723 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b4b18603afbbf8b3c6336157f35dbb4c.mp4 8017917ed1639f8ec4ba4fbd32cff27e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/235471a8a88ebf4ea9e0c639cd9c4d3b.pdf a0fa84cb3c6e0f8642bde46994ec5733 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Shirley Morris Interviewer: James Smither Transcribed by Emilee G. Johnson, Western Michigan University Length: 30:33 James Smither: We’re talking today with Shirley Morris of Ionia, Michigan, the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project. Now, Mrs. Morris, can you start by telling us a little bit about your background, to begin with, where and when were you born? Shirley Morris: Well, I was born in Boston, Massachusetts in 1923. And my father was studying to be a minister and he went to school there, so my sister and I were both born there in Massachusetts. And then since my folk were both from the West, we returned to Colorado where my father had a small church. And eventually we moved up 1:00 to northern Wyoming and I went into nurses’ training in 1941 in Billings, Montana. James Smither: Now before we talk about that, tell me a little bit about what your life was like growing up in Colorado, Wyoming, I mean, what kind of places were these that you lived in? Shirley Morris: Well, we did live in Utah for a while, and that’s where we started to school, they had good schools, but then, I started high school in Wyoming and graduated in, must’ve been 1941. And then 2:00 my folks wanted us to continue schooling, they couldn’t afford to send us to a university or a college so, by going into nurses’ training, my sister and I both went, we could get our training and our education, it was three solid years, we never had any, we had one week off on the first two years and the second week [misspoke] we had two weeks off for vacation, so it’s almost like a four-year college course would be, and… James Smither: Now how did you pay for that, or did the program pay for it? Shirley Morris: Well, it was paid for through our work. We had three months of schooling, we were transported in buses to a school in Billings, 3:00 for our work and the rest was right at the hospital and then we started gradually working on the wards. And we continued with this schooling, all through the three years, working almost full time toward the last. And I graduated in, let’s see, ’44. James Smither: Now before you graduated, were you paying much attention to the news from the war and that kind of thing or were you so busy, you didn’t notice? �Shirley Morris: Oh, we all paid very close attention because we all had relatives, I had two brothers in the service. And of course, you’d get daily news of it and we were very concerned about it. And I can remember, 4:00 it was on the Sunday they attacked Pearl Harbor, I remember that very well because I was just coming out of church and we heard the news that Pearl Harbor had been bombed. And that was, of course, very upsetting. James Smither: Were you in nursing school by that time? Had you started that? Shirley Morris: I was, I think I was through nursing school by then. James Smither: Or at least first term, or? Cause that’s 1941, you would’ve been 18, so. Pearl Harbor is 1941. So, that would’ve been about the beginning of your nurses training, I guess. Shirley Morris: Yes. James Smither: All right, that happens. Now, when you were 5:00 training in the hospital, were you thinking about the prospect of joining the military, or was that a plan? Shirley Morris: No, in a way they, I guess this was through an act of Congress, they established the Cadet Nurses. And we were paid about $30 a month and we were given little uniforms to wear when we were off duty. And we were quite proud of those, and that helped us a lot with our payments and so on for the schooling. And at that time, that’s when rationing started, and we had, you know, you’d get points and you could only buy so many pairs of shoes. But I remember that nurses could have one extra point so you could buy your white 6:00 work shoes. But I remember I wore my uniform, by that time, my folks had moved back here to Michigan, they wanted to be where there was better schools for my brothers and I wore this uniform and I don’t think a lot of people understood just what that meant, they knew it had something to do with the service but not many people had seen that type of uniform before. But I thought I could, maybe I could get my fare cheaper if I had a uniform. [laughs] But I remember, I took the Greyhound bus and you had about 20 minutes to eat or wash up or whatever it was, well, I was young and hungry so 7:00 I just washed my hands and when I got back there, my arms weren’t very clean back in the [laughs] from just washing my hands, but it was an interesting trip. Course I was glad to get back to see my folks. I started working at the little hospital here, it was an old house that they had renovated and I worked there until I joined the service and… James Smither: Now, what motivated you to join the service? Why did you join the service? Shirley Morris: Well they said they needed nurses, they were, of course, expecting to have a lot of casualties, and they kept saying, we need nurses, we need nurses, so a friend of mine �and I decided to enlist in the Navy. Like I said, when I got the call to go it was in the Army and I said, well, 8:00 I’m not going to go. [laughs] And I decided that… And they told me I would be considered AWOL if I didn’t go so I packed up and we went to Camp McCoy, Wisconsin. And we were put through marching and how to salute and calisthenics and we all lost weight, but we learned the basics of Army life. And course, we were outfitted with different uniforms. The uniform we wore to work in the hospital was a brown-and-white sear-sucker wrap-around and the caps were kind of a pointed thing that tied in the back and that’s what we wore on duty. And we were given an olive green two-piece suit for dress and then the light beige for dress-up. 9:00 And we were given fatigues and we were given boots, ankle-length boots and underwear, it was cotton, it came down over our knees. And different kind of caps, we had the visor cap with the little [motions], what do you call, the little peak cap. James Smither: Now, I want to fill in a little bit about your training, you said you did do a version of basic training, then, at Camp McCoy, in Wisconsin. And were you training just with other nurses, or was this with women of all kinds, from the WACs too. Shirley Morris: This was nurses that were all graduated and we were being trained how to be a military nurse. You know, 10:00 with the marching and saluting, and that sort of thing. James Smither: Now, were you going to get to be commissioned officers because you were nurses? Shirley Morris: Yes. We were inducted as officers because we had had the three years of training. James Smither: All right. Was that helpful to you in any way? Was it good to have the status of an officer or did you not notice? Shirley Morris: It really didn’t—we didn’t have the background to compare it with. I never met many officers or soldiers or anything to know just what that meant but I soon found out because when I got to Japan, I found out that, through letters that I had a cousin that was in the service. But he was an enlisted man. And I could not go out with him any place, we had to sit in the parlor and visit. [laughs] 11:00 James Smither: Cause you outranked him. Ok. Now, how long did the training at Camp McCoy take? Was it just a couple weeks, or? Shirley Morris: No, that was about three months. James Smither: Ok. So were you getting any training about Army medicine, or that kind of thing, or was it all just Army discipline, and…? �Shirley Morris: Army discipline because we already knew about medicine and all of that. And then we were put on a train and sent down to South Carolina and that’s when we heard the news that the atomic bomb had been dropped. And we thought, well, we won’t have to go now, but that didn’t make any difference, they still sent us on. We went down through the Panama Canal, which was fascinating, and we got to get off the ship for a while 12:00 there and see some of the, some of the police officers who were working there and they kind of took us over and showed us around. It was nice. And then we went back up to Hawaii. James Smither: Now what kind of ship were you on? Shirley Morris: It was a hospital ship. It was made for shipping patients. But it had a, there was a compliment of thirty nurses that were assigned to the ship, but we took over, the places where we could be with patients, just, we were in bunks, and so… James Smither: And how many were on it when you started? Shirley Morris: Well there was a thousand of us, which is a lot of women 13:00 and then, course, as I said, after we got up through the Panama Canal, they sent five hundred back to San Francisco and dispersed them over the States. And the rest of us went on overseas to, well, to Hawaii, and then to, we went to the Philippines, and they kept breaking us up into smaller units and I was sent down to Leyte. And that was, we took care of patients that were, by then any casualties had been sent back to the States, so what we took care of were just things that civilians had, tonsillectomies and appendectomies and malaria, 14:00 and that type of thing. And we lived in a, we had a twelve-foot-high burlap wall all around our quarters, and there was a wooden floor and there was four of us in a little hut. And we had cots with mosquito netting over it, because there was rats around too. [laughs] And Filipino girls came and asked to work for us. Well, that was fine, they’d take our clothes and wash it and keep the place tidy and clean and… But one thing we had to deal with was mildew, it was constant, you know, you couldn’t put your suitcase on the floor or it would get all white and mildewy. So, the only place we could go was if we went with an officer, 15:00 so we, they would all find us a date and we would go to an officers’ club and that was it. There was no place else to go, but… James Smither: Was there much of a hospital facility there? Shirley Morris: It was all just like our living quarters, it was wooden floors and tents and all the patients had mosquito netting to put over them at night. And we worked, called tropical hours, we worked six hours, instead of eight and we wore slacks, tan slacks and tan shirts for work. And let’s see, I forget how many months, we were over there around, I’m not �quite sure how long it was. 16:00 It was just a short time, several months. Maybe just over three months. James Smither: Right. Shirley Morris: And they put us on another hospital ship, it was called the Hope and we were sent to Japan. And they had taken over all the Japanese hospitals. And I was stationed at the 76th General. And we had quarters right next to the building. And there we had to wear our sear-sucker uniforms. And we had ward boards [????boys? boards? Not sure what she’s saying???] that helped us, and one of the ward boards????, I found out, was from Michigan, near where I lived. So he would come and talk once in a while. And then there was a patient that he said was from my home town, and so this fellow 17:00 came to see me, and course, I hadn’t lived here very long in Ionia, and so he wanted to visit and hear about everybody but I wasn’t much help. [laughs] But we had a good visit. But it happened that when I got home, I went into a furniture store to buy my folks a rug, and the fellow that came to wait on me, I knew him immediately, he looked just like his brother, and so I started talking to him and then he delivered the rug that I had bought for my folks and we started dating, and he’s the man I married. [laughs] James Smither: Ok, let’s back up a little bit, let’s go back to the Philippines, here, for a minute. When you were in the Philippines, did you have to take drugs against malaria? Did you take atabrine, or something like that? Shirley Morris: Yes, we did. Oh, I remember all the nurses that had been there, how yellow 18:00 they looked, but we still had to take it, we had to take salt tablets and atabrine, all the time we were there. James Smither: Did you have any problems with any of the tropical diseases or were you able to stay clean enough and healthy enough that that wasn’t a problem? Shirley Morris: No, there was no problems with any of that for any of us, I don’t know if the girls before us, they didn’t seem to have any problems except they had this yellow cast to their complexion from taking that atabrine. James Smither: Now, were there many American servicemen left in the Philippines while you were there, or were they all getting sent home? Shirley Morris: Oh there were some there yet, they had to keep them there to help maintain the peace. That’s where we’d get the patients from and there were some English people I remember too, there was one Englishman, that, he told us he always thought American girls were kind 19:00 of cheeky. [laughs] There problems were just what you would have in regular civilian life. �James Smither: Right. Ok, tell me a little bit more about Japan. Where in Japan were you stationed? Where was your hospital? Shirley Morris: It was in Tokyo. The 76th General and it was a Japanese hospital that the Americans had taken over. And their bathrooms were something to be desired. There was just a hole in the floor. And you had to squat. [laughs] That was hard. And we had little Japanese boys that would help, they didn’t deliver the trays to the patients, they took them back, and we had to watch them real close because they would eat the food from the trays. And one little boy was really clever at it, and he 20:00 started getting fat from eating that food. [laughs] James Smither: What physical condition was that area of Tokyo in? Were you in a place— Shirley Morris: Tokyo was in good condition, they had tried not to bomb especially around the Imperial Palace and that… Tokyo was just, the outlying places was bombed because they knew that they had given war work to the individual homes. And Yokohama was bombed badly cause that was considered a manufacture center. So we didn’t see a lot of destruction in Tokyo. James Smither: In general, how did the Japanese people behave toward you? Shirley Morris: [bows] 21:00 James Smither: They bowed a lot? Shirley Morris: [nods] James Smither: Did you deal with many of them except the boys that helped clear out the stuff, did they work in the hospital? Shirley Morris: No. There was one girl that worked as sort of a receptionist at our, the home where we stayed. And she spoke English, we could talk to her. And she was, she didn’t have much to say, she was always real polite and her job was to sit at the desk and if anybody came calling for us, she’d come to the room. And sometimes we’d say, “Well, what did they look like, how tall are they?” And she’d come and stand next to us and she’d go like this [motions upward]. [laughs] But I can’t remember that there was anything disrespectful 22:00 or you know, walking in the streets or anything, everybody was just sort of nonchalant. Course we had to get used to the bowing, they all did their bowing, no matter what. But I remember, we went out to the country, we’d get a jeep and go for a ride and they used to, they called them honey carts, you had alleys by all the homes and they would take waste from these homes and take it out and put it on the fields. So we were warned never to eat anything other than what we got from the hospital. Although we did, if you became ill, which I did, I had a bite on my forehead and �I developed a fever and I couldn’t work, so 23:00 they sent me to, what-you-call-it, TDY, Temporary Duty, and I was sent to a, it was sort of a resort area at the foot of Mount Fujiyama. And I could take one of my friends with me, And the food there was really good. And there was a lot of different nationalities, I remember the table next to us there was some fellas that were from India, they had the turbans on. James Smither: The Sikhs, yeah. Shirley Morris: And that was interesting. And some of them did hike up, start up Mount Fuji, but I wasn’t allowed to do that. But that was a restful time. A nice break. James Smither: Did you enjoy the work? 24:00 Did you like being a nurse in the Army? Shirley Morris: Yes, I did. I felt like I was doing my part. James Smither: In general, how did the military personnel treat the nurses? Did they respect what you were doing and treat you like professionals, or? Shirley Morris: Yes. Sometimes, I think, the civilians on trains, I don’t think they knew the difference between a WAC and a nurse. Sometimes some people would sort of look down on the WACs. And I think sometimes they didn’t realize, you know, they didn’t see your insignia, and realize the difference. I could feel that on the trains at times. But otherwise, you know, the nurses were respected and… James Smither: Now, when you were in Japan, were you treating military American personnel only, or did you have Japanese people or civilians? 25:00 Who were your patients in Japan? Shirley Morris: Oh, they were Americans. We had no Japanese. When I was a nurse, I worked in Billings, that was when I was in training, there was a Japanese man that was quite wealthy, and you know, the Japanese were moved from California, they were moved back into Wyoming, there was a camp where they put these Japanese. And since he was quite wealthy he could move from that area, it wasn’t very pleasant, they just had barracks. I felt sorry for them. But he was a patient and I got to know him and he came to visit my folks and he gave them 26:00 a beautiful picture because they were so nice to him. [turns and points] It’s that picture over there. [laughs] He gave it to them, he was a nice gentleman. But you could tell they were resentful from having to be moved. Cause they considered themselves, I don’t know whether they considered themselves American, whether they were naturalized or not but they were, no matter what, they were, all of them were shipped from the California coast. �James Smither: Are there particular events, things that happened while you were overseas that kind of stand out in your memory? If you think back to being in Japan or in the Philippines, what do you think about? 27:00 Shirley Morris: Well, it’s just hard to say, the whole thing was sort of, put together, I consider it really, I think it was a privilege and I felt like I got a lot out of it. As well as, like I was doing a part for the war effort. But if I’ve ever talked to anybody, a group, and I said I’d been so-and-so places and they said, “Oh, you have?” And I’ve said, “I had a rich uncle. His name was Uncle Sam.” [laughs] 28:00 James Smither: So a good way to see the world, then. Shirley Morris: Yeah. But as far as anything outstanding, it was just, it was the whole thing together. James Smither: All right, now how long did you stay in Japan? Shirley Morris: Well, I think it was, maybe the same time as the Philippines, it was probably about three months. James Smither: And then, when your time was done in Japan, how did they send you home? Shirley Morris: A ship. James Smither: Was it a hospital ship or just a regular transport now? Shirley Morris: It was a transport, not a hospital ship. They had all the women on one deck and they had all the soldiers on the other one and we used to lean over and talk to each other. [laughs] And then we landed in 29:00 Oregon and we were sent by, I think we were sent by train to Chicago, Illinois. And then we were dispersed from there to our homes. James Smither: Now when you got back home, did you take a job as a nurse, or did you just get married, or what did you do? Shirley Morris: Well, I worked for three years, as a nurse at the hospital here in town, so, as I said, I met my husband and we went together for about that long, and we got married. Lived on the farm. [laughs] I’d never lived on a farm in my life, I had a lot to learn. But I loved every minute of it. 30:00 James Smither: All right. Well, it makes for a good story, so unless you’ve got something else you want to add to the record here, we can kind of close this out. Shirley Morris: Well, I can’t think of anything except to say that I hope we never have to go through it again, but I would do it all over again if I had to. �James Smither: All right. Well, thank you very much for taking the time to talk to me today. 30:33 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MorrisS Title A name given to the resource Morris, Shirley (Interview transcript and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Morris, Shirley Description An account of the resource Shirley Morris grew up in the western United States and attended nursing school between 1941 and 1944. Upon graduating, she was recruited into the army. After military orientation at Camp McCoy, Wisconsin, she was sent to the Pacific on a hospital ship and assigned to a hospital in the Philippines. She later went to Yokohama, Japan and served in an American military hospital there for three months before being sent home. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army. Women’s Army Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-11-18 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b9b9421a0b87161c6e2853f07a135d18.mp4 2968557059773eca31de1dde92296807 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/baf8cf8304828578f2a6b361dc42c013.pdf ba85bcbabfa5dfcf1c18c92032c4357b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of Interviewee: Roger Morrison Name of War: World War II Length of Interview: (01:45:07) (00:15) Background Information • • • • • • Roger was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on February 21, 1924 His father worked a s a metal polisher and lost his job during the Depression He then began working part time and making only half as much per hour His father worked at Michigan Wheel Company during the war making propellers Roger went to school until he was 14 years old and then began working at a bait shop His brother had been drafted even before Pearl Harbor was attacked (6:35) Drafted Into the Army • Roger was drafted in February 1943, right before his 19th birthday • He was sent to Fort Grant in Illinois for induction and then to Fort Bliss is El Paso, Texas • He went through basic training where they worked on gunnery, guard duty, marching, infantry, and military discipline (10:45) New Mexico • The men stayed in tar paper shacks on their base; it was very hot during the day and cold at night • Roger had finished training in August of 1943 and had trained for 6 months altogether • They had time on leave to go to Mexico where they could get lots of goods for a very low price; there was no rationing south of the border • They were told to basically pig out and eat lots of ice cream and drink lots of milk because once they went overseas they would not be able to • Roger was assigned to the 13th Infantry Division and they began training with the 12th and 14th Divisions (14:15) Overseas • They left from New York on the SS Monterey, a passenger ship • It was a 12 day voyage and there were not enough bunks, so half the men had to sleep on deck every other night while the others slept in bunks • They traveled in a convoy with warships; there were about 100,000 troops altogether • They landed in Oran and waited for another week or so for their guns and other supplies • They were then shipped in rail cars through the Atlas Mountains to Tunisia where their battalion was stationed �(20:25) North Africa • They worked in Algiers with anti-aircraft guns • If planes came through the airspace they were guarding and had no ID, they were supposed to take them down, even if the plane did appear to be American • The Germans were working on reconnaissance and always came through at night • The Americans had 548 radar that helped detect German planes at night • They were the Mediterranean and it was a very nice area • The Americans did not want to associate with the civilians and suspected that they stole from them at night while they were sleeping (34:10) Leaving Africa • The US had some Italian prisoners that had helped them work in the area • There were many Italian-Americans in their unit and everyone got along well with the POWs • They left the area in July of 1944, heading toward Egypt where they were to meet the British and head into Italy • All the men had already been expecting to be sent into Italy or France (42:10) England • They moved North to England and stayed there for 6 weeks, waiting for supplies and cleaning up US camps • They often stayed in the estates of old castles in the very green countryside • The men all received a few 3 day passes while they were there to travel through Britain (45:10) France • The men were shipped to France on a ferry that held about 600 men and landed on Omaha Beach • They stayed on the boat for 5 days waiting off the coast, about 1 mile for the beach �• There was not much activity and they felt like sitting ducks; it was about 139 days after D Day • They finally got off the ship and went through a little village near Normandy, where they decided to stay in a cow pasture • The area contained old German bunkers, hedgerows, orchards, and was the main landing area for gliders • They then moved into Paris and set up positions in an old soccer field • Everything in Paris was very expensive and no one could afford anything, so most used cigarettes as a bartering tool • There were no Germans there at the time and they stayed there for about 6 weeks (55:20) Belgium • They had been stationed in the Liege area , a German anti-aircraft site • They were often attacked by German planes, but never hit • Roger was so busy, he was staying up for many days in a row and not getting any sleep • Belgium was very cold and no one had any proper winter clothing (1:11:50) Back to France • They left Belgium to go to Germany on April 13, 1945, the day that Roosevelt died • The men had been staying on the West side of the Rhine River near a pontoon bridge • There were convoys carrying German POWs that were constantly crossing the River • Roger was sent to Marseilles to begin training for the war in the Pacific • They had only been working in Germany for 3 days and Roger would have liked to stay longer • Roger was on guard duty in France and saw a lot of the growing black market (1:23:20) Working in Europe • Roger was able to work with the same group of men while he was in Europe • A few were taken from their unit to serve as replacements in other units �• They mostly worked with their sergeants and did not see much of their officers • The men usually did not trust any of the civilians in Europe and felt that some of them were German sympathizers • Roger really enjoyed visiting Germany and felt that much of their architecture was similar to that in America (1:27:20) Marseilles • Roger was in Marseilles from May through November; they were staying in small tents guarded by MPs and Roger felt that they were all crooks • They left Marseilles on a very rough sea voyage • Throughout most of the trip Roger was worried that the old ship was going to break in half • The ship landed in Boston after going through many large swells and everyone on the ship was sick • It was very cold when they got off the ship and everyone was very hungry • They had arrived unexpectedly and no one was ready for them or had any food waiting (1:32: 30) After Service • Roger was discharged at Camp Atterbury in Indiana • When he returned to Michigan Roger helped his parents build a new house • He continued working at the bait shop and then later got a job working in a factory � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MorrisonR Title A name given to the resource Morrison, Roger W. (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Morrison, Roger W. Description An account of the resource Roger Morrison was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on February 21, 1924. He went to school until he was 14 years old and then began working in a bait shop until he was drafted into the Army in February 1943. Roger went through basic training in El Paso Texas and advanced training in New Mexico for a total of 6 months. He was assigned to the 13th Infantry Division and first fought in North Africa, working with an anti-aircraft unit. They later moved north into France, Belgium, Germany, and then back to Marseilles. Roger had been training for the war in the Pacific in Marseilles, but was eventually discharged before being sent to the Pacific. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-04-14 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f6b3cabbbd2d046b69940bdaa3541870.jpg b0a9f44825cb15767e9756dded5977d1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Lincoln and the Civil War. PS1556 .L6 1908 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0217 Title A name given to the resource Lyrics of Lowly Life Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Morse, Alice C. (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of Lyrics of Lowly Life, by Paul Laurence Dunbar, published by Dodd, Mead and Company, 1908. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1908 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5081d6984d81426095217ec4f924392d.jpg bdb0e07db69a87334a8d38a15117d518 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Lincoln and the Civil War. PS1556 .L7 1899 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0218 Title A name given to the resource Lyrics of the Hearthside Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Morse, Alice C. (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of Lyrics of the Hearthside, by Paul Laurence Dunbar, published by Dodd, Mead and Company, 1899. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1899 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a4820738c4aeb3a70b111da6686e66e3.jpg cce8df8f3d29446bfdd18ef9224113b1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. PS1556 .P6 1899 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0219 Title A name given to the resource Poems of Cabin and Field Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Morse, Alice C. (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of Poems of Cabin and Field, by Paul Laurence Dunbar, published by Dodd, Mead and Company, 1895-1896. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1895-1896 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f84e87ee880429bddf59ccef6cde90ef.jpg 3f9be57884e2ae726aa5c058a7cace1a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. PS1556 .L58 1913 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0139 Title A name given to the resource Lyrics of Love and Laughter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Morse, Alice Cordelia (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of Lyrics of Love and Laughter, by Paul Laurence Dunbar, published by Dodd, Mead & Company, 1913. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1913 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/56647999b9f4cbdb4332832a55e5dfaa.mp4 6ad6be9be8fe13dee38b7a79a3e4752c https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fcd18884ee0436786d5ff2fc5f9248db.pdf 199ab49ab84f708d8f4e7f348944b43e PDF Text Text William James College Interviews GV016-16 Interviewer: Barbara Roos Interviewee: Deanna Morse Date: 1984 Part: 1 of 2 [Barbara] Okay, if you would just start out, wherever you want, talking about the difference of teaching at a conventional situation and teaching at William James. [Morse] Well, one thing for me is the observation about studying both places because I studied at a conventional school and then I got my master’s degree from Goddard. And for me the difference between the two was like night and day. Because what I found in conventional school was that a lot of the emphasis is on grades and how one would perform. And at Goddard a lot of the feeling was what you can do with that… whatever the learning is. And I guess I've seen that at Grand Valley, too. The most obvious thing for me is that when I give students… after students turn in films, I write comments to them on their films, you know, with long comments… a page or two. And what would happen at William James is people would read my comments, and they would take it in, and they would respond to it. And in grade situations, what I find, is that people immediately turn to the last part of it, see what their grade is, and then factor all those comments, you know, on the basis of what that letter grade was. And to me that's the least important part of the learning. The important part is the feedback. But what I find students do is they just look at the grade. And even some really good students in this term, in fact, came to me and said: "Well it's getting near the end of the term and I wonder how much, you know, how much my grade would go up if I redid this project." And it's totally unimportant what the grade would go out. The real important thing is how well they can do the project. But the incentive to do it well seems to be not there in the graded system. [Barbara] But that's the opposite from what people who advocate grades… what most people say. They say you have to have grades or else people won’t work. [Morse] No, I didn't think that was true at all. At James what happened was people worked because then they enjoyed the work and it had nothing to do with how you evaluated that work, in terms of A. B, C, D, or F. But they did the work until they felt the work was right. And in the graded system I find people will say: "Well I was only a C student in high school, so I don't have to do any better than a C now." Or: "I was only a B student in high school, so I’m satisfied with a B." Or: "I was only a D student in high school, I'm satisfied with a D." And then don't try to make themselves better. And that for me has been the biggest frustration… is moving back to grades. �[Barbara] Okay. What other differences in teaching are there that seem important? If there are any… excuse me. [Morse] Besides the grades? The grades is the big one, for me. The other stuff… it's harder for me because I always thought James' requirements of the milestone were a little wacky anyway. And I never quite got a sense of what a student had to do to complete their study plan. And I feel, hearing Richard, I feel part of the difference is really a difference of a nontraditional school within a larger structure versus a school that's nontraditional all the way through. I don't think those questions come up at a place like Goddard or a place like Evergreen. But within William James what happened was it seemed like people trying to sort of mold the alternative ed. to make it fit into what people could see as parallel to traditional requirements. So that part of it to me hasn't been a real difficulty. But the grade/non-graded aspect has been the biggest one. And the fact that at James the nature of the students were different. We got people that were older and were coming back that really wanted to learn this area and now it just seems like we're getting a lot of eighteen-year-olds that just want to go to college and someone told them that film was interesting and they're studying it. And a lot of that kind of thing. [Barbara] What would you say, in your experience at James, was the thing that was most valuable to you or to, you know, the most valuable to the universe? What was the best thing about being there? [Morse] Well, I think the feeling that you were participating in something that was looking for answers, rather than just fitting into a structure that people accept as the norm for no apparent reason for it. That's really for me… and there's no reason that we should accept the fact that traditional education is the answer. It, you know, just a thing… "Well, I did it, so other people should too" or something like that. It has nothing to do with really questioning what students need to know or what students need to learn. It just seems to me that traditional education is based on tradition, basically. And it just sort of comes out of that need of knowledge. Whereas at James what people were doing was saying: "Maybe there is a different way to approach education, what would that way be?" And everyone was sort of seeking that answer. And participating in that environment was the most important overriding aspect of what made it special to me. [Barbara] I think that's a wonderful answer, because I agree with it; however, I wonder if there's something… a specific manifestation of the kind of things we were doing that you could also mention. That's an attitudinal one, and I agree – it’s basic – but is there something we did in classes, or in council, or something, that you can mention that you really miss now or that you think made things work? Because you were in such a pragmatic place, it wasn't just attitude, things were worked �out. [Morse] I don't know. I think it really, for me, it was just that sort of overriding attitude which manifests itself in counsel and all the discussions. And I remember sitting in rooms, and looking around, and saying: "People have such a variety of attitudes and opinions about things. I can look at these people. I can see their opinions, I can see their attitudes, I can see how they manifest, I can accept their different viewpoints as all being valid.” And somehow, within this new system, you don't have that same… it's not that same sort of flexibility towards accepting that there are different approaches. That's really… it's very fundamental and basic. [Barbara] Do you think we failed? [Morse] Oh no, no. And I get real angry when people say that the college was an experiment because to me the sort of connotation of that is: if it is no longer existing and it was an experiment, an experiment failed. And I just don't buy that at all. And I always tend to jump on people or call in, you know, when people say that it was an experiment and it failed and that's why it's no longer there. That wasn't it at all anymore. [Barbara] Why isn't it any longer there? [Morse] I'm not totally sure why it wasn't there. In fact, when I came it seemed like the college was on the verge of folding. I remember the first faculty meeting that I came to, Adrian started the meeting by saying: "If we make it through the year, we'll be glad." And I went up to Adrian at the break and I said: "If this is true, why am I here?" You know? I mean why did I bother coming to school that's already on the decline? And I guess… I don't know how many years. Let’s see, I've been at Grand Valley five. It must have lasted about three years after that… after I came. [Barbara] What year was that? [Morse] Seventy-nine when I came. When did it close? [Barbara] Eighty-one. [Morse] Eighty-one. So yeah, it was just two years. Not long. [Barbara] And that was supposedly the bad two years. [Morse] I think I missed the hay-day of the college and I think I did come in at the tail end and the part when I came in was… I was hired in the week that they took �computers and management out and all that stuff. And TJC was closed. The day that I interviewed I think they announced that TJC would be closed, so I came at a real down time for it. But I remember when I went back to Denver after the interview, I knew that I would take the job if it was offered because I knew that working in this place would be a once-in-a-lifetime type of opportunity. And, you know, that was why I came. [Barbara] What was the thing that didn't work most, in your experience? What was the worst thing? [Morse] At James? [Barbara] Yeah. [Morse] I had the most problem with study plans, and I always felt that there was some sort of a hidden agenda to what would be expected on the study plans. And I remember having many long debates with Barry Castro, and other people, about why we just didn't articulate what we were looking for on study plans because it seems like we were. And that was the biggest area of dissatisfaction for me with students… was trying to help them design a study plan that I felt other people would accept. That was my biggest problem. [Barbara] Why do you think they closed us? [Morse] I don't know. I think that… I'm not real sure. I don't think it was politically advantageous for them to keep the college open because they had gotten a lot of bad press in the community and people in the community didn't understand – not so much with James but with TJC. And they put James, sort of, into the same ballpark as TJC. It's alternative ed.; it doesn't make sense. We can't articulate it. We can't say in one sentence what it is at the college, what it means. So, I think that was probably why it was closed. But it's not totally clear to me why it was closed. It's also, in some ways, not clear to me why it held on as long as it did. [Barbara] You came here and felt very comfortable here. Had you read a lot of William James philosophy? [Morse] No, no I didn't know anything about William James. [Barbara] Why do you think you felt so comfortable here? [Morse] Well, I think that my own background in alternative ed. had the most to do with it. What happened to me was that I went to an undergraduate school that was very traditional and when I graduated with my bachelor's degree, I said that there was no way that I would go on for, you know… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource William James College Interviews Description An account of the resource Videotaped interviews of William James College faculty, students and administrators by Barbara Roos. William James College opened in 1971 as the third baccalaureate degree granting college for Grand Valley. It was originally designed to be an interdisciplinary, non-departmentalized college consisting of concentration programs, rather than majors. Curriculum was organized around three concentrations that were meant to be interdisciplinary career preparation offerings: Social Relations, Administration and Information Management, and Environmental Studies. The college was discontinued in 1983 during a reorganization of Grand Valley. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/69">William James College faculty and student interviews (GV016-16)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Universities and colleges Oral histories Alternative education Interdisciplinary approach in education Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roos, Barbara (Interviewer) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV016-16 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV016-16_GVSU_39_Morse Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Morse, Deanna Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984 Title A name given to the resource Deanna Morse interview (1 of 2, video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Interview with Deanna Morse by Barbara Roos, documenting the history of Grand Valley State's William James College. William James College was the third baccalaureate degree granting college for Grand Valley. It was originally designed to be an interdisciplinary, non-departmentalized college consisting of concentration programs, rather than majors. The college opened in 1971 and was discontinued in 1983 during a reorganization of Grand Valley State. Deanna Morse was an Arts and Media faculty member in William James College from 1979 to 1981. In this interview, Deanna discusses the differences in teaching at William James College and what she valued most about being a part of its community. This interview is part 1 of 2 for Deanna Morse. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roos, Barbara (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Universities and colleges Oral histories Alternative education Interdisciplinary approach in education Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/69">William James College faculty and student interviews (GV016-16)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3332e020fc383ca7fb5d778ccebdd3fc.mp4 f06de20bdc516c26989c8ee847ba7b53 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e224af6b706927cbd127bc6da306d990.pdf 647876f24c2708041c0b6c041f1d7bb6 PDF Text Text William James College Interviews GV016-16 Interviewer: Barbara Roos Interviewee: Deanna Morse Date: 1984 Part: 2 of 2 [Morse] So, you're going to ask me about the students? [Barbara] Yeah! [Morse] The qualities of the William James students that you don't see…? [Barbara] Or what kind of quality did we really appreciate in some of the people? [Morse] Well, I think one of the things about William James students was that they knew why they were there – and they were there to learn. And my feeling is that some of the students that are there now don't know exactly why they are except that it's a transition point between college and something else… life elsewhere. The qualities that I saw in people were sort of self-initiative, willing to follow things through, willing to take risks, willingness to fail, and a desire to really do what it took to get the job done. Which in many times meant a lot of work and a lot of redoing. And I find that part of the grading systems, I think, is what keeps people from being willing to do that. And I was really surprised… this term I used the technique of giving people very low grades with the idea that they would then redo their work to get the higher grades. And it surprised me that in several cases people accepted their low grade and just stopped right there. They accepted Ds, they accepted D minuses, they accepted C minuses and Fs. And they just said: "Well that's what I'm used to getting in education." And, you know, that's it and then didn't redo the work. Even with my constant prodding saying: "I believe that you have something good there. It's worth redoing. I believe your tape, you know, could use some re-editing, some restructuring." And still people just said: "Well, I'll accept that grade." And I didn't hear that in James. In James it seemed like people were more willing to continue redoing the work. Also, though, I think part of it is the fact that students are juggling six or seven classes right now, too. And what they're learning from education is…I don't think that they’re real-life skills particularly. What people are learning is what they need to do to get the minimum level grades in all of their classes and I really don't see where that translates into real life and learning later on. I had the same kind experience in my own undergraduate experience, and I don't see where that has taught me anything in adult life. I mean, I don't have that kind of experience in jobs where I go into a job and I say: "What's the minimum that I can do to get this paycheck?" It's just not the way that it works in the real world. Yet, in education that's �something that we teach our students is what you have to do to get the minimum grades to get by. And the students at their own level – whether the minimum grades are a B, an A, or a C – and they do whatever it takes to get to that level, just to get by. [Barbara] How do you motivate them? What makes the miraculous change? Why don't they just do the minimum to pass a pass/ fail system? Which is what we had. I mean everybody always said that's what's wrong with a pass/fail system. They'll all just do the minimum. [Morse] That just wasn't my experience that people would do the minimum. It seemed to me that something about not labeling it as C, D, F, B, A… something about not having that label ever put on it made people strive for excellence. And, also, in the pass/fail system, you could require people to redo. And I guess you can in a graded system, too, but somehow it doesn't seem to fit as well as it did in the non-graded structure. [Barbara] What else… comes after a terrific interview question? [Morse] Well, the other thing that I guess I was saying before the tape ran out about my own education… which I understand some of the students now, which is that you do in an educational situation where you are in control of what you're doing. What you get is this sort of a self-affirming kind of feeling that then makes you want to work. And, for me, my graduate experience had that effect on me. Going to Goddard college – which was a similar experience to James – where you were able to define what it is that you felt was important to you, and then you had guidance from an instructor that would lead you on some roads or some paths to reaching whatever that goal was that you determine. Well, you feel then that you are the person that's responsible for your education. And within the more traditional educational structures it's hard to get that because instead it's more an assembly line in a factory or something like that; where you're trying to tell people I've packaged some information which I feel is important and you need to process that information to get out of this course. It's a much different kind of structure saying: "Come to the course, tell me what you feel like you need to do in this course, and then I will help you facilitate being able to do that through taking media production, or art, or whatever the course was.” And you can't just do that… you can just teach that way in a traditional structure because the students don't come with the same values and same expectations. If you try to teach that way now students come in and say: "But I expect you to define what the activities are, what the studies are for the course." And, of course, when I define them they're a different set of activities than if they were defined individually by the students, and their my priorities rather than the student priorities. �[Barbara] It's a combination of two things. I think one is an almost Calvinistic sense that there's sin, you know, that you can't trust people. Okay? In the conventional educational. And also, the notion that the knowledge that's being imparted is real knowledge, you know, in the most Biblical sense. "This is the truth, so you learn it, kid." As versus saying: "This was the truth, but look at the mess the world is in. Let's find out together what we can do better." [Morse] Right and the students come wanting to learn what that truth is. They want to learn: "What are the things that I must know to get a job." Whereas what we teach them are more strategies to facilitate them once they've decided what the job is that they want to get. I mean it's sort of different… it seems in some ways like it's the same, but it's not, for it. I mean if someone comes and they say: "I want to learn media because I'm interested in working in the health care professions." Then you teach the media to try to help and reach that goal. If someone comes and says: "I want to learn media because my high school teacher told me that it might be an interesting thing for me to do." It's just a different… you know, you're talking on a whole different level of approach of education. The students come with different expectations. [Barbara] Can you do an introduction of yourself using your name, please? [Morse] Well, yes. I'm Deanna Morse and I came to William James in 1979. And before that I had done artist in the schools work for about four years and had gotten my master’s degree through Goddard College – which is an alternative school in Vermont – and had done commercial production work before them. [Barbara] Can you name the students that you feel the proudest of in all these years? [Morse] Well, it's hard to name just one. But some of the people that I feel good about are some of the recent graduates that I've stayed in touch with like Susie Zach and Maggie Anareno [?], who are people that are working commercially, locally, and had a sense of questioning when they came into college and are still questioning, somewhat, what they're doing working commercially in media. Some of our current students have a lot of the same qualities and I still feel real good about them so I don't mean to say that when James closed, you know, it's like a whole different ballpark. I really don't see a total difference in terms of the number or the quality of students. But it does seem to me that entering students are coming for a different reason than they came when they were at James. [Barbara] I can think of just one more question right now. When I was interviewing Rose Willey, she was talking about… she almost got accusatory and she stopped herself. She said: "The school… one of the explicit goals of the school was to be change oriented. Future oriented. When real change came, and they tried to close us down, what did you have, what did you have to teach us?" Do you feel, �like, guilty because we didn't save the school? [Morse] Oh, no. I thought that at the time the college was threatened, the discussions around the college were really interesting and also reflected the nature of the college a lot. I remember endless council meetings that we had at that time where there was discussion of Dick Gottlieb, and some other people, about moving the college downtown, off campus, you know, this kind of thing. And there was also, I remember, we had faculty workshops where we talked about how we would teach using some of the William James philosophies within the new system. You know that kind of thing. And so, I know that the students probably felt much differently about it than the instructors. And, also, I think in some ways and students… I guess the one thing I do feel guilty about is that it seems to me that at that time some of the instructors, myself included, saw the change with somewhat of a sense of relief because at least it meant that we would be moving into what we perceived to be as stable environment. And that we wouldn't be spending our lives feeling threatened at all times and feeling on the defensive at all times. And I think some of the students were responding with anger towards faculty. And I felt a bit like I was one of the people that was justifiably hit with that anger at that time. Because I just felt that the continued threats were not worth it, at that point. It seemed to make more sense just to have the college be closed. [Barbara] Do you have anything? [Inaudible] Check back in. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource William James College Interviews Description An account of the resource Videotaped interviews of William James College faculty, students and administrators by Barbara Roos. William James College opened in 1971 as the third baccalaureate degree granting college for Grand Valley. It was originally designed to be an interdisciplinary, non-departmentalized college consisting of concentration programs, rather than majors. Curriculum was organized around three concentrations that were meant to be interdisciplinary career preparation offerings: Social Relations, Administration and Information Management, and Environmental Studies. The college was discontinued in 1983 during a reorganization of Grand Valley. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/69">William James College faculty and student interviews (GV016-16)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Universities and colleges Oral histories Alternative education Interdisciplinary approach in education Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roos, Barbara (Interviewer) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV016-16 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV016-16_GVSU_41_Morse Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Morse, Deanna Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984 Title A name given to the resource Deanna Morse interview (2 of 2, video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Interview with Deanna Morse by Barbara Roos, documenting the history of Grand Valley State's William James College. William James College was the third baccalaureate degree granting college for Grand Valley. It was originally designed to be an interdisciplinary, non-departmentalized college consisting of concentration programs, rather than majors. The college opened in 1971 and was discontinued in 1983 during a reorganization of Grand Valley State. Deanna Morse was an Arts and Media faculty member in William James College from 1979 to 1981. In this interview, Deanna discusses the qualities of William James students and her personal journey that led her to teach at WJC, in addition to her final thoughts on the college's closing. This interview is part 2 of 2 for Deanna Morse. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Roos, Barbara (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Universities and colleges Oral histories Alternative education Interdisciplinary approach in education Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/69">William James College faculty and student interviews (GV016-16)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b1c0b68ede4de520b37a6a69daa6608a.pdf d8d9bddd88c90ede36718c3e84dfeae4 PDF Text Text Speaking Out Western Michigan’s Civil Rights Histories Grand Valley State University Special Collections Interviewee: James Morton Interviewers: Seph Morkes Supervising Faculty: Kim Buechek Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 2/16/2012 Runtime: 00:41:58 Biography and Description James Morton talks about his family’s experience immigrating to the United States during the big flight of Puerto Ricans of the 1950s. He also discusses his experiences with discrimination in both Queens, New York and West Michigan. Transcript Seph: I am Joe Morkes. I am interviewing James Morton. James, would you, uh, be so kind as to tell me about yourself? James: How much do you want to know? Seph: Well, I’ll probably go through it, but um, any, anywhere you want to start. Because I’m going to ask you where you were born, family life, stuff like that. So you could just take it from the beginning. James: Well, I was born November 11, 1986, uh, in Saint John’s Hospital in Queens, New York. But I was raised from the very next moment in Manhattan. I stayed in Manhattan until I left for college at the University of Buffalo in New York. And then I currently live in Allendale, Michigan pursuing my Masters Degree at Grand Valley State University. I am the son of James Edward Morton, Sr. and Carmen ***. Uh, my mom is of Puerto Rican background born in, um, Guadal, Puerto Rico. And my father is of African American descent and was born in Brooklyn, New York. My parents split when I’m.. Must have been around 2 or 3. So I was raised in a primarily single parent household however my dad was still around, so.. Weekends and that kind of thing. Uh, raised predominately by women. Ah, my mom, my older half sister, and my grandmother, and an assortment of cousins and aunts. Seph: Ok. Um, now you said, uh, your mom was of Puerto Rican descent? James: Uh huh, yep. Page 1 �Seph: Now, is she a first generation, um, Puerto Rican? Um, how was that, like how? James: I guess I would be technically first generation, born here. Seph: Ok. James: I guess I don’t really know how the first and second, um, works. I guess I would be first generation, American born, Puerto Rican. But she was born there, again, in Guadal, Puerto Rico, and I think she moved here, I think she moved to New York when she was 8 years old. Seph: Ok. James: So, during the 50s, during that big flight of Puerto Ricans… Seph: Gotcha. James: … to the United States. Seph: Ok. Um, now, um, are you bilingual, then? James: Naaa, not officially, I wouldn’t say I’m fluent in Spanish but I know when it’s being yelled at me. Seph: Ok. James: No, I mean I’ve obviously picked up some given that half of my family speaks it but I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t claim that I’m bilingual but as far as Spanish, that’s the closest other language that I know. Seph: Mmm hmm. Ok. Um. Now I guess, um. Do you know where, um, your parents met? Um. James: Yea, um, they actually worked, um, I think it was landlord and tenant court for Manhattan. Um. My dad, actually, I believe substituted for her supervisor one day, something like that, and that’s how they initially met. And then, um, they met, um, in the criminal court system. The United Courts of New York. Seph: Ok. Very cool. Um. James: Oh, the Unified Court System of New York. I think that’s what it’s officially called. **** Umbrella companies. **** Seph: Now how about, um, childhood, like as far as schools? Um. Did you go to a public private school? How about telling me a little about that? Page 2 �James: I guess for my first bout with schooling, I went to this program that they had started because my mom worked for the court system so they had this program called “Fed Kids” which was essentially a day care program for employees of both New York State and the Federal Government, uh, essentially day care for civil servants. And, uh, I must have started that, I mean, I may have been, two or three I guess, it’s at whatever age you start interacting with people. And, uh, I mean, that was obviously finger painting and toys. But then I started going to Catholic school in pre-kindergarten. And I assume that must have been, maybe, that might have been three, maybe three into four, because I have a late birthday in November, so. I was always the youngest kid in my class for the most part. And um, did pre-K and Kindergarten at Immaculate Conception School, which was very old school Catholic, and complained about it pretty much every day. I used to stage escapes. I was once found, uh, trying to push open the door at the front of the school. Meanwhile my class was on the 2nd floor, so, no one knows how I got away. Um, and then went to public school for 2 years. That’s where I learned how to fight and to curse and how to be a terrible human being. So I actually volunteered to go back to Catholic school because I realized I was pretty much on the fast track to hell at that point. And, uh, in 3rd grade returned to Immaculate Conception School. It was a K through 12, no a K through 8, and stayed there until I graduated in 8th grade. Then I went to LaSalle Academy, which was a Catholic High School, um, run by the Christian Brothers, which were started by, uh Saint Jean Baptiste de LaSalle and, um, I really enjoyed it. Um, my four years it was one of those, it was, it was very tough obviously, it was a very particular years in a person’s life. Definitely grow and learn a lot. Um, girls were introduced into the mix sorta, but it was an all boy’s school, so, uh. Actually, it’s in hindsight, I actually appreciate that because I feel like it actually kept me focused. And um school wasn’t so bad. Then after that, I went to the University of Buffalo for 5 years. Now I’m at Grand Valley for grad school. Seph: Ok. Um. Then, uh, I’ll probably get a little bit more specific with that, um, as, I might, I might jump back to, um before college, but uh, as far as University of Buffalo, uh, what made you decide on that? What made you decide to go to the University? Was it something that was expected? Was it something that you… *** James: Essentially, uh, I feel that universities and colleges, at least from, I guess the New York perspective.. From like a city like New York where there’s a high demand for higher education, um, and is such a financial center of the world that going to college, it was expected. I mean, I uh, I would have to say that I went to school with a lot of people at, um, at Buffalo that probably were not cut out for college but you weren’t really given too many other options. I remember even for my graduating class I think there were only two or three guys that were just going straight into the work-force, you know, like obviously, I feel it is generally less common, um, but I feel just like in a Metropolitan area like that that Page 3 �it’s, even, you know less so. And um, I actually chose Buffalo kind of, it sounds terrible, but um we have the State University of New York application, but um, because we have our state schools, and you’re supposed to choose 4 schools. I had Stonybrook University was my number one. Um, the University at Albany was my number two. And, uh, SUNY Gennesea *** which was in the middle of nowhere but is a fantastic school was my third. Those were the solid three, like, those were the ones I really wanted to go for and then I was all like, I need a fourth one and I heard Buffalo was alright. So I put down Buffalo and um I get in. They’re interested. They think, um, they think I’m doing um, I could do well. And I got into, um, well I got into all of them actually and just decided… I feel like Buffalo would be a nice change, that it would be different and um, and it’s also the second largest city in New York and I felt um it would be less drastic of a change from home to Buffalo. Uh, that was entirely incorrect. Um, the difference in population, I think… New York City was somewhere around 9 million and Buffalo was about 2 or 3. Seph: Right. James: Which is sounds foolish, but. But uh, it made a huge difference. Also it was an entirely different walk of life. But um, I mean, it was interesting and I’m glad I ended up there. I mean it obviously had its ups and its downs, but. I would say generally it was a nice second home, you know, I’d say for the time being. Seph: Um. When you were in high school, did you play any sports? Or even before? James: No. I guess, um, as far as through the high school, um, theater club, um like drama club was actually my big thing. But, if I had a say a sport throughout high school, um, martial arts I guess would be my sport. Um, I wasn’t really into it for the competitive purpose. I was more into it, I guess, I mean obviously for self-defense. Not that I had really any, any issues with that. It wasn’t like I had the uh hard knock life upbringing, but, um, I really respected the idea and the culture that kind of came along with it, so. It became a really big part of my life. I kept up a little bit during um, my undergraduate at Buffalo, but, just through all the other stuff that I had to do, it kind of died down a little bit. Seph: Was that, um, something you did outside of school? James: Yea. I, uh, I took Kung Fu at a school. It was, um, it was called **** Kung Fu, it was out of Chinatown. And um, I think their system is like the Black Tiger system or something like that. That was like their specialty. But, um, almost every Kung Fu school does like the, they almost have like the geneds of, you know, like Kung Fu, and then I, um, actually started taking up this martial art called ******** from Indonesia. And um, I learned that. One of my sister’s really good friends, he was a uh, a teacher from the Warrior System. Which is this international group of martial artists that, basically take a Page 4 �little bit from different forms of martial arts and put them together because they feel that all martial arts systems for the most part are pretty incomplete. So, put the strengths of all of them together and put a little bit from here and there and you’d make one martial artist that is better rounded than someone who is married to one system. And uh, eventually got exposed to ****** and it’s such an, it’s such a little known system here that he uh basically started hand-picking students to kinda just start working sort of like out of his house was like the original studio. And um, that’s, uh, that was the last system that I learned from. And I really enjoyed it. I still like, remember some stuff, but um. Yea. So that was my sport, I guess. No football. Unlike everyone, uh, every other guy in Michigan. Seph: And that, um, last system… That was when you were in college? James: No, no, no, that was, uh, I’d say junior and senior year of high school. Seph: Ok. Um, now theater… Is that something that uh, you did all throughout high school? James: Yea, for the, for the most part, uh, I was pretty heavily involved from the get-go. I heard it’s where you met girls, so… Kinda jumped at that. But acting had always been something that I liked doing. I did it a few times, actually, before high school. Um, and I don’t know. I guess it just drew me in and I felt like I was actually pretty good at it so. It was something to do. Seph: Ok. Very cool. And now you said a way to meet girls was a, but you were at an all boy’s school.. James: Right. We had girls come from the other, come from the all girls’ schools. ****** girl spots because…Yea, we didn’t want any guys in dresses. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Seph: Um. Ok. Let’s uh, I might be back to some of that stuff in a little bit. James: Ok. Yea, that’s fine. Seph: Um, but, as far as Western Michigan goes, how did you end up coming to Michigan? How did you end up figuring on Grand Valley? And just tell me about that. James: Uh. I guess I would have to say, uh, embarrassingly enough, my biggest motivation was, I saw Grand Valley compete at a cheerleading Nationals in Daytona. Uh I guess it was what? 3… Yea, about three years ago, I guess. And um, I just saw them and kind of thought cheerleading was a sport that I got into really late in college. Um, I played rugby before that, as you know, and, um, I just thought, well I mean I had thought about obviously school after college, especially because I was a history undergrad, so… There’s not much that you can do with that by itself and I decided that well, maybe I can get this cheerleading thing to start paying for some of my education and I looked into Grand Valley and found Page 5 �that they actually had a Masters of education program for adult and higher ed. It was basically half education, half history. I thought “Wow, that’s actually pretty perfect.” Because I think that I should have some sort of education background as well as history. And, um, I basically, I had a talk with one of my old teammates. I was just looking for something new. I mean at that point I had pretty much outgrown Buffalo. And I wasn’t ready to go back home yet. Not out of an I don’t want to move back in with, you know, my mom, but more of a, I felt like I still had some growing to do and I didn’t think, I didn’t think I was going to get, um, I was going to get back home, so… I had even contemplated just moving somewhere, like maybe like Nebraska, or you know, like one of those white states that we don’t know much about. And then Michigan came up with Grand Valley, so I thought “Grand Rapids? Michigan? Never heard of it. Maybe I should.” ***** should do it. I wanted to see if I could transplant myself to some place and um, you know, make it work. Work around it and see how the rest of the country was and get out of my New York state of mind, so… That’s essentially how I kind of ended up out here. Seph: Ok, and uh… I don’t mean to take a step back, but you mentioned that you cheer. James: Yea. Seph: You mentioned rugby. Um, and a little bit about outgrowing Buffalo… But um, taking a step back to Buffalo, um, how was your experience there? Um, your undergrad experience. Uh, you know, can you tell me any funny stories or anything you want? James: Right. Seph: About how you got into dabbling with rugby and how’d you get into cheer? James: Well, I guess I’ll tell the rugby and cheer stories first because those are, I feel like, the easiest ones. Um, rugby had been one of those sports, growing up in New York City, we had field sports, but not to the same degree as like, I guess, places with space for them. So, rugby had been um that sport that I would randomly catch on tv, you know, like, other like random cable, you know, ESPN like channels that show, those kind of, those kind of channels. And um, I saw rugby and every time I saw it, it was just so exciting. You know, I instantly was just instantly enthralled, just completely, just, it would, all my attention would be invested in rugby and I thought it was the most amazing sport. But, I guess in a sense, coming from the United States, it’s not around the corner, you have to kind of look for rugby. It’s a little more difficult to track down. And um, I would have to say a big downside to places like New York City is because of how, I guess, urban they are. It’s so expensive to do quote unquote like special sports. Like hockey, um, I think to just to join a league is like $3,000 a year or something like that. And that’s just, Page 6 �that’s just hockey, which is something people around here just do for fun. So, um, so rugby had always been something that interested me and then I ended up in Buffalo. Found out that they had a rugby team. And um, one of my fraternity brothers was on it. And so, talked to him and he was just like “Oh, you could come out to a practice.” And that’s how, you know, I got involved. Uh, really loved it. Had nothing, nothing negative about it at all. Like I mean, obviously, there’s like that rowdiness that comes along with rugby but, I didn’t mind it with them so much because they were rowdy, but they were good. So, it was nice to, it was, it was almost like cheating to instantly like walk onto a good team. And, um, obviously, I wasn’t on the A team, like you know, initially, just, you know, kind of went on and the coaches just said to go out there and figure it out. So… I mean it was fun. Um. It was a good season. And then, I, uh, dabbled in um, stand-up comedy, actually, for a while. And the president of our University of Buffalo Stand-Up Comic Society, the acronym UB SUCS, which they never caught on, um, he shows up to one of our meetings one day and he’s telling us, he’s like “Oh, I’m gonna go out for cheerleading tomorrow.” So we’re just like “Wait, what are you talking about?” and apparently his roommate had gotten approached by a girl in the gym. She said that she was a cheerleader and he should come out. So he goes home, and he’s like “This girl asked me to try out for cheerleading so this kid Andrew is all “I’m gonna go out and do it, you know, tell me the time.” So I hear about it, and I’m just like “That’d be brilliant for material. Like I should go to, like I should have a story about cheerleading tryouts that’s like ridiculous, obviously.” So I went there totally for the wrong reasons. Went there entirely to just drudge the hell out of them and make jokes about it and like, actually, you know, just try to push this, like, comedy career, um, off of it. And, um, from day one, it was one of those, like wow, this is actually pretty cool *** and, um, eventually and I didn’t know *** These are teammates that I still value their friendship, like amazingly, today. They’re just, um, some of, I would say, the best friends I ever made in my life and it’s probably how I got pulled into cheerleading. It was basically on a, not even on a, not a dare, just like on a joke, essentially. It was a joke and then I stuck with it. Um, but as far as my experience in Buffalo, I mean, I feel like, for the most part, it was definitely a generic experience, you know, you get like exposed to drinking and stuff, you know, very early. And everyone is like “Oh my God, this is awesome!” But I was part of that, um, small number of people that, I would say after a little bit, I was all like “I’ve had enough of this and I think there’s more to life than getting drunk every night.” And um, it definitely put a lot of weight on me to better myself. Um. Not like I was going down a bad path, but just, um, it definitely gave me the realization that if there was something out there that I wanted, I just had to go out and take it. And I had to work at it. And, if you put the work in or you put, or if you have the drive enough, like anything is possible. Um, I would have to say Buffalo, the University of Buffalo, was a fairly diverse school. Um, majority white, as, I would say that Buffalo is almost like a mid-west colony. So it kind of reminds me of schools around here. But, um, very diverse. Even Page 7 �internationally. Um, my freshman year, I lived on the international floor of my dorm which was because they ran out of rooms for normal people, so.. I ended up there and my roommates- one was from Turkey and one was from Hong Kong. And that was sweaty, so… ** laughter ** So I mean, it was, it was a little rough- the transition in the beginning. It was, I would have to say, one of those first nights in college. Just wasn’t awesome, but, um… I remember, actually, the 2nd night of my college career, um, my roommate had gotten invited to a party at the German house, um, on campus, well, not on, like right off campus and that was, I guess, if anything, that was essentially, like my first party of my freshman year, and everyone was from a different country and like it was, but it was cool. You know what I mean? It was just very different, um, and obviously I thought that I was going to meet like different people at college. Had no idea that it would be like that different so quickly. And, um, then, once I started getting into the swing of things, I started meeting everyone, made stupid freshman mistakes that I will spare from this interview, but, uh… I mean it was, it was good. There was no, um, I didn’t have any I guess, terrible situations, um… I tried the fraternity thing my first semester. You weren’t supposed to because first semester freshman aren’t supposed to pledge at UB. Um, so I thought I was such a bad ass, and… But then I mean, it was weird though, because I remember being in it, and I was in there for maybe 2 or 3 weeks, and I mean, we’re talking about like sleepless nights, just up late doing stupid shit the entire time and um, I like went to, uh, … the fraternity I was pledging had a party and they were just um, ripping on these girls like for no reason. Just ripping on these girls going just like *** our pledge master actually came down and he was like super drunk and he was talking about like these girls that he just, like, “Oh, I got her to blow me, you know, and I just tossed to her the side and like whatever…” And I realized, and I was like “I think the fraternity thing is really cool and all but *** misconstrued notions on how awesome it is.” Um, but I just thought, um, what means more to me? Getting letters on a shirt or being associated with these guys and I told *** “No disrespect, but I don’t think this is for me.” I mean, it was primarily because I thought that they were just terrible people and I figured, like, a fraternity is, like, it, it runs deep. It’s like the closest thing to a family that you have. I don’t want to be “your” family. It’s just not, I don’t, I don’t stand for the same things “you” stand for. So, um, I quit them. Obviously, I was like blacklisted from them the rest of my college career. And uh, then I ended up joining a business fraternity the next year. Um, the next fall, actually. And that was Alpha Kappa Psi (sp??) and I finished through that one. Um, it was co-ed so it was a little bit different. A lot cattier. And um, I mean I liked it because it was a fraternity and I still got that sense of brotherhood and had hilarious stories. I mean I, I feel like I have like classic fraternity stories with um AK Psi (sp??). Um, but I felt like it was a fraternity with purpose. You know, I mean, it wasn’t just a matter of, it wasn’t just a social group, it was a uh, it was a coming together of like-minded people for, I guess, to ah, pursue like personal passions and personal like motivations and um… I really enjoyed it and… Yea, I mean Buffalo was interesting because it wasn’t New York. It Page 8 �wasn’t like New York City at all. Um, it was an entirely different walk of people. Um, one of the girls, actually, from AK Psi (sp?), she told stories, joked around, but she wasn’t joking about how I was her first black friend. And um, actually, um, I dated one girl while I was up there and she was saying that I was pretty much like her third black friend or something like that. Like it always came up. *** Yea, exactly. And um, you know? It was, it was, it was the time, I mean, it was one of those… Yea, I guess class happened, um, for the most part, I was just figuring out who I was and stuff. And um, I guess ironically, um, I kinda became who I was while I was there but I didn’t realize it until I got here. Because, if anything, Michigan has been like the final exam and it’s… I would have to say it’s tough to go somewhere new and not… I guess, and not assimilate completely because, I guess I’ve reached a point in my life where I know certain things about myself that I like or at least I, that I value in my head as good. And… Those are things I just won’t let go of, you know what I mean? I mean it’s… on some degree it could be considered stubborn but I feel… I guess because I’ve been transplanted a couple of times now… You start to grab onto the things you feel identify yourself. You know what I mean? Um, I mean… My skin’s brown, so that’s always a *** for the identity issue but there are certain ideals and certain things I hold, I guess, I guess, I would say I hold dear to my heart that I feel um, you know, define me as a person regardless of like I guess the obvious stuff or you know, like, where I’m from. There’s just like the characteristics or the, uh, principles I hold… that um, I guess you don’t find everywhere. I didn’t realize that was one of those, I thought, I just assumed everyone learned the same set of values— some people just choose to ignore them. But, I have also learned that’s not always the case. And there are other values, you know, there are other values out there that, I mean work for some people, and there are others things that I’ve seen that are good, but, you know, aren’t for me necessarily, so… Seph: Um, actually that leads *** into, um, I mean, how would you, how would you uh, describe your own identity? James: In what respect? Seph: I mean, um, well you were just talking about how there’s things you hold onto and uh make you, I guess, the person that you see yourself as… James: Ok, yea… Seph: And I mean honestly, that could be whatever you want to do with that question. James: Well, I mean, I guess, uh, I’d have to say, I guess there’s, there’s two identities I feel we all have. We all have our American identity and then our universal identity in my opinion, um… As far as identifying myself, I’m… African American, Hispanic American, American American. And uh, I mean, Page 9 �but I would have to say, universally I’m I guess, in a sense it was like hard to accept, but like at the end of the day, um, as far as like upbringing goes, it was very ordinary, um, you know, I feel like I, I could be wrong but I feel like I had an upbringing just like anybody else, um… You know, forced to go to church every Sunday. You know, hating on it every Sunday. Um, you know, learning about all these traditions and all these, I guess, um, traits of gentlemanly conduct that were like infused into my brain and the thing I didn’t get was I didn’t see it anywhere else and I didn’t know what was like going on. And um… Oh, I forgot to mention this before… My dad is, um, my dad is 88 years old, so.. my dad’s up there. And um, I mean, truth be told, it was like one of those things that, when I was younger, you don’t notice the difference but I realize, now that I’m older, THAT definitely was like a huge thing because like my dad’s coming from like literally the old school. He’s coming from a very, like, almost structured gentlemanly uh code of conduct, you know, that we don’t have anymore and you know, I mean it really is.. um… And now we do the whole “We know what you meant.” Or you know, just get to the point… Like we almost have less patience for this almost societal dance, I guess that *** you know like being a gentleman is. And um, a lot of it communicates in the way that I dress and a lot of it communicates in um, like formal attire and stuff. Like I don’t *** all the weird little rules and stuff, and I don’t mean this in a condescending way at all, most people my age don’t know that they would even have to look for rules, you know, regarding this. Um even uh, even I would have to say, uh, like dating… There are certain things I just um, won’t do.. One thing that apparently blows the mind of everyone around here is um, I guess I come from a background where, let’s say I have a friend and he’s in pursuit of Girl X, or something like that. No matter how beautiful, or how amazing Girl X is, my friend has made it clear that is the girl for him and he’s chasing after her… I’ll, I’ll help him… I won’t pursue that. I feel like it’s ungentlemanly to go for another man’s girl, in a sense. And I don’t mean that in an ownership way at all. But I feel that it is more like a respect from one individual to another. Um, also, um in treatment of women… I feel like there’s, I’d have to say I’m an owner of like a modified chivalry. Um, I feel that women should be respected. Uh, and as far as, uh, female roles in society, I’m entirely against subservient women, um, I mean, I came from an all women’s household so, um, I obviously have a different view of the abilities and strengths of women and um… I truly feel that there, um, biologically obviously there’s a lot of difference, but, as far as ability goes, I mean if you’re thinking about sports, yes there’s a few hurdles that girls have to get past that, um, men don’t, but… um, for the most part I feel, you know, they’re, I guess almost to an extent *** should almost treat women better than men because I’m coming from a different, I’m almost educated from that old school on how to treat women. Um, but even in, um, the way you approach people, um, like not gender specific at all, uh, one thing I notice I do is, if I’m wearing a baseball cap or like that… When I talk to someone, like, let’s say at a store and I need to ask someone a question, I always take off my hat. And it’s a very weird thing. I mean even I noticed it Page 10 �like once in a Subway, you know, like restaurant. I take my hat off and ask someone a question, or like I tell them my order type of thing. I just feel there are certain little, there are certain little like, quirks to me that I um attribute to my upbringing and stuff. I mean it’s one of those, at first I thought it was weird, but I guess now, I guess now that I don’t see it so much I kind of value it as being a part of me. Um, little stuff like that. I’m sure there’s thousands of more little instances but, I mean I guess I’d have to identify myself as a generally good and moral person. Obviously not perfect at all. Um, but I feel that generally my motivation is the betterment of myself on the, you know, universal scale- like, so, morally, academically, professionally, etc. Um, and, I mean, as far as cutthroat nature, especially in the business world today, I’m just not about that. I, I’m.. I guess I’m more, I guess I’m more focused on like harmony and peace… Not in a hippie way, but, obviously I accept that, you know, things can’t always be happy… Things can’t, no, everyone can’t always win. But, you know, there’s no excuse for mistreating other people. I mean, even if they deserve it sometimes, I mean, essentially there’s, you know, there’s some occasions where there, *** essentially but, um, like just little stuff like being rude.. I just feel life’s too short to treat anyone less than anyone else in a sense, you know. Don’t just talk to people when you want something from them. Don’t just talk to people when you want their money. You know, just talk to people. In a sense, just enrich your human experience. That’s kind of, I guess, how I identify myself as just being a, I guess, in a sense, almost like a humanist romantic kind of thing, like… Everything is beautiful. Everything is terrible but you just have to make it work and get along, you know, make things keep going. Essentially. Seph: Ok. That’s awesome. Um. And then, I mean, I guess, I’m going to ask you a few more things. I don’t mean to pigeon hole you but, it’s just uh. Um. That was great. Um. But I guess, um, you mentioned a little bit um, on sort of religious upbringing. Do you… uh… how do you feel about your religion? How would you say *** ? James: Religious upbringing was uh, it was a little, it was a little awkward, I guess, because I was born and baptized Catholic. My mom was Puerto Rican, so… Obviously any place in the world that is Spanish influenced is Catholic for the most part. They were very good on selling Jesus and Company. But, um, when I was about, I must have been 5, my uh, one of my mom’s good friends invited her to her church and it was a, uh, nondenominational church. Um, however, I believe it had more of a Pentacostal style so, Protestant, and um… My mom went to it. And my mom is very, very religious. Very, she was very strict Catholic but she played it by the book, you know, she was very structured, you know, everything had to go along with uh what the Bible said. Once she got this experience of this more, in a sense organic, religious experience to her, she converted to Protestantism and um, I was caught in the middle because I was going to Catholic school. So I’m going to Catholic school 5 days a week and then I’m going to Bible Page 11 �school at this new place one day a week trying to relearn everything that I just learned over the last week essentially. And um, obviously when you’re 5, you get dragged into whatever your parents get dragged into, so… I, uh, became, uh, Pentacostal eventually I was baptized in the Pentacostal church. And, um, I would say up until high school is about when my mom was a little, I guess, less adamant about me going to church. Made it more about oh, if you want to go. And um, it would be one of those things where once in a while I’d like go, um… Actually just had a flashback to the one night, there was a very special like teen focus thing, um, I must have been 16 and I think that was the first night I ever got drunk. So I didn’t go and I felt really terrible cuz when my mom asked me how it was and I said “Ya had to be there,” and… Which is the most, uh, appropriate lie, but… *** (laughter) But it was um, I guess it’s one of those things where, um… Went to Buffalo *** obviously more churchy things. I eventually just kind of just lost the taste for um my mom’s church. I, I didn’t really like the people that were there. At least the more obvious people that were there and I, um, kind of resting in a school of thought where, I mean, I went to Catholic school my whole life. I, um, I know all of the moves, um you know all of the ideas, I know all of the principles and… I always, I guess, I always refer to myself as a freelance Christian, where if anyone were to ask me what am I, I would say a Christian. I wouldn’t deny it or anything like that. It’s like, nothing ever changed but I am less vocal about it because, for me personally, it’s kind of just my personal guide. It’s just how, it’s, if anything, it’s a system of morals that I choose as, um, as like my, um, moral structure but… um, I just, I guess I never mix with a group that I’m like that very big into and… Church always gets too religious. It becomes, just, um, it becomes just very routine and very perfunctory. Part of me thinks that’s not really the idea. You know what I mean? I mean I feel like we’re supposed to believe in a living deity doing the same thing at the same time every week may not be exactly what he’s into. And I mean, uh, it could be. I guess that’s like obviously the idea that most people like have. But I feel, if you live your life and, I guess, I, let’s say, let’s take a week out of your life and you can reflect and you see that every interaction you had with someone, a stranger or someone from *** and look at how you dealt with the situation. Look at how you deal with situations placed upon you. What did you act.. I feel if you act kind of with that, um, Christian background, that kind of like moral push behind you, I feel in a sense you’re always at church in a sense. You know what I mean? Like, you don’t just have to just be good because you’re singing songs and you know, doing all the prayers in front of other people. Like if you kind of have that, um, that Christianity in your life and in your normal actions, I feel essentially that’s like the main point, you know what I mean? So… Seph: Awesome. Um. How about, uh, politically? James: Politically what? Seph: Which way do you swing? Page 12 �James: Oh. I mean, it’s weird, actually. I guess if I had to choose for myself, I would have to, probably claim moderate. Which is weird because I’m black. But, um, I feel as far as liberalism goes, I’m definitely more into *** well, I once took a class that was divided into liberalism and conservatism *** Being a conservative is like being a father. You’re not as forgiving as the mother. You want people to kind of like toughen up and get themselves like out of their situations. And then liberalism is more like the mother, the nurturer, the one, oh you know, you fell down, let me help you up… That kind of thing. So obviously programs like welfare, that kind of thing would be under the Liberal umbrella. But, personally I feel there’s a mix. I mean with every dichotomy you can’t ever truly pick one side. I mean, even, I mean even between things like good and bad. I mean yea, you can try to be good all the time, but there’s some situations where you have to be a little rough. You know, you don’t necessarily have to do the nice thing. Well, nice and mean, I guess, would be a little more appropriate than good and bad. But, um, so I would say moderate. I agree that some people, well, I guess that all people should be given the opportunity to have some sort of assistance, uh, especially, I mean economically, like obviously it happens, you know, I mean as far as programs like *** what welfare used to be and like um, obviously are very good in my opinion. I do feel that while given assistance, people should not necessarily be held unaccountable. So, and more of like, I guess like a Republican or a Conservative view… You still have to get yourself out of it, but we’re willing to help you. It’s almost like… It’s like I am a fan of helping those that will help themselves kind of thing. So… I’m kind of right in the middle where, especially, um… Like, uh, I guess, uh, I guess since we’re in Michigan, the whole auto industry situation. Um, I understood and didn’t understand the whole bail out thing. However, I guess, in the long run, I guess I appreciate that it happened because… On the one hand, you can’t, you can’t disregard the well-being of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people based on the wrong-doings of certain corporate head men, you know. But, um, by helping them out, things have actually kind of turned around, so… Like you can’t punish them because of them, but you have to give them the money in order for it to get to them. So there’s almost like a catch-22 type of situation where the people that mishandled the money are the ones that are getting the money again, which, you know, doesn’t make sense, but, um… It sounds as though the federal government held them a lot, um, very accountable for everything that’s going on. I heard that, um, GM is now, um, back to number one car producer, um, brand in the world again. So, I mean, it’s one of those… It worked out, though, I would say it was more of a Liberalist idea. Um, and, I mean as far as the whole, I mean like the big Republican thing is like picking yourself up from the boot straps. Like, oh my family was poor, my grandfather worked really hard, so that’s how we got our money. That kind of thing. I mean that’s like the generic, like, you know, Conservative, like background story. And, um, I guess it’s like one of those things where I’m *** I’ve been in a lot of situations like where uh, you know, I’ve been blessed with a lot of assistance, like, from my family and just like a lot of support, but… when Page 13 �it comes down to actually doing things, like nothing was like handed, you know, to me. Like you have to actually work at it, you actually have to put the effort in. And, um, I guess… Seph: Well…I heard you were a vegetarian… James: well a pescetarian; I had the unfortunate duty of cleaning out a meat locker filled with rotten meat. Back in August my mom got our apartment painted and the painters forgot to re-plug the freezer and I am the one who discovered it and so obviously as a service to my mom, I cleaned it up and it was terrible. So ever since then I chose not to eat meat; just one of those…I was kind of traumatized and just thought: I don’t feel comfortable eating anything that could become what I saw so…I am a pescetarian, and I guess I realized that in a weird way, I kind of justified being a pescetarian after the fact of becoming one, just to see if there were any good enough reasons to return back to it; to meat eating rather, and I actually realized it sounds dumb...but I guess…you always hear about all the hormones and additives that they add to...rather that they put into beef and chicken and um I’d have to say in my daily life I feel: I guess I feel better, its easier to wake up in the morning; you don’t feel so crappy or lousy the next day and I mean its one of those where it could be a placebo effect or I guess I like to think that its not given that I wasn’t expecting it and then after a while I just kind of felt: ohh I feel a little better, um I don’t feel as lousy, I mean not that I woke up every morning feeling achy, but I just didn’t really feel…I guess as held down as I had previously and uh I like to attribute that to the… I guess lack of all the other stuff in my diet and being a pescetarian had an inadvertent advantage where as far as going to McDonald’s and stuff there is nothing for me there…so you kind of just cut out your crappy eating just by getting that. And I mean again, that just comes down to food and regulations and that kind of stuff but I mean I guess if I had to have a view on it: I understand that obviously preserving food but I guess I disagree with the effects on my body, that I assume are occurring…so I am not an obnoxious vegetarian. I don’t bash people that eat meat; I don’t try to talk people out of it at all. If I have people ask me, I’ll tell them but I mean I try to keep it pretty flexible; its easy to eat around stuff…I mean every restaurant has salads luckily and usually does have fish, so its pretty easy. Seph: Uh…well I guess last question on identity and this can be background or economically…how was growing up? What kind of…I guess…you know, rich? Poor? James: well, I guess from what my mom used to hint, we were the middle-middle class; we were at that point in the middle class where I mean obviously I guess that upper-middle class is not even a bad place to be now a days; like upper-middle class you’re doing really well, living comfortably, you know…you can afford to do things you like to do, but I guess in a sense you still have that discipline where you know…you obviously cannot spend frivolously. Then there’s lower-middle class, where it’s like yay! We Page 14 �live in a good neighborhood but we still live paycheck to pay check. Then there’s middle-middle class, where everyone neglects you; you are not comfortable enough to live like the upper-middle class but your not poor enough to get any help like the lower-middle class, and so it was definitely a struggle…I mean on my mom’s part…like it wasn’t like one of those things where I’ve been working in a store since I was eight years old or anything like that. Um…my mom was very big on providing for my sister and myself…I mean I guess I would have to say as far as how I was raised…I don’t know if it was a product of my upbringing but I guess I never really grew up wanting more but I also didn’t ask for stuff all the time…you know what I mean? Seph: yeah James: So…I guess there’s really nothing else that could have been added to my childhood that I thought would have made it so much better. But I guess I wasn’t the kid who was asking for a playstation…playstation 2, at every holiday when one came out…you know what I mean?...so I would say I was happy; like I said there was never a time when I was just wanting anything just because…I guess it was instilled in me to appreciate what you have…so it was easy like as far as eating and stuff; like there was always food on the table…you know…always family around, so it wasn’t a bad cake to be born into. Seph: Okay, were gonna take a slight change in pace…I want to know about how much you’ve traveled…and if traveling has basically affected your identity or just uh…affected your life…? James: well, I guess as far as far as the obvious travels: moving from New York to Buffalo and Buffalo to here; uh they were different. I guess as far as moving here particularly, it added to my identity because it in a sense identified my identity; it really gave it shape because I was able to contrast it with what was around me. In my life I’ve traveled…I guess I’ve traveled a bit. I have family in California, went over there. I have family in Atlanta…around Atlanta, so I’ve been down there. I’ve been to Philadelphia a few times, went to Texas a couple of years ago, just went to Hawaii last year. I mean I guess as far as the United States goes I still have a lot of sight seeing to do…but uh I’m interested in it, I feel when you…its one of those…traveling is one of those interesting things where yeah there’s people everywhere but its kind of different when you see them everywhere. You know what I mean…and its weird to think that were all human beings, were all built the same way but were not the same in any way, shape, or form. When I was 10 years old I went to London, actually I went to England for the first time, I haven’t been back there since but that was the first time out of the country…and obviously been to Canada a few times. And Canada was a good time; in Canada we had some good family friends and met some people up there and uh, London the same thing; actually London was a weird situation because my dad and his uh Page 15 �girlfriend took me and every…I was 10…so as far as eating goes all I ate was pizza and chicken nuggets…you know what I mean…like you’re a picky eater, even though you don’t really know what you like and you think you hate everything. I found uh…there was a pizzeria at the base of our hotel that served…well in England I guess the rest of Europe…what we know as a plain slice, is a margarita of pizza. Has nothing to do with margaritas but…you know…so I was like oh margarita! Cause I look at it…and I look at the description and I'm like this is normal pizza…and I uh ate every night that we were in London, by myself, at this one place because they had pizza. And like my dad and I went the first night, and my dads like “I’m not gonna come to London and eat at the same place every night”, so he sends his 10 year old son into the world by himself to do this. And, I remember…I don’t know if it was my first taste of…what do you call it…I don’t know…maybe socializing with the opposite gender. But I remember I had this one waitress every night, then like the day before I left I was like I’m leaving soon, and decided to start talking and um I guess that was one of the first times I was out of my element, had sort of gotten a little bit comfortable, and decided…what’s the worst that could happen if you just talk to people. And I mean your 10 so its not like I’m trying to sleep with her…you know what I mean…you can just talk to people. Uh…and I guess the next big trip. I used to go to Puerto Rico as well…I forgot to mention that; I used to go to Puerto Rico almost every summer and spend some time with my grandma for about 2 or 3 months every summer. How I don’t know Spanish is embarrassing but it kind of happens…so uh what do you call it…well I guess my next big trip was when I was 14...no I was…yeah I must have been 14; I went to Australia and New Zealand, which was really exciting and also with the rugby thing it was a little bit more prevalent over there so it was exciting to watch that and soccer. And I…uh well I mean Australia was a blast, but one experience that’s always been with me is…I went to stay with the Mayoree people when I was in New Zealand, and we stayed there for 2 nights and it was actually really interesting; we had a big group, I think there was maybe 20 of us or something like that. And we all slept in one room on the floor, I mean it was a big room…but we were just like on the floor, just like a communal hall type of thing and um the Mayoree people that we stayed with were just …it was the strangest thing…I have never had such a familiar feeling with people…like I met them and they kind of felt like family type of thing; like very easy to talk to, very friendly, just like very caring. And in my head I'm just like wow I am meeting you for the first time and we are getting along; like it is going both ways and it was I guess in a weird sociological way I'm just like wow people are pretty awesome you know what I mean…you can go all over the world and people are just people…you know…I don’t know anything about them and they don’t know anything about me, but we can get along and realize that we have things in common; like meanwhile our backgrounds are entirely different and I guess in a sense that was a part of…that may have been one of the things that I started emphasizing who am I, what am I offering the world in a sense, and also I guess as more as a support it kind of makes me think and reaffirm Page 16 �the fact that alright maybe I am doing something right, like I am meeting these people for the first time and their like alright with me type of thing…you know…I wasn’t trying to like kiss ass cause I was 14…you know…but yeah like I would have to say traveling has definitely added a lot to my identity because it reinforced the need for an identity as well as maybe even pushed me a little bit to be more concerned about what my identity was as far as what other people were seeing. Seph: very cool, and then going on the subject of identity…I guess growing up or in adulthood did you ever feel like you were treated differently? James: oh absolutely! I mean, I would have to say the story of my life is: I was never black enough and I was never Hispanic enough…like definitely a huge thing and then obviously I wasn’t white so I couldn’t play with them…but I mean…whoa…uh..but I mean its not like I grew up in Jim Crow south or anything like that. But it was one of those things were I guess when I was really young, you were…I was always the black kid playing with white kids; it wasn’t like a kids playing with kids type thing. But my neighborhood was actually very diverse, which I appreciated; id have to say the 2 most prominent nationalities…not nationalities…I’d say ethnicities were um…Irish and Pilipino actually. Which were obviously different ends of the spectrum, but I feel like if anything that definitely eased me into everything a lot easier. Hanging out with my dad on the weekends, I guess my weekends were a little more ethnic for me, but then my Puerto Rican side of my family has always been very involved. And it’s a very big family as well so; I mean that was always awesome. I would have to say I would have to identify more with my Puerto Rican roots then my black roots but, that’s also because my Puerto Rican roots are a little bit fresher because my mom is from Puerto Rico, so it’s a little bit easier to connect to that. And as far as growing up in high school, yeah, like it was one of those: oh, you’re black but you’re like not that black, like you act white you know that kind of thing, or like oh!, you’re Puerto Rican but you’re kind of black so, eh, you know what I mean. So like basically because I didn’t speak in the same, I guess, tonovenacular as everybody else, so that off the bat was a little bit weird. But, my mom; its almost like her mission in life was to make sure that I spoke properly, and I guess I feel like coming from where she’s coming from type of thing; to have someone speak properly and if anything, kind of like assimilate socially as far as like having tools to succeed, I mean like I would have to say in a messed up way, I think it has given me an advantage because lets say I have the same requirements as someone who is ethnically exactly like me but they talk with a little bit more of a, like you know, they have like a, they act like you know I’ve got a little bit more swagger, I have a little bit more, like you know…attitude in their speech but I can speak the language and speech properly. Eh I’m gonna have that little bit of that like, off the bat, like kind of like a push and personally I guess I really admire language and I think that language is very important and I also feel when you learn enough about language, you…like, I don’t know…language in Page 17 �itself is its own art form. And I feel that you can continuously learn more about a language which is in a sense I feel like my bastardized justification for why I don’t speak any other languages; is because I’m not done learning English is how I guess I kind of face it, you know what I mean so uh…its just one of those weird things where just growing up; I guess I’ve always been different and just because, like I said, I wasn’t black enough and wasn’t Puerto Rican enough, but I wasn’t trying to be anything else either so…for I guess a long part of my identity, I just thought that I was like by myself, you know what I mean and its kind of…but its like I worked with other people but I was never really part or anything else. I mean I guess its one of those: something that’s kind of carried on with me a little bit more, you know, my entire life, but I mean I guess its one of those that used to bother me a lot but now not so much. I guess I just figure there…like I said it is part of my identity; its part of who I am, and I can obviously mix with other people but there are going to be some things that are just for me, which I guess isn’t a bad thing… Seph: Going kind of on that same line, not to kill that subject, but uh…moving to West Michigan, was there a shift? Did you notice maybe a different sort of treatment? James: I noticed, well I would have to say one of the things I noticed right off the bat was that I felt that well generally the population is much whiter over here which…um…I mean, its like I’ve been to white towns before and stuff like that so it wasn’t even a matter of like oh, I don’t feel comfortable here, its just like oh, I happen to notice everyone here is white, that kind of thing. And one thing I noticed when I started coming here though, is I felt that everyone that saw me at a public place like a supermarket or something like that was… (door creaks open) Seph: what’s up? Ha, of course I'm doing an interview. James:…everyone that saw me, I felt was like very nice, so I felt that like especially, with me rolling in: my car has New York plates, I don’t look like I’m from around here or anything like that so I guess in a sense I stuck out, but people were…like overly nice to maybe compensate for it, which I don’t know if they were maybe other motivations for it but it was just like one of those: oh, everyone here is like really nice, I guess, you know its kind of how it worked. And I guess there were just simple traditionalist and ideological differences I noticed when I came to west Michigan, such as I mean, well I guess its like really religious based around here, which is cool, I mean whatever works, and um…everyone gets married when they are like 17 which is kind of different, I mean…kind of weird but um…I mean if anything I guess I was like walking in…it was almost like…okay it sounds dumb: its like whenever you see a sci-fi movie; I felt like I was the guy, who like came from the past or from the future, you know, I’m the guy who’s here so everyone has to explain what’s going on. I’m a straight man so that everyone can Page 18 �explain, oh this is how things work around here and have them explain to me. And it um, baffled my mind; I'm just like what is happening? What is this place? …It was very strange, I mean especially learning different things; one thing that blew my mind was the amount of confederate flags in this union state you’ve got here. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Its one of those hahaha, Michigan…you’re in the union…kind of. In fact, my roommate my first year…he had a big confederate flag over our couch and it said “redneck” on the bottom and I realized this is home but not really. It was just like one of those: this is really happening; it’s a little strange but you know.... alright I guess, and I mean at the very least I…my yearning to be open-minded I guess was very tested here and I mean its like one of those like...obviously I have no negative views of white people in general, but I realized that there are some pretty trashy confederate white people around here, and which is…well that’ll happen. And then on the other side too, which I feel like Grand Rapids is particularly guilty of …I feel like with the black and Hispanic population I mean, I feel like everyone wants to blame the media but I…every time I see a hood part of town in like Grand Rapids, it seems like a scene out of a movie and I’m just thinking: are you like this? Or are you acting like this, because it’s how you’re supposed to act? Cause Grand Rapids you’re not hood! I’m sorry; you know what I mean? Like Grand Rapids does not know struggle the same way that like places like Detroit know struggle, you know what I mean? And it’s one of those; oh we’re from Michigan, Detroit’s hard, so let’s be hard too. No that’s not they way it works; if you’re happy smile, you know what I mean, like if you’re having a good life you don’t have to pretend you’re not, kind of thing. Its one of those things; like I came over here and I feel like everyone kind of has their roles that they feel are…they are dealt in a sense, and I mean I’m kind of learning it, and learning to get along with it and work around it, but I mean its been different, it’s been very strange. I’d have to say; like I’ve been to Australia, New Zeeland, and Michigan is definitely the weirdest place I’ve been to yet, and its baffling, but I truly feel like its um…it’s definitely…what’s emerged at the other end of everything is a little bit more of who I am, and like I said I realized which principles I’m not willing to give up, you know? And it’s been a little bit difficult but um…I mean looking back at it now; it’s just like, I’m glad, you know; I could’ve just changed and been like everyone expected me too, or you know…done what I needed too to fit in. But I don’t fit in, so I pretend that I do. Seph: All right, well you got a couple more minutes? James: yeah. Seph: okay. I guess I’m going to just to civil rights, cause were dealing with that a lot in class right now…so were gonna move into that real quick to finish. But, I guess when it comes to thinking about race or ethnicity, are there any articles, books, films, features, performances…that stand out or maybe influenced you? Page 19 �James: ewh..uh… Seph: well…I mean you mentioned media and how it’s like how were supposed to act in Grand Rapids, but I mean is there like anything that was ever uh… James: ehhh Seph: we can come back to that. James: well I guess…well no. I’ll stick to it, I won’t pass, I’m not a pussy. No I guess…it sounds dumb…but…I guess I’ve avoided letting other ideas or I guess other influences define who I am. Um...growing up I’ve I always been like lone wolf status; always into things that other people weren’t, always just interested in different areas. And I mean; I guess if I had to say…I couldn’t pick a particular art form or piece of work that maybe helped me with my identity, but uh…I guess I would have to say; things that interested me were unlike what everyone else was into, not necessarily weird different, just not…I mean I didn’t meet too many other people for instance when I was younger…I guess its like I just cant close on a genre or a type but I guess the fact that I was always a little bit of a nonconformist and a little bit…uh well walked to the beat of a different drum, that, helped define me. But I could say that there was any piece of work that pushed me to better myself; in an identity point of view, you know. Seph: a couple more, bear with me. James: that fine. Seph: About discrimination…did you ever face any kind of discrimination growing up? Or even more recent? James: Eh, not to my face I guess, I mean I’m sure it was there; it’s always lurking in the shadows. But…uh…one time…my old teammate and I…his name was Wiccub (not sure if that is really what he says..?); I don’t know if you can use that so we’ll call him Joe, so me and Joe were in the car going from New York City back to Buffalo and we got pulled over by a cop and it was…we had been speeding…but it was one of those things where it was early in the morning, and I didn’t realize I was speeding and I was kinda just like keeping up with traffic and it was just one of those; ohhh in my head and he was like oh you were speeding so I’m thinking oh wow that sucks but what can you do…I got caught speeding; you know what I mean; like I wasn’t trying to be…you know shifty about it at all and um…so the cop checks my i.d. but then checks Wiccub’s i.d. and its just you know…which is weird cause… Seph: cause he’s a passenger… Page 20 �James: yeah as a passenger; you know checks his i.d. as well. So he runs us through the system. He comes back and then he uh…he says…well he basically asked me to get out of the car and I’m like okay fine, its not a big deal; all my papers and stuff were up to date and he just goes…uh…can you come to the back of the car; so I’m in the back of my car, I mean like behind the car…um which I thought was alright because of like the dash-cam thing so I’m not going to do anything; and the video will show that I’m not going to do anything and um…he’s like “I couldn’t help but notice that when you rolled down the window I was hit by the overwhelming odor of marijuana” and so…and I didn’t smoke, like I didn’t and so I was just like ohhh that’s weird cause I don’t smoke…and I guess the cop was like trying to…I assume the cop was trying to trick me into giving him permission to search my car cause he says “oh so if I were to look through your car I wouldn’t find anything” and I go “officer there is nothing in my car” and he’s like “but if I were to look through it, I wouldn’t find anything?” and I go “sir there is nothing illegal in my car” and so he’s like ohhh okay. It’s just like one of those why are you asking that over and over. I feel like he probably just wanted me to be like “fine go look through my car”, you know what I mean, but I know my rights a little bit better than that and um we weren’t giving him any time of reasonable cause or anything so…uh…yeah he gave us like a really hard time and um…were sitting in there car just like; what is going on? As cars are going like 90 past us; we’re just like, you know what I mean; like what is happening right now?! So we’re just sitting there and I’m like wow I’m actually kinda pissed off about this; cause it’s one of those; I never actually play the race card, cause I think it’s dumb, but I was like actually just seemed really fucked up, you know. And so I would have to say if there was one situation; that was…that was the one what was pretty…I guess black and white as far as…you know whether or not there was any discrimination…like I said I guess if anything its been more interracial versus interracial; as far as oh not black enough or not Hispanic enough, you know what I mean; you’re like ohh…you’re not really down with us; so in a sense I’ve been discriminated on all fronts, which is exciting, not many people can say that; usually you have one race to run back to, I had none, so… Seph: any discrimination for being a cheerleader? James: usually well um…I was a bouncer at Raggs to Riches, in down town Grand Rapids and I actually found out when they saw my resume, they saw cheerleader, and they initially were just like, NO! hahaha until one guy goes wait a minute these guys are usually kinda big; they’re usually kinda strong cause they have to like toss these girls; so then they’re like alright we’ll go check him out and I walk in and they’re like “big guyyy!” and then they’re like that’s who we’re hiring and I’m like and I have martial arts experience and they’re like alright that’s cool…um but that’s really the only instance that I know of particularly. But people usually look at me and are like ohh you look athletic, its not like ra-ra-shish-kebah like everyone assumes I do… Page 21 �Seph: okay, how about family? Did your family ever experience discrimination? Mom or dad? James: oh yeah. Um my mom when she first moved here she didn’t speak any English; so I mean like kids find any reason to make fun of other kids…so she was pretty much…she was screwed over when she showed up, she was made fun of; she spoke Spanish, broken English, you know, she like really didn’t know anything but um…however I guess on the inverse of everything there was a girl in her class that was like “Carmen, I’ll teach you how to…like after school let’s hang out for like an hour or whatever and she was like teaching her how to speak and stuff like that…so um yeah…my mom had good and bad experiences as far as like getting to school without any type of you know I guess formal instruction for speaking but I mean just imagine going anywhere and living there you know…and not knowing the language…like that’s one of those things were you can sort of think about it…but if you really think about it in an instance you think like oh that would be annoying but then you got to think about it as like a lifestyle; that’s entirely different, like its…baffling so…I’m sure that’d suck but you can’t really explain it any other way. Seph: All right, and final question: what comes to mind when you think of civil rights? And do you have any civil rights heroes? Local or national? James: well, I mean I would have to say when it comes to civil rights; civil rights are right up there with common sense; like I guess in a sense my problem with civil rights is I feel like when you start making a legislation that is assigned to a certain type of population while it does grant them certain powers it also alienates them because when you write and law and it says like “all men are created equal” type of thing just like very simple like tenants of American society; that should mean all men, are all mankind, you know what I mean, like some type of language use for everyone, but when you start specifying: alright this is for African Americans or this is for you know homosexuals and marriage now, its one of those: well yay! to do the right what everyone else could but you’re also writing a law that’s naming them as a type of person which I feel like that’s kind of…it’s one of those two steps forward, and one step back kind of thing, you know what I mean so uh…as far as civil rights I guess legislation wise, I would hope it was unnecessary but since it is necessary, I’m all for it but I don’t understand…I guess I don’t understand putting any type of human being down; like that’s just a concept that doesn’t register to me at all. As far as civil rights heroes...so stereotypical, I guess I don’t have to pick a celebrity, but whatever, one activist that stands out to me is Malcolm X. Solely on the fact that a lot of people are into Malcolm X because of how powerful of a speaker he was, how adamant he was with his beliefs; which obviously are very good points but he was able to, I don’t know how familiar you are with Malcolm X but his…the first, I would say…the fist major portion of his career he was very militant, very aggressive, and thought; he truly thought that blacks and whites could no co-exist; he felt there should be a black America and a white Page 22 �America, and you know kind of figure out the paperwork later, you know, and he wouldn’t deal with white people, he wouldn’t even mix with the population and he went on the Hajj to Mecca and while he was there was with Muslims from all over the world and he realized there were some darker than me, some my completion, and some white with blonde hair blue eyes and he’s like you know white people were Muslims; and he’s like their faith was at his level, you know what I mean; like at his level or more, so it wasn’t just like oh they’re tourists, they’re not just like checking it out, they are thoroughly invested in a belief system that he is thoroughly invested in. and I guess I admire him because he came out and was basically kind of like “I was wrong”, you know what I mean…and changed his views on everything and went about making those views more public, as far as what should be done. So I guess I admire him for being such a prominent figure in pretty much saying I was incorrect, you know, which no one does that; no one ever says that they’re wrong. So I guess as far as what’s been dug up and exposed about him: he was always what he said he was…you know what I mean…it’s not here’s the Malcolm X we thought we knew, here’s random exposé, you know that kind of thing. No, like he changed who he was but he stayed who whomever he said he was, that’s who he was at the time; you know and especially a man of his stature and position that’s very difficult to do; to say that, I mean essentially he lost his life as kind of a result of it. So, I guess if I had to pick one I would say him, and then obviously I guess another example would be Gandhi, who I guess would be a very general one. He’s another one who is a very generic answer and I mean obviously Martin Luther King was a big fan of him as well, but…he…I mean I guess in a similar light to Malcolm X, he was another one where; he was born and raised in India, educated in England, its when he moved to South Africa that he became invested in civil rights. He didn’t realize there was a difference in a sense, of the way people were treated because in India; Britain may have pulled the biggest, fastest trick on every body by convincing Indians that they had equal stake in their own country. And so Brittan realized there are so many Indians here, we have to get them on our side and working for us, versus a partite where it was very segregated and very like militarized on how they separate everything; they had to kind of work a little bit of a different system, and his experience was he went to South Africa because he was of Indian decent; I mean he was pure blooded Indian, and he was mistreated because he was brown, he was not a white person. So you have whites and non-whites essentially was how South Africa worked during the partite and he basically, once presented with the situation in seeing it; things literally black and white changed his views on everything and made it very, very vocal about it. It was almost like an over night change; where he goes “people should not be getting treated this way” and I mean, it’s one of those, he wasn’t as vocal about civil rights prior to this situation but once it happened that’s when he became I little bit more…he became louder and publically changed his views and really…you know…started his quest in and again eventually lost his life again because of it. Page 23 �Seph: All right sweet. Thank you, that is all the questions I have. And James, thanks for doing this and letting me get to know you better. James: No problem. END OF INTERVIEW Page 24 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/78289888f09488506831e83e45151990.mp3 8a63606f7a06519687c6130861b35702 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Civil rights--Michigan--History Personal narratives Oral histories African Americans--Personal narratives Gays--Personal narratives Lesbians--Personal narratives Bisexual people--Personal narratives Transgender people--Personal narratives Veterans--Personal narratives Women--Personal narratives People with disabilities--Personal narratives Muslims--United States--Personal narratives Hispanic Americans--Personal narratives Homophobia Discrimination Islamophobia Stereotypes (Social psychology)--Upper Penninsula (Mich.) Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history recordings documenting the history of civil rights and social justice advocacy in Western Michigan. The collection was created by faculty and students as a project of the LIB 201 (formerly US 201): "Diversity in the U.S." course from 2011-2012. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Brooks College of Interdisciplinary Studies Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral History Project (GV248-01) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-05-02 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV248-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1930-2011 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV248-01_Morton_James Title A name given to the resource James Morton audio interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Morton, James Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Morkes, Seph Description An account of the resource James Morton talks about his family" Subject The topic of the resource Civil rights--Michigan--History Hispanic Americans--Personal narratives Discrimination against Hispanic Americans Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Relation A related resource Speaking Out: Western Michigan Civil Rights Oral History Project Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-02-16 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ea5d302d97df655c9a985f29f06c4819.mp4 0c733b14ed27efc4dff97d239fe1e0f2 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/54ef89e65036276a2d52aaff76f7f5f0.pdf b5e0a308828ba9b010cd3c7ab519143d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert C. "Moose” Moss Date of Interview: 06-09-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] FRANK BORING: Moose, if we could begin with how you actually got involved in flight and airplanes. ROBERT MOSS: The way that I became involved in flying was by accident. I was in college and a boy rooming next door was from Pensacola Florida and he said to me, that the reason he was at school was to earn enough college credits to be able to become a cadet in the navy without having to take the mental examination, and he told me what fabulous pay rates that you would get when you finished your flight training and that made me interested in flying because the money was a big thing at that time because we were just beginning to come out of the depression. The valedictorian of our class the previous year got the highest paying teaching job in the state and his starting pay was $125 a month, so this kid told me that if he finished flight training, you could get $240 a month and I said, "Well, that's worth looking into", so it wasn't long ''til I had requested that through a friend of mine that our Senator give me an appointment to go to Randolph Field and I was accepted, and that was the way I started. FRANK BORING: If we could continue on with your experience on at Randolph Field and your subsequent transfer to Mount Clements. �ROBERT MOSS: Randolph Field was the basic training place for all cadets. Later on they had fields in California and Montgomery, Alabama, but my class which was 40H, when we went through the flying school, Randolph Field was the only flying field available at that time, so when we graduated from Randolph Field, the pilots being young shave-tails all put down choices of where they wanted to have their duty, so you had three choices. So my choices were anywhere below the Mason Dixon line, so I was sent to Mount Clements, Michigan. So it worked out that I believed that they purposely sent you where you didn't want to go. FRANK BORING: What was your experience once you arrived in Mount Clements? ROBERT MOSS: When I arrived at Mount Clements, it was a different vehicle than I started in because I had never driven on snow and ice and when I got to Detroit, I piled up five cars in the middle of downtown Detroit, so they had to usher me to Mt. Clements, which was about 20 miles out away from Detroit. FRANK BORING: Once you arrived in Mt. Clements, what was the training? What were you training on? ROBERT MOSS: When I arrived at Mt. Clements, it was the base that had the 23rd Pursuit Group, and I was attached to that group. I was so surprised, I had never seen fighter planes that had 35's and 40's there and the first day or two after I arrived a Major Doolittle came flying in a P39, all silver and sleek, but what impressed me most, I think, about getting out of a basic trainer and into a fighter plane was the amount of torque on the takeoff, and we had one boy that couldn't handle the torque and he left the runway and cut down a few planes and wound up half way in the back of a hangar because he couldn't handle the torque on takeoff. FRANK BORING: During this period that you were training on the P40, can you give us an idea of your first experiences with a P40? �ROBERT MOSS: My first experience with a P40, I guess, didn't differ much than the other pilots. We were told that this P40D was quite famous for its ground loop characteristics, it had a real low tail wheel that I think may have been corrected later, but basically I still think that the P40 was one of the finest combat planes. It was a plane that would take a lot of punishment and proven in combat, an aircraft that would bring you home. FRANK BORING: Any details that you can give - if you can't give details that's fine but, give us an idea of flying the P40 for the first time, when you were at Mt. Clements. ROBERT MOSS: When I flew the P40 the first time, I was amazed at the power over which I had control. It doesn't sound very fast now to talk about aircraft, but at that time it was the fastest plane known in America. It was the fastest that we had, its rate of climb we considered excellent. We knew that it had great diving speed, that was one of its real plusses. It allowed a pilot in combat if he had any altitude was break away from combat and come again which other planes didn't have that privilege of doing. FRANK BORING: When did you first hear about the opportunity in China? ROBERT MOSS: There were rumors at the 21st Pursuit Group that they were forming a volunteer group to go and protect the Burma Road and that there would be someone there in a few days that would interview people who had enough fighter pilot time to qualify to join this particular group. I knew that since I had been in the last graduating class that I would have the least amount of P40 time of anyone. However, the fact that they were requesting pilots that had flown an inline engine as opposed to a radial engine might give me the advantage and I decided right then that I would be at the interview. FRANK BORING: What was your motivation, or what was your interest in this particular endeavor? �ROBERT MOSS: I'd never been outside the United States, I decided that it would be an adventure for me, at least a peak beyond the horizon for a country boy, and I decided right then, if I went, that I wanted my crew chief to go with me. So the next day, I contacted my crew chief and said, "George," his name was George Bailey, I said, "George, if I'm lucky enough to get on this - with this group, would you go along and be my crew chief?" He said, "I'll need to one or two people, but I certainly would like to go." So that was the background there. FRANK BORING: What did you know about China at that particular time? ROBERT MOSS: When we were about to be interviewed, I found that I knew nothing about China, nothing about the Chinese people. We weren't even planning to go to China because at that time we were going to protect the Burma Road. However, when Pearl Harbor was bombed, we went immediately to the offensive and straight to every Japanese airport within P40 range within the minimum number of hours. We could give the Japanese a real blow while MacArthur was waiting to get official sanction from Congress that we were being shot at. FRANK BORING: Along the same line, a question about China, what did you know about Japan at that time? ROBERT MOSS: Having never traveled and was not very good at geography, I had very little concept of the kind of people that we would be meeting, that had different ways of life, and that was one of the things that appealed to me, would be because I get to travel abroad and be able to see some other ways of life other than ours. FRANK BORING: Had you seen in the movies the newsreels of the invasion of China by the Japanese, had you seen any of those - and whatever your reaction was if you did. �ROBERT MOSS: I didn't really know that the Japanese had invaded and I did not know that a war had been going on in China with the Japanese for ten or twelve years. That was so foreign to my background that I was unaware of that. FRANK BORING: Once you heard about the AVG and you'd gone to George Bailey and talked to him about going, what was the next step? Who did you meet to talk to? What was the interview? Was the interview next? What was the next step, if you will, after you made this decision that you were going to go. ROBERT MOSS: I believe that the person that interviewed us - I know that Adair was in the party - and of course one of the most appealing things in the very beginning was that the pay scale was going to be so high. We were going to get more than a Major or 2nd Lieutenant immediately go on a pay scale of at least that of a Major and then a small bonus of $500 for each plane that we shot down, certainly were enticing parts of getting one to go. However, I knew that with the few hours that I had on a P40, I'd be fortunate to go. However, when they were not able to get the number of pilots that they wanted with the number of flying hours, then they dropped down to the bottom of the barrel and allowed me and another one of my classmates or two to come along. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Moss_Robert_1991-06-09_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Moss, Robert C. "Moose" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-09 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Moose" Moss interview (video and transcript, 1 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert "Moose" Moss by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Moss was a Flight Leader for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." In this tape, Moss discusses how his flight career began and the cadet training he experienced before volunteering with the AVG overseas. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/640a4be80f53100981f2ebee86d6be1f.mp4 215449c6196ae654a31dfad63e035357 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0b31f15be1d9c65942dea5aba844824a.pdf 599feed852f6d87ec8f140216cc4d8f4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert C. "Moose” Moss Date of Interview: 06-09-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] FRANK BORING: Can you recall the meeting with Skip Adair and the group and what was told to you? What you were expected to do? Or did you get more details later? ROBERT MOSS: I remember vaguely some of what would be required of us if we were accepted. We were told that we would have to resign our commissions because a member of the armed forces of the United States could not be in combat in a foreign country under someone else's insignia, and of course, we were all concerned about that, but they said, you will see with your resignation, it will be at the pleasure of the President of the United States is how it will be written, and you can come back into the United States services any time you wish at, at least the rank of your contemporaries. I had a good feeling about that. I didn't feel like I was getting so far out on a limb that it might be cut off. FRANK BORING: When they told you that they would be sending you to China, did they also say that they would also provide transportation back home after your year's contract. ROBERT MOSS: I don't remember whether they gave - it's been so long ago that I don't remember many details of the mechanics of how the overall thing was handled. �FRANK BORING: If you could describe the process of resigning your commission, was there any difficulty from your Commanding Officer that you were leaving or was it a smooth transition to sign out and then join with CAMCO? ROBERT MOSS: The paperwork for our getting out of the armed forces of the United States was handled in a very smooth manner and you could readily see that the United States was acquiescing in this and making it easy to do because they wanted to check out some of our equipment against that of the Japanese. FRANK BORING: Once the decision was made, you'd signed your papers and everything, what did you tell your friends and family that you were going to be doing? ROBERT MOSS: I told my parents that I was going to Burma to try to protect the Burma Road which was the lifeline to China, and they agreed that they thought that it would be a good idea and that I would have a great time. FRANK BORING: Did you give them any impression, or perhaps did you have any impression that you would be in danger. ROBERT MOSS: I think that when you have power, danger is always involved and when you have power and gunfire, even more danger is involved. I don't think anyone of us overlooked the possibility of not coming back, and when we got there and talked with Lloyd's of London about insurance, we found out that they felt that we had at least a 10% chance of not lasting a year based on the premium rates for insurance that they were asking. FRANK BORING: Could you relate to us your experience in talking to Black Mac McGarry family. ROBERT MOSS: Black Mac and I went all the way through flying school together and since both of our last names started with M we were tent mates �at places and we were sent to Mt. Clements together and Mac was one of the most unusual people that I had ever met and real timid and he didn't want to tell his parents that he was signing up to go to China, so I went ahead of him to Los Angeles and met with his family, all his family, and told him of Mac's decision, and I had a pretty hard time telling them that I didn't have anything to do with his decision, with his making the decision, that they only thing I was doing was telling them about the decision that he had made. But I don't think that I got them ever to believe that. FRANK BORING: Soon afterwards, you then went to San Francisco I believe. ROBERT MOSS: No, we met at the Jonathan Club in Los Angeles, that's where we assembled to make the trip, so in the Jonathan Club, the first night I thought someone was playing with me. I heard a knock at the door and I opened the door and no-one would be there and the second time, I would open the door and no-one was there. I said, "Well, I'll catch them, I'll stay at the door and as soon as they knock I'll undo the door." I did, and there was no-one there, so I decided that something might be happening to me upstairs. I was on the fourth floor so I called out to the front desk and they said that we're having an earthquake, and said what you hear are the window weights and the windows rattling - getting the vibration that's causing it to sound like somebody's knocking on your door. So they said, if it gets any worse, get under the bed. So I just waited it out and it happened to be what they consider in California, I think, a mild earthquake which is totally foreign to somebody from South Georgia. FRANK BORING: We had a chance to talk a little bit about your background and the fact that you did come from a very small area - from this area. What I'm looking for is your first reaction to this group of guys that had assembled there in Jonathan Club from all over the country, you're all going for the same basic purpose. You said you had no illusions about the danger and whatnot. What was your first impression of this group of guys that you met? �ROBERT MOSS: My first impression of the people on the group that were - we were going to travel to San Francisco and get on the Jaegersfontein, and my passport said that I was an agricultural adviser, that's why I was going, and I assume it's because they knew that I had a rural background and if I were questioned I could talk maybe fairly intelligently about agriculture, so they wrapped that I thought pretty nicely. The group that they put together, being four years or so in the service, I was fairly well aquatinted with the fact that a lot of service people tend to close the bar-rooms wherever they are, whether it be in Los Angeles or whether it be in Rangoon, Burma, so I wasn't too surprised at most of them being completely free and full of spirits. FRANK BORING: You mentioned the passports, was there a level of secrecy that was required of you? Did they ask of you to remain secret about this? ROBERT MOSS: Not that I remember. I don't believe that they warned us about saying where we were going and what we were going to do. However, we were isolated most of the time. You can't talk much on a ship at sea, it doesn't get farther than the ship. FRANK BORING: I'd like to return in a sense to the question that I just asked and carry it on to the trip itself. This question you'll find popping up as we go along because what we're really trying to do is get a personal view of the AVG. So I had mentioned what was your first impressions of your group when you were in the Jonathan Club. Now that you've boarded the boat and you're on your way, what were your impressions of your fellow travelers, not just the AVG but the other people on the ship and the interaction between them? Mainly what I'm looking for is your impressions as you're starting to get to know more of your fellow travelers. ROBERT MOSS: As far as I knew, outside the Jaegersfontein, the AVG people were the only people on the boats. I don't remember anybody else. I think that we were the only passengers. �FRANK BORING: What were your impressions of the AVG? Who stuck out, if you will? Who were the ones that you started to develop friendships with? ROBERT MOSS: Since there were only two women aboard, they naturally stuck out, and they may have not been so popular back home, but they found out there they became immediately popular on the boat and all the time that they were in China and Burma. FRANK BORING: Can you give us the stories or any remembrances you have that may have stuck out on that particular trip of any of the people that you knew? ROBERT MOSS: On the boat we had to cross the International Date Line - was one big party with all the tricks that they'd play on those that had not crossed. The other thing that we noticed that a group of young people like that, that are competitive in every way, played games aboard ship and we even had boxing gloves on board and I arrived in Rangoon with a fractured bone in my hand from boxing on the boat. It healed on its own but we x-rayed it and saw it had a fracture in the bone, and it happened with Ken Merritt from the University of Texas who was supposedly a good boxer at the University of Texas. FRANK BORING: Who were some of the AVG people that were with you on that trip besides Red Petach and Josie Stewart? Can you recall anybody else that was on there? ROBERT MOSS: I'm really embarrassed - as soon as we got to Rangoon we were back together again as a total group and I'm just not able to tell you now offhand how many and the names of the pilots or crew that were on board. FRANK BORING: Did you ever witness - at that time, Doc Rich was also on the boat - one of the things that they talked about was the dancing - that �there were dances there and Doc Rich and Red Petach, at that time Red Foster, were dancing. Do you recall that at all? ROBERT MOSS: I have known, I guess, as long as I've known Doc Rich that if there happened to be music and a woman, he was dancing. FRANK BORING: What were some of the stops along the way like? Do you recall any shore leave, or were you allowed off the ship at all? Can you recall any of the stops on the way? ROBERT MOSS: We had a stop and were allowed off the boat shortly in Australia. I don't remember any more detail than that - can't afford to. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Moss_Robert_1991-06-09_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Moss, Robert C. "Moose" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-09 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Moose" Moss interview (video and transcript, 2 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert "Moose" Moss by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Moss was a Flight Leader for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." In this tape, Moss describes his first experiences and impressions of the American Volunteer Group and their journey overseas aboard the Jaegersfontein. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/15224d7a4cbd8cb1a3137c4d387c47af.mp4 1567bfd4162581b144eb95364d2dc8bf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/02bbc6309c976e3ed1560a6d173cf7cd.pdf 6256aafd530ae344b9987d3ce988e9f3 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert C. "Moose” Moss Date of Interview: 06-09-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] FRANK BORING: Could you describe - I'll tell you what I'm looking for… the arrival in Rangoon? ROBERT MOSS: When we arrived in Rangoon and got off the boat, we were confronted with these strange looking little people that were riding bicycles and pulling rickshaws and I could see immediately that they had a total different way of life that we in the United States had been accustomed to, even though in the United States the way of life varied a lot from the city to the country, I knew that this was going to be another step in a different direction because I was seeing people walking, and found out later that they were religious people that didn't touch money, that had a bowl that they always went to get food and were allowed in every home to get meals, and so it was a real education. Some of the basic things remain the same all over with people in the military and virile young men they started looking to see what kind of women were going to be around, and they found out that there were enough foreigners there that we had an ample supply of girls that could speak English, although we always appreciated some of the pretty little Burmese girls. FRANK BORING: When you arrived in Rangoon, what were the next process? You eventually got into a P-40, so if could you explain that - how you got into the P-40 to fly it over. �ROBERT MOSS: Before we get to the P-40, in Rangoon we were there for a few days, going through some paperwork for CAMCO, signing up where you wanted your paycheck sent and that sort of thing, which was really important, and it was a bit of orientation there that we appreciated, because those people lived in the Orient for many years, and they could advise us what was best not to attempt to do, as well as some things that might be acceptable. Most of the people got on trains intermittently going to Toungoo, but word came out that they had a P-40 that was assembled. It hadn't been test flown but it was ready to go. So Roger Reynolds and Chennault were down there and they said, "You people are the pilots, why don't you just fly this P-40 up there?" I said, "Do you have a map of how to get there?" They said, "No we have a railroad." FRANK BORING: This part is very important - the P-40 and not having a map and all that. Let's start from the beginning then of you stayed in Rangoon did you know there were other P-40's being assembled at the time? ROBERT MOSS: I had not been to where the planes were being put together and readied for us. However, when I went out to get into the P40, I noticed that the mixture control, instead of pushing it forward to make it rich, you pulled it back, and I began to ask a few questions and they said, "You know, these planes were designed to go to Australia and they have a British cockpits that prop pitch control and the mixture control are opposite, and the lights on the side of the plane - flying lights - are different than they use in the United States, so you're going to have to adjust yourself to the reverse prop pitch control and that sort of thing. So Roger Reynolds and Chennault were there, they said, "Even though you don't have a map, you can fly formation on us after you get to Toungoo." I didn't know that the planes they were flying were about 40 miles per hour under the cruising speed of a P40. So I circled two or three times in order to stay in sight of them rather than get hanging on to their wing, and each time I'd circle them, I'd try to get slower, I would let the wheels down first and, of course, that slowed me �down a lot, and I'd let the flaps down about 30 degrees, and used a prop pitch that near take off pitched, so that if I began to stall out I could have enough power in my hand to get flying without stalling out. Even at that we got out of town about 20 minutes and the ceiling kept dropping and dropping, and I lost them and I followed a Y in a railroad track ''til I saw where I was going 180 degrees almost from the direction that we'd been flying, so I stayed down on that railroad and flew back and found the intersection where I'd taken the wrong track and when I arrived in Toungoo, they were taxiing up to park. I just landed right on behind on them and taxied on in the park also, but I never did let them know that I had been lost. I didn't want to embarrass them - be embarrassed by telling that on me at that early stage. FRANK BORING: Can you recall any of that, that you signed some papers and there were some warnings of what you should do and what you shouldn't do? ROBERT MOSS: I remember what the CAMCO people that they asked us to sign a will and I do remember that the witnesses on that will that I signed were from three different areas in the United States, because they put their address down when they witnessed the will and they were all from different sections of the United States, and I thought that that would look pretty unusual in a court anywhere in the country, to read a will that the witnesses were all from all parts of the country. FRANK BORING: What was your first impression of Chennault? ROBERT MOSS: When one meets Chennault, they readily recognize an aura that tells you that he's a winner. There's never any question, in athletics, on the softball field, Ping-pong, he was the worst loser of anybody you could ever imagine, and if he couldn't settle it any other way, he would challenge one of these young guys. If they teased him too much about him being an old man, he'd challenge them in physical areas just to prove that he was still much of a man. He was �definitely the finest quarterback that any organization could ever have. He had the information to disseminate that would save lives and make you a winner. FRANK BORING: Once you arrived in Toungoo, if you could, describe your living conditions. Give us an idea of what the field was like. What were your impressions of the air base in Toungoo? ROBERT MOSS: They had prepared a macadam landing strip which was better than a lot of places that we flew out of. We flew out of leveled rice paddies at times which still weren't too bad because they were they type of aircraft that would take a little bit of beating and still do the job. But of course, I'd never lived in huts that the roofs were made of rice straw, but it's quite fine insulation and the mosquito nets and the people that had prepared us a place to stay knew how the easiest way to overcome hot, humid conditions, and we were fairly comfortable even with the outhouses and that sort of thing. Chennault indicated that he had told some of the people that were recruiting pilots and ground personnel that he knew that the lifestyle of southern country people might fit better - temperaments of that type might fit better because he knew that in Burma and China, there wouldn't be any paid entertainment. He needed a person that could sit under an oak tree with a pocket knife and whittle and hum and be comfortable and not have to have bought entertainment, and I think it proved to be true. I think that the people that needed bought entertainment were not as comfortable as some of the rest of us. FRANK BORING: What was the - give us an idea of the sleeping quarters, the situation of the mosquitos, critters, snakes and things like that, any stories that you know of? ROBERT MOSS: In my shack, I was rooming with - one of the people that I had for a shack mate was Joe Alsop. He had a lot of good stories about Washington, and he had just gone to Duke University six months ahead of that had about 100 lbs. of fat taken out surgically, and he �had the belt there that he wore before the operation, and it would reach around me twice, so it was pretty unusual for me to meet someone like Joe Alsop and his background, and I found out later that maybe one of the reasons that he might have been there, that he was, I believe he said, a third cousin to the current President of the United States. FRANK BORING: Let's now talk about the first training experiences in Toungoo. In your case, you had already flown the P40, you were fairly familiar with it even though you had to do things backwards in the sense of the British version of it, but what we'd like now is your observation - as a pilot who already knew the P-40's, of the training that Chennault gave you in the art of flying this airplane. ROBERT MOSS: In Toungoo I don't think that we discussed and talked that much about the skill of flying because we were supposed to have those skills. I think, if I remember correctly, what I remember most was tactics that he said that would work against the Japanese that might not work against the Germans, things that he knew and that you could depend on, the Japanese pilots attempting to do and what his strategy would be to turn all of their advantages into disadvantages, and utilize our plane's best tricks, and a perfect example later on when the British that were in Rangoon with us, a group of Brewster Buffaloes, they were all shot down very shortly. They weren't there any more after a couple of engagements in combat with the Japanese. They didn't have any planes - they were nonexistent, and we were still flying. FRANK BORING: You had a background - your schooling, if you will - was from a small one room schoolhouse… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Moss_Robert_1991-06-09_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Moss, Robert C. "Moose" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-09 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Moose" Moss interview (video and transcript, 3 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert "Moose" Moss by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Moss was a Flight Leader for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." In this tape, Moss discusses the AVG's arrival in Rangoon, his first impression of General Chennault, and the living conditions upon their arrival in Toungoo. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a8583f292abe841ee9626996ad477990.mp4 03f993e8a570693fcc98ede37f3b7a5f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e413d1d81e9d8c21e864dac617dd3bb5.pdf a35febe4b1500c56da824d222de2df8e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert C. "Moose” Moss Date of Interview: 06-09-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] FRANK BORING: ………… would land 30 ft. in the air basically, that's what I'm talking about. ROBERT MOSS: ………… a lot of good reasons, even the navy training might have been superior to air force training, we don't even know that. FRANK BORING: I'm not trying to get a comment on that, and I'm not commenting on their abilities as fliers, what we're talking about is that difficulty from going, from your observation… ROBERT MOSS: It's as simple as this, I had to become accustomed to flying an airline plane, which is - the cockpit is a lot higher from the runway than a P-40, so you're tending to come in - and you hit the ground before you think you're going to hit the ground because you're accustomed to being 6 ft. from the ground when you make contact and you're 13 ft. from the ground, and those guys on the PBY's were higher than that, so they leveled off that P-40 up there at about the same place you'd level off the PBY and when it stalled out, it should have been a quarter of an inch above the ground and it was 16 ft. above the ground, and it was a hell of a whop when it hit. I can't say it any other way. That's right. FRANK BORING: That's exactly what we're looking for, it's from your observation point. Now we've got it, that's perfect! We have to try and �communicate with an audience, Moose, we have to show an audience that doesn't know a thing about it. ROBERT MOSS: But I shouldn't be criticizing… FRANK BORING: Were there some pilots that could not get used to the P-40 and they turned into ground personnel or anything like that? Did you observe that? ROBERT MOSS: Yes, there were several people in the checkout stages in the AVG that became ground personnel, assistants and office people because Chennault figured that - we knew that we would not be having a lot of new P-40's coming in, and we were losing too many P-40's in the checkout period, and he just had to stop that, because we wouldn't have been active if we'd used them all up trying to get them adjusted back to the height that you should land in a P-40. FRANK BORING: During this period of time in training, you'd already established some contact with these guys from all over the country. Were there any in particular during the training period that you became closer to, or ones that you got to know, or even ones that you felt - that you didn't like? ROBERT MOSS: Of course, you find out more closely about your common interests if you're rooming with someone, if you're put together with them on a day to day basis, and I felt that - out of one or two - that it was generally known that were despicable characters and didn't last very long. I thought it was really an interesting group because one thing of the geographic distribution from whence they came, and about their personal lives and the lives of parents and friends being so different than mine. It made them an interesting group to me. FRANK BORING: Your background in terms of your schooling was in a small one room schoolhouse. Chennault had taught in a one room schoolhouse. What was your impression of Chennault as a teacher? �ROBERT MOSS: I think one of the first things I noticed about Chennault as a teacher, he didn't play around the periphery. He came straight to the point. He was one who immediately took the wheat from the chaff, and whatever he did - was immediately let you know where the point was, and the reason for going straight to it. I liked him. FRANK BORING: On that same line of thinking, you had been trained as a pilot, as a fighter pilot for certain tactics that the military at the time considered to be the tactics. Now as I understand it, Chennault had some radical concepts that were somewhat different than the training that you had had. Can you comment on either the differences or your reaction to the differences between the way the military taught you to fight and the way he was telling you to fight? ROBERT MOSS: I had for one had not been in the military long enough in a fighter plane to be well versed in gunnery or in military tactics. It may have made it even more interesting for him to come up with specifics about when a situation came about how to handle that particular situation and if we saw a certain picture emerging, what would be the next thing to emerge from that same picture in combat. For example, he would say that when you meet three planes, you should expect them to react in a certain way, and then your defense against that should be this, and so on. But he discussed tactics and not flying ability. FRANK BORING: What were your first impressions and any comments you might have on the British at that time? ROBERT MOSS: Some of our boys wanted to have little sham dog-fights with the Brewster's, they did, and I don't remember really anything about how they have come out. What they wanted to do is to check and see about the turning radiuses and how quickly we could get to the red line on a dive compared to their planes and we were not located on the same air base and we didn't get to know those �people very well. However, we do know that they had some pilots that were not officers and all of our pilots were officers in one of the other forms of service. FRANK BORING: What was your impression of Chennault's staff? Did you have any contact at all with people like Harvey Greenlaw or Boatner Carney or Skip Adair, any of this group? ROBERT MOSS: I knew them all on a personal basis but I had no way of knowing, or making a judgement as to their ability and the job that they were hired to do… I know that Olga, Harvey's wife was a very, very lovely lady. FRANK BORING: Can you comment any further on that? ROBERT MOSS: I don't think I should comment any further. FRANK BORING: Give us your first reaction to the events of December the 8th, when you heard about Pearl Harbor. ROBERT MOSS: When the news came to us that Pearl Harbor had been bombed, we started getting directives immediately and it was just as if you've had your practice, now the whistle is blowing, it's time to start the game, and that's how I remembered it. FRANK BORING: Did you notice, yourself specifically, but amongst the group itself, was there a change of attitude - I know you were still in the learning process of the airplanes and there was getting the equipment together and all that, but it was all sort of gearing up for this big event. Did you notice any change in the attitude in terms of the event is now on? ROBERT MOSS: Not that I recognized. FRANK BORING: On the 10th of December there was an alarm - the first alarm - a warning that the Japanese were coming. Can you comment on that �feeling of - before an actual attack - what it felt like, the waiting for the attack to happen? ROBERT MOSS: I wasn't on duty on the first contact, it was my day off or I was not at the airport, but I do remember very distinctly that everything downtown was closed all day during the day because they were being bombed. But I was - and business was carried on in Kunming, China after dark as a normal routine. But after the first contact the Chinese immediately believed that there would be no more bombs in Kunming and they started opening their places of business immediately because it was really a shock to them and a wonderful, I'm sure wonderful, surprise, not one bomb fell in the city limits, not one - letting one plane arrive. So they felt like that they were safe from then on. That was the big change. FRANK BORING: Let's talk about Kunming then. You were sent to Kunming - did you fly there first of all? ROBERT MOSS: I flew. FRANK BORING: Could you describe to us your first reaction, your observation of flying into Kunming? You had been flying in Toungoo which was one atmosphere. What was it like in Kunming? ROBERT MOSS: Well of course the difference in the altitude made you land a lot harder - thinner air, but the runway was long enough to land there, so, nothing that I remember specifically. FRANK BORING: (Inaudible) ROBERT MOSS: On our flight to Kunming, only the flight leader had a hand drawn map. We were able to fly over underneath all the top cover, no maps necessary, and it was strictly a cross country, uneventful trip other than, in the distance we could see, snow-covered mountains, and it was very beautiful, but very different. �FRANK BORING: What were the conditions in Kunming different from Toungoo your living quarters, for example, or the food? ROBERT MOSS: The food in Kunming was not a great deal different than it was in Toungoo, as much as we had our own cooks and the people to prepare the meals. The housing in China - we were in hostels that had permanent roofs and normal buildings for that part of the country whereas in Toungoo it was temporary thrown up barracks. FRANK BORING: What would you say was the difference between your experience of military routine and AVG? ROBERT MOSS: There was not a great deal of difference between that except that in the AVG we cut out a lot of the boring and monotonous things that you had to do just because you were in the military. Those just kind of faded into the distance, and we didn't have the formalities, that sort of thing. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Moss_Robert_1991-06-09_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Moss, Robert C. "Moose" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-09 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Moose" Moss interview (video and transcript, 4 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert "Moose" Moss by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Moss was a Flight Leader for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." In this tape, Moss describes the P-40 flight training and how Chennault's teachings compared with his prior military training. He also describes when they received the news of Pearl Harbor and the days that followed for the AVG. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dde23bb9bac759d882adc8f78b8d677d.mp4 7e0ab1cccc2845a3e1b329cabdc669ae https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/22bee6bd9873d6bd6da4350fe1453272.pdf c6ef9f618997699ebd1f7996c4d5ed7e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert C. "Moose” Moss Date of Interview: 06-09-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 5] FRANK BORING: But if you could also incorporate that you didn't have the saluting, you didn't have the marching in place, if you will, that is important perhaps in the formative years, but then… ROBERT MOSS: Give me the question again. FRANK BORING: The military has certain regulations and certain things that they do, such as saluting, marching in place and whatnot, which they claim is necessary toward the building of a proper military unit, yet the AVG was a very successful military unit without all that. Your response was that it's important in the formative years to develop that discipline, but once you have it, the military still keeps it up whereas the AVG didn't. ROBERT MOSS: I think the main difference in our organization as a military unit and a standard military unit in one of the services is that although we originally had been associating with, and accustomed to, the kind of discipline, then once we learned that discipline, then in the AVG we were able to dispense with a lot of the formalities, still maintain the correct discipline where discipline was necessary. It made it a lot easier to live where nobody saluted someone else, but we had that respect because of position and authority and mutual respect. �FRANK BORING: Could you give us some idea of what your duties were in December before the first contact. What was the routine like? ROBERT MOSS: Our daily routine was if we had gasoline available to fly some, stay making the equipment feel like it was an extension of our body, feeling completely comfortable in the equipment. Other than that, we didn't do anything that I remember particularly to maintain an edge. FRANK BORING: What were you doing on your off days for example, cards, or baseball games, or trips into town? ROBERT MOSS: On my off days in the AVG, I used to take side trips to get closer to the people, to find out how they made a living, watch their arts and crafts, and try to find out how those people were living and had lived before we came. FRANK BORING: What were some of the observations that you made on these trips? ROBERT MOSS: I never knew that saving face anywhere in the world was as important as it is in China. I can give you an example. I was in a jeep going on a little side trip in the morning and I met a truck load of workers along a slick dirt road. I stopped to wave the truck by and he bowed and wanted to wave me by, but I felt that the one that went by would have the greatest chance of slipping in the ditch, so he waited for me and I waited for him. They finally ate their lunch there, but when it got to be quitting time, the workmen on his truck kept all kind of noise going and I could see all day that it was a face saving situation, and I just wanted to see how long that it would last, so they finally put enough pressure on him late in the afternoon when it was time to go home from work, to pass me on that slick road rather than for me to pass them. I just wasn't going to lose face, I was going to out wait him, and I did. But they put the pressure on him - there about 12 or 15 on that truck, and they were wanting real bad to go home, so they just kept - and �when they finally passed me, everyone bowed from the back of the truck. FRANK BORING: Can you think of any other situations like that on your trips out, how you got know some of the Chinese people, or their situations…? ROBERT MOSS: I don't recall anything especially interesting off-hand. FRANK BORING: You came from a very poor environment in the United States, hard-working. What was your observation of the Chinese, the poor and the kind of city environment that you were looking at in Kunming? ROBERT MOSS: I think it's quite difficult. You can tell a good many things from observation, but it's pretty difficult to know much from a real lifestyle point of view by meandering among the people. You can get some ideas, but I think you have to go a lot deeper than that and I wasn't in the position to do that. FRANK BORING: How about in terms of what you saw in Kunming? You had come from a country background, and this was basically a city in a sense. What did you observe and what was the city like? ROBERT MOSS: I think that I was able to adjust quite well because I was associated with people who spoke the same language that I did, and we were an autonomous group there that independent of the social aspects of the Chinese people, although I enjoyed and watched people practicing public speaking, it would be kind of embarrassing in Boston or Atlanta, I assume, to get out on the street with a new audience and try to see if your voice would carry one block or two blocks and make a speech for an hour and a half without an audience, but that's just some little differences. I knew when they come to our country, that we do things that would appear extremely odd to them. �FRANK BORING: Did you witness the bombing of Kunming? Did you see or hear…? ROBERT MOSS: I don't think anybody there ever saw or heard a bomb hit Kunming. FRANK BORING: Just before you arrived though, there was a bomb attack. Some of the guys did see that, but did you go into the city and see any of the damage? ROBERT MOSS: Yes, I saw some of it. But it was done before we arrived, not after. FRANK BORING: What did you see in terms of the damage in Kunming? ROBERT MOSS: The frugal Chinese picked up everything from the bombing that could be salvaged almost immediately, so what we saw was either a hole in the ground or a building that all the materials that could be reused had already been moved. FRANK BORING: You mentioned that on the first day that the battle actually occurred, you were actually not on duty. Were you on the field, did you go to the field after they came back, or were you - where actually were you? ROBERT MOSS: At the hostel. FRANK BORING: What was the reaction, what was your reaction I should say, when they came back after the fight? ROBERT MOSS: It was of course, thrilled that we did as well as we did and didn't lose a pilot. FRANK BORING: Was there a sense of exuberance going on? ROBERT MOSS: Yes, of course. FRANK BORING: Give us an idea of what it was like, now that there's a first engagement. �ROBERT MOSS: One of the things that maybe I was a little surprised - that most of the comeback from discussing the mission happened at very close range instead of 500 yards that our guns were both sited to coming in on, mostly a hundred yards and less, so we changed both sites of our guns to a much closer distance. FRANK BORING: What was the reaction of the Chinese people? Were you present at the awards and the banquet and all that? ROBERT MOSS: I don't remember anything about that. FRANK BORING: What would you say was your next - the next step - where were you transferred to, or did you remain in Kunming for an extended period of time? ROBERT MOSS: I was in the second group that went to Rangoon? - the first group may have been there two weeks or something and I was in the next group. FRANK BORING: So now you're - this is to relieve the 3rd squadron, right - that had already been fighting there? Okay. If you could describe to us the this is when you first saw battle, is that correct? Okay. I wonder if you could give us a sense of that first time that you had to get into an airplane that you knew that you were going to be going into battle. ROBERT MOSS: You never know for sure if you're going into battle, but if you take off and there's a warning, naturally you assume that the enemy is approaching your area unless you're going on offensive mission, at which I believe the first two of my missions were that rather than meeting an enemy coming in, and so you know what the plan is and what you hope to accomplish. FRANK BORING: What did you feel like when you took off - this is very different from training, very different from just getting into a P40 and, as �you say, feeling one with the machine or whatever, this is real battle? ROBERT MOSS: I don't think one thinks like that. I think like this is something that you've prepared yourself to do, and now's the time that you go about it, and you just try to make it happen it was planned. I think that maybe I was no different than most under the circumstances. FRANK BORING: Describe if you will, in as much detail as you can, the first encounter you had. ROBERT MOSS: Those are areas that have not been real fond memories. The first mission that I flew with Charlie Mott was strafing mission on an airport over in French Indo China, I believe, or it was at the time. Charlie was shot down, but militarily is to the number of planes destroyed and that sort of thing, it might have been considered a real successful mission, but of course, there's nothing real successful if you leave one of yours on the other side… You were going to not go into combat and I would like to steer around combat. FRANK BORING: I don't think I was here when you guys were talking about - you don't want to talk about any of the combat at all? � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Moss_Robert_1991-06-09_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Moss, Robert C. "Moose" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-09 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Moose" Moss interview (video and transcript, 5 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert "Moose" Moss by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Moss was a Flight Leader for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." In this tape, Moss discusses the differences he experienced between the AVG and a standard military unit and his impressions of the city of Kunming. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/98678e22e34bf621340a87febfa58c23.mp4 6673216f322d7270e6bc1b47d02b76e6 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d077956217eed2221934d2272ec737b7.pdf 7adaa062f813004f71f09d45e39d812c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert C. "Moose” Moss Date of Interview: 06-09-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 6] FRANK BORING: The fact that - some of the interesting things that you've gone through are horrendous and granted they’re painful memories, but I really think the world should know this, the audience should know this, people should know this, but you tell it your way, in your own way. ROBERT MOSS: You know that memory and time and when you intentionally - I've never discussed anything like I'm talking to you, any of my children or any of my family in any way, or any of my friends, and when we go to reunion, we don't - I never have had a conversation about an engagement, but I'll go along and if something that I haven't tried to remember, and I haven't tried to remember any details and it's very possible that I might be incorrect on something, and I really don't want to do that, and I know that if I don't say anything, it won't be incorrect, but I'll do - I can maybe give a little - some insight. FRANK BORING: Over the next few days, there was a great deal of - a hectic pace if you will, this is war now and you were sent on various missions. Can you give us an idea of - an example - perhaps a very dramatic example in which you had an encounter, what happened and what was your personal dealing with that? How did you deal with that? How did you deal with that kind of stressful, intensely scary situation? �ROBERT MOSS: I believe that two weeks from the day that Charlie was shot down Charlie Mott that is - that six of our fighter pilots were to escort a few Blenheim bombers. I don't know how many, three or six or something like that, bombed strategic areas, mainly I believe being a Chinese airport, I mean a Japanese airport. Apparently the net picked us up about the time that we were to arrive over the target. Two of our planes - our six fighter pilots were in pairs and at different altitudes. I was flying in a top cover, and when I spotted the fighter planes, they were well above us, so they had had - the net had picked us up and the pilots had been able to get up and be waiting. So I spotted - waved my wing very quickly to indicate to my leader that I spotted the enemy, and I just pulled up real strong on a head on run and I assume I froze at the controls because when that plane exploded, part of - I could see on the leading edge of my plane that I had either been hit by oil or some debris. I didn't feel anything - didn't feel a jar, but I could see that. I pulled up, and as I turned I got another plane on my sites, and I knocked him down, then I was immediately engaged with four planes, one keeping me in a circle, and the other three shooting across the circle, and as we worked our way down, they finally got me, and I was able to bail out low enough that they didn't follow me down to that height to dump me in the parachute. I was a few days behind the Japanese lines, carried from village to village by the head man of the village. He kept his team with him and I noticed that I stayed on the same bullock cart, covered, and I assume it was because the head man of this village would - it would be not uncommon for him to be seen in the next village, but if he was seen in two villages away, he might be in some suspect, so in each village I felt a bit - he appeared to be taking me to the Japanese, and if they could get through the Japanese lines, they got lots more money if they could deliver me to our side, and the first day of the trip, I could tell where the sun rose and set that I was going deeper into Japanese territory and thought maybe that they were taking me directly to the Japanese because we were going in that direction. But I decided to - since I didn't have too many choices - although �nobody had a gun that I knew of - that I'd better take a chance. We finally arrived at a river and I was put on a boat and covered with grain - wheat or rye, or some kind of grain, and the people that paddled the boat on the river - it was against the tide part of the time - it was still downstream. They hugged the edges of that river so closely that I knew they were professional oarsmen, that's what they did for a living. We arrived at Moulmein and it had been totally evacuated. Some official must have known that I was going to arrive there because he met the boat at the dock and took me into the alert shack that the British had had at Moulmein. When I got there, the two people on duty said, "We're leaving now," and I noticed that they had some bloody parachutes that they had brought into the alert shack. On the day that I was shot down they Japanese had caught some British planes on the ground and some taken off and shot them all down. I believe one of them told me it was six that they had shot down and I could see the results of that. They had a Studebaker car that they were leaving there and wanted to know if I wanted to go with them. I told them I wasn't going with them because they weren't going to get out, because they were going to have to cross the lines where they were going, that all I wanted them to do was radio Rangoon if they could. They said they would send that message before they left. They radioed Rangoon and a 19 year old sergeant pilot, by himself, landed a Blenheim bomber. I was standing on the end of the runway when he arrived and when he hit the other end of the runway, I made myself clearly visible on the other end by being out on the end of the runway. He taxied up and turned around. I opened the hatch. He says, "Hi?, can you use a turret gun?" I said, "I never have used one but I'll certainly be willing to try if need be." I climbed in and strapped down and he took off downwind on that Blenheim bomber and we flew across that bay from Moulmein to Rangoon. I believe 12 or 15 ft. may have been the height, altitude he was going to stay at below radar. His name was Peters. He landed on my airport, I guess it was Mingaladon, I believe that was it, and didn't get out, dropped me off, took off again, and landed on the British airport. So it was several days waiting to get some teeth �worked on so I could swallow, and it wasn't but a few days before my squadron had to transfer back to China and another squadron came in and I asked to be transferred to the incoming squadron, so that I could get - I felt like about being out that I hadn't had my pro rata share of time on the front, and so they allowed that transfer. And then I was there at the total evacuation and as we went on up through Magwe and Loiwing and on out through Burma as troops pushed us out of Burma. However, when we got to Loiwing, and started to evacuate Loiwing, I had an opportunity to go across the Hump with a convoy and since there were enough pilots there to fly all the planes back and somebody had to go by convoy, I decided I'd like to see that route, and I went back to Kunming by convoy from there. FRANK BORING: We'll talk about the convoy trip in a minute…and what happened was this when you bailed out? ROBERT MOSS: The sidelines caught me on the chin way down here low and took all the hide off and broke 17 teeth. FRANK BORING: Could you begin at the point when you - this is right when you were baling out, right? ROBERT MOSS: That's when I had a chest pack when I bailed out, and I didn't have time to wait and get in the right position, I was so near the ground. As soon as I cleared the airplane, I popped the chest pack and the sidelines caught me on the neck and on the chin and that's when I mentioned that buffalo milk and raw eggs… FRANK BORING: Okay, we don't have any of that on tape, right? I really am sorry to put you through this, but I think it's a very important part. This is what you lived on? If you don't mind… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Moss_Robert_1991-06-09_v06 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Moss, Robert C. "Moose" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-09 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Moose" Moss interview (video and transcript, 6 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert "Moose" Moss by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Moss was a Flight Leader for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." In this tape, Moss touches on the painful memories of combat and shares a memory of the time he bailed out of his airplane and withstood a facial injury in the process. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/96f0727079012e25873c9717084399c3.mp4 b5babc2d9d53fb3130765c0762dcbd85 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f1476a9fc571349d8b9138d5afb82693.pdf b54d04e10aeadd413f6d2dd7a2f0cdd5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert C. "Moose” Moss Date of Interview: 06-09-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 7] FRANK BORING: The actual battle part, what we need is an explanation of - your airplane is now shot up and as I understand it, you're close to the ground - let's start from that point, then take us into the parachute coming off and - is this common that a parachute will do something like that or…? ROBERT MOSS: It's pretty rare, I think that it's pretty rare. Shall I start at when I bailed out of the airplane? FRANK BORING: Also give us an idea of the fact that you were very low to the ground, I don't know how you'll do that and how you survived… ROBERT MOSS: In my attempt to bail out as low to the ground as possible, I was having to wait and having to fly with the canopy open on account of hydraulic oil in the cockpit from the hydraulic line being shot in the combat. And I was fortunate enough that I'm assuming that the Japanese pilots had seen by my actions that they thought that I was just going on into the ground and not bale out, but I had enough control that when I got real low to the ground I had to shut my trim tight to keep the nose up when I rolled over on my back and to drop out very low to the ground so had one been right closely following, he would have had to have been very low to have dumped my 'chute. But when I did drop out and pop the chest pack, a shroud line caught me under the chin and took a lot of hide �and skin off my neck and all round my chin, out to my chin, and broke 17 teeth when it opened. The doctor said they didn't understand how I could take that much shock on the neck and chin without breaking my neck, but it happened and it was fortunate I just lost a bunch of teeth. The airplane fell within a 150 yards of where I did. I walked over and looked at the hole in the ground before anybody came up, and they appeared to be friendly and I just followed them since I didn't speak the language and they started on a program that appeared to me they were going to try to get me back through the Japanese lines to our side, and on that ride, the head man of the village took me on a bull cart loaded with wheat, straw or hay and took me to the next village. He would turn me over to the head man of that new village, he would put on two new oxen but kept the same cart, and we did this for two or three days until we got to a river. I was transferred to a boat and taken down the river 'til we stopped very near the airport at Moulmein. FRANK BORING: What were you living on? ROBERT MOSS: It was so difficult to swallow, I didn't try to eat anything. I drank milk - buffalo milk with raw eggs, and I was just barely able to swallow that, but I think that that gave me plenty of food for sustenance. FRANK BORING: I assume that the AVG thought that you had been shot down. What was the reaction of your pilots, or what was your reaction upon returning to AVG? ROBERT MOSS: I think when the message arrived at Rangoon for somebody to come pick me up that they must have called over at our alert shack and said that he is alive. They had already come to my house in my parent's home and told them I was missing in action and, of course, they couldn't say - that was all there was to it, and the politicians in the local area had already interviewed my parents to want to know if they objected to changing the name of Spence Field, this local air force base to Moss Field, so she was ignorant too. �FRANK BORING: I want to hear your mother’s part of this story, this is great. Start with the politician - you've got to get your mother's comment in here - this is great. ROBERT MOSS: When they approached my parents about naming - renaming Spence Field, they weren't overly exuberant about it, but they said they would have no objection. However, my mother told them that she thought I was a big boy and I was pretty capable of taking care of myself, not to rush things up too much, and she believed that way, and said it made it easier for her, because she believed that. She was right, and she got lucky. FRANK BORING: One thing that I didn't quite grasp when you were describing the one of the things that Charlie Bond has told us about and Joe Rosbert has told us about, the Japanese head was calling a beehive thing and if you get caught in the middle of that, you could really get yourself hurt. ROBERT MOSS: That's exactly what I got caught in. FRANK BORING: From your prospective, can you describe this beehive thing. We've got it from three different pilots now. ROBERT MOSS: First you've got to have somebody hold you in the circle, that's the man on your tail. Then they fly off of the circle and across the circle and either the man will turn inside you - of course, if you can you want to snafu and spin out and get down but when you get pretty low, you can't do that, and sometimes you might think - you don't know how high the land is under you - hill country, 3,000 ft. 4,000 ft. things like that, and it takes a good little bit to pull out in a P40 out of a dive. That thing back then was fast - it would red line at 480 is where the red line was on it as I remember. �FRANK BORING: In these kind of battles, Chennault's whole tactic of two's, was this something that sort of broke apart at this point? You guys were all on your own? ROBERT MOSS: There was a time you had to be on your own because the P40 had the ability, if you had the altitude, to break away from the fight, and that was when you were on your own. FRANK BORING: When this was over with and you had returned back to base, what actually occurred between you and Newkirk? ROBERT MOSS: I never, ever saw him again. FRANK BORING: ……… full description of what happened to Charlie Mott. ROBERT MOSS: I'm the only one - I don't even know how to get - I've never heard his description of it because when he came back with me in Calcutta, we didn't talk about that. We talked about coming home and those things and he did tell me that he dared the mosquitos to give him dengue fever, or any other kind of fever, - malaria. He said the mosquito might get malaria biting him but he was absolutely immune. He did talk like this, he said the first time - and he may have mentioned this in the interview, it would be interesting I think. This may be something that you won't want to put down, but you can ask him. He told me that once he had malaria fever. He said he thought he was going to die - as sick as a person can be and not die. But he wasn't able to get any medicine. He said in a given number of weeks, whether it's three or six or nine or whatever it is, he said he had it again. He said it was real bad, but it wasn't as bad as that first time and he said he kept on having malaria. I don't know whether it was the incubation period or whatever when you get over it or not in your system but he kept having it and he said, finally you just have the chill, small chill and maybe a fever for half a day, and he said within six months or a year and a half, he didn't remember time, he said he never had it again, and he said he woke up realizing that he was immune, that �nobody could give him malaria. He said when he got back somewhere into a hospital, they started giving him [?] or something that turns you yellow and supposed to get it out of your system. But he said that, I'll tell you, while we're off the record, Sully told me that the bravest people that were prisoners that were brought in with them were the Australians. He said that the Australians, a lot of them died, got killed trying to escape. He said a lot of others wouldn't try to escape. He said the Dutch tended to commit suicide instead of trying to escape and he started playing what's the name of the card game that is very popular - started playing with the guards and earn their cigarettes, planning to just barely - what's the name of the most famous card game in America? Anyway, he was playing this card game with the guards and he was trying to arrange it where he would wind up winning one or two cigarettes a day at the most, playing to lose, but he noticed that the competition changed guard and it got a little rougher and he told me that he finally found out that they had sent some of their best players from Japan as his guard and it was really rough for him for to not lose that cigarette that he was using for money to gamble with. Did he tell you about those games? That's something that I felt sure he would tell you that, because he had a lot of time sitting to think. He told me about all that when he was at my place in Calcutta, and I believe he said he made a [?] for a railroad out of a piece of teak wood. Did he tell you about that? � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Moss_Robert_1991-06-09_v07 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Moss, Robert C. "Moose" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-09 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Moose" Moss interview (video and transcript, 7 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert "Moose" Moss by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Moss was a Flight Leader for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." In this tape, Moss continues the story of the time he bailed out of his airplane after being caught in the middle of a beehive flight tactic and the reaction he received upon returning to the AVG. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d0b5402ff4215c5467a117cf116d8552.mp4 2202e7cde1d922cbf7f9dfb3c0bee576 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/083541e3d9186cbfa2008cc63f7bb72f.pdf 98179e301e6d85099988c730dd6b08b0 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert C. "Moose” Moss Date of Interview: 06-09-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 8] FRANK BORING: And once again, if you don't remember a lot of it, you can just describe what you just said about the battle and your hands are full. ROBERT MOSS: I was flying on Charlie's wing on mission to strafe [?] in enemy territory and we located the airport, caught the planes on the ground and started making runs and had made several runs and billowing smoke from more than one aircraft and began to seize a few tracers, and then I believe on the next run, Charlie was crippled and he pulled up and bailed out. It's pretty hard to remember all the details because of how busy you are. You're trying to establish what your next run will be, most effective run and knowing that you had ground fire, you were either hoping to make a run to stop that or to evade it. It's pretty difficult to remember details when you have a lot of work to do. FRANK BORING: Were you present at the fall of Rangoon? You were one of the last ones to get out of…? ROBERT MOSS: I think so. FRANK BORING: Can you recall any of that - the fall of Rangoon? ROBERT MOSS: What is the name of the hotel, the main hotel in Rangoon? �FRANK BORING: Raffles, Silver Grill? You could just say the main hotel. ROBERT MOSS: Yesterday I could probably have told you the name of it. That's where everybody stays when they arrive and that sort of thing. When most people had already left and those that hadn't were trying to leave, I tied a water buffalo in the lobby of the main hotel in Rangoon so we could have fresh milk for the last morning's coffee before we left, and I went and milked this water buffalo and had fresh milk for our coffee. FRANK BORING: Do you know where Kitten, the snow leopard came from? I've seen pictures of it - of you with it. ROBERT MOSS: I don't know where it came from. FRANK BORING: How did you react to that cat - having that cat around as a mascot? ROBERT MOSS: I think it's more in history than in actuality. It were young enough to take some pictures with it but it didn't stay around a long time. I don't think anybody kept it, brought it home for a pet. FRANK BORING: Burma Bob did, Bob Locke. He took it all up and down the Burma Road. So you just basically posed for a picture. What was your impression of the supply and the repair situation during these wartime - you'd come in, they'd fix up your airplane, then you'd be able to go out again. What was your impression of the supply situation? ROBERT MOSS: I thought that the mechanics were very innovative, they did a tremendous job on keeping the planes in the air. I think when one plane was washed out, they went and covered it immediately and removed everything they could possibly reuse because supplies are something - was almost unknown. They did a fantastic job in that area. �FRANK BORING: What was your relationship with the ground crew? You had George Bailey at this time? ROBERT MOSS: Yes. FRANK BORING: Give us some idea of what it is that you two talked about. Did you come in and say, "George, I have a problem with this, or I have a problem with that," and you'd talk it over. What was that relationship like? ROBERT MOSS: George had tremendous pride in keeping my plane, what he would consider being the fastest in the group, tremendous amount of pride. The waxing and polish jobs that he would put on it. At least, he would tell me that this will have less friction. So we had a rather fine relationship. FRANK BORING: Did you two tease each other, or kid each other about the condition of the airplane you'd bring in or something? ROBERT MOSS: He'd just give me plenty of hell, if I came in with four holes in an airplane or six, that he was going to have to sit up half the night and work on the skin on it. FRANK BORING: Can you do that again? Make sure you mention George's name because we'll probably play this for him on the 4th of July. ROBERT MOSS: Our relationship as pilot and crew chief cannot have better, but there were times when I would come in with what he considered an extra few holes in the plane. He'd stand up and really give me hell because he was going to have to stay up at night and get that skin fixed right back on that airplane. He had a lot of pride in the way it looked and the way it flew. FRANK BORING: Forgot to mention George again! I'm sorry! We've got to have a context of it being George that you're talking about. �ROBERT MOSS: George Bailey, my crew chief and I had a very close, personal relationship as well as a working relationship. So he felt at ease to just stand up and give me holy hell for bringing a plane with a few holes in it that he would have to be up all night getting that skin patched and fixed and be ready - have it on the line next day. FRANK BORING: That was good. ROBERT MOSS: ………… I don't believe I understand the question. I believe that was the field that Charlie Mott and I… FRANK BORING: In February, a banquet was thrown by Chiang Kai-shek and Madame Chiang Kai-shek. Do you remember that banquet? ROBERT MOSS: Yes. FRANK BORING: Could you describe for us the banquet itself and your impressions of Chiang Kai-shek and Madame Chiang Kai-shek? ROBERT MOSS: It's been quite a few years since the Madame went to school here in Georgia. She kind of picked me out as a person who was from Georgia and I don't know if everybody was honored with a scarf from a T shirt with some kind of [?] on it but I got one. I don't know which girl got it but I received one that night. The dinner was wonderful Chinese chow as I remember, but as far as remembering details of what might have gone on or what the speeches were about, I have no idea. FRANK BORING: What was your first impression of Chiang Kai-shek? ROBERT MOSS: I always felt like that Chiang Kai-shek was a war lord, fighting for survival, and that's as close - and I got little rumors through the grapevine in as much as he didn't talk to anybody in English that I remember. FRANK BORING: What was your impression of Madame Chiang Kai-shek? �ROBERT MOSS: I think she didn't differ very much from women all over the world. In my experience, although meagre, I find that women are really the power most of the time instead of the men, in all ages that I've had a chance to read about. FRANK BORING: [?] was one of the pilots on that. Do you recall that at all? They came in and they did a run and everybody had to fall flat on the ground and then they finally did escort them out. They lost four of the airplanes, they got lost? ROBERT MOSS: I'm not sure that I remember that at all. I do know that one sort of exhibition that Bob Laird came over the field a slow roll and went down behind a rock wall that wasn't really high and went out of sight before he came up to show himself again and everybody thought he was gone. I don't know whether the time that you're talking about or not. FRANK BORING: What was your evaluation of – personally - of Boyington? ROBERT MOSS: I hate for you all to put something about that on my - I'm giving you my personal evaluation but I don't want to make it for the record. Cut it off and I'll tell you what I think about him. In Magwe where we had a jeep strafe trying to leave the field and when the Japanese set fire to some British bombers and they all exploded on the field. When this was all over and we went back to our chief plantation, cook or some of his help had stepped out the back door and stepped into a jug and the back of the glass came up and hit his heel string and almost cut it in two, and the scenario is that Doc Rich finally got him up on the kitchen table to clean the wound and see if he could repair the damage. Prescott was holding the light, the flashlight for Doc Rich to do the operation, and I was standing right beside Prescott and somebody came in and told Doc Rich that the boy that was in bed in the next room was dead now, that he wasn't breathing anymore and Doc Rich said, well, there isn't anything that we can do for him now. I'm working on this. If he's �already dead, we can't help him any. So in just a moment, the lights kind of wavered, and Doc Rich said, "Moose, don't you jog Prescott into asking one more time and make him shake that light. It's hard enough, trying to do this with a flashlight, and somebody back there playing. I said, "Doc, I didn't touch it." "I know damn well you did." In a little bit, it waved again, and he really got down on me that time, called me things he shouldn't have called me. I told him I hadn't touched him at all and, before he get through cussing me, old Prescott went, "Wheeeew". He hit the floor, he'd fainted from the odor and the smell of that. It took Rich ten years to apologize to me for that, but finally came back and apologized, fifteen or twenty years later, but he was so angry and it was so much like me to have been doing that he just knew that I was doing it to worry him. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Moss_Robert_1991-06-09_v08 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Moss, Robert C. "Moose" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-09 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Moose" Moss interview (video and transcript, 8 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert "Moose" Moss by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Moss was a Flight Leader for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." In this tape, Moss discusses his impression of the supply and repair situation during wartime and his relationship with the ground crew. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ffdb2b3306587c1f1ee880da07e3194c.mp4 ef895cb1c2616c92b6b144f1a143a844 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e370deba96fe1b4140f50087359fc834.pdf 85619201c12629c836cbb273e2d42d83 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert C. "Moose” Moss Date of Interview: 06-09-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 9] ROBERT MOSS: Do you want me to say something else about on the ground at Magwe? FRANK BORING: Yeah. What we'd like to talk about is, if you can begin it at the point where you had gone to lunch. You were on duty, you had gone to lunch and then you came back. Start with - you were on duty at Magwe, then you went to lunch and go from there. ROBERT MOSS: I was on duty one day at Magwe and had gone to lunch with the other pilots that were then on duty with me. As we returned from lunch and got on to the field, we noticed our planes becoming airborne, and we rushed on up to the shack to find them and what information that they had received, and by that time, someone sighted the enemy planes, so we felt that we didn't have time to get us off the airport, so we just dived into the slip trenches that were there for that purpose, right by the alert shack. As I remember, a wave of fighters came in first and strafed several British planes that were on the field and loaded with bombs and sit wasn't long ‘til those that were on fire started to have extra explosions from the bombs exploding. Some of the people tried to get off the field, but about that time, a wave - as I remember - a wave of Japanese bombers came over and did attempt to bomb the airfield and maybe some more of those planes they couldn't see that were on fire. In attempting to get off the field or change slit trenches while �the bombs were falling is when Forth was killed, also a pilot died… FRANK BORING: Swartz. ROBERT MOSS: …… During this raid, when the people on the field felt that the raid was over and tried to move to greater safety is when Swartz was injured severely and later died in India as a result of that injury and when Forth was killed almost immediately. Later on as we tried to leave the field, the bombs and the bombers were continuing to go off, causing a lot of distraction, and some pilots on the edge of the field were trying to survey the damage and while a bomb would go off and they would crawl back to the slip trench like a snake crawling so as to stay below the flack. FRANK BORING: What happened to Olson? You had mentioned that Olson had apparently gotten into a jeep and had gotten shot at? ROBERT MOSS: Yes, he did, Alan and I had to bring it in, but he… FRANK BORING: I think you might want to start, when you first talked about… ROBERT MOSS: It was a hell of a loss, anyway, see there's one thing for a plane to explode, but then when their bombs go off, you don't know whether they had a personal bombs or what on them, and you could hear that stuff whizzing across that airport. And they were British bombers. If you're ready to take on, [?] say something else you might keep. And during this raid as when our Group Chief Olson tried to leave the airport, on a jeep and the jeep was stripped and damaged badly, although Olson was not hit, his camera is said to have had a whole in it. FRANK BORING: Give us your idea, you had mentioned about to take off in a P-40, this is later, I guess, it was stripped? �ROBERT MOSS: When the Japanese, came close, [?] to Magwe, some of the mechanics said that if we could get a pilot to stay an extra day that they could probably have a P-40 ready to go to Loiwing. And I volunteered to stay over and fly that plane over to Loiwing which was our next base. I had no idea that all the flight instruments would have been robbed out but since it was day light, I had , didn't have much choice, I made it alright to Loiwing with that plane and they gave us another plane in the [?] - I was happy to do so. Two plantations in northern Burma and Northern India are quite the same. They were all operated by English people that were sent out to represent the large tea companies. They had pretty strict regulations. They never had their scotch until after 6. They had, during this war, they had been moved out and evacuated and sent back to Europe and these two plantations manager's homes were places where we had the finest opportunity to have housing that would have mosquito nets and cooking facilities so we took advantage ad we evacuated to find the biggest and best tea plantations that were closest to our air strips and we utilized that. FRANK BORING: You had mentioned when the camera was off, that it took a humorous, a certain sense of humor to get through all that. I wonder if you could comment on that again. ROBERT MOSS: I don't believe I can. FRANK BORING: Just don't remember it or? ROBERT MOSS: Oh, well, I don't know if it would try to set me aside of being a different kind of person but I think there must be a thread of humor to make the unbearable, maybe bearable. FRANK BORING: Toward the latter part of the AVG's existence, when the Japanese were coming closer and closer and you were moving from air base to air base, what would you say the morale was like amongst the pilots and the crew as equipment started to run out and the �airplanes were getting worse and worse shape, you were being kept awake by night bombings and the fighting? ROBERT MOSS: In the later stages of my employment in northern Burma, when we were pushed out by foot soldiers, instead of being defeated in the air, I feel that the morale, the pilot's morale, of the crews, remained extremely high, feeling that although we were backing up, we were still being effective in what we were put there to do. I didn't ever feel or see as a general thing a lowering of morale on maybe until the time of the disappointing species for the offer of induction back in to the military forces to the United States. FRANK BORING: Let's go to your , what was your hearing, what were the rumors that were going around about the American Army Air Corp. going to actually take over the AVG? Did you hear any scuttlebutt or… ROBERT MOSS: None. FRANK BORING: OK. When did you first hear that the Army Air Corp was going to be incorporated into the AVG? ROBERT MOSS: Maybe 2 or 3 days before the Air Corporation, maybe a week, I don't know, I can't remember. FRANK BORING: Do you recall the meeting that was called together by Bissell? ROBERT MOSS: I think that I was there. FRANK BORING: OK. Can you tell us what happened at that meeting? ROBERT MOSS: The meeting that was called to offer the organization an opportunity to come back in to the services of the United States was held by a Gen. Bissell who apparently had very little knowledge of what we knew about publicity that we had gotten in the United States. He started off by telling us very early that he had, the previous day or so, had seen a couple of victory roles over �the field, when we came back into the service, the United States of course, would be court-martialed if we did that. That we, the publicity that we had gotten in the United States as heroes, that we could do no wrong, but the, they wanted to remind each person there that they would be on strict orders or U.S. military from the day that they signed. We didn't know that we were supposed to be heroes. We just knew we were tired. We knew what our release from the armed forces said that we could do, we had a choice. He stated that as soon as we hit the United States, if we decided to go home, then we'd be drafted, well I knew better than that, because I had it in writing that I wouldn't be drafted as soon as I hit the United States. The only time I ever saw Chennault shed a tear, ever, was after that meeting. He said, Moss he's ruined me. And five I believe is the number that joined. The rest decided to come state side. And on the way out, 17 of us stopped over for the money involved with CNAC. And I was one of the 17. And Duke Hedman and I matched to see who would have seniority. We were both ready to check out the same day after the first time we'd ever been in motor engine equipment, 2 weeks and 1 day, we managed to see who took off first, who would have seniority - and I lost. So Duke was the only one senior to me in that organization - in that part of the organization. FRANK BORING: What you said about the conversation you had with Chennault, did you talk to him in any detail after that meeting? ROBERT MOSS: I didn't talk to him in detail, I furnished a shoulder for him to cry on a little bit, person to person he just felt like he'd been castrated. He was hurt deeply because he was planning to rotate these people home and give them a program of rotation and come right back, knowing they'd be ready to come back as soon as he got a break of any kind, and all that was eliminated in Bissell's speech. And it hurt him. He never got over it. FRANK BORING: What was your personal...? � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Moss_Robert_1991-06-09_v09 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Moss, Robert C. "Moose" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-09 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Moose" Moss interview (video and transcript, 9 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert "Moose" Moss by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Moss was a Flight Leader for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." In this tape, Moss discusses the morale within the AVG during the latter part of their existence in addition to the meeting with General Bissell and how it affected General Chennault. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/34276c9fb00707dd5cf56cb3134ef5e3.mp4 d96ffd9bfb4cce9a143e58b1df828818 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3e2ab5ece284d6894a257bdd687c7e97.pdf 4ec3be016769dcc6687d067586eeda06 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert C. "Moose” Moss Date of Interview: 06-09-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 10] FRANK BORING: Why do you think Chennault called on you to - as you put it- cry on his shoulder? ROBERT MOSS: Chennault seemed like - always made me feel that he was close to me because he challenged me to pistol duels and I was one of the youngest kids there and he had hunted a lot when he was flying in the United States on a little team that he was flying. His mechanic lived about 50 miles from here and he taught me about the quail hunting and he knew I was raised with a shotgun in my hand and I guess we maybe felt a little close. And you know, just walking away, something can hit a man that he feels like spilling it right there and those words might not be his exact words, but that's about how I remember him saying it and he said it to me walking in a hall into a room - of course it wasn't long till there was a bunch of people in there - but as I said it's the only time I ever saw him with tears in his eyes. I know that he was hurt, permanently hurt. He was hurt even worse when MacArthur sat still and let them destroy all the air power in the Pacific waiting for somebody to declare war before they'd protect themselves. That hurt Chennault. He said "How are you going to cooperate with somebody that won't protect themselves?" He said "How do you, when you don't know what he's gonna do next?" I have to agree with that a lot, that's the way I feel. �FRANK BORING: You were a very young man at that time and he was a much older man. How did you look at your relationship with Chennault? I realize he was your leader and all that, but personally what did you see as your relationship with him? ROBERT MOSS: Well he had a knack of bringing the two together. He had a knack of getting to your level. I know it was pretty hard for him to get down to my level, but he had a real knack of making you feel comfortable with him and I think he could do that to heads of state or to a sharecropper's son. FRANK BORING: If we were able to look through your eyes, if we were looking at Chennault, what would you see? ROBERT MOSS: I would say that Chennault was a man of vision with some well thought out wisdom to go along with it, but I think that vision and the belief in the future and the non-give up attitude that he had all his life - I know he had it all his life - because he talked about when he was a boy and what he did. He is just one of the people that I admire greatly that I don't think history will be able to show, to give him his fair place. I don't think that history knows enough about - knew enough about him personally, that they can place him correctly in history. And he only wanted to be placed in a very narrow range. He didn't want to be thought of as a great public speaker, he didn't want to be thought of as anything except a tactician that was able to search out the weaknesses and coach a team that could defeat the enemy based on the tactics that had evolved from his experience and knowledge of the equipment that they flew and their own personality - and the personality of who was flying had a lot to do with it. FRANK BORING: I realize that anyone that was either hurt or died in the AVG would affect every member of the AVG, but was there anyone in particular that sort of brought it all home to you? One that affected you more deeply, one that you perhaps suddenly realized about your own mortality? �ROBERT MOSS: I think in terms of stress and emergency, combat, death is possible. I think that it's sad when someone has to die because of something of which he had no particular control and I think that I was hurt as much when our own plane flew into the Studebaker that killed a Texas cohort. He was in there sleeping and I understand perfectly why the airplane veered because couldn't see. But it's real sad for someone to lose their life and had no possible chance to gain anything by losing his life. We were over there, if we would have lost our life - I'll say one thing that I said in combat, talked out loud, in the heat of combat. I said "The little bastards will never take me alive." I don't know why. And it just came to me today and now, I said that out loud and I woke myself up and was surprised myself at hearing myself say that. But see, he didn't have a chance to get anything back for giving his life and those are the things that to me are the saddest. And of course all those that didn't come back, they paid the price, not the ones that are here. FRANK BORING: The First Squadron and the Second Squadron, there was Bond, Boyington, Rector, Keeton, yourself and this is when McGarry was lost. I wonder if you could recall that day? ROBERT MOSS: I don't think that I was on the mission. I'm not sure, but if I was, I wasn't flying in the same flight with him. I know that. But I don't think that I can - maybe the hurt or the fact that I was a classmate all the way through and he was such an unusual individual. He didn't fit anyplace you put him. He didn't fit in our organization, he didn't fit in college, he should have not gone to war, he should have gone to church. I never saw where he fit, but wherever he was, when the grades came out, he was top of his class and that's so unusual. I never met a character of his sort, he never fit, but he was most likely the best there and he apologized anytime he whipped you at anything. He made excuses for you. FRANK BORING: Do you recall an incident in which some of the pilots were upset over certain missions that were being assigned. There was never an �example of a pilot shirking responsibility of going into battle, but there were morale missions that were being asked to just show your face, so to speak, at a low altitude over the Chinese troops to show the Chinese troops that there was an Air Force out there. But the problem was there was a grave danger in the Japanese ground fire and air attacks and at one point Chennault was actually presented with a petition stating that they didn't want to do that, they didn't think it was fair. Do you recall that at all? ROBERT MOSS: Yes, I recall that. I was at Loiwing at the time. I don't know any of the details because the radio conversations went on with the Squadron Leaders and the people receiving the messages. I believe that that was Boyington, I believe I'm correct. Boyington was there with us. I believe that he had a fairly sensible answer if the question was correct and the way I understood it, he personally did it - was the final straw for him. Let's make this off the record, then if you see anything about it that you can put back that you think will help, we'll try to do that again. FRANK BORING: ……this fellow friend from Doe Run? ROBERT MOSS: Well that was the 32nd orientation for the Chinese. But I don't know the details but he was shot down FRANK BORING: The very beginning of the story you talked about this - you were on your way out - that's all we want - you don't have to go into the whole after part, but please make sure that you were on your way out and he was on his way in and the fact that he was somebody from… ROBERT MOSS: He was a personal friend of mine. We went through high school together. (break) �ROBERT MOSS: After we disbanded and I was on my way home through India, at the airport I ran into Clyde Slocumb from over in Georgia and I had known all my life and he was a part of the 14th Air Force coming in to fly with Chennault. He asked me to give him a little advice about the Japanese and I think I told him that - not to try to win the war all in one day and don't try to win it by yourself. Try to fly in such a manner that you can come back home and fly again tomorrow and if you do that it'll be a lot better than trying to do it all at once. FRANK BORING: I'm going to ask three more questions. We’re finally down to the last few. But these three are… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Moss_Robert_1991-06-09_v10 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Moss, Robert C. "Moose" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-09 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Moose" Moss interview (video and transcript, 10 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert "Moose" Moss by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Moss was a Flight Leader for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." In this tape, Moss describes his close relationship with General Chennault and his ability to bring people together as a man of vision. He also reflects on the losses he experienced as a Flying Tiger and how it affected his work. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/79536a198e19d217a03db63021e53c7e.mp4 d555b75b206b745697a96057b4e2f321 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c081a02bc839124feb9f0cf7497cc4ca.pdf 0e028ace15fda8adbdfe13f69abccd06 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Robert C. "Moose” Moss Date of Interview: 06-09-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 11] ROBERT MOSS: Now then, I’m ready for that one – the one looking back. That’s the easy one. FRANK BORING: What do you think the AVG accomplished in its brief one year? ROBERT MOSS: I think the best thing that the AVG accomplished was that we were the one source maybe of good news during most of that period of time in the United States, although we didn't know that we were the good news, when the good news was happening. I think maybe looking back is it maybe we might have caused the war to last longer. I don't think that we helped very much determine the outcome of the war, but I think that the spirit that we gave to the people of the United States at a time when they were getting kicked in the teeth in every direction, may have been worth the price that we paid to go. FRANK BORING: What effect do you think it had on the Chinese? ROBERT MOSS: The effect that we had on the Chinese in my opinion was to the people that we were near and could make them feel a little more safe or would allow them to open their store in the daytime instead of at night and sleep at their house instead of in the mountains and slit trenches. I think it was a matter of comfort to them for us to be there. However, I think that sooner or later approximately the same �thing that did happen, would have happened and if it had happened earlier, I don't think the average Chinese would have been any worse off by it. I don't think we changed much for the Chinese and I also would like to say that I think that the Communists, when they took over, did a lot of good things for China as well as all the bad that totalitarian governments do when they're in command. But they quit having to eat stray dogs. A Chinese man or anybody in any country will go if he's hungry where he thinks he can get the best food and I think that is what moved the Chinese population in the direction that they were moved. I think they went where they could get the best food and maybe if they weren't going there they might have got killed for not going and it's two damn good reasons to go in that direction. FRANK BORING: Final question… (break) FRANK BORING: That's what I want… ROBERT MOSS: I think I've been to China 3 or 4 times. I've been so far back in the boondocks they hadn't seen a Caucasian, ever, this generation of people. Walked and spent time and they maybe have heard of that war, but back in those places nothing much has changed by their way of life or their style of existence. I think when they ordered everybody to catch so many flies a week and turn them in and I think when they started having to buy flies from a neighbor that happened to catch more than their share and they couldn't catch theirs, I think it's a wonderful thing. I think that they got rid of a lot of bugs. I think the idea that they don't have people own, the government payroll, that sitting and doing nothing, they'll have a job. They sweep the roadways through the countryside early in the morning to get all the sand off the pavement. It gives those instead of being on relief, it may give them a feeling that they're earning what they're getting for doing that. I think one of the things that America and our people and my children and grandchildren need �to know, is just because it's American doesn't mean it's the best or either that it's right. But I know that we crucified and our soldiers did, the people where they came into port, the Americans took all the women. They had all the money. The Dutch had their meager allowance and they almost may as well have not gotten off the ship, so we got our head up like a charging bull and go through all these countries making them - try to make them feel inferior whereas the Chinese, for example, think there's a real art in knowing how to eat and we just try to eat instead of knowing how to eat. It's not real important to most people here. So I think that anytime that one can travel in time of war or in time of peace and understand that it's not necessarily right because it's the way you do it. I think that's a real lesson to learn and I didn't learn it very soon in life. But I think I've recognized it by now. (break) ROBERT MOSS: I don't know why, but a lot of us figured it was a matter of time that he would have to be escorted out of mainland China or being held as prisoner there. He was in a poor part of China. He'd been pushed back, so to speak, into areas of China where people were destitute and they didn't have much to go on and the Communists had taken over the rich areas of China where they would have funds to get rid of anybody they wanted to get rid of or pull in anybody they wanted to get rid of. That's an opinion, that's not a historical fact. FRANK BORING: Last thing that I have to ask. You mentioned as you were getting off the plane in Rangoon, you said that Peters this… ROBERT MOSS: When we arrived in Rangoon on this Blenheim bomber with this Sergeant pilot flying the plane whose name was Peters, he shut one engine down as a courtesy for me to get out without being blown too badly and as I climbed through the cockpit from the turret gun post, I told him that there wasn't any way that I could express how much I felt or how much I appreciated him volunteering to come �over into enemy territory, pick up a pilot that he never knew and never seen before. (break) FRANK BORING: Start again from arriving in Rangoon. ROBERT MOSS: After we arrived in Rangoon I told him it was no way that I could… (break) FRANK BORING: Start from the top. ROBERT MOSS: After being brought by the underground to Moulmein this British pilot by the name of Peters, in a Blenheim bomber dropped in on the runway to pick me up, asked me "Yank, can you use a turret gun?" I said "If it's got a trigger on it I'll try to use it if we need it" and he said "Good" and he headed down the runway and took off downwind and all the way to Rangoon I don't think we got over 15 feet above the water. He was trying to stay on the radar level. When we arrived and he taxied up to my alert tent, I told him "Peters, there's no way that I can show you or tell you how much I appreciate you risking your life to come for me, a pilot that you had never known and never seen and may not ever see again." I said "It's an extraordinary thing to do and of course I would be grateful every day of my life and I thank you so much." FRANK BORING: What do you think you personally accomplished during that period of the AVG and what did it do to affect you the rest of your life? ROBERT MOSS: One of the things that I think that I learned in the AVG was to gather enough courage to overcome fear, at least partially overcome fear and to think clearly in a time of stress. I think that I brought that back home with me and have used it repeatedly in life and in advice to my own children and to my family and to the �young people that I deal with on a day-to-day basis. It's to know that it's all out there just beyond the horizon, it's there for you, but you have to overcome the fear of the unknown to reach for it. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Moss_Robert_1991-06-09_v11 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Moss, Robert C. "Moose" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-09 Title A name given to the resource Robert "Moose" Moss interview (video and transcript, 11 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Robert "Moose" Moss by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Moss was a Flight Leader for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." In this tape, Moss discusses the accomplishments of the American Volunteer Group during their brief year of service and what their work meant to the Chinese people. He also discusses his personal accomplishments and how his time as a Flying Tiger had a profound effect on the rest of his life. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2765b03be94d08634116cd01b0c3b2b5.mp4 9ac36722aaa0ca15de2bfd0d9c076bc1 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f3f0588b2caa551424559aca74119707.pdf 6961cd7b4d3c750ebd8be9e17b8ce16a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Charles “Charlie” Mott Date of Interview: 05-16-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] CHARLIE MOTT: Recently I had occasion to look in 1940… in 1940 Claire Chennault retired. Army Officers submitted a plan relating to the use of American air power to contain the Japanese. This plan was submitted to the joint board. Now the joint board was a predecessor to JCS. It was reviewed by the joint board and approved by the Secretary of the Navy and the Secretary of the Army. The President was aware of it although there is no piece of paper that I would find which said I approved of this. Commencing then in late fall 1940 the AVG then started to be organized. A bird dog of the President, Lauchlin Currie, was the principal agent for coordinating matters and introducing the President's views into this. The result of this was the allocation of lend lease funds approval of a general plan to form an air force, American airplanes, manned by American pilots to be used to contain Japan using interdiction techniques and attacking some of the installations on Japan proper. Over the objections of certain established officers in the Army and Navy some retired officers were authorized to visit the bases and my particular contact, first contact, was San Diego, North Island, when a retired Commander Irvine appeared on the scene, set up shop down in a hotel in Coronado and interviewed prospective volunteers. There I was one of a number of pilots and enlisted men who volunteered for service. Now this we're talking about took place in April and May 1941. We, of course, were unable to resign our commissions on �whimsy there was a moratorium on resigning your commission even though we were finishing up our four years of obligated service in the Navy. But we were permitted to submit them and they were accepted by the government at the convenience of the government whereupon we became free agents and signed a contract for CAMCO. About 2 weeks leave and my wife and I, we had no children, spent it taking a tour of California and generally getting ready for a year's separation. The rendezvous established was San Francisco and on the appointed date, some 125 of us arrived at the hotel in San Francisco on this secret mission. FRANK BORING: Your education? CHARLIE MOTT: By education I am a civil engineer. Graduated University of Pennsylvania, worked in civil engineering world for a year and then got the flying itch. It was springtime in Philadelphia. It was May and a friend of mine passed the word to me that all you had to do was sign up and go down to the Philadelphia Navy Yard and you get your necessary hours and become an aviator. So I quit my job which had been as a junior engineer in a field company and I went down and signed up as a seaman second class U. S. Naval Reserve at the Naval Reserve Air Base. I received orders to report and we took what in those days, and later on, was called Elimination Training. Before you were sent down for the big expensive course there is a screening process in which you got enough hours to solo and they got a good look at you and if they didn't like you, you never got to Pensacola and vice versa. But, anyhow, I settled there and then after about a 6 week wait then received order to go to Pensacola , completed the training there. It was very thorough, we got to fly all kinds: airplanes, fighters, patrol boats, scouts as well as the old pearls. I was ordered to the fleet aboard then the Ranger which is CVA4, the first carrier designed from scratch as an aircraft carrier. She was a bargain basement ship, she was only about 14,000 tons, small flight deck, but I managed to qualify aboard her and shortly after the qualify, we shifted to the Saratoga and became, Bombing 3, the Air Group �3. There was a very rigorous training program in the Navy for aviators you had to qualify with bomb scores and if I recall the qualification score then was on your qualifying run which is 5 or 6 bombs was 55 feet .from the pin on the average. This paid off later in the battle of Midway when we rung up 1 out of 3 direct hits on carriers with dive bombers. Followed three years of very enjoyable, busy, work aboard carriers, qualifying at night without the electronic aids, it was very, little [?] at times, but at least you felt you could handle any situation. This was my personal situation when Commander Irvine retired. Appeared at North Island with this announcement that indeed Reserve Officers and only Reserve Officers were authorized to submit resignations in order to accept a contract with Central Aircraft Manufacturing Company, which was a corporation set up to administer Lend Lease funds and pay a group to fly American airplanes. My application was accepted in April. We rendezvous in June in San Francisco some 125. A mixed bag, a lot of friends of mine from the Saratoga signed up. There were people like Bob Neale, Fritz Wolf, Hal Weston was actually in the [?] squadron, Bob Powers, Mickey McBarr. And we had quite a little clique. I had always been interested in the Chinese, back in University we had a number of Chinese students, most of them attending the Wharton Business School. They were quite active in the church, Christian association. So we got to know a number of them and was struck by fact that they were intelligent, civilized and sociable people -- I liked them. At the same time the American public, in general, and particularly people like me who were interested in China were aware of that was going on in the Japanese encroachment, the Marco Polo bridge incident of 1907, the attack on Shanghai, there is a film which the Chinese put out which I think had a tremendous impact in this country. The Chinese didn't put it out, they helped, it was one of the newsreel outfits put it out It was entitled "China Fights Back". Very powerful movie. My wife and I made it a point to see that before we left, because I was trying to buck up her morale, too. So it was an adventure. One of the things that really distresses is the idea that the American volunteer group was a bunch of mercenaries, quite �the contrary. We had two of the pilots in our squadron actually were sons of missionaries in China, i.e., Jim Howard and Tex Hill. They were dedicated to helping China. Some people, I won't mention any names on this, were unhappy in a current situation and were trying to change the environment and strike out anew in a new direction. In the cases I can think of they weren't able to change the spots on the leopard they made a mess out of it again. There were those who the pay was adequate certainly and this was the motivating factor, but most of all, you were engaged in your profession and it was an adventure and if you didn't have these elements you were unhappy. FRANK BORING: Charlie what was the conversation with your wife and your family? What did you tell them? CHARLIE MOTT: My wife and I had several long talks about this. We both felt that in the Navy we were at the end of an era. We were Reserves. My wife and I had several long conversations about it and we actually had a meeting of the minds. When it came to the decision to leave the Navy, my wife and I had several very long conversations. And we were of a common mind. We had no children. We were both you might say free in that respect and we agreed it was time for a change we had been in the Navy for 4 years and we thought in terms of career in civil aviation. It was in fact an opportunity to leave the Navy and after a year to come back, professionally improved and also as a free agent. Now I mentioned that there were a number of pilots in my squadron who had signed up --some five. We had skipper whose name was Blick, Whitey Blick. Whitey was the sort of fatherly type he made a special trip back to Washington to look into this to make sure it was as the Australians would say "thinkem McCoy". He did. He came back and Whitey called us in and said I been back and been assured that in your jacket there is a reference a paper in the personal safe of the Chief of the Bureau of Navigation, who handled personnel matters, who was then Chester Nimitz, and piece of paper says that when you come back after a year you will be re-instated in the Navy without �loss of rank or [?] regardless of physical condition. With that assurance that sealed our views on the matter so I signed up. My wife and I had a sort of a second honeymoon - we toured California when California wasn't so congested, rendezvous with the rest of the party. We were actually the second party, which left from San Francisco aboard the Dutch ship, motor ship, Jaegersfontein. Where was this large disparate group and naturally what happened was people were attracted to people they knew and we were a clique and we pretty well stuck together and the former enlisted people were the same way… not only did they stick together in general but within their rate, the radiomen stuck together, the crew chiefs stuck together and ordnance people stuck together and there was not a great deal of cross fertilization. We had dinner there and then a retired light Colonel by name of Aldworth, sought me out and said, "Charlie, I want to talk to you". I never really, I met him casually, but he was not one of the recruiters that was recruiting in the Navy. So we went into a side room and he said, "Charlie, you are going to be in charge of this group". And I thought hum, I got to take this bunch clean across half a globe, aboard a foreign ship, it's going to take about 6 weeks without benefit of articles of the government or the United States Navy or the War Department. I said, "Where are my orders?" He said write them out. So there was desk with some hotel stationary there so I sat down and wrote out my orders. I had them around the house for a while, but they are lost somewhere. But basically what it says is you are hereby appointed as the leader of the American Volunteer Group/CAMCO aboard, sailing about the motor ship Jaegersfontein for Rangoon, Burma. Paragraph 2: You will take such steps as you deem necessary to maintain order and promote the efforts of the group. Signed, Richard Aldworth. So with that why I enjoyed a special status and was invited to the special dinner the skipper of the Dutch ship, his name was Braugher. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Mott_Charlie_1991-05-16_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mott, Charles D. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-16 Title A name given to the resource Charlie Mott interview (video and transcript, 1 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Charles Mott by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Charles Mott was a Flight Leader for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." Recruited from the U.S. Navy, where he served three years as a Dive Bomber pilot, he joined the AVG in 1941. During a mission over Thailand, he was shot down by ground fire and captured, severely wounded. He was placed in a POW camp along the River Kwai railway for 3 1/2 years and repatriated at the end of the war. He was the sole survivor of the four AVG pilots captured. In this tape, Mott describes his background as a civil engineer before becoming an aviator in the Navy and later joining the AVG. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f554e75b6303f766583987f5043cf8b9.mp4 8524d742009991c9e7a4491720eaa4a4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c986bbb3ec73ea96875734bb9fb9df34.pdf 51ca9f7c5a0a50aed5b1168da6ad824a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Charles “Charlie” Mott Date of Interview: 05-16-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] CHARLIE MOTT: Colonel Aldworth explained his selection to me very simply, you're the senior Naval officer, and I was an ensign just coming up for J.G. So we were all not only young at heart, but young in years. This was rather, it gave me a rather humble feeling because it wasn't a question of my buddies the pilots, or the Army Air Corp pilots, it was a question of some of the enlisted men. And in particular, I won't mention any names, a couple of them that I knew were just bad apples, because they had been in the Squadron and they had been bad apples since I first laid eyes on them. Here for the first time they were out from under military discipline, they had more than enough money to get drunk. Colonel Aldsworth's choice of me as leader of this group was simply because I was the senior Naval officer. I was an ensign and just coming up for junior grade lieutenant and that was enough. Of course he sized me up and noticed that I was clean cut, nice living, well-mannered and all these other good things. That night we were invited to dinner by Dutch skipper his name was Braugher [?] and we had our first exposure to a proper Dutch dinner. It was rather amusing. They Dutch always have a first course which is not just a salad and something like that it is something substantial like fish, boiled potatoes, maybe a little sauerkraut. Enough for a meal for anybody, but that is only the beginning then some the entree. We enjoyed it very much we were also introduced to a terrible liquid known as Dutch gin. Which has a cheesy odor and is sort of like cough �medicine consistency. I also developed a healthy respect for it. Anyhow, one of the things that concerned me about assuming this responsibility was that by the end of my previous naval work I had been assigned to Admiral Halsey's staff, ComCard1, he was commander of a carrier division then. I was only too aware of the fact that were 5 identified German raiders in the Pacific -- active. And the Dutch were belligerents. I expressed that reservation and Aldworth said well, I'll see what I can find out about it. Anyhow, we all convened aboard the ship and there had been a mad scramble the first one took the best cabin. I then and there decided that there would be some semblance of responsibility, rank and all the rest of it. So I reassigned all the rooms. This was not necessarily a good step, but a lot of people think that the American Volunteer Group was a bunch of rabble. We were very friendly, very American, but there is also an unspoken deference to responsibility. In other words, the squadron commander was the skipper and the fight leader was the flight leader and so on. The chief ordnance man he ran the ordnance effort and the same with chief radioman. This rank by responsibility prevailed. It took us just under a week to get to Hawaii. The only real critical decision to make was to close the bar. There was a faction that thought it ought to be open 24 hours a day every day. This wasn't producing good effects. One of the men, for example, he had his dinner, all his meals in his cabin, until he got to Hawaii because he came out of the Navy you know, my god, this is really traveling first class and we had these Indonesian stewards and they deferred to you and he was suddenly facing the life as he would love to live it. Anyhow, we got to Hawaii, running short on beer and we pulled into Honolulu overnight and I posted this sign by the gangway it said "Liberty expires at 0900". I maintained the presence on what the Navy would be to quarterdecks as the guys left and I kept hearing "I thought we had dropped all that", "what's all this liberty crap". So they all went ashore that wanted to go ashore and there weren't many people left on the ship and they had a good time on Waikiki and downtown Honolulu. We took a muster and discovered at 9 o'clock when we were to get underway that indeed �there were 3 former officers who weren't aboard. Captain Baugher asked me what to do and I said get underway. So the tug came and pushed us away from the pier. I noticed a commotion on the pier, taxi arriving at high speed, 3 figures got out and starting waving going down the channel. I put the long glass on them and there was a water taxi there and they hired the water taxi and took off after us. We had the pilot on board and we would normally would stop and drop him off at the pilot boat. They were gaining on us and I told Baugher to put on a couple more turns. Anyhow it made them really chase us down and they discovered what liberty [?] men. We stopped and we parked the pilot, we took them aboard and they were somewhat chasten [?]. That night a hard eyed guy came and introduced himself. Officer Naval Intelligence. I said well, I'm former Ensign Mott and I'm concerned about these German raiders, I know they are in the Pacific. He said (whispering) don't worry about it. I said what do you mean don't worry about them what do you know about them? Don't worry about it. So I proceeded to worry about them. Anyway we got underway and headed for Australia, Thursday Island. Northeast point. The next morning I made it a point always early in the morning to go up to the bridge with the captain and exchange a few words. He spoke very good English. Dutch are great linguists. There appeared over the horizon, two cruisers, I was able to pretty well recognize the class. I borrowed the long glass and put it one them and they were the Salt Lake City and the Northampton. They proceeded to take position on the bow off to one side and they sent us a blinker. The blinker said that this was the Salt Lake City and the Northampton and they requested permission to put a signal party aboard. So we heaved to and dropped a ladder and they sent two sailors over, signalmen and we had our signal party aboard. We could have signed up those sailors too if because it was a hell of a lot better living on a cruiser. Anyhow, we picked them up and those two cruisers escorted us all the way to Thursday Island which is the land fall. When I typed it, it is said don't worry he was right. The two cruisers went on then a paid a protocol visit to Australia. At Thursday Island another strange cruiser I couldn't �identify fell in with us and the skipper informed me that that was the Dutch cruiser Yaya? She had a very interesting arrangement of guns, later she was sunk when the Japs invaded Java. But she escorted us to Surabaya where we had no opportunity to go ashore which pleased me and we put into Singapore. At which point the skipper informed me that his orders were to debark us. Here I was you know with one ticket and 125 passengers from San Francisco to Rangoon. What do you mean you don't have orders to take us to Rangoon? Oh, he said, I've got a cargo of fish and it's spoiling. Finally I asked in the American Embassy and a representative came Commander De Wolf I think was his name, his son's in the Air Force, I've never met him at the time down at Langley. It took a day, but working the protocol he managed to get the ship ordered to take us to Rangoon. But we did have 2 nights of shore leave in Singapore and of course everybody went to the watering spots and stretched their legs. Then everybody was back aboard and we set sail for Rangoon and made the run up the Malayan Peninsula arriving at Port of Rangoon in the morning. We walked into the pier and there we were met by Boatner Carney. Chennault was up China and unable to come down. We all debarked there was a hell of a of hassle army's government authorities, British about the guns the guys had brought, almost everybody had a sidearm. That was strictly a no-no. The reason being of course the British policy in the colonies was that nobody carries guns except the British, armed organized units. Finally we worked that out and go ashore and we were buffed up to the Silver Grill for breakfast. There was considerable pent-up emotion, I can remember that Dr. Richards was writing an article and Dr. Richards was leaning out the car making like a siren, and a sundry [?] other horseplay. But we arrived and had breakfast and by that time the daily mail train was ready to leave so we went directly from there to the mail train and we were on our way up to Toungoo Airport. FRANK BORING: Reconstruct the difficulties of discipline on the ship. Difficulties in keeping this unit together? And any incidents that may have happened that stick out in your mind. �CHARLIE MOTT: One of the more gratifying things about that trip was the fact that it became clearly evident that we had very high type of individuals in general. There were trouble makers and the trouble generally originated amongst the drunks and this was never completely controlled. Normally aboard ship or aboard an air base you have your air police or our master alarms to take care of people like that we didn't have any and didn't need it. I never really felt that I lost control. At the same time we organized activities, bridge on Sunday. Hanks was a lot of help in this respect, Dr. Gentry, we had church services and non-denominational. One of the things that I introduced, it took a while to sink in, aboard ship when you had church services the smoking lamp was out, on cigarettes, no smoking, because the theory is the whole ship is at church. Well, that announcement was made immediately identified the troublemakers because they all lit up. With appropriate persuasion, talking to them, they became conformists. We had Chinese lessons - we had a group of Chinese, very highly educated, Dr. Tong was the leader of them, and we had Chinese lessons on the way over and we all those in the class learned some very useful expressions, like [?], which translated is “We are Americans, we come to Burma Road, to fight Japanese.” Actually “dom” means attack in Japanese. And a few other things that made your life more comfortable in a Chinese restaurant. And we had continuous bridge games going, continuous poker games. There were allegations in the poker community that certain people were cheating. So, just for the hell of it I appropriated on deck of cards one night. Took them into my cabin and put them under, I had a little eye loop, and they were marked not once but with five identifiable systems. There was a continuous poker game going on, craps was not a problem, didn't seem to be very popular. There were complaints that certain individuals were cheating at poker which I personally subscribed to so I confiscated a deck and looked at it under an eye loop and found out that not only one, but five identifiable systems of marking the cards, including shading, little dots, and crimps. They �are big boys and they can handle that themselves and spend their time out cheating each other so it didn't bother me. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Mott_Charlie_1991-05-16_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mott, Charles D. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-16 Title A name given to the resource Charlie Mott interview (video and transcript, 2 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Charles Mott by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Charles Mott was a Flight Leader for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." Recruited from the U.S. Navy, where he served three years as a Dive Bomber pilot, he joined the AVG in 1941. During a mission over Thailand, he was shot down by ground fire and captured, severely wounded. He was placed in a POW camp along the River Kwai railway for 3 1/2 years and repatriated at the end of the war. He was the sole survivor of the four AVG pilots captured. In this tape, Mott describes his experience as a Senior Naval officer and his journey from San Francisco to Rangoon to join the AVG overseas. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/847e587c74246ac25ab75c6e15b928a6.mp4 c2e92c83d60c1229900890f7f4e695fb https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/45f300b7308c56a499ae79d8a9f13701.pdf 1b7eb2ffb295d376c1cda106f114231f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Charles “Charlie” Mott Date of Interview: 05-16-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] CHARLIE MOTT: Backing up a little bit when we arrived in Rangoon the understanding was that Keller who was an senior Army Air Corps type take over however, it became apparent Keller had other ideas in fact he was one of the ones that left group early and so I just carried on until we got the guys aboard the train and up Toungoo. Now Toungoo was been written up as anywhere from a jungle camp to something just a cut above a Louisiana swamp. Actually the airfield wasn't all that bad. It was new, built by the British, as a strategic airfield, its name was Kyedaw airdrome. There were two kinds of buildings, permanent buildings there, teak was the lumber of choice. One group had galvanized iron roofs the other type had what they call in that area palm leaves. The palm leaves tended to leak, but were cool, the galvanized iron buildings, which includes [?] spaces, were dry but they got hot. So you had your choice, we had electric light it wasn't like the U.S. of A plumbing, the water that was used was pumped from a well with a cooling [?] that worked the handle. It went up to a tank - 30 or 40 feet and if somebody used too much water the tank got empty, that didn't bother the Navy type who were used to taking a Navy shower, you wet down, you soap up, you wash it off, but it sure in hell bothered some of the people. The food was quite indifference and we didn't have airplanes, there was too much time, too much booze, lousy food and grumbling. Shortly after we arrived Chennault arrived on the scene. He had been busy up there in China doing some �arranging for the group up in Kunming [?]. I had been appointed acting adjutant by virtue of my sterling performance abroad the ship. And so it was my duty as adjutant to greet him and I had set up a mass meeting in the general mess to give the Colonel a change to address the whole group. This was not a good scene. We had all these guys sitting around at a table, and, of course I proceeded Chennault and yelled "Attention" and about half of them stood up and the other half "what's this, grumble, grumble, I left the service to avoid this stuff you know.” So Chennault was right behind me and he observed this and I never heard him talk or speak as loudly as he did that time. He looked around at them and yelled "Attention" and they all stood up just like you know they all of a suddenly recognized their master's voice or something. So then anyhow Chennault made a little talk not a great deal, he was not a spell binder, he was not a great orator as a matter of fact you might classify him as rather quiet taciturn guy. But I enjoyed working for him for a period of about 6 weeks. The job of adjutant is a combination of administrative and personal officer in the Army. So you get all the problem areas. But it did permit me to get to know Chennault. And he was never the type that invited propinquity. He was the regular Army officer. Some of the letters he wrote which I screened which were very interesting. For example, in August 1, 1941 he sent back to the War Department the complete specifications of the zero. The performance of the zero came as a big surprise to the Army and the Navy. They didn't believe these things. They were the same specifications that he outlined in his lectures to us. For example, the thing could climb at 3200 feet a minute. Whereas, we could just barely make about 2200 - 2300. It had a radius of 1200 miles we could maybe if we were lucky make 400. It had 2 20 millimeter cannons plus 30 caliber. We had 2 50 calibers, 50.5 inches, which is smaller than 20 millimeters. The matter of turn rates and ceilings are not in the same list. We did have diving speed and something that we intuitively used, but didn't really know it at the time. High roll rate, in other words you could do this and pull and we were gone before the zero could react. I want to say something about the zero �because some people have raised the question. The AVG in fact did not meet the classic Navy zero [?]. What they did meet was the Army version retractable carriage KI43 Nakajima. Now this (I think 43 is the right number it may be wrong), but this airplane was a better dogfighter than the zero. It wasn't as big, it didn't have the range, but it was a better dogfighter. It was similar to the zero in the sense that warmer and it burned nicely. So we met certainly the equivalent or the superior in some respects. Another point has been brought out recently is that the Jap Army concentrated against us the cream of their forces. The forces that the Army Air Forces that had fought the Russians in Manchuria, the Chinese in China, the ones that had been in Philippine campaign and decimated the American forces there the ones that drove British completely out of the sky in Malaya and sank the repulse in the Hood. They weren't very active actually in the invasion of Indonesia, this was a Navy operation, but this was a superior airplane flown by experience and dedicated pilots. They were all brought in at one time or another, against the Allied forces in Burma. So this was no side show for us. FRANK BORING: Let's stop here. CHARLIE MOTT: I'd like at this time to talk about my personal feelings-- about my wife, and in a way, her feelings about me. We had been married, in fact I was married illegally by Navy terms. You were supposed to be bachelors for 2 years, but when I finished flight training we couldn't stand the idea of me being on the West Coast and her at home in Alabama. So we got married and proceeded to have a honeymoon by going out to California and reporting to the ship. I discovered that although there was a regulation on the books it didn't mean a great deal to the skipper, the squadron, or the exec. In fact, the exec try to rent me an apartment he knew about he thought it was just what I was looking for. But, anyhow, we were very close, very frank, and we had agreed this was indeed the thing to do. It did not prevent us from both having feelings of separation. And when I got back, and this was rather unique, I had a wife. �None of the other people who were prisoners of war had wives. They had former wife, but my wife was a very level-headed, family-oriented woman. She went back to her family, she had 4 sisters, no brothers, and got a job, actually with the Army and worked thru the war and salted it away so that when I came back we had the means to go ahead and resume our lives, buy a house, and all the rest of it. During the period, this is kind of jumping against, but it is consistent, continuity, during the period when I was a P.O.W., some 3 1/2 years, cause I was caught in January 8, 1942, she received 4 postcards which were permitted by the Japanese, and you put checks, in the check block you put " I am a prisoner of war" (check) " I am ill in hospital (check) Not in hospital (check) I am working for pay, not just working your ass off, you are working for pay. And then there was a 2 line place where you could put a little message. I put "please take care of bag ears". Which is sort of my teasing name for my wife and she knew it was then authentic because these things had to be printed they couldn't be longhand. But she was very faithful, she understood it is a matter of a short term sacrifice for a long term gains. Didn't follow that we didn't miss each other, we did, but the world revolves. FRANK BORING: Let's go back to… CHARLIE MOTT: Well, I don't think that this is particularly to the point. I mean if you love someone, she's your wife and you miss her and that's it. I mean some people do something else in that circumstance, but my own life went on and we waited for the reunion. One of the things I did later on in Rangoon I was able to make connections with one of the Indian jewelers and I bought her a magnificent star sapphire which got home. And also a white sapphire right out of the Buddha eye. And when I was shot down somebody pilfered this. Still looking for him. But anyhow, we are, were at Kyedaw airfield. The Colonel had arrived and we started a regime of keeping busy. He started his lectures, they were very effective. I mentioned that Chennault is not a spellbinder, he is not a great orator. Chennault �actually started out life as a schoolteacher in Louisiana before his commission in the Army in World War I. And he remained a teacher. And he had patience, patience for maybe dumb questions. He sized up students and just put his point across. He was a thinker, the tactics we worked out were unique to him and subsequently were used by both by the American Navy and the British. He took strong points of the zero and avoided them. He pitted the strong points of the P-40 against the weak points of the Zero or the [?] in this case, lack of armor, it really didn't have the fire power that we did. Because it didn't have 20 millimeter guns [?] 303. Strike, get out, climb back up, and come back in. Now there's a big question in everybody's mind, that is, if there is 2 airplanes up there and they are hostile, what happens? Pretty obviously you turn towards each other because if you try to run away, you present a tail. And what happens when it develops into a head on? The question is what happens tactically when a head on situation develops? Now there are a lot of stories about the Jap pilots that like to die for the Emperor and all the rest of it, but that wasn't true. No body like to die, despite the Kamikaze. I've read the book of the foremost living Kamikaze, they like life, too. In the case of the Japs they would turn. The normal turn of any aviators is to the left, that's because of torque in the engine. So when this situation developed it would not necessarily be direct head-on, but be some like a head-on why the Japs would not necessarily press on to destruction. We had some pretty determined guys, too. Our first casualty was Armstrong. Was killed in a dogfight. Now I mentioned the adjutant job, one of my other jobs was Operations Officer of the Second Squadron, which was Navy Squadron, (I'll tell you a story about that too), but as Operation Officer I made it a point to check out all the pilots in the dogfight and the P-40 had a bad reputation for inverted spin. You were up there and stall out and come down on your back. In fact I got in one one day and I decided to see what would happen if I let go and sure enough the big, heavy nose dropped and I got enough speed to roll out and fly away and reengage. But, anyhow, Armstrong and Gil Bright were up there one day and you develop a thing called scissors. Scissors �you go this way and turn and go back and forth until somebody managed to get an advantage and gets on the tail. But Armstrong thrust home the attack and he and Gil Bright actually collided. Gil Bright got out but Armstrong didn't and he was out first casualty He's buried in Rangoon. In the service inhibitions about dogfighting we had some too, but in the regular service if you scratched airplanes you were doing bad things. There were restrictions about what you could do. These were all waived. It wasn't that we were going to dogfight with the Japs it was just a matter of airplane handling. I recall one note in my diary I dogfought with Ed Rector, and Ed's pretty hot. He made me feel humble. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Mott_Charlie_1991-05-16_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mott, Charles D. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-16 Title A name given to the resource Charlie Mott interview (video and transcript, 3 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Charles Mott by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Charles Mott was a Flight Leader for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." Recruited from the U.S. Navy, where he served three years as a Dive Bomber pilot, he joined the AVG in 1941. During a mission over Thailand, he was shot down by ground fire and captured, severely wounded. He was placed in a POW camp along the River Kwai railway for 3 1/2 years and repatriated at the end of the war. He was the sole survivor of the four AVG pilots captured. In this tape, Mott discusses his first impression of the airfield in Toungoo and General Chennault's arrival, in addition to the backstory of his marriage with his wife. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b04fea689d71e41a638aba6148b533be.mp4 8e05e25f7d52f8382716c7487d6e45b2 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bec2618ad87c2827f216b7a7203f8179.pdf fe1291a975f74c51d33e173a13a86426 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Charles “Charlie” Mott Date of Interview: 05-16-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] FRANK BORING: We are trying to get across the whole difficulty and danger about the whole training part which we never really got. So that's really what we're looking for. CHARLIE MOTT: Relative to Armstrong's crash I received a compliant actually within the week before that that the Army was pressing it too hard. It was all right to be realistic but not too realistic and he was just the guy, I'd seen it before his target fascination I've picked up squadron mates actually died bombing they flew right in to the target. So it can happen and it happened in the case of Armstrong. But getting back, I'm talking really here my own personal views of the P-40, I'm also talking as Operations Officer of the 2nd Squadron. But here is an interesting story here relative to the formation of the squadrons. Now how is it for example that the 2nd Squadron was almost all Navy pilots? It wasn't accidental. What happened was upon the arrival Chennault and I had a talk and Chennault wanted experienced fighter pilots, I was a dive bomber pilot. And he asked me for nominations for squadron commanders. He said, Charlie you are going to get the bombing squadron when it arrives and even then he told me second AVG and the first AVG was not the end of it. I said, "Well, Colonel why don't I nominated and you select and then select the personnel from the squadron including the enlisted men. We don't we do it the good old American way, we throw up a bat and grab it and the last guy �holding on to it gets the first choice. Yeah, sounds good. And so I nominated Olson, Jack Newkirk, who had fighter experience, and Sandell, who certainly looked and talked like he had experience and Chennault went along with it. We then tossed up and selected one for you, one for me, eeny, meeny, miny, mo. That's now the squadrons were formed. And that's why the 2nd Squadron with very few exception, was Navy people. We used port and starboard, flat hatted and all the other good Navy stuff. Actually I think we were free of a lot interpersonal problems that the other Squadrons had because we had been aboard ship where you lived together, eat together and you don't whistle down blowing, and tear down the gate in the convertible. So we had a very compatible bunch. Really no problems, disciplinary problems, except for the radiomen. That's a long story. But even they, Mickey Mihalko was one our radiomen off the ship and Mickey was real pain until the balloon went up and then Mickey became a hero. Just idle you know. On the average in the pilot category we had in the 2nd Squadron a well-qualified group. Almost all of them had one, two, sometimes three years aboard a carrier. If you screw around on a carrier on a dark night without the benefit of electronics aids a P40 in daylight is a cup of tea, no problem. There were the big airplane guys, the bomber types, the Army bomber types, and the Navy patrol types and these guys were a real hazard. But there weren't too many of these. FRANK BORING: Why do you say that these guys were a hazard? CHARLIE MOTT: Well, we just washed out airplanes. FRANK BORING: Give us a background. CHARLIE MOTT: They landed, these people, that had experience in large airplanes, they landed different, they handled the airplane different in almost every respect and so they had to make a very distinct transition, particularly in the landing, because a big airplane you don't come in in a carrier approach, you come in greased it all and about that �time you run out of runway you land 15 to 20 feet in the air and drop it in. The P-40 landing gear incidentally wasn't too bad. I got a little sporty at Rangoon one day and I was just dragging around and I forgot I hadn't burned up much fuel and she stalled on me about 40 feet in the air and I said oop here we go and leveled off and pulled up sharply and boom and it was like somebody dropping a dumpster, but it took it. One individual in particular, Ricketts, he washed out 3 airplanes. We were having a lot of trouble in spare parts. It seemed that anything that happened to the P-40 got the propeller. Next it got the landing gear, then the wing if you ground it. At this point, it might be interesting to you to talk in terms of logistics support of this operation. I mention earlier that there were no regular officers assigned. Chennault had to live off the land and that's where he picked up Carney and Greenlaw. Chennault was not permitted to recruit regular officers and this is why he picked up people like Greenlaw and Carney. Williams was a competent staff officer who came in in Communications and he did a lot for us. In the supply area, why I met this odd character with a Harvard accent, of course I graduated from Penn, so it wasn't all the strange to me. His name was Joe Alsop. Before the war he and his brother Stewart had been leading columnist here in Washington. They wrote Washington Merry Go Round., naturally syndicated. What people I think don't appreciate is that that Joe and his brother were very patriotic guys. I took a couple of long walks with Joe and most of group thought he was kind of strange, he had a big nose, intellectual, and spoke with this accent. Chennault made him supply officer. Now he was actually a reserve officer in the Navy in India. He was a paymaster. He somehow heard about the group, he actually was a cousin of the President. Kissing cousin or what degree. He was definitely well connected. Joe got himself transferred to Chennault and became supply officer. He did some good work with the Philippines, he got some tires flown out on Pan Am. We were always running out of things like solenoids for the gun. Radios were chronic repair problem. Props and tires were really short. When the Japs attacked on the 7th of December. They attacked Wake and the Pan Am clipper was �loaded with tires for us and it turned around and went back the other way. Now Joe himself was attempting to get back from Manilla to the group and he flew to Hong Kong and was going to get CNAC to take him to Kunming. CNAC was operating out of Hong Kong at night they'd take off you know. He was captured when Hong Kong fell which was shortly after Christmas as I recall. And so he was in the bag. Joe Alsop was very persuasive and somehow he worked it so he came back to the States first class not as a POW, but as a repatriated diplomat. It was systematic of the kind of help that Chennault recruited. Along these lines, and here I'm jumping back, I had almost 4 years. When I got out it was in Calcutta there was a lot of Army criticisms of Chennault. He had been relieved a few years earlier, before the war ended. The unspoken charge was that he was a poor logistician. Well, if you define logistics as getting along with very little supply he was a genius. Chennault made me group engineering officer and I went up before the group went to Kunming and looked into Chinese facilities for support of the group. The oxygen compressors, for example, they looked like an old volunteer fire company thing that you pump it, you know with one on each handle and blew up… it took about 2 hours hard pumping to blow up one bottle, 1830 lbs. I went to the prop shop, prop shop was in a former temple out in the boonies away from the field manned by, you know there is a type of Chinese that is big, robust, big heads and their hair seems to stick out at right angles, Mongols. A lot of Mongols there and they were in charge of the props shop and they demonstrated how to repair the prop. The way they repaired a prop, they took the blades off it and looked at it and if it was bent the wrong way they hit it with a big wooden hammer and if there was a hole in it they filled it with magic gunk and give it a coat of paint, no dynamic balance just run it down a knife edge or a mandril and another good prop and that was it. I also got involved in the gun sight problem. Now these P-40B were actually given to the Chinese via Lend Lease by the British, the British excepted trade for later models. They were not completed either in radio or gun sights. They were designed actually for British gun sights which was not furnished. Somebody �didn't understand the problem completely sent us the sight which went down below, but there was not reflecting glass, no [?] glass. So the job was to somehow rig it up so that we had an effective optical sight, which means a lot in aerial combat. Actually this was the one time that I disagreed with Chennault. He didn't think we needed it. He was an old [?] post guy you know and that's all right for crude work you know. Get behind them and hose them down, but not for accurate shooting. I discovered if I took the armor plate put it a light film of oil on it I could get rid of a double reflection off the front and rear glass and so Chennault authorized me to go to Rangoon to see if I could find something permanent besides oil film. I took him out and there was a telephone wire running by the headquarters there and showed him how to get rid of the double reflection that you take a little film of oil and then you can only see one wire, which surprised him. The idea was to use the armor plate, the glass armor plate, as the reflecting [?] sight. But I couldn't find any substance that was available in Rangoon that would do this. So I had to come up with making a reflector sight. I want to talk about the gun sight problem. The proper gun sight, effective gun sight in those days, was an optical reflecting sight, where the image of a receptacle, the ring, pipper [?], was projected up on a called a combinating [?] glass you look through it and you see the target and you see your receptacle. This is also used to determine that you are within firing range, circles are generated such that the airplane you want will fill a particular ring when you are looking at. You know that you are within firing range. Because it is very easy in aerial gun to open fire too early and there is a limited amount of ammunition you carry. Now this is one of the few cases where I disagreed with Chennault. Chennault thought we didn't need optical gun sight that the old ring and bead and there's another here you can see in the pictures of the P-40 a ring, a couple of rings, you look thru there and you hose them down. Well, this is all right in World War I stuff but it does not give you the accuracy you needed in combat in those days. So the idea was we had to find some way of finding a combining glass up on the windshield such that we had an optical sight. At first I thought we could take �one of the double images off the armor glass up there. You get a reflection both from the back and the front so you see two rings if you try to project against it. I found with plain lubricating oil you can get rid of one of them and I convinced Chennault I had a good idea by taking them out, taking one of the armor glass and showing him, look it there, see that telephone wire, you see two telephone wires, yeah, now magic, now how many do you see? One. Went down to Rangoon to see if I could find some magic substance that could do that that will last. So I went down to Rangoon and I found that there wasn't any such substance. I tried a number of things. So were constraint to take a sight which in essence would not work, but could be adapted. I made up a combining glass with a couple of brackets which I had locally manufactured and we could put these in a couple of brackets and we could tap into these just right. So the problem was solved that we had a reflecting sight, but the trouble was the rings were wrong. We wanted a sight which would tell us we were within a 1,000 feet which was our bore sight distance on our guns they were converging at a 1,000 feet and we were within range, it was a very easy way to use up all your ammunition firing too far out in aerial gunnery. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Mott_Charlie_1991-05-16_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mott, Charles D. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-05-16 Title A name given to the resource Charlie Mott interview (video and transcript, 4 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Charles Mott by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Charles Mott was a Flight Leader for the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears." Recruited from the U.S. Navy, where he served three years as a Dive Bomber pilot, he joined the AVG in 1941. During a mission over Thailand, he was shot down by ground fire and captured, severely wounded. He was placed in a POW camp along the River Kwai railway for 3 1/2 years and repatriated at the end of the war. He was the sole survivor of the four AVG pilots captured. In this tape, Mott discusses the difficulties the AVG experienced during their training period and the formation of squadrons. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng