71 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b05c4896e537349aaf3593b12fbe1d5e.jpg 3d439bbe67c7c58ff5344b4aa66624b4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_LS00191 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource circa 1930 Title A name given to the resource Baton from Santander stag horn carving Description An account of the resource Black and white lantern slide of a sketch of the Stag-horn Baton Paleolithic carvings from El Pendo Cave, Santander. Subject The topic of the resource Lantern slides Drawings Cave paintings Archaeology Santander (Spain) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d5ca2c7b03a42cbca3f01278ed2de8f1.jpg 47d581d11d8dd5c87839401bc84c215b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BatiDennisKeith_Photo01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Batt, Dennis Keith Description An account of the resource Dennis Keith Batt, Housing Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College administrators Universities and colleges – Faculty Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f6a4f0639297b6936793636e59b029f2.jpg c6c875cdc4dbf9a7fe1e6797ff7a71d9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource F. C. Angus collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Angus, Donald James (D. J.) Description An account of the resource Photographs of Sergeant F.C. Angus, Battery A 328th Field Artillery, American Express Forces, by D. J. Angus. The 328th Field Artillery was one of the last horse drawn Filed Artilleries in combat. The correspondence between Angus, his brother D.J. and his parents took place while he was stationed at Camp Custer, MI, multiple camps in France and Fort Mills, NY during World War I. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War I Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1917/1918 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/437">D.J. Angus photographs and films (RHC-04)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a> Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1914-1918 United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Soldiers Military life United States. Army. Fort Custer (Mich.) Camp Custer (Mich.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-60 Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-60_FCA_02 Title A name given to the resource Battery A 328th field artillery at base hospital Camp Custer Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1914-1918 United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Soldiers Military life United States. Army. Field Artillery Regiment, 328th United States. Army. Fort Custer (Mich.) Camp Custer (Mich.) Photographs Description An account of the resource Battery A 328th field artillery practicing at base hospital Camp Custer, Michigan, 1918. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Angus, Donald James (D. J.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1918 Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived D.J. Angus photographs, RHC-04 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War I Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5e780faa023f9601fa1b4de09e234c05.jpg c0a4db83242ea9ea68c61c64b8d44257 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource F. C. Angus collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Angus, Donald James (D. J.) Description An account of the resource Photographs of Sergeant F.C. Angus, Battery A 328th Field Artillery, American Express Forces, by D. J. Angus. The 328th Field Artillery was one of the last horse drawn Filed Artilleries in combat. The correspondence between Angus, his brother D.J. and his parents took place while he was stationed at Camp Custer, MI, multiple camps in France and Fort Mills, NY during World War I. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War I Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1917/1918 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/437">D.J. Angus photographs and films (RHC-04)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/NoC-US/1.0/">No Copyright - United States</a> Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1914-1918 United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Soldiers Military life United States. Army. Fort Custer (Mich.) Camp Custer (Mich.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-60 Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-60_FCA_08_Postcard Title A name given to the resource Battery A 328th field artillery at base hospital Camp Custer Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1914-1918 United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Soldiers Military life United States. Army. Field Artillery Regiment, 328th United States. Army. Fort Custer (Mich.) Camp Custer (Mich.) Photographs Description An account of the resource Battery A 328th field artillery practicing at base hospital Camp Custer, Michigan, 1918. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Angus, Donald James (D. J.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1918 Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived D.J. Angus photographs, RHC-04 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War I Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8f2ba2b0c4518ca48b51f9c695e053a5.jpg 732dd6dbe1e10906ff9563b929c8b954 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_1306 Title A name given to the resource Battle British destroyer Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource Battle British DD (destroyer), October 1, 1947. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Slides Great Britain Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1947-10-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2718a8d4bce9f38492cf6075e2230ccf.jpg 84aeb3a81a5cc0954c245cfaac7caeb8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_1307 Title A name given to the resource Battle British destroyer Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource Battle British DD (destroyer), October 1, 1947. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Slides Great Britain Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1947-10-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/782c27b6d07f45d26d4f15bd1e8f497c.jpg f6969fe91d3e664a36a400e2ed877fd9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_1308 Title A name given to the resource Battle British destroyer Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource Battle British DD (destroyer), October 1, 1947. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Slides Great Britain Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1947-10-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7b823b43b421103c5347aedcb2487e8f.jpg e712be0132a427cdbd14fe591893d3f5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_1309 Title A name given to the resource Battle British destroyer Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource Battle British DD (destroyer), April 1, 1953. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Slides Great Britain Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1953-04-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ce94f7cb115a162504d6d26c94419e82.jpg e643a078c786fe759dc60c38c9e00ece Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_1310 Title A name given to the resource Battle British destroyer Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource Battle British DD (destroyer), April 1, 1953. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy Military education Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Slides Great Britain Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1953-04-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2781555aadf18f7ab2dd24bc1bd09cac.jpg a5df2dba71c61c1f443d11e6aeeea2c7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Naval Recognition Training Slides Subject The topic of the resource Slides Military education Airplanes, Military--Recognition Warships--Recognition World War, 1939-1945 Description An account of the resource Slides developed during World War II as a training tool, for top-side battle-station personnel on board ship and for all aircraft personnel, by the US Navy. In 1942 a Recognition School was established by the Navy at Ohio State University where the method of identification was developed. In 1943 the school was taken over by the US Navy. The importance of training in visual recognition of ships and aircraft became even more evident during World War II. Mistakes resulting in costly errors and loss of life led to an increased emphasis on recognition as a vital skill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides (RHC-50)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1943-1953 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/477">Naval recognition slides, RHC-50</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-50_M1414 Title A name given to the resource Battler class escort carrier Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource United States. Navy Description An account of the resource Battler class, British-CVE (escort carrier), November 1, 1943. Subject The topic of the resource United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945 Great Britain Military education Slides Warships--Recognition Slides Great Britain Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Naval recognition slides (RHC-50) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1943-11-01 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ff4d144ef2422d4ea9de419f303f2ad1.jpg e34ab3ef040db2f1c9f97533c78edc87 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_NE_58_1924_010 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1924-06 Title A name given to the resource Battleships Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of three ships at sea taken from on a boat. Subject The topic of the resource Boats Battleships Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/411c6b61a8a5c2a87fe3e0dc455df1e1.jpg 04d823ebcf635eeca3eaa775c808169c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BattsJack_June2003 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Batts, Jack Description An account of the resource Jack Batts, University Foundation Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College administrators Universities and colleges – Faculty Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f44c169a72c1a815dadb3525a24837af.jpg 9b220709fd4f87fc5db257eb046a56e9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BaumEdward Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Baum, Edward Description An account of the resource Edward Baum, Chemistry Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/85ab58829ab90e73fcbc73e3e730e606.jpg 013f67609ce620f56a4c18bd95f1fa26 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BaumJefferson Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Baum, Jefferson Description An account of the resource Jefferson Baum, Dance Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/df6897466cf176f31afbeb6516d308d7.jpg 14fa199456006216d2994cc6ad47883e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BaumNancy Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Baum, Nancy Description An account of the resource Nancy Baum, Dance Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/46657bf8e5c5ccf5447ee363c543d424.jpg 6816fc9ee2adb0b5a197b65feb6a3fc6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BaumWilliam Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Baum, William Description An account of the resource William Baum, Political Science Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/923a97c8f6b14e504a3f822c5ab6b95c.mp4 5c8ac7daae642d3d6af14cf6d7d848bc https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ab7c1952df42c1c84c9fa3256b50aaf1.pdf 9e53a7e65c64a634987e94e05ea2af3c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II Interviewee’s Name: Gerard Bauma Length of Interview: (01:16:17) Interviewed by: James Smither Transcribed by: Chelsea Chandler Interviewer: “Now, Mr. Bauma, can you begin by giving us some background on yourself? To start with, where and when were you born?” Of course, that is hearsay. I was there, but I was not aware of it when I was born. I was born in the city of Zwolle in the Netherlands, and I was the youngest of four. Interviewer: “And what year were you born?” I was born March 24, ‘22, and I had two brothers and one sister. They all were married, had children, and we are the only surviving ones of our siblings. (1:00) We—My dad was a preacher—a well-known preacher—in the old country. He—There was no room in the seminary, or else he would have, no doubt, been a seminary professor. He had an honest-to-goodness doctor’s degree. Like today all kinds of people walk around and call themselves “doctor”. Interviewer: “Yeah. Even I get to do that.” You do? Interviewer: “Yes.” Well, like I said before, a lot of sins will be forgiven. And all my siblings, like I said, have passed away, and we are the only survivors. In 1927, I think, or ‘29—I don’t know. (2:01), that’s long ago, we moved to the city of The Hague, which—You know, no doubt, that Amsterdam is the capital, but The Hague—some forty, fifty miles away—is the seat of government. And that’s where the embassies are for countries, so that’s kind of the ruling heart of the Netherlands. It’s a beautiful city. We’ve been back there a number of times, and I’d like to go back once again. But my wife won’t let me. Neither will my children because they feel that at my age—close to ninety—it’s a bit too risky to do that. It’s—The Hague is situated on the North Sea. There’s a separate—used to be separate place, ‘S-Gravenhage, but like I said before, just as you—Just as I cannot pronounce a “th”, you cannot pronounce the guttural G. Gravenhage. So they pick us up right away that we have an accent, which is fine. A lot of people walk around with an accent. After all, all of the United States and Canada is the result of immigration from I don’t know how many different countries. Interviewer: “So did you grow up in The Hague then? Did that—” �My high school was in The Hague, and my dad died when he was sixty-five also in The Hague. In the meantime, I was in seminary, and it was a bit difficult, of course, because of the German occupation. (4:07) Interviewer: “Okay. Can we—I want to actually back up a little bit and talk more about what life was like in the Netherlands sort of in the 30s in the period when you were growing up before the Germans got there.” It was the Depression time, of course. A lot of people out of work, and I still see them shoveling snow with a piece of 2x4 and a plank attached to the bottom. And there they went across the street shoveling snow. We also realized that every time after—at the beginning of the new year, my dad would come home with the news that his income would go down because the money just wasn’t there. And I went to school—two different Christian schools—and later on to high school, and that was also during the war. At the beginning of the war. And that was a strange experience. A while ago, I had a speech here. They asked me to do so. To speak about life under occupation, which is a—I hope I’ll never see a time like this again. I hope nobody ever will. When all of a sudden, uninvited, Nazis came across the border—I want to make a distinction between Nazis and Germans—and then they just laid down the rule. Whatever you could do, whatever you could not do. And for five years there was resistance—underground—because if you—You couldn’t do it aboveground, of course, because of who’d be the end of it. (6:09) There are people also here who were more active because of age. More active in the resistance than I was. I did it in my way. It was—Yeah, again, unorganized because if you’d have an organization, it would be taken away to concentration camps. As a matter of fact, I spent four days in a concentration camp. I was picked up in the train on my way to the seminary town—I always have to make very clear that I talk about seminary instead of cemetery—and they picked me up. The Gestapo did. The Gestapo is the secret German police—Geheime Staatspolizei—and I told them that I was a seminarian and as such—And as some strange thing in the German—in the Nazi mind that seminarians were free from having to go to Germany because everyone eighteen years or older had to go to Germany to work as a slave laborer and work in German factories. IG Farben, which is a very well-known German company, employed a lot of those folks, and they were not treated the best. And one time, in the city of Rotterdam, there was a razzia. You know what a razzia is? Interviewer: “Can you explain that?” A razzia means that the police just stops everybody on the street and pick them up. Never mind who. (8:09) There you go. But I was let go after four days, again, because I was a seminary student. There was somebody with me who notified the seminary that I was in trouble, and, again, after four days, they let me go. And then—Before the war, it was a quiet country. Peaceloving. We had an army, and when the Germans invaded, the Dutch Army had to surrender in four days—five days because they had bombed the heart out of Rotterdam. That’s the largest harbor in—maybe in the world. I don’t know. They just bombed the center of town, and Margaret lived in Rotterdam at the time. Interviewer: “That was the queen?” �Pardon? Interviewer: “The queen?” No. Margaret. That’s my wife. Interviewer: “Oh, your wife. Okay. That’s right. The queen was Juliana or something [Wilhelmina].” And the queen escaped just in time and the government. The ministers, so the government. They somehow were able to cross the North Sea to go to England, and from there the royal family moved to Ottawa, Canada. The queen—It is said that Queen Wilhelmina, who was queen in the Netherlands in those days, was called by Churchill as the only man on the Dutch—on the European throne because she is quite a gal. (10:02) There is a statue of her in the city of The Hague, and here she is. Like I said, before the war, it was a peace-loving country. Interviewer: “Now yourself. You were still in…” I was in The Hague. Interviewer: “Yeah, and you were still in high school in 1939 when the European war started. Now at the time that happened—when the Germans attacked Poland and so forth— were you aware of what was happening? Did you pay attention to the news in those days?” Oh, yeah. We knew about first what Hitler called the Anschluss—that they annexed Austria— and then slowly on they went to Scandinavia. Denmark, Norway. Not Sweden. Sweden remained neutral all these years, and then, at a given moment, Hitler says, “Now all my territorial demands have been met,” which was not the case because whatever Hitler said you could never trust, of course. And it was interesting. We had a history teacher. The man was an excellent historian. He had one fault. He couldn’t keep order. We called him Bald Joe, but after Hitler had spoken in Nuremberg, Germany where he addressed a crowd—“Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil!” Then we asked our history teacher, “Would you please give us your view on this?” Which he didn’t. Then we were like little mice in his hands because this man knew his history. (12:00) And he told us one sentence I never forgot in my life. He said, “When you look at a map of the world, especially Europe, and you say to yourself, ‘Yeah, we grew up between the two wars.’ Then you say to yourself, ‘Well, this is the way it’s going to stay forever.’” And he said, “Don’t kid yourself. These borders are going to change,” and did they ever change. We—I don’t think that we really expected the Germans to invade the Netherlands. You know, they didn’t in the first war. They left us alone, but—And I—Somewhere—I should have picked it up. Somewhere I have a map of the Netherlands. You—I don’t know if you happen to be—know the map that well, but the Netherlands has one thing that looks like the trunk of an elephant that goes down between Germany and Belgium. And that’s a rather narrow gap between the most southern city in the Netherlands and then Belgium and France. So in the first war they invaded Belgium but not the Netherlands, but in the second war they wanted a broader front. As a matter of fact, in the 1880s—I think it was the 1880s—there was the German chief of staff. Von— �Interviewer: “Von Schlieffen.” Yep. He already suggested that the Netherlands also be invaded during the first war in order to create a wider front, but Hitler decided to—just to ignore. (14:09) And he went also through Holland. One of the strangest experiences. I woke up May 10, 1940 at four o’clock in the morning. That plane—A German transport plane flew over and was on fire, was hit by Dutch artillery, and it crashed behind our house maybe a distance from here to—not even to 44th Street. And, of course, I was eighteen. Yeah, kind of nosy. So the plane crashed, and the twenty paratroopers in it were killed because they were bent on capturing the Dutch government and the royal family. But both of them failed, and I went over to the place where a plane crashed and picked up—of course, there was no jet planes yet—a three blade propeller. I picked up one of these blades. It was broken off, and for the life of me I wish I would know where it is right now because I kept it as a souvenir. And there’s a possibility that it’s still stuck under the house where we lived in the city of The Hague, but I’m not quite sure. But it would have been a good trophy. No, we did not expect—I don’t think we expected it, and—But they came anyways. (16:02) And, you know, we had heard of—It’s a biblical expression: “of wars and rumors of wars.” Austria, Scandinavia. It was, I think, in March. Interviewer: “In April. April. Yeah.” April. Yeah, and then the Norwegians sank a heavy German cruiser close to Oslo, and—But we still—I don’t think we still—I don’t think we expected it. But it was a [?]. You talk about war, and when you’re that age, there’s something romantic about war. I found out there’s nothing romantic about it, and then the first—One of the first things I saw was a truck of a dairy—a flatbed—and went north to—The Hague was surrounded by a couple of very small airport, and that truck was on its way to one of these airports. Because then I realized war means coffins. And war means death, and war means coffins. That was a real—Yes, in a way, a surprise for me. Interviewer: “Yeah. Was the truck carrying coffins?” Yeah, the truck was carrying coffins, and it went north to one of these airfields, which the Germans wanted to capture. They were not able to. They were defeated there, and after the war, I went south to Rotterdam, not knowing that my wife was living there at the time. (18:11) And so that was not the reason I went to Rotterdam, but the heart was bombed out of Rotterdam. It was still smoking and smoldering. Terrible stench because Rotterdam is a harbor, so in these warehouses, they had all kinds of stuff that was, yeah, ready for loading and unloading. My— Margaret’s father was in business in grain import and export, and he dealt a lot with that kind of stuff. Shipping in from United States, Canada, and all over the world and then transferring it to barges that would go to Germany and France and I don’t know where all. Interviewer: “Okay, so you actually went to Rotterdam shortly after the Dutch surrendered then?” Right. �Interviewer: “So you can see some of what the city was like at that point. What were the— Do you remember the first time you saw German soldiers actually coming in and taking over?” Yep. They—We lived just one block away from a main artery, and they rode in the trucks there. And they had their goosesteps. You know how they do that? And it was, in a sense, a terrifying thing to see that, especially since we were a peace-loving country. (20:06) The artillery dated back maybe to before the first war. I don’t know, and then slowly on—Then they had the like— In The Hague, the seat of the government, there is what they call the Hall of Knights that dates back, I think, to 13—1400. And then, once a year, the queen comes with a golden—in a golden carriage drawn by eight horses and all kinds of coaches following with the ministers, and I don’t know who all was in there. And then she had a speech on the throne, which, of course, just like the [?] was written by the government, not by her, but then she always talked about my government, which is correct. And then just after the war was over, then the Germans appointed a man by the name of Seyss-Inquart. He was from Austria, and he limped. So, within no time, the Dutch had a new name for him—Six and a Quart—referring to his limping. And then, on the queen’s birthday—No, on the birthday of her son-in-law, Prince Bernhard, who was a German— But on his birthday, people walked around with a flower in the lapel because he always wore a flower in his lapel, and then Dutch sympathizers wanted to pull it out. (22:29) But they also put some razor blades next to it, so they detected very soon that you better be very careful. But when Seyss-Inquart sat on the throne where the queen always sat during the opening of parliament— totally insensitive, of course—But then right away the Germans put down the law, and one of my impressions is that there was an absolute lack of all kinds of justice. The German sympathizers— Did you ever hear the word “Quisling”? In Norway, he was the Dutch—the Norwegian traitor, and Quisling has become synonymous with traitor. If you are a Quisling, that is not so good, and he behaved like royalty. And then very soon already ration cards came in because Holland has a large—not such a large area and several million people. I think eight million, but don’t quote me on this. (24:00) Six or eight million. Something is in the back of my mind. Maybe six million people and not enough farmland to maintain and to feed that country, so there had to be rationing. And when we came here, people complained about it that during the war, sugar was getting rationed, I think, and gasoline and tires, and then I always kind of smile because for the rest there was enough. And there was freedom. You could say openly, “I don’t agree with FDR,” or whatever else, and no one would say anything about it. The British had a Dutch radio broadcast. Radio Oranje they called it. You know, orange is the Dutch national color because the royal family is the House of Orange, and on the birthday of the queen, everyone walks around with some orange in his lapel or kids with a—kind of a shawl around them. But you couldn’t do that, of course, during the war, and—But, as I said, the worst remembrance I have is a total lack of any kind of justice. They could pick you up on the street like they did me because I was supposed to work as a slave laborer in Germany. Interviewer: “Now how soon did they start to move people out of the Netherlands as slave laborers? Was that later in the war, or were they—” No, that was a bit later, not immediately. (26:04) No, I think they first may have tried some appeasement. After all, we’re all Germanic. Dutch is a Germanic language, and I think they tried appeasement. But very soon they found out that it didn’t work, and slowly on the resistance �began. And there was a preacher who had to—what we called—He had to dive. He had to go underwater—had to disappear—and he went from pulpit to pulpit always unannounced because that would be too dangerous to announce it. And then he basically had the same sermon that resistance was required, but then he had to go again right away. I remember in the city of Arnhem there was a minister by the name of Jacobus Overduin, and he was minister in Arnhem. You know, remember Arnhem: A Bridge Too Far? And he preached—Oh, yeah, the Germans wanted to appoint a German sympathizer as supervisor of the Christian schools in Arnhem. And he preached against it, and at the dinner table he left. And the Germans came in a bit after he had left, and he went underwater. (28:01) You know, one of these expressions that are coined in those days, and he—Every now and then he would appear here and there, and I think—but no, I don’t want to tell this as gospel truth—that his wife expected a baby. And they also know the story of birds and the bees, and they discovered that he had been home. But then he was gone again, and then finally they—Yeah, he went to Dachau. They picked him up somewhere, and he went to the concentration camp in Dachau. You heard of Dachau? One of the infamous German concentration camps. We were there. And I think it was two or three years ago, and then at the gate in wrought iron in a semicircle it says, “Labor—Arbeit—” Interviewer: “‘Arbeit macht frei.’ Yeah.” “Macht frei”. And, of course, that is as ludicrous as it can—as can be, and what they have done to Dachau now is they razed all the barracks. And then after—That was after the war, and then they built a brand new one the way it was at the beginning. And that’s—They sanitized the whole business. The execution place is still there and with the three crosses, and—Now maybe I’m not very organized in all that I say because things are popping up. (30:03) Interviewer: “That’s okay. All right. Now did the Dutch minister survive Dachau, or did he die there?” He survived, and he wrote a book under the title Hell and Heaven in Dachau where he pointed out the typical—For the Nazis. Not Germans, but the Nazis. And it’s a different breed. The inconsistency of Nazism. Like sometimes they had to clean the sidewalk with a toothbrush. I think that book has been translated into English, but I’m not certain. But something in the back of my mind—It has been translated, but the title escapes me. Interviewer: “All right. Well, I mean, that’s sort of a side issue as far as your story goes, so we’re primarily interested in recording kind of what you witnessed and experienced.” Yeah. Well, what we—what I witnessed at four o’clock, May 10, 1940—The German plane was flying overhead, and they tried to surround the city of The Hague with paratroopers. But they— Their main purpose failed, and, yeah, then slowly on they kind of tightened the screws. Newspapers had to be restricted in what they could print. Magazines were censored. (32:03) Again, lack of freedom and the lack of justice. If you ride a bike on the street and somebody wanted it—“The bike is mine.” And when I went to Rotterdam on my bike, which is maybe twenty miles, and I saw that city smoldering—Terrible stench. And now they put a statue there of a man with his arms up. Had been made by a man by the name of Zadkine. Z-D—I think it was Polish. And he has a great, big hole in his body, and the Germans—Excuse me. The Dutch �very soon called it John Asshole. Not a very polite word, but that’s—I mean, that’s the reality. They nicknamed it. Yeah, ask me some questions. Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now your seminary remained open. You were able to continue to go to school for a while?” I was in high school yet, and in ‘42, I graduated from high school and went to seminary close to the city where I was born. And then there was—We—They sent us home again in ‘42. In ’43. January ‘43. (34:03) They closed the seminary because it was too tempting for the Germans just to go there and pick up a couple of carloads of young men because everyone over eighteen had to go to Germany. And did I say this already? That—Oh, yeah, I mentioned the word “razzia”. In Rotterdam and in The Hague, too, where I lived, they just stopped everybody on the street. And yeah, I’m a seminarian. Never mind even if you’re a cousin to Hitler, you still have to go to Germany, and one of my high school classmates went to Germany. And he never returned. He was killed in an air raid. Interviewer: “Okay. Now, even though your seminary was closed, you still had the status of a seminarian? You had a different thing marked on your identification papers, or…?” Yeah, I had—Yeah, I had a piece of paper that I was a seminarian. Interviewer: “So what did you do after the seminary closed?” Stuff that my folks didn’t know and shouldn’t know because no one talked about what happened and what you did. That was also, yeah, a code of ethics. You just didn’t talk about it. Like I had a little crystal set—and don’t ask me how it works—but I could listen to the British radio, and the Germans work in the same frequency as the British radio. And it went, “Woo, woo.” They interrupted it so that—That was a very loud one, so you had to be very careful listening to it because everyone out on the street could hear it. (36:10) And it was a sign of extreme weakness that you may not listen to what the other one has to say. Extreme weakness. Yeah, what else? Interviewer: “Okay. Well, did you get involved at all with the resistance, or did you know people who were in it?” I was in it. Yeah, I listened to the British radio and then wrote bulletins and send them to a friend of mine and gave them to a friend of mine who was a law student, and he worked—of all things—at the Peace Palace. By the way, in 1913, the Peace Palace in The Hague—Beautiful building, enormous grounds, very well-kept. And the Peace Palace was opened in 1913, and a practical joker in August ‘14 attached a sign to the gate. The sign said, “For rent,” when the first war broke out. “For rent.” And so I went to the Peace Palace, and we exchanged ideas there. And that some of them are later put into print, but, again, do you know any Latin? Interviewer: “A little.” And—“Nomina sunt odiosa.” Names are not to be mentioned. That was a principle of resistance, and one day we were at home. (38:10) And my—Somehow my dad got a hold of one of these �printed pages. I don’t know how he got a hold of it, and my dad was a smart man. Well, he said—Then I told him. I said, “Hey, it’s seems to be good on the Russian front.” “How do you know?” he said. I said, “Look. What is—” Because then I pointed at my dad. I said, “Look what this bulletin has to say.” He did not know that his own son had written that bulletin, and I saw the purpose of these bulletins not so much the bearer of truth but to build up morale. And yeah, the Russians are beaten back. The Germans are beaten back on the Russian front, and I made a long story of it. And my dad said— “Yeah,” he said when he saw that, and, again, I don’t know how he got a hold of it. When he saw it, well, he said, “But that’s written by Dutch army officers.” I didn’t contradict him, and I don’t think I ever did. Interviewer: “Now how did you get started doing that?” Slowly on because I had that crystal set that you could listen to the British radio, and I don’t know how I got started doing it. Interviewer: “Okay, but somehow your friend, the law student, must have found out, or you told him or something.” Yeah. Oh, yeah, he knew it. He knew it. Yeah. Interviewer: “All right. Now did you know of people who were involved in the resistance who got caught by the Germans or arrested?” (40:05) Oh, yeah. You know, I said, “Why did you [?] like me?” Did you ever hear—You heard the name of Witte Travel on 28th Street? He is dead—also used to live in this building—and we were very good friends for years already. And he died a while ago—I think two years ago—and he was really involved in the Dutch resistance. He was a policeman—the Coast Guard—and so he walked around in uniform. But one day they caught him and stuck him in jail and did not treat him very kindly. He told me a couple of things about it, and on the day of liberation, May 5, 1944—No, 1945. He was in prison in Amsterdam, and he could see through a crack in the window that people were celebrating in front of the prison. But he was still under lock and never knowing would the Germans still come and out of spite still kill him, and they did a lot of that stuff. Like on the day of liberation the Dutch people were celebrating on the dam square—that’s just D-A-M, no N—in front of the royal palace, and at the corner was a hotel with a balcony. (42:08) And they set up a machine gun and start firing into the crowd, and I think they killed some twenty, twenty-five people there out of spite. Like what they also did is, out of spite—You know what a polder is? Interviewer: “Well, you can explain that because this audience won’t know what one is.” Pardon? Interviewer: “The audience for this will not know what a polder is.” No. A polder is a piece of sea, and they build a dike around it and then empty it so it can be used for agricultural purposes. And they—Out of spite, they blew the dike in one of these polders, and �so the thing was flooded again. Millions of dollars of damage—farms, farmland—but they didn’t care. And so it had to be dried again and then—I think it was saltwater, and then you have to put gypsum on it and kind of plow it—I don’t know exactly how that works. I’m not a chemist, although I was—At first, I would go to be a doctor, but I quit that very soon because chemistry was not my cup of tea. Interviewer: “All right. You were talking about the Germans sort of wrecked things on the way out or as they were about to surrender.” Yeah, yeah, and then when they—After they surrendered, they—Did you ever hear of the enclosure dike? (44:00) That’s—There is a kind of an inner sea connected to the North Sea— saltwater—and there is an enclosure dike, I think, some fifteen miles. And they just let the Germans walk home maybe also out of spite, but—Instead of putting them on trucks. Well, bridges were blown, railroads were impossible, so there was no transportation. Finally, when I went back to seminary in the end of ‘45—No, in the summer of ‘45. Then we had to zigzag across the Netherlands because all these bridges were gone, and in those days we just blessed the Bailey bridges. Did you ever hear of a Bailey bridge? Just like a—Pieces they put together, and then you can make bridges out of it. You can make whatever you want out of it. Interviewer: “Right, right. The military engineers kind of built these replacement bridges. Portable ones. Right.” I don’t know how many bridges there are in Holland, of course, with all these rivers and canals, but the main ones were gone. All the raw material of the railroads were stolen, and we had to start from scratch. When I went back to seminary, I had to hitchhike. There were simply no transportation. Interviewer: “Okay. I want to back up a little bit back into the war years themselves. Now do you remember hearing about the D-Day landings in Normandy in ‘44?” Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Interviewer: “Did you view that as significant or special at the time, or…?” (46:05) That was the turning point in the war for us because we knew this was the beginning of the end, and then the Germans had a very clever way of indicating that they were retreating. I remember when they were retreating in Germany—In Russia. Then the German official bulletin said that heavy fighting, for instance, was going on east of Smolensk—that’s a city in Russia somewhere—but the Russians were beaten back with heavy losses on their part. Couple days later, the official German bulletin said, “The Russians were beaten back with heavy losses on their part west of Smolensk,” which is one way of admitting, “We’re retreating.” And you could never trust these bulletins, of course. We could trust what came from the BBC, and we blindly believed it. Maybe it was overblown a bit at times, but we needed it. Interviewer: “Well, their policy was mostly to actually be accurate and tell the truth because they wanted people to believe them and not the Nazis, so a lot of it would have �been—Okay. Now what about when the British tried to attack through the Netherlands and—to go to Arnhem? Were you paying special attention to that?” “A bridge too far”. Oh, yes. As a matter of fact, my wife was kind of working as a supervisor in a boarding school for Dutch girls of nobility, and one of them—I forget her name. I’ll ask her. One of them was Dutch—Yeah, was Dutch nobility, and the boarding school was right across from the “bridge too far”. (48:29) So I think in June, July ‘44, she left there, went back home. Was getting too dangerous. And a couple of years—I think two and a half years ago was the last time we were in Holland, and then our kids wanted to see the “bridge too far”. And, you know, the “bridge too far” was half—was—They came as far in ‘44 as Nijmegen. That is—There are a couple of rivers there—the Rhine and the Meuse and the Waal—and Nijmegen had a bridge across the Waal. And Arnhem had a bridge across the Rhine, and there was a little town. Maybe they were twenty miles apart. There was a little town halfway, and that’s as far as the Allied came. And they couldn’t get any further, and it lasted like that all winter. And then we had the infamous Hunger Winter. We were evacuated by the Germans because they declared that little fishing harbor to be part of a fortress. (50:05) They tore down a lot of houses there and made a tank trap there—deep canal—and built bunkers in the middle of the city. I don’t know what they came—what came of these bunkers because it is solid concrete, and there were houses right next door to it. So the only way to demolish it would be with—Not with dynamite, but with power tools. Because if they would’ve used dynamite, then many of these houses would’ve been demolished, too. Interviewer: “Okay. Now this was in The Hague that you’re talking about?” In The Hague. Right. Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, so where did they evacuate you to? Just another part of town or farther away?” We—Some people had to go away to—Whose jobs were not supposed to be essential. They had to move to the eastern part of the Netherlands, and because my dad was a minister, we could stay around there. But we had to move out of that circle of that fortress. If you go by streetcar—A streetcar went through that part, but as soon as you came into that part, the conductor had to lock the doors of the—So nobody could get out, and as soon as you’re out of it again, he opened the doors again. And they tore down a lot of—Was beautiful piece of woods behind our house. (52:04) They tore half of it down, and there was a grassy area. I think it was used as a parade ground once, and they put up all kinds of what they called Rommel’s asparagus. That’s poles, and they’re connected with barbed wire—interconnected—so that paratroopers could not land there. Well, they never tried. What happened—They—The Allies in April ‘45 dropped food. I’ll show you some of it, and—Which was more of a token than it really helped because you cannot feed four million people who’s starving out of planes. And the Americans dropped boxes about this by this by this, and we knew right away—Because I was with the underground, we were called up, we were told to go to certain drop areas where they dropped that food, and we knew right away in these boxes where the cigarettes were. So we had a knife, we rush, and right away there was no cigarette left in any of these boxes because we had no cigarettes. Now they—I don’t know what they made them from. It was junk. (54:05) My—One of my professors in seminary �smoked what he called headache tobacco. It was homemade. I don’t know how it was made, but he said, “It gives me headache.” Interviewer: “Okay. Now when those drops got made, did the Germans try to get to the boxes before you did, or…?” There were—A piece of paper was glued to every box. If a German tries to interfere, he is considered to be a war criminal, and there were—was German—The Gestapo was walking around. They hardly did look at it because they knew that the game was over, and they were smarter than messing with it. And then these boxes were mainly brought to hospitals and maybe old age home. I don’t know. We were just told to pick them up and to put them somewhere and then leave them alone, but we did get—Because we were terribly underfed, of course, after that Hunger Winter. Yes, I did eat tulip bulbs and sugar beets. That is not just a story that’s making the rounds, but that’s the truth. And I have seen the Holocaust, so people who want to deny the Holocaust don’t know what they’re talking about. And then after a day work carrying all these boxes—And the British pulled in guinea bags. (56:05) That was dangerous because sometimes one of these bags would land on one of these poles and slide down, and I’ve seen a kid who was working there, too. And he was eating butter. I said, “Man, you’re nuts. You cannot afford it because your stomach won’t take it anymore.” Well, didn’t take very long, and he’s sitting somewhere in the corner and moaning and groaning. But we got a tin of bacon along home, and somehow my mother still had a couple of chickens. So we ate ham and eggs, and a day or so later, the Canadians came in because, you know, the Canadians followed the coast and liberated Holland. Most of it. The Americans did some because they were further east, and I was sitting on the side—by the side of the highway. I didn’t want to miss the arrival of the Canadians, but I couldn’t do anything else but sit. I was so sick. I was so sick because I ate too much of stuff that I shouldn’t have eaten. Oh, but it tasted so good. Interviewer: “All right. Now you had mentioned that you’d seen the Holocaust. What did you mean by that?” I’ve seen, first of all, Jews walking around with the Star of David—“Jew”—and I’ve seen trainloads of Jews being carried away to Poland. (58:03) Many Jews never returned, and I don’t know—No, I better not say this because I can’t vouch for it that it is true. The cruelties. But yeah, again, the total lack of any justice. “Why a person?” “Because he’s a Jew.” Interviewer: “Okay. Now, during the war, did you have any idea what was happening to them, or did you only learn that later?” I think we only heard of it later, but we had suspected it because German police was walking next to these trains that were on their way to Poland. And, you know, interesting thing. I told you about Dachau, and Dachau has been sanitized. You still can see it. Auschwitz is in Poland. I’ve never been there, but a very good friend of mine, John Witte—He has been there in Auschwitz. He said, “That’s where you see what a concentration camp is.” The Poles left it the way they found it instead of cleaning it up. �Interviewer: “All right. Now when you were arrested by the Germans, did they take you to Germany, or did you just stay in Holland for those four days?” No, I stayed in Holland for four days, and it was kind of providence. Yeah, of course, I strongly believe in providence, and—But when I was in a concentration camp—Then the last day I didn’t feel very well, and then, all of a sudden, my number was called. You know, you all had a number? (1:00:16) And I also kind of hit myself, and I don’t know where that piece of cotton is on which the number is stenciled. But, all of a sudden, I heard number so-and-so. I even forgot my number. “Number so-and-so, you have to come to the office.” I felt as fine as I ever did— mind over matter—and I went to the office. And they told me to go home. Interviewer: “How long did it take for things to get back to some kind of normal after the Allied Forces showed up?” Well, again, they first occupied a southern part. What we in Holland—We called below the rivers, and that was in the fall of—Yeah, the fall of ‘44, and then when the Germans surrendered, then the northern part came, which is the most heavily populated. And then very slowly on my sister—My brother was engaged. No, he was married already. His father-in-law was in city government, and he already—And he has—Was a baker. (1:02:11) Yeah, not just—I don’t know how many stores they had in the city, and he already had said, “Don’t you ever think that as soon as the war is over there will be enough again.” I remember that when the war was over—I mentioned in April they dropped that food, and then after liberation, trucks were waiting south of the rivers with food. And it took quite a while before you can supply enough for five million people, so slowly on there was—still was rationing after the war. And I remember that during the war, it was a virtue to escape that rationing, and the resistance sometimes would raid offices where the coupons were and distributed them. And during the war, we made use of that, and then after the war, I said—We said, “No. No, there is a real government again.” And, at first, it was a form of resistance against the Germans—against the Nazis—to try to get away from it, but as soon as the war is over, we shouldn’t do this anymore. (1:04:08) I remember once my dad had a—was minister in a place, and I think that place doesn’t exist anymore. It may well have been taken over by the Amsterdam Airport, which is these enormous runways for these flights across the ocean and to Tokyo. So I would not be amazed if that would be runway now, and—But during the war, I went there once by train and picked up a suitcase full of wheat and other stuff. Edibles. I came to that farm, and all the doors were locked, those close to Amsterdam. All the doors were locked. Finally, I went to the house part of the farm, and then I saw them sitting at— having dinner. And then they saw me and strongly apologized that I was not able to get in. I said, “Oh, I understand that.” Because people came there—“Can we have one potato?” He said, “Sorry. I can’t because in no time flat I’ll be out of potatoes.” But he supplied us, of course, and I carried a heavy suitcase of wheat. And I don’t know what all was in there, and it was a—Yeah, a real outcome for us. (1:06:02) Yeah, what did you ask again? Interviewer: “Well, I was asking sort of about the transition back to peacetime, and you talk about the rationing continued and—” �Yeah, that went slowly. Rationing also disappeared slowly, but to provide for a country that is— has no supplies left because much of it was stolen by the Germans, too—Like cows they took to Germany, and that has to be replenished. And that doesn’t work overnight. Interviewer: “Right. Okay. Now yourself. You said you went back to the seminary then after the war was over?” Yeah. Interviewer: “Okay, and then did you complete a degree there?” Yeah. Degree. Interviewer: “And then after that, what did you do?” Then I got married and went into a parsonage close to Rotterdam, and, yeah, as I said, my dad— My wife was only child. And my dad—My father-in-law was in the grain business—import, export—so he didn’t have much to do during the last year or so of the war. Interviewer: “And then did you stay as a minister for a long time or just a short time or…?” I was—We were in Holland in a ministry in about a year and a half. And then one day I come home, and my wife said, “There’s a guy been here from Canada, and he’ll come back tomorrow.” He had—was on vacation in the Netherlands, and he heard a minister preach. (1:08:08) And he walked up to him, and he talked to him about Canada. And the guy said, “Sorry.” He said, “Two weeks ago, I was installed in this church.” He said, “I can’t very well think about it.” “Do you know somebody else?” Then he mentioned me because I had talked to him a couple of years earlier. You know, in those days, immigration was in the air. Holland had been locked up for five years, and then, all of a sudden, immigration started. And they went by the boatload. By the boatload and in troopships, so that was not the most comfortable way of shipping. And churches were opening up in Canada, Australia, New Zealand because people wanted to get away from the confinement. Yeah, and Holland is a small country. A farmer with a couple of sons—He only had one farm, and you couldn’t split it up. Although there is one very, very conservative place in Holland where they—where the farmer has two sons they just divide the land in a small, very—sometimes very narrow piece, and—Yeah, but someday you run out of it, and that’s one of the reason that immigration started also. (1:10:07) Interviewer: “All right, so then—You then met this person, and did he convince you to go to Canada?” No. Oh, yeah, he came to our house, and we talked about it. Most of us right away felt, “Hey. That is something.” And then a bit later—couple of weeks later—a fat letter came in the mail from Canada, and we said right away, “That’s a call letter.” And yeah. Then we accepted that call and went to Canada. �Interviewer: “Okay, and where in Canada did you go?” We went to Essex, Ontario. That’s right across—It’s—Windsor was part of my parish, and then we stayed there for a couple of years. Six years. Then we went to London, Ontario, and from there we got a call to Grand Rapids. And we—And that’s the church where we—from which we retired. Interviewer: “Okay, and which church was that?” East Paris on East Paris Avenue here in town. Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now if you look back on that whole experience during the wartime and when the Germans were there and so forth, are there particular things that you think you learned from it or lessons that came out of that or things that maybe affected the way you view the world?” (1:12:00) You know, there is one hymn. “He leadeth me by His own hand. He leadeth me. His faithful follower I will be, for by His hand He leadeth me.” And we—All through our life, we’ve experienced that in so many different ways. The way we met. A lot of people called she a coincidence. I attended a student conference in Switzerland as a delegate from our student body. I was a member of the student senate, and then afterwards—It was in ‘46. Afterwards, we were invited by families in Switzerland to stay there sometime, and I went there with another Hollander. And, you know, Switzerland has not been touched by the war, and these people had heard about the Hunger Winter. And they really fed us, and then, at the given moment, I said, “I’m going home.” And that Swiss lady was kind of upset, but [?] “Is it not good enough here?” I said, “Yes, it is, but I’m going.” And I come home in my room in the seminary town, and I find a note there that I had to attend another conference—a student conference—in Holland. (1:14:04) So I went, and my dad said, “What are you? A student or an eternal conference goer?” But I went anyways, and there I met—saw two girls walking there. And I said, “Hey. That girl is mine,” and she still is. You see these flowers around here? We just celebrated our sixtieth anniversary, and we have not regretted it. Oh, sometimes I’m sure she says to herself, “I could wring his neck,” but she’s never done it yet. I don’t think she ever even came close to it. Interviewer: “All right. Okay. Is there anything else you’d like to add to the story here before we close out the interview?” Like I said, “He leadeth me.” The way we met, the way we went to Canada, all through, and that’s also—I’m almost eighty-nine next month. Next month too old to be eighty-nine. My wife is eighty-seven, and that always has given us strength because we know that you won’t be there that long anymore. But also then, when we depart from this world, “He leadeth me. By His own hand He leadeth me.” And that gives us joy, peace, satisfaction, and yeah. Interviewer: “I think that makes a pretty good way to close an interview, so thank you very much for taking the time to talk to us today.” Good. (1:16:17) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bauma, Gerard (Interview transcript and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bauma, Gerard Description An account of the resource Gerry Bauma lived in the Netherlands during World War II. As a seminary student, he had the opportunity to live in the times without having to go into forced labor as many of his friends did, although he was at one point caught up in a German sweep and sent to a forced labor camp, where he stayed until the seminary arranged for him to be released. He also observed the initial German attempt to capture the Hague by air, and after the surrender took his bike up to Rotterdam to inspect the bomb damage. He got a radio during the war, and passed along things he learned to a friend who ran an underground newspaper. He survived the "Hunger Winter" of 1944-45, and emigrated to Canada shortly after the war. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-02-08 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BaumaG1076V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f71423c8b8168094d0c4f4bd3c5a7e31.m4v 2ad403812d25ea5eceaed791ed1e11a2 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/120e5ceba7b461f296cf6dc2979febca.pdf 3c998bc76a61a5af68febe0f072e0390 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project Edwin Baumann World War II 1 hour 4 minutes 11 seconds (00:00:16) Early Life -Born in Stockton, California on June 19, 1923 -Started school at five and a half years old in San Francisco -Immediately went into the first grade -When he was seven years old his parents divorced and he moved to Sonoma, California -Lived with his grandparents and an uncle on their farm -Family was poor during the Great Depression (00:01:16) Start of the War -He was eighteen years old when Pearl Harbor was attacked -Sister heard the news at a neighborhood store and told him -He didn't believe her until he heard the radio report for himself -Believed that a war with Japan would only last a couple weeks -Uncle became an air raid warden -Edwin assisted his uncle -There were a few air raids that proved to be false -When they did happen he helped his uncle tell the farmers to turn off their lights -Believed that Japan was going to invade California (00:02:50) Enlisting in the Army Air Force -Wanted to enlist and become a pilot in the Army Air Force -Required two years of college to be a pilot though -Army dropped that requirement a few years after Pearl Harbor -He went to Hamilton Army Airfield, California and to enlist as an aviation cadet -Passed the colorblindness test and the blood pressure test -Sent home to wait for orders -Enlisted in April 1942 (00:04:05) Basic Training -Called up for duty in August 1942 -At the time he was aware of the fighting in Europe and Asia in the summer of 1942 -Knew classmates from school that had joined the military and were fighting -Received a letter to report to San Francisco -Took a ferry from San Francisco to Oakland and boarded a train bound for Texas -Took four days to get to Texas -Stopped at a town in Colorado -Travelled in a "sleeper" car and slept in bunks -Arrived at the San Antonio Aviation Cadet Center -Still in civilian clothes �-First days of training were spent whitewashing stones and picking up cigarette butts -He was the first one in his tent to get a uniform because his civilian shoes wore out -Hurricane hit the area -They were ordered to collapse their tents and sit on them -After that their tent leaked -While cleaning they found a piece of paper with cadet test scores on it -His group looked at it until a captain yelled at all of them to get back to work -From that point on none of the men worked too hard -Eventually got assigned to a barracks -Marched to the mess hall for breakfast and marched to the mess hall for dinner -Food was terrible -An older sergeant organized a mutiny over the food -They refused to march to the mess hall until food improved -Higher ranking officer ordered them to -Sergeant was called before the colonel because of the protest -The sergeant and colonel had been friends for many years -Colonel respected the sergeant -Made him commandant of the cadets -Food didn't improve (00:10:38) Flight Training -Edwin's next assignment was Hicks Field, Texas for Primary Flight Training -He did well in Primary Flight Training and had a good instructor -Got in trouble in Primary for not saluting an officer -Watched for any other mistakes after that -Flew PT-19s in Primary -Flew BT-13s in Basic Flight Training -The commandant at Hicks Field was a World War I veteran pilot that liked all of the cadets -Let them get away with things that they shouldn't have -Eventually made the choice to be a bomber pilot as opposed to a fighter pilot -Sent to Twin Engine School where he flew the Cessna AT-17 -Happiest day of his life (at the time) was when he solo flew for the first time -Remembers flying back to the base in the rain and didn't care -Had a good instructor in Twin Engine School -In Twin Engine School always flew with another cadet -Alternated between being the pilot and being the co-pilot -Did cross-country flights and low-level flights in Twin Engine School -Flying came naturally to him -Remembers one night flight in Twin Engine School when the engines cut out -Only eight hundred feet off the ground when it happened -He had accidentally turned off the cross feed valve -Allowed gas to flow between the two engines -Immediately turned it back on which turned the engines back on -Each phase of flight training lasted nine weeks -Took Advanced Flight Training in Lubbock, Texas -One of his old flight instructors and the instructors wife attended Edwin's graduation �-Instructors wife pinned Edwin's pilot wings on him -Appreciated their attendance -Tremendous sense of accomplishmennt -Treated like royalty -Taken to the ceremony in a police squad car (00:19:46) B-24 Training -Went up to Washington -Stayed there for a week -Originally supposed to be on a B-17 crew -Too many pilots and not enough B-17s -He was sent to Boise, Idaho from Washington to be a co-pilot on a B-24 -Joined a B-24 and went to Pocatello, Idaho for training -Pilot didn't like flying so he let Edwin do most of the flying -He got about sixty hours of flight time as a co-pilot -Sent back to Boise for Transition Training to become a pilot in a B-24 -Completed that training -Had no idea whether he would wind up in the European Theatre or the Pacific Theatre (00:21:47) Training Accident -He was assigned to a B-24 crew as a pilot and sent to Mountain Home Air Base, Idaho -Stationed there for about three weeks -On August 28, 1943 he and his crew went on an air-ground training mission -Opportunity for the gunners to get target practice -Had a fire in the nose of the bomber -No fire extinguisher -Nose gunner's machine gun caused a fire in the insulation -They braced for crash landing and he thought he was going to die -Accpeted it and wanted it to happen fast -The next thing he remembers is being on top of the bomber and the crew is running away -His left arm was injured -Bombardier was badly burned -Built a fire at night with the other survivors -Another bomber dropped medical kits for them -Next morning the ground crew evacuated them -He spent eight days in the hospital for his arm -Bombardier was evacuated to a hospital in Salt Lake City and died two weeks later -One of the gunners died in the bomber -Instructor died in the crash -Ball turret had to be grounded because he refused to fly again -He continued training with the survivors and the replacements (00:28:05) Joining the 461st Bombardment Group -Joined the 461st Bombardment Group at Hammer Field in Fresno, California -Colonel insisted on them learning how to do good formation flying -Extremely useful when flying bombing missions -He did well with formation flying �(00:30:30) Deployment to Europe -In January 1944 they went to Hamilton Field, California to pick up their B-24 -Flew to Palm Springs, California to Midland, Texas to Memphis to West Palm Beach, Florida -Originally thought they'd be going to the Pacific Theatre -Germans knew they were coming -Remembers hearing a German radio broadcast welcoming the 461st and taunting them -Flew down to the Caribbean, over to Dakar, Senegal then north to Marrakesh, Morocco -Flew over to Tunis and stayed there for two weeks getting additional training (00:32:08) Arrival in Italy -Flew up to Toretto Field, Italy -Raining when they arrived -Had to wait for the weather to clear before they started flying missions -Quartered in tents -Officers and enlisted men were kept in separate tents -Officers and enlisted men had separate mess halls (00:33:38) Flying Missions -First mission was a "milk run" -Bombing a rail yard in Yugoslavia -No flak and no fighters -Still lost two bombers due to a mid-air collision -Worst mission was his third mission -Bombing run over Budapest, Hungary -Germans attacked with Me-110s firing rockets into the B-24 formation -He watched a rocket hit a B-24 that rolled into another B-24 -Later met some survivors from those bombers -They witnessed the British bombing of Budapest -Tightened up their formation to protect each other from the German planes -So close that spent machine gun shells were hitting his bomber -Lost a wind panes in the cockpit because of that -Got briefed before each mission -Hated going to places like Ploesti and Budapest -Told what route they'd take, weather conditions, and expected resistance -Information wasn't always accurate -After briefing they went to the bombers and took off -Flew out twenty miles then got into formation -Did saturation bombing -When the lead bomber dropped its bombs the rest of the bombers followed suit -Knew they were targeting German resources and supplies -Mostly oil fields and rail yards -Flew two missions over Ploesti -On the first mission they encountered a lot of resistance -Didn't get hit -Ran into a massive amount of flak �-Dropped their bombs as fast as they could and got out -Fear didn't set in until they were back at the base -Dreaded the next mission -During the mission he focused on getting the job done, couldn't focus on the fear -Always lost at least one bomber during a mission -Didn't get emotional about it, couldn't afford to get emotional (00:46:06) Shot Down -Second mission over Ploesti didn't seem as bad -Things were fine until they dropped their bombs -Bomb bay filled up with gas -Had to wait for the fuel to drain out of the bomb bay -Lost engine one and fell behind the formation -Fortunately, they didn't get attacked by bombers -They started taking flak over Yugoslavia -A piece of flak hit the window closest to him and his face got peppered with shrapnel -They made it to the Yugoslavian coast then decided to abandon the bomber -Bailed out at 13,000 feet -The entire crew made it out okay -Only injury was the bombardier spraining his ankle on the landing -They all landed on an island off the coast of Yugoslavia -Edwin landed in a vineyard -Area was occupied by German troops (00:51:03) Captured -He started walking toward where the other crewmen landed -En route got captured by Austrian soldiers -One of the enlisted men had already been captured by the Austrians -Austrians were friendly, young, and gave them water -Rest of the crew was captured and they were reunited as prisoners of war -Austrians brought them to a small town on the island -A German doctor gave Edwin a tetanus shot because of the shrapnel -Taken to the mainland by ferry and put in a civilian jail -Next day they marched twenty miles -Bombardier was put on a mule because of his ankle -Edwin wasn't feeling good of the shot -An Italian civilian got him some tea from a nearby house to settle his stomach -They were in German custody -Germans were grufff, but not threatening -Taken to a small coastal town -Placed on a mining barge and sailed up the Mostar River to the city of Mostar -Boarded a train in Mostar -Guarded by three young German soldiers that were friendly -Traveled by train to Sarajevo and boarded another train -Taken to a prisoner of war camp in Belgrade -A few days later D-Day happened �-A German officer spoke to Edwin about it -Kept there for five days -British and Americans bombed Belgrade while they were there -Older Yugoslavian women gave them Red Cross parcels -He gave some of his chocolate to a teenage girl -They all gave some of their chocolate to the older Yugoslavian women (01:02:28) Reflections on Service Pt. 1 -Volunteered because he wanted to serve his country -Didn't feel forced to serve -Doesn't regret his service -Got a lot out of it (01:03:10) Life after the War -Went to college on the GI Bill -Graduated with a degree in engineering -Worked as an aerospace engineer for thirty seven years (01:03:27) Reflections on Service Pt. 2 -Service was good to him -Prisoner of war experience definitely had an impact on him -Prisoner for eleven months and he hated every minute of it -Felt like he wasted an entire year of his life -Made him see the value of freedom when he was deprived of it � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_BaumannE1794V Title A name given to the resource Baumann, Edwin (Interview outline and video), 2005 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-10-20 Description An account of the resource Edwin Baumann was born on June 19, 1923 in Stockton, California. In April 1942 he enlisted in the Army Air Force to become a pilot and began training in August 1942. He received training at San Antonio Aviation Cadet Center, Texas then went on to train at Hicks Field, Texas and Lubbock, Texas, graduating with the ability to fly twin engine aircraft. He was trained with a B-24 crew in Mountain Home Air Base, Idaho and survived a crash there before being assigned to the 461st Bombardment Group at Hammer Field, California. In January 1944 he and his crew were deployed to the European Theatre and were stationed at Toretto Field, Italy. He flew bombing missions over Yugoslavia, Romania, and Hungary and got shot down on a bombing raid on Ploesti in May 1944. He was captured in Yugoslavia and became a prisoner of war for eleven months placing his liberation as sometime in April 1945. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Baumann, Edwin Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Forces Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/x-m4v application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/87f9f709762b06e5b8c39f0fb8487e7e.mp4 1abcbc02dd4ca54e5711968b8b535dfa https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f8a7c7451ee4fe9215968d2234e1bea9.pdf 8eab3cbbe6004f009ad1fd5aee69e96d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University All American Girls Professional Baseball League Veterans History Project Interviewee’s Name: Jacqueline Baumgart Length of Interview: (01:28:17) Interviewed by: Frank Boring, Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Transcribed by: Joan Raymer February 20, 2010 Interviewer: “What was your early childhood like?” Hard. Interviewer: “In what way?” It was very hard. We were eight and I was the youngest of eight and I did not have a father, so the whole time during the depression was very, very difficult. Interviewer: “What did your mother do to support you?” She did washing clothes, ironing clothes, house cleaning. That’s what she knew how to do and in those days—women, that’s pretty much what they did with a fifth grade education. Interviewer: “What was school like before high school?” 1:38 Before high school, I got into trouble a lot because I wanted to play ball and I wanted to kick the ball and play ball and do what all the boys were doing. I grew up with boys, brothers, and so I tagged along, a few feet behind, but I tagged along. We played a lot of softball and scrub games and that’s how I learned how to play and whenever they didn’t have enough players, they let me play. 2:17 I was little, I was very, very little and when they let me play, they put me in the outfield because they didn’t have to shag the ball and then I learned how to throw very long and hard because I was throwing the ball back in and that’s how I really learned how. By playing with the boys, it gave me an opportunity to develop physically, because, like I said, I was very, very small. 2:57 Interviewer: “The town you grew up in, was it a very big town or was it a small town?” It was a small town. Waukegan is located between Milwaukee and Chicago and very near there was the Great Lakes Training Center and not too far from there was Fort Sheridan and so, it was just a small town and in fact very close to Kenosha, where I wound up playing and about the same size. 3:30 Interviewer: “How about high school, how was high school for you?” High school was very, very interesting. I moved to Milwaukee in March of 1942. 1 �Interviewer: “Your whole family?” No, I had a sister living in Milwaukee and two of my brothers went into the service and mother had received a widow’s pension and that kind of decreased a little bit when they went into service, so I moved to Milwaukee to live with a sister and from there, which was a great thing because that helped me develop differently than what I would have in Waukegan. I had playgrounds to play on. 4:16 You couldn’t play in the schools in competition, but we could play on the playgrounds in the summer and I fortunately—the alley behind the house had a common fence, with the alley and the playground and so when my sister asked me to take the garbage out, I said “sure”, because I took the garbage out and I was gone. That’s how I started and there were two gentlemen that had worked with the Milwaukee recreation department and the playgrounds had directors and one was Bunny Brief and one was Jack Chlossa, both professional ball players, because we were going from playground to playground, and they said, “I think we’ll take you out to West Allis”, which is a suburb, because they had a fast pitch softball league there. They took me out there and I got on the team right away— Interviewer: “Now by team—is this a girls team?” 5:25 A girls team. I finally found that I was good at something, because you don’t know, you’re always playing with the boys and it’s a different kind of competition when you do that. The boys say that you are only a girl and I had to live through that and that develops a certain kind of tenacity in you and so when I went to West Allis, they had about eight softball teams, fast pitch, and the first year that I was there, we won the state championship. My mother came into town and it was the first and only game that she saw was winning, winning my first championship. 6:17 One to nothing on a balk. That’s the kind of close competitive games that I was learning all the while. Interviewer: “Now, after the game, what did your mother have to say?” Not too much, she really—it was indifferent to her, she didn’t really know anything about sports, particularly women playing sport, and she just thought it was nice, everybody treated me nice, so that was her main important thought. She didn’t live with us in Milwaukee; she went back to Waukegan and was living there. 7:01 Interviewer: “What position were you playing by this time?” A catcher. Interviewer: “Were you always a catcher?” No, I was always everything and that’s how I grew up, to play every position. I played every position and I actually became a catcher during the wintertime when we were playing inside a gym with a different kind of ball—it was a little bit larger ball than a softball, it had an out seam to it and a little softer, I mean it wasn’t had at all and I was just playing in the outfield, but they all knew that I wanted to play and that I could play 2 �anywhere. At one point a pitcher wasn’t doing too good, so the catcher became the pitcher and then they said, “Well, who wants to catch?” All eyes came this was, I mean I didn’t have to say much of anything, so I went into catch, well, I dropped the first foul ball, “tip’ you know, and I realized that I had to keep my eyes open because you flinch and that’s an automatic response and I said, “I have to keep my eyes open”. 8:20 By the end of the game there was a foul ball and I caught it and from then on, I was a catcher. Those are the kinds of things that happen that lead you in a direction. Coming to Milwaukee, doing something like that as a catcher, staying a catcher, going out to West Allis, being pointed the way; it has an awful lot of importance for my development. 8:49 Interviewer: “Now how old were you at this time? This was still high school?” I was in—yes; I was about fifteen and a half, sixteen, something like that. Interviewer: “So you’re going to high school, you’re playing ball with this group? What happened next? Did you graduate from high school?” I graduated from high school and then I was working and playing out in WestAllis, softball, and we began to start playing baseball and we were playing in West Milwaukee, which is between West Milwaukee and West Allis in terms of property lines and during that time I was scouted for the All American Girls Baseball League. 9:54 Interviewer: “Did you know anything about this group prior to that?” I knew a little bit because some had started to come back from playing professional ball and we had to wait a year or two before you could play amateur again. I knew that they had played and I knew that Milwaukee had had a team. I became a knotholer because we didn’t have any money, nobody had any money and I was a catcher and another lady, Edna Shear, lived in Cedarburg another suburb and we both were scouted. I didn’t know, we didn’t know we were scouted and I got a card in the wintertime, close to winter, and it said to go to someplace in Pennsylvania or Newark, New Jersey. 10:53 I didn’t know that Edna had received a card and her card said Chicago was where she was supposed to go. Well, I wanted to play, so I borrowed some money, took a train and went to Newark, New Jersey all by myself and my world wasn’t any larger than from Waukegan to Milwaukee, which is about forty-five minutes away. 11:22 Interviewer: “Now, just previous to that, you’re still living with your sister.” Yes. Interviewer: “So, did you talk it over with her at all? Did you have anybody that you talked about going to New Jersey?” No, I just went. I borrowed money from a sister that was living in Waukegan and she was married to a dentist, so I figured they had a little bit of money and sure enough it was either fifty or sixty dollars that I borrowed. To go. 11:51 3 �Interviewer: “So you arrive in New Jersey, what was your first impression of New Jersey?” Big, huge—where do I put my foot next? Sounds are so different, very, very different. Speaking the English language was different—in “New Joyzee” you know, that was a little bit different, but I was met at the train by I think it was three, of the ball players and they were part of the recruiting and all of that. They took me to a gym, an inside gym, just like the movie and I tried out, I had my glove, a catche’rs glove, and we went up against the wall and then we went one by one and there was a black lady sitting next to me and she didn’t have a glove, so she asked if she could use my glove and I said, “ yes, but it’s a catchers glove”, and she said, “that’s ok”, so she went and she came back and I went and the three of them took me out to dinner after that because I was staying in a private home. 13:17 Interviewer: “The three originals that picked you up at the railroad station?” Yes. They were the only contacts that I had. They asked me, “was that your glove or her glove?” I said, “it was my glove”, and then they said, “Oh, we don’t do that”. That was my first introduction into how people felt about other people, because where I grew up in Waukegan, we were pretty much a mixed group and for me there wasn’t any kind of distinction when you were going to play ball or whatever, so that was very upsetting for me. 14:05 Interviewer: “In that particular gym, you mentioned yourself and then there was a black woman there too, were there other women there trying out? About how many?” There were probably twelve to fifteen or something like that. Interviewer: “But there was actually one black woman in there?” Yes, one black woman. Interviewer: “Wow, do you know what ever happened to her?” No. Interviewer: “After you had the dinner with the three, you went back to the host home and you stayed overnight, what happened next?” I just went to the train again and came back. One of the things that I just very well remember was going through the oil city in Pennsylvania—you could smell it—it’s a whole new smell, everything was so new and so different. 15:05 When you’re by yourself, you learn how to—what to accept and what not too. I’m a survivor of a lot of things and was attuned to a lot of things going on and very much a real experience. For one to grow up at that age, very impressionable and I take everything in, like you learn how to steal second or something. 4 �Interviewer: “Once you got back home to Milwaukee, was there another communication of some kind?” 15:57 Yes, before spring training I got another card and it said to go to South Bend, Indiana and I met about sixty girls there and we had a spring training. Spring training wasn’t easy it was very hard. Interviewer: “Tell us, first of all keep in mind, you were there and we weren’t, so I kind of want to visualize your arriving there were sixty girls there. Give us—take us there to spring training.” 16:29 Spring training—early in the morning and we would go until noon, we had a light lunch and only because I was thin, if they had a little extra couple of cups of ice cream they would say, “here you need this”, and we had a little bit of rest period because we ate and then it was all afternoon again until four o’clock, we never let up. We didn’t play an actual game, but it was like an infield practice. You went to a position or you said you wanted to go and you played that however the manager wanted it to go, because it wasn’t a game, it was—he was almost actually teaching us. He wanted to know what we really knew and how we would think and respond to the ball and other players and to managing, how we would respond to directions. 17:40 After that I was told to go to Racine to meet up with Rockford. Interviewer: “So, at spring training—I know a lot of these answers, but I still want to get it for the record. The spring training, you did not have a team yet, you were not on a team yet?” Not yet, no. Interviewer: “So the girls were all playing different positions to see which ones they could play well or not well and then a decision was made as to what team you’re going to play on?” Right. Interviewer: “What were you wearing during spring training?” 18:10 Just jeans and shorts depending on how warm it was. Interviewer: “But it wasn’t uniforms, just whatever you brought to play is what you wore?” Right. Interviewer: “So the spring training was completed and they let you know that you were now a?” I went to Rockford—actually Rockford was in Racine and so that’s where I went and I was there for a week and I was under the tutelage of Bill Allington, I learned more from him in one week than I did in all the time before. As we look back at it now it has to do with—we came with the skills and the professional men managers helped us become 5 �professionals. A lot of little things that you never think of, if you get into bad habits naturally in terms of batting and throwing. 19:14 Interviewer: “Give me an example of maybe one of the ones that you learned. You say that you learned more in that week, well, give me an idea, what did you learn?” One in particular, because I was a catcher and we would have an infield practice and all of a sudden he threw the ball down on the ground and I took that to be a bunt, which it was, so I hopped right after it I picked it up and I went like this and then I let it go and he did it again and I did the same thing and he said, “now what did you do that for?” I said, “What do you mean?” He said, “you put your hand into the glove and then you throw the ball. That runner has got a whole step and a half on you.” You don’t think about those things when you’re just playing and learning a little bit, just a natural by osmosis thinking The managers we had playing fast pitch were good managers, but they weren’t teaching us anything. 20:18 They just taught us about some things as the game moved along. You really weren’t learning like we learned in the professional league and of course I listened. I did that all my life was to watch and listen and from that I learned an awful lot. Now the other thing was in hitting, I stood too far in the back and he said, “you got to move up a little bit and choke up a little bit. You got to be brave and go all the way down to the bottom of the bat. Just choke up a little bit because then you have more balance at the end of the bat. We have to learn to hit and bat according to our bodies what we can do and what we can’t do it isn’t all show. If you want to play, you play, you don’t act up.” 21:18 Interviewer: “Good advice” It is and he didn’t mean it in the sense of show off, he meant it in the sense of getting out of bad habits. Interviewer: “Let me ask you a question and this may sound like an unfair question and you don’t have an answer for it, but he’s a professional male baseball player and he’s working with you as a very young girl. Did you get any sense that he was treating you like a girl or treating you like a baseball player?” Like a baseball player, because he knew his positions as a manager and what it probably might have been like for him when he started out being a professional. It’s a transitional period and he knew how to do that. He also knew that you had to learn not only how to play, but the intricacies of the game, the whole game, the whole thing, whether you were catcher or first baseman, pitcher or an outfielder, you learned it all, everything that’s going on because three things, 1 is the ball, naturally, there is no play without the ball, 2nd is accuracy, if you’re going to play, you don’t just throw, you concentrate, not too hard, but you concentrate on where you’re going to throw that ball and the 3rd one is to think where you’re going to throw that ball, when are you going to throw the ball and to be ready to receive. 23:02 For him those were the three most important things. They are very, very basic, they don’t get anymore basic than that, and it will take you a long way. The other thing he pointed out was that you are on the field playing and the manager is watching all of this and the manager doesn’t miss a trick and so if you think you’re going 6 �to fluff off, it doesn’t work because the manager sees what you are doing and those are some of the little things that make you a professional ball player. 23:51 Interviewer: “Once the spring training was over with and you were chosen to be on the team, what was the process of getting your uniform and do you remember what it was like to see your uniform for the first time?” After that I was sent to Chicago, excuse me, the northern part of Chicago, and most of the girls I met in South Bend were there. They were choosing thirty girls to make up two teams, so that means that there are fifteen players on a team, that’s all we had. I was chosen as a Springfield Sally and only because we had the uniforms. They tried a team in Springfield and it didn’t work and the other team was called the Chicago Colleens because Chicago had a professional team. It wasn’t baseball, it was fast pitch softball and they set-up a perimeter and around that perimeter, we couldn’t play anywhere near there because it was an infringement, so they put us on a bus, thirty of us girls, the two women chaperones managers, a man manager, sometimes the business manager, and sent us all east of the Mississippi and into Canada. 25:28 I probably was one of the older ones and another Cuban girl was, I think, about twenty-four. I think I was going on twenty-one or something like that, but the others were all younger. What it was—it was a traveling team to gain experience playing professional baseball. In the towns that we played, they had charities that they gave money to and then to have tryouts. Every time we went someplace, there were tryouts and when we came back to Cleveland, I think it was, we just went home. 26:26 Interviewer: “So it was two teams of fifteen, traveling and playing each other?” Yes. Everyplace you were just playing each other, playing each other. You were actually getting back on the bus together, so you had the camaraderie of being on a team, but you would separate out and play each other?” Yes. That’s a learning process, a growing process because we were from all over the United States and Cuba. The whole experience is more than an experience. That’s how I look at it, it became a way of life because you ate baseball and played baseball, slept baseball, we went from one town to the next town and very seldom were we two nights in the same town. 27:30 We never read the write-ups you know. Interviewer: “Give me an idea, I know this might sound dull, but what’s the routine? You get up in the morning, you get on the bus, you go—walk us through a typical day when you go on one of those excursions and how it was.” Well, you know it depended on how late we got in from one town to the other, especially going in and through the mountains. Sometimes we would be like six in the morning coming in, so we went to bed. I went to bed early because I needed my eight hours. We would get up, we ate together in different restaurants and places and we then would rest because we couldn’t eat sooner than two hours before we were going to play, so that was kind of a restful time, lounging time, and that was a time when we weren’t in close proximities in what we were doing and we maybe went to a movie or something and 7 �chose different things. 28:53 We would then get dressed and ready to go onto the bus and the bus would take us to the ball park and then we would work out and I mean work out, and then play a game and shower, find a place to eat, travel, depending on how far we had to go, and the next day the same thing. 29:20 There was sometimes a little long time in a city depending on how far it was and what time was and how long it took to get there. We still had to take care of our own clothes. Interviewer: “Wash your own clothes and stuff, wow.” We would go to a Laundromat, but not the uniform. Interviewer: “How did the uniform get cleaned?” I don’t know--the managers took care of that. They took it to a Laundromat or where ever they could. 29:50 Interviewer: “What were the fans like?” Very good. In the towns that we were in, they had either a double A or a triple A team and the diamonds that we played on were good, which was a nice thing. Interviewer: “You were obviously getting locals that came out to see the teams. Did you have a lot of girls, women or men or was it more mixed?” It was mixed, more men than what they might have now because it wasn’t as popular and we were sort of an entertainment or a show of some kind and people wanted to see what we were all about. There was advance publicity and quite often we had more fans then the home team that played there because we were playing when they were out of town. 30:55 We would hear that and when we made a good play we were rewarded with—it was like a whole surprise for them to see that because we were very good and we came with the skills and we were naturals. We also exhibited the joy that we had in playing even though we played the same team all the time; we were still growing and learning. 31:30 Interviewer: “The two teams were they exactly the same or did you switch over and play catcher for one and then play catcher for another or was it always the same group playing against the same team?” Yes. Interviewer: “That makes sense, so once that was over with and you went back to Milwaukee, then what happened? What was the next stop in all of this?” I got a card. I got another card because all thirty of us were put in the “pot” so to speak and the teams told—this one and that one, and I was asked to go to Kalamazoo, Michigan, so I want to spring training there and Kenosha didn’t have a catcher at that time, so I was catching for Kenosha even though I belonged to Kalamazoo and after spring training Kenosha bought my contract, whatever that was, because when I signed the contract it was blank. You never knew what you were getting or anything else, you just signed the contract and you were going to play ball. 32:39 8 �Interviewer: “Now if you’re playing for two different teams, what was the uniform?” The same uniform except in a sense it was Kalamazoo and I’m trying to remember that part of it because I don’t remember it being any different. When I went to Kenosha, I had their regular uniform. Interviewer: “Now, on the touring team with the thirty of you, you were already a professional baseball player, but now with the new team, this is now the American— the league, so this is different, did you have any sense of going from this to this or were you just going to keep playing baseball?” 33:45 There was a little bit of that yes, because you’re coming into an already—a team that is in place, so there’s a lot of difference coming to a team than what we did, because we were all new to each other in terms of what we were going to do and this team was already in place. They already had their own ways of what they were doing and who they get along with, where they go and now we have a home place and then we have on the road, so your monies are different, you take care of your own stuff when you’re at home and on the road you get a per dium I call it. 34:35 We all got pretty much the same for that. Interviewer: “Well, as the newcomer into this team, how did you get along?” Quietly. Quietly in a sense of interaction. More quiet—you have a different manager, everybody has their own style, how they do things and I had to learn all that. It wasn’t too hard to learn it, but you had to learn the differences. Some managers manage a lot and some managers manage a little and they kind of let you play. It was about the same thing with the players because they’re older, not much, but they had been playing, so they have a couple of years under their belt and you’re a “rookie”, you’re a “rookie”. I still had to carry the bats and things. From my own growing up and my formative years, I learned how to understand where my place is wherever I am and whomever I’m with. 36:11 That part wasn’t too hard, I could read that and I knew that because I’m a survivor. You do make friends in the sense of hanging with some more than you do others and I think there were three or four “rookies” on the team in Kenosha, so we kind of hung together for a while. Interviewer: “Was there a point and I know this is kind of a difficult question because it’s so specific, you’re a “rookie”, was there a moment, was there a period of time when you felt like you were no longer a “rookie” and whatever you were doing the went, “oh, she’s good”? 37:05 I got a hit—see, I was a straight away hitter, I wasn’t a long distance hitter, partly because of my weight and you’re the catcher so you bat eighth and I smacked one over the second baseman’s head, because we were playing baseball rules now, we’re a bigger diamond, we’re not on the softball diamond and I got to first base and I said, “It’s about time”, and I remember it so distinctly and it’s a great, great feeling to do that. I didn’t 9 �throw anybody out at second, but I was pretty close a couple of times and that is a great moral builder for me anyway. 38:00 Interviewer: “You felt different, but did you notice a difference also from the other players that you were treated a little bit differently?” Sure, because we’re a team and that’s how you become a team is learning to play together and giving lots of kudos when they’re necessary and I never experienced any player getting down on a another player like, “what did you do that for?” You were the one that made the mistake, so there was none of that and most managers wouldn’t allow that. We learned how to be a team by practice and you practiced as hard as you played, you didn’t sluff-off. 39:04 For me as a catcher, one of the most marvelous things that can happen and the joy really comes out, is when we have infield practice and you “around the horn” as we called it, after a certain ply and then you “zip” to first, second, third, back, back down to second for the shortstop and over to first or the opposite, because when we played we ‘zipped” the ball, we didn’t just throw, we “zipped” it. 39:37 Interviewer: “Now by this time the charm school and all that had been over with or did you have to do that too?” No, I didn’t have to do that. Interviewer: “You knew about it or you heard about it though?” Yes, I heard a lot bout it. Interviewer: “What do you mean, you heard a lot about it?” Well, they would tell little stories about having to walk down steps with a book on your head and they thought how ridiculous. Well, how do you walk down the steps with a book on your head and a “Charlie horse”? It’s bad enough with just the book on your head. If you had a sore leg or something then—and the next time you walk down steps what are you looking at? You look down like this and you can’t keep a book on your head when you do that. That usually pretty much what they talked about and the etiquette part. They didn’t like—I eat like I eat like I eat and there were a lot of jokes about different things and we took it all in and it’s a part of the camaraderie, we had great camaraderie and we still do. 41:00 Interviewer: “Tell me about strawberries.” I didn’t do too much sliding because of my position in the batting order, but I did have some when I got on, they weren’t really strawberries, they were more or less things that—you know when somebody’s coming into home and sliding in home, we didn’t go head first, we had hook slides, so you had to—I learned from Mr. Allington, I learned because I was—I didn’t want to get bowled over, so what he taught me was to give him just a little corner and to turn sideways so that I don’t have the full force and you turn sideways because then you’re in a position to move your legs and go wherever you need to go after the ball, but there still were collisions and things like that because you don’t 10 �know where the balls coming from when you begin and I did get knocked over one time in pro, but it was just the nature of the game. 42:38 Very much how the play happened, developed and happened. There was nothing like foul play or anything like that; we purposely didn’t do those things. Interviewer: “What did you think of the uniform?” I’ll have to tell you, the first time I put that uniform on, I cried because what flooded in my mind was of this little kid at home playing with the boys and here I am—I get teary eyed just thinking about it because it was never a dream to become a professional ball player, the dream was to survive, the dream was to do the best you can in whatever you do—lit was like winning a game, when you win—oh, that’s great. This was my own kind of winning and I kind of stood there for a little bit after I was dressed and I said, “Ah, this is it, this is it”, and I never forgot that. 44:07 Interviewer: “So the actual design and all that didn’t bother you?” It did to some degree; it did all of us to some degree because we never played in a skirt fashion. It was all one piece, but it was a skirt on the bottom, there were no legs to go into, but you had to learn how to play with it, especially some of the pitchers when they would begin throwing side arm, it just gets in the way, so each one developed a way in which to fix their uniform either by shortening it a little bit. I had two tucks here and two tucks in the back so that it would fit comfortably. 45:04 They weren’t tight fitting at all because we didn’t like that and we didn’t want that at all. It was heavy, it was like heavy denim and very warm in the summer, in the hot summer, it was very, very warm. Interviewer: “You had talked about the fan of the traveling team, can you recall the fans of the team when you went pro?” 45:34 Yes, because there were fans that came all the time and there were some fans that came once in a while and some of the fans treated some of the ball players very well. A little money under the table or whatever, invited over to their houses for picnics and stuff like that if time provided for that, but we didn’t have too much time for that, but they were very, very good to us. The regulars were very good to us. 46:16 Interviewer: “You mentioned earlier about the traveling team, that it was a mixture of men and women and things, the professional team you played for, where the fans, the majority of them, men or women or what?” A few more women because we were in one place and they get to know you and they have favorites like any team does have favorites and we played excellent baseball. We weren’t just entertainment as we were in the beginning, we still were, but not to the extent, we did what the Brewers do today, but not to that extent. 47:13 Interviewer: “I understand what you’re saying. I think it is really important what you are saying, that you were still entertainment, but now you’re baseball players 11 �and their watching it for the baseball, professional baseball. In your first season you told about that one time that you whacked that ball out there, were there any other particular ones that you can recall that really stick out either on your end or what you saw?” 47:37 It had to do with the pitchers because I was little. I remember Jeanie Marlow in Kenosha, she had a screwball, it’s opposite of a curve and they don’t throw it very often, so anyway about the third batter, it was early in the season and a new team came in and I don’t even know who the team was, so I gave her the number one sign because that’s a fast ball and just plain ball and she shook it off and I was wondering what was going on, so I knew she didn’t want a curve, so I gave her number two and she shook it off and I gave her the change up and she shook it off and I gave her the screw ball and I just went through the whole thing and she kept shaking it off, so I called time and I went to see her and I said, “can you see the signs?” 48:45 She said, “oh yea, I can see the signs ok”, and I said, “can you see me ok?” We’re starting to loosen up and josh one another and I said, “what’s the problem?” She said, “Oh, I just wanted to confuse the batter”. Those are the moments of the different little things that one does in a professional league. Now that might not have happened with another pitcher, with another pitcher it might be something else or I might get a sign from a pitcher instead of me giving a sign to the pitcher. That didn’t happen very often though. 49:33 Interviewer: “When was it, maybe in your first season, or was it later, that you started to think that maybe this was going to be your career or did you even think that?” I never thought it; I was just doing what I loved to do. I just never thought of it. I came back to Milwaukee and I had to work. I did a little bit of coaching with some younger kids and played a little bit of slow pitch baseball. Interviewer: “There’s no comparison.” No, heavens no there isn’t, but that’s what was going on at that time and that went on to become a pretty popular thing, so I was staying in the activity of the game and then I got married and raised children. It isn’t that I didn’t think about playing professional ball, but we never talked about it. Bob knew when I married him, but we didn’t talk and I think that if you ask that question to everyone of us they would say the same thing. 50:53 We just went about our business, it was grand, beautiful and we didn’t have that sense that we were setting standards or overcoming barriers, we just did it. You really didn’t know the historical impact on things until much later and my three boys—I had a ten inch ball that was signed by the teams and it was upstairs, so they used the ball and used my glove, they couldn’t use my shoes of course, and I said, “oh, you can’t use that ball, can’t you see those signatures on there? That’s when I played professional”, and they said, “oh yea mom”. 51:50 Well, that was the opening of saying a little bit about what I did and I said, “well, I played professional ball”, and they said, “yea, yea”, you know how boys are, but they do know now and they’re very proud of that and they relay that to other people very easily if we’re out in a group of some kind. One of them will 12 �say, “oh my mom played pro”, and I say, “here we go”. My husband did a lot of that, but I didn’t do it. I’m learning how a little bit and I pick my times if it’s called for, then I might. 52:55 I don’t just advertise it and I do give a lot of talks to different groups, very different kinds of groups and they love to hear about it and that’s a whole new experience for us again. When you do that you learn the impact of what we did and the style that we did that. 53:33 Interviewer: “I want to get back to the—you’ve gone through your first season now ok? How many seasons did you actually play with that team? You were with Kenosha right? How long did you play with them?” It was two, one season with them and one season before that. Kenosha in 1951 dropped out of the league. Interviewer: “Where did you go from there?” To work. Interviewer: “You didn’t play again?” I didn’t play again. 54:02 It folded, it was terrible and I thought the whole league was folding, but we went until 1954, but it was absolutely terrible. Interviewer: “I guess and I don’t want to go somewhere that you don’t want to go, but what caught me by surprise was that for some reason I thought after Kenosha you went on to play for another baseball team. Why not?” Because the Racine Belles were already out and you had less teams and you don’t need that many ball players and I couldn’t wait, I had to go to work and send money home and stuff like that and I just—it’s over. One has to understand how the move from one thing to another because I did a lot of moving in my life and I learned how to accept something and just move on. 55:20 Interviewer: “Did you see the end coming to the league? You said that in 1951 you out.” A little bit within our own team and near the end we weren’t sure we were going to get paid and that sort of thing and then sometimes the chaperone became the manager and that sort of thing. By that time there wasn’t an over arching league ownership, by that time each team had to take care of themselves and I think that was in 1948 or something like that. Looking back on it, it was pretty much the access and it was going to end and there was some talk about it. 56:17 Interviewer: “You said that you went back to work and you said that very quickly and how difficult was it when it ended? It’s over, it’s ended and you’re going back to work now, what was your reaction?” 13 �You go kick stones, walk the beach and mull things over and cry a little, but one is quickly drawn into a different kind of life style. You can’t stay there very long—I had to go on and put bread in the mouth so to speak. We did have some contact with other ball players and we’re all commiserating about the loss, our joy, our inner joy, play and just learned how to accept it with clenched teeth. 57:36 Interviewer: “I don’t know about you, but for me it really hit me hard because in a sense when you talk about going to slow pitch, that’s a huge drop and that had to be hard to do. I never played professional baseball, but I went through a transition and from playing to doing slow pitch I just went, “huh, what is this?” What it does—that’s part of the transition and it wasn’t what it was called and what we were doing, we were playing. We had the activity, this little child here was out doing something—playing whatever she could play and the joy of the activity and the movement of the body and being able to give expression to the body and I was still able to do that and then I could coach some of that. That’s small little transitions that you don’t know are happening, but they are you could still throw the ball, you could still bat the ball and I could still throw and I’ve never had a sore arm because you take care of yourself and when I throw, I use my body along with it, I’m not just all arm and that’s a thrill. 59:09 It is a thrill to throw the ball because the whole sense of the body is active and that’s what helped me to stop kicking stones. Interviewer: “I’m going to ask you a personal question and if you don’t want to answer it, please don’t, but you mentioned earlier that you told your husband Bob about being a ball player. How did you two meet and did he know you were a ball player? Is there a connection there?” He didn’t know. A fellow came to work where I was working that had worked where he was, at a company that he worked at for thirty six years, and he played golf, they had their own golf team, and Paul and I had already made arrangements to go golfing on Thursday with his wife and they golfed on Wednesday, so he came to work the next day and said, “Do you mind of somebody else comes along to make a foursome? :12 I said, “that’s fine”, so I left work and went home and changed my clothes and met him on the golf course and went to Paul’s house afterwards and had a light lunch and then he was on vacation someplace and about two or three weeks later Paul comes to me and said, “could I give him your phone number?” I said, “is that Bob?” And he said it was and I said, “ok” because I had to know who it was and I made my own decisions around those things. 1:02 On our first date we went to a Packer game, a Packer game here in Milwaukee at the old Marquette Stadium and it was a kind of foggy, rainy night, but the Packers won, it was that Bishops game, and then we met Paul and Fran downtown and we had dinner and danced and all of that. We went together pretty well after that and that was in August and I was engaged in October and married in January. All from meeting on the golf course. 1:52 Interviewer: “When did you tell him about being a baseball player?” 14 �I don’t really remember, but not too long after that because he knew that I was interested in sports and he played softball and I think he got the idea that to get to me we had to participate in sports and I think it just kind of came out in natural conversation. Interviewer: “In the earlier conversation we were having, you said that he liked to talk about the fact that you were playing baseball.” Yes, because I wouldn’t and he was proud of that and most of the players, when they left, didn’t talk about it much. If they did any talking, they did it with each other if they were in contact with one another. 2:57 Interviewer: “I’m so pleased to hear your boys and that they seemed to like the fact that mom played baseball professionally too.” They have come a long way with that. They were very young and I taught them a lot of things. I think they gradually came to understand that I knew something because I was teaching them. They played a little ball, but they liked swimming and auto mechanics and all that sort of stuff and I learned then what was happening to me when I was little. I wanted to do what I wanted to do and each individual boy does, they’re all mechanics and machinists, but they’ve learned to be their own person and they are very different. 3:48 Interviewer: “This is going to be a tougher question digging into your memory, but when did you first start and I don’t need a date or anything, but when did you first start realizing, after the fact, what you had participated in, enjoyed so much, was very proud of, but still didn’t talk a whole lot about, other people were starting to go, “Hey, did you know about that?” When did you first realize that you guys participated in something that you didn’t think was very important at the time, but a lot of other people were?” 4:27 See I, because I had a married name, they didn’t catch up with me for a while and so when I found out that we were in the Hall of Fame. Interviewer: “You didn’t know?” I didn’t know. I was at a house with Marge Peters, who had played before me in 1944, and she didn’t know that I had played because I was in 1950 and 1951, so they were always looking for different ones and a group of us were together at her house and there was a long hallway and there was her wall of honor and my picture was up there and so she told me and she showed me the video from Cooperstown. 5:16 Well, I’ll tell you, I beat my chest. I just beat my chest because “this little one”, which I was called, did something, I said, “I wish my mother was here now” because she really didn’t approve, but she knew that I needed to do those things and we finally agreed to that. 6:06 I think that when you do what you really love to do that it is a gift and when we exercise and grow out of our gifts, that’s where we go in life and there’s a different joy in learning that than there is the playing. The joy is monumentus, it’s like “this little kid did it” you 15 �know because I had to prove myself all the time. 6:52 All the time I was proving myself to myself as well and there isn’t anything better than proving yourself to yourself. It gives momentum to what you do and there’s opportunity then to share that. We now share that with each other. We still can come to reunions and meet somebody you haven’t met before, but you know that they’ve played and we share the same thing, all the ups and downs, ins and outs, hurts and bruises and strawberries and stories. 7:39 We begin to tell our own stories within our group. Interviewer: “You said something earlier about not talking about it, the fact that your husband was very proud of you and did more talking about it than you, because you wouldn’t, your kids finally got to the point of realizing it. Why do you want to talk about it now?” 8:04 It’s valuable. It’s history. If we don’t tell our stories there’s no history to anything if the stories aren’t told and when I give talks, I say that to the mothers, I tell the mothers that they have to support their child in what the child likes to do—they may change their mind in two weeks and they need to tall their story and the grand parents need to love them to pieces because those are the important things for a child when they’re growing up. 8:55 As I said before, it was very difficult growing up, but all of that is who I am and when I began to recognize that playing baseball was a very important part of my living and growing up and who I am and we need to share that with everybody and anybody who wants to know or will listen and that’s important for the other person also. 9:27 Interviewer: “I have two last questions for you. One you answered in part throughout, so I’m just going to ask you this: How did the experience of baseball, pro baseball affect you as a person and how you became the person you are today?” Learning how to get along really. In college I’m a broad field social science major educated in secondary education and I was broad field because of all the things that I was learning, because when you meet at a very young age somebody from New Jersey and somebody from the south, Atlanta or whatever, Cuba, Canada, each one of us teach each other who they are and we begin to look at that and recognize that broadens our horizons of how we view our world. 10:37 The capability then of interacting with people in a situation no matter where we are. I often say in my talks that we were taught how to be professional people on the field and off the field very much so. Interviewer: “You talked earlier also using the word history and as you know, we have Dr. Smither here in the history department at Grand Valley State University and I’m a documentary film maker, so I’m going to ask you this very specific question. Where do you think the All American Girls Professional Baseball League fits in the whole scheme of history?” 11:24 The development of women, to be given the opportunities to do who they are. Every person who is alive has desires and things that they like and dislike and if one only does as one is told or put in a niche or to be seen and not heard we have lost something. That person has lost something, the world has lost something, not just the United States, but 16 �the whole world has lost something because we’re still part of the human race, we’re not just what someone else thinks we are. We have to learn to live out from within instead of having to fulfill somebody else’s ideas of what we are. I’m very strong on that because I had the privilege of living that out. I always say, “I had a health dose of stubbornness”, but that’s what it takes. There are so many facets to the development of the human being that intellectually, physically, emotionally, all of that and the more we do that the more we are who we are and we can interact with other people of the world. I can reach out and I can say, “hi, thank you, good to meet you”, and I do that with the kids and if we don’t do that, what are we? 13:53 It just so happens that through sports, it could have been any sport because most of us played all sports and in that is the interaction between us and if I throw the ball to you and you throw the ball back to me, we have a relationship and if we don’t know how to have relationships with people, oh man, we’re in trouble, we’re in deep trouble if we don’t, that’s what we’re here for. 14:36 Interviewer: “I still didn’t get a complete answer to the history question. Where do you think the, and I love what you just said, don’t get me wrong, but I want to focus on—from your perspective where does the team fit in terms of history? Were do you just a baseball team? Where do you think it fits into all of this?” You know, we grew up in a time when we were at WWII and my husband was in WWII, I had two of my brothers in WWII and we took care of the homefront in the sense of— when we played we made a V from home plate past the pitchers mound, one team here and one team there and that V was for victory, that’s what that was for. We played at Fort Sheridan for the soldiers there and for the navy people at Great Lakes and that was usually in the springtime for exhibitions and things like that. 15:43 We helped to sell war bonds in the sense of our appearances. We didn’t physically handle that, but it was because of whom we were and what we were doing that the war bonds were sold and we saved Aluminum foil and made it into baseballs and threw them around. We were a part of the homefront; I think a very large part of the homefront. To give entertainment where there wasn’t much. You didn’t have much money, there was gas rationing and we took care of the people in that sense that were in a geographical area. Interviewer: “Now that part you did feel at the time, right? You did feel that part?” Sure right. Interviewer: “You may not have understood the significance of the baseball and what it was going to do for future generations, but you did feel that it was part of the war effort like “Rosie the Riveter”, the WACS or the WAVES or anybody?” 17:08 Absolutely, we were very much aware of sort of a role, I would call it a role, that a—that actually helped to keep people who worked very hard and long hours, they had a chance to relax and had a chance to interact with us, and we with them, in a very positive way. We were always in tune with what was going on, always. 17:49 We began every game with the “Star Spangled Banner” and we were very in tune to “God Bless America” with 17 �the fat lady singing. Had to hear the fat lady sing and you know what we did when we traveled? We sang all the time and it was the singing that helped us in the sense of fulfilling what it is that the people at home had to go through and keep the moral—we were moral boosters, I would say for whomever came in contact with us. 18:39 Interviewer: “A couple random questions, any particular incidents, events highlights anywhere in that period of time you were playing that you, for whatever reason, would like to have on the record? Maybe the kids want to hear about or grandchildren would finally hear about. Just something, it doesn’t even have to be baseball related per say, but what in that period of time when you were playing pro ball, any particular things that may have happened that come to your head?” 19:10 Well, there are two things. One thing is the travel and realizing that we are part of a larger thing and the other one is baseball and it has to do with playing in Yankee Stadium. As we were traveling through and came to Newark, New Jersey again and we played in the old Griffith Stadium in Washington, D.C. and that was our first time to play within a major league ballpark, “marvelous”. 19:57 Of course you’re in Newark when you go across the water there and go to Yankee Stadium and that’s where I met Yogi Berra because I was on that side and when he was starting out and I was so excited because I think we parked like two miles away, I left my shoes on the bus and that’s how excited we were to be in Yankee Stadium. To walk inside for the first time as a very young person to see Yankee Stadium, you’re looking around and “oh my goodness”. At that time it was pretty much “the stadium” and to meet the players that we met was a— Yogi asked me if I wanted to use his bat—well, first of all Yogi liked a thick handle and a heavy thing out here, it was a club, and if I had picked it up and swung it, I would still be going around in circles. I saw his wrists and his wrists were really big and you had to have those kinds of wrists to use a bat like that. The whole experience at Yankee Stadium was memorable in terms of baseball. 21:21 Interviewer: “Was part of it because you were professional? You’re not just a fan walking into Yankee Stadium; you’re walking in as a professional into Yankee Stadium.” Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. Like I say, we went to Griffith Stadium first on the way up from town and the difference between a AAA league diamond and major league, there’s no comparison, it’s just awesome and I use that word not casually, it’s awesome. I realized why the Yankees had great catchers—because the distance between home plate and the backstop, you could put a softball diamond in, I mean it was very far. 22:19 You knew you couldn’t have a fat ball, no fat balls in Yankee Stadium because they could take two bases instead of one and I think that’s why they had such good catchers and good hitters. They had catchers that were very good hitters. It was a professional meeting, absolutely, and a lot of the kids that were there still talk about it. We’re proud to have been there and rubbed elbows with the “biggies” and just like young kids now are proud to meet us in that vein. 23:18 When you tell the story, you relive the emotions. 18 �Interviewer: “Well, there are a few of us older “fogies” here that kind of special being here with you too. I’m not quite the older “fogie” yet, I’m not going to admit to it though although—I have a question and I’m sure you’ve been asked it a hundred times, but what did you think of the movie?” 23:48 The movie was good because it was based on fact even though it was a fictional story and that’s Hollywood and Hollywood eyes. A lot of embellishments that we sit and laugh at and I think the only thing we were concerned with was in the beginning, when we saw the move, was a little bit of the language. There wasn’t a lot of that, but we’re thinking of it in terms of showing young people and I think there’s a version out that doesn’t have that in and I’m happy about that because it needs to be in the schools and whether it’s elementary, high school, college or whatever. 24:33 Interviewer: “You will be happy to know that when we first started about doing this project, the Library of Congress project with women’s baseball, when I talked to my students and there was not a lot of knowledge about it, but when you said, League of Their Own, they knew and said, “oh, I loved that movie”, and then I said, “I’m going to meet the real women” and they went “wow”. I look at it from a different perspective, I watched the movie and I love tom Hanks and I love Geena Davis and for me it was more of a Hollywood version, but it did give you the overview of the experience of walking into that ballpark. eeina Davis walks in and there’s all those players playing, it had to be close to being real, oh yeah. 25:32 I thought that Penny Marshall was very astute in how it was put together because when I was in Chicago when we were first asked to come and tryout for six speaking parts and then we went to Cooperstown and I wondered, “how are they going to do this without being trite about things and just throw an idiom in there somehow or another and have it make sense”, but she made sense all the way through, all the way through. There were integral parts of the story that said what it is and what won support for a lot of us was when Tom Hanks is talking to Geena Davis when she’s leaving to go to Oregon. Well, I saw the premieer in Fort Wayne, we had a premiere there and when he said, “of course it’s hard, if it wasn’t hard, anybody could do it”, well there’s another chest going thing, but we were quiet, it was so quiet that you could hear all the motors and stuff underneath that handle everything in that theater. That’s how quiet it was because we were crying. What I said about having to learn to survive and go through a lot of stuff, that was another way of saying that, but a way that was acceptable to other people. It helped us to be acceptable because we went through a lot of unacceptability, but we didn’t let it change us, it helped us to grow. 27:30 Interviewer: I was moved by that too, in fact I teach writing at Grand Valley and I say that about writers, the same thing. “It’s hard work and if it was easy, everybody could do it”. I really felt that too.” If you are doing what you really love to do, you will do it, no matter how hard it is, but that makes it what it is or anybody could do it. 28:05 Interviewer: “That was wonderful, that was wonderful.” 19 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League was started by Philip Wrigley, owner of the Chicago Cubs, during World War II to fill the void left by the departure of most of the best male baseball players for military service. Players were recruited from across the country, and the league was successful enough to be able to continue on after the war. The league had teams based in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan, and operated between 1943 and 1954. The 1954 season ended with only the Fort Wayne, South Bend, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Rockford teams remaining. The League gave over 600 women athletes the opportunity to play professional baseball. Many of the players went on to successful careers, and the league itself provided an important precedent for later efforts to promote women's sports. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-58)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Sports for women World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Oral history Baseball players--Minnesota Baseball players--Indiana Baseball players--Wisconsin Baseball players--Michigan Baseball players--Illinois Baseball for women--United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-10-02 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58_JBaumgart Title A name given to the resource Baumgart, Jacqueline Mattson (Interview transcript and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Baumgart, Jacqueline Mattson Description An account of the resource Jacqueline Baumgart (née Mattson) was born in Waukegan, Illinois. She grew up in Waukegan area and played with the neighborhood boys. She played outfield positions as a kid. In 1942, her family moved to Milwaukee, WI where she played with as a catcher for a few local softball teams. Eventually, she was scouted for the All American Girls Baseball League. At the start of her first spring training she had not been assigned to a team yet. She was eventually assigned to the Springfield Sallies in 1950. She played the 1950 season with them and was then traded to the Kenosha Comets and played the 1951 season with them. One of her main career highlights was having the opportunity to play as a professional in Yankee Stadium. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Baseball for women--United States Baseball Sports for women World War, 1939-1945 Baseball players--Illinois Baseball players--Wisconsin Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-09-25 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-55)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/06956280e40614b43b3b55d5d7f4f929.mp4 f2a6cac73b1e0613cc4deed266d76c37 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ee7204a431cc0405f065e7fe5a88a1d2.pdf fdd86f48f75c774251e7c78d76ebb60c PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW WIMP BAUMGARTNER Women in Baseball Born: Fort Wayne, Indiana, 1930 Resides: Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, August 5, 2010, Detroit, MI at the All American Girls Professional Baseball League reunion. Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, March 23, 2011 Interviewer: “Wimp, can you start by giving us a little bit of background on yourself? Where and when were you born, for instance?” I was born in Fort Wayne, Indiana in 1930 and the last of six kids. The other four were girls and in other words there were five girls in the family and one boy, but he died when he was eleven months old and I was born two months later, so that was it. Interviewer: “What did your family do for a living in those days?” My dad ran a grocery store and, of course, my mom worked in there with him and we lived above the grocery store. They moved a farmhouse over from where they built the Harvester in Fort Wayne. My grandpa moved houses, so he moved the farmhouse over there and my mom was the oldest girl in that family, so my grandpa gave it to the oldest girl, so that’s where we ended up, across from Zollner, Magnavox and Harvester. Interviewer: “Was your father able to keep his store through the thirties?” 56:03 Yeah, we got a lot of trade from the guys in the factory, cigarettes and ice cream. Mom and dad had a restaurant license and they served hamburgers and cheeseburgers. Stuff that—they would come in and get their potato chips and Twinkie cookies and all that good stuff. On the way out of the store they would get an ice cream cone to eat on the way back to the factories and I would have to go out in the yard and clean up their mess. 1 �Interviewer: “So, as long as the factories were going then you had business and you were ok. How did you get involved playing sports?” Well, the neighborhood boys. The boys lived close to where I did and of course I didn’t have any brothers, but we went back to Harvester Park, which was two blocks behind and they had a ball diamond back there and every night we congregated there, but we always had to be home by dark. That was it as far as—and oh, the men from Zollners, when they had the Zollner Pistons professional basketball team, before they moved to Detroit, they use to come over and shoot baskets at my basket with me, so we always had the big ball players coming in the store for their donuts and coffee and all that good stuff. 57:16 Interviewer: “Now, when you were playing—were you playing baseball with the boys or were they playing softball?” We played with any kind of ball we had. Interviewer: “With whatever they had, and did they have regular baseball bats or sticks?” No, my dad had a softball neighborhood men’s team, and Zollner put up a ball diamond across the street from our grocery store, which was between Zollner and Magnavox, and after work, or sometimes at noon, the guys would have an hour for lunch and they would be over there playing softball in the summertime, so I always had to run over and play ball with the big men. They let me bat, they let me run the bases, and I was at the height of my glory. 58:02 I got to know all the fellas that way. Interviewer: “Were there any other girls playing with them?” No, the other girls were outrun, I guess, I don’t know. Interviewer: “So, you’re sisters weren’t interested in this?” 2 �No, they was women or girls or something. Interviewer: “Alright now, do you remember when the women’s baseball team came to play in Fort Wayne?” They came in 1945, and of course, I went out to watch them and also, my phys-ed teacher at Fort Wayne Central, she went out and tried out and I went with her to the tryouts. I was just out there running around because I had no intention of playing with them or anything. We were on our way to the lake, so she went to the tryouts and then we were going to go to her cottage, her mom and dad’s cottage at the lake. So, we were out there playing around and she made the team, she was an underhand pitcher at that time, and I was her student in eighth grade, and of course I tagged her all over, and she was very, not demanding, but I mimicked her like kids do. 59:20 So, I’d go out and watch them play ball and I’d look at that and say, “geeze, I can do that”, you know, a cocky little kid, so when I graduated I tried out with Fort Wayne and, of course, they didn’t need an outfielder at that time, or anyplace else I could play, so they sent me to Chicago and up there, they made me into a catcher, and I was right where I should have been all the time. It felt real good and I got along good and I did pretty good because I went on the tour. Interviewer: “Alright, so you said you tried out for Fort Wayne, was that an individual tryout?” 59:58 No, this was a spring training deal. They put an ad in the paper you know, and the other softball players come and you know, we just performed in front of the manager at that time, that was Harold Greiner then, and he had a bar in town next to the softball diamond. Interviewer: “Do you have a sense of how many of those girls got sent on to Chicago or to the other teams?” 3 �I think there were three of us, and the rest got sent home, but I got to stay, I lucked out. Interviewer: “So, you go to Chicago and what team are you joining there?” It wasn’t a team; it was a whole big tryout. We were at a small hotel at the north end of town. They brought in four Cubans and Lefty Alvarez was one of those Cubans, of course none of them could talk English or anything. All they did was eat scrambled eggs and hamburgers and I don’t know what they drank, but that’s all they ate. I think that’s all they knew how to order. 1:05 Anyhow, from there we left on the tour. We had two teams, so there were a lot of girls there with fifteen or sixteen on a team, Chicago [Colleens] and the [Springfield] Sallies. I forget which team I was with first, but anyhow, midway through June they switched me to the other team, and I don’t remember which one I was with first. Interviewer: “So, you got to catch all the pitchers and not just one team?” Yeah, I ended up catching most all of them, yeah. Interviewer: “Now, as you were going along in that first season, how well were you doing as a player? Were you doing well as a catcher or as a hitter?” I did pretty well at both at that time, of course we were strictly overhand and it was new for the pitchers and new for batters and I was the first one that got to hit a home run on that whole tour. 2:07 I don’t know why I remember those things, but they must be important. Interviewer: “Do you remember who you hit it off of?” Heavens no, that was too long ago. Interviewer: “All right, now what was the daily life like as you were going on tour with these two teams?” 4 �Ok, we were all on one bus and we intermingle because, like I said, some of us switched back and forth on different teams. We got three dollars a day meal money, and usually if we were in a town, we were only there for one night or maybe two, so we always had dirty clothes to do. We always went out and ate at small restaurants, we didn’t have Burger King and McDonalds and that, so they just had mom and pop places, and what we had was trash food because we would very seldom order a meal. 3:06 If we were traveling—one time we were traveling from Saint something in Oklahoma, and we rode until about noon the next day to hit our next stop and it was continually that kind of stuff. We always stayed in air-cooled hotels, which was a nice little old fan up there in the middle of the room just barely going around and that was our air conditioning. Of course, all the windows were always up. We just moseyed around town and didn’t stay in the hotel too much because it was too hot. We did run into colored only drinking fountains and rest rooms and we had never seen that before, and it was in our face almost every day. Interviewer: “So, most of the players were from the Midwest and areas where they didn’t have the—or the Northeast or California?” Yeah, most of us were from the Midwest. 4:07 As I said, the Cubans were there and a lot from Michigan and a few from Indiana. Yeah, we had some from Redkey, down by Indianapolis and Ohio. We had some from Ohio and Illinois and that was about it, the Midwest and we didn’t have hardly anybody coming from somewhere else. Interviewer: “And if they were not coming up from the south, they wouldn’t have seen the segregation and all that kind of thing.” 5 �Mentioning the south and the ball players—every time we went in, I wouldn’t say every time, but a lot of the times we went in, they would ads in the paper that we were coming and they were to come out and tryout. Well, we picked up Sue Kidd in Arkansas, and she showed up with bib overalls on and I don’t want to make fun of Sue because she was a good player, but she was “back woods country, small town hardy”. I think all they had was a post office there with houses around. 5:10 Her dad was a Postmaster, but she showed up with a farmer haircut like the Amish, they put a bowl on their head and cut around it, but after she got on the bus with us , we were in Little Rock, she had to go back to Choctaw and pack her bag, and they brought her down the next day and she got on the bus and went with us. Her dad was all for it, he was a gung ho baseball man from way back. He always had ball teams and three boys. Sue had a couple brothers, Tommy and Buck, and they played good. After the first season I went home with Sue and we rode them hills back there. They were going to have a ball game the night we got there, because we traveled all day and everything, And they wanted Sue to pitch, so Sue pitched and they had—I had to catch because I was with her, and it was a fabulous time. 6:12 They come from out of those hills, I don’t know where those people come from because going down the road you don’t see too many houses. They are back in the hills someplace, but boy when they would have a ball game they would have a couple thousand people there and that was a lot of people back in the hills. Interviewer: “Now, when you were touring you would—you mentioned you were in Oklahoma, you were in Arkansas and those areas, and did you kind of go through the Southeast or Northeast? Where else did you go traveling?” 6 �We got to play in Natchez and New Orleans, in a ball field down there, at Pelican Park I think it was, and that was big time. The manager made sure we went to Antoine’s for dinner one day and we got three dollars a day for meal money and everything in there was about ten dollars and that was big bucks back then. 7:05 We had to go and we were all mad at him because we had to spend all our money on chicken and that was the cheapest thing on the menu. We managed that, we walked through the French Quarter and I mean, we got an education, all the way, you learn geography, you learn everything. You learn how they talk from down there and it was just—it was a good education for a kid the first time away from home. We never got to travel back in those days because our parents never got to go anywhere. We couldn’t because of the grocery store. Interviewer: “How much of an effort did they make to look after you? You had chaperone with you and so forth, but how did they keep track of you and keep you in line?” We had a couple on the tour that would kind of get lost once and a while, you know, run off or do something, but most of us, the first time away and we were all pretty young, so we didn’t get too wild. 8:09 We were half afraid to walk on some of those streets and at night we would play, but sometimes we would play day games, but we never wandered too far by ourselves at all because we didn’t know what was out there. Interviewer: “As you kept going, and get to Louisiana, do you keep going east and go all the way to the east coast?” Yeah, we went to Jackson, Mississippi, Baton Rouge and over to Alabama. We were in Tennessee; we played—the prettiest time I ever saw, even in major leagues, was in Memphis Tennessee. The have that red dirt down there you know, and the white lines on 7 �it and the green grass and the fence around it was green, and I don’t know why, but I sure do remember that park because it was so pretty. 9:11 From there we went back down to Mississippi. We backtracked and we went through Fort Smith Arkansas three times from three different directions, getting around to where we—the man got—a guy by the name of Frank Elve or Helve, he went ahead of us about two days or three days and he would go to these towns and have them book us. Of course he would have to talk to the chamber of commerce in all these towns and everything, but he kept ahead of us and he kept us moving, but glory, we went all over the country in three different times going in different directions. We were in Paris, Texas, Tyler, Texas and one of the big cities I think it was Austin-- Austin, Texas, that’s the capital, we were there because we saw the capital building. One other time, when we first started out, we went to Jefferson Missouri, and in Jefferson City, Missouri, the capital, they have this acoustic room. 10:15 It’s a great big lobby and the ceiling is real high and you could hear somebody whisper clear across the—see, I tell you, we got to see that kind of stuff. Oh, another thing too, in Joplin, Missouri we got to go through the Penitentiary. We were walking through the jail and them guys were just looking at us girls and we were scared to death to be in there. I know they were caged up, but we didn’t know the way they were looking at us bothered us because we had some fifteen and sixteen, I was eighteen, anyhow that was an experience. Interviewer: “Now, you didn’t complete that season with the touring teams?” No, I think it was in Mississippi, they sent a Piper cub down to pick me up and take me back to Peoria. We got back, Lenny Zintak was our manager and he came in the hotel room to tell me, “hey Wimp, I got good news for you. I’m sending you home”, and I 8 �thought, “oh God”, and I was about ready to bawl. 11:21 Then he said, “you have to go up to Peoria and be their catcher”, and I thought, “oh my golly”. We got to Peoria in this little old plane, I don’t even know who the pilot was, anyway, we got there and Peoria was playing over in Fort Wayne, my hometown, so we had to get back in this little old airplane and he flew me over to Fort Wayne. I caught that night and wasn’t introduced to the pitcher because I just got there in time for the game. They had a uniform that didn’t fit me, but I had to go out and catch anyhow, but that was fun. My mom and dad were there and I hadn’t seen them for two months, so they told me I was going to go home and I was homesick like everyone was. We sure did live through some things. 12:08 Then we got on the bus right after that and went back to Peoria and for two days I hadn’t been in a bed. We were traveling all night to get down to Mississippi and then they sent me someplace else up there and then I finally got to Fort Wayne and that was their last game of the series there, so I got back in the bus and we went back to Peoria. That was an all night trip and we got in about nine the next morning—that was living. Interviewer: “Once you got to Peoria, did you get a chance to settle down a little bit?” Yeah, they put me in a house, it wasn’t too far from the ballpark, and I had a room in there upstairs. A man and a woman who had two kids, nice kids, and I was within walking distance, so I could walk to the ballpark. I never did get on a bus and go downtown, I was afraid I’d get lost. Peoria’s pretty big and I didn’t know anything about it. 13:05 Interviewer: “So, were you their regular catcher then for the rest of the season?” 9 �I caught about the first three games and then Terry Donahue and I switched back and forth some. I was new and she didn’t have the arm I had, but she had more smarts than I had because she knew the girls better, so it worked out and I had a nice education on that. Interviewer: “So, you got to learn the hitters and learn what the pitchers could do?” Yeah, you only see then three days and then another team would come in or you would go somewhere else, so that was only for the month of August, because I got there at the end of July and the season was over on Labor Day and that’s when the play offs started. Of course, Peoria wasn’t in the play offs that year, that’s probably why they sent for me, but I couldn’t get them in the play offs, I know that. Interviewer: “So, what happens then when the season ends, that first season?” 14:05 That first season? Well, I didn’t have a car, I didn’t know anybody, so my landlord took me down to the bus station that night and I slept in the bus station that night and I took the bus to go home the next morning. That was an all night—well, we had to go up through Chicago because they didn’t have any buses go straight across the northern part of Indiana, so we had to go to Chicago, stay there half a day and I finally got home. Interviewer: “When you got back home, did you go back to work in the store or what did you do?” I was now eighteen and I could get a job, so I went down the hill to Magnavox. Well, that hill between Magnavox and us was all down hill and that’s where they had the soapbox derby every year. Well, when I was a little kid I had a buggy and I went and took the wheels off the buggy and put it on an ironing board and put an orange crate on 10 �top of that, because we had orange crates from the grocery store, and I made a little—I just steered it by rope with rope on one side and the other. 15:13 Of course back then you could do that. Anytime you could get wood with four wheels on it, you could run it down the hill, so I would play with the boys out there and I could beat them all with my buggyies, but I went down to get in the soapbox derby and they laughed at me and I had to go home and I bawled all the way home. They wouldn’t let the girls do anything. Something else too—in high school—I wanted to take drafting and stuff and I wanted to be an Architect—that was a boys class and they wouldn’t let me in—that’s the story of my life—boys always got in my way, but times have changed. Interviewer: “So, you took a job with Magnavox then for that winter?” Yeah, for the winter Interviewer: “Did you know you were going back to the league the next year?” Yes, Magnavox happily laid you off all summer, so I went back to Magnavox the next fall, and then the third winter I went to Fort Wayne Catering Company and worked there in the wintertime. 16:11 I would save my money to go to college. Interviewer: “So, the second season, how did that start?” Ok, I got to—I went to spring training with Muskegon. Interviewer: “And where was spring training that year?” Cape Girardeau, Missouri—that was—there were four teams down there. The fort Wayne Daisies was one, we were one, well, Muskegon was one. The Fort Wayne Daisies picked up Joan Weaver and the Weaver kids, all three of them and they hung on to them players I guess, they didn’t let them go. Then at the end of spring training I was with Kalamazoo—I keep saying Kalamazoo because Muskegon was with Kalamazoo, 11 �but I didn’t move to Kalamazoo. At the end of spring training they sent me on a South Bend bus. Evidently I was traded to South Bend somewhere in spring training and that’s how I got to South Bend. 17:18 You pack your bag and get on the bus. I looked at them and I didn’t know any of them, so—the veterans don’t talk to the rookies too much, so I just went back and sat back and then they put me in a house there within walking distance of the thing—the ballpark. Interviewer: “ Now, did you actually go to play in Muskegon or were you just assigned to them and then switched to the Blue Sox?” I was assigned to them after Peoria. I don’t know how I got from Peoria to Muskegon. You get a letter and that’s where you go. That’s where you report for spring training and we had to drive down—some of the other players from Pennsylvania and stuff were going through Indiana you know, so we kept track of each other, so I hitched a ride with some of them to get down to Cape Girardeau. Interviewer: “What was Cape Girardeau like anyway?” 18:15 Oh, I don’t know, it was on the Mississippi you know and the train tracks down there— the bog down there and they had a ball diamond down there and everything and I guess it flooded out half of the spring time, but we got inland a little bit more, but not much. We were right down along the river park and that’s where the main part of the town was. It was just a southern town, that’s all I can say, with a lot of railroad tracks and barges going up and down the river and that was something for us to see. Interviewer: “All right, I want to make sure we are kind of following the course of your career here, so you trained with Muskegon, but you did not go to Muskegon?” I went there—no, I got on the bus to South Bend. 12 �Interviewer: “You went to South Band?” Yes, they just told me to get on the bus with South Bend. 19:12 Interviewer: “Did you play for South Band that season then?” Yeah Interviewer: “Ok, was this 1950 now?” Yeah, this was 1950. Interviewer: “Now, who were the really good veteran players for the South Bend team at that point?” They had Marge Stefani, she was a real good player, but right now, I think this was the second year she had become a chaperone, so she was a chaperone when I got there. Bonnie Baker was a second baseman and she was one of the main players and the stars, more or less, of the whole thing. Shirley Stavroff was the catcher, she was the one that made me sit on the bench for a couple years, but she was better. She was a pretty fair hitter and she was from southern Illinois, I think. Jean Faut was the wife of Karl Winsch, and she was probably one of the best, one of the top three pitchers in the league. She had two perfect games in a row and all that good stuff. 20:16 I caught a couple one hitters from her later on when I started catching. When Stavroff left the team and I moved in and I was lucky enough to play the last couple years, 1953 and 1954 as a first string catcher. Interviewer: “Now, before that, would you just rotate occasionally?” Yeah, for a double header and I always caught batting practice to help the pitchers out with target and stuff. I would always hurry up and bat first and then I put my stuff on and start catching the rest. 13 �Interviewer: “Would they use you as a pinch hitter or put you anywhere else?” I pinch hit just a couple times, but they never put me in to pinch run. I just wasn’t that speedy. 21:05 Interviewer: “Were you a good defensive catcher?” Yeah, more so Interviewer: “What did you do to keep the base stealers from going wild? Because there were some women that were really good at stealing bases.” It wasn’t the catchers—how are you going to stop them, it’s the pitcher that they’re running on, but you usually knew who was going to run and who wasn’t going to run. I had a pretty good arm down there and I caught some and some you didn’t get, but it wasn’t too much one way or the other. I would catch some and not catch some. Interviewer: “You were kind of like modern baseball now, you do steal, you do run on the pitcher and if a catcher had a good arm you’re a little more careful.” I would shoot one down to first or third sometimes, just to keep them a little closer because that wasn’t so far away and you could keep them a little more alert to what they’re trying to do. 22:04 Interviewer: “And then did you have to call the games?” Yeah, and you pretty well knew what your pitchers could pitch and you knew a little bit how the batters were standing in the box. You knew some of that stuff and you would pick it up and, of course, Karl knew some, the manager, because he was a pitcher in the big leagues. He didn’t last too long, but during the war he did get to play. I enjoyed 14 �what you really learned about the game that fascinated me. I was one who wanted to know. Interviewer: “That’s good for a catcher.” It helps you out a lot. Interviewer: “You basically played, through your career, with the Blue Sox, or did you?” I finished up with the Blue Sox. Interviewer: “Did you play for anyone else along the way?” They loaned me to Kalamazoo for a month in 1950. Their catcher blew out a knee and I went up there and then they finally got a catcher traded in from another team and I went back to South Bend, that’s where you belonged 23:10 Interviewer: “Now, when you were playing in South Bend, could your family and friends from Fort Wayne come over and watch you?” No, but when we got in Fort Wayne I had the whole family there you know, and friends and stuff. I hit a home run in Fort Wayne one time and that was nice, and I don’t remember if it won the game or not. I didn’t get as many singles as a lot of people got, but I’d just as sooner get a double or I never did get a triple, I don’t think, because I’m not that fast, but I got a few home runs. Interviewer: “You had some power?” Yeah, if I hit the ball it usually went pretty fast from wherever. If it went in high enough, I don’t know, but my favorite place was down third base and the short stop area on the left side of the diamond. Interviewer: “Did you play for any championship teams?” 24:08 15 �Oh yeah, I fell into that, in 1951, 1952, we were loaded with good pitchers, Sue Kidd, Janet Ramsey, and Jean Faut, and I got to catch a little bit on that. In 1951 we won the pennant that year and then we went on to win the little series at the end, and we were champions of everything. Then in 1952 we had some—well, we didn’t have a lot of the old players because twelve of them—quite a few of them, I think six or eight, walked out at the end of 1951 and I got to catch in 1951 and 52. At the end of the season in 1951 and in 1952 we won both of them. Interviewer: “And one of those seasons you only had like twelve players left on your roster?” Yeah, we was the “dutiful dozen”, that’s what the newspaper said, and that was interesting. 25:07 Interviewer: “But you got the job done. All right, now you played until the league ended in 1954. Those last couple years could you tell the league was having trouble?” Yeah, they were having financial trouble. The caliber of the game was still pretty good in 1953, but the older players were getting older and they were leaving. If they started in 1943,44 and 45, a lot of those was getting out at 1950, 52 and 53, so they were bringing in a lot of rookies and people who had never played baseball before, of course you all had to go through that, everybody that got in the league went through that. It was just one of those things and in TV and everything and of course the major leagues took over the television, and people stayed home, they didn’t come out to watch us much. We finished the season, but you that was the end of the thing, we knew we weren’t coming back next year, so everybody took their uniforms or their shirt and jackets and stuff. 26:17 16 �Interviewer: “In the 1953 season, you did go to the championship series again and Grand Rapids won that year, but I think you were the ones that they beat, or else they beat Fort Wayne, I forget.” 1953 wasn’t us Interviewer: “Fort Wayne, all right, I’m getting my league history here—I’ve got to make sure I got that straight, but you had—the Blue Sox had a couple of good years in there, okay. Now, if the league had kept going would you have stayed with it a while longer?” Probably, but I don’t know. See, in 1953 when the season was over, and I knew we would have another 1954 yet. I started college in the fall of 1953 and then in the spring of 1953, when it was time to go to spring training, I saved all my skips in college and I didn’t skip any out, so I could go to spring training, so they let me go to spring training. 27:15 I had to come back and take finals, but I took off after a ball game one night in South Bend and drove down to Indianapolis, where I was going to school, and I got down there and slept a couple of hours and then I had to go and take a couple finals and then a couple in the morning and one in the afternoon. Then I had to drive back up to south Bend and that night I think I had seven errors in that ball game. I overthrew second base, I don’ know, I always threw to first base and I was so sleepy and everything I didn’t know what I was doing. Anyway, that was the end of school for that year and I got out of that all right. Interviewer: “All right, and then you had to get through the last season. where there fewer teams by then or were there other signs aside from smaller crowds? How else could you tell there were problems?” 28:14 17 �I think we started with six teams that season, but somewhere in the middle we lost one of them. I know we ended up with five, but I don’t think for the whole season. It was sad because, you know, I got to play in 1951, 52 and 53 regularly and it takes that long to learn the game and the people and everything else. Just about the time you’re ready to be a good strong veteran for four or five more years, four or five more years wasn’t there. That was sad, but you know, you met an awful lot of nice people and I can go all over the country now and visit former players for South Bend or any place since we have these reunions and things. 29:03 Interviewer: “Now, you went back to college after that was over and what did you get your degree in?” The same thing all the rest of them got it in. No, I ended up—I can teach English, I can teach biology, I can teach physical education, genetics. I took a lot of biology because I was thinking of going into being a doctor, but then I figured I wasn’t that smart. By that time I had a lot of biology, vertebrae zoology, en vertebrae zoology, so I ended up being a biology teacher, phys ed, health and a little bit of science teacher. Interviewer: “Where did you teach?” I started out in a little place outside of Elkhart. I went back up to live in south Bend because some the old players, Blue Sox, had a basketball team and I wanted to play a couple of years of basketball, so I taught in a little country school in Jimtown, we were the “Jimtown Jimmy’s”, but it was a country school and there were very nice families there, you know, just farm families. 30:23 We were just on the south end of Elkhart where the railroad went through and some of the colored lived on the south of the railroad, so we had those players, and those kids, along with the white kids, I had some 18 �real good teams, track teams, volleyball teams and basketball. We had a good little school, and I enjoyed that a lot. Interviewer: “Did you stay at that one school or did you move?” I was there for twelve years and then my dad died. He went to bed one night and never go out, and then I went back to live with my mom because I didn’t want her to have to move and everything, and then I worked at Leo High School in--just east of Fort Wayne. 31:09 My old superintendent in Jimtown now the superintendent down in East Allen, so he called on the phone up there during the daytime and the office lady answered and when he was in Jimtown he was the principal and then superintendent , well she recognized his voice on the telephone, so she came down to get me to tell me I had a phone call, so I went back, walking through the hall, and I said, “Who is it?”. She said, “It’s Roberts”, and I said, “What does he want?” She said, “you just tell him you can’t come”, so he wanted me to come down to East Allen, so I ended up in East Allen, and it was closer to home. I could drive every day. Interviewer: “Now, as you were teaching and coaching and doing all of this, did people know that you played professional baseball?” Yeah, because some of them remembered because Elkhart’s just a little ways from South Bend and Mishawaka, so they use to come and watch us play. 32:10 Then when we went back, we still had a couple games in South Bend because every year or two they would all get together and put on a little exhibition for the local people you know, because it was the newspapers that would kind of want us to do some of that stuff. Of course one night half of Jimtown came over to watch because they had seen some of it before. I just had a good life all the way through. 19 �Interviewer: “You become an educator, and you’re teaching in a period when they start to open up things in schools for women to do sports and this kind of thing, so were you connected with that?” Yeah, we started out; of course half the principals didn’t want the girls playing anyhow. When I started teaching, the first thing I said to myself, I said, “these kids are going to play”, so I had a real good principal though, that Mr. Sheets, he was the one that hired me, and he had three daughters and that helped. 33:16 He left and became the superintendent and then I had Mr. Jones and he had two daughters and that helped. I got those kids in the gym playing volleyball games and basketball games with just the little local schools around. We had maybe six games a year is all to start with and we were out there playing. I had a couple friends that I said we played basketball in South Bend and they were school teachers, so we played—I played Cynthia Sawyer’s kids in south Bend, they were on the west side of town and they would drive over. This is one funny thing, Cynthia Sawyer came over to have a track meet with her kids and a lot of them were colored and some whites, and then I had the same thing, so they came over in two cars. 34:08 All these kids getting out of these two cars and my kids were sitting out there in the grass waiting for them you know, because we had already warmed up somewhat, and those kids are getting out of the car and my kid, half of them were colored and these other guys got out of the car and they said, “my God they’re all black, what are we going to do?” They were scared seeing these city colored kids coming out there, but we beat them. You know, it’s funny how they acted sometimes. One time I had them up to the lake, my GAAA kids, and half of them were colored and they were sitting up there in the yard under the trees and the other white kids were out there on the piers and I said, “How 20 �come you guys are not out there swimming in the sun?” She said, “We don’t want to get a sunburn”. Well here dumb me, I didn’t even know they get sunburns, so it was an education having them and they were just good kids. I can’t believe how—see, I just lucked into all that stuff. 35:06 Interviewer: “Did you coach girls teams or women’s teams? As you were saying, the women were going to play did you do both? Did you coach boys teams as well as women’s teams?” No, you couldn’t get into the boys world, that’s all there was to it, no way under the sun. I had to fight to get the gym once a week afterwards. Then we had a bowling league and we went into town and went bowling, the girls. Then the boys were mad because they couldn’t go in and go bowling, because I wasn’t going to take them, they were boys. I’d take the girls because they wouldn’t let us in their gym; I’m not going to let them in the bowling alley. Interviewer: “Did this get a little easier over the course of time? Did people get used to having girls play and this kind of stuff?” Yeah, it took a while though, but finally you know, the kids I had come back from college and stuff and they had been playing a little bit in college and it just grew out. 36:09 Another thing, they finally got a women’s advisory board down at the IHASSA down in Indianapolis, well we had to run for that, so I talked to my principal about it and he urged me to go into it and to write a letter to all the principals around the area. Well, I did what I was told and I got voted on down there, so I was on that first advisory board and I think I was on it about six years or so. They finally made this one lady a cocommissioner, now that helped and now the girls were ready to play and this was in the 21 �late sixties probably that we finally go t noticed down there in Indianapolis. We were at the GAA was kind of the statewide and we had our own tournaments and then the state finally recognized that too. 37:05 They couldn’t hide it too much longer, so then title nine came in and we were off and running. Interviewer: “So when you were playing, did you think of yourselves at all as sort of pioneers or people who were opening things up for women?” We didn’t know we were pioneers until fifty years later. A pioneer only means you’re old I guess, I don’t know. Interviewer: “It means you’re first, but it does seem there’s a pretty good continuity here. You’re playing in this women’s league and you come back and you stay connected with sports and as a teacher you’re actively involved in getting more things for girls to do and building that up, and that’s drawing on your own experience at least knowing they can go do it.” Girls can do anything; just turn them loose, that’s all you got to say. They’re intelligent you know and they don’t take much guff from anybody anymore. They’re raised different today and it’s a different world. Just think, I got to be part of it. 38:20 Interviewer: “Now, do you look back over that whole experience of playing professional ball, what do you think the main effects of that were for you? What did it do for you?” It opened you up a little bit to fight for what you wanted. I was lucky enough, I had good principals and I was surrounded with good people. A lot of athletic women—you don’t know how to say all that stuff. I think it was the right time or I never would have gotten into that and if they didn’t move me into Fort Wayne I probably wouldn’t have even 22 �known they existed. I lucked out there and I happened to be the right age. I wasn’t too smart, but I sure knew when to take advantage of something. 39:16 Interviewer: “You managed to become a science teacher. I think you’re pretty qualified and smart. I would be willing to bet that anyway. Anything else you would like to add to the record here before we close out the interview?” Interviewer: “Were you connected at all with the League of Their Own movie and the beginnings of the players association?” Yeah, we got that notice in a newsletter, I think, that they were going to do all that stuff and we just needed—a couple of us decided—Sue Kidd was still in South Bend, she went along and Jean Harding went, a couple of them around. You got in a car and went to New York. Interviewer: “Cooperstown?” Yeah, but first you had to go to Chicago. There’s one good thing about that, in Chicago, I was trying to think of the area where we were. 40:18 Interviewer: “You were in Skokie.” Yeah Skokie. In Skokie we were out to this ball diamond and we all had red shirts on with big numbers on them you know, and everything and we were all working out, running around the field’ hitting fly balls, and throwing and catching and this big bus pulls out there along the side over there. Of course we had a fence around there and this big bus comes and it stops out there and these big guys, big burly guys, get off that bus and here comes a couple other women off, but they were far away, and these guys walk way around the outfield and they just stand out there. 41:08 We were watching them and wondering what they were there for and here comes Madonna walking down off the 23 �sidewalk and of course we were all looking at her. Rosy O’Donnell was there and she was already out there talking to us and everything. Gina Davis, we didn’t see her there. She never was up there. They had the little sister though, Lori Petty, she was there, so that was our introduction to-Interviewer: “Hollywood” Yeah, they came in and landed at the airport and she got off there and I guess nobody was supposed to know she was in town and she had all this rig-a-ma-roll with her, but she made a nice entrance. She was a pretty good ball player too, I mean, she was one of the better ones. Interviewer: “Did you have to teach her a lot?” Not all that, you could see she’s athletic when you see her dance and that and she could do about anything she wanted to. 42:14 Interviewer: “Some of the other players talked about going there and they said she was in good shape, but she didn’t know how to play ball, but she learned and she worked at it.” She wasn’t too bad and probably the best one, because she use to play some, was Rosy O’Donnell, but Madonna wasn’t too bad though. Interviewer: “You also went to Cooperstown and were part of the stuff they filmed there too?” Yeah, we went there and there was a thing that happened there the last night at Cooperstown. Penny Marshal wanted to finish up shooting, so we were there until about four or four thirty in the morning and we had to walk down this ramp you know, and this little room, they had a glassed in case right in the middle of the room, so you either had to 24 �go around to the right or the left as you came down the ramp. We came down that ramp I bet twenty-four times. Penny had to keep reshooting everything, so I always went around the back of the little ramp, so I wasn’t in the way of the film too much because I didn’t want to be--anyway I’m going around that back. 43:22 Anyhow, Gina Davis, the old Gina Davis, that took her place was going to walk around that way also, and she would see her sister on the other side and they would finally embrace when they saw each other, in the movie stuff. Well anyhow, were walking around this little thing and then we walk back up again and after she’d get partway up there, she had a little flask under her arm and she’d take a little nip out of that flask and then we’d walk down that ramp again and around that thing and sometimes if she had to hesitate back there she’s take a nip from the flask. I wasn’t too far behind her and thinking, no wonder we’re down here until four thirty in the morning. She had to empty that thing almost because she was real busy on it. 44:15 She was something else, I’ll tell you. She tried to catch a ball out there and she broke a fingernail and then she had to stop and the whole film would have to start over on that. She should have been the whole movie herself, I’ll tell you. That was the old Gina Davis. That was funny. Nobody else probably told you that one. Interviewer: “What did you think of the movie?” I thought it pretty well had a lot of truth in it, but a couple things—they never fell over the fence and came up with a hot dog in their mouth or something like that, but that was Pepper Pare, Pepper pare made some of that stuff, but that’s Pepper Pare, she always had to have her two cents worth in. There’s a lot of them that got to have their two cents worth in, but that makes everything. 45:15 Interviewer: “What do you think they did a particularly good job with?” 25 �In the movie, it was a pretty fair story because that little boy that was in the movie, we had a little boy on our team. Jean Faut had a little boy, little Larry, that traveled with us and we would pick on him somewhat, we tried not to because if you were picking on him the other girls would tell you to quit, but we teased him, and Jean, she really, she kept her cool, picking on her kid, but he was a nice kid and Jean was—you couldn’t beat Jean Faut, that’s all there was to it and Karl was alright. Sometimes it wasn’t so good having your husband managing you, and Jean had some hard times with that, but hey, that’s life. When you’re that close together all the time, twenty-four hours a day. 46:16 Interviewer: “It really does sound like a great experience.” Your whole life, you sit down and—I never talked about my whole life before, but the best part of it, one of the best parts, was playing ball. You can’t beat playing ball and meeting the people that you meet and learning the geography of the country and just doing what you could do. It’s a free country and you could just do anything. Nobody can stop you if you don’t want them to. Interviewer: “Now you get to come back to these reunions and having been through my second one now, they are really something. Had you been going to the reunions since the beginning?” I hit everyone, and one year we had one—we had a meeting in St. Petersburg and the same year we went to Cooperstown. I was all ready—I sent my money in down there to Florida and then two of the people I was going to go to Florida with decided they were going to Cooperstown. 47:23 Well, there goes my ride down to Florida, so I rode with them and went over to Cooperstown and that’s why I was in Cooperstown when they 26 �were doing some of that, but that was all right. I wasn’t on the board yet or anything, things that didn’t bother too much. Interviewer: “Unless we got something else here guys, we are done. We are done and thank you very much for coming and talking to us.” Thank you 27 �28 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League was started by Philip Wrigley, owner of the Chicago Cubs, during World War II to fill the void left by the departure of most of the best male baseball players for military service. Players were recruited from across the country, and the league was successful enough to be able to continue on after the war. The league had teams based in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan, and operated between 1943 and 1954. The 1954 season ended with only the Fort Wayne, South Bend, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Rockford teams remaining. The League gave over 600 women athletes the opportunity to play professional baseball. Many of the players went on to successful careers, and the league itself provided an important precedent for later efforts to promote women's sports. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-58)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Sports for women World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Oral history Baseball players--Minnesota Baseball players--Indiana Baseball players--Wisconsin Baseball players--Michigan Baseball players--Illinois Baseball for women--United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-10-02 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58_MLBaumgartner Title A name given to the resource Baumgartner, Mary Louise "Wimp" (Interview transcript and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Baumgartner, Mary Louise Description An account of the resource Mary Louise "Wimp" Baumgartner was born in Fort Wayne, Indiana in 1930. She played in the AAGPBL from 1949 to 1954 as a catcher for Peoria and South Bend. She went to college in the off season, and after the league folded she became a teacher and coach for girls' athletic teams, and was actively involved in the promotion of girls' sports in Indiana. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Baseball for women--United States Baseball Sports for women World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Baseball players--Illinois Baseball players--Indiana Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-08-05 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-55)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4405ad33984837aada3026c8f21be555.jpg b4b61409d61431905716adca72c36d06 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BavingerWilliam Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Bavinger, William Description An account of the resource William Bavinger, Business and Facilities Management Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b5a9e2b202020ede11fb9a565b45003f.jpg d2ef660f652451f7e8d799ba526c360d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BaxterPoage_Photo01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Baxter, E. Poage Description An account of the resource E. Poage Baxter, Continuing Education Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College administrators Universities and colleges – Faculty Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c05141e419bf9609a881150351346efd.jpg 57bfc0e8c4c17ff65bda67e4135bbc3b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BaxterPoage_Photo02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Baxter, E. Poage Description An account of the resource E. Poage Baxter, Continuing Education Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College administrators Universities and colleges – Faculty Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f8c5d05afc864365d0c76b3a8ec25cd0.jpg 014c0f791f7bb4a83479d70e581861d0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BaxterPoage_Photo03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Baxter, E. Poage Description An account of the resource E. Poage Baxter, Continuing Education Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College administrators Universities and colleges – Faculty Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng