219 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/245bddaaffdbb90d82cdfdbfc915f4ae.mp4 9e235d364d0c9fe0b9b06cd71091d9fc https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ba1155fe7c7834e14aff5c85ea661963.pdf 3043438bca248c1342b6359cc39ae0d4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Gerhard “Herman the German” Neumann Date of Interview: 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] - audio only FRANK BORING: To begin with, could you give us some idea of your background before you even came to China - your schooling and your expertise, learning how to work with engines. Can you give us some background of that please? HERMAN THE GERMAN: I was the son of a manufacturer of feathers for beds and feathers for blankets in East Germany, east of Berlin and Prussia. I was the only son and my son, of course, wanted me to take over his business ultimately. But I didn't like his business at all, I liked engineering from a little boy on. I flew secretly without telling my parents. I was nine years old already and airplane and took a round flight in a plane, I was very excited about it, and my parents then agreed I could go to engineering college. In order, in Germany in those days, to go to college, you had to be an apprentice as a mechanic for a minimum of 3 years, which gives you a feeling for the stuff which you ought to design later and how things work. I completed this 3 year period, I passed the examination as a journeyman which then means you are free to repair automobiles or airplane engines if that's the case on your own without supervision. I then went to Midweiter [?] which is the most famous German engineering school and the oldest one for many famous people like Junkers, Heinkel, Opel and many of the leading German manufacturers came from and graduated from. Just before I finished graduating, this was under the Hitler years, of course, it �was in 1938, in '38 in August '38, I was drafted into the German army and I got a passport but as an engineering student, I was deferred. All engineers and all doctors, medical, in anticipation of the need for war which Hitler knew he was going to start, but the world claimed then that they knew about it, I was deferred, I could continue with my studies and just before I graduated, I saw a notice on the bulletin board that the Chinese government, nationalist of course at that time, was looking for a few German young engineers who, after graduation, would take over the supervision of the maintenance of German aircraft and German planes. I saw this ad, I took this ad to the director's office and said, "Look, I have a chance to go," and he said, "This is okay, you had some excellent grades in the past years and we will send you a certificate. You apply, go right to Berlin and start applying for visas", because in those days, when you made a flight from Germany to Hong Kong, for example, you passed 12 countries, you need 12 visas. It's nothing like today where things go in a matter of hours, it took weeks before you could get the visa or an interview, going through Iraq, going through Baghdad and going through Iran, or at that time, Persia, and India was, of course, one country and Burma and Indo-China, French Indo-China at that time, all these countries took a while. Anyhow, I did get a ticket for a big tri-engine plane that flew once a week, Air France from Paris to Hong Kong and it took eight full days to fly there because there was no night flying and many landings were not on runways, there were no runways, they landed on the beach in many places. But in any case, it took eight days and I wound up in Hong Kong. FRANK BORING: Could you tell us what the reaction was of your family when you told them you were going? HERMAN THE GERMAN: They wouldn't think it would really work. My parents never thought that it would really work, that I would really get on that plane and get all the way to China because it was in the other half of the world, it was so far away that they thought they would never see me again if I do go. But I was determined to go. �FRANK BORING: Why did you want to go China and as a sub-question to that, what did you know about China before you went? HERMAN THE GERMAN: I knew really nothing about China, but I knew that I had to learn English. Now I had English at school and I had Latin at school for seven years, I had French for five years and I had English for three years, but that English I found out didn't really work when I talked to the first Englishman I met in Germany. He didn't understand a word that I had. I had English from teachers who had never been to England, so I knew I had this ahead of me. China seemed interesting, there was a book out in those days, "600 Million Customers". I don't know whether you had that here in English too, but we had this in German, I read this, it fascinated me, what they had in China and how they lived and to go on a two year contract, that was the idea, two years over there was perfectly all right as far as I was concerned. FRANK BORING: Tell us about your arrival in China and what was the first thing that you were to do when you arrived in China. HERMAN THE GERMAN: When I went to China in a very fancy airplane and everything was paid ahead of time in Germany, all the hotels at night and all the food and everything. I could not take any pictures incidentally because the law was that the cameras would be all locked up, so we couldn't take any photographs of the very fancy old places. I arrived in Hong Kong and stayed at the Peninsula Hotel, which was in those days, and still is today, the high class hotel. The one night of arrival was paid for in Germany. I had one experience with Nazi leadership. In September of '38 or thereabouts, there was a rumor that Germany may start a war, and Hitler denied it vigorously and on German radio. While looking out of the window of my apartment I saw German tanks already lined up, camouflaged and I knew at that point it was a complete lie. How the allied intelligence could not find out about this before, �is beyond me, but it was obvious we were going to start a war in a very short time, and so my invitation to go to China came just at the right time. FRANK BORING: If you can just repeat the answer that you had before HERMAN THE GERMAN: There were several questions before, which one was that? FRANK BORING: This is the one, your reaction to the situation in Germany at that time. HERMAN THE GERMAN: At that time, from beginning 1934,5,6 on, after the Olympic Games in Berlin, and I assure that it became obvious to the Germans that a war was in the making. Germany had all kinds of treaties, had just signed a treaty with Poland and was ready to violate it. We saw it in tanks which were parked in front of my window near the Polish border and there was a German agreement with Russia which suddenly came about after Hitler and Stalin were fighting each other – it was dog and cat – all of a sudden these two were signing a peace agreement. We knew right away inside Germany that this would lead to war very soon, and the allies would be terribly surprised because they wouldn't believe that Hitler and Stalin would get together and sign an agreement. FRANK BORING: What did you know about the situation in China politically, with the Japanese, before you left? What did you know about that? HERMAN THE GERMAN: The rape of Nanking was a well-known matter. I knew not much about China except what was written in the book "600 Million Customers", very favorable towards the Chinese people, about their intelligence about their work habits and so on, but the Japanese invasion which was in Shanghai and which went rapidly westward and got into Nanking, the rape of Nanking, was known, at least as the reporter reported it, in Germany. That itself didn't bother me because I was going to go with the nationalist Chinese, which at that time, there was really only the nationalist Chinese �and to help China operate the German equipment they had secretly got. One may be surprised that Germany sent military equipment to China. While Germany had Hitler and Hirohito and Mussolini as everybody knows were an Axis group but secretly Hitler shipped via Russia military equipment to the Chinese to fight the Japanese and that was a weapon trade and not only is Germany doing this, others have been doing this too. But anyhow, the Chinese had equipment but could not operate it properly, at least, that's the way they felt. FRANK BORING: What were your first duties? What were your first responsibilities? HERMAN THE GERMAN: When I got to Hong Kong, I was supposed to contact immediately a Chinese organization which operated under a code name and was taking several other engineers like myself and bringing them into the interior of China. Now this was Hong Kong, the British Hong Kong, where this took place. The people I was looking for, I was told had just left because they were thrown out at the Japanese request. The Japanese demanded from the British that they expel that particular group which was a recruiting agency. Here I was, all by myself and with nothing to do, and I immediately looked for a job and as automobile mechanic, it was the easiest to find a job. I got a job with the General Motors Agency in Hong Kong, but it didn't last very long because the war started in Europe and the British interned me immediately as an enemy alien. They had my travel passport and my military passport taken away and so I was put in a camp and we had to finally 102 German prisoners who were there kept until 1940 and Germany suddenly unleashed its war against the west, Holland, Denmark, Belgium and France collapsed I believe it was June 22nd or thereabouts of 1940. Then our good treatment in the British camp, prison camp, was ended, the friendliness. After all, the British were in a very delicate position, because the Chinese were considered inferior and the Chinese were handing on the barbed wire and looking in from outside, what happened to the prisoners in there. We could play ball, or we could play tennis and we had even laundry service and �everything. All this of course, ended, and we were given a 48 hour ultimatum and that was to either get out of Hong Kong or be shipped to Colombo in a big German prison camp they were going to establish at that point. And you had to pay a few Hong Kong dollars for a guard which was assigned to you with a fixed bayonet, to follow you wherever you wanted to go. He wasn't supposed to talk to you but there were a few places I thought, maybe Portugal or General Motors, or the Philippine Consulate or some other places, there were about six places I wanted to go to, to see if they would take me in without a passport, since I did not have a passport. The British were not going to give me my passport back, and only five of the 102 internees took advantage of that. One had a kayak folding boat and went by kayak, got away and paddled over to Portuguese Macao which is about fifteen miles away across the ocean which was not too dangerous, the water was usually quite quiet. The other four did not get any jobs and I gave up just about one more visit – at the last visit at the CNAC, Chinese National Aviation Corporation. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Neumann_Gerhard_1991_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann interview (video and transcript, 1 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Gerhard Neumann by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Neumann, known by his American Volunteer Group (AVG) comrades as "Herman the German," was a mechanic and the son of non-practicing Jewish parents. Though drafted into the German army in 1938, he attained a deferrment as a working engineer. He left Germany to seek a job opportunity in Hong Kong in 1939, but upon arrival learned the company had disappeared. Circumstance led him to working for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) where he worked as an auto mechanic. After the Pearl Harbor attack, he accepted an offer from Col. Chennault and joined the AVG. He served among the headquarters personnel as a Propeller Specialist. In this tape, Neumann describes his background in Germany before traveling to China to work as a mechanic for the Chinese government. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/291fd0fa68a09531d0066f40a0fb6da2.mp4 9a3b3fb4241ccc79d898b1657539e18d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1953a6fd8f68c12d3be7779621044dae.pdf 5854d265276745e2fa63b82969957b35 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Gerhard “Herman the German” Neumann Date of Interview: 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] HERMAN THE GERMAN: The paddler [?] went to Macao and succeeded to get there but I understand he was interned in Macao and was kept there throughout the war for another four years. I made one final attempt to go sea in a CEE which is a Chinese National Corporation which is rumored to be part of a Pan American outfit. My guard and I went up into the only "skyscraper" they had in Hong Kong at that time, 20 storey high, a beautiful building, Hong Kong and Shanghai bank, a lot of travelers who went to Hong Kong have seen it. On the eight floor was CNAC building and I went upstairs with my guard, there was a Chinese, beautiful Chinese girl. All I remember was this slit skirt which all the Chinese girls had, and I was concentrating on her legs down there, but asking where the manager is. She said "The manager went home, you come back on Monday." I said "I cannot come back on Monday", and he said "I'm very sorry he's not here." And we both left, the guard and I left the CNAC office, I went to the elevator, I pushed the button on the eighth floor to go down, and the elevator come up to pick me up, and as the doors opened, I walked into the elevator with my guard, and coming out of the elevator was a gentleman with whom I collided, and I backed up and apologized. I saw right away that this man look British at all. He had a tie which was loose, he had a jacket over his shoulder, he was a tall good looking man, and he said, "Come in my office", and he happens to be – we went back in the office, passed the secretary, and he asked me what the story �was, what I wanted, and I had to speak English, of course, which was not too easy at that point, I had to speak slowly, and he said, "Have you any papers, or any passport, I said, "No, the British have all that", and he said, "Let me see if I can help you". The next thing I knew, it turned out to be typically American, he turned around, grabbed the phone right there, called someone, and all I heard was his side of the story and I understood only half of it. Also that his American was different from British, and I couldn't understand English enough anyhow. But all I heard him say was, he has to be out, then he asked me, "When do you have to be out?" and I said "I have to be out by midnight". He said, "Okay", he went back to the phone and told the other party, whoever he talked to, "No, it's too late, he has to be out tonight", I said "Yes", "Tonight. All right". Then he talked some more and said, "Okay, I'll have him there". He put the receiver down, he said "I am Mr. Bond, I am Vice President of Pan American Airways, happened to be here in town. I just talked with the manager of CNAC and they are expecting you at 11 o'clock at Kai Tak airport, which was in those days a very small, little airport, 90 degrees off of where is today a long jetty one way, which was a sand and grass runway and the CNAC flight would wait for me, or would expect me to be there at 11 o'clock. He then talked to my guard and wanted to be darned sure that he understood exactly: I have to be at the airport 11 o'clock at night for a night flight into Chunking. The flying was always done at night because of the danger of being shot down by Japanese planes, which were right out at Hong Kong, which is the city of Canton, about 60 miles away, which was the base for Japanese aircraft. So to avoid any possibility of being shot down, all flights took place at night. (22:04:41:00) I found out that the CNAC headquarters is in the only high rise building, high rise was 20 stories high in those days in the Hong Kong Shanghai Bank, a very famous landmark of the Hong Kong seen from any ship going through it. My soldier and I got to the eighth floor where the door of the elevator opened and I got out and we saw a very pretty Chinese secretary whose trademark was a typical Chinese dress which goes all the way up to the left side of the skirt, and I asked �where the manager was and she said, "Manager is out", and I said, "What time can he see me?" and she said "He won't be back before Monday, you come back Monday", and I said, "Monday is too late and she said, "Sorry, I can't do anything about it." I told the soldier, "Okay soldier, let's go back to camp, I give up" and as we got out and pushed the button for the elevator, the elevator was seen by the lights to come up from the ground floor to the eighth floor, and as it arrived, I went in with the soldier, and I must have been somewhat absent-minded and worried about what happens now and I collided with a gentleman coming out of the elevator. He looked different from British, immediately I saw that. His tie was loose, he had a jacket over his shoulder, and he said, "What goes on here?" and while I had backed up with my soldier to let the gentleman out, the elevator doors closed and the elevator went down without us. The manager introduced himself as a Mr. Bond, Vice President of Pan American Airways, and that he's just here on a visit to Hong Kong to see if we could extend the San Francisco Manilla service into Hong Kong, there was a flying boat at that time, people may remember that, it was called "The Flying Boat", a four-engined flying boat, and I told the Manager, Mr. Bond, as briefly as I could, as simply as I could in my pretty lousy English, what the situation was, that I have until tonight, midnight, to either get out or be shipped to Colombo, and he said, "Well, maybe I can help", and he grabbed the phone and in what I found out later, was a typical American movement, "Okay, let's do it now, don't let's delay it". The British would have never done that. He grabbed the phone next to him, he got through the operator a connection to somebody, told them briefly my story. He wasn't quite sure that he'd right, that it would be that evening, that midnight, the second day of my 48 hours the British had given me, that I had to leave Hong Kong or at least be accepted by someone firmly, and he asked me once more this question, "Are you sure tonight, you mean tonight, midnight?" I said, "Yes" and then I heard him say that to the other party, and after a while he said, "Okay, he will be there at 11 o'clock. Thank you very much. He hung up, then he told me and I didn't understand – I couldn't quite believe what I �heard, but what I heard was correct. He had gotten me a trip from Hong Kong via CNAC via Chungking to Kunming, China and that I would not have to pay for anything, I did not need a passport, I just get there at 11 o'clock, be at Kai Tak which was the name of the airport as it is today, except the airport today is a long runway built into the harbor and was at that time just a very simple, small runway. I told my soldier, okay, let's go back to camp. The soldier said, "All right, I will tell the officer what happened". And that is exactly what happened. I was at 11 o'clock at night at Kai Tak, I was delivered by the British. FRANK BORING: What happened when you arrived… HERMAN THE GERMAN: … No, no FRANK BORING: Okay, then tell the rest of the trip then. HERMAN THE GERMAN: I left 11 o'clock in a Douglas DC2, which also became quite a famous plane later, because one of its wings got damaged during a Japanese attack and a DC3 wing was attached to that particular plane, so it was called the DC 2-1/2, which is, one wing was a DC2 wing, the other wing was a DC3 wing of somewhat different size, but in those days, one really did not care. That airplane flew from Hong Kong to Chungking. We arrived there at about 5.30 in the morning, about an hour after heavy bombardment by the Japanese. Chungking was burning very badly and I remember exactly that I couldn't possibly believe that Hong Kong, which already seemed somewhat primitive relative to Berlin, now seemed after we landed in Chungking on an island in the Yangtze River, with the runway on an island, the houses were bamboo, and they had bamboo layers, different layers of bamboo so that bombs which had contact fuses exploded when hitting the roofs rather than penetrate into the building. They exploded on top of it, but everything was very, very primitive, the people very simple, no automobiles, and the city as I said, was burning and people tried to put it out, I assume. I was not in the area actually where the houses were burning. We had a brief �lunch on the island, then got back on this plane to fly to Kunming, which was 6,000 ft. high, a beautiful city in Yunnan, in the western part of China, which was the headquarters of the CNAC. FRANK BORING: Could you give us your personal impressions of the burning, what was your reaction. You had seen all these things so far, but so far no real [?]. If you could answer, what was your first reaction to seeing this Chinese city in flames? HERMAN THE GERMAN: It was a terrible reaction when I saw parts of this city burning, because it was a large city, very grey and foggy, the smoke was heavy and drifting over part of the city, and I saw actually flames before we landed, I could see flames burning, but I did not see any people being hurt. I knew, of course, that people must have been hurt or killed, but I did not see it except a terrible impression of a Chinese city in addition to it being burnt, so there were two impressions, a Chinese city being rather primitive and grey, and no street traffic, nothing flowing like I saw in Hong Kong, which was very nice and very modern. FRANK BORING: Once you arrived (inaudible)… HERMAN THE GERMAN: The airfield in Kunming was very primitive, a straight runway out of, consistent with grass and sand ending up at the lake of Kunming, which was quite famous. I should have mentioned that Mr. Bond in Hong Kong, gave me a little card, three by four card, with a little message. "Claire, take a look at this man", signed Bond, and he had explained to me that Claire was the name of an American officer of the Chinese Air Force, Captain Claire Lee Chennault, a name totally unknown here in America, of course, and unknown to me, and he told me, "When you come to Kunming, you will arrive there by noon time, you will have time while you are at the airport, before you go to town in Kunming to stay, you'll find a place to live. We can't help you there, you'll have to do this on your own. Look up this man, he may be able to help you". And so, I did look up, when I arrived, got out of the DC2, at �that time, and I said, "Where would be Mr. …" and then I said, "Captain Chennault", and a Chinese CNAC employee said, "He is over there at that building, that's a Chinese military complex, and there's a Chinese guard outside, but you tell him that you have orders to see Captain Claire Lee Chennault". FRANK BORING: If you could (inaudible) when you walked into that office to meet Claire Chennault. HERMAN THE GERMAN: I went over there, a few hundred yards to that compound, which was guarded by the Chinese who was very polite, he didn't ask me any questions, he couldn't speak English anyhow, and I couldn't speak Chinese, of course. So he let me right through and inside I saw a Chinese and I asked him, "Could you tell me where to go to Captain Chennault, and he said, "Right over there is his door". I knocked at the door, and someone said, "Come in" and I went in. There was a simple table like, Captain Chennault, when he became a Commanding General of an air force, the United States Air Force, still kept a simple table with nothing on it but a telephone and a cup of coffee, and behind it sat a gentleman, looking at me and said, "Can I help you?" and I gave Captain Chennault the card from Mr. Bond, whom I had met in Hong Kong just by pure accident. He looked at me and he said, "You are German I see, what can you do on airplanes?" and I said, "Well, I am a mechanic, also I am an engineer, yes, but I also can do mechanical work, and I understand that you may be able to help me", and he said, "Well, it will be another year, year and a half before we need your help, because we're going to get some American fliers come over here, but in the meantime, you could work for the Chinese Air Force, but there is really no work to be done, because I haven't got many planes. You could pull the chocks away from the wheels and put them back again, but it wouldn't be interesting for you, and if you can somehow get yourself employed, they certainly need a good mechanic around here, I can assure you of that. I could even give you some introductions and then see me again. Find a place where to live, and see me again a year, year and a half from now. �FRANK BORING: What was your first impression ………… (inaudible)? HERMAN THE GERMAN: The man behind the desk who had invited me into his office, this Captain Chennault, was a most impressive character with two black piercing eyes looking at me straight. He did not look to the right, he didn't look to the left, or went up and down, he just looked at me straightforward, and I was not sure whether he understood all my English, which of course, was full of mistakes, but he asked me if I had some proof of my background, and I happened to have kept with me, which the British had not taken away, some of my grades of my Engineering College of Midweiter [?], which I understand you still have today, and I had one engine drawing of a German piston engine, a radial propeller type engine, not a jet engine of course, and he looked at everything very, very carefully. He took my grades, he went through them line by line, although I was not sure whether he could speak English fluently, but the word "chemistry and physics and mechanical strengths" were easily translatable into English, and my grades were "excellent" throughout. With the exception of two which were "good", the others were all rated "excellent" which was the best grade you could have. He looked at me again, he said, "All right, I'll see you, you will find out when we are here, and I'll hope to see you then. In the meantime, you go to that and that place and they will put you up overnight, and there are a few truck firms here in Kunming which operate on the new Burma Road, bringing supplies up and down the Burma Road, and I'll give you a little to one of the managers of that company, and that's what he did. FRANK BORING: Now what was the next [?] or did you think this was your only alternative? HERMAN THE GERMAN: I didn't consider any other alternative, I just followed the line, I didn't even think of the future, what would happen later. I knew that Kunming was connected by a railroad with Hanoi, which was considered one of the seven wonders of the world. It was a very �exceptional railroad by French engineers going out from sea level Hanoi, to 6,000 ft. Kunming. It was running a single track for one time a day, one time daily connection. But the Chinese were afraid, and so was Captain Chennault, that this railroad would be cut by the Japanese, which indeed it was within a month to two months after that, and China had nothing to connect anything – its interior was with the outside world, except the Burma Road, which was not a highway like people may think it was, paved and the width of two trucks wide, nothing like it. It was one a one track hewn into the mountains and about 600 kilometers long to Won Ting which is the Burmese border town through which supplies for China were delivered by the British and the Burmese government, and maybe by the Americans, and which would contain fuel and spare parts for the airplanes which ultimately were supposed to come. FRANK BORING: What was your first employment? What was the first thing that you started to do? HERMAN THE GERMAN: I immediately saw the manager and I was fortunate, all my life I was fortunate, that this manager of the trucking company was there. Number two, that he was a German, and number three, that he worked for a French company. It was Renault Company Trucking Company which had four cylinder, cap over engine trucks, which were just short enough or long enough to pass the very sharp curves of the Burma Road. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Neumann_Gerhard_1991_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann interview (video and transcript, 2 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Gerhard Neumann by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Neumann, known by his American Volunteer Group (AVG) comrades as "Herman the German," was a mechanic and the son of non-practicing Jewish parents. Though drafted into the German army in 1938, he attained a deferrment as a working engineer. He left Germany to seek a job opportunity in Hong Kong in 1939, but upon arrival learned the company had disappeared. Circumstance led him to working for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) where he worked as an auto mechanic. After the Pearl Harbor attack, he accepted an offer from Col. Chennault and joined the AVG. He served among the headquarters personnel as a Propeller Specialist. In this tape, Neumann discusses his journey to Hong Kong to visit the CNAC office and his first meeting with Captain Claire Lee Chennault in Kunming discussing the future of the AVG. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7bbf6e39dad3fdc38d6bc2aacb572730.mp4 34d95867abe1a190310cee422fee5365 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/22679d846d5c2e039394aaeefe61bdc8.pdf 23ad1977fb8b56cfe7890ad1b976cb41 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Gerhard “Herman the German” Neumann Date of Interview: 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] HERMAN THE GERMAN: There were other Germans still in Kunming, there was a German – not an ambassador, but a rank level lower, and a German legation, and there was German university in Kunming, and there were quite a few Chinese who spoke German and learned German, and there was a Lufthansa subsidiary still flying into Kunming, Junkers 52 airplanes with a big swastika painted on the tail, sitting happily and peacefully next to the CNAC plane, an American aircraft. There was a whole group of foreigners who stayed in one hotel in Kunming, many nationalities, French, German, British, Americans, and they had no problem whatsoever with each other. While they were fighting and killing each other in Europe in the war, they lived together happily in Kunming. FRANK BORING: Where did you go for your first employment, then tell us about that. HERMAN THE GERMAN: Renault was my first employer, he operated the trucks over the Burma Road. Because they had technical problems which the Chinese could not fix on the spot because there was no width available for two trucks to pass each other, they asked me whether I would like to go, for pretty good pay, as the only non-Chinese and convoy leader, leading 24 trucks down the Burma Road and then back again bringing gasoline and ammunition and other – �some food supplies, special spare parts up the Burma Road to Kunming. FRANK BORING: Why was it necessary to have a western educated engineer, mechanic if you will? Why couldn't the Chinese just fix their own trucks? HERMAN THE GERMAN: The Chinese mechanics were nice, they were good drivers, those few who drove, but automobiles were not yet very much known in the western part of China. Shanghai yes, and some of those big cities, but the West Yunnan which was one of the most primitive parts of China did not have many educated drivers, and if they could drive, they could not maintain and take an engine apart on the highway which I promised to do, whatever is necessary. And indeed, when I had my convoy going down, on the way down, we burned up a bearing of a piston engine, of a truck engine, and I stopped the convoy and I dropped the oil pan, I worked on the bearing of a piston, of one of these engines. We had no spare parts available on that particular thing. It may be interesting for the audience to know that one of the Chinese had an idea to cut up his felt hat into strips and put felt of his hat around the bearing. I liked the idea and we put it together and a deep convoy completed its trip with a unique type of bearing, all the way down to Burma, to Won Ting in Burma. FRANK BORING: At this time, where were you living ………… HERMAN THE GERMAN: …………… that the word spread around that there is a foreign mechanic ………… FRANK BORING: That's right, okay. ………………a little more to know what happened after you came back from that convoy trip. HERMAN THE GERMAN: When I returned from the Burma Road was all the trucks still on the road, and this is an exception because most convoys lost one or two trucks in the process because there was a very steep drop on �the sides of these very narrow, poor roads. I was told by the German at Renault that the word had spread around that a German mechanic is here to fix cars and we have a list of several people who would like to have their cards checked. There was not necessarily anything wrong, but they would like their cars checked after having gotten it all the way up to Kunming, and there were also Chinese gentlemen like the Mayor of Kunming, the Governor of Yunnan, the Chief of the Police of Kunming. All Chinese officials had big cars, big American cars, and of course the German Embassy, or the German Consulate, and the French and the British and all down there, and I had a hard time hiring enough capable mechanics, and communicate with them. We had no equipment, we didn't even have a firm floor like you would expect a garage to have. When it rained, we were all lying in the water, and I got a bad case of rheumatism in the process down there, lying in the wet and the rain under the cars. But we developed portable bamboo roof, which four men took and put over the car, so when it rained you could work in it and so we the little bamboo roof since we didn't have a big place. But anyhow, the garage business did very well. We had a bad inflation at that time in China, money really didn't matter. I got money, I brought it to the bank, they exchanged it into some American money which was very nice of the bank, because I also repaired the car for the president of the bank of the China National Bank, and he treated me very well. And so I could live nicely in a village for foreigners which was outside of the city wall of Kunming. Kunming in those days had a 360 degree wall with four gates, north, south, east, west, beautiful gates with some nice Chinese curved roof, and these doors or gates were closed at night and opened early in the morning. The foreigners had to live outside. There was one long line along the highway towards the airport, called the "Model Village". It had 67 houses. I got number 67, the last small house. Number 66 was a pilot of the CNAC, an American pilot, Mr. Angle who would was there with Chennault before the Flying Tigers came in, but he stayed with CNAC then joined Pan American later. The house next to him was 65, was Captain Chennault and each of those gentlemen and each �of the foreigners had their own car of course, and I had to take care of all the cars down there. So we were in very close contact, for Claire Chennault had an old Ford, which I think the Chinese gave him. This was probably in worst condition of any of the cars down there, and I had a lot of contact with him, and I admired already Captain Chennault what he was trying to do, and he reminded me every so often that the Americans were coming only a year from year now, then later on only nine months from now, and just before they came, he said, "They are now in Burma, and we'll have some up here by Christmas or before Christmas we will have the planes, the American planes and pilots here, and mechanics and so on, and I would like you to join me by that time." I said, "Okay, I will do that.” FRANK BORING: (Inaudible) HERMAN THE GERMAN: A neighbor of Bob Angle was a very fine gentleman who had married an American nurse in Hawaii, military nurse, and he lived next to me as I said, and brought spare parts for my garage business from Rangoon to which he flew daily with CNAC, Kunming–Rangoon and I had to give them a list in the evening and he brought it back next day and I made him a partner in my garage, so he was a 50–50 partner by bringing the parts up. The house further was Chennault where the Captain, who later was called Colonel Chennault, I think he was a Colonel in the Chinese Air Force, no-one called him Captain any more, we called him Colonel, and the Colonel I liked not precisely what he did, because I didn't know what he did, except that he was trying to train Chinese how to fly, but he left early in the morning, he came back at night, he looked at you straight and he said, "Neumann, I have a little problem here or there", but he kept his house in good shape, and what I really liked about him was the eyes, he looked at you and he, by God, you knew when this man tells you something, you can trust him, which was always a problem when you travelled around the world, you find out that there are a lot of people who tell you things, and they will not live up to it. �FRANK BORING: In terms of the conversations that you had with Chennault prior to the actual formation of the AVG, did he ever let you know about the progress or any of the problems he was having with the formation? HERMAN THE GERMAN: No. Chennault was obviously working besides the Chinese on something for which he said he would like me to be there a year and a half from now when I met him at that timed. I knew it pertained to American aircraft, just like the Germans had shipped German aircraft over to China, but he also had pilots which he mentioned he was in the process of getting together a group of pilots and a group of mechanics. Now, at the same time, as all this took place, the Russians had Russian military aircraft in Kunming helping the Chinese. for a while it was going to be the IVG, the International Volunteer Group, which ultimately, a year from now, would be formed and which I should be a party to it, but when the Germans invaded Russia, the Russians withdrew all the aircraft of the their pilots and pulled them back, and the Germans pulled their [?] back, and suddenly there was nothing but the Americans in the picture, and the Chinese, and out of it came later then, as you know, the AVG as the Chinese American wing later in the air force. FRANK BORING: This is very important for us to understand, that made you want to leave that very comfortable and lucrative life to join up with something that had no precedence before and had no real chance of success, when you look at it from that point of view. HERMAN THE GERMAN: I can tell you that as part of my customers – I had mentioned this before – the Governor Lung Yun, the Chief of Police, the chief of the air force, and the Mayor of Kunming were customers who I had regularly once a month a luncheon in their home, in the Governor's home, because I took care of their cars during that time. They mentioned Colonel Chennault to me as one of the wonderful Americans who they were familiar with. Also I should say that �during operating my garage, the American marines who travelled from Burma to Chungking, to maintain the American warship which was anchored in Chungking, an old-fashioned thing which the Japanese finally sank. They talked about Colonel Chennault as being a great guy and some people would say, "Well, heck, if you join him," – and I told them that he promised that he said, "I'll take you when they come, I'd like you to join," – they'd say, maybe you can become an American and come to America later," Of course, they had no authority, nor did they know anything and I didn't really take it seriously, but Chennault did not promise anything about that he gets me to the States, he just said, "You can help us and the Chinese people very much if you come". And I wondered why the heck Americans, in the German opinion, was that high and were that capable, why they would need a German mechanic, well trained, but I found out later that German training was still, I believe, superior to that what the boys received in the military in the United States. FRANK BORING: During these conversations with the Mayor or with the Governor or anything like that, was it ever brought to your attention that the state of affairs, if you will, of the Chinese military were – at this time the Japanese were winning almost everywhere, the British and everybody was being defeated – what was your impression? Did you ever talk about this, or did they give you any indication of the state of affairs, the situation that China was in? HERMAN THE GERMAN: No, I received my briefings of where the war was standing during the luncheons with the Chief of Police, the chief of the military and the air force, and of course, what people probably don't know is that Kunming was bombed practically daily, beginning at the end of 1940. The Japanese Air Force used Kunming as a target practice, and they were usually three times, nine planes, which is a Vee formation nine, nine was one in front or one in the rear, twenty seven bombers, twin engine bombers which bombed defenseless Kunming, just anywhere. They bombed right down into the city and they never bombed our foreign village where we �stayed but I think only because the target was for them, Kunming, bomb Kunming. They had anti-aircraft gun, which was a German 88 mm gun set-up, with Chinese who had German steel helmets, but it was time they hit a plane which went down, a bomber. But there was out of, nearly daily raids, right on schedule, 10 o'clock in the morning, the Chinese alarm system, which was very, very good, had three balls up on a high mountain, the red ball pulled up first means enemy aircraft are 200 miles away, then the second ball was added to it and said, they are now within 50 miles, the third ball put up, it said don't move any more, don't run around, hide, go in your cellar there, in five minutes you get bombed, and so the three balls alert, you may have read, this came from China, the three ball alert, the three red balls. Whatever you were doing, you looked up there to see if was anything going up on the hills. And so, being bombed for a year before America got into the war, I had a feeling already that bombing, after what I had seen in Chunking which I told you before, I'd seen it from the air, how it was burning, now it was a pretty darn miserable to get bombed on the ground. Particularly when you have no shelters and cement underground buildings like they had in London or they had in Berlin or they had in some other places in Europe, you were just flat, the Chinese buildings were all flat on the ground, there was nothing dug in, except in Chungking where they had big caves, and where one time, by coincidence, you may have heard about that, those entrances to that big central cave, which kept thousands of people in a shelter, they were bombed instantaneously, and the pressure on both sides was so tremendous that their eyeballs popped and the stomach dropped in. It was one of the very horrible things that happened in Chungking when the big air-raid shelters got bombed simultaneously as the exit and the entrance. The bombing was, fortunately for us, done on a regular basis. Every morning at 10 o'clock sharp, the third ball went up already, saying, we're going to be hit very shortly, and thereafter there did not come – the Japanese did not return any more the second time during that day, they waited for the next day. And so we foreigners, not all of us, but those who were interested and who were at home, went to �town, we walked to town to the entrance of the walled city and once we got inside, I saw the full horror of the war. I saw women, who held the baby to their breast, and the women were lying on the floor, split wide open, they were dead already, the babies were still alive. I've never seen so many colors in the human body which were hanging out of the persons who were hit by the bomb splinters and shrapnel and whatever else happened there. There were not only people, there were animals, their big water buffaloes which are used to transport a lot of things in tall carts, were lying dead in the street down there, their four legs up in the air, and war is just really horrible, total sin. America never really saw the war luckily for the American citizens here, but the Europeans have seen plenty of it and the Orientals have seen plenty of it too, and I was glad to be alternately joining those who fight the Japanese Air Force as they come in and do their daily bombing as a target run, and was looking forward to joining Colonel Chennault's people and help them whatever little bit I could. I glad gave up my garage business which had been booming at this point, and one of my chief mechanics was also a German whom I turned over the whole thing to him. I just turned it over and said, "You have it now, I'm going to join the AVG when they come up in December of 1941. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Neumann_Gerhard_1991_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann interview (video and transcript, 3 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Gerhard Neumann by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Neumann, known by his American Volunteer Group (AVG) comrades as "Herman the German," was a mechanic and the son of non-practicing Jewish parents. Though drafted into the German army in 1938, he attained a deferrment as a working engineer. He left Germany to seek a job opportunity in Hong Kong in 1939, but upon arrival learned the company had disappeared. Circumstance led him to working for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) where he worked as an auto mechanic. After the Pearl Harbor attack, he accepted an offer from Col. Chennault and joined the AVG. He served among the headquarters personnel as a Propeller Specialist. In this tape, Neumann describes his first employment while in Kunming working as a truck mechanic for the Burma Road. He also describes the conditions that led up to the formation of the AVG and his motivation for accepting General Chennault's offer to work together. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/365f936d4507e18389afe9ff28368026.mp4 3e6c2fea43f353581cb50e4aa7bc7f46 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5f10ba87027253ea8da3df4e7459b6e6.pdf a160e42b61c77b2d8c92a248ba614cb6 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Gerhard “Herman the German” Neumann Date of Interview: 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] HERMAN THE GERMAN: After the bombing, those of us - just the men - went into town to see what all was damaged. Kunming was not a very city, there were cobblestones down town, then the gates, and the first thing we always looked at, was the gate still there, yes, we found the one gate which we entered was still there. Immediately after entering the gate, we saw already people lying on the street, dead or badly wounded, we saw one woman who had her baby – she had been nursing her baby and the baby was still alive but the woman was dead, she was split all the way through and I saw – I'd never seen before a dead or alive person – how many colors were there in a person between the stomach and the heart and the insides, red and yellow and everything, it was absolutely horrible. There were people without a head and without arms, there were animals there and there were crater, of course, where the bombs hit and war was just plain horrible, and that's the way it always is, you don't see from an airplane. I made many a flight over where we dropped bombs, you don't feel that, the impersonality, but you walk through a city and the buildings, because there was no more glass in Kunming after all these air-raids, they all had paper as windows, they had no more glass, there was no glass available, no glass replacement, and so there were no glass splinters at least. But the rest of the building would just collapse, and then the rebuilding immediately began, the Chinese, right on the same – by noon time, 12 o'clock, the Chinese had streamed back into the city, they had �left early in the morning when the first ball went up that the Japanese are coming again and all went outside, and they came back again and start sweeping together the rubble and the plaster and whatever earth material they had to make bricks out of. They just mixed it with water again, they reformed it and put it out to dry and hoped that the next day, another part of the city would get bombed so that their pieces could go up again. And it was a very tragic thing, the anti-aircraft was inadequate for continuous bombing by 27 bombers like, I said, so the Japanese could do whatever they wanted. They had hit at the power station completely, there was no more electric power available, no more electric light, and food came in in buffalo carts, and then the buffaloes could eat in town, and it was just terrible. (22:43:35:00) I was obvious to us that the Japanese were using Kunming as a bombing practice target, and this was later confirmed during the war when the raids on Kunming had just been discontinued, the regular daily runs, because they had other targets then to bomb like in Burma and Indo-China and other places. But until nearly the end of – until the beginning of the war with America, just a little bit before that time, the raids discontinued. There were also no raids when the weather was bad, but it was very rarely in Kunming which was usually a good weather city. But it was a nasty thing to do on civil population, except that a lot of people did make it out regularly of the 150,000 inhabitants, and it was only a few that just did not quite get out in time with their weird vehicles, wooden wheels, so those who got stuck got killed on the streets, or near the gates. In other words, they were trying to get out through the gate but couldn't quite make it when the air-raid started. FRANK BORING: Let's look at December 8th when Pearl Harbor got bombed and what happened immediately afterwards in terms of your own, the change in your own life at that time. HERMAN THE GERMAN: It was Bob Angle? who had a radio, a short wave radio and he came over to my house and said, "Would you believe it or not, the Japanese have now bombed Pearl Harbor", and I didn't even know �myself where Pearl Harbor was until he said it was in Hawaii, an island, it's a big city and a big U.S. naval base, and he told me already not in detail, but that major damage had been done, that a substantial number of Japanese planes had been shot down, but that he knew that no-one had expected a Japanese fleet of carriers to get so close to Hawaii, that the planes could be launched from Hawaii and fly back again. Manilla was considered a target by us in China. We thought the Japanese would hit Manilla right away, and they already had occupied French Indo-China at this point, so they didn't have to worry about Hanoi or Saigon any more, but Rangoon was going to be a target and the Philippines and then when we got the word that Hawaii got bombed and major damage was done, that was bad news. Although we probably never got the word that the damage was so bad as it really was, I believe the Japanese did – I hate to say it – but I believe they did an outstanding job from their point of view, an excellent job to target and get in and sink those big carriers and ships and battle cruiser and whatever else damage they did. I thought they did a very good job from a Japanese point of view. FRANK BORING: Now what happened immediately afterwards? If you could explain your motivation for leaving a very lucrative business, with a lot of high profile contacts and whatnot, to go to join the AVG. HERMAN THE GERMAN: After the bombing, he told me this story, I asked him if where was Colonel Chennault was going to be and he was not clear whether Colonel Chennault would be in Burma at this time, in Rangoon or in Kunming. Now, come to think of it, I wasn't quite sure myself. I went out to the airport in my own car which I had been given as a present by the Governor for maintaining his car, it was a Peugeot convertible which was not fancy enough for him, but it was a wonderful car as far as I was concerned. I drove out to the airfield, and I either saw Colonel Chennault himself, or another American, an aide who knew about the Colonel's offer for me to join the AVG. And I said, "I'm going to close up this garage in two days as far as I personally am concerned, but I have another German �working for me and I have turned this business, will turn the business over to him, and I'm available in two days to join you. And he said, "There is no great hurry, but you should go to the new quarters, you're going to live in what we call your "hostel one" which was a Chinese military establishment and they would be moved out, or they will be possibly moved out to make space for Americans who are going to come up, who you are going to join. So I moved out and within days already the first ground equipment came up and then the first American fighter aircraft that I had ever seen came up. And they were Curtis P-40B's as you may have heard. FRANK BORING: (Inaudible) HERMAN THE GERMAN: I was asked why would I leave my lucrative garage business and the answer is yes, it was very lucrative, but Colonel Chennault had offered me an American salary in U.S. dollars of something like about $300 a month which was an enormous amount of money so far as money is concerned, while I made at least as much or more in my garage business, it gave me a new opportunity and a growth and I was excited to be with Americans – to meet Americans. I'd now met a lot of Chinese, I got used to Chinese habits, but I'd never really seen any Americans en masse. I'd seen Mr. White who was my employer in Hong Kong, I'd seen Colonel Chennault, I'd seen Mr. Bond in the elevator, I'd seen a few Americans, but I'd never really seen what seemed to be hundreds of Americans going to come, and I was looking forward to that, and I really had no idea, no secret idea about going to the States, but just was – I was a young man at that point – was 24 years old, and it was just exciting to do something different but repair automobiles. FRANK BORING: Let us now go to… HERMAN THE GERMAN: The first troops that arrived –so-called troops who I thought would be uniformed and with military rank insignia and very orderly and walking straight, I was just completely shook up by what really �came up. Very, very nice people, they called me GI, or GI Neumann, or later Herman – Herman the German, that became my name, and those men were wore all kinds of odd uniforms put together, no insignia whatsoever. I couldn't tell the difference between an officer and an enlisted man, so to say, but it turns out that in the American Volunteer Group, these differences really were not very large, except that the officers stayed by themselves and pilots, while the rest of the organization, regardless what rank they had, whether he was a corporal, or a sergeant, or nothing, it didn't exist, there were no ranks, there were no rank insignia. Some people wore civilian clothes, some people wore some uniform, it was the oddest group of people you could possibly imagine, and they immediately took me in immediately, and said, "Hey, tell us about yourself," as we sat at the breakfast table, and someone said, "Hey, shoot the jam, Sam". I didn't know what he says, "Shoot the Jam, Sam?" And a lot of these slogans, which you Americans all understand and are familiar with were actually new to me, and I couldn't get it. But everyone was very, very nice to me, immediately and they said, "Look, I have an extra shirt", someone else said I have an extra pair of pants that may fit you", and they fixed me up and fitted me up and I even got an old-fashioned flat steel helmet which the American military used to wear before World War II, and so the integration with my associates was very, very easy. They immediately gave me handbooks on how to maintain Allison engine, Allison to be a General Motors part, of very clear and descriptive books on what to do in maintenance, and I noticed the boys themselves, not all of them, some of them were outstanding, or very good, but there were some of them there who really were not that good, and not that reliable, and the problems that we developed with the total of, I think altogether, 52 aircraft was about all that came over after the Burmese campaign had ended, there were all left from what was supposed to be 100 aircraft to begin with, the 52 aircraft was very, very difficult to maintain, of course, they did need a lot of repairs. The American boys were very good at replacing parts properly and installing it right, but to repair things was another matter. We in Germany are �trained to repair, we never had the money to buy new parts, new spark plugs, new ignition units or new propeller governors, or whatever and so I became quite well known as, "Hey, Herman come over here, about fixing that, or how about fixing that" and I found out a lot things about American machinery which was not very good, which would not have passed in Germany, and while Americans were always deeply insulted when I said, "Hey, that is not particularly good", it turned out to be true, it wasn't. For example, let me give you an example. You now an aircraft engine of the type we had, the Allison, was V12 aircraft engine, that means there are 12 cylinders in a Vee form, and each cylinder had two spark plugs, one from outside and one from the inside, and if you had to work on the spark plugs inside, or on a propeller governor which was a particularly poor design, which was mounted inside that Vee, and an aircraft came back from a flight in which at this count had some problems, and you had to put your hands in, there were no way but burning your hands completely and I was known, I wanted to show the American boy the good German boy was not afraid of it. I went in with my hands in there and they were completely burned, but once it was burned, it didn't make any difference any more, I didn't feel it any more. To replace spark plugs, and replace this particular propeller governor, was a horrible thing to do it in the quick time of the plane landing, quickly replace it, get it ready for flight again and in a matter of 30 minutes be ready to take off again. And that's when I got my name of Herman the German, and I salvaged a pretty good reputation which I did not know at that time, 'til the day the AVG left on July 4th and I was offered a job as a Staff Sergeant with the promise of promotion to Technical Sergeant very quickly two days after and to Master Sergeant very shortly thereafter, and I ran the whole squadron. FRANK BORING: Before we get into the details of (inaudible)… HERMAN THE GERMAN: To get ready for the reception of the aircraft coming up from Burma, the first squadron, we needed facilities. We had absolutely �no facilities ready, and so we were busy from December 8th, so to say, actually it was December 10, I believe, or December 9th, to set up overall facilities, camouflage, inside trees, we had no hangar, we had nothing. A hangar was going to be built and we made some sketches – someone else did it, I didn't do that. – a sketch of a typical small hangar for fighter aircraft, and we were setting up places, where are we going to pull the engines out, which tree is strong enough to hang a chain hoist or to lift the engine up. You wouldn't believe the primitive situation which we faced. I want to tell you one thing which I think you will be very interested in. the aircraft engine had not only two spark plugs but also has two ignition units a right one and a left one, and they were plastic cases and a plastic distributor rotor they call it, that's in the center of the unit which rotates around, and one of them had a tiny crack that we found after some very difficult maneuvers, and we had no spare part, of course, for such engine, and one of the Chinese mechanics who I'd brought with me – I took some from my garage and some I knew and some I interviewed – some actually came from Hong Kong, whom I'd met, who worked for me in Hong Kong, and since I could speak Chinese a little bit, enough to get along with, I was the one who had to handle all the Chinese – one of the suggested to take the horn of a buffalo, of a living buffalo, probably that had just walked by pulling a cart, and they cut off, they held on to the buffalo, we sawed off with a handsaw, a piece of that horn, then the Chinese fired very cleverly, the shape of that part that was plastic, and they replaced it and that P-40 was flying a full 100 hours before it was sent back to India. Now I'm going to mention the words "100 hours" which may not seem much to you, it is not very much, but for a fighter plan in World War II, at the very beginning, 100 hours in combat is a long time, and it was practically, barely any one airplane that saw that much time before it was replaced by a later group of P-40E's which the Flying Tigers, or the AVG also had. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Neumann_Gerhard_1991_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann interview (video and transcript, 4 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Gerhard Neumann by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Neumann, known by his American Volunteer Group (AVG) comrades as "Herman the German," was a mechanic and the son of non-practicing Jewish parents. Though drafted into the German army in 1938, he attained a deferrment as a working engineer. He left Germany to seek a job opportunity in Hong Kong in 1939, but upon arrival learned the company had disappeared. Circumstance led him to working for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) where he worked as an auto mechanic. After the Pearl Harbor attack, he accepted an offer from Col. Chennault and joined the AVG. He served among the headquarters personnel as a Propeller Specialist. In this tape, Neumann discusses his reactions to the bombings in Kunming and Pearl Harbor, in addition to his motivation for joining the AVG with General Chennault. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ae51590e6af3be9dd6ff50071d56fa46.mp4 61b8ac384d705c1dd396a1897a8652fe https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/07b6338f076295c683d68ee26bb55322.pdf 7fcd8ae15966cd9bc909ea0b0ba324a3 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Gerhard “Herman the German” Neumann Date of Interview: 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 5] HERMAN THE GERMAN: I would say my experience with the Chinese mechanics which had started in Hong Kong and General Motors garage, of course, was that they were very, very capable, very neat and very orderly. I didn't remember any particular occasion of ingenuity which they had, but except for this story I told you before, I had mentioned before, about the bearing in the engine and using the felt of a hat, or the bamboo of a buffalo in the distributor, the Chinese were very, very good at that. It came later that we had no more spare tires, and it came later that we had no more tail wheel tires, and again the Chinese were thinking of wrapping a rope around the tail wheel to make a [?] then take off on a rope, or the Chinese had been very, very good to a point with the delicate business of [?] the electrical instruments, we had no electronics at that time, but the radios and so on, and the repairs we left to the Chinese. When the AVG left and turned it over to the air force, already we had Chinese mechanics, [?] to maintain the very delicate instruments. I have the highest respect for those fellows who were all very thin and you don't think they have that much strength, but their strength – they don't drink, and the American boys did a lot of drinking, but they shouldn't, though some of them should – and they were always very, very gentleman like. I have nothing but the highest respect, I really mean it, for the Chinese people and, of course, for the Chinese mechanics. �FRANK BORING: From that perspective, I'd like you to evaluate and just compare, if you will, the Americans had first started coming in and then the Chinese, and the difficulty you may have had in getting them trained properly to get the job done, which they ultimately did, but there was a period of transition when things must have been very difficult. HERMAN THE GERMAN: I wish I could tell you about any personal feeling I have towards training the Chinese, or what their ability was versus the Americans, it was practically automatically that the Chinese came in, another few, another few, the next morning I met another few Chinese and we took them over to the aircraft with the cowling, we moved and looked at the engine and explained what it is, and I would say that they caught on just as well and as fast as anyone else would have caught on, or better. I really have the highest respect for these people – I said it before – they are very good. The American boys had a lot of guts, a lot of courage, had rank. So far as rank is concerned, being crew chief is the mechanic's rank, or propeller specialist, but the real delicate work was usually taken over to the Chinese, I want to say that. No-one says the Americans were no good, some were no good, we know that, and some were outstanding, but in general the Chinese – I had never seen anyone giving something to a Chinese which did not come out all right, and was returned in good order. FRANK BORING: Let's look at the difference in personality and characteristics between the American mechanics and the Chinese mechanics in terms of you were getting introduced to two foreign groups, introduced to the Americans and their way of doing things. HERMAN THE GERMAN: The Chinese mechanics and the Chinese officers respected anything what the Americans said, and did it as the Americans said, even if they felt differently. I personally felt that the Americans were pretty strong in looking down upon the Chinese. I'll give you an example which I don't say is typical of an American. But many of the American enlisted personnel, who did �not have the education of an American pilot of an American officer, misused the Chinese. I saw the Chinese coolies walking down along the street to the highway to the airfield, and carrying the typical Chinese bamboo stick and two baskets hanging on each side, loaded with meat or whatever they had in there, and I saw American boys in their jeeps or in their station wagons trying to hit one of these basket so that the Chinese would spin around from the momentum which goes around, and I was pretty sick of that particular incident which I saw several times happening. But it was the same fellow, so they weren't all the same. You would never find this in the pilots. I found most pilots as top-notch caliber, also socially. They were decent to the Chinese and treated them well. The enlisted personnel, there was a difference and I could see, if you take it as a whole category, between the officer corps and the enlisted personnel, that these were not – not all – but most of them were not quite of the same caliber and did not treat the Chinese as nicely as I think they should have been treated. But the Chinese did exactly what the Americans said, and how they said it. I did too at first, I didn't know to use my system here, whatever system I had. I did what the Americans said. They came over here and they were Colonel Chennault's boys, and we were one unit later, with the Chinese and the Americans, and I did think as long as the AVG existed, we were one big unit. FRANK BORING: Tell us some more (inaudible)… HERMAN THE GERMAN: I'll tell you something here which you wouldn't say on TV but one time I made very good friends with one good mechanic, a real good mechanic, and one time I made some friends, many Americans of course, they had to do it and I was delighted to do so, and one of the in particular was a good friend of mine and one day he and I walked down to town and followed a very attractive Chinese girl. She was walking ahead of us, and she was dressed very nicely like a home style girl, which she probably was, and the American soldier told me, "I'd liked to bite her in the ass and so that it would drag me to death", and I couldn't figure out what the �hell he is talking about, "biting her in the ass and dragging it to death", I didn't know the word "ass". If I would have understood it, I wouldn't understand why does he want to be dragged to death. This was a typically American expression which I stumbled over many times. I would have to think about what to say now……… FRANK BORING: There were always 300 …………… HERMAN THE GERMAN: You mean by name…………… FRANK BORING: Yeah, just some of the ones that you personally felt ………… HERMAN THE GERMAN: Well you personally interviewed one of them already down there. FRANK BORING: Anyone of them also that may have irritated you or ……… HERMAN THE GERMAN: I made friends with a few of those American boys over there. Some were very fine, some didn't live any more. Bill Sutherland was one who happens to be the AVG garage mechanic, one of the four. Bill Schaper, Bill Schaper was a very, very nice man. He was tall, he spoke well, he didn't cuss as badly as the rest of them do. The American cussing was not taught at German schools so I had to learn what the various terms meant, which I did not know, which is all natural to the American audience, but to me it was strange. But Schaper was a very fine man, and a very good mechanic. He was one of the very, very good mechanics, and he and I worked together a lot, and he taught me some of the things which I should know, I certainly didn't know everything, and he didn't know everything either, but it was very fine teamwork. There was the aide for General Chennault, for Colonel Chennault, was Harvey Greenlaw. He was a senior American officer I assume, a very, very nice man and married to a very pretty – I believe she was a white Russian girl – Olga Greenlaw. Olga Greenlaw had a reputation of being one of the boy's friends, pilot's friends, and disappeared a lot, many times, I don't know about her personal life, but Harvey Greenlaw was always very, very nice and even when �the war was over when I already lived in California and not yet married, Harvey Greenlaw visited me in his Rolls Royce and looked me up and took me out to dinner. He was a very, very nice man, a fine man. FRANK BORING: How about any of the other staff, either like P.Y Shu, the ……… HERMAN THE GERMAN: All right. There were other people in Colonel Chennault's staff like his aide, Shu, Colonel Shu. Now I never knew where Colonel Chennault was necessarily, and I didn't have many messages from him, but if I had any, I always gave it to Colonel Shu, because Colonel Shu saw to it that Claire Lee Chennault got the word, and I got the answer back from Colonel Shu. He was an absolutely reliable man and I've seen Colonel Shu many times, right up to a couple of years ago in Taipei. Colonel Gentry, our squadron doctor, the man I met in – who incidentally swore me in later when the AVG disappeared, and the air force took over. It was Colonel Gentry who made me sign the military papers. He always was good and there was no, what we called, short arm inspection, (you can't use that on television), but there was none as there was in the military later, there was regularly every few months a short arm inspection. But the GI's – the Flying Tigers could walk around town and they sure did. Who was the guy who got fired by Chennault and then the air force didn't take him? No I can't really talk anything about him except that he was so drunk at times that he flew, but he was, he was so drunk that the Chinese had built dummy planes out of bamboo that looked identical, painted on top of the wing and the cockpit and the tail, that from an aerial photograph it looked like a regular airplane, but it was nothing but a bamboo frame. During one air-raid alarm, he went on the dummy, trying to open the dummy cockpit to go and get in, so drunk he was down there. Finally Chennault fired him and the navy didn't take him and the army didn't take him and only the marines took him and he became an ace. But he was an ace already in China, but he was so drunk he was totally unreliable. I can't tell you much about Skip Adair, but he was always very nice, a very, �very fine – very strictly an officer and an enlisted man, so to say, an enlisted man. FRANK BORING: Did you have any contact …… HERMAN THE GERMAN: Did I get to know any of Colonel Chennault's personal staff or other staff? No I did not. I was so involved in personally getting used to Americans and learning English, and doing a good job on the aircraft, there was no one day off a week or anything like that, it was a round the clock deal, with flashlights as there was no electric light – whatever lantern we had and so on – to get the plane ready for the early 4:30 morning take-off time if necessary. What I really suffered under, I was standing running engines within a few feet from the exhaust and my hearing got very badly damaged which showed up years later. FRANK BORING: If you could give us your evaluation of the P-40E as an airplane. HERMAN THE GERMAN: Of course, when the Americans brought planes in, they were all P40B's. I had never seen anything else but an American fighter aircraft, but the P-40B. It was clearly identifiable by two or three things. One of them was the shape of the individual exhaust stack which was round on the P-40B, while it was flat and long on the P40E which reduced the exhaust flame, which in a night fighter is a very important thing because a following plane can easily aim at the aircraft from the exhaust flames he sees in front. I also heard that the P-40E had about a 100 horse power more than the B engine, so that there would be quite a difference. But the big thing we saw was that two 30 caliber machine guns were mounted in line with the engine on top of the engine rather than six machine guns in the wing. This particular B had two 30 calibers and four 50's. The four 50's were two and two on each wing, while the two 30 calibers were shooting through the propeller. I don't think I ever saw a P-40 which did not have a bullet hole through the propeller, which in America would mean condemnation right away, it's not safe enough to fly, and in China, we didn't have another propeller, �so we had to fly them anyhow, and just fire the bullet hole which this own pilot, his own gun, shot through its propeller bed. This happened during a dive or during an over-speed condition, beyond what they call a red line on an instrument. Each throttle of the P40's we had in combat had a little safety wire so that you shouldn't push any further. You could push further and you could get more power out of these engines but you shouldn't do that. If you found a plane when it returned which t had the safety wire broken, which indicated the pilot shoved the throttle forward, than plane was taken right out of commission and a certain mechanical features had to be overhauled and checked, what else could have happened. But the P-40B, when it was used in a dive, in a dive either to attack a Japanese plan, or to get away from a Japanese plane, in any case, if the pilot at the same time fired a gun, fired through an accelerated speed instead of shooting through the gap, which is then between one blade and the other blade of the three bladed propeller, it hit the propeller blade right through the hub, and it got a beautifully, nice 30 caliber hole through each of the propeller blades, and many aircraft kept on flying. We just fired them nicely until we got some spare parts later. FRANK BORING: Tell us if you can, what examples, what had to be done to bring one of these planes that came in from combat, back into combat. Any examples you might have, and this is one of them – supply problems and all that – incorporated in your answers. HERMAN THE GERMAN: One of the greatest number of repairs, and quite difficult to perform, was the propeller governor. I don't know whether you are familiar with the propeller governor but with a three bladed propeller, the blades rotate not only this way with the engine, but the pilot can adjust the rotation of the blades during take-off and during climb, you have a different turning angle, than later when you cruise for better efficiency, or in a dive when they go even more different. This was an automatic gadget which was held on by four nuts, inside the engine right between the Vee of the aircraft. This was the most frequent of faulty unit, which the pilot, �when it was faulty, could operate the control, but the blades did not change, and it happened because there was a slight oil leak inside the unit which needed oil for lubrication, which got between the electric contact points. There was a point up or a point down. Point down has a contact here, point up has a contact there, and if any one of these points got a little full of oil, which as hot oil in there, it did not make contact, it did not rotate the blade, and that thing, I would say that about every fifth to sixth flight, this unit had to be taken out, washed in gasoline, taken apart and put back in again. To do this in 25–30 minutes between combat and back again, was a very, very difficult thing, and you could not fix that unit that quickly. You took another unit, you slapped another unit in, put it in, four nuts on it, electric wiring on it, a cowling on, and "Here pilot, off you go again". He started the engine and off it went. FRANK BORING: Where did you get these …………… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Neumann_Gerhard_1991_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann interview (video and transcript, 5 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Gerhard Neumann by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Neumann, known by his American Volunteer Group (AVG) comrades as "Herman the German," was a mechanic and the son of non-practicing Jewish parents. Though drafted into the German army in 1938, he attained a deferrment as a working engineer. He left Germany to seek a job opportunity in Hong Kong in 1939, but upon arrival learned the company had disappeared. Circumstance led him to working for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) where he worked as an auto mechanic. After the Pearl Harbor attack, he accepted an offer from Col. Chennault and joined the AVG. He served among the headquarters personnel as a Propeller Specialist. In this tape, Neumann discusses his impressions of working with the Chinese and American people and his evaluation of the P-40 airplane. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c0fc6c7bb5ed75af0939022db2ef0533.mp4 e96f44c2c2169589be5c0274748872c5 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fc12026d8c6115dc15f18c8242943dbc.pdf d86e208d6ef5788a12dc3dbb27644879 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Gerhard “Herman the German” Neumann Date of Interview: 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 6] HERMAN THE GERMAN: ……… The repairs necessary on the aircraft of the American Volunteer Group consisted of two parts. One, due to enemy action like bullet holes in the fuselage, and the other one was fundamentally in the design of the Curtis airplane which had a retractable landing gear, which was just modern at that time, but often got stuck and so did not work, and so between landing gear operation, landing gear which had to turn, which in later aircraft was just in and out, the American system was with wheels and you had to rotate it and then fold it back into the rear, and this mechanism was a very complicated one, and which was later abandoned as the war went along. But landing gear problems and bullet hole problems, plus instrument failures. A lot of the instruments of altitude or speed, or engine RPM, that means how fast does the engine turn, a lot of those instruments failed much prematurely than they should have failed. But a bullet hole in the fuselage was somethin' which, of course, you couldn't help. This was due to – you developed a fighting tactics and in order not to fight with the Japanese, not to give them a chance to get behind you. However the American aircraft, a P-40 had armor plating behind the pilot's seat, and had self-sealing fuel tanks. This is inside a sticky stuff, which when it's penetrated by fuel, will swell up and close up automatically. This is what the Japanese planes incidentally, did not have at the beginning of the war. They had no armor-plating, they were therefore much lighter, armor plating is �very heavy, and had no self-sealing tanks, therefore they had much bigger fuel capacity. In the same space, they could put all fuel rather than an inch thick layer all-around of cover against leaking fuel. And so the Japanese aircraft weighed about one half of that of an American aircraft, 4,300 lbs. – I happened to know because I put one together later – for the same horse power of engine. And therefore, the Japanese pilot had a much easier time to climb steeply, to climb faster, to fly higher, to do all kinds of things. One thing a Japanese plane could not do as compared to the American plane, was to dive. A Japanese plane is so light, that when they start diving, they start wobbling, the wings, and the wings started shaking, and an American plane is solid like a rock. When that pilot goes on a nose down there, he goes down except for the danger of over speed, if you over speed, then you have to pull the engine out, and if the pilot pushes too fast, he goes down too fast. But bullet hole riveting – we didn't do a beautiful job, it wouldn't win a prize in a beauty contest, but it meant one man crawling into the fuselage which was very difficult and another man with a hand drill, we had no electric equipment, was drilling holes through it, putting a patch on it, cutting it out, where did we get it from? Where did we get the metal from? Simple things like metals. We had a wreck, and then we had another wreck, and maybe a plane was shot down. Maybe twenty miles away which is a long distance in China which had no highways, and you'd strip it, either drag it by buffaloes or ox cart, bring it in, then take it all apart to make little shelves to look like [?] or having shelves for some spare parts, anything which we possibly could use, including the metal, to cut up some metal. Another bad thing were tires. The runways were so rough in China, all from big rocks, next layer was smaller rocks, and on top finally, gravel, which was chopped up by women, 10,000 women sitting down there. Then the propeller blast blasted those little gravels in the rear, and the first thing to go are the radiators. You have an oil cooler, you have an engine, liquid coolers, not water but it is Prestone, they call it, a liquid which can go a little higher temperature, and they started to leak. You couldn't get any spare parts on any radiator coolers because if any �crashed, they were the first to go. The propeller goes, the landing gear goes, and the radiators go. The rest of the blade may still be okay. And so we strip it one by one and have one hangar clean which is done, and then another one, and we kept through the six months of operation, pretty well. By that time already P-40E's came in and the last two weeks prior to the takeover by the China Air Task Force, spare parts began to come in for the P-40E. FRANK BORING: During the ………… HERMAN THE GERMAN: No, how shall I get the sentence going? FRANK BORING: If you didn't know of any, or didn't see ……… HERMAN THE GERMAN: No, I did not know any failures because of that, pilot error, yes. And when the AVG left and I stayed right in Kweilin, the rest of the group, of course, left for the United States and only 34 altogether members stayed, including some of the pilots and three squadrons split up. There were about three or four per squadron which stayed in there and I was left with four planes in Kweilin all by myself. They said, "See what you can do with it", then the first American regular mechanic came over there who later worked for American Airlines in Tulsa. We became good friends. FRANK BORING: Mechanical things that had to be done to taxi, take off, the instruments ………… HERMAN THE GERMAN: The P-40's as we said before, were the only planes the AVG had where the same standard equipment as the next plane, which happened to be a north American P51, which was a very good plane. The pilot had the stick, of course, to control, had a trigger on the stick to shoot, and we mechanics, we crew chiefs as I called it, it sounded a little better, every morning and every evening, taxied the plane into a hidden area and in the morning at 4:30, we went out on trucks, which usually I drove, the other mechanics sitting in the rear, because there was no gasoline in the truck. The truck was �driven with gas, you had to pre-heat that thing to get gas cooking and then get gas inhaled into the engine rather than vapor of gasoline, you couldn't do that. And then we'd run the engines up in their [?], watched the color of the exhaust flames of the individual stacks and you could see at night when it's dark or in the evening or early in the morning, when you enriched the mixture which is inhaled by the engine, which you do normally for take-off, during take-off, you fly enriched. Then you cruise, you pull the mixture control, they pull that back, it's a separate lever, mixture control, and you can watch the individual flames, the color of the flames. If they are worked properly and how each cylinder in itself works, the same will be done two times on a right mag, which is the magneto on the engine side, the other one on the magneto on the outside, so there are two mags. The pilot switches to right, left, then takes off with both, both magneto's on both. The mixture's on rich, you want to have a nice, big, yellowish, reddish flame coming out of each exhaust stack. If that does not happen, you look at the clock and see if you have time enough to change a spark plug because that's the only thing that you can do in a great hurry. To take an engine apart and put it together again, is a matter which takes anywhere from five days to six days, working around the clock and the plane is out of commission. We had no spare engines whatsoever to shove another engine in. Furthermore, it may interest you that it took seven to eight hours to replace an engine in an American plane. It took forty minutes in a Japanese plane. And this is one fundamental thing which the Japanese had done much better. All electrical connections in American planes had to be safety wired and screwed to get at each individually. All the fuel lines, all the pressure lines, all the temperature devices and all the instruments which maybe amounted to 25 to 30 between the fire wall which is ahead of the pilot and the engine sticking out. It took about 20–25 minutes for the Japanese who with one lever, pulled all connections that had been stationary here, hinged on the other side, put down, had to snap on and that's the whole thing. So we have not done such amazing work here in America. I hate to say it but, I tell you, the German aircraft was like the Japanese, the �Japanese copied from the Germans the same system of getting it together. I believe the British were better, but finally you may – it may not be part of your story – the engines were changed to Rolls Royce, the P-40's later got Rolls Royce engines, no more American, Allison got out of it. FRANK BORING: If you could physically show us in terms of what needed to be done. You said about the gauges and you talked about the flames coming out, what else needed to be checked? HERMAN THE GERMAN: The other things to be checked are very difficult for any mechanic on the ground to see. It depends on the report by the pilot, on his prior flight, what does not work in the air, since we have the airplane sitting on the ground, and the only thing we can watch are the flames and running. We can't tell whether any speed instrument or anything like this is accurate or works, or whether the wheels pull in because we can't pull up the airplane except we have some special tools later made in China to support the wings but this is several days of operation to check the landing gear or repair them again. We really depended on the pilot's report, and it's done very orderly, after each flight the pilot stays in the cockpit, takes his log book out and fills in what flight, what number, what did not work. That is the order then, he goes and briefs the headquarters and General Chennault about whatever he shot and whatever he saw, we mechanics immediately get the log book, that's the bible, and from the log book, whatever is not written in, is not going to be touched. We had no time to play around down there in a war, to do anything else. We go on the log book. The pilot said, "this gauge is out, that does not work, the engine does not accelerate fast enough, those things, of course, we tried to do as good as we can in the dim light and the little time available, and with no new parts there, and that is often a very tricky thing. FRANK BORING: (inaudible) �HERMAN THE GERMAN: Working on an airplane is something which you do as much as you can in the daytime. You have daylight, even if it rains, at least you can see what you're doing. Then when it gets dark, you have hand held flashlights, which are very, very difficult to do, one man can't do it. One man has to hold the light, another one has to perform the work. It is much easier said than done to hold a light steady and shine on a particularly narrow spot in which a man works. The work has to be done perfectly because if you take any lines which leak and you don't seal properly because you have no gaskets in properly. You don't safety wire. Do you know what safety wire is? In an airplane, any connection has a thin wire which is twisted through it and put in such a position that by itself the nut cannot loosen itself under the vibration of the engine. All the safety wiring, and all this has to be done, and you tell the fellow, "Hey, shine over here". At this the Chinese were wonderful incidentally. We usually used Chinese for that because Americans said, "To hell with it, here you do your own." But the Chinese would come and would hold it steady and hold it there while I'm doing the tightening and the maintaining or the exchanging of parts. So it was very difficult to do anything at night against the advantage at night is that you see the flame of the exhaust. It was the only real thing you can do in a few hours you have available per aircraft. We couldn't take from the 52 aircraft existing or 50 aircraft that became 45 later, and take an engine out of commission just to overhaul it and to do something. Unless it's written up in the book, nothing would be done. FRANK BORING: Let's go to [?] what you saw. HERMAN THE GERMAN: All right, I have been subjected to bombing of course, all before, although it was usually, as we've said, Kunming down town was bombed but not our area specifically, but sometimes there was a hang up bomb or a pilot released his bombs a bit later, and then one went right over Model Village, they hit Model Village several times. You in the meantime, sit up and watch your airplanes at 20,000 ft. usually coming in, there was very clear blue sky, they're �coming over and they are past you already when you begin to hear the whistling of the formation of the formation of bombs coming down, a whole bunch comes down, and they are moving on the ground at the speed of the aircraft, which is something like 200 mph at that time. AT that time you start digging into any depression that you can find. No-one will stand up, everybody lies flat and if you are afraid, you don't look up, if you are not afraid and want to see what hits you, you see the bombs come down. Although Kunming was the center of their target until December 20 raid, often the bomb didn't fall free immediately at the plane, and if it was just a split second later, it was outside of the city wall and could well be over Model Village, which was, of course, only if the plane flew over Model Village. But lying on the ground and knowing that the planes already had passed overhead, you then wait for the formation, for the whistling of the bombs as they come down. They, of course, come down at first instant at the speed of the airplane, then they are dropped down, and very quickly down full vertical, and you hope that you are not in line, or you can tell that you are away from it that may be half a mile or a quarter mile away. But if you are sure, if the weather is bad and you don't see really clear, or one formation flies there and another formation flies on the other side, you darn well better lie down in any depression and any hole and any ditch, next to any road the Chinese had built has a protection, you dig and everybody feels like digging with their fingernails and even the least feeble man will dig in when the bombs start screaming as they are coming down as you feel the explosions and hear the explosions that's coming down at the sped of the plan as they go overhead, and you hopefully you are missed as they drop a bomb there, they drop a bomb on the other side. But luckily, I was never – but several people didn't make it, got hit by bombs on the ground. Then came December 20th, and here were first American fighter aircraft lined up or already flying with the alarm. And the Japanese obviously did not have the report. They had the report that planes were there but did not have the report, I believe that the planes were actually taking off already in an altitude to wait for the Japanese. Usually �when they are fifty miles away, we start taking off and start climbing up to about 20,000 ft. whatever the report says. And that was a great day when you stand there and while the Japanese, stubborn as they are, and aren't afraid of death, or maybe they are afraid of death but don't show it, they keep on flying to their target, the target this time boys, the airfield, the runway strip, hopefully any planes on the ground. Chennault's idea, of course, was to have all the planes in the air, or if they are not all needed din the air, take off and fly to some other airfield nearby. And then when you know you are not in line with the bombs, you stand up, you cheer for your plane as your P-40's go over there and you hear "eeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" and then there's a firing of the guns, you can hear that clearly split seconds before you hear because it takes a while to come down, but you can see it because every fourth or fifth bullet is a tracer bullet which gives you a line, which gives the pilot a line of fire, so that he doesn't have to look through his little site to hit the other plane. He just follows his tracer bullets into the other plane and there's great delight if we could see one Japanese plane after the other before, because they stubbornly went to the target. If they had gone up before, banked the wings and gone back to Hanoi wherever they came from was one thing, but they had orders to come and bomb the airfield so they went to the airfield and our planes of course took advantage of that and as the planes were known not to bank but to fly to the airfield, we could come from below, and then banked after dropping the bombs wide open, they could not shoot back, they were wide open, and a lot of Japanese planes just absolutely exploded because, as I mentioned to you once before, they had no armor plating, no self-sealing tanks or anything like that, no protection. We had these bullet going through and besides, America, I would say this for America, we had the best guns, we had superior machine guns. The Japanese had 20 mm canons in a Zero which we faced down there, but they were very slow, like dada-da-da-da and the American goes “Bruuuuuuuuuuu!” down there and it's really fantastic and if a pilot is lined up properly then that Jap has no chance whatever. �FRANK BORING: Describe if you could the reaction after the battle when they flew in and landed. HERMAN THE GERMAN: Of course, then the old-fashioned, I think pre-war American system was a victory roll and while in the early days, Chennault let the boys do that, later he told them, "Cut this out" because we endangered the plane at low altitudes to make it roll, plus you used more gasoline. We were so short of gasoline that we just couldn't do anything extra, but the cheerful, if we knew that plane number so and so, they had big numbers on it, and we stood there with glasses and would say, "Hey, there's number 48, 48 is going to get ‘em!", and the plane in front of me explodes or goes down, starts spinning down… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Neumann_Gerhard_1991_v06 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann interview (video and transcript, 6 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Gerhard Neumann by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Neumann, known by his American Volunteer Group (AVG) comrades as "Herman the German," was a mechanic and the son of non-practicing Jewish parents. Though drafted into the German army in 1938, he attained a deferrment as a working engineer. He left Germany to seek a job opportunity in Hong Kong in 1939, but upon arrival learned the company had disappeared. Circumstance led him to working for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) where he worked as an auto mechanic. After the Pearl Harbor attack, he accepted an offer from Col. Chennault and joined the AVG. He served among the headquarters personnel as a Propeller Specialist. In this tape, Neumann describes the primary aircraft repairs he worked on for the AVG and his perspective on witnessing the battles and bombings that were taking place there. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0a06ff47f8daa71bc4bd33de5b7184b1.mp4 6d5037c463ccd839311a9ebdeb447c30 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0109e6d3cab39e1eb615a9adf9de5d40.pdf 6edd93831f01d94ba8f2bc08e35f4eef PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Gerhard “Herman the German” Neumann Date of Interview: 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 7] HERMAN THE GERMAN: When we had that third alarm out there, we were out at the airport, our P-40's were up in the air, we all ground crew stood there, near a ditch to jump in if necessary, and we watched the formation of the Japanese come in. They were unescorted by any Japanese fighter aircraft, but they flew their V9 formation or whatever, nine and eighteen planes, whatever it was, I think the twenties or it was nine airplanes came I believe at that time, one of the Vees and as the Americans start diving onto the Japanese, we could hear this screaming of the American engine as from a higher altitude they gained on the Japanese. Furthermore, the Japanese, I believe I mentioned this once to you, kept on flying to the target as directed. If they lost one plane or two or three on the way, they still would come, and so then they had to make their turn after that airfield and that was the place where the Americans did get, and could get, and should have gotten the Japanese planes, and they did, and four planes went down, smoking and another one exploded in the air, others smoked oil and spun down into the ground, and that, of course, was a great moment for us on the ground, and all the Chinese cheering, now they had seen the first Japanese bombers go down, four of them down there altogether on that flight of nine I believe, eight were shot down because right out of sight, another ten miles further, another twenty miles further, they shot down another of these Japanese planes. And when the pilots came down, the crew chief ran out, the other guys' crew chiefs and the Chinese �came out and they all hugged each other and there was great excitement for the first time. Then the Japanese came two days later, I believe it was two days later that there was a second raid, and this system of one time something, then coming back two days later, the Japanese maintained stubbornly, be it over Chungking or Kweilin or wherever it is, but they came. We knew two days later they would come again and that helped us a great deal to quickly perform whatever maintenance we had to do, they came two days later and by god, there they were again. The alarm system, the alert system incidentally was absolutely superior in China. It was primitive but plenty of space available. The Japanese had to fly over hundreds of miles from where they left to the target then back again, so they were exposed, they had really a disadvantage. We never flew, during the AVG days, over non-Chinese territory, it was all over Chinese territory, except Burma actually. FRANK BORING: Give us if you will, the second time the crew chiefs and the Chinese …………… HERMAN THE GERMAN: Of course when they came back it's two days later, we had never known that they do that, that they come back two days later, so here they came again, and again, no fighter escort, and again only twin-engined bombers, and they were good but particularly fast, heavy, they did their job all right but Japanese pilots were not there for them, they did bravely what they were supposed to do, but the Americans got the second time again, this time they knew already from the first time, they got another eight planes also, six planes, or five planes, I do not know exactly how many planes, but there again, of course, it's the same thing. Now we waited two days later, would they come again, but this time they didn't come, and it was the last time they came without a fighter escort as far as I'm concerned. I am not seeing any more big air attack, massive attack without 60–70 Zeros zig-zagging over and trying to protect them against American planes which they did. FRANK BORING: After the second ……… �HERMAN THE GERMAN: No, not during the AVG days. FRANK BORING: Where did you go next? What was the reaction of the Chinese population? HERMAN THE GERMAN: The Chinese of course delighted, they had seen this before and they knew the Americans now, the word spread quickly, the Americans are here, and the P-40 had not yet, I believe the P-40 had a shark's mouth painted on, it was not yet called the flying Tigers, did not yet have the Disney Vee with the tiger with the little wings on there. So they had shark's mouths on and there were three squadrons, only the one squadron came up first during to the December 20 raid, December 22 raid I believe was the first Pursuit squadron which was there, we then moved in as we lost Burma, we as the British, lost Burma and with it the Americans lost their base, they also brought their planes up to Kunming. In the meantime, the first squadron was moved up to Chungking to Pai [?] Chi Ye, is the airport outside Chungking, and I was asked to go with a convoy, drive in a big truck, international, I think, trucks they were, up with the equipment up to Pai [?] Chi Ye. We were barely in Pai [?] Chi Ye setting up the same would be now in learning to set up, in Kunming how to set up the plane if necessary and camouflage the huts and so on, I got orders to move to Kweilin, and there we were, we flew, instead of driving down we flew with one of CNAC's planes and had been drafted I guess, a Chinese pilot, a very good Chinese pilot, I forgot his name right now, but he was very good, he stayed there a long time, he was well known and well liked, and he flew us into Kweilin, and Kweilin had been bombed once before but not badly, and as we moved in, of course, the Japanese came, because Kweilin was relatively close to Canton, on a straight railroad line so that you could bomb Kweilin also at night, but the Japanese did not during the AVG days, bomb Kweilin at night, this came later. FRANK BORING: Was that pilot Moon Chen by any chance? �HERMAN THE GERMAN: Right. Moon Chen, that's right. FRANK BORING: The next combat that you saw, were you again exposed to the Japanese bombers coming over? HERMAN THE GERMAN: Yeah, oh yeah. FRANK BORING: Okay, let's talk about the next incident, tell us where it is and when. HERMAN THE GERMAN: Kweilin, Kweilin. FRANK BORING: Give us a date also. HERMAN THE GERMAN: I could not give you the day, but we were down… FRANK BORING: The year. HERMAN THE GERMAN: Yes, early '42 of course. Early '42 Kweilin and all the six bombers were shot down during that raid, I know one raid was June 30, or another raid was before that but they came every few weeks, some Japanese planes came over then they came sometimes with fighters only, to strafe and they did burn up some American planes which did not get in the air, I think this was during the AVG days. We looked at one of the wrecks, it looks miserable. FRANK BORING: Don't be so concerned with the dates and the times and all that. What we're looking for is getting the (inaudible), don't worry about how many planes …… HERMAN THE GERMAN: After we moved to Kweilin, nothing happened in Chungking. We were only there a few days, we got also rid of Kweilin. Kweilin is a lovely town which has a very nice river and mountains and a lot of [?] farms and we had a wonderful runway which had been built �by the Chinese between the narrow mountains, it was very well protected. There were some very good caves which Colonel Chennault occupied with a big map inside, and a big circle of Kweilin and 50 miles, 100 miles, 150 miles, which was plotted by the Chinese who had earphones and connections with listening on the way in Canton and Kweilin and so we could follow very closely how many, where the Japs were. There was never the exact number, that sounds like 20 planes or 15 planes or someone said, "I know the number". It was above the clouds but the sound was followed through and was plotted along, and we were old soldiers at that point. We had been bombed a lot, I had been bombed with the rest of them, because I had been bombed before the AVG came up, but then we became just routine, we would not leave – normally we would have left the airport if we had another 15 or 30 minutes to go, but this time now, we were soldiers and we were paid to be soldiers, and if necessary, get killed in the process. But you stayed there and you swung around and you watched them and you prayed for your American pilots and our pilots, which at that time we had remaining, that were alive that were all excellent, really were very, very good, and we all cheered for them and we could watch them, particularly when there was dog-fighting developed which we hoped would not take place, but was okay until I got that Zero in flight, and I said no more dogfights at that point. Up to that point, the American flight instructions I guess were dogfighting, although Chennault himself was kind of worried about this dogfighting business in general versus the smaller, lighter Japanese planes. FRANK BORING: (inaudible) HERMAN THE GERMAN: The hectic day operations began very early in the morning, the planes were still dispersed so that they couldn't be exposed for night bombing, then we checked them out, then we fixed whatever had to be fixed up, brought it back onto the flight line. Then came a period of rest, not hectic at all, the truck came with sandwiches and eggs, because that's all you got in China was eggs and �chickens and chickens and eggs, that's all you got all the time. A truck came with breakfast for the pilots and the crews and some coffee. Now we stayed out there by the airfield, ''til word came okay, which Chennault had plotted with either Adair or with whomever, to attack now Canton or to hit that air base. They got intelligence information, the Japanese got more new planes from Japan to Canton, so they said, all right we'll leave at 1:30 and these times were given us ground crews very late, so to avoid any possible leakage of anything, or God knows what we'll want, and then we helped the planes in the air, and then again we had rest for about an hour and a half and by that time we saw on a map, on a plotting map there, "returning", and then someone said "how many, how many, returned". We knew 18 left or 15 left or 12 left, rarely that many, rarely that many. I think at most five or six aircraft – that was all we could afford at that point, and to keep the other six in reserve, that if they come over and follow our returning planes, that is usually the technique, then the enemy comes and follows right in, just as they come down to land and to refuel and can't stay in the air anymore, then the enemy comes down, so we have to get the second bunch up there and they are ready to get up before they could hurt those planes on the ground, and that you did, you stayed until it got kind of dark and you say, "well, they won't come any more now, let's go back home, or let's taxi the planes back". So the pilots went home again to listen to this one record player we had, an old hand crank record player in the Kweilin area, for the pilots, where they were a little fancier than the enlisted personnel and all the crew chiefs, so to speak, we took the planes away, stowed them all, then I, who was driving the truck, went from plane to plane to pick up the crew chief who put it there and said, "Are you okay?" and so and so and would slowly got all the people together, we got back home again, listened to the record again, that one record, "Ramona, da da da da da da da", that was our standard record, played over and over again with that old needle on there. And then we waited either for a night attack which did not come in the AVG days, but came later in the military, but waited for the next day. At 4:30, up again, out back to the field, so you had your seven day �occupation, never a day off or anything like that. It was around the clock. FRANK BORING: What was the morale like of the crews, given the fact that this was a daily grind, seven days and constant pressure of attack and whatnot? HERMAN THE GERMAN: I was surprised at first when I first heard about several pilots and several crew chiefs leaving around March or April. I thought it was terrible, on the other hand I had absolutely no idea what their contractual agreement was that they would stay, which I found out later that they were just dishonorably discharged. Why they left, what went on I was not a party to it whatsoever, but, directly nor indirectly I just know that certain people left, how they got home, if they got home, if they desired to get home, I don't know because the word came that in the meantime, Americans in Iran are building big supply centers for the Russians, and that now they are looking for American mechanics to work on Iran's side to help the aircraft either return to the States or fly to Russia, and so I assume that they thought they would make it good money there, which they may have gotten as not the regular military. I assume that the military in America cannot draft you unless you are on the soil of the United States, which is, I think, rather stupid. I think under the German system, if you're an American you get drafted, that's it. But here in American you have to be on American soil, there's is Congress Act so and so. So otherwise, the morale was good, they all waited for July 4th to come around, and when I myself knew that my days were numbered, it never occurred to me that I might stay in the military, or be accepted by the military, I had never been to the United States, and so I saw the General on the 2nd of July, I believe it was the 2nd, I said, "Colonel, I thank you very, very much for your help, it was very interesting. I'll go back to Kunming to my garage". He said, "No, you won't", I said, "What do you mean I won't" and he pulled out of his pocket a pink piece of paper [?] and "You have permission to enlist, Herman Neumann as Staff Sergeant, so and so and so and so into the military" So I �said, "Thank you very much, I will stay here", and I was promoted immediately to Technical Sergeant, then Master Sergeant. FRANK BORING: Were you present during the two week period after the finishing of the ……… HERMAN THE GERMAN: Of course, of course I was, right at Kweilin. I was there when within the two weeks following July 4th, several of the Americans volunteered to stay over for two weeks. I should have mentioned to you that the Chinese at Kweilin gave us a huge town party which was a party that we were picked up by trucks and they had beautiful girls from Hong Kong and from wherever, each soldier was escorted by one Chinese girl and by God, there was real excitement and then the city gave a big dinner and a banquet of Chinese food and desert, and some singers, some children playing there, and then a speech in English, thanking the Americans for all they did for Kweilin and hoping they'd have a safe return and wishing them the very, very best. The Kweilin citizens were really wonderful, so was Kunming too. Chungking I think was too big to be that personal, but Kweilin was a very personal matter, and they certainly appreciated that. During these two weeks, it was just the US Air Force began to come in, and there was a Lt. Col. Holloway, Bruce K. Holloway. I believe he came quite early. He became our group commander and Bob Scott, Robert Scott, who wrote the book called, "God is my Copilot" maybe he preceded him. I do not know exactly how this was, but we didn't see the difference, it just went on the same way. American pilots came in, I got suddenly a 2nd Lt. as engineering officer who knew nothing about an aircraft, who immediately took me aside, and said, "Sergeant, I know nothing about airplanes, will you take me now and tell me what we should do". And so it went, this was what the professional military came in. This man came back as a major, a second round into China, and then I saw him in Vietnam as a full colonel. I personally have never heard about Gen. Bissell, except that Gen. Bissell came to try to recruit American Volunteer Group people about a week or ten days before July 4th, 1942, and Gen. Bissell �was a brigadier general at that time, commander of the 10th air force in India and our unit was approached to be in China under the command of Gen. Bissell. Those people who were still over there, the 250 people, loved Col. Chennault, who was offered a generalship, but deliberately a day later than Gen. Bissell and Bissell then had priority that we or he would have been under the command of Gen. Bissell, although they gave us the title China Air Task Force beginning July 5th, that didn't help very much, no-one could stand Bissell, and not only did we not like Gen. Bissell, but the little Chinese kids, standing along the side of the road, holding up a finger, saying "Piss on Bissell, piss on Bissell." They didn't know what they were saying. He came over and saw all the kids saying "Piss on Bissell" down there, it must have been quite a depressing view and I don't think he ever came back again. And he was not sorry when Chennault got his own command in the 14th air force. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Neumann_Gerhard_1991_v07 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann interview (video and transcript, 7 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Gerhard Neumann by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Neumann, known by his American Volunteer Group (AVG) comrades as "Herman the German," was a mechanic and the son of non-practicing Jewish parents. Though drafted into the German army in 1938, he attained a deferrment as a working engineer. He left Germany to seek a job opportunity in Hong Kong in 1939, but upon arrival learned the company had disappeared. Circumstance led him to working for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) where he worked as an auto mechanic. After the Pearl Harbor attack, he accepted an offer from Col. Chennault and joined the AVG. He served among the headquarters personnel as a Propeller Specialist. In this tape, Neumann describes the combats he experienced and the morale of the crews, in additon to his experience during the final days of the AVG becoming a Technical Sergeant and later a Master Sergeant. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8ec9025e032842b01796ba2bacd7a415.mp4 0e4a511e2f0093d9647791497f2fad5a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0b774e3eb5018a6a2c0a5c59b38272bf.pdf 530912dafc4cc12aef1bcc0ed80c18c0 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Gerhard “Herman the German” Neumann Date of Interview: 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 8] FRANK BORING: Start it off by saying… (inaudible). HERMAN THE GERMAN: I believe it was about two weeks, maybe two to four weeks before July 4, '42 that P-40E's began to arrive in China. Whether this was in anticipation of the regular air force personnel was supposed to come in or whether it was just because a B was not powerful enough, had many disadvantages, I do not know. But in any case, we fed 'em in, they just suddenly were there, they were painted just like the B's and we maintained them in the same manner, which I described before, namely, whatever a pilot wrote in was fixed, whatever was not written in was not fixed. But I know that the pilots who ferried the E across the Hump from Burma into Kunming, spoke highly of the E, what a difference 100 horse power made. I could never imagine that although I was an engineer, that 100 horse power would make a huge difference for an airplane which weighs about the same as each other, but had 100 horse power more, which is 10 % more power available. Higher altitude, faster speed, safer crossing the Hump in bad weather and so we obviously liked the E. The visual signs [?] whether the machine guns were six machine guns, three of each in each wing of the E, 50 caliber, or whether there were only four 50 calibers and two 30 calibers firing through the propeller hub. That was a big sign from our point of view. Otherwise I could not tell any difference of it. The engines were Allison engines, �fundamentally the same, they just made a little higher pressure ratio, which is not visible from the outside why this happened. But I believe I mentioned the exhaust stacks which were flat in stacks to depress the collar of the exhaust flame in order to make it more difficult for following an aircraft down, and use it as a target. FRANK BORING: You had mentioned earlier how you were able to raise the airplanes up so you could work on …… HERMAN THE GERMAN: …… the lining? FRANK BORING: There was an incident in which the Japanese could ………… HERMAN THE GERMAN: Yes, I happened to be there. We couldn't quite trust our eyes, nor trust our ears when we …… FRANK BORING: It's very important where it was, if you can give us the context of where it was and the airfield and everything else. HERMAN THE GERMAN: It was in Kweilin, where maybe a week prior to the dissolution of the AVG, Japanese fighters came over there and dropped a whole slew of leaflets, saying, "We, the Imperial fliers of the Japanese Air Force, challenge you, the fliers of the American Volunteer Group to a sportsmanlike duel at such and such, I think it was 3 o'clock in the afternoon on July the 1st or 2nd or maybe June 30th", I can't recall exactly when. But most Americans who read this paper, of course, did not believe it. They said, "This is a trick of the Japanese." And word came that General Chennault had read this paper and said, "You'd better be ready because they will be there at 3 o'clock sharp, and by George, the Japanese were. Our planes were up waiting. He had reinforced this one squadron in Kweilin with additional planes from another location, I think it was either Liuchow or Ling Ling or Hengyang, from somewhere we had twice as many planes, and so we had never been before that many planes together, and he had them all in groups, getting up there in case they do come earlier that he had planes in the air. Of �course, they used up fuel which was very valuable. Then the next layer, the next half a dozen, the next half a dozen went up, and by George, I believe sixteen Japanese fighter planes of the I-97 type came over and we had about 24 planes in the air. There was a wild turkey shoot wherever you looked, right or left, high or low, one plane following the other one. It was a real going wild thing around down there, and when we all wound up, we had lost I believe something like four planes altogether, and the Japanese lost 16 or 18 planes. It was a good ratio, but not quite up to our normal standard, but there were so many Japs that they were just hanging on to each American plane down there. It was a great, great turkey shoot. FRANK BORING: I wonder if you will – about trying to convince the AVG to stay on. HERMAN THE GERMAN: General Bissell had come over and spoken, I believe in three locations where AVG's were, trying to persuade them to stay over there and enlist into the military offering them some pretty good rank promotion compared to what they were in the United States before they left. I did not attend any of the meetings because it never occurred to me that I would be one of them who had a choice in this matter, and I thought come July 4, I will be out and I'll be either going back to my garage, or do something else. So I did not attend the meeting, but the boys who did attend the meeting came back furious, and said I had considered staying over here for a while, but with that man in charge I shall not stay over here. This was the unanimous thing I heard about General Bissell, and I don't know whether I – did I mention to you the General Bissell thing? Yeah, you had that in here. But this confirmed what I heard about Bissell all along the line. I know General Chennault did not get along with him because Bissell short-stopped various supplies which were destined for China from the United States, and they did not arrive, they did not come through, and the reason was, we were told that General Bissell he needed it down for the counter �offensive which would ultimately come down from Burma and push the Japanese into the sea. FRANK BORING: Tell us if he was…. (inaudible)? HERMAN THE GERMAN: Yeah, we had one day in which – on July the 4th or 5th I believe it was, Fox movie was there with a team to take pictures of those AVG's who stayed behind, who voluntarily stayed longer in China, and the P-40 was put in this background to that thing, and I did not want to participate in the little military show they had planned because I told them I had no basic training in American military and I didn't know what to do, and they told me that the German and the American system was identical. It was some German General who came over here in the late 1800 and something – 1870 and trained the American in the German system, they were both identical, and so I said okay, you guys, if that's what you want. Now on the right and left of me, I had a friend of mine who translated what it was the commands were, because commands,. unless you are a real soldier, you don't understand what it means "Er right, er right", and they all know what it means and I didn't understand what he said, so they translated to me, in the time between the initial command. Each command has two parts, one an alert and the second, the execution, when to do it, like, "Aaaabout" and then they know already what comes and they tell me, "Turn around, face." At "face", you swing around, and everything worked fine. Our ranks spread, our ranks went further apart, forward and aft, and I was standing in the middle of the grouping pretty well alone, and when the command came, "About face", I read about it but "turn round", but the German system is on the left heel to the left side and the American system on the right heel, turn around the other side and I noticed that when I was nearly all around, I started swinging back again the other way, and Fox had to cut out that segment down there. And I have never since that time participated in any military training. FRANK BORING: When did you first hear them being called the Flying Tigers? �HERMAN THE GERMAN: We did not have the V for Victory and a tiger with wings which was said right away was from Walt Disney, that Walt Disney created it. They showed up about in March, I believe sometime in March and I cannot tell you whether they were papers which you – what do you call the papers which you [?] all right, the German pictures, "Ap Sie Bild" which means you pull the cover off the [?] underneath, because they were all so identical. I don't think they were really painted by anyone in China, they just filled in more and more and more of them, and pretty soon they all had the Flying Tiger insignia on them. But then a few weeks when the first E's came, before the E's, they had already another insignia on there which was – the China Air Task Force, had a different insignia on and then later the 14th Air Force again changed the insignia. FRANK BORING: Where did you first hear though – decal is the word you're looking for – the AVG being called the Flying Tigers or anything you may remember? HERMAN THE GERMAN: It just fed in very slowly. We were sent in some copies of American newspapers, it was reported an aerial victory which we had frequently, of so many planes shot down against the loss of only so many. Incidentally, when you talk about the loss ratio, you have to remember that the Japanese fought over enemy territory, we did not fight over enemy territory, maybe occupied territory, but not over actual enemy territory, and I do not know – this may be of very great interest to the listener, of a single case in which any American who bailed out, had to bail out in enemy territory, was ever turned over to the Japanese, although the Japanese some time, maybe during the AVG days, maybe a little later, offered a $10,000, U.S. dollar reward for any American turned in, dead or alive, and I understand nobody was ever turned in by the Chinese. They stuck completely with the Americans. �FRANK BORING: Could you tell us, speaking as (inaudible) reference to TV about the fact that American fliers that were shot down, there was never an incidence ……… HERMAN THE GERMAN: Never was known to me and I was pretty well familiar later. FRANK BORING: Okay, and then also make sure about the $10,000 reward and about the Chinese people. HERMAN THE GERMAN: There were, of course, several of our planes which were [?] very badly that the pilot felt he could not return safely on to landing field in free China and they had to bail out and pull the ripcord. They went down. I do not know of a single case where the pilot where the pilot was so seriously hurt in the bale out process that he could not make it home, or that he died. The Japanese had offered a $10,000, U.S. dollar reward in 1942 which was a heck of a lot of money in those, it's still a lot of money in these days, but a hell of a lot of money in those days, for the turning over of an American pilot, dead or alive, to the Japanese. Whether they would have paid I do not know, but in any case, I was quite well familiar with what was going on and would have probably heard about any instance, and I am not aware of any single instance, in which a Chinese who were fully aware of that reward, turned over any American to the Japanese. FRANK BORING: Two weeks in which American military personnel were now coming in on a regular basis and the transition period was occurring where people you had – please give us your candid review ……… HERMAN THE GERMAN: I will give you a candid review – I will give you my candid opinion, which will be very disappointing because I did not know any difference except that my friends left, there were fewer and fewer, nobody said goodbye, there were no big official farewell deals, and the feeding in of the Americans was done very smoothly, which was suddenly, regular air force personnel with �officer rank and enlisted men rank, and I remember the first day a planeload full of G.I.'s came in while we AVG's were still there, and they knew nothing, they were frightened stiff, therefore they were worried because this was new world territory, we were the old timers, and same as the officers who I began to know very well, the engineering officers who really didn't know anything about airplanes. Then they asked me, what do you here, what should I do there, so it was a very smooth transition and I heard no big farewell, except that pilot Petach got killed, and we felt terribly sorry that he had just got married before and ended two weeks extension to get killed, was just really tough luck. It's tough luck all the time when you get killed, but to get killed on a voluntary extension of two weeks, was just unfortunate. FRANK BORING: (Inaudible) HERMAN THE GERMAN: Being on a crew chief level was not as familiar, of course, with the pilot's home life, their personal life, but we all knew Nurse Petach, we have seen her before, or the name prior to her name whatever it was, and that she married pilot Petach. Petach was one of those few pilots who voluntarily stayed two weeks longer to help the U.S. Air Force integrate smoothly, transition the whole matter, he really did a very loyal thing for this country, and when we heard that he got shot down during these last two weeks, two days, after having just been married, and after I believe the story came around that Mrs. Petach expected a baby, we felt terribly sorry about it. FRANK BORING: The transition was smooth but in fact, there were some difficulties in the sense that there were some personnel coming in that really didn't know how to work on the airplanes that you were working on, that actual problems that were occurring in the transition period. HERMAN THE GERMAN: I can only now tell you that in the transition period, I met the engineering officer, he was a Second Lieutenant of the U.S. army air corps and he indeed did not know what to do nor did I expect �him to know what to do. He arrived from the United States in a war area, and here we old timers who had gone through the war for six months and knew already what to do, and so he very properly asked me and I helped him and we worked very closely together. I flew with him in a twin-engined plane to various other locations to pick up some spare parts and what parts to pick and where to pick them up from, and I did not see any difficulty. That does not mean that there were no difficulties, I personally have not seen but a smooth transition from the AVG into the air force. FRANK BORING: At this point, if you would, I would like, where do you think the AVG fits in terms of history, in terms of the Chinese point of view, the American point of view, that small one year period of which you were all – where does the AVG fit, in terms of that. HERMAN THE GERMAN: The AVG, as such, is not really known, was not really known by the time the AVG left as AVG. The word Flying Tigers took over so completely and was so popular by the Chinese population, by the American press, and by the Life Magazine which wrote an article about the Flying Tigers, which we got in China there, that the 14th Air Force which followed later, or the China Air Task Forces followed at first, then the 14th Air Force, tried very hard to absorb the name Flying Tigers, and indeed many men who were interviewed by the American press, said that he was with the Flying Tigers and this is what the newspaper wrote, one of the Flying Tigers while actually he was not one of the original Flying Tigers. I believe there was a major disagreement in the States later about Flying Tigers and the follow on military. As a matter of fact the U.S. government did not want to give credit in terms of overseas time to those members of the original Flying Tigers, and it was not considered an American outfit, it was the Flying Tigers of the Chinese Air Force. But that, of course, is a bunch of nonsense, but that's the way it really went. I, myself, personally, wanted to ultimately get American citizenship, but they said you were with the Flying Tigers of the Chinese Air Force, you were not �with the American Air Force, so that was the official part. But when it suited them, the other way around, they were… � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Neumann_Gerhard_1991_v08 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann interview (video and transcript, 8 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Gerhard Neumann by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Neumann, known by his American Volunteer Group (AVG) comrades as "Herman the German," was a mechanic and the son of non-practicing Jewish parents. Though drafted into the German army in 1938, he attained a deferrment as a working engineer. He left Germany to seek a job opportunity in Hong Kong in 1939, but upon arrival learned the company had disappeared. Circumstance led him to working for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) where he worked as an auto mechanic. After the Pearl Harbor attack, he accepted an offer from Col. Chennault and joined the AVG. He served among the headquarters personnel as a Propeller Specialist. In this tape, Neumann discusses the meeting with General Bissell regarding an extended stay of the AVG and the identity of the Flying Tigers. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ef02d4602893f6598fd6dd7ca31d1566.mp4 3d7ea152b5ae62c99ac9532b5ea867f5 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/087aa5f6a9659d98d0022dc160438bbe.pdf a898450179ff952a67f8a9b0b9a49bf7 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Gerhard “Herman the German” Neumann Date of Interview: 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 9] HERMAN THE GERMAN: The existence and departure of the Flying Tigers – of the original Flying Tigers was a very sad case indeed, but the record they left behind and the record that was published, particularly the entire program we had, where we were experiencing loss after loss after loss of the allies to the Japanese, the Indonesians and whatever, and there the AVG stood as a shining example, that the Japanese were not unbeatable, but slowly people began to believe – we had lost Hong Kong to the allies, we had lost Singapore, which was unbeatable, and the Japanese all managed to take – Indo-China and Dutch New Guinea for example all the way down to Australia. The Flying Tigers were held up as the ones who beat the Japanese at the record level. I do not know what the official level really is but it was in the neighborhood of 12:1 or 13:1 or something. I even heard the figure of 14:1. I do not know what this ratio was, whether it's ratio of pilots killed or pilots lost or it was airplanes lost or whatever, but it was a tremendous ratio and it showed that a small group of volunteers, well led, which was the important thing, well supported by the population on the ground, in feeding them and housing them and everything else, building runways so that they could make it and beat the Japanese, and that was an inspiration used by the American people, used by the American press, used by the Chinese. I couldn't read a Chinese newspaper but I heard it all over that the Flying Tigers were indeed, practically exceptional god-like affair. That of course was not true. �It was a really tough outfit, and although voluntary, some people had left, the tough guys stayed behind and did their job and inspired the American people. No question about it. FRANK BORING: With the help of the Chinese – they were able to do something different in terms of what was going on with the Japanese, the bombing of the Chinese cities. If you could talk to us about that, in particular the affect AVG had in defending the Chinese. HERMAN THE GERMAN: I had moved from Hong Kong in June of 1940 into the Yunnan area. There was Yunnanyi which is slightly west, maybe 40 miles west of Kunming. There was a big flying, central flight training base. I had never seen a single Chinese fighter aircraft by itself in combat with the Japanese. The Japanese came daily and the Chinese had plenty of opportunity, but I have to say that they did not attack the Japanese, except through one anti-craft gun 88 German anti-aircraft gun near Kunming. It was not the Chinese Air Force that did anything. The Chinese training planes were seen departing prior to the arrival of the Japanese. Now I did see Russian equipment in China. I never saw them in combat because they had old Spanish Civil War type equipment in China, like biplanes and light bombers. But I didn't see them in action either except I suddenly heard that they had left and returned to Russia when Germany attacked Russia and the planes were called back and the crews and supporting personnel were called back. So I can only say that were it not for the Flying Tigers having arrived and being trained in Burma prior to World War II and then being available right there in World War II and the Japanese coming over there with their first squadron, unprotected by fighters and losing nearly all their bombers and two days later, the same thing happened. Think, the Flying Tigers were right there and established themselves in the minds of all the Chinese, certainly of the free Chinese. I do not know what was known all over, what news went over to the occupied Chinese, but the free Chinese certainly gave credit to the Flying Tigers being over there, and Colonel Chennault. �FRANK BORING: I'd like to ask you now what you feel was your personal accomplishment in that period of time and how did it affect the rest of your life. HERMAN THE GERMAN: Those are two separate questions of what affect my membership of the AVG was in my life's career and what I thought I may have contributed. I contributed to the AVG the, I believe a little better maintenance and availability of fighter aircraft and I'm quite sure I contributed in several cases to an airplane available in a flight line having gone up and maybe shot down some Japanese aircraft, but that's all as far as I could do, except for training Chinese. I did train a lot of Chinese who sent to me who sent to me another 20 men and another 20 men, on the maintenance of engines and the aircraft. So that may have a far-reaching effect later on when these Chinese stayed with the American military. But in my own life it was a period of getting to be an American, of being associated with America and to be particularly associated with the men who looked you straight in the eye, Colonel Chennault, later General Chennault, who affected me through the whole life, because when I came to America after the war, and told people that I happened to be with the original Flying Tigers, "Oh", they'd say, "You were with General Chennault" and I'd say, "Yes, I was with General Chennault," and I had my passport and my military pass for Flying Tigers to show it, and this practically assured me a job in the aeronautical business at a time when tens of thousands were being laid off after the war. I got a job offer immediately at Douglas Aircraft where I was and at General Aircraft where I was then later. Having worked with General Chennault, with the original Flying Tigers on my passport an entry, take it anywhere, which I didn't recognize at the time, completely as later, but it was certainly an important, the most important thing in my life. FRANK BORING: That is – in terms of your association with Chennault, affect you, in terms of the things that you decided to do the rest of your life. �HERMAN THE GERMAN: I'm trying to tell you how I personally felt of having been associated with the Flying Tigers. The personal acquaintance-ship with General Chennault was, could have been independent of the Flying Tigers because he happened to be my one removed next door neighbor, and we were getting along very well, although we did not talk very much, and I didn't talk very much. I couldn't and he didn't. But certain of the pilots of the Flying Tigers were very impressive. This Tex Hill, Ed Rector, as my Squadron Commander, there were some of those people who were really, truly effective in my life in believing in people. On the other hand, a lot of drunken crew chiefs and non-working all the time the way I was taught to do as I was expected to do. They kind of disappointed me for some time, but not all of them at all. There were some wonderful guys down as crew chiefs also, and propeller repair men and so on. But there were some, there was a difference between the pilots and the pilot's operating and the pilot's behavior and the crew chief personnel. Now maybe the pilots were drinking at nights too in a great mass, and I assume they did, but I was not aware of that. What I was aware of was that Tex Hill and Ed Rector, and some squadron commanders or squadron members, flying members of the AVG and they are wonderful people, and they gave me a lot of confidence that American military will do the job to beat finally the Germans and whatever else they had to beat down there. FRANK BORING: How did that affect you as the man, how did that experience during that period of time – where there any characteristics that came out of there that have carried on either in terms of your competence, in terms of your feeling more comfortable with Americans, or ………… HERMAN THE GERMAN: I thought out there that the mass of Americans, of course there could be a lot of other people, that the most of the crew chief level and ground support personnel of the Flying Tigers, were not working as hard as what they should be working, very frankly, and I decided right then and there, that wouldn't happen to me, if I go, �I'll go all out or quit, and this affected me, I'm sure. But on the other hand, the pilots I have always seen ready, I do not know when they were not ready, but I know they were ready lying on their deck chairs next to the airplanes, all day long, waiting for the command to go up in the air and there was never any hesitation of any of those. They were the high type guys I liked to emulate. FRANK BORING: I've got one question that actually has nothing to do with AVG (inaudible)… HERMAN THE GERMAN: There's not much to say. Looking back at those six months, I was so busy with myself and my job of maintaining those aircraft around the clock and doing the very best I could, that I had little time to think about what would happen six months later or a year later or twenty years later or forty years later. It is now that I was there about 50 years ago, and it always stuck with me that the Flying Tigers and General Chennault. I often think what would Chennault say about what I am going to do now. Will he be approving of it and I know he did, because his death bed so to say, less than a month before he died, I visited him in a Royal Marine Hospital, and I saw him and the General said, "I read about you that you are now General Manager of the jet engine department of General Electric and I'm very pleased and very proud of you. I want to congratulate you and I said, "General, it was your influence which made me have the confidence to get going, and you got me to America and you helped me all along the line, and I thank you very, very much and I wish you wouldn't smoke", because he was sitting in this bed and smoking, and he said, "I'm going to die anyhow in a few days, I might as well enjoy it to the last." But General Chennault was the big figure in my life. I met many big figures, many heads, I met five presidents of the United States personally, but he was still one of my idols, top idols. I'm sorry, I wish I could tell you more. FRANK BORING: That was excellent. (Inaudible) �HERMAN THE GERMAN: Looking back at General Chennault leaving China on July 20, 1942, no excuse me … FRANK BORING: The date's not even that important, just say leaving China, that would be good. HERMAN THE GERMAN: I was going to say less than three weeks before the war was over. Looking back at when General Chennault who I can truly define as a personal friend of mine, and a major influence, left the area where he fought for eight years, less than a month before the war ended and having heard rumors that he may have been asked to leave an to retire, was a shock. But the worst shock was that when Japan surrendered in a big ceremony when General MacArthur was there, when the prisoners, the big top prison officers, American officers had been released by the Japanese and joined on the battleship Azores for peace treaty signing, and General Chennault was not there. I was really shook up and somewhere I can assure you my whole squadron, and I'm not the only squadron, there was squadron after squadron, we all felt Chennault was our old man, and the new group of people coming in may have been very nice but to see to it that General Chennault is one of the top men signing the peace treaty with the Japanese being there in charge with this [?] was a real shock and a very, very great disappointment. FRANK BORING: (Inaudible) HERMAN THE GERMAN: When I met General Chennault in his office as a future commander of an American volunteer group, he had this simple desk. There was nothing fancy about his office. It was all work, we talked about work, we talked about responsibility and the importance in life, and I taught the General, at that time when he was not a General, that I was brought up this way, in a German home, it is first, the work, then the pleasure, if there is time for pleasure. But we got pleasure out of work, and when I became an apprentice for three years prior to going to engineering college, I had the same �thing, it was work first, and you work your fanny off under miserable conditions. You finish your work and the aircraft runs or the automobile runs, and everything's all right you get pleasure and satisfaction out of working on it. I saw this with the pilots. What I saw of the pilots, or most of them, except Pappy Boyington or some of those exceptions, very few exceptions, I saw them always ready, always ready to fly, whenever they were told, "You, you, you – take off now", they're gone, they're working. I'm sure they got their satisfaction of shooting down airplanes and painting another Japanese flag on the side of the airplane that shot down another plane. I did not see the same thing unanimously with the enlisted personnel, from the enlisted personnel, but some of them also were very conscientious and very good but there were some of them who just would not make it in good old Germany down there, they would fall by the wayside because it was not work first and then the pleasure, and that's what Chennault saw in me and I saw in the General, and that's why we got along very well with each other. When I look back at the six months with the Flying Tigers and the problems of repairing under terrible conditions without a hangar, without a light, without real tools, without any spare parts, and when I see what was done and the net result was that the whole Chinese free nation admired what was done under those tough conditions, then I don't mind at all having worked that hard and I've continued to this throughout my life, all the way and to the last day, and the last day I closed the door and that was it. I think a lot of people would be better off when they think, first the work and then the pleasure, and I still stick with it, and have some problems sometimes at home. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Neumann_Gerhard_1991_v09 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991 Title A name given to the resource Gerhard "Herman the German" Neumann interview (video and transcript, 9 of 9), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Gerhard Neumann by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying TIgers. Neumann, known by his American Volunteer Group (AVG) comrades as "Herman the German," was a mechanic and the son of non-practicing Jewish parents. Though drafted into the German army in 1938, he attained a deferrment as a working engineer. He left Germany to seek a job opportunity in Hong Kong in 1939, but upon arrival learned the company had disappeared. Circumstance led him to working for the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) where he worked as an auto mechanic. After the Pearl Harbor attack, he accepted an offer from Col. Chennault and joined the AVG. He served among the headquarters personnel as a Propeller Specialist. In this tape, Neumann discusses the effect the AVG had in defending the Chinese people and his personal accomplishments during that period in his life. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4d41627e821be60c5444746ceb79d7c0.pdf f9e9cecdd72adb0db1356fe5ccafa92c PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Incunabula Description An account of the resource The term incunabula refers to books printed between 1450 and 1500, approximately the first fifty years following the invention, by Johann Gutenberg of Mainz, of printing from moveable type. Our collection includes over 200 volumes and numerous unbound leaves from books printed during this period. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1450/1500 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Incunabula Collection (DC-03) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United </a> Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource text Language A language of the resource eng it la nl de Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Opera [folium 159] Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03_159Gerson1494 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerson, Jean, 1363-1429 Description An account of the resource One leaf from Opera by Johannes Gerson. Printed in Strassburg by Martin Flach (Printer of Strassburg) in 1494. Illustrated with red and blue rubricated initals. [GW 10717; ISTC ig00189000] Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Strassburg: Martin Flach Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Language A language of the resource la Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1494 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Text https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f4035d7aab7f64311ac8baafdfb67f04.pdf 15758216da6782970e3e8247d732c72d PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Incunabula Description An account of the resource The term incunabula refers to books printed between 1450 and 1500, approximately the first fifty years following the invention, by Johann Gutenberg of Mainz, of printing from moveable type. Our collection includes over 200 volumes and numerous unbound leaves from books printed during this period. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1450/1500 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Incunabula Collection (DC-03) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United </a> Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource text Language A language of the resource eng it la nl de Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Opera [folium 175] Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03_175Gerson1483 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerson, Jean, 1363-1429 Description An account of the resource One leaf from Opera by Johannes Gerson. Printed in Cologne by Johann Koelhoff, the Elder, in 1483-1484. [GW 10713; ISTC ig00185000] Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Cologne: Johann Koelhoff, the Elder Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Language A language of the resource la Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1483/1484 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Text https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1ebb4f62ec3ab5e37b8b80298bdf7785.pdf a4ec2a8d9b54f1ec63b97b161f27b181 PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Incunabula Description An account of the resource The term incunabula refers to books printed between 1450 and 1500, approximately the first fifty years following the invention, by Johann Gutenberg of Mainz, of printing from moveable type. Our collection includes over 200 volumes and numerous unbound leaves from books printed during this period. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1450/1500 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Incunabula Collection (DC-03) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United </a> Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource text Language A language of the resource eng it la nl de Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Opera [folium 32] Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03_032Gerson1488 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerson, Johannes, 1363-1429 Description An account of the resource One leaf of Opera by Johannes Gerson and edited by Johannes Geiler von Kaisersberg. Printed in Strassburg by Johann (Reinhard) Grüninger in 1488. [GW 10714; ISTC ig00186000] Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Strassburg: Johann (Reinhard) Grüninger Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Gerson, Johannes, 1363-1429 Language A language of the resource la Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1488 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Geiler von Kaisersberg, Johannes (editor) Type The nature or genre of the resource Text https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6864b41c5f4b508eb3758b6bfe4e8303.pdf 5dc618cc98a642c99f16954c224c8a0d PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Incunabula Description An account of the resource The term incunabula refers to books printed between 1450 and 1500, approximately the first fifty years following the invention, by Johann Gutenberg of Mainz, of printing from moveable type. Our collection includes over 200 volumes and numerous unbound leaves from books printed during this period. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1450/1500 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Incunabula Collection (DC-03) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United </a> Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource text Language A language of the resource eng it la nl de Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Parvulus philosophiae naturalis in Physicam Aristotelis introductorius [folium 108] Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-03_108Gerticz1499 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerticz, Petrus Description An account of the resource One leaf from Parvulus philosophiae naturalis in Physicam Aristotelis introductorius by Petrus Gerticz. Printed in Leipzig by Wolfgang Stöckel on February 23, 1499. [GW 3465; ISTC ig00277750] Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Leipzig: Wolfgang Stöckel Subject The topic of the resource Incunabula Printing 1450-1500 Language A language of the resource la Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1499 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Text https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e0657f64bf9b1fc609ee77cdbb37f37e.m4v 6ebf80ab5e1b5cc5cd361be94797b165 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fce123302ef0c60c013ec289b7e336ff.pdf 85f72a4ca4fb8e8a535de71bdf2ea4a5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Gaetan Gerville-Reache U.S. Navy Length of interview: (37:25) (00:00) Early Life and Navy      (00:04)Born on October 8, 1976 Served in the Navy from 1998-2002 After nine months of training in Newport, Rhode Island, he became the main propulsion officer on the USS Benfold. He arrived on the ship in April 1999, just before the ship was deployed to the Arabian [Persian] Gulf (2:50) He went into the Navy on a scholarship program, he was committed for a minimum of four years (3:30) Deployment          (3:30) on the way to the Persian Gulf, they went to South Korea and Singapore. They arrived to the gulf in the middle of the summer. (4:40) he participated in operation southern watch, enforcing a no fly zone in southern Iraq. They were also enforcing an embargo on Iraq. Men on his ship boarded vessels that were trying to sneak supplies into Iraq. (7:00) they worked in tandem with an aircraft carrier. His ship had a powerful radar that would relay information to the aircraft carrier in the event of an unauthorized aircraft (8:00) He was able to visit Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, and Kuwait. He found that none of these places were much fun; people often kept to themselves (9:30) He kept in contact with his family by email and the occasional phone call. He missed his girlfriend and was always stressed from the work that he had to do (11:20) he had to stand watch on the ship from 2am to 7am. After that they had to complete their work day, eat dinner, and repeat the process. Gaetan lost over 25 pounds while he was deployed (12:30) When the captain was asleep, he would be responsible for the ship. (13:30) Gaetan took part in a stand-off with Iranians who would point missiles at his ship. However, this was common, Iran was always trying to assert their authority over the surrounding waters (14:30) When he was in South Korea, someone falsely reported that a vessel that had capsized. All they found when they went to look was a dead whale �       (16:00) Other than some tomahawk missiles that his ship launched, he cannot recall that there were any hostilities; however, they were always on alert (19:30) Gaetan remembers that there were around seven ships in his fleet. (22:30) If Gaetan could experience his deployment again, he would. He also states that he would rejoin the Navy if the United States ever went to war and needed experienced men. He was forced to grow up a lot and he is glad that he did. It is important to have effective and experienced officers, especially when you are new to the military. (26:44) Gaetan advises people than the military is not for everyone. It is also important to keep in mind all that the military does. (28:20) It is an honor to be a part of a group of men and women serving their country (29:30) 9/11       He was in San Diego on 9/11 getting ready to deploy that day. (30:00) His wife called him over to the television where he watched the attack (30:30) It wasn’t until he reached his ship that he realized that the United States was at war. When his ship left port that day, it was fully loaded. The one week training deployment turned into a three week endeavor. (32:00) they were monitoring Mexico and the Coast of California. Every ship that was able to float was sent out to sea. (33:10) The skies were completely quiet; Gaetan describes this as an eerie experience (36:00) though he was seeing messages coming through warning of possible attack locations, he could not relay any of the information to his wife. He could only tell her to stay off the freeways. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_GervilleReacheG1805V Title A name given to the resource Gerville-Re'ache, Gaetan (Interview outline and video), 2015 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-05-26 Description An account of the resource Gaetan Gerville-Reache was born on October 8, 1976 and served in the United States Navy from 1998-2002. He was deployed to the Persian Gulf as a part of Operation Southern Watch and served as the main propulsion officer on the USS Benfold. The objective of the operation was to enforce a no-fly zone and embargo on Iraq. He visited the ports of Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, and Kuwait. In addition to his experiences in the Persian Gulf, Gaetan recounts September 11, 2001 and how the navy responded to the attacks thereafter. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gerville-Re'ache, Gaetan Edward Alain Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Bursch, Michael (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/x-m4v application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/540dcf0b9249f90ebe5841d02af944a2.mp4 8cc71c759d1226aa3ac77fa4b259644a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f5f1eef9df230517ab495716c31c49b0.pdf baf86f6d524c03e0c435e4594bcf4cee PDF Text Text Byron Gibbs (1:18:33) (00:15) Background Information • • • • • • Byron was born in Clare, Michigan on December 7, 1916 His father was a banker and his mother stayed at home His father lost his job during the depression and had to sell magazines During high school Byron mowed lawns for 15 cents apiece and worked part time in a grocery store He graduated from high school in 1934 and began going to Michigan Tech, where he had received a scholarship Byron graduated from college in 1938 and after that it was hard for him to find a job (6:45) Drafted 1941 • Byron had been living in East Detroit and was well aware of the impending war; the Detroit airport often had bomber planes leaving for Europe with British insignia on them • Byron was sent to Camp Grant Illinois for testing and then to Camp Livingston in Louisiana • He began training with Company C of the 126th Infantry Unit (13:15) Training • During training Byron learned how to take care of weapons, worked on KP, drilled and marched a lot • He had been training when Pearl Harbor was attacked and they realized that the US would be getting more involved in the war • Things began to change on base and they were worried about sabotage, so Byron spent some time guarding bridges (18:25) Overseas 1942 • Byron was sent to Massachusetts and assumed that he would be going to Europe, but then was sent on a train to San Francisco • They were sent on a luxury linger through the Pacific and the weather was nice • There was good food on the ship, but not enough bunks and Byron had to sleep on deck • The trip lasted 10 days to reach Australia (26:40) Australia • Byron landed in Adelaide and continued training • They stayed in a hotel and then later took train to Brisbane • They had to switch trains every time they reached a different part of Australia because they all used different size rails �• Byron had more training in Brisbane and marched throughout the country side (36:30) Buna • The area was very hilly and covered with very tall grass • The first day there they were bringing in supplies to the Australian soldiers • They eventually took over the positions of the Australians and began attacking the Japanese • The Japanese never fought at night; they changed their positions at night and always held their positions during the day, never moving forward • Byron had a rifle from WWI that only held 5 shots • He had been working with company C, but was later transferred to a signal corps (43:00) Leaving New Guinea • Byron had applied for a position in the signal corps and received it because he had a degree in electrical engineering • It was good news because he got to go back to the US; the weather in New Guinea had been horrible and it continuously rained • He was told he told he would have to walk back to the airstrip, which was about 100 miles away, but he got a ride in a jeep • He then took a train to Port Moresby where he actually got to sit down to a meal • Byron flew back to Australia and then went back to the US (49:50) Signal Corps Training • Byron was working near Harvard and intercepting code to look for enemy communications • He had more classes at MIT, engineering refresher courses with other men that had engineering degrees • Byron was later sent to Florida for radar training with planes flying over the golf • He worked on anti-sub radar patrol in Palm Beach (54:40) Manila • There were many dead Japanese scattered on the ground and still some stragglers left over throughout the woods • The area showed signs of destruction and all the lights had been blown out so it was completely dark at night • Byron was an officer in charge at the signal center and they worked with quite a few civilians, who got along well with the Americans • Byron worked on cryptography with the signal corps and they worked together with some Australians �• • They Americans and Australians did not like to share their information and kept to themselves Much of the Australian equipment was old and outdated (1:02:05) General MacArthur • MacArthur had come to the Philippines to visit his office • The city streets were filled with men and civilians waiting to just get a glimpse of him as he passed by in his Jeep • The civilians saw him as a liberator and the American men thought very highly of him • Byron had known he was coming and was up to speed on daily news while working at the signal center (1:08:40) The End of the War • Byron was still working a lot in the signal center even after the Japanese had surrendered • He had been just short a few points of being sent home • Byron was eventually discharged and sent back to the West coast for processing • He went back to Michigan and quickly found a job working for a chemical company • Byron got married after being discharged and continued with the same company for 34 years • He also worked in the active reserve and attended meetings in Lansing, Michigan once a week � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gibbs, Byron (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gibbs, Byron Description An account of the resource Byron Gibbs was born in Clare, Michigan on December 7, 1916. He graduated from college in 1938 and was drafted into the Army in 1941. Byron trained in Louisiana with Company C of the 126th Infantry Regiment, 32nd (Red Arrow) Division, and was sent to Australia in 1942. They continued training in Australia, traveling to Adelaide and Brisbane and then were sent to New Guinea, where his unit fought at Buna. While that campaign continued, he was transferred back to the US for signal corps training, and eventually returned to the Pacific and served as a signalman at MacArthur's headquarters in the Philippines. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-10-19 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GibbsB Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7aaa1ec2b6e9a1595d5e57237cfaffb2.mp4 66a44f831f2e805ee316d227691d2823 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8b9a28bf38b14682dbaf1ed480f07aa6.pdf 4f143ab1b77f6946a069d443ae32e3f1 PDF Text Text GVSU Veteran’s History Project Korean War Lyle Gibbs Interview Total Time: 34:44            (00:03) Decided to join the army with a couple of uncles; signed up for three years o Assigned to 1st Cavalry Division in Japan o Spent 21 months in Japan o Occupation duty, guard duty, lots of training (1:12) Had just turned 19 when he went to Japan o Enjoyed it here; took many pictures and traveled during his time off o Stationed in Tokyo (2:03) Took pictures of General MacArthur but they had to be destroyed later (2:39) After being in Japan, he was sent to Korea when the war started there in 1950 (3:01) When they were shipped over to Korea, much of their division had little training and inexperienced leaders o Considered 40% combat ready when they transferred to Korea (3:53) Remembers landing in a town called Po Hang Dong o Saw a lot of village people o Sent into the hills later that night o Communicated with the Company Commander o Two dead lieutenants the next morning (5:00) The next day they went on a train to a battlefield south of Taejon, Korea o Didn’t hardly have time to set up o A sergeant came by and said he lost his whole platoon o Were then loaded on trucks and fired rifles on their way out (6:56) Pusan Perimeter – they finally had enough troops to make a solid line o Enemy couldn’t get through their lines from this moment on o For awhile they worried that they’d be run off into the ocean because they were so outnumbered (7:37) Inchon Invasion – Mr. Gibbs was in the 7th division o They went up the coastline and attacked, which significantly reduced the North Korean troops o Got orders to join the Marines (8:25) 1st Regiment in Pyongyang; captured this city (capital) (8:40) Got orders to capture Shenyang Po, which was a port city o Got a ride on the front bumper of a big truck; it was very cold at the time o No enemy troops in this location, kept moving �              (9:15) Ended up a half mile from Yalu River o Burning village o Could see Chinese troops coming from across the border (11:08) Their army commander ended up being killed in a jeep accident o The next commander had to get rid of other commanders who weren’t doing their jobs right o His first orders were to take charge and not to retreat; “Let the Chinese know who’s boss.” (12:03) Was relieved shortly after this o Later got orders to attack a big hill o Each company was assigned a ridge line; sent up in 15 minute increments o Mr. Gibbs’ company went up the valley, they saw Chinese troops approaching (13:30) Later he learned he’d be going back to the US (14:15) The next day they were attacked but ran off the enemy (14:35) Spent 11.5 months in Korea (14:43) Mr. Gibbs was in charge of a mortar section o In charge of this the first month he was in Korea o Later took over as platoon sergeant o Was later in charge of 42 men (15:23) Mr. Gibbs recalls many times where he was almost killed (15:36) He didn’t particularly like the army but he made the best of his time there (15:55) When he got back to the US, many people weren’t in favor of the Korean War o Was one of the last people to get sent home (16:40) When he returned to the US, he had another 10 months left in the army o Trained recruits o Korean veterans in the company o Commander was a reserve officer and didn’t like the combat veterans; gave them bad deals  Mr. Gibbs had an opportunity to tell the commander what he thought about how he ran the company  3 days later he was transferred to the Troop Movement Office – this was advantageous for Mr. Gibbs  Worked here until he got discharged; about 4 months before he got out of the army (18:33) 22 at the time he was discharged; went into the service at 18 (18:47) Says his army experience changed him o Had malaria when he got home, didn’t realize he had it while overseas (21:23) Ended up being good friends with the battalion commander �     (22:54) Made friends in the army but some of them were killed (23:40) Said it’s good to join the army if there isn’t war going on because of the traveling experience (26:10) Was put in for a silver star but the paperwork wasn’t filed right; Mr. Gibbs tore up the papers o Said there were many people who got medals but didn’t deserve them (28:50) Recalls a time where they captured some North Koreans during a firefight o This was when he got put in for a silver star o Believes the company commander deserved a Medal of Honor (34:27) Appreciates the time he spent in the service but wouldn’t want to do it again � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gibbs, Lyle (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gibbs, Lyle Description An account of the resource Lyle Gibbs enlisted in the Army in the late 1940s and was assigned to the 1st Cavalry Division in Japan. When the Korean War broke out, his unit joined the fighting early on, was driven back to the Pusan Perimeter, where they held. He then joined the 7th Division and served with it on the drive toward the Yalu and back. He saw a good deal of combat, and spent time leading a mortar section and later serving as a platoon sergeant. After ten months, he rotated home and completed the last few months of his enlistment in the US. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Colton (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-05-16 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GibbsL1059V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0006d26962439fa80657eac5a634a8e9.jpg 390ad29e4d586b3be581ffe7533de5d0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_D305-0027 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Barbara (McDonald) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1963-12-26 Title A name given to the resource Barbara McDonald's apartment Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of photographer Douglas Gilbert as taken by his girlfriend and later wife, Barbara McDonald. In the photograph, Douglas is seated in the kitchen of her apartment and smiling toward the camera and photographer. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942- Watertown (N.Y.) Apartments Kitchens Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c3061998f512b9591dd0790d2fcf578e.jpg cfea4dc928b72163ba142a9cef7e910c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_H024-0009a Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Barbara (McDonald) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1967-02-20 Title A name given to the resource Benjamin, the Gilberts' Cat, New York City Apartment Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of photographer Douglas Gilbert holding Benjamin the cat in the Gilberts' New York City apartment. In the photograph, Douglas is petting Benjamin in his lap while seated at a table and having breakfast. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942- Cats Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/673b8688171feb32493abb37fc716839.jpg 421fe6904c525a0bb898f5ad19b4da33 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_H054-0015a Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Barbara (McDonald) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1967-04-01 Title A name given to the resource Douglas Gilbert, New York City Apartment Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of photographer Douglas Gilbert smoking a pipe and holding a drink while seated in a butterfly chair inside the Gilberts' New York City apartment. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942- New York (N.Y.) Photographers Interior architecture Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/04136b4baac82e697ac295885f72a766.mp4 cde6ff13778c0203981650a3757af711 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/df58c494eac0810388b20af8ddc40721.pdf 24b9126187bf4fc3552532006dafd30d PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW CAROL GILBERT Conflict: Vietnam Era Born: 1950 in Nuremburg, Germany Resides: Odenton, Maryland Interviewed by: Janet Coryell, PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project Transcribed by: Claire Herhold, January 19, 2015 Interviewer: Carol, let’s start with a little background information. If you would, can you tell us where you were born? Sure, my father was in the military and I was born in Nuremburg, Germany on July 25, 1950. Interviewer: And did you spend a long time in Germany? We were there just for two years and then we came back to the states. Then my father got out of the military and went into the reserves and worked up in Methuen, Massachusetts. And when the Cuban Crisis came back, his unit was called back into active duty and he stayed active duty. Interviewer: Because you still lived there in Massachusetts? (1:00) We lived in Massachusetts, then we moved to Texas when I was thirteen, and then he got orders for Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland when I was fourteen. Interviewer: And you spent a lot of years there. And he retired out of Aberdeen Proving Ground so that’s actually … and Maryland is actually, I claim, my home. Interviewer: When did you meet your husband? I met him at a teen club at Aberdeen Proving Ground. He used to dance in a dance contest where they would pay the contestants fifty dollars and they would split it between the boy and girl; he got twenty five, she’d get twenty five. Interviewer: This is rock and roll? It was rock and roll. Splits, hand springs… �Interviewer: Oh my gosh! In fact, he could still do it to this day. When we go to weddings with a friend of ours that was a teenager with us, he’ll start doing the footwork and everything, and I’m going…uh! I hang my head. [laughs] I’m going, we’re getting too old for this! But that’s how I met him. We started going steady October 2nd, 1965. (2:03) Interviewer: You still remember! Yes. Interviewer: And so you were how old? Fifteen. Interviewer: Fifteen. And you’re still with him all these years later. Yeah. He was sixteen, I was fifteen. We’d been to three proms. Interviewer: So you were in the same high school together. No, we were in different high schools. He went to Perryville High, I went to Aberdeen High. Interviewer: Did you get married right out of high school? A year later. A year later we got married. It’s like, in our era, you got married or you went to college, in that era. And so we got married. April 12th was our wedding day and I said to my husband, I said, “We’ve got to go get our marriage license.” I did not need a signer because I was eighteen in the state of Maryland, but he needed a signer because the male had to be twenty one or older. Interviewer: Right. So we get them and I just looked and I said, “Why don’t you go see what number you are for the draft board.” (3:01) And he said, “Ok.” So he came back and he said, “I need to talk to you.” �And I said, “Oh.” And his mom was there. And we found out the draft notice was mailed out the week before that. Interviewer: So he hadn’t actually gotten it yet? He did not get it yet. Interviewer: He had a number like four or something. We had not… he still has his draft notice at home. The original one. So he was supposed to leave April 10th. Interviewer: So what did you do about the wedding? I kind of called my father who was still in the military, and I said, “Dad…” He was a command sergeant major…and I said, “You’ve got to do something. This is your money.” Interviewer: You had a big wedding planned. Well, I had seven attendants. It was a rainbow wedding that I always… everybody was in different colors. Interviewer: Oh, how pretty! And it was all of our high school friends and cousins and everything in it. We had to go to the draft board and sat in front of four people. It was myself, my mother and father, him, and his mother and father. (4:02) And we got a thirty day deferment. So the day of the wedding, we come out of the church after we had our Catholic mass, which lasted an hour, and we came out and his mother was out there with an envelope and it was his draft notice and the date was…he left May 19th. Interviewer: And what did you do when he left? Did you move back with your parents? Were you living by yourself? �I moved in with his father and mother for a while, and then I moved with my mom and dad when they lived at Aberdeen Proving Ground. Freddy went to Fort Bragg for Basic. Right out of Fort Bragg, we went to Fort McClellan, to AIT [Advanced Individual Training]. He came home October 2nd, left October 22nd, and during that time I got pregnant with our first one. Interviewer: But you didn’t know yet. Nope [laughs]. They weren’t that modern! Three months later it was like, Oh! You’re pregnant! Interviewer: And how did you let him know? By letters. I wrote every night, every day to him. (5:02) Interviewer: Wow. Does he still have the letters? He has the letters and I have letters from him. And I used to get piles of letters at one time, and I’m going, why am I getting like five letters today? And when he came back I said, “why?” And he said, “Because I would sit and date them different dates. Because I never knew when I was going to have the time to write, but our agreement was we would write at least every other day to each other.” [laughs] So I do have the letters and I sent pictures as I got pregnant, bigger and bigger. And he sent pictures of him with his six pack [laughs]. Interviewer: Now he wasn’t able to come home for the birth or anything like that. No, nope. My father kept on saying to me… the due date was July 10th…and my father kept on saying, “Give me ten dollars.” And I says, “I don’t have ten dollars! I’m living off of …” He never made over five hundred dollars a month until he made E-5. So when he was in ‘Nam, he was a private and then he made Spec-4 and that was like three hundred and fifty a month. (6:10) And I said, “I don’t have an extra ten dollars! You know, I’m pregnant. I have to start thinking about diapers and this and that. I don’t have an extra ten dollars.” He said, “Well, I need ten dollars because I want to send ten dollars and bet.” And my father never bet on anything. And �he says, “To the Lloyds of London. And say that you are going to have your baby on your birthday within two hours of your birth date.” He said, “For your ten dollars, you can win ten thousand dollars on a bet.” Interviewer: Okay… I says, “I’m not giving you ten dollars.” To this very day I say, “Dad, you should have done the ten dollars!” [laughs] Interviewer: So he was right? He was right. Interviewer: Oh my gosh! My son is twenty years and a minute and a half younger than me. Interviewer: Oh, that must have hurt. [laughs] And in the delivery room they sang “Happy Birthday.” (7:02) And then they got a wire to Freddy. And I got a rose. I have, to this very day, I don’t know where the rose came … everybody in the family said…it had to be the Red Cross, is the only thing I could think of. Interviewer: That’s nice. And he got the word that everything was fine. Everything went well. You have a son. And how he got his name, is the guys in his platoon put their names in a hat. Because I told him, I will name the girl, you name the boy. And that’s how he’s Daniel Warren. He’s named after one of the guys in his platoon, was Danny Ferrara, and another guy named Warren, and it happened to be my father’s name too. Interviewer: That’s wonderful. So that’s how my son got his name. �Interviewer: That’s really neat. And he was about three or four months old when your husband came home then? Freddy came home in September. (8:00) He was born in July, July 25th. Fred came home in September because his mother passed away. And we got word from the Red Cross and they didn’t let him come home. And then, of course, I went to my father again. I said, “This is the second request. Does he have to go back?” Because he was due to come back in October. And so he did his paperwork and since he was thirty days short they let him stay stateside. So he did not have to go back to ‘Nam. Interviewer: And did he continue in the service after that? He continued in the service. When he turned twenty one he decided…he worked for the VA hospital before he got drafted. So of course, at that time they kept your jobs open. But you don’t have to work in the same job, but they had to hire you back. And his supervisor said, “You don’t want to come back to the young vet hospital. Number one, you’re going to probably see guys that have gone through, and you’ll see the roughness.” So on his twenty first birthday, he decided to stay in the military. (9:03) So he spent his twenty years in the military. Interviewer: Were you working during the time that he was in the military, when you had small children? I stayed home. I worked some. I stayed at home most of the time because I wanted to raise the kids. Interviewer: When you worked, what did you do? I did bookkeeping. I went to school for hotel management. And then when I didn’t work, and we went back, I went into real estate for property management and title work. And I do that to this day. �Interviewer: And did your kids…you kind of grew up at a very interesting time in our culture where you’ve got the women’s movement and the anti-war movement and the civil rights movement…did any of those have an impact on your life or did they affect the way your children saw your job? Or did they affect the way you picked a job or worked? I tried to pick so I would be at home with the kids. And even when I worked, I made sure I got home within in an hour of their time, and that’s how I picked a job because I’m very familyorientated. (10:06) And we were young. You know, the first one was born when I was twenty. The second was when I was twenty three. And we were young parents and with Freddy staying in the military, he got into training, and he was gone a lot. And I’m going, you know, these kids need some structure. That’s the problem with this world now is that the kids don’t have any structure. So I wanted to stay at home so I started babysitting for friends and to this day we’re still friends. I started babysitting in 1977. Interviewer: And that was people who… now were you still living on base at this point? We were living at Fort Meade, Maryland at that time. Interviewer: So these are all army friends? Mmm hmm. It seems like when he decided to stay in the military, all of our…I don’t want to say “civilian friends” but that’s what they actually are…they looked at us as that we had leprosy. (11:00) They did not want to have anything to do with us. Interviewer: Now is that part of the anti-war movement? I believe that’s what it was. They said, “We worried about him when he was in Vietnam. I’m not worrying about him anymore.” Interviewer: Wow. That must have hurt. �It was leprosy. I felt that we … and even being stationed at Aberdeen Proving Ground, we were just fifteen miles from his high school and all the kids he went to school with. We had very little conversation with any of them. Interviewer: That must have been very difficult for you. It was very hard. Because being a teenager, a young wife, you know, I went to school with these girls. We were in their weddings. I was their maid of honor. We were their best mans [sic] and everything else and all of a sudden I have nothing to do with you. Interviewer: Did that last even after Vietnam? It’s still. We’ll talk. They still live in the same towns in Perryville and still have cliques. (12:01) I finally talked Freddy for his fortieth high school reunion, let’s go. Let’s go! And we went, and there was, you know, roughly about twenty five at his. And they still…we talk on Facebook. You know how you…it’s like a commercial. You go to church when you get married and when someone dies. [laughs] That’s how I feel! We see each other when someone passes away or when their kids get married we always get an invitation, but like… it’s just our military friends. To this very day. Interviewer: So the army sort of became your family. Yep. Interviewer: What about your birth families? Were they supportive of your decisions to go into the army and to get married and stay with an army man? I have to admit that my parents never … did they back us? Yes. My dad was a military person. But my parents always let us do our own decisions. My mother had a saying: “you’re not going to come back to me ten years from now and say it’s your fault you got divorced. You should have told me you didn’t like him.” (13:09) And that’s actually with our kids. I don’t pick their �girlfriends. I didn’t pick their boyfriends. We supported them. When they fell, we’re there to pick you up. But my parents never put any stress. They liked Freddy. Did they love Freddy? They didn’t like his actions. After Vietnam, they weren’t crazy about his actions because he would do weird stuff like they all did. And we fought some. And, you know, I’ll tell anybody, marriage is a …and I’ve told my kids this…marriage is a two-way street. When it becomes oneway, that’s when you’ve got to get out. And it’s communication and understanding. We’ve been married since ’69. Interviewer: That’s a long time. It’s been a long…and he made a remark the other day. He said, “you know, I’ve been married more than half of my life!” [laughs] (14:03) Interviewer: [laughs] A lot more! You don’t look at it that way. But we’re also friends. It’s the communication that you have to have. Interviewer: So it must have been very hard for you as a wife of someone who was a soldier in a very unpopular war. It was. It was. Interviewer: How did you cope? Coped by myself and with other military wives. We went to Germany in ’73 and he was squad sergeant there. And I, like, adopted the new wives because it’s like, the thing with the military wife, my saying…and I think it comes back from my background…is Freddy decided the military to be his life, to be his job. I had to support that. The military came first. His family came second. (15:00) I raised the kids. He was gone a lot, TDY [Temporary Duty]. So I raised the kids. Everybody says, “Oh, you’ve got so polite kids. Your grandchildren are so polite. �They shake your hand and say, ‘yes, sir,’ ‘no, sir.’” Freddy says to … “Man, I did such a good job.” No, honey. You helped make them, but guess what? [laughs] I raised them. I was there at the soccer games. I was there at the cheerleading game, the football games for the daughter. And I said…because he was TDY all the time. He left, he was in the Marshall training unit from Fort Meade, he left in April and he’s back in October. But he’d pop in on weekends when they were… Interviewer: So the summers when the kids were home all the time, he wasn’t anywhere near? Nope, and I just kept…I think that’s why I’m so involved with the grandchildren. I was always involved with the kids. Because I wanted them to know we were here. Interviewer: Did the kids resent the military and the degree to which they missed their dad? (16:00) If you talked to my son right now and he’s forty three years old, he will say yes. He says, “I never had a dad.” He says, “That’s why I’m different with my son. I go to every baseball game. Because I used to look up at the stands and it was always my mom.” Interviewer: What about your daughter? My daughter, she’s very close to Fred. And he didn’t see any cheerleading because he was gone. And I think they had a bond that no one…daughters and fathers have something. I don’t know what it is. But he had a bond. And my son, I think, resents a little of it. When he was a teenager…but I said, boys are different. Girls you kind of cuddle more and watch over. You can take care, you know…at that time, oh, the boys can take care of themselves. It’s the girls that the heart gets broken. (17:01) Which it’s not true! The boys get heartbroken too with first love or �whatever. I said, but my son met the guys…we have gatherings that we hold in Maryland like every two years, we’ll have a gathering. And the first one my son got to meet some of the guys. Interviewer: And these are all Ripcord people? And these are all Ripcord people and they bring their families. And the kids can hear. And my son went and stood up in front of everybody with tears in his eyes and said, “I want to thank all of yous for letting my father come home. I understand my father finally.” Interviewer: So it took that long? It took that year, that long, for him to understand his father. Interviewer: So if Freddy didn’t talk much about his experiences when he back? No. Very little. Interviewer: Did he talk to you? I mean, he didn’t talk to the kids. He talked to some, sometimes with me. I could tell by his…he has a lot of body language, so I could tell he’s get…he never watched any movies, nothing on TV. He will not watch any war stories. (18:05) With him staying in the military and training, he focused on his training. So his was training troops that knew nothing about Ripcord. They knew about Vietnam. “Oh you’re a Vietnam vet.” You know. But they didn’t know because Ripcord was never known. It was all hush-hush. So to say, he talked some, but not a lot and I think that’s why he has such strong body language because it’s coming out. And he didn’t really know how. Interviewer: Has it benefitted him having this connection with Ripcord now? Ripcord has saved us, saved him. The kids can tell you, he’s a different person. Interviewer: That’s wonderful. Why do you think that is? Because he met the guys and they talk and they all have gone through the same thing. And I’ve talked to several of the wives. There’s some that’s here the first time and one’s been married just �like us, dated through high school and everything. And she says, “He never talked. (19:08) He never talked to us but we knew something was wrong. But since they’ve been meeting and Ripcord…” We’re a family. It’s not our school reunion. You know, when you go and say I’m going to a school reunion. You’re going to see the guy you dated when you were in the tenth grade and never seen him again. So we are a family and we keep in contact by Facebook and email. We keep in contact with… “Are you going to the reunion?” And blah blah blah. We do Facetime. Jay, one of his sergeants, will call and he’s out deer hunting and he says, “Man, look at this deer!” And we’ll keep in contact. Ripcord has been a savior to my husband. Completely different person. Interviewer: Because when he came back from Vietnam, like a lot of soldiers I imagine, he didn’t get any kind of appreciation… Nothing. Interviewer: Now some soldiers talked about they had been spit on or called names or whatever. Had that happened to him? (20:01) I picked him up at the airport. He was spit on and he was called a f-ing murderer. Right in front of me and my mother. And we were right up by the Washington airport. Interviewer: Just some passerby? It was passerby, hippie, that we called hippie, with the long hair and the hippiefied. Interviewer: What did you do? Nothing. It was like, I don’t believe what I just heard. I don’t believe it. Interviewer: Was he in uniform? �He was in uniform. He was in uniform. In fact, when we were coming out of the airport, one of the other guys from his high school was going into ‘Nam, going to ‘Nam. They bypassed right in the airport. Interviewer: Did they say anything to each other? And Freddy just said, “Good luck.” Interviewer: Wow. Said, “Good luck.” And like, Freddy he goes and sometimes I think he has maybe a chip on his shoulder because he doesn’t have a Purple Heart. He was never wounded in Vietnam. (21:04) He was…four out of his unit that never got wounded. And he says, “You know, what we went through, I don’t see how I never got wounded. I really don’t.” Interviewer: What was his position there? Point man, which is actually the first person that goes out into the jungle. Interviewer: And he managed to do that and not get shot? Yep. Interviewer: That’s pretty remarkable. And I told him a guardian angel was on him. Interviewer: At the very least. That’s all I have to…that’s the only thing I can say. Guardian angel was sitting on his shoulder. And he met a priest in Vietnam. It was Father Mathis, if I’m not mistaken. He came to Aberdeen Proving Ground and I was eight months pregnant at the time. He called me and I went and met him. He says, “You know, two weeks ago I was giving mass and your husband was there and I told him I was going to Aberdeen Proving Ground and I would look you up.” And he says, “What do you do during the day?” and everything and I says, “You know, my father, with �being in the military, I never listened to any news.” (22:06) When the news came on, he listened to it, I left it. I left it. He said, “You need to go somewhere.” He said, “You believe what your husband tells you in the letters because if you start thinking, you’ll go crazy.” Interviewer: And did you do that? Did you leave? I used to leave every news report. I used to leave. Interviewer: When he came back, did you start watching the news? Yes, [laughs] I did. I thought, “Wow! This is why I really didn’t want to watch the news!” But he would never. He wouldn’t. Interviewer: Freddy? Yep. He would not. Interviewer: So avoiding talking about it, avoiding looking at it. Yep. It was in the back of his head and he avoided everything. It’s like, we talk now about guys going to VA for therapy and everything. He’s never been to VA for therapy. I keep on saying, “You need to go to the VA.” (23:01) He says, “No, I don’t.” And I have to admit, he doesn’t. Because the Ripcord family is his therapy and he keeps in touch. We go once a month to go up and see Frank Marshall up in New Jersey. Just take a ride. I go, “Frank, we’re getting out of town. We’re coming up for dinner.” We come back home that night or we may stay over. But that’s his therapy, being around these guys. Interviewer: Does that help you too? It does. It really does because I hear stories and I’m going, “Man! You did that? You did this?” And I understand. Interviewer: Does it surprise you, some of the things you hear that he did? Yes. �Interviewer: Why is that? Because I can actually see him at the age of twenty, twenty one, doing that. Because I look at my grandson now, eighteen. I’m going, “Oh my God. I was married at nineteen! That’s a year older than…” And then I’m going, “Your grandfather was drafted.” And I’m looking at him, I’m going, “Look how young you look!” (24:00) And I’m going, “Oh my God, you were doing that at the same age as our, two years more, than what our oldest grandchild will be doing. How did you do it?” And Freddy just looked at it as a job. He was brought up in a strict family. You work for your living. So the military, he looked at the appointment as his job. How he ever made it, I don’t know because he doesn’t know his North, South, East or West [laughs]. I do all the driving! If I go and say, “Give someone directions from our house to his best friend’s house, Sam’s house.” He couldn’t tell you what street. “Just go down there and then you turn and then go down.” Interviewer: But not which direction you turn? Nope. Interviewer: What do you suppose accounts for that? I think because he was brought up in a family that lived off the land. His father hunted. He killed his first deer at nine. So I think when he got in the jungle, it was like, “Hey, I’m hunting. (25:02) So I have to watch for this, have to watch for this.” That’s the only thing I can think that … but to put him on land now? Lord, have mercy! Everybody have trouble going anywhere with him. Even if it’s straight 95 from Maryland to Florida, he would get lost. Somehow. He was in a backup one time on 95 up in Maryland. I was up in Massachusetts visiting my aunt. He calls me, on his cell phone, “I don’t know how to get out of this backup.” He says, “It was a twenty seven mile, twenty seven mile…twenty seven car pileup because of fog.” I said, “Well, �what exit are you at?” “I’m at exit twenty two.” I said, “Well, is that Route 7?” “Yeah.” I said, “Get off at Route 7.” “I can’t get off Route 7!” I says, “It goes the same was as 95!” I said… Interviewer: Trust me! [laughs] And he did. He stayed for seven hours in that backup. (26:01) Finally he got off of it after he got past Baltimore and he kind of knew his way and it was 11:30 at night he called. He said, “I’m home.” And I tease him all the time. “How did you do this in ‘Nam? How did you do this in ‘Nam?” Interviewer: It sounds like you two make a pretty good team. We do [laughs]. Interviewer: You said you’d been brought up Catholic. And was he as well? He was brought up Catholic. I was not. Interviewer: Oh, okay. I was not brought up Catholic. I was brought up in a very Methodist, strict household. Interviewer: Was there a problem when you two married? Yes and no. Interviewer: Because that was before the days of Vatican II, so… I had to convert. I’m a strong believer because I was brought up in a Methodist…we went to Sunday School every Sunday. I was involved. I taught Sunday School when I was a teenager. And I used to see the kids have one parent there, not two. And I said to my husband, I always said, when I got married it was going to be one religion in the household. (27:08) I’m not going to pull the kids apart. You know, this one go there, that one goes there. I said, I’m not going to do it. Becoming Catholic…in those days, you went to Catechism and they convert a lot. And I �said, how can I ask him to come to my religion? So I made the decision to go, to become Catholic. Interviewer: You didn’t think it would be fair to ask him to become…? I didn’t think so because his parents were still very much, his mother was very much into the Catholic religion. Every time she got sick, it was on a Sunday and when she died it was on a Sunday. Interviewer: Okay. So she just was…if they went on vacation, first thing she looked for was a church. What time was Mass? She made sure she went to Mass. (28:00) So that’s how he was brought up. You went to church. So I says, well, I’ll convert. So I sat my parents down and I just said, “I’m converting and we want to have a full mass for our wedding.” And my father says, “That’s your decision.” Interviewer: Going back to that thing where they’re not going to tell you how to do it. Okay. Yep. They said, “It’s your decision.” Interviewer: Was the church important to you all as a family growing or did you drift away? It was but then we drifted away with being in the military, him being gone. When he came home we went to church, you know, on leave. We went to church all the time with the kids. We didn’t push it on our kids because it was actually pushed on Freddy. You have to do this. And Freddy was one, from being in the military, “I’m not making my kids have to do anything. I’m going to ask. If they want to do it, that’s fine. If they don’t want to do it, it’s fine with me too. Because �they have to live with their own feelings.” (29:01) And that’s how we brought our kids up. Do they go to church now? No, but they do their own thing. Interviewer: Lots of changes from… It’s a lot…you know, when we went to church, you went to church. Interviewer: Right. I just think the more, the generations are getting pushback… I mean, Sunday School used to be a big thing when I went to Sunday School. It was, oh, let’s get dressed up. We’d do this. They kids just, they’re not into it anymore and the parents are pushing it. Most of the kids’ parents both work. My mother never worked. She stayed home. The father brought the money in. Nowadays… Interviewer: And you were sort of half and half. Mmm hmm. And so nowadays, mothers and fathers both work. So they look at, probably, weekends, instead of wasting… you know, it’s not wasted time but they look at wasted time going to church for an hour, hour and a half. We could be doing something else, doing yard work, doing this, doing that. Interviewer: Having fun. Sleeping in. All those other things. (30:02) That’s what…mainly. Interviewer: Now you were outside Washington, D.C. then for most of your adult life, I guess. Did you pay a lot of attention to politics that were going on in the capital? No. I stayed away from politics to be very honest with you. I’m a strong believer…the kids used to say, “Who are you voting for?” I said, “Whoever wins.” And that’s what my mother used to tell us. I says, “Who are you going to vote for?” “Whoever wins.” �Interviewer: And was that true or did you just say that because you didn’t want to tell them? Half of it was yes, half of it was no [laughs]. Interviewer: I won’t ask which half! [laughs] Yeah, I did good. I came from Massachusetts. It was always the Kennedys. That’s how I was brought up. That’s how Massachusetts…Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy. (31:00) And then when they got out, it was like, oh, what do I do? Where do I go? Do I want to be a Democrat? Do I want to be this? Do I just want to be a middle? I says, let me be in the middle and see which way I want to go and everything. Interviewer: Well, when you say you didn’t pay a whole lot of attention to politics, did you in terms of the war? So when Johnson announced he was going escalate the war, did you notice that? Or did you notice when Nixon said we’re leaving? I did notice that because it was in our era, but after that it was like politics just went over my head because we weren’t involved anymore. When they did the wall and when they closed the war or whatever, I said to myself, thank God! But during Desert Storm, Freddy got a letter and it said in the letter…and we were already retired out of the military but they can actually pull you back in ‘til you’re fifty five. (32:02) Interviewer: Yeah, I’ve heard that. So he got his letter and I says, “This letter states that you can tell your employer that you got your letter and you will have a forty eight hour notice.” Interviewer: And who was he working for at that point? CSC. He worked with CSC which is science computer corporation [Computer Sciences Corporation] and he’s head of security. �Interviewer: Oh, okay. And so I said, “What are you going to do if you get called?” He says, “I don’t know.” I said, “What do you mean you don’t know?” He said, “Well, I don’t know. I’m a little older now. I’m a little heavier now.” He says, “Now, if I can go back and do my instruction I’ll go in a minute.” He says, “But to go out there and do that PT and all that running. I don’t know about all that. I’m a little over the hill.” And he didn’t have to get called back but he did get his little notice. Interviewer: Did us going to war again in, well, Iraq and Afghanistan and all this other…does it bring back bad memories for him? (33:05) And for you as well? Do you know that was the first time from Vietnam, when Desert Storm, when everything started coming out about Vietnam. He used to watch the welcomes on TV. Interviewer: What did he think? He hated it. Interviewer: Why is that? Because he said, “We deserved that too.” Interviewer: Yeah. We deserved it. We didn’t deserve to be called murderers. We didn’t deserve to be spit on or have, like I said, all of our friends just disowned us. He said, “We don’t deserve that.” And I try to tell him that we learn from each war what not to do. And like I spoke with you before that the Iraq and the Afghanistan… their parents are the Vietnam era. So do they want their kids to be felt like what America did to the Vietnams? (34:00) No. So that’s why they’re getting all these welcomes. Plus, like I told Freddy, he didn’t go in as a unit. He left Maryland as one person. And met up, in Vietnam, and then got a unit. Now, they just take units so you’re with your �friend in reserves, well you’re going to Iraq with him. So they do it as a unit now. They don’t do individuals. Interviewer: Does that make a big difference do you think? I think it does. Interviewer: How so? Because they know each other. Right now, they know where you’re going in. To not know…in Vietnam, Freddy went over to Vietnam not knowing nobody except for a couple guys who went through AIT and basic training with him and they met up in San Francisco and went over with the big bird over Vietnam and then they stayed together. Michael [Grim? illegible] was one who got killed in Vietnam, and a couple other guys that Freddy met and they stayed together but… (35:04) I think it makes a difference going as a group because you train as a group all summer long or…instead of one person, then you get trained. Interviewer: So it’s that companion, companionship’s really important. Mmm hmm. I think it is. Interviewer: How about for you? For me, I tried to hook up with the wives from the Ripcord and people can say that…there’s a couple that comes from Oklahoma, Linda and Rudy Foreman, and she says, “You know Carole, we met three years ago. I feel like we’ve been friends for years.” And we see each other once a year. Interviewer: It’s that military experience and Vietnam experience. It’s just a closeness and we communicate. And we can talk what we go through. Because you can’t talk to your girlfriend whose husband’s never been in Vietnam. She’ll look at you and go, �“You’re crazy!” you know? (36:03) “My husband’s not that way.” But now they open up and we realize we have all lived the hell with the guys, so we’re not alone. Interviewer: When you say that, if I can, what kind of hell was it? Not knowing. Walking on eggshells almost every day. Interviewer: After he’s back? After he’s back. Interviewer: It’s bad enough when he’s there. After he’s back… Walking on eggshells. Interviewer: What were you afraid was going to happen? You hear of horror stories. You hear of guys going off the deep end, killing their families. Interviewer: Right. You hear of them killing themselves. You hear of them turning into alcoholics. You hear of them turning to heroin, doing pot every day. And you’re fearing, is this what he’s coming back like this? That was a lot of my thought too. (37:00) Interviewer: So you were worried before he even showed up at the door? I was worried before he even…he left…I’ll put it this way. He left as my young husband, happy and loving life. He came back almost hating life. The difference was … and the coldness. He had more cold and I remember when his mother passed away. She passed away at his house and the people came in to take her and he said, “Don’t zip the bag.” Interviewer: Why’s that? And I said to him… so they went and zipped the bag. They put his mom in the body bag and zipped the bag. He zipped it back down. He said, “I asked you not to do that.” And I’m going, well what’s the problem? I’m thinking to myself, what’s the problem here? They zipped again. �And he zipped it. He said, “Don’t take her out of there. Don’t do that again in this house.” And what it was, it was looking at a body bag. (38:02) Interviewer: Oh. Well, yeah. It was looking at his friends being in body bags. Interviewer: Right. So and then he explained to me. Not one tear ever came out of him when his mother died until we get to the graveside and everybody left and he collapsed. And he just keeps everything balled up inside until something hits. So it’s also what I used to tell the kids. We walk on eggshells because we don’t know what’s going to … he’s not a violent man but just the hurt, hurtness. And you don’t want to see your loved one hurt. Interviewer: No. But then you don’t know how to comfort him. Interviewer: Which makes it very hard for you. And the kids and stuff, so… But now, like I said, since he’s found the Ripcord, a completely different person. Interviewer: So the young husbands come back. It really is! Interviewer: That’s nice. (39:00) I’m glad. You know, the smile and the happiness. He’s always been happy go-lucky. Even at his work, they’re, “Oh, he’s the greatest guy!” And I’m going, “Oh my god, if you ever knew.” [laughs] If you ever knew what I have lived with! But that’s between the families and everything. And he is a happy go-lucky guy. And doing this every year and we try to tell all the Ripcord vets, “you need to get your story out.” �Interviewer: Yes, you do. Keep telling them that. You need to get your story out. Call your… we’ve got Veterans’ Day coming up. Go home, write your newspaper. Send them the article that’s on our website about the 502. You were in this, and you’d be surprised how many newspapers will call you. Interviewer: There does seem to be a real shift in people’s perceptions of how they need to treat veterans. Even the ones from that era. (40:03) My father-in-law’s a World War II vet and we go, we take him to John Hopkins and we go to John Hopkins and some lady came up to him, we were in a lab, and she says, “Can I take a picture of you and your father together?” And I said, “Freddy…” Because he had his Vietnam hat on. He says, “You don’t see this much, a Vietnam vet and a World War II vet together.” She said, “Can I please take your picture?” And I knew about it because she sent me the picture on the iPhone. I’m going, “Whose is this telephone number?” [laughs] “Who’s this taking a picture of my husband?” And it was down at John Hopkins lab. And I said, that’s where America has come. They have finally, I want to say, broken the era that vets are demanding people and to be proud that you are a vet. You don’t have to hide anymore. (41:01) Interviewer: You’re a veterans’ wife. Let me tell you, I have a shirt that says, “I’m a Veterans’ Wife” and I wear it quite a bit and I’m proud of it. Interviewer: Good. You should be. And we all should be. Interviewer: Thank you so much for telling your story. Well, thank you for asking. I’ve enjoyed it. Interviewer: So have we. �I hope we get some news out to people. You don’t have to hide. Interviewer: That’s good. Thank you. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gilbert, Carol (Interview transcript and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Carol Description An account of the resource Carol Gilbert was born in Nuremburg, Germany on July 25, 1950. After two years in Germany, her family moved back to the United States. She got married soon after graduating high school, but unfortunately her husband was drafted to Vietnam soon after. Freddie Gilbert went to Fort Bragg, North Carolina for basic training and Fort McClellan, Alabama for advanced individual training. After that, Freddie Gilbert briefly visited home, and Carol Gilbert became pregnant during that time. The two exchanged letters daily, and Carol Gilbert sent him a telegram when their son was born. Freddie Gilbert came home a few months later and continued his service in Fort Meade, Maryland. While her husband served, Carol Gilbert worked as a bookkeeper and a babysitter. While they were living on base, some of their friends did not support the war and were hostile to the Gilberts. To this day, the Gilberts’ closest friends are those who have served in the military. They still meet with some of their military friends regularly, and Carol Gilbert is always surprised when hearing about her husband’s service in Vietnam. In 1973, Freddie Gilbert was deployed to Germany and Carol Gilbert befriended many military wives while she was there. Even at home, Freddie Gilbert was often on Temporary Duty, so Carol Gilbert did most of the work raising their children because her husband was usually away. Carol Gilbert converted from Methodist to Catholic when she got marries because Freddie Gilbert was Catholic. Religion was important to them, but they did not attend church as often when Freddie Gilbert was away. When he came back on leave, they went to church as a family but did not force their kids to join them. After Freddie Gilbert was discharged from the military and working for Computer Sciences Corporation, he received a letter notifying him that he could get called back into the military until he was 55. Fortunately, he was not called back. Carol Gilbert recalls her husband's demeanor becoming cold when he came back from Vietnam. However, joining the Fire Support Base Ripcord Association helped him return to his "happy-go-lucky" self. Now that America is past the era when veterans were called murderers and belittled in public, Carol Gilbert is proud to be a veterans’ wife. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Coryell, Janet (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-10-09 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GilbertC1548V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e105bdd4b075eb05353374f3ae7f0050.jpg 247691002769b0ed72be53aa353ca477 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_K168-0001 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1970-07-18 Title A name given to the resource Rob Tyner and Wayne Kramer of MC5 Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of vocalist Rob Tyner and guitarist Wayne Kramer of the band MC5 performing at the WCFL Concert in Chicago, Illinois on July 18, 1970, by Douglas R. Gilbert. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource MC5 (Musical group) WCFL (Radio station : Chicago, Ill.) Concerts Black-and-white photography Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Chicago (inhabited place) 1970s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f4d51f315acea2df7de6b99d1860f2bf.jpg f0fe3a14bdb6f3140b090b14301d0cef Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_K168-0002 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1970-07-18 Title A name given to the resource Rob Tyner and Michael Davis of MC5 Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of vocalist Rob Tyner and bassist Michael Davis of the band MC5 performing at the WCFL Concert in Chicago, Illinois on July 18, 1970, by Douglas R. Gilbert. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource MC5 (Musical group) WCFL (Radio station : Chicago, Ill.) Concerts Black-and-white photography Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Chicago (inhabited place) 1970s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0e3b9c11b811c662c35f5546dee01916.jpg 6e5e4f254a82b80288399b3032a85e3f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_K168-0003 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1970-07-18 Title A name given to the resource Rob Tyner of MC5 Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of vocalist Rob Tyner of the band MC5 performing at the WCFL Concert in Chicago, Illinois on July 18, 1970, by Douglas R. Gilbert. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource MC5 (Musical group) WCFL (Radio station : Chicago, Ill.) Concerts Black-and-white photography Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Chicago (inhabited place) 1970s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a7605ab09a84ec10d536acbf64210d8f.jpg f3c9c4084da2dce19c4b57313c114dba Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_K168-0004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1970-07-18 Title A name given to the resource Rob Tyner of MC5 Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of vocalist Rob Tyner of the band MC5 performing at the WCFL Concert in Chicago, Illinois on July 18, 1970, by Douglas R. Gilbert. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource MC5 (Musical group) WCFL (Radio station : Chicago, Ill.) Concerts Soldier Field (Chicago, Ill.) Black-and-white photography Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Chicago (inhabited place) 1970s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives