729 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/caa823032f92bd957c40da47b2d29293.pdf 37e97e960b38adc0dbdd2d5567b01cfc PDF Text Text AB N9 89211 NEDERLAND INTERNATIONAAL VERKEER MET MOTORRIJTUIGEN INTERNATIONAAL RIJBEWIJS Intern ationaal Verdrag van 24 April 1926. Geldig gedurende 1 jaar na datum van afgifte. Afgifte vai;t het ;Rijbewijs; Pia :\ &-...J - ---~- ..:... -- - ~ i <.. ,. "': ..................... ~ -=t \ - �- 2 - m~~. r!1:::1i:d~ i,~lra::.~:\ik~::Dv~':i:1d~· d--;.·;~:t::·ru~1·cd~ ::~rvb;; besturen van motorrll tulg e 11, behorende tot de categorie o! de categorleia - 3 - 0 b edoeld op blczdsijde 3 t. LIJST VAN VEiDB.AGSTATEN. Albanll Brit• Hondura1 Argenttnl6 Belg16 Brlt1 Malaya Belgl1ch Congo en mandaatgebied R.uanda-Urundl Birma Broslllê ~!fftarlJ• Cuba Denemarken Duitsland Egypte Elre floland Franlr.rtJlr. Alglen Fr. fr. fr. fr. Fr. Equatoriaal Afrt.k.a Guyana lodlt Somallland West-Afrika Guadeloupe lodo China Kameroen Madaga.acar Marokko ~1C:u~ 1C~edont6 Oceanl6 R~h1nlon Togo Tunis Griekenland Groot-Brlttcmoil en N .• Ierland Aden Alderney, GuemeHy en Jeney Bahama Archipel Btn\lloland Bechuanaland Brits Noord-Borneo Brlt1 Somaliland Ceyl_on fJ!:~ Man Gambla en A,hanU 1 Gibraltar Goudkust Hongkong Jamaica {inbegrepen de Turks -, Calcoa• en Cayman-eUanden) Kenya Malta Maurltlu • Newfoundland Nlgerla lkolonle, pro• tectoraat en Kame• roen onder Brltt ma.n• daal) .Nyasaland Rhodella (Noord en Zuid) Seychellen Sierra Leone (KoloDle en protectoraat) ~~~~E:!d Tanganyika Togo Trlnldad en Tobago ~~d~':ird.ellanden Grenada, St. Lucla en St. Vincent Zanz.lbar Hongarije India hrai l ltallë Libanon Llchtensteln Luxemburg Mexico Monaco Nederland Ned erlandse Antille n Noorwegen Oostenrijk GEGEVENS OMTRENT DE BESTU URDER. Paklll Oll Pale1llna Per u Pen:Jê Polen Portug al me t A.ngola en Moza mbique Ro emenië San Marino Stam S0V1et Rusland Spaans Marokko Spanje Suriname Syrlê Tanger (Intern . z6ne) T11ecbo-Slowa.klJe Turkije Unie Yan Zuid-Afrika ~:io~:ozyr~ll:,a~ttal, Transvaal) Uruguay Vaticaanse Staat IJsland Zuld-Slavl6 Zuld-We1t. Afrlka Zweden Zwltaerland lndone • l6 lralr. •cl.!f.:•::t d°f ::i7ct~~•~~a~~:t r~1't~~~!• r~:::: ~ncberkeob~~lf~ d~J:~~!b!:! w etten en reglementen betrellendt:t de veatlglng oÎ de uitoefening van een beroep , welk e gelden 1n dat land, waar hlJ aan het Yerkeer deelneemt. Naam: {l) Voornamen : (2) Geboorteplaats: (8) Datum van geboorte: . (4) Woonplaats: .... (5) �- - 6 - 7 - (Nama des Landes) (name of country) AUSSCBLIESSlJNG EXCLUSION Dem (Namen und Vornameni ························----der vorstehend durch die Behörde von (Land)······-···········-·-···· einen internat1onalen Führersche10 erbaJten hat, wird das Recht. Krartrabrzeuge au! dem Gebiete des rLand1 ...... __... . zu führen . aberkannt, weil .......·-•-·······-········ ..·····················.. ·····... Ort·-···········----··························-··Tag: -··-··············-··········-·-····---Unterschri~: ANGABEN ÜBER DEN FÜHRER F1u Llchtbild siehe hier oben 1Seite S) Name: - - - - -.. ·-·- -···- 111 M. (surname and other names1 ...... __ --······... authorised as above by the au t.hority of rcountry, .....is deprived 01 the right to dl'ive m /country! ... . by reason or ..... Place: Da te: .. Signature: PARTICULARS CONCERNING THE DRIVER For the photograph, see above (page 81 Surname: ................................. (Il Vorname: ----············-12l Other oames: ..... Ort der Oeburt: _ _ _ fSl Place or birth: Tag der Oeburt: (4J Wohnort: ................... ·----···--···- (Il> Date of birth: .....•. ......... 121 181 . 14) Home address: -······• .... · ···-·· (51 �- - 8 - (La.ndeta namn) (Landets Navn) Fratagelse af F9rerretten Hr. (Efternav n og Fornavne) •....... som ifolge foranstaaende har fa ael F0rerbevis af Myndighedel'll e i (Land) .........•............................... .............. fra lages Rellen til a l fore Mo tork 0ret 0j i (Land) ---·········· . paa Grund af ........................................................ . Sted : Dato : ........ Underskrift :. 9 - lndragning av rltt att g6ra brult av internationellt k6rkort. liert (tillnamnet och förnamnen> ············ - - - -··························· • som enligt ovanstäende erhêUit in ternationelll körkorl gen.om myndighet i (land • .......... .................... . har fràntagits rätten atl föra automobil inom (lands! .............. omráde till följd av :....................................................................... Ort: Dag: Underslcr,ft: OPL YSNING ER AN GAAENDE F0REREN Til Fotografi, se loran (Side 8) UPPL YSNJNGAR OM FÖRAREN Fotografiet finnes ovan (sid. 81 Efternavn: ................................ (1) Tillnamnet ...........................•..... Il) Fornavne : ............................... (2) Fedested : ······························ .. (S) Fedselsaar og-Dato : ............ (4) Bopllll: ·································· 'li) ,Förnamnen ············-··················· 121 Födelseort •................................. rai Födelsedag ......................... ....... 141 Bostad - ····•··•·· ·················· 151 �- - 10 - 11 - (ainm na Îlre) (landets navn) FRATAGELSE AV RETIEN TIL A VAERE FÖRIR cosc Jlerr (navn og tornavn) ............................................... som ifölge toranstáende er godkjcnt som förer av myndighet i ()and) .................................. er fratatt rellen tïl ä före motorkjöretöi innen (lands) ................. ......................... . omràde pä grunn av .............................•......•.......... Baintear de !sloinne agus ainmneacha eile) ··················-·············· .................................... do hûdarulodh mar adeirlear thuas ag ûdarás (tfr) ···········•·················•···········-······························· a cheart chun tiomána i (llr) .......... ··-··· ..... ·-········· ............ toisc gur -··········•······························••·•·········•·····-·········-···············•·· Ait: ·····•············································-····· Dáta: ...................................... _ _ __ Sted: ............................................ . Datum: ..................................... . U11derskrift: Sighnir1, EOLAS MAR GHEALL AR AN TlOMÁNA/ OPL YSNINGER OM FÖREREN Apen plass til rotografi som pä side Navn: ....... . Fornavn: s. Ta an Ohriandealbh ar leathanach S. ........... (1) Sloinne: ·······-··························· (1) (21 Ain mneacha eile: .................... (2) Födested : ················-················ (31 Ait Bheireatais: ...................... (3) Födselsdag :. ··············- ··-··•····-· 14) Data Bheireatais: .................... (4î· Bosted: ............. ......................... {.5) Ait Chomhnuithe: .....•.......... (5) �- - 12 - 13 - ····••··•················-··-------- (nombre del pais) (neme do pais) llllU.BILIT A.CIOII D. (nombre y apellidos, ............................................................ --···· autorizado por este permiso expedido en ................................ . queda iohabilitado para conducir en el territorio de (pais •········································· ..···········································-································· - - - - --····························································•····· Lugar: ························-···································••·· Fecl)a · ·············-··················································· Firma: EXCLUS,AO 0 Sr. (nome e apelidos1 .... autorizado conforme dêste consta pela autoridade do (pais/ . fica privado do direito de conduzir no território do (pais/ ......... . pelo motivo de ................................ ............. ..... .... .................... Lugar: Data : . Assinatura: FILIACIQN DEL CONDUCTOR INDI CAÇÖES RELATIVAS AO CONDUCTOR (Para la fotogra·ria, veàse pagina S) Apellidos ................................... (1) Para a lotografia, ver o que se diz a I pag. 31 Nome: -· (11 Nombre -···················-············· (2) Apelidos: (2J Lugar de nacimiento ............ (8) _Lugar 4o nascimento : (Sl Fecha de nacimienlo ............ (4) Data do nascimento: .. .. Domicilio ·························--- (6) Domicilio: (4) ··- (5) �- 14 - - 15 - (noma del paes• ) {az ország neve) ESCLUSIONE K.IZARAS Il signot 1cognome e nome) ....................................................... . autorizzato come sopra dalla Autorità di (paese) ................ é decaduto dal chritto di condurre nel terrilor10 di (paesel: in conseguenza di ................................................................................... . ..................................................................... (Vezeték és keresztnév) ............................ rorszàgnonJ nyert a vezetéstöl aki engedélyt ....... . rorszàgJ területén eltiltattot .... miatt. Luogo :...................... ················-······.. Data: .............. . Firma: Hely: .. Kelet : Airs : INDlCAZlONl RELATlVE AL CONDUCENTE A VEZETORE VONATKOZO ADATOK Per Ja lotografia vedere sopra (pag. 81 A fénykép részére lásd a 8. oldalt. Nome: ...................................... (1) Cognome: .................................. (2) Vezetéknév: ................................ (IJ Keresztnév: ................................ (2) Luogo di nascila: .................... 13) Születési hely: (S) Data di nascita: ···············-··· .. 14) Születési év.: ............. . (4) Domicilio: ................................... - (l>J Lakóhely · .................................. (5) �- 16 - - 17 - ····--·-···-···-·•····-- - - - - -- (nazwa k.raju) (Jméno státu) WYltLUCZENIB VYLOUCENI RIDÎCE, P. (nazwlako i lmiQI ··············•·••·····•·····················-·········-················· uprawniony powytej przez wtadze (kraju) ............................... &oatal pozbawiony prawa prowadzenia na obsurz (kraju) Pan (ptljmeni a jméno) .................................................... ......... zmocn~ny nahof ûfadem (slátu) . .... . jesl zbaven oprävnënl r-iditi na ûzemi slálu -····················--- - - - · · ···············································-··············· powodu z loho dûvodu, fe ...................... .................................................... . .. Miejsoe • ·····-·······································-····-·········· Data· ·····-··-··-·················-···-·······-··-··········-- Misto: ......... Den: Podpt3: Podpu: DANE DOTYCZACE KJEROWCY Fotografja patrz poprzednio 1str. Nazwisko: ········-··············-····· (11 lmiQ: ··············-········-····-·········· (!Il Miejsce urodzenia: ······•··-········ (Bl s1. UOAJE O rtio1C1. Podobenku viz vpfedu lslrana 8). Pfljmeni :. Jméno: ., ........... . .. (l) . (2) .Miato narozeni : ....... ................. (S) Data urodzepia: ....................... (tl Den narozeni : .............................. (4) Mieisce zamieszk.: .................... (lil Bydlistê: ......................................... (5) �- 18 - - -------------------------(numele torel) 19 - (lme z.emlJe) \ I EXCLUDERE D. (numele ~i pronumele) ........ ............................................ - ..autorizat mai sus de autoritatea din {Tara) ...................._ este decäzut din dreptul de-a conduce pe teritoriul (Tara) ISK.LJUCENJE 0 . (ime i prezime) .................. _ _ __ _ _ _ __ ovlaséenom gore od vlasti (zemlja) ....................................... oduzeto Je pravo da tera automobiJ na teritoriji (zemljaJ din cauza cä ..................... .. zbog ......................... Mesto: .............. -. .................. _. __...................... Datum· .........·--···· ............................................. Potpi#; Locul: ... ... --··---· - ······.. ······Data· ............................................ _ _ __ Semn4tura; PODATCI KOJI SE ODNOSE NA TERAOCA INDICAT!UNI RELATlVE LA CONDUCATOR Pen tru fotografie, vedeti pagina 8-a. l Za lotogra!iju vidi gore 1strana 81 Numele :......................................... (1) j !me: - - - - - · · · · • --·· (lJ Pronumele: ................................. (2) Prezime: .............. - - - -·-·· (il Locul na~terei :.........:............. (8) Mesto rodjenja ......... Data na~terei: ...................... . (4) Dan rodjenja ............................... (., Uomiciliul : ............................... Stalno mesto prebivanja ........ (51 (5) .... (81 �- 20 - - 21 - nHWABAtlE 0Tb nPABO 3A KAPAHE HA ABTOM06Hn'b AnArOPEYl:IE '0 K. r•""l-'4 ...1 inw,n,p.o-,,) .•._ ___ _ _ __ _ _ w, hwtlpw ciotiov nopd. tij, •Ap)(ij; ,oa (Kpcitou;) .... ........• •········.. ···········.........._.......... _,,_ IUtctroptûna.1 wei ólhrrii ,ö ClÛtoXlVTJTO'f' hti toü !Sáfou, t oü (Kpd.tou1) ................ ............................................. 1-óyw .......... ...................................................................................................... <)(WY Tónoç : ·············- ···-·······-····-····························' Hl"P•!L'l•lo i -······- - - - •y"oyp11",j 1 tXETIKAI ENAEISEll: TOY OAHfOY r.(HMennpeanMe)------ - --- - ----- - - - -- - K0MyTo e paapeweeo on enacTLTa na. (n1,pmaeaTa) - --------Aa napa aeToMo6nm., ce nnwaea on npaaoTo Aa ynpae11nea TQK"LB1, e1,pxy T8pHT0pHl!Ta Ha (111,p,KanaTa) --- - - - -----no npu'loea ea - - - - -- -- ---- - ------------ - - - - MilcTo -------- ----- ------JlaTa - - - ----- -------noèJnut:1> : CBE,D;EH11R 3A lllO<l>bOPA 3a q>OTOrpaq>HRTQ Bll)K1, DO rop·h (CTp. S) .(1) HMe - ··- - - - -- ------ (1) 'Eni.:._,..,_: - --·············---··..!2) Ilpeanue - - -- - -- (2) Tónoç Y"•~~w, : -v••·················(3) MilCT0p0111AOBH8 ------ (3) ~povoÀoyi11 y•••~a,w;: ..............(4) .ll;aTll aa Pllll(AaB8TO - K11,o.-i.. : ....................... ................(5) MilCT0IKHT811CTBO------ (5) (4) �- 22 - (Valstybés pavadJntmas) - 23 - -----·--··--·-----·-···----·--·· (valsts nosaulcums) TEIS111 A TE1'111'1AS IZSLEGSANA B pil. (pavardé ir vardas1 .................................................................. turinCio autove!imams valdyti leidima lsduotQ jam (Uzvärds un värdi) ...................................................... kungam, kam (valsls) ...................,................................................ ieslàdes ir devusas aqauju .......... ................................ . ir alnemtas vadïsanas tiesibas (valsls) :........... . ................................ .................................. territorijä sekosu iemeslu dêl ................. ........................ ................ ............................. . Vieta· .............................................................__ Diena : ................................................................. (vals\ybé) .................. . ...... ··················atimto teisé autove!imams valdyti (valstybél - ·················· teritorijoje dèl ....................................................................................... ~ \:::_) Vieta: _ _ _ _ ·················-············...······Data• .................................... _ _ _ __ ParaJa,: AUTOMOBIL! VALDANèIO ASMENS ZYMÈS AtvaizdQ, iiürék auks Ciau (puslapis SI Pavardé .......................................... (11 Vardas ·-······-·······-······-······ (2J Gimimo vieta ........................ (81 Oimimo data............................. (41 Oyvenamoji vieta ................._ (lil Po.raksts: ZINAS PAR VADITAJU Attiecibä uz rotografiju sk. S. lp . p. Uzvärds: ................................... (1) Vardi: .......................................... (2) .Dzimsanas vie la: .................... (3) Dzimsan~s die na: .................... (4) Dzïves vieta: .......................... (5) �- 24 - - 25 - ········-···------·-········· (R1~~;;;~atu1) EÖRV ALDAMINE Härra fnimi ja eesnimi) ·····················································································--··············· ii~·~·ÏiÏ~Ï~~~Ï·seÏJeks · Oigustatud ........ ·····················--······ (riigil am etivöimu poolt, on kaolanud juhtimise 6iguse ·······:··· ···:·· ·············································-··························· riigi territoor1umil ................................................................................... pöhjusel. Koht: . ··················-········· ..... ............... Kuupäev: AUkiri: (maan nlml) J[1JLJETTAJAN EROTTAMINEN Herra fsuku• ja ristim änime~J •::::::·.::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::·::·ïi;;·: '.on ka, kulen edell ä o~· mainittu , on hyvä ksy nyt (maan ) . :· .. . ..... v1ra noma1• ~~is ~i k~~s kuljeltaa aulomobiilia (maa n J. . ' _. .............................. . ... alueella .. ··-•··•············· perusteella Pai kka .......................................... · Aika ......................... ·•·················•····-··················· All, kirjoitus: ~~~··~Ï;t;;~ ANDMED JUHI KOHTA KULJETTAJAA KOSK EVI A TIETOJA Päevapildi koht, vaata ülal (lehek. 9), Nimi =-·············-··············· ·-····-···· (11 Val okuvaa n nä hden kts . siv. 9 Eesnimed: ··•··•·············-·········· . (il Sukunim i: ...... ..... (1) Sündimise koht: .................. . (BI Risti mänjme t : ...... (2) Sündimise aeg: ........................... (4) Sy nty mäpa ikka : .................. (8) Elukoht: ......................................... (Il) Sy nty mäa ika: ........................ (4) Ko t ipa ikk a: .. -. (5) �- 26 - - 27 - .JJ-111 ...., f: _,,.a:)l •UI r. - -- - - - - - - - -- (.....ï.OlJ ,... \tl) •/'4'" _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ( .JJ-llt,..,1 l..r .~,1 .J c.,...ll - - - - - -( .JJ-111 _,.. l) ..r') J< ••½•IIJ..,.. kL..,; - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - ...,L.~ • • (,j,IUl .IIHII • 118BR)--- - ------ - - ----• AOIIYJIIBBBYlll, KI.IC Bwme TKHIBO, IIJIICTRIIR (CTJ)BHI) ---- - - namee apaaa JDJU11U1ee• .11 ea ttppnopan (CTpana) --------118 OCBOBa.BHR - - - - - -- -- -- - - - -- - - - - : .jK).I - -- - - - - -- - - - - - -- 8 ,l _ _ _..'/1 Jw~ :..-t; - .:.!:½-. : ~- Ji;Jl Mec,oo - ---- - - ----- -- - --- - - - - A 'A•TI --------------·-·• ------Qo4nuct: • ~ CBE,l{EHIUI O BO,ItttTEJIE 0 tOTOrpa,f,1111 CIIDTJIB awue (CTP8HH1t8 3) ÎDllllllJIBff _ _ ----- - - - - - - ,... 'yl ( \) _lUI (1) H11eaa _______________ (2) ,'l'._=11y 1' , (") MeCTO p0>KJ18HIUI - ----- (3) ,">1,11 (:'.)~ (:) ]laTa PO>KAeHHII - --·-·--- (4) ~-Ü' '.) ~BÇTO IIIHTeJll,CTBI - ---• (5) �- 28 - - 29 - ················••·············· - - - - - -- ······························- - - - - (• mnt I Shtetlt (m•mleht1n isml) PEBJA.SBTIM OTOMOBIL KULLANMAK HAKKININ SUKUTU Z. (Mbiemni e Emni) _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ __ qekamarre lejen konduklimil pre Autorilelve L Lo (Shtelil (memleketi) makamab tarafmdan araba kull anmaga mezun k1hnan ...... _ _ __ ........................... ....................................... Efendi (isim ve mahlesi) _____ ................................................................................................ . i heqel a drejta konduktimiL ne (ShLeli) _ __ per shkak se _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ __ .. ..................... .............. ____ ......................... __ ......... .............. Mahal : Tarih: Vendi : Data: - - - - - ............................................. l=a: N ene, hkrwu: ARABAYI KULLANAN HAKKINDA MALOMAT NJOF TIME MBI PRIJESIN Fotograf için yukar1ya mül'acaat (sahife 8). Per fo togra!in sh,4001 Faqe N. 8 _ _ __ _ _ _ (l) Mbiemni: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (l) isim : Emni : ... _ _ _ _ .................... 12) llahles: ........................................ (2) Vendi i lindjes: ........................... (8) Dogum yeri : _ _ _ _ _ (I) Data i lindjes : Dogum tarihi: (4) Vendi i banimit: _ _ _ _ _ (11) _ dolayi ................................. ........ ........................................... (meml~11.e t) arazisinde araba kullanmak hakkmdan iskat edilrnistir. lkametglh: _ __ ... l'l ... ... (G) �- 30 - - 31 - • A. - Motorrijtuigen, die beladen een gewicht hebben van niet meer dan 3.500 kilogrammen (art. 7). B . - Motorrijtuigen, die beladen een gewicht hebben van meer dan 3.500 kilogrammen (art. 7). o. - Motorrijwielen met of zonder zijspan. ......... ....... .. ...... ....... .... ......... cJ.r"1:.r~,~J.s11r ~),.f,;.;1., •.:,~ . ....... . .. ........ ........ ... (,,.:5)-Y.""' .,...,._~ A. - "Automobiles dont Ie poids en charge (art. 7) n'excède pas 3.500 kilogs. B . - Automobiles dont Je poids en charge (art. 7) excède 3.500 kilogs. o. - Motocyclettes, avec ou sans side-car. ................................. "-':"'"') .u"'· A. - ;.,J-_..,iJ .i.-..:1.'". ... ..... ............ .. ..... ... ( ,,.:5) ,,1 J.wl.,~ B. - ............... .... J- c. - KrafLfahrzeuge, deren Gesamtgewicht (Artikel 7) 3.500 Kilogramm nicht übersteigt. Kraftlahrzeuge, deren Gesamtgewlcht (Artikel 7) 3.500 Kilogramm übersteigt . Krafträder, mit oder ohoe Belwagen. ......... ........ ë--,~ A . - Motor vehlcles of which the laden welght (art. 7) B. - 1..1 o. A. B. - ,..J-1 J.r,;i:.r~ - , ..J.,rJ--t ..,.,.t'. . ~ ~ \ ;..;J.,;,.. - • o. - does not exceed 3.500 kilogs. Motor vehlcles of whlch the laden weight (art. '1) exceeds 3.500 kilogs. Motor-cycles, with or without sidecar. Automobiler, hvis st~rste Vmgt med fwd Last ikke overstiger 3,500 kg (Art. 7). Antomobiler, hvis st~rste Vaigt med fnld Last overstiger 3,500 kg. Motorc:ykler med eller ndun Sldevogn. A. - Automobiler, vilka1 vikt med laat (art. 7) iclie öven&iger 3,500 kilogram • B. - ,t\utomobiler, vilkas vikt-med last (art. 7) över1ti,er 3,500 kilogram. C. - Motorcyklar rned ,lier utan lidova,rn. �• - 33 - - 32 - .A. - Automobller, hYls vekL med full laat (artlkkel 1) B, - O. - ikke er over 3500 kilogram. Automobiler, hvis vekt med full laat (art.ikkel 7) er over 3500 kilogram. Moioraykkel med eller uten sidevogn. A. - Samochody, których calkowita .... (art. 7) nia 116t.ar-fheithicll nà blonn os clonn 3.500 Cllograma (AirUogal 7) meáchainte ionta agus iad fé ualach. B. - M6t.ar-fhe!Uticll go mb!onn os cionn 3.500 cilograma (AirUogal 7) meáçhainte ionta agus iad fé ualach. o. - M6t.ar-rothair go dtaobn-charr no ina éamnis. A. - A. - Automóvilea cuyo petO, cargadoa, (art. 7) no esc:eda de 3,500 kg. B. - Automóvil" cuyo petO, cargadot, (art. 7) uc:eda de 3,500 liiloa C. - Motocicletas con o IÎD coc:hec:illd Jateral, A, - Autom6veis cujo pëso com a carga (art. 7.•) n!o exceda 3500 qullogramas. Autom6veis cu)o pêso com. a carga (art. 7,•) exceda 3500 qullogramaa. Motoclcletas, com on sem « slde-car "· Automohlll Il col peso a carico (art. 7) non eccede i 3.500 kg. ' Automoblll Il cni peso a caricG (art. 7) eccede i 3.500 kg. Motoclcll, con o seuza .carrOIZlno laterale. B. - o. A, - B. O. - A. - Aatamobily kteri plnl utilentl n"üf vice nel 3500 kg • 8, - Automobily které plnë zatifené vüi vice nef 3.500 k1 C.- Motocyld apfiv&nfm vozikem nebo bez aiho. A, - 0111111 gépjuóm&vek, melyek eJegynlya (1. 1 7, c:il,ket) przelaacza 3,500 klg. B. - Samochody, których calkowita waga (art. 7) przekracza 3,500 kilogramów. C. - Motocylde z bocznemi wózkami lub bez nich. Aatomobile • càror greatate, complact lnc:ircata (an. 7) nu depiteac 3.500 kgr. 8. - Aatomobile • càror areutate, compleet ûacärcata (an. 7) depi'8&e 3.500 kar. C. - Motocyclete, oa an firi atat (side-c:ar) A, - A. - Aatomobili éija tetina kad sa natovareai ne pramala 3.500 ,liilograma (flan 7). 8. - Aatomobili Bja teiina bd 1111 natovareni premala 3.500 kilograma (flan 7). C. - Motocildi, À prikolicama ili bez njih. A. - e. O. - A. - J-L"" Autox!v11<<1 t/;lv 6'to!•» td ~c!po1 ,oü fOpt(ov twv (&pOpov 7) 61v ~1t1p~11(vu tci 3500 JtlÀ. AutOXtY1\îll t/;lv bno(wv t6 ~cipo1 l'-"'f toil fOpt!ov (<l.pOpdll 7) ~~, p~11im «:i 3500 x_,À. AixuxÀ11 r.06~À<1t<1 11utox(Y1JU 11-nii XIYT\t~poç fJ-Ct4 ~ &v; u 1tÀa.7(01,1 xa.8!at,111to, . . •w• • ABTOMOCIHJIH, qHftTO TR)l(eCTb, HaTO apeHN, (qn, He HBAMHHBBI 3.500 kg-ot meg nem halad. B. - Oly11111tSpj,r6müvek, melyek elegyaulya (1. a 7. cikket) B. - nagyobb, mint 3.500 kgr. C. - Motorkerikpu ol dalkocsival, vqy D611dlL c. - 3.500 ABTOMOGHJIH, 'IHRTO TR>KeCTb, HBTOBBpeHH, (qn, RIAMHHBBB l) KHJIOrpaMa. 3.500 KHJIOrpaMa. M0T0Ul!KJleTH ~ HJIH Ge3"b KOW"b, ?) �- 34 A, A. - B. - C. - Aatomobilie, kurio prikrauto ITON amriija 3.500 lig. Automobilil, brio prikrauto 1Toria ririija 3.500 lig. Motoc:ildu 111 priebba ar be jos. Automobili, bra nare ar baV'II (1; pants) ~epära~edz 3.500 kg, • B. - Automobili kuru avars ar kravu (J. pants) pärsniedz ' ' 3.500 kg, ' A. - C. - Motocikleti, ar vai bez blakus ratiem. A. - Automobülid, millede raskus täie koormaga (art. 7) ei llleta 3,500 kilogr. 8. - Automobiilid, millede raskus tiie l:oormap (art. 7) ületab 3,500 kilogr. C. - Mototsüklid külje koniga vöi ilma. A, - Automobülit, joiden paino kuormitettuina (J art.) ei nouse 3,500 kiloon. B. - Automobülit, joiden paino kuormitettuina nousee yli 3,500 kilon, C. - Moottoripyörät aivuvaunuineen tai i1man 1itä. .:_r ( V i>\..11 ) .if .,•J 1~ jJ ~). 'J jl ,;,,I );..JI -• ,\ · r'~;.f "''. -~ V ö,UI) ~ J"J. l;jJ ~./. . ,,.,.. ;[ .... . )1 .:,.l):.JI ~,.J. ,1 ()(-":--) jl..' ..s"½- .. _... ..:,1; .·,';16:'_-, >1' B - c. n. C. " B C A, B, c. A, B, C. �- - 35 - Molorová _v ozidla, j ichz váha se za lfze oim (tl. 7) nepi-evysu j e 3,500 kg. Motorov á voz idla, jichi vá ha se za tizenim (t l. 7) prevysuj c 3,500 kg_ Motocykl y se sidecare m nebo b ez nêh o_ A, - A. Aatomobilla, lmrio prikraato H'orÎII Deviriija [l_ - 3.500 kg. Automobilia, brio prikrauto 1voria ririija 8. 3.500 lig. C. - MotocWu III priebba ar be jot, A. - AutomobiJi, kuru man ar l:ravu (7: pants) ~epärsciedz 3.500 kg, • B. - Automobili kuru svars ar kravu (7. pants) pärsuiedz ' ' 3.500 kg. ' C. - Motocikleti, ar vai bez blalius ratiem. A. - B. - C. - Automobiilid, millede raskus täie koormaga (art 7) ei ületa 3,500 kilogr. Automobiilid, millede raskus täie koormaga (art. 7) ületab 3,500 kilogr. Mototsüklid külje koniga vöi ilma. A, - Automobiilit, joiden paino kuormitettuina (7 art.) ei nouse 3,500 kiloou. B. - Automobiilit, joiden paino kuormitettuina noosee yÜ 3,500 kilon, C. - Moottoripyörät 1ivuvaonuineen tai i1man 1itä. .:...r ( V .,UI ) .if .,,.J 1,:.iJ ~.i. 'J jl ..:..i }:...ll -· ,\ ö,Ul) ~ ~J- . ,1.,. ~J.,. ,t ()(-',-) jL,! C_ - All'TO • OIIRIIII, A. B. lee l(OTOpblX C Rlrp)'3KOI (CT, 7) RO npeawwaeT 3.500 KHIIOrpaMMOB, A BTOlllOIIHIIH, aec K0T0pblX c Harpy3KOlt (CT, 7) c-. - MoTOQHKJI LI A. - B. C. A. - B. - c_- npeBblWBeT C 3.500 KIIII0rpaMIII0B, KOn11cKon HIIH Gea TaKOBOR, Autom oLila t ë ng:arkurw me pubë jo ma abu.më •• 3500 kilo. Automohila të ngarkurm që peshojoe ma ehumë t e 3500 kilo. Motoçiklcta me o•t' pa • idrcar. Y0k l0 olarak slkletl S~D0 klloyu t ecav0z elmlyen otomoblller (M dde_ 7) (Her llsanda) Y0 klü ola ra k slkletl S500 kll oyu tecav0z eden otomoblller (M adde 7) (Her llsanda) Sepe111 veya sepet slz motosl kletler. /Her llsanda) '· :...,l:,,r',f}.frr,, , .)(y"l.),J.:....,JL_L_41t1:,.,._.;l .A .....w.,.. ~l,Jr!f,Lfro .. :,I ( yuL) .,t...;.,,L.~4 ~,,1 _ ..... w.,. . r'r. i,f.., .. -~ ( V 36 - 34 - L,:_;, .,tf" ..... ..._.✓- jl ..:.,l;l-;--fl _ B ..s•~ .,_ __., ..:.,1.; , -,~-y til - C, 8 , , {. .,,.._""{ "' ~. d. .. (3) -· _ (4l -(5) __ ~~-f - e_ h . i ---~-.3.-~----' j-L~ ------·--------·-·--·-- ----------- J1_ .l_}i_fM..a..C\.._ _ - - --- --. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman) Termaat, Peter N. Description An account of the resource Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar. Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1869 - 2012 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144</a> Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945 World War, 1939-1945 World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands Dutch Dutch Americans Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text Image Type The nature or genre of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng nl Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144_Termaat_DOC_1951-06-08-International-drivers-license-Pieter-404 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nederland. Internationaal Verkeer Met Motor-Rijtuigen Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1951-06-08 Title A name given to the resource Pieter Termaat International Drivers License Description An account of the resource International driver license of Pieter N. Termaat, issued 8 June 1951. In Dutch. Subject The topic of the resource Dutch Netherlands Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource nl Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/81b79e43b25f3b8222e9127d7dd91cf9.pdf 0abd265594cc082b2778fcfc18c81df6 PDF Text Text Pµntenlijstj e Nederlandsche Vereeniging voor Gemeentebelangen Examen Maatschappelijk Werker 194 ...... Candidaat r. / LA~ . (No. J"fJ ) Schriftelijk gedeelte ···· · Jl . . ... .. Vak a Opstel Vak b Adviezen Vak c Rapport Vak d Boekhouden ... ] .......... . ...........6 ............... ··········l············ Mo ndeling gedeelte Vak a Maatschappelijke verhoudingen ·······~ ····· Vak b Nederlandsche staatsinrichting en wetgeving . . . b. Vak c Maatschappelijk steunwezen ... . ..8.. . .. Vak d Arbeidsbemiddeling, Werkloosheidsverzekering Vake Steunverleening, Werkverruiming (Parafen :) ····~ · · ········ ···· Zij,die afschriften van hun diploma verlangen, behooren d ie zelf te maken en ter waarmerking voor eensluidendheid te zenden aan den Secretaris der Examencommissie, den heer J. C. BAUMANN, H oogwer:flaan 5, 's- Gravenhage . Gefrankeerde enveloppe met adres van afzender bijsluiten. De dip loma's zijn geteekend door: M r. J. N. J. E. HEERKENS THIJSSEN, Voorzitter BAUMANN, Secretaris K 5:1 �Nederlandsche Vereeniging voor Gemeentebelangen Examen Maatschappelijk Werker 194.. i. In verband met den uitslag van Uw schriftelijk examen heb ik het genoegen U mede te deelen, dat U tot het mondeling examen bent toegelaten. De bij het schriftelijk examen behaalde punten zijn voor: Vak a Opstel Vak b Adviezen Vak c. Rapport Vak d Boekhouden ·········~··· .. 7. . , ~ -.. / .. ..--·· .... De Secretaris der Examencommissie, BAUMANN. Den Heer Met- ~ .,. î . .............)'17) ..-:.........~ ........... ··········· ~·········~·d; te ············ · · · · ~··· ············· ·· K 53 �Oproeping candidaten Nederlandsche Vereeniging voor Gemeentebelangen No. ..J.,.7Den Heer Examen 1941 M., Naar aanleiding van uw aangifte heb ik de eer U uit te noodigen op Woensdag 1 October a.s. te 9.30 en Donderdag 2 October a.s. te 10 uur schriftelijk examen te komen afleggen in de plaats hieronder met een streepje (- ) aangegeven. _ Het examen wordt gehouden te: Groningen in het Concerthuis, Poelestraat 30. Zwolle in de concertzaal in het gebouw "Odeon". Arnhem in de Volksuniversiteit, Rijnstraat 42. Venlo in een zaal van Café--restaurant National, Keulsche Poort no. 4. Breda in het Café~restaurant "Moderne", hoek Markt~ Veemarktstraat. 's-Gravenhage in een zaal van "Amicitia", Westeinde 15. Amsterdam in Hotel-restaurant Krasnapolsky, Warmoesstraat. De tweede examendag is uitsluitend bestemd voor het onderdeel Boekhouden. Zij, die voor dit vak vrijstelling genieten, hebben dus slechts op één dag examen. Gelieve pen, potlood en liniaal zelf mede te brengen. Het schriftelijk examenwerk mag naar keuze van den candidaat gemaakt worden in de spelling de Vries en te Winkel of in de nieuwe spelling (Marchant en van Ginneken); boven elk in te leveren werkstuk moet echter vermeld worden welke spelling gevolgd wordt. K 53 z.o.z. �Bij het examen gelden de voigende bepalingen van orde: 1. De candidaat mag geen andere plaats innemen dan waar een kaartje, houdende zijn µaam en nummer, is gelegd. 2. Van deze plaats mag niet, dan bij hooge uitzondering, met toestemming van de commissie van toezicht, worden opgestaan. Wie zonder toestemming opstaat moet het lokaal verlaten en mag aan het examen niet verder deelnemen. 3. Geen cahiers, beschreven papier als anderszins, boeken etc. mogen in het examenlokaal worden meegebracht. Blijkt, dat de candidaat iets bij zich heeft, hetwelk op het examen betrekking heeft, dan wordt hij onherroepelijk afgewezen. 4. Gedurende het examen mag niets worden overhandigd of worden gesproken dan aan en tegen de commissie, op straffe van on herroepelijk te worden afgewezen. Wie iets aan de commissie te zeggen heeft, steekt de liniaal op. 5. Geen ander papier mag worden gebruikt dan vanwege de commissie is verstrekt. 6. Inlichtingen omtrent de examenopgaven worden gedµrende h~t examen niet gegeven. 7. Op elk in te leveren werkstuk moeten door den candidaat zijn naam en nummer (nummer van deze oproeping) worden vermeld in den linker bovenhoek. Dagelijks wordt, naar gelang van correctie, de uitslag van het schriftelijk examen medegedeeld. De Secretaris der Examencommissie, BAUMANN. 's-Gravenhage, September 1941. �NEDERLANDSCHE VEREENIGING VOOR GEMEENTEBELANGEN EXAMEN MAATSCHAPPELIJK vVERKER 1941 Woensdag 1 October 1941 van 9½- 11 ½ uur voormiddag. AI en A II (2 uren) Beantwoord alle volgende vragen en maak een opstel naar keuze over een van de hieronder omschreven onderwerpen: AI. VRAGEN 1. Welke instanties kunnen in een gemeente de burgerlijke armen- zorg uitoefenen? 2. Hoe worden in de z.g. rijkssteunregeling de werklooze arbeiders onderscheiden? 3. Wat is in groote trekken het verschil tusschen ontzetting en ontheffing uit de ouderlijke macht? 4. Welke bepaling kent ge over de aansprakelijkheid van de organen der openbare arbeidsbemiddeling voor de gevolgen van haar bemiddeling? 5. Wat verstaat ge onder "onvrijwillige werkloosheid", voor de uitvoering van de werkloosheidsverzekering? A Il. OPSTEL NAAR KEUZE 1. Geef een beredeneerd overzicht van de beginselen der Armenwet 1912. 2. Geef een overzicht, waarin wordt aangegeven het verschil tusschen de steunverleening aan werkloozen en de ondersteuning aan armlastigen. z.o.z. K 53 �3. Geef een beschouwing over de verschillende wijzen, waarop verhaal van verleenden onderstand kan plaats hebben. 4. Geef een overzicht van de voorgeschreven wekelijksche werk- zaamheden, betreffende de in steun opgenomen werkloozen, die lid zijn van een organisatie met werkloozenkas. 5 . Geef een uiteenzetting van de voornaamste verschillen tusschen de organisatie der openbare arbeidsbemiddeling volgens de arbeidsbemiddelingswet 1930 en volgens het reorganisatiebesluit van 24 September 1940. 6. Geef een uiteenzetting van de redenen, die ertoe hebben geleid om de openbare arbeidsbemiddeling van gemeentelijke tot Rijkszaak te maken. 7. Beschrijf de werkzaamheid van de vakorganisaties (met werkloozenkas) op het terrein der werkloosheidsverzekering in den loop der jaren. 8. Geef een uiteenzetting over het begrip passende arbeid in verband met het recht op uitkeering uit een werkloozenkas. �NEDERL.A.NDSCHE VEREENIGING VOOR GEMEENTEBEL.A.NGEN EXAMEN MAATSCHAPPELIJK WERKER 1941 Woensdag 1 Octobèr 1941 van 11 ½-1 uur. B. EEN RAPPORT NAAR KEUZE (1 ½ uur) 1. H. van Veendam richt zich om steun tot den Gem. Dienst voor Maatschappelijk Hulpbetoon. Zijn vrouw is plotseling wegens t.b.c. in een ziekenhuis opgenomen. De verpleging zal ten minste 4 maanden duren. Er zijn 4 kinderen: een dochter van 15 jaar (die de huishoudschool bezoekt), twee jongens van resp. 12 en 9 jaar (die op de lagere school zijn) en een meisje van 3 jaar (dat thuis is). De man verdient als nachtwaker een loon van f 18,- per week. Zij bewonen een armoedig huis, waar licht en lucht onvoldoende kunnen binnenkomen en waarvan de huishuur f 4,50 per week bedraagt. Hij verzoekt betaling van de kosten van ziekenhuisverpleging en een geldelijke bijdrage om een huishoudster te kunnen nemen. Stel een uitvoerig rapport samen van een onderzoek, zooals dit naar aanleiding van een zoodanig verzoek behoort te worden ingesteld. Het rapport dient te eindigen met een advies hoe de hulp • verleening geregeld zou kunnen worden. 2. Een gesteunde, sinds jaren werkloos, timmerman uit een groote stad, wiens gezin bestaat uit man, vrouw en vier kinderen van 14, 12, 9 en 3 jaar, wordt door het G. A.B. landarbeiderswerk aan-geboden in een andere provincie, tegen een loon van f 12,- , plus K 53 z.o.z. �kost en inwoning. De man weigert dit werk te aanvaarden, waarvan het G. A.B. mededeeling doet aan het orgaan van steunverleening. Het orgaan stelt een onderzoek in. Stel het rapport, met advies omtrent eventueele steunverleening. 3. Een bemiddelaar van een G. A. B. leest in de plaatselijke pers een advertentie van iemand, die arbeidsbemiddeling verricht. Bij onderzoek blijkt de bemiddeling met winstoogmerk te geschieden zonder vergunning, terwijl de man bovendien ongunstig staat aangeschreven. Maak het rapport aan den Directeur van het G . A. B. over deze zaak, met advies . 4. De Burgemeester eener gemeente geeft een zijner ambtenaren opdracht om na te gaan op welke wijze de besturen der werkloozenkassen controle (doen) uitoefenen op de werklooze leden, hem van de bevindingen verslag uit te brengen en, zoo noodig, voorstellen te doen tot verbetering van den bestaanden toestand. De ambtenaar constateert bij zijn onderzoek tekortkomingen bij verschillende kassen. Schrijf het rápport van dezen ambtenaar aan den Burgemeester. �NEDERLANDSCHE VEREENIGING VOOR GEMEENTEBELANGEN EXAMEN MAATSCHAPPELIJK WERKER 1941 Woensdag 1 October 1941 van 2 ½ - 4 ½ uur. C. BRIEF (BRIEVEN) OF BEREKENINGEN NAAR KEUZE (2 uren) I. Aan Maatschappelijk Hulpbetoon van Landzicht wordt steun gevraagd door A. Hendriks, handelaar in tweedehandsch goederen. Bij het onderzoek van de steunaanvrage blijkt, dat Hendriks nog slechts vier weken in de gemeente woonachtig is en dat het bestuur van de burgerlijke instelling van zijn vorige woonplaats (Waterveld) hem geld heeft verstrekt voor zijn verhuizing naar Landzicht. Ontwerp: a. den brief van Maatschappelijk Hulpbetoon van Landzicht aan Gedeputeerde Staten (Commissaris) der provincie, houdende verzoek om toepassing van art. 40 der _Armenwf:t; b. -het verweer van Maatschappelijk Hulpbetoon van Waterveld aan Gedeputeerde Staten (Commissaris) der provmc1e, op het onder a bedoeld - van Gedeputeerde Staten (Commissaris) der provincie om advies ontvangen - schrijven. II . a. Een werklooze schilder heeft bij het orgaan van steunverleening een aanvrage ingediend om ondersteuning. De man, wiens. gezin bestaat u it 4 personen, verdiende f 31,- per week. Betrokkene is 2 maanden lid van een werkloozenkas en heeft in de maand Augustus j.l. niet of slechts gedeeltelijk kunnen werken, wegens den aanhoudenden regen. Thans is hij geheel werkloos, terwijl hij bij zijn werkgever tot 18 Augustus in totaal 11 2 dagen heeft gewerkt. De huisbezoeker adviseert het gezin steun te verleenen. K 53 z.o.z. �2 Beantwoord onderstaande vragen met korte omschrijving: 1. Kan de man aanspraak maken op uitkeering uit zijn werkloozenkas? 2. Is een ontslagvergunning van de Arbeidsinspectie noodzakelijk? 3. Waar het gezin dringend onderstand behoeft, dient deze dan gegeven te worden volgens de Armenwet of volgens de Steunregeling? 4. Zom1 ls uit de vraag blijkt was het loon f 31,- per week; hier komt nog bij f 2,- per week volgens de wettelijke regeling omtrent kinderbijslag, maakt f 33,- per week, terwijl f 1,20 per week werd ingehouden. voor loonbelasting door den werkgever. Welke loonnorm dient aangehouden te worden? 5. Zoodra het opnieuw werkbaar weer wordt, kan de man bij zijn patroon andermaal aan het werk gaan. Moet hij in de periode tot het hervatten van zijn werkzaamheden ingeschreven staan als werkzoekende bij het Gew. Arbeidsbureau? b. Piet van Deurzen wordt gesteund volgens de steunregeling (tarief le klasse). Norm voor gehuwden f 10,50 en f 1,35 toeslag voor elk kind. Het gezin bestaat uit man, vrouw en een inwonende moeder van 67 jaar. Deze moeder heeftf 3,- per week ouderdomsrente en f 5,- per week pensioen, waarvan zij wekelijks aan haar zoon f 7,- kostgeld betaalt. Het huis is belast eigendom van den zoon. De kosten van onderhoud, belasting, enz. bedragen f 3,per week, terwijl de huurwaarde is getaxeerd op f 4,75 per week. De toelage voor huur in deze gemeente bedraagt f 0,75 per week; de overgangstoelage tweederde van het bedrag, hetgeen de huur meer bedraagt dan f 3,50 per week. Derhalve is f 3,50 de standaardhuur. Maximum overgangstoelage f 3,- per week. De kostwinner is georganiseerd en was over het tijdvak 1 Maart-30 September 1936 niet in ondersteuning. In dit tijdvak trok hij f 14,10 uit de werkloozenkas . 1. Maak de steunberekening (art. 10a van de Rijkssteunregeling kan buiten beschouwing worden gelaten). 2. Kan de inwonende moeder volgens de steunregeling of ingevolge de Armenwet gesteund worden? c. Een geplaatste in de werkverschaffing wordt voor 3 dagen geschorst, zoodat hij 3 dagen loon derft. �3 1. Kan hem over deze 3 dagen steun verstrekt worden? 2. Zoo neen, waarom niet? 3. Zoo ja, geschiedt dit dan volgens de steunregeling of volgens de Armenwet? 4. Hoe dient het loon verrekend te worden? III. Het bestuur eener Ambachtsschool heeft vergunning om voor oud -leerlingen te mogen bemiddelen. Het G. A.B. is van meening, dat zulk een vergunning niet langer gehandhaafd kan worden en richt zich deswege tot het Departement van Sociale Zaken. Ontwerp den brief. IV. Een Burgemeester heeft geconstateerd, dat de afdeelingspenningmeester van een gesubsidieerde vereeniging met werkloozenkas de administratie der werkloosheidsverzekering onvoldoende verzorgt en de bepalingen, betreffende de bijdragen voor en de uitkeeringen uit de werkloozenkas, in vele gevallen niet of onjuist toepast. De Burgemeester komt tot de gevolgtrekking, dat de afdeelingspenningmeester ongeschikt is voor zijn taak en besluit een brief te schrijven aan het hoofdbestuur der vereeniging, waarin hij, na vermelding van de vastgestelde feiten, verzoekt bepaalde maatregelen te nemen. Ontwerp dezen brief. �NEDERLANDSCHE VEREENIGING+ VOOR GEMEENTEBELANGEN EXAMEN MAATSCHAPPELIJK WERKER 1941 Donderdag 2 October 1941 van 10 uur-12 ½ uur. D. BOEl{HOUDEN (2 1 / 2 uur) Werk onderstaande opgaven uit: 1. De firma A. v. d. Laar, boekdrukker en winkelier in kantoorbehoeften te Zeist, behoeft, per 15 October 1941, de l?eschikking over f 750,- , voor een :ilgeheele revisie van zijn drukmachines. Nadat alle pogingen tot het verkrijgen van een crediet, ten bedrage van f 500,- , bij particuliere geldgevers - wegens• gebrek aan een voor hen acceptabel onderpand - zijn mislukt, wendt hij zich op 20 September 1941 tot Maatschappelijk Hulpbetoon met het verzoek hem een handelsvoorschot van f 500,- te willen verstrekken. In dit verzoek doet hij tot uiting komen, dat hij zich, ingeval van een afwijzende beschikking, binnen afzienbaren tijd tot de gemeente zal moeten wenden om een wekelijksche ondersteuning voor dekking van de kosten van het noodzakelijke levensonderhoud voor hem en zijn gezin, bestaande uit 10 personen. Hij zegt f 25,- per maand te kunnen aflossen. De huisbezoeker van M. H. krijgt het verzoek voor onderzoek en advies, met verzoek om over te leggen: a. de balans van de firma v. d. Laar per 31 December 1940; b. een tusschentijdsche balans van de firma v. d. Laar per 1 October 1941; c. een berekening van de grootte der bedrijfsresultaten van drukkerij en winkel tezamen, waaruit blijkt of Van der Laar, voornoemd, K 53 �de toegezegde aflossing van f 25,- per maand al of niet uit de winst zal kunnen voldoen. Hierbij mag worden aangenomen, dat de privé-uitgaven niet zullen toenemen en de toekomstige bedrijfsresultaten gelijk zijn aan die, welke over de periode van 1 Januari 1941- 1 October 1941 werden behaald. Adressant verstrekt de navolgende gegevens: per 31 Dec. 1940 per 1 Oct. 1941 voorraad kantoorbehoeften e. d . in den winkel . . . . f 700,- ~ f 750,- at 250,- ,.. 212,50 -,. winkelinrichting . . . . vorderingen op klanten . 500,- 1. 350,- waarvan vermoedelijk oninbaar 50,- ..., 150,- ') kasgeld . . . . . . . . . . 175,75,,, 1160,- 1voorraad papier en-inkt t. b . v. drukkerij ,, 1000,machines drukkerij . . . . . . . . . ,, 1500,- ..: " 1212,50 ..c schulden . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3000,- 3.900,- Uittreksel uit het kasboek over de periode f 1 Januari 1941-1 October 1941 Ontvangsten Verkoop kantoorbehoeften in den winkel . . . J 1500,- 1 Opbrengst drukwerk 2200,- f 3200,- ~ Debiteuren . . . . . Uitgaven Crediteuren . f 2500,- ,, Papier, inkt e. d. t. b . v. drukkerij . . . . 1985,- JoOnkosten drukkerij " 500,- " Onkosten winkel 200,- ~ Loonen drukkerij ,, 780,- -< Sociale lasten . 60,- 11 Privé . . . . . 975,- J 6900,- De inkoop van kantoorbehoeften van 1 Januari 19411941 op crediet ten behoeve van den winkel bedroeg Idem van papier en inkt voor de drukkerij over genoemd tijdvak . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . De verkoop op crediet van drukwerken over genoemd tijdvak bedroeg . . . . . . . . . . . . . . f 7000,- 1 October 750,- t ,, 1250,- ~ f ,, 3350,- vGevraagd wordt, aan de hand van vorenstaande mededeelingen, de onder a tot en met c gevraagde gegevens op te stellen. De onder c �gevraagde berekening heeft daarbij betrekking op de periode van 1 Januari 1941- 1 October 1941. 2. S., ambtenaar bij de afdeeling Sociale _Zaken te R., is belast met de boekhouding van "Winterhulp". Daartoe houdt hij dagelijks een tabellarisch kasbankboek bij, voorzien van de volgende kolommen: Ontvangsten: Datum - omschrijving - no. kasbescheid - Kas Bank - Verrekeningen met Provinciaal kantoor - straatcollecte huiscollecte - giften - diversen. Uitgaven: Datum - omschrijving - no. kasbescheid - Kas - Bank - algemeene onkosten - kosten van propaganda - afdrachten provinciaal kantoor - diversen. a. Boek de navolgende posten in dit boek en sluit het daarna af: 1941 1 Jan . Saldo tegoed bij de bank (opbrengst van gehouden straatcollecte, dd. 30 December 1940) f 500,Saldo kasgeld (opbrengst van gehouden huiscollecte, dd. 30 375,December 1940) . . . . . . . . . . " 2 Jan. Bericht ontvangen van de bank, dat zij ingevolge opdracht f 500,- heeft overgemaakt aan het provinciaal kantoor. 50,Ontvangen een gift van den heer J. Amerson ,, 3 Jan. Ontvangen van de op 2 dezer gehouden collecte: straatcollecte . f 250,huiscollecte . . . . . . . . . . ,, 750,,, 1000,4 Jan. Afgedragen aan het Provinciaal kantoor. . . ,, 1425,5 Jan. Ontvangen een gift van de Middenstandsvereeniging op bankrekening . . . . . . . 50,Bericht ontvangen van de bank dat zij een bedrag van / 50,- heeft overgemaakt aan het Provinciaal kantoor. 10 Jan. Nota ontvangen voor aanschaffing van 10 collectebussen t . b. v. f 17,50. Hiervoor is aan het Provinciaal kantoor goedkeuring gevraagd �12 Jan. 14 Jan. 15 Jan. 25 Jan. 26 Jan. 27 Jan. 30 Jan. op 5 dezer. Het vereischte bedrag dd. heden van het Provinciaal kantoor op bankrekening ontvangen . Tevens is van de bank bericht binnengekomen, dat zij het ontvangen bedrag van f 17,50 aan de leverancier der collectebussen heeft uitbetaald. Van de dd . heden gehouden fancy-fair ontvangen f 275,-, te specificeeren als volgt: opbrengst fancy-fair . . . . . . f 325, af: gemaakte propagandakosten " 50,voor de gemaakte kosten is bereids goedkeu ring aangevraagd. Ontvangen van het Provinciaal kantoor een chèque ten bedrage van f 50,- voor de gemaakte propagandakosten van de gehouden fancy-fair op 12 dezer. Deze chèque verzilverd. Afgedragen aan het Provinciaal kantoor. f Ontvangen een gift van N . N. . . . . Ontvangen een gift van het Warenhuis op bankrekening . . . . . . . . . . . . Ontvangen van de dd. 24 dezer gehouden lijstencollecte . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Overgemaakt aan het Provinciaal kantoor . . Overgemaakt aan het Provinciaal kantoor door de bank . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . "Ontvangen van een naaikransje als gift . . . ,, 325,100,100,300,400,100,5,- In de kolom "verrekeningen met Provinciaal kantoor" onder ontvangsten werden o.m. geboekt de van het Provinciaal kantoor terugontvangen bedragen voor gemaakte kosten. Toelichting: b. Door het Provinciaal kantoor wordt een nadere toelichting gevraagd van de op 4 en 26 dezer ontvangen bedragen van resp. f 1425,- en f 400,-. Wanneer ge weet, dat alle ontvangen bedragen van collecten, giften e. d. zoo spoedig mogelijk aan het Provinciaal kantoor moeten worden overgemaakt, wordt gevraagd de hiervoor aangegeven afdrachten nader te specificeeren. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman) Termaat, Peter N. Description An account of the resource Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar. Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1869 - 2012 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144</a> Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945 World War, 1939-1945 World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands Dutch Dutch Americans Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text Image Type The nature or genre of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng nl Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144_Termaat_DOC_1941-09-Exams-accounting-Termaat Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nederlandsche Vereeniging voor Gemeentebelangen Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1941-09 Title A name given to the resource Pieter Termaat social work exams Description An account of the resource Social Worker Examinations of Pieter N. Termaat. In Dutch. Subject The topic of the resource Dutch Civil service--Examinations Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource nl Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/db975ae3178c4d262e3c717a3afd947b.mp4 3a2dfd3ee2f6fdc3632b1274afc80e9d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9397a234160bffdd30c6b74015b4f42a.pdf 9196801e469afa84cc4f756eb6795167 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Duane Neff (00:51:00) Introduction: Mr. Neff was born in Odessa, Michigan. His father worked as a milkman, then Consumers Energy, and after he was laid off there he laid down blacktop. Duane graduated from high school in Carson City, MI, in 1942. He was drafted the next February. Military training Duane's military training began in Fort Custer, and he was then transferred to Atlantic City. He recounts his first lengthy train ride on an electric train. After Atlantic City he was transferred to Greensboro. After being drafted, he was initially put in the Navy. Duane was irritated at this because his father had been in the Air Corps during WWI and he wanted to follow in his father's footsteps. Eventually, he managed to get the matter sorted out. (3:45) The next transfer was to Drew Field, where he learned radio training and ground observer training. He explains that ground observer training is the practice by which military personnel learn to quickly identify what type of aircraft is flying overheard. Generally, "quickly" is ten seconds or less. (4:42) Also while in Drew Field he was trained in Morse Code. Despite his training, he says he never learned Morse Code effectively. (5:00) Next he was transferred to Tampa for a period of 3-6 months. (5:30) While in Tampa, he spent most of his time at the local beaches looking for girls. (5:42) Dancing was another common entertainment during his stay at Tampa. While dancing one night, he hurt his leg. (6:20) While in Tampa, he and others were formed into a formal military unit near a race track. (6:49) He notes that the men in his unit came from all over America, and that he is still friends with some of them. (7:14) Next he was transferred to Mississippi, for amphibious training. (7:34) Mr. Neff notes the various types of planes present at the base (7:56) Later on, he is transferred to Fresno, CA for desert training. He notes that this is the same location where the Japanese interment camps were located. (8:24) �He expresses his disagreement with the Japanese interments. (9:09) His next transfer was to Pittsburgh, CA. (9:20) During February of 1944 he is shipped out to active duty. (9:41) Deployment He notes he was excited and interested to begin active duty. He also notes they were served sauerkraut and wheaties, and that everyone but himself got horribly seasick. (9:52) Duane's ship left San Francisco without an escort, and went South and East, along New Zealand, and Australia. He was unloaded at Finschaefen, New Guinea. Duty in the Phillipines Preparation begins for the invasion of the Phillipines. (11:26) During his time in the Phillipines, he comes across Filipinos. He explains that relations between U.S. military officers and the natives were generally cordial, and that they often traded with them. Gum and cigarettes were generally traded for jewelry. (11:26) He notes that the natives lived in the jungles. (12:38) Duane notes that disease, especially malaria, was problematic for his unit. He notes briefly that he has had malaria. (12:51) Recounts experiences of "jungle rot" prevalent in his unit. He blames the "jungle rot" on their insisting on wearing wet shoes. (13:00) Duane praises the two doctors in his unit for combating disease. (13:15) Recounts one of the doctors being shot. (13:35) Duane notes that the Japanese bombing was not a major problem for him in the Phillipines. (14:82) Duane briefly discusses the buildup of a major naval battle (15:38) Notes that the part of the problem for the US forces was that his ship had run aground. (16:00) The LST was full of gasoline, although he didn't know it at the time (17:00) Smoke screens, aerial bombing are problematic. Nothing came close to him personally. (17:12) He notes that the cook operated the machine gun. He explains that the cook was proficient with the weapon, although he did damage some of their own structure. (17:49) Explains there were no casualties during the unloading. (18:27) �He discusses the seven casualties of his unit, and explains there bodies were never found. (18:46) He notes that the Catholic chaplain at the permanent base was shot. (19:00) Japanese paratroopers begin assault on the base. (19:50) Japanese come with half a dozen transports (20:16) Paratroopers are stopped with a Thompson machine gun. (21:10) Paratrooper attack is not accompanied by other types of attack (21:36) Starving Japanese soldiers come to American base for food. The Americans feed them, and then lock them up. (21:45) Other types of interaction between American and Japanese troops. (22:00) Japanese air raids (23:42) Attacks are usually at night (24:10) Discusses fighter pilots and commander. (24:38) Filipinos were generally friendly to Americans, in part because the Japanese treated them cruelly. Service economy emerges between Filipinos and Americans. (25:00) Movies were shown outside at the base with a film projector. Shows came to the base as well, such as Jerry Colona, Bob Hope, and the Oklahoma stage show. Dances were not prevalent as earlier however. (25:54) Despite the moist, hot climate, the movie equipment did not seem to have problems. (27:44) Renault Stadium in Manila is a bombed out area (28:32) Goes to Clark field, where he sees an impressive amount of airplanes. (29:56) Flies frequently, noting islands (30:36) Supply planes need help (31:12) Supply plane has problems getting in the air. (32:20) Notices a problem with the tire, which turns out to only be a sticker for the recently replaced tire. (33:00) Colonel saves Duane from going to prison. Truckloads of mail from New Guinea had been backed up, resulting in the mail bags becoming water damaged. Duane disposes of the ruined �mail bags by burning them, thinking that he was saving someone else the trouble of their disposal. The post-master charges him with destroying government property, but the Col. agrees with Duane and he is not sent to prison. (34:35-36:00) Duane has more problems with the mail when another officer fraudulently signs Duane's name for a delivered watch. The mail inspector has Duane sign his name dozens of times, and concludes that the earlier signature was a forgery. (36:29-37:46) Plays cribbage with some of his friends, one of whom he taught to play the game. He notes that he was playing cribbage when the war ended. (38:25) After the War Discusses point system for discharges. (38:36) Duane was due out on December of 1945, at which point he came down with malaria. (38:46) He leaves the Phillipines on the Sacagewea. (39:00) Notes that 37 of the people on the Sacagewea were white, and the rest were black. (39:56) 1200 miles off the coast of Hawaii, the ship is set aflame by a grease fire. The grease fire was caused by frying donuts in turbulent seas. Despite the fire, Duane continues playing the movie. No one comes to notify the people watching movies, but they figure it out when smoke comes into the room. Everyone lays down on the floor to avoid the smoke. A large black man comes in and helps people out of the room. The fire is put out afterwards. (40:19-42:18) The Sacagawea was supposed to dock in Seattle, but the officials order them to stop at Hawaii due to damage from the fire. He also notes they are low on food. The repairs are made midtransit, and they are then told to land in San Francisco instead. Once in San Francisco he is put on a cruise ship and sent to Angel Island, where they have a meal of T-bone steaks and milk. (42:36-44:09) Discharged at Fort Sheldon. (45:42) Returns to Michigan. He files for unemployment, but never collects as he is soon hired by Consumers Energy. He works for Consumers Energy for forty years and then retires. (45:4346:45) Expresses gratitude for his time in the military. Explains he didn't find it pleasant at the time, but is glad he went. If he had to do it again, he'd be a cook (47:00-47:44) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NeffD Title A name given to the resource Neff, Duane (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Neff, Duane L. Description An account of the resource Duane Neff served in the US Army Air Corps between 1943 and 1946. He served with an air warning unit that worked mostly with fighter squadrons in the Philippines. He discusses encounters with the Japanese and with Filipinos, and incidents that took place on base before and after the war's end. When heading home, the ship he was on caught fire and had to make an emergency stop in Hawaii. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army. Air Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-12-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1645c14563bf28ad2ff66ba34ecc2c9c.mp4 6bdd4d9f16ad89ec4873a215b78e8237 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8f8830e891b4b868c95d859dcdb6c8a5.pdf ffd231e7d19f933bddfe1e84e5524289 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Vietnam War Interviewee’s Name: Bruce Nelson Length of Interview: 53:54 Interviewed by: James Smither Transcribed by: Sam Noonan Interviewer: “We’re talking today with Bruce Nelson of Hutchinson, Minnesota. The interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Okay, Bruce you can start with some background on yourself, and to begin with where and when were you born?” Born in ’49 in Wabasha, Minnesota. Raised in Kellogg, just seven miles south. Interviewer: “Alright, and what was your family doing for a living when you were a kid?” Dairy farm. Yep. Interviewer: “And then did you grow up on that farm?” Grew up on that farm, my father died when I was fifteen. Interviewer: “So did you stay on the farm at that point?” No, I didn’t. I was sent to a private school, in Hutchinson, Minnesota, and that’s where I met my wife – future wife. Interviewer: “Okay, let’s see – when did you graduate from high school?” 1967. Interviewer: “Okay, and then what did you do after you’re graduated?” Oh, I don’t know – set the world on fire like any other graduate. Got married the following year and got drafted the year after that. Interviewer: “Okay, did you have a job at that point?” Yes I did. Interviewer: “What were you doing?” I worked in a foundry. In the summertime, we made castings. And my job was a shaker, they called it. And I’d take the castings out of the molds that they were in and take the sand, and that would be reused. �Interviewer: “Okay. So that period there… ’67, ’68, ’69, were you paying much attention to the news from Vietnam, and that kind of thing?” (1:34) Um, I was going to a trade school at the time to become an auto mechanic, so during the second year I became – you know, broke like everybody else, and had to go work, and that’s when Uncle Sam sent me a letter. I was no longer - had, have any student deferment. Interviewer: “Okay, alright so you were – because you were in school at that point that’s sorta why you didn’t get drafted right away?” Correct. Interviewer: “Okay, alright. So now you get your draft notice, and when do you have to report?” Boy, I don’t remember the specific dates, but it’d be in June sometime. Interviewer: “Of ’69?” Yes. ’69. And we were married at the time, and.. [my] wife drove me to Wabasha, you know, date of birth, and I rode on a bus to Minneapolis. And then I got sent on a train to Seattle. Interviewer: “Okay, now did they process you in Minneapolis?” Yes. Interviewer: “Okay did you have a physical there?” Yes. Interviewer: “Okay. Now how serious a physical was it?” Ha! I don’t know, basically you strip down with a bunch of other guys in the same room, and you know, you do the cough test and basically if you’re warm, you’re in. Interviewer: “Right. Did you notice anybody trying to get out of it one way or another?” No. Interviewer: “Okay. Some places that happened, some that didn’t.” You know, [we were] just mostly farm kids. Interviewer: “Mhm. Alright. And so where did they send you for basic training?” Well they tried to send me to Seattle, but I had written down on, I don’t know, one of the forms they have that I was a conscientious objector. Which meant I automatically became a medic. Which is what I wanted to do. And so after a few weeks of harassment in Seattle, they flew me to Dallas and I took a bus to Fort Sam, which is [in] San Antonio. �Interviewer: “Yeah, okay. Now had you ahead of time done anything – I think we were talking before, off-camera a little bit about your church or whatever you had, some idea that you were—” (3:51) Yeah, um… Desmond Doss, who was a medal of honor winner in World War 2, was kind of my… I don’t know, hero – as far as a medic goes, and I went to training at the church offered to, how to become a, you know, a good medic and what to expect. Interviewer: “Okay, now when did you do that?” I went two years, actually – one I was a junior in high school during that summer, which would’ve been ’66, and again in ’67 right out of high school. Interviewer: “Okay, and so was that kind of in anticipation that you might get drafted or…?” Yeah. I mean, everybody I knew was getting drafted so… Interviewer: “Okay, so you had that in your background, you kind of knew what to ask for and what to put on the form, and—” Sure. Interviewer: “Alright. So how did spend – so you were actually at Fort Lewis then, for a couple of weeks first. How did you spend your time up there?” Trying to explain to the people in charge that ‘I was right and you were wrong.’ Which is very difficult. Interviewer: “So how did you manage to win that argument?” There was no choice, in my mind. It was either I was [a medic] or I wasn’t. Very direct, you know and then they had to go through their records and make sure that I was, you know telling them the correct story. And I eventually won. Interviewer: “Okay. Alright, so now onto Fort Sam Houston, San Antonio – what was the basic training like for medics?” More harassment – oh, for medics? Interviewer: “Well, I guess what did you get first?” Takin’ me a while to boot this up in my head. The first few months is just you know, drills and more harassment and that sort of thing. So the real training for medics didn’t start ‘til the latter, I think it was a three-month course. And then we were taught the basic emergency medical procedures, you know how to stop the bleeding, how to put splits on fractures and that sort of thing. And we gave each other shots, so we used each other as guinea pigs. �Interviewer: “Just to back up a little bit to the first part, the basic training part – were all of you there – you’re all gonna be medics, was that…” Correct. Interviewer: “Now, did you do weapons training?” No. Interviewer: “Okay, now did they just kind of exempt the conscientious objectors from that, or did you just not do it at all?” I don’t think we really did it at all. We weren’t all conscientious objectors, so I can’t speak for everybody but I did not receive any weapons training – born on a farm in the woods, out in the river and you know, coon hunting as a kid and all that, so I was familiar with weapons, just not weapons of war. Interviewer: “Right. So that wasn’t part of your training program, now did they in those first weeks there, you said there was a lot of harassment, is this the kind of spit-andpolish discipline stuff or?” Yeah. You know, you gotta have your shoes polished, and spit-shines and all that good stuff and your clothes wrinkle-free and… so yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, and how easy or hard was it for you to adjust to just being in the Army?” (7:45) I was just doing my time. You know, it was – I don’t know, there wasn’t much of an adjustment … it was more of a duty. Interviewer: “So you just did what they told you to do?” Yeah. Stay out of trouble and you’ll be fine. Interviewer: “Now were there people that you were training alongside who were having more trouble or were trying to push back?” Well there’s always show-offs. Yeah, just let ‘em go and they can make fools of themselves by themselves. I usually stayed clear of those kind of people. Interviewer: “Okay. And then from there you’re getting – the training that you’re getting as a medic, are they preparing you really to be a combat medic or is this more hospital duty stuff?” Combat medic. Interviewer: “Okay. What would they – do they take you out into the field at all?” �Yeah, but that was mostly for endurance. There were no actual… everything was like make believe, it was all pictures. There was no real hospital work or anything like that. Interviewer: “And they didn’t have you out on a mock battlefield or anything like that?” Towards the end they did, and then there was live fire that you had to, you know low crawl through and – but everybody did that. Interviewer: “Now did they tell you anything about priorities, for sort of ‘who do you treat first’ or that kind of thing, the triage or did that not come there?” No. That was not addressed. Interviewer: “Okay, cause I guess the Navy corpsman serving with the Marines that was part of what they got, but they had a different program than what you had.” Yes, they were more hospital trained – my brother was a corpsman in the Navy for four years, and he’s fourteen years older than I am, so I got to be raised on his stories. So I probably had a better idea of what to expect than most. Interviewer: “Okay, alright. So how long did your training last?” Well all of it together was six months. Interviewer: “And then you get to the end of that six months then what happens?” (10:14) Get your orders! My entire class got sent to Vietnam. Don’t remember the correct number, probably a hundred-and-something, my class. Interviewer: “Okay. Now do they give you leave to go home first?” Yeah. Was it one month, I believe. Yeah. Interviewer: “Now had your wife come down to Texas while you were in training, or did she stay up in Minnesota?” Basic was, she stayed in Minnesota. AIT she came down, so we had a little apartment off-base. Interviewer: “Now were you able to live there, or just go there on weekends?” Weekends - you know, when I could sneak off. (laughter) Interviewer: “Yeah, I guess you have a little more freedom in AIT than you do when you’re in basic.” Little bit, yes. Interviewer: “Okay, and now alright – then did you go back to Minnesota before you went overseas or did you—” �Yes. Went back there and you know, just spent time with family and that kind of thing. Interviewer: “Alright, now at this point I mean how much did you know about Vietnam?” Just what was on the news. You know, didn’t really watch the news – I knew of it and you know, didn’t know what to expect at that time. Interviewer: “So when do you actually go to Vietnam?” It was before Christmas, so middle of December somewhere. Interviewer: “Okay, alright. And how do they get you to Vietnam?” I flew from Minneapolis to I believe it was Oakland, San Francisco area. There was a base there that we flew to, the – took to Hawaii and then Wake Island and then Vietnam. Interviewer: “Okay, now did you get to get off the plane on those – when it stopped over?” No. On Wake Island we did, cause there was a fuel stop and it took time to refuel the jet. It was a regular commercial jet, United Airlines. Interviewer: “And what did Wake Island look like?” Well, when we landed we were wondering if there was any land there to land on, because we just could see the waves, we got closer and closer and just before touchdown there was some land, and yeah very small. So we walked around there, and I knew my history and what had happened there. Interviewer: “Well, you can’t really get lost there too easily.” You can’t get lost, nope. Interviewer: “Alright. So then back in the plane, where do you land in Vietnam?” (12:48) I can’t remember the exact name, it was next to Saigon. Interviewer: “Okay, well Tan Son Nhut is the big airport, and there’s bases that long been in Bien Hoa, and so you probably landed at one of those.” Yeah. Really didn’t know where I landed at the time. While we were there we were kind of corralled, you know, and into a – kind of a warehouse setting where we would receive our orders. And the friend I had made during basic training, he and I stuck together like twins. So we always stayed in the back, we didn’t hear everything that was going on and we wound up staying there for several weeks, avoiding things like you know, K.P. duty and all that stuff. (laughter) Interviewer: “Well did you have to sort of report for roll call in the morning and—” �Yes! And then we would, you know – always in the back, you know, always kind of go with the crowd and then we kinda, you know slip into a bunker ‘til everything was calmed down and… Interviewer: “So how were you gonna be notified of your assignment?” That was the problem. Finally we went and asked why we hadn’t received orders and well, we hadn’t heard the part where we’re supposed to turn in our records. Interviewer: “Oh!” So he and I, got sent to the 101st together. Interviewer: “Okay. So basically you were just allowed to kind of drift around on the base for several weeks, and this just—” We were almost like tourists. And without any money, you know, cause there was no pay if you don’t have a location. Interviewer: “But I guess you could still eat? Cause you’re not paying for your food, yeah.” Yeah, sure. There was a mess hall. Interviewer: “Alright, and nobody in particular noticed you?” No! Nobody cared. Interviewer: “Okay, alright. So now you finally do get assigned, you’re sent to the 101st, now once you are assigned do they just send you right up to where they’re operating?” You bet, it was a quick trip. Interviewer: “Okay. And how did you get up there?” We flew in a C-130. Yeah, very noisy plane. Interviewer: “Yeah well it’s a cargo plane.” It was a cargo plane, there was canvas seats that had been folded down from the outer wall and we’d sit on those. Interviewer: “While you were at the base outside of Saigon, did it ever get mortared or rocketed or was it quiet?” There were occasional – they’d try and hit the airfield, to blow holes in the tarmac – which was corrugated steel. Interviewer: “But was that some distance away from where you were?” I thought so. �Interviewer: “So it didn’t bother you too much that that was happening?” No, it’s kind of along the perimeter and yeah, it’s… yeah. And we were in a bunker when that started happening. (15:59) Interviewer: “Alright, now you go up – when you are assigned to the 101st airborne, do you know what unit in the division you’re gonna go to, or is that still up in the air?” No. Interviewer: “Okay. Now what part – I guess for people that don’t know anything about Vietnam, what part of the country were you operating in?” We were probably thirty miles north of Hue, the old capital. Interviewer: “Okay, so kind of the northern end of South Vietnam? But still south of the DMZ by some ways.” Yep. Interviewer: “Do you know what base you landed at initially? Camp Eagle, or did you go to Evans, or?” I think it was Camp Eagle. Interviewer: “Yeah probably, cause there’s a big airfield—” Cause it was a bigger base, yeah. Interviewer: “Okay. So you land there, and you get there and you don’t know what your assignment is yet. What do they do with you once you arrive?” There were a few days of in-country orientation. Interviewer: “So what did that consist of?” Boy, you’re really digging in the cobwebs here, huh… just what and what not to do. You know, don’t go the villages, stay away from the local ladies, you know that kind of thing. Interviewer: “Okay. Did they take you out on like a little patrol or something like that? Or have you stand bunker guard?” No, we stayed pretty much on base. Interviewer: “Okay, alright. So it was just a welcome to Vietnam orientation. And then from there now do they give you your assignment?” Yes. �Interviewer: “Okay. So what unit were you assigned to?” (17:37) 2nd 319, Artillery. And out of Camp Evans. Interviewer: “Okay, so 2nd Battalion, 319th Artillery, and which battery were you in?” I was in headquarters battery. But I bounced around with the other ones, depending on needs. Interviewer: “Alright. And of course, you’re there as a medic?” Correct. Interviewer: “Okay. Now when you joined the unit, what kind of reception do you get, what happens with you?” Um, I was assigned to a doctor. And I pretty much stayed with him by his side for nine months, that’s where I learned a lot. Hardly ever left Camp Evans. You know, [I] was introduced to medics that had been there for ten months and they’d tell their stories and I’d sit and listen, you know, taking it all in. So my duties are pretty much: I ran the pharmacy, I did sick call, with the doctor we would – at that time they were holding MEDCAPS, that’s where we’d go out into the villages around Camp Evans and hold clinics, I guess you’d call it. And I would screen the Vietnamese that were there, as to their needs, and they were the ones that got to see the doctor or I’d take care of them if I could. Interviewer: “Alright, so you got up there – so you’re with the MEDCAPS for instance, okay so would you go out into the villages or do you..?” No we went out into the villages, me, Doc, and one guy for security. So, you know, we wouldn’t go real far out, I guess the longest we’d be is maybe an hour drive in a jeep. Interviewer: “Alright, and what kind impression – what did the place look like if you’re driving out there in Vietnam outside of the base, what were you seeing?” In the villages it’s… [a] shantytown. I mean everything was just kind of… put together halfassed, you know it’s just… open markets, smelly, and then the nicer villages had built us kind of a – well it had a roof. You know, so you were out of the sun. And you would have the cross for… you know, that was their hospital basically cause there was none there. So we treated anybody that came. Interviewer: “And what kinds of ailments or things were you seeing—” Lot of it was rashes, there were some injuries from, you know, shrapnel, those needed to be cleaned and I usually got that kind of job. And Doc would get the serious stuff, coughing, you’d go see Doc – I didn’t do coughs. (laughter) Interviewer: “And the people, were they mostly old people, women and children?” (21:33) �A mix. Interviewer: “Okay. I’d probably do thirty immunization shots for the kids, you know, twenty to forty in each village. We’d probably see around thirty adults, adults would be you know, teenagers and up. Interviewer: “Now how did the Vietnamese sort of treat you or behave toward you when you’re doing this?” Respectful. We didn’t know if they were you know, on the right side or not cause there was no identification so you know, we could’ve been treating the enemy for all I know. I know in some of the villages when we’d – we’d usually leave Camp Evans about ten in the morning, and after sick call. And we’d get to the villages, they’d have their nighttime kills displayed on the outskirts of town. You know, kind of where you’d put the sign of the name of the village in the States, they’d have their dead displayed. Some were in full rigor. Interviewer: “Okay, so the rigor mortis – stiff, yeah? So these were sort of the Viet Cong they had killed the night before?” Supposedly, yeah. Interviewer: “So you know you’re in a war zone.” Yeah it’s… yeah. Interviewer: “Did you ever have any problems when you were out doing those MEDCAPS?” No. There was never any, for me anyway, any – I didn’t feel threatened, and yet we were very cautious. Interviewer: “Okay, so that’s one piece of that job, alright. Now what was daily life like on the base?” (23:36) Routines. You know, same thing, same place, everyday. There was none of the, you know formation stuff you got back in the States. I don’t know, I felt as though I had won a prize getting’ to be stuck with Doc cause you know, we actually had a permanent spot. Interviewer: “Now did the base – I mean, did the base get attacked at all?” We’d get a few rounds every now and then, more of a harassment, so you know, I basically spent most of my time in… it wasn’t really a bunker, and yet it was several layers of sand on corrugated steel for our roof. And then we had ammo boxes filled full of sand for the walls, and then between the two would be a little screen and some canvas we could roll up and down. Interviewer: “And so how many men would sleep in a place like that?” �Never really counted ‘em! The only time I really had any interaction with other men is if they needed help, other than that I pretty much stayed available. Interviewer: “So there wasn’t a team of medics there together?” No, generally there were two. As they came in, or were going back home, they’d come in and they’d spend a few weeks and we’d either say goodbye or orient new guys. Interviewer: “And were there different shifts, so that there was always a medic on duty or were you just kind of it?” It was me, me and Doc twenty-four seven. Interviewer: “Alright, and you were really just treating the people who were serving on the base?” Yes. Like if they went out [on] R&R I’d have to make sure shots were up to date, nonemergency issues were dealt with at the aid station, so they’d fly in on their own rather than us going out to the base. Interviewer: “Okay, so if you’re dealing with men from the different batteries in the battalion, that would be when they would come back to Camp Evans?” They would come when they needed help. You know, something that the medics out in the field couldn’t fix they’d come in to the aid station. Interviewer: “And would this normally be illnesses or non-combat injuries that you’re treating?” Correct. Interviewer: “Cause I guess there’s a whole separate process for the ones who get wounded badly.” Yeah, usually they’re dealt with by the medics and then they’re helicoptered to you know, medevac into the – wherever they need to go. Interviewer: “Yeah, they go to the hospitals and those kinds of things. So you’re, to a certain extent, insulated from some parts of the war so you’re a part of—” (26:37) Yeah well, one of the – don’t remember the name of it – anyway, the casualties would come in, they’d drop ‘em at the.. I wouldn’t call it a hospital, but they did surgery there. Emergency surgery, so yeah they were constantly flying in and out. And I’d go over there and talk with the guys every now and then, so we knew who belonged where. Interviewer: “Okay, now did you or the doctor ever sort of help out if a lot of casualties came in at once?” No, we pretty much stayed available for our guys. �Interviewer: “Alright, so to what extent did you pay attention to what was going on in terms of where the batteries where and what they were doing?” Well once or twice a month I would visit each battery and make sure that the supplies were, you know, were adequate for their needs. You know, stuff like that. Interviewer: “So would you fly out to the firebases then?” Yeah, in a helicopter. Interviewer: “Okay, and do you remember which firebases you went to?” Did I know? Interviewer: “Yeah.” Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, which ones – where did you go?” I went to all of them! In rotation, depending, you know – I’ve been on Ripcord before the final days, so… Interviewer: “Were you on – did you go to Ripcord at all in July of 1970 when the siege was going on, or had you been out there just earlier than that?” I had been out at least once a month, from when they – the 2nd 319 took over. They were only one of two batteries on the hill. Interviewer: “Right. And that battery was the one that got blown up on July the eighteenth, when the Chinook crashed there.” Yeah. I don’t remember exactly where I was, somewhere around the aid station, I wasn’t – I don’t think I was in the aid station, I was in the housing bunker, you know. Interviewer: “Were you on Ripcord when that happened, or?” Oh yeah. I was right there. I was probably within twenty-five, thirty yards. Interviewer: “Okay, so what do you recall from that day? You said you were in the housing bunker, so you were just…” (29:15) Well I knew where it had landed and I thought, ‘oh boy, this isn’t good.’ So ‘course right away they hollered ‘Doc!’ you know, so I go running over there and there’s already one running away and I took him into my bunker and was treating him and pretty soon another guy dove into my bunker, and then there was another one, and another one. And stuff started cooking off, so it seemed like a half hour or more but I’m sure it was just minutes, cause it doesn’t take long to cook off that stuff. The last guy that dove in was covered in blood, and I had a can of coke, and �actually he was the door gunner of the, of that Chinook that got shot down. And he had jumped out and slid down a hill, you know, he got all kinds of – that was our dump, you know, we’d walk it to the side and just throw it over the hill, so he was cut up from all the debris. And he’s in the book, and I had issues with his recall. And so I was on a mission on the first Ripcord reunion I went to, he wasn’t there. So the second one I landed on him. (laughter) Interviewer: “Alright, so did he just tell a story differently there?” Well yeah, you know everybody views things differently, and what had happened is we could see the rounds, from the ammo dump flying by the opening in our bunker and I thought, ‘boy, we’re in a bad spot,’ so didn’t take us too long to – we have to leave. So, and none of the other guys knew where the headquarters was and I says ‘I know where it’s at, follow me and we’re not stopping for nothing,’ and we’re going as fast as we can. And the guy that was the door gunner from the Chinook was last out the door, and he didn’t get any more than out the door maybe five feet, and boom – he gets blown into the concertina wire. Well I’m already you know, at least a fourth of the way to the headquarters bunker, and I turn around and look, and he’s pulling himself out of the concertina wire, he got cut up kinda bad, but he’s okay – scratches. And he recalled that I had left him there – and that wasn’t the case. Interviewer: “Did you go back and check on him, or did you just look and see how he was doing?” He was free from the wire, and he could run, and we were on our way in. So that whole thing took you know, five seconds maybe, but it’s a memory that’s burned into my head. Interviewer: “Sure. So basically helicopter crashes, and it’s carrying a load of ammunition – kind of lands on the ammunition—” Lands on our ammo dump, yeah. Interviewer: “And then the ammunition is kind of right near where the gun positions are, and so then the ammo blows up?” Well yeah, the ammo blew up and a lot of rounds landed in the … where the … were, you know. Interviewer: “So you heard the initial crash, and then did you look out to see what was happening, or just hunker down and?” There was no hunkering, there was – heard the crash, and ‘Doc!’ and away I went. Interviewer: “Okay, that’s right, they call – and that’s a standard thing they train you as a medic right, somebody calls for Doc, you go. So you’re going out, rather than back in. Okay, so once you get your group now back, did you get taken to the talk, or did you [get] taken to bunkers in that area—” Stayed and talked. And I went out when needed. That’s where I first met Doc Harris, we had a surgeon on Ripcord which was very rare. And we went on a casualty, and I thought we kinda quit working on him too soon, and he seemed, ‘well, there’s nothing more we can do,’ and he passed. Never saw him again, ‘til a reunion. (34:12) �Interviewer: “Alright, now did you leave Ripcord that day or did you stay on it?” Nope, stayed that rest of that day and it was afternoon when I went down. And the stuff was cooking off, CS gas, in my haste I’d left my gas mask so we just you know, hunkered down. Interviewer: “So did you stay overnight there, or did you..?” Okay, yeah… stayed overnight, stuff cooked off for quite a while, including the – you know, where the guns were. And I’m thinking to myself, ‘we got nothing to protect ourselves with.’ That was our ace in the hole, so just kind of – all night kind of waiting for the end. Interviewer: “Now were you able to fly off the next day?” Yes. I was the last one off of 319, along with the company commander and a couple of other guys, I don’t remember who they were. But I was stuck next to the used to be Captain Rich and he was replaced by someone I can’t remember. Interviewer: “Mhm. Right, cause Rich had been wounded at some point.” Yeah, he got wounded all the time - he got something like six or seven purple hearts. Interviewer: “Alright, okay. So then, you’re flying off – when you flew off, was the enemy shooting mortars at you at that time?” Yeah, they were trying to hit the pad where we were getting on and off, so… I was never so glad to leave any place in my life. Interviewer: “Okay. And then were back at Evans then, when the actual evacuation [of the base] took place?” Yes. We flew back and I remember it like a cow tank, you know, they’re kinda rectangle? And it was full of ice and beer when we got back. You know, sort of, ‘here you survived, here’s a treat.’ Interviewer: “That’s of course – so the battery personnel—” That’s at Camp Evans. Interviewer: “Yeah, and that’s sort of for your battery—” For our battery. Interviewer: “—they come back. And then a few days later the whole base gets abandoned.” The next day. You’d have to ask someone else who was there at that time. I think the engineers were there and they had bulldozers, you know, finished off what was left and— Interviewer: “I’m not sure they did that, the sequences seems to be they evacuated everybody on the 23rd of July and they bombed the place.” �Yes. To smithereens. Interviewer: “From where you were did you observe anything of the whole process, all the helicopters coming and going to evacuate the base, or did it seem like business as usual then?” (37:38) It was business as usual. Helicopters would be flying in and out of the camp hospital. Interviewer: “Yeah, that’s happening all the time anyway.” Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, alright. And then after that as far as you could tell did things quiet down, or did your job just stay the same?” My job stayed the same. Back to normal. Interviewer: “Okay. How much communication did you have with people back home while you were out there?” None. I called my wife twice, through the hand radio. Interviewer: “Okay so explain how that works, if you wanna call home and you’re in Vietnam?” Yeah, well you have to call home when it’s daytime there so that means it’s nighttime in ‘nam, so about two or three in the morning, you know, I’d get on the phone and wait for the ham operator to get the connections and then it was … over, so it was inconvenient. Interviewer: “Okay, well did you write back and forth a lot?” Yeah, some. Mostly, ‘I’m still here.’ Didn’t give any details, ever. The only thing I ever said about Ripcord is, ‘I got a good story for you when I get back.’ That’s all I mentioned. Interviewer: “Okay, now were you able to take an R&R while you were there?” Yes, but it was before Ripcord. I met my wife in Hawaii for our second anniversary, so we spent the week together. Interviewer: “Alright, and what was it like having to turn around, go back to Vietnam?” Not good. I’d already been on Ripcord, so I knew what was going on. Interviewer: “Yeah, you just gotta do it.” Pretty quiet ride, going back. Interviewer: “Alright, okay – now did you work with the same doctor the whole time or did he—” �First nine months. Total respect for him. Replaced by another doctor, who thought he could walk on water, and we didn’t get along very well. So the last three months were not as nice. I don’t remember his name. Interviewer: “Yeah, I mean – what kinds of things would he do that were…” Oh he had it on… you know, menial things for me to do. You know, just trying to keep me busy rather than doing nothing, just busy, nothing. Interviewer: “Alright. Now did he go out on the MEDCAPS too?” (40:18) No, he did not. Just me and the original doc. Interviewer: “Alright, now did the MEDCAPS continue after the first doctor left?” They did. Interviewer: “Okay – but the doctor didn’t go on them?” No. Interviewer: “So were you still going out yourself, or were other guys doing it?” No, it stopped. Everything changed. You know, new boss. Interviewer: “Alright. Now did you go into any of the larger cities or towns in Vietnam, did you get into Da Nang or any place like that, or did you just stay at Camp Evans?” No, I got into Da Nang but that was usually when I flew somewhere else, got to see my wife in Hawaii and fortunately I got to do another leave and I went to Hong Kong with one of the medics from B battery. Interviewer: “What was Hong Kong like?” A relief. Lots of bars, so just exploring the town. We booked a train thing up to the mountain and you know, touristy stuff. Interviewer: “Yeah. But some place where no one wants to shoot at you.” Correct – well, it was a week. We stayed a week yeah, so a week with nobody shooting at you was good. Interviewer: “Alright. As you’re thinking over the time that you spent in Vietnam, are there other memories or events or impressions that kinda stay with you that you haven’t really talked about yet?” We’ll leave ‘em buried. �Interviewer: “Okay. That’s entirely up to you. So now as you were getting toward the end of your tour, [were] you counting down the days for – keeping a calendar or anything like that?” No, it’s in my head, you know. Two digit midget, one digit midget, that sort of thing – countdown. I never got to one digit midget. I got two weeks early out, and I took it. They dangled an E6 in front of me, and I went before the board to get an extra rank and I would’ve had to extend… nope, I’m out of here. Interviewer: “Okay. So basically they were offering you a promotion if you stayed longer.” If I stay, yeah. (laughter) Interviewer: “So you’re gone. Now how do you get back to the states?” (43:06) Flights. We’d go to Japan and then to Seattle, on you know, a regular airline again. Interviewer: “Now where did you fly out of Vietnam from?” I believe it was Da Nang. Don’t know for sure, but one of the bigger airbases. Interviewer: “Okay, and when you get on the plane and it takes off is there a point when everybody cheers, or was it quiet?” It was quiet until we felt secure from getting shot down, yeah. And then we pretty much collectively gave the nation the finger. (laughter) Interviewer: “Okay, and so you go to Japan, and then from Japan…” To Seattle. Interviewer: “Alright, and what do they do with you once you get to Seattle?” We were issued new clothing, and I believe we were issued orders of where we were to go. And then we had another leave, I know we had time to get to that destination. I have one thing that my wife reminded me of this morning – you make friends on the plane. You know, similar experiences. So we decided to go out to eat together, don’t remember if it was breakfast or dinner, supper, but we went out to eat. And we were sitting there and the waitress was taking our order, and all the sudden what seems to be the manager comes over to our table – he says, ‘Gentlemen, we’re gonna have to ask you to leave – we don’t serve your kind here.’ That was my welcome home. Interviewer: “Wow.” We were in uniform, cause you had to wear your uniform to get your flight, and so yeah. Interviewer: “Welcome back to the United States. Okay – now at the airport, were there any problems – did you have troubles in the airports or was it just this guy?” �We weren’t there that long. It was like you get off the bus, you go to the terminal, and you wait and off you go. Interviewer: “Okay, but you didn’t see any protestors when you got there?” No – just the manager of the restaurant. Left a foul taste of Seattle in my mouth. Interviewer: “Alright, and then you go back home to Minnesota at that point, and then…” They weren’t all that way. I sat next to a lady that, we had a little talk and before we landed she asked if I had a ride to where I wanted to go, I said no, and she says, ‘well, I’d like to take you.’ So there were good people. Interviewer: “Good happens too. Okay, and now what is your next assignment? Cause you’ve still got some months left on your enlistment.” I tried to stay in Minneapolis cause they actually had need for a medic, but no, … Fort Sam. So we go down there and there’s medics crawling out of the woodwork, and I get initially stuck on a warehouse with two other, or three other medics and we comped gas masks once a month. Rest of the time we played cards. Interviewer: “Wow – how long did that last?” Three months. And the last three months I transferred out of that bunch and got into a group of guys that, once a day we would give a film – whatever they were learning that day, to new recruits. And occasionally we would have hands-on stuff. These were, I think they were Green Beret guys, I don’t really recall. They were not medics, but they learned our craft. And we would have goats and we’d put ‘em under sedation and we’d shoot em, and then they would practice you know, trying to keep em alive – keep it alive. And then at the end of their training, we would dispose of them. And for that we’d get the rest of the day off. ‘Course we were held to secrecy like everything else. (47:25) Interviewer: “What impression did you have of these guys that you were training?” They’re guys just like me. They got a better education than I got. You know, they were better prepared. Interviewer: “Cause I guess all of the special forces types had to have medic training cause they wouldn’t have any—” They worked in smaller groups, to my knowledge at that time. Yeah, the training that we had was wholly inadequate for what we actually experienced. Interviewer: “So there wasn’t really enough in terms of – cause you weren’t mostly treating combat casualties.” No. �Interviewer: “But—” On Ripcord I was. Interviewer: “Yes. Now for the rest, so your regular duties at Camp Evans was your training adequate or were you still a little—” It was adequate for that. But I was by a doctor, so I learned a lot from him. And we did have some casualties at Camp Evans you know, on the occasional mortar that we’d get. Interviewer: “Yeah. And did you have to learn things about tropical diseases and so forth once you were there?” Oh yeah, yeah. So I got to know what kind of creams and ointments and pills and – never was very good with the names but I could identify the.. by sight. Interviewer: “So when do you actually get out of the Army?” June of ’71. I’m in a hurry to leave. (laughter) Didn’t get my medals, barely got a uniform, you know dress screens I think I left with – I still got the coat, and they finally let me go and I was officially gone. I drove nonstop home, from Texas to Minneapolis. Interviewer: “Alright, so your wife didn’t come down while you were—” She was with me for the last six months, yeah. We rented an apartment which took half my – you know, we didn’t make that much. My whatever they call it, pay stub or… that’s all fuzzy stuff you know, it’s— Interviewer: “Now did she have a job while you were down there?” She did, yup. Interviewer: “And did you have any kids yet, or did that come later?” Nope, no kids. We waited quite a while, I had to kind of – for lack of a better word, stabilize. Interviewer: “Yeah, what’s the readjustment process like, just being back in the States and civilian life?” (50:12) Cold. I’ll give some instances – I was embraced by my father-in-law when I left. So I was expecting that same embrace coming back. Never got it – it’s almost like I had a disease. Trying to find employment was interesting. I don’t know, after about a dozen applications I finally realized that I should not put down my time in service, that I was a Vietnam veteran. Then I got a job. So that was interesting. Interviewer: “Did you have any of the kind of PTSD reflexes about things or was that not a problem for you?” �I was a bit skittish, yeah. Still I’m somewhat heightened by surroundings, and little things get my attention quickly. Still don’t like getting in corners. Interviewer: “Now what kind of work did you go into?” Well actually I took the first job I could get which was sweeping floors in a cabinet shop. They couldn’t keep me busy, so I went to the bench. And pretty soon I was on my own, then I entered an apprenticeship program and three years [later] I was a journeyman and I’d had enough of being cooped up in a room. So I went to management, didn’t like that, and I started my own shop and stayed with that for almost twenty years. Interviewer: “Alright, now as you look back at your time in the service, how do you think that affected you or what did you take out of it, positive or negative?” Attention to detail – which was important in work. Didn’t really talk about it for twenty years, I mean it just didn’t happen. So didn’t start talking about it ‘til I was installing a set of cabinets for a customer, and at the tail end he says, ‘you’re a Vietnam veteran, aren’t you?’ Yes I am – and so was he. And we talked for two days, and that was when I started to begin my journey out of my secret life I held in my head. Interviewer: “Alright, well I appreciate your willingness to share this story now, that’s—” 2011, you wouldn’t have said ‘hi’ to me. I mean, I wouldn’t have said ‘hi’ to you – I would’ve denied this interview. Interviewer: “Okay, well, … keep coming back. Actually it does make for a good story and one that adds some more pieces to the puzzle, and gives a view – one kind of set of duties people had in Vietnam, so thank you for taking the time to share it.” Ripcord was only, you know, ten days of my life. But it was a game-changer. Interviewer: “Yeah, alright. That should be a wrap.” [END] � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NelsonB2321V Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nelson, Bruce Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-07 Title A name given to the resource Nelson, Bruce (Interview transcript and video), 2019 Description An account of the resource Bruce Nelson was born in Wabasha, Minnesota, in 1949, and graduated high school in 1967. After he graduated, Nelson briefly attended a trade school to become an auto mechanic, but could no longer afford it, so he went to work in a metal foundry. Without a student deferment, he was drafted in June of 1969. He identified himself as a conscientious objector in his Army paperwork and was then sent to Fort Sam Houston, Texas for field medic training. In December of 1969, he was flown into Vietnam near Saigon where he drifted around the base for a while until he was assigned to accompany the 2nd Battalion, 319th Artillery, Headquarters Battery of the 101st Airborne Division operating just north of Hue at Camp Eagle. His duties included running the base’s pharmacy, working as a doctor’s assistant, and helping screen Vietnamese civilians who wanted access to local American Medical Civilian Action Programs (MEDCAP). He also made routine flights out to all the major forward fire bases to deliver supplies via helicopter to the troops. He was at Fire Support Base Ripcord in July of 1970 when a supply helicopter was shot down and crashed into the base’s ammunition depot only a short distance from the bunker he was operating in. After the crash, and exacerbated by diminishing ammunition, Nelson and the men at Ripcord felt as though the end was near for them. So, they hunkered down to survive the chaos before being evacuated the next day. After nine months, he was assigned to a different doctor to assist for three months. Towards the end of his deployment, Nelson declined the Army’s offer of promotion if he was to extend his service and was soon flown back to Seattle, Washington. For the remainder of his service, Nelson remained at Fort Sam Houston, working sparse hours in a military warehouse and training recruits for the Special Forces. In June of 1971, he officially left the service and, in his rush to leave, did not collect his military medals or his full dress uniform. His status as a military veteran hindered his ability to acquire a job, but once he began neglecting his military service on job applications, he got a few small jobs before opening his own shop. Nelson believed the service taught him to develop a greater attention to detail while repressing his wartime experiences to the outside, civilian world. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States—History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975—Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e5a52eff36c0523d32e7f7e583641498.mp4 c4bf91abc06a562446734c704ba26967 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5e35b7ff92a07afb27b6569f59b6cedd.pdf 09818a0c6812640ca13dea49a7584c3e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Larry Nelson World War II 1 hour 6 minutes 34 seconds (00:00:16) Early Life -Born in Warren, Ohio in 1924 -Grew up in Warren and attended high school there -Father was an accountant -Mother was a housewife -Father worked for Republic Steel Corporation -Kept his job through the Great Depression -Still was affected by pay cuts -Grew up an only child -His father was very interested in flight and aircraft and took Larry to air shows and airports (00:01:35) Start of WWII and Military Involvement -Remembers that his father followed the war in Europe before America got involved -He eventually got involved with the military because of his father’s interest in the war -Mother wasn’t happy about his joining the military -In 1942 he signed up for the Air Cadets at Ohio State University -Sponsored by the U.S. Army Air Corps -Had tried to enlist in the Navy and got told that he was only eligible for the Army -At Ohio State University ROTC (rear officers’ training corps) was mandatory -Being in the Air Cadets satisfied that requirement -Remembers sitting at his desk doing homework when his father told him about Pearl Harbor -Remembers how somber his father was and didn’t grasp the severity until later -Started noticing friends joining the armed forces -He joined the Army with an understanding that he would be deferred for four years -Two months later after joining his deferment was cancelled (00:04:43) Army Air Corps Primary Training -First phase of training was primary training in San Antonio, Texas -Was sent there in February 1943 -Primary training was essentially an accelerated form of Army basic training -Given physical and mental tests -Passing those put him on the track to becoming a pilot -Based on your test you would either become a bomber pilot or a fighter pilot -He was selected, and wanted to be a fighter pilot -Had been inspired by the air races that he had seen as a kid -Primary training consisted of a lot of physical training during the first few weeks -Spent most of the time running and doing calisthenics -Primary training lasted about two or three months (00:08:32) Army Air Corps Flight Training -Sent to Chickasaw, Oklahoma for fighter pilot training -Trained with Fairchild PT19: open cockpit, low winged, and fun to fly �-First part of pilot training lasted two months -Trained with sixty other trainees -Fair amount of them dropped out because they couldn’t grasp flying -Had civilian instructors training them -One was a Czech military pilot (00:10:50) Army Air Corps Basic Training -After Chickasaw they started training with the Vultee BT 13 Valiant -Learned how to perform aerial maneuvers in the BT 13 -Flight training in the BT 13 was accelerated -Had to be ready to move onto the advanced course in two months -Because of this the Air Corps wanted men who had had some college experience -Some trainees just couldn’t keep up during basic training or others died -During this second part of training they were operating out of Coffeyville, Kansas -Soldiers nicknamed it “Coffinville” because of high rate of trainees dying -Flew training missions at night and cross country -Prepared for flying at any time and to anywhere -At each base during training he always had to find two things for downtime: -A girl to date and a restaurant that could make him a BLT and a chocolate shake -Remembers dating a banker’s daughter -Got to drive the father’s brand new car as a result (00:14:36) Army Air Corps Advanced Training -Went to advanced training in Texas -Worked with the AT6: high powered training aircraft -Got introduced to flying the P40 fighter plane -Had to learn how to fly it on his own -No room for an instructor to fly with him -Flying the P40 was an extremely different experience -Incredibly powerful aircraft -Remembers the first time he took off in one -Most trainees were skilled enough that by advanced training accidents rarely if never happened -Trained with thirty other trainees -Same soldiers that he had started with (00:17:41) P47 Thunderbolt Training -After advanced training he was sent to Bruning, Nebraska -Began training with the P47 Thunderbolt -Larger, heavier aircraft -Once again had to learn how to fly it on his own because it was a single seat aircraft -Started off by simply learning how to fly the aircraft -Later graduated on to learning how to properly fly in formation (00:19:18) Weapons Training with the P47 Thunderbolt -Sent to Pierre, South Dakota for weapons training in the P47 -Skip bombing: flying in low and skipping a bomb into a target -Strafing a target with machine guns -Tow target: One plane towed a target while the other planes shot at the moving target -Never encountered female pilots during his training -There weren’t very many training accidents during weapons training �-Some pilots did crash on a rare occasion during a dive bombing training run -Learned how to skip a bomb into a hangar -Also was taught how to properly use wing tip gas tanks as skip bombs -After two months P47 training was complete (00:22:12) Deployment to Europe -After completing all of his training he was sent to Baton Rouge, Louisiana in August 1943 -Spent a month there practicing and preparing to be deployed -Remembers that the place smelled like oil -Sent to Norfolk, Virginia to board the Queen Elizabeth troop transport with 15000 other soldiers -Took five days to travel from the United States to the English Isles -Moved quickly because they didn’t travel with an escort -Landed in Glasgow, Scotland -Started to get organized and prepared to set up in England -Remembers doing kitchen duty on the ship and plucking feathers off of chickens -Remembers a soldier from Texas snuck a coyote pup on board with him -Wound up flying a few missions with him -Eventually got killed by being run over by an Army truck -Seasickness was a problem on the voyage over (00:26:55) Getting Established in England -After Glasgow, Scotland they were moved to Shrewsbury, England -Thunderbolt base was nearby -Became active after D-Day happened -Ten pilots were selected to be the replacements for the 78th Fighter Group -Spent a month in Shrewsbury, England -English men didn’t care for the American men -Visited London -English girls and older people welcomed the Americans -Got attached to the 78th Fighter Group in Duxford outside of Cambridge -He was part of the 82nd Squadron -Practiced his flying for a month while waiting in Duxford (00:30:23) First Missions -First mission that he took part in was a “maximum effort” missions -All available aircraft were called up to participate -He was given a clunker P47 and it couldn’t even really get airborne -Crashed into the trees at the end of the runway -Wasn’t injured or blamed for the plane crashing -Afterwards was assigned a brand new P47 -Second mission a week later went very well -He was able to keep up and do what he was supposed to do -Ran into forty German Me-109s while escorting American bombers -Managed to scatter the enemy fighters and complete the mission (00:32:57) Mission Conditions -Usually sent out three squadrons with each bombing run -One squadron would attack ground targets while the other two protected the bombers -The squadrons would swap during missions to attack and defend -When one attack run was over another squadron would swoop in �-He and the other P47s never really had planned targets -Looked for “targets of opportunity” -Remembers targeting trains specifically during missions -Bombers targeted the cities of Munster and Cologne especially -Always managed to avoid bombing or strafing the Cologne Cathedral (00:34:38) Encounters with the Enemy and Aircraft Quality -Remembers the first, and only time that he shot down a German aircraft -It was the jet powered Me-262 -Able to catch it just as it was taking off -Allies had better pilots, better planes, and there were more risk takers in the ranks -All in all it made for a better air force -Used the P47 not only for attacks and defending bombers, but also for dogfighting -In December 1944 they switched from flying the P47 to flying the P51 Mustang -Mustang was easier to fly -Lighter, more powerful, and more nimble -The German Me-109 was comparable to just about anything the Allies had -The German Fw-190 was not as good as the other German aircraft -The German Me-262 was fast, sleek, and one of the first jet fighters -Pilots weren’t very good though and it was terrible on gas (00:39:24) Interactions with the English in Duxford -Community around Duxford was a typical English one -Small town, more to do in Cambridge -Lots of pubs to attend in the area -Remembers that the ceilings were so low you had to duck -Went to dances fairly regularly (00:40:18) Flight Conditions -Sometimes got woken up at 4 AM because you were one of the scheduled pilots for that day -If it was a “maximum effort” mission everyone got up at the same time -On the days that you flew missions you were rewarded with a fresh egg for breakfast -Considered a luxury and a treat -Bomber crews had to be up at 2 or 3 AM -Took off first then the fighters took off later and caught up to them -Fighters flew above and below the bombers for optimum defense -Usually created massive formations of aircraft -Flak posed a far greater threat to bombers than to fighters -Does remember one fighter next to him taking a direct flak hit though -Usually flew at around 15,000 feet -German fighters usually looked for isolated groups of bombers that weren’t as defended -Strategy was to fly straight at the German fighters, opening fire to scatter them -Flew from right after D-Day all the way up to Victory in Europe Day (May 8, 1945) -Flew sixty six missions (00:45:19) Relationship with Other Soldiers -Squadron lost a fair amount of guys -Either killed or shot down and he never found out what happened to those shot down -Tried to ignore the absence of those that were shot down, made it easier -By the end of the war he and one other pilot were the only original members left �-He never got hit by enemy fire -Had a ground crew of three personnel -A crew chief, an armorer, and a weapons technician -Armorer and armorer’s family later attended his wedding -Maintained a strong connection over the years -Made lifelong friendships with other pilots that he met during the war (00:48:33) Awareness of the War’s Progress -He and the other soldiers were kept fairly well informed of the war’s progress -Regularly shown maps showing the advancing Allied frontlines -Given briefings that gave details of how much progress the Allies were making -Read the Stars and Stripes military newspaper -Also offered news telling how the war was going for the Allies (00:49:08) Battle of the Bulge -When the Battle of the Bulge began their flight activity increased -Some pilots had to fly two missions a day -Frequency of “maximum effort” missions increased -Allied soldiers wore colored vests to denote that they weren’t enemy targets -Also usually had soldiers on the ground coordinating targets for pilots -Tanks and railroad cars took top priority for attacks -Focus was denying armored firepower and supplies to the Germans -.50 caliber armor piercing incendiary rounds were extremely effective against tanks -Bombs were still the weapon of choice against armor though -Winter weather made it harder to fly missions -Snowstorms and low clouds were highly detrimental to visibility (00:52:05) Other Details and Later Missions -Didn’t like to fly over -Remembers flying raids against the V2 Rocket facility located at Peenemunde -Started flying missions to Berlin in January 1945 -P51 allowed for longer range due to better fuel capacity -Attacked everything that they could around and in Berlin -Missions to Berlin were extremely long (00:52:55) USO Shows -Movie stars would routinely visit the base as a part of the USO shows -Got to meet the movie star Marlena Dietrich -Got an autograph from her -Also got to see Bing Crosby, Bob Hope, and Francis Langford -Remembers that it was always a big occasion when a USO show was on (00:55:12) End of the War and Coming Home Pt. 1 -Looked forward to the end of the war in Europe -But knew that he would have to go and fight in the Pacific and Japan -Got sent to Santa Anna, California after two weeks of leave -His orders were to be deployed to Okinawa -After the atomic bombs were dropped that deployment was cancelled -He was sent to Fort Thomas, Kentucky to wait to be discharged -Those with the most “points” (combat time, commendations) got out first -He was one of the first ones discharged �-Recommended to go to the University of Pennsylvania -Passed their tests but found out he would have to go for four years -They wouldn’t accept any of the credits from Ohio State -Returned to Ohio State and got his degree in two and a half years -Remembers when President Roosevelt died -Everyone was extremely somber -News travelled quickly concerning that -Didn’t know much, if anything about Harry Truman (00:57:23) Details about Rank and Other Memories of the War -By the end of the war he was the most experienced pilot left in his squadron -His position was element leader -Equivalent to a 1st Lieutenant in the Army -Led four planes in an element -Two pairs per element and each pair tended to work independently -Had a few close calls during his time in the service -Oddly enough nothing really during combat, but during his training missions -Got lost flying over the Gulf of Mexico once -Was able to find his way to Corpus Christi, Texas and land there (01:00:31) End of the War and Coming Home Pt. 2 -Before Germany surrendered he knew that the war in the Pacific would drag on longer -He was in England when Germany surrendered -Went back to the United States on a much smaller ship -Only capable of carrying a couple hundred soldiers -Landed in Norfolk, Virginia and took a train back to Ohio for a couple weeks leave -Always was astounded by the level of organization necessary to carry out the war effort -Traveled across the country to California by train in club cars -Took the Santa Fe Scout to California -No air conditioning in the cars, humid, and no air circulation -Allowed to stop in towns along the way to get food at restaurants -Remembers that troop trains took priority on the tracks (01:03:50) Life after the War and Reflections on Service -When the war ended and he was discharged there was no push to reenlist -Military made it very apparent that the decision was entirely his -He chose not to reenlist -Knew some pilots that stayed in and went on to fly jets for the Air Force -At Ohio State University he majored in accounting-general business -Got an accounting job in Kalamazoo, Michigan and moved there -Worked in accounting for thirty six years -Still lives in Kalamazoo -Military gave him direction in life -Wife was the first girl that he met at Ohio State -Had two classes together during his junior year -They’ve been married for sixty seven years � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NelsonL1650V Title A name given to the resource Nelson, Larry (Interview outline and video), 2014 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nelson, Larry Description An account of the resource Larry Nelson was born in Warren, Ohio in 1924. He grew up there and attended high school there. After graduating from high school he attended Ohio State University, and after Pearl Harbor was bombed he decided to enlist in the Army Air Corps to become a fighter pilot. Beginning in February 1943 he trained at San Antonio, Texas; Chickasha, Oklahoma; Coffeyville, Kansas; back to Texas; Bruning, Nebraska; and wrapping up at Pierre, South Dakota. In 1944 he was sent over to Europe as a P47 Thunderbolt pilot where he joined the 82nd Squadron of the 78th Fighter Group stationed in Duxford, England. During his time in war he escorted bombers on raids to Munster and Cologne, asset denial missions all over Europe, and wrapped up flying a P51 Mustang during the Battle of the Bulge and conducting bombings raids on Berlin from December 1944 to VE Day. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-06-23 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1d47852304adeca681255418b5a5f566.pdf 872e44295af7e3a29e0fb69deb5a05ab PDF Text Text Young Lords In Lincoln Park Interviewee: Luis Neris Interviewer: Jose Jimenez Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 12/14/2012 Runtime: 01:25:37 Biography and Description Oral history of Luis Neris, interviewed by Jose “Cha-Cha” Jimenez on December 14, 2012 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. "The Young Lords in Lincoln Park" collection grows out of decades of work to more fully document the history of Chicago's Puerto Rican community which gave birth to the Young Lords Organization and later, the Young Lords Party. Founded by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, the Young Lords became one of the premier struggles for international human rights. Where thriving church congregations, social and �political clubs, restaurants, groceries, and family residences once flourished, successive waves of urban renewal and gentrification forcibly displaced most of those Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, working-class and impoverished families, and their children in the 1950s and 1960s. Today these same families and activists also risk losing their history. �Transcript JOSE JIMENEZ: Okay, so like I said, we’re going to start with just some basic stuff. If you could -LUIS NERIS: Sure. JJ: -- tell me your name, and where you were born, and your, like, date of birth. LN: Okay. My name is Luis Neris, I was born in Chicago, May 24th, 1965. And, yeah -- JJ: Where were you born, please? LN: I’m sorry? JJ: Where you were born, you said? LN: In Chicago. JJ: But I mean, where -- LN: Oh, hospital. It was Belmont Community Hospital. I don’t know if it exists anymore. (laughs) But, you know, we lived in -- you know, I’m just a product of some parents that came on that wave, came looking for jobs here. And (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) -- JJ: Tell me what your -- LN: -- here! JJ: Tell me your parents’ name, and -- LN: Papi is -- JJ: -- and where were you living at the time, when you were born? 1 �LN: Papi’s name is Luis Neris, also, Angel Luis Neris, and then Mami is Loida Gorgas. And they met here in Chicago. They married in -- [00:01:00] I was... You know, we lived on Halsted and Armitage, and every time we pass by the building, we don’t go by there much, I mean, it’s a different neighborhood from what I remember. And we lived right on the corner of Halsted and Armitage. 2022 North Halsted. Right across the street from that big old empty lot that I remember. And we lived there from -- JJ: People’s Park, we used to call that People’s Park. LN: People’s Park? I didn’t know that. (laughs) JJ: Yeah, it was. It used to be... LN: But we went to Santa Teresa Church, as a matter of fact, my wife and my kids still go there. We live way up on the north side now, by O’Hare Airport, but we still go there, because we still know some of the people from the neighborhood that still go there. Carmen Uvides still goes there, JJ: Oh, Carmen Uvides is still there? LN: [armen (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) is still there, she looks just as good as always. And, you know, I stay in touch with -- JJ: Who were some of the other people there? LN: Carmen Vasquez. [Fabian Pagan?] used to go there. [00:02:00] I think he retired and he moved to Florida, but there’s just, you know. And all these people, they know my dad, too. JJ: Yeah. And now, they were part of that Council Number Nine (inaudible) LN: They were there, yeah. 2 �JJ: Is that still existing, or (inaudible) LN: I don’t know about Council Number Nine. I don’t know if it exists. But yeah, they were always involved. And my grandfather was Francisco Marcano, and Paulita Marcano, they were my grandparents, and (inaudible). He’s the one that -- he organized a lot of -- he had an organization called Parents and Childrens, Padres y Hijos, and he had softball teams for adults, he started softball for girls, back, you know, now, I have my daughter playing on travel softball, but Marcano started some of those programs. And he started the Little League Baseball, as well, for, you know, he called it “La Liga ‘Pampers’.” (laughter) And I do have some of those photos, and I apologize I didn’t bring ’em with you, but I will make sure [00:03:00] you get ’em. Marcano, you know, we grew up on Halsted Street. You know, from there, we just moved down the street, and then, you know, we didn’t have money to buy property. Although my mom always wanted to buy. But my daddy, he’s always had this dream about coming to work here, make the money, go back to Puerto Rico. So he never invested, you know, and my mom wanted him to, but he just didn’t. But we always lived on Halsted, we rented -- JJ: I didn’t get his name and her name, your mom [or?] -- LN: Yeah, I said his name is Luis Neris, same as mine. JJ: Oh, [same as your name?]. LN: And then mami’s Loida. Loida Gorgas. JJ: Okay, no, that’s right, you’re right, I’m sorry. LN: And then we moved over by, it was Waller High School, right on Howe and Armitage. And we lived there for a while, but then we moved back to Halsted 3 �Street, I mean, and it was just -- I remember the neighborhood, and kind of, like, it was a lot of Puerto Ricans, and I remember in the summer, there was a pump JJ: What do you mean, a lot of Puerto Ricans? What do you mean? LN: Lotta Puerto Ricans living on the block. JJ: Lot, like [00:04:00] 40 percent, 30 percent? LN: Oh, no, no, I would say, like, a majority of them. I would say, like, 90 percent. I mean, when we lived on Halsted, Halsted and Wisconsin, and in the summers it was like, it was so nice, you see all these people outside, you know, just hanging out and talking. I mean, it was, after a hard day’s work they’re outside, and some people are playing the guitarra, I mean, I remember Perfecto Nieves playing the guitarra across the street, and then another foursome playing dominos, you know, while he played the guitarra, and the women over here talking, and the kids running all over the street. And in the summers, when it got really hot, I remember the water pump, right on Wisconsin and Halsted. They would put, like, a tire around it, with a board (laughs) so the water could shoot up, and somebody would, you know, come and open. I mean, Halsted Street is pretty busy now, but back then there wasn’t a lot of traffic, you know, and it was just... But that’s how I remember the neighborhood. [00:05:00] And then Marcano, I call him Marcano, but he pretty much raised my mom. He’s my mom’s stepfather. But that’s the grandfather I know. And he had all these organizations, and he had baseball leagues, and all the neighborhood kids played in it, it was Little League Baseball, he had the softball for girls. And he 4 �was always with a camera on. I mean, he would take a camera everywhere. And that’s when -- he would document so much, and it’s a shame that he’s not part of this piece, because he would have so much information. But before he passed away, he would tell me, he would say, “Hey, Luisi--” He called me Luisito, everybody in the family called me Luisito. And he’s like, “Mira, Luisito,” and he knew I was in school, and for whatever reason, he left everything to me. And I have all those tapes, and he left me a lot of pictures, and those are the ones that I didn’t bring. But I will make sure you get ’em, because I think they’re part of what you’re trying to docu-- what should be documented. [00:06:00] It’s a forgotten part. It’s a shame that it was just erased, but, you know, thankful that we have people like yourselves and [Grant?] and people who are interested in making sure that we don’t forget about what happened and how Puerto Ricans did live there, and... JJ: Why don’t you want us to forget it? LN: I think it’s important. I mean, it’s part of history. It’s important for people to know that we -- where we came from, where we lived, some of the struggles, I think, that a lot of -- my parents had... JJ: Like, what were they? LN: Well, you know, job unfairness. Just because of who they were, because they were Puerto Ricans. You know, I’m a little bit younger, but even now, I mean, I’ve had my experiences at work. I mean, I’m a government employee, and when I started -- JJ: [00:07:00] What do you do for the government? 5 �LN: I’m a federal investigator. JJ: Oh, okay. LN: Yeah. We investigate fraud against, you know, government programs. JJ: Oh, that’s good. That’s good. LN: And I’ve been doing that for a while, but, you know, and I can understand -- I mean, I see some of the stuff that I’ve experienced, and I can’t imagine what my parents, or even people back then, you know, experienced, as far as racial tensions or racial discrimination. It should be about who you are, not where you came from, not the color of your skin. I mean, Puerto Ricans come in all shapes and sizes and colors. Marcano, my grandfather, was Black. I mean, dark skin, afro. My grandfather, my dad’s father, was Black. I have a cousin who’s whiteskin, blue eyes, blonde hair. (laughs) I mean, they run the gamut, and I think it’s important that what happened in Humboldt -- not in Humboldt Park, in Lincoln Park, is documented, because [00:08:00] it’s gone. And we almost got pushed out. We almost didn’t, we did get pushed out, we got pushed west. I lived in Lincoln Park till 1991, ’92... JJ: Well, what do you mean, pushed out? Do you -- LN: Well, I think they kept getting pushed west. Prices -- JJ: How -- oh, prices. Oh. LN: Prices, rent prices were expensive. And the few Puerto Ricans who did buy, who had the property there, eventually sold, because they were -- some of them were not very well-educated. And they were smart enough to buy property, so if you buy a property, and I’m just throwing numbers out here, for 10,000 dollars, and 6 �then 10 years later, somebody comes and offers you 100, for them, it’s like, “Oh my God,” you know, “this is a good return on my investment, I’m outta here! Here, take my property!” And then that’s taken down, and then you build up a nice condominium, which is what started happening. And [00:09:00] so, either they got -- you know, a lot of people got bought out, if they had a building that was rented. “Sorry,” you know, “I sold the building,” and the new owner’s not gonna want these folks, because he’s gonna raise the rent, he wants it. And so a lot of the rents went up, properties were bought, and where else could you go? You had to go somewhere where you could afford to live. And I think people started migrating west. Wicker Park, you know, all those neighborhoods. And a lot of Puerto Ricans ended up in Humboldt Park as a result. I can’t go back any further than that, because I was born in the ’60s, but I do remember that. I do remember going to school at Newberry School, I went to Newberry, and then I eventually went to Waller -JJ: What was that like? What was Newberry like? LN: Newberry was a mix. It was, you know, it was a hood! (laughs) You know, you had Puerto Ricans and you had Blacks, and you had your other Hispanic, you had some Mexicans, but yeah, that was the school. I mean, [00:10:00] and it was kinda like -- JJ: It was a “hood,” what do you mean? What do you mean? LN: It was a neighborhood, where, you know, it’s just a term that we use, and... JJ: I know it has meaning to it, I’m just trying to find out what it means to you. 7 �LN: To me, the meaning that I give it is, it’s like, mi casa. You know? It’s where I grew up. It’s my neighborhood. And, you know, (laughs) “hood” is short for neighborhood, but that’s where, I believe... That’s what I call it. My “hood,” is because that’s where I grew up, that’s where I lived for most of my young life. And that’s where Newberry was. Newberry, I remember the clínica, right, on Halsted. It was a Infant and Welfare Society. And right next door there was a big ol’ empty parking lot. Not empty. It was a parking lot for the clinic. And right next to that was, Marcano had this club, this nightclub. JJ: Right. ’Cause there was Planned Parenthood, they [00:11:00] put that up later. LN: I think, yeah, that was much later. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) But that wasn’t Marcano. Marcano (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: No, that was not Marcano. JJ: So he had, like, a social club? LN: He had a social club. And these pictures that I have, he gave them to me, you know, there’s pictures of that club, there’s pictures of people you may even know. He has got video -- I brought it, because I wanted you to have it. He gave it to me before he passed away, wanted to make sure I kept it. ’Cause he always said, “I know you’re gonna do something good with it.” And I couldn’t get rid of ’em, you know, I was going through it the other day, and he’s got notes in there, you know, it’s like, stuff that he would write, and he... JJ: Now, you saw some of it, or...? 8 �LN: Yeah, exac-- You know, he would take the video and then he would make us sit down and watch this thing. And I remember, you know, he would put the reel-toreel, and we would sit there, and it was kind of cool because it’s like, you know those old movies where you see the (imitates a sound effect) (laughs) and you could see, there no sound, but you can hear that. That was the sound, I remember. And it’s all black and white. And I would see these movies over and over and over, and sometimes, you know, there are [00:12:00] some of them of us, when we were kids, and he would document us, and then, he would document everything. I mean, he would document whatever parade he had, excuse me, whatever event he had, he would take pictures, he had it all. And my grandmother always got mad at him, ’cause he would always store this stuff, and it would just, like. And it would start off as a little bit here, and then it would grow, and then he would move it (inaudible). I mean, it just expanded. And a lot of the pictures that he gave me, after he passed away, I made a video of him and my grandmother, and some of the things -- some of the pictures that he gave me, and I put it on a DVD and I sent it to my grandmother and my mom. Kinda like, as a memory of him. There’s a lot of pictures I didn’t put in there because, you know, there were other people that -- and I wanted it to be something of him. JJ: So we have pictures of him, too, then. LN: You do have pictures of him, you will have pictures of him. And I know when you see ’em, you’ll remember. And so, he gave me a bunch of [00:13:00] tapes, and he noticed that a lot of the -- and you’ll see, the reel-to-reel, it’s very fine, because it’s so old. But what he did, and this was his way of documen-- trying to 9 �secure it, he put it on the wall, and then he took a video camera, and he was, like, trying to, with a VHS tape. So there’s also a VHS tape of that film in here. So you’ll have it, and, you know, you guys are more than welcome to take it, and I’m sure I’ll put it in good hands. JJ: And did you need the original, or do you want us to...? LN: Whatever I give you, that’s what I’m gonna give you. I -- JJ: So then we just send you the copies? LN: Yeah. JJ: Whatever we want? LN: Yeah, I mean, whichever way is easiest for you. Because, I mean, I don’t have the capability of playing some of this stuff -- JJ: No, no, [we’ll do it there?] and then we’ll (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: And then the other tapes that he has on here is -- JJ: To the address you gave us? LN: Yes. JJ: Okay. LN: The recording, this was before cassettes, you know, remember the reel-to-reel things? It’s a little tape. __: Yeah. JJ: Oh, yeah. LN: And there was a lot of [00:14:00] stuff like that. I mean, the guy was amazing, and I was telling my wife the other day, he would make the camellos -- JJ: I definitely remember his name, I just (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) 10 �LN: He would do camellos. JJ: Been 40-some years, I can’t -- LN: And he would sit at home and we would run out of wire hangers because he was always inventing things. And he made horses--camels out of wire, and then he would have my grandmother drape it, you know, to make it look like a camel. And he would do this, like, you know, his little tweezers and his little tools, and now you see it, like, you see Santa’s snowmen outside of people’s lawns, out of the wire, I’m like, you know, Marcano, he used to do this stuff! The guy was a visionary. But he wanted to make sure that, you know, the Puerto Ricans there had somewhere to go. You know, I belonged to a boys club, boys and girls club in Chicago, when I got here. JJ: At that [00:15:00] time? LN: Well -- JJ: Was it the boys club on -- LN: There was a boys club, Eisenberg’s Boys Club. Right on... Orchard and Willow. JJ: Exactly, yeah. LN: And kinda like what Marcano had was, you know, similar to a boys club, but for adults, you know? He had all this organizations, all these people there, and they were all involved. I mean, there’s -- he -- JJ: So he had a sports social club (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: A sports social club. JJ: [I don’t wanna?] -- I shouldn’t label things, but (inaudible) LN: Well... 11 �JJ: Is that what he was, or [am I--?]? LN: Yep. Mm-hmm. Exacto. And he had a lot of people, and he -- JJ: Was it for the Caballeros de San Juan or was it just (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)? LN: He was part -- no, it was apart from Caballeros de San Juan, it was kinda -- I don’t know if it was something similar, but I remember he had -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) social clubs, there was a social club... LN: I think he belonged to all those clubs. He did. (laughs) And I have a younger brother who was also born in Chicago, he’s living in Puerto Rico, and I have a younger sister, also, who was born in Chicago. And all the family -- JJ: What’s their names? I didn’t get their names. LN: [00:16:00] Osvaldo Neris and Ivelisse Neris. But they moved with my mom to Puerto Rico years ago. But, you know, all my family, the Gorgas family, was there on Halsted at one time or another. JJ: Borjas? LN: Gorgas. JJ: Gorgas, okay. All right. LN: Yeah. G-O-R-G-A-S, Gorgas. Strange last name. Both of my last names, I think, are. (laughs) Pero, yeah, it was mostly Puerto Ricans, and I still run into people, the other day I was at the hospital with my dad, he had some surgical procedure done, and I saw, you know, a guy I grew up with, and he was waiting to get picked up, and the Uvides family, I don’t know if you heard of [Julio?] Uvides. 12 �JJ: Exactly. LN: And Carmen Uvides. JJ: They were from Council Number Nine (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: Yeah, they were involved too. I mean, they did a lot, and... I think Marcano eventually named one of his leagues the Julio Uvides Baseball League, and that was for the little kids. And then he had Julio [00:17:00] Uvides Softball League. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) at that time. (inaudible) LN: And he used to have the slow-pitch softball. JJ: He was definitely a community leader. LN: And that was a lot of people, I’m telling you, [like?], Lincoln Park, I mean, he used to get permits for everything there. At Lincoln Park, the actual park, not the neighborhood, but the park. And he had permits, he knew the guys at the park district, they would -- but I remember -- I do remem-- JJ: Did he have a city [dab?] or, no, [he didn’t?]? LN: No, he didn’t. No, he didn’t. JJ: He didn’t? LN: No. JJ: But he just knew the guys at the park district. LN: Knew the guys at the park district. JJ: So he was working with the mayor at that time, then. LN: He wasn’t working with the mayor. He had the organization, and I don’t know how, I mean, I’m not a politician, but now, you know, having seen stuff that happens in the paper and how things work in Chicago -- 13 �JJ: [You gotta?] (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) the city. Yeah. LN: You know, you gotta know somebody. And, you know, Marcano did have a lot of people in his organization. A lot of parents. And there was not a fee, I mean, Marcano didn’t charge a fee. And I think even for the kids, I think, maybe they would get uniforms, I don’t know how the whole uniform thing worked out, but when you [00:18:00] have an organization that big in a neighborhood, and... You know, it’s all about votes, you know? And I’m sure the politicians are gonna come and say “Hey,” you know, “who’s the leader here?” And they would talk to Marcano. And I do remember, you know, we had baseball bats, we had gloves, we had everything. We had boxes, and Marcano would lug it around in his big ol’ station wagon in the back, you know? Bases, everything. And so, it’s just the way, I guess, politics works (laughs) and you get the -- JJ: Yeah, exactly. That’s the way it did work. You had an organization, you were good. LN: They wanted it. Those are votes. I think they see them as votes. But he had a lot of contacts, he had a lot of connections. And I never asked him, and I don’t know how the whole -- JJ: So he never talked to you about politics, he talked to you about sports. LN: Exacto, yeah, yeah, he never pushed the politics part, yeah. JJ: So he was more [interested in?] (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). LN: They knew that -- I think that -- I have cousins who eventually did work for the park district, and I think they worked with the ward person at the time -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Committeemen, [00:19:00] whatever. 14 �LN: Committeemen, yeah, and, you know -- JJ: [Aldermen?] (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: -- kinda knock on doors, and, you know, it’s just the way Chicago is. (laughs) And some of them are still working there, I think some of them retired. But Marcano, I remember, before he left to Puerto Rico, because he got older, and he’s like, you know, “I’ve had it here, I’m gone.” And he left in, I wanna say 1986, ’87? That’s when he left to Puerto Rico? JJ: What do you think he was mad about, or frustrated, or whatever? LN: Why he left? JJ: Yeah, why he went (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: No, he left because he was just, you know, he was here alone. I mean, he had us, and I considered him my grandfather, I mean, I knew him my entire life, but I think he was at that stage in his life where he said, “You know what, I --” The winters were brutal here. I do remember when he left, he’s like, “You know, I can’t handle another winter here.” So he left. I mean, he’s like, he’s got a house in Puerto Rico. “I’m going back.” And that’s what he did, he went back. I don’t think he was frustrated, I mean, he loved Chicago. [00:20:00] You know, he came here. I remember the video. Again, I’m going all by memory for the video. There’s video of him coming to Chicago, and they’re saying goodbye to him in Puerto Rico, and then he’s got the camera here. I mean, he brought the camera with him. He’s documenting everything. But I don’t think there was any frustration about anything, I think it was just... He lived in the neighborhood for a long time, and I think he, mor-- 15 �JJ: Did he talk about why he documented? I mean, what was his fascination (inaudible)? LN: You know, it’s a shame that he’s not around to tell you, because, again, I was giving the example of the stuff we ran out of wire hangers. And how he would make stuff, like, out of wire hangers. The guy didn’t have an education, and I see snowmen on people’s lawns, and reindeers, out of the same thing. Maybe it’s that he saw, “This has gotta be documented somewhere.” Maybe this is what he wanted all along, to make sure that [00:21:00] the Puerto Ricans in that neighborhood, or the Puerto Ricans coming here, were not forgotten, that they lived in Lincoln Park, and then, that asides from, you know, more or less having to move out of the neighborhood for whatever reason, whether through sale, or rent increases, or whatever -- JJ: Was the moving going out -- were people moving out at the same time that he was documenting, or? LN: I don’t think so. No, I -- well, he documented when we were living there. Again, I’m going back to what I remember from what -- and you will see this. The activities, I remember something going on at a church on Armitage, between Armitage and I don’t know if it’s Bissell or Burling. It’s Burling, right? JJ: The church there? LN: Yeah, the church there. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) people’s church -- LN: People on the street, I remember, you know, being on my -- on the film, I think I’m there, I’m on my dad’s shoulders, and there’s people everywhere. I don’t 16 �know what they were shouting about, or what they were screaming -- I was a kid, you know. (laughs) And I haven’t seen the movies in a long time. But he [00:22:00] documented everything, and I think when he -- he had a restaurant, too, called El Batey Restaurant, right on Halsted and Armitage. JJ: El Batey LN: A lot of people coming through. I remember politicians coming in and getting bussed in to the back seats, where the big tables were. (laughs) You know? And they were seated, and not for nothing, but, you know, Puerto Rican women know how to cook, man, and they (inaudible). (laughter) I gain a lot of weight when every time I go to Puerto Rico, ’cause Mami takes care of me like I’m a king, and I’m like, “I can’t do this.” But they cook really good, and he had the restaurant there, so he documented a lot of that stuff. He had events there, you know? He did plays, I remember being part of the Christmas plays. He made a play called El puerco de Osvaldo en tiempo de Navidad. And he came up with the skit. JJ: “The pig of Osvaldo in the time --” LN: Yeah, “Osvaldo’s pig in the time of the holidays”, you know? And Osvaldo would go to everybody, the thing is, Abuelo would go to Osvaldo, which was my younger brother, you know. He would go to everybody’s Christmas party and eat lechón, and he had a little pig as his pet. And you know, they [00:23:00] were like, saying, “Hey, you know what! [Get away?], your time’s coming!” He’s like, “No, not this year, maybe next year.” So he would eat everybody’s roasted pig, but nobody -- like, he never, I mean, that was his pet, he would never get rid of it, 17 �like, no way. And he made stori-- and we would play ’em at the -- we would do the play at the Museum of Science and Industry. And I remember his organization also was in charge of decorating the Puerto Rican Christmas tree at the Museum of Science and Industry. And that was an event in itself. They would make the maracas. He would make the little... The big knives, machete. (laughs) When he would knit the little Puerto Rican flag, and he would make the little pavas, the little jíbaro hats, and he would put a ribbon in. The tree was decorated, I mean, I remember my grandmother used to do this stuff, ’cause they -- grandma was a decorator, and my mom, they loved decorating, they loved arrangements and stuff, and they would do all these little things for the tree, and it was a beautiful [00:24:00] tree. And then he would have people coming over during the holidays, and you know, (Spanish) [00:24:04], you know, there was a parranda, and then trying to tell people what Puerto Ricans were like. And I don’t know if you know about the Museum of Science and Industry, they have the “Christmas Around the World”, and every year they decorate a tree from each country around the world, and it’s an exhibit. I think it’s going on now, through the end of... Maybe after January. But he would document all of that stuff. And as a kid, I remember, you know, living there, and being part of this, and then eventually having to move out because, again, he didn’t own the property. He had the restaurant there, we lived upstairs. He eventually had to move somewhere else because they sold the building, he had to get rid of the restaurant. So he went to Orchard, it was on Orchard Street, 1665 North Orchard. It was between [00:25:00] North Avenue and Willow. And it was all 18 �projects that are there, it’s low-income housing. And because they were now older, you know, they got an opportunity to get an apartment that -JJ: Willow and... Orchard? LN: Willow and Orchard. JJ: Where the boys club was. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: Yeah. Well, you know, the boys club was torn down. (laughs) ’Cause they tore that boys club down, because enrollment dropped, I remember, and it was valuable property. JJ: So was that crime (inaudible)? So was that Section 8, or...? LN: The boys club? JJ: YeahI mean the -- what they built afterwards. LN: No, yeah, those were condos. JJ: They were condos? LN: Oh, yeah, they tore the boys club down and -- condos. I do remember -- JJ: [Were you?] saying you lived there, somebody lived there, right? LN: Yeah, my grandma lived there. Well, it was right on the corner, the boys club was right on the corner -- JJ: But they didn’t live in a condo. Did they, or did they live in a condo? LN: My grandparents? JJ: Yeah. LN: No, no, they lived -- well, the boys club was right on Willow and Orchard. Right on the corner. And then, the boys club had that corner lot there. The Section 8 housings that I’m talking about is behind it. So, [00:26:00] that’s where -- we 19 �could walk to the boys club from there, I remember. We would walk from the apartment to the boys club. Then, when the boys club enrollment dropped, or maybe, again, somebody was offering a lot of money, it’s prime property, they tore that down, that entire block from Orchard and Willow, almost to Laramie, or to Howe, I think Howe was the next street over. And you know what, I think it even went over to Laramie -- Larrabee, Larrabee, which is further down. And all that whole block was torn down, and they made condos, very expensive condos, I remember. And then when they tore the boys club down, we had nowhere else to go, I mean -JJ: So you went to the boys club? LN: Oh, I went to the boys club. JJ: So what happened in there, what was going on there? LN: It was more after-school activities. I remember -- JJ: And who was the population, I mean, (inaudible)? LN: Mostly African American from the Cabrini-Green homes. And then you had your few Puerto Ricans that would come in. I remember I went there, and yeah, I think the fee was, like, I don’t know, two, three bucks for the year. And we got our little card, and we would go there, play basketball, we’d go swimming. JJ: No dodgeball? LN: [00:27:00] Oh yeah, dodgeball, kickball, you name it. Softball in the back. The boys club was so big, I mean, the lot that they had, I remember there was a softball field in the back. And they would have events in the summer, like, you 20 �know, summer Olympics or something. I mean, yeah, but mostly it was African American, from Cabrini-Green and in the neighborhood, but then you had -JJ: At that time. LN: At that time. JJ: We played dodgeball, when I was growing up. LN: Oh, is that right? (laughter) And then you had your Puerto Rican -- JJ: It was more Puerto Rican then, but (inaudible) LN: Yeah. (laughter) Yeah, I eventually (inaudible) you got out! JJ: (inaudible) Cabrini-Green got pushed out to later. LN: Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. That’s -- JJ: I’m sorry, I’m going off -- LN: That’s changed big time. JJ: I’m going off the time. LN: Pero, pero no, I mean, I mean, that’s what I remember. JJ: But you remember playing basketball there and that you played (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: Basketball, oh yeah, absolutely, basketball, softball in the back. Again, you know, dodgeball, kickball, they had the nice swimming pool. We would go in there, they would let us in at night. I forget who we knew, or maybe one of my friends knew somebody who would open the door for us, and we would go in after hours, which was [00:28:00] kinda cool, it was just -- we had the swimming pool all to ourself. Obviously under supervision, [we didn’t?], you know, go in there by ourselves. But nothing I would admit to on tape. (laughter) Pero it was, 21 �you know, it was a good time. It was a good time, and it’s unfortunate that, you know, I mean, it is what it is. I eventually moved out, myself, ’cause it just got too expensive. After Marcano moved out, it was -- his rent there was based on his income, and because he was on Social Security, he paid, like, I think it was, like, something crazy, like, 64 bucks or something. Entonce, and I was there, I was at school at the time, I went to Columbia College. And it was just him, my grandmother -JJ: What was your major there? What was that? (laughs) LN: Communications, imagine that. (laughs) And I’m doing something completely different now. JJ: (inaudible) LN: But he, you know, he paid something crazy, and then when he moved, we had to report it. And so I reported it to the office, [00:29:00] and the rent shot up to 400 bucks, and I was there by myself. And it was okay, I mean, I delivered pizzas in the neighborhood, I mean, at O’Fame Restaurant and I did that for six, seven years, and they actually, it was pretty good money, you know. Cash money, no taxes. (laughs) JJ: Tips, you [got?] those. LN: Tips were great. I delivered mostly in the Lincoln Park area, which I knew like the back of my hand, and we would come downtown as well, and up north. And they fed me, and I worked three, four nights out of the week, I was living by myself, I’m eating pizza. I love pizza! (laughter) I wanna have pizza in the morning, you know, I wanna have pizza at night. And every night, they had food 22 �for us. So it was a good thing for me. But, you know, the 400 dollars, man, it’s like, I’m a college kid! You know? I gotta pay school, I gotta pay my own bus fare, you know, and granted, we did get some financial assistance, I got financial assistance, but it just wasn’t enough. And then, I did that, and I got a job when I graduated -JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) ’cause, I mean, at that time some people, [00:30:00] I remember we got paid, like, 80 dollars a month, so... LN: Is that right? JJ: So 400 is a lot. LN: It is a lot. JJ: When they raised it to 400, [we moved?]. LN: I had to. (laughs) I had to. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: Yeah, I had to. I think I stayed there for a bit, but you know, it was -- I made a little bit more money than my parents, you know, it’s like, I made about 75, 80 bucks a night, at the time, back in the ’80s, I think that was good, man. JJ: Very good. LN: For a kid, you know, working -- JJ: So this was the ’80s, ’cause you were living there in the ’80s, that’s [pretty?] -- LN: I was still living there, yeah. The ’80s. JJ: That’s pretty (inaudible). I thought that most Puerto Ricans were gone by that time, no? They just -- LN: They were. Oh, yeah, absolutely. 23 �JJ: So when was the change, did you see the change? LN: You’re absolutely -- oh yeah, I saw it. I mean, I think we were probably -- JJ: What was that like, the change, can you describe that or...? LN: I mean, we wouldn’t even venture down Halsted Street. We didn’t know anybody. You know, it wasn’t the same. I told you the story about when I was a kid, remembering the Puerto Ricans playing the guitarra, playing dominos, you know, hanging out, haciendo chiste’, [00:31:00] the kids running around, you know. There was none of that, ’cause you know, our culture, we love to enjoy everything, I think. And we go to the extreme. (laughs) You know? And we have the parrandas in there, and we go all out. And you can still see some of that in Humboldt Park, if you drive down Division Street, I’m sure you can see that in the summer. Pero, when we moved over there, to the Section 8 housing, I don’t remember any Puerto Ricans. Any Puerto Ricans. I lived on 1911. I think there’s still one family there. JJ: Halsted, or...? LN: 1911 North Halsted, which is right by Wisconsin. And the house that we lived there, it’s still there, ’cause I drove around there not too long ago. And I am willing to bet that the guy who bought it -- the guy who owned it when I was there, either his daughter or his -- somebody, they still own it. It’s still there. 1911 North Halsted. And I think that’s the only family. But it was a complete change, there was none of the hanging out outside, none of the, [00:32:00] you know, us playing against the guys from down the street, there was none of that. Because, it’s a completely different, you know, young people were moving in... 24 �JJ: Some people would think that hanging out outside would be rowdiness or something like that. LN: I don’t remember -- JJ: Was it like that, or (inaudible) LN: I don’t remember it being rowdy, not at all. No. I mean... JJ: Or at least scary, or something. LN: You know, it’s just that the people that live there, they like the music. That’s probably what they did in Puerto Rico, you know? And they just brought that here. To other people, they’re more like, “Oh, what are they doing hanging outside?” You know? But I don’t remember it ever being a problem. ’Cause it just wasn’t one night. You know? I mean, it wasn’t every night, though, ’cause people had to work. (laughs) But I remember the hanging out outside, you know, absolutely. But it wasn’t -- yeah, you’re right, people may consider it hanging out, you know, it’s not like a bunch of kids hanging out, it’s a [00:33:00] whole different world nowadays, you know. Kids hanging out outside, you know, in groups, nowadays, cannot compare to hanging out back in the day, when I was growing up, ’cause it was just kids running around, parents were outside. You know, there was, at least for the most part, at least from what I remember, I saw Mom and Dad there. Not speaking in terms of my mom and dad, but mom and dads of other kids there. Like, the couple. Nowadays, different, divorce rate, whatever. You don’t see Mom, you don’t see Dad, you just see the kid, and his buddies hanging out outside. And you can make your judgment on whatever you see there at the time, but, you know, my hanging out that I’m describing is, it was 25 �a good hanging out, you know. It wasn’t none of the, like you said, people may perceive it as being bad, but when we moved over there, it was a whole different neighborhood. I mean, it was just -- there was -JJ: Over where, to...? LN: When we moved over by the boys club, [00:34:00] by the Section 8 housing, the Halsted that I remember was pretty much gone. I mean, condos were going up, houses were being torn down. You know, different people moving in that were not Puerto Rican, people who owned the property or people who rented it. And it just, you know, it was just a different neighborhood. I mean, completely, it was transformed. But I was too young, I mean, I didn’t know. Marcano probably did. That’s probably why he documented it. Maybe he said, “This eventually will be part of something.” And, you know, you’re gonna have it in your hands, and you guys can do what you want. What I did not find, which I know I still have at home, is a bigger reel-to-reel. And I have your address, I know I’m gonna find it, ’cause we were moving some stuff around. And I got the pictures. And he wanted to document [00:35:00] everything. I don’t know why. Maybe it’s because we take pictures. I have a camera at home, I got over 20 thousand pictures of my kids, you know? (laughs) And maybe that’s just what I -- I enjoy doing it. JJ: Well, some of that (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Some of that we’d probably also would like, ’cause it’s about you, I mean, this is all histories about you. [I mean?], I’m glad that we were honoring Marcano, because he definitely -- I appreciate what he was doing. 26 �LN: Yeah. JJ: I mean, as someone who’s trying to document stuff now, I appreciate what he was -- LN: I will tell you, Cha Cha, that if -- JJ: And he was a leader, he was definitely a born leader -- LN: He was a definite leader. JJ: -- in Lincoln Park (inaudible). LN: I mean, I don’t know what your budget is like, but my grandmother’s still alive. His wife. She’s in Puerto Rico. And -- JJ: We do go to Puerto Rico, I just came back from (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: If you go to Puerto Rico, let me know. I mean, she lives in Gurabo. Right next to her, right literally next to her is her son, her younger son, Junior Gorgas, Jose Gorgas. [00:36:00] And, you know, they have a lot they could tell you as well. And Abuela, although she’s a little bit older, she’s in her nineties, and she doesn’t remember what happened yesterday, she’s got an amazing memory of what happened 40, 50 years ago, you know. And I’m sure she could provide you with a lot more info as well. More about -- because, remember, I was a younger kid. I remember just, you know, being born there with the -- Papi told me that was the building, and I remember what I did as a kid on Halsted -- JJ: [No?], your generation is what we’re talking about, too, so -- LN: Oh, pero if you’re looking for further back, Abuela, and Marcano, who unfortunately passed away, Abuela would definitely have more. Because she 27 �lived through that change, and she, you know, she was a little bit older. She remembered a lot more. And -JJ: You don’t know what year they came to Chicago, do you? LN: Well, I was born in [00:37:00] ’65. I wanna say, I think my mom, she said she was 17, 18 when she had me, she wasn’t born here, she was born in Puerto Rico. I wanna say maybe in the late ’50s, it’s gotta be late ’50s. JJ: Now did they always say they lived in Lincoln Park, or did they live somewhere else before that? LN: Always Lincoln Park. Always Lincoln Park. JJ: So they came in the late ’50s to Lincoln Park. LN: As far as I remember, yes. ’Cause I remember, for a while, I don’t know if you heard of a company called [Cumings Display?]. (laughs) It’s a flower shop. And they used to work there on Halsted Street. But they lived on Ar-- my abuela lived on -- JJ: Yes, I do remember that. LN: -- on Armitage, right by Santa Teresa, right by the L. JJ: Cumings Display, okay, [that?] (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: Cumings Display was on Halsted, it was a flower shop, and then they eventually moved downtown to Wells. I remember coming downtown with my mom and my grandmother. Maybe that’s where they got -- JJ: So they’re on Wells now? LN: They used to be, I think they closed. I mean, it’s been [00:38:00] years. Pero -- JJ: But they were by Saint Teresa’s? 28 �LN: Yeah. They were. And Abuela and Marcano, I remember them living by Santa Teresa church. JJ: You didn’t go to Saint Teresa’s. LN: Oh yeah, oh yeah. JJ: Oh, you went to Saint -- LN: To school? No. I went to the church. JJ: What was going on there? LN: Oh, Sunday mass. JJ: Oh, so you went to Sunday mass. LN: Yeah, yeah, Sunday mass. So they always lived in that neighborhood. Entonce’, when my grandparents decided to go to Puerto Rico, ’cause the winters were just too brutal here, they were still living over there at the houses on Orchard and Willow. So they always lived in Lincoln Park, from what I remember. I don’t know if they ever went -- they lived in Humboldt Park -- I don’t think -- I think they came to Lincoln Park, and that’s where they lived. And eventually, that was their last place. When they left, they went to Puerto Rico, you know, and that’s where they were until his death, and she’s still alive, she’s still kicking. 90 years old. And she looks good, [00:39:00] for her age. JJ: So they only moved because of the brutal winters, or? LN: I think, yeah -- they were retired, you know. There was nothing else here for them, they couldn’t do anything else. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) [retired?]? LN: Yeah. 29 �JJ: You said that the restaurant was closed down? LN: Well, the restaurant, they sold it. JJ: Twice? LN: Because he -- well, he didn’t own the building, he sold the restaurant. I mean, he rented the restaurant, and he rented the whole building. ’Cause he had the restaurant on the first floor, and then the upstairs apartment -- JJ: And this was on what corner, again? LN: Halsted and Armitage. JJ: Right on the-- (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: 1971 North Halsted was the address. JJ: Oh, 1971, okay. LN: ’Cause 1973 is [Nick’s] Bar, which is right on the corner, so we’re right next to the bar. (laughs) But yeah, good business, because, you know, the bar people would come over, and Puerto Rican food. (laughs) [Patilillo, murcia?], whatever they would make. And so he sold the -- I guess the restaurant -- they raised the rent, and he said, “I gotta go.” But he had the restaurant, [00:40:00] too. So he sold the restaurant to somebody else, and they kept it, they kept the name for a while, and then eventually they closed. Maybe ’cause they couldn’t cook as good as my mom or my grandma. (laughs) JJ: Now, you mentioned the people hung out on the corn-- on the outside, and that you were outside people, you hung around out there playing dominos and music. LN: Mm-hmm. JJ: Was there any -- how was the gang situation there? 30 �LN: I don’t remember a gang around there. I don’t know if it’s because -- my grandmother was very... She would always tell us, you know. She would always say, “Hey, don’t hang out, this --” She was always careful. Always watching out for us, you know. And I’m thankful for that because, you know, we were very vulnerable young men. But it was just the guys hanging out. I mean, we never -what I remember, I don’t remember ever having any troubles with gangs. As a younger kid, I remember, when we were on Armitage one time, I went to the store ’cause my mom sent me, and it was over there, it was a store right under the [00:41:00] L on Armitage, right before you get to Sheffield. And there was a store right by the alley, I don’t know, to get something, and I remember the Latin Kings being there. And there was Latin Kings there, and I think there was another gang up north, there was Harrison Gents over there by Larrabee, but over there on Halsted, I don’t remember ever... We didn’t venture too far from there ’cause, you know, our parents wouldn’t let us! (laughs) She was always watching us. But on Halsted Street, I don’t remember... JJ: That hangout that you’re saying was at the end of -- but by that time Lincoln Park was kind of gone. LN: Yeah. JJ: So was it kinda unstable at that time (inaudible)? LN: Yeah, I mean, I don’t remember the gangs -- JJ: But growing up, you didn’t see a lot of gang activity or anything like that. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: Well, when I went to high school -- 31 �JJ: [I know there were?] clubs, wearing sweaters and (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I went to high school, I remember -- I went to high school, I went to Waller one year and then it turned into Lincoln Park. And I remember that. And of course, you know, you see the guys come [00:42:00] in their sweaters. I remember the black and gold sweaters, and I remember the black and white from the Unknowns, and I think Eagles would come around once in a while... JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: And the Harrison Gents, which weren’t too far. You can’t compare to today, though. I mean, back then, people used to fight. Now, they shoot you. (laughs) You know? And... JJ: Right. So you can’t compare to today, and it wasn’t really... LN: I don’t think it was as -- JJ: It wasn’t really, like -- people weren’t associating with a club or something. LN: Yeah. Yeah. But just like anything else -- JJ: Is that what you’re saying? I don’t wanna put words... LN: Just like anything else, you’ll see a bunch of guys, and then there’s another, you know, you look at each other the wrong way or whatever, they don’t like you, you don’t like them. But I don’t remember -- JJ: You’re describing the later part of (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: Yeah, but I was just gonna tell you, I don’t remember -- 32 �JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) describing the ’80s, you’re describing the ’70s and ’80s. LN: I don’t remember the violence, you know, I remember -- and it was more like social clubs, like you said. There’s hanging out, and, I guess, for whatever, [00:43:00] you know, did they have their illegal activities? Yeah, probably. You know? I mean, it’s been around for years, you know? I don’t see why they would be any different. But, you know, it wasn’t -- at least, from where I remember, on Halsted Street, it wasn’t none of that stuff, and guys coming around -- JJ: So, (inaudible) [summarize?], so you remember it was more family-oriented, though they were outside. LN: Absolutely. Yeah. JJ: Not gang, like today, or... LN: No. No, no, no. JJ: Trafficking in drugs, or (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: No. I don’t remember that. And maybe, if it was around, I mean, I didn’t see it, you know. (laughs) Definitely didn’t see it. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Your family (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: Nowadays, they do it out in the open market. I mean, they’ll all be out there -- JJ: -- not part of that, yeah. LN: Yeah, no, we were never part of that. JJ: Okay. You know, and I think that’s important to know, you know, people were just outside like they were in Puerto Rico, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) 33 �LN: Right. Right, right, right. Yeah, and it’s not -- it wasn’t no, no, no, no. No big wild parties every time it was out there, it was kinda almost like serenading, you know? I liked to sit around at home, and it was quiet -- JJ: And you were born, you s-- so we’re talking about a period after the [00:44:00] community was there for a while, too. LN: Yes. JJ: ’Cause you’re talking about when it was a Puerto Rican community, and before that it was also an Italian and (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: Dude, that I didn’t know. Yeah, that -- the community was already established there. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) (laughs) LN: Yeah, that’s how -- the community was already established when we moved in. JJ: -- established when you were there. LN: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. JJ: So, since it was already established, it was more family. Is that what you’re saying, or? LN: Yeah, I mean, there was a lot of families on the block. You know? I mean, all the way from Halsted and Armitage all the way to Willow -- JJ: And [would you just describe?] (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: That’s where I remember the Calisto family lived. Willow and Orch-- Willow, and -- Halsted and Willow. And I think it even went further, I think when you got to North Avenue, then it started changing to the African American community. That’s more Cabrini-Green. 34 �JJ: Right. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: ’Cause you had all the projects down there. And then, but you had your African Americans right on Halsted as well. I remember a couple of families, guys that I went to school with at Newberry, you know, guys that went to school at Waller, then Lincoln Park. It was just all guys from the [00:45:00] neighborhood. But it was mostly Puerto Ricans on the block, and, you know, it was already established. It was already established, it wasn’t -- I don’t remember the transition from the other ethnic group to the Puerto Ricans. I do remember the Puerto Rican community then, you know, migrating west, or going back to Puerto Rico, wherever they went, and then the turnover to a different community. Was more white community. JJ: So there was a lot of that going on? During that -- while you were there? What year are you referring to? LN: Well, when I lived there, I was in high school, in the ’80s. JJ: Okay, the ’80, okay. LN: But it had already started to change. It had already started to change. The guys that -- I mean, I graduated from Newberry School, and then we went to Waller, Lincoln Park, and had already started to change, ’cause we had already -- we were still living on Halsted [00:46:00] and Armitage, but then in the 1980s, it started to change. I mean, I remember. But when I lived there on Halsted, it had already started to change. Now, I didn’t venture too far south on Halsted Street. Because, you know, our family was over here closer to Armitage. But there was still some people on the block. Puerto Rican families. But it did start to change. 35 �And then, when we moved over to Orchard and Willow, it was almost like, you know, after Marcano moved, I think we were probably one of the last few families to move out of there. And then it started -JJ: And this was the ’80s. LN: This was the ’80s, definitely the ’80s. Yeah. I remember we moved out [to 9th?] -- it was 1980, I graduated ’83? About ’84, ’85, ’84? Is when he eventually moved over to the homes over there. And he was there until he left. He said, you know, he’s [00:47:00] had enough, he’s gone, the winters are too brutal for him. Yeah, so that’s what I remember. The change. The change back in the mid-’80s. JJ: How did you take the change? LN: You know, I was living with my grandparents, so it’s... JJ: I mean, ’cause you grew up there, right? So you had to -- LN: Yeah, I mean, but, you know, it’s like, wherever the grandparents were going, that’s where I had to go. (laughs) You know? I mean, I didn’t -- I just had to follow where they were going. It didn’t affect me, I mean, had I wish we would’ve stayed there? Absolutely. You always wanna stay, especially if you’ve been there for years. But the community had already started to change, and it wasn’t the same thing. I mean, I would love to be able to go back in time, just for that, but as adults, and just to see how it would’ve turned out, had the community stayed with all the families there, and all the -- everybody who grew up in -[00:48:00] it would be ideal, but you know, that stuff doesn’t happen, only in movies, I think. You know? 36 �JJ: So you’re going to Waller High School during this change. How was Waller High School? You graduated from there, you said? So... LN: I did not. I graduated in ’83. What happened was, I went to Waller one year, and then it changed to Lincoln Park. And then my parents divorced -- JJ: What was that like? You know, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: To me, it was just a name change. It was a name change. I mean, the school was still the same. I remember reading an article about Waller being such a bad school, and it was so bad, you know, and I have an article at home, if you want it, I’ll make sure you get it. And the only reason I kept it is because, I remember, whoever wrote it, it was in the Tribune, I was in the paper -- JJ: That would be a good thing. LN: It was a black and white photo, I was coming out of class, and there was a photographer taking pictures and I just happened to be there. Then one of my friends -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) So you were in the-- (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: Yeah, one of my friends was flipping through the pages -- JJ: I definitely wanna see that. LN: And he’s like, “Hey!” And so he kept it, and he gave me the paper. [00:49:00] And so, there was an article about how bad Waller used to be, how one teacher got thrown out of a window or something, and there was always gang fights, and then, now it’s Lincoln Park, and, you know, it changed. Lincoln Park High School. And now the change. And I remember thinking, “How can a name 37 �change,” you know, “change the school so much?” You know? And eventually it did, because it’s a very -- it’s a tough school to get into now. Unless you (inaudible). But it’s -- man, oh, back then anybody could go there. But to me the change wasn’t that big of a deal, it was just Waller, and then I still saw the same students, I still saw the same teachers. Maybe eventually they got some, I don’t know, I didn’t see any big change, it was just a name change. JJ: You said before -- LN: Think it was a bad reputation, maybe. JJ: You said before that the community wasn’t really that gang type. LN: Yeah, but -- JJ: But now they’re reporting in newspapers saying that it was. LN: Well, because, no, I’m talking about Waller High School. [00:50:00] Now, remember, Waller is on -- it’s not that far from where we lived. We lived on Halsted and Armitage, to, you know -- I lived on Halsted and Wisconsin. So Halsted and Armitage, to Halsted and Wisconsin. My parents lived on Halsted and Wisconsin, my grandparents lived by the restaurant. So I remember that. Now, the school is not too far from there. So, you know -- JJ: Couple blocks. LN: Yeah, just a couple blocks. But, again, I don’t know if I just wanna believe that we had a protective layer around our block, I don’t remember anything like that. You know? Did it happen? It probably happened a block behind us. But not on the -- where I grew up in. JJ: But you didn’t see it. 38 �LN: I didn’t see it. No. I didn’t see it. And what I’m telling you about the school -- JJ: You didn’t see what the paper was describing. LN: Yeah. What I’m telling you about the school was that that’s what they reported. You know? And I don’t know whether they were talking about Cabrini-Green. I mean, listen, it’s a project, you know what projects are like, you know, you put a bunch of people in a building, what do you think they’re gonna do, you know? I mean, it’s just crazy. And -- JJ: And actually, they were bussing, but actually -- [00:51:00] not bussing, they were giving bus tickets to the people in Cabrini-Green to go to Waller. LN: Is that right? JJ: During that time. LN: Yeah? Wow. JJ: So those people didn’t even live in Waller, but they -- LN: I haven’t read the article in years, but I’m sure that that’s what they talk about, you know, about people coming into the neighborhood. Pero, you know, the stuff that I saw in high school when I went there, it’s not the stuff that I remember seeing on my block. Granted, guys did come by, we would play softball and stuff, but I don’t remember any of the -- and I think it had a lot to do, again, Marcano and Paulita, my grandparents, they were involved. I mean, they were involved in everything we did. They made sure -- I mean, I remember my abuela going to the school, and if there was something, issue, something going on in the community, Abuela was there. They knew Abuela, they knew Paulita Marcano, you know? And every time they would go -- I mean, we’re not saints, you know, 39 �we’d get into trouble at school or something, we didn’t do our homework, or my cousins [00:52:00] would get into a fight or something, Abuela was there. She was always there. And -JJ: (inaudible) Even though she wasn’t asked to man the PTA, she came in and -- LN: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. She was there. Oh, she was there. JJ: (laughs) (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: Absolutely, yeah. She was there all the time. And my grand-- and my mom -- JJ: [And the?] other parents? Were they doing that? LN: Other parents were there too, as well. Absolutely. JJ: So the parents were actively involved in the schools. LN: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. JJ: And with their kids. Is that what you’re saying? LN: Yes. They were -- my grandmother, my mom, were there. I remember other parents as well, too. Being there. And so, maybe it was because they were so involved, and I don’t know if maybe, you know, they would stand up to anything. I mean, as a parent, you would stand up to anybody trying to come into your neighborhood and messing around with your kids’ lives. I mean, I would do it, I’m sure you would too. And I think that’s what they did. And so maybe I was just -I’m thinking about this protective layer because Abuela was there, and parents were involved, and stuff. And maybe they knew, like, “Let’s not mess around in that neighborhood.” (laughs) You know? They didn’t walk around like community watchmen, or [00:53:00] neighborhoods, or anything. They were just 40 �there. They were always involved. And on the block on Halsted, I don’t remember any -- I mean, the competitions we would get into would be like, teams from the south sides of Halsted Street against the north side, playing a game at the clínica. (laughs) You know? The clínica, where there was bases painted on the floors, and then we had -- we would play fast pitching, or we would go to Newberry and play fast pitching against [DeWall?], and, you know, like, “Hey, our team will play your team!” And it was kinda like a mini competition. But it wasn’t ever about us fighting them or anything like that. Or even outsider gangs, or the Kings, or the Gents, or whatever coming over. I think, eventually, later -- but I don’t wanna say, because I didn’t experience it. I didn’t experience none of the gangs coming on Halsted Street. The article did mention about how bad Waller High School was. But I say that because that’s what I read. It’s not what I experienced. And, again, you got people coming in [00:54:00] from everywhere, you know. I could definitely see trouble at the high school. JJ: So why do you think the newspaper would (inaudible) say something like that? Just to sell papers, or? LN: Could be. It could be. (laughs) JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: I don’t know. I don’t know why the paper -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) said, I’m just saying (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: I’ll get you the copy, but, you know, I think that -- JJ: What do you think (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) 41 �LN: -- the paper did it because they wanted to document that it was a change, and the high school was changing. They said “cleaned it up”. Again, I only went there for two years, Waller one year, and then it became Lincoln Park -- JJ: And what year was that? LN: ’78. JJ: Seventy (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: ’78, ’79, ’79-80. And that’s when it was Lincoln Park. And then I moved to Puerto Rico. I graduated from a high school in Vieques, Puerto Rico. The little island off the coast of Puerto Rico. JJ: Little famous island. LN: Yeah, little famous island. Yeah. With all the US bombing we used to be, not anymore. But I went to high school there for two years. My parents separated, divorced, and I went with my mom. And, I did good, I mean, I spoke Spanish at home. My parents always spoke [00:55:00] Spanish. I speak fluent Spanish. And I adapted. It was tough getting used to, though. It’s a whole different world in Vieques. You know? From growing up in Chicago. And growing up in a big city. JJ: So how was that, going over there? How were you treated? LN: Oh my God, it was a culture shock. Culture shock. JJ: Culture shock? What do you mean? What do you mean? LN: Well, you know, here, you can hang out outside. You know? And you could over there, and you could do so many things, but Vieques, I mean, you think... It’s like going to the campo. And -- 42 �JJ: To the country, okay. LN: Putting you there, where, at seven o’clock at night, everybody’s in bed. This was back in the ’80s. And this is like -- (laughs) That’s how it was. I remember the first day that I got there, we were playing all day, I took a shower, and I put on jeans, and a t-shirt, and socks, and gym shoes. And I went outside, because my brother was outside, my younger brother, my stepbrother was outside. And they’re asking me, “Where are you [00:56:00] going?” And I’m like, “What do you mean, where I’m going? I’m not going anywhere.” He’s like, “Why do you got jeans on?” ’Cause everybody’s got on shorts, you know, chancletas, sandals, and a t-shirt. You know, t-shirts. And here, it looks like I’m going into town, just because I got a jeans and socks and a shirt on. JJ: And shoes. (laughs) LN: And shoes. And it’s like, “Well, where are you -- it’s a weekn-- It’s a school night, like, where are you going?” I’m like, “I’m not going anywhere!” “Well, why are you dressed like that?” I’m like, “How am I supposed to dress like?” You know? But everybody was in shorts, chancletas, ’cause everybody’s just chilling, a couple hours, and then going to bed, ’cause they gotta go to school the next day. And, I mean, we had two channels, three channels. We had channel 2, Telemundo, channel 4, WAPA, and channel 40, which was a cable channel that would come in because a US base was there, so we would get a feed, a very light feed. Three channels. And there’s not much else to do. You got, you know, two, three guys in the house, my parents, I mean, my mom and her husband, [00:57:00] they were sleeping early, ’cause they had to work. But there 43 �was nothing to do, I mean, there’s like, you had a park, but here, when I was in Chicago, you could go with your buddies, you could go here, you could go party here, you know, anywhere. But, you know, in Puerto Rico, it was weird. It was just something different, I mean, we had a small house, there was about six of us in the house. (laughs) It was just a total shock. I adapted well in school because I spoke the language. And of course, anybody who comes from the States to Puerto Rico, they call you Nuyorican. I wasn’t a Nuyorican, I was a Chicagorican. Because that’s where I came from. But because, you know, (Spanish)Gringo [00:57:42]. Because I spoke English, or they knew I came from the States. They knew I wasn’t from there. So, but, I mean, I only lived there for two years. I made great friends. This coming summer we’re having our 30th high school reunion, and, you know, they’re great [00:58:00] people, I mean, they -JJ: So you go there every year for the reunion, or? LN: I don’t go every year, I think the last one I went was for the 25th -- JJ: In Vieques (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: In Vieques, yeah. Vieques, yeah. It’s a nice little trip, yeah. JJ: [What?] was the school? [I mean?], was there only one school? LN: There was only one high school. There still is only one high school. (laughs) JJ: Do you remember the name? What’s the name of (inaudible)? LN: Germán Rieckehoff High School. JJ: Okay. 44 �LN: Well, you know what, I think that, but it’s the only high school, they have a junior high s-- JJ: [Germán Enrique?]? LN: Germán Rieckehoff. And I think, Germán Rieckehoff’s son used to be the president of the Puerto Rican Olympic Committee or something. But that’s -Germán Rieckehoff High School, that’s what I remember it being. It’s the only high school in Vieques. And there’s no college or university, you have to go to the mainland, you know, so. And then that’s the other thing, transportation, to get to Vieques you have to take a boat. Or a plane. Plane rides are -- they used to be, I remember, ten bucks. Back then, that was a lot of money. The boat was a dollar, or two dollars, that’s it. So everybody would take the boat. It was a lancha ride, which was a horrible hour-and-a-half ride, ’cause the boats back then were just crazy. JJ: (laughs) [Yeah, they [00:59:00] didn’t work right?]. LN: And then you have to be on the boat, you [can mareaba?], you get seasick. So it was going to a whole different world, man. I mean, you don’t have no TV, very -you can’t do much, there’s not much to do in Vieques, you know. (laughs) JJ: And this was what year? LN: This was 1982, ’83? JJ: And there was no TV or anything? LN: Well, we had a TV, and I think we had three channels, I don’t think we had -- JJ: Oh yeah, you had the three channels. 45 �LN: We had -- no, (inaudible) because they were local channels. I don’t know about cable or anything, you know. Plus we couldn’t afford it. (laughs) Not on my stepfather’s salary. JJ: But your family’s from there? He’s not from there (inaudible) -- LN: No, Mami is from Gurabo, but she’s got an older sister who married one of the pilots that flew from Vieques to Puerto Rico, who fly the planes. So her older sister married this guy, and he’s from Vieques, so when my mom went over there, you know, her only sibling there was her sister. So she went and lived with her sister for a while. And then Mami eventually bought the house down the street, [01:00:00] and that’s how Mami went to Vieques. And that’s where I went to high school, that’s where she was living at the time, so. JJ: So, yeah, ’cause they got the base, I saw that here, but the base (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: Mm-hmm. They have two bases, yeah. JJ: So did you interact with those people at all, from the base? LN: With the base people? JJ: Yeah. LN: Oh yeah, my stepfather was a security guard for the base. That was his job. And he would get us in there, you know, to go fishing, crab fishing, (Spanish) [01:00:26] -- JJ: But they had rivers, or something like that? LN: They don’t have rivers, they have little lagoons, and they have other -- he knew those spots, because he was a security guard, and he would roam the areas. 46 �And he would talk, he spoke English, he would talk to the Navy guys, you know, and they would tell him. Some of the guys, they treated him good. And they would tell him, “Oh, you gotta go here,” and, you know, he was a security guard. And so he knew all the spots, so he would get us in there, and we would go to the base. I mean, they had, like, I forget what [01:01:00] they call it, their nightclub or something, and they had, like, music there, and I remember they used to have free movie nights, and they would have this big projector, and then I think, I don’t know if it was once a week or every night, they had a different movie. And they would allow the residents of Vieques to go. The only time you cannot go in the base, I remember, in the two years that I was there, was when they had the maniobra, they had the practice sessions where they would do all the bombing on, you know, one end of the island. Which is interesting, too, because when I was there, I remember being outside of my mom’s house, and feeling the earth move. And I’m like, “Oh, what was that?” And my brother, sister, and my stepbrothers, they were like, “Those are just practice bombs.” I’m like, “Really?” And they would just, you know, the whole island would shake. At least, that was my experience when I was there. I’m like, “Wow!” You know, this -- and that’s when you were not allowed to go on the base because, I guess, security reasons. [01:02:00] You know, obviously, they’re practicing. And they would do their landings in the boats, and shooting, and practice bombings, or whatever. But yeah, we would go in there all the time. I remember the free movie nights, I think we had to bring our own popcorn or buy popcorn from 47 �inside, but the movies were free. You know. (laughs) And, so we, you know, my stepfather mostly interacted with the Navy guys. JJ: But you didn’t actually hear the bombs, it was... LN: I felt them. Yeah, I felt them. JJ: Why wouldn’t you hear them? Were they underground? LN: No, I think it’s because they were far. I mean, you know, Vieques is not a big island, so right in the middle is where the residents live. And I think the practice was way at one of the ends of the island of Vieques. JJ: At the beach? at the beach. LN: So I wouldn’t hear them. I would see the Navy ships, though. If you would go to one of the -- I don’t know if you’ve been to Vieques. Vieques has got some of the most beautiful beaches in the world. JJ: No, I’ve never been (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). LN: It’s really, really pretty. So you would be in Sumbay Beach, which was, we called it Sumbay, but it’s Sun Bay [01:03:00] Beach. Puerto Ricans be calling Sumbay. (laughter) And, you could see the big Navy ships way, way, way in the background. You would see them. You wouldn’t -- I didn’t ever saw them firing. I felt it, when I, like I said, I heard the dun, like, dun, I felt that, but I wouldn’t -- I never saw them, you know. JJ: Was this a regular thing, where you felt that? LN: Oh, yeah. Every time they did the practice, you know. Once -- it’s like living next to a train. I remember we lived here, next to a train a while, and you hear the loud noise initially, but then after a while you just become oblivious to it. 48 �JJ: You get used to it. Bom, bom -- LN: Yeah, and so -- JJ: Yeah. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: -- initially when I first heard the bombs -- Yeah, you know, I felt it, I’m like, “Wow.” And then after that, you would hear ’em, whenever they would practice. I forgot how frequent they would practice. But after that, I didn’t hear ’em anymore. Again, it’s like, probably I just got used to them. And that’s why I said I don’t know how often they would practice. But yeah, Vieques was definitely an [01:04:00] experience. Very beautiful island. My sister still lives there. She works for Vieques Air Link, she’s one of the receptionists. ’Cause she speaks perfect English, you know? And Spanish. JJ: Air Link, Airlines? LN: Vieques Air Link. JJ: Air Link, Air Link. Okay. LN: Yeah. L-I-N-K. JJ: So is that the airport, or something? LN: That’s the airline there. JJ: Airline. LN: They have several, but one of them, the guy who founded it, his name was Valdo. But he came up with the initials VAL, you know, Vieques Air Link, and those are his initials for his name, so, and, so my sister works there. She still lives there. So I go there every chance I get, I’ll go there. It’s a very beautiful island. But I can only handle two or three days of that tranquility. Beautiful. If 49 �you ever wanna go there and just not hear anything. And just sit by the beach, which is what I do. One or two days is good. (laughs) JJ: So today you don’t hear the bombs, is that what you’re saying, or? LN: Oh yeah, they stopped bombing years ago. I think they got the Navy out of there. I wanna say, I forget when, in the ’90s I think. ’90, ’91, or something like that. They had the big [01:05:00] protest, all those mass arrests, all the congressmen and politicians -- JJ: (inaudible) LN: Was it Clinton that got -- I think it was Clinton, right? JJ: I’m not sure (inaudible) LN: One of them, yeah. But it was -- JJ: But I think it was around 2000. LN: It was ninety-- Yeah, you know, that must be right. Yeah. JJ: That year. LN: Yeah, it was -- JJ: ’99 or 2000, something like that. LN: But it’s very -- you don’t hear none of that anymore, you know, you don’t. It’s just, you know, Google it and you’ll see some of the -- it’s really -- JJ: ’Cause you’ve been back afterwards. LN: Oh, yeah, plenty of times. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) place is more tranquil? LN: Oh, yeah. Every time I go, I -- we’ve gone for Christmas, and, you know, it’s 80 degrees out there, and my mom thinks it’s cold. 50 �JJ: And Christmas is the same as the rest of the Puerto Rico there, of course. LN: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I’ll go -- I wanna go -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: I wanna go to the beach, you know. I wanna go to the beach and just hang out. And my mom’s like, “It’s too cold!” I’m like, “Mom! I come from Chicago.” (laughter) “You know how cold it is in Chicago? I wanna go hang out at the beach! I don’t care if it’s 50 degrees! I’m going to the beach. I can’t come to Puerto Rico and not come to the beach.” And [01:06:00] Mami’s so protective, like, “Oh, no te vayas, stay here with the kids, watch the ocean, watch the waves.” You know, the beach is so beautiful, you can walk, literally, for about 100 feet and you will never go deeper than this here. And then the water’s so warm, to me, it is. And clear as day. Pretty, pretty. But, you know, my mom’s like, “Oh, don’t go out there!” But, you know, Puerto Rican women, to her, she’ll prepare me a lunch bag, like, you know, [jata?], she’ll boil the [jatas?], and do the bread, the whole thing. (Spanish) [01:06:31] She’ll make it for me. And then she wants to know what I want for dinner. (laughter) That night. Right after I had breakfast. You know? (laughter) And she’s always protective. But no, I gotta go to the beach, and just hang out. It’s so pretty, if you get a chance, go and visit. Stay for a couple days, stay as long as you want. Not much of a nightlife there, you know, if you want the nightlife you gotta go to San Juan, pero, Vieques is [01:07:00] very pretty, very quiet. It is a whole different world, and I think now that I’m older, I appreciate it. I’m like, “Man, you know, that’s not a bad little island to go to.” Not so when you’re a teenager, you know, born and raised in 51 �Chicago and you wanna go party and hang out with your boys all the time, you know. (laughter) But I grew up -- I thank my grandparents, I always will. And maybe some of the guys that I grew up with and their parents. They were all always involved in our lives. I have a bunch of friends that I grew up with who are Chicago police guys, detectives now, I have friends who are lawyers, I have friends who are doctors, all from the neighborhood. And that’s a rarity, I think. You know. Because we weren’t given much of a chance, I think, I mean, and even through life, I’m sure everybody’s faced their own discrimination to some extent. But could you imagine if we [01:08:00] would’ve been given an opportunity? If we would’ve been accepted more? I mean, I’m just giving you a sampling of the guys that I know. There’s those guys that went the other way, who never got that chance, for whatever reason. They got involved with other things. But the guys that I grew up with? Those guys are -- they’re like my brothers, they’re friends for life, and I think that, you know, my parents and my grandmother and my grandfather were always involved in our lives. That allowed us to continue to know that education was key. And you gotta stay in school, and all that stuff, you know. And the guys, again, I mean, you hear stories about guys, and you go to west side Chicago. Oh yeah, they can tell you how many of their friends have died through gang fight, through gun -JJ: You’re talking about, like, Humboldt Park and stuff like that. LN: No, I’m talk-- I mean west side, I mean -- JJ: And west side. 52 �LN: Even Humboldt Park, you know, west side or even further west, like getting closer to Austin. And you have kids, kids that are barely teenagers -- JJ: ’Cause they were the Puerto Ricans right now, or is that what you’re saying? LN: [01:09:00] No, yeah, most of them are there. But I’m just saying that, you know, the kids out there will tell you, “Hey, I have, I know five or six of my friends who are dead.” Because of gang fights or whatever. The guys that I grew up with, you know, none. I can’t -- I don’t know any one of my friends who were killed in some tragedy like that. The guys that I grew up with. We had a good upbringing in the neighborhood. You know? That whole community on Halsted Street was a good community. I mean, I can go on and on and on about the guys that I know, about what they did. Eventually, you know, some of those guys moved out west, and I think there’s a bigger -- there’s a lot of Puerto Ricans in Humboldt Park, you know that. We bought our building in Humboldt Park, you know. When we moved out of there, I think I lived in Logan Square for one year, and again, the rent was, like, crazy. I had started working already, so I could afford a bigger apartment, but then after a while, I’m like, you know, the rent -- that building got sold, to a Spanish guy, but he wanted to jack the rent up 150 bucks, I’m like, [01:10:00] “I can’t pay 950 for a two-bedroom apartment.” And I looked, and I’m like, “I could pay a mortgage for 100 more dollars.” So we bought a building in Humboldt Park, a three-flat. Which we still have to this day. Maybe it’s because I’m thinking, “I’m not selling!” (laughs) I’m not selling because I know what happened to Halsted Street, you know, when these guys had a house that they bought for 10,000, somebody came and offered them 100 and now 53 �they’re gone. Humboldt Park’s changing too. I mean, you could see it if you go there. When I moved in, then, it was a whole different neigh-- it wasn’t Halsted Street. Humboldt Park, when I lived there, when I bought it in 1992, ’93, was definitely, you know, a different world than from what I grew up in Halsted. You’re talking gangs that I would see. You could see the guy smoking weed on the street. You know. Humboldt Park was definitely a different world from the Hals-JJ: And what year was this? LN: This was ’90s. In the ’90s. JJ: In the ’90s. LN: Yeah. JJ: You know, they were similar to Halsted in the beginning. LN: Is that right? JJ: Yeah, [01:11:00] that was a change during that time. LN: Yeah. Well, (inaudible) JJ: That I recall. But I -- LN: No, no, no, and that’s good. JJ: That’s what you recall. LN: Exactly, I mean, that’s what I remember from my Halsted. My Halsted -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) you saw gangs, and (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: My Halsted Street, I didn’t see -- I mean, again, we saw some of that, but not on the block that I grew up. Humboldt Park, when I moved, that was -- I mean, there 54 �you saw it everywhere. Everywhere. I mean, you still see it today. Not as much, but you still s-JJ: So it wasn’t, like, really, like, a close-knit community, or anything. LN: I don’t think so. But I’m talking about, I had just moved into Humboldt Park. I knew that Puerto Ricans lived there... JJ: So how was it not? LN: Well, the block that I live in, and I tell people, it’s, like, probably one of the best kept secrets in Humboldt Park. It’s a dead end street, no pun intended, but it’s Thomas Street that butts up against an alley. It’s not a through street where you have cars driving in all the way all the time. You don’t have drive-bys on that block, you know. When I moved in, yeah, you had your guys that were, you know, you could tell who’s who, and who’s probably trouble, and who’s in a gang, [01:12:00] and who wasn’t. I fit in, ’cause I was Puerto Rican, and my wife’s Puerto Rican, and, you know, we lived on the block with a bunch of Puerto Ricans. And you saw families -- JJ: What is your wife’s name? Is that okay? LN: Flor. Flor Neris. JJ: Flor. LN: Yeah. JJ: (inaudible) (laughs) LN: Yeah, Flor Neris. And we lived on the block, and it was just her and I, and we had the building, and we rented the two apartments, and it helped us pay for the mortgage. 55 �JJ: And you have kids, too, or? LN: Now I have kids, yeah. JJ: What are their names? First names -- LN: Jeneli, Jaidelis, and Luis. Again, I gotta follow family tradition. My papi’s Angel -actually, Papi’s Angel Luis, I’m Angel Luis also. And my son is Luis Angel. I kinda changed it up a little bit. But yeah, I have the three kids now, pero, but Hal- Humboldt Park was different because you had, I didn’t know the families. I mean, I was already an adult. And then, you’re the new kid on the block, moving in. You know, you’ll make friends. I mean, I met Don Vicente from across the street, I met Eliot next door who works for the IRS. (laughs) Vicente’s wife works for the school, my buddy Leon down the [01:13:00] street is a retired police officer, his wife was a schoolteacher. So you met those people and you got good people on the block, and it’s a really good block. Some people rent, you know, and you have your Section 8 folks living in the neighborhood, and you have other people who don’t care much for what they rent, or maybe the owner doesn’t care as long as he’s getting his rent, who don’t live in the building. I don’t live in my building either. Listen, I don’t wanna say, “Hey,” I’m not gonna start throwing any stones. But I’m a little bit more picky when it comes to my tenants. I would rather have somebody who’s gonna pay me less, but have a good tenant, as opposed to jacking the rent up, where, you know, who knows who I’m gonna get just because I want 100 extra bucks. You know. I pass by my building all the time, it’s like I live there, so my tenants know. You know? And they’re good, the people on the block, they’re kinda watching out. I think it still needs time, you 56 �know, it still needs time. Humboldt Park is not that idyllic, great neighborhood [01:14:00] that you have -- I mean, listen, anywhere you go, you’re gonna get in trouble. Trouble can find you anywhere. Whether you live in Lincoln Park, whether you live in Wicker Park, whether you live in Humboldt Park, it’s gonna find you. The block that I live in? It’s different from Lincoln Park, it’s just that I didn’t grow up there, and although we’ve had the building 20-plus years, you know, I like to believe that it’s a nice little block. Not too far from Haddon, which is where one of the Calistos lives. (laughs) And then you have the other side of the park. And I haven’t gone to much of the other side of the park, ’cause I lived, you know, Kedzie and Thomas is where the building is at. JJ: You’re on Kedzie and Thomas? LN: Yeah. But, you know, it’s a great neighborhood. I loved it. The only reason I moved out was because of what I do. You know, I wanted the big house. I wanted the big backyard. I didn’t have a backyard in Humboldt Park, I had an alley. (laughs) And a two-car brick garage. I want my kids to [01:15:00] play outside, I want my kids to grow up in a nice, safe neighborhood. Again, anywhere it can find you, but the neighborhood where I live now, it’s kinda like that neighborhood where everybody watches you. It’s amazing. When I went to -- they had a meeting at the school up in Oriole Park in Chicago. How, there were some reports about gang recruiting at Oriole Park. Which is unheard of, it’s a neighborhood where you have just a bunch of professionals living. You know, it’s unheard of, gang recruiting. And they had a meeting, they sent a letter out to all the parents, and I went to this meeting. And it was just amazing, the number 57 �of people that came to that meeting. The parents in the neighborhood. It overflowed. It was just incredible. And I’m like, “Wow!” And this was when I had just first moved in the neighborhood. Had that happened, you know, back in the neighborhood, very few parents showed up. I know I remember the parents from my block being at the PTA meetings, or the [01:16:00] meeting with the police commander of the area, but over there, it’s because so many people were involved, and I’m like, “Wow!” This is good, it’s a good thing, you know? You’re getting involved with the neighborhood. It was good. And so, it’s a nice neighborhood. I mean, I’m giving my kids an opportunity, and it’s okay with me. Now, after they’re gone, I mean, I’d probably move back to Humboldt Park, I kinda like Humboldt Park, you know? There’s a difference between -- I’ll never forget the first night we lived in our house. I’m looking out the window, and my wife tells me, “What are you doing? Que te hace (Spanish) Puertorriqueno.” [01:16:34] [01:16:35] I’m like, “This is too quiet, it’s eerily quiet.” You know, in Humboldt Park, you look out the window, people, “Ay, (inaudible)!” They’re screaming and stuff, bom bom, you know? Neighborhood where I live is like, “This is crazy, it’s too quiet, man!” (laughter) Like, “No!” Anyway, it’s just a different neighborhood, you know? And then, maybe I’m coming full circle, coming to the neighborhood. ’Cause the neighborhood where we have, we don’t have parrandas. But [01:17:00] we have walks. (laughs) For Christmas. In the neighborhood, it’s crazy, it’s mostly an Anglo neighborhood. Very few Puerto Rican families. But we make coquito for Christmas. And the entire block wants it. They have street party -- street -- 58 �JJ: What’d you put in -- LN: Block parties. JJ: What’d you put in the juice? (laughter) LN: Hey -- JJ: [Mixed up?]. LN: Exacto. They have block parties. In the summer. It’s great, I mean, you have the entire neighborhood come out. They do stuff for the kids, they do a bike parade at 12:00, they got music, they got, you know, jumping things, they got, the pump is open, it’s, like, awesome. And my wife makes limber. And the kids, little Anglo kids, come over and they want more and more, Flor makes batches of ’em, and they absolutely love it. And, you know, when we had the Christmas walk, similar to our [01:18:00] parranda, they’re caroling here, but it’s just a couple of families, you know, about, almost half the block did it, and you get three houses. That one house, you know, you’re at the Johnsons’ house from 7:00 to 8:00. You’re at the Gonzalezes’ house from 8:00 till 9:00. And it’s just hors d’oeuvres, just hanging out, adults only. And they just walk, you know, from house to house. No music, but you’re just hanging out, and it’s kinda cool. We made the ponche coquito one year, and they absolutely loved it, so now every year, we gotta do it. You know. And they loved it. It’s our culture mixing with their culture, and it’s a good mesh. We get along, I love all my neighbors, absolutely. And it’s that neighborhood that I remember from when I was growing up, that maybe protective little block on Halsted Street. That, you know, probably my parents and my grandmother, or my grandparents, saw the trouble, but they kinda 59 �shielded it away from us, and now we’re in a neighborhood where it’s [01:19:00] kinda something similar, and anybody who’s suspicious that comes in the neighborhood, I mean, first of all, you’d have to be crazy, ’cause nothing but cops and firemen live up there. You know? (laughs) Does it happen? Absolutely. I tell you, trouble will find you anywhere. And, you know, it just -- today’s life, so. JJ: And, can you kind of, in general, describe the type of work that you do? You said fraud? -- LN: Yeah, I do investigative work for -- JJ: I mean, if it’s okay to describe, I don’t wanna (inaudible) LN: I’d just like to keep it general. (laughs) JJ: Yeah, just keep it general. LN: Yeah, just general. Yeah, we just investigate white-collar crime. Yeah, and, you know, it’s a good job. JJ: Like businesses, or? LN: Businesses, individuals, you know, you name it. Yeah. Pretty much, you know, it’s, today’s day and age, politicians, whatever. JJ: Okay, so there’s -- is there a lot more today or something? That became a business now, now that becomes a -- fraud is a business, or? LN: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I got job security for my -- JJ: I’m not trying to (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: No -- JJ: I’m not trying to (inaudible) I’m just trying to -- 60 �LN: No, I mean, [01:20:00] there’s some work out there to be done. I mean, again, it’s nothing new. It’s just that, you know, with the economy nowadays, people get a lot more creative. You know? (laughter) We just gotta keep up with technology. I mean, we got a lot of resources that are disposable, and it’s just, fraud is always gonna be around, you know. I mean, listen, we live in Chicago, I think, I don’t know if state of Illinois still has the title of the most corrupt state in the nation, you know, it’s just... I think it’s just that they get caught. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: Everybody does it, I think everybody does it -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) [couple going or something?] -- LN: (laughs) I think we have the state where people get caught. I mean, I think it happens everywhere, you know. So, but yeah, it’s an interesting line of work, something -- JJ: So you actually are investigating this kind of thing? LN: Not this thing, but fraud. (laughter) JJ: No, no, I just -- LN: No, you make it sound like -- no, I’m not investigating anything here. JJ: I mean the fraud, [I mean?] you’re investigating fraud, that’s what I mean. LN: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, mostly white-collar stuff, yeah. So anything to do with white-collar. (laughter) [01:21:00] I’d like to keep it at that, you know, so. And it’s interesting, though, and it’s interesting, though. JJ: Some final thoughts, what do you think we need to really stress about Marcano, like, your life -- 61 �LN: Yeah, you know what, again, you asked me for my Lincoln Park, and I gave you what I remember. I was just a kid there. You know. If, you know, you’re smart enough, you can figure this how you want it to go, and I think you’re on the right track. What I would like, though, is the stuff that Marcano left for me. Because he was a good man. He was. And he meant to do well. And he left the stuff for me... I have it, I’m glad I had the conversation with Freddy Calisto not too long ago, because we were [01:22:00] talking about it and I said, “Hey, I got a bunch of stuff at the house, man. You know? And it’s just sitting there.” And I couldn’t get rid of it, because Marcano left it for me. He specifically told me, “You (inaudible) I’m gonna leave this for you, ’cause I know,” you know, he left it to me for a reason. And I don’t know if maybe, just, fate that you... Freddy knew about what you were doing, and I had the stuff, and you know, we’re coming together. And I got the pictures at the house, I wanna make sure that you get, because I think his story needs to be told, and there’s no better story that you’re gonna get than from the tapes and the audios. ’Cause there’s audios here, of everything he did, you got a lot of work here, man. (laughs) You know? There’s a lot of -countless hours of tape, and you got música, he’s got everything in there. And I think this is probably something that’s gonna, you know, do your project good. And again, I -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) the best thing that we could do is to make it public for the (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: Absolutely, absolutely. And again, you know, listen, I -- 62 �JJ: For research -- other researchers, and other people that (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LN: Absolutely. If they ever need to [01:23:00] get in touch with me, you know, I’ll give you whatever I remember. If I can find stuff at home, some more, I, you know, I think it’s a -- when he passed away, I thought it was a shame that he didn’t -- it did not get played more here, in Chicago. Because he was a pillar here. He was a pillar of the community. You’ll see for yourself, when you see the tapes, if you get a chance to see the tapes, and see the pictures and stuff, the kinda stuff that he did. I mean, he got black and white photos, that I have at home, and I apologize I didn’t get them to you, but I’m gonna definitely make sure. I’m off today, so I’m gonna get home, start getting the pictures, putting ’em on a disc, and I’ll definitely make sure you get ’em, ’cause I think it’s important. This is perfect, this is perfect, what you’re doing. Especially, like, the Lincoln Park community, you know, it’s like. So that’s what I would like. I mean, you know, he’s the one that deserved the credit. I was just, you know, again, part of the Puerto Rican mom and dad that came here, looking for a [01:24:00] better life. JJ: Well, that’s important, so that it’s a, oral histories of different people, so. LN: Yeah, absolutely. JJ: And you’re familiar with that being, you know, going through the college scene and all that, so. LN: Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, he -- JJ: So you know what we’re doing, I mean, it’s clear what we’re trying to do. 63 �LN: Good. And I’m glad, I’m thankful for that, because it’s almost like a forgotten story. And I don’t know if anybody’s taken time to document it, you know, and obviously you’re doing it -- Marcano did, but he wasn’t around long enough to make sure that -- JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Way before that. LN: -- to make sure that -- JJ: Way before we even thought about documenting, he was doing it, so that’s really great. LN: Yeah, yeah, exactly. JJ: That’s what’s great about that. LN: That’s what I said, and it’s funny, I made that analogy about the wire thing. He made camellos for the Three Kings Day. He made a lechón, I remember he called it El Batey, the restaurant was called El Batey, and he made un lechón en una varita, and the pig was made out of wire and covered in some fabric that he colored brown to make it look like an actual pig, with an apple in its mouth, and, you know, [01:25:00] and the two sticks. I mean, it’s -- I think there’s a picture, at home, of the restaurant, you know. (laughs) He made the stuff, it was just crazy, just to think that I was driving the other day and I thought about the snowmen and the reindeers that are being made and being sold in stores. Stuff he was making (laughs) way back when. And documenting the stuff, you know? Documenting it. And I’m glad that I got an opportunity to meet you and that, you know, hopefully this -- JJ: Appreciate it. 64 �LN: -- will have some stuff for you guys that will help you get along in your project, man. I really do. I really do. JJ: I appreciate it. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. LN: No problem. Anytime. END OF VIDEO FILE 65 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5d4496b6234c5647994459293151e198.mp4 dacd1107d6455c29107f2001ac76368c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry Luis Neris vídeo entrevista y biografía Descripción Spanish language Description entry La historia oral de Luis Neris, entrevistado por Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez el 12/14/2012 acerca de los Young Lords en Lincoln Park. Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexicano-Americanos--Relatos personales Justicia social Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago Mexico-Americanos--Illinois--Chicago--Condiciones sociales Relaciones raciales Conflicto social Identitad cultural Partido Pantera Negra. Illinois Capí­tulo Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Neris_Luis Title A name given to the resource Luis Neris video interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Neris, Luis Description An account of the resource Oral history of Luis Neris, interviewed by Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez, on 12/14/2012 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jimenez, Jose, 1948- Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexican Americans--Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Mexican Americans--Illinois--Chicago--Social conditions Race relations Social conflict Cultural identity Black Panther Party. Illinois Chapter Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-12-14 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2a8826a4c8609d23a1dd0e8b371e027b.pdf 3c4687641f8307c1317744b8a2ba1374 PDF Text Text Staat: Koninkrijk der Nederlanden Gemeente • Municipality - Commune de Gemeinde - M unicipio de - Comune di • Îl, ilçe, mahalle veya köyü State : Kingdom of the Netherlands Etat: Royaume des Pays-Bas Staat: Königreich der Niederlande Estado: R ei.no de H olanda Stato: Reg,w dei Paesi Bassi Devlet: H ollanda K ralligi ..KAM PEN. ........ Nummer van de akte - Number of the deed N uméro de /'acte - Nummer der Urkunde N umero de la partida - N umero dell'atto Belgenin sayis1 .97.•.. Uittreksel uit de registers van de burgerlijke stand omtrent een geboorte Extract of the register of births Extrait des registres de l'état civil concernant une naissance Auszug aus dem Geburtsregister - Extracto del registro de nacimientos Estratto del registro delle nascite - Doguma ait nüfus kay1t sureti a. plaat s van geboorte place of birth - liett de naissance - Geburtsort- lugar de nacimie11to - luogo di ,iascita - dogum yeri Kampen- - b. datum van geboort e date of birth - date de ,iaissance - Geburtsdatum fecha de nacimiento - data di nascita - dogum tarihi 7-3- 1914 (7 maart 1914) c. geslacht van het kind sex of the cltild - sexe de /'enfant - Geschlecltt des K indes - sexo del ni,ïo - sesso del bambino çocugun cinsiyeti M. d. familienaam van het kind surname of the cltild - nom de fa mille de l' enfant Familietiname des K itides - apellido del ni,ïo cognome del bambino - çocugun soyad, Termaat-- e. voornamen van het kind cltristia11 names of the cltild - prétioms de l' enfant Vor,iamen des K fodes - nombres de pila del ni,ïo - nomi del bambino - çocuguti ad• Pieter- - f. familienaam van de vader s,1r1ia111e of the father - nom de familie du père Familienname des Vaters - apellido del padre cognome del padre - babasimn soyad, Termaat-- g. voornamen van de vader christian 1ia111es of the father - prétwms du père Vornamm des Vaters - nombres de pita del padre nomi del padre - babasmm ad, Cornelis Barend-- h. meisjesnaam van de moeder niaiden name of the mother - nom de jetme fi lle de la mère - Mädchemiame der Mutter - apellido de soltera de la niadre - cognome della ,nadre - a,iasinin evlenmeden önceki soyadi Harms - - i. voornamen v an de m oeder christian names of the mother - prénoms de la mère Vortiamen der M utter - nombres de pila de la madre - nomi della niadre - anasinin adi Hendrika-- Datum van afgifte, ondertekening en zegel van de bewaarder Date of issue, signature and seal of keeper - Date de délivrance , sig,iature et sceau du dépositaire - A usstellungsdatum, Unterschrift und Dienstsiegel des Register/ührers - Fecha de expedición, firnia y sello del depositMio - Data in cai é stato rilasciato l'atto, con firma e bollo dell'uf/icio - Verild·igi tarih, nüfus memurunun imzasi ve miihrü Kampen , 3 augustus 1978 . 1 t:g C 2--;--58, M1üi\1 44.10,00 7LX612 • _, .755 .232 �A Overeenkomst van Parijs van 27 september 1956 betreffende de afgifte van bepaalde uittreksels uit akten van de burgerlijke stand bestemd voor het buitenland Convention of Paris of 27 September 1956 relating to the issue of certain extracts of acts of the registers of births, deaths and marriages, to be sent abroad Convention de Paris du 27 septembre 1956 relative à la délivrance de certains extraits d'actes de l'état civil destinés à l'étranger Abkommen von Paris vom 27. Septe~ber 1956 über die Ausstellung von bestimmten Auszügen aus Zivilstandsregistern für das Ausland Convenio de Paris del 27 septiembre 1956 sobre la expedición de ciertos extractos de actas del estado civil destinados para el extranjero Convenzione di Parigi del 27 settembre 1956 sul rilascio degli certi atti di stato civile destinati per l'estero Yabanc1 memleketlerde kullarulmak üzere verilecek nüfus kayxt suretleri hakkmdaki 27 Eylül 1956 tarihli Paris sözle$mesi Uittreksel uit artikel 3 van de overeenkomst: De inlichtingen worden in Latijnse letters en de data in Arabische cijfers geschreven; de maanden worden aangeduid door een cijfer naar hun plaats in het jaar; indien de gevraagde inlichting niet in de akte voorkomt, wordt het vakje onbruikbaar gemaakt door strepen. De volgende tekens zullen worden gebruikt: a. om het geslacht aan te duiden : M = mannelijk; F = vrouwelijk; b. om de ontbinding of de nietigverklaring van het huwelijk aan te duiden: Dm = overlijden van de man; Df = overlijden van de vrouw; Div. = echtscheiding; A = nietigverklaring. Deze laatste tekens worden gevolgd door de datum van ontbinding of nietigverklaring. Excerpt from article 3 of the convention: The information is written in Latin letters and the dates in Arabian figures; the months are indicated by a figure corresponding to their place in the year; if the information asked for is not contained in the deed, the blank space is rendered unusable by means of lines. The following symbols will be used: a . /or indicating sex: M = male; F = female; b. /or indicating the dissolution or nullity of the marriage: Dm = decease of husband; Df = decease of wife; Div. = divorce; A = nullification of the marriage. These last symbols are followed by the date of dissolution or nullification. Extrait de l'article 3 de la convention: --f:es-renseignements à fourn.ir--son-1:--écrits en caraetères latins--et les--dat-es-en-ehiffres-arabes; les meis-sont repr-ésent-és par-un--- - chiffre d'après leur rang dans l'année. Si Ie renseignement demandé ne figure pas à l'acte, la case sera rendue inutilisable par des traits. Seront utilisés les sigues suivants: a. pour indiquer le sexe: M = sexe masculin: F = sexe féminin; b . pour indiquer la dissolution ou l'annulation du mariage: Dm = décès du mari; Df = décès de la femme; Div. = divorce ; A = annulation. Ces derniers signes sont suivis de la mention de la date de la dissolution ou de l'annulation. Auszug aus Artikel 3 des Abkommens: Die Eintragungen werden in lateinischen Buchstaben und die Daten in arabischen Ziffern geschrieben; die Monate werden durch eine Ziffer gemäss ihrer Stellung im Jahr bezeichnet; wenn die verlangte Auskunft im Register nicht vorkommt, wird das Fach mit einem wagrechten Strich unbrauchbar gemacht. Folgende Bezeichnungen sind zu verwenden: a. zut' Bezeichnung des Geschlechts: M = männlich; F = weiblich; b . zur Bezeichnung der Auflösung oder der Nichtigerklärung der Ehe: Dm= Ableben des Mannes; Df = Ableben der Ehegattin; Div. = Ehescheidung; A = Nichtigerklärung. Auf diese letzten Zeichen folgt das Datum der Auflösung oder der Nichtigerklärung. Extracto del articulo 3 del convenio: Las informaciones se escriben en letras latinas y las fechas en nûmeros árabes, siendo indicado los meses por un nûmero, segûn su órden en el aiio; si la información pedida no se encuentra en el acto se rayará la casilla. Las abreviaturas siguientes será n utilizadas: a. para indicar el sexo: M = masculino; F = femenino; b. para indicar la disolución o la anulación del matrimonio : Dm = fallecimiento del marido; Df = fallecimiento de la mujer: Div. = divorcio; A = anulación. Se aiiadirá a estas ûltimas la fecha de la disolución o anulación. Norma dell' articolo 3 della convenzione: Le indicazioni o enunciazioni sono scritte in caratteri italiani, le date in cifre arabiche; i mesi sono indicati in cifra corrispondente all'ordine del calendario. Quando non si potrà procurare un' indicazione, nello spazio rimasto in bianco si passano delle lineette. Si usano le seguenti abbreviazioni: a. M = sesso maschile; F = sesso femminile; b. matrimonio sciolto o annullato: Dm = morte del marito; Df = morte della moglie; Div. = divorzió; A = annullamento; gli ultimi segni sono seguiti della data in cui il matrimonio é stato sciolto. Sözlesmenin üçüncü maddesinin hüläsas1: Malumat Latin harfleriyle tarihler rakamlarla yaz1hr. Aylar sene içersindeki siralanna göre rakamla gösterilir. Istenilen malumat kütükte bulunmadigi takdirde buna mahsus yer çizgi ile iptäl edilir. Bu hususlarda kullarulacak ifaretler avagi.dadrr: a. cinsiyet göstermek için : M = erkek; F = kadm; b. evliligin hükümsüzlügünü veya iptalini göstermek için: Dm= kocanin ölümü; Df = karirun ölümü; Div. = bo!?anma; A = butlan. Bu i?aretlerden sonra hükümsüzlük veya iptal tanhlen yazilacaktir. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman) Termaat, Peter N. Description An account of the resource Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar. Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1869 - 2012 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144</a> Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945 World War, 1939-1945 World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands Dutch Dutch Americans Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text Image Type The nature or genre of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng nl Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144_Termaat_DOC_1914-03-07-Pieters-birth-certificate-408 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Netherlands Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-08-03 Title A name given to the resource Pieter Termaat birth certificate Description An account of the resource Birth certificate of Pieter N. Termaat. In Dutch, with translation in English, French, German, Spanish, Italian, and Turkish. Subject The topic of the resource Dutch Americans Birth certificates Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource nl eng fr de es it tr Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f17f9d5e11f358cd7687e88718a7942d.pdf 5187276d0d16c9fbda25b5899f4911a2 PDF Text Text ��A 19 ~erro:a"'" t-P.i et er-- v -- - ._\~ 021198 A 19 , N! 021198 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman) Termaat, Peter N. Description An account of the resource Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar. Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1869 - 2012 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144</a> Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945 World War, 1939-1945 World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands Dutch Dutch Americans Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text Image Type The nature or genre of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng nl Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144_Termaat_DOC_1941-PNT-NL-id-card Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Netherlands Department of Interior Affairs Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1941 Title A name given to the resource Pieter Termaat identification card Description An account of the resource National Identification Card (Persoonsbewijs) of Pieter N. Termaat of Alkmaar, Netherlands. In Dutch. Subject The topic of the resource Dutch Legal documents--Identification Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource nl Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0e57a9a7396f47cd86ce8cd3670e6a20.pdf 1e71f70cec17319ceac79fc262ef0195 PDF Text Text MINISTERIE VAN BUITENLANDSE ZAK EN Den Heer Pieter Terma.at. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is honoured to present a sroo:U momento in the form of an Erasmus medallion to the Allied War Veterans who are visiting the NetluJrlands in 1984 to commemorate the allied invasion of Europe and the fighting in the Netherlands forty years ago. Erasmus is believed to have been born in Rotterdam in 1466. The fanr:Jus phiwsopher ws renoi.med as tluJ most scholarly humanist of his time. The Erasmus University of Rotterdam is named after him. He was the author of many works and regularly wielded his pen in the service of peace. The Latin te:r:t on the reverse of tluJ medallion translates as follows: "Constancy is not aways to say the same thing, but always to persist in tluJ same thing". �MINISTERIE VAN BUITENLANDSE ZAKEN Mevrouw A.B.Termaat..Schuurman. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is honoured to present a small memento in the fo11m of an Erasmus medallion to the Allied War Veterans who are visiting the Netherlands in 1984 to aommemorate the allied invasion of Europe and the fighting in the Netherlands forty years ago. Erasmus is believed to have been born in Rotterdam in 1466. The famous philosopher was renozim.ed as the most saholarly hwnanist of his time. The Erasmus University of Rotterdam is named after him. He was the author of many works and regularly wielded his pen in the serviae of peaae. The Latin text on the reverse of the medallion translates as follows: "Constanay is not always to say the same thing 3 but always to persist in the same thing". �N3>t'</Z 3SONV1N3.lln8 NVJ\ 311:J31SINlll'J Aan den Heer en Mevrouw P. f ermaat � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman) Termaat, Peter N. Description An account of the resource Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar. Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1869 - 2012 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144</a> Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945 World War, 1939-1945 World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands Dutch Dutch Americans Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text Image Type The nature or genre of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng nl Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144_Termaat_AWD_NL-Foreign-Ministry-Erasmus-medallion Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Netherlands Ministry of Foreign Affairs Title A name given to the resource Erasmus Medallion letter Description An account of the resource Letters to Pieter and Adriana Termaat about the presentation of the Erasmus medallion to Allied War Veterans. Subject The topic of the resource Erasmus Prize Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1c5cce907329cf64ba68a88a0ef2f48c.pdf 6b8d201de7e4dcd7a619e7e434aa5a60 PDF Text Text 7371 • DE VOORZITTER VAN HET NATIONAAL COMITÉ VERZETSHERDENKINGSKRUIS Gelet op het Koninklijk Besluit van 29 december 1980, nummer 104, Staatsblad 715 , alsmede op de Beschikking van 29 maart 1981 van de Minister van Binnenlandse Zaken, de Minister van Defensie en de Staatssecretaris van Cultuur, Recreatie en Maatschappelijk Werk , kent toe HET VERZETSHERDENKINGSKRUIS aan ADRIANA BARBARA TERMAAT-SCHUURMAN 's-Gravenhage , J-9-1982 De Voorzitter voornoemd, DE SYM BOLI EK VAN HET VERZETSHERDENK lNG KJlUI In de vormgeving van het Verze tsherdenkingskruis is het verzet tegen de bezetters van het gr ndgebied van het Koninkrijk der Nederlanden tijdens de Tweede Wereld oorlog tot uitdrukking geb ra cht. De achte rgrond van dat verzet, in al zijn verscheidenheid, wordt weergegeven door de tekst in de horizontale balk - de tyranny verdryven - die is ontleend aa n het zesde couplet van het Wilhelmus. Het vlammende zwaard in de verticale balk verzinnebeeldt zowel de slagvaardigheid van het gewapend e verzet als het vuur van het geestelijke verzet. De kleuren van het aan het kruis v •rbo nden li nt symbo liseren de een heid van Nederland en het Huis van Oranje, temidden van de duisternis en de rouw, die de bezetters over de bevolking van het Koninkrijk deden neerdalen. W.Ch.J.M. van Lanschot, R.M.W.O. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman) Termaat, Peter N. Description An account of the resource Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar. Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1869 - 2012 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144</a> Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945 World War, 1939-1945 World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands Dutch Dutch Americans Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text Image Type The nature or genre of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng nl Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144_Termaat_AWD_1982-09-03-Adrianas-Resistance-Remembrance-Cross-certificate Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Netherlands National Resistance Memorial Cross Committee Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1982-09-03 Title A name given to the resource Resistance Memorial Cross, Adriana Termaat Description An account of the resource Netherlands Resistance Memorial Cross awarded to Adriana Barbara Termaat-Schuurman. In Dutch. Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands -- Awards Dutch Americans Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NKC/1.0/">No Known Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource nl Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2ea7b3878883ab8e282ae7e1f7984f6f.pdf 63e624c7bd62c8dd21444c8f4e325de4 PDF Text Text 7370 DE VOORZITTER VAN HET NATIONAAL COMITÉ VERZETSHERDENKINGSK.RUIS Gelet op het Koninklijk Besluit van 29 december 1980, nummer 104, Staatsblad 715, alsmede op de Beschikking van 29 maart 1981 van de Minister van Binnenlandse Zaken, de Minister van Defensie en de Staatssecretaris van Cultuur, Recreatie en Maatschappelijk Werk, kent toe HET VERZETSHERDENKINGSKRUIS aan PIETER TERMAAT 's-Gravenhage, 3-9-1982 De Voorzitter voornoemd, DE SYMBOLIEK VAN HET VERZETSHEROE KI G KRUI 1 cJ vormgeving van het Verzetsherdenkingskruis is het verzet tegen de bezetters van het ra nd gebied van het Koninkrijk der Nederlanden tijdens de Tweede Wereldoorlog tot uitdrukking ; bra ht. De achtergrond van dat verzet, in al zijn verscheidenheid, wordt weergegeven door de :kst in de horizontale balk - de tyranny verdryven - die is ontleend aan het zesde couplet van het lilh ' lmu s. Het vlammende zwaard in de verticale balk verzinnebeeldt zowel de slagvaardigheid 111 h ·t g wapende verzet als het vuur van het geestelijke verzet. De kleuren van het aan het kruis ; rbonden lint symboliseren de eenheid van Nederland en het Huis van Oranje, temidden van de ulsternis en de rouw, die de bezetters over de bevolking van het Koninkrijk deden neerdalen. W.Ch.J. M. van Lanschot, R.M.W.O. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman) Termaat, Peter N. Description An account of the resource Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar. Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1869 - 2012 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144</a> Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945 World War, 1939-1945 World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands Dutch Dutch Americans Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text Image Type The nature or genre of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng nl Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144_Termaat_AWD_1982-09-03-Pieters-Resistance-Remembrance-Cross-certificate Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Netherlands National Resistance Memorial Cross Committee Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1982-09-03 Title A name given to the resource Resistance Memorial Cross, Pieter Termaat Description An account of the resource Netherlands Resistance Memorial Cross awarded to Pieter Termaat. In Dutch. Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands -- Awards Dutch Americans Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NKC/1.0/">No Known Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource nl Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1fd19dbfc0f477203b736b90032fa4d9.pdf 951b4aa5b9ebf3a68a21c1aa095396f7 PDF Text Text Nationaal Comité Verzetsherdenkingskruis Datum : No.: 8 september 1982 Vhk/H/Ho/21. 931 Bijl.: Di: HEER P . T.uRMA T Secretariaat: 2585 JP 's-Gravenhage van Stolkweg 10 tel. 070 - _j45988 Bank: F. van Lanschot, Bankiers Lange Voorhout 32, 's-Gravenhage rek.nr. 22 58 62 298 1730 ' vE TLANE D~IVE N . E . PIDS hICHIGAN 49505 U. S . A. Hierbij ontvangt U de toekenningsbrief van het Verzetsherdenkingskruis. Ik maak U erop attent, dat het in het voornemen ligt om op 8 october 1982, in het kader van de 200 jaar diplomatieke betrekkingen tussen de Verenigde Staten en Nederland , in Washingt on D.C. een speciale bijeenkomst te houden waarin Verzetsherdenkingskruizen aan Nederlanders of ex-Nederlanders zullen wor den uitgereikt door Z.K.H. Prins Bernhard der Ned·e rlanden . Gaarne zou ik van U vernemen of U het Verzetsherd e nking skruis in deze bijeenkomst wenst te ontvangen. In dat geval zullen wij U tijdig op de hoogte stellen van nadere gegevens omtrent tijd en plaats. In afwachting van Uw bericht, Secretaris � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman) Termaat, Peter N. Description An account of the resource Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar. Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1869 - 2012 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144</a> Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945 World War, 1939-1945 World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands Dutch Dutch Americans Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Text Image Type The nature or genre of the resource application/pdf image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng nl Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-144_Termaat_AWD_1982-09-08-Letter-awarding-P-Termaat-Resistance-Remembrance-Cross-472 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Netherlands National Resistance Memorial Cross Committee Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1982-09-08 Title A name given to the resource Letter to Pieter Termaat from Resistance Memorial Cross Committee Description An account of the resource Letter to Pieter Termaat from Resistance Memorial Cross Committee, dated September 8, 1982. In Dutch Subject The topic of the resource Netherlands -- Awards Dutch Americans Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource nl Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/db1f8a95e07117f0984ee28f486b277a.mp4 f6584f68244e99565ae2981e320aab54 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/22d822fd5322ed2f7437b8ffa4ca12a1.pdf 4d425a54419a8580657d1520dd4646ca PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of Interview: Woodrow Neumann Name of War: World War II Length of Interview: (00:34:12) (00:15) Background Information • • • • • Woodrow was born in Flint, Michigan on July 8, 1918 He came from a German Catholic family with 9 brothers and 4 sisters Woodrow’s father worked as a machinist for Buick, but lost the house during the Depression and then his family moved to Mount Morris Woodrow went to Saint Mary’s Catholic School in Flint through 8th grade and then went to Mount Morris High School After high school Woodrow worked for about two years before being drafted in 1941 (4:40) Training • • • • • Woodrow was stationed in San Francisco for training and he found it to be very boring Woodrow wanted to get into more action and volunteered to be in the Air Corps He was transferred to Fort Bragg in North Carolina where he went through a lot of testing before training to be a paratrooper There was mostly infantry training; the men would jump into wooded areas out of C46s and C47s and get ready for combat after landing Woodrow graduated and received his paratrooper wings (9:30) Europe • • • • • • • • Woodrow was part of the 101st Airborne Division and sent to England They dropped in on France on D Day The trip across the Atlantic was nice, the weather was good and he did not get sick The men were stationed about 60 miles from London and worked for several months preparing for the drop They were allowed 2 breaks a week when they went into town and hung out in bars Woodrow thought all the people there were nice and enjoyed working with the British soldiers Things became more strict and the men trained more often as they got closer to D Day The men did not know when they were dropping until the night before �(15:00) France • • • • • • • • • • The men arrived at the airport at about 3 in the morning It was very dark as they flew over the channel and they could not see a thing The men were dropped 6 miles from shore before the beach troops landed The idea was for them to attack the enemy and push them towards shore toward the beach troops 25 men were dropped out of Woodrow’s plane and he was the sergeant on board Thousands of men were dropped out of the 101st, 82nd, and 17th [the 17th was not involved in the Normandy invasion] Airborne Divisions Woodrow could not see where he was landing and hit a hill badly, breaking his leg Woodrow was very scared because he could barely walk and was worried about being attacked He eventually hobbled along and found his men, who helped him make it out of the area and found a medic Woodrow was put on a ship and taken to England (22:14) Back to US • • • Woodrow had his leg set and bandaged in England; he was in the hospital for three days He got on a ship headed to the US and remained in another hospital after landing for a short amount of time Woodrow then went back to the paratroop school and became an instructor (27:05) Michigan • Woodrow took some time off and then began selling cars at Applegate Chevrolet in Flint for 18 years • He got married in 1947 and thought he did not want any kids because he would not want them to have to fight in any wars like he did • Woodrow later greatly regretted now having any children • He is now living at the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NeumannW Title A name given to the resource Neumann, Woodrow J., (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Neumann, Woodrow J. Description An account of the resource Woodrow Neumann was born in Flint, Michigan on July 8, 1918. He grew up in a large family of 14 children and went to a Catholic school. After graduating high school Woodrow worked for 2 years before being drafted. He went through basic training in San Francisco and then went to paratrooper school at Fort Brag in North Carolina. Woodrow was part of the group of men that dropped into France on D Day, but unfortunately broke his leg landing. Woodrow was transferred to a hospital in England and then sent back to the US. He then became an instructor at the paratrooper school. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-05-15 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/56dc68a1f4db8b4d5ee63dd0bc720700.jpg 5d73c2629677866c9a0b957c4d6c810a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard Platte Red Arrow Division collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Platte, Richard Description An account of the resource Collection of photographs and a scrapbook pertaining to the 126th Infantry, 32nd (Red Arrow) Division of the U.S. Army. Sgt. Richard "Dick" Platte, of Grand Rapids, Michigan, served in the U.S. Army, 32nd Infantry "Red Arrow" Division, 126th 3rd Battalion, Headquarters Company. The company trained for the war in Europe at Camp Livingston, Louisiana in 1941 and conducted maneuvers near Camp Beauregard. In the spring of 1942 the 32nd Division sailed to the South Pacific and settled in Australia. The 126th Regiment was organized into a combat team and was the first of U.S. forces dispatched to Port Moresby in New Guinea. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1941-1945 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Richard Platte Red Arrow Division collection (RHC-99) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource United States. Army United States. Army. Infantry Division, 32nd United States. Army. Infantry Regiment, 126th World War, 1939-1945 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-99 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image Text Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-99_Platte_003_1941-08-01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Newcomb Photo Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1941-08-01 Title A name given to the resource Portrait of Sgt. Richard "Dick" Platte in uniform, 1941 Description An account of the resource Hand-colored portrait of Sgt. Richard "Dick" Platte in uniform, by Newcomb. Front is inscribed "Newcomb Photo" and "All My Love, Dick" rear is inscribed "To My Darling whom I will never forget and stop loving. Aug 1, 1941 Camp Livingston, La." Subject The topic of the resource United States. Army World War, 1939-1945 United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/635">Richard Platte Red Arrow Division Collection, (RHC-99)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9a53f329361c05166258357516268adf.m4v 2a08dd3711ba6a2606272eded1fde397 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6d191842fbea16b5cfff48004ce38c17.pdf 7d7c13f5ba7b9a61462d1833e0363b87 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Peter Newman War in Afghanistan 2 hours 18 minutes 36 (00:00:18) Early Life -Born in Mount Prospect, Illinois on June 18, 1980 -Parents’ names were Jay and Barb -Both of his parents were teachers -His father was a secondary education teacher, and his mother was in early education -He had an older brother and a younger sister -Moved to Colon, Michigan and attended elementary school there -After elementary school he and his family moved to Sturgis, Michigan -Graduated from high school in Sturgis -Met his wife at the end of high school -Got married after attending college at Western Michigan University (00:01:54) Enlisting in the Army -There wasn’t any one point that made him want to enlist -He had talked to Army and Marine recruiters in his senior year of high school -Wound up getting enrolled in Western Michigan University’s Reserve Officer Training Corps -His grandfather had fought in World War II and his older brother was in the Army -He wanted the scholarship money and the experience of being in the Army -Also looked up to his brother and wanted to follow what he did (00:03:53) Reserve Officer Training Corps -Joined the Army ROTC in 1997 -First year of ROTC was introductory -One day a week for a couple hours being taught basic Army information -Protocol, decorum, ethics, map reading, and troop formations -Second year was more focused on tactics -Between first and second year went to Schofield Barracks, Hawaii for air assault training -The idea of ROTC was for it to be a slow progression of military knowledge -Before being commissioned had to go to “Summer Camp” -Leadership training course at Fort Lewis, Washington -It was basically an assessment of your knowledge of being an officer in the Army -ROTC physical training consisted of 3 days of it a week, starting in his third year -Joined the “Western Rangers” early on -Helped with physical and mental conditioning as well as further introductions to tactics -It served as preparation for going into the infantry -He had friends in both the ROTC and outside of it -While he was at WMU he visited his future-wife at Albion College -Each ROTC volunteer had his or her own reasons for joining -Some wanted the scholarship then would leave the ROTC -Some wanted to mark the ROTC as the beginning of a military career -Some of the volunteers washed out due to the physical training being too demanding �-His specialization became as a signal infantryman in his senior year of college -Start off knowing how to be an infantryman, and then move on to being a signal officer -Working with military communications (computers, radios, networks, etc.) (00:09:54) September 11 Attacks -He was in his senior year of college when 9/11 happened -He had already wanted to go into the infantry, so 9/11 didn’t change anything with that -He had been getting ready to go into a class when his sister called him -Told him to turn on the TV; he skipped his classes and watched the events unfold -The attacks only served to reinforce his desire to be in the Army -He knew that it changed what the nature of his service would be like -He already knew there was a good chance that he’d probably go somewhere he didn’t want to -Looking back, didn’t think that the majority of his career would be spent in the war (00:12:13) Graduation, Commission, and Infantry Officer Basic Training -Graduated from college in June 2002 -Allowed to finish his degree before going into the Army -He received his commission and became an officer on June 29, 2002 -In July 2002 he went down to Fort Benning, Georgia for infantry officer basic training -While he was waiting for the training to start he took some courses to prepare himself -Upon arriving in Georgia he had to adjust to the warmer weather -Went for a five mile run and thought he was going to have a heart attack -Remembers having to do 100 pull ups before getting a shower and dinner -Took him about a week to adjust to the heat and humidity -Part of the training was learning how to interact with noncommissioned officers (sergeants) -Essentially the goal was to see the Army as a profession -Another part of the training was advanced infantry tactics -Learning how to make good judgment calls as a leader -Spent a lot of time training in the field and living out of a rucksack -Enjoyed it because it felt like being a soldier and not like being a student -Also enjoyable because he enjoyed camping and being in nature -Some of the men training them were veterans from Operation Anaconda in Afghanistan -Told the trainees about what to expect were they deployed to Afghanistan -There wasn’t discussion about where they would be sent after training -Trained with a diverse group of men and women including international officers -They had a major from Egypt, a lieutenant from Turkey and a lieutenant from Greece -There was a lieutenant from the United Arab Emirates that he talked about Islam with -Realized that the Middle Easterners are humans too and not just a target -Helped greatly when he was deployed to Afghanistan and dealing with the culture -Showed him that, for the most part, the Middle East is full of people, not enemies -The training was focused on “force-on-force” training, not counter-insurgency training -Going up against an “enemy” force that closely resembled the Russians, or Iranians -The idea was preparation for a clearer cut war than fighting an insurgency -Throughout his training he always reminded himself that wherever he went, there were civilians -How he would feel about a war being fought in front of his family -Towards the end of this training there was a lot of talk about invading Iraq -Finished the infantry officer basic training in December 2002 �(00:24:30) Pre-10th Mountain Division Service -He was originally assigned to the 82nd Airborne Division -Went home for a short leave and got married during that time -Returned and went into the Ranger School, but did not complete it due to plantar fasciitis -He intended to return to Ranger School, but never did because of his deployments -As his feet healed he worked as a trainer for the 211th Infantry Battalion 11th Infantry Regiment -After his feet were healed he was sent to a signal school at Fort Gordon, Georgia -It was a ten week qualification course (00:28:09) Assignment to the 10th Mountain Division -He was attached to the 10th Signal Battalion and was made the executive officer for A Company -He became close with an officer named Doug Sloan who helped him get back in shape -Doug’s family lived with Peter’s family for about six months -The 10th Signal Battalion is a part of the 10th Mountain Division -The 10th was, and still is, the most deployed division in the Army -They always had troops on the ground in Afghanistan -After a few months the division was reorganized -He helped with the reorganization process -Moved equipment to new buildings, changed personnel, and updated equipment -Part of his job during this was to manage personnel and equipment -Keeping track of who had what, and who could be trusted with it -Stayed with the 10th Signal Battalion from late 2003 to mid-2004 -Spent a year as the executive officer of Charlie Signal Battalion of the 3rd Brigade (“Spartans”) -They had “sister” units deployed at this time and the division was getting ready to deploy -The reorganization was completed and he left C Signal Battalion in 2005 -Joined the 1/32nd Infantry Battalion (00:36:30) Being an Officer -Always took notes on what works and what doesn’t work as a leader -Learned from the good (what to do) officers and bad (what not to do) officers -He had some problems with the enlisted men (privates, specialists, corporals) and officers -Remembers one officer who commanded from a closed office -This meant that he basically had to assume responsibility for his unit -Dealt with the problems that enlisted men ran into -Bailing enlisted men out of jail -Remembers disciplining one by making him walk back to base -Dealing with DUIs, domestic disputes, assault (w/ deadly weapon and sexual) -Basically there were good soldiers, bad soldiers, and soldiers who made bad decisions -His job as an officer was always to make the Army look as professional as possible (00:41:04) Joining the 1/32nd Infantry Battalion of the 10th Mountain Division -In 2005 he became the S6 (communications) officer for B Company of the 1/32nd -He has identified the most with the 132nd Infantry Battalion -Wound up spending sixteen months in Afghanistan with them -Joined them in October 2005 and they were deployed in January 2006 -The 1/32nd was, and is, the most deployed battalion of the 10th Mountain Division -Saw action in Fallujah, Iraq; the Korengal Valley, Afghanistan -Also had a history of fighting in World War II and the Korean War -One of their own was a Medal of Honor recipient �-Received more training prior to being deployed -Received EIB (Expert Infantry Badge) training -Went to the National Training Center and the Joint Readiness Center -Also engaged in field exercises (00:45:23) Deployment to Afghanistan -They were deployed to Afghanistan in January 2006 -Families were allowed to come to the base to see them off -A major problem was that they were going to replace a nonexistent unit -This meant that they had to all of their equipment because there wasn’t any waiting -He had to get tactical satellite and high frequency radios -Necessary for communicating over the mountains in Afghanistan -He had to make a trip to Iraq to get more equipment once in Afghanistan -Flew over on a contracted flight to the Manas Air Base in Kyrgyzstan -From Manas took a C-17 into Bagram Airfield, Afghanistan -And from Bagram flew to Jalalabad, Afghanistan -On the way over stopped in Ireland, and then in Germany due to technical troubles -Not allowed to leave the hotel or to drink while in Germany (00:49:15) Conditions in Afghanistan -If you were stationed at Bagram there was relatively no real threat -It was basically a rest area and meant for soldiers to forget about the war for a while -The soldiers permanently stationed at Bagram were disconnected from reality though (00:51:24) Getting Established in Afghanistan -Managed to establish a radio network that worked out of the Pesh River Valley -Told that it would be impossible, but he and his unit accomplished it -He was able to get phone cards for the satellite phones so his soldiers could call home -Always wanted to make life a little less miserable for his soldiers -Even if it meant going up against higher ranking officers -They were stationed near the Afghanistan-Pakistan border -Their mission was to replace the 1st Marines and patrol an area the size of Vermont -Expected to do this with only six hundred men -Upon arriving had to repurchase and/or find equipment meant for Army use -They weren’t allowed to use the equipment left behind by the Marines -Over the course of a couple weeks was able to go around and collect equipment -Had to overhaul vehicles before using them -There were times where he would go days without sleep -Usually had to be forcibly sedated by a medic (00:58:30) Operation Mountain Lion -Operation Mountain Lion’s objective was to get a U.S. foothold in enemy territory -From there it would be easier to have a positive U.S. influence in the area -The plan was to push out the enemy then establish connections with the locals -The ultimatum to the locals was to keep the enemy out -If they did the U.S. would reward them with water, food, and money -Some of the communities were cooperative and others weren’t -Cooperative communities saw a threefold increase in average yearly income -In the cooperative communities they built schools, roads, and dug wells for them -The other communities began to cooperate seeing these improvements �-The bottom line was that if the locals were won over the insurgency would fail -By now the enemy wasn’t the Taliban but a mix of villagers, terrorists, and criminal groups -Mountain Lion was the largest operation in Afghanistan since Operation Anaconda -Multiple valleys were going to be attacked by the Army and the Marines -Pesh, Kunar, and Korengal Valleys -Mountain Lion was the first major push into that area -The first phase was to fly troops in in an air assault on the region -Once on the ground they could capture any persons of interest and start attacking -The second phase was moving in ground troops to flush out the remaining enemy forces -In the wake of the assault they were able to establish three combat outposts -Restrepo, Michigan, and California -There was some resistance and there were some casualties in the initial assault -Both increased after the outposts were established and the enemy forces returned -Took heavy casualties as the deployment continued through 2006 into 2007 (01:06:26) Meeting with the Afghans and Going on Patrols -They all knew that after a while they would have to go out on patrols and meet the locals -The problem is that they would go in, and then have to leave (eventually) -Once they left the enemy would return -The locals were more willing to help the enemy -Because the enemy would quickly resort to violence to extort the locals -Saw that Afghanistan is a beautiful country full of mountains, rivers and valleys -Unfortunately, there was a lot of ugliness in Afghanistan too that haunts him to this day -He had a lot of respect for the Afghan people -Got to know a mullah (Muslim religious scholar) and a trader -Saw that there were a lot of honest, hardworking people -Unfortunately, a lot of leaders were dishonest and corrupt -There was always an extreme risk in going out on patrols and meeting with the locals -As a result of the patrols 200 men were wounded, and twenty were killed -Some of the men lost had been close friends of his -Feels that if the strategy had been followed through the risk and loss would have been worth it -Instead, once they left it all began to implode and revert back to what it had been -He blames the implosion on the lack of continuity in units in the area -After a year a whole new group would have to come in and establish connections -Basically have to learn the culture and the individuals from scratch -There was a disconnect between winning the war on the national level and village level (01:19:20) Threats in Afghanistan -The enemy used anything and everything within reason against them -Suicide bombers, IEDs, Soviet weapons, mortars -Most of their casualties were due to IEDs -The terrain posed its own threat -He fell off a mountain. Twice. -There were dangerous animals in the area -Mountain lions, venomous scorpions, and venomous snakes -Several soldiers were evacuated due to scorpion stings -There were almost no laws pertaining to vehicle travel -On top of that some roads were so narrow that wheels hung off the edge of a cliff �-There were below-freezing temperatures -Being a light infantry unit they were poorly protected against IEDs -The enemy knew their patrol patterns and planted IEDs accordingly -Occasionally fuel trucks would be rigged to explode once they reached a base -Suicide bombers would bum rush a checkpoint then blow themselves up -IEDs were planted on cliffs so that when they exploded a vehicle would be thrown over the side -Constantly had to anticipate the threat of IEDs -Eventually got so good that they could head the threat off before it happened (01:24:29) Unit Cohesion and Strength -When going over as a unit you have a limited amount of personnel and equipment -Sometimes got additional personnel from the rear, but not often -The “reinforcements” they got were from wounded men coming back to fight -Most of the men in his unit wanted to do their part in the fight -Some men did not though, and he remembers having to court-martial one soldier -This man quit fighting in the middle of a firefight -Another soldier had to physically carry him out of the fight -Most of the men were willing to do their part, just for the sake of the person next to them -He attributes a lot of survivor’s guilt to that feeling of devotion -He still has guilt for sending out men on missions that they didn’t come back from -Or didn’t come back intact from (01:28:33) Daily Duties as an Officer -Requesting more supplies -Going out on patrols with the soldiers -Dealing with re-transmit teams that were in the field for ninety days at a time -Moving with the infantry and doing communications work with them -A lot of times the signal soldiers assumed the role of infantry, and vice versa (01:30:55) Re-Transmit Outposts -Re-transmit outposts were fairly well protected from enemy attacks -Stationary, relay stations manned by a few soldiers -The stations were watched over by U.S. and Afghan National Army soldiers -If the enemy attacked an outpost the retaliation would be swift and brutal -Usually fire everything available on them to send a clear message -Found at these outposts that if the enemy had to fight a conventional war they always lost -IEDs and other forms of indirect combat were basically useless (01:33:09) Working with the Afghan National Army (ANA) -The average ANA soldier was a good and honorable man -The leaders were former warlords and more selfish than the enlisted men -The regular soldiers were just fighting for a better life and for a better Afghanistan -He had the privilege of dealing with quality ANA units -The ANA had a different approach to combat situations -More inclined to charge in guns blazing without regard for their own safety -U.S. tried to teach them to soften a target with artillery and air strikes first -The ANA was a mix of Afghans from all over the country -Southerners were sent to the North and vice versa to help bond the country better -Some ANA soldiers would desert because they weren’t being paid for their service -Some men hadn’t been paid in over a year �(01:35:18) Deployment Extension -His unit was only supposed to be in Afghanistan for a year -He had been given two weeks of leave and got to go home and visit his family -At the end of their deployment their deployment was extended for an indefinite amount of time -They took casualties after the extension which caused bitterness -Feeling that the men killed or wounded shouldn’t have even been in the country -The extension caused a massive drop in the unit’s morale -As a leader he had to put on a good face and urge the other soldiers to keep pressing on -They were supposed to have gotten rotated to a rear area for a break -His unit was never allowed that because they were considered to be too essential -Soldiers, for the most part, understood and accepted it -Some men were rotated back to avoid total psychological breaks though (01:40:36) Emotional Impact of First Deployment -There are still memories that he keeps down and hasn’t talked about since -Things that he may never share -Things that he saw that make you lose a little faith in humanity -The things that bothered him the most were the things done to animals and to children -They had to routinely go out and kill dogs because they carried dangerous diseases -Bad for morale because of the emotional connection Americans have with dogs -Learned that donkeys can scream -Seeing what happened to children, and what that did to their families -Losing soldiers also had a huge toll on him -He lost his best friend, Doug Sloan, to an IED on October 31, 2006 -It has always made Halloween a difficult holiday for him -All of his friends that were killed, were killed by IEDs -One of his jobs was counter-IED work, so he has always felt responsible -In the years after his first deployment he has gone to therapy to cope with the grief -He recognized that he was changed in a profound way upon coming home -His wife eventually told him that either he got therapy, or she left -Able to deal with the loss of his friends now -He made some close friends while in Afghanistan that he still talks to today -That first deployment showed him the best, and worst, that humanity has to offer (01:45:55) Coming Home & Joining the National Guard -When he returned from his deployment he planned on getting out of the military -Got a job at Target and didn’t feel like he was making any difference in life -Found it impossible to go from making life or death decisions, to that -Wanted to go back to the military to be able to make a positive impact in the world -The end of the deployment to Afghanistan was June 2007 -Returned to the U.S. and signed up for the National Guard -He became the commander for the forward support company of the 507th Engineers Battalion -Planned on spending only one year in the National Guard, and part time -In the meantime got a job at Target -Didn’t make him happy, but they were at least good people to work for -He taught ROTC courses in 2008 before going full time in the National Guard in April 2009 -Started off working as both a commander and in a staff position in the National Guard -Helped build up the 507th Engineers Battalion from scratch �-The 507th specializes in construction, bomb disposal, firefighting, sapping, and field support (01:51:54) Second Deployment to Afghanistan Pt. 1 -When deployed for a second time his battalion was in charge of route clearance -Left the States in May 2012 and returned in March 2013 -Operated in the southern/southwestern part of Afghanistan -It was a tougher deployment because of the mission, and leaving his two year old son -The separation was a little less difficult thanks to broader internet and cell communication -Able to contact his wife and son with his iPhone at night -He became part of a Joint Staff in RC West working with the Italians, Spanish, and Lithuanians -Having constant communication with home made the deployment a little easier -Never got shot at and never felt in danger during his second deployment -Still went out on patrols occasionally to check in with his soldiers and to meet the locals -It was also not as difficult of a deployment because it wasn’t a full year deployment (01:56:17) End of Second Deployment -They accomplished their mission, but didn’t feel that the overarching mission was accomplished -It was disheartening to see that Afghanistan was not going to be a functioning state -Attributes a lot of that simply to the massive amount of disconnect with modernity -Some tribal people thought that they were Soviet troops at first and were scared -Had to convince and show them that they were American soldiers -Noticed that as the resources and personnel were pulled out the American influence collapsed -Enemy forces began to move back in and overwhelm Afghan forces (02:00:13) Second Deployment to Afghanistan Pt. 2 -Knew there was widespread corruption during the second deployment and had to deal with it -Demoralizing because he knew the average Afghan didn’t want that corruption -Some routes just had to be abandoned, and as a result some forward operating bases were too -The second deployment was much more coalition focused, than American focused -ANA and Afghan police started trying to kill coalition troops during his second deployment -Attributes that to a possible breakdown of respect between the two groups -Most of the second deployment consisted of planning and resource management -This meant that he could stay at battalion headquarters and not be in the field -He wasn’t able to go out with his soldiers as much as during the first deployment -Still made sure to go out and meet with his troops and the locals occasionally -Didn’t like being behind a desk, but realized that was the reality of higher rank (02:04:53) Working with Europeans on Second Deployment -He learned some Italian, some Spanish, and some Lithuanian -He learned that Americans have a different way of approaching tasks than Europeans -The Spanish and Italians were more focused on the process of a task -Americans are more focused on the results, and not how it was accomplished -During his first tour he had served with British and Australian forces -More Americanized than they would like to admit -Very similar to Americans in terms of being results, not process, oriented -The Lithuanians were Americanized as well -Had the same personalities and the same sense of humor (02:07:40) Coming Home from Second Deployment -He and his unit left Afghanistan in March 2013 -From Afghanistan flew to Texas and processed out there �-Given one week of medical examinations and paperwork to fill out -Checking for unknown injuries, diseases, and any psychological problems -Making sure that finances were in order so troops would get paid -Flew back to Michigan for the welcome home ceremony there -The processing in Texas was good for soldiers to decompress and readjust to being home -Saw that the welcome home ceremony was more for high ranking officers and politicians -Soldiers didn’t really care about the formality; they just wanted to see their families -It was basically a display for the military to be able to show troops were coming home -Return from first deployment hadn’t been quite as formal -Lower ranking officers didn’t care about formality -They just wanted to see their families too -As he moves up in the ranks he wants to work to compress the formality of it all -Feels that the soldiers of the 507th were cheated out of an experience by not getting leave -Because the deployment was so short they were not granted a leave home -Denied the chance for soldiers to see the appreciation of strangers for their work -Feels that not getting those interactions was demoralizing for troops (02:16:00) Reflections on the National Guard -Feels that National Guard troops, as a whole, are more mature -This is not a critique of Army regulars, but Guardsmen are usually older, experienced -Most likely have families; most likely have a civilian job outside of the Guard -Army regulars are younger and haven’t experienced “life” yet -Saw that National Guard troops are more self-sufficient which engenders responsibility -Saw that Guard troops are a little more career oriented and thus strive for professionalism � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_NewmanP1671V Title A name given to the resource Newman, Peter (Interview outline and video), 2014 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-09-27 Description An account of the resource Peter Newman is a major in the Michigan National Guard and a veteran of the War in Afghanistan. He was born in Mount Prospect, Illinois, in 1980 and grew up in Michigan. He took ROTC training in college and was commissioned in the Army in 2002. He trained as an infantry officer at Fort Benning, Georgia for infantry officer basic training and then served with 82nd Airborne Division, the 11th Infantry Regiment, the 10th Signal Battalion of the 10th Mountain Division and finally the 1/32nd Infantry Battalion of the 10th Mountain Division as the S6 (communications) officer for Bravo Company. In January 2006 the 1/32nd Infantry Battalion was deployed to Afghanistan. They operated in the Jalalabad area and took part in Operation Mountain Lion establishing the combat outposts of Restrepo, Michigan, and California. After a sixteen month tour he and his unit returned home in June 2007. Left the service briefly, then joined the Michigan National Guard. He taught ROTC courses before going full time in the Guard in April 2009. He helped build the 507th Engineers Battalion from scratch and deployed with them to Afghanistan in May 2012 operating in the south/southwestern portion of the country. In March 2013 the 507th returned home. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Newman, Peter Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American United States. Army United States. National Guard Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/x-m4v application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d32d7e8b85c55e5744f532e2078c6400.mp4 f4d3f7abf6d394cda078942f01f639b4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2f3f19fe2daa932285eabc1b0c6252b8.pdf b9f0f61327b1246453e21a3ef9d7b72a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam War Tim Newman 2:02:52 Introduction (00:21)       Tim was born in Buffalo, New York on February 25, 1948, in the lower east side of the city. His family lived in a two room apartment until his father moved them into a two family house which gave the family three bedrooms. He went through a Catholic grade school, and then attended a public high school. This was a culture shock for him because it was the first time that he mingled with inner-city kids. The high school was Emerson Vocational High School. There he took up drafting and tool design, with the ambition of opening his own drafting shop and own his own business. He also wanted to be a professional basketball player but two things held him back: talent and height. Along with playing basketball, he also ran cross-country and track. (1:56) After high school, he went to a business school, but with two months to go until graduation, he was drafted. Since it was not an accredited school, he did not qualify for a student deferment. At that point, Tim did not know much about Vietnam, he paid more attention to sports. Basic Training (3:42)        He reported in on October 6, 1969. He was twenty years old. After getting his draft notice, he reported to the draft board and they were given their physical. At the time, many people were trying to get out of the service. Tim‟s father was a Marine in the South Pacific, his grandfather and his great-grandfather were also in the service. He felt that it was his duty to serve. (5:50) He reported to Fort Dix, New Jersey and again got another culture shock about being yelled and screamed at before he even got off the bus. From Buffalo to New Jersey, they were flown, and then took a series of busses to the base. Upon arrival, they were still in their civilian clothes, they took everything and shipped it home and were then issued their uniforms, given another physical and paperwork. (7:40) Basic training was the best thing that ever happened to Tim, because he was broken down and then built back up and made him see what he could do and accomplish. He was trained to react and make decisions. The training was good and tough. When in basic, he had to crawl through mud, shoot a rifle, throw grenades and taught you military life. Later, he was given the chance to fill out applications about where he would be best suited job wise, he chose typing and computers. (10:20) He failed the typing test, so he stayed where he was. �      His confidence grew so much, as well as his trust in his fellow soldiers. Even though he thought much of his basic training was stupid, he would come to see the wisdom in the program. He got up at 3am, had to “shit, shower and shave” in fifteen minutes. (12:01) At 3:30 am they were standing on the PT (physical training) field waiting to exercise. Their drill sergeant was an animal, he could do one handed push-ups without even bothering him. They also did push-ups, sit-ups and ran. Tim went into the service weighing 128 pounds and left weighing 170. (13:09) Most of the men with him were 18 or 19, some of them enlisted, while others were drafted. Meeting all the different people was another culture shock; such as men from the west coast who were really laid back, the rednecks from the south, the blacks from the south who did not get along with the rednecks, then the men from the north such as New York and Michigan. (15:08) They had one guy that was just like the comic strip character Sad Sack, his nickname was Scooter, and he always screwed up everything that he did. When they graduated, everyone had their gear and pack on for their final parade ceremony and Scooter's pack and poncho unraveled and dragged behind him like a tail. Tim said he has many good memories of basic training such as that. Knowing that he would benefit from the training in the long run, he went with and made the best of it. (17:15) Advanced Training (17:18)        After basic, Tim was sent to Fort Lewis, Washington for his advanced training. There, they were not yelled at and were treated with more respect. They were also given weekend leave; they often traveled to Seattle, Portland and British Columbia. Even though British Columbia was off limits because it was in Canada, they snuck there on occasion to sight see. On base, different religious denominations would take soldiers into their homes for the weekend which did not count as leave. While there they would get good home cooked meals and a comfortable bed to sleep in. The family that took him had seven daughters that aged from two to twelve. (19:17) At advanced training, he was assigned to the infantry. There he learned more about shooting, field work, such as camping and survival training, and learned about more than just the M-16, but also pistols, machine guns and grenade launchers. (21:45) Fort Lewis was set up for World War II, not Vietnam. Much of their training was in a classroom setting. Their training lacked the realistic elements of jungle warfare or urban village training. (23:47) Vietnam was a war without boundaries, nothing was off limits, and they were taught to expect constant movement and how the enemy was thinking at the time. (26:38) Tim finished AIT (Advanced Infantry Training) in January. He was then given a two week leave to go home. He had already been given orders to Vietnam. 90% of the men with him in AIT went to Vietnam. His parents took him to the airport and no one was talking when suddenly on the radio “I‟m Leaving on a Jet Plane” started playing. (28:03) � From the airport, he was sent to Fort Ord for processing over to Vietnam. Within 24 hours of arrival you‟re already shipped out; Tim remembers being assigned a bunk, but he never was given a chance to sleep in it. Vietnam (29:03)                The tour started the minute you got on the plane, so Day 1 was spent flying overseas. The stewardesses started out being nice and good looking, but when you were half way there they were middle aged, and when you got to Vietnam you got the old ones. They stopped at Hawaii for an hour layover, which was uneventful because the airport was closed and it was night time. (29:38) Tim remembers the first thing to hit him once he got off the plane in Vietnam was the heat and humidity. Their plane landed in Phu Bai. Once he arrived, they again went through processing which included more paper work, and some training. The plane landed during the day under military escort Phantoms. Some of the training that they got at this time was what they would encounter in country as far as diseases, insects, and how to perform field hygiene. (31:15) All men were assigned their units while at Phu Bai, Tim was one of four that was picked for the 101st Airborne Division. He was then put on a C-47 and taken to his unit at Camp Evans. (33:00) Tim was assigned to the 101st Airborne, 2nd Battalion, 506th Regiment. He did not see them until he went out into the field. To reduce his rucksack weight from 90 pounds to 50 pounds, he removed underwear, socks, books and other miscellaneous items that he would not need. He was told to bring a toothbrush, one pair of socks, no underwear, ammunition, rifle, two bandoliers and hand grenades. When he finally made it to the field, they landed in a hot LZ (landing zone) and he was fired upon. (35:19) His unit was in the mountains and hills, and he was assigned to Alpha Company, he was taken in by a group of men who were also from New York, they called themselves the Yankees. (37:45) After landing under fire, the firefight went on for about another half hour. Tim laid low until it died down, because he did not know what to do or what was going on. They told him “to listen, respect his surroundings, respect your enemy and hopefully you‟ll make it through” (39:38) When Tim‟s company got a new CO, Hawkins, he said he would follow that man to Hell and back. He had a great amount of respect for him. His first field time was two weeks, and it was always wet, and rained constantly. They always kept an extra pair of socks to keep their feet dry. (41:57) During his first field experience, they had one enemy contact. They were hit at night, and their Lieutenant gave the order “on line charge”, Tim was the assistant machine gunner for a man named Tiny, who was 6‟6”, 250 lbs who manned an M-60. (43:26) They had a couple of guys who got wounded, so Tim had to get the wounded out and picked them up with a poncho, and had to haul them uphill and one click away at night. The man he was carrying had a leg wound, and he was given morphine and every time they bumped something he would scream and swear in pain. Tim later found out that that man died on the helicopter from shock and loss of blood. (45:58) �   After that, they were brought back into the rear for a couple of day‟s stand-down, and while in the rear they had their weapons taken away and locked up in a locker. Most of the attacks on the rear base were mostly mortar rounds landing in the base. Camp Evans was a big base that had the 101st, two helicopter squadrons, the motor pool, a PX and many other things. (47:50) Some of the men would smoke drugs while in the rear, but never in the field. They would also drink, and experienced racial tensions between the whites and blacks. Tension also existed between the rear personnel and the field soldiers. (49:50) Ripcord (50:38)               They always traveled around their AO (Area of Operation) in helicopters, and when they were not at a firebase at night, they would pull guard duty that started around 6 or 7 pm and each watch would last two hours. Tim always liked to do the first or last watch because they got the most uninterrupted sleep. (52:44) At night the platoon would dig trenches or foxholes if needed, and set up their hooch‟s to sleep in. All they had to eat was C-rations, which came in a case of 24 meals that each man would carry in his rucksack, along with their water, ammunition and other things they would require. (54:39) Each man in the platoon would often carry extra ammo for the M-60 gunner, which they happily did. Great lengths were taken to keep their ammo clean and dry, especially the M-60 ammo. During the summer, Tim would carry between 10-12 quarts of water. One water bladder would hold 5 quarts, 2- 2quart containers, and 2- 1 quart containers that totaled around 12. The water alone would weigh twenty pounds. (56:39) Average rucksack weight was 50-60 lbs. While they set up Firebase Ripcord, Tim worked a lot of guard duty, and worked one week on, one week off. Tim did not know the significance of the area or of Ripcord at the time. (58:53) When Tim first joined the unit, the platoon leader was on his way out and the new one was Pahissa, he was killed at Ripcord. His platoon [company?] had 60-65 men and his squad size was 10-12. They were under strength for most of the time, with sizes getting smaller as Ripcord went on. (1:01:04) Tim was in the Ripcord area in late spring, March, April, May and June 1970, he was moving in the hills around Ripcord, and would periodically rotate onto the base at Ripcord. Being on the base was eerie. Time on the base was boring, because they had nothing to do except pull guard duty and relieve the other men on watch. (1:03:05) It was uneventful on the base, except when mortars came in from the VC. They would also patrol 100-200 meters outside the wire to do security and search for weapons and such. Between March and July 22, they had experienced 32 firefights. Some major, some minor. They found lots of spider holes while on patrol in the hills. Hawkins was the new company commander that came from Delta Company. At first, Tim was scared of him. (1:06:10) �                Tim describes Hawkins as like John Wayne, but he tried not to put his men into a position where they couldn‟t win, but Tim thought he was a soldier‟s soldier. He has a high amount of respect for him. He was able to perform five different things at once and not falter at any of them. Hawkins respected his men and got their respect in return. (1:09:19) Once the entire battalion was called back to Camp Evans, each man was given new fatigues, boots, web gear, a fresh haircut, took a shower and stood in formation while General Abrams flew over in a helicopter. Afterwards, they had to turn in all their new equipment and were back in the field. Bombardment of Ripcord intensified on July 1st. During that time, Tim‟s company was doing a lot of recon. Their Kit Carson Scout found a phone line along the trail and they tapped into it and were listening to the enemy talking back and forth. He found out that they knew about them, what they were doing, and where they were. (1:12:05) On the radio, the scout also learned that the NVA had two battalions ready to attack Ripcord. After moving out of the area that night, Tim said that they could smell the NVA, they were that close. (1:14:52) The platoon was supposed to be extracted at 1pm the following afternoon, but they were attacked, and the battle lasted over six hours. Their position was overrun, so the company commander, Hawkins, called in a 250 lb. bomb to be dropped on their location. (1:16:14) At this point, Tim was a rifleman. (1:17:44) After the bomb hit, the enemy started to retreat, and Tim and his platoon began to form a line. The casualties for the battle were 14 dead, 56 wounded and 6 that were unscathed. Out of the 56 wounded, 14 could still fire their weapon. (1:19:44) Once the perimeter was made, Hawkins had to leave the seriously wounded outside the perimeter because they could not spread out enough to cover them all. The moans and cries of the men left out there was horrible for the men inside. Gunships and flare-ships stayed on scene all night, which kept them all alive. During the night, the men thought they would be overrun, but they found out years later that they had killed all the enemy leaders and the NVA were so scattered that they could not mobilize another attack. (1:21:57) That day they were attacked by an entire battalion of NVA regulars against 76 American soldiers. Delta Company was supposed to come in that night to relieve Alpha Company, but due to fire on the LZ, they were forced to wait till morning. They left at 6am and took 45 minutes to make it within a mile of their perimeter. (1:23:14) Delta then came under fire, and was forced to leave their rear squad behind and hurried to Alpha. The point man for Delta could not believe the amount of dead bodies and carnage that they saw. Tim had to retrieve the bodies of those left outside the perimeter and bring them to the helicopters. Hawkins was the last man off the battlefield and Tim credits his actions that day for keeping as many alive as there was. (1:25:16) �      When they were extracted they were sent to the rear at Eagle Beach for a week of stand down. While there, they had a memorial for the 14 men killed. Tim remembers that after the memorial service, everyone stayed in their barracks for two days. (1:27:09) Twenty men in the company were left still able to perform their duty; those men were divided into other companies. Tim was reassigned as the company RTO for 1st Platoon, 1st Squad. They were also resupplied with gear and equipment and also a fresh company of soldiers. All of the new officers were fresh out of West Point and had no combat experience. (1:29:24) Towards the end of the war, the men were placed in positions where they wouldn‟t be hit. The last six months of Tim‟s tour they were only hit once or twice. Tim left the field in January, and left country in July. Winding Down (1:30:56)             To entertain the troops, they had a tent that they could watch movies, a bar and a steamy cream (a place for the men to have a good time). Officers and Enlisted facilities were together, and a bottle of beer cost a nickel, a shot and a beer cost fifty cents. They also had a beach that they could enjoy. The base was relatively secure, with little chance of being hit. The rear bases had civilian populations that lived on them, such as „hooch mates‟ who were paid by the troops to clean their living quarters, shine their boots and they also worked in the PX and in the kitchen. (1:32:46) While they were paid by the United States Government, they were also sympathizers with the VC, and they were blamed for walking rounds onto target while on base during night attacks. Not much was seen of the Vietnamese military. American pilots would often fly with a Vietnamese pilot because it was known that the American knew the country better than the natives, and the Vietnamese helicopter pilots usually got lost. (1:34:21) Kit Carson scouts were also used by the American Military, they were recruited by dropping pamphlets by helicopter, which offered to send them to the States to Americanize them, pay them and in turn they would give away the positions of the VC and NVA. To protect their families, they were placed in special camps. In Tim‟s experience, the Kit Carson program did not work very well. In many cases the Kit Carson intentionally placed American platoons into ambushes, and then turned to the other side. (1:36:46) The Kit Carson in Tim‟s platoon disappeared during Ripcord. The men often did not trust them. Ripcord events were not really known until 1985, because the war was winding down and men were not supposed to be engaged in heavy combat. (1:38:40) After ten months, Tim was granted R&R in Australia. Everyone out in the field got one week recreation either in country or out. Japan, Taiwan, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Australia and Hawaii were some of the choices. Though Hawaii was mostly reserved for married men because it was closer for families to come and visit them. �          Single men usually chose Australia, because they were sick of seeing oriental people and wanted to get away. (1:40:08) They flew on commercial jets, once he had been given his orders, a colonel wanted to go to Australia too, but it was full so he tried to use rank to bump Tim off the flight. Since Tim had ten months in country and the colonel only had eight or nine months, Tim was able to keep his ticket. Three guys went AWOL while there, a major, an NCO and a noncom. The Australian attitude was excellent towards the Americans, they could tell the Americans because of their short haircut and they were all sun burnt. At a clothing depot, for two hundred dollars, a weeks worth of clothing could be purchased. Australians would approach the Americans and thank them for their service and share tips on finding the best restaurants and where they could find action. (1:42:12) Once, Tim was sitting in a small mom and pop restaurant and he was approached by a young couple, they had him finish his meal with them and then took him on a tour of the city in their little Volkswagen Beetle, and then dropped him off at his hotel and wished him good luck. Australian military service was for twelve years, but four to eight of it was in school. Once returning to Vietnam, he did not have to go back into the field. His Top (Master Sergeant) only had one or two months left, so he got Tim a job as a driver for the Assistant Commander of the Base. (1:43:58) He was given a drivers test, and learned to drive a stick. But he was on call twenty four hours a day, so he did not have any other duties. If the Lieutenant Colonel had to go to a village off base or driven around on base, Tim was required to drive him. Leaving Country (1:45:08)        When they were leaving, they were outside, and they saw the shadow of a plane. Suddenly, spotlights were turned on and there was the plane. The men all ran to the plane in fear of being hit by mortars. The flight attendants were all middle-aged women, and as they got closer and closer to the States they got younger and younger. Ten minutes into the flight, everyone was dead silent and they all cried because of the men they left behind and for those who were killed. The flight coming home took forever. Their plane landed at Fort Lewis. Mid flight, they stopped in Alaska to get their change of orders. The men were all in their summer fatigues and it was twenty degrees below zero at the Alaskan airport. (1:47:45) From Alaska, they went to Guam for refueling then on to Fort Lewis. Tim arrived home at 2am. He was supposed to report to Fort Benning, Georgia for the rest of his tour. Instead he was sent to Fort Lewis and then was given orders home. (1:50:01) Tim flew coach and had to sit next an old lady, who turned and saw that he was wearing an Army uniform. She asked him if he was one of the good guys who went to Germany or stayed in the States, he said “No, I was in Vietnam” and she said “Oh, one of those guys”. She then called the stewardess and refused to sit next to him, and said that either she or he be moved. She was moved to first class. �             Once home, Tim received by his parents with tears of joy, but his friends did not know how to react to him and he did not know how to react to them either. One long time buddy took him out when he first went home, showed him how he could pop wheelies in his car, went to a few bars and has not seen him since. (1:52:17) Tim did not have anything in common with his friends or family and shut himself up for a long time. Tim was then on inactive reserve for four years, but did not have to report for duty. He went back to his old job at the shoe store, and was made manager. He stayed in retail for a while and tried to keep an active social life. Tim also had two months of school left so he returned and got two degrees, one in sales management and the other in marketing management. While in school, Tim met his wife during the second week of classes and has been with her ever since. (1:55:00) It took Tim thirty years before he could really talk about his experiences. His kids helped him be able to talk about it, because they were really interested and proud of his service. Five years ago, he was able to get into a PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) group that has helped him. It was not until about ten years ago that he opened back up to his family and gained additional support from them. (1:57:32) Tim feels that Vietnam Vets are just now getting the recognition that they deserve. He went down to his father‟s VFW to join, but was turned away because he was a Vietnam Vet and they said that it was not a war it was a conflict, and besides that they lost the war. Tim was told that he did not belong with them. Tim‟s father went back with him and asked why he was not able to join. They told him kid or no kid, he can‟t join. So Tim‟s father went over and grabbed his file, tore it up and said “If you won‟t have my kid you won‟t have me anymore”; his father never went back to the post. (1:59:26) Tim feels that the veterans coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan are getting the treatment they deserve, but he has a love/hate relationship with them. He loves that they went and served their country, but hates all the publicity that they get and he is envious of them. Once he retires, Tim would like to work with the VA to help veterans coming back with similar physical and mental conditions. (2:01:06) PTSD treatment did not really exist until about fifteen years ago. When he first went to the VA for PTSD, he was told to quick drinking and stop taking aspirin and he would be okay. Tim does not like that the public still looks at Vietnam Veterans as baby killers and druggies, because there are many good veterans out there. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NewmanT1463V Title A name given to the resource Newman, Timothy (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Newman, Timothy Description An account of the resource Tim was born in Buffalo, New York in 1948, and was drafted in the United States Army in 1969. After becoming an infantryman, Tim was sent to Vietnam and was assigned to the 101st Airborne, 2/506th, A Company. He served with his company through the Ripcord campaign during the spring of 1970 and was one of the handful of men in his company to survive it unscathed. He spent most of his tour in the field, but served the final weeks as a jeep driver at Camp Evans. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-11-11 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/13f5370d651dfb43e66c78982656dd1b.mp3 5413f74b61aad5bf7a64e1650b58a1e4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4c3b8a4dbe6e5d1a674194aebbe6c453.pdf 363a61718e1fc61ef0b5048ab56a64f8 PDF Text Text Duane Newmeyer- Interview by Ted Reyda October 10, 2018 0:03 TR: It’s October 10th 2018 and I’m Ted Reyda. That’s R-e-y-d-a. Here at the old school house in Douglas, MI, conducting an oral history of Duane Newmeyer N-e-u-m-e-y-e-r. No. Well 0:20 DN: N-E 0:19 TR: spell it 0:21 DN: N-e-w 0:22 TR: N-e-w oh 0:23 DN: m-e-y-e-r Newmeyer 0:25 TR: Ok Um. Duane, just tell us about how and when you came to the area, or anything. Yep. How early did you did you first come? 0:35 DN: Oh 0:36 TR: and yeah 0:37 DN: Yeah um fifty—well it was about the late forties 0:41 TR: Late forties— 0:42 DN: Some friends of ours would come, and then we go to the beach. 0:45 TR: You were coming from where? 0:46 DN: Kalamazoo 0:47 TR: Kalamazoo 0:47 DN: yeah 0:48 TR: yeah 0:48 DN so we’d spend the day here and then go to beach and in downs uh town they had a uh barber shop on the main street, and at that time you could take a shower for a dollar. [laugh] 1:02 TR: Ah, so �1:02 DN: So they 1:03 TR: So there were no facilities then at Oval Beach then for fresh water then? 1:06 DN: Oh they did. You could rinse off, but that’s nothing 1:09 TR: Ah. 1:10 DN: like taking a shower you know. 1:10 TR: Oh. Ok. 1:11 DN: And so we did that and then changed our clothes and went to eat and headed back to Kalamazoo. 1:17 TR: Yeah. When you said “we” who’s--? 1:19 DN: Whoever’s about. Sometimes there was just two of us. Sometimes there was four of us. 1:23 TR: Friends or family? 1:24 DN: Friends. Yeah 1:25 TR: Oh, friends ok 1:26 DN Yeah. Friends. 1:27 TR: The, uh. At what point did--did you have family here? 1:33 DN: Oh. In the uh, (pause) I think it was in the fifties. 1:42 TR: The fifties. 1:43 DN: Mm My mother and my dad would come 1:45 TR: Ah 1:46 DN: With another couple sometime, and they’d go shopping and then go to Terra for dinner and 1: 51 TR: Ah 1:51 DN: then go back to Kalamazoo again. 1:54 TR: Ah yeah. �1:54 DN: And they like Saugatuck too, and they’d come and sometime my mother, my aunt, and mother’s cousins they would come for the day and uh, go shopping 2:05 TR: Wow 2:06 DN: And then just take a ride to the beach and then go home because we didn’t— 2:11 TR: yeah. At what point did they buy a house 2:15 DN: We bought the house in se- in nineteen sixty-five. 2:18 TR: Nineteen sixty-five 2:19 DN: yeah. 2: 20 TR: That—that was your aunt or your family? 2:22 DN: No, no it was just, we just bought it from uh, um. Well, the Smecks owned it and then, er, uh their daughter got snot grass. I think, and their daughter got it, and they kept it for a year, but it kind of bothered her to come to be there. So then she put a sign up for sale. 2:44 TR: Ah 2:45 DN: And I was going, mother and I were staying downtown at a motel and then I - I said I was going to see Jim Webster. I don’t know if you remember him. 2:53 TR: No. 2:54 DN: He was the head of the Red Barn Theater. 2:56 TR: Ah! Yes, 2:57 DN: And he lived on 2:57 TR: I heard the name. 2:59 DN: He lived on the end of our street. The Red Barn 3:02 TR: uh huh 3:03 DN: So, uh, so I did. I visited him. I told him the house was for sale, and he said “Yeah, the people that owned it were killed in an automobile accident” 3:13 TR: Oh. �3:13 DN: and, uh, so the daughter got it, but she wants to sell it. So I wrote down the number and then I said he said “Why don’t you call and see?”, and I said, “Well I’ll go home where we’re staying and talk to mother and see what she wants to do.” 3:27 TR: Uh huh 3:27 DN: So I did later. Mother said “Well, call see what she wants” so we called, she said yeah, she’d just as soon sell it. She said “give me $8,000. You can have it” 3:37 TR: [laugh] Oh really? In Sixty-five? 3:40 DN: sixty-five 3:41 TR: Uh, describe the house, how old it was or... 3:46 DN: Well, it was uh 3:50 TR: Well, first tell us the address, yeah. 3:51 DN: The address? 3:52 TR: yeah. 3:53 DN: 545 Spear Street. Upper Spear 3:55 TR: Upper Spear? Yes. 3:55 DN: Yeah 3:56 TR: Yes yeah 3:57 DN: and uh so, um, yeah, we bought it in, well we bought it in sixty-five. 4:05 TR: mmhm 4:06 DN: and uh 4:09 TR: Did you, was it in good repair? 4:11 DN: Pardon? 4:11 TR: Was it in good repair? 4:13 DN: Oh yeah, everything was in good repair. �4:14 TR: Oh. That’s good. 4:16 DN: yeah. We didn’t have to do anything. Just had it inspected you know. You call for that and also for termites or anything like that, and it was all ok. 4:24 TR: Right. 4:25 DN: And then my uncle come to look at it too from Kalamazoo. And uh see if it was all right. So everything was ok, so we signed the papers and went to our lawyer and bought it. 4:37 TR: Uh huh. Did you did you have to get a mortgage? 4:39 DN: No. We paid 4:41 TR: Cash? 4:41 DN: Mother paid cash. 4:42 TR: Ah 4:43 DN: Yeah. So 4:44 TR: They--you were doing painting at that time? 4:45 DN: Oh yeah. Yeah. 4:47 TR: So you had some ready cash 4:49 DN: Yeah. 4:49 TR: [laugh] 4:50 DN: But she paid for it [laugh] and uh 4:53 TR: So how many years did she come up? 4:56 DN: Oh that was sixty-five, and she passed away in seventy-five. 5:00 TR: Ah, so ten years 5:01 DN: Yeah. Ten years 5:03 TR: Then you took possession of it then? 5:05 DN: Yeah. It was an either and or, you know �5:07 TR: Ah. 5:07 DN: So then after she passed away, but she would come up weekends, and we’d come up week sometimes stay a week like Christmas time. And, uh, just be here at the cottage it was kind of nice. And also Thanksgiving we’d come, and it was my mother had a sister and a brother and it was our turn to have Christmas, er, to have Thanksgiving. 5:29 TR: uh huh 5:29 DN: So we said let’s have it here in Saugatuck if the weather’s nice. 5:33 TR: mm hm 5:33 DN: Well, it turned out to be real nice, so they came. 5:36 TR: Ah 5:37 DN: For the afternoon and stayed till about seven o’clock and then went back home. 5:40 TR: Was the house furnished, or you had to furnish it? 5:43 DN: It- we had to furnish it. It had some in there. It had a like a—a couch in there. 5:50 TR: Ah 5:51 DN: Some chairs. And by then we had to furnish it, the rest of it ourselves. The stove and refrigerator stayed. 5:57 TR: Ah 5:57 DN: And 5:59 TR: And course, was any of this, when did you meet Erwin? 6:02 DN: In sixty-five also. 6:04 TR: Ah 6:05 DN: Yeah 6:07 TR: You met him in Chicago or? 6:08 DN: Ah. Yes. Yeah. 6:11 TR: Ah �6:12 DN: Yeah I met him— 6:13 TR: Did you used to do work in Chicago? Or just 6:15 DN: Me? 6:16 TR: Yeah. 6:17 DN: Well later on, when I moved there after, em, uh, that was, yeah. Yeah, I don’t know I forget what year it was. 6:28 TR: Ah. The, uh 6:30 DN: In the eighties I think some place 6:32 TR: So Erwin got to meet your mother then? Did Erwin get to meet your mother? 6:37 DN: Oh yes. 6:37 TR: Ok. 6:38 DN: Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. He met her and uh, so, oh yeah, we got along good, cause the three of us we had good times you know. So 6:46 TR: Well, what point did you go to the, uh, Blue Tempo? (pause) Before your mother died or? 6:57 DN: Oh, yeah, before she passed away we had to go sometime 7:00 TR: Did she know you were going there? 7:02 DN: No. 7:02 TR: Did she go there? 7:03 DN: No [laugh] 7:04 TR: Oh. Ok. All right. 7:05 DN: She, I don’t think she knew, but if she did she never said anything. 7:08 TR: Yeah. Ok. 7:09 DN: But then Erwin and I would go, you know, go there sometime and then uh �7:13 TR: Yeah. What was it like? The- the Blue Tempo? 7:16 DN: Oh, it was kind of nice. It was uh, a nice bar, you know. And uh 7:20 TR: It was down below or 7:22 DN: Down yeah, downstairs site. And then Ted, Toad, ran it, you know 7:26 TR: That’s why sometime people called it Toad’s 7:29 DN: Yeah. There’s Toad, there’s Toad. His last name was Davis. 7:33 TR: Ah 7:34 DN: And then his wife was Nancy. 7:36 TR: Ah 7:37 DN: and [laugh] and they would both work in the bar you know, and that was kind of nice just to go over and visit with people. 7:43 TR: I hear sometimes it was high water and they had 7:45 DN: yeah [laugh] 7:46 TR: to put planks 7:48 DN: [laugh] 7:48 TR: Yeah. 7:49 DN: Yeah, the water would come up almost to the, uh, to the bar there 7:52 TR: Yeah 7:53 DN: almost to the bar there. 7:54 TR: Did they have music there? 7:55 DN: Have what? 7:56 TR: Did they have music or-- 7:58 DN: Oh yeah 7:58 TR: --any kind of entertainment �7:59 DN: They had music too 7:59 TR: Ah 8:00 DN: Well, mostly records you know 8:01 TR: Records. Ok 8:02 DN: Yeah 8:02 TR: Did people dance? 8:03 DN: Yeah, they would dance a bit 8:05 TR: Ok 8:05 DN: too, but but 8:07 TR: What percentage of the clientele were men? As opposed, were there 8:11 DN: Most all all men 8:12 TR: All men? 8:13 DN: Yeah. Not too many gals at that time. 8:15 TR: Ah 8:15 DN: It was almost all men. 8:16 TR: Ah. 8:17 DN: And then 8:18 TR: Did you, were you ever raided or anything like that 8:21 DN: Get what? 8:21 TR: Raided by the police 8:23 DN: Not that I know of 8:24 TR: Because I think at that point it was illegal to serve homosexuals liquor from like what I understood. �8:32 DN: Oh. Could be. I don’t think it—I don’t remember if it was, but I don’t think it was ever raided 8:37 TR: Ok 8:38 DN: Yeah. 8:39 TR: And they, did they did serve liquor then? 8:41 DN: Oh yeah. Yeah. 8:42 TR: Beer and mixed drinks? 8:43 DN: Yeah. Mixed drinks yeah. Oh yeah, and then they had sandwiches you know and pretzels. 8:47 TR: Oh, they did 8:47 DN: All that, yeah. 8:48 TR: Sandwiches 8:48 DN: Yeah 8:49 TR: What was your favorite drink? 8:51 DN: A vodka tonic with a wedge of lime 8:54 TR: Ah. Ok. 8:56 DN: So. Uh. 8:57 TR: When’s the last time, did you, were, did you know, I mean, when it closed I mean did you go to the closing or anything like that? 9:05 DN: No, cause it burned-- 9:06 TR: It burned 9:07 DN: --it burned down 9:07 TR: Ok. 9:09 DN: One morning, yeah. Had the news on we did, and it said that the Blue Temple burned down. �9:16 TR: Ah 9:16 DN: So then I went, and I think that was in seventy-five too. 9:19 TR: Seventy-five 9:19 DN: The year that my mother passed away, but later, you know. I think it was 9:24 TR: Boy I just 9:24 DN: --seventy-five. 9:25 TR: missed it then because I moved here in seventy-six. 9:27 DN: Oh. Yeah. And uh, it burned and, um, so then we went to look at it, you know and see it, but most burned 9:34 TR: It was burned to the ground 9:35 DN: Almost yeah. Yeah. 9:37 TR: So is that where that blank lot is right now? No. That’s, isn’t that where the Quonset hut is? That that building that, the rounded roof building? I forget exactly where it was. 9:49 DN: Yeah. It could be it was at where Quonset hut was. I think 9:53 TR: That’s where they rebuilt 9:54 DN: Yeah. I think that 9:55 TR: Ok. 9:56 DN: That’s where it was. Along there anyway. 9:57 TR: yeah. 9:59 DN: And uh, 10:00 TR: yeah 10:01 DN: so and later on the bar was at, uh, on Butler Street. 10:06 TR: Really? 10:07 DN: Yeah, uh (pause) �10:11 TR: The Elbow or no? 10:13 DN: Uh, (pause) well it’s in the first block , you know, where, um, is where Pumpernickel’s is. 10:23 TR: Oh! 10:23 DN: Butler Street, where you come out and the whole street there to your left, you know, go right to the end, the building is painted bright yellow. 10:31 TR: Ok. 10:33 DN: The Log Cabin 10:34 TR: The Log Cabin 10:34 DN: Yeah Yeah it was 10:35 TR: OK the Log Cabin 10:35 DN: Yeah that’s what it was called. The Log Cabin and then 10:37 TR: So then that 10:38 DN: And that went gay for a while. 10:40 TR: Yeah, East of the Sun was there 10:42 DN: Yeah. 10:43 TR: Ok. 10:45 DN: Later on yeah 10:45 TR: Now it’s something else. Yeah, no. It’s bright yellow 10:47 DN: Yeah. 10:49 TR: I’ll be darned, that’s been a lot of things because I heard at one time that was a meat market. Way back 10:56 DN: that could be 10:58 TR: yeah all these buildings 10:59 DN: Yeah, uh, Pumpernickel’s used to be a meat market and grocery store �11:01 TR: I, yes, I knew that. 11:02 DN I remember that 11:05 TR: Yeah. Did you ever go, well certainly you must, you and uh, Duane must have gone over. Erwin I mean, used to go over to the beach, I would imagine. 11:13 DN: Oh yeah. We went to the beach. Yeah. 11:16 TR: Did you ever wander up into the dunes? 11:18 DN: Once a while, yeah, we go there and walk around. Sometime we’d set up there. Then again, we’d just stay in the bottom. 11:24 TR: Were there nudists back then? 11:26 DN: Oh yeah. 11:26 TR: Oh yeah. 11:27 DN: Yep. Oh yeah. 11:28 TR: Strangely enough, last week it was warm. I hadn’t been over there for a long time, and there are still nudists there. 11:33 DN: Yeah. 11:33 TR: I, now, that the city owns north of the Oval to the uh, outlet, uh, you know, I thought, well they’re not going to do that anymore, but there were nude men so. 11:43 DN: Oh. Really? 11:45 TR: And they said in the summer you watch out for tour—as they call tourists—but they’re still out there. 11:49 DN: Oh. 11:49 TR: And that’s nice to hear because of 11:53 DN: Yeah. 11:53 TR: It’s a very nice thing to enjoy in the summer 11:54 DN: yeah. It was nice years ago you know �11:57 TR: yeah 11:57 DN: going up there and then, yeah, there’d be about six or seven of us sometime. You know we’d just, where the parking lot is, just walk in the sand a little bit. Like Bob Birch, and Bob Harris, and Bill D. Young 12:07 TR: Yes 12:08 DN: We’d all be in the circle, then we play cards 12:11 TR: Yes! You’re part of that group 12:13 DN: Yeah. 12:14 TR: And I, we used to get really sunburned, not sun burned, but sun tanned there 12:17 DN: Yeah. 12:18 TR: because they were always playing cards 12:20 DN: Cards, we, uh, played cards and it was kind of fun and then course then, later on, I got an umbrella. 12:26 TR: Yeah 12:27 DN: Because I couldn’t take the sun-12:28 TR: Oh I -12:28 DN:-- too long I’d just burn to a crisp. That or I’d have to go up to the concession stand and set there for about half hour. 12:34 TR: Yeah. 12:34 DN: And then come back to the beach. 12:36 TR: Yeah. It’s funny. I used to go swimming around three o’clock, you know, during the summer, and no longer a, uh, group there. 12:45 DN: No. No. 12:46 TR: Most of them moved away or died or something like that 12:47 DN: Yeah. Oh yeah. 12:49 TR: So they were an, an institution. They would always observe who was walking down. �12:54 DN: Yeah. 12:56 TR: to the private area-12:57 DN: Yeah, yeah we could see it 12:57 TR: --of beaches 12:59 DN: we weren’t too far from there and, 12:59 TR: Yeah. 13:01 DN: at that time uh, well the other owners, they would charge to go down there. 13:05 TR: Yes. 13:06 DN: In the other end 13:07 TR: And that’s why people then felt safer, because 13:09 DN: Yeah. Yeah. 13:10 TR: Nobody would bother them. 13:11 DN: Yeah. 13:12 TR: But, I, yeah, I moved here in seventy-six, and I was walking along the beach towards the outlet and, uh, said “Why are those men looking at me from up in the dunes?” And I said, “Oh. Oh dear” 13:26 DN: [laugh] Yeah. 13:26 TR: [laugh] Now I know! 13:27 DN: No. Yeah. [laugh] 13:30 TR: And, uh, at, you know, uh, I guess oxbow they used to have all kinds of parties and things 13:36 DN: Yeah. Down there. The oxbow. Yeah. 13:37 TR: The far end 13:38 DN: yeah. Yeah. �13:39 TR: Type of thing. 13:40 DN: yeah. 13:40 TR: Where did you meet Duane? 13:41 DN: What do you mean? 13:42 TR: Erwin! I’m sorry 13:43 DN: Yeah. 13:44 TR: I’m switching the names. 13:45 DN: In Chicago. 13:46 TR: In Chicago. 13:37 DN: It was a friend of mine. He was staying with a friend of mine. 13:49 TR: Ah. 13:50 DN: And, uh, I had, uh, I would talk to him on the phone because I would call my friend 13:55 TR: Ah. 13:55 DN: But he’d be gone sometime and Erwin would answer. So I would talk with him. And then, I’d just say, “Come up some time to Saugatuck.” He says “Yeah, maybe eventually.” And then, uh, 14:06 TR: Erwin, uh, Erwin had never been to Saugatuck? 14:10 DN: Oh yeah! 14:11 TR: Oh? 14:11 DN: He used to come up, yeah. 14:12 TR: So he knew of it. 14:13 DN: Oh yeah. 14:13 TR: Ok. 14:14 DN: He would come up with other friends before I even knew it. �14:16 TR: Ah. Ok. 14:17 DN: And then, uh, maybe I showed you pictures of it. He had a red corvette? 14:21 TR: Yeah. 14:21 DN: And that was parked in, uh, pictures of, uh ship and shore 14:26 TR: Yeah. 14:27 DN: and uh 14:30 TR: Yeah. 14:30 DN: But then one, oh, one, during the week, my friend would call me and say that his boss had tickets for Hello, Dolly. 14:40 TR: Oo 14:40 DN: Two of them, but he had to go out of town him and his wife, so, he gave them to Wes. So we called me, would I want to come in to Hello, Dolly ? I said sure, so I came 14:50 TR: Sure 14:51 DN: I come in Friday night and the, um, mm, ah, musical was Saturday. 14:56 TR: Ah. 14:56 DN: So then I met Erwin after that. Come home. 14:59 TR: Was their place in Chicago downtown or Northside? Where were they living in Chicago? 15:05 DN: Uh, yeah, I can’t remember the name of it. Yeah. Uh. 15:10 TR: But it was convenient to-15:11 DN: Oh yeah down there 15:12 TR: -- The theater district? 15:13 DN: yeah. Downtown some place 15:15 TR: So you used to go in to Chicago before the four lane. How long did it take you to get there without the express way? �15:22 DN: Yeah the expressway. Oh, about two and half hours, three hours. 15:28 TR: Really? 15:28 DN: Yeah. If there wasn’t too much traffic. 15:29 TR: Oh. Oh yeah. 15:30 DN: Because he lived on North Avenue, so that was nice. Cause I would just stay on the expressway until I got to North Avenue and then get off, in two blocks I was by the house. 15:37 TR: Ok. 15:38 DN: Yeah. 15:41 TR: The, and when did you move back here permanently? From Chicago? 15:44 DN: Back here? Uh, to Saugatuck, (pause) uh, 15:52 TR: Well, we’ll think of it, yeah. 15:54 DN: Yeah, maybe 15:54 TR: The uh 15:55 DN: in the nineties? 15:56 TR: Erwin stayed in Chicago working then? 15:58 DN: Oh yeah. He was there, and then I was working in Kalamazoo, and then my mother was living. 16:01 TR: Ah. 16:03 DN: And we had the apartment house next door with twelve apartments, so I couldn’t live, leave there. You know. 16:07 TR: Ah. 16:08 DN: Because it was busy keeping those up, you know? So then after she passed away it was seventy-five, and then, I think in the eighties someplace, then I moved to Chicago. 16:18 TR: Ah. 16:19 DN: And I was there almost eight years. �16:21 TR: Ah. 16:22 DN: And he sold the house there, and we moved to Saugatuck. 16:24 TR: Ok. That. That’s when it happened. 16:26 DN: Yeah. And so we’d been here and 16:30 TR: And congratulations. I understand, uh, the two of you married not too long ago. 16:37 DN: Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. In, um, January. 16:43 TR: January of 16:45 DN: 20 16:46 TR: 2018. 16:47 DN: Yeah. 16:48 TR: Yeah. Well. Congratulations. 16:49 DN: Yeah. 16:50 TR: It’s unfortunate that Erwin is no longer with us. 16:53 DN: Yeah. 16:54 TR: I enjoyed meeting him, and, uh, yeah. 16:58 DN: Yeah. Yeah, I really miss him. You know? He passed away the fifth of February. 17:03 TR: Yeah. 17:03 DN: Almost eight months. Nine months. Eight months already. 17:06 TR: Well, you always will miss him. There’s no doubt about it. 17:07 DN: Yeah. Yeah. 17:10 TR: That’s, uh. 17:11 DN: Yeah. And things come up, you know 17:12 TR: Exactly. �17:13 DN: That we did and think about it. Oh yeah. It’s just a different life all together. 17:17 TR: Oh. 17:17 DN: You know. 17:19 TR: But, what age are you right now? 17:21 DN: (pause). I’m, uh, eighty-six 17:24 TR: Eighty-six? And you’re still working painting? 17:26 DN: [laugh] 17:28TR: I I can’t believe it. Because 17:29 DN: Little bit. 17:30 TR: I’m seventy-five, and I want to give up. 17:32 DN: Yeah. 17:33 TR: gardening yeah. 17:34 DN: Oh yeah. Well, that’s harder work too. 17:35 TR: Well painting, to me, also 17:38 DN: Oh yeah. If it was a lot of hard work, I wouldn’t do it. 17:41 TR: Yeah. 17:42 DN: But this is just touch up spots. 17:43 TR: Ah. 17:44 DN: For Larry on the wood work, and 17:45 TR: The Pumpernickel. Yeah. 17:47 DN: Yeah. At his house. 17:49 TR: Oh yeah. At his house 17:49 DN: I’m working at his house. �17:50 TR: He’s still live Upper Spear? 17:51 DN: Yeah. 17:52 TR: Uh yeah. 17:53 DN: Just down the other end of us. Yeah. 17:54 TR: Ok. 17:55 DN: And uh, 17:56 TR: Oh, I see. 17:56 DN: Yeah. And because he wants eventually, I think the end of this month he’s done at the restaurant. 18:01 TR: They close for the winter? 18:03 DN: Oh no. He sold it. 18:04 TR: He- I did not know that. 18:06 DN: Yeah. He sold the business, and he sold the building. 18:09 TR: I’ll be damned. 18:10 DN: Last year already. But he agreed to with the new owners to help them out and 18:14 TR: Yeah. 18:15 DN: and all this and that 18:16 TR: Will they do you think they’ll keep the same food? 18:20 DN: I don’t know. 18:21 TR: and menu? 18:21 DN: Yeah. They want to, I guess, have a restaurant, and eventually they want to have dinners at night. 18:26 TR: Oh 18:27 DN: What I understand, so how true that is I don’t know. �18:29 TR: With more and more people staying in the B and B’s, they’re looking for places 18:34 DN: Yeah. 18:35 TR: Course Hercules closed, but the. 18:37 DN: Yeah. 18:38 TR: Was sold and they are going to, and somebody else is taking over that. So. 18:42 DN: Yeah and well for a while, um, maybe three, four years ago, Larry had started for breakfast or for dinners at night. But that only lasted one season. And he didn’t do it again. I don’t know 18:53 TR: Yeah. 18:54 DN: It didn’t pay out or what 18:56 TR: Getting help consistently and 19:00 DN: Yeah 19:01 TR: All that, boy, it 19:01 DN: It’s hard. 19:02 TR: Tough business. 19:03 DN: yeah. 19L93 TR: Uh. 19:04 DN: So he said too, he wanted the house to look nice too, and he put in new carpeting in the dining room 19:09 TR: Will he sell the house, also do you think? 19:11 DN: He wants to sell, excuse me. He wants to sell it 19:14 TR: And move away? 19:15 DN: Yeah. They’ll move to, I think it’s somewhat close to Detroit some places. He has a sister and relatives there. 19:21 TR: Ah �19:22 DN: And they said he could go there, and Jenny, she doesn’t have many. She only has a brother, and he’s a priest in New Orleans. 19:31 TR: Wow 19:32 DN: So, but he says, something happens to him well then at least there’ll be some family around for Jenny. 19:38 TR: Yeah 19:38 DN: And, uh, so, but, then all last week he said, well after they, he’s done with it he said I think they’re just going to stay for a while, relax, and he said, I said, “Well how long you had the restaurant?” He said “thirty years.” 19:53 TR: Yes. 19:54 DN: That’s a long time. So. He said, “Just relax” and, maybe they’ll wait till spring then to put the house up for sale. 20:00 TR: The. You must be, one of the original, or, person who has lived in Upper Spear area the longest, I would imagine. 20:11 DN: Um. Now I am, yes. 20:12 TR: Now. 20:13 DN: Yeah 20:14 TR: Well, one of your neighbors was Burr Tillstrom 20:16 DN: Yeah. 20:18 TR: And uh, 20:19 DN: Yeah he was 20:20 TR: Interesting character 20:21 DN: Yeah 20:21 TR: Somebody listening to the tape who don’t know who that is, he created uh, the whole Kukla, Fran, and Ollie thing in Chicago 20:28 DN: Yeah �20:29 TR: And I remember from my childhood, and we have a memorial to him in our downtown Saugatuck park, but yeah, describe his structure up there. 20:40 DN: The house? 20:41 TR: Yeah. 20:42 DN: It was all, it was a nice old house. It was all barn wood inside. He, uh, had to fix it up. 20:46 TR: Was it originally a barn, do you think? 20:47 DN: I think so, yeah 20:49 TR: Yeah. 20:50 DN: And then there was barn wood limber, and then he put more in. Well, Jim Webster did a lot of that first. 20:55 TR: Ah. They got the man from the theater 20:56 DN: Yeah, he did most of it. And that burst after Jim died, and they had it for sale and, uh, 21:04 TR: Burr 21:05 DN: Burr Tillstrom bought it 21:07 TR: Yeah 21:07 DN: He lived in Chicago, and when I moved to Chicago, and I did painting for him in his condo 21:13 TR: Yes 21:13 DN: Over there too. And uh 21:17 TR: Describe what we had a conversation about all the little crevices in his house. What were in, in these crevices then? 21:23 DN: Well they found a lot of different things in there I guess. I uh, papers and pictures and 21:30 TR: Well, from what I, when I was up there, all, when he needed a new Kuklapolitan character, Ollie or what was, I’m forgetting some of the characters. He couldn’t throw them away. He, he would put them in little cubbyholes in the walls. �21:48 DN: Oh, that that could be yeah. 21:49 TR: He still had all the characters 21:50 DN: Yeah 21:51 TR: that he 21:53 DN: I think 21:53 TR: refurbished it 21:54 DN: Yeah. Because later on, after Burr died, and then Jim and David bought the house. 22:00 TR: Yeah. 22:01 DN: For uh 22:03 TR: Yeah 22:04 DN: For uh 22:04 TR: Yes 22:05 DN: to rent out. Then they found a lot of stuff in there I guess of Burr’s, you know? 22:08 TR: Yes. 22:09 DN: So 22:10 TR: The, uh, from what I understand he was Christian Science 22:13 DN: Yeah 22:13 TR: and he didn’t want to mow his lawn or anything because of insects and frogs and things he might kill them so, you know. It probably looked a little disheveled, yeah. 22:23 DN: Yeah 22:24 TR: [laugh] 22:24 DN: but he would cut it sometime 22:25 TR: Oh, ok. �22:26 DN: Cause sometime I’d come up weekend just, or Saturday, and then have to go back to Kalamazoo if we were going to do something. And then I’d cut the grass and so, like that, and he’d be there cutting his grass, and he’d come. He’d wave like this, “Come on over here. I just made a pie.” 22:40 TR: Oh 22:40 DN: So then I’d come over, he had a deck in the back. 22:43 TR: Yeah. 22:43 DN: On the back side there. So then we’d sit and have pie, then I’d go back cutting grass, and he did too. 22:47 TR: Oh yeah. When I stopped by he was baking bread and said “Oh you’ve got to stay for some fresh baked bread” 22:53 DN: Yeah. 22:54 TR: It was very good 22:55 DN: Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. He was kind of nice. And then he had a dog, Emily 22:58 TR: Yeah. The hound dog 22:59 DN: Yeah (laugh) 23:00 TR: Yes. Cause I was over there where he was just as disturbed as I’ve ever seen him because he took him over to Oval Beach, and let him loose. And the dog just chased something, and he was calling and calling. And we all went out trying to find the dog. 23:16 DN: Yeah. 23:18 TR: And then he just waited, and it finally came back. I guess it got hungry, but he was so disturbed over that dog. 23:24 DN: Yeah. I suppose. 23:25 TR: Wouldn’t listen to him 23:26 DN: Yeah. Yeah. He was quite a pet for him, you know. 23:29 TR: I know it’s interesting when they, uh, I think it was the Saugatuck Douglas Women’s Club got together that money to build that little, uh, to make that bronze sculpture of that. �23:29 DN: Yeah 23:32 TR: Young girl with a puppet. He said he never wanted any memorial 23:46 DN: Oh. 23:46 TR: And, and uh, I remember him saying that. I guess that the people of the town thought that he needed to be remembered. 23:52 DN: Remembered yeah. But 23:54 TR: And you think about my nieces and nephews and grand nieces and nephew, they hardly even know about him, so 24:00 DN: No. yeah. It’s true 24:02 TR: It needs documentation 24:03 DN: Yeah 24:04 TR: and the, uh, Historical Society has a lot of things from it 24:09 DN: from- from- yeah. 24:10 TR: I got one of his old—he did a couple little performances here in town 24:15 DN: Oh 24:17 TR: And, uh, very enjoyable 24:18 DN: Yeah. 24:19 TR: And, uh, he left some of the stage work and 24:21 DN: Yeah 24:21 TR: And there’s two other guys that live in Douglas, uh, I gave it to them. Because they were going to refurbish it and all that, but they said they’d loan it back to the, what we now call the History Center. Any time we wanted to, to do a show, so. One of the amazing character, that’s for sure. 24:39 DN: Yeah, he was nice and one oh, that one weekend Fran was up and some of the other guys and then, it was kind of nice too. 24:47 TR: Oh yeah. �24:48 DN: And then mother and I had him up for dinner. 24:50 TR: Oh, really? 24:51 DN: All of them, and then for dessert we went to his house and showed pictures of Kuklu, Fran, and Ollie. 24:56 TR: Oh good 24:58 DN: When he first started and all this, so that was kind of interesting 25:01 TR: Yeah 25:02 DN: Yeah, so. 25:03 TR: I wonder when he first started coming to Saugatuck. Uh. Don’t know. Yeah. 25:09 DN: Yeah, well, no. I, um, no and I can’t even remember the year he bought the house either. 25:15 TR: He didn’t have it when you, when your family bought it 25:18 DN: No 25:19 TR: No it was after that. 25:20 DN: No. No. Jim Webster owned it at that time. 25:21 TR: Ok and 25:23 DN: When we bought it, yeah. Yeah. We bought our house. And later, Jim, uh, I don’t know was around four or five years, and then he passed away. 25:31 TR: Ah 25:32 DN: had cancer I think 25:32 TR: Yeah. 25:33 DN: And then he worked at the Red Barn and um 25:36 TR: had a lot of interesting, a lot of local people that performed there. 25:42 DN: Yeah 25:44 TR: At the Red Barn and for our summer theater �25:45 DN: Oh yeah. Red Barn Theater there yeah 25:47 TR: Yeah 25:47 DN: That was kind of nice a place, you know? 25:50 TR: Oh exactly, especially when you knew the people and 25:51 DN: Yeah 25:52 TR: Playing characters that, wow, I didn’t think they were that good and 25:55 DN: Yeah it was kind of nice 25:56 TR: There was a couple of them now, I’m forgetting the names, their children did a little bit of the open stock and went on to do television and various things. 26:05 DN: Yeah. 26:05 TR: I can’t remember the name now, but I’m sure it’s been documented somewhere. But, I , yeah. 26:12 DN: Yeah it was nice. 26:13 TR: Glad to see it, it went on, well I guess it’s folded now. Isn’t it? Are they going to use that? 26:19 DN: What’s that? The-26:21 TR: They were going to do a brewery 26:22 DN: Yeah they’re going to make a brewery out of the Red Barn. That’s a shame 26:25 TR: So 26:25 DN: That’s a shame. Too bad. 26:27 TR: So they’re not having summer stock there 26:28 DN: No 26:28 TR: Then we have the, you know, SCA, 26:30 DN: Yeah �26:31 TR: the Saugatuck Center for the Arts, so 26:32 DN: Yeah. 26:33 TR: Theater continues, but 26:35 DN: Oh yeah. It’s not like the old-26:37 TR: No 26:37 DN: Red Barn 26:37 TR: They—they get professionals 26:40 DN: Yeah. 26:40 TR: coming in 26:41 DN: Yeah 26:41 TR: Oh, I’m sure the Red Barn had some professionals. 26:44 DN: Yeah, but not all, no no. But it was interesting 26:47 TR: Oh, absolutely. 26:48 DN: We enjoyed it. 26:48 TR: A lot of the summer resort communities 26:50 DN: Yeah 26:51 TR: had theater 26:52 DN: Theater, like then Augusta too. Remember? Augusta had a theater too 26:56 TR: yeah. 26:57 DN: And that was nice too, but, oh, like the one here in the summer was awful hot and muggy. It was hot in there. That fan 27:03 TR: Oh 27:04 DN: Spin, but oh. It was hot �27:07 TR: Yeah. I don’t know if you, I’ve been trying to get information, um, Tower Marine, there used to be a tower. And that’s why they called it Tower Marine. Do you remember that? 27:19 DN: No. I don’t remember that. 27:19 TR: No. You don’t? 27:20 DN: No. 27:20 TR: Do you remember that big Quonset hut type of building where they now have the big pole barn where they store the boats? I saw pictures, and the, um, Petersons told me they bought it. And, uh, it used to have, they used to have dances and entertainment there, and they had that little rooms that you could rent. Little rooms. But you didn’t, you don’t remember anything about it then? 27:50 DN: I don’t remember that no. 27:51 TR: Ok (pause) What restaurants did your family go to? Did you cook at home, or did you go out? 27:56 DN: Oh we cooked and we went out to eat. They had different ones um, well the Butler was always there. 28:04 TR: Ah ha. 28:05 DN: And um, I don’t remember the upstairs. They had an upstairs to the Butler years ago. 28:11 TR: Yep. 28:12 DN: And 28:12 TR: And they, unfortunately tore it down. 28:13 DN: That down, yeah. It got bad, so they tore that down and 28:17 TR: Yeah 28:17 DN: And oh there was-28:18 TR: Changed it quite a bit, yeah. 28:20 DN: Yeah. 28:21 TR: And there was Terra. Did you ever go to Terra? �28:22 DN: And Terra, we’d go to Terra, and there was a restaurant, well, there still is a restaurant right next to the drug store? On that side (pause) 28:34 TR: Ah. The Embassy? Or 28:37 DN: Embassy is now. I guess. It was called something else 28:39 TR: Oh. Of course 28:40 DN: And a couple ran that then. They had good food. 28:42 TR: Ah 28:42 DN: They had homemade dressings. 28:44 TR: Oh. 28:44 DN: And then, but I can’t remember the name of it. 28:48 TR: Yeah. Did your family ever have a boat? 28:51 DN: No. No. 28:52 TR: Oh. 28:53 DN: No No 28:54 TR: Not boating people 28:55 DN: No [laugh]. No they didn’t. See my dad never got, um, I mean lived in the house in Saugatuck. 28:01 TR: No? 28:03 DN: He passed away before 28:03 TR: Ah. 28:04 DN: He died in, ah (pause) fifty, fifty-eight. I think it was. 29:10 TR: uh huh. 29:11 DN: fifty-seven, fifty-eight. So. 29:13 TR: Do you think he would have approved of you guys having a place here? �29:20 DN: Oh, I think he would have. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. But they would come here, Mother and Dad, and go just for the day. Couple of times they stayed overnight in a place too. Then they’d shop a little bit and. 29:35 TR: ah. 29:35 DN: Um 29:36 TR: What did your father do? 29:37 DN: He was a barber 29:38 TR: Ah. 29:39 DN: On Michigan Avenue there in Kalamazoo. He had two, uh, people working with him. 29:42 TR: Ah. But you mentioned that you’d come up here and get a haircut up here? (pause). I thought you said that. No? 29:50 DN: No. No. 29:50 TR: Oh, I’m sorry 29:51 DN: No. There was a barber shop here on the main street 29:53 TR: Yes! 29:54 DN: We would go there to take a shower 29:56 TR: Ok. That’s what you meant. 29:58 DN: Yeah. And it cost a dollar 29:59 TR: Ah. 30:01 DN: At that time to take a shower 30:02 TR: I remember they had the barber pole 30:05 DN: Yeah 30:05 TR: I moved here in seventy-six, they 30:07 DN: Oh. Yeah. �30:07 TR: Then they built, I think, that’s where those clothing stores are now. 30:10 DN: Yeah. mm 30:11 TR: There was a news stand near by 30:12 DN: Yeah and then, Don Poll- Polder, remember him 30:17 TR: Yes 30:18 DN: He had a real nice store there too 30:20 TR: Yep 30:22 DN: Real nice store, couple doors down there. 30:22 TR: With the architect John Hurst, I helped redo some of those buildings. 30:26 DN: OK. 30:26 TR: When I, I decided I didn’t want to design 30:29 DN: Yeah 30:30 TR: Office furniture anymore 30:31 DN: Yeah. Yeah Don was a nice person too. And I did a lot of work at his cottage. 30:35 TR: I would imagine 30:36 DN: Painting and 30:38 TR: Yeah. Yeah. 30:39 DN: And also in Chicago 30:40 TR: Ah, ah. 30:42 DN: The, um, his friend (pause) Lauderdale was his last name. But I think he got the building. Kind of right across the street. 30:58 TR: Yes. 30:58 DN: From Don Poller’s place. 31:00 TR: Yes. �31:00 DN: That building right next to um 31:02 TR: Kilwins? 31:02 DN: That fudge place 31:04 TR: Yes! Yes! That’s the building I helped work on. 31:06 DN: Ok. 31:07 TR: With John Hurst, yes. 31:08 DN: Yeah. And I think he, oh, Don left to him that building 31:12 TR: Yes. Yes. And uh, 31:15 DN: Rick Lauderdale I think his name was. 31:18 TR: It’s interesting that when they tore into that building, a lot of those buildings along there interconnected with door ways. 31:25 DN: Yeah. 31:25 TR: You know. I guess because people owned all the buildings, and they wanted access to the and all that. There was all these inner workings and walls and really crazy stuff. Yeah. 31:36 DN: Yeah. I guess so. 31:37 TR: I found a board in there that said the Saugatuck Lumber Company. And they’ve been trying to research, where was the Saugatuck Lumber Company? It was printed on a board. 31:47 DN: Oh 31:47 TR: And so, at the point there must have been a company 31:52 DN: Yeah. Yeah. 31:53 TR: selling lumber, and don’t know if they made it here. 31:57 DN: Yeah. I don’t either. 31:58 TR: A lot of changes that’s for sure. 32:00 DN: Yeah. �32:02 TR: What’s some of the biggest changes do you think you’ve seen in the area? Over the period of time? 32:08 DN: Oh. Oh, the town and the people 32:11 TR: Yeah oh of course. New people 32:13 DN: Yeah. 32:14 TR: But how about, well, of course shops. 32:16 DN: Yeah, the shops have changed a lot too. 32:20 TR: I- I was just I guess I’m getting at the condos. Condos became a new thing 32:25 DN: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah condos 32:26 TR: Yeah Forrest Morris was one of the first to buy into the that, uh, I’ve forgotten now what it was called. The one on Francis Street. That old building, the yellow condos. It was the first condo conversion. 32:39 DN: Oh 32:39 TR: That building was abandoned, yeah. 32:43 DN: Oh. 32:43 TR: It was redone, and they went trying to sell it, and they made the condo association. So, you know. So, it was one of the first. 32:50 DN: Yeah. 32:50 TR: It was only four units 32:52 DN: On Francis Street up the hill 32:55 TR: Yes 32:55 DN: Yeah, yeah. Um, there’s still condos there 32:58 TR: Yes. They, it seems like every three years they’re resold [laughs] 33:02 DN: Oh yeah. 33:03 TR: The turnover is just amazing �33:04 DN: Yeah. 33:05 TR: The real estate people made it. They have such a prob- a problem with water. You said you have a Michigan basement, but they kept, there’s clay up there, and it would hold in the water. And actually there’s a stream up there that went down that went down the hill. So they just filled the basement in. Yeah. 33:21 DN: Oh. 33:21 TR: [laugh] 33:22 DN: Wow. 33:24 TR: Just decided it was too hard to keep it. 33:24 DN: Hard to keep it. 33:25 TR: dry type of thing 33:28 DN: yeah. I’m surprised they didn’t have, uh, 33:32 TR: termites and rot 33:33 DN: No. Basement, what do you call that? 33:35 TR: Michigan basement. 33:36 DN: Yeah, but, I, uh, Jim and David next to us too. They’ve got a basement too, but they got uh, to keep their water out. What do you call it? 33:48TR: Sump pump 33:49 DN: A sump pump 33:49 TR: Yeah 33:50 DN: They had that in there 33:50 TR: I think they had those. The, the problem, well, your neighbors have a newer house and it’s poured concrete. 33:58 DN: Yeah. 33:59 TR: That was cinderblock I think, no it was stone. Old stone. 34:04 DN: Oh. �34:05 TR: Just, just to the east of it, and the society has pictures of it, there was a Victorian house. A two story Victorian house 34:12 DN: Oh 34:13 TR: And I forgot what year it, it was torn down. Uh, but that’s where their lawn is. There was actually a house there. 34:20 DN: Oh well. 34:21 TR: And then, yeah. And when they were doing some renovation Forest said they found in there uh, because they rented the rooms when the big steam ships would come in, to dance, to dance at the Pavilion. 34:34 DN: Yeah. 34:35 TR: They would rent the rooms because the people would stay the night or the weekend or something like that. 34:40 DN: Yeah. 34:40 TR: And he found postcards that people were writing about how much they, well, that they they had to get their wardrobe together to come to Saugatuck to go dancing and to meet somebody and 34:54 DN: yeah 34:54 TR: all that type of that. So. 34:56 DN: Yeah, then in the Pavilion later they had the restaurant down stairs 34:58 TR: mhm. 34:59 DN: Remember that 35:00 TR: So you actually were in the Pavilion? 35:03 DN: Oh yes, uh. Yeah they used to have roller skating and dancing 35:06 TR: Really? 35:08 DN: And roller skating 35:09 TR: Ah �35:09 DN: And then uh, later on downstairs they had a restaurant. And that was good food down there. 35:15 TR: ah 35:16 DN: Lot of big boats would come a cruising down there, go eat 35:18 TR: Yes, they would raft off 35:20 DN: And uh, yeah. 35:22 TR: Do you ever remember the um, outdoor theater that they had, open air? That might have been after, uh, before your time 35:31 DN: No 35:33 TR: Yeah, but just down from there, they showed pictures without a building. 35:38 DN: Oh. 35:38 TR: Just a screen and chairs. Yeah. 35:40 DN: Close to the Pavilion there? 35:41 TR: Yeah, it’s close to the Pavilion. 35:45 DN: Well they could have that I forgot it too, because 35:46 TR: Yeah. 35:47 DN: Because at that time too, we weren’t living here. I just come weekends. 35:51 TR: Weekends. 35:52 DN: Sometime, and sometime just for the day, you know. 35:54 TR: Yeah 35:54 DN: And then we didn’t move here til, uh, 35:57 TR: Did they charge at Oval Beach? Back 36:01 DN: No. No then. 36:01 TR: No? �36:02 DN: I don’t think so. 36:03 TR: Ah 36:03 DN: We didn’t have to pay. I don’t think. I don’t remember, but I don’t think so. 36:06 TR: The high way was there to go there. 36:09 DN: The what? 36:10 TR: Uh, they had the uh 36:23 DN: Road to go to the beach? 36:14 TR: Yeah 36:14 DN: Oh yeah. That was there 36:15 TR: Because that, at some point you had to take a boat to go all the way around to it. And then I forget what year they actually built that 36:22 DN: Oh 36:22 TR: That road. That windy road that 36:24 DN: Yeah. I just remember the road going up there. And the road was on both sides. I mean you go and it was on either side 36:31 TR: It was Oval 36:31 DN: But now it’s closed off 36:32 TR: Yeah 36:33 DN: If you remember that part of the road. 36:35 TR: Yeah 36:35 DN: And then uh, yeah. That’s um 36:38 TR: Well, let’s talk about the changes. It’s sort of sad to see the um Presbyterian Camp, there’s now houses. 36:44 DN: Yeah. �36:45 TR: Gated community and north of the channel, that’s going to be houses they’re building, so. 36:49 DN: Yeah. That’s all changed. Yeah. 36:52 TR: The beauty was that you could go to Oval Beach and look North and south and not see a house. 36:56 DN: Yeah 36:57 TR: and you thought, boy this is just as wild as you want. 37:01 DN: And that was nice then. 37:03 TR: Yes 37:DN: And now you get houses and 37:06 TR: I know. And gated communities meaning yeah. You got to come by invitation and 37:11 DN: yeah 37:12 TR: all that. 37:13 DN: yeah 37:14 TR: Which is, unfortunate 37:15 DN: yeah and Gilkamy Gated community is nice now, but it was 37:20 TR: Yes 37:21 DN: More years ago 37:23 TR: Because I’d go out there. Chat with somebody. Lay in the sun 37:27 DN: Yeah. 37:27 TR: You know. And they got to be friends. 37:30 DN: Yeah 37:30 TR: We didn’t go to, I didn’t go to bars, you know, but you eventually got to know people and 37:36 DN: Yeah �37:38 TR: Yeah. And you’d have them for dinners and things like that. 37:41 DN: Yeah. There was more people around then, gay people now. 37:45 TR: As I say, they’re still up there. 37:49 DN: Oh yeah. 37:50 TR: And nude in the dunes 37:51 DN: Oh yeah. 37:51 TR: So that’s pretty good 37:53 DN: Oh there’s still a lot of them here you know. In the bar, you know 37:55 TR: Well that was a fear, you know, if they stop, if they bought Oval Beach and stopped nudity there, which I guess the city would, technically has said that, uh, because if you read the signs, that gay people wouldn’t come here, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. 38:14 DN: No, no. 38:15 TR: Of course we have the, you know in Douglas now, the Dunes 38:19 DN: Yeah, 38:20 TR: uh, Bar. But I’m too old to go to bars, so 38:23 DN: Yeah, me too. I don’t go anymore, you know. 38:26 TR: They say “What’s that old man doing here” and [laughs] 38:28 DN: yeah [laughs]. No. I haven’t been there for a long time. We used to go sometime, and I guess I told just for the Halloween party 38:36 TR: Yes 38:37 DN: To see the costumes and that was kind of nice 38:40 TR: Well Douglas has an amazing parade. 38:42 DN: Yeah 38:44 TR: You know, Halloween �38:44 DN: Halloween too 38:47 TR: Yeah it was nice for a while, and this is now the seventies. Is that, I forget what night. People would bring some kind of food to pass. 38:57 DN: Oh 38:57 TR: And you would buy a drink, and there was all kinds of snacks at the Dunes. 39:00 DN: Oh 39:01 TR: And this is when Carl and Larry owned it. 39:02 DN: Yeah. 39:03 TR: And, um, much more friendly. 39:05 DN: Yeah. 39:06 TR: And of course Carl and Larry already had a restaurant there for a while 39:10 DN: Well, yeah, 39:11 TR: And then yeah. 39:11 DN: Yeah, they had good food at the restaurant. 39:13 TR: And then the tea dances 39:14 DN: Yeah. 39:15 TR: Oh my gosh. [laugh] 39:16 DN: That was kind of fun 39:18 TR: Woah, bumper to bumper people 39:18 DN: We used to go to them 39:20 TR: And I 39:21 DN: yeah 39:21 TR: I was there when Eartha Kitt came. 39:22 DN: Oh �39:24 TR: You know actually Eartha Kitt. The singer. 39:26 DN: Yeah. 39:27 TR: And, uh, she was really fantastic but uh, and I guess, I would imagine they would still have tea dances, but then, you know. 39:33 DN: Yeah, 39:34 TR: Again, I don’t go over there. Yeah. 39:37 DN: Yeah. We used to go once in a while to the tea dance too. That was a big crowd for that 39:43 TR: Yeah. 39:43 DN: mm 39:44 TR: The, um, so, did you ever, did you go away for your sum—for your winters? 39:52 DN: We used to 39:54 TR: go down 39:54 DN: Mother and I before I met Erwin we used to go to, well my folks always went 39:59 TR: Ah. 40:00 DN: In the winter for maybe a month or two. 40:02 TR: Ah 40:02 DN: Sarasota? And then later on 40:05 TR: That’s where we have friends, out of Siesta Key. 40:08 DN: Yeah. That’s nice. Uh, 40:09 TR: Yeah 40:10 DN: And then after she passed away, then course then Erwin and I would go, um, for two, three, four weeks. And later when we retired we would spend almost the whole winter there. 40:20 TR: Ah. �40:21 DN: We’d go and, um, right after Thanksgiving and come back in, uh, April 40:26 TR: Yeah. For 40:28 DN: Marco Island 40:29 TR: For, for everybody describe the cars you—you drive 40:34 DN: [laughs] 40:35 TR: Because everybody who knows you can see you coming. 40:39 DN: Yeah 40:39 TR: And the reason is the, the type of car you have 40:43DN: Yeah 40:44 TR: What year 40:45 DN: Yeah, I don’t, I, um, did I ever show you those pictures of the convertible? 40:50 TR: You did. 40:52 DN: That white one? 40:53 TR: Yeah 40:53 DN: Yeah. Then the hard top Buick, and I think that was in the sixties 40:57 TR: But what year on your Cadillac now? 40:58 DN: This Cadillac 40:59 TR: Yeah 41:01 DN: is a eighty-seven. 41:01 TR: Eighty-seven 41:02 DN: Yeah 41:02 TR: And that’s the one with a fin and really long. 41:04 DN: Yeah. �41:05 TR: Real long 41:06 DN: Yeah. 41:06 TR: You told me you had to convert your garage, an extension in order to get it in. 41:10 DN: Yeah, yeah. What they call (?) garage 41:11 TR: [laugh] the uh, 41:16 DN: Well, I had a Cadillac before that. A couple of them. One brown one. That was a big four door. And then I, that’s when we had the carpenter come in and put the 41:24 TR: Yeah 41:25 DN: Extended the garage, because it wouldn’t fit otherwise. So then this Cadillac too, it makes it perfect, you know. So 41:34 TR: Yeah. Is it beside your property where they had that passage way, so the kids could go to school? They wouldn’t have to walk around the block? 41:44 DN: Yeah. They put a walk through there. 41:46 TR: Little walk way 41:47 DN: Yeah. Just a walkway. And then, uh later on, the city give-- give us and also David and Jim so many feet on the of the lot there. And um, you can’t build on it. 42:07 TR: No 42:08 DN: But we can use it and then the city the kids could use it too. 42:11 TR: ok. 42:12 DN: And then for long time they put a those uh, for the walk way they had, uh, I can’t think of the name of it now. That they put down every year. Then, uh, 42:25 TR: Mulch, I would imagine 42:26 DN: Mulch, yeah. That’s uh, but then it got higher and higher and when the rain, when the water would get there 42:32 TR: Yeah 42:32 DN: it would sit there and collect, you know, and we said once we could cement it, but that wouldn’t be so good. And then David and Jim and I talked to some of the city. We said �“why don’t you just level it all and put in grass? Dirt and grass seed.” That’s fine. Well they agreed to that. And that’s a lot better. 42:51 TR: So there was a lot there? Actually a lot? 42:54 DN: Yeah, a lot. Yeah. 42:54 TR: Oh 42:55 DN: I forget how many feet. Between David and Jim. 42:59 TR: Ok. 42:59 DN: But uh, 43:00 TR: It wasn’t buildable. 43:02 DN: No. When we got it they said you can’t build on it. 43:03 TR: Ok. 43:04 DN: because I think there’s a water pipe that now goes underneath it. 43:06 TR: Oh. Ok. 43:07 DN: Cause we had a lot of water too, you know. Cause of the house in back of David and Jim. They raised the house they raised the house so high. And also the people in back of us. 43:16 TR: Yes 43:17 DN: So when it rained it come right down on us, and our back yard half of it was full of water. 43:22 TR: That’s happening in ours. 43:23 DN: Yeah. 43:24 TR: Where they built the miniature golf thing where Ida Red’s is and 43:26 DN: Yeah. 43:27 TR: it killed all the trees because there’s no natural drainage type of thing. 43:30 DN: Yeah, and I said “I don’t know why the city allowed that” to have them build a house so high, much higher you know �43:37 TR: Yeah 43:37 DN: Than ground level, and, uh, so finally they put in a pipe and sewer 43:42 TR: Yeah. 43:42 DN: On Francis Street. So that helped a lot 43:46 TR: uh huh. 43:47 DN: So we don’t get as much water as before. 43:51 TR: Well your neighborhood has really changed. Houses, 43:54 DN: Oh yeah. 43:54 TR: So many of them torn down 43:55 DN: Torn and rebuilt, yeah. 43:56 TR: and big ones put up, yeah. 43:58 DN: Yeah, it’s quite a change there since when we bought it, you know. 44:03 TR: Yeah. 44:03 DN: Cause at the end, when we bought our house, there was no houses down there. 44:07 TR: Yeah 44:07 DN: At the end, 44:09 TR: Well, from what I understand the very end of your road was an active working farm at one time. You know with a barn, and where, uh, they dammed and there’s that little lake at the bottom of the hill 44:25 DN: Yeah. 44:26 TR: That was a pasture, and the cows would go down there and 44:29 DN: Yeah. 44:30 TR: And, uh, graze and uh come back up to the barn. 44:35 DN: Yeah. Then later onwards they built one, two, three, three houses. �44:43 TR: Yeah. 44:43 DN: Three or four more houses down there. And then 44:47 TR: So you probably remember before the high school then, don’t you, and middle school were built? 44:51 DN: Yeah. 44:51 TR: Up on the hill. 44:52 DN: yeah 44:52 TR: Was that just the farmland or something? 44:56 DN: I think so. It’s all wooded area 44:58 TR: It was wooded 44:58 DN: And uh, and there was a reason I can’t think, they like the road wouldn’t go through either. 45:04 TR: Yeah 45:05 DN: I forgot why 45:07 TR: Well there seems to be a ditch or something 45:08 DN: There’s a- a ditch there, so, but we were glad about that, you know 45:13 TR: Yeah 45:14 DN: They never make a road out of it. 45:15 TR: Yeah you’ve got nice, private road 45:16 DN: Yeah. And uh, the two guys that were carpenters, Doug was one of the guy’s name, they built a couple of those homes 45:26 TR: Yeah 45:26 DN: On the end of our street there. 45:27 TR: Oh yes 45:29 DN: Yeah �45:29 TR: Weirenga (?) yes 45:30 DN: And uh 45:32 TR: Do you ever remember when Upper Spear connected down to, uh, Holland Street? When you actually could drive down to Holland Street, before they closed it off? (pause) Ok. 45:45 DN: No 45:45 TR: I understand at one time you could go down 45:47 DN: Oh yeah. 45:47 TR: to Holland Street straight down Spear 45:51 DN: Oh. No. 45:53 TR: Cause that’s really a steep steep hill. 45:54 DN: Yeah 45:55 TR: Cause I cut down there, once in a while, I go “Woah” [laugh] 45:58 DN: [laugh] No. I don’t remember that. 46:01 TR: Sort of dangerous. Yeah. 46:02 DN: It’s all woods and the stream down back there, you know. And um 46:07 TR: Yeah 46:08 DN: So yeah there’s quite the change on our street. And the people too [laugh] 46:14 TR: Yup, uh, every change, it’s nice to see that people are keeping the quality you know, uh, you know, it’s I- I think. There’s so many people that are renting their houses now. They’re buying in on speculation that they’ll make enough money renting it out in the summer to justify it. So there’s less permanent residents here in Saugatuck. 46:38 DN: Not a lot of them, yeah. 46:40 TR: Which is unfortunate, because you know when it’s a private ownership you tend to take care of it better than 46:45 DN: Yeah �46:45 TR: a rental site 46:46 DN: yeah. I don’t like that idea either. Rental 46:50 TR: Yeah, but you know 46:51 DN: yeah 46:52 TR: That’s I think some of the real estate people really pushed that. 46:55 DN: yeah 46:55 TR: Cause they’ll oversee the renting of it 46:58 DN: yeah and then 46:58 TR: and take a percentage 46:59 DN: And they get so much for that 47:00 TR: But like last weekend, somebody comes up. It’s a weekend. They want to party, and, you know, 47:04 DN: Yeah 47:05 TR: they have the noise and the music and all that, and it’s like—and you know another thing is that, so many of us are retired, I mean their children, if they had children they’re grown. 47:17 DN: Yeah. 47:18 TR: And they’re not here. We still have one of the best school districts, but its fed by more the township 47:23 DN: Yeah. 47:24 TR: Cause they have the younger kids 47:25 DN: Yeah 47:27 TR: and, there are some homes that have children that you see walking 47:30 DN: Yeah 47:30 TR: To school 47:31 DN: Yeah. We used to too. Like the Keys across from us �47:34 TR: Yes! 47:35 DN: Yeah and their kids they go to school 47:37 TR: Yeah 47:37 DN: And then then, uh, the Sheridans 47:40 TR: Yeah 47:41 DN: And the, kids went to school but now, and as far as I know it’s just one that, um, like (?) She rents it out sometime weekends. 47:55 TR: Ah 47:56 DN: She used to rent it out. 47:58 TR: yeah 47:58 DN: I can’t think of her name, and her husband died about a year and a half ago. 48:00 TR: Ah 48:01 DN: He had tongue cancer or something like that 48:03 TR: Ah 48:03 DN: He was only only in his fifties. 48:05 TR: Boy 48:05 DN: And um 48:06 TR: That’s unfortunate 48:07 DN: And they had three or four children. Three boys and one girl, I think 48:08 TR: The, uh, thinking back, when you moved here, did you have reasons to come to Douglas? Other than to go to Oval Beach. You had to come, unless you took the ferry or something. Do you remember what Douglas was like when you first came? 48:27 DN: Yeah. It wasn’t much to it. 48:28 TR: Yeah �48:29 DN: A couple of stores, and it seemed like it didn’t take hold. 48:32 TR: No 48:33 DN: Even though they tried it a couple of times, but not like Saugatuck, you know. 48:36 TR: No. 48:37 DN: And it’s just, oh, there was a couple of stores and this and that, but not much going on, for quite a while. You know. 48:43 TR: Well I sort of trace it back to when Joyce Petter had, the Joyce Petter gallery, lunches and then she had somebody take care of it for a while and then she bought it back, or control of it. And it was the Joyce Petter Gallery, and then she was having problems with, uh, parking and all that. And she bought the, uh, Gray Gables. And she was the first one to, I think, really sink money into Douglas and do that 49:11 DN: Oh 49:12 TR: And then the Marina guys came in, and then 49:14 DN: Little by little, started. Yeah. 49:16 TR: Now it’s been discovered. 49:18 DN: Yeah, oh yeah. 49:19 TR: I mean, jeez 49:20 DN: And some of the guys that were gay they had a store there. 49:22 TR: Yeah. 49:23 DN: Downtown, you know. 49:26 TR: Yeah 49:26 DN: and restaurants and, uh, 49:26 TR: And you know, some of the people I knew that were in Saugatuck sold their houses for some profits and bought lesser things and redid them in Douglas 49:35 DN: Yeah 49:35 TR: So they made- made money and were able to buy things so �49:39 DN: Yeah 49:30 TR: It seems like it changed considerably 49:42 DN: It did it really changed later. There used, they had one good restaurant there on the corner in Douglas and, I can’t think 49:51 TR: I I think there was a buffet, um, like a , yeah. Right right on Center Street. 49:57 DN: yeah 49:58 TR: Of course, what year did Terra stop? Well no, there was a restaurant cause the Petersons bought it. And they had a restaurant. They sold it. I think they still call it the Terra. I’m not sure. Before they built the condos? Yeah 50:11 DN: Um 50:13 TR: It was in the footprint, I think, of the old Terra. Yeah. 50:18 DN: Could be. Yeah, the Coneys used to own it from when we would come there 50:23 TR: Uh huh 50:24 DN: And then they sold it to a younger couple 50:25 TR: Yeah 50:26 DN: And I can’t think of their name. It was in the paper. 50:30 TR: Because 50:31 DN: And then they had a fire 50:32 TR: Ah 50:32 DN: And after that, I can’t remember 50:35 TR: Yeah 50:35 DN: If, whoever bought it or 50:36 TR: Well Eric Peterson 50:38 DN: Peterson maybe �50:38 TR: Invited me to his wedding, and the reception was at, whatever that place was named. You know. Where the condos are built now 50:45 DN: Oh, ok. 50:48 TR: So 50:49 DN: Terra. Yeah. They used to have good foods there when the Coney’s owned it. 50:53 TR: Ah. 50:55 DN: And, uh, when you come, oh, mother and I would come Friday night and we’d always stop there to eat first. 51:02 TR: Yeah. 51:04 DN: And if you weren’t dressed you got in that first room 51:04 TR: Oh 51:04 DN: And if you were dress you got in the front room 51:06 TR: Ah 51:07 DN: that face the channel, you know? 51:09 TR: Yeah. 51:08 DN: And then, but then, we didn’t care cause we, yeah, just come from Kalamazoo 51:13 TR: Sure 51:14 DN: You know, for the weekend. 51:14 TR: Where did you buy your groceries? 51:18 DN: At, uh, Terra, or at uh 51:22 TR: Super—I’m saying what is, what was it called because 51:26 DN: Tafts! 51:27 TR: Tafts 51:27 DN: years ago �51:29 TR: Right then the Super-- and now it’s some other name 51:31 DN: yeah. Now it’s 51:34 TR: Lake something 51:34 DN: Lake Vista, or 51:36TR: Lake Vista 51:36 DN: yeah 51:37 TR: You didn’t bring food, uh, the groceries from Kalamazoo or? 51:40 DN: Oh, oh, we’d bring some. Yeah. 51:41 TR: Some? 51:44 DN: Yeah. Especially if mother made something, you know that lasts a couple days 51:46 TR: Yeah 51:46 DN: Then we’d just take it along. And otherwise if we needed something we’d just go to Taft’s 51:51 TR: Yeah. 51:52 DN: And get it 51:54 TR: Were, were you ever a fisherman? 51:55 DN: No 51:56 TR: No. yeah. 51:56 DN: Go once a while, but that’s it. 51:59 TR: Yeah. Or golfer? 52:00 DN: Huh? 52:01 TR: Golfing? Did you 52:02 DN: No 52:02 TR: No? �52:03 DN: No no 52:04 TR: None of that 52:04 DN: No 52:05 TR: But you did go to bars [laugh] 52:07 DN: Yeah, went to the bars a couple of times 52:08 TR: and danced 52:09 DN: Yeah 52:09 TR: Well that’s recreation 52:11 DN: Yeah. Now, um, 52:14 TR: Do you remember in Saugatuck, they had shuffle board, I guess, by the City Hall? Yeah. Ok 52:20 DN: They could. I don’t remember that either. 52:21 TR: Yeah. 52:22 DN: But they could have 52:23 TR: Yeah. They did. 52:24 DN: Oh, did they? 52:25 TR: Yeah 52:26 DN: Yeah, uh 52:27 TR: Um, and then right back near my house on Butler street they had, uh, they had little miniature golf. They raised it up. For a very short time, but it wasn’t very successful 52:35 DN: Oh. Yeah. 52:37 TR: On Water Street, yeah. 52:38 DN: Oh 52:38 TR: Where, uh, Ida Red’s is. Yeah. �52:41 DN: Ok. Oh yeah. I remember that. I remember that. 52:44 TR: Uh 52:45 DN: Yeah. Golfing 52:46 TR: And boy in my yard, I’d find golf balls all the time. [laugh] 52:50 DN: yeah [laugh] 52:51 TR: They’d over shoot it type of thing 52:53 DN: It wasn’t golf course. It was just (?) golf and 52:55 TR: Miniature golf, yeah. 52:56 DN: Miniature. Yeah. I remember that there. Yeah. 53:00 TR: You-53:00 DN: um 53:01 TR: You never went to any of the musical festivals? That jazz festival that, supposedly, was in Saugatuck? 53:06 DN: Not the jazz, no 53:07 TR: Ok 53:08 DN: I’m not 53:09 TR: yeah. That supposedly was a pretty rowdy thing. You don’t remember the motorcycle gangs from the sixties? 53:16 DN: Oh yeah. Billy’s Boat House. That’s where we used to go too. 53:19 TR: Ah 53:20 DN: They had good wet burritos there. 53:21 TR: Really? 53:23 DN: Yeah yeah 53:23 TR: Ok �53:23 DN: uh, Billy’s Boat House steak was so good there. 53:26 TR: Ah. 53:27 DN: And then they had a motorcycle crowd there. 53:28 TR: Yeah 53:30 DN: And then for a while, we didn’t go because, we were kind of-53:32 TR: Do you remember the rail restaurant? That was 53:34 DN: -- Oh, the Old Rail 53:35 TR: yeah 53:36 DN: sure 53:38 TR: That burned down. I guess they had a grand piano in there? 53:39 DN: Yeah 53:40 TR: And the guy would do entertainment? 53:42 DN: Yeah, I forget his name too, but first two, two ladies owned it. Years ago. 53:45 TR: Ah 53:46 DN: And they had good food 53:47 TR: Ah. 53:48 DN: And then they sold it and then it was, I can’t think of his name. 53:52 TR: Ah 53:53 DN: Then he bought it. And we’d go to the Barn Theater sometime, and then afterwards go there for dessert. 53:59 TR: Ah 54:00 DN: And coffee. And he’d be there and play the piano. 54:02 TR: Uh huh �54:02 DN: That was kind of nice. So. 54:04 TR: Were- were there any negatives about this area that you could think of? Things that disturb you or that you-54:11 DN: Oh, no. It was all pretty good. 54:11 TR: --didn’t like so much? 54:12 DN: No 54:14 TR: Well, I’m glad to hear that. 54:16 DN: Just years ago it was wild on the weekends downtown. Cars would go around the block four or five times you know 54:21 TR: Ah 54:23 DN: And the streets were full and the sidewalks you know 54:25 TR: People showing their cars, showing off their cars. 54:27 DN: Cars just riding around, yeah. 54:29 TR: Ah ha 54:30 DN: and of course, lot of students used to come to and just 54:33 TR: That’s what I understand 54:34 DN: And and there were some families too that just take down signs 54:37 TR: Yeah. 54:37 DN: And break some windows. And for a while it was kind of rough 54:53 TR: And that was the, yeah, college crew and course Travis Randolf was sort of part of that because they had a cottage and he was going to University of Michigan then and his fraternity brothers would come 54:53 DN: come yeah 54:54 TR: and use the house 54:54 DN: yeah, yeah �54:56 TR: Sylvia Randolf his mother accused him of breaking all her, uh (pause) Oak Leaf dishes 55:02 DN: Oh 55:03 TR: Antique oak 55:04 DN: oh yeah 55:06 TR: Travis denies it, but 55:06 DN: Yeah. What was her name again? 55:07 TR: Sylvia Randalf 55:08 DN: Oh yeah. She lives on down there in the yellow house 55:10 TR: Yeah. Yeah. 55:12 DN: Now she was a nice person 55:13 TR: Very much so 55:14 DN: yeah. 55:15 TR: and she lived to a hundred and three. 55:17 DN: yeah. She got quite old 55:17 TR: Yeah 55:18 DN: She liked to entertain. 55:20 TR: Very definitely, and luckily we were part, part of it, but 55:21 DN: yeah. 55:25 TR: really some gracious, uh, meals. The lower part of that house was brought from Singapore. When the river was frozen 55:32 DN: Oh 55:35 TR: way back in eighteen whenever. 55:37 DN: Oh? �55:38 TR: Type of thing 55:38 DN: Oh yeah. 55:38 TR: so it’s, it’s uh, very much a historic house. Uh, type of thing. But Joyce Petter talks about when she would confront the motorcyclists that would park in front of her gallery 55:49 DN: Oh yeah. 55:50 TR: And I’m going to interview her, later on in the week and have her describe, one motorcyclist got so disturbed he drove his motorcycle right into her gallery. 56:01DN: Oh. 56:01 TR: Oh yeah! [laugh] 56:02 DN: Oh I don’t remember that. Oh really? 56:04 TR: Yeah, it probably made the news, but, uh, 56:06 DN: Oh 56:07 TR: Yeah she, she was a chara- is a character. 56:09 DN: yeah 56:10 TR: There’s no doubt about it. 56:11 DN: Yeah 56:12 TR: But 56:12 DN: Yeah, but, uh, now see all that happened before we bought here 56:13 TR: Yeah 56:16 DN: We would just come weekend 56:16 TR: Yes 56:17 DN: Or rent 56:18 TR: Yes 56:18 DN: We would rent downtown �56:20 TR: Yeah. And and, local policeman, from stories I heard is that they, uh, if it got to rowdy they would close, close the city. They would 56:28 DN: Yeah 56:29 TR: So you could not enter the city. 56:30 DN: Yeah. We had that one year too. We, I don’t, we’d come from Holland or so, and on that end there was police there, and we had to show ID and everything 56:40 TR: [laughs] 56:42 DN: That we had a place here 56:42 TR: Ok. Well, strangely enough, when I moved here in seventy-six, I moved here Venetian weekend day 56:47 DN: Oh 56:TR: Moving truck was coming and they stopped and said, “The town’s full. You can’t come in.” And I said to myself, “Oh my gosh. What did I do?” 56:56 DN: Yeah 56:56 TR: [laughs] 56:56 DN: [laugh] 56:57 TR: But I did, you know 56:58 DN: Yeah, yeah. 57:00 TR: Manistee friends love coming to Saugatuck 57:03 DN: Yeah, yeah. 57:03 TR: From 57:04 DN: Then sometime too we’d go to the beach too when we wanted to go, well we couldn’t get in till some cars come out and we go in. 57:09 TR: That happened this summer 57:11 DN: Oh yeah 57:11 TR: My family came �57:12 DN: yeah 57:12 TR: It was backed up all the way on to Park Street 57:16 DN: yeah 57:17 TR: And, uh, they’ve increased the parking space, but, uh, 57:19 DN: Yeah 57:20 TR: Popular. 57:21 DN: Yeah 57:22 TR: There’s no doubt about it. So. Very, uh, but I’ve never so many colorful umbrellas in-57:27 DN: Oh yeah [laugh] 57:29 TR: Just really beautiful. 57:30 DN: Yeah. Yeah. It’s a nice beach, Saugatuck 57:32 TR: There’s no doubt about it. 57:33 DN: Very nice 57:34 TR: Yeah. We are blessed 57:34 DN: Yeah, it’s a nice area. Yeah 57:37 TR: Water sometime this summer was, I think around seventy-two 57:40 DN: Yeah. 57:40 TR: Then the winds would change the currents. 57:41 DN: Yeah. 57:43 TR: And then it would be sixty something. And you go woah, woah. [laugh] 57:46 DN: Change overnight. 57:47 TR: That’s a little cold, yeah �57:48 DN: Yeah. But it was nice. We used to go to the beach a lot, you know? 57:51TR: Yeah. Well 57:52 DN: And sometime we just go sometime for see the sunset. And have 57:57 TR: Oh 57:57 DN: Have our dinner someplace and have dessert sitting on the 58:01 TR: Absolutely 58:02 DN: On the beach there and have our dessert. 58:03 TR: Well, I think it—it’s wonderful that gay people have felt comfortable enough to come here to visit and then to buy homes. 58:12 DN: And yeah 58:13 TR: And and, you know, now some of them have families, they can marry 58:16 DN: yeah 58:16 TR: They can have children now 58:17 DN: yeah 58:19 TR: Adopt them, and, uh, there’s a lot more lesbians moving into the area that find it desirable. 58:26 DN: Yeah 58:27 TR: So, you know, the, the mixture of people have—has continued and hopefully will continue 58:35 DN: yeah 58:36 TR: And the tolerance 58:37 DN: yeah 58:37 TR: And all that 58:37 DN: And the people bored up with it to, you know 58:39 TR: Yeah, and uh �58:50 DN: and, uh like uh, oh I can’t think of his name, that owned East of the Sun. The doctor? 58:45 TR: Yeah 58:46 DN: But a long time ago too, he was talking to some other one 58:50 TR: yeah 58:50 DN: But he said it too, sometime if it wouldn’t be for the gay people he wouldn’t make that much money cause they spent the money 58:54 TR: Yeah 58:55 DN: Where couples didn’t spend that much. 58:56 TR: Yeah 58:56 DN: You know, if they had children 58:58 TR: That is true 58:59 DN: And so 59:00 TR: Had more disposable income 59:02 DN: Yeah 59:02 TR: Very much so, and and as Joyce Petter said they um, Grand Rapids, she lived there. She started the gallery. People just didn’t buy paintings. It was the people of Chicago, Detroit 59:14 DN: Oh. 59:14 TR: and Indianapolis that came up, and they had the disposable income. 59:18 DN: yeah. 59:18 TR: And she, she started a lot of the galleries. They had gift stores 59:23 DN: Yeah 59:24 TR: But not--not fine art 59:24 DN: Yeah �59:25 TR: You know? Craft 59:28 DN: Yeah 59:28 TR: And that stuff, so. 59:29 DN: Now does Joyce Petter still own that gallery? 59:30 TR: Yes 59:32 DN: Oh, ok. 59:33 TR: Yeah. 59:34 DN: I know that 59:34 TR: Yeah, but she rents it out. The one in Saugatuck, uh, I think, er I forget what it’s called 59:40 DN: Frederick’s used to be in there too 59:42 TR: Yeah. 59:43 DN: Yeah 59:45 TR: Yes, but of course she has the one in Douglas, the, uh, Petter gallery there. 59:50 DN: Yeah, the big one 59:51 TR: Which they 59:51DN: On the high way 59:52 TR: Converted part of it to a wine shop. 59:54 DN: Oh 59:55 TR: Type of thing. Yeah, but uh, the other part is still a gallery. 59:59 DN: Yeah 1:00:00 TR: So it’s refreshing to I, I’m putting words in your mouth, that being gay has been a very good thing for you that, to have a home here 1:00:11 DN: yeah. �1:00:13 TR: Yeah, uh, and, uh, Erwin would have agreed with you. 1:00:18 DN: Yeah. Oh yeah. He liked it here too, and 1:00:20 TR: Yeah 1:00:21 DN: And, uh, we had a lot of good times here. 1:00:23 TR: Yeah. 1:00:24 DN: And, uh, a lot of our friends would come up from Chicago too, for the weekend, so 1:00:27 TR: Oh, absolutely, 1:00:29 DN: Yeah 1:00:30 TR: Well, can you think of anything else you might, closing remarks, or 1:00:33 DN: No 1:00:35 TR: Anything like that? 1:00:37 DN: I think we covered most of it, I think 1:00:37 TR: I think we did 1:00:39 DN: so yeah 1:00:39 TR: We had, we got, uh 1:00:41DN: yeah 1:00:42 TR: The, uh, the Blue Tempo again, uh, 1:00:45 DN: yeah 1:00:46 TR: Uh, did they have any exotic drinks there? From that period? Cause, you know, in my college days I remember the Blue Motorcycle and Singapore Sling and 1:00:55 DN: Oh 1:00:57 TR: Those horrible mixed drinks 1:00:57 DN: Mixed drinks yeah. They might have, 1:00:59 TR: Yeah �1:01:00 DN: But I don’t remember any of them, yeah. I, well, once in a while I’d get a beer, but otherwise 1:01:04 TR: Yeah. 1:01:05 DN: I’d try to just to get, uh, just a vodka and tonic 1:01:06 TR: That sounds good enough 1:01:08 DN: Yeah. Beer was all right, but it filled me up, so 1:01:10TR: Ah 1:01:11DN: I don’t know why, one beer, yeah, it bloated me, so 1:01:13 TR: Well, they obviously had a restroom there I would imagine so if you got 1:01:16 DN: Yeah 1:01:17 TR: Too filled [laugh] 1:01:17 DN: So if I got a drink I could nurse that all evening. One drink or drinks, you know 1:01:21TR: Ah. Yeah. 1:01:22DN: So that was ok 1:01:23 TR: They probably make more money on a mixed drink, anyway 1:01:25DN: Yeah 1:01:26TR: Well thank you very much for, uh, giving your time and recording this, uh, you know, uh, you’ve certainly filled me in more about the area so Interview ends 1:01:37 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History Description An account of the resource Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1910s-2010s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Various Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a> Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Douglas (Mich.) Michigan, Lake Allegan County (Mich.) Beaches Sand dunes Outdoor recreation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saugatuck-Douglas History Center Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Text Language A language of the resource English Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-07_SD-NewmeyerD-20181010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Newmeyer, Duane Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-10-10 Title A name given to the resource Duane Newmeyer (Audio interview and transcript), 2018 Description An account of the resource Duane Newmeyer describes his young adulthood in Saugatuck and Chicago as he met his husband Erwin. Considerable discussion of time in the dunes and at the Blue Tempo. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Reyda, Ted (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Michigan Saugatuck (Mich.) Allegan County (Mich.) Gay men Sexual minorities Oral history Audio recordings Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Documenting the Histories of Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas, Kutsche Office of Local History Relation A related resource Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/80fafbfa85c3629a99e3ff6dfdfa6d8e.mp4 c0fd8a128e8c087ed9e30825f10c4b9a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4902b722bcd9f74bd3cb033fe006404c.pdf 212af401e895608771f6bbcff83a185f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Donald Newton (00:59:50) (0:00:20) Pre-Enlistment • • • • • • Graduated High School in 1942 at 16 years old. Put to work on NRA project before enlistment (0:01:16) Father had own business during Great Depression- a gas station Didn’t follow World War II before Pearl Harbor Got accepted into Navy three days before 18th birthday. Preferred the Navy because he was told conditions were better than in the Army Joined the Navy because he went to the movies and saw people with legs and arms missing, and he figured that in the Navy he had better chance at this not happening (0:08:10) Training • • They went to Great Lakes Naval Station in Chicago, then to Navy Pier where he learned different types of engines. He then went to Navy Submarine School in New London, Connecticut. (0:09:10) While he was there he was in Spritz’s Navy. He considers this tougher than the Marine Corps. They had to perform many different tests which eliminated many men very quickly. About 1 in 10 men were accepted into the submarine corp. Eye tests, coordination tests, and other tests were given to the men. (0:11:55) Active Duty • • • • • • • After training, was assigned to Manitowoc Shipbuilding Company in Manitowoc, Wisconsin. They built submarines there. While the USS Icefish was being built, he went to school to learn about submarines. (0:13:15) Ship went through Chicago River on a barge, then down the Mississippi River. He met the ship in New Orleans, and was on leave while the boat was en route. Proceeded though Panama Canal and then were bombed for first time. (0:13:45) Was in forward engine room when this happened. Ship was travelling on surface. They were bombed by American aircraft. Pilot of Aircraft made error. 53 American subs were lost during the war years Was a good feeling for him to be underwater, he said it was like being in a whale. (0:17:25) Sailors had to get used living conditions. (0:18:15) During the first encounter with Japanese, a depth charge attack drove them to exceed crush depth by 100 feet, which was a very dangerous situation for crew of the sub. He was not able to talk about this experience until recently, and �• • • • • • • • • • • was unable to do interviews because of it. He considers himself to be very lucky to be alive. When he was discharged, was told to go home and forget everything, and to not accept interviews by the Navy. The USS Icefish sprang 231 leaks after depth charges. They sank to point of sub creaking. They were down very deep. He had to fix the leaks in the engine room during this process. He does not remember being afraid, just saying “They’re trying to kill us!” All of the leaks were stopped in less than two minutes, and they were able to get to neutral buoyancy, and they had to wait for surface to be clear. They were hit directly several times, and were forced to use salad oil in hydraulics on way to Pearl Harbor to repair. He remembers the sounds. When a depth charge hit water, sound man would yell “splash” and then they could hear the detonator on the depth charges click right before the explosions. Destroyers looked for subs with sound gear. 72 men and 10 officers were on the ship. There were three watches, and two officers mess cooks. (0:27:17) Twenty percent of the crew changed with each run. He was transferred once to Relief Control 42, but this was only on paper. Ended up staying with the Icefish. Really liked the Australian people. They had Sunday dinners when they were in Perth with a family. (0:32:55) They spent time in different ways. They did 4 hours in and 8 hours off. They could do different things, he studied in his spare time, became officer. He could have been a first class officer, but instead decided to return to Grand Rapids, MI to help his father with his filling station. (0:34:50) His station on the surface job was to load the 40mm gun on the top of the sub. In one instance, a plane had spotted some lifeboats. A small Japanese ship had tried to get the men in the lifeboats, and when they saw the sub they retreated to shore. Guns on the shore attempted to aim at the sub, but the aim was too low. They were ordered to not harass Japanese fishing ships unless they had contraband. They sunk a troop ship with 6000 Japanese, and he saw many different troops jump off the ship. The Japanese depth charged them anyway, likely killing more Japanese soldiers than doing any damage to their sub (0:44:30) They were told to proceed directly to Pearl Harbor once the war had ended and the peace treaty was signed in Tokyo. When they reached Pearl Harbor, they were told to proceed directly to San Francisco. (0:45:30)After the war, they were sent to San Diego to train the sonar people. (0:47:30) Post-Service • • • • He decided to come home from the service after his father had a heart attack He was told by the Navy not to talk about their experiences until the 1970s when the information was declassified. He kept in touch with some of the people on his ship. He took over the station. He got married when he was 29 years old. �• • • He worked as engineering company in Cedar Rapids, Iowa Then worked for an appliance store, then owned a mobile home park, and then worked for the Postal Service. He enjoyed his time in the Navy, and he says that it prepared him for the future well. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NewtonD Title A name given to the resource Newton, Donald (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Newton, Donald Description An account of the resource Donald Newton was born in Grand Rapids, MI and graduated from high school at age 16. When he was eligible, he joined the Navy and did basic training at Great Lakes Naval Station. He then moved to submarine training at New London, CT. He was then assigned to the USS Icefish and patrolled the Pacific Ocean, making attacks on various different Japanese vessels. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Montagna, Douglas (Interviewer) Great Lakes Naval Memorial & Museum (Muskegon, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-09-29 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3d66866f473482b203c5574351c34f63.jpg 902686910da0c24d315b9e65b6293be8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. PS3503 R26 G36 1910 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0467 Title A name given to the resource The Gang: A Tale of the Middle West Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource NFB (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of The Gang: A Tale of the Middle West, by Fred Brasted, published by The Griffith & Rowland Press, 1910. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1910 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6d2403dc0aa80bedcc4992266a015932.m4v a94020c5b3a3bcb330216b978617054f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/95ccbbb6df4750fdc8558244bc30f3e3.pdf d69df5acb2c3d28ee67b5ea2cfd2c11b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam War Che Nguyen (43:42) Introduction (00:20)      Che was born in the capital city of Hanoi in Vietnam in 1940. Growing up his family worked as farmers. When he was a child, he lived in the French controlled area. He spent twelve years in school, and graduated high school. After high school, Che joined the Army. (02:29) Like many other Vietnamese kids, he felt that he had to do something for his country. He joined the Army in 1962. Military (03:00)        Upon joining, he chose to go to officer training school, which lasted one year. There he learned how to lead and fight with different units and learned about the different ranks. After school he graduated as a lieutenant. He was stationed with the 46th Regiment located in the center of Vietnam. At that time, the Viet Cong and the NVA (North Vietnamese Army) were very strong. The NVA and Viet Cong would often hide in the high mountains and in the jungle. Che served with that unit for four years, from 1962 – 1966. After that he was discharged from the Army. Second Enlistment (06:57)            He then lived in Saigon and worked as a teacher. Che worked as a teacher for about one year. In 1968, after the Tet Offensive, he rejoined the Army. He was in Saigon when the Tet Offensive began. (8:42) His new unit was stationed around Saigon, and he served as the company executive officer in a combat unit. (10:16) His unit was involved in many battles. When his unit was fighting, they had new weapons that were similar to those being used by the American units. He only remembers one battle, which was his last. He rejoined the Army in 1968 and stayed in until 1975. (12:34) In his last battle, at An Xuan Loc, he was the Battalion Commander. When he fought the NVA and the VC, his unit was very successful and won many times. �              After 1968, the NVA and VC were drawn out into the cities, so they did not have to fight in the mountains or in the jungles. (15:03) Che was promoted to Battalion Commander in 1972, at the battle of Au Loc, after his commander was killed. His battalion took the airfield in [Quan Long], afterwards a Lieutenant General awarded him a Bronze Star with V. (16:47) The men who served under him were good soldiers who fought very well. Towards the end of the war, his unit had difficulties getting supplies, sometime after 1973. The United States promised supplies to the South Vietnamese Army but Congress would not approve, so they went without. (18:50) In his last battle, they fought for twelve days. They defeated three divisions of NVA there. Che and his men destroyed 37 T-54 and PT-76 tanks that were being used by the NVA. (20:32) Che only had one division of men versus the three divisions from the North, and yet the South won the battle. The North had far better supplies than the South. His battalion held the mountain called Che Mountain, with an artillery battery of 155mm. They needed to stop the attack from the north. They were attacked from all sides, and were attacked all day long, but they could not break through Che’s lines. (22:52) At night, they sent Sappers to infiltrate his lines. In the end, the NVA realized they couldn’t win the battle or take the position, so they decided to go around. (24:51) When the NVA changed their plan, Che was ordered to abandon An Xuan Loc and moved back to protect Bien Hoa. They remained there until the war ended. Prison Camp (26:00)           After the surrender of the South to the North, the men were ordered to stop fighting and go home. Che arrived home and was later arrested by the NVA and put in prison. (26:19) He was home for about a month before the NVA came for him. The prison camp was separated by rank, he was with the majors. He was transferred many times. The treatment that he was given while at the camp was very bad. (28:39) The re-education camps were used for revenge against the South. They were told they were just puppets for South Vietnam. Che was forced to perform hard labor, including going into the jungle to cut timber, plowing fields and farm work (31:16) The prisoners were not given enough food, and were always very hungry. He would get a bowl of rice once a week; his family was able to send food later on. He never had any contact with the people who lived around the camp. (32:49) Che also did not receive any medical care while there. If someone would get sick, there was no medicine available for the person. Many of the prisoners died while being held there. At least 8-10 men died that he knew. (34:00) �Released from Camp/Civilian Life after the War (34:23)      Che was there for five years, and was released with a group of other prisoners. He was married in 1968, and he had three children. While in prison, his wife had to manage the family and care for the children by herself. Che feels that he was treated worse than some of the other prisoners because he was an officer that fought for the south. Once released from prison, he began working as a tailor. (36:25) Che had many troubles with the local police, every week he had to report to the local police as to what he did everyday. He did this for three years. After the three years, he was only required to report in every two weeks, then once a month and finally they forgot about him. Coming to the United States (37:40)        He found out that he could go to the United States through a military program, so he applied and waited about two years before he was approved and could leave Vietnam. They left Vietnam in 1992 and went to Detroit, Michigan. The family chose Detroit because Che had a friend that sponsored him to come. Che brought his entire family with him. (39:42) Adjusting to the United States was very easy, because of the many opportunities to find a job and educational opportunities for his children. Learning English was the hardest part. Looking back to his military service, from 1969-1972 he went on many missions with the United States Army. (41:30) Che also had military advisors attached to his unit. He had a good relationship with those Americans. When he arrived in America, Che began working as a painter. Today, two of his children graduated from university and two graduated from college. One lives in Florida, one lives in Chicago and the other two live with him in Detroit. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NguyenC0603V Title A name given to the resource Nguyen, Che (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nguyen, Che Description An account of the resource Che was born in Hanoi, Vietnam in 1940. After graduating from high school, he joined the army so that he could serve his country. He was sent to officer training school and graduated as a lieutenant. He served in the army from 1962 – 1966. After the Tet Offensive in 1968, Che decided to rejoin the army. He was sent to many towns and villages surrounding Saigon, and later fought in the battle of An Xuan Loc as a battalion commander. After the war ended, Che spent five years in a prison camp for his military involvement. He moved with his family to the United States in 1992 and settled in Detroit, Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, Vietnamese Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, Vietnamese Vietnam (Republic) Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-07-03 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/53a2a803fce2176f53ca487c661d842b.mp4 d3d1604d0861cfed40c5acc09c086265 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e76177ea4def18bd34b885844a2d4c28.pdf c73007aafd78b61e31a42d42ca964415 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Vietnam War Luc Nguyen Interview Length: (00:57:26:00) Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:18:00)  Nguyen’s father originally lived in the northern part of Vietnam but following the August Revolution in 1955, he had to move to the southern part of Vietnam because he was a member of the Nationalist Party; many of Nguyen’s father’s comrades within the party were captured and killed by communists (00:00:18:00) o When he moved south, Nguyen’s father moved to Saigon, where he met and married Ngueyn’s mother (00:01:04:00) o In 1948, Nguyen’s father became a member of the Vietnamese National Army, which was a newly-established army (00:01:48:00)  At the time, the French Army still remained in Vietnam and assisted in training the soldiers in the Vietnamese National Army (00:01:49:00) o Nguyen's father received his discharge from the Army in 1954 (00:02:01:00)  After Vietnam divided into two states, Nguyen’s father worked to bring his family from North Vietnam into South Vietnam with his Army unit (00:02:19:00) o Still, it was a relatively peacefully time, so Nguyen’s father was given his discharge from the Army to become a farmer, although he had to rent the land he worked on (00:02:37:00)  Nguyen grew up on the farms where his father worked, growing rice (00:02:53:00) o Growing up, Nguyen attended public schools from elementary until high school before studying mathematics and general physics at the University of Saigon in 1966 (00:03:50:00)  At the time, Nguyen and his father supported President Diem but after Diem died, Nguyen and his father no longer supported the military government; therefore, in 1966, Nguyen did not have a desire to join the South Vietnamese military because he did not respect the generals leading the Army (00:04:23:00)  At that time, Nguyen and his family knew that the international communists wanted to promote Communism all over the world (00:05:30:00) o Through his relatives who had escaped from the North, Nguyen knew about the Viet Minh; as well, his mother was originally from the Mekong Delta area and when Nguyen’s family would visit his mother’s family, they would see communists in the Delta who were very brutal (00:05:47:00)  The communists in the Delta made everyone fear them; if someone did not fear them, then the communists would visit the person at night and would either kill or capture the person (00:06:11:00)  During 1966 and 1967, Nguyen was in Saigon, so he saw many American soldiers there and although he did not like their presence in his country, Nguyen knew that the South Vietnamese needed the soldiers there (00:06:55:00) o Still, the Americans soldiers treated the local Vietnamese very well (00:07:29:00) �  During the North Vietnamese’s Tet Offensive in 1968, Nguyen witnessed a lot of fires and smoke all over the city as well as dead North Vietnamese soldiers laying on the ground (00:07:48:00) o At night, the North Vietnamese would launch rockets into the city, destroying buildings and houses, as well as killing a lot of people (00:08:20:00) o Nguyen felt bad about this and it helped him decided to enlist in the South Vietnamese Army (00:08:30:00)  However, Nguyen was allowed to keep going to school because he was the only son in his family and his parents were both over sixty years of age (00:08:44:00) After he enlisted, Nguyen spent four years at the National Military Academy, which was divided between two “seasons”; during the nine month “study season”, Nguyen he learned mathematics, science, military technology, and history while during the two-anda-half “military season”, Nguyen trained in military combat (00:09:05:00) o Most of the schedule used at the Academy was borrowed from the American’s West Point Military Academy and there were numerous American advisors at the Academy who came from both West Point and the Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland (00:10:06:00) o Although combat turned out to be different from what Nguyen was taught at the Academy, basic things were still the same (00:10:36:00)  Some Vietnamese Army officers had been in combat and they taught the students at the Academy (00:10:50:00) Deployment (00:11:06:00)  Nguyen completed his studies at the National Military Academy and joined the Army as another major North Vietnamese offensive was beginning to wind down; Nguyen ended up taking part in only a single battle from the offensive (00:11:06:00)  At first, Nguyen was assigned to be a reconnaissance platoon leader in a scout company in the 25th Infantry Division (00:12:00:00) o Within Nguyen’s platoon, there were three teams who would be dropped in the jungle to look for the enemy and gather information about them (00:12:30:00)  The first time Nguyen was in combat, the province where the fighting took place was largely jungle and when Nguyen and his soldiers went into the area, they were scared because a large communist unit was the area (00:12:59:00) o Fortunately, Nguyen and his soldiers did not find the communist unit and the communist unit did not find Nguyen and his soldiers (00:13:22:00) o Sometimes, Nguyen and his soldiers deployed by helicopter but most of the time, they had to walk into an area because after the Paris Treaty, the war slowed down (00:13:36:00)  In the beginning of 1974, Nguyen became the commander of an infantry company in 2nd Battalion, 46th Brigade, although it was still in the 25th Infantry (00:14:13:00) o A standard infantry company was supposed to have one hundred and sixty-one members but a scout company had one hundred and twenty-seven members; when Nguyen joined his new infantry company in 1974, the company had a full complement of soldiers (00:14:41:00) �    o However, the fighting Nguyen faced with the infantry company was different than what he experienced with the scout company; with the infantry company, they were fighting against much larger enemy units (00:15:08:00)  In the scout company, the soldiers were just looking for intelligence about the enemy (00:15:22:00) On some occasions, the scout company was placed into situations where it required the entire company and Nguyen remembers on one occasion in January 1974, the company was in a camp when the enemy brought an entire regiment to attack them (00:15:57:00) o Nguyen was wounded for the first time during this fighting (00:16:38:00) o During the battle, another South Vietnamese unit reinforced the scout company, which was fighting the entire enemy regiment by itself (00:16:57:00) o By this time, the South Vietnamese were not receiving any air or artillery support from the Americans, who had left; when he came out of the field, Nguyen saw that all the American support was gone (00:17:14:00)  Nguyen only saw a B-52 bombardment two or three times but that was the extent of it (00:17:28:00)  Nevertheless, Nguyen managed to receive support from South Vietnamese units, who had taken over the roles of the Americans (00:17:45:00) Most of the soldiers within Nguyen’s units were from all over South Vietnam, although there were a few from the North (00:18:05:00) o The ages of the soldiers range from eighteen year olds to soldiers who were in their thirties (00:18:32:00) o Only a few of the soldiers actually wanted to be in the Army but because it was war time, all the soldiers needed to be in the military (00:18:51:00) Nguyen’s soldiers did have contact with local Vietnamese civilians but in the three years he was in combat, Nguyen and his units very rarely went back to a base; when he was commander of the infantry company, Nguyen returned to base one time to check on supplies for the company (00:19:14:00) Around the time Nguyen took command of his infantry company, the communists began increasing their attacks, forcing Nguyen’s soldiers to fight all the time (00:20:20:00) o Nguyen remembers that in one year, he and his soldiers went on between ten and twenty individual combat operations, which was a high number (00:20:39:00) o However, not too many of Nguyen’s soldiers became casualties; Nguyen recalls that around twenty of his soldiers were casualties (00:21:24:00)  One time, when three soldiers were killed, it was considered a large number of casualties (00:21:37:00) o While Nguyen was in command of the company, the fighting varied; sometimes, the communists would attack Nguyen’s company and sometimes, Nguyen’s company would look for the enemy (00:21:56:00) o The enemy soldiers were armed with Kalashnikov rifles, grenade launchers, 107 mm and 122 mm rocket launchers, and 130 mm howitzers; the enemy had an entire artillery regiment of howitzers (00:22:06:00)  On the other hand, Nguyen believes that his soldiers had better weapons than the enemy soldiers; as well, Nguyen’s soldiers also had more ammunition than the enemy (00:22:44:00) �   However, after the Paris Treaty, the American military aid was reduced, forcing Nguyen and his soldiers to conserve every bullet and every piece of equipment (00:23:17:00)  When the enemy launched their final offensive, they had upgrade their weaponry to include SAMs (Surface-to-Air Missiles) and TOWs (AntiTank missiles) (00:24:01:00)  Although Nguyen and his soldiers also had access to TOW missiles, they did not use them because the missiles were too expensive; on the other hand, the enemy were able use TOWs everywhere and not just against tanks but also against South Vietnamese soldiers (00:24:24:00) o On some occasions, Nguyen and his soldiers worked with South Vietnamese armored forces and in June 1974, when the enemy launched an attack, Nguyen’s larger unit included a company of ten armored vehicles (00:24:49:00)  However, the armored vehicles were only able to stay in one location because the soldiers did not have the fuel necessary to move them to different locations (00:25:33:00) o At one point, the North Vietnamese occupied the 22nd National Highway and although Nguyen does not know the exact number of North Vietnamese units that were there, it took his entire battalion to re-open the highway (00:26:24:00)  During the re-taking of the highway, Nguyen’s company was designated a ten kilometer section of the highway and the soldiers had to fight the North Vietnamese forces in that section (00:26:43:00)  The land on both sides of the highway was largely rubber plantations and Nguyen and his soldiers had to fight the North Vietnamese positioned in the plantations (00:27:02:00) o During this time, the soldiers in Nguyen’s company did their jobs well; all the soldiers knew that they had to fight because if they did not fight, then they were going to die (00:27:31:00)  Although a few soldiers did desert from the unit, the vast majority stayed to fight (00:27:55:00) o During the fighting, Nguyen did not know what was going on in the other parts of the country because he did not have access to newspapers or radios (00:28:23:00) o On several occasions, superior officers visited Nguyen’s unit to relay orders, after which Nguyen would have to address his soldiers about what they needed to do (00:28:48:00) o In this period, the soldiers had some supplies, but not a lot; their food supplies consisted of a small amount of dried food, so the soldiers had to cook rice (00:29:31:00) The first time he was wounded, Nguyen’s unit was in a base that came under a mortar attack; when he stood to guide his own 82 mm mortars, an enemy mortar round exploded behind him, sending two pieces of shrapnel into Nguyen (00:30:19:00) o However, the shrapnel wounds were minor injuries and Nguyen returned to his unit rather quickly (00:31:06:00) When the North Vietnamese launched their final major offensive in 1975, Nguyen had just led his company in the re-taking of the 22nd National Highway (00:31:32:00) �o However, Nguyen himself was in the hospital because a wound sustained from a rocket launched out of Cambodia (00:31:54:00)  As Nguyen was standing, he heard the sound of the rocket approaching, so he laid down and the rocket exploded about ten meters away from where Nguyen laid (00:32:08:00)  Although Nguyen laid down, his helmet was still high and debris from the explosion hit Nguyen’s helmet, breaking the helmet and knocking Nguyen unconscious; Nguyen also received a shoulder injury but the injury was not as serious (00:32:21:00) o Nguyen spent more than a month in the hospital going through surgery for the injuries to his head; only a small piece of shrapnel went into his head but another piece went into Nguyen’s ear (00:32:56:00)  Nguyen stayed at the hospital and waited to go in front of the medical committee, who would decide whether or not he could return to combat (00:33:30:00)  When the war ended, Nguyen was still in the hospital (00:33:50:00) Post-War Life / Reflections (00:34:05:00)  When the war ended, Nguyen went home because when the communists came to the hospital where Nguyen was staying, they ordered everyone to leave; Nguyen saw wounded soldiers wrapped in badges unconsciously riding in a pedal-taxi (00:34:05:00) o While in the hospital, Nguyen overheard a conversation that the communists could kill anybody who could not get out of the hospital (00:34:34:00) o Once out of the hospital, Nguyen went home to see his family and going to the Mekong Delta to see his mother, which was where the communists captured him and placed him into a re-education camp (00:34:56:00)  When Nguyen first left the hospital, the communists knew who he was but they did not care at that time (00:35:29:00)  The communists arrested Nguyen because at that time, if Nguyen had stayed home until June, he would have been fine but because it was in May, he did not have to proper paperwork (00:35:38:00)  Everyone who was a former South Vietnamese soldier was captured by the communists if he tried to go somewhere (00:36:19:00)  When the communists first captured Nguyen, they brought him a camp along the Mekong River, where Nguyen stayed for eleven months; while in the camp, Nguyen and the others received an education about communism and were also labeled as “betrayers” and “American servants” (00:36:43:00) o The communists also wanted Nguyen to confess to something criminal that he had done but what Nguyen and the others described was not criminal, so the communists did not believe them (00:37:43:00) o After eleven months, Nguyen and the others were moved to another camp and at the new camp, Nguyen had to work (00:38:10:00)  Although Nguyen mostly dug canals, some of the prisoners had to clear mines while others had to build barracks and get supplies for the communist forces (00:38:35:00) �  o While in the camps, the prisoners did not have enough food and the did not receive any medical care from the communists; however, the prisoners were able to grow a few vegetables alongside their barracks (00:39:17:00)  In 1977, Nguyen’s family was able to begin visiting him and when they visited every three months, Nguyen’s family brought food with them for Nguyen (00:39:49:00)  Nguyen had married in 1973 and he and his wife had a daughter; while Nguyen was in the re-education camp, his wife lived with her family (00:40:04:00) o In the second camp Nguyen was sent to, the prisoner population included not only soldiers but regular criminals and political prisoners as well; the regular criminals were treated differently than the soldiers and political prisoners (00:41:03:00)  The former soldiers helped each other but the regular criminals did not have help from anyone (00:41:27:00) o While out on the work projects for the camp, Nguyen rarely had contact with the civilian population in an area; although Nguyen saw the civilians, the communists did not allow the prisoners to have contact with the civilians (00:42:13:00)  Nguyen remembers when he and the other prisoners moved from one camp to another in the back of a truck, someone rode alongside the truck on a motorbicycle asking where the prisoners had come and where they were going, as well as throwing some food for the prisoners (00:42:47:00) o Nguyen was finally released from the prisoners in February 1982, almost seven years after he was first captured (00:43:43:00)  Nguyen believes the reason the communists released him was form international pressure; at some point, Nguyen heard about the negotiations between the United States and Vietnam over the prisoners (00:43:59:00) After he was released from prisoners, it was almost another eight years until Nguyen immigrated to the United States (00:44:26:00) o During those eight years, Nguyen continued living with his family and working in various jobs, including producing clothing and rubber bands (00:44:34:00) o After Nguyen was initially released, local officials made trouble for him because they knew he was a political prisoner; however, Nguyen’s wife bribed the officials, making Nguyen’s life easier (00:45:07:00) o The products Nguyen and his family produced were legal but when they wanted to sell them, it was illegal because they could only sell their products to the government; however, there was no profit in selling to the government, so they tried to sell them on their own (00:45:33:00)  However, if the government caught them trying to sell the products, then the government could confiscate all the products (00:45:34:00) o During this time, it was hard for Nguyen and his family to survive than before the communists came (00:46:54:00) In 1985, Nguyen’s uncle who lived in the United States sent Nguyen a letter, letting Nguyen know about the negotiation between the United States and Vietnam and expressing hope that Nguyen and his family would immigrate to the United States, with Nguyen’s uncle as their sponsor (00:47:07:00) o Nguyen finally left Vietnam in February 1993 (00:47:38:00) �   o When Nguyen tried to emigrate, officials from the Vietnamese government required Nguyen to fill out paperwork as well as pay some money, although Nguyen does not remember the amount; before Nguyen’s family even got an interview, they had to spend money (00:48:07:00) o Once Nguyen left Vietnam, he flew directly to Michigan because his uncle was living in Michigan (00:48:55:00)  While in high school and in the prison camp, Nguyen learned some English, although he did not study any English while at the military academy (00:49:17:00)  When Nguyen immigrated to the United States, he brought five members of his family: himself, his wife, his daughter, and two sons (00:49:48:00)  After about five months in the United States, Nguyen managed to get a job working as a lathe machine operator (00:50:01:00) o In Nguyen’s mind, the most important thing he had to do was support his children and help them to become good citizens, so he helped send them to college, with one in medical school and one in law school (00:50:41:00) o The most difficult thing for Nguyen to learn in the United States was what to say because some Americans spoke too fast for him and then he had to take time to try and understand what they had said (00:51:23:00) o When he arrived in the United States, Nguyen saw that the Americans were goodhearted and they helped Nguyen and his family when they arrived (00:51:52:00) If given the opportunity, Nguyen would return to Vietnam to visit but so long as the communists are there, he would never go back (00:52:10:00) The experience that Nguyen always remembers the most about his time as a soldier was the battle of Thai Neigh (00:52:55:00) o During the fighting, the North Vietnamese sent two divisions, including artillery and armored units but the South Vietnamese only had a single brigade and two local battalions in the town (00:53:11:00) o The battle lasted for ten days and although the fighting was very hard for the South Vietnamese soldiers, they were successful in their defense of the city (00:53:45:00) o In this battle alone, Nguyen saw that at least one hundred North Vietnamese soldiers died (00:54:13:00) o After the ten days, the North Vietnamese forces withdrew and the South Vietnamese intelligence let the soldiers know that a North Vietnamese general had been killed in the fighting, which caused the withdrawal (00:54:34:00) Nguyen wants it to be known that the Vietnamese appreciated the assistance provided by the Americans during the war (00:56:15:00) o However, Nguyen also feels that the decision by the Kennedy Administration to remove President Diem led to the collapse of the South Vietnamese (00:56:28:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NguyenL Title A name given to the resource Nguyen, Luc (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nguyen, Luc Description An account of the resource Luc Nguyen's father escaped from North Vietnam when he was a young man and following his service in the South Vietnamese Army (ARVN), became a farmer. Nguyen himself grew up on the farms where his father worked before attending the University of Saigon. Having witnessed things during the 1968 Tet Offensive, Nguyen decided to enlist and spent several years at the National Military Academy. Once he completed his time at the academy, Nguyen became a platoon leader in a scout company before taking command of his own infantry company. Eventually, during the North Vietnamese Army's final offensive, Nguyen received wounds from a rocket explosion and while he was in the hospital, the war ended. After the war, Nguyen spent several years in re-education camps before his release. Following his release, Nguyen and his family spent several years in Vietnam before immigrating to the United States in 1993. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, Vietnamese Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, Vietnamese Vietnam (Republic) Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-01-22 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d4e5285cefb4094a0c90624f77d94b50.mp4 d5aee7e417fde9d15dd3dc52e1f5da92 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9a09121924534b85e6ca32b2ea74bf7d.pdf f0f489f4eb30d8df88d9f803ab7bb2ad PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Vietnam War / Post-Vietnam Era Trinh Nguyen Interview Length: (01:10:02:00) Early Life (00:00:19:00)  Born in 1941 in a rural village in the Mekong Delta of South Vietnam (00:00:19:00)  Nguyen grew up in the rural part of the country with his parents and grandparents, who made their living by planting rice; his family’s lives were not prosperous but they were okay (00:00:32:00) o One of Nguyen’s cousins eventually went to Saigon to study and become an engineer while his other cousin went to France to study; Nguyen’s aunt was a landlord, meaning she had money to send both cousins to school (00:00:55:00)  During the time Nguyen lived in the rural country, the Vietnamese were fighting with the French, meaning the villagers needed security for their homes (00:01:34:00) o Nguyen began going to school in 1949, when the French set up an outpost near their village to take care of security (00:01:54:00) o Nguyen and most of the other children in the village ended up going to the school at the outpost, which was about two kilometers away from the village; the children walked there everyday and some other children in the school had to walk farther (00:02:14:00)  Everyone had to walk to go to places because, at that time, they had no means of communication or transportation (00:02:37:00) o Nguyen went to the French school for four years before going to My Tho for high school, where he lived with his uncle-in-law (00:03:07:00)  Nguyen was too young to remember any of the fighting between the Viet Minh and the French, partly due to there not being any form of communication in Nguyen’s region; they did not have radio or even newspapers (00:03:51:00) o He does recall going to his neighbor’s and hearing about the Viet Minh victory at Dien Bien Phu; everybody in Vietnam loved that victory because they wanted to drive the French out and gain independence for the country (00:04:11:00) o Both Nguyen’s uncle and father-in-law left to fight with the Viet Minh; both men were gone for about two years before returning and Nguyen does not know why they left the Viet Minh (00:04:41:00)  Nguyen attended high school from 1953 until 1962; after graduating in 1962, he went to Saigon to attend the university for dentistry, but only for a year (00:05:33:00) o However, Nguyen could not make any money to live as a student, so his uncle-inlaw, a policeman in My Tho, told him to put in an application with the police force, which he did (00:05:51:00)  When he was attending high school, Nguyen had his first opportunity to vote, which he did for Ngo Dinh Diem (00:06:34:00) o After the election of Diem, social life in the country was very good; everyone had easy lives to lead and things were good (00:06:48:00) �o Nguyen only knew a little about the communist efforts in South Vietnam, mostly because he was not interested in the political issues; he does remember one group, the South Vietnamese Liberation Front, formed to fight against Diem’s government (00:07:28:00)  Nguyen remembers being told the group was directed by communists from North Vietnam (00:07:57:00) o Before he joined the police, Nguyen knew very little about the communists, although some of his friends in the village did leave to join them (00:08:24:00) Police Service (00:09:02:00)  When he applied to join the police, Nguyen’s uncle-in-law wrote a letter which made joining easier for Nguyen and after turning in the application, Nguyen had an interview in the central police headquarters in Saigon before he was hired (00:09:02:00) o Nguyen received the first part of his police training, which he received in 1963 at a police center in Vung Tau, consisted of learning about: law enforcement, police administration, fire-marshal techniques, and the communists (00:09:45:00) o The training lasted for twelve months and after the first section, the trainees attended special courses at another police center in Saigon; the trainees also practiced at several different police centers all over South Vietnam (00:10:33:00)  Two weeks after completing his training, Nguyen received a job offer as a police officer; however, the job was working as a secretary (00:11:18:00)  Nguyen eventually got a job working in the My Tho police department with the special forces before moving to the uniform police then on to police administration and the judicial police (00:11:47:00) o He spent four years with the special police force as a secretary and eight years working in the other branches of the department, including time at the police center training others (00:12:12:00) o Nguyen spent most of his time working in an office, meaning that he did not have a lot of contact with the communists, although there was a lot of communist activity in the area, namely bombings at different public locations, including: markets, schools, and shopping malls (00:12:49:00)  Nguyen finally came to the conclusion that the communists did not care about the lives of people, they cared about defeating the Republic of Vietnam (00:13:42:00)  In 1967, Nguyen got a job working for the judicial police in [Mokwo] (00:14:05:00) o When he went to Mokwo, Nguyen had to take an American plane because the Viet Cong controlled the road to Mokwo; because of the flight, Nguyen had some contact with Americans and he found them to be very good, kind, and fervent in their duty (00:14:21:00)  One day, Nguyen talked with a GI who had come to their office and he describes the American as being kind and honest; the soldier had been in college before joining the military and Nguyen viewed him as not only a man of the United States, but as a man of the world (00:15:06:00)  Because the Vietnamese have their embassy in the United States, people have forgotten just how bad the Viet Cong were and Nguyen believes teachers must show their students this fact and to not let them be deceived by the Viet Cong (00:16:01:00) �    o No one can imagine what the Viet Cong think and do because Americans are kind and honest; Americans know very little about the Viet Cong because the door was almost shut (00:16:43:00) o The Vietnamese government owns the radio and television stations, as well as the newspapers, so the news they give is not always the truth (00:17:12:00) In 1968, during the Tet Offensive, fighting with the Viet Cong spilled over into Nguyen’s province (00:18:39:00) o One day, they gathered one hundred people inside the police station to fight against the Viet Cong; during the night, Nguyen slept in a ceiling-less bunker and during Viet Cong shells, he was nervous because he had no ceiling (00:18:52:00)  During that night, none of the shells hit anyone (00:19:35:00) o The next day, the police officers went out of the police station and Nguyen saw numerous Viet Cong lying in fields; however, other Viet Cong hide with the population and the men had to search for them (00:19:58:00) o After the offensive, Viet Cong activity in Nguyen’s region slowed down a little but they still sent mortar rounds into town every day (00:20:51:00) Nguyen did not get much information about the conflict in other parts of the country because his duty was to deal with the conventional criminals in the region (00:22:16:00) o It is hard to say whether there was more crime in South Vietnam or in the United States because the United States is so large with a large population (00:22:49:00) o Not many crimes actually happened in Nguyen’s province (00:23:11:00) The communists eventually defeated the South Vietnamese government because the South Vietnamese government did not do good work for the people (00:24:01:00) o After the Diem government collapsed, the following government was good in working with the United States, not in managing the country (00:24:26:00) o Nguyen figured it would take the communists two or three years to defeat the South; in actuality, it only took a year after the withdrawal of the Americans for the South Vietnamese government to fall (00:25:09:00) o The South Vietnamese government could not stop the communist advance partly because the United States cut off aid to the South Vietnamese government, meaning the South Vietnamese did not have enough ammunition or gasoline to continue fighting (00:25:32:00) At the end of April 1975, the communists came to Mokwo to seize the police headquarters and when they did so, the police officers did not fight them (00:26:35:00) o After they took everything from the police headquarters, including: weapons, ammunition, and money, the communists placed all the police officers in prisons, what they called “re-education camps” (00:27:11:00) Re-education Camp (00:27:46:00)  Nguyen was originally kept in one camp in [Veitang] and in 1976, the communists chose to move some of the men; Nguyen was not chosen but those who were ended up going to a camp in the North (00:27:46:00) o From Veitang, most of the prisoners moved to another camp in [Kin Nam], where Nguyen stayed until 1982 (00:28:12:00) o Nguyen originally went into one small camp while other prisoners built the main camp (00:28:54:00) �  o While at the camp, the prisoners had to attend a discussions with the communist leaders of the camp, who took turns teaching (00:29:09:00)  One day, the speaker said that their country was very rich in natural resources and that all they only had to dig into the ground to find metal sheets to put on their roofs (00:29:26:00)  Another day, the speaker told of how a North Vietnamese pilot flew into a cloud, turned off his engine, and waited for an American plane; once he saw an American plane, the pilot turned on the engine and rushed out to attack the American (00:30:05:00)  The communists also tried to say that the police officers and the government were the enemy of the people and in the classes, they explained their reasoning for the distinction (00:31:04:00) o Apart from police officers, there were also prisoners from the South Vietnamese Army as well as common criminals; however, the groups were divided into teams: the political team and the criminal team (00:32:24:00)  Neither team spent time with the other, which including having different rooms for different teams (00:32:57:00) Nguyen married his wife in 1971 when he worked in Veitang and when he went into prisoner, his oldest son was two years old and his wife was pregnant with their second child (00:33:09:00) o When he was in prisoner, Nguyen’s house was seized by the communists and his family was ordered to move out without any of their possessions (00:33:46:00) o His wife eventually went to live with her mother in the city, who shared not only her home, but also her business with (00:34:08:00)  Every day, they purchased different products, including rice and meat, and transported to Saigon before returning with different products, such as pest control items and chemical fertilizer (00:34:22:00)  The two women had to keep their business deals secret because if the communists found out, they would confiscate all the products the women had purchased (00:34:55:00)  At the time, it was difficult to make enough money to survive (00:35:22:00) o The officials in the area knew Nguyen had served with the former South Vietnamese government and his wife had a hard time with the communists, in particular, their neighbor (00:35:43:00)  When the communists came to his house in Veitang, they saw pictures of Nguyen’s father but not a picture of Ho Chi Minh; when they ordered her to take down the pictures of Nguyen’s father, she protested because of her pregnancy but the communists persisted (00:36:02:00)  They persisted because Nguyen had the label of being an enemy of the people (00:36:28:00) While in the camps, the communists wanted the prisoners to confess that what they had down before imprisonment was wrong (00:37:01:00) o One day, they wanted the prisoners to write out what they had done wrong in the past; Nguyen did write it out because what he had done was not as bad as some of the other things (00:37:22:00) �      The communists said that if prisoners did not tell the “truth”, their time in the prison would be prolonged (00:38:35:00) o The communists gave good speeches and on some occasions, Nguyen was moved by a speech; however, the more he lived with them, the more Nguyen realized that the communists deceived him (00:38:51:00)  At first, Nguyen and the other prisoners believed what the communists said, but over time, they began to see things differently; what the communists said was different from what they did (00:39:41:00) Nguyen did have some contact with his wife while he was in the camps; after about two years, Nguyen was able to contact his family and request supplies (00:40:07:00) o Nguyen’s wife would send him food but never rice because if she sent rice, that meant the government was not feeding the prisoners enough (00:40:32:00) o The prisoners had to labor every day and they only received one and a half bowls of rice at lunch and dinner with a little bit of meat, usually pork, or fish and vegetables (00:41:10:00)  When he first got to the camp, the piece of pork was the size of a finger, but over time, its size slowly decreased (00:41:38:00)  The quantity was so little that the men in the team agreed to collect all the meat for one day, usually six pieces for the seven men, and only one person received meat that day; the prisoner who received the team’s meat ration rotated between the men and on their days without meat, the men only ate rice (00:41:59:00)  However, because they received supplies from their families, the prisoners felt better (00:42:49:00) o The criminal prisoners never received supplies from their families, which meant most of them died because of hunger (00:43:06:00)  The political prisoners, like Nguyen, did share some of the supplies they received from their families with the criminal prisoners (00:43:16:00) When in the camp, the communists took anyone who had worked in a hospital and put them into a separate team to take care of the other prisoners (00:43:36:00) o The prisoners had to go around the country looking for “medicine” and if anyone got sick, then they went to this team; however, there was no medicine comparable to the medicine available in the United States (00:43:49:00) The political prisoners survived in large part due to the supplies they received from their families (00:44:35:00) When the prisoners were first arrived at the camp, the communists told the prisoners that in three months, they would be released; however, after the three months, nothing had happened, to which the communists said that after one year, the prisoners would be released (00:45:09:00) o The communists later increased the amount to three years and continued to lie to deceive the prisoners (00:45:31:00) One time while laboring, the prisoners were ordered to turn a twenty hectare forest into rice fields using tools and equipment made by other prisoners (00:46:01:00) o Once they had cut down a tree, the prisoners had to carry it on their shoulders back to the camp, about five kilometers away (00:46:22:00) � o After the forest was cut down, the prisoners were ordered to dig up the roots of the trees, which they also had to take back to the camp to use as burning material for the prisoners (00:46:36:00) o When the forest was completely gone, the prisoners had to prepare the soil fir the rice and the one machine in the camp that made the process faster kept breaking, so the men had to prepare the field by hand (00:47:04:00) o The labor force in the camp was too large, so some of the men went to other areas to work and earn money for the leaders of the camp (00:47:55:00)  To get to the other jobs, the prisoners had to walk through areas loyal to the communists; when they asked for the water, the villagers told them to get it from the wells themselves (00:48:12:00)  About two years later, when the villagers saw the prisoners in the distance, they left food and meat on the road as a gift; the people had realized that the communists were cruel (00:48:45:00) The men labored and waited until their name was called in a meeting; they heard a little about U.S. government assistance but they could not do anything (00:50:18:00) o The prisoners were released one right after another, not as one large group; every six months, someone else was released (00:50:51:00) o Nguyen does not remember anything special happening when his name was called, only being happy to hear it called (00:51:26:00) o Before he went into the camp, Nguyen had a golden ring that the communists took and when he asked for it back upon release, the communists said they could not find it (00:51:37:00) o In his release papers, the communists had written that he was born in rural village but Nguyen knew that if he went back to the village, the communist control would be very strict; instead, Nguyen told his wife to bride the communist officials to change the papers so he and his family could got into the city (00:52:20:00) Release / Immigration to the United States (00:53:07:00)  Upon his release, Nguyen lived with his wife and children in My Tho (00:53:07:00) o Whenever Nguyen’s wife visited him in the camp, she brought the children with her (00:53:24:00)  During the first two years after his release, Nguyen was under police control; every month, he had to go to the police station where police officers marked his appearance in a booklet (00:53:40:00) o Nguyen was not allowed to travel outside the province and was expected to participate in various public affairs, such as cleaning up the streets or working at a collective farm, but with no pay (00:54:09:00) o Every day, Nguyen rode a bicycle six kilometers to work with his sister planting rice and if there were no jobs in the field, he worked with a friend repairing bicycles (00:54:45:00) o Nguyen worked in the public jobs every three months and each jobs lasted for about ten days (00:55:38:00)  In one public job, Nguyen worked at a collective farm for ten days; however, when he was supposed to go for the second section, he bribed the leader of the farm to not have to go (00:55:47:00) �    At the local level, the communists chose people from the area to be the officials; at the city level and higher, the official was from the North (00:56:37:00) According to Nguyen, the communists did nothing good for the people; the good things they did do were for communist party members and their families (00:57:27:00) o When building a bridge or repairing a road, the first thing the communists did was think about how much money they would receive (00:57:40:00) o Since the communists controlled the country, they practiced suppression of the people; the communists did not care about the people’s happiness or their lives (00:58:06:00) Nguyen made his way to the United States in 1992, meaning he spent ten years under the communist regime (00:58:40:00) o In 1988, Nguyen heard word about a departure program organized by the U.S. government and one of Nguyen’s friends gave an application to the U.S. embassy in Thailand, who helped raise the funds necessary to bride the officials needed get the friend out of the country (00:59:04:00) o Nguyen originally could not afford to bribe the officials but in 1990, he borrowed enough money from a friend to get his application to go through, which took another two years to complete (00:59:38:00) o Paying officials is a custom in Vietnam; to get anything to go through, a person had to pay an official and if a person did not pay, then their paperwork would not go through (01:00:50:00)  The need to pay officials was not as serious under the former South Vietnamese government as it was under the communists because the South Vietnamese had the law; if a bad thing happened, then the law could detect it, whereas, under the communists, the law did not matter (01:01:21:00)  The different officials tried to protect one another (01:01:48:00) o At the time, Nguyen did not have to hide any of his activities because it had become normal for everyone (01:02:28:00) When they first prepared to leave, Nguyen and his family got on a plane for Thailand and from Thailand, they went to the United States, specifically, Michigan (01:03:01:00) o The family went to Michigan because in Vietnam, Nguyen had a friend who’s daughter lived in Grand Rapids and she sponsored the family to move to Michigan (01:03:26:00) o Nguyen and his family had some challenges when they first arrived in the United States but they were not too big because Nguyen knew how to speak English; moreover, Americans were always patient and willing to help the family (01:04:01:00) o Nguyen did manage to find a job, although at the time, there were not many jobs available; he found a job working in a school helping other Vietnamese (01:04:34:00) o After working in the schools, Nguyen did some manual labor; Nguyen’s wife also got a job after a year (01:05:26:00)  Nguyen and his family tried to lead honest lives because they were thankful to the U.S. government and the American people (01:05:57:00) o When the family first arrived in the United States, there was already a Vietnamese community in Grand Rapids, so they helped the family (01:06:22:00) �  Nguyen spent ten difficult years under the communists and those years made him want to leave the country; he and his family were poor and they did not have enough money to live their lives (01:07:04:00) o Nguyen’s children were not allowed to go to the university except for the agricultural college; the communists did not want them to leave the town so they could easily Nguyen (01:07:28:00) o On the other hand, in the United States, Nguyen’s children could go to any college they wanted to and the family had freedoms (01:08:12:00) Nguyen suggests that if anyone wants to visit a communist Asian country, be it China or Vietnam, then that person should not just stay in the city; they should go into the villages and the heartlands because then they can hear what the people have to say (01:09:18:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NguyenT Title A name given to the resource Nguyen, Trinh (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nguyen, Trinh Description An account of the resource Trinh Nguyen was born in a rural village in the Mekong Delta of South Vietnam. After attending a school at a French military outpost, Nguyen went traveled to Saigon to go to college. After a single year of dentistry schooling, Nguyen joined the South Vietnamese police force, where he worked through the entirety of the Vietnam War. Following the Northern victory, the communists gathered all former employees of the South Vietnamese government, including Nguyen, and placed them in re-education camps. In reality, the camps were nothing more than prisons. Nguyen stayed in the camp until 1982 before his release and he and his family stayed in Vietnam until 1992, when they immigrated to the United States. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975-Personal narratives, American Vietnam War, 1961-1975-Personal narratives, Vietnamese Other veterans & civilians-Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians-Personal narratives, Vietnamese Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-12-03 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/132da90ea037a4247f85a1ccfb02d55c.pdf bde1327b8130e18fee3a097595afbde0 PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Incunabula Description An account of the resource The term incunabula refers to books printed between 1450 and 1500, approximately the first fifty years following the invention, by Johann Gutenberg of Mainz, of printing from moveable type. Our collection includes over 200 volumes and numerous unbound leaves from books printed during this period. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1450/1500 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Incunabula Collection (DC-03) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United </a> Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource text Language A language of the resource eng it la nl de Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Postilla super totam Bibliam [folium 95] Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03_095Lyra1483 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nicolaus de Lyra Description An account of the resource One leaf from Postilla super totam Bibliam by Nicolaus de Lyra. Printed in Cologne by Ulrich Zel circa 1485. [GW M26502; ISTC in00136000] Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Cologne: Ulrich Zel Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Language A language of the resource la Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1485 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Text https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5028f95353f4bec9e3f38457752a22d0.pdf 2e2b2020a263dd0223740490b87f2e43 PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Incunabula Description An account of the resource The term incunabula refers to books printed between 1450 and 1500, approximately the first fifty years following the invention, by Johann Gutenberg of Mainz, of printing from moveable type. Our collection includes over 200 volumes and numerous unbound leaves from books printed during this period. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1450/1500 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Incunabula Collection (DC-03) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United </a> Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource text Language A language of the resource eng it la nl de Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Formicarius [folium 61] Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03_061Nider1484 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nider, Johannes Description An account of the resource One leaf from Formicarius by Johannes Nider. Printed in Augsburg by Anton Sorg circa 1484. [GW M26845; ISTC in00176000] Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Augsburg: Anton Sorg Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Language A language of the resource la Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1484 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Text