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                    <text>My God…Why?
From the series: The Seven Words From the Cross
Text: Mark 15:34
Richard A. Rhem
Christ Community Church
Spring Lake, Michigan
Lent IV, March 13, 1994
Transcription of the spoken sermon

"My	&#13;  God,	&#13;  my	&#13;  God,	&#13;  why	&#13;  have	&#13;  you	&#13;  forsaken	&#13;  me?	&#13;  Mark	&#13;  15:34	&#13;  
My God why? The fundamental central question of our human existence. And it is
the fourth word from the cross. Actually, for Mark and Matthew where it is
recorded, it is the only word from the cross. But when we combine the four
gospels, as we are doing during the Lenten season, then tradition has ordered
them in such fashion that it becomes the fourth word. Luke and John decided not
to use this word, although they had the tradition from which it was taken. Were
they somewhat frightened by the cry? Was it too strong? Was the darkness too
great? Would they soften the sharp reality of that cry which pierced the night
noontime? Whatever their reasons, at least from Mark and from Matthew these
words are recorded, "My God, My God, why hath thou forsaken me?"
During this Lenten journey we're taking a special angle on the traditional words
from the cross. We've noted that it's not as though there was a court reporter
down at the base of the cross recording words that came from the lips of Jesus,
but rather that the evangelists selected these particular words and placed them
on Jesus’ lips, in order to give us insight into their own particular understanding
of the meaning of Jesus' death.
These words are simply windows. From the respective evangelists these words
are the windows through which we can see how they understood what was
happening when Jesus died. And so what was Mark telling us by recording this
awful cry, "My God, why?" It is the primal scream that arises involuntarily from
the human heart in the midst of the cauldron of human suffering from time
immemorial. But the cry itself, the phrase, Jesus didn't invent, nor did Mark, for
it's a citation from Psalm 22. Psalm 22 is an anguished cry. It begins with those
words, "My God, My God, why hath thou forsaken me?" There are some who say
that what Mark is doing is reflecting the idea that Jesus was attempting to route
this Psalm. If you would read Psalm 22 to its conclusion, you would find that,
while it begins in deepest darkness and is a cry of human anguish, nonetheless, if
you follow through to the end, the light breaks through. At its conclusion there is
vindication and deliverance and praise to God.
© Grand Valley State University

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�My God…Why?

Richard A. Rhem

Page 2	&#13;  

There are interpreters who say that that's what Mark is telling us; but I can't
really accept that because, if that's what Mark is telling us, then those to whom he
wrote would have had to know that he was citing a Psalm, and there is no
indication that that would have been true. Most of Mark's listeners would not
have been well educated in the scripture readings. And his listeners would have
had to know how the Psalm ended, would have to really know the whole Psalm. If
you stop to think about it for a moment, if Mark's telling us that Jesus was
reciting a Psalm that ended in trust and vindication, then what he would be
conveying would be precisely the opposite of what he actually conveys with the
actual words he uses: "My God, My God, why?" That is a cry of dereliction, of
desolation, a shriek of horror, a wail in the darkness. That's what comes through.
That's the picture. No, I don't think it was simply the beginning of a long
recitation, I think it was borrowing the Psalm's opening cry of deepest anguish.
There is another very common, classic, traditional theological interpretation of
the cry as well. Some of you may remember the old communion liturgy that
speaks about Jesus on the cross bearing the wrath of God for us. That on the
cross, when he cried, "My God, My God, why hath thou forsaken me?" he was
forsaken of God that we might never be forsaken. Well, wherever you might go in
scripture in support of that idea, you will have to grant me that it's not in Mark.
That is a theological interpretation laid on the passage. It's not in the passage
itself. No, No, I think what we have here is one crying out a fundamental central
question of our human existence. In the extremity of human suffering, which
knows no explanation, the cry is, "My God, My God, why hath thou forsaken me?"
Mark is picturing for us Jesus in the most profound suffering, crying out at the
silence of heaven as his whole life in ministry is being contradicted. For it was not
simply death against which Jesus was railing but the fact that in his death,
everything for which he had lived seemed to be over. His strong proclamation of
the nearness of God in grace, of the open accessibility of God to all, excluding
none, of the presence of God in his presence at table fellowship, in his touch of
compassion for those who were sick, in his incarnation of that gracious Presence
of God whom he addressed in the intimacy of "Abba," the address that a child
would use for a loving and trusted parent. Such intimacy had characterized his
whole life. Even in the garden, even when three times over he prays, if it be thy
will let this cup pass from me, even there it's "Abba." But not now, not here. Here
it's "Eloi." Here it's God. The intimate communion is broken you see. He is
abandoned. Heaven is silent. He is in utter despair.
And he raises the question. Thank God he raises the question. A primal scream
from the depths. It is an involuntary exclamation. Thank God Mark tells us that
Jesus said, "My God, Why?" because that legitimizes the question you see. That
means that there is human experience for which there is nothing to say but
"Why?" Not an intellectual question looking for an answer, but the cry of a
breaking heart looking for succor: "My God, Why?" That is a valid human
experience. The bible tells us so. Jesus tells us so.

© Grand Valley State University

�My God…Why?

Richard A. Rhem

Page 3	&#13;  

That cry has become more poignant to me this Lent than ever before because my
friend Arie Brouwer died in October. You know Arie Brouwer. He's been in this
congregation. As Executive Secretary of the Reformed Church, he dedicated this
sanctuary in 1978. He preached for us a couple of years ago. He was a classmate
of mine, a colleague in ministry over many years. Moving from The Reformed
Church to The World Council of Churches in Geneva to the National Council of
Churches of Christ in this country, he was a born leader, a significant churchman,
a believing Christian servant of Christ.
In December of 1992, cancer was discovered. In October of 1993 he died. And a
year ago during Lent he preached on the seven words from the cross. He tells a
story in one of his sermons about coming from New York and a hospital
examination after surgery where his son Steven asked, "Dad, you mentioned
living by faith, what does that mean?" And he said, "Well Steve, I've had a love
affair with God all my life, and I'm not going to let cancer come between God and
me." And Steve said, "You and Mom have given your whole lives to the ministry
of the church and to the kingdom of God. This seems like a strange way to repay
you." And then Arie heard himself saying to his son, "Steve, I don't think that God
wants me to have cancer. But I don't think God can do anything about it." And he
said, "I know that that challenges something I've always believed about the
almightiness of God, but I've been so busy with survival issues that I haven't been
able to think about it. But I am going to think about it, and I can hardly wait until
I preach on the fourth word from the cross."
And when he preached that sermon in Glenrock Community Church in New
Jersey just a year ago you could tell that he could hardly wait to get to the sermon
because it had become his own existential quest, his wrestling in the dark in the
midst of cancer, struggling with his question, "My God, My God, why?" He tells
how he picked up the book by Rabbi Kushner. If you were here twelve years ago
during Passion week, holy week, I treated When Bad Things Happen To Good
People. Rabbi Kushner had lost a child and had gone through deep personal
tragedy. Arie found himself coming to the same conclusion that Rabbi Kushner
had come to: God is good. God is full of love but God cannot change this
situation. The almightiness of God. Because Kushner had said, in classic logic, "If
God is almighty, and will not change it, God cannot be good. If God is good and
would change it but cannot, then I have to rethink who God is."
In the midst of his cancer struggle this was the process through which my friend
Arie was also struggling. He went to the Bible. He found out that almightiness is
spoken of God ten times in the New Testament but nine of them appear in the
book of Revelation. And the book of Revelation, as you know, is a book about the
end time, the end of history. It confirmed Arie's conviction, as he wrestled with
his question in a very personal way, that God's love and light will ultimately
triumph, but that in the meantime there is no tinkering with the process of
history. Whether it be God's self-limitations or however you want to explain it.
And as he saw Jesus saying, "Why?" in the darkness, with the heavens sealed, his

© Grand Valley State University

�My God…Why?

Richard A. Rhem

Page 4	&#13;  

own experience was illuminated. And he was convinced that he must change his
understanding of God in order to have God, that Loving Presence, with him in the
darkness.
I almost hesitated to preach on this word having heard my friend speak out of the
anguish of his own dark night. It made me realize how facile is so much pulpit
work. So much prattle. It is one thing to talk about the will of God and about the
mystery of human suffering when one is healthy and all is well. It is another thing
to speak out of the fiery furnace. As I reflected on the experience of my friend, I
recognized the value of a Christian formation and the danger of it, and the
inadequacy of it. Oh, a Christian formation is valuable. When cancer struck and
Arie faced his mortality, he had a tradition to which to turn. He was steeped in it.
He had been taught from a child. He had lived in the faith, in the church, in the
community of God's people. He had a tradition of faith to which to turn, to test, to
plumb. Obviously, we need to tell our children. Obviously we need to nurture our
adolescents, giving them a place to stand, a compass for their lives. Obviously we
all need a reason for the hope that is within us. We need to be able to speak of the
things we believe and the things by which we live and for which we live. There is
value in that.
What a precious gift to be deeply steeped in a strong tradition of faith. But there
is a danger too. The danger is that my understanding of the faith will be, in my
mind, identical with the God to whom it points. The danger of a strong
traditioning in the faith is that I will see my faith understanding as the absolute
truth, rather than a relative grasp of something that is far beyond my grasp. The
danger of a strong Christian tradition is that I will come to a moment, as Arie
came, when I am face to face with an idea, a conception that no longer works.
Then if I have identified my idea of God with God, as though the two were
absolutely identical, then if my idea crashes, my God crashes. If I have failed to
recognize that all of my catechisms and creeds and confessions are stammering,
stumbling, human attempts to express what is beyond expression, to apprehend
what is incomprehensible, if I don't know that my best wisdom and insight is a
partial piece of a larger puzzle, then, when I come into the crunch and it doesn't
work, I will be afraid not simply that my formulation needs reworking, but that
my God is gone.
Arie went through that experience. He told how, throughout all of his ministry
he'd thought about these things, as we all do. And he had tried to rationalize the
problem by making a distinction between the prescriptive will of God and the
permissive will of God. Now it's a neat scheme. The prescriptive will of God says
these are the things God wills, and the permissive will of God is about the things
that God does not will but allows. That can work in some situations. He tells,
however, that shortly before preaching that sermon a year ago he saw Billy
Graham interviewed by David Frost. Arie knew Billy Graham and respected him.
He had crossed paths with him many times. David Frost was pressing Billy
Graham. He said to him, "What do you say to a parent whose child has born

© Grand Valley State University

�My God…Why?

Richard A. Rhem

Page 5	&#13;  

severely handicapped, or what do you say about your own Parkinson's disease?"
And Arie heard Billy Graham give this distinction between the things that God
wills and the things that God allows, adding, "When I see God, I'll have a lot of
questions." With great passion Arie reacted, "Billy it just won't do! If you tell me
you've got good news from God about all kinds of lesser things but when it comes
right down to the center of my existence you have no news, it just won't do. It
won't do for me anymore because it won't do anymore for those who love me."
Fortunately, Arie was one who was open and growing and who could look his
faith formulations in the face and say, "that won't work anymore. I've got to break
through that and move beyond that." Fortunately, he was one who had learned
the truth of the poet who penned these words: "Our little systems have their day,
they have their day and cease to be. They are but broken lights of thee, and thou,
Oh Lord, are more than they." But unless one is open and growing, strong faith
formation can be dangerous when you get in the crunch. The finest gift I could
give you would be if you hear me, if you could learn from me, if you could receive
from me, that you ought to trust God with all your heart, and hold all of your
convictions lightly. But an inherited faith, valuable though it is and dangerous
though it can become, is finally inadequate. If I have only that which has been
given to me, if I have a system of faith, a creedal confessional background,
assumptions untested, simply absorbed, they'll not do it for me in the darkness.
Finally, one must own one's own faith convictions, and that will not come apart
from concrete human experience. If I have a set of truths that I have to impress
upon my experience in order that I may understand my experience, I'm in deep
trouble. It is rather out of an honest living of my experience that I come to reflect
on the tradition that has been given to me and then make it my own through
reformulation and new insight. Secondhand faith will not do it for you in a crisis.
Somebody else's convictions and conclusions will not allow you to float in the
storm.
Finally, I must believe what I really believe. I like Mark's gospel. I'm grateful that
Mark brought Jesus to his last breath with no shout of triumph, no light breaking
through, just simply the awful question, "My God, why?" because that's honest.
That's the way it is all too often, for all too many. But if that's Jesus last word in
Mark's portrayal, it's not God's last word. For following Good Friday dawned
Easter Sunday.
I mentioned Arie’s funeral in December during Advent. He had become
fascinated with Greek Orthodox liturgy and the music of worship of the Eastern
Rite. And the funeral service began with a long prelude of entrance music and
then the service ensued. The point at which we would come to the committal
service, dust to dust, ashes to ashes, there was once again the entrance music. I
thought perhaps it was a mistake until I realized that the first entrance music was
the entrance into the presence of God in worship, and the second entrance music
pointed to the entrance of my brother into light eternal. As the congregation was

© Grand Valley State University

�My God…Why?

Richard A. Rhem

Page 6	&#13;  

acknowledging dust to dust, God was saying, "Good and faithful servant, enter
into the joy of your Lord.” No easy solution this side of the final breath. But there
is light beyond, thank God.

© Grand Valley State University

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explore the world of
consensual power
exchange and
BDSM/Kink

@
For more information, contact the
LGBT Resource Center at
lgbtcenter@gvsu.edu

Monday, February 10th
4 p.m. - 2215/2216 Kirkhof Center

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been a struggle for me though since I am a parent to a kindergartener, and I had to
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got to stay in our office with an adjusted schedule, while others were either redeployed
to register in the Emergency Department or work in other departments. As far as
shopping has gone, my mom is the one who does that. Somehow, she always managed to
find all of the products that we needed. We’ve never had to worry about running out of
cleaning products or toilet paper, which given the hoarding of the toilet paper has been a
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                    <text>West Michigan
Women's Studies Council
Presents:

WENDY
WASSERSTEIN
Pulitzer Prize and
Tony Award winning playwright

My Life in
the Theatre
Thursday
November 4, 2004
7:30 p.m.
Talk to be followed by
a reception and book signing

St. Cecilia Music Society
Royce Auditorium
24 Ransom Avenue NE
Downtown Grand Rapids

FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC
For more information call
GVSU Women 's Center (616) 33 1-2748
MI C ~

M edia

Sponsor

~-

RAD I 0

l'lt111!) I Iii Ill[

I I \\ I "-: l 'C lHI

\, •Ill".

( , •Ill&lt; .I

1111 hls:I r-,11 l~l/

�</text>
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                    <text>William (Bill) Myers
(1:00:22)
(0:19)
 Born in Chicago in 1928 March 18
(0:34)
 His Father died when he was ten years old and his mother died when he was
eleven
(0:40)
 His Aunt and Uncle brought him and his three sisters to Michigan
(0:52)
 His aunt and uncle adopted him and his 3 sisters
o Name changed from Paul to Myers
(0:59)
 Grand Rapids, Michigan
o Spent most of his life in Grand Rapids
(1:08)
 He joined the Merchant Marine
(1:21)
 His cousins and friends joined the Navy during World War II
o He wanted to join too but he was too young
(1:36)
 He looked around and found out that he could join the Merchant Marines at 16
(1:46)
 Sent to Sheepshead Bay and Hoffman Island in New York Haror for radio school
(2:14)
 Boot camp for merchant marine was run by the Navy
o Couldn’t have armed rifles due to international law
o They used sticks and brooms to practice
o Training was very similar to Navy training
 Obstacle course, water jumping, etc
(3:22)
 It was a big adventure to all of the guys many were 18 or younger
 They did not realize the danger that they would be in once they got out of basic
(3:30)
 Radio school was hard because he was only 16 and did not have a very strong
educational background
o He only had up to 10th grade at Creston High School
(3:47)
 The training involved a lot of mathematics
(4:37)
 Worked as a propeller hauler during the summer
o He studied Algebra while doing this
o He didn’t do well with math at Creston High School, but did very well on
his own when he had the proper motivation

�(5:06)
 Told he had to pass a test to get into the radio school because he was too young
o He passed the test because he studied very hard for it
(5:32)
 He was taught Morse Code
o It was easier because he had a music background
 He played the Harmonica
(5:55)
 He passed the code test
o Technical part: radio transmitters, theory of radio, rules &amp; regulations of
international communication, and other currencies
o Main thing was how to decipher code books
 All messages were in codes
 Took hours to decipher the codes sometimes
(6:59)
 Took three radio operators 8 hours to decipher the messages detailing the end of
the World War
(7:15)
 He was in radio school for 6 months
(7:24)
 He had tests every week to test progress
o If they passed the would spend the weekend in New York City
(8:06)
 He went roller-skating a lot
o New York City looked like a Metropolis compared to Grand Rapids
(8:29)
 Couldn’t make a lot of friends due to the intensive studying
o Dire need for radio operatives at the time
 Needed 3 radio operators on every ship
(9:38)
 Got up around 5:30 am, clean up, march to breakfast, start class around 8 am until
night, then did homework
o It was an intense program which was shortened in length due to the high
demand
(10:25)
 Never sent to a ship to practice the radio
(10:48)
 April 1945 he graduated
(10:58)
 First sent out on the SS John W. McKay from Mobile, Alabama
(11:15)
 In Central Caribbean he was headed for Okinawa when war with Germany ended
(11:20)
 Had a lot of messages to decipher

�o Had messages detailing end of the war with Germany, but they were to
continue with orders to the Pacific
(11:57)
 They had no concern for U-boats
o Mostly concerned about crossing the Pacific in a convoy
(12:15)
 John W. McKay was a liberty ship
o He was mostly stationed on liberty ships through his military career
(12:28)
 Liberty Ships were built post haste
o Could be finished building 1 in 2 days
 Henry Kaiser designed and engineered them
 Accommodations were not bad, they were slower than most ships
o Victory ships were much faster
(13:14)
 They were produced en masse, made almost 200 liberty ships
 Liberty ships delivered almost all of the military supplies for the entire war
o Delivered cargo to Europe and Far East under the Marshall Plan after the
war as well
(13:44)
 First voyage was an adventure
o Went through the Panama Canal and into the Pacific in a convoy
(14:10)
 He was in the Caroline Islands
o Almost 1000 ships mustering there
o Preparing for an invasion of Okinawa
(14:24)
 The island was necessary for the land invasion of Japan
(14:32)
 Could listen to music as a radio operative
o He loved Tokyo Rose as well as the other shipmates
(15:44)
 Navy Gunman would send up black balloons to practice shooting
o They never hit anything
(16:17)
 Got caught in a typhoon en route to Okinawa
o It was his first experience in bad weather
(16:42)
 They were transporting a makeshift airport and folding aircraft
o The lines securing the cargo during the storm broke
 He had to help secure them
 Nobody got hurt
 It was an amazing sight to see/experience
(17:32)
 Sent to Manilla, Shell Harbor

�o The Japanese submarines were the threat, not the air force
(18:25)
 Liberty ships that were sent ahead of their boat were torpedoed by Japanese Uboats
o He ship was not when they went through the same area
(18:54)
 It took them 6 weeks to unload the cargo
o Tied up to a sunken Japanese ship
 They were sent back to the States once they were unloaded
(19:25)
 A lot of ships were loading and unloading at the bay
o Lots of ships were diverted to Manila because Okinawa (after the victory)
couldn’t support the ships
(19:58)
 They were given a course through the Philippines once cargo was emptied
(20:19)
 The port authority wouldn’t give the ship food due to rationing in Manila
(23:32)
 The ship hit an unmarked coral reef
o Navy sent a ship to haul them off and check the ship over
 Took 4 days
(24:22)
 While heading to the Panama Canal, the war with Japan ended
o They also ran out of food before they reached the canal
(24:33)
 The cook kneaded bugs into what was left of the flour to make bread
(25:11)
 The end of the war was an amazing celebration
(25:20)
 They were diverted to Chile
(25:28)
 They loaded up copper ore that was going to be delivered to Savannah, Georgia
 They were sent straight to Chile
o Spent three weeks in Chile and celebrated the end of the war there
(26:58)
 Decided to stay with the merchant marines delivering cargo all over the world
after the war to help rehabilitate the nations
(27:12)
 He went to Italy, China, Japan, Canada, all over the US, South America, South
Africa, Costa Rico, and the Philippines
(28:11)
 In Italy the was had devastated the area around Rome
o Italians were not adapt at cleaning up
o He toured Rome while there
(29:34)

� He went to Genoa and Savona to drop off cargo
(30:38)
 Saw military and the devastated areas
(31:51)
 In North Africa there was a different situation
o They were French protectorates
 He went to a dance
 The girls wouldn’t dance wth the Americans, only the British
o Eisenhower had bombed that area, and the Germans never bombed them,
they had anger towards the Americas
 He did not see any Arabs
(34:48)
 He went to the Philippines
o He drank here
o Asked to go to a Philippines Independence party
 Very friendly towards Americans
o They picked up copper ore and tobacco during stay
(37:58)
 Went through the Indian Ocean
(38:21)
 He attended yearly reunions
 Talked a lot about his sea adventures
o Good memories
(38:36)
 Two trips to Shanghai, China
o The area changed drastically from his first visit to his second
o It had been a very modern but primitive setting before
 One of the best movie theatres he had ever been too
 Large contrast between luxury and poverty
(40:14)
 Would throw garbage overboard
o People would sift through their garbage
 They shipped lumber to Shanghai
o They worried it would go to the communists
(41:46)
 6 weeks after they left China from the second voyage, the communists took over
o Rise in currency exchange rate
(47:15)
 Many Japanese were angry that America occupied and bombed their country
(48:27)
 Ate in the officers lounge
o Only friends were other officers
 Due to association
o Liked the navigate the ship
(49:43)

�

Officers were friendly, met lots of people from New Orleans, various
backgrounds
o Went crawfishing with people New Orleans after he retired

(52:05)
 Not many people left after the war was over
o Not many people came in after the war ended either
o They closed the radio school once the war was over
(52:59)
o Need for ships in the merchant marines was dwindling and many liberty ships
were being scraped, needed less radio men
o It became harder to find jobs on ships as radiomen
(54:50)
o Couldn’t support his girlfriend on the merchant marine salary
(55:01)
o He married when he was 23
(55:07)
o He took a job with the US Tobacco Company
o Put up advertisements, samples and such
(55:51)
o He never thought about going to college
(56:04)
o He bought a store in Benton Harbor
o His wife did not want to leave her job in Grand Rapids
(56:24)
o He sold his store, lost half of his money
(56:30)
o William P. Lear, worked in his engineering model shop
o He was promoted to an engineer without a degree
(56:52)
o He made a few patents
o He became a contract engineer
o Worked for 14 compnaies
o He wanted the experience
(57:36)
o With out a degree, he feels that he did very well for himself
(57:49)
o He grew up in the Merchant Marines and became a man
o He learned a lot about the world
o Amazing to see how much things were devastated by the war

�</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
(51:31)
Johnnie Myles
Background information (00:16)

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

Born in Natchez, Mississippi, in 1929. (00:18)
Part of his family lived in Mississippi and part of it lived in Louisiana (00:54)
His family was mostly farmers working primarily share cropping. (1:05)
His mother passed when he was 5 months old. He was then raised by his aunt in Natchez.
He lived with 2 boys and 2 girls. (1:24)
Attended Catholic school in Mississippi through elementary school. (2:16)
He was later removed from Catholic school and placed in public school in the 8 grade. He
was ahead of his class when he began to attend public school. (2:36)
The Catholic school he attended had white nuns for teachers, but the students were
primarily black. (4:33)
He attended school through the 10 grade. He was 16 when he left school and volunteered
for the armed forces. (5:40)
Due to his age, Johnnie needed consent form his legal guardians before he could go into the
service. (6:15)
He had family in the military. This inspired him to also enlist in the armed forces. (6:50)
He wanted to be a soldier like other members of his family. (7:30)
At age 17 in 1946 Johnnie was enlisted in the Army. (8:26)
th

th

Basic Training (8:40)



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He was then sent to Fort Sam Houston. (8:44)
Due to his selection of the medical corps he was sent to school for extra training. (9:30)
Basic training included a lot of marching. (9:49)
During his basic training the military was not yet intergraded. His training unit was all black
including the drill sergeants. (10:08)
When he arrived at Fort Sam Huston there were some men there who were waiting to be
discharged who had served during World War II. (11:26)

Desegregation of the Military (11:43)



Desegregation of the military was ordered while Johnnie was at Fort Sam Houston for basic
training. (11:43)
His unit was chosen to be one of the first to be broken up and desegregated. His unit, the
25th Infantry Regiment, was broken up and placed into the 15 Infantry Division, which was
desegregated. (12:00)
The desegregation required some adjusting and was “touchy” at first. Over the all, unit was
united as one over time. (12:43)
When the unit was allowed to go into town and leave the base, the blacks and whites rarely
socialized with one another. (13:27)
th




�


The Fort did put forth efforts to east the tension of the desegregated unit. (13:58)
He was still a medical aide when placed in the 15 Division. (14:40)
th

Basic Training cont. (14:45)







He was trained on how to apply bandages and recognize specific wounds. (14:50)
He was trained to work in a field hospital. (15:15)
The men were given medical supplies and a helmet with a red cross but no weapons. (15:55)
He served at Fort Sam Houston (16:16)
The men he served with were from all over the nation. (16:50)
There was a stark contrast between soldiers from the north and soldiers from the south.
Soldiers from the north were much less accepting of segregation that existed in southern
society. (17:23)

Service at Fort Belvoir Virginia. (18:30)












He was reassigned to the 92 Transport Battalion. He was still a medic. (18:39)
At this base there was a total mixture of black and white soldiers. (19:27)
Here, Johnnie served as a medical technician. (20:30)
He mostly preformed simple first aid at this Fort. If there was a serious injury the individual
would be transferred to a hospital. (21:33)
He would often travel to Washington when given a pass. He believes the segregation in the
capital was equally as bad as in Mississippi. (22:33)
The treatment of segregation was not seen as an oddity to Johnnie due to his exposure to it
during his childhood in the south. (23:21)
Blacks from the north where often easily frustrated with the lack of freedom available to
blacks in the south. (24:10)
He originally enlisted for 3 years. He was discharged in 1949 (24:33)]
After having been discharged, Johnnie attended trade school in Natchez on the GI Bill.
(26:00)
He lived with his aunt and uncle, however, attended school for 6-7 hours a day. (26:47)
After having completed his schooling, he got a job in a cobbler shop in Natchez. He held this
job for 18 months. (27:30)
nd

Reenlistment in the Army (29:21)


In 1952, he reenlisted in the Army (28:21)



He reenlisted due to his interest in having more experiences in other places aside from his
home town in Mississippi. (28:35)
He was then sent to Arkansas. Here he was an administrative man in a military hospital.
(29:16)
At this time (1952) he was a Tech Sergeant. (29:44)




�







The pay was better than what he maed while working in the shoe shop. (30:36)
Before working in Arkansas, he had gotten married. He was given a special quarters where
married personnel were stationed. (31:03)
The hospital he was employed in did serve badly wounded soldiers [the Korean War was
going on at the time] who needed increased time to recover. (31:44)
Being a sergeant and working in the administrative part of the hospital, he had approx. 4-5
workers under him. These men were not all black. (32:37)
Integration at this time (approx. 1953) was much more accepted. However in the Southern
states, some still struggled. (33:00)
During his second enlistment (1952-1958) he spent his entire service in Arkansas. (53:19)
The army only allowed so many dependents per soldier. After he became married and had
kids Johnnie had too many dependents. (36:18)

Life after Service (37:00)






After leaving the service, Johnnie moved to Grand Rapids Michigan. (37:01)
In Grand Rapids Michigan he started 2 shoe shops. (37:53)
He did not buy a home but did buy a shop. (38:59)
He worked in the shoe business for almost 30 years in Grand Rapids Michigan (approx.
1959-1989). (39:42)
He fathered 4 girls and 1 boy who later served in the Marines. (40:48)

Thoughts on service (41:20)







He believes he received a lot of education as a result of his military experience. (41:23)
He made long term friends as a result of his military service. (43:05)
He met one of the Tuskegee Airmen. (44:00)
He was at Fort Benning, Georgia before the military was desegregated. (45:21)
After the military was desegregated, the black soldiers where given better facilities. (46:50)
He went into the military at a young age (17) and was able to learn how to be an adult as a
result of his military experience. (49:07)

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                    <text>Mystery Embodied
From the series: Aspects of God
Text: Exodus 25:8; I John 4:16; John 1:14
Richard A. Rhem
Christ Community Church
Spring Lake, Michigan
June 21, 1998
Transcription of the spoken sermon
With the Pentecost storm, we had to move Pentecost up to a week later, which
was Trinity Sunday, which made Trinity Sunday a week later, which meant that
my series on Aspects of God would have three aspects collapsed into two. But,
you can bet I’ll get them all in.
Last week we spoke about that aspect of God as Mystery, the ultimate Mystery of
everything beyond our knowing, beyond the possibility of our knowing. There
was a phrase in one of our hymns this morning which spoke about the cloud of
unknowing that comes from a Christian, mystic, medieval time. The cloud of
unknowing. Entering into the cloud of unknowing is to experience God, Mystery,
not in the sense that eventually we’ll figure it out if we keep working at it long
enough, but Mystery as that which is beyond human comprehension or the
capacity of the human mind to get itself around.
Last week we talked about Mystery Experienced, because that ultimate mystery of
everything is experienced. There is that seemingly universal human experience of
the Ultimate, of that Mystery, that ultimate mystery that we cannot comprehend
but yet which we sense, experience, which we say is none other than the breath of
God or the Spirit of God, so, that Ultimate Mystery is experienced.
Today I want to say that that Ultimate Mystery has also been embodied. Last
week we looked at Moses in that interesting story where he says to God, "Don’t
lead this people up if You won’t go along," and God says, "I’ll go along." Then,
Moses, emboldened, says, "Show me your glory," and God says, "No way, Moses.
You can’t see my glory. That would blow you away. Get into this cleft in the rock
and I’ll put my hand over you and I’ll pass all my goodness past you and you’ll see
my backside. But, you can’t see my glory."
We also listened to the conversation between Phillip and Jesus where Jesus was
talking about going to the Father and Phillip said, "Oh, just show us the father
and we’ll be satisfied." And Jesus said, "You don’t get it yet. You can’t see the

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Richard A. Rhem

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Mystery. You’ll never penetrate the Mystery, but if you’ve seen me, you have seen
the Father."
That is today’s emphasis. That is the aspect I would stress today, and I want to
say that every religion needs some concretization; every religion needs something
to hang on to, something concrete, something to give that Mystery specificity and
directionality.
The little child that was baptized in the beautiful little kimono - I was thinking
about the Buddhist temple. The Buddhists understand that God is Mystery better
than we could ever begin to, because their whole tradition is based on the idea of
the void. God as the void. Emptiness. For them to try to put some concrete shape
to that or some content to that is to deny the core of their religious understanding
which is God as the emptiness or the void. But they need a temple, too, and they
use beautiful little kimonos for children and they bless the children, and the
temples are places for meditation because every human religion needs
concretization.
The Incarnation of Jesus Christ and what the Christian tradition has done with it
philosophically has been an offense to the Jews because Judaism at its core is
monotheistic and it has seen in the deification of the son an idolatry mixing with
God Who is absolute and ultimate. But, as a matter of fact, if we could stick to the
New Testament data itself, there should not really be a problem for Judaism,
because they themselves also recognize the need for that concretization,
something that you can get your hands around.
Going back to the story of Moses, in that conversation on the mountain, God says,
"Build me a sanctuary," the word that comes from the root word to mean holy. In
other words, that which is set part. Create for me a sacred space. And do it in
order that I may dwell in the midst of my people. And that word to dwell in
Hebrew is really to pitch a tent, literally. And it’s very interesting that in Exodus
in the founding story of Israel you have the tension that was within Israel’s faith
all along. It is that tension between the need for the sense of the abiding presence
of God and yet the refusal to say that God can become a permanent possession set
in stone, that God can become domesticated by the cultic actions of a priesthood.
The freedom of God to be there was always guarded in Israel, and yet, they
understood that God would dwell with them and they needed that tabernacle in
their midst, that tent. God would pitch God’s tent in the midst of the community
in order that there might be a place for this Holy One Who was not just easily
accessible, yet always there as a sign of the abiding presence of God, the
constancy and the faithfulness of God, the God Who led them out of Egypt, the
God Who would go through the wilderness with them, the God Who would bring
them into the Promised Land. In the sixth century B.C. when they have been
taken from their land and brought to Babylon and given up on God and lost their
faith, some prophet comes to them and says, "Remember our founding story. Our

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God is a God who is mobile and light. He pitches his tent. He goes with his
people. God is here in exile as God was there in Jerusalem and the temple."
So, Israel, too, had that tangibility of God because we share with Judaism and
Islam the idea of God as absolute Mystery, yet present in Spirit. But there is then
this nuance that distinguishes Christian faith - it is that Mystery experienced
spiritually is given a human face. It is that which makes Christian faith what it is.
You could have a mystery and you can sense the mystery, but what is its nature?
Or, what is the nature of God? It is so critically important that we have the proper
conception of God because the God we worship will shape the lives we lead. Tell
me who your God is and I’ll tell you the kind of person you are. And I want to say
this morning that that Mystery in our faith’s story has been embodied because,
just as God pitched a tent in the wilderness with God’s people, so according to the
Christian gospel, John now, the first chapter, that word that was with God, that
created intention of God, became flesh in the face of Jesus Christ. (Jews writing
now, as Jesus was a Jew.) That God Who dwelt in the midst of the people in a
tent that was pitched in the wilderness now pitched a tent in human flesh, for the
same word is used. The word was made flesh and dwelt among us. It could be
literally translated, "The word was made flesh and tabernacled in our midst." God
went camping. God in the tent, now the tent being the shape of a human person.
And there was no denying all of Israel’s faith from which this little Jesus
movement stemmed. They said the Torah came through Moses. The gift of Torah
was a gift of God, a previous gift of God. But, grace and truth came to expression
in Jesus. And those words, the words behind grace and truth are two of the most
beautiful words in the Hebrew Bible - hesed, steadfast love, limitless mercy, and
emet - truth, but better, faithfulness to covenant promises. In Jesus, says John,
the God of Israel has taken the shape, the human form that has communicated
the glory of God. That which Moses wanted to see has now become veiled in flesh,
a tangible concretization of the nature of that mystery that we cannot fathom but
which in the good pleasure of God has taken a shape, then given a face. So, the
nature of the mystery is love. That’s what a writer of the same Johannine circles
concluded, the first letter of John, the fourth chapter. He says no one has ever
seen God. That’s always the problem, isn’t it? "Just show us the father," says
Phillip. "Show me your glory," says Moses.
The writer says no one has ever seen God. But God sent Jesus Christ, and on the
basis of the sending of Jesus Christ, what came to expression there is that God is
love. And, he says, "The one who abides in love, abides in God, and God abides in
that one. He does not say "Abide in God," because how can we abide in God? We
can’t get a handle on that. What would we do, challenged to abide in God? But, to
abide in love, to love one another, that’s tangible and concrete. I can do that. And
then, does he say, given the love of God, God so loved us, then we ought to love
God? No. God, having so loved us, we ought to love one another. And miracle of
miracles, when we begin to love one another, on the basis of that revelation which
says that God is love and therefore, having loved us, we ought to love one

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another, miracle of miracles, when we do that in relationship, in community, God
is there! And the Mystery becomes experienced in a new and fresh way.
And if you want one more marvelous text from II Corinthians, third chapter, Paul
says that where the spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom, and we, beholding as in
a mirror the image of that face, are being transformed into that same image
through the spirit of God.
You see, the Mystery has been embodied. The Mystery has a face and, beholding
that face by the ministry of the Spirit of God, the breathing of the Mystery in us,
we are being shaped into that same face. Because what the embodying of the
Mystery is all about is to give us standards and norms by which to orient our
lives. What the mystery of the Trinity is all about is very practical living.
Beholding the face of Jesus and seeing therein that God is love, we are called to
be a people who love, affecting therefore attitudes, determining our actions,
suggesting those things to which we passionately commit ourselves. It makes all
the difference in the world. This is our story. This is what it means to be in the
Christian tradition. This is what it means to be in the Christian church.
It is to have that Ultimate Mystery of things experienced somehow inwardly,
shaped and defined by Jesus, and following in the way of Jesus. Then, I believe,
according to my story, that I am living with the grain of the universe, that I am
living out in the practical arenas of my life the intention of God, because God is
love. And that love, that mystery having come to expression in Jesus, shaping me
into that image by the Spirit of God, gives me a way to go, gives me a way to live,
it shows me what my values must be, it shows me that to which I must commit
myself, that about which I must be passionate. This is down-to-earth, practical
stuff.
What shapes our lives? What shapes our community? What kind of people are
we? Are we people of love, people of grace, people full of mercy, people ready to
forgive, people for reconciliation? Are we people who will love our enemies?
That’s what being Christian is all about. And it’s all about that because in our
story, that ultimate Mystery was embodied in Jesus who showed us the way.
I don’t have any proof for that. I don’t believe it because the church teaches it. I
don’t believe it because the Bible teaches it. I probably believe it because my
mother and father believed it. I probably do believe it because I’ve found it here. I
probably do believe it because my whole life has been lived in the Christian
community. But, I don’t believe it because my parents believe it. I don’t believe it
because the Bible teaches it. I don’t believe it because the church affirms it. I
believe it because, by God, it’s true.

© Grand Valley State University

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                    <text>Mystery Experienced
From the series: Aspects of God
Text: Numbers 33:23; Hebrews 1:2-3; John 14:16-17
Richard A. Rhem
Christ Community Church
Spring Lake, Michigan
June 14, 1998
Transcription of the spoken sermon
Our religions are the consequence of creative human imagining in response to
God’s revealing. God’s revealing, if it is revealing, indeed, meets in us now and
then with awareness, awareness of the wholly Other, and of the Holy Other, of
God, of the sacred, of the holy. The human experience has been that now and
again, to this one or that one, there is some breakthrough, some awareness, some
experience of that which is beyond human capability to grasp. Yet the experience,
the awareness will always result in a stumbling, stammering attempt to give
expression to that which was experience. And so, we have our human religions
with our statements, expressions, articulations of the truth as best we can bring it
to expression in light of our experience.
Last week, celebrating Pentecost one week late, we said that the experience of the
risen Christ, the living Lord, the foundational event of Christian faith was not the
experience of the word in flesh, but rather, the experience of Spirit, the Spirit of
Christ or the Spirit of God, the wind, the movement, the enlivening, creative
movement that gives us an awareness of that intimate relationship with God,
even though we can never adequately bring to expression that experience, but
rather do so in human language, always limited, stammering and stuttering
because we have been overwhelmed if we have met the living God.
The Sunday after Pentecost, which really was last week but celebrated here this
week, therefore tries to gather the experience of the Christian year, the cycle, on
this particular Sunday. Four Sundays before Christmas we begin with the Advent
season, the One who came is coming, the birth of Christ at Christmas, Epiphany,
Lent, Easter, Ascension, Pentecost and the gift of the Spirit, and then on that next
Sunday we say we believe in one God - God the Father, God the Son and God the
Holy Spirit, one God blessed forever, in traditional liturgical language. We speak
of God as Triune because we want to affirm that God is one. But, the experience
of God is trifold, and on this Sunday we simply point to that Christian
understanding of God as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit,
one God.

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Richard A. Rhem

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The early Church, the immediate followers of Jesus, did not sit down to construct
a mysterious doctrine by which to bewitch and confuse us. And the early Church
did not sit down to construct some mysterious idea of God that would confuse
generations ever after. They did what all people do who have religious experience
- they simply began to express what they had experienced. And the immediate
followers of Jesus, in the wake of his crucifixion and resurrection, were Jewish
people and they had no idea at all that they were talking about some other God
than the God of Israel. They were now not switching their loyalties; they were not
now conceiving of some other deity; they were not now leaving that covenant,
faithful God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob whose law came to expression with
Moses, who had been spoken of by the prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah and all the rest.
These were faithful Jewish people who were still dealing with the same God, but a
God now Who had been experienced, strangely enough, in the life of that Jesus
whom they had known. And then this Jesus was crucified but, in the wake of that,
nonetheless, they experienced his presence, as I said a moment ago, not in the
flesh. "The word was made flesh and dwelt among us." But, that was one thing.
This other Easter experience was something else. It was God in the Spirit, Jesus
in the Spirit. How do you give expression to that kind of mysterious, baffling
experience? And yet, how can you be silent if you have had that kind of intimate
experience of God?
The writers of the Hebrews said in many and various ways to our forbears, "God
made God’s self known. But in these last days, God has spoken to us by a son
who, he said, is the express image of God." The word used there is icon, and if you
have had any experience in the lush sanctuaries of Eastern Orthodox churches,
you have seen icons, those paintings of the head of Christ or some symbolism of
the Trinity or some saint. Eastern Orthodox piety and devotion has been
conditioned to have its consciousness raised and its spirit elevated through the
contemplation of the icon. Those of us that don’t know anything about it mock it
and say, "Well, that’s idolatry. Even the Heidelberg Catechism said God will not
be worshiped through pictures or dumb idols." Yet, there are those who, in
contemplation of that icon, find themselves lifted into the presence of God; it’s a
way of devotion or pious expression. The writer to the Hebrews says that Jesus
was the icon of God, the express image of God. He couldn’t have said anything
any more elevated of Jesus than to say that this Jesus in the flesh, the word made
flesh dwelling among us, this one was the very picture, the image, the expression
of God in human flesh.
I return again and again to old John 14, but it’s so revealing of that early
Christian community, trying to give expression to its experience. Now, don’t
think of the disciples sitting around together at a campfire with Jesus in the
midst. This Gospel writer was writing some sixty years later and probably
reflecting the oral tradition of the stories and the conversations and all of that,
and he said, "How can I say that this Jesus, as a matter of fact, was the unveiling

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of God?" And so, he pictures them in these middle chapters in John’s Gospel as a
conversation with Jesus where Jesus is getting them ready for his departure "Let not your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me,"
etc., etc.
"In my Father’s house there are many rooms. If it were not so, I would
have told you. I go to prepare a place for you," all of that nice language, and then Phillip who in the fourth Gospel plays the role
of dunce, raises the questions that we all have but feel too self-conscious to raise.
He says, "Oh, Jesus, I’ve really been wanting to say this all along. Just show us
the Father and we will be satisfied."
It’s what we all sigh at one time or another, don’t we? "God, if you’d just show
yourself. If somehow or other I could just get a handle on it, just a glimpse,
perhaps. Just a tickle in my pinkie."
Jesus says, "I’ve been with you so long and you still don’t know. If you’ve seen
me, you’ve seen the Father." This, now, is not what Jesus said. This is what they
said he would have said if he had said what they know to be true. Do you get the
difference? This was their experience, in his face there was God.
We tell the story and we’re going to keep telling the story because somehow or
other the God of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was there in that
flesh, his face, the human face of God. And so, they who had known Jesus in the
flesh knew him to be crucified, experienced him yet to be alive in the Spirit,
talked about God and they talked about Jesus as the face of God, and they talked
about the Spirit as the Spirit of God, and they had the "stuff" out of which
subsequent generations in subsequent centuries put together using Greek
philosophical concepts to say that God Who is Mystery has been known in
concrete human flesh and continues to be experienced spiritually through a focus
on Jesus who seems to bring up the depths of the mystery.
Today I want to say that Mystery, the aspect of God is Mystery, but Mystery
experienced, and Israel always knew that they didn’t know God in the depths of
God’s mystery. And the Christian tradition which took the God of Israel and put
the face of Jesus on the God of Israel and experienced the Spirit of God through
the mediation of Jesus, the early Church tacked that nuanced adjustment and
understanding of God onto the images and metaphors of Israel, and the images
and metaphors of God for Israel were Ruler, King, more intimately Father. But,
essentially Israel thought in terms of God as the Ruler "out there," "up there,"
engaged in their history and yet beyond their history, and they thought of God as
getting directly involved in human events, although as an imperial ruler removed.
That conception of God we speak of classically as "Theism." Judaism is theistic.
Islam is theistic. Christianity has traditionally been theistic. A theistic

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understanding of God, even though we say it is a triune God, having been present
in the flesh of Jesus and continuing to be present in the Spirit; nonetheless, God
is "out of here," "up there," beyond us, traditionally. And our Christian
understanding of God got attached to that kind of imagery, and the difficulty with
that imagery is that it doesn’t connect easily with what we know about the cosmic
reality of which our lives are a part.
The Episcopal Bishop, John Shelby Spong, Bishop of Newark, has just written a
book, Why Christianity Must Change or Die. Bishop Spong is courageous, if
nothing else, and he dares to challenge that theistic image of God, saying that
image of God is no longer adequate to express how we experience our world. He
says theism has to go. Well, it will go kicking and screaming; it will go with great,
great difficulty. I’ve been trying and trying for some time to divest my head of
theistic understanding and I can’t do it yet, but I’m working at it. I got a letter
Friday from Bishop Spong who said that in 1999 he has one full weekend
available and he’ll give it to us. November 12, 13 and 14 of 1999, Bishop Spong
will come here to help us to disengage from classical, traditional theistic
conceptions of God. So, mark it down now. He will follow in the fall of ‘99, when
in the spring of ‘99, we’ll have Marcus Borg here so that we can meet Jesus again
for the first time. And maybe as we continue to work at this we might be involved
in that advanced guerilla warfare that’s trying to find out how to say God in light
of everything else we experience, because you can just import the old images and
metaphors as long as you don’t want that God to be intimately involved in your
day-to-day experience.
As I said a moment ago, Israel knew that it didn’t know God. I think this is the
point of that old story, Moses in Exodus 33 saying to God, "I know you’re angry
with this people, but you know, if you’re not going, I’m not going." God says,
"Relax, I’m going." Moses said, "Otherwise, how will the other peoples of the
world know that we’re distinct?"
You see, Moses was into exclusivism a long time ago. He wanted to be distinct.
Don’t we all? We all like to be special. He said, "Well, one more thing, then - I’ll
go if you go. You say that you’ll go, but show me your glory."
God said, "Aha, Moses. I gave you my name, the Lord, Yahweh. I Am what I Am. I
will be where I will be. I will be there for you. I told you my name, but my glory
you cannot see. Moses, if I came bare before you, it would blow you away, it
would destroy you. You humankind, you cannot countenance, you couldn’t stand,
you couldn’t take in a raw exposure to my glory. Moses, come here and stand on a
rock next to me. What I’m going to do, Moses, is I’m going to pass all of my
goodness before you and I’m going to put you in a cleft of the rock, I’m going to
put my hand over you and all of my glory will pass by, and when it’s passed, I’ll
take my hand away and you can see my backside. Don’t even think about trying to
see my face. Don’t even think about trying to take in the mystery. But, I’ll hide

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you in a cleft of the rock and pass by, and you’ll get a glimpse after I’ve passed
by."
Some of you who are older remember an old hymn, "He Hideth My Soul in the
Cleft of the Rock" - "He hideth my soul in a dry, thirsty land and hideth my soul
in the depths of his love and covers me there with his hand." The experience of
God is that, in the experience of the terrors of life, we know that there’s a cleft in
the rock and God’s hand protectively covering because more than that we
couldn’t handle. And we can relax in the cleft of the rock with the hand of God
over us, knowing that, as we stammer to try to say something about that
experience, God will be just fine. God is not put in jeopardy when we start
messing with the images and metaphors. If we should someday in the year 2005,
after laboriously for seven or eight years working at this problem, if we don’t blow
ourselves apart, and if we could do it rationally, if we could do it with a sense of
security, with one another in dialogue, if we could keep talking about how can we
say God in the 21st century, then maybe in another half dozen years or so we may
stumble on a way of saying that will be much more in line with the world into
which you graduates are all going.
But, this is my prayer for you - No matter how the images, no matter how the
metaphors are going to change, that you’d still be able to sing something
comparable to "God hideth my soul in the cleft of the rock, in the depths of God’s
love, places God’s hand on me there." Because it’s Mystery. Those that know an
awful lot about the definition of God don’t know it all. And those who don’t know
are on the threshold of wisdom, opening to the possibility of fresh experience.
There were two fleas buried deeply in a forest of hair on a beasty. One said to the
other, "Do you think there really is anything called Dog?"

© Grand Valley State University

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                    <text>Mystery, Manifestation and Community
Pentecost III
Text: Exodus 3:2; Mark 1:11; Acts 9:3
Richard A. Rhem
Christ Community Church
Spring Lake, Michigan
June 25, 2000
Transcription of the spoken sermon

Reflect with me for such a few moments about what we have done here this
morning, what we have experienced. In the tradition from which I stem, the
church at its worship is to be marked by word and sacrament. That is, word
which gives explanation and the sacrament which is a visible demonstration of
the meaning of the word. As we reflect on that, we will be doing what the sermon
is intending to do - to reflect on the sacramental action in order that we might be
reminded again or that we might have clarified for us who we are and what we
are to be about. Before I proceed, however, let me remind you that two weeks ago
was Pentecost and we celebrated the Festival of the Holy Spirit and we brought to
a close that approximately six-month cycle in which we go through those marks
of the life of Jesus' birth and life and death and resurrection and the gift of the
Holy Spirit on Pentecost.
And then the Sunday following Pentecost is Trinity Sunday in the calendar of the
Church, because at that point we are ready to reflect or to realize, perhaps, as
never before the Trinitarian structure of our religious experience, that that
Ultimate Mystery not at our disposal, that Ultimate Mystery that we call God,
does break in or emanate from, become apparent to the likes of us in the arena of
history. The Ultimate Mystery shows itself in some historical manifestation and
that historical manifestation becomes the agent by which the mystery is revealed,
at least to some extent, and a believer is engaged by the Spirit, for to look at that
manifestation, some say "I believe," and others would say there's nothing to it.
But, to look at that manifestation ... for example, to look into the face of Jesus
and say, "My God," the Church has always recognized is the consequence of the
Spirit of God; it is the gift of God. God reveals God's self, and so there is Ultimate
Mystery, historical manifestation, and the concrete encounter of the individual,
the believer who has the epiphany, who sees, who experiences the illumination.
Sometimes that illumination results in a message and a mission whose
consequence is a community, a movement, a community of faith. Sometimes
even a religion is born. But at this point on the Church calendar, we can see the
trinitarian structure, not only of the nature of God, but the trinitarian structure of
our own religious experience, an ultimate mystery, a manifestation of history, a
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Richard A. Rhem

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believing person through the Spirit who may become the nucleus of a community
of a whole religious tradition.
I selected the scriptures I read in order to demonstrate that that is exactly what
was going on with Moses. Moses, brooding in the wilderness, tending sheep. I
love Chaim Potok's description of this moment in Moses' life. It's in the insert in
your liturgy. Read it this afternoon. It takes a novelist to tell you what the Bible is
all about, really, a great writer like Potok. You may say, "Well, he psychologizes
that experience of Moses." Yes. How else? How else does it happen? Of course,
and Chaim Potok is using his imagination, to be sure, but I think it's so moving,
so powerful. There's Moses who has been raised with the knowledge that he is a
Jew, but in the court of the Egyptians, lashes out in an heroic act or a dastardly
act of murder, and flees from justice. He is in the wilderness tending the sheep
with too much time on his hands to rummage it around in his mind – the gods of
Egypt, slavery, murder, all of that - must there be some other god? Must there not
be some other truth? And then one day a bush is burning and is not consumed
and he hears a voice and it becomes a holy place, and Moses becomes the
historical referent of that ultimate mystery and from Moses stems the nation
Israel and the Torah whose roots are in Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and whose
consequence is the history of Israel. Ultimate Mystery. Moment of manifestation.
Community, religious community flowing therefrom by the Spirit of God.
It was no different for Paul. Paul, restless, serious, cantankerous, passionate,
urgent, on the way to Damascus to stamp out that Way, maybe unconsciously
because he felt it was such a powerful way, this way of Jesus, only to be blinded
with light and turned around in his tracks, becoming now not the one who was
out to arrest the followers of the Way, but the one who took that way and
understood it after three years of meditation in the desert, understood the way of
Jesus as Judaism for the Gentiles, who understood the way of Jesus as the
universalizing of that which was intrinsic in Judaism, even though Judaism had
been particular and local. Yet, Paul could see Yahweh was not a tribal God;
Yahweh was the creator of the heavens and the earth. There was no other God.
Therefore, in Judaism itself, in its particularity, in its understanding of the one
true God, Creator of heaven and earth, was the invitation to the whole world. The
grace that Israel knew was for a world, and Paul becomes the great founder of the
Church.
Of course, it was with Jesus the same way, not really so different. When he joined
the Baptist Movement, when he was baptized with John the Baptist, he was
joining a revolutionary movement that was looking for the imminent incursion of
God. He was looking at the horror of the historical situation, the poverty and the
homelessness, the domination and the oppression and, in identifying with John
the Baptist through his baptism, Jesus was identifying with that movement of
social criticism that believed that somehow or other if God was just, God would
have to do something. And he hears a voice and in the hearing of a voice, he gains
identity and a mission, and he is driven out into the wilderness forty days and
forty nights. "Who am I? Whence the voice? What is this all about?" And from

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Richard A. Rhem

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Jesus comes Paul, comes you and me, the community of faith that moves from
that historical encounter with the word made flesh, who had face for the heart of
the Eternal.
So, you see, that simply is the nature of religious experience. I marvel sometimes
at my naiveté. I sort of always knew that there was this trinitarian thing, that God
revealed God's self in Jesus and illumined our eyes by the Holy Spirit, binding us
to Jesus who bound us to God. I knew that was a gift; I knew that was a
revelation. But, I thought that it was the only true revelation and, if it's the only
true revelation, you see, then anybody else who had a revelation has to be wrong.
Then I came to see that every religion claims a revelation. There's no religion
where someone sat down and said, "I think I'll think up a new scheme of things."
Mohammed had a vision resulting in the Koran. The Buddha had his pilgrimage
and experience and illumination. Moses did. I even had to say in my naiveté that
Moses, who was the historical agent of the Jewish faith and the tradition of Israel,
wasn't understood by Moses' own people, because they didn't read it through the
eyes of Jesus. I had relativized the Old Testament. I even had to claim that the
Jewish people didn't understand their own book. Is that arrogance? It certainly
was ignorance.
Now I can see the trinitarian structure of all religious experience, and I want to
say that every community claims its story and every community that develops
because of the authenticity of that story, that experience, develops its rituals and
its sacraments, and every such community has a mark and that is what we did
this morning at the baptismal font in the name of the Father and the Son and the
Holy Spirit, baptismal water prayed over for the Spirit's movement, placed on the
forehead of infants as a sign that they belong. We've all been baptized and that's
what marks us; it is our union card, as it were. And then we came to the table
because a community, to be a community, to have an identity, a sense of who it is,
needs to commemorate, needs to come back again and again to its founding
story, needs to come back to the table of our Lord, a table of Jesus where bread is
broken and the cup is poured out as a sign of the violent death that this one
experienced because of the way he lived, of the way he was, of the manifestation
of God that he was. So we come back to this table in order that we might
remember Jesus, in order that we might have fresh in our minds that face that
reflects the mystery, the ultimate grace and love of God at the heart of things.
The sacramental character of the Church. We could use different symbols,
different materials, we could enact it differently, but what we do has long history
and deep meaning, and I want to say just two things in closing. One is that that is
our way. That is a way. That is not the way. But, because it is not only a way, and
our way, it becomes for us the way. Why should I play fast and loose? Why should
I treat with nonchalance, why should I accord lack of importance to that
baptismal font and that communion table just because it is not the only way?
Because it is my way, and if it is my way, it is the way. While I look at another

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Richard A. Rhem

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who walks another way but experiences a similar grace, experiencing that
ultimate mystery that is known here in baptism and in table and in preaching and
in sacred dance, hear me again - our Christian way symbolized in baptism and
table is a way. It is not the only way. But, since it's our way, for us, the way, and
it's full of grace and wonder and beauty, and I love it very much.
Then, I would say this, although it is not the only way, although it is one way, if it
is good and true and beautiful, then it is worth the passion of my life to keep the
community that has grown up around it alive and healthy. Then it is worth the
engagement of my life to keep a community like this alive and well, with a strong
sense of identity, knowing its tradition, loving the life to which it is called. If it is
my way, if it is for us the way, then it deserves the passion of our lives.
We've had a lot of funerals here lately and just last Sunday in this place we buried
Betty Hofstra, 88 years, a beautiful saint of God. She was the fourth generation,
the daughters and grandchildren and the great grandchildren. And because it was
Sunday and they didn't open the grave, nonetheless, I went to the cemetery with
the family and there, particularly the fourth generation, the little ones took yellow
roses and stood around the gravestone where Great Grandpa Oscar was marked.
It was a beautiful experience with beautiful children remembering their Great
Grandma in the presence of the grave of their Great Grandpa, sanctified by
prayer. How else do you give sanctity to human life? How else do you celebrate
the death of a saint? How else do you give adequate value to a newborn? At the
moment of birth at the gift of a child you want to pray, you want to sing, you want
to dance, because life is pregnant with the holy if only we have eyes to see, if only
we pause long enough, if only some place along the way there is a community of
people with whom we can join in order to celebrate birth and death and the
commemoration of the heart of our story.
It's been quite a weekend. I married a daughter, baptized a grandson whose
father I baptized, and as we speak, a sister is being operated on in emergency
whose consequence will be serious cancer, I'm sure. Now, how do you do that
unless there is a God before whom one can kneel, before whom one can pause
and be still, before whom one can know that ultimately all is grace and all will be
well? Why in the world, if this is a way, even if it isn't the only way, need I treat it
nonchalantly? Should I denigrate it? Why can I not be passionately engaged in it
because it's not the only way, but, by God, it's good. It's good.

© Grand Valley State University

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                    <text>Mystery’s Face and Flow
Trinity Sunday
Text: Job 23:3; 11 Corinthians 4:6; and, John 14:9
Richard A. Rhem
Christ Community Church
Spring Lake, Michigan
May 25, 1997
Transcription of the spoken sermon
It is Trinity Sunday; the Sunday after Pentecost, and it's the time when we focus
on God. It is God Who brings us together week after week, and we have many
things about which to think and speak together. On Trinity, however, we go right
to the core, to God, and to focus on that conception of God which has been
shaped by the Christian tradition and has, indeed, shaped the Christian tradition,
that conception of a Triune God, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy
Spirit, One God blessed forever.
God in the modern period has become a problem, and although high percentages
of people affirm their faith in God, in the intellectual centers of reflection and
deep thinking that eventually impact popular opinion, God has had hard times in
the last two or three centuries. We no longer simply take for granted the existence
of God, and the nature of God has been thought about a good deal. The religious
quest will always be there. But, God has become a problem. That statement of the
problem was probably set forth as profoundly and as critically as anywhere by the
German philosopher Ludwig Feuerbach. You've heard me refer to Feuerbach, on
occasion, over the years, because his critique of the idea of God goes to the heart
of the matter. It is his idea that God is the projection of our human needs unto
the screen of reality, after which we bow down and worship, that God is the
consequence of human need and that God is a human construction or a
projection. It is certainly true that when we ask about God, we are asking about
ourselves. The questions about God are really questions about our own existence.
Whence have we come? Whither are we going? And in the meantime, what is the
meaning of it all? Is there any purpose? Is there any direction?
The human situation is fraught with peril. We are threatened creatures; our
human existence is perilous. At any moment we well know that we could be
wiped out. We stand at the side of those we love, helplessly seeing them die. We,
ourselves, are vulnerable to a medical diagnosis at any time that could be fatal.
The human condition is one of contingency; it is a perilous life we lead, and the
religious quest is quite a natural quest after some anchor, some place to stand,
some place of comfort, some place to rest the soul. And so, when Feuerbach said
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that God does not exist except as we have created God and objectified God and
constructed God out of our own human needs, he was putting his finger on
something that was true. He was roundly criticized, of course, and the Church
rose up with great defensiveness at such a suggestion, that God is a human
creation. Feuerbach, nonetheless, had looked at the human person and the
human situation, had sensed the fearfulness and the anxiety and the fragility of
human existence and detected within the human person a kind of weakness that
longed for some strong source of support and comfort and strength. Feuerbach's
mistake, which is a mistake all of us often make, was to absolutize his claim, that
is, that God is nothing but... To say that God is nothing but the projection of
human need is to say too much. But, his insight is telling and you must be aware,
as I am, of that which goes on in your own soul and heart and you must observe
as I do all about us those for whom God is a crutch, a safety blanket, a security
measure. God, for many of us, is the God we need. But, that's not all there is to
say.
I point that out because we are downstream from that movement of modern
atheism. From Feuerbach came Freud who said that religion is an illusion, Marx,
who said that human life is nothing but economic determinism, Nietzsche, who
said all is nothingness. The nihilism that is laced within contemporary society is
the consequence of that conception of things that has ruled out God, that
conception of a Feuerbach who saw so much of human need projected into God
that he simply wiped God away. But, as Nietzsche said, God is dead, and
everything is permissible. And I would say that the 20th century is probably a
good example of the fact that, when God is dead, anything is permissible, and
very soon the fabric of society begins to unravel.
Karen Armstrong, in her lecture a couple of weeks ago, spoke of the future of
God, and she alluded to the contemporary atheism that pervades the lives of so
many, even though they might answer a Gallup Poll, "Oh, yes, I believe in God."
But there exists a practical atheism, living without any engagement or any regard
to God. Karen Armstrong, said we are in one of those periods of history when we
are simply waiting in the darkness for some future image to arise. But atheism,
she said, is not to be feared, for it is not a rejection of God, but it is a rejection of
inadequate conceptions of God. And so, we are in this present darkness, waiting,
confident that there will yet emerge that understanding of God that can call forth
from us worship and commitment to the ways of love and of justice.
We have had inadequate conceptions of God. We have archaic, naive and
primitive ideas of God, which we have not updated with everything else that we
know in our world. With all of the explosion of knowledge, we have not done
much with our idea of God.
Yesterday it was a nice day and I was beckoned out of the loft to contemplate
God. I went out on the bluff to soak up a little sunshine, thinking that I could
think there or not think at all there, and lo and behold, God got me there, too, for

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as I sat down there was a little table in front of me, one of those little, low tables.
It was made of slats of wood and those slats of wood had little spaces between
them, and as I contemplated the table, there was an ant. So, I will now tell you
the story, "The Ant and I."
The ant went all the way up one board to the corner, and then he made a left turn
and went down the short side and got to another corner, came all the way down
the long side, came to the corner, went up the short side. And I thought, "Now,
what will you do? You've been all the way around the perimeter. Now, what will
you do, little ant?" He did it all over again. Got to every crisis point, made his
turn, in his case, always the left turn, and got back to the starting point. And then
one time, as I was about to drift off, he came to the edge and he went down and
he found the supporting board underneath which created a bridge for him to get
to the next board. He came up on the next board and then he went all the way
down on the board, across, all the way up, down, and he did that several times.
And I thought, "You know, ant, you ought to give me some interesting plot to
follow because I don't have time just to watch you continue to traverse all these
boards."
But, then I realized that God had placed me there in order to contemplate God,
not the ant, for my contemplating the ant is that old image of God that we've
grown up with that has come to us out of an ancient past where there was a
heaven and an earth and the waters under the earth, the three-storied universe,
where God was a being on the throne "out there," in heaven somewhere, and we
were here, and God, although totally apart from us, would come down into our
history and affect circumstances and then return back to heaven. I thought to
myself, if I contemplate the ant, I am like that childhood idea of God which I had.
Here I am, totally unengaged, just a spectator, observing. Now, I thought to
myself, I could take a piece of dune grass and I could wiggle it in front of the ant,
seeing whether or not I could influence the pattern of its peregrinations. But, I
didn't do that. Then I thought to myself, I could crush that bugger! But, I didn't
do that. And then I thought, I could help him. I could save him; I could redeem
him from his dilemma. He is on the surface of a table and the poor dear really is
trying to find the sand. He's trying to find the sand where there is sustenance,
where there is community, where there is home. He's trying to find his brothers
and sisters. I could actually pick him up and put him down on the sand. I didn't
do that, either. When I left him, he had gone down into one of those deep valleys
between the boards, he was down on that foundation piece which probably was a
deep, dark valley of the shadow of death for him. I was half-tempted to pick him
up and put him down, but I thought, "No, I think I'll just leave you there."
Then I thought to myself, "I am like my old image of God, sovereign, absolute. I
can do what I will with that ant. I can crush the ant. I could redeem the ant. I
could observe the ant. I could get engaged with the ant. But, I'm totally apart
from the ant, even though I have the prerogative of getting involved with it, but I
live a separate existence far superior and beyond the ant."

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That's the God I learned in Sunday School. How about you? And then I thought to
myself, "That isn't the God that makes sense of my universe at all today. That's
not how I understand human existence, the world, the cosmos." Oh, I understand
how that old system worked and if we wouldn't be literal about it all, it would still
work for us because it tells us, according to Paul, of God Who said, "Let light
shine out of darkness." In other words, the Creator God Who, in the fullness of
time, shined into our hearts the light of the Gospel of the glory of God in the face
of Jesus Christ. And Paul, in his writing to the Corinthians, was talking about the
fact how we even look at that mirror of Jesus mirroring God, and how we, as we
contemplate that image, are changed into that image by the Spirit of God. So, I
see what Paul meant. In the biblical material, I can understand that God, the
incarnation of God, the Spirit of God shaping me into the image of that incarnate
One according to the purposes of God. Or, as John witnessed, really quite simple.
Jesus said, "I'm going to leave you." Thomas said, "We don't know the way."
Jesus said, "I am the Way. I am the Truth. I am the Life. No one comes to the
Father but by me."
Phillip said, "Ah, I've been wanting to talk to you about that. Just show us the
Father and we'll be satisfied."
It's that deep longing. I don't sense that Phillip was in any particular crisis.
Job was in a crisis! Job said, "Oh, that I knew where I might find him!" In the
midst of his burning anguish, Job was in a crisis, with the problem of suffering
and of tragedy in the world that has wrenched that cry out of the human heart
down through the centuries.
Phillip? Phillip's just, well, still longing, though. He said, "Just show us the
Father. Oh, if I could just know, if I could just see."
Jesus said, "Look, how long have I been with you, you still don't get it. You see
me, you see the Father. There's no other access. There's no other map. There's no
other possibility except as you behold God in my face."
So, Paul saw God in the face of Jesus. John saw in his witness to Jesus, God in the
face of Jesus. I can understand that. But then, as I was thinking about the
inadequacy of my King of the Universe model over against the ant, I realized that
that old model wouldn't work anymore, because that table is not just a thing.
That table is dammed up energy, because we know that for 15 billion years it has
been a cosmic river of energy expanding time and space as it moves, and we know
that that table is simply energy, for a time coalesced, gathered into material, but
that material can as well be transferred back into energy because energy and
matter are interchangeable; they're all one reality. It is not as though I have a life
other than that ant; the life of the ant is the life in me, as well. It is God's Spirit,
God's breath that enables the ant to live and me to live, and I am just a cut above

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the ant in that I am conscious of the ant and the ant is not conscious of me, but
consciousness is that uniquely human capacity. But, the human, although having
that consciousness, that self-awareness, that ability to observe the process, is not
apart from the process, for that table and that ant and my body are all one reality,
and all of it alive because of God. Nothing exists except God's Spirit, God's breath,
God's enlivening presence.
So, I have to do away with that old King model of a God, "out there" ruling, some
sovereign Absolute Who can dip down, Who can save or damn. I have to get God,
somehow or other, into the reality of my world, to see that my world is because
God's breath is or God's Spirit is, and behind and beyond that cosmic drama
there is a mystery, a mystery that we cannot fathom, that totally Other, that
wholly Other, totally transcendent, Ultimate Mystery that is the Source. I don't
know how to say anything more. And even to say that is an article of faith. There's
no empirical proof that there's any Source! But, I cannot believe the marvels and
wonders of the cosmic drama, except I think of a fountain of creativity that
continues to pour forth and that the cosmic drama itself continues to be laced
with that creativity as that develops in all of its diversity in a thousand directions
with possibilities unlimited.
But then, I think to myself, "So I have an Ultimate Mystery. But, what is the
nature of that Mystery other than a creativity. And I have a cosmos of tables and
chairs and bricks and bodies and everything existent, and all of that diversity what does it mean? What is the nature of the Mystery? And what is the meaning
of the manifold diversity of my reality?
And then I see a face. I see the face of Jesus. And suddenly I'm back at an old
Triune God. Suddenly I see the Trinity with new eyes. Suddenly I see the Ultimate
Mystery totally hidden from us, but totally present in all that is, defined in a face,
the face of Jesus. That enables me to have a sense of the nature of the Mystery, to
sense that that Mystery which is creativity is driving things toward an order of
love and justice, because if that face, that representation in history, that
concretization, that incarnation - if that incarnation of Jesus is really a reflection
or a mirror of the Mystery, and as I reflect on that reflection in the face of Jesus,
if I am being thus shaped like Jesus, then perhaps it is the intention of that whole
cosmic drama that there be those who be human who are thus shaped, who are
joining in those currents that lead to justice and to love.
Suddenly I have a three-pointed God again. I have the Ultimate Mystery, the
Source of it all; I have the enlivening presence of God in all that is, and I have a
definition, I have a specificity, I have an image, an icon, a concrete shape that
calls me to meaningful living.
The way of Jesus. The way of justice. The way of compassion, moving, moving, I
trust and hope, to the Kingdom of God, Shalom, the Cosmic Harmony in perfect
pitch.

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Richard A. Rhem

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Now I have a sense of my whence, although I cannot penetrate the Mystery. I
have a sense of my aliveness, thanks to that breath, wind, Spirit that's been
flowing now for 15 billion years, and I have a marker, I have a way, I have a face,
and it's because of that face that we gather here, lost in wonder, love and praise,
before the Mystery, and go out of here to live a certain way.
My economic decisions are not just economic decisions. They are economic
decisions that I make in light of my call to follow Jesus.
My political decisions are not just arbitrary political decisions; they are decisions
that I make in the light of the face that I see.
The total way that I am is not arbitrary. It is a way of commitment, following the
one whose commitment led him to death and resurrection, by the Spirit, moving,
moving toward that final Kingdom.
In the light of all that we know about that cosmic river of energy that now and
again is dammed up into material stuff like chairs and tables and bodies, I can't
believe that, caught up in that process, I still need three points of light, or a
Triune God, or a God creatively present, concretely representative of that life to
which I am called.
The Church is a place where we gather where all lobbying ceases, all selfish
ambition comes to an end, all personal advantage ceases as we commit ourselves
to the cause of the Ultimate Mystery Whose clue we've found in a face. It's just as
simple as that.

© Grand Valley State University

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: Korean War
Name of Interviewee: Sherwin Nagelkirk
Length of Interview: (01:39:36)
(00:20) Background Information
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•

Sherwin was born in Zeeland, Michigan during the Depression and lived with his
grandparents for 9 years while his father worked on their farm
In 1940 his father felt well off enough to buy his own farm and they moved near Grand
Haven, Michigan
It was a very old house with no running electricity and they had to boil water to heat it
Sherwin began working on his uncle’s farm after he graduated from high school
In July of 1951 Sherwin got a job working for American Seating Company, but should
have continued working on his uncle’s farm
He had not realized at the time that working on a farm was preventing him from being
drafted
About one month after he quit working on the farm he received a draft notice from the
Army
Sherwin had been engaged when he was drafted and it was very hard for him leaving his
fiancée and his family
Sherwin was inducted in Lansing and then was sent to Fort Custer in Battle Creek,
Michigan for more physicals and paperwork

(7:15) Basic Training
•

Sherwin was sent to Fort Riley in Kansas where he spent 16 weeks going through basic
infantry training

•

Training was not hard for him because he had grown up on a farm and had it pretty hard
as a kid

•

He also did well with rifle training because he had spent much time hunting

•

Sherwin did not enjoy night maneuvers and felt pretty lazy by that time of the day

•

One night while they were on maneuvers he hid from everyone till it was very quiet and
then snuck back in the barracks when everyone was sleeping

(14:00) Overseas
•

The men were sent to Oakland, California and later received their orders that they were to
be sent to Korea

�•

There were about 3,000 men on the ship, a converted luxury liner

•

The trip took 14 days and 4 of them they were in a terrible storm that made everyone sea
sick

•

To make things worse they all ate bad turkey one day and had food poisoning

•

They landed in Yokohama, Japan and made their way towards camp near Tokyo

•

They later took a different ship to Inchon, Korea

(18:50) Korea
•

They men got off their ship and made their way through the streets of Inchon while
children begged them for food

•

They took a train quite a ways and then loaded onto trucks; all the time they were
traveling it was freezing cold with no heat

•

Sherwin was assigned to the 25th Infantry Division, 35th Regiment, Fox Company

•

He was quickly started on guard duty and worked also on digging trenches near outposts
to keep in contact with the line

•

Once the trenches were dug they practiced firing M-1s and BARs

(28:30) Heartbreak Ridge
•

Sherwin often worked on guard duty at night near the outposts

•

It was always very cold and snowing all night long, almost too cold to be outside

•

The men would trade working one hour and then have one hour off so that they would
not get sick or frost bite

•

About 6 weeks after arriving in Korea they moved into a reserve area for more training
and were then assigned to work at Heartbreak Ridge

•

Upon arrival they could tell that there had been a massive battle in the area because there
were stinking body parts sticking out all over the ground

•

They only worked at night and were carrying many logs to build traps and set up areas
for machine guns

(38:50) Wounded
•

Sherwin was a corporal and he and his men had been ordered to build a new outpost on
July 4, 1952

•

There were about 6 men assigned for the job; some were to work while others stood
guard

�•

Sherwin kept hearing noises and called out to whoever was coming

•

His sergeant was alarmed when no one answered and threw a grenade towards where the
noise was coming from

•

Moments later another grenade was thrown in between Sherwin’s feet and went off

•

It was a poorly built Chinese grenade, so he was not mortally wounded

•

His men began shooting and there were mortars going off everywhere for a while

•

Eventually the enemy fire ceased and Sherwin was brought near the line to see a medic

•

The medic told him he would have to be evacuated and he was brought to a field hospital

•

Sherwin enjoyed being in the field hospital because he got to take a shower every day and
wear clean clothes

•

5 days later he was told he would have to go back to the line because they needed his cot
for men that were wounded more severely

(47:50) New Position
•

The men were given a new position across from the front line

•

They later had a presentation and Sherwin was awarded a silver star

•

They were staying in bunkers behind a large hill and it was raining constantly

•

Later the men had to travel about 5 miles along side a mountain and there was a strange
liquid oozing out of the ground the entire way

•

Sherwin believed it was from all the rain mixing with the buried bodies

(57:00) Kojido Island
• The men were relieved of their positions on Heartbreak Ridge and sent to Kojido Island
where all the prisoners were being kept
• They took trucks and stopped on Pusan before boarding a ship to be sent to the island
• They island was very far away from the Ridge and the weather was completely the
opposite; nice and warm
• Sherwin spent time watching over the prisoners while they were on work detail
• After he left there was an uprising and fight between the Chinese and Korean prisoners so
they had to keep them on separate islands
• Sherwin later had R &amp; R in Japan and flew there in a plane

�• The city he visited was very crowded with people driving cars, trucks, and scooters; no
one ever used the breaks but were always using their horns
(1:08:25) Moving North
•

They left the island and moved North through Korea

•

It seemed like they were in no hurry to get to their location because they were making
many random unnecessary stops

•

They continued North and it was getting very cold; they always had to sleep outside

•

The men were only allowed a certain amount of kerosene per tent for heat

•

One of Sherwin’s friends stole some extra kerosene and he was later demoted and court
marshaled

•

A few days after reaching their destination Sherwin received orders in the middle of the
night that he would be going back to the US

(1:18:45) Back to US
•

Sherwin and a few other men took some trucks down towards the coast and later were in
Sasebo, Japan

•

They loaded onto a ship and this trip took 18 days; they landed in Seattle in the middle of
the night

•

There was a welcoming ceremony for them the next day and it was all very exciting

•

Sherwin took a bus through Washington and then a train to Fort Custer

•

He had a 30 day furlough, but still had another 3 months to serve

•

Sherwin was then sent to Fort Sheridan in Illinois where he was ordered to a small base
to watch over Chicago for unidentified flying aircraft

•

He did not like the men he was working with; they were all very lazy and at any given
time about 25% of them were AWOL

(1:28:10) Discharged
•

Sherwin was “released” from the Army, but not yet discharged

•

He got married on August 13, 1953 and had had 3 children by December 1956

•

He then received a letter from the reserves noting that he was “no longer available” for
service because he had too many dependants

•

Sherwin was finally discharged in 1959

�•

He began working for American Seating Company again and retired 38 years later

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Boring, Frank</text>
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                    <text>Nancy Crean - Interviewed by Nathan Neitering
June 6 2018

1

Nathan Neitering: Uh, this is Nathan Neitering, and I’m here today with Nancy Crean at the old
schoolhouse in Douglas, Michigan on June 6th 2018. This oral history is being collected as part of the
Stories of Summer Project, which is supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the
Humanities Common Heritage Program. Thank you for taking the time to speak with me today, I’m
interested to learn more about your family history and your experiences of summer in the Saugatuck
Douglas area. First, can you please tell me your full name and spell it?
Nancy Crean: It’s Nancy Crean, C R E A N.
NN: Okay, and your maiden name?
NC: Pandel. P A N D E L.
NN: Thank you very much, um, so first, tell me about where you grew up?
NC: I grew up in Chicago. On the south side, very close to um, South Shore Country Club, Museum of
Science and Industry, so I spent part of my summer at the beach in Chicago, and the other part of my
summer here in Saugatuck at the Oval Beach.
NN: Awesome, always on the beach.
NC: Always on the beach.
NN: [Laughs] Um, and did you have any siblings growing up?
NC: I have one brother, and his name is Bob Pandel and he did basically the same thing as me other than
he played sports.
NN: Okay, alright. Um, do you remember the first time you came to Saugatuck?
NC: Probably not because I was probably about 3 months old.
NN: Okay.
NC: [Laughs]
NN: Then….
NC: …First memory?
NN: Yeah, first memory.
NC: First memories would probably be about 6 years old.
NN: Okay.

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June 6 2018

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NC: So I came up with my family and we would come up every weekend starting in April all the way
through November and we would spend two full weeks here during the summer when my, my dad had
vacation, and we had a friend across the street, Mark Francis and the three of us would just play ball,
we’d ride bikes, we’d play in the golf course when we weren’t supposed to. We would steal the golf balls
off the fourth hole and watch the people look for them. Um, we, as we got older we met other people in
town and we would do things with them, mainly playing like baseball or whatever. And later on going
into town and hanging out in the middle of the street when they would close down the town, with the
college kids.
NN: Um, so you said you have a brother do you have any children?
NC: I have two children, two girls, Jennifer and Kelly and they both came here from the time they were
born also. We spent more time here because I was a teacher, so I was able to come you know for weeks
at a time during the summer, so they were able to enjoy a lot more things than we were. And I have
grandchildren who also do the same thing and they were very lucky because they could spend just as
much time, but they got to enjoy you know the arts and the swimming and the sailing and everything
else, you know because we did more things then.
NN: Right, wonderful. Okay, so take me back, were step back for a second.
NC: Okay.
NN: Tell me how and when did you family first come to the Saugatuck area?
NC: Um, my father had hay fever and so they used to go up to Petoskey for some reason it was better up
there and they would stop here in Saugatuck on the way because they had some relatives here and
eventually my grandfather and grandmother decided to buy a home here in 1930 and they settled here
and they did have friends and relatives that lived here [pause] for the summers. So I think that’s what
brought them here.
NN: Wonderful, and what were your grandparents names?
NC: It was Frieda and Rudolph Pandel.
NN: Okay, and your parents’ names?
NC: My parents’ names were Ernest and Ada Pandel.
NN: Very good, thank you. Um, and so it sounds like, it kind of became a family tradition to come to
Saugatuck.
NC: Very much so.
NN: Yes.

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June 6 2018

3

NC: Very much so, everybody loves it here and we have absolutely no intentions of selling the house or
anything. The kids don’t want to divide it up, they want to keep coming here as we are now.
NN: Wonderful, and what is the address of the house?
NC: The address is 565 Campbell Road.
NN: Okay, and can you describe it a little bit, as it currently is?
NC: Yes, it is a small two bedroom, um it has a living room, a kitchen, one bathroom, and a screened in
porch and a basement.
NN: Okay, and what sort of condition is it in?
NC: Um, it’s in very good condition, we maintained it over the years, we still have the original windows
the original plumbing or, um, like sinks and bathtub, um, it’s the original wood floors, original wood, um,
woodwork and it’s still the same color it was, when they bought it.
NN: SO it truly feels like stepping back in time.
NC: It is, I have, I have a picture from my when my grandfather bought it was, its dark brown like stain
with white. Exact same. Hasn’t changed.
NN: That’s wonderful, that’s really cool. Um, tell me a little bit more about some of your other
experiences as a child coming to Saugatuck.
[00:05:06]
NC: Okay! Um we spent when we were here we spent almost every day at the beach.
NN: Okay.
NC: Or, or going through the woods back behind um, on Campbell road if you go north, it’s the woods
between Campbell and Perryman and we would explore through there and we’d swing on the vines and
whatever, um, we did not have a boat so we did not do any boating when I was a child, um, we swam all
the time we went to town, rode bikes, all of those things. My parents didn’t have a lot of money so they
didn’t enroll us in sailing or anything like that so it as basically, being kids. You know, and having the
freedom to come and go as you pleased, you know and there were no curfews you know, your parents
didn’t worry about you, you could, you know, be out, you know doing things that, well you should be
doing.
NN: That kids do right?
NC: Exactly.

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June 6 2018

4

NN: Yes.
NC: Climbing trees, you know things we wouldn’t be doing in Chicago, because we did have access to
that.
NN: There wasn’t a space, right? Were you mostly spending this time with your family or did you have
friends here as well?
NC: We had, just the boy across the street and I had one girl that moved in.
NN: Okay.
NC: And then we hung around some the guys in town. So I didn’t meet a lot of girls until I was older. So
it was mostly boys.
NN: Mostly boys.
NC: Which worked out well.
NN: That’s okay.
[Both laugh]
NN: Um, so even when you were fairly young would your family ever sort of pack and head into
Saugatuck, the village center or did you stay out close to the lake?
NC: No, well during the day we were at the beach but in the evenings we would go into town and walk
around and you know, visit with people that were selling everything, and we knew Mr. Francis who
owned a grocery store.
NN: Okay.
NC: They’re the ones who lived across the street from us, so we would go into his store to do grocery
shopping.
NN: Okay, alright.
NC: That little teeny store.
NN: Do you recall any of the other restaurants or businesses that you would, frequent?
NC: You know what, um, the only restaurant that we used to go was, it was a hamburger place, I’m
trying to, I can’t think of the name. It was behind where the, its M and M’s now….
NN: Oh, right.

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June 6 2018

5

NC: …but it used to be, I can’t remember what the name of it was.
NN: Uh, tasty treat or something? At one point?
NC: Yeah, that was, that was tasty freeze but right behind it where the breakfast place is now.
NN: Mhm.
NC: There was a restaurant that had hamburgers and I can’t remember the name of it.
NN: That was on Blue Star, right?
NC: It was on Blue Star but it was behind the tasty freeze. So I think, its, I, I don’t know what the name of
it is now. I don’t think its WayPoint.
NN: No, um, okay. When you, do you recall, um, uh, being at the house and you know, what kind of food
would you guys eat? .
NC: Um, my mother, my mother would make dinner before we went to the beach. She would prepare
everything so when we came home from the beach, and we took our baths and got organized she would
serve dinner within 20 minutes of the time we got home.
NN: Wow, okay.
NC: Yes, so she made homemade dinners every single day. I know she, she was quite the woman.
[Whispers] I don’t do that.
NN: But uh, apparently cooking was something she was passionate about?
NC: She, well, well, we had to eat.
NN: Well yes, and people get hungry.
NC: And she did not mind cooking you know so, it was very hot because it’s a small cottage but, it
worked.
NN: Okay, um, [pause] so as you grew older into your teenage years, do you have specific memories of
coming up….
NC: …I do….
NN: …that’s a little bit different than a young childhood’s experience.
NC: I do, I brought up friends when I was a teenager so then we had, were able to go to the beach by
ourselves and there was lots and lots of college kids and teenagers and they, you’d sit together so you

�Nancy Crean - Interviewed by Nathan Neitering
June 6 2018

6

didn’t have to sit with your parents which was really nice, and I went to the, the um, festival, the rock
festival that they had here.
NN: Okay.
NC: I attended that. That was really interesting.
NN: Do you remember which year that was?
NC: It was in like ’69? Maybe?
NN: Okay, there were a couple of them in the late 60’s.
NC: Yeah I believe it was in ’69.
NN: Okay.
NC: Alice Cooper was there.
NN: Okay.
NC: So, I believed it was around ’68 or ’69, right around the time Woodstock happened.
NN: Yep.
NC: So, it was like a mini one, but my parents allowed us to go and….
NN: …So they knew that’s where you were going?
NC: They knew we, they dropped us off!.
NN: Alright!.
NC: They dropped us off and then we hitched a ride. We actually hitchhiked back to the house and my
parents never even asked a question. That’s what I said they, you know, it was a different world back
then. You know, and when I was probably in my early teens, um, that’s when all the college kids would
be there and they’d gather around where Marro’s is and Coral Gables and they’d have to close down the
town because there was so many of them, and they’d just kind of hang out, and that’s what we did.
There was also a dance, it wasn’t the Pavilion it’s where um, Mermaid is now, that used to be a big
warehouse at one time, and they had dances, teen dances there. That you could go to, and we did that
in the evenings on like Saturday nights, which was a lot of fun, so….
[00:10:10]
NN: About what year would that have been?

�Nancy Crean - Interviewed by Nathan Neitering
June 6 2018

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NC: That probably was somewhere between ’67 and ’69.
NN: Okay.
NC: …because that would’ve been, let’s see, let me think. Yes, it would’ve been the summer of ’67 or
’68, because I remember the friends I brought up with me.
NN: They were all friends from back in Chicago?
NC: They were, yes, and they loved it here. They still come up with me by the way.
NN: Good! That’s excellent! Uh, so what else do you remember about the concert? The rock concert?
NC: The concert!.
NN: Yes!.
NC: It was very interesting, there were a lot of drugs, lot of smoking, um, people were just enjoying
themselves, lots of dancing, music was great! You know, it was a beautiful day, didn’t rain so it was very
very nice….
NN: That makes a big difference when you were in a field, right?
NC: Yes, yes. It was, it was, I had never been to something like that, I went to an all-girl catholic school
back home, and so we were very conservative and it was like, very interesting to me, it opened my eyes
to a lot of different things because they were doing many things that I had never seen before. So, kind of
introduced me to what college would be like.
NN: Yes [Both laugh] Do you recall any of the other performers that?
NC: I don’t. Alice Cooper sticks out in my mind because he became famous, so.
NN: Right. He was there.
NC: Right. In fact, my cousin who lived in Fennville, he was one of his road managers. Alice Cooper. Yes.
Which is very cool.
NN: Oh! That’s fascinating.
NC: Yes! Very cool.
NN: I bet I would have some good questions for him too.
NC: He passed away [laughs] He just passed away two years ago, I know, you missed it!.

�Nancy Crean - Interviewed by Nathan Neitering
June 6 2018

8

NN: Um, yeah, we’ve heard, we’ve heard several people, you know have memories of that concert
depending on their, perhaps, level of sobriety.
NC: Right, I was going to say depending on their age. Because I was probably about 14, 15 years old so I
was a lot younger.
NN: You were younger then.
NC: Yes, yes.
NN: Okay interesting, and even in a conservative Catholic household….
NC: Yes!.
NN: …it was no questions asked over the concert?
NC: Nope, nope. I don’t think they had a clue, what they were dropping us off at. To be perfectly honest,
and when we came home we really didn’t tell them anything about it, and they passed away a few years
ago and they still didn’t know. [Laughs] Life is good.
NN: Yes, that’s great.
NC: So but, no, it was great, it was very very interesting being there, it was, it was something different
you know and it was nice that you could come to a small town like this and have something like that….
NN: Right….
NC: …and Saugatuck has always been a place where you can come have things that were different, then
many other places and I think that’s one of the draws here.
NN: Yep.
NC: I really do.
NN: I agree, I think a lot of other people would agree with you as well. Um, did you ever during the
summers as a teen or young adult did you ever, sounds like you always came here for vacation, did you
ever, ever have a summer job here?
NC: I didn’t, no, I had summer jobs back home.
NN: Okay, that’s fine. Um, do you recall then, as, as you were getting older were there other restaurants
or businesses or places you used to hang out?
NC: Uh, no. No, we basically stayed close to home.

�Nancy Crean - Interviewed by Nathan Neitering
June 6 2018

9

NN: Stayed close, and on the beach right?
NC: Right, on the beach or in town just enjoying, you know, the crowds basically.
NN: Did you ever have a reason to come to Douglas?
NC: Yes, there as a really good bakery here. [Laughs]
NN: Oh! Okay!.
NC: There was a really good bakery, it was next to where the catholic school used to be.
NN: Okay, down Center Street, yep!.
NC: Yes, yes they made really good butter crust bread. So, and we would, there would be baseball
games that you could watch too, in the park….
NN: [speaking over NC] At the Pet…what is now Beery Field.
NC: Exactly.
NN: Okay, okay.
NC: So but other than that I don’t think we did, we’d walk a lot my brother and I rode bikes everywhere,
so we, we rode all the way through, down the hills and around Saugatuck and Douglas so.
NN: Do you recall, especially if you were on a bike, um, ever encountering motorcycle groups?
NC: Oh gosh, yes! .
NN: Okay! .
NC: Oh yeah, that’s, well the town went through many different changes, it was the motorcycles came in
and then, um, when the gay population first starting came, coming in it was, oh, trying to think of the
name of the place right as you’re going into Saugatuck, it’s called the blue something-or-other.
NN: Blue Tempo.
NC: Yes! Yes. There, there was a lot of different changes going on, things, again, that you never saw
before. You know, it was very very interesting, and um, so the town went through different changes and
because when I was a child, it was very family oriented and then it, it went to the college kids and then it
went to I believe the motorcycle gangs were first, and then I believe the gay population started to come
in and you know, bring their culture because back then it was very different because they were um,
trying to, um, how could I say this, they were a little more flamboyant. You know where as now,
everybody’s the same, which is the way it should’ve been a long time ago, but it was you know, different

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June 6 2018

10

culture. So you got that, and then it went back to the family, which is really interesting, it’s a full circle,
because now, you know if you go to the beach, there was, as you sure you, you might, I don’t know if
you remember this, where there was the gay part of the beach where you had to pay and there was
nudity and everything else down there, and now, I mean it’s all families, you know and everybody just
intermingles and gets along and its, it’s awesome, you know? And that’s the thing I think is so cool about
Saugatuck because it’s such a great area for everything, and everyone!.
[00:15:40]
NN: Yes.
NC: So. But yes, there’s been many different changes. Motorcycle gangs were interesting. You’d see like,
you know, a hundred of them parked in front of the Sand Bar, you know, because that was what their
favorite bar, you know and it was loud you know and it didn’t scare people away but I don’t think
families came as much.
NN: Well, and I guess if the motorcycle groups, gangs, had, had their space everybody else had space
around them.
NC: Exactly.
NN: Okay, alright.
NC: Exactly, exactly. You know it didn’t stop our family from coming into town, to walk around and
everything we, we continued doing everything the same our entire life. So….
NN: Do you ever recall when the motorcycle gangs would roll in or roll out of town?
NC: Oh, the sound?
NN: Yes.
NC: Oh my gosh, yes. It was, it was noisy it was kind of like the cigarette boats now [laughs] when you
hear them going, but it was much closer. Yes, because they had like the big hogs, I mean they had they
huge motorcycles you know, and they were, they were large men you know, they had, looked scary and
in sure they weren’t scary, they were just normal people that just wanted to do their thing, but, you
know it’s just different then what we had before.
NN: Right, and very noticeable.
NC: Exactly. Exactly, because I’m 65, no, I’m 66 [laughs] .
NN: You look great.

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June 6 2018

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NC: Well thank you, so, so I’ve experienced a lot of different changes. I think more, more changes during
my lifetime than any other time, in Saugatuck, you know, because, I think when my grandparents
bought it, I think it was very much a resort town, like, um, my mother-in-law when she was 17, took a
bus here and stayed at one of the hotels because she had heard that it was a fun place to go.
NN: How old do you think she was when she did that?
NC: She was 17.
NN: Okay, okay.
NC: She is now, she lives with us, she’s 92.
NN: Wow.
[Both laugh]
NN: Alright, so, this is all fascinating. Um, you know as you kind of already pointed out, the, the gay
culture….
NC: Yes….
NN: …kind of, kind of grew or became more um, less underground….
NC: ..Right!.
NN: …perhaps? So, when do you, do you recall when you first kind of became aware of that?
NC: Um, I was probably, I believe I was married so it had to be in the ‘70s maybe late ‘70s because I
think my children were already born and I, I, remember one incident, it was the Fourth of July and there
was um, probably 4 or 5 gay men out in front of the, where the washroom is in Saugatuck and one of
them was dressed in a wedding gown and it just and it was just really cute, and they were, they were
adorable you know but it was just so bizarre and my kids were like, ‘what’s going on?’ You know? You
know, and we were always very open, we explained to them everything, they were, they were very
accepting about everything because you know we had friends who were gay and everything so it was no
big deal. But, it was so flamboyant, I mean it was just like something that was like in your face, you know
but it, it changed. I mean it, it, which is wonderful you know because now I think our gay population is,
what about 40%? You know, which is wonderful and, like I said many of my friends are gay, I had gay
friends when I was young too though, so.
NN: So um, when you just, when you say that it was flamboyant, was it mostly in their style of dress?
Such as wedding gowns?

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June 6 2018

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NC: It was in their style of dress, it was in the way they acted, um, they were very physically showing
that they were gay, you know they had no qualms about it which, which they should’ve been able to
because heterosexual people are, but it wasn’t accepted back then.
NN: Right.
NC: That, that was the difference, so they were making um, a statement you know which I think was
probably a really good thing because people got, like anything else, anything that’s different, once you
get used to seeing it, it’s no longer different. It’s every day, you know? And like you said when they
came out of the closet, which should’ve happened a long time ago, I think people just became very
accepting of everything, so, which is really nice. But I think that was their way, I think it’s, the way with
anything that’s different, you have you to kind of put it in people’s faces and put it out there so they see
it, and they recognize it, and then from there you kind of just tame it down to normalcy.
NN: Yeah, you mentioned the Blue Tempo as a, as a destination.
[00:20:02]
NC: Yes.
NN: What else do you recall about the Blue Tempo? Did you ever go there?
NC: I did not.
NN: Did you know people who went there?
NC: I did know people who went there, but I did not, so and I remember also um, what’s the name of
the resort? The hotel, right on Blue Star?
NN: Uh, The Dunes?
NC: The Dunes, yes, I knew many people, my daughter [Laughs] my daughter is 40, she’s 41 now but
when she was younger she hung around with some people that were gay and she went there, and it was
a really interesting story when she came home that night. I was like ‘Really?’ but it was, you know it was,
like it’s just a different way of life.
NN: And it’s a safe space for them.
NC: It’s a very safe space, and I don’t, I don’t hear about The Dunes anymore so I don’t know whether or
not it’s, it’s still a destination, I’m not sure, because you know everything is acceptable now. You know,
you can go to any hotel it doesn’t matter, you know but I don’t know if they still, do they still have their
bar and dancing, and?
NN: Yeah, it still very much a destination for that community.

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NC: It is. I did have a friend who, who made a reservation there that was not gay [Laughs]
NN: Okay, that may have been a bit of a surprise.
NC: Their, their stories were hysterical.
NN: Yes, but everybody’s perspective is different….
NC: Exactly….
NN: …and it can be very eye opening….
NC: …It is!.
NN: In one of the other interviews, as part of this project was with a couple of owners from The Dunes
Resort….
NC: …Yes.
NN: and, and that’s part of why this whole project is so valuable, is to get all these different points of
view….
NC…Right….
NN: …Of the same time period….
NC: Right, right….
NN: to really stich that….
NC: [speaking over NN] Now are the same owners, do they still own that?
NN: I believe they sold it recently. Within the last….
NC: …well I know they were older….
NN: Yeah, yeah, but they’re still around.
NC: I know.
NN: Which is good.
NC: I didn’t know if they still owned it or not.
NN: Yes. Um, so [pause] you mentioned the different phases kind of….

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NC: …Yes.
NN: In the community. The college students came first. Do you recall anything else about when the town
would be shut down for college weekends?
NC: I mean they, they had to shut it down because you literally could not move. You could not move
through town, you couldn’t bring a car through because there was so many kids in the streets. You
know, it was, it was just really fun and I mean, I was young, I was probably 15 or 16 years old and they
were, you know 18 to 21, you know so they were a lot crazier then I was then but I loved it, it was so
much fun. Just being there, and my parents again, would drop me off you know at the corner, and then
we would walk home so we would have to walk down Blue Star and go all the way around to the other
side because the Ferry would stop running, at 9 or 10 o’clock so that didn’t help us.
NN: Right, so these were late nights?
NC: They were late nights, yes and you didn’t worry about walking around. You know and even with my
own children, they had a lot more freedom here than they did back home. Growing up in, they grew up
in the suburbs of Chicago, but you know we would allow them to stay out, they’d be out till 2 in the
morning with their friends you know, they’d be down at Douglas beach, climbing over the fence you
know to go down there, you just didn’t worry.
NN: Yeah.
NC: You know, and nothing ever happened you know, luckily. So, we were very very lucky. I don’t know
if we’d do that with the grandkids now [laughs] It’s a little different now, you know because you hear
different things that are going on, so, but that’s just the world.
NN: Yeah, yep. Do you recall, even though you were younger do you remember any of the destinations,
or that, that these college students would frequent? Or was, were they just in the street.
NC: It was, they were in the street. They were, it was right by Coral Gables. That whole area like Marro’s,
Coral Gables, um, whatever that store is Good Goods or whatever it is, I always call it Home Goods since
we use that name now. But that whole area, those streets were just filled with kids you know so, and
there weren’t many adults around, very few. There were police, they brought in the state police, they
had brown uniforms on I believe, or whatever color they were. So, they were walking around to take
care of the people that were really intoxicated or on drugs, because drugs were big thing back then.
NN: They were?
NC: Huge thing. Right. That was, that was, very, it was just in the ‘60’s you know, so you got the flower
children.
NN: Right.

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NC: And the college kids were very out spoken back then.
NN: Yeah, well that was….
NC: [Over NN] Kent State, Vietnam….
NN: …It was a, uh, sort of a tenacious time, right?
NC: It was! It really really was you know and like I said, being from my Catholic school I was not involved
in a lot of that so, when I came here it kind of opened my eyes to a lot of different things that I could
see.
NN: Okay. Hmm, which, what was the name of the school that you went to?
NC: I went to Aquinas….
NN: …Okay.
NC: Which was right in Chicago.
NN: Okay, alright. Um, [pause] did, thinking again just sort of real quick about the crazy college times,
did it seem like the Police were in control of the situation?
[00:25:02]
NC: Oh god no!.
NN: Definitely not?
NC: Oh god no, no [laughs] No there was no control, they were just crazy. I mean it was just liquor out
on the streets and people running around, yelling, and just having a great time. You know what, but I
think what the Police did was they contained it to the area.
NN: Oh, okay.
NC: So it didn’t move outwards into the residential area.
NN: Kind of keeping an informal perimeter sort of thing.
NC: Right, right. Do you know because they didn’t want it to go into the residential area where the
families were living?
NN: Right.
NC: So, but it was all in the downtown area.

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NN: Okay, alright, um, so, your family still comes….
NC: …we do….
NN: To Saugatuck, yes?
NC: Yes.
NN: How many people are in the family now? .
NC: Okay, um, in my family let’s see there my husband and I, you have my mother in law, two girls, two
guys, 1, 2, 3, there’s 11 of us and my brother has 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, he has 13. So, and we
share the cottage, I get a week, he gets a week.
NN: Okay. Alright, because I was going to say if there is only 2 bedrooms, that’s a lot of people.
NC: Right, right. We, we tag team and even with my family, when they come up we kind of alternate.
Like my husband will not stay if all the kids are coming up, he and my mother in law go home because
then it’s a little too chaotic for my mother in law at 92.
NN: Absolutely.
NC: You know but, but I will be there with like the grandkids and everything. My oldest grandson is 21 so
he works and is in college so he doesn’t come up as much. But he’s the one that spent most of his life up
here in the summers.
NN: Okay, alright.
NC: He spent his, almost the entire summer here with me, and he was the one that was involved with
like, he went to art colony took classes, he went did sailing, he did swimming here, he had lots of friends
around here, local friends so, his, his life during the summer really revolved around Saugatuck, so….
NN: That’s great.
NC: It is, it’s really nice and it was nice that I could be there to be with him the whole time.
NN: Sure, can you tell me just a little bit about your mother in law, at age 92 she’s been coming here for
quite a while. Okay.
NC: She has! She loves the beach too, she’s a beach person. She grew up in Hyde Park….
NN: Okay.
NC: In Chicago and so she also spent her summers on the beach there.

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NN: Okay.
NC: So, and we have a home now in Florida too, so we, we winter and we spend time on the beach
there. Hence, hence the wrinkles! [Laughs]
NN: Good looking wrinkles.
NC: As it, that’s what happens when you’re in the sun too much.
NN: What is her name?
NC: Her name is Imogene and her last name is Craen. .
NN: Okay, same spelling.
NC: Yes, exactly. Yes and she’s, she’s been with us for um, she’s been living with us for 4 years.
NN: Okay, alright.
NC: So, but she came up here with my mom and dad a lot, after her husband passed away. So she spent
a lot of time up here too with my parents.
NN: Wonderful!.
NC: Yeah, yeah. I mean life is good.
NN: That’s great, that’s great. Um, so I guess looking a little long range now into the future, just thinking
about it. You know, what are your hopes for the future of Saugatuck and this area? .
NC: You know what, I like the direction it’s gone in. It’s, it’s very very nice, I don’t like the Douglas road
now, but [Laughs] other, other than that, I really have no complaints I think that its, it’s become a very
um, I love the arts center, um, I love the plays, there’s so much culture here that you can utilize. It’s
almost like a mini Chicago. I feel like when I come here, you know, you can be exposed to almost
anything and the people that have moved in, their homes are absolutely gorgeous I mean you drive
anywhere throughout the town and everything is kept up beautifully. You know, so I am hoping that it
will continue on that way, we won’t have our drips like we did in the past you know where things have
fallen down a little bit, you know and I’m hoping that we’re going to continue on this path because it’s
really nice, and it’s a great place people come here and they want to move here. You know, I don’t know
how many of my friends have actually become residents here. So, I will never become a resident here
because I, I like Florida and you know, whatever, and I do like Chicago my family’s back there so I will
never live here full time but I spend a lot of time.
NN: But summer.
NC: Right, and and the weeks that I’m not here because my brothers here, I go to Renee’s house.

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NN: Okay. [Both Laugh] and, and just for the record, who is Renee? What’s the relation?
NC: Renee Zita, and that whole family, as you know is just everywhere so they’re wonderful people and
they are my, like my sisters.
NN: Okay, alright, and what is your actual relation to Renee?
NC: As a friend.
NN: As a friend, okay.
NC: Yes, I, I met her mother, Ann when were very young, and in our, she was in her 50’s and I was in my
40’s, I think that’s very young, I’m sure you don’t. But, but we were best friends for many many years
and, then I became friends with all the girls, and her brothers.
NN: Okay, okay, and that was Ann Rinaldi?
NC: Ann Rinaldi, yes.
NN: Alright, okay, um, so keep in mind that….
[00:30:01]
NC: Yes.
NN: That this interview will be saved for a very long time.
NC: Okay!.
NN: Maybe accessed long into the future, so if someone were to listen to this, 40 or 50 years from now
what would you like them to know? What else would you like them to know about the community, or
about your family or?
NC: That there’s no better place, and its home, and I was telling the girl that took my picture, I said you
know when you come in from Chicago when you’re not a full time resident and you pass that Michigan
sign on the expressway you kind of go ‘Ah’, its home, you know, and it is cause you come here and you
basically forget anything that is going on in your life. You just, it’s really a nice place to be, and I can see
why people want to live here because of that, because it is so nice and the community is wonderful, so,
great people.
NN: Good, um, this just prompted one other real quick question, uh, even thinking back to when you
were, when you were very young, um, and coming here, did you always drive? Did your family always
drive?

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NC: We did always drive, yes, no air conditioning. My father drove here, when he was a little boy when
they bought the cottage.
NN: Okay.
NC: They um, I don’t know what kind of cars they drove back then in the 1930’s but I remember him
saying they used to have bring a lot of tires because there was a lot of um, gravel roads that they would
have to travel and it would blow out the tires so they would have to change tires quite often, so but they
had a, they had a car, my father had a car form the time he was born, so.
NN: Okay, alright, because I know the Blue Star Highway was not completed until the late ‘30s.
NC: Right.
NN: And so, before that there were a lot of zigs and zags.
NC: Yes.
NN: Kind of to come up along the lakeshore.
NC: Now when I, when I came up we took um, we took like 1220 and then we went to Red, Red Arrow or
31 whatever it was, there was no expressway.
NN: Right.
NC: So, it did take us from Chicago, took about 3 and half hours.
NN: Okay, to make that trip.
NC: Right.
NN: Before the freeway.
NC: Right, and no air conditioning. [Both laugh]
NN: At least you were close to the lake!.
NC: And luck, luckily there only, you know only two of us in the back seat you know with the line down
the middle of the thing so you didn’t touch each other.
NN: Of course, of course. Dou remember what kind of car that was?
NC: It was um, the first one was a Mercury, like a big old blue Mercury in 1953.
NN: Okay.

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NC: And from there we went to a Comet in 1962, you know, a little cars and after that we got the
Chavelles.
NN: Okay.
NC: That’s when I could drive.
NN: Alright.
NC: I actually learned how to drive here too.
NN: Oh, really?
NC: I did! On Wiley, my father, Wiley and what’s the street where Burger King is? 64th?
NN: 64th.
NC: Okay, when I was really little my dad would put me on his lap on 64th when we’d go to Holland and
he’d let us steer.
NN: Okay.
NC: When I got to be about 10, he took us to Wiley between um, Blue Star and the lake and he would let
us drive, the car. [Both laugh] Up and down Wiley. You know, and then he taught us how to do a threepoint turn where the Miro is, you know that’s, so I learned how to drive here.
NN: That’s fascinating.
NC: I know! Yeah, so by the time I was 16 I was a, you know Hell on wheels. [Both laugh]
NN: No problem. That’s great!.
NC: So it’s been a great place for me.
NN: Okay, couple more questions. Were almost done.
NC: Yes! I’m not in any hurry!.
NN: Okay, um, again thinking that you know, who knows who might listen to this in the future.
NC: Right.
NN: Do you have any thoughts or advise for a younger person who might listen to this tape?
NC: Oh, come here as much as often.

�Nancy Crean - Interviewed by Nathan Neitering
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21

NN: Okay.
NC: I mean, all the time, seriously because it just really refreshes you and makes you feel fantastic.
NN: Very good.
NC: Buy something here. [Laughs] .
NN: Yes, yes.
NC: When the prices are down. [Laughs]
NN: From time to time, hopefully that happens.
NC: Yeah well not now. [Laughs]
NN: Not at the moment, no. Um, and I think the last question is just, is there any other stories you can
think of, any other….
NC: I don’t think so, not that, not that I know right now.
NN: Okay.
NC: If I think of anything I can send them to you.
NN: Please, you know where to find us.
NC: But at this, at this point I can’t. I will talk to my brother and see if he as anything else.
NN: Okay. The other thing, just so you know, as part of this whole project is that, um, we are also
scanning photographs and that sort of thing, so that, and you can take them back….
NC: Right.
NN: …were not keeping them. But this way we sort of have digital records and images that match the
stories that we’re hearing.
NC: Okay.
NN: So um, if you come across any….
NC: I will look.
NN: Scrapbooks, anything.
NC: I have lots and lots of photos in my closet.

�Nancy Crean - Interviewed by Nathan Neitering
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22

NN: Okay. Alright, well Nancy thank you so much for sharing your time and your memories with me, this
concludes our interview.
NC: Thank you.
[00:34:28]

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                <text>Outdoor recreation</text>
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                <text>Motorcycle gangs</text>
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                <text>Gay culture</text>
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                <text>College students</text>
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                <text>Oral history</text>
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                <text>Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University</text>
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          <element elementId="46">
            <name>Relation</name>
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                <text>Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en"&gt;In Copyright&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Sound</text>
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                <text>audio/mp3</text>
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                    <text>Nov 3rd 1861
Dear Sisters
I once more take the opportunity to write you a few lines to inform how we are getting
along. Ansel is still gaining &amp; yesterday was dressed for the first time. Hee is vary poor
&amp; weak but is gaining strength quite fast &amp; probably will soon get around again but will
not be able to do any thing in some time yet. Hee thinks that he cannot come Home this
fall as he has been sick now some time &amp; will loose two months wages &amp; then it would
cost him about one hundred dollars to come as he wants to this season of the year as the
fair [fare] is vary high

�So you will have to wate a little while longer before you see him.
Hee is going to make Ezekiel a visit as soon as he gitts able to travile &amp; I think of young
the same time There is no news to write that I think of as we have got no letters from any
one since my last to you.
Do you know any thing about Ansel where he is or what he is at if you do tell me in your
next letter. Does Emily hear any thing from Malvina lately if you know pleas write in
your next &amp; all the rest of the news that you think of. How glad I am that I have got a
little sis to write to &amp; to receive a letter from &amp; you need not worry about paying for the
little favors that we send you as we

�consider them more than paid already. And at any time you want more let me know &amp;
you shall have it. Hoping to hear from you soon &amp; that you are still enjoying good health
I remain your affectionate
Brother
David M. Elliott
Direct to New Lisbon
Jueneau Co
Wis

�</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472"&gt;Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470"&gt;John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471"&gt;Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478"&gt;Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476"&gt;Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479"&gt;Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en"&gt;No Copyright - United States&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>La Crosse (Wis.)</text>
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                <text>Wisconsin</text>
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                <text>Schuyler County (N.Y.)</text>
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          <element elementId="41">
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                <text>Letter from David M. Elliott to his sisters in New York, describing life in Wisconsin and asking for news from home. Sent with an envelope with impression of Abraham Lincoln and Hannibal Hamlin stamped on the front.</text>
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          <element elementId="47">
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                <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en"&gt;No Copyright - United States&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>Grand Valley State University Photographs</text>
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              <description>The topic of the resource</description>
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