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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
World War II
Glenn Marks
(50:16)
Background Information (00:04)


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


Born July 27th 1925. (00:05)
Glenn served in Germany in the medical field. (00:20)
Glenn attempted to enlist in high school but was unable to because he was too short. (00:33)
His family did not have any electricity growing up. (1:10)
Glenn was in bible school practicing ministry when he was drafted in January of 1943. (1:42)

Basic training (2:03)
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

Attended basic at Camp Grant, Illinois. (2:05)
Boot camp was quite a shock for Glenn. He recalls scrubbing floors weekly. (2:45)
When the soldiers maid their beds the sheets had to be so tight that a quarter could be bounced
off of them. (3:25)
Because of his ability to type, Glenn was assigned to typist school to be a clerk. This lasted 8
weeks. (3:55)
After returning from typing school, Glenn took a 15 mile forced march. He thought he might die.
(4:16)
On June 6th 1944 Glenn graduated from his training. (5:03)
Though Glenn was trained as a typist, he was assigned to a front line medical unit due to
demand. (5:31)

Service (6:00)
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In November of 1944 Glenn was assigned too his unit in Europe. This group consisted of 3 men
and a jeep that was used to evacuate casualties from battle. (6:05)
While following a unit that was entering into Germany, the men crossed the Siegfried Line. The
unit had no casualties. But Glenn did see his first dead German. This image shook Glenn hard.
(7:15)
In another assignment, German soldiers began assembling in the yard of a castle that American
troops were staying in. the Germans later left trying to attack a gasoline dump rather than the
soldiers. (9:04)
The most intense combat that Glenn saw was when a unit was trying to capture a dam. The
Allied forces were afraid to cross the river fearing that the damn would be destroyed to flood
them out. (12:25)
Glenn followed an infantry unit in to the dam that was assigned to take the area regardless of
casualties. (14:32)
While picking up casualties from the dam the men ran into a road that had not been cleared of
mines. Glenn volunteered to walk ahead of the jeep so that the men could continue on their
mission. (15:20)
He also assisted the first units to cross the Rhine River. (17:15)

�End of Service (18:01)




Glenn, having a low point count, was kept to take care of wounded German soldiers while the
Allies were supervising German hospitals. (18:16)
Glenn thought the war was needed. He was glad to have served his part of the duty. (19:30)
Glenn was awarded the 3 battle stars, and the good conduct medal. (20:56)

Life in the Service (21:15)
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
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Glenn wrote letters home consistently. (21:20)
He believed the food was fairly good. Although he admits that his expectation of the food was
very low. On Thanksgiving Day the men were given turkey. (21:53)
While in Europe the men stayed mostly in tents. (22:38)
He was surprised at how supplied he and the unit he was with were. Even during the Battle of
the Bulge. (24:30)
When free time was available, Glenn would often go walk and explore the area. He did this
particularly often in England. (25:54)
Glenn was awarded a 7 day pass to Switzerland. Here the men saw sights and even went skiing.
(26:50)
He believed that his officers were fairly good. (28:54)
The second lieutenants were the funniest for the enlisted men because they had just got out of
officer’s school and were inexperienced. (29:56)
Glenn finished his service as a Technician 3rd Grade. (31:22)

Life after Service (31:45)

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
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


Glenn returned to the U.S. in February, March of 1946. The seas were very rough but Glenn did
not get sea sick. (32:05)
Glenn was discharged at Camp McCoy Wisconsin. (33:15)
After about a month Glenn worked for his father who was builder. He did return back to bible
school. (33:44)
He transferred to a school in Indiana. He was going to school on the GI bill. (35:33)
Glenn and his brother did start a business while he was in school. It was very successful. His
senior year of college he made more than the college president. (36:25)
He was convinced t stay a minister because of his fiancé and drop the business. (37:51)
Glen began getting evolved with making new churches. (38:26)

Effects of Service (39:58)





Because Glenn was not around the same men very often he failed to make any long lasting
friends from his service. (40:35)
He is a member of the VFW. (41:08)
Being in the military has made him understand the acceptance of the military. No man likes war
but having a military is necessary. (42:10)
He once marched in a Memorial Day parade. (44:19)

�



His time in the military taught Glenn about discipline. He does not believe it had any negative
effect on him as a person. (45:29)
Glenn traveled to Omaha Beach for the 50th anniversary of D-Day. Prior to this experience Glenn
was unable to talk about his military experience and rarely said anything about it. (47:02)
While in Europe for the 50th anniversary, Glenn stayed with several other men in a French home.
(49:18)

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Name of Interviewee: Harold Marks
Name of War: Korean War
Length of Interview: (00:46:00)

Pre-Enlistment
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Born in Phoenix, AZ in 1931 (2:00)
Left AZ in 1936, moved to Detroit, MI (2:20)
Graduated from Arthurville High School in Saginaw, MI in 1949 (2:35)
Graduated from University of Michigan in 1953 and joined the Army (2:50)
Was 10 when the attack on Pearl Harbor occurred (3:30)
Joined the Army on June 15th, 1953 (3:55)
Joined because it was during the Korean War (4:30)

Training
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Basic Training was at Fort Breckinridge, KY (1:20)
Army Intelligence school at Fort Devens, MA for six months (1:25)
Enlisted so he could pick his duty rather than be drafted (4:45)
Thought Army Intelligence would be more useful because he had gone to college (5:15)
Spent three days in Kentucky getting sworn in and eight weeks in Basic Training (6:00)
Lost 30 pounds during that time (6:20)
Was taught how to shoot, clean and take apart a rifle (6:40)
Spent six weeks at Fort Lewis waiting to be shipped out to Alaska (9:50)



Each class had 30 people, and whoever finished at the top would be sent to California to
learn Russian and interpret (7:30)
Finished at the top of his class, was sent instead to Alaska (7:45)

 Army Intelligence School


Enlistment
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Was in the Army from June of 1953-June of 1956 (0:45)
Honorably discharged from the Army in 1961 (0:50)
Discharged as a Specialist Third Class (1:12)
Spent a year in Alaska in Anchorage and Nome (1:35)
Spent last year at Army Security Agency Headquarters in Arlington Hall Station, VA
(1:45)
Was a Morse code intercept, and his unit monitored the coast of Siberia (8:15)
The UN was monitoring shipping movements from North Korea and the USSR (9:00)
Was married prior to being shipped to Alaska, and wife was not allowed to come with
because Alaska was considered overseas, as it was not yet a state (11:20)
Spent 6 months in Nome, then sent to St. Lawrence Island for 3 months(12:40)
Only 12 miles from the International Date Line (13:00)
Lived underground, no plumbing or electricity (13:50)

�
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


Was sent to ASA Headquarters in VA for one year, wife was allowed to come with
(15:00)
Always was a Morse code interceptor at each base (15:20)
Describes his job, copying each USSR Morse code, and their style (16:00)
Saw no combat during his time in the service (18:45)

 Memorable Events
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Interacted with the Eskimos on St. Lawrence Island during a whale hunt (19:10)
One guy lost his mind on the island, went outside in his fatigues and bare feet (22:45)
Everybody had latrine duty at least twice on the island (24:00)
Once had to do maneuvers in the middle of the night in winter on the island (26:50)
Stayed in touch with family usually by letters, but was able to call home on leave in
Fairbanks (28:10)
Had cooks on the island and only 200 men, so they were fed well (29:30)
Entertained themselves with cards, played ping pong on the island, and played basketball
in Nome (30:00)
Did not receive any leaves while in Alaska (33:20)
Officers were very casual in Alaska. Very informal atmosphere, but disciplined once
back in the United States (35:00)
Service ended on June 14 1959, but had to serve 5 years in the Army Reserves on
inactive status (37:00)
Life expectancy for Eskimos on the island was only about 30 years because of the bad
water (43:00)

Post-Enlistment
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Went back to college for a degree in accounting from Aquinas College (3:00)
Drove home to Grand Rapids after discharge (37:30)
Enjoyed his time in the Army, but enjoyed leaving (38:00)
Went into a family business a few days after coming home (38:30)
Made friends in the service, but did not keep up with them after he got out (39:00)
Proud to serve, but that may have changed if people were shooting at him (40:00)
Never attended a reunion for his unit (41:00)

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Nick Marrone
(00:53:15)
Before the war (00:00)
Born in Italy in a suburb of Benevento, near Naples (00:15)
At the age of five he was brought to the US, in 1929, and became a naturalized citizen (00:30)
He grew up in the Bronx (00:45)
He moved to the US for financial reasons (00:50)
Father worked in Canada (02:15)
Father was an automobile mechanic (4:00)
Competitive city jobs (04:50)
The War (05:00)
Received draft notice on December 31 (06:00)
He reported to camp Buckton, Alabama, and then went to Ft. McClellan for infantry basic
training (06:15)
His training was physically demanding (06:45)
Went to camp AP Hill in Fredericksburg, Virginia (07:15)
Before the war he was working for $1.70 an hour running machines (08:30)
He transferred to the air corps because of his mechanical background (09:00)
Training for the air corps was about two months long (10:15)
Briefly went to Salt Lake City and then to a Point of Embarkation in Antioch, California (10:30)
He was shipped to New Caledonia, and sailed in a convoy (10:57)
Arrived at Guadalcanal (11:54)
Arrived at Guadalcanal in 1943 (12:48)

�6 months of training before going to Guadalcanal (13:30)
13th Air force was being assembled (13:50)
Air strikes every night on Guadalcanal (14:10)
Naval bombardment (14:40)
The elements and malaria (15:40)
He came down with Jungle Rot but no other diseases (16:05)
The Jungle Rot actually came back to him twenty-five years later (16:30)
He was sent to Cleveland Clinic were a form of vinegar was used to cure it (17:05)
He was crew chief with The 12th Fighter Squadron, which flew strafing missions and provided
cover for bombers (18:10)
A CO asked if anyone knew anything about radial engines, and so he was recruited to work on
radial engines (19:25)
They fixed up a radial engine plane and used it to fly everywhere, including R&amp;R, and picked up
odds and ends (20:15)
While bringing back tomatoes, the tomato cans exploded because of the altitude and he had to
write a report on the exploding tomatoes (22:15)
Eventually they added cameras to the planes to confirm kills (24:30)
Every year the planes would become more advanced (25:00)
Currently there are memorial flights (26:40)
Japanese would attack from Buin (28:30)
Moved base to New Guinea (29:15)
Twenty-six land sea invasions in the Pacific (31:35)
Japanese atrocities (32:00)
His military duties consisted primarily of maintenance (34:00)
He remained in the Pacific for three months after the war had ended before shipping back to the
US (35:50)
Got on a ship in December and went to Antioch California (36:00)

�After the war he decided to leave the air force (36:15)
He worked in Biscuit Company for a short period (36:35)
He became a radial enjoin instructor (37:00)
He went to Hawaii and worked as the Civilian Line Chief for the Air Transport Command in
Honolulu (37:40)
Patients and planes with problems would stop in Honolulu (39:05)
The military build the biggest VA Hospital in the area (40:30)
He spent nine years in Hawaii (40:25)
Portuguese origin of the Ukulele (42:45)
After Hawaii, he came back to the US in Willow Run, Michigan (43:50)
He went to work for Kaiser Frazer Automobile (45:30)
His time in the service and his thoughts (47:00)
He was grateful and learned a lot and contributed a lot (47:00)
Lots of respect and camaraderie (48:10)
Twenty-five years after getting out of the military, he officially became a US citizen (50:00)
He has seven sons; some of them became Marines (51:30)
 

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Boring, Frank</text>
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                <text>Nick Marrone was born in Italy in 1924 and came to the United States in 1929. He was drafted into the army, and was assigned to the Army Air Corps as a mechanic.  He served with the 13th Air Force in the South Pacific from 1943 to 1945. H was a crew chief in the 12th Fighter Squadron, which was based on Guadalcanal and New Guinea.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Frank Marshall
Vietnam War
1 hour 0 minutes 50 seconds
(00:00:11) Early Life
-Born in Philadelphia on February 2, 1949
-Grew up on the north side of Philadelphia
-Mother was a seamstress for Alfred Angelo
-Father was a truck driver
-Witnessed, first hand, the bombing of Pearl Harbor
-Served with the famous writer James Jones
-Graduated from Dobbins High School in 1966
-Worked in printing and plumbing after high school
(00:02:11) Awareness of Vietnam
-Paid no attention to Vietnam
-He knew that he would be drafted eventually
-Instead chose to focus on enjoying life while he still could
-Apathetic towards the conflict in Vietnam
(00:02:44) Getting Drafted
-Received draft notice between Christmas and New Year’s Eve 1968
-Had already completed the draft physical when he had turned eighteen
-Everyone had been trying to get out of being drafted
-Some men were able to successfully escape the draft
(00:03:39) Basic Training
-Sent to Fort Bragg, North Carolina for basic training
-Harsh reality set in upon arrival
-Considered himself to have been treated well
-Everything was fast paced, but he expected that
-Credits part of the ease of basic to the attitude he had going in
-Believed that it was just something that he had to get through
-Trained with other men from Philadelphia
-Basic training lasted eight weeks
(00:05:35) Advanced Infantry Training
-Sent to Fort Dix, New Jersey for advanced infantry training
-For him it was easier than basic training
-Seemed easier being close to home
-Able to go home frequently
-Less of a physical training focus
-Received weapons training there
-Most instructors were Vietnam veterans
-Felt that they did a good job preparing the recruits for Vietnam
-Mostly taught from the textbook though
-AIT lasted eight weeks

�(00:08:00) Noncommissioned Officer School
-At the end of AIT he was drafted into NCO School
-Sent to Fort Benning, Georgia
-Training did not go well
-He didn’t want to become a noncommissioned officer
-Training was difficult for him
-He wanted to fail out and get reassigned to Europe
-Informed that the Army didn’t send failed NCO’s to Europe any more
-Received orders for deployment to Vietnam
(00:09:17) Deployment to Vietnam
-Given thirty days of leave before being deployed
-He wasn’t worried
-Seemed to believe that the war would wind down shortly after he arrived
-Returned to Fort Dix and flew out of McGuire Air Force Base on October 8, 1969
-Flown to California, then Hawaii, then Guam
-Only allowed off the plane for an hour at each stop
(00:10:41) Arrival in Vietnam
-Landed in Long Binh, Vietnam
-The heat in Vietnam was shocking and intimidating
-Sent to processing center to be assigned to his unit
-Spent a few days there
-Got assigned to Alpha Company 2nd Battalion 506th Regiment, 101st Airborne Division
-Sent north to Da Nang on a transport plane
-From Da Nang flown to Phu Bai on a Chinook helicopter
-From Phu Bai taken to Camp Evans on a truck
-Still didn’t have any gear, weaponry, or general equipment
(00:12:46) Arriving at Camp Evans
-Issued gear, equipment, and a rifle at Camp Evans
-Alpha Company was in the field tearing down old firebases in the north
-He was given two weeks of introductory training at Camp Evans
-Rappelling out of helicopters, patrolling, guard duty, basic information
-He was instructed how to make a backpack for the field and was then told to board helicopter
(00:14:21) In the Field Pt. 1
-Boarded a helicopter and went into the field to meet up with Alpha Company
-Met them at the landing zone
-Seeing the battle hardened veterans put the fear in him
-Placed in a section on the edge of the landing zone
-Told to watch for Vietnamese and to fire on them if necessary
-Saw six soldiers get chopped up by a helicopter blade due to a faulty landing
-Had to collect and body bag the remains
-Assigned to 1st Platoon and they made camp halfway up a hill
-Eventually worked their way up to a firebase
-Getting to know the other soldiers was tough
-Battle hardened
-Placed on point and wasn’t good at it which upset the other soldiers
-Given the M79 grenade launcher afterwards

�(00:19:20) In the Field Pt. 2
-Got into a firefight with a sniper
-Fired a few grenades in the sniper’s general direction
-Stayed in the field for a couple of weeks and then returned to Camp Evans
-There were a lot of new replacements waiting for them
-He formed closer bonds with them
-Still had no idea how to operate in Vietnam
-Stayed at Camp Evans for a few days
-Returned to the field and continued tearing down old firebases
-Stayed in that area of operations through December
-Ran into booby traps and snipers occasionally
-Fairly easy missions at that point though
-Had faith in the experienced soldiers and his officers
(00:23:05) Firebase Jack
-Once the monsoons set in they were moved to the flatlands
-Used Firebase Jack as their base camp
-Moved there in January or February 1970
-He was put on a rappel team
-Their mission was to go in first and create a landing zone for helicopters
-Enjoyed staying on Firebase Jack
-Had time to relax
-The only job was to guard the perimeter
-Patrolled the flatlands and swamps looking for North Vietnamese Army (NVA)
-NVA were trying to move troops down from the Ho Chi Minh Trail
-They didn’t find many NVA
-Had scattered firefights and no casualties
(00:26:07) Establishing Firebase Ripcord
-He was on the third helicopter in to establish Firebase Ripcord [March 12, 1970]
-The landing zone turned hot upon their arrival
-They lost their lieutenant and radio operator and took heavy casualties
-En route their designated landing zone had been changed to a different one
-Landed in the midst of North Vietnamese troops
-They started taking fire immediately
-Lost his equipment getting off the helicopter
-Moved into position to knock out a visible machine gun nest
-Had no ammunition
-Had run back up the hill to the landing zone to get ammo
-Eventually was able to mark the nest for a Cobra gunship
(00:30:05) In the Field at Firebase Ripcord
-Continued to operate in that area
-Jungle and mountainous region
-Tough moving in that area
-Stayed on the North Vietnamese trails
-They noticed a marked increase in enemy activity as the months went on
-Spent most of their time in the field
-Didn’t get to spend a lot of time on Firebase Ripcord

�-Had sporadic firefights and increasing casualties in the spring of 1970
-Higher presence of NVA
-American presence had little, to no, effect on the NVA
-He was in a major firefight at Hill 805
-Chuck Norris’s brother was with them when he was killed in action there
-Saw a Chinook helicopter crash at Firebase Ripcord
-They tapped into a Vietnamese communication line
-Learned that they were in the middle of two NVA bases
-Ambushed the NVA repairman
-Wounded him, but couldn’t track him back to his base
-They knew that Firebase Ripcord was getting hit hard and frequently
(00:38:13) R&amp;R
-Went on R&amp;R and the battalion was sent for a break at Eagle Beach
-He went to Taipei, Taiwan
-Only available R&amp;R destination
-Welcomed and thoroughly enjoyed the respite from combat
-Given fifteen days of R&amp;R
(00:40:07) Firefight on June 8, 1970
-He and his unit got into a severe firefight on June 8, 1970
-He was wounded in the fighting
-Had been sent forward to fire on an enemy bunker
-Took some shrapnel in the back as a result
-Sent to Da Nang hospital for three days of treatment and recovery
(00:41:06) Firefight on July 22, 1970-Overview
-On July 22 they were on a hilltop near Ripcord
-Ordered to get off the hilltop
nd
-2 Platoon advanced directly into a North Vietnamese mortar team
-Four hundred NVA soldiers were surrounding them
-By the end of the day only six Americans weren’t wounded or killed
-He was wounded three times during the fighting
(00:43:08) Firefight on July 22, 1970-Details
-The platoons had been separated moving off the hill
-The NVA were able to quickly take the hilltop and get the high ground
-They were eventually able to reestablish contact with air support
-Cobra gunship was called in to attack the NVA
-An F4 Phantom was able to come in and drop a 250 lb. bomb on their position
-Drove the NVA back for the night
-He was wounded by the concussion of a satchel charge detonating
-He was wounded from the shrapnel of an exploding rocket propelled grenade (RPG)
-He was wounded by taking shrapnel in the ankle
-After the third and final wound he was carried to safety and the bomb was dropped
(00:48:24) Firefight on July 22, 1970-Rescue
-They stayed awake all night
-Delta Company attempted to move in that night and pick them up
-The lack of a viable landing zone made it impossible
-At first light Delta Company was dropped into a better landing zone

�-Delta pushed through the NVA and made it to Alpha Company’s position
-Once there Delta created a landing zone at Alpha’s position and evacuated them
(00:50:11) Time in the Hospitals
-He was taken back to Camp Evans
-Spent six weeks in a variety of hospitals
-After Camp Evans he was taken to Phu Bai for preliminary examinations
-After Phu Bai he was taken back to Da Nang Hospital
-After Da Nang he was taken to the 483rd Air Force hospital at Cam Ranh Bay
-Felt comfortable and secure there
-After a few weeks he was allowed to walk again
(00:51:22) End of Deployment
-Returned to Camp Evans after the time spent in the hospitals
-He was supposed to return home in two weeks
-He was supposed to return to the field
-His congressman pulled some strings so that he wouldn’t have to
-Spent the last two weeks in August 1970 guarding the base and on latrine duty
(00:52:19) Coming Home
-Flown from Camp Evans to Phu Bai
-From Phu Bai went directly back to Fort Lewis, Washington
-Received a steak dinner upon arrival
-Remembers everyone celebrating when they entered friendly airspace
-From Washington he flew home to Philadelphia
-Returned home in uniform
-There were some protestors at the airports, but nothing dramatic happened
(00:53:30) Morale, Race, and Drugs
-Received a large amount of mail and care packages while deployed
-Received a birthday cake on his 21st birthday while in the field
-Had to assemble it in the field
-The unit was close knit
-Fought together from October to the end of his deployment
-If someone was wounded or killed it impacted everyone in the unit
-They worked well together in, and out, of the field
-Never experienced racial tension while they were in the field
-Prevalent issue in the rear
-Never dealt with drugs while in the field due to safety concerns
-In the rear drugs were used fairly liberally
(00:56:21) Life after the War
-Returned home and bought a Dodge Charger
-Got a printing job
-Kept that job for a year until he was laid off
-Got into roofing and started a roofing business
-Eventually got into real estate in New Jersey and worked in that for a decade
-Retired from real estate
(00:57:31) Founding of Ripcord Association
-When he came home nobody wanted to talk about the Vietnam War
-Other veterans didn’t believe that Ripcord happened, or had even heard about it

�-Began to get involved with veterans in 1985
-Part of a group that wanted to create a veteran’s memorial in Philadelphia
-Got out of that due to controversy surrounding the project
-Got in contact with surviving members of the Battle of Ripcord
-Started off with twelve veterans and it soon grew to two hundred
-Had their first mini-reunion in Seaside heights
-Local news picked it up
-More Ripcord veterans got involved
-Had their first organized reunion in 1986 in Whitney, New Jersey
-Now manages the website, newsletter, memberships and other general communications

�</text>
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                <text>Frank Marshall was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in 1949. He lived there until he recived his draft notice late in 1968. After basic training at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and advanced training at Fort Dix, New Jersey, he went to NCO school at Fort Benning, Georgia. He quit that program and was sent to Vietnam, where he was assigned to Alpha Company of the 2nd Battalion 506th Infantry of the 101st Airborne Division.  He participated in shutdown operations in the A Shau Valley late in 1969, then operated closer to the coast in early 1970, and then took part in the campaign around Firebase Ripcord, and was wounded three times. He returned home in August and was discharged. He later became one of the founding members of the Ripcord Association, and remains actively involved with that organization.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veteran’s History Project
Iraq War
Justin Marshall
Interview Length: (00:26:11:00)
Life before the Army (00:00:09:00)
 Before joining the military, Marshall was in his last semester of college (00:00:15:00)
o He figured this would be the best time for him to join because he did not have any
other commitments, such as a wife or kids. (00:00:25:00)
 Marshall has a history of military personnel in his own family. (00:00:37:00)
o His father and both his grandfathers were in the army. The grandfathers served in
WWII: One in Southeast Asia and one in Europe. (00:00:39:00)
 Marshall grew up in New Jersey. (00:00:49:00)
o While he was in middle school, his family moved to Vermont. (00:00:52:00)
o The family moved to Michigan sometime later, where Marshall finished high
school and attended Kettering University. (00:00:55:00)
 When he confronted his parents about joining the military, Marshall’s father was very
excited while his mother was not. (00:01:07:00)
 Marshall joined because he wanted to do something for his country and he was out of
shape. (00:01:40:00)
o Additionally, in regards to controversy over the war in Iraq, he never wanted to
make “uninformed statements” about why or why not Americans should be
fighting in this war. (00:02:22:00).
o “I joined to know a little bit more about myself” (00:02:41:00)
o “I wanted to be humbled.” (00:04:10:00)
Early Military Experience (00:04:15:00)
 In January of 2004, Marshall enlisted in the United States Army. (00:04:20:00)
 On July 27th, 2004, Marshall went to basic training. (00:04:30:00)
o This was a 9- week long program. (00:04:33:00)
 Basic training is “just like you see in the movies”. (00:04:42:00)
o Marshall believes that the purpose of this program is “training you as a basic
soldier”, just as the title suggests. (00:05:00:00)
 After basic training, Marshall went to Officer Candidate School which lasted for 14
weeks. (00:05:11:00)
o At OCS, “they teach you more about being a leader”. (00:05:20:00)
o At OCS your communication is limited as it was in basic training. He was able to
make 5-10 minute phone calls and use e-mail a few times a week. (00:06:02:00)
 After OCS, Marshall went to Airborne School which lasted for 3 weeks. This was located
in Georgia. (00:06:35:00)
 After Airborne School, Marshall attended an Infantry Officer Basics Course.
(00:06:52:00)
o This taught infantry tactics and extended leadership training. (00:07:01:00)
 After IOBC, Marshall attended Mechanized Vehicles Course. (00:07:10:00)
o Here, he learned how to work certain military utility vehicles. He needed this
knowledge to become a platoon leader. (00:07:25:00)

�

The final course in which Marshall was enrolled was “Ranger School”, which lasted over
60 days. (00:07:40:00)
o The program consisted of 3 “phases” which were each about 21 days long. Each
featured a different kind of terrain that students would have to work in.
(00:07:48:00)
o He felt a particular pressure to complete this course because his father had been
an army ranger. (00:08:31:00)
 He completed Ranger School in January of 2006. (00:09:10:00)
First Deployment (00:09:11:00)
 Marshall joined his unit- First Battalion 6th infantry- in March of 2006. (00:09:12:00)
 When Marshall joined the unit, they had already been deployed to Iraq and were waiting
in Kuwait for further instruction. (00:09:54:00)
o After a month in Baumholder Germany, Marshall joined the unit in Kuwait after a
1- week “train-up”. (00:09:58:00)
 Marshall became a platoon leader on May 1st, 2006 as soon as he arrived in Kuwait with
his unit. (00:10:09:00)
o After remaining in Kuwait for 1 month, the unit was called to Iraq. (00:11:05:00)
 The unit arrived in the city of Ramadi, Iraq. (00:11:12:00)
o Ramadi was a “hot spot” at the time of Marshall’s units’ arrival. Al Qaeda had
been recruiting people in the Southwest region of the city. (00:11:52:00)
 Marshall remained in Ramadi for 6 months. (00:12:03:00)
o “I had bullets shot at me”. (00:12:10:00)
o Marshall’s unit also encountered roadside bombs. (00:12:15:00)
o Nobody in his platoon was killed, but one man was shot. Thanks to a “very well
trained medic”, the man’s life was saved. (00:12:20:00)
o However, two men were killed: one that was in Marshall’s company and another
that had previously been in his company and transferred to another. (00:12:42:00)
Second Deployment (00:13:00:00)
 After Ramadi, Marshall’s unit was transferred to Baumholder, Germany. (00:13:02:00)
o They did another “train- up” for Iraq while there. (00:13:10:00)
 After another short period in Germany, Marshall and the others were transferred to Sadr
City, Iraq. (00:13:17:00)
o “Sadr City was the urban slum in Baghdad”. (00:13:25:00)
o This city was only made to fit about 1 million people; however there was about 3
million there when Marshall arrived. (00:13:47:00)
o The Mahdi Army had been shooting rockets inside the “green zone”, or
“International Zone of Baghdad”. Marshall’s unit was put in charge of
constructing a blockade wall for the Green Zone. As a result, the opposition
issued a cease fire and rockets were no longer being launched at the protected
region. (00:14:03:00)
o After the construction of the wall, Marshall’s unit devoted effort to rebuilding the
slums of Sadr City. (00:14:34:00)
Other Military Experiences (00:15:20:00)
 During his first deployment, Marshall and the other men that accompanied him did not
have a great amount of provisions.

�











o They had to build their own shelter from an abandoned house in Ramadi because
the outpost had not yet been constructed when they arrived. (00:15:22:00)
o The men used abandoned sleeping pads that Iraqi soldiers had left behind, which
were infested with fleas. (00:16:40:00)
o Marshall and the others used outhouses and wooden shower stalls. (00:17:05:00)
“During the second deployment, living conditions were good”. (00:17:48:00)
o The men were able to sleep in bunk beds. (00:17:51:00)
o After a month of being there, “trailer stalls” were delivered. These units included
bathrooms and showers. (00:17:58:00)
o Supplies came in fast enough to permit the men to eat hot meals every day, but
“every third meal was the same”. (00:18:55:00)
In terms of the civilians, “I’m not really sure how they felt about us”. (00:19:56:00)
o Marshall believes that the threatening appearance of the United States army
caused locals to be non-receptive. (00:19:58:00)
o He doesn’t think the military presence did much good due to the tension between
the army and the Iraqi people. (00:20:10:00)
o The hostile disposition of those in the United States army because “the enemy”
often hid amongst the civilians, disguised as such. Therefore, Marshall and the
others had to keep their guard up even when it came to common folk.
(00:20:35:00)
During the second deployment, “the civilians were not receptive” because the military
presence in the Shia community caused conflict amongst the civilians. (00:20:50:00)
o Once the U.S. soldiers began to help rebuild Sadr City, the tension diminished as
many people were being freed of extortion by the Mahdi Army, community
structures were being built, and public services were improved. (00:21:14:00)
One of Marshall’s favorite Army memories was playing whiffle ball on Thanksgiving.
(00:23:00:00)
Marshall handled many different weapons and always carried an M4 Carbine Rifle.
(00:23:30:00)
o He was also trained on M16 rifles, M240 Bravos, MK 19 Grenade Launchers
M249 Squad Automatic Weapons (SAW), and the weapons on the Bradley
Fighting Vehicle. (00:23:37:00)
Marshall earned the Bronze Star Medal for planning an assault. He administered the
helicopter route for the soldiers involved. (00:24:22:00)
Because he was an officer, Marshall was expected to use communication facilities less
than other lower ranked soldiers. Therefore he did not talk to his family and friends back
home very often. (00:25:30:00)

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                <text>Justin Marshall was born in in New Jersey and later moved to Michigan with his family where he finished high school. Marshall decided to enlist in the United States Army in during his last semester of college at Kettering University. In 2004, he was sent to basic training, after which he took a number of extra courses including Officer Candidate School, Airborne School, a mechanized vehicle course, and Ranger School. In March of 2006, Marshall joined the First Battalion, 6th Infantry Regiment, as a platoon leader, and later became a captain and company commander. On the first of his two deployments, he was sent to Ramadi, Iraq, which was a "Hot Spot" for Al-Qaeda recruitment. His second deployment was to the Sadr City area of Baghdad, Iraq, where Marshall and his comrades helped rebuild the struggling community and eliminate extortion by the Mahdi Army.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: World War II
Interviewee name: Robert Marshall
Length of Interview: 56 minutes
Pre-Enlistment (00:54)
o Childhood (01:04)
 Marshall was born in Chicago, Illinois on July 17th, 1928. (01:06)
o Family (01:11)
 At age, eight Marshall’s father died. He briefly mentions the fact that his
mother immigrated from Germany, whereas his father immigated from
Ireland. (01:20)
 Growing up Marshall and his folks lived on the North Side of Chicago just
a few blocks from Wrigley Field. Mentions a few experiences there.
(02:05)
o Education (02:49)
 Marshall didn’t finish high school but finished at a Lutheran parochial
school. (03:10)
o His Job (03:15)
 Briefly mentions working in a cold-storage warehouse. Also mentions his
various jobs. (03:24)
Enlistment/Training (03:57)
o Background (03:58)
 May 1944: FDR signed an Executive Order lowering the draft age for
inductees into the Maritime Service to the age of 16. (04:21)
 Marshall briefly discussed how he joined the service. (04:51)
o Why he joined (05:12)
 He attributes his joining the armed service in part to peer pressure, the
need to do his patriotic duty, and then that the maritime service was the
only branch willing to take a 16-year old kid. (05:18)
o Where they trained and what company they were in (05:30)
 Went to Sheepshead Bay for basic training. Briefly describes the
discipline and regular routine of training and taking tests. Overall he had a
positive experience there. (05:57)
 Next, Marshall landed up at Hoffman Island, New York in Nov., 1944
where he briefly describes the place and schooling he received there.
(08:21)
 While still at Hoffman Island, New York Marshall learned Morse Code &amp;
theory; how radios worked, and after mastering it graduated. (09:52)
o Living conditions (10:05)
 Mentions spending much of his free time at a local church in New York
City and visitng various places too. (10:54)
 Graduated from Hoffman Island in April 44’ and had a week’s leave of
furlough. (11:07)

�o Active Duty (13:03)
 Background (13:05)
• Briefly shaers his thoughts as they made their way through the
Straits of Juan de Fuca the waters in the Seattle/Port Angeles area.
(13:37)
• From there his ship sailed to a naval base where they stopped and
loaded more cargo. (14:26)
• Mentions the excitement expressed in learning the ins and outs of a
sailor. (14:43) And then he also discusses briefly what sort of man
his British captain was like. (15:05))
• In April/May 45’ Marshall arrived at Eniwetok (15:59) Shares his
thoughts while there. (16:10)
 Guam voyage (16:10)
• 2 weeks out, he was in Guam. On their way there, his ship sailed
sailed without a convoy escort; something rarely done. He
remembers how anxious the crew aboard ship were. Stayed in
Guam for a few days in July 45’. (17:26)
o While stationed here, the authorities issued a report that a
possible typhoon was going to hit the island. They issued
warning to ships to stay out to sea away from shore.
(18:44) Last minute, the typhoon missed the island and
they stayed a few more days. Marshall further mentions
hearing rumors going around of a possible U.S. invasion of
Japan. (20:20)
• Out to sea experiences (20:23)
o In one instance, Marshall mentions being on night duty
when he heard a bunch of Navy officers discussing the
treaty that was signed between Japan and the U.S. which
ending the war. (20:25) After arriving back in San
Francisco and being there two weeks, Marshall signed off
his ship. (20:26) Briefly describes his thoughts of VJ day.
(21:29)
• After World War II Years (21:30)
o Afterwards, Marshall and his friend Sid boarded a train for
Chicago. Upon arriving he decided to go to New York City.
(22:43)
o In New York, Marshall mentions reporting to radio
operations and being assigned to the USS Henry
Wadsworth Longfellow; a converted troop transport.
(22:54) While serving aboard her, Marshall mentions the
various calls to ports across the eastern seaboard and
Belgian ports that his ship came to call at. (23:07).
o In one instance, his ship brought back a bunch of men from
one of Patton’s HQ companies. (23:55)
o While he was in the European port city of LeHavre, France
(24:13) he learned about the poor economic conditions

�o

o

o

o

o

o

facing much of Europe in the post-world war. Briefly
shares his thoughts about it. (24:33)
Antwerp, as he describes, was a disaster zone in which the
currency among the local people was cigarettes which was
a lot like gold to them. (25:40)
Marshall mentions that the general feelings among
Europeans about Americans were ones of deep gratitude.
Further mentions that while he was aboard his troop ship
that their main mission was to bring troops back home and
not cargo to Europe. (27:19)
After serving a year aboard the USS Henry Wadsworth
Longfellow, he signed off that ship and signed onto the
cargo ship, USS Steven W. Gilvary, which was operated by
the Atlantic Guilf &amp; West Indies’ Lines (27:36) Operating
out of Savannah, his ship stopped in Maine and filled up
with a cargo of red potatoes which they brought to
Antwerp, Belgium. (28:28) On this occasion his ship
received orders to divert to Nova Scotia. (29:43) Mentions
that it took them 3 days to unload their cargo of potatoes.
Afterwards, they returned to Savannah for ship repairs and
upon landing Marshall and the crew were terminated.
(31:41)
Afterwards, Marshall signed aboard a Victory ship in
which he mentions making various runs to Belgium from
1946 to 1947. (32:52) Mentions that afterwards he went on
to radio and electronics school, while also taking general
courses in Math, English, and Composition with the
Merchant Marines. (33:47)
The next ship, Marshall served aboard was the C-2 USS
Crest of the Waves, which was a larger version of a Liberty
ship. While serving aboard her, he mentions making
varoius runs up and down the Caribbean; stopping at Cuba
&amp; Panama. Served aboard her until mid-to-late 1947 when
he returned to land for a while and worked a factory job in
Chicago. (35:57)
After a miserable experience in factory life, Marshall
mentioned signing onto an old oil tanker named the Harry
S. Sinclair Jr. (36:22) Briefly describes the ship and it
being torpedoed during WWII. (37:33) After being put up
for auction three skippers pulling their resources bought the
ship for charter purposes. It was aboard this ship that
Marshall mentions various trips up and down the Eastern
sea board. (39:59) Briefly describes in depth what the
captain and his duties were like. (44:58)

After the Service (44:58)
o Adjusting to Home (44:59)

�

After being discharged he describes his brief period of installing teleivions
(45:01)
o Korean War (45:12)
 Before long, the War Department called him back to the service. They sent
him out to Japan where he was put in charge of teaching a bunch of Army
signal people how to run and fix radars. (45:19)
 Living in Japan for 3 years he served at Johnson Air Force Base. (45:55)
 Mentions that while there, the experience rekindled some of his WWII
experience. (46:48)
o Life after after the Korean War (45:20)
 Came back to the U.S. and worked for IT&amp;T for 25 years. Briefly
describes his time with them. (47:04)
 Briefly mentions several of his technical projects while serving with the
Strategic Air Command. (47:35) Some of the planes he was equipping
went on to be flown in flying missions over Hungary. (47:56)
 Further mentions an encounter where he met a certain General
Montgomery. (50:16)
 Marshall further discusses his other career pursuits. (53:08)
 Finally, Marshall mentions how his time in the Merchant Marines had
benefited him. He describes it this way: the discipline, structure, and sense
of responsibility he received while there shaped the course of his life very
profoundly. (56:45)

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                    <text>Young Lords
In Lincoln Park
Interviewee: Martha López
Interviewers: José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez
Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections
Date: 3/30/2012

Biography and Description
English
Martha López grew up in Chicago’s Lincoln Park neighborhood and recalls the thriving Puerto Rican
community there, especially the youth groups, Caballeros de San Juan, and the Young Lords. She also
recalls being attacked “from the whites and the blacks” who lived in different parts of Old Town and
Lincoln Park. Chicago was a very segregated city in the 1950s and early 1960s and the neighborhood of
Lincoln Park was no different. Ms. López recalls that she had to throw a few swings and was not afraid of
fighting anyone male or female when she was confronted, but that she was never in a gang. Martha
attended Arnold Elementary and Waller High School. Her husband was a decorated military veteran.

Spanish
Martha López creció en el vecindario de Lincoln Park y recuerda como la comunidad puertorriqueña
prospera allí, especialmente en los jóvenes con grupos como Caballeros de San Juan y los Young Lords.
También recuerda como fue atacada “por los blancos y morenos” quien vivía en otras partes del “Old
Town” en Lincoln Park. Chicago era una ciudad muy segregado en los 1950 y 1960 y Lincoln Park no era
diferente. Señora López recuerda que no tenía miedo de pelear con nadie cuando se enfrentaron con

�ella, y tuvo que tirar unos golpes. Pero ella nunca fue parte de una ganga. López atendió Arnold
Elementary y luego Waller High school. Su esposo es un veterano miliario condecorado.

�Transcript
JOSE JIMENEZ:

Go ahead and give me your name again.

MARTHA LOPEZ: Mi nombre es[00:00:02] Martha Lopez. (Spanish) [00:00:04 00:00:08] Martha [Martinez?].
JJ:

Okay, Martha Martinez. Martha, when did you first come to Chicago, or were you
born there?

ML:

I came in 1958.

JJ:

So you were born in Puerto Rico?

ML:

I was born in Puerto Rico.

JJ:

Where? What town are you from?

ML:

Arecibo.

JJ:

Arecibo? Okay. And you came in 1958.

ML:

Nineteen fifty-eight.

JJ:

Where did you live when you first came?

ML:

I lived at Dickens and Larrabee.

JJ:

Did you come by yourself, or were your brothers and sisters, your whole family,
or how did you come?

ML:

My mother and my brothers. My father was already here. He came like a year
before.

JJ:

And what was he doing? What kind of work was he doing?

ML:

He was a candy maker.

JJ:

Oh, a candy maker? Okay. [00:01:00] And so he saved money and brought the
family?

1

�ML:

Right.

JJ:

Now, did your mother come and work, or was she a housewife?

ML:

She was a housewife for a while. Then she worked at the candy packer called
Peerless Confection.

JJ:

Okay. Okay. You don’t know where that was at?

ML:

Yeah, right over here on Schubert, Schubert and Lakewood.

JJ:

And Lakewood?

ML:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

Okay. And so she packed the candy boxes and that?

ML:

She packed candies, yeah. Boxes, cans, different ornaments that they had.

JJ:

Okay. Was that -- also your father worked there? Is he the one that got her the
job, or...?

ML:

Her brother.

JJ:

Her brother worked there.

ML:

Guillermo, the one you interviewed the other day, he got the job. He was
foreman there for many years.

JJ:

Okay. So that was your mother’s brother?

ML:

Yes.

JJ:

Guillermo. Okay, okay. So ’58. [00:02:00] So Guillermo was part of the church.
Was your mother part of the church too, or...?

ML:

No. My mother was from the Church of Christ. Well, my father was. Then my
mother converted later.

JJ:

Okay. From the United Church of Christ?

2

�ML:

No, just the Church of Christ.

JJ:

The Church of Christ, okay. How many other siblings -- how many brothers and
sisters did you have?

ML:

Four brothers. One passed.

JJ:

One passed. Any sisters, or any other sisters?

ML:

No sisters.

JJ:

Okay. So it was five altogether?

ML:

Five altogether.

JJ:

And you were the youngest, the oldest, or...?

ML:

I was the second. Second-oldest.

JJ:

So you came in 1958, and you came to Diversey, that area?

ML:

Larrabee and Dickens.

JJ:

Oh, Larrabee. I’m sorry. Okay. You went right into the Lincoln Park
neighborhood.

ML:

[00:03:00] Right.

JJ:

So how old were you then?

ML:

I was nine and a half.

JJ:

Okay. So you remember pretty good the neighborhood at nine and a half, no?

ML:

Well, yeah, then. Yeah. I remember. I still remember. It changed a lot, but I
remember.

JJ:

Okay. What was the main population, the main group of people that lived there?

ML:

The main group? It was all mixed.

JJ:

It was all mixed?

3

�ML:

It was all mixed.

JJ:

Okay. Were there a lot of Puerto Ricans, or no, or a few, or...?

ML:

A few. A few Puerto Ricans.

JJ:

At that time? Okay.

ML:

Yeah.

JJ:

How were the Puerto Ricans received?

ML:

Well, I didn’t notice anything, you know, around the neighborhood, because we
were mainly kept inside. You know, everything was new to us, so my father
really --

JJ:

Even the brothers? Your brothers, too?

ML:

[00:04:00] My brothers, too. Mm-hmm. We were little kids.

JJ:

So he kept you inside. Why would he keep you inside if there was no Puerto
Ricans outside, so there was no trouble you can get into, right?

ML:

Well, because we were kids, and we were new here, so we didn’t know, you
know. We didn’t know anything about the United States.

JJ:

So he was worried that you might get lost or something?

ML:

Get lost and, you know -- my father was really, you know -- he really took care of
us.

JJ:

What do you mean, he took care of you?

ML:

Well, he was always -- had us in, to keep us out of trouble. You know, they were
always taking good care of us, my mom and dad. They never left us alone or
anything. We were, what is it, twenty-four seven with them. They really
[00:05:00] didn’t let us run around when we got here. Later on, then we got a

4

�little loose and stuff, like playing in the alleys and stuff, baseball.
JJ:

In the alley, you played baseball?

ML:

My brothers did, and then I followed. And I roller skated (laughs) in the alley.
Learned how to roller skate.

JJ:

Okay. You mean with aluminum -- those steel roller skates?

ML:

Yes, mm-hmm.

JJ:

At that time. So you said you got a little loose. Was the alley a little dangerous,
or no?

ML:

Well, then it wasn’t too dangerous, but, you know, when you’re a kid, you don’t
know anything about danger. You just wanna play. And that’s what my brothers
did. They played, and I also played. But my mom and dad were the ones that
were always keeping an eye on us. They were always -- you know, we had to
tell them where we were at all times.

JJ:

Okay. [00:06:00] Your father was in the Church of Christ.

ML:

Yes.

JJ:

So did you all go to the service, or...?

ML:

Yes, he took us.

JJ:

What was that like in the service? Were there more Spanish people there, or...?

ML:

There were a group of about 50 people.

JJ:

About 50 people? But how about the Spanish?

ML:

Spanish? Everybody was Spanish.

JJ:

Oh, at that church?

ML:

Yeah. They have two groups. They had an English group and a Spanish group.

5

�And there was a American lady that -- she took us. So they taught us the word of
God.
JJ:

Okay.

ML:

It was pretty good.

JJ:

Did they have fellowship, like afterwards, or some kind of -- you know, where
they get together afterwards, or...?

ML:

No, we just went home.

JJ:

Just went home after?

ML:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

Okay. [00:07:00] That’s what he was in Puerto Rico? He was part of that church
in Puerto Rico, or...?

ML:

No, uh-uh. I believe he was a Catholic, but I don’t remember seeing a church in
Puerto Rico.

JJ:

When you were younger, you didn’t go to the Catholic church?

ML:

No. I don’t remember going to church.

JJ:

Okay. So you came here. Who were your friends? Did you have any girl friends
at that time, at that age, or...?

ML:

In Puerto Rico?

JJ:

No, here, when you got here.

ML:

Here? Girl friends? No, it was mainly family.

JJ:

It was mainly family?

ML:

Yeah.

JJ:

Prima y[00:07:42], people like that, or...?

6

�ML:

Prima y Primos, [00:07:45 - 00:07:47].

JJ:

Okay, that you can remember. Well, you said something about Puerto Rico, so
did you have a lot of friends in Puerto Rico, or no?

ML:

Puerto Rico? I don’t remember, because I came here when I was nine and a
half.

JJ:

Okay, [00:08:00] so you don’t remember. Okay.

ML:

So I don’t remember having any close friends.

JJ:

Okay. So now you’re going to -- what school are you going to then, when you
came here?

ML:

I went to Lincoln School when I came here.

JJ:

Okay, Lincoln School.

ML:

On Geneva -- I believe it’s Geneva and Dickens. Not sure if it’s Dickens. But it
was on that neighborhood. Orchard? Orchard and Dickens, around there.

JJ:

Orchard and Dickens, around there, Lincoln School?

ML:

Orchard, Dickens -- there was Orchard, Dickens, and Geneva. I remember those
streets. I think it’s still there.

JJ:

Yeah, it’s by Grant Hospital. That’s where you’re --

ML:

Exactly. Mm-hmm.

JJ:

Okay. And Lincoln School -- there’s a school somewhere around there, yeah.

ML:

Yeah, that’s the same one. I think it’s -- I have the picture there.

JJ:

And what do you remember from there, from that school?

ML:

What do I remember? Well, I didn’t know any English, that’s for sure, so I had
[00:09:00] a battle tryin’ to -- you know, I had to try to learn the language. And

7

�fighting with the kids.
JJ:

Fighting with the kids? Why?

ML:

Because being Latina, we didn’t know that we had a language barrier, and I
guess they didn’t like us. We got beat up.

JJ:

What do you mean, you guess -- how can you say that? Why would you say
that?

ML:

Because they ran us home every day, and they used to beat my brothers up. I
was always up front waiting for them so we could get home safe.

JJ:

So your brothers had to run home from school?

ML:

Just practically every day, we had to run home, and have a little fight in between.

JJ:

Now, this wasn’t a gang. This was just a --

ML:

It wasn’t gangs. Kids beating up kids.

JJ:

Just kids beating [00:10:00] up kids at that time?

ML:

Yeah, just like now. Kids beat up kids.

JJ:

But this was white kids beating up on Spanish kids?

ML:

Yes.

JJ:

Mainly at that time?

ML:

At that time, yes.

JJ:

Because there were not really any Blacks in that area.

ML:

No, not really. Only when we lived --

JJ:

I’m just -- I’m asking, I don’t know.

ML:

Only when we lived by Cabrini-Green. When we lived there, then we went to a
school named Schiller, yeah.

8

�JJ:

So you went first there, and you moved further south to Cabrini-Green?

ML:

Exactly.

JJ:

Okay. So you went the other way, going south instead of north. So you went to
Schiller. Why would you go south? The [primary?] (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible)?

ML:

I don’t -- I think we went different places. Can I see those pictures? Because it’s
got different schools there.

JJ:

Right here?

ML:

Yeah. The top ones, uh-huh. ’Cause I have -- I think I have both schools here.
Nineteen fifty-nine, [00:11:00] I was at Lincoln School. Then 1960, I was at
Agassiz. So I came north.

JJ:

Oh, you went north.

ML:

North.

JJ:

A little north.

ML:

And then from there --

JJ:

So you were in Schiller first.

ML:

No, then from there we went to Schiller.

JJ:

Okay. So you went north, and then you went back the other way. ’Cause the
cheaper housing was the other way.

ML:

There were brand-new apartments, so that’s why we went there.

JJ:

Oh, you went to Schiller ’cause they were brand new.

ML:

Brand new, so we had a --

JJ:

Oh, okay. So actually, you were moving up. You were moving --

9

�ML:

We had a decent place to live, so we thought, but it wasn’t that decent.

JJ:

Why?

ML:

Because the neighborhood. It was all Blacks, and we didn’t know. It was like a
jungle to us.

JJ:

Okay. What do you mean, it was like a jungle to you?

ML:

Well, we had to fight in school also. We got ran -- they ran us home.

JJ:

So first you were being run home by the white groups.

ML:

Yes.

JJ:

[00:12:00] And now you’re being run home by the Black groups.

ML:

Yes.

JJ:

At that time. Okay.

ML:

So I had to arm myself with a pair of scissors, and a belt, and a needle, under -with the belt.

JJ:

Okay. Put the needle in the belt?

ML:

Right.

JJ:

Okay.

ML:

So they wouldn’t pick on me. But then I would laugh, because my girl friends
were getting run home, and then I -- I was walking, like, They’re not gonna touch
me, because I felt protected. I’m protecting myself, but I felt protected, because I
had a little scissors with me and a little needle and a belt. And then they left me
alone.

JJ:

When you pulled it out, they left you alone?

ML:

I didn’t. I never pulled it out.

10

�JJ:

Okay. You just felt stronger, tougher.

ML:

I felt protected, because I said, If anything happens, I’m not gonna let them get
the best of me, because they did beat me up at first. [00:13:00] I took a good
beating, and they made, like, a circle. And you would think it was a few kids. It
was like hundreds of kids kicking on you and everything, when you’re getting
beat up.

JJ:

And why do you think they were chasing you?

ML:

I didn’t think -- I think they didn’t like Hispanics.

JJ:

You think they didn’t like Hispanics?

ML:

I think it was a racial thing.

JJ:

Was it racial?

ML:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

Because you were just new -- going back there, it was new, and --

ML:

Well, we were the only -- you know, the only Hispanics around, very few. All of
them got beat up. I don’t know if it was the difference because of the color or
what, but I knew we took a good beating, and my brothers also.

JJ:

Now, after a while, did that stop or slow down, or it just kept going?

ML:

No, my father left. He moved back to the neighborhood [00:14:00] on Lincoln
Avenue.

JJ:

He moved back to Lincoln Avenue?

ML:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

So how long were you there in Schiller?

ML:

About a year.

11

�JJ:

Just a year, and then you moved back?

ML:

Yeah, it was rough.

JJ:

So that Schiller’s more like Old Town. That was Old Town.

ML:

Old Town, yeah.

JJ:

Right. So at that time, there were very few Puerto Ricans in that -- living there.

ML:

They wouldn’t last. There was a little girl that got killed. They threw, like, a
gallon of milk, which was glass, and dropped it from a tall floor right onto her
head. They hit her head, ’cause she was hanging by the balcony, and they killed
her.

JJ:

A Spanish girl?

ML:

A Spanish girl. Young girl, like an eight or nine, ten-year-old.

JJ:

And they were just playing around and throwing -- other kids playing around and
threw it and hit her.

ML:

Somebody threw it from a top floor and [00:15:00] got her head. Don’t know if it
was kids or what.

JJ:

Okay. But so [a lot of the?] Puerto Ricans were being beat up at that time in that
area. That’s what you said. Then you moved back to Lincoln Avenue?

ML:

Yes.

JJ:

Now, when you moved back, were there more Spanish people living then? What
year was this?

ML:

Lincoln Avenue? Then we took a fight with the Orientals, with
Chinos.(overlapping dialogue) Yeah.

JJ:

With Orientals? With Chinos? They were living in that area?

12

�ML:

They were living across the street from us. And they had a cleaners. Their
parents were -- they had a cleaners, Sun Cleaners. That’s the name of the
cleaners. Then there was another. I said, Okay. So I had to protect my
brothers, so I made up, like, a little -- for protection, I picked up a bunch of bricks,
[00:16:00] and I lined them up, because I knew they said that they were gonna
beat my brothers up. So I lined them up. I had a bunch of bricks, maybe 10, 12
bricks, and when they came, I said, “You come over here, I’m gonna throw these
bricks at you.” You know? “And I’m gonna really give you a fight.” Because my
brothers, they didn’t know English, either, that much. But I was learning. Then
they didn’t come. I didn’t have to use the bricks. They got scared, I guess.

JJ:

So you think some of this had to do because they didn’t know English, or...?

ML:

Could be, because at that time, they didn’t care about the Hispanics learning. I
noticed that the Japanese and the Chinese in the school, in the classrooms, they
had preference, and they had the best grades, [00:17:00] and they teached them
the best -- like French, they didn’t let me take French, because I had a language
barrier, so I couldn’t take it. And other classes that I already knew, they didn’t let
us take those classes, because they didn’t want us to get further knowledge.
And I noticed that they had a lot of preference with Orientals.

JJ:

So you had that problem with the Orientals that lived across the street?

ML:

That’s it, just across the street.

JJ:

And you also felt they had preference in the schools.

ML:

In school, yes, I noticed that.

JJ:

So you mentioned whites, and then you mentioned Blacks, then you mentioned

13

�Orientals.
ML:

(laughs) Yeah.

JJ:

So was the neighborhood like that, divided by race and...?

ML:

The neighborhood?

JJ:

Was it divided at all by race, or no?

ML:

No.

JJ:

Or nationalities?

ML:

It wasn’t. It wasn’t [00:18:00] divided.

JJ:

Just certain buildings and...?

ML:

That just happened, yeah.

JJ:

That just happened.

ML:

That just happened.

JJ:

Okay. Okay. But I mean, Cabrini-Green was mainly Black, African American.

ML:

Oh, yeah.

JJ:

So that -- so Puerto Ricans living there were not welcome at that time.

ML:

No.

JJ:

Although in some -- there was one project that was Latin, right, that was Spanish,
or no?

ML:

It was scattered. Very few Spanish, very few.

JJ:

Okay, in 1959, around this.

ML:

Nineteen sixty, ’62 or ’63, around there.

JJ:

Okay. So at that time, there were not very many Puerto Ricans living there.

ML:

No. My uncle, they gave my uncle a beating, because he went to play dominoes,

14

�and he didn’t know. I call him my uncle, but he wasn’t really my uncle. But he
was in the family. He was an older -- past 60, maybe 70. [00:19:00] And he liked
to play dominoes, so he used to go with his little box of dominoes to play at my
house. One day, they gave him a beating, and then he didn’t last long after that.
JJ:

This was by Cabrini-Green?

ML:

By Cabrini-Green.

JJ:

So he came to visit you at Cabrini-Green.

ML:

To visit to play dominoes, because he --

JJ:

And they caught him outside?

ML:

They caught him around -- somewhere around the neighborhood, Larrabee and
Division.

JJ:

Okay. And they beat him up, and they killed him, or...?

ML:

Well, he didn’t die right away, but he took a beating, and then he didn’t last long
after that. I don’t know how long he lasted, but it wasn’t too long.

JJ:

Was he drinking or something, or that --

ML:

No, he didn’t drink. He just -- he liked coffee.

JJ:

So you think they just beat him up because he was Spanish, and he --

ML:

Yeah, in that neighborhood. He didn’t know. He wasn’t aware of his
surroundings. Yeah.

JJ:

Okay. So you had to be aware of your surroundings?

ML:

In that area? Yeah. That was near Cooley High, all that area.

JJ:

[00:20:00] What does that mean, to be aware of your surroundings? What does
that mean?

15

�ML:

Well, to know the neighborhood, to know what kind of difficulties you’re gonna
face about crime. You don’t know who’s gonna -- you always gotta watch your
back. You don’t know if they’re gonna beat you up or pull a knife, at that time. I
don’t think they had guns at that time. But -- or just take a beating. You have to
always watch out, at night, especially.

JJ:

So it has to do with your time of day, and it’s at nighttime?

ML:

Well, not really the time of day. It could have happened anytime. But mostly at
night. That’s when most crimes happen anyway.

JJ:

And you knew that. You [00:21:00] knew that from experience, or...?

ML:

Well, yeah, because my father kept us inside. He said, “Don’t you go out.” You
know, we were kids anyway, but he wasn’t even -- he didn’t even go outside after
dark, because one time, they threw a stone at him, too, and got him by the leg or
something, a stone or a rock, whatever, got him by the leg.

JJ:

So part of your growing up meant being trained how to act outside.

ML:

It was natural instinct. We didn’t get trained. We just knew. You know? It was
fear. Yeah, we didn’t really get any training.

JJ:

And so you felt that when you walked outside --

ML:

We just felt it. Mm-hmm.

JJ:

You felt that you had to walk around, watch out. Who’s this person and that
person?

ML:

Right.

JJ:

Okay. So that was part of growing up there in Old Town, in the Old Town.

ML:

Right. It was just natural instinct, you know. [00:22:00] You were the prey,

16

�period.
JJ:

Okay. So now you went to Schiller. You went back to by Schiller Street. But
then after that, where did you go after that?

ML:

Came back to Lincoln Avenue.

JJ:

And where did you go to school there?

ML:

Agassiz.

JJ:

So Agassiz.

ML:

And then I graduated at Agassiz.

JJ:

May I see that picture [and what’s in it?]? So that picture --

ML:

Is that Lincoln or Agassiz? Here’s Agassiz.

JJ:

Oh, that’s Agassiz right there? Okay. So this picture here is primarily -- it’s
mostly -- I see a few Latino faces, but it’s mostly a white school at that time?

ML:

Yes. Let’s see.

JJ:

Okay. So how was -- there are at least more -- you know, there’s a few Latinos
in there, right, [00:23:00] but it’s mostly white?

ML:

[Not?] many. You see that?

JJ:

You had many Latinos? (inaudible) all white.

ML:

There’s one, two -- there’s only two.

JJ:

Only two Latinos?

ML:

Two Latinos.

JJ:

And what are the rest? What nationality are the rest, do you think?

ML:

Well, they could be German. There’s a Oriental girl there. German, Irish.
Maybe German and Irish and --

17

�JJ:

So it was more mixed. That area was more mixed.

ML:

Yeah, more Europeans.

JJ:

More Europeans, but it was more mixed. But how did you feel?

ML:

In this class?

JJ:

Yeah.

ML:

[00:24:00] I felt -- because I was older than these kids, because they lowered my
grade.

JJ:

Oh, they lowered your grade? Why? Why did they do that?

ML:

Because of the language barrier, they lowered my grade. See the difference?

JJ:

Did they do that to other people, or...?

ML:

I was here. What’s -- two-A. Then they raised me -- see the same year? From
one year difference? Then they raised me to four-B.

JJ:

So they raised you. They didn’t lower you.

ML:

They didn’t lower me, because I was already -- I’m in four, but in Puerto Rico, I
was going to study fifth grade already, so they lowered me when I came here to
second grade.

JJ:

Oh, so you went from fifth grade to second grade.

ML:

To second grade.

JJ:

And then they moved you back up to fourth?

ML:

Fourth. So I’m still missing some years. I graduated late.

JJ:

So you kind of went jumping around different levels.

ML:

Different levels. So, you know.

JJ:

How did you feel about [00:25:00] that?

18

�ML:

Well, I felt like I didn’t belong there, ’cause I was older than those kids, so -- but I
still went. You know? I went to school every day. Then I had to change my
name, because they called me Maria instead of Marta. My name is Marta, and
they called Maria, and I never said -- I didn’t say present, because they didn’t call
my name. So one day, the teacher put a bunch of absentees. She said, “You’ve
been absent for this and that and that.” And I said, “What?” I said, “I’ve been
here.” She said, “I called your name, Maria, and you never answered.” I said,
“Because my name is not Maria. My name is Marta.” So she was gonna fail me
for some classes for that, and then I said, Well, only one thing to do. This is me
as a kid, [00:26:00] thinking. I’m gonna change my name. So instead of Marta, I
put Martha. I added an H. And then from then on, I wasn’t absent anymore.
And my name’s been Martha ever since.

JJ:

Okay. So you still changed your name, because they didn’t --

ML:

I changed it myself.

JJ:

Changed it to English. Okay. But they could relate to Martha, because that was
more English.

ML:

Right. Mm-hmm.

JJ:

Okay. You had to change your name. Okay. So they put you down in grade.
You felt kind of bad, because you were down in the grade. How old were you
around that time? Do you remember, or...?

ML:

How old?

JJ:

Yeah. Fifth grade, or --

ML:

When they lowered?

19

�JJ:

Yeah. Well, I mean, when you were in fifth grade, what was -- so --

ML:

When I was nine and a half, I was gonna study fifth grade in Puerto Rico, and
then I was brought here.

JJ:

Okay, so that was the same year, basically.

ML:

Nineteen [00:27:00] fifty-eight.

JJ:

Nineteen fifty-eight. Okay. So what do you remember of that area at that time,
and what was going on in that area? I mean, were you just staying at home, or
what were you doing?

ML:

Where I lived?

JJ:

Yeah.

ML:

Or where I went to school?

JJ:

Where you lived by Agassiz. What was that area like?

ML:

It was goo-- it was better.

JJ:

It was better?

ML:

We stayed home. Walked the streets a little bit. There was a playground. Used
to go up to the playground and play, on Wrightwood and Lincoln. It was real -you know, because I didn’t see a lot of conflicts there. It was, like, more free.
You were able to walk the streets and be more free.

JJ:

And your father, how did he feel, your father (inaudible)?

ML:

Oh, he was happy. Plus it was closer to [00:28:00] work.

JJ:

For his job?

ML:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

So he was pretty happy, and he felt that you were in a safe area.

20

�ML:

Safer area.

JJ:

So the neighborhood begins to change, right, in ’58 and ’59? That neighborhood
starts changing? Or when did it start changing more Puerto Rican?

ML:

There were more -- a lot more Latinos coming around that time around that area.

JJ:

So do you stay hanging around the playground, or...?

ML:

Oh, yeah.

JJ:

So that became like a center for you, the playground, or no?

ML:

A little, yeah, for recreation and that, playing baseball and stuff.

JJ:

Were more Puerto Rican -- where you played baseball?

ML:

And -- well, my brothers did.

JJ:

Was it league ball or softball?

ML:

No, no, just --

JJ:

Softball, the big softball?

ML:

Just among our -- you know, themselves, playing softball.

JJ:

Because they used to have [00:29:00] the big one, right, the 16-inch?

ML:

Right. But no league or anything.

JJ:

But everybody played the 16-inch ball (inaudible) --

ML:

Right.

JJ:

-- all your brothers and that? Were they part of a group or anything, your
brothers?

ML:

No, no. My brothers were not part of anything.

JJ:

But did they have a team?

ML:

No team. Just relatives got together and stuff and played.

21

�JJ:

And they played right there. Okay. But the neighborhood was white, and now
it’s changing more Spanish, no? Did that create any problems? Or it didn’t
change?

ML:

No, it was mixed. It was all mixed.

JJ:

It was always mixed. Okay. So you didn’t experience any problems with any
other races?

ML:

No.

JJ:

Except when you were younger, when you first got there. Then everybody got
along after --

ML:

Right.

JJ:

Okay. But did it increase in Spanish people, or no?

ML:

No, it was not too many Hispanics around this area.

JJ:

Okay. So it was always like that.

ML:

Yeah, very few. You could [00:30:00] count them. Yep.

JJ:

Okay. So how long did you stay in Agassiz?

ML:

I stayed there till I graduated, 1964.

JJ:

Okay, 1964? And then -- so what grades were you in? Fifth, sixth, seventh,
eighth?

ML:

I went from fourth to, what, was that eighth? Eighth grade.

JJ:

To eighth. Did you graduate in eighth, or did you go to Arnold --

ML:

No, I didn’t go to Arnold.

JJ:

-- Upper Grade Center? No? So you went from Agassiz to Waller?

ML:

Right.

22

�JJ:

Okay. So, okay. So now there was no problems at school? You got along very
well with everybody?

ML:

At Waller?

JJ:

In the Agassiz.

ML:

I got along, but we didn’t really make friends. I didn’t have friends. [00:31:00] My
friends were my brothers.

JJ:

Okay. Why didn’t you make friends with the other girls that were there?

ML:

Because we didn’t fit in.

JJ:

I don’t understand, because you were speaking English?

ML:

Because I’m Spanish. I’m trying to learn English. We’re Spanish. I didn’t have
any friends.

JJ:

Oh, you were trying to learn English then.

ML:

Right. But I didn’t have any friends. I don’t know if --

JJ:

Were you just not friendly, was that you, or...?

ML:

No, I guess I didn’t fit in. I don’t know, but we didn’t have any --

JJ:

Did you have Spanish friends? Well, you had your brothers.

ML:

My brothers. That’s it.

JJ:

Okay, you didn’t have -- okay. Because you were kept at home.

ML:

Right.

JJ:

I mean, is that -- am I putting words, or -- were you kept at home because you
were female, or --

ML:

No, my brothers, too.

JJ:

Oh, they were being kept at home.

23

�ML:

Oh, yeah.

JJ:

So that’s why you were -- because everybody was at home all the time. But you
had other relatives, though, that would visit?

ML:

Oh, yeah. I had uncles.

JJ:

Okay. So [00:32:00] you were closer to family and your brothers.

ML:

Right.

JJ:

Basically, you didn’t really make any outside friends.

ML:

Not many.

JJ:

Because your mother and father wanted you in the house.

ML:

Right. Well, they worked. You know, they labored. We went to bed early. They
put us to bed early, around 8:30, 8:00 or 9:00.

JJ:

Okay. And you babysat each other, right, or did you have a babysitter?

ML:

Well, my father took care of us. We didn’t babysit each other. He was always
there. It was either him or my mother. So, you know.

JJ:

So there was always somebody there.

ML:

Yeah.

JJ:

Okay. And you stayed mostly at your home while you were at Agassiz. Okay.
So now you’re in Waller, right? How far did you go to Waller?

ML:

Well, it was about a mile.

JJ:

Okay. No, I mean how far in years?

ML:

Twelfth grade.

JJ:

You graduated from Waller? Okay. [00:33:00] Okay. Well, tell me about Waller.

ML:

I don’t have the pictures, though. I don’t know what happened to them. I lost

24

�them.
JJ:

You know, maybe just tell me what --

ML:

Waller?

JJ:

-- the first day you went to --

ML:

Another merry-go-round. (laughter) Then we had a lot of Latinos going in there.
I was a freshy.

JJ:

Now, you had to take the bus to get there, right?

ML:

Huh?

JJ:

You had to take the bus?

ML:

Took the bus, and sometimes I walked.

JJ:

Okay. But it was a merry-go-round, another merry-go-round?

ML:

That was another -- then they had the whites, the Blacks, and the Latinos. But
then they had the Latinos that were in higher grades, so they would go against
the ones that were in lower grades, like the freshies, and throw pennies, and --

JJ:

What do you mean, throw pennies? What do you mean?

ML:

Throw pennies at the freshies.

JJ:

Oh, just throw them at you.

ML:

Yeah, because you’re a freshy.

JJ:

So they hit the freshies with the pennies?

ML:

Right. [00:34:00] And then they didn’t like them. They didn’t welcome the
freshies, because, you know, we were new, and we were dumb, and stuff. We
didn’t know what’s going on. So then we had to form our own little group.

JJ:

So Latinos throwing at other Latinos.

25

�ML:

Yeah.

JJ:

So that means there were a lot of Latinos there --

ML:

Yeah.

JJ:

-- at Waller. Okay. But, I mean, it was a mixed school, but there were a lot of
Latinos.

ML:

Right.

JJ:

What -- Puerto Rican --

ML:

The girls with the different hairdos and stuff.

JJ:

Puerto Rican, Mexican, what, you know?

ML:

No, more Puerto Rican.

JJ:

At that time? Okay.

ML:

Yeah.

JJ:

All right. And you said the girls with the what?

ML:

Different hairdos and stuff.

JJ:

What kind of hairdos? What kind? What do you mean?

ML:

Teasing their hair. Teased-up hair.

JJ:

Beehives? None of that? Is that what they call it?

ML:

I don’t know what they call them, but --

JJ:

When it’s round or something?

ML:

Yeah, real -- I don’t know. I guess they got teased hair or something.

JJ:

Teased hair? [00:35:00] Okay. Because this was the sixties, so they were
teasing their hair.

ML:

Yeah, teased their hair.

26

�JJ:

Afros, like, or something like that, or...?

ML:

No, no afros.

JJ:

Okay, not at that time. You’re talking about what year (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible)?

ML:

Oh, that’s ’64.

JJ:

In ’64, you were in Waller?

ML:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

Okay.

ML:

So they’d throw pennies at us. And then they had boyfriends. They were after
their guy, keeping an eye on their guys and stuff. So anyway --

JJ:

And the freshies were after their guys, too.

ML:

(laughter) I guess so. Anyway, we had to form our own group of friends.

JJ:

What was your group?

ML:

No, just friends, because we were freshies, so we’d form our own groups and
stuff.

JJ:

So did you form your group according to the neighborhood you came from, or
just --

ML:

No, just in the -- that was the first time ever --

JJ:

The class, or the classroom you were in?

ML:

-- I ever started a group. [00:36:00] No, just -- no, we started our little group
together, you know, hanging out, friends hanging around.

JJ:

Who was in your group? Do you remember?

ML:

Just my friend [Shelley?], [Daisy?], [Gladys?]. We had our own -- [Maria?]. Girls

27

�-- you know, we just got together and we hung around together, because don’t
forget, there was the Black girls, too. And they would pull our hairs. They were
jealous and stuff, so they’d pull our hairs and start something.
JJ:

So they had a group, too, then, the Black girls.

ML:

The Blacks?

JJ:

Had a group too.

ML:

Of course. They were together.

JJ:

So were the groups based on -- were they mostly, like, nationality? Like, they
would have Puerto Rican girls, and then they had Black girls, and Irish girls,
Italian girls? Was it like that, or...?

ML:

I don’t know. What I noticed [00:37:00] is that we had our group, and the Blacks,
I don’t know what kind of group --

JJ:

What was your group? Were they mostly Puerto Rican, you group?

ML:

Puerto Ricans.

JJ:

All Puerto Ricans?

ML:

All Puerto Ricans.

JJ:

That’s what I mean. So you had all Puerto Ricans and all Blacks.

ML:

Right. But it wasn’t because we were fighting the Blacks. We were fighting our
own nationality. (laughs)

JJ:

You were fighting your own nationality.

ML:

Our own nationality.

JJ:

Other Puerto Rican groups?

ML:

Other Puerto Ricans, because of the grades, higher grades, lower grades.

28

�JJ:

So the freshies were fighting the seniors, and --

ML:

Not really fighting. Just, you know.

JJ:

Harassing?

ML:

Harassing and stuff, yeah.

JJ:

And one of the things was throwing pennies. And what else? What (inaudible)?

ML:

That’s all. Throwing pennies and saying words, like, “You’re a dummy,” and
stuff. Nothing really, really bad, you know.

JJ:

Nothing really bad? Okay. Now --

ML:

But I never got into a fight or anything at school [00:38:00] at Waller.

JJ:

Were there a lot of these little groups, or a few of them, or not that many?

ML:

I don’t remember if there was any. All I remember is our group. You know, who
you hung around with. Like all the other girls, they were, like -- they say the word
orgullosa.

JJ:

Okay, orgullosa.

ML:

How would you say that? Too much pride?

JJ:

Proud? Too much pride?

ML:

Yeah. Orgullosa to go against, you know, the way you were.

JJ:

Now you were already speaking English pretty good, though, right?

ML:

Well, somewhat.

JJ:

Somewhat. Did some people have accents, or did you notice that, or no?

ML:

Didn’t notice much the accents, because when you’re -- you know, you’re a kid.
You pick it up pretty fast, and you start [00:39:00] speaking the language.

JJ:

Did your parents have accents?

29

�ML:

Yeah.

JJ:

They had accents? Okay.

ML:

They didn’t speak much.

JJ:

But they understood. So they didn’t speak much English, but they understood it.

ML:

Well, I don’t think they understood, either.

JJ:

They didn’t understand much? (laughter)

ML:

No, no. They didn’t understand that much.

JJ:

But they acted like they understood [so they didn’t know?]?

ML:

No. They knew that they didn’t know the language. They knew.

JJ:

So you were like their translator, or...?

ML:

Oh, no. My mother went to school, and she took a couple of classes. I don’t
remember my father going, but my mother did. English classes.

JJ:

Okay, she took some English classes. Okay. So this is 1964. You’re moving up
in Waller. How is Waller changing during that time? What do you remember at
Waller? [00:40:00] How was your studying and stuff? Did you like it, or what do
you remember?

ML:

I liked it, but like I said, keeping up with the grades and that wasn’t that easy.

JJ:

Were there just too much things to do, or that people didn’t want to focus on
school, or...?

ML:

Well, I usually cut a lot of classes, because I didn’t feel like I belonged there,
either. I used to cut, especially the study periods. That’s what I used to cut. I
don’t know if you remember Mr. [Scoltise?]? He used to be there, a teacher.

JJ:

I remember study group, but I don’t remember --

30

�ML:

Study group. Yeah, we liked that one, because we used to cut, and he didn’t
really pay attention to -- [00:41:00] he didn’t take --

JJ:

Attendance?

ML:

-- any -- what do you call?

JJ:

Attendance?

ML:

Attendance. So we used to cut.

JJ:

And so you cut. Where did you go to?

ML:

Oh, we used to go by Lincoln Park, by the canoes, where they -- those boats, like
in the summertime.

JJ:

By the (inaudible)?

ML:

Yeah. Get in those boats, and then get out the little boat, and go onto that little
island. Yeah. Once in a while. We didn’t do that often. But when it got warm,
that’s where we were.

JJ:

Yeah, ’cause the park is right there. Lincoln Park is right there. Okay. What
about -- weren’t there neighborhood groups at that time, in ’64, ’65? Weren’t
there, like, the Black Angels and the --

ML:

We didn’t see any groups.

JJ:

-- the (inaudible) [Aces?], or [your Queens?]? You didn’t see any of those?

ML:

We didn’t see any groups. All I remember is seeing the sweaters.

JJ:

[00:42:00] Oh, so you did see the sweaters.

ML:

That they wore. And then it was announced. Whenever there was gonna be a
fight or something, it was announced, and I just ran and took the bus home.

JJ:

What do you mean it was announced?

31

�ML:

They announced -- somehow we knew that they were gonna have a gang fight. I
don’t know.

JJ:

Is this kind of word of mouth?

ML:

Word of mouth.

JJ:

But everybody knew, all the Latinos.

ML:

Right. We were aware.

JJ:

Were Latinos fighting Latinos, or what was --?

ML:

No, they were not fighting Latinos. I think they were fighting other gangs.

JJ:

Other gangs that were around at the time?

ML:

Uh-huh. That came from different areas.

JJ:

To that school to fight?

ML:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

And you would know it, and right away, you would get on the bus and --

ML:

Right.

JJ:

So there was another reason to cut school, then, no?

ML:

To cut school? No, not really.

JJ:

Okay. So you didn’t -- you weren’t --

ML:

No. I went to the classes. Just some classes that I cut, you know, [00:43:00] like
the study periods. All the other classes I made.

JJ:

So instead of hanging around after school, when you knew there was a gang
fight, you would hurry up and get on the bus.

ML:

Hurry up and get out.

JJ:

And get outta there, ’cause -- would people get cut up, or beat up, or --

32

�ML:

Never know. I never really been in between the gang, but I guess there would be
blood.

JJ:

Was there blood? I mean, I’m just --

ML:

I’ve never seen it.

JJ:

Okay. You never saw it.

ML:

No.

JJ:

But people didn’t want to be around when there was a gang fight.

ML:

Oh, no. Who wants to be around when there’s fighting, you know?

JJ:

Right.

ML:

We took off.

JJ:

You said you saw the sweater. What color sweaters?

ML:

I think I remember like a purple.

JJ:

A purple?

ML:

Purple.

JJ:

Black and purple? That was the Young Lords.

ML:

Could be.

JJ:

And then you had black and pink was the (inaudible).

ML:

Black and pink, yeah.

JJ:

But you remember the black and purple ones?

ML:

Mm-hmm. And what el-- black and [00:44:00] pink?

JJ:

Black and pink was the Imperial Gangsters. Then you had black and white was
the Eagles.

ML:

Eagles. I remember vaguely, vaguely, you know. I remember the sweaters,

33

�though.
JJ:

Because these people used to throw dances, too. (inaudible) dances?

ML:

No, I wasn’t allowed.

JJ:

You weren’t allowed to go to the dance? Did you go to any school dances?

ML:

Never. My father wouldn’t let us.

JJ:

You couldn’t ever go to the dance?

ML:

No.

JJ:

Well, because of the church he belonged to, right? They didn’t believe in
dancing?

ML:

No, not necessarily. It’s just that he knew that it wasn’t good -- you know, the
area wasn’t that good, so we never went.

JJ:

So what kind of stuff did you do for recreation?

ML:

Oh, we watched a lot of television, played dominoes. My father had family come
over. Just mainly with the family.

JJ:

Mainly with the family? And was there a lot of family? Did you have a lot of
family?

ML:

Oh, yeah. We had a lot of family. [00:45:00] Uncles -- mainly uncles. Aunts,
uncles, but mainly uncles that came over. My mom’s brothers, they usually come
over, and she used to cook. I used to help her. They would come and visit and
hang out, play a little domino, drink a little cup of coffee or whatever. At that
time, nobody drank. It was mainly coffee.

JJ:

So just mainly coffee then?

ML:

Yeah.

34

�JJ:

Your family didn’t drink?

ML:

Now you go to somebody’s house, and they ask you, “Do you want a drink?”
Well, mainly in the sixties -- I mean, in the seventies, instead of giving you coffee,
they started giving you drink. “You want a drink?” You know, liquor.

JJ:

But before that, it was just coffee.

ML:

Before, it was, like, coffee.

JJ:

And stuff like that.

ML:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

Okay.

ML:

By the seventies we had -- that’s where everybody started, like, [00:46:00]
boozing, you know, and drinking.

JJ:

What do you mean? Why was that? Why did they start boozing at that time in
the seventies?

ML:

Well, I guess everybody -- you know, they were not kids anymore, all the kids
that came from Puerto Rico. They were teenagers and stuff, or not teenage.
They were almost past teenagers. So they were free to drink, so then they were
drinking. And not only that, there was marijuana. They were doing marijuana
and booze, and who knows what else. A lot of dope.

JJ:

A lot of that dope at that time?

ML:

Yeah, but mainly marijuana.

JJ:

Because that was the late sixties. You’re talking about the late sixties?

ML:

Well, and the beginning of the seventies. Seventies. I don’t know if you
remember the hippie era. You remember that?

35

�JJ:

Right. So that was the hippie era?

ML:

That was towards the end of [00:47:00] the sixties, about ’67. Sixty-six, ’67,
around there. Hippie era. That’s when the hippie era came, and then the whites
turned hippie. Then they started drafting people, so they draft the Blacks and
they draft the Puerto Ricans, and the whites stayed behind, and they turned
hippie. Right? So they had to go -- the Latinos had to go and the Blacks went,
and the lower-class whites went, like the hillbillies. But not the ones that -- not
the whites. They went hippie. And I remember that era. I don’t know if you ever
-- did you ever go to Lincoln Park when that was full of people, full of hippies?

JJ:

The demonstrations, you mean, that they had?

ML:

[00:48:00] Yeah. Not only demonstration. Everybody was a hippie, and they
have the long hair. I believe they did that to keep from going to the war, which
was Vietnam coming up.

JJ:

To get away from the war?

ML:

To get away. I think they were told to do stuff like that to keep going from the
war, the whites. Mm-hmm.

JJ:

So that was the era of the hippies, the anti-war --

ML:

That’s when they turned hippie.

JJ:

-- anti-war movement that they had, or --

ML:

Right.

JJ:

Okay. And that affected the neighborhood too?

ML:

No, it didn’t. Well, no, not really. You know? Just when I was curious and I just
went to the -- they were quiet people. They didn’t want to go to the war. That’s

36

�one thing that kept them from going. But they were quiet, and they didn’t bother
anybody. I didn’t see any fights or anything. They were kinda [00:49:00] mellow,
because they were full of grass, you know?
JJ:

So there was a lot of grass going around.

ML:

Oh, in the park, all over.

JJ:

Did you ever smoke any grass?

ML:

No. Thank God. Knock on wood. (Spanish) [00:49:15].

JJ:

She doesn’t want to admit it, huh? You don’t --

ML:

Huh?

JJ:

You don’t want to admit it? Is that what he’s asking?

ML:

No, because he’s looking over here. (laughter) No, we didn’t. No. My brothers,
they did. I think my brother [Nicky?] got a hold of it.

JJ:

But a lot of the women that you knew did not -- they weren’t doing that.

ML:

No. They didn’t smoke that.

JJ:

But the guys did.

ML:

I think it was more of a guy thing.

JJ:

At that time?

ML:

At that time. My husband, he didn’t like it either. He’d rather drink. I like the way
-- (Spanish) [00:49:58] laughing over here, [00:50:00] though. Crack me up. No,
because, you know, my father -- we didn’t even drink in our house.

JJ:

Okay. He didn’t drink either?

ML:

My father? No. He did that when he was young.

JJ:

When he was young? Okay.

37

�ML:

In Puerto Rico. But it wasn’t for him, so --

JJ:

But did he get in trouble with it, or he just decided not to drink? You know, some
people they drink a lot, and they quit, and then they never drink again. Was that
--

ML:

No, he just -- you know, he had five of us to raise, so he came over here, and
boozing wasn’t gonna be for him, so that’s when he looked into the religion. But
alcohol did not go well with him. He would go, like, crazy when he drank.

JJ:

Oh, okay. So that’s why -- so that was the reason that he stopped?

ML:

Right. But he wasn’t even really, really an alcoholic.

JJ:

He wasn’t an alcoholic. He just said it didn’t go well.

ML:

It didn’t go well with him.

JJ:

Okay. [00:51:00] And he told you that that’s why he stopped?

ML:

No, he just didn’t pick it up anymore. He went to church, took us to church.

JJ:

He was in the church, so you never really saw him drinking a lot.

ML:

No. He couldn’t tolerate it.

JJ:

Okay. But your brothers, they liked it a little bit?

ML:

Oh, yeah. Especially -- yeah. They all did. They all drank. I drank myself, but I
didn’t really care for it either. But, you know, everywhere you went was, “You
want a drink? You want this?” You know? A lot of little parties going on. And
there was booze.

JJ:

In people’s houses, or -- the parties?

ML:

Yeah.

JJ:

So I mean, like, were you going to the baptisms and the quinceañera?

38

�ML:

No, this was, like, teenage -- you know, not -- we were past teenagers, but like
my brothers, they had their own apartments, and you’d go over there and hang
out. [00:52:00] Bring some friends, hang out, and they’d be drinking and stuff.
Little parties at home. They would come to my place.

JJ:

So this was in the seventies, or...?

ML:

Seventies, yeah.

JJ:

Okay. So they would come to your place, and you would have parties in there?

ML:

Mm-hmm, we had parties there.

JJ:

So you had to drink a little bit for a little bit.

ML:

Yeah, I did.

JJ:

Okay, you did drink?

ML:

Yeah, and my husband, he loved drinking.

JJ:

Beer, or...?

ML:

He liked beer.

JJ:

Okay. And you drank beer? That was it?

ML:

A little bit. I couldn’t tolerate it much either. But I did drink for a little while.

JJ:

But nothing heavy.

ML:

But then when I saw that it wasn’t for me, and I said, Nah, this is not for me, so I
said, Forget it. So I don’t drink.

JJ:

Okay. So now when did you get married?

ML:

I got married in 1972.

JJ:

Okay, so it was early, ’72? So were you finished with high school by then?
[00:53:00 You had finished high school already.

39

�ML:

Yes. I finished high school in 1968.

JJ:

And where were you working at?

ML:

I was working at Saint Joseph Hospital.

JJ:

Oh, yeah, that’s right. Okay.

ML:

I worked there for about nine and a half years.

JJ:

Did you have any children?

ML:

No children.

JJ:

No children? Okay. By choice, or --

ML:

Couldn’t have any children. No, I couldn’t have them, and then my husband
couldn’t have them either, because they sprayed the veterans with that Agent
Orange, so couldn’t have ’em, so just stopped trying.

JJ:

Is that what they told him, that because of the Agent Orange, you --

ML:

Oh, no. They never admitted that he was sprayed. But they sprayed the
veterans with that chemical. The government never admits to that, but they did.
And that really destroyed a lot of soldiers. They’re gettin’ [00:54:00] destroyed
right now. They get a lot of different cancers, different forms of diseases, mainly
cancers. But my husband got one called scleroderma, and that destroyed him. It
destroys the whole immune system. And that’s what he died from. He caught
lupus, hypertension of the lungs, a lot of different diseases, diabetes, thyroid
problem, everything. Then at the end, it was renal failure. And it’s all due to that
spray that they sprayed over there.

JJ:

That Agent Orange.

ML:

It’s Agent Orange, but the real word is -- the chemical [00:55:00] word is dioxin.

40

�Plus other stuff that they put these soldiers through that they never say. They
get injected and everything [if he didn’t?] fight. That’s why when they come back,
they get that shell shock, and they want to kill somebody. So that was another
era where I had a struggle with my husband.
JJ:

What do you mean?

ML:

Well, because he was -- he used to get, like, posttraumatic from the army,
flashbacks. So I had to be aware at all times what was gonna happen, if he was
gonna pick up a gun or somethin’, or shoot me, or whatever, which I never did
see any guns, but he did mention seven guns that he had in the house or hiding
somewhere. But I never saw them. But then towards the end, when he passed,
it wasn’t seven guns. It was seven [00:56:00] medals that he had earned from
the army, but never a gun. Yeah. It’s sad, but that’s what they did to those poor
men. Yep.

JJ:

So it affected -- the war affected him. But you were married before he went to
the war, or...?

ML:

No.

JJ:

It was after he came back.

ML:

He came back 1969. Seventy-two, we got married.

JJ:

Then in ’72, you got married? Did you know him before he went?

ML:

No.

JJ:

Okay.

ML:

It was a blind date. Met him on a blind date. And what a blind date. (laughter)
Oh, yeah.

41

�JJ:

[00:57:00] So you stayed married to him for how long?

ML:

Almost 36 years.

JJ:

That’s good. Congratulations.

ML:

Yeah.

JJ:

So you never were married before or anything like that?

ML:

No.

JJ:

Your only marriage was to him. Okay.

ML:

Yep.

JJ:

And you said he recently passed away, you said?

ML:

He passed, what, 2008. Two-oh-eight. That’s when he passed. October 25,
2008.

JJ:

October 25th? Was his family from Arecibo, too, or no?

ML:

Yes.

JJ:

Oh, so even though you didn’t meet before, did your family know their family,
or...?

ML:

No. Different sections.

JJ:

Of Arecibo.

ML:

Different barrios, uh-huh.

JJ:

[00:58:00] Actually, my sister lives in Camuy, which is not too far from there.

ML:

From Arecibo?

JJ:

From Camuy, yeah, it’s not too far from Arecibo. I mean, a little further west.

ML:

I wouldn’t know, because I just went back only a couple of times to Puerto Rico,
two or three times.

42

�JJ:

Okay. So you were born there, and you came when -- how old were you? Nine,
you said?

ML:

Nine and a half.

JJ:

And then you went back when?

ML:

I went back in the eighties for my father and mother. They moved back over
there in 1978, I believe.

JJ:

Okay. And for how long were you there?

ML:

They were there till about 1995, around there.

JJ:

Oh, so, like, 10 years.

ML:

They stayed a long time there.

JJ:

And you stayed with them?

ML:

Oh, no. I was living here.

JJ:

So you came back. You just went with them for --

ML:

I just went to visit.

JJ:

Okay, and then you came back?

ML:

Came back, and I went back and forth a couple of more times.

JJ:

[00:59:00] Okay. Each time was like a couple weeks at a time?

ML:

I took a good vacation for two and a half month to Puerto Rico, and one week to
Florida. I went with my grandmother.

JJ:

Okay. So while your parents were there, you were with your grandmother over
here?

ML:

No, no, I was living with my husband.

JJ:

Okay.

43

�ML:

Yeah. I was living with him. And I took off for two and a half month.

JJ:

Okay. So you really -- so your community’s more here than over there, or no? I
mean, you feel more comfortable here than there, than in Puerto Rico, or how --

ML:

Yes, because in Puerto Rico, you know, I don’t know much about Puerto Rico,
and I don’t drive over there, so traveling -- you know, getting back and forth
would be a little hard. And being a woman isn’t easy either.

JJ:

No, [01:00:00] [not in Puerto Rico?].

ML:

No. So I feel better over here.

JJ:

You feel better over here?

ML:

Yeah, more safety.

JJ:

And this neighborhood hasn’t really changed that much, right?

ML:

This neighborhood? Yeah. There’s a lot of yuppies.

JJ:

Now?

ML:

Okay, that moved over here.

JJ:

But I mean, it was always mixed. I mean, you know, right?

ML:

It’s mostly whites.

JJ:

Mostly whites?

ML:

Mostly whites.

JJ:

So I mean, what I’m saying is, you don’t really -- it hasn’t really changed that
much for you at that time when it was mixed.

ML:

Oh, no, it’s the same thing, just about.

JJ:

So that’s why you feel more at home where you’re living. Do you still live in the
area, or no?

44

�ML:

Yeah, I live around -- it’s called North Center area, but it’s Lakeview. It’s North
Center. Yeah, [01:01:00] I know the areas and stuff. But --

JJ:

But these people you grew up with, they’re not around?

ML:

They’re not around. They’re all gone.

JJ:

So how do you feel about that? ’Cause that’s, like, your whole community that’s
gone.

ML:

I don’t know, because I was usually on my own anyway. You know? So --

JJ:

So it didn’t affect you?

ML:

It doesn’t affect me. You have to learn to survive and make it on your own.

JJ:

But okay, it doesn’t affect you personally, but what about -- how do you feel that
Puerto Ricans were kicked out of that whole area?

ML:

I never knew they were kicked out.

JJ:

Oh, they weren’t kicked out? Okay.

ML:

I don’t think so. They just moved on. Moved on with their lives.

JJ:

Okay. Okay. [01:02:00] Okay. I’m putting words (laughs) in your mouth. So
they weren’t kicked out. They just moved on.

ML:

Yeah, I don’t think so. You know? They just went on, you know, different phases
of life. You have to face it, you know? I don’t think the Puerto Ricans were ever
kicked out. You know?

JJ:

Yeah, yeah. So why do you think the neighborhood changed? I mean, you just
think that they just moved on, or...?

ML:

Why’d the neighborhood change? I think it changed for the better. You don’t see
much -- you know, people fighting around here, so it changed for the better.

45

�JJ:

And there was a lot of fighting at that time?

ML:

Not even around here, no, not too much. Mainly over --

JJ:

At Waller?

ML:

Waller, but not around here.

JJ:

So it’s good that it changed. Now there’s no more fights at Waller and that?

ML:

Well, I don’t know if they have fights there, [01:03:00] ’cause I haven’t been there
since when? It’s called Lincoln Park School now.

JJ:

Right, Lincoln Park High.

ML:

I don’t know if they’re fighting, but who knows what’s going on in school now?

JJ:

So what you feel is basically that Puerto Ricans have lifted themselves up in
Chicago?

ML:

Yes.

JJ:

Okay. And how is that? Is that -- how have they done that?

ML:

Well, they bettered themselves.

JJ:

I mean, what sort of things did they do to better themselves?

ML:

Well, the parents work hard, that’s for sure, and then they gave knowledge to
their kids. Whatever knowledge they acquired is what helped them move
forward.

JJ:

Okay. So it was the parents that worked hard that had a --

ML:

It was the parents that worked hard that put us --

JJ:

Okay.

ML:

To better educate us.

JJ:

So the Puerto Rican families that you knew were hard workers --

46

�ML:

[01:04:00] Yes.

JJ:

-- and they pushed their kids, and their kids moved on --

ML: Moved on with their lives -JJ:

-- and they improved themselves.

ML:

-- and got educated.

JJ:

Okay. There was no discrimination to you whatsoever?

ML:

Discrimination with --?

JJ:

Puerto Ricans at all, or other poor people, or no?

ML:

The only discrimination was that, you know, when we went to school and stuff.

JJ:

When you were younger, just at school and stuff like that.

ML:

School.

JJ:

Okay. So that’s really -- the discrimination was that.

ML:

That’s it. But there’s always discrimination. There’s a lot of people that, you
know, they put the Puerto Ricans down. And one told me, “Oh, Puerto Ricans
are drug addicts.” And I stopped him, and I said, “Why do you say that? Drugs
come from all over the world. You know?” Then he got a little bit -- and he said,
“Where are you from?” [01:05:00] And I said, “I’m from Puerto Rico.” And he
said, “Well, if you like it here so much, why don’t you go back?” But then, you
know, I got a little bit -- I stopped. I calmed down, and he took off. But I was
gonna tell him, “You gotta do some studying, because the Puerto Ricans are
American.” They just don’t -- a lot of them don’t want to face it, but we are
Americans, and we’re the only ones that didn’t have to pledge the flag. You
know? Like take the Constitution or anything? We didn’t have to do that.

47

�JJ:

You didn’t have to study for that.

ML:

We didn’t have to.

JJ:

Because we were born citizens.

ML:

We were born citizens. So I said to myself, What’s he talking about? He’s the
DP, not me! You know?

JJ:

DP stands for what?

ML:

[Deported?].

JJ:

[Deported?].

ML:

[Deported?]. DP. That’s what they call ’em, DP. Yeah. But [01:06:00] we didn’t
have to. So people from Europe and all that, they’re DPs. They’re calling us
DPs, but we’re not, because we were automatically citizens. Everybody, like
from Latin America, they have to pledge the flag, but we don’t. And I started
thinking, [we’re the only ones?] from all the Latinos and all the people from
Europe, all over the world, we’re the only ones, if you think about it. But it
doesn’t make me any greater, because I love people. I don’t care what
nationality they are. And I think that mostly the Puerto Rican people are like that.
They like other people. And if you look into -- study, if you look into Puerto Rico,
they got Blacks, they got blue eyes, they got tan, mulattos. And not all of them
are -- they’re all different nationalities. [01:07:00] They got Irish. They got
German. They got Mexican, Cuban. Name it. It’s mixed. So if you’re talking
about against a Puerto Rican, you’re talking about practically everybody. You
know? ’Cause we’re all mixed, different nationalities, ’cause a lotta people
landed there in Puerto Rico from different countries. So don’t talk about a Puerto

48

�Rican, because you’re talking about yourself. We got Italian, Filipino, you name
it. Right on. (laughter) You know? If you’re talking about -- this is what I’m
thinking. You’re talking about a Puerto Rican, you’re talking about your own self,
because that’s how the mixture is. Yeah?
JJ:

Okay. [01:08:00] What do you think we should add to this that we haven’t talked
about that you want to? What’s the main thing you want to make sure that it gets
in here?

ML:

The main thing?

JJ:

Yeah.

ML:

Unity. Let’s just unite instead of going against each other.

JJ:

Okay. So we don’t have any unity now?

ML:

No. There’s no unity. They’re still going against -- people going against people.
You know, they’re not showing that love. You know?

JJ:

There used to be love, is that what you’re saying?

ML:

That they have never shown love for each other.

JJ:

So you’re saying the most important thing is that we gotta let people know about
unity?

ML:

Unity. Unite and show love for each other, [01:09:00] instead of fighting against
each other. You know? Or making comments.

JJ:

Like what? What kind of comments? What are you [talking about?]?

ML:

Well, the other day, there was one they had about -- it was all over the news
about Puerto Rico -- about -- what are they called? About Humboldt Park?

JJ:

Oh, yeah. What’d they say about Humboldt Park?

49

�ML:

Oh, that -- can you refresh me on that? Humboldt Park, about those -- it was a
cake?

M1:

Yeah, the TipsyCake thing? Yeah.

JJ:

Oh, yeah. Yeah, they --

ML:

They called Humboldt Park -- what? There was a word.

M1:

Humboldt crack (inaudible) cake, and --

ML:

Humboldt crack.

JJ:

Yeah, crack, like crack cocaine or something?

ML:

Uh-huh.

M1:

Yeah.

ML:

So those are fighting words.

JJ:

They were calling -- saying that Puerto Ricans had crack cocaine, or something,
or...?

ML:

No, they just called Humboldt Park, instead of calling it Humboldt Park, they
called it Humboldt crack.

JJ:

[01:10:00] Humboldt crack?

ML:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

And so why did that upset you?

ML:

It doesn’t upset me. I think they’re ignorant. I think they should be told. They
should be told that we are Americans. We are Americans. Just like they
consider themselves Americans, we are Americans. That’s all. And they
shouldn’t go against us. Like I said, if they go against us, they’re going against
their own people, because Puerto Rican is such a mixed group that -- they don’t

50

�know. And they don’t know this. They’re not educated, or maybe they don’t want
to be educated, ’cause we have all colors.
JJ:

So unity. You want to make sure people know about unity.

ML:

Unity is important. [01:11:00] Unity and the talents that the Puerto Ricans have.
They have a lot of talent. And they have two languages. Two languages is
better than one. Two languages, two people.

JJ:

So we’re mixed, we’ve got two languages, and we need unity. What else do we
need? What else do you think should be in here that’s important?

ML:

Love each other. Love one another.

JJ:

What do you want people to know about you, basically?

ML:

About me?

JJ:

Yeah. What type of person were you -- what type of person are you? Who are
you?

ML:

Me? I love everybody. I love everybody, and I like people to -- [01:12:00] not to
feel pain, to heal, because I used to work in the hospitals. So I like to feel
empathy with them. Sympathy, yes, but empathy, put myself in their place. Like
if they’re hurting, feel their pain, feel what they’re going through. And not putting
them down.

JJ:

’Cause yeah, you worked in a hospital, and so it [comes from being?] --

ML:

Give them comfort, yes.

JJ:

Give them comfort and -- do you feel like people are put down or something
when they are hurting, or...?

ML:

A lot of people get put down, and they don’t feel good about it. [01:13:00] You

51

�know? It makes you -- just like if you’ve been bullied. You know? A lot of
people don’t feel good about it, and a lot of them -- a lot of times, that leads to
suicide, or it leads somebody to, instead of quitting drinking, make them drink
more, because you put them down. You know, they look for an escape if you put
them down. But if you praise them, they feel better, and maybe it makes a
change in their life. And also not being judgmental. It’s very important. To judge
against people just because they did this, just because they did that, you judge
against them and classify them for the rest of their life. No. People make
changes. Give them an opportunity.
JJ:

[01:14:00] Do you feel that Puerto Ricans have been judged wrongly or not
received opportunities, or where do you get that from, that you don’t want people
to be judged, or give them an opportunity?

ML:

Well, I get that from even, you know, from -- mainly it’s from the home. It comes
from your own home. Like if somebody judges you, call you a bad word, or
whatever. So if somebody calls you a bad word, then you live on with that. You
know, why am I this? Why do they call me this? And this and that, you know?
But it could come from your own home, not necessarily from another human
that’s not related to you. But it starts that way. People -- [01:15:00] you know, it
starts from when you’re growing up. But if you feed ’em the good stuff, then
they’ll, you know. It’s what you feed in their heads. If you tell ’em that they’re
good, and they could do better, then that person is gonna do better. You know?
Raise themself up. But if you put ’em down and say different things about them,
bad things about them, that person is not gonna be loving, you know, have love

52

�in their heart. They’re gonna have hate.
JJ:

If you had to describe growing up in this area or in Lincoln Park -- you know, we’ll
call it Lincoln Park, but -- or Lakeview, Lincoln Park or Lakeview -- if you had to
describe it in a few sentences, what was it like living in Lincoln Park for you? In a
few sentences.

ML:

It was -- living here was good. It gave [01:16:00] myself an opportunity to be
educated as much as I get. I didn’t accomplish much, but I feel that I
accomplished something. And I was able to work, work at good places. I worked
at Saint Joseph. And I was given an opportunity. So if I had to do it again, I’d do
it again, live in this area. It’s a very good area. It’s a rich area now, since the
yuppies moved in, but it’s for the best. It’s not for the worst. Changes are for the
best. And if it means cleaning up the streets and getting the bad stuff out, why
not? That’s what I think.

JJ:

[01:17:00] Okay. (Spanish) [01:17:01]

ML: (Spanish) [01:17:05]
JJ:

Okay. (Spanish) [01:17:06]

ML:

I think I said enough. I’ve been here about two hours. (laughs)

JJ:

I appreciate it.

(break in audio)
JJ:

Okay. If you could give me your full name?

ML:

Married name or --?

JJ:

Married name and your -- you know, your name and your married name.

ML:

Before and after.

53

�JJ:

Before and after, any way you want to do it.

ML: (Spanish) [01:17:29] Martha Martinez. (Spanish) [01:17:35] Victor Lopez, (Spanish)
[01:17:39] Martha Lopez.
JJ:

Okay. And (Spanish) [01:17:43] -- where -- we’ll do it bilingual, but you can -probably more in English, but we’ll do it bilingual.

ML:

Well, I’ll try.

JJ:

Okay. Whatever way you feel comfortable. But okay. So when did you come to
Chicago?

ML:

I came [01:18:00] in 1958.

JJ:

Nineteen fifty-eight. And did you come straight from Puerto Rico?

ML:

Straight from Puerto Rico.

JJ:

And where did you come from? What town in Puerto Rico?

ML:

Arecibo, in Sabana Hoyos.

JJ:

Sabana Hoyos? Is that in the country?

ML: (Spanish) [01:18:15 - 01:18:19]
JJ:

Okay. And so what about your parents? What kind of work did they do at that
time over there?

ML:

(Spanish) [01:18:26 - 01:18:38].

JJ:

Okay. So he cut sugarcane and that? Okay. And so what was the reason for
you to come -- you came with both of your parents?

ML:

Well, I was nine and a half, and I came with both my parents and four brothers.

JJ:

And four brothers? Okay. So you were nine and a half. So did you go
[01:19:00] to any school while you were over there?

54

�ML:

Over there? Yes.

JJ:

Okay. What was school like over there? What was it like? Because you went to
school here, too, so what was the difference?

ML:

Well, I went to school up to fifth grade. It was pretty good. We didn’t do any
kindergarten, that’s for sure.

JJ:

There was no kindergarten?

ML:

No.

JJ:

So you said it was pretty good. What do you mean? Was there any difference
between here and there, or...?

ML:

Well, we only spoke Spanish. They taught us little words like lápiz, pencil;
pluma, pen. That’s about it, you know, little words. But when we came over
here, it was total difference, because we had to conquer the language. We didn’t
know any English at all.

JJ:

So you came over here. What school did you go to?

ML:

[01:20:00] I went to Lincoln School, located on Orchard and Geneva.

JJ:

On Geneva? Okay. In Lincoln Park?

ML:

Lincoln Park area, yeah.

JJ:

What they call the Lincoln Park area.

ML:

And I went to --

JJ:

So what grade did you start there?

ML:

Gee. Well, they lowered me from fifth grade to second grade.

JJ:

From fifth grade to second grade. Why did they do that?

ML:

Yes. Also, my brothers were lowered.

55

�JJ:

And why did they do that?

ML:

Because we had a language barrier.

JJ:

So it wasn’t because you weren’t at the level. It was just only because you --

ML:

The language barrier.

JJ:

-- because of the language barrier. You couldn’t speak English that well.

ML:

At all.

JJ:

And so all your brothers, everybody was lowered, and you were lowered.

ML:

Every Hispanic -- well, I’m not saying every Hispanic. Everybody that came from
Puerto Rico was lowered at that time that didn’t know the language.

JJ:

Where did you live? [01:21:00] You went to Lincoln. You lived in Lincoln Park,
but where?

ML:

I used to live at Dickens and Larrabee.

JJ:

Oh, at Dickens and Larrabee?

ML:

Mm-hmm, right by Grant Hospital.

JJ:

Okay. What was the -- well, before we go into there, I see that you have some
things here from your husband. Can you describe some of them, hold them up
and describe them?

ML:

Oh, my husband was a Vietnam veteran. I married him in --

JJ:

What was his name?

ML:

Victor Lopez. We got married in 1972. And he belonged to the Boricua Post.

JJ:

Actually, that was an organization that was, what, on North Avenue or something
like that?

ML:

It’s still there. It still exists.

56

�JJ:

It still exists there?

ML:

Yes. I don’t know the right address, but it’s still there.

JJ:

On North Avenue?

ML:

I believe so. [01:22:00] I believe so. I’m not really sure, because my husband
passed, so I didn’t keep up with them.

JJ:

Right. Okay. So did you go to some of their activities, or...?

ML:

Some, and we went to the parade.

JJ:

What kind of activities did they have?

ML:

They’d just get together and talk about the war, and sort of reunite with each
other so they could share what they went through at the war.

JJ:

Okay. (Spanish) [01:22:30]?

ML:

(Spanish) [01:22:33 - 01:22:36].

JJ:

(Spanish) [01:22:36]. And it still exists.

ML:

Still exists.

JJ:

The Boricua Post 37, they call it?

ML:

Amvets 37.

JJ:

Okay. And what are some of the other things that you have?

ML:

I have some medals here. Second Field --

JJ:

Okay. If you can put [01:23:00] them up for the camera so they can see them.

ML:

Okay. This is the Second Field badge. Those are the medals that he got when
he went overseas in Vietnam. Whoops. This is for being in the service in
Vietnam. It’s another one.

JJ:

Now you said recently he passed away, or when did he pass away?

57

�ML:

He passed away in 2008, in 2008. It’s kinda hard for me to talk about it, ’cause
it’s been recent.

JJ:

Yeah, it is kind of recent, yeah.

ML:

[01:24:00] This is for conduct.

JJ:

Okay, Conduct Medal, okay.

ML:

Conduct Medal. The ribbon was there, but I don’t know where it is. This is the
Bronze Star. Bronze Star.

JJ:

So he was well decorated.

ML:

He was really proud of what he did, but except the war stays inside. They never
leave the veteran, so they don’t know how to cope with reality when they come
back. This is a Vietnam Campaign Medal. (pause) [01:25:00] (inaudible)
(pause) National Defender Medal. (pause) Here’s the Purple Heart.

JJ:

Oh, the Purple Heart. Okay. So he --

ML:

Got injured.

JJ:

He got injured, so he received a Purple Heart.

ML:

Yeah. He had, like, shrapnel in his body.

JJ:

Okay, that’s -- Victor [01:26:00] (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

ML:

His name is Victor. I lost the other one. And here’s a Silver Star medal. That’s a
little picture of him when he was over there.

JJ:

Let me see if I can zoom in on that. Okay. There’s that. Okay.

ML:

And he also went to Waller.

JJ:

Waller High School, also in Lincoln Park. So he grew up in Lincoln Park also?

ML:

I believe so, yes. He grew up around this area.

58

�JJ:

When did you meet him?

ML:

I met him in ’72. [01:27:00] I married him in ’72, same year. Ten months.

JJ:

And you met him at Waller, right, at the school, in Waller?

ML:

No, it was blind date.

JJ:

A blind date. (laughter)

ML:

No, I didn’t know him at school. I think he didn’t go all the way through school.
Uh-huh.

JJ:

Okay. So you came in ’58, and you went to Lincoln School. And you lived on -what street did you say?

ML:

Dickens.

JJ:

Dickens and Larrabee.

ML:

And Larrabee.

JJ:

Right. Okay. And can you -- in 1958, can you describe the makeup of the
neighborhood? Who lived there? What type of nationalities lived there?

ML:

In that neighborhood?

JJ:

In that area where you lived.

ML:

In that area, there was a lot of Hispanics lived around that area, but young kids,
and not teenagers. [01:28:00] Mostly little kids, because that’s when everybody
started coming from Puerto Rico around that time.

JJ:

Around ’58?

ML:

In the fifties they started coming.

JJ:

You know, ’cause they came in different waves, so there was a big wave around
’58 when you came?

59

�ML:

Right, because our parents didn’t have jobs, so they’d come over to look for a
better life for us.

JJ:

Were there people recruiting people in Puerto Rico, or no, you just came -everybody just sort of came?

ML:

Everybody just came, because we are -- automatically, we’re citizens, so nobody
has to recruit us, you know. At least that’s one of the freedoms that we have,
privileges. So no, we just came. My uncle [Willie?], he helped my father a lot,
and his sister. [01:29:00] They came before my father did.

JJ:

So they were here already?

ML:

They were here already.

JJ:

Did they live in that same area, or...?

ML:

I believe so, yes, around this area.

JJ:

Do you remember visiting them?

ML:

More or less, yeah. I don’t remember exactly, but more or less.

JJ:

Because you were already like nine years old, so you kind of remember a lot of
things at that time when you came. What was it like, the first day school? How
did you -- how was that [for you?]?

ML:

Gee, I don’t remember the first day of school, but I remember going to school.
And because I was Hispanic, we used to get beat up.

JJ:

What do you mean?

ML:

They used to beat us up, like -- every day, we had to run. We had to run home.

JJ:

Who would beat you up?

ML:

The other kids.

60

�JJ:

Were they in a gang, or were they just --

ML:

No, just kids going against us because we were -- I guess because we were
Latinos.

JJ:

Do you know what nationality they were? [01:30:00] Just American?

ML:

Just American. Mm-hmm.

JJ:

And they just beat you up for no other reason, not because you were in a gang or
--

ML:

No. Oh, no.

JJ:

Just because you were Latinos.

ML:

Latinos. So I used to wait and --

JJ:

And you actually never went into a gang, right?

ML:

No. No, no.

JJ:

Okay. Okay.

ML:

No, because my father was real strict. We actually didn’t know anything about
gangs at that time. We were kids.

JJ:

So there were no real Spanish gangs or anything like that.

ML:

No, not around that area.

JJ:

Not around that time.

ML:

No. No.

JJ:

They came later, though.

ML:

Gangs came later when I went to Waller. That’s when I went. They’d have -- I
don’t know if it’s Eagles or something? The Eagles?

JJ:

Yeah, yeah, the Latin Eagles, yeah.

61

�ML:

There was always fights, but I used to go straight home. Whenever there was a
fight, somebody would find out about it, and we would know. [01:31:00]
Somehow we knew, and then we just went straight home, because they were
gonna fight.

JJ:

And usually it was a fight between the Spanish gang --

ML:

And the Blacks.

JJ:

And the Blacks, and the --?

ML:

Mainly the Blacks around that --

JJ:

At that time they were fighting, Blacks and Spanish were fighting?

ML:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

Okay.

ML:

In that area, yeah.

JJ:

Okay. Now, Larrabee and Dickens. So you were kind of -- your parents kept you
in the house. And so what did you do, if you were in the house? I mean,
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)?

ML:

Oh, I would help my mother cook, and watch American Bandstands.

JJ:

That was a favorite show at that time.

ML:

Yeah, yeah.

JJ:

Okay.

ML:

The Mashed Potato and all that. Remember that?

JJ:

Okay, right. Mashed potatoes and --

ML:

Do that dance.

JJ:

What were some of the other songs that were on at that time?

62

�ML:

Gee, it’s been so long.

JJ:

But you were mashing potatoes. (laughs)

ML:

The Beatles came along. The Beatles. A lot of -- [01:32:00] The Beatles, um,
the Shangri-Las, the -- I don’t remember most of the names, but there’s a lot of -the Temptations were around that time. And we just kept up with the songs,
trying to learn the language.

JJ:

So you were sheltered, kind of, at home, but I mean, in school, did you have a lot
of friends, or...?

ML:

In school? No, we didn’t have that many friends. Like I said, we had to run
home, because we were afraid that we were gonna get beat up.

JJ:

Okay. So you --

ML:

So I just went out to rescue my brothers. And I always had books in my hands,
so I could beat them up with the books.

JJ:

Okay. Your brothers were younger, so you would protect them?

ML:

One was older, [Nicky?], [Nieves?], he’s older. And then three others were
younger.

JJ:

So that [01:33:00] kept you tight as a family or something, protecting each other?

ML:

Sure, because we -- you know, to us, it was something different. It was like a
jungle. You know? Something different. We had a language barrier, so we
didn’t know.

JJ:

But you were Americans, so how did you feel that you’re an American and you’re
being -- other Americans are --

ML:

Well, when you’re a kid, you don’t know the difference. You don’t know if you’re

63

�American or not. You just know that you’re a kid. You know?
JJ:

And they’re gonna chase you, because you’re Spanish.

ML:

Right. But we didn’t even know it was because of that, but we just figured it out,
that it was that.

JJ:

Okay. So you’re just walking to school, and all of a sudden, somebody starts
chasing you?

ML:

Chasing us, beating us, or they’ll say, “I’m gonna get you when you go outside.”
This white girl told me -- she was taller than me, and I looked at her, and she
said, “I’m gonna get you.” And I said, “Okay.” So I went. [01:34:00] I confronted
her. But I beat her up. And I was younger. Because when we grew up in Puerto
Rico, we used to climb trees and all that, so we were fast, and run up and down
the mountains.

JJ:

In Puerto Rico?

ML:

Yeah. The little hills and stuff. So we knew how to climb and run fast. So she
thought she was picking, you know, on somebody that didn’t know, but that’s one
thing. I was really, really fast running. So I beat her up, and then I took off. That
was the end of that. She never bothered me anymore.

JJ:

Now, what about -- did you go to the show or anything like that, or the theater?
What was the show? Did you go to -- any other, like, neighborhood activities, or
(inaudible) your parents (inaudible) --

ML:

My father used to take us [01:35:00] to the Lincoln Park area, to the Lincoln Park,
and we used to go inside that little fountain by the flower area.

JJ:

By the flower house? By the flower house there? Okay.

64

�ML:

Yeah, we used to get -- go inside the water and swim in there. But then they
said, No more swimming, so we had to get out. Yeah.

JJ:

I think, actually, I swam there too. A lot of people swam there.

ML:

You did. I know you did. A lot of people did. Then they had those little ponies.

JJ:

Yeah, basically all it is, is a fountain, but it’s deep enough to swim if you’re a little
kid. What were you saying about the ponies?

ML:

And they had little ponies, so they took pictures. My father used to take pictures.
Yeah. It was all different for us, because, you know, we didn’t -- in Puerto Rico,
we didn’t have that kind of activity, but we didn’t need it, because we were free.
You know? We did whatever we wanted.

JJ:

In Puerto Rico, you’re saying?

ML:

Yeah. It was free. You didn’t [01:36:00] have to close the doors or anything.

JJ:

And here you had to close doors?

ML:

And here you had to close doors and everything.

JJ:

But why did you have to close doors? What --

ML:

Over here, when you -- when we lived in an apartment here, we had to keep the
doors closed and that. In Puerto Rico, you didn’t have to. It was free.
Everybody was -- everybody knew each other, and it was friendly. We were not
afraid of anybody or anything.

JJ:

But your father was more afraid when you came to the United States?

ML:

Over here? Well, he had to protect us.

JJ:

But he didn’t have to do that in Puerto Rico.

ML:

No.

65

�JJ:

And the reason for protect-- did he give any reasons why he felt he had to protect
you, or...?

ML:

No, he didn’t give us any reason, but we caught on fast.

JJ:

What was that?

ML:

We caught on that it was dangerous outside, and [01:37:00] there was a lot of
different types of nationalities, so we caught on.

JJ:

And it was a big city too.

ML:

And it was a big city. So we caught on that there was danger out there, period.
That was it. Because were pretty bright kids, although we didn’t know the
language. We looked after each other.

JJ:

Now, did you have other family in Chicago?

ML:

At that time, yeah. Uncle Willie.

JJ:

You mentioned your uncle.

ML:

Uncle Willie was here, and my father’s sister, and let’s see. I believe two sisters.
Two sisters.

JJ:

Do you know -- what are their names?

ML:

[Carmen Martinez?] and [Isabel Martinez?]. She has two daughters. Carmen
didn’t have any kids.

JJ:

So what about for, like, holidays? [01:38:00] What holidays did you celebrate
with your family?

ML:

Holidays we got together and cooked. My mother cooked arroz con gandules
with lechon asado. Thanksgiving was pavo. And basically, arroz con gandules
always goes with Spanish food.

66

�JJ:

And so you’d visit each other and (inaudible)?

ML:

Yeah.

JJ:

Okay.

ML:

(removes glasses) Eyes are bothering me.

JJ:

Okay, that’s fine. And what about -- well, you mentioned you went to these
activities at the Amvets place, but what about any birthdays parties or anything
that you recall? Usually when you’re young, you like to go to parties.

ML:

Just the family. Little birthdays with the family. My uncle, [Rafael?], he had kids,
so we went. That’s about it. Not too many parties. [01:39:00] My father was a
religious person, so he kept us kind of inside mostly.

JJ:

When you say religious, what do you mean? Was he a -- what church?

ML:

He went to the Church of Christ. So he kept us straight. You know? He was a
very good man. Can’t find another father like that for myself. And he really kept
us straight. Not strict. He was lovable, but he was very, very straight on
everything. He let us know. He explained everything, what was going on.

JJ:

So he took time and explained things.

ML:

Oh, yeah.

JJ:

Now, did he go to school at all?

ML:

Did he go back to school?

JJ:

How far did he go to school?

ML:

Oh, no. My father had like a second grade or so.

JJ:

Oh, second, that’s all?

ML:

Yeah. He was orphaned at eight [01:40:00] from his mother, and then his father

67

�took a different road, and so my grandfather raised -- helped raise my father, my
mother’s father, because they’re cousins. So he helped raise my father. And
there were like eight other kids. He helped raise some of them, not all of them,
because they were scattered to different family.
JJ:

Do you remember the church that he went to here, where that was?

ML:

Yeah, the Church of Christ.

JJ:

United Church of Christ, or...?

ML:

It’s called the Church of Christ.

JJ:

The Church of Christ?

ML:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

Okay. And that was located in Lincoln Park, or...?

ML:

No, that was located on Long and Division.

JJ:

Long and Division? So he went all the way there?

ML:

Right. The location now, [01:41:00] I don’t know where it is.

JJ:

Okay. What was -- inside Waller, we didn’t go too much into that, because --

ML:

Inside Waller?

JJ:

Because now there’s more Spanish people moving in in the neighborhood, or
no? This is ’58, or -- when you studied, there was very few Spanish people,
right?

ML:

At Waller, there was a lot of Hispanic people.

JJ:

There were a lot of Hispanic?

ML:

I have the pictures there. Those were all Hispanics that graduated there.

JJ:

Okay. So 19--?

68

�ML:

Sixty-eight. That’s when I graduated.

JJ:

Okay. So there was a lot of Hispanics. By 1968, there was a lot.

ML:

Oh, yeah.

JJ:

So was Lincoln Park -- were there a lot of Puerto Ricans in Lincoln Park at that
time, or...?

ML:

Yes. This area had a lot of Hispanics. Uh-huh.

JJ:

Okay. But when you first arrived in ’58, were there a lot of Hispanics?

ML:

There were, but we didn’t go around -- you know, because my father was always
taking care of us, so we didn’t [01:42:00] go around meeting them or anything.
But there were a lot of Hispanics coming in, arriving.

JJ:

So how did you feel later when they started coming, when more Hispanics came
in? Were you still afraid, or were you still sheltered? Was your father still
sheltering you?

ML:

No, we still stayed sheltered, and we didn’t communicate or anything. We just
kept living our life, our normal life. I wasn’t hanging around with this kid or that
kid. No. We just went to school and came home, did our homework or whatever.

JJ:

What was the highest grade that you went to? Did you graduate from college,
or...?

ML:

I went to fourth -- what is it, fourth grade high school -- it’s 12th grade. Then I
went to Truman College for a nursing assistant. Basically, what I did was, I
worked [01:43:00] throughout the hospitals. I worked at Saint Joseph Hospital
for about nine and a half years. Thorek, I did about six months, took a training
there for nursing. Never got the diploma, but I took the training there. And then

69

�Walther Memorial also, I did about eight and a half years there, physical therapy.
At that time, we didn’t need any papers to do that job. Now you do.
JJ:

Certified papers, you mean?

ML:

Yeah, for physical therapy aide. So that was basically what I did.

JJ:

So you went right from Waller to the nursing.

ML:

Yes.

JJ:

Now, was that normal? Were other kids -- I thought there was a big, high
dropout rate, or something like that.

ML:

Pardon me again?

JJ:

I thought there was a dropout rate, a high dropout -- people dropping out of
school?

ML:

There was a high dropout. My husband happened to be one of them, because
his father was [01:44:00] sick, so he had to go and find a job. So he dropped out.

JJ:

So what was the difference between you and them, because they dropped out
and you didn’t drop out?

ML:

Because my mother and father, they both had jobs. They used to work at the
candy factory where my uncle Willie, he was the foreman there.

JJ:

What candy factory was that?

ML:

Peerless Confection. Yep. It’s right around the -- was around the corner on
Schubert. Schubert -- I believe it’s Schubert. Yeah.

JJ:

Okay. Is that south of Diversey or north of Diversey?

ML:

It’s Schubert and Lakewood, so it’s, what --

JJ:

Probably north of Diversey, right? I’m not sure where Schubert is.

70

�ML:

Diversey? South. South of Diversey.

JJ:

So it’s still in Lincoln Park or something like that?

ML:

Yeah, it’s right around the corner, but I don’t remember the correct address.
Yeah, it’s in the Lincoln -- was. They sold it a couple years ago.

JJ:

[01:45:00] Oh, okay. So it was in the Lincoln Park neighborhood too.

ML:

Right.

JJ:

Okay. How many years did he work there?

ML:

My father?

JJ:

Yeah.

ML:

I believe he worked about 20 years.

JJ:

Twenty years there? And he was a -- just a laborer?

ML:

Candy maker.

JJ:

Candy maker. Okay. That was his title?

ML:

Mm-hmm.

JJ:

Okay.

ML:

And my mother was the candy packer.

JJ:

Now, did you ever go to -- oh, so she worked there too. She was at Peerless?

ML:

Yes.

JJ:

Okay. And how long did she work there.

ML:

Gee, I don’t really know how long, but maybe 8. Maybe 8 or 10 years, roughly.

JJ:

Okay. And that was the -- did your brothers and sisters -- I don’t recall. Did you
say [01:46:00] you had -- how many brothers and sisters did you have?

ML:

Four brothers, no sisters.

71

�JJ:

And one was older than you?

ML:

Nieves Martinez, changed his name to Nicky, because he didn’t like Nieves. He
also went to Waller.

JJ:

He went to Waller too?

ML:

Yeah. He went to Waller. Then he went to college. And he became a teacher.

JJ:

Oh, he’s a teacher?

ML:

Yes. But he didn’t like it, so he went into selling insurance.

JJ:

Okay. And he didn’t like Nieves? Why wouldn’t he like to be that name?

ML:

Why he didn’t like that name?

JJ:

They call me Joe, too, so, I mean, it’s not -- (laughs) I’m just trying to find out
why.

ML:

I don’t know. Maybe because people wouldn’t remember how to say the name or
something. I don’t know [at all?]. All of a sudden, his name was changed to
Nicky, and we kept that name.

JJ:

Okay, so he did it [01:47:00] more for other people, to make it easier on them --

ML:

I believe so.

JJ:

-- to pronounce than -- yeah.

ML:

Right.

JJ:

Okay. That’s sort of why I used Joe, too, for a little while.

ML:

Okay, makes sense.

JJ:

Yeah, because people couldn’t say José. They couldn’t say José, yeah.

ML:

Well, I had to change my name, too. My name is Marta, and I had to put an H on
my name, because they used to call me Maria, and they would always say that I

72

�was absent.
JJ:

At school?

ML:

At school. Yeah. One time they counted like eight absentees. “I called you.
Where you been?” I said, “I’ve been here.” And she said, “No, Maria.” I said,
“I’m not Maria. I’m Marta. You’re pronouncing my name wrong. I’m with a T, not
a I.” So I said, Okay, this is not going to change anything by I telling the teacher.
They’re not gonna change it. So I said, Well -- I got smart, and I put an H. So
ever since, I put an H on [01:48:00] my name. But I’m really Marta. But I’m
under -- my birth certificate’s under that, under Martha now.

JJ:

Now, did you have any children at all, or (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)?

ML:

No children.

JJ:

No children? Okay. Okay. The neighborhood was changing, in 1958, and then
it started to change, like they started fixing up the houses and stuff like that. Do
you remember --?

ML:

It didn’t change that fast.

JJ:

It didn’t change that fast? Okay.

ML:

No, it stayed like that for --

JJ:

While you were growing up, it didn’t change.

ML:

No. Changes came after, like --

JJ:

Any big things that were going on when you were growing up that you
remember? Any big things that happened in the neighborhood or that you
remember, memorable things for you?

ML:

Not to me. [01:49:00] I didn’t really see any -- you know, I didn’t see the

73

�changes, because I was always inside. So no, they kept us in. But I remember
Lincoln Park area -- Lincoln area, where the Biograph is, that -- now there they
made a big change. They started putting new buildings up and stuff in the
Lincoln area.
JJ:

The Biograph, was that a local theater or something?

ML:

That was the local theater, and across the street was the Crest.

JJ:

Did you go there too?

ML:

Yes. Mm-hmm.

JJ:

So you would go to that theater. That was like the neighborhood theater?

ML:

More or less. And across the street was the Crest. They called it 3 Penny
Cinema, also.

JJ:

Yeah, they called it later, yeah, 3 Penny Cinema.

ML:

Yeah, that’s where all the young kids used to meet, at the Biograph. I don’t know
if you remember.

JJ:

Yeah, [01:50:00] I remember. I remember that theater.

ML:

A lot of -- that’s where they met, the teenagers.

JJ:

From Waller and that?

ML:

Yeah. They had dates, and they went there.

JJ:

And so you would go there with your date to --

ML:

No, mainly I didn’t date much. We just went to -- you know, just watch a good
movie or whatever. Also, my father would take us sometimes, so...

JJ:

So you would go there too.

ML:

Right.

74

�JJ:

(inaudible) And what were the stores? Where did you shop at? You know,
because you said arroz con gandules. Where would you go buy that stuff?

ML:

My father used to go buy at the Spanish store, but I don’t remember the Spanish
stores then. But I remember they had a -- one called [El Grito?] on Wrightwood.
El Grito. Wrightwood and Lill? Around there. Was it Wrightwood? No.
[01:51:00] Halsted. On Halsted.

JJ:

On Halsted by Wrightwood?

ML:

Right around there. They had a Spanish store called El Grito. We would shop
there. Then there was another one, a Cuban store, on Sheffield. What’s the
name of that? I forgot the name of that one. I think my aunt knows, but she’s not
here now. But anyway, that’s where he basically shopped. We used to live in
Cabrini-Green.

JJ:

Okay. Tell me about it.

ML:

Yeah. Back in the sixties, maybe ’63 or so.

JJ:

Oh, so from Larrabee and Dickens --

ML:

Sixty-three, ’64.

JJ:

-- you went to Cabrini-Green?

ML:

I believe so.

JJ:

Was that the Cabrini-Green that was at Halsted and Division --

ML:

Yes.

JJ:

-- right near the -- they called it the white project (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
--

ML:

Yeah.

75

�JJ:

-- by the color of the building.

ML:

The white projects.

JJ:

And what do you remember about that?

ML:

I went to Schiller [01:52:00] School.

JJ:

Schiller School?

ML:

Yeah. They used to run us home also.

JJ:

That was by Old Town, right, Schiller School?

ML:

Right.

JJ:

And they used to -- who used to run you there?

ML:

The kids.

JJ:

Now, these were not white kids, because they (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) --

ML:

No, Black kids. Very --

JJ:

This is the projects. This is the projects.

ML:

Right.

JJ:

So first you were being run home by white kids, and then you were being run
home by Black kids.

ML:

Right.

JJ:

Okay. Because you lived in Cabrini-Green, in the project that was -- I recall it
was mainly a lot of Puerto Ricans used to live there, there in the white project.
So you got chased. But what other things do you remember there? I mean, that
must have been -- were you on a top floor, or...?

ML:

We were on the eighth floor. The elevator stunk, so -- like they used to urinate in
them. Who knows? Maybe they did a bowel movement too, but I don’t

76

�remember [01:53:00] that. But I know it stunk. So we had to run up the stairs to
the eighth floor, and run down, because we were afraid to take the elevator. You
don’t know who you were gonna meet, so we ran fast up and down, every time.
It was a jungle there. And then I remember my father. Somebody threw -- some
kid or somebody threw a rock and got him on the head. My brother went to
Cooley High, and they set his hair on fire, my brother Nick, Nieves.
JJ:

Why did they set his hair on fire? I mean, was it --

ML:

Maybe the guys were jealous because the girls liked him, the Black girls liked
him. Who knows? I know they used to like him, so it could have been that.

JJ:

But there was trouble there --

ML:

It’s a racial thing.

JJ:

It was a racial thing?

ML:

[01:54:00] Uh-huh.

JJ:

But that building, didn’t you feel at all comfortable? Did they have a lot more
Spanish people in that building, or...?

ML:

Yeah, there was a lady named [Julia?]. We used to go visit her there. But we
didn’t like it, because there was a little girl that got killed there. They threw -- you
know when they have the milk gallons, the gallons of milk that are glass? And
from way up on -- I think it was the 11th or 12th floor, they threw a gallon of milk,
empty gallon, and they threw it on top of her head, and it killed her. So we didn’t
like it there at all.

JJ:

So why did you live there? I mean, because you went from --

ML:

Because it was -- I guess my father was looking for a bigger place. It was brand

77

�new. But he didn’t know. He didn’t know anything about the area.
JJ:

So at that time, it was brand new.

ML:

[01:55:00] Brand new.

JJ:

But it was part of the government housing.

ML:

Right.

JJ:

So you signed an application for the government housing?

ML:

I believe so. Then, yeah.

JJ:

And then they gave him that.

ML:

But he got off -- we lasted there like a year. That was it.

JJ:

And where did you go -- and so how long did you live there?

ML:

Like a year.

JJ:

A year? Okay. And then you moved --

ML:

Came back to Lincoln Park area.

JJ:

Where?

ML:

We lived by Webster and Lincoln.

JJ:

Webster and Lincoln? Okay.

ML:

Then we lived by Lincoln and Wrightwood.

JJ:

Okay, right there. And then just -- you stayed, kind of, on Lincoln Avenue.

ML:

Right. Then my father bought a building right over here on this street, on
Magnolia, 2633. That was his building. So he started progressing, working hard
but [01:56:00] progressing a little bit.

JJ:

What year was that?

ML:

That he bought the building?

78

�JJ:

Broken iron? Did you say broken iron?

ML:

No, working.

JJ:

Working hard. Working hard. Okay. In the candy factory (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible).

ML:

In the candy factory.

JJ:

And he was able to buy the house.

ML:

Right.

JJ:

And that, kind of, borders Lakeview and Lincoln Park, right, the two
neighborhoods?

ML:

Yes, it does.

JJ:

It’s, like, right at the edge of the --

ML:

Right at the edge. I don’t know if this is -- they call it Lakeview now or Lincoln
Park. I have no idea.

JJ:

I think this is probably Lakeview here, ’cause it’s -- well, no, no, no. It’s south of
University, so it’s still Lincoln Park.

ML:

It’s still Lincoln Park?

JJ:

It’s still Lincoln Park, yeah, south of University. University’s the dividing line.

ML:

So I live in Lakeview area, North Center.

JJ:

Oh, this is Lincoln Park. You were living here.

ML:

No, I live now at North Center, Lakeview area.

JJ:

Oh, okay, you live now in Lakeview. Okay. All right. So he bought the house,
and --

ML:

Nineteen sixty-seven.

79

�JJ:

But [01:57:00] you don’t know how much he paid for it then?

ML:

Eighteen thousand.

JJ:

Eighteen thousand. Okay. For two stories, or...?

ML:

Two stories and a English basement.

JJ:

English basement? Okay.

ML:

Mm-hmm, half and half.

JJ:

Okay. And you lived there most of your life after that, or...?

ML:

I lived there till 1972, when I got married.

JJ:

Okay. But he stayed living there?

ML:

Yeah, he stayed there till ’78. Then they left for Puerto Rico, 1978.

JJ:

So you didn’t see the changes, because you were away from the lake and away
from downtown, so you didn’t see the changes in the rest of Lincoln Park. Like
Halsted and Armitage was changing, but you didn’t see that, ’cause Halsted and
Armitage, wasn’t that a center, or Halsted and Dickens, [01:58:00] or something
like that? Was that not a center for the -- what was the center for --

ML:

I seen the -- yeah, when they started building buildings, I started seeing new
buildings coming up. When I went to Waller, I remember it was all a lot of old
houses, old buildings. We used to go, and they had Spanish little shops.

JJ:

A lot of Spanish stores?

ML:

Yeah. Little restaurants. There was a little Spanish restaurant we used to go to
by Halsted.

JJ:

Halsted and Armitage?

ML:

And Armitage, yeah, and the little hotdog stand. Remember that?

80

�JJ:

Right, on Halsted and Dickens.

ML:

Yeah. Those people left. They’re in Florida.

JJ:

Oh, they’re in Florida?

ML:

We made it -- yeah. One time we went to visit, and we saw them. We bought
some hot dogs there. They were good, weren’t they? (laughs)

JJ:

Oh, yeah. (inaudible) Okay. [01:59:00] So there was a bunch of little Spanish
stores around there, because I remember -- well, you know, there was a lot of tall
buildings right there in Halsted and Armitage, around that part, where the bank is
now. There’s a lot of [stuff like that?]. Okay, now, 1972. Did you hear at all
about the Young Lords at all, or no?

ML:

I heard about the Young Lords at the -- on the news. On the news. And I heard
that they helped a lot of people.

JJ:

At that time? I mean, at first it was -- because, you know, it was a gang before.
So how did you think about them when they came out in the news? What did
you think about it, as being a Puerto Rican immigrant and everything (inaudible)?

ML:

See, we didn’t --

JJ:

(Spanish) [01:59:52].

ML:

We didn’t keep up with the gangs or anything. All I know -- what I know is that
[02:00:00] gangs was, like, territorial.

JJ:

Okay. At that time?

ML:

At that time. And I don’t know if it still is.

JJ:

Well, at that time, they were territorial. What do you mean by territorial?

ML:

Well, you know, they couldn’t cross each other. That’s what I think.

81

�JJ:

So they had certain territory.

ML:

Right.

JJ:

And you couldn’t go past that territory, and if you did, you could get beat up if -you know, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

ML:

Beat up, and -- but at that time, they didn’t use guns.

JJ:

Right. It was more sticks, bottles, and knives, [and things?].

ML:

Right. So we were not afraid, because at least we had somebody fighting for us.
You know? Because --

JJ:

Even the gang, you were not afraid of?

ML:

No, because they were helping us in a sense, because they were territorial. You
know? We didn’t hang around with them, but --

JJ:

But you knew they weren’t going to attack you.

ML:

They were not going to attack us.

JJ:

Because they were Puerto Rican, that gang.

ML:

Right.

JJ:

[02:01:00] So they weren’t going to attack you. And at that time, they did protect
Puerto Ricans (inaudible)?

ML:

Right.

JJ:

Okay. Later on, of course, they got into the drugs, so they attacked Puerto
Ricans too.

ML:

Yeah, that was the Division area or something. I think that’s where the drugs
came in.

JJ:

But in Lincoln Park, the gangs were territorial at that time?

82

�ML:

Right. Mm-hmm.

JJ:

And so even though you weren’t in a gang, (inaudible) you’re saying?

ML:

Yeah, we --

JJ:

I don’t want to put words in your mouth. (laughs)

ML:

We were not in the gangs, but we were not afraid. You know?

JJ:

Even though you were a woman?

ML:

Right.

JJ:

You were not afraid that they were going to attack you (inaudible)?

ML:

No, because definitely they were not gonna attack us. We had some kind of
protection, you know?

JJ:

Right, right. And you knew some of these people from Waller, too, right?

ML:

From the gangs?

JJ:

Yeah. Did you know some of them?

ML:

Yeah, some of the guys.

JJ:

So they weren’t really any --

ML:

They had sweaters.

JJ:

They all had sweaters?

ML:

They had sweaters made.

JJ:

What kind of sweater? How did they look?

ML:

[02:02:00] With the name, the gang name.

JJ:

Okay. So all the different gangs had sweaters?

ML:

Uh-huh.

JJ:

Okay. Black sweaters with stripes, is that what you’re saying?

83

�ML:

Yeah, or purple, purple with black.

JJ:

Purple and black? That was the Young Lords.

ML:

The Young Lords. Yeah, that’s how we knew.

END OF VIDEO FILE

84

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                  <text>Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection</text>
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                  <text>Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives.&#13;
&#13;
The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. </text>
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spa</text>
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              <text>Martha López vídeo entrevista y biografía</text>
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              <text>Martha López creció en el vecindario de Lincoln Park y recuerda como la comunidad puertorriqueña prospera allí, especialmente en los jóvenes con grupos como Caballeros de San Juan y los Young Lords. También recuerda como fue atacada “por los blancos y morenos” quien vivía en otras partes del “Old Town” en Lincoln Park. Chicago era una ciudad muy segregado en los 1950 y 1960 y Lincoln Park no era diferente. Señora López recuerda que no tenía miedo de pelear con nadie cuando se enfrentaron  con ella, y tuvo que tirar unos golpes. Pero ella nunca fue parte de una ganga. López atendió Arnold Elementary y luego Waller High school. Su esposo es un veterano miliario condecorado.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: Vietnam War
Interviewee name: Alfred Martin
Branch of Service: Army
Length of interview (00:35:05)
(0:00:06) Pre-enlistment
 Born in 1948, born and raised in western Pennsylvania (0:00:12)
 Grew up in a family of farmers (0:00:25)
 Has a high school education (0:00:32)
 Did not work, drafted right out of high school (January 1969) (0:00:39)
 Did not know much about Vietnam before joining (0:00:55)
 Expected to be drafted (0:01:11)
(0:01:17) Enlistment/Training
 Had to report to New Castle, Pennsylvania, then bussed to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
for physical. Was sent home to wait for paperwork (0:01:18)
 Went back to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and was flown to Fort Jackson, South
Carolina for boot camp (0:01:28)
 No evidence of people trying to „beat the system‟ (0:01:41)
 After boot camp in Fort Jackson, South Carolina he went to Fort Sill, Oklahoma for
artillery training (0:02:01)
 Learned familiarity with the rifle, emphasis on discipline (0:02:16)
 He had a rough idea of the states his fellow troops were from (0:02:48)
 He was in really good shape when he went through boot camp (0:03:01)
 Basic training was roughly 6 weeks (0:03:22)
 Artillery school consisted mainly of gun firing training (0:03:40)
 Volunteered for NCO school because upon completion he would become a
sergeant, so he went to Vietnam as a sergeant instead of a private, and it would
give him the opportunity to make more money and have more time in the states
(0:03:52)
 Artillery school was roughly 8 weeks long (0:05:05)
 Had to learn about every weapon (0:05:18)
o 10 Deucer, back then was a 105
o 155 towed units
o 105, 10 Deuce SP
o 155 self-propelled
o 175
o Basically medium and heavy artillery pieces, both self-propelled and
towed
 NCO school familiarized him with the gun, how to operate it and be in charge of it
(0:06:03)
 155 unit had 13 men (0:06:27)

�o Gunner
o Assistant Gunner
o RTO [Radio Telephone Operator]
o Powder man
o Man that runs rounds
o 2 men run a loading tray
o 1 man running a ram rod
 FDC [fire direction control] ordered them to PD (point detonate), delay or time fuse
(0:07:17)
 Had leadership training, marching and drill (0:07:35)
 Went from basic to AIT to NCO school, totaling approximately 1 year (0:07:46)
(0:09:04) Active Duty
 Flew from Pittsburgh to Fort Lewis, Washington, and Fort Lewis to Vietnam
(0:09:09)
 Landed at a base in Southern Vietnam (0:09:26)
 In-country training consisted of “do‟s and don‟ts” (0:10:03)
 101st Airborne unit, 155 artillery, unsure of assigned battery (0:10:25)
 Joined 101st approximately January of 1970 (0:10:40)
 The 101st was in I Corps when he joined them (0:10:57)
 Was stationed on 12 or 13 bases (0:11:05)
 Was assigned to the 155 Towed Howitzer, 2nd Battery, 11th Artillery (divisional
artillery, joined at a firebase) (0:11:13)
 Assigned as a Gunner to E-6 Sgt. Davis (0:11:41)
 Most challenging thing about the position was the responsibility of the men and the
possibility of losing one (0:12:06)
 Had to adapt his training to combat because combat is much different (0:12:44)
 Physical conditions of Vietnam were hot, dirty, no supplies or water (0:13:37)
 Some firebases were more active than others (0:14:47)
 Name of bases he can remember (0:15:00)
o Jack
o Granite
o Gladiator
o Ripcord
 Once they land, they set up the pad, dig a pit, get bunkers ready and lastly the
hootch for living quarters (0:16:29)
 A hootch is like a hole in the ground with sand bags over the top of it (0:16:51)
 When they did come under fire, it was typically mortars, rockets and small arms
fire (0:17:39)
 Some of the bases he was on before Ripcord were attacked by sappers (0:17:49)
 They could see an RPG coming at them, and were authorized to return fire
(0:18:05)
 They were required to pull guard duty 24/7 (0:18:20)
 He carried an M-16 (0:18:37)
 Sapper, mortar rounds, and RPG attacks occurred at Granite and Gladiator

�
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(0:19:02)
Thinks the battery commander of Ripcord was Captain Baxendale (0:19:25)
Robert Kalsu (Bob Kalsu) a former pro football player was the Executive Officer
(XO), and the nicest guy you will ever meet and led by example (0:19:57)
He joined early in the Ripcord campaign, right when it opened up (0:20:29)
The Ripcord operation kept getting worse and worse every day (0:20:47)
o Guns were run almost 24/7.
o Infantry units in the field were taking a beating and calling for support.
o They slept when they could, and would sometime go days without sleep
No sense of how effective their fire was aside from body counts. They were not
privileged to that type of information, it was not filtered down to men with guns
(0:21:59)
Not much contact with infantry unit except for when they came back for supplies
(0:22:12)
There were problems with resupplies, they needed more of everything (0:22:54)
o Ammunition
o Food
o Water
Saw Lieutenant Colonel Lucas (Andre Cavaro Lucas) fly in and fly out quite often,
but Colonel Lucas did not come around the artillery often (0:23:08)
From the beginning to the end, he does not believe they were there to win the war
(0:23:56)
Had the sense at the time, that they were not supported properly (0:24:27)
The morale of the unit at Ripcord was low, but he had a good crew of good men
(0:24:58)
He stayed with the battery until November 23rd, 1970 after Ripcord ended, and then
got out and went home (0:25:22)
No recollection of how Ripcord ended- he was on R&amp;R because he was wounded.
Spent 21st birthday in Sydney, Australia (0:25:32)
Was hit and wounded by a mortar round at Ripcord (0:26:01)
At Ripcord, sometimes ammunition supplies were hit and blew up. That is what
destroyed the 10 Deuce battery [the other artillery battery on the base] (0:26:17)
Was wounded on the 19th or 20th of 1970, right before they abandoned Ripcord on
the 23rd (0:26:45)
Enjoyed the 1-week R&amp;R trip to Australia, went to Sydney and Hyde Park
(0:27:08)
Returned to Vietnam for the remainder of the tour, and the rest was a blur (0:28:23)

(0:28:34) After Service
 Took a commercial flight back to the United States. They flew into Fort Lewis,
Washington (0:28:35)
 Was welcomed back by his parents (0:28:51)
 Was not aware of how Vietnam was being reported in the news while he was in
Vietnam and even before he left for Vietnam during training (0:29:06)
 He did receive letters from family while he was in Vietnam, which was the only

�
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

communication while he was there. He would write back, but did not tell them
anything that was going on in Vietnam or that he was wounded (0:29:19)
His wound consisted of shrapnel in the thigh (0:29:38)
Was discharged at the end of 1970 and tried to find a job but there was not anything
available at the time (0:29:53)
o After the 1st of the year (1971) he got a job at a coal mine for a couple of
years
o Next he got a job truck driving, and that is the occupation he retired from,
he drove a truck for 32 years
People did not ask about Vietnam once he returned (0:30:24)
Went to a reunion in Fredericksburg, Virginia (0:30:28)
They were not exposed to civilians in Vietnam because they were typically isolated
out on a hilltop (0:31:52)
There was a little drug use on the firebase (0:32:16)
Race relations were not a problem at all (0:32:51)
o His best friend David Johnson served on Randy Burdette‟s crew
Everyone made an effort to get the job done (0:33:42)
Had a sense of responsibility toward the infantry men that were out in the field
(0:33:55)

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Vietnam &amp; Afghanistan &amp; Iraq
Baltazar Martinez
Total Time – (02:11:52)
Introduction / Basic Training – (00:00:11)
 Baltazar Martinez was born in Plainview, Texas on August 8th, 1952; he lived there for about
eight years until his family moved to Bovina, Texas (00:01:03)
 His father was a farmer and his mother stayed at home to work on the fields (00:01:42)
◦ Baltazar was one of the last people drafted by the draft board in 1972 (00:03:16)
◦ He is the oldest in his family and has a younger brother and and two younger sisters
(00:06:00)
◦ Baltazar was planning on going to college to play football and used that as motivation to
keep up his grades (00:07:33)
◦ A couple colleges offered him football scholarships but he ended up receiving a draft notice
and his mother took it especially hard (00:08:54)
▪ Baltazar headed to Amarillo, Texas for a physical and other check ups and eventually
wound up in the Army (00:12:00)
▪ He went to Ft. Ord in California for basic training (00:13:28)
 Baltazar was brought up in a very structured family and thanks his parents for that as
it helped him get used to the way of the Army (00:14:34)
 Baltazar got sent off to become a 19 Delta (Cavalry Scout) (00:17:25)
 A lot of the basic skills of the Army came natural for him; his father taught him how
to shoot a rifle- everything Baltazar did in Basic Training is what he wanted to do
(00:19:53)
 Four to five weeks after he arrived at Basic Training, he was congratulated by the 1st
sergeant on being of the last people to be drafted (00:22:01)
 Baltazar didn't know what a 19 Delta was when it was announced that's where he
was going to be; he finally learned that he was going to be at reconnaissance school
(00:23:37)
 All of his drill instructors had combat experience and his 1st sergeant had served in
Korea (00:25:27)
◦ Baltazar left Ft. Ord for Ft. Carson in Colorado to be a cavalry scout (00:26:57)
▪ He learned how to set up ambushes, explosives, booby-traps, among other
things; he already knew how to work with a map and compass (00:29:13)
▪ The training at Ft. Carson took eight weeks; from there, Baltazar got orders
to go to Vietnam (00:32:01)
▪ After Advanced Infantry Training (AIT), he earned leave to go home for
about a week; he then reported to Travis Air Force Base (AFB) and flew
from there (00:32:48)
Vietnam (00:32:29)
 He jokes that his time in Vietnam was so short that he just showed up, saw the land, and was
turned around to be sent back home at the end of 1972 (00:33:00)
 They flew from Anchorage, Alaska to Japan and then Japan to Saigon; he was only there for a

�couple of days (00:33:54)
Back to the United States (00:33:57)
 He was then assigned to the 1st of the 10th Cavalry at Carson (00:34:20)
◦ Baltazar mentions that the military is constantly training people and that's part of the
everyday routine- a lot of weapons training (00:36:29)
◦ He liked the training because he was never bored- he was constantly doing something
(00:37:19)
◦ Baltazar describes a situation when he was on a vehicle one time that was on fire and his
sergeant told him to keep driving; eventually the situation was diffused but quite nerveracking (00:40:29)
◦ He spent about two years with the 1st of the 10th Cavalry before he got his orders that sent
him to Korea (00:41:43)
Korea (00:43:30)
 Baltazar was with the 1st of the 72nd Armor and was attached to combat support (00:43:41)
 He was still a Cavalry Scout but was attached to his assigned unit; he spent 13 months there
(00:44:43)
◦ After Baltazar became the rank of E5, he was told that he needed to go to NCO school and
was sent there because of his character (00:46:33)
◦ He was getting ready for an inspection when North Koreans entered into the “No Mans
Land”; gunfire was exchanged but nothing major happened (00:49:27)
◦ Baltazar says he learned to always be prepared because you never know what's going to
happen- you must have flexibility (00:49:40)
▪ With about three weeks left in his 13 month tour, Baltazar explained a story about a US
chopper getting some bullet holes from North Koreans near the exhaust (00:53:55)
 His parents let him make his own decisions once Baltazar turned 18 but said they
would always give him advice for whatever he chose to do (00:55:18)
 Baltazar then enlisted for another three years with the Army (00:56:09)
 He and his unit provided gifts for a local orphanage while in Korea (00:58:09)
◦ Other than providing for the orphanage, Baltazar didn't really have much other
communication with the local population but remembered a few words he
learned while he was there (00:59:44)
◦ Baltazar mentions another story about a time when locals got on to a restricted
area in their mortar range and how one of his NCO's chased them off (01:03:15)
◦ The weather in Korea was brutally cold but not a lot of snow (01:04:28)
◦ Sometimes the locals seemed to know more than the soldiers about alerts and
things like that as one certain local would set up shop for the soldiers because
she had heard about an alert before they did (01:07:43)
◦ When an alert would happen, his unit would resort to fighting positions and
again, it was a secret to the US but not to the local population (01:09:07)
▪ Baltazar put Ft. Hood, Ft. Carson, and Ft. Bliss in El Paso, Texas as his
number one destination- he laughs because he got sent to Ft. Knox, Kentucky
(01:09:39)
Back to the United States (01:10:58)
 Baltazar was sent to Ft. Knox, Kentucky after 13 months in Korea; he was assigned to the 1st

�

Training Brigade Unit (01:11:05)
He was still an E5 and was an Advanced Individual Training Instructor- about a year later he
was E6 (01:11:32)
◦ Baltazar was selected by a committee to go to drill sergeant school at Ft. Knox for about
five weeks (01:15:30)
◦ He received a score of 49 out of 50 and the person that graded him told him the only
mistake he made was that he wasn't perfect- Baltazar was humbled by that (01:17:57)
◦ Overall the quality of individuals of recruits were intelligent; he remembers a young man
that had a masters and was gung-ho as could be (01:21:22)
▪ The young man that Baltazar mentioned wanted to become a Chaplain and he wanted to
know why the man didn't just go through OCS and the man replied that if he didn't go
through the training, how would he know what the other soldiers are going though
(01:22:15)
▪ Baltazar did the training stint for three years which would have been around 1981 as his
enlistment was coming up (01:23:15)

The Marine Corps Years (01:24:47)
 After nine years and three three-year enlistments, Baltazar decided he wanted to join the Marine
Corps (01:24:47)
 His Command Sergeant Major told him he was going to make E7 soon and asked him why he
wanted to give that up and Baltazar replied that something was telling him to join the Marines
(01:28:04)
◦ He was told that he'd be brought down to Lance Corporal, an E3 position, as well as go
through boot camp and that was fine with Baltazar (01:29:42)
◦ Baltazar was brought in as the Marines were suspicious of his situation: they asked him if he
was related or knew any people in congress- they couldn't believe he wanted to come into
the Marine Corps as an E6 (01:32:08)
◦ He actually came back as a Staff NCO as an E6 in the Marine Corps at Ft. Knox (01:33:05)
▪ Some of his previous majors from the Army were sitting at the NCO bar as he walked in
(01:35:13)
▪ He was at Ft. Knox from around 1981 til 1983; he was then assigned to an inspective
duty over in Alameda, California (01:36:39)
▪ Baltazar finished a three year enlistment with the Marines and then went on Reserve
Status for three years (01:37:36)
 He was thinking about himself and starting a family and that's a big reason why he
chose to not be on active duty (01:38:53)
 Baltazar and his family lived in California from 1983/84 til almost 2000 (01:41:35)
 Him and his family ended up moving to Marshall, Michigan in 2000 (01:43:28)
National Guard Duty (01:45:50)
 In 2007, Baltazar joined the National Guard after his daughter entered college (01:45:50)
 After the E6 and E5 slots were filled, he decided that he didn't need the rank in order to lead as
part of the National Guard (01:50:23)
◦ In 2010, Baltazar was deployed to Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan for six months (01:52:50)
◦ The deployment was an individual deployment because of Baltazar's expertise in weaponry
and prior combat experience (01:53:38)
▪ Kuwait was his main base and first flew out to Afghanistan; he was accountable for all

�▪

the heavy machinery (01:54:33)
He went back and forth from Kuwait to Afghanistan twice and would be gone from ten
days to 14 days at a time (01:57:19)
 Baltazar was accounting for equipment in Iraq as the United States started to
withdraw troops as this made his job quite critical (02:00:00)
◦ He mentions that while he was in Iraq it seemed like the Insurgents were just
waiting for the US troops to get out (02:04:26)

Back to the United States (02:06:00)
 Baltazar returned from Iraq in 2011 and wanted to return in 2012 but his aged barred him from
his deployment (02:07:27)
 Baltazar came home to a loving family in 1972 when he got back from Vietnam and came back
from Iraq to a loving family in 2011 and that's what he believes keeps him grounded and sane
(02:10:05)
 He feels like he can still perform for the military and be able to provide experience for young
men and women; to pass the torch on to the younger generation is one of his goals (02:11:17)

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Douglas Martyn
(00:45:53)
(00:20) Background Information
• Born in Flint Michigan in 1925.
• Father worked in factory.
• Joined National Guard at 16.
• During high school, worked for National Guard on Saturdays only.
• Left high school before graduating to join military.
• Drafted in February of 1944.
(04:25) Basic Training
• Fort Sheridan, Illinois.
• He knew what to expect at basic training because of his prior training with the
National Guard.
(05:25) After Basic
• He helped people take the aptitude test for 6 months.
(06:30) Chicago
• The men would stay in hotels that were converted into servicemen’s quarters.
• Attended stage shows and movies in Chicago.
(07:50) Time as a Medic
• He worked in a medical dispensary.
• He doesn’t know what qualified him to become a medic.
• He was taught by a pre-med student all of the proper medical procedures.
• He had to sterilize and sharpen his own needles.
• He remembers men fainting while getting their inoculations.
• The men had to be on call during weekends to help with emergencies.
• The doctors in the dispensary were all civilian doctors.
(17:45) After Chicago
• Switched to the Air Corps.
• Based in Lake Charles, Louisiana.
• The base was very warm, especially during the summer.
• Limited contact with civilians, unless he ventured into town.
• Based at Lake Charles for around 6 months, until it was closed.
• Sent to El Paso, Texas.
• He would ride along with pilots over the oilfields of Texas.
(22:46) Alaska

�•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•

Was sent as a medic.
He was stationed in the western half of Alaska, near Nome.
It was a rather large base, due to fighting in Aleutians.
The men did a lot of fishing and hunting during their time in Alaska.
They burned oil to keep warm during the winter.
The oil would start freezing and become very thick because of the cold.
Moose were around the base, but never came near the men.
Mechanics, maintenance men and medics were the main groups of people stationed at
the base.
There were a couple of seaplanes on the base, but no major military planes.

(30:45) Important Leaders who visited the camp
• General Eisenhower came to the base to fish at one point.
• They built cabins at a far end of the base for the upper echelon of military leaders.
• Curtis LeMay, the future head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff also visited the camp.
• He complained to LeMay, without knowing who he was, and soon after, some
engineers came and renovated some of the base.
(35:25) Other Duties in Alaska
• He helped build a floating dock for seaplanes to land on.
• Helped with a lot of small odd jobs, such as plumbing, around the base.
• Was stationed in Alaska for 20 months.
(37:00) Anchorage
• The men would take three-day leaves from the camp to go to Anchorage.
• There were recreation facilities for the troops in Anchorage.
(39:10) Thawing Water Pipes
• One of the men caught the pump house on fire while thawing the water pumps.
(40:00) After Alaska
• Was discharged in Great Falls, Montana.
• Returned home to Flint after discharge.
(41:00) Work
• Attended school at the General Motors Institute.
• Received an apprenticeship and then began working.
• He worked as an engineer.
(42:25) Grand Haven, Michigan
• After visiting relatives in Grand Haven, they decided to move from Flint to Grand
Haven.

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Leon Marx
(46:30)
Disc One (1:02:04)
Disc Two (1:01:41)

(00:30) Born in Battle Creek, MI 6/29/1921
(1:45) Leon’s Parents
•
•

His dad worked at Fort Custer as the Chief Engineer
His mother was a registered nurse at the sanitarium, but stayed home most of the time to
take care of the kids

(3:25) His Father at Fort Custer
•
•

The Army of Engineers built a pontoon bridge behind their house to move a bulldozer
over the river in their back yard
The bridge broke and the bulldozer ended up in the river

(4:30) School
•
•
•
•

He went through the 9th grade at River Park School
There were thirty students per class and two grades per class
His friend and he pulled a prank fire drill and sprayed the extinguisher all over their
teacher
His favorite subject was mathematics, in which he received A’s

(7:00) Kellogg High School
•
•
•

The principal was his grandfather so he did not get into much trouble
He was his grandfather’s favorite grandson and could always borrow his car to go for a
ride during school with his friends
Leon has been driving since he was ten years old

(8:15) Past Driving Experiences
•
•
•
•

He first drove a Model T Ford with three pedals and ran it into a telephone pole
When he was younger, he lived on a farm and was allowed to operate a tractor
On the farm they raised over 1,000 chickens a year, which he and his brother had to feed
and take care of
They once captured five skunks and kept them as pets

�•
•
•
•
•

The skunks sprayed everyone except he and his brother; they had to get rid of the smell
with tomato juice
He once borrowed his brother’s Model A Ford to go to the prom, which his brother had
bought after graduation for $25.00
His brother once drove a car into a river on accident and his father had to buy a tractor off
a farmer down the road to pull it out
The tractor was hard to drive, but it was fun
It had steel wheels, and started with gasoline and then later switched to diesel

(13:45) The Prom
• Leon went to the prom with a junior when he was a senior
• He was not a very good dancer, but he danced to every song
• That night he met a Detroit Tigers baseball player
(15:20) Baseball
•

It only cost $1.00 for the whole family to go to a game

•

His grandfather had played baseball in college; he traveled and played with the Detroit
Lions, so many times they were able to get into games for free and sit right next to the
dugout

(16:25) After Graduation
•
•

He went to work at Michigan Carton Company

•

In 1941 he went to Western Michigan University for Aircraft Mechanics

•

It cost him only $20.00 a semester

•

He attended college until the war broke out

(17:25) Pearl Harbor
•

When the Japanese attacked he was on a ride with a girl near Lake Michigan

•

He heard the news on the radio and then hurried home

•

He had been living with his parents at the time

•

His father had been gone working at Fort Custer for two straight weeks because they
were already on alert

•

That previous August his father had been at a meeting in Chicago

�•

At that time his father believed they would be at war with the Japanese by Christmas

(21:55) The Aftermath of Pearl Harbor
•

His father had said that the soldiers who were not good at their job were being sent to
Panama

•

But when the war got serious, Panama was a strategic location so they started sending the
soldiers to Hawaii; his father believed that was why Pearl Harbor was attacked

•

Speaking of Pearl Harbor, Leon said “No wonder it went to hell.”

•

He and his brother enlisted the day after Pearl Harbor; they were sworn in December 20th

•

They then went to Jefferson Barracks together in Missouri

(24:40) Missouri
•

Before going to Missouri, they had to stop at Fort Custer where they were sworn into the
10th Infantry

•

Afterwards they went home for one last dinner before leaving; the memory made Leon
cry

•

They shipped out the first week of January to go to Missouri; they traveled on a train with
no heat and it was negative three degrees

•

The base in Missouri was similar to Fort Custer and there were about 50 men sharing one
room

(28:35) Basic Training
•

Leon had to pull KP a few times and clean the mess hall

•

There was no graduation party, but afterwards he was sent to Long Island

•

He learned the basics of plain engines in Long Island, yet while at college he had learned
about P24s

(32:10) Mitchell Field
•

He was at Mitchell Field until 4/1/1942 and then was assigned to a service squadron

•

The master sergeant there picked on him all the time

(34:20) Special Services
•

Leon began training for the OCS and it was very hard work

•

He was reprimanded for being out at night without a pass

�•

He had helped the cook cut up whole chickens and then he became the mess hall clerk

•

He was in the kitchen all the time

(38:45) 1942 Race Riots
•

The riots were in New York and each soldier was issued 60 rounds of ammunition

•

There was also another race in Detroit at the same time

•

There were blacks against blacks, but there were no guns; they were fighting each other
with bricks and bats

•

They started firing their guns and everyone quickly ran off

•

They were called out another time and given 120 rounds a week later

•

They had to play guard duty until the National Guard Rainbow division came to relieve
them

(41:50) The Trip to Iceland
•

Leon traveled to Iceland on a Santalina cruise ship

•

He had to sleep on the top deck to keep from getting sea sick; it was very cold

•

There were many storms during the trip and lots of people got sick

•

They did not eat very well; a meal consisted of 2 boiled eggs, 2 pieces of bread, and a cup
of coffee

•

Many people would sneak into the kitchen to steal food

•

Some would just eat a whole case of onions as though they were apples

•

They had to have guards on duty to watch the kitchen 24/7

(44:10) Iceland 1942
•

There was salmon being dried out on racks all over the coast and it smelled like fish
everywhere

•

They had to go through inspection because everyone on the ship had fleas

•

He got to bar tend for 3 days and he got drunk everyday; he got sick of bartending
quickly

•

He was transferred to guard duty

•

It rains a lot in Iceland and it is always cold

�•

In the summer it only gets to about fifty degrees

•

He enjoyed cooking more than guard duty because they got the first dibs on food, worked
in a warm environment and were able to take hot showers; they also got free laundry
service

(48:00) Guard Duty
•

At one point he had heard some Morse code and called Army Intelligence

•

The next night he was transferred to a different post so that Army Intelligence could
guard the area where he had heard the code

•

It turned out to be a German spy who was sending code to Germany every night at 11pm

•

Leon then received top security clearance

•

He guarded Roosevelt’s sons and the Russian ambassador

•

He was in Iceland for two years

•

He went back and forth from cooking to guard duty

•

Privates receive $21/month and guards receive $66/month and three days off

•

He never had to shoot anyone the whole time he was in the service

(54:05) 1944
•

He went with 32 other men from the Air Corps with the 101st Division

•

He was not going to volunteer to be a paratrooper, but they would not let him cook

•

He was assigned to a higher area to guard Eisenhower’s headquarters

•

In June he was able to start cooking again

(58:30) London
•

He cooked for the Supreme Headquarters Allied Expedition Forces, Eisenhower’s staff

•

He also cooked for George Patton, who was always out of uniform to visit his nephew
that cooked with Leon

Disc Two
(00:25) The Advantages of Cooking
•

They went out on the beach and found thousands of clams

•

They ate some and gave some to the captain, then they had to go back and get more so
they could make some for everyone

�•

They were able to go into town and eat at restaurants

•

Restaurants served horse meat in Iceland

(2:40) The Boat to England
•

They played poker in his room

•

They made lots of money and went shopping; he bought scotch in Scotland

(5:10) June 2
•

He started cooking again in England

•

On June 4th he saw a buzz bomb from Germany

(9:00) Normandy
•

On June 5th reporters were denying that there was any activity in Normandy

(14:00) Cooking School
•

He went to school for a while and was taught how to bake

•

The regular personnel did not get the good food that he was taught to cook

•

He cooked for Eisenhower and his staff

•

He cooked whole pigs for the king of England and for Winston Churchill

•

Leon was treated like a king by everyone because he could cook so well

(18:50) Russia
•

Secret Service asked him to go to Russia

•

They went to Italy first because the plain was having problems

•

They stopped in Greece after Italy to pick up a new radio for the plain

•

In Greece Germans were shooting at them on the runway

•

They then went to Egypt and stayed in a hotel

•

After that they went to Iran for a week

•

In Iran there was a slave market where they were selling Caucasian women for less than
$50

(42:00) POWs
•

In Russia they were supposed to get Americans who had been in prison camps

�•

They did not find many American POWs

•

After staying in Russia for a while, many men learned to speak Russian

•

Leon was sent to Russia because they did not have any good cooks

•

Leon cook turkey in Russia for Christmas

(46:30) Poltava, Ukraine

 

•

The city is on a big river near Kiev

•

He cooked here also until VE Day, for five months

•

He got drunk a couple of times in Ukraine

•

He found a Russian camera and took many pictures

•

US intelligence wanted the pictures and asked him to take more

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                  <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en"&gt;In Copyright&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/</text>
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                <text>A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on February 20, 2002 entitled "Mary and Her Son", as part of the series "The Grace To Let Go", on the occasion of  Midweek Lent, at Christ Community Church, Spring Lake, MI. Scripture references: Luke 2:33-36, Mark 3:19-35, John 19:25-27.</text>
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                  <text>Robert H. Merrill photographs</text>
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                  <text>Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222)</text>
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              <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
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                <elementText elementTextId="920809">
                  <text>In Copyright</text>
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                  <text>Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner &amp; Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. </text>
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            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
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                <text>In Copyright</text>
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