754 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ddd0fb6c908296225009bc21f02f6833.jpg 4891d9b6b5190fd67f5d3dfb10df1dcd https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c936873b5728cba9f157ce3cc49cdd31.jpg 4540d865697f5963be2c2a7fe7c0f89c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-Walsh-J_0041 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Penrod Studio Title A name given to the resource Picturesque Grist Mill, Saugatuck, Mich. postcard Description An account of the resource Postcard featuring an incomplete scan of Peterson Mill located in Saugatuck, Michigan. The postcard depicts a dark brown mill in the midst of a forest, there is a small boy in red in the right hand corner of the photograph. There is no handwriting on the back of the postcard, however the typed description in the upper lefthand corner reads: "Picturesque Grist Mill at Saugatuck, Michigan. Well known as a summer resort and art center, Saugatuck offers ample accomodations and entertainment for your vacation pleasure." Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dexter Press Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Postcards Gristmills Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file contributed by Jerri Walsh as part of the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8e6de81c50b8be0877453c1643096a8d.jpg 0e892a9f1b7436cc3ce224847091da30 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/edbf37aea40940d2f48e0e85e01fb2f7.jpg 5ebeee3ff3f7d8347e74c45d4e7b7874 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-Walsh-J_0043 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Penrod Studio Title A name given to the resource Lake Kalamazoo, Saugatuck, Mich. postcard Description An account of the resource Postcard of Lake Kalamazoo and the vibrant lakeside community of Saugatuck, Michigan. The front of the postcard depicts many different boats on Lake Kalamazoo as the day turns to night and lights are shining on the water. Coral Gables and the village's active dockside community can be seen in the distance. The back of the postcard bares no handwriting but the description in the upper lefthand corner reads: "Saugatuck, Michigan. As evening nears, the lights of Saugatuck sparkle and dance across the waters of Lake Kalamazoo. Saugatuck offers a wide variety of activities and entertainment for your vacation pleasure. 'Relax at Saugatuck.'" Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dexter Press Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Postcards Outdoor recreation Lakes Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file contributed by Jerri Walsh as part of the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1650020f585d9021e90498de5153cb1f.jpg 3b49987c867b443ce8a12f162824220a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/015d8d0f5d5cd39ab1b083c52108eaed.jpg 601818d13dd0034668f64f99bc035c20 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-Walsh-J_0045 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Penrod Studio Title A name given to the resource Coral Gables, Saugatuck, Mich. postcard Description An account of the resource Postcard featuring Coral Gables, Hotel Saugatuck, and The Old Crow Bar located in downtown Saugatuck, Michigan. The front of the postcard shows a busy street and nightlife, with the featured businesses lit up at night. The back of the postcard bares no handwriting but the description in the upper lefthand corner reads: "Coral Gables-Saugatuck, Michigan. Come by boat, bus or car but don't miss a visit to Coral Gables while vacationing at Saugatuck. This area offers a wide variety of activities and entertainment for your pleasure. 'Relax at Saugatuck.'" Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dexter Press Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Postcards Central business districts Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file contributed by Jerri Walsh as part of the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bc9c5946cff019a4d87508a934f05725.jpg 6d859f087bac90ae6289ac82af303179 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/38b5d03099ddc9215d3f74f50fcd199d.jpg 557a7e1b103bfb4b5a19276d320d280c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-Walsh-J_0053 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Penrod Studio Title A name given to the resource Sunset over Lake Michigan postcard Description An account of the resource Postcard of a beautiful sunset over Lake Michigan. The front features a couple standing on the beach, overlooking Lake Michigan as the sun is setting. The sky is a bright orange and is reflecting off of the water. There is no handwriting on the back of the postcard, however, the bottom left hand corner has the following description typed: "The unforgettable beauty of a sunset over Lake Michigan." Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dexter Press Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Postcards Beaches Outdoor recreation Michigan, Lake Twilight Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file contributed by Jerri Walsh as part of the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/968a16c42748634966ce99abf362c287.jpg fa85e1afd036d14c66da21e0dcdb9766 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/33421bf1b3a35071f104994f944c5d75.jpg 7b4ea8d2232674a0922a5b44e4012c65 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-Walsh-J_0055 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Penrod Studio Title A name given to the resource Saugatuck Ferry, Saugatuck, Mich. postcard Description An account of the resource Postcard of the "Saugatuck Ferry" in Saugatuck, Michigan featuring a large group of people enjoying their ride across the water. The tree-lined shore is nearby in the background. There is no handwriting on the back of the postcard, however, the typed description in the upper left-hand corner reads: "Saugatuck Ferry. Everyone loves to ride across the channel of the Kalamazoo River on the unique chain ferry. The Saugatuck-Douglas area of West Michigan offers the visitor a wide variety of fun-filled activities and excellent accomodations. Relax at Saugatuck." Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dexter Press Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Postcards Outdoor recreation Kalamazoo River (Mich.) Ferries Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file contributed by Jerri Walsh as part of the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c2efc3270ddc2421486ae4288738ff0f.jpg ca6c7cfd784a2d47f6bf9e407aa54ce9 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/94c20a9095e719819661cd1e712b66e9.jpg 17260cc808b7774e0379526e8f2aa0cf Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-Walsh-J_0057 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Penrod Studio Title A name given to the resource View overlooking Oval Beach, Saugatuck, Mich. postcard Description An account of the resource Postcard of Oval Beach from the view overlooking the parking lot in Saugatuck, Michigan. The front features a wide shot of the beach on Lake Michigan and a parking lot full of cars lined up on the right side of the photograph. The typed description in the upper left-hand corner reads: "Saugatuck, Michigan. Everyone enjoys a day at the beach. This is part of the fun of a vacation at Saugatuck." The writing on the left-hand side is upside down, but reads: " Circle L. 24 5-5065. Cookie phone, Williams Bay, Wisconsin." The postcard is addressed to Jeff Fons 4055 Rabina, Berkley, Mich. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dexter Press Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Postcards Beaches Outdoor recreation Sand dunes Michigan, Lake Automobiles Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file contributed by Jerri Walsh as part of the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/99aa80994e70ac2098d5b77fdab2ad2a.jpg 9ccfc41e2b5344db0eb182636d2e6854 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fd797ce372bc437800c308865e393f6d.jpg 53ccaf5a04db2d93708bddec0821fd07 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-Walsh-J_0059 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Penrod Studio Title A name given to the resource Lake Michigan, Southwestern Mich. postcard Description An account of the resource Postcard featuring the Lake Michigan shore of Southwestern Michigan. The postcard is a close up image of the waves crashing on the shore. There are trees in the distance and the sky is a clear light blue. The back of the postcard has no handwriting and the typed description on the lower left side reads: "Lake Michigan. Southwestern Michigan. Beautiful Lake Michigan with its miles of excellent beaches offers the summer visitors fun and relaxation. Plan to spend your vacation in Southwestern Michigan." Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dexter Press Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Postcards Beaches Sand dunes Michigan, Lake Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file contributed by Jerri Walsh as part of the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7151b6cb7d6a3169cef49ef49272eb66.jpg 5a0535e45afcb4785fc4cad847628e6d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/02260cda81a9439c94bbd0d0b7e659e9.jpg f55a8852107ed8ef0e26bbaf25907ce4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-Walsh-J_0063 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Penrod Studio Title A name given to the resource Lake Michigan, Western Mich. postcard Description An account of the resource Postcard featuring the Lake Michigan shore of Western Michigan. The postcard has the focus of the image on a young tree in the middle of the sand. In the distance the waves are softly crashing. The back of the postcard has no handwriting and the typed description on the lower left side reads: "Lake Michigan. Beautiful Lake Michigan with its miles of excellent beaches offers the summer visitors fun and relaxation. Plan to spend your vacation in Western Michigan." Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dexter Press Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Postcards Beaches Sand dunes Michigan, Lake Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file contributed by Jerri Walsh as part of the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/568d16d78abd1412eb48daaade048e74.jpg 6de3c33902c24ab947882061256c2ced https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/61d53146648460fc8be70f66280de8a0.jpg 21d43d3d92c330d10f2f194f916b9a0c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-Walsh-J_0065 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Penrod Studio Title A name given to the resource Aerial view of Saugatuck, Mich. postcard Description An account of the resource Postcard showcasing an aerial view of Saugatuck, Michigan and the neighboring Kalamazoo River flowing to Lake Michigan. The majority of the land shown in the image is covered in forest and sand dunes are seen by the lakeshore. There is no handwriting on the back of the postcard and the typed description in the upper left corner reads: "Saugatuck, Michigan. Aerial view shows Saugatuck's unique location along the shores and bathing beach of Lake Michigan. Lake Kalamazoo in the foreground makes an ideal natural harbor for all kinds of boating activities." Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dexter Press Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Postcards Sand dunes Michigan, Lake Aerial views Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file contributed by Jerri Walsh as part of the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/268f8f2b18ef72b27beb30aa2bc779fb.jpg fca111d21bc330dada82934f56d345e2 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e56137e2620f7718eeb54868fcf767b8.jpg 6fdf68eb042d99dde86d15815daeefb8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-Walsh-J_0067 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Penrod Studio Title A name given to the resource Lake Michigan shore postcard Description An account of the resource Postcard of the Lake Michigan shoreline where the sand dunes overlook the water. The sky has wispy clouds and the dunes are covered in trees. The back of the postcard has no handwriting and the typed description in the lower left reads: "Lake Michigan. Come to Michigan for a real vacation. The water is fine, accomodations plentiful and the scenery superb." Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dexter Press Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Postcards Beaches Sand dunes Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Digital file contributed by Jerri Walsh as part of the Stories of Summer project. Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/df60d4c4d55fc4be461510286eafd272.pdf d65892c76391c8f14a8965176500de57 PDF Text Text Peo1·i -'7 t.rfie'28th, 1912. De, Fellow Men1ber: Don't you believe that it would not only be an enjoyable week's vacation, but also a good tonic after a strenuous l1usiness year to attend the PEORIA ROWING FESTIVAL Trio of Rowing Regattas including the • Fortieth Anniversary of the National Assn. of Amateur Oarsmen PEORIA LAKE--ILLINOIS RIVER--PEORIA, ILL. AUGUST 5th to 10th If any one should say to your face that we, THE PEORIA REGATTA ASSOCIATION, could get along without you, it would make you mad-good and mad! Don't-for Heaven's sake--idon't qualify yourself by saying or thinking, for a minute, that we can get along without you. Every mother's son of you have got (GOT-did you get that) to be there. Just peruse over this menu:.- MONDAY, AUGUST 5th Six Junior Events of Central States Amateur Rowing Association Special Events Swimming and Tub Races Evening - Fireworks and Band Concert TUESDAY, AUGUST 6th Six Senior Events of Central States Amateur Rowing Association Special Events Canoe Races WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 7th Six Junior Events of Southwestern Amateur Rowing Association Feature Event - - Free-for-all Four-Oared-Shell Race open to the World for Peoria Trophy. Special Events Evening - - - - Sailing and Swimming Races Water Base Ball Game and Band Concert • THURSDAY, AUGUST 8th Six Senior Events of Southwestern Amateur Rowing Association Special Events - - Canoe Races FRIDAY, AUGUST 9th Six Events of National Association of Amateur Oarsmen Feature Event - - Free-for-all Eight-Oared-Shell Race open to the World for Peoria Trophy. Evening - - Fireworks and Band Concert • SATlJRDAY, AUGUST 10th Six Events of National Association of Amateur Oarsmen Evening - - • Presentation of Medals and Trophies Can you beat it? Mind you, we are going to put this over and put it over right, and we want you to enjoy our effo1·ts. • For just this once, cut loose and have a good time:-get what is coming to you . • Man alive! It will oil up those old rusty joints and give you a complexion like a spanked baby ! Come and see Peoria, the livest and most progressive city in the West. magnificent water course, the finest in the world. See our Boil all your previous Regattas into one and you'll have a faint, distant glimmer of what this one's going to be.. · And we're trying to break it to you just as gently as possible, at that! If you haven't yet decided-for sure:-you're comingFor the love of the N. A. A. 0. do so NOW. On the level, PEORIA REGATTA ASSOCIATION. ' � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Rapids Boat and Canoe Club collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Rapids Boat and Canoe Club Description An account of the resource Scrapbooks of newsclippings, photographs, postcards, and ephemera of the Grand Rapids Boat and Canoe Club. Photos were taken at regattas on Reeds Lake; the Grand River; Peoria, Illinois; and in Chicago of club members, and events. Historical articles, reports of regatta events, and articles featuring members Charles McQuewan and Jack Corbett are included. Programs include the First Grand Regatta on Great Salt Lake 1888, and Peoria Rowing Festival, and banquet and music programs and the GR Log, a publication of the Grand Rapids Boat and Canoe Club. Materials from the Central States Amater Rowing Association, and the National Association of Amateur Oarsmen are also included. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource circa 1980s to 1940s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/481">Grand Rapids Boat and Canoe Club scrapbooks, (RHC-54)</a> Subject The topic of the resource Grand Rapids (Mich.) Outdoor recreation Boats and boating Racing shells Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-54 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-54_Ephemera-GRRC_E04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Peoria Regatta Association Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1912-06-28 Title A name given to the resource Peoria Rowing Festival Invitation and Program Description An account of the resource Invitation and menu of events for the Peoria Rowing Festival including the fortieth anniversary of the National Ass. Of Amateur Oarsmen. The festival was to be held August 5-10th of 1912, with multiple events and activities each day. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Grand Rapids Rowing Club Subject The topic of the resource Peoria (Ill.) Outdoor recreation Boats and boating Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/481">Grand Rapids Boat and Canoe Club scrapbooks (RHC-54)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NKC/1.0/">No Known Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/08598a3ee250b7a8f48154aac462e84d.pdf fd3ecd45fb68de144e019dbbec8702b2 PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Incunabula Description An account of the resource The term incunabula refers to books printed between 1450 and 1500, approximately the first fifty years following the invention, by Johann Gutenberg of Mainz, of printing from moveable type. Our collection includes over 200 volumes and numerous unbound leaves from books printed during this period. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1450/1500 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Incunabula Collection (DC-03) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United </a> Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource text Language A language of the resource eng it la nl de Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sermones de tempore et de sanctis [folium 164] Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03_164Peregrinus1479 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Peregrinus Description An account of the resource One leaf from Sermones de tempore et de sanctis by Peregrinus. Printed in Ulm by Johann Zainer not after 1479. Illustated with red rubricated initals and illustrated with hand drawn arm and hand. [GW M30917; ISTC ip00267000] Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Ulm: Johann Zainer Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Language A language of the resource la Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1479 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Text https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6d0e0164b3347367750b35894367272f.m4v b90c96677e612e01f4f9a5600c87949e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/71bab39970fb6e66e4efb7fb3473e06a.pdf 4065c2a3af093f9c739433f37e938343 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran's History Project US Navy Monica Allen Périn Total Time (00:49:28) Introduction (00:00:24)  Monica was born October 2nd, 1953 at the Bethesda Naval Hospital in Maryland; her father was in the Navy while her mother was an officer in the Navy Nurse Corps (00:00:45)  Her father was stationed at the Pentagon in Washington D.C., when she was born (00:00:59)  Monica finished high school in 1971; her family traveled a lot due to being in the military which caused her to be in five different high schools in four years (00:02:13) ◦ Monica went to an arts and crafts college in California before transferring to Texas A&M University; she received a degree in social anthropology while her minor was in art (00:04:30) ◦ She had trouble finding a job straight out of college so she decided to join the military; her father swore her in at Detroit as she went to Officer Candidate School (OCS) in March of 1979 in Newport, Rhode Island (00:06:27) ◦ Mostly career military people trained those at OCS; she was quite impressed by those that had trained her (00:08:42) ▪ After her four months of training at OCS, she was commissioned and sent to Athens, Georgia for Supply Corps school (00:09:15) ▪ The technology wasn't that great at the time and Monica remembers having to sign 2,000 checks by hand before she received a stamp with her name on it (00:10:39) ▪ Around eight of the 45 that attended the school were women; she comments that most people were pretty receptive and open to the idea of women being in the school (00:12:42) First Assignment / Overseas (00:13:01)  Her first assignment was as a disbursing officer to the naval support activity in Naples, Italy (00:13:05)  About $43,000 in checks and cash were stolen while they were in Italy by an armed group; they eventually got the money back due to insurance (00:14:23)  Monica said life was great while in Naples as they lived off bases (00:16:36) ◦ She stayed there for about two years on her first tour; on her 2nd tour she stayed for three years and finally she came back for five years as a reserve officer- she spent about ten years total in Naples (00:17:13) ◦ Monica says it wasn't a problem trying to adjust to military life as her family background helped quite a bit for this (00:18:15) ◦ After her first tour in Italy, she went back to the United States to work as a purchasing officer for the Navy supply center in Bremerton, Washington on the shipyard; she did this for about three years (00:19:03) ▪ The four central parts of the military were starting to work together more as time went on, Monica notes as the attitudes of the military changed over time (00:21:24) ▪ After some time in California, she went back to Naples to work as the commander in chief allied forces Southern Europe mess officer (00:21:57) �▪ During Operation Desert Shield, she was recalled for contracting support to Abu Dhabi, Dubai (00:24:01)  Although she joined the Navy to obtain a job, she promised herself that she would still do art as she ended up getting her masters degree in art history & museum management (00:25:19)  After finishing her masters degree in 1993, she went back to Naples to work with a local reserve unit called the voluntary training unit (00:27:05)  Monica got a job while in the Navy to work as a combat artist while overseas (00:28:39) ◦ Her subject was men and women in the military and often she would ask for rides to wherever just so she could talk to new subjects (00:28:47) ◦ She met her admiral while coming back to Naples as her admiral had no idea they even had an artist on the payroll; she says they had a great chat on the way back and everything went fine (00:31:33) ◦ While in Bosnia she saw a lot of buildings that were damaged from mortar fire; she did a painting of a marketplace in Mostar while the war was going on and she mentions it was business as usual in the market (00:34:57) ▪ She was commissioned to get fresh fruit and vegetables on the USS Seattle and tells a story of how incredible it was to do that (00:38:43) ▪ While she was in Dubai she went with an Indian family to an old oasis; she had no problems being a western woman in this particular instance on this side of the world (00:40:03)  For two years, as a part of Operation Iraqi Freedom, she was sent out to cover when the United States went into Libya to the USS Bataan to do a series of different paintings (00:43:04)  Monica stayed in the Mediterranean while the fighting in Iraq and Kuwait was going on (00:44:07) ◦ Women are allowed the option to stay longer into the military than men as Monica had the option to stay in til age 60; she wanted to stay in as long as possible (00:48:59) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_PerinM1651V Title A name given to the resource Périn, Monica Allen (Interview outline and video), 2014 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-06-23 Description An account of the resource Monica Allen Périn was born October 2nd, 1953 at the Bethesda Naval Hospital in Maryland her father was in the Navy at the time of her birth. She finished high school in 1971 after transferring from five different high schools. She had trouble finding a job once she graduated college so she decided to join the Navy. She worked in Athens, Italy for over 10 years in her career and eventually became a combat artist for the Navy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Périn, Monica Allen Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/x-m4v application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/18c365546a932e069d6a5ab3e13666b3.pdf d7b3db4290006fea9fb15690ae91823a PDF Text Text 1 Grand Valley State University Special Collections Kent County Oral History collections, RHC-23 Miss Mabel Perkins Interviewed on September 16, 1971 Edited and indexed by Don Bryant, 2010 – bryant@wellswooster.com Tape #11 (45:50) Biographical Information Mabel Helen Perkins was born 26 July 1880, daughter of Cyrus Edwin and Della A. (Foote) Perkins. Mabel died November 1974. Cyrus E. Perkins was born 9 October 1847 in Lawrence, Massachusetts, the son of Cyrus E. and Lydia M. (Birney) Perkins. He died 23 May 1918 in Grand Rapids, Michigan and is buried in Oak Hill Cemetery. Della Antoinette Foote was born 24 Aug 1848 in Olcott, Niagara County, New York to Elijah and Olivia (Luce) Foote. Della died in Grand Rapids in 1936. She and Cyrus had been married 20 September 1876 in Kent County, Michigan. ___________ Interviewer: Miss Perkins, you’ve lived here all your life, and it’s more than ninety years now, what did your father do, where did your father come from? Miss. Perkins: Oh, my father came from the east, Massachusetts, directly from Boston, but he was only nine years old when he came here with his family. They came over, on the train as far as Jackson and then over corduroy road into Grand Rapids. Interviewer: A corduroy road? Miss Perkins: Yes. Interviewer: What is a corduroy road? Miss Perkins: A corduroy road is, is logged, they’re logs laid side by side, dirt put over the top. Interviewer: Why did your father’s family come to Grand Rapids, what brought them here? Miss Perkins: Oh, because they were having a hard time making a living off their stony farms in Maine and Connecticut and they came out here to get their farming land. My grandfather however wasn’t a farmer, he never farmed, he worked in the city. I don’t know what he did. Interviewer: What did your father do… what kind of business? Miss Perkins: My father, well, he studied law here with one of the lawyers in Grand Rapids, Judge Harlan, I remember, and then he was a lawyer, and for his first, he became judge of probate when he was just a young man, before he was married. And he was judge of probate for many years here. �2 Interviewer: Where did you grow up as a child? Miss Perkins: Here in Grand Rapids, oh, in Boston up to nine. He was nine years old when he left. Interviewer: Oh, I see. Where did you grow up as a child? Miss Perkins: I? Interviewer: Yes, what part of the city? Miss Perkins: I? Interviewer: Yes. Miss Perkins: You were talking about me? Interviewer: Yes. Miss Perkins: Why, I grew up right on Washington Street, that’s where I was born in the house on [327] Washington Street. Interviewer: I used to live next door to you, I don’t know if you remember that, I used to have a red sports car, and I’d be out polishing my car, I remember you used to come outside, and just look at the car, and it always seemed to me there was a gleam in your eye when you looked at that red sports car. Miss Perkins: I don’t remember, no. I don’t hear awfully well, you better talk a little louder. Interviewer: Alright, what was it like living on Washington Street, what was it like living there as a child? Miss Perkins: Very pleasant, it was a very quiet, charming street then, beautifully shaded in trees, just convenient to Downing[?] Street, you see, wonderful neighborhood and everything was very pleasant. School, Fountain Street School. I always walked to school. Wasn’t so dangerous crossing Fulton in those days. We used to slide down Fulton, as a matter of fact. Interviewer: During the wintertime? Miss Perkins: Yes, during the winter. It was just, we generally started it then, Prospect Street, went down to Jefferson Avenue. It’s good, steep hill. Interviewer: Yes. Miss Perkins: But the favorite hill of the town was Washington Street. They use to come from all over the city, big boys with great big bobs, and slide down Washington Street hill, because �3 there wasn’t so much traffic crossing it, you see, and this, had the, it sanded just before it got to Jefferson Avenue. Interviewer: Oh, I see. Miss Perkins: Jefferson Avenue was a big street in those days. We used to have horse races every Sunday, did I tell you that when you were here before? Interviewer: No. Miss Perkins: Every Sunday they had horse races during the winter on Jefferson Ave. Cutting, the horses drawing their cutters, you know. My father used to take me down and we’d stand, on the sidelines and the watch men go by. Oh, it was such fun. Just one horse and a cutter, you know. And they always had foxtails on their ropes, and the foxtails all floated out behind. I thought it was wonderful. Quite a sight. Interviewer: Did your father ever race any horses himself? Miss Perkins: Oh no, no, father didn’t but he was very much interested. My father lived on Jefferson Avenue as a boy, before he was married. Interviewer: Where abouts on Jefferson? Miss Perkins: Oh, the house has been gone for a long, long time. It was a red brick house that sat way back from the street, I remember. And it had chickens, everybody had chickens or cows or things around town then. I’d wake up in the morning and hear the cows mooing, and I just loved it. Interviewer: Was Jefferson Avenue quite a residential area at one time? Miss Perkins: Oh, yes, that was one of the main residential areas; the rich, richest people in town lived on it. Jefferson Avenue. Interviewer: That would be on Jefferson, approximately where those stores all are now, yes? Miss Perkins: It would be beginning for about Island Street, I remember, the big house. There were two big houses on each corner. They don’t call it Island Street now, Weston. Interviewer: Yes. Miss Perkins: Is it Weston? Interviewer: Yes. Miss Perkins: Two big houses on either side and then the big houses stretched on down towards Wealthy. �4 Interviewer: Well, that was, when you were growing up that was the days before the automobile? Miss Perkins: Oh, heavens, hadn’t even dreamed of an automobile. It was the days before bicycles, the bicycles came in. And the, Washington Street was one of the first streets paved in the city. They paved State Street, they put up cedar blocks on State Street, that was the first pavement, they tried out the cedar blocks. And on Washington Street they tried out asphalt. And so asphalt, it was the first pavement in front of our house. And oh, how we used to love to ride our bicycles on that. We had bicycles by the time that was down. The whole, everybody and anywhere in the neighborhood, oh anywhere in that quarter of the city, came to ride their bicycles on that pavement. Interviewer: Must have been pretty crowded at times. Miss Perkins: Oh, we had a lot of fun. Interviewer: Did people used to go up and down your street in horse and carriages and things like that? Miss Perkins: Oh, surely, surely. There was a young girl living across the street from me that knew all about horses. I didn’t, I was afraid of horses, but we’d sit on the porch, on the stoop, as we used to call it, and she would blindfold her eyes and then she would tell what horse was coming up the street, and who the coachman was. And who was driving, and all about, “Here comes Mr. Fuller” she’d say, with his foot hanging out the side, as usual and old Molly on ahead. Molly was… she knew the names of the horses. Interviewer: How did she tell who the horses were, and so on? Miss Perkins: Oh, she knew it, she could tell by the fall of the, that ole horse had a particular gait, you know. She knew that old klop, klop klop….. and, she would, she would on, she knew Mr., Knot.(?), lived on the top of the street, you know, and he’d be coming along with his blacks, he had a wonderful pair of black horses, always with coachman driving, she knew that, and Mr. [Samuel] Jenks, who lived on the corner, he had, he had bays, she knew them. She could tell by the gait of the horse. Interviewer: Who are some of your neighbors in those days? Miss Perkins: Who were some of the neighbors? Interviewer: Yes. Who lived along Washington Street and up on College and so on? Miss Perkins: Well, it was Judge [Loyal E] Knappen. That lived right across the street, and then later it was Mr. Wylie, the bank president, and Mr. [Edward] Fitzgerald lived across the street on the corner. He was also a banker, and went to California later, the whole family went to California, after his death, so we don’t recognize that name in Grand Rapids anymore, but it was a very prominent family. Mr. [Edmund D.] Barry had a house next door, that house is still there, �5 well, both those houses are. And, he was a son-in-law of the banker. And then the Knappen’s. I don’t remember who lived right across from me, when I was a little girl it was a man named Donnelly, but he was the only Democrat on the street. And when Cleveland was elected and the Republicans were just defeated from one end to the other, there wasn’t a Republican elected, oh, Mr. Donnelly was right in his…element. I remember him calling upon by father, you see, who was running for Judge of Probate, and that was the only time that he was defeated. Interviewer: I wonder why, why was that, why did the Democrats sweep everything that year? Miss Perkins: I’ve forgotten, of course I was just a little girl, I’ve forgotten the ins and outs, but there was an absolute clean sweep. Not a Republican was elected. And, of course, this was a Republican state. But, there was a man, there was a well, I won’t say anything about it, because they have relatives in Grand Rapids, but this man was also a neighbor, lived around on Lafayette Street was elected, and then, the end of the first year he skipped with a lady and all the money that was in the office. So then they had a Democratic governor, but everybody in Grand Rapids got up an enormous petition, every, everybody, Republicans, Democrats, everybody signed and sent it down to the Democratic governor to have father reappointed Judge of Probate, and the Democratic governor appointed him Judge of Probate. So he got his old office back, and that was his only defeat. Interviewer: Was the Waters’ estate built then? Miss Perkins: Oh, yes, oh, the Waters’ estate I don’t know when that was built, but that was built long before I was born. Interviewer: What was it like up there? Did you ever go up there and play as a child? Miss Perkins: Oh yes, did I tell you about the time I ran away with the little boy across the street? Interviewer: No. Miss Perkins: We dragged our sleds up there, it was in the middle of summer, but we wanted to go sliding on those hills, so we dragged our sleds up there, and we were so surprised, oh, it was a perfectly charming place then. It was a little rustic bridge that crossed a little ravine and, you went over the little rustic bridge and, there was a perfectly charming little summerhouse, with lattice windows all around it and it had iron French furniture on the porch. Thought it was wonderful, just simply wonderful. And , but finally we had to go home, and when we were going home the cook in the big Waters house saw us going by and knew that we were little runaways and she called to us and said, “Children, would you like a little bit of ice cream?” Well, you can imagine…And so we went up there and she took a trap door up from the back porch and way down in the coolness of the underneath the porch in the, in the, well there was a sort of a well �6 there, she pulled out this ice cream and gave it to us, each a dish. It was wonderful. But my mother didn’t like it at all, and I got a severe scolding when I got home. Interviewer: For running away or eating ice cream? Miss Perkins: For running away… Interviewer: Oh. Miss Perkins: For running away… Should never have done it. She looked for me and she didn’t know where to find me, and it frightened her, of course. Interviewer: Was there, were there houses, was Gay Street built at that time? Did Gay Street run between Washington and Fulton? Miss Perkins: No, no, that was an apple orchard. You see, that property on Fulton Street was the Campau property, and Mr. Campau had intended, in fact he did build a big house there, but before he finished that house his bank failed, the River, Grand River Bank, it failed. And he felt so terribly about it, that he stopped all the building of the house, he never moved in and he lived in his little house where he was living at that time and gradually paid off everybody that had invested in his bank. Interviewer: Is that right? Miss Perkins: Yes. Interviewer: He must have been quite a man. Miss Perkins: He was, but we used to love to go in the, this was, it was all empty, great big staircase running up, and on the top was a cupola, you know, one of those lookout places and we used to go up there, we loved to go up there, it was so romantic, and the whole, the whole cupola was painted with the Grand River Valley Bank Notes. Never been used, you know, they weren’t even cut up. They were all together in a block, and he painted the cupola with those old worthless bank notes. Interviewer: When did that Campau house come down? The house that’s built on the property? Miss Perkins: Well, I don’t know, that’s very recently. Interviewer: Is it? Miss Perkins: Yes. Interviewer: What a… Miss Perkins: Very recently, I suppose, must have been twenty [or] thirty years ago. �7 Interviewer: The Gay, people, furniture company, built that big green house? Miss Perkins: Yes. Interviewer: That stands on their property now? Miss Perkins: They did, and that, I was going to say about the orchard, the orchards sloped down from this Campau house, that was Campau property. That whole section is the Campau addition, that’s the way it’s, it’s on the city books. And my brother and Arthur Vandenberg used to play in that orchard a great deal. It was wonderful to have that for a playground for boys, and they built cabins there and had caves, they had a wonderful time. They had a cave, that was their first project, they made a cave and my mother was worried about that she had my father go up and look at it to see if it was safe for the boys. My father said no, they couldn’t play there. So they must build a cabin on top of the ground. So they did. Interviewer: In your neighborhood when you were growing up, did people have a lot of activities together? Miss Perkins: No, as a neighborhood, no, not especially, no they didn’t. Interviewer: Did people spend much time on, their porches? Miss Perkins: Oh, yes, everybody sat on their front porch and did embroidery. Interviewer: Did embroidery? Miss Perkins: It was embroidery rather than knitting, everybody was doing embroidery in my childhood days. Interviewer: Was that a peaceful time, was that a peaceful day? Miss Perkins: I didn’t hear you. Interviewer: That period of time, was it, was it more peaceful than it is today, do you think? Miss Perkins: No, I don’t think there were more people. Interviewer: No, peaceful, peaceful? Miss Perkins: Peaceful? Interviewer: Yes. Miss Perkins: I get you. You were always extremely peaceful, you couldn’t have asked for anything more peaceful. It was just quiet as could be and every morning the, the man came around with his wagon all full of vegetables you know, and you went out and bought your vegetables, your fresh vegetables. Milkman came around first thing in the morning. Oh, it was �8 peace itself… Cocks were crowing. You could hear crows cawing in the winter. It was much, much more like a village and less like a big city. However, it was always, always a considerable size, but I mean people did have room to have their own cows. Now, for instance, where I am, where we are now there was always a cow there behind the Ledyard property, we’re on the Ledyard property now. And, Mr. and, well it was Katherine Lockwood’s grandfather that lived next door, can’t think of his name now. Interviewer: Not Pantlind? The one before Pantlind? Miss Perkins: No, Pantlind was her…. Her name. her father’s name was Pantlind and I don’t connect him with Grand Rapids. He came here as a hotel man, you know. Interviewer: Let’s see, Aldrich, was it Aldrich? Miss Perkins: Aldrich, that’s what I mean, the Aldrich family was next door. It was Mrs. Aldrich, Mrs. Aldrich’s daughter, that gave that fountain out there on the corner that’s been stolen. Interviewer: They recently moved that, they removed that statue over to John Ball Park. Miss Perkins: Oh, did they? Interviewer: Yes, they put it over there now. Miss Perkins: Well, I thought they were going to take it over there, but somebody told me it had been stolen again. Interviewer: Yes. Miss Perkins: It was lost for a long time, you know, they found it, in Fisk Lake, I guess Interviewer: Oh, where did the country begin? What was out in the country in those days? Miss Perkins: Beyond the east, Eastern, we took, you got a streetcar as far as Eastern, and then you got off of the streetcar and on a little dummy line, that went out to the lake, and the country really began about there. Interviewer: Were there farms out in that area, were there mostly farms? Miss Perkins: Well, I don’t remember farms exactly, I don’t really truly remember much about what was in that part of the country. But it was all open land, it must have been farms. Interviewer: When you, you went to the public schools in Grand Rapids? Miss Perkins: Fountain. Interviewer: Yes, where did you go to college? �9 Miss Perkins: Vassar. Interviewer: Did many, many girls, the daughters of the people living in this area, go off to eastern schools? Miss Perkins: Well, the first went, the first young woman that went to an eastern school went to Vassar. I think she was Eleanor Withey, Mr. Lew Withey’s sister, who was a very up and coming girl and she, nobody had been there, if they’d been away to school at all it would have been to a finishing school. But she wanted to go to college and she found out about Vassar, and she went to Vassar. And she was so enthusiastic about Vassar, she, she loved every brick in its buildings, and she induced a lot of Grand Rapids people. At first, anybody going away to college didn’t think of anything but Vassar. Then gradually Smith came in and later Wellesley. But the first girls that went from, that went east to college, went to Vassar. And Mrs. Willard is the one that induced me to go to Vassar. Interviewer: Who is Mrs. Willard? Miss Perkins: . Willard was the, she married Mr. Willard, she was Eleanor Withey…the only girl in the Withey family and quite important. She was very, very smart, and after she came back here, she wanted to study art and she went to, the Art Institute in Chicago. Don’t think she did much in the art line, but she was, she stayed on as a volunteer in the art gallery, and learned all about managing, how it was managed and so forth. So when we started our art gallery here, Mrs. Willard of course was one of the prime movers and she was the first director of the art gallery; and because she knew more about art than any other of the women that was instrumental in starting it, she organized the Grand Rapid’s Art Gallery on the line of the Art Institute in Chicago. Everything was just the same and it has been all these years, they have changed the directors and increased the work and it’s grown in importance in various and sundry ways. But fundamentally, it’s just , it’s worked out just as Mrs. Willard organized it. Interviewer: When, when was the art gallery founded? Miss Perkins: I ought to know, but I think it was, I think it was nineteen thirteen, or somewhere around in there. Interviewer: Were you active in the art gallery from the beginning? Miss Perkins: Oh, all my life, all my life, cause my mother was the one, one of the prime movers in starting it. She, she’d been put on some committee to start some sort of work for the city, that would be in the interest of the city, and after long deliberation they hit upon starting an art gallery for Grand Rapids. Wasn’t any great demand for an art gallery at the time, I thought, but my mother said there would be, and we ought to have an organization, we ought to have everything ready for the time it was coming, when they would want and would need an art gallery. So we began and believe me it was uphill work. �10 Interviewer: What, can you tell me about some of the problems that you had in starting the gallery? Miss Perkins: Well, there was always one problem, money, money, money, money. Everything came back to that. And unfortunately there, the women who started it, none of them had any amount of money to turn in, to give to the city, so we started out poor, and it’s been a very, very difficult job. Because as it grew stronger, as its influence grew wider, by that time men weren’t giving their money in that sort of way. There were all these foundations came into being, and that’s another matter. A man gives his wealth to a foundation instead of giving it to different organizations, you see. And that made a great difference. Interviewer: How did it make a difference exactly? Miss Perkins: Because there were also of men that would have given to the art, you know they didn’t know where to put their money. And they would say to the lawyer “Now, let me see. I ought to give away a certain amount” in making their wills, you know a lawyer would say “How about this and that organization, they need it.” I know the lawyers have told me that was the procedure many times. And, then, the donor would give a good sized gift to different organizations in this, in the city, different civic movements. But by then, but then this business of having a foundation came in, and you give to the foundation. The foundation is supposed to give to the different organizations, but you can see the difference, if a , if you had control of the money, you know how you could spend it as you wish, but if you’re going to get it from a foundation, and the foundations have been very generous to the art gallery, there’s no question about that, but you have to have your project lined out, you have to go and ask for the money, you see. You can’t, you don’t have the freedom that you’d have if you had control of the money. You can’t count on it. You always have to ask for it. Interviewer: Well, then in other words, when the art museum was in its founding days, the people with a great deal of money in town, the great amounts of money, weren’t particularly involved in it? Miss Perkins: No, they weren’t. Mr. [Blodgett?] tried to get them interested but they all had their own ideas. Blodgett’s for example, Mrs. Blodgett was on the first board, she was very much interested in founding the gallery, working it up. But they had their big Blodgett Hospital that they were putting up. Interviewer: Oh, they had their own little projects then. Miss Perkins: Yes. Interviewer: Were clubs and organizations important to people back then? Miss Perkins: Cultural? Well, you know the Ladies Literary Club was the first organization of that kind in the country. And it was a very, it was the first one to own its own building. It was �11 very important. That really was the big cultural movement for the women in the city, and it was good, it played a very important part in their lives. Interviewer: What what kind of a role did it play in their lives? Why was it important to them? Miss Perkins: Well, I’ve heard my mother always, she wasn’t able to go away to school, she said she didn’t know anything about these schools outside of Grand Rapids, you know, and she found it very, very educational. It gave her an outlet that, at the beginning the ladies all worked up their own papers, you know. They did a great deal of hard work, and my mother always thought it was a wonderful, educational opportunity. Interviewer: Is the Ladies Literary Club still thriving? Miss Perkins: I don’t, I, well the Ladies Literary Club it had so much competition in the Women’s City Club, for example, and there, there’s a great deal more in the cultural life now then there was then. Interviewer: I see. Miss Perkins: There are all kinds, well, look at all the colleges sprung up here, and there. Every college had some classes that are open to the public, they have different lectures, and well, it’s a different place entirely. I think it’s amazing how much cultural opportunities people have in Grand Rapids now, if they take, if they avail themselves of them. It didn’t used to be that way. Well, it started first with courses and lectures and courses in music, you know, the St. Cecilia Society came in there. Interviewer: Was that an important organization? Miss Perkins: That was very important when it was begun, and it was begun by some very important, society within Grand Rapids. It was very much a society thing to belong to the St. Cecilia. Interviewer: That’s not true anymore though… Miss Perkins: Not more than the, not more than the Literary Club. That was, that was the main movement here. Interviewer: Yes. Miss Perkins: Do you suppose that’s heard what I said? Interviewer: That’s an amazing thing isn’t it, that machine would hear this and pick it all up and put it down on tape. I hope so, want to see? Would you like to see if it’s picked it up? Miss Perkins: Yes. �12 Interviewer: Alright. [Track 2: transcribed directly from CD to Word] Interviewer: One impression that I have gotten from talking to the various people I have interviewed so far is that there was a way of life in the city that is no longer in existence, a style of living. A question that I have asked everybody is what, in their opinion, they think ended that style of living? Where the way that people lived before began evolving into the kind of living we have today, for example. Do you have any idea, what do you think it was? Miss Perkins: Well, I suppose it’s the wars, they changed everything. Interviewer: How did they change things? Miss Perkins: We were so very peaceful before, there was no trouble. Everything moved along slowly, smoothly, pleasantly. And I don’t remember any troubles at all. Then the wars came and the sadness and the disruption. I think that after the wars, life was changed. Interviewer: And the wars had quite a profound impact on at least Grand Rapids? Miss Perkins: East Grand Rapids? Interviewer: No, on the city of Grand Rapids. Miss Perkins: Oh. Well, I think it must. Interviewer: Yes. Miss Perkins: At least it was about that time, that life seemed to change. It was gradual, you know, it wasn’t all at once. Interviewer: Yes. Was your family, would you consider your family, the Perkins family as having been a member of the society? Miss Perkins: Well, there was no Perkins family, we were the only Perkins that were. Well there were other Perkins too, but they weren’t related to us. They weren’t our family. Interviewer: Ok. I was thinking of your mother and father, for example were they members of society? Miss Perkins: Yes, I suppose you might consider them such, especially my mother. My father was always a very quiet man, very dignified. Interviewer: Yes, what did? Pardon, excuse me. Go ahead. Miss Perkins: I suppose you would consider, they knew everybody and everybody knew them if that is what you consider society. I wouldn’t know what you really consider society. �13 Interviewer: Yes, I don’t know, I don’t know what society is either. There were a number of people that lived up on the hill, that were members of the diplomatic corp. weren’t there? Miss Perkins: Diplomatic? Oh, Mr. O’Brien was, but he was the only one. Mr. Gilbert wasn’t and he was a businessman but from the south and that seemed to make all kinds of difference. He was a southerner and married a Miss Gilbert and so came to live in Grand Rapids. They were definitely society people. Interviewer: Why do you say that? Miss Perkins: They sort of ruled things. There were some outstanding people. I remember when Mrs. Wonderly, she is Mrs. Pantlind’s aunt and she lived here on Cherry Street, Just about where we are sitting, no at little farther down. And she had a tea, a reception we called it in those days. She had a reception and she invited four hundred people. Those four hundred people were considered society. I happen to remember especially because there was one lady in Grand Rapids who was very ambitious and really did a great deal for herself and was very well known in many directions. Oh, she wasn’t invited and she wanted to be invited. I remember because I was just, you know a young girl in beginning high school and she came to my mother and wanted my mother to ask Mrs. Wonderly to invite her. Of course, mother wouldn’t, didn’t feel she had any business to do that. But that made an impression upon me. I was so young you know it made a deep impression to think this lady felt that it was so important to be invited to tea at Mrs. Wonderly’s. Interviewer: When you were growing up as a young lady, were there very many parties? Miss Perkins: Oh, all the while, all kinds of parties. Interviewer: What were the parties like? Miss Perkins: There were a great many women’s parties, just luncheons almost every, sometimes about every day in the week you would be going out to luncheon. And you always had your afternoon dresses and so forth and now no one knows what an afternoon dress is now. But we all had them in those days and we very much dressed up when we went out to luncheon. They were very elaborate luncheons with lots of different courses. Life is much simpler than it was in those days. Much simpler. Interviewer: Today life is much simpler? Miss Perkins: You see, it was service; there was always plenty of service in those days. Everybody had their own cook and maid, and entertaining was easy, simple. And people entertained a great deal. Interviewer: Were there very many dances? �14 Miss Perkins: Not so many dances; that was a little more labor. We used to go down to dances at the Pantlind. I was away a good deal of that time. I was abroad and traveling and in college, but when I came home I was so surprised to find these big dances down at the Pantlind. And then they used to have dances in the St. Cecilia Ballroom, when St. Cecilia was first built. It was quite a thing to go to a St. Cecilia dance. Interviewer: How? Miss Perkins: There were ballrooms in people’s houses on the third floor. Interviewer: Did you ever go to any dances that were on those third floor ballrooms? Miss Perkins: Well that, yes, but they were more crowded and they were smaller, you know. Interviewer: Yes, Miss Perkins: But they were fun. Interviewer: Were there any women in business, in those days, that had their own businesses? Miss Perkins: There weren’t many, there weren’t many. One of the first women that went into business was Grace Remington. Now Grace Remington, her father built the big red brick house on Washington Street the one with the pillars in front of it? That was the Remington house. It didn’t have pillars in those days. Mr. Remington was a lumberman and he made a fortune and he had a big house on Cherry Street. He lost that fortune, he made another fortune and built that house on Washington Street. But he lost that money and how I don’t know, but at any rate his daughters went into business for themselves. And Grace Remington formed the first ready to wear dress shop in Grand Rapids. Up until that time everybody employed a seamstress in their home. There dresses were homemade. Oh, there one or two women that’s right there were women that had dressmaker shops where they made dresses to fit you. But Miss Remington had the first shop where dresses were made outside at some factory or other and brought in. Interviewer: Where was her shop? Miss Perkins: It was down on the corner of LaGrave and Fulton Street in that little house. It is still there, I guess. It was a little brick house and it was owned by an old man named Mr. Blake and he had little gold earrings in his ears always and he kept a little candy shop, it was a candy shop there were windows, across the front with shelves with stick candies were in jars. I can remember my father taking me to that shop and said, “Now, Mabel I want you to remember what this little shop looks like, it is a little English shop. It is just like a little shop in an English village”. And he said “You will never see another in Grand Rapid like it.” My father was always doing that, taking, pointing out something that I should remember. And I never forgot that little shop. It was just as quaint as it could be. That was the shop where Grace Remington started her dressmaking store. She brought in ready to be made, the clothes already made from New York. �15 She was killed on that train wreck from New York to Grand Rapids. She and her principal workwoman, her buyer, they had been to New York and they had bought a new supply of clothes and they were coming home when that accident occurred [about January 12, 1919]. You know, Grand Rapids had the last sleeper on the train and it was always filled with Grand Rapids people. And there were a good many Grand Rapids people that were killed in that accident, because the other train plowed right thru that car. So Miss Remington and, I forget the name of that woman that was really her partner and worked with her. They were both killed. Frank Leonard was on that car, Harold Sears. I don’t know of anybody else. Interviewer: What was downtown like when you were growing up? Miss Perkins: It was like any little town, of course Monroe Street was a principal street, but there were all kind of shops, grocery shops now there was no grocery shops, it had bins out front, with things displayed on the street. There were all kinds of different shops. What I remember especially about early Grand Rapids downtown was the specialty shops. Mr. [John P.] Platte for example had an umbrella shop, didn’t sell anything but umbrellas. Beautiful umbrellas down to cheap umbrellas, you know. And then, there was one man that had nothing but beautiful material, Mr. Cole was his name, he had simply exquisite material because you made your own dresses. He had wonderful, wonderful silks and brocades and beautiful buttons and everything that went with them and he just loved his wares himself. He would hold it up, you know and enjoy looking at it just as much as you did. But the trouble was that he bought such expensive things and gradually people began buying their things readymade. And he failed and it was just tragic when he failed and all those beautiful, beautiful things had to go for next to nothing. Broke his heart. There were glove stores and there were all kinds of little shops that specialized in one thing. You could get very beautiful things. Interviewer: Yes, that’s interesting. What about entertainment, was there entertainment downtown? Miss Perkins: Of course, there was the theatre. Interviewer: Tell me about the theatres. Miss Perkins: I’m trying to think of the name of that theatre? Interviewer: Powers? Miss Perkins: Powers, yes, it is now a movie house, of course. Everybody went down there and you went in a hack, that was the way you, it was the most popular way of getting there. Of course if you lived near enough you walked. They brought some very good shows. The shows came from New York, the theatre. We had a lot of Shakespeare. We had excellent, excellent theatres. And then music was given in Hartman’s Hall as a rule. Interviewer: Where was Hartman’s Hall? �16 Miss Perkins: Well, it disappeared from the scene a long time ago. I’ve forgotten just where it was [west side of Lyon between Fouantain and Pearl streets]. I think it was, you know that garage, Shephard Garage I think it was in that neighborhood. Great big hall. Interviewer: What kind of effect do you think the automobile had had on the society? Miss Perkins: Oh it changed it completely. I think the big change in Grand Rapids came with automobile. It dispersed people. People began moving away from the center of the city. They began going away to live in country houses you know. It opened up the world but it also ruined the cities. Interviewer: If you could compare the ages of living which age of living would you say is preferable, the way we live today or the way you lived when you were growing up. Miss Perkins: Well, that is difficult to say, there is a great deal to be said for the world in which I grew up, a great deal is to be said for it. But also it is pretty wonderful now, I think. With all the opportunities that are open for everybody, you travel, everybody ought to be much broader minded then they were, and I think they are. But no better, worse, seems to me we didn’t have the wickedness or crime in my day. Interviewer: Grand Rapids was a safe city. Miss Perkins: Never even locked the front door when I lived on Washington Street, never thought of it. No, of the two ages I’m very glad that a large part of my life lay in the first stage. It was a lovely time, really. Interviewer: Good. Miss Perkins: But now it is more inspiring, it is more exciting, there are so many more opportunities; you can do anything you want really. And I suppose people, of course I was a child and too young to know, but I suppose people were very narrow-minded and thought along certain grooves and didn’t have as much opportunity to live a broader life. No excuse for people being narrow-minded now is there? Interviewer: Okay. INDEX A Aldrich Family · 8 Aldrich, Mrs. · 8 B Barry, Edmund D. · 5 Blake, Mr. · 15 Blodgett Family · 11 Blodgett Hospital · 11 �17 C O Campau, Mr. · 6, 7 Cole, Mr. · 16 O’Brien, Mr. · 13 D P F Pantlind Family · 8, 13, 14 Perkins, Cyrus Edwin (Father) · 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 13, 15 Perkins, Della Antoinette Foote (Mother) · 6, 7, 10, 11, 13, 14 Platte, John P. · 16 Fitzgerald, Edward · 5 Fountain Street School · 2 R Donnelly, Mr. · 5 G Gilbert, Mr. · 13 Grand River Bank · 6 H Harlan, Judge · 2 Hartman’s Hall · 16 J Remington, Grace · 15 S Sears, Harold · 15 St. Cecilia Society · 12, 14 V Vandenberg, Arthur · 7 Vassar College · 9 Jenks, Samuel · 4 W K Withey, Eleanor · 9 Women’s City Club · 11 Wonderly, Mrs. · 13, 14 Knappen, Judge Loyal E. · 5 L Ladies Literary Club · 11 Leonard, Frank · 15 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fb1c894f72540c2c9f1d11a1ca22dde1.mp3 845a43161b84e86e4cecc93d41e4717b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Rapids Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Heritage Hill (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Local histories Memoirs Michigan--History Oral histories (document genre) Description An account of the resource Taped and transcribed interviews conducted in the early 1970s primarily of the children and grandchildren of many of the founders of Grand Rapids, Michigan; many of whom were residents of the Heritage Hill neighborhood. Interviews were collected to develop a significant collection of oral resources that would supplement other primary and secondary local history materials. Initially funded as a private project, Grand Valley State College (now University) assumed responsibility for continuing the project until 1977. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Various Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/452">Grand Rapids oral history collection (RHC-23)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf; audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text; Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-23 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1971 - 1977 Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-23_11Perkins Title A name given to the resource Perkins, Mabel Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Perkins, Mabel Description An account of the resource Mabel Perkins was born on July 26, 1880. She received her B.A. degree from Vassar about 1900. Her mother is considered the founder of the Grand Rapids Art Museum. Miss Perkins was President of the Art Museum which remained her chief interest all her life. She was a noted collector of prints, and gave many of them during her lifetime to the Art Museum. As a girl she developed a strong interest in the works of Albrecht Durer. She died in 1974. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan--History Local histories Memoirs Oral histories (document genre) Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Heritage Hill (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Grand Valley State University Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf audio/mp3 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Grand Rapids oral history collection (RHC-23) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1971 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2dfa906588273768e52129cec00ee861.pdf 5d76a774a6ab3644b5ac4d2139fa8e46 PDF Text Text Speaking Out Western Michigan’s Civil Rights Histories Grand Valley State University Special Collections Interviewee: Robert Perra Interviewers: Collin Wojtowicz, Bradley Bordewyk and Megan Perra Supervising Faculty: Liberal Studies Department Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 12/7/2011 Runtime: 00:49:33 Biography and Description Robert Perra discusses his perception of the history of civil rights in western Michigan. Transcript Collin- What is your first and last name? Robert Perra- (laughter) Robert Perra Brad- Can you tell us about your family members? Robert Perra- Are you talking about family of origin or are you talking about uh current family? Brad- Both. Collin- I guess uh, yeah I guess just start with origin and move to current. Robert Perra- Well uh, my family of origin, my mother was a mountain girl from Arkansas. My father was a little town uh guy from Westerly, Rhode Island. Um, war broke out, my father decided to drop out of high school and become a pilot. He was taught how to fly in a box with a stick believe it or not. And uh, his first plane was a triwing, so not even a bi-wing they had three wings to hold a guy up in the air. So he became a pilot in the US Army Air Corps and met my mother in Texas she was working for some company there. He knew her for a week. He went off to the Pacific to fight the war after marrying her after knowing her for one to two weeks. She went to Rhode Island. They had several children of those that are current or those that survived birth would be my oldest brother Frank, my sister Santa immediately, my brother Jim, myself, and then my youngest sister Ovita. Grew up in a military family, my father traveled all over the world and we kind of tagged along. He remained in the military for some thirty years, always found it interesting he retired flying, well he was in charge of communications at the Pentagon but worked in the communications field but he was Page 1 �also a pilot. From the tri-plane that he started at the beginning of the second world war he was flying B-52’s and F-16’s when he ended his career at that point. Is that the kind of information you were looking for? Collin- Yeah, yeah I think so. Yeah. Robert Perra- So that’s at least some of my background. Did my living or growing up in different places in the United States; Omaha, Nebraska, Massachusetts, California, Washington D.C., Spain. Traveled Europe, North Africa, so just kind of never stayed in any one place more than uh 3 to 4 years maybe. Brad- I guess we can jump around then. What places have you lived in throughout your life? All the different places. Robert Perra- Oh my. Well the ones that I would call, ya know, my major places, the ones that I really have some real strong memories off at air force base. Omaha, Nebraska my father at the time was part of the strategic air command Torhone air force base Madrid, Spain uh was before that. Eureka, California, Westerly, Rhode Island, Washington D.C., did uh three maybe four tours of duty there. So I mean those are the places that I can really recall well, um we did an awful lot of traveling as kids. Collin- Okay, um so I guess going off of that um. Like in terms of the places that you have lived, what was society like in that point in time? Robert Perra- What was society like? Collin- Yeah, I guess. Robert Perra- Well it depends upon my age and it depended upon where I was. Uh, in Spain, I was born in 1952 uh so I’m coming up on my 60th year. Uh, we were in Spain we started there in ’58 so that tells you, ’59, so that tells you that early on I was six or seven at that time. Uh, Spain had uh just come out of a uh revolution, a civil war to be specific. Uh, that particular civil war was over in the 1930’s uh and of course in the 1950’s the aftermath was still there. We were one of seven American families uh that were uh going to Spain if you will to try to forge a relationship from the United States and Spain. Um, the United States had just finished getting out of a conflict called the second world war, it was in the newspapers you might have read about it. Um, that was before obviously I was born, but uh that war was a war against fascists and fascism. Uh, I don’t know if you know what fascism is but basically uh fascism is when the government has all the answers and if you don’t uh believe in what they believe is the answer uh then you are either marginalized or in the case of uh uh Germany, uh killed. And the programs that they used were called eugenics. I don’t know if you know anything about eugenics? But, uh eugenics was the betterment of society and that meant that the group in power got to say who was the better. Um, all of that is kind of Page 2 �important in the sense that in Spain they were a little asyncratic with the rest of the world and um the guy who won the war in Spain uh was fascist. So the winners who had just um beat fascism and destroyed fascism were now going into a fascist country to try to become friends. And um, if you knew anything about Franco he was a good buddy of both Mussolini and uh Adolph Hitler. Uh, in fact if it had been later in his civil war he would have uh gone into the war on the side of Germany. So that kind of makes it a schizophrenic country. So I grew up early on learning a lot about what you are not allowed to do in a fascist country. Uh, if you weren’t Roman Catholic you were uh, you better keep your mouth shut. If you were not um, if you didn’t have all the answers, you can uh, you can kind of kiss it goodbye. Uh, the first person I saw killed was when I was 10. Um, I was walking away from the University of Madrid uh and a guy in a trench coat, I mean this sounds so surrealistic, uh comes over and picks me up and carries me away. So obviously I was being watched; they knew who I was. Um and when you looked over the guys shoulder um there were some protesters at the university, university students about your age. And a group of people came in with uh submachine guns and just opened fire. So you didn’t want to tell anybody in power that they were wrong. It was an extremely uh authoritarian country, very safe I mean it was really simple you knew that nobody was gunna hurt you because the penalty for that was death. So don’t j-walk. And uh the Spanish at that time were uh, were terrified of them. Uh now, just til the uh, this is kind of jumping to today because they’re just, but it gives you an idea of the, the mentality of the people in that time of the, the world. Um, and it was wonderful by the way to be in Spain. I loved the people, I loved being there. But as a kid a lot of what I learned I had to put together into what the hell does this all mean because that’s not, that’s not the way that I I grew up in this country understanding. And uh, if you were been listening to the news over the last uh four or five weeks uh it has now come out under Franco that if you were a nun, or priest, or lawyer, or a majestrate, or anyone of power. If you happened to be a pregnant woman during that time period, uh if they decided that you weren’t really fit to raise the child, they were able to mark you. And when you had the child, they would take the child from you and tell you that the child died in uh child birth. And then they would sell the child to somebody who they thought was more fit. Ya know, a good Catholic family, somebody with money, uh people that looked like them because if you didn’t look like them you were no good at all. Uh, and then the state would rearrange the uh birth certificate so it looked like you were just given birth. This is what a fascist country does, ya know, they make it up. And uh, that went on until 1973, so you have to understand that is part of their eugenics process. Um, the United states eugenic pro, eugenics processes started to die out in 1973 as well. That is when we would sterilize drug addicts, prostitutes, criminals, anybody that we didn’t think should have kids; we just ripped their ovaries out or take off their testicles. Uh except in North Carolina and South Carolina, they continued to do that until 2003. But, you have to understand what it means when we talk about fascism. Because that is the background of what I grew up in, and why when Page 3 �you start asking me questions about the civil rights movement. All of a sudden what I am looking at, this is, this is through the eyes of a 10, 11, 12, uh 13 year old who is looking at a world that people not only are telling you what you are believing, telling you what you should believe, but will either kill you or rip your balls off, or rip out your ovaries, or imprison you. If you don’t agree with them. Uh, this is the time in which uh Amnesty International was founded because in Portugal two people just raised a glass of wine and said to freedom. Both were arrested and never seen again. So does that giving you a little bit of the social culture that I grew up in? In Spain and in the United States. Collin- Definitely. Robert Perra- So in the United States uh ya know, from Spain we came to Washington D.C. And Washington is really the city that I remember the most because of uh my father’s three tours of duty we always came back to there. But the world was the same, same structure. Um, famous people who agreed that this was a good thing: uh Woodrow Wilson, Oliver Wendel Holmes (the jurist), Alexander Graham Bell, Lindberg, President Bush’s, the last one’s grandmother was a eugenicist. Collin- Really? Robert Perra- Um, yeah. I mean these, well ya know, the last President Bush was a fascist. He uh, he just, he had all the answers. He was, but he was he really was an effectual it doesn’t matter, he was also lazy. He took more vacations than any other president ever since the country was founded. Uh so, but but I’m jumping too many decades. The decade we are talking about is the late 50’s and early 60’s at this point. And uh, that’s what was my foundation if you will. That’s, that’s the world that I looked at. And uh, grew up very much becoming a uh in that period of time a radical uh inclusivist. That every human being has the right to hear and say what they wish to say and as long as it doesn’t infringe on the uh respect and or honor of other human beings that’s their right to do so. That there are multiple answers and that uh, that’s, that’s not quite what the American dream was at that point and still isn’t. But, uh that’s what we were hopefully moving toward. So I was there for four years. Um, society. I bought a baby lamb, from there was a lamb, uh uh a herder, a sheep herder next to the high rise that we lived in. And I bought one of the lambs and I brought it home. I paid a loaf of bread, if you are getting an idea of how starved people were. My mother brought in a ward from the uh orphanage, who used to steal the mashed potatoes and stick them in his pockets because he was only allowed to, could only afford one meal a week. He was, he roomed with me when he stayed with us. Um, my mother and I being the youngest, she would go and buy food and bring it to the orphanage. And uh, I remember once she left the box alone and uh one of the children uh trying to get at a Page 4 �can of beans and basically tried to bash another kids head in. That’s the society I grew up in. What does your society? Collin- Not quite the same as that. Robert Perra- Hmmm. Collin- (Laughs). Grand Rapids, Michigan, I’ve lived for my entire life so. Brad- Yeah. Collin- Yeah. Robert Perra- But you can imagine as a yound child food, equality, um that became passionately important to me. And the amount of, when we came back to the United States, let’s see it would have been four years so ’59, ’62, ’63, um the prejudice in this country or the segregation in this country was unbelievable. Uh, just so that you get a sense of of what that means. Uh first of all, my daughter who is sitting with you wouldn’t be allowed to be in this room. In fact she wouldn’t have been allowed to go to your classes. That's one. Umm, I was walking down the street a little town called Marshall, Arkansas. People were still wearing sidearms at this point, this was the 1960s. I had a cousin who was shot because he was cheating at pool, coroner said he had it coming, so I guess he did. Shouldn't cheat at pool. But I remember walking down the street, I must have been, eleven? An old woman walked by just, you know, like any town. She dropped a can, I picked it up, I put it in her bag, said good day and walked on. I was later pulled over, told that I should not interact with blacks. Collin- Really? Robert- Blacks were not allowed to be at my high school. My uncle probably insulted me the most when I was in eight grade and didn't even know it. Uncle Leo. Thought he was being a nice guy, but it gives you an idea of what we call “comfortable couch prejudice.” Umm, I went to a Catholic church at that time and uh, that was an important part of my life. Uh, t was Blessed Sacrament in Alexandria, Virginia. And the old Monseigneur who was Irish, and Irish kind of people are questionable too, you know, uh, they were, they assimilated because they were white but they had a hard assimilation. Umm, but Quinn, Monseigneur Quinn was a heck of a guy. He always believed that if he could spend a dollar twice he outta. And there was this little Baptist church across the street from Blessed Sacrament. And he hired the Pastor there to be the janitor, uh, at the church which I/he thought was a great idea and as an adult I'm thinking “very clever.” Uh, you know, if you really believe in church kind of stuff you're kind of spending your money twice [Collin-right] you're taking money from your church, you're giving it to another guy who's gonna run another church I mean that's pretty clever. It's kind of uh, his own little pyramid scheme of sorts but, uh, I just thought it was very clever. And uh, in doing this, um, the guy was always nice to us you know the guy all he did was he cleaned the damn church and the school, you know, but he always had a nice thing to say and he was just a really nice guy. And so in the Roman Catholic tradition uh, at Christmas time they have the uh, a midnight service, Page 5 �you know they just kind of get together and light some candles, throw some incense, do some songs, that kind of thing and uh, midnight mass, and that's not a very Baptist kind of a thing. You're not gonna burn incense in the Baptist church across the street. So this guy and his wife would come over to the midnight mass at Blessed Sacrament. And my family would have uh, a meal, um, after midnight mass so that means everybody from church or anybody who wanted to, would come over to our house for uh, a breakfast. And uh, we just invite anybody. Well I invited him and his wife you know, why not? And he came over to the house for breakfast and, delightful time, great guy. My uncle, the great liberal, uh, about three days later pulled me off and to the side, he wanted to congratulate me and tell me how proud he was of me that I could invite a black man and his wife to my home for breakfast without asking my father. And he never had an idea in his head what kind of a bigoted statement that was, or how insulting it was, because that had never crossed my mind, it wouldn't, uh, you know, but in his mind, you know, it was so subtle, that that idea of bigotry, of of exclusivity, of pushing aside. And uh, what can I say, that's that's the society on this side of the Atlantic. If you were poor you obviously had done something wrong to piss off God and you were actually worthless thank you very much good morning. And I remember my father and family actually getting up more than one time, well, twice where we'd be in a restaurant and a black family would come in and be told to leave, we don't serve your kind here. And it didn't matter where we were in the dinner we would get up and leave, we'd just pay the bill and leave, even if we hadn't received any food yet. So, my wife went to a segregated school in Sanibul Island, Florida, I went to a segregated school in Alexandria, Virginia. There's the society on both sides of the Atlantic, now, what do you need to know about it? Brad- Um, well I guess you left off with school, what was school like for you? High School and College. Robert- Wow. Well high school, um, by this time I guess I was a, by this time I was pretty, pretty aggressive and pretty much a of an activist, um, I went to a Catholic school for the first two years. Bishop [Ierton](sp). Um, my grades were okay, but I wanted to take French, they told me they couldn't give me French um, because they didn't feel that I fit the profile to take that course, so I figured they don't need my father's money, I left. Again, profiling was something by this time that angered me and I was a real jerk, I had my ideas of what the world should be and when it didn't go my way I flipped people off and walked on, pretty much like I do today to be honest. Um, so not too too different. So I went to a public school, Hammond High School where I enjoyed that. The end of my junior year my father retired and I moved to Westerly Rode Island um, and at that point I went to Ward Senior High School. I had a really hard transition um, Hammond High School was a couple of thousand students, it was a large school, uh, it was all white as I said and the same held to true I think with Ward Senior High School. Of course I couldn't imagine a black person in Westerly at the time, there may have been one or two I don't know. Uh, but uh, it was, I think my entire graduating class was under a hundred and so it was a real, real shock to move from a school that was inclusive to one that was very, very exclusive. Uh, very Italian and very Catholic. Um, joined the football team, uh at the first game we were forced to say the Lord's prayer so I wasn't part of the football team anymore. There was a Jewish kid on the team, they didn't give a rip that he didn't uh, wasn't Christian, they were gonna Page 6 �force him so I wasn't gonna be uh, associated with that. So the school immediately put me into counseling and told me my problem was that my father was a football player and that I couldn't live up to it. And I thought, well, this is an interesting psychologist. Asked my father if he had ever played football and he said no, he went to war. But, the psychologist had the answer for me. And uh, I finished uh, that year um, I was, the Vietnam War was going on at this time, that was a major issue. The uh, draft was going on. Uh, I had been eighteen so I applied for my conscientious objector status uh, that particular draft board as far as I know it never given anybody a CO. And uh, I think that was part of my, oppositional disorder that I had at that point in my life, that I still have. Um, and my father uh, I remember coming to the uh, the hearing, cuz you had to prove that that you didn't believe in war to be able to be giving a conscientious objector status, because Catholics believe in killing and so, if you're Catholic of course you're going to be a military you know, and uh, if you're Protestant they know you believe in killing, so, didn't matter you know? Uh, Quakers, there were a few Quakers in Rode Island they were given status but usually not very often, and not in Westerly. But my father came and gave testimony for me and I was given uh conscientious status conscientious objector status. I worked on campaigns I was politically very active, uh, at that time a democrat. Um, my uncle was the sergeant at arms of the United States senate, uh Hubert Humphrey was family friends, uh, with him and had met him. So you kind of get a sense that political life was something that that was not something that uh, feared us, or feared me at least. And when I graduated I uh, joined the Franciscan Order and I started being a postulate in the monastery or to be more accurate a friary and went to Saint Thomas More Scholastica to Catholic university and so that started my college education. Um, you have to jump years ahead after that I uh, decided that the monastery wasn't for me, moved back to Rode Island, met my wife she was my boss, I was working at a camp for the retarded, uh, children. Um, got married, took off to uh, Albertly, Minnesota. During all this time I had sang as a musician on a stage, I did church music , I had, you know, did whatever I wanted actually I was a cook and a chauffeur for a while to a priest, I mean, we paid the bills. And uh, Tom Driscoll was a great guy, that's the priest. Um, then a guy by the name of Curtis, uh, Father Curtis, uh, brought us to Albertly Minnesota, took a job there and decided that I really needed to get uh, more education. So, I was being a church musician and liturgist during a time immediately following uh, something called Vatican two, which was a, a change in the Roman tradition to become inclusive instead of everybody going to hell, maybe everybody has something to offer, and uh, so the Vatican two changed the liturgy from Latin to English or the vernacular. And while I was in the church in Albertly during the summers I drove to Collegeville, Minnesota about 250 miles north and I got a uh master's degree and bachelor's degree from Saint John's University in Collegeville in pastoral arts and liturgy. There's my college background at that point. From there I was hired by the Diocese of Kalamazoo. Uh, new Diocese, just founded and they needed somebody to run the office of Christian Worship so I came to Kalamazoo, Michigan. Didn't like the job, liked the place. Uh, went back to school, um, studied um, counseling at Western Michigan University, uh, still liked working with the down and out so uh, was the clinical director at a methadone maintenance clinic, worked with addicts and street people, um, got my doctorate in Clinical Psychology. Needed to do an internship so my wife and I moved to London, England and did my doctoral internship with the National Health Service of Great Britain. '86 came back worked for Blue Cross Blue Shield for a while, decided that they really weren't interested in people, left them real fast, uh, worked for the Page 7 �substance abuse counsel in St. Joseph county, and then uh, opened twenty years ago my own practice and have been in Sturgis ever since as a Clinical Psychologist. And for the last twenty years have uh, taught part time, Addictionology and Addictions at Western Michigan University. So, I don't know how you split, give me your education out from your life, but there it is, pull it out. Collin- Several answers have been questioned [questions have been answered] in one so we're kind of moving around. Robert- I'm sorry. Collin- Huh, no it's fine it it actually works out really well. Brad- Yeah I was gonna say we're down to like three or four left. Collin- Okay, um, okay, so, how about, you wanna do this one? Robert- How bout those Mets? Collin- Yea Brad- Did we already do that one? Collin- We might of yea. Collin: How was the way that you view yourself and your identity changed as you’ve grown older, like how have you identified yourself like 20 years ago compared to today? Robert Perra: I’m more sad and less angry. I think that one of the, one of the things about being a radical inclusivist and trying to be an activist is coming to an understanding of when a inclusivity and tolerance has a tendency to fail, um things that a would irate, make me irate as a child and young man, uh everybody just seems to think that’s how it is today, and so they don’t seem to have very much passion. When I was 15, as an example, this would have been 1987 [1967] when I was 15 um a guy who that you would probably only know as the name of a street uh was alive, his last name was king, and most people don’t really know what his message was, they thought it was a black thing, and it really wasn’t, it was a people thing, he believed very strongly that people should be viewed by their integrity and their creditability not by artificial factors, blacks were put aside but not only blacks, my goodness we throw people that were from Japan and descendents we had them in concentration camps we marginalize Jews, anybody who was not uh part of the main stream, you know, it’s a little like being in Grand Rapids and that phrase if you’re not Dutch you’re not much. Well add that little bit larger, because that phrase is that type of exclusive and its if you’re not us your nothing, and that’s what he was fighting against. When he was assassinated, first of all what he was working on when he was assassinated was a few months, what came to fruition came a few months later, but when he was assassinated a lot of cities went up in smoke. Um this would have been in 87 [68] and this is much different than the Detroit riots of 86 [67] that was a different powered kick that was um when a cop and 4 or 5 police officers were sanctioned to go beat up the blacks and that riot started because they were holding a funeral for a young man who was killed in Vietnam and the police decided to break it up and took the mother and the father of the young solider into Page 8 �custody and beat up his brother and the black community there so that was a very black thing but in in this when when Washington DC blew up uh congress ordered that no food could be sold in Washington DC because they were going to starve the uh um rioters out and uh that infuriated me uh as a 15 year old who didn’t even have a drivers license it really pissed me off so uh I ran down to the blessed sacrament of the church uh grabbed the white van we had a food pantry I filled the van along with two other people full of baby food, dippers, uh formula and uh choose to come into Washington DC through Rosslyn, if you had money you’re always going to be safe so if you go in through Georgetown you knew darn well the soldiers are going to be real careful because you’re probably either a senators son, a lawyers son, or a doctors son or somebody that’s important. If you come in across the bridge it’s too close to the White House you’re going to get shot. Now a lot of people did get shot bringing food in um so I came in through Georgetown then I broke through the barricades there to take food downtown uh in Washington I remember driving by the uh um White House of course there were machine gun nests all over the White House uh same over congress I mean we are talking about 50 calibers uh they’d rip you apart and uh uh national guard were out of course I’ve never driven before so I was stopping at stop lights as buildings were blowing up but that’s a different story that’s kind of just insanity but I was incents uh got the food took it too St. Stephens in the incarnation which was an Episcopal church downtown um unloaded it um got the truck a little bit further was pulled over and clabbered by a couple of police officers and thrown in jail uh the Swiss Embassy got me out because I was uh under the armband of the American Red Cross but by that time the American Red Cross had uh disavowed us feeding children they were of course apart of congress and congress was still wanting us to starve out the city (cough) international red cross they changed our armbands so it had something weird on it pulled me out of jail, got two more runs then they found out I was only 15 so I got shipped back to Alexandra where my father picked me up. Um but there’s passion, today 1 out of 6 children go hungry out of the United States and nobody gives a flying shit. That’s a difference, the initiative for the poor people’s campaign which was what king was working on when he was in Atlanta getting ready for it. I went downtown I, I brought people it I was building shanties on the uh, in, in the city we were building temporary housing for poor people, uh the campaign of course was attempting to have legislation uh past an anti poverty legislation, an anti poverty legislation occurred uh you know would occur what that basically was saying not that poor people would be given money but that every American would have the right as any other American to compete on their credibility, their value, and their quality and that just because you were born poor your shouldn’t remain poor, that’s in essence what that entire group legislation meant and uh it was flawed and I mean I kept building the houses uh I was very much an activist and fighting for that. I remember Abernathy coming by uh I was just putting some nail in, told you I was always oppositional his aid looked at him and said they needed to get back to the Georgetown which is a 4 star hotel, pissed me off, he awet to be down in the shanties, I was so I yelled out to him and said “oh Rev. Abernathy, this one’s for you, ready for you to move in.” Got some real filthy looks, of course I’m just a white kid what the hell do I know. But there’s injustice everywhere in that sense and he went back to his 4 star hotel. The Legislation didn’t pass, and what people don’t recognize or understand and and I guess I was lucky because uh I remember my uncle talking about it I remember Hubert Humphrey talking about it, I remember my father talking about it, it basically said that in the law and under the law all people are treated equally as much as humanly Page 9 �possible because back then as even a lot today white privilege is what counts or right now we don’t have white privilege anymore its green privilege and uh that’s the direction that it’s been going well it failed and I’ve still worked for justice as far as I can but people don’t seem to have the passion. In the 1990s I had a little bit of hope uh the SNL crisis uh that’s when some bankers in the savings and loan um fraudulently ripped off a good number of Americans and uh the attorney general went after them um put a quit good number of them in jail. The paper trail when you do banking is always clear so I mean when you screw up in the banking, if they are interested they can put you in jail. Its its its very clear um now we are in 2009 we have another banking crisis its 70 to 700 times worse than the SNL there were three FBI warnings to congress. Bush didn’t give a crap, so guess what you know how many people have been legislated against or I mean uh uh taken to court for that action under Mr. Obama’s rule? Zero. It’s ok under Bush it would have been zero too. Um they screwed up how many millions of people, made them homeless and the attorney general of the United States, the President of the United States and the Legislator of the United States and the judiciaries of the United States don’t care. That makes me sad, because you see the paper trail is there. A first year law student can follow it you don’t have to be a lawyer and that’s the end result of the whole issue of the poor people’s campaign and the poverty, anti poverty legislation that’s what it was trying to attend to but today in this country that’s why you get the match on Wall Street at the moment. And they call 99 1 percent of the people have the green and there above the law. And according to the President well as far as we can see his eyes are green and his attorney general has green eyes too and so do all the republican candidates so this isn’t uh Democratic bashing exercise. So how have I changed? I guess I’ve changed by becoming instead of passionate and angry, sad and cynical, I think I liked myself better when I was angry and passionate. Don’t know if that really answers your question. Collin: Nope yeah mhm. We are very organized Robert Perra: I’m sorry I must be boring the crap outta you. Bradley: How does living in West Michigan, How does is it different then the other places you’ve lived? Robert Perra: Well when we moved to Kalamazoo and decided to have children there were two things I wanted for them that I didn’t have, one was I wanted them to have stability, I have very in fact I have no childhood friends, I am a nomad um I have no roots, um I have family I don’t see very often, uh we were made hyper independent and um not very interdependent on the society and what I wanted for my children was to have roots to say I’m from here you know, uh I have kids that I went to school with, I know who I went to my elementary school with my high school my college. Um I wanted people, I wanted them to have a sense of lifelong understanding so I made a choice to live in Western Michigan because number one it was small It was quiet, and the Alexandr, uh Richland and Kalamazoo area, uh It was relatively safe. Um when I was in high school in uh uh Alexandria, Virginia um there were some interactions between blacks and whites. uh uh whenever Hammond High School or TC Williams um played George W, George Washington uh there was always a riot afterwards in the stands, blacks and whites would be beating the shit out of each other, didn’t matter who won. And so you would get things in the newspaper uh “TC Williams won on field GW won in the stands.” I mean it was that Page 10 �that’s craziness, people were shot fairly regularly in Washington DC. And it never even reached the news paper. uh Washington DC growing up was one of the most corrupt cities in the world had to many police officers and to many police forces and none of them did anything because not only did you have the FBI but then you have the secret service and then you had a military service for each branch of the government and then you have Washington DC cut in four and each of the four had their own police department now half of Washington is from Virginia so the Virginia state police would come into one half and now the other half is from Maryland and so the Maryland state police would come in, now we also had the executive police because the executive police were responsible for the diplomats and of course they have authority there and then of course the white house has its own staff so we have there protection. And the judiciary. Well you have so much you have none. And so when I decided to come here I wanted to be in a place where I was somewhat comfortable that my children would wake up one morning and still be alive. Now that sounds very really strange, but that’s why I grew up and raised my children in Michigan because drive by shootings although they happen they don’t happen often. And uh the wagon train with the Indians doing the drive by shootings uh uh with arrows that hadn’t happened sense the 1880s so it seems safe. Now once my children all grow up and leave, I’m not certain where my wife and I will uh move too. I’ve always liked North Africa and London was great fun and we like Florida and but we stayed in this part of the world for the safety of our children. Is that what you really wanted? Bradley: yeah, that kinda answers the last one too. Collin: mhmm, I think, I think that’s it I believe that concludes the interview Bradley: yeah Robert: Now did you get anything that you can use out of this? Collin: yes we did. Robert Perra: Good! END OF INTERVIEW Page 11 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4366b1146376d5f6535fe8b073446aff.mp3 4ad6d35e22cbb5dbfa94840219bcec08 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Civil rights--Michigan--History Personal narratives Oral histories African Americans--Personal narratives Gays--Personal narratives Lesbians--Personal narratives Bisexual people--Personal narratives Transgender people--Personal narratives Veterans--Personal narratives Women--Personal narratives People with disabilities--Personal narratives Muslims--United States--Personal narratives Hispanic Americans--Personal narratives Homophobia Discrimination Islamophobia Stereotypes (Social psychology)--Upper Penninsula (Mich.) Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history recordings documenting the history of civil rights and social justice advocacy in Western Michigan. The collection was created by faculty and students as a project of the LIB 201 (formerly US 201): "Diversity in the U.S." course from 2011-2012. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Brooks College of Interdisciplinary Studies Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral History Project (GV248-01) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-05-02 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV248-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1930-2011 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV248-01_Perra_Robert Title A name given to the resource Robert Perra audio interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Perra, Robert Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Wojtowicz, Collin Bordewyk, Bradley Perra, Megan Description An account of the resource Robert Perra discusses his perception of the history of civil rights in western Michigan. Subject The topic of the resource Civil rights--Michigan--History Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Relation A related resource Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-12-07 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3950c12c265164f291dc9665b5e7fc00.mp4 0fa15556a009223fb71ee38b219e3362 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f5bc560401d038498e43d4ce00ab195b.pdf 1433b288ec4264e3ab9d4103bc4be27a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of Interviewee: Robert Perrin Name of War: World War II Length of Interview: (00:38:26) (00:20) Background Information • Robert was born on September 11, 1923 in Grand Rapids, Michigan • He grew up in Grand Rapids and his father worked on refinishing autos • Robert did not do well in school and dropped out when he was 16 to work in tool and dye • Robert was drafted into the Army a few years after he was done with school and classified as “semi-skilled” (5:55) The Army 1943 • Robert took a train to Camp McCoy in Wisconsin for basic training • The camp was in the middle of the woods and there were tons of pine trees • There were permanent barracks and they had to march all the time in the freezing weather; it was terrible • The men got up every day at 5:30 am and started with calisthenics, and then a 2.5 mile hike (11:30) Camp Ellis, Illinois • After basic training Robert was sent to Camp Ellis in the Spring of 1943 and began working with the Military Police • He worked on guard duty and helped with the flooding of the Illinois River • During the flood he guarded the gas station, which was a terminal point for a radio car and they also spent time checking the levies flood breaks (13:10) Military Police • Robert had been sent to Fort Custer to work with the Military Police and be an escort guard • They picked up POWs at a point on the East Coast and brought them to the prison camps around the country • They never had any incidents with the POWs and they actually got along well with the Germans, even though they did not speak any English �• Robert eventually volunteered to work in the infantry because he did not like working in the Military Police (16:10) Air Force • Robert was then sent to Camp Gruber in Oklahoma where he became part of the 42nd Rainbow Division • This training was much more difficult, but he was eventually transferred out of the Air Force and working in the Military Police again • Robert was sent to Arkansas for training and then to Marshall Field in Louisiana • The barracks in Louisiana were new and very large; it was like paradise • Robert was once again transferred to an Air Force base in Colorado where he became an instructor teaching men how to repair radios during their training in the Military Police • Robert was discharged on November 26, 1945 (22:40) End of Service • Robert took a train to Chicago and then another to Michigan; it was a very long ride with many stops on the way • He arrived home on Thanksgiving Day • Robert had gotten married in 1943 and his wife had traveled with him a bit while he was in the service • He began working again in tool and dye (28:45) Grand Rapids Home for Veterans • Robert was separated from his wife in 1950 and later remarried • They thought Michigan was too cold and moved to Florida • Robert lived with his wife in Florida for about 20 years, but then his wife began suffering from Alzheimer’s • His children came from Michigan to help him pack and move and Robert and his wife both began living in the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans • His wife recently passed away and they had been married for 55 years • Robert has 16 grandchildren and enjoys where he is staying, but sometimes thinks it feels like a barracks � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PerrinR Title A name given to the resource Perrin, Robert B. (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Perrin, Robert B. Description An account of the resource Robert Perrin was born on September 11, 1923 in Grand Rapids, Michigan and drafted into the Army in 1943. He went to Camp McCoy in Wisconsin for basic training, which he thought was terrible. Robert then began training for the Military Police and was later stationed in Louisiana to help with flooding. Robert was transferred into the Army Air Force and then became part of the 42nd Rainbow Division. Near the end of his service Robert was instructing the Military Police how to repair radios in Colorado. Robert was discharged on November 26, 1945 and moved back to Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-11-24 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1997ddf7e61d99fc9a9a23d0acfa53a7.mp4 3411ec93095041b84dd89ea5ef3fc624 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2ba07efbeca202b562133c4726d3a0b9.pdf cf5a2499255ea60745588c3df58f5b9f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Lyle Perschke (1:21:23) (00:15) Background Information • • • • Lyle was born in Wisconsin in 1922 His father worked for the American Seating Company and was transferred to Grand Rapids in 1925 He graduated from Union High School and had been a captain in the ROTC and a drum major in band After graduation Lyle worked for the American Seating Company (1:20) Navy Enlistment • • • • • Lyle did not want to join the Army because of the similar training he experienced in the ROTC Lyle went to Great Lakes boot camp in Chicago The men got their physicals and were then assigned to a battalion Everyone was in a much better condition after boot camp They then reported to San Francisco where he became bugler in the Navy because he had played the trumpet in high school (6:20) Pacific Islands • Lyle traveled to many different islands in the Pacific on USS Honolulu • He was only twenty years and everything was very new to him and interesting • Their ship was being attacked by torpedoes • They sunk a cruiser, several airplanes, and Lyle and other men received many battle stars • Their ship had been attacked by torpedoes and flooded with water (10:05) Battle on the Ship • The captain was very calm and cool • The Japanese started attacking from ten miles away • It was a scary experience and they had to go back to the port afterwards to reload and repair the ship (18:01) California �• While in California Lyle got punched in the face at a bar; he lost four teeth and could no longer serve as the bugler • He then became third class quartermaster • He took care of the ship log while they were traveling and worked with navigation charts • Eventually he made second class quartermaster (23:00) Home for Christmas • After being transferred Lyle was able to take some time off to visit his family • Lyle had a lot of fun when he came home to visit • His parents helped him pay to get his four teeth replaced • Then they took the USS Colbert to Oregon and then Seattle (26:35) Storms on the Ship • Lyle spent a lot of time on the upper part of the ship because he could keep from getting sick up there • There was less action on the bottom of the ship, but at the top you can see everything that is going on down below (27:00) The USS Colbert • On this ship they brought back Japanese prisoners to the US and Okinawa (28:40) Manchuria • On the way to Manchuria they hit 4-5 floating mines • They stopped at Korea to look at the ship damage • When they got to Manchuria they picked up POWs from the prison camps • There were some Russians there that had taken over some near town and they were heavily armed • The war was over, but there were floating mines everywhere that you could spot on the radar • The ship hit a mine and it blew up their whole engine room (35:50) The Train Ride Home • Everyone on the ride was very happy, drinking, and playing instruments • Lyle was discharged on December 16th, 1945 �• Lyle then went back to working for the American Seeding Company • He got married and had a son • Lyle retired after working for 47 years • He enjoys driving antique trucks in parades and restoring old cars (39:40) Prisoners in Manchuria • They prisoners were on the death march • The prisoners had been stabbed by Japanese commanders and they were fed horrible food • The caught escapees were shot in front of all the other prisoners • The Japanese treated US prisoners very poorly • Lyle never actually traveled to Japan, just many nearby islands • They sailed through the Sea of Japan (43:45) The Atomic Bombs • Lyle could not believe it when the bombs were dropped • He kept many newspaper clippings from the war • He always had thought that he would be sent to Japan for an invasion • They thought it would be terrible and with many losses (46:15) The Effect of the War • He became very jumpy and nervous after the war experience • He got better after a year, but began drinking too much until his wife made him stop • Lyle eventually adjusted to civilian life • The service required him to grow up in a big hurry; he had been very immature • Lyle believes that every boy and girl should spend a year or two in the service after graduation (50:02) The Navy • ROTC training was similar to that of the Army • Lyle did not want to tramp through mud and forests and would rather die at sea if it was to happen during his time in the service �  • Lyle had more experience than all the other new men in training • When Lyle first enlisted he only weighed 112 pounds ��Photo U' • • " ..... f 80-G-_-94 6 's lIonolulu lind rway with temporary fal c bow. August 1943 ��Photo # 80- J-_5944 ~ ··L ""'" U. . HOJ1( lulu rrive: at Tulaai aft er heine torpe 0 d in the BULLIe or Kolo I �k · . .. �H· . . . .. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PerschkeL Title A name given to the resource Perschke, Lyle (Interview outline, video, and papers), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Perschke, Lyle Description An account of the resource Lyle Perschke was born in Wisconsin in 1922 and moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1925 when his father's job was transferred. Lyle played the trumpet and drums in high school and so he became a bugler when he joined the Navy. During a fight he got his four front teeth knocked out and was no longer to serve in the position of bugler. He became second class quartermaster on his ship. Lyle traveled to many different islands throughout the Pacific, as well as Korea and Manchuria, serving first on the USS Honolulu and later on the USS Colbert. Lyle has many experiences where his ship was attacked by Japanese kamikazes and also problems with running into floating mines in the ocean. Photographs of the USS Honolulu and a clipping are appended to this interview outline. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-10-11 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/939dec2fb99869eada4272b6183cc2be.pdf 6525dbd4d84f5672e15e83a329ae20ec PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project Frank Persico World War II 46 minutes 16 seconds (00:00:24) Early Life -Born and raised in Roxbury, Boston, Massachusetts -Full, legal name is Innocent Frank Persico -Called Innocent until high school -Went by Frank from then on -Had three brothers and one sister -Parents were Italian immigrants -Went to public schools growing up -He was the only child in the family, besides his sister, to get a college education -Dreamed of becoming a baseball player when he grew up -Played baseball in high school and was the captain of the team -Tried out for the Boston Braves, but got rejected -Played as the catcher -Attended Hyde Park High School -It was a cooperative-industrial high school that prepared students for trade work -For one week he went to regular classes and one week he did shop work -Did electrical work for a Milwaukee based company that had a shop in Hyde Park -When he graduated he already had a job -Graduated from high school and worked for a year before joining the military (00:05:03) Start of the War & Getting Drafted -Attempted to enlist in the Marines -Rejected due to eyesight -Out of high school when Pearl Harbor happened -At the movies on December 7, 1941 -Came out of the theatre and saw the news boys selling papers about the attack -The draft was in effect for men twenty years old, or older -Draft had been in effect since 1940 -All the young men felt the need to serve their country -Got a draftee number when he registered for the draft -Learned that volunteers were treated with more respect -He had tried to enlist, but was drafted into the Army anyway -The draft board needed to fill their quotas which led to his getting drafted (00:09:02) Basic Training -Excited for basic training -He had only been sixty miles from home before basic training -Went to Fort Devens, Massachusetts for processing and induction -Transported there by cattle car �-Got to the base at 2AM -Assigned to a bunk and only got two hours of sleep -Woke up to a drill sergeant blowing a whistle and picking recruits for kitchen patrol -Learned to be obedient and listen to orders -Issued uniforms by soldiers that had been there for only two days -Got poorly fitting uniforms -Officer made sure you got the right size shoes though -Enjoyed basic training -Young and full of energy -Took basic training in Florida -Went on marches and learned to take orders -Did field training -Shooting rifles -Crawled under barbed wire and they set off fake gas -Taught you to react fast and take combat seriously (00:15:26) Mechanic Training -Took three tests at the end of basic training -Army was trying to figure out what your skills were -He scored highest as a mechanic -Sent to Lincoln, Nebraska for Aircraft Mechanic School -Most likely Lincoln Army Airfield -Did field training in the woods -Army Air Force put an old plane in the woods -Lived in tents and had to work on the plane with minimal resources -His tent was placed in poison oak -Woke up covered in hives -Learned all about aircraft -He excelled in engines and got sent to Chanute Air Field, Illinois for Engine School -Broke down and repaired engines (00:18:07) Assignment to 461st Bombardment Group -Sent to Salt Lake City, Utah -Stayed there for five days -Got assigned to the 461st Bombardment Group -Sent to Wendover Field, Utah -In the middle of the salt flats -Met the noncommissioned officers (corporals and sergeants) he would work with -Moved to Hammer Field in Fresno, California -Got assigned to a squadron, a ground crew, and a bomber -Learned how to work on bombers as a crew -Four mechanics to a bomber -Fourteen planes in the squadron -Made sure that the bombers were ready to go on missions -His job was to inspect the bomber and make sure it was fit for flight -Spent most of his time as an inspector (00:23:52) Deployment to the European Theatre �-Waiting for orders to go overseas -Bomber crews needed to have enough training before deploying -Bombers flew over to Europe in February 1944 -Ground crews went across the country and boarded a Liberty Ship in Newport News, Virginia -Sailed across with a convoy -It took thirty four days to reach Italy -He didn't get seasick -Advised to lie down in your bunk, eat crackers, and drink tea -He listened to the advice and didn't get seasick -The men that didn't listen got violently ill -Had to use hoses to wash away the vomit -If the weather was good he went up on deck (00:28:02 ) Stationed in Italy -Saw a few Italian laborers working around the airfield -Employed the civilians so they could have some money -They cleaned and helped at the mess hall -Once they got established they were able to go into town -Met the Italians, visited shops, and saw what life was like for the Italians -Went to the wineries and got jugs of wine -Remembers planes crashing upon landing -Had an accident where one man was working on a hydraulic system -The line broke and the battery ignited the fluid starting a massive fire -Five planes were destroyed -Watched the planes explode from a ditch -Saw an engine fly through the air -No one got hurt, so it all felt like a movie -Salvaged parts if they could -Got very little information about the war's progress -Only news came from the Stars & Stripes -Knew nothing about the war in the Pacific Theatre -Had two brothers serving in the Pacific -Knew that their bombers were flying missions to Romania -Bombing the oil fields to deprive the Germans of fuel -At the end of the war the Germans had no gas and a paralyzed military -Able to bomb planes that were stuck on the ground -English bombers flew missions alongside American bombers (00:33:29) End of the War, End of Service, & Coming Home Pt. 1 -Remaining German forces in Italy surrendered on May 5, 1945 -On May 8, 1945 the remaining German forces surrendered -On May 7, 1945 he was moved south to Torretto Airfield -Assigned to a bomber crew returning to the United States -Boarded their bomber and flew out of Italy -An engine went out and they were forced to land in Sicily -Waited seven days for a new engine -From Sicily flew to Marrakech, Morocco then to Senegal then to Ascension Island �-From Ascension Island to Natal, Brazil then up to Hunter Field, Georgia -Got a leave then reported to Drew Field, Florida -Preparing to move to the Pacific Theatre for the invasion of Japan -On August 6, 1945 the atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima -On August 15, 1945 Japan surrendered -Units started to break down and men started going home (00:36:45) Contact with Home during the War -He wasn't homesick during the war -Used V-Mail (Victory Mail) to communicate with home -Form of mail that relied on microfilm for quick and easy transport -Wrote to his parents and a friend in the Navy -Didn't write much though -Some men wrote a lot -Especially the married men -He wrote to his brothers fighting in the Pacific Theatre (00:37:43) End of the War, End of Service, & Coming Home Pt. 2 -Wasn't worried about going to Japan -Just didn't want to do it -Learned later about how bad the invasion could've been -After the war ended he went to Mass and thanked God for getting him through the war alive -Had to wait a week to hear when he was going home -Didn't do anything but sleep, eat, and sit in his bunk waiting to go home -Reported to the supply room and got a new uniform when it was time to go home -Allowed to sign up for benefits through the Red Cross if you were injured during the war -Given $25, a final paycheck, and told to get off the base -Had to wait until the next morning for a train back to Boston -Tried to sleep in an empty barracks on base -Got kicked out because he was now a civilian -Got a hotel room for the night -Took a train back to Boston -Got off at the station and called home to tell his parents he was coming home (00:43:00) Life after the War -Went back to his old job -Government made sure that servicemen had their old job waiting for them -Worked as a machinist -Worked their for three weeks and decided he wanted to get out -Went to work for the Metropolitan District Commission -Started going to college at night -Worked his way up to being an engineer over fifteen years -Got his certificate as a registered professional engineer -Did architectural work and retired from that -Never hated a day of work (00:45:21) Reflections on Service -Doesn't feel that being in the service had much of an impact on his life -Feels that it was just another part of his life �-Does believe that it helped to be more considerate and wordly � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_PersicoI1799V Title A name given to the resource Persico, Innocent Frank (Interview outline), 2005 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-10-22 Description An account of the resource Frank Persico was born and raised in Boston, Massachusetts. He graduated from high school and then Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. He registered for the draft and eventually got drafted and assigned to the Army Air Corps. He was processed at Fort Devens, Massachusetts then received basic training in Florida. He went to Lincoln Army Air Field, Nebraska for Aircraft Mechanic School then to Chanute Army Air Field, Illinois for Engine School. He was assigned to the 461st Bombardment Group in Salt Lake City, Utah and joined the unit at Wendover Field, Utah. He trained with them at Hammer Field, California and deployed to the European Theatre in February 1944. He was stationed in Italy for the duration of the war, and on May 7, 1945 he returned to the United States. He was stationed at Drew Field, Florida until Japan surrendered in August 1945. He was discharged after the war and returned to Boston. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Persico, Innocent Frank Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Staples, Jessica (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air ForcesOral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/de4e5a12a4d85f8d06c4418d51ff81c1.m4v fb6764be4621326a3ee90d2d631f827d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b274c5ada15387279b9473df22d31010.pdf b861331bd0f221859ee88dd5fcbcab1e PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW JAMES C. PERSO Born: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Resides: Interviewed by: Richard Massa, GVSU Veterans History Project Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, March 1, 2014 Interviewer: Today is December 3rd, 2009 and we are at Lake Michigan College in Benton Harbor, Michigan. Our interviewee in Jim Perso, and Jim was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Our camera operator today is Hank Richmond, and the interviewer is Richard Massa. We are performing this interview as part of the Veterans History Project, being conducted by Grand Valley State University in Allendale, Michigan. Jim, can you tell us a little of your early background, where born and grew up. I was born in Milwaukee and we moved to Minneapolis on my sisters second birthday, so I‟ll tell you precisely, it was August 2nd, 1945. My first vivid recollection of Minneapolis was riding with my dad in downtown and everybody was blowing their horns. I said, “Daddy, why are people blowing their horns?” He says, “The war is over”, and I said, “Well, blow your horn”. 1:04 Tap, and I said, “Blow it hard”, and he said, “I don‟t think my battery has enough juice in it”. I didn‟t know about--recapping a tire was a big deal and nobody had two batteries, you know. We never replaced a battery during the war. Later on somebody had arranged for my dad and I to ride in the cab of a diesel locomotive from St. Paul to Minneapolis and the engineer said to me, “Pull the horn”, and I said, “Does your battery have enough juice in it?” He gave me this funny look and my dad explained it and they laughed hysterically for about seven intersections between 1 �St. Paul and Minneapolis. My next door neighbor came back from the 2nd WW and he became a regimental commander 409th Infantry Regiment, 130th [103rd?] Infantry Division, part of the Minnesota reserve. 2:06 His name was Earl Nelson, Colonel, Infantry, United States Army Reserve, and he wore a Combat Infantrymen‟s Badge, Silver Star, Bronze Star, and he was one of the adults that was a role model for me growing up. We played war games around, the kids played war games and I set up this ambush this one time, and I knew that I was right, and I got a lot of argument from the folks that I thought I‟d killed, so I went to the Colonel as a referee and I told him what I did, and he said, “Know, you were right”. He invited me to read his library and he let me read an abbreviated version of Vom Krieg. 3:00 Colonel Von Clausewitz wrote Vom Krieg, but then he wrote an abbreviated version for the Crown Prince of Russia. Hermann Goering was so impressed with that little book that he had every Luftwaffe officer read it. The preface of this was really interesting, because it‟s got Hermann Goering writing in there. This was a translation, but I did read it, and I enjoyed it. Interviewer: How old were you when you already had this interest in military activities? I guess I reading Clausewitz when I was ten, or twelve. I knew lots of folks that were veterans of the 2nd WW and I thought they were patriots and were being emulated and I was always interested in the military. Interviewer: Were there any close family member who had been in the military? 4:00 No—well, my dad had a deferment in the 2nd WW, so he did not serve in the 2nd WW. I had one uncle that was in Europe and I think he was the only one who served in active 2 �duty in the 2nd WW. But, there was another neighbor across the street and he had two interesting scars on his shoulder from a MG-42 that he picked up in Germany. He was an infantry officer, I think, or artillery, but he was forward and zipped while he was sitting in a Jeep, when he picked up two rounds. Which—I looked at that and thought it was a very interesting scar. There were a lot of people I knew that were officers, and I was really interest. My parents would never have picked a career in the military for me. 5:02 that‟s what I wanted to do and Colonel Nelson said, “Well, go in the Navy. They always have food to eat and a place to sleep”, and somehow that sort of appealed to me and so, I did end up going in the navy in sort of a roundabout way. I wanted to get an appointment to the Naval Academy, but my father, being a good Republican--Hubert Humphrey got me a third alternate in the primary. I took it, but I didn‟t get there, but he wanted to get me into the Merchant Marine Academy and I wanted no part of that, but I did—my high school advisor, or councilor, got me an interview with the navy ROTC program. Colonel Nelson wrote me a letter of recommendation and so on, and I got an appointment to the navy ROTC regular program, which would get you a regular commission. 6:06 It paid you fifty bucks a month, paid your tuition, fees and books, for four years, and I was in mechanical engineering, which was a five year program at the time, so my dad said, “You save your fifty bucks and you pay for your fifth year of school, and you can stay at home, drive over to the U, and I‟ll give you the use of the car and pocket money”, and he was pleased, because it was a good deal for him and it was a good deal for me. Interviewer: Did you get to finish school before you went on active duty? You had to have a degree to get commissioned, so when I graduated, I was commissioned. Captain Morgan was CO of the navy ROTC unit and he was a good guy. 3 �He flew seaplanes in the 2nd WW and I enjoyed him. 7:00 We were in his office and he said, “Colonel Sullivan, Lieutenant Colonel Sullivan was the XO of the unit and he said, “The Marines Day, Colonel, will you do the honors?” He said, “Gladly sir”. Colonel Sullivan commissioned me. Captain Morgan was an interesting guy, because they had a little war room where the chiefs and the rest of the staff would have coffee, and he invited the seniors to become part of the coffee mess, so we had the opportunity for one on one interaction, or one and a few interactions with the senior midshipmen and the staff of the navy ROTC unit, which was very interesting and it was fun. Captain Morgan talked about--they dropped flares out of his amphib that he flew in the Caribbean. 8:00 They stuck in the chute, caught the aluminum on fire and burned this big hole in the tail of the airplane, so he managed to land it, keep it afloat and he--keep a very high speed taxi right up the ramp and lower the gear and taxi up, and they all—he shut the engines down and they all walked out of the hole in the tail of the airplane. It was a good war story from him. Interviewer: Once you graduated and were commissioned, what was your first duty? My first duty was the basic school at Quantico, Virginia. The Marine Corps use to have the basic school for new Lieutenants, and then they had junior school for junior grade officers, senior school and command, which was command and staff, I think. So, Lieutenants went to the basic school and amphibious warfare school was junior school, and that was senior Captains and Majors and then command and staff was senior school. 9:02 I think they dropped junior and senior, yeah, junior and senior are gone, I think. Basic school is still there and better known as TBS. 4 �Interviewer: Any specific memories of good, or bad, from basic training? TBS, oh I have one. We had seventy five M-60‟s on line and we were shooting the M60‟s across this ravine and into a hill. The muzzle blast was so intense I could feel it moving my cheeks, and no hearing protection, that‟s why I‟m wearing hearing aids these days, that and other things too, but anyway, they had a whole bunch of blue pillars stuck in the hillside, diagonally. 10:00 The M-60 was on a tripod and I realized that if I grabbed onto the elevating and traversing mechanism that I could move the elevating mechanism with my middle finger and I could move the traversing mechanism with my thumb. I tried it a couple times and watched and thought,”Yeah this works”, so I made it walk up the dummies. “Cease fire, who is shooting at those blue Pyramids over there?” I raised my hand and he said, “Lieutenant, do that again”, so I performed for my whole basic school class. I walked them up and he said, “Now bring it back down”, and that was a lot of work to get my hand work backwards, but I did, so I remember that. I was always good with weapons and Master Sergeant Johnson would take me into the armory at the University of Minnesota and I would take apart an M-1 sub machine guns and M1‟s. 11:01 The 1919 A-4 Browning machine guns, BARs and I was taking them all apart, because I was always interested in ordinance, so all the stuff that had to do with ordinance, I would do very well at. There were a couple of us that really knew something about firearms. Interviewer: Now, did you express your interest in flying prior to going to the basic school, or was that something that you chose after basic? My interest in flying was, and I always thought it was kind of interesting, but my junior cruise as a midshipman was four week in Corpus Christi for aviation and four weeks in 5 �Coronado for amphibious warfare, and that cemented the fact that I wanted to be a pilot and I wanted to be a Marine. After that cruise is when I went to see the Major and said, “I want to be a Marine”. 12:00 He said, “We‟ve been waiting for you to come in”, and during that cruise—I remember one time the “Blue Angels” demonstrated and practiced and then they all sat around and allowed the midshipmen to come over and talk to them, so I was talking to the “Blue Angels” when I was a junior in college, about aviation, of course Interviewer: A successful recruiting tool, having the “Blue Angels” talk to you. Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely, so after I completed basic school, I went to flight training and I went to Pensacola and went through ground school. Mechanical Engineering, that was duck soup, nothing to it, and I had to take some kind of nontechnical elective and I don‟t know how I ever got away with taking Physiology as a nontechnical elective and I hated it, because they talk about nothing but sodium and potassium balances and it was not fun for me. 13:03 I did learn something, because when we went through aviation physiology, I got every question right and I scored off the rank and aeronautics was easy, engines was duck soup, I took every engine course I could at the University of Minnesota, except jet engines—I waited for grad school. After I was done with pre-flight and was waiting to go to Safley Field, I drafted. Everybody else got to go to the beach for a couple of weeks while they waited for the pool to drain down. I was put in with the people that taught engines and I had to work on making tests, which was very interesting, because on good multiple choice tests you have to have answers that seemed reasonable. One correct and some that seemed reasonable and they all have to be the same length of words, more or less, and it was hard to make these tests and I really 6 �worked at that. 14:08 It was a lot of fun doing that, actually, so then I went to Saufley Field , went through primary and went to Meridian, Mississippi to McCain Field. John McCain was an instructor in VT-7 when I was a student in VT-9, so I knew who he was. I went through all basic there except gunnery and caraqual, so then we had to go back to Pensacola, main side for taking the T-2 aboard the boat and doing gunnery. Having completed that I went to Corpus Christi was in a pool for a couple of weeks then went to Beeville, Texas, the married student went to Kingsville and I went to Beeville. 15:05 Kingsville is in the middle of the King Ranch, which is just huge. Anyway, I went to Beeville and I went through advanced there flying the F-9 Cougar, and that was the first time I ever flew a single seat aircraft. We flew the two seated F-9, but when we got to advanced formation and gunnery and that kind of thing. They had single seat F-9‟s there, so we thought we were pretty hot when we flew the single seat F-9‟s. We would taxi, open up the canopy and put our elbows on the canopy rail, pull our mask off and let the wind blow in our face and think, ”I‟m hot stuff”. Interviewer: What year was it when you finally finished all of your training and were shipped out to Vietnam? I was designated a naval aviator in March, I think, of 1967 and my orders took me to Cherry Point, North Carolina. 16:05 I went to the Marine Corps air station, Cherry Point, and I checked in. I wanted to fly F-8‟s and I went down and talked to the people down there and they said, “We aren‟t sending anybody to fly F-8‟s anymore. You‟ve got your choice between F-4‟s and A-6‟s”, and I tangled with a bunch of A-6 guys that were going to go overseas and they said, “ F-4‟s, they‟re okay, but you ought to see what see what the A-6 is and what it can do”. They took me down to the squadron and they 7 �showed be the airplane, and they had me sit in it. They showed me all these massive arrays of switches and buttons, knobs and dials and I said, “Maybe this is kind of cool”, so I chose the A-6. I went to Arial Attack Squadron 224, I walked in and they said, “Oh boy, a Captain coming in”. 17:01 Because just after I got my wings, I had a promotion to Captain. I was a permanent 2nd lieutenant, a temporary 1st Lieutenant; you know that‟s the way we did things like that and had a promotion to a temporary Captain, permanent 2nd Lieutenant, and I walked into the squadron with my railroad tracks on and the said, “Oh boy, we got an experienced leader”, not. So, anyway—but, so I was so senior I ended up being the assistant maintenance officer for a while and working for a Major. Later on we had an LDO that became the assistant maintenance officer and I became the maintenance control officer. But, we had a lot of fun in that squadron. 18:04 We went through four CO‟s there and one of them was JK Davis and JK Davis was the first Marine, Marine aviator, to get a fourth star. He was the assistant commandant if the Marine Corps and the first time they had four stars for the assistant commandant. But, he was a lieutenant colonel at this time, and they formed a new squadron, a training squadron, for A-6 transition pilots, bombardiers and navigators, and he left 224 and went over to take over that squadron. When I was in there---one of our kids had sent off to Charles Schulz‟s and asked, “Can we put “Snoopy” on the tail of our airplane?” Charles Schulz wrote back this really nice note saying, “I‟d be very honored to have “Snoopy” on the rudder of your airplane”. 19:00 I was assigned the duty to cut the stencil of the dog house and “Snoopy” in the scarf and we had “Snoopy” on the tail of the airplane. I cut another stencil and I came in one evening in civilian clothes, and said, “Do you guys have some coveralls?” They said, “Yes sir we got coveralls”, and I said, “You got red paint?” 8 �They said, “No sir”, and I said, “Well, go over to 225 and borrow some red spray paint”. They said “Aye sir”, and I said, “Where‟s my stencil?” They said, “There”, and I said, “You got a stepladder?” They said, “Yes sir‟, so two “Snuffies” and I in my coveralls—I held the paint, befitting my rank. One of the “Snuffies” had a stepladder and the other one carried the stencil. So, we walked past the armed guard to get in the 225‟s hanger where the 202‟s were in there. 20:05 We opened up the stepladder and I climbed up and stood on the tail of the plane, one of the planes, they only had two at the time, and they handed me up the stencil and they climbed up there and held the stencil while I used red spray paint to paint the fireplug on the rudder, on both sides. Nobody said anything about it until the next morning when JK Davis came into work and he looked at that. Our then skipper was Paul German, a Lieutenant Colonel also, and he called Colonel Davis and he said, “John, what are you doing?”, and he said, “What‟s the matter Paul?”, and Paul said, “Why did you spray paint a fireplug on my airplane?” 21:00 He said, “I don‟t know what you‟re talking about”, and he had no idea what was going on. He was absolutely innocent of this. It was just me having a good time, and the troops too. We got away with that and when I left 224, before I went overseas, I told that story at my going away party, and Paul German said to me, “Good job, Jim, well done”, as a matter of fact, it was “Well done”, is what he said. You know, in the naval service, that‟s the highest praise you can get is “Well done”, those two words. Interviewer: Now, when you left to go overseas to Vietnam, did you leave from North Carolina, or did you leave from California? Did you go by carrier? Well, I went home on leave and went to San Francisco and flew from San Francisco to Okinawa, I think. 22:00 There was a very brief introductory—I think we got a chance 9 �to fire the M-16-- they had introduced the M-16 and they really had very disastrous results with that, because they used—they recycled artillery ammunition for the propellant in the M-16 projectiles, the cartridges, and in order to take the acid out of the old propellants, because as it ages it liberates a little bit of acid, so they put some sort of stuff in it like baking soda, it‟s not baking soda, but it‟s something like that, and it sort of neutralizes the acid. The problem with that is that the byproduct of it was very dirty. 23:00 The M-16 taps gas off and runs it through a tube, which runs into the bolt carrier and makes it operate. Well, shooting dirty ammunition would plug up that that tube and that was not part of the thing to be cleaned and there were no instructions on how to clean it, no way to clean it. So, there was a very bad situation where a Marine outfit got over run by the VC and a lot of Marines died. When they retook the hill, they found—not only did they find the Marines' bodies, but they found all these M-16‟s and every one of them was broken open and nonfunctioning. They wanted us to know and everybody to know, how far a M-16—so that was part of my pre combat training, and that was down in Okinawa. Then I flew from Okinawa down to Da Nang and i went into a processing center. 24:00 A-6 pilots either stayed in Da Nang with VNA 242 or went to Chu Lai with 513. Interviewer: What was your first impression as you entered Vietnam? My Vietnam Service Medal I wore with great pride, because that was my medal for the bravest thing I ever did, because I didn‟t know what was going to happen to me and I was really apprehensive that I would do something stupid and embarrass myself and my colleagues, and get people killed. So, standing up and walking off that airplane, going 10 �down the steps and going into that processing center was the bravest thing I‟ve ever done in my life without showing any emotion, maybe I did, but trying not to anyway. 25:03 Interviewer: Now, at this time you were still single, or were you married? I was still single. I ended up going to 242 and that was okay, it was right there and my first quarters were a Southeast Asia hut, which is basically, a frame of wood and the lower half of the wall has got slats, overlapping slats on a forty-five degree angle, so the air can move through it and screen on the inside of the building, then screen on the top part of it. Any breath of air will serve to cool you off a little bit. Later on, air crews got Quonset huts, and they put a Quonset hut and they quartered it and put an air conditioner on each end, a room air conditioner. 26:02 You had eight officers—eight air crew were in the Quonset hut, two in each quarter. Ultimately, I ended up with my bombardier and navigator and I being together and that was really—that was good, because I flew at night and lots of times I would fly and we would come back late at night and we wouldn‟t wake up anybody coming in, getting ready and going to bed. If you stumble around in the dark, you could wake up your roommates and that‟s not very, not a very good thing to do. My first flight was in May of 1968, I think, yeah, May of 1968, just during the monsoons. 27:00 I came back to Da Nang and we landed going north on runway 119. We landed on runway 1, with the wind and a thunderstorm on the north end of the field, and as we rolled out the line of the thunderstorm and the rain came halfway on the runway, and I went IFR on rollout. It was just a—I‟d never seen rain like that and I got the airplane stopped without an incident and we turned off the runway and refueled and all that good stuff. But, that was my introduction to Vietnam and I thought, “Boy this weather sucks”. 11 �Interviewer: Now, was there a lot of air and bombing action during the monsoon season? Oh sure Interviewer: For some reason I was thinking, because of the weather that it kind of slowed down during those periods. 28:01 The A-6—basically we flew at night, eighty percent of my flying was at night. A hundred and sixty missions at night and only forty three in the daytime, and we would hunt trucks, and whatever, at night, so the weather didn‟t stop us. I can‟t tell a story about that, remind me about that in a minute. I flew a few missions around South Vietnam at night and then shortly after that I went to North Vietnam. I remember this vividly, because we were told to buy Seiko watches because Sunday always came up red and Sunday was pill day. 29:03 That‟s when we took our Chloroquine, our anti- malaria pill. The problem with that is they tend to give you diarrhea, so Monday night, or Sunday night, one or the other, I‟d taken my pill and I‟m flying over North Vietnam and I‟m looking at the bombardier and navigator and I said, “For God sake find a target will you?” I had to go to the bathroom and sitting on an ejection seat you‟ve got no options. Eventually we found a target and we made it back and I was okay, but that was the hardest part about my first mission to North Vietnam, not embarrassing myself beyond hope, all measure. Interviewer: You could have said you were just scared blank. Yeah, yeah, not true Interviewer: You mentioned hunting trucks, what type of identification equipment did you use to find them in the jungle, in the dark and rain? 30:04 12 �The A-6 was a very sophisticated aircraft that the design was frozen in 1958. The system had an acronym of “Diane”, digital, integrated attack navigation equipment. We had search radar for target acquisition; we had track radar for locking onto it and getting range, precise range, depression and azimuth from the element, the edam line [?] of the aircraft. We had a digital computer that memorized the ballistics of all the weapons and they were stored on a rotating drum, a great big thing. It would take five marines to pick up the system and carry it and when the A-6A came out you could put it all in a briefcase, but it was old technology. Then we had an air data computer and we had Doppler radar to get wind shift and so on. 31:01 We could lock onto—bombardier and navigator could enable AMTI, airborne moving target indicator, If you looked at weather radar and you see all the ground return and then they do the MTI where they cancel out the ground return where nothing is moving, that‟s MTI. We could cancel out, that‟s working backwards from MTI, if something was going at very slow speed it would pop out on the scope and the bombardier and navigator could lock onto it and if we were in North Vietnam, or Laos--well that‟s a free fire zone for anything moving and that‟s fair game. We would go hunt trucks in North Vietnam and Laos and even the A Shau Valley. There wasn‟t ever a truck in the A Shau Valley that I ever heard of. 32:02 That‟s what we did, we used—early on they were using CBU‟s, but the bomblets would go off, they would pierce gas tanks, they would puncture the tires, but they would go out and recover the vehicles, repair it and put it back in service. We started using, and when I was there we were using five hundred pounders, Mark 82‟s with eighteen inch daisy cutters, I gave you a picture of that, and there are pictures in there. Anyway, a daisy cutter is an eighteen inch pipe full of high explosives, threaded on each end, one set of threads 13 �screws into the bomb and the bomb fuse well and then yo put the fuse in the other end and that gives you standoff when the bomb hits the ground it‟s now eighteen inches above the ground and at ground level. 33:03 It tends to get the shrapnel higher up, so you can destroy trucks better. They also come in a thirty inch, thirty, or thirty six inch daisy cutter. We put those on two thousand pounders and they‟re good for landing zone prep, but anyway, we‟d hunt trucks with eighteen inch daisy cutters and five hundred pounders, drop a stick on them and we could—we‟d typically carry twenty-eight five hundred pounders and they‟d put daisy cutters on the wing stations, not on the center line. The bombardier and navigator had a switch by his right knee and we called it the “dial a bomb” and you could put two, three, four , five, six, nine, twelve, fifteen, eighteen, twenty-four, thirty, pulses, I think, on there. 34:00 You could dial how many bombs you wanted to dial, you‟d turn on the stations and it would only drop until that one was satisfied, so you‟d make a run and you‟d drop enough bombs to try to take out a truck. What I typically did was, if we weren‟t taking fire, or much, I would do thirty degrees of angle a bank, thirty degrees of turn, then sixty degrees of angle a bank for quite a ways. The bombardier and navigator would just look to his right and he‟s be looking down the leading edge of the wing and that little left turn and right turn would time it so the bombs were just impacting the ground as I got into the sixty degree of angle a bank and started to turn. He‟d look out there, so we‟d do our own bomb damage assessment and you could—sometimes when you got some really spectacular results. 35:00 I remember Don looking at me and saying, “Oh, look at that” and I remember, his head turned and he went to the attitude gyro on the instruments and he was looking at the instruments to 14 �make sure I didn‟t do anything silly, and when I looked over there to see the secondary explosion and stuff coming off from that one and we were a good team. Interviewer: Now, were those free fall, or ballistic bombs, or were they guided, powered? Ballistic free fall, free fall Interviewer: You said you flew over two hundred missions? Yes Interviewer: Did you receive a medal, or citations? I got one Distinguished Flying Cross and fifteen strike flight air medals and when you accumulated twenty points, you got an air medal. The points were assigned for every mission that you flew, combat mission, you got a point. Every mission that you flew that was a combat mission and you took fire, or you were in a high threat environment, like North Vietnam, or Laos, you got two points. 36:08 when you accumulated twenty points you got an air medal. When we received an air medal, then they had a formation, and we got the air medal pinned on us. Then you just accumulated points after that, so I ended up with fifteen air medals, three hundred points, yeah. Out of two hundred missions, half of them were fire incidents and probably more than that were, but that I know were fire incidents, or high threat areas. We use to taxi out at night and watch some poor soul run down the runway ahead of us, rotate, get airborne and some guy would be sitting out there, some VC would be sitting out there with an AK-47 and you‟d see the tracers coming up at this airplane. 37:04 I said to one of my colleagues on time, I said, “Why don‟t they get a patrol and go out and get that son of a bitch?” He said, “Jim, you damn fool, they‟ll replace him with somebody who can shoot straight”. That‟s 15 �“Catch 22”, and I had read “Catch 22” when I was in the states before I went over there and I didn‟t like it and I didn‟t understand it, but I reread it when I was in Vietnam and then I understood what “Catch 22” really meant. Going out and getting a guy that‟s shooting at you off the end of the runway, and not doing it, that‟s “Catch 22”. Interviewer: You mentioned that many of the missions you were on you were taking fire, what was your sense of vulnerability at that point, or is it like, “Wow, they’re shooting, but everything is always going by”? Was there a real sense of anxiety and need to get out of there, or was it like, “Well, we’re in an airplane going real fast and chances on being hit are real slim”? 38:05 I‟ll tell you the first time I got shot at and I knew I was being shot at, was over in North Vietnam. My bombardier and navigator was Jim Wagner and he‟d flown “Rolling Thunder” missions to Hanoi and Haiphong, so was an old hand and he had extended his tour. He was a little myopic, and he wore glasses when he had his head in the boot, and I‟m looking out there and this sting of orange balls goes over the right wing, and I thought they were going right over the wing, I thought it was really close. I went, “Uh, I just got shot at”, and here came another one, a string of fire, and I said, “Jim, they‟re shooting at us”, and he comes out of boot and I have this vision of him looking out there and trying to focus his eyes and he said, “Aw hell, that‟s not close”, so we just motored down the road looking for trucks. 39:00 I thought, “If this old hand can face enemy fire that way, I guess I‟ll face enemy fire the same way”. Interviewer: Now, did yo always fly in the same plane? No, no, I didn‟t have my name on the airplane at all, and we flew whatever was up. If we were going to hunt trucks we needed a system. If you‟re going to go out and do other 16 �kinds of missions where you didn‟t need the system to be functional, you‟re only going to be an iron bomber; we‟d take anything they had. Back to the fire, if the fire was close, you would jink, and jinking is just making the airplane dance a little bit back and forth and up and down and just disrupting aim. Interviewer: Was your plane ever hit? Never hit, never had a hole in the airplane, knock on wood—close? Yeah 40:04 I remember looking in the rear view mirrors and seeing the fire explode behind me and over the top of me, and I had the—you could see it underneath and on the sides of us and we‟re right in the middle of this stuff and what are you going to do? You go straight ahead and you„re through it as fast as you can be. Interviewer: Now, were any of the other crews that you were close with, either in your Quonset hut, or whatever, were they ever hit, or shot down? A very good friend, Jim Fickler, was the flight line officer and his troops really liked him. I came back from a mission one night and pulled into the revetment and this corporal unlatched the ladder and he climbed up the ladder. 41:00 As I was opening up the canopy, and lifting my visor and taking off my oxygen mask, and he said, “Captain, do you know anything about Captain Fickler?” I said, “Know what? Why?” He said, “He‟s overdue and we‟re really worried about him. I‟m glad you‟re back, but we‟re really worried about him”, and Jim never did come back. He and his bombardier and navigator were on a mission to the A Shau Valley and they never found the wreckage, or anything. They presumed a killed in action now, because it‟s been so many years later, but he never came back. 17 �Interviewer: Did that incident affect how you went about your missions in the days following it, either being more cautious, or aggressive, or anything? No—I was sitting in an airport one time and I looked down and there was a young lady two seats across from me and down and she had a bracelet on, a MIA/POW bracelet. 42:05 I said, “Whose name have you got?” She showed me and it was Jim Fickler. I said, “Do you know anything about this, about him?” She said, “Not really”. He was from Kewaskum, Wisconsin, not too far from Rhinelander and so, I started telling her, I told about the corporal yelling in my face when I took the mask off and how much his troops really liked him. When they called her flight the tears were running down her face. I walked her up to the gate and the stewardess who was taking the tickets was looking at this and wondering, “I wonder what the hell that‟s all about?” We said goodbye and I said, “Are you flying on this flight?” She said “Yeah”, and I said, “Well, she‟s wearing a MIA bracelet and a friend of mine‟s name is on her MIA bracelet”. 43:06 I pulled out a five dollar bill, or whatever and I said, “Tell her I‟m buying her a drink”, and I don‟t know if she was twenty-one or not, but she got a coke, or a drink out of me anyway, because I made her cry. Interviewer: You made me cry. Well, it makes—and I can get emotional telling that story too. Interviewer: Now, when you were in Vietnam, in-between all your missions, were you able to get out, any relaxation time, and any entertainment? Yeah, they sent me up to Iwakuni to go to nuclear weapons delivery school. Now, that was kind of fun and they sent me to Okinawa to go to a—later on when I was group staff I got up to Okinawa to go to a career—what do you call it—a career placement office? 18 �Interviewer: Assignment? Yeah 44:03 Anyway, I went to Okinawa for a short week and Iwakuni for a week. Interviewer: Did you have any interactions with the local Vietnamese population? No, some of the folks had house mamasans to take care of their hooches, and I didn‟t trust the Vietnamese particularly, so I never hired a house mouse, and that was okay with my roommates and that was fine with them too. I think I was in Da Nang once, but never went to a restaurant, or bar, or anything. When the air force decided to do something a couple of times and that was my time out of Da Nang. We had a road that went right by our area and on the other side was what we called “Dogpatch”. 45:02 It was a Vietnamese village and I‟m sure there were VC in Dogpatch. One time when I had the group duty officer position I went out with the sergeant of the guard and I looked up and here‟s this young green Marine and he had a significant and emotional experience that I‟m sure he will relate to this day. When I was in basic school, one of our instructors talked about going to jungle warfare school in Malaysia and they had Gurkhas for the school's demonstration troop and they said, “We‟re going to put you out in a foxhole and let you watch and see how the shadows change how the terrain looks while all you‟re doing is looking over the edge of a foxhole as the sun goes down, and we‟re going to send a gerk out and you‟ll never see him”. 46:00 This Marine military officer, he said to himself, “Baloney”, and this guy told us this story. He‟s out there and he‟s looking and looking, and looking and looking, and the next thing he knows is this Gurkha is breathing on the back of his neck and that got his attention. So he did understand something about that. Well anyway, the sergeant of the guard and I went out and here‟s this young green Marine that didn‟t know nothing from nothin'. I guess he slept through 19 �infantry training regiment, or something or other, because he‟s walking the wire, marching the wire, right shoulder arms, he marches down to the end, does a halt, port arms, about face, left shoulder arms, and he marches back. I said, “God damn sarge, look at this”, “Yeah, I‟ll take it, hang on. If I yell, you identify me”, “Aye, aye, sir”. 47:00 So, as the kid walked towards me, I just put my head down and I hooded my eyes with my helmet and when he walked away from me, I took giant steps towards him and did the same thing when he came back this way, and eventually I‟m walking step for step with him right behind him and I breathed on the back of his neck. He just sort of froze for a moment and then I saw the butt of the rifle coming around and I said, “Report your post” and he said, “A,ba,ba,ba,ba,ba” and I‟m sure I scared the snot out of this kid that night. I said, “Look, if an aviator Captain can sneak up on you like I did, think about what the VC can do”. I said, “I don‟t care if you lean on that bunk over there and pick you r nose, or whatever, but I want you looking around and I want you to be alert and I don‟t want anybody to sneak up on you”. 48:00 I‟m sure I just scared him no end that time, because when the sergeant of the guard and I left, his head was like a swivel and he was looking around every which way. That was an interesting experience, something I learned in basic school and I applied in combat. Interviewer: Now, when you went on your missions, was there interaction between the air force pilots, the carrier based pilots, and your ground based marine pilots? Were they coordinated efforts, or were they pretty much individual? All of the night missions were fragged out of Saigon by the 7th Air force. I never did cooperative missions with either navy or air force, or other marine outfits either. We had—when we were going to North Vietnam we had a target time. 49:01 20 We were �free to roam up and down the roads where---our rules of engagements set that we could only attack what was on the roads, or if you had a forward air controller, you could get handed off to a forward air controller and he could specify your target for you. We had a target time and I‟ve forgotten if it was twenty minutes, or something like that, in North Vietnam. The whole idea was to keep pressure on the Vietnamese and don‟t run into unfriendly airplanes. I did tell the story in class about one point target we had where we were given the coordinates, map coordinates, of a cave and an attack access, basically running south, so my bombardier and navigator and I looked at the map and he figured out what he thought would be a radar significant point. 50:04 We hit the latitude and longitude of the cave we went up and he identified his radar significant check point, up point, to update the computer and we put the coordinates of the cave in and we set up the attack running in on that one. There was an Air Force flight, call sign Cadillac, it was working on the coast and we ran in and I think I dropped three two thousand pounders and I have a vision of at least one of those bombs going down the mouth of the cave. There must have been ammunition in it, or something, because we dropped the bombs and it went off and I looked in the rearview mirror and the whole sky behind me is yellow. I scared Cadillac and he said, “Cadillac check, four, three, two”. 51:04 Cadillac lead says, “What was that?” Cadillac lead was afraid one of his birds had gone into the ground, so I said, “Cadillac, Manual 4013, I‟m over to the west of you playing around”, and he said, “What did you hit?” I said, “I don‟t know, but it must have been spectacular”, and he said, “It was”, so that was my interaction with, you know— Interviewer: While you were in Vietnam, were you able to communicate back with your family, back in Minnesota? 21 �Well, we wrote letters all the time and the interesting thing about that was we just put free where the stamp is. Letters went back and forth. Interviewer: Regularly, good service as far as you could tell? Oh absolutely, because since I never left Da Nang, I always got my mail on a VMA 242, even when I was on group staff I always had a mailbox there, yeah. 52:05 Interviewer: Did you recount, as you look back on it now, did you give a fair and balanced report of what your activities really were, or did you color them to make it seem not quite as hazzardess? To my mother? For my mother, no, it was not a full and complete disclosure. I think I said—the first time I got shot at I think I put that in and said, “I got shot at tonight, no big deal”, or something like that. Because, my mother, I‟m sure was wringing a hanky in her hands and destroying it and she must have gone through a whole box full while I was overseas. 53:00 My dad recounted about his mother and my grandmother who had passed away by that time, and he said, “Good thing she‟s dead, because she would have spent the whole time you were in Vietnam on her knees praying with the rosary”. I was well aware that my parents, and particularly my mom, she was really apprehensive. My dad wanted me to get a portrait taken before I went overseas and I knew exactly what he was doing and I said, “Okay”, so I did that. Interviewer: Since you—you were in Vietnam how long, just over a year did you say? Thirteen months, three hundred—I think the average tour was supposed to be three hundred and eighty-eight days, and I think I early with three hundred and eighty-five. 22 �Interviewer: And you said you flew two hundred missions and about every day and a half you were in the air on a mission? Yeah 54:00 Interviewer: What did yo do to relax, or decompress? Go to the bar and drink, no, write letters and we did have movies and sometimes, if I was flying at night, we‟d go to the “O Club” and they had a movie on the patio and you‟d get yourself a soda and watch the movie, and then head down to the hanger at midnight, or whenever it was, and fly your mission. A lot of times we‟d come back from a mission and we‟d go to the mess hall and the enlisted mess hall had mid-rats, so if we met the right time we could go in there and get midnight rations, mid-rats, and the food in Vietnam was excellent. 55:00 We had a big area that had a kitchen, we had staff NCO serving over here, they had the enlisted people here, they had an NCO area in the enlisted mess and then the officers‟ mess over here, but we all had the same food, and it was good. It was the best food I had out of any mess and it was the food in Vietnam. Interviewer: Another question back on you missions. You would go--how many hours would you spend in the air and what was the—when you’d come back and you were probably limited by the amount of fuel you could carry, were you ever concerned about not having enough fuel to make it back to base? I was never concerned about having enough fuel, about not having enough fuel to get home. 56:00 I remember starting a penetration, a backhand penetration at night, and the Da Nang tower comes up on guard, “Da Nang‟s under attack, all aircraft depart the area”, and I looked up and yo could see the explosions of the rockets coming in, the flashes around the airfield, so we just went out and we came back and they opened it back 23 �up and we came in. One time we did that and I looked at the gas and I said, “I‟m just about “bingo” fuel”, which then I had enough fuel to go from where I was to Oban Thailand, to go over to the air force base at Oban, so I called Da Nang approach control, who I was talking with, and said, “I‟m going to Oban channel forty-five “. 57:00 Say it was channel forty-five, it was the tack on channel, and I said, “I‟m going to channel forty-five”, “Roger sir”, so I turned southeast and went to Thailand. They called me up later and either the base was under attack, or it was below minimums for weather, and they called me up and they said, “We‟re above minimums, or the attack ceased and you can come back”. I said, “Negative, I don‟t have enough fuel to come back in and then make it back, I‟m “bingo” already” and they said, “Roger sir, you‟re pigeons for your “hotsie bath” are”, and pigeons are the bearing and direction, radio terminology, and the “hotsie bath”, of course, is a bath. Interviewer: How long was a typical period in the air, two or three hours? No, no, I‟ve flown missions as short as forty minutes and not very many longer than an hour. 58:05 I think when I departed—when I diverted to Oban, that was probably an hour, or an hour and five minutes, or something like that. Interviewer: So really, engagement time, that doesn’t give you long to hunt trucks, or whatever, once you get to the area where you’re going to do your hunting. We had an area of operation and if we couldn‟t find a moving target we had alternate targets, which were typically fords across the river, because traffic would stack up on the northern side of the river crossing, so we just go bomb the north side, you know, that ford, and sometimes with pretty good success. 59:00 I was up in North Vietnam one night and the AMTI didn‟t work, so we went to our alternate target and dropped 24 �ordinance and I did my thirty degrees, thirty degree angle and bank, and sixty degrees angle and bank and Don says, “Wow, look at that”, and that‟s when he turned and looked at the gauges and looked out and I could see all this stuff going and it was really spectacular that night. So, we had--contingency plans were always around in one form, or another, so we had alternate targets. Interviewer: As your time came to when you were going to be going home, did your actions change, did you become more conservative or aggressive again, as you knew it was almost time to go home? Not really 00:01 I think I got a little more careful. I told the story for the class where I went in Haiphong, which was a nasty area and heavily defended with triple A. Don picked up a truck moving along Route 19 and we preceded to attack, and I saw ground fire and I started jinking and he came out of the boot to see what was going on and he looked out and here comes this string of orange balls at his nose. Lots of firing and he said, “Break left” and we were short at this time, we were within a month of going home. So, I broke left and I stood it on wing tip and bent it up, and I ended up going around back towards Da Nang. Well, we both decided, mutually, that this is nonsense, and we‟re going to go and get that guy. 1:00 The truck had—of course the truck is moving down the road and we moved back around and re-acquired him and commenced the attack, took a little more fire, jinked a little bit, but not much, and this is one of the few times I used “Rock eyes”. I selected two of them, they were very expensive and I‟ve heard various figures of thirteen thousand, or nineteen thousand for each weapon, so we were told to use them, but prudently. We selected two, we dropped two and Don saw lots of secondaries. He was looking over his shoulder as we left the area and lots, and lots, and 25 �lots of secondaries. We got back and debriefed of the hop that night and he had to fill out a form, because we dropped “Rock eyes”, justifying the expenditure. 2:02 Don was so emphatic about secondaries—yeah, they fragged an F-4 to go take photographs the next day and they found the burned out truck, but we also had taken out a re-supply point too, serendipitously, didn‟t know it was there. But the rock I opened up—I think there are four hundred and fifty two bomblets in one “Rock-eye” or something like that. They‟re like a bazooka round , anyway, a lot of them, it‟s an area weapon, an anti-tank weapon, good for trucks and also, re-supply points. There were still fires and stuff was burning and lots of distraction there, so sometimes you get lucky. Interviewer: You mentioned a while ago about rules of engagement and when you were in North Vietnam it was free fire? 3:00 Not exactly, rules of engagement were very restrictive, because we could free fire anything on the road, but I think we were limited to within fifty meters of the center line of the road, or something like that, was the only place we could hit. Interviewer: My real question was going to be, what do you think about rules of engagement like that, where it constricts your ability to do a job and win a battle, or a war? Catch twenty-two, but, you know orders are orders, so you follow the orders, you don‟t have to like it, didn‟t like being in combat, but you follow the orders. Interviewer: We got up to near the time to go home and do you remember the day you actually left and the route you took to get back to the states? 4:00 The previous night we had potato salad in the officers‟ mess and it was really good. At lunchtime they had it again and what I didn‟t know was they let it sit out all night and 26 �boy was I sick. I was in the head all day long and trying to go find the flight surgeons were all in bed and the corpsman wouldn‟t give me any—what‟s the medicine that locks you up? I can‟t remember what you call it, but anyway, it‟s like cork. A little tiny pill like this and it expands to miles, and miles, and miles of cork, and it stops the diarrhea for sure. Anyway, I got on the airplane feeling lousy, but I was glad to get on the airplane. 5:02 We went to Okinawa, deplaned, and a lot of these guys were so aggravated they had to stay in Okinawa for three, or four, or five days in order to get the next flight back home. I said, “Guys, relax, you‟re out of harms way, go to the PX and buy presents for your family, don‟t worry about it, it‟s free time”, but some folks didn‟t see it that way, but I did. Interviewer: What was your point of return, back in the states? El Toro as a matter of fact--we flew into El Toro and they rolled out the red carpet and I didn‟t want to walk on the red carpet, because I didn‟t think I deserved to walk on a red carpet, but anyway I had to do that. I went through customs and immigration and I had an enlarger I‟d bought, because I started doing photography when I was in Vietnam. 6:04 I remember they had a corporal going through all of my stuff, you know, to see if there was any contraband in there. I was so infuriated, I‟m a commissioned officer, and my word is my bond except when I‟m coming back home, and they‟re searching my gear for contraband and I was madder than a wet hen. Interviewer: What were they looking for; drugs or what was the primary thing of contraband that they were looking for? I have no idea what they were looking for, drugs I—certainly, any kind of contraband, weapons, drugs, I have no idea. 27 �Interviewer: But it was a “welcome home” at the base anyway, when you arrived back. Well, there was a red carpet, then there was—then I remember—I found out that there was a red light, is that what you call an all-night flight? 7:03 Interviewer: “Red eye” “Red eye” flight, yeah, “red eye” flight from Los Angeles LAX to MSP, Minneapolis and that‟s where I was going—nonstop, and I got on it and I called my folks from Los Angeles and said I was in Los Angeles and I was on this “red eye” flight and I would be at the airport at five o‟clock in the morning, or whatever it was and they said, “Good”. Then we went out and got in a cab and we‟re going down the freeways, Los Angeles at eighty fine and ninety miles an hour and I‟m thinking, “Jesus Christ, I survived two hundred and three missions, combat missions, and I‟m going to get wiped out in a taxi cab on a freeway”. Anyway, we got to the airport, I got on the airplane, but I was so excited I couldn‟t go to sleep. 8:00 Eventually, the stewardess sat down and she and I chatted across the western part of the United States, me drinking coffee and she‟s serving me coffee and it was enjoyable. My folks were ecstatic when I got off the airplane. Interviewer: So, there was no re-indoctrination to civilian life holdover in El Toro for a period of time before you were released to the public? No Interviewer: Once you arrived back in Minneapolis, do you recall the atmosphere, or the—with which you were greeted? Not by your family, necessarily, but by the population at large. 28 �It varied—there was a segment of the population that thought that I was a foul and evil thing that didn‟t belong in the public and probably should have been terminated before I came home. 9:00 There were some ex-servicemen who were very gracious about doing a difficult job under difficult circumstances. I remember, I had a date and I wanted to go to a really nice restaurant and I called up and made a reservation for two as Captain Perso. I picked my date up and we went to the restaurant and let the valet park the car and we went in. I went up to the maître d‟ and said, “I‟m Captain Perso and I have a reservation for two”, and the son of a bitch addressed me, when I said, “I‟m captain Perso and I have a reservation for two”, he said, “Mr. Perso, you table will be ready in a little while”, and he wouldn‟t address me by my rank and it just irked me beyond belief. 10:00 We were seated, had a cocktail, and a family came in with a young man and a younger sister, and eventually the young man got up and he came over and he stood in front of our table, right there, so I got up and introduced myself—he told me his name, I introduced my date and I looked at the waiter and I said, “Can you get a chair for this young gentleman?” They got him a chair and he sat down and joined us, and I said, “Do you want a drink?” The waiter said, “I can‟t give him alcohol”, and I said, “No, a “Hop Along Cassidy”, or a “Shirley Temple”, and I thought a “Shirley Temple” was a girls drink, but anyway, we got him a glass of soda pop and we talked, and my date said that his younger sister had wanted to come over, but her parents stopped her and just let the boy be with us. 11:00 When there food came, or our food came, he went back to his family, and then they stopped and spoke briefly on their way out. So, what turned out to be a major irritation, turned into a really delightful evening and that was kind of the way it went. Later on when I was in grad school, I went to the university and there was a cop 29 �standing on the corner because there were riots in progress, and I said, “What‟s going on?” He told me what was going on and it was sort of a dicey situation, so I turned around and I walked home. I saw my professors the next day, the next time I was in class and I told them what I‟d done and they said, “Well, you probably did the right thing”. That was after I was out of the Marine Corps--that was 1971. Interviewer: You certainly have a good recollection of all these things. Did you keep a diary while you were in Vietnam? 12:03 No, you prohibited from having a diary. Well, if it got captured, no, but I‟ve stayed very close with some of my colleagues ad I‟ve checked all my war stories with my bombardier and navigator, and others, and they said, “Yeah, I remember it exactly the same way”, so two of us have the same recollection. Interviewer: Do you feel that your time in the service prepared you well for your later career, and what was your later career? A good point and don‟t let me forget to address that. I came—when I came back to Cherry Point the second time there were no quarters available for Captains, the list was kind of long and I was in the officers transient quarters and that was not all that great, but it wasn‟t bad, sort of like camping out. 13:09 One of my squadron mates said, “You know there are furnished apartments up in the apartment complex that I live in, in New Buen”, which was twenty miles north of Cherry Point. So, I went and saw the housing officer and he said, “Yeah, if you want to get quarters allowance we‟ll give it to you, because the list is really long”, and I said, “Okay”, so I went up and I found a furnished apartment and got quarters allowance. One day I watched this sort of pick-up volleyball game adjacent to the parking lot and there was a girl there, and I went over and 30 �introduced myself and ended up marrying her. 14:00 We were married in the memorial chapel on the base and I applied for grad school at the University of Minnesota and was accepted, so I resigned my commission and went to grad school, and got a masters degree in mechanical engineering. I interviewed with Whirlpool and I was hired and I came here to St. Joseph in research and engineering, and back and forth, and eventually I was in the whirl washer group. We started--we had three plants that we built from a Greenfield, one in India, one in Brazil and one in Mexico and I was involved in all of that. 15:01 We had some difficulties in India, well I had lots of difficulties in India, which you might expect, but they sent me to Pondicherry to get some things squared away and I had three retirees, Whirlpool retirees, that I took over there and I led the team. It was interesting—I would go in and see the chef in the kitchen and find out what was fresh and we would all eat the same thing. I would do the meal planning—I was the scout master and took care of everybody. We had three retirees from this area and then we had one guy from Europe, also, so I took care of everybody. I was there for eight weeks, I guess, leading this team. 16:00 I said, “Probably thirteen months of combat in Vietnam was maybe an adequate preparation for two months in India”, because that was very difficult, that was very difficult. Every day we would drive by Pondicherry engineering college in the University of Pondicherry and I talked to the senior people in the company there, so we got a tour of the engineering school and the university. In the afternoon we were on the university and of course we‟re “vela carinas” and that means white man. It‟s not derogatory, it‟s descriptive, but we obviously stand out, and the students came over and congregated around us and wanted to talk to us. 17:02 the standard question you get was, “What do you think of India?” Some “vela carinas” are 31 �so gosh that they say, “This place sucks and why would anybody stay here?” I didn‟t agree with that and I‟d had enough cross cultural training, that I handled it a lot better than that. I told them the most honest thing I could say, “India is the most difficult place I‟ve ever traveled, but I like working with the people, some of the food, if it‟s not too spicy, I can handle, the scenery is interesting”, and all that stuff I could say with—I said with honesty and the students understood that I was being straight forward and honest with them. My Marine Corps experience and my experience in the south, you know, coming from Minnesota and all my training in the southern United States. 18:03 That was my beginning of my cross cultural training and then I ended up marrying this southern Baptist rebel Baptist girl and I‟m a Yankee Catholic Republican and we‟re still married, so I can be multi-cultural and I ended up my career at Whirlpool doing that kind of thing, and enjoying it. Between the Marine Corps and Whirlpool, I‟ve been to six continents and twenty-nine countries and thoroughly enjoyed it. Interviewer: Is there anything else you would like to add that we haven’t covered? No, did you get a chance to read any of the stories I wrote? Interviewer: I have not, no 19:00 Okay, let me give you just a brief background on that. One of the guys that was in 242 wanted to bring up a website and talk about the Marine 86‟s in Vietnam, so he did that and he solicited the air crews to write stories, which I did. I used a lot of that material when I did the presentation for the “Lest We Forget” group and I enjoyed doing that and that was the background of those stories, so that‟s what you‟ve got there. That‟s the reason that we did that. Interviewer: Okay, thank you 32 �One other story—when I was in Vietnam they said, “Jim, go down to group headquarters and at 14:30, and they‟ve got something for you”. 20:00 So I went there and here‟s this sergeant from headquarters Marine Corps, doing oral history and I had no idea what he was doing, so I looked at him and I said, “What‟s going on?” I didn‟t get any adequate preparation, I didn‟t think about what I should say, I didn‟t know—so my first attempt at oral history was a disaster and I said, “I‟m not doing this”, so here I am today so, “Sarge, wherever you are today, I apologize for not being ready for you then, but in the intervening forty years I‟ve become better prepared, and that‟s my motivation for agreeing to participate in the oral history program. 20:47 33 �34 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PersoJ Title A name given to the resource Perso, James (Interview transcript and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Perso, James Description An account of the resource James Perso was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin and later moved to Minneapolis, Minnesota where he grew up. After graduating from high school he took classes at the University of Minnesota in mechanical engineering and also went through an ROTC program. After graduating from college he was commissioned and sent to Quantico, Virginia for training in the Marine Corps. James continued after basic training with pre-flight, primary, and advanced flight training before he was stationed in Da Nang, Vietnam. While in Vietnam James flew a total of 203 missions with the 242nd Attack Squadron and was in country for 13 months. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Merle, Richard (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-12-03 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2172fe2f6fd68cfa9c0cdb25808004c8.pdf 82f673885c37fdec1090b3b470080aaa PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Incunabula Description An account of the resource The term incunabula refers to books printed between 1450 and 1500, approximately the first fifty years following the invention, by Johann Gutenberg of Mainz, of printing from moveable type. Our collection includes over 200 volumes and numerous unbound leaves from books printed during this period. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1450/1500 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Incunabula Collection (DC-03) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United </a> Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource text Language A language of the resource eng it la nl de Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sententiarum libri IV [folium 122] Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03_122Lombardus1491 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Peter Lombard, Bishop of Paris, approximately 1100-1160 Description An account of the resource One leaf from Sententiarum libri IV by Petrus Lombardus. Printed in Nuremberg by Anton Koberger after March 2, 1491. Illustrated with red rubricated initials. [GW M32527; ISTC ip00486000] Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Nuremberg: Anton Koberger Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Language A language of the resource la Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1491 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Text https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d260b7fa90158747c3c0c73f80538164.mp4 2d69de04fd9bba9b0cedbfa1629351c4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7c108daaa1e48b87760c87b6f4b51d05.pdf 74c1478807f43989effe13b66bf003ae PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Ben Peters Cold War/Vietnam War 1 hour 57 minutes 12 seconds (00:00:14) Early Life -Born on April 26, 1941 -Grew up on a farm in Holmes County, Florida -His father was a farmer -He was the youngest of ten children -He had to quit school after the ninth grade -When he was a baby his family was in an accident with a drunk driver -His mother suffered a crushed hip and was on crutches for the rest of her life -At the time government aid wasn’t an option -He had to go to school and work part time to support the family (00:02:15) Enlisting in the Navy -He had always planned on joining the Navy -He enlisted in the Navy sometime in 1958 when he was seventeen years old -His parents granted him permission to join -Upon joining he made sure that his mother was made his dependent -This meant $78 of his paycheck each month was sent back to his mother -While in the Navy he lived on about $40 a month -Two of his brothers had fought in WWII, one in the Army and one in the Navy -He hadn’t even considered serving in the Army until he joined the Navy (00:03:35) Basic Training -He was sent to San Diego, California for basic training -For him the quality of living increased upon joining the Navy -First time that he had access to indoor plumbing -He had no problem with the discipline of the military -Just did what he was told to do and everything went well after that -Basic training lasted nine weeks -Eight weeks of training and one week of serving in the mess hall (00:05:07) Serving on the USS Bennington -After graduating from basic training he was allowed to go home on a short leave -His orders were to report to the USS Bennington which was docked in San Diego -A week after reporting to the USS Bennington he went on his first cruise -The USS Bennington was an aircraft carrier -Specifically an attack carrier that carried about 200 fighter jets -He worked in the boiler room -Prior to joining the USS Bennington he had never been on a ship before -The ship was so big that if you were below decks it didn’t even feel being on a ship -This meant that the only time that he got seasick was when they hit rough water -The first cruise lasted six months �-During the cruise stopped in Hawaii and then at Yokosuka, Japan and at Sasebo, Japan -They were allowed to go ashore at Hawaii and at Japan -It was a culture shock for him, but he enjoyed the experience -Couldn’t understand why some sailors were complaining -Felt that they were taking too much for granted -His purpose working in the boiler room was to provide steam for the ship -Both for the engine and for the catapult that launched jets off of the ship -There were eight 600 pound boilers -The boiler room’s temperature was about 120oF -Worked either four hours on then four hours off or four hours on eight hours off -If you weren’t in the boiler room you were also doing other duties -Basically there wasn’t a lot of downtime on the ship -There were 2000 sailors onboard -He only worked with fifty at the most, and usually no more than twenty five -After the cruise they returned to San Diego and stayed in port for one week -After returning to port for a week they would set sail for two weeks -Go directly out into the Pacific Ocean -Sail to Seattle, Washington or to Long Beach, California or San Francisco, California -When they sailed to an American port they would stay for three or four days -Each year they would go on a six month cruise to the Far East -Never got to see Australia or mainland Asia while in the Navy -While onboard the USS Bennington there were never any crisis moments due to the Cold War -Even at sea they were able to receive mail from home -A mail plane would routinely fly in to deliver mail (00:13:17) Leaving the Navy -He stayed in the Navy for four years -At the end of his service in the Navy he was a Boiler Tender 2nd Class Petty Officer (E5) -He had made it to the rank of E5 in three years as opposed to four years -He had the option to become an E7 (Chief Petty Officer), but decided not to reenlist -At the end of his time in the Navy he wanted to transfer to the Army to become a paratrooper -He was colorblind though which meant he couldn’t be a paratrooper -Before leaving the Navy he was able to get his GED -His time in the Navy ended in March 1962 -At the end of his enlistment he was in the Philippines -Left the ship at Subic Bay then travelled up to Clark Field -Because he was a petty officer he could fly home, not sail home (00:17:19) Joining the Army & Basic Training -He stayed out of the military for over ninety days -Enlisted in the Army and reported for basic training on May 10, 1962 -His basic training was at Fort Jackson, South Carolina -He entered the Army as a corporal and was able to go through basic training with that rank -This meant that he was treated as more of an assistant than a trainee by drill sergeants -He didn’t have to go through the marching and disciplinary drills like other trainees -Basic training lasted eight weeks (00:20:18) Advanced Individual Training (AIT) -After basic training he went to AIT to specialize as an infantryman �-AIT was also at Fort Jackson -There was more classroom work and more of an emphasis on weapons training and tactics -At the time that he was in AIT Vietnam wasn’t even really talked about yet -AIT lasted another eight weeks (00:21:49) Special Forces -After AIT he was approved to go into the Special Forces -He was sent to Fort Bragg, North Carolina to wait for his training to begin -Stayed at Fort Bragg and waited for two or three months -Ultimately he never got any training and was transferred before it began -He wanted to be a medic in the Special Forces, but was told he’d probably go into demolitions (00:23:38) Transfer to the 82nd Airborne Division -After the Special Forces he was transferred to the 82nd Airborne Division in late 1962 -He stayed with 82nd Airborne Division for six months -During his time with them he served as a fire team leader for a squad -In command of four soldiers in a squad -Before going to the 82nd he was able to complete Jump School (paratrooper school) -Able to do this in spite of his colorblindness (00:25:10) Transfer to Fort Benning -After six months with the 82nd he requested a “Hardship Transfer” to Fort Benning, Georgia -He wanted to be closer to his mother because her health was deteriorating -At Fort Benning he was able to get into the Infantry School there -He served as an assistant to the instructors -Specifically in the areas of navigation and squad tactics -While in the Infantry School he was introduced to platoon and company sized tactics -Stayed at Fort Benning for three years (00:26:55) Becoming a Helicopter Mechanic -After his time at Fort Benning he applied to go to Officer Candidate School (OCS) -He wasn’t able to go because his paperwork got lost -He applied for the mechanics course and was approved for that -He was sent to Fort Eustis, Virginia for Helicopter Mechanic Course -The training lasted about nineteen weeks -After that he was assigned to the 101st Airborne Division -When he joined the 101st Airborne Division he was a sergeant -He joined the 101st in December 1965 -Only wound up staying with the 101st for only six months -While at Fort Eustis he had applied to go to OCS, but he was denied -His colorblindness prevented him as well as a misdemeanor from his time in the Navy (00:31:10) First Deployment to Vietnam -After the 101st Airborne Division he was assigned to the 173rd Airborne Brigade -As a result he received orders to be deployed to Vietnam -He was willing to go wherever he was told to go -As a career soldier he welcomed going to a combat zone -He flew to San Francisco and then flew out of there bound for Vietnam on a chartered jet -En route they stopped at Guam (or Wake Island) to refuel -He arrived at Tan Son Nhut Air Base, South Vietnam -It was shocking, but fascinating, to get rapidly immersed in Vietnamese culture �(00:33:23) Duty with the 173rd Airborne Brigade -The 173rd was based out of Bien Hoa Air Base which was twenty miles from Tan Son Nhut -From Tan Son Nhut he was taken to Bien Hoa on a bus -His assignment was to be a helicopter mechanic for the 166th Transportation Detachment -Because of his rank he was made a shift leader immediately -They had pretty good living conditions compared to what the infantry had in the field -Started off living in tents, but eventually built more permanent living structures -Learned that you couldn’t leave tools out in the sun, otherwise they’d be too hot to touch -He stayed at Bien Hoa for the entirety of his deployment -He only went out into the field if a helicopter was shot down -He would go out with another mechanic and assess if it could be salvaged -If it could be salvaged it would be repaired in the field and then flown out -He would go into the field once every two or three weeks -He enjoyed going into the field, but recognized that it was still dangerous -The mechanics would go in with weapons and an infantry escort -One time an escort was not available and a mechanic was killed (00:36:56) Downtime in Vietnam -He was allowed to go off of the base when he had free time -There were brothels and bars near Bien Hoa that catered to the soldiers -He remembers visiting the bars and that they were small -He doesn’t recall there being any discipline problems because of the brothels or bars -He had a friend that was an E6 (staff sergeant) working at the port in Saigon -He was able to go and visit him two or three times during that deployment (00:39:12) Loss in Vietnam -He remembers one soldier in his crew that had a family back home with a baby on the way -This crewman wanted to transfer to a helicopter crew to be a crew chief -It meant getting a better pay, but also being in greater danger -Ben tried to convince him not to transfer, but he did anyway -A few weeks later that crewman was killed -That was the one thing that happened during the first deployment that stuck with him -It taught him not to get too close to people in Vietnam (00:40:59) Officer Candidate School (OCS) -At the end of 1966 he was finally approved to go into Officer Candidate School -He flew back from Vietnam to Fort Benning, Georgia -He knew what to expect upon going into OCS after spending so much time at Fort Benning -The verbal harassment didn’t really surprise him, or faze him at that point -During one training mission he was made a rifle company commander -As a result he was scrutinized more, but also supported more -The trainers during OCS were tough, but they were supportive of him -Some of the candidates were washed out or recycled into a new class -Some men just couldn’t take the training anymore or just didn’t want to be an officer -OCS lasted six months -There was an option to have a different specialization, but he decided to stick with the infantry (00:45:22) Deployment to West Germany -He was deployed to West Germany after completing OCS �-He was assigned to the 1st Battalion 36th Infantry Regiment 3rd Armored Division -Twenty miles north of Frankfurt, about 75-100 miles from Czechoslovakia -In 1968 Soviet troops occupied Czechoslovakia and his unit was placed on the border -Their potential mission would have been to stop a Soviet invasion -They were given a half hour survival time in the event that that happened -During his time in Germany he made the rank of first lieutenant -Started off as a weapons platoon leader -Then moved on to being a support platoon leader -Dealt with the supply logistics for the battalion -After being a support platoon leader he was made a company commander -His company was under strength (only about 50% of what a normal company should be) -The problem was that men were volunteering to be redeployed to Vietnam -As a result this was taking troops out of Germany -During his time as company commander he didn’t have any discipline problems -While in Germany he was allowed to live off of the base -Only spent a night or two at home though -After being deployed to Germany he served with a whole new group of soldiers -He stayed in Germany for two years and returned to the U.S. in 1969 (00:53:15) Military Advisor Training and Language Courses -Upon returning to the U.S. he applied to become a military advisor and learn Vietnamese -He felt that having more training would make him more valuable as an officer -He was sent to Fort Bragg, North Carolina for the military advisor training -Taught about Vietnamese culture and propriety in Vietnam -Basically how to interact with the people without offending them -The language course was split between Fort Bragg and Fort Bliss, Texas -During the course he could carry on a conversation in Vietnamese with his classmates -In Vietnam the people could barely understand him -He wound up not becoming a military advisor in Vietnam -He wishes that he could have been attached to a South Vietnamese unit -Because of his training he was made the S5 Officer (public affairs) for his battalion -He would go into villages with medics and provide assistance to the people (00:56:35) Redeployment to Vietnam -When it came time to be redeployed he knew that he would be going over as part of the Army -Not as part of the Military Assistance Command Vietnam (MACV) -He was redeployed to Vietnam in January 1970 -Became the S5 Officer for the 2nd Battalion/506th Infantry Regiment 101st Airborne Division -Based out of Camp Evans near the demilitarized zone and the coast (00:59:22) Duty as an S5 Officer -He was part of what was called the “pacification” program -Basically winning over the Vietnamese civilians to support the United States -He was in charge of making sure orphanages in Quang Tri were supplied -He would go into villages with medics to provide aid to villagers that needed it -He was also in charge of making sure supplies were gathered and distributed to civilians -He also had a team that helped train Vietnamese militias -They would go into villages and train civilians how to fight against the communists -Men that had been in the field were used for this job �-It was still dangerous, but it was more relaxing than being in the field -While operating as the S5 Officer the area was fairly quiet in terms of enemy activity -There were signs of fighting though, especially among the civilians -Remembers treating civilians that had been wounded by American weapons -Indicated that they were probably Viet Cong, but it couldn’t be proven -Made sure that they were treated anyway even if they were a possible enemy -HQ Company (the company he was in) dealt with the logistics for the battalion -Overseeing where supplies, combat personnel, and medics were in the field -There were seventy five personnel in the company spread out around the area -He spent most of his time on Camp Evans or on firebases -Checking up on personnel on firebases and seeing if they needed personnel or supplies -He had good people working for him -He was an S5 officer from March to July 1970 (01:05:20) The Ripcord Campaign -The 2nd Battalion of the 506th Infantry Regiment was very active during the Ripcord Campaign -His job was to make sure that companies were resupplied and combat effective -The catch to that was that he was responsible even if the circumstances weren’t helpful -Example: He had to be flexible with commanders in the field -Example: Had to be flexible with the weather -There were times where helicopters couldn’t fly due to fog -This meant supplies or a medevac couldn’t get to soldiers in the field -He was busy all the time -He had a good idea of what was happening in the field around Camp Evans -Kept up on the units by using the radios in the Tactical Operations Center at Evans (01:09:35) The Battle of Firebase Ripcord -On July 1, 1970 the North Vietnamese began a siege of Firebase Ripcord -When the Battle of Ripcord began he was on R&R in Hawaii with his wife -When he got back he was told that he was being reassigned to command Bravo Company -He was sent out to Ripcord on July 17, 1970 -The next day on July 18 a Chinook helicopter was shot down on Ripcord -B Company’s duty on Ripcord was to provide perimeter security -This basically meant digging in on the firebase and enduring the enemy barrage -He would go out and check the positions of his men when the barrage would stop -He was in Ripcord’s Tactical Operations Center when the Chinook was shot down -Remembers that it crashed into the artillery’s ammunition dump -As a result the ammunition started to explode -One of the helicopter crewmembers was killed in the crash -A large number of artillery guns were also destroyed in the crash as well -He monitored what was happening to the units in the field in the Tactical Operations Center (01:17:50) The Fall of Firebase Ripcord -On July 22 he was told that Ripcord was going to be evacuated -That same day Colonel Lucas was mortally wounded -Ben was called to the Tactical Operations Center by Lucas -Lucas gave him his map and said that he was in command now -Lucas was evacuated to Camp Evans and he died on the helipad -When it came time to be evacuated there were still Pathfinders in the field �-He was able to evacuate everyone else at Ripcord before himself -He was one of the last people left on Ripcord -After the evacuation there was still one Vietnamese soldier that had been mistakenly left behind -He was evacuated before the firebase was overrun though -After everyone was off the firebase he remembers that it was eerily quiet -Even the North Vietnamese artillery had stopped firing -After leaving Ripcord U.S. B-52 bombers flew in and carpet bombed the area -He, and the rest of the survivors from Ripcord, regrouped at Camp Evans (01:28:00) Commanding B Company after Ripcord -After Ripcord he was left with only about sixty or seventy men in his command -They returned to the area where Ripcord had been to continue with their patrols -He kept Colonel Lucas's map all throughout the rest of his time in Vietnam -Long after the war he donated it to the Museum of the Infantry School at Fort Benning -After Ripcord there wasn't as much enemy activity -Remembers two men getting killed due to an accident involving a claymore landmine -The irony was that one of those men had been very proficient with claymores -They ran into a few ambushes, but it was never anything major -He remembers a rocket propelled grenade hitting a helicopter during a resupply operation -It didn't stop the helicopter from flying, but it did damage the cockpit -At this point the North Vietnamese were just working to make sure their presence was known (01:37:10) Leaving Vietnam & Stateside Service -He was back to the United States before Christmas 1970 -His new assignment was with the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, North Carolina -He requested a staff position so that he could also go to college -His request was denied because his orders were to command A Company -He commanded A Company for eleven months -After those eleven months he received his "reduction in force" letter -Basically the Army was trying to downsize as Vietnam was starting to wind down -His replacement wasn't deemed good enough, so he was allowed to stay in -At least until a suitable replacement was found (01:42:50) Reenlisting -After he was discharged he was able to reenlist, but not as a captain -When he reenlisted he went in as sergeant -He went to Montgomery, Alabama to reenlist -He requested his assignment to be at Fort Rucker, Alabama and that request was granted -At Fort Rucker he served as a flight operations officer -After being at Fort Rucker for thirty days he was promoted to staff sergeant -He was told that there was a chance he'd be sent to Thailand to assist with command there -He was more than willing to take the job, but was ultimately declined (01:46:02) Assignment to Greece -He was selected to be sent to Athens, Greece -He was to be the noncommissioned officer in charge of a nuclear weapons storage site -During that deployment he was allowed to bring his family -Before starting his duty in Athens he had to get special clearance -He arrived in Greece in 1973 and stayed until 1975 -While he was in Greece the dictator Papadopoulos was overthrown �-He was a dictator, but he was also pro-American -Under him they had IDs that protected them from being arrested -Under the new dictatorship those IDs were taken away -He remembers American cars being vandalized and destroyed -They were able to live on the base, but that was the only place they really could live (01:50:00) End of Service -He returned to the United States in 1975 -His enlistment was up so he decided to reenlist again -He was assigned to Fort Rucker again -This time he got his formal qualification to be a flight operations officer -He ended his service at Cairns Army Airfield, Alabama -Retired as a flight operations chief (01:50:30) Life after the Army -He went back to school and learned about upholstery and carpentry -He wound up getting a job in the Post Office -Became a customer service supervisor and retired from that after twenty years (01:51:27) Reflections on Service -Learned to never give up -If you want something bad enough you'll have to work for it -He has no regrets about any of his service -Because of his service he met his wife when he was at Fort Benning in the early 1960s -As of 2014 they have been married for forty nine years � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_PetersBJr1683V Title A name given to the resource Peters Jr., Benjamin (Interview outline and video), 2014 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-09-10 Description An account of the resource Ben Peters was born in 1941. He grew up on a farm in Holmes County, Florida and enlisted in the Navy in 1958. He served for four years on the carrier USS Bennington. After leaving the Navy, he enlisted in the Army in 1962. He served with the 82nd Airborne Division, then at the Infantry School in Fort Benning, Georgia, then as a helicopter mechanic with the 101st Airborne Division. In mid-1966 he was sent to Vietnam with the 173rd Airborne Brigade and served as a helicopter mechanic for the 166th Transportation Detachment at Bien Hoa Air Base. After six months he returned to the United States to go into Officer Candidate School at Fort Benning, Georgia. After completing Officer Candidate School he was sent to West Germany to serve with the 1st Battalion 36th Infantry Regiment 3rd Armored Division for two years. Returning to the U.S. in 1969, he trained to be an adviser to Vietnamese force, but when he redeployed to Vietnam in January 1970 he was sent to the 2nd Battalion of the 506th Infantry Regiment of the 101st Airborne Division as their public relations officer and worked with civilians in the area around Camp Evans. During the siege of Firebase Ripcord in July, he went to the base to take over the battalion's B Company, and was in charge of security as the base was evacuated on July 23. He continued to command B Company until he left Vietnam in December 1970. After the Vietnam War he served at Fort Bragg with the 82nd Airborne Division, at Fort Rucker, Alabama as a flight operations officer, in Athens, Greece as noncommissioned officer in charge of a nuclear weapons storage site, and then at Cairns Army Airfield, Alabama as a flight operations chief until he left the Army in 1975. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Peters Jr., Benjamin Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/880b42eacda8b53d8d7b5cd93735708e.mp4 e27ef9afa796f4e92ce7ec5151cf725c https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9af61450ce49b33cf357a03c6545fb85.pdf d39e38176ddf13a2478c540892a5aae3 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project George Peterson Jr. (01:02:47) (00:25) Enlistment • • • • • George enlisted in the Navy when he was 17 years old He was sent to Newport, RI for training George made a good friend from Detroit while training and both of them decided to sign up for the submarine service They were sent to submarine school in the New England area [New London, CT] about two weeks later After nearly a year of training George graduated from submarine school and was assigned to work on the USS Pilotfish submarine in NH (04:55) Submarine School • • • • • George had been to two different schools; there was one for getting acquainted with submarines and mechanics and the other school was for construction They were working on newly commissioned subs that weighed about 1500 tons, were 310 feet long, and 27 feet wide The subs could reach a depth of 425 feet and had 186 crew members Each student was allowed one year to pass the classes and would be washed out if they could not pass within one year George felt that those working on submarines got better pay and better food than men working on surface craft (14:30) Submarine Attacks • • • • The Pilotfish was hit by many depth charges on its fourth patrol; it was the scariest time ever in George’s life The sub was also hit often with aerial bombs The sub would carry 120,000 gallons of diesel fuel when it left port After they used the fuel they would empty the fuel tanks and convert them to driving tanks at shore (17:40) Submarine Life 1943-47 • • • • • • Every day was very routine; there were 4 sections on the sub with 25 people working in each section Each man would work 4 hours on in their section and then have 8 hours off They were usually at sea for about 60 days at a time There were only two showers on the sub and very little fresh water They used evaporators to convert the ocean water George and others often relaxed on their off period when they were at port �• • • • • There was always lots of beer, but not much whiskey After a patrol they usually had about 2 weeks off and a relief crew would fix anything wrong on the sub and restock it George went on 6 war patrols altogether on the Pilotfish George had been in port at Panama, Hawaii, Guam, Midway, and the Marshall Islands They often played baseball with other sub crews and then would all drink together after the game (31:25) Duties on Board • George had the duty of wheel watching on the sub while near Japan during the surrender • He often stood watch on the surface and worked on radar while submerged • The radar would help them locate enemy subs and surface craft • The periscope stuck out of the ocean by about 65 feet • The sub stored electricity in large batteries and there were thousands of cells on the sub • They often had an exchange of duties and did not spend long working in one area • Every man was trained to be able to work every job on the submarine • (40:15) End of the War • • • • • • • • The sub had been stationed in Nagoya, Japan in August of 1945 They received a radio message that told them to cease hostilities George was assigned to an occupation force that went into Japan After the surrender on September 2, the officers were able to go ashore Most of the reserves on the sub were sent home after the war, but enlisted men still had time to make up About 10% of the crew was usually pulled off the sub after each patrol George had extended his service time while in Guam The Pilotfish sank in 1946 during a bomb testing and George was then assigned to the Catfish (50:10) Working on Port • • • • George had been assigned to work with the Naval police force on shore and worked patrolling their base in Hawaii He had been promoted to First Class Gunner’s Mate George was offered to commission a new ship in San Diego and work on as First Class Gunner’s Mate He would have been in charge of the repair force on the ship, but he decided not to extend his service and was discharged in 1952 �1---­ I~ - o IN a a co o C <C iil en s:: o - ::J Q) <C ::J Q) I Q) C ::J o z ::J <C - 8, zr CD C (J) (J) ::!2 I' ~ ." enI I:J <C �c (J) (J) -0 -, 51 -10 :!!I (J) I -0 <0 BIKINI (AP):- THESUBMA~INE Pl101FISH WAS MOVED SUNDAY 'INTO.1HElO­ ~:rl Ol'lJVlt-tERE THE ,.ATOMIC BOMS VHlL PROBABLY BE EXPLOIED .ry _ ; .\ -".," 'HEAVY-HULliED SUB\4ARIE YfAS! MOORED BETWEEN t.'·'· . - ..'. A. i;fii,RFtlR ./h -.O_::,'{ ,,: \" J~L'( .?5TH. THE ,t ". "•.': . ,: .-' { """::" eAMI fRSAAATOOA AND . . ~~. \f:~/i' ",~., :' .' '--/',l' & -0 III <0 CD � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PetersonG Title A name given to the resource Peterson, George (Interview outline, video, and papers), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Peterson, George Description An account of the resource George Peterson enlisted in the Navy when he was just 17 years old and was then sent to Rhode Island for training in 1942. During training George and a friend volunteered for submarine service and were transferred shortly after. George spent nearly a year training for submarine service and was finally on his first war patrol in 1943. He spent two years making six war patrols throughout the Pacific, with port breaks at Panama, Hawaii, Guam, the Marshall Islands, and Midway. After the war George was part of the police force in Hawaii, where he helped to patrol the base. George had made it to the position of First Class Gunner's mate when he was discharged in 1952. Photographs are appended to interview outline. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Montagna, Douglas (Interviewer) Great Lakes Naval Memorial & Museum (Muskegon, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-10-30 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4cced27224d8a5a0755960d335da0920.mp4 c372f8e7b50f5f904b751382fba582df https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/844140292fe125603347387b02d12275.pdf c6405abbbeb3ee0390406ee44239022e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project John Peterson World War II (45:50) Back ground Information (00:55)         Born July 26th 1919 in Wichita Falls, Texas. (1:00) He was an only child. (2:04) He was raised by his grandmother. His mother passed away and his father left him. (2:25) His grandmother lived in Warren, Pennsylvania. This is where John was raised. (2:55) He graduated from high school 1937. (3:32) After high school he began working full time at a paper company In Middletown Ohio. Here he worked on the trimming machines. (4:00) After Pearl Harbor John enlisted in the spring of 1942. (4:45) At the time of his enlistment he was building aircraft engines in Dayton, Ohio. (5:14) Basic Training (5:40)           For basic training he was sent to Camp Wheeler, Georgia. (5:50) Basic lasted 7 weeks and was very difficult. The drill instructors were tough. (6:05) There were approx. 200 men in his company. (6:30) After basic he attended 8 weeks of jump school at Fort Benning, Georgia. (6:47) He volunteered for jump school. (7:05) During jump school the men often began with a run at 4 AM. The men had to jump 5 times in order to earn their wings. (7:44) The men first jumped from 200 foot towers than from 1,200 feet out of a plane. (8:10) The trainers in jump school were just as tough on the soldiers as in basic. (8:55) After jump training he remained at Fort Benning and was assigned to the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment of the 101st Airborne Division. (9:46) He joined F company while in Hungerford, England. (11:00) Service in Europe (11:15)         He sailed to Europe aboard the Queen Mary. (late spring of 1944) (11:18) His unit was then placed in Hungerford England on the coast. (11:56) He was moved out of Hungerford in June of 1944 several weeks after arriving (12:18) John was transported via C24 transport with about 18 other soldiers. (12:58) His company was dropped in Normandy in the D-Day parachute landings on the night of June 5/6, 1944. (13:46) He had difficulty reuniting with his company after landing. (14:58) There were no German soldiers he immediately encountered. (15:20) After being on the ground in Normandy, he was taken back to England by boat for approx. 1 month during the summer of 1944. (16:00) � The 101st was then sent back to Normandy and were readying to go to Paris for the winter of 1944. {Note: The 101st did not return to Normandy. They dropped into the Netherlands in September in the Market Garden operation, and remained there until they were moved to Mourmelon, France, late in the fall.] This plan was interrupted however by the Battle of the Bulge. (18:16) Combat in Europe (The Battle of the Bulge) (19:00)               Te men were then sent by truck to Bastogne France. (19:40) While in Bastogne, the men fought in a forested area. This terrain gave the German tanks difficulty. (20:24) He was in a 2 man foxhole while in combat. (21:44) His foxhole buddy, Pedersen, was his friend during the war. However he last contact with him after his service. (22:10) While in his fox hole he was almost bayoneted by a German soldier. (23:34) He did come face to face with a German soldier whom he fired upon. (24:10) General Patton was the one who relived his unit at the bulge. (25:11) When his unit moved into battle they were undersupplied. This worsened after the unit was surrounded later in the Battle of the Bulge. (25:30) Some supplies were parachuted in while the division was surrounded. (26:29) He only knew of one casualty during the Battle of the Bulge but he is unsure of the total number taken from the company. (27:22) During his service he was an infantryman. (29:15) While in the field, John shot a chicken in hopes of cooking it later. (28:40) While digging is foxhole on one occasion he accidentally dug up German head. (29:25) After The Battle of the Bulge, he and his company continued east into Germany. (30:00) Late Service in Europe (30:58)      His company liberated prisoner camps and concentration camps. He recalled the awful smell of both. He also recalls the poor state, particularly in the concentration camp, that the prisoners were in. (31:00) His unit eventually ended up at the Eagle’s Nest in Berchtesgaden Germany in 1945. When he reached the Eagle’s Nest there were no men there. (31:48) After Berchtesgaden, John and his company where sent south to Austria in the summer of 1945. (33:18) Initially he felt that the men were in Austria to prepare to aid in the invasion of Japan. He and the other men were issued new equipment. (33:40) The men left from a port in France on the Queen Mary to return to the U.S. (35:05) Experiences in Europe (35:20)     John was awarded the Presidential Unit Citation and 39 medals and ribbons including the Purple Heart. Several of the medals were rewarded in 2011. (35:40) At the end of the war John held the rank of Staff Sergeant. (36:52) He contacted his wife when in Europe via mail. (37:47) He was married and had 2 children before enlisting in the service. (38:40) �   While in the Battle of the Bulge the men in his unit ate K rations. They were not able to light fires during this battle. K rations remained the primary food source for most of his time in Europe while in the field. (40:16) For entertainment the men often would play cards. He did experience some USO shows. (42:57) While based in England he had a 10 day leave in Scotland. (43:58) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PetersonJ1294V Title A name given to the resource Peterson, John (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Peterson, John Description An account of the resource John Peterson, born in 1919 in Wichita Falls Texas, and was raised by his grandmother in Pennsylvania. When Pearl Harbor happened, he was married and working in an aircraft engine factory in Dayton, Ohio, but went ahead and enlisted in the Army. He trained at Fort Benning, Georgia, and qualified as a paratrooper there. He was sent to England in the spring of 1944 and was assigned to the 101st Airborne Division. He jumped into Normandy with them, and later fought at Bastogne and into Germany. Once in Germany, he helped to liberate several POW and concentration camps, and went to Hitler's retreat at Berchtesgaden. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Erichsen, Wallace (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-09-01 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/624da354523b4f5e3e16380551b06579.m4v 045aa036d509bcf21bdd649f6d645180 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1bbefabc6502f32b02224301e0366170.pdf 3c66bdefdc98cdbb3ff19f94d735bdfa PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview William Peterson Length: 16:23 (00:40) Background Information    William was born on May 1, 1924 He had been working with his father to train bird dogs before he enlisted in the Navy William spent 3 years in active duty during WWII and then re-enlisted in the reserves for 4 years during the Korean War (2:25) Pacific  William began working as a photographer in New Guinea during WWII  He flew in B-24s taking pictures to make maps of the area and other islands  He also took many photographs of the civilian population of New Guinea  There were about 1,000 other men stationed on the island off New Guinea where he was based (8:50) Back to US  After working in New Guinea William was an instructor in Florida for a few months teaching photography and skeet sharp shooting  William also worked with the Australian government on intelligence maps of the Pacific  He enjoyed working with Australia and was able to take a few trips there  William later opened his own western store and continued skeet shooting  He became a professional skeet sharp shooter and won many awards  William learned many survival skills while in the Navy � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PetersonW Title A name given to the resource Peterson, William (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Peterson, William Description An account of the resource William Peterson was born on May 1, 1924 and enlisted in the Navy for 3 years of active duty during WWII. He was stationed in New Guinea where he worked taking aerial photographs for making maps and also taking photographs of the civilian population. After his time in New Guinea, William worked as an instructor for a few months in Florida teaching photography and skeet sharp shooting. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource VanDenBerge, Austin (Interviewer) Forest Hills Eastern High School (Ada, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-06-05 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives