762 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2d78d6d94563d28930982ca61f3eaa0c.mp4 22491f9ba048278e2d8dd9643a079a11 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/55a40c932540d996abf4dcbe3c8193e1.pdf 82042907c93efdb20d9d73755a0aa8dc PDF Text Text Living With PFAS Interviewee: Rick Rediske Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: 5/25/2021 DD: I’m Dani DeVasto and today, May 25th 2021, I have the Pleasure of chatting with Dr. Rick Rediske. Thank you so much, Rick, for being here today. RR: Good morning. DD: Good morning. Can you tell me about where you are from and where you currently live? RR: Well, I'm originally from the Milwaukee Wisconsin area and moved to Ohio and then moved to Ann Arbor area to finish my doctorate there and then move to West Michigan. So [chuckling] kind of did a little bit of a circle there. DD: And how long have you been in West Michigan, roughly? RR: I've been in West Michigan since 1980 ― so. DD: Okay, all right. Can you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS [Per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances] or with PFAS in your community? I know you likely have many. RR: Yeah, I guess the one to talk about mostly is House Streets in the Rockford area. So I was asked by a group of concerned citizens that were watching the demolition ― they watch the demolition of the Tannery and they took all sorts of pictures and were concerned that contaminants were still present. The contaminants were taken off the site, and they wanted an expert to help them tie the discussion together and get the EPA [Environmental Protection Agency] involved. So I originally turned them down because there was ― a lot of stigma about what they were doing, because Wolverine was a exemplary corporate citizen. They paid for you know ― a real nice boat launch, they paid for river improvements, the Rogue River. They were certainly active in the City of Rockford. And I had friends that have businesses in Rockford etc. And they said you know, steer away from these people, they [chuckle] don't know what they're doing. And ― and like I said I told them no, and then they came back a year later and actually came to visit me in my office and brought me a whole bunch of pictures. Lynn McIntosh who is the ― I guess the leader of the CCRR [Concerned Citizens for Responsible Remediation of Rockford ] ― she is a former art music teacher and she likes to draw things and ― anyway after seeing what she put together and some of the records, I became convinced that there was an issue at the Tannery. We weren't looking at PFAS back then but as I went through all of the data and looked up what was done at the Tannery, where they have the Scotchgard and made Hush Puppies, yeah I became more and more concerned about PFAS [computer notification] being at the Tannery and then wherever they disposed of their waste. DD: And what ― roughly when was all of this happening? What time? 1 �RR: Well this was a ― I think about 2012, 2013 in that time frame. DD: And were you aware of PFAS at this time? Cause I know many people were not. RR: Yeah, I've always ― I have taught classes in environmental chemistry and toxicology, and I always mention PFAS as being one of those materials that was a miracle. Scotchgard when that came out, I mean it’s changed the carpet forever and the Gore-Tex clothing. So I had you know both of those in my household. And I tell all the students that we thought everything was safe and then we found out that it wasn't. And 3M got out of producing it. So I do include that story in you know my lectures every year. DD: So once you were convinced that there was an issue, then what? What came next? RR: Well then it was my job to put the information together that would help get the DEQ's [Department of Environmental Quality] attention at the time. They were very much supportive of what the ― DEQ was very supportive [computer notification] of what Wolverine was doing. So they were trying to redevelop the property for commercial and residential. And the DEQ, didn't you know, didn't necessarily approve of the plan but they certainly weren't finding any fault with you know what they were up to. So there was concern about the chemicals that were left behind. And what got me interested in PFAS was that there was a fish study in the Rogue River right outside of the Tannery, and the Smallmouth bass and White sucker were at levels that would triggered the Fish Consumption Advisories, so I knew there had to be PFAS coming from the Tannery getting[chuckles] into the water, I mean you wouldn't have a Fish Advisory there if that wasn't the case. And then probably about a year later in 2000 yeah 2017 ― well 2016, Lynn McIntosh and Janice Tompkins, two of the CCRR members did some personal interviews. They found the waste hauler that actually was willing to give an interview saying that he took waste from the Tannery and dumped them on House Street and dump them in a few other places. So once we found out about House Street, we were really concerned because that had residential breaking wells around it, water wells. So yeah it's kind of the history. I was kind of reluctant person and then I got really involved and ― I helped bring the issue to the forefront with the interviews for the newspaper and things like that. DD: And are you still involved now? RR: Yes, I'm involved with the Community Advisory Group or the CAG. And we don't have a super fun status, the site is not a super fun site. But given all of the interest, the EPA is allowing for the formation of a Citizen Advisory Group or Community Advisory Group. Excuse me. Which is ― we don't have a power to reject something, all we have the ― we got all the information so, all the information is given to the CAG members and then we can comment on whatever the EPA and whatever Wolverine is doing. So we have a ability to comment that a lot of citizen groups do not have, we have a direct channel that was formed because it’s a Community Advisory Group. DD: What concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward? 2 �RR:Well the biggest concern is cleaning up the contaminated groundwater. There's 25 square miles of contaminated groundwater that need to be addressed in one form or another. And then the other big issue is all the health studies that are going on. There's a number of blood and public health kind of related studies that are going on for people that have been exposed through contaminated drinking water. And I think they have already 1000 participants I think I heard that number. So it started out really slow, there was only a couple hundred, and again the Community Advisory Group got involved with helping to recruit. We had a couple committees and we got that number back up so it's going to be a pretty solid study. DD: Is the Community Advisory Group involved with the groundwater remediation at all, too? RR: Well we’re involved with everything Wolverine. So we’re involved with the Tannery clean up, and then we're involved with the Wolven Jewell and the House Street groundwater cleanups. So we’re ― there’s I think four different types of work plans that are coming out this year that we have to review. So we just completed reviewing the Tannery poultry system and now we're reviewing the groundwater and surface water interface, the GSI [Groundwater-Surface Water Interface] interface for House Street. DD: Sounds like you are going to be busy. RR: Yeah, they’re quite lengthy. And they’re technical documents and they have to be ― made more friendly to the general public. So you have to explain why they’re doing things and [clears throat] trying [chuckle] explain why they are not doing things which is a challenge. But yeah it's ― I think we’ve got almost 30 people, 27 or something like that and each one has a different perspective. So we have to all reach consensus on how we want to comment on these documents. DD: Sounds like a challenging process. RR: Yes. DD: Before we wrap up, is there anything you'd like to add that we haven't touched on today? Any part of your work with PFAS or is anything you'd like to go back to to say more about? RR: Well I think we're just scratching the surface in the Rockford area as far as trying to fix the damage to the Rogue River. I think that's our big challenge. And you know the ― I think the public health ― I mean they responded for the blood levels and getting safe drinking water. But we have a big challenge to be able to fish and enjoy the Rogue River again so that's out there. And then the other issue is there are so many PFAS compounds out there that were ― every day we find out something new. And you know if I would have done this interview a year ago I would have said 4 to 5000 compounds [unclear] it’s 8000 compounds. DD: Wow. RR: There is just a plethora of these materials that are out in the environment. And you know we’re ― we have to deal with them because they contaminate our drinking water and they're in our food. So it's really a long-term problem that we’re faced with. 3 �DD: Can you say any more about the fish that ― the dealing with the fish and the river? You mention that’s something that we're going to have to address. RR: Yeah. There are several places across the state. Most notably Wurtsmith Air Force Base, the Au Sable River, and then the Rogue River and the Clinton River, excuse me not Clinton but the [hand hits the table multiple times] ― Huron River its got a lot of contamination. There is a lot of areas in the state where this water has been discharged and the fish have accumulated the PFOS [Perfluorooctane sulfonic acid] [spells out letters] is the compound. It's one of the more toxic ones and it's one of the few that does bio accumulate like that. So there is warnings out at different places around the state for not being able to consume fish that contain PFAS. And it was just recently the smelt runs up in Lake Superior had contamination so it's not just limited to our locations. And it doesn't take very much. I mean we’re dealing with parts per trillion all the other contaminants were parts per million and parts per billion. So we're down in a much lower concentration level than we are from most other compounds. DD: Parts per trillion sounds like something that would be really tricky to deal with. Tests you know― test for, communicate about. ― RR: It is it is. And that’s my analogy of cutting a dollar bill which is a grand. You cut that into a thousand pieces then you cut one 1000th into a thousand pieces, and you cut one of those 1000th of a 1000th into a[chuckle] [computer notification] thousand pieces and that's a part per trillion. [chuckle] So you know it's a very small amount of material. But as I ― when I talked about it it's one of the few contaminates that circulates in our blood. So it catches a ride on our major carrier protein that carries are antibodies and carries our hormones. And it's just not something that we want you know in our bodies or in the environment. DD: Well, thank you so much Rick for taking the time to share some of your story today. RR: Sure, sure glad to do it. 4 �5 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rediske, Rick Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-05-25 Title A name given to the resource Rick Rediske, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Dr. Rick Rediski is a professor of Environmental Health Sciences at the Robert Annis Water Research Institute at Grand Valley State University and has lived in West Michigan since around 1980. In this interview, Dr. Rediski discusses is involvement in the PFAS contamination situation in Michigan. After learning of chemical dumping in residential water areas, Dr. Rediski helped to bring the issue to the forefront with interviews to news organizations. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/104f0dabb40ddc8f424d3db408775d0b.mp4 2cd197e01511b18a23961e87a34ee596 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/37d7fc9688d9f618b14b3e69bf61408c.pdf a690718e0528159e5425c6ce6e67693f PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW GERALD REDWINE Born: Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1933 Resides: Caledonia, Michigan Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, May 12, 2014 Interviewer: Mr. Redwine, can you begin with some background on yourself, where and when were you born? I was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on Henry Street S.E. in 1933. Interviewer: Did you grow up in Grand Rapids? I did, I attended Henry elementary school and then I went on to South High School. Interviewer: What did your family do for a living at that time? Well, I was raised by my grandparents and my grandfather, at the time, was working at McKay Tower downtown. He was a custodian. Interviewer: Do you remember when WWII was going on, you were a kid, you were in school, did you pay much attention at all, or did you just worry about your own stuff? No, we did a lot, we had the bond drive in our school and I was one of the leaders of the bond drive at the time in 1944, and we raised bonds. 1:05 I had about four uncles who were in the service and one cousin who was in the Marine Corps. Interviewer: The schools in Grand Rapids at that point were effectively integrated weren’t they? There were white kids and black kids, at least in high school? Interviewer: Yes they were and in grammar school also. I don‘t ever recall going to a segregated school, I mean, they might have been there, but I don‘t recall. 1 �Interviewer: They kind of self-segregated in the late sixties when white people moved into Christian schools and things like that, but to go back to the forties, there were not separate systems. No, there were not separate systems. I don‘t recall, but I had all white teachers though, I didn‘t have any black teachers. Interviewer: Alright, when did you graduate from high school? I graduated from high school in 1952. I was mid-term, I was between terms, and I came out in February of 1952. 2:04 Interviewer: Alright, and then what did you do at that point? I went on to what they called Junior College, and now it is Grand Rapids Community College, and I was there January through March, before I went into the Marine Corps. Interviewer: What motivated you to join the Marines? Really, I was going to school and five of--four of my buddies who were not going to school got their draft notice and I was a different qualification than they were, so they came down to school one day and they met me in the cafeteria and they said, ―Hey, we‘re going to go and join the service. We all got our draft notice and we all want to go in together, so how about coming with us? ‖ So, we all went in together and there were six of us going in together, and we went to the recruiting office to go into the Air Force, and the Air Force recruiter said he couldn‘t take all of us. 3:00 We didn‘t understand what he was saying, but eventually we found out he said he couldn‘t take six black people at that time, that‘s what he was really saying. He said, ―We can take two of you‖, and we said, ―No, we all want to go in together‖, and he said, ―I can‘t take all of you‖, so we said, ―Well, we‘ll go over and join the Navy‖, so we went over to the Navy recruiters and 2 �he said, ―I can‘t take all of you, but I can take two of you as stewards‖. We said, ―We don‘t want to be stewards‖, and he said, ―Well, that guy over there, he can probably take all of you‖, and he was a Marine. So, we went over and talked to him and he said, ―Yeah, I can take all of you‖, and we said, ―Okay, but we didn‘t want to go South Carolina, we wanted to go to California, to the naval marine base out there in San Diego‖, and he said that he could arrange that, so we all joined and we all went to San Diego. 4:00 Interviewer: What did you know about South Carolina at that point, what motivated you to say that? Because we knew there was a marine base there called Montford Point Marine Base, and that‘s where they trained black Marines, they didn‘t integrate, it was segregated and we didn‘t want to go there, and we knew that San Diego was not. Interviewer: You’re at a point where Truman has started to desegregate the military, back in 1947, at least that’s when the first executive order came out, but overall the armed forces are still in a kind of transition phase here in the early 50’s. The Korean Was put more pressure on there to get more guys in, so you’re in a situation where some of it’s segregated and some of it isn’t. The Navy only wanted you as stewards and that’s the way they did it in WWII, but they set it up to get you to San Diego instead. Right Interviewer: So, when did you get out to San Diego? You know, that was our first experience with segregation for most of us. 5:02 We caught a troop train from Detroit and went to San Diego, but we had a stopover in Kansas 3 �City, so we all got off the train because there was going to be a four hour stop, so we all got off the train and walked into town and went to a theater. By this time we‘d picked up two white guys from Grand Rapids, so we said, ―Let‘s go kill some time in the movie theater‖, so they went and got their tickets and one guy got his ticket and then one of us stepped up, I don‘t know which one it was, but the lady said, ―I can‘t sell you a ticket‖ and we asked, ―Why not?‖ She said, ―I just can‘t sell you a ticket‖, so then she called the manager and the manager, so the manager come out and told us, ―You can‘t go in that theater‖, so the two buddies from Grand Rapids, and our white friends, said, ―Well, we‘re not going either, so they got their money back and we all went straight back to the train an didn‘t get off the train for three hours, we just sat there. 6:00 We played cards and things until we got to San Diego and we got to San Diego, I think it was about the thirtieth of March. Interviewer: What sort of reception did you get when you arrived at the Marine base? It was typical, stand on this line, step on this pair of shoes they had, and just stand there while the drill sergeant went up and down the line just chewing us out, you know, maybe because you weren‘t looking straight, or so forth. Other than that, we were just all Marines, and actually, at boot camp everybody was treated the same. Interviewer: How easy, or hard was it for you to adjust to military life? It was easy for me, because I was in the boy scouts here in Grand Rapids, so I knew how to stand straight and tall and I knew how to say ―yes sir‖ and ―no sir‖. 7:00 The majority of us did and nobody really got in trouble for that and the drill instructors were really tough and they really put the fear of God in you, so no problem. 4 �Interviewer: Were they consistent? You knew what you had to do and if you did it they treated you one way? You followed the orders and did what they told you, and yes, it was. An incident I‘ll tell you about was, we went to a swimming class and five of us could and one of us couldn‘t. We knew the guy that couldn‘t swim, so after we qualified they put us over to the side and we were talking, me and a friend from Grand Rapids, he knew this guy couldn‘t swim and we saw him in the water. They pushed you in the water to see you swim, and when he came up he started laughing and that was the wrong thing to do. 8:01 It was up the tower, we had a tower there and he said, ―Get up the tower‖, so we went up the tower, Floyd, and I forget his name, so we jumped off, so he said, ―I didn‘t tell you to jump off, go back up the tower‖, and I think we went up that tower six times and when we came out we were beet red from hitting that water from twenty feet up in the air. It was a lesson that we learned quick. Interviewer: What sort of physical training did you get in boot camp? We had a lot of PT, physical training, that was most of it, and weapons training with other weapons, and at that time they called it Jiu Jitsu, you had to go through Judo, and bayonet training in boot camp, and we did that at San Diego. 9:00 Then we went up to a place they called Camp Mathews, that‘s no longer there, for three weeks of rifle training and other weapons. Interviewer: Was that still part of the basic training chunk, or was that now advanced training? 5 �That was—at that time it was just a combination, it wasn‘t called advanced, it was just all training and it was ten weeks duration for the whole boot camp period. After that, we came home in June of 1953 for ten days of liberty. Interviewer: What happened after that? Then we went back to Camp Pendleton and joined the 3rd Marine Division and we were there from 1952, the latter part of 1952, and went over to Japan in 1953, I think it was January we headed over to Japan. We weren‘t going to Japan, we were going to Korea. Interviewer: Had you expected, pretty much, all along that you would wind up in Korea? 10:02 Yes, one of us out of the six went directly to Korea and he went with the air wing of the Marine Corps. The other five of us went with what they call the ―grunts‖, and we went from the 3rd Marine Division to, on boats, on a ship. We went on an APA and it‘s very crowded. You‘ve got a whole battalion of Marines on one boat and it was a WWII boat. I think it went about twenty knots, if it went that fast, and we were on the ocean for twenty days. Interviewer: Did a lot of the guys get sick? Oh yeah, terribly sick, everybody got sick. I think it‘s a get go when you go out, because as soon as we got out of San Diego harbor everybody got sick it seemed like. Once we got onto the water and were out there four or five days, we were doing okay. 11:03 We even went through a typhoon, so it was okay. Interviewer: I don’t know, when in the middle of a typhoon did you start to wonder if you were going to survive to the other end? 6 �Oh yeah, everybody got scared and like everything else and that‘s when you pray to God, but they put you in these holds and they have a lockdown which is water tight doors. It‘s not fun in there, because everybody‘s having their breakfast come up and some people don‘t go to breakfast because of that. When we got—we didn‘t know we were going to Japan, we thought we were going to Korea and when we got near—I don‘t know when the order came, but they diverted us to Japan. Interviewer: When did you arrive in Japan? I don‘t know the exact date, but it was in the winter. We got to Japan and we were put in tents, because they didn‘t expect us there. 12:04 Interviewer: Did you find out why it was you were diverted from Korea over to Japan? Yeah, we did, we found out that the armistice was coming and they said they were not going to send any more troops in country at that time. I don‘t know, I‘m assuming the Captain of the ship got orders to go to Japan and we ended up in Gifu Japan and some of us ended up in Sasebo Japan and some of us ended up in northern Japan called—I don‘t remember the name of the base up there. Interviewer: You were traveling as a unit. You were not just going in as We replacements; you were traveling with your specific battalion. We were a whole battalion, yeah, we were the 3rd Marine Division, so units going from San Diego were all going on different ships, so in our convoy, I think there were six ships. 13:00 Interviewer: Now, you go into Gifu and what was it like there? 7 �It was a shocker at first, because at the camp that we went to, it still had holes in the walls from guns that would fire at the base. It was a Japanese airbase at one time and it still had the holes in the walls and everything, and we didn‘t expect that, this is 1953. We didn‘t expect that and then we saw signs around the base saying ―Americans go home‖ and all that bit, so it‘s kind of scary. Then there were certain areas you couldn‘t go into. They said, ―These are communist areas and you can‘t go in there‖ and the Mayday celebration, that was pretty much a big deal over in Japan and we didn‘t like that. There were a whole lot of things we had to get used to, and then the customs like you don‘t wear shoes inside some places, and they had temples they didn‘t want you to go into and things like that. 14:03 More restrictions than you had in the United States. Interviewer: But, they were restrictions on all the Americans not just you. On everybody, yeah Interviewer: So, what did you spend your time doing while you were in Japan? Most of the time, if we weren‘t in training, most of the time we played cards, just stayed on the base, watched movies and things like that. Interviewer: So, they didn’t have anything in particular for you to do except just to be there. Kill time, just kill time Interviewer: How long did you wind up staying there? I was Gifu until I went to a unit called Sub Unit One Provisional Casual Center in Kyushu, Japan and I went up there, and they were part of the 1st Marine Division in Korea. 15:00 We were the hospital unit, really, and we interviewed the guys that came 8 �from Korea that had to be medevaced. We had to interview them and report what was wrong with them and things like that. Interviewer: How did you end up with that assignment? I reenlisted in Japan. I was on my way back and like I said, I went in in 1952 and this was almost 1954, or 1955, so I extended and I didn‘t release at that time, I extended my tour to stay over there. Interviewer: Were they making much of an effort to encourage people to extend, or reenlist, or was it just an option you got? No, every time you got close they would ask you to reenlist and they were trying to keep people in. It depended on your rank and I kind of accelerated a little bit went I went in there. I went from—I left there a private and I was a sergeant in a couple years there. 16:05 So, I went right to Gifu, Japan and I was a sergeant. Interviewer: Why did you want to stay in the service? The reason I stayed in—I called back to Grand Rapids and talked to my dad, and said, ―What‘s the job situation in Grand Rapids?‖ He said, ―Poor‖, and he said, ―If you want to work in a factory, fine‖, and I said, ―I don‘t want to work in a factory‖, so I said, ―I‘m going to stay in the Marine Corps, I like it here‖. I enlisted the first time for three years and by that time I had six years in the Marine Corps after that enlistment and I said, ―I‘m just going to stay, stay for three‖. It‘s a funny thing that at that time the top pay for a sergeant was a hundred and seventy –five dollars a month, and that looked pretty good at that time. Interviewer: So basically then, you pretty much decide you’re going to go with and have a career with the Marines, now what impressions did you have of the Japanese 9 �people themselves? 17:00 You mentioned some of it, that there was some antiAmerican sentiment there, but overall, what was it like for you? The Japanese people treated me well. They taught me how to play a card game they have called Hanafuda, and I played that game with the Japanese people and I had a—I was fine with them, no problems at all. Interviewer: Did they send you then back to the states? Yes, I came back to the El Toro Marine base, that is no longer there, around Santa Ana, California and I stayed there approximately four, or five months and I didn‘t like it. I told them I wanted to go back overseas and they sent me to Okinawa. Interviewer: What were you doing at El Toro? At El Toro I worked with the MP‘s. 18:00 My field was admin, but I worked with the MP‘s at El Toro, and me and the gunnery sergeant, we didn‘t get along and I said, ―Well, I don‘t want to stay here‖, so I asked to go back over. Interviewer: When you go over this time, where do you go? Okinawa, a place called Camp Zukeran, Okinawa and I was stationed there for fourteen months. Interviewer: What duties did you have there? I was the admin chief of the battalion, and while I was there I didn‘t like the outfit I was with, really. I went to the weapons company and I think that‘s when I first realized the segregation coming from the officers, because I was Weapons Company Admin Chief. 19:00 And my first sergeant—the Marine Corps had a way of grading from zero to four for people who were NCO‘s, and four being the top and zero being the bottom. Well, there were three sergeants in my group that were under the first sergeant and our 10 �company got the highest rating for admin, and my first sergeant was proud of it, he was proud of it, and when I took my record book in for the Captain to give me my grade, because the captain had to put the grade in there, the other two sergeants got 4.0‘s and I got a 3.0, so when my book came out, my first sergeant looked at it and he took it right back in there. 20:00 There was a big argument and I could hear them and when it came back it had a 4.0, so he told me what happened, the first sergeant did. I knew we were good, our company was good, because earlier the battalion commander wanted me to come over and be the admin chief for the battalion, and I told him he had a staff sergeant there and I‘m a sergeant. I said, ―You got a staff sergeant that‘s admin chief‖, and he said, ―Well, I want you to come over‖, and I said , ―I can‘t take his job‖, and what I really was counting on was, ―Hey, promote me to staff sergeant and I‘ll come over there‖, but I didn‘t want to go over there that way, so I told him I didn‘t want to come over there that way and he said, ―Okay‖, and he understood. Our company commander, he was bad, he was bad, and he marked all the black Marines low. Interviewer: Now, was he a southerner? Yup, he was from the south. 21:00 Interviewer: As far as you could tell, at that point, being in the Marine Corps in the “50’s”, over the course of a number of years, did you have a sense of what proportion of officers, and so forth, had that kind of attitude? Did you think—was that unusual for you, or was that pretty much the norm? Well, at that time, we only had one black officer in the Marine Corps, and that was Colonel Peterson and at that time he was a Lieutenant, I think. At El Toro, while I was there, he was refused to go into the officers club, and he had to come back and get, what 11 �we call, the officer of the day who is in charge of the base, to get him into the officers club, because they wouldn‘t let him in there. He did get in, but the officers in the Marine Corps when I was in, in the 50‘s, all--the majority of them were southern officers and there was resentment there. 22:03 Interviewer: Was there pressure on them from above to adjust and get used to it? Well, the senior Marines were NCO‘s and a lot of them were from Montford Point and they knew about the segregation, but the Marines from the north, we weren‘t really accustom to that and we had to get used to it. They would tell us about the officers, ―Stay away from him and stay away from him‖, the senior NCO‘s that were from Moffett Point, and it was hard for us to pick up on that. Interviewer: Now, does the climate change as you go into and through the 60’s, is there a point where more and more of the Marine officers, and so forth, are simply accepting of the black soldiers and pitting them based on how they perform? 23:03 During the 60‘s it did change and it got a little better each year and you didn‘t have to prove yourself, but I had a Marine Captain tell me that he would never promote a black person, because he said, ―They have to prove themselves to me‖. He was a Polish man from, and his dad was from Poland, and I said, ―Where are you from?‖ He told me, somewhere back in New York, and I said, ―Where was your dad born?‖ He said, ―Poland‖, and I said, ―My dad was born in Michigan‖, and I said, ―Where was your grandfather born?‖ He said, ―My family is from Poland‖, and I said, ―My grandfather was born in Michigan‖, and I said, ―I‘m and American‖, so I was really resentful of that. He really got angry with me and shut me up real quick. 24:00 12 �Interviewer: Alright then, how long did you spend—fourteen months in Okinawa, was that it? Fourteen months and I came back in 1957 and then in 1958 I went, I‘m sorry, I went to school over at Parris Island, South Carolina. An incident happened there where me and a white sergeant were both staff sergeants, we got on a plane in California, flew to Atlanta Georgia, walked into the waiting room, I paid no attention and I walked into the waiting room with him, we both sat down waiting for our plane to go to South Carolina, and a man walks up to me and he said, ―Where are you from?‖ I looked at him and I said, ―Well, I‘m from Grand Rapids, Michigan‖. He just looked at me and he walked away, so my friend said, ―Look at that sign‖ and the sign said, ―White Waiting Room‖. 25:00 I said, ―I guess we better get out of here‖, so we both got up and walked out. We just waited outside until the plane got there and went on. Interviewer: What was the school or training? It was the advanced admin training school and I think there were about forty of us in the class, and as we graduated from that we went our separate ways and everything. Although we had a couple of incidences where we got followed back from Savannah, Georgia one night and a couple of cars followed us all the way back to the gate and the MP stopped them at the gate and things like that. Interviewer: Did you go off the base much? I did, and I only went off, I think, twice to Savannah, and there was one of our sergeants, he was a staff sergeant like me, and he said, ―I am never going off this base again‖, after that night we got followed back. 26:03 The only time he went off was when we flew 13 �out of South Carolina. My friend and I, we went back to southern California, he was from northern California, but we went back to southern California. Interviewer: That has to be kind of a strange experience to go in and out of sort of a segregated society and having some people treating you one way and others a different one. Did you think, “Well that’s just how it is right now?” Yeah, we did, you know, and then when this happened to us you just absorb it and say, ―Well this is the way things are and they‘re going to be that way‖, but I went from there, after school, I went back to El Toro base and it was my mistake for enlisting, for the first time, for six years, because they wanted drill instructors and I didn‘t want to be a drill instructor, but I enlisted for six years and I had a six year obligation. 27:04 they said, ―You‘re going to drill instructors school‖, and I said, ―I don‘t really want to go‖, but I went. I finished the frill instructors school and my first platoon that I had down there was an honor platoon and I had a little run in with a little General called General Krulak. He was five foot two, my first General in the Marine Corps when we were on the field, and I was on the drill field one day with my platoon and I was the only one out there and I tried to stay away from General Krulak. San Diego‘s got a real long strip and his office was at the end. The Colonel of our outfit, who is six foot four, and when you looked down there you could see Krulak and the Colonel, because one was six four and the other was five two. 28:00 I saw them walking towards me, so I turned my platoon and went the other way, and they turned. I said, ―Oh, shoot‖, so I turned them again and came back and here came the Colonel, he was running and calling, ―Sergeant, sergeant, stop‖, so I stopped them and General Krulak walked up to me and asked me to put the platoon through certain drills and I did. He said, ―How do you like being a drill instructor?‖ My 14 �mouth got going too fast and said, ―I don‘t like it‖, and that was the wrong words, and he got right up in my face and his stars looked like they were that big and he had two stars. He said, ―Do you want to be relieved sergeant?‖ I said, ―General, do you mean right now?‖ He said, ―Right now‖, and I said, ―No, sir‖. I said, ―I‘ll do my job‖, and he said, ―Alright‖, and I took my platoon and got out of there. 29:00 Anyway, when my platoon graduated, we had what they called the ―drill instructors mess hall‖ and I was sitting in the mess hall for breakfast, and he knew--when he, when General Krulak came through the door, I saw him and I put my head down hoping he wouldn‘t see me, but he did. He walked over to me and he said, he knew my platoon had graduated as an honor platoon, and he said, ―How do you like being a drill instructor now sergeant Redwine?‖ I thought, ―Oh, oh, he knows my name‖, and he didn‘t know my name the first time, he knows it now, so I said, ―I don‘t like it, but I‘ll do my job‖, so he pushed his chair back and said, ―Well, that‘s all I can ask‖, and I said, ―Well‖, and that was it. Interviewer: How long did you last as a drill instructor? Three years, I was there during 60, 61, and 62. 30:04 Interviewer: Did you, as a drill instructor, did you have any ideas of how you were going to go about it in terms of how you were going to treat your men and things like that? Did you have good, or bad, examples in mind from your own experience? We had a—no, I did not, we had a plan of the day and we went by that plan. You had to get up at a certain hour, you had to basic rifle marksmanship for an hour, you had to go to classes at a certain hour and there‘s so many platoons that you had to be on schedule and you had to be there at that certain time and be at that certain time and so forth. It was dictated along the day, what you would do, and at one time I had two platoons. That was 15 �when the Vietnam war had started and we had two platoons and three drill instructors, and we would go home, change clothes, and come right back. 31:01 We took one platoon through it, go home and change clothes, and come right back, because you had to have two drill instructors with a platoon all day long. So, that means one person got to go home, so when your uniform felt like it was getting dirty, or something, you would say, ―I gotta go home and change clothes‖, so that guy went and the other guys stayed. So, it was really rough there during that last part of my time. Interviewer: What years were you a drill instructor? 1960, 61, and 62 Interviewer: At that stage, we didn’t really have any significant number of combat troops in Vietnam. No Interviewer: But, I guess the cold war was getting interesting in a lot of ways, so maybe they were building up the Marine Corps at that time. I think we had troops there, but I don‘t think they were recorded. Interviewer: In any case it created business for you. Yeah, we had a thing called CACK, and I don‘t know what the correct acronym really means, but it was an outfit over in Vietnam before they built up so bad. 32:03 That‘s when the Marine corps started drafting, is when we got our two platoons, because they weren‘t drafting before that. Interviewer: So, how do you manage to get out of being a drill instructor? Finish the tour, and then I went to Bellingham, Washington to the I&I staff up there and I was up there for three years. 16 �Interviewer: So, what is and I&I staff? It is called Inspector Instructor staff. You work with the reserve units of the Marine Corps and I went up there and I ran into a bunch of my recruits that I had in boot camp. They all knew me up there, so that‘s really another story of when I ran into segregation. Bellingham, Washington had one black person in it and it was a woman married to a white man. 33:01 I went up there ahead of my family, because I‘d married when I was down in San Diego, and I asked her about it and she said, ―they don‘t like us here in town‖, so I said, ―I don‘t understand that, because I rented a place here, right here and the man didn‘t say anything about it and he rented me a house‖. So, anyway, she said, ―They don‘t like us here‖, and I said, ―Okay‖, and I went back to my office and talked to my Captain and he said he was from Oklahoma and he told me, he said, ―I didn‘t know you were coming here‖ ―I don‘t understand‖, I said, ―I know you got advanced word that I was coming here‖, and what he was telling me, was that he didn‘t know a black man was coming. So, he said, ―Well, they don‘t like you here‖, and he said, ―Let‘s go down town and see what kind of a reception we get‖. 34:00 Well, he wasn‘t aware that I came up a week ahead of time and went to an office up there, went right downtown to the hotel, sat right there and got my room and everything ad left. Then I came back and reported in, and he wasn‘t aware of that. So, when we went down there, people are saying ―Hi‖ and I was saying ―Hi‖ to them and he said, ―They seem to know you‖, and I said, ―I‘ve been here, I‘ve been here before‖, so he said, ―Well, I guess it‘s okay‖, and I said, ―I don‘t understand what you‘re talking about‖, so we went back to the office and I stayed there from the last part of 1963 until the early part of 1966. Interviewer: What was life up there like? 17 �It was nice, my wife was a registered nurse, my first wife, she was a registered nurse, and when we got there, she went to the Bellingham Hospital and told them she was a registered nurse and they said, ―Can you come to work tomorrow?‖ So, she went right to work. 35:01 We were there and they loved her up there. Bellingham was a—I had no problems in that city. Interviewer: What did your daily duties consist of up there? Mainly we were, we were at an office up there, which was right on the bay, which was an administrative office, and we had the reserves in there every week. Some were there for a week and then some were there for a whole week-end. We took them to training and we went up to training with the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada, we had a training outfit up there with them, a session, and we took the troops to Camp Pendleton twice for training. Flew them down, and flew them—so basically our job was just to train them when they came in on the week-ends. 36:00 They called them ―week-end warriors‖, and that‘s what they did, they came in on the week-ends and we had training for them. Interviewer: Now, over the course of the time you’re there, they are now starting to send Marines in significant numbers over to Vietnam. Now, were you following that, or paying attention to that news, or just minding your own business? I wasn‘t until I found out they were sending Marines over there in groups, real big groups, and then they said they were forming the 5th Marine Division and I thought, ―Boy, this is getting big‖, so we got orders to disband and we disbanded the 56th Rifle Company, that‘s what it was called, and then, us who were on active duty went to Camp Pendleton for the 5th Marine Division. 18 �Interviewer: By and large the reservists were not being called up to go to Vietnam, so the guys who were training weren’t going to go, but the active personnel were all available. 37:02 Now, the reservists could go if they wanted to go, but most of them didn‘t go, but we had no choice, the active duty people had no choice. I was a staff sergeant when I got there and when I got down to Camp Pendleton I was a gunnery sergeant, and I was the senior enlisted black person in the outfit. Interviewer: Then, what specific unit were you assigned to? I was assigned to the 3rd Battalion 26th Marines, 5th Marine Division. Interviewer: How long was it before you go over to Vietnam? Well, when we left Washington State, I brought my family back here, and I had a wife and two children at the time. Then I went to Camp Pendleton and took over the 3rd Battalion 26th Marines. Interviewer: Then, how long did you stay there before you go to Vietnam? I think we were there from July through August and we went over to Vietnam. 38:04 We went aboard ship, I think, in September was the time, of 1966. Interviewer: What was that voyage like? That voyage was a lot different. Like I said, I was a gunnery sergeant then and a little senior, so the Navy has a rank of E7 and above and they call them chiefs. At that time it was E7 only, so I was a gunnery sergeant, so I was up there, so I could go into the chief‘s quarters. They put us aboard an APA, a ship to take us across, and we went through a typhoon again. This time we went through the typhoon it was a little different. While I was on ship, my boss was a Major and I was a senior enlisted man. 39:00 He called me 19 �on the APA and I had to report to him of the troops, the condition of the troops. He told me, he said, ―Give me a report every day‖, and I said, ―I will sir‖, so the Navy was getting me across this water and it was rough, so I said, ―Don‘t we have a PA system here?‖ He said, ―Yeah‖, so I said, ―Well, let‘s use the PA system, I don‘t like going across that deck‖. All that water, the water‘s up here and then down here, and up here. We had a carrier with us and sometimes you could look down and see the carrier and sometimes look up here and the carrier‘s up here, you know, the swells are so large and everybody was sick. One day he called over and he said, ―I want to know the condition of those tanks‖, well, I said, ―Okay‖, so I called the gunnery sergeant who was in charge of the tanks and I said, ―Go down and inspect the tanks‖. I said, ―I‘m not going down that hole‖, so I told him, because I was senior and I didn‘t have to go down there. 40:00 So, he went down there to inspect the tanks and when he came up he was upchucking and everything, you know, because of the gasoline and the fumes down there. One of our tanks with a blade on it had come loose and it punctured the side of the ship at little bit. Anyway, we were outside of Okinawa and our ship split two inches at the seam. The Captain came on and he said, ―All hands don your life jackets‖. Now usually, they put you through a drill, and they say, ―All hands don your life jackets‖, and then they say, ―This is a drill‖, so when he said, ―All hands don your life jackets‖, everybody was waiting for, ―This is a drill‖, and it never came, so everybody got scared, ―Whoa, what‘s happening?‖ He said, ―We have a split in the seam of two inches, but I think we can make it to Okinawa‖. 41:00 We were thinking, ―I hope we can make it to Okinawa‖, and he said I think, ―We‘re only going to be making seven knots‖, and he said, ―There‘s another typhoon coming behind us‖, and all the Marines on there said, ‗We can swim 20 �faster than this boat can move, let‘s go in the water‖, and we said, ―No, he thinks we‘ll make it‖, and they said, ―Well, we hope we do‖, well we did. They had to tow that ship back to the United States after we got off it, and we got off in Okinawa and went abourd a carrier called the Wasp and the Wasp took us to Vietnam. Interviewer: Where did you land in Vietnam? We landed at a place called—we ended up at a place called Dong Ha, but we got off the ship in the ocean and got into a small boat, and we went up the river to Dong Ha. 42:00 I was at Dong Ha, from when I got there, until about six months. I was there six months, I think. Interviewer: Alright Then I left and went to Phu Bai, which is a base in the same province, but a little bit south. Interviewer: At Dong Ha, what was the situation there when you got there, as far as you could tell? What was your unit doing? When we first got there we were fine, we were fine. I think we were a surprise to the NVA‘s. Anyway, we did not receive a whole lot of fire. We did see fire, maybe, a week after we got there. We went into places called Kobe, and Ton Ton, it‘s two villages and we were in between them and we got shot at from there, and our Colonel called in the village chief and told him, ―We‘re here to protect you and if we get fired on again we‘re going to have to fire on you base, on your village‖. 43:02 So, one night we noticed— our intelligence told us that people were leaving the village and to be prepared to fire, so as soon as one round came out of there--and we had a battery called ―Charlie Battery‖, 21 �big guns, and as soon as that shell came out, ―Charlie Battery‖ just fired in there, because they were all ready for them and we knew we were going to get hit. Interviewer: Were you the first American troops into Dong Ha then? I think we were the first Marines, I don‘t know if the army was in there or not. Interviewer: Were there American, or South Vietnamese, troops in the area? Were there other bases around? There were South Vietnamese south of us, because they used to shoot overhead, and we had to finally ask them, I didn‘t ask them, but, of course, the Colonel asked them, not to fire over the top of us, because they had what they call short rounds. 44:01 They didn‘t make it all the way, so they were firing into the north, because Dong Ha sits right here and there‘s the water and there‘s North Vietnam, so they were just shooting over the top of us into North Vietnam. So they had to stop them from shooting over there, because those short rounds were landing on us. Interviewer: Okay, were you patrolling out into the countryside and up to the DMZ or what were you doing? We patrolled the whole area there in Dong Ha right along the river, and I don‘t know where we were, actually, all the time, but I can tell you we were out there and a couple times we were very, very close to NVA. We had a lot of, not NVA, but Vietcong running around our place. 45:01 They were running around all over. Interviewer: What were they doing? Sabotage, all of the trucks would be flat and some of the engines destroyed. We never got a direct fire from the, and I just remember one incidence where standing there, there was a man standing on our base and all the Vietnamese stayed away from him and he 22 �moved and they moved away from him, so the MP‘s went over and got him, and he had a grenade on him. That was close, and I had a Vietnamese approach me and he started walking towards me and I‘m sitting in my Jeep and he walked towards me and I told him to stop. He said, ―I‘m one of you‖, and I said, ―No you‘re not, stop‖. He was not a Marine. 46:02 I said ―Stop‖, so he wouldn‘t stop, he kept coming, so I had to pull out my pistol and point it at him. I didn‘t shoot him, I just pointed it at him and he stopped. He said, ―I‘m one of you‖, and I said, ―You‘re not, stay where you are‖, so my driver was getting anxious and said, ―I think yo ought to take him out‖, and I said, ―Let‘s just move‖, so we moved on. Interviewer: Now, at this time, what kind of orders do you have, or to what extent were you being told what you were doing there? Not a lot, we didn‘t receive a lot of information. The only reason I had some information was because I was, like I said, an admin and I worked in the G3 and had contact with the G2‘s and the G1‘s. I only know one night I was sitting there one night and a G3 and a Major called and said, ―We have to shoot, because we got NVA‘s coming at us‖, and that was during a Tet. 47:01 He said, ―We have to report, because they‘re two hundred of them a hundred yards away‖, or something. I know they came back and said, ―We can‘t shoot them‖, and it was because of the celebration, and he told them, ―If we don‘t shoot, we‘re going to be overrun‖, so that was the scariest time I was there, because my Lieutenant got hit and I was on the ground. Interviewer: So, you did come under fire at that point? Yeah, they were shooting at us. Interviewer: And was this small arms fire, or mortars? 23 �Small arms fire, mortars, we call mortars small arms. Interviewer: So, this probably would have been a Tet 1967, the big Tet Offensive is in 1968. This was in 1966 Interviewer: But, in 1966---well This was not a Tet offensive, but NVA‘s coming over. Interviewer: Coming in and attacking while you were there. So, basically what happened that night, or what do you remember about that? 48:00 The only thing I remember about that night is that we fired back, Charlie battery opened up and fired back. I know they went out and did what they call a body count and I did not go out. I had a couple of guys get hit, my people, and I went to the hospital. Like I said, my Lieutenant got hit, got killed. Interviewer: That’s the first time you had really seen combat casualties, or anybody you knew get hit? Yeah, it got really bad, because my staff sergeant got shot and he had to go to Okinawa, they flew him out he was so bad, but other than that—I didn‘t get hit, I didn‘t get a scratch. 49:00 Interviewer: At this point, what kind of defenses did the base have? To what extent were you dug in, or fortified while you were there? We were all dug in, we all had foxholes right next to us and we stayed in them. Everybody was just dug in. You would walk around and just see people lying in foxholes and things, trying to stay alive, because Dong Ha got hit really badly. 24 �Interviewer: A little bit later on there was a fairly substantial battle that went on in that area. Yeah, I was down at Phu Bai at that time and I didn‘t—I know a Lieutenant I was stationed with at San Diego, he called down, and I didn‘t realize who he was until he said, ―Is this Staff Sergeant Redwine? I said, ―Yeah‖, and he said, ―This is Lieutenant Boyd, I‘m now Major Boyd‖, and I said, ―Oh, okay‖, so I knew who he was. Interviewer: Alright, so you’re there in Dong Ha for about six months. 50:02 You have one, reasonably, serious attack during that time. There was more than one. Interviewer: Okay, was it jut periodically they would just come in close and start shooting at you? Ah, you would hear them all day long, shots being fired, like sniper fire, you‘d hear it all day long, and somebody would shoot back. Another incident I had there, at the time, this was in February and my wife had twins, and the Red Cross sent me a message out in the field saying that my wife had twins—no, they didn‘t say my wife had twins, they said my wife had delivered. So, I went to the Red Cross and I said, ―What do I have?‖ They didn‘t say what it was and I already had two boys, so I said, ―What do I have?‖ 51:01 They said, ―It doesn‘t say‖, so I said, ―Can you wire back and ask?‖ It came back, ―Wife fine, children fine‖, and I said, ―Well, what did I have?‖ They said, ―We don‘t know‖, so I said, ―How can I find out?‖ They said, I had to go to Da Nang, so I asked my boss, ―Can I go down to Da Nang?‖ He said, ―Yeah, if you can catch a plane‖, so I said, ―Okay‖, so I went over there and caught a plane and flew to Da Nang. I went into the Red Cross and them to wire back and see what I had. So, they came back the same way, 25 �―Wife fine, children fine‖. I said, ―Look, I got two kids, ask them what gender, what it is that my wife had‖, so then it came back, ―Boy and a girl‖, and I said, ―Thank you very much, I got twins‖, because my wife didn‘t know she was going to have twins, and we didn‘t get mail up there too often. 52:00 I had twins, so I flew back to Dong Ha and on my way into Dong Ha, we were getting sniper fire from the ground, so the pilot told me he wasn‘t sure he could touch down, so I said, ―Hey, I‘ve got to get there‖, so anyway, we went back to Da Nang and I got an army plane, the guy was coming up to Dong Ha. I don‘t know what kind of army plane it was, but it was a twin engine plane. He said, ―I‘m going to Dong Ha‖, and I said, ―Well, can you drop me off?‖ He said, ―Yeah‖, so I got on this plane and went to Dong Ha. Well, he came in on the runway, he hit the runway and turned around and said, ―Get out‖, and the plane was still moving. I said, ―We‘re moving‖, and he said, ―Get out‖, so I jumped out and zoom, he was gone, and I hit the ground rolling. Right after that mortars came in, you know and he got out of there just in time, so he wasn‘t staying around. Interviewer: So, you’re there at Dong Ha, does your unit move, or do you just get moved to Phu Bai? 53:02 I‘m the only one that left and went to Phu Bai. Interviewer: What assignment did you have in Phu Bai? In Phu Bai I was division, I was division adj—not division, I was division admin chief. I stayed there until I came back in November of 1967. Interviewer: Now, what did your duties consist of as Division Admin Chief? Moving people, moving people from--according to their MOS, as to where they should go. If a person came in and he had an infantry MOS, we had to find out which company 26 �needed him and if he had a cooks MOS, we would find out who needed him and then we would move him in there, we moved him into there. Interviewer: What was life like there on the base? Day to day, what were you doing? Phu Bai was like an R&R camp after coming out of Dong Ha. It was, ―Boy, this is nice‖. 54:01 You can walk around in the daytime without our flak jackets on. I just remember, I had to go back to Dong Ha one time and this Major asked me to go with him and because I was from Dang Ha he wanted me to go with him, because he wasn‘t there. I went with him and I said, ―I really don‘t want to go up there Major‖, and he said, ―Well, I can order you‖, so I said, ―Okay‖, so I went with him. I put a flak jacket on and went up there and rode in the back of the Jeep with a shotgun, you know. Then we came back and I was scared all the way up and all the way back, but we never got any hits, or anything like that. But, Phu Bai was nice, we had a Marine go crazy over there and shoot up the General's house he had. The commanding General got killed, not by him, but the commanding General got killed, I don‘t remember his name, but it was in a helicopter crash. 55:00 I stayed at there Phu Bai until October, or somewhere around there. They said, ―You‘re going home in November‖, because we had these rotations and it was my time to go, so I went to Da Nang and flew out of Da Nang. Interviewer: Now, while you were in Vietnam, I guess first of all, how would you characterize the morale of the units you were serving with? You had difficulties in Dong Ha in the headquarters when you were working there. Well, the older Marines, it was okay with them, but I found out that the younger Marines were real nervous, real scared and really didn‘t know what they were doing, and you had 27 �to direct them all the time. The senior NCO‘s were more adept and handled the troops. 56:03 Although, we did have a NCO‘s that were scared to death. I remember one sergeant, a master sergeant, he was scared to death to be there and he ended up—they just moved him out, he couldn‘t handle it. He was a W—I‘m sorry, he was a Korean vet and they had called him back. He was scared, so they just moved him out and sent him back home. Interviewer: So, it didn’t necessarily matter that they might have had combat experience before, in terms of who wound up being affected this time, or not. No, it did not, because those who had combat experience before were just as scared as the others, but I think the scariest part was, they didn‘t know who they were fighting, because they were fighting, sometimes, a person who was out in the rice paddy during the day time, out there pulling rice right next to the camp, and in the night he was a gun and fighting. 57:01 Interviewer: What impression did you have of the Vietnamese themselves, to the extent that you had contact with them? I know you‘re putting this on film, but I‘ll just have to tell you that I was really—didn‘t want anything to do with them. I didn‘t associate with any of them, and all the time I was in Vietnam I ate food out of the mess hall, or out of my kit. I drank water out of a water buffalo, which was warm water, it wasn‘t cold, but we had experiences where the Vietnamese were taking glass, grinding it up and putting it in water and Marines were drinking that and I didn‘t want that, so when I went to the water buffalo I got my own water and everything like that. I didn‘t associate with them at all. Interviewer: Did you have Vietnamese working on the bases? 28 �They were working on the bases, but none by me. 58:00 Interviewer: Now, while you were in the states and Okinawa at different times, you had noticed some issues regarding racial tension and the like. Now, was there much of that in the ranks, or so forth, or in Dong Ha, did it not matter? It didn‘t matter in Dong Ha and it didn‘t really matter in Phu Bai either. We didn‘t have the racial problems that we had back here in the states. They didn‘t need this over there. Interviewer: Was drug use becoming an issue yet? I never got involved with the issue of drugs. I had a platoon of men on guard one night and I caught one of the men smoking marijuana and I just sent him home, not home, I sent him back to the offices and said, ―He‘s relieved, I don‘t want him, so send me somebody else‖. 59:03 that was the only one, I‘ve never run into an issue of drugs, or anything over there. Interviewer: How well would you say that the units you were with were at performing, or doing their jobs, while you were with them? Our unit did well. Our unit was very good and it was good to be associated with the 3rd battalion of the 26th Marines, they were very good. I didn‘t hear of any Marines that were doing bad, all of them were doing good. While I was there, when my Lieutenant got hit, I had to sort of act as the adjutant and I had to go over and look at the bodies, and I think, the worst one I saw was a guy that didn‘t have a head. The worst one I‘d seen, and then we had a warrant officer who had to take what he had, to what they call graves registration and all he had was a head. 00:05 He didn‘t have any part of the body, just the head. I did see bad, bad things happening to our people. Interviewer: But, on the whole they were doing their jobs pretty well? 29 �Oh, they all did, I didn‘t see—there was no cowardice, no—nothing like that. Interviewer: Now, did you do the thing where you were counting down the days until you got to go home? Yeah, I did, and I had a deck of cards like everyone else. Fifty two cards and when it got to fifty two days I started throwing them away, you know, and we counted right down to the day we had to leave. Interviewer: So, you finish, in late 1967 you finish your tour in Vietnam. Now, do you get to go home for a while, or what do you do next? I did, in 1969 I came home, and I‘ll tell you, when we were at Da Nang we were going to get hit that night. 1:02 Word was out that we were going to get hit, so the plane was sitting on the tarmac and I‘m sitting in the—what do you call it? The place where people wait and I didn‘t get on the plane right away, so the crew chief came over to me and said, ―Are you going to go with us?‖ I said, ―Yes I am‖, ―Are you ready to go?‖ I said, ―Yes I am‖, so I ran over to the plane and we took off. When that plane got about to an elevation, I guess of about, I guess, five thousand feet, or so a sigh of relief came over the plane and the guys started crying and everything and it was just ―Whew, we‘re out of here‖, because we didn‘t know if we were going to get hit or not, because it was night and we were supposed to get hit and everybody was scared. 2:00 I came back to the states and I was at San Diego and they were going to put me back on the drill field, but I was selected for the first sergeant. I came back and I had a medical problem. I had hypertension, so they told me I can‘t go back on the field. So, I stayed around San Diego for a while and then they sent me to Camp Pendleton. 3:32 30 �Interviewer: So, we’ve, basically, gotten you back to the states again and assigned back to Camp Pendleton. Was that where you went? Camp Pendleton, yes Interviewer: Now, did you stay there for an extended period of time? Well, I was at Camp Pendleton and I was a gunnery sergeant with base motors and at that time I applied for, and they commissioned me 2nd Lieutenant, so I went from being a first sergeant to being a 2nd Lieutenant. 4:04 Interviewer: Did you then have to go to officer training school, or what happened? No, I went to the brig, which is the jail. I was first sergeant of the 1st Motor Transport Company and when they made me a Lieutenant I went to the brig and I served there, I think, for a year. Interviewer: Now, did you just decide on your own to apply to get promoted, or did people encourage you to do that, or how did that work? Yeah they did, I had a friend of mine who was—we were both E8‘s, three of us really, and we said, ―There‘s this program here, let‘s apply for it and see if we can get it‖, and we were all black, and we applied for it and we all got it. It was something we just did on a whim to see if we could do it. 5:01 Interviewer: Now, does doing that obligate you for a longer time to stay in the service, or you were going to stay in anyway, so it didn’t matter? At that time I had seventeen years in and I had planned to get out at twenty anyway, and in order to retire as an officer you have to serve ten years as an officer, but reserve time counts, so once I transferred to the reserves, after the ten years they promote you to your 31 �highest rank, so I was a 2nd Lieutenant in the brig and then I got orders to go to Okinawa again. Interviewer: Talk a little bit about the duty with the brig. Were you in charge of it? No, I had a Major in charge and I was the admin officer of the brig, but I had a compound. They had five compounds there and they had five officers and each officer had a compound, so we were in charge of the compound. Interviewer: So, how busy was it at Camp Pendleton while you were there? 6:00 Oh, it was terrible, it was very busy and we had over a thousand Marines in the brig. We had everything from a guy going AWOL, unauthorized absence, to murders, and they put me in charge of what they call the maximum security unit, so I wouldn‘t have to go out and check on them all the time, I knew where they were and they couldn‘t go out of the compound. I was in charge of that unit and I had about, I had about a hundred and fifty men and then I had about six guards. Interviewer: Was it a different situation than what it had been a few years earlier? Were there a lot more men, now, in the brig do you think, or do you not know? I don‘t know, but I think that at that time there were a whole lot of men in the brig that shouldn‘t have been in the Marine Corps. 7:07 I don‘t know how they got in the Marine Corps. Interviewer: A lot of them got drafted most likely, and there was, also, the “Project One Hundred Thousand” that had gone on, trying to take in people, who didn’t qualify for the military, being brought in as well. 32 �And you know that at that time, back then, a lot of those guys were given a choice to go into the service, or go to jail and some of them chose the service, and we shouldn‘t have taken them, but they did. Interviewer: Did you have an idea—were they being held there until they would get on trial, or were some of them just there to serve out a number of days and then go back to their units? Some were there for-- like a week-end, some were there for a week, some were there because they had general court marshals, which is the highest you can get, and they were there for years, but we transferred those people to Portsmouth. 8:02 Every month we would transfer Marines to Portsmouth. We‘d fill up and we‘d transfer them to Portsmouth. The long term people who had thirty, forty years of jail time coming. Interviewer: I guess with maximum security, you’d get the hard cases. I had the hard ones; I had the maximum security ones. The other guys got the guys that went over the hill for a certain period of time and everything, but I had the hard ones, but I didn‘t really deal with them a lot, I let the sergeant‘s deal with them and everything and I was just the officer in charge. Interviewer: Now, did you have your family out there living with you, in California, at that point? I did, they were living in San Diego. In fact, one time, I was the officers ditches , the person in charge of the brig, and about two o‘clock at night, no two o‘clock in the morning and the sergeant called me up and said, ―There are two prisoners missing‖, and I said, ―How long have they been gone?‖ 9:01 He said, ―I don‘t know, they‘ve been gone since the last count‖, which was two hours earlier. It was in the morning and I 33 �started to get up and I said, ―Well, I think those guys are gone, so I‘m not going to worry about them‖, so lay back down and I thought, ―Well, let me go down and check‖. I got up and got dressed and got a sergeant with a shotgun and I said, ―Come with me‖, and we went down to the compound, so we looked all around the compound and we couldn‘t find them. I went back to do my report, because I knew I was in trouble, so I went back to do my report and on the way back the sergeant told me, ―Lieutenant, I hear somebody by the fence‖, so I said, ―Okay, you go one way and I‘ll go around‖, and there‘s this guy lying between fences. The prison was set up where-- the brig was set up where I had two, I think it was about fifteen feet apart, fences, two fences, so he got over the first fence, but he couldn‘t get over the second one, because the tower would have seen him. 10:02 The tower guards. So, I walked over there and we—he was lying on the ground and I said, ―Get up off the ground‖, and he got up, and I said, ―Climb back over the fence, because you‘re going back up to jail‖, and he said, ―Am I going to maximum security?‖ Which was my unit, and I said, ―Yes you are‖, because he wasn‘t in there for that, and I said, ―But you‘re going to maximum security now, because you tried to escape‖, but I didn‘t explain all that to him, I just said, ―Yes you are‖. So, he said, ―I‘m not going there‖, so I told the sergeant, I said, ―Shoot him‖, so the sergeant cocked his shotgun and he came over the fence. I said, ―Now, where‘s your buddy?‖ He said, ―I don‘t have a buddy‖, and I said, ―Where-is-your-the man who escaped with you?‖ He said, ―He‘s down by the sign‖, so I went down there and I told him the same thing and he came over the fence, so I took him up and put him in maximum security. Well, my duty ended at eight o‘clock in the morning, so I went home. 11:02 I got home and my wife had a message that the commanding General wants to see me—the chief of staff called and wants me to call him 34 �back, so I just got home and Camp Pendleton and San Diego, there‘s about ninety miles there, so I said, ―yes sir‖, and he said, ―You‘ve got to come back up here, the General wants to see you‖, and I said, ―What for?‖ He said, ―Come back up here‖. The Colonel tells me to come back up and I‘m a Lieutenant, ―Yes sir‖. I change uniform and go back up to the base and the General walks in and he says, ―You did a good job‖, and I said, ―Thank you sir‖, and I felt like saying, ―Is that all you wanted? I could have told you this over the phone‖, you know, you could have told me over the phone, ―Thank you‖, so anyway, I went back home. I drove ninety miles up and ninety miles back, ninety miles up again, my God. 12:00 Well anyway, it so happened that another night, and I was the officer in charge and we had a riot in one of the compounds and there were about two hundred prisoners in there. We had a riot squad that we called up when we had a riot, so I called this Lieutenant up and I said, ―Get your riot squad up here, we‘ve got a riot‖, so he brought his riot squad to the brig and they surrounded the compound. I told the Lieutenant, I said, ―We got to go in there and get my men out of there, I got three sergeants in there and we got to get them out of there‖, and he said, ―I‘m not going in there‖. He was a 1st Lieutenant and I was a 2nd Lieutenant, so I‘m junior, so I said, ―We got to go in there and get my men‖, and he said, ―I‘m not going in there‖, so I said, ―Well, okay, but I‘m going to have to report this in my log‖, and he said, ―I don‘t care, I‘m not going in there‖, so I got two sergeants and I said, ―I want a path right to the house and they put there shotguns down, creating me a nice path and I walked right straight through to the prisoners. 13:03 I went up to the door, knocked on the door and told the guys—they said, ―Who is it?‖ I said, ―Lieutenant Redwine‖ and they said, ―Okay‖ and I said, ―Come on out‖, so they came out and I walked them right back out. I told the 35 �Lieutenant, ―You can take your troops back, I got my men, take them back‖, so I put that in the report. The same thing happened on the following day. I go home and the General wants to see me, my God, so I go back up to the base and the chief of staff says, ―You can just go in and have a seat in his office‖, so I went in and had a seat in his office and I‘m sitting there, so he walks in and I jump up and he says, ―Sit down‖ ,and he came over to me and he said, ―Good job you did last night‖ and that was the second time. It was over a period of time, and he said, ―That Lieutenant that you told to go in there‖, he said, ―He‘s no longer in the Marine Corps‖, and I said, ―Oh, yes sir‖. 14:00 Interviewer: He didn’t do his job. He got him out of there and it surprised me, because he was a 1st Lieutenant and I was a 2nd Lieutenant, but he didn‘t do his job and he got him out of there and he‘s no longer in the Marine Corps. Interviewer: Do you have this duty, basically, for about a year? About a year I was there and then I was transferred to Okinawa again. Then I went over to what they call, the third provisional, third FSR, 3rd Force Service Regiment, and I was the only black officer in the regiment, and that‘s another time when we had—they would—I would—we had what they call meritorious promotion bundle and I was to get people together for the meritorious promotion, so the companies would send in people they wanted promoted meritoriously and I never saw a black person, so this Major, who was the EXO, we got along pretty good. 15:05 He walks in and I said, ―I don‘t have any black people here again‖, and he said, ―You don‘t?‖ I said, ―Yeah, now this is about three, or four months this has gone on‖, and I said, ―Evidently they don‘t get promoted‖, and a long story short, after that we started having some. The commanding officer there 36 �accused me of being—wait a minute, the General, General Jones put out an order that you could not do the ―Black Power‖ sign, raising the fist, I didn‘t, I never did it, but I walked into the mess hall and there was a black officer sitting over there, he was a warrant officer, he was sitting over there near the sign, and I knew him from the states, so I threw up my hand to him like that and I said, ―I‘ll be right there‖, and it got back that I did the ―Black Power‖ sign. 16:00 So, my Colonel calls me in and he says, ―I understand you did the ―Black Power‖ sign in the mess hall‖, and I said, ―When?‖ He says--I forget what morning it was—I said, ―No, I didn‘t do a ―Black Power‖ sign‖, I said, ―The black warrant officer‖, and I told him his name, ―was sitting over there and I just threw up my hand to him, I just recognized him and said ―hi‖ to him‖, and he said, ―Well, this other warrant officer said you did the ―Black Power‖ sign. I said, ―Well, let‘s let him come up here and tell me that I did that. Who said that?‖ He said, ―I‘m not going to tell you‖, and I said, ―You‘re not going to tell me who said it? Well, bring him up here and let him tell me in front of me that I did it‖, and he said, ―I‘m not going to do that‖. Anyway, the Major, who was the XO, spoke up for me and told the Colonel, he said, ―I will investigate this and see what happened, so let‘s see what happens‖, so he went and investigated it. About a week later the Colonel calls me in and said, ―I apologize, it was not the ―Black Power‖ sign, I don‘t know why he said that‖, and I said, ―I told you I didn‘t do it‖. 17:03 So anyway, in the mess, in the officers mess in Okinawa, a friend of mine, a Lieutenant, we were sitting there at the mess and his wife was there, his wife had come over from the states for Christmas, and nobody was dancing with her. She said, ―I want to dance‖, and I said, ―I‘ll dance with you‖, so I got up and I danced with her. When I came back to the table the two officers that were with me said, ―Come on, let‘s 37 �go‖, and I said, ―Go where?‖ They said, ―Let‘s get outa here‖, and I said, ―Okay‖, so we went out and when we got outside they said, ―You better go back to your barracks right away‖, he said, ―There‘s two officers sitting there talking about, what they call, ―frag‖. There are two officers there talking about killing you, because you danced with that white woman‖. 18:00 I said, ―What?‖ Now, this is in 1970. I said, ―What?‘ they said, ―Yeah, they were talking about ―fragging‖ you‖, and I said, ―I‘ll be darn‖, so I went back to my quarters. Well, after that incident passed, I didn‘t worry about it and my Colonel didn‘t say nothing to me, or nothing and nothing happened, but we had a female Lieutenant Colonel, who I knew from the states, we were sergeants together, and she called me up and she said, ―I want you to come to my party‖, so I said, ―What party? Why are you having a party? Is it your birthday?‖ She said, ―No‖, and I said, ―Did you make ―bird‖?‖ She said, ―Bird Colonel, ―Chicken Colonel‖, so I said, ―Okay‖, so I asked this one officer to go with me, because I didn‘t want to go—it was the 1st Marine Division and I was not in the 1st Division, I was the 3rd FSR. 19:03 So, we went over to the party and when we walked in she came up and she hugged me and everything, and I said, ―Congratulations‖. Well, she left and this General came up and said, ―Who are you?‖ I said, ―I‘m Lieutenant Redwine‖, and he said, ―You‘re not one of my officers‖, and I said, ―No sir, I‘m from the 3rd FSR‖, and he said, ―Well, I‘m General Wilson‖. He later became commandant, and He said, ―I‘m General Wilson, and I‘m from Tupelo, Mississippi‖, and I said, ―Well, I‘m Lieutenant Redwine and I‘m from Grand Rapids, Michigan‖. After that, ―Fish‖, the guy that was with me, Fisher, he says, ―Let‘s go‖, so we left and when I got back to my base, my Colonel called me in and he said, ―Who‘s this Colonel you‘re over there hugging?‖ I said, ―Hey, she‘s a friend from way back. I 38 �knew her when she was, way back, a sergeant and now she‘s a colonel, so it‘s got to be a long time‖. 20:05 So anyway, a month later I got orders to go back to the states and my tour was not up. I got there, I think, in June, or July and my tour was supposed to be fourteen months and this was May, so they sent me back to the states in May. Interviewer: What assignment did you get then when you got back? I went back to what they called a schools battalion and served at Camp Pendleton and I was there, but that was strictly because I was black and they moved me out of there. The guy that relieved me wasn‘t even there yet and they don‘t relieve you until the replacement comes. Interviewer: So, that kind of stuff is just still going on and showing up in various places? It‘s amazing that it still shows up, because my cousin from Grand Rapids here was a Marine Corps officer. 21:05 He was a 1st Lieutenant and he went in, I think, in 1985 and he told me that when he---he was stationed in Okinawa, and when he came back he told me his commanding officer called him and told him that he doesn‘t promote black people and as long as he‘s in his outfit he will never be promoted and he was a 1st Lieutenant. He told him that, and he told him, he says, ―If you repeat this conversation I will deny it‖, and he served his time and got out, so it‘s still there. I‘ve talked to many Marines who said that it‘s still there. Interviewer: Now, so you get back, is it 1970 when you get back then? 22:00 I get back in-Interviewer: Early 1971? 1971 39 �Interviewer: Okay I went to a place called schools battalion at Camp Pendleton and then I was, not demoted, but my rank went back—I only served two years as an office and I went back to first sergeant and then I retired in March. Interviewer: Now, was this a point when they downsized the military and sent officers back down to the enlisted rank they had come out of? It was and the officer rank that you had was temporary, so they went back to their enlisted ranks, a lot of them did. When I went back to my enlisted rank I went back— they moved me from Camp Pendleton to the El Toro base and while I was there, they came out with a thing called ―project transition‖, where your last thirty days in the Marine Corps, they let you look for a job outside. 23:04 I think it was thirty days, it was thirty days, or two months, I forget what it was. Anyway, I applied for it and they denied me, so I sad, ―I request mass with the next officer up, senior officer up‖, and my colonel told me, he said, ―Well, you know they‘re going to deny you‖, and I said, ―I don‘t know why, we got other people n ―project transaction‖, why can‘t I get it?‖ He said, ―They don‘t allow E8‘s and E9‘s to go on ―project transition‖, so I requested mass with my next—he went in there, and I see the Colonel and he says, ―No, you can‘t go‖, and I said, ―Well, I request mass with the General‖, and he said, ―Okay‖, so I went to see the General, who was a two star General. He told me, he said, ―I don‘t allow E8‘s and E9‘s to go on ―project transition‖. 24:00 I said, ―General, I got five E8‘s and E9‘s in my outfit working for Disneyland‖, and he said, ―No you don‘t‖, and I said, ―Yes I do‖, so the Sergeant Major of the base was standing there and he told him, he says—he told the Sergeant Major to investigate to see if I was telling the truth and that really hurt me, 40 �because I‘m the first sergeant of an outfit and he as to see if I‘m lying to him. Anyway, we went back to my outfit and he called me a week later and he said, ―You do have the‖, and I said, ―Yes sir, and there‘s other outfits around here that got them working there too. There‘s a lot of E8‘s and E9‘s on ―project transition‖, and he said, ―Well, I‘m not going to let you go‖, and I said, ―Well, then I request mass apacom on the Marine Corps‖, and he said, ‗Are you going to do that?‖ I said, ―Yes sir‖. 25:02 He said, ―What would you think if I went to the commandant and told him that I wanted ―project transition‖?‖ ―General‖, I said, ―You got two stars and I‘m a first sergeant‖, and he said, ―Get out of my office‖, so he ran me out of his office. He called me back, he had the base Sergeant Major call me back and I had to go back in and see him again, and he said, ―I‘m going to let you go on ―project transition‖, but you got to use up all your leave and all your time‖, and I felt like saying, ―Well, why me? You didn‘t do this to the other people, so why me?‖ So anyway, I didn‘t do it, I said, ―Let it go‖, so the Sergeant Major, he told me, he said, ―First sergeant, let me tell you what this General‘s doing for you‖, and I really got mad then, and I let him have it. I said, ―The General is doing nothing for me‖, and that‘s not the words I used, but I said, ―This General is doing nothing for me‖. 26:00 I said, ―It‘s an order from the commandant of the Marine Corps, that enlisted people can go on ―project transition‖, and I said, ―I don‘t need to talk to you no more either‖, and I left his office. He was denying I‘m an E8, but I wasn‘t worried about that, because I‘m through. Anyway, I did get my ―project transition‖, and I went to work for the phone company. Interviewer: Now, was that out in California, or did you come back? It was out in California and I worked for the phone company for twenty years afterwards. Interviewer: All right, and then you also stayed in the reserve for ten years? 41 �I was in the reserve, but I was in inactive reserves and I did not have to report for anything. Interviewer: But, they--ultimately you retire out and you got the rank of 1st Lieutenant at that point? Yes, I retired in March of 1982 and they promoted me to 1st Lieutenant for my retirement. 27:00 Interviewer: Now, when you look back at that kind of career you had in the Marine Corps, how do you think that affected you, or what did you take out of the experience? You know what, I‘m proud of what I did, and if I had to do it all over again I wouldn‘t do it. I did not allow my son to go in the Marine Corps. He wanted to go into something and I talked him out of it and I talked him into going into the air force. He wanted to go into something and I told him, ―Don‘t go into the Marine Corps‖, and I gave him reasons why he shouldn‘t go into the Marine Corps, and I‘m glad I did, but like I said, ―I‘m proud of my service‖, but if I had it to do all over again, I would not go in the Marine Corps. I just have that feeling. Interviewer: I think that kind of gets us about to the conclusion here, and I would like to thank you for coming in and telling your story and being as forthcoming as you were about it 28:01 Some of the stuff might get people hot lining here, but it’s important that people know. 42 �43 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RedwineG1289V Title A name given to the resource Redwine, Gerald (Interview transcript and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Redwine, Gerald Description An account of the resource Gerald Redwine was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1933. After graduating from high school in 1952, Redwine was attending Grand Rapids Junior College when a group of five of his friends suggested they join the military. After both the Air Force and Navy refused to enlist the entire group, due to all the men being black, the group finally enlisted in the Marine Corps. Once Redwine completed boot camp in San Diego, he joined the 3rd Marine Division, which in 1953, received orders to deploy to Korea to participate in the Korean War. However, the brokering of the armistice ended the war and the division re-routed to Japan. After Redwine's deployment to Japan finished, he briefly served at El Toro Naval Air Station in California before transferring to Okinawa. Redwine spent fourteen months on Okinawa and when he returned to the United States in 1957, the Marines sent him to advance training in administration at Parris Island, South Carolina. After finishing the training at Parris Island, Redwine returned to California and went through training to be a drill instructor, a position he held for three years. In 1962, Redwine transferred to Bellingham, Washington to work with the Marine Corps Reserves. After spending a further three years in Washington, the Marines recalled Redwine in 1966 and placed him in the newly-formed 5th Marine Division, which soon deployed to Vietnam. Once in Vietnam, Redwine served in administrative positions in bases at Dong Ha and Phu Bai. When his tour ended in Vietnam, Redwine returned to the United States and worked in the brig at Camp Pendleton, California. Following a year working at the brig, Redwine transferred again to Okinawa as part of the 3rd Marine Service Regiment. When his time in Okinawa ended, Redwine transferred back to the United States, spending time at both Camp Pendleton and El Toro. Finally, in 1972, after having served the mandatory twenty years necessary to earn a pension, Redwine left active-duty. Due to his ethnicity, Redwine faced numerous incidents of discrimination during his time in the military from officers blatantly telling him he would not receive a promotion based on his race to people confronting him when traveling in the South. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Marine Corps Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-11-03 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/90b4ee88455c0dc1172ff7e7a63d17f3.m4v 64dcc507fb1a5fadfdf9d04d019f4942 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/61894893fa98b438dd3c7dfc1529be5d.pdf 508e671d7a16542f7f69196d575cf759 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Sherman Reed Cold War; Post-Cold War 28 minutes 11 seconds *Note: Times in outline correspond with timecode on interview (00:30:57) Early Life -Born on a farm near Jasonville, Indiana, on June 24, 1941 (00:31:14) Overview of Military Service -Started in the Air Force -Did four years of active duty, and three years of inactive reserve -Served as an interceptor weapons control officer -Spent 23 years in the Army Reserve -Retired in 2000 -Picked up by the Chief of Army Reserve to serve as the chaplain ambassador (00:31:45) Seminary -Studied at the Nazarene Theological Seminary in Kansas City, Missouri -Started in 1967 and graduated in 1971 (00:32:13) Air Force Service -Graduated with his bachelor’s degree from Purdue University -Sent to Keesler Air Force Base, Missouri -Train in the Interceptor Weapons Control Course -Part of the Semi-Automatic Ground Environment (SAGE) -Note: Collecting radar information to coordinate responses with NORAD th -Sent to the 848 Aircraft Control and Warning Squadron at Norton Air Force Base, California -Part of NORAD and Air Defense Command -Enjoyed that work -During his time there, he met an Air Force chaplain -Discussed the possibility of becoming a chaplain in the Air Force -Gave Sherman some advice about doing that and what to consider -Got engaged, then married in June 1965 -Five months later, he received orders for the Philippines -Still part of the 848th Aircraft Control and Warning Squadron -Supporting the buildup of forces in Vietnam -Trained in the manual program -Based seven hours north of Clark Field -Worked with other special missions and the interceptor control airspace (00:35:08) Becoming a Chaplain & Joining the Army -Decided that he wanted to go to seminary -Wrote to his denomination requesting a chance to go to seminary �-They approved, which allowed him to get out of active duty -Relocated with his wife to the Midwest to study at the Nazarene Theological Seminary -Notified the Richards-Gebaur Air Force Base that he was part of the active reserve -Three weeks later, he checked in and was told he couldn’t be a chaplain -Due to his job, the Air Force considered him too valuable -Still went to seminary and graduated in May 1971 -Air Force still hadn’t called him up for active duty -2 ½ years later, the Air Force sent him a letter outlining his options -He could either continue with active reserve, or go active duty (but not be a chaplain) -Decided to resign his commission instead -Shortly thereafter, an Army chaplain from Fort Sam Houston came to talk with him -Asked Sherman if he was still interested in becoming a chaplain -Told him that he could get him a direct appointment as a chaplain in the Army -Six months later, he became a chaplain in the Army Reserve -Turns out, the men he had coffee with in town were part of the Army Reserve -Learned about his desire to be a chaplain and got the process going -There were very few Nazarene chaplains, so the denomination wasn’t sure about protocol -Relied on other chaplains, from other denominations, when he first entered the Army (00:41:33) Tour in West Germany – Civil Affairs & Exercise Reforger -He was assigned to the 308th Civil Affairs Brigade -Had to qualify as a civil affairs officer -Meant that he worked with local civilian populations -Worked during Exercise Reforger -Annual exercise conducted by NATO forces to ensure rapid response to Soviet attack (00:42:08) Tour in West Germany – Chapel in the Woods -He was in 5th Corps, and was given an interpreter and driver -Visited American and German soldiers in the field -Met with local clergy and residents -During one outing, his interpreter or driver(?), brought him to a wooded place in the country -Went down a small trail to a clearing occupied by a small, wooden chapel -It had been built sometime between 1750 and 1800 -A local couple was expecting their first child when the woman fell ill -It was a difficult birth, and the mother and child were in poor health -The husband prayed for his wife and child’s recovery -They got better, and in return, he built the chapel in the woods -There was a local woman at the chapel cleaning the place when they visited -Said she felt no fear around Sherman -Somehow, she knew he was a chaplain despite a lack of insignia (00:47:44) Tour in West Germany – Dairy Farm -During his time in Germany, he tried to get acquainted with German units during field exercises -At first, they were hesitant of his presence, because they didn’t know why he was there -On one occasion, he went to a German unit camped at a dairy farm on the edge of a small town -They had occupied the dairy barn and set up a generator �-The farm woman was upset because the generator caused one of her cows to go crazy -Local veterinarian told her it would have to be euthanized -Sherman met with the woman to talk with her, and offer her guidance and comfort -She was deeply moved because she thought the Army sent him specifically for her -German commander paid for the euthanasia and for the lost cow (00:54:05) Reserve Officers Association -He now visits Europe twice a year -National chaplain for the Reserve Officers Association (ROA) -He is also part of the Congress of International Officers of Reserve -Otherwise known as the Interallied Confederation of Reserve Officers -NATO-affiliated, non-political, non-profit organization -He is on the Partnership for Peace Committee (00:55:52) First Army Assignment – Fort Carson -His first Army assignment was at Fort Carson, Colorado in 1977 and 1978 -Assigned to the post chapel and worked with the rabbi -Remembers a woman stationed at Fort Carson came to the chapel, visibly distraught -Her husband was stationed at Fort Sill, Oklahoma -They had been promised by the Army that they could be stationed together -Sherman got her information and told her to come back in 24 hours -Didn’t know what he would be able to do to help her -Rabbi told him that as chaplains, they had extensive power to resolve situations like this -All he had to do was call the commander at Fort Sill and explain the situation < Tape ends before the interview concludes > � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_ReedS2068V Title A name given to the resource Reed, Sherman R (Interview outline and video), 2016 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-10-26 Description An account of the resource Sherman Reed was born in Jasonville, Indiana, on June 24, 1941. He originally served in the Air Force before becoming an Army chaplain. He received his interceptor weapons control training at Keesler Air Force Base, Missouri, then was assigned to the 848th Aircraft Control and Warning Squadron at Norton Air Force Base, California. During his time with the 848th, he was deployed to a base north of Clark Field in the Philippines to assist with the buildup in Vietnam. He decided to become a minister, and he attended the Nazarene Theological Seminary in Kansas City, Missouri, and graduated from there in May 1971. While at seminary he was part of the reserve at Richards-Gebaur Air Force Base. He resigned his commission with the Air Force and began the process of becoming a chaplain in the Army in 1977 He served at Fort Carson, Colorado, and worked with the 308th Civil Affairs Brigade in West Germany. Sherman retired from the Army in 2000, and as of 2016 is national chaplain for the Reserve Officers Association. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Reed, Sherman Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Keizer, Herman Jr. (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/x-m4v application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/be0792d6ccd86148f59e698d818e4d26.mp4 1ac520563e841deee79e136e2fcb657f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/50005469f5061c4f24983ec62b808428.pdf f7cadef54093b6101d7e975136c77131 PDF Text Text GVSU Veteran’s History Project Korean War Dave Reeg Interview Total Time: 36:22               (00:28) Born in 1932; served as an artillery sergeant (00:40) Had 5 siblings (1:30) Had an older brother who served in World War II (1:45) Mr. Reeg got involved with the Korean War in 1952 o Had another brother who was in the Reserves, but didn’t go overseas (2:16) Remembers his father working in a coal yard and later worked into a factory (3:16) Before joining the army, Mr. Reeg worked at Union Steel (4:21) Trained in Camp Atterbury, Indiana o Trained for infantry o When he arrived, there was 110 people; not enough for infantry company (usually 200) o This is when he began training in artillery o Trained on 105 Howitzers o Was about 20 years old at the time (7:09) Mr. Reeg didn’t personally have any problems adjusting to military life, but knew of others who did (7:50) At the time, you signed up for 6 [3-4?] years in the service (8:19) There was a time when he got into a fight with someone in the mess hall o Was working in the mess hall at the time o Sergeant instructed how much he should give people who came to get food; there was someone who had a problem with it o Wasn’t punished for the fight o The guy he fought with was in his platoon (11:55) Remembers someone sitting in front of a bunker and a mortar round landed 50 yards away from him o Shrapnel hurt him; Mr. Reeg alerted the medics to help him o Remembers another guy who was hit in the hand by a piece of shrapnel (15:00) Knew most of the guys from the 1st Platoon (15:50) Tried to write a letter at least once a week o Got letters from his mother often (17:08) By the time the war ended, he had been in the service for about 17 months o Stayed in one area in Korea for this length o Heard about the ceasefire from the lieutenant �               (19:18) Discharged at a naval base in Chicago (19:47) Remembers his brother picking him up in Chicago (21:09) Remembers having a girlfriend that he wrote letters to while overseas o Ended up being his wife (21:23) To some degree it was hard to readjust to civilian life (23:02) One of the main things he learned about was rank – there was always someone one rank higher (23:57) Mr. Reeg was a sergeant (24:23) He was transferred at one point o There was a time where his unit was discontinued and they were sent to different artillery places o Ended up getting to use even bigger Howitzers o Said he didn’t know anything about these weapons (26:40) Said they never saw the enemy face to face (27:00) Talks about how bright the sky was when they fired; night looked like daylight o The bad part was that snipers could find them (27:28) The worst thing he ever saw was a mother and father carrying a small child who lost part of his leg (28:26) Heard about their own shells backfiring and hurting their guys o He never saw this happen but he heard about it before they got there (29:43) Remembers a 17 year old who joined the service and was in their bunker o The guy walked outside after a bomb was let off o Ended up being okay (33:22) Enrolled in school at CMU awhile after returning to the US; this was in 1955 o Was a teacher o Majored in physical education and a minor in health education as well as industrial arts (35:00) Said people he served with had different feelings about their experience – Mr. Reeg didn’t mind (35:45) Really enjoyed learning about industrial arts � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ReegD1412V Title A name given to the resource Reeg, Dave (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Reeg, Dave Description An account of the resource Dave Reeg served in the army as an artillery sergeant during the Korean War. He was trained on 105 Howitzers in Atterbury, Indiana. At one point in his service in Korea, the unit he was in was discontinued and he was sent to different artillery locations. Mr. Reeg was in Korea for about 17 months when the war ended. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Denton, Whitney (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-05-24 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fc8d6a7c4e9eec05a2803aaba6e3cd92.mp4 3b85a953a65a580373de3448d1b24a38 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c386ffdc7030e7c74b0aa3566b733e2e.pdf 53f0c43b0d251afe8142da025b10e283 PDF Text Text Reeves, Cody Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Interviewee’s Name: Cody Reeves Length of Interview: (46:46) Interviewed by: Koty Leroy Rollins Transcribed by: Maluhia Buhlman Interviewer: “Hello and welcome, I’m interviewing Cody Reeves of Kentwood, Michigan for the Grand Valley State Veterans History program. My name is Koty Leroy Rollins and let’s go ahead and get started. So we’re gonna start off with where were you born and what was your childhood like before you joined the military.” So I was born in Grand Rapids, local here and then I was raised in a small town just outside of Belding called Smyrna. My mother and I lived with my grandparents, my father wasn’t in the picture and it was a little bit of a broken home. I got along with my grandparents very well, I didn’t get along with my mother very well she was busy with college and work but overall I had a good childhood. (1:18) We weren’t below the poverty line or, you know, we didn't struggle or anything like that but I didn’t have many friends growing up until about high school when I started participating in sports and after school activities. From Smyrna we moved to Orleans when my mother got married to my step-father Aaron who was a Marine veteran himself and I think that’s partly what helped me choose the Marine Corps when I was determining my branch of service, cause I looked at all the options. I sat down with a recruiter from every branch and I saw what they all had to offer and the Marine recruiter was the only one that told me it was going to be difficult and at that point in my life I was trying to challenge myself to become better. I had just graduated high school with, I think, less than a 2.0 gpa, I didn’t even go– I didn’t even walk at graduation, no college would take me and my only option was a dead end job at this local grocery store, which it’s a great grocery store but there wasn’t much room for improvement there. So I joined the delayed entry program for the Marine Corps and it took me about a year before I could get to boot camp because I was so overweight and out of shape and there was also the ASVAB that we had to study for, they still do that testing. �Reeves, Cody Interviewer: “That’s the Armed Service Vocational Aptitude Battery, right?” Yes, yes that’s the test that will help determine which MOS best fits you, some jobs have certain score requirements based off of skills and abilities that you may have but the– During the delayed entry program I recruited out of Grand Rapids north and the north and the south both had their own recruiting station but we met every wednesday for what we called warrior training and it was a little bit of a precursor to boot camp. They– We started learning our knowledge about Marine Corps history and getting into physical shape, we called it PT which is just physical training and it was fun. Whoever was the most physically shaped for that day or could do the most pull ups for that session would be called the guide and they got to carry the flag for the run and then we always ran in teams of two. We would do exercises, team building workouts, competitions, we did all sorts of things, we ran 5k’s together like the river bank run, we did lots of things and it was two to three hours once a week and then we would do a Saturday once a month for like a fun event where we would do like frisbee golf or ice skating in the winter or whatever. (4:30) Interviewer: “Did they ever make it like extra difficult for you because you were out of shape or were they like understanding?” Well it wasn’t like they were extra difficult, it was more of they gave you the information that you needed and they helped you along the way but it was ultimately your drive and your motivation that got you where you wanted to be. They pushed you but you were never pushed so far that you would break but they have to push you because your mental state will stop before your physical body if your physical body ever stops so you need the push to actually get the improvements that they need but after about a year I’d lost like 60 pounds and I went from doing no pull ups to 23 pull ups and I went from doing like 40 sit ups to 120 sit ups and– Interviewer: “That is quite the improvement.” �Reeves, Cody And then I got to basic training and I was no longer– Like I thought I was in great shape but by the time you get to basic training you’re not in as great shape as you think you are. I had made so much progress but the standard for the Marine Corps physical fitness is pretty high. Interviewer: “Where did you go to basic training at?” I went to basic training in San Diego, California which was great because after I had finished basic training they changed the method that they use and I would have had to go to Parris Island if I enlisted any later. Interviewer: “Where’s Parris Island at?” That’s in South Carolina. Interviewer: “Yeah, California is definitely the better option.” (6:08) Oh it was way better but going into basic training I had to– I was still trying to cut weight cause I was still over the weight limit because I was so short that the weight limit was like 160 and any muscular guy will tell you it’s hard to maintain 160 at 5’6, you’ll almost always be over that but the Marine Corps has procedures like body weight percentage and that you can tape out but to get to basic training you had to actually make weight. So I was cutting weight and then it was the flight over there and then before you actually do your initial physical testing there’s three to four days of processing where they already start the psychological games by not letting you sleep and you’re just put in lines and you wait in line to go through dental, to go through health screening, physical check ups, they get you all the admin paperwork done, next of kin, you’ve got the SGLI, and then gear issue and the whole product– Because there’s so many people being processed it takes a couple days and kind of breaks you down which is what they’re going for, the whole goal of breaking someone down to build them back up to what you need them to be and you go into what’s called a holding platoon before you’re actually in the platoon that you’ll stick with through basic training and it was kind of funny. So when you’re in the holding platoon they’re not quite like drill instructors then, they still lead you around and they like– You get �Reeves, Cody everyone– The drill instructors get everyone dressed together and showered together quickly and efficiently but they’re not quite yelling at you or drilling you or they’re not– Cause you’re still in that processing state, but as soon as that’s over you do your initial test and then they call it black Friday when you actually meet your drill instructors and it was a pretty life changing moment for me. That was– Up until that moment I had only thought that okay this is gonna be hard but you know I can do this, and then black Friday came and my opinion changed and I was like this is terrifying, this is not what I knew, this is nothing like I expected and I had heard many storied and watched YouTube videos but once you’re actually there it’s quite different. It’s a lot of controlled chaos, looking back at it now if I had to go through it again it would be easy because I know all of the psychological games and I know the tricks and I know what they’re doing, but at the time just 18 year old Cody was terrified. Black Friday starts off with your senior drill instructor introducing the four sub drill instructors– Interviewer: “Okay, so you had five overall.” (9:12) You had five overall, or I had five overall it differs from platoon to platoon, each– So the senior drill instructor is in charge of all of them while as each drill instructor has a specific duty. There’s one drill instructor for actual drill, marching, there’s one for rifle marksmanship, there’s one for knowledge like studying history and passing the final test at basic training, and then there’s another one that doesn't actually talk and just goes around yelling and it’s great that actually serves a very good purpose. Interviewer: “So would he be like going around correcting people–” Yes, correcting people Interviewer: “Or is he just yelling at people for no reason?” Well no, no one’s ever yelled at for no reason, if you’re not doing anything wrong and a drill instructor is yelling at you it’s probably because he’s trying to stress you out during some sort of event or test because nothing in the military is ever done without stress. So they have to simulate �Reeves, Cody some sort of level of stress to know that your body can adapt and handle and there’s– It’s nothing– There’s nothing that’s ever too much or too far, it feels like a lot and it’s difficult but these are trained professionals. There’s a whole medical branch in– On the base, they have a hospital, there’s ambulances, there’s fire trucks, they have their own police department, their own fire department, and their own hospitals and there’s many professionals that go into creating this program that’s structured to create a Marine from a regular civilian and I enjoyed it. It was by far the most challenging thing I’ve done in my life up until this point. One thing I can remember was you always got enough sleep but it wasn’t like you got to– You didn’t get to choose when you slept but you got enough sleep, they were required to make you sleep for eight hours but that meant that everything was rushed. So– Blank, everyone in the platoon made their bed at the same time, in the same way, got in their bed the same time, the same way and went to sleep at the same time, it the same way. Interviewer: “Okay, so how long was your camp?” It was three months, I can’t remember exactly how many training days, I think it was 70 training days. (12:00) Interviewer: “Okay, and is this like broken down into segments like here’s your basic stuff, here’s where you focus on rifles?” Yes, it is broken down, there’s a really good calendar online that breaks it down day by day and it shows you the receiving period, the transition period, then it tells you when black Friday is and then there’s rifle week, swim week, drill week, knowledge week. There’s a bunch of different sections and there’s even a– There’s even the last week after you’ve passed basic training but haven’t finished basic training where you graduate from calling yourself, or referring to yourself as a recruit to now referring to yourself as a Marine and it’s one of the most satisfying feelings that I can remember because just as recruits you weren’t allowed to walk around by your own but once you were in that last final week you could go in pairs to the store or the barber shop, you know just in pairs and if you went by any drill instructors instead of calling them a drill instructor you would call them by their rank or instead of calling them sir you would call them �Reeves, Cody by their rank and they would refer to you by your rank and name or no longer as a recruit, as a Marine and that was like the first moment that I had a sense of pride in what I had accomplished and at that moment I hadn’t realized what I would go on to do later but I was still happy that I had made it. There was a few times where it got rough and this was the first moment that I had ever been away from my family so it was a little more difficult than I thought. We always had Sundays off, if you didn’t do anything on Sunday then you had to stay in the platoon– Or stay with the platoon like studying or you know working out or doing something like that but it was free time, it was just structured free time you know they still wanted you to be constructive. Interviewer: “That little bit of freedom makes it even more strict once you get to it but it makes you more accepting of that strictness right?” Yeah, I went to church every Sunday even though I wasn’t religious it was just nice to go and it was actually really interesting. The way that church is set up is you would– So a whole platoon of 80 people would sign up for whatever their religion was and then you would write your name down and then you would all go together and you’d have to march there in a group of the rest of the people with the same religion and then we were given directions to the church and people would be watching us as we went there but once we got there it was like a whole different environment. (15:18) People were singing and cheering and there was just this overall sense of a really strong bond between everyone, and I didn’t know any of these people they were just all strangers that were doing the same program that I was doing and that alone through hardship was enough to create a bond between us and a lot of people cried, a lot of grown men cried. Interviewer: “Hey, nothing wrong with that.” It was powerful. Interviewer: “Now I know with Navy boot camp there’s lots of different denominations of churches. Was it just like you know the big religions like Christianity and Judaism and Islam, or was there also like smaller religions like Hindusim and Confucianism there?” �Reeves, Cody They covered any religion. Interviewer: “Okay.” If your religion wasn’t covered then there was like a fall-to church you could go to where they would let you do self practice on your own in a room. Interviewer: “Okay so like a non-denominational one.” Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, that’s really interesting. So once you got out of boot camp what did you do after that?” So the first step after boot camp is to go to Marine– It’s called MCT which is Marine combat training and there’s two different ways that the MCT follows on school goes. (16:37) You’re either an infantry MOS or you’re a non infantry MOS. Interviewer: “What does MOS stand for?” Military occupation school, so the Marine combat school is the precursor before MOS school and if you’re a non infantry MOS your MCT is 30 to 45 days and then you actually go to your job schooling, whereas if you’re an infantry MOS your MCT includes your combat– Includes your MOS school and it’s right there in the same place so because I was a radio operator I didn’t have– I had a non infantry MOS, my MCT was about a month long, it was in Camp Pendleton and that was when they really focused on the combat aspect of the Marine Corps and that was where we learned the strategies for war fighting and how to properly maintain and fire a multitude of different weapon systems. I learned how to shoot the M-4, M-16 variants as well as the Mark 240 Bravo machine gun, the 50 caliber machine gun, Mark-19 grenade launchers and that was as much as I got to train on. If you had an infantry MOS you would go even more detailed in those training and then they go on to do a few other weapon systems as well. �Reeves, Cody Interviewer: “Okay, and did you go there with your platoon from boot camp or were you sent there individually?” So you’re sent there individually but you end up seeing a lot of the people that you were in basic training with, some people are actually lucky enough to go through basic training, MCT, and MOS school all together and then hit the fleet and get their first duty stationed together. It’s rare but it does happen. Interviewer: “Okay, so after your combat training– Well during your combat training was there any interesting things that happened, like did they make you simulate like being in a week long battle or anything like that?” We did– We did lots of drills with blank rounds and we did lots of practicing in the field but there were no– There was no actual week long field experiences. (19:00) Interviewer: “So no like simulations or anything.” No, going back to basic training though there was a three day long crucible where we were in the field for three days with only one meal that you had to ration out and you had to carry your own– All your own supplies and you had to travel between location, location and that was sort of the culmination of all the events where all knowledge was tested and the final hike on the last day after barely sleeping and barely eating and doing all this training and team exercises and tests and after finishing all that because we were in San Diego there’s this pretty monumental location at the top of a hill that you hike to and that’s when you receive your eagle globe and anchor and it was a pretty emotional time for a lot of people there too. Interviewer: “So that’s where you officially earn the title Marine.” That’s when you officially earn the title. �Reeves, Cody Interviewer: “Okay, so after that you had your combat training and where was your MOS school at?” So my MOS school was in 29 Palms, California and that’s where all communication schooling is, 29 Palms is also the home to Camp Wilson which is where they do ITX which is integrated training and that’s when you– That’s where all pre-deployment units go. Interviewer: “Okay, what was your MOS school like, was it as strict as boot camp?” I would say MOS school was less strict than boot camp but more strict than MCT. We still had to march everywhere, you weren’t allowed– You were considered a student status now so you couldn’t have a vehicle, you couldn't drink, you weren’t allowed to like wear civilian clothing yet, you know classes were every day Monday through Friday, all day from eight to five with 15 minute breaks between classes, you were required like some sort of max set of pull ups between classes or something to keep you in shape between classes because there was no– (21:25) There wasn’t as much physical training in MOS school so to stay in shape we always did something, whether it was a morning run or some fun activity after classes before studying or just like little workouts between classes, the desert heat was rough. Interviewer: “I’ll bet, so that’s in Northern California then?” No, that's Southern California. Interviewer: “Okay, oh yeah deserts are in the south. So nothing really eventful happened in your MOS school?” Nothing eventful, I just remember that the material was hard to learn it was the equivalent to taking a college exam every week for about a month, month and a half straight. Every week was a subject they called them annexes, annexes A through F and the annex would be a radio system that we’d have to learn to include every detail of how to operate, troubleshoot, fix, and maintain �Reeves, Cody and the amount of knowledge was about a semester’s worth of information stuffed into a week and then tested. Interviewer: “Okay, that’s pretty intense.” The failure rate was not super high but that’s because if you didn’t pass you just got sent back a week and got picked up with a different platoon to try again. Interviewer: “Was there like a limit to how many times you could be sent back before they just like sent you somewhere else?” I’m sure there was a limit but when I went through they were trying to get people so they would send you through as many times as you need. Interviewer: “Okay, and so it was about six weeks, you said for annex.” (23:10) I’d say it was 45 training days. Interviewer: “Okay, after that where’d you go?” So the last week of MOS school you get your first orders and my first duty station was Camp Lejeune and I got sent to 8th Regiment which is one of the highest companies you can be sent to, I was at the H&S company for the whole regiment. Interviewer: “What does H&S stand for?” Headquarters and support company, and then I spent my first couple months at 8th Reg training just for whatever. At that point there’s really no expectations it’s just kind of like a day job, you show up in the morning, run with your platoon, with– And then we were all radio operators because it was broken down by section. So all the radio operators would show up in the morning at 6:00 a.m, we’d run together, we’d go get breakfast, we’d be to work by nine, we’d work until �Reeves, Cody noon, we’d eat until one, then we’d work again until four and go home and then you were free until the next day and then after a couple months 8th Reg sent me to 1st Battalion 8th Marines. They were preparing for a deployment to Romania for Black Sea rotational– B surf, the Black Sea rotational force. Interviewer: “And what year was this?” This was 2015, about mid 2015, the work– They call them work ups before deployment, you do about six to nine months of training for the nine month deployment and I arrived at 1-8 about a month or two into their training, which was fine because I had been training so hard on my own that I was already at their level, and then I trained with them for the rest of their three to four months before deployment and then we went to Romania about early 2016 and we were there for about eight months. Interviewer: “Okay, so were you in Romania or were you like on a ship near Romania?” (25:26) We were actually stationed in Romania at an old Army air base, it’s called MK it was a really nice base I have a lot of good memories there. Deployment life is a little bit different than fleet life, we were eight to room with four bunk beds and four lockers, with shared showers and shared bathrooms but it was– Again that was a lot like a day job where you would PT in the morning with your section, work until– Work from nine to five or nine to four and then go home but when you were done with work you were still confined to the base until a certain time that they would let you go out in town and that was fun, seeing different cultures is great. I got to do a lot of volunteering at an orphanage nearby, it was more of a foster home there two parents took care of about 18 kids in varying ages from newborns to 17 year old kids and we did a lot of volunteering with them just spending time with the kids or painting building or played a lot of sports with them, was a pretty good experience. Interviewer: “So the locals were pretty happy to have you then?” �Reeves, Cody Yes, they were. Interviewer: “I know this was during kind of a tense period between America and Russia.” Yes this was when everyone was sort of concerned with what Russia was doing and we were there to deter Russian aggression and I guess we succeeded because nothing ever happened. Interviewer: “That’s a good way to look at it and yeah I know a lot of places aren’t too happy to have Americans there but it sounds like the Romanians were pretty happy cause– ” Yeah, yeah they definitely wanted us there they were glad, we did a lot of training with like the Romanian military as well. Interviewer: “Was that difficult due to language barriers or anything or did they speak–” (27:40) A lot of them knew English, so I would say it wasn’t that difficult. Interviewer: “Okay, did you guys have like a Romanian linguist or anything?” Yes, we did, we had a Russian linguist and a Romanian linguist. Interviewer: “Okay, so did anything eventful happen in that deployment other than working at the orphanage?” Nothing, nothing that I can say. Interviewer: “Fair enough, and afterwards you went back to the states?” �Reeves, Cody So yes, coming home from deployment was– It was an emotional time coming home, everyone waits for you and then you come in on buses and you have to go to the armory first to drop weapons off. So you drive by everyone waiting for you and there’s like a huge party that’s got a gazebo set up with tables and food and they got a bouncy house for kids and there’s hundreds of parents here and yeah from there I went back to 8th Reg because I was only temporary with 1-8 but I was only with 8th Reg for another couple months before I got sent to 2nd Battalion 6th Marines. Interviewer: “And this was in 2016 right?” This was in– Yeah this would’ve been the middle of 2017, early to middle 2017. Interviewer: “Okay, and what did you do there?” So at 2-6 it was the same thing I did at 1-8 except now I was two– You know two and a half years of experience with the deployment as an E3. (29:30) So I was already, you know top of the game there were not many other people that already had one deployment overseas with two years experience and got the type of training and experience that I did because when we were in Romania we were always working and challenging ourselves to do better and we were talking to Germany and we were talking to Turkey and I got really good at what I did. Interviewer: “Yeah, so we were working real close with all of our ally countries over there essentially.” Yes, and we also worked with the Army. Interviewer: “Okay, did you have any Navy support out in the Black Sea or is that sort of– ” Yes, so we as a Marine Corps we take Navy with us wherever we go but there’s also Army medical on the base but the Navy corpsmen that we take with our platoon they carry all the �Reeves, Cody medical supplies that we need for a company or a platoon or whatever but going back to return from deployment into six, when I got to 2-6 H&S company I knew by this point that I wanted to be with the infantry and I requested that and they told me which infantry companies had platoons that needed radio operators and because I was the most experienced radio operator in the company I got to choose where I wanted to go. I chose to go to weapons company, CAT platoon which is the combined anti-armor team for the weapons company. The weapons company is the company that has like the heavy gun support for the line companies which is the ground troops. So we rolled around in humvees and gun turrets, I won’t get into specifically the strategics of how our CAT platoon worked but we were in humvees and it was convenient but it was also a curse. We had to sleep in the vehicles and you had to maintain the vehicles and they broke down so much and carrying around ten guns that large not any fun. Interviewer: “Where was this at?” So this was in– This was still in Camp Lejeune and I got– I went to them just before they were doing a work up for the 26th MEU so that work up was a little bit different and I hit that company a little bit later. (31:54) So they were about– They were over halfway done with their training but I had just, you know recently came off a deployment and was still pretty knowledgeable.So I wasn’t really worried the only thing I had to learn was how to apply this new knowledge and experience I had to a mobile, you know vehicle based unit that they were which wasn’t too hard. The jump in responsibility was crazy, I went from being just one of many R.O in a section to being the only radio operator in charge of the whole platoon and that meant signing off for a lot of gear, handling my own crypto, doing all my own programming, and I also had to teach everyone in the platoon how to use the gear because we were in vehicles, we would split up. I’m only in one vehicle I can’t see and operate all, you know 24 radios that we had not to mention all of the personal radios that the important people carried and so I had to do a lot of teaching and explaining and– Interviewer: “Oh, sorry–” Go ahead. �Reeves, Cody Interviewer: “I’m assuming these were not just like walkie talkie shortwave radios right.” Oh no, these were complicated encrypted brick radios, they were old school but it was complicated enough to where it was secure. That– It was the precise complication of crypto that made them so difficult to operate, just the radio itself isn’t that hard to operate but once you start encrypting and you know securing the net then it becomes– There’s many factors that you have to troubleshoot. Interviewer: “Okay, and you were in charge of all of that.” Yes. Interviewer: “So that’s a lot of pressure for, what were you 20 at this time?” I was 21. (33:50) Yes, so I went from not being in charge of anything, just operating and doing my job to actually being responsible for millions of dollars worth of gear and I maintained a secret clearance working under the NSA, getting crypto from them and putting it in the radios and doing all the proper procedures there. Interviewer: “So that was probably a pretty work intensive part of your life huh?” Yeah, it was the most stressful job I’ve ever had. Interviewer: “Did you ever deploy with that unit?” Yes, so we deployed on the 26th MEU and– So the 26th MEU was, that’s like– I’m trying to think of how to put this. So the way the MEU works is there’s three ships that travel around the ocean and it’s pretty classified but what I can say is that it’s a force in readiness. The MEU is just, they don’t have a purpose beyond the purpose of just being ready for whatever the world needs, �Reeves, Cody Interviewer: “So it’s a reactionary force.” It is a reactionary force, you know the Marines live by the fact that we can be anywhere the United States needs in 24 hours, anywhere in the world and that’s because we have like a MEU which is the Marine Expeditionary Unit that’s always out somewhere doing something, and that’s mainly just training. We got to stop in Italy for training, Greece for training, Jordan for training. Interviewer: “Did you ever get to spend any time in these wonderful locations or were they just sort of taunting you?” Oh yeah, we did lots of, we called them liberty calls, where you get to come off the ship and just do whatever you want in town as long as you’re back by the right time and don’t break any laws. That’s when the language barriers really did get a bit rough but it’s not that bad, it can be overcome. (35:50) Interviewer: “So how long were you with the MEU?” That was a nine month deployment. Interviewer: “Okay, and then you went back to Camp Lejeune?” Yes. Interviewer: “Alright, what happened then?” After that deployment I started doing my transition to like the civilian world, went through TRS, started like turning in my gear and getting the paperwork ready to actually leave the Marine Corps. �Reeves, Cody Interviewer: “What’s TRS?” TRS is the transitionary readiness seminar. Interviewer: “Okay, do you feel like they actually got you ready to be a civilian?” I feel like it is a step in the right direction, they never used to have these programs and now they do and they’re helpful yeah but I feel like me personally didn’t learn much because I was taught in high school how to do resumes and a lot of what they taught us I had already knew but you know everything can be improved and they are– They’re working on it. Interviewer: “So after that you just transitioned out and came back to Grand Rapids?” Mhmm, then I signed up for Grand Valley and pursuing a degree in Psychology. Interviewer: “Okay, and what are you gonna do with that?” (37:07) Well I’m interested in taking my psychology degree and joining the National Guard to do some sort of behavioral health science as I work towards a master’s in psychology. Interviewer: “Okay, so you want to go back as like an officer then?” Yes. Interviewer: “Alright, why the National Guard and not the Marines?” The National Guard officer offers programs that I can do while in college locally and– Interviewer: “Marines just don’t have these programs?” �Reeves, Cody Well they have the programs but like the specific program that I’m looking for is– National Guard they’re the only ones that offer a specific officer commissioning program while still in college. There are many programs in every branch and specifically for what I wanted to do I’m thinking the National Guard is the best fit. Interviewer: “Okay, and are you gonna try and retire out of there?” Yes I would like to retire out of– I don’t know if I’m gonna retire out of the National Guard, once I commission as an officer I can transition to any branch, it’s just the program to commission as an officer when I graduate is only offered by the National Guard. Otherwise I’d have to get my degree and then go to officer candidate school and I don’t really want to do that. I’ve already been to basic training and all these other schools, going back again and being the lowest man on the totem pole and working my way back up just isn't required. They have these programs where once I get 90 credits I can start doing an officer candidate school part time for 18 months and then I’ll graduate as an officer with a degree and then I can commission full time into the National Guard, the Army, the Navy, wherever I want to go as long as I, you know fit their requirements. Interviewer: “Okay, yeah maybe we can do this interview again in about 20 years.” (39:10) Maybe. Interviewer: “So I’m just gonna go over a few more things.” Okay. Interviewer: “Now that we’ve got pretty much the timeline set up, can you tell up a little more about your job or is that too–” No, I can do that. So as a radio operator you’re in charge of maintaining, operating, and like taking care of radio gear. There’s many different radio systems, the different radio systems have �Reeves, Cody different jobs and that’s based off of the radio frequencies. There’s a couple different radio frequency bands, there’s high frequency, very high frequency and ultra high frequency and these frequency bands overlap a little bit but typically once you get into a different frequency band you’re going to need a different radio system. So the trucks work– The trucks had vehicle mounted systems that sat in the front seat in the middle between the driver and the passenger and it was two radio systems side by side. They were powered by the vehicle so they had a high amount of wattage and that produced a stronger signal and my job was doing– To do the programming, to get the vehicles talking to each other and then talking to whoever we’re working with and then I had to have radios for each individual person that wanted one and those were on different channels and different frequencies with a different encryption so that they could talk amongst each other but it wouldn’t interfere with anything that was coming on the radio and the vehicles and then like if we’re a hundred miles away from the ship a very high frequency radio system’s not going to reach that high whereas a high frequency radio could so you’d have to have a different portable radio system that you could pull out of the truck, set up and talk back to the ship, you know once and while and then pack it back up, get back in, and leave. So on top of being able to operate these radios I had to teach everyone else to operate the radios I had to teach everyone else how to maintain the radios, they broke a lot so we did lots of preventative maintenance, cleaning, troubleshooting, and many classes of just sitting down and like trying to teach them what I learned in a couple months. (41:55) Interviewer: “Okay, I bet that was pretty stressful cause these were just general infantry Marines that you were teaching to do this.” They were all infantry MOS’s yes, they varied from machine gunners to riflemen to missile men, they all learned very well it’s just it’s not material that they were used to seeing and it wasn’t their job so it’s hard sometimes to make someone passionate about something that they don’t understand and that they don’t see a use for. A lot of them see their job as being a sole operation which means the infantry can operate on their own, when in reality the infantry is supported by the rest of the Marine Corps. �Reeves, Cody Interviewer: “Yeah, did you ever have any like issues, like confrontations with them or any of the officers with them or anything?” I didn’t personally have any confrontations but I mean there was always drama that’s just natural to life and society, there’s gonna be drama. Nothing that was so bad we couldn’t overcome it. Interviewer: “Okay, and I know with the Marines they kind of hammer in the whole one single cohesive unit.” Yes. Interviewer: “You guys are like an interlocked family almost.” Yeah, and I’d say overall that was pretty true, everyone maintained a pretty close bond, we all knew everyone very well, first name basis. I knew everyone’s hobbies, what they like to do, what they didn’t like, I knew where they were from, I knew their families, their sisters, their brothers. I was really good friends with their girlfriends, their wives, we were all really close we all worked together as a team and supported each other. (43:55) Interviewer: “Okay, that’s good. Was it hard to be away from your family?” So when you’re deployed to a base it’s easy to get on wifi or and get on facebook or make a phone call or video chat or whatever, it would be no more difficult than being away from your family back in Michigan you know. I may not be able to actually go see them but I can pick up the phone and call them whenever I want. It’s a little bit different when you’re on ship, the internet's shaky at best, we go in a lot of different security settings where the ship’s not allowed to talk at all, no incoming or outcoming traffic, you go weeks without being able to communicate with anyone other than on the ship and it’s hard sometimes but other times it just goes by so quickly, that you’re so busy you don’t realize you haven’t talked to your parents in months. �Reeves, Cody Interviewer: “Yeah, especially on the ship where you don’t even get any off days right, you’re just kind of going, going, going.” Yeah, I mean you get off days but like even your off days are still, like you’re still on ship and you still have to contribute to ship life. Interviewer: “Yeah, how bad was the food on the ship?” It was terrible, they tried their best to make good food and sometimes they did, sometimes we would stop in Italy and they could pick up some steaks or lobsters and it was great, but for the most part it was just pretty standard– I mean it wasn’t terrible or inedible but it’s not a five star meal. Interviewer: “It’s about as good as you can get with powdered eggs.” Yes. Interviewer: “Did you have any issues with the Navy while you were on there?” (45:45) I personally didn’t have any issues with the Navy, I enjoyed the Navy I made a lot of friends, there were issues between the Marines and the Navy just because of different culture and just the way that we were brought up I guess the differences, but we didn’t have any huge issues. Interviewer: “Okay, alright was there anything else you wanted to talk about?” Not that I can think of. Interviewer: “Alright, so you got out in 2018 right?” Yeah I got out in November of 2018. �Reeves, Cody Interviewer: “And I can tell you’ve been going to Grand Valley State so that’s good. One last question that we always try to ask everybody, knowing what you know now would you do it again?” Yes. Interviewer: “Just in a heartbeat, yes?” Oh yeah. Interviewer: “Alright, well that’s good to know maybe we’ll sit down and talk again some other time but looks like that’s it for us today.” Thank you. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ReevesC2296V Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Reeves, Cody Michael Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-02 Title A name given to the resource Reeves, Cody (Interview transcript and video), 2019 Description An account of the resource Cody Reeves was born in Grand Rapids and was raised in Smyrna, Michigan, by his mother while living with his grandparents. When he and his mother moved to Orleans and she married his stepfather, a Marine veteran, Reeves was greatly influenced to join the Corps. Since he never earned sufficient grades in high school, no college was willing to admit him, so he opted to join the Marine Delayed Entry Program as a way to challenge himself towards improvement. For Basic Training, Reeves was sent to San Diego, California. He spent three months in Basic Training before graduating onto Marine Combat Training at Camp Pendleton and then Non-infantry Military Occupational School in Twentynine Palms, California, through which he became a radio operator. After graduating from MOS, Reeves was sent to Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, with the Headquarters and Support Company, 8th Marine Regiment where he trained for later assignment. He was then transferred to the 1st Battalion, 8th Marine Division in preparation for deployment and stationing in Romania in 2015 to deter Russian aggression in the region. In Romania, his unit was stationed at an old Army Air Base and lived a very routine life of exercise, work, and leisure. He also recalled friendly relations with both the Romanian military and civilian population. After his tour in Romania, Reeves was transferred into the 2nd Battalion, 6th Marine Division in 2017 and was sent back to Eastern Europe. He then began close work with American military allies before opting to join the infantry platoons as a radio operator, assigned to the Weapons Company of the Combined Anti-Armor Team out of Camp Lejeune. As a member of the greater Marine Expeditionary Unit, he and his platoon were deployed, without objective, aboard ships traveling around the world. After this tour, Reeves left the service in November of 2018 and began transitioning back into civilian life, although he found the Corps’ assistance relatively basic and lackluster. He then moved back to Grand Rapids where he enrolled into Grand Valley State University and pursued a degree in psychology. Reflecting upon his service in the Corps, Reeves believed he formed close bonds to the men in his units and that the internet and cell phones made communicating with home far easier. Ultimately, if he were given the option to enlist again, Reeves would do so in a heartbeat. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Leroy-Rollins, Koty (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States—History, Military Veterans Video recordings Iraq War, 2003-2011—Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/18fbbbd7232c91d6924882a30c9c81fb.mp4 afeb7a102f2c9f3e6249ecc6de7d695a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f756d30fad10062e6865ef8da78290c1.pdf 6d641f585b180b5b30074dc70b6a3713 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project John Reeves (02:24:23) (01:01)Lawrence Michigan • John grew up on a 50 acre farm • Born March 18 1924 • Went to school in a one room school house until second grade • Went to Lawrence Public Schools thru 4th grade • Went to Paw Paw Public Schools • Graduated in June 1942 • Heard about Pearl Harbor on radio between the orchestral programs and had to tell his parents what was going on • (4:05)John was 17 when Pearl Harbor was attacked • John had a fascination with airplanes since he was in 5th grade. He use to build model airplanes as a child • Started teaching flying for a man who owned an airplane and gave rides to kids. John had previously flown in the man’s airplane. • (6:13)John says he was not a very good swimmer so he chose the Army Air Corps over the Navy Air Corps (06:55)Joined Army Air Corps • John had to pass a physical and IQ test upon entry • He was put into the Enlisted Reserves to be called up at any time • Was able to pursue college until called up (07:20)Michigan Tech • Enrolled on a scholarship • Started in September for one semester • Joined ROTC • February 1943, was called up to duty • Had to report to Chicago and took a train to Cincinnati, Ohio, and then off to Florida (08:40) Miami Beach Florida • They were put up in a hotel for the night • Basic training was for months on army cots in bunkers • Learned march, formation, weapons training • Shot 1903 model Springfield rifles at sand dunes • (10:30) John says that there was a mixture of southern and northern boys on base which caused some personality conflicts. He said they would go rounds about the civil war. The northerners said it lasted a few months and the southerners said it still wasn’t over. • Cultures were all mixed except for there were not any blacks mixed in yet • John believes that everyone passed basic training which lasted for 6-8 weeks �• • Upon graduation they took a battery of aptitude and IQ tests for placement Most of the men were assuming they would be pilots (15:00)Rowley, North Carolina • North Carolina Tech School • Formed a band and had Sunday parades which a General would attend once in awhile • After 2-4 months depending on test results they went to a classification center (17:02)Nashville, Tennessee-Classification center • Divided into pilot, navigator, and bombardier • Some were sent to radio school or gunnery school if they couldn’t make it into the first three categories • John explains some hand eye coordination exercises • John experiences for the first time some apprehension of whether he would make it into flight school • John made it to flight school as a pilot and was asked what he wanted to fly. He says a B-24 • In high school John had shop class where he learned all the different planes and Morse Code (21:54)Montgomery, Alabama--Maxwell Field • Cadet training school-two month course, one month lower classmen, one month upper classmen classes • The group was intentionally broken up at this point into four groups and sent in different directions • They were shown barracks, received clothes and shown field for training exercises • Suited up in class B uniforms and told to fall out • Eight men in a room with double decker bunks with a bathroom in the middle • (24:50)Honor system--this was stressed here and nobody could cheat or they could be kicked out of the school • John remembers one incident where all 20,000 cadets were lined up and one man’s name was called out and told he cheated and was immediately discharged from the cadet school and sent to another part of the military • Loud speakers on base kept the guys updated on news of the war. Even movie theatres ran air bulletins from the military on news of the war • Maxwell field was a B-24 transition base-they were constantly taking off and landing on base • They had Saturday night off and parts of Sunday to go into town for free time • Disappointing food on base but had waitresses waiting on them • Rigorous training course called the Burma Road. This was during July and August with 105 degree temperatures • (29:20)Classroom training-aircraft recognition, they had fans in the room but windows were shut and covered. They were to recognize silhouettes of airplanes and six digit numbers that went along with the plane. They were also tested on Morse Code and expected to get up to 13 words a minute �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Meteorologist and aircraft classes were given. Also Officer training was given at the same time (32:00)They were continuously being tested. Every so often someone would come up missing and presumed to be washed out They were here for two months before sent off to flight school They had postings on where you were going and what you were going to do (33:06)McBride, Missouri-flight school Eastern flying training command-there was three total training commands. Central and Western were the other two. Everything they owned went into a barracks bag as they traveled from base to base The primary bases were civilian operated They got Steerman P-17 planes The commandant on base clarified to the new men that they were not invited and that they could leave at anytime and he would do his best to make sure they wanted to leave (38:20)Food was better here. They had ladies from town waiting on the guys and a PX to get goodies from Their first instruction was acclimatizing themselves to day to day operation. They had classroom time, walk around time by the planes and would be assigned a pilot teacher, they were assigned parachutes etc. They trained in a Gosport II--there was no radio communication in the plane. They had a tube coming from the pilot back to the cadet telling him instructions but not vice versa. They learned the basics to acquired a pilot’s license Sentiments (41:26)The theme from Gone with the Wind used to play over PA systems back at college detainment center. It holds a strong place in John’s memory and he says it was a long time later that he seen Gone with the Wind that he realized the song came from that movie. (42:08)Primary flight training-arrived in October. Around Christmas time they would sing White Christmas because their group was named B-white so they would emphasize in the song where it would say ‘Be white.’ If the guys went solo they would have to go jump in the pit filled with cold water and then buy a cigar and smoke it. John got sick off of smoking the cigar. McBride Flight School Once you went solo you went thru maneuvers such as spins, stalls, aerobatics, rolls, snap routes, Ruben eights. They would do falling leaf where you would cut engine and fall side to side. John says the ground comes up fairly fast so you had to watch that. (44:50)They also did spot landings because they were going to have to land on some areas on land, not on ships John was in a plane doing spot landings and they almost crashed with another plane. John was the only one who saw it and he thrust their plane down under the other one. Even the pilot was surprised by this because he didn’t even see them. There was a ‘See and Be Seen’ training where you are always suppose to be looking around to see what is around you �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • (47:35)Started on basic instrument link training for about 2 hours (47:40)Basic training flight school starts Trained with a Vultee B-13, a low wing airplane with fixed landing gear and a 450 hp 2 speed propeller on it with a flat pitch and a high pitch. One is more powerful for takeoff when you’re slow, the other for cruise. It was a tandem airplane with a canopy on top They learned to fly planes at edge of their capacity at different altitudes and speeds Received night time flight training and cross country navigation Learned instruments and instrument recovery They received flight checks every 15-20 hours Received 60-65 hours at these bases They had no casualties at flight school that John remembers. He says that is quite unusual but people were dropping out more and more here Barracks were tar paper shacks with stoves in the center of them. They had showers in the central area. (53:25)Advanced flight training--Stuttgart Arkansas John asked to go to single engine school--ends up going to twin engine school in Arkansas John says they had bigger tar paper shacks here Everything was set up to be very temporary bases They were here for 2 months-graduation was on April 15 Now they had an Beechcraft airplane made of plywood with retractable gear, 2 speed props, a full instrument panel, an autopilot, and 220hp engines. He learned to fly twin engine aircraft in tight formations, and to use a lot of instruments, and learned radio procedures and radio navigation Once solo they would swap between pilot and co-pilot, wasting no time here sitting still (56:37)John says they didn’t have much time to think about the war although they were hearing about it and planes would drop in that needed looked at. One had an engine out and was flown by a female pilot. (58:15) Received their wings in a public ceremony--many families could not make it for financial reasons. One guy whose family did make it didn’t get his wings and stayed in the barracks. Upon receiving their wings they got two weeks off for leave One guy on base bought a car and he, John, and another fellow drove home. They got as far as Illinois and ran out of gas. They were also out of ration cards so they stopped at a gas station and told them who they were and they were trying to get home so the guy gave him 4 gallons of gas and that got them back to Chicago so they could get home. (1:01:14)John arrives home--everybody hugging and crying. Spent most of the two weeks seeing relatives that he hadn’t seen in years but made time to sneak away to see his girlfriend and his friends who couldn’t get into the military Nobody talked about the fear of him dying, and at that age, John was invincible. After two weeks he took a train to Chicago and then on to Nashville. He had received a radio by now so he brought that with him John had a parachute bag for clothing and a B24 bag for suits �• Had to find a bus in Nashville that would take him back to the base. There was no instruction on your daily activities you were on your own and it was up to you to get you where you needed to be • (1:03:50)Report to your superior, go through exit and entrance physical, head to mess hall, get a haircut if needed. Report to flight line, meet instructors, start ground school and introduction to B-24’s. • B-24’s have 4 engines of 1200hp, tricycle landing gear, and are physically hard to fly • They were put in groups of students and most paired up, usually 2-4 students on board and they would take turns being pilot with the instructor being co-pilot while the other student watched • The planes had no turrets on the nose, they had returned from service in Africa and returned for training students • 87 octane gas [well below octane levels for regular aviation fuel] meant that they could only pull ¾ power off of the engine, created hazardous conditions while taking off • John got through B24 training in 6 weeks instead of 2 months • (1:08:00)John was offered to head off to California • • • • • • • • Lamoure, California Assignments of crews were made here This included the navigator, bombardier, engineer/gunner, radio operator, radial gunner, tail gunner (1:10:00)Each group of 10 heads out to a training base There were four bases, Riverside, California, Muroc (Edwards Air force Base), Tonopah, Nevada, and Walla Walla, Washington which moved to Blythe, California during the winter time At this point nobody knew where they were going John was at Riverside Night flight practices here. On one of these they had an engine catch fire on takeoff (1:14:08)John receives word in late July early August that they are going to Hamilton Field, San Francisco before heading overseas to the Pacific • • • • (1:16:12)Hamilton Field San Francisco They were here majority of September waiting for orders to go overseas. They were trying to get flying in so they could get flight pay Issue gear to take overseas, issued B10 winter flight jackets Received orders to go to New Guinea. They didn’t get to fly their own aircraft; they headed over on a C54 transport. Stopped in Hawaii and landed on Canton Island (1:18:37)Beginning of October finally arrived at Guadalcanal They left the C54 at this point Boarded a C47 plane for Nadzab, New Guinea • • (1:19:40)Nadzab, New Guinea Reassignment center 16 sq ft tents • • • �• • Ate in a mess hall with their own mess kits. John says it was getting pretty primitive at this point Almost everyone there was new to the area getting their first reassignment Received After a few weeks there they picked up new aircraft down in Townsville Australia and they had to fly it back. The aircraft had already had problems known to the men before they had to fly it. It began having problems immediately upon take off. (1:22:55)Flew the plane to Nomefor base in New Guinea. One squadron was still there waiting to move on to Morotai Delivered the plane to Morotai Received new orders assigned to 371st bomb squadron • • • • • 371st squadron Arrived right at the end of the oil bombings Took squadron to the Sulu Sea and lost 47% of their squadron (1:24:23)They were getting air raids every night at this point Reassigned to 858th snooper group back at Nomefor for radar training Sent back to Morotai to the 424th squadron • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • (1:25:25)424th squadron Received first mission over Central Philippines- bombing raids-they flew with a experienced pilot and they were co-pilot Flew out in a formation every third day They went from co-pilot to left seat to flying by themselves There were 24 B24’s in each group. Seven would go out on serious raids. 13 to a squadron so they would send six and have a spare ready while they worked on the others Had fighter escorts in the Central Philippines. Engagements with Japanese planes were fewer than what you would think. They found out there was a Japanese lookout on one of the mountains. When the B37’s didn’t go out they had more engagements than if they did or even if they had to turn back. John completed 16 missions here. (1:30:35)After 1000 hours of flying the bombers would be retired. They wanted to get assignments called Shipping Searches to break the routine they were in. Two aircraft would take off early in the morning at low altitudes looking for shipping One of these shipping searches they were going out to photograph ships on route to Central Celebes they hit 90 knot head waves, got to Makassar Straits and radar picked up 7 ships in formation, unusual to see Japanese ships in formation around this area so they found a break in the clouds dropped down to 4000 ft and seen it was an auxiliary cruiser heavily armed and they began shooting at them. They dropped 3 delayed fuse bombs on the biggest ship and had to come back, and the second plane didn’t follow instructions and didn’t bomb. They had to get to the assignment they had and tried to contact submarines no one answered, couldn’t get communications back to the main base. As they headed over the air field they surprised them. 4 fighters came out after them but they hid in the clouds and never saw them again �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • (1:36:00)They were the first group to go up into the fields of Manila Bay where they got no fighter escort because it was 900 miles one way. Bombed Corregidor, Grace Park and others. They met anti-aircraft fire only a few times, but when they did it was fierce. (1:38:10) They were actively involved in the capture of the Philippines. One reason they captured Morotai was to actively be able to reach islands in the Pacific. There were also major oil facilities in Borneo and to take this field meant depriving them of fuel They did initial softening up of the islands to suppress what was there to protect the flank-the Philippines John was aware of the bigger picture that they were involved in (1:42:05)Australian foreign controller-he is the farthest forward in the line and instructs everyone else on where to go and what to hit Protocol before a briefing-they would gather in a briefing room the night before a mission, told where they were going, what the bomb load was going to be, how much ammo, whether they had a escort or not, the weather, take off time, then they separated for individual briefings, they went to bed and woke up at 3:00 a.m. and ate, boarded a 6x6 truck headed to flight lines (still dark), checked airplane and talked to ground crew and boarded plane. They had a sequence to fire up and did final check when they were on the runway path before takeoff. (1:46:10)They would take off on parallel runways with no lights on them. They took off individually and had a rendezvous point There were 6 in each squadron and 24 in a group They had tight formations. 90 % of their bombings were right on target. Didn’t have much fuel to fly in formations. It took more to do this. They would have to head off home after short missions Were required to give reports of their bombing over frequencies. Didn’t have to code it if you hit the targets (1:48:50)Didn’t always know if you hit the target if it was night. Most night raids were harassment raids where they would have a bomber go every thirty minutes or so and drop something on the fields. They would do this for four to five days before an invasion to make the people tired and jumpy They had good milk runs which were runs where you went out in formations dropped the bombs and went home (1:51:30)John’s crew never collided with other aircraft but there were serious close calls where they would get lost in clouds and had to hold their breaths till they could see each other again. If you flew 35 missions there you could go home John wanted to fly ‘Flight Leads’ so he had to fly 45 missions (1:52:48)John gave orders that his flight crew not fly with anyone else. This happened and they ended up losing 2 members of their crew (1:56:57)They received a 2-3 week rest leave down in Australia cut short by plans to expedite the war against Japan which they found out they had volunteered to do. By now we were in Okinawa Japan and they didn’t go out in big groups any more, just with 2 or 3 planes at a time (1:58:12)Were involved in the Brunei Bay Battle in Borneo with the Aussies. They had to fly down the beach, all four squadrons, just before the ships landed and drop the bombs on the beach. They had 10 minute time span, no word from control center for ok. Tried �• • • • • • • • • • • this three times before they lost formations and each other, with John only left they received word to drop and John does. Hits the target alone (2:02:20)Last mission. Down south, Japanese airfield all grass suitable for fighters. This was call the ‘B24’s fighter sweep’ later on. (2:07:44)John’s rank at this time was still 1st Lieutenant. He had 3 or 4 air medals by this time due to amount of missions he was on. He had 7 battle stars also (2:10:07)Back in the states Brought home on a Danish troop ship. John was mess officer on board. The ship was headed for San Pedro, California. VJ day was already celebrated before they arrived in port. Boarded a train to Camp Hahn in southern California where they were processed and shipped his things back home otherwise he had to turn them back into the military Boarded another train to Seattle where his high school girlfriend was Went to air base in Boyne Field. Took northwest air flight back home to Chicago and took a bus that went right by his farm (2:15:49)John said his experience he would not trade for anything but would not want to repeat it Had to return to Santa Ana California after one month for reassignment Had to get flight time before going through separation (2:19:15)1956 finally receives promotion to Captain John says his experience in the military grew him up fast but didn’t change much in his life since what he was going to do before going in the military he completed when he returned home anyways. Says he knew they were involved in something great but his experience would definitely be different than one who was in daily combat � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ReevesJ1 Title A name given to the resource Reeves, John (Interview outline and video, 1 of 2), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Reeves, John T. Description An account of the resource John Reeves was a B-24 pilot in World War II where he flew 45 missions in the Pacific. He provides a detailed account of training and of missions over New Guinea, the Philippines, Okinawa and the Netherlands East Indies. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Michigan Military Preservation Society (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Air Force World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-06-26 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/af3f56ec929b372209e42fc2c222182d.mp4 5b6c9671e0254f02288e24b000fb80e6 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d6bdf176aa5ea64ced39fd0ce90f3c2b.pdf d8aa9d27ebe3b9bce701cb26babede8e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of Interviewee: John Reeves; (2nd) Name of War: World War II Length of Interview: (00:37:20) (00:25) Last Mission         John Reeves had already done an interview, but later recalled his last mission and wanted to make sure that it would also be documented During his last interview he had left off around June of 1945 John’s last plane mission turned out to be a rescue mission They left early in the morning in order to find an Australian cruiser that was headed towards Borneo as a submarine escort (01:22) They were flying at about 4,000 feet until the cruiser got to the island The rest of the planes in the group were just flying over the airfield in Borneo One of the planes was hit by a shell in its tanks and fuel began spilling out of it (03:51) It was then being escorted by another aircraft, but they were not sure where to land (05:10) Plane Down  John had wanted to help, but his plane would need more fuel if he was to do so  He continued with the Australian cruiser until they reached Borneo  John made a short field landing and loaded up with gasoline very quickly and was back up in the air again within a half hour  He spotted the wreck in the ocean; there were rafts and debris all over the place  It was strung out within about 11 miles and there were 35 foot swells (11:51)  The sun was setting very fast and it was getting dark  Rescue boats began to arrive while they were leaving and John had enough fuel to land at Morotai (15:25) (15:45) Reunion  They arrived back at about 3 in the morning and had been gone for 23 hours  Moving forward to 1985, John had traveled South to see an air show  Some had asked why there were not any B-24s, and John began speaking with the man  They found out they were both in the 13th Air Force, and John began telling about his last mission  The men had actually been in the plane that went down, and John had rescued him  They found other men that had been there that day and decided to all meet the next year in Nashville (17:58) �  The men had all though they had been rescued by the Navy; they had never gotten a chance to meet John They still have reunions every year now (22:30) Training  At the time of the crash, some PT boats had gone back to the area and some B-24s because they thought there were 2 men missing, but they were never found (22:35)  John had been trained for high altitude bombing and not for skip bombing (24:55)  The mission to Borneo was new to them and they had not been trained for such flights  John had many missions come up in which he had not been properly trained; they just had to figure things out as they went along (27:50) Lack of Targets  In June of 1945 the fighter opposition had practically disappeared  Anti-aircraft was their biggest problem and they were running out of targets (28:15)  The Australians had been using bow fighters as fighters and could not keep up with the faster planes or work well at low altitudes (29:31)  There were a total of 12 aircraft that had been lost in the area and only 2 had been rescued (31:17)  They had many search missions, but there was never a trace or any clues as to the mission aircraft Interview Ends (35:16) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ReevesJ2 Title A name given to the resource Reeves, John (Interview outline and video, 2 of 2), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Reeves, John T. Description An account of the resource This interview adds new material to the original interview, specifically focusing on his efforts to help rescue the crew of the downed B-24 crew in the waters off of Borneo. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-02-14 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4bbfd6ef8442720fad49f635e45f7ba5.mp4 4e0a27afaf6f503a4319e638d7f0fea4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d82e3f422ffc45086e25950124201187.pdf cb361ed39bd81f74d92956383c89b8d4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project John Reilly Vietnam War Interview Length (00:48:11:00) Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:14:00)  Reilly was born in Kittery, Maine on December 5th, 1946 (00:00:14:00) o When Reilly was born, his father was stationed in Portsmouth, New Hampshire as a member of the U.S. Navy and Reilly was born in the naval hospital on the base (00:00:24:00) o Shortly after Reilly was born, his family moved to New Jersey, where his father, who was a doctor, set up a medical practice (00:00:31:00)  According to Reilly, New Jersey was a great place to grow up and spent all of his life there until going to college in Pennsylvania; after completing college and his military service, Reilly returned to New Jersey and has lived there ever since (00:00:43:00) o Reilly’s mother worked as a nurse; his parents met in New York City, when his father was an intern at a hospital and his mother was an RN (00:01:17:00)  The couple married before Reilly’s father enlisted in the Navy to serve during World War II (00:01:25:00) o After finishing high school, Reilly attended Villanova University in Pennsylvania and graduated with a bachelor’s degree in Social Science in 1968 (00:01:36:00)  Prior to graduating from college, Reilly had a student deferment (00:02:07:00) o Because his draft number was so low, only in the upper fifties, Reilly was faced with a decision shortly after he finished his degree in regards to his military service (00:02:14:00)  Reilly ended up enlisting in the U.S. Army in July 1968 (00:02:28:00) o When he enlisted, Reilly was given the option of joining the three combat arms of the Army: infantry, armored, or artillery (00:02:44:00)  Reilly chose artillery and was initially scheduled to go into the Officer Candidate program (00:02:56:00) o Reilly did not actually report for his training until November 1968, so for a threemonth period between his enlistment in July and actually going in November, he worked a job in New Jersey (00:03:03:00) o Reilly had signed up for a three-year enlistment consisting of: basic training, advanced training, and officer training, followed by a two-year commitment when he received his commission (00:03:23:00)  Once he finally joined the Army, Reilly went through basic training at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, where Reilly stayed for about eight weeks (00:03:37:00) o After completing basic training, Reilly was sent to the Army Artillery school at Fort Sill, Oklahoma for his advanced training (00:03:51:00)  Once he finished the advanced training, Reilly stayed at Fort Sill and completed his officer training, which he began in March or April 1969 (00:04:07:00) � At the time, individual sections of the advanced training was not specifically geared towards officers; although a number of the other men in Reilly’s section went into the artillery OCS (Officer Candidate School) with Reilly, not all of them did (00:04:27:00)  During the training, Reilly trained in a variety of different methods, from training on the actually artillery guns to working in an FDC (Fire Direction Center) (00:04:54:00) o When he finished the advanced training, Reilly was given some leave and he returned home to New Jersey to see his family before reporting back to Fort Sill for OCS (00:05:12:00) o After Reilly had been in OCS for a period of time, he made the decision to opt out of the program and just spend the remainder of his enlistment deployed in Vietnam (00:05:28:00)  Prior to actually doing so, Reilly was told that if he opted out of OCS, he was definitely going to be sent to join an artillery unit in Vietnam, which was fine with him (00:05:37:00)  Reilly made it six weeks into the six-month OCS program before deciding to opt-out (00:05:56:00)  Based on his advanced training, it was fairly clear to Reilly that when he deployed to Vietnam, he was going to be assigned to work in an FDC (00:06:21:00) Vietnam Deployment (00:06:21:00)  After opting-out of OCS, Reilly had a thirty-day leave to return home before flying in June from New Jersey to Fort Lewis, Washington; Reilly spent a brief period of time at Fort Lewis before deploying to Vietnam on June 22nd, 1969 (00:06:52:00)  Although Reilly did receive some training at Fort Sill specifically in regards to Vietnam, from what he can remember, it was largely an orientation as to what the men could expect when they deployed (00:07:43:00) o Reilly received more specific training when he arrived in-country at Cam Ranh Bay (00:07:53:00)  When he arrived in-country, Reilly was assigned to the 101st Airborne Division and was sent to a training facility in Biên Hòa for a week to ten days of orientation about what to expect once in the field (00:07:58:00)  When he first received orders for Vietnam, Reilly did not know specific unit he would be joining when he deployed; the decision to send him to the 101st Airborne was based on the needs of the units in Vietnam in terms of training and background (00:08:32:00) o Reilly could have been assigned to one of six or seven different divisions and he ended up in the 101st Airborne, which just happened to be the most active division in Vietnam (00:08:45:00) o When he was sent to the orientation in Biên Hòa, Reilly knew he was joining the 101st Airborne; however, he did not know which specific unit within the division he was be assigned to (00:09:24:00)  At the time Reilly went through the orientation, there were maybe thirty or forty other soldiers in the course (00:09:28:00) �   When Reilly first arrived in Vietnam, his first thought was “I hope to God that I make it through this year”; Reilly was not exactly sure what he was going to face (00:09:58:00) o Prior to deploying, Reilly had heard a lot of stories about what Vietnam was like from friends who had served in either the Marines or Army (00:10:04:00) o Although he was apprehensive, as anyone would be, Reilly had a feeling that everything would work out (00:10:31:00) Being that it was 110° in the shade and around 100% humidity, going to the orientation in Biên Hòa helped Reilly become acclimated to the weather (00:10:54:00) After completing the orientation course in Biên Hòa, Reilly was placed onboard a C-130 with a group of soldiers and the entire group was flown from Biên Hòa north to Phu Bai, which was the airport located next to Camp Eagle, which was the home of the 101st Airborne’s headquarters (00:11:15:00) o Once at Camp Eagle, Reilly was assigned to join 2nd Battalion of the 11th Field Artillery Regiment (00:11:48:00) o When Reilly arrived at Camp Eagle, the 2nd of the 11th had their rear headquarters on the base, as well as a fire direction center, the headquarters battery and a supply battery (00:12:09:00)  Apart from the unit at Camp Eagle, the battalion also had three batteries in the field: Alpha, Bravo, and Charlie; each battery was assigned to a different fire base with orders to support the infantry units operating in the field (00:12:37:00) o When Reilly arrived at the battalion headquarters, he met the First Sergeant incharge of operations, who asked Reilly about his background and assigned him to the headquarters battery (00:12:54:00)  However, shortly thereafter, Reilly was sent out to joined Charlie Battery, which was stationed on Firebase Airborne, to be a member of the fire direction control on the firebase (00:13:11:00)  The firebase was near the Laotian-Vietnamese border, right on the edge of the A Shau Valley (00:13:34:00) o Each battery in the battalion and each battery had six 155mm howitzers as its main armament (00:14:05:00)  When Reilly joined, Charlie Battery had all six of its howitzers stationed in the top of a mountain, Firebase Airborne, and had orders to support infantry operations in the A Shau Valley (00:14:18:00)  When Reilly arrived at the battery, he was assigned to work in the FDC; the job of the FDC was coordinating with the actually artillery guns to make sure the guns were pointed in the right direction and were hitting the proper target(s) (00:14:37:00)  Although the men in the FDC had access to computers, they sometimes, if the computers were down or they wanted to doublecheck, had to compute the firing data manually (00:15:40:00)  Apart from the three or four soldiers in the section, there was also an officer and the officer would sign off in the data before sending the data out to the guns (00:16:05:00) o Technically, all the firing data the FDC computed had to be signed off by someone from battalion headquarters; �  normally, the FDC just called the battalion headquarters with the firing data and an officer there would doublecheck it before signing off (00:16:30:00)  Obviously, the men in the FDC tried to compute the firing data as quickly as possible when a request would come in (00:17:08:00) o Normally, computing the firing data took only a matter of minutes, although sometimes it was less and sometimes it was more; the length of time it took to get the firing data largely depended on extenuating circumstances, such as the locations of units and the possibility of friendly forces being in the area (00:17:19:00)  Although Reilly does recall it happening a couple of times, it was not too often that the battalion would call back and say that something in the firing data was inaccurate (00:18:11:00)  There were a number of different jobs within FDC itself, from calculating the deflection of the guns to calculating the elevation of the targets (00:18:49:00) o Usually, the men who had been in the field longer would be given the more complicated parts of the calculations; therefore, when he first arrived, Reilly might have only been looking at elevations (00:19:24:00) o As Reilly spent more time in-country and gained more experience, he moved up in terms of the calculations he would perform (00:20:45:00) Reilly only spent about six weeks stationed on Firebase Airborne before the firebase was closed down (00:21:03:00) o However, as the rest of the battalion left, Reilly was selected to be part of a small group of men from the 2nd of the 11th who stayed behind on the firebase to help the infantry close the firebase down (00:21:10:00)  Once the firebase was officially closed, Reilly and the small group were airlifted out (00:21:27:00) o In order to get the howitzers off the firebase, Chinook helicopters were flown over and they carried the guns to a different firebase (00:21:53:00)  Sometimes, the new firebase location was near the old one and sometimes, it was many miles away (00:22:27:00) Once he finished helping shut down Firebase Airborne, Reilly moved to Firebase Berchtesgaden, which was located in another part of the A Shau Valley, and was assigned to FDC (00:22:47:00) o By the time Reilly arrived, the firebase was already established and apart from 155mm howitzers, there was also a group of 105mm howitzers and an infantry mortar group (00:23:10:00) o Although he had moved to a new firebase, the procedures that Reilly had to do were pretty much the same as the ones he had done on Firebase Airborne; all the officers were the same and the FDC team was pretty much the same (00:23:45:00) � o The number of fire missions the FDC would process in a day varied quite a bit, anywhere from two to five a day, with five missions being uncommonly high for a single day (00:24:09:00)  On occasion, interdictory missions where scheduled and those involved the guns firing into the jungle at night to locations where intelligence indicated enemy forces might be located (00:24:22:00) o While stationed at Berchtesgaden, Reilly’s unit came under enemy mortar and rocket fire; while the unit was on Airborne, although there were threats of attack, none actually happened (00:25:02:00) Reilly was stationed on Berchtesgaden for about a month or so before he was recalled to the battalion headquarters (00:25:24:00) o The day after Reilly was recalled, the entire firebase was overrun by North Vietnamese forces (00:25:34:00) o When Reilly was recalled, there was a job opening at the battalion headquarters that required someone with a fire-direction background; from that point until the end of his tour, Reilly served in the battalion headquarters (00:26:18:00)  During the entire time Reilly was stationed at the battalion headquarters, from Sept 1969 to June 1970, the headquarters never moved its location except for one time, when a small section of the unit traveled north to the DMZ (De-militarized zone) on a raid (00:26:41:00) o In theory, the roles of the personnel at the battalion headquarters were the same as those personnel stationed on a firebase (00:28:14:00)  However, the operations at the battalion headquarters tended to be more by the book and followed more of the pre-set procedures (00:28:28:00)  The personnel in the battalion headquarters tended to react more to what was happening in the field and providing the proper support, which meant they were more cognoscente and aware of the needs of the units in the field (00:28:55:00) o While at the battalion headquarters, Reilly worked seven days a week, twelve hour shifts each day; each shift ran from either two in the morning until two in the afternoon or two in the afternoon until two in the morning (00:30:30:00)  About once a month, the commanders would alternate which soldiers worked on which shift (00:30:49:00)  In Reilly’s experience, he worked with a great group of soldiers who all worked well together and they had a good group of officers; all in all, Reilly believes they did a good job providing support to the infantry units already in the field (00:31:06:00) o While Reilly was there, the battalion headquarters was resupplied both by air and by road (00:31:28:00)  Camp Eagle was a major base camp, with upwards of 10,000 soldiers stationed on it, so resupply was often down with trucks bringing in supplies that had been brought in either using transport airplanes to Phu Bai or cargo ships along the coast (00:31:34:00)  A lot of the supplies brought onto the base were either ammunition or food, although it was not limited to that (00:32:00:00) �  o While Reilly was on Camp Eagle, the battalion headquarters was responsible for guarding a certain portion of the Camp Eagle perimeter and Reilly recalls being stationed in bunkers during the middle of the night on guard duty (00:32:32:00)  Normally, Reilly would have a chance to go on guard duty once every three or four weeks (00:33:07:00) o On occasion, soldiers in the battalion headquarters would be rotated out to one of the batteries in the field; typically, soldiers were not brought from a battery in the field to the battalion headquarters unless someone at battalion headquarters was rotating home and there was going to be a personnel vacancy (00:34:24:00) During the fighting around Firebase Ripcord, Reilly and the other soldiers in the FDC were very aware of what was happening at the firebase (00:35:44:00) o They would talk with personnel stationed on the firebase over the radio; although the soldiers talked with personnel stationed on all the firebases, it was around Ripcord that the most action was occurring (00:35:50:00) o Ultimately, the major action around Firebase Ripcord did not happen until Reilly had already rotated home (00:36:04:00) o Although he never got involved in the drug use himself, Reilly saw other soldiers using marijuana, especially when he was stationed at Camp Eagle (00:36:41:00)  Although Reilly heard rumors about soldiers using stronger drugs, he never really saw any significant use of them (00:37:13:00)  Reilly avoided drugs because in his mind, he had enough challenges just being in Vietnam without needing to use drugs (00:37:28:00) o Reilly did have some contact with local Vietnamese, in particular Kit Carson scouts assigned to the various units in the area (00:37:38:00)  Reilly also had contact with local Vietnamese who would do menial tasks around Camp Eagle, such as cleaning or doing the soldiers’ laundry at a Laundromat located on the base (00:38:12:00)  The Vietnamese who worked on the base were supervised to a degree, mostly to ensure that they did not try to bring a gun or grenade onto the base (00:38:40:00) o Reilly was able to get off-base on a couple of occasions and often, he would go to Eagle Beach, which was a guarded beach area that the soldiers could go to for a day or two (00:39:08:00)  Going to the beach was a nice diversion from what Reilly was doing on a day-to-day basis (00:39:29:00) The racial make-ups of the units Reilly served with were mostly divided between whites, especially at the officer level, and African-Americans; there were some LatinoAmericans but the majority of the soldiers were in the former groups (00:40:15:00) o Reilly detected racial tension amongst some of the soldiers, as well as a certain apathy amongst others, who would often look the other way and not try to address the racial tensions (00:41:08:00)  Reilly personally never had any problems with other soldiers; in his mind, they were all soldiers, they were all serving their country, and they should all try to help each other out, if not as friends, as comrades (00:41:22:00) � Although soldiers would not outright disobey commands, Reilly saw different situations where soldiers were not responsive to the commands or would respond in a different manner (00:41:57:00) o The interactions between the different racial groups varied with the soldiers; some of the soldiers natural congregated with their own racial group but others had no problem integrating with the other groups (00:42:36:00) o On several occasions, Reilly saw fights break out that could have had racial motives but there was never anything major (00:43:16:00) o According to Reilly’s perspective, the command structure was reluctant to address the racial issues within the unit (00:43:49:00)  However, even if the officers had tried to address the issue, Reilly does not think they even knew what they could do; it was a difficult time in the United States racial and the military was a reflection of that (00:44:24:00) End of Tour (00:44:47:00)  When Reilly’s tour ended, he was sent from Camp Eagle back to Cam Ranh Bay; it was a good feeling when Reilly boarded the flight out of Vietnam because he realized that he had made it (00:44:47:00) o From Cam Ranh Bay, Reilly flew to Fort Lewis, where he stayed for a day or two before flying home to Newark, New Jersey (00:45:11:00)  Reilly remembers that when he got home, his father had hung a large banner on their house that said “Welcome Home John” (00:45:21:00)  By the time Reilly arrived at Fort Lewis, he had less than five months remain on his enlistment and according to procedure, he was given an “early-out” and received an honorable discharge (00:45:40:00)  Re-enlisting was not at the top of Reilly’s list; he had a great job waiting for him in New Jersey and he knew what was happening back in Vietnam through letters from his friends (00:45:57:00)  Although he was happy that he made it home, Reilly still felt for the soldiers who were still in Vietnam (00:46:34:00)  Once he was back in New Jersey, Reilly went back to his job working for Prudential Insurance (00:46:52:00)  Reilly had mixed emotions about his time in the service; although it was a tough experience and he had friends who served as well who were killed or wounded, Reilly was personally very happy that he had served (00:47:26:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ReillyJ1272V Title A name given to the resource Reilly, John (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Reilly, John Description An account of the resource John Reilly was born in Kittery, Maine, in 1946, and grew up in New Jersey. After graduating from college in 1968, he decided to enlist in the Army before he was drafted. After basic training at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, Reilly went through the Army Artillery School at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. Although initially slated for officer training, Reilly dropped out and deployed to Vietnam in June 1969. Once in Vietnam, Reilly joined the 2nd Battalion, 11th Field Artillery Regiment, 101st Airborne Division. Trained in fire direction control, he served at Firebases Airborne and Berchtesgaden in the latter stages of the 1969 campaign in the A Shau Valley, and later served with the battalion headquarters at Camp Eagle, where he was stationed at the start of the Ripcord campaign. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McGregor, Michael (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-10-07 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6a7bb092168ff2b8b5ca1c40fea52191.mp4 9e5222f51b6e3626ccec4a3e1c7ce101 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/721bd6d46260b5c507cad918e66ccc76.pdf 44d4cf316daf7e618e1308e4c3d93a82 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Joe Reiss Length of interview (1:23:09) (0:36) Background Born October 3, 1920 in Cheshire Township, Michigan (0:48) Father worked as a blacksmith in town of Agnew, Michigan (3:12) Father died when he was 10 years old (5:15) Highest formal education achieved was 8th grade (3:20) Before the war, he served in the Civilian Conservation Corps for 9 months (4:00) In CC, he planted trees and stood watch for fires at night (8:51) Working at American brass in Grand Haven, Michigan when Pearl Harbor, Hawaii was bombed (4:45) Wanted to defend his country so he joined the Marine Corps (5:44) Had to wait until after Christmas 1941 before he enlisted (6:10) (7:00) Training Went to Parris Island, South Carolina for basic training (7:15) Learned discipline, marching, and physical training (7:36) Had good drill instructors didn’t bother him much (7:45) Then he went to Camp Lejeune, North Carolina for additional training (8:45) Training was pretty easy for him, got experience from the CC (11:15) Developed good marksman skills from hunting rabbits as a child (14:14) More interested in shot grouping, rather than bulls eye (15:00) From Camp Lejeune he was shipped to San Francisco, California (15:30) (16:00) Active Duty Assigned to Company E, 2nd battalion, 1st Marine Division (2:09) From California they went to New Zealand for 3 days to restock supplies (16:00) Japanese were building an airbase on Guadalcanal to bomb Australia (16:32) Did an amphibious landing on Guadalcanal, encountered no resistance (17:15) The only people there were workers building the airstrip (18:41) His ship, U.S.S. Elliot, was bombed and caught fire; had to be sunken (19:55) Set up camp on a grassy knoll and had to keep the position (20:00) Didn’t see any resistance for a couple weeks, then the Japanese came (24:03) Suffered little casualties and killed about 1400 Japanese (25:15) Assigned to scout sniper, used a M1903 Springfield Rifle (25:25) Stayed at Guadalcanal for about 4 months and didn’t have much food (26:45) After Guadalcanal they went to Australia to rest and resupply (27:55) While in Australia they got new uniforms and received well balanced meals (28:25) �(29:00) New Britain In the summer of 1942 [1943] went from Australia to New Britain (29:12) Landed on the southern part of the island on New Britain in December 1943 (32:40) Encountered little opposition when landing, but camps were everywhere (33:11) Stayed at New Britain for about 6 months (36:20) Could shove a pipe into the side of a mountain and get fresh warm water (36:33) Had a few battles at New Britain, but they never took the island completely (37:45) Next they went to island of Pavuvu near Guadalcanal (38:30) On the island there were a lot of mosquitos, rats and small crocodiles (39:10) After Pavuvu, they were shipped to island of Peleliu (41:00) He was put in charge of 2 battalion groups [?] as a Private First Class (41:28) (41:30) Peleliu He was part of the first wave that landed on Peleliu and made it fine (41:45) Japanese figured they could let 1st wave land, and get them later (42:00) Only on Peleliu for a couple days before he was wounded (45:00) He was shot through the arm and hand and got shrapnel in his hand (46:25) Made his way back to the ocean and was evacuated by ship (47:15) Transferred to the U.S.S. Henderson and then went back to Guadalcanal (47:30) Treated at Army hospital in Guadalcanal before going back to California (47:56) Flew from California to Great Lakes Hospital in Illinois (48:00) He got out of the hospital the day that the war ended (48:45) While on Guadalcanal they were not able to get the proper supplies (53:00) On New Britain while making a shack, bitten by tarantula and got malaria (55:00) While in Australia the United Services Organization visited the troops (57:30) (49:00) Post Service Used to wearing uniforms; civilian life took some getting used to (50:15) Received a Purple Heart Award for being wounded (51:07) Wasn’t able to keep in touch with his family while overseas (51:45) While he was serving his brothers also joined the armed services (52:15) Never doubted that the United States was going to win the war (56:14) Had a lot a respect for his fellow marines and commanders (1:04:00) Got a job at American Brass after he was discharged (1:05:00) Made a lot of close friends while in the service, he the only one left (1:06:00) Joined the Veterans Foreign Wars (VFW) for a while but quit (1:08:09) Member of the 1st Marine Division association and Guadalcanal association (1:08:00) Worked at Bastian-Blessing for 25 years making kitchen appliances (1:09:12) Married Louise Davis in 1948 and had five children (1:10:56) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ReissJ1373V Title A name given to the resource Reiss, Joe (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Reiss, Joe Description An account of the resource Joe Reiss was born in Cheshire Township, Michigan, in 1920. He enlisted in the Marine Corps shortly after Pearl Harbor, and was assigned to the 1st Marine Division as a rifleman. He went with then to train in New Zealand, and was part of the initial landing on Guadalcanal, where he became a sniper and served for about four months. After rebuilding in Australia, his unit landed at Cape Gloucester on New Britain, in 1943, and on Peleliu in 1944. He was wounded on Pelelieu and sent back to the US, and got out of the hospital the day the war ended. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Erichsen, Wallace (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Marine Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-02-16 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5ea5564e83383a4290e27b1e647a9a57.m4v 0f146d1afa82b16732cb027fc90cf63c https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/47bf2a90d879e0471cedb4b21aa22362.pdf 99f55b811684b711bca297ef11cebbd7 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II - WACs Lillian Remus Length of Interview: (00:09) DM: This is Douglas Montagna from Grand Valley State and I‟m here talking with Lillian Remus about her experiences during World War II. The first question is if you could speak a little bit about what you were doing before World War II. LR: Before World War II, I was in the restaurant business. And so I can remember the rationng that we had, gas rationing, and shoe rationing. Meat rationing. I can remember all that, but we had plenty because of being in the restaurant business. We were rationed but we had stuff. But I do remember that, I remember when war was declared, I remember being at bar where I was working, when that was declared. And so I remember quite a bit about the different things that was going on, at that time. (01:04) DM: Do you remember, did the Great Depression hurt your restaurant business or were you able to still do well during that time? LR: Well, I always thought the Great Depression was back in the „30s…see, we weren‟t in the restaurant business yet. See, I was a farmer, a farm gal. Because I graduated from high school in ‟36, and that was almost the end of the Great Depression. And I remember that being a farmer, and I say, my dad, he raised chickens mainly, and then the other, we always had food. We had fruit trees. We had an eighty-acre farm. We had fruit trees, vegetables, we always had food. It might be rice, applesauce, things like that, but we always had food. And we shared it with our neighbors that did not have any, I remember that so much. But, yes, I can remember the Depression, and how we felt, we had a lot. There were eight of us children. And we felt we were very well loved, very well taken care of. And that we did not miss anything. I guess we knew no better. Because we just didn‟t get to town, so we didn‟t know what was out in that wild, wide world. I think that‟s why, looking back, I think that‟s why I joined the WACs. To get out and see what‟s in the wide world. (02:35) DM: Do you remember Pearl Harbor and the day of Pearl Harbor, when you first heard about it? LR: Uh, I don‟t remember that much. I remember it happening and it coming over the radio. I remember that. And, say too much, now that, with the young men around, that was when, yeah, I would have been in the restaurant business already. Wasn‟t Pearl Harbor…I‟m trying to think what day that was… DM: December 7, 1941. �LR: Yeah, see, that was before…no, it wasn‟t. I was in business already, because I opened up in ‟38. So, yeah. And that‟s maybe what got me thinking more, yeah, that I could go out and do something else besides being in a restaurant like I was. (03:27) DM: Um hmm. Can you talk a little bit about the circumstances that most encouraged you to enlist and join the WACs? LR: I think I always was adventurous. I‟m always that type. Because when I was going to college, I took…I had one year of college. I was taking up home economics, cause I wanted to travel. I had said then, if I could get in with some company, do demonstration work, and travel. That was my main thing. So, then, when I had this other girlfriend that said she‟d like to join the WACs, how „bout me? And I said yes, but my folks were in Florida, who run the restaurant, and I did not ask them. I just joined up and went. And then they were notified, and then because of them, then I came back home after six months. But I‟d say it was wanting to get out. Wanting to get out and see more of the world. (04:34) DM: Do you remember if people around you, your friends, customers, co-workers, what did they think about you joining the WACs? LR: They wondered why I would go. They wondered why I would go, because some of them felt I had it made where I was at. And I did have… a lot of friends, a lot of support, but again, I‟ll say, I had no steady boyfriend and I was 23, and so I had no reason that I had to stay home. Cause all my younger ones, my younger sisters, were all gone, so I and my brother were the only ones living on a big farmhouse. Six bedroom farm house, where when Mother and Dad took off for Florida, we were the only two there. So I just wanted to get out, and see the other parts of the country. And I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it very much. I don‟t regret going at all. (05:38) DM: Do you remember what your parents attitudes were? LR: They were ah…they just wondered why I would leave. See…I don‟t know what the word is, but they wondered why I would leave and not stay home and support my dad. Because with him telling me that he would put up that ice cream place for me, if I would run it, and he would pay me, if I would run it, instead of going to college. And so he put up the restaurant for me. I did run it. They put it up and it opened in July of ‟38, and then I signed up in ‟43. So I‟d run it for quite a while. And had a very good business. And a lot of friends. But I just decided I just wanted to get out and see more of the world. And I will say, we have traveled extensively, my husband and I. We have traveled. We‟re not home people. We‟re busy people, out and going. (06:47) DM: And, then…can you talk a little bit about how you joined the WACs, and the process by which you got into it? LR: What do you mean, how I… �DM: Did you, where did you go to sign up for it? Did you go immediately? LR: Oh, oh. We went to Muskegon and then we were taken down to Detroit. I think it was Detroit. We had our physical at Kalamazoo, and then we went on to Chicago, I got. (lloking down at paper.) „Cause I got “On February 23rd, 1943, went to Kalamazoo for our physical and there was sworn in. Then we went to Chicago, and from there to Daytona Beach, and was down at Daytona Beach at the Clariton Hotel.” And, I got, “everything was running good.” But my girlfriend and I, we were put in different companies. We were put in different companies, so I heard from her for a while, but she stayed in. When I got out, she stayed in. (07:56) DM: What was the training like? LR: The training, I thought the training was great, because I enjoyed cooking. And I enjoyed experimenting. And I learned to cook with dried material. How to serve dried, and how to serve in big quantities. And how to do a lot of cooking, baking. And I kept recipes for a while, but I enjoyed it very much. I enjoyed the cooking very much. DM: Did you do much of what we associate with men‟s basic training? Drilling, exercising, marching? LR: Yes. I enjoyed that also. Because I also did a lot of walking, biking, because… of course, I had a car when I was working, but before that I did a lot of bicycling with another friend of mine. We had our bikes. We had our rollerskates. We had that, being on the farm. We had things like that for amusement. And so I did enjoy the regimentation, with the marching. I did. (09:08) DM: And… you were in Florida. Did you stay…where did you stay? Did you stay in Florida your whole time? LR: Yes. We were at the Clariton Hotel, which was quite a place. We were at the Clariton Hotel, all the time I was there. All the time I was in, was at the Clariton Hotel, staying around there. And I said, it was in dormitories, but it was just in big rooms, there. At the hotel. It was great. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the comradeship with the other girls. And wrote to them for a while. I just always have enjoyed being out like that. I like to be disciplined. I mean, I can see discipline and I can give it. I can take it and I can give it. (10:05) DM: So you were mostly training, learning how to cook dried food and so forth. LR: Yes. Yes, I mostly learned how to cook. DM: Now, had you stayed in, what were some of the things or places you could have gone, the things you could have done? �LR: I was going to go out as a mess sergeant. See, this is what they had told me. That if I stayed in, you will be going out as a mess sergeant. But, again, they did not say where I would be going. If I would be given a choice. But I would be going out as a mess sergeant. (Interruption from outside room.) (10:54) DM: Was there any sense of danger among the people that were in the WACs? I mean, was there any sense that something dangerous, that you could get killed or injured? LR: No, not as far as I was. Because we were still in training, you see. If someone went out afterwards, yes. DM: Then there was… LR: Yes. Again, I was in training. And it wasn‟t that great, yet. Things weren‟t…because we were not in the Army. See, we‟re just auxiliary. DM: Even if you had become a mess sergeant, would you have been in the Army, then, or would you have been auxiliary? LR: Yes. Yes. Cause you see, I would have had to sign back in, and say, on this certain day in August, that you had to go out the back door, from what I remember, come in the front door, and sign up. And my superior, I don‟t know what her name was. I know I got a picture of her. She advised that I did go home, as long as my parents needed me so bad. That I did go home and help my parents. Instead of staying. So that‟s about what I did. (12:03) DM: Was there anything in your six months in the WACs that you remember as being especially interesting, or anything noteworthy that happened while you were in the WACs, or pretty much routine? LR: No. Pretty much routine. Pretty much routine. I can remember sitting on our cots. I can remember sometimes going into town, like we did. To go along with the trucks, go in town and that. But as far as doing much, no. We were right there. We were right there. DM: Okay. Then your parents helped convince you to go back and help with the family business? LR: Right. Correct. If it wasn‟t for them, I would have never gone back. I would have stayed in, and wonder what would have happened. You can always wonder, what would have happened had you stayed in. (12:54) DM: Was that a tough decision for you at the time? �LR: Uh…yes, I think it was. I was going to say, yes and no, because I did appreciate my parents and I knew how much they needed me at home. But I was giving up my life for theirs, more or less. For what they wanted. And that‟s what some people still do. You give up what you really want to do for … your parents. DM: For family members, yeah. (13:23) LR: That‟s what I did, yeah. DM: Were they… with you gone, did they have a hard time replacing you? LR: Yes, they did. Yes, they did. Although my dad always told me that everybody can be replaced. In some way. But they did not make the pies in the way that I made. I remember when I got home a big, big sign on the window, of the dairy bar, “Lillian is back! Her pies are back!” And so I must have made special pies, I don‟t know. But I must have. And so, that‟s what I would say, I was very much appreciated. That I came back. That I come back. So, I was glad that I came back. And I will say that when I got home, then here was a letter from this guy, that I had met years earlier, hadn‟t gone with him. Met him. And for some reason, he had carried my address with him. So here was a letter that he wrote, I think he was in Sicily or some place, and wanted to know had I married the guy I was going with. And this and this and this. (14:35) LR: And then I corresponded with him for two years, until he come home. And then we got married. DM: So it‟s possible if you had stayed in, you never would have pursued your relationship? LR: Yeah. You don‟t know. He would have been in, I would have been in, what it would be. One never knows. (14:55) DM: And, then, when you got back, were you still, did you still pay attention to the war? Did you follow the war on the news? LR: Yes. Yes. Very much. Very much so. Because, especially, writing to him. Then you followed it quite close. Then I followed it close, yeah. And then, things were not that good as far as your rationing. Your food. Things going like that. You had to have all of that, from what I remember. Plan all of that. DM: And then could you…just briefly talk about what you did later on in life, after you got out of the WACs and went back to the restaurant business for a while. (15:41) LR: Well, after I got out, when I was in the restaurant business for a while, and then got married. And as far as never having any children, always had been active…I took care of children in my �home for a while. I worked at a Y(WCA) and taught crafts. And then I started hiking, a hiking group. And my picture‟s in the paper, three years ago this fall. When I was 87 years old, they thought that was old for still leading hikes in a state park. And I was still doing that, I still am doing that, and so at my 90th birthday, there was quite a party for me, again. For leading hikes, leading them and having the people come out. I had thirty-five of my friends come out for my 90th birthday, for the park. So, ah, I have been very active with the public. Very active with the public. Right now, we are raising monarch butterflies and black swallowtails and painted ladies butterflies. And we had people come in yesterday, we had a mother come in with extra girls and to show the butterflies, how they‟re raised, from their eggs…and, so I still teach and be very active with the children. (17:14) DM: Sounds… LR: So it‟s great. We enjoy it. DM: Okay. Is there anything else to say, or… LR: No. I think that‟s about it. (17:23) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RemusL Title A name given to the resource Remus, Lillian (Interview transcript and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Remus, Lillian Description An account of the resource Lillian Hansen grew up on a farm in Michigan during the Depression and graduated from high school in 1936. She then worked in her parent's restaurant for a few years before enlisting in the Women's Army Corps (WACs) on February 23, 1943. She trained at a hotel in Daytona Beach, Florida and cooked for the troops. After training Lillian returned home to help her parents run their business. She began writing to Raymond Remus, an old friend from high school, who was fighting in Italy. They got married when he returned 2 years later. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Montagna, Douglas (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army. Women's Army Corps Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-08-12 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e2ce5c8ed45ef94fb3cad9479e08f4cb.mp4 5107ecce3d93426a3c644c6a5dda4f9b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6a5567e5840ffe718c1433edb04a7fa4.pdf b78f0d8a19f7410cf369cbd654c7073d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of Interviewee: Ray Remus Name of War: World War II Length of Interview (00:39:24) (00:04) Pre-Enlistment • Worked at an ice cream place, making ice cream in the Muskegon area. (00:10) o Moved from Illinois to find work with his sister who owned the ice cream place. (00:33) o Grew up in Gilberts, IL (00:52) o Was rejected from the draft the first time due to his eyesight. (01:04) o Brother got him a job in a grocery store in Florida. (01:16) o Returned home in 1942, received a second draft notification to get another physical examination and passed. (01:25) o Learned about Pearl Harbor while at a bowling alley in Florida and decided to return home. (02:01) (02:55) Basic Training • Was in about six different camps before departing overseas. (02:55) • First went to Fort Warren, WY. (03:05) • Basic training included a lot of drilling and rifle practice. (03:22) • Went to Camp Crowder, MO after basic training. (04:07) • Then went to [Tennessee Maneuvers], between Nashville and Chattanooga. (04:12) • Continued to Camp Pickett, VA for more training (04:23) • Sent to the Mohave Desert in California. (04:34) Returned to Camp Pickett, and then went to Fort Pierce, FL to practice amphibious landings for the invasion of Sicily. (04:40) • Went back to Camp Pickett before heading overseas. (04:55) • Despite rumors, they had no idea where they were being sent. (04:58) • Was not very fearful at the time, figured he would make it out one way or another. (05:24) Service in Italy (05:48) • Outfit went into the town of Scoglitti and eventually through Sicily and into northern Italy. (05:48) • Landed on D-Day after infantry had gone ahead. Remembers seeing several dead Italians alongside the roads. (06:46) • At this time, his job was to drive the ration truck. Had to travel to the Depots at night. Didn’t have much to do during the day. (07:14) • Was never a target, but remembers an explosion at a bonfire. Two men were killed and several were injured, but most had left when the ‘chow whistle’ blew. (07:44) • Went into Italy as far as Rome. (09:05) �• Outfit was a labor battalion, responsible for repairing roads. (09:13) • Worked as a mail clerk for awhile. Considers himself very lucky because he didn’t have to do any heavy labor. (09:22) ‘ • Troops received mostly C rations, which was typically a stew. Wasn’t very good, but it was something to eat. (09:41) • Outfit traveled to Naples to repair the air fields that had been bombed. Some men went to fix the harbor. One of the men had been an engineer and designed a ramp to go over the sunken ships. (10:54) • Were supposed to live in vacant buildings that had been available for a big national fair. However, the Germans eventually bombed them. Describes his experience. (11:47) • Germans had a strong presence in the air during the entire Italian campaign. (13:40) (13:54) North Africa • Outfit was in Naples for about a year before leaving for North Africa by LST. (14:10) • Describes conditions on the LST during their one week trip. (15:52) • Traveled for ten days across North Africa by train. (16:22) • Arrived in the same place they had been to organize their Sicilian invasion around August, 1944. Planned to head to southern France. (17:05) (19:21) Service in France • Traveled up through central France as far as Lorraine, cut into Germany, then headed south near the Bavarian and Austrian boundaries. (19:27) • Unit was behind the lines repairing roads, hospitals, and air fields. (19:47) • Had to travel to various towns as a mail man and company clerk at this time. Was never shot at. (20:21) • There were several air raids, even in France. (20:41) • Didn’t get to meet many civilians because they didn’t speak the language. (20:57) • Had no idea who had the upper hand in the war. (21:28) • Describes his experience being invited to join a French family for dinner. (22:11) • Describes visiting the family 32 years later. (22:48) • Routine didn’t change after VE-day. (27:26) • Left France within a few months of the war ending. Outfit was near the Austrian border when the war ended. Traveled to La Havre to depart. (28:15)(30:24 Post-Service • Got married once he returned home. (30:30) • Went to a trade school in Chicago for two years. (30:42) • Graduated and began working in refrigeration in Elgin, IL for about a year. (31:24) • Moved in with his brother in Florida, working for $1/hour during the winter. (31:57) • Returned home to work in refrigeration for a man that his wife had known. Worked for him for 15 years. (32:27) • Took over the refrigeration business when his boss passed away. Ran the business for 10 years. (32:52) • Was appreciative that going into the service gave him an opportunity to go to �school. (33:07) • Describes revisiting Hitler’s ‘Eagle Nest’ in the Alps, which had been made into a fine restaurant. (35:15) • Has been involved with the VFW Post in Muskegon for two years. Describes his volunteer work. (36:03) • Doesn’t know what he would’ve had without the service, because it gave him the opportunity to get an education, a steady job. (38:40) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RemusR Title A name given to the resource Remus, Ray L. (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Remus, Raymond L. Description An account of the resource Ray Remus, from Gilberts, IL, served in the army during World War II as a mail carrier and company clerk in an engineer unit. His unit traveled throughout Italy, France, and North Africa working to repair roads, hospitals, and air fields. He was in the service for three and a half years, which gave him the opportunity to get an education and a steady job. Today, he is involved with his local VFW Post in Muskegon. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Montagna, Douglas (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-08-12 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/64694bda2815d6befd0dbaeb13de9e5a.mp4 af6f2c935d4a0e94b7e30fcd3507091d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7fcc7a3a0403fecea14c9d1f6fec4833.pdf 09d812f9aa0a2273d73cf1d35b456e0f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam Mike Renner Total Time – (01:25:00) Background • • • • • • • • • He was born in Sigourney, Iowa on October 1, 1950 (00:22) His father held many different jobs and his mother cleaned homes He graduated in 1968 (00:54) He played football in high school and had a job at the local grocery store (01:27) He had four sisters and a brother growing up His father was in the Coast Guard during World War II (01:57) o His father was from Iowa as well When he was in high school he knew a lot about the war (02:55) o It was extremely difficult to get away from the war o “It was everywhere” (03:10) o The news of the war was always on the television Many of the kids that he knew growing up were getting drafted He knew he would not get drafted for quite a while so he decided to enlist (03:44) o There were fourteen boys out of roughly fifty in his graduating class that were involved in the war Enlistment/Training – (04:12) • • • • He enlisted for a two year enlistment (04:20) o He enlisted in the infantry He was put on a bus and was taken to Des Moines, Iowa until he reached Fort Des Moines Station (05:24) o He was processed there for one night o He received his physical there as well  There were many draftees at the Station alongside the enlisted men (05:45)  He did not notice any soldiers trying to get out of the service When he was processed through, it was basically just a physical examination (06:39) All of the branches of the military were in Des Moines (07:22) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • He was then sent from a plane to Fort Polk, Louisiana (08:14) The soldiers landed at Fort Polk around 02:30 A.M. (08:20) When they got off the plane there was a man screaming at them to get in a “Police Call” (08:24) They were forced to march to the processing center o Later they were put into their companies for basic training (09:01) In his company there were five platoons (09:17) o He was in the fourth platoon o There were twenty to twenty-five in each platoon o The entire fifth platoon was Texans (09:35) His school teacher was in his basic training company o He was in the third platoon The racial composition was mixed (10:40) o There were whites, blacks and Mexicans o The majority of the men were draftees (11:03) The morale of the men in the platoon was great (11:34) He was in basic training for eight weeks (11:45) o He learned how to fire a weapon, how to tear the weapon apart, bayoneting drills, and a lot of calisthenics (11:50) He enjoyed basic training There were not any parts of basic training that were particularly difficult (12:15) o The P.E. Test was a little more difficult He trained on the M14 and M16 (13:09) o The soldiers had to qualify for the M16 One of the men went AWOL (Absent Without Official Leave) during basic training (13:37) o He was having marital problems There were soldiers that were in poor shape o There was a “Fat Farm” where they would send the soldiers having problems with the physical training (14:14) All of the drill instructors were extremely serious (15:01) There were mock Vietnamese villages set up during basic training (15:36) After the eight weeks of basic training are over he was assigned an MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) (15:58) o He received the 13 Alpha MOS  It was an artillery assignment He graduated from basic training in the middle of August (16:40) When he went to Fort Sill, Oklahoma, he asked to be changed to infantry (17:35) o He was told that he would remain in the artillery assignment o He had knowledge about the infantry and wanted to have that assignment instead (17:58) His reception at Fort Sill was similar to Fort Polk The next morning they were assigned to their positions o He was assigned to Echo Company 61 (18:43) His training at AIT (Advanced Individual Training) �• • • • • • • • • • o He trained on a 105mm split trail howitzer  When he was in Vietnam he was put on a 155mm split trail and they were extremely different (19:02)  He only had one day on a 155mm during basic training o He enjoyed basic training much more than AIT (19:22) AIT consisted of preparing a howitzer, firing it and closing it back up (19:41) o There was no hands-on training with artillery positions  There told what the positions were but received no actual training (20:01) o There was a lot of boring classroom training  He did not feel that it was relevant (21:01) He graduated on October 10, 1969 He was sent on leave for roughly twenty days before leaving for Vietnam (21:37) His time at Fort Sill was pretty relaxed Many of the men got in trouble because they had so much time on their hands o Soldiers were able to leave the camp around the sixth week there (22:27) He reported in Oakland, California (24:28) During his travels he did not recognize any anti-war protests (24:41) o He did not understand why anyone would want to hassle a soldier (24:58) o He did not understand the hippies – “They thought they had a tough day. They should have been in ‘Nam one day. That’s a tough day.” (25:05) His orders for Vietnam were simply to report and not specific to any unit (25:21) He stayed in Oakland, California for three days doing random activities He flew from Oakland to Hawaii, unloaded and stood at attention, got back on the plane and headed to Vietnam (26:18) o They landed in Long Binh, Vietnam (26:30) Active Duty – First Impressions & Various Firebases – (26:35) • • • His first impression of Vietnam was that it was smelly and hot (26:39) o There were barrels that were burning [human waste with diesel fuel] that smelled terrible o He remembers seeing a small Vietnamese child that had his leg blown off (27:05) o He thought, “What in the hell is this?” When he was at the Replacement depot he was assigned to a work detail o He had to cut Elephant Grass with a machete (27:49) o His name was then called for the 101st Airborne Division (28:00) He was then sent to Phu Bai for SERTS training (Screaming Eagle Replacement Training School) (28:05) o SERTS training taught them how to identify the enemy, booby-traps, how to keep you alive, guard duty, and many more activities o The training was extremely beneficial for his time during the service (29:34) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • He then traveled to Camp Eagle, Vietnam (29:54) o He stayed at Camp Eagle for a few days before being sent to Firebase Rakkasan (30:14) At this point he is assigned to a 155 Split Trail Howitzer Unit (30:23) The artillery battery that he was a part of consisted of six 155’s, FDC (Fire Direction Control), Captain, Lieutenant, Gunners, and Assistant Gunners o There were six men for each gun (31:08) o The FDC would call down firing data for gunmen (31:27)  They called on a field telephone No one had any concerns that they had not been officially trained on the 155’s (32:10) The rounds weighed 98lbs. and a firecracker weighed 118lbs. The ammunition was stored in a bunker (32:38) Firebase Rakkasan had the 105 battery, the infantry was around the perimeter, and mortar men (33:13) The ammunition was brought in by a Chinook (33:27) Every soldier had an M16 – there was an RPG and a M60 machine gun for every gun section (33:53) They served on a two man guard rotation o Everyone except the Section Chief would have to do guard duty The responsibility of the gunner was to set up the right section and quadrant for the gun (35:34) o The gunner had the responsibility to make sure the gun was not fired until he was fully prepared Every gun crew had a Section Chief He left Firebase Rakkasan at the end of February, 1970 (36:15) After he left Firebase Rakkasan he was sent to Firebase Jack (36:18) o The sun was out only one time on Rakkasan o They were extremely wet from the rain o When they were at Firebase Jack, the soldiers were able to dry out and see the sun (36:42) The battery would move by helicopter – they moved by truck one time o The Chinook would pull the guns (37:23) o The units would ride on separate choppers They were on missions nearly every night (37:39) o They shot a lot of H and I’s [harassment and interdiction] and Delta Tango [defensive fires] fire missions (37:55) There were very few times where the infantry units engaged with the enemy The Delta Tango’s were defensive units There was no significant contact with the enemy when he was at Firebase Jack (39:00) He was hit with shrapnel on May 18, 1970 o They had a twenty-four hour ceasefire on this day because it was Buddha’s birthday o The ceasefire was to honor their Vietnamese counterparts (39:33) �• • • • • • • • o Some of the NVA violated the ceasefire and sent RPG’s against the Firebase The level of activity was similar at Firebase Jack (40:13) o They would shoot 40 rounds between five targets – they were always shooting the enemy o There were not many incoming attacks (40:40)  On Firebase Granite there was an attempt by the NVA to take control of the American Firebase (40:53) • There were nine Americans killed in the fight His unit was typically paired with a 105 unit (41:19) At Firebase Granite, the NVA had breached the perimeter (41:28) o The Americans captured an NVA soldier and found out that there were four hundred enemy soldiers preparing to attack the Firebase (41:38) o The Americans called in ARA and Cobra’s They would shoot flares to light up the area (42:30) He did not use a Howitzer His injury from the shrapnel at a previous Firebase was not very serious (43:45) When his wound was being checked out, a Major told him to take five days and go with other wounded soldiers to Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam (44:36) o In Cam Ranh Bay, he relaxed, watched movies, ate three meals a day, body surfed, and enjoyed himself On the firebases he would occasionally get hot meals (44:24) o The other meals were C-rations o There were no mess facilities on the firebases Active Duty – Firebase Ripcord – (46:44) • • • • • • After Cam Ranh Bay he rejoined the battery on Firebase Ripcord (46:48) There was a lot of shooting on Ripcord every day and night While on Ripcord he would shoot over 100 rounds on each mission (47:34) o There were always a lot of rounds to shoot When they first arrived on the firebases, the soldiers would have to build the bunkers and all other facilities (48:21) o They would fill empty 105 ammo boxes with dirt and stack them, place a band over top and then place sand bags on top of that His first impression of Ripcord was that it was “just another firebase.” (49:33) o They “shot and shot and shot” until July 1st when they started receiving returning fire (49:51) o It continued to get more and more intense They shot a lot of high angle rounds (51:12) o The high angle rounds were able to hit the reverse slopes of surrounding hills �• • • • • • • • • • The ammunition was brought into Ripcord by a helicopter and was dropped as close as they could (51:52) o Through July, 1970, they would face heavy fire (52:14) o Every man from his gun would hump ammo o Every morning they would have to clean up and clear away the extra powder (53:09) He was hit by shrapnel when he was taking extra powder to the dump He noticed Firebase Ripcord to increase in activity in the very beginning of July (55:01) o They received incoming rounds on July 4, 1970  They were receiving a lot of mortar rounds (56:10)  There were mortar rounds that landed in their battery area o It was constant mortar rounds He would have to pull perimeter duty when he was on the firebase (56:51) o The crewing was at the six level o Four of the six men were eventually medevaced out His gun was disabled towards the end of July (57:39) o They lost two men in their battery unit The enemy was wearing down the strength of the Americans (58:35) o The soldiers were becoming hungry, thirsty, and angry o The soldiers averaged “cat-naps” (59:01)  There was too much to do to sleep The soldiers did not have a shower for twenty-three days (59:23) His gun was hit after he had been hit with shrapnel for the second time o He was going to dispose of extra powder when a mortar round blew material from the dump (01:00:00) o The material hit him in the arm o He did not have to be medevaced  The doctors were extremely busy (01:00:40) He was chewed out by his sergeant when the mortar destroyed his artillery weapon (01:01:25) o He was yelling at him about “preventative maintenance” o There was not much that he could say to him (01:01:55) o While he was being yelled at, a mortar round hit nearby and killed some of his friends  He pulled one of his friends out of a bunker and found out that he had been killed (01:02:39)  He then saw another friend, picked him up and ran him over to the aid station (01:03:12) o His gun had been completely destroyed o Because many of his men had been medevaced, he stayed and helped carry many of the wounded (01:03:52) There was a Chinook that was hit by a 51 caliber machine gunner and crashed on the base o When it came down, it crashed on a load of ammo (01:05:06) o The fire from the crash destroyed six guns [the entire 105 battery] �• • • o It was a mess (01:06:24) Once his gun was disabled and helped in the aid station, he talked with a captain that told him they expected to be overrun (01:07:23) o They emptied the ammo supply bunker  The attack never came  They were extracted the very next morning (01:07:46) He served as a director on the lower pad of the extraction area (01:08:13) o He told the men to get ready to leave o When the chopper touched down, other men were evacuated instead of him and his men o He later found out that those men had been killed (01:09:30)  One of those men [Lt. Colonel Andre Lucas, the infantry battalion commander on the base] had been given the Medal of Honor He was extracted later that day (01:10:48) o It was July 23 (01:11:30) Active Duty – Remaining Service Time – (01:11:35) • • • • • • • • • From Firebase Ripcord, he ended up at Camp Evans (01:11:40) He was then sent to Camp Eagle (01:12:02) o There was a big party at Camp Eagle  There were dancers, steaks, and ice cold beer  He and some other men grabbed some beers and went to sit on some sand bags (01:12:35)  They did not even want to get drunk • “There was too much to figure out” His battery reorganized at Camp Eagle (01:13:07) He went to Sydney, Australia for R&R o It took him a while to remember how to walk on concrete sidewalks (01:13:39) o He felt like he was losing his mind o He remembers running into one of the chopper pilots at an Australian bar that helped his men off of Ripcord (01:14:22) At the end of his R&R, he was getting bored and wanted to go back to Vietnam Once he returned from R&R he jumped around a few firebases with his battery (01:15:42) In November of 1970, he extended his tour by seventy-five days so that he could get a six month early out o November and December were awful with the monsoons (01:16:26) He was sent to Camp Eagle to process out (01:16:40) o He never had to do the full seventy-five days After he left Camp Eagle, his plane stopped in Japan where he bought a 35mm Canon camera (01:17:27) o They then flew to Fort Lewis, Washington (01:17:37) � They processed in Fort Lewis o He flew from Seattle, Washington and flew home to Des Moines, Iowa on December 22, 1970 (01:18:08) After the Service – (01:18:17) • • • • • • • • • When he returned, he “bummed around and didn’t do a lot of anything” (01:18:43) He slowly eased back into society He was not welcomed home by a lot of people (01:19:02) o Any job application where he wrote that he was a veteran, he would be declined the position (01:19:17) o When he was asked if he was a veteran, he would respond that he was. They would respond with “Well, we just can’t use ya.” (01:19:41) He worked construction for his career (01:20:08) He owns his own construction company o His sons work with him As he reflects on Vietnam, he believes that it taught him to be himself (01:21:08) Vietnam defined his entire life (01:21:42) It took him a long time before he told anyone about his experiences When he went to join a veterans organization, one man said, “I’ll tell you one thing you little son of a bitch, at least we won our war.” (01:23:39) o He immediately left the building � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RennerM1449V Title A name given to the resource Renner, Michael (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Renner, Michael Description An account of the resource Mike Renner was born in Sigourney, Iowa. He enlisted in the Army in 1969 to stay ahead of the draft. After training at Fort Polk, Louisiana, he was sent for artillery training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. Sent to Vietnam in early 1970, he was assigned to Battery A, 2nd Battalion, 11th Field Artillery, a 155mm howitzer unit in the 101st Airborne Division. He served on several different fire bases in the northern part of South Vietnam, including Ripcord, where he served during the siege that took place in July, 1970. His own gun was destroyed by enemy mortar fire during the siege, but he helped out as best he could until the base was abandoned. He remained with his battery for the rest of his tour, and returned home in 1971. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McGregor, Michael (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-10-05 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d4c24ae5f4c6a7dad0d75296bdd97563.mp4 545dc391bd77a6d6b5755330fe43b4ec https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/299438e5db3d5c1a753737e33eb8dfd0.pdf 70866fdf5f04abb26cf7a7250ca78b80 PDF Text Text Rensi, Edward Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II Interviewee’s Name: Edward Rensi Length of Interview: (1:00:28) Interviewed by: James Smither Transcribed by: Maluhia Buhlman Interviewer: “We’re talking today with Edward Rensi of Woodsfield, Ohio and the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Okay, start off with some background on yourself and to begin with, where and when were you born?” I was born in– Pardon me, I was born December the 7th, 1925 in a small town called Parlett. Ohio. Interviewer: “Okay, now did you grow up there or did you move around?” No, in fact my mother came to her mother’s house to have me, you know, and after about six weeks we moved to a small town called Wintersville, Ohio. So actually you might as well say I was raised in Wintersville, Ohio. (00:52) Interviewer: “Alright, and what was your family doing for a living?” My dad was a coal miner and also he was on the rail force for a while, railroad– Basically he was a miner, coal miner. Interviewer: “Okay, so what part of Ohio were you in?” It was the eastern part of Ohio, Jefferson country. �Rensi, Edward Interviewer: “Alright, now did your father have steady work during the depression or was that on and off?” No the depression was rather tough, you know it was really something but we survived and that’s about it. Interviewer: “Okay, and how many kids were in the family?” Just another brother. Interviewer: “Alright, and then do you remember how you heard about Pearl Harbor?” Yes I do, I remember vividly. I was 16 years old and my uncle and dad and cousin we always went fishing walleye and it was– Even though that it was that time of the year we were still fishing for walleye. (2:00) Okay we were fishing and we broke camp, we had a cabin, and we broke camp and we were going home and then we heard over the radio that Japs attacked it and my dad and uncle well they just said– They just said “Well that won’t last long.” And my cousin, he was four years older than I was and they said “Well maybe Jim will go the service but Ed he won’t have to, that’s for sure.” And they just took it as a grain of salt, like most of them they thought the Japs would be a pushover and they would even joke about it say “If we see any Japs don’t forget we’ll run over them.” They were really joking about it, it was really serious. Interviewer: “Alright, now did life change at all after the war started, because it’s gonna be a while before you go in the service yourself?” Yes. Interviewer: “So what changes were there in your community or your area?” Well most things was the regulations, you know naturally since the war they’ve got restrictions and stuff like that you know but other than that it just seemed like what it would be, you know. �Rensi, Edward Interviewer: “Okay, now did you decide to– Did you consider enlisting or did you just wait until Uncle Sam called you?” Well I wanted to enlist right away, you know but my dad and uncle both they just told me to– You know get on me and tell me, in fact after I did sign up for– And I always wanted– They didn’t call me, see I was born in December, okay. So that was the latter part so the draft board didn’t hear any notice from them, you know and I kept telling them “Maybe I ought to go up there and check on it, they’re not calling me yet.” And boy they’d get on me, they’d give me hell they’d say “You just sit tight, they’ll call you.” So finally– They finally did call me. Interviewer: “So when did you get your draft notice?” Well really I can’t tell you when I got my draft notice for sure, you know but I can tell you when I was called up. Interviewer: “Right, yeah.” (4:13) Was March of 14th, 1944. Interviewer: “Okay, okay so at that point now, let’s see were you 19 then or still– Let’s see, you’re still 18.” Yeah, 18 that’s right. Interviewer: “That’s right cause it’ll be December of ‘43 that you turn 18.” I’d be 19 that following– Yeah. Interviewer: “Right, okay so you’re still 18. Okay, so you didn’t really have to wait too long after your 18th birthday. �Rensi, Edward No, not really yeah. Interviewer: “They caught up with you pretty quickly, okay now where did you report to first?” Well first report was small town Cadiz, Ohio and they took us to Cleveland for, you know our introduction there. Interviewer: “Okay, now did you– How did you wind up in the service branch that you joined, I guess which branch of the service did you enter?” The Navy, I was in the Navy but I was considered a selected volunteer. Selected, I have a choice, so I picked the Navy. Interviewer: “Okay, now why did you pick the Navy?” (5:17) Well I just thought it’d be better and my dad and uncle they were like my tutors, you know and they more or less said the Navy because my uncle, the uncle I’m telling you about, he was in World War I and so he probably knew what it was like to be on the ground, you know so he said that and I took it. Interviewer: “Okay, alright so you sign up for the Navy and then where do they send you for training?” Great Lakes Naval Training Station, Chicago. Interviewer: “Okay, alright and how did you get there?” By bus. �Rensi, Edward Interviewer: “Okay so you took a bus from Cleveland to Chicago?” Yeah, yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, so you didn’t take a train to Chicago and then a bus?” Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, alright and describe what basic training was like.” Boy it was something different I’ll tell you that, little country boy you know, once you’re with a group of fellows all at once you know, close quarters you know, and– But I fell in with it you know I thought it would really affect me but I don’t know I just did what I had to do, you know. Interviewer: “Okay, and what kind of stuff did you do in training?” (6:38) Well we’d have a lot of physical running and calisthenics and things like that. Interviewer: “Okay, now it’s the Navy so did you have to learn how to tie knots or that kind of–” Yeah we had– Not too much of that, yeah and we had recognition, you know of enemy ships, aircraft, things like that visual training. Interviewer: “Okay, now did they do a fire fighting drill?” We had that, in fact we went to fire fighting school. Interviewer: “Okay, and what did that consist of?” �Rensi, Edward Well that was something, we went to actual happenings, you know we was in gear and we had nozzles and everything and they had fires like we had to spray in front of us, actual fire training. Interviewer: “Okay, and let’s see did they have you try gas masks or breathing equipment?” Yeah, we had that too, yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, and how did the drill instructors treat you?” With discipline you know, yeah. Interviewer: “But were they, I mean–” They weren’t mean, no. Interviewer: “Okay, so they did things for a reason?” (7:51) Right. Interviewer: “Okay, alright and how long did basic training last?” From March until– Damn there it goes now, let’s see– Interviewer: “Well did you–” Okay after our basic we get on a troop train and about six weeks about it was, so after our basic we get on a troop train and we went to California, called Camp Shoemaker. It was an embarkation point where they gathered and then when they’re ready to ship, when they need people they draw from there. So we were there for, oh I bet you over a month and a half, that was �Rensi, Edward really good duty then. We had it made, nothing to do really, you know so we’d go to Frisco, San Jose, and you know had a good time, you know. Interviewer: “Okay, and how were you able to travel around, did they run buses from the camp?” Yeah buses, yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, alright but you didn’t really have to do– Did you have any work to do, did you ever get KP or clean up the place?” Yeah I’m trying to think what I did, yeah we had to take care of the barracks like that, I think I worked in a post office for a while and also, like I said, we used to have for about six weeks or maybe more than that, we even went to Oakland and tried to get a job, get some extra spending money, that was great. Interviewer: “Alright so by the– So when then do you actually ship out, that’s in June?” (9:43) Yeah, yeah had to be June, yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, and what kind of ship do you go on?” It was a troop transport but I can’t tell you the name of it now. Interviewer: “Do you have an idea of how many men were on it?” Oh there was– Had to be 12 to 1,400 at least. Interviewer: “Okay, now was this like a Liberty Ship or a Victory Ship or was it bigger than that?” �Rensi, Edward It might’ve been called a U.S.S. Scott but I wouldn’t say that’s right or not but something like that, it was a big one yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, now and then when you left San Francisco did people get seasick?” Oh boy, that was one of the bad features, I’ll tell you that was– That wasn’t a very good experience on that troopship just like flies packed on, and boy you got there in the morning first thing you want to do is get the hell up on the top deck cause boy there’s– And it’s all kinds of spray and everything you know from everybody– Not everyone but everyone was really heaving. Interviewer: “Alright, so did you get seasick?” Yes. Interviewer: “Okay, a lot of guys say they don’t and I’m never sure I believe them, so okay that’s one for you. Alright, and did your ship sail with an escort or were you by yourself?” (11:10) Oh yeah, yeah we had an escort, yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, and then so when you leave California, what’s your next stop?” Eniwetok, Marshall Islands. Interviewer: “Okay, so you don’t get to visit Hawaii or anything like that.” Well no not in a troop transport like that, we– Directly there. Interviewer: “Alright, let’s see now when you go out to Eniwetok, let’s see did you cross the equator or the dateline yet?” �Rensi, Edward Well when we did cross, this was when– Let me think now. Interviewer: “Well because when you’re a troop transport I don’t know if they mark that kind of thing.” No, I think after we got to Eniwetok when we headed back to the Marshall– I mean Saipan the Marianas, I think that’s the time we went through the equator and then that’s when we went through that ceremony, that was something I’ll tell you man. Interviewer: “Okay, alright so let’s kind of back up, so basically– Do you have a sense of how long it took you to get from San Francisco to Eniwetok?” No I don’t, it’s probably in my cruise book but I don’t know. Interviewer: “Okay, and what was the weather like once you–” The weather must have been normal because, you know nothing stood out in my memory about the weather, yeah. (12:37) Interviewer: “Alright, and did people get used to being at sea? So did they stop all getting sick or did people–” Yeah, before we got there it tapered off, yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, alright and when you get to Eniwetok do you get to go ashore?” Oh no, no, no, no. Interviewer: “Okay, probably not a lot to do there anyway but–” �Rensi, Edward Yeah, right. Interviewer: “Okay, so how long do you think you were in port at Eniwetok?” Well not very long, when we got on the ship they had just rope ladders and we had to climb up the rope ladders with our gear, you know to get on the ship. Interviewer: “Okay, so what ship were you assigned to?” That’s when I got to California. Interviewer: “Okay, and describe the California, if someone doesn’t know what that was, what kind of ship was it?” It’s a battleship and it was 600 and some feet long– I’ve got the tons and everything, it had a 14 inch main battery and five inch 20 millimeters and 40 millimeters armaments, so it was heavily armed you know. (13:45) Interviewer: “Alright, and what kind of history did it have?” Well it’s– It was an old ship and it was at Pearl Harbor December the 7th, it was partially sunk, it was brought up and taken back to Bremerton, Washington and retreated, and that was it. Interviewer: “Okay, alright and so you’re now joining the ship’s complement.” Yes. Interviewer: “Okay, and when you join the California, what is your job when you get there?” �Rensi, Edward Well at first cleaning compartments, you know our division, it was division A, we were assigned to our division and cleaning compartments for a while, you know and I can’t tell you how long before I was assigned to the air compressors, wasn’t very long. One of the other fellas that was there before, you know petty officers, would take me under his wing and teach me that. Interviewer: “Okay, so when you came on there– Because you didn’t have any specialized training at all.” Oh no. Interviewer: “You were just an ordinary seaman.” Oh a little kid, yeah. Interviewer: “Yeah, okay now what proportion of the crew do you think were new guys, were there a lot of young guys there?” (15:03) That’s a good question, I’d say that basically we were just replacements, you know and I’d say with a small percentage at that time, small percentage. Interviewer: “So a lot of the crewmen had been with the ship for a while?” Oh yes, yes definitely, yeah. Interviewer: “Alright, okay so you join the ship and then you head out to sea and where are you going when you leave Eniwetok?” Well there’s Saipan, finishing up Saipan. Interviewer: “Right, so you’re going up to the Marianas. So this is the point then when you cross the equator and you have the ceremony?” �Rensi, Edward It had to be before that, between that Eniwetok and gone back to Marianas, I’ll have to look it up but definitely. Yeah that was quite a thing, you know you become a shell back then, boy you take a beating then too I’ll tell you that is some ceremony, I’ll tell you and then we crossed the equator more than once. The second time we were shellback, you know we were cocky, you know you could even come to an officer then like me being a fireman first– Second class man and make him do simple things, you know that was something. Interviewer: “Okay, so it’s kind of like a giant fraternity hazing?” Oh yeah we’re really hazing and not to forget one time this officer he was really cocky and he didn’t want to go through it, you know he tried to say stop. They had a gauntlet, a bunch of seamen like that and they had canvas bags soaked– You know they’d be soaked with water and you’d run through that and you better run damn fast because they beat the hell out of you and this guy tried to fight it, this officer, they got him down and beat the hell out of him. (17:00) Boy and everybody was just clapping because he was trying to be a big time officer, but they had to go through it too, and you had to cross through a sleeve, a big canvas sleeve and they had a fire hose, when you’d come out it hit you and they had all kinds of stuff in there like gooey stuff, you had to crawl through there and as soon as you come out they hit you with the fire hose and knock you right down, it was quite a ceremony. Interviewer: “Right, okay so you survived all that.” Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, so when you got to the Marianas did the ship do any firing there?” Oh yeah that’s what is was we was– Shit, I want to say we were shelling– At first it was, it was Saipan, Tinian, then Guam and we’d just soften the beach that’s our battleship’s main objective to shell the beach and one time we had a sugar refinery and one time we had an ammunition �Rensi, Edward dumping, you know that was odd to make it a little easier for the Marines when they landed, you know. Interviewer: “Right, okay and the fighting on Saipan went on for a while, I mean Guam and Tinian were pretty quick.” Yeah. Interviewer: “So did you do any ground support– Did you do any supporting fire after the Marines landed on Saipan or were you pretty much done after landing?” No it was pretty much just more of, you know just cruising, you know yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, now when you were in the Marianas did you see any Japanese aircraft?” (18:45) You know I don’t think we did, we had a couple bogeys, I remember that first– About one of the first– The first month I was there we had a couple at– What a bogey is is that when something’s reported unknown and you know then you go to battle stations, you know and I remember the first bogey I got hair stood up on my– Because I had a battle station and you know I kept wondering when [unintelligible] Little concerned, you know? Interviewer: “Okay, so a bogey would be an enemy aircraft or at least an unknown aircraft?” Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, now where was your battle station?” �Rensi, Edward I was in the– They say [unintelligible] like a 20 millimeter group, that’s where 20 millimeter guns are and right off the side they’ve got like a little compartment with an opening and my job was to hand out the magazines when they needed them. Interviewer: “Right, okay so you’re basically– You’re kind of– You’re not quite a loader but you were moving the ammunition, giving ammunition to the loaders.” Yeah, right but I never had to do it, yeah. Interviewer: “Alright, okay so that’s kind of your introduction, now how much noise do the battleship guns make?” How much what? Interviewer: “How much noise do the big guns make?” (20:10) You’ll never believe it, you better have cotton and ear plugs, nowadays they got [unintelligible] but boy it is something, and oh damn when it was the main batteries ship, 14 inches the whole ship rocks, yeah. Interviewer: “Yeah, I think after the war a lot of the gunners had hearing problems.” Oh yeah, I’ll bet a lot of them did, no kidding. Interviewer: “Okay, so after the Marianas do you go back to the Marshalls or what do you do after Saipan?” Let’s see now– Now we were around the Philippines then I think. Interviewer: “Well Philippines that starts I think in October, so you go–” �Rensi, Edward Let’s see, September– Interviewer: “Now there’s a point in the ship’s history where you had– The California had a collision with the Tennessee?” Oh yeah, that’s it we had a– In fact I was on watch I was on watch that night with, I had the phones on you know and main control says– You know they’ve told us that “We’re having trouble, the Tennessee is having steering problems, stand by.” You know and pretty soon they said “Stand by for crash!” And I yelled it, you know so everybody would be up cause a lot of times even though we’re under gun mounts like that guys are laying down, you know through night time and so everybody jumped up and got ready and they hit us you know and they tore a big hole in our, starboard side? I think it was starboard side, tore a big hole up there and it killed several boys up there too, it ripped a big hole in there. Interviewer: “Alright, and then how much of a shock was it, you’re standing at your station, did you get knocked over, did you hang on?” (22:10) It wasn’t really abrupt it was real just– Saw it like you know boom boom! Like that you know it wasn’t like– Interviewer: “Okay, so it was kind of almost grinding into the hull rather than a big crash.” You could hear it coming, yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, so after the collision where did you go? Where did you go to get the ship fixed?” Yeah, after that went to a place called Espiritu Santos, it's New Hebrides Islands, they had a floating dry dock there, a little one you know so they passed us up there. �Rensi, Edward Interviewer: “Alright, and then while you were in the New Hebrides did they let you go ashore there?” Yeah, oh yeah they had a place they called– I forget what it was, anyhow we had it nice there we could go ashore, have a beer, throw a football, play softball so we were there– I can’t tell you how long, I can’t remember, but we enjoyed ourselves there. Interviewer: “Yeah, okay so you get a little bit of a break and– But then your next combat mission then is going to be for the invasion of the Philippines.” Philippines, that’s where it was, yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, so when you leave the New Hebrides where do you go to join the fleet or do you meet them just approaching the Philippines? Did you go to the Marshalls or Palau or any of those places?” (23:45) I think Palau, I think. Interviewer: “Yeah because we use that as a launching pad.” Yeah that’s where we got– Yeah I think that’s where it– And then the Philippines, yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, alright now at this time have you– Has your job on the ship changed, because initially you’re up there and you’re helping the gunners?” Yeah, yeah oh yeah, no I’m back in the compressors yeah, we’re with the compressors then. Interviewer: “Okay, so describe a little bit what your regular job was.” In doing battle stuff like that we’re with the compressors you know, and one time to show you how much that main barrel could shoot you– Like that we had a leak and boy on our compressors �Rensi, Edward you know, we had water lines up. Boy that was hectic everybody’s running around we finally– Had wrenches and stuff and we finally got it stopped, you know so that was exciting there that time. Interviewer: “Okay, now what were the compressors for?” Well the low pressure compressor was just for general usage around the ship just when we needed a little air, like air tools and stuff like that. Interviewer: “Okay so just for power tools.” Intermediate would be for heavier equipment stuff like that but the high compressor– High pressure compressors they would– When a main battery would shoot you they had to blow all that gas and stuff out like that. (25:28) They had to be damn sure that was out of there because if they go and try to reload, put a powder keg in there when there was heat there’d be a misfire. So had to blow that out, that was important. Interviewer: “Okay so you’re doing ventilation and you’re providing power for air compressor tools and a lot of other things but you need to push a lot of air.” Right. Interviewer: “Okay, you’re gonna run in with a ship that big in particular that would be a lot. Okay and then so was your job– What were you actually doing when you’re on watch with the compressors, are you just looking at dials?” Yeah, right, yeah you have to have gauges and make sure everything is okay you know. Yeah and then you had your station, naturally you had to keep it spotless you know, that wasn’t too bad joining the action unit because regulation was secondary then you know. �Rensi, Edward Interviewer: “Alright, now your ship gets involved in some serious fighting in the Philippines.” Yeah. Interviewer: “There’s a battle in the area called the Surigao Straits.” Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, now what do you remember about that?” Oh boy I remember– Before it happened the chaplain got on the ship and told us about these cities, he said “We’re gonna have the engagement area.” He said and he actually said this cause it’s in the book, he said that “Make sure you’re clean, you have a shower and clean clothes on because there could be infection.” You know he said that, you know really. (27:05) So there’s probably logic to that really, so anyhow we got thinking– Well I got thinking “Damn” seeing everything it made you think, little scary for a while. Interviewer: “Alright, and then when the battle happens what was your experience of it, are you just down in the hole?” Yeah I was in– Then I was– Interviewer: “Were you with the high power compressors or?” I was with the high power compressors then you know and so I was way down in the hole, down, way down, way back. So I couldn’t hear much or see much you know, thankful you know, so I was glad it was all over. Interviewer: “Do you have an idea of how long the battle actually lasted?” �Rensi, Edward You know what, no I don’t think it lasted that long to me. Interviewer: “Probably not.” I kept thinking “Boy oh boy when the hell will these lines break?” Interviewer: “So at that point you’re just doing your job, now could you feel sort of the rumblings of all the guns firing, do you get some vibration?” Yeah there’s some vibration even down there yeah, but not like it would be if you were up on top. Interviewer: “Right, okay so what did they tell you about the battle afterwards?” Oh after it was over they come on the P.A system and said “Secure, battle stations secure.” You know you get to relax and, you know. (29:00) Interviewer: “And then at what point do you find out what actually happened?” Well we didn’t know– You know we did get credit for, I think it was a cruiser? Interviewer: “Cruiser or an old battleship because the Japanese had a bunch of old battleships there and cruisers, so you think you sank something.” Yeah, we got scoreboard for something out there and we– See we were the old type too and the other type– Interviewer: “The Iowa class.” Yes, the Iowa class they were new but we did our part. �Rensi, Edward Interviewer: “Right, okay now after that battle did you go up to Leyte Gulf or did you go up to the area where the landings were?” Yeah, we had to yeah, right. Interviewer: “Yeah because there’s pictures of that I think in the ship’s book but by then the landing has already taken place and the battle was already fought there because that was the area where the destroyer escorts and things were fighting the big Japanese ships.” Okay, yeah. Interviewer: “Yeah, and then–” Okay, no we– Yeah. Interviewer: “And that was going on while you were having your battle?” (30:18) Yeah, right. Interviewer: “Right, okay and so you– So this is now October of ‘44, do you just stay in the Philippines area or do you go away and come back? Because you’re engaged with Lingayen Gulf and that’s January.” That was January, I remember that yeah. Interviewer: “So November, December, do you remember where you had Christmas 1944?” You know I think that’s when we were in the Philippine area but there wasn’t any action cause, you know, because I remember we had a good Christmas and a real good meal, no interruptions, and so that must’ve been that going until we got to Lingayen Gulf, that was January. �Rensi, Edward Interviewer: “Yeah, okay let’s talk a little bit about life on the ship, what was your daily schedule like?” Well we’d go to our stations of course, you know and we always had– Just always things to do, shine up and stuff, and the main thing is you make sure everything’s operating, that was the biggest thing. Just like a watch, you know it’s like a watch you know. Interviewer: “Well how long would the watch be when you’re on duty?” About four hours. Interviewer: “Okay so you have four hours on, and then–” And then maybe eight hours off, you know and then you’d start and sometimes you’d get to four, well we had different times for then you know different ones. (32:00) 12 to four, four to eight and stuff like that and then also after a while too every once and a while we’d have to clean the compartment be like us firemen’s second one we’d have to clean the compartment for a while, take turns you know swab it and you know, so we worked. Interviewer: “Alright, now did you have your own bunk or did you have to share?” No, we had our own bunks. They were, you know tiered, you know like– You know like three bunks here, here, and here and then they folded up during the day, folded up and had your flies cover over it you know then you had the passageway. Interviewer: “Alright, and how much head room did you have, how much space was there?” Not too much, you know I was on the bottom bunk a couple times and you’d, I guess you’d hit the top, wasn’t too much you know. �Rensi, Edward Interviewer: “Alright, and how do they feed you?” What? Interviewer: “How do they feed you, what was the food like and how did you get it?” I never complained about the food too much, you know but a lot of them did you know, but we had baked beans sometimes. Our food– That’s one thing we always had food and that what was in the engagements you know and then we would have whatever we had after that you know, but no I won’t complain about the food. Interviewer: “Okay, but you had your own cooks–” Oh yeah. Interviewer: “And that kind of thing.” (33:31) Oh yeah and have chow lines, you go and line up for chow line you try to get up there as quick as you could, if you didn’t the chow line would be from here to about maybe a couple hundred feet long or so. Interviewer: “Okay, yeah I mean how many men were in the ship’s complement?” A total of 1,200 I think, yeah 1,200. Interviewer: “Alright, so then if you’re in the wrong part of the line that can be bad, even if you’re eating in shifts.” Yeah, and I forget how many officers there were, you know. �Rensi, Edward Interviewer: “Okay, alright so and then did you have– I mean did they show movies on the ship or have other entertainment?” Oh yeah, I mean when we were out of the battlezone, oh yeah. They would have, they called them smokers you know, and they even had movies certain times, and had boxing matches sometimes. In fact one of the chief petty officers in our division wanted to train me to box but I backed out. Interviewer: “Yeah, that'd be a good idea. Okay, alright yeah so and then I guess how many men would sleep in the same compartment?” Good question, well I’d say the whole division would be. Interviewer: “Okay, so that’s like 40 guys, 50 guys?” See our A division wasn’t that big, you saw the pictures. (35:04) Interviewer: “Yeah, that’s true. Okay, alright and of course you would sleep at different times right because some of you are on watch and some of you aren’t?” Yeah. Interviewer: “Yeah, so not too bad. Okay, alright so you have a relatively routine life there for a while after the Leyte battles and then basically describe what happens at Lingayen Gulf.” In Lingayen Gulf? Interviewer: “Yeah.” �Rensi, Edward Yeah we were there and I think it was January the 6th, I looked at the book before, I think it was January 6th and that’s when– That’s when that suicide plane hit us. Interviewer: “And what part of the ship did it hit?” It happened at the superstructure around one of the upper control towers and it was really something. Interviewer: “And that was close to your old battle station?” Well yeah, I mean you know when it hit like that the gas and flames and everything, all that stuff would come down that way you know if it was higher it would’ve hit, you know I was like here and it was up here more than superstructure where he hit. Interviewer: “And what happened to the man who replaced you?” (36:30) Well he was burnt real bad, I mean he didn’t die but he was burnt real bad, but maybe without that maybe I wouldn’t have been there, he was sticking out or something, anyhow I was at the same station. Interviewer: “Okay, now when it hit you were down below right? When the kamikaze hit you were down at your duty station?” Yeah I was in my clip room. Interviewer: “Okay, alright and then did you feel or hear anything when it hit?” Oh no I think– Oh when it hit yeah. No I just, you could tell something happened you know I’d gotten– The information center put out you know we were hit, you know and you could hear stuff going back and forth but you could, you know but yeah. �Rensi, Edward Interviewer: “Now was the damage just to that one part of the ship where it hit? So you didn’t have big fires or–” Oh yeah, oh mammoth fires you know the stuff, oh so many guys got burnt– God, you see those guys and you talk about blisters, they had blisters like that on them, see them laying around, it was after [unintelligible] of course, you know and boy what a smell, flesh. Interviewer: “Alright, and did it take a while to put the fires out? Was there–” They did a good job, yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, now did you just stay at your post the whole time?” Oh yeah, I was under that guy giving me orders. I wasn't topside, I was– Yeah, we just stayed in our place. Interviewer: “Okay, and then so afterwards now the plane has been hit, you put the fires out, now what does the ship do?” (38:38) Well I don’t know where they went then, you know I don’t know probably had to go out someplace, you know. Interviewer: “Well you had to go someplace to get repairs right?” Oh yeah, I mean so then after that naturally we– After we get squared away I don’t know how long it took we headed back to the states to get patched up in Bremerton, Washington. Interviewer: “Washington or Mare Island? Did you go to Washington or to California?” No, went to Washington. �Rensi, Edward Interviewer: “Okay, alright– Alright and how long did you spend there do you think?” I’ll bet you we were there at least two months, two and a half months. Interviewer: “And now while you were there did you stay off the ship or were you still quartered on the ship?” We were still on the ship and the yardbirds, that’s what they call the workers yard birds, you know they work– Do their work but we– And we would go to get liberty and we’d go to Seattle a lot of times, you know we would get on the ferry from Bremerton to go to Seattle which was a nice, nice city. Interviewer: “Okay, now how did the people there treat the sailors?” What in Seattle? Interviewer: “Yeah.” (40:00) Good, good. Interviewer: “Okay, how about in Bremerton?” Good, well I’ll tell you one thing there was a restaurant there run by– I don’t know if they were Jap or some kind of oritental– Interviewer: “Probably Chinese.” Chinese maybe, okay and then he had a couple of beautiful daughters all us guys trying to go there trying to pour the– I’ll tell you what they didn’t appreciate us doing that, yeah. Interviewer: “Alright, now did some of the guys get drunk and get in trouble or?” �Rensi, Edward Oh you never heard of a sailor getting drunk did you? Interviewer: “Just once and a while.” Yeah, even though we had– Hitting it pretty heavy, that’s the first time I was ever around it, the first time I had a beer was when I was in the Navy. Oh yeah, that was something, I never got in any trouble. Interviewer: “Okay, alright but and then you’re getting kind of– Now did you think the war might be over before you got back into it?” No I don’t think– We hoped it would be you know and then you know that’s when Iwo Jiwa was there, you know we missed Iwo Jima. Well that was bad and after that was over we started feeling a little better, you know we thought– You know in that respect about the war being over, not about– Yeah. (41:31) Interviewer: “Okay, so when did the ship leave Washington then? Is it now in April or–” Yeah, boy that was down in that book more. Interviewer: “Okay, let’s see well you went to Okinawa right?” Yeah, yeah from Bremerton we went to– From Bremerton went to Long Beach, I think Long Beach, California and then we had a shakedown cruise, you know just to make sure everything’s okay you know and then there went back to Okinawa, yeah. Interviewer: “Alright, and when you go to Okinawa had the battle already started?” Oh yeah, yeah we got there I’d say in the latter phase of it yeah, but we were there you know we still done some bombarding and stuff but yeah we go there. �Rensi, Edward Interviewer: “Alright, now did your ship have problems with kamikazes at Okinawa, I mean did you get attacked by air?” No, not to speak of no, but they had a lotta trouble, a lotta trouble but that was more or less for the destroyers and smaller craft you know, yeah. Interviewer: “Yeah I think they were targeting the transport ships and things like that. Okay, so now while you’re there and you’re off Okinawa are you getting any news or any information about what’s happening in that battle or do you just do your job and mind your own business?” Yeah from time to time we’d get reports, yeah. Yeah in fact they would have like a bulletin time on the ship you know and they would have some write ups about so and so and they would have some write ups about the ETO, you know so we’d know what was going on in the ETO you know, so that was– (43:30) Interviewer: “Okay, now were you still in the states when Germany surrendered cause that would’ve been May, early May, of ‘45?” May of ‘45. Interviewer: “Cause you might have made it to Okinawa by then or you might have still been–” May of ‘45. Interviewer: “But you remember hearing about Germany surrendering?” Yeah, I know what you mean yeah, you know I can’t tell you. �Rensi, Edward Interviewer: “Okay, alright now the other thing that happened along the way a little bit before that President Roosevelt died.” Yeah. Interviewer: “You remember hearing about that?” Oh yeah, that was big and that came on the PA system, yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, alright so you’re there for the latter part of the battle of Okinawa and that’s over officially in early June or something like that. Now did you stay around Okinawa for the rest of the war or did you go someplace else?” Well we stayed around till the– Till they occupied Japan and then we stayed there and we covered the troops for the land unit, the troops you know? They had a big deal that was big [unintelligible] that was something big. So we covered the troops and then after that we sort of– We anchored of course after that for a while and then we got to go to shore. (45:00) So I got to go ashore twice, once in Tokyo and another province in Japan I got to go. So I was really fortunate because most of them only got to go one time but this one time this other person didn’t want to go so I said I’d go, so I got to go twice. Interviewer: “Okay, so when you went ashore what did you see?” Just observe you know, what would tickle me this one province we went to we saw these little kids, they were so cute running around and they had like a big bamboo, a big long bamboo stick and it had tar on it and they would catch dragonflies on it, you know and they’d get the dragonflies and they’d tie a thread around them and they go around with a dragonfly with a thread on it. It was clever the way they did it, you know. Interviewer: “Alright, how much– How did the Japanese people behave towards you?” �Rensi, Edward Someone asked me that the other day, when we went to Tokyo we’d walk along, you know– You know there’s still some people in those little huts you know, shacks and stuff and some of the, couple of them, even had a bottle and was grinning at you like that you know but we had strict orders: Do not fraternize, do not have anything to do with them, don’t even talk to them. You know but we don’t know maybe they were grinning, you know but what were they thinking, maybe once you take a drink that would be it, you know, we never did. Interviewer: “Alright, and how much evidence did you see of the bombing?” Oh it was something, in Tokyo you know there was different sections, you wouldn’t see anything but these big safes. So it’s a big long safe you know, you see them in different places that’s all you see and just dog burned out but that was it, the leveled it, but still there was places on Ginza Street where it still had some stores open, stuff like that. There were some sections but basically the most of the parts we’ve seen, boy they were really, I mean hit. Of course they were known for that. Their structures weren’t, you know weren’t really– (47:24) Interviewer: “Well they were made of wood and paper.” Yeah, yeah, that’s it yeah. Interviewer: “Yeah so a lot of that burnt and there were some areas that we avoided targeting so they didn’t bomb the Imperial Palace and they mostly didn’t bomb the Ginza and that kind of thing. Now when you went into the other province was that more in the countryside?” Yeah, right, yeah it was different. Interviewer: “Okay, and there was less damage there?” Right, yeah wasn’t too much there, yeah. �Rensi, Edward Interviewer: “Okay, now were you allowed to go into any of the stores or restaurants?” Oh yeah, in fact I bought some things like I’ve got a few things for my mom and I forget just what I did get, there wasn’t too much really but there was a few things you know. Interviewer: “Okay, now when you first got to Japan were you in Tokyo Bay at the time when they signed the surrender agreements?” Oh no, no. Interviewer: “You came in later.” Yeah, yeah we did. Interviewer: “Okay, now to back up a little bit do you remember hearing about the atomic bomb?” (48:23) Yes. Interviewer: “And what kind of response was there to that or did you understand what that meant?” Well really I don’t think it soaked in right away, you know we just thought well “The war’s over boy oh boy!” We didn’t realize, you know what it actually, you know– It was sad really but it’s war, war is war you know. Interviewer: “But when you first heard about the bomb did you think that would win the war?” Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. �Rensi, Edward Interviewer: “Okay, now aside from going to Japan did you sail anywhere else in the far east, did you go across to China or anywhere else?” Well after the war was over– Do you wanna hear about that? Interviewer: “Yeah.” Well after the war was over we was heading back– No we was on a goodwill tour which was great. Okay now we went to the Philippines in Lingayen Bay where that area happened, some of that stuff happened we stopped and had– Interviewer: “Did you have a memorial service?” Yeah, yep couldn’t– We had a couple of services and then there we went to Singapore and we were there for a couple days and got ashore which was really great. That was beautiful Singapore and there where people wouldn’t pay any attention to you, man I’ll tell you boy they would shun you. (50:15) Anyhow it was really nice and then from there we went to Ceylon which is Sri Lanka now, you know changed and it was really nice to and we got to go ashore a couple of times and we went with– The British were there and they had these, what they called their truck lorries, you know their big vans, big troop trucks. So we got in one of those one day and they took us inland in Ceylon to the capital Colombo you know, and it was really scenic because it was hilly you know and you would see all kinds of elephants and different people and rice paddies. It was really something and after that we went to Cape Town, South Africa, beautiful boy that was something. We got ashore there a couple of times, up on Tabletop Mountain and you take– Especially me a little kid, you know never left the county, hardly you know and boy I’ll tell you that really impressed me and we enjoyed that. So we had a wonderful time after the war coming home, now we landed in Philadelphia. Interviewer: “Okay, so you cross the Atlantic then come back.” �Rensi, Edward Yeah actually we– Oh how do you say that? We circumnavigated the globe, we really did the entire round like that and then we were in Philly from December the– I think we pulled into the states December the 7th we had planned it so we– December the 7th, you know and we were in Philly from December the 7th until May the 5th, 1946, so I had a good time in Philadelphia too, so I was one of the lucky boys I survived and had some good times. Interviewer: “Okay, so the ship was just sitting in the harbor at Philadelphia at that point for all that time?” Yeah and our job was clearing mothballs you know we had to get down and we’d be at work then and we had to get down in the bilges and scrape and put chromate paint and, you know get ready for mothballs and they get it ready for mothballs, they keep it for a couple years, and then they scrap it. Interviewer: “Right, yeah because it was an old battle ship.” Oh yeah, they should’ve scrapped it but I just was– You think they had to say “Well she did a good job, just let her go.” (52:40) You know but they put all that expense into it you know but that's right, so that was it. Interviewer: “Okay, now if you think back over the time you spent on the ship are there other memories that stand out for you that you haven’t talked about yet, other things that happened or people you knew?” Yeah there’s like some other band members you know, I haven’t thought about them you know. Interviewer: “So how much work did the band do, did they play regularly?” Yeah they played, yep and they’d even go like when we would go they would– Like when we went to Espiritu Santo they played there and sometime I think they went ashore in the Philippines one time, and we went ashore in the Philippines sometime they called it Osmensa �Rensi, Edward Beach, you know he was a politician or something for something Ahmanson and they all had all kinds of crass you know for us boys to come by. I bought a big ‘ole hat one time and bought stuff like that and you could go and buy, you know things like that. So we’d got out on shore then and I think about this one boy, he was a singer in the band and– Tell Washington he used to Linda Darnell, she was a movie star you know, I don’t know if that’s was right or wrong maybe he did cause he was from California and he was a singer you know, but he was killed. So I thought about that you know cause– And there’s a guy called Harry Gin and he was an Indian from one of the Dakotas and he was one of the guys on our Tennessee he was up there, he got– Oh there’s different things come flashing back at you, you know. Interviewer: “Okay, now you brought along a few artifacts here and maybe you can kind of show them and explain what they are, so we’ll start with this one.” Oh that’s a Navy blue dress hat, it was part of our uniform you know. Interviewer: “Can you hold it up a little bit higher? Hold it up a little bit higher like that, yeah. Okay so that’s part of the dress uniform.” (55:26) Yeah, blues, yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, so how often did you wear it?” Well it depends where we was, what zone you’re in, if you’re in a zone that’s real hot we had whites, usual whites. This is the hat, this is in other times but basically this is most of the time, this would be, you know like in California or something like that you know. Interviewer: “Alright, okay and then here we’ve got–” That’s a whites yeah. �Rensi, Edward Interviewer: “Not quite as white as it used to be but alright, so that’s sort of the shirt part and then here. Now are these– Is that from the dress uniform?” Yeah this is dress blues. Interviewer: “Okay, a little higher, yeah.” And see they had that, there’s supposed to be 13 buttons there for the 13 original colonies. Interviewer: “Okay, so it’s all across the front.” Yeah. Interviewer: “Alright, let’s see and then just a blanket here?” Yeah that was my cover blanket. (56:32) Interviewer: “Just a sort of standard issue, blanket material. Alright so– See how I’m doing here. Okay, so once you get out, you make it to ‘46, you’re discharged from the Navy, what do you do after that do you just go home?” Yeah, when I got out in 1946 I naturally came home and then I didn’t do anything for a while and then I went to Michigan, Detroit, Michigan you know in 194– Later part of ‘46, anyhow and I got a job in auto plants and I stayed there for a while and I had this one job in an assembly line for Dodge Motor’s you know and they changed models in August, so they laid me off. So I serve for just maybe three or four months, and I really liked that job but then I mean I got laid off, I went over to the Ford Motor Company and got a job over there, and I stayed there for several months and then then my dad called me and he told me he could get me a job in the coal fields and I’m a country boy you know so I come back home, which better off I stayed there really. She’s still here, she heard that, oh boy. Anyhow I come back and got a job in the coal fields you know. �Rensi, Edward Interviewer: “Now when you say coal fields are they doing strip mining there or is it underground?” Well yeah strip mining, open, I got a job there you know and I worked there for five years, I was in supply house in charge of supplies and after that I got a job as a purchasing agent and I stayed there for five years and then the company sold the mine, but the company sold the mine I work for they kept me on and sent me down the deep mines, you know down in different locations and I was down there for– I was there for– When they sent me to the deep mines they put me in charge of the supply house and I was there for 12 years, and then I retired in 1985. Interviewer: “Alright, let’s see and when did you get married?” Wait no, let me think. Got married May 13th, 1950. Interviewer: “Did he get that right?” (59:43) Off camera voice: “Right.” Interviewer: “Okay, good, okay seal of approval there. Alright, okay and to think back on it I guess to the time you spent in the service how do you think that affected you or what did you learn from that?” I think it made me realize a lot, you know what life’s all about and it can be short but overall it was really a great experience, really. Interviewer: “Alright, well it makes for a good story so thank you very much for taking your time to share it today.” Oh boy, I survived! �Rensi, Edward � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RensiE2306V Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rensi, Edward C. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-03 Title A name given to the resource Rensi, Edward (Interview transcript and video), 2019 Description An account of the resource Edward Rensi was born on December 7, 1925 in Parlett, Ohio, and grew up in Wintersville. He received his draft notice on March 14, 1944 when he was eighteen years old and chose to enlist in the Navy. He was then bussed to Great Lakes Naval Training Station near Chicago for Boot Camp. After graduating Boot Camp, Rensi was trained off to Camp Shoemaker, California, where he awaited assignment. In June of 1944, he was shipped out on a troop transport ship from San Francisco to the Marshall Islands. Rensi was then assigned to the USS California. His duty was to clean compartments aboard the ship as well as maintain the ship’s air compressor units. The California sailed to Saipan and then up to the Mariana Islands. Offshore from Saipan and the Marianas, the California fired shells upon the beaches, inland factories, and Japanese ammunition dumps in support of the ground troops. Rensi was on watch the night the California collided with the USS Tennessee, after which he sailed to Espiritu Santo, Vanuatu Island, for repairs. The California was then prepared and redeployed from Palau to support the invasion of the Philippines. In the Lingayen Gulf, the California was struck below the upper control towers by a Japanese kamikaze plane, above Rensi’s former battle station, causing severe fires and damage to sailors and ship alike. After two months of repairs in Bremerton, Washington, the USS California traveled back to California before redeploying to Okinawa in the late spring of 1945. With the end of the war, the California anchored near Japan and Rensi was able to make it ashore twice. He recalled visiting Tokyo and a postwar memorial service in the Philippines, as well as taking other trips to Singapore, Sri Lanka, and Cape Town, South Africa. The California returned to the United States in December of 1945, docking in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, where the crew prepared it for scrapping. Rensi was then discharged on May 5, 1946 and proceeded to drift around before deciding to move to Detroit, Michigan, for work on the automobile assembly lines. He was laid off several times and eventually went to work in the coal fields near his hometown before retiring in 1985. Reflecting upon his time in the service, Rensi believed the Navy was a tremendous experience, teaching him the value and meaning of life. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States—History, Military Veterans Video recordings Afghan War, 2001-2021—Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/mp4 Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f482289f41412491511f6803efc19d8b.jpg 672e48c4498fc8738b0ba501912aa9f5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Fore-Edge Paintings Subject The topic of the resource Fore-edge painting Painting Description An account of the resource A fore-edge painting is a miniature watercolor executed on the fanned edge or edges of a book; when the book is closed the art disappears, now hidden by the edge gilding. This genre of painting dates from the 1500s, flourished in the 1800s, and is still practiced today. Anonymous and undated paintings include landscapes, scenes and characters from literature, and portraits of authors. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Book Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-07-17 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV-02 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV-02_FE_014 Title A name given to the resource Lakeside Scene of a Walled Town from the Water Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Retsof (artist) Description An account of the resource Painting on the fore-edge of "Les enfants de l'amour" by Eugene Sue of a lakeside scene of a walled town from the water with several boats resting on shore at low tide. Artist Retsof or Foster is unknown. Subject The topic of the resource Fore-edge painting Painting Cityscapes Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1850 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books. ND2370.S84 E54 1850 Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/df1ce63d0c4e8cdfa3e011a125256680.mp4 45c2f4c2c933c58930dcc5d386d2f185 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f6d4ece02f8a6e4ca86d4613675d29f9.pdf 9ee0c02c00a9ea22e11afd834afb94e1 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Matt Reusch War in Afghanistan 1 hour 18 minutes 44 seconds (00:00:50) Early Life -Born in Port Huron, Michigan on July 12, 1985 -Dad was in the Coast Guard -Moved around a lot -Washington, New Jersey, Texas, and Colorado -Came back to Michigan in 2000 -Attended Forest Hills Central -Graduated in 2004 (00:01:23) Enlistment -Enlisted in the Army on March 17, 2003 -Did basic training and came back for senior year (military deal) -Family’s background, escapism, and Army history motivated decision (00:02:35) Basic Training -Did basic training at Fort Benning, Georgia -Intense -Still pretty “hands on” with the drill sergeants (old school training methods) -Intense -Made it clear that you were going into a combat zone overseas -Expected some it, but not other parts -Teamwork was foreign at first -Eventually came together -Myriad of types of people: young recruits, re-enlistees, and an Irish marine -Recruits were drawn to the infantry because of the prospect of promotion -Engaged in team building exercises -Punishment exercises to encourage discipline -Obstacle courses -Lots of physical training -Obstacle courses -Running -Requirement to be in infantry is to be in shape -Some people washed out, some went AWOL (absent without leave) -Also did AIT (advanced infantry training) in Fort Benning, Georgia -Lasted three and a half months (00:09:45) Post Training, Pre Active Duty -Interesting to go back to high school -Able to waive a gym class -Wanted to graduate and get into duty -Worked as a hometown recruiter for the National Guard -Training was limited in the Guard �-Transitioned from a heavy weapons company to a light weapons company -Guard was underfunded -Worked with basic weaponry -Most powerful gun was the SAW (squad automatic weapon) -Stayed in the National Guard for two years -Counted as full time job -Michigan National Guard was not being deployed in the wars -Was not deployed until 2005 -Wanted to go into active duty -Talked to active duty recruiter -Got approval to go active duty (00:14:22) Fort Drum, New York -Sent to Fort Drum in upstate New York -One hour northeast of Syracuse -Home of the 10th Mountain Division -3rd Brigade was being sent to Afghanistan -Rapidly introduced -Given a “sponsor” that walks you through getting processed and acclimated -Some soldiers had been in for a couple years to a decade already -National Guardsmen were viewed with disdain -It was a mix of mentoring and self-teaching -Spent two weeks at Fort Drum -Gathering gear -Filling out medical paperwork (00:16:50) First Deployment to Afghanistan-FOB Salerno, Khost Province -Left in January 2006 -Went from Fort Drum, to Germany, to Manes Air Base Kazakhstan -Landed in Bagram Air Base, Afghanistan -Had to catch a ride to deployment afterwards -Stationed in Khost Province at Forward Operating Base Salerno -Near northeast Pakistan -Dry, arid, mountainous region -Expected to patrol a sector that was the size of Rhode Island -Less than fifty soldiers to patrol the area -Heavy infantry platoon (anti-tank capacity) -Patrolled using Humvees -Carried out cordon searches, presence patrols (search people, and draw out enemy) -Interacted with village people -Dirty, averted their eyes, didn’t talk to women, played with the kids -Very tribal, very traditional -Encountered small ambushes and larger ambushes -Noticed a gradual increase in IED’s (improvised explosive devices) and small artillery -IED’s were resourceful and effective -Could destroy a Humvee -Trip wire and pressure plate designs were the most difficult to deal with -Encountered suicide bombers �(00:23:19) First Deployment to Afghanistan- In the Field -Lived out of a Humvee -Positioned trucks to provide the utmost security at night -Worked with Afghan police and camped at their checkpoints sometimes -Had Afghan interpreters with the -Afghan locals taught English -Viewed as traitors by the locals -Some were trustworthy, others not so much -Not much interaction with the Afghan military -Only used during major operations -Drawn from all over the region -Not very useful, considered a nuisance by US and Coalition troops -Stayed in the Khost Province up until they were supposed to go home (00:26:55) First Deployment to Afghanistan-Kunar Province, Chawki Valley -Time in Afghanistan was extended -Moved to Kunar Province to build a new COP (combat outpost) -Chawki Valley -Different terrain, different fighting -Noticeably more intense -Fighting the Taliban: locals and foreign fighters -Equipped with basic gear: AK 47’s, RPG’s, traditional dress for uniforms -Moved quickly -Knew the land very well -Had old Russian heavy weaponry at their disposal -Built their outpost in a geographic “fishbowl” (essentially a vulnerable canyon) -Attacked five times a day -Moved the outpost two hundred meters -Still grossly exposed -Observation posts on top of the ridges were helpful, but even more vulnerable -Three or four soldiers left up on the hills on their own -Had heavy firepower at their disposal -.50 caliber machine guns, Mark 19 grenade launchers, mortars -Supporting artillery from forward operating base -Airpower -Apache helicopters, F-16’s, A-10’s -Very gratifying sight in a firefight -Taliban would always initiate contact -Tactics improved over time -Superior firepower was instrumental against them (00:32:45) First Deployment to Afghanistan-Life in Chawki Valley -Stayed there for six months -Situation stayed pretty monotonous -Occasionally went to a forward operating base for resupply and R&R -Platoon became close -No one was killed; some took gunshot and shrapnel wounds -Always wore body armor and helmets �-Patrolled on foot -Took part in meetings with tribal leaders -Trying to get the Taliban out of control -Difficult because the Taliban used intimidation and brute force against villagers -Ate MRE’s (meals ready to eat) in the field -Some guys bought local food -Living was primitive -Took pride in it -Heat, rain, monsoons, dust storms, and snow -Everyone stayed healthy -Maintain hygiene, stayed hydrated, and took anti-malarial drugs (00:38:04) First Deployment to Afghanistan-Leadership -Switched platoon leaders four months in -Promotions didn’t prompt much change -Only saw company commander during companywide operations -Localized leadership in the form of platoon leadership -Platoon leader was a college graduate -Platoon sergeant was a well-seasoned veteran -Kept troops safe -Wanted to retire without incident (00:40:15) First Deployment to Afghanistan-Morale and Details -Would go back to Jalalabad for downtime -Small city -Basic amenities (phones and showers) -Opportunity to get mail -Not much communication in the field -Had a satellite phone -Too expensive -Allowed two minutes on the phone on Mother’s Day -Hand was crushed -Pulled radio watch at forward operating base for a couple weeks after that -Played mud football on Christmas Day -Got to be inside -Got to sleep all day -Chance to decompress -Morale was good and bad -Nobody lost their sanity -Resigned to their fate -Suicide did happen in other units -Not much of a supply chain for them in the field -Just had to be resupplied once and a while -Complex logistics reserved for forward operating bases �(00:44:23) Coming Home from First Deployment -Tour lasted eighteen months -Relieved by the 173rd Airborne Brigade -Returned to Fort Drum -Arrived in June 2007 -Given two weeks to be with family (00:44:56) More Training at Fort Drum -Had to report back to Fort Drum for further training -Had become team lead -Introduced recruits to Army living -Prepared for Iraq which turned into preparing for Afghanistan again -Classroom work and paperwork -Classroom work consisted of language courses, terrain, culture courses, and first aid -Allowed to go further in first aid and become a certified EMT -Mostly common sense knowledge -Went off post for larger scale training -Partied together as a platoon -Part of bonding -Never had disciplinary problems -Platoon sergeant retired and replaced by a new one -Good leader, but not as good as their old one -Being on base meant more distractions and more opportunities to get in trouble (00:49:31) Second Deployment to Afghanistan-Kunar Province -Returned to Afghanistan in 2009 -Moved to a scouting company -Made team lead of scouts -Different missions, different work -Mix of veterans and new recruits -Went back to Kunar Province -Area of operation had expanded to include Nuristan -Terrain was more mountainous and verdant (trees and rivers were present) -People were more isolated -Taliban was very influential -Only fifteen kilometers from Pakistan -Job was to collect intelligence -Go in before anyone else did -Traveled via helicopter to insertion point -Walk the rest of the way, carry out mission -Get extracted by helicopter or on a road -Encountered locals, wildlife, and enemy forces -Operated at a much smaller level -Picked battles carefully if at all -Used for reconnaissance and to hunt down snipers -Taliban and al Qaeda had an impressive human intelligence network -Made it almost impossible to show up unannounced -Had up to six soldiers in a scouting team �(00:54:26) Second Deployment to Afghanistan-Barge Matal -Fighting was more intense in the second tour -Fought in Barge Matal District -Charged with clearing out and occupying the town -Barge Matal -“A bad place” -ROE (rules of engagement) were lifted to further deal with threat -ISAF (International Security Assistance Force) had enforced ROE -Changed that at Barge Matal -Physically had to root out the Taliban -House to house fighting -No way to discern combatants from non-combatants -Goal was to secure town so that civilians could return -Surrounded by corn fields which made for perfect hiding places for the Taliban -Civilians did not return -U.S. Army, Afghan forces took over the town -Taliban were much more adept due to proximity to Pakistan -Lost three American soldiers -Took wounded as well -Lots of Afghan forces were killed -Some Latvian soldiers were also killed (00:59:46) Second Deployment to Afghanistan-Coalition Relations -Latvians were good fighters, tough -They didn’t like to fight alongside the Afghan forces -Korean, Egyptian, Saudi, British, German, and French Foreign Legion, Canadian military also (01:00:45) Second Deployment to Afghanistan-Other Details -Only stayed there for a year this time around -IED’s were still a severe threat -Placed in trees, buried, stuffed into animal carcasses, decoys were coupled with real ones -Spotting them was extremely difficult -Had to be vigilant to spot them -Primary mission as infantry was to clear and secure areas -No way to effectively do so -Kill all the Taliban in an area and they would just came back -“You have watches, but we have the time” – Afghan saying -Politics didn’t matter in the battlefield -New soldiers adjusted over time -Team leaders were very helpful -If you went back to your FOB you could keep up on world news -Usually a TV with CNN on -Remembers hearing about the Fort Hood Shooting -Limited sense of world awareness �(01:05:47) Morale in the Field during Second Deployment -Allowed to send emails or make phone calls after mission -Some missions could last up to a month -Married soldiers had a greater emotional strain -Couldn’t be there for their families -Was given a mandatory two week leave -Went to Las Vegas both times -Visited family -There was culture shock in returning to the United States -Returning to the U.S. was difficult -Worried about friends during leave -Returning to Afghanistan was a bizarre relief (01:08:40) End of Tour -Very beginning and very end of tour were very dangerous times -Soldiers got relaxed and complacent -Most casualties were taken at this time -End of tour procedure amongst troops -Arranging vacations -Buying cars -General packing up of gear (01:09:32) Coming Home -Coming home (permanently) is happy, but strange -Release of troops is staggered -Takes 1-2 weeks for battalion to get home -Flew into Fort Drum -Took a bus to McGrath Gym -Released to families and secured gear -Given a 48 hour leave after that -Had to return after that to wrap up work -2 week leave after that -Came home in March 2010 -Had no time left in enlistment -Decided to stay out and not re-up -Army wanted experienced soldiers to stay in as trainers, recruiters, or Rangers -Wasn’t sure what to do after military service -After initial uncertainty decided to go to college -Slim to no assistance for veterans -School benefits were easy to get -Medical compensation was almost nonexistent -Wounded Warrior Project was far better for that -Was only given a two day class about readjusting to civilian life -Impractical, most troops just wanted to go home -Strange feeling walking out of Fort Drum for the last time �(01:15:24) Reflections on Service -Keeps combat experience low key -Saves it for the VFW meetings and other veterans’ groups -Received better than Vietnam veterans -Getting a job was not particularly easy -Turned away because of impracticality of expertise, not because of animosity -Focused on leadership experience when looking for employment -Service made him conscious of how good the United States has it -Biggest struggle is picking up where you left off -People need to remember that there is still a war being fought in Afghanistan � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ReuschM1555V Title A name given to the resource Reusch, Matt (Interview outline and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Reusch, Matt Description An account of the resource Matt Reusch was born in Port Huron, Michigan, in 1985. He joined the Army during his senior year of high school and served briefly with the National Guard until his deployment to Afghanistan with the 3rd Brigade of the 10th Mountain Division out of Fort Drum in January, 2006. He served two consecutive tours there as part of a heavy weapons company and a scouting company specifically in the Khost Province, Kunar Province, and at Barge Matal. In March, 2010 his enlistment was complete and he returned to Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American United States. National Guard United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-10-31 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2a6945f8e6c85ed00d72e0915834eedf.pdf 796870ca4007d30fda52530c8c1835f9 PDF Text Text Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project América Reyes Interview Total Time – (36:58) Interview by Penny Burillo, February 11, 2016 Translated into English by Kassie O’Brien, June 2016 Family Background – (recording 1) • Her maiden name was Trigo • América was born in El Realito, Tamaulipas • Her parents were repatriated American citizens o They were given land in Mexico o América’s parents were born in the U.S. but returned to Mexico • She lived in Mexico for all of her childhood • Her father was born in Lockhart, Texas, and her mom was born in Texas as well • Her mother lived in El Realito, Tamaulipas, in the municipality called Valle Hermoso o Her father lived in the same municipality • Her mother had a daughter from her first marriage o Her mom had three sons and three daughters with América’s father, who were all born in El Realito • América went to school there through sixth grade Coming to the United States – (4:27, recording 1) • Her father was the first to come to the U.S. to work, and her mother stayed in Mexico with all the kids • América came to the U.S. when she was 22 years old o She came with her brother o They lived in Dallas • She worked in a framing factory in Dallas for about two years Her marriage – (5:45, recording 1) • She got married in Dallas o Her husband’s name was Arturo Reyes and was from San Antonio, Texas • América was 23 years old when she got married �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department • They first had a civil marriage, and then two years later they got married by a church in San Antonio • América has three children with Arturo, one girl and two boys Working as a migrant – (6:55, recording 1) • She started working as a migrant in 1997 when she separated from her husband • She came to Walkerville with her mother and brothers • She started by taking care of her brothers’ children, and later she started picking asparagus • She had never worked in farming before • Picking asparagus isn’t hard; the weather is what really is hard • They would start very early, like around 4:00am o They would end late sometimes too, like at 9:00pm or 10:00pm (Recording 2) • She worked with Carlos Moreno • They lived in some sort of small house The Beginning of Her Time in Oceana – (1:04, recording 2) • She felt very alone and really far from stores and everything else • It was hard not knowing her way around • América’s kids stayed in San Antonio during this time • América and her family would come in April or May and leave in November • They also worked with apples and zucchini • At the beginning, she arrived eager to work o But as time went on she missed her children Farming Work – (3:52, recording 2) • At first they were paid all in one check, but later on they got paid individually • They would pick vegetables in pairs, and América was paired up with her brother • They would return to San Antonio or sometimes to San Juan, Texas, in November o Her mother lived in San Juan • América has come from Texas with her family to work here every year since 1997 o Sometimes they went to different places, and she would work in a cherry factory or would pick grapes • She has worked indoors and also outdoors on tractors �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department Her Daughter – (recording 3) • América has a 15-year-old daughter named Xochitl who was born in Texas o She was born in April of 2000, when they were going to come up to work • They put her daughter in a migrants’ daycare in Walkerville • At two months old, they detected that her daughter had a heart problem o When she was nine months old, she had a heart operation in Grand Rapids o Everything turned out well, and she doesn’t even take medications anymore • América stayed in Hart for the first time in winter in 2000 o It snowed a lot o She didn’t know anyone o The only person that helped her was a woman named Randa, who especially helped during the daughter’s medical operations Current Work and Life – (4:11, recording 3) • América now works at Michigan Freeze Pack • She has worked there varying years, and when they don’t have enough work she goes to other places like Indian Summer • It depends on where there is work available • She is now 57 years old • She does not have a pension plan because the places where migrants work do not offer insurances or similar things o When her family gets Medicaid, they use that o Her daughter always has Medicaid • América has more friendships here in Michigan than she does in Texas • She has some friends from work and some friends who have been social workers Future Thoughts – (8:45, recording 3) • She likes the air here as well as the peacefulness of the town • She doesn’t want her daughter to ever work in the fields o Her daughter is in ninth grade right now • América wants a stable job, because the work in the fields is seasonal �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department • • o Her daughter needs more medical insurance because América can’t pay for all the things needed to be done, like dental work She wants to stay in Michigan It is hard for her to pay for car insurance Advice for Young People – (12:20, recording 3) • She would say that it is okay to work part-time in the fields, but it is better if they study because working in the fields will not provide them with enough to live on • There are many things that a single women in this line of work cannot do o For example, a single woman can’t buy a house or a car because the expense is just too high o She would have to buy something second-hand, but this can be dangerous Final Thoughts – (15:06, recording 3) • Her older children came one season but they didn’t like it • She has gotten tired of always coming and going every year o She wants to stay in one place o It has been a big struggle in the schools in Texas; they aren’t very easily accepting o América has decided to stay in Oceana due to all of this • Life is easier now, but at the beginning they still fought to find a place to stay • Everything has been improving now o People are living in better housing than they used to � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dde99b22bf71da324cd902192c2bf912.pdf 1fbf7696121ae5d4914a6e952f0ebcc4 PDF Text Text Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department Una comunidad que cultiva: El proyecto de la historia agrícola de Oceana Entrevista de América Reyes Tiempo total – (36:58) Entrevistado por Penny Burillo, 11 Febrero 2016 Antecedentes familiares – (grabación 1) • Trigo es su apellido de soltera • Nació en El Realito, Tamaulipas • Sus padres eran ciudadanos americanos repatriados o Les dieron tierras en México a sus padres o Los padres de América nacieron en los Estados Unidos, pero regresaron a México • Pasó toda su niñez en México • Su papá nació en Lockhart, Texas, y su mamá en Texas también • Su mamá vivía en El Realito, Tamaulipas, en el municipio de Valle Hermoso o Su papá vivía en este municipio también • Su mamá tenía una niña de su primer matrimonio o Con el papá de América, tenían tres niños y tres niñas, y todos nacieron en El Realito • América fue a la escuela allí hasta el sexto grado Venir a los Estados Unidos – (4:27, grabación 1) • Su papá se venía primero a los Estados Unidos para trabajar, y su mamá se quedó en México con los niños • América vino a los EEUU cuando tenía 22 años o Se vinieron ella y su hermano o Vivieron en Dallas • Trabajó en una fábrica de cuadros en Dallas y duró allí unos dos años El matrimonio – (5:45, grabación 1) • Se casó en Dallas o Su esposo se llama Arturo Reyes y era de San Antonio, Texas • América tenía 23 años cuando se casó �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department • Se casaron para el civil primero, y después de dos años se casaron por la iglesia en San Antonio • América tiene tres hijos con Arturo, una mujer y dos hombres Trabajar como migrante – (6:55, grabación 1) • Ella empezó a trabajar como migrante en 1997 cuando se separó de su esposo • Vino con su mamá y sus hermanos, y llegaron a Walkerville • Empezó a cuidar a los niños de sus hermanos y luego piscó espárragos • Nunca había trabajado antes en la agricultura • Piscar espárragos no es duro; lo que es duro es el clima • Empezaba muy temprano, como a las 4 de la mañana o A veces terminaba muy tarde, como a las 9 o 10 de la noche (Grabación 2) • Trabajó con Carlos Moreno • Vivían en un tipo de casa pequeña Al principio de su tiempo en Oceana – (1:04, grabación 2) • Se sentía muy solo y muy lejos de las tiendas y todo • No saber los caminos era difícil • Los hijos de América se quedaron en San Antonio durante este tiempo • La familia y América llegaban en abril o mayo y se iban en noviembre • También hicieron manzanas y calabacín • Al principio llegaba con ganas de trabajar o Pero con el tiempo les echaba de menos a sus niños El trabajo en la agricultura – (3:52, grabación 2) • Se pagaba en un solo cheque, y luego se pagaba individualmente • Piscaban por parejas, así América estaba con un hermano • Regresaban a San Antonio o a veces a San Juan, Texas, en noviembre o Su mamá vivía en San Juan • América ha venido de Texas con su familia para trabajar todos los años desde 1997 o A veces iba a lugares diferentes y trabajaba en una fábrica con cerezas o piscaba las uvas • Ha trabajado adentro y también afuera en un tractor �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department Su hija – (grabación 3) • América tiene una niña de 15 años que se llama Xochitl, y nació en Texas o Nació en abril de 2000, cuando iban a venir a trabajar • La pusieron en la guardería de los migrantes en Walkerville • A los dos meses, detectaron que su hija tenía un problema de corazón o A los nueve meses, la hija tenía una operación de corazón en Grand Rapids o Todo salió bien y ya no toma medicinas • América se quedó en Hart durante el invierno por primera vez en 2000 o Se cayó mucha nieve o No conocía a nadie o La única persona que le ayudó a América fue la señora Randa, y especialmente ayudó durante las operaciones de la niña Trabajo y vida actual – (4:11, grabación 3) • Ahora América trabaja en Michigan Freeze Pack • Ha trabajado allí años variados, y cuando no hay trabajo allí ella va a otro lugar como Indian Summer • Depende donde hay trabajo • Ahora tiene 57 años • No tiene ningún plan de pensión porque los lugares en que trabajan los migrantes no tienen seguros o cosas así o Cuando su familia recibe Medicaid, usa esto o La niña siempre tiene Medicaid • América tiene más amistades aquí en Michigan que en Texas • Tiene amigas de trabajo y también amigas que son trabajadores sociales Pensamientos futuros – (8:45, grabación 3) • Le gusta el aire que hay aquí y le encanta que hay mucha paz en el pueblo • No le gustaría que su hija trabajara en el campo o Ella está en el grado nueve • América quiere un trabajo seguro, porque el trabajo con vegetales es por temporada o La niña necesita más seguro médico porque América no puede pagar por las necesidades de los dientes y otras cosas �Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department • • Desea quedarse en Michigan Pagar las seguranzas de carro es difícil para ella Consejos para jóvenes – (12:20, grabación 3) • Diría que está bien trabajar en los campos a tiempo medio, pero mejor que se estudie porque trabajar en el campo no da suficiente para vivir • La diferencia de una mujer sola trabajar en este tipo de trabajo es que hay muchas cosas que no se puede hacer o Por ejemplo, no puede comprar casa o carro porque el gasto sería demasiado o Tendría que comprar algo de segundo mano pero eso puede ser peligroso Reflexiones finales – (15:06, grabación 3) • Sus hijos mayores vinieron por una temporada pero no les gustó • América ya se cansó de ir y venir cada año o Quisiera quedarse en un lugar o Se batalla mucho en la escuela en Texas; no les aceptan muy fácil o América decide quedarse en Oceana a causa de todo eso • Ahora la vida es más fácil, pero a los principios allí todavía se batallaba mucho para encontrar un lugar para quedarse • Todo ahora ha ido mejorando o La gente se queda en mejores viviendas que antes � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9c3223006514704c414d8ec72b5303ba.mp3 42a97d81e236a90143d4caeb496a5717 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6f6de35113d8f4e8c512a30906246429.mp3 95c18849fbef2170606ae9fd3e59a7ba https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e41f7ac3031eccb25cd7c9b35ff3e78b.mp3 ad1fe4bfcb0bacec5e3a8da0c93f91b2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oceana County Migrant Labor History Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shell-Weiss, Melanie Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Growing Community: A Century of Migration in Oceana County." This project was a collaboration between El Centro Hispano de Oceana, the Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society, and Grand Valley State University funded by a Common Heritage grant from the United States National Endowment for the Humanities. The materials in this collection document the history of communities in Hart, Shelby, and Walkerville and explore themes of migration, labor, religion, family, belonging, national and cultural identities, regional, national, and international connections, and citizenship. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Oceana County (Mich.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource El Centro Hispano de Oceana; Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society Relation A related resource Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage project) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-06 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Image Sound recording Language A language of the resource eng spa Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016 Subject The topic of the resource Oceana County (Mich.) Hart (Mich.) Shelby (Mich.) Farms Farmers Migrant agricultural laborers Hispanic Americans Account books Diaries Oral history Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry Reyes, America (entrevista de audio y resumen) Descripción Spanish language Description entry Entrevista de historia oral con America Reyes. Entrevistada por Penny Burillo. Idioma en Español. Febrero 11, 2016. América Reyes nació en El Realito, Tamaulipas, en México. Pasó toda su niñez en México. Vino a los Estados Unidos cuando tenía 22 años y vivía en Dallas, Texas. Se casó allí y tuvo dos niños y una niña. En 1997, América y su mamá y sus hermanos vinieron a Walkerville, Michigan. Empezaron a trabajar como migrantes, recogiendo vegetales en los campos. Ahora América trabaja en Michigan Freeze Pack. Desea quedarse en Michigan en el futuro. Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms El Realito Tamaulipas México San Antonio Texas Fábrica Espárragos Matrimonio Agricultura Invierno Michigan Freeze Pack Seguro Temporada Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-06_Reyes_America Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Reyes, America Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-02-11 Title A name given to the resource Reyes, America (audio interview and summary) Description An account of the resource Oral history interview with America Reyes. Interviewed by Penny Burillo. Spanish language recording. Summary in English and Spanish. February 11, 2016. América Reyes was born in El Realito, Tamaulipas, Mexico. She lived in Mexico for all of her childhood. She came to the United States when she was 22 years old and lived in Dallas, Texas. She married there and had two sons and one daughter. In 1997, América and her mother and brothers came to Walkerville, Michigan. They began working as migrants, picking vegetables in the fields. América now works at Michigan Freeze Pack. She wants to stay in Michigan in the future. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Burillo, Penny (interviewer) Shell-Weiss, Melanie (director) Subject The topic of the resource El Realito Tamaulipas Mexico San Antonio Texas Factory Asparagus Marriage Farming Winter Michigan Freeze Pack Insurance Season Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8689aa8d6a00ecd4e822c93a096508da.pdf 0f90896d9ccd518c4700c7f85e9ba0bd PDF Text Text Young Lords In Lincoln Park Interviewee: Carmen Tirado Reyes Interviewers: José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 5/12/2012 Biography and Description English Carmen Tirado Reyes is married to Marcelo Jiménez, a proud Hacha Vieja, and uncle of José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez. She is a well -respected and dedicated housewife who grew up in San Salvador, the barrio of Caguas where the Jiménez family is from and still lives strong. The original Hacha Viejas were her husband’s cousins. In the 1940s they moved to Barrio Mula in Aguas Buenas, Puerto Rico, where “Tio Gabriel,” as he was called, had purchased a large farm, hired workers, and raised his many children. When work was slow, those children and workers came to Chicago, settling in La Clark in the late 1940s and early 1950s. Ms. Reyes and Mr. Jiménez came to Chicago over this time as well, later moving to Lakeview by Wrigley Field, Wicker Park, Humboldt Park, and finally to Winchester and North Avenue where they purchase a home and remained for many years. One of Ms. Reyes’s sons became a leader of the Latin Kings. Many of the sons and some daughters of these new immigrants became leaders of local social clubs or gangs, such as the Latin Disciples, the Young Latin Organization (YLO), and Latin Eagles. Ms. Reyes now lives in Puerto Rico where she and Mr. Marcelo Jiménez returned to build their home across from la quebra, or mountain stream, that leads from La Plaza straight up toward the mountain section of Maracal. �Spanish Carmen Tirado Reyes estas casada con Marcelo Jiménez, orgullosa de ser una Hacha Vieja, igual que la tía de José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez. Ella es una esposa dedicado y respetada quien creció en San Salvador, el barrio de Caguas en donde la familia Jiménez sigue viviendo fuerte. Los originales Hacha Viejas eran primos de su esposo. En los 1940s so mudaron al Barrio Mula en Aguas Buenas, Puerto Rico, donde “Tío Gabriel” compro una granja en donde contrato unos trabajadores y creo sus hijos. En los 1940s y 1950s, cuando el trabajo se fue los trabajadores y niños se fueron a Chicago, ah La Clark. Señora Reyes y Señor Jiménez se mudaron a Chicago durante este tiempo y luego fueron a Lakeview alado de Wrigly Field, Wicker Park, Humboldt Par y finalmente a Winchester y North Avenue, donde compraron so propia casa. Uno de los hijos de Reyes se hico un líder de los Latin Kings. La mayoría de sus hijos e hijas de nuevos inmigrantes se hicieron líderes de grupos sociales igual que bandas como los Latin Disciples, los Young Latin Organization (YLO), y las Latin Eagles. Señora Reyes ahora está en Puerto Rico donde vive in frente de la quebra con su esposo Marcelo. � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d88da7fa27e1e641015f27f4f0b947ee.mp4 6fd81452893dbfe9a0ca4682b5f98b2a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry Carmen Tirado Reyes vídeo entrevista y biografía Descripción Spanish language Description entry Carmen Tirado Reyes estas casada con Marcelo Jiménez, orgullosa de ser una Hacha Vieja, igual que la tía de José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez. Ella es una esposa dedicado y respetada quien creció en San Salvador, el barrio de Caguas en donde la familia Jiménez sigue viviendo fuerte. Los originales Hacha Viejas eran primos de su esposo. En los 1940s so mudaron al Barrio Mula en Aguas Buenas, Puerto Rico, donde “Tío Gabriel” compro una granja en donde contrato unos trabajadores y creo sus hijos. En los 1940s y 1950s, cuando el trabajo se fue los trabajadores y niños se fueron a Chicago, ah La Clark. Señora Reyes y Señor Jiménez se mudaron a Chicago durante este tiempo y luego fueron a Lakeview alado de Wrigly Field, Wicker Park, Humboldt Par y finalmente a Winchester y North Avenue, donde compraron so propia casa. Uno de los hijos de Reyes se hico un líder de los Latin Kings. La mayoría de sus hijos e hijas de nuevos inmigrantes se hicieron líderes de grupos sociales igual que bandas como los Latin Disciples, los Young Latin Organization (YLO), y las Latin Eagles. Señora Reyes ahora está en Puerto Rico donde vive in frente de la quebra con su esposo Marcelo. Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Narrativas personales Puertorriqueños--Vida social y costumbres Puerto Rico--Autonomía y movimientos independentistas Idioma español--Relatos personales Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Reyes_Carmen Title A name given to the resource Carmen Tirado Reyes inerview and biography Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Reyes, Carmen Description An account of the resource Carmen Tirado Reyes is married to Marcelo Jiménez, a proud Hacha Vieja, and uncle of José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez. In the 1940s they moved to Barrio Mula in Aguas Buenas, Puerto Rico, where “Tio Gabriel,” as he was called, had purchased a large farm, hired workers, and raised his many children. When work was slow, those children and workers came to Chicago, settling in La Clark in the late 1940s and early 1950s. One of Ms. Reyes’s sons became a leader of the Latin Kings. Ms. Reyes now lives in Puerto Rico. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Puerto Ricans--Personal narratives Social justice Puerto Ricans--Social life and customs Puerto Rico--Autonomy and independence movements Spanish language--Personal narratives Language A language of the resource spa Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-05-12 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/74544de1f7db4468596c9f56e2b370a4.pdf f66bca57f6f9773db231d8c10bb7817f PDF Text Text Young Lords In Lincoln Park Interviewee: David Rivera Reyes Interviewers: Jose Jimenez Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 1/12/2011 Runtime: 01:28:27 Biography and Description David Rivera’s family arrived to the Division and Clark Streets area in 1950 and from there in 1952, they moved to Clybourn and Halsted Streets between the Cabrini Green Housing Projects and the Lincoln Park Neighborhood. A few months later David Rivera arrived and the entire family moved to Don Orelio’s house on Dayton Street between North Avenue and Willow Street. They were brief neighbors with the Cha-Cha Jimenez family who lived downstairs from them. Not long afterwards the Rivera family bought a house across from the alley on Fremont Street, south of Willow where Bissell Street intersected. This was one of the first enclaves of Puerto Ricans that settled in Lincoln Park. The enclave connected with others later but stretched in the area from Halsted street west to Sheffield Ave., and from North Avenue to Willow Street. David’s grandfather became the neighborhood barber and David’s siblings built a homemade rollercoaster that came down the railing and stretched into the large backyard and back. It was basically a crate with roller skate wheels and each kid paid two or three cents with empty bottle refunds, for the ride. David’s nickname was Chicken Killer because he and his brothers worked at the live chicken store on North Avenue, of which the street had become the primary business area for the Latino section. He also worked with his cousin Orlando Davila on a milk truck as well as several other factories of the area. �While only 10 and 11 they were a part of the Knights which soon later Orlando organized them with others and they became a totally new group called the Young Lords; as a street group or gang in 1960. David also led the motorcycle group called the Sons of the Devil while still being the Field Marshall for the Young Lords political group. �Transcript JOSE JIMENEZ: Can you tell me your full name, and when you were born, and where you were born? DAVID RIVERA REYES: My name is David Rivera Reyes. I was born in Puerto Rico - Coamo, Puerto Rico. I was born in 1948, so I’ll be turning 70 in a couple of months. JJ: So you didn’t answer me, how was Coamo, Puerto Rico? What do you remember about Coamo? DRR: In Coamo, we used to live in the mountains in an area called Santa Catalina. It was a community where you couldn’t use a car to get up there, it can only go so far, and then you’d have to walk the rest of the way. I remember we having a community [00:01:00] well where people went and got their water, their potable water, carry it back in cans. I remember the big square cans that after they -cracker cans, Export Sodas cans, that was the thing that people used to carry their water. They would wash their dishes outside one of the windows in the sink. Their baths were either in the river or they would take water and go into the outhouse with soap and water in another smaller can, would bathe. People out there lived mostly off the land. Everybody worked the land. If you didn’t work your own land, you would work for someone else. Mostly likely you would go [00:02:00] out and cut sugar cane which was one of the main jobs that people had down there was sugar cane -- and building in cement blocks, but the majority would work their own land and sell their products in town to make a living. People that were able to save up some money and fly out after the big migration 1 �back in the ’40s, late ’40s. My parents were some that came -- I believe it was in 1950 when they came up to Chicago. It was my parents, and some uncles and some aunts. I remember that [00:03:00] they would live in a small hotel on North Avenue and Dayton -- North Avenue, Dayton, and Clybourn. There was a restaurant called The Golden Ox. In that building, there were lots of rooms for rent. A lot of them stayed there. Maybe sometimes even three, four, and five people in one small room. They would get jobs wherever they could. Mostly they got maintenance jobs, or jobs where they had to clean up after everybody or, if they were lucky, restaurant jobs. My mother was a lucky one. My mother was a blonde-haired, blue-eyed Puerto Rican woman. She got lucky, she got a job at a called Carbit Paint Company [00:04:00] right off of North Avenue by California. JJ: Carbon Paint -- DRR: Carbit. Carbit Paint Company. She was paid to put labels on cans. I believe she started at about $0.75 to $0.80 an hour. She worked in that company until she retired. But in that company, she was able, because of her hard work, was able to put a few of my uncles to work there, my aunts to work there, other people that would come in from Puerto Rico looking for jobs, a lot of them ended up working at Carbit Paint Company and all through her hands. JJ: Where was this located? DRR: The company was on North Avenue, [00:05:00] but they got bigger, so they moved over on Kingston by the railroad tracks. There they bought a big factory and they would make their own paints there. And then the North Avenue location 2 �became the actual store where people go and buy their paint. I remember me working at that paint company myself when I was 17. JJ: A lot of Puerto Ricans? DRR: Pardon. JJ: A lot of Puerto Ricans? DRR: A lot of Puerto Ricans. I would say 50 percent of the labor -- or even more so -practically all the laborers were Puerto Ricans, and the majority of the Puerto Ricans were from our small town in Puerto Rico, Coamo. It was more like a family thing. [00:06:00] But they were hard workers and they were liked very much -- except my father. My father worked in a lumber company. JJ: So what was your father’s name and your mother’s name? And your siblings. DRR: My father’s name was Franciso, my mother’s name was Angelica, but they called her Angie, or, as we call her, [Las Halo?]. We also had my grandfather, Gregorio Ortiz, and my grandmother, Sofia Ortiz. But my grandfather was a man of all trades. That was a man that I learned to admire. Soft-spoken, a man of few words, he was a professional barber, professional carpenter, cabinet-maker, [00:07:00] instrument-maker, he would build his own guitars and all kinds of instruments. He was very professional at what he did, and that’s how he made his living. As a matter of fact, [he who worked back?] for himself doing this actually did better than a lot of people that worked in factories, and especially married to my grandma because she used to take every penny she had and put it away which was good because it actually allowed my mother to be one of the first Puerto Ricans in the neighborhood to be able to literally buy her own house. 3 �And she bought it on Fremont Street right over there by crooked Bissell. Matter of fact, the address over there was 1705 North Fremont [00:08:00] Street, a house that had four apartments, and she would rent the apartments. And my mom was a very strong woman which made us -- we became a little -- you would say little better off families in the neighborhood. But from there, a lot of them took off, and eventually a few of them bought their own buildings, their own houses. And this is in the Lincoln Park area, right on the outskirts of the Lincoln Park area. JJ: So (inaudible) from there, did you come from -- from what house? DRR: Well, when they first came, actually, they lived around 63rd and Halsted. [00:09:00] From 63rd and Halsted, they moved down to around 43rd and Halsted. JJ: What year? DRR: I would say 1950-1951. By 1952, they had moved out to the Lincoln Park area over on North Avenue and Halsted, Clybourn. By this time, 1953, we went to school. I started going to school in 1953. I was going to Mulligan School on Sheffield, so were my brothers and my sisters. JJ: So how many brothers and sisters and what are their names? DRR: I had one sister [00:10:00] called Damari, my brother, Nelson, my brother, Jose, and my brother, Selsa, and myself. That’s where I can say I have all my real childhood memories. JJ: At Mulligan? 4 �DRR: At Mulligan, on Bissell and Dayton, on Fremont and Bissell. Even though they run parallel, Bissell -- we call it crooked Bissell because it took a turn and it ran into -JJ: What kind of memories? DRR: Fun memories. That’s when we went outside, played with our friends, building skateboards out of two by four’s and old roller-skates and using an old crate for it, [00:11:00] and putting handles on it, and dressing it up with bottle caps. Building bicycles out of parts that we found. I remember we found a tire, we needed a tire, and it had a bubble in it, so we put black electrical tape all around it. So we drove 10, 20 miles an hour on that bike, and all along it would go bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, (laughter) down the street. At night, we would play games and go to the play lot, play baseball -- mostly stick ball. We would play stick ball on the street. It was a fun time growing up. Wearing our little Davy Crockett t-shirts and our cap pistols playing war. JJ: So Davy Crockett was a big person at that time? DRR: Oh, Davy Crockett [00:12:00] was our hero. Davy Crockett -JJ: I actually had a Davy Crockett hat. DRR: Oh, yeah, the little hat with the tail, the mask of the Lone Ranger, Zorro, The Cisco Kid, all became our heroes. Those were the programs that we watched. We had a lot of channels. All four of them: Channel 2, Channel 9, Channel 7, and Channel 5. And Channel 11 you had to pay for. Those were wonderful memories. The only bad part about there was that being from a different country, a different culture, we couldn’t go into every store that we wanted to. [00:13:00] 5 �We would be told to get out. Or if we went to a hamburger stand, we would be told, “We don’t serve your kind.” JJ: You saw that? DRR: Yes. Actually, lived it. JJ: How did you see it? Give me an example. DRR: Well, I just told you. We were not allowed to go in there. I didn’t even think that it was racism, I just figured it was -- we weren’t allowed in there, and we weren’t allowed in there. What I was told, “When an adult tells you no, it was no.” You didn’t speak back to an adult. You had to respect an adult no matter who it was. That’s how we were brought up. We were brought up under the strength of a chancleta and a good leather belt. That’s how -JJ: The shoe? The chancleta? DRR: Oh, that chancleta. Yeah, the almighty chancleta. [00:14:00] It had a lot of power. You could loud mouth all you want, but when grandma took out that chancleta, you shut up. (laughs) But I guess I never realized it until later on in my -- as I got a little older what it really was. I just thought, “You can’t go in there, you can’t go in there. They don’t want you in there, they don’t want you in there.” In my neighborhood, it was mostly Latino, some Blacks, and the whites that were there, now I call them poor whites -- Appalachian whites. They were treated by everybody else just as bad as we were. So since we all played in the street, we didn’t see no difference, we just played with everybody and [00:15:00] everybody played with us. But now, as we started to move out of the neighborhood away from Mulligan School, started going to Newberry School, 6 �some of us went to Newberry School, some of us -- I got sick to where I couldn’t walk very well, so I would get bused to school, to a school called Spalding on Washington and Ashland. It was a parochial school because I had to walk on crutches. Now, I was there for about three years after I left Mulligan. When I got out of there, it was 1961. In 1961, I started hanging around [00:16:00] with the other kids that -- I let go of the crutches, so I was able to go out. And my cousin, Orlando, and Lupe, and Hector, and Blas -JJ: So your cousin was Orlando Davila? DRR: Orlando Davila. JJ: The one that founded the Young Lords street gang. DRR: Yeah. JJ: That’s your cousin that -- DRR: Yeah, Orlando Davila would work with us -JJ: And Lupe and his brothers -- DRR: Yeah, they’re from the same town we were in in Coamo. JJ: Oh, he’s from Coamo, too. DRR: Yeah, we all -- our parents all came up at the same time. JJ: Did they live near you? DRR: Yeah. JJ: Where did they live? DRR: They lived on Bissell just north of Willow. Yeah, between Willow -JJ: That’s where Orlando lived? DRR: Yeah. 7 �JJ: Okay. What do you remember of him? Do you remember anything? DRR: Oh, I remember everything of him. He was the third of four boys. He had [00:17:00] a sister named Myrna. His father, Lupe, and his mother Mercedes. His mother’s name was Mercedes. His older brother was Blas, and there was Hector, and then there was Orlando, and then there was Lupe. And Orlando and Lupe were the ones that used to hang around with us because they were the younger ones. I remember Hector, it was in the ’50s, late ’50s, when we heard the news that Hector had died. I don’t know all the details, but they found him in a chair, and he was dead. I remember when they buried him, Orlando stepping up to me and saying, [00:18:00] “Does that hole look six feet deep?” I looked at him, I said, “Man, I don’t know.” He goes, “Yeah, because they say they gotta be six feet.” I says, “Well, I really don’t know.” But that was devastating to them. JJ: So Orlando, I mean he’s the founder of the gang. So what type of person was he when he was younger? A mean guy or did he -- DRR: Orlando was not a mean guy. Him and I hung out a lot. We would walk to school together, we would get out of school together, we would go to the A&A together, we would go to the play lot together, we walked home together. You know, we were close because we lived close to each other. We even worked in [00:19:00] a milk truck together. JJ: What did you guys talk about? What did you talk about together? DRR: We talked about anything that was going on, like, for example, when he was working for the milk truck -- Orlando was a worker. Orlando always had a job. When he wasn’t at the milk truck, he was on his bicycle delivering newspapers. 8 �He always had a paper route. You know what? I never remember Orlando backing out of anything or from anybody. Orlando was a warrior. He was a softspoken, [00:20:00] a kid of very few words, but he was a warrior. And he loved his family and he loved his friends, but he stood up for what he believed in. And I believe that that’s why we looked at him as a leader because he was a fighter. Like I said, as we started branching out away from the little neighborhood, we started running into different other problems which was gang problems. Like our parents would go to Saint Teresa’s Church. When we went, we had problems because you had a group called Corp which was actually -- came out of the German Bugle Corp. Saint Michael’s -- not Saint Teresa’s, Saint Michael’s. [00:21:00] And they also had, in the neighborhood there was a street called Mohawk, so they had a group called the Mohawk Boys. And down around Dickens and Halsted was a group called Roma’s, they used to hang around Roma’s restaurant and pizzeria. And we had problems with them because the hot dog stand that we used to like to go to was Uncle Frank’s over there on Halsted and Dickens, and just down the street was the Roma’s restaurant, so that caused a lot of conflicts, a lot of fights. And that’s when we started grouping up as gangs. Now, I remember some of the first gangs were [00:22:00] the Black Eagles, the Paragons, the Imperial Aces, the Continentals which was the one that Carlos Flores belonged to, and my brother, Selsa, belonged to -- the Trojans, and then there was the Young Knights which were the ones that Orlando put together which weeks later became the Young Lords. I remember the first time that they became the Young Lords, we took white paint and painted 9 �the Young Lords name on Burling Street, right next to the border [00:23:00] play lot because we were declaring that our turf, the playground over there on Armitage and Burling. Where at that time, they had just finished building the new Arnold Upper Grade Center, that was the summer of 1962. Summer of 1962, they finished building the Arnold Upper Grade Center right across the street from Waller High School, and it was supposed to open for class at the end of ’62 and the beginning of ’63. We got t-shirts, we had black and purple sweaters which we got the colors [00:24:00] from watching the movie West Side Story. JJ: Where’d you watch it at? DRR: We watched it at the Biograph Theater. I remember the day we went to watch it, we got into a big old fight over there because the kids from Roma’s, and the Mohawk Boys, and the Corp were all there, and so were the Young Lords, so were the Paragons, the Imperial Aces, the Black Eagles -- the Black Eagles was the gang that almost all the other kids looked up to because they were like the older kids, 17, 18-year old kids. And we were just really young, we were only like 14, 15-years old. [00:25:00] A lot of gang fights. JJ: So how did the fights start? At the Biograph? DRR: At the Biograph, I really don’t know. All I know is that everybody started running, and everybody was kicking, everybody was pulling out knives, everybody was taking their belts off to use as whips, popcorn was flyin’ all over the place, soda was flyin’ all over the place. The Puerto Rican kids on one side, the white kids on the other side, everybody else was terrified. All I know is that we ran out of there laughin’. I remember stopping at the alleyway on the way down Lincoln 10 �Avenue, and that’s where [00:26:00] -- as a matter of fact, it was Orlando who pointed it out to me and said, “Hey, this is the alley they had killed John Dillinger at.” I said, “Yeah, but let’s get out of here.” So we ran down that alley all the way to Austin Street and away from there. Later that night, we got an attack by bottles from a car that drove past the play lot, and we were chasing them, and I think they were the Mohawk Boys who did that. In school, it was the same thing because they used to go to the same schools we did. JJ: They went to Mulligan? DRR: Not Mulligan, we were already going to Arnold Upper Grade Center, and some of them were first year Waller High School. Newberry -- I think he [00:27:00] used to go to Newberry. I remember my cousin, Arsenio, starting the Trojans group. Then from there, we started hanging out -- got a little older, we started hanging out -JJ: So why did they have -- like you said, your cousin started the Trojans, and they had the Black Eagles, and they had these other -- Paragon and that. Why were people starting these groups? DRR: Well, at first the groups used to get together even without a name because it was actually for protection. You did not want to walk to school by yourself. Most of the time, you walked by yourself, you ended up getting chased, by yourself or beat up. JJ: [00:28:00] Why? Why were they chasing you and beating you? DRR: Well, how should I say? I hate to say it this way but the white groups at the time felt that we were invading their territory. 11 �JJ: The gangs? DRR: The gangs, the Puerto Ricans itself. The Puerto Ricans. Remember, the Lincoln Park area was almost all white. When the Puerto Ricans started moving in, and then the Blacks started coming in from around North Avenue and Sedgwick or the Cabrini-Green projects because they couldn’t all go to Cooley, they felt threatened. They felt their neighborhoods were being taken over [00:29:00] and they wanted to fight for their territory. As far as they were concerned, it was their play lots, their restaurants, their park. And they figured, “We beat them up, they’ll go away.” JJ: So the white groups were worried about their territory, but they were attacking all the Puerto Ricans? DRR: Yeah, they were attacking anybody that didn’t belong there. JJ: Is that correct or -- I don’t want to put words in your mouth. DRR: What? JJ: I don’t want to put words in your mouth. So they were concerned, the white groups, about their gang territory, but they were attacking every Puerto Rican. DRR: Yeah, they didn’t know the difference. JJ: So they didn’t want to attack a gang, they were attacking Puerto Ricans. Is that correct or no? Or were attacking the gangs? DRR: [00:30:00] They were attacking gangs because it was teenagers against teenagers, though when older Puerto Ricans would walk down the street, they would get mugged or talked down to. A lot of people didn’t pay attention, they didn’t understand what the hell they were saying anyway. 12 �JJ: When you say older, do you mean teenagers? DRR: No, when I say older it’s your mom, your dad, your grandpa, your grandma. JJ: The moms and dads were mugged. DRR: I remember my grandfather, for example, coming out of Del Farm’s over there on Halsted and North Avenue, and how he would say that a couple of white kids would run past him and knock his bags off his hands. It was just, “Here’s an old Puerto Rican man, let’s knock his groceries out for the fun of it.” [00:31:00] They just became like natural enemies. Yeah, you know what? It’d be safe to say that it just became a racial thing because to them everybody was Puerto Rican. You could’ve been from Mexico, but if you talked Spanish, you were Puerto Rican. It’s like today everybody’s Mexican. If you speak Spanish, you’re Mexican because that’s everybody focus, on Mexico. The thing was that the groups banned could actually fight for turf, to actually fight [00:32:00] for a place to be able to go and hang out like the playground. Or when we aren’t allowed or told we couldn’t go to North Avenue beach -- every time you went down to North Avenue beach, there was always a big fight. The Puerto Rican teens, they used to go down there to play baseball, were told to get out or they couldn’t play there after they were told that they could. We were fighting for the right to live here is what you were actually doing. At the time, we didn’t see it as what we see it today, but yeah. [00:33:00] And all these groups, it was because of different friends you had, different age groups. For example, a Young Lord couldn’t become a Black Eagle because they were too young. The Black Eagles were 13 �older kids. The Imperial Aces were older kids. I’m trying to think of some other names. JJ: Was there a lot of drugs at that time? Because today the gangs are into drugs. DRR: No, they weren’t into drugs. The older ones did smoke marijuana. They used to call it reefer back then. They would smoke marijuana. Marijuana came into the city in the early [00:34:00] to mid-’60s, that I remember. I remember that’s when I started smoking when I was about 14, 15. I’m talking about cigarettes, and some of my friends were already smoking marijuana cigarettes. I don’t remember them using any heavier type of drugs. Now -JJ: But I meant at that time when you first started fighting with the white gangs? DRR: No, not at that time. Then when the Young Lords themselves moved to their hangout from Larrabee and Armitage, Halsted and Armitage, or Dickens and Halsted over there, [00:35:00] we started hanging out on Leland and North Avenue. JJ: Wieland. DRR: Oh Wieland and North Avenue. And over there near Wieland and North Avenue was a restaurant called the OK Corral, and that’s where we used to hang out at. By now, there was -- I’m looking for (inaudible). JJ: Need a break? DRR: Yeah, a break. (break in audio) DRR: But like I was talking about, we were -- we moved down to North Avenue and Wieland. The OK Corral -- because our hang out became Old Town in Chicago. 14 �JJ: What does that look like? OK Corral? DRR: The OK Corral was just a restaurant. We used to hang out there, [00:36:00] and everybody was meeting there like we used to meet at the old A&A restaurant. JJ: A&A restaurant, where was that at? DRR: That was at Armitage and Larrabee. JJ: And what did that look like? DRR: That was just a small restaurant with a counter, about three or four chairs in it, and the kids used to go in there and hang out. I remember Mary, the lady that first bought it, she couldn’t take it because she liked the kids, but the kids didn’t allow good business to come in, so she sold it to Octavio. Octavio let us hang out, but him, too, had the same problem. We were hanging in there so other folks wouldn’t go in there and eat, so eventually it just closed down. Same thing with the OK corral. [00:37:00] Now, by this time, we’re 16, 17-years old. I’ve already quit school. JJ: Were there more Puerto Ricans at that time moving in or no? DRR: A lot more Puerto Ricans. JJ: What year was this? DRR: We’re talking about 1964-’65, ’66. JJ: Why were they moving in? DRR: Why were they moving in? JJ: Yeah, what was going on that a lot of Puerto Ricans were moving in? DRR: It was just a Puerto Rican neighborhood. The people that came in, you know, that’s where people went to. They search out their own people, actually. 15 �Chicago’s very diverse, you know, everybody had like their own neighborhoods. I remember there, [00:38:00] for example -JJ: So it was segregated, they had their own neighborhoods. DRR: Right, their own neighborhoods. JJ: It was diverse, it had different peoples. DRR: Exactly. By this time, though, the Puerto Rican population now is moving east of Halsted and east of Larrabee. Now, you were going into what used to be considered, you know, a non-Latino area. You only saw -JJ: So now the Puerto Ricans are invading. DRR: Exactly. So the other groups are feeling like they were being invaded, exactly. JJ: The people felt that? DRR: Yeah. At the same time now, during this time, besides the teenagers, there was a lot of things going on also with the Latinos -- [00:39:00] the parents. Some of the parents are now doing a little bit better financially even though they are only $1.10, $1.20 an hour, they were doing -- other things were going on. What was going on? I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of a group called the Hacha Viejas. JJ: Yes. In English, what -- DRR: The Hacha Viejas? Old Axes. They were involved in other things. Now some of the Puerto Rican people are opening up stores, they’re opening up bars -- still working in factories, but they’re opening up these businesses. I never understood why. I figured they work hard for it, but later on I found out that it was the numbers -- the lotería, numeros. [00:40:00] Numero lotería china they called it. 16 �JJ: Chinese? DRR: Mm-hmm. It was just like today’s lotto, but only it was clandestine, it was underground. You sold numbers, and people were making money from it. Also, the marijuana business was growing. Besides the marijuana business growing, it was the Vietnam war. The Vietnam war was creating a new kind of animal, one that was always there but never seen as much, and that animal -- I call it animal, but -- for lack of a word, but the heroin addict. I moved away from the Young Lords [00:41:00] in about 1965, and got together with my cousin, Gilbert, Santiago, and started a group called The Sons of the Devil motorcycle club. I was with them when -JJ: Where did you start them at? What streets? DRR: At Saint Teresa’s Church, actually. (laughs) Actually, it was Saint Teresa’s Church. They called themselves the (inaudible) at first, and then they became The Sons of the Devil motorcycle club. There were only about four or five of us. But later on, that’s when Cha-Cha got locked up around that time. He came out with something new, and that was a red book by [00:42:00] Mao Zedong, Stalin, Lenin. It was very confusing to me at first because communism -- I didn’t see it as communism. I understood commune as people getting together. By now, there’s a lot of communes going because a lot of hippies, and people living together, and the free love thing came out, and everything. What Cha-Cha was talking about now was liberation. He was talking about independence. He was talking about self-determination. And I went back to work with the Young Lords -or to the Young Lords, and was being re-educated with these things, [00:43:00] 17 �reading these books and different type of mentality, different way of looking at things. Me, I always saw it as my people needs help. This is my people, this is what we’re gonna to fight for. And it became a fight. It became a war. Not like the war that my parents were fighting. My parents were fighting a whole different type of war. JJ: What were they fighting? DRR: They were fighting the war of keeping their dignity. JJ: What do you mean? DRR: Dignity as far as human beings. Not being mistreated or looked down at, less in their jobs and jobs that turn good hard-working men to start thinking less of themselves then to turn to alcohol, and wife-beating, [00:44:00] and child-beating -- to be able to still feel like men. It was something that was epidemic. Practically all the people were having problems. JJ: How were they doing that? DRR: How were they doing the -JJ: Your parents, how were they keeping dignity? DRR: Oh, no. My father was one that fell into it. My father became a drinker, a drunk. Every Friday night, yes, he brought home what he had to bring home, but he also brought home my mother a war. My mother paid the consequences of all his hardships and the things that he was going through as a man or as a person. It happened to a lot of good men like that. Meantime, now, this is causing problems between fathers and sons. 18 �JJ: [00:45:00] So he was going through some things and it was impacting her? It was affecting her? DRR: Well, it was impacting her because she was the one that was getting beat up. JJ: Oh, so he was beating her up. DRR: She was the one that had to go to work with a black eye, she was the one that always had to put up with the fact that she was told that she was nothing but dirt. Why? I really don’t know. But my mother was a warrior. She kept going. JJ: What did your mother do? How did she respond? DRR: By this time, two of my brothers went into the military. One went into the Air Force which was Nelson, Jose [00:46:00] went into the U.S. Army, 101st Airborne Division. By this time, it was 1967-68. I came home, and I literally moved my mother -- my father went to work, and I went and spoke with my brother, Selsa, and we went to talk to Luis Rivera who owned the store over there on Willow and Halsted, it was a Spanish store. He loaned us the pick-up truck, and we actually found a small apartment on Larrabee Street, and moved my mother out before my father came home from work. That’s how we pulled my mother out of that mess, together with my grandparents. By this time, things were going on in the neighborhood. JJ: So were other men doing the same thing? DRR: [00:47:00] Oh, yeah. A lot of the men. JJ: Do you know of anybody else that was doing that? DRR: I don’t want to mention names because -JJ: Don’t mention names, but can you give me an idea of what it was like? 19 �DRR: Oh, yes. My cousins were going through the same thing. My friends were going through the same thing with their parents. JJ: Why do you think men were going through that? DRR: In Puerto Rico, they went and worked a hard day’s labor and maybe made a dollar or two a day -- a couple of dollars a day, but they took pride in what they did, and men were looked at because their word was their bond. He didn’t have to have a dollar in his pocket, [00:48:00] if he had his word, he had everything. Over here, their word meant something among themselves. Outside their groups, their word was nothing. “I will pay you next week,” meant nothing. They didn’t have the education to get a higher paying job. So over here, to be able to survive, they had to take shit jobs which allowed the other people with better jobs to look down upon them, so now they’re feeling lesser. JJ: So they’re being treated lesser, looked down on. DRR: Lesser, and they went home and just took it out on their own. [00:49:00] It’s just something that it was a great vicious circle. JJ: Were the women getting any help from anything? DRR: Oh, no because if you remember, it wasn’t until the early, mid-’60s that -- you didn’t see no Latino policeman. You didn’t see no Black policeman, you didn’t see Latino firemen, you didn’t see no Black firemen. You didn’t see Latino or Black proprietors until then. It was into the later ’60s that groups like the Young Lords organization, and groups like [00:50:00] later on the Young Lords party, groups like the Comancheros, and the Patriots was the white group, and the Brown Berets, the Black Panther Party. -- it was when groups like this came out 20 �saying, “We have rights. We deserve to be able to this school to get the education we need.” JJ: So that was the older women, right? Our mothers and fathers, that’s what you’re saying. But what about the Young Lordettes? [00:51:00] How did that affect them? (inaudible) Queens? DRR: The Young Lordettes were women which actually were Young Lords, they became the Young Lordettes. When the Young Lords became political, the women became -JJ: (inaudible). DRR: Right, because they were women who were fighting for their rights as women. JJ: I mean before they became political. DRR: Before they became political? JJ: Right. DRR: Before they became political, they were just like any other women. JJ: Getting beat up, too? DRR: Yeah. Just all the gang members pulling their girlfriend’s hair or slapping them. JJ: So the gang members were doing that to (inaudible)? DRR: Definitely. That was their MO, you know? JJ: Okay, so now you’re saying that that [00:52:00] made some changes after the Young Lords became more political? Is that what you’re saying? DRR: Exactly. There was a big change. JJ: How did that happen? DRR: The change was that the women were fighting for their rights, their rights to -- 21 �JJ: What women? I mean which woman was -- DRR: For example, Angie. I admire Angie. I love that woman. One of the strongest women I ever met. She was one that fought for women’s rights, to be equals to their men, not -JJ: She was a Young Lord? DRR: She was a Young Lordette, yes. If you want to call her a Young Lordette after they became political. But she was married to Pancho Lind which was one of the comrades who fell in this, [00:53:00] I would call it, war for civil rights. Her husband was a fallen comrade just like Manuel Ramos, a fallen comrade -- Fred Hamilton, Mark Clark. JJ: So what do you remember the women doing around that time with Angie? What was she looking at (inaudible)? DRR: They were educating the other women in the neighborhood. JJ: Educating, what do you mean? DRR: Educating women in the neighborhood as far as their rights to stand up as women, that they had rights, too, that they didn’t have to take abuse, that they didn’t have to walk underneath or behind, that they were there to walk next to their man. They had equal rights as anybody else and any man there. And Angie [00:54:00] was one person who gave strength to a lot of these women. God bless her. JJ: So how did the gangs take that? DRR: Well, at first, the gangs didn’t think it was too good. Like, “What do you mean? Go make me some coffee,” “Go make it yourself.” “What do you mean go make 22 �it myself?” A lot of things changed. It got to the point where, “Hey, can you make me some coffee?” “Sure, honey, I’ll make you some coffee -- or, “You serve it,” or something. But they went because they wanted to go, not because they were told to go. You learned to treat (laughs) your woman as an equal, and she was a comrade in arms. JJ: So in the Young Lords, they learned to do that? DRR: Oh, the Young Lords did that. JJ: So these are the same Young Lordettes, but now there’s some change -- what kind of changes [00:55:00] did you see? DRR: Oh, I saw a lot of changes. Their attitudes, sure. JJ: I mean you were there with the Young Lordettes when you were a Young Lord. DRR: I saw changes as far as -- and you know what’s funny? Is that a lot of them changed, but there were a few that did not. There were a few that were still accepted being told -- or being submissive to their man. Others were submissive to their man because that’s what they wanted to be not because they had to be, but they also stood for their rights. You know what? The relationships even got stronger because the women actually respected their -- they listened to their man because they respected that man as a comrade, and as an equal, and not as a master. [00:56:00] And those are the things that changed. They weren’t being seen like that anymore. They were women, they were taught to stand up if they were abused or beaten which is what actually really started the big push on battered women. 23 �DRR: But I mean within the Young Lords. What did you see the -- difference? Did you see any difference or there wasn’t any difference? JJ: I saw a lot of difference. The difference was at first, the guys used to hang out on the corner. The girls were there if their boyfriend was there. If their boyfriend wasn’t there, she ain’t gonna hang out because it was disrespectful. How they talked to each other, how they talked to the comrades, or to their friends. [00:57:00] After this, it didn’t matter. The guys were hanging out, the girls wanted to hang out, they came out to hang out. It was okay now. It wasn’t, “You don’t do that to your man,” type of thing. Changes to the point of -- what can I tell you? I can’t really explain it, all I can tell you is that the difference was they were no longer underlings, they were equals in every sense of the word, and you learned to respect them as women and as a comrade. And they were there to help you and fight with you side by side for everything that we were fighting for because while we were doing this, we were fighting. [00:58:00] It was a war. It was a war for our rights. It was a war to be able to say, “This is ours.” We have the right to education, we have the right to choose the school we want to go to. We have the right to be able to become who we want to become. It’s a right that we didn’t have, and it was that group of kids, that half of them didn’t even understand what the hell was going on, all they knew was that they had rights and that’s what they were fighting for. And the Young Lords organization was one that took it there and above and beyond to the recognition of not only in one little spot in Chicago called the Lincoln Park area, but it spread out to New York, Pennsylvania, 24 �California, and it got to be known [00:59:00] around the world as a movement for the rights of the human being. JJ: And so your parents came in the ’50s, and they settled around, you said, Clybourn and North Avenue? DRR: Yes, North Avenue. JJ: Dayton Street, right around there. That little area, how did that build up? So that means that there was a few Puerto Ricans moving into that area. DRR: Yeah, the Puerto Ricans started moving in -JJ: How did Lincoln Park look? DRR: -- the mid-’50s. JJ: Yeah, how did Lincoln Park look? DRR: They started moving in from like 63rd and Halsted down to around Clark and Division, and they kept moving further north, and they came around the western part of the Lincoln Park area west of Halsted. [01:00:00] And then after the mid’60s, they started moving towards east of Halsted, and started actually -- Halsted and Armitage, all those big tenement buildings, Sheffield and Armitage, Racine and Armitage, that area. The high school became more Latino-populated with kids. JJ: Waller High School? DRR: Waller High School, mostly. Lakeview High School. The Lincoln Park area is what you would call a few years ago the Humboldt Park area. That’s where the majority of the Puerto Ricans lived until the late ’60s [01:01:00] the Young Lords were fighting against urban renewal. 25 �JJ: So the neighborhood grew into Puerto Ricans, it became (inaudible) all over the place. DRR: Mostly Puerto Ricans, exactly. JJ: When did you start noticing the change, and then what was taking place with other families there? When did you start noticing? We’re going the opposite way. (laughs) DRR: 1962, 1963 -- ’61-’62, that’s when the Lincoln Park area started to flourish. When Arnold Upper Grade Center opened up again in the school year of ’62 and ’63, by this time more Puerto Ricans had moved in, more families had moved in. By this time, you already had [01:02:00] like restaurants, small restaurants, Hispanic restaurants and grocery stores like Luis Rivera’s store over on Willow and Halsted. You had the stores over on Armitage and Halsted. So it was growing to the point where it was home. Actually, it was our neighborhood. It was the Puerto Rican neighborhood, really. A lot of other stores moved out. [01:03:00] But with it, came the resistance because now there was not only the white gangs to deal with, now it was politics. You’re talkin’ about McCutcheon, for example. JJ: McCutcheon, who is he? DRR: The alderman. What was his name? Big Jim or -- I forgot their names. They were more like mafias types that had to do with the government. JJ: McCutcheon, alderman? DRR: Well, McCutcheon was the one whose office was blown up over there on -JJ: You mean other organizations? DRR: Yeah, other organizations. I can’t really -- 26 �JJ: The Lincoln Park neighborhood association. People like that? DRR: People like that, yeah. It had to do more with gangster type [01:04:00] organizations. JJ: But they weren’t gangsters, they were -- DRR: Business people. JJ: They were business people. DRR: Yeah. No gangsters, (laughs) (inaudible) people. JJ: (inaudible) gangsters. I know that there were some little gangsters at Bissell Realty and the real estate company. DRR: Exactly. JJ: They were like gangsters. The real estate companies were gangsters. DRR: That’s what I always believed. JJ: How would you believe that? DRR: I always believed that because it was just the way they carried out their business, the way they -JJ: Real estate people look like gangsters to you? DRR: Mm-hmm. JJ: They’re supposed to be business, but you thought they looked like gangsters. DRR: They looked like gangsters to me. They looked like gangsters to me, unless I was stereotyping ’em. I’m not sure, I might have been. But to me, they were all in the same club. [01:05:00] And I’m talking about the real estate people, the aldermen, and everybody else in that. JJ: They looked like gangsters to you? 27 �DRR: Yeah. JJ: They didn’t look like legitimate business people? DRR: Well, they might have been legitimate because they had the paperwork. I don’t know. To me, it was all a front. JJ: Are you just saying that because you became political? Or are you just saying that because you felt it? DRR: No. I looked at them, and it was like if I was sittin’ on this side on the street looking at our group, only they were a lot better organized, that’s why. JJ: So it was like another gang -- gangsters. DRR: [01:06:00] Yeah, but better. JJ: Okay, so it wasn’t business people like you go to Walmart or -- DRR: No, definitely not. JJ: It was not like that. Okay, so we’re dealing at Lincoln Park -- we’re dealing with gangsters. DRR: Exactly. We were dealing with [other things?]. JJ: And Fat Larry (inaudible). DRR: Fat Larry, yeah. JJ: He was clearly a gangster (inaudible). So you’re saying the rest of the real estate people -- DRR: I believed they were all tied up in all of that because I’ll tell you, you think, for example, anybody that ever came to help us, let’s say -- and I’m talking about, for example, [01:07:00] when we took over People’s Church. Everybody expected 28 �Reverend Johnson to kick us out and turn against us, but instead he decided to be with us and help us. Weeks later, he was stabbed to death with his wife. JJ: Who do you think did that? DRR: Who do I think, personally? JJ: Yeah, personally. DRR: Personally think that? I think they were the ones that did it. Those gangster types because they figured they get rid of him, they get rid of us because us being there was causing them a whole lot of trouble. Their businesses, they couldn’t run ’em as they’re supposed to. People didn’t want to buy houses there. [01:08:00] We became like bad news. And, remember, what they wanted was rich people or people with money to buy those properties because that’s why they wanted us out of there. But we were resistant. And definitely they couldn’t go out and kill half of us which they did because they did kill a few of us. No matter who pulled the trigger, there’s quite a few of us that died in those battles. And I named some names before. Manuel, Pancho, Mark, Fred -- you keep on naming ’em -- Martin Luther King, Malcom X, all these were killed in this war, [01:09:00] and a lot of times others were tried. For me, how did they tear us apart? The biggest weapon they ever used was drugs. And those drugs were not introduced by our own people. In the immediate sight, yes; behind the scenes, no. They couldn’t beat us with guns, they couldn’t beat us with force because we fought back, the same way we fought back the day of the fiesta at the church. JJ: Tell me about that fiesta. What was that all about? 29 �DRR: We were celebrating People’s Church, and we were having a big fiesta right outside the church, and we had asked permission to [01:10:00] McCutcheon, as a matter of fact, to give us permission to block Dayton Street on Armitage and Dayton Street at the alley. That way everybody that lives on that side of the church could come down Dayton and pull out on the alleys and go up to the other streets. After they said yes, they said no. After they gave us the permission, they said no, and they send out the storm troopers. The storm troopers came, they arrested four or five of our guys that went out to get some gasoline for the generators, and you -- they were looking for you, so you had to go into the church, and everything going was crazy. But there must have been 200-300 policeman out there in riot gear, [01:11:00] plus the ones parked at the high school waiting, hundreds more. JJ: Oh, so they had some at the high school. DRR: Yeah, they had a lot of them. So that’s when you told me to go out there and speak because the captain wanted to -- or the commander wanted to tell us to break it up. And I did. And after him and I spoke, he ended up -- it was better to close the street, give us our wish, let us have our party, leave a few of his policeman there, if we promised to clean up and throw all the garbage away afterwards. And I gave him my word that we would, he blocked off the streets, [01:12:00] he blocked it off at the alley and on Armitage, and we had a wonderful party. JJ: And a victory for the community. DRR: Yeah, a big party for the community, yeah. And I got to hand it -- 30 �JJ: That’s the one that’s on the website of Grand Valley State University, that block party, that’s on there. DRR: That block party? JJ: That’s (inaudible). DRR: Oh, that’s (inaudible). JJ: So what other things were you involved in with the Young Lords once they became political? DRR: My job? JJ: Once they became political, what other events do you remember? DRR: Well, I went to speak at a few universities and picked up donations. I was involved in the People’s Park. JJ: What was that? What was that about? DDR: The People’s Park [01:13:00] was when they came down to tear up the -- they tore down the tenement buildings, and then they decided they were gonna start doing the groundwork, and we got hundreds of people to come that one night and we formed a human chain right in front of Halsted and Armitage and blocked the bulldozers from getting on the land. And then the next day, all through that night, we worked moving rocks and things and cleaning up the lot. And the next day, somebody donated a jungle gym and some swings and we made it into People’s Park, a playground. And so that was a stand because we stood out all night. [01:14:00] I remember doing camp fires out there with the people. I was also involved with the Venceremos Brigade. JJ: Yeah, talk about that. What was that about? 31 �DRR: I was put in charge of looking for volunteers to go cut sugar cane in Cuba. JJ: Why were you doing that? DRR: Because Castro was calling it the harvest of the ten million (inaudible), [la zafra de los diez millones?]. They were trying to get at least ten million (inaudible) sugar. Not only with their own macheteros, they were using macheteros from here, volunteers. And 1970 was the first group, 1971 -- [01:15:00] I believe it was ’70 I went to Cuba. We went down there with about 400 strong to cut sugar cane from daylight to sundown to help them with their harvest. Also, my activities with the Young Lords, my activities with the other countries also got me into a committee called (inaudible) that took me to -- got myself invited to China, and I went to Mainland China as a guest of the Chinese government. JJ: How long were you there? DRR: I was there for about three weeks. That was in 1971. As a matter of fact, while I was there, [01:16:00] that’s when Hoover died. J. Edgar Hoover died while we were sittin’ in China because China was celebrating. They actually celebrated. (laughs) I became very political and got to be well-known. And the things that I did do, like speak at the universities, what happened at the church -JJ: And your title in the Young Lords, what was it? DRR: What? JJ: What was your title? DRR: My title with the Young Lords? National field marshal. And you gave me that title from the beginning, and to this day I wear it. I’ve been national field marshal for now what? Fifty years? (laughter) 32 �JJ: So your family, what happened after Lincoln Park? DRR: [01:17:00] After Lincoln Park, well, my mother and father got divorced. My mother bought a house in Lincoln Park. It was funny because we bought that house for $24,500. JJ: Where was it at? DRR: On Howe Street. Yep, $24,500. And when she passed away, they sold that house for $110,000. That house a couple of years ago when we went down there just on a memory lane trip, I think it was going for about a million and a quarter. Same house. JJ: So the property went up through the years. DRR: (laughs) It really went up. JJ: Are there any Puerto Ricans -- DRR: Very, very, very few. JJ: today at Lincoln Park? DRR: Very few. JJ: [01:18:00] After the years went by, what do you think that they were trying to do in Lincoln Park? Why did they want to kick out the Puerto Ricans? DRR: Well, they wanted an area that was close to the lake, close to downtown. It had two diagonal streets which was Lincoln and Clark, easy exit to the Gold Coast, a short drive. They actually wanted a suburb, an inner-city suburb, you can call it. And from there, they kicked us out to -- and pushed us out towards Humboldt Park. And today, they’re kicking us out of Humboldt Park. JJ: How come the Puerto Ricans didn’t rebel? Why didn’t they [01:19:00] fight back? 33 �DRR: You know what I think it was? I believe that our parents came and they took what they had to take because they didn’t know how to fight back or they feared to fight back. It took us to fight what we really wanted for. And it took us because, believe it or not, it damaged us in a lot of ways. And soldiers of freedom fighters that we were. We took the beating in order for our children today and our grandchildren [01:20:00] today to be able to go to school the way they’re doing. We have children and grandchildren who are cops, lawyers, I got one that’s a doctor because they were able to go to these schools that they needed to. JJ: How many grandchildren do you have? DRR: I got 36 grandkids. JJ: Any great-grandkids? DRR: Yeah, about 16 of them. But today, I talk with them -JJ: And they still call you a gang member? DRR: (laughs) Well, one of them called me a sit under the tree, old type of grandpa. But what I’m saying is that we took it so that our children can enjoy what they’re doing. I speak with my grandchildren today, and I told them, “Did you know that at one time you couldn’t go to the same restaurant and buy a hamburger where this guy went?” [01:21:00] “Oh, come on, Grandpa.” “Did you know that sometimes you couldn’t go to this school just because you wanted to?” They didn’t know that. Thank goodness that somebody -JJ: Why are you telling them that? 34 �DRR: It’s like you say, why did they stop fighting? Because they believe now that they still have everything. And I hate to say it, but this guy, Trump, best thing he ever did was run for president because he sure woke up a lot of people to reality and what’s really going on. He woke them up with a slap in the face. JJ: On that note, I mean he woke them up. So the Young Lords [01:22:00] fought back in Lincoln Park, but they kicked all the Puerto Ricans out of there. So did the Young Lords win or did they lose? DRR: You know, that’s a good question. I like to feel like I won. JJ: What do you mean? Why do you say that? DRR: I won that battle, we won that battle. JJ: Why? What makes you say that? DRR: Because if you look at today’s people’s lifestyles, our people’s lifestyles, they’re 100 percent better than what they were for us, and that’s because our children and our grandchildren were able to benefit from what we fought for. [01:23:00] We moved out, but we didn’t leave everything, we took a lot with us. And our kids today are what they are today and it’s because of people like the Young Lords. And half of us really didn’t know -- we knew where we wanted to go and what we wanted, but we didn’t understand the impact of it all. How many Latino policemen do we have today? Lawyers? Firemen? How many Latino judges do we have? How many [01:24:00] Latino channels do we have? How many Latino stores? Today even Winn-Dixie has Latino stores. And it all came back from the Latino people, the Puerto Rican people -- let’s say Latino people -- because it wasn’t just Puerto Ricans, it was every single Latino nation out there that fought. 35 �If we have all this today, our kids, our grandkids, that was because of people like the Young Lords. JJ: Any final thoughts? DRR: Don’t give up. Don’t give up, keep fighting, there’s always something to fight for. There’s always something [01:25:00] that belongs to you, and you have the right to have it. JJ: What’s the most important thing that you feel that the Young Lords contributed to Puerto Rican and other people -- other oppressed people? Or just other people in general. DRR: What the Young Lords contributed? JJ: That people should know about. DRR: That a group no matter how meaningless it may seem, how meaningful and powerful it can be [01:26:00] if you’re fighting for what you believe in. JJ: Any more final thoughts? DRR: I was going to say you can tell stories, we’d be here forever. JJ: I got one. How many grandkids did you say you have? DRR: Thirty-six. JJ: And how many grandkids? DRR: Great-grandkids? JJ: Well, yeah, great-grandkids. DRR: Great-grandkids, about 16. JJ: So 16 and 36. So how many kids do you have? And we didn’t say their names, what are their names? 36 �DRR: Oh, my children, I have -- there’s David, Jr. David II; there’s Latisha, there’s Le’Von, biological. [01:27:00] My other children are Laura, Marianna, Diana -she’s with God -- and Chrissie, and Charlene. Those are my heart-so-logical children. JJ: What do you want them to know about David Rivera Reyes? DRR: Not too much, I hope. (laughter) JJ: What do you want them to know? DRR: I just want them to know that whatever might have seemed crazy, if they see this video, that they find out and keep it in mind that everything they have and the power that they have today was because of people like their dad [01:28:00] who were willing to sacrifice what they needed to sacrifice for them to have what they have today, and the rights that they have today. And they have other rights which they should continue to fight for. JJ: Okay, thank you. END OF VIDEO FILE 37 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9ea322b072a5625461c5331c75503bc9.mp4 a17c94fb451c10351d1a0e1c988d9003 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry David Rivera Reyes vídeo entrevista y biografía, entrevista 1 Descripción Spanish language Description entry La historia oral de David Rivera Reyes, entrevistado por Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez el 01/12/2011 acerca de los Young Lords en Lincoln Park. Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Narrativas personales Justicia social Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Reyes_David_Rivera Title A name given to the resource David Rivera Reyes video interview and transcript, interview 1 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Reyes, David Rivera Description An account of the resource Oral history of David Rivera Reyes, interviewed by Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez, on 01/12/2011 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Young Lords collection (RHC-65) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-01-12 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/368516a9ec50d07c86667225c7efbc22.pdf a8f472dfae7898993e100cdce240aefb PDF Text Text Young   L ords   In  Lincoln  Park   Interviewee:  Lawrence  Reyes   Interviewers:  Jose  Jimenez   Location:  Grand  Valley  State  University  Special  Collections   Date:  10/4/2016   Runtime:  00:45:41         Biography  and  Description   Oral  history  of  Lawrence  Reyes,  interviewed  by  Jose  “Cha-­‐Cha”  Jimenez  on  October  04,  2016  about  the   Young  Lords  in  Lincoln  Park.   Lawrence  was  born  on  July  7,  1958    at  St.  Vincent  Hospital  in  New  York  City’s  Village  area.  The   family  soon  moved  to  El  Barrio  around  122nd  and  Amsterdam  which  was  primarily  Puerto  Rican.   He  is  one  of  12  siblings  including  his  U.S.  veteran  brother,  Junior  who  was  also  a  member  of  the   Young  Lords.  His  father  was  a  store  manager  in  downtown  Manhattan  and  his  mother  worked  as  a   janitor.  The  environment  of  El  Barrio  was  gang  and  drug  infested  and  Lawrence  dropped  out  of  9th   grade  at  John  Jay  Dewey  High  School  and  eventually  became  addicted  to  hard  drugs  going  in  and   out  of  prison,  including  a  robbery.  He  states  that  it  was  a  hopeless  case  for  him  until  his   involvement  with  the  Young  Lords.  Today  he  has  been  “clean”  34  years  and  has  worked  for  county   and  state  governments,  as  a  substance  abuse  counselor.   �Lawrence  states  that  his  father  was  a  “Puerto  Rican  Republican.”  His  mother  was  the  complete   opposite  and  she  taught  the  children  Puerto  Rican  history  and  about  Don  Pedro  Albizu  Campos  and   the  Nacionalistas.  His  sister  Hilda  Morales  later,  was  a  part  of  the  Young  Lords  central  committee  in   New  York.  The  last  action  he  remembers  was  when  the  city  was  leading  the  New  York  Puerto  Rican   parade  and  the  people  and  Young  Lords  reacted  and  fought  the  police.  He  is  joined  in  the  oral   history  with  co-­‐activists  Jorge  Luis  Rivera  and  Adam  Rice  who  are  proactive  with  him  in  Los   Angeles.   �Transcript JOSE JIMENEZ: If you could give me your name and where you were born. LAWRENCE REYES: JJ: Lawrence Reyes. New York City, New York. If you could give us your name, and where you were born, and maybe your age and (inaudible). LR: Sure. So my name Lawrence Reyes, I was born in New York City, New York. Coming from a pretty good family, you know, 12; 10 sisters and a brother. JJ: What are some of their names? LR: Oh, okay, so my sister’s name is Martha, Doreen, Eva, Lillian, the twins: Eunice and Euphacine, Gilda, and Doreen. And my brother’s name is Juan, Jr. who [00:01:00] was also a Young Lord and a Vietnam veteran. JJ: You were in New York, what part of New York? LR: I was in New York City, New York, in Manhattan in El Barrio. JJ: Were you born there? LR: No, I was born in St. Vincent’s Hospital in Village in New York, and we lived there for a while, then we moved uptown to El Barrio, and that’s where I grew up. JJ: El Barrio, (inaudible). LR: Yeah, El Barrio was 122nd Street and Amsterdam which was a predominantly Puerto Rican neighborhood at the time, and my mom was a janitor at Fulton County Hospital which is Brooklyn County. And my father was a store manager [00:02:00] in downtown Manhattan off of Wall Street by the World Trade Center. JJ: Where did you go to school? 1 �LR: I went to school at John Jay Dewey High School, and I subsequently dropped out of the ninth grade. My first year of school, I dropped out because it was a hopeless situation. We didn’t have too many resources, and we were impoverished, and we lived in a very impoverished neighborhood. And the Young Lords addressed that impoverishment with the cleaning up the trash program that -- in Harlem, in Spanish Harlem. And so that was my first [00:03:00] introduction to the Young Lords. I got into drugs and alcohol at the time. I was arrested, placed in juvenile hall. I was a hopeless case. I came out, committed a robbery, ended up in state prison in New York. And from there, I led a life of crime, and drug addiction, and alcoholism. JJ: (inaudible). LR: Yeah. Heroin, cocaine, speed. JJ: (inaudible). LR: Yeah, heroin was real big, yeah. LR: So you spent some time in jail and then -- LR: Yeah, I spent some time in jail, and the last stretch that I did was when I reawoken politically. And I went to school, got a GED, and then went to college, got a degree in human behavior because I wanted to work with people. And then from there, [00:04:00] I came out, and I started working for county working with youth, at the time working with the youth employment program. And what we would do is we would get jobs out to youth who were at risk and also coming from an impoverished urban setting. JJ: (inaudible). And so can you describe would (inaudible)? 2 �LR: A regular day with the Young Lords was always seeking to organize the community, working with the community especially when there was a lot of trash because the city sanitation department was not coming around and picking up the trash. So we asked the people what they wanted, and they said, “We want the garbage gone.” So that’s when [00:05:00] we started cleaning garbage -literally bags and bags of garbage, and then we threw them in the street and we made the sanitation department come and get it. JJ: (inaudible). LR: Yes, sir. JJ: (inaudible). LR: Yeah, we put it in the front because it was a big issue and so was a lot of the -you know, there was no nutrition program. The Black Panther nutrition program came into play for a lot of us. I was a product of the Black Panther Precious Program where they fed children and gave groceries out to families. And then from there, the Palante newspaper was when I started -- selling the Palante newspaper [00:06:00] around all over the place. There was always some kind of protest or some kind of action. I was outside when they took over -- when the Young Lords took over Lincoln Hospital. And I was outside, the Young Lords had occupied it, I was outside selling papers, and my sisters and my brothers were inside the hospital. So that was my first sense of pride, you know, that -- JJ: (inaudible). LR: I was cadre. JJ: (inaudible). 3 �LR: Okay, yeah, I felt it was important work. I felt that I had a sense of purpose other than what I was exposed to in my living environment. There was a sense of purpose that you know what? We’re gonna make a difference. [00:07:00] We were gonna help the people. So after that, we ran into Panama, Felipe Luciano, Yoruba, Iris, and they were a very powerful cadre as well. My sister was in the central committee once they opened it up to women because -- JJ: What was her name? LR: Gilda Morales. It was just happening, man, all over the place. It was just such a sense of pride that we shouldn’t be ashamed of our hair, our heritage, the way people looked us down ’cause we were colonized people. Just because we were colonized people doesn’t mean [00:08:00] that we were less human than anybody else. And once we got in touch and became consciousness about the colonization that was going on amongst our own people -- you know, there was an argument about pelo malo, pelo bueno, which states that bad hair, good hair - you know, good hair was straight hair, bad hair was the kind of hair Puerto Ricans have -- a lot of Puerto Ricans have, like curly hair. And our African heritage would show because we were a mixture of three races: Spanish, English, and Indian. So the Young Lords gave us pride. And, also the Young Lords were one of the reasons I quit school, too. I was gonna quit school [00:09:00] anyway ’cause I was already into drugs. And then by 1973, it seemed like after the melee or the riot against the police at the Puerto Rican Day parade - JJ: (inaudible). 4 �LR: Well, the police were engaged in a lot of police brutality, a lot of racism within the police. And they came and wanted -- and led the Puerto Rican Day parade. And we made a statement at the time that we weren’t gonna allow pigs to lead our parade. So we engaged in resistance, and we engaged in what was described as a riot by the Young Lords. JJ: It turned into a riot. LR: It turned into a riot. [00:10:00] And so as we scampered away from the pigs, we went to Columbus Circle and drenched a statue with red paint. At the time, that was big news and we were blamed for it. And I’m not saying that we’re taking the credit for doing that ’cause that was -- it was a political act when we did it, a form of protest. JJ: So, now, was your family political? LR: My family was very political. JJ: Your parents were political? LR: Yeah, my mom -- JJ: (inaudible). LR: Sure. My mother’s name is Hilda Hernandez. She was born in Orocovis, Puerto Rico. She was born in Orocovis -- want to go by the pool? [00:11:00] Hilda Hernandez, born in Orocovis, Puerto Rico which was just way up in the mountains. JJ: (inaudible). LR: Orocovis, yeah. Orocovis, Puerto Rico which is named after a chief, a Taino chief. So she was born up there, and her family were nationalists. And my father 5 �was born in Ponce, his name is Juan Hernandez, and he was ashamed of being Puerto Rican where my mother wasn’t. JJ: (inaudible). RL: Well, he thought that Puerto Ricans shouldn’t be too [00:12:00] revolutionary. And Ponce at the time was very pro-statehood at the time, and he grew up in a family that worked in Bacardi Rum in Ponce, and Bacardi Rum is owned by a Cuban oligarch. Yeah, (inaudible) and Bacardi were Cuban oligarchs, and so they instilled in their workers a sense of U.S. colonialism, you know, “Be American, be grateful for the American system. You got jobs.” So he felt ashamed. My father was a Puerto Rican Republican. (laughs) My father was a Puerto Rican Republican, my mom was the [00:13:00] [stoic?]. She was like the rock, she was the one that taught us about Albizu, she was the one told us stories about Puerto Rico, she was the one that was very proud of being Puerto Rican because she knew that the political system was a sham in Puerto Rico. She didn’t like Don Luis Muñoz Marin who was a colonizer, sold out to the U.S. government, so she didn’t like him. So she told us a lot of stories about Puerto Rico and about Luis Ruiz, and Hostos, and Don Pedro Albizu Campos, Lolita Lebrón, Blanca Canales, and about how they stood up against the U.S. government. JJ: [00:14:00] (inaudible). LR: My friends were very political. JJ: When you were growing up? LR: When I was growing up -- 6 �JJ: (inaudible). LR: Oh, well, yeah, the ones that were getting high, they weren’t too political. The politics were getting high. But, yet, there was a lot of them that were political, there was a lot of them that knew that we were in a hopeless situation, that what we were doing was counter-productive to the movement. But then again, we also thought that the movement was infiltrated with drugs, a lot of drugs, so it could kill the movement, undermine the movement. So it wasn’t till I got older was when I became reawoken politically, and started working with youth, and started working as a social worker, and then I became a substance abuse counselor. And now [00:15:00] even today, I have quite a story to tell. I mean I’m clean and sober 34 years. I speak on subjects of mental illness and drug addiction. They consider me to be an expert. I have two felonies, but yet I work for the government because I’ve been -- well, the felonies were all drug-related, but I told the truth about my past and the government hired me. So I work for the government right now as a substance abuse counselor. JJ: (inaudible). LR: At the county government, yeah, for the state of California, county government, yeah. And my first job as a youth counselor was with New York, New York City, [00:16:00] Department of Employment. We were specifically targeting youth to give ’em jobs, and empower them into college, and link ’em up to community organizations that would expound records, that would work -- wrap around with their families. So it was a good thing, I felt like I was doing something good. JJ: So how did you get into (inaudible)? 7 �LR: Well, I got into it while I was in prison. I -- JJ: You talking about the government? LR: No, I didn’t get the job like that, but I got the education. I got the education like that, and then once I got out, I went to Second Chance. Second Chance is a project in New York that gives people that have been -- it’s incarcerated people. JJ: [00:17:00] Ex-offenders. LR: Yes, ex-offenders, that’s what they used to call them then. Now they call them formerly incarcerated. So they linked me up to Manpower, and then Manpower hooked up me with CIDA which is a government-run program that trains people how to become youth counselors. So I got that training and then I got hired by the state of New York as a -- specifically as a formerly incarcerated person to work with at-risk youth. So that’s what I did for nine years, and then I went back to school, I ended up at UCLA, right here in California, got another degree. JJ: (inaudible). LR: I got it from New York, but I left New York and moved to New Jersey. [00:18:00] I lived in Newark. And at the time, there was Young Lords in Newark, too. So we moved to Newark because my mom was trying to get us out of the pot, to get us off the grill, so to speak. So we went to Newark, and from Newark, after a while, I went to work for Essex County Newark. Essex County, New Jersey, Newark, and I worked as a alcohol and drug specialist. Then from there, I moved to Pennsylvania, and in Pennsylvania I became the first Latino to work in -- it made the newspapers -- to work at a youth facility for [00:19:00] Lehigh Valley in Pennsylvania, yeah. Over there by Bethlehem. And so -- 8 �JJ: (inaudible). LR: Yeah, they’re a steel town, yeah. And there were a lot of kids who were going in the wrong direction. Let me just grab my coffee real quick, gotta swallow that. JJ: So how long were you in Bethlehem? (inaudible). LR: Bethlehem, yeah, it’s very historical. I was there for seven years. JJ: (inaudible). LR: The community was -- yes, it was increasingly becoming more Puerto Rican, and Allentown eventually did become a Puerto Rican town. They used to call it Puerto Rican Town ’cause that’s how many people -- Puerto Ricans that were in Pennsylvania at the time, and there was a lot of Puerto Ricans in Philadelphia, too. But Allentown was -- we sort of took it over. JJ: [00:20:00] Okay, so Allentown (inaudible). LR: Yeah, Allentown was a very concentrated community of Puerto Ricans that originally went out to Pennsylvania to work in the steel mills and built a lot of the structures, and they worked in the foundries of Pennsylvania. JJ: (inaudible). LR: That’s okay. JJ: (inaudible) farms (inaudible). LR: A lot of what? JJ: Farms (inaudible). LR: Farms? JJ: (inaudible) Puerto Rican farm (inaudible). 9 �LR: Yeah. Actually, when -- this is the story that my mom told me. When she came to New York, she went to pick apples in the apple orchards up in mid-state New York before she met my father, and that’s how she became [00:21:00] more of a domestic worker. But, yeah, I met farmers from -- JJ: (inaudible). LR: My mom was a supporter of Albizu Campos. JJ: And she picked apples, too? LR: She picked apples, too, yeah. JJ: (inaudible). LR: No, I don’t think so. I don’t know. JJ: (inaudible). LR: (Spanish) [00:21:27 - 21:35] Don Pedro Albizu Campos was a very gifted orator. It sounded like he was always screaming, he was just talking like any Puerto Rican would talk when you had something to say. But he was tortured by the U.S. government, given radiation [00:22:00] treatments by the U.S. government. He was put in La Princesa and they called him “El Hombre de las Toallas” which was “the man of the towels” because as he was being radiated in prison, he would wrap himself up with these towels so he wouldn’t get radiated. So that’s why they called him “El Hombre de las Toallas.” But he spoke truth to power. He spoke truth against the imperialist system of the United States that was governing Puerto Ricans any which way that they wanted to. And he also organized the sugar cane workers. He organized the sugar cane workers which, at the time, they were getting paid like a nickel [00:23:00] a day or something like 10 �that, and he got them an hourly wage. And I guess that was a concession to see if they could buy him out, but he didn’t. He continued to talk truth to power, and they continued to arrest him and radiate him to the point where he was released as a political prisoner in 1964, and in 1965, he died of radiation poisoning. JJ: (inaudible) teaching you this? LR: My mom was teaching us that. She taught us that. JJ: How did you feel about what your mother was telling you? LR: How did I feel about my mom telling me that? I felt angry. I felt angry, but I also felt proud of my mom for sharing that, for letting us know about our history, about our heritage, and about the role that the United States and the public Puerto Rican government which [00:24:00] still exists today and is compliciting with the United States in continuing to colonize our people and abuse our land. And I think it was a very, very important history lesson that my mom was telling us ’cause I don’t think I would have ever learned that till I got to Brooklyn College. When I got to Brooklyn College, then we sat in for Puerto Rican studies department. I know I’m jumping a little bit, but it was a segue because we took over Brooklyn College because we wanted Puerto Rican studies to be taught. And it took us two years sitting in in Brooklyn College -- JJ: (inaudible)? LR: Sat in for two years, Brooklyn College. JJ: (inaudible). LR: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean we would go to class. The building that we took over was never left alone. [00:25:00] And we were blasting salsa music, and having 11 �parties, and, you know, keep the morale up, you know? So to speak. So that was a very important event, too, because at the same time that we were fighting for the Puerto Ricans studies department at Brooklyn College, there was also apartheid going on. So we aligned ourselves with apartheid people and people who were fighting the Central American wars -- you know, the Central American people, students. That’s yours, right? That’s yours. So, no, no, no, my mother’s history lessons were always well-received by us except for my -- there’s one sister that didn’t like ’em, and she ended up in the Young Lords anyway. Gilda Moralez. JJ: [00:26:00] So you work in the radio (inaudible)? LR: No, I don’t work in that -- he works in the radio station, but I’m a volunteer for the Pacifica Network. I’ve been on the board and I’ve been on the Pacifica National Board. But that’s a whole ’nother set of politics. There’s basically people who are fighting for their communities. It goes back to the Young Lords, what the Young Lords taught me, that you fight for the communities and that you involve the community and that this is such a resource -- Pacifica Radio, five networks throughout the United States and 230 affiliates. This is such a network that I believe that’s the only reason it’s worth fighting for is because like my home station is KPFK in Los Angeles which is Adam’s show you’re gonna be on. [00:27:00] But KPFK Pacifica Radio in Los Angeles is a resource for the community, and the new general manager that’s managing the station now is community-based, grassroots-oriented, a beautiful woman, very sharp, very 12 �intelligent woman. Her name is Leslie Radford. So I just want to give Leslie a shout-out for her -JJ: (inaudible). LR: It’s affirmative, yeah. ’Cause she’s brought the radio to the community again. And she’s getting a lot of pushback, a lot of resistance from the Liberals -- and I wouldn’t even say the Liberals, I would say the center-right Republicans. And they’re just really provocateurs, [00:28:00] and really people who are not rooted in the community, and who don’t want the radio station to be rooted in the community. They want it to be sort of like a public radio which is not -- public radio is funded by (inaudible), and people who modify foods, and people who are using -- Chevron or Exxon Mobil. You know, these are people who are using the new possibility of the energy grid to be used by these oligarchs. So this is why the Pacifica Network’s important. This is why the Pacifica Network’s important, yeah. JJ: [00:29:00] (inaudible). LR: Yeah, there’s a lot of Puerto Ricans in LA. It’s more like scatter-Ricans, right? We’re pretty scattered. But there’s a new organization in LA, I’ve been coordinating an organization called the Puerto Rican Alliance since I left Brooklyn College. JJ: (inaudible). LR: No, they know that. JJ: (inaudible). LR: Really? Somebody told me that, some Brown Beret told me that. 13 �JJ: (inaudible). LR: Oh, okay. So there’s a Puerto Rican Alliance of Los Angeles which I’ve been coordinating for years, ever since the Vieques struggle, when we got the Navy to leave Vieques. And now there’s a group of very capable-minded, and young, vibrant Puerto Ricans called Puerto Ricans in Action. [00:30:00] So I don’t know if you want to hear from Puerto Ricans in Action. JJ: Yeah. LR: From me or from a member? JJ: (inaudible). LR: Yeah, come on. So I can get some coffee. JJ: Then you gotta come back (inaudible). Give me your name and where you were born. JORGE RIVERA: So my name is Jorge Luis Rivera. I was born in Yauco, Puerto Rico, but was I raised in Connecticut. JJ: You were gonna tell us about -- JR: So Puerto Ricans in action is a group that we formed about six months ago in Los Angeles due to lack of Puerto Ricans in LA, and we wanted to start protesting PROMESA and all the things that were going on on the island, and we wanted to sure that our culture and our history was being taught to the Puerto Ricans that live in LA ’cause a lot of ’em migrate there and some of them don’t know as much [00:31:00] about what’s going on on the island -- and even regular people in general of all races. So we just wanted to feed ’em information about what’s going on, throw events so they know what’s happening about our history. 14 �Last month we threw an event for Grito de Lares, and this month we’re throwing one for Grito de Guerra which, you know, the uprising in 1950. So we’re putting that together right now. So we’re gonna continue to do things like this and give back to the community by doing toy drives, that kind of thing. JJ: What’s PROMESA? JR: PROMESA is a bill that has recently passed basically bringing in La Junta, the fiscal control board, which down in Puerto Rico they’re people assigned by the United States to run the financial aspects and pretty much govern Puerto Rico, and they have full control of where the money goes and where things allocate to. [00:32:00] One of the biggest things on the bill is the minimum wage drops. Anyone under 25, minimum wage is now $4.25. So that means any company that has anyone over 25 can fire that person and hire two other people for the same rate that they were paying the other person. So there’s a lot of protest going on down there now against the newspaper companies ’cause they’re all corrupt, a lot of government officials are corrupt down there, that kind of stuff. JJ: (inaudible). JR: It’s a dictatorship, and, you know, people in Puerto Rico want independence, they want the island to be free. They want the island to be free, they want Oscar Lopez to be free, and we’re not getting [00:33:00] any of that, so we’re starting to make noise because we need them to hear us. JJ: Who is he? JR: Oscar Lopez Rivera is a political prisoner who was in prison 35 years ago for -- JJ: Still in prison? 15 �JR: Still in prison, one of the longest -- and what Lawrence likes to call being in prison for thoughts, for just thinking, he was in prison. And he’s still there and he’s one of the longest in prison political prisoners right now. And they’ve been protesting for years trying to get him freed, and we’re actually -- November 19th there’s a thing in LA where they’re doing a panel where they’re discussing all of the political prisoners right now trying to get them off with Obama before he leaves office. JJ: (inaudible). JR: Yeah, Michael [Novick?] is putting that together. We’ll be present there because we’ll be representing Oscar Lopez. JJ: [00:34:00] (inaudible). JR: He disappeared. (laughs) JJ: Go ahead and give you your name (inaudible). ADAM RICE: Okay, my name’s Adam Rice, and I am the community relations coordinator for KPFK Pacifica Radio. JJ: (inaudible). ADAM RICE: Well, basically, I’ve been there about a year. I came in with the new general manager, Leslie Radford. Previously to that, we worked in an organization called the Anti-Eviction Campaign based around giving rights -mostly around housing, but the enforcement of human rights in general, all 30 articles of the U.N. Declaration. And we bring that sensibility to KPFK because that’s really where it should be. I mean for maybe for the last six or seven years, as Lawrence has discussed earlier, you’ve had [00:35:00] sort of a big shift to the 16 �right. And the problem is it’s shifted to the right and it sort of got stuck. So KPFK gets stuck and it sounds like mid-2000s NPR, but it’s 2016 and the reason it sounds that way is because the people that have been in certain positions for several years have not been really plugged into the community. So what has been initiated under Leslie’s tenure is direct reach out to the community in Los Angeles especially, but also in Chicago, and really trying to build community up here in Berkeley, with Oakland. I don’t know if -- let’s not put this out there where everybody could just (inaudible), but -JJ: (inaudible). AR: Oh, okay. (laughs) But I mean, for example, we want Oakland. [00:36:00] We’ve been working really hard to bring Oakland to KPFK. It should be in KPFK, but you’ve gotta shift an audience. I mean you look at San Francisco, by 2020, it’s gonna be the whitest city in the country. That’s not the same audience as LA. But then you have a centralized thing here in Berkeley, and this is the old Pacifica, and white Berkeley programming is not gonna run in LA which is one of the most diverse cities in the world. I mean it’s really not. So there has to be a shift if the Pacifica Network’s going to survive because it’s been around 57 years. And it has to go back to the mission which is everybody is self-sustaining. You’re there to serve your community. I mean we’re not here, honestly, to be NPR. We are here to be a tool for the community to use to make change, and we’ve done that -- a pretty good job of shifting KPFK to that over the last year, and we’ll continue to do so. [00:37:00] And we want you, Jorge, everybody, that’s what makes KPFK. It’s basically a job -- and I think Leslie described it best, as, “Okay, 17 �my job is to kick the door open and hold that son of bitch open as long as I can, and eventually people are gonna flood it and take it.” And once the people take it, they won’t be able to take it back. It will be ours if we can show unity together. And it’s the biggest thing west of the Mississippi so it’s a real, powerful tool that we can use, 110,000 watts of bully pulpit to bash over Mayor Eric Garcetti’s head to stop him from passing laws that criminalize homeless people having property. I mean and that’s just one example of the psychotic city that is Los Angeles. The head of the police state -- which is why I never went back to Chicago ’cause I’m like, “Okay, we’re fighting on the side of Chicago, working with the Anti-Eviction Campaign, [00:38:00] the POCC,” but here in LA, this is -- we’re the testing grounds. We’re the laboratory right here in the middle of downtown Los Angeles, in Skid Row. And all over south LA, this is the laboratory for the drug war. This is the entrance point for crack cocaine. The city fought so back so hard. And in my mind, I don’t care, people can dispute all day, prove that the CIA brought -flooded the streets of Los Angeles with cocaine. I mean there’s so much history in Los Angeles, and here in Oakland as well, but I’m based in Los Angeles, so I’ve got that LA love. (laughs) But that has repercussions all over the country. And if we can break the police state in Los Angeles, I believe that we can break it all over the country especially with the criminalization of property. And I’m sorry, I got way off topic, [00:39:00] man, but that’s what we want do with KPFK is opening up -- this is the tool that we’ve all been needing. I mean what happens every time we do a demo or something? Oh, how’s the media going to spin it? Like they never get the shit right. It’s always interpreted through an upper-white- 18 �middle class lens. And we don’t have to have it interpreted, we can just go out and say, “This is our shit.” This is Jorge’s generation’s birth right. And it was my generation’s birthright, but it got skipped over because of the crazy right-wing people. We’re taking it back, and we’re going to set it up so we can hand it off. That’s what it needs to be. Thank you. LR: So just to follow-up on what Adam, I’m sure, said already -- the radio station. So the radio station is very critical to the liberation of Puerto Rico [00:40:00] because without that resource, we don’t have any place to voice our concerns about Puerto Rico. And right now, it’s critical mass in terms of what’s happening in Puerto Rico right now with La Junta, PROMESA, and setting back Puerto Rico back to the stone ages in terms of wages for their workers. So it’s really important. And it follows the philosophy of the Black Panthers and the Young Lords. It follows the philosophy of community empowerment, and giving voice to the voices, and community organizing. So that’s why the radio is extremely important as a resource to struggles that are really significant right now and that wouldn’t be heard [00:41:00] any other place -- any other place in the media. KPFK and Pacifica has that potential to address those issues that are affecting Puerto Ricans in the diaspora and Puerto Ricans on the island, so that’s why it’s important. JJ: (inaudible). LR: What’s had the most impact -- the lasting impact? JJ: (inaudible). 19 �LR: Lasting impact is the person I am today. I don’t blame the Young Lords for me dropping out of school. It gave me a sense of purpose even amidst my drug addiction and all of that. It’s hard to get high when you have a mind full of Young Lords and a heart full of Puerto Rico and still [00:42:00] remain high. It just doesn’t work. Drugs don’t work like that anymore. The lasting impact is the work that I do is still related to what the Young Lords taught me -- working in the community, working with the severely mentally ill, the homeless, the drug addicted, the afflicted. That is my purpose today, and I’m just happy that I’m getting paid to do it. So every community that’s suffering -- the African American community with what’s happening in their lives today where the youth are killed with impunity without any regards to any concerns to who they are as human beings. So that tells me a lot about what the Young Lords taught me, that -- not that all lives matter [00:43:00] because all lives didn’t matter to Black Lives Matter, so Black lives do matter. And so I’m involved with that struggle as well, and I will continue to be because that’s what the Young Lords taught me. The Black Panthers and the Young Lords taught me that the people -- the mission is power to the people, it’s giving power to the people. So that’s it. That’s the way I feel and that’s the way I live today. I live as a Young Lord. And I think anybody that has just a touch of what the Young Lord philosophy and the Black Panther program was, and the Young Lords program, that once you have that in you, you’re gonna be a better human being and every human being that you encounter is gonna sense that as well. When Mandela [00:44:00] was alive, they said -- in Puerto Rico they said, “Todos somos macheteros,” because that’s our 20 �aspiration is to be free. Free of the empire, free in the diaspora, free in Puerto Rico, Puerto Rico libre is our aspiration, and that’s what the Young Lords gave me. JJ: (inaudible). LR: Any final thoughts? Well, Cha-Cha, for you, I mean -- I love you, man, for what you did, what you began, and what you founded. It’s an amazing thing, man. I thought I would be dead at [00:45:00] 21 and I’m alive at 60. And that’s all because of (Spanish). And for you, lots of love, man, lots of respect to you. You are one of my heroes, and those are my final thoughts. Thank you. END OF VIDEO FILE 21 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4abe640c96a56cfea3a05e7a94e6d6cc.mp4 ead5c95081e9665b1a901a2bfdeb0053 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry Lawrence Reyes vídeo entrevista y biografía Descripción Spanish language Description entry Historia oral de Lawrence Reyes, entrevistado por José 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez el 23/10/2016 acerca de los Young Lords en Lincoln Park. Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Narrativas personales Justicia social Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Reyes_Lawrence Title A name given to the resource Lawrence Reyes video interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Reyes, Lawrence Description An account of the resource Oral history of Lawrence Reyes, interviewed by Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez on 10/23/2016 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-10-23 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/34b64558d00a7960c3d05d1adeefeb87.m4v 9ee0a3998cc126e13e370d78f5aa891b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1783334ffdafbd2d9deba39b0521c53d.pdf de84a473c04c9db1fd3627c95eee8329 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project Allan Reynolds World War II & Cold War (1946-1961) 51 minutes 14 seconds (00:00:25) Early Life -Born in Grand Haven, Michigan -Most likely born on April 19, 1923 -Lived there for five years -Lived in a big Army tent on the beach -Taught himself how to swim -Caught and sold crabs -Father was a crewmember of a cargo ship -Parents divorced when he was five or six years old -Had a brother two and a half years older than him -After his parents divorced he, his mother, and brother moved to Coopersville, Michigan -Lived on a farm there for six months -Moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan -Moved all over Grand Rapids until they settled on the West Side on Turner Avenue -Went to Creston High School for a few weeks before transferring to Union High School -Graduated from Union High School in 1941 (00:03:45) Enlisting in the Navy -Enlisted in the Navy after graduating from high school -Always wanted to join the Navy and see the world -Wanted to get into naval aviation (00:04:19) Training -Received basic training at Great Lakes Naval Station, Illinois -Sent to Aviation Radio School in San Diego, California -Learned radio code -Learned about radio instruments (gyroscopes, compasses, and radio equipment) -Enjoyed that training -At the end of Aviation Radio School he was allowed to choose Hawaii or Alaska for his station -Chose Alaska because it seemed more adventurous than Hawaii (00:05:35) Start of the War -On December 7, 1941 he was on a mountain overlooking the base in Alaska -Note: Most likely stationed at Naval Air Station Kodiak -Saw planes taking off from the airfield -A group of infantrymen threw him a rifle -He ran down to the base to see what was happening -Ordered to man a machine gun emplacement at the end of the runway -Had never used a machine gun before -Had no idea if Alaska was going to be attacked too �(00:06:40) Battle of the Aleutian Islands -Transferred to Dutch Harbor, Amaknak Island of the Aleutian Islands, Alaska -Flew patrols looking for Japanese ships -If they found any they maintained their distance and reported their finding -Japanese attacked and invaded the Aleutian Islands at Attu and Kiska in June 1942 -Flew raids out of Dutch Harbor against the invading Japanese -Didn't have to directly engage the Japanese -On one occasion they almost sank one of their own submarines -Each patrol plane had a pilot, co-pilot, navigator, radioman (his position) and an engineer (00:09:29) Flight School Pt. 1 -Sent to Naval Air Station Whidbey Island, Washington -Squadron received new aircraft -Volunteered to go to Flight School -Accepted into the program -Received two years of flight training -Started off training in Louisiana with the Piper Cub -Sent to Memphis, Tennessee for training with biplanes -Completed training in Pensacola, Florida with mult-engine aircraft -Trained with the PBY and PBM -Received his pilot wings there -Mother and future-wife came to that ceremony -Loved flying -Beautiful flying over cities at night -On one flight he saw a complete, circular rainbow above the clouds -Flight School kept him out of the fighting (00:13:06) Adjusting to the Navy -Had no problem with Navy discipline -Received the Good Conduct Medal (00:13:20) Leave -Allowed 30 days of leave each year -Didn't use it though because he was busy with Flight School (00:14:20) Flight School Pt. 2 -After the first 30 days of Flight School the majority of training was class work -Learned about navigation, weather maps, law, and aviation history -Upon completion he was an Aviation Pilot, Petty Officer 1st Class as an Ensign -Had a commission -At the bottom of the officer hierarchy -Felt like being a recruit again (00:15:54) Operational Training -Received Operational Training in Jacksonville and Naval Air Station Banana River, Florida -Further training with multi-engine, heavy aircraft with the PBY and PBM -Six months of training (00:16:30) Operation Crossroads -At Bikini Atoll in 1946 for atomic bomb tests with VH-4 Squadron �-His plane was the first to land in the lagoon after the explosion to collect a water sample -Had to wear Geiger counters to monitor radiation exposure -Blast was so bright they couldn't look directly at it -Remembers watching the mushroom cloud roll up into the sky -Gave him an idea of how destructive the atomic bombs used on Japan were (00:18:52) Stationed on the West Coast -After Flight School he was stationed on the West Coast -Never had to engage in combat while he was stationed on the West Coast -Flew patrols over the Pacific Ocean looking for Japanese ships -Flew at 10,000 feet -Had heaters in the plane -Wore cumbersome leather flight suits (00:19:51) Living Conditions in the Navy -While in Bikini Atoll they slept in barracks -In Alaska he slept in a Quonset hut -Got snowed in once -Had a single pot-bellied stove for warmth -Couldn't even open the door -Had to dig their way to the latrine tent (00:21:01) Morale & Contact with Home -Morale was high -Attributes that to the fact that everyone in his squadron were volunteers -Regularly received mail from home -Future-wife wrote him every day (00:22:07) Timeline of World War Two -At the beginning of the war he was stationed in the Aleutian Islands -Spent most of the war in Flight School training around the United States -On the West Coast for the end of the war (00:23:52) Operation Highjump -From the Bikini Atoll his unit returned to the United States to be decommissioned -At the time, the U.S. feared a possible Soviet settlement in Antarctica -Decided to send down military personnel to map Antarctica before they couldn't -Formed two new squadrons to gather intelligence -One squadron was basically wiped out in a crash -Set back the operation because his squadron had to help -Eventually got to Antarctica and began their mapping operations -Mapped and photographed everything from Bellamy's Islands to the Ross Ice Shelf -Got down to Antarctica on Christmas 1946 -He had a trough named after him; Reynolds Trough -Low, long frozen area in Antarctica -Previously undiscovered -Flew along the coast with photographers -Enjoyabe and interesting expedition -Saw huge icebergs and deep, wildly blue crevasses in the glaciers -Discovered a collection of frozen lakes �-Landed in them and took samples -Used seaplanes and launched from the seaplane tenders USS Pine Island and USS Currituck -Slept and ate on the ship that they launched from -Left the Antarctic on April 19, 1947 (his birthday) -Never saw any Soviets during the expedition (00:29:04) Navy Career -He was in the Navy for 10 years and decided to reenlist -Missed his family and thought about getting out, but decided to stay in for 10 more years -Had a wife and three daughters living in Grand Rapids, Michigan at the time -They were able to accompany him at future duty stations -Stationed at Midway, various parts of the U.S., and spent two years in Great Britain -Family was able to accompany him in those places -Able to travel around Europe with his family when he was in Great Britain -Went to Tsingtao, China and Yokosuka, Japan after the Antarctica expedition -Flew patrols in China and Japan -Watched Chinese Communists and Chinese Nationalists fighting near Tsingtao -Eventually returned to the United States -Flew the largest seaplane in service between Alameda, California and Honolulu, Hawaii -Carried personnel and cargo (00:34:06) Navy Legal Officer -Received legal training and became a lawyer in the Navy -Became the legal officer of his squadron -Assigned lawyers to court martial cases -Reviewed court martial cases -Mostly enjoyed that work -Had a conflict with his commanding officer over one case -An officer got drunk and tried to break into the PX -Commander wanted to press chargers -Allan decided that the case ought to be dropped -Felt the case had been mishandled from the start -Commander eventually got removed from the base -Had problems with the civilians on the base (00:38:22) End of Service -Final assignment was back at Great Lakes Naval Station, Illinois -Assigned to the Naval Examining Center -Place that wrote exams for promotions in the Navy -He was in charge of the Processing Department -Corrected the exams and distributed the results of the exams -Retired from the Navy in September 1961 -Spent 20 years and six months in the Navy (00:39:38) Medals �-Received the American Campaign Medal -Received the Antarctica Service Medal -Officially credited with discovering Reynolds Trough (00:40:11) Reflections on Service -Taught him discipline -Learned how to make friends and how to handle losing friends -Taught him leadership and responsibility -He was a shy person until he joined the Navy -Matured with each new responsibility -First duty was being in charge of a platoon in basic training -Able to get another platoon to follow their platoon leader -Enjoyed his 20 years in the Navy -Wanted to stay in for 30 years, but wanted his family to settle down in Grand Rapids (00:43:58) Life after Service Pt. 1 -Daughters attended Union High School as well -Same as himself and as his wife (00:44:40) USO Shows -Got to see some USO Shows during his time in the Navy -Appreciated the entertainment provided by the USO -He was responsible for making sure the USO personnel were entertained -Showed them sights around the base and took them out to dinner (00:45:38) Life after Service Pt. 2 -Easily readjusted to civilian life -Took three months off to relax before looking for work -Got a job with a jewelry manufacturer -Worked for them for 18 years -Started his own engraving business out of his home -Did that for 10 years before retiring again (00:48:00) Stationed in Great Britain -His favorite part of the Navy was being stationed in the U.K. for two years with his family -Got to see a lot of Europe -Everywhere they went had recovered from the war -Saw Germany, Belgium, France, Switzerland, Italy, and the Netherlands -45 day tour with his family -Treated like royalty when people found out they were Americans (00:50:08) Veterans' Group Involvement -Member of the Veterans of Foreign Wars for a while -Sat next to Gerald Ford a few times � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_ReynoldsA1903V Title A name given to the resource Reynolds, Allan Jay (Interview outline and video), 2015 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-11-25 Description An account of the resource Allan Reynolds was born in Grand Haven, Michigan in 1923. After graduating from high school he enlisted in the Navy in 1941 and received basic training at Great Lakes Naval Station, Illinois and went to Aviation Radio School in San Diego, California. He was stationed in Alaska when the war began and served at Dutch Harbor during the Aleutian Islands Campaign. He was sent to Naval Air Station Whidbey Island, Washington and volunteered for Flight School at that time. He received flight training and operational training in Louisiana, Tennessee, and finally Florida with PBY and PBM seaplanes, promoted to the rank of Petty Officer 1st Class Aviation Pilot. At the end of World War Two he flew patrols over the Pacific Coast. He was part of VH-4 Squadron at Bikini Atoll for atomic testing in summer 1946 and was part of Operation Highjump in Antarctica from December 1946 to April 1947. During the Antarctic expedition he discovered a trough that was named after him, Reynolds Trough. He made a career out of the Navy and was stationed in China, Japan, all over the U.S., and in the United Kingdom. After twenty years of service he completed his career at Great Lakes Naval Station and retired in September 1961. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Reynolds, Allan Jay Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Moore, Deb (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/x-m4v application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2b64e91eafef94e8463a4f10944444ce.pdf bf110f6281861fdeea3180724759a9ef PDF Text Text World Convulsion and the Exciting Vision of Faith Independence Day Weekend Text: Psalm 33: 10-11; Revelation 15:3 Richard A. Rhem Christ Community Church Spring Lake, Michigan July 5, 1981 Transcription of the spoken sermon I have not lived on Lake Michigan long enough to grew accustomed to sunsets and I hope I never do. No matter how urgent the task at hand, Nancy and I stop and watch the setting of the sun every evening that we are home. It is a very special time - a time to savor the beauty and wonder of the created order; a time to stand in awe of the beauty of our Father's world. But in the year we have been there, I have learned that there are evenings when one can predict a beautiful sunset - when the day has been clear and there is no sign of a cloud in the western sky and the sun sinks toward the horizon with all of its golden radiance streaming forth without a filtering cloud. Such a sight is beautiful - the end of a perfect day. However, there is another kind of evening completely unpredictable as it moves toward the moment of sunset. Perhaps a storm has just passed through or a front is gathering in the West. Huge cloud formations in constantly changing configurations play across the sky with the sun breaking through a crevice here, gilding a foreboding looking cloud there. The interplay of sun and clouds is dramatic, fascinating. Sometimes in those few moments as the sun slips silently into the sea, a cloud covers it all and there is no sunset to be seen. But at other times the clouds break, and across the water pours a path of melted gold and all the lowering clouds are touched by the varying hues such that no artist could do them justice. That is a sunset! This is a parable of world history and, in microcosm, a parable of our personal lives, as well. My theme on this Independence Day weekend is that the Eternal God, the Sovereign of the Nations, works His purposes out in the midst of world convulsion, and His movement in History can be detected by the eye of faith. If we live by the vision of faith we can see the effecting of God's purposes in world convulsion. The dictionary defines the word "convulsion" as, "the action of wrenching or condition of being wrenched... violent social, political or physical disturbance...to shake violently, to agitate or disturb," and convulsion is a fit word to describe our © Grand Valley State University   �World Convulsion and the Exciting Vision of Faith Richard A. Rhem Page 2   world. It is a world in ferment -so much more than 205 years ago when those shots were fired that were heard 'round the world. As a matter of fact, those shots were not heard 'round the world. Much rather, what was happening was a rebellion in a British colony, the implication of which could hardly be foreseen at that time. The world went on its plodding way then, but at that time one could hardly speak of world convulsion. What happened then has had far reaching consequences. We have had now 205 years of national existence - an experiment in freedom - a nation shaped and formed deliberately to create the greatest possible freedom for its people. That freedom has brought unprecedented blessing and prosperity and we cannot treasure it too highly nor guard it too carefully. That freedom is a precious gift which is constantly in peril from within and from without. After 205 years we who enjoy it are still a small minority of people, for the vast multitude of humankind live under totalitarian regimes, live regimented lives, live in grinding poverty, despair and hopelessness. What is the proper celebration of our national independence? Where have we come in these two centuries? Where do we stand today and what ought to be the posture of the Church over against our world in ferment? Are we threatened by world convulsion? Should we use our mighty power in the world to repress the cry for human freedom or ought we to be working to break the stalemate of terror that characterizes our world today? God works His purposes out in history. He, the Sovereign of History, effects His purposes in the midst of world convulsion and world convulsion is pregnant with new possibilities for the realization of God's intention that all people and nations should live a fully human existence in peace and well-being. It is not always a simple matter to detect the invisible hand of God in the midst of the uproar and dust of history's unrest, but biblical faith has always been characterized by a confidence that God makes the wrath of men to praise him and that out of the chaos created by the pride of nations and the lust for power and glory, God affects His purposes of love. And so, this morning, on this Independence Day weekend, I want us to think about world convulsion as the opportunity for the working out of the Divine Purpose and understand that world convulsion in terms of the exciting perspective of our faith in the God of History. The commitment that was made and the risk that was involved two hundred years ago, which has proved to be so meaningful in the lives of us all, that commitment which has issued in this great nation with our experience of liberty and freedom, a nation deliberately designed to enhance human freedom – that commitment must be made again. And it needs to be made again not only for ourselves, but for all peoples. For it seems to me appropriate on this, our Independence Day weekend, that we make another declaration and a new declaration, this time not a declaration of independence, but of interdependence with all the people of the earth. For if there were no higher motivation driving us © Grand Valley State University �World Convulsion and the Exciting Vision of Faith Richard A. Rhem Page 3   on than self-interest, then we could say, in all honesty, in the self-interest of this nation and its people it is incumbent upon us to recognize that in this world which has grown so small - grapefruit size - it is impossible for us to pursue narrow, nationalistic purposes. Rather, we must become citizens of the world and embrace within our purview all people and nations. And to the extent that we are true to our own principles and honest with our own past, we must lend our power and our resources to every movement of human freedom, being sensitive to every cry for human liberation and the deliverance from bondage, wherever we find it. If we would be true to our past, we must be as committed to the freedom and liberty of all peoples as we have been to our own. I do not have a program, a one, two, three-step approach that you can go out of here with. Rather it is my intention to seek to raise your consciousness of the issue that is before us - the necessity of our nation to be committed to the freedom and the liberty of nations all over. Because, you see, we have moved to the other side of the issue. We are now in the position of the crown of England 200 years ago. We now are in the preeminent position. It is now in our selfinterest, if we are shortsighted, to maintain the status quo. We live in a world that is teetering on the brink of disaster with a balance of terror between the East and the West. We live in a world that is on the threshold of blowing itself up and destroying itself, and we are the persons of power. We are the persons of resource. We now pull the strings. We, now, have the ability to impact the world, either for peace or for destruction, and if we hear the word of God, then we will not be fearful of world convulsion, but we will see it as the opportunity to nudge and move the world toward a more humane society worldwide. The shot that was heard ‘round the world 200 years ago wasn't really heard around the world. This was a backwoods part of the world - who ever heard of America, and who knew what was here and what possibilities there might be? I am sure that Europe looked down its nose at this backwoods operation. The American Revolution was really just a pimple on the surface at the time - who would know what would issue from those apparently parochial events? But such is not the case today because events of far less significance impact us. Through the instant news coverage of the mass media incidents half a world away send their reverberating shocks around the globe. We are bound together in a bundle of life today like never before, and it is high time that we in the United States of America and in the Christian Church in America recognize our worldwide responsibility and recognize that it is not enough to pursue our own national interests and our national purposes. Even intelligent self-interest demands that we take the world into our view. The American Revolution eventuated in this great nation, and we can say that the commitment to liberty and freedom at that time has been vindicated. The experiment of that time and these past two centuries has not been an accident of history, for our founding fathers recognized that liberty and human dignity must be grounded in the Eternal God and our founding documents witness to that fact. © Grand Valley State University �World Convulsion and the Exciting Vision of Faith Richard A. Rhem Page 4   But if we would be true to that heritage, then we must recognize that that which we will for ourselves we must will for all peoples. And it is incumbent upon us to recognize our world responsibility, and to declare our interdependence. That isn't popular. As a matter of fact, it goes against the grain. It is much easier to exploit the fears of people and it is much easier to beat the drums and whip up a nationalistic feeling and a fervent patriotism. Throughout the history of mankind there have been those who have set up straw men and scapegoats and we see it happening on our evening news in Iran today where the Islamic revolutionary fires need to be fed constantly by hatred of America, justified or unjustified. History has always been filled with demagogues who would manipulate people for their own purpose and we see a narrow nationalism espoused by the very vocal religious Right in our day. But it is up to you and to me who are Christians as well as Americans to recognize that history is His Story, and that He embraces all people and has good will and purposes of love for all of humankind. Therefore, it is not enough for us to make a kneejerk, nationalistic and patriotic reaction to events in the world, but rather to take a step back and recognize our responsibility to be the instruments of God for the furthering of peace and the enhancement of the human condition everywhere, on both sides of the curtain, in the East and the West, in the North and the South, in the First World and the Second World, the Third and the Fourth, in developed nations and in developing nations - to recognize in our small world, that has shrunk to such miniscule size, that whatever happens anywhere in this world will impact our life and our existence as well. Whenever one gets into this area, one is in the area not of black and white, but of many shades of gray. The international situation is so highly complex that there is really only one thing we know for sure, and that is that those who have easy, simple solutions do not understand. Beware of the simplistic solution to problems whose complexity we can hardly probe. However, we cannot be silent until we have all the facts in. And so, in the midst of our struggle to determine the posture of America in this world of ours, in the 20th century, we recognize the inadequacy of our understanding and the complexity of the problem. Yet, act we must. For example, let us take the instance of El Salvador, which I have mentioned before here. How ought we to react as a nation? Bishop Romero was murdered there a little over a year ago. He was the Archbishop of San Salvador and in his high, ecclesiastical office he had identified with the situation of the poor. In identifying with the case of the poor, there are those who would write him off by simply saying he fomented the unrest among the peasants. Well, I imagine that he did that. As a Christian who knows that God will not have people live in grinding poverty and futility, standing with the poor in a country that has been characterized by repression and oppression, what is a Christian leader to do? He wrote to President Carter back in 1980 and in that letter he said, © Grand Valley State University �World Convulsion and the Exciting Vision of Faith Richard A. Rhem Page 5   It disturbs me deeply that the U.S. government is leaning toward an arms race in sending military equipment and advisors to "train three Salvadorian battalions in logistics, communications, and intelligence." In the event that this news is accurate, your government, instead of favoring greater peace and justice in El Salvador, will undoubtedly aggravate the repression and injustice against the organized people who have been struggling because of their fundamental respect for human rights. (…from an address by Prof. Jose Jorge Siman, Former President, Commission of Justice and Peace of the Archdiocese, Catholic Church of El Salvador, given from the pulpit of Riverside Church, New York City, on Peace Sabbath, April 26, 1981.) Nonetheless, our government did not heed the Archbishop. We did send aid and military advisors. And this present administration has done the same. Choosing El Salvador in their early days in office as the point at which they would draw the line, they blew it all out of proportion, and then tried to dampen it down again. Obviously, that little nation was to be a testing ground - those poor people, those suffering peasants, the playground of the major ideologies of the day. In April, on Peace Sabbath, Bill Coffin had in his Riverside pulpit a professor from El Salvador who spoke about the situation and pleaded with American Christians to send human aid, not weapons. And following his comments, Coffin said, ... If it is true that Communism has never come to a nation that took care of its poor, its aged, its youth, its sick, and its handicapped, then why can't we say to the Junta in San Salvador, "We'll help you take care of your poor, your aged, your youth, your sick, and your handicapped, but we will not help you find a military solution to what is not a military problem?" In Nicaragua, where Catholic priests are in the ruling cabinet, where Jesuits manage the nationwide literacy campaign and are nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize by more than one hundred members of the British Parliament, why shouldn't we help the Sandinistas in the same way we helped Somoza for forty years without blinking an eyelash?... In Cuba, why shouldn't we lift the blockade of twenty years, and instead of sending Marines to Guantanamo Bay, let businessmen wade ashore in Havana? That's what Castro wants, that's the way to counteract Soviet influence, and that's the way to practice peace. The cure is caring, not killing; serving people, not power. Caring for others is the practice of peace.... Peace does not come through strength; strength comes through peace. The Psalmist in the lesson we read this morning said the Lord brings the plans of nations to nothing. He frustrates the counsels of the peoples. But the Lord's own © Grand Valley State University �World Convulsion and the Exciting Vision of Faith Richard A. Rhem Page 6   plans stand forever. And then the Psalmist went on to say what this world has never learned - and our nation does not understand, as well. A king is not saved by his great army; a warrior is not delivered by his great strength. The war horse is a vain hope for victory, and by its great might it cannot save. Psalm 33: 16, 17 (RSV) The world teeters on the brink of disaster, and what have we to say? I don't like radicals. I get sick and tired of radicals. I wish they would go away. I get tired of the media putting them before us all the time. One such radical is Daniel Berrigan, the Catholic priest who has been in and out of jail the last decade and a half. Most recently he and a few others went into the G.E. plant in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, which produces equipment for nuclear missiles. They destroyed what they could before they were arrested. They were just tried and convicted. In an interview, Daniel Berrigan had some things to say which, in spite of the fact that I don't like radicals, spoke to me. He said... The Jesuit order accepted me as a member. The Catholic Church ordained me as a priest. I took all that with great seriousness. I still do, with all my heart. And then Vietnam came along, and then the nukes came along. And I had to continue to ask myself at prayer, with my friends, with my family, with all kinds of people, with my own soul, "Do you have anything to say today?" I mean, beyond a lot of prattling religious talk. Do you have anything to say about life today, about the lives of people today? Do you have a word, a word of hope to offer, a Christian word? That's a very important question for anyone who takes being a priest, being a Christian, being a human being seriously, "Do you have anything to offer human life today?" Sojourners, June 1981, p. 23. Well, do you have anything to say today? Do I have anything to say today? The last issue of TIME magazine has a two-page essay on “The Bomb.” It says, in effect, since Hiroshima in 1945 the world has refused to look at the bomb. We have refused to look at the seriousness of the bomb. And we continue with nuclear proliferation and arming ourselves to the teeth with more warheads than would be necessary to blow up the entire globe, and still the song goes on. Israel makes a preemptive strike on the reactor in Iraq and justifies its action as necessary for its own safety and the safety of the world. In the wake of that, an Arab spokesman said, "We need the bomb!" In a world where six countries have the bomb, probably two more, and by the end of the 80's the possibility of 40 nations having the bomb, what has the Church to say? TIME magazine deals with it; I suppose we ought to, too. The war horse is a vain hope for victory… If the Psalmist were writing today he might say an antiballistic missile, or a nuclear submarine is a vain hope. © Grand Valley State University �World Convulsion and the Exciting Vision of Faith Richard A. Rhem Page 7   A king is not saved by his great army. … The Lord brings the counsel of the nations to naught; he frustrates the plans of the peoples. The counsel of the Lord stands for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations. Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord, the people whom he has chosen as his heritage! What do we do? Well, we don't make knee jerk reactions to every announcement from the White House or the State Department that would rile up our patriotic blood and make us feel like good guys over against the bad guys. We realize that we are in this bundle of life, bound up with all nations and people, and it is not a case of black and white or good and evil, of one side or the other. It is high time that we are true to the principles on which we were founded and that we seek to aid and abet every movement for human freedom and liberation anywhere in the world; that we pray for peace and begin to take steps and action, concrete action, that will further peace; that we come face to face with the horrible reality, the insanity of a world that lives under the shadow of nuclear armaments and that we recognize that our welfare rests with the welfare of the whole human family. A Declaration of Independence 200 years ago – in the providence of God, a magnificent move toward the enhancement of the human condition. 1981, high time for a Declaration of Interdependence for a world that would be made safe for children and for the generations yet unborn. Trust in arms? “The war horse is a vain hope for victory.” When will we learn it? As I was thinking about all these things this morning, I did what I always do on Sunday mornings, in the stillness, when the family is trying to sleep. I put on Bach's Mass in B Minor - a powerful piece. It begins with the Kyrie, "Lord, have mercy upon us. Christ, have mercy upon us. Lord, have mercy upon us." And then it moves into that great, strong, "Glory to God in the Highest and on earth peace among men," then it moves on through the affirmation of faith, the Nicene Creed, and eventuates in the great chorus of Alleluia and praise with the closing cry, "Grant us Thy peace." And as I heard that stirring music, the music itself communicating as much as the words, and I thought about the world in convulsion, I thought to myself - the world in convulsion seems to be so real, so close, so tangible, and the Glory to God in the Highest and Peace on Earth among men of good will seems to be so remote, and yet the music, the music convinced me that that is the Ultimate Truth, and in a world in convulsion we will not despair or give up in hopelessness, paralyzed by fear because we believe that, in the midst of world convulsion, God is working His purposes out. The exciting vision of faith keeps us going and we know that history is not an accident going to happen, but rather throughout all of its chaos is woven that meaningful thread of the purposes of God that will culminate with that great cry, "The Lord God Omnipotent reigns!" But He does not work in a vacuum, rather through His people who, like those 200 years ago, are willing to die for a heavenly cause and sacrifice life itself if need be that there might be peace on earth. Amen. © Grand Valley State University �World Convulsion and the Exciting Vision of Faith Richard A. Rhem © Grand Valley State University Page 8   � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Scripture Text Psalm 33:1-5, 10-22, Revelation 15:1-4 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19810705 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1981-07-05 Title A name given to the resource World Convulsion and the Exciting Vision of Faith Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on July 5, 1981 entitled "World Convulsion and the Exciting Vision of Faith", at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: Psalm 33:1-5, 10-22, Revelation 15:1-4. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives Divine Intention Faith Freedom Global Community Interdependence Liberation Peace https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cc5abf3092be9470597ebd4f018e50e4.pdf 7c753a27862dc35356ca06e21ddb6aba PDF Text Text God and Cosmos From the sermon series on the Cosmos Text: Hebrews 11:3 Richard A. Rhem Christ Community Church Spring Lake, Michigan November 8, 1981 Transcription of the spoken sermon By faith we understand that the world was created by the word of God… Hebrews 11: 3 If you had come past my home last evening about 10 o'clock, you might have thought that I was really desperate, for you would have seen me with my cap and coat, out on the deck with my telescope, gazing at the moon and surveying the stars. And you might have figured that, after a week's vacation, having played all week, at the eleventh hour I was desperately looking for a message in the stars to bring you. Such would not have been the case, of course, for the message was well under way by then. But having reflected all week long on the fantastic cosmos of which we are a part, having already savored the wonder of yesterday - the clear air, the blue sky, the radiant sun; walking along the beach with its lapping water, cold and clear as crystal; having seen the magnificent sun slip into the sea in the West, and then the stars glimmering in the night heavens providing a fit setting for the silvery brilliance of the moon, I thought to myself, why not get out of the study and savor it even more? And so, I did. With my telescope, I gazed at the moon and I located a star or two and thought to myself that it is true O Lord, our Lord, how majestic is thy name in all the earth!... When I look at thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars which thou hast established; what is man that thou art mindful of him, and the son of man that thou dost care for him? Psalm 8: 1, 3, 4 (RSV) The depth of eternity symbolized in the immensity of space in this vast cosmos of which we are a part, is but a finger pointing beyond itself to Him Who, in the beginning, created the heavens and the earth. I am sure we all identify with the awe, the sense of majesty which is reflected in this psalm of wonder and praise. I am sure we have all had the experience on a starry night when the atmosphere was clear as it was last night and the sky cloudless. We have looked up and we have wondered at it, and then we have © Grand Valley State University   �God and Cosmos Richard A. Rhem Page 2   found peace and comfort in the conviction that this is our Father's world. The glories of the cosmos are a reflection of the glory of God. For, as the writer to the Hebrews says in the words of our text taken from the 11th chapter, By faith we understand that the world was created by the word of God. By faith. It is certainly by faith. It is our conviction that He Who revealed Himself supremely in the face of Jesus and Whom, through Jesus, we have found to be gracious, is the Creator of the heavens and the earth. And, believing that, we have found a home. We know this is our Father's world. This is the first of a series of messages about God and Cosmos. God and Cosmos, in that order, because I do believe that God is prior to Cosmos, and Cosmos is the consequence of the deliberate intention of God to call into being that which was not. All that is, is because God said, "Let there be." I deal with this right now because I am currently viewing the television series, the 13-part Cosmos series, which is written and narrated by Carl Sagan, who must be one of the world's finest astronomers, and who is, besides being an excellent scientist, an outstanding communicator. I hope that you have seen some of that series and, if not, I hope that you will, for it is an amazing production. The photography is thrilling, the technical aspects of it are superbly handled, and the communication skills of Carl Sagan are something to behold. As I view that series, it causes me to look beyond the cosmos to the creator of it all, to experience again what the psalmist experienced, and to say within my heart, "O Lord, our Lord, how excellent is Thy name in all the earth." Carl Sagan would not agree with the psalmist or with you and me that the cosmos is the consequence of the deliberate, creative act of God. Carl Sagan is an excellent scientist and an excellent communicator and I acclaim the job that he has done. I want to go on record as saying that I think it is tremendous that the depths and the deep secrets of the physical universe are being more and more unraveled in this wonderful way through this marvelous medium, by this great communicator. For he is skilled, not only in his understanding of the universe, but in his ability to make the profound simple. And when he is an astronomer, a scientist, and when he is setting forth all of that data which is available through the explosion of knowledge and through the use of instrumentation which is so sophisticated that it boggles the mind, then I listen intently and I learn. This past week I spent the week trying to master the book which is the narration of the video series. It is entitled, Cosmos. It's a very big and beautiful book, and a very expensive book. I recommend it. When Carl Sagan is a scientist and an astronomer, I learn a great deal. When he ceases to be an astronomer and a scientist and becomes a philosopher and a theologian, then he has moved into my territory and I carry on a dialogue with him. As long as he is talking about protons and neutrons and quasars and pulsars and galaxies and all of that, then I am an innocent bystander listening in and learning and eagerly so. When he becomes a philosopher and a theologian, then I say, "Carl, let's talk about that." © Grand Valley State University �God and Cosmos Richard A. Rhem Page 3   Now, a scientist has every right to be a theologian and a philosopher, and I suppose most all of them really are, because all of us finally are. The difficulty comes when the two are so closely intertwined that one hardly knows whether this is the result of the data gathered through some radioscope, testing the outer limits of space, or whether it is the configuration conjured in the mind and heart of the scientist. When he becomes a philosopher and theologian, then I take exception to him, because then he would not agree with our Judeo-Christian tradition, our conviction that all that is, is as a consequence of the Word of God. He would commit Genesis and the Letter to the Hebrews and the great Psalms to that great body of myth and fable which is a part of the common human experience. Every people who have ever lived have had some kind of an explanation, some kind of a myth which explains why there is anything. And Carl Sagan would lump our Biblical tradition with all of those religious and semireligious explanations for the fact that there is something rather than nothing. It is at that point that I would differ with him and call him to account. He is a materialist. Now, a materialist is one who believes that, finally, everything can be reduced to matter or energy. Now, you all understand Einstein's Theory of Relativity, which says that those two are interchangeable, that mass and energy are interchangeable, that finally, ultimately, the building blocks of reality are very simply molecules that can be reduced to energy. So a materialist believes that, finally, you can reduce the whole of reality to energy, electricity if you will, to chemical reactions, so that the emotions that we feel are the result of chemical reactions and nerve connections, and so forth. A materialist believes that the whole of reality and the totality of human experience can be reduced to that which is material, physical. Now, in saying that, he has to deal with the fact that you and I are intelligent and we are conscious. We are self-conscious people. We can reflect back upon ourselves, we know that we exist, we think about ourselves, for better or worse. And we have an intelligence. We can communicate. He would say that there may be intelligent beings in other universes. If there are, we don't know about it. They haven't signaled us yet, nor have they returned our signal. But, be that as it may, as far as we are concerned, and after all we can only deal here with planet Earth, the highest form of the cosmic evolutionary process has resulted in human intelligence and human consciousness . We are the only beings that know that we are. We are the only beings with the intelligence and the self-consciousness to reflect on the cosmic process of which we are a part. And, consequently, if everything can be reduced down to that point of energy or matter, then human intelligence and human consciousness and human emotion, likewise, can be reduced down and be explained in terms of electricity, chemical reaction, etc. And that would mean, of course, that we are at the top of the ladder. This is as far as the process has gotten. And that would mean, of course, that there is no higher rung as yet realized. Who knows what may be up there? One might say that humans have become godlike. Human existence with its intelligence and © Grand Valley State University �God and Cosmos Richard A. Rhem Page 4   consciousness is the highest rung of the ladder at this point and, consequently, with nothing beyond, there can be no one beyond. A materialist explains the totality of the cosmos in terms of the building blocks of reality that are reducible in the laboratory. Human intelligence and consciousness may be praised and affirmed and acclaimed. It is the highest development of the cosmic process. There is no one beyond. Such is the view of the materialist. Such a one is a naturalist. He would be a humanist, too, I suppose. But you and I believe more than that. As long as Carl Sagan is an astronomer and a scientist, we learn; we learn with fascination and with eagerness. We marvel at the ingenuity of the human mind, at the intellectual powers of an Einstein, the exploratory endeavors of Galileo and Copernicus, Kepler and the whole host of those who have probed the depths of reality and given us today such an amazing insight into the cosmic order. It is exciting and fascinating and we ought to affirm that in the Church. When Carl Sagan has said everything he has to say, he has not yet dealt with the religious question. Being a materialist, he has planted his feet squarely within this cosmos, whereas you and I see the totality of the cosmos as the consequence of the creative act of One Who transcends the cosmos, Who is not encased within the system of which we are a part, with our galaxies and our planets and our stars. We look to One Who is beyond, One Who stands apart from and Who spoke and called into being that which did not previously exist. By faith, we believe the worlds were fashioned by the Word of God. That God was, and nothing else was, and God spoke, and it came to be. That is the affirmation of the Letter to the Hebrews, the reflection of that first chapter where he sees the cosmos to the extent that he was able to understand it and he says, …they will perish, but thou remainest; they will all grow old like a garment, like a mantle thou wilt roll them up, and they will be changed. But thou art the same, and thy years will never end. Hebrews 1: 11-12 Or the psalmist who said, "O Lord, our Lord, how excellent is Thy name in all the earth." When I consider the heavens, the moon, the stars which you have made, my worship is not offered, as it has been through so many ages of humankind, to the stars and the moon or the sun or the cosmic order itself, but to the God Who is apart from it and brought it into being. That is the Biblical tradition. That is the Judeo-Christian faith. It is our faith. And so we study the cosmos. As we view such a marvelous presentation as the television Cosmos series, we are fascinated and we marvel at the wonders, the complexity and the simplicity of the created order. But we always look beyond, and then we know this amazing place is our Father's world. © Grand Valley State University �God and Cosmos Richard A. Rhem Page 5   We have learned a lot through the research of astrophysics. They tell us that 15 to 20 billion years ago this universe was formed. Science, itself, has formulated what is today the most accepted model of origin - the ''Big Bang." There was a high concentration of energy and mass, almost a pinpoint. And from that intense concentration of energy evolved a nuclear explosion that scattered the elements in every direction, from which explosion we can still, through very delicate radioscopes, hear the pulsing of radiation. From that Big Bang 15 to 20 billion years ago, this whole cosmic order of which we are a part emanated. They tell us that it is still expanding like a balloon. If you blow up a balloon that has polka dots on it, the polka dots keep getting farther apart, but they remain relatively in the same position on that sphere. And so, this universe is going outward. They tell us if there is enough mass within this expanding universe, the force of gravity will eventually stop the expansion, that it will, in turn, contract so that after the Big Bang will come the Big Crunch. And then, they tell us, possibly with that Big Crunch and that high concentration again, there will be another nuclear explosion that will start the whole process over again. Does it make any difference to Genesis? Does it make any difference to Hebrews or to Psalm 8? Not a smidgin, really. For, who knows what God is up to? Who knows what fantastic things He has in store for this, our planet Earth, which is just a little speck of dust occupying an instant of time in this dramatic, cosmic, evolutionary process. But on this little speck of dust, in this instant of time, we exist, conscious and intelligent, able to reflect on the process and to adore the God Who is behind it all. What we have learned about space is so amazing. For example, they talk about black holes. I wish I understood black holes. In the next life I'm going to conduct great music. The third life I want to be an astrophysicist. I have never had a physics course in my life, and I am really out of my element. But, anyway, try to understand the black holes. Have you ever pulled the plug in a basin of water? You pull the plug in the sink and the water goes down the drain. If you had good drainage, the water was pulled down forming a whirlpool over the drain. Well, they say that where there is a high concentration of energy from the collapse of a great big star, maybe four or five times bigger than our sun, there is such a concentration of gravity that it rushes right out of the universe. Like if you had your hand inside the balloon and pushed it out. That gravity is so great, so intense, that it doesn't even let the light out, so that you look in the sky and there is a black hole. (You can't see the black hole where the star was, but you know that the star was there because there is such a strong emanation of x-rays from that point that they can tell by the radioscopes that it is there.) It is a tremendous source of power. Well, even Carl Sagan says that those black holes might be the shoots that would send us from one universe to another. I was thinking about the book Life After Life, and all the stories of those who have edged right up to death and then come back. They talk about that tunnel of light. Who knows but maybe it's a black hole? It's a black hole from the outside, but © Grand Valley State University �God and Cosmos Richard A. Rhem Page 6   inside, the light is there, you see. Does it make any difference to Genesis, or Psalm 8, or the Letter to the Hebrews? Not a bit. The more we learn, the more we probe, the more we understand, the more wonder, the more sense of awe, because of the majesty, the mind-boggling nature of the cosmic order. Our earth, 4.6 billion years old, part of a cosmic evolutionary process 15 to 20 billion years old. They say if you took a few baseballs and scattered them on the North American continent they would be crowded compared to the stars in space. And our galaxy, the Milky Way, has four billion stars, and our galaxy is in what they call the Local Cluster, a relatively small cluster. There are numberless galaxies. Sagan writes, We live on a mote of dust circling a humdrum star in the remotest corner of an obscure galaxy. And if we are a speck in the immensity of space, we also occupy an instant in the expanse of ages. Cosmos, p. 20f. Can you begin to take it in? I cannot. But whoever said God wasn't big? And whoever said God lacked power? By faith, we understand that the worlds were fashioned by the Word of God, and the more we learn, the more we stand in awe of One Who stands apart from and creates the heavens and the earth and this place for you and for me. When the Bible affirms that God created, it doesn't mean to tell us all of the scientific details about where everything came from, or the process by which it arose. The Church too long has used the Bible that way, as a scientific text. And because of that kind of use of the Bible there has been the unnecessary and tragic conflict between science and religion. The Bible simply is trying to say that God is at the beginning and God is at the end, and whatever exists, this cosmic evolutionary process contains nothing that can be threatening to you and to me, because God is at the beginning and God is at the end. And when the Bible says Creation is good, it simply is saying that it is a good place for us to develop and to grow in the grace and the knowledge of Jesus Christ. And when it says that God called into being that which exists from nothing, it is simply affirming that there is nothing in the cosmic order that can be threatening, because God is sovereign and Lord over all. That is really all we are saying, but that is to say tremendous things about our human existence, and the cosmic order of which we are a part. I am excited about this, because I believe too long in the Church there has been an atmosphere of fear and an attitude of defensiveness. I grew up being threatened by science. I grew up fearing every new discovery. I grew up wishing there would be no more explosion of knowledge, fearing that somehow or other, the faith and the things that were most dear to me would be exploded by some new view under a microscope or some distant vista from a telescope. The Church's history is tragic: Catholic and Protestant. Johann Kepler was excommunicated by the Lutheran Church in the 17th Century, and Galileo was put under house arrest the last years of his life by the Roman Church for simply © Grand Valley State University �God and Cosmos Richard A. Rhem Page 7   affirming what he knew was true, that the earth went around the sun rather than vice versa. The Church's record is tragic, to be repented of, and the Church too often continues to react negatively to the increase of knowledge. It stifles creative thought and experimentation and offends its best spirits and drives out its finest minds. I am excited about this, because I believe that we can allow the fresh air, knowledge and research and investigation to flow through the Church, and then, if we have faith enough, we can stand with the psalmist and say, "Lord, our Lord, how excellent is Thy name in all the earth. When I consider the heavens, the moon and the stars which You have made, then from my heart arises wonder, love and praise." By faith we believe that the worlds were fashioned by the word of God, and whatever is out there of which we are a part, whatever its future, and whatever its past, it is encompassed in the eternal love of God, Who has manifested Himself as Grace and touched us in the flesh of Jesus. Blessed be His holy name. Amen. Father, we revel in the wonder of the Created Order, the mind-boggling experience of the natural world, and we rejoice in the confidence that we have that we have a home here, that this is our Father's world, and that you uphold all things by the power of your word. Receive our adoring worship, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen. © Grand Valley State University � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Scripture Text Hebrews 1:1-4, 10-12 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19811108 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1981-11-08 Title A name given to the resource God and Cosmos Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on November 8, 1981 entitled "God and Cosmos", at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: Hebrews 1:1-4, 10-12. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives Awe Consciousness Cosmos Creation Creator Eternal Love of God Faith https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d97c24fd462fe79bf66c65813cf8428d.pdf 9e467acb12c4513d6e3c141e6a3a20d3 PDF Text Text God, Humanity and Cosmos From the sermon series on the Cosmos Text: Psalm 8: 4-5 Richard A. Rhem Christ Community Church Spring Lake, Michigan November 15, 1981 Transcription of the spoken sermon What is man that thou art mindful of him, …dost care for him? Yet thou hast made him a little less than God. Psalm 8: 4-5 Through a happy coincidence, this was an exciting week in the old U.S. of A. as we once again accomplished a great triumph of science and technology, sending into space again our Spaceship Columbia, watching it blast off with all of the drama of those moments, and then, in order that we might report its safe return this morning, the mission was shortened, and they came back yesterday. Exciting, really, isn't it? And doesn't it boggle the mind to think about the human potential, to think about what human intelligence is able to effect? Isn't it amazing, really, when you contemplate the nature of such events? Truly it is thrilling. Yet we become so easily accustomed to the dramatic and the sensational. If we were to tell our forefathers that these things were happening, they wouldn't believe it. They would say it was impossible. At best they might say, "Well, it's a miracle." Well, it is a miracle, in a sense. But in another sense, it is simply that the human mind has been able to probe the secrets of reality in order to accomplish a mission like that and continue the exploration of the cosmos. I kidded about them bringing the spacecraft home early so that we would know this morning that they were successful, but, as a matter of fact, that decision was made, though not for that reason. As I was thinking about Psalm 2 and the psalmist's reflection upon the cosmos and then upon himself, who he was in relationship to God, I thought that decision was a rather nice illustration of the second Psalm, for a choice was made in favor of human life over the probing of the cosmos. If the psalmist was impressed with the cosmos, then how much more you and me? If he was impressed with what he could see, which was but an infinitesimal fragment of what there is, if he was impressed with his smallness over against the vastness of space and the eons of time, which are becoming more and more clear to us, then how much more must we be impressed with our smallness and our insignificance? And yet, when one of the three fuel cells of that spacecraft failed, a decision had to be made as to whether to let the mission run its course, or to bring it home early. Two fuel cells were enough to allow the © Grand Valley State University   �God, Humanity and Cosmos Richard A. Rhem Page 2   mission to take its full run. But then, down to two, if one should fail, the mission and human life would be in jeopardy. And so, at headquarters, discussion was held and the decision was made. They came home early, even though involved were scores and scores of people, and millions and millions of dollars and all of that which is at stake. They brought that mission home early because in this nation, standing in the biblical tradition, we know the value and the sanctity of human life. And when it comes to taking a risk and succeeding with a few more scientific experiments, but placing at the same time, human life in jeopardy, there is really no question, because we know in the face of space's immensity and time's ever-rolling stream, that there is still one thing that counts supremely, and that is a human being. Now that is really the same kind of conclusion that the psalmist came to. On the one hand, he said, Lord, when I consider the heavens, the moon and the stars which you have ordained, what is man that you are mindful of him? And the son of man, that you care for him? He felt his smallness and his insignificance. He was overwhelmed by the immensity of the heavens overhead, and he recognized that his days were but a brief span of time. His littleness in the vastness of it all gave him such a sense of insignificance and smallness. As I said, if he felt small, how about us? We have to say that in our own day there have been a lot of people who have been unable to move with the modern conception of the universe and maintain a faith in God the Creator. The psalmist had a correct intuition. I mean, who are we, really, when you think of it? Fifteen to twenty billion years in the process, and now we are here, threescore years and ten, perhaps. Why, our lifespan is a blink of the eye. And when you realize, as Carl Sagan says in his book, Cosmos, that the earth is a speck of dust, circling a humdrum star, our sun - just an average old humdrum star - you begin to realize the vastness of the cosmos. We are on a speck of dust circling a humdrum star in a corner of an insignificant galaxy; and if we are on but a speck of dust in the vastness of space, so are our days but an instant in the eons of time. When you really stop to think about it, I mean when you really stop to contemplate it, can you still believe that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth? You see, there have been many of our contemporaries who have not been able to make that move and that adjustment. We have opened up the mysteries of the cosmos, and it is a most exciting day in which to be alive. But what has to happen is not only that the cosmos expands before our eyes, but our conception of God must grow commensurately. As J.B. Phillips wrote so many years ago, Your God Is Too Small. We have to admit, too, that in the Church we have not been very good at helping people to make this adjustment. © Grand Valley State University �God, Humanity and Cosmos Richard A. Rhem Page 3   In the most recent issue of Science '81, an excellent magazine which was placed in my hands, there is a centerfold on Creationism – Creationism as opposed to Evolutionism, and all of the controversy that is being stirred up by the fundamentalist wing of the Christian Church today. It recounts how several states have gone to court to get equal time for the doctrine of Creation in their schools. It is a very interesting development. This is a science magazine. And in this report it was stated what we have been saying here over and over again, that all of the scientific investigation of the cosmos, whether in biology or physics or geology or in whatever field - all of these investigations really do not impinge upon whether or not God created the heavens and the earth, and whether or not I can still believe that this is my Father's world. That really isn't at issue. But the problem with the fundamentalist wing of the Church that is stirring up all this controversy is that it is creating, once again, that overagainstness with science, and that mindset in much of the Christian Church that there is something destructive to faith in all of this explosion of knowledge in the natural sciences. That is tragic. We do ourselves a great disservice. If you feel good when you see some television evangelist pounding the pulpit and talking in terms of creation over against a godless, atheistic evolutionism, don't clap, because he is not on your side, if you are on the side of God and Truth. That is a false distinction, that is a false antithesis, and it is deadly. It is deadly because it offends the best minds and the best spirits, and it creates the illusion that to be a Christian you have to take off your head, shut down your mind and refuse to survey the vast amount of data that is there for anyone with any common sense. We can't play that game any longer. We have to admit that what the psalmist saw, the immensity of the universe and the eons of time and all of this which has become even more clear to us will necessitate an adjustment of our understanding of God. We simply cannot have this neat, secure little world, little planet Earth and our few thousands of years and our literal, biblical account of things, because, you see, the biblical writers were not writing physics, were not writing biology, were not talking about geology. The writers of the Bible thought that this was a threestory universe, with heaven above and the waters under the earth. God didn't whisper in their ears and give them some revelation of the mysteries of physics. This is not a science textbook, and you cannot find out about the process of the created order, you cannot find out about the stages which have brought us to this present point by going to the scriptures. The only thing the scriptures will tell you, and of course the only thing that really matters, is that in the beginning was God, and that He will be in the end, and that He is with us in the meantime. When the psalmist looked up and thought, "Oh my goodness, I'm not much," then how much more we, and we simply have to recognize that we need to do some readjusting because, as a matter of fact, this old, cosmological, evolutionary process has been going on for a long, long time. There is no doubt about that. And it has been following a course of natural development which now is more and © Grand Valley State University �God, Humanity and Cosmos Richard A. Rhem Page 4   more understood, with many mysteries still to be unraveled, but which will be unraveled. We live in a day which is right at the crest of a breakthrough that will continue to explode and explode and explode all around us. The more we learn, the more access we have to deeper mysteries, and when you saw Columbia come in and land right on the second and right on the line, that is simply a sign and a finger pointing beyond itself to the most fantastic dreams that are even now welling up in human hearts and minds. Never say never! Because before you die, it will have happened. But the psalmist had another insight, and that is the critical insight, for he not only experienced his smallness and his insignificance, but he went on to say, "Thou hast created him a little less than God. Thou hast crowned him with glory and honor. Thou hast given him dominion over the whole created order." That is the biblical insight. That is the significant fact. That is the uniqueness of being human. That is the religious issue, for it doesn't really matter how long it's been going on, and it doesn't really matter how vast the immensity of space. The fact is that we are here now at this point in the process, and we are human. The psalmist recognized that there is something about being human which is nearly divine. And if I were to put it in a sentence, I would say to you this morning that the message is simply this - You are really something. That's the biblical message. We may be impressed with distance, and we may be impressed with age, but what we really ought to stand in awe before is the mystery of being human, the wonder of what it is to be man and woman, created in the image of God, for what the psalmist was saying here when he said, "Thou hast made him a little less than God," was what the writer of the Genesis account was saying when he said, "God created man and woman in His own image." God created a creature over against himself and made him almost divine. He created a creature with selfconsciousness and with a measure of freedom and self-determination, and with responsibility and the opportunity to fall in worship and adoring praise before the Creator of it all. You are really something! To be human is the greatest mystery reflecting the deepest majesty of the whole cosmological process. When I look at thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars which thou hast established: what is man that thou art mindful of him, and the son of man that thou dost care for him? Yet thou hast made him little less than God, and dost crown him with glory and honor. Thou hast given him dominion over the works of thy hands… Psalm 8: 3-6 We are created to be the co-laborers with God, partners with God in this creative process. We are endowed with gifts, with human potential, and we have the powers and the ability to reflect the divine image. We can think His thoughts after Him, and we can enter into His creative activity, and with the things that have already been accomplished through the exercise of human intelligence, who © Grand Valley State University �God, Humanity and Cosmos Richard A. Rhem Page 5   would dare say what the frontier finally would be? You are really something, and good religion will affirm human personality. Now, we need to hear that in the Church, too, don't we, because for too long we have spoken disparagingly of human personality. Nothing I say this morning would in any way detract from the fact which we have faced honestly that there is something desperately wrong with us all and we fall short of the glory of God. There is a meanness about us and a contrariness; someone, somewhere has thrown a wrench in the works, and man's inhumanity to man is given eloquent testimony from beginning to end. But in the Church, so often that is where we have left it. We talk about our misery and fail to talk about our grandeur. We talk about our fallenness and fail to take in the destiny to which we have been called. God has dealt with our sin, and by His grace, calls us to realize our destiny and to develop the full potential with which he has endowed us, and to reflect the divine image. You are really somebody. You reflect God. You were created in His image, a little less than Him, and He has created us in order to be in relationship with Him, to live in communion, and to live not only in communion with Him, but in communion one with another, and in interpersonal relationships where there is love and care and forgiveness and grace. There is a little bit of heaven. God and His creature, living in fellowship and communion, one with another and with Him, define the ultimate miracle and the meaning of the whole process. Now, that is terribly important to affirm and it ought to make you feel really good about yourself, because you really are somebody. You have potential untapped, you have gifts yet undreamed of, you have possibilities without limit. You are almost divine, and God calls us to that upward way more and more to respond to that destiny for which he has shaped us, to be prepared for the future that He has for us. Now, when you watch Carl Sagan on Cosmos, be enrapt with him in the excitement of exploring the mysteries of the physical world. And I affirm that, and I love it, and when you study it, as I have more and more, you are so impressed with the simplicity on the other side of complexity. The complexity of the cosmos and humankind seems so apparent. But once the smoke has cleared there appears a simplicity in the created order. All of us and all matter is made up of the same building blocks, the same atoms, the same fundamental elements, whether here on planet Earth or the moon or Jupiter or the sun or your beating, human heart. Everything, being composed of very simple and fundamental elements, seems to reflect a divine intelligence which can hardly be conceived of. But when you watch Carl Sagan and he begins to suggest that that process that has moved through all of the eons of time and all of that evolutionary process to the present moment is purposeless, the product of chance, when he begins to suggest that you are the latest and highest expression, and that there is no one beyond, then don't you believe him, for then he is no longer a scientist; then he is in the sphere of religion. He suggests that maybe the universes are not the © Grand Valley State University �God, Humanity and Cosmos Richard A. Rhem Page 6   dreams of God, but rather, that God may be the dream of man. He is saying that we have come to this point and then we have simply projected out, beyond ourselves the God that we wish were there. When he begins to talk that way, he has lost me. Then he has said that I am simply the consequence of all of that process of development having really no freedom and no unique spiritual character, related to all that went before but missing completely that relationship to Him Who is beyond and above. Then I know that he has missed the ultimate truth. Nothing that he says about our relationship to the cosmos is in any way in conflict to that relationship we have with a God Who spoke and called it into being. But to deny that God and to end up here is to leave me alone without a home and without meaning. Human existence, then, is the chance result of spontaneous reactions along billions of years. His explanation for the first development of life is that in a primeval soup one cell got the ability to reproduce itself and then through billions of years, organizing by perhaps a light ray striking a cell and causing a change, a mutation, and finally organizing and gathering and getting more and more complex, until finally one glob of cells woke up and said, "Well, here I am." Now, that takes faith to believe. When we contemplate what it is to be human, then we need not deny that whole process. But to me, it makes far more sense to believe that in the beginning there was an Intelligence that said, "Let there be..." with a purpose, and a purpose of love that moved the process to a point at which one day there was someone who looked into the face of God and experienced relationship, communion. For finally, what is ultimate and what is important? At NASA this week they made a decision, and a correct decision, for there is really nothing in the whole cosmos, there is no experiment, there is no technological breakthrough so important and so pressing that it would be worth placing in jeopardy one human life, one human life that knows itself as free and in relationship, able to love and to care. A couple of weeks ago when Nancy and I were at Mayo's, we did a lot of sitting and waiting for our names to be called. You watch a lot of people and a lot of people in various states of difficulty and need. It's always obvious when, for example, a son or a daughter has brought an aged parent, maybe in a wheelchair or helping them along to the desk. You think a lot about people and you watch them. Nancy was telling me about two old gentlemen, the one helping the other, hobbling along, finally getting to the desk because his name had been called, and the other who was helping said to the nurse, "Is it all right if I go in with him? You know, he's my brother." Well, you know, to me that's more impressive than a thousand billion galaxies. Isn't it, really? What finally counts? We stand not in any conflict with any scientific probe of the depths of reality. Half of the physicists are mystics, trying © Grand Valley State University �God, Humanity and Cosmos Richard A. Rhem Page 7   to determine the nature of what is. That is an exciting venture; it is a human venture. But we do stand in the midst of the darkness of space and the eons of time to say that, whatever else may be, this is ultimately important — we are, and we know one another, and we have learned to love and to care because into our lives, in our own flesh, has appeared Jesus. Jesus, in whose face we have seen the light of the knowledge of the glory of God, and found Him to be gracious. Ah, you are really something! You are really somebody. There are no limits to the possibilities that await you and, as the writer to the Hebrews recognized, what we see now is only a part. We see Jesus, not yet all things put into subjection to him, but the whole tenor of that New Testament, in the wake of Jesus, tells us that there is a future, the contours of which we have not yet begun to dream about. For eye has not seen, and ear has not heard, nor has it entered into the heart of man to conceive of the things that God has prepared for them that love Him. See what love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. I John 3: 1f (RSV) And what we shall be has not yet appeared, but we know that when He appears, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And throughout all Eternity we will be brothers and sisters with our Lord, lost in wonder, love and praise of the God Who spoke and called all things into being. Blessed be His holy name. Amen. © Grand Valley State University � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Scripture Text Psalm 8, Hebrews 2:5-9 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19811115 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1981-11-15 Title A name given to the resource God, Humanity and Cosmos Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on November 15, 1981 entitled "God, Humanity and Cosmos", at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: Psalm 8, Hebrews 2:5-9. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives Community Cosmic Evolution Creation Creator Creature Grace Image of God Love Nature of God Nature of the Human https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2604f904c012abfbf1317cc7b030b11e.pdf 6092de23c5cebd0ab8fb6fa0979b71c3 PDF Text Text God, Cosmos, Grace and Thanksgiving From the sermon series on the Cosmos Text: I Chronicles 29: 11-13; Ephesians 1: 4-6, 9 Richard A. Rhem Christ Community Church Spring Lake, Michigan Thanksgiving Day, November 26, 1981 Transcription of the spoken sermon And now we thank thee, our God, and praise thy glorious name. I Chronicles 29: 11-13 In Christ he chose us before the world was founded…. Determined beforehand in Christ – to be put into effect when the time was ripe; namely, that the universe, all in heaven and on earth, might be brought into a unity in Christ. Ephesians 1: 4-6, 9 Worship is the ascription of worth to God; it arises from a sense of awe before the majesty and marvel of who He is. It arises, that is, it is a spontaneous, irrepressible expression of praise and adoration. Gratitude is likewise a spontaneous feeling that wells up in the human heart in the wake of the recognition of some grace or mercy or kindness done, some blessing received. We teach our children to say "Thank you" but we cannot teach nor can we coerce gratitude. How often do we not say of some person helped who fails to express gratitude, "What an ingrate!" But if it is not felt, then it cannot be forced. In this marvelous and moving outpouring of thanksgiving and praise of David in I Chronicles, we sense the essence of worship and gratitude - a heart totally transfixed in the presence of the grace of God. Let me tell you briefly about the situation that called forth this eloquent expression of praise and thanksgiving. Having consolidated his throne and expanded and secured Israel's borders, David wanted to build a great temple for the worship of God in Jerusalem. However, according to the prophet's word, that task would be denied David; it was rather to be his son, Solomon, who would build the temple. David yielded to that prophetic word, but he nonetheless made preparations for the building and used his power and persuasion with the people to gather gifts and resources with which to build. © Grand Valley State University   �God, Cosmos, Grace and Thanksgiving Richard A. Rhem Page 2   The occasion of our text is the great service of thanksgiving at the ingathering of the gifts of the respective tribes. A great outpouring of generosity to make the temple project possible was celebrated in a service of thanksgiving which was led by David, the King. The majestic doxological prayer, which is our text, is David's expression of the gratitude and praise he felt to God Who had moved the hearts of the people to support so generously the temple offering. David can hardly find words adequate to ascribe to God the worthiness of His grace. …Thine, O Lord, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty; for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O Lord, and thou art exalted as head above all. Both riches and honor come from thee, and thou rulest over all. In thy hand are power and might; and in thy hand it is to make great and to give strength to all. And now we thank thee, our God, and praise thy glorious name. I Chronicles 29: 11-13 The deep emotion surges through that ascription of praise. We still "feel" it. It poured out. And true worship, praise and thanksgiving are the irrepressible expressions of a heart touched by mercy, overwhelmed by grace, subdued by love. True worship has the note of doxology and doxology cannot be coerced or conjured up. It arises. Doxology was a hallmark of Paul's worship. The burning passion of that great apostle was the consequence of a grand vision of the Truth. Paul's vision of God was no narrow understanding of some local, tribal deity, but rather of the Eternal God Who from eternity had a plan of cosmic scope to bind together all things into a glorious harmony and the very heart of that eternal purpose was grace. Like David, Paul can hardly find words adequately to express the grandeur and scope of the grace of God at work in the world, culminating in the grace that appeared in Jesus who is the very center of this vast cosmic drama. Listen to his outpouring of this cosmic vision: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. …For he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. Ephesians 1: 3-6, 9 In this series of messages, I have been attempting to sketch the amazing dimensions of the universe of which we are a part. To catch even a fleeting © Grand Valley State University �God, Cosmos, Grace and Thanksgiving Richard A. Rhem Page 3   glimpse, to gain even a faint impression of the wonders of the natural world is to stand in awe. And this I have tried to say to you – that the power and might and majesty of the Creation can be seen in another realm, the realm of His gracious reaching of us, creatures of His making, created to reflect His image, to live in communion with Him and one another. The God of Cosmos is the God of Grace. Our Creator is Our Saviour. As we reflect on the first chapter of Ephesians, we can sense the excitement of this insight into God's cosmic plan of salvation. Paul had received the revelation of God's gracious plan as we saw in the previous message. God had acted in Jesus to bring to the world the knowledge of Himself and in Jesus, to accomplish the salvation of the whole world. If we read the various letters of Paul, we know that salvation for him involved nature and people - the whole cosmos. It was this amazing revelation that Paul could hardly fathom, before which he bowed in adoring praise. Worship, praise and thanksgiving arose from the depths of his being. God had a plan. Before the foundation of the world He loved us and included us in His gracious purpose of love. When the time was ripe, He unveiled His hidden purpose that the universe, all in heaven and on earth, might be brought into a unity in Christ. Mindboggling, is it not! It was to Paul. He broke out in doxology. David and Paul both understood the grandeur and the wonder of God's gracious purpose. They knew God's grace was as expansive as the Cosmos and as personal as the individual person touched by grace. Grace is the secret of the universe - the world of nature. Grace is the secret of our human existence. Grace is the ultimate ground and cause of praise and thanksgiving. The Hamburg Times, dated October 9, 1981, has an extended article telling of a conference sponsored by the Thyssen Foundation. The purpose of this conference of scientists was to explore the "Anthropic Principle" - looking at the universe from the perspective of humankind. The amazing result was the realization that this whole cosmological process of billions of years is delicately balanced to provide at this point in the cosmic drama the presence of persons able to know who they are, know the history of the cosmos and assume responsibility for its future. Taking all the data available to us today through the research of the natural sciences, this convention of scientists discovered the universe to be delicately balanced, finely tuned in order to provide an environment in which life such as ours is possible. © Grand Valley State University �God, Cosmos, Grace and Thanksgiving Richard A. Rhem Page 4   Were the speed of expansion greater than it is, our universe would not have formed as it has. Were the force of gravity less or greater, our universe would not have formed as it has. The author of the article, “The World Is As It Is,” Reinhard Breuer, at the Max Planck Institute for Plasma Physics at Garching, Bavaria, concludes by declaring, The interplay of exactly four forces seems, thus shows the anthropic principle, to have been already a quite frugal method for making possible an evolution through diversity and selection. The structure of the cosmos through natural laws as well as also a special process of evolution evidently cooperated effectively in an almost unique manner within the network of relative relations of forces in order to bring forth an intelligent civilization - us. The American physicist Freeman Dyson once said: "If we look out into the universe and recognize how many chance occurrences worked together for our benefit, then it almost seems as if the universe had known in a certain sense that we were coming." The anthropic principle thus permits a new and uniform valuation of the seemingly (at least in part) accidental development of the world and of the role of man in it. This indeed does not yet make possible an "explanation" in the sense of a scientific theory. Until today it has been shown that terrestrial life is most closely anchored in this structure, that our roots reach back all the way into the properties of the big bang. This transparence doubtlessly orients itself by the example of terrestrial life; it remains open whether an alternate cosmos could be populated by an entirely different form of intelligence. The new mode of thought underpins at any rate the thesis that the world is as it is because with any other constellation of natural laws we would not be here at all. To talk of an "accident" or of "chance" as the cause of our existence is therefore meaningless. Carl Sagan is fully aware of all the data of which these scientists were aware. He looks at it and is enthralled by it, but ascribes it all to chance, accident, coincidence. You and I look at it and fall to our knees as we begin to sense the Grace-Structure of the Cosmos. And with Paul we do more. We see in the vast Grace-Structured Cosmos a point in time - when the time was ripe -when one appeared whose name was Jesus, in whose face we see reflected the image of God Who is first and last the God of Grace. Could it be that this vast cosmic drama involving such immensity of space, billions and billions of years, could have been effected and set in motion for the purpose of love being shared, community being formed, community of God and humankind? That would seem to be the case. © Grand Valley State University �God, Cosmos, Grace and Thanksgiving Richard A. Rhem Page 5   What does that do for us? It certainly is no cause for boasting and pride. Are we not rather overwhelmed? Do we not identify with David, who in the ecstasy of experiencing the grace of God, cried out.... But what am I, and what is my people, that we should be able to give willingly like this? For everything comes from thee, and it is only of thy gifts that we give to thee. I Chronicles 29: 14 What am I? I am known and loved of God! O Lord, our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! Grace is the ultimate truth, the final reality. Whether we search the distant stars or probe the mysteries of the minute atom, it is grace that meets us. Thanksgiving and praise arise from a heart transfixed by the grace of God. It is good in the Season of Thanksgiving to count our blessings, to take stock of our situation. Yet the immediate circumstances of our lives may not cause praise and thanksgiving to arise spontaneously. Perhaps our situation presently is one of adversity. Can we still give thanks? Certainly we can if we take the broad view, if we catch the vision of the cosmic grandeur of the Divine Purpose. In the long view, our immediate circumstances lose their urgency. In the light of the "big picture", we cannot but stand in awe before Grace. Grace is the ground of thanksgiving. Grace, as broad as the Cosmos, as personal as our names, engraven on the palms of His hands, is the first and last word. …Blessed art thou, O Lord, the God of Israel our father, for ever and ever. Thine, O Lord, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty; for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O Lord, and thou art exalted as head above all. Both riches and honor come from thee, and thou rulest over all. In thy hand are power and might; and in thy hand it is to make great and to give strength to all. And now we thank thee, our God, and praise thy glorious name. I Chronicles 29:10-13 Amen. © Grand Valley State University � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event Thanksgiving Day Scripture Text I Chronicles 29:9-18, Ephesians 1:1-10 Location The location of the interview Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19811126 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1981-11-26 Title A name given to the resource God, Cosmos, Grace and Thanksgiving Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on November 26, 1981 entitled "God, Cosmos, Grace and Thanksgiving", on the occasion of Thanksgiving Day, at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: I Chronicles 29:9-18, Ephesians 1:1-10. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives David Divine Intention Grace of God Gratitude Thanksgiving Worship