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&#13;
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&#13;
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                    <text>ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW
ANNIE MEYER
Born: Hancock, Minnesota
Resides: Holland, Michigan
Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project
Transcribed by: Claire Herhold, January 20, 2013
Interview length: 22:20
Interviewer: Mrs. Meyer, can you start by telling us a little bit about your personal
background? To start with, where and when were you born?
I was born in Minnesota, Hancock. It was a very small town. And I was born into a large
family. I was third oldest. We had nine children. And my mom and dad were… Dad was a
farmer. We lived on a big farm and we had cows and horses. All the field work was done with
horses at first and then we got into tractors.
Interviewer: You’re growing up in the era of the Depression. Is your family able to hang
on to the farm in that period?
Yes, we were. And, in fact, I remember during the war, then things were more expensive and
prices were up for what dad sold so he was able to pay for the farm, and that was a good feeling.
1:05 Otherwise he had to farm and give a share of it to the owner of the crops and things. That’s
the way they worked it.
Interviewer: So he was getting by, because he didn’t actually own the land, he didn’t have a
mortgage to pay in the ‘30s, he was just sharecropping at that point?
I guess you’d call it that, yeah.
Voice Offscreen: No, he owned it, Ann.
After a while, yeah. Well, he had to pay for it by the sharecropping. I don’t know how many…

�Interviewer: Well, they may have arranged the purchase agreement where he had to pay
for it through sharecropping or whatever but it enabled you to kind of stay in the same
place and not have to move around a lot or switch jobs.
I only ever remember living in that one farm.
Interviewer: What kind of schooling did you get?
I had eight years in a one room schoolhouse. We had all the grades and one teacher. First off,
we had quite a few kids like, fourteen, and then by the time I was in the fourth grade we were
way down. 2:07 At one time there were four from my family that were in school and only three
other kids. It was rather strange.
Interviewer: Was that just shifts in population or were kids going off and working?
No, it was the older ones were graduated and there wasn’t that much of younger ones to come in.
We lived two and half miles from school and we had to walk or else we took a horse and buggy,
and we managed to do that for a number of years. I had, like I said, the eight years, and I had
always wanted to be a nurse, and of course you needed more education, at least a high school.
And I had to stay home and help on the farm so I didn’t get the high school.
Interviewer: So that’s basically what you’re doing through a lot of your teenage years is
you’re just kind of out there on the farm. Did you have a radio or anything like that or
were you too far away? 3:05
I remember when we got radio. I remember when we got electricity. And it was really
something. We had a twenty five watt bulb in the middle of the ceiling. Boy, we had light.
Interviewer: Was this part of the rural electrification process?

�Yes, yes. First Dad had a little plant of his own, and when rural electrification came through,
then he was able to switch to that. Then he had it in all the buildings. First he had it in only a
couple of them.
Interviewer: Did you have any sense, I don’t know if you were old enough to think about it
then, did you have any sense of what your father or your parents thought about a lot of the
government’s policies regarding agriculture and that sort of stuff in that period?
I didn’t hear an awful lot about it. The prices of things, that I would hear about, and then Dad
would always kind of watched that when he sold the pigs or sold some cow, something like that.
4:04 He tried to pick when it was the highest. And of course the grain was always something.
He harvested that. You had to get rid of it whether you wanted to or not, but you couldn’t keep.
Interviewer: In some areas of the country there were agricultural agents and things like
that out there who were dictating policies of different kinds.
There was an agricultural town, Morris, right close by us. There was a man there that used to
come out and talk with Dad.
Interviewer: But he wasn’t somebody who was interfering with them or anything, he was
just offering advice or suggestions?
Yeah, more or less. Yes. The Farm Bureau was another organization that farmers could join and
learn about things too. We didn’t have a daily newspaper all the time. There were times when
Dad would subscribe to it. If he did the mailman would come around every day and give us the
paper. It was always a day late. 5:05
Interviewer: Right. Where would you get the paper from?
Minneapolis.
Interviewer: Minneapolis. How far were you from Minneapolis?

�150 miles.
Interviewer: Ok, so that’s a good ways. Did you get to go into the city occasionally when
you were a kid?
I did a couple of times but it wasn’t a really big ambition of ours. Morris was big enough. I was
at the cities to the state fair one time. I had won a prize. I won first place in a declamatory
contest that was held in the public schools in the county and they would have one field day,
they’d have all the speakers give their speeches, and they’d have to find out who’d win first.
And the first one would go to the cities where the state fair there. And I did that one year.
Interviewer: Do you remember what you talked about?
I think that one was a humorous one. 6:03 I preferred having more serious ones, but it was the
humorous one that got me to the cities.
Interviewer: As you were kind of, getting a little older and so forth, in the period right
before Pearl Harbor, were you paying much attention to the news in the world and things
like that?
Yeah, I think so. Especially because I had two brothers that were eligible for the draft and of
course, they had to sign up for it.
Interviewer: That’s right, because the draft was going on before the war started.
And so when their time came, rather than go in where they didn’t want to, they wanted to be in
the Navy so they enlisted. They stayed together through the whole war and they had very
traumatic experiences but they both came home.
Interviewer: Were they serving on a ship together?
Yes, yes they were. 7:01 And it was a liberty ship, I believe. And it would ferry certain groups
of soldiers with all their equipment from one place to the other. They were in the South Pacific.

�Interviewer: Would they have been anti-aircraft gunners on those ships or things like that?
There were, yes, and they each had, I guess, to take their places when it was time.
Interviewer: It wasn’t quite, maybe, as dangerous as being on some of those combat ships
at the very start of the war, or whatever.
Probably not. But they were hit twice.
Interviewer: Were they already in the service at the point when the Sullivan brothers went
down? Because you had five brothers on the same ship. Did that…?
Yes, that was really something. We had a small church in our town and I think we had probably,
I had to think, seven boys out of that church and about thirty five families. That’s a lot. 8:08
Interviewer: Seven boys that got killed, you mean?
No, they just went in the service. One was killed.
Interviewer: How would you say the war itself wound up affecting life in the town there
during the time you were there?
Well, I could tell you about the farm. The town it didn’t affect it much, except the gas shortages
and certain groceries. We had the stamps, stamps for flour, for coffee, for sugar, for meat, and
you had to…you were issued those. I guess they came through mail, I don’t even know. And
you, when they were gone, that was it, until your next issue was ready.
Interviewer: Since you were on a farm, does that sort of change the way things affect you?
9:03
We always had meat, of course, and dairy products. Butter was another thing that was rationed,
but we had our own. It didn’t affect us as much as a lot of people, but we always had to get
sugar. Flour, my dad used to take wheat in to a flour mill and have it ground and then he’d come
back with flour, so that was no problem.

�Interviewer: Was there a problem with things like … now did you have farm equipment
that required gasoline at that point?
Tractors, yeah. We had two tractors, three tractors.
Interviewer: And was there an adequate ration to run the tractors?
We had enough, yeah. We were able to do it. We always had a five hundred gallon tank on the
farm that some truck would come out and fill every so often and that’s what we used. My sister
just younger than I, three years younger…when the boys were in service, we did all the tractor
work. 10:02 My dad had quite a few acres the first year, and then he had rented some, so then he
let some of it go. But I think it must have been hard on him because we had to learn everything,
you know?
Interviewer: How old was your sister when she started driving a tractor?
Well, I was…let’s see, I was about, I think I was eighteen when the boys went into service and
that’s when we started. I had driven tractor for harvesting before that, but Audrey didn’t. She
started in right from the beginning there.
Interviewer: But she was still fifteen, which is not quite the same as being nine or
something like that.
No. Oh no, Dad wouldn’t have allowed that. But, yeah, we had to do all the tractor work.
Interviewer: Did the tractors have rubber tires or metal tires?
Ours did. First off, the one did. My sister and I both had tractors with rubber tires.
Interviewer: Were there problems getting those replaced or did you just keep using the
same ones? 11:03
We were able to keep the same ones. They kept going.
Interviewer: Tires were another thing that was a serious shortage.

�I don’t ever remember Dad ever replacing a tire on a tractor. Isn’t that something? He’s had
them for years.
Interviewer: Did they get flats that he would fix or did they just keep running?
It’s possible that one went flat once, but they would fix it, yeah. You didn’t go out and buy one
right away.
Interviewer: At a certain point in the process, you eventually do pick up and leave home.
How did that come about?
I don’t know why I…how come the folks let me go at that particular time, because the war was
still on and the boys were still gone. It would be my sister and Dad then. But I had wanted to be
a nurse as long as I could remember. 12:00 In September of that year, then, I went to the east
coast, to New Jersey, Wyckoff, New Jersey. That particular institution had a shorter chance to
finish my course, two years instead of three. I had a place to live like at a nurses’ residence.
And I figured when I was finished I’d come home and get work at home. But that first year, I
asked permission from the institution if I could go home and help Dad through the summer and
they gave me that. I didn’t have classes during that time, but I missed the clinical, so to speak.
And my sister and I helped Dad yet that summer. In the fall I went back to New Jersey and did
my second year. They, at that point, they didn’t allow nurses to be married and work there.
13:02 Well, we got engaged and we were going to get married and I said, well, I’ll work those
three months that I missed in order to get the full time in after I was married. They wouldn’t
allow it, so I really never got a signed certificate from them. I did finish the work.
Interviewer: What kind of training did they actually give you? What did school consist of?
Well, it was a psychiatric institution so a lot of it was on psychology and psychiatry and things
like that. But we got a lot of anatomy. We didn’t have laboratory work like you would get in a

�large nursing school because it was private, it was limited. So we got a touch of, a little bit of
everything.
Interviewer: Were there patients where you were or was this just a school?
Oh yes. We worked full-time while we were in training. 14:00
Interviewer: Was that what paid for the training or did you have tuition fees?
I guess you kind of worked it out. We did get a small amount of pay, and of course, living there
with residence with room and board, that was given. But like I say, we worked full time and we
worked hard too. It was hard work, so I think they got their money’s worth.
Interviewer: Were the patients there people out of the civilian population or were there any
soldiers who were back who were there?
No, it was all civilian. It was totally psychiatric. We didn’t have other patients.
Interviewer: Was that difficult to deal with? If you have a mental hospital, essentially, was
it hard work to do, just mentally?
It’s hard because your patients, in the first place, can’t communicate with you very well and
some of them are also physically very handicapped, so you do a lot for them. 15:05 They don’t
do much for themselves. And you always had a bunch of keys on you. You locked the doors
behind you, you had to unlock before you get in. It was so different than today. They had
medications but nothing like it is today. The psychiatric…I don’t think they have real
psychiatric hospitals, as such, now. There’s a portion of a regular hospital that is mental, but
that’s the extent of it.
Interviewer: Well, a lot more things are done on an out-patient basis and that kind of thing
as well, so there’s different places. Was this different from what you thought you had
signed up for? Or did you know going in what you were going to get?

�I didn’t really know what it was like, because I hadn’t had any contact really with mental patients
so it was entirely new to me. But I adjusted quite well and I felt pretty much at home with the
girls that I worked with and I found a church I was at home in. 16:07 That part was ok. When I
was still home yet, there… most of the guys were gone, so it was all girls really. Living on the
farm, we really didn’t have a lot of recreational things. Our people that we went and did things
with were our own brothers and sisters so we had plenty of those.
Interviewer: Did you have extended family in Minnesota? Were there uncles and cousins
and things like that?
Oh yeah. Mom had two, three sisters and a brother in Iowa, but the sisters were around home.
Now Dad’s family was in California, so he didn’t have any. But Mom’s whole family was by us.
17:00
Interviewer: Since part of what happens here is the family is going to get a copy of this
interview, they’re going to want this in there, why don’t you give us your version of how it
was that you met your husband?
Well, like you say, he got discharged on a Sunday evening and came home and went to church
with his mother and sister and brother. And I went to church too, but I came from the nurses’
station. We had a transportation car that would bring us to our churches and pick us up at a
designated spot. Transportation at that point was by bus if there was one, because gas was
rationed and you didn’t ask people to do things for you very easily. After church then we went
to his mother’s house and we had refreshments and he took us home. 18:00 And he said in the
car that he sang in the choir, because I was in choir. I said, “Well hey, we need basses.” And he
sang bass, so I said, “why don’t you come to choir?” So he said, “Well, maybe I will.” So then
he decided he would join choir, and then he picked me up and brought me home. So that was the

�way we started. And on my birthday he…well, that Christmas we spent with his… no I spent
that one at the san because I was working. I was on nights at that point. So Thanksgiving I spent
with his family and got to know some of them that way.
Interviewer: Had he met any of your family before you got married?
Did I have any of…?
Interviewer: Did any of your family meet him?
No, he didn’t meet my family until he came out when we got married, and that was in July.
19:05 I had gone ahead. I was finished with school, and I had gone ahead and got everything
ready. When he came we got married and then moved back to New Jersey.
Interviewer: What was your family’s response to the news you were getting married to
some guy they hadn’t met?
I think my mother said to me, she said, “I kind of could read between the lines.” I wrote home
almost every day, and you don’t realize that, I guess, when you’re writing at that, it’s telling
something different. When I was in training I had a lot of friends, soldiers that were in the
service. I used to write a lot. They used to laugh at me. I used to have the most mail. They’d
bring the mail in and put it out on a table, and sometimes I’d have as many as seven letters. But I
wrote a lot too, so it worked both ways. 20:01
Interviewer: After you got married, did you hold jobs in different places or did you just
start a family?
I stayed home. My husband said I didn’t have to work, so that was a very easy, nice part of my
life. You know, before I had children, it wasn’t busy at all. I could do what I wanted to. I think
I slept my life away.

�Interviewer: I suppose after growing up on a farm and having to be doing farm work from
the time you were a young teenager and so forth, onward, that yeah, a little bit of a break
might not be such a bad thing.
I enjoyed it. It really was nice. And then we had the children, of course. We had four, three
girls and a boy. That kept us busy. We lived very frugally, one paycheck to the next, but we
never had any lack of anything really necessary, so we were very thankful for that. 21:00
Interviewer: Again, to go back to the period of the war there a little bit, did they do much
out in a small farm town by way…in the cities and things they had scrap drives and paper
drives and things like that. All kind of to support the war effort activity, or war bond sales.
Did that stuff happen in a place like Hancock, Minnesota?
Yeah, it did. They were asking for lard, fat, you know, and the farmers would have access to that
to bring into town. I don’t know how it got…where it went after that, after we brought it into
town, but yeah, we did that. Paper drives, I don’t remember about.
Interviewer: That might have been less because you wouldn’t have the concentration of
people all together who were all getting newspapers or things like that.
No, in fact we didn’t have one for a while. But, I think it was a, certainly a time of growing up,
for me anyway, for a lot of us. 22:07
Interviewer: Well thank you for taking the time to tell your story to me.
You’re welcome.

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                <text>Annie Meyer grew up on a farm in Minnesota during the Depression.  In her interview, she describes farm life during the Depression and during the first part of World War II. She also describes attending nursing school during the war and working at a psychiatric hospital during the war, and discusses various aspects of home front life.</text>
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                <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives</text>
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                    <text>Meyer, J.P.
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: Vietnam War
Interviewee’s Name: J.P. Meyer
Length of Interview: (1:45:58)
Interviewed by: James Smither
Transcribed by: Chelsea Chandler
Interviewer: “All right, J.P., start us out with some background on yourself, and to begin
with, where and when were you born?”
I was born January 5th, 1947 in Marshalltown, Iowa.
Interviewer: “All right. Now did you grow up there, or did you move around?”
I grew up on a dairy farm in a small community about twenty-five miles north of Marshalltown
called Wellsburg, Iowa.
Interviewer: “Okay, and what part of Iowa is that in?”
Central part.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right, and did you finish high school?”
I did.
Interviewer: “When did you graduate?”
1965.
Interviewer: “Okay, and then what did you do after you got out of high school?”
I enrolled at South Dakota State University in pre-pharmacy.
Interviewer: “Okay, and then how long did you stay there?”
I was there until April of 1968.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now did you complete your program there, or…?”
I completed it after my active duty army time. (1:02)
Interviewer: “Okay, and so how is it that you wound up in the army?”

�Meyer, J.P.
I dropped out of school, and I wanted to fly. I had taken flying lessons while I was at South
Dakota State. So I actually went down to the Air National Guard unit in Sioux Falls and got on
their wait list for pilot training. I was number 102 on the wait list, so it didn’t look very likely
that I was going to go to Air Force pilot training. And they required four years of college. The
army would allow you to go through the warrant officer flight training program if you had a
certain number of semester hours of college credit, which I had, so I went down to the post office
in Brookings, South Dakota on April 26th and enlisted in the army for the warrant officer flight
training program.
Interviewer: “All right. Now a lot of people probably don’t even know what a warrant
officer is, so can you explain that?”
Well, warrant officers are—I guess you would consider them technical type officers. They were
in the supply field, logistics, and, of course, during the Vietnam War, most of the warrant
officers were helicopter pilots. (2:10)
Interviewer: “All right, and how do they compare with standard commissioned officers?”
We were below the regular commissioned officers. There were—At the time, there were four
grades of warrant officer. They’ve since expanded it as I understand it, but back then there was—
The grades were W-1 through W-4.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right, and you could do this without going through all of the things
involved in becoming an officer, but you still get your own things.”
Yes, yes. Yeah, we went through a different type of program.
Interviewer: “Okay, okay. Now when you signed up, how many years were you signing up
for?”
You know, I honestly don’t remember. We had our obligation after flight training, but I can’t
remember exactly what it was.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right, so now where do they send—Now do you do a regular army
basic training first, or did they send you—”
I went to basic training at Fort Polk, Louisiana in August. It was very hot, and from there—when
we finished basic training—I went to Fort Wolters, Texas for primary helicopter school.
Interviewer: “Okay, so the training at Fort Polk. That was standard army basic training?”
Yes.
Interviewer: “So what was that like other than hot?”

�Meyer, J.P.
It was miserable. It was—After I’d been to Fort Polk for about six weeks, I—You just—You’re
so entrenched in basic training. You really don’t think about anything else. It was—It was hot
and, like I said, pretty miserable.
Interviewer: “Okay. Well, how did the instructors treat you?”
Like a typical drill sergeant back in that day and age. They’d be in your face, screaming. You’d
be standing at attention. They didn’t physically touch us or hurt us, but you were always thinking
that they would if they had to. That’s kind of how—That’s what the environment was like back
then.
Interviewer: “Okay, and how much of the emphasis was just on drill and discipline?”
(4:00)
All of it. Basically, you did what the army told you to do, and they were, I guess, developing a
mindset of what they were looking for in a soldier.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now were you training alongside people who were draftees, or were
they all enlistees? Or do you not know?”
There was a mix. We had a lot of draftees.
Interviewer: “Okay, and how did the other guys respond to the treatment?”
We had a couple of guys that—We had one particular guy from Mississippi who was a little on
the heavy side, and I know on one of our marches he just fell out. He couldn’t go anymore. But
everybody was kind of in their own world and struggled to get through it. They—The
environment just gives you a certain mindset like, “Okay, here’s what we’re going to do next.”
And then you always look forward to getting through for the day, so you could get some rest.
And, of course, the barracks were un-air-conditioned, and you’d wake up with your sheets wet in
the morning from sweating all night. It was hot.
Interviewer: “All right. Now how long did that last?”
Eight weeks.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right, and then your next step from there?”
From basic training I went to Fort Wolters, Texas. They took us by bus from Fort Polk,
Louisiana to Fort Wolters. And we got to Fort Wolters, and the TAC officer as they were called
got on the bus and was wearing a shiny helmet liner, carrying a—I think it was some kind of 40
mm round all polished up. And tapping it in his hand and being very nice. And saying,
“Welcome, gentlemen to Fort Wolters, Texas. You’re here for your basic, primary helicopter
training.” And then he just started screaming at us, and he says, “Now you have twenty seconds
to get your you know what off this bus and get in formation.” (6:01) And we were in formation
in the street, and it was hot in Texas during—in August and September. And we had one

�Meyer, J.P.
gentleman who was prior service as they say. Had medals on and had a—I think he was a staff
sergeant actually. And the drill sergeant came by and ripped his medals off his shirt and ripped
the stripes off his sleeve, and he says, “You’re now a warrant officer candidate, and you’re lower
than whale shit on the bottom of the ocean.” So it was—The first four weeks of helicopter—
primary helicopter school are—I guess you’d call it indoctrination. We didn’t fly. We went to
class, and we were harassed a lot. Middle—Inspections in the middle of the night. Get out in the
street. You’re standing out there in the dark at two o’clock in the morning in formation, and
they’re going through and inspecting the troops. The TAC officer would, and then he’d tell you,
“You’ve got five minutes to get back upstairs, change into your class A’s, and get back out
here.” So we’d go change uniforms and come right back out and get inspected again. That lasted
for the first four weeks, and then once we started flight training, we had to get crew rest. They
were required to give us a certain number of hours of sleep before we could do anything else,
and so the harassment wasn’t nearly as intense after that.
Interviewer: “All right. Now the—So what are you actually learning in the first four
weeks?”
Well, you’re learning—In class we’re learning about the helicopter and how it’s built, how it
operates. Learning basic flying information. Navigation, what air speed means, and things like
that. And you learn a certain amount of—They went through the checklist, and we’d learn how
to start the helicopter. We’d learn how to preflight it. Look for defects. (8:01)
Interviewer: “So were you getting into helicopters but not flying them, or…?”
No, we weren’t. We weren’t allowed on the flight line the first four weeks. We had one
individual who was in our barracks, and, as I recall, his name was Jackie Wilson from Fort
Worth. We had our helmets issued to us, and we had them up on the top of our lockers. And one
day after class, Jackie got his helmet out, and everybody asked him, “What are you doing?” He
says, “Well, I’m going flying.” And he went to the flight line, and he got in a TH-55. And he got
it started. I think—as I recall—he had to have a maintenance man help him get it started. And he
got it up to flying speed and picked it up to a hover. And, of course, he didn’t know how to fly a
helicopter, but now he’s at a hover in a TH-55. And, from what I’m told, he—Actually, what he
thought was—It started vibrating real bad, and there’s a condition called ground resonance in a
TH-55. And the solution for that is to get it off the ground. Pick it up. He thought he was getting
into ground resonance, so he picked it up to a hover. And now he’s at a hover, and obviously he
doesn’t know how to fly a helicopter because he hasn’t been trained yet. And they say he got it
back to the ground, and he bounced on one skid, bounced on the other skid, and then turned it on
its side and destroyed it. He survived, and I think—as I recall—he got court martialed. So that
was an interesting event in our first four weeks of pilot training at Fort Wolters.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now—So for the rest of you—Now did people wash out of
those first four weeks, or did everyone get through?”
Not that I recall. I think we all—We all made it through the first four weeks.

�Meyer, J.P.
Interviewer: “All right. Okay, so now they actually put you in a helicopter, and do you
start flying right away at least with an instructor, or…?”
Mm-hmm.
Interviewer: “Okay, so how does that process work?” (10:00)
Well, we all go out to the—We went out to the flight line. We each were assigned to an
instructor, and my instructor was the flight commander. So I—A lot of the students flew to the
stage field. We went from the main heliport in Fort Wolters to different stage fields for training
for—to practice. And my—And many of the students were bused out. My instructor was the
flight commander, so he and I got in a helicopter—and that was my first helicopter ride in the
military—and flew from there to the stage field, which was north of Fort Wolters about—oh, I’m
guessing—seven or eight or nine miles.
Interviewer: “Okay. Were you using a TH-55 at that point?”
I was in the Hiller OH-23.
Interviewer: “Okay. Describe that as what—as a machine relative to the TH-55 or
something else.”
The Hiller is probably fifty percent larger than the TH-55. The TH-55 was a very small
helicopter. The Hiller was—had a bubble like the old Bell helicopters. When I describe the
helicopters that I flew back then, I ask people if they remember the old TV show, The
Whirlybirds, because it had the big, glass bubble. It was a two-seat helicopter with a
reciprocating engine. Had a tail boom that slanted up—the TH-55’s tail boom went straight
back—and it was a two-bladed helicopter and vibrated a lot. My first impression when the
instructor picked the helicopter up to a hover—I felt like I was trying to balance—And I wasn’t
flying it, but the sensation I had was trying to stand on top of a basketball on a pogo stick. That’s
what it felt like. So I—You know, your thought is, “How am I ever going to learn to fly this
machine?” But we did.
Interviewer: “Okay, so how does he go about teaching you?”
We’d go out to a stage field that had—I think they each had four lanes, and you would hover
down a lane. He’d teach you to hover first, and we did it off to the side of the lanes. (12:05) And
you could tell students who—when a student was flying and when an instructor was flying
because when the student—New students would take the controls. You’d see the helicopter start
to drift in all different directions and back and side and forward, and all of a sudden it would go,
“Whoop.” Right back to where it started. And you knew the instructor took the controls at that
point. And you just basically did that over and over until you got the feel for how to fly a
helicopter, and it kind of became a natural thing like when you try to learn to ride a bike.
Interviewer: “All right, and so how long then were you doing that?”

�Meyer, J.P.
We were—Well, the entire primary helicopter phase lasted from—I guess we started flying in
September, and we finished, as I recall, in late December. And we learned to hover, and then we
would take off and fly traffic patterns. And, after a while, when the instructor felt like you were
safe enough, he would get out, and you’d have your first solo. And I think I soloed a
helicopter—I think I had nine hours of flight time. And I remember being at Downwind the first
time I soloed, looking down and flying this machine that was shaking and thinking, “What in the
hell are you doing up here, Meyer? You don’t know how to operate this machine.” But I got it
back on the ground safely, and, after a while, it just became very natural.
Interviewer: “All right, and in that level of training, did other people have accidents, or did
everyone get through?”
There were accidents. There were mid-air collisions. I was—We were on a night flight—a solo
night flight—one time, and there was a student in a TH-55 that apparently was lost. (14:04) I
was coming into Wolters main from the north, and they were talking about him on the radio. But
they couldn’t get him to reorient himself, and then I saw a flash of light off to the east. And he
had flown through some high tension wires, and the aircraft hit the ground and exploded. He was
burned very badly. He survived the crash but died in the hospital.
Interviewer: “Do you think you were better off because you had the commander train you?
Was he—”
No, all the instructors were extremely talented people. Good helicopter pilots, good instructor
pilots. Some of them were a little more aggressive than others, and the—Excuse me. And the
commander just flew to the stage field with me. He wasn’t my regular instructor.
Interviewer: “Okay, okay. All right, so now when you complete that, now do you move on
to more advanced helicopters?”
When we completed our training at Fort Wolters, we moved to Fort Rucker, Alabama, and we
started out in the Bell TH-13 in instrument training. We did our instrument training there at Shell
field outside of Enterprise, Alabama, and then, once we finished instrument training, we moved
on to tactical training. And that was done in Hueys. We learned to fly the Huey.
Interviewer: “Now with the instrument training are you actually flying a helicopter and
relying on instruments, or are you on the ground?”
No, you’re in the helicopter under a hood, and flying just by reference to the instruments. You’re
actually not qualified—As a student, we weren’t actually qualified in the TH-13. We just flew it
with an instructor for instrument training, and all of that training was with an instructor. There
was no solo time.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right, but then you move on to the Huey. Now how is a Huey
different from the other things you had flown?”

�Meyer, J.P.
It was a lot bigger, and it had—It was a much more modern helicopter. Had better instruments.
(16:03) And it was fully instrumented in terms of flying in the clouds and just a lot bigger,
heavier machine. And it had a turbine engine instead of reciprocating engine, and a reciprocating
engine helicopter—Part of what you have to do when you fly it is manage the RPM, and you do
that manually with a throttle that’s on the collective. In a Huey, it had a governor on the turbine
engine, which would maintain a certain RPM, so you didn’t have to worry about twisting a
throttle. You just pulled—You pulled pitch, and as you pulled pitch, the engine would develop
more power to compensate for the increased power requirement.
Interviewer: “All right, and—So how long now do you spend at Fort Rucker?”
Well, we spent the rest of our training at Fort Rucker, and we graduated in May of 1970. Or—
I’m sorry. ‘69. 1969. And then I went from flight training direct to Chinook transition. When I
was at Fort Wolters, we had a Chinook fly over the field one day, and I was just fascinated with
that helicopter. And I like big machinery. And so I went in to see my TAC officer, which is not
something you typically did back then. You didn’t want to see your TAC officer. But I went in to
see him and asked him how I could get into Chinooks. He said, “Well, Meyer, I’ll tell you what.
Here’s how it works. You’re going to graduate from pilot training, you’re going to fly Hueys in
Vietnam, and if you survive that year, you can come back and we’ll send you to Chinook
transition if that’s what you want to do. And then we’ll send you back to Vietnam to fly
Chinooks for a year.” And I said, “Well, some students get Chinook training right out of pilot
training.” He said, “Oh, yeah, if you graduate first in your class, you might get a Chinook
transition.” (18:02) So I said, “Thank you. That’s all I wanted to know.” And I started gunning,
studying—I had a pilot’s license when I went to the army, so I basically knew how to fly. And I
started studying under the covers at night with a flashlight in the barracks after lights out. And I
graduated first in my class when we finished at Fort Rucker, and we got one Chinook allocation.
So I took it, and what that did—The army decided not long before we graduated that if you got a
certain transition—and Chinook was one of them—you had to sign up voluntary indefinite
status, which means the army had you as long as they wanted you. But I thought the trade-off
was worth it, so I—I had some of my classmates ask me, “Now what are you going to do,
Meyer?” I said, “I’m going voluntary indefinite because I’m going to Chinook transition.”
Because by then you’d heard about all the—We had heard about all the Hueys—Well, I knew
when I went into helicopters that it was very risky, and it was an automatic ticket pretty much to
going to Vietnam. Flying helicopters. So I thought flying Chinooks would be a lot safer than
flying Hueys.
Interviewer: “All right, so now do you go—then go on to Chinook training?”
I went to Chinook transition and then went to Vietnam in August of 1969.
Interviewer: “Yeah. Okay, so August of ‘69. So, I guess, when we were—I don’t know—
originally recording your dates—And so you would’ve enlisted in ‘68 then?”
I enlisted in ‘68. Yes.

�Meyer, J.P.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Okay, so the Chinook transition—I mean, how long does
that take, or how complicated was that?” (20:06)
It was—As I recall it, it was a six-week transition. Six or seven weeks. Well, the Chinook’s a
very large helicopter—has two engines, two rotor systems—and it’s not a conventional
helicopter. It’s a tandem rotor helicopter, so it flies a little bit differently. In most respects, it’s
easier to fly because you don’t have the anti-torque system to worry about. It had a stabilization
system because the rotors are equal in size, so the back rotor wants to fly as fast as the front
rotor. So without the stabilization system, it became very unstable and yaw, and it was a little bit
tricky. Boeing made some design changes to it when they developed the B and C model, but the
A model was pretty squirrely as we call it if the stabilization system was turned off.
Interviewer: “All right. Now over the course of your training, you’ve been in Texas, you’ve
been in Alabama, and where do they do the Chinook training?”
Alabama. Fort Rucker.
Interviewer: “Alabama. Okay. Now you’re in—You’re now, you know—You’re now down
south. You’re in the area that is sort of still in the process of desegregating. I mean, did you
notice a different way of life in those places, or did you just stay focused on what you were
doing?”
Not then. I noticed that after I got back from Vietnam and was stationed at Fort Rucker.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right, but at this point it’s just all helicopters?”
All concentrated on learning to fly helicopters and being in the military.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now once you complete the Chinook training, do you get some time off
before you go to Vietnam, or…?” (22:00)
I had a month of leave before I left for Vietnam.
Interviewer: “Okay. Did you just go back home at that point?”
Mm-hmm. Went back home to Iowa.
Interviewer: “All right. Now how did your family feel about your heading off to Vietnam?”
Well, when I signed up, I didn’t ask my parents, and thinking back, when my son was my age
when I signed up—Thinking about him doing that, I realized how much stress I created for my
parents. My dad—Of course, I’d already signed up, so there wasn’t anything that anybody could
do about it. But he was concerned. He said, “Don’t you know they’re shooting them—those
helicopters down?” And I said, “Yeah, I know, but if your time is up, your time is up.” That was
kind of my—I had a fatalistic attitude at that point, I guess.

�Meyer, J.P.
Interviewer: “All right, and as you’re preparing to go to Vietnam, how much did you know
about what was going on over there?”
During the month that I was home on leave, Khe Sanh was under siege, and I was glued to the
TV watching those events daily.
Interviewer: “Okay, because Khe Sanh was in 1968.”
But it was—Well, maybe it was ‘68 when I was—before I entered. That may have been before I
entered.
Interviewer: “Yeah. Yeah, so you’re aware of that, and then ‘69 there was Hamburger Hill
that summer and that sort of thing. But regardless, you’re watching—But you are. You’re
watching the news at that point.”
Yeah, realizing that I’m going to be over there in thirty days.
Interviewer: “All right. Now how do they physically get you to Vietnam?”
I got on a flight in Des Moines and flew to California—the Oakland Overseas Replacement
Station—and got on a Stretch 8. DC-8. And we flew to—It was either Okinawa or Guam. I think
it was Okinawa. To refuel. From California. (24:20) It was the first airplane ride I ever was on
that had a movie, and the movie was Support Your Local Sheriff! with James Garner. I still
remember that, and I’ve got that video at home. And we landed at—We landed in Saigon at Tan
Son Nhut Air Force Base, and—I don’t know—I guess my thought was when we got off the
airplane, there would be rockets landing and bullets flying. And it was just hot, and it stunk. And
then we went through Overseas Replacement training with 101st Airborne Division.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now did you do that down at Saigon, or did you get up to where the
101st was first?”
We did that in Saigon. They had a training location there. They called it SERTS. Screaming
Eagle Replacement Training.
Interviewer: “All right, and what did that actually consist of?”
Oh, indoctrination about the Viet Cong and the NVA. How they would set booby traps. I think
we actually went on a mini patrol while we were there. They had a—They had wooden bleachers
and had an instructor on a short stage out in front of us—probably twenty feet in front of us—
and he was talking about how the Vietnam would sneak up on you and throw satchel charges and
booby traps. (26:11) And then he kind of led up to it dramatically, and then he kicked a—In front
of him against a wooden—Like a 2x6 or something. We couldn’t see it from our side, but there
was a little detonator there. And he kicked that, and they would—They had grenade simulators,
and he’d explode those. And it just scared the bejesus out of us. Pretty sudden. And I actually
heard after I got—after I talked to some of the guys that I trained in helicopter training with—
that we had two students from my class that were sitting in the front row, and the Viet Cong had

�Meyer, J.P.
snuck in there the night before and put live grenades—What he would do is he’d take a fake
grenade, he’d pull the pin, and throw it out in front of—right in front of the students or the
troops. And they’d snuck in and put live grenades in his box. So he pulled a pin on a live grenade
and threw it out and killed one of my helicopter classmates. So that was the harsh reality of
Vietnam from the start.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right, so now once you go through that training, now what
happens?”
Well, we got together in a group, and we got our assignments. And when they called my name,
they said, “Meyer, you’re going up to Charlie Company 159th Aviation Battalion in I Corps.”
(28:16) And I said, “101st? They don’t have helicopters.” And there was a—There was a guy—a
group of guys that were going home, and somebody overheard me say that. He says, “Yes, they
do. I just came from there.” So I went up to Phu Bai and joined the Charlie Company. The 159th.
Interviewer: “Okay. How do they get you to Phu Bai?
As I recall, we got there in a C-130.
Interviewer: “Yeah, so military transport plane. Okay, and then what kind of reception do
you get when you join your unit?”
You get welcomed to the unit, and here’s your room. They put me in a room that was vacant, and
there was a set of fatigues in the closet. The fatigues were—had the name Dives on it, and I said,
“Who’s Dives?” And the guy that checked me in said, “You don’t have to worry about that.”
And he took the fatigues out. Well, Tom Dives had been killed in a midair collision just—I think
just a couple of weeks before I got there. So they moved me into his room because it was empty.
Interviewer: “So did you have private rooms in the barracks?”
We each had a roommate. We were two to a hooch we called it. The buildings were plywood.
There were, I think, four rooms on each side of each building, so there were sixteen pilots in one
building. And we had a total of thirty-two pilots as I recall, so we had two buildings in the—what
we called the officers’ area. (30:01) We had a little officers’ club and the two barracks, and then
our commander had his own barracks building.
Interviewer: “Okay, and so there’s four companies in the battalion. Is that right?”
There’s three—There’s four companies. There were three Chinook companies in the 159th
Battalion and a crane company that was located in Da Nang.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right, so—But your three companies were basically together?”
All at Phu Bai.
Interviewer: “Yeah, all at Phu Bai. Okay, and then how many aircraft—”

�Meyer, J.P.

I’m sorry. The Charlie Company was at Phu Bai. Alpha and Bravo Companies were at Camp
Eagle.
Interviewer: “Okay, so you were at the Phu Bai airport, and they were at Camp—Because
Camp Eagle is near Phu Bai, but it’s not the same.”
Correct. Yeah, not the same location.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right. All right, so you’ve got your own—Again, how many
aircraft did you have?”
Sixteen.
Interviewer: “Okay, so sixteen, and would you—And then, with the thirty-two pilots then,
if all sixteen were flying, all of you would be flying.”
Technically, we could man all the aircraft.
Interviewer: “Yeah, because you had to have a pilot and a copilot for each one.”
Yes.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now how quickly do you start flying?”
As I recall, we were flying within a week.
Interviewer: “And how do they work in the new guys?”
You flew with an experienced aircraft commander initially. You were called a peter pilot, and
you had to have a certain number of hours before you would qualify to be an aircraft
commander. I can’t remember what—I think it was a hundred. Can’t remember exactly what that
hour requirement was. But if you—We became short on aircraft commanders to man the aircraft
for the missions, so if you had a certain amount of experience and were considered safe to do so,
you were named first pilot. (32:09) So you flew—You were technically the aircraft commander,
but you weren’t logging aircraft commander time because you didn’t have enough time to do
that, so you were logging first pilot time with a copilot.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now when you’re starting out with the aircraft commander, they’re
going to gradually give you more responsibility where—so you’d start to do more of the
actual flying in that period. Now under normal circumstances, what does a copilot actually
do?”
Monitor the systems. Monitor the rotor RPM and the gauges and do a certain amount of flying.
And as you spent more time there, you flew more and more. You typically didn’t talk on the
radio. That was the aircraft commander’s job. We all had nicknames, and I got my nickname—it

�Meyer, J.P.
was Lurch—one day when my aircraft commander was busy talking to the crew and one of the
other aircraft was asking my aircraft commander a question or something about something. And
I answered on the radio, and apparently my voice was very deep. And the other aircraft
commander said, “Who is that? It sounds like Lurch.” And that’s how I got my nickname.
Interviewer: “And you’re referring to the character in The Addams Family TV series?”
Yes, yes.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now so when do you actually start flying in Vietnam? What
month was it when you were doing that?”
Well, I started flying in August of ‘69.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now was there a lot of stuff going on at that point, or were things
quieting down?” (34:11)
At that point in time, as I recall, we were doing a lot of missions out into the A Shau Valley, and
Firebase Rendezvous was the main firebase in the A Shau Valley that we resupplied. And then
we resupplied Birmingham and Berchtesgaden as I recall. There were two firebases before we
would get out to the A Shau.
Interviewer: “Yeah, because you have them in the chain of hills that separates the A Shau
from the coastal plain, and that’s where those bases were. But Rendezvous was in it. Now
was it dangerous to fly into the A Shau?”
It didn’t feel like it at the time honestly. There weren’t—When they sent Chinooks out on what
they considered dangerous missions, they would send two Cobra gunships with us, and I don’t
recall ever needing escort for that first six months I was there.
Interviewer: “Okay. Well, I think—So, well, August would be after Hamburger Hill when
a lot of the NVA had kind of pulled out or pulled back for the time being.”
Yeah, the A Shau was—After Hamburger Hill, the A Shau seemed pretty quiet.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now was there a point when the monsoon sets in and they have to pull
out of there?”
Yes, I think that they pulled out in late ‘69. I think we pulled everything out of the A Shau
Valley and operated pretty much along the coastal mountains for the monsoon season. (36:00)
Interviewer: “Okay. Now how much trouble does the weather create for a Chinook, or are
there conditions where you can’t operate?”
Well, it was a fully instrumented helicopter, and we flew in the weather in Vietnam in the
Chinook mostly to drop flares for the infantry at night. I remember one particular night where it

�Meyer, J.P.
was low clouds, drizzly, and rainy that we had a flare mission, and I took off out of Liftmaster
and was in the clouds within five or six hundred feet and pretty much spent the whole time in the
clouds flying. And there was a radar controller that would guide us out to the drop zone, and then
we’d set up a racetrack pattern and drop. And then the infantry radio man on the ground would
adjust that drop zone based on where the light was within—One of the things that really was
striking was the first time I went on a flare mission at night in the clouds, we dropped the flares,
and when the flare ignited, the flare would drop. And a parachute would come out, and then it
would float down and provide I don’t know how many thousand candlepower of light in each
one. The whole cockpit lit up. The clouds lit up like it was daytime. And then they’d go out, and
it’d be dark again. And we’d stay up there—Oh, I don’t know how many flare—We had a crate
in the back with all the flares in it, and we’d stay up there until the flares were gone and then go
back.
Interviewer: “Okay, and then what kinds of supplies would you carry?”
We carried mostly ammunition, food and water, and fuel in sling loads. Most of our flights were
sling loads. (38:04)
Interviewer: “So they’re hanging below the aircraft rather than inside it.”
Correct. In nets. And then when an artillery battery would move, we would move them. We’d go
up to the hill where they’re located, pick the tubes up, take them to the new location, and drop
them off. And we called it an arty move, and most of our unit—If we were assigned an arty
move, most of our unit would work on that one mission together until the entire battery was
moved. And then we’d go off and do other missions.
Interviewer: “All right. Was there cargo that was harder to transport than others?”
It was usually based on weight. A 155 Howitzer is a lot heavier than a 105. Some of our other
missions would involve going and getting—recovering down helicopters, and the Cobra was a
very heavy helicopter. We had to be quite low on fuel to pick up a Cobra. I remember distinctly a
Cobra that was shot down and sitting on a sandbar in a river with high ridgelines on each side.
And we were resupplying a firebase and flying over that site, and there was a lot of talk on the
radio about, “How are we going to get that Cobra out of there?” And I was flying—Some of the
Chinooks were more powerful than others, I guess. I’m not sure why, but we had—And they—
And our—Some of our aircraft had been upgraded to what were called Super C’s where they had
bigger engines, and I was flying a Super C that day. And I told everybody on the radio—I said,
“I think I’ve got—I’m down to a fuel load where I think I can pick that Cobra up.” I said, “I’m
going to go down and give it a try.” So I went down, and the riggers were down there. (40:00)
And I went down and hovered over the Cobra and picked it up. And I got it off the ground, and I
got it off high enough. But the crew chief thought it was safe to go, so we took off. And I took
off down the river to gain airspeed, and I started climbing. And I climbed, and I climbed, and I
climbed. And I’m looking up at these ridgelines like, “Golly, we’ve got a ways to go yet.” And
then you’re thinking about, “I wonder how many NVA can see us flying slowly, climbing with
this Cobra slung underneath us.” But we retrieved it, and it was one of those memorable
moments in flying in Vietnam because when we got back to Camp Evans with the Cobra—And

�Meyer, J.P.
we had—We must’ve had a hundred foot sling on it. So we’re hovering a hundred feet in the air,
setting this thing down very gently, and set it down and release the sling. And the maintenance
and the pilots from the Cobra company were down there, and they were just cheering and waving
because we brought their Cobra back to them.
Interviewer: “All right. Now you said that the first several months you’re there were fairly
quiet in terms of having to deal with enemy. Do things get more intense later on?”
One thing I—Things seemed to escalate slowly during the monsoon season. One thing that—So
the things we were worried about in the monsoon season were getting up to the firebases in the
clouds. We had guys that actually hovered up the side of mountains to get up to firebases to
resupply. We had other guys who got to the firebase with the low clouds, but when they got right
over the firebase went into the clouds. And that’s a pretty urgent situation because you really
can’t start letting down because you don’t know what you’re letting down into. (42:06) So you
have to take off—You have to accelerate in the clouds and come back around and get radar
vectors or whatever you might get to get out of the clouds and then try again to get back up to the
firebase. But as long as you maintained visual with the ground or basically the trees out in front
of you, you could actually hover up the side of a mountain. If you had enough clearance so that
your sling load didn’t drag through the trees, you could get up to the firebase and resupply them
because we’re the only—We were their only lifeline for food, water, ammunition. The other
thing that was happening occasionally—and I only know of a couple instances—was that the
NVA would get on the radio, and they would intercept you on the radio assuming you—They
would imitate the ground control—the GCA approach controller—and they’d start radar
vectoring you. And they actually radar vectored a Cobra into the mountains on one occasion.
And I was out there flying on a flare mission one night, and we were being vectored back to Phu
Bai. And the controller had us going west for some reason, and I told my copilot. I said, “If we
go west for one more minute—” I said, “We’re turning around and heading for the coast and
letting down under the water.” Because I wasn’t sure who I was talking to, and then he turned us
back. And it was actually one of our guys, and he vectored us back into Phu Bai. But that’s—As
I recall, that’s about the time that things started to change in terms of hostile activity in I Corps
for us.
Interviewer: “Okay, and now for the ground units and so forth, I mean, there up until
about March of 1970, they’re mostly kind of in the lowlands or in the foothills and not
going farther inland too much. There were some missions up to the DMZ and things like
that. Now did you also support like the ARVN 1st Division or the Marines?” (44:24)
We did. We’d haul—When we hauled the ARVNs—Some of those flights were interesting
because they would take animals with them. I know we had one load where we were carrying
ammo for them, and they had ducks in the net. And the—When they—Ammo crates—We’d pick
the load up in the net, and that pushed the ammo crates together. And some of the ducks were
down in between the crates and, of course, got smashed. They probably ate them first when they
got to the firebase. And I had a load of ARVNs that I picked up inside the aircraft one day, and
we took off. And we’re headed out to a firebase, and I look down at the—The Chinook had a
little—The cockpit was separate from the back, and there was a little companionway we called it
that you went through to get into the seat. And I look down, and there was a pig standing in the

�Meyer, J.P.
companionway. And I said over the intercom—I says, “Chief, get that damn pig out of the
cockpit, will you?” He was just standing there looking at the instruments.
Interviewer: “Yeah, well, soldiers brought their own food with them.”
Yeah.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now in March of 1970, the 101st makes their first effort to
set up what would become Firebase Ripcord, and that mission aborted. And then they try a
second one the first of April, and then eventually the middle of April they start. Now how
much were you involved with that stuff?” (46:05)
I remember the insert into Ripcord vaguely. It was just another firebase insert. We’d take a dozer
up there. We carried what was called a mini dozer. It was a very heavy load. We would take the
body of the dozer up there, and then we would take the tracks and the blades separately. And
then the troops would assemble the dozer up on the hill, and then they would use the bulldozer to
doze off the top of the hill and create the setting or the ground for the firebase. And then we’d
pull the dozer off and bring in the artillery and all their supplies and do an arty move. And then it
was—After that, up until it was evacuated, it was a matter of resupplying Ripcord, and initially
we could fly in there, and they—Ripcord was a two-tiered firebase. They had an upper on the hill
where the guns were, and they had a lower area that was called a log pad. And the log pad was
just to the north, northeast of the hill proper, and that’s where we’d drop our loads. And then
they had a little trail between the two where they’d take their supplies up to the hill. So we would
come in in the lower log pad, and it was just a routine resupply for the first, I guess, couple of
months that we were resupplying Ripcord. And then it got hot.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now before it got hot at Ripcord, had you had other situations or
places where you were taking enemy fire or getting shot at?”
I got shot at four times that I know of in Vietnam. (48:00) We were on a routine supply back in
the fall of ‘69 out to Rendezvous in the A Shau Valley, and the crew chief came up in the cockpit
one day with a AK-47 round in his hand. And we looked at it and said, “Where’d you get that?”
And he said, “I looked up—” And he said, “There was a hole in the soundproofing.” He said, “It
must have come through the cargo hold.” And it was lodged in the soundproofing overhead, and
he took it out. And then the second time I got shot at, I was on a flare mission over the A Shau.
We were dropping flares over Firebase Henderson, I believe, on the east side of the A Shau
Valley, and when we briefed for the mission, part of the briefing indicated that there was a 37
mm in aircraft sight on the west side of the valley across from Henderson. And we were at
eleven thousand feet with the lights out, and we’d been up there dropping flares for probably
forty to forty-five minutes. And the crew chief or my right door gunner—As I was turning in the
racetrack pattern right after a drop, he said, “We’re taking fire. We’re taking—” And he got real
excited. He said, “We’re taking fire, sir. We’re taking fire. It’s coming up through the rotor
system.” And I started jinking—you know, getting away—to the left. And I said, “Okay, they
know we’re up here.” I said, “We’re going to depart and let the C-130 come in and drop from
high altitude.” And the pathfinder on the ground was just begging for—He says, “We’ve got to
have light. We’re in hand-to-hand combat down here, and we don’t know the good guys from the

�Meyer, J.P.
bad guys. And we’re trying to clear these bunkers.” And I—I said, “Okay.” I said, “They didn’t
get that close.” (50:00) So I turned around, and I went back in. And about my third pass, I saw—
It was flak in front of flashbulbs just like getting your picture taken, and it was level at our
altitude. And I turned, made a sharp bank, and got out. I said, “All right, we’ve got to leave now.
We’re going to get hit.” So we had to leave the area. That was the second time I got shot at. The
third time I got shot at was on what was known as Operation Lifesaver. The general—
commanding general—apparently wanted an emergency landing zone in every thousand meter
grid square in I Corps that were in our area of operation. So our mission was to pick up combat
engineers and take them out to an area that had been selected as an emergency landing zone on a
hilltop and drop them off in the morning. They would clear trees, blow stumps, and create a
landing zone big enough ideally for at least a Huey, and then we’d go pick them up in the
afternoon. Sometimes when we dropped them off, we could get the back wheels on the ground
and hover the front end, and then they could lower the ramp and just get off in the LZ. Other
times we had a seventy foot cable ladder that they would go down off the ramp. Well, in this
case, we couldn’t land. They had to go down the cable ladder. And when we were on our way
out there, the pathfinder who—They put a security force on the ground before we would go in.
The pathfinder asked—He says, “Where are you guys?” I said, “Well, we’re en route. We’re
about five minutes out.” (52:02) And we were pretty high to stay out of small arms range. We
were probably flying at four or five thousand feet, and I asked him—I said, “Is the area cold?”
“Yep,” he said. “The infantry got on the ground. Not a shot fired.” I said, “Okay.” And I looked
over to my copilot. I said, “Jeff, they’re going to get somebody killed in this mission one of these
days.” And so I was the company instructor pilot by that time, and I was giving—My copilot was
Jeff Brockmeyer, and he was upgrading to aircraft commander. So I was giving him an aircraft
commander check, and I told him when we started—I said, “Jeff, I know you know how to fly
the aircraft.” I said, “You run the mission. I’ll fly the aircraft. If you have any questions, just ask
me.” So I was flying, and I came into the LZ at a high hover. And the—I dropped off the sling
load, and the sling load was dynamite, gasoline, chainsaws. To clear the area. And right after we
dropped off the sling load, all hell broke loose. I heard a lot of popping. It sounded like—What I
recall—The sound of being on a basic training firing range with all the—Everybody shooting.
And everything happened very fast, and about that time a round went through the cockpit,
plexiglass flying. And Jeff, my copilot, threw his hands up in his face. I thought he was hit, and
the crew chief said, “We’ve got people hit back here. We’ve got oil all over the place.” Well, I
instinctively—When that happened, they hadn’t put out the ladder yet. Thank goodness. And
there was nobody—So there was nobody on the ladder. But I instinctively pulled off the hill,
started going down the ridgeline down towards the valley, and our caution panel lit up like a
Christmas tree. (54:06) And I saw the oil transmission pressure caution light come on, so—And
Jeff was talking to the Cobra gunship pilots on the radio, and I was—I saw the transmission oil
pressure light, so I—There’s five transmissions in a Chinook, and there’s a selector that will tell
you what the pressure is in each one individually. When I got to the main transmission, the
pressure gauge went all the way to zero, and I said, “Jeff, they’ve got the C-Box. We’re going to
have to set it down.” And I’m going down there towards the—I’m looking for a place to go, and
I’m looking down in the river bottom, and there’s no place to go down there. And about that time
Jeff was talking on the radio, and he switched over to intercom. Apparently, the Cobra pilots
were looking at me—at the angle that we were going and saying, “Are you going to make it? Are
you going to make it?” And Jeff says, “Are we going to make it?” And I said, “Hell yes, we’re
going to make it.” And I pulled back on the cyclic and did what we call a cyclic climb and

�Meyer, J.P.
pitched the nose up, and now I’m looking at the next ridgeline. And there’s a break in the trees. I
said, “We’re going in right up there.” (56:01) I said, “Get the 60s off the mounts, put them at two
and ten o’clock position, get somebody off the tail.” And I said, “We’re going in up there, and I
don’t know what we’re going into. Get ready to duke it out with whoever’s there because we’ve
got to land.” So I got up, coasted to a stop, and that was ironically a previous Operation
Lifesaver landing zone. And it wasn’t quite at the top of the hill, so I set the Chinook down. And
it started to roll, and I picked it back up. And I hovered up the hill a little ways, and there was
a—about a two foot or three foot tree stump. And I planted the front end on the tree stump and
let it—And slowly let it down and it settle, and everything was stable. And we just pulled
everything to stop, and, you know, we’ve got guys screaming in the back. We had sixteen people
on that aircraft. Five crew members and eleven combat engineers. Out of the eleven combat
engineers, nine of them were shot. My left door gunner had a round in the hip, and the Huey
came in and landed behind us and took nine out of the eleven—We had two wounded guys that
stayed on the hill because the Huey couldn’t take everybody, but he took the most critical ones.
Two of those combat engineers ended up dying as I was told later, and they had a ready reaction
force that would come out and rescue downed helicopter crews. And they activated the ready—
the rescue force, and we could hear the Hueys orbiting way off in the distance. You can hear a
Huey from a long ways, and, you know, my thought was, “Why aren’t they coming to get us?”
(58:00) Well, we weren’t on the hill more than about five minutes after the Huey had come in
and took our wounded guys, and we heard this—It was an artillery shell coming in, and it
sounded just like in the movies. Comes whistling in, and there’s a big explosion. And the ground
shakes, and I asked my—One of our door gunners had been in infantry troop. He—And I said,
“What the hell was that?” He said, “That’s our artillery.” There was a fire mission going from
somewhere east of us. They were firing at what I didn’t know at the time. But was a North
Vietnamese regimental base camp area. Was based at the base of this hill not far from Ripcord.
So finally the Hueys came in. The Cobras stayed with us. We couldn’t talk to them because they
shot out all our radios, and our survival radio didn’t work. But they kept making—They weren’t
shooting, but they were making gun runs. And they stayed with us, and the Huey finally came in.
And the infantry was very impressive. I’ll never forget that. They came in, and they got off the
Huey. They huddled up just like a football team, and the lieutenant said, “All right, you guys
here, you guys there.” And he designed the perimeter. He said—And it’s just like, “Okay.
Break.” And they all spread out and did their thing, and then he came up to me. And he said,
“Who’s the aircraft commander?” I said, “I am.” He said, “Well, sir, you picked an interesting
place to go down.” I said, “Why is that?” He said—He pulled out his map. He said, “We’re on
the top of this hill right here.” He said, “All around the base of this hill is a North Vietnamese
regimental base camp area.” And I said, “That’s very interesting. How soon are we going to get
off this hill?” So the Huey that had taken the wounded guys to the hospital came back and picked
us up. (1:00:02) We were on the hill for an hour and ten minutes. The—We had radioed back
once the infantry got on the ground. We had radioed back to the—our company. The crew chief
went up and inspected the damage and thought if we—They hit the return oil line from the main
transmission, and he said, “If you send the line out in some oil, we’ll—We can fix it right here
and fly it out of here.” And our commander radioed back. He said, “No, you guys have had
enough for one day. We’re getting you off the hill.” So they evacuated us, and Jeff and I were
sitting in my hooch having a beer at about three in the afternoon. And somebody came racing in
and said, “502 was shot down, and it crashed.” I said, “No, it didn’t.” I said, “We were in it. It’s
just—It’s sitting out there.” “No, no. The maintenance crew went out, and they recovered the

�Meyer, J.P.
aircraft. And they crashed.” So the maintenance—So what happened was the commander sent
two maintenance pilots and two maintenance technicians out to the hill with a line and the oil,
and they fixed it. And they cranked it up and did a hover check. Everything checked out, so they
took off and headed direct for home. And I had told Jeff—I said, “If we get this thing fixed—” I
said, “We’re going from here to Ripcord because it’s only about three or four minutes. And set it
down and check it out.” Well, they took off, climbed altitude, and headed for Phu Bai. After they
were at altitude, the oil that had leaked out of the transmission had streamed down by the
engines, and it caught fire. So the whole back end of the aircraft was on fire, and they made an
emergency landing. They crash-landed on a sandbar at a place called Three Forks, which is south
of Ripcord a ways, and the—They hit the sandbar so hard that the front—the cockpit broke off at
the cockpit slice and went into the river. (1:02:15) Underwater with the two pilots in it. The two
maintenance technicians were thrown out the opening that was created when the cockpit was
gone, and they were in the river. They had made a mayday call when they went down, and
another Chinook went in and picked them up. They all survived and relatively uninjured. They
had some burns because by the time they got on the ground, the pilots told me that the flames
were lapping up in the cockpit. But they survived. But the aircraft never made it back. It burned
right on the sandbar. That was the third time I got shot at. The fourth time I got shot at was—I
was actually giving a new pilot an in-country orientation ride. So when a new pilot came in,
you’d get in the aircraft with somebody—usually the company instructor pilot—and then just
basically tour the area. “Here’s our area of operation.” And we were up west of Quảng Trị by a
place called Firebase—I’m blanking on the name, but we were just south of the DMZ, and I said,
“Well, I’ll show you a little further west.” Which we really didn’t have anybody out there, but I
was basically pointed towards Khe Sanh. And I made a turn to go back to the south, and I could
hear the—We started taking fire. I could hear bullets. Well, there was—Apparently, there was a
.50 caliber machine gun in a culvert in one area, and he would roll it out and shoot at helicopters
and then roll it back into the culvert. (1:04:00) And Cobras finally got him, but he shot at us.
And you could hear rounds going by the aircraft, and we exited the area. Fortunately, they didn’t
hit us.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now were you flying to Ripcord in July of 1970 when things got
interesting?”
Yes.
Interviewer: “So talk about that phase.”
That was pretty exciting. My technique for getting in and out of Ripcord when it was really
under siege and being mortared regularly was to fly directly at the mountain with a sling load, do
a cyclic climb, and time it so that you slowed down and basically came to a stop right over the
lower log pad. And set your load down, release it, and get out. And it wasn’t uncommon for us to
be leaving the firebase and hearing mortars land behind us because when we hovered in to drop
off a load, we created a lot of dust. And the NVA could see the dust. They’d put the mortars in
the tubes, and we’d be gone by the time the mortars came down and hit the firebase. But at least
three or four times when I brought loads in there, it was—I could hear mortars landing.

�Meyer, J.P.
Interviewer: “Okay. Did you always put the loads on the log pads, or did you ever put them
anywhere else on the base?”
No, we were told back during that time, “If you put your nose up on top of the hill, you’re
probably going to get shot.” So we stayed below the—Basically use the top of the hill to screen
us from small arms fire on the lower log pad.
Interviewer: “All right, but now eventually a Chinook does get shot down over Ripcord,
and they’re over the artillery positions at the time they’re doing that. And I was told they
were actually trying to put some of the artillery rounds closer to where the guns were.”
That must’ve been their—What they were probably doing is trying to put the load right next to
the guns, so that they didn’t have to go down to the lower log pad...
Interviewer: “Right. On top of the ammo bunker pretty much.”
... and haul them up there. So they were going to put them right in the ammo bunker, and they
got shot. (1:06:06) And the Chinook crashed on top of the ammo bunker and basically blew the
entire supply of ammunition up over—It cooked off over time, and I talked to one of the infantry
lieutenants who was quite a ways from Ripcord. And he said there was shrapnel and debris
landing in the trees around them as that was cooking off. I personally was actually in Saigon that
day picking up a brand new Chinook with one of our maintenance pilots. We were on our way
back, and when we got back late in the afternoon, the routine for bringing in a new aircraft was
to a fly-by over the company area, a high speed pass, and then come in and land. Well, we made
a high speed pass over the company, and I look down. And almost all the Chinooks were gone,
and I called the company ops. I said, “What’s going on?” Guy said—He said, “Well, they’re—
Ripcord—” He told me that they’d had a—The ammo supply at Ripcord was blown up, and
they’re up there doing an attack emergency resupply. So they resupplied them at that point, but
that’s when things got really hot.
Interviewer: “Okay, and then did you go to Ripcord again before the day they evacuated?”
I went in and out of there several times before—Yeah, while it was—I call it—under siege, I
guess.
Interviewer: “Yeah, well, it was under siege.”
It was under siege because we were the only resupply line they had. The Hueys could get in there
and haul troops in, but they couldn’t haul very much ammo. And they didn’t haul ammo.
Interviewer: “Yeah, and at this point, I mean, the 105 battery is not operational, so there’s
just the 155s up there. But were you bringing out 105 ammunition in expectation that they
would put another battery there?”

�Meyer, J.P.
I honestly don’t know. We were carrying high explosive artillery rounds. (1:08:00) We usually
would call in to the pathfinder and say, “We’ve got a load of 105 HE.” But I don’t recall what I
was calling in at the time.
Interviewer: “Yeah, because there was thought of bringing in another battery to replace
the one that had been knocked out.”
Because the guns were destroyed.
Interviewer: “Yeah, the—Yeah. So anyway—Okay, and then now we get to—sort of the
23rd of July when they actually evacuate the firebase. And what do you remember about
that day?”
We had a briefing the night before in our ops. They called all the pilots in and briefed us and told
us what we were going to be doing the next day. And one of the things they said was—I don’t
actually—I assume they did, but they told us that the first load going in there was going to be a
bulldozer. And if you got shot down on the hill, get out of the aircraft because they’re going to
bulldoze it off the side of the hill. And then they asked for volunteers, and I was sitting in the
back. And, of course, my hand went up, and the ops officer said, “Meyer, put your hand down.
You’re going home.” I was—The next day was my last flying day in Vietnam. So they took
volunteers—crews—and then the ops officer came up to me afterwards. And he said, “We’re
going to need you to be on standby.” So he said I’m—“We’re going to have you in the revetment
with the APU running, listening to the radios, and if we call you, you’re going to need launch.”
So we did just that. They—Our company launched, and the other companies launched and went
out and extracted the tubes off of Ripcord. And we were listening to it on the radio, and about—
There was a lot of aircraft getting hit going in and out of there. Some of them disabled and had to
go back and land, and towards the end of the mission, they—The ops officer called and said,
“We need you to launch.” And I thought, “God, this isn’t going to be good.” I don’t know. I just
had the sense that if I go up there today, I’m not coming back. (1:10:01) So we cranked up,
taxied out to the end of the take-off—where the take-off pad was—and we were ready to take
off. Called for clearance to take off, and the ops officer called. And he said, “They’re done. Taxi
back in and shut it down.” That was quite a relief. So I wasn’t actually in on the extraction.
Interviewer: “Okay, and you were in all of the stuff before it.”
Yeah.
Interviewer: “Yeah. All right. Okay, so at this point now do they pack you up and send you
back to the States, or what do you do next?”
We packed up, had a little going away party in the officers’ club, packed all my stuff, got on a C130 at Phu Bai, and flew down to…
Interviewer: “Cam Ranh Bay?”

�Meyer, J.P.
Cam Ranh Bay, Cam Ranh Bay. And spent the night there. A group of us commandeered a deuce
and a half and went down to one of the—actually one of the local off base restaurants and had
Vietnamese food. And then left on a Freedom Bird as they called them the next day.
Interviewer: “Okay. Some—To kind of back up a little bit to sort of life in Vietnam, what
was daily life like when you weren’t flying?”
We played a lot of poker, drank a lot of beer. People asked me what I did in Vietnam. I said,
“Well, I flew all day one day, and I drank all day the next.” I didn’t actually do that, but…
Interviewer: “Yeah. Did they—Did you ever go off base?”
I went off base one time into Huế on a tour. We toured Huế—The citadel I guess they called it.
That was an interesting tour to—The Tet Offensive had done a lot of damage, and there was
just—The walls were marked with bullet—Yeah, bullet marks all over the place, and—But that’s
the only time I recall—other than R&amp;R—getting off base. (1:12:22)
Interviewer: “Okay, and where did you go on R&amp;R?”
I went to Hawaii.
Interviewer: “Okay, so were you married at the time, or…?”
I was married. Had my oldest son. I left for Vietnam one or two days before his first birthday.
That was pretty hard. And then my wife was pregnant when I left, and my second son was
born—I left in—It was—I entered Vietnam in August. He was born in November. I didn’t see
him until he was—What was he? Nine months old. But I went on R&amp;R and met my wife in
Hawaii, spent a week there, and then went back to Vietnam.
Interviewer: “Okay, so what’s it like having to go back to Vietnam?”
Pretty depressing. When you’re back out of the—out of the combat environment, out of the
stress, out of the risk, you feel safe, and it was relaxing.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now there’s lots of kind of stereotypes about Vietnam and life in
Vietnam and that kind of thing, and one of them is—particularly on the bases—there were
a lot of issues with drug use and race relations and so forth. Did you observe any of that
yourself, or…?”
Not in our company. We had—I think we had two different—They called them shakedown
inspections where the officers would go down and go through the enlisted barracks looking for
drugs. And I remember one of those for sure. I can’t remember, but I think we might have done
that a second time. But we didn’t find anything. That was the only experience with that concept
the whole time I was there. (1:14:14)

�Meyer, J.P.
Interviewer: “And, I guess—And so your company was kind of in its own sort of selfcontained area pretty much. Yeah, so you’re not really seeing sort of large numbers of
other base personnel and things like that. Did you have any Vietnamese civilians working
on the base?”
We had—The maids would come in and clean our rooms, make our beds, and do laundry for us.
But they were there only during the day. They were moved off base at nighttime, I think.
Apparently, they caught one guy walking off distances in our company area and got him off the
base. We got rocketed when I first got to Vietnam. We got rocketed at night every so often, and I
think what they were aiming for—There was an antenna field just to the north of where we were
living, and I think they were aiming for that antenna field. But you could hear the rockets come
in, and you’d scramble to get in the bunker. We’d go in the bunker, and it was kind of
frightening because you never knew while you were running to the bunker if the next rocket was
going to land right next to you. We did have a rocket hit one of our bunkers, and we had some
pilots in there. They weren’t injured, but it was—It was a good thing they were in the bunker.
Interviewer: “Right. Now did that rocketing—Did that stop at a certain point?”
Seems to me that it stopped about the time the monsoon season started. We would sit out on
our—We had a deck off the back of our officers’ club on the south side of the building, and we
would sit out there at night and watch Cobras working in the lowlands. (1:16:09) You could see
their tracers coming down., and you could see—They called them Dusters. I don’t know whether
they were Quad-50s or what they were, but we called them Dusters. And you could see their
tracers going out, firing, but that—a lot of that activity seemed to stop about the time the
monsoon season started. And during the monsoon season, there were times when we didn’t fly
for up to a week at a time, and we had one—We had one storm that dropped twenty-three inches
of rain in twenty-four hours.
Interviewer: “Okay, so once you get back from Vietnam, what do you do next?”
I—When I was in—I got my assignment out of Vietnam. I was assigned to Fort Benning,
Georgia because I had taken a direct commission. The army was short on commissioned officers.
They were offering direct commissions if you had—if you were a chief warrant officer grade 2,
which I was, and if you had a certain number of semester hours of college credit. So I qualified,
and so the—I don’t know. We were kind of ornery as warrant officers, and I was actually going
on R&amp;R when that notice came out. And my roommate—who was the admin officer—called me,
and he—And I was in the officers’ club at the crane unit in Da Nang waiting for my flight to
Hawaii the next day, and he—I’m in the officers’ club, and I get a phone call. And I went, “Uhoh. Somebody died or something.” Because you never got a phone call in Vietnam. (1:18:06)
And it was my roommate, and he told me that the army was offering direct commissions if you
had the qualifications. And he said—I think there were—I don’t know—four or five or six of us
that qualified, and I said, “What are they offering?” He says, “Second lieutenant.” I said, “What
branch?” He said, “Infantry, artillery, armor, and signal.” I said, “So what do you think we ought
to do?” He says, “Well, we’re all going to—We’re all going to apply.” He said, “We can always
turn it down if it comes—when it comes back, so we’re all going to apply.” I said—He said, “Do
you want to apply?” I said, “Well, I guess so.” He said, “What branch?” I said, “Signal.” He said,

�Meyer, J.P.
“Okay.” I said, “What do we have to do?” He said, “We’ve got to sign a postcard and send it
back to DA.” Department Of the Army. I said, “Okay, well, sign a postcard for me and send it
back.” So we did. When I got back from R&amp;R, on the bulletin board in the officers’ club—It—
Like I said, we were kind of ornery. Somebody—One of the warrant officers had put up a little
notice: “Send in your picture postcard and ten C-ration box tops for direct commission to second
lieutenant.” And so in July—I was due to go home in August. In July, the commissions came
down, and I was being commissioned second lieutenant infantry. So I decided since I was so
close to going home—And one of the questions I had from my admin officer—my roommate—
was, “Hey, they’re going to commission us to second lieutenants and send us to the field as
grunts.” (1:20:07) He said, “No, they can’t do that. We’re not qualified.” He said, “We’re going
to be pilots.” I said, “Okay.” So I took the direct commission. Well, because I was infantry, they
were going to send me to Fort Benning, Georgia. I don’t want to go to Fort Benning, Georgia. I
wanted to go to Fort Rucker and be a flight instructor. So I went to Fort Rucker. I actually got
my orders changed and went to Fort Rucker.
Interviewer: “How did you get your orders changed?”
I don’t recall exactly, but I’m sure I sent in a request. A Twix as we called them. It’s like a fax
nowadays. Sent a Twix back to DA, and they changed my orders. So I went to Fort Rucker from
Vietnam. I got back in—Would have been August because we were there exactly a year. And
was assigned to the Student Battalion in the administrative office. And basically my job—my
primary job—was to coordinate the graduation parties and to make sure that the colonels all got
seated by date of rank, and you didn’t seat one colonel whose wife didn’t like the other colonel’s
wife next to each other. And that was my job in the—I was in S1 I believe it’s called. So I was
there for six months. After I was there—They told me, “We’re going to put you in here for six
months, and then if you want to go fly, you can.” So once I was there for six months, I requested
reassignment to the—to Shell Army Heliport where we did instrument training in the TH-13, and
that’s what I did for the rest of my tour.
Interviewer: “Okay, so how long did you wind up doing that?”
From—Would have been early 1970 to 1972 when I got off active duty. (1:22:09)
Interviewer: “Well, it wouldn’t be early 1970 because—”
I’m sorry. Late 1970. Early 1971. Because I would have been in the Battalion for six months,
from—Yeah, you’re right. From August to six months later, which would have been early ‘71.
And then I went to Shell Field and was an instructor.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now at this point do you—What do you do next? I mean, do
you stay in the military in some fashion, or…?”
Let me answer a question you asked early on. When I was assigned to Shell, we lived on an
acreage that we found out in the country on a dirt road rented to us by a couple of bachelor
peanut farmers in a little farmhouse. Tiny house. You asked about—You were implying
discrimination. When we left—When I got reassigned after my tour was done, the landlord came

�Meyer, J.P.
to me and said, “Now, you know, if you’ve got any buddies that want to live out here in the quiet
country—” He said, “You let them know and steer them towards me, and we’ll rent them this
house when you leave.” And they said, “But, you know, we don’t want—” And he wouldn’t say,
“We don’t want any black people out here.” But he implied that. I said, “Yeah, I know what
you’re talking about.” I was from the Midwest, and we didn’t—There just wasn’t the prejudice
in the Midwest there was in the South. And so I said, “Yeah, I know what you mean.” And then I
had another experience. (1:24:04) We had a—One of our instructor pilots was African American
and a very nice gentleman, and I think—As I recall, his name was Danny Johnson. Had a nice
family. Good people. And he would call to rent. He was living on base. He wanted to live off
base. He would call to rent, and they’d say, “Oh, you bet. We’ve got this apartment. It’s great.
Come on out and take a look at it.” He said, “I’d go up and knock on the door, and they’d open
the door. And they said, ‘You know, we just rented that thirty minutes ago.’” He had a heck of a
time finding housing as a black person. So when we—I finished my tour. My family and I
moved back to Iowa, and I had wanted to go back to—Initially when I left high school, I enrolled
at South Dakota State in pre-pharmacy, and I wanted to finish pharmacy school. So I did two
things. I joined a Guard unit because I wanted to keep my military experience going, and there
happened to be a Chinook unit in Davenport, Iowa. So I joined the Chinook unit. And we lived
in Marshalltown, Iowa, and just a week or so after I got out—My dad was a farmer. He had a
heart attack. So we lived in Marshalltown, and I helped a neighbor of ours farm our farm for that
year while I went to junior college. And—a kind of a catch up year—I took courses that were
required for pharmacy school. And then I had—I was in the Iowa Army National Guard, and we
went to summer camp at Fort Ripley, Minnesota. (1:26:04) And I was—My job that summer at
Fort Ripley was to do instrument flight instruction in a Huey. So we basically would get in a
Huey—I’d get in a Huey with two students every morning, and we’d fly around Minnesota.
Well, on one of those days, I actually flew a Huey from Fort Ripley down to Brookings, South
Dakota and met with the dean of pharmacy, and I had been in school there before. And I told him
I wanted to come back and finish, and he said, “Well, if your grades are decent—” I didn’t have
a very good Grade Point Average when I left, and he said, “If your grades are decent—” He said,
“I’ll consider putting you in the class.” So when I finished summer camp, finished at
Marshalltown Community College with a 4.0 Grade Point Average, and called the dean, he said,
“I’ll put you in the class.” Because at the time, pharmacy school was two years of pre-pharmacy
and three years of pharmacy school. So I had finished my requirements for the first two years,
and he put me in the class for pharmacy school. So we moved from Marshalltown to Brookings,
South Dakota, and I finished pharmacy school and graduated in 1976.
Interviewer: “All right, and then you go to work as a pharmacist at that point?”
I did. We moved down to Vermillion, South Dakota where the medical school was because when
I was in pharmacy school my last—my next to last year—I was a second year pharmacy second
semester pharmacy student, and I took a course in pathology. And it was very interesting to me,
so I went to see the pathology professor and said, “You know, I might be interested in applying
to medical school.” (1:28:00) But I thought, “Well, it’s going to be a long shot because of my
Grade Point Average and my age.” I was twenty-seven or twenty-eight years old, and I sat there
and talked to him for half an hour. And age kept coming up, and he said probably some of the
best advice I ever got as a student. He said, “Well, Meyer, let me ask you. How old are you?” I
said—I think I was twenty-seven. He said, “All right, so you’ve got a year and a half of

�Meyer, J.P.
pharmacy school left. You’ll be twenty-eight, almost twenty-nine. Let’s say it takes you a couple
of years to get into medical school. You’ll be thirty-one. Four years of medical school, you’ll be
thirty-five. Two years of—A year of internship, thirty-six. Couple years of internal medicine
residency, thirty-eight. You’ll be thirty-eight years old. You could be a board-certified
internist—internal medicine specialist.” I said, “Oh my gosh, that’s eleven years from now.” He
leaned back in his chair, put his hands behind his head, and he said, “Let me ask you something,
Meyer.” I said, “Yeah, what’s that, Dr. Johnson?” “How old are you going to be in eleven years
from now if you don’t do it?” I said, “That’s a very good point, Dr. Johnson.” So I moved down
to—So the point is I moved to Vermillion. That’s where the medical school was. I didn’t have a
very good Grade Point Average although I did very well in pharmacy school. I maintained about
a 3.75. I went down and started applying to medical school, worked in a retail drugstore as a
pharmacist. One of our customers was the dean of admissions for the medical school. He knew
who I was. He knew what I was—I would go see him and talk to him about what I wanted to do.
And I took the Medical College Admission Test because it’d been so long since I had had
Biochemistry, for instance. My scores weren’t very good, so I took a prep course for the Medical
College Admission Test and increased my scores and kept applying to medical school (1:30:15)
I applied four years in a row. The third year—The second year I applied the dean told me—He
said, “You didn’t make the list.” But he said, “You moved up significantly in the applicant pool.”
Because of my better MCAT scores. So I said, “Well, I’m going to apply again.” And he said,
“I’d recommend you do so.” So I did. The third year I applied I was on the alternate list. I was
thirteenth alternate. I went to see the dean, and I said, “What are my chances?” He said, “Well—
” He said, “You’re on the alternate list.” But he said, “To be honest with you, we never take in
over seven alternates.” I said, “Well, all right, I’m on the alternate list. I think I’m going to apply
one more year.” And he said, “I would if I were you.” So, in the meantime—I applied that fourth
year—I was a registered pharmacist in a small town in South Dakota, not making very much
money, counting pills and typing labels. And I wanted to get out of the Army Guard and into the
Air Force Reserve, so I found an Air Force Reserve unit at Selfridge Air National Guard Base in
Michigan that was looking for pilots that had heavy helicopter time because they had H-3s. And
they took me on, so I moved to Michigan. And I actually worked full-time for the Air Force
Reserve for that year while I was waiting to get into medical school. I didn’t tell them I had
applied to medical school because I just thought, “Well, they don’t need to know that.” So I
worked out there, and they were wanting me to take a full-time job as a flight instructor.
(1:32:01) So I finally did. Chief of safety flight instructor in H-3. Well, they sent me off to—
Because I had transitioned from the Army Guard to the Air Force Reserve, they sent me to water
survival training, land survival training, and an aviation safety officer course, which was taught
at the Air Force Base outside of San Bernardino, California. So I went out there. I was out there.
It was my last week of class, and the phone rang. And again, that’s the only time my phone rang
ever in the BOQ I was staying in. And I answered it, and it was the secretary from the medical
school. And said, “We’re going to accept you to medical school. Where are you? We need to
send you some paperwork to have notarized and sent back to us.” So I signed it and sent it back,
accepted a position in—Medical school started in August of 1980, and for my training that I had
gone through in the Air Force Reserve, I was obligated until September of 1980. So I had a
problem. So I went back, and I talked to my boss. And I said, “Hey. I’m—Before I came out here
a long time ago, I applied to medical school, and I just found out last week I got accepted.” And
he says, “What are you going to do?” I said, “Well, I applied so many years in a row. I need to
do this.” So I sent a letter to AFRS headquarters requesting release from my obligation, and they

�Meyer, J.P.
denied it. In the meantime, I wanted to stay in the military, so I had found a position in the 185th
Tactical Fighter Group in Sioux City in the Iowa Air National Guard in the command post
because they—It required a rated officer. But you didn’t have to be A-7 qualified. We had A-7s
at the time. So I wrote a letter back, and I said, “Look. I’ve already got a position in an Iowa Air
National Guard unit, and I think the Air Force would be better off gaining a flight surgeon or a
physician flight surgeon as opposed to another pilot.” And they agreed with me, and they let me
out of my commitment. (1:34:03) So I moved back to Vermillion and started medical school in
19—in August of—Well, July of 1980.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right, and did you get through that successfully?”
I finished medical school in 1984. Stayed in the Guard the whole time. After medical school, I
moved to Michigan. I did an internship in Detroit, and then, during my internship, I applied to go
back on active duty in the Navy and the Air Force. And my goal in the Navy was to become
what was called a dual designator to fly as a pilot in Navy jets and be a flight surgeon at the same
time, and the Navy had that program. The Air Force didn’t. So as my internship went along, the
Navy didn’t get the paperwork done. The Air Force did. So I took the Air Force route and went
to flight surgeon training and was assigned to Vance Air Force Base in Enid, Oklahoma, and
after my internship—So we moved to Enid in—Well, it would’ve been July of 1984. I went on
active duty until—It was a three year commitment, so ‘84 to ‘87 I was on active duty in the Air
Force.
Interviewer: “Okay, and what did your job consist of?”
We had a clinic on the base. It was clinic medicine, and our job as flight surgeons was to take
care of the rated personnel. And the rated personnel consisted of student pilots, flight instructors,
and air traffic controllers. So we saw a young, healthy population. It wasn’t especially
challenging, so what I did was I took a job part-time in the local—one of the hospital’s local
emergency rooms as an emergency room physician. (1:36:00) So I moonlighted in the
emergency room while I was in the Air Force, and one of my objectives was to keep my skills up
because you do flight medicine for three years, and now, you know, taking care of a heart attack
is way back in the distance. So I was an emergency room physician. Well, when I finished the
Air Force obligation in ‘87, I—The local medical staff wanted me to take over the emergency
room at the other hospital in town, which was expanding and building a new emergency room
and building on to the hospital, so I agreed to do that. So I became a full-time emergency room
physician in Enid, and I transferred—Once I got off active duty, I rejoined the Iowa Air National
Guard as a flight surgeon in Sioux City. So I would attend drills in Sioux City, and I worked fulltime in Enid.
Interviewer: “And how would you get back and forth?”
I had my own airplane at the time, so I’d commute back and forth to—
Interviewer: “Long drive, not so long flight.”

�Meyer, J.P.
Correct, and actually there were times when the pilots from Sioux City—There was a low level
route that they would fly that went down into Kansas. Well, there was—Occasionally, they
would actually come down to Enid to the Air Force base and pick me up in an A-7, and we’d fly
the low level route back to Sioux City. And then Sunday afternoon be in a Guard drill. We’d
repeat the process, and they’d drop me off back in Enid, which was a lot of fun for me.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now you would have been in the Air National Guard in the
period of the Gulf War in ‘91. Did that have any ripple effects that got to your unit, or did
things just stay normal?”
We had—I don’t know if I’d call it a request or an offer for volunteers, and we did have some
people from our medical unit that volunteered for the Gulf War. And they were sent to—I know
one of our physicians was sent to Florida to backfill a physician’s position that was deployed to
the Gulf War. (1:38:10) So no one went to the Gulf, but they—We had a few people that went to
different places in the United States.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right, and then how long did you stay with the Air National
Guard?”
I was the—I started out as the chief flight surgeon in the 185th Tactical clinic, and then I became
the clinic commander. And then my next assignment was as the State Air Surgeon for the state of
Iowa. So I switched from going to Sioux City. I went to Des Moines for drill, and I was the State
Air Surgeon for the Iowa Air National Guard.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now when did you complete that assignment?”
When I retired in January of 2000.
Interviewer: “All right. Now you had been working in Enid, Oklahoma. You now live in
Grand Island, Nebraska. How did that come about?”
Well, I was working as the emergency room physician. I ran the emergency room, and I would
hire other physicians to be the emergency room physician when I was not there. And I had a
partner who was a medical school classmate of mine, and he and I basically took most of the
hours. And then we’d use residents from Oklahoma City to fill in the rest, and I did that until
1992. In late ‘91, the administrator at the hospital came down and was talking to me, and he said,
“You know, you’re one of two physicians on our medical staff who do not have post-graduate
medical education.” Basically, I’d had just an internship and experience. And he said, “And the
other one is retiring.” So I thought, “Well, all right. I probably need to go and do my specialty
training.” So my thought at the time—Because of my pharmacy background, I had—Really,
when I left medical school, I wanted to do anesthesia residency, and the internship I did was a
lead-in to that. And then, during my internship, I decided to change course and go to the—back
to the military for a while. (1:40:08) So I—My choices were to do anesthesiology or do
emergency medicine. The University of Oklahoma had an emergency medicine program. The
University of Kansas-Wichita had an anesthesiology program, and they were—Well, University
of Wichita was a little further than Oklahoma City from Enid but not much. So my thought at the

�Meyer, J.P.
time was, “Well, I’m already doing emergency medicine. I’m not sure I want to go and train for
two years to do something I’m already doing.” An my primary interest had always been
anesthesiology. So I applied to the University of Kansas and completed the residency program at
the University of Kansas-Wichita hospitals, and that program ran from 1992 to 1995. In 1995,
we moved to Woodward, Oklahoma—small town in western Oklahoma—and I was the only
anesthesiologist there. We had a nurse anesthesthetist who was a nurse that does anesthesia, and
we had—It was a fairly—We had a new, young—couple of new, young surgeons, and it was a
fairly busy place. But I grew up in the Midwest around cornfields and beanfields, and now I was
in an environment that looked like west Texas with wind and dry and tumbleweeds. And if you
didn’t ride horses or chase rattlesnakes, there wasn’t a whole lot to do in Woodward, Oklahoma,
so—And I was being—I was on call 24/7, and basically I got tired of the routine. And I told my
wife. I said, “I’m moving back to the Midwest. I hope you’re going with me.” So we moved to—
I had a classmate who was from Grand Island where I live now, and his father and his group—an
orthopedic group—had plans to build their own ambulatory surgery center. (1:42:19) So Dr.
Albers was calling me and telling me and encouraging me to come up. Well, I wanted to leave
Oklahoma, so I actually interviewed in—at a couple hospitals in Iowa and one in Topeka, and I
knew of the opportunity in Grand Island and ultimately decided to move to Grand Island. And
we’ve lived there ever since.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Okay, so to look back on the whole thing, I mean, obviously,
a lot—You know, the standard question that I ask is sort of how do you think your time in
the service affected you, or what did you take out of it? And you said a lot about that
already, but I just want to sort of—Just for yourself as a person, how do you think that this
affected you?”
Well, I got out of the service—You know, I guess I’d have to say I got out of the service what I
wanted. Flight training and experience. Because of the course I took in flight training, in the Air
Force Reserve, in medical school, in the flight surgeon—I mean, I had a terrific time in the
military. I had a lot of opportunity. I got to do a lot of really neat things. I rode in the backseat of
an A-7 all the way from Sioux City, Iowa to Sint-Truiden, Belgium on a deployment for summer
camp one year. I—It was just a really—It was a good time. Got a lot of flying experience and
enjoyed it. On the downside, it took a toll on my personal life. After Vietnam, I got divorced
from my boys’ mother and eventually was remarried to my current wife, and we raised her two
boys. My two boys finished college and are very successful. One’s an insurance executive. One
is actually a physician anesthesiologist pain doctor just like myself who now lives in Kansas.
(1:44:05) We raised my wife’s two boys. One of them finished his degree at the University of
Nebraska in psychology, and he actually works for us in the office. Does—Helps do billing. Her
oldest son just finished his undergraduate degree, and he’s applying to PA school. And then we
had a daughter who was born in 1996, and she now is at the—Oklahoma State University in their
professional pilot program. I steered her towards aviation, but I told her—I said, “I want you to
do this for you. I don’t—You know, don’t do it for me. Just—This is something you seem to
enjoy and be interested in.” And I said, “You can actually go to college and get a degree in
aviation and learn to fly.” And I said, “There’s a pilot shortage going on, and I think it’s going to
run for at least ten years. And the sky’s the limit.” I said, “You’ll—” And I—We talked when
she’s been home, and I said, “You know, Elizabeth, you have the world by the tail if you play
your cards right.” And she just smiles and says, “Yeah, I know.” So it took a toll on, you know,

�Meyer, J.P.
my personal life like I think it did for so many Vietnam vets. It’s just what life was like at the
time. It’s how things were. Lot of stress.
Interviewer: “All right, and you basically kind of over time learned to manage it or deal—
Or things quiet down over time, or…?”
Yeah, they have. I think there are times when a certain situation is difficult for me.
Interviewer: “Yeah, I mean, you saw a lot difficult stuff and went through some very, very
scary things, and those do leave a mark. But you’ve had certainly a very impressive career
and makes for very good stories, so thank you very much for taking the time to share
today.”
You’re welcome. (1:45:58)

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                <text>J.P. Meyer was born in Marshalltown, Iowa, in 1947. He graduated high school in 1965 and attended a pre-pharmacy program at South Dakota State University before dropping out in 1968 to enlist in the Army's warrant officer flight training program. Meyer underwent Basic Training at Fort Polk, Louisiana, and then transfered to Fort Wolters, Texas, for primary helicopter school as well as Fort Rucker, Alabama, for instrument and tactical training. When he was deployed to Vietnam, Meyer joined Charlie Company, 159th Aviation Battalion, 101st Airborne in Phu Bai. His unit participated in the establishment, siege, and eventual evacuation of Firebase Ripcord in 1970. After working an administration job back in the U.S. for the remainder of his tour, he joined a Chinook unit in the Iowa Army National Guard and later graduated with a pharmaceutical degree. From there, he continued his medical studies at vance Air Force Base in Enid, Oklahoma. Meyer eventually became the State Air Surgeon and began going to Des Moines, Iowa, for drill. Meyer finally completed this assignment when he retired in January of 2000.</text>
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