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                  <text>During the 2024 Winter semester at GVSU, the Kaufman Interfaith Institute and Interfaith Photovoice hosted nine students from different religious, spiritual, and secular backgrounds for a semester-long cohort centered on storytelling. By using predominantly mobile-phone photography, these students explored what it meant to believe and belong on campus and in the greater West Michigan community. This project was designed to help capture their experiences and stories, to enable them to find their voice through photography. The cohort culminated in an exhibition displayed on multiple GVSU campuses and curated by the students around three self-selected themes: Religious &amp; Spiritual Practices, Barriers to Belonging, and Creating Welcoming Spaces.</text>
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                <text>This is the concrete walkway that connects the English buildings to the rest of campus. I make use of it almost every weekday as I shuffle between my English classes in Lake Huron Hall and my history classes in Mackinac. It's invaluable to me, but it also kind of sucks. In the winter it becomes dangerously slippery and, with as crowded as it gets, I imagine many struggle to even make use of it</text>
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                <text> I know I did when I walked with a cane for months after breaking my leg. It's good and I'm glad it exists, but it could be made much better and more accessible, which about sums up my thoughts on GVSU and its campus in general.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veteran History Project
Emerson Barrone
(00:49:36)
Introduction (00:00)
Childhood and Pre-War (00:10)
•
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Born November 5, 1922 in Hubbardston, MI
Remembers playing with the neighbor children
Attended same school in Hubbardston for all years of schooling.
Father was a farmer and a roofer. He was a roofer until World War II, and then
became a farmer. (06:08)
Was an only child.
Graduated High School in 1940 (09:00)
Was driving his car between Hubbardston and Detroit when he heard about Pearl
Harbor. (09:51)
After High School, stayed with uncle in Detroit and worked first at Ford, and then
at Stinson Aircraft. Was a welder there for about a year and a half. Also worked at
Ford in Ypsilanti, MI. (10:50)

Enlistment, Training and Active Duty (12:30)
•
•
•
•

•
•
•
•
•
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•
•
•

Went into the Army on February 6, 1943. (12:30)
Was Drafted. Got a postcard in the mail notifying him he was drafted (13:50)
Went to Fort Custer for three weeks, and was then shipped out to Fort Leonard
Wood. Stayed there for one full year to be a medic and ambulance driver. (15:00)
December, 1943 he was shipped to England. Was transported on a French ship
that was converted to a troop transport. Was followed by submarines on the trip
over. (16:15)
Landed at Liverpool, England. Lived in a Quonset hut while there. (17:58)
Landed in Normandy on D-Day plus one. Landed at Utah beach with an
ambulance that they had to take inland. (20:30)
Went on into France and remembers a man with a parachute hanging on the belfry
of a church.
The people there did not really like them
Went on then to Carentan. (24:10)
Job was to wait for the call to go into a battle and bring men back, but never went
into a battle.
Was in the Battle of the Bulge. Was on the edge of the battle, but never went in.
(25:20)
Came pretty close to the German lines on several occasions.
He was waiting to go into Berlin when he heard that the War was over (28:00)

�•
•
•

The ship that he was on crossed the Atlantic on its own, not in a convoy.
The worst experience he had was his friend was riding a 2 ½ ton truck, and the
truck hit a mine, and he was nearly taken in half. He lived for 24 hours. (45:55)
Was shot at a couple times, but nobody ever got shot (47:10)

Post-War (29:50)
•
•
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•
•
•
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•

Returned home on December 2, 1945 (30:00)
Had 80 points
Landed at Fort Dix, New Jersey, shipped from there to Camp Atterbury, Indiana.
(30:35)
Got married in 1954.
Got laid off from Real Motor Company in Lansing a couple days before he got
married.
Started in Saint Johns, MI working for Federal Mogul as a Quality Control
person, and then was transferred to Mooresville, IN.
Wife worked for various companies in Indiana and Michigan.
Had one child, a boy, born on December 4, 1955.
Became a mason in 1956. (40:20)

�</text>
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                  <text>The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.</text>
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Boring, Frank</text>
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                <text>Emerson Barrone was a medic and ambulance driver in World War II. He was drafted in 1942 into the Army and spent time training in Missouri. He was then shipped of to England at the end of 1943. He landed on Utah Beach one day after D-Day. His job was to drive ambulances, and he was on the fringes of several major battles, including the Battle of the Bulge, but he never got into the fighting.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Veteran: Robert Barrowcliff
Interviewer: James Smither
Transcribed by Gabrielle Angel
Interview length: 1:01:00
00:00:04
I: We are talking today with Robert Barrowcliff from Castle Rock, Washington, and the
interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project.
Now, begin with some basics on yourself, like where and when were you born?
V: I was born 1947 in Silverton, Oregon.
I: And did you grow up there?
V: I grew up in the state of Oregon. I went through all of those schools, grade schools.
I: What was your family doing for a living while you were a kid?
V: My dad was a Union Oil driver for delivery of gasoline and oil throughout the Santiam
Valley.
I: Okay, where did you go to high school?
V: Where did I? Stayton, Stayton High.
I: Now, what part of the state is that in?
V: It‟s just east of Salem, about eighteen miles.
I: Kind of western Oregon.
V: It‟s up in what‟s called the Santiam Valley, which is famous for logging.
I: Okay, and what year did you finish high school?
V: 1965.
I: What did you do after you got out of high school?
V: I went to Oregon State for a couple of terms, decided that wasn‟t for me, so I ended up going
to Smacada [?] College, and I graduated in electrical engineering.
I: So, that was more of a technical school or a trade school kind of thing?
V: Yeah. It was a two-year technical school.
I: Okay, so do you finish that in ‟67? ‟68?

�V: That would have been ‟68.
I: Yeah, yeah, okay so you had time to go to Oregon State. Okay. While you‟re in college, are
you aware that Vietnam is going on? That Uncle Sam might want you?
V: No, I was, we were working construction in the summer time, and when I was going to
college, I was working full time, so I didn‟t have much time. The year that I failed to register
back to college, I immediately got my draft notice.
00:02:12
I: Alright, so Uncle Sam was keeping track of you.
V: Yes, they knew when I wasn‟t going to be in school.
I: So, when was that that you had to-?
V: That was in the summer of 1968.
I: And when did you report for duty?
V: I reported for duty I think on election day, 1968. It was November 2 or 3.
I: Okay, now, where do you go for Basic Training?
V: I went up to Fort Lewis and they gave me an option, being that it was November, Fort Lewis
had not great weather, but I was used to that. I could stay at Fort Lewis or I could go to Fort
Polk, Alabama. I chose Fort Polk.
So, they flew me down to Alabama and that‟s where I did my basic training.
I: Alright, can you describe a little bit what that was like? When you arrive at Polk, what kind of
reception do you get there?
V: The reception was fine. It was the real strict military life. You had the drill sergeants escorting
you around. But I didn‟t have too many problems. In there some place we were tested for
aptitude. I knew that I was going to get drafted, so prior to being drafted, I was taking some
flight lessons. I learned to fly in what must have been the early part of „68.
I: Just fly like a little propeller airplane kind of thing?
V: Fixed-wing plane.
I: Fixed plane, yeah.
V: So, I had some aptitude towards their tests. And apparently, I came out of the test alright
because they told me that I didn‟t have to go to ATT, ATII: AIT.
V: AIT. I went from there to the basic flight school.
00:04:11

�I: But you did go through the basic training at Fort Polk first. That‟s the one everybody gets.
V: Yes, I think that was eight weeks.
I: What are you spending your time doing during that eight weeks?
V: Exercise and running. [Laughs] That was it, just basic training. We did some escape and
evasion maneuvers, some crawling under concertina wire through the dirt.
I: You said, I guess, with the kind of work you were doing, you were probably in pretty good
shape at that point?
V: Yeah. I was in pretty good shape.
I: I figured you might be because of what you were getting into. Were there other guys that you
were training with that were having more trouble?
V: I can remember that one day we had to run a mile. This was without packs. It was combat
boots and whatnot. And, we were supposed to do it in six minutes. I think I did mine in six
minutes and ten or fifteen seconds, and I was the second person. That‟s where I learned a life
long lesson: don‟t come in first, and don‟t come in last. [Both laugh] You want to be in the
middle somewhere, because the drill sergeant made a point that since everyone was so slow, he
said to the first guy, “Show them how to do it.” And he had to run another mile.
I: Were there guys that had trouble with the discipline part?
V: No, I don‟t think so.
I: Okay. So, basically just went along with it the best they could.
V: Yeah, nobody had any…
I: Well, I ask because sometimes people talk about misfits or people who made all kinds of
trouble, that didn‟t know their left foot from their right, but if you didn‟t see it, you didn‟t see it.
00:06:03
V: Well, I don‟t remember it. It didn‟t stick in my mind as very important at the time.
I: So, you do this for, you know, eight weeks. At what point do you find out what your options
are?
V: I think that we made applications at some time during that basic training, we took aptitude
tests of some kind, we took tests, and some time during the end I‟m sure I was told that I was
going to flight school in Mineral Wells, Texas.
I: So, is that your next stop now?
V: Yeah. And that was helicopter flight school, it wasn‟t fixed-wing. Where that, how that got
determined, I‟m not sure.

�I: Well, the Army needed a lot of helicopter pilots, not as many fixed-wing flight planes, more
than likely.
V: Right.
I: For the Army, would that just be observation planes? Transports, maybe?
V: They had some corporate jets to fly, but I think the attitude was that if you knew how to fly a
fixed-wing, we want to teach you how to fly, we don‟t want you to bring your knowledge in, so I
knew a little bit about fixed-wing, so they put me in rotary-wing. Those who knew rotary-wing
they put in fixed-wing.
I: Okay, they‟re for the Army, then. Alright, so it was rotary-wing for you. Where in Texas is
Mineral Wells?
V: West of Fort Worth, maybe 50-75mi.
I: And what does the training program actually consist of?
V: We started off with a helicopter that was a TH-55, so that was a trainer. And that‟s what we
went to. We had an instructor that just took us out, and we started to learn how to fly.
I: Did they give you any classroom stuff first?
V: Oh, yeah, we had lots of classroom. Lots of classroom. Every day we had classroom. And,
I‟m going to guess that each day we had one hour of flight time. At the end of a week or so…
That was an eight-week course.
00:08:14
I: Do you stay with the trainer or do they move you up?
V: No, we stayed with the trainer at that place. Then we went to, at some point, after we got out
of the basic helicopter, the TH-55, we started flying Hueys. Again, we were with a trainer. Each
instructor had two or three students. And you would fly in the Huey, all the students would be in
the helicopter, a couple in the back seat watching, and then we would just rotate.
I: Describe for an outside audience the difference between the trainer and the Huey.
V: The trainer, the TH-55, it‟s like a little mosquito. Little tail boom, and a little bubble up-front
room, just room enough for two people. The UH-1, there are several models. There‟s a pilot and
a co-pilot and in the backseat, you could put maybe five people, in the back seat. They were
made, that was the primary helicopter in Vietnam, the UH-1.
I: And was it more powerful?
V: Yeah, because you could carry a lot more.
I: Was it hard to fly from the trainer, or did it flow pretty naturally from one to the next?

�V: It flows pretty naturally. There‟s a lot more to it. They‟re turbine engines compared to a
reciprocating engine. You learned hand-eye coordination in basic training for a helicopter.
00:09:58
I: Now, as you were going through the different stages with these different kind of helicopters,
were there people in the class dropping out or were you all staying with the program?
V: We were all staying with the program.
I: Okay. When you‟re learning to fly the Huey, are they teaching you the things you might
actually do with it if you were in the field?
V: Yep. We had simulated landings that we would go out and land in formation. We never did
carry troops or anything like that, but we did a lot of LZ landings.
I: And did you work on maybe some hoverings so you could lower things?
V: Yeah, we did a lot of that. You do a lot of hovering. You learn to do a lot of things a basic
helicopter does. One of the hardest things you learn is how to get it off of the ground and keep it
in the direction you want it to be in. It wants to spin around the rotor, so that‟s the control
problem.
I: With the Huey, how long do you think you spent working with that?
V: Well, the TH-55, when I first learned to fly, I think I flew it like six hours, and after six hours
I was soloed. That was an exciting experience. Nobody had any problems. Everybody soloed just
fine; we never had any crashes. Nobody ever bent anything. In the Huey, you don‟t solo in a
Huey. There‟s always two people. That‟s different from the TH-55, where sometimes you‟re the
only one in it. I can‟t remember how many hours I spent in the Huey. Fifteen or twenty, maybe?
00:12:03
I: From there, did they graduate you to something else?
V: From there, out of the class – I can‟t tell you how many were in our class- from there they
made a selection, where I think there were three of us that went on to Chinook school.
I: Describe for the outside audience what a Chinook is.
V: A Chinook is a tandem rotor, two rotors, two engines, and it is a troop or cargo carrying
helicopter. We could carry 30,000 lbs. I put big trucks inside the Chinook. I‟ve carried water
buffalo. I‟ve carried swing loads; I‟ve carried a lot of those. In the military, what they end up
doing is carrying ammo or cannons.
I: They are hanging below the helicopter instead of being inside of it.
V: You can do both. Sometimes the load were internal loads. We also had what we called bus
runs, which is just what it says, moving people from one town to another town just because the
military is moving around, people go on R&amp;R, so it could be a bus stop.

�I: Was flying the Chinook noticeably harder to fly than flying the Huey?
V: There‟s more to it, because in the Huey you almost always had internal loads, so you either
put things inside. Now, the Huey is capable of external loads, but very rarely. It was mainly a
troop movement device. The Chinook is made for cargo.
I: So, the big thing with the Chinook is not because it has two engines and rotors to deal with, as
it is that the load may be down there someplace.
00:14:00
V: The load‟s swinging around. The load dictates how fast you can go, your elevation, etc. You
don‟t know how much that load weighs until you pick it up, how much power it‟s going to take.
So, you have to calculate if you‟re going to a higher elevation, and you‟ve got all the powering in
it just to get it off the ground here, and you‟re going to a higher elevation. You‟re not going to
have enough power to get it there unless you burn off fuel, so you have to make some
judgements
I: So, you‟re adding to the load calculations and doing a lot of things while you fly.
V: Right.
I: Now, did you do all of that at Mineral Wells, or did they move you from base to base?
V: No, that was in Fort Rucker, Alabama, the Chinook training.
I: Alright.
V: That was, I think that was eight weeks also.
I: Do you have a sense of roughly when you finished at Fort Rucker?
V: Roughly thirty days before I went to Vietnam.
I: When do you go to Vietnam?
V: I was in Vietnam in, I think, January of 1970.
I: So, a year of helicopte bases. It takes a while. There‟s a series of training stages, and you
spent, basically, most of 1969, then.
V: Much of it, yeah.
I: Pretty much the whole year, you‟re kind of in training in one place, and then you get moved to
another. Now, when you were in all of these different helicopter training schools, what was daily
life like?
V: Once we got to Chinook school, we were enlisted until we went through basic flight training.
Then they made us E5s automatically. Once we got through that school, the Hueys, I think we
were officers, warrant officers.
00:16:07

�I: Now, explain what a warrant officer is.
V: A warrant officer is a non-commissioned officer. In my opinion, it‟s the ideal officer because
you‟re not attached to a cannon or an infantry troop. You‟re a pilot, in that sense, and that‟s your
responsibility. You didn‟t have responsibilities for other groups of troops.
I: You‟re not, in this case, commanding peopleV: Correct.
I: You just have a particular job. On the other hand, you‟re at a level where you don‟t have to do
a lot of the routine duties an enlisted man would do.
V: Yes.
I: In general, the military uses these people for specialized skills or talents. I guess helicopter
pilot is one of those.
V: If you‟re a commissioned officer, you had to be either infantry, or artillery, or some other
such thing, so you had to go through a whole schooling for that, where the warrant officers did
not. We were flight.
I: So, you didn‟t have to do any kind of specialized, “How to be a warrant officer” school. You
just did your specialized training and did that instead.
V: Correct. There was none.
I: Alright. Now, would they let you go into an officer‟s club?
V: Yes.
I: So, you did get that-.
V: We were officers, had the full privilege of the officers. We were the lowest rank of all of the
officers, but we had no problem.
I: Now, before you go to Vietnam, did they give you any kind of preparation for it?
V: No.
I: Okay. So, as you go along, there‟s nobody telling you that this is what it‟s like in Vietnam or
here‟s what to expect?
V: All the training was, flew into landings, the training was to simulate the kind of landing that
you would do in Vietnam.
00:18:00
I: But they aren‟t teaching you about the country or the culture or anything about Vietnam?
V: No.

�I: Now, you‟ve finished a lot of the sort of training towards the end of 69. Did you get to go
home for Christmas?
V: Yeah, we had thirty days after the Chinook training at home. Then, I left.
I: Did you think or worry at all about the prospect of going to Vietnam, or did you take it in
stride?
V: Well, I was married when we were in Mineral Wells, we were in basic, and I couldn‟t live
with my wife there. Once we got to Alabama, Fort Rucker, I could live off-base with my wife.
So, you have those apprehensions. It was hard to leave. My wife and I drove to Boise, I got on a
plane, waved goodbye, and didn‟t know if I was coming back or not.
I: What was your start off point in the States? Where did you leave from?
V: We few out of Boise, flew into San Francisco or LA, I forget which.
I: San Francisco was the most common place to send people out of. Was there a big depot in
your report too and then did they assign you?
V: No, I don‟t know recall any of it, just that I had a flight number. So, we were just civilians,
essentially. We got on and ended up in Vietnam.
I: So, you were not on a flight that was all military personnel? They chartered a lot of
commercial jets to steward people over, so you might have been on a regular flight with
stewardesses and stuff.
V: That may have been where we were all headed for, but we weren‟t in uniform.
I: Okay. It could have actually been a civilian plane at that point.
V: It must have been. It must have been a civilian-chartered plane. We were all dressed in
civilian clothes and just dropped off in-.
I: Did you go to Saigon?
V: Saigon.
00:20:15
I: So, you went into the big airport there. Alright. Once you landed in Vietnam, what‟s your first
impression of Vietnam?
V: When you‟re just landing, you‟re looking out for gunfire and people wandering around with
guns. It was calmer than I expected. There really wasn‟t anything happening
I: Did you land during the day or did you land at night?
V: I think we landed during the day.
I: Okay, so when you get off the plane, what happens?

�V: When I get off the plane, I, we got on another plane and I knew that we had to got to Hue. We
were assigned somewhere along the way, I knew we had to fly into Hue.
I: Did you have orders for a particular unit at that point or was this just to go to-?
V: I must have, yes.
I: Alright. So, when you go up to Hue, did you go up to Camp Eagle out at Phu Bai?
V: We were picked up at the airport, I‟m sure, at Phu Bai by our company executive officer. I
remember him very well.
I: A Company, what battalion was it that you were in?
V: A Company, 159th Assault Support Helicopter Company.
I: Now you are with the unit. What was the function of that unit?
V: That unit, we had, I‟m going to guess, a dozen Chinooks, and that‟s all we had for aircraft.
That‟s all the company was, was either support canal or crew. There were some cooks and some
supply people, but predominantly it was just to support the Chinooks.
00:22:09
I: How many people would be on the ground?
V: In that company?
I: Yeah, as opposed to ones who fly.
V: Maybe 150? You know, we had trucks. We had some trucks, we had a motor pool division,
we had a supply division, we had a mess hall.
I: What was the standard crew for a Chinook?
V: Five.
I: What were they?
V: Pilot, co-pilot, crew chief, and usually two door-gunners.
I: So, a Chinook, while it is a transport, still has door-gunners on it.
V: Yes.
I: You associate those with the Hueys, and you had them too. Okay. Now, the, what base were
you operating out of?
V: We had our own base, A Company Pachyderms had their own base, Flight Line.
I: So, was it on a larger base? Were you at Phu Bai?
V: No, no. We were at Phu Bai, and we were a stand-alone from Phu Bai. Each of the
companies, there were three Chinook companies.

�I: So, you had your own spaces with your own helipads or whatever. So, within this larger base,
this is your chunk of it.
V: No, it wasn‟t a larger base.
I: Were you outside the wire of the main base at Phu Bai?
V: We had our own perimeter. Now, I suppose the Phu Bai Airbase was probably part of that
perimeter. We could take a vehicle and go over to the airbase, but we were separate from Camp
Eagle.
I: But not isolated so you could be surrounded by angry NVA.
V: Correct.
I: So, this really was your world for the time you were there.
00:24:00
V: We had our own perimeter that we were exposed [?], and we maintained that perimeter.
I: Now, as a pilot, did you have to do bunker duty, or were you exempt from that?
V: No, you still had to do, you had to monitor. Everyone had the responsibility to monitor for a
night or so. Or you had to do patrols and walk through to make sure all the enlisted people, make
sure that there was nothing strange going on. But, for the most part, that was very, very little.
I: Now, were you attached to a specific larger unit, or would you help anybody? Were you
attached to the 101st Airborne, or did you work with anybody?
V: No, when we got our orders, we would just get our orders to pick up something from here and
take it over there. It had no reference to who it was.
I: Okay.
V: Most of I Corps was the 101st, but I‟ve flown in stuff to the Canadians and their Marines. We
did some work for the Marines, the Navy.
I: Did you ever do things for the South Vietnamese?
V: I‟m sure we did. And when you‟re in a helicopter dropping a load, you don‟t always know
who‟s underneath it. You‟re given a location, and that‟s where you drop it. Somebody throws
out, that‟s where it goes, whatever it is you‟re carrying.
I: Now, you‟re coming in. Do you start piloting right away, or do you have an orientation period
first? What happens when you first get to the unit?
V: You had an orientation where you would fly with somebody who has been there a while. You
fly as co-pilot, until, I don‟t think there‟s a set time. I think you do it for long enough that
someone gives you the okay, the CO says, “Put him on his own.” I don‟t remember how long
that was. Wasn‟t too long, maybe a few weeks.

�00:26:11
I: So, you‟re arriving there in early 1970. Were you busy right away? Were there a lot of flights
to make?
V: The first thing I remember was when we got to the airbase, this thing that we had to do was
bury Bangalore torpedoes. So, that was kind of unusual, and it has nothing to do with flight.
You‟re out there messing around with a bunch of explosives, making graphs of where this stuff
was buried.
I: So, are you just burying them for storage or are you -?
V: No, we are burying them for protection. This is inside the wire, but it was places nobody was
supposed to be. No walking. But if the enemy came through there, which was not uncommon,
theoretically somebody could set off these explosives.
I: So, you would detonate them, you wouldn‟t just step on them and set them off.
V: Correct.
V: They‟re not a landmine exactly in the conventional sense, I guess an IED in a way.
V: Yeah, they‟re an IED. And where those wires went and who had responsibility for them, I
don‟t know. We were new in country and we were out there burying these things, and the wires
went off to somewhere. This was the executive officer, he was the one who picked ups up, that‟s
probably why I remember him as much as anything.
I: Alright, when you start flying, did the missions seem pretty routine to you when you began?
Were you getting shot at or not?
V: No, we weren‟t shot at. Chinooks are fairly valuable, so they don‟t put them in too bad of
spots. Mainly we were flying up and down the Highway 1, I guess it was, corridor, supplying
major bases with one thing or another. We would also fly out to the fire support bases because
we were the ones that supplied and we were the only ones that could supply big cargos of ammo.
00:28:27
V:We carried the 105 howitzers out.
I: Artillery, artillery pieces, large supplies.
V: Water.
I: Food, water.
V: Food, water, I‟d even carry money, I‟d carry money out for MPC, I think they‟d call it. I
know that because the door came open one time.
I: So, you had a ton of fine money just flying everywhere?
V: It was through the air, it was everywhere.

�I: So, you start doing this, now, in the early months of 1970, January, February, March, in there.
Did you have to deal with weather issues? Were there areas you couldn‟t fly?
V: We put in Fire Base Ripcord. We were the first ones to actually put troops and cannons on
Fire Base Ripcord. That was in the early part of the year. I can‟t tell you whether I was the pilot
or the co-pilot at that time, but I know we put int in, and it wasn‟t in there very long, and we had
to take it back out because we couldn‟t re-supply it because of the weather. The weather was a
problem and I assume that they thought it was too vulnerable.
00:29:48
I: Because there were three attempts to establish a fire base on that particular hilltop. The first
effort was the 12th of March, or something like that. They land and they go off pretty much in the
same day. And they try again April 1st, and the men walk off and leave. It‟s not until about ten
days later that they were able to actually establish it. Now, were you flying all of those or did
you? You think you flew the first one, March maybe?
V; No, I don‟t know which one I would have flown. I think we were carrying the cannons in.
I: Yep.
V: So, I don‟t know which one of those.
I: It either could have been the March one or April 1st. But you remember going out there to this
place to put it in and going back to pick the stuff back up again.
V: We often carry a cannon, a 105, with another sling-load of ammo underneath it. So, you set
the ammo down, move over, and set the cannon down.
I: So, you did that for Ripcord. Were you doing that to establish other fire bases?
V: Yeah, that was mainly what we did, all up and down the mountains there. There weren‟t any
fire bases in the valley; they were all on the mountains. There was a dozen or more in my corps
to resupply.
I: Were there particular tricks or problems that you had to be aware of and watch out for? You
were up in the mountains so…
V: Yeah, very cognizant of the wind, of course, and the clouds and the weather, you know.
Sometimes we were carrying, we went into, we were removing people who had been shot.
Medevacs. If we were the closest to a base, Hueys were usually used for med evacs. If we were
the closest ones or the only ones who could get in there because the clouds lifted, we carried
people out.
I: At what point during all of this do you get the sense that you were in the middle of a war? As
soon as you got into the base, or was it later?
00:32:06

�V: Well, early in one of my orientation flights, I was with, I can‟t tell you who I was with. We
were flying at a very high altitude, five or six thousand feet, which rarely did we do, and across
the headphones came a beep.
And my pilot at that time said, “If you hear two beeps, you‟ll never hear the third beep, because
that‟s an incoming enemy missile or something.” That got my attention. I never did hear the
second beep, but we were flying up over the DMZ at that time, but at a high altitude. So, that,
probably, is what made me think this is real.
I: Alright, Ripcord gets established as a fire base in 1970. There are other bases in the area you
were operating around. Was there a point… Eventually, Ripcord would become sort of under
siege, bombarded a lot. Before that period, before July of 1970, were there other difficult
situations that you found yourself in?
V: [Nods]
I: Can you talk about that?
V: There was a firebase out west of Ripcord, a much lower elevation, probably half way to the
valley, I can‟t remember it, but it was under siege. A lot of mortars were going into that, and they
needed water, bad, and I don‟t know whether I volunteered or if that was just the assignment, to
take a blivet of water in. We knew that if we were going to spend any time over that hovering,
we were going to take a mortar round. We had to come in and drop the blivet of water as fast as
we could safely and get out of there before the mortar started. We dropped it. I later heard it
rolled off the mountain, but they still got some of the water. We never saw any mortar fire, so we
were out of there before anything happened.
00:34:24
I: Now, you say a blivet of water. Was this just a plastic thing that contains a bag, or?
V: A big, big, black tube full of water. I‟m guessing 500-600 gallons.
I: Was it sort of flexible like innertube material?
V: Yeah, you could have dropped it. I was the pilot and my command to the crew chief was get it
on the ground and let‟s get out of here. Everybody knew that we were in a hurry, and we
probably dropped it a few feet off the ground, instead of setting it on the ground. It bounced or
rolled, I didn‟t actually see what happened to it. We were getting out of there.
I: And before the Ripcord business in July when your helicopter is hit, were you ever hit with
enemy fire?
V: I‟m not sure any of the pachyderms were hit, no. Some of the other companies were
destroyed. One of them took a cannon, some company of the US took a cannon in the wrong
place and the artillery went through the back door. It was sitting out there in the jungle.
I: But your own particular group had not taken losses?
00:35:59

�V: No. We were pretty, we did a pick up from a fire fight at night on another base. I want to say
Rakkasan. There was a fire fight all night and people were throwing hand grenades back and
forth. I was the co-pilot that day, and the pilot chose to hover up the hill because it was in the
clouds. But there were people on there that were seriously wounded. So, we hovered up the hill
within 20-30 yds of the hill the whole way. Anybody who had been down there, they could have
taken us down in a heartbeat.
I: Because a helicopter like that doesn‟t have any sort of armor or protection, does it?
V: No.
I: Did they give you some kind of body armor or anything like that?
V: The seats had little windows of body armor, but that was it. We were not protected.
I: You really couldn‟t have a whole lot of weight added on, anyways.
V: No, not really, no.
I: So, you‟reV: Your helicopter‟s vulnerable. For small arms fire, it would have to be hit in the right spot.
Much of the body is just fiberglass. You definitely know what you‟re shooting at.
I: Now, as we move on in the year 1970, around the first of July. Now, Ripcord Firebase, on one
hilltop, is starting to get bombarded on a regular basis with enemy fire and sometimes rockets.
Anti-aircraft machine guns were getting set up. It was getting more and more difficult to go in
there. So, was it different flying into Ripcord at that point than it normally was for you?
00:38:00
V: Well, normally the helipad, actually, there were two helipads, one helipad. When we carried
in ammo, we normally dumped it at the ammo dump, which was on the south side of the hill. We
never landed, that was the helipad on the west side, but there were times that they were taking
enough fire that we were directed around to the back side. There wasn‟t a pad there, but that‟s
where we dropped ammunition, not cannons, because we weren‟t visible to anyone to the south
or southwest side. We drop it where the smoke was, we didn‟t have an option. When we were
coming in, we‟d tell them we were coming in, and they‟d pop smoke, and that‟s where we‟d
drop, no matter what. We didn‟t have an option; we didn‟t know what was going on.
I: Now, I had heard that some of the time, you‟d actually drop ammunition close to the actual
artillery positions themselves. Do they have sort ofV: I mean, that may be. I have dropped ammo on the northeast side, but they have to hump it up
over the top. That‟s what I assume happened.
I: Yeah, because sometimes, some of the artillerists talk about having to carry the ammunition
and so forth to their positions and so forth. Of course, it was a 155 battery there as well as a 105
battery there, and they were in different places and positions, too.

�For you, as the days go by in July, were you noticing that the fire was getting worse, or was it
always just the same for you?
00:39:57
V: No, it was, you could tell it was usually getting worse when they‟d drop smoke at an unusual
place. There was never, you communicated with somebody, but it was usually just, “We‟ll pop
smoke.” It wasn‟t to tell you that anything bad‟s happening, and of course, we can‟t see. We
don‟t know anything about it. When you‟re dropping it along the wrong side, you know, you got
a pretty good idea that there was something happening.
I: Now we are getting to the point where the 18th of July, things are getting a little bit more
dramatic. What happens that day?
V: Well, that‟s the day that we were bringing in ammunition. We were just called and somebody
popped smoke at the regular place on the south side. We just flew in there. That‟s when things
got bad.
I: What happened?
V: We‟re hovering and this happened in not minutes but probably seconds. We are hovering over
the load trying to get lower, and I‟m talking to my crew chief. He‟s telling me left or right. And
then, all of a sudden, somebody comes on, I‟m flying, somebody comes through the cab. The copilot was a maintenance captain. He wasn‟t an experienced, he wasn‟t a traditional combat pilot.
Somebody comes up through the seats, the pilot and the co-pilot, and is hollering something.
You can‟t hear, you‟re right underneath the transmission. So, I look back, and when I look
forward, it‟s completely smoked. I had no idea what was going on.
I didn‟t lower the collective, it just happened instantly. I couldn‟t move the, my thought process
at the time was, “I think I would rather have take off up over the hill and take my chances in the
trees.” But, by that time, we had lost power, and the rotors hit the side of the hill. Then we were
done.
I: How‟d you get out of there?
00:42:45
V: My copilot, we were laying on our right side, my copilot couldn‟t get out of his seat because
he didn‟t release his seatbelt, so I released his seatbelt. I had popped my door when we were
going down. I can remember the little lever, you just pull that lever and it pops out. He must have
pulled his door too, because when we were on our side, when we released his seatbelt, I released
mine and then I released his, we both went out the door along the dirt.
I: Was the helicopter on its side?
V: On its side, on its right side.
I: Was there space underneath the helicopter?

�V: Yes, there was space underneath the helicopter, because we got out and crawled out and up on
the hill. The aircraft wasn‟t moving by then. The rotors had stopped. The cyclic had been beating
my legs black and blue.
We got up on the hill and we started taking inventory of people. There was somebody missing.
Apparently, two people missing. One person was trapped underneath the fuel cell. Our crew
chief had jumped out, and the helicopter, the right fuel cell was on top of him. So, me and some
other individual, I hope to find out who that was, went back underneath.
00:44:17
V: I remember taking my pistol off because I didn‟t want to get hung up. We went back
underneath the aircraft, and he was awake, conscious, but he was pinned. We couldn‟t get him
out. I took his helmet off and was talking to him, telling him everything was going to be fine.
I noticed that the dirt was splattering around us. My thought was, well it was that M-60 on there
that was either firing, either the ammunition was firing or something was happening and I told
whoever was with us that we had to get out of there.
So, we crawled out, and before we got to the top of the hill, I heard Michael scream. The fuel had
poured over the top of him.
So, at that point, I remember asking someone on the hill, “Do you have a cat or something we
can push the aircraft up, push the aircraft up and get him out from underneath it?” There was
nothing there.
It all happened so fast that we couldn‟t have done anything anyway.
Once we got to the top of the hill, we were escorted down into some conex containers, buried. I
spent some time in the conex containers, listening to the fireworks.
I: Now that things were starting to get brought in, were you on top of the ammunition, with the
ammunition at this point?
V: Yeah.
I: That all starts to go. The ammunition at the 105 position starts to close. You have a whole
chain reaction of explosions.
00:46:02
V: When we were crawling underneath the aircraft, we were crawling in between ammunition
crates, whatever they were, because the aircraft wasn‟t flat. It was sort of laying on top of stuff,
so we were working our way around. It wasn‟t a maze, but…
I: And then that goes, okay. That‟s sort of the beginning of the end ultimately for Ripcord. They
will end up abandoning it a few days later, in part because of the damage done during that
explosion. So, what happens to you afterwards, after the explosions and so forth? Did they get
you off of the firebase that day, or did you have to stay there?

�V: No, we were there. Again, I don‟t know the timeframe. A couple of hours, I think, because no
aircraft could come in. Eventually, things were going off and everything was shaking. Lots of
noise. I don‟t know how many of us were in that conex.
I remember when they took us down to that conex that whoever was in charge of the hill was
there. I told him I‟m sorry, you know. I don‟t recall him saying anything. We sat in that conex
container until some Hueys came in with fire extinguishers, airport fire extinguishers. They were
bringing them in, and then we got on, a couple of us at least. I can‟t tell you who it was. I don‟t
remember who it was. At that point, we were probably not thinking real straight.
They flew us from there on a Huey, to, I don‟t remember where. We went back to our base, I
guess.
I: Did they just put you back flying another Chinook at that point?
00:48:01
V: Essentially. I think I probably had a couple of days off.
I: Were you involved when they do the final evacuation off of Ripcord? They probably aren‟t
using a lot of Chinooks for that at that point. Did you fly in that?
V: No. That was the last time I was in Ripcord.
I: Okay. Now, after that, how much more time do you have in Vietnam?
V: Well, probably, again, this goes back… I spent a full year there, so it depends on exactly
when I got there. I‟m assuming it was the end of January. We still flew plenty of missions. I
think I did take an R&amp;R after that.
I: And where‟d you go?
V: I went to Japan.
I: What was that like?
V: I‟ve seen enough of it. [Laughs]
I: Another Asian country at that point?
V: No, that never bothered me. It just wasn‟t home. You don‟t know anybody. No Americans,
even though we stayed on a naval base, I believe. Me and one other guy from the company went.
There‟s not much to do and nobody to talk to.
I: Now, what was daily life like for you in Vietnam?
V: Every evening, you‟d spend in the Officers Club. I don‟t think I got drunk too much. We had
plenty of to drink. We‟d have good meals. Every once in a while, at the Officers Club, they‟d do
their own meal. We had a NCO club that once in a while you were in charge of the liquor count.
How much liquor there was, inventory.

�00:50:11
I: Would you ever go off base?
V: Well, we went off base a couple of times, but not very often. There wasn‟t really too much to
do off base. We had a Bob Hope show, but we were flying people in and out, so we didn‟t get to
see those kinds of things.
I: Now did they have Vietnamese working on the base?
V: Yes.
I: What kind of things did they do?
V: We had a barber. We had gals that would clean the lavatories. We had some bar girls. I guess
that‟s about it.
I: Did you have much of an impression of them, one way or another?
V: Well, I noticed the French influence. They were very pretty people, dark complexion. I never
had any problem with them.
I: So, you didn‟t have a chance to get to know them?
V: No, no.
I: Did you deal much at all with the South Vietnamese military?
V: Only from the air. Once in a while, you had, I transported troops around every once in a
while. You had to be… There were rumors where if we transported them, someone would leave
a hand grenade with the pin pulled sitting on the floor. They‟d get off and then you‟d move…
Whether that was true or not, it certainly left an impression, but I don‟t know what we could do
about it.
00:52:11
V: was a lot of things like that you couldn‟t do anything about other than cross your fingers.
I: Okay. Now, at Ripcord, so the later part of 1970, did things quiet down, or were you busy
flying all the time?
V: We were busy flying all the time. We not only resupplied, we flew, I‟ve taken big aircraft
hangar doors and move them from one base to another. Or, you‟d fly the bus run, where you‟d
pick up people at point A and fly them to Da Nang. We had cases where we transported aircraft
there to Saigon. We‟d trade things.
We had, I remember the big red one moved, and we were moving furniture and stuff. In my
aircraft, we had a whole bunch of leather captain‟s chairs, leather lounge chairs that we were
moving someplace. We just happened to stop at our base and lost two or three of those chairs
when we landed. The rest of them made their journey to where ever they were going. There was
a bunch of that messing around.

�I: When you flew down to Da Nang or Saigon or any place like that, would you ever stay over
there? Would you just fly back again?
V: Da Nang was common to fly down and back, it wasn‟t very far, but when we took an aircraft
down to Saigon, we‟d spend a night down there. It was a two-day affair.
I: When you do that, do stay on base or did you go into town?
V: No, we never went into town.
00:54:00
I: Did you have any feel how the larger war was going? Were we winning, losing, treading
water?
V: [Shakes head no]
I: Didn‟t think about it?
V: Didn‟t think about it. We didn‟t have any radios, we didn‟t get any newspapers. We had no
contact with the outside world. We just, the only contact was, “Bob, here‟s your aircraft, take
this and go from Point A to Point B.”
I: Would you get letters from home? Things like that?
V: Yeah. We would get letters. We could get mail. You could get mail and send mail. But the
letters, they weren‟t…
I: That was family stuff.
V: They weren‟t daily. No phone conversations.
I: Now as you started to get short, did your attitude change? Did your missions change? Did you
just do the same thing until you left?
V: I think pretty much the same thing until I left. Probably up to the last week, where I probably
didn‟t volunteer. Well, there weren‟t volunteers; you were assigned for this flight. You didn‟t
really have much choice of which ones you were doing.
I: When you get to the end of your year, are you going to be able to get out of the Army at that
point, or are they going to make you go to another base in the States for a while? What will
happen?
V: Well, when I came back, I had, I think, I must have had thirty days to report to Fort Rucker. I
flew home. I flew into Seattle. My wife met me there, and we stayed in Oregon for thirty days
and then drove to Fort Rucker with all of our belongings, or at least all we could fit in the
Volkswagen.
00:56:02
I: How long did you stay at Fort Rucker?

�V: Well, I stayed in Fort Rucker until we were discharged. We got an early discharge. I was a
flight instructor, Chinook flight instructor, then I transferred over to Cairns Army Air Base as a
test pilot. We were testing engines and other things for the Chinook, which was very enjoyable,
but it was lots of boredom and moments of stark terror.
I: So, you‟re trying something new and you didn‟t know what would happen next?
V: We were testing engines, primarily engines, so you would do all of the, test the limits of the
performance of the engine. Run it at the highest RPM, the most power for the longest time. We
flew from Cairns Army Airstrip, which is just south of Rucker, and we‟d fly down and fly
around the islands of Apalachicola around and around and around and around, then we would
come back.
I: Now, at this point, was the Army making any effort to encourage you to stay, or were they
downsizing and happy to send you away?
V: They were, at some point along the way, I had actually started the paperwork to go to the
Texas Naval Airbase as a, the astronaut program. It was the beginning of the people going into
the astronaut program, I guess. Before that paperwork all got through, I was offered a way out. I
had a pretty good idea that I was going to end up back in Vietnam fairly quickly, so I chose to
get out.
00:58:12
I: Yep. So, now, at that point, once you go out of the Army, what do you do next?
V: When I got out of the Army, we came back to Oregon and I started looking for a job. Where I
was looking was in the Boise area, and I started talking to some aircraft companies. What they
wanted me to do was crop dust at night, so I decided there wasn‟t much of a future there. I end
up no longer flying. I still had a fixed-wing license, so I still did some private pilot‟s flying, but
not to any extent. I ended up actually working at a lumber mill.
I: Did you make a career out of that business?
V: No, I moved around. We‟ve owned a couple of businesses since then in eastern Oregon. We
moved to central Oregon from eastern, then back to Portland. I‟ve had a number of professions.
00:59:27
I: When you look back at the time you spent in the service, both in Vietnam and outside, were
there other things that stood out in your memory that you haven‟t brought into the story yet?
V: No, I had questions about why we were doing smoke on the firebase where it was. My
understanding was that they knew there was a problem. Talking to one of the crew members, he
saw the people that were firing at us. He was new on the base and he didn‟t know whether he
was supposed to fire or not. He probably didn‟t even know what he was looking at until too late.
I: So, you still wonder why it was you were sent into Ripcord on that day under those
conditions?

�V: I want to know why we weren‟t sent around to the back side.
I: That might have been a little bit safer.
V: The event would never have happened. Whether things would have turned out better for the
people on the base, I can‟t answer that. We lost some lives that day. If that was the trade off, I
don‟t know.
I: That memory is just going to stay with you.
V: Absolutely. I think about that often.
I: Well, you‟ve actually helped and contributed a big part to the larger stories. I thank you for
taking the time to tell a story today.
V: You‟re welcome.

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                    <text>William James College Interviews
GV016-16
Interviewer: Barbara Roos
Interviewee: Barry Castro
Date: 1984

[Barbara]

I told you that the students would be among the audience. Was there something
you want to be sure to say?

[Castro]

When I talk to my management classes now, management is a difficult field to
teach, in a way, because you've got lots of students who haven't ever been in a
managerial context, an ordinary one, haven't been in the industrial context, and
they get a bunch of management courses as part of a business curriculum. So,
your task is to find some experiential context that they can connect that
theoretical material to make it their own. And I like using classroom material for it.
One of the major management theories that we talk about is Douglas McGregor's
"Theory Y" notion of invoking participation loosely. McGregor argues that it's
necessary to assume a willingness to be involved, a willingness to work. That
there is no adversarial relationship between work and a firm [?]. And that given
that assumption, it will be ill-founded sometimes, but you will get much more
happening than if you don't. And it talks about the disastrous consequences of
beginning with the opposite assumption. And everybody affirms that, and people
read that stuff and they feel "Lord, it's just mom and apple pie, of course that's
true." And at around that point I asked them how many of them have heard of the
cluster colleges and William James, and Thomas Jefferson, and those places.
And it's recent enough so that many of them have. And I say that, you know, that
is really what we did, we were pushing on that kind of involvement, all the time,
and from ourselves, from students, students doing it to each other. It was what
made the place work. But looking at it from the outside, what do you know about
it? I guess that's the first thing I ask. And they say: "Well non-graded, one. And
two, easy." And we talk about the proclivity to define participative management
as soft management by people on the outside of it. So, the resistance you get to
any effort to manage in a way that involves subordinates in a way a firm really
works is people on outside giggling and saying: "Oh my! Just look at what they're
letting them get away with." And when they can find someone who is actually
getting away with something, there's a cause for real celebration there. And to
say that abstractly is nothing. But to point at the people in my class and say
"Look at what you folks are doing," with very little information. But your incentive
is so great to interpret what you've got, or to make up information that you don't
have, that kind of resistance to managerial innovation, to, I think, good
management, needs to be reckon with all the time. And it's the case in point that I
use. I think for students and faculty, we were made to order for them. Many of

�our students come to school… many students at places like Grand Valley come
to school having a notion that if it's hard, it's good, and if it's fun, there's
something wrong with it. So, the Board of Education in Grand Rapids, I think, last
week passing resolutions saying, "Everybody should have homework." And the
City High School, which prides itself on being a quality institution in Grand
Rapids, advertises itself as "two hours of homework a night," as if that was the
elixir, you know, that was the magic stuff that made it work. And they're onto
something about the sociology of your clientele that's right because the clientele
are so bound up in that notion that if you involve people, and you let them have
fun with it, you're somehow doing it wrong. You're not giving them the real stuff.
And I think that was very hard for us to overcome.
[Barbara]

Could we have overcome it, or did the administration have a responsibility to help
us overcome it? Where could this ever have been fought?

[Castro]

Well, public image-wise, I think we were in much, much better shape for fighting
it for the last few years. I think we got to know what we were doing much better.
And asking for public… the public has a notion that we're supposed to know what
we're doing from scratch. And that were supposed to come in and just do
something, all which has been invented, which in any field is absurd, no field I
think more absurd than in education. The standard item, the routine stuff, the
kinds of classes they are used to… know what they're doing, certainly know
better than we do. In my view, often knew less well, they inquired less
thoughtfully into what they were doing. The question doesn't come up for them,
and folks were… it would be hard to get folks willing to give us the time to be so
much above the mark, so they can begin to trust us even though we were out of
the ordinary. I don't think there's a lot the administration could have done about
that. My neighbors who say "Thomas James" were not reachable by the
administration. And they were sophisticated, nice people who like me and think
that it must've been a little bit okay because I was there. They don't mean to be
putting it down, but they can't get it straight.

[Barbara]

If you had to sum up what made James unique, very, very briefly, like two or
three sentences, what was the thing that was critical?

[Castro]

Keywords: ambition, involvement, tremendous seriousness about education, and
not being caught up in cynicism about careers and making it and looking for
things. We talked about vocation all the time, looking for real vocation, and the
students who are… I think profit most from the place, were most involved in it
and the faculty were most involved in it, had found the vocation there, which was
going to be with them the rest of their lives, as far as I can tell. And that seemed
enormously valuable to me.

[Barbara]

That's a wonderful execution. I think we’re running [Inaudible]… yeah,

�everything’s fine. Is there an answer… this may be too personal, in which case
let’s not treat it as a serious question. Can you phrase why you came to James
without laying on a whole biography? What was there in you that readied you for
an alternative setting? Why was traditional education not satisfactory?
[Castro]

Well, I came there… I read an article about it, actually, that just touched on it.
Mostly about Grand Valley in general, more about TJC, a little bit about James
and change. But I was taken enough with the ambition of what was going on here
to write Don Lubbers a letter saying I read this article about your place and I'm
interested. And Don passed it on to Adrian and I got invited out for an interview,
which was nice. I think the particularities of my own situation is there's nothing…
the only problem about personal is I don't know how generalizable it will be. I
taught with some very good people when I began teaching who were serious and
good about what they did. And I did a kind of extended apprenticeship with them.
A historian named Herb Gottman, a sociologist, people who became friends and
had been at it longer than me and were very good. And I got a sense that I was
going to college over again, only much better this time than I had gone the first
time. And that was wonderful, and I wanted to keep on doing that. That stayed
with me for a while. Then one of the people I taught with at that first institution got
to be dean of faculty at a new branch of CUNY that started in nineteen seventy.
And called me and asked if I wanted to organize a social science program there.
And it was a wonderful opportunity to invent from scratch an institution. And we
did a lot of things wrong in that invention. But I learned a lot at [Inaudible] which
was the name of this place at City University and wanted a place to use what I
had learned and going to an economics department to do micro, macro and an
occasional elective seemed very dreadful, yes. And when I came to James, I
think the first… immediately upon coming in, and meeting people, and getting
some sense of what the place was about. It was as if I had been here forever. I
recognized it and I don't know what folks’ reaction to it – my stance – was, but I
never entertained the possibility that they wouldn't hire me at all. I mean it was
mine and of course they'd… it belonged to me. And they did what they were
supposed to do, but it was very compelling.

[Barbara]

What would you say, again, not being very specific about current things, but in
teaching now… no, it's not a good question, forget it. I’m sorry. Stop for a
second. God, he’s looking gorgeous, isn’t he? Its fine, I'll cut through the other
stuff. Okay, that's the question we’re on.

[Castro]

Okay. I want to talk about…

[Unknown]

That side, yes. Like that, that's…

[Castro]

The difference between… I've been teaching the last couple years in a business
school environment and that seems on first vision… when I first understood that I

�would be going to a business school, that was, it certainly felt like it was going to
be a very alien environment, it was scary. It has not been an alien environment.
The internal dynamics of my classes seem very similar to what went on in
James. I am teaching in the same way and I feel that I am being responded to
well. In some ways, very well. I am more of a rare commodity teaching at a
school of business than I ever was at James. And folks could kind of nod their
head when I did what I did at James and they are hearing it all for the first time.
[Barbara]

Like what?

[Castro]

Well, the purpose of this class is not information transmission, boom boom,
boom, boom, boom. What we’re up to is engaging your thinking and engaging
you in a conversation on the one hand with the literature, and on the other hand
with the experience, and getting you to see that conversation, and respond to it.
And getting smarter. I tell my students that the heart of management, the only
two real ingredients of management are being as smart as you can be and good
manners. And everything else is detail. It all follows from that. You need to listen
to people, and respect them, and you need to think about what you're listening to
as hard as you can. It fits in the context of liberal education much better than I
think most people either in the humanities or in business schools know. And I’ve
discovered a sense of mission about getting people both in the humanities and in
the business schools to recognize that. That business schools can be perfectly
viable milieus to teach well in. And I think a lot of what business schools are has
been a reaction to feeling nasty prejudice coming from humanities. And the kind
of thumbing of the nose back at them and turning up of our speakers, or ghetto
blasters, or whatever, and just letting it blare out. Because you guys expect us to
be doing that anyway, so we're going to let you have it. So, it's been fun to
discover that there was something real for me to do in this milieu. And fun also
that there were large numbers of students who were there, who I didn't need to
go scraping for them, there was support from the outside environment, we didn't
need to defend the business school’s right to exist, at all. I could go on to do the
work that I needed to do as a teacher, without needing to deflect my energies in
all sorts of ways that at James they got deflected. And that's been very exciting.
Students have been… they come to my office a lot. People are around, and
they're grateful for the kind of thing I've been pushing for. And I’ve very, very,
very little resistance. Actually, almost none that I know of… there may have been
some that's quiet. I miss the collegiality. I had Robert Mayberry next door to me
for ten years at James, and that was extraordinary and wonderful and I miss it.
But he's only across a short mall. This not having to worry about Alison
Bernstein's double preciousness has been very nice. I'm not in a precious milieu
now, I'm just in a business school. And if we can do the stuff we can do in that
kind of milieu, that's better. I don't think I could have gotten as good without
James, at all. I don't think we could have. I don't know that we can stay as good
without it, and I worry about that. And I worry about what's going to generate

�more faculty with those same commitments. And my sense is that we have to do
it. We have to keep on talking and wait until the next cosmic change happens,
right?
[Barbara]

Wonderful end to the show. Thank you! It was a good close.

[Videotape recording ends and begins again]
[Barbara]

Because also, like, everybody doesn't cover the same material, so it must be
clear that this isn't a real… I mean, people didn't get together and talk and
organize this. People's conversations do bypass each other a little bit, you know.

[Castro]

Are you going to get Adrian?

[Barbara]

Of course. She troubles me. Has she written you? She hasn't written me either.

[Castro]

She talked to me about three weeks ago.

[Barbara]

Oh really?

[Castro]

Where did I see her? Were we in Minneapolis?

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
John Barwacz
(01:53:59)
(00:20) Background Information
• John was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on June 3, 1921
• His father immigrated from Russia and his mother immigrated from Poland
• The Depression was tough on his family and there was not much food to eat
• They received government aid for food
• John went to Catholic school and had no time for sports because he had to work to
help support his family
(9:50) After High School
• John had not paid much attention to the news when he was in high school
• He did not know a whole lot about Hitler or Europe because he could not afford to
buy a newspaper
• John dropped out of high school in his last year to work full time
• He remembered hearing the news of Pearl Harbor on the radio and everyone had
been shocked
(18:35) Navy Enlistment August 18, 1942
• John enlisted in the Navy and was sent to Detroit for physicals
• He then took a train with many others to Great Lakes Naval Academy in Chicago,
Illinois
• They began boot camp and it was very strict; they had to get up every day at 4 am
• John then had advanced training at the University of Kansas for 16 weeks where
he took engineering courses
• After advanced training he took a train to San Francisco to a staging area
(25:20) Heading North
• John was on board a destroyer that burned 2,000 gallons of oil an hour
• They headed for Seattle where they picked up heavier clothes because their next
stop was the Aleutian Islands
• John spent time working in the boiler room, with guns on deck, and also was a
lookout
• They then headed for Kiska; there were many Japanese Aleutian islands and the
Navy had been shelling the islands to try to drive them out
(35:55) Pearl Harbor
• Pearl Harbor was much nicer than the foggy and stormy weather of the Aleutians
• They put together a task force with cruisers, destroyers, and air craft carriers to
bombard Wake Island
• They left quickly toward the island, while John was on lookout the whole trip

�•

They zig zagged on course to avoid any Japanese submarines and began shelling
the island

(40:30) Gilbert Islands
• They moved along other Pacific islands to take them back from the Japanese
• It usually only took a few days to secure the islands
• After they left, a Japanese submarine sunk a brand new air craft carrier
• They were only able to pick up 14 survivors, and then headed back to the patrol
station for submarine guard
(44:15) Marshall Islands
• Here the Navy was bombarding and screening for submarines and other Japanese
ships
• They were able to go ashore for lunch and to have some beer on a base
• They found that the US Army had hid a bunch of K-rations underground and
marked them as graves; they were saving them for an emergency
(50:50) Marianas Islands
• They traveled around Tinian, Saipan, and Guam, continuing to bomb, shell, and
screen for Japanese
• A large Japanese fleet had been launched against them
• The Americans shot down about 400 Japanese planes, but John never got a chance
to see any of the excitement because he had been working in the boiler room the
whole time
• They left the Marianas Islands and headed back to Pearl Harbor and then to
Seattle for 30 day leave
(1:00:15) Ship Life
• On the USS Hull they had to refuel every 3-4 days from an aircraft carrier or
battle ship
• They saved many pilots that had crashed into the water; when they returned the
pilots to another ship, they usually received a giant drum of ice cream in return
• They usually had pretty good food, but never on Sundays
(1:09:30) Fire Control School
• John was transferred to a school in Seattle where he trained in fire fighting for 4
weeks
• He was then assigned to an attack transport ship, APA 166
• They loaded the ship with marines, tanks, and other equipment
• The ship was larger than a destroyer and had bunks stacked 6 deep
• The ship was brand new and just been commissioned outside of Oregon
(1:18:45) Okinawa
• They traveled to Okinawa in April and unloaded the Marines
• US planes were performing many air raids
• John was there for about a week and there were many kamikaze attacks

�•
•

After he left, they stopped once in Guam and then went back to Seattle
They loaded up with more Marines and headed for Japan

(1:22:55) Japan
• John was on the first ship to reach the harbor and they began removing mines
• The Marines first went ashore to secure the area
• The sailors went ashore the next day and all the Japanese saluted them
• John later went back to Guam and much of the island had been destroyed
• They began loading the ships with troops to bring back to the US
• John later learned that after he had been transferred to fire school, the USS Hull
had sunk and only about 1/5 of the men had survived
(1:35:25) Discharged
• John had two other brothers in the service and they had not known that he had
been transferred; they thought he had died on the USS Hull
• John was sent back to Chicago to be discharged, but they had lost his papers and
sent him back to Michigan until they could find them
• He was discharged about two weeks later on December 24, 1945
• John later received 9 battle stars and 6 medals for his time in the service
• Both of his brothers were in good health and began working right away, but he
took some time off
• John later began working at a manufacturing company and got married
• He had four children and now has 2 grandchildren

�</text>
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Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. &#13;
&#13;
Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections.&#13;
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Lin Bashford
Vietnam War
1 hour 15 minutes 40 seconds
(00:00:25) Early Life
-Born in Scott’s Bluff, Nebraska, on August 20, 1946
-Moved to Wyoming when he was two years old
-Father worked for the Bureau of Reclamation
-Attended high school in Cheyenne, Wyoming
-Graduated in 1964
-Attended Casper Junior College for 2 years then University of Wyoming for 2 ½ years
-Graduated from college with a degree in range management (bachelor degree of science)
-Every six months he got an update about his draft status
-Draft board kept close tabs on him
(00:02:18) Getting Drafted
-Got a job with the Wyoming Game &amp; Fish Department
-Tried to enlist in the National Guard
-Denied enlistment because he was already slated to be drafted
-Received his draft notice
-Went to Denver, Colorado, to report for his draft physical and induction in April 1969
-Had ten slots open for the Marine Corps, and the draft board needed to fill those slots
-He was initially selected, and didn’t want to go into the Marines as a draftee
-Fortunately, someone else volunteered and filled his slot
(00:05:34) Basic Training Pt. 1
-Sent to Fort Ord, California, for basic training
-Taken by bus to the receiving station
-Greeted by drill sergeants screaming orders at him and the other recruits
-Knew what to expect because his father had served in the Army during World War II
-Drill sergeants screamed at recruits and threw gear at them
-Had difficulty adjusting because he was older and was used to being independent
(00:07:34) Social Movements &amp; the Vietnam War
-Noticed some anti-war protests while in college
-Saw more civil rights protests than anti-war protests
-Remembers protests about the “Chicago Seven”
-There were hippies around the university
-He was part of the Reserve Officers’ Training Corps Rifle Team
-More aware of the hippies and anti-war protesters than average students
-Mostly knew about the Vietnam War via the news and from conversation with friends
-Knew one young man that had been killed-in-action
-Knew the war was dangerous
(00:10:08) Basic Training Pt. 2
-Did a lot of physical training and drilling to get into shape
-Received firearms training
-Did classroom work
-Learned about Uniform Code of Military Justice and Army etiquette
-He was in good physical shape during basic training

�-Some of the drill sergeants were better than others
-Some drill sergeants targeted the men that had graduated from college
-If you did well, you were celebrated; if you did poorly, you were mocked
-Lasted eight weeks
(00:11:51) Advanced Infantry Training
-Assigned to advanced infantry training at Fort Ord
-Moved to a different part of the base
-Learned about infantry tactics
-Trained with grenades and other firearms
-Went through gas training
-Went into a chamber to be exposed to CS gas (form of strong tear gas)
-Went on forced marches
-Did week-long bivouacs
-A lot of the instructors had served in Vietnam and tried to prepare recruits for Vietnam
-Difficult to mimic Vietnamese climate in southern California
-Began training with M14 rifle, then M16 rifle, M60 machine gun, M79 grenade launcher
-Also worked with Light Anti-Tank Weapon and hand grenades
-Given a brief overview of mortars
-Taught how to call in mortar fire, not how to fire the mortars
-Lasted eight weeks
(00:14:42) Non-Commissioned Officer School
-He was selected for Non-Commissioned Officer (NCO) School
-Originally selected to be an 11-Foxtrot (Long Range Recon Patrol)
-Sent to Fort Benning, Georgia, for NCO School
-Learned how to read maps, how to escape &amp; evade capture, and how to be a leader
-Received classroom and practical training
-Worked as platoon sergeant, and as a squad leader
-Getting experience in various leadership positions
-Involuntary assignment
(00:17:44) Stationed at Fort Carson
-Graduated from NCO School and went to the base of his choice for on-the-job training
-He selected Fort Carson, Colorado, to work with an infantry company
-Assigned to unit within the 5th Infantry Division (Mechanized)
-Served with a regular unit as a sergeant
-Stationed there in January and February 1970
-Very cold during field training
-Working with men that already fought in Vietnam
-Got to visit his family on leave
-Assigned to Fort Carson for six weeks
(00:20:10) Deployment to Vietnam
-Orders came for him to report to the depot in Oakland to be deployed to Vietnam
-He expected it since he’d gone through NCO School
-Got a few weeks of leave before his deployment
-Flew in a chartered commercial airliner to Vietnam
-Stopped at Honolulu, but not allowed to leave the airport
(00:21:18) Arrival in Vietnam
-Landed at Bien Hoa Airbase near Saigon
-Noticed the overwhelming heat and stench
-Smelled like a hot sewer

�-Placed in a truck and taken to a reception center for incoming replacements
-Assigned a bunk
-Received in-country training
-Living in Vietnam
-Issued new clothing
-Pulled guard duty, cleaning duty, and kitchen patrol
-Stayed at the reception center longer for a week
(00:23:44) Assignment to 101st Airborne Division
-Assigned to the 101st Airborne Division operating in I Corps (northern most part of South Vietnam)
-Flew in a C-130 up to Camp Eagle
-Received more training there
-Jungle tactics, rappelling, target practice, and patrol training
-Went on patrols outside of the base with live ammunition
-Stayed there for about one week
(00:25:58) Joining D Company
-He went to Camp Evans to join D Company of 2nd Battalion of the 506th Infantry Regiment
-Joined them in April 1970 while the company was in the field
-Pulled guard duty at Camp Evans until he joined D Company
-Flew to Firebase Ripcord because the unit was there
-Barren, rocky, hilltop base surrounded by barbed wire
-Had artillery batteries and a helipad
-Supporting artillery fire for infantry units in the field
-One company stayed on the base while the other companies patrolled around it
-Joined a squad in D Company
(00:28:45) Patrols around Firebase Ripcord Pt. 1
-Walked off Ripcord to conduct patrols around the firebase
-Operated in hot, humid, and mountainous jungle
-Seemed like mass confusion to him
-Walked in a staggered, single-file line
-Forged their own trails
-Stayed aware of booby traps
-A couple men tried to help him and correct his mistakes
-Sergeant Skinner helped him a lot
-He was willing to learn from anyone, regardless of rank
-Felt the platoon leader did an excellent job
-Felt Captain Rollison was gung-ho, but cared for his men, and was respectable and competent
-Started patrols in late April/early May 1970
(00:33:05) Enemy Contact
-Very first day off the base they got attacked
-Didn’t see much of the enemy soldiers
-Saw North Vietnamese soldiers run across the trail in front of him
-Realized they were people, and not just the enemy
-First contact was very brief
-Told to go look for an enemy presence
-Found some fresh, bloody bandages, but nothing else
-Nearly impossible to see targets in the jungle
(00:36:15) Reassignment to Camp Evans Pt. 1
-Near the end of the battle of Firebase Ripcord (July 23, 1970) he was reassigned to the rear
-Captain Rollison recommended him for company clerk duty at Camp Evans

�-Felt it would be a good place for Lin’s abilities and the safest place for him
(00:37:40) Patrols around Firebase Ripcord Pt. 2
-Patrolled from one hilltop to the next
-Took hours to go from one night defensive position to another one
-Never had a “typical” day
-At night they set up a position and established a perimeter
-Set up antipersonnel mines, dug foxholes, and pulled guard duty in shifts
-North Vietnamese did recon probes at night, but never engaged in firefights
-Heard other units getting attacked at night
-One of his most vivid memories is one unit finding an enemy bunker complex
-Called in an airstrike and remembers the napalm bombs exploding on the target
(00:40:51) Battle of Firebase Ripcord
-On July 1, 1970, the North Vietnamese began their bombardment of Firebase Ripcord
-Heard the bombardment all the time
-On July 7th and 8th D Company assaulted Hill 1000
-His squad stayed back
(00:42:27) Life in the Field
-Using the bathroom in the jungle was always a chore
-Had to find a place outside the perimeter and remain vigilant
-Then returned to his unit without accidentally getting shot by his own soldiers
-Resupplied by helicopter
-Food, water, and clothing
-Ate C-rations
-Cans of pork and beans, cans of ham and lima beans, and other canned foods
-None of it tasted very good
-Had Tabasco Sauce to make the food taste better
(00:44:54) Vietnamese Scouts
-Had a Vietnamese scout with his unit who was tremendously helpful
-Identified tracks, booby traps, and enemy explosives
-Served as interpreters for prisoners-of-war
-Knew one scout that had surrendered and defected to US/South Vietnamese forces
(00:46:42) Reassignment to Camp Evans Pt. 2
-Sometime in late July he was sent to company headquarters at Camp Evans
-Served as a company clerk
-Handled morning reports, radio traffic, leaves, R&amp;Rs, and personnel records
-Men came to Camp Evans with injuries
-He monitored them and gave updates to their units in the field
-Assigned men to bunker detail, kitchen patrol, and waste burning
-Usually had eight to ten men from D Company at Camp Evans at any time
-Going to/coming from R&amp;R, leaving Vietnam, and sick or injured
(00:49:43) Fall of Firebase Ripcord
-Didn’t know a lot about the events surrounding the end of the battle of Firebase Ripcord
-Knew about D Company being sent to rescue A Company
-Firebase Ripcord was evacuated on July 23, and American bombers destroyed the base
(00:50:47) Life at Camp Evans
-Fell into a routine
-Wrote letters on behalf of the captain for the men killed-in-action
-Wrote more letters than he wished he’d had to
-A good friend of his was killed-in-action

�-D Company made some random contact after Ripcord
-122mm rockets hit Camp Evans at least once a week
-Learned how to take cover, fast
-Didn’t sleep well
-Lived in tin shacks with sandbags on top of the shacks
-Had a barber, a PX (Army general store), a hospital, and a helipad for gunships
-Also had an enlisted/NCO club and an officers’ club
-Had Vietnamese civilians working at the barber shop and PX
(00:54:30) Drug Use &amp; Racial Tensions
-Saw men using drugs at Camp Evans
-Most men used weed, but there was some heroin use
-Told not to talk about the heroin use
-Caught a Vietnamese scout with heroin and turned him over to the military police
-Units still functioned despite drug use, but some soldiers had severe problems
-Drugs were a problem in the rear, but not in the field
-There was racial tension at Camp Evans, and it got worse over the course of 1970
-Issues and attitudes imported from the United States
-More aware of issues because he’d had law-enforcement training in college
(00:58:20) R&amp;R
-Went to Australia for his R&amp;R
-Chose Australia because he wanted to get out of Southeast Asia
-Treated well by the Australians
-Didn’t notice any anti-war or anti-American sentiments
-Explored Sydney for a few days
-Visited New South Wales Conservation Office
-Spent time with a conservation officer and his family
-Kept in touch with them after the war
-Saw a lot of the Australian wildlife
-Took his R&amp;R after he was ¾ done with his tour in Vietnam
(01:01:24) Progress of Vietnam War
-Noticed the “Vietnamization” process, but it was not as prevalent in I Corps
-Note: Vietnamization – term used to describe transfer of fighting duties to South Vietnam
-Heard about the Americal Division (23rd Infantry Division) and 4th Infantry Division leaving Vietnam
(01:03:30) Work at Camp Evans
-He took his job seriously
-Knew how to do his job and did it well
-Gave good updates to units in the field, and also managed personnel and supplies well
-Processed incoming replacements
-Tried to prepare them for when they joined their units
-Did a lot of work on his own
(01:06:27) End of Tour &amp; End of Service
-Knew about a month before his tour ended that he was nearing the end
-Wrote a letter to the Chief Game Warden of Wyoming about getting his old job back
-Received his orders to return to the United States
-Checked out of D Company, out of 2nd Battalion, and finally out of the 101st Airborne Division
-Went to Na Trang, to Saigon, and flew to Fort Lewis, Washington
-Filed a lot of paperwork at Fort Lewis and got a new uniform
-Offered a chance to reenlist, which he declined

�(01:09:47) Coming Home
-He flew home in uniform
-Got hassled by protesters at the Seattle airport
-Protesters taunted him, and targeted soldiers with the Combat Infantry Badge
-Came as a surprise to him, because he didn’t think it would happen to him
(01:11:35) Life after the War
-Didn’t get his old job back
-Given a temporary assignment in Casper, Wyoming, as a deputy
-Did that for a month
-Conducted patrols and maintained the grounds for the Department of Wildlife
-After his supervisor degraded him for being a Vietnam War veteran he received transfer orders
-En route to his new assignment he stopped in Rawlins, Wyoming
-Knew the sheriff there, and the sheriff offered Lin a job with the department
-He worked with the department for seven years
-Returned to the Wyoming Game and Fish Department to work as an investigator
(01:15:10) Reflections on Service
-Learned patience
-Learned how to take orders
-He would do it again, if he had to, for love of his country

�</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Vietnam War
Dennis Bassett

Interview Length: (01:53:58:00)
Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:10:00)
 Bassett was born in February, 1942, in Grand Rapids, Michigan, where Bassett’s father
worked for General Motors and his mother was a stay-at-home mom for Bassett and his
two younger brothers; Bassett attended Ottawa Hills High School before graduating in
1960 (00:00:10:00)
 After graduating from high school, Bassett thought about his life and decided he had to
do something different; he wanted to see different things, have a different pace, and not
follow a traditional route (00:00:59:00)
o Bassett did not believe he was ready for more schooling, so he decided to join the
Army (00:01:13:00)
 When Bassett joined the Army in 1960, the divide was roughly fifty-fifty between
enlistees and draftees; the draftees tended to be a little older while the enlistees tended to
be eighteen- and nineteen-year-olds (00:01:29:00)
o There were a lot of “buddy plans” at the time, so Bassett enlisted with a man from
his church who went on to be a doctor and another man who went into the Air
Force (00:01:41:00)
o Bassett believes that if someone did not want to go to school or work a steady job,
as well as a sense of service and doing something for the country were common
reasons why a person joined the military (00:01:56:00)
o When Bassett enlisted, he wanted to serve overseas, although he did not know
specifically where he wanted to go (00:02:24:00)
 After enlisting and saying good bye to his parents, Bassett was placed on a bus and sent
to Fort Wayne in Detroit, where he was sworn into the Army, given a set of fatigues, and
told to get something to eat; the next day, a train took Bassett to Louisville, Kentucky,
where he was placed on another bus, taking to a basic training reception center, assigned
to a basic training company, given his equipment, and told to be ready the next morning
for his basic training (00:02:42:00)
o Bassett went to Fort Knox, Kentucky for basic training, which was an armored
training center, making the base fairly large; however, from Bassett’s perspective,
the base was about three streets because he could not leave the area he was
assigned unless he was taken someplace or marched someplace (00:03:29:00)
o Basic training was intended to regiment everyone to the group, so the Army began
by cutting everyone’s hair, giving the soldiers all the same uniform, making them
show up on time, and making the soldiers work as a group (00:04:02:00)
 Basic training focused on basic military skills and as a soldier’s career
progressed, then the training got larger; in basic training, the soldiers were
supposed to learn how to shoot, how to march, and how to cooperate with

�







people because when they left basic training, the soldiers went as an
individual to an organization and were expected to fit in (00:04:17:00)
o Bassett went through training with a mix of both white and black soldiers and the
soldiers tended to come from specific areas, such as Pennsylvania; there were a
few soldiers who had come to the United States on educational visas, dropped out
of college, were in the country, and were drafted (00:04:47:00)
 Bassett’s training unit had a German and an Argentinean, who were quite
surprised to find themselves in the Army (00:05:23:00)
 Mostly soldiers adjusted to military life quickly because it was a time
when most men were disciplined already (00:05:38:00)
o The only major conflict at the time involved Cuba, so the rumor throughout the
soldiers was that they were going to go to Cuba (00:05:51:00)
Basic training lasted for eight weeks and was followed by Advanced Individual Training,
which Bassett took at Fort Knox; if someone had a different specialty, then he went to a
different base for his advanced training (00:06:11:00)
o During the advanced training, the Army’s control loosened somewhat but the
soldiers still had to be at certain places at certain times; during advanced training,
the soldiers were allowed to wear civilian clothes as opposed to basic training,
when they could not (00:06:29:00)
o During training, everybody slept in double bunks, there were no private rooms or
co-ed facilities, and public bathroom and showers (00:06:44:00)
Advanced training lasted for about another eight weeks, after which, the soldiers were
assigned to their units; after the eight weeks, Bassett was sent to Korea (00:07:00:00)
o After advanced training, Bassett was told to go home and the Army would send
him a ticket; however, then he was told to go home, given some money, and told
to get to the Oakland Army terminal by a certain date (00:07:14:00)
o In January 1961, Bassett went to the airport in Grand Rapids, flew to Chicago and
then took another flight to California (00:07:33:00)
In Oakland, Bassett and the other soldiers were in a holding position where the Army
kept constant track of them; there was a morning formation and a formation when they
brought the flag down and in the mean time, the soldiers just hung around (00:08:16:00)
o The soldiers were waiting for a ship because that was how they were getting to
Korea; when the ship finally came in, all the soldiers were loaded onto trucks,
driven down to the pier, unloaded, along with all their equipment, boarded the
ship, and were told to find a berth (00:08:36:00)
o Bassett spent about seven days in Oakland and during those seven days, he did
not leave the base once (00:09:02:00)
The soldiers were eventually placed aboard a troop ship that had probably been around
for a long time (00:09:12:00)
o If a soldier got the lower bunk, he was about four inches off the floor, and get in,
the soldier laid on the floor and scooted in; if a soldier had the top bunk, four
bunks up, he had to climb over everyone’s bunk to reach his (00:09:24:00)
 If the soldier on the top bunk got seasick, he threw up on the soldier in the
bunk below him, who threw up on the soldier below him, until it reached
the bottom bunk, where that soldier just moved away (00:09:43:00)

�

o

o

o

o

Bassett originally got the bottom bunk but moved up later on to the second
bunk (00:09:56:00)
 The rule was the soldiers slept head to feet to stop the spread of infectious
disease; because the soldiers had to double bunk, everyone slept with
someone’s feet by his head and his feet by someone’s head (00:10:03:00)
When the soldiers woke up in the morning, they all went to the mess hall to eat
before going on deck, where they stayed, no matter the weather, until they were
brought down for the noon meal, which could take an hour (00:10:22:00)
 After the noon meal, the soldiers went back to the deck and stayed there
until dinner, then went back to their bunks (00:10:42:00)
Because they were sailing in January, the weather was terrible; it was cold and
windy but in a sense, Bassett was lucky because he received an assignment to
paint the brig with three other soldiers (00:10:47:00)
 The combination of paint fumes and the movement of the ship would
make the soldiers nauseous and in order to take care of the nausea, the
soldiers had to climb from the belly of the ship to the deck and grab some
air before heading back down (00:11:13:00)
The voyage to Korea took twenty-eight days and the ship stopped in Japan, where
the Army had arranged for the soldiers to get off the ship (00:11:38:00)
 The ship sailed into Yokohama, where the soldiers were placed on trucks
and driven to Camp Drake, where the soldiers ate and then received some
free time (00:11:49:00)
 During the free time, the soldiers could go to downtown Yokohama, some
soldiers did, and some lost their money; as far as ships coming in, the
Japanese had a well-orchestrated plan to deprive the unwary of their few
dollars and cents (00:12:14:00)
After spending a night in Yokohama, the soldiers re-boarded the ship and sailed
into Inchon (00:12:38:00)

Korean Deployment (00:12:45:00)
 Once he arrived in Korea, Bassett was assigned to the 6th Medical Depot, which was
located between Inchon and Seoul and divided into four sections, each with a different
assignment (00:12:45:00)
o The medical section supported the 121st Evac. Hospital, which was located on hill
while the 55th Quartermaster was the depot’s quartermaster section and there was
a signal compound next to the quartermaster compound; each compound was
surrounded by fence, with adjoining middle fences and a fence leading out to the
street and there was also an engineering compound (00:13:24:00)
 At the time, the 121st Evac. Hospital served as the major military hospital
for all of Korea (00:13:51:00)
o There were around one hundred and fifty soldiers working in the depot, which
was primarily a warehouse (00:14:14:00)
 Bassett was first assigned to help the clerks, then moved up to guard duty, and was finally
assigned to be in charge of finance because the previous soldier had gotten sick and never
came back (00:14:22:00)

�







o While in charge of finance, Bassett was told he had to do payroll and when
Bassett said he knew nothing of how to do payroll, the commander said too bad,
handed him two books about payroll and said there was a payroll out in about two
weeks, so Bassett needed to get to work (00:14:37:00)
o After the first pay day, there was a line of soldiers saying that Bassett had screwed
up their pay, so Bassett had to recalculate for each soldier (00:15:07:00)
o The next pay day, there were soldiers complaining that Bassett had taken money
away from them; Bassett had overpaid the soldiers the first time, so he had to take
the money back (00:15:20:00)
o After the first couple of pay days, everything settled down and Bassett became a
mediocre finance person, although he did not, and still does not, know anything
about payroll (00:15:38:00)
During off-duty time, Bassett played softball for eighteen games in the summer
(00:15:55:00)
o It was about eight years after the supposed end of the Korean War and the soldiers
could get a bus from the tour special services that would take the soldiers up north
or to other places; however, the soldiers did not have any cars and there were not
any taxis (00:16:19:00)
Sometimes, the soldiers would have to pick up medicines that came in from Japan that
needed immediate refrigeration; if a soldier was a designated driver, then he drove with
an escort to the railroad station or airfield to pick up the medicine and that was when the
soldiers were able to go into Seoul (00:16:39:00)
o When the soldiers would go to the railroad station, there were Korean kids who
wanted to shine the soldiers’ shoes; thirty years later, when Bassett was at Armed
Forces Staff College, there was an adopted Korean student, so Bassett told the
student about his time in Korea (00:17:29:00)
 The student told Bassett that when he was eight or nine, he would go to
the railroad station to shine shoes, so it was quite possible the student tried
to shine Bassett’s boots while Bassett was in Korea (00:18:20:00)
At the time, the airport in Seoul could not handle commercial aircraft because it had no
terminal; when Bassett flew out of the airport to go on R&amp;R to Japan, he went into a
small building, showed his leave papers, and was told to go stand outside because the
office was not big enough for him to wait inside (00:19:12:00)
o Overall, Seoul itself had not recovered much from the Korean War; meanwhile, in
the villages outside the city, there was barely electricity, there was no sewage
system, the women still washed clothes in creeks with rocks, etc. (00:19:46:00)
Because the medical depot was akin to a warehouse, the soldiers had some Koreans
working in the warehouse alongside them; however, the Koreans would leave the base at
night and go wherever they went (00:20:16:00)
o There was also some secretarial support from the Koreans and although Bassett
does not necessarily know if the soldiers needed help from the Koreans, either in
the warehouse or otherwise, it was good for community support (00:20:31:00)
o The nearby village somewhat supported itself off the base because it was a village
of bars and whores (00:20:52:00)
 Soldiers did tend to get into trouble when they went into the village but it
happened in degrees; there were fights in the bars between soldiers, but

�






not often, some soldiers found a Korean woman and “went native”
(00:21:15:00)
 As a rule, Bassett felt safe going into villages (00:22:02:00)
 On some occasions, the soldiers could hunt; the soldiers could check
shotguns out from special services, rent a jeep from the motor pool, and go
up into the hills to shoot pheasants (00:22:10:00)
Bassett spent eighteen months in Korea, which was longer than a standard tour because
the Berlin Wall was built and the Army put a stand-down on all movement, meaning all
soldiers stayed put (00:22:37:00)
o At that time, the soldiers were always going on alert out of fear that the Korean
War might start up again (00:23:10:00)
 The depot was further north, thus closer to the DMZ, than Seoul, and was
about ninety seconds by jet with afterburners from the border; as well,
Seoul, and everything to the north, including the depot, was within range
of artillery fire from beyond the DMZ (00:23:21:00)
 Every now and then, the North Koreans would cross over the DMZ and
whenever they did, the soldiers received alerts and had to fall out and draw
their weapons (00:23:44:00)
o The planners always looked at things as if something in Berlin was a deception to
something that might happen in Korea or if something in Korea was meant to
draw attention away from something in Berlin or Cuba (00:23:57:00)
o Because of the Berlin Wall going up, all the soldiers were extended for ninety
days on their tour (00:24:19:00)
o At the time, there were firing incidents on the border between the North and the
South but Bassett does not believe that the news always reported it (00:24:29:00)
 The DMZ was patrolled by both South Korean and American forces who
literally walked along a fence-line; there were incursions, which involved
shooting, from one side of the border to the other and mostly, it was North
Korea trying to provoke something (00:24:38:00)
 Those things happened but they were not reported directly to the soldiers
and were never reported in the national news (00:25:02:00)
 The 121st would have been the closest hospital, although the individual
divisions would have had their own medical clinics; the clinics would
have done the first medical support and if there were wounded, then they
were brought to the 121st (00:25:19:00)
At one point, Bassett got to go to Japan, which was a perk although it was the only place
the soldiers could fly to, and they spent a week there (00:25:57:00)
o Bassett went with another soldier and received accommodations at a military
hotel in Tokyo, where they wore civilian clothes, ate their meals, and spent the
night, for a small fee, all while seeing the sights of Tokyo (00:26:08:00)
 During World War II, the Japanese Army and Navy had meet in the hotel
to plan a revolt against the Japanese government (00:26:32:00)
Bassett originally enlisted for a three-year tour while on the other hand, a draftee
automatically received a two-year enlistment (00:27:27:00)
When he came back from Korea, Bassett was an E-3, a PFC, meaning he did not have a
stake in his military future nor did anyone ever ask him for his opinion (00:27:47:00)

�o Bassett returned from Korea on a ship, was dropped off back in Oakland, and told
that he was on his own, so he had to buy his own ticket home (00:27:59:00)
 On the flight home, Bassett was one of the first men to fly on a 707
airliner; at one point, he sat next to a woman who brought Bassett back to
her house, fed him, and took him back to the airport (00:28:19:00)
o When Bassett got into Grand Rapids, he did not have any orders, which was
uncommon; Bassett ended up going to the local recruiter's office to ask how long
he was supposed to stay home and where he would be going but all he was told
was orders would be sent to him (00:28:46:00)
 The entire situation was interesting because a PFC was normally sent to a
replacement depot on a base and was farmed out from there based upon a
unit’s needs; a PFC did not receive specific orders (00:29:07:00)
 Eventually, Bassett received by-name orders from the Pentagon telling
him where to go, which was the 2nd Ranger Company in Dahlonega,
Georgia (00:29:27:00)
o Although Bassett did not know where exactly Dahlonega was, he knew it was in
Georgia, so he took a bus to Atlanta; eventually, someone asked where he needed
to go and when Bassett told them, the person told him to be there the next
morning (00:29:55:00)
 The next morning, a bus took Bassett into the Blue Ridge Mountains; the
bus eventually stopped and Bassett was told he was in Dahlonega and it
was where he needed to get off (00:30:16:00)
 Once off the bus, Bassett walked into the local drug store and asked where
he needed to go; a woman in the store told him to call a number, he did so,
said he was in Dahlonega, and was told to stay there and they would come
pick him up (00:30:46:00)
 An hour later, a jeep came, picked Bassett up, and took him another
twelve miles into the mountains (00:31:03:00)
Ranger School / Inter-Service Years (00:31:24:00)
 Dahlonega was one of several Ranger training locations at the time and consisted
rappelling, mountaineering, patrol and ambushing, designed to be if the soldiers were
operating in mountainous, woody terrain in the enemy’s rear (00:31:24:00)
o The school consisted of seventeen staff members divided between the cadre, who
had gone through Ranger school, and soldiers who supported the cadre; although
Bassett was not an instructor, he worked with the instructors (00:32:02:00)
 When Bassett went back to the school as a student in 1967, the cadre knew
who he was and pressured him the most; however, after pressuring
Bassett, the cadre would pull him aside to make sure he was doing okay
and see how he was doing (00:32:52:00)
o While at Dahlonega, Bassett worked in Operations and Training for a captain and
a sergeant, where he set up the operation orders for the students (00:34:12:00)
 Bassett was stationed at Dahlonega for eighteen months, completing the other half of his
three-year enlistment; once his enlistment ended, Bassett decided to get out of the
military and go to college, although his comrades suggested he stay in the military and
attend OCS (00:35:09:00)

�



o When Bassett was in basic training, he took a series of tests and when the scores
came back, he and some other soldiers were told to fall out; once they did so, the
soldiers were told they had scored high enough to go to OCS, although Bassett
did not want to go; however, the military said they could send him to OCS and
Ranger School (00:35:30:00)
 In 1963, Bassett knew lieutenants who were forming the precursor units to
the modern Special Forces and those units were going to fighting
someplace in Southeast Asia (00:36:07:00)
 However, at one point or another, Bassett would hear that one of
the lieutenants had been killed, although there were only advisors
in Southeast Asia; even today, someone could go to the Ranger
training battalion and see the names of the these soldiers on street
signs (00:36:38:00)
At the end of his enlistment, Bassett decided he needed to get an education because it
gave him an out, so he turned down OCS, went back to Grand Rapids, attended junior
college, and got married (00:37:17:00)
o When he got home, Bassett got a job working nights at a hospital during the week
and days on the weekend, which amounted to a forty-hour-a-week job, and he met
his future wife at the hospital (00:37:35:00)
o After two years at junior college, Bassett needed to move on, so he ended up
attending Western Michigan University, where he graduated with a degree in
Business Marketing and a minor in Psychology (00:37:53:00)
 Because he had three years of enlisted time, Bassett joined the ROTC for
his final two years in college and the government gave him a National
Defense loan, which helped Bassett and his wife get through, because by
then, they had had a child (00:38:19:00)
 At the time, the only kind of jobs Bassett could get included
working at a juice company (00:38:42:00)
 Although Bassett received the GI Bill early in the framework, it
came late for him personally because he only received funding for
a year (00:39:10:00)
o Because Bassett had done ROTC in his final two years, once he received his
degree, he also received a commission and the Army told him to go to Fort
Benning, Georgia (00:39:47:00)
When Bassett got to Fort Benning, he was told that because he was a Regular Army
officer, he was on a different track from a Reserve Army officer (00:39:54:00)
o If someone was a distinguished ROTC student, then he could be offered a
commission in the Regular Army (00:40:09:00)
o Soldiers who received a Regular Army commission were different from other
commissioned officers because although everyone went through a five-week basic
course, after the basic course, all Regular Army-commissioned officers went
through Ranger School while the non-Regular Army-commissioned officers went
through a different three-month course (00:40:48:00)
 When someone was commissioned, he was asked what branch he wanted
to be commissioned in; if someone was non-Regular Army, he went
directly to that branch while if someone was Regular Army, he would

�

have to serve two years in a combat arm: Infantry, Armor, or Artillery,
then he could go to the branch he desired (00:41:23:00)
o Bassett did the five-week course with all the officers then went to Ranger school
and if somebody made it through Ranger school at the time, then he went to
Vietnam (00:41:51:00)
 On the other hand, if someone took the other track, he also ended up in
Vietnam; there were very few who did not go to Vietnam (00:42:07:00)
 During the five-week course, the soldiers did PT and training in the
morning, ate lunch, and then had classroom work in the afternoon
(00:42:18:00)
 In the classes, the soldiers learned how to call in artillery, map
reading, military history, military law, the quartermaster system,
medical training, and information about Vietnam (00:42:59:00)
o The classes were mostly done with slideshows, so the
soldiers took notes and tests (00:43:24:00)
 After learning about something in a class, the soldiers would go
into the field and do practical applications (00:44:04:00)
 The time assisting at Ranger School helped Bassett because he had already
walked all the patrols, although it did not help him in the three-week basic
course, which was a culling course to weed out the weak and make the
soldiers who wanted to quit actually quit (00:44:28:00)
 If a soldier was having trouble with the daily rucksack run, the
other soldiers were told not to expend their energy carrying him
because the soldier was not going to make it (00:44:50:00)
 Once they reached the mountain phase, Bassett knew the
mountains, knew what was going on, the patrols and exercises the
soldiers went on, how the soldiers were graded, etc. (00:45:16:00)
o After completing Ranger school, Bassett deployed to Vietnam (00:45:44:00)
At that time, there was a public law saying that someone had to spend one hundred and
eighty-one days in the United States before deploying overseas, so once he completed his
officers training, Bassett was assigned to the 197th Brigade at Fort Benning, a unit all
lieutenants on the base went to, which created an interesting mix (00:45:48:00)
o At the time, there were three classes in 197th (00:46:14:00)
 The first class were captains, who always hung together and did not talk
with lieutenants coming out of Ranger school; the captains had already
completed one tour, had come back, and were killing time until they began
their second tour (00:46:14:00)
 The second class were the lieutenants who had deployed but come back
early or had just come back, often with an injury (00:46:42:00)
 The third and final class were the new lieutenants, such as Bassett; nobody
wanted to talk to them because they had not done anything or been to
Vietnam (00:47:10:00)
 In the third class, there were lieutenants waiting for their one
hundred and eighty-one days to be up as well as lieutenants who
had just crossed the one hundred and eighty-one days, which

�

meant they were going and which also meant there was a constant
rotation within the class (00:47:32:00)
 Once a lieutenant reached the top of the order and closed in on the
one hundred and eighty-one days, he began receiving feedback
about the lieutenants who had goon before him, including those
who had been killed or wounded (00:47:51:00)
o Bassett was in the 197th in the middle part of 1968, following the first wave of the
Tet Offensive, which partially explained the high casualty number (00:48:46:00)
 When Bassett flew out of Grand Rapids to deploy to Vietnam, there was
another man from his class on the flight, but he did not make it
(00:49:03:00)
When Bassett’s orders to Vietnam came up, he and his family, who was at Fort Benning
with him, drove to Grand Rapids to say hello to his family and watch pitcher Denny
McClain throw a game (00:49:28:00)
o When he deployed, Bassett went to Fort Lewis, Washington, waited with other
soldiers until there was a full planeload of soldiers and once there was, flew to
Vietnam aboard a chartered Pan Am airplane (00:50:00:00)
 On the flight over, the stewardesses were great; the stewardesses were on
the flights both taking soldiers to Vietnam and bringing soldiers home and
Bassett believes the stewardesses were able to pick up on the apprehension
of the former and the happiness of the latter (00:50:24:00)

Vietnam Deployment (00:51:04:00)
 When Bassett arrived in Vietnam, he and the other lieutenants were told to be somewhere
the following morning because there would be a roster to be called off; when someone’s
name was called off, he departed and was told to go to someplace at a certain time to pick
up his orders (00:51:04:00)
o Bassett originally had orders for the 1st Air Cavalry Division, so he read as much
as he could about the area where the Division was located; however, when they
called of his name, Bassett was assigned to the 9th Infantry Division, which was in
a different Corps, had no mountains, and Bassett knew nothing (00:51:36:00)
 At the time, the 9th Division was located in the Mekong Delta region,
south of Saigon (00:52:40:00)
 Bassett believes part of the reason he went to the 9th Infantry was because
of the Tet Offensive; had everything been even, he might of gone to the 1st
Air Cav. but if there were a lot of losses in the south, then the Army
diverted people and they became “filler” (00:52:45:00)
o Bassett’s first impression of Vietnam was that it was humid, the language
sounded different and the air smelled different; however, Bassett had already been
to Korea, so he was not shocked and awed by what he experienced (00:53:17:00)
o Bassett knew what was going on in Vietnam and volunteered to go; he had
graduated from college in 1967 and the war had been going on for a long time by
then (00:53:28:00)
 When soldiers would deploy, they would go to a reception center and then fly to a base;
once at the base, the soldier was allowed to let Vietnam settle in, including more training,

�



getting acclimated to the weather, going out on patrols with live ammunition, being
updated with all of their shots, etc. (00:54:10:00)
o At that time, Bassett got to know other people, started to bond with other people,
and by the time the acclimation ended, his sleep cycle was better, he knew how
the latrine worked, etc. (00:55:05:00)
o Eventually, the soldiers received orders to go to a room that would have a list
telling each soldier when to be at the airfield so he could be picked up
(00:55:35:00)
 Sometimes the plane would come in and sometimes it would not; when the
plane would not come, the base personnel would say there were no more
aircraft and tell the soldiers to go back to their billets (00:55:51:00)
While in Vietnam, the 9th Infantry moved from its original position near Saigon to a
position further south, in Dong Tam (00:56:06:00)
o Before the Tet Offensive, the 9th Infantry’s objective was going after Viet Cong
main force units, which were enemy units, mostly battalions, with large numbers
of soldiers; however, after the Tet Offensive, the enemy units were so decimated
that the division was going after enemy companies and later, squads
(00:57:14:00)
 As the 9th Infantry continued operating, the enemy units became smaller
and smaller for survival, although the division occasionally came across
full main force battalions (00:57:50:00)
o The unit Bassett was assigned to once he joined the 9th Infantry was part of the
Riverine Force, so the soldiers in the unit stay aboard ships and went to war in
either helicopters or landing craft (00:58:11:00)
 There were two motherships because there were two battalions, the 4th of
the 47th and the 3rd of the 60th and Bassett was assigned to Alpha
Company, 3rd of the 60th, as the 2nd Platoon leader (00:58:28:00)
After Bassett joined Alpha Company, because the enemy units had been broken down so
much, he seldom worked with the company and spent most of his time working with only
his platoon, a fact he finds amazing (00:59:36:00)
o At that time, platoons did not consist of over thirty people and constant rotation
always caused changes so that if Bassett was full up, he had maybe twenty-one or
twenty-two soldiers (00:59:53:00)
o There were so few soldiers in the platoon that Bassett did not use squad leaders,
although he had them; instead, Bassett used the platoon sergeant as a squad leader
and Bassett himself became a squad leader (01:00:05:00)
 When they moved, Bassett moved the platoon together and if he wanted to
maneuver, then he broke the platoon down (01:00:15:00)
o Generally, one way or another, the soldiers ended up on a helicopter, on what they
called an “eagle flight”, which were basically air insertions (01:00:27:00)
 The soldiers would load up into six helicopters with usually two escorts,
either Cobras or Hueys with rockets; no one would tell the soldiers where
they were going, only that they were being inserted (01:00:38:00)
 The attack processed was choreographed so that after the escorts flew in
and fired their rockets, the transport helicopters would fly the soldiers in
before leaving (01:01:15:00)

�





After clearing the LZ, the soldiers would go for a stroll and see what they
could kick up; before a mission, Bassett would be given a grid square,
which was one thousand meters square, told he was somewhere within that
square and told to see what he could find out (01:01:48:00)
 The theory was the enemy spread out and the Americans needed to fan
their soldiers out from a central hub to control the area; although Bassett
did not know where he was, someone did (01:02:01:00)
o Bassett always operated with a radio operator and although he did not have one
personally, the company commander always had a forward observer with him to
call in artillery (01:02:21:00)
The first time Bassett went out with his platoon, the company was in a village providing
support for Dong Tam; the platoon came in from the woods and after Bassett met the
company commander, he joined the platoon (01:02:51:00)
o Bassett did not meet the person he was replace because the officer had been killed
during the Tet Offensive [probably the mini-Tet in May, rather than the original
offensive in February] (01:03:19:00)
o When Bassett joined the platoon, his platoon sergeant was not a seasoned veteran;
instead, the sergeant had gone through the accelerated NCO program, which gave
extended training to an NCO for another stripe (01:03:47:00)
 When he arrived, Bassett asked the sergeants what the platoon had done
for the last week, where the platoon had gone, what the sergeant knew,
what Bassett had to watch out for, and where the platoon had spent the
night (01:04:05:00)
 Bassett said the platoon was going to move and when the sergeants
suggested otherwise because it was late, Bassett said the platoon was
moving because he did not want the platoon to spend the night in the same
place twice (01:04:18:00)
 Bassett’s training made him as prepared as he could be and
although the soldiers in the platoon initially did not want to move
at night, by the time Bassett was done with them, they moved
frequently at night (01:04:36:00)
 If the enemy knew where the platoon was a night, they could send
mortars in or ambush the platoon, so Bassett adopted a series of
tactics to prevent this (01:05:01:00)
o The platoon would wake up in a different place every
morning and would move and stop; Bassett would
reconnaissance a place the platoon would spend the night,
go someplace else, then go back to the place he had done
reconnaissance on earlier (01:05:14:00)
 The platoon got used to the tactics but they did not
like it at first (01:05:42:00)
The commanders often rotated battalions in and out of the job, which was not all that
entirely difficult because the soldiers were in a quasi-friendly area (01:05:55:00)
o There were South Vietnamese regional forces who would sleep in covered
bunkers while Bassett’s soldiers had to sleep in the mud (01:06:12:00)

�o Bassett took steps to ensure the safety of the platoon, including taking some of the
key people in the platoon and going into villages (01:06:33:00)
 Once the platoon had set up for the night, Bassett would tell his platoon
sergeant that they were going to go for a little walk, so they would go with
some tiger scouts, former VC who had switched sides, and Bassett would
take them on a Ranger patrol on the outskirts of a village (01:06:47:00)
 The soldiers would settle in at the outskirts and Bassett would tell the tiger
scout to just listen to hear what the villagers were saying (01:07:18:00)
 During these smaller patrols, Bassett and the soldiers had to watch out for
ducks, which would cause a tremendous racket, which acted as a great
alert system for the village (01:07:33:00)
 If the scout heard a conversation, which was uncommon because the
villagers tended to go to bed early, then Bassett would exchange sign
language with his soldiers and while maneuvering them around the hut, he
and the scout would go inside the hut to see who the occupants were
talking to and quite often, they caught the enemy (01:07:48:00)
 One time, they managed to capture a VC lieutenant who was home
on leave (01:08:20:00)
 The soldiers would call in someone to take the enemy away and
either the wife or mother of the soldier would have a fit, so Bassett
would have the scout tell them that the soldiers were not going to
kill their loved one (01:08:30:00)
 The people the soldiers captured often divulged information but if Bassett
was ever wrong, then they released the person (01:08:45:00)
 By being active, Bassett and his soldiers set the time-table for how the
enemy would be able to operate (01:09:00:00)
o During the dry season, the platoon would spend around five or six nights in the
field but during the rainy season, the platoon would only spend around three or
four nights out because they were always wet, especially after walking through
rice paddies (01:09:15:00)
 If the soldiers walked on the rice paddy dikes, there were often booby
traps on the dikes, so the soldiers often had to walk in the rice paddies
themselves, although the locals tended to sometimes know where the
booby traps would be on a dike (01:09:43:00)
 One time, the platoon was working in an a semi-friendly area and a
farmer with two water buffalo was working in a rice paddy; as the
platoon went by, the farmer said something quietly to one of the
tiger scouts and the scout said the farmer had said that there were
two booby-traps in front of the platoon (01:10:01:00)
 A day later, the platoon was in the same area and there were two
packs of cigarettes outside the farmer’s village doorway from the
platoon; it was the platoon’s way of saying thank you without
burning one of their sources (01:10:34:00)
o In the sector where the platoon operated, Bassett and his small group would patrol
to see who was there but just their presence counteracted the presence of the
enemy (01:11:14:00)

�



If the soldiers sat back in a little shell, then the enemy controlled
everything around them but if the soldiers changed their schedule, then the
enemy had to change their schedule (01:11:28:00)
When the platoon was on the move for a four-day operation in a known hostile area, they
could possibly exchange fire with the enemy four times, although the platoon was never
ambushed (01:12:05:00)
o The Delta area was all rice paddies, then a stream with villages in the woodline
near the stream; when the soldiers went through the woodline, then there were
more rice paddies and the order repeated itself (01:12:42:00)
o Walking thorough the rice paddies, the soldiers went up and down because of
berms; the soldiers did not want to walking into the woodline because that was
where they could be shoot at but if the soldiers got into the woodline, then they
were able to shoot at the enemy (01:13:01:00)
o If someone watches the History Channel, then they see footage of the
camouflaged enemy and although sometimes the enemy was good, there were
some times when they were not as good (01:13:32:00)
 There were times that the soldiers caught the enemy joking around with
each other (01:13:51:00)
 One time, the platoon came off the river and while hacking their
way through a stand of bamboo, they found three hidden Honda
motorcycles; Bassett figured that the motorcycles were either
stolen or the enemy’s, so the soldiers blew them up (01:14:08:00)
o The soldiers continued through the bamboo and crossed a
little stream when they heard talking and found three
enemy soldiers sitting and smoking (01:14:45:00)
o Bassett quietly brought the rest of the soldiers up before
standing up and telling the soldiers to come with them;
however, the soldiers chose the other option, which was the
wrong option (01:15:05:00)
o The platoon could get into smaller fights like the one in the bamboo or into larger
fights with the enemy, including fights lasting for a couple of days (01:16:05:00)
 One time, the platoon flew into a main force battalion and landed on top of
them; the platoon lost the first helicopter but Bassett managed to put his
people together (01:16:26:00)
 If a soldier served in the Delta, he had to have a swim qualification
because it was a delta, therefore near the ocean, and the tides
would rise greatly (01:17:19:00)
 At the end of the mission, Bassett swam some of his soldiers out
on an air mattress because everything had flooded (01:17:51:00)
o The fighting was in a coconut plantation with large palm
trees and ditches so that as the water came up, the soldiers
had to pull some of their shorter comrades up because the
water was over their head (01:18:36:00)
 In order to retrieve a dead soldier’s body during the fighting,
Bassett had to take out an enemy machine gun; however, two other

�enemy bunkers began firing, so the other soldiers began laying
down covering fire against the bunkers (01:18:56:00)
o The soldiers managed to get their comrade’s body but had
to pull the body using ropes because they were still under
fire (01:19:36:00)
o As the platoon got the body, Bassett got on top of one of
the bunkers and saw an enemy standing on top one of the
other bunkers, pointing his weapon at Bassett but instead of
firing, the enemy waved; Bassett waved back and began
firing at the other bunker (01:19:43:00)
 Bassett has no idea how the exchange worked but
the enemy soldier allowed the platoon to retrieve
the dead soldier’s body (01:20:11:00)
 In one sense, the platoon landing on the enemy battalion was not
an accident because they found what their commanders were
looking for (01:21:04:00)
 The platoon eventually fell back to a second line of bunkers and
then pulled back further because there was going to be an artillery
strike and that was when the soldiers had to swim out because of
the tidal changes (01:21:09:00)
 The soldiers in platoon were great and several formed a core in the
platoon who Bassett could rely on (01:21:36:00)
o During the fight, another soldier helped Bassett with the
soldiers who could not swim and the equipment; Bassett
would swim into the middle of the river with the air
mattress then the other soldier would swim the other half,
load up the mattress with soldiers and equipment and swim
it back to Bassett (01:22:54:00)
 The soldiers had to spend that night in the field and the water came
up to their waist, so Bassett had pairs sitting back to back while
flares and artillery went off during the night (01:23:19:00)
 The platoon went back into the coconut plantation the next day and
did not end up leaving the plantation until the third day; when the
platoon went in the second time, the soldiers were told that other
forces were going in as well but the soldiers were still acting by
themselves and did not see any other soldiers (01:23:34:00)
 The Americans pounded the area with artillery but ended up losing
a gunship in the process; Bassett’s platoon found the gunship
wreckage but it had burned so much that the soldiers could not tell
pilot from co-pilot (01:23:48:00)
 As with all guerilla wars, the VC hid their dead bodies; they
weighted the bodies down, sunk them in the canals, and then went
back later to get them (01:24:09:00)
o Most fights were short and quick and although the platoon never came across any
large force, the soldiers were always on edge (01:24:35:00)

�





It reached the point that the soldiers in the platoon depended on Bassett and when the
commanders finally pulled him off the line, that was when he received his greatest
compliment (01:25:01:00)
o The new platoon leader came in while the platoon was aboard a ship and after the
new leader arrived, one of the soldiers from the platoon came up and said they
wanted to talk with Bassett (01:25:19:00)
 Bassett said okay and went down to where the troops stayed on the ship
below deck; when he did so, the soldiers told him that they wanted him to
come back and be their platoon leader because the new platoon leader was
going to get all the soldiers killed (01:25:38:00)
 There was no better compliment for Bassett to receive from the soldiers in
the platoon (01:26:01:00)
One battalion of the Riverine Force was always in the field while the other battalion was
“drying out”, especially during the wet season, when it was also get cold, although not as
cold as the Central Highlands; if the temperature got down to 60°, the soldiers were wet,
and it was raining, then it was uncomfortable (01:26:34:00)
o The battalions tended to rotate, going out for a week, coming back for a week,
then repeating the process (01:27:01:00)
o One of the problems the soldiers faced was immersion foot, which is what
happened if a soldier’s foot got wet and did not dry out properly, the skin began to
rot away (01:27:13:00)
 During times when there was sun, Bassett would stop the platoon, have
every other soldier take his boots off, and place their feet in the sun in
order to dry out the soldiers’ feet (01:27:37:00)
 When the platoon went back to the ship, they all smelled funky, which the
Navy hated, so the Navy had a fire hose they used to spray the soldiers
down with before allowing the soldiers back on the ship (01:27:57:00)
 Once aboard the ship, the soldiers changed into fresh clothes and
were under orders to wear only flip-flops and report to the medic
so he could check their feet (01:28:26:00)
o The only other problem the soldiers had in the field were leeches, which were
interesting creatures (01:28:38:00)
 The soldiers could go from one rice paddy to another with nothing then all
of a sudden, each soldier had four or five leeches, although they would
only know by looking for them (01:28:53:00)
 In the field, there were only two ways to get the leeches off: there was
spraying the insect repellant issued by the Army or someone else burning
the head off with a lit cigarette (01:29:05:00)
 Depending on how long a soldier waited until he checked, he could had
leeches all over his body, especially if he was sitting in the water for a
long period (01:29:25:00)
 All the soldiers were afraid of getting leeches near their private parts,
which was always a standing joke (01:29:05:00)
Bassett spent around six or seven months with the battalion (01:30:03:00)

�

o During that time, the size of the enemy forces decreased and part of the reason for
that was that the enemy was better at staying away from the soldiers; on the other
hand, another explanation is the enemy units were simply smaller (01:30:25:00)
o Generally, the soldiers had short bursts and encounters with the enemy, although
every now and then, they ran into larger enemy forces (01:30:36:00)
All the reporters Bassett encountered while in Vietnam were disingenuous people;
Bassett believes that there were probably some good reporters but he did not encounter
any of them (01:31:01:00)
o On occasion, reporters wanted to go with the soldiers into the field but that
depended on where the soldiers were and what they were doing; if there was an
easy way for the reporter to get out, then he or she wanted to go along, and if
there was not, then the reporter did not want to go (01:31:13:00)
 One time, Bassett was on the ship with a reporter when word came down
to get ready for a night insertion; one of the other companies was getting
hit fairly hard, so the soldier would be picked up off the deck of the ship
and taken at night to an LZ (01:31:41:00)
 During that mission, the reporter did not want to go with the
platoon (01:32:01:00)
o Another time, Bassett was chatting with a reporter and the reporter said he had to
write stories his editor wanted or he was out of a job; if the editor wanted shock
and awe stories, then the reporter wrote shock and awe stories (01:32:05:00)
 The reporter said that a story about soldiers mutilating enemy prisoners
went immediately but a story about soldiers helping a village would never
get printed (01:32:30:00)
o As he was about the leave the country, Bassett did an interview with Dan Webster
from CBS News (01:32:45:00)
 The interview began with simple questions but before long, Webster asked
Bassett how long he thought it would be before the South Vietnamese
government fell (01:32:59:00)
 Bassett said that question was predicated on the assumption that the South
Vietnamese government was going to fall and Bassett said that he was not
sure they knew that, so Webster ended the interview (01:33:20:00)
 Another time, Bassett did a LIFE magazine photo-op and was asked the
same question about the South Vietnamese government but in a different
fashion, which was a killer for the interview (01:33:31:00)
 Instead of asking how Bassett’s family was and what he missed,
the reporter wanted to know when everything was going to go
wrong (01:33:47:00)
 Bassett gave the same answer as he gave Webster, which was not
what the reporter wanted to hear (01:33:57:00)
o According to Bassett the reporters were only writing what their bureau chief told
them to write (01:34:07:00)
o There were some great reporters but Bassett did not know them (01:34:13:00)
o For a lot of reporters, their stories depended on if they wanted to leave their hotel
room and go into the field or if they wanted to just take someone else’s story and
use it for their own (01:35:05:00)

�




Apart from watching at night, the soldiers patrolled through the villages during the day;
sometimes, the villagers were in the villages and sometimes, they were not (01:36:03:00)
o Usually, the villages had all the men and most of the women working in the
fields; if they were not working in the fields, then a villager was either making
something to sell in the market, purchasing items from the market, tending their
livestock, or eating (01:36:20:00)
o The villagers would be doing their business and the soldiers would either leave
them alone or chat with them for a little bit (01:36:52:00)
 Sometimes, villagers would tell the soldiers if there were things they did
not like but all in all the soldiers did not spend too much time in the
villages (01:37:02:00)
o A village was a village; there were dirt strips between the buildings, large pieces
of pottery that held water for the dry season and each building had a bunker inside
of it (01:37:13:00)
 In the Delta, whatever the composition of dirt and mud, it became
concrete-like when it dried out, so the entire Delta was full of bunkers and
soldiers would see old, unused bunkers all the time (01:37:37:00)
Bassett’s tactics were to keep moving, not let the enemy know where he was, be erratic in
his behavior and if he was aggressive, then the enemy would move away but if he was
passive, he was in-active and if he was in-active, then he could be targeted (01:38:26:00)
Over the six months Bassett was with the battalion, there was a turn-over amongst the
soldiers and that was part of the problem of the war; the problem was that there was
always three groups of people (01:38:57:00)
o The first group were the short-time soldiers who only had a few months to go
before going home while the second group were the soldiers who had experience
and were fully trained to fight the enemy (01:39:24:00)
o The final group were the soldier who had no idea what was going on, were afraid,
and needed to be taught by the other soldiers; these soldiers could be very
aggressive and confident but also stupid and needed to be taught (01:39:37:00)
 On the other hand, the soldiers who only had a few months to go were not
as likely to stick their heads out (01:40:04:00)
o Bassett feels that the middle group did a good job in helping the soldiers in the
final group (01:40:23:00)
 Unless a soldier was a real self-starter, when stuff hit the fan and kicked
off, first off, combat was noisy and nobody was going to be able to hear
them (01:40:35:00)

Reflections (01:41:09:00)
 During one of his first major contacts, while Bassett was looking for someone to tell him
what to do while everyone else was looking at him, which was a rite of passage for him
(01:41:09:00)
o Once he went through that experience, Bassett realized the soldiers were his and
began giving orders to them (01:42:07:00)
o At different points, Bassett got tuned into an environment so his senses worked
for him and could tell him when something was not right; one soldier, a
Colombian exchange student, said he could smell the enemy (01:42:53:00)

�







For whatever reason, American dogs could not stand the smell of the
Vietnamese while on the other hand, Vietnamese water buffalo could not
stand the smell the soldiers (01:43:57:00)
 After awhile, even the soldiers could pick up scents if the wind blew in the
right direction, especially if it was a large group of people (01:44:29:00)
o There were acts of God involved, such as why some people died and some people
did not, that have Bassett pondering how things like happened (01:45:14:00)
Bassett was never seriously injured; he took a grazing round down his back while he was
crawling forward and shrapnel in his leg from a booby-trapped grenade (01:46:29:00)
o One time, Bassett gave a class in how to find booby-traps to the new soldiers in
an area where one of his tiger scouts nearly died from a booby-trap (01:46:52:00)
 At the time, the platoon was stationed along an old French road as a
security force, so Bassett took the new soldiers, some of whom had only
spent days in the platoon, and told them different scenarios about where
they would find booby-traps (01:47:48:00)
 As he was giving the class, Bassett heard a ping sound and told them all to
get down while he hit the ground; luckily, it was one of the few times he
had a flak jacket on because his side was pelted with rocks (01:48:29:00)
 Bassett had some shrapnel in his legs, so a helicopter picked him up and
took him to a hospital, where a doctor removed the shrapnel (01:48:57:00)
o However, as Bassett thinks back, the grenade might not have been booby-trapped
because he remembers see someone crawling through the undergrowth and firing
several rounds at them (01:49:45:00)
The base camp was secondary; because the battalion was part of the Riverine Force, they
were never in the base camp (01:50:21:00)
o Instead, the soldiers went back to the ship, where the food was good and the Navy
took care of them; living on a ship was not all that bad, although the soldiers had
very little to do (01:50:30:00)
 Every now and then, the soldiers had beer day, although they were not
allowed to drink on the ship; instead, the soldiers went to a pontoon boat
with an ammo shack on it and drank a warm beer before returning to the
ship (01:50:48:00)
 When aboard ship, Bassett watched the other soldiers, wrote letters home,
and chat with the lieutenants he shared his quarters with (01:51:02:00)
At the time, there was a deal where the soldiers could get one in-country R&amp;R, so Bassett
and a group went on Vung Tau (01:51:36:00)
o There were some women there who played tic-tac-toe with the soldiers for money
but Bassett did not do that; he just used the time to get away (01:52:07:00)
o He eventually got sick, flew back the next morning, and was in an ambush
position later that night, although he was still sick (01:52:27:00)
 Behind the soldier’s position was an old village hut with roosters in the
top of it; Bassett was angry because he had had a rotten night and when a
rooster started to crow, he took a c-ration, threw the container and hit the
rooster in the head, killing it instantly (01:53:03:00)

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                  <text>Smither, James&#13;
Boring, Frank</text>
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                <text>Dennis Bassett was born in 1942 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. After graduating from high school in 1960, Bassett decided he wanted a different direction for his life, so he enlisted in the Army. After completing both his basic and advanced training at Fort Knox in Kentucky, Bassett deployed to Korea, where he worked at a medical depot. Once he finished his tour in Korea, Bassett returned to the United States and worked with a Ranger training company in Georgia before receiving his discharge. Following his discharge, Bassett went through four years of college, with the final two years in ROTC and as a result of his time in the ROTC, after his graduation, received a Regular Army commission. After receiving the commission, Bassett went back through Ranger school and deployed to Vietnam, where he served with the 9th Infantry Division in the Mekong Delta region as part of the Riverine Force, and served as a platoon leader in the 3/60 Infantry for the first half of his tour. (see Part 2 for the rest of the story)</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veteran’s History Project
Dennis Bassett part 2
Vietnam / Cold War
Interview Length: (02:29:29:00)

Vietnam Tour Recap (00:00:04:00)
 Bassett’s tour of duty in Vietnam lasted from 1968 through 1969, and he originally as a
platoon leader in Alpha Company, 3rd Battalion, 60th Infantry, 2nd Brigade, 9th Infantry
Division (00:00:04:00)
o The soldiers Bassett commanded were pretty good, although the farm boys were a
little bit better than the city boys because the farm boys were more comfortable
outdoors (00:00:57:00)
 If Bassett made the soldiers comfortable and they knew that Bassett knew
what he was doing, then they would go along (00:01:11:00)
 At certain points of time, the situation would go wrong rapidly and every
would look to Bassett, asking for direction, and these were the moments
Bassett realized he needed to step up and lead the soldiers (00:01:18:00)
 If Bassett did the right thing at the right time, based instinctively
on his training, then the other soldiers followed him (00:01:45:00)
 Of the soldiers that Bassett traveled with at the front of his platoon, one
was a Hispanic from California, another was from Colombia, another was
a potato farmer from Idaho, and another was a kid from Saginaw,
Michigan (00:02:11:00)
 They were normal guys thrown together with different
backgrounds but they coalesced during their tours (00:02:45:00)
 The normal Army policy was to keep an officer as a platoon leader for six months, so
after his six months were up, Bassett was pulled up to be an assistant to the 2nd Brigade
intelligence officer (S-2) (00:03:39:00)
o Because Bassett had a Ranger and an Infantry background, part of his job was
whenever long-range patrols were assigned to 2nd Brigade, he would organize and
oversee their operations; coordinate their drop off/pick up and maintain
communications (00:03:53:00)
 Eventually, the Army brought in a compact, tripod-mounted radar set and they ordered
Bassett to form a team that would erect different radio sets throughout their province
(00:04:50:00)
o Each unit in the brigade designated a soldier, usually someone the commander
wanted to get rid of, and they, along with Bassett, all went to a class about the
radar sets (00:05:16:00)
 The sets were ground reconnaissance radar and Bassett and his men had to
develop a way to get them into the field (00:05:29:00)
 Not all of the men assigned to Bassett were extremely bright; however,
even the mentally dull soldiers would still work, so Bassett would find
jobs that suited them (00:05:41:00)

�

o Eventually, the soldiers developed towers to mount the radar sets on that
separated into two parts and could be erected in various MACV Regional Forces
(RF) compounds around the province (00:06:10:00)
 Bassett did not do much at all except watch as the soldiers went to work;
as it turned out, the soldiers were very clever in doing their work
(00:06:33:00)
o Early on, Bassett had trouble maintaining communications with all his soldiers
because whenever the soldiers mounted a radar set in one of the RF compounds,
they would stay at the compound to show the other soldiers who and what was
around the compound (00:06:50:00)
o At one point, Bassett went on R&amp;R to Hawaii and when he came back, there was
a jeep and trailer waiting for him, with his name, a radar symbol, and the letters
OIC (Officer-In-Charge) written on the top of the spare tire on the back
(00:07:07:00)
o Eventually, Bassett’s NCO said they had set up an antenna so Bassett could talk
with all his soldiers; however, when a captain came around asking if Bassett had
taken an antenna and if it was Bassett’s but Bassett lied and said that they had had
the antenna for months (00:07:32:00)
o When his unit was eventually pulled out of the area, Bassett tried turning in the
equipment that his men had procured but the soldier in charge said he could not
take the equipment because they were not on his records; to this day, Bassett does
not know what happened to his jeep (00:08:09:00)
 Nevertheless, the jeep was very helpful because if one of the radar units
ever went down, since it was a 24/7 operation, Bassett and his men needed
to get a replacement out immediately and they used the jeep and the trailer
to help move equipment (00:08:38:00)
o Bassett does not know exactly how effective the radar sets were because the sets
were only in the testing phase but he and his soldiers still had fun with them
(00:09:32:00)
 On different occasions, Bassett would spend three or four days at a
compound making sure the radars worked properly and at different points,
he would point out enemies to the soldiers in the compound, who would
often launch an M-79 grenade to where Bassett indicated (00:09:40:00)
o The radar sets themselves were no more than a foot and a half tall with a fan
mounted on the back that would sweep back and forth while one of Bassett’s
soldier would be below it, looking at a screen (00:10:30:00)
When Bassett served in the brigade headquarters, the brigade commander was a very
demanding man, although many times, his demands did not make sense (00:12:05:00)
o On a normal day, the commander would return to the headquarters ship and after
eating a meal, would have a meeting with all his staff around seven o’clock in the
evening that lasted roughly two hours (00:12:13:00)
 Some of the time was spent by the commander ranting and raving about
different things and once the meeting was finished, the commander would
give out different missions to accomplish (00:12:34:00)

�



The staff officers would work on the missions while also preparing for the
morning briefing, which was at around five or six o’clock in the morning
(00:12:50:00)
 After the morning briefing, the officers would run a normal cycle before
the evening briefing, which was a very tiresome schedule (00:13:01:00)
 Eventually, the commanding officer began firing officers because the
officers were too confused about their orders (00:13:11:00)
 At one point, the brigade XO was so confused that he introduced
the headquarters company commander as himself, which caused a
small pause; after the incident, the brigade commander fired the
XO and sent him to the 4th Infantry Division (00:13:21:00)
o The only clever staff officer was the brigade S-1, a career major (00:13:59:00)
 The brigade commander was writing so many bad OERs (Officer
Efficiency Reports) and the S-1 recognized the commander was unstable,
so if the S-1 did not like the report, he would change it (00:14:10:00)
 One time, the brigade commander ordered Bassett to be in two different
places simultaneously; Bassett repeated the order and said, “yes sir, can
do” (00:14:30:00)
o The brigade S-3, another major, helped keep stability amongst the officers and
reminded the others that there were still sane people in the world (00:14:53:00)
o The brigade commander had a personal helicopter to fly him to different locations
and it eventually reached the point that soldiers would lie and fake being sick so
they did not have to fly with the commander (00:15:22:00)
o At one point, the commander ordered a lieutenant to keep him updated as to the
situation for a company that had been inserted into the field; when the lieutenant
came back and said the company was not inserted, the commander said he was
certain that it was (00:15:49:00)
 The commander ordered the lieutenant to check again and when the
lieutenant reported that the company had not been inserted, the
commander accused the lieutenant of lying, ordered the lieutenant to get
out of the TOC (Tactical Operations Center), and turning to the brigade S1, said he wanted the lieutenant in the field by morning (00:16:28:00)
 The lieutenant did not know anything about operating in the field, so
Bassett gave him all of his old equipment and the next day, the lieutenant
was in the field; two days later, the lieutenant was wounded (00:16:53:00)
o The brigade commander did not last too long but regardless, there was still
something wrong with him (00:17:27:00)
o Although the original brigade commander was taken out, Bassett does not recall
his replacement because it was nearing the end of his tour and the entire Army
was slowly falling back, with Bassett’s unit being one of the ones selected to be
entirely withdrawn (00:17:44:00)
 The brigade was selected to be pulled out but soldiers from all over the
division were brought in to bring the unit to full strength before it was
brought back to the U.S. (00:18:10:00)
During the brigade’s withdrawal from Vietnam, the soldiers were taken off of ships and
sent to a base camp on land, where they trained in how to properly march (00:18:27:00)

�



o The soldiers were flown out as a group to Seattle, where they had to march
through downtown Seattle in new uniforms the Army had issued (00:18:34:00)
 Peace movement hippies were at the march but they misjudged the
soldiers (00:19:12:00)
 Prior to the march, the soldiers were staying at Fort Lewis, just outside
Seattle, and on the day of the march, all the soldiers loaded into buses and
after the march, they all got back onto buses (00:19:27:00)
 Due to the speed of travel, the time between when soldiers were in country
and in the United States was compressed (00:19:54:00)
 As the soldiers were sitting on the buses, members of the peace movement
kept trying to shove pamphlets and pieces of paper with anti-war slogans
into the windows (00:20:10:00)
 One anti-war guy tried to walk onto Bassett’s bus carrying a Viet
Cong flag and Bassett literally kicked him out (00:20:42:00)
 The soldiers had the buses’ windows down and as the buses started to
move, the hippies kept trying to shove the papers in, so some of the
soldiers began grabbing their arms (00:21:07:00)
o A similar situation happened to Bassett when he was in Maryland (00:21:46:00)
o For Bassett, it was difficult to differentiate between the peace/anti-war movement
and the Viet Cong movement because thirty days prior, if he saw someone
carrying at Viet Cong flag, he shot at them but now, if he saw someone carrying
that flag, he could not do anything (00:21:56:00)
Once their processing was complete, all the soldiers broke up and went to the airport in
Seattle, where Bassett and a group of other soldiers sat in a bar (00:23:14:00)
o In the bar, Bassett and the others “formed a blockade” because they knew that
once they left the bar, they were all going their separate ways (00:23:46:00)
o Civilians would walk up, asking what the soldiers were doing, and the soldiers
would explain that they had just returned from Vietnam; the civilians wanted to
join them but the soldiers would not let them (00:24:02:00)
Eventually, Bassett caught a plane and returned home, although he does not tell anyone
that he was coming home (00:24:43:00)
o No one was at Bassett’s home when he got back, so he waited outside in his
uniform, took his shoes off, stuck his feet in his pool, and waited for his wife to
come home (00:25:09:00)
o Before Bassett had left for Vietnam, there was a loose piece of molding and he
pounded a nail partially into the molding, with the intention that one year later, he
would come back and finish the job (00:25:32:00)
 Bassett partially did that for his family because where they were living, it
was not uncommon to see an Army car driving by; it drove the wives nuts
because sometimes, the cars would slow down in front of their houses to
see an address (00:26:12:00)
 After Bassett was already home, his wife received a phone call reporting
that Bassett had been killed in action; the phone call was not from the
Army but was from peace activists (00:26:30:00)
 Bassett’s wife responded that it was unusually because Bassett was
sleeping in their bed (00:26:58:00)

�Ranger Instructor / Language Training (00:26:58:00)
 Eventually, Bassett received an assignment to the Ranger department (00:27:14:00)
o The Rangers ran three different training bases: one at Fort Benning, Georgia,
another in the mountains at Dahlonega, Georgia, and one in Florida; each base
represented a different phase of Ranger training (00:27:23:00)
o Bassett’s boss in the Rangers happened to be born on exactly the same day and in
the same year as Bassett, although he wanted to fire Bassett on the first day
Bassett was there (00:27:58:00)
 They were supposed to set up a ropes course for the day and Bassett, who
had arrived early, had gone to get the ropes and started hooking the ropes
up; the boss was upset with Bassett because Bassett had not officially
reported to work yet (00:28:10:00)
 The boss had told Bassett to be at a certain spot at a certain time and to get
certain things ready; Bassett had just arrived early to do the work but the
boss did not see Bassett’s car, so he assumed Bassett had not shown up for
work (00:28:27:00)
 Instead, Bassett had already started doing the work and the boss
commended him on his initiative (00:28:38:00)
 Bassett’s second assignment with the Rangers was at Fort Benning working as a lane
instructor, which was instructor who would take the Ranger trainees out and grade them
on their actions (00:29:03:00)
o Usually, each trainee would have a different assignment; none of the trainees
knew what his individual assignment would be but Bassett knew the assignments
for each soldier (00:29:25:00)
 Bassett graded each trainee individually, which meant Bassett always had
to be present; if they were rainy and cold, then Bassett was rainy and cold
(00:29:45:00)
o Although Bassett did have some form of power over the trainees, he was not
allowed to show favoritism; Bassett could do nothing to interface or hint anything
to any of the trainees (00:30:01:00)
o The trainees that Bassett oversaw were both officer trainees and candidates as
well as enlisted personnel (00:30:25:00)
 The Rangers program had two sets of instructors: one set was for the
traditional two-and-a-half month training course and the other set was for
a two-week long OCS training course (00:30:31:00)
 There was also a course for the “shake-n-bake” NCOs, the top-rated NCOs
and enlisted personnel during basic training (00:30:50:00)
 Both the OCS and “shake-n-bake” courses were abbreviated leadership
courses and Bassett was more involved with them over the traditional,
long training course (00:31:10:00)
 After finishing the training course, Bassett and the other instructors would
take the trainees into the woods for a week (00:31:28:00)
 Bassett spent roughly a year working at Fort Benning as a line instructor and the reason
he moved jobs was because according to Army policy, if at the time the received their

�

commission, an officer was Regular Army, which Bassett was, then that officer had to
spend two years in a combat arm, either infantry, armored or artillery (00:31:50:00)
o After the two years, an officer could chose to stay in their particular combat arm
or he could go into a specialized branch; Bassett personally chose to go into
intelligence (00:32:14:00)
After making his decision to go to the intelligence branch, Bassett was sent through a
selection process in Washington D.C. (00:32:44:00)
o When asked what he wanted to do, Bassett said that he did not know and asked
what he could do; Bassett and another man had a circular conversation for several
minutes before the other man suggested Bassett try something (00:32:56:00)
 The other man said Bassett was going to need language training and
suggested Bassett go to German language school; when Bassett asked
where he had to go, the man said he needed to check if Bassett had an
aptitude for studying a foreign language (00:33:14:00)
 The man asked if Bassett was good in math, which Bassett was
not, so the man ordered Bassett back to Fort Benning to take a
foreign language aptitude test (00:33:36:00)
o Bassett went to the testing center at Fort Benning and when he asked what he
needed to pass the test, a man at the center said that they preferred soldiers to pass
the test with at least at 60 or 70 but the lowest minimum was 40 (00:33:54:00)
 Bassett asked what kind of test it was but the man said nothing, except for
Bassett to just take the test (00:34:14:00)
 The aptitude test consisted of a made-up language and Bassett had to pick
out a verb or a specific word; the entire test did not make any sense to
Bassett (00:34:18:00)
 After he finished the test, Bassett turned it into the proctor, who said he
would grade it for Bassett before sending it in officially (00:34:38:00)
 Once he graded the test, the proctor told Bassett that he had gotten an 8, a
score that the proctor did not recall ever seeing before and the proctor said
he did not think Bassett was going to go to language school (00:34:48:00)
o Bassett returned to Washington and the man there said because Bassett had scored
so low, the man could not send Bassett to language school (00:35:01:00)
 Bassett argued that although he was not overly bright, he was very
disciplined and if the man sent him to language school, then Bassett was
going to learn that language (00:35:15:00)
 The man relented, sent Bassett to the language school and true to his word,
Bassett “learned” the language; at the school, Bassett did not learn the
language so much as he memorized it (00:35:22:00)
 Bassett worked four times as hard as everyone else in his classes to
pass, while there were some other men who did not do anything in
the classes but still managed to learn the language (00:35:41:00)
 The hard work eventually paid off when Bassett spent eight years
living in Germany (00:36:07:00)

Germany 1 / Intelligence Training / Philosophical Discussion (00:36:07:00)

�









After completing his language training for German, the Army gave Bassett a deployment
to work in Munich, Germany; when he deployed to Germany, Bassett was allowed to
bring his family with him (00:37:16:00)
Once in Germany, Bassett’s assignment was working in special intelligence collection;
the assignment required Bassett’s German language skills in order to develop HUMINT
(Human Intelligence) sources (00:37:27:00)
o In developing the intelligence sources, Bassett had to use very sensitive methods
and procedures (00:38:07:00)
o Bassett spent a large amount of time traveling around, meeting different
individuals and discussing possible business opportunities; however, with most of
the “business opportunities”, only one side was fully knowledgeable about what
the full extent of the possibilities were (00:38:15:00)
o As a result of his traveling, Bassett had the opportunity to see large amounts of
Germany (00:38:33:00)
Bassett was in Germany from 1971 until August 1974 (00:38:40:00)
o Apart from traveling around Germany, Bassett also took a lot of road trips on a
motorcycle to different parts of Europe (00:39:19:00)
Where Bassett was stationed in Germany, the soldiers did not have access to any
American television media; the soldiers only had access to American radio (00:41:30:00)
o The soldiers’ world was contained within their job and their immediate
surroundings, so their perception of the political menstruations of the outside
world, such as President Nixon’s continued efforts at détente with the Soviets and
Chinese were limited (00:41:40:00)
o Apart from periodic flareups, there was little going on within their surroundings,
so the soldiers viewed the world differently (00:41:59:00)
 For people in the United States, they were protected by oceans on two
sides and the Chinese did not have missiles capable of reaching them, so
what was the point of worrying about them (00:42:12:00)
 The soldiers’ world condensed the closer they were to their potential
enemy (00:42:19:00)
After he completed his tour in Germany in 1974, the Army sent Bassett to the
Intelligence Officers Advance Course at Fort Huachuca, Arizona (00:41:40:00)
o The course was nine months long and consisted of doing two major papers as well
as making a presentation, a large amount of reading and test taking (00:42:49:00)
Once he completed the training at Fort Huachuca, Bassett became a training company
commander at the fort (00:43:01:00)
o In the simplest sense, Bassett was a dorm master; he made sure all the soldiers fell
out for formation in the morning, took the soldiers to class, brought the soldiers
back from class, fed the soldiers, and ferreted out the bad soldiers so they could
be discharged from the Army (00:43:21:00)
o The soldiers in Bassett’s company were going through their first round of skill set
training for their MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) (00:43:45:00)
 Everyone went through the generic basic training and after that, each
soldier went into a specific course that trained them in a viable, usable
skill for the military (00:43:54:00)

�



The MOS for the soldiers in Bassett’s company was intelligence, although
they did not all receive the same type of training (00:44:14:00)
 Some of the soldiers were going to be maintenance men for the
radars Bassett had worked with in Vietnam while others trained to
be the radar operators (00:44:24:00)
 The MOS for the radar operators was such that if a soldier flunked
out of every other school, then they would get that training because
it was very simplistic (00:44:54:00)
 Although not all the soldiers were brilliant, that did not mean they
were all useless; not everyone had to be smart to serve a purpose
but each person had to be good at what he did (00:45:14:00)
o For some of the soldiers, it was a perfect fit and they
provided a service; on the other hand, some of the soldiers
were still bums (00:45:36:00)
o The Army’s discharge program was such that anyone could be discharged within
six months, so long as there was a cause for the discharge (00:45:48:00)
o Overall, the quality of the soldiers Bassett commanded at Fort Huachuca were not
as good as the quality of the soldiers Bassett commanded during his tour in
Vietnam (00:46:32:00)
 According to Bassett’s perspective, most of the soldiers killed in Vietnam
were white, most were around 19 years old, and most were volunteers
(00:46:36:00)
Bassett believes that philosophically, within males, there is a curiosity as to whether each
man is a warrior or not and that the men who volunteered to fight in Vietnam did so in
order to answer that question about themselves (00:47:07:00)
o The men also felt a need or calling to support their country, so they volunteered
for the Army, specifically with the intentions of going to Vietnam (00:47:32:00)
o On the other hand, Bassett believes that other men are afraid to answer the
question directly, so they joined either the Army Reserves or the National Guard
or they sought an outright deferment (00:47:44:00)
 In Bassett’s experience, these men often sought these routes because they
were afraid; however, the men covered their fear by making claims such
as having philosophical objections to war (00:47:53:00)
o Bassett paints the decision very clearly, either a man would chose to go or would
chose not go (00:48:20:00)
o On several different occasions, Bassett has had others come up to him and confess
that they did not have the guts to go to Vietnam, so they enlisted in the Army
Reserves instead (00:48:22:00)
 Bassett perceives these admissions as the people showing that they carry
that fact around out of a sense of guilt (00:48:40:00)
o According to Bassett, the only good thing to come out of serving in a war is
serving helps answer the question of how an individual would respond in a
situation, a question everyone has tried to answer since their birth (00:48:50:00)
o Speaking from his personal experiences in the war, the commonly-held
conceptions of the war: it was a draftee's war, it was a poor man’s war, and it was
largely fought by minorities, were not the case (00:49:47:00)

�







When someone was in the field in a line unit, there were not distinctions
between the different groups; they were all Bassett’s “boys” and he went
with them (00:49:53:00)
o Everyone, including the draftees, all had the same training and they all wanted to
get out of the fighting alive (00:50:18:00)
 In Bassett’s experience, as a result of their training, the soldiers had a
sense that if involved in a battle, they should try and kill as many people
as possible and not let any of the enemy escape (00:50:26:00)
 Often times, Bassett and his men were largely by themselves,
without any support for a substantial distance, so they could not
afford to let people get away (00:50:47:00)
 The soldiers were taught to be aggressive and to treat the fighting
as merely a “business” (00:51:40:00)
The Army tended to draw a large amount of their forces from the South because that was
where a large majority of their military bases were, which meant the soldiers were able to
train year-round (00:52:25:00)
o Southern men have a tradition of fighting for and, sometimes against, the United
States that stretches back to the American Revolution and includes fighting for the
Confederacy during the Civil War (00:52:32:00)
 In some cases, it went so far as a soldier’s great-ancestors had fought in
the Army, so it was almost expected that at some point, a child in the next
generation was going to serve (00:52:58:00)
As time has progressed, Bassett believes people join the military to escape what they
perceived as a chaotic, unstructured society; the military represented a more basic,
service-based society (00:53:19:00)
o In the military, a person’s rank is often based on merit whereas in civilian society,
it is possible for someone to achieve a higher standing by having a larger material
wealth (00:54:02:00)
Bassett finished his time as a training company commander at Fort Huachuca in 1976
then went to a six month counter-intelligence course before serving as a teacher at the
fort (00:54:42:00)
o Bassett also briefly attended an Organizational Development Course for four
months at Fort Ord, California before returning to Fort Huachuca to implement
the lessons he had learned (00:55:07:00)
 After attending the course, Bassett became something akin to a consultant,
who soldiers would go to express concerns about different problems or
situations (00:56:02:00)
 After hearing complaints, Bassett used a series of different
methods and techniques to gain information about a situation
before giving his observations and asking what the others wanted
to be done (00:56:13:00)
 While doing this job, Bassett discovered that when talking with
others, the negatives always came before the positives
(00:56:41:00)
 By taking the course at Fort Ord, Bassett earned nine masters-degree
credit hours from Pepperdine University (00:57:08:00)

�



The course was very effective because the instructors used a large
number of practical exercises (00:57:29:00)
In 1978, Bassett’s commanders called with an offer to transfer to a Ranger battalion and
work as the battalion’s S-2 (00:58:03:00)
o Bassett said he would love to take the job but he had not been to Airborne school
yet, a requirement for joining the Rangers; however, his commanders said that
would not be a problem (00:58:25:00)
 The following week, Bassett was going to go to Airborne school because a
slot at the school was open; although Bassett did not like heights, he went
to the school anyway (00:58:33:00)
o After finishing Airborne school at Fort Benning, Bassett returned to Fort
Huachuca, packed up everything and reported to the 2nd Ranger Battalion at Fort
Lewis, Washington, just outside of Seattle (00:58:47:00)
o Bassett stayed with the 2nd Ranger Battalion from January 1978 until July 1979
(00:59:02:00)
o At the time, there were only two Ranger battalions in the entire Army, one of the
East coast of the United States and one on the West coast, and they were
constantly in a rotation; one battalion would be training while the other was on
standby and vice versa (00:59:20:00)
 Everyone in the battalion went on leave at the same time, officers
included, and the battalion commander had what equated to absolute
power (00:59:30:00)
o In the time Bassett was there, the battalion was constantly on alert but the
battalion never actually deployed (01:00:18:00)
 One of the closest times the actually came to deploying was when there
were a series of flare-ups in central Africa (01:00:28:00)
 The battalion would constantly go through what were labeled as
“readiness deployment exercises”, where the battalion would practice
deploying based on different time frames, either in a two-, a six-, or an
eight-hour time frame (01:01:00:00)
 At the end of given time frame, the entire battalion, between five
and six hundred soldiers, would be on a plane, flying to a location
(01:01:26:00)
 During the exercises, the officers would a Learjet and fly out
before actually learning what their destination was, whether it was
Hawaii, or Georgia (01:01:53:00)
 More often then not, the exercises were in the morning and while
the rest of the soldiers were packing up, the officers would receive
the scenario (01:02:15:00)
o During the exercises, Bassett’s soldiers had five jobs:
removing the microphones from all the telephones,
standing guard, organizing where the soldiers parked,
making sure there were not outside forms of
communication, and keeping reporters away (01:02:18:00)
o Just after Bassett left the Rangers in 1979 for his next assignment was when the
situation in Iran involving the Shah began rapidly deteriorating (01:03:17:00)

�

Before the Shah actually fell, Bassett received a phone call asking if he
wanted to go to Iran; Bassett said okay and was told they would be in
touch (01:03:44:00)
o Bassett could have stayed with the Ranger battalion when his initial service period
was finished; however, Bassett was very close to the battalion’s commanding
officer, a lieutenant colonel, and decided to transfer with the lieutenant colonel,
while a friend of Bassett’s filled the S-2 position (01:04:22:00)
 A lot of the battalion staff ended up dying about a month after Bassett left
in a night time C-130 crash in Nevada; the pilots were wearing night
vision goggles but did not have a lot of experience with them and they
flew the entire, fully-loaded plane, into the ground (01:04:58:00)
Inspector General’s Office / Travel / Germany 2
 After leaving the 2nd Ranger Battalion, Bassett went to the Inspector General’s office,
where he had two different jobs (01:05:55:00)
o The Inspector General did investigations to monitor the health and welfare of
specific units and made sure soldiers were not taken advantage of (01:06:03:00)
o Bassett and his co-workers in the office did investigations whenever someone
made a complaint about what they perceived to be a problem, performed annual
inspections that were known by a unit in advance and would test the unit’s
accountability, efficiency, cleanliness, crime prevention, etc. (01:06:26:00)
 The inspections usually lasted several days as a whole team of inspectors
went through the unit, going over everything from personnel records to the
armories (01:06:53:00)
o When not performing inspections, whenever soldiers would call asking for an
appointment with an inspector general, Bassett would meet with them to discuss
whatever was on the soldiers’ minds (01:07:07:00)
 During the discussion, the soldier would make a complaint and Bassett
would question as to what drove the soldier made the complaint; Bassett
would write the complaint down and ask the soldier what he wanted
Bassett to do (01:07:32:00)
 Bassett would usually make suggestions and observations about what the
soldier could do differently to fix any problems (01:08:20:00)
 In a basic sense, the Inspector General was a place that soldiers could go
to air their grievances without needed permission from their superiors
(01:08:28:00)
o Although he did the job, Bassett wanted to move on to something else; it was
good to help people, especially when Bassett was able to fix a major problem but
it took a certain personality to do the job really effectively (01:09:36:00)
 After his time at the Inspector General’s office, Bassett traveled to Fort McCoy,
Wisconsin, where he worked in the Chicago “readiness region”, working with the Army
Reserve and National Guard units throughout Wisconsin and Iowa (01:11:21:00)
o Bassett did not like doing the job, but he had good soldiers working for him, so he
shut his mouth and drank coffee (01:12:16:00)

�




Eventually, Bassett received a phone call asking him to go to Washington D.C. for an
interview; when Bassett asked who he was talking to, they said that they would let him
know later on (01:12:35:00)
o When Bassett asked about paying for the flight to Washington, the people on the
phone said if Bassett bought the ticket, they would reimburse him (01:13:01:00)
o Bassett went to his boss and said he had received a phone call from someone he
did not know, asking Bassett to go to Washington for an interview (01:13:06:00)
o Bassett soon received another phone call asking if he was ready to go to
Washington and when Bassett told them when he was flying in, they told him to
meet them at a conference room at the airport; when Bassett walked into the
room, there were two men wearing civilian clothes (01:13:34:00)
 After finishing the interview, the two men suggested they and Bassett go
for a ride, so the three went for lunch, after which the men gave Bassett
money for a cab, a hotel room for the night, and money for his plane
tickets and told Bassett they would be in touch (01:14:07:00)
o About a month later, Bassett received another phone call saying that Bassett was
going to Armed Forces Staff College (01:14:43:00)
Bassett began attending the Armed Forces Staff College in January 1981, after which he
worked with a unit that “did not have a name” and stayed there until 1983 (01:15:01:00)
In 1983, a friend of Bassett said there was an opening in Berlin for a unit commander and
Bassett went to Berlin in June 1983 to take the position, doing the same type of work as
when he was in Munich, although now inside East Germany (01:15:38:00)
o Tactically, it was not hard getting information out of East Germany, although the
East Germans managed to get more intelligence out of West Germans than the
West Germans got out of East Germans (01:16:51:00)
 In East Germany, roughly one out of every three people were tied to the
East German intelligence service (01:17:14:00)
 Based on the Potsdam Agreement, American military liaisons were able to
go anywhere they wanted inside East Germany; in a sense they acted as
mobile intelligence collectors (01:17:38:00)
 The only limitations on the movements of the liaisons were the
liaisons had to stay in the open and they had to avoid Soviet and
East German PRAs (Permanent Restricted Areas) and TRAs
(Temporary Restricted Areas) (01:18:01:00)

Re-discussion of post-Fort Huachuca experiences due to sound




Following Fort Huachuca, Bassett was a captain assigned to the 2nd Ranger Battalion in
Fort Lewis, Washington then transferred to work at the Inspector General’s office at Fort
Lewis (01:18:50:00)
o Bassett worked in the Inspector General’s office until the Army told him he had to
report to his alternative specialty, which involved going to the readiness group at
Fort McCoy, Wisconsin (01:19:35:00)
While at Fort McCoy, Bassett received a phone call from a man asking Bassett to travel
to Washington D.C. for an interview; Bassett asked who the man worked for but was told
that it was not important (01:20:14:00)

�


o Bassett asked how he could contact the man after asking his commanding
officer’s permission and the man told Bassett to only tell his commanding officer
that it was an official request (01:20:34:00)
o The commanding officer said the situation felt spooky but if Bassett wanted to do
it, then the officer was not going to stop him (01:20:54:00)
o A couple of days later, the man called Bassett back and Bassett said he would
come to the interview; the man said that it was good and that he would call couple
of days to see when Bassett goes going to be getting to Washington (01:21:05:00)
 The man eventually called back again and told Bassett that when he
landed at the airport in Washington, he was supposed to go to a meeting
room in the airport (01:21:15:00)
o Bassett followed the instructions and once in the meeting room, two men wearing
civilian clothes interviewed him; once the interview was over, the men told
Bassett to get into a car and after taking Bassett to lunch, the two men took him to
the hotel where he would be spending the night (01:21:30:00)
 At the hotel, one of the men opened his pocket, counted out money to pay
for Bassett’s airfare, hotel room, and cab fare, thanked Bassett, and said
they would be in touch (01:21:43:00)
o Bassett received another phone call about thirty days later saying that Bassett was
going to go to the Armed Forces Staff College in Norfolk, Virginia for a couple of
months (01:22:14:00)
A couple of days after the final phone call, Bassett’s commanding officer said Bassett
was to report to the Armed Forces Staff College in January 1983 (01:22:36:00)
While completing his work at the Staff College, Bassett received another phone call,
saying he was going back to Washington (01:22:43:00)
o Bassett did not have anywhere to live in Washington, so he ended up staying with
a friend, the officer who replaced him in the 2nd Ranger Battalion and his two
daughters and pets (01:22:52:00)
o Bassett stayed with his friend for six weeks because he had received orders to go
to Lebanon (01:23:25:00)
 However, before they sent him to Lebanon, the Army wanted Bassett to go
to French language school; despite his previous experiences with the
language aptitude test, Bassett went to the school anyway (01:23:56:00)
 The company overseeing the language school was Berlitz and their
methodology for teaching was different from the methodology Bassett
used when he attended the German language school (01:24:28:00)
 Bassett passed the German language school by memorizing the
German language whereas the Berlitz method was based on
modeling the language and Bassett could not model what he could
not see (01:24:30:00)
 The situation with getting Bassett into Lebanon was continuously
changing between he was going or he was not going, based largely around
the actions of Hezbollah, specifically regarding the airport (01:24:50:00)
 So long as Hezbollah kept targeting the airport, aircraft could not
take off or land there (01:24:58:00)

�





Bassett was stuck regarding where to live because there was no point in
renting an apartment if he was not going to be living in it (01:25:09:00)
o Eventually, Bassett received a message from the J-2, the senior intelligence
officer, saying they appreciated Bassett’s willingness to go to Lebanon but the
entire situation was too convoluted for Bassett’s sake or for anyone else and they
were canceling that particular project (01:25:22:00)
Bassett stayed in Washington from 1981 until 1983, when he knew there is an open
assignment in Berlin (01:25:46:00)
o After he was chosen for the position, Bassett and his family moved to Berlin; the
job ended up being very similar to the work Bassett had done in Munich the first
time he had served in (01:26:04:00)
During the time Bassett was in Berlin, several methods were used in gathering
intelligence; one of the methods used was debriefing both legal and illegal immigrants
who traveled from East Germany into West Germany (01:26:37:00)
o Sometimes the East Germans and Soviets would send sleeper agents to see what
questions the West Germans and Americans and what information the latter two
were interested in (01:26:55:00)
 The questions the West Germans and Americans asked were intended to
fill in the blank spots where the West Germans and Americans did not
already know the information (01:27:06:00)
 If the East Germans and Soviets sent in a sleeper agent, they could find
out what the West Germans and Americans did or did not know based on
the questions asked (01:27:11:00)
 Other times, people from other Warsaw Pact countries would come,
requesting to either defect or act as spies for the West Germans and
Americans and they too went through the debriefing process, although
Bassett never talked directly with them (01:27:24:00)
o The West Germans and Americans also gathered intelligence using technical
means, such as intercepting East German and Soviet communications and
transmissions; however, although they could receive the transmissions, it was not
guaranteed the West Germans and Americans could decode them (01:28:04:00)
o Intelligence could also come from aerial overflights, flights that would fly over
West Berlin but could see a substantial distance into East Germany, or from
satellites looking down from space (01:28:19:00)
o These methods were external and were largely intended to keep track of the East
German and Soviet armies; the West Germans and Americans knew where the
enemy’s barracks were but were more concerned about the possibility of an
armored attack (01:28:49:00)
 If the tanks were in the tank park, there was not too much worry but if the
tanks were not, then efforts were made to find them (01:28:57:00)
 Once the tanks were found, if they were in the field, that was fine
because tanks generally did not drive themselves into an attack
position; instead, tanks were often driven on board trucks to an
attack position (01:29:05:00)

�




Internal intelligence, often more of a civilian interest for policy-making or of CIA and
counter-intelligence interest, was a little more difficult to gather; Bassett personally was
more interested in the military side of intelligence gathering (01:29:17:00)
The Potsdam Agreement towards the end of World War II allowed for the breaking of
Germany into sections; because Berlin was the German capital, Berlin too was broken
into sections (01:29:48:00)
o Each Allied power during the war had a section assigned to them for occupation,
both in Germany proper and in Berlin, with all of east Germany was given to the
Soviet Union (01:30:30:00)
o Because each Allied power (France, Great Britain, the Soviet Union, and the
United States) had a section of responsibility, they each had the right to send their
people into the other sections (01:30:51:00)
 For the most part, the three Western Allied powers were only interest in
the Soviet section (01:31:04:00)
 The military liaison missions had the right to go into any other section any
time they wanted to without needed to coordinate with the nation that
controlled a specific section (01:31:09:00)
 Both the Soviets and Americans would place Permanent Restricted
Areas where they did not want the liaisons to go and Temporary
Restricted Areas if a training exercise was going on (01:31:21:00)
 The liaisons, usually two at a time, would travel around the
sections in special cars that were configured to be displayed
differently at night as opposed to the day (01:31:40:00)
 At times, the Soviets would place Temporary Restricted Area signs
then move them forward; the liaison would see the signs were not
where they were supposed to be and would go into the area, giving
the Soviets a reason to hold them (01:32:12:00)
o On January 1st, 1983, the Soviets killed one of the liaison
officers (01:32:38:00)
 The Soviets had a train-load of tanks parked in an
open area, so the two liaison officers went into the
tanks to see if they could find any manuals or
information (01:33:00:00)
 In Berlin, a Soviet spy had infiltrated the American
intelligence community and had knowledge of
where the liaison officers would go (01:33:26:00)
 The spy in Berlin told the Soviets where the liaisons
were going to be, the situation rapidly deteriorated,
and the Soviets ended up shooting the liaisons
(01:34:02:00)
 After the shooting, the commander of the
American liaisons went back to the area as a
form of physical protest (01:34:18:00)
Bassett spent another three years working in Berlin, moving back to the United States in
1988 (01:35:33:00)

�o During this time, Bassett could definitely sense that the situation within East
Germany was beginning to deteriorate (01:35:57:00)
 A number of different things were beginning to happen, such as food
rationing, increased pollution, increased spread of disease, and the East
Germans were just tired (01:36:10:00)
 Germans were aware of the Solidarity movement in Poland only so far as
the West told them (01:36:36:00)
 The Germans only had a single German-based radio station where
as the Americans could broadcast American radio stations and the
British could broadcast British radio stations (01:36:40:00)
o The Soviets and East Germans did not make efforts to jam
the broadcast signals because it involved jamming the
entire broadcast spectrum, including their own broadcasts
and transmissions (01:37:18:00)
 Bassett was in Berlin when President Reagan traveled there and made his
famous speech (01:38:31:00)
 For the large part, nobody actually made it “over the Wall” by actually
going over the Berlin Wall; East German guards had orders to “shoot to
kill”, there were lights, mine zones, wire, and dead zones, and someone
had to cross all that if they went over the top of the wall (01:38:41:00)
 Early on, people did try to go over the top of the wall because they
wall was originally just wire before becoming an actual wall; as
time went on, the defenses surrounding the wall became more
elaborate and complex (01:39:02:00)
 That being said, there were supposed openings in the wall for East
German agents to get into West Berlin but for others, there was the
Berlin subway (01:39:45:00)
o The subway system ran from East Berlin into West Berlin
and back into East Berlin (01:39:57:00)
o Bassett does not recall any guards on the West Berlin side
of subway; if an East German got on the subway, he could
conceivable get off in West Berlin (01:40:10:00)
 If a West German or American got on the subway,
they were warned when it was the last stop before
East Berlin, although the train kept going back into
East Berlin (01:40:24:00)
o The theory was that whenever the Soviets or East Germans
really wanted to know what was going on in West Berlin,
they would just get on the subway (01:40:44:00)
o Bassett himself never took the subway because he and the
other Americans were always scared to death of
accidentally going into East Berlin (01:41:14:00)
 Bassett knows stories of other soldiers who missed
the sign at the last stop and accidentally went into
East Berlin; the soldiers never left the train and just
made a circuit back into West Berlin (01:41:17:00)

�o If a soldier or someone else had the proper paperwork to
travel to East Berlin, they could use the subway to get there
legally and to see all of East Berlin (01:41:35:00)
 People within the intelligence community made it
their business to visit all parts of East Berlin, going
as far as the border between East Berlin and East
Germany (01:42:18:00)
Washington D.C. / Saudi Arabia (01:42:39:00)
 After leaving Berlin, Bassett next assignment was a command position at Fort Meade,
Maryland (01:42:39:00)
o As part of the assignment, Bassett and his men would interview willing
immigrants into the United States to discuss any intelligence that would be of
interest (01:43:03:00)
 Bassett and his men would interview Soviet immigrants as well as Cuban
immigrants; Bassett’s command had four or five offices around the
country and the interviews would take place at one of those offices
(01:43:44:00)
 Apart from Russian Jews, who automatically got in, every other
nationality had to go directly from their point of origin, such as the Soviet
Union or Cuba, to the United States; they could not stop in another
country before getting to the United States (01:44:07:00)
 Someone was considered a legal immigrant if sending them back to their
home country would cause harm or religious persecution (01:44:41:00)
o Bassett had the position at Fort Meade from 1988 through 1989 (01:45:10:00)
 Because of the instability surrounding the Eastern bloc at this time, there
was an influx of immigrants (01:45:21:00)
 All the immigrants had to be screened and at that time, the United
States was very particular about which immigrants they allowed in;
the United States needed to have some form of control over who
was entering the country (01:45:51:00)
 Eventually, Bassett received a promotion from lieutenant colonel to colonel and he was
sent to work with the Army staff at the Pentagon (01:46:11:00)
o In reality, Bassett had not received an official promotion; instead, he had been
placed on a list for promotion but the Army wanted him in positional power
regardless, so they made him a “colonel” but continued paying him as a lieutenant
colonel (01:46:18:00)
 Bassett and the others on the list would continue receiving pay as
lieutenant colonel until Congress signed off on the list, officially making
them colonels (01:46:44:00)
 Each man on the list was assigned a number based on seniority and each
month, only a certain number would be selected for promotion; only a
certain number were chosen because the Army wanted to keep the number
of colonels at a set amount (01:46:57:00)
 Once the first group on the list received their promotion, then the
next soldiers on the list were the next in line to receive their

�

promotion; the large a soldier’s number on the list was, the longer
it would take to receive his promotion (01:47:12:00)
o At the time Bassett worked there, the Pentagon was broken down into sections
representing the major branches of the military: Army, Navy, Air Force, and the
Joint Chiefs of Staff (01:47:40:00)
 The Army section was further broken down into: Operations, Logistics,
Intelligence etc., and within the Intelligence section, there were three
different divisions: Signals Intelligence, Human Intelligence, and Imagery
Intelligence (01:48:00:00)
o Bassett worked in policy operations in Human Intelligence (01:48:47:00)
 Apart from organizing operations, Bassett now had to deal with organizing
a budget, managing resources and manpower, etc.; in a sense, the job was
entirely bureaucratic (01:49:19:00)
o The situation changed when Iraq invaded Kuwait; Bassett was getting tired of
having to wake up early to get to work and getting home late, so he volunteered
for service in Iraq (01:50:05:00)
 Bassett’s commanding officer said no and told Bassett to get back to
working (01:50:05:00)
 Before the war actually began, Bassett received a phone call saying that a
general wanted Bassett to serve in Iraq; Bassett was happy because that
meant he was getting out of the Pentagon (01:51:02:00)
Bassett deployed to Iraq and once the war began, he did some business work, some
counter-intelligence work, helped interrogate Iraqi POWs, coordinated with the Saudi
military/national guard (01:51:25:00)
o The situation returning from Iraq was entirely new to Bassett; he traveled light
and did not carry any civilian clothes because the Army provided everything, so
when he received his orders home, Bassett boarded a flight wearing the same
clothes he had been working in that morning (01:52:04:00)
o The journey home took Bassett and the other soldiers on the plane to an island off
of Sicily; Shannon, Ireland; and Bangor, Maine, where the flight arrived late at
night and the soldiers were allowed to get off (01:52:47:00)
 Because the town had long been part of the traditional route for soldiers to
return home, all along the corridor leading away from the plane were men,
women, and children who lived in Bangor saying “thank you” to the
soldiers (01:53:17:00)
 The experience was totally different from what Bassett had
experienced when he came home from Vietnam, so he thanked
everyone who was in the line (01:53:50:00)
 At the end of the line was a group of Vietnam veterans who
wanted to talk with the soldiers (01:54:06:00)
 Bassett found out every time plane flew into Bangor with soldiers, the
people would go out to greet the soldiers (01:54:33:00)
 After leaving Bangor, the next flight took Bassett to the naval base at
Norfolk, Virginia; when Bassett asked how he could get to Maryland, he
was told a bus was taking soldiers to the airport (01:55:01:00)

�







Bassett did not want to ride on a bus, so he went to a rental car
business, rented a car and drove home, wearing the same fatigues
he had left the Middle East in (01:55:20:00)
o Twelve hours after Bassett returned home, he was back working in his old
position at the Pentagon (01:55:38:00)
 Prior to going to Saudi Arabia, Bassett returned home one day and his
wife told him to call his old boss; Bassett called and his boss told Bassett
to be prepared the following Monday to deploy (01:57:32:00)
Bassett continued working at the Pentagon until he thought of another reason to leave the
job (01:58:03:00)
o During this time, the United States was attempting to implement the “peace
dividend”, which involved drastically downsizing the military (01:58:12:00)
 Bassett’s job during this period was finding ways to downsize different
parts of the intelligence community, so he developed a way to reform the
structure (01:58:32:00)
 As part of the redevelopment plan, Bassett held a worldwide
conference to explain to other nations’ intelligence services what
the United States was going to do (01:58:44:00)
 After the conference, Bassett was placed in charge of the redevelopment
and was assigned to Fort Meade (01:59:03:00)
 At one point, Bassett held a staff meeting for everyone in the
program, roughly fifty personnel, and told them to pay attention to
the method because one day, it would be done (01:59:32:00)
Bassett led the redevelopment program for roughly two years, after which he was
assigned to work at the DIA (Defense Intelligence Agency); the agency was also
planning to restructure a few things, so Bassett was placed in charge of the operational
group (01:59:57:00)
o As part of his group, Bassett had some civilians from the State Department, a
couple of men from the CIA, some of the men from Bassett’s redevelopment
program in the Army and some personnel from the DIA (02:00:16:00)
o From Bassett’s perspective, the DIA did not like how Bassett had reorganized
Army intelligence because they wanted more control (02:00:28:00)
Eventually, another command position opened up at Fort Meade, so Bassett took,
working as commander of the Central Clearance Facility located the fort (02:01:31:00)
o At that time, the facility granted validated, updated, denied, etc., all security
clearances for all Army, Army Reserve, and civilian personnel (02:01:49:00)
 The process of actually getting clearance was very long and drawn out to
begin with because although both officers and enlisted personnel had the
ability to get clearance, it required an intense amount of background
checks (02:02:12:00)
 Once the background checks were done, the information went to the
adjudicators working under Bassett and they would examine the complete
package; if it was a complete package that the adjudicator approved of,
then clearance was granted and if not, the package was sent back with a
request for more information (02:02:44:00)

�



If more information was needed, the person was sent to the back of the
line, so it sometimes took between six months and year for someone to
receive their security clearance (02:03:18:00)
 If it really got bad, it could take over a year-and-a-half for
someone to get clearance (02:03:24:00)
Eventually, Bassett got a job working with the National Guard in Michigan, with the
intention of making it his retirement job (02:03:37:00)
o However, in 1996, Bassett was diagnosed with prostate cancer and after having
the cancer surgically removed, from 1996 to 1997, Bassett was in the “twilight
zone” (02:03:50:00)
 The Army could not do anything with him because he was recuperating
and they did not want to discharge him because regulations required them
to wait six months (02:04:21:00)
 During the six months he recuperated, Bassett was taken from regular
status and transferred into hospital status at Fort Knox, Kentucky
(02:04:37:00)
o After the six months, Bassett went to a disability board, who informed Bassett
that they were going to medically retire him, which they did, in July 1997;
although he was medically retired in July 1997, Bassett had a mandatory
retirement day in November 1997, so everything worked out fine (02:04:47:00)

Colombia / Sept. 11th / Civilian Contractor (02:05:12:00)
 After the medical retirement, Bassett spent a couple of years working in civilian jobs
before receiving a contract to work in Colombia (02:05:12:00)
o At the time, the President and Congress were pushing forward an operation called
“Plan Colombia”, where the United States would assist both the Colombian
Defense Ministry and the Colombian National Police (02:05:23:00)
 The two groups, although slightly connected, were relatively autonomous,
competed for resources, and had different perspectives and supporters; the
Colombian National Police was supported by the American DEA (Drug
Enforcement Agency) because they did all the drug raids while the
Defense Ministry was supposed to fight the land wars against the guerilla
groups in the countryside (02:05:57:00)
o The plan was for the United States to move equipment and support into Colombia
to help synchronize and modernize both groups so they could better perform their
jobs (02:06:30:00)
o At the time, Colombia had roughly nineteen different subversive groups in the
country and they all wanted the same thing, land; specifically, land to grow cocoa
plants on to make cocaine (02:06:41:00)
o Bassett traveled to Colombia as part of a twelve man team and they did a survey
of the situation, with Bassett handling the examination of the intelligence services
(02:07:38:00)
 Each person in the team had a different section to exam and these
included: personnel, logistics, operations, intelligence, etc. (02:07:47:00)
o While in Colombia, Bassett lived in an apartment by himself and he left in March
2001 (02:08:08:00)

�




o In the time that Bassett was in Colombia, the Colombians both did and did not act
on the advice that they team gave them (02:08:24:00)
 At different times, the Colombians did act on the advice that they
Americans gave, with the Bassett’s intelligence section coming very close
to making complete changes (02:08:30:00)
 To the Colombians, cooperation with the team was necessary if they
wanted to receive American financial support to purchase the upgrade
equipment necessary to fully implement the changes (02:08:38:00)
 Bassett’s specific job was coordinating how exactly the intelligence
moved back and forth because prior to then, the intelligence services were
parochially divided between the Defense Ministry and the National Police
and there was some animosity between the two groups (02:09:05:00)
 In particular, the National Police was kicked around a bit because
whenever one of the subversive groups attacked, it usually targeted
people in the National Police and their families and the Army was
usually slow in responding with assistance (02:09:20:00)
 During weekly meetings with representatives from both groups,
Bassett stressed that it was the same flag that covered the coffins,
regardless of which group they were in (02:09:55:00)
o Bassett liked being in Colombia because the country had beautiful weather,
beautiful scenery, and beautiful women (02:10:10:00)
After finishing the contract in Colombia in March 2001, Bassett was home for two weeks
and one day, when he was working on his lawn tractor, his wife handed him the
telephone; Bassett answered and was told he needed to be in Washington in two days
(02:10:44:00)
o Although Bassett complained that he had just gotten home, the man said it would
only be for a couple of days, no more than five (02:11:09:00)
Prior to 9/11, Bassett was working at Fort Sill, Oklahoma and Fort Irwin, California as an
intelligence representative during computerized war games (02:11:56:00)
o Bassett went to Fort Irwin as part of the 4th Infantry Division (02:12:47:00)
When the attacks on 9/11 occurred, Bassett was with a friend from Vietnam in a farmer’s
meadow hunting prairie dogs with .223 rifles (02:13:18:00)
o When the friend got back to the friend’s home in Dodge City, Kansas, he called
Bassett and told him to turn on the television because the attacks had happened
(02:13:35:00)
o The attacks made Bassett’s life difficult because he had to drive from Kansas
back to Fort Sill but the price of gasoline shot up and people began rationing
gasoline (02:14:12:00)
 Bassett had a tough time making it from Kansas back to Oklahoma,
partially because of the gasoline and partially because he had pair of rifles
in his car (02:14:16:00)
o It took Bassett three hours to actually reach his post at Fort Sill because whenever
an attack occurred, the military tended to overreact, so 19 year-old MPs were
guarding the gates to the base and they acted as if they were guarding the world,
so every car going into the fort was being inspected (02:14:33:00)

�





Once it was finally Bassett’s turn, a young, energetic MP looked under
Bassett’s floorboards, found a hunting knife, and asked if Bassett had a
license to carry a hunting knife (02:15:11:00)
o Once Bassett finally got into the fort, he went to work (02:15:30:00)
When the United States went to war, Bassett received the phone call telling him he
needed to go to Washington (02:15:42:00)
o Prior to going to war, everyone involved, regardless of civilian or military, needed
training and education over different subjects, such as the Geneva Conventions,
marksmanship, etc. (02:15:52:00)
o Bassett was called in because there was a large number of civilian contractors
who were meant to rebuild Iraq but were sitting in Kuwait, waiting to receive the
training (02:16:16:00)
 There was a large backlog because everyone, regardless of their job or
position, had to go through the training and there was only a handful of
sites in the United States where someone could receive it (02:16:27:00)
 For some people, they did not have to receive all the training but
they still had to wait for all the other groups to finish their training,
which took several days (02:17:12:00)
 Bassett and another man took the full training sequence and cut it down
into the sections that only a contractor would need (02:17:30:00)
 After Bassett and the other man finished, their boss asked where the two
men’s passports were; when Bassett said his was at home, the boos told
Bassett to get it by the next day (02:17:52:00)
o The following day, Bassett was on a flight out of Dulles International Airport and
into Kuwait with two other men and the three men put together the presentation
for the contractors on the flight (02:18:21:00)
 Bassett was originally supposed to only teach three classes but did not end
up leaving Kuwait for seven weeks (02:19:02:00)
o Once Bassett finally left Kuwait, his company started holding classes in North
Carolina (02:19:21:00)
After 9/11, security across all the U.S. borders were heightened, although quantifying
what “heightened” actually meant was difficult (02:20:09:00)
o At the time, the U.S. Army in Europe wanted someone to look at their facilities
and personnel from the position of a civilian belligerent and decipher what would
a belligerent do (02:20:26:00)
 Therefore, Bassett was a project manager in charge of a team that would
spend three weeks on a road in a specific country, testing different groups
of facilities in that country (02:20:59:00)
 Prior to the test, the team would talk with the man who was in
charge of the facilities and he would explain what he believed the
biggest weaknesses were (02:21:21:00)
 Three weeks later, the team would return and not only give their
analysis of what they saw at the facilities but would also make
suggestions for changes to any vulnerabilities (02:21:42:00)
o The team also looked for anything they perceived as a flaw
and brought attention to it (02:22:12:00)

�








Normally, the first part of the three week cycle involved the team
going onto the Internet to see what information they could gather
from there; more often then not, the Internet was a treasure trove
because people were too naïve and often placed more information
than they needed to on the Internet (02:23:11:00)
 It was originally supposed to be a one-year contract but the team worked
so well, the Army extended the contract for another year; after the second
year, Bassett got a friend to replace him and went home (02:24:56:00)
As Bassett continued teaching the civilian contractors in Kuwait, roughly every three
weeks, he had to fly from Detroit, Michigan to Frankfurt, Germany and into Kuwait;
eventually, it reached the point that Bassett would simply fly into Iraq to teach classes in
Baghdad (02:25:48:00)
o During one rocket attack on his hotel, Bassett was on the same floor where the
rocket impacted, only a couple of rooms down, and he watched on television as a
CNN reporter discussed the destructive power of the rockets (02:26:26:00)
Once Bassett finished teaching, he returned home briefly before being sent to the Congo
to help assist the U.N. forces dealing with the rebel situation in Rwanda and the
surrounding countries (02:27:10:00)
o Bassett and his team were supposed to train personnel from all the countries to
help with the flow of intelligence (02:27:30:00)
o After the training, a centralized cell would stay while the other personnel would
return to their countries so information could flow in and out of the central point
and help coordinate with local forces (02:28:08:00)
Nevertheless, the mission in Africa fell apart and Bassett returned home, was eventually
diagnosed with colon cancer and finally retired (02:28:53:00)
In conclusion, the average soldier in Vietnam was just a kid down the street who just
wanted to do his job and go home (02:29:14:00)

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Boring, Frank</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Norman Batch
(47:26)
Pre-Enlistment
• Born in 1925 (0:25)
• In Muskegon, MI (0:45)
• Moved to a farm in Hooblerville, MI (01:00)
• Received a deferment from the service so he could work on the farm (01:45)
• Got into a disagreement with his father, so he left and volunteered for the service
(02:00)
• Graduated high school in 1944 (02:25)
• Father chopped wood for a living (02:45)
• Was in 10th grade when Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor (03:45)
• Went straight from high school to the service (04:00)
Enlistment
• Was sent to Detroit for his physical, passed and sent back home (04:30)
• Told his parents he was going into the service (04:45)
• Sworn in at Fort Sheridan in Chicago, IL (05:00)
• Volunteered for the Air Corps, but ended up in the Army (05:20)
• Was sent to Camp Craught in South Carolina for boot camp (06:00)
• First day they ran a mile, then 2 miles, and did exercises (07:00)
• Did mostly exercise first week, second week was running (07:20)
• Had boot camp through the summer, June through September (07:50)
• Half of his group went to Pacific, half went to Europe (08:40)
Deployment
• He was sent to Europe aboard the Queen Elizabeth (08:45)
• Got a little ways out into the Atlantic, and found German subs waiting for them
(09:20)
• Had to change course and took them several days extra, and landed in Scotland
instead of Southampton, England (09:50)
• Took a train to England (10:00)
• Spent 2 weeks in England, waiting to embark across the Channel (10:30)
• Got on LSTs and went across the Channel (11:15)
• Had to swim in to shore because the harbor was destroyed (11:30)
• Slept in a red barn on top of a hill (12:15)
• Headed inland by truck the next day (12:30)
• First battle was in Metz, a fort city with walls around it (13:00)
• Had to go house to house driving the Germans out (13:15)
• A German threw a hand grenade at him and jumped out the window (14:20)
• Grenade was a dud, people outside caught him (14:30)

�•
•

Most ammunition the Germans had were duds (14:50)
Moved on to Belgium (15:40)

Battle of the Bulge
• Moved in to Germany and the Battle of the Bulge broke out (16:00)
• Had to travel 35 miles in one night to save the 101st Airborne in Bastogne (16:45)
• He was in the 80th Division in the 3rd Army under General Patton (17:00)
• Became trapped on a hill in the south of the city (17:25)
• 200 men trapped for 5 days because all the tanks ran out of gas (17:45)
• Many men killed and wounded on the hill (18:35)
• Ran out of food on the 5th day and had little water (19:00)
• Had the Ardennes Forest to their backs (19:15)
• Heard tanks in the forest, thought it was German tanks, but it was the Americans
(19:45)
• Happened on Christmas Day, 1944 (20:30)
• Was fighting with different divisions when he was wounded by a mortar shell,
sent back to England (21:15)
• Friend killed (21:20)
• Wasn’t sure if the Germans captured him or the Americans found him (23:00)
• Couldn’t feel his extremities at first (23:15)
• Was sent back to France after he was healed (23:45)
• War ended while he was in the hospital (24:10)
Post War
• Had to guard German POWs and make sure French soldiers didn’t harm them
(25:00)
• Ended up guarding SS troopers (25:30)
• Got along well with French soldiers (26:50)
• Was shipped to Vos, Belgium to take care of the cemetery (27:50)
• Had friends buried at that cemetery (28:20)
• Had to show parents where their children were buried (28:30)
• Got an office job there because he could type (29:15)
• Transferred to another cemetery in Holland (29:45)
• Stayed with a family in Holland (30:00)
• Was in Holland for 2 months (30:50)
• Then sent back to France, delivering mail for a short time (31:15)
• Got pneumonia from delivering mail in the cold, had to go to Charleroi to go to
the hospital (32:30)
• Was supposed to be shipped back home, but was in the hospital so he couldn’t go
home right away (32:50)
• Travelled to Scotland, England, France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Czechoslovakia,
Switzerland, Germany and Holland during his time in the service (35:50)
Back the United States
• Travelled back to the United States by Liberty Ship (37:20)
• Hit a hurricane on the way home (37:45)

�•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•

Almost went overboard during the hurricane, but only lasted for 4 or 5 hours
(38:50)
Took 4 days to get to New York City (39:35)
Was processed in Fort Dix, New Jersey (39:50)
Discharged at Camp Atterbury, IN (39:55)
Took a train to South Bend, then rode a bus to Grand Rapids, then took a bus to
Muskegon (40:30)
Parents didn’t know he was coming home that day (41:25)
Didn’t want to work when he got home (41:45)
Received 300 dollars for discharge (42:00)
Loaded furniture for a little bit, but quit soon after because of the boss (42:30)
Took a job with Dreser Industries, and retired from there in 1990 (44:15)
Belongs to the VA in Grand Rapids (44:30)
Gets the Division newsletter (45:00)

�</text>
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Boring, Frank</text>
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                <text>Norman Batch was born in 1925 in Muskegon, Michigan. Since he was raised on a farm, he received 6 months of deferred service, but ended up enlisting on his own. He served in the 80th Division of the 3rd Army under General Patton, and fought at Metz and in the Battle of the Bulge. After the war, he guarded German POWs and took care of cemeteries until his service was up. He came back to Grand Rapids and worked until he retired in 1990.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Jonathan Richard Bates
(00:30:04)
(0:34) Background of Army career
• Joined in 1983 when in college
o Wanted to serve country
o Other family members had served
o Wanted to learn new stills
o Money for college
• Part of the Michigan National Guard
(1:41) Job assignment in Iraq
• Army Advisor with the Iraqi Army from 2004-2005
• Saw combat
(2:14) Most memorable moment
• Spent a year in Iraq
• Imbedded with the Iraqi Army as their American Liaison
• In 15 missions with them and over 200 patrols
(3:40) Casualties
• In Bates’ company of 60-plus men, 2 killed and 17 wounded
o Those injured/killed were from rocket or mortar attacks and sniper fire
when on patrols
o Bates is proud because compared to other companies, his did not lose
many men
(4:40) Provisions
• At the American base, plenty of provisions
• When with the Iraqi Army would get food from markets, locals, street, the army
itself
o Ate spam, bread, goat brains, pigeon, etc.
(6:10) Free time
• Used laptop or iPod
• Get to know Iraqi soldiers; became great friends
o Talked about family, friends, politics, religion
o Danced, sang
o Shared culture
o Practiced for combat- first aid training and basic land navigation
• Usually not a lot of free time because a lot was going on in the area
• Still in touch with a lot of Iraqi friends by email
(8:40) Holidays
• Bates was in Kuwait during Thanksgiving; just ate Thanksgiving dinner in the
mess hall and then went back to his tent
• Spent Christmas in Iraq where he played dominos
• Celebrated a lot of Iraqi holidays

�(10:17) Skills learned
• Language – learned a bit of Arabic
• Tolerance
o Their democracy won’t be the same as US democracy because we are two
different cultures
o There are a lot of parallels between there struggle for freedom and our
struggle for freedom from Britain
o Rich in history, tradition, and wonderful people
(12:37) Outside of the military
• Teaches elementary school
• Musician
• A dad
(13:27) Lessons learned
• Tolerance
• More worldly
• Time in military made him more aware of the things going on in the world
• Only 2% of the US population serves in the military; wishes more would serve
(14:59) Bates’ absence and the impact on his family
• Family had a great support system
o The church was instrumental as was the school
• Bates was gone for 12 months
(17:42) Homecoming
• Awesome to get home
• Very difficult to leave Iraq because formed like a “Band of Brothers” with the
Iraqi soldiers
• Celebration at the airport; lots of family and friends as well as a few television
stations
(21:55) Going to Iraq
• Just started teaching PE
• Got a phone call that said, “You’re going to the sandbox.”
• Went with the 98th Division of NY
• Had one month to prepare which was longer than most soldiers get
• The elementary school he was teaching at was wonderful
o Told he could have his job back when he returned and that they would
take care of his family in his absence
o Allowed Bates time off before he left and also when he got back
o Threw a big celebration for him upon his return
(24:20) Training for the Army
• Was a college music major and joined the National Guard Band
o Also trained in combat
• In college joined the ROTC program to be an officer; wanted to be a pilot but that
didn’t work out so went to band and then became a drill sergeant
o Trained in infantry
o Went to various schools like NBC (Nuclear Biological Chemical), etc.
• Bates is a professional soldier

�(26:10) Life now
• Still in the Army
• In back of mind, worries will be sent back to Iraq
• Feels Iraq is a worthy cause and is willing to die for it
• The US has done good things in Iraq; got rid of Saddam Hussein just as the WWII
generation got rid of Hitler
o Iraqis say that Saddam Hussein was worse than Hitler
• Wishes people would not call the war pointless or stupid because the men and
women serving this country are sacrificing so much

�</text>
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                <text>Jonathan Richard Bates is a Veteran of the Iraq War and has been serving in the United States Army since 1983. In this interview, Bates discusses his recent tour of duty in Iraq. As an Army Advisor for the Iraqi Army, Bates has unique insight into the Iraqi culture and people. With the Iraqi Army Bates went on 15 missions and over 200 patrols. His story is one that shows although Iraq and the United States are two different cultures, each has a rich history that often parallels the other, such as the fight for democracy.</text>
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                    <text>Bath Charter
Township NonMotorized Plan
2017

0

�2017 Bath Charter Township Non-Motorized Plan
BATH TOWNSHIP BOARD OF TRUSTEES
Jack Phillips, Supervisor
Kathleen McQueen, Clerk
Steve Wiswasser, Treasurer
Cindy Cronk, Trustee
Denise McCrimmon, Trustee
Al Rosekrans, Trustee
Dan Stockwell, Trustee
BATH TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS
Dan Kramer, Chairman
Joe Benzie, Vice-Chairman
Cindy Cronk, Board Liaison
Ray Severy
Jason Almerigi
John Reich
Michael Sullivan
BATH TOWNSHIP PLANNING STAFF
Dan Wietecha – Superintendent
Brian J. Shorkey, AICP – Planning Director
Hunter Whitehill – Planning Assistant
Maggie Barringer – Planning Assistant (former)
Ellery Johnson – Planning Assistant (former)

1

�BATH CHARTER TOWNSHIP NON-MOTORIZED STUDY
Table of Contents
1. Introduction

Page 4

a. Study Purpose
b. Background/History
c. Study Update Process
d. Trail Characteristics and Options

Page 4
Page 4
Page 5
Page 5

2. Existing Conditions
a.
b.
c.
d.
e.
f.
g.

Page 6

Subarea One – Hawk Hollow
Subarea Two – TBD
Subarea Three – Downtown
Subarea Four – Rose Lake
Subarea Five – Haslett
Subarea Six – Park Lake
Subarea Seven – Chandler

Page 6
Page 6
Page 7
Page 8
Page 8
Page 9
Page 10

3. Recommendations
a.
b.
c.
d.

Page 11

Known Future Improvements
Future Non-Motorized Improvement Map
Future Needs
Goals and Objectives

Appendix One – Survey Results

Page 11
Page 13
Page 14
Page 14
Page 15

2

�Chapter One – Introduction
Study Purpose
Bath Charter Township (Township)
realizes the importance of providing
safe pedestrian and bicycle movements
in the community. These non-motorized
trips vary in length and purpose and
may be as short as a walk to a store or
as long as a bike ride from one side of
the Township to the other.
A walkable and bikeable community
provides facilities and amenities to
encourage safe non-motorized trips.
These amenities range from the most
basic sidewalk to redesigning corridors
for multi-modal transportation.
As a result, developing and maintaining
a walkable and bikeable community
required integration of land use
Bath Charter Township Subareas
planning and non-motorized policies.
The benefits of providing safe, viable,
and enjoyable non-motorized facilities are important to the Township’s quality of life and can positively
impact mobility, travel, safety, and recreation opportunities.
Background/History
The Bath Charter Township Non-Motorized Study (Study) was last completed in 2010. That project
began as a response to the Township’s growing need for non-motorized transportation alternatives and
increasing concern for children walking to and from school.
Growth has continued in the Township
since 2010 and many of the concerns
then remain concerns today. The
Planning Commission recognized the
need to update the vision for nonmotorized transportation in the
Township and so approved this Study. It
is the goal of this study to gauge the nonmotorized opinions of the community as
accurately as possible and to reflect
those opinions through specific
recommendations for non-motorized
facilities.

Figure 1.2

3

�Study Update Process
The Study was officially kicked off with a survey. The survey was launched both online and in hard copy
forms on June 20, 2017. The results of the survey are found in Appendix One. Two community
engagement workshops were held at the Township offices on October 25, 2017 (Figure 1.2). Residents
were able to give comments to staff and write on maps to show where they would like to see new nonmotorized ways.
Trail Characteristics and Options
There are many tools and techniques available for creating and/or enhancing a non-motorized system.
Success of these tools relies on proper application. Careful consideration must be given to the impacts
of a particular non-motorized technique and also to the needs and desires of the population most
affected by the facility. It is important to realize that no one tool or technique works in every situation,
even if scenarios appear similar. Creating or improving the safety, continuity, and connectivity for
motorists and non-motorized uses is key.
Non-motorized links generally come in two forms, on-road and off-road. On-road facilities provide
accommodations for users within the roadway. On-road facilities are primarily geared toward bicycle
use. Off-road facilities are trails and pathways that are separate from the roadway, used by bikes and
pedestrians, although they may be in the road right-of-way.
On-Road Facilities
1. The familiar Bike Route sign is not tied to any particular type of facility;
rather, it is an aid to help bicyclists find their way through a confusing road
network to a destination. As such, bicycle routes signs should be
accompanied by destination information. Also, as the sign indicates that a
route is preferable for a bicycle to use, therefore hazards to bicycling should
be removed and a route should receive maintenance levels conducive to
safe bicycling.
2. Signed shared roadways are typically low
volume roads where bicycles and motor vehicles
can share the roadway with minimal conflict.
The sign helps delineate a route as an aid for
bicycle navigation. Signed shared routes may
also be used to highlight links between other
more substantial bicycle facilities, such bicycle
lanes and shared use paths.

~ ~~
t

~

11 '-12'

J

~

•

C#MNII

11 '-12'

22'- 24'

Shared Lane

3. “Backroad Bike Routes” are proposed for rural
gravel roads that provide key nonmotorized
links. These routes may transition in the future
to a different type of nonmotorized facility, if
the roadway is improved.
00

4. “Share The Road” signs may be helpful along
rural roads as a way to alert motorists to expect
more bicycle traffic than typical. Signing a
bicycle route lets the bicyclist know that there is
a specific reason why this route may be
4

f
30'

Bicycle Lanes

00

11'

�preferred over alternative routes.
Signed bicycle routes usually occur along roads with low traffic volumes, such as in rural areas.
Bicycle route signs can be used in conjunction with direction or wayfinding signs to include
directions to common bicyclist destinations.
5. Bicycle Lanes are typically used on major roads with high traffic volumes. The minimum
shoulder width of 4 feet should be increased with higher speeds and amounts of truck traffic.
With Bicycle Lanes, striping, pavement markings and signage delineate a portion of the roadway
specifically for bicycle use. This designation clarifies the use of the roadway for both motorists
and bicyclists. The pavement markings, when they include directional arrows, help reinforce the
fact that bicyclists should ride in the same direction as traffic. When a bicycle lane approaches
an intersection, the lane marking should become dashed to accommodate bicyclists
repositioning themselves for turning movements (such as in a left turn lane).
Off-Road Facilities
1. Shared use paths accommodate multiple
user groups, including bicycles,
pedestrians, in-line skaters, those in
wheel chairs, etc. These facilities are
usually constructed to ADA standards
outside of the road right-of-way. The
multiple uses are accommodated by the
pavement width, with 10 feet being the
minimum recommended width based on
American Association of State Highway
and Transportation Officials (AASHTO)
standards.

shoulder

shoulder

seledive Ye99talion thinning

Shared use paths have the same types of
Shared Use Path
planning and design considerations as roads:
design speeds, horizontal alignment
limitations, grade and cross slope limitations, and sight distance, clear zones, and drainage. The
illustration on the right shows some basic considerations, and the following diagrams highlight
issues specific to different types of shared use paths.
2. Sidepaths are shared use paths generally
located within the road right-of-way along
roads with infrequent driveway and road
intersections. There is a high probability
for serious motorized vehicle/bicycle and
motorized vehicle/pedestrian crashes at
intersections and numerous other design
and use issues, therefore these facilities
should be located with care and special
attentions should be paid to intersection
design. Sidepaths can be built by roads,
streams, or rail lines as in rail-to-trails.

CX)

Sidepath

5

�Chapter Two – Existing Conditions
Subarea One
Boundaries
Subarea One is characterized by the
Hawk Hollow development, which
includes single family homes and the
Hawk Hollow golf course. It is bound on
the north by I-69 and the south by the
East Lansing 425 Area. It is bound to the
east by Webster Road and to the west
by Chandler Road, which is the
westernmost boundary of the
Township.
Existing Conditions
Subarea One contains active recreation in
Subarea One
the form of the Hawk Hollow, a 27 hole golf
course with clubhouse and wedding chapel. Unfortunately, the non-motorized facilities in the subarea
are limited to sidewalks constructed on the subdivision streets. The sidewalk has been constructed
primarily on Hawk Hollow Drive.

Subarea Two
Boundaries
Subarea Two is one of the largest subareas and is
dominated by rural land uses and low density
residential. The boundaries of the subarea are well
defined by the Township boundaries to the north and
west and I-69 to the south. The east boundary of
Subarea Two is a north-south line approximately
11,600 feet west of the northwest corner of the
Township. The boundary of Subarea Two does not
include the downtown Bath area and surrounding
subdivisions, which are found in part of Subarea
Three.
Existing Conditions
Subarea Two has no non-motorized facilities.

Subarea Two
6

�Subarea Three
Boundaries
Subarea Three is clearly defined on the south by I-69. The
west boundary is a line drawn from Watson Road to I-69.
The subarea extends east to Bath High School, which is
divided by Subareas Three and Four to the east. The north
boundary of the subarea is a line that generally divides
subdivision development on Sleight Road from the rural
land uses to the north.
Existing Conditions
Most of the non-motorized facilities in Subarea Three
consist of sidewalks. The sidewalks are found within
defined subdivisions, such as Hidden Valley, or on major
streets, such as Webster Road. While disconnects in the
sidewalks exist, the sidewalk network in Subarea Three
makes up one of the two longest unbroken sidewalk
systems in the Township (See figure).
Subarea Three
Even though the sidewalk system is extensive, there are
problems. There are neighborhoods on Sleight Road that
are not connected, an issue that the Bath Township
Downtown Development Authority has recognized in the
past. As a result, the neighborhood sidewalks in Hunters
Crossing subdivision are isolated. The situation in
Somerset, located in the southern part of the subarea, is
similar.
The Bath schools are connected to each other via
sidewalks on Clark Road and Webster Road. However, the
Webster Road sidewalk does not connect to Main Street
sidewalks north of the Bath Middle School. This
connection could be made by continuing the Webster
Road sidewalk approximately 340 feet north to High Street
or by constructing a connection through Couzens Park.

Subarea Three Sidewalks

Subarea Three is also the location of a bicycle lane. The
lane is on the west side of Webster Road between
Drumheller and Park Lake Road. The lane itself lacks any
markings but there is a sign on the southbound lane that
indicates the presence of a bike lane. No such sign exists
for northbound traffic.

7

�Subarea Four
Boundaries
Subarea Four is the largest subarea that is being
evaluated and contains the 2,700 acre Rose Lake
State Recreation Area. It is bound by the
Township lines on the north and the east and I69 to the south.
Existing Conditions
Subarea Four has no known non-motorized
facilities even though it contains the Rose Lake
State Recreation Area. According to the
Michigan Department of Natural Resources’
(MDNR) description of Rose Lake, there are
many recreational opportunities available but
none of them are non-motorized facilities.

Subarea Five
Boundaries
Subarea Five is in the southeasternmost corner
of the Township and is bound on the east and
south by the Township boundaries. The north
boundary of Subarea Five is I-69. The subarea
is bound on the west by BL-69/Saginaw
Highway.

Subarea Four

Existing Conditions
Subarea Five contains Marsh Road, which is
one of the three main north/south
connections with Meridian Township in
Ingham County to the south. Marsh Road
becomes a major corridor in Meridian
Township but terminates at Coleman Road in
Bath Township after crossing Saginaw
Highway.
Subarea Five has almost no non-motorized
facilities. The exceptions are sidewalks in the
Subarea Five
western end of the subarea, as well as
sidewalks on Marsh Road and in the Meadowbrook subdivision. The sidewalks on Marsh Road continue
south into Meridian Township and represent one of only two locations where non-motorized facilities
connect with surrounding communities. The sidewalks in Meadowbrook do not connect to the sidewalk
on Marsh Road. In addition, there are isolated segments of sidewalks in Meadowbrook that do not
connect to the overall Meadowbrook sidewalk system.
8

�Subarea Six
Boundaries
Subarea Six is characterized by Park Lake and
Park Lake Road. Park Lake Road is a major
north/south connection with Meridian
Township to the south, one of only three
such connections in the Township. The
subarea also contains Wiswasser Park, the
Bath Township boat launch, and the Bath
Township public beach, all of which are
located on the north side of Park Lake. It is
also the location of the Timber Ridge golf
club, an 18-hole course on Park Lake Road,
north of Coleman Road. Although not a
recreational facility, Bath Township’s largest
store, Meijer, is also located in Subarea Six,
on Saginaw Highway.

Subarea Six

Subarea Six is bound to the south by the
southern boundary of the Township. The
north boundary is I-69. The east boundary is
made up of BL-69/Saginaw Highway while the
west boundary is the East Lansing 425 Area.
Existing Conditions
There are several sidewalks in Subarea Six.
The majority of these sidewalks are in the
neighborhoods that access from Coleman
Road, or Park Lake Road in the case of
Thorngate Drive (See picture). The sidewalk

Subarea Six Sidewalks
system is the longest continuous sidewalk
system in the Township. However, as
extensive as the system is, Coleman Road
does not have any non-motorized facilities so
the neighborhood sidewalks are inaccessible
to the Township at large. On the other hand,
the neighborhoods overlap the county line to
the south, and the sidewalks follow suit. As a
result, while the neighborhoods are not
connected to the Township, they do
represent non-motorized connections with
Ingham County.
The other non-motorized facility in the
subarea is in front of Meijer on Saginaw
Highway. This is a sidewalk that runs along

Sidewalk in front of Meijer
9

�the north side of Saginaw Highway in a generally east/west orientation. The western end of the sidewalk
ends abruptly at the property line, as shown in the photo.
Subarea Seven
Boundaries
Subarea Seven includes the Bath Township 425 Area, known as Chandler Crossing. The subarea is
strongly oriented north and south along Chandler Road and excludes the East Lansing 425 Area to the
east. The south boundary of the subarea is the Township line while the north boundary is made up of a
line drawn to the west from the East Lansing 425 Area.
Existing Conditions
The Chandler Crossing development is encircled by
Chandler Road, Hunsaker Road, and Coleman Road. There
are sidewalks on Hunsaker and Coleman Roads, as well as
on Chandler Road to the south of Coleman Road. The
Chandler Sidewalk continues south into Ingham County,
giving access to the extensive East Lansing trail system.
The sidewalks continue to the west on Coleman Road and
connect to the only trail that currently connects to Bath
Township. It is a paved trail that is part of the East Lansing
Northern Tier Trail and runs north and south across
Coleman Road.
On April 25, 2017, the Bath Township Planning
Commission held a public hearing for the next phase of
development for Chandler Crossings. At that meeting, the
developers agreed to construct an eight-foot paved trail
along Chandler Road in the front of their development.
This trail will connect to the existing sidewalk system,
giving access to the East Lansing trail system to Bath
Township residents. This trail is expected to be
constructed in 2018.

10

Subarea Seven

�Chapter Three – Recommendations
Known Future Improvements
It is anticipated that Bath Township will see its first two non-sidewalk non-motorized paths. The first one
is located in Subarea 7 and was briefly discussed in Chapter Two. This trail, known as the Chandler Path,
is being built in conjunction with Chandler Lofts, which is the latest development within Chandler
Crossings.
Chandler Lofts is a mixed use
student housing development
with approximately 10,000
square feet of commercial that
will front on Chandler Road.
Chandler Lofts also includes 255
student loft apartments and 24
townhouses. The Chandler Path
was approved as part of
Chandler Lofts.
The path will run parallel with
Chandler Road from existing
sidewalk to the south to the
north property line (Figure 3.1).
This short segment of path,
approximately 550 feet, will give
access to East Lansing’s nonmotorized system to hundreds
of students in the future.
Figure 3.1 – Chandler Path

The second anticipated non-sidewalk
non-motorized path will come in 2019 as
part of an MDOT intersection project at
M-78 (Saginaw Highway) and Marsh
Road. MDOT is redesigning the
intersection to mitigate traffic safety
concerns and constructing a J-turn
intersection, the first of its kind in this
region of Michigan. The Township and
the Clinton County Road Commission are
partnering with MDOT to construct a
shared use path that will run north along
Figure 3.2 – Saginaw Trail
11

�Marsh Road before turning southwest to the Ingham County line (Figure 3.2). It is anticipated that this
will be the first phase of a longer multi-jurisdictional trail that will eventually extend through Meridian
Township and eventually connect with the Lansing River Trail.
The Bath Township segment of the Saginaw Trail will allow non-motorized access for the residents in
Meadowbrook to points on M-78, notably the Meijer store. This connection is accomplished through a
‘Z’ movement through the intersection to allow pedestrians to safely cross the J-turn. Saginaw Trail is
planned to follow and expand on existing sidewalks in the area, which will require easement agreements
with the Township where sidewalks are not in the MDOT right-of-way.

12

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13

�Future Needs
Thanks to the community feedback at the community engagements sessions on October 25, 2017,
Township staff was able to update the future non-motorized needs (Future Non-Motorized
Improvements Map). There are four different types of non-motorized facilities being asked for:
1.
2.
3.
4.

Signage on roads, mainly in conjunction with gravel roads.
Wider shoulders, shown on Park Lake Road from Webster Road to State Road.
Wider shoulders with signs.
Off-road facilities.

The following goals were put together based on comments and survey data.
Goals and Objectives
Goal 1: Bath Township’s non-motorized system should be welcoming and safe.
Objective 1: The Township should work with the Clinton County Road Commission to see that
“Bike Route” signs are installed where called for on the future needs map.
Objective 2: The Township should continue investing in wider shoulders in cooperation with
future Clinton County Road Commission projects, where wider shoulders are called for on the
future needs map.
Objective 3: Continue required developers to construct non-motorized trails where the plan calls
for them, including sidewalks within residential developments as required in the Bath Township
Subdivision Regulations.
Goal 2: Bath Township’s non-motorized system should connect to non-motorized systems outside its
borders.
Objective 1: The Chandler Path should be extended north from Chandler Crossing to Drumheller
Road.
Objective 2: The Township should encourage Meridian Township/Ingham County to connect to
the Saginaw Trail.
Goal 3: Develop creative “outside the box”, cost-effective solutions to meet the needs of multiple user
groups, balanced against existing natural and/or man-made opportunities and constraints.
Objective 1: Work with the Clinton County Drain Commission and the City of East Lansing for the
possibility of building a trail next to the Remy-Chandler Drain.
Goal 4: Develop solutions that are environmentally compatible and sustainable and enhance the natural
resources and points of interest within the Township.
Objective 1: Continue to investigate potential recreational grants so that the Park Lake Trail can
be built.

14

�Appendix One – Survey Results
Survey
The public comment initiative for the non-motorized study was launched with a survey. The survey was
available through multiple outlets, including online and in hard copy. Overall, the survey had 190
responses, although not every respondent answered every question.
1. What is your age category?
The survey asked how old the respondent
was within age categories (Table A.1). All
190 respondents answered this question.

Age Category of Respondents (as a Percentage)

•
Under 18
18-25
26-35

The greatest number of the respondents,
almost 37%, were in the 46-59 year old
category. Only one respondent was under 18
years old.

36-45
46-59

60 and Over
10

20

30

Percentage

Table A.1

2. How long have you lived in Bath
Township?
The survey asked how long the respondent
lived in Bath Township. All 190 respondents
answered this question.

Where Respondents live in Bath

The greatest number (26.8%) of the
respondents have lived in Bath Township for
over 20 years. 25 respondents (13.2%)
reported that they did not reside in Bath
Township.
Table A.2

15

40

Percentage

�3. According to the map below of Bath Charter
Township, where do you live in Bath?
The survey included a colorized map that showed
the subareas and asked respondents to tell what
subarea they lived in (Map A).
A total of 139 respondents answered this
question. Many of the respondents that did not
answer this question may have been nonresidents from question 2 (Table A.2).
The greatest number of the respondents came
from Subarea Six, the Park Lake subarea. Almost
equal numbers came from Subareas Three and
Four, the Downtown and Rose Lake subareas.
These three subareas accounted for 72% of the
total respondents. Only one respondent reported
living in Subarea Seven, the Chandler subarea.

Map A.1

4. How did you access this survey?
Almost half (48.4%) of respondents to this question accessed the survey from the Bath Charter
Township Facebook page. The two next most popular sources were the Tri-County Bicycle Association’s
website and Bath Charter Township’s newsletter. It was worth noting that 19 respondents, 12.1%,
accessed the survey from the Township’s website, which was not an option on the survey.
5. How frequently do you use different forms of non-motorized transportation?
Over 75% of the respondents reported that
Frequency of Use for Non-Molorized AC1ivi1ies (as a Percenlage)
they walk at least once a week (Table A.3).
100
• At Least Once a Week
This was by far the most popular form of
• A Few Times a Year
Never
non-motorized transportation. Over half of
75
the respondents also reported that they
biked at least once a week. By contrast,
so
almost none of the respondents ever ride a
25
skateboard, use a wheelchair, or ride
horses.

Table A.3

16

�6. To what extent do the following barriers limit
your current use of non-motorized
transportation?
Respondents were asked to consider what
barriers limit their use of non-motorized
transportation (Table A.4). Of the respondents
that answered this question, the most common
barriers that limit respondents’ use of nonmotorized transportation are a lack of close
trails, paths that do not connect to each other,
and paths that do not lead to desired
destinations.

How Do These Barriers Limit Non-Motorized Transport?
Moderate to Completely

•

n

n

Lack of Close
Paths to
Residence

- - ~-

Exisi1ng Paths
Do Not
Connect to

SllghllytoNoLlmit

Exisitng Pa1hs Concerns over
Do Not Go
Safety of
'Nhere I Need Exisitng Paths

Each Other

Poo,
Maintenance

ofExisitlng
Sidewalks

Table A.4
7. What elements of a non-motorized plan are most important to you?
Respondents were asked what non-motorized
plan elements are important (Table A.5).
Importance of Features
Respondents were able to select more than
•
one option.
Important

Moderately Important

Unimportant

,:_ • _

Pedestrian and bike safety is overwhelming
the most important element of a nonmotorized plan, it being mentioned by over
85% of the respondents. Over half of the
respondents also said that trail expansion,
trail access, and sidewalk connectivity were
important. Connections to schools were
deemed unimportant by almost 40% of the
respondents.

I_1

1_ 1 _I_

Table A.5

8. How important are the following features to a non-motorized path?
Respondents were asked to rate the importance of
non-motorized path features and were allowed to
How Important are these Features? (Shown as a Percentage)
select more than one element (Table A.6). Safety
was seen as the most important element, followed
by trail access and trail maintenance. The least
important feature was a physical copy of a trail map.
"
"

.
17

•

Safety of Trail

I

I

AccnstoTrail Mainttnaneeol
T,all

I I

WKtlhofT,all

DIg1t1IMap

Table A.6

I

PhyslcalMap

�9.
If improvements were made to a
non-motorized trail system in Bath, how
likely would you use this non-motorized
path for the following activities?
Respondents were asked the likelihood of
use for different potential non-motorized
improvements and how they would use
them. Over 70% of the respondents said
that they would either walk or bike for
recreation. Non-motorized facilities were
not generally seen as viable for errands or
commuting.

Significant Areas in Bath Township

I

SlgnlricanceasaPetcent

Park Lake

I
BalhSC:hools

I
Downtown

BengelWlldbfe
Centet

Couzens Memorial

I
I

""' I
Haslim

I
Balh GotfCourses

I
Chanelle, Crossing

I
0

20

40

60

80

Table A.7
10. What do you believe are the most significant areas of interest to Bath Township? Please select all
that apply.
Respondents were asked to consider specific areas in Bath Township that might be interesting (Table
A.7). Respondents were allowed to select more than one area and were allowed to write in an area that
was not listed.
Among respondents, Park Lake was seen as the most significant area of interest. Other significant areas
are Bath schools and downtown Bath. The lowest rated areas were the Bath golf courses and Chandler
Crossing.
11. How important are these features to a nonmotorized pathway system?
Respondents were asked about the importance
of features on a pathway system (Table A.8).
Respondents were able to select more than one
feature.

Importance of Features (as a Percent)

•

100

Important
Modl!f• te

•
75

50

Most of the respondents reported that they
would like to see pedestrian amenities, such as
benches or trash cans, along non-motorized
trails. An almost equal number said that they
would like to see wayfinding/directional signs.
Water fountains and information stations were
the most unimportant features.

25

Pedestrian
Amenities

Wayfindlng
Signs

Blcycle Racks

lnfom,atlve
Stations

Table A.8

18

Water Fountains

IJnimpol'tant

�Financing Tools for Non-Motorized Investments (as a Percent)
I

I

1

Grants

I

Existing
Township Funds 1
Crowd funding/
Fundraising I

I
I
I

Millage

I
Bonds/Loans

I

12.
What types of financing tools would
you consider supporting for non-motorized
investments? Please select all that apply.
Respondents were asked to consider what
financing tools they would use to fund nonmotorized improvements (Table 3.9).
Respondents were able to select more than
one financial tool.

Personal User Of
Registration Fees

The most popular financing tool was grants,
with over 70% of respondents supporting
this method. Over 60% of respondents also
supported crowdfunding and using existing
Table A.9
Township funds. The most unpopular
funding source was a special assessment, but loans and user fees also lacked support as well.
Special ~
Assessment

13. Do you have any other thoughts, suggestions, or ideas about a non-motorized pathway system in
Bath Charter Township?
Fifty-Four respondents took the time to write in additional comments. Ten respondents said that more
paths would be beneficial because of busy roads and increased safety. Eight respondents wanted more
non-motorized connections to surrounding communities. Seven respondents asked for more
connections to Park Lake while another seven asked for bike lanes on Park Lake Road. Ten respondents
generally indicated that a non-motorized system would be a waste of money.

19

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                <text>Postcards</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/"&gt;Copyright Undetermined&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="1032350">
                <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives</text>
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              <description>A name given to the resource</description>
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                  <text>Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History</text>
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              <description>An account of the resource</description>
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              <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
              <elementTextContainer>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/"&gt;Copyright Undetermined&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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              <description>The topic of the resource</description>
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                  <text>Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)</text>
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              </elementTextContainer>
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              <description>The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource</description>
              <elementTextContainer>
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                  <text>application/pdf</text>
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                  <text>Text</text>
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              <description>A language of the resource</description>
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              <name>Date</name>
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            <name>Identifier</name>
            <description>An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context</description>
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                <text>DC-07_SD-Heuchan_Bathing-Suits</text>
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            <description>A name given to the resource</description>
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                <text>Bathing Suits</text>
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            <name>Description</name>
            <description>An account of the resource</description>
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                <text>Photograph of four individuals in what appears to be bathing suits. The photo has been damaged slightly with time. At the top of the image, there is a set of handwritten text that reads “Taken on front of now [unknown] cottage on left + [unknown]. Hollard cottage on right.” Below the image “1923-24-25 era LTOR” is handwritten, as well as the names of those depicted.</text>
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            <name>Subject</name>
            <description>The topic of the resource</description>
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                <text>Saugatuck (Mich.)</text>
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                <text>Beaches</text>
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                <text>Outdoor recreation</text>
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                <text>Families</text>
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                <text>Children</text>
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                <text>Digital file collected by the Kutsche Office of History as part of the Stories of Summer Project.</text>
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            <name>Relation</name>
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                <text>Stories of Summer (project)</text>
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            <name>Rights</name>
            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="839009">
                <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/"&gt;Copyright Undetermined&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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            <description>The nature or genre of the resource</description>
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            <name>Format</name>
            <description>The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource</description>
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                <text>image/jpeg</text>
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            <name>Publisher</name>
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              <elementText elementTextId="1033629">
                <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives</text>
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              <description>A name given to the resource</description>
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                  <text>Faces of Grand Valley</text>
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              <description>An entity primarily responsible for making the resource</description>
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                  <text>Grand Valley State University</text>
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              <description>An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource</description>
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                  <text>University Communications</text>
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              <name>Description</name>
              <description>An account of the resource</description>
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                  <text>A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community.</text>
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              <name>Date</name>
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              <description>A related resource from which the described resource is derived</description>
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                  <text>GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files</text>
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              </elementTextContainer>
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              <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
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                  <text>In Copryight</text>
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              <description>The topic of the resource</description>
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                  <text>Grand Valley State University</text>
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                  <text>College administrators</text>
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                <elementText elementTextId="887521">
                  <text>College teachers</text>
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                  <text>Colleges and universities -- Faculty</text>
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              <description>An entity responsible for making the resource available</description>
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                  <text>Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives</text>
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                  <text>GV012-03</text>
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              <name>Language</name>
              <description>A language of the resource</description>
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                <elementText elementTextId="887528">
                  <text>eng</text>
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            <description>An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="888850">
                <text>BatiDennisKeith_Photo02</text>
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            <name>Creator</name>
            <description>An entity primarily responsible for making the resource</description>
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                <text>Grand Valley State University. University Communications</text>
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          <element elementId="50">
            <name>Title</name>
            <description>A name given to the resource</description>
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                <text>Batit, Dennis Keith</text>
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          <element elementId="41">
            <name>Description</name>
            <description>An account of the resource</description>
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                <text>Dennis Keith Batt, Housing</text>
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            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="49">
            <name>Subject</name>
            <description>The topic of the resource</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="888854">
                <text>Grand Valley State University – History</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="888855">
                <text>College administrators</text>
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                <text>Universities and colleges – Faculty</text>
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          <element elementId="48">
            <name>Source</name>
            <description>A related resource from which the described resource is derived</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="888857">
                <text>University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03)</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="45">
            <name>Publisher</name>
            <description>An entity responsible for making the resource available</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="888858">
                <text>Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives</text>
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          </element>
          <element elementId="47">
            <name>Rights</name>
            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="888859">
                <text>In Copyright</text>
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            </elementTextContainer>
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          <element elementId="51">
            <name>Type</name>
            <description>The nature or genre of the resource</description>
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                <text>Image</text>
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            </elementTextContainer>
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          <element elementId="42">
            <name>Format</name>
            <description>The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="888861">
                <text>image/jpeg</text>
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          <element elementId="44">
            <name>Language</name>
            <description>A language of the resource</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="888862">
                <text>eng</text>
              </elementText>
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