00) When Bassett’s orders to Vietnam came up, he and his family, who was at Fort Benning with him, drove to Grand Rapids to say hello to his family and watch pitcher Denny McClain throw a game (00:49:28:00) o When he deployed, Bassett went to Fort Lewis, Washington, waited with other soldiers until there was a full planeload of soldiers and once there was, flew to Vietnam aboard a chartered Pan Am airplane (00:50:00:00)  On the flight over, the stewardesses were great; the stewardesses were on the flights both taking soldiers to Vietnam and bringing soldiers home and Bassett believes the stewardesses were able to pick up on the apprehension of the former and the happiness of the latter (00:50:24:00) Vietnam Deployment (00:51:04:00)  When Bassett arrived in Vietnam, he and the other lieutenants were told to be somewhere the following morning because there would be a roster to be called off; when someone’s name was called off, he departed and was told to go to someplace at a certain time to pick up his orders (00:51:04:00) o Bassett originally had orders for the 1st Air Cavalry Division, so he read as much as he could about the area where the Division was located; however, when they called of his name, Bassett was assigned to the 9th Infantry Division, which was in a different Corps, had no mountains, and Bassett knew nothing (00:51:36:00)  At the time, the 9th Division was located in the Mekong Delta region, south of Saigon (00:52:40:00)  Bassett believes part of the reason he went to the 9th Infantry was because of the Tet Offensive; had everything been even, he might of gone to the 1st Air Cav. but if there were a lot of losses in the south, then the Army diverted people and they became “filler” (00:52:45:00) o Bassett’s first impression of Vietnam was that it was humid, the language sounded different and the air smelled different; however, Bassett had already been to Korea, so he was not shocked and awed by what he experienced (00:53:17:00) o Bassett knew what was going on in Vietnam and volunteered to go; he had graduated from college in 1967 and the war had been going on for a long time by then (00:53:28:00)  When soldiers would deploy, they would go to a reception center and then fly to a base; once at the base, the soldier was allowed to let Vietnam settle in, including more training, �  getting acclimated to the weather, going out on patrols with live ammunition, being updated with all of their shots, etc. (00:54:10:00) o At that time, Bassett got to know other people, started to bond with other people, and by the time the acclimation ended, his sleep cycle was better, he knew how the latrine worked, etc. (00:55:05:00) o Eventually, the soldiers received orders to go to a room that would have a list telling each soldier when to be at the airfield so he could be picked up (00:55:35:00)  Sometimes the plane would come in and sometimes it would not; when the plane would not come, the base personnel would say there were no more aircraft and tell the soldiers to go back to their billets (00:55:51:00) While in Vietnam, the 9th Infantry moved from its original position near Saigon to a position further south, in Dong Tam (00:56:06:00) o Before the Tet Offensive, the 9th Infantry’s objective was going after Viet Cong main force units, which were enemy units, mostly battalions, with large numbers of soldiers; however, after the Tet Offensive, the enemy units were so decimated that the division was going after enemy companies and later, squads (00:57:14:00)  As the 9th Infantry continued operating, the enemy units became smaller and smaller for survival, although the division occasionally came across full main force battalions (00:57:50:00) o The unit Bassett was assigned to once he joined the 9th Infantry was part of the Riverine Force, so the soldiers in the unit stay aboard ships and went to war in either helicopters or landing craft (00:58:11:00)  There were two motherships because there were two battalions, the 4th of the 47th and the 3rd of the 60th and Bassett was assigned to Alpha Company, 3rd of the 60th, as the 2nd Platoon leader (00:58:28:00) After Bassett joined Alpha Company, because the enemy units had been broken down so much, he seldom worked with the company and spent most of his time working with only his platoon, a fact he finds amazing (00:59:36:00) o At that time, platoons did not consist of over thirty people and constant rotation always caused changes so that if Bassett was full up, he had maybe twenty-one or twenty-two soldiers (00:59:53:00) o There were so few soldiers in the platoon that Bassett did not use squad leaders, although he had them; instead, Bassett used the platoon sergeant as a squad leader and Bassett himself became a squad leader (01:00:05:00)  When they moved, Bassett moved the platoon together and if he wanted to maneuver, then he broke the platoon down (01:00:15:00) o Generally, one way or another, the soldiers ended up on a helicopter, on what they called an “eagle flight”, which were basically air insertions (01:00:27:00)  The soldiers would load up into six helicopters with usually two escorts, either Cobras or Hueys with rockets; no one would tell the soldiers where they were going, only that they were being inserted (01:00:38:00)  The attack processed was choreographed so that after the escorts flew in and fired their rockets, the transport helicopters would fly the soldiers in before leaving (01:01:15:00) �   After clearing the LZ, the soldiers would go for a stroll and see what they could kick up; before a mission, Bassett would be given a grid square, which was one thousand meters square, told he was somewhere within that square and told to see what he could find out (01:01:48:00)  The theory was the enemy spread out and the Americans needed to fan their soldiers out from a central hub to control the area; although Bassett did not know where he was, someone did (01:02:01:00) o Bassett always operated with a radio operator and although he did not have one personally, the company commander always had a forward observer with him to call in artillery (01:02:21:00) The first time Bassett went out with his platoon, the company was in a village providing support for Dong Tam; the platoon came in from the woods and after Bassett met the company commander, he joined the platoon (01:02:51:00) o Bassett did not meet the person he was replace because the officer had been killed during the Tet Offensive [probably the mini-Tet in May, rather than the original offensive in February] (01:03:19:00) o When Bassett joined the platoon, his platoon sergeant was not a seasoned veteran; instead, the sergeant had gone through the accelerated NCO program, which gave extended training to an NCO for another stripe (01:03:47:00)  When he arrived, Bassett asked the sergeants what the platoon had done for the last week, where the platoon had gone, what the sergeant knew, what Bassett had to watch out for, and where the platoon had spent the night (01:04:05:00)  Bassett said the platoon was going to move and when the sergeants suggested otherwise because it was late, Bassett said the platoon was moving because he did not want the platoon to spend the night in the same place twice (01:04:18:00)  Bassett’s training made him as prepared as he could be and although the soldiers in the platoon initially did not want to move at night, by the time Bassett was done with them, they moved frequently at night (01:04:36:00)  If the enemy knew where the platoon was a night, they could send mortars in or ambush the platoon, so Bassett adopted a series of tactics to prevent this (01:05:01:00) o The platoon would wake up in a different place every morning and would move and stop; Bassett would reconnaissance a place the platoon would spend the night, go someplace else, then go back to the place he had done reconnaissance on earlier (01:05:14:00)  The platoon got used to the tactics but they did not like it at first (01:05:42:00) The commanders often rotated battalions in and out of the job, which was not all that entirely difficult because the soldiers were in a quasi-friendly area (01:05:55:00) o There were South Vietnamese regional forces who would sleep in covered bunkers while Bassett’s soldiers had to sleep in the mud (01:06:12:00) �o Bassett took steps to ensure the safety of the platoon, including taking some of the key people in the platoon and going into villages (01:06:33:00)  Once the platoon had set up for the night, Bassett would tell his platoon sergeant that they were going to go for a little walk, so they would go with some tiger scouts, former VC who had switched sides, and Bassett would take them on a Ranger patrol on the outskirts of a village (01:06:47:00)  The soldiers would settle in at the outskirts and Bassett would tell the tiger scout to just listen to hear what the villagers were saying (01:07:18:00)  During these smaller patrols, Bassett and the soldiers had to watch out for ducks, which would cause a tremendous racket, which acted as a great alert system for the village (01:07:33:00)  If the scout heard a conversation, which was uncommon because the villagers tended to go to bed early, then Bassett would exchange sign language with his soldiers and while maneuvering them around the hut, he and the scout would go inside the hut to see who the occupants were talking to and quite often, they caught the enemy (01:07:48:00)  One time, they managed to capture a VC lieutenant who was home on leave (01:08:20:00)  The soldiers would call in someone to take the enemy away and either the wife or mother of the soldier would have a fit, so Bassett would have the scout tell them that the soldiers were not going to kill their loved one (01:08:30:00)  The people the soldiers captured often divulged information but if Bassett was ever wrong, then they released the person (01:08:45:00)  By being active, Bassett and his soldiers set the time-table for how the enemy would be able to operate (01:09:00:00) o During the dry season, the platoon would spend around five or six nights in the field but during the rainy season, the platoon would only spend around three or four nights out because they were always wet, especially after walking through rice paddies (01:09:15:00)  If the soldiers walked on the rice paddy dikes, there were often booby traps on the dikes, so the soldiers often had to walk in the rice paddies themselves, although the locals tended to sometimes know where the booby traps would be on a dike (01:09:43:00)  One time, the platoon was working in an a semi-friendly area and a farmer with two water buffalo was working in a rice paddy; as the platoon went by, the farmer said something quietly to one of the tiger scouts and the scout said the farmer had said that there were two booby-traps in front of the platoon (01:10:01:00)  A day later, the platoon was in the same area and there were two packs of cigarettes outside the farmer’s village doorway from the platoon; it was the platoon’s way of saying thank you without burning one of their sources (01:10:34:00) o In the sector where the platoon operated, Bassett and his small group would patrol to see who was there but just their presence counteracted the presence of the enemy (01:11:14:00) �  If the soldiers sat back in a little shell, then the enemy controlled everything around them but if the soldiers changed their schedule, then the enemy had to change their schedule (01:11:28:00) When the platoon was on the move for a four-day operation in a known hostile area, they could possibly exchange fire with the enemy four times, although the platoon was never ambushed (01:12:05:00) o The Delta area was all rice paddies, then a stream with villages in the woodline near the stream; when the soldiers went through the woodline, then there were more rice paddies and the order repeated itself (01:12:42:00) o Walking thorough the rice paddies, the soldiers went up and down because of berms; the soldiers did not want to walking into the woodline because that was where they could be shoot at but if the soldiers got into the woodline, then they were able to shoot at the enemy (01:13:01:00) o If someone watches the History Channel, then they see footage of the camouflaged enemy and although sometimes the enemy was good, there were some times when they were not as good (01:13:32:00)  There were times that the soldiers caught the enemy joking around with each other (01:13:51:00)  One time, the platoon came off the river and while hacking their way through a stand of bamboo, they found three hidden Honda motorcycles; Bassett figured that the motorcycles were either stolen or the enemy’s, so the soldiers blew them up (01:14:08:00) o The soldiers continued through the bamboo and crossed a little stream when they heard talking and found three enemy soldiers sitting and smoking (01:14:45:00) o Bassett quietly brought the rest of the soldiers up before standing up and telling the soldiers to come with them; however, the soldiers chose the other option, which was the wrong option (01:15:05:00) o The platoon could get into smaller fights like the one in the bamboo or into larger fights with the enemy, including fights lasting for a couple of days (01:16:05:00)  One time, the platoon flew into a main force battalion and landed on top of them; the platoon lost the first helicopter but Bassett managed to put his people together (01:16:26:00)  If a soldier served in the Delta, he had to have a swim qualification because it was a delta, therefore near the ocean, and the tides would rise greatly (01:17:19:00)  At the end of the mission, Bassett swam some of his soldiers out on an air mattress because everything had flooded (01:17:51:00) o The fighting was in a coconut plantation with large palm trees and ditches so that as the water came up, the soldiers had to pull some of their shorter comrades up because the water was over their head (01:18:36:00)  In order to retrieve a dead soldier’s body during the fighting, Bassett had to take out an enemy machine gun; however, two other �enemy bunkers began firing, so the other soldiers began laying down covering fire against the bunkers (01:18:56:00) o The soldiers managed to get their comrade’s body but had to pull the body using ropes because they were still under fire (01:19:36:00) o As the platoon got the body, Bassett got on top of one of the bunkers and saw an enemy standing on top one of the other bunkers, pointing his weapon at Bassett but instead of firing, the enemy waved; Bassett waved back and began firing at the other bunker (01:19:43:00)  Bassett has no idea how the exchange worked but the enemy soldier allowed the platoon to retrieve the dead soldier’s body (01:20:11:00)  In one sense, the platoon landing on the enemy battalion was not an accident because they found what their commanders were looking for (01:21:04:00)  The platoon eventually fell back to a second line of bunkers and then pulled back further because there was going to be an artillery strike and that was when the soldiers had to swim out because of the tidal changes (01:21:09:00)  The soldiers in platoon were great and several formed a core in the platoon who Bassett could rely on (01:21:36:00) o During the fight, another soldier helped Bassett with the soldiers who could not swim and the equipment; Bassett would swim into the middle of the river with the air mattress then the other soldier would swim the other half, load up the mattress with soldiers and equipment and swim it back to Bassett (01:22:54:00)  The soldiers had to spend that night in the field and the water came up to their waist, so Bassett had pairs sitting back to back while flares and artillery went off during the night (01:23:19:00)  The platoon went back into the coconut plantation the next day and did not end up leaving the plantation until the third day; when the platoon went in the second time, the soldiers were told that other forces were going in as well but the soldiers were still acting by themselves and did not see any other soldiers (01:23:34:00)  The Americans pounded the area with artillery but ended up losing a gunship in the process; Bassett’s platoon found the gunship wreckage but it had burned so much that the soldiers could not tell pilot from co-pilot (01:23:48:00)  As with all guerilla wars, the VC hid their dead bodies; they weighted the bodies down, sunk them in the canals, and then went back later to get them (01:24:09:00) o Most fights were short and quick and although the platoon never came across any large force, the soldiers were always on edge (01:24:35:00) �   It reached the point that the soldiers in the platoon depended on Bassett and when the commanders finally pulled him off the line, that was when he received his greatest compliment (01:25:01:00) o The new platoon leader came in while the platoon was aboard a ship and after the new leader arrived, one of the soldiers from the platoon came up and said they wanted to talk with Bassett (01:25:19:00)  Bassett said okay and went down to where the troops stayed on the ship below deck; when he did so, the soldiers told him that they wanted him to come back and be their platoon leader because the new platoon leader was going to get all the soldiers killed (01:25:38:00)  There was no better compliment for Bassett to receive from the soldiers in the platoon (01:26:01:00) One battalion of the Riverine Force was always in the field while the other battalion was “drying out”, especially during the wet season, when it was also get cold, although not as cold as the Central Highlands; if the temperature got down to 60°, the soldiers were wet, and it was raining, then it was uncomfortable (01:26:34:00) o The battalions tended to rotate, going out for a week, coming back for a week, then repeating the process (01:27:01:00) o One of the problems the soldiers faced was immersion foot, which is what happened if a soldier’s foot got wet and did not dry out properly, the skin began to rot away (01:27:13:00)  During times when there was sun, Bassett would stop the platoon, have every other soldier take his boots off, and place their feet in the sun in order to dry out the soldiers’ feet (01:27:37:00)  When the platoon went back to the ship, they all smelled funky, which the Navy hated, so the Navy had a fire hose they used to spray the soldiers down with before allowing the soldiers back on the ship (01:27:57:00)  Once aboard the ship, the soldiers changed into fresh clothes and were under orders to wear only flip-flops and report to the medic so he could check their feet (01:28:26:00) o The only other problem the soldiers had in the field were leeches, which were interesting creatures (01:28:38:00)  The soldiers could go from one rice paddy to another with nothing then all of a sudden, each soldier had four or five leeches, although they would only know by looking for them (01:28:53:00)  In the field, there were only two ways to get the leeches off: there was spraying the insect repellant issued by the Army or someone else burning the head off with a lit cigarette (01:29:05:00)  Depending on how long a soldier waited until he checked, he could had leeches all over his body, especially if he was sitting in the water for a long period (01:29:25:00)  All the soldiers were afraid of getting leeches near their private parts, which was always a standing joke (01:29:05:00) Bassett spent around six or seven months with the battalion (01:30:03:00) � o During that time, the size of the enemy forces decreased and part of the reason for that was that the enemy was better at staying away from the soldiers; on the other hand, another explanation is the enemy units were simply smaller (01:30:25:00) o Generally, the soldiers had short bursts and encounters with the enemy, although every now and then, they ran into larger enemy forces (01:30:36:00) All the reporters Bassett encountered while in Vietnam were disingenuous people; Bassett believes that there were probably some good reporters but he did not encounter any of them (01:31:01:00) o On occasion, reporters wanted to go with the soldiers into the field but that depended on where the soldiers were and what they were doing; if there was an easy way for the reporter to get out, then he or she wanted to go along, and if there was not, then the reporter did not want to go (01:31:13:00)  One time, Bassett was on the ship with a reporter when word came down to get ready for a night insertion; one of the other companies was getting hit fairly hard, so the soldier would be picked up off the deck of the ship and taken at night to an LZ (01:31:41:00)  During that mission, the reporter did not want to go with the platoon (01:32:01:00) o Another time, Bassett was chatting with a reporter and the reporter said he had to write stories his editor wanted or he was out of a job; if the editor wanted shock and awe stories, then the reporter wrote shock and awe stories (01:32:05:00)  The reporter said that a story about soldiers mutilating enemy prisoners went immediately but a story about soldiers helping a village would never get printed (01:32:30:00) o As he was about the leave the country, Bassett did an interview with Dan Webster from CBS News (01:32:45:00)  The interview began with simple questions but before long, Webster asked Bassett how long he thought it would be before the South Vietnamese government fell (01:32:59:00)  Bassett said that question was predicated on the assumption that the South Vietnamese government was going to fall and Bassett said that he was not sure they knew that, so Webster ended the interview (01:33:20:00)  Another time, Bassett did a LIFE magazine photo-op and was asked the same question about the South Vietnamese government but in a different fashion, which was a killer for the interview (01:33:31:00)  Instead of asking how Bassett’s family was and what he missed, the reporter wanted to know when everything was going to go wrong (01:33:47:00)  Bassett gave the same answer as he gave Webster, which was not what the reporter wanted to hear (01:33:57:00) o According to Bassett the reporters were only writing what their bureau chief told them to write (01:34:07:00) o There were some great reporters but Bassett did not know them (01:34:13:00) o For a lot of reporters, their stories depended on if they wanted to leave their hotel room and go into the field or if they wanted to just take someone else’s story and use it for their own (01:35:05:00) �   Apart from watching at night, the soldiers patrolled through the villages during the day; sometimes, the villagers were in the villages and sometimes, they were not (01:36:03:00) o Usually, the villages had all the men and most of the women working in the fields; if they were not working in the fields, then a villager was either making something to sell in the market, purchasing items from the market, tending their livestock, or eating (01:36:20:00) o The villagers would be doing their business and the soldiers would either leave them alone or chat with them for a little bit (01:36:52:00)  Sometimes, villagers would tell the soldiers if there were things they did not like but all in all the soldiers did not spend too much time in the villages (01:37:02:00) o A village was a village; there were dirt strips between the buildings, large pieces of pottery that held water for the dry season and each building had a bunker inside of it (01:37:13:00)  In the Delta, whatever the composition of dirt and mud, it became concrete-like when it dried out, so the entire Delta was full of bunkers and soldiers would see old, unused bunkers all the time (01:37:37:00) Bassett’s tactics were to keep moving, not let the enemy know where he was, be erratic in his behavior and if he was aggressive, then the enemy would move away but if he was passive, he was in-active and if he was in-active, then he could be targeted (01:38:26:00) Over the six months Bassett was with the battalion, there was a turn-over amongst the soldiers and that was part of the problem of the war; the problem was that there was always three groups of people (01:38:57:00) o The first group were the short-time soldiers who only had a few months to go before going home while the second group were the soldiers who had experience and were fully trained to fight the enemy (01:39:24:00) o The final group were the soldier who had no idea what was going on, were afraid, and needed to be taught by the other soldiers; these soldiers could be very aggressive and confident but also stupid and needed to be taught (01:39:37:00)  On the other hand, the soldiers who only had a few months to go were not as likely to stick their heads out (01:40:04:00) o Bassett feels that the middle group did a good job in helping the soldiers in the final group (01:40:23:00)  Unless a soldier was a real self-starter, when stuff hit the fan and kicked off, first off, combat was noisy and nobody was going to be able to hear them (01:40:35:00) Reflections (01:41:09:00)  During one of his first major contacts, while Bassett was looking for someone to tell him what to do while everyone else was looking at him, which was a rite of passage for him (01:41:09:00) o Once he went through that experience, Bassett realized the soldiers were his and began giving orders to them (01:42:07:00) o At different points, Bassett got tuned into an environment so his senses worked for him and could tell him when something was not right; one soldier, a Colombian exchange student, said he could smell the enemy (01:42:53:00) �    For whatever reason, American dogs could not stand the smell of the Vietnamese while on the other hand, Vietnamese water buffalo could not stand the smell the soldiers (01:43:57:00)  After awhile, even the soldiers could pick up scents if the wind blew in the right direction, especially if it was a large group of people (01:44:29:00) o There were acts of God involved, such as why some people died and some people did not, that have Bassett pondering how things like happened (01:45:14:00) Bassett was never seriously injured; he took a grazing round down his back while he was crawling forward and shrapnel in his leg from a booby-trapped grenade (01:46:29:00) o One time, Bassett gave a class in how to find booby-traps to the new soldiers in an area where one of his tiger scouts nearly died from a booby-trap (01:46:52:00)  At the time, the platoon was stationed along an old French road as a security force, so Bassett took the new soldiers, some of whom had only spent days in the platoon, and told them different scenarios about where they would find booby-traps (01:47:48:00)  As he was giving the class, Bassett heard a ping sound and told them all to get down while he hit the ground; luckily, it was one of the few times he had a flak jacket on because his side was pelted with rocks (01:48:29:00)  Bassett had some shrapnel in his legs, so a helicopter picked him up and took him to a hospital, where a doctor removed the shrapnel (01:48:57:00) o However, as Bassett thinks back, the grenade might not have been booby-trapped because he remembers see someone crawling through the undergrowth and firing several rounds at them (01:49:45:00) The base camp was secondary; because the battalion was part of the Riverine Force, they were never in the base camp (01:50:21:00) o Instead, the soldiers went back to the ship, where the food was good and the Navy took care of them; living on a ship was not all that bad, although the soldiers had very little to do (01:50:30:00)  Every now and then, the soldiers had beer day, although they were not allowed to drink on the ship; instead, the soldiers went to a pontoon boat with an ammo shack on it and drank a warm beer before returning to the ship (01:50:48:00)  When aboard ship, Bassett watched the other soldiers, wrote letters home, and chat with the lieutenants he shared his quarters with (01:51:02:00) At the time, there was a deal where the soldiers could get one in-country R&R, so Bassett and a group went on Vung Tau (01:51:36:00) o There were some women there who played tic-tac-toe with the soldiers for money but Bassett did not do that; he just used the time to get away (01:52:07:00) o He eventually got sick, flew back the next morning, and was in an ambush position later that night, although he was still sick (01:52:27:00)  Behind the soldier’s position was an old village hut with roosters in the top of it; Bassett was angry because he had had a rotten night and when a rooster started to crow, he took a c-ration, threw the container and hit the rooster in the head, killing it instantly (01:53:03:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bassett, Dennis (Interview outline and video, 1 of 2), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bassett, Dennis Description An account of the resource Dennis Bassett was born in 1942 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. After graduating from high school in 1960, Bassett decided he wanted a different direction for his life, so he enlisted in the Army. After completing both his basic and advanced training at Fort Knox in Kentucky, Bassett deployed to Korea, where he worked at a medical depot. Once he finished his tour in Korea, Bassett returned to the United States and worked with a Ranger training company in Georgia before receiving his discharge. Following his discharge, Bassett went through four years of college, with the final two years in ROTC and as a result of his time in the ROTC, after his graduation, received a Regular Army commission. After receiving the commission, Bassett went back through Ranger school and deployed to Vietnam, where he served with the 9th Infantry Division in the Mekong Delta region as part of the Riverine Force, and served as a platoon leader in the 3/60 Infantry for the first half of his tour. (see Part 2 for the rest of the story) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-04-26 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BassettD1107V1 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4cd9778e9d80b14d421894c928d3fe39.mp4 3c8de6d5556a641ff830cef713437a92 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a6ddcf60f269a1c1fd0faa69fcb1367c.pdf 97c308242c202745fed16e85c99a8987 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Dennis Bassett part 2 Vietnam / Cold War Interview Length: (02:29:29:00) Vietnam Tour Recap (00:00:04:00)  Bassett’s tour of duty in Vietnam lasted from 1968 through 1969, and he originally as a platoon leader in Alpha Company, 3rd Battalion, 60th Infantry, 2nd Brigade, 9th Infantry Division (00:00:04:00) o The soldiers Bassett commanded were pretty good, although the farm boys were a little bit better than the city boys because the farm boys were more comfortable outdoors (00:00:57:00)  If Bassett made the soldiers comfortable and they knew that Bassett knew what he was doing, then they would go along (00:01:11:00)  At certain points of time, the situation would go wrong rapidly and every would look to Bassett, asking for direction, and these were the moments Bassett realized he needed to step up and lead the soldiers (00:01:18:00)  If Bassett did the right thing at the right time, based instinctively on his training, then the other soldiers followed him (00:01:45:00)  Of the soldiers that Bassett traveled with at the front of his platoon, one was a Hispanic from California, another was from Colombia, another was a potato farmer from Idaho, and another was a kid from Saginaw, Michigan (00:02:11:00)  They were normal guys thrown together with different backgrounds but they coalesced during their tours (00:02:45:00)  The normal Army policy was to keep an officer as a platoon leader for six months, so after his six months were up, Bassett was pulled up to be an assistant to the 2nd Brigade intelligence officer (S-2) (00:03:39:00) o Because Bassett had a Ranger and an Infantry background, part of his job was whenever long-range patrols were assigned to 2nd Brigade, he would organize and oversee their operations; coordinate their drop off/pick up and maintain communications (00:03:53:00)  Eventually, the Army brought in a compact, tripod-mounted radar set and they ordered Bassett to form a team that would erect different radio sets throughout their province (00:04:50:00) o Each unit in the brigade designated a soldier, usually someone the commander wanted to get rid of, and they, along with Bassett, all went to a class about the radar sets (00:05:16:00)  The sets were ground reconnaissance radar and Bassett and his men had to develop a way to get them into the field (00:05:29:00)  Not all of the men assigned to Bassett were extremely bright; however, even the mentally dull soldiers would still work, so Bassett would find jobs that suited them (00:05:41:00) � o Eventually, the soldiers developed towers to mount the radar sets on that separated into two parts and could be erected in various MACV Regional Forces (RF) compounds around the province (00:06:10:00)  Bassett did not do much at all except watch as the soldiers went to work; as it turned out, the soldiers were very clever in doing their work (00:06:33:00) o Early on, Bassett had trouble maintaining communications with all his soldiers because whenever the soldiers mounted a radar set in one of the RF compounds, they would stay at the compound to show the other soldiers who and what was around the compound (00:06:50:00) o At one point, Bassett went on R&R to Hawaii and when he came back, there was a jeep and trailer waiting for him, with his name, a radar symbol, and the letters OIC (Officer-In-Charge) written on the top of the spare tire on the back (00:07:07:00) o Eventually, Bassett’s NCO said they had set up an antenna so Bassett could talk with all his soldiers; however, when a captain came around asking if Bassett had taken an antenna and if it was Bassett’s but Bassett lied and said that they had had the antenna for months (00:07:32:00) o When his unit was eventually pulled out of the area, Bassett tried turning in the equipment that his men had procured but the soldier in charge said he could not take the equipment because they were not on his records; to this day, Bassett does not know what happened to his jeep (00:08:09:00)  Nevertheless, the jeep was very helpful because if one of the radar units ever went down, since it was a 24/7 operation, Bassett and his men needed to get a replacement out immediately and they used the jeep and the trailer to help move equipment (00:08:38:00) o Bassett does not know exactly how effective the radar sets were because the sets were only in the testing phase but he and his soldiers still had fun with them (00:09:32:00)  On different occasions, Bassett would spend three or four days at a compound making sure the radars worked properly and at different points, he would point out enemies to the soldiers in the compound, who would often launch an M-79 grenade to where Bassett indicated (00:09:40:00) o The radar sets themselves were no more than a foot and a half tall with a fan mounted on the back that would sweep back and forth while one of Bassett’s soldier would be below it, looking at a screen (00:10:30:00) When Bassett served in the brigade headquarters, the brigade commander was a very demanding man, although many times, his demands did not make sense (00:12:05:00) o On a normal day, the commander would return to the headquarters ship and after eating a meal, would have a meeting with all his staff around seven o’clock in the evening that lasted roughly two hours (00:12:13:00)  Some of the time was spent by the commander ranting and raving about different things and once the meeting was finished, the commander would give out different missions to accomplish (00:12:34:00) �  The staff officers would work on the missions while also preparing for the morning briefing, which was at around five or six o’clock in the morning (00:12:50:00)  After the morning briefing, the officers would run a normal cycle before the evening briefing, which was a very tiresome schedule (00:13:01:00)  Eventually, the commanding officer began firing officers because the officers were too confused about their orders (00:13:11:00)  At one point, the brigade XO was so confused that he introduced the headquarters company commander as himself, which caused a small pause; after the incident, the brigade commander fired the XO and sent him to the 4th Infantry Division (00:13:21:00) o The only clever staff officer was the brigade S-1, a career major (00:13:59:00)  The brigade commander was writing so many bad OERs (Officer Efficiency Reports) and the S-1 recognized the commander was unstable, so if the S-1 did not like the report, he would change it (00:14:10:00)  One time, the brigade commander ordered Bassett to be in two different places simultaneously; Bassett repeated the order and said, “yes sir, can do” (00:14:30:00) o The brigade S-3, another major, helped keep stability amongst the officers and reminded the others that there were still sane people in the world (00:14:53:00) o The brigade commander had a personal helicopter to fly him to different locations and it eventually reached the point that soldiers would lie and fake being sick so they did not have to fly with the commander (00:15:22:00) o At one point, the commander ordered a lieutenant to keep him updated as to the situation for a company that had been inserted into the field; when the lieutenant came back and said the company was not inserted, the commander said he was certain that it was (00:15:49:00)  The commander ordered the lieutenant to check again and when the lieutenant reported that the company had not been inserted, the commander accused the lieutenant of lying, ordered the lieutenant to get out of the TOC (Tactical Operations Center), and turning to the brigade S1, said he wanted the lieutenant in the field by morning (00:16:28:00)  The lieutenant did not know anything about operating in the field, so Bassett gave him all of his old equipment and the next day, the lieutenant was in the field; two days later, the lieutenant was wounded (00:16:53:00) o The brigade commander did not last too long but regardless, there was still something wrong with him (00:17:27:00) o Although the original brigade commander was taken out, Bassett does not recall his replacement because it was nearing the end of his tour and the entire Army was slowly falling back, with Bassett’s unit being one of the ones selected to be entirely withdrawn (00:17:44:00)  The brigade was selected to be pulled out but soldiers from all over the division were brought in to bring the unit to full strength before it was brought back to the U.S. (00:18:10:00) During the brigade’s withdrawal from Vietnam, the soldiers were taken off of ships and sent to a base camp on land, where they trained in how to properly march (00:18:27:00) �  o The soldiers were flown out as a group to Seattle, where they had to march through downtown Seattle in new uniforms the Army had issued (00:18:34:00)  Peace movement hippies were at the march but they misjudged the soldiers (00:19:12:00)  Prior to the march, the soldiers were staying at Fort Lewis, just outside Seattle, and on the day of the march, all the soldiers loaded into buses and after the march, they all got back onto buses (00:19:27:00)  Due to the speed of travel, the time between when soldiers were in country and in the United States was compressed (00:19:54:00)  As the soldiers were sitting on the buses, members of the peace movement kept trying to shove pamphlets and pieces of paper with anti-war slogans into the windows (00:20:10:00)  One anti-war guy tried to walk onto Bassett’s bus carrying a Viet Cong flag and Bassett literally kicked him out (00:20:42:00)  The soldiers had the buses’ windows down and as the buses started to move, the hippies kept trying to shove the papers in, so some of the soldiers began grabbing their arms (00:21:07:00) o A similar situation happened to Bassett when he was in Maryland (00:21:46:00) o For Bassett, it was difficult to differentiate between the peace/anti-war movement and the Viet Cong movement because thirty days prior, if he saw someone carrying at Viet Cong flag, he shot at them but now, if he saw someone carrying that flag, he could not do anything (00:21:56:00) Once their processing was complete, all the soldiers broke up and went to the airport in Seattle, where Bassett and a group of other soldiers sat in a bar (00:23:14:00) o In the bar, Bassett and the others “formed a blockade” because they knew that once they left the bar, they were all going their separate ways (00:23:46:00) o Civilians would walk up, asking what the soldiers were doing, and the soldiers would explain that they had just returned from Vietnam; the civilians wanted to join them but the soldiers would not let them (00:24:02:00) Eventually, Bassett caught a plane and returned home, although he does not tell anyone that he was coming home (00:24:43:00) o No one was at Bassett’s home when he got back, so he waited outside in his uniform, took his shoes off, stuck his feet in his pool, and waited for his wife to come home (00:25:09:00) o Before Bassett had left for Vietnam, there was a loose piece of molding and he pounded a nail partially into the molding, with the intention that one year later, he would come back and finish the job (00:25:32:00)  Bassett partially did that for his family because where they were living, it was not uncommon to see an Army car driving by; it drove the wives nuts because sometimes, the cars would slow down in front of their houses to see an address (00:26:12:00)  After Bassett was already home, his wife received a phone call reporting that Bassett had been killed in action; the phone call was not from the Army but was from peace activists (00:26:30:00)  Bassett’s wife responded that it was unusually because Bassett was sleeping in their bed (00:26:58:00) �Ranger Instructor / Language Training (00:26:58:00)  Eventually, Bassett received an assignment to the Ranger department (00:27:14:00) o The Rangers ran three different training bases: one at Fort Benning, Georgia, another in the mountains at Dahlonega, Georgia, and one in Florida; each base represented a different phase of Ranger training (00:27:23:00) o Bassett’s boss in the Rangers happened to be born on exactly the same day and in the same year as Bassett, although he wanted to fire Bassett on the first day Bassett was there (00:27:58:00)  They were supposed to set up a ropes course for the day and Bassett, who had arrived early, had gone to get the ropes and started hooking the ropes up; the boss was upset with Bassett because Bassett had not officially reported to work yet (00:28:10:00)  The boss had told Bassett to be at a certain spot at a certain time and to get certain things ready; Bassett had just arrived early to do the work but the boss did not see Bassett’s car, so he assumed Bassett had not shown up for work (00:28:27:00)  Instead, Bassett had already started doing the work and the boss commended him on his initiative (00:28:38:00)  Bassett’s second assignment with the Rangers was at Fort Benning working as a lane instructor, which was instructor who would take the Ranger trainees out and grade them on their actions (00:29:03:00) o Usually, each trainee would have a different assignment; none of the trainees knew what his individual assignment would be but Bassett knew the assignments for each soldier (00:29:25:00)  Bassett graded each trainee individually, which meant Bassett always had to be present; if they were rainy and cold, then Bassett was rainy and cold (00:29:45:00) o Although Bassett did have some form of power over the trainees, he was not allowed to show favoritism; Bassett could do nothing to interface or hint anything to any of the trainees (00:30:01:00) o The trainees that Bassett oversaw were both officer trainees and candidates as well as enlisted personnel (00:30:25:00)  The Rangers program had two sets of instructors: one set was for the traditional two-and-a-half month training course and the other set was for a two-week long OCS training course (00:30:31:00)  There was also a course for the “shake-n-bake” NCOs, the top-rated NCOs and enlisted personnel during basic training (00:30:50:00)  Both the OCS and “shake-n-bake” courses were abbreviated leadership courses and Bassett was more involved with them over the traditional, long training course (00:31:10:00)  After finishing the training course, Bassett and the other instructors would take the trainees into the woods for a week (00:31:28:00)  Bassett spent roughly a year working at Fort Benning as a line instructor and the reason he moved jobs was because according to Army policy, if at the time the received their � commission, an officer was Regular Army, which Bassett was, then that officer had to spend two years in a combat arm, either infantry, armored or artillery (00:31:50:00) o After the two years, an officer could chose to stay in their particular combat arm or he could go into a specialized branch; Bassett personally chose to go into intelligence (00:32:14:00) After making his decision to go to the intelligence branch, Bassett was sent through a selection process in Washington D.C. (00:32:44:00) o When asked what he wanted to do, Bassett said that he did not know and asked what he could do; Bassett and another man had a circular conversation for several minutes before the other man suggested Bassett try something (00:32:56:00)  The other man said Bassett was going to need language training and suggested Bassett go to German language school; when Bassett asked where he had to go, the man said he needed to check if Bassett had an aptitude for studying a foreign language (00:33:14:00)  The man asked if Bassett was good in math, which Bassett was not, so the man ordered Bassett back to Fort Benning to take a foreign language aptitude test (00:33:36:00) o Bassett went to the testing center at Fort Benning and when he asked what he needed to pass the test, a man at the center said that they preferred soldiers to pass the test with at least at 60 or 70 but the lowest minimum was 40 (00:33:54:00)  Bassett asked what kind of test it was but the man said nothing, except for Bassett to just take the test (00:34:14:00)  The aptitude test consisted of a made-up language and Bassett had to pick out a verb or a specific word; the entire test did not make any sense to Bassett (00:34:18:00)  After he finished the test, Bassett turned it into the proctor, who said he would grade it for Bassett before sending it in officially (00:34:38:00)  Once he graded the test, the proctor told Bassett that he had gotten an 8, a score that the proctor did not recall ever seeing before and the proctor said he did not think Bassett was going to go to language school (00:34:48:00) o Bassett returned to Washington and the man there said because Bassett had scored so low, the man could not send Bassett to language school (00:35:01:00)  Bassett argued that although he was not overly bright, he was very disciplined and if the man sent him to language school, then Bassett was going to learn that language (00:35:15:00)  The man relented, sent Bassett to the language school and true to his word, Bassett “learned” the language; at the school, Bassett did not learn the language so much as he memorized it (00:35:22:00)  Bassett worked four times as hard as everyone else in his classes to pass, while there were some other men who did not do anything in the classes but still managed to learn the language (00:35:41:00)  The hard work eventually paid off when Bassett spent eight years living in Germany (00:36:07:00) Germany 1 / Intelligence Training / Philosophical Discussion (00:36:07:00) �      After completing his language training for German, the Army gave Bassett a deployment to work in Munich, Germany; when he deployed to Germany, Bassett was allowed to bring his family with him (00:37:16:00) Once in Germany, Bassett’s assignment was working in special intelligence collection; the assignment required Bassett’s German language skills in order to develop HUMINT (Human Intelligence) sources (00:37:27:00) o In developing the intelligence sources, Bassett had to use very sensitive methods and procedures (00:38:07:00) o Bassett spent a large amount of time traveling around, meeting different individuals and discussing possible business opportunities; however, with most of the “business opportunities”, only one side was fully knowledgeable about what the full extent of the possibilities were (00:38:15:00) o As a result of his traveling, Bassett had the opportunity to see large amounts of Germany (00:38:33:00) Bassett was in Germany from 1971 until August 1974 (00:38:40:00) o Apart from traveling around Germany, Bassett also took a lot of road trips on a motorcycle to different parts of Europe (00:39:19:00) Where Bassett was stationed in Germany, the soldiers did not have access to any American television media; the soldiers only had access to American radio (00:41:30:00) o The soldiers’ world was contained within their job and their immediate surroundings, so their perception of the political menstruations of the outside world, such as President Nixon’s continued efforts at détente with the Soviets and Chinese were limited (00:41:40:00) o Apart from periodic flareups, there was little going on within their surroundings, so the soldiers viewed the world differently (00:41:59:00)  For people in the United States, they were protected by oceans on two sides and the Chinese did not have missiles capable of reaching them, so what was the point of worrying about them (00:42:12:00)  The soldiers’ world condensed the closer they were to their potential enemy (00:42:19:00) After he completed his tour in Germany in 1974, the Army sent Bassett to the Intelligence Officers Advance Course at Fort Huachuca, Arizona (00:41:40:00) o The course was nine months long and consisted of doing two major papers as well as making a presentation, a large amount of reading and test taking (00:42:49:00) Once he completed the training at Fort Huachuca, Bassett became a training company commander at the fort (00:43:01:00) o In the simplest sense, Bassett was a dorm master; he made sure all the soldiers fell out for formation in the morning, took the soldiers to class, brought the soldiers back from class, fed the soldiers, and ferreted out the bad soldiers so they could be discharged from the Army (00:43:21:00) o The soldiers in Bassett’s company were going through their first round of skill set training for their MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) (00:43:45:00)  Everyone went through the generic basic training and after that, each soldier went into a specific course that trained them in a viable, usable skill for the military (00:43:54:00) �  The MOS for the soldiers in Bassett’s company was intelligence, although they did not all receive the same type of training (00:44:14:00)  Some of the soldiers were going to be maintenance men for the radars Bassett had worked with in Vietnam while others trained to be the radar operators (00:44:24:00)  The MOS for the radar operators was such that if a soldier flunked out of every other school, then they would get that training because it was very simplistic (00:44:54:00)  Although not all the soldiers were brilliant, that did not mean they were all useless; not everyone had to be smart to serve a purpose but each person had to be good at what he did (00:45:14:00) o For some of the soldiers, it was a perfect fit and they provided a service; on the other hand, some of the soldiers were still bums (00:45:36:00) o The Army’s discharge program was such that anyone could be discharged within six months, so long as there was a cause for the discharge (00:45:48:00) o Overall, the quality of the soldiers Bassett commanded at Fort Huachuca were not as good as the quality of the soldiers Bassett commanded during his tour in Vietnam (00:46:32:00)  According to Bassett’s perspective, most of the soldiers killed in Vietnam were white, most were around 19 years old, and most were volunteers (00:46:36:00) Bassett believes that philosophically, within males, there is a curiosity as to whether each man is a warrior or not and that the men who volunteered to fight in Vietnam did so in order to answer that question about themselves (00:47:07:00) o The men also felt a need or calling to support their country, so they volunteered for the Army, specifically with the intentions of going to Vietnam (00:47:32:00) o On the other hand, Bassett believes that other men are afraid to answer the question directly, so they joined either the Army Reserves or the National Guard or they sought an outright deferment (00:47:44:00)  In Bassett’s experience, these men often sought these routes because they were afraid; however, the men covered their fear by making claims such as having philosophical objections to war (00:47:53:00) o Bassett paints the decision very clearly, either a man would chose to go or would chose not go (00:48:20:00) o On several different occasions, Bassett has had others come up to him and confess that they did not have the guts to go to Vietnam, so they enlisted in the Army Reserves instead (00:48:22:00)  Bassett perceives these admissions as the people showing that they carry that fact around out of a sense of guilt (00:48:40:00) o According to Bassett, the only good thing to come out of serving in a war is serving helps answer the question of how an individual would respond in a situation, a question everyone has tried to answer since their birth (00:48:50:00) o Speaking from his personal experiences in the war, the commonly-held conceptions of the war: it was a draftee's war, it was a poor man’s war, and it was largely fought by minorities, were not the case (00:49:47:00) �    When someone was in the field in a line unit, there were not distinctions between the different groups; they were all Bassett’s “boys” and he went with them (00:49:53:00) o Everyone, including the draftees, all had the same training and they all wanted to get out of the fighting alive (00:50:18:00)  In Bassett’s experience, as a result of their training, the soldiers had a sense that if involved in a battle, they should try and kill as many people as possible and not let any of the enemy escape (00:50:26:00)  Often times, Bassett and his men were largely by themselves, without any support for a substantial distance, so they could not afford to let people get away (00:50:47:00)  The soldiers were taught to be aggressive and to treat the fighting as merely a “business” (00:51:40:00) The Army tended to draw a large amount of their forces from the South because that was where a large majority of their military bases were, which meant the soldiers were able to train year-round (00:52:25:00) o Southern men have a tradition of fighting for and, sometimes against, the United States that stretches back to the American Revolution and includes fighting for the Confederacy during the Civil War (00:52:32:00)  In some cases, it went so far as a soldier’s great-ancestors had fought in the Army, so it was almost expected that at some point, a child in the next generation was going to serve (00:52:58:00) As time has progressed, Bassett believes people join the military to escape what they perceived as a chaotic, unstructured society; the military represented a more basic, service-based society (00:53:19:00) o In the military, a person’s rank is often based on merit whereas in civilian society, it is possible for someone to achieve a higher standing by having a larger material wealth (00:54:02:00) Bassett finished his time as a training company commander at Fort Huachuca in 1976 then went to a six month counter-intelligence course before serving as a teacher at the fort (00:54:42:00) o Bassett also briefly attended an Organizational Development Course for four months at Fort Ord, California before returning to Fort Huachuca to implement the lessons he had learned (00:55:07:00)  After attending the course, Bassett became something akin to a consultant, who soldiers would go to express concerns about different problems or situations (00:56:02:00)  After hearing complaints, Bassett used a series of different methods and techniques to gain information about a situation before giving his observations and asking what the others wanted to be done (00:56:13:00)  While doing this job, Bassett discovered that when talking with others, the negatives always came before the positives (00:56:41:00)  By taking the course at Fort Ord, Bassett earned nine masters-degree credit hours from Pepperdine University (00:57:08:00) �  The course was very effective because the instructors used a large number of practical exercises (00:57:29:00) In 1978, Bassett’s commanders called with an offer to transfer to a Ranger battalion and work as the battalion’s S-2 (00:58:03:00) o Bassett said he would love to take the job but he had not been to Airborne school yet, a requirement for joining the Rangers; however, his commanders said that would not be a problem (00:58:25:00)  The following week, Bassett was going to go to Airborne school because a slot at the school was open; although Bassett did not like heights, he went to the school anyway (00:58:33:00) o After finishing Airborne school at Fort Benning, Bassett returned to Fort Huachuca, packed up everything and reported to the 2nd Ranger Battalion at Fort Lewis, Washington, just outside of Seattle (00:58:47:00) o Bassett stayed with the 2nd Ranger Battalion from January 1978 until July 1979 (00:59:02:00) o At the time, there were only two Ranger battalions in the entire Army, one of the East coast of the United States and one on the West coast, and they were constantly in a rotation; one battalion would be training while the other was on standby and vice versa (00:59:20:00)  Everyone in the battalion went on leave at the same time, officers included, and the battalion commander had what equated to absolute power (00:59:30:00) o In the time Bassett was there, the battalion was constantly on alert but the battalion never actually deployed (01:00:18:00)  One of the closest times the actually came to deploying was when there were a series of flare-ups in central Africa (01:00:28:00)  The battalion would constantly go through what were labeled as “readiness deployment exercises”, where the battalion would practice deploying based on different time frames, either in a two-, a six-, or an eight-hour time frame (01:01:00:00)  At the end of given time frame, the entire battalion, between five and six hundred soldiers, would be on a plane, flying to a location (01:01:26:00)  During the exercises, the officers would a Learjet and fly out before actually learning what their destination was, whether it was Hawaii, or Georgia (01:01:53:00)  More often then not, the exercises were in the morning and while the rest of the soldiers were packing up, the officers would receive the scenario (01:02:15:00) o During the exercises, Bassett’s soldiers had five jobs: removing the microphones from all the telephones, standing guard, organizing where the soldiers parked, making sure there were not outside forms of communication, and keeping reporters away (01:02:18:00) o Just after Bassett left the Rangers in 1979 for his next assignment was when the situation in Iran involving the Shah began rapidly deteriorating (01:03:17:00) � Before the Shah actually fell, Bassett received a phone call asking if he wanted to go to Iran; Bassett said okay and was told they would be in touch (01:03:44:00) o Bassett could have stayed with the Ranger battalion when his initial service period was finished; however, Bassett was very close to the battalion’s commanding officer, a lieutenant colonel, and decided to transfer with the lieutenant colonel, while a friend of Bassett’s filled the S-2 position (01:04:22:00)  A lot of the battalion staff ended up dying about a month after Bassett left in a night time C-130 crash in Nevada; the pilots were wearing night vision goggles but did not have a lot of experience with them and they flew the entire, fully-loaded plane, into the ground (01:04:58:00) Inspector General’s Office / Travel / Germany 2  After leaving the 2nd Ranger Battalion, Bassett went to the Inspector General’s office, where he had two different jobs (01:05:55:00) o The Inspector General did investigations to monitor the health and welfare of specific units and made sure soldiers were not taken advantage of (01:06:03:00) o Bassett and his co-workers in the office did investigations whenever someone made a complaint about what they perceived to be a problem, performed annual inspections that were known by a unit in advance and would test the unit’s accountability, efficiency, cleanliness, crime prevention, etc. (01:06:26:00)  The inspections usually lasted several days as a whole team of inspectors went through the unit, going over everything from personnel records to the armories (01:06:53:00) o When not performing inspections, whenever soldiers would call asking for an appointment with an inspector general, Bassett would meet with them to discuss whatever was on the soldiers’ minds (01:07:07:00)  During the discussion, the soldier would make a complaint and Bassett would question as to what drove the soldier made the complaint; Bassett would write the complaint down and ask the soldier what he wanted Bassett to do (01:07:32:00)  Bassett would usually make suggestions and observations about what the soldier could do differently to fix any problems (01:08:20:00)  In a basic sense, the Inspector General was a place that soldiers could go to air their grievances without needed permission from their superiors (01:08:28:00) o Although he did the job, Bassett wanted to move on to something else; it was good to help people, especially when Bassett was able to fix a major problem but it took a certain personality to do the job really effectively (01:09:36:00)  After his time at the Inspector General’s office, Bassett traveled to Fort McCoy, Wisconsin, where he worked in the Chicago “readiness region”, working with the Army Reserve and National Guard units throughout Wisconsin and Iowa (01:11:21:00) o Bassett did not like doing the job, but he had good soldiers working for him, so he shut his mouth and drank coffee (01:12:16:00) �   Eventually, Bassett received a phone call asking him to go to Washington D.C. for an interview; when Bassett asked who he was talking to, they said that they would let him know later on (01:12:35:00) o When Bassett asked about paying for the flight to Washington, the people on the phone said if Bassett bought the ticket, they would reimburse him (01:13:01:00) o Bassett went to his boss and said he had received a phone call from someone he did not know, asking Bassett to go to Washington for an interview (01:13:06:00) o Bassett soon received another phone call asking if he was ready to go to Washington and when Bassett told them when he was flying in, they told him to meet them at a conference room at the airport; when Bassett walked into the room, there were two men wearing civilian clothes (01:13:34:00)  After finishing the interview, the two men suggested they and Bassett go for a ride, so the three went for lunch, after which the men gave Bassett money for a cab, a hotel room for the night, and money for his plane tickets and told Bassett they would be in touch (01:14:07:00) o About a month later, Bassett received another phone call saying that Bassett was going to Armed Forces Staff College (01:14:43:00) Bassett began attending the Armed Forces Staff College in January 1981, after which he worked with a unit that “did not have a name” and stayed there until 1983 (01:15:01:00) In 1983, a friend of Bassett said there was an opening in Berlin for a unit commander and Bassett went to Berlin in June 1983 to take the position, doing the same type of work as when he was in Munich, although now inside East Germany (01:15:38:00) o Tactically, it was not hard getting information out of East Germany, although the East Germans managed to get more intelligence out of West Germans than the West Germans got out of East Germans (01:16:51:00)  In East Germany, roughly one out of every three people were tied to the East German intelligence service (01:17:14:00)  Based on the Potsdam Agreement, American military liaisons were able to go anywhere they wanted inside East Germany; in a sense they acted as mobile intelligence collectors (01:17:38:00)  The only limitations on the movements of the liaisons were the liaisons had to stay in the open and they had to avoid Soviet and East German PRAs (Permanent Restricted Areas) and TRAs (Temporary Restricted Areas) (01:18:01:00) Re-discussion of post-Fort Huachuca experiences due to sound   Following Fort Huachuca, Bassett was a captain assigned to the 2nd Ranger Battalion in Fort Lewis, Washington then transferred to work at the Inspector General’s office at Fort Lewis (01:18:50:00) o Bassett worked in the Inspector General’s office until the Army told him he had to report to his alternative specialty, which involved going to the readiness group at Fort McCoy, Wisconsin (01:19:35:00) While at Fort McCoy, Bassett received a phone call from a man asking Bassett to travel to Washington D.C. for an interview; Bassett asked who the man worked for but was told that it was not important (01:20:14:00) �  o Bassett asked how he could contact the man after asking his commanding officer’s permission and the man told Bassett to only tell his commanding officer that it was an official request (01:20:34:00) o The commanding officer said the situation felt spooky but if Bassett wanted to do it, then the officer was not going to stop him (01:20:54:00) o A couple of days later, the man called Bassett back and Bassett said he would come to the interview; the man said that it was good and that he would call couple of days to see when Bassett goes going to be getting to Washington (01:21:05:00)  The man eventually called back again and told Bassett that when he landed at the airport in Washington, he was supposed to go to a meeting room in the airport (01:21:15:00) o Bassett followed the instructions and once in the meeting room, two men wearing civilian clothes interviewed him; once the interview was over, the men told Bassett to get into a car and after taking Bassett to lunch, the two men took him to the hotel where he would be spending the night (01:21:30:00)  At the hotel, one of the men opened his pocket, counted out money to pay for Bassett’s airfare, hotel room, and cab fare, thanked Bassett, and said they would be in touch (01:21:43:00) o Bassett received another phone call about thirty days later saying that Bassett was going to go to the Armed Forces Staff College in Norfolk, Virginia for a couple of months (01:22:14:00) A couple of days after the final phone call, Bassett’s commanding officer said Bassett was to report to the Armed Forces Staff College in January 1983 (01:22:36:00) While completing his work at the Staff College, Bassett received another phone call, saying he was going back to Washington (01:22:43:00) o Bassett did not have anywhere to live in Washington, so he ended up staying with a friend, the officer who replaced him in the 2nd Ranger Battalion and his two daughters and pets (01:22:52:00) o Bassett stayed with his friend for six weeks because he had received orders to go to Lebanon (01:23:25:00)  However, before they sent him to Lebanon, the Army wanted Bassett to go to French language school; despite his previous experiences with the language aptitude test, Bassett went to the school anyway (01:23:56:00)  The company overseeing the language school was Berlitz and their methodology for teaching was different from the methodology Bassett used when he attended the German language school (01:24:28:00)  Bassett passed the German language school by memorizing the German language whereas the Berlitz method was based on modeling the language and Bassett could not model what he could not see (01:24:30:00)  The situation with getting Bassett into Lebanon was continuously changing between he was going or he was not going, based largely around the actions of Hezbollah, specifically regarding the airport (01:24:50:00)  So long as Hezbollah kept targeting the airport, aircraft could not take off or land there (01:24:58:00) �   Bassett was stuck regarding where to live because there was no point in renting an apartment if he was not going to be living in it (01:25:09:00) o Eventually, Bassett received a message from the J-2, the senior intelligence officer, saying they appreciated Bassett’s willingness to go to Lebanon but the entire situation was too convoluted for Bassett’s sake or for anyone else and they were canceling that particular project (01:25:22:00) Bassett stayed in Washington from 1981 until 1983, when he knew there is an open assignment in Berlin (01:25:46:00) o After he was chosen for the position, Bassett and his family moved to Berlin; the job ended up being very similar to the work Bassett had done in Munich the first time he had served in (01:26:04:00) During the time Bassett was in Berlin, several methods were used in gathering intelligence; one of the methods used was debriefing both legal and illegal immigrants who traveled from East Germany into West Germany (01:26:37:00) o Sometimes the East Germans and Soviets would send sleeper agents to see what questions the West Germans and Americans and what information the latter two were interested in (01:26:55:00)  The questions the West Germans and Americans asked were intended to fill in the blank spots where the West Germans and Americans did not already know the information (01:27:06:00)  If the East Germans and Soviets sent in a sleeper agent, they could find out what the West Germans and Americans did or did not know based on the questions asked (01:27:11:00)  Other times, people from other Warsaw Pact countries would come, requesting to either defect or act as spies for the West Germans and Americans and they too went through the debriefing process, although Bassett never talked directly with them (01:27:24:00) o The West Germans and Americans also gathered intelligence using technical means, such as intercepting East German and Soviet communications and transmissions; however, although they could receive the transmissions, it was not guaranteed the West Germans and Americans could decode them (01:28:04:00) o Intelligence could also come from aerial overflights, flights that would fly over West Berlin but could see a substantial distance into East Germany, or from satellites looking down from space (01:28:19:00) o These methods were external and were largely intended to keep track of the East German and Soviet armies; the West Germans and Americans knew where the enemy’s barracks were but were more concerned about the possibility of an armored attack (01:28:49:00)  If the tanks were in the tank park, there was not too much worry but if the tanks were not, then efforts were made to find them (01:28:57:00)  Once the tanks were found, if they were in the field, that was fine because tanks generally did not drive themselves into an attack position; instead, tanks were often driven on board trucks to an attack position (01:29:05:00) �   Internal intelligence, often more of a civilian interest for policy-making or of CIA and counter-intelligence interest, was a little more difficult to gather; Bassett personally was more interested in the military side of intelligence gathering (01:29:17:00) The Potsdam Agreement towards the end of World War II allowed for the breaking of Germany into sections; because Berlin was the German capital, Berlin too was broken into sections (01:29:48:00) o Each Allied power during the war had a section assigned to them for occupation, both in Germany proper and in Berlin, with all of east Germany was given to the Soviet Union (01:30:30:00) o Because each Allied power (France, Great Britain, the Soviet Union, and the United States) had a section of responsibility, they each had the right to send their people into the other sections (01:30:51:00)  For the most part, the three Western Allied powers were only interest in the Soviet section (01:31:04:00)  The military liaison missions had the right to go into any other section any time they wanted to without needed to coordinate with the nation that controlled a specific section (01:31:09:00)  Both the Soviets and Americans would place Permanent Restricted Areas where they did not want the liaisons to go and Temporary Restricted Areas if a training exercise was going on (01:31:21:00)  The liaisons, usually two at a time, would travel around the sections in special cars that were configured to be displayed differently at night as opposed to the day (01:31:40:00)  At times, the Soviets would place Temporary Restricted Area signs then move them forward; the liaison would see the signs were not where they were supposed to be and would go into the area, giving the Soviets a reason to hold them (01:32:12:00) o On January 1st, 1983, the Soviets killed one of the liaison officers (01:32:38:00)  The Soviets had a train-load of tanks parked in an open area, so the two liaison officers went into the tanks to see if they could find any manuals or information (01:33:00:00)  In Berlin, a Soviet spy had infiltrated the American intelligence community and had knowledge of where the liaison officers would go (01:33:26:00)  The spy in Berlin told the Soviets where the liaisons were going to be, the situation rapidly deteriorated, and the Soviets ended up shooting the liaisons (01:34:02:00)  After the shooting, the commander of the American liaisons went back to the area as a form of physical protest (01:34:18:00) Bassett spent another three years working in Berlin, moving back to the United States in 1988 (01:35:33:00) �o During this time, Bassett could definitely sense that the situation within East Germany was beginning to deteriorate (01:35:57:00)  A number of different things were beginning to happen, such as food rationing, increased pollution, increased spread of disease, and the East Germans were just tired (01:36:10:00)  Germans were aware of the Solidarity movement in Poland only so far as the West told them (01:36:36:00)  The Germans only had a single German-based radio station where as the Americans could broadcast American radio stations and the British could broadcast British radio stations (01:36:40:00) o The Soviets and East Germans did not make efforts to jam the broadcast signals because it involved jamming the entire broadcast spectrum, including their own broadcasts and transmissions (01:37:18:00)  Bassett was in Berlin when President Reagan traveled there and made his famous speech (01:38:31:00)  For the large part, nobody actually made it “over the Wall” by actually going over the Berlin Wall; East German guards had orders to “shoot to kill”, there were lights, mine zones, wire, and dead zones, and someone had to cross all that if they went over the top of the wall (01:38:41:00)  Early on, people did try to go over the top of the wall because they wall was originally just wire before becoming an actual wall; as time went on, the defenses surrounding the wall became more elaborate and complex (01:39:02:00)  That being said, there were supposed openings in the wall for East German agents to get into West Berlin but for others, there was the Berlin subway (01:39:45:00) o The subway system ran from East Berlin into West Berlin and back into East Berlin (01:39:57:00) o Bassett does not recall any guards on the West Berlin side of subway; if an East German got on the subway, he could conceivable get off in West Berlin (01:40:10:00)  If a West German or American got on the subway, they were warned when it was the last stop before East Berlin, although the train kept going back into East Berlin (01:40:24:00) o The theory was that whenever the Soviets or East Germans really wanted to know what was going on in West Berlin, they would just get on the subway (01:40:44:00) o Bassett himself never took the subway because he and the other Americans were always scared to death of accidentally going into East Berlin (01:41:14:00)  Bassett knows stories of other soldiers who missed the sign at the last stop and accidentally went into East Berlin; the soldiers never left the train and just made a circuit back into West Berlin (01:41:17:00) �o If a soldier or someone else had the proper paperwork to travel to East Berlin, they could use the subway to get there legally and to see all of East Berlin (01:41:35:00)  People within the intelligence community made it their business to visit all parts of East Berlin, going as far as the border between East Berlin and East Germany (01:42:18:00) Washington D.C. / Saudi Arabia (01:42:39:00)  After leaving Berlin, Bassett next assignment was a command position at Fort Meade, Maryland (01:42:39:00) o As part of the assignment, Bassett and his men would interview willing immigrants into the United States to discuss any intelligence that would be of interest (01:43:03:00)  Bassett and his men would interview Soviet immigrants as well as Cuban immigrants; Bassett’s command had four or five offices around the country and the interviews would take place at one of those offices (01:43:44:00)  Apart from Russian Jews, who automatically got in, every other nationality had to go directly from their point of origin, such as the Soviet Union or Cuba, to the United States; they could not stop in another country before getting to the United States (01:44:07:00)  Someone was considered a legal immigrant if sending them back to their home country would cause harm or religious persecution (01:44:41:00) o Bassett had the position at Fort Meade from 1988 through 1989 (01:45:10:00)  Because of the instability surrounding the Eastern bloc at this time, there was an influx of immigrants (01:45:21:00)  All the immigrants had to be screened and at that time, the United States was very particular about which immigrants they allowed in; the United States needed to have some form of control over who was entering the country (01:45:51:00)  Eventually, Bassett received a promotion from lieutenant colonel to colonel and he was sent to work with the Army staff at the Pentagon (01:46:11:00) o In reality, Bassett had not received an official promotion; instead, he had been placed on a list for promotion but the Army wanted him in positional power regardless, so they made him a “colonel” but continued paying him as a lieutenant colonel (01:46:18:00)  Bassett and the others on the list would continue receiving pay as lieutenant colonel until Congress signed off on the list, officially making them colonels (01:46:44:00)  Each man on the list was assigned a number based on seniority and each month, only a certain number would be selected for promotion; only a certain number were chosen because the Army wanted to keep the number of colonels at a set amount (01:46:57:00)  Once the first group on the list received their promotion, then the next soldiers on the list were the next in line to receive their � promotion; the large a soldier’s number on the list was, the longer it would take to receive his promotion (01:47:12:00) o At the time Bassett worked there, the Pentagon was broken down into sections representing the major branches of the military: Army, Navy, Air Force, and the Joint Chiefs of Staff (01:47:40:00)  The Army section was further broken down into: Operations, Logistics, Intelligence etc., and within the Intelligence section, there were three different divisions: Signals Intelligence, Human Intelligence, and Imagery Intelligence (01:48:00:00) o Bassett worked in policy operations in Human Intelligence (01:48:47:00)  Apart from organizing operations, Bassett now had to deal with organizing a budget, managing resources and manpower, etc.; in a sense, the job was entirely bureaucratic (01:49:19:00) o The situation changed when Iraq invaded Kuwait; Bassett was getting tired of having to wake up early to get to work and getting home late, so he volunteered for service in Iraq (01:50:05:00)  Bassett’s commanding officer said no and told Bassett to get back to working (01:50:05:00)  Before the war actually began, Bassett received a phone call saying that a general wanted Bassett to serve in Iraq; Bassett was happy because that meant he was getting out of the Pentagon (01:51:02:00) Bassett deployed to Iraq and once the war began, he did some business work, some counter-intelligence work, helped interrogate Iraqi POWs, coordinated with the Saudi military/national guard (01:51:25:00) o The situation returning from Iraq was entirely new to Bassett; he traveled light and did not carry any civilian clothes because the Army provided everything, so when he received his orders home, Bassett boarded a flight wearing the same clothes he had been working in that morning (01:52:04:00) o The journey home took Bassett and the other soldiers on the plane to an island off of Sicily; Shannon, Ireland; and Bangor, Maine, where the flight arrived late at night and the soldiers were allowed to get off (01:52:47:00)  Because the town had long been part of the traditional route for soldiers to return home, all along the corridor leading away from the plane were men, women, and children who lived in Bangor saying “thank you” to the soldiers (01:53:17:00)  The experience was totally different from what Bassett had experienced when he came home from Vietnam, so he thanked everyone who was in the line (01:53:50:00)  At the end of the line was a group of Vietnam veterans who wanted to talk with the soldiers (01:54:06:00)  Bassett found out every time plane flew into Bangor with soldiers, the people would go out to greet the soldiers (01:54:33:00)  After leaving Bangor, the next flight took Bassett to the naval base at Norfolk, Virginia; when Bassett asked how he could get to Maryland, he was told a bus was taking soldiers to the airport (01:55:01:00) �    Bassett did not want to ride on a bus, so he went to a rental car business, rented a car and drove home, wearing the same fatigues he had left the Middle East in (01:55:20:00) o Twelve hours after Bassett returned home, he was back working in his old position at the Pentagon (01:55:38:00)  Prior to going to Saudi Arabia, Bassett returned home one day and his wife told him to call his old boss; Bassett called and his boss told Bassett to be prepared the following Monday to deploy (01:57:32:00) Bassett continued working at the Pentagon until he thought of another reason to leave the job (01:58:03:00) o During this time, the United States was attempting to implement the “peace dividend”, which involved drastically downsizing the military (01:58:12:00)  Bassett’s job during this period was finding ways to downsize different parts of the intelligence community, so he developed a way to reform the structure (01:58:32:00)  As part of the redevelopment plan, Bassett held a worldwide conference to explain to other nations’ intelligence services what the United States was going to do (01:58:44:00)  After the conference, Bassett was placed in charge of the redevelopment and was assigned to Fort Meade (01:59:03:00)  At one point, Bassett held a staff meeting for everyone in the program, roughly fifty personnel, and told them to pay attention to the method because one day, it would be done (01:59:32:00) Bassett led the redevelopment program for roughly two years, after which he was assigned to work at the DIA (Defense Intelligence Agency); the agency was also planning to restructure a few things, so Bassett was placed in charge of the operational group (01:59:57:00) o As part of his group, Bassett had some civilians from the State Department, a couple of men from the CIA, some of the men from Bassett’s redevelopment program in the Army and some personnel from the DIA (02:00:16:00) o From Bassett’s perspective, the DIA did not like how Bassett had reorganized Army intelligence because they wanted more control (02:00:28:00) Eventually, another command position opened up at Fort Meade, so Bassett took, working as commander of the Central Clearance Facility located the fort (02:01:31:00) o At that time, the facility granted validated, updated, denied, etc., all security clearances for all Army, Army Reserve, and civilian personnel (02:01:49:00)  The process of actually getting clearance was very long and drawn out to begin with because although both officers and enlisted personnel had the ability to get clearance, it required an intense amount of background checks (02:02:12:00)  Once the background checks were done, the information went to the adjudicators working under Bassett and they would examine the complete package; if it was a complete package that the adjudicator approved of, then clearance was granted and if not, the package was sent back with a request for more information (02:02:44:00) �  If more information was needed, the person was sent to the back of the line, so it sometimes took between six months and year for someone to receive their security clearance (02:03:18:00)  If it really got bad, it could take over a year-and-a-half for someone to get clearance (02:03:24:00) Eventually, Bassett got a job working with the National Guard in Michigan, with the intention of making it his retirement job (02:03:37:00) o However, in 1996, Bassett was diagnosed with prostate cancer and after having the cancer surgically removed, from 1996 to 1997, Bassett was in the “twilight zone” (02:03:50:00)  The Army could not do anything with him because he was recuperating and they did not want to discharge him because regulations required them to wait six months (02:04:21:00)  During the six months he recuperated, Bassett was taken from regular status and transferred into hospital status at Fort Knox, Kentucky (02:04:37:00) o After the six months, Bassett went to a disability board, who informed Bassett that they were going to medically retire him, which they did, in July 1997; although he was medically retired in July 1997, Bassett had a mandatory retirement day in November 1997, so everything worked out fine (02:04:47:00) Colombia / Sept. 11th / Civilian Contractor (02:05:12:00)  After the medical retirement, Bassett spent a couple of years working in civilian jobs before receiving a contract to work in Colombia (02:05:12:00) o At the time, the President and Congress were pushing forward an operation called “Plan Colombia”, where the United States would assist both the Colombian Defense Ministry and the Colombian National Police (02:05:23:00)  The two groups, although slightly connected, were relatively autonomous, competed for resources, and had different perspectives and supporters; the Colombian National Police was supported by the American DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency) because they did all the drug raids while the Defense Ministry was supposed to fight the land wars against the guerilla groups in the countryside (02:05:57:00) o The plan was for the United States to move equipment and support into Colombia to help synchronize and modernize both groups so they could better perform their jobs (02:06:30:00) o At the time, Colombia had roughly nineteen different subversive groups in the country and they all wanted the same thing, land; specifically, land to grow cocoa plants on to make cocaine (02:06:41:00) o Bassett traveled to Colombia as part of a twelve man team and they did a survey of the situation, with Bassett handling the examination of the intelligence services (02:07:38:00)  Each person in the team had a different section to exam and these included: personnel, logistics, operations, intelligence, etc. (02:07:47:00) o While in Colombia, Bassett lived in an apartment by himself and he left in March 2001 (02:08:08:00) �   o In the time that Bassett was in Colombia, the Colombians both did and did not act on the advice that they team gave them (02:08:24:00)  At different times, the Colombians did act on the advice that they Americans gave, with the Bassett’s intelligence section coming very close to making complete changes (02:08:30:00)  To the Colombians, cooperation with the team was necessary if they wanted to receive American financial support to purchase the upgrade equipment necessary to fully implement the changes (02:08:38:00)  Bassett’s specific job was coordinating how exactly the intelligence moved back and forth because prior to then, the intelligence services were parochially divided between the Defense Ministry and the National Police and there was some animosity between the two groups (02:09:05:00)  In particular, the National Police was kicked around a bit because whenever one of the subversive groups attacked, it usually targeted people in the National Police and their families and the Army was usually slow in responding with assistance (02:09:20:00)  During weekly meetings with representatives from both groups, Bassett stressed that it was the same flag that covered the coffins, regardless of which group they were in (02:09:55:00) o Bassett liked being in Colombia because the country had beautiful weather, beautiful scenery, and beautiful women (02:10:10:00) After finishing the contract in Colombia in March 2001, Bassett was home for two weeks and one day, when he was working on his lawn tractor, his wife handed him the telephone; Bassett answered and was told he needed to be in Washington in two days (02:10:44:00) o Although Bassett complained that he had just gotten home, the man said it would only be for a couple of days, no more than five (02:11:09:00) Prior to 9/11, Bassett was working at Fort Sill, Oklahoma and Fort Irwin, California as an intelligence representative during computerized war games (02:11:56:00) o Bassett went to Fort Irwin as part of the 4th Infantry Division (02:12:47:00) When the attacks on 9/11 occurred, Bassett was with a friend from Vietnam in a farmer’s meadow hunting prairie dogs with .223 rifles (02:13:18:00) o When the friend got back to the friend’s home in Dodge City, Kansas, he called Bassett and told him to turn on the television because the attacks had happened (02:13:35:00) o The attacks made Bassett’s life difficult because he had to drive from Kansas back to Fort Sill but the price of gasoline shot up and people began rationing gasoline (02:14:12:00)  Bassett had a tough time making it from Kansas back to Oklahoma, partially because of the gasoline and partially because he had pair of rifles in his car (02:14:16:00) o It took Bassett three hours to actually reach his post at Fort Sill because whenever an attack occurred, the military tended to overreact, so 19 year-old MPs were guarding the gates to the base and they acted as if they were guarding the world, so every car going into the fort was being inspected (02:14:33:00) �   Once it was finally Bassett’s turn, a young, energetic MP looked under Bassett’s floorboards, found a hunting knife, and asked if Bassett had a license to carry a hunting knife (02:15:11:00) o Once Bassett finally got into the fort, he went to work (02:15:30:00) When the United States went to war, Bassett received the phone call telling him he needed to go to Washington (02:15:42:00) o Prior to going to war, everyone involved, regardless of civilian or military, needed training and education over different subjects, such as the Geneva Conventions, marksmanship, etc. (02:15:52:00) o Bassett was called in because there was a large number of civilian contractors who were meant to rebuild Iraq but were sitting in Kuwait, waiting to receive the training (02:16:16:00)  There was a large backlog because everyone, regardless of their job or position, had to go through the training and there was only a handful of sites in the United States where someone could receive it (02:16:27:00)  For some people, they did not have to receive all the training but they still had to wait for all the other groups to finish their training, which took several days (02:17:12:00)  Bassett and another man took the full training sequence and cut it down into the sections that only a contractor would need (02:17:30:00)  After Bassett and the other man finished, their boss asked where the two men’s passports were; when Bassett said his was at home, the boos told Bassett to get it by the next day (02:17:52:00) o The following day, Bassett was on a flight out of Dulles International Airport and into Kuwait with two other men and the three men put together the presentation for the contractors on the flight (02:18:21:00)  Bassett was originally supposed to only teach three classes but did not end up leaving Kuwait for seven weeks (02:19:02:00) o Once Bassett finally left Kuwait, his company started holding classes in North Carolina (02:19:21:00) After 9/11, security across all the U.S. borders were heightened, although quantifying what “heightened” actually meant was difficult (02:20:09:00) o At the time, the U.S. Army in Europe wanted someone to look at their facilities and personnel from the position of a civilian belligerent and decipher what would a belligerent do (02:20:26:00)  Therefore, Bassett was a project manager in charge of a team that would spend three weeks on a road in a specific country, testing different groups of facilities in that country (02:20:59:00)  Prior to the test, the team would talk with the man who was in charge of the facilities and he would explain what he believed the biggest weaknesses were (02:21:21:00)  Three weeks later, the team would return and not only give their analysis of what they saw at the facilities but would also make suggestions for changes to any vulnerabilities (02:21:42:00) o The team also looked for anything they perceived as a flaw and brought attention to it (02:22:12:00) �     Normally, the first part of the three week cycle involved the team going onto the Internet to see what information they could gather from there; more often then not, the Internet was a treasure trove because people were too naïve and often placed more information than they needed to on the Internet (02:23:11:00)  It was originally supposed to be a one-year contract but the team worked so well, the Army extended the contract for another year; after the second year, Bassett got a friend to replace him and went home (02:24:56:00) As Bassett continued teaching the civilian contractors in Kuwait, roughly every three weeks, he had to fly from Detroit, Michigan to Frankfurt, Germany and into Kuwait; eventually, it reached the point that Bassett would simply fly into Iraq to teach classes in Baghdad (02:25:48:00) o During one rocket attack on his hotel, Bassett was on the same floor where the rocket impacted, only a couple of rooms down, and he watched on television as a CNN reporter discussed the destructive power of the rockets (02:26:26:00) Once Bassett finished teaching, he returned home briefly before being sent to the Congo to help assist the U.N. forces dealing with the rebel situation in Rwanda and the surrounding countries (02:27:10:00) o Bassett and his team were supposed to train personnel from all the countries to help with the flow of intelligence (02:27:30:00) o After the training, a centralized cell would stay while the other personnel would return to their countries so information could flow in and out of the central point and help coordinate with local forces (02:28:08:00) Nevertheless, the mission in Africa fell apart and Bassett returned home, was eventually diagnosed with colon cancer and finally retired (02:28:53:00) In conclusion, the average soldier in Vietnam was just a kid down the street who just wanted to do his job and go home (02:29:14:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bassett, Dennis (Interview outline and video, 2 of 2), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bassett, Dennis Description An account of the resource This interview session recaps the first part of Bassett's tour in Vietnam, and then covers the second half, when he was a brigade-level staff officer in the 9th Division. Bassett supervised long range reconnaissance patrols, organized and ran a provisional company working with experimental ground radar, and dealt with an unstable commander. He would remain the Army until 1997, working both with the Rangers and in intelligence work. He spent a total of eight years in Germany, including the period immediately before the fall of the Berlin Wall, and also went to Saudi Arabia and Iraq at the time of the Gulf War, and also worked at the Pentagon. After retiring for medical reasons, he continued to work as a civilian contractor for the military, helping the Colombian army and national police with counterinsurgency training and later working with civilian contractors sent to the Middle East at the time of the invasion of Iraq. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-04-26 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BassettD1107V2 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5070a0c5138c5cbc4be23f0d08b42b2c.mp4 9fc1754c5b6d8d50b6571c43ed53f390 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/21875262f2e23f892294e1f2bf5a7c05.pdf e188a7e51f4c2da915694e592a48d731 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Norman Batch (47:26) Pre-Enlistment • Born in 1925 (0:25) • In Muskegon, MI (0:45) • Moved to a farm in Hooblerville, MI (01:00) • Received a deferment from the service so he could work on the farm (01:45) • Got into a disagreement with his father, so he left and volunteered for the service (02:00) • Graduated high school in 1944 (02:25) • Father chopped wood for a living (02:45) • Was in 10th grade when Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor (03:45) • Went straight from high school to the service (04:00) Enlistment • Was sent to Detroit for his physical, passed and sent back home (04:30) • Told his parents he was going into the service (04:45) • Sworn in at Fort Sheridan in Chicago, IL (05:00) • Volunteered for the Air Corps, but ended up in the Army (05:20) • Was sent to Camp Craught in South Carolina for boot camp (06:00) • First day they ran a mile, then 2 miles, and did exercises (07:00) • Did mostly exercise first week, second week was running (07:20) • Had boot camp through the summer, June through September (07:50) • Half of his group went to Pacific, half went to Europe (08:40) Deployment • He was sent to Europe aboard the Queen Elizabeth (08:45) • Got a little ways out into the Atlantic, and found German subs waiting for them (09:20) • Had to change course and took them several days extra, and landed in Scotland instead of Southampton, England (09:50) • Took a train to England (10:00) • Spent 2 weeks in England, waiting to embark across the Channel (10:30) • Got on LSTs and went across the Channel (11:15) • Had to swim in to shore because the harbor was destroyed (11:30) • Slept in a red barn on top of a hill (12:15) • Headed inland by truck the next day (12:30) • First battle was in Metz, a fort city with walls around it (13:00) • Had to go house to house driving the Germans out (13:15) • A German threw a hand grenade at him and jumped out the window (14:20) • Grenade was a dud, people outside caught him (14:30) �• • Most ammunition the Germans had were duds (14:50) Moved on to Belgium (15:40) Battle of the Bulge • Moved in to Germany and the Battle of the Bulge broke out (16:00) • Had to travel 35 miles in one night to save the 101st Airborne in Bastogne (16:45) • He was in the 80th Division in the 3rd Army under General Patton (17:00) • Became trapped on a hill in the south of the city (17:25) • 200 men trapped for 5 days because all the tanks ran out of gas (17:45) • Many men killed and wounded on the hill (18:35) • Ran out of food on the 5th day and had little water (19:00) • Had the Ardennes Forest to their backs (19:15) • Heard tanks in the forest, thought it was German tanks, but it was the Americans (19:45) • Happened on Christmas Day, 1944 (20:30) • Was fighting with different divisions when he was wounded by a mortar shell, sent back to England (21:15) • Friend killed (21:20) • Wasn’t sure if the Germans captured him or the Americans found him (23:00) • Couldn’t feel his extremities at first (23:15) • Was sent back to France after he was healed (23:45) • War ended while he was in the hospital (24:10) Post War • Had to guard German POWs and make sure French soldiers didn’t harm them (25:00) • Ended up guarding SS troopers (25:30) • Got along well with French soldiers (26:50) • Was shipped to Vos, Belgium to take care of the cemetery (27:50) • Had friends buried at that cemetery (28:20) • Had to show parents where their children were buried (28:30) • Got an office job there because he could type (29:15) • Transferred to another cemetery in Holland (29:45) • Stayed with a family in Holland (30:00) • Was in Holland for 2 months (30:50) • Then sent back to France, delivering mail for a short time (31:15) • Got pneumonia from delivering mail in the cold, had to go to Charleroi to go to the hospital (32:30) • Was supposed to be shipped back home, but was in the hospital so he couldn’t go home right away (32:50) • Travelled to Scotland, England, France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Czechoslovakia, Switzerland, Germany and Holland during his time in the service (35:50) Back the United States • Travelled back to the United States by Liberty Ship (37:20) • Hit a hurricane on the way home (37:45) �• • • • • • • • • • • • Almost went overboard during the hurricane, but only lasted for 4 or 5 hours (38:50) Took 4 days to get to New York City (39:35) Was processed in Fort Dix, New Jersey (39:50) Discharged at Camp Atterbury, IN (39:55) Took a train to South Bend, then rode a bus to Grand Rapids, then took a bus to Muskegon (40:30) Parents didn’t know he was coming home that day (41:25) Didn’t want to work when he got home (41:45) Received 300 dollars for discharge (42:00) Loaded furniture for a little bit, but quit soon after because of the boss (42:30) Took a job with Dreser Industries, and retired from there in 1990 (44:15) Belongs to the VA in Grand Rapids (44:30) Gets the Division newsletter (45:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Batch, Norman (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Batch, Norman Description An account of the resource Norman Batch was born in 1925 in Muskegon, Michigan. Since he was raised on a farm, he received 6 months of deferred service, but ended up enlisting on his own. He served in the 80th Division of the 3rd Army under General Patton, and fought at Metz and in the Battle of the Bulge. After the war, he guarded German POWs and took care of cemeteries until his service was up. He came back to Grand Rapids and worked until he retired in 1990. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McCauslin, Kelly (Interviewer) Spring Lake District Library (Spring Lake, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-06-28 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BatchN Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/94cdb5d5118f87ba4aadbe5885c5ddee.pdf c3bd11a011330ef5066f84ba1a7cc766 PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-45_CW1-4390 Title A name given to the resource Letter from Edward Bates Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bates, Edward, 1793-1869 Subject The topic of the resource United States--Politics and government--19th century United States--Officials and employees Bates, Edward, 1793-1869 Description An account of the resource Note from Edward Bates, US Attorney General under Abraham Lincoln from 1861 to 1864. "Sir, Coming home, after an absence of six weeks, I find your letter of July 11. It is dated only at "Hartford" the poststamp, as usual, is illegible, so I direct this acknowledgement to Hartford of Connecticut, as the best city of the name that I know of." Respectfully, Edward Bates Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Civil War and slavery collection (RHC-45): http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/359e1ba45bfe1360b2647355b7d70c3b.mp4 f7650b5cce9c01c781ce03a7b39da484 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/340fd0fd0e859d7b42719310c8495839.pdf 0e4621506b30c8b572be77996b1917fd PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Jonathan Richard Bates (00:30:04) (0:34) Background of Army career • Joined in 1983 when in college o Wanted to serve country o Other family members had served o Wanted to learn new stills o Money for college • Part of the Michigan National Guard (1:41) Job assignment in Iraq • Army Advisor with the Iraqi Army from 2004-2005 • Saw combat (2:14) Most memorable moment • Spent a year in Iraq • Imbedded with the Iraqi Army as their American Liaison • In 15 missions with them and over 200 patrols (3:40) Casualties • In Bates’ company of 60-plus men, 2 killed and 17 wounded o Those injured/killed were from rocket or mortar attacks and sniper fire when on patrols o Bates is proud because compared to other companies, his did not lose many men (4:40) Provisions • At the American base, plenty of provisions • When with the Iraqi Army would get food from markets, locals, street, the army itself o Ate spam, bread, goat brains, pigeon, etc. (6:10) Free time • Used laptop or iPod • Get to know Iraqi soldiers; became great friends o Talked about family, friends, politics, religion o Danced, sang o Shared culture o Practiced for combat- first aid training and basic land navigation • Usually not a lot of free time because a lot was going on in the area • Still in touch with a lot of Iraqi friends by email (8:40) Holidays • Bates was in Kuwait during Thanksgiving; just ate Thanksgiving dinner in the mess hall and then went back to his tent • Spent Christmas in Iraq where he played dominos • Celebrated a lot of Iraqi holidays �(10:17) Skills learned • Language – learned a bit of Arabic • Tolerance o Their democracy won’t be the same as US democracy because we are two different cultures o There are a lot of parallels between there struggle for freedom and our struggle for freedom from Britain o Rich in history, tradition, and wonderful people (12:37) Outside of the military • Teaches elementary school • Musician • A dad (13:27) Lessons learned • Tolerance • More worldly • Time in military made him more aware of the things going on in the world • Only 2% of the US population serves in the military; wishes more would serve (14:59) Bates’ absence and the impact on his family • Family had a great support system o The church was instrumental as was the school • Bates was gone for 12 months (17:42) Homecoming • Awesome to get home • Very difficult to leave Iraq because formed like a “Band of Brothers” with the Iraqi soldiers • Celebration at the airport; lots of family and friends as well as a few television stations (21:55) Going to Iraq • Just started teaching PE • Got a phone call that said, “You’re going to the sandbox.” • Went with the 98th Division of NY • Had one month to prepare which was longer than most soldiers get • The elementary school he was teaching at was wonderful o Told he could have his job back when he returned and that they would take care of his family in his absence o Allowed Bates time off before he left and also when he got back o Threw a big celebration for him upon his return (24:20) Training for the Army • Was a college music major and joined the National Guard Band o Also trained in combat • In college joined the ROTC program to be an officer; wanted to be a pilot but that didn’t work out so went to band and then became a drill sergeant o Trained in infantry o Went to various schools like NBC (Nuclear Biological Chemical), etc. • Bates is a professional soldier �(26:10) Life now • Still in the Army • In back of mind, worries will be sent back to Iraq • Feels Iraq is a worthy cause and is willing to die for it • The US has done good things in Iraq; got rid of Saddam Hussein just as the WWII generation got rid of Hitler o Iraqis say that Saddam Hussein was worse than Hitler • Wishes people would not call the war pointless or stupid because the men and women serving this country are sacrificing so much � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bates, Jonathan Richard (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bates, Jonathan Richard Description An account of the resource Jonathan Richard Bates is a Veteran of the Iraq War and has been serving in the United States Army since 1983. In this interview, Bates discusses his recent tour of duty in Iraq. As an Army Advisor for the Iraqi Army, Bates has unique insight into the Iraqi culture and people. With the Iraqi Army Bates went on 15 missions and over 200 patrols. His story is one that shows although Iraq and the United States are two different cultures, each has a rich history that often parallels the other, such as the fight for democracy. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Page, Ashley (Interviewer) Forest Hills Eastern High School (Ada, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-06-04 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BatesJ Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/af89307a604771dd609f63d11cae2741.jpg 8014ea627f1c37ab61b041dcf7024d37 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-Oxbow-02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Battles, Bob Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Title A name given to the resource Oxbow Summer 1966 Description An account of the resource A black and white photo of the theater group, the Oxbows, from Wayne State University. There are ten individuals depicted, all in various costumes. One holds a baby. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Ox-Bow School of Art and Artists' Residency Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file collected by the Kutsche Office of Local History from the Saugatuck Douglas History Center for the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b8db6b0f3dfd26fd42de6c6038493c55.jpg 04d56219ad2b5024676d42fb0f71b9a0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-Oxbow-03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Battles, Bob Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1966 Title A name given to the resource Oxbow Summer 1966, Back Description An account of the resource The back side of "Oxbow Summer 1966." It lists all of the names from right to left of the individuals depicted in the phot and descriptions of them, all written in blue pen. In the bottom right, Oxbow 1966 Summer is written in red pen. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Ox-Bow School of Art and Artists' Residency Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file collected by the Kutsche Office of Local History from the Saugatuck Douglas History Center for the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d81e441dbfe6a32cd6610051d520c7fc.jpg 2e58e04348029ff1957a0752b860993b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-Oxbow-04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Battles, Bob Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010 Title A name given to the resource A Place Called Ox-Bow Description An account of the resource A brochure for the Saugatuck-Douglas Museum 2010 Exhibition, "A Place Called Ox-Bow." The brochure describes the exhibit and also gives the location, admission cost and dates of the exhibition. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Ox-Bow School of Art and Artists' Residency Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file collected by the Kutsche Office of Local History from the Saugatuck Douglas History Center for the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/250e66357647747abdeaa637b9c08594.jpg 1d855ace82e0b11018614e94df8b0ad3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-Oxbow-05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Battles, Bob Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010 Title A name given to the resource Ox-Bow in '60s Meeting Topic Description An account of the resource A scan of a newspaper article written about the Saugatuck-Douglas Historical Societey Tuesday Talk that was put on to provide "[a]n intimate look Ox-Bow during the mid-1960s and '70s." Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Ox-Bow School of Art and Artists' Residency Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file collected by the Kutsche Office of Local History from the Saugatuck Douglas History Center for the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/059760ee99a42baffeabc818a4939181.pdf b006545c15c6a996793b83b2872d77fe PDF Text Text + . . . . , ." " , . . . . • I' \ • Prof. Baum & Prof. deYoung "Conflict and Cooperation in Society" HP 231 Fall, 1988 THE HOLOCAUST AND THE SOCIAL SCIENCES Books required for the course: Eli Wiesel, Night Leon Poliakov, Harvest of Hate Philip Hallie, Lest Innocent Blood Be Shed Joel Dimsdale, survivors, Victims and Perpetrators (Syllabus written by William Baum, July 1988.) Because this course is so unusual, some comments are called for at the beginning. This course came about as a result of work begun several years ago by a committee working to develop a high quality and highly interdisciplinary course in the social sciences. We hereby acknowledge our gratitude to Dean Tony Travis for his moral and financial support of this endeavor. Professor Baum originally assumed the task of organizing the course and continues to do so. In the three years that this course has been offered, he has been helped in many ways by many people. Above all, special gratitude is expressed to Professors Joanisse and deYoung and the guests who serve as witness to the Holocaust and suffer unbelievable memories and pain in doing so. These guests, colleagues and a growing literature remind us that all social phenomena is lived and interpreted at the 'level of daily life.' The ability to generalize is a hallmark of any science, and it is possible to make some �I I valid generalizations about human behavior during the Holocaust. However, we must guard against excessive generalization. As the works of Allen, Henry, Levi, Peukert ana the many diaries cited below indicate so clearly, every life has its own story to tell and the story is almost always one of the fragility and malleability of most every human and most every human situation. He [man] has the capacity to veer with every wind, or, stubbornly, to insert himself into some fantastically elaborated and irrational social institution only to perish with it. [For man] is a fickle, erratic, dangerous creature [whose] restless mind would try all paths, all horrors, all betrayals ... believe all things and believe nothing ... kill for shadowy ideas more ferociously than other creatures kill for food, then, in a generation or less, forget what bloody dream had so oppressed him. Loren Eiseley The subject matter of this course deserves special comment. The committee established in 1985 to develop a high quality interdisciplinary course in the social sciences needed a good case study in order to hold it together. Inevitably (at least it now seems so), we came to focus on the Holocast - the systematic murder of European Jews and certain other groups by the Nazis during World War II. As horrible as this catastroph is to study and contemplate, it does provide an excellent opportunity to consider human behavior in a wide range of contexts. We are forced to �confront the following basic set of questions . How could the people of Germany - the nation of Bach and Kant - become deeply involved in the extermination of some 6 million Jews and Gypsi e s ( and others) whose alleged crime was that they belonged to an "inferior r a ce"? How could Germans beat and kick old women , even young children and babies and then gas them before throwing them into the large ovens of the infamous death camps? How could the "Nazi doctors'' deliberately break the bones of little children so that they could "study'' the healing process? confront the question: In short, we must how and why could humans do these things to other humans? If you are thinking as you read this that only very sick humans are capable of doing these things and that everyone involved in the killing process was psychopathic, you will confront some shocking evidence in this course. A great deal of evidence in the social sciences points to the fact that many or most of us would have been obedient Nazis if we had been there. One of the goals of the course is for you to learn how the structure and organization of modern bureaucracy and certain other groups can "assist'' in the process of human destruction. We will also see the enormous role in this process played by such normal human behavior as denial, repression and "distancing". Another goal of the course is to stimulate an examination of ones' ownself. I think that it is virtually impossible to go through this course and not ask serious �que ::tio ns about who you are and what you are and what your ancestors have passed on to you in the way of religious bel:efs - including prejudice and hatred. ___ ......... ,_ _,\,,; .... "'-"'-' - ,. are wondering, I am not Jewish. ~ Nor am I (And I don't know enough to be an atheist). Chri . tiarJ . I am merel 1 an American, of German-Irish ancestry, who is both curio .~s and troubled by what humans can do to other humans. (B y the way Professor De young is almost none of the above). Ano· her very important goal of this course may be desc r 1b ~ i as the hope that it may make you a more responsible citizen. What happened in Germany was due, in part, to the fa ct t ha ~ not very many Germans did anything to oppose the Nazis . Even though we tend to think of Hitler as a crazed dem on , there is much evidence that suggests that Nazi programs would have been abandoned or modified if Hitler had recei v e d mo re public opposition. Indeed, the so-called Euthanasia program - actually mass murder of persons p] ·,y c. :,- ,:,} }y o r mentally disabled - which began in 1939 was rn o di fl ~d when public reaction reached a high level by 1941. Altho ~ gh we haven't had any Holocaust in this country, we hav e many unsavory chapters in our history, including the system st ic slavery of Blacks, the long standing mistreatment of Na :. i '!e Americans and the widespread prejudice toward Hispa n ic and Asian Americans (to name but some of the p)t"mnl pc::) - . Moc ~ of the examples of human destruction of other humans (herewith defining destruction to include enslaving and the denial of full legal rights) involves a �racial component. Social scientists have come to recognize identifiable steps in a process from mere prejudice (I say "mere'' because I accept the premise that prejudicd cannot be eliminated) to legal discrimination, to segregation, to isolation, to concentration and subsequent destruction. Details will vary, but there is recognizable process, whether in Nazi Germanyor contemporary America. Recent outbreaks ofhostility against Blacks and Asians on American campuses should be a clear warning to us all. We must never forget that there is more to education than merely acquiring knowledge. Knowledge by and of itself is not enough. Haim Ginott's challenge states it eloquently: On the first day in the new school year all the teachers in one private school received the following note from the principal: Dear Teachers: I am a survivor of a concentration camp. saw what no man should witness: My eyes Gas chambers built by learned engineers. Children poisoned by educated physicians. Infants killed by trained nurses. Women and babies shot and burned by high school and college graduates. So, I am suspicious of education. Hy request is that teachers help students become human. Your efforts must never produce learned monsters, skilled psychopaths, educated Eichmanns. Reading, writing, arithmetic are important only if they serve to make our children more humane. It is trying on us all to have such a grim subject matter. One can only hope that we learn and gain an understanding of the processes involved in human destruction. �These proceses, furtherm ore , are not unique to the Nazi Holocaust. It is estimated that in 1914, Turks killed or deported to the desert 2/3 of the estimated 1,800,000 : ~.:.: :~. ,.;:: •. i..:! li s o f th e Ottoman Empire. During the early 1930' s, Stalin embarked on a policy to totally collectivize Soviet peasa n t holdings. Moving against the peasants as a class which must collectivize, become urban workers or be e x term i nated , it is estimated that 15 to 22 million Russian peasants were killed through intentional mass starvation and other means. ( In Marxist literature, belonging to a "wrong" class is tantamount to being a member of an inferior race). Instances of genocide in Asia seem far worse still! In such a morbid contest, any relief is most welcome. The course is titled "conflict and cooperation" and we will deal with genuine instances of compassion and heroism ("cooperation" is hardly adequate here). In October we will consider the case of the French village - Le Chambon sur J.i g . . .,..., :'. - r1;"'r:1 h ow goodness happened there. courag~, t~~ villagers saved as many as thousands of Jewish children and adults from certain death. With great A witness to acts of courage in saving Jews will join us in October. Finally, we come to the principle of "lest we forget". Many echc· the words of Karl Jaspers who wrote of the Holocaust : it is guilt. "That which has happened is a warning. It must be continually remembered. To forget It was possible for this to happen, and it remains possible for it to happen again . .. Only in knowledge can it be prevented." �I d o n ot share Jasper's implied optimism because people caught up in a chain of events seldom comprehend what is going on. For example, many Germans who profited from the closing of Jewish businesses and the expulsion of Jews from the professions in the l930's would have nevertheless insisted that they didn ' t want any killing going on. They would have b een shocked beyond belief if anyone had pointed out to them what would follow within a few years. As we shall see throughout this course, humans are frequently caught up in a series of events that are really out of control - only they don't realize it at the time. But it is important to honor the spirit of Jaspers and recognize the danger signs which indicate when a nation, or culture, has become sick and is on the road to destruciton . A primary objective of this course is to indicate what these danger signs look like in real life. Grading Policies 1) Due to the unique nature of this course, including special guests and films, attendance is required. A bonus will be awarded to those who miss class no more than one time . 2) A term paper of approximately 15 to 18 pages is required. The term paper will be worth approximately 1/3 of your grade. {See the section following this for more information about the term paper). 3) A final exam will count for approximately 1/3 of your �grade. The remainder of your grade is to be made up of an early exam and a daily journal. In a course like this, a so-called "objective'' exam is a poor measuring device. One can name dates and names but fail to understand the Holocaust. We do acknowledge that there are "levels'' or degrees of understanding that tend to accumulate and can be assessed in a diary or journal. From time to time in the smaller discussion sections, we will exchange and discuss our insights. The journal is to be handed in near the end of the course. 4) There is a Holocaust Memorial Center in West Bloomfield, Michigan which you may want to visit. hours will be announced). go there. (The fall visiting I strongly recommend that you You should reserve two hours for the visit. Go slowly and soak it up. It is an impressive museum! From Grand Rapids take I-96 east to I-696. Exit at Telegraph Road and go north to Maple Road. Turn left on Maple Road and head west to Drake Road (past Orchard Lake Read and Farmington Road) . of Maple and Drake, 6602 w. The museum is at the corner Maple. earned by visiting the museum. Extra credit can be The museum also has a library which you may want to use in connection with your term paper. there . They have many rare and very special books Before going there you are advised to call the center at (313) 661-0840 for information. You may also earn additional credit by seeing an important movie/documentary like Shoah . Please comment on �such special events in your journal. The Term Paper Each student is expected to write a term paper. The term paper is to be written after consultation with the appropriate faculty member before the Thanksgiving break. The professors will select the best term papers from each section and invite the students to present them to the larger group late in the semester . Last fall we learned that writing a good term paper is one thing, while writing a good term paper in social science is quite another . the ss. For example, one student wrote a paper on The paper was well-written, reflected careful research and told a great deal about the origin and evolution of the ss. But it wasn't a good social science term paper because it told us little about human behavior. It would have been both important and interesting to know the class origins of SS recruits, personality traits of the recruits, what the training program was designed to accomplish - and how it altered behavior. It also would have been important to study the organization of the ss and show how the organization affected the behavior of its members. The significance of these points is clarified when one considers the evidence which suggests that ss members came from "normal" backgrounds and led "normal" lives after the war . Yet, they were active participants in the murder of millions of people over several years. A good paper would account for �how the behavior of these men was altered so significantly in sucl a short period of time. What makes Robert Lifton' s book on ~he Nazi doctors so interesting and potentially important ~~t~mpt to explain the phenomenon of "biological . '- solt eril ~••, or how these Nazi doctors could come to regard kill~~g as healing. ?he student who authored the paper mentioned above received an "A" because it was a good paper. That it wasn't a goods cial science term paper was due, in part, to the tender .1e of the writer and to the difficulty in cornrnunica~ing to and undergraduate the necessary information involvei. It is our hope that we will do a better job this time around. One of our major tasks as instructors is to communicate what good social science looks like. This task is not made easier by the fact that so much that is passed off aE social science is no more than bilge. (See attached bibliography for examples of good social science). �I PART ONE - WHAT HAPPENED The Nazi Program for the destruction of the Jews of Europe As we begin this course, we will focus on what happened in the incredible years between 1933-1945. Even so, it will be necessary to bring in some historical materials, particularly on the long-standing anti-Semitism in Europe. But we will primarily use Poliakov's Harvest of Hate which deals mainly with the "Hitler years". Wednesday, August 31 Distribution of syllabi and discussion of course content, assignments and grading. Friday, Sept. 2 Professor Baum will comment on some of the problems connected with teaching a course on the Holocaust. Monday, Sept. 5 We will not meet due to the Labor Day recess . But this is the weekend to really get your head into this course. Carefully read Elie Wiesel's Night before September 7. As impossible as it may seem, we will have a guest on Wednesday who was in Auschwitz at the very same time as Wiesel and has a very similar story to tell. �Wednesday, Sept. 2 Today we will have a very special guest with us, Grand Rapids businessman, David Mandel. In recent years Mr. Mandel has •'.:'(··-2 :-..·=- ·1 -= 0 1.t~ly de·:ided to tell his painful story - lest we forge t. · Friday, Sept. 9 Why the Jew? The Holocaust is inconceivable unless "the Jew'' is widely and deeply seen as something less than human. Professor Gilbert Davis will be our guest speaker today and will outline some of the major chapters of this long story. By the way, Profess o r Davis has taught a course on the Holocaust . Monday, Sept . 12 Professor Davis will join us again. Today he will focus on the bitter anti-Semitism in Germany and Austria just prior to Wo rld War I. cb sE s s e d \-li It was in this environment that Hitler became th "The Jew" Wednesday, Sept. 14 The Hol o caust is also inconceivable without the "takeover" of Germany by Adolf Hitler. Today we will see few minutes of a documentary film clip so that you may get an idea of how ~rr~ ~L iv~ Hiller was as an orator. After the brief film, Professor Baum will compare a well-known historical treatment or ttitier witn a more recent "psychohistory" and indicate some problems with interpreting Hitler. �Friday, Sept. 16 The class will meet in separate discussion sections. By now your head (and your journal) must be teeming with questions and thoughts. The discussion groups will focus on one or more of the following: 1) questions or comments you may have about the course to this point; 2) sharing journal entries; 3) the first 30 pages of Poliakov. Here we can "connect" Hitler, the Nazis and the German people as they move against the Jews. Monday, Sept. 19 Read "Persecution Unleashed'' in Poliakov (and review chapter one). We will focus on two matters today: 1) The author discusses the development of ''sacral" and "profane" laws in the Nazi system. What was their nature and function? Why, for instance, did sacral laws extend to the Netherlands but not to France? 2) Even at this early part of the story, it is clear that the predicament of the Jews varied greatly from country to country. What are some of the major factors which account for this variation? Be prepared for class discussion. Wednesday, Sept. 21 Read chapters 3,4, & 5 of Poliakov. Today Professor Baum will discuss the debate among historians and social scientists regarding the start of the Holocaust. Was the extermination of the European Jews the result of long-range �·~ planning (traceab l e t o Mei n Kampf) or did the Nazis "stumble" into it when other measures to rid central Europe of Jews failed? Friday, Sept. 23 The phenomen o n of Hitler involved strong and widespread support among the German people. Professor Baum will explore the "tie" between Hitler and the German people and indicate the socio-economic nature of his most active followers. Monday, Sept. 26 We will have a very special guest with us today . Professor Geoffrey Cocks of Albion College is the author of a widely praised book: Institute. Psychotherapy in the Third Reich - The Goering Professor Cocks will explore how one group of professionals survived the turbulent years of Nazi Germany. This presentation should be of special interest to those of you entering the fields of medicine. Furthermore, as our guest explores his thesis, you can learn something about how to organize a term paper. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Sept. 28, 29 and 30 These dates are reserved for discussions of the term papers with the appropriate professor. sheets. Sign up on the schedule Two may sign up for each time slot (there is something to be learned by seeing what others are doing and the troubles they are dealing with). We are using class time to insure that everyone will be able to schedule a meeting. �Please bring with you a topic title, a paragraph statement of a hypoth esis o r thesis, and a bibliography of no fewer than five items. Monday, You may also bring a towel to cry on. Oct. ~ Read chapters 6 and 7 Poliakov. Among the questions raised are how men praised for their "honesty" and "gentleness of character" could kill women, children and babies. Baum will discuss how the Professor ss transformed "ordinary" men into killers of enemy soldiers and countless civilians. Wednesday , Oct. 5 More on the ss. Professor Baum will explore, among other things, the argument that the ss was "the alibi of Nazi Germany." Friday, Oct. 7 Read chapter eight of Harvest of Hate - "The Industry of Death". Hitler's program of euthanasia began in September, 1139 and was toned down in August, 1941, due to public pressure. Hitler apparently had 70,273 "feeble-minded" and "incurably insane" exterminated because they wer useless to the state. Furthermore, it gave certain scientists and medical people a chance to "perfect" ways of exterminating large numbers of people. If the German people wee sick and horrified over the extermination of their own "feeble-minded", doesn't this vividly underscore the perception of Jews held by many - if �not most - Germans? The Germans apparently regarded the feel le-minded as humans, but not the Jews. What did Ameican sole .iers in "Nam" call the enemy soldiers? Is the killing ~~~ ,, L~~~~m~nt of other humans only possible after a proc •ss c: self-delusioh - even collective self-delusion has tiken place? Haven't many of the worst crimes in human hist.c :·y been committed by people who first robbed their victim~ of their humanity? After this, isn't everything else "easy"? Note throughout the chapter the many instances of delusio: and dehumanization, and how it even affected the prisoners . One question keeps coming back as I write this syllabus: Why did P.ir.\i11ler and his fellow merchants in death find it possible to build their concrete and steel monuments to death and y ·- t never submit their "final solution" to paper? We will discuss these and related questions today. Read cbapter nine, "The Jewish Reisitance". This chapter raises some interesting questions about Jewish resistance, including ghetto uprising and the partisans. Professor Baum will survEy the debate that has been going on for decades regard~ng the nature and degree of Jewish resistance to ·the Nazis. llt::u..tH=-">uay, 01.,: L. 12 Finish the book, Harvest of Hate. We need to consider several matters as we conclude this �portion of the cour se. 1) Why would anyone exterminate a group of people when one could enslave them. 2) Does the author's account of Himmler make any sense to you? Do you have any understanding of the man? Is Himmler simply a case study of a man who might have carried out 'more rational exploitation' but for the circum st ances - in this Eichmann's opposition as well as the Grand Mufti's desire to see all Jews exterminated? 3) Also very disturbing is the matter of the attitude towards the Jews in countries at war with Germany. Did anti- semitism world-wide really contribute to the 'final solutions'? 1943? Did Goebbles speak the truth on this in May, (p. 262). 4) Finally, we confront one of the most disturbing issues of all: the historic contributions of Christianity to anti- semitism and the Holocaust. We will specifically consider the statements of Thomas Acquinas and Martin Luther concerning the Jews. Is the long history of Christian hatred of the Jews based on a misunderstanding? Does it matter that Jesus was a Jew - or that Jews allegedly killed Jesus? Why are the Gospels so ambiguious concerning the death of Jesus? (In Mark 15 : 15 and Matthew 27:26, "Pilate delivered Jesus to be crucified; in Luke 23:24, Pilate "decided that their (the �Jews) demand should be granted," in John 19:16, we are told that Pilate "handed him over to them (the Jews) to be cruicif ied. John 19:23 says that Roman soldiers carried out the cruci fixion . One cannot a void thinking about this long history of anti - Semitism in psychological terms: perhaps the Chris t ia ns used the Jews as a convienient symbol by which Christianity is measured. Christian rites and rituals became the s~cred, Jewish rites and rituals represent the profane. In-group solidarity is enhanced by having an out-group devil. It is n ~t surprising, in my opinion, that massacres of Jews can be found at many points of western history. Once again, doesn't this follow when one group considers another subhuman? In other words, anti-Semitism is not strictly or exclusively a religi o us phenomenon, but is a phenomenon of group beha v ior. In the rise of Christianity, the Jews were a con v enient foil: they had a different Sabbath, circurnsized males and d : essed differently . Moreover, the separation of the Christian from the Jew clarified the identity of those who refuse to accept Christianity. With the rise of the modern nationstate and the decline of religious belief, "blood" or " race" replaced belief or piousness as a sign of W~8 ~a: ma~kcd for salvation or condemned to death . In November, 1938, Goering acknowledged the importance of ..... c u ........ '::I ':l:,c:: 1..1..v.::, ~,. created," he said. all cities. "They will have to be In either case, the Jews were a convenient scapegoat. It should be noted that France went �through a crisis in the 1890's which involved nationalism and anti-Semitism. Some of the patterns there were repeated in Nazi Germany. Members o f the class may wish to consult a recent work by David A. Rausch,~ Legacy of Hatred: Forget the Holocaust. Why Christians Must Not Rausch examines the long history of Christian intolerance of the Jews. perhaps, is Martin Luther's role: Most disturbing of all, he asked, "What shall we Christians do with the rejected and condemned people the Jews? I shall give you my sincere advice. First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord ... Second, I advise that houses all be razed and destroyed .. Fourth, I advise that rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb . . . Fifth, I advise that safe - conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews ... " Small wonder that Julius Streicher, a Hitler propagandist, would cite Luther in his defense of his actions at his Nuremberg trial . In his last years, Luther gave up on the Jews because they failed to convert to Christianity. What do you think of his comment that if he had been a Jew, he certainly wold have converted! �Friday, Oct. 14 --- Mid-term Exam. Monday, Oct. 17 --- Our 11 two weeks of sunshine." The story of the Holocaust is not entirely a story of horror and atrocity. Almost, but not quite. In this section of the course, we are going to read about and discuss the story of the Protestant village in southern France, LeChambon, where a modern miracle took pklace during WWII. Notice: The class will meet on October 17 and 19 in separate discussion section. Read Prelude and Parts I and II of Lest Innocent Blood Be Shed. Here we confront the author of the book and the central characters, Pastor Andre and MAgda Trocme. Have you ever experience what the author described as 'going through him like a spear' when he read about the village of LeChambon-sur-Lignon, and their act of moral nobility? As for the remarkable Pastor Trocme, your authoridentifies certain events in his life as shaping his character. How do you assess these events - or do you think that Trocme would have done as he did simply because that was the kind of man he was? Why did Vichy France tolerate so much insubordination from �the Chambonnais and Trocme? Shouldn't they have shot him? Does the evidence of warning and other help for the Jews from the Police show how difficult it is for totalitarian regimes to really be totalitarian? Magda Trocrne found it difficult to lie even thoughit was necessary to do so in order to obtain the counterfeit cards to save people's lives. moral codes? Is it sometimes necessary to breach Under what circumstances and why? In a different vein, why did the Chambonnais both admit to the authorities that they harbored Jews but lied about many things associated with this at the same time? Wednesday, Oct. 19 Remember: we will meet in separate discussion sections. Read parts III and IV of Hallie. One of the most important themes in the book is the nonviolent philosophy of Andre Trocme and the Chambonnais. The author claims that nonviolence was crucial if the village was to resist the Nazis and avoid a massacre. The theory of nonviolent resitance was practiced and made famous by the late leader of India, M. Gandhi. It has been said that Gandhi could only have gotten away with this because the British were so civilized. Was this true? about the Nazis? Inasmuch as this is a course in the social sciences, the What �sub:ect at hand is most relevant - besides being interesting. Gan ' h : pe r c eived that non-violent behavior of resistance wou ~d f o rce the armed adversary to re-consider and then alter his )wn ~ehavior. Did this happen in Le Chambon? King was here in April, 1986, she spoke of an incic -n t during the l960's civil rights movement when Police Ch ief Eul l Conners, his men armed with fire hoses and dogs co n £r o nt : d unarmed, but resolute civil right marchers. mar ch E~ were ordered to halt, but they didn't. mo ve d ah ~- d. The Instead, they Suddenly, the situation dramatically changed, the p o lice and dogs acted as though paralyzed, while the march e rs advanced. How can this be explained? By the way, n o n- vio lent resistance would be a very good term paper topic. As we leave Le Chambon, aren't you moved by the work of the Troc me's and the villagers? Does this case study demonstrate what a strong-willed, respected, man and wife can do to inf l ue~ c e the moral climate of a community? Weren't the Chamb o nnais practically intimidated into having to do good by the v ery p r esence of Andre? Meanwhile, only a few hundred miles away, Germans were intimidated by force and threats of force t o help identify and round up Jews in the process of their ~ :::: st:-'.l::tion. Do these events suggest to you anything abou t the relative strength of social forces for good and There are many things in these chapters to think about, but �two standout to me in a course about the Holocaust: perhaps more than anything else, the tragic death of his sons, JeanPierre and Daniel caused Andre Trocme to questions the meaning of life. Are only the very young potentially free of the burden of seeing life as a dark, useless hole in a pointless world? thoughts. Andre Trocme had to do battle with these Yet, he went on to work for world peace for the rest of his life. Compare this with the passage in Night when Wiesel speaks of the nocturnal silence "which deprived me, for all eternity, of the desire to live." As we are about to meet people who did as the Chambonnais did, we might ask what is there about Andre and Magda Torcme that prompted them to do what they did? the same? Would we have done How could we know? Friday, Oct. 21 Today Professor Baum will discuss recent research in the social science literature which attempts to understand and explain why it is some people will risk life, limb, and all their possessions in order to shelter and save total strangers. Monday, Oct. 24 --- The "Dutch Holocaust" Many people in west Michigan are of Dutch descent. It isn't surprising therefore that some of these people were involved in the Holocaust in some way. With a Jewish population of approximately 140,000-150,000 and a special relationship to �the Nazis, Netherlands have bitter memories of the Holocaust. Except for Norway, the Netherlands was occupied by the Germans for a longer period of time than any other country. The special relationship includes the relative small size and terrain which made the country easy to dominate. Most important was the special tratment accorded the Dutch. Goering complained: "The dutch are unique as the nation of traitors to our cause." The Nazis had great hopes for the dutch to go along with them because of "racial similarities," but the Dutch resistance prompted retaliation. In April, 1941, Hitler ordered the deportation of all Jews to the Government General, with some exceptions. As a result, approximately 110,000 Dutch Jews - 80% of the total Dutch Jewish population was deported for extermination. This was the highest rate in western Europe. It is estimated that 20,00 Jews were "hiding out" in the N~th~~:ands - half of whom were discovered and presumably ~xL~rm~nct~E~. During part of this course, we will have special g~ests who will tell us about their own personal experience during WWII in the Netherlands. out guest today is Mandy Evans, who was a Jewish girl who spent years hiding from the Nazis. Her ordeal wasn't helped by the fact of 100,000 Nazi collaborators in the Netherlands. As she told me, "I think about it every day." Note: For those interested, there is a folder marked "Holocaust-Netherlands" available at the circulation desk �unde r Closed Reserve. Wednesday, Oct. 26 --- Today our special guest wil be Rev. John Timmer. He was a boy during the German occupation of the Netherlands and he remembers what his family did to save Jews during this terrible period. �II PART I I - HOW IT COULD HAPPEN Up to this point, we have emphasized what happened during the final years of the Third Reich when 6 million Jews were murdered. The enormity of this crime of genocide is so horrible that it causes a certain degree of disbelief even today. How could one man - a "madman" at that - gain so much power over so many? Why didn't the German people understand what he was doing and stop him? How could doctors and scientists become involved in the extermination of millions? How can anyone function and continue to have a life that is anything but a nightmare? Why was there widespead disbelief as survivors of death camps went out to tell their stories of what was going on? These and hundreds of other questions rush to mind. Answers to these questions have been offered, by many, incl~ding novelists, playwrights, survivors, participants, such as Albert Speer, filmmakers, poets, painters and an almost endless list of sources. To cite but one example, George Orwell warned us in many of his writing of the dangers of the abuse and debasement of language by government officials. This was certainly the case in Nazi Germany where leaders coined deceptive phrases like "final solution" and the "Jewish question" to hide their plan from everyone including themselves. But there was much more to it than language abuse; may victims didn't believe it could happen �(even when they had been warned with evidence), some Nazi officials could apparently convince themselve and the tribunal at Nuremberg that they didn't know Jews were being exterminated. It is in this general area that the social sciences have somethin g to contribute to our understanding of the Holocaust. There is a fairly extensive literature in social psychology which deals with the mechanics of repression and self-delusion. Sometimes it was quite unsubtle: SS troops would get drunk before shooting their many victims. was often far more complicated. But it How could sober, highly- educated bureaucrats keep themselves deluded for years? The first essay in the Dimsdale book by Raul Hilberg will help us with this matter. Likewise, a literature in sociology, public administration, and political science stemming from Max Weber will help us understand bureaucratic behavior and how a functionary working on train schedules from Berlin to Auschwitz would be able to see himself as a professional scheduler rather than as an agent of death. There were many similar examples. This doesn't mean that the Holocaust is something we will ever completely understand. comprehension. It may be beyond Furthermore, as Freud reminded us, human behavior is certainly irrational at times. Our unconscious mind is not completely - or even greatly - understood by our consciousness. This condemns even our conscious, scientific �sel · ·es to have less than full understanding of our social bei1 g. Or so it seems to the writer of this syllabus. In any case, the Holoca u st is a g oo d test for the social ~ri~~ r ~ i n ~s~uch as many of the questions raised about this even · ar~ of major concern to social scientists. JU~9 t You may ior yourself just how well social scientists deal with the se q ue stions as we now turn to what social science may be able tc c ontribu te to our understanding of the Holocaust. Friday, Jct. 28 Ass i gn me1 t: We shall begin this section with Survivors, Victi~s and Perpetrators. Read Raul Hilberg's essay: Nat ur e of the Process" top. 35. scient i st at the university of The Hilberg is a political Vermont and author of one of the major studies concerning the Holocaust : The Destruction of th ~ European Jews. Hilbe r g begins with a discussion of the Nazi bureaucracy. Tn1~ , s m0 st appropriate because an understanding of modern bu r ea uc rac y is essential if one is to understand the Holocaust. To begin, the bureaucrac y o f the state was created, in part, to make the management of the state more efficient and r ~ti~~ 2 l. F~r example, the Michigan legislature passes laws governing the right to drive in Michigan . '-'.I:'-=,. i..!L;. .:;; a ;__v.., ul:. lc:1.1 ge bureau is entrusted to the off ice of the Secretary of State. . The day to day Here clerks sell license plates, re r: nrd poJ. n Ls made against on one's license and give road and �eye tests to prospective drivers. All of this seems sensible enough. But consider the "irrational" or unintentional (at least) results of bureaucracy: that each member of the organization is isolated and cut apart from the goals of the organization. Imagine what would have happened had the following order been issued to every bureaucrat in Nazi Germany in 1942 . "Attention : everyone is ordered to the Extermination Trains . At 0800 tomorrow, we will proceed to Death Camps in Poland. Each person is to bring a revolver. one Jew or Gypsy. You must kill at least Some of you will be asked to shove women and children into mass graves. Before we return, liquidate all the Jews of eastern Europe . horrified. we will Prepare to be The stench will be awful - but it must be done . " How many bureaucrats would have fled, committed suicide or otherwise have tried to escape from this situation? I'll bet th~t many would have gone to extreme lengths to escape. the bureaucracy shielded tnem from much of this. But Instead, in the compartmentalized world of the bureau~racy, Nazi workers worked away like busy drones. In his writings, H1lberg describes in detail how hundreds of bureaucrats worked for years on the problems associated with defining "Jewness" in legal and operational terms. they missed the forest. Embroiled in counting trees, To an unimaginative civil servant, it may have seemed innocent enought to figure out the definition of half-Jews, quarter-Jews, etc. It was decided �that all Mischlinge - i.e., half-Jews who did not belong to the Jewish religion and not married to a Jewish person were to be sterilized. This plan was temporarily abandoned when a bureaucrat calculated that it would cost too much because sterilization for 70,000 Mischlinge would require the equivalent of 700,000 hospital days. But the bureaucratic mentality was still hard at work to crank out production and the suggestion was made that all Jews in mixed marriages be deported. Again an objection was raised. A functionary suggested that spouses would object strenuously and , ghoulishly, that spouses would overburden the courts with their demand for death certificates for those sent away. solutions? The Before Jews in mixed marriages were sent away, the state would simply decree the "marriage as dissolved''. A huge bureaucratic squabble ensued and the proposal was finally abandoned because of departmental in-fighting and calculations of the amount of time the process would take. On e ca n onl ·• wonder at the human ability to lose oneself in his wo rk . But this doesn't mean that bureaucracies are necessarily harmful. They often are not because their design insures that things will go slowly, if at all. Christopher Browning, in hi~ essay ''The Government Experts'' (available at closed reserve in folder marked: The Holocaust= Ideology, bureaucracy and Genocide) tells how Wilhelm Melchers, of the Foreign Office Middle East desk, saved thousands of Turkish �Jews by cleverly using bureaucratic methods to prevent their deportation to the ea st . Me l ch e r s wouldn't i nitial deportation orders and other bureaucrats were too busy to confront him. That bureaucracies do little or nothing is a very sore point with many people concerning the failure of the United States to ass ist t h e Jews . One version of this is told by Henry Feing o ld in "The Government Response", Holocaust ... ). (also available in The In this version, Henry Morganthou, Jr., Secretary of t h e Tre asury and close friend of Roosevelt strongly advocated a rescue effort in behalf of the Jews, but was strenuously opposed by Breckinridge Long, Director of the State Department's Special Problems Division. Long apparently resented the many "city college" Jewish young men who were corning into FDR's administration and replacing the old boy network of Ivy League connectons. according to Long . Or so it seemed, In any case, there were many pressures on Roosevelt from many sides, which often accounts for bureaucratic inactivity. Among the concerns was the fear that admitting large numbers of European Jews would present difficult security problems, as spies and sabateurs might try to slip into the country . Roosevelt was also aware that public opinion was no t favorable f o r any large rescue effort. As a result, little was done. Students of bureaucracy and the Holocaust might also find it interesting that the British response was much like our own. To return to Hilberg: we should focus on his fascinating �investigation of the psychology involved within the bureaucracy of mass murder. Do you agree with him that the destruction of evidence was done, in part, by the Nazis to deceive themselves? In his analysis of "the blood kit" comparable to Poliakov's assertion that the Holocaust was finally ordered by leaders who were determined to force all Germans into the situation where they, too, were criminals and would therefore have to fight to the end? Finally, does Nazi Germany demonstrate that people will behave very differently in a group than individually? In your experience, do you find that people in large organizations behave differently because there is something peculiar about organized humans? Professor Baum will comment today about some of the work that has been done which helps us understand the bureaucratic b~h6vior rel2vant to the Holocaust. Also read chapter 16 of Dimsdale. I think of Germany in the night, and all of sleep is put to flight. I cannot get my eyes to close, the stream of burning teardrops flows. Heinrich Heine Although Heine wrote these lines more than a century before Hitler came to power, they are appropriate to the Germany of this century. �The essay for today was written by John Steiner, survivor of several Nazi death camps. the ss, In his study of former members of Steiner traces the Prussian tradition which is supposedly a part of the Nazi legacy. One is tempted to quote Hein again: A stink of hounds and bitches , a stink of lap-dogs whose pious loyalty would lick the spittle of Power, and die for Alter and Royalty. One of the more interesting and perplexing problems for social scientists is the possible connection between culture and personality. me say this: Before you come to a rapid conclusion, let Hitler and Franz Stangl (the latter was commander of Treblinka) were both Austrians. As I write this syllabus, I have been listening to the music of Franz Shupert and and Mozart. They, too, were Austrian and composed some of the most sublime music ever written. My American Heritage Dictionary offers the following first two defitions of sublime: characterized by nobility; majestic. high spiritual, moral or intellectual worth. Of Can you think of words less fitting to describe Nazi Germany? �The Perpetrator We n o w begin what is probably the most controversial and dist~ubing part of the course. thro ' r.;:ho this section: ' '.°: One question will appear is almost any one of us capable of being a pe rpetra tor? Monda~ , Oct. 31 Assignment: Read chapters 11 and 12 containing excerpts writte n l J Rudolf Hoess and Joseph Goebbels. Is there anyth i n~ about Hoess' youth that strikes you as significant? Did his f 2 ther demonstrate a quality that helps explain Hitler's success: that Germans put a higher premium on obedience than on conscience? wr o te : Shortly before his death Hoess "Unknowingly I was a cog in the wheel of the great extermination machine of the Third Reich . " What is your understanding of this, in particular his use of the word "unkn owingly"? G~~ ~b7 l ~ ~e i seE s o me disturbing questions as well: 1) He te l ls us that news is a weapon and should be used as such by government . Doesn't recent history indicate that government officials all over the world understand this and carefully manage wha t they want to tell us? , UL ' •. . c;_.'VU ~ . ~ Is there anything we can ~ .:_ L.. ~ Toda y we will Eee the movie on the Milgram obedience experiments. �Wednesday , Nov. 2 We will discuss the movie seen on Monday. Friday, Nov. 4 --- Today Professor Baum will discuss another famous and relevant experiment to this course: the so-called "Zimbardo experiment . " Monday, Nov. 7 Assignment : Read chapter 14. a Clear Conscience : "Destroying the Innocent with a Sociopsychology of the Holocaust". Doesn't the history of the Holocaust demonstrate how vulnerable humans are to the ''slippery slope" of morality? In 1930, most Germans would have been horrified if someone could have outlined events of the next 15 years . Yet, step- by-step , th e Nazis and the German nation passed statutes and performed acts which, in retrospect, seemed increasingly bizarre. But once set in motion, how can one stop? Was the fate of European Jews sealed on January 1, 1930 when Stormtroopers killed 8 Jews - the first victims of the Nazi era? (Three year later, on January 30, 1933, Hitler was appointed Chancellor. A ten-year-old Jewish boy, Leslie Frankel, later recalled: "When I got home that day, I learned that Hitler had become Chancellor. Everyone shook. As kids of ten we shook.") Today Professor Baum will comment on the evolution of the Nazi death camps. �Note; Almost all accounts of the Holocaust cast males almost excluEively as perpetrators. know of female Most of them were. But we do ss members - the Aufscherinnen - who were b~ut&l cs camp guards. When the Nazi were forced to leave Hungary in December, 1944, the local Hungarian Arrow Cross continued the extermination of the Jews. One of the members, a Mrs . Vilmos Salzer, sported a riding-habit, brown boots and a Tho~ son sub-machine gun. She reportedly tortured her victims by burning them with candles before shooting them. She was hanged by the peoples' court soon after. Probably no female was more infamous than Ilse Koch - "The Bitch of Buchenwald" - as she became known. Among her grotesque habits was collecting tatooed skin for lampshades. She committed suicide while in prison on 9-1-67. One documented case of female participation was in the Einsatzgruppen - a special action group of the ss. When Ei Ll=~ ~n 0 aded Rubsia in June, 1941, the Einsatzgruppen were se :1 L in as mobile killing units. States listed personnel as: ss, 172 motorcycle riders, Group A, assigned to Baltic 340 militarized formations of 133 Order Police, 89 State Police ... 41 Criminal Police, 18 Administrators, 13 female employees, 8 radio operators and 3 teletype operators. There i8 no evidence known to me of what the females did, but we do know that the Einsatzgruppen killed approximately 2 million Jews in western Russian. record: Group C claims the efficiency On September 29-30, 1941, they killed 33,771 Jews - �a record even the extermination camps could never match. We shouldn't leave this subject without noting degredation of women in Nazi Germany. Mother" in Joachim c. See the chapter "German Wife and Fest, The Face of the Third Reich. Also see Claudia Koonz, Mothers in the Fatherland. --- One major reason for the relatively few documented examples of female brutality was that Hitler wasn't an equal opportunity terrorist. They Nazi concept of a "good" woman (Aryan, to be sure!) was to be a baby machine. This general topic should interest some of you for a term paper. Wednesday, Nov. 9 --- The assignment for today and Friday are chapters 6, 7 and 10 of Dimsdale. (Chapters 8 and 9 are also useful and can be consulted for term paper topics). Today we shall see a movie, In Dark Places, which features interviews with survivors and their children. Friday, Nov . ..!.! Today Profesor deYoung wil discuss the "mental problems" of survivors and how they relate to family members. Monday, Nov. 14 :. Wednesday, Nov. 16 We will now turn to the subject of victims and how some managed to cope. Read pp. 106-111 and chapters 4 and 6 of Dimsdale. "The Social Systems in the Death Camps". �Some commentators have conveyed the idea that the prisoners in the Nazi death camps were engaged in relentless war with one another for survival. While in some instances this was true, it tends to cloak the much larger truth that there was a very complex social system, in some ways put there by the Nazis themselves. Professor Baum will outline some of the major features of "society" in the death camps. Friday, Nov. 18 Was the Holocaust unique? What is the meaning of Genocide? Today Professor Baum will deal with these troublesome and controversial questions. Monday, Nov. 21 --- Today Professor Baum will discuss some of the major controversies which are most interesting and important to those who write and teach courses on the Holocaust. Wednesday, Nov. 23 Today we will see the film "Night and Fog." You may find this relevant on the day before Thanksgiving. Monday, Nov. 28 --- Assignment: Jerusalem. Read chapter 13. Excerpts from Eichman in The late Ms. Arendt was a brilliant and controversial writer who wrote extensively about the human conditon in general and modern totalitarianism in particular. Her writings on Adolph Eichmann are controversial in the extreme, as Jacob Robinson's book, And the Crooked Shall Be �Hade Straight, makes quite clear. Rather than becoming embroile d i n det ai l s over her account of Eichmann, let us consider some of the issues she raises: The sub-title of Ms. Arendt's book on Eichmann is: on the Banality of Evil. ~ Report You can get her point by reading the first several pages of the section. One of the major points of dispute is her contention that Eichmann was a powerless product of a totalitarian system which could corrupt any average person with an innate repugnance toward crime. How well does this describe Eichmann, Goebbels, or Hoess? Even if you disagree with Ms. Arendt, what do you think of her claim that it is the nature of every bureaucracy to make ''functionaries" and "mere cogs" out of men? We now take up a most difficult problem which we have not considered before: the question of sovereignity, legality and the apparent lack of any clear international authority. I realize the enormity of the horror of the Holocaust raises the queston of taste and propriety here. Nevertheless, let us consider the following: Inasmuch as Hitler held his political position legally and Eichmann had been appointed to his post, why couldn't we regard this as a legally valid, however horrible, action by officials of sovereign state? The scale of the Nazi horror shocks many of us, but governments the world over kill, torture, and imprison political and other undesirable �"en ,:mie-s". As we shall consider later, Americans practiced a varJation of genocide with our native Indians. The Russians are rather well known for their treatment of their domestic -;.;!!'=' t l"!~.:: we like it or not, we generally acknowledge the ·0 ve 1~ignity of nations, especially within their own BordE: -:-s. To the objection that Hitler was at war with much of the wor ld and ''out of control" outside of the borders of Germany, we ca,i o :1 ly ask: isn't the old adage still true, that all is fa i ~ in - ~v e and war? Wh a t Isn't it simply a matter of raw power? i n ternational standard do we have to tell us what is rig h t o r wrong? Eichmann was tried and hanged in Jerusalem only because Germany lost the war and he was caught. Right? One of the most troublesome points raise by Ms. Arendt is this: We like to think that rule by law is preferable to rule by caprice and whim. If true, then Eichmann was b e ha ~ i~ a within the boundaries of German law while in the E i chrn a ":n T.r ial the court was "conf rented with a crime it couldn ' t find in the lawbooks". It's a crazy world, isn't it, when the laws in many jurisdictions clearly proscribe s 0 d 0m ; (~ V~l! in the privacy of a marital bedroom), but there is no thi ng to prohibit the mass murder of men, women and children? So much for national and international rationality. Prcfesor Baum will comment briefly on the legal problems faci~g the Nure~~erg Tribunal. �Wednesday, Nov. 30 --- Today we wil l s e e selected portions of the Nuremberg and Eichmann trials. Friday, A rare chance to see some of the top Nazis. Dec. 2 -- Today Professor Irv Berkowitz will join us. His mother survived Auschwitz; his father fought with the partisans. Professor Berkowitz has some interesting thoughts to share with us. Monday, Dec. 5 --- A few student term papers will be presented. Wednesday, Dec. 7 -- - The Meaning of the Holocaust: Some comments on Jewish thinking. The traumas of the Holocaust reach to all areas of our planet. In our country it is referred to in movies, TV specials and our newspapers and news magazines regularly. What is regularly overlooked, however, is the special meaning of the event among Jews. Today Professor Baum will survey the thoughts of several prominent Jewish writers, including Elie Wiesel, Richard Rubenstein, Jacob Neusner, and Emil Fackenheim. Friday, Dec. ~ course conclusion and evaluation. �AN ANNOTATED BIBLIOGRAPHY Table of Contents INTRODUCT ION I . II. III. IV. V. VI. VII. VIII. IX . X. XI. XII. XIII. XIV. General overview Works Dictionaries Meaning A - Philosophical/Theological Meaning B - Historical Approaches, Methodological Disputes and Arguments About Human Behavior Perpetrators Victims and Survivors Resisters Those Who Helped Those Who Stood By and Did Little or Nothing Women in the Third Reich Daily Life in the Third Reich Hitler Genocide Nuremberg Trials �INTRODUCTION To complete your syllabus, we are including an annotated bibliography for the following reasons: 1) The literature on the Holocaust (which includes, of course, popular subjects such as Hitler, the Nazis and antisemitism) is exploding at what seems to be an exponential rate. Because the Holocaust affected so many people with so many different languages, it is virtually impossible for any one person - or group, for that matter, to really "know" all that is written on this vast subject. Even the studies in English probably number into the tens of thousands. In the confusion of such numbers, some direction is especially welcome for the person with little background in the subject. To help the student sort out the mountain of available material, the bibliography is organized to identify the general works that provide a crucial "overview" of the complex set of events called the Holocaust and then to point out those works in which major studies in the social sciences make significant contributions to our understanding of the Holocaust. A few of the works cited weren't written by social scientists, but in such cases there is a "shared" understanding of the phenomenon in question. To repeat a point made at the beginning of the syllabus, no social scientist could account for the Holocaust, but it is our belief that some of the best studies in the discipline �relevant to the Holocaust do help us to understand how humans could have done such things to other humans. 2) The second major reason for this bibliography is much more practical: The reader will have a much better sense of what is available nearby. Books followed by GVSU are available in the Grand Valley library; books followed by WCB are owned by Professor Baum and may be borrowed under most circumstances. The location of other books referred to in the syllabus is clearly marked. 3) It is also hoped that a reading of the bibliography will add to one's general understanding of this subject. NOTE: A new journal, Holocaust and Genocide Studies, is now available in the Grand Valley library periodical collection. �This bibliography is designed to illustrate the issues and concerns raised when one thinks in terms of an interdisciplinary course in the social sciences which focus on the Holocaust. The syllabus is organized to indicate different "levels" of scholarship on this subject. (Note : these categories are somewhat arbitrary - inevitably so. Furthermore, some re ferences would serve well in another category as well). Type of study Section of syllabus descriptive - empirical I, XI methodological concerns IV normative/moral analysis IV, VIII, IX, XIII, and XIV philosophical/theological meaning III, XIV (Sections not listed will normally be a combination of descriptive - empirical and normative analysis). A general section is placed at the very front of the syllabus indicating those works which provide an overview or gener~l histcry of the period in question. Some general knowledge is important to gain as soon as possible. �The present bibliography is a major revision of a previous one which listed all items alphabetically by author. This served little purpose except to show a certain knowledge of the alphabet by yours truly. The revision was designed to better compliment the social science literature on the subject. For example, the reader for this course is titled: Survivors, Victims and Perpetrators. The title identifies three categories of persons in the Holocaust who exhibit patterns of behavior being studied by social scientists. But as I try to make clear in the following sections, there are additional categories as well. I have included a special section on women to help the interested student investigate the ways in which social roles are developed as well as their consequences. There is also a special section on Hitler and a few other special sections as well. This is probably a good place to mention what the course is and what it isn't. The course doesn't include a comprehensive survey of Jewish history, antisemitism, German history or WWII. This is due, in part, to the limitations of the professors involved. But it is also due to our desire to focus on what the Holocaust reveals about human behavior. We will encounter many discouraging things about humans, including the relative ease with which humans destroy other humans. It is our fervent hope that everyone in the course will come to an understanding of the consequences of racism. Nazi racism may have been "crazy" and based on all kinds of "pseudo science" and just plain prejudice, but it was racism �and it affected more than the Jews - as we will find out. Finally, while it is true that this course is not a history course per se, it deals with an event which has "historical contexts" which must be imterpreted. It is our hope that such authors as Hilberg, Lifton and Steiner are successful in adding important dimensions to your understanding of human behavior which occurs in time and place. E.H. Carr is surely correct, isn't he, when he suggests that" ... the more sociological history becomes and the more historical sociology becomes, the better for both." �I. General Works (Works that provide an overview of the Holocaust) Bauer, Yehuda. ~ History o f Th e Hol ocaust. New York: ~~~uklin Watts, 1982. Recommended for t h ose who want a quick overview of the Holocaust. (350 pp.) GVSU Davidowicz, Lucy. The war Against The Jews, 1933-1945. New York: Bantam Books, 1975 (Rev. in 1985). WCB One of the major histories of the period. Davidowicz, Lucy. House, 1976. A Ho l ocaust Reader. New York: Behrman This reader contains original documents (mostly German) and was designed to be read along with the book previously cited. WCB Fein, Helen. Accounting For Genocide. of Chicago Press, 1979. Chicago: University Strictly speaking, this isn't a history of the Holocaust. But the scope of the work is as broad as that of some of the histories and is complementary to them all. Professor Fein contributes some interesting insights from her field of social psychology. Contains an excellent bibliography in the social science literature. WCB Gilbert, Martin. The Holocaust. A history of the Jews of E~r0pe during the Second World War. New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1985. One of the most recent of the major histories of the Holocaust. This work is based extensively on eyewitness accounts and captures much of the day-to-day atmosphere of those involved . WCB Hilberg, Raul. The Destruction of The European Jews. Chicago: Quadrangle Books,1961. A 350 pp. student paperback edition was issued in 1985 by Holmes & Meier of New York . Perhaps the best known and respected of the Holocaust histories. One of the earliest of the histories and one of the best in terms of explaining bow and why the events could have happened. Originalhardcover: GVSU Student paperback: WCB �Laska, Vera. Nazism, Resistance and Holocaust in World War II. - A Bibliography. Metuchen, N.J. Scarecrow Press, 1985: - goldmine of nearly 2,000 references to all phases of the Holocaust. Special sections devoted to the roles of women in resistance movements in particular and the Holocaust in general. WCB A Levin, Nora. The Holocaust. The Destruction of European Jewry 1933-1945. New York: Schocken, 1973. One of the more comprehensive of the histories. WCB Meltzer, Milton. Never To Forget - The Jews of The Holocaust. New York: Harper & Row, 1976. Easy to read and brief. Grand Haven Public Library Pilch, Judah. (ed.) The Jewish Catastrophe in Europe. New York: American Association for Jewish Education, 1968. Good brief overview with some interesting photographs. Grand Rapids Baptist College Poliakov, Leon. Harvest of Hate. The Nazi Program For The Destruction of The JewsofEurope. New York: Schocken Books, 1979 (Orig. 1951). One of the earliest and certainly one of the best of the shorter histories of the Holocaust (350 pp.). Poliakov's judgments have stood the test of time very well. WCB Reitlinger, Gerald. The Final Solution - The Attempts to Exterminate The Jews of Europe, 1939-1945. New York: Thomas Yoseloff, 1953 (Rev. in 1968). Reitlinger focuses on the period from 1939-45. Still, this is one of the major surveys of the most destructive years of this nightmare. Valuable comments on the fate of some of the perpetrators. Hope College Library Szonyi, David M. The Holocaust. New York: Jewish Resource Center, 1985. National A valuable guide to materials on the Holocaust, including films, novels, diaries, exhibits, courses, available speakers, etc. WCB �II. Dictionaries of Nazi Geraany Any student of this period will welcome these reference works. As far as I know, these are still in print. Taylor, James and Shaw, Warren. Reich. London: A Dictionary of The Third Grafton Books, 1987. Major figures and events are covered. maps and some interesting quotations. - -- Contains photos, WCB Wistrich, Robert. Who's Who in Nazi Germany. Bonanza Books, 1982. New York: Biographical sketches of approximately 350 most important persons in this period. WCB �III. - IV. •understanding" the "Meaning" of the Holocaust. I place these two words in quotes because they are soroewhat presumptuous and used in different senses. To deal with the latter problem, I divide this section into two parts as follows: A. Theological/Philosophical inquiry into the meaning of the Holocaust so as to understand it in terms of teleology, final and formal cause. Questions about God are frequently raised by some students of the Holocaust . B. Scholarly inquiry into the perspectives and methods students of the Holocaust should employ so as to help scholars and interested lay people understand the meaning of the Holocaust as a result of human behavior. There is normally a large gap separating the writing in these two areas which should become clear in the following pages. Meaning A - Philosophical/Theological Cargas, Harry James. Responses To The Wiesel. Critical Essays by Major Jewish and Christian Scholars. New York: Persea Books, 1978. Essays on the dilemma of faith and the question of absurdity in our world. Cohen, Arthur A. The Tremendum. A Theological Interpretation of the Holocaust. New York: 1988 . WCB Crossroads, The Tremendum? "I call the death camps the tremendum, f~~ it i~ the monument of a meaningless inversion of life to an orgiastic celebration of death, to a psychosexual and patholoqical degeneracy unparalleled and unfathomable to any person bonded to life." �A profound book by a theologian who dares to think boldly. WCB Frey, Roberts., and Frey, Nancy Thompson. The Imperative of Response - The Holocaust in Human Context. Lanham, HD-,Unive r sity Press of America. The Freys raise some important questions relevant to studying and thinking about the Holocaust. Interesting bibliography. WCB Godsey, John D. Preface To Bonhoeffer. The Han and Two of His Shorter Writings-.- Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1965 . Brief introduction to this courageous theologian who dared to oppose the Nazis and was executed for it. Contains an essay Bonhoeffer wrote while in prison. Very good bibliography. WCB Hallie, Philip. "From Cruelty To Goodness", The Hastings Center Report, June, 1981, pp. 23-28. Hallie is a student of ethics and the author of the book about the French village we read in this course. Katz, Stephen T. Post-Holocaust Dialogues. York University Press, 1983. New York: New Exploration of meaning of the Holocaust, especially in theological terms. Interesting. Calvin College Library Neusner, Jacob. Stranger At Home - The Holocaust, Zionism and American Judaisrn.-Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1981. An interesting and most provocative set of essays. Neusner explains why the Holocaust is so "popular". Interesting discussion of the works of Rubenstein and Fackenheim. WCB Rausch, David A. A Legacy of Hatred - Why Christians Hust Not Forqet The Holocaust. Chicago: Moody Press, 1984. Special emphasis on the meaning of the Holocaust for Christians in America. WCB Rubenstein, Richard and Roth, John K. Approaches To Auschwitz, The Holocaust and Its Legacy. Atlanta: Knox, 1987 Highly recommended. Chapter 10 has an excellent "overview" of theological issues connected with the John �Holocaust. Valuable bibliography. WCB Rubens tei n, Richard. The cunning of History - The Holocaust an d The American Future. NewYork: Harper and Row, 1975. As usual, Rubenstein advances some big ideas to think about. Recommended! WCB Wiesenthal, Simon. 1976. A short story religious and Probably very issues raised The Sunflower. New York: Schocken, followed by many comments of individuals, secular, dealing with forgiveness. useful for class discussions of the moral by the Holocaust. Grand Haven Public Library Meaning B - Historical Approaches, Methodological Disputes and Arguments A.bout Huaan Behavior A.bzug , Robert. Inside The Vicious Heart - Americans And The Liberation of Nazi Concentration Camps. New York: Oxford University Press, 1985. Shocking photos from U.S. Army archives and some reminders about the ubiquity of prejudice. WCB Alexander, Edward. "The Incredibility of The Holocaust", Midstream, 49, 1979, pp. 49-58. Alexander adds another dimension to our understanding of the Holocaust: another reason Jews didn't believe what ~ as happening (in early 1940) was the long-standing Jewish habit of "hallucinating moderation in their enemies ... ". "What defeated us, was Jewry's unconquerable optimism, our eternal faith in the goodness of man, our faith that even a German, even a Nazi, could never have so far renounced his own humanity as to murder women and children .... " Arendt, Hannah. "Social Science Techniques and The Study of Concentration Camps", Jewish Social Studies, Vol XII, 1950, pp. 49-64 . A fascinating challenge to social scientists: how are y0 11 going to study this when what the Nazis did is outside the realm of what we think we know about human behavior? Askenasy, Hans. Are We All Nazis? Secaucus, N.J., Lyle �Stuart, 1978. An angry and disturbing book. Must reading for anyone who dismisses the question out-of-hand. Ferris State Bankier, David. "Hitler and The Policy-Making Process On 7~.= Jewish Question", Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Vol. 3, No. 1, 1988, pp. 1-20. - Bankier tries to build a bridge between functionalists and intentionalists. Some interesting evidence. Bauer, Yehuda. The Holocaust In Historical Perspective. Seattle: University of Washington Press, 1978. Contained in this little book are 4 essays, some excellent comments on two things in particular: why people tended to disbelieve the Holocaust (in essay #1). Essay #3 contains a brief overview of what happened from country to country to the Jews. GVSU Browning, Christopher. Fateful Months - (Essays on The Emergence of The Final Solution). New York: Holmes and Meier, 1985. An important little book which makes a strong case for the decision of the "final solution" as late as 1941. WCB Browning, Christopher. "Genocide and Public Health: German Doctors and Polish Jews, 1939-1941." Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Vol. 3, No. 1, 1988, pp. 21-36-.Browning illustrates the runaway logic that goes with blatant racism: the Jews should be ghettoized (i.e., ~2lt~e2ted, malfed and congested). Then, surprisingly, epidemics spread. The the doctors must prescibe "the final solution". Bullock, Alan. "Hitler and The Origins of The Second World War", Proceedings of The British Academy, Vol. 53, 1967, pp. 259-288. - -One of the earliest essays (known to me) to worry about what revisionist historians might do to excuse Hitler from any blame for starting WWII. Bullock does call for striking some middle ground between what he sees as developing extremes . Cocks, Geoffrey. Psychotherapy In The Third Reich, The Goring Institute. New York: Oxford University Press, 1985. �An interesting study of a group of professionals who survived and even thrived during the Third Reich. Fascinating exploration of the compatability between the tenets of psychotherapy and Nazism. WCB Darvidowicz, Lucy s. The Holocaust and The Historians. Harvard University Press, 1981.-- - - Some interesting comments on historians of the Holocaust by a hard-line intentionalist. GVSU Duras, Marguerite. The War. New York: Pantheon, 1986. The first story of this "set" is the most penetrating of the Holocaust literature that I have read. Shows the greater impact a personal experience has to a recitation of numbers. WCB Fleming , Gerald. Hitler and The Final Solution. University of California Press, 1982. Berkeley: Forceful presentation of the "intentionalist" position. A valuable introduction by Saul Friedlander discusses recent issues among historians on this topic. WCB Fox, John P. "The Holocaust and Today's Generation", Patterns of Prejudice. Vol. 17, No. 1, 1983. A major contribution! Fox surveys major problems and perspectives in studying the Holocaust. He concludes with something I think should be quoted: [We need to] .... recognize two of the fundamental lessons of the Holocaust, the basic and indeed constant irrational nature of man and the frailty of what we like to call or think of as modern civilization, and to come to terms with these concepts in contemporary society when searching to bring greater stability and even rationality into the present and all the problems it presents: the maintenance of the rights of religious and racial minorities; the maintenance of the rights of the individual as against that of the state; the maintenance of the interests of society as a whole against those of a particular individual or group, ... Friedlander, Saul. "From Anti-Semitism to Extermination", A Historiographical Study of Nazi Policies Toward The Jews and An Essay on Interpretation. Yad Vashem Studies, 16, 1984, pp. 1-50. Very useful essay in helping us sort out various approaches to the Holocaust. Friedlander points out that scholars fail when they try to place the Holocaust into some sort of a generic "totalitarianism". The case �of Nazi anti-semitism is special! Friedlander discusses what the intentionalists and functionalists can contribute to our understanding of this. Gordon, Sarah. "Hitler, Germans, and the 'Jewish Question'". Princeton, N.J., 1984 Vigorous presentation of the intentionalist view. GVSU Graham, Loren R. "Science and Values: The Eugenics Movement in Germany and Russia In The 1920s". American Historical Review, 82, No. 5, December 1977. pp. 11331164. Explores one important idea relevant to the Holocaust: external social and political forces often "drives science. Heller, Celia. On The Edge of Destruction. Columbia University Press, 1977. New York: Heller is a sociologist who dissects the history of antisemitism in Poland. Chapter 1 has a compact history of this in Poland. Valuable references to social science literature on prejudice. WCB Howe, Irving. "Writing And The Holocaust", The New Republic. Oct . 27, 1986, pp. 27-39. Brilliant essay on the literature of the Holocaust. Provocative! James, C.L.R. The Black Jacobins. 1963 (org---:--i938). New York: Random House, This book is not about the Holocaust, but it is about vjrul~nt racism in Santo Domingo and the rebellion led by Tovissant L'Ouverture. Hitler and the Nazis couldn't have "improved" on the kind and degree of torture inflicted there by the slave owners. Helps with a comparative perspective. GVSU Norbert. "Normalizing the Holocaust? The Recent Historians' Debate In The Federal Republic of Germany", Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Vol. 2, No. 1, 1987, pp. 61-80. Eaiape, Kampe reminds us that politics can enlist the services of history. A critique of Gennanrevisionist historians who would like to excuse Hitler on grounds that, after all, he was only reacting to Bolshevism. As Kampe points out, intellectuals brought Gennans their racism and now peddle "revisionism". �Katz, Jacob. "From Prejudice To Destruction, Anti-Semitism 1700-1933. Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1980. Wel l -written essay on anti-semitism in modern Europe with special attention on Germany. Hope College Post - Holocaust Dialogues. ·-·-- University Press,-1983. ft&.& .... " ' , New York Includes a comparative analysis of Armenians in Turkey, Indians in America and argues that the Holocaust is unique. Calvin College Klarsfeld, Serge (ed.) The Holocaust And The Neo-Nazi Hythomania. New York: Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, 1978. Hard evidence to refute those who deny this event. Richard Korherr was Inspector of Statistics for the ss. on 3/31/43, on direction of Himmler, Korherr documents that more than 3 million Jews had been sent to the death camps by that date. Mercy College of Detroit Kren, George H. and Rappoport, Leon. Crisis of Human Behavior. 1980. The Holocaust and The New York: Holmes and Meier, Explores the Holocaust as a "new crisis" in human history. The last chapter and the bibliography essay are most provocative. GVSU Kren, George H. "Psychohistorical Interpretations of National Socialism", German Studies Review, Vol. I, No. 2, Hay, 1978, pp. 150-170 Kre~ argues that psychohistory is necessary when traditional means assume human rationality. Useful overview of psychohistories and a good bibliography. Littell, Franklin H. "Holocaust and Genocide: The Essential Dialectic", Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Vol. 2, No. 1, 1987, pp. 95-104. Littell points to many similarities between Holocaust and Armenian genocide. (See section on Genocide). MacMillan, Ian. Proud Monster. Press, 1987. San Francisco: North Point A remarkable novel of "prose miniatures" of characters on both sides of the eastern front. The author has a wonderful eye for detail and knows a lot about the Holocaust. By the way, "Proud Monster" is the tank of a �proud German soldi er. GVSU Harrus, Michael R. The Holocaust In History . University Pressof New England, 1987. Hanover: This is a major work of particular value to those with some background on the subject. Marrus makes judgments on major issues, including the meaning of the Holocaust, the debate among historians, resistance, what people knew, etc. Excellent bibliography and end.notes. WCB Miller, Judith. "Erasing The Past", Europe's Amnesia About The Ho loc aust . The New York Times Magazine, Nov. 16, 1986. pp. 30-llY:- -Discussion of Europe's desire to forget. Valuable inquiry into the debate between leading German thinkers, including major historians. Mogilanski, Roman. The Ghetto Anthology. A Comprehensive Chronicle of The Extermination of Jewry in Nazi Death Camps and Ghettos in Poland. Los Angeles: American Congress of Jews From Poland and Survivors of Concentration Camps, Inc., 1985 . Valuable reference book containing detailed information of h undreds of ghettos - killing and work centers. Maps, photos and a bibliography in Polish and English. WCB Hosse, George L. Toward The Final Solution: A History of European Racism. New York: Howard Fertig, 1978. One of America's leading German historians sees WWII as a racial war. Hitler plunged Europe into war so that he cou l d annihilate the Jews. Hope College Orwell, George. 1984. ( org. 1948) New York: Harcourt-Brace-Jovanovich Much of his writing offers deep insight into politics. 198 4 is relevant to totalitarian government in general and the Nazis in particular, especially in the abuse of language, the use of war and the abolition of rival institutions, including family and church. For those who want to understand how people can be pressured to do things they don't want to do, read his short story: "Shooting An Elephant". WCB, GVSU Prager, Dennis and Telushkin. Why The Jews? Simon and Schuster, 1985. New York: A unique and interestinq appraisal of antisemitism. Basically, it is argued that the uniqueness of Jewish �religion, laws and customs has something to do with the problem WCB Rhodes, James. M. The Hitler Movement - A Modern Millenarian Revolution. Stanford, California. Hoover Institution Press, 1980. Rhodes breaks new ground in suggesting (borrowing from Norman Cohen and Eric Vogelin) that the Hitler movement was a millenarian-gnostic revolution, that is, the Nazis believed their reality was dominated by fiendish powers and they experienced revelations or acquired pseudoscientific knowledge about their historical situation that required a modern battle of Armageddon. 1st chapter presents an analysis of other major studies of Nazism and a useful annotated bibliography. GVSU Rothkirchen, Livia. "The 'Final Solution' In Its Last Stages", Yad Vashem Studies On The European Jewish Catastrophe and Resistance. Vol. 8, 1970, pp. 7-29. More evidence of the degree of Nazi racial hatred. Documented here is the killing that went on even in the very final days of the war. Sanford, Nevitt and Comstock, Craig. Sanctions For Evil. San Francisco: Jossey Bass, 1971. Prompted by the My Lai Massacre, this book also covers the Holocaust and .American slavery. A valuable book with essays by outstanding social scientists. Good bibliography. Highly recommended. GVSU Schachter, Stanley. "Bettelheim and Frankl: Contrasting Views of The Holocaust", The Reconstructionist, Feb. 10, 1961, pp. 6-11. -Another discussion of the victims; but this one explores the Jewish concept of kiddush hashem (voluntary martyrdom) which might help explain the passivity among so many Jewish victims. Schleunes, Karl A. The Twisted Road£ To Auschwitz - Nazi Policy Toward German Jews. 1933-1939. Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 1970. One of the major works in the "functionalist camp". Schleunes makes a strong case for the Nazis-stuabledinto-the-extermination-of-the-Jews theory. GVSU Snodgrass, W.D. The Fuhrer Bunker Editions, 1977. Brockport, N.Y., BOA An amazing set of poems by the prize-winning poet based �on the last days in Hitler's bunker. Based, in part, on an interview with Albert Speer. Fascinating! WCB Steiner, John M. Power Politics and Social Change In National Socialist Germany ----X-Process of Escalation into Mass Destruction. Atlantic Hignlands, N.J., Humanities Press, 1976. An interesting book by a man with a most unusual vantage point: steiner survived Auschwitz and survived to become a scholar of Nazi Germany and the ss. He has personally interviewed more than 200 former SS members. Important insights on bureaucratic behavior. Hope College Library Strom, Margot Stern and Parsons, William S. Facing History and ourselves: Holocaust and Human Behavior. Waterstown, Mass., 1982, Intentional Educations, Inc. ~ survey of a high school course on the Holocaust and Genocide. Sensitive and well done. WCB Wistrich, Robert. Hitler's Apocalypse - Jews and The Nazi Legacy. New York: St. Martins' Press, 1985. A "hard liner" who takes issue with people like Schleunes. Wistrich shows that Hitler's racial views drove him at every turn. Interesting assessment of anti-semitism today throughout the world. WCB �V. Perpetrators Someone once remarked in a tone of sorrow "we know so much more about those who did the terrible things than we do about their victims." Yes, we do, and isn't it more important that we do? The most disturbing thing about this knowledge is that most of the perpetrators look like you and me. Do you agree? Alexander, Leo. "War Crimes And Their Motivation", The Socio-Psychological Structure of The SS and The Criminalization of A Society, Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, 39, No. 3, 1948, pp. 298-326. One of the earliest attempts to account for SS behavior. Using a Durkhemian concept, Alexander shows the affinity between common criminals and the SS: not only did the ss recruit criminals to perform some of the most horrible tasks, they were together in the sense of being beyond the law. Arendt, Hannah. Eichmann In Jerusalem. Viking Press, 1964. New York: The One of the most famous and controversial books on the subject. Hs. Arendt covered the Eichmann trial in 1961 and presented to the world the idea of the "banality of evil". GVSU Astor, Gerald. The Last Nazi - The Life and Times of Joseph Hengele. New York: Donald I. Fine, 1985. Another book on one of the most infamous of the Nazis. Astor agrees with Arendt - most of us could commit terrible crimes if the conditions were "wronq". Thus, Kengele is not the last Nazi. There will never be a last Nazi. - Grand Haven Public Library Bartov, Omer. The Eastern Front, 1941-45, German Troops and The Barbarisation of Warfare. New York: st. Martin~ Press, 1986. This important work sheds • uch light on a cliche of WWII - that the German military behaved very well. This may be true of the western ca.mpaiqn - but certainly not in �the east. Bartov studied 3 German divisions who fought in Russia and found great barbarism due, in part, to the terrible conditions at the front; B} the social background of the junior officers (same as Nazis} and C) th e political-racial indoctrination of the troops. Consider: 57.8% o f all Russian POWs died in German captivity - the reverse figures are 36%. Good bibliography. Recommended! WCB Charny, Israel W. "Genocide and Hass Destruction: Doing Harm To Others As A Hissing Dimension In Psychopathology", Psychiatry, Vol. 49, Hay, 1986. Charny asks an excellent question: why do we refer to the Nazis as normal? Normal peoiple don't committ mass murder . Charny suggests a theory which takes into account disorders of incompetence, vulnerability and personal weakness (fairly common} and a newer recognition: disorders of pseudo competence wherein the reaction to life's anxiety by those who bring about a stat e of imcompetence in others is a disavowal of their own imcompetence, weakness, etc. Dicks, Henry V . Licensed Hass Murder - A Socio-Psychological Study of Some SS Killers. New York: Basic Books, 1972. Dicks is a British psychiatrist and psychoanalyst who interviewed 8 SS men convicted of brutal mass murder. In general , Dicks agrees with the conclusions of Arendt and Milgram. GVSU Dimsdale , Joel. Survivors, Victims and Perpetrators - Essays On The Nazi Holocaust. Washington: Hemisphere Publishing Company, 1980. An excellent set of social science studies on the areas inoi c ~ted in the title. Students will find this a gold mine for ideas for term papers and bibliographical suggestions. Used in the course. WCB & GVSU Eisenbach, Artur. "Operation Reinhard" (Hass Extermination of Th e Jewish Population of Poland) Polish Western Affairs, Vol. 3, No. 1, 1962, pp. 80-124. Detailed description of extermination of Jews in Poland. Considerable documentation. Interesting quotes from Himmler . Friedlander, Henry. The Holocaust: Ideology, Bureaucracy and Genocide. Milwood, New York. Kraus International Publications, 1977. A set of papers from the San Francisco Conference on the Holocaust. Comprehensive and very well done. Relevant �here are the excellent papers on the professions, the bureaucracy and the universities. WCB Haney, Craig and Banks, Curtis and Zimbardo, Philip. "Interpersonal Dynamics In A Simulated Prison", International Journal of Criminology and Penology. 1, No. 1, 1973, pp. 69-97. Vol. Better known as the "Zimbardo experiment". This simulated experiment of a prison environment dramatically showed how quickly guards and prisoners adapted to their roles of authority and submission. Very important. Hilberg, Raul. The Destruction of the European Jews. York: Holmesand Meier, 1985(student edition). New Hilberg has attained the status of the pre-eminent authority on this subject. His major contribution has been to teach us how the modern bureaucracy assists those who would build a machine of mass destruction. Based on the comprehensive, three volume edition. WCB Grunberger, Richard. Press, 1970. Hitler's ss. New York: Delacourte A brief (120 pp.) overview of the ss. GVSU Hirschfeld, Gerhard. The Policies of Genocide Jews and soviet Prisoners "orwar in Naz1Germany. Boston: Allen and Unwin, 1986. Excellent essays by distinguished historians. Major conclusions: the German Army in the East was involved in wholesale murder. Between June 1941 and May 1944, 580,000 - 600,000 Soviet POWs were given over to the Einsatz commandos. Mainly sides with functionalists. Compare with Bartov. WCB Bohne, Heinz. The Order of The Death's Head - The Story of Hitler's ss. A major study of the ss. Bohne discusses the controversy and misunderstanding surrounding the SS in the introduction. GVSU Katz, Fred E. "Implementation of The Holocaust: The Behavior of Nazi Officials" - Comparative Study of Society and History, 24, 1982, pp. 510-529. Valuable insights into Nazi behavior, includinq the processes of "routinization" and "packaged behavior". JOarsfeld, Serge. Memorial To The Jews Deported From France, �1942-44 . New York: Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, 1983. In some ways this is the most incredible book in my collection. An example of what the Nazi bureaucratic mind could produce (and preserve!). Here are the names of each of the more than 75,000 Jews sent eastward from France for extermination. Each of the 85 or so convoys is listed, dated complete with the name, date of birth and place of birth of each deportee. Criminal arrogance - or the inevitable consequence of fanatical racism? WCB Koehl, Robert Lewis. The Black Corps - The Structure and Power Struggles ofthe Nazi ss. University of Wisconsin Press, 1983. major work on the ss. The concluding section provides a most interesting overview. Comprehensive bibliography. WCB A Koehl, Robert. "The Character of The Nazi SS", Journal of American History, 34 (September, 1962) pp . 275-283. A valuable overview of major interpretations of the Koehl charts the "topsy-like" growth of this organization. ss. Krausnick, Helmut and Buccheim, Hans, et. al. Anatomy of Th ss State. New York: Walker and Company, 1965. - A fair and informative study of the German scholars. ss by four prominent Hope College Kren, George M. and Rappoport, Leon H. "The Waffen SS" - A Social Psychological Perspective. Armed Forces and Society, Vol. 3, 1976, pp. 87-102. Analysis of how Waffen ss grew on non-traditional grounds, recruiting men who rejected bourgeois values and were highly motivated to adventure and group sol i darity. Released from normal social restraints and heavily indoctrinated into racial views, these men could wage their cruel war. Lanz• ann, Claude. Shoah. New York: Pantheon Books, 1985. The complete text of the 9 1/2 hour film, Shoah. I list the book in this section because of some remarkable interviews with some perpetrators. WCB Lifton, Robert Jay. Books, 1986. The Nazi Doctors. New York: Basic �One of the most important Holocaust books. Lifton started out to study Joseph Mengele and soon decided to deal with the much broader phenomenon: Nazi doctors. Interesting effort to explain the psychology and sociology involved. WCB Hanvell, Roger and Fraenkel, Heinrich. The Imcomparable Crime - Hass Extermination In The Twentieth Century: The Legacy of Guilt. New York: G.P. Putnam, 1967. Interesting. Contains photoplates of damning Nazi documents and much information about the death camps, including cruel women guards. Calvin College Hilgram, Stanley. "The Compulsion To Do Evil" - Patterns of Prejudice, Vol. 1, 6, 1967, pp. 3-7. Further discussion of his own famous obedience experiments. Informative! Hilgram, Stanley. & Row, 1974. Obedience To Authority. New York: A crucial book to understanding the Holocaust. people will harm others if pressured to do so. epilogue for a comparison with Hy Lai. Harper Ordinary See the GVSU Hiller, Arthur. The Obedience Experiments - A case Study of Controversy in Social Science. New York: Praeger, 1986. A major contribution! An analysis of Hilgram's experiments and many similar ones conducted throughout the world. Exploration of ethical and methodological objections to Hilgram. A tremendous bibliography on the subject. GVSU Muller - Hill, Benno. Murderous Science - Elimination by Scientific Selection of Jews, Gypsies and Others, Germany 1933 - 1945. New York: Oxford University Press, 1988. (org. 1984). A damning analysis of the racism which ran throughout the German scientific community. Evidence that it was the scientists who thought up the "euthanasia" program. WCB Quarrie, Bruce. Hitler's Samurai - The Waf fen SS in Action .. Patrick Stephens, Wellingborough, 1983. �The book title refers to the ancient Japanese military code which required unconditional loyalty which Hitler demanded of the ss. Many photographs. See also the same author's Hitler's Teutonic Knights for • ore photographs o f the proud men of the ss. WCB Sichrovsky, Peter. Born Guilty - Children of Nazi Families. ?-!::.~•! Y:)rk: Basic Books, 1988. The sins of the parents are passed on to the children. If perpetrators denied to themselves and repressed their own guilt, is it any wonder that they had qreat difficulty in discussing what they did during WWII with their own children. As the childr~n grew and found out more, many assumed a great deal of bitterness and guilt. The "debate" between Rainer and his sister, Bridgette, is fascinating. Tenenbaum, Joseph. "The Einsatzgruppen", Jewish Social Studi es , 17, 1955, pp. 43-64. Some detailed information about the Special Task Forces (killing squads} which went into Poland and Russia. They killed large numbers of people - possibly several million. Weingartner James J. Hitler's Guard - The Story of The Leibslandarte ss Adolf Hitler, 1933-45. Carbondale: Illinois Press, 1974. S. The story of the ss Division commanded by the brutal Sepp Dietrich and answerable only to Hitler (not Hirnrnl er) . GVSU �VI. Victims and Survivors The f ocus of this section will be on the social/psychological dimensions of those who became the victims of the Holocaust, especially on the development of a social network in the death camps which helped a few to survive. Of course, the same social network helped to seal the fate for others. Arendt, Hannah. "Social Science Techniques and The Study of Concentration Camps", Jewish Social Studies, Vol. XII, 1950 , pp. 49-64. Ms. Arendt raises two problems which I think will plague students of this subject. 1) The non-utilitarian nature of the camps (e.g., it confronts what we think we know about egoism and self-interest); 2) The camps surpassed our sense of reality - "normal men do not know that anything is possible." Interesting. Bettelheim, Bruno. The Informed Heart. Free Press, 196~ Glencoe, Illinois: Bettelheim's well-known and extremely controversial argument that adaptation to Buchenwald required a regression to childish dependency on guards. GVSU Bettelheim, Bruno. surviving - .And Other Essays. Vintage, 1980 (essays written from 1952 on). Included here Bettelheim is controversial death camps. listed below. New York: are some major essays on the Holocaust. one of the most provocative and of those who dissect human behavior in the Recommended to be read with Des Pres Borowski, Tadeusz. This Way For The Gas, Ladies and Gentlemen. New York-:-Penquin Books, 1976. Borowski, one of Poland's qreat young writers, survived Auschwitz, yet took his own life in 1951 at the age of 29. Great writing and amazing insights into this place of horror. WCB �Cohen, Elie. Human Behavior In The Concentration Camp. York: W.W. Norton, 1953-.- - - New Cohen spent more than a year in Auschwitz and later received a medical degree in psychiatry. One of the earliest works on the social psychology of the death camps. Costanza, Marys. The Living Witness. Art in the concentration camps and ghettos. New York: Macmillan, 1982. Remarkable drawings by victims, including children, of their experiences . WCB Des Pres, Terrence. The Survivor. University Press-;-i976. New York: Oxford A well-known work on the subject. Fascinating insights into life in German and soviet death camps. Des Pres has had a long-standing argument with Bettelheim about interpreting what went on there. Good bibliography. WCB Des Pres, Terrence. "The Bettelheim Problem", Social Research, Vol. 46, 4, Winter, 1979, pp. 619-647. More interesting arguments in the battle with Bettelheim about interpreting behavior in the camps. Donat, Alexander. The Holocaust Kingdom. Rinehart-Winston, 1963. New York: Holt- Account of Maidanek and other death camps. Chapter IV has a valuable assessment of the camp social system. An eye witness. WCB Dunin-Wasowicz ! Krzysztof. "Forced Labor and Sabotage In Nazi Concentration Camps" in Gutman, Yisrael. The Nazi Concentration Camps. Jerusalem: Yad Vashem, 1984.-Prisoners sometimes were assigned work where sabotage was possible and exciting. Interlibrary Loan Feig, Konnilyn G. Hitler's Death Camps - The Sanity of Madness. New York: Holmes and Meier, 1981. A major study of the 19 "major" camps by a wo• an qreatly influenced by Kogon's Theory and Practice of Hell. Evaluation of evolution of these camps. WCB Gopnik, Adam. "Comics and Catastrophe", New Republic, June 22, 1987, pp. 29-34. -An appraisal of the cartoon in history and of �Spiegelman's Maus in particular. Glicksman, w. "Social Differentiation In The German Concentration Camps", pp. 381-408 in Fishman, Joshua A. (ed.) Studies In Modern Jewish Social History. New York : KTAV Publish ing Hou se, Inc. YIVO Institute For Jewish Research, 1972. ~ valuclble contribution to our understanding of social stratification at Auschwitz. This study shows how economic activity affected social organization. Gutman, Yisrael. "Social Stratification In The Concentration Camps", in Gutman, (ed.). The Nazi Concentration Camps. Jerusalem: Yad Vashem, 198~ - Incis i ve study of social systems in some death camps. Kogon, Eugen. The Theory and Practice of Hell. Farrar, Straus and Cudahy, 1950. - New York: -- One of t he most famous of all Holocaust books, Kogon spen t 7 years in Buchenwald and wrote his study between June and December, 1945. His study was supposedly "approved" by 15 other "high-ranking" prisoners. Deta i led information about the camp. Langer, Lawrence. Versions of Survival - The Holocaust and The Human Spirit. Albany: State University of New York Press, 1982. An examination of such major death camp authors as Des Pres, Bettelheim, Frankl, Levi, Wiesel, Gertrud Kolmar and Nelly Sachs. Highly recommended. WCB Lasansky, Mauricio. The Nazi Drawings. Winchell Co . , 1960. Philadelphia: Indescribable drawings of the death camps by one of America's foremost artists. Lederer, Zdenek. Ghetto Theresienstadt. Fertig, 1983 (org. 1952). New York: The WCB Howard Detailed account of this camp of deceit - i.e., the camp the Nazis used as a "show piece" by one who survived . WMU Lee, Barbara Schwartz. "Holocaust Survivors and Internal strengths, "Journal of Humanistic Psychology, Vol. 28, No. 1, Winter , 1988,pp. 67-96. Discussion of literature of survivors, principally Bettelheim, Des Pres, Frankl and Wiesel, together with interviews. She has found that survivors are healthy �and functioning well. Levi, Primo. The Drowned And The Saved. Books, 1988. -- -- New York: Summit Levi ' s last book, written at the time of his suicide in Apri l , 1987. One reviewer said: "None of his books are less than substantial and some of them are masterpieces, but they could all, in a pinch, be replaced by this one . . . " Levi, Primo. Moments of Reprieve--A Memoir of Auschwitz. New York: PenguinBooks, 1987 (Org. 1979). Wonderful little stories by a master story teller. Bittersweet tales of people Levi knew and the "survival system they built. WCB Levi, Primo. Survival in Auschwitz. Books, 1961. New York: Collier How people with talent use their wits to survive. Perceptive and compassionate. WCB Mandel, David. "One Man's Holocaust" March 6, 13, 1983 . David Mandel's story of Auschwitz. visits our class . Muller, Filip. Chambers. Grand Rapids Press, This man regularly Eyewitness Auschwitz. Three years in the Gas New York: Stein and Day, 1984 (Org. 1979). Yes, Muller spent almost three years in the "burning pits"! .An incredible story of human depravity in "Hell's inmost circle." WCB Pawelczynska, .Anna. Values and Violence in Auschwitz. Sociological .Analysis (Translated from Polish). Berkley: u. of California Press, 1979 . A .An unusual work. Chapter nine has some interesting information about the socio-economic system in Auschwitz . Sensitive and poetic. HOPE COLL Pingel, Falk. "Resistance and Resignation in Nazi Concentration and Extermination Camps," 30 - 72 in Hirschfeld, Gerhard, The Policies of Genocide. Boston: Allen and Unwin, 1986-.- An excellent overview of the evolution of Nazi Camps and an analysis of those who resisted and those who didn't. �Plant, Richard. The Pink Triangle -- The Nazi war Against Homosexuals.~ew York: Henry Holt, 1986. The book title refers to the triangle that homosexuals were forced to wear on their prison uniforms. All prisoners not immediately killed had to wear a triangle designating their status. This was a factor in the evolution of a social system within the camps. WCB Ramati, Alexander. And the Violins Stopped Playing. York : Granklin Watts, 1986. New A story of the "Gypsy Holocaust" from a diary of a young man who lost his wife, family and many friends at Auschwitz. Another gruesome Mengele story is revealed here. WCB Robinson, Jacob. Psychoanalysis In A Vacuum. Bettelheim and the Holocaust-.- New York: Yino Documentary Series, 1970. Bruno Yad Vashem Another lively feud between Bettelheim and a critic concerning how to interpret the victims. Hebrew Union College, Cincinnati Spiegelman, Art. Maus (A Survivor's Tale). Pantheon, 198_6___ New York: Spiegelman is a cartoonist and the son of a survivor, interesting and non famous "cartoon" book on the Holocaust. The Jews are mice; the Germans are cats. Hence: MAUSCHWITZ WCB Weiss, Aharon. "Categories of Camps -- Their Character and Role in the Execution of the Final Solution ... Gutman (ED . ) The Nazi concentration camps (See Gutman). A clear overview of the subject. Wiesel, Elie. Night. New York: Bantam Books, 1960. One of the most famous and perceptive of all the books about Auschwitz. Used in this course. GVSU, WCB �VII. Resisters This short s e ction focuses on those who acted against the Nazis . a~ ~~w~ The range of behavior here is very broad inasmuch hod little or nothing to lose (e.g., death camp prisoners or partisans in Poland), while others (see Hoffmann and S~holl) could have remained in positions of relative safety. traitors? Were the officers who plotted to kill Hitler or stupid? or something else? Hoffmann, Peter. German Resistance to Hitler. Press, 1988. Harvard U. A short but comprehensive review of the courageous few who dared to oppose the Nazis. Fascinating account of the military plots against hitler. Good bibliography. WCB Scholl, I nge. The White Rose--Munich, 1942-3. Conn . , Wesleyan, 198_3___ Middletown, The poignant account of a few courageous students (and a prof.) who destributed pamphlets and defaced walls in opposition to Hitler. Most were caught, "tried," and executed by beheading. WCB Levi! Primo. 1986 . If Not Now, When? New York: Penguin Books, novel based on true stories told to Levi about Jewish partisans in Eastern Europe. Interesting and insightful. A WCB Kowalski, Isaac. Anthology On Armed Jewish Resistance. 1939-45. Vol. I. New York: Jewish Combatants Publishers House, 1984. A large collection of documents which document Jewish resistance to the Nazis in Eastern Europe, Western Europe and the Balkans, contains 800 maps, drawings and photographs. An interesting gold mine. WCB NOTE: Much information about resistance, especially within the death camps, can be found in specialized books on Treblinka, Sobibor and Auschwitz. See Feig in Sect. VI. �VIII. Those who helped As the Holocaust literature continues to rapidly grow, we are made more aware of the thousands of people who risked their lives to assi st the Jews. This literature ranges from diaries to historical description to efforts to find solid psychological evidence for a "personality type" of altruism just as their • igbt be a certain personality type associated with perpe tr ators. This section is not to be considered as similar to the one on "resisters . 11 Bierman, J ohn . 1981. The dynamics are quite different. Righteous Gentile. New York: Viking Press, This is but one account of the heroic swede, Raoul Walenberg who may have saved as many as 100,000 Jews at the close of WWII. GVSU Friedlander, Saul. Counterfeit Nazi--The Ambiguity of Good. London: Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1969. It is difficult to decide exactly where to list this book. It depends on why Kurt Gerstein joined the ss. I am willing to concede that he wanted to obtain evidence concerning the use of "Zyklon B" to kill prisoners in extermination camps. An amazing story. Principia College; Elsah, Illinois Goldberger, Leo. The Rescue of Danish Jews. Moral Courage Under Stress .~ew York:-New York University Press, 1987. Jews by an European nation. It is important to realize that there are good reasons for this. An account of the most successful rescue of Joffrey, Pierre. A Spy for God -- The Ordeal of Kurt Gerstein. New York-:-Harcourt-Brace, 1971. A dramatic presentation of the problem of interpreting this man. Grand Haven Public Library �Hallie, Philip. Lest Innocent Blood Be Shed. Harper Torchbook. 1979 (originally)-.-- New York: An amazing account of the French village where many Jews reached safety. This is used in this course. Provocative bibliography. WCB and GVSU Oliner, Samuel P. and Oliner, Pearl M. The Altruistic Personality -- Rescuers of Jews in Nazi Europe. New York : Free Press, 1988. A major effort to develop a theory which explains this special form of altruism. Contains an excellent bibliography on altruism in the social science literature. WCB Sauvage, Pierre. "Ten Things I Would Like to Know About Righteous Conduct in Le Chambon and Elsewhere During the Holocaust". Humboldt Journal of Social Relations. Vol. 13, No. 1-2, 1985-6, 252-9. Born in 1944 in Le Chambon and alive today because of the good people there, Sauvage asks some good questions about righteous conduct. Should be read with Hallie and Tee in this section. Tee, Nechama. When Light Pierce The Darkness. oxford Pre~l986 (in paperback). New York: A remarkable book based on interviews with 500 christians who saved Jews in Poland. The remarkable part, perhaps, is that many did so despite their own profound antisemitism. Valuable bibliography. WCB Zuccotti, Susan. The Italians and The Holocaust. New York: Bc\sic Books, 1987. This book is not a "saver" book per SP, but the Italian Holocaust was largely one of helping Jews survive. WCB �XX. Those Who Stood By and Did Little or Nothing This section, as most others, confronts our understanding of human behavior. We must understand the pre;uciice of the time, as Joseph Goebbels certainly did when he stated: "If there is any country that believes it has not enough Jews, I shall gladly turn over to it all our Jews." (He said this in 1939). There were no takers. In this country, the following parody of the Marines's Hymn was widely known during WWII: From the shores of Coney Island, Looking out into the sea, Stands a Kosher air-raid warden, Wearing V for victory, Who chants: Let those christian saps, go fight the Japs, In the uniforms we've made ... NOTE: FDR's New Deal administration was often referred to as the "Jew Deal". For these and more examples, see chapter 1 of Wyman noted below. See Robert Abzrig, for General Patton's anti-semitism and that of other "liberators". While most of the world stood by, this section focuses on American apathy. Laqueur, Walter. The Terrible Secret. Suppression of the Truth about Hitler's "Final Solution". New York: Penguin Books, 1980. This disguished historian chronicles the ways in which the world shielded itself from the 'open secret' known since 1941 that masses of Jews were being exterminated. WCB Lipstadt, Deborah E. Beyond Belief--The American Press and The Coming of the Holocaust 1933-1945. New York: The Free Press, 1986. �Lipstadt chronicales the indifference, disbelief and prej ud ice which was widespread in the American press, government and gener al public. If the Holocaust was beyond belief, t he reporting of i t almost was, valuable endnotes. WCB Horse, Arthur D. While Six Million Died. A Chronicle of American Apathy. Woodstock, N.Y . : overlook Press, 1983. The subtitle says it all. Useful bibliography. WCB Penkower, Monty Noam. The Jews Were Expendable. Free World Diplomacy and the Holocaust--:--Oetroit: Wayne u. Press, 1988 (paperback edition). Nine essays on specific examples of indifference . The epilogue is highly recommended. Excellent bibliography. WCB Wyman, Davids. The Abandonment of the Jews. America and the Holocaustl941-l945. NewYork:-rantheon, 1984. A painful but perceptive account of American and allied indifference, extending even to our failure to bomb Auschwitz after we knew the truth. Excellent bibliography. WCB �x. Women in the Third Reich Among the reasons for the Nazi loss of WWII was the underu ti lization of women. Their role was defined as mother ~nd loyal wife--not as warrior or munitions maker. The Nazis considered women to be intellectually inferior to men but indispensable to the perpetuation of the Aryan race. Sybil Milton has suggested that "the study of women and the Holocause has barely begun," but the Koonz study in particular belies this assessment. Bridenthal, Renate; Grossman, Atina and Kaplan, Marion. Biology Became Destiny--Women in Weimar and Nazi Germany. New York: Monthly Review Press, 1984. When collection of fourteen essays which cover a wide variety of topics. A goldmine of bibliographical suggestions and term paper topics. WCB A Koonz, Claudia. Mothers In The Fatherland. Women, the family and Nazi politics. New York: St. Martins' Press, 1987. A major work. Koonz has an eye both for broad generalization and detail. Very well written. Many ideas for research papers and a useful bibliography. Highly recommended. WCB �XI. Phenomenology of Everyday Life This small section focuses on an important area of social science which is a healthy antidote to the under=~~nding some people have of the Holocaust. Many movies and books suggest that the Nazis marched into power as the German people swooned. This is misleading as we learn when we examine the daily lives of Germans who lived through this period. Allen's book was one of the first of this genre and it conveys the daily struggles in a small German town and the changes that took place as people confronted the "facts" of daily life: the unemployment, the price of potatoes, the intimidation on the street, the arguments at the dinner table, the looks of the neighbors. In short, this literature presents us with the daily struggle people had with these "facts" and their meaning. simply marching in. And it wasn't a matter of Hitler Was it Nietzsche who defined hell as a theory ruined by a fact? Allen, William Sheridan. The Nazi Seizure of Power - The Experience of A Single German Town, 1920-1935. New York: Franklin Watts, 1965. An inportant book that has attained the status of a "classic". This work sheds light on the everyday life of people and the "feelings" of the Nazi takeover. WCB Engel • ann, Berht. Third Reich. In Hitler's Germany Everyday Life In the New York: Pantheon, 1986. -- - A tascinating account of the times by a man born in 1921, later living a "double life" in the Luftwaffe and imprisoned in Daucbau, but who somehow managed to live through it all. WCB �Henry, Frances . Victims and Neighbors - A small town in Nazi Germany rememb ered . South Hadley, Ma.: Bergin and Garney, 1984. Henry is an anthropologist who remembers her life in Nazi Germany as a little girl . She returns to the town and writes of the cruelty and compassion that took place there. WCB Peukert, Detlev J.K. Inside Nazi Germany - Conformity, Opposition and Racism in Everyday Life. New Haven: Yale University Press, 1987. Highly recommended: Written by a Germany scholar who understands so ci al structure, social psychology and variety in human life. Many suggestions for student term papers topics. WCB �XII. Hitler I am by now personally convinced that there are at least three necessary (but perhaps not sufficient) factors behind the Holocaust: 1) longstanding German antisemitism; 2) the "terrible" loss in WWI (perceived in Germany as terrible, at least) followed by Versailles, the Weimar government, catastrophic inflation and a depression which combined to undermine Ge rm an trust in traditional institutions and traditional means; 3) a clever man, Hitler, who was the "wrong man a t the wrong time," able to exploit this climate of frustration and uncertainty. His ability to galvanize great numbers of his own people was a crucial part of the Holocaust. However, interpreting Hitler is very perplexing. isn't due to any shortage of information. And it We have a great amount of detailed information--much of it eye witness and documented . There is one basic generic problem and one specific problem in undertanding this man. confronts social scientists: about one man? The generic one how much can one generalize If each man is unique, the science of behavior is put to question . scientists have sai d since: Aristotle long ago said what science is to generalize. specific problem refers to Hitler's bizarre behavior. The How do we deal wi th a man who, to paraphrase Hannah Arendt in only a slightly different context, had a sense of being able to do anything? What do we do with a man who defies what we think is �explicable human behavior? EXAMPLES: Hitler ordered his troops to stop short of Dunkirk when he could have inflicted great losses on the British. "Barbarossa". He named his Russian campaign Fredrich Barbarossa, for the record, was a medieval German leader known for his critical defeats--and Hitler knew it. In the closing days of the war, Hitler ordered his own military leaders to destroy Germany. these and many, many other examples that could be named are very hard to explain. Such bizarre behavior is probably one of the principle reasons why Hitler is so fascinating to so many and why there is not end in sight to the conflicting interpretation of this man. that: Robert Waite concludes his book with the observation " ... we may doubt that we shall ever be able to 'explain satisfactorily', fully, and finally why it was that Hitler did what he did." NOTE: some of the most interesting data on Hitler comes from the notes and diaries from those intelligent few who escaped or somehow survived long enough to tell about it. Among these are Hitler - Memoirs of a Confidant (Otto Wagener); New Haven, Yale U. Press, 1985; H.R. Trevor-Roger (ed.) Hitler's Table Talk , 1941-1944. London: 1973; Herman Rauschning, Hitler Speaks, London, 1939 and Albert Speer, Inside the Third Reich : New York, 1970. Despite the self serving features, Speer reveals a great deal in this book. Binion, Rudolph. Hitler Among The Germans. Elsevier, 1976. New York: �A fascinating piece of psychohistory. An investigation into Hitler's unassimilated trauma - his mother's death. Hillsdale College Library Bullock, Alan. Hitler - A study in Tyranny. Harper and Row, 1962 (Orig. 1952). New York: One of the best and most respected of all the traditional historical studies. A probing look at Hitler's personality in chapter 7. WCB Friedlander, Saul . Reflections on Nazism - An Essay on Kitsch and Death. New York: Harper and Row, 1984 (Orig. 1982). An essay on the fascination shown in our movies, plays and novels to the subjects of Hitler, death and destruction. See Rosenfeld in this section. WCB Hitler, Adolf. Mein Kampf. Boston: Hougnton-Mifflin, 1962. (Written in Landsberg Arn Leck Fortress Prison, 1924. First published in 1927). A book everyone knows about, but few have read. Long and tedious, it reveals Hitler's overwhelming racial phobias. Contains one remarkable passage: " ... if 1215,000 Jews had been held under poison gas [in 1914] the war would have gone differently." Most everything Hitler did was discussed here. WCB and GVSU Hoyt, Edwin P. 1988. Hitler's War. New York: McGraw - Hill, a clear and well-written account of the major military blunders of WWII orchestrated by Hitler. WCB Jackel, Eberhard. Hitler's Weltanschauung. Middletown, Conn. Wesleyan U. Press, 1972 (Orig. 1969). Many influential interrrrpreters of Hitler (e.g., Walter Rauschning) treated him as a nihilist/opportunist who only craved power. Jackel interprets Hitler as having a coherent world philosophy (however sick it might be) which he acted upon. GVSU Langer, Walter C. The Mind of Adolf Hitler. American Library, 1972.- New York: New This has great historical value. Langer was commissioned by the oss in 1943 to write a study of Hitler's mind to help in the war effort against Germany. Declassified in 1972, this edition has afterthoughts by Langer and a concluding section by Robert G. L. Waite. WCB �Lewin, Ronald. Hitler's Mistakes. New York: William Morrow, 1984. It's is hard to believe that anyone could chronicle Hitler's major mistakes in only 166 pages, but Lewin does. Interesting! WCB Rosenfeld, Alvin. Press, 1985. Imagining Hitler. Bloominton: Indiana U. This book isn't about Hitler, "but about the ghost of Hitler." Rosenfeld examines the "hold" Hitler has over novelists, poets, playwrights and movie makers. An avid reader of fiction, Rosenfeld is troubled by "fiction's infidelity to history." An important book because most people know Hitler only through moviees, novels, and plays. WCB Waite, Robert G.L. The Psychopathic God - Adolf Hitler. York: New American Library, 197.,.--:- new probing look into this bizarre man. a controversial book because Waite takes chances and dares to discuss Hitle r' s sexual perversions" and many other personal proclivities. Fascinating. GVSU and WCB A Weinstein, Fred. The Dynamics of Nazism. Leadership, Ideology and the Holocaust-.- New York: Acaemic Press, 1980. This book isn't very well known, but I much. The author does a very good job dynamics between Hitler and the German revea l ing study of how Hitler "milked" of tradition. like it very of showing the people. A the German sense WCB �XIII. Genocide Although Genocide, the Holocaust and the Nuremberg Trials have been joined in the minds of many, I keep them distinct here beacause of differences in their history. I respect and honor those who insist that the word Holocaust be reserved for naming the destruction of the European Jews by the Nazis fr om 1939-1945. The term genocide was coined by Raphael Lemkin in 1943 to refer to any synchronized attack on the political, social, cultural, econimic, religious and moral aspects of life of the captive peoples. As Kuper documents in his book Genocide, there have been several cases of genocide in this century, including the Holocaust. A recent movie titled Genocide and materials circulated with it have done much to link the Holocaust with genocide. The concept of genocide was certainly before the jurists at Nuremberg, but they didn't have time to properly digest and develop such a new concept. Therefore, one shouldn't throw them together as though they always had been linked. Dadrian, Bohakn H., "The Methodological Components of the Study of Genocide As A Sociological Problem - The Armenian Case". Recent Studies in Modern Armenian Histo r y. Cambridge, Ma.: Armenian Heritaqe Press, 1972. Some i nteresting comments on comparing the Arllenian and Jewish Holocausts. Gr~b~an, Al ~x and Lavdes, Daniel. Genocide. Critical Issues of the Holocaust (companion to the movie Genocide). Los .Angeles: Simon Wiesenthal Center, 1983. A valuable overview of the Holocaust as Genocide . �,.. Subjects range from historical background to evolution of the concept of Genocide to meaning and implications. WCB Horowitz, Irving Louis. Taking Lives. Genocide and State Power. New brunswick, N.J.: Transaction Books, 1980. An essay into the nature of a new type of mass destruction conducted with the approval of the state apparatus. GVSU Kuper, Leo. Genocide. It's Political Use In the Twentieth Century. New haven; Yale, 1981. A general survey of the major instances of Genocide in this century. WCB Kuper, Leo. 1985 . The Prevention of Genocide. New Haven: Yale, major indictment of the U.N. failure to enforce the 'Genocide Convention' and the lack of public education on the subject. WCB A Rubenstein, Richard. Press, 1983. The Age of Triage. Boston: Beacon Always provocative, Rubenstein compares the Holocaust with the Armenians, Stalin's elimination of Ukranians and the enclosure laws of England and suggests they all reveal genocide against unwanted people in the age of overpopulation and high unemployment. Good bibliography. WCB �.... Irv. Nuremberg Trials This is another extraordinary chapter of the Holocaust atory. Hitler." One British official exclaimed: Imagine indeed. "Imagine trying But the Americans led the way {naively in the opinion of many world leaders) to try top Nazi officials. Interesting problems and issues are raised here. Conot, Robert E. Row, 1983. Justice At Nuremberg. New York: Harper An informed and comprehensive survey of what a participating judge called "the greatest trial in history". Useful bibliography. Luban, David. "The Legacies of Nuremberg." Vol. 54, No. 4 (Winter 1987) 779-829. & WCB Social Research, An interesting essay on the legal and moral problems raised at Nurember--and their legacies. Smith, Bradley F. The Road To Nuremberg. London: Andre Deutsch, 1981. The story of "how the allies finally agreed to try the Nazi leaders--rather than summarily shoot them." WCB Tusa, Ann and Tusa, John. Athenurn, 1986. The Nuremberg Trial. New York: A lucid, comprehensive account of this large and complex event. Very well written. WCB � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman) Termaat, Peter N. Description An account of the resource Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar. Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1869 - 2012 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144</a> Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945 World War, 1939-1945 World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands Dutch Dutch Americans Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text Image Type The nature or genre of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng nl Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144_Termaat_WRI_Lecture-Notes-GVSU-Syllabus-1988-Baum-The-Holocaust-and-the-Social-Sciences Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Baum, William Title A name given to the resource The Holocaust and the Social Sciences Syllabus Description An account of the resource Syllabus written for HP 231 The Holocaust and the Social Sciences, Fall 1988, including an annotated bibliography on literature on the Holocaust. Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945 Holocaust, Jewish (1939-1945) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9e42f5af5a740c78b9b9238a41e16b0f.pdf 6ecb36735f6544910fb93c29aa0a5100 PDF Text Text Prof. Baum & Prof. deYoung HP 231 Fall, 1990 "Conflict and Cooperation in Society" THE NAZI HOLOCAUST AND THE SOCIAL SCIENCES Books required for the course: Raul Hilberg, The Destruction of the European Jews Eli Wiesel, Night Philip Hallie, Lest Innocent Blood Be Shed Joel Dimsdale, Survivors, Victims and Perpetrators (Syllabus revised by William Baum, August 1990.) Because this course is so unusual, some comments are called for at the beginning. This course came about as a result of work begun several years ago by a committee working to develop a high quality and highly interdisciplinary course in the social sciences. We hereby acknowledge our gratitude to Dean Tony Travis for his moral and financial support of this endeavor. Professor Baum originally assumed the task of organizing the course and continues to do so. In the five years that this course has been offered, he has been helped in many ways by many people. Above all, special gratitude is expressed to Professors Joanisse and deYoung and the guests who serve as witness to the Nazi Holocaust and suffer unbelievable memories and pain in doing so. These guests, colleagues and a growing literature remind us that all social phenomena is lived and interpreted at the 'level of daily life.' The ability to generalize is a hallmark of any science, and it is possible to make some 1 �valid generalizations about human behavior during the Holocaust. However, we must guard against excessive generalization. As the works of Allen, Henry, Levi, Peukert and the many diaries cited below indicate so clearly, every life has its own story to tell and the story is almost always one of the fragility and malleability of most every human and most every human situation. He [man] has the capacity to veer with every wind, or, stubbornly, to insert himself into some fantastically elaborated and irrational social institution only to perish with it. [For man] is a fickle, erratic, dangerous creature [whose] restless mind would try all paths, all horrors, all betrayals ... believe all things and believe nothing ... kill for shadowy ideas more ferociously than other creatures kill for food, then, in a generation or less, forget what bloody dream had so oppressed him. Loren Eiseley The subject matter of this course deserves special comment. The committee established in 1985 to develop a high quality interdisciplinary course in the social sciences needed a good case study in order to hold it together. Inevitably (at least it now seems so), we came to focus on the Holocaust - the systematic murder of European Jews and certain other groups by the Nazis during World War II. As horrible as this catastrophe is to study and contemplate, it does provide an e x cellent opportunity to consider human 2 �behavior i n a wide range of contexts. We are forced to confront the following basic set of questions. How could the people of Germany - the nation of Bach and Kant - become deeply involved in the extermination of some 6 million Jews and Gypsies (and others) whose alleged crime was that they belonged to an "inferior race"? How could Germans beat and kick old women, even young children and babies and then gas them before throwing them into the large ovens of the infamous death camps? How could the "Nazi doctors" deliberately break the bones of little children so that they could "study" the healing process? confront the question: In short, we must how and why could humans do these things to other humans? If you are thinking as you read this that only very sick humans are capable of doing these things and that everyone involved in the killing process was psychopathic, you will confront some shocking evidence in this course. A great deal of evidence in the social sciences points to the fact that many or most of us would have been obedient Nazis if we had been there. One of the goals of the course is for you to learn how the structure and organization of modern bureaucracy and certain other groups can "assist" in the process of human destruction. We will also see the enormous role in this process played by such normal human behavior as denial, repression and "distancing". Another goal of the course is to stimulate an examination of ones' ownself. I think that it is virtually 3 �impossible to go through this course and not ask serious questions a b out who you are and what you are and what your ancestors have passed on to you in the way of religious beliefs - including prejudice and hatred. In case you are wondering, I am not Jewish. Christian. Nor am I (And I don't know enough to be an atheist). I am merely an American, of German-Irish-Scottish ancestry, who is both curious and troubled by what humans can do to other humans. (By the way, Professor deYoung is almost none of the above). Another very important goal of this course may be described as the hope that it may make you a more responsible citizen. What happened in Germany was due, in part, to the fact that not very many Germans did anything to oppose the Nazis. Even though we tend to think of Hitler as a crazed demon, there is much evidence that suggests that Nazi programs would have been abandoned or modified if Hitler had received more public opposition. Indeed, the so-called Euthanasia program - actually mass murder of persons physically or mentally disabled - which began in 1939 was at least officially modified when public reaction reached a high level by 1941. Although we haven't had a Holocaust in this country, we have many unsavory chapters in our history, including the systematic slavery of Blacks, the long standing mistreatment of Native Americans and the widespread prejudice toward Hispanic and Asian Americans (to name but some of the 4 �examples). Most of the examples of human destruction of other humans (herewith defining destruction to include enslaving and the denial of full legal rights) involves a racial component. Social scientists have come to recognize identifiable steps in a process from mere prejudice (I say "mere" because I accept the premise that prejudice cannot be eliminated) to legal discrimination, to segregation, to isolation, to concentration and subsequent destruction. Details will vary, but there is a recognizable process, whether in Nazi Germany or contemporary America. Recent outbreaks of hostility against Blacks and Asians on American campuses should be a clear warning to us all. We must never forget that there is more to education than merely acquiring knowledge. Knowledge by and of itself is not enough. Haim Ginott's challenge states it eloquently: On the first day in the new school year all the teachers in one private school received the following note from the principal: Dear Teachers: I am a survivor of a concentration camp. saw what no man should witness: My eyes Gas chambers built by learned engineers. Children poisoned by educated physicians. Infants killed by trained nurses. Women and babies shot and burned by high school and college graduates. So, I am suspicious of education. My request is that teachers help students become human. Your efforts must never produce learned monsters, skilled psychopaths, educated Eichmanns. Reading, writing, arithmetic are important only if 5 �they serve to make our children more humane. It is trying on us all to have such a grim subject matter. One can only hope that we learn and gain an understanding of the processes involved in human destruction . These processes, furthermore, are not unique to the Nazi Holocaust. It is estimated that in 1914, Turks killed or deported to the desert 2/3 of the estimated 1,800,000 Armenians of the Ottoman Empire. During the early l930's, Stalin embarked on a policy to totally collectivize Soviet peasant holdings. Moving against the peasants as a class which must c ollectivize, become urban workers or be exterminated, it is estimated that 15 to 22 million Russian peasants were killed through intentional mass starvation and other means. (In Marxist literature, belonging to a "wrong" class is tantamount to being a member of an inferior race). Instances of genocide in Asia are also documented. In such a morbid context, any relief is most welcome. The course is titled "conflict and cooperation" and we will deal with genuine instances of compassion and heroism ("cooperation" is hardly adequate here). In October we will consider the case of the French village - Le Chambon sur Lignon - and how goodness happened there. With great courage, the villagers saved as many as thousands of Jewish children and adults from certain death. Later in the month, you will be able to meet some people who risked their own lives and those of their children to save Jews. 6 �Finally, we come to the principle of "lest we forget". Many echo the words of Karl Jaspers who wrote of the Holocaust: "That which has happened is a warning. it is guilt. It must be continually remembered. To forget It was possible for this to happen, and it remains possible for it to happen again ... Only in knowledge can it be prevented." I do not share Jasper's implied optimism because people caught up in a chain of events seldom comprehend what is going on. For example, many Germans who profited from the closing of Jewish businesses and the expulsion of Jews from the professions in the l930's would have nevertheless insisted that they didn't want any killing going on. They would have been shocked beyond belief if anyone had pointed out to them what would follow within a few years. As we shall see throughout this course, humans are frequently caught up in a series of events that are really out of control - only they don't realize it at the time. The more I read and think about the contents of this course, the more I agree with Freud in his contention that the unconscious is more powerful than the conscious. We aren't in control as much as we would like to believe. But don't conclude that the Nazis are blameless. Furthermore, our heroic guests and the village of Le Chambon prove what human will and consciousness can produce. But it is important to honor the spirit of Jaspers and recognize the danger signs which indicate when a nation, or culture, has become sick and is on the road to destruction. 7 �A primary objective of this course is to indicate what these danger signs look like in real life. Grading Policies 1) Due to the unique nature of this course, including special guests and films, attendance is required. 2) A term paper of approximately 15 to 18 pages is required. The term paper will be worth approximately 1/3 of your grade. (See the section following this for more information about the term paper). 3) A final exam will count for approximately 1/3 of your grade. The remainder of your grade is to be made up of an early exam and a daily journal. In a course like this, a so-called "objective" exam is a poor measuring device. One can name dates and names but fail to understand the Nazi Holocaust. We do acknowledge that there are "levels" or degrees of understanding that tend to accumulate and can be assessed in a diary or journal. From t i me to time in the smaller discussion sections, we will exchange and discuss our insights. The journal is to be handed in near the end of the course. 4) There is a Holocaust Memorial Center in West Bloomfield, Michigan which you may want to visit. hours wi ll be announced). go there. (The fall visiting I strongly recommend that you You should reserve two hours for the visit. Go slowly and soak it up. It is an impressive museum! From Grand Rapids take I-96 east to I-696. 8 Exit at �Telegraph Road and go north to Maple Road. Turn left on Maple Road and head west to Drake Road (past Orchard Lake Road and Farmington Road). The museum is at the corner of Maple and Drake, 6602 W. Maple. earned by visiting the museum. Extra credit can be The museum also has a library which you may want to use in connection with your term paper. They have many rare and special books there. Before going there you are advised to call the center at (313) 6 6 1-0840 for information. You may also earn additional credit by seeing an important movie/documentary like Shoah. Please comment on such special events in your journal. The Term Paper Each student is expected to write a term paper. The term paper is to be written after consultation with the appropriate faculty member and handed in before the Thanksgiving break. The professors may select the best term papers from each section and invite the students to present them to the larger group late in the semester. Last fall we learned that writing a good term paper is one thing, while writing a good term paper in social science is quite another. the SS. For example, one student wrote a paper en The paper was well-written, reflected careful research and told a great deal about the origin and evolution of the ss. But it wasn't a good social science term paper because it told us little about human behavior. 9 It would �have been both important and interesting to know the class origins of SS recruits, personality traits of the recruits, what the training program was designed to accomplish - and how it alte r ed behavior. It also would have been important to study the organization of the ss and show how the organization affected the behavior of its members. The significance of these points is clarified when one considers the evidence which suggests that SS members came from "normal" backgrounds and led "normal" lives after the war. Yet, they we re active participants in the murder of millions of people ov er several years. A good paper would account for how the behavior of these men was altered so significantl y in such a short period of time. What makes Robert Litton's book on the Nazi doctors so interesting and potentially important lies in his attempt to explain the phenomenon of "biological soldiering", or how these Nazi doctors could come to regard killing as healing. The student who authored the paper mentioned above received an "A" because it was a good paper. That it wasn't a good social science term paper was due, in part, to the tender age of the writer and to the difficulty in communicating to an undergraduate the necessary information involved. It is our hope that we will do a better job this time around. One of our major tasks as instructors is to communicate what good social science looks like. This task is not made easier by the fact that so much that is passed off as social science is no more than bilge. 10 (See attached �bibliography for examples of good social science). I PART ONE - WHAT HAPPENED The Nazi Program for the destruction of the Jews of Europe As we begin this course, we will focus on what happened in the incredible years between 1933-1945. Even so, it will be necessary to bring in some historical materials, particularly on the long-standing anti-Semitism in Europe. Wednesday, August 2 9_ Distribution of syllabi and discussion of course content, assignments and grading. Friday, August 31 Carefully read Night before class today. It is incredible that our special guest was in Auschwitz at the same time as Wiesel - and has a similar story to tell. David Mandel, Grand Rapids businessman, is our guest today. Wednesday, Sept.~ Today Professor Baum will examine and discuss some of the major issues associated with courses on the Nazi Holocaust. Friday, Sept. ']_ Why the Jew? The Holocaust is inconceivable unless "the Jew" is widely and 11 �deeply seen as something less than human. Today Professor Baum will comment on some historical components of the wide spread hatred of Jews. Assignment: Hilberg, pp. 1-24. Dimsdale, chapter 2. Monday, Sept. 10 The topic today will focus on how modern German science defined the Jews and the phenomenon of "biocracy". Assignment: Hilberg, pp. 27-63. Dimsdale, chapter 3. Wednesday, Sept. 12 The Holocaust is also inconceivable without the "takeover" of Germany by Adolf Hitler. Today we will see a few minutes of a documentary film clip so that you may get an idea of how effective Hitler was as an orator. After the brief film, Professor Baum will compare a well-known historical treatment of Hitler with a more recent "psychohistory" and indicate some problems with interpreting Hitler. Friday, Sept. 14 Hitler's coming to power was done in a context of a Germany suffering from unemployment, a recent raging inflation and resentment over the Versailles Treaty. Today Professor Baum will survey this area and comment on how Hitler exploited the German misery. Monday, Sept. 17 Who were the top Nazis? Today Professor Baum will comment on 12 �the most important men around Hitler. Yes, I said men. Women were not considered for anything important. Our guest one week from today will comment on this. Assignment: Dimsdale, pp. 284-328. Wednesday, sept. 19 The phenomenon of Hitler involved strong and widespread support among the German people. Professor Baum will explore the "tie" between Hitler and the German people and indicate the socio-economic nature of his most active followers. Friday, Sept. 21 Today Professor Baum will discuss the debate among historians and social scientists regarding the start of the Holocaust. Was the extermination of the European Jews the result of long-range planning (traceable to Mein Kampf) or did the Nazis "stumble" into it when other measures to rid central Europe of Jews failed? Monday, Sept. li We have, a very special guest with us today: Claudia Koonz is a Professor of History at Duke University and one of the leading Nazi Holocaust scholars in the country. Her book: Mothers in the Fatherland has been widely acclaimed. Today she will comment on the role of women in Nazi Germany . Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, sept. £h 27 and 28 These dates are reserved for discussions of the term papers with the appropriate professor. sheets. Sign up on the schedule Two may sign up for each time slot (there is 13 �something to be learned by seeing what others are doing and the troubles they are dealing with). We are using class time to insure that everyone will be able to schedule a meeting. Please bring with you a topic title, a paragraph statement of a hypothesis or thesis, and a bibliography of no fewer than five items. You may also bring a towel to cry on. If you aren't fully prepared, you will be asked to withdraw from the course. This will be enforced! This would be a good time for you in t he SS 260 section to be working on your extra credit project. Monday, Oct._! Among the questions raised are how men praised for their "honesty" and "gentleness of character" could kill women, children and babies. Professor Baum will discuss how the SS transformed "ordinary" men into killers of enemy soldiers and countless civilians. Assignment: Hilberg, pp. 100-153. Wednesday, Oct.~ More on the SS. Professor Baum will explore, among other things, the argument that the SS was "the alibi of Nazi Germany." Friday, Oct . ~ Hitler's program of euthanasia began in September, 1939 and was toned down in August, 1941, due to public pressure. 14 �Hitler apparently had 70,000-80,000 "feeble-minded" and "incurably insane" exterminated because they were useless to the state. Furthermore, it gave certain scientists and medical people a chance to "perfect" ways of exterminating large numbe r s of people. If the German people wee sick and horrified over the extermination of their own "feeble-minded", doesn't this vividly underscore the perception of Jews held by many - if not most - Germans? The Germans apparently regarded the feeble-minded as humans, but not the Jews. What did American soldiers in "Nam" call the enemy soldiers? Is the killing and mistreat ment of other humans only possible after a process of self-delusion - even collective self-delusion -has taken place? Haven't many of the worst crimes in human history been committed by people who first robbed their victims of t heir humanity? "easy"? After this, isn't everything else Not e the many instances of delusion and dehumanization, and how it even affected the prisoners. One question keeps coming back as I write this syllabus: Why did Himmler and his fellow merchants in death find it possible to build their concrete and steel monuments to death and yet never submit their "final solution" to paper? will discuss these and related questions today. We We will also see an interview with Raul Hilberg relevant to these matters. 15 �Assignment : Hilberg, chapters 5 and 6. Monday, Oct.~ We need to consider several matters as we conclude this portion of the course. 1) Why would anyone exterminate a group of people when one could enslave them? 2) Also ve r y disturbing is the matter of the attitude towards the Jews in countries at war with Germany. Did anti- semitism world-wide really contribute to the 'final solutions'? 1943? Did Goebbles speak the truth on this in May, "What will be the solution of the Jewish question? (He asked.) Whether a Jewish state will one day be created in some territory remains to be seen. But it is curious to note that the countries where public opinion is rising in favor of the Jews refuse to accept them from US• II 3) Finally, we confront one of the most disturbing issues of all: the historic contributions of Christianity to anti- semitism and the Holocaust. We will specifically consider the statements of Thomas Acquinas and Martin Luther concerning t~e Jews. Is the long history of Christian hatred of the Jews based on a misunderstanding? Does it matter that Jesus was a Jew - or that Jews allegedly killed Jesus? Why are the Gospels so ambiguious concerning the death of Jesus? 16 (In Mark 15:15 and Matthew �27:26, " Pilate delivered Jesus to be crucified; in Luke 2 3:24, Pilate "decided that their (the Jews) demand should be granted," in John 19:16, we are told that Pilate "handed him over to them (the Jews) to be cruicified. John 19:23 says that Roman soldiers carried out the crucifix ion. One cannot avoid thinking about this long history of anti-Semitism in psychological terms: perhaps the Christians used the Jews as a convienient symbol by which Christianity is measured. Christian rites and rituals became the sacred, Jewish rites and rituals represent the profane. In-group solidarity is enhanced by having an out-group devil. It is not surprising, in my opinion, that massacres of Jews can be found at many points of western history. Once again, doesn't this follow when one group considers another sub-human? In other words, anti-Semitism is not strictly or exclusively a religious phenomenon, but is a phenomenon of group behavior. In the rise of Christianity, the Jews were a convenient foil: they had a different Sabbath, circumcised males and dressed differently. Moreover, the separation of the Christian from the Jew clarified the identity of those who refuse to accept Christianity. With the rise of the modern nationstate and the decline of religious belief, "blood" or "race" replaced belief or piousness as a sign of who was marked for salvation or condemned to death. In November, 1 938, Goering acknowledged the importance of creating ghettos in all cities. 17 "They will have to be �created," he said. In either case, the Jews were a convenient scapegoat. It should be noted that France went through a crisis in the l890's which involved nationalism and anti-Semitism. Some of the patterns there were repeated in Nazi Germany. Members of the class may wish to consult a recent work by David A. Rausch,~ Legacy of Hatred: Forget the Holocaust. Why Christians Must Not Rausch examines the long history of Christian intolerance of the Jews. perhaps, is Martin Luther's role: Most disturbing of all, he asked, "What shall we Christians do with the rejected and condemned people the Jews? I shall give you my sincere advice. First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord ... Second, I advise that houses all be razed and destroyed .. Fourth, I advise that rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb ... Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews ... " Small wonder that Julius Streicher, a Hitler propagandist, would cite Luther in his defense of his actions at the Nuremberg trial. In his last years, Luther gave up on the Jews because they failed to convert to Christianity. 18 What do you think of his �comment that if he had been a Jew, he certainly would have converted! Today we shall have a class discussion on some of these matters. Professor Baum will comment on the indifference shown by the U. S. during this period of destruction. Assignment: Hilberg, chapter 8. Wednesday, Oct 10 Mid-term Exam. Friday, Oct. 12 Our "two weeks of sunshine." The story of the Holocaust is not entirely a story of horror and atrocity. Almost, but not quite. In this section of the course, we are going to read about and discuss the story of the Protestant village in southern France, Le Chambon, where a modern miracle took place during WWII. Read Prelude and Parts I and II of Lest Innocent Blood Be Shed. Here we confront the author of the book and the central characters, Pastor Andre and Magda Trocme. Have you ever experience what the author described as 'going through him like a spear' when he read about the village of Le Chambon-sur-Lignon, and their act of moral nobility? 19 �As for the remarkable Pastor Trocme, your author identifies certain events in his life as shaping his character. How do you assess these events - or do you think that Trocme would have done as he did simply because that was the kind of man he was? Why did Vichy France tolerate so much insubordination from the Chambonnais and Trocme? Shouldn't they have shot him? Does the evidence of warning and other help for the Jews from the Police show how difficult it is for totalitarian regimes to really be totalitarian? Magda Trocme found it difficult to lie even though it was necessary to do so in order to obtain the counterfeit cards to save people's lives. moral codes? Is it sometimes necessary to breach Under what circumstances and why? In a different vein, why did the Chambonnais both admit to the authorities that they harbored Jews but lied about many things associated with this at the same time? Monday, Oct. 15 Read parts III and IV of Hallie. One of the most important themes in the book is the nonviolent philosophy of Andre Trocme and the Chambonnais. The author claims that nonviolence was crucial if the village wa s 20 �to resist the Nazis and avoid a massacre. The theory of nonviolent resistance was practiced and made famous by the late leader of India, M. Gandhi. It has been said that Gandhi could only have gotten away with this because the British were so civilized. Was this true? What about the Nazis? Inasmuch as this is a course in the social sciences, the subject at hand is most relevant - besides being interesting. Gandhi perceived that non-violent behavior of resistance would force the armed adversary to re-consider and then alter his own behavior. Did this happen in Le Chambon? When Yolanda King was here in April, 1986, she spoke of an incident during the 1960 1 s civil rights movement when Police Chief Bull Conners, his men armed with fire hoses and dogs confronted unarmed, but resolute civil right marchers. marches were ordered to halt, but they didn't. moved ahead. The Instead, they Suddenly, the situation dramatically changed, the police and dogs acted as though paralyzed, while the marchers advanced. How can this be explained? By the way, non-violent resistance would be a very good term paper topic. As we leave Le Chambon, aren't you moved by the work of the Trocme's and the villagers? Does this case study demonstrate what a strong-willed, respected, man and wife can do to 21 �influence the moral climate of a community? Weren't the Chambonnais practically intimidated into having to do good by the very presence of Andre? Meanwhile, only a few hundred miles away, Germans were intimidated by force and threats of force to help identify and round up Jews in the process of their destruction. Do these events suggest to you anything about the relative strength of social forces for good and evil? There are many things in these chapters to think about, but two standou t to me in a course about the Holocaust: perhaps more than anything else, the tragic death of his sons, JeanPierre and Daniel caused Andre Trocme to questions the meaning of life. Are only the very young potentially free of the burden of seeing life as a dark, useless hole in a pointless world? thoughts. Andre Trocme had to do battle with these Yet, he went on to work for world peace for the rest of his life. Compare this with the passage in Night when Wiesel speaks of the nocturnal silence "which deprived me, for all eternity, of the desire to live." As we are about to meet people who did as the Chambonnais did, we might ask what is there about Andre and Magda Torcme that prompted them to do what they did? the same? How could we know? Wednesday, Oct. 17 22 Would we have done �Today we will see some film footage of a survivors trip back to Le Chambon. well.) (We may see some of this on October 15 as We will also meet some remarkable people in the film "Courage to Care." Friday, Oc t . 19 Today Professor Baum will discuss recent research in the social science literature which attempts to understand and explain why it is some people will risk life, limb, and all their possessions in order to shelter and save total strangers. Monday, Oc t . ~ = Wednesday, Oct. 24 The "Dutch Holocaust" Many people in West Michigan are of Dutch descent. It isn't surprising therefore that some of these people were involved in the Holocaust in some way. With a Jewish population of approx imately 140,000-150,000 and a special relationship to the Nazis, Netherlands have bitter memories of the Holocaust. Except for Norway, the Netherlands was occupied by the Germans for a longer period of time than any other country. The special relationship includes the relative small size and terrain which made the country easy to dominate. Most important was the special treatment accorded the Dutch. Goering complained: "The Dutch are unique as the nation of traitors to our cause." The Nazis had great hopes for the Dutch to go along with them because of "racial similarities," but the Dutch resistance prompted retaliation. 23 In April, �1941, Hitler ordered the deportation of all Jews to the Government General, with some exceptions. As a result, approximately 110,000 Dutch Jews - 80% of the total Dutch Jewish population was deported for extermination. This was the highest rate in western Europe. It is estimated that 20,000 Jews were "hiding out" in the Netherlands - half of whom were discovered and presumably exterminated. During part of this course, we will have special guests who will tell us about their own personal experience during WWII in the Netherlands. Today our special guests will be Jean and Peter Termaat. Their story is exceptional: for five years they resisted the Nazis by hiding Jews, allied flyers, and others. As you will find out, they put themselves at great risk by doing this. Friday, Oct. _g__§_ Our guest on Friday is Mandy Evans, who was a Jewish girl who spent years hiding from the Nazis. Her ordeal wasn't helped by the fact of 100,000 Nazi collaborators in the Netherlands. As she told me, "I think about it every day." Monday, Oct. li One of the most controversial issues in interpreting the Nazi Holocaust concerns the amount of resistance the European Jews put up against the Nazis. Did they go to slaughter like sheep - as some contend? Professor Baum will survey this 24 �controversy today. Wednesday, Oct. 31 Today a special guest will pay a visit. Joe Stevens was a member of the partisan resistance in eastern Europe. He will tell us some of his stories. II PART I I - HOW IT COULD HAPPEN Up to this point, we have emphasized what happened during the final years of the Third Reich when 6 million Jews were murdered. The enormity of this crime of genocide is so horrible that it causes a certain degree of disbelief even today. How could one man - a "madman" at that - gain so much power over so many? Why didn't the German people understand 25 �what he was doing and stop him? How could doctors and scientists become involved in the extermination of millions? How can anyone function and continue to have a life that is anything but a nightmare? Why was there widespread disbelief as survivors of death camps went out to tell their stories of what was going on? These and hundreds of other questions rush to mind. Answers to these questions have been offered, by many, including novelists, playwrights, survivors, participants , such as Albert Speer, filmmakers, poets, painters and an almost end l ess list of sources. To cite but one example, George Orwell warned us in many of his writing of the dangers of the abuse and debasement of language by government officials. This was certainly the case in Nazi Germany where leaders coined deceptive phrases like "final solution" and the "Jewish question" to hide their plan from everyone including themselves. But there was much more to it than language abuse; may victims didn't believe it could happen (even when they had been warned with evidence), some Nazi officials could apparently convince themselves and the tribunal at Nuremberg that they didn't know Jews were being exterminated. It is in this general area that the social sciences have something to contribute to our understanding of the Holocaust. There is a fairly extensive literature in social psychology which deals with the mechanics of repression and self-delusion. Sometimes it was quite unsubtle: 26 SS troops �would get drunk before shooting their many victims. was often far more complicated. But it How could sober, highly- educated bureaucrats keep themselves deluded for years? The first essay in the Dimsdale book by Raul Hilberg will help us with this matter. Likewise, a literature in sociology, public administration, and political science stemming from Max Weber will help us understand bureaucratic behavior and how a functionary working on train schedules from Berlin to Auschwitz would be able to see himself as a professional scheduler rather than as an agent of death. There were many similar examples. This doesn't mean that the Holocaust is something we will ever completely understand. comprehension. It may be beyond Furthermore, as Freud reminded us, human behavior is certainly irrational at times. Our unconscious mind is not completely - or even greatly - understood by our consciousness. This condemns even our conscious, scientific selves to have less than full understanding of our social being. Or so it seems to the writer of this syllabus. In any case, the Holocaust is a good test for the social sciences inasmuch as many of the questions raised about this event ar8 of major concern to social scientists. You may judge for yourself just how well social scientists deal with these questions as we now turn to what social science may be able to contribute to our understanding of the Holocaust. 27 �Friday, Nov.~= Monday, Nov.~ Read chapter 7 of The Destruction of the Assignment: European Jews. Hilberg begins with a discussion of the Nazi bureaucracy. This is most appropriate because an understanding of modern bureaucracy is essential if one is to understand the Holocaust. To begin, t h e bureaucracy of the state was created, in part, to make the management of the state more efficient and rational. For example, the Michigan legislature passes laws governing the right to drive in Michigan. The day to day operation of this large bureau is entrusted to the office of the Secretary of State. Here clerks sell license plates, record points made against on one's license and give road and eye tests to prospective drivers. All of this seems sensible enough. But consider the "irrational" or unintentional (at least) results of bureaucracy: that each member of the organization is isolated and cut apart from the goals of the organization. Imagine what would have happened had the following order been issued to every bnreaucrat in Nazi Germany in 1942. "Attention: everyone is ordered to the Extermination Trains. At 0800 tomorrow, we will proceed to Death Camps in Poland. Each person is to bring a revolver. one Jew or Gypsy. You must kill at least Some of you will be asked to shove women 28 �and children into mass graves. Before we return, liquidate all the Jews of eastern Europe. horrified. we will Prepare to be The stench will be awful - but it must be done." How many bureaucrats would have fled, committed suicide or otherwise have tried to escape from this situation? I'll bet that many would have gone to extreme lengths to escape. the bureaucracy shielded them from much of this. But Instead, in the compartmentalized world of the bureaucracy, Nazi workers worked away like busy drones. In his writings, Hilberg describes i n detail how hundreds of bureaucrats worked for years on the problems associated with defining "Jewness" in legal and operational terms. they missed the forest. Embroiled in counting trees, To an unimaginative civil servant, it may have seemed innocent enough to figure out the definition of half-Jews, quarter-Jews, etc. It was decided that all Mischlinge - i.e., half-Jews who did not belong to the Jewish religion and not married to a Jewish person were to be sterilized. This plan was temporarily abandoned when a bureaucrat calculated that it would cost too much because sterilization for 70,000 Mischlinge would require the equivalent of 700,000 hospital days. But the bureaucratic mentality was still hard at work to crank out production and the suggest i on was made that all Jews in mixed marriages be deported. Again an objection was raised. A functionary suggested that spouses would object strenuously and, ghoulishly, that spouses would overburden the courts with 29 �their demand for death certificates for those sent away. solutions? The Before Jews in mixed marriages were sent away, the state would simply decree the "marriage as dissolved". A huge bureaucratic squabble ensued and the proposal was finally abandoned because of departmental in-fighting and calculations of the amount of time the process would take. One can only wonder at the human ability to lose oneself in his work. But this doesn't mean that bureaucracies are necessarily harmful. They often are not because their design insures that things will go slowly, if at all. in his essay "The Government Experts" Christopher Browning, tells how Wilhelm Melchers, of the Foreign Office Middle East desk, saved thousands of Turkish Jews by cleverly using bureaucratic methods to prevent their deportation to the east. Melchers wouldn't initial deportation orders and other bureaucrats were too busy to confront him. That bureaucracies do little or nothing is a very sore point with many people concerning the failure of the United States to assist the Jews. One version of this is told by Henry Feingold in "The Government Response;", Holocaust ... ). (also available in The In this version, Henry Morganthou, Jr., Secretary of the Treasury and close friend of Roosevelt strongly advocated a rescue effort in behalf of the Jews, but was strenuously opposed by Breckinridge Long, Director of the 30 �State Depart ment's Special Problems Division. Long apparently r esented the many "city college" Jewish young men who were coming into FDR's administration and replacing the old boy network of Ivy League connections. according to Long. Or so it seemed, In any case, there were many pressures on Roosevelt from many sides, which often accounts for bureaucratic inactivity. Among the concerns was the fear that admitting large numbers of European Jews would present difficult security problems, as spies and saboteurs might try to slip into the country. Roosevelt was also aware that public opinion was not favorable for any large rescue effort. As a result, little was done. Students of bureaucracy and the Holocaust might also find it interesting that the British response was much like our own. To return to Hilberg: we should focus on his fascinating investigation of the psychology involved within the bureaucracy of mass murder. Do you agree with him that the destruction of evidence was done, in part, by the Nazis to deceive themselves? In his analysis of "the blood kit" comparable to Poliakov's assertion that the Holocaust was finally ordered by leaders who were determined to force all Germans into the situation where they, too, were criminals and would therefore have to fight to the end? 31 �Finally, does Nazi Germany demonstrate that people will behave very differently in a group than individually? In your experience, do you find that people in large organizations behave differently because there is something peculiar about organized humans? Professor Baum will comment today and on Monday about some of the work that has been done which helps us understand the bureaucratic behavior relevant to the Holocaust. Also read chapter 16 of Dimsdale. I think of Germany in the night, and all of sleep is put to flight . I cannot get my eyes to close, the stream of burning teardrops flows. Heinrich Heine Although He i ne wrote these lines more than a century before Hitler came to power, they are appropriate to the Germany of this century . The essay for today was written by John Steiner, survivor of several Naz i death camps. In his study of former members of the SS, Ste i ner traces the Prussian tradition which is supposedly a part of the Nazi legacy. One is tempted to quote Heine again: A stink of hounds and bitches, a stink of lap-dogs whose pious loyalty would lick the spittle of Power, and die for Alter and Royalty. One of the more interesting and perplexing problems for social scientists is the possible connection between culture 32 �and personality. me say this : Before you come to a rapid conclusion, let Hitler and Franz Stangl (the latter was commander o f Treblinka) were both Austrians. As I write this syllabus, I have been listening to the music of Franz Shupert and Mozart. They, too, were Austrian and composed some of the most sublime music ever written. My American Heritage Dictionary offers the following first two definitions of sublime: characterized by nobility; majestic. spiritual, moral or intellectual worth. Of high Can you think of words less fitting to describe Nazi Germany? The Perpetrator We now begin what is probably the most controversial and 33 �disturbing part of the course. throughout this section: One question will appear is almost any one of us capable of being a perpetrator? Wednesday, Nov. 2 Assignment: Read (or re-read) chapteYs 11 and 12 containing excerpts written by Rudolf Hoess and Joseph Goebbels. Is there anything about Hoess' youth that strikes you as significant? Did his father demonstrate a quality that helps explain Hitler's success: that Germans put a higher premium on obedience than on conscience? Hoess wrote: Shortly before his death "Unknowingly I was a cog in the wheel of the great extermination machine of the Third Reich." What is your understanding of this, in particular his use of the word "unknowingly"? Goebbels ra i ses some disturbing questions as well: 1) He tells us that news is a weapon and should be used as such by government. Doesn't recent history indicate that government officials all over the world understand this and carefully manage what they want to tell us? Is there anything we can do about it? Today we will see the movie on the Milgram obedience experiments. Friday, Nov.~ We will discuss the movie seen on Monday. 34 �Monday, Nov. 12 Today Professor Baum will discuss another famous and relevant experiment to this course: the so-called "Zimbardo experiment." Wednesday, Nov. 14 Assignment: Read chapter 14. a Clear Conscience: "Destroying the Innocent with a Sociopsychology of the Holocaust". Doesn't the history of the Holocaust demonstrate how vulnerable humans are to the "slippery slope" of morality? In 1930, most Germans would have been horrified if someone could have outlined events of the next 15 years. Yet, step- by-step, the Nazis and the German nation passed statutes and performed acts which, in retrospect, seemed increasingly bizarre. But once set in motion, how can one stop? Was the fate of European Jews sealed on January 1, 1930 when Stormtroopers killed 8 Jews - the first victims of the Nazi era? (Three year later, on January 30, 1933, Hitler was appointed Ch ancellor. A ten-year-old Jewish boy, Leslie Frankel, later recalled: "When I got home that day, I learned that Hitler had become Chancellor. Everyone shook. As kids of ten we shook.") Today Professor Baum will comment on the evolution of the Nazi death camps. 35 �Note: Almost all accounts of the Holocaust cast males almost exclusively as perpetrators. Most of them were. But we do know of female SS members - the Aufscherinnen - who were brutal as camp guards. When the Nazi were forced to leave Hungary in December, 1944, the local Hungarian Arrow Cross continued the extermination of the Jews. One of the members, a Mrs. Vilmos Salzer, sported a riding-habit, brown boots and a Thomson sub-machine gun. She reportedly tortured her victims by burning them with candles before shooting them. She was hanged by the peoples' court soon after. Probably no female was more infamous than Ilse Koch - "The Bitch of Buchenwald" - as she became known. Among her grotesque habits was collecting tattooed skin for lampshades. She committed suicide while in prison on 9-1-67. One document ed case of female participation was in the Einsatzgruppen - a special action group of the SS. When Hitler invaded Russia in June, 1941, the Einsatzgruppen were sent in as mobile killing units. States listed personnel as: ss, 172 motorcycle riders, Group A, assigned to Baltic 340 militarized formations of 133 Order Police, 89 State Police ... 41 Criminal Police, 18 Administrators, 13 female employees, 8 radio operators and 3 teletype operators. There is no evidence known to me of what the females did, but we do know that the Einsatzgruppen killed approximately 2 million Jews in western Russian. Group C claims the efficiency 36 �record: On September 29-30, 1941, they killed 33,771 Jews - a record even the extermination camps could never match. We shouldn't leave this subject without noting the degradation of women in Nazi Germany. See the chapter "German Wife and Mother" in Joachim C. Fest, The Face of the Third Reich. Also see Claudia Koonz, Mothers in the Fatherland. One major reason for the relatively few documented examples of female brutality was that Hitler wasn't an equal opportunity terrorist. They Nazi concept of a "good" woman (Aryan, to be sure!) was to be a baby machine. This general topic should interest some of you for a term paper. Friday, Nov. 16 We will now turn to the subject of victims and how some managed to cope. Read pp. 106-111 and chapter 4 of Dimsdale," The Social Systems in the Death Camps". Some commentators have conveyed the idea that the prisoners in the Nazi death camps were engaged in relentless war with one another for survival. While in some instances this was true, it tends to cloak the much larger truth that there was a very complex social system, in some ways put there by the Nazis themselves. Professor Baum will outline some of the major features of "society" in the death camps. 37 �Monday, Nov . 19 The assignment for today and Friday are chapters 6 and 7 of Dimsdale. (Chapters 8 and 9 are also useful and can be consulted for term paper topics). Today we shall see a movie, March of the Living, which features a journey to major death camps by children of survivors. This will enable us to see how the holocaust affects the families of the victims. Wednesday, Nov. 21 Today we will see the film "Night and Fog." You may find this relevan t on the day before Thanksgiving. Monday, Nov . ~ Assignment: Jerusalem. Read chapter 13. Excerpts from Eichman in The late Ms. Arendt was a brilliant and controversial writer who wrote extensively about the human condition in general and modern totalitarianism in particular. Her writings on Adolph Eichmann are controversial in the extreme, as Jacob Robinson's book, And the Crooked Shall Be Made Straight, makes quite clear. Rather than becoming embroiled in details over her account of Eichmann, let us consider some of the issues she raises: The sub- t itle of Ms. Arendt's book on Eichmann is: 38 6 Report �on the Banality of Evil. You can get her point by reading the first several pages of the section. One of the major points of dispute is her contention that Eichmann was a powerless product of a totalitarian system which could corrupt any average person with an innate repugnance toward crime. How well does this describe Eichmann, Goebbels, or Hoess? Even if you disagree with Ms. Arendt, what do you think of her claim that it is the nature of every bureaucracy to make "functionaries" and "mere cogs" out of men? We now take up a most difficult problem which we have not considered before: the question of sovereignty, legality and the apparent lack of any clear international authority. I realize the enormity of the horror of the Holocaust raises the question of taste and propriety here. Nevertheless, let us consider the following: Inasmuch as Hitler held his political position legally and Eichmann had been appointed to his post, why couldn't we regard this as a legally valid, however horrible, action by officials of sovereign state? The scale of the Nazi horror shocks many of us, but governments the world over kill, torture, arid imprison political and other undesirable "enemies". As we shall consider later, Americans practiced a variation of genocide with our native Indians. The Russians are rather well known for their treatment of their domestic enemies. Whether we like it or not, we generally acknowledge 39 �the sovereignty of nations, especially within their own Borders. To the objection that Hitler was at war with much of the world and "out of control" outside of the borders of Germany, we can only ask: isn't the old adage still true, that all is fair in love and war? Isn't it simply a matter of raw power? What international standard do we have to tell us what is right or wrong? Eichmann was tried and hanged in Jerusalem only because Germany lost the war and he was caught. Right? One of the most troublesome points raise by Ms. Arendt is this: We like to think that rule by law is preferable to rule by caprice and whim. If true, then Eichmann was behaving within the boundaries of German law while in the Eichmann trial the court was "confronted with a crime it couldn't find in the lawbooks". It's a crazy world, isn't it, when the laws in many jurisdictions clearly proscribe sodomy (even in the privacy of a marital bedroom), but there is nothing to prohibit the mass murder of men, women and children? So much for national and international rationality. Professor Baum will comment briefly on the legal problems facing the Nuremberg Tribunal. Wednesday, Nov. 28 40 �Today we will see selected portions of the Nuremberg and Eichmann trials. A rare chance to see some of the top Nazis. Friday, Nov.~ Professor Jerry Markle of WMU will be with us today. teaches a Nazi Holocaust course there. important but subtle topic: of the Nazi Holocaust? He He will speak on an How to interpret the interpreters (Everyone has an agenda.) Monday, Dec.~ A few student term papers may be presented. Wednesday, Dec.~ Professor Irv Berkowitz will be our guest today. His mother survived Auschwitz and his father fought with partisans in Eastern Europe. Interesting. Friday, Dec. 2 Course conclusion and evaluation. 41 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman) Termaat, Peter N. Description An account of the resource Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar. Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1869 - 2012 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144</a> Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945 World War, 1939-1945 World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands Dutch Dutch Americans Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text Image Type The nature or genre of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng nl Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144_Termaat_WRI_Lectures-Notes-GVSU-Syllabus-1990-Baum-The-Holocaust-and-the-Social-Sciences Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Baum, William Title A name given to the resource The Nazi Holocaust and the Social Sciences syllabus Description An account of the resource Syllabus written for HP 231 The Holocaust and the Social Sciences, Fall 1990, including an annotated bibliography on literature on the Holocaust. Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945 Holocaust, Jewish (1939-1945) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/923a97c8f6b14e504a3f822c5ab6b95c.mp4 5c8ac7daae642d3d6af14cf6d7d848bc https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ab7c1952df42c1c84c9fa3256b50aaf1.pdf 9e53a7e65c64a634987e94e05ea2af3c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II Interviewee’s Name: Gerard Bauma Length of Interview: (01:16:17) Interviewed by: James Smither Transcribed by: Chelsea Chandler Interviewer: “Now, Mr. Bauma, can you begin by giving us some background on yourself? To start with, where and when were you born?” Of course, that is hearsay. I was there, but I was not aware of it when I was born. I was born in the city of Zwolle in the Netherlands, and I was the youngest of four. Interviewer: “And what year were you born?” I was born March 24, ‘22, and I had two brothers and one sister. They all were married, had children, and we are the only surviving ones of our siblings. (1:00) We—My dad was a preacher—a well-known preacher—in the old country. He—There was no room in the seminary, or else he would have, no doubt, been a seminary professor. He had an honest-to-goodness doctor’s degree. Like today all kinds of people walk around and call themselves “doctor”. Interviewer: “Yeah. Even I get to do that.” You do? Interviewer: “Yes.” Well, like I said before, a lot of sins will be forgiven. And all my siblings, like I said, have passed away, and we are the only survivors. In 1927, I think, or ‘29—I don’t know. (2:01), that’s long ago, we moved to the city of The Hague, which—You know, no doubt, that Amsterdam is the capital, but The Hague—some forty, fifty miles away—is the seat of government. And that’s where the embassies are for countries, so that’s kind of the ruling heart of the Netherlands. It’s a beautiful city. We’ve been back there a number of times, and I’d like to go back once again. But my wife won’t let me. Neither will my children because they feel that at my age—close to ninety—it’s a bit too risky to do that. It’s—The Hague is situated on the North Sea. There’s a separate—used to be separate place, ‘S-Gravenhage, but like I said before, just as you—Just as I cannot pronounce a “th”, you cannot pronounce the guttural G. Gravenhage. So they pick us up right away that we have an accent, which is fine. A lot of people walk around with an accent. After all, all of the United States and Canada is the result of immigration from I don’t know how many different countries. Interviewer: “So did you grow up in The Hague then? Did that—” �My high school was in The Hague, and my dad died when he was sixty-five also in The Hague. In the meantime, I was in seminary, and it was a bit difficult, of course, because of the German occupation. (4:07) Interviewer: “Okay. Can we—I want to actually back up a little bit and talk more about what life was like in the Netherlands sort of in the 30s in the period when you were growing up before the Germans got there.” It was the Depression time, of course. A lot of people out of work, and I still see them shoveling snow with a piece of 2x4 and a plank attached to the bottom. And there they went across the street shoveling snow. We also realized that every time after—at the beginning of the new year, my dad would come home with the news that his income would go down because the money just wasn’t there. And I went to school—two different Christian schools—and later on to high school, and that was also during the war. At the beginning of the war. And that was a strange experience. A while ago, I had a speech here. They asked me to do so. To speak about life under occupation, which is a—I hope I’ll never see a time like this again. I hope nobody ever will. When all of a sudden, uninvited, Nazis came across the border—I want to make a distinction between Nazis and Germans—and then they just laid down the rule. Whatever you could do, whatever you could not do. And for five years there was resistance—underground—because if you—You couldn’t do it aboveground, of course, because of who’d be the end of it. (6:09) There are people also here who were more active because of age. More active in the resistance than I was. I did it in my way. It was—Yeah, again, unorganized because if you’d have an organization, it would be taken away to concentration camps. As a matter of fact, I spent four days in a concentration camp. I was picked up in the train on my way to the seminary town—I always have to make very clear that I talk about seminary instead of cemetery—and they picked me up. The Gestapo did. The Gestapo is the secret German police—Geheime Staatspolizei—and I told them that I was a seminarian and as such—And as some strange thing in the German—in the Nazi mind that seminarians were free from having to go to Germany because everyone eighteen years or older had to go to Germany to work as a slave laborer and work in German factories. IG Farben, which is a very well-known German company, employed a lot of those folks, and they were not treated the best. And one time, in the city of Rotterdam, there was a razzia. You know what a razzia is? Interviewer: “Can you explain that?” A razzia means that the police just stops everybody on the street and pick them up. Never mind who. (8:09) There you go. But I was let go after four days, again, because I was a seminary student. There was somebody with me who notified the seminary that I was in trouble, and, again, after four days, they let me go. And then—Before the war, it was a quiet country. Peaceloving. We had an army, and when the Germans invaded, the Dutch Army had to surrender in four days—five days because they had bombed the heart out of Rotterdam. That’s the largest harbor in—maybe in the world. I don’t know. They just bombed the center of town, and Margaret lived in Rotterdam at the time. Interviewer: “That was the queen?” �Pardon? Interviewer: “The queen?” No. Margaret. That’s my wife. Interviewer: “Oh, your wife. Okay. That’s right. The queen was Juliana or something [Wilhelmina].” And the queen escaped just in time and the government. The ministers, so the government. They somehow were able to cross the North Sea to go to England, and from there the royal family moved to Ottawa, Canada. The queen—It is said that Queen Wilhelmina, who was queen in the Netherlands in those days, was called by Churchill as the only man on the Dutch—on the European throne because she is quite a gal. (10:02) There is a statue of her in the city of The Hague, and here she is. Like I said, before the war, it was a peace-loving country. Interviewer: “Now yourself. You were still in…” I was in The Hague. Interviewer: “Yeah, and you were still in high school in 1939 when the European war started. Now at the time that happened—when the Germans attacked Poland and so forth— were you aware of what was happening? Did you pay attention to the news in those days?” Oh, yeah. We knew about first what Hitler called the Anschluss—that they annexed Austria— and then slowly on they went to Scandinavia. Denmark, Norway. Not Sweden. Sweden remained neutral all these years, and then, at a given moment, Hitler says, “Now all my territorial demands have been met,” which was not the case because whatever Hitler said you could never trust, of course. And it was interesting. We had a history teacher. The man was an excellent historian. He had one fault. He couldn’t keep order. We called him Bald Joe, but after Hitler had spoken in Nuremberg, Germany where he addressed a crowd—“Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil!” Then we asked our history teacher, “Would you please give us your view on this?” Which he didn’t. Then we were like little mice in his hands because this man knew his history. (12:00) And he told us one sentence I never forgot in my life. He said, “When you look at a map of the world, especially Europe, and you say to yourself, ‘Yeah, we grew up between the two wars.’ Then you say to yourself, ‘Well, this is the way it’s going to stay forever.’” And he said, “Don’t kid yourself. These borders are going to change,” and did they ever change. We—I don’t think that we really expected the Germans to invade the Netherlands. You know, they didn’t in the first war. They left us alone, but—And I—Somewhere—I should have picked it up. Somewhere I have a map of the Netherlands. You—I don’t know if you happen to be—know the map that well, but the Netherlands has one thing that looks like the trunk of an elephant that goes down between Germany and Belgium. And that’s a rather narrow gap between the most southern city in the Netherlands and then Belgium and France. So in the first war they invaded Belgium but not the Netherlands, but in the second war they wanted a broader front. As a matter of fact, in the 1880s—I think it was the 1880s—there was the German chief of staff. Von— �Interviewer: “Von Schlieffen.” Yep. He already suggested that the Netherlands also be invaded during the first war in order to create a wider front, but Hitler decided to—just to ignore. (14:09) And he went also through Holland. One of the strangest experiences. I woke up May 10, 1940 at four o’clock in the morning. That plane—A German transport plane flew over and was on fire, was hit by Dutch artillery, and it crashed behind our house maybe a distance from here to—not even to 44th Street. And, of course, I was eighteen. Yeah, kind of nosy. So the plane crashed, and the twenty paratroopers in it were killed because they were bent on capturing the Dutch government and the royal family. But both of them failed, and I went over to the place where a plane crashed and picked up—of course, there was no jet planes yet—a three blade propeller. I picked up one of these blades. It was broken off, and for the life of me I wish I would know where it is right now because I kept it as a souvenir. And there’s a possibility that it’s still stuck under the house where we lived in the city of The Hague, but I’m not quite sure. But it would have been a good trophy. No, we did not expect—I don’t think we expected it, and—But they came anyways. (16:02) And, you know, we had heard of—It’s a biblical expression: “of wars and rumors of wars.” Austria, Scandinavia. It was, I think, in March. Interviewer: “In April. April. Yeah.” April. Yeah, and then the Norwegians sank a heavy German cruiser close to Oslo, and—But we still—I don’t think we still—I don’t think we expected it. But it was a [?]. You talk about war, and when you’re that age, there’s something romantic about war. I found out there’s nothing romantic about it, and then the first—One of the first things I saw was a truck of a dairy—a flatbed—and went north to—The Hague was surrounded by a couple of very small airport, and that truck was on its way to one of these airports. Because then I realized war means coffins. And war means death, and war means coffins. That was a real—Yes, in a way, a surprise for me. Interviewer: “Yeah. Was the truck carrying coffins?” Yeah, the truck was carrying coffins, and it went north to one of these airfields, which the Germans wanted to capture. They were not able to. They were defeated there, and after the war, I went south to Rotterdam, not knowing that my wife was living there at the time. (18:11) And so that was not the reason I went to Rotterdam, but the heart was bombed out of Rotterdam. It was still smoking and smoldering. Terrible stench because Rotterdam is a harbor, so in these warehouses, they had all kinds of stuff that was, yeah, ready for loading and unloading. My— Margaret’s father was in business in grain import and export, and he dealt a lot with that kind of stuff. Shipping in from United States, Canada, and all over the world and then transferring it to barges that would go to Germany and France and I don’t know where all. Interviewer: “Okay, so you actually went to Rotterdam shortly after the Dutch surrendered then?” Right. �Interviewer: “So you can see some of what the city was like at that point. What were the— Do you remember the first time you saw German soldiers actually coming in and taking over?” Yep. They—We lived just one block away from a main artery, and they rode in the trucks there. And they had their goosesteps. You know how they do that? And it was, in a sense, a terrifying thing to see that, especially since we were a peace-loving country. (20:06) The artillery dated back maybe to before the first war. I don’t know, and then slowly on—Then they had the like— In The Hague, the seat of the government, there is what they call the Hall of Knights that dates back, I think, to 13—1400. And then, once a year, the queen comes with a golden—in a golden carriage drawn by eight horses and all kinds of coaches following with the ministers, and I don’t know who all was in there. And then she had a speech on the throne, which, of course, just like the [?] was written by the government, not by her, but then she always talked about my government, which is correct. And then just after the war was over, then the Germans appointed a man by the name of Seyss-Inquart. He was from Austria, and he limped. So, within no time, the Dutch had a new name for him—Six and a Quart—referring to his limping. And then, on the queen’s birthday—No, on the birthday of her son-in-law, Prince Bernhard, who was a German— But on his birthday, people walked around with a flower in the lapel because he always wore a flower in his lapel, and then Dutch sympathizers wanted to pull it out. (22:29) But they also put some razor blades next to it, so they detected very soon that you better be very careful. But when Seyss-Inquart sat on the throne where the queen always sat during the opening of parliament— totally insensitive, of course—But then right away the Germans put down the law, and one of my impressions is that there was an absolute lack of all kinds of justice. The German sympathizers— Did you ever hear the word “Quisling”? In Norway, he was the Dutch—the Norwegian traitor, and Quisling has become synonymous with traitor. If you are a Quisling, that is not so good, and he behaved like royalty. And then very soon already ration cards came in because Holland has a large—not such a large area and several million people. I think eight million, but don’t quote me on this. (24:00) Six or eight million. Something is in the back of my mind. Maybe six million people and not enough farmland to maintain and to feed that country, so there had to be rationing. And when we came here, people complained about it that during the war, sugar was getting rationed, I think, and gasoline and tires, and then I always kind of smile because for the rest there was enough. And there was freedom. You could say openly, “I don’t agree with FDR,” or whatever else, and no one would say anything about it. The British had a Dutch radio broadcast. Radio Oranje they called it. You know, orange is the Dutch national color because the royal family is the House of Orange, and on the birthday of the queen, everyone walks around with some orange in his lapel or kids with a—kind of a shawl around them. But you couldn’t do that, of course, during the war, and—But, as I said, the worst remembrance I have is a total lack of any kind of justice. They could pick you up on the street like they did me because I was supposed to work as a slave laborer in Germany. Interviewer: “Now how soon did they start to move people out of the Netherlands as slave laborers? Was that later in the war, or were they—” No, that was a bit later, not immediately. (26:04) No, I think they first may have tried some appeasement. After all, we’re all Germanic. Dutch is a Germanic language, and I think they tried appeasement. But very soon they found out that it didn’t work, and slowly on the resistance �began. And there was a preacher who had to—what we called—He had to dive. He had to go underwater—had to disappear—and he went from pulpit to pulpit always unannounced because that would be too dangerous to announce it. And then he basically had the same sermon that resistance was required, but then he had to go again right away. I remember in the city of Arnhem there was a minister by the name of Jacobus Overduin, and he was minister in Arnhem. You know, remember Arnhem: A Bridge Too Far? And he preached—Oh, yeah, the Germans wanted to appoint a German sympathizer as supervisor of the Christian schools in Arnhem. And he preached against it, and at the dinner table he left. And the Germans came in a bit after he had left, and he went underwater. (28:01) You know, one of these expressions that are coined in those days, and he—Every now and then he would appear here and there, and I think—but no, I don’t want to tell this as gospel truth—that his wife expected a baby. And they also know the story of birds and the bees, and they discovered that he had been home. But then he was gone again, and then finally they—Yeah, he went to Dachau. They picked him up somewhere, and he went to the concentration camp in Dachau. You heard of Dachau? One of the infamous German concentration camps. We were there. And I think it was two or three years ago, and then at the gate in wrought iron in a semicircle it says, “Labor—Arbeit—” Interviewer: “‘Arbeit macht frei.’ Yeah.” “Macht frei”. And, of course, that is as ludicrous as it can—as can be, and what they have done to Dachau now is they razed all the barracks. And then after—That was after the war, and then they built a brand new one the way it was at the beginning. And that’s—They sanitized the whole business. The execution place is still there and with the three crosses, and—Now maybe I’m not very organized in all that I say because things are popping up. (30:03) Interviewer: “That’s okay. All right. Now did the Dutch minister survive Dachau, or did he die there?” He survived, and he wrote a book under the title Hell and Heaven in Dachau where he pointed out the typical—For the Nazis. Not Germans, but the Nazis. And it’s a different breed. The inconsistency of Nazism. Like sometimes they had to clean the sidewalk with a toothbrush. I think that book has been translated into English, but I’m not certain. But something in the back of my mind—It has been translated, but the title escapes me. Interviewer: “All right. Well, I mean, that’s sort of a side issue as far as your story goes, so we’re primarily interested in recording kind of what you witnessed and experienced.” Yeah. Well, what we—what I witnessed at four o’clock, May 10, 1940—The German plane was flying overhead, and they tried to surround the city of The Hague with paratroopers. But they— Their main purpose failed, and, yeah, then slowly on they kind of tightened the screws. Newspapers had to be restricted in what they could print. Magazines were censored. (32:03) Again, lack of freedom and the lack of justice. If you ride a bike on the street and somebody wanted it—“The bike is mine.” And when I went to Rotterdam on my bike, which is maybe twenty miles, and I saw that city smoldering—Terrible stench. And now they put a statue there of a man with his arms up. Had been made by a man by the name of Zadkine. Z-D—I think it was Polish. And he has a great, big hole in his body, and the Germans—Excuse me. The Dutch �very soon called it John Asshole. Not a very polite word, but that’s—I mean, that’s the reality. They nicknamed it. Yeah, ask me some questions. Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now your seminary remained open. You were able to continue to go to school for a while?” I was in high school yet, and in ‘42, I graduated from high school and went to seminary close to the city where I was born. And then there was—We—They sent us home again in ‘42. In ’43. January ‘43. (34:03) They closed the seminary because it was too tempting for the Germans just to go there and pick up a couple of carloads of young men because everyone over eighteen had to go to Germany. And did I say this already? That—Oh, yeah, I mentioned the word “razzia”. In Rotterdam and in The Hague, too, where I lived, they just stopped everybody on the street. And yeah, I’m a seminarian. Never mind even if you’re a cousin to Hitler, you still have to go to Germany, and one of my high school classmates went to Germany. And he never returned. He was killed in an air raid. Interviewer: “Okay. Now, even though your seminary was closed, you still had the status of a seminarian? You had a different thing marked on your identification papers, or…?” Yeah, I had—Yeah, I had a piece of paper that I was a seminarian. Interviewer: “So what did you do after the seminary closed?” Stuff that my folks didn’t know and shouldn’t know because no one talked about what happened and what you did. That was also, yeah, a code of ethics. You just didn’t talk about it. Like I had a little crystal set—and don’t ask me how it works—but I could listen to the British radio, and the Germans work in the same frequency as the British radio. And it went, “Woo, woo.” They interrupted it so that—That was a very loud one, so you had to be very careful listening to it because everyone out on the street could hear it. (36:10) And it was a sign of extreme weakness that you may not listen to what the other one has to say. Extreme weakness. Yeah, what else? Interviewer: “Okay. Well, did you get involved at all with the resistance, or did you know people who were in it?” I was in it. Yeah, I listened to the British radio and then wrote bulletins and send them to a friend of mine and gave them to a friend of mine who was a law student, and he worked—of all things—at the Peace Palace. By the way, in 1913, the Peace Palace in The Hague—Beautiful building, enormous grounds, very well-kept. And the Peace Palace was opened in 1913, and a practical joker in August ‘14 attached a sign to the gate. The sign said, “For rent,” when the first war broke out. “For rent.” And so I went to the Peace Palace, and we exchanged ideas there. And that some of them are later put into print, but, again, do you know any Latin? Interviewer: “A little.” And—“Nomina sunt odiosa.” Names are not to be mentioned. That was a principle of resistance, and one day we were at home. (38:10) And my—Somehow my dad got a hold of one of these �printed pages. I don’t know how he got a hold of it, and my dad was a smart man. Well, he said—Then I told him. I said, “Hey, it’s seems to be good on the Russian front.” “How do you know?” he said. I said, “Look. What is—” Because then I pointed at my dad. I said, “Look what this bulletin has to say.” He did not know that his own son had written that bulletin, and I saw the purpose of these bulletins not so much the bearer of truth but to build up morale. And yeah, the Russians are beaten back. The Germans are beaten back on the Russian front, and I made a long story of it. And my dad said— “Yeah,” he said when he saw that, and, again, I don’t know how he got a hold of it. When he saw it, well, he said, “But that’s written by Dutch army officers.” I didn’t contradict him, and I don’t think I ever did. Interviewer: “Now how did you get started doing that?” Slowly on because I had that crystal set that you could listen to the British radio, and I don’t know how I got started doing it. Interviewer: “Okay, but somehow your friend, the law student, must have found out, or you told him or something.” Yeah. Oh, yeah, he knew it. He knew it. Yeah. Interviewer: “All right. Now did you know of people who were involved in the resistance who got caught by the Germans or arrested?” (40:05) Oh, yeah. You know, I said, “Why did you [?] like me?” Did you ever hear—You heard the name of Witte Travel on 28th Street? He is dead—also used to live in this building—and we were very good friends for years already. And he died a while ago—I think two years ago—and he was really involved in the Dutch resistance. He was a policeman—the Coast Guard—and so he walked around in uniform. But one day they caught him and stuck him in jail and did not treat him very kindly. He told me a couple of things about it, and on the day of liberation, May 5, 1944—No, 1945. He was in prison in Amsterdam, and he could see through a crack in the window that people were celebrating in front of the prison. But he was still under lock and never knowing would the Germans still come and out of spite still kill him, and they did a lot of that stuff. Like on the day of liberation the Dutch people were celebrating on the dam square—that’s just D-A-M, no N—in front of the royal palace, and at the corner was a hotel with a balcony. (42:08) And they set up a machine gun and start firing into the crowd, and I think they killed some twenty, twenty-five people there out of spite. Like what they also did is, out of spite—You know what a polder is? Interviewer: “Well, you can explain that because this audience won’t know what one is.” Pardon? Interviewer: “The audience for this will not know what a polder is.” No. A polder is a piece of sea, and they build a dike around it and then empty it so it can be used for agricultural purposes. And they—Out of spite, they blew the dike in one of these polders, and �so the thing was flooded again. Millions of dollars of damage—farms, farmland—but they didn’t care. And so it had to be dried again and then—I think it was saltwater, and then you have to put gypsum on it and kind of plow it—I don’t know exactly how that works. I’m not a chemist, although I was—At first, I would go to be a doctor, but I quit that very soon because chemistry was not my cup of tea. Interviewer: “All right. You were talking about the Germans sort of wrecked things on the way out or as they were about to surrender.” Yeah, yeah, and then when they—After they surrendered, they—Did you ever hear of the enclosure dike? (44:00) That’s—There is a kind of an inner sea connected to the North Sea— saltwater—and there is an enclosure dike, I think, some fifteen miles. And they just let the Germans walk home maybe also out of spite, but—Instead of putting them on trucks. Well, bridges were blown, railroads were impossible, so there was no transportation. Finally, when I went back to seminary in the end of ‘45—No, in the summer of ‘45. Then we had to zigzag across the Netherlands because all these bridges were gone, and in those days we just blessed the Bailey bridges. Did you ever hear of a Bailey bridge? Just like a—Pieces they put together, and then you can make bridges out of it. You can make whatever you want out of it. Interviewer: “Right, right. The military engineers kind of built these replacement bridges. Portable ones. Right.” I don’t know how many bridges there are in Holland, of course, with all these rivers and canals, but the main ones were gone. All the raw material of the railroads were stolen, and we had to start from scratch. When I went back to seminary, I had to hitchhike. There were simply no transportation. Interviewer: “Okay. I want to back up a little bit back into the war years themselves. Now do you remember hearing about the D-Day landings in Normandy in ‘44?” Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Interviewer: “Did you view that as significant or special at the time, or…?” (46:05) That was the turning point in the war for us because we knew this was the beginning of the end, and then the Germans had a very clever way of indicating that they were retreating. I remember when they were retreating in Germany—In Russia. Then the German official bulletin said that heavy fighting, for instance, was going on east of Smolensk—that’s a city in Russia somewhere—but the Russians were beaten back with heavy losses on their part. Couple days later, the official German bulletin said, “The Russians were beaten back with heavy losses on their part west of Smolensk,” which is one way of admitting, “We’re retreating.” And you could never trust these bulletins, of course. We could trust what came from the BBC, and we blindly believed it. Maybe it was overblown a bit at times, but we needed it. Interviewer: “Well, their policy was mostly to actually be accurate and tell the truth because they wanted people to believe them and not the Nazis, so a lot of it would have �been—Okay. Now what about when the British tried to attack through the Netherlands and—to go to Arnhem? Were you paying special attention to that?” “A bridge too far”. Oh, yes. As a matter of fact, my wife was kind of working as a supervisor in a boarding school for Dutch girls of nobility, and one of them—I forget her name. I’ll ask her. One of them was Dutch—Yeah, was Dutch nobility, and the boarding school was right across from the “bridge too far”. (48:29) So I think in June, July ‘44, she left there, went back home. Was getting too dangerous. And a couple of years—I think two and a half years ago was the last time we were in Holland, and then our kids wanted to see the “bridge too far”. And, you know, the “bridge too far” was half—was—They came as far in ‘44 as Nijmegen. That is—There are a couple of rivers there—the Rhine and the Meuse and the Waal—and Nijmegen had a bridge across the Waal. And Arnhem had a bridge across the Rhine, and there was a little town. Maybe they were twenty miles apart. There was a little town halfway, and that’s as far as the Allied came. And they couldn’t get any further, and it lasted like that all winter. And then we had the infamous Hunger Winter. We were evacuated by the Germans because they declared that little fishing harbor to be part of a fortress. (50:05) They tore down a lot of houses there and made a tank trap there—deep canal—and built bunkers in the middle of the city. I don’t know what they came—what came of these bunkers because it is solid concrete, and there were houses right next door to it. So the only way to demolish it would be with—Not with dynamite, but with power tools. Because if they would’ve used dynamite, then many of these houses would’ve been demolished, too. Interviewer: “Okay. Now this was in The Hague that you’re talking about?” In The Hague. Right. Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, so where did they evacuate you to? Just another part of town or farther away?” We—Some people had to go away to—Whose jobs were not supposed to be essential. They had to move to the eastern part of the Netherlands, and because my dad was a minister, we could stay around there. But we had to move out of that circle of that fortress. If you go by streetcar—A streetcar went through that part, but as soon as you came into that part, the conductor had to lock the doors of the—So nobody could get out, and as soon as you’re out of it again, he opened the doors again. And they tore down a lot of—Was beautiful piece of woods behind our house. (52:04) They tore half of it down, and there was a grassy area. I think it was used as a parade ground once, and they put up all kinds of what they called Rommel’s asparagus. That’s poles, and they’re connected with barbed wire—interconnected—so that paratroopers could not land there. Well, they never tried. What happened—They—The Allies in April ‘45 dropped food. I’ll show you some of it, and—Which was more of a token than it really helped because you cannot feed four million people who’s starving out of planes. And the Americans dropped boxes about this by this by this, and we knew right away—Because I was with the underground, we were called up, we were told to go to certain drop areas where they dropped that food, and we knew right away in these boxes where the cigarettes were. So we had a knife, we rush, and right away there was no cigarette left in any of these boxes because we had no cigarettes. Now they—I don’t know what they made them from. It was junk. (54:05) My—One of my professors in seminary �smoked what he called headache tobacco. It was homemade. I don’t know how it was made, but he said, “It gives me headache.” Interviewer: “Okay. Now when those drops got made, did the Germans try to get to the boxes before you did, or…?” There were—A piece of paper was glued to every box. If a German tries to interfere, he is considered to be a war criminal, and there were—was German—The Gestapo was walking around. They hardly did look at it because they knew that the game was over, and they were smarter than messing with it. And then these boxes were mainly brought to hospitals and maybe old age home. I don’t know. We were just told to pick them up and to put them somewhere and then leave them alone, but we did get—Because we were terribly underfed, of course, after that Hunger Winter. Yes, I did eat tulip bulbs and sugar beets. That is not just a story that’s making the rounds, but that’s the truth. And I have seen the Holocaust, so people who want to deny the Holocaust don’t know what they’re talking about. And then after a day work carrying all these boxes—And the British pulled in guinea bags. (56:05) That was dangerous because sometimes one of these bags would land on one of these poles and slide down, and I’ve seen a kid who was working there, too. And he was eating butter. I said, “Man, you’re nuts. You cannot afford it because your stomach won’t take it anymore.” Well, didn’t take very long, and he’s sitting somewhere in the corner and moaning and groaning. But we got a tin of bacon along home, and somehow my mother still had a couple of chickens. So we ate ham and eggs, and a day or so later, the Canadians came in because, you know, the Canadians followed the coast and liberated Holland. Most of it. The Americans did some because they were further east, and I was sitting on the side—by the side of the highway. I didn’t want to miss the arrival of the Canadians, but I couldn’t do anything else but sit. I was so sick. I was so sick because I ate too much of stuff that I shouldn’t have eaten. Oh, but it tasted so good. Interviewer: “All right. Now you had mentioned that you’d seen the Holocaust. What did you mean by that?” I’ve seen, first of all, Jews walking around with the Star of David—“Jew”—and I’ve seen trainloads of Jews being carried away to Poland. (58:03) Many Jews never returned, and I don’t know—No, I better not say this because I can’t vouch for it that it is true. The cruelties. But yeah, again, the total lack of any justice. “Why a person?” “Because he’s a Jew.” Interviewer: “Okay. Now, during the war, did you have any idea what was happening to them, or did you only learn that later?” I think we only heard of it later, but we had suspected it because German police was walking next to these trains that were on their way to Poland. And, you know, interesting thing. I told you about Dachau, and Dachau has been sanitized. You still can see it. Auschwitz is in Poland. I’ve never been there, but a very good friend of mine, John Witte—He has been there in Auschwitz. He said, “That’s where you see what a concentration camp is.” The Poles left it the way they found it instead of cleaning it up. �Interviewer: “All right. Now when you were arrested by the Germans, did they take you to Germany, or did you just stay in Holland for those four days?” No, I stayed in Holland for four days, and it was kind of providence. Yeah, of course, I strongly believe in providence, and—But when I was in a concentration camp—Then the last day I didn’t feel very well, and then, all of a sudden, my number was called. You know, you all had a number? (1:00:16) And I also kind of hit myself, and I don’t know where that piece of cotton is on which the number is stenciled. But, all of a sudden, I heard number so-and-so. I even forgot my number. “Number so-and-so, you have to come to the office.” I felt as fine as I ever did— mind over matter—and I went to the office. And they told me to go home. Interviewer: “How long did it take for things to get back to some kind of normal after the Allied Forces showed up?” Well, again, they first occupied a southern part. What we in Holland—We called below the rivers, and that was in the fall of—Yeah, the fall of ‘44, and then when the Germans surrendered, then the northern part came, which is the most heavily populated. And then very slowly on my sister—My brother was engaged. No, he was married already. His father-in-law was in city government, and he already—And he has—Was a baker. (1:02:11) Yeah, not just—I don’t know how many stores they had in the city, and he already had said, “Don’t you ever think that as soon as the war is over there will be enough again.” I remember that when the war was over—I mentioned in April they dropped that food, and then after liberation, trucks were waiting south of the rivers with food. And it took quite a while before you can supply enough for five million people, so slowly on there was—still was rationing after the war. And I remember that during the war, it was a virtue to escape that rationing, and the resistance sometimes would raid offices where the coupons were and distributed them. And during the war, we made use of that, and then after the war, I said—We said, “No. No, there is a real government again.” And, at first, it was a form of resistance against the Germans—against the Nazis—to try to get away from it, but as soon as the war is over, we shouldn’t do this anymore. (1:04:08) I remember once my dad had a—was minister in a place, and I think that place doesn’t exist anymore. It may well have been taken over by the Amsterdam Airport, which is these enormous runways for these flights across the ocean and to Tokyo. So I would not be amazed if that would be runway now, and—But during the war, I went there once by train and picked up a suitcase full of wheat and other stuff. Edibles. I came to that farm, and all the doors were locked, those close to Amsterdam. All the doors were locked. Finally, I went to the house part of the farm, and then I saw them sitting at— having dinner. And then they saw me and strongly apologized that I was not able to get in. I said, “Oh, I understand that.” Because people came there—“Can we have one potato?” He said, “Sorry. I can’t because in no time flat I’ll be out of potatoes.” But he supplied us, of course, and I carried a heavy suitcase of wheat. And I don’t know what all was in there, and it was a—Yeah, a real outcome for us. (1:06:02) Yeah, what did you ask again? Interviewer: “Well, I was asking sort of about the transition back to peacetime, and you talk about the rationing continued and—” �Yeah, that went slowly. Rationing also disappeared slowly, but to provide for a country that is— has no supplies left because much of it was stolen by the Germans, too—Like cows they took to Germany, and that has to be replenished. And that doesn’t work overnight. Interviewer: “Right. Okay. Now yourself. You said you went back to the seminary then after the war was over?” Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, and then did you complete a degree there?” Yeah. Degree. Interviewer: “And then after that, what did you do?” Then I got married and went into a parsonage close to Rotterdam, and, yeah, as I said, my dad— My wife was only child. And my dad—My father-in-law was in the grain business—import, export—so he didn’t have much to do during the last year or so of the war. Interviewer: “And then did you stay as a minister for a long time or just a short time or…?” I was—We were in Holland in a ministry in about a year and a half. And then one day I come home, and my wife said, “There’s a guy been here from Canada, and he’ll come back tomorrow.” He had—was on vacation in the Netherlands, and he heard a minister preach. (1:08:08) And he walked up to him, and he talked to him about Canada. And the guy said, “Sorry.” He said, “Two weeks ago, I was installed in this church.” He said, “I can’t very well think about it.” “Do you know somebody else?” Then he mentioned me because I had talked to him a couple of years earlier. You know, in those days, immigration was in the air. Holland had been locked up for five years, and then, all of a sudden, immigration started. And they went by the boatload. By the boatload and in troopships, so that was not the most comfortable way of shipping. And churches were opening up in Canada, Australia, New Zealand because people wanted to get away from the confinement. Yeah, and Holland is a small country. A farmer with a couple of sons—He only had one farm, and you couldn’t split it up. Although there is one very, very conservative place in Holland where they—where the farmer has two sons they just divide the land in a small, very—sometimes very narrow piece, and—Yeah, but someday you run out of it, and that’s one of the reason that immigration started also. (1:10:07) Interviewer: “All right, so then—You then met this person, and did he convince you to go to Canada?” No. Oh, yeah, he came to our house, and we talked about it. Most of us right away felt, “Hey. That is something.” And then a bit later—couple of weeks later—a fat letter came in the mail from Canada, and we said right away, “That’s a call letter.” And yeah. Then we accepted that call and went to Canada. �Interviewer: “Okay, and where in Canada did you go?” We went to Essex, Ontario. That’s right across—It’s—Windsor was part of my parish, and then we stayed there for a couple of years. Six years. Then we went to London, Ontario, and from there we got a call to Grand Rapids. And we—And that’s the church where we—from which we retired. Interviewer: “Okay, and which church was that?” East Paris on East Paris Avenue here in town. Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now if you look back on that whole experience during the wartime and when the Germans were there and so forth, are there particular things that you think you learned from it or lessons that came out of that or things that maybe affected the way you view the world?” (1:12:00) You know, there is one hymn. “He leadeth me by His own hand. He leadeth me. His faithful follower I will be, for by His hand He leadeth me.” And we—All through our life, we’ve experienced that in so many different ways. The way we met. A lot of people called she a coincidence. I attended a student conference in Switzerland as a delegate from our student body. I was a member of the student senate, and then afterwards—It was in ‘46. Afterwards, we were invited by families in Switzerland to stay there sometime, and I went there with another Hollander. And, you know, Switzerland has not been touched by the war, and these people had heard about the Hunger Winter. And they really fed us, and then, at the given moment, I said, “I’m going home.” And that Swiss lady was kind of upset, but [?] “Is it not good enough here?” I said, “Yes, it is, but I’m going.” And I come home in my room in the seminary town, and I find a note there that I had to attend another conference—a student conference—in Holland. (1:14:04) So I went, and my dad said, “What are you? A student or an eternal conference goer?” But I went anyways, and there I met—saw two girls walking there. And I said, “Hey. That girl is mine,” and she still is. You see these flowers around here? We just celebrated our sixtieth anniversary, and we have not regretted it. Oh, sometimes I’m sure she says to herself, “I could wring his neck,” but she’s never done it yet. I don’t think she ever even came close to it. Interviewer: “All right. Okay. Is there anything else you’d like to add to the story here before we close out the interview?” Like I said, “He leadeth me.” The way we met, the way we went to Canada, all through, and that’s also—I’m almost eighty-nine next month. Next month too old to be eighty-nine. My wife is eighty-seven, and that always has given us strength because we know that you won’t be there that long anymore. But also then, when we depart from this world, “He leadeth me. By His own hand He leadeth me.” And that gives us joy, peace, satisfaction, and yeah. Interviewer: “I think that makes a pretty good way to close an interview, so thank you very much for taking the time to talk to us today.” Good. (1:16:17) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bauma, Gerard (Interview transcript and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bauma, Gerard Description An account of the resource Gerry Bauma lived in the Netherlands during World War II. As a seminary student, he had the opportunity to live in the times without having to go into forced labor as many of his friends did, although he was at one point caught up in a German sweep and sent to a forced labor camp, where he stayed until the seminary arranged for him to be released. He also observed the initial German attempt to capture the Hague by air, and after the surrender took his bike up to Rotterdam to inspect the bomb damage. He got a radio during the war, and passed along things he learned to a friend who ran an underground newspaper. He survived the "Hunger Winter" of 1944-45, and emigrated to Canada shortly after the war. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-02-08 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BaumaG1076V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f71423c8b8168094d0c4f4bd3c5a7e31.m4v 2ad403812d25ea5eceaed791ed1e11a2 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/120e5ceba7b461f296cf6dc2979febca.pdf 3c998bc76a61a5af68febe0f072e0390 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project Edwin Baumann World War II 1 hour 4 minutes 11 seconds (00:00:16) Early Life -Born in Stockton, California on June 19, 1923 -Started school at five and a half years old in San Francisco -Immediately went into the first grade -When he was seven years old his parents divorced and he moved to Sonoma, California -Lived with his grandparents and an uncle on their farm -Family was poor during the Great Depression (00:01:16) Start of the War -He was eighteen years old when Pearl Harbor was attacked -Sister heard the news at a neighborhood store and told him -He didn't believe her until he heard the radio report for himself -Believed that a war with Japan would only last a couple weeks -Uncle became an air raid warden -Edwin assisted his uncle -There were a few air raids that proved to be false -When they did happen he helped his uncle tell the farmers to turn off their lights -Believed that Japan was going to invade California (00:02:50) Enlisting in the Army Air Force -Wanted to enlist and become a pilot in the Army Air Force -Required two years of college to be a pilot though -Army dropped that requirement a few years after Pearl Harbor -He went to Hamilton Army Airfield, California and to enlist as an aviation cadet -Passed the colorblindness test and the blood pressure test -Sent home to wait for orders -Enlisted in April 1942 (00:04:05) Basic Training -Called up for duty in August 1942 -At the time he was aware of the fighting in Europe and Asia in the summer of 1942 -Knew classmates from school that had joined the military and were fighting -Received a letter to report to San Francisco -Took a ferry from San Francisco to Oakland and boarded a train bound for Texas -Took four days to get to Texas -Stopped at a town in Colorado -Travelled in a "sleeper" car and slept in bunks -Arrived at the San Antonio Aviation Cadet Center -Still in civilian clothes �-First days of training were spent whitewashing stones and picking up cigarette butts -He was the first one in his tent to get a uniform because his civilian shoes wore out -Hurricane hit the area -They were ordered to collapse their tents and sit on them -After that their tent leaked -While cleaning they found a piece of paper with cadet test scores on it -His group looked at it until a captain yelled at all of them to get back to work -From that point on none of the men worked too hard -Eventually got assigned to a barracks -Marched to the mess hall for breakfast and marched to the mess hall for dinner -Food was terrible -An older sergeant organized a mutiny over the food -They refused to march to the mess hall until food improved -Higher ranking officer ordered them to -Sergeant was called before the colonel because of the protest -The sergeant and colonel had been friends for many years -Colonel respected the sergeant -Made him commandant of the cadets -Food didn't improve (00:10:38) Flight Training -Edwin's next assignment was Hicks Field, Texas for Primary Flight Training -He did well in Primary Flight Training and had a good instructor -Got in trouble in Primary for not saluting an officer -Watched for any other mistakes after that -Flew PT-19s in Primary -Flew BT-13s in Basic Flight Training -The commandant at Hicks Field was a World War I veteran pilot that liked all of the cadets -Let them get away with things that they shouldn't have -Eventually made the choice to be a bomber pilot as opposed to a fighter pilot -Sent to Twin Engine School where he flew the Cessna AT-17 -Happiest day of his life (at the time) was when he solo flew for the first time -Remembers flying back to the base in the rain and didn't care -Had a good instructor in Twin Engine School -In Twin Engine School always flew with another cadet -Alternated between being the pilot and being the co-pilot -Did cross-country flights and low-level flights in Twin Engine School -Flying came naturally to him -Remembers one night flight in Twin Engine School when the engines cut out -Only eight hundred feet off the ground when it happened -He had accidentally turned off the cross feed valve -Allowed gas to flow between the two engines -Immediately turned it back on which turned the engines back on -Each phase of flight training lasted nine weeks -Took Advanced Flight Training in Lubbock, Texas -One of his old flight instructors and the instructors wife attended Edwin's graduation �-Instructors wife pinned Edwin's pilot wings on him -Appreciated their attendance -Tremendous sense of accomplishmennt -Treated like royalty -Taken to the ceremony in a police squad car (00:19:46) B-24 Training -Went up to Washington -Stayed there for a week -Originally supposed to be on a B-17 crew -Too many pilots and not enough B-17s -He was sent to Boise, Idaho from Washington to be a co-pilot on a B-24 -Joined a B-24 and went to Pocatello, Idaho for training -Pilot didn't like flying so he let Edwin do most of the flying -He got about sixty hours of flight time as a co-pilot -Sent back to Boise for Transition Training to become a pilot in a B-24 -Completed that training -Had no idea whether he would wind up in the European Theatre or the Pacific Theatre (00:21:47) Training Accident -He was assigned to a B-24 crew as a pilot and sent to Mountain Home Air Base, Idaho -Stationed there for about three weeks -On August 28, 1943 he and his crew went on an air-ground training mission -Opportunity for the gunners to get target practice -Had a fire in the nose of the bomber -No fire extinguisher -Nose gunner's machine gun caused a fire in the insulation -They braced for crash landing and he thought he was going to die -Accpeted it and wanted it to happen fast -The next thing he remembers is being on top of the bomber and the crew is running away -His left arm was injured -Bombardier was badly burned -Built a fire at night with the other survivors -Another bomber dropped medical kits for them -Next morning the ground crew evacuated them -He spent eight days in the hospital for his arm -Bombardier was evacuated to a hospital in Salt Lake City and died two weeks later -One of the gunners died in the bomber -Instructor died in the crash -Ball turret had to be grounded because he refused to fly again -He continued training with the survivors and the replacements (00:28:05) Joining the 461st Bombardment Group -Joined the 461st Bombardment Group at Hammer Field in Fresno, California -Colonel insisted on them learning how to do good formation flying -Extremely useful when flying bombing missions -He did well with formation flying �(00:30:30) Deployment to Europe -In January 1944 they went to Hamilton Field, California to pick up their B-24 -Flew to Palm Springs, California to Midland, Texas to Memphis to West Palm Beach, Florida -Originally thought they'd be going to the Pacific Theatre -Germans knew they were coming -Remembers hearing a German radio broadcast welcoming the 461st and taunting them -Flew down to the Caribbean, over to Dakar, Senegal then north to Marrakesh, Morocco -Flew over to Tunis and stayed there for two weeks getting additional training (00:32:08) Arrival in Italy -Flew up to Toretto Field, Italy -Raining when they arrived -Had to wait for the weather to clear before they started flying missions -Quartered in tents -Officers and enlisted men were kept in separate tents -Officers and enlisted men had separate mess halls (00:33:38) Flying Missions -First mission was a "milk run" -Bombing a rail yard in Yugoslavia -No flak and no fighters -Still lost two bombers due to a mid-air collision -Worst mission was his third mission -Bombing run over Budapest, Hungary -Germans attacked with Me-110s firing rockets into the B-24 formation -He watched a rocket hit a B-24 that rolled into another B-24 -Later met some survivors from those bombers -They witnessed the British bombing of Budapest -Tightened up their formation to protect each other from the German planes -So close that spent machine gun shells were hitting his bomber -Lost a wind panes in the cockpit because of that -Got briefed before each mission -Hated going to places like Ploesti and Budapest -Told what route they'd take, weather conditions, and expected resistance -Information wasn't always accurate -After briefing they went to the bombers and took off -Flew out twenty miles then got into formation -Did saturation bombing -When the lead bomber dropped its bombs the rest of the bombers followed suit -Knew they were targeting German resources and supplies -Mostly oil fields and rail yards -Flew two missions over Ploesti -On the first mission they encountered a lot of resistance -Didn't get hit -Ran into a massive amount of flak �-Dropped their bombs as fast as they could and got out -Fear didn't set in until they were back at the base -Dreaded the next mission -During the mission he focused on getting the job done, couldn't focus on the fear -Always lost at least one bomber during a mission -Didn't get emotional about it, couldn't afford to get emotional (00:46:06) Shot Down -Second mission over Ploesti didn't seem as bad -Things were fine until they dropped their bombs -Bomb bay filled up with gas -Had to wait for the fuel to drain out of the bomb bay -Lost engine one and fell behind the formation -Fortunately, they didn't get attacked by bombers -They started taking flak over Yugoslavia -A piece of flak hit the window closest to him and his face got peppered with shrapnel -They made it to the Yugoslavian coast then decided to abandon the bomber -Bailed out at 13,000 feet -The entire crew made it out okay -Only injury was the bombardier spraining his ankle on the landing -They all landed on an island off the coast of Yugoslavia -Edwin landed in a vineyard -Area was occupied by German troops (00:51:03) Captured -He started walking toward where the other crewmen landed -En route got captured by Austrian soldiers -One of the enlisted men had already been captured by the Austrians -Austrians were friendly, young, and gave them water -Rest of the crew was captured and they were reunited as prisoners of war -Austrians brought them to a small town on the island -A German doctor gave Edwin a tetanus shot because of the shrapnel -Taken to the mainland by ferry and put in a civilian jail -Next day they marched twenty miles -Bombardier was put on a mule because of his ankle -Edwin wasn't feeling good of the shot -An Italian civilian got him some tea from a nearby house to settle his stomach -They were in German custody -Germans were grufff, but not threatening -Taken to a small coastal town -Placed on a mining barge and sailed up the Mostar River to the city of Mostar -Boarded a train in Mostar -Guarded by three young German soldiers that were friendly -Traveled by train to Sarajevo and boarded another train -Taken to a prisoner of war camp in Belgrade -A few days later D-Day happened �-A German officer spoke to Edwin about it -Kept there for five days -British and Americans bombed Belgrade while they were there -Older Yugoslavian women gave them Red Cross parcels -He gave some of his chocolate to a teenage girl -They all gave some of their chocolate to the older Yugoslavian women (01:02:28) Reflections on Service Pt. 1 -Volunteered because he wanted to serve his country -Didn't feel forced to serve -Doesn't regret his service -Got a lot out of it (01:03:10) Life after the War -Went to college on the GI Bill -Graduated with a degree in engineering -Worked as an aerospace engineer for thirty seven years (01:03:27) Reflections on Service Pt. 2 -Service was good to him -Prisoner of war experience definitely had an impact on him -Prisoner for eleven months and he hated every minute of it -Felt like he wasted an entire year of his life -Made him see the value of freedom when he was deprived of it � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_BaumannE1794V Title A name given to the resource Baumann, Edwin (Interview outline and video), 2005 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-10-20 Description An account of the resource Edwin Baumann was born on June 19, 1923 in Stockton, California. In April 1942 he enlisted in the Army Air Force to become a pilot and began training in August 1942. He received training at San Antonio Aviation Cadet Center, Texas then went on to train at Hicks Field, Texas and Lubbock, Texas, graduating with the ability to fly twin engine aircraft. He was trained with a B-24 crew in Mountain Home Air Base, Idaho and survived a crash there before being assigned to the 461st Bombardment Group at Hammer Field, California. In January 1944 he and his crew were deployed to the European Theatre and were stationed at Toretto Field, Italy. He flew bombing missions over Yugoslavia, Romania, and Hungary and got shot down on a bombing raid on Ploesti in May 1944. He was captured in Yugoslavia and became a prisoner of war for eleven months placing his liberation as sometime in April 1945. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Baumann, Edwin Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Forces Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/x-m4v application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/87f9f709762b06e5b8c39f0fb8487e7e.mp4 1abcbc02dd4ca54e5711968b8b535dfa https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f8a7c7451ee4fe9215968d2234e1bea9.pdf 8eab3cbbe6004f009ad1fd5aee69e96d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University All American Girls Professional Baseball League Veterans History Project Interviewee’s Name: Jacqueline Baumgart Length of Interview: (01:28:17) Interviewed by: Frank Boring, Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Transcribed by: Joan Raymer February 20, 2010 Interviewer: “What was your early childhood like?” Hard. Interviewer: “In what way?” It was very hard. We were eight and I was the youngest of eight and I did not have a father, so the whole time during the depression was very, very difficult. Interviewer: “What did your mother do to support you?” She did washing clothes, ironing clothes, house cleaning. That’s what she knew how to do and in those days—women, that’s pretty much what they did with a fifth grade education. Interviewer: “What was school like before high school?” 1:38 Before high school, I got into trouble a lot because I wanted to play ball and I wanted to kick the ball and play ball and do what all the boys were doing. I grew up with boys, brothers, and so I tagged along, a few feet behind, but I tagged along. We played a lot of softball and scrub games and that’s how I learned how to play and whenever they didn’t have enough players, they let me play. 2:17 I was little, I was very, very little and when they let me play, they put me in the outfield because they didn’t have to shag the ball and then I learned how to throw very long and hard because I was throwing the ball back in and that’s how I really learned how. By playing with the boys, it gave me an opportunity to develop physically, because, like I said, I was very, very small. 2:57 Interviewer: “The town you grew up in, was it a very big town or was it a small town?” It was a small town. Waukegan is located between Milwaukee and Chicago and very near there was the Great Lakes Training Center and not too far from there was Fort Sheridan and so, it was just a small town and in fact very close to Kenosha, where I wound up playing and about the same size. 3:30 Interviewer: “How about high school, how was high school for you?” High school was very, very interesting. I moved to Milwaukee in March of 1942. 1 �Interviewer: “Your whole family?” No, I had a sister living in Milwaukee and two of my brothers went into the service and mother had received a widow’s pension and that kind of decreased a little bit when they went into service, so I moved to Milwaukee to live with a sister and from there, which was a great thing because that helped me develop differently than what I would have in Waukegan. I had playgrounds to play on. 4:16 You couldn’t play in the schools in competition, but we could play on the playgrounds in the summer and I fortunately—the alley behind the house had a common fence, with the alley and the playground and so when my sister asked me to take the garbage out, I said “sure”, because I took the garbage out and I was gone. That’s how I started and there were two gentlemen that had worked with the Milwaukee recreation department and the playgrounds had directors and one was Bunny Brief and one was Jack Chlossa, both professional ball players, because we were going from playground to playground, and they said, “I think we’ll take you out to West Allis”, which is a suburb, because they had a fast pitch softball league there. They took me out there and I got on the team right away— Interviewer: “Now by team—is this a girls team?” 5:25 A girls team. I finally found that I was good at something, because you don’t know, you’re always playing with the boys and it’s a different kind of competition when you do that. The boys say that you are only a girl and I had to live through that and that develops a certain kind of tenacity in you and so when I went to West Allis, they had about eight softball teams, fast pitch, and the first year that I was there, we won the state championship. My mother came into town and it was the first and only game that she saw was winning, winning my first championship. 6:17 One to nothing on a balk. That’s the kind of close competitive games that I was learning all the while. Interviewer: “Now, after the game, what did your mother have to say?” Not too much, she really—it was indifferent to her, she didn’t really know anything about sports, particularly women playing sport, and she just thought it was nice, everybody treated me nice, so that was her main important thought. She didn’t live with us in Milwaukee; she went back to Waukegan and was living there. 7:01 Interviewer: “What position were you playing by this time?” A catcher. Interviewer: “Were you always a catcher?” No, I was always everything and that’s how I grew up, to play every position. I played every position and I actually became a catcher during the wintertime when we were playing inside a gym with a different kind of ball—it was a little bit larger ball than a softball, it had an out seam to it and a little softer, I mean it wasn’t had at all and I was just playing in the outfield, but they all knew that I wanted to play and that I could play 2 �anywhere. At one point a pitcher wasn’t doing too good, so the catcher became the pitcher and then they said, “Well, who wants to catch?” All eyes came this was, I mean I didn’t have to say much of anything, so I went into catch, well, I dropped the first foul ball, “tip’ you know, and I realized that I had to keep my eyes open because you flinch and that’s an automatic response and I said, “I have to keep my eyes open”. 8:20 By the end of the game there was a foul ball and I caught it and from then on, I was a catcher. Those are the kinds of things that happen that lead you in a direction. Coming to Milwaukee, doing something like that as a catcher, staying a catcher, going out to West Allis, being pointed the way; it has an awful lot of importance for my development. 8:49 Interviewer: “Now how old were you at this time? This was still high school?” I was in—yes; I was about fifteen and a half, sixteen, something like that. Interviewer: “So you’re going to high school, you’re playing ball with this group? What happened next? Did you graduate from high school?” I graduated from high school and then I was working and playing out in WestAllis, softball, and we began to start playing baseball and we were playing in West Milwaukee, which is between West Milwaukee and West Allis in terms of property lines and during that time I was scouted for the All American Girls Baseball League. 9:54 Interviewer: “Did you know anything about this group prior to that?” I knew a little bit because some had started to come back from playing professional ball and we had to wait a year or two before you could play amateur again. I knew that they had played and I knew that Milwaukee had had a team. I became a knotholer because we didn’t have any money, nobody had any money and I was a catcher and another lady, Edna Shear, lived in Cedarburg another suburb and we both were scouted. I didn’t know, we didn’t know we were scouted and I got a card in the wintertime, close to winter, and it said to go to someplace in Pennsylvania or Newark, New Jersey. 10:53 I didn’t know that Edna had received a card and her card said Chicago was where she was supposed to go. Well, I wanted to play, so I borrowed some money, took a train and went to Newark, New Jersey all by myself and my world wasn’t any larger than from Waukegan to Milwaukee, which is about forty-five minutes away. 11:22 Interviewer: “Now, just previous to that, you’re still living with your sister.” Yes. Interviewer: “So, did you talk it over with her at all? Did you have anybody that you talked about going to New Jersey?” No, I just went. I borrowed money from a sister that was living in Waukegan and she was married to a dentist, so I figured they had a little bit of money and sure enough it was either fifty or sixty dollars that I borrowed. To go. 11:51 3 �Interviewer: “So you arrive in New Jersey, what was your first impression of New Jersey?” Big, huge—where do I put my foot next? Sounds are so different, very, very different. Speaking the English language was different—in “New Joyzee” you know, that was a little bit different, but I was met at the train by I think it was three, of the ball players and they were part of the recruiting and all of that. They took me to a gym, an inside gym, just like the movie and I tried out, I had my glove, a catche’rs glove, and we went up against the wall and then we went one by one and there was a black lady sitting next to me and she didn’t have a glove, so she asked if she could use my glove and I said, “ yes, but it’s a catchers glove”, and she said, “that’s ok”, so she went and she came back and I went and the three of them took me out to dinner after that because I was staying in a private home. 13:17 Interviewer: “The three originals that picked you up at the railroad station?” Yes. They were the only contacts that I had. They asked me, “was that your glove or her glove?” I said, “it was my glove”, and then they said, “Oh, we don’t do that”. That was my first introduction into how people felt about other people, because where I grew up in Waukegan, we were pretty much a mixed group and for me there wasn’t any kind of distinction when you were going to play ball or whatever, so that was very upsetting for me. 14:05 Interviewer: “In that particular gym, you mentioned yourself and then there was a black woman there too, were there other women there trying out? About how many?” There were probably twelve to fifteen or something like that. Interviewer: “But there was actually one black woman in there?” Yes, one black woman. Interviewer: “Wow, do you know what ever happened to her?” No. Interviewer: “After you had the dinner with the three, you went back to the host home and you stayed overnight, what happened next?” I just went to the train again and came back. One of the things that I just very well remember was going through the oil city in Pennsylvania—you could smell it—it’s a whole new smell, everything was so new and so different. 15:05 When you’re by yourself, you learn how to—what to accept and what not too. I’m a survivor of a lot of things and was attuned to a lot of things going on and very much a real experience. For one to grow up at that age, very impressionable and I take everything in, like you learn how to steal second or something. 4 �Interviewer: “Once you got back home to Milwaukee, was there another communication of some kind?” 15:57 Yes, before spring training I got another card and it said to go to South Bend, Indiana and I met about sixty girls there and we had a spring training. Spring training wasn’t easy it was very hard. Interviewer: “Tell us, first of all keep in mind, you were there and we weren’t, so I kind of want to visualize your arriving there were sixty girls there. Give us—take us there to spring training.” 16:29 Spring training—early in the morning and we would go until noon, we had a light lunch and only because I was thin, if they had a little extra couple of cups of ice cream they would say, “here you need this”, and we had a little bit of rest period because we ate and then it was all afternoon again until four o’clock, we never let up. We didn’t play an actual game, but it was like an infield practice. You went to a position or you said you wanted to go and you played that however the manager wanted it to go, because it wasn’t a game, it was—he was almost actually teaching us. He wanted to know what we really knew and how we would think and respond to the ball and other players and to managing, how we would respond to directions. 17:40 After that I was told to go to Racine to meet up with Rockford. Interviewer: “So, at spring training—I know a lot of these answers, but I still want to get it for the record. The spring training, you did not have a team yet, you were not on a team yet?” Not yet, no. Interviewer: “So the girls were all playing different positions to see which ones they could play well or not well and then a decision was made as to what team you’re going to play on?” Right. Interviewer: “What were you wearing during spring training?” 18:10 Just jeans and shorts depending on how warm it was. Interviewer: “But it wasn’t uniforms, just whatever you brought to play is what you wore?” Right. Interviewer: “So the spring training was completed and they let you know that you were now a?” I went to Rockford—actually Rockford was in Racine and so that’s where I went and I was there for a week and I was under the tutelage of Bill Allington, I learned more from him in one week than I did in all the time before. As we look back at it now it has to do with—we came with the skills and the professional men managers helped us become 5 �professionals. A lot of little things that you never think of, if you get into bad habits naturally in terms of batting and throwing. 19:14 Interviewer: “Give me an example of maybe one of the ones that you learned. You say that you learned more in that week, well, give me an idea, what did you learn?” One in particular, because I was a catcher and we would have an infield practice and all of a sudden he threw the ball down on the ground and I took that to be a bunt, which it was, so I hopped right after it I picked it up and I went like this and then I let it go and he did it again and I did the same thing and he said, “now what did you do that for?” I said, “What do you mean?” He said, “you put your hand into the glove and then you throw the ball. That runner has got a whole step and a half on you.” You don’t think about those things when you’re just playing and learning a little bit, just a natural by osmosis thinking The managers we had playing fast pitch were good managers, but they weren’t teaching us anything. 20:18 They just taught us about some things as the game moved along. You really weren’t learning like we learned in the professional league and of course I listened. I did that all my life was to watch and listen and from that I learned an awful lot. Now the other thing was in hitting, I stood too far in the back and he said, “you got to move up a little bit and choke up a little bit. You got to be brave and go all the way down to the bottom of the bat. Just choke up a little bit because then you have more balance at the end of the bat. We have to learn to hit and bat according to our bodies what we can do and what we can’t do it isn’t all show. If you want to play, you play, you don’t act up.” 21:18 Interviewer: “Good advice” It is and he didn’t mean it in the sense of show off, he meant it in the sense of getting out of bad habits. Interviewer: “Let me ask you a question and this may sound like an unfair question and you don’t have an answer for it, but he’s a professional male baseball player and he’s working with you as a very young girl. Did you get any sense that he was treating you like a girl or treating you like a baseball player?” Like a baseball player, because he knew his positions as a manager and what it probably might have been like for him when he started out being a professional. It’s a transitional period and he knew how to do that. He also knew that you had to learn not only how to play, but the intricacies of the game, the whole game, the whole thing, whether you were catcher or first baseman, pitcher or an outfielder, you learned it all, everything that’s going on because three things, 1 is the ball, naturally, there is no play without the ball, 2nd is accuracy, if you’re going to play, you don’t just throw, you concentrate, not too hard, but you concentrate on where you’re going to throw that ball and the 3rd one is to think where you’re going to throw that ball, when are you going to throw the ball and to be ready to receive. 23:02 For him those were the three most important things. They are very, very basic, they don’t get anymore basic than that, and it will take you a long way. The other thing he pointed out was that you are on the field playing and the manager is watching all of this and the manager doesn’t miss a trick and so if you think you’re going 6 �to fluff off, it doesn’t work because the manager sees what you are doing and those are some of the little things that make you a professional ball player. 23:51 Interviewer: “Once the spring training was over with and you were chosen to be on the team, what was the process of getting your uniform and do you remember what it was like to see your uniform for the first time?” After that I was sent to Chicago, excuse me, the northern part of Chicago, and most of the girls I met in South Bend were there. They were choosing thirty girls to make up two teams, so that means that there are fifteen players on a team, that’s all we had. I was chosen as a Springfield Sally and only because we had the uniforms. They tried a team in Springfield and it didn’t work and the other team was called the Chicago Colleens because Chicago had a professional team. It wasn’t baseball, it was fast pitch softball and they set-up a perimeter and around that perimeter, we couldn’t play anywhere near there because it was an infringement, so they put us on a bus, thirty of us girls, the two women chaperones managers, a man manager, sometimes the business manager, and sent us all east of the Mississippi and into Canada. 25:28 I probably was one of the older ones and another Cuban girl was, I think, about twenty-four. I think I was going on twenty-one or something like that, but the others were all younger. What it was—it was a traveling team to gain experience playing professional baseball. In the towns that we played, they had charities that they gave money to and then to have tryouts. Every time we went someplace, there were tryouts and when we came back to Cleveland, I think it was, we just went home. 26:26 Interviewer: “So it was two teams of fifteen, traveling and playing each other?” Yes. Everyplace you were just playing each other, playing each other. You were actually getting back on the bus together, so you had the camaraderie of being on a team, but you would separate out and play each other?” Yes. That’s a learning process, a growing process because we were from all over the United States and Cuba. The whole experience is more than an experience. That’s how I look at it, it became a way of life because you ate baseball and played baseball, slept baseball, we went from one town to the next town and very seldom were we two nights in the same town. 27:30 We never read the write-ups you know. Interviewer: “Give me an idea, I know this might sound dull, but what’s the routine? You get up in the morning, you get on the bus, you go—walk us through a typical day when you go on one of those excursions and how it was.” Well, you know it depended on how late we got in from one town to the other, especially going in and through the mountains. Sometimes we would be like six in the morning coming in, so we went to bed. I went to bed early because I needed my eight hours. We would get up, we ate together in different restaurants and places and we then would rest because we couldn’t eat sooner than two hours before we were going to play, so that was kind of a restful time, lounging time, and that was a time when we weren’t in close proximities in what we were doing and we maybe went to a movie or something and 7 �chose different things. 28:53 We would then get dressed and ready to go onto the bus and the bus would take us to the ball park and then we would work out and I mean work out, and then play a game and shower, find a place to eat, travel, depending on how far we had to go, and the next day the same thing. 29:20 There was sometimes a little long time in a city depending on how far it was and what time was and how long it took to get there. We still had to take care of our own clothes. Interviewer: “Wash your own clothes and stuff, wow.” We would go to a Laundromat, but not the uniform. Interviewer: “How did the uniform get cleaned?” I don’t know--the managers took care of that. They took it to a Laundromat or where ever they could. 29:50 Interviewer: “What were the fans like?” Very good. In the towns that we were in, they had either a double A or a triple A team and the diamonds that we played on were good, which was a nice thing. Interviewer: “You were obviously getting locals that came out to see the teams. Did you have a lot of girls, women or men or was it more mixed?” It was mixed, more men than what they might have now because it wasn’t as popular and we were sort of an entertainment or a show of some kind and people wanted to see what we were all about. There was advance publicity and quite often we had more fans then the home team that played there because we were playing when they were out of town. 30:55 We would hear that and when we made a good play we were rewarded with—it was like a whole surprise for them to see that because we were very good and we came with the skills and we were naturals. We also exhibited the joy that we had in playing even though we played the same team all the time; we were still growing and learning. 31:30 Interviewer: “The two teams were they exactly the same or did you switch over and play catcher for one and then play catcher for another or was it always the same group playing against the same team?” Yes. Interviewer: “That makes sense, so once that was over with and you went back to Milwaukee, then what happened? What was the next stop in all of this?” I got a card. I got another card because all thirty of us were put in the “pot” so to speak and the teams told—this one and that one, and I was asked to go to Kalamazoo, Michigan, so I want to spring training there and Kenosha didn’t have a catcher at that time, so I was catching for Kenosha even though I belonged to Kalamazoo and after spring training Kenosha bought my contract, whatever that was, because when I signed the contract it was blank. You never knew what you were getting or anything else, you just signed the contract and you were going to play ball. 32:39 8 �Interviewer: “Now if you’re playing for two different teams, what was the uniform?” The same uniform except in a sense it was Kalamazoo and I’m trying to remember that part of it because I don’t remember it being any different. When I went to Kenosha, I had their regular uniform. Interviewer: “Now, on the touring team with the thirty of you, you were already a professional baseball player, but now with the new team, this is now the American— the league, so this is different, did you have any sense of going from this to this or were you just going to keep playing baseball?” 33:45 There was a little bit of that yes, because you’re coming into an already—a team that is in place, so there’s a lot of difference coming to a team than what we did, because we were all new to each other in terms of what we were going to do and this team was already in place. They already had their own ways of what they were doing and who they get along with, where they go and now we have a home place and then we have on the road, so your monies are different, you take care of your own stuff when you’re at home and on the road you get a per dium I call it. 34:35 We all got pretty much the same for that. Interviewer: “Well, as the newcomer into this team, how did you get along?” Quietly. Quietly in a sense of interaction. More quiet—you have a different manager, everybody has their own style, how they do things and I had to learn all that. It wasn’t too hard to learn it, but you had to learn the differences. Some managers manage a lot and some managers manage a little and they kind of let you play. It was about the same thing with the players because they’re older, not much, but they had been playing, so they have a couple of years under their belt and you’re a “rookie”, you’re a “rookie”. I still had to carry the bats and things. From my own growing up and my formative years, I learned how to understand where my place is wherever I am and whomever I’m with. 36:11 That part wasn’t too hard, I could read that and I knew that because I’m a survivor. You do make friends in the sense of hanging with some more than you do others and I think there were three or four “rookies” on the team in Kenosha, so we kind of hung together for a while. Interviewer: “Was there a point and I know this is kind of a difficult question because it’s so specific, you’re a “rookie”, was there a moment, was there a period of time when you felt like you were no longer a “rookie” and whatever you were doing the went, “oh, she’s good”? 37:05 I got a hit—see, I was a straight away hitter, I wasn’t a long distance hitter, partly because of my weight and you’re the catcher so you bat eighth and I smacked one over the second baseman’s head, because we were playing baseball rules now, we’re a bigger diamond, we’re not on the softball diamond and I got to first base and I said, “It’s about time”, and I remember it so distinctly and it’s a great, great feeling to do that. I didn’t 9 �throw anybody out at second, but I was pretty close a couple of times and that is a great moral builder for me anyway. 38:00 Interviewer: “You felt different, but did you notice a difference also from the other players that you were treated a little bit differently?” Sure, because we’re a team and that’s how you become a team is learning to play together and giving lots of kudos when they’re necessary and I never experienced any player getting down on a another player like, “what did you do that for?” You were the one that made the mistake, so there was none of that and most managers wouldn’t allow that. We learned how to be a team by practice and you practiced as hard as you played, you didn’t sluff-off. 39:04 For me as a catcher, one of the most marvelous things that can happen and the joy really comes out, is when we have infield practice and you “around the horn” as we called it, after a certain ply and then you “zip” to first, second, third, back, back down to second for the shortstop and over to first or the opposite, because when we played we ‘zipped” the ball, we didn’t just throw, we “zipped” it. 39:37 Interviewer: “Now by this time the charm school and all that had been over with or did you have to do that too?” No, I didn’t have to do that. Interviewer: “You knew about it or you heard about it though?” Yes, I heard a lot bout it. Interviewer: “What do you mean, you heard a lot about it?” Well, they would tell little stories about having to walk down steps with a book on your head and they thought how ridiculous. Well, how do you walk down the steps with a book on your head and a “Charlie horse”? It’s bad enough with just the book on your head. If you had a sore leg or something then—and the next time you walk down steps what are you looking at? You look down like this and you can’t keep a book on your head when you do that. That usually pretty much what they talked about and the etiquette part. They didn’t like—I eat like I eat like I eat and there were a lot of jokes about different things and we took it all in and it’s a part of the camaraderie, we had great camaraderie and we still do. 41:00 Interviewer: “Tell me about strawberries.” I didn’t do too much sliding because of my position in the batting order, but I did have some when I got on, they weren’t really strawberries, they were more or less things that—you know when somebody’s coming into home and sliding in home, we didn’t go head first, we had hook slides, so you had to—I learned from Mr. Allington, I learned because I was—I didn’t want to get bowled over, so what he taught me was to give him just a little corner and to turn sideways so that I don’t have the full force and you turn sideways because then you’re in a position to move your legs and go wherever you need to go after the ball, but there still were collisions and things like that because you don’t 10 �know where the balls coming from when you begin and I did get knocked over one time in pro, but it was just the nature of the game. 42:38 Very much how the play happened, developed and happened. There was nothing like foul play or anything like that; we purposely didn’t do those things. Interviewer: “What did you think of the uniform?” I’ll have to tell you, the first time I put that uniform on, I cried because what flooded in my mind was of this little kid at home playing with the boys and here I am—I get teary eyed just thinking about it because it was never a dream to become a professional ball player, the dream was to survive, the dream was to do the best you can in whatever you do—lit was like winning a game, when you win—oh, that’s great. This was my own kind of winning and I kind of stood there for a little bit after I was dressed and I said, “Ah, this is it, this is it”, and I never forgot that. 44:07 Interviewer: “So the actual design and all that didn’t bother you?” It did to some degree; it did all of us to some degree because we never played in a skirt fashion. It was all one piece, but it was a skirt on the bottom, there were no legs to go into, but you had to learn how to play with it, especially some of the pitchers when they would begin throwing side arm, it just gets in the way, so each one developed a way in which to fix their uniform either by shortening it a little bit. I had two tucks here and two tucks in the back so that it would fit comfortably. 45:04 They weren’t tight fitting at all because we didn’t like that and we didn’t want that at all. It was heavy, it was like heavy denim and very warm in the summer, in the hot summer, it was very, very warm. Interviewer: “You had talked about the fan of the traveling team, can you recall the fans of the team when you went pro?” 45:34 Yes, because there were fans that came all the time and there were some fans that came once in a while and some of the fans treated some of the ball players very well. A little money under the table or whatever, invited over to their houses for picnics and stuff like that if time provided for that, but we didn’t have too much time for that, but they were very, very good to us. The regulars were very good to us. 46:16 Interviewer: “You mentioned earlier about the traveling team, that it was a mixture of men and women and things, the professional team you played for, where the fans, the majority of them, men or women or what?” A few more women because we were in one place and they get to know you and they have favorites like any team does have favorites and we played excellent baseball. We weren’t just entertainment as we were in the beginning, we still were, but not to the extent, we did what the Brewers do today, but not to that extent. 47:13 Interviewer: “I understand what you’re saying. I think it is really important what you are saying, that you were still entertainment, but now you’re baseball players 11 �and their watching it for the baseball, professional baseball. In your first season you told about that one time that you whacked that ball out there, were there any other particular ones that you can recall that really stick out either on your end or what you saw?” 47:37 It had to do with the pitchers because I was little. I remember Jeanie Marlow in Kenosha, she had a screwball, it’s opposite of a curve and they don’t throw it very often, so anyway about the third batter, it was early in the season and a new team came in and I don’t even know who the team was, so I gave her the number one sign because that’s a fast ball and just plain ball and she shook it off and I was wondering what was going on, so I knew she didn’t want a curve, so I gave her number two and she shook it off and I gave her the change up and she shook it off and I gave her the screw ball and I just went through the whole thing and she kept shaking it off, so I called time and I went to see her and I said, “can you see the signs?” 48:45 She said, “oh yea, I can see the signs ok”, and I said, “can you see me ok?” We’re starting to loosen up and josh one another and I said, “what’s the problem?” She said, “Oh, I just wanted to confuse the batter”. Those are the moments of the different little things that one does in a professional league. Now that might not have happened with another pitcher, with another pitcher it might be something else or I might get a sign from a pitcher instead of me giving a sign to the pitcher. That didn’t happen very often though. 49:33 Interviewer: “When was it, maybe in your first season, or was it later, that you started to think that maybe this was going to be your career or did you even think that?” I never thought it; I was just doing what I loved to do. I just never thought of it. I came back to Milwaukee and I had to work. I did a little bit of coaching with some younger kids and played a little bit of slow pitch baseball. Interviewer: “There’s no comparison.” No, heavens no there isn’t, but that’s what was going on at that time and that went on to become a pretty popular thing, so I was staying in the activity of the game and then I got married and raised children. It isn’t that I didn’t think about playing professional ball, but we never talked about it. Bob knew when I married him, but we didn’t talk and I think that if you ask that question to everyone of us they would say the same thing. 50:53 We just went about our business, it was grand, beautiful and we didn’t have that sense that we were setting standards or overcoming barriers, we just did it. You really didn’t know the historical impact on things until much later and my three boys—I had a ten inch ball that was signed by the teams and it was upstairs, so they used the ball and used my glove, they couldn’t use my shoes of course, and I said, “oh, you can’t use that ball, can’t you see those signatures on there? That’s when I played professional”, and they said, “oh yea mom”. 51:50 Well, that was the opening of saying a little bit about what I did and I said, “well, I played professional ball”, and they said, “yea, yea”, you know how boys are, but they do know now and they’re very proud of that and they relay that to other people very easily if we’re out in a group of some kind. One of them will 12 �say, “oh my mom played pro”, and I say, “here we go”. My husband did a lot of that, but I didn’t do it. I’m learning how a little bit and I pick my times if it’s called for, then I might. 52:55 I don’t just advertise it and I do give a lot of talks to different groups, very different kinds of groups and they love to hear about it and that’s a whole new experience for us again. When you do that you learn the impact of what we did and the style that we did that. 53:33 Interviewer: “I want to get back to the—you’ve gone through your first season now ok? How many seasons did you actually play with that team? You were with Kenosha right? How long did you play with them?” It was two, one season with them and one season before that. Kenosha in 1951 dropped out of the league. Interviewer: “Where did you go from there?” To work. Interviewer: “You didn’t play again?” I didn’t play again. 54:02 It folded, it was terrible and I thought the whole league was folding, but we went until 1954, but it was absolutely terrible. Interviewer: “I guess and I don’t want to go somewhere that you don’t want to go, but what caught me by surprise was that for some reason I thought after Kenosha you went on to play for another baseball team. Why not?” Because the Racine Belles were already out and you had less teams and you don’t need that many ball players and I couldn’t wait, I had to go to work and send money home and stuff like that and I just—it’s over. One has to understand how the move from one thing to another because I did a lot of moving in my life and I learned how to accept something and just move on. 55:20 Interviewer: “Did you see the end coming to the league? You said that in 1951 you out.” A little bit within our own team and near the end we weren’t sure we were going to get paid and that sort of thing and then sometimes the chaperone became the manager and that sort of thing. By that time there wasn’t an over arching league ownership, by that time each team had to take care of themselves and I think that was in 1948 or something like that. Looking back on it, it was pretty much the access and it was going to end and there was some talk about it. 56:17 Interviewer: “You said that you went back to work and you said that very quickly and how difficult was it when it ended? It’s over, it’s ended and you’re going back to work now, what was your reaction?” 13 �You go kick stones, walk the beach and mull things over and cry a little, but one is quickly drawn into a different kind of life style. You can’t stay there very long—I had to go on and put bread in the mouth so to speak. We did have some contact with other ball players and we’re all commiserating about the loss, our joy, our inner joy, play and just learned how to accept it with clenched teeth. 57:36 Interviewer: “I don’t know about you, but for me it really hit me hard because in a sense when you talk about going to slow pitch, that’s a huge drop and that had to be hard to do. I never played professional baseball, but I went through a transition and from playing to doing slow pitch I just went, “huh, what is this?” What it does—that’s part of the transition and it wasn’t what it was called and what we were doing, we were playing. We had the activity, this little child here was out doing something—playing whatever she could play and the joy of the activity and the movement of the body and being able to give expression to the body and I was still able to do that and then I could coach some of that. That’s small little transitions that you don’t know are happening, but they are you could still throw the ball, you could still bat the ball and I could still throw and I’ve never had a sore arm because you take care of yourself and when I throw, I use my body along with it, I’m not just all arm and that’s a thrill. 59:09 It is a thrill to throw the ball because the whole sense of the body is active and that’s what helped me to stop kicking stones. Interviewer: “I’m going to ask you a personal question and if you don’t want to answer it, please don’t, but you mentioned earlier that you told your husband Bob about being a ball player. How did you two meet and did he know you were a ball player? Is there a connection there?” He didn’t know. A fellow came to work where I was working that had worked where he was, at a company that he worked at for thirty six years, and he played golf, they had their own golf team, and Paul and I had already made arrangements to go golfing on Thursday with his wife and they golfed on Wednesday, so he came to work the next day and said, “Do you mind of somebody else comes along to make a foursome? :12 I said, “that’s fine”, so I left work and went home and changed my clothes and met him on the golf course and went to Paul’s house afterwards and had a light lunch and then he was on vacation someplace and about two or three weeks later Paul comes to me and said, “could I give him your phone number?” I said, “is that Bob?” And he said it was and I said, “ok” because I had to know who it was and I made my own decisions around those things. 1:02 On our first date we went to a Packer game, a Packer game here in Milwaukee at the old Marquette Stadium and it was a kind of foggy, rainy night, but the Packers won, it was that Bishops game, and then we met Paul and Fran downtown and we had dinner and danced and all of that. We went together pretty well after that and that was in August and I was engaged in October and married in January. All from meeting on the golf course. 1:52 Interviewer: “When did you tell him about being a baseball player?” 14 �I don’t really remember, but not too long after that because he knew that I was interested in sports and he played softball and I think he got the idea that to get to me we had to participate in sports and I think it just kind of came out in natural conversation. Interviewer: “In the earlier conversation we were having, you said that he liked to talk about the fact that you were playing baseball.” Yes, because I wouldn’t and he was proud of that and most of the players, when they left, didn’t talk about it much. If they did any talking, they did it with each other if they were in contact with one another. 2:57 Interviewer: “I’m so pleased to hear your boys and that they seemed to like the fact that mom played baseball professionally too.” They have come a long way with that. They were very young and I taught them a lot of things. I think they gradually came to understand that I knew something because I was teaching them. They played a little ball, but they liked swimming and auto mechanics and all that sort of stuff and I learned then what was happening to me when I was little. I wanted to do what I wanted to do and each individual boy does, they’re all mechanics and machinists, but they’ve learned to be their own person and they are very different. 3:48 Interviewer: “This is going to be a tougher question digging into your memory, but when did you first start and I don’t need a date or anything, but when did you first start realizing, after the fact, what you had participated in, enjoyed so much, was very proud of, but still didn’t talk a whole lot about, other people were starting to go, “Hey, did you know about that?” When did you first realize that you guys participated in something that you didn’t think was very important at the time, but a lot of other people were?” 4:27 See I, because I had a married name, they didn’t catch up with me for a while and so when I found out that we were in the Hall of Fame. Interviewer: “You didn’t know?” I didn’t know. I was at a house with Marge Peters, who had played before me in 1944, and she didn’t know that I had played because I was in 1950 and 1951, so they were always looking for different ones and a group of us were together at her house and there was a long hallway and there was her wall of honor and my picture was up there and so she told me and she showed me the video from Cooperstown. 5:16 Well, I’ll tell you, I beat my chest. I just beat my chest because “this little one”, which I was called, did something, I said, “I wish my mother was here now” because she really didn’t approve, but she knew that I needed to do those things and we finally agreed to that. 6:06 I think that when you do what you really love to do that it is a gift and when we exercise and grow out of our gifts, that’s where we go in life and there’s a different joy in learning that than there is the playing. The joy is monumentus, it’s like “this little kid did it” you 15 �know because I had to prove myself all the time. 6:52 All the time I was proving myself to myself as well and there isn’t anything better than proving yourself to yourself. It gives momentum to what you do and there’s opportunity then to share that. We now share that with each other. We still can come to reunions and meet somebody you haven’t met before, but you know that they’ve played and we share the same thing, all the ups and downs, ins and outs, hurts and bruises and strawberries and stories. 7:39 We begin to tell our own stories within our group. Interviewer: “You said something earlier about not talking about it, the fact that your husband was very proud of you and did more talking about it than you, because you wouldn’t, your kids finally got to the point of realizing it. Why do you want to talk about it now?” 8:04 It’s valuable. It’s history. If we don’t tell our stories there’s no history to anything if the stories aren’t told and when I give talks, I say that to the mothers, I tell the mothers that they have to support their child in what the child likes to do—they may change their mind in two weeks and they need to tall their story and the grand parents need to love them to pieces because those are the important things for a child when they’re growing up. 8:55 As I said before, it was very difficult growing up, but all of that is who I am and when I began to recognize that playing baseball was a very important part of my living and growing up and who I am and we need to share that with everybody and anybody who wants to know or will listen and that’s important for the other person also. 9:27 Interviewer: “I have two last questions for you. One you answered in part throughout, so I’m just going to ask you this: How did the experience of baseball, pro baseball affect you as a person and how you became the person you are today?” Learning how to get along really. In college I’m a broad field social science major educated in secondary education and I was broad field because of all the things that I was learning, because when you meet at a very young age somebody from New Jersey and somebody from the south, Atlanta or whatever, Cuba, Canada, each one of us teach each other who they are and we begin to look at that and recognize that broadens our horizons of how we view our world. 10:37 The capability then of interacting with people in a situation no matter where we are. I often say in my talks that we were taught how to be professional people on the field and off the field very much so. Interviewer: “You talked earlier also using the word history and as you know, we have Dr. Smither here in the history department at Grand Valley State University and I’m a documentary film maker, so I’m going to ask you this very specific question. Where do you think the All American Girls Professional Baseball League fits in the whole scheme of history?” 11:24 The development of women, to be given the opportunities to do who they are. Every person who is alive has desires and things that they like and dislike and if one only does as one is told or put in a niche or to be seen and not heard we have lost something. That person has lost something, the world has lost something, not just the United States, but 16 �the whole world has lost something because we’re still part of the human race, we’re not just what someone else thinks we are. We have to learn to live out from within instead of having to fulfill somebody else’s ideas of what we are. I’m very strong on that because I had the privilege of living that out. I always say, “I had a health dose of stubbornness”, but that’s what it takes. There are so many facets to the development of the human being that intellectually, physically, emotionally, all of that and the more we do that the more we are who we are and we can interact with other people of the world. I can reach out and I can say, “hi, thank you, good to meet you”, and I do that with the kids and if we don’t do that, what are we? 13:53 It just so happens that through sports, it could have been any sport because most of us played all sports and in that is the interaction between us and if I throw the ball to you and you throw the ball back to me, we have a relationship and if we don’t know how to have relationships with people, oh man, we’re in trouble, we’re in deep trouble if we don’t, that’s what we’re here for. 14:36 Interviewer: “I still didn’t get a complete answer to the history question. Where do you think the, and I love what you just said, don’t get me wrong, but I want to focus on—from your perspective where does the team fit in terms of history? Were do you just a baseball team? Where do you think it fits into all of this?” You know, we grew up in a time when we were at WWII and my husband was in WWII, I had two of my brothers in WWII and we took care of the homefront in the sense of— when we played we made a V from home plate past the pitchers mound, one team here and one team there and that V was for victory, that’s what that was for. We played at Fort Sheridan for the soldiers there and for the navy people at Great Lakes and that was usually in the springtime for exhibitions and things like that. 15:43 We helped to sell war bonds in the sense of our appearances. We didn’t physically handle that, but it was because of whom we were and what we were doing that the war bonds were sold and we saved Aluminum foil and made it into baseballs and threw them around. We were a part of the homefront; I think a very large part of the homefront. To give entertainment where there wasn’t much. You didn’t have much money, there was gas rationing and we took care of the people in that sense that were in a geographical area. Interviewer: “Now that part you did feel at the time, right? You did feel that part?” Sure right. Interviewer: “You may not have understood the significance of the baseball and what it was going to do for future generations, but you did feel that it was part of the war effort like “Rosie the Riveter”, the WACS or the WAVES or anybody?” 17:08 Absolutely, we were very much aware of sort of a role, I would call it a role, that a—that actually helped to keep people who worked very hard and long hours, they had a chance to relax and had a chance to interact with us, and we with them, in a very positive way. We were always in tune with what was going on, always. 17:49 We began every game with the “Star Spangled Banner” and we were very in tune to “God Bless America” with 17 �the fat lady singing. Had to hear the fat lady sing and you know what we did when we traveled? We sang all the time and it was the singing that helped us in the sense of fulfilling what it is that the people at home had to go through and keep the moral—we were moral boosters, I would say for whomever came in contact with us. 18:39 Interviewer: “A couple random questions, any particular incidents, events highlights anywhere in that period of time you were playing that you, for whatever reason, would like to have on the record? Maybe the kids want to hear about or grandchildren would finally hear about. Just something, it doesn’t even have to be baseball related per say, but what in that period of time when you were playing pro ball, any particular things that may have happened that come to your head?” 19:10 Well, there are two things. One thing is the travel and realizing that we are part of a larger thing and the other one is baseball and it has to do with playing in Yankee Stadium. As we were traveling through and came to Newark, New Jersey again and we played in the old Griffith Stadium in Washington, D.C. and that was our first time to play within a major league ballpark, “marvelous”. 19:57 Of course you’re in Newark when you go across the water there and go to Yankee Stadium and that’s where I met Yogi Berra because I was on that side and when he was starting out and I was so excited because I think we parked like two miles away, I left my shoes on the bus and that’s how excited we were to be in Yankee Stadium. To walk inside for the first time as a very young person to see Yankee Stadium, you’re looking around and “oh my goodness”. At that time it was pretty much “the stadium” and to meet the players that we met was a— Yogi asked me if I wanted to use his bat—well, first of all Yogi liked a thick handle and a heavy thing out here, it was a club, and if I had picked it up and swung it, I would still be going around in circles. I saw his wrists and his wrists were really big and you had to have those kinds of wrists to use a bat like that. The whole experience at Yankee Stadium was memorable in terms of baseball. 21:21 Interviewer: “Was part of it because you were professional? You’re not just a fan walking into Yankee Stadium; you’re walking in as a professional into Yankee Stadium.” Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. Like I say, we went to Griffith Stadium first on the way up from town and the difference between a AAA league diamond and major league, there’s no comparison, it’s just awesome and I use that word not casually, it’s awesome. I realized why the Yankees had great catchers—because the distance between home plate and the backstop, you could put a softball diamond in, I mean it was very far. 22:19 You knew you couldn’t have a fat ball, no fat balls in Yankee Stadium because they could take two bases instead of one and I think that’s why they had such good catchers and good hitters. They had catchers that were very good hitters. It was a professional meeting, absolutely, and a lot of the kids that were there still talk about it. We’re proud to have been there and rubbed elbows with the “biggies” and just like young kids now are proud to meet us in that vein. 23:18 When you tell the story, you relive the emotions. 18 �Interviewer: “Well, there are a few of us older “fogies” here that kind of special being here with you too. I’m not quite the older “fogie” yet, I’m not going to admit to it though although—I have a question and I’m sure you’ve been asked it a hundred times, but what did you think of the movie?” 23:48 The movie was good because it was based on fact even though it was a fictional story and that’s Hollywood and Hollywood eyes. A lot of embellishments that we sit and laugh at and I think the only thing we were concerned with was in the beginning, when we saw the move, was a little bit of the language. There wasn’t a lot of that, but we’re thinking of it in terms of showing young people and I think there’s a version out that doesn’t have that in and I’m happy about that because it needs to be in the schools and whether it’s elementary, high school, college or whatever. 24:33 Interviewer: “You will be happy to know that when we first started about doing this project, the Library of Congress project with women’s baseball, when I talked to my students and there was not a lot of knowledge about it, but when you said, League of Their Own, they knew and said, “oh, I loved that movie”, and then I said, “I’m going to meet the real women” and they went “wow”. I look at it from a different perspective, I watched the movie and I love tom Hanks and I love Geena Davis and for me it was more of a Hollywood version, but it did give you the overview of the experience of walking into that ballpark. eeina Davis walks in and there’s all those players playing, it had to be close to being real, oh yeah. 25:32 I thought that Penny Marshall was very astute in how it was put together because when I was in Chicago when we were first asked to come and tryout for six speaking parts and then we went to Cooperstown and I wondered, “how are they going to do this without being trite about things and just throw an idiom in there somehow or another and have it make sense”, but she made sense all the way through, all the way through. There were integral parts of the story that said what it is and what won support for a lot of us was when Tom Hanks is talking to Geena Davis when she’s leaving to go to Oregon. Well, I saw the premieer in Fort Wayne, we had a premiere there and when he said, “of course it’s hard, if it wasn’t hard, anybody could do it”, well there’s another chest going thing, but we were quiet, it was so quiet that you could hear all the motors and stuff underneath that handle everything in that theater. That’s how quiet it was because we were crying. What I said about having to learn to survive and go through a lot of stuff, that was another way of saying that, but a way that was acceptable to other people. It helped us to be acceptable because we went through a lot of unacceptability, but we didn’t let it change us, it helped us to grow. 27:30 Interviewer: I was moved by that too, in fact I teach writing at Grand Valley and I say that about writers, the same thing. “It’s hard work and if it was easy, everybody could do it”. I really felt that too.” If you are doing what you really love to do, you will do it, no matter how hard it is, but that makes it what it is or anybody could do it. 28:05 Interviewer: “That was wonderful, that was wonderful.” 19 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League was started by Philip Wrigley, owner of the Chicago Cubs, during World War II to fill the void left by the departure of most of the best male baseball players for military service. Players were recruited from across the country, and the league was successful enough to be able to continue on after the war. The league had teams based in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan, and operated between 1943 and 1954. The 1954 season ended with only the Fort Wayne, South Bend, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Rockford teams remaining. The League gave over 600 women athletes the opportunity to play professional baseball. Many of the players went on to successful careers, and the league itself provided an important precedent for later efforts to promote women's sports. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-58)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Sports for women World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Oral history Baseball players--Minnesota Baseball players--Indiana Baseball players--Wisconsin Baseball players--Michigan Baseball players--Illinois Baseball for women--United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-10-02 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58_JBaumgart Title A name given to the resource Baumgart, Jacqueline Mattson (Interview transcript and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Baumgart, Jacqueline Mattson Description An account of the resource Jacqueline Baumgart (née Mattson) was born in Waukegan, Illinois. She grew up in Waukegan area and played with the neighborhood boys. She played outfield positions as a kid. In 1942, her family moved to Milwaukee, WI where she played with as a catcher for a few local softball teams. Eventually, she was scouted for the All American Girls Baseball League. At the start of her first spring training she had not been assigned to a team yet. She was eventually assigned to the Springfield Sallies in 1950. She played the 1950 season with them and was then traded to the Kenosha Comets and played the 1951 season with them. One of her main career highlights was having the opportunity to play as a professional in Yankee Stadium. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Baseball for women--United States Baseball Sports for women World War, 1939-1945 Baseball players--Illinois Baseball players--Wisconsin Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-09-25 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-55)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/06956280e40614b43b3b55d5d7f4f929.mp4 f2a6cac73b1e0613cc4deed266d76c37 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ee7204a431cc0405f065e7fe5a88a1d2.pdf fdd86f48f75c774251e7c78d76ebb60c PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW WIMP BAUMGARTNER Women in Baseball Born: Fort Wayne, Indiana, 1930 Resides: Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, August 5, 2010, Detroit, MI at the All American Girls Professional Baseball League reunion. Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, March 23, 2011 Interviewer: “Wimp, can you start by giving us a little bit of background on yourself? Where and when were you born, for instance?” I was born in Fort Wayne, Indiana in 1930 and the last of six kids. The other four were girls and in other words there were five girls in the family and one boy, but he died when he was eleven months old and I was born two months later, so that was it. Interviewer: “What did your family do for a living in those days?” My dad ran a grocery store and, of course, my mom worked in there with him and we lived above the grocery store. They moved a farmhouse over from where they built the Harvester in Fort Wayne. My grandpa moved houses, so he moved the farmhouse over there and my mom was the oldest girl in that family, so my grandpa gave it to the oldest girl, so that’s where we ended up, across from Zollner, Magnavox and Harvester. Interviewer: “Was your father able to keep his store through the thirties?” 56:03 Yeah, we got a lot of trade from the guys in the factory, cigarettes and ice cream. Mom and dad had a restaurant license and they served hamburgers and cheeseburgers. Stuff that—they would come in and get their potato chips and Twinkie cookies and all that good stuff. On the way out of the store they would get an ice cream cone to eat on the way back to the factories and I would have to go out in the yard and clean up their mess. 1 �Interviewer: “So, as long as the factories were going then you had business and you were ok. How did you get involved playing sports?” Well, the neighborhood boys. The boys lived close to where I did and of course I didn’t have any brothers, but we went back to Harvester Park, which was two blocks behind and they had a ball diamond back there and every night we congregated there, but we always had to be home by dark. That was it as far as—and oh, the men from Zollners, when they had the Zollner Pistons professional basketball team, before they moved to Detroit, they use to come over and shoot baskets at my basket with me, so we always had the big ball players coming in the store for their donuts and coffee and all that good stuff. 57:16 Interviewer: “Now, when you were playing—were you playing baseball with the boys or were they playing softball?” We played with any kind of ball we had. Interviewer: “With whatever they had, and did they have regular baseball bats or sticks?” No, my dad had a softball neighborhood men’s team, and Zollner put up a ball diamond across the street from our grocery store, which was between Zollner and Magnavox, and after work, or sometimes at noon, the guys would have an hour for lunch and they would be over there playing softball in the summertime, so I always had to run over and play ball with the big men. They let me bat, they let me run the bases, and I was at the height of my glory. 58:02 I got to know all the fellas that way. Interviewer: “Were there any other girls playing with them?” No, the other girls were outrun, I guess, I don’t know. Interviewer: “So, you’re sisters weren’t interested in this?” 2 �No, they was women or girls or something. Interviewer: “Alright now, do you remember when the women’s baseball team came to play in Fort Wayne?” They came in 1945, and of course, I went out to watch them and also, my phys-ed teacher at Fort Wayne Central, she went out and tried out and I went with her to the tryouts. I was just out there running around because I had no intention of playing with them or anything. We were on our way to the lake, so she went to the tryouts and then we were going to go to her cottage, her mom and dad’s cottage at the lake. So, we were out there playing around and she made the team, she was an underhand pitcher at that time, and I was her student in eighth grade, and of course I tagged her all over, and she was very, not demanding, but I mimicked her like kids do. 59:20 So, I’d go out and watch them play ball and I’d look at that and say, “geeze, I can do that”, you know, a cocky little kid, so when I graduated I tried out with Fort Wayne and, of course, they didn’t need an outfielder at that time, or anyplace else I could play, so they sent me to Chicago and up there, they made me into a catcher, and I was right where I should have been all the time. It felt real good and I got along good and I did pretty good because I went on the tour. Interviewer: “Alright, so you said you tried out for Fort Wayne, was that an individual tryout?” 59:58 No, this was a spring training deal. They put an ad in the paper you know, and the other softball players come and you know, we just performed in front of the manager at that time, that was Harold Greiner then, and he had a bar in town next to the softball diamond. Interviewer: “Do you have a sense of how many of those girls got sent on to Chicago or to the other teams?” 3 �I think there were three of us, and the rest got sent home, but I got to stay, I lucked out. Interviewer: “So, you go to Chicago and what team are you joining there?” It wasn’t a team; it was a whole big tryout. We were at a small hotel at the north end of town. They brought in four Cubans and Lefty Alvarez was one of those Cubans, of course none of them could talk English or anything. All they did was eat scrambled eggs and hamburgers and I don’t know what they drank, but that’s all they ate. I think that’s all they knew how to order. 1:05 Anyhow, from there we left on the tour. We had two teams, so there were a lot of girls there with fifteen or sixteen on a team, Chicago [Colleens] and the [Springfield] Sallies. I forget which team I was with first, but anyhow, midway through June they switched me to the other team, and I don’t remember which one I was with first. Interviewer: “So, you got to catch all the pitchers and not just one team?” Yeah, I ended up catching most all of them, yeah. Interviewer: “Now, as you were going along in that first season, how well were you doing as a player? Were you doing well as a catcher or as a hitter?” I did pretty well at both at that time, of course we were strictly overhand and it was new for the pitchers and new for batters and I was the first one that got to hit a home run on that whole tour. 2:07 I don’t know why I remember those things, but they must be important. Interviewer: “Do you remember who you hit it off of?” Heavens no, that was too long ago. Interviewer: “All right, now what was the daily life like as you were going on tour with these two teams?” 4 �Ok, we were all on one bus and we intermingle because, like I said, some of us switched back and forth on different teams. We got three dollars a day meal money, and usually if we were in a town, we were only there for one night or maybe two, so we always had dirty clothes to do. We always went out and ate at small restaurants, we didn’t have Burger King and McDonalds and that, so they just had mom and pop places, and what we had was trash food because we would very seldom order a meal. 3:06 If we were traveling—one time we were traveling from Saint something in Oklahoma, and we rode until about noon the next day to hit our next stop and it was continually that kind of stuff. We always stayed in air-cooled hotels, which was a nice little old fan up there in the middle of the room just barely going around and that was our air conditioning. Of course, all the windows were always up. We just moseyed around town and didn’t stay in the hotel too much because it was too hot. We did run into colored only drinking fountains and rest rooms and we had never seen that before, and it was in our face almost every day. Interviewer: “So, most of the players were from the Midwest and areas where they didn’t have the—or the Northeast or California?” Yeah, most of us were from the Midwest. 4:07 As I said, the Cubans were there and a lot from Michigan and a few from Indiana. Yeah, we had some from Redkey, down by Indianapolis and Ohio. We had some from Ohio and Illinois and that was about it, the Midwest and we didn’t have hardly anybody coming from somewhere else. Interviewer: “And if they were not coming up from the south, they wouldn’t have seen the segregation and all that kind of thing.” 5 �Mentioning the south and the ball players—every time we went in, I wouldn’t say every time, but a lot of the times we went in, they would ads in the paper that we were coming and they were to come out and tryout. Well, we picked up Sue Kidd in Arkansas, and she showed up with bib overalls on and I don’t want to make fun of Sue because she was a good player, but she was “back woods country, small town hardy”. I think all they had was a post office there with houses around. 5:10 Her dad was a Postmaster, but she showed up with a farmer haircut like the Amish, they put a bowl on their head and cut around it, but after she got on the bus with us , we were in Little Rock, she had to go back to Choctaw and pack her bag, and they brought her down the next day and she got on the bus and went with us. Her dad was all for it, he was a gung ho baseball man from way back. He always had ball teams and three boys. Sue had a couple brothers, Tommy and Buck, and they played good. After the first season I went home with Sue and we rode them hills back there. They were going to have a ball game the night we got there, because we traveled all day and everything, And they wanted Sue to pitch, so Sue pitched and they had—I had to catch because I was with her, and it was a fabulous time. 6:12 They come from out of those hills, I don’t know where those people come from because going down the road you don’t see too many houses. They are back in the hills someplace, but boy when they would have a ball game they would have a couple thousand people there and that was a lot of people back in the hills. Interviewer: “Now, when you were touring you would—you mentioned you were in Oklahoma, you were in Arkansas and those areas, and did you kind of go through the Southeast or Northeast? Where else did you go traveling?” 6 �We got to play in Natchez and New Orleans, in a ball field down there, at Pelican Park I think it was, and that was big time. The manager made sure we went to Antoine’s for dinner one day and we got three dollars a day for meal money and everything in there was about ten dollars and that was big bucks back then. 7:05 We had to go and we were all mad at him because we had to spend all our money on chicken and that was the cheapest thing on the menu. We managed that, we walked through the French Quarter and I mean, we got an education, all the way, you learn geography, you learn everything. You learn how they talk from down there and it was just—it was a good education for a kid the first time away from home. We never got to travel back in those days because our parents never got to go anywhere. We couldn’t because of the grocery store. Interviewer: “How much of an effort did they make to look after you? You had chaperone with you and so forth, but how did they keep track of you and keep you in line?” We had a couple on the tour that would kind of get lost once and a while, you know, run off or do something, but most of us, the first time away and we were all pretty young, so we didn’t get too wild. 8:09 We were half afraid to walk on some of those streets and at night we would play, but sometimes we would play day games, but we never wandered too far by ourselves at all because we didn’t know what was out there. Interviewer: “As you kept going, and get to Louisiana, do you keep going east and go all the way to the east coast?” Yeah, we went to Jackson, Mississippi, Baton Rouge and over to Alabama. We were in Tennessee; we played—the prettiest time I ever saw, even in major leagues, was in Memphis Tennessee. The have that red dirt down there you know, and the white lines on 7 �it and the green grass and the fence around it was green, and I don’t know why, but I sure do remember that park because it was so pretty. 9:11 From there we went back down to Mississippi. We backtracked and we went through Fort Smith Arkansas three times from three different directions, getting around to where we—the man got—a guy by the name of Frank Elve or Helve, he went ahead of us about two days or three days and he would go to these towns and have them book us. Of course he would have to talk to the chamber of commerce in all these towns and everything, but he kept ahead of us and he kept us moving, but glory, we went all over the country in three different times going in different directions. We were in Paris, Texas, Tyler, Texas and one of the big cities I think it was Austin-- Austin, Texas, that’s the capital, we were there because we saw the capital building. One other time, when we first started out, we went to Jefferson Missouri, and in Jefferson City, Missouri, the capital, they have this acoustic room. 10:15 It’s a great big lobby and the ceiling is real high and you could hear somebody whisper clear across the—see, I tell you, we got to see that kind of stuff. Oh, another thing too, in Joplin, Missouri we got to go through the Penitentiary. We were walking through the jail and them guys were just looking at us girls and we were scared to death to be in there. I know they were caged up, but we didn’t know the way they were looking at us bothered us because we had some fifteen and sixteen, I was eighteen, anyhow that was an experience. Interviewer: “Now, you didn’t complete that season with the touring teams?” No, I think it was in Mississippi, they sent a Piper cub down to pick me up and take me back to Peoria. We got back, Lenny Zintak was our manager and he came in the hotel room to tell me, “hey Wimp, I got good news for you. I’m sending you home”, and I 8 �thought, “oh God”, and I was about ready to bawl. 11:21 Then he said, “you have to go up to Peoria and be their catcher”, and I thought, “oh my golly”. We got to Peoria in this little old plane, I don’t even know who the pilot was, anyway, we got there and Peoria was playing over in Fort Wayne, my hometown, so we had to get back in this little old airplane and he flew me over to Fort Wayne. I caught that night and wasn’t introduced to the pitcher because I just got there in time for the game. They had a uniform that didn’t fit me, but I had to go out and catch anyhow, but that was fun. My mom and dad were there and I hadn’t seen them for two months, so they told me I was going to go home and I was homesick like everyone was. We sure did live through some things. 12:08 Then we got on the bus right after that and went back to Peoria and for two days I hadn’t been in a bed. We were traveling all night to get down to Mississippi and then they sent me someplace else up there and then I finally got to Fort Wayne and that was their last game of the series there, so I got back in the bus and we went back to Peoria. That was an all night trip and we got in about nine the next morning—that was living. Interviewer: “Once you got to Peoria, did you get a chance to settle down a little bit?” Yeah, they put me in a house, it wasn’t too far from the ballpark, and I had a room in there upstairs. A man and a woman who had two kids, nice kids, and I was within walking distance, so I could walk to the ballpark. I never did get on a bus and go downtown, I was afraid I’d get lost. Peoria’s pretty big and I didn’t know anything about it. 13:05 Interviewer: “So, were you their regular catcher then for the rest of the season?” 9 �I caught about the first three games and then Terry Donahue and I switched back and forth some. I was new and she didn’t have the arm I had, but she had more smarts than I had because she knew the girls better, so it worked out and I had a nice education on that. Interviewer: “So, you got to learn the hitters and learn what the pitchers could do?” Yeah, you only see then three days and then another team would come in or you would go somewhere else, so that was only for the month of August, because I got there at the end of July and the season was over on Labor Day and that’s when the play offs started. Of course, Peoria wasn’t in the play offs that year, that’s probably why they sent for me, but I couldn’t get them in the play offs, I know that. Interviewer: “So, what happens then when the season ends, that first season?” 14:05 That first season? Well, I didn’t have a car, I didn’t know anybody, so my landlord took me down to the bus station that night and I slept in the bus station that night and I took the bus to go home the next morning. That was an all night—well, we had to go up through Chicago because they didn’t have any buses go straight across the northern part of Indiana, so we had to go to Chicago, stay there half a day and I finally got home. Interviewer: “When you got back home, did you go back to work in the store or what did you do?” I was now eighteen and I could get a job, so I went down the hill to Magnavox. Well, that hill between Magnavox and us was all down hill and that’s where they had the soapbox derby every year. Well, when I was a little kid I had a buggy and I went and took the wheels off the buggy and put it on an ironing board and put an orange crate on 10 �top of that, because we had orange crates from the grocery store, and I made a little—I just steered it by rope with rope on one side and the other. 15:13 Of course back then you could do that. Anytime you could get wood with four wheels on it, you could run it down the hill, so I would play with the boys out there and I could beat them all with my buggyies, but I went down to get in the soapbox derby and they laughed at me and I had to go home and I bawled all the way home. They wouldn’t let the girls do anything. Something else too—in high school—I wanted to take drafting and stuff and I wanted to be an Architect—that was a boys class and they wouldn’t let me in—that’s the story of my life—boys always got in my way, but times have changed. Interviewer: “So, you took a job with Magnavox then for that winter?” Yeah, for the winter Interviewer: “Did you know you were going back to the league the next year?” Yes, Magnavox happily laid you off all summer, so I went back to Magnavox the next fall, and then the third winter I went to Fort Wayne Catering Company and worked there in the wintertime. 16:11 I would save my money to go to college. Interviewer: “So, the second season, how did that start?” Ok, I got to—I went to spring training with Muskegon. Interviewer: “And where was spring training that year?” Cape Girardeau, Missouri—that was—there were four teams down there. The fort Wayne Daisies was one, we were one, well, Muskegon was one. The Fort Wayne Daisies picked up Joan Weaver and the Weaver kids, all three of them and they hung on to them players I guess, they didn’t let them go. Then at the end of spring training I was with Kalamazoo—I keep saying Kalamazoo because Muskegon was with Kalamazoo, 11 �but I didn’t move to Kalamazoo. At the end of spring training they sent me on a South Bend bus. Evidently I was traded to South Bend somewhere in spring training and that’s how I got to South Bend. 17:18 You pack your bag and get on the bus. I looked at them and I didn’t know any of them, so—the veterans don’t talk to the rookies too much, so I just went back and sat back and then they put me in a house there within walking distance of the thing—the ballpark. Interviewer: “ Now, did you actually go to play in Muskegon or were you just assigned to them and then switched to the Blue Sox?” I was assigned to them after Peoria. I don’t know how I got from Peoria to Muskegon. You get a letter and that’s where you go. That’s where you report for spring training and we had to drive down—some of the other players from Pennsylvania and stuff were going through Indiana you know, so we kept track of each other, so I hitched a ride with some of them to get down to Cape Girardeau. Interviewer: “What was Cape Girardeau like anyway?” 18:15 Oh, I don’t know, it was on the Mississippi you know and the train tracks down there— the bog down there and they had a ball diamond down there and everything and I guess it flooded out half of the spring time, but we got inland a little bit more, but not much. We were right down along the river park and that’s where the main part of the town was. It was just a southern town, that’s all I can say, with a lot of railroad tracks and barges going up and down the river and that was something for us to see. Interviewer: “All right, I want to make sure we are kind of following the course of your career here, so you trained with Muskegon, but you did not go to Muskegon?” I went there—no, I got on the bus to South Bend. 12 �Interviewer: “You went to South Band?” Yes, they just told me to get on the bus with South Bend. 19:12 Interviewer: “Did you play for South Band that season then?” Yeah Interviewer: “Ok, was this 1950 now?” Yeah, this was 1950. Interviewer: “Now, who were the really good veteran players for the South Bend team at that point?” They had Marge Stefani, she was a real good player, but right now, I think this was the second year she had become a chaperone, so she was a chaperone when I got there. Bonnie Baker was a second baseman and she was one of the main players and the stars, more or less, of the whole thing. Shirley Stavroff was the catcher, she was the one that made me sit on the bench for a couple years, but she was better. She was a pretty fair hitter and she was from southern Illinois, I think. Jean Faut was the wife of Karl Winsch, and she was probably one of the best, one of the top three pitchers in the league. She had two perfect games in a row and all that good stuff. 20:16 I caught a couple one hitters from her later on when I started catching. When Stavroff left the team and I moved in and I was lucky enough to play the last couple years, 1953 and 1954 as a first string catcher. Interviewer: “Now, before that, would you just rotate occasionally?” Yeah, for a double header and I always caught batting practice to help the pitchers out with target and stuff. I would always hurry up and bat first and then I put my stuff on and start catching the rest. 13 �Interviewer: “Would they use you as a pinch hitter or put you anywhere else?” I pinch hit just a couple times, but they never put me in to pinch run. I just wasn’t that speedy. 21:05 Interviewer: “Were you a good defensive catcher?” Yeah, more so Interviewer: “What did you do to keep the base stealers from going wild? Because there were some women that were really good at stealing bases.” It wasn’t the catchers—how are you going to stop them, it’s the pitcher that they’re running on, but you usually knew who was going to run and who wasn’t going to run. I had a pretty good arm down there and I caught some and some you didn’t get, but it wasn’t too much one way or the other. I would catch some and not catch some. Interviewer: “You were kind of like modern baseball now, you do steal, you do run on the pitcher and if a catcher had a good arm you’re a little more careful.” I would shoot one down to first or third sometimes, just to keep them a little closer because that wasn’t so far away and you could keep them a little more alert to what they’re trying to do. 22:04 Interviewer: “And then did you have to call the games?” Yeah, and you pretty well knew what your pitchers could pitch and you knew a little bit how the batters were standing in the box. You knew some of that stuff and you would pick it up and, of course, Karl knew some, the manager, because he was a pitcher in the big leagues. He didn’t last too long, but during the war he did get to play. I enjoyed 14 �what you really learned about the game that fascinated me. I was one who wanted to know. Interviewer: “That’s good for a catcher.” It helps you out a lot. Interviewer: “You basically played, through your career, with the Blue Sox, or did you?” I finished up with the Blue Sox. Interviewer: “Did you play for anyone else along the way?” They loaned me to Kalamazoo for a month in 1950. Their catcher blew out a knee and I went up there and then they finally got a catcher traded in from another team and I went back to South Bend, that’s where you belonged 23:10 Interviewer: “Now, when you were playing in South Bend, could your family and friends from Fort Wayne come over and watch you?” No, but when we got in Fort Wayne I had the whole family there you know, and friends and stuff. I hit a home run in Fort Wayne one time and that was nice, and I don’t remember if it won the game or not. I didn’t get as many singles as a lot of people got, but I’d just as sooner get a double or I never did get a triple, I don’t think, because I’m not that fast, but I got a few home runs. Interviewer: “You had some power?” Yeah, if I hit the ball it usually went pretty fast from wherever. If it went in high enough, I don’t know, but my favorite place was down third base and the short stop area on the left side of the diamond. Interviewer: “Did you play for any championship teams?” 24:08 15 �Oh yeah, I fell into that, in 1951, 1952, we were loaded with good pitchers, Sue Kidd, Janet Ramsey, and Jean Faut, and I got to catch a little bit on that. In 1951 we won the pennant that year and then we went on to win the little series at the end, and we were champions of everything. Then in 1952 we had some—well, we didn’t have a lot of the old players because twelve of them—quite a few of them, I think six or eight, walked out at the end of 1951 and I got to catch in 1951 and 52. At the end of the season in 1951 and in 1952 we won both of them. Interviewer: “And one of those seasons you only had like twelve players left on your roster?” Yeah, we was the “dutiful dozen”, that’s what the newspaper said, and that was interesting. 25:07 Interviewer: “But you got the job done. All right, now you played until the league ended in 1954. Those last couple years could you tell the league was having trouble?” Yeah, they were having financial trouble. The caliber of the game was still pretty good in 1953, but the older players were getting older and they were leaving. If they started in 1943,44 and 45, a lot of those was getting out at 1950, 52 and 53, so they were bringing in a lot of rookies and people who had never played baseball before, of course you all had to go through that, everybody that got in the league went through that. It was just one of those things and in TV and everything and of course the major leagues took over the television, and people stayed home, they didn’t come out to watch us much. We finished the season, but you that was the end of the thing, we knew we weren’t coming back next year, so everybody took their uniforms or their shirt and jackets and stuff. 26:17 16 �Interviewer: “In the 1953 season, you did go to the championship series again and Grand Rapids won that year, but I think you were the ones that they beat, or else they beat Fort Wayne, I forget.” 1953 wasn’t us Interviewer: “Fort Wayne, all right, I’m getting my league history here—I’ve got to make sure I got that straight, but you had—the Blue Sox had a couple of good years in there, okay. Now, if the league had kept going would you have stayed with it a while longer?” Probably, but I don’t know. See, in 1953 when the season was over, and I knew we would have another 1954 yet. I started college in the fall of 1953 and then in the spring of 1953, when it was time to go to spring training, I saved all my skips in college and I didn’t skip any out, so I could go to spring training, so they let me go to spring training. 27:15 I had to come back and take finals, but I took off after a ball game one night in South Bend and drove down to Indianapolis, where I was going to school, and I got down there and slept a couple of hours and then I had to go and take a couple finals and then a couple in the morning and one in the afternoon. Then I had to drive back up to south Bend and that night I think I had seven errors in that ball game. I overthrew second base, I don’ know, I always threw to first base and I was so sleepy and everything I didn’t know what I was doing. Anyway, that was the end of school for that year and I got out of that all right. Interviewer: “All right, and then you had to get through the last season. where there fewer teams by then or were there other signs aside from smaller crowds? How else could you tell there were problems?” 28:14 17 �I think we started with six teams that season, but somewhere in the middle we lost one of them. I know we ended up with five, but I don’t think for the whole season. It was sad because, you know, I got to play in 1951, 52 and 53 regularly and it takes that long to learn the game and the people and everything else. Just about the time you’re ready to be a good strong veteran for four or five more years, four or five more years wasn’t there. That was sad, but you know, you met an awful lot of nice people and I can go all over the country now and visit former players for South Bend or any place since we have these reunions and things. 29:03 Interviewer: “Now, you went back to college after that was over and what did you get your degree in?” The same thing all the rest of them got it in. No, I ended up—I can teach English, I can teach biology, I can teach physical education, genetics. I took a lot of biology because I was thinking of going into being a doctor, but then I figured I wasn’t that smart. By that time I had a lot of biology, vertebrae zoology, en vertebrae zoology, so I ended up being a biology teacher, phys ed, health and a little bit of science teacher. Interviewer: “Where did you teach?” I started out in a little place outside of Elkhart. I went back up to live in south Bend because some the old players, Blue Sox, had a basketball team and I wanted to play a couple of years of basketball, so I taught in a little country school in Jimtown, we were the “Jimtown Jimmy’s”, but it was a country school and there were very nice families there, you know, just farm families. 30:23 We were just on the south end of Elkhart where the railroad went through and some of the colored lived on the south of the railroad, so we had those players, and those kids, along with the white kids, I had some 18 �real good teams, track teams, volleyball teams and basketball. We had a good little school, and I enjoyed that a lot. Interviewer: “Did you stay at that one school or did you move?” I was there for twelve years and then my dad died. He went to bed one night and never go out, and then I went back to live with my mom because I didn’t want her to have to move and everything, and then I worked at Leo High School in--just east of Fort Wayne. 31:09 My old superintendent in Jimtown now the superintendent down in East Allen, so he called on the phone up there during the daytime and the office lady answered and when he was in Jimtown he was the principal and then superintendent , well she recognized his voice on the telephone, so she came down to get me to tell me I had a phone call, so I went back, walking through the hall, and I said, “Who is it?”. She said, “It’s Roberts”, and I said, “What does he want?” She said, “you just tell him you can’t come”, so he wanted me to come down to East Allen, so I ended up in East Allen, and it was closer to home. I could drive every day. Interviewer: “Now, as you were teaching and coaching and doing all of this, did people know that you played professional baseball?” Yeah, because some of them remembered because Elkhart’s just a little ways from South Bend and Mishawaka, so they use to come and watch us play. 32:10 Then when we went back, we still had a couple games in South Bend because every year or two they would all get together and put on a little exhibition for the local people you know, because it was the newspapers that would kind of want us to do some of that stuff. Of course one night half of Jimtown came over to watch because they had seen some of it before. I just had a good life all the way through. 19 �Interviewer: “You become an educator, and you’re teaching in a period when they start to open up things in schools for women to do sports and this kind of thing, so were you connected with that?” Yeah, we started out; of course half the principals didn’t want the girls playing anyhow. When I started teaching, the first thing I said to myself, I said, “these kids are going to play”, so I had a real good principal though, that Mr. Sheets, he was the one that hired me, and he had three daughters and that helped. 33:16 He left and became the superintendent and then I had Mr. Jones and he had two daughters and that helped. I got those kids in the gym playing volleyball games and basketball games with just the little local schools around. We had maybe six games a year is all to start with and we were out there playing. I had a couple friends that I said we played basketball in South Bend and they were school teachers, so we played—I played Cynthia Sawyer’s kids in south Bend, they were on the west side of town and they would drive over. This is one funny thing, Cynthia Sawyer came over to have a track meet with her kids and a lot of them were colored and some whites, and then I had the same thing, so they came over in two cars. 34:08 All these kids getting out of these two cars and my kids were sitting out there in the grass waiting for them you know, because we had already warmed up somewhat, and those kids are getting out of the car and my kid, half of them were colored and these other guys got out of the car and they said, “my God they’re all black, what are we going to do?” They were scared seeing these city colored kids coming out there, but we beat them. You know, it’s funny how they acted sometimes. One time I had them up to the lake, my GAAA kids, and half of them were colored and they were sitting up there in the yard under the trees and the other white kids were out there on the piers and I said, “How 20 �come you guys are not out there swimming in the sun?” She said, “We don’t want to get a sunburn”. Well here dumb me, I didn’t even know they get sunburns, so it was an education having them and they were just good kids. I can’t believe how—see, I just lucked into all that stuff. 35:06 Interviewer: “Did you coach girls teams or women’s teams? As you were saying, the women were going to play did you do both? Did you coach boys teams as well as women’s teams?” No, you couldn’t get into the boys world, that’s all there was to it, no way under the sun. I had to fight to get the gym once a week afterwards. Then we had a bowling league and we went into town and went bowling, the girls. Then the boys were mad because they couldn’t go in and go bowling, because I wasn’t going to take them, they were boys. I’d take the girls because they wouldn’t let us in their gym; I’m not going to let them in the bowling alley. Interviewer: “Did this get a little easier over the course of time? Did people get used to having girls play and this kind of stuff?” Yeah, it took a while though, but finally you know, the kids I had come back from college and stuff and they had been playing a little bit in college and it just grew out. 36:09 Another thing, they finally got a women’s advisory board down at the IHASSA down in Indianapolis, well we had to run for that, so I talked to my principal about it and he urged me to go into it and to write a letter to all the principals around the area. Well, I did what I was told and I got voted on down there, so I was on that first advisory board and I think I was on it about six years or so. They finally made this one lady a cocommissioner, now that helped and now the girls were ready to play and this was in the 21 �late sixties probably that we finally go t noticed down there in Indianapolis. We were at the GAA was kind of the statewide and we had our own tournaments and then the state finally recognized that too. 37:05 They couldn’t hide it too much longer, so then title nine came in and we were off and running. Interviewer: “So when you were playing, did you think of yourselves at all as sort of pioneers or people who were opening things up for women?” We didn’t know we were pioneers until fifty years later. A pioneer only means you’re old I guess, I don’t know. Interviewer: “It means you’re first, but it does seem there’s a pretty good continuity here. You’re playing in this women’s league and you come back and you stay connected with sports and as a teacher you’re actively involved in getting more things for girls to do and building that up, and that’s drawing on your own experience at least knowing they can go do it.” Girls can do anything; just turn them loose, that’s all you got to say. They’re intelligent you know and they don’t take much guff from anybody anymore. They’re raised different today and it’s a different world. Just think, I got to be part of it. 38:20 Interviewer: “Now, do you look back over that whole experience of playing professional ball, what do you think the main effects of that were for you? What did it do for you?” It opened you up a little bit to fight for what you wanted. I was lucky enough, I had good principals and I was surrounded with good people. A lot of athletic women—you don’t know how to say all that stuff. I think it was the right time or I never would have gotten into that and if they didn’t move me into Fort Wayne I probably wouldn’t have even 22 �known they existed. I lucked out there and I happened to be the right age. I wasn’t too smart, but I sure knew when to take advantage of something. 39:16 Interviewer: “You managed to become a science teacher. I think you’re pretty qualified and smart. I would be willing to bet that anyway. Anything else you would like to add to the record here before we close out the interview?” Interviewer: “Were you connected at all with the League of Their Own movie and the beginnings of the players association?” Yeah, we got that notice in a newsletter, I think, that they were going to do all that stuff and we just needed—a couple of us decided—Sue Kidd was still in South Bend, she went along and Jean Harding went, a couple of them around. You got in a car and went to New York. Interviewer: “Cooperstown?” Yeah, but first you had to go to Chicago. There’s one good thing about that, in Chicago, I was trying to think of the area where we were. 40:18 Interviewer: “You were in Skokie.” Yeah Skokie. In Skokie we were out to this ball diamond and we all had red shirts on with big numbers on them you know, and everything and we were all working out, running around the field’ hitting fly balls, and throwing and catching and this big bus pulls out there along the side over there. Of course we had a fence around there and this big bus comes and it stops out there and these big guys, big burly guys, get off that bus and here comes a couple other women off, but they were far away, and these guys walk way around the outfield and they just stand out there. 41:08 We were watching them and wondering what they were there for and here comes Madonna walking down off the 23 �sidewalk and of course we were all looking at her. Rosy O’Donnell was there and she was already out there talking to us and everything. Gina Davis, we didn’t see her there. She never was up there. They had the little sister though, Lori Petty, she was there, so that was our introduction to-Interviewer: “Hollywood” Yeah, they came in and landed at the airport and she got off there and I guess nobody was supposed to know she was in town and she had all this rig-a-ma-roll with her, but she made a nice entrance. She was a pretty good ball player too, I mean, she was one of the better ones. Interviewer: “Did you have to teach her a lot?” Not all that, you could see she’s athletic when you see her dance and that and she could do about anything she wanted to. 42:14 Interviewer: “Some of the other players talked about going there and they said she was in good shape, but she didn’t know how to play ball, but she learned and she worked at it.” She wasn’t too bad and probably the best one, because she use to play some, was Rosy O’Donnell, but Madonna wasn’t too bad though. Interviewer: “You also went to Cooperstown and were part of the stuff they filmed there too?” Yeah, we went there and there was a thing that happened there the last night at Cooperstown. Penny Marshal wanted to finish up shooting, so we were there until about four or four thirty in the morning and we had to walk down this ramp you know, and this little room, they had a glassed in case right in the middle of the room, so you either had to 24 �go around to the right or the left as you came down the ramp. We came down that ramp I bet twenty-four times. Penny had to keep reshooting everything, so I always went around the back of the little ramp, so I wasn’t in the way of the film too much because I didn’t want to be--anyway I’m going around that back. 43:22 Anyhow, Gina Davis, the old Gina Davis, that took her place was going to walk around that way also, and she would see her sister on the other side and they would finally embrace when they saw each other, in the movie stuff. Well anyhow, were walking around this little thing and then we walk back up again and after she’d get partway up there, she had a little flask under her arm and she’d take a little nip out of that flask and then we’d walk down that ramp again and around that thing and sometimes if she had to hesitate back there she’s take a nip from the flask. I wasn’t too far behind her and thinking, no wonder we’re down here until four thirty in the morning. She had to empty that thing almost because she was real busy on it. 44:15 She was something else, I’ll tell you. She tried to catch a ball out there and she broke a fingernail and then she had to stop and the whole film would have to start over on that. She should have been the whole movie herself, I’ll tell you. That was the old Gina Davis. That was funny. Nobody else probably told you that one. Interviewer: “What did you think of the movie?” I thought it pretty well had a lot of truth in it, but a couple things—they never fell over the fence and came up with a hot dog in their mouth or something like that, but that was Pepper Pare, Pepper pare made some of that stuff, but that’s Pepper Pare, she always had to have her two cents worth in. There’s a lot of them that got to have their two cents worth in, but that makes everything. 45:15 Interviewer: “What do you think they did a particularly good job with?” 25 �In the movie, it was a pretty fair story because that little boy that was in the movie, we had a little boy on our team. Jean Faut had a little boy, little Larry, that traveled with us and we would pick on him somewhat, we tried not to because if you were picking on him the other girls would tell you to quit, but we teased him, and Jean, she really, she kept her cool, picking on her kid, but he was a nice kid and Jean was—you couldn’t beat Jean Faut, that’s all there was to it and Karl was alright. Sometimes it wasn’t so good having your husband managing you, and Jean had some hard times with that, but hey, that’s life. When you’re that close together all the time, twenty-four hours a day. 46:16 Interviewer: “It really does sound like a great experience.” Your whole life, you sit down and—I never talked about my whole life before, but the best part of it, one of the best parts, was playing ball. You can’t beat playing ball and meeting the people that you meet and learning the geography of the country and just doing what you could do. It’s a free country and you could just do anything. Nobody can stop you if you don’t want them to. Interviewer: “Now you get to come back to these reunions and having been through my second one now, they are really something. Had you been going to the reunions since the beginning?” I hit everyone, and one year we had one—we had a meeting in St. Petersburg and the same year we went to Cooperstown. I was all ready—I sent my money in down there to Florida and then two of the people I was going to go to Florida with decided they were going to Cooperstown. 47:23 Well, there goes my ride down to Florida, so I rode with them and went over to Cooperstown and that’s why I was in Cooperstown when they 26 �were doing some of that, but that was all right. I wasn’t on the board yet or anything, things that didn’t bother too much. Interviewer: “Unless we got something else here guys, we are done. We are done and thank you very much for coming and talking to us.” Thank you 27 �28 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League was started by Philip Wrigley, owner of the Chicago Cubs, during World War II to fill the void left by the departure of most of the best male baseball players for military service. Players were recruited from across the country, and the league was successful enough to be able to continue on after the war. The league had teams based in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan, and operated between 1943 and 1954. The 1954 season ended with only the Fort Wayne, South Bend, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Rockford teams remaining. The League gave over 600 women athletes the opportunity to play professional baseball. Many of the players went on to successful careers, and the league itself provided an important precedent for later efforts to promote women's sports. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-58)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Sports for women World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Oral history Baseball players--Minnesota Baseball players--Indiana Baseball players--Wisconsin Baseball players--Michigan Baseball players--Illinois Baseball for women--United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-10-02 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58_MLBaumgartner Title A name given to the resource Baumgartner, Mary Louise "Wimp" (Interview transcript and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Baumgartner, Mary Louise Description An account of the resource Mary Louise "Wimp" Baumgartner was born in Fort Wayne, Indiana in 1930. She played in the AAGPBL from 1949 to 1954 as a catcher for Peoria and South Bend. She went to college in the off season, and after the league folded she became a teacher and coach for girls' athletic teams, and was actively involved in the promotion of girls' sports in Indiana. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Baseball for women--United States Baseball Sports for women World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Baseball players--Illinois Baseball players--Indiana Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-08-05 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-55)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/885e798f2c5db0067998b6b186126e7e.mp4 1cdd1f854788cebb88093a4f27f244ff https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1958047fa059e72c78cd9f4dc12236a7.pdf 75c5a8c45ae94e2ce8396c0789cf95d1 PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW HARRY (BUD) BAXTER Born: Detroit, MI Resides: Grand Rapids, MI Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, August 30, 2011 Interviewer: Mr. Baxter why don’t we start by telling us where you were born and what you were doing before you got in the army? I was born in Detroit and moved to Grand Rapids when I was about one year old, or less, and I lived here all my life. I went to the University of Michigan and graduated from Central High School and I went to the University of Michigan where I met my wife and I brought her home for a week-end and my mother fell in love with her, and I had no choice from then on, but to marry her. Interviewer: What did your father do for a living? He was vice president of the All American Home Security Bank here and moved to Grand Rapids by Behr Manning, abrasives [?] and he changed to banking after that. Interviewer: During what years were you at Michigan? I started in 1941 and I went into the army in 1942. I returned in 1946 and completed in 1948. 1:07 Interviewer: What were you majoring in? Civil Engineering, I’m a Civil Engineer. Interviewer: What made you decide to enlist in the army? Well, there was a pretty high demand and I was pretty high up on the scale as far as being drafted, so I just took the bull by the horns and enlisted. 1 �Interviewer: Can you kind of describe that process of enlistment and getting into training? The first and foremost thing they did is we went down to Kalamazoo, to the armory down there, and they had this physical inspection, so we walked around in our underwear with all these women around and that was strange. We were only nineteen years old and to have somebody—and from there I was transferred to Camp Atterbury, Indiana. 2:04 That is wrong, that was coming out, it was in Missouri, Fort Leonard Wood, so there you go. I went to fort Leonard Wood in Missouri, where I took my basic training and then I volunteered for officer training and was sent to Fort Belvoir, Virginia to do that. Interviewer: What was the basic training experience like for you? Fort Leonard Wood was the spot in the world where you could stand up to your neck and wasn’t choked to death on dust [?]. It was absolutely—the climate there was terrible. It was in the middle of the Ozark Mountains, but we had some good officers and we had lots of fun and learned a lot about shooting and how to handle a rifle and take care of it, and also, how to build bridges and prepare roads etc. It was really a growth experience for all of us; all of us had a good time. 3:14 Interviewer: At that stage where you already sort of directed toward the engineers or was this just something that everybody was doing, bridge building and roads? It was engineer training that I was in from the beginning. I don’t know how that happened, but I was in the pre-engineering school in Ann Arbor, so I think that started the whole thing going. Interviewer: Did the army; did you have to take tests and things to qualify or did you just get sent there? 2 �If you could read and if you could see you were in. Interviewer: You were in, but to put people into an engineering training kind of thing? I don’t think—they just selected—for example, a friend of mine was a lawyer and he was in a mule pack outfit cleaning out the stalls. In the war, you did what needed to be done. Interviewer: Let’s go back there to the training process. You were at Fort Leonard Wood and about how long were you there? Do you remember? 4:11 About eight or nine weeks Interviewer: What time of the year was it? I started in December of 1942 and got out in about March or April and then I went to Fort Belvoir Virginia and got there in time for the real hot summer. Fort Belvoir was not known for having cool weather in the summer. Interviewer: Can you describe your time there? That was ninety days of pure training. I mean, it was absolutely very rigorous and they tried to weed out the most men that they possibly could. They had very difficult things for you to do and learn, so a lot of the guys didn’t make it. It was just far enough into the war that the initial impetus was into getting officers. They needed more engineers and infantry, so they were really pushing for that. Fort Belvoir is primarily for engineering. 5:13 Interviewer: What kinds of training exercises did you have that were particularly tough? Triangulation—some of the guys had no idea of how to handle any kind of instrument for surveying, even rudimentary like we did in the army, so that was tough on some of them 3 �and another thing was map reading. I was surprised at how few people had actually never read a map in their whole life and here they are in the army in their early twenties or late teens and they had no idea how to locate themselves on a map. The first washouts were those guys, and another one was those that didn’t have any mechanical ability and couldn’t sense how things went together. They were interested—we had a tac officer that had worked on the Alcan Highway in Alaska, and he was a wonderful man. He was very interested in getting good students and making good soldiers out of us, good officers. 6:17 Interviewer: How much physical training did you get while you were there? Physical all the way, I mean long marches with full packs and PT every morning. Interviewer: Did you work with heavy equipment or mostly measurement and that kind of thing? We put bridges together, and we built bridges, floating bridges etc., how to put them tighter, so when we became real officers under combat conditions we’d know how to build them. None of us realized we were going to build them in combat. We just thought we were going to build them and nobody would be shooting at us, but that didn’t happen. Interviewer: When did you finish at Fort Belvoir? Ninety days after I got there, June or July, around there. 7:10 Interviewer: Where did you go next? I was stationed—sent to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri---wrong, wrong; it was Camp Carson, Colorado. Camp Carson, Colorado, I stayed there and I was tied to the 171st Engineer combat battalion. It was a brand new outfit and Lt. Colonel Kesey; he was a 4 �Major at that time and was our commanding officer. I made some real good friends and correspond with them. I still correspond with the widows of some of the guys. Interviewer: What rank were you at the time? A 2nd Lieutenant Interviewer: And what kind of duties did you have or what were you preparing for? Well, we had these guys that were just brand new recruits in the army and we were teaching them to be soldiers, how to shoot and build bridges and how to build roads. How to do the things that engineer combat battalions do, so this was a brand new outfit. There was a 171st Engineer Combat Battalion and there was a 172nd Engineer Combat Battalion that was not assigned to Camp Carson and they were nearby. 8:32 They were the ones that when the Battle of the Bulge comes the Germans roll right over them. They were bivouacked. They just rolled right through them, and ten percent of the guys were killed. That was a tough thing. We were sitting four or five miles away and were completely clear, we didn’t get anything. Interviewer: We’re getting a little bit ahead of ourselves here; we’ll want to get there. Are there particular events or memories from out in Colorado that stand out in your mind or characterize the unit or the people in it? Well, we had good—I was just a platoon leader at the time, we had three squads, and it was really a growth experience for me too being young etc. The fellow officers, all of us had a good time teaching the guys what to do and how to be soldiers and take care of themselves. 9:27 5 �Interviewer: Did you have any experience with non-com’s in the unit or was everybody green? Everybody was pretty green, but I did have—the company I was in, the sergeant was from the Philippians and he had been in the army a long time and he thought all of us “shave tails” were not worth a darn you know. That’s the thing; you have to learn how little you know when you first start out in something like this. Interviewer: When did you leave Camp Carson then? We went on maneuvers in Tennessee and we must have gone there, probably, in about December or January. We stayed there for—the biggest thing we did there, that I had anything to do with anyway, was repairing a bridge that got damaged by a tank in a maneuver area that we had to repair. We had to send it into an iron works in Tennessee to get trusses repaired, but in the meantime we had to bolster it up from the underneath. 10:39 It was really kind of fun to do and fortunately I had some two or three men that were excellent carpenters and they were able to see what to do and how to do it. It was really a help to have guys that had been in construction. Interviewer: How large were the maneuvers in Tennessee? What size the units involved were, and what you were working with? I couldn’t tell you because I have no recollection of that at all. Interviewer: Big enough for someone to have a tank. Well, they had tanks and they had a whole division there on these maneuvers, and they were given exercises to do and we were too, but we were finally narrowed down to just repairing the bridges. 11:22 They got damaged by the heavy equipment going over them. 6 �Interviewer: Where did you go after Tennessee? From there we were transferred to the New England shore to embark for Europe. We landed in Liverpool and we got there. We must have gotten on the ship—let’s see, DDay was in June, and we embarked just about the time D-Day was because we were on the ocean when D-Day occurred. We went to England, to Liverpool, and then we were stationed down by London. 12:11 Interviewer: What do you remember about the trip across the ocean? It was the largest convoy in the war up to that point and then we zig zagged across and it took us forever. Interviewer: What kind of a ship were you on? It was a navy transport and it was the best ship of all. We had a miniature aircraft carrier and two or three destroyers and there, I’m just guessing now, twenty-five or thirty big freighters going with us. We had a couple scares with subs, the sirens went off and the destroyers were all over the place dropping depth charges. I don’t know if we ever got any or not, but sure scared the living daylights out of whoever it was they were after. Interviewer: What was the weather like on the crossing? Pretty calm, pretty calm, coming back was different, but going over was fine.13:04 Interviewer: What kind of experience did you have in England while you were there? Well, all we did there was get our equipment. We went over without any trucks or anything, so we had to get trucks and mortars and rifles, no, I guess we took our rifles with us. Other than that, pretty much, we had to get all our equipment and kitchen equipment. 7 �Interviewer: How long were you in England then? We landed on Omaha Beach I guess, thirty or sixty days after D-Day and thank goodness we didn’t go in on D-Day. Interviewer: When you were in England did you have to stay mostly in camp or on base? Did you get to go into London or see anything? Yeah, we went into London when we got a couple of short days off. We tried to get all the guys to do that, but when it got close to when we were going to leave, of course, all these were canceled and we had to stay right there for a couple of weeks. 14:15 Interviewer: What impression did you have of London at the time? I didn’t really see very much of it and I don’t recall anything other than it was a big town and I got to see Big Ben and the House of Commons. It was kind of fun just wandering around all the places that you read about. Interviewer: How much contact did you have with the English people while you were there? Going over I didn’t have any to speak of, but coming back—my wife’s father was born in England and he had a brother that lived over there, so coming back, after the war was over, I went and spent a week and a half with him. We just had a ball I’ll tell you, and as a result of that contact, we had some of our first cousins coming over and staying with us subsequent years, so it was fun and I made a contact. 15:05 Interviewer: You’re landing on Omaha Beach and at that point, what sort of a place was it? What did it look like and what impression did you have? At that time the floating dock was done. We went over in an LST, we went up to shore and landed, but by that time the underwater obstacles were pretty well removed and it 8 �was a cup of tea. The only impression I have of that is, we landed and there was, again I was just a platoon leader, and the beach master yells out, “Who owns this?” And there was a big truck, one prepared to put the floating—floats in the water to put a floating bridge across, a Brockway truck it was called, and he said, “Who owns this thing?” I’m standing there and I said, “it’s mine”, and the company commander of the next company over, a friend, he was a 1st Lieutenant, and he said, “no. It’s mine”, so the two of us sided and we kept that truck during the whole war. 16:15 That helped us a little bit time to time. His company used it some and my company used it some, so it was kind of fun. Interviewer: Once you landed then, what did you do? We repaired roads right at the beginning and then we transferred down to the—down south to the 29th Division to Brest. We didn’t do much there because a few days later Brest surrendered a day or two later, so we were just repairing roads etc.. Interviewer: After the surrender of Brest, then what did you do? We were with the 9th Army and then we started going east and we were up—the British were north and the 9th Army was meeting just south of them, and we were corps troops and General Gillem was the General in charge of the 13th Corps. 17:17 He was a civil engineer, so he had a soft spot in his heart for civil engineers, and he came over a couple times and met with us and talked. It was an interesting time to be—and we were loaned out to a different division if a division was going to make a crossing and they were kind of held in reserve, we were put out in front, so all the casualties would be ours and they would reserve their people as much as possible because they were an integral part of the division, but we were lucky, we had some casualties in bridge building, but not a great deal. 18:04 9 �Interviewer: Where were you building bridges? The summer and fall of 1944, where were you? The Len [?] Canal we built over and the Roer River we built over. We put troops across the Rhine. Interviewer: Let’s back up to the first time your unit goes into action or under fire. Can you just describe that experience? It scared the living daylights out of all of us. When people are shooting at you what are you supposed to do? You can’t shoot back because you’re working doing things, that’s a tough thing to do. Our guys really did well and our losses were—we lost a lot of men sometimes, but most of them were just slightly wounded and could come back. Our actual casualties were relatively small. 19:05 Interviewer: What kind of fire were you taking? Was it artillery or machine guns? It started out small arms and then the longer range stuff, mortars and artillery. Interviewer: Where were the American troops, the infantry, at the time? They were waiting to get across the bridge that we were building. Sometimes we would have trouble getting over and they would start building a bridgehead, so we would build a bridge before they got much done. Interviewer: Did you ever have guys that got over the river before the infantry got there? Our guys? Interviewer: Yeah No Interviewer: They didn’t send you in like Revolutionary War sappers then? 10 �No, the only thing we had to do sometimes, as officer, we had to go to see how many units of bridge we had to get yet to make a floating bridge we could cross. We would sneak over at night, or just at dawn, so we could see how big the river was and estimate how we were going to build it and where we were going to build it. 20:02 Interviewer: Can you describe the process of bridge building at one of these places? What did you do? The first thing we had to do was get a cable across the river. That was so you could tie all the floating sections on. Interviewer: How did you get the cable across? We usually rolled it across, but we used mortars on the Rhine because that was a big river. The ones in the canal were small things and we-Interviewer: Once you get the cable across, what do you do? Then you put the sections in one at a time and you put a cable through it up to the line and shove them out. The cable, of course, would sag and you would have to adjust the length of the cables connecting them, so you get the bridge straight. The cable would curve, but the bridge had to be straight. At least you hoped it was straight. 21:00 Interviewer: How long would it take to put up a bridge, say over a canal or something like that? Not the Rhine, but something smaller. Three or four hours with luck. We had one incident where a plane came over and dropped a bomb on us, and that scared the living daylights out of everybody and killed a couple of our guys, but once we got rid of the damaged stuff, we easily finished it up. Interviewer: What kind of equipment was your unit using at that point? 11 �We would get a M2 Treadway bridge rig. The Treadway Company would supply the trucks that would take these inflated rubber floats and put them in the water. Then you would put a saddle on top of them and they floated this way. The floats went this way and we were building the bridge this other way, so we had the floats going this way with the saddles on top and we would connect them with beams. It was all worked out and worked beautifully. 22:15 We had bailey bridges that we built on the Autobahn, and they were, of course, pushed across from the other side. You built enough over here to counterbalance what you did and push them across, so you didn’t have to go on both sides. The reason we had to repair the bridges on the Autobahn was because we had bombed them out, so the Germans wouldn’t be able to use it for stockpiling their equipment. Interviewer: Were you kind of in action or at work pretty constantly in the fall of 1944? In and out, in and out, we had a lot of road repair work. The 9th Army was adjacent to the British and, in fact, the Guards Armored Division of immediately next to us and at that time I think I was a company commander then. I was a 1st Lieutenant and then they made me company commander. 23:10 Then I—we would swap engineers or officers, we would swap out, we got a couple of their 2nd Lieutenants and we sent a couple 2nd Lieutenants up to them, and the one 2nd Lieutenant or I, from the Guards Armored division, British, that man, a driver, and he had he had a kind of small weapons protector with armor around it and a Jeep. So, he had two drivers, a Batman and himself. I said, “send all the equipment back and, you can keep the Jeep and the Jeep driver. Send the others back to your unit, we don’t use those kind of people here”. “No Batman?” I said, 12 �“no Batman”, which is like a Valet. He was just saying Lieutenant, so he was much surprised at that—an officer couldn’t have a Batman. 24:04 Interviewer: How did he adjust once he knew? He was fine, and he was a good guy. Interviewer: Where was your unit when the Battle of the Bulge started? Were you in Belgium at that point? We were in Holland at that point, I think, and that was the only time we had at all in foxholes was when they pulled out unit out and put a little company in to replace them and we were spread out long distances apart. It was scary, but the Germans were just as skinny as we were, so they were scared too. We did nothing, both sides didn’t shoot and if they shot at us we shot back, but we didn’t shoot very often and they didn’t shoot very often at us either. Interviewer: You were not in a sector where they were actually attacking? It was all up north, up towards the bulge. 25:05 Those guys up there really caught it, man, they were—they surrounded Bastogne there, the Germans did, and that was nuts. What was that general’s name? Interviewer: McAuliffe, now you were—what else do you remember about that time in foxholes there? That was one of the worst experience you can have in your life. You can’t bathe properly and the food is scarce and it poses problems as what to do. We weren’t there long enough to get a long-term adjustment. One interesting experience, we had a P51 got his engine shot out and came in and landed in front of us and didn’t have his wheels down, but he bellied in. We pulled him out and it was just as dawn was breaking, so we had to 13 �keep him there with us one whole day. He couldn’t believe how primitive foxhole living was. He said, “you guys live crude, this is crude”. 26:17 I tried to persuade him to say and spend the night, part of the night with us anyway, because our mess sergeant arrived about nine o’clock at night with a hot meal and he said, “no, no, just let me use your Jeep. I’ll just go back”, and I said, “ok, you can take my Jeep and my Jeep driver, but you have to take two other enlisted men with you and I want those three guys to come back all showered and shaved and with clean clothes”. He said, “oh yeah, that’s a deal”, so they came back about two o’clock in the morning all clean and everybody in the outfit went around smelling them because they smelled so good. Interviewer: Do you remember how long you were in the lines before you pulled out again? It wasn’t very long, maybe ten days. 27:05 Interviewer: And then what did you do after that? Back to repairing bridges and fixing roads. Engineer combat battalions are used for attack purposes, to build bridges and take assault troops across big bodies of water etc. Interviewer: Was that going on pretty regularly there? There were a lot of little canals and the Roer River, for example, that’s where they blew the dams out up above it, and it was kind of a small stream when we first looked at it, but when we went to build a bridge over it, it was a pretty roaring torrent because the Germans had blown the dams out up above. Interviewer: At about what point did you get to the Rhine? No idea when, that escapes me completely, but we—when the first Americans went across down south, there was a bridge that was left standing, Remagen, we were up north 14 �with the 9th Army against the British, so we were there shortly after they were there. 28:27 In fact, the sent several of us down to look at the Remagen bridge and we came back and I wrote a letter to Arlene and I said, “gee, I saw a bridge”, and she was able to surmise where I was. That was interesting, the condition of the bridge had been severely damaged by artillery, but they managed to scrape enough together to hold the tanks and get them over. It was really great. Interviewer: Can you describe your experience then in bridging the Rhine? We didn’t build a bridge on the Rhine. We started one, but somebody else came in to finish it, a big construction company. That was a huge undertaking, big stuff. 29:09 Interviewer: Once you got across the Rhine, what were you doing then? The same thing, bridges and roads, repair roads and build small bridges. Repair those over the Autobahn and the Autobahn went right—the course—the 9th Army was just about over the Autobahn and going pretty much along. I was amazed at that Autobahn because we had nothing like that at that time until Eisenhower, when he was president, got them in. We didn’t have a freeway in this country, other than the Pennsylvania Turnpike, I guess, it was the first. Anyway, I credit, we really copied what the Germans had done, and they were beautifully done. Interviewer: What else do you remember about Germany when you were there? Clean, the people were intelligent, well informed, and nice people for the most part, those that were not Nazis. The Nazis, of course, Hitler, altered their minds a good bit. It was terrible some of the things they did. 30:19 Interviewer: Do you remember meeting anyone who admitted to being a Nazi or still showing that kind of attitude? 15 �Nobody and if they were they never admitted it, nobody. They knew immediately that once Hitler was dead, that was it. Interviewer: Before the war ended you’re operating in Germany. How much resistance did there seem to be? Were there people in the rural areas that were still shooting at you or that kind of thing? Nope, it didn’t happen and once VE Day came-Interviewer: Before VE Day. It had kind of eased off a lot toward the end and the last couple three weeks were just a piece of cake. Interviewer: How far easterly had you gotten by VE Day? We got up to—we built a bridge across the river, and I’m trying to think where it was. 31:26 I can’t think of the name of the river now, anyway we built a bridge there and the Russians came and they were pretty cruel people, the Russians were. It was a horse Cavalry outfit and they didn’t like the fact that we were letting the German people cross the bridge, come from their side over to our side and heading back west. Interviewer: So, you’re far enough, so you basically made it to what later became the dividing line between the allied zone and theirs. I can’t remember the name of that river. Interviewer: Was it the Elbe? The Elbe, that was it Interviewer: That’s where you had your first contact, along there? Yeah, very good. 32:16 16 �Interviewer: What do you—about how many Germans were there trying to get across the river? Do you have an impression of that scene? Hundreds of them Interviewer: How long was it between when you got the bridge up and when the Russians showed up? Twenty-four hours, and, boy, a lot of people went across that bridge. Interviewer: What was there condition? What do you remember about them? They were all refugees leaving their houses and home trying to escape the Russians. They were scared to death of the Russians. There was some justification, the Russians really—of course it was a horse Cavalry outfit that came up first and they wanted them to stop immediately, but the troops came across and we negotiated with them a little bit and we kept it open for a while. Finally they got guys out there and anybody that was in the water was machine-gunned. They rode their horses into the water and they were—we weren’t used to anything like that. Interviewer: How long were you up along the Rhine? 33:17 Not long, and we transferred back to Paris, to Versailles. My job then, I was a captain at that time, and I was S2 of the battalion, and I was in charge of pumping out the cesspools in the Versailles area. Interviewer: What condition was that part of France in at that point? What do you remember about it? They were anti-American, most of them for some reason, and particularly the youth. You got a real thing; in fact, we had a couple officers that went out and were beaten up by the French kids in mobs. They were—we soon learned not to go alone in Paris. We were in 17 �Versailles, but we would take the metro in to town once and a while. In fact, I took lessons at the Sorbonne in French and had fun. Interviewer: What else do you remember about Paris at that point? 34:19 Very metropolitan and hadn’t changed a bit, but the French tried—anybody that fraternized with the Germans, they tried to get them ostracized for some reason or other, and they tried to blackball everything that they did. That became the same thing the Nazis were doing. Anybody who was a Nazi, nobody would fraternize with them, so it was interesting. They were trying very hard to get back to normal, and tough to do. The Nazis weren’t easy when they were occupying any area. They were very harsh. Interviewer: How much visible damage was there from the war at that point? There was very little, surprisingly. I don’t think we bombed Paris hardly at all and Versailles wasn’t bombed. I was stationed in the small stables for the palace there, that’s where my office was and that had been a school for French army officers. 35:28 Of course there was nothing in the castle because those painting and all the art work had been removed for safety and the gardens in front were not as well maintained as they were later on when I went over later, five or ten years later. It was kind of interesting to go back and see it subsequently. Interviewer: How long were you stationed there? December, and I got there two or three weeks after D-Day—I mean after VE Day. Interviewer: You went back across the ocean by boat, and you said that was not an easy trip? 36:25 We ran into a hurricane out there and we had to turn around and go back. We were in a liberty ship that was converted for troops. What they did was they put up ballasts on the 18 �deck and when we got these big waves the boat would just go to the side and hang and go back to the other side and hang because the load was not balanced. It should have been below, but it was up, and we had bunks down below, which were lightweight, and the weight was all up on the deck. Somebody felt very badly about that and the skipper said- and I happened to be on the bridge with him one time and he said, “captain, this thing isn’t going to make it, we can’t go this way anymore”, and we were bucking those waves, so he said, “we have to turn around and go back and I’m scared to death to turn it”. We were in a trough turning around and we took a long time turning around. He said, “if we don’t turn around we’re going to break the ship apart”, so we turned around and went back and we ran out of food coming, but we turned around finally. 37:23 It was an interesting trip back, but we made it to Newport News. Interviewer: Then what did you do after that? Were you discharged right away? I went from there to Camp Atterbury, Indiana, was discharged. A colonel was there and all we field grade officers, captains and below, were in this room, there were a few majors there as a matter of fact, and the colonel stood up and he said, “now gentlemen, my job is to recruit people for the reserves, and as soon as you sign up you’re free to go”. My wife was sitting outside with the motor running, and it was New Years Eve day, so this was ten o’clock in the morning and it lasted until two o’clock in the afternoon. I finally said, “what the heck”, so I signed up and that’s why I got called back to Korea. 38:16 Interviewer: One other thing that you mentioned before. Back when you were serving in Europe etc., there was a point where you worked with or you encountered a dump truck unit that was African American soldiers? 19 �Yes we did Interviewer: What do you remember about that or about that unit? Well, on the Roer River we were preparing to lay the gravel down and they weren’t filled with gravel, the trucks weren’t and I’m not going to say any more. Interviewer: They didn’t make any other impression on you they were just guys driving trucks? Yes, driving trucks Interviewer: Once you left the army, what did you do? I went back to school and finished college. By that time I was married and had a child. I graduated from the University of Michigan with a degree in civil engineering and I went to work for S.A. Morman Co, which he ended up owning and that’s the extent, but I did get called back for a couple of years duty in Korea. 39:23 Interviewer: Can you tell us about that? In 1950 I was stationed again in Camp Carson, so I went out there. We had just built a house in Grand Rapids, and we rented that out and Arlene and, by that time we had two children, and they came with me. We went out there and we had made some friends there from when I was there before and they found an apartment for us, so we moved into that. We stayed there until I went on maneuvers in Tennessee and then we went back to Camp Carson and then I was sent over to Japan and assigned to the 1st Cavalry Division's engineers, and I was a company commander there. 40:22 Interviewer: When did you get over to Korea itself? After about a month or six weeks in northern Japan, where the 1st Cavalry Division was stationed, the engineers were sent over to build POW camps. We went over there and 20 �built nine, or started nine anyway when I was there, but we finished only one or two before I left. Then I went back to Japan because they were concerned about the Russians. I don’t know if you know, but these Russian owned islands come down to the northern Japanese Islands and they were worried that they would come in and take over. They wanted to know the escape load and how much load the bridges would take. Well these things were built of concrete and they used straw sometimes to reinforce them, you know, so it was just a pure guess as to what they would hold. My reputation was made because the division commander, and I can’t think of his name right now; anyway, he was a general. 41:28 He would say we got to do this and this and this and said, ”Baxter you’re figuring out how much the lead capacity is for these bridges, what about this bridge right here?” I said, “Well sir”, I said, “if you’re going to put tanks over it, you should never send tanks over it because it will never take it”. This colonel, who was one of his commanding officers said, “I’ll put my tank over that, it will hold up under anything”, and down it went. After that everyone said, “if nobody objects, we’ll ask Captain Baxter to tell us how”, and that was kind of fun. Interviewer: What was your impression of Japan at that time? What did it look like and how were the people? One of the interesting things I did was, I went down to Nagasaki and took a look at that and that was really an eye opener for me. I flew down a couple times, down to Tokyo on business and in fact, I was going down one time and Shatoshi Airport, which was a Japanese naval airstrip. 42:34 It was twenty thousand feet, a long runway, and I was in a DC3 and so you got a stretcher, this was a medical evacuation DC3, so I got a guy sitting next to me, he was a corporal and he said, “you’re Bud Baxter, you use to live in 21 �Grand Rapids, Michigan, I lived on Orchard Hill, two doors from you”. He was about five years younger than I am, and I moved away from there when I was about nine years old, so I didn’t remember him. Here you are—you never want to do anything wrong in life because it will catch you every time. Interviewer: Had that happened on an earlier occasion where you met somebody that hadn’t expected to meet? A couple of times, I saw—we built a bridge over the Roer river and I can’t remember which one, and here’s a guy I’d known in high school directing traffic, he was an MP. 43:25 That was kind of interesting. Interviewer: what else do you remember about Japan? What was it like to be an American soldier in Japan at that time? Well we were in Shatoshi and Kyoko, which was north, and we had a real interesting time. When I took over Baker Company it had the highest VD rate in the whole division and the colonel said, “Baxter, get that down”, and I said, “yes sir”, so I cut off a—it turned out the captain I was relieving was going into town every night and sleeping with these gals, so when I signed for the equipment it was my Jeep then and I told the Jeep driver, “this Jeep cannot leave this camp ground without me in it, under no circumstances. If you want to remain a Jeep driver and a corporal, just remember that”. 44:23 “Yes sir”, he said, so that night the captain wanted to leave and go into town and he said, “I can’t do it sir, I can’t, Captain Baxter said I can’t”, and he came storming and said, “I want it”, and I said, “you can’t use my Jeep, I’m sorry, not for that kind of purpose”, and he got into town, but with anything that I supplied. Interviewer: Did you manage to get the VD rate down? 22 �Oh yes, I cut off all passes and leaves and we stayed right there and set-up the entertainment in the day room and I would bring girls in and they could dance with men right in the room, and guys were stationed at the doors, so nobody could go out. The girls all stayed in the room and then we sent them back in a bus, back to the town. Interviewer: Did you have much contact or communication with the people in the town or were you working with anybody there? No, somebody else did that for me, and I had no contact with them at all. 45:20 These were very nice young ladies for the most part. They were thoughtful and kind and good and they loved being with the Americans. We had Coke and ginger ale and no beer or liquor. We just really did well with them. Interviewer: What was Korea like when you were there? That was an interesting time. I had the occasion, one time, to go from Pusan up to Seoul on a train and I had a—it was an overnight trip, and I had this bunk assigned to me and I got in there and everybody said to be careful because those guys will come in and rob you, they’ll get in the train and come along. I had my billfold, so I took my billfold, and here I was down in my underwear, so I stuck the billfold in the elastic band because I wanted to sleep. I was wakened about 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning and my billfold’s gone. All my money, all my identification and everything, so I thought, “oh well”, because these bunks are short and for the most part the Koreans were shorter than we. 46:38 I was kind of not sleeping well anyway, so I said, “I might as well get up”, so I got up—our Pullmans use to snap together etc., but these were just loose hanging, so I open it up and here’s my billfold on the floor in the middle of the aisle. It came out while I was sleeping and I don’t know how long it had been there, but nobody took it, so it was 23 �intact. That was just pure luck, and in all the stations there were youngsters there who were begging. They were isolated from their families and lost their families, either killed or didn’t know where they were. They were just pan handling and wanted money or food, and I showed up there with a couple of sandwiches, ham sandwiches, with bread about that thick and a whole bunch of meat in there and I passed those out. I went up there without eating because those kids were desperate. 47:31 They were just purely begging and begging and ranged in age from four or five up to sixteen or seventeen. Brothers and sisters, and they would take the younger ones as much as possible if they knew them, and other than that, they were all on their own—tough. Interviewer: Did you see much of the adults? Very little, had very little to do with the Koreans. Interviewer: What did the countryside look like? It hadn’t been devastated badly. The 1st Cavalry was station up at the Touran Reservoir and the North Koreans and the Chinese ran them out. They came all the way back down to Pusan and they evacuated over and that’s when they went up to Kyoto and they were a beat outfit when I joined them. They were just in the process of getting rehabilitated. 48:33 Interviewer: The worst part of the war was over by the time you got over to Korea wasn’t it? Yes, it was pretty stationary when I was there, but we lost a couple guys though on a water pipe. When I went up on that train from Pusan up to Seoul, every other car was a flat car with a quad fifty mounted, so they could—because they got up in the hills on either side of the railroad and they would sometimes shoot at you and they would respond 24 �with those. That didn’t happen when I was on board, they didn’t have to, but they were equipped to do it. They had about three of those quad fifties, three of those cars. Have you ever seen a quad fifty fire? That’s a roar I’ll tell you, that’s a big blast of sound when you here one of those things go off, yeah. Interviewer: Is there anything else that comes to mind about your experience in Japan or Korea? 49:25 No, not so much, we did what had to be done. We built the POW camps, and they loaned me all kinds of bulldozers and graders and pans. Interviewer: Were you there long enough to see POW’s come in or were you gone by the time they got there? I had one interesting experience. We used the POW’s to build the camps, you know, there were 10,000 POW’s, men and women, because they had women in their army right with the guys. This one camp—there was only one POW camp that we completed all the way—we were going to transfer them from the temporary rolls of concertina wire etc., into this camp that we built and the rumor was that they weren’t going to move. There were 10,000 of them and maybe only500 or 600 GI’s around there, so they could have swamped us if they wanted to. 50:26 They might lose a few guys, but they were apparently willing to do that. Gee, I got to thinking, “ How am I going to get these guys to transfer the next day?” There was a tank outfit down the road and I went down there and asked them if they had any flame throwing tanks there and they said they had a couple of them, maybe three or four. I said, “I would like to borrow them for tonight and tomorrow”, and he said, “ok”, so I explained what I wanted done. We put one on each side of the existing camp and at night after it was dark, we had them shoot out some 25 �flames, so they could see what they were. The next day the tanks went clank, clank, clank, clank behind the guys when they walked to the new one and we didn’t have a bit of trouble moving them. Interviewer: What condition were the prisoners in and what do you remember about what they looked like or how they acted? You were there and did the work on the building so-They worked and they did a good job of wiring. We had to check it, but they wired all the connections. We put the wire twelve inches on center each way. We had to wire them together, each one of those sections, so the guys had to watch them closely, but they were pretty good. 51:40 Interviewer: In general, how did they behave and conduct themselves? Other than the one time when I heard the rumor that they weren’t going to move, they were pretty docile. In fact, the Red Cross provided stuff for them, sanitary napkins and Kotex and that kind of stuff, and the guys didn’t know, the women that were there didn’t know what to do with it and that’s when they would take it apart and make table cloths out of it. Interviewer: Then what did you do then, coming out of Korea? I came back home. No, I went back to Japan and that’s when I was assessing the load carrying capacity of all the bridges, because they were worried about a Russian invasion. That’s why I left before the troops did. 52:29 I came back to the United States. Interviewer: Let’s take you back to after VE Day in Europe and you were about— was there any rumor about you going over to Japan or over to the Pacific, building bridges or helping? 26 �Oh sure, we didn’t have enough points, you do that on a point system and we didn’t have enough points, really, to qualify for instant removal, we had enough points so we didn’t have to go there right away, over to the far east, but we had enough so they could have separated some of us and send some of us. All of a sudden VJ Day happened too. Interviewer: What was that like? A big relief. I think the dropping of the atomic bomb was a terrible thing to do, but I think we saved hundreds of thousands of lives rather than attacking Japan, no doubt, because the Japanese were prepared, everybody was prepared to fight, and every household would have been a fort. 53:41 I t would have been a tough battle, I thing, a tough battle. Interviewer: Also, I was curious—did you have any bridge failures while you were over there? Did you built a numerous amount of bridges, was there any bridge failures or—you were the guy to go and talk to obviously, if there was going to be a weight problem, but were their any failures that you knew of after you went to the next river or anything like that? Well, because what we did was we just built assault bridges and then they had another company come in from the rear echelon and build a heavier bridge for the bigger stuff. 54:23 The most we ever built for was the M2 Treadway Bridge and it was good for a medium tank Interviewer: The correspondence with your wife, were you married when you went to Europe, so you were married? What was the correspondence with you wife, did you get letters and write letters often? I mean, you were right up at the front or near the front and taking fire. 27 �I tried to write to her about once a week and she would write to me about the same. Did I tell you about the valentine? We had a child that was born while I was away, I didn’t see it until I got back here and he was sixteen months old when I saw him for the first time, but he—my wife, it was valentines day coming up and she took the bottom of his feet and put lipstick on them and printed them on the card and sent it over for Valentines Day. 55:26 I was sitting in my Jeep and I leaned forward, it was a blackout, and I was leaning forward using the small lights on the dash trying to see what it was and a mortar shell or an artillery shell, I don’t know which one, landed over there and a piece of shrapnel went into the seat in back of me, so by leaning forward I missed it. If I had been leaning back I would have had it in me. It was pretty well spent because it didn’t do big damage to the seat, but it would have damaged me, I’m sure. It’s where you were, you could be standing next to somebody and he will get killed and there you are in tact. Interviewer: Overall, how do you think the wartime experience affected you? Do you have things that you carry with you now that affect you? 56:11 I think my language was terrible when I got back. Lots of swear words and you—just because I was young when I first went in and you pick-up the language everybody else uses. It took a couple of years until I got back to—my wife was so sick of it and now we’ve been married sixty-three years with sixty-four coming up this fall. Interviewer: When you first went in, was it a major culture shock? Most guys go through an experience of the first time being yelled at, first time getting up at five o’clock? If you lived on a farm I guess it was a little different. I’ve talked to people who lived on a farm and five AM is no big deal, but was there a culture shock there at all? 57:05 28 �I never noticed, no, I just did what had to be done. I think the majority of us did that. You say culture shock—I think the ones that were most affected were some of the boys that were more babied by their parents and they’re the ones that had the real—I was at a boys camp and had been a camp counselor, so I was more accustom to the rough and ready stuff. 57:35 I think that made a—but in the majority, I don’t recall any serious problems like that. Interviewer: Thank you, thank you very much. 29 �30 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Baxter, Harry (Interview transcript and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Baxter, Harry Description An account of the resource Harry "Bud" Baxter graduated high school near the beginning of WW II. He went to college at the University of Michigan for a year, but feeling that he would soon be drafted, he enlisted in the Army. During WW II he traveled with other men where they built bridges and repaired roads so that the United States Army could move around through the area. Harry continued to remain in the reserves when his time was up and eventually served for a short time in the Korean War. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Veterans Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-06-28 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BaxterH Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7b044739e05de53909eb3df1497413f4.pdf aac4a8b7ca80996cca53ea5cf761699d PDF Text Text U7l!]J Df f due.afJOn 1bw-~w /llljustJL-JJ H8] IN CONJUNCTION \'JITI-1 TI-IE UNilY OF EDUCATION CONFERENCE $3400 PRIZE t'bNEY ALL COITTESTAfffS MUST BE IN GRAND ENTRY. GRAND ENTRY LOCATION: }¼y MILLS INDIAN Co~UNITY 25 MILES WEST OF SAULT STE, ~¼RIE., MICHIGAN INDIAN SEQJRilY 2 P,M, SATURDAY 7 P,M, SATURDAY 2 P,M, SuNDAY HOST DRUVl: wI KI DRl1'1 UlvMilTEE "nr-a• .,....,,,...., 1p,a Ut'tN lJKUl'I DRUM CONTEST TRADERS WELCOME INDIAN CRAFTS ONLY! TRADERS FEE: $10.00/DAY · ····----- --~- .. .. . , � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Native American Publication Collection Subject The topic of the resource Native Americans Indians of North America Anthropology Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals Michigan Description An account of the resource Selected digital surrogates of published and unpublished materials from the Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection dealing with different aspects of human culture and anthropology, with an emphasis on Native American people, events, organizations, and activities in Michigan. Includes newsletters, event programs, flyers, posters and other printed materials. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gillis, Edward V. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American Publication Collection (RHC-14)</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-02-21 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Gi-gikinomaage-min Project (Kutsche Office of Local History) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-14 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1958-2000 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection, RHC-14</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-14_unity-of-education-pow-wow_ Title A name given to the resource Unity of Education Pow-Wow, August ???? Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource ????-08 Description An account of the resource Unity of Education Pow-Wow flyer, Sault Ste. Marie MI, August 26-27, ????, collected by Edward Gillis included as part of his Native American publication collection. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bay Mills Indian Community Subject The topic of the resource Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals Indians of North America Michigan Michigan -- Grand Rapids Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6a3fafed4d7d0f193ed47a130628cf93.mp4 0bf630d2184762cf8001600391ef19f1 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/64ccc4b82ba54838eb9da34c5f1383d0.pdf f9c7aa2ce1e566c8b0b775b263bee010 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project World War II Era Donald Beachum Interview Length: (00:25:37:00) Early Life (00:00:26:00)     Beachum was born August 23rd, 1927. (00:01:21:00) Beachum grew up in Benton Harbor, Michigan. (00:00:39:00) Beachum’s father was a schoolteacher and worked for 35 years. (00:00:43:00) In 1942, Beachum moved to Lowell, Michigan where he began his sophomore year of high school. (00:00:45:00)  Beachum’s mother worked at a bank. (00:01:06:00)  Beachum had an older brother who was in the service and a sister that was a nurse in the service. (00:01:32:00)  Beachum was very involved in his high school. (00:01:50:00) o He was very athletic. Played football, baseball, basketball, and ran track (00:01:53:00) o He was vice president of his graduating class. (00:02:06:00) o He had “a lot of good friends”. (00:02:12:00)  Beachum attended to Michigan State University after he got out of the service where he studied to pursue a career in teaching and coaching. (00:03:42:00) o Beachum’s college roommate was a prisoner of war for 4 years. (00:03:56:00)  After he graduated high school in 1945, Beachum went to work for a furniture store that he eventually owned. (00:04:10:00) Military Experience (00:04:18:00)  Beachum joined the Navy to avoid going into the Army. (00:04:24:00) o He joined with 4 of his close friends. (00:04:30:00)  Beachum went to New York for boot camp. (00:04:42:00) o Normally, Michigan service men would go to train at Great Lakes in North Chicago, Illinois for naval training, but men were sent to New York instead due to the breakout of Scarlet Fever. (00:04:47:00)  Many of the young men did not handle the Navy well, and were “upset” during their service time. (00:05:20:00) o “It was a trying experience”. (00:05:30:00)  “Boot camp was a training period where they were really rough on you”. (00:05:44:00) o “Gets you used to taking orders and whatnot”. (00:05:54:00) o The men had physical training, such as running, obstacle courses, and test of how long one could stay awake at night. (00:06:19:00) o They also had weaponry training, such as gun shooting practice. (00:06:24:00) o However, the largest part of the training was physical conditioning. (00:06:31:00)  “The food was pretty decent” at boot camp. (00:07:48:00) o Although Beachum did not care for the chicken, which was cooked in large kettles that sometimes still contained inedible parts of the bird such as the head and feathers. (00:08:01:00)  Beachum was stationed in Long Island, New York, at a hotel. (00:08:35:00) �o He remained there for roughly 14 months (00:08:55:00) o While there, he did secretarial work and frequently dealt salary disbursement. (00:09:10:00)  Beachum never saw any active combat, however nearly all of his friends that he joined with did. (00:09:30:00) o He and his group of friends later owned a small cottage in Northern Michigan where they would go for ice fishing retreats. (00:09:52:00)  “Very seldom do [my friends] talk about their experiences” (00:10:10:00) o When Beachum asked one of his war- friends about his experience, he said, “he was there 36 months and was shot at everyday”. (00:10:18:00)  While in New York, Beachum would call his family and friends at home because he was “never much of a writer”. (00:11:34:00)  Beachum never experienced any supply shortages while in New York because “the war was over while I was in boot camp”. (00:12:11:00)  Beachum had a cousin who was married to an Air Force Colonel. It was discovered on the day of his funeral that he was “a back- up pilot for dropping the [atomic] bomb” on Hiroshima, Japan in 1945. (00:12:19:00)  The men stationed in New York had a plethora of entertainment outlets. (00:09:30:00) o Beachum and the others were able to “go to 99 Park Avenue and get free tickets to all the shows”. (00:12:50:00) o “You could make a liberty in New York City with 50 cents”. (00:12:57:00) o The men were also able to play basketball, softball, go to the boardwalk that extended down Long Island, and go to the beach. (00:13:38:00) Post- War Experience (00:15:00:00)  Because Beachum had so many close friends that were killed in WWII combat, he tends to “get a little upset when I see these guys driving these Japanese cars”. (00:14:45:00) o Beachum says that he saw a man with a sergeant’s uniform on recently and thought to himself “by God, he couldn’t have been in service against the Japanese driving one of their cars”. (00:15:05:00)  When Beachum attended Michigan State University, it was right after WWII, so much of the student body consisted of young men who had just been relieved of service. (00:16:42:00) o The Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944, commonly known as the G.I bill, helped many retired militants pursue higher education. (00:16:56:00) o Beachum notes that those who went to college at this time were going for something serious- “it wasn’t playtime”. (00:17:02:00)  Beachum got married in 1947, while still in college. (00:16:42:00) o Together he and his wife had 4 children, all of which followed in their father’s “sporty” footsteps and were heavily involved in athletics. (00:17:57:00)  After the war, Beachum became a board member at the Congregational Church in his community. (00:19:15:00)  “Thank God I didn’t have to have more war experiences”. (00:23:29:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Beachum, Donald (Interview outline and video), 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Beachum, Donald Description An account of the resource Donald Beachum served in the United States Navy during the World War II era. Growing up in Michigan, he graduated from high school in 1945 and joined the Navy right away to avoid being drafted into the Army. Because of a scarlet fever outbreak at Great Lakes Naval Base in Illinois, he was sent to New York for basic training, and remained on Long Island doing clerical work for fourteen months before he was discharged. He did not go overseas or see combat, and was perfectly happy not to be shot at. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fleet, Alexander (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006-05-31 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BeachumD1262V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/698fe24b725688a16847343815a96263.mp4 abfc3f08739edaf798cf761591e31929 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/886aa2b623ea2f5a2c6a624433894a04.pdf b2f8e27cc549f5c7c9e559bfb8de7550 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project Norman Beachum World War II 1 hour 34 minutes 36 seconds (00:00:15) Early Life -Born on March 7, 1927 in Union City, Tennessee -Lived in Reelfoot Lake, Tennessee until he was 11 years old -Father worked as a guide at Reelfoot Lake -Had employment during the Great Depression, but it was limited -Moved to Evansville, Indiana -Lived there for three months -Moved to Missouri -Moved to Alton, Illinois -Lived there for six months -Returned to Missouri -Did farm work in Missouri -Father worked as the caretaker of a wealthy man in Evansville -Father did railroad work in Illinois -He was an only child -Had one sister, but she died as a baby -In 1942 the family moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan -Briefly attended Union High School -Moved to Muskegon, Michigan when he was 15 or 16 years old (00:04:10) Enlisting in the Navy -Enlisted in the Navy on March 7, 1944 when he turned 17 years old -Youngest that he was allowed to enlist -Father got drafted when he was 37 years old -Enlisted a few days before his father had to report for duty -Father spent the rest of the war working on bases around the United States -Not healthy enough for overseas duty -Sworn in on March 14, 1944 with 500 other recruits in Detroit (00:06:36) Basic Training -Shortly after being sworn in he and the other recruits were assembled in the street -Marched to the train station -Remembers an old couple running a newspaper stand at the train station -Pulled Norman aside and gave him a lot of magazines, comics, and candy bars -All of the cattle cars with bunks were full -He walked down to the Pullman cars and found an empty berth -Got to ride all the way to Spokane, Washington with his own room -Took three days to go from Detroit to Spokane, Washington by way of the Great Northern Route -Took two train engines to get them across the Rocky Mountains -Went from Spokane, Washington back to Farragut Naval Training Station, Idaho -Felt basic training would be an adventure -Lasted 14 weeks -Consisted of marching and following orders -Had a chief petty officer as his training company's commander �-Didn't have any trouble with adjusting to the discipline -Remembers a boxing competition being held -The intended boxer had to drop out, so he was selected to compete -A former professional wrestler in his training company gave him some pointers -After the boxing competition they went to the rifle range -There were 144 men in the training company and only a handful of the Blue Jacket Manuals -The men that shot the best would get their own Blue Jacket Manual -Thumbs were so swollen that someone else had to load his rifle for him -Even with swollen thumbs he shot well enough to win a Blue Jacket Manual -Won the boxing match -Had a lot of trouble with marching -On graduation day his officers had him sit out during the parade because he couldn't keep step -Didn't get into any trouble due to his inability to march (00:14:15) Assignment to USS Cumberland Sound (AV-17) Pt. 1 -Sent to the Navy base in Bremerton, Washington -Missed seeing the famous actress Henry Fonda by only a day -From Bremerton went to Tacoma, Washington -The ship he was scheduled to board was almost ready -Ship was commissioned on August 21, 1944 -He joined the USS Cumberland Sound (AV-17) - “AV” meant “aviation vessel” -Seaplane tender for seaplane pilots -Meant that the seaplane pilots would go out on missions then return to ship at night -His job was to stand watches, do work details, and chip paint because of the salt water -There was a complement of 1,077 men -Had boats to bring the seaplane crews from the ship out to their aircraft -Shakedown cruise was along the West Coast -Sailed down to San Diego where welders came aboard to do minor repairs (00:20:15) Voyage to Hawaii Pt. 1 -Will never forget when the ship departed from San Francisco bound for Hawaii -Believed that he would be one of the casualties of the Pacific Theater -Loved being in the open ocean -Remembers 20 foot swells -When the ship dropped it felt like being weightless -When the ship rose again it felt like you weighed three times your normal weight -When they pulled out of San Francisco he was standing in the chow line -As soon as he got his food he threw up -Only time he got seasick during his time in the Navy (00:23:50) Assignment to USS Cumberland Sound (AV-17) Pt. 2 -Stopped in Long Beach, California -Had liberty in San Diego -Unimpressed by the city -Found it to be dirty and dusty (00:25:46) Voyage to Hawaii Pt. 2 -Sailed from San Francisco to Pearl Harbor -Note: Set sail on October 28, 1944 -Great voyage from San Francisco to Pearl Harbor -The 1st Class Petty Officer he served under was a great man -Career sailor with 20 or 30 years in the Navy �-When they got to Pearl Harbor he gave 50 cents to Norman so he could go ashore on leave (00:27:30) Antiaircraft Ground School -Once the ship arrived at Pearl Harbor Norman was sent to an Antiaircraft Ground School on Oahu -Will never forget driving through the pineapple fields on his way to the base -Enjoyed the school -Woke up to music every morning -Informal -Received a lot of gunnery training -Worked with 20mm antiaircraft guns -Trained with .50 caliber machine guns -Worked on a 40mm gun on the Cumberland Sound before being transferred to the 20mm gun -Shot at tow targets -Tow targets were large, cloth targets towed by aircraft so gunnery crews could train -Every third round was a tracer -Enjoyed that part of training (00:30:10) Visiting Hilo, Hawaii -Went to Hilo, Hawaii for a day of liberty -Virtually nothing to do there except go into the bar and get a drink -Technically, he wasn't old enough to drink, but the Navy didn't mind -Believed that if he was old enough to serve he was old enough to drink -Provided that he didn't get drunk (00:32:25) Stationed at Ulithi Pt. 1 -Anchored in front of the wreck of the USS Arizona before they were underway -Not working with seaplanes on missions at the time -Liberation of the Philippines had begun -Sailed from Pearl Harbor to Eniwetok on December 1 -Note: Stayed at Eniwetok from December 13, 1944 to January 1, 1945 -From Eniwetok sailed to Kwajalein, then to Saipan, then to Guam -Arrived at Ulithi on January 12, 1945 -Could see other islands on the horizon that were 14 miles away -Fleet gathered at Ulithi three times while they anchored there -Could see nothing but ships as far as the eye could see -Anchored off the islet of Mogmog -Three or four acres by a half acre in size -Remembers the fleet building up for the continued liberation of the Philippines -Supposed to be part of it, but his ship's involvement was canceled at the last minute -Briefed on what to expect going into the Philippines -Afraid thinking about going into combat, but disappointed when it didn't happen -Wanted to be part of the force going to help liberate the Philippines -Stayed at Ulithi after the fleet departed for the Philippines -Tendered 36 seaplanes (00:39:47) Downtime at Sea -There was nowhere really to go on Ulithi -Remembers going with a group of men to gather seashells around Mogmog -A shark swam over to the group of men -While the rest of the men ran, he charged at the shark and drove it away -Remembers at Kwajalein a sailor bouncing unexploded shells off of other unexploded shells -Still has no idea what possessed that sailor to do that -One friend wanted to swim from Kwajalein back to the ship �-Mile and a half of swimming -Followed through with the idea and made it back to the ship unharmed -Wasn't much to do to pass the time -Didn't have much free time anyway -Remembers being so tired from sleep deprivation that he almost passed out (00:44:15) Work on the USS Cumberland Sound -Feels that workers like the welders had to do the most work on the ship -Noticed that officers and other men in charge rarely, if ever, got their hands dirty with work (00:45:17) Progress of War in the Pacific -Supposed to take part in the invasion of Iwo Jima, but those orders were canceled -Supposed to take part in the invasion of Okinawa, but those orders were also canceled -By the summer of 1945 the Japanese air force had been virtually wiped out -Had an aircraft carrier anchored next to them while at Eniwetok -Note: USS Cumberland Sound returned to Eniwetok on June 24 -One night, at twilight, a kamikaze hit the carrier -Saw flames leaping into the sky and ordinance exploding from the heat -A second kamikaze hit the airstrip at Parry Island to no effect (00:47:53) End of the War -Sailed up to Okinawa near the end of the war -Note: Ship pulled into Okinawa on August 18, 1945 three days after Japan's surrender -Remembers men discussing the atomic bombs -Sitting topside with a group of men when they received word of Japan's surrender -The other men believed that the end of WWII meant the end of all future conflicts -Norman was unconvinced and believed the U.S. and USSR would be at odds (00:50:38) Occupation Duty in Japan -Sailed up to Japan and arrived at Tokyo Bay on August 28, 1945 -A small Japanese boat guided them into Tokyo Bay along with American minesweepers -Had to make sure Tokyo Bay was clear of mines before the rest of the fleet arrived -Pulled guard duty at night -Feared Japanese extremists would try to attack the ship -The Japanese civilians in Yokosuka and Yokohama were happy that the war was over -Sick of the war and the bombing raids -Went ashore and engaged in some debauchery -Saw a Japanese Imperial Marine still in his uniform -Glared at Norman and his friends -Glad he was with level headed, mature men that decided to avoid confrontation -Remembers a sailor from his ship kicked over a glassware stand just to do it (00:56:43) Assignment to USS Gardiners Bay (AVP-39) Pt. 1 -Transferred to the USS Gardiners Bay (AVP-39) -AVP is a U.S. naval hull code for “patrol seaplane tender” or “small seaplane tender” -Sailed to Nagoya, Japan -Not allowed to go into the city -One, small bar the men were allowed to go to -Went to Hong Kong -Stayed there quite a while -Sailed to Shanghai on January 29, 1946 -Sailed through a typhoon near Formosa (Taiwan) -Had to patrol the ship during the storm -Almost capsized �-Small ship of only 83 men -Note: Ship's company was 215 men, but still much smaller than the Cumberland Sound (01:01:05) Stationed at Ulithi Pt. 2 -In Ulithi the fleet was building up for the continued invasion of the Philippines -He was standing on the deck of the Cumberland Sound -Remembers watching as a Polynesian crew rowed its simple canoe out to a burial ground -Forbidden for U.S. servicemen to go to the burial ground -Struck by the contrast of seeing the primitive boat and the massive, industrialized armada -Wishes he could have captured the moment on film -Image that will never leave his mind because it was so poignant (01:04:30) Assignment to USS Gardiners Bay (AVP-39) Pt. 2 -Went ashore in Hong Kong on the Chinese New Year -It was still a British colony at the time -Wishes that he tried authentic Chinese food instead of British food -Sent up to Shanghai -Sailed through the aforementioned typhoon, but there was no damage done to the ship -Saw the Whangpoo (Huangpu) River -Had to go from his ship to the USS Pine Island to go ashore -Visited the Army-Navy Club -Remembers he and two other men ordering a case of beer and steak & eggs -He only had two beers and the other men drank the rest (01:07:43) Coming Home & End of Service -Returned to Hong Kong and boarded a troopship bound for the United States -Set sail for the U.S. in April 1946 -Stopped at Okinawa and Pearl Harbor on their way back to the United States -Took a couple months to get back to America -Ship was carrying Chinese immigrants moving to the United States -Landed at Treasure Island in San Francisco -Given three days of leave -Returned to Treasure Island and boarded a train bound for Great Lakes Naval Station, Illinois -Volunteered for mess duty on the train ride -Got his own bunk in a Pullman car and got to shower daily because he handled food -Remembers seeing wheat growing in Kansas and it was the best sight he'd seen in a while -Discharged on May 23, 1946 (01:11:28) Life after the War Pt. 1 -Went on a date with a girl in June 1946 -On July 25, 1946 they got married -Had nine children -Lost one baby girl -Jobs were available after the war, but as production caught up with demand, the jobs dwindled -Got a job at a foundry as a maintenance man -Worked all week -Worked there for 27 years before he retired -Dusty, dirty, noisy, and hot work -Feels fortunate that none of his five sons had to serve in the Vietnam War (01:15:48) Reflections on Service Pt. 1 -Enjoyed the Navy and considered reenlisting -In a way, the Navy provided him with the money necessary to buy his first home -Played a craps game in Tokyo Bay and won $1700 �-Wired it home and saved it -Used $1000 for his wedding and honeymoon -Used the remaining $700 on a down payment for his first home (01:21:20) Life after the War Pt. 2 -Sold his first house and bought two acres of land and built a house -Moved into the house when it was unfinished, something he'd never do again (01:22:42) Reflections on Service Pt. 2 -Navy provided him with opportunities he would not have had otherwise -For example, made it through the 8th grade as a civilian -After the war took a test at Muskegon Community College -Considered to have the equivalence of a high school education -Could have gone to engineering school on the GI Bill, but needed to work (01:25:00) Life after the War Pt. 3 -Did plumbing work for a while -Went on to work as an electrician until the company went out of business -Worked in a machine shop in Grand Haven, Michigan -Had to look for another job because it didn't provide health insurance -His work experience allowed him to get the job as a multipurpose maintenance man at the foundry (01:28:40) Spirit of Grand Rapids/Talons Out Honor Flight -Went on the May 16, 2015 Spirit of Grand Rapids/Talons Out Honor Flight to Washington DC -Chance to honor and thank veterans for their service -Specifically veterans of WWII and the Korean War -His youngest son went with him, so he got to spend the entire day with his son -Saw the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier -Had a close friend killed during the liberation of the Philippines -Stood up out of his wheelchair to honor his friend and all the other men that died -Ran into his granddaughter (who lives in Washington DC) -Impressed by the Iwo Jima Memorial and the Korean War Memorial -First time he ever saw the World War Two Memorial or the Air Force Memorial -Flew back to Grand Rapids, Michigan -He and the other veterans were brought to East Kentwood High School -Greeted by thousands of citizens thanking them for their service -Saw a little girl holding a sign that said “FREEDOM” -Really drove home why the Honor Flight was done and what the war was about � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BeachumN1918V Title A name given to the resource Beachum, Norman L (Interview outline and video), 2011 Description An account of the resource Norman Beachum was born in Union City, Tennessee on March 7, 1927. After moving around the country his family settled in Muskegon, Michigan and on his 17th birthday he enlisted in the Navy (March 7, 1944). He took basic training at Farragut Naval Training Station, Idaho and after 14 weeks went to Tacoma, Washington where he joined the USS Cumberland Sound (AV-17), a seaplane tender. They went to sea on October 28, 1944 and sailed to Pearl Harbor where he received antiaircraft training. The ship sailed to Eniwetok, then Kwajalein, then Saipan, then Guam before reaching Ulithi on January 12, 1945. He was stationed at Ulithi until the ship returned to Eniwetok on June 24, 1945. After the war he was aboard the Cumberland Sound during occupation duty in Japan then joined the USS Gardiners Bay (AVP-39), a small seaplane tender. He sailed around Japan and China for the remainder of 1945 and into 1946. In early spring 1946 he boarded a troopship in Hong Kong and returned to the United States. He was discharged from the Navy at Great Lakes Naval Station, Illinois on May 23, 1946. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Beachum, Norman L. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-02-08 Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3e0924ee6a2bd35c43816f3ea2a4f7bf.jpg 0e695c96132ce698d5ae5c0721474b16 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. PS1307.A1 1892 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0331 Title A name given to the resource The American Claimant Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Beard, Dan (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of The American Claimant, by Mark Twain, published by Charles L. Webster & Company, 1892. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1892 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives