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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Fred Garcia
Vietnam War
Total Time: 27:58
Childhood and Pre-Enlistment (00:18)





Born in Lansing, MI in 1948
Obtained a Masters Degree from Michigan State University in Administration
Father was a World War II Veteran
(01:20) Drafted into the Army in 1968

Training (01:48)




Attended Basic Training at Fort Knox, KY
(01:55) Took Advanced Infantry Training at Fort Polk, LA.
(02:02) He was selected at Fort Polk for a special unit. To be selected, they had to
score very well on both the IQ and PT tests. There were 30 men in this unit. They
had special training while they were at Fort Polk.

Active Duty (04:40)





He was sent to Fort Meyers, VA to work a desk clerk job and training ASA troops
for night missions and duty.
(05:38) He was then sent to the DMZ in Vietnam, but was then shortly sent to the
DMZ in Korea.
(08:02) He was involved in some brief firefights while in Korea.
(09:10) They had some dog handlers in his unit.

Post-Service (11:05)



He went to college after coming back from Korea, and worked as a teacher after
he graduated.
He has two sons.

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Boring, Frank</text>
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                    <text>April 02, 2020
I think it is safe to assume that most people I know feel like the month of march actually had 62
days. COVID-19 has taken the lives of many and the disease is only spreading. Governor
Whitmer has more or less kept the health of the population in mind and as a result there have
been many changes. As a result of these state changes, education has been affected at all
levels. Universities are still running, but have transitioned to online coursework. Many students
have been asked to leave the university dormitories. To my understanding, people are allowed
to stay if they have nowhere to go back home to. My wife Nikita and I have fortunately not been
affected too much by this aspect as we live off campus in Grand Rapids, MI. This means that I
did not have to worry about relocating last minute, however I know some of my friends have had
to do so. Some of them literally left the state as their homes were elsewhere, such as Illinois,
and other states. I’m starting to miss them a bit.
Initially I thought it would be great to just stay home and work on my academics. However not
soon after the public schools also closed down and as a result my 3 children have been at home
since then. What this means is that Nikita and I are now online college students, parents, and
novice homeschool teachers. This has been quite a challenge and i’ve had to learn that as
much as I would like, I can’t do it all. As a result I’m sure my kids get less learning time than
they did before at school in an effort to give every aspect of my life right now a fair amount of
attention. I’ve reduced my sleep hours(to a reasonable 6 hours) in order to do as much as I can
while awake. I do end up taking a nap in the middle of the day which more or less equates to
the same amount of total sleeping hours. However at least this way I have some time after the
kids go to bed when I am still awake and able to work without disruptions.
There have been some good things that have come about this change. I have been able to slip
in some more spanish into my kids vocabulary. I have also learned how to take productive
breaks. In practice this means I do some sort of non academic activity with the kids in order to
clear my mind and well, be a halfway decent parent. Nikita is an early childhood development
major so I often feel like I'm not good enough. She’s never specifically made me feel this way,
but because of all of the things she learns, I sometimes feel guilty and maybe set the bar too
high on myself on what a good parent should be. It can get stressful at times, especially now
that we are home a lot! There are only so many rooms that I can use to try to destress.
People ask things like “Can your in-laws help take care of the kids?”. Which, ok fine. It’s a good
question to ask just to consider it as a possibility. The reality is that my parents live in California
primarily. Nikita’s biological mom now lives in Holland, MI, and her step-mom lives in Gladwin,
MI. It requires some traveling to get to either one of them and it is not anywhere ideal to go to
them every day for help watching the kids. However, even if for some reason financially
traveling that much made sense, we are not the only grandchildren that would be asking for help
and as a result we minimize the amount of time they visit. Today is one day where Nikita took
the kids over to my mother-in-law in Holland and we will soon start to paint some of the walls in
the house. We have been putting this off as it is difficult to do so with the 1 year old at home.

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                  <text>This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. &#13;
&#13;
The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. </text>
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                    <text>April 3, 2020
Yesterday Nikita took the kids over to grandma’s house in Holland, MI and when she got home
we decided we were going to finish painting the kitchen and living room. We have been putting
this off so long because it is difficult to do when you have a 1 year old running around. This was
in the afternoon, so we accomplished painting the walls and got halfway done with the trim in
the room when we decided that it would be good to call it a night. It was relaxing, and since the
kids were not home it was like going on a date. I was actually able to talk and say more than
one sentence at a time where normally I would get interrupted by a kid. Once we did that we
played some videogames together. It feels like years since we were last able to do that. It was
nice, we played Mario Party 9 on the Nintendo Wii. I’m pretty sure we stayed up till about 2am
this morning, which is also not typical for us.
Currently I have an assignment that I need to complete as soon as possible, or at least my part
of it. It is a mathematical modeling scenario on COVID-19. We are more or less taking the
mathematical model that was formulated for SARS-Cov and trying to see if we can fit it to the
current COVID-19 data. I’ve been able to approximate an infection rate of COVID-19 using
Python but I’m not sure how accurate it is, seeing how I’m not an epidemiologist.
When we made the transition to online classes, it was a bit stressful. This was not because I
was not used to independent study, but because the kids are always at home and it’s difficult to
get things done when the limited 24 hour day has to get shared. To date however I’ve received
reaffirming messages from professors telling me that I’m doing enough and that I shouldn’t
worry too much. I know some of my classmates are falling behind. Hopefully those professors
are being reasonable with exact deadlines like mine are. I know Nikita is also struggling a bit.
She is an early childhood development major, and most of her assignments are related to what
she would actually do in a classroom. As a result she has had to transition to teaching online,
but instead of having children as her audience, she has her professors. As a result she has
been required to use software she is not accustomed to. For example, she’s had to use
Powtoon and we had to work together to figure out how to do anything on it. I believe the key
thing is that we have to remember that we are all people and as long as we communicate with
each other the other party is most likely going to be understanding and responsive.
I don’t know how people see their professors, but I hold mine in good regard. They remind me
that not everything is work, and that I should not feel guilty to tend to other parts of my life.
Family is important to me, and sometimes I feel guilty when I’m not working to spend time with
them. So it’s nice to have them on my side. I hope that other professors are doing similar things
with the students they communicate with. Everyone has something outside of academia/work
they consider important. One of my professors Dr. Ortiz-Robinson has children and sometimes
during class sessions I can hear their faint sounds in the background and it makes me feel
better because there are people out there that understand my predicament. I have to admit
though, I miss seeing them in person. There is nothing like walking into a professor's office
hours, and talking about mathematics. On the other hand I’m grateful that more people are
learning to use video call software. It makes ‘meeting’ people that are say in a graduate school
you want to attend easier when you may not travel there. I’ve been able to meet Dr. Janet

�Vassilev, Dr. Jacob Schroder, and Dr. Alexandru Buium at The University of New Mexico and
learned a lot of new things.

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Monday, morning. There seems to be some sort of routine going on now. Elena Is still at her
grandma’s house in Holland, MI. Elise is watching cartoons and Elarik is running around the
house. There are some different things though. Nikita was still able to get surgery for her carpal
tunnel on Saturday, so she’s recovering now. It should help her be able to do more with her
hands once she recovers. I know she’s been having a difficult time writing for more than a few a
minute.
Most of my activities have revolved around work and school, at least up to last week when I
found out on Friday that I was laid off from my employment at Grand Rapids Community
College. My other activities have been just the usual chores at home, and trying to learn some
new things. I’ve been on a website named codeacademy and started learning about the terminal
and bash scripting. There are many different types of computer operating systems, but the ones
that seem to get quite a bit of attention are; Windows, OSX, and Linux Distributions. OSX and
Linux are both UNIX based systems and as a result are similar to each other. I was interested in
learning how to interact with the terminal for these operating systems, well specifically Linux
terminal, or BASH programming. I learned a little bit on looping structures and conditional
statements. I also learned some commands I didn’t know about before. One of them was the
touch command which can be used to create empty files. Pipe operator that allows you to
redirect output from one command to input to a different command. I learned how to use nano a
bit, which is a text editor that is run in the terminal. I’ve also tried to learn a little bit of italian. It is
really close to spanish and is a phonetic language. I bought a book of short stories to see if I
could go through it. So far I'm still on the first short story, and fully understand the first
paragraph.
What this means is that most of my hobbies, other than biking, hiking, and camping are mainly
solo activities. What this means is that I wasn’t a big participant of student organizations, sports
or clubs at GVSU when the school was still in normal session. As a result this Quarantine has
not affected me as much as others who were actively involved in sports, clubs, and student
organizations. I’ve been especially focused on finishing off the semester strong. This means I’ve
been paying extra attention to my class assignments, their presentation, and thoroughness.
Electronic Student Scholars Day is coming up on the 8th of this month and the lead up to
submitting our presentations was a bit stressful. Particularly because I didn’t know if I was going
to have enough time to finish. Fortunately I was able to pull through! It was difficult, but I didn’t
give myself enough credit.

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                    <text>April 7, 2020
It is currently 5:30 AM EST and I plan on trying out a new routine today, hopefully this will allow
me to get some work done early on before the kids get overly energized and need my attention.
I know both Nikita and I have been stressing for time, and so hopefully this way when she needs
to work on her academics, I can focus on the kids and not skip a beat with my work either. I
have to admit however, I’ve been ‘neglecting’ my work a bit by visiting my parents. They are in
town as well, as of almost two weeks ago at least. Usually they are in their home in Michoacan,
MX, or in California with my older brother. They bought their flights a while back and decided not
to try to reschedule. They are the kind of people who are more or less thinking, ‘i’m old and
have lived a good life, so why not’. I know that right now it’s a big taboo, but I have been visiting
them. They are currently over at my sister Nancy’s place. When I first moved to Michigan from
California, I had not seen them for several years, and even after that, the most I ever got to see
them was maybe once a year.
I know that Nikita has fears about going out at all, but I think we both agree that for the super
high benefit of the kids getting to see their abuelito and abuelita it is worth it. Because of my
university experience, I don’t have very many friends that share my culture, or language. As a
result my kids don’t get very much exposure to my culture and spanish other than when I visit
my family. As far as home life, as bilinguals and multilinguals, we tend to communicate in the
language that gets a message across quickly. This means that I usually end up talking in
english because Nikita is very well versed in it. One thing that I’ve tried to do is to get the kids to
watch cartoons in spanish. Elena, the oldest; is now finally starting to be ok with it, and actually
requested it last night. Elise gets really upset when I try to do it. I suspect that the only reason
she doesn’t like it is because the voiceovers are really bad. Elarik is only 20 months and hasn’t
yet started talking in sentences, so he doesn’t usually mind what we watch. However I suspect
that he notices the difference in voices from original english to voiced over spanish. The funny
thing is that I grew up on voiceovers because my parents naturally just watched tv shows and
movies in spanish. I even remember watching ‘old movies’ that were broadcast live on
Telefutura and hearing the announcer say ‘Nuevo Estreno’ (New Premiere) even though the
movie was released a few years back and nothing new.
Nikita has also been visiting her biological mom who now lives in Holland, MI. I think she really
misses most times. The girls definitely miss being able to visit her house frequently, which is
something they were able to do when they still lived in Grand Rapids, MI. She also uses this trip
as a time to stop at the grocery store for our needed items both food and sanitary essentials.
Last week we ran out of toilet paper and had to use paper towels, which is fine, it just took us a
while to locate some toilet paper. She was able to secure some yesterday. We have not been
able to visit her step-mom as that drive is a little longer and as a result Nikita feels that it is more
risky. Fortunately, her step-mom is tech savvy enough so that they can have video calls and
they communicate in that way.
My siblings have been doing well. My brother in law Alfredo recently came back to the states
after years of going through the legal process of becoming a US citizen. The funny thing is that

�most american’s think that it's like any other application process where you apply and within
weeks you are good to go. So when they hear that a person has to go back to mexico and do it
back legally it will be a short stay, almost like a vacation and then they come back a few weeks
later. This is not farther from the truth as the individual still has to have some sort of income for
their time there, to live and to pay all the required fees. Irma is definitely happier now, or at least
it appears to be so.
My sister Veronica has had a difficult time with Eddie now that he’s been home more. I can tell
because he needs a lot of attention and since she is still working, she probably feels like every
waking hour she is at home she needs to tend to him. He is a great child, but also has special
needs, and that can be stressful. Heck, my children have no special needs, and they can get
very overwhelming.
Nancy is doing well, she has married recently and is living a wonderful life here in michigan. She
moved here last year. Her and ‘Lobo’ (Fransisco) met 2 summers ago when my family came to
visit. It was definitely a difficult move for my niece and nephew however. I suspect it’s because
they had to leave friends behind, probably even a girlfriend or boyfriend.

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                    <text>April 8, 2020
Today is Elena’s birthday! Nikita and I put some decorations for the house together since we
can’t have people over. My sister made her a cake that had an LOL doll theme to it. We took
pictures and took the cake over to her grandma's house to eat. We realize this is a ‘big no no’
but honestly, you can only isolate yourself so much. There’s no point in isolation if at the end of
it all you wont get to see your loved ones. I fully realize this is a flawed statement but that’s how
we feel. To be fair however, we do take precautionary measures and use hand sanitizer and
other sanitary methods. Grandma (Melissa), or specifically Nikita’s biological mom lives out in
the country and as a result social distancing is not too difficult even within her house, as it is
pretty large.
As of right now we don’t know of anyone that is sick with the coronavirus. I know one of my
friends Michael is currently sick with a cold, but to his knowledge it is not COVID-19. I don’t
believe he is getting tested. I want to say that a week or two before classes were closed, I
myself had a really bad illness. I was treated for Influenza. However, I was not actually tested to
confirm that this was the case. The illness more or less had the symptoms of COVID-19.
Shortness of breath, a constant fever, fatigue, however I didn't have severe coughs, so maybe it
wasn’t. I’m pretty sure the kids brought it home from school. The youngest two started with
constant fevers and I started staying home with them, around the same time Nikita started
showing symptoms, and I followed right after. It took us all just over a week to feel decent.
During this time I’ve been wanting to learn new things on top of school work, and then realized
that I’m trying to do too much. So I've been looking at things to do for the summer. However, I’m
not sure that will even happen especially now that I’ve been laid off from my employment at
grcc. My Alayont Fellowship funding will end at the end of the semester, so I need to really start
looking for a job. It will probably end up being full time employment somewhere, or an
internship? I honestly don't know right now. My F-GAP advisor suggested some places to start
looking into, so I really need to get my resume updated asap. I don’t have this ready right now
just because most of my professional documents have been geared toward graduate school
applications. As a result I have poured lot’s of energy into my CV. I did find some places on an
initial search that might actually hire me, but I won't know until I update my resume, and start
networking.
There will be many people that will be out there looking for jobs. I hope that I get lucky with at
least one, especially since I’m really only looking for a temporary position during the summer
months. It’s a shame that I won't be able to spend the summer doing mathematics like I had
planned. But again like my advisor mentioned, this is an opportunity. I need to capitalize on my
current skill set and offer that to the society that I am a part of. The job might not end up being
mathematics, but I should be able to find a position that utilizes my talents.

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                    <text>April 9, 2020
Another day! We are still alive, and healthy. We have not resorted to domestic abuse, which
apparently is on the rise, not surprising. Likewise my wife and I havent resorted to alcoholism
either, but apparently that is also on the rise, which I suppose is not surprising either. I can’t
confirm these claims on the increase of domestic violence and alcoholism in the general public
through any data. My statements are based purely on a small sample size and their opinions, so
who knows how accurate this is. Anyways, I’ve been able to make some progress in my classes
and manuscripts for both my Alayont Fellowship research and my Capstone Class. Without
going into two much detail my Alayont Fellowship involves research in Algorithms, while my
research in my Capstone class involves research in generalizing results in Euclidean Geometry
to Spherical and Hyperbolic Geometries. There is so much more I could do with either one, but
sadly time is running out and I must finish compiling my results soon. This is the nature of
research, you feel like there is alway something more you can prove, but also remember that at
some point you need to write up your results.
Elena ended her day very well on her birthday. She got plenty of gifts both in the form of cool
‘LOL’ clothing, to a bicycle. We spent the day at her grandma's house (Nikitas bio mom) and ate
cake with them. During that time she was able to have a video call with her Elementary school
classroom and during the call they all did a scavenger hunt. Some kids were very quick on the
draw. Although she was not at home, she probably didn’t know where to look for things, so
Nikita helped her out a bit. She was a good sport and was not too frustrated with losing. She
normally is very hard on herself when she doesn’t win at something. I recently started playing
Mario Party 9 with her. At first she would get very mad when losing a minigame, over time
however, I think she started realizing that just because you don’t win every single mini game, it
does not mean you will lose the whole game. I think this has helped her overcome her inability
to cut herself slack when things don’t go the way she would like. As a plus I get to play video
games while teaching my kid a life lesson. So I suppose that is a good thing that’s come out of
COVID 19. Although it makes me wonder, maybe I should be doing a lot more(less?) even
when there is not a pandemic going on.
On the other hand my middle child is having a really rough time. She is a very social kid, and is
very much missing the interaction she used to get with her friends and teachers. She is currently
in Pre-K so most of what she does is activity based learning. So when she can’t get that level of
continuous attention at home, it really puts her in a depression and sometimes she cries. She
will say things like “No one wants to play with me”, or “No one pays attention to me”. It saddens
Nikita and I, especially since we are trying to divide our time reasonably between school work
and family life. I suppose the ideal thing would be if we had minimal school and work
requirements so that we could provide each other more family attention. Maybe… I’m by no
means an expert in this topic. However it does make me think, how did people back in the day
do it? How much time was devoted towards child rearing and what was truly important? During
the time that I do commit to family, should I spend it doing academic things, non academic, or a
mixture of both? What are some realistic goals and expectations? There is no handbook for this,
and if it was I’m sure it would have been in my email inbox a long time ago just waiting for me to

�read it because I find that most suggestions come from a privilege point of view, where money
and resources in general is not an issue.
I recently read an article written by a father and the struggle him and his wife are facing with
having to work from home. The main theme was “parents are not ok”. I most definitely agree
with this. I’m tired of telling people, and sometimes myself that we are doing ok, that I’m doing
ok. I am not doing ok, I am stressed, I feel like I’m not doing enough, and I feel ashamed. I feel
ashamed because it seems like in our culture we are supposed to be good parents all the time.
We are suppose to be ok with the stress of having and raising children. We are supposed to not
have feelings of depression when our kids overwhelm us. I feel ashamed because I have these
feelings. I know Nikita does as well, but we manage. We put our happy faces on and tell the
world we are ok, because it is custom to say you are ok. Maybe this is also the conditioning that
our culture has given us, but who really cares about what we are going through? When being
asked how are you it’s just a formality to start a conversation? I see my wife’s struggles, and
she sees mine. Maybe that is the reason why we never ask each other directly how we are
doing, because it reminds us of the same questions that we feel people only ask out of an
obligation to our societal conditioning.
I don’t know, and if someone said they knew, I would be hesitant to believe them.
On a side note, this morning I talked to a graduate student at The University of New Mexico,
and learned a little bit more about the university. He was able to provide me with some advice
on how best to prepare for graduate school qualifying exams. Maybe that is what I will do this
upcoming summer; applying for jobs or working and studying on qualifying exams.

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                    <text>April 10, 2020
Yesterday I was definitely feeling some strong emotions, especially about parenting. Fortunately
as the day progressed it started getting better. I played mario party 9 with the kids. Played
outside and even got caught up in a mini snow shower(strange). I would have thought it was
hail, the way it suddenly came down. We quickly came back inside, we didn’t bother to check
the temperature. After dinner we went back outside and played for a few minutes, but the wind
chill was uncomfortable enough to where the kids didn’t want to be out for long. Then I played
with balloons with Elise and Nikita. They had still been out from Elena's birthday for the kids to
play with. Elarik accidentally(purposefully?) popped one of them by accident, he looked shocked
but ultimately let out a laughter that only he can put out.
On a work note, I had some time after the kids went to bed to look into my research a bit more. I
was able to identify three conjectures for future research. I’m almost convinced that they are
true and have an outline on how to prove each one. I also was able to look at a strategy for
online searching games or adaptive searching games. This is really exciting! I might continue
this in the summer if things work out. Also one of my friends gave me a link to a COVID-19 relief
fund application so that was nice, because that led me into a hunt for scholarship money for the
fall semester. I have a fellowship lined up, however, it would be nice to have some emergency
funds. The fellowship I'm sure is nice for an individual, but not as substantial for a family of 5. I
was able to identify two scholarships that I qualify for, so that was nice. I started doing some
preliminary research on what time of materials are needed.
Today I need to file for unemployment, I’ve been putting it off because I don’t like the idea of
having to do it, but I know it's necessary right now. I heard that recently the UIA’s web based
system has been revamped and as a result is more usable than in past years. I don’t really
know how that is all going to play out, but it’s the next thing on my to do list. I also have a phone
call to make for a possible employment opportunity, but that won't start until July. So that’s
unfortunate. Also it’s not even guaranteed since it’s tutoring, and if GRCC decides to close in
person instruction all summer, then there goes my job again as well.
Somehow I signed myself up for a coding competition that starts next week and I haven’t even
bothered to look and practice for it, so I better get on it. My thinking was that it is algorithm
based and so it would be a good way to look at new problems and find strategies that can be
proven successful through the power of mathematics. The main issue I have right now is that
I'm not too familiar with python’s standard functions for working with stdin, stdout, and stderr,
and how to flush the output. Anyways it doesn’t seem like it would be too bad, I just haven’t
done it.
Not much to report on today, I spent a good deal of time playing and working yesterday. I also
had a good laugh with peers from around the country on topics related to the history of
mathematics. I definitely appreciate them. Also, I received two books in the mail recently, one
on topology on the other on Algebra. I intend on using the this summer to prepare for qualifying
exams at the University of New Mexico.

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                    <text>April 15, 2020
Another day has come and gone. I’ve been able to make some much needed edits to my final
paper for my capstone course. However, in the process I’ve discovered that there is an issue
that I have not addressed. What this means is that I have plenty of work ahead of me. However,
the paper in its entirety is more or less coming together nicely.
Today I did the unthinkable again and we visited my sister for my nephew’s birthday. I still feel
guilty about it, but it’s not stopping me. I guess you could say it’s a guilty pleasure. The kids had
a great time with their cousins. We had some posole for dinner, and Isaac ate some really
awesome cake that my sister made.
We went outside to play for a while too. The kids were cold so we had to bust out the winter
clothing that we thought we wouldn’t need anymore. We were definitely wrong about that one.
Not much to talk about today. I still have lots of things to do but there never seems to be enough
time anymore.
On the bright side, lots of people including myself received their “Stimulus Check Today”. Many
are happy as it will allow them to pay their bills. Some are more or less waiting until the
pandemic passes and they can go out to spend it. Me? I’m definitely saving it for unforeseen
costs related to moving cross country to attend the University of New Mexico.
I did also get to talk to Page, she’s a cool friend. We agreed that once a week we would video
call and do some math together. We will most likely be looking at “An Analysis Sketchbook”, it is
a text that was written by Dr. Hodge, one of the professors at GVSU. I’m kind of excited about
this, we are starting next week on Thursday. I hope she doesn’t back out as this would be a
good opportunity to do some studying in Analysis.
I haven’t been watching netflix and other streaming services as much as my friends. However, I
did start watching Boruto with Nikita today. I also started rewatching Dragon Ball Z en italiano, in
an attempt to learn some italian. It’s very similar to spanish phonetically. This aspect combined
with the fact that I’ve already watched all of Dragon Ball Z allowed me to decipher some of the
words in Italiano that I didn’t know.

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                    <text>April 17, 2020
Yesterday I didn’t write either. Oh well, I can’t seem to be able to keep a consistent schedule. At
least I’m not as stressed out as I have been. Yesterday I got an email from David about an
avenue of research to tackle. I did a little work on that, but not too much. I have a problem that I
can try to tackle and I’m ready to try it. However today I decided not to do it, or really much work
besides meeting with my MTH 305 final project team. We went over what we had and I was able
to finish the code part of the project. This would allow Mike to generate any charts we would
need for the paper write up.
Once this project is done with, and I write the peer evaluation form, that would complete all the
requirements for mth 305. That would leave me with just my edited version of my paper for my
capstone. Will sent me edit suggestions yesterday, but I have not looked at them in detail. I will
probably look at that tomorrow. It was a really interesting result, however It would have been
nice to have solved the problem I was looking at on the hyperbolic plane.
I’m graduating soon, and it feels great! There has been so much work that has been put towards
this and here I am. I won an award from the math department. I’m supposed to get it in the mail
soon, and at some point also get a book in the mail as well. So that’s cool, no ceremony though.
The same for my McNair Scholars graduation, nothing celebration. It is very much unfortunate!
The office asked for our mail addresses today, I’m guessing they will be mailing the awards and
medallions as well. To top it all off, we recently received an email telling graduating students
when the graduation ceremony will be. It’s scheduled for October! Seriously!? I’ll be in New
Mexico by then! We were also told that if we could not make it to the october graduation, that we
could attend the normally scheduled December Graduation which i suppose would be doable,
but still! The point is that I would have to travel from New Mexico to Grand Rapids just so I can
attend my Graduation.
There’s so many things to be upset about but I have to admit there are plenty of good things
going on right now. I’ve been practicing my programming and even signed myself for a coding
competition tomorrow. I believe it lasts 3 hours. So that should be fun! Maybe, haha I have no
formal CIS training. So I’ve been learning about data structures on the go. I tried some practice
problems. I was able to get one problem pretty easily once I figured out how input from stdin
works with python. The second one was very challenging for me to solve, and I never actually
figured out the optimal way to do so. But I did figure out the brute force way to do it, so that was
cool. I didn’t get a chance to try a 3rd problem as I had so many other things going on as well
with school that it didn’t feel productive.
On a random note, I bought a really cool fountain pen that writes like a dream. I can’t stop using
it. It just glides over your paper. It is so easy to write with and the ink looks great too! I had
Nikita try it, and she loved it, so I bought her one too, it should be in the mail by next week. She
will have her finals and then, hopefully… She can start her internship at grcc, which will be paid.
I really hope it does not get cancelled, but the way it’s seeming now, it should run even if it
starts later in the summer.

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                    <text>April 18, 2020
Today should be an interesting day. I have a coding competition scheduled from 7 to 10 pm. I
did some practice, but really nothing substantial enough to be considered a good amount of
practice. I’m excited about this. The COVID-19 quarantine has allowed me to practice my
python programming a little bit. I think that it’s more or less my hobby, even though I
occasionally have to use it for my projects.
It’s allowed me to start forming ideas of my research with searching games. David has
continued to help me with my questions which I am very much so grateful for. Anyways, it’s the
weekend and I’m sure Nikita will want to do things with the kids, either outside or indoors. If it
ends up being indoors, maybe we could play a board game or something. Elena has also been
wanting me to do yoga with her. There is this person on youtube who does yoga for kids, and
she really enjoys it. Although we don’t really have that much floor space.
Yesterday ended on an interesting note. Nikita made some hamburgers and fries; that was
super bomb. We watched Boruto together, and actually we watched a good 3 episodes. This is
more or less a triumph of parenthood. I mean most of the time the kids just want to climb on
their mom and we hardly get to talk, let alone sit next to each other for more than a few minutes
at a time. Also, someone (probably Elarik) cracked one of the iPad’s screen. It was kind of
frustrating, but it is what it is. Especially since we didn’t buy a screen protector for it. It only had
a case. I suspect the case kept it going as long as possible, so it did it’s job. Nikita overheard
elise and elena talking, and more or less saying they have no clue what happened to the tablet.
They usually tell the truth about things that happen. So it’s quite possible they told the truth
when we asked them what happened. I could get the screen fixed, but with the current
quarantine, I haven’t bothered to check if Genius is open, which I'm assuming that it’s not since
it does not seem like it would be an essential business.
Anyways, I just got distracted and started looking at their website, and it appears that they are
still open for business. I will try calling at 10am, It’s possible they haven’t updated their website.
If it’s open I’ll probably get it checked out. Hopefully it’s not too much to get it fixed!
Anyways, today should be another interesting day. I think i’m going to go make some coffee in a
bit and start my day. Although I think I’ll try to hang out with Nikita again after the baby gets his
morning snuggles in. He sure does love being held by his momma in the morning when he
wakes up. He wont have it with anyone else. I’m currently sitting next to elena as it’s a bit
quieter in this room. She’s still sleeping and probably will be for a minute, she went to bed a little
later than usual yesterday, but It’s fine.

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                    <text>April 19, 2020
What a wild night yesterday. So I had signed myself up for a coding competition, which I then
proceeded to forget about. Then about 1 hour into the competition, I remembered and signed on
as fast as I could. Anyways, the competition is 3 hours long, so I logged in with less than 2
hours left. I completed one(out of 4) problems in the first 30 minutes. Then I went on to the
second problem, I finished coding my solution and hit submit, only to realize after some
frustration that I had read the prompt totally wrong. Anyways, the competition ended and I as
not able to type my solution in on time. Either way, I knew I had a solution, so I kept working and
what happened was that even though I had a solution it didn’t meet the memory allocation
requirements set in the competition, so that was kind of a bummer.
As I was getting ready to transition into a video call with a group of peers, I hear 5’ish loud
bangs outside. When I asked Nikita what happened, she said she saw two vehicles dash in
opposite directions after the gun shots. She proceeded to call 911 and reported what had
happened. It turns out that two people were shot and injured, but nothing life threatening, at
least that’s what Nikita was told last night when she provided the police with information. I will
probably do a search on the internet later to see if more details have been released to the
public, but wow that was wild. The shooting happened literally within 30 feet of my house!
On a high note however, one of my friends asked for help in her analysis studies. Unfortunately
I wasn’t able to help as much as I thought. However, I felt confident that I know what I did and
not what I didn’t. It’s strange, when you are in different math modes. One mode could be, “I
have no idea what to do”, another is “I think I know what needs to happen” (and your wrong), or
“I think I know what needs to happen” (and you know your wrong), or “I think i know what needs
to happen” (you are sure you are right). When I was helping, I made it clear to say when I felt I
was right about a process but the details were wrong. That is a very neat feeling, because it tells
me I know enough about math to know that I am probably wrong about a detail, and also
enough to know that I’m going in the right general direction.
Also, Nikita and I were able to watch some more Boruto yesterday. It was only like 2 episodes,
but that is way better than nothing. The show is getting really good, although we both admit that
it’s not as good as Naruto, but maybe we are just biased. I started scoping out the new Digimon
show that recently started airing. I remember watching the original series as a kid. I think I want
to watch it again, maybe big girl Elena might find it interesting. I used to think it was the coolest
thing ever as a kid. My dad even took me to watch “Digimon The Movie”, it was pretty epic if you
ask me.
I’m looking forward to the day. It is currently 7:30am and I’m ready to start. I plan on cleaning up
the house a little more or I guess I should say that is the focus for today. Nikita has committed
herself to doing the laundry while I did the same for dishes that get used through the day and I’ll
probably end up cooking dinner and doing some other things as well.

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                    <text>April 21, 2020
Another morning. There are some parts about being more or less allowed to just be at home
that I am enjoying. I’ve been able to work on things a little more efficiently now that I know what
times of the day that the kids need attention and I can use the rest of the time for whatever work
I want to get done. Yesterday we went for a walk down two blocks. It was interesting to
‘rediscover’ our neighborhood. There were not many people around, but there were some that
stepped outside to have some fresh air. I also learned recently that the McDonalds that is right
down the road has partnered with GRPD in an attempt to promote less crime in the
neighborhood, so we shall see what happens with that as time goes on. I won’t be around to
see the long term change, but I sure hope that it happens because the neighborhood kids need
that stability so they can focus on what is important in life. That is family, education and their
interests and not drugs and money.
That reminds me, at some point we will need to start packing to go to New Mexico. I hear talk
that ‘the economy’ will open back up soon. I honestly would rather that it didn’t. Maybe wait until
sometime in late May? Perhaps this way it is most likely the case that I can move to New
Mexico and start my graduate school studies. I’ve been starting to study material for the exams.
Specifically I started going through the Hungerford text on Algebra, the Apostol book on
Analysis and the Gamelin,Green book on Topology. It has been interesting, but it has also
shown me how much I still have to learn to be successful.
I’ve been still working on my research on and off and was able to prove a thing. Specifically if
we have a searching game with two unknowns, the ideal first question would be to ask about
the first n/3 questions. This forces the responder to respond with ‘There is exactly 1 of the
secret numbers in your question’. This is because a response of 0 would leave ceiling(n/3)
choose 2 possibility pairs as possible solutions, a response of 1 would leave
(ceiling(n/3))*(floor(2n/3)) possibility pairs, and a response of 2 would leave (floor(2n/3)) choose
2 possibility pairs left as possible solutions. I was able to prove this with mathematical induction.
My goal is to write this up soon and then ask David what he thinks, and maybe get an idea of
how to proceed from here. What would be good would be to guarantee that on question two the
responder would respond with 0 or 2, preferably in general. Then the idea would be to alternate
between questions on forcing the responder to respond with 1 and then 0 or 2, and repeat. The
response of 0 or 2 reduces the search space, and the response of 1 splits the search space.
But then again, maybe it's actually ideal to force the responder to respond with 1’s all the time? I
believe this would have the effect of continuously splitting the search space where the
intersection of each question would narrow down what the two numbers would have to be.
I finally got around to filing the PUI form, this was yesterday. I had been denied for
unemployment benefits since I had not made enough money for the time frame they required
information. So we shall see what happens with that. Assuming I get it, it’s not much money but
considering how little we’re traveling and how we get food stamps, It should prevent us having
to use our savings.

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                    <text>April 22, 2020
Another day in quarantine. Oh well, it is what it is. The governor is doing what she can do to
help us all stay safe by extending this quarantine based on current numbers. At this point it feels
like I'm losing touch with reality and people outside. I don’t really know how to feel about that. I
can only imagine how people in true isolation must feel. There must be a lot of depression and
hatred towards the world. I’m willing to bet that there are people out there that are getting ready
to break down mentally. It’s saddening that this is a possibility. The worst part is that it’s
possible that some have already committed suicide, killed someone else, or convinced
someone else to kill. I don’t really know that this is real, but I remember hearing once, that
‘everything that you can think of is a thing’.
I understand that staying quarantined will save many lives by slowing the spread of the virus
and as a result hospitals would have plenty of space for ill patients. However, if my comment is
true, how many people are dying due to severed depression, isolation, and all those things?
Having people quarantined would save a lot of lives, I agree. However keeping people
quarantined might also leave them severely depressed. So much so that it’s possible people are
dying either through suicide, or assasination. Just last weekend there was a shooting right
outside my house. It would be unjust to say let's just proceed with life like normal so that people
that are easily depressed can get away from home because then COVID-19 spread would rise.
Likewise I don’t think it’s a good idea to just continue quarantine like there is nothing wrong. I
suppose the ideal situation would slowly reopen the world in a way that minimizes the amount of
deaths due to both covid 19, depression (and maybe even other factors?).
An argument like that however would never fly with public opinion. It is like saying some lives
don’t matter and even though we try to minimize deaths, there will still be some, and we would
be saying we are ok with that. This brings up one of the biggest topics, life. I think it’s safe to say
that most people wouldn’t want others to die from illness. If we could prevent someone from
dying from illness we should do what we can. If we can’t then we should try to find a solution, or
at least that is how most people see the situation. It is painful to lose people you love and care
about. As a result, a big part of human life is to preserve it by all means. Life is so difficult, or
maybe we make it difficult? Our society seems to believe that no one should die. However,
some believe there are too many people in the world, and others believe that it doesn't matter. If
we could cure all people from disease and injuries, the world would quickly have a large
population of humans. Maybe even to the point that the earth could no longer sustain us, then
what? Perhaps move to other habitable planets? Suppose that in each planet the population got
to a point where only natural death was the cause of death, well then these planets would not
be able to sustain the population, and an endless repetition of rehabilitating planets would
ensue. If space is infinite and there exists an infinite number of habitable planets then I suppose
this would not be an issue. But, what if there are only a finite universe and as a result a finite
number of habitable planets? Then what? I have no idea, I’m not a physicist. I don't know if the
universe is finite or infinite. I don’t know if there are a finite or infinite number of planets. I don’t
even know if humans would as a society agree and also accomplish riding the population of
disease either in the form of bacteria or virus or other. It almost seems as if dying of old age is

�the only acceptable death in our society. Dying of a virus or bacteria is highly not accepted even
if technically they are both natural causes. If Joe died of a virus and his friend Mark was ok with
this death people would jump at the chance to more or less tell Joe that he is insensitive, didn’t
care about Mark and wasn’t really his friend. So it seems that the need to save people from
death is more rooted in people’s emotional attachment to them and not so much if someone
should live or die. If COVID-19 happened in some isolated island and a large number of people
died, it’s possible that no one here or really outside of the island would care or even consider if
those people should have been saved. No one would close their economy.

�</text>
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                    <text>Tuesday
March 17, 2020
It is definitely weird to be journaling online and for a class, but here we are. A lot has
happened in the past week, and I am left jobless, not yet hurting financially but may be soon.
I’ve been dealing with the stress of online classes and the constant shutdowns well enough. I am
fortunate enough to have a paid internship which will not stop paying me, but my main source of
income is now gone as I am a host at Anna’s House and cannot be scheduled now.
I understand the necessity for all of this, but as a senior I am immensely frustrated at
having to take online courses (and having professors require synchronous classes/uploading
videos) when my wifi is fairly unreliable. It works well enough for uploading documents or
doing anything that does not require streaming, but my apartment complex had college students
do the wiring for the internet so it’s definitely not good. I had been planning on going to the
library since it was still open, but now all libraries are shut down. While I’ve seen many have
resources surrounding certain internet providers give free internet, I’m not sure I can do so with
my apartment. I also have ADD, and it’s bad when I don’t have a space outside of my apartment
to study in, or the structure of being in a classroom. I was starting to really understand my CIS
class, and now that I’m not in a classroom I fear that the understanding I had will slip and go
away.
GV did the right thing in closing, as did Governor Whitmer, but I can’t help but feel
worried for my future and when this whole thing will blow over. 45 said that it will likely last
until July, and while he is a constant liar, he is president and the likelihood of that happening is
terrifying. I was hoping the virus would be under control by the end of April, I’m not sure I’d be
able to make it financially past that. I know some places are being lenient with rent, but the loss
of income is truly scary. I had friends mention filing for unemployment, but the website is down
and has been since yesterday.
I realize that this entry is a lot of complaining, but I feel like there isn’t an ability to
complain right now. Many people feel like if you are anxious, it’s because you’re inconsiderate
of people who are at risk, and I’m not. I have many friends who are severely at risk right now,
I’m worried about family and grandparents. My dad has diabetes, and so he is also at risk. He’s a
driver for the Rapid, and for some reason they are refusing to allow drivers to wear masks so that
the public isn’t fearful. I just feel unsure of the future. I heard a rumor that people are trying to
get classes to be considered credit/no credit this semester, and honestly, I could see that being an
option. I’m considering doing so for my two classes which involve more synchronous
activity/video uploading activity since I’m not sure my wifi has the capability to do so.
On the bright side (because this has been overwhelmingly negative) my therapist offered
to provide counseling over the phone free of charge, or cancel my copay due to losing my job if I
were to come in. I’ve had two professors I am close with reach out to me to offer support, two of
whom offered to hire me on as a research assistant. I am unsure of how quickly I would be able
to work/get paid, but I hope to be able to do so soon! My mentor in charge of my senior thesis is
incredibly understanding and has been pushing me to take advantage of Replenish (although I’m
not sure if this is still open). She also sent me many texts asking me if I had essential items in the
event I were to get sick (it turns out, I don’t, because I usually do not get the flu, but I am
planning on going out to get supplies today, hopefully…).

�I have been spending a lot of time with my girlfriend, because we’re basically in selfquarantine at this point, and luckily I love my roommate, because we’ve all been together in
Allendale. I have stacks on stacks of books I’ve been meaning to read, and I utilized my
Schuler’s gift card from Christmas to buy Mary Fulbrook’s Reckonings! I’ve had my eye on it
for a while and it looks to be promising, I’ve read quite a few of her books, so I’m eager to dive
in. This book deals with a lot of the reconciliation with the Holocaust in Germany, so it’s a topic
I’m very interested in generally, the idea of memory and national identity. I am also doing okay
with food. I have a lot of chicken, pasta, ribs, beans, and rice to last a while. We’re making bok
choy and ginger chicken soup tonight for dinner. Perhaps this is the time to get a bit fancy and
experiment with new dishes?
I just keep hearing my mom’s voice reassuring me that I should only worry about what I
can control. I can’t do anything about classes being online/closing down of my job. But I can
worry about planning out meals, budgeting, and ensuring all of my assignments get done to the
best of my ability. I can be a self-advocate and communicate with those who care about me about
what I need, and try my best to have a positive outlook on everything. I can focus on my
relationships with other people, which I think is the primary thing keeping everyone sane at the
moment. I think I’ll call one of my friends later today.
Update:
Looking like no graduation for me...but on the bright side Anna’s House will be paying us for the
two weeks that we’re unable to work! I might bleach and dye my hair bright purple? Who knows
what I will do while social distancing.
Wednesday
March 18, 2020
Today I had various over the phone meetings, I filed for unemployment (which I’m sure I
messed up and don’t know what the next steps are), I did laundry, and I went grocery shopping. I
am experiencing a bit of panic today, I started off relatively calm. I woke up, did some reading of
Ozick, said goodbye to my roommate, had some meetings, and washed the dishes. But once I
went grocery shopping I started thinking about the possibility of a recession and what I’m going
to do if I don’t get into graduate school next year. Overall, I am fairly confident in my ability to
survive and keep going, but it was still scary to suddenly have a wash of panic come over me.
Thursday
March 19, 2020
I finished reading Ozick today, and I hated it. I greatly dislike anytime someone tries to
imagine themselves in oppressive environments they’ve never experienced. I once had someone
in my Dirty Wars in Latin America class say that had they been faced with death squads, they
would’ve fought before the military could have killed his children. It’s not usually a stance I’ve
seen in classes on the Holocaust, thankfully. But this book bothered me in the same way. There
is no way for us to know how we would’ve responded under those circumstances. Whether we
would have complied, resisted, or collaborated. There is just no way to know, we have hopes that
we would have resisted, that we would’ve put ourselves in harms way to protect others, the more
vulnerable. But we simply cannot know. Because of this, I find The Shawl unsettling. I do not
like the idea that we are creating fiction which claims even one experience of a survivor, of any

�sort, to feel one way. She can’t know, even if she were to research and interview survivors, she
has no way of ever truly knowing.
I created this line to differentiate from my discussion of Ozick, I’ve already written my
response paper. I went to pick up tacos, and my girlfriend Chloe and I watched a documentary on
cults. Despite being raised in one, they still fascinate me.
Friday
March 20, 2020
I woke up today feeling worse. I’ve had a cough for the past two days, but it wasn’t
concerning, it’s gotten worse, but I think it’s just a cold. I’ve been monitoring my symptoms and
I just have a cough. Nothing else, plus I’ve barely been out, and if I have it’s been with little
contact with others. I did visit my family yesterday briefly, but they’ve also been in quarantine.
My dad has a sinus infection, and so he asked me not to hug him. I stood far away from him once
he told me, and left shortly after, making sure to tell my mom to disinfect the door handles I
touched. I’m worried it’s something more, or it will turn into a more serious situation given that
he has diabetes and that puts him more at risk for the coronavirus. Hopefully he gets better. This
is giving everyone massive anxiety at the moment, and for good reason. It’s ridiculous how some
are not giving this the attention it needs. I decided to remove someone from my Facebook feed
because she kept posting things about how the coronavirus wasn’t that serious and that the media
was blowing it out of proportion to take away our rights. I just don’t understand how people
could blow this off. I was supposed to pick up my tip share today from Anna’s House and I
didn’t because I have a cough and didn’t want to risk anyone else who might be there at the same
time as me getting ill.
Aside from all the usual anxiety surrounding the coronavirus, I’ve been doing good. I’ve
gotten all the work I needed to get done, aside from my computer science class, out of the way
for the week. I also contacted my advisor to get him to send an email about taking my Spanish
class and CIS class as credit/no credit. Both classes have more requirements online (video
calling, Blackboard collaborate, programming, etc.) which I find more difficult to do given my
internet access. I’m feeling good about my level of productivity to be honest.
It’s been rough, and I’ve definitely had moments of panic thinking about an impending
recession as I graduate college, but I can’t predict the future. I can only try my best to adequately
prepare myself for what I can do. I did get accepted to present my research at the Latina/o
Studies Association at Notre Dame! With that added to my CV I will have presented at the Great
Lakes History Conference twice, the Michigan Sociological Association, and the Phi Alpha
Theta conference in San Antonio in addition to the many times I’ve presented at Student
Scholar’s Day.
At the moment I am alone, Chloe went out to meet her dad, she’s finally getting her
phone fixed. She ran it over when she returned from Tennessee because she was desperately
trying to leave her dad’s driveway at 2 a.m., her brother had hit a neighbor’s car and so there was
a lot of tension in the air. I’m relieved, for the past two weeks she hasn’t been able to use her
phone, and so she’s been hard to contact. Luckily she doesn’t have work right now, but it’s crazy
how convenient having a phone is, and what it’s like when you suddenly don’t have one. She has
group work and people were trying to form a group chat, which she can’t really do. Now that

�she’s out of the apartment, I am planning on cleaning my room and vacuuming. I am normally a
very neat person, but she’s like a tornado. She makes messes wherever she goes.
That’s all for now. I’m off to vacuum.
Tuesday
March 24, 2020
The past few days have been strange. I’m finally over my cold. My nose is slightly stuffy
but I am no longer having trouble with a sore throat and cough. Despite Governor Whitmer’s
order, my apartment complex, Trio (do not ever live there), decided to give us a brand new
roommate. I am stressed about having to continue self-quarantine for three more weeks, because
I miss being outside. The order said we could still exercise so I’m thinking of going to a nearby
park (that usually doesn’t have many people) and going for a walk and doing some reading. I am
going insane not being able to be outside, especially with seasonal depression. It’s being
prolonged. I understand, but I greatly need some exercise and fresh air.
I’ve been practicing my makeup again. Being so sick I was barely able to do anything,
and doing my makeup despite not being able to go out makes me feel prepared for the day.
Wednesday
March 25, 2020
Today was a day of deep cleaning. I spent the day doing laundry, cleaning the bathroom,
washing my makeup brushes, and spring cleaning my room. I threw out quite a bit, and I
completely reorganized everything. My desk is clear, I have all of my rocks and seashells on my
window pane, in addition to my two small cacti. I have two succulents, but I need to get a
smaller pot for one of them because it’s too large to fit comfortably on my small bookshelf. All
of my plants are doing well, it makes me quite happy.
Thursday
March 26, 2020
Journaling and planning out my weeks is the only way I am able to keep track of my
days, because it feels like everything is a bit of a blur. I’m sure I downplayed how sick I was last
week, but thinking back on it, and given how sore my nose is from blowing it, it was pretty bad. I
FaceTimed one of my friends yesterday, Laura. They attend Harvard, and so seeing their
apartment is always insane, given the amount of money the institution has. Unfortunately, the
connection wasn’t great, so it was difficult to hear them, even with me using my phone’s data. I
haven’t seen them in person since last June when we were at a summer program at the University
of Michigan together, and it’s a shame. I miss them.
MY EAR WON’T POP AND I’M IRRITATED. IT’S BEEN STUCK LIKE THIS FOR
DAYS. I HATE BEING SICK/RECOVERING FROM SICKNESS.
I just found out my unemployment claim was denied. So, that’s fucking fantastic. I’ve
been on hold to chat with a representative for the past twenty minutes which is also just amazing.

�Update: I was on hold for two hours, got off hold, asked a question, and then was disconnected. I
am extremely upset and angry.
Friday
March 27, 2020
I had a call with Dr. McKee and went over the next steps for my senior project. All seems
to be going well. I took a shower and it made my ear worsen, which is frustrating. Chloe thinks
it’s an ear infection, but I really hope not, given that there is little option to go to the doctor right
now. Not that I would normally, with how expensive it is, but especially now.
Anna’s House had a conference call today, and the update provided is slightly confusing,
but it seems like they’ll be paying us for two more weeks. So, ultimately, they have decided to
provide us with a full month’s worth of wages. I really did not expect this from them, given what
I know about other donations/business practices, but it’s really surprised me and made me
relieved to see the attitude those in management have towards their workers.
Sunday
March 29, 2020
I had a call yesterday with Dr McKee, she had mentioned nominating me for an award
based off of my senior project. While exciting, I am scared of disappointing her. I need to ensure
I write much more this upcoming week, but I also just realized I have a ton of big assignments
coming down the pipeline. I feel like I am struggling to survive with the expectations some
professors continue to have while I am unsure of when I will be able to return to work. It’s
looking to be the end of April/beginning of May at the earliest? I don’t know what I can do. I am
supposed to provide Michigan State with an answer about where I will be attending by the 15th
of April, and while I was fully expecting to reject the offer, the impending recession/depression
has me second-guessing my decision. While I want to get started on my Ph.D., if there’s a
depression coming down the pipeline, it really is in my best interest to apply and attend a
university that has a better reputation for Latin American history. MSU’s program isn’t
particularly strong outside of the African diaspora, and I want to ensure I have the proper tools to
thrive as a Mexicanist. On the other hand, it’s an ensured job/path to my future. I’m hoping I’ll
find something in the meantime, I always figure it out. Whether it’s continuing to work at Anna’s
House part-time with an additional job on the side, or finding more meaningful work, I will
survive until I get into another graduate program I can envision myself in.
Monday
March 30, 2020
I received an email today informing me that I was accepted into the Ph.D. program at
Indiana University in Bloomington! I’ll be moving there in August.
Wednesday
April 1, 2020
I’ve been spending some time trying to figure out housing in Bloomington, which is
insane and scary given that I can’t visit the city where I will be spending the next 7 or so years of
my life. I won’t be able to meet professors in person, see the library, or interrogate History Ph.D.

�students about the culture of the department. I know I have a good funding package, but I’d have
liked to be able to go down and see the apartment I’d be living in. Ride the bus to the building
I’ll be in on campus. Figure out where I’ll be going to get food and how to get there from where I
live. That’s all postponed and will be happening virtually, which I’m not a fan of.
Additionally, I feel like finishing the semester online is catching up to me. We have a few
weeks left, and final projects are coming on quickly. I’m not sure how I’ll be able to do all of this
with no ability to go to a library, meet with classmates, or have access to a printer and be able to
have physical copies of books I request from the library. Never before have I realized how reliant
I am on the library. It’s truly an incredible space, and I am lucky to be able to utilize it and have
figured out how to do interlibrary loans. I barely bought any books this semester, and now that
the end of the semester is here, it’s become very frustrating to try to get access to books the
library has physical copies of, that I cannot pick up. I’m a very tactile person, I need to be able to
physically do a lot. Highlight the copies of chapters I have, or use sticky notes to mark important
points for my papers. I miss being able to sit down in the library and spend a long evening
combing through books I’ve gathered and jotting down notes. It’s a very mundane part of
college, but it’s one of my favorites. Chloe and I love going to the library with snacks and a
small blanket and really finding a great spot to spend hours as we work on history papers
together. It’s that sense of community that I miss. As we continue living in lock down, I hope it’s
an aspect of life I can return to soon.
Friday
April 3, 2020
I spoke to a graduate student at IU over Skype today! I’m glad I did. Margarita was really
nice and easy to talk to. We have similar interests in research, and she told me about a paper
someone had done where they revealed a revelation that Emiliano Zapata had been gay! I’m
hoping that she’s able to send me this grad student’s work, because it’s immensely interesting
and I’d love to see their argument/resources. She also offered to help me look for an apartment
and gave me quite a bit of advice on life as a first year graduate student at IU. I’m planning on
sending her a few apartments I’ve checked out. I'm still unsure of whether or not I should find
roommates or live by myself for the first year. Bloomington isn’t too expensive, and is actually a
much cheaper place to live without a roommate than Grand Rapids, but it does give me anxiety
to try to do so in a city I’m unfamiliar with.
I also had the opportunity to call a scholar Dr. McKee had put me in contact with. That
was slightly awkward, but it was still really insightful. She was blunt, and I appreciated it.
Margarita was a lot more positive about IU, which is good, but I also needed to hear about
what’s going to be a challenge. I think at the forefront of what I need to consider is my mental
health and finding community. Both are aspects of life I struggle with now, and I anticipate it
continuing to be difficult, especially in a graduate program, and one which is five hours away.
It’s strange. I still need to finish out this school year but I’ve lost my motivation to do so.
I can’t find it within myself to complete the work expected of me in my internship, and while
I’ve been keeping up with all of my classes, there are definitely two that have fallen through the
cracks. I was denied unemployment, and while my job has continued to pay me, they are trying
to encourage us to deny payment and accept unemployment as it’ll provide us with more funds.
I’m seriously stressed, and the expansion of the time we will be spending in quarantine is bound

�to drive me crazy. I’m sure that part of my procrastination has to do with the fact that I have a
plan for the upcoming school year. I don’t need to worry about finding a job post-graduation
anymore, and I have a set income. A good one, definitely more than I would have gotten through
MSU. It’s like I’m dedicating my time and resources to what I can control, which is planning for
a future outside of COVID-19.
Tomorrow I have the opportunity to call another graduate student, which will be exciting.
For now, I’m off to work on homework and final projects...
Saturday
April 4, 2020
Today I brought my dad lunch, he is still driving for the Rapid and was in Allendale
doing the 50/85 route. He’s upset he hasn’t been laid off, primarily because he’s highly fearful of
getting the virus. It's understandable, my mom is highly cautious at the moment, Chloe and I
went shopping with her the other day, because she has a Sam’s Club card. Chloe’s laptop broke
down and it was one of the only places we were able to go to get a new one. When we met in the
parking lot, she brought out hand sanitizer for us to use, gave us gloves and masks, and only then
she hugged me hello. I’m glad I saw my dad...moving to Bloomington has riddled me with
anxiety and I’m super scared to have to do so. I’ve been riddled with anxiety, but it was nice to
see him for a bit. He rattled off a list of things we need to replace in my car before I move in
August.
Sunday
April 5, 2020
Oy. I’ve been apartment hunting today as well. It seems like the more I research the more
I’m scared I won’t find a place. There are so many complexes and landlords which people are
warning me against on the internet, which is spooky, as they’re usually the ones I was strongly
considering until people retell their horror stories. I was planning on getting roommates in order
to counter costs, but quite a few people have ghosted me, and now I’m unsure of whether or not
I’d be able to find anyone to live with. The problem is, I’m sure others would be more open to
helping me out if I’d had the opportunity to go visit the program in person.
Monday
April 6, 2020
I just finished speaking to Isabel on the phone, and she was so insanely nice. I was blown
away by her personality, and her frankness. It was really refreshing to have someone tell me
straight out who I should be more wary of.
Overall the day was good, my internet keeps cutting out though, which was annoying.
I’m trying to do homework, work, and just attempting to prepare for my move. Skyping and
chatting with people is getting to be really hard, especially since it’ll freeze after about an hour
and makes it nearly impossible to continue.
Wednesday
April 8, 2020

�I had the opportunity to speak to Dr. Krista Benson today, which was very helpful. They
raised quite a bit of important points which I should be considering when speaking to Dr.
Guardino in regards to graduate school and the department. Specifically, whether or not my
stipend is pre or post tax, if I am expected to use all of my research summer funding in archives
in Mexico, or would I be able to utilize it for conferences. What conference funding looks like,
how many students finish in five years, and what funding is available for those who are past year
five. Additionally, they wanted me to inquire about whether teaching appointments are 50
percent, and if so whether or not we can take a higher percentage in order to earn more. I also
have to ask how those positions are assigned.
After speaking with Dr. Benson, I spoke to Casey through Zoom, and miraculously the
internet did not cut out after an hour (it cut out two times while I was chatting with Dr. Benson).
He was insanely nice and easy to talk to. I really appreciated how welcoming he was, how
excited he was about me joining and about the department in general. He gave me a lot of good
advice, and he also offered to go check out apartments for me and reach out to graduate students
who may be looking for roommates. Every time I speak to a grad student at IU I find myself
really excited to attend. I did not anticipate that I’d be so thrilled about the environment I’d be in,
but the prospect of being in Bloomington is promising, although daunting.
I’m scared, but I’m also excited to be in an environment where everyone is as passionate
about history as I am. I can’t wait to be surrounded by intellectual conversations about
neoliberalism, colonialism, and gender and sexuality all situated within a Latin American history
context. I’m worried about being apart from Chloe, but am confident that we can do this.
Thursday
April 9, 2020
I had my first anxiety attack of the quarantine yet, it’s been almost a month, and it’s
getting to me. I hate being at home, and feeling bombarded by work, but with no motivation to
do it all. It’s difficult for me to have a separation between relaxation and work. I don’t know how
to do it. Usually when I need to get things done, I spend a day at a coffee shop, or at the library,
and I get things done! I feel like I’m going back and forth on productivity, one day I’m super
productive, I get the work I need to get done finished, and I feel great, and then the next I feel
lethargic, anxious, and I do work, I research IU and try to gather information, talk to potential
roommates, etc. But I’m not getting vital things for my coursework or work done!
I can work from home, but not all the time! Things are falling through the cracks, really
falling. It’s bad. I feel like I’m letting people down and I hate to do that. I just want to be able to
go outside and not feel scared about it. I want to be able to go to a bookstore and browse the
shelves! I want to be able to go to the park, and not care if someone gets near me. I miss human
connection! I even want to go to work, and I hate going to work most of the time! I just hate
being cooped up, I want to go to a movie theater, to go on dates. I want to be able to hang out
with my friends. As of right now the governor has extended it to May 1st, and I really hope it
ends there. I need to make money, I need to save for my move. I was denied unemployment,
we’re waiting on those checks from the government but I don’t even know for sure that I’m
getting one! I feel like the world is falling apart and I am here trying my best to stand my ground.
It’s scaring me.

�Growing up, I was a Jehovah’s Witness. We were constantly told stories about the end of
the world, Armageddon. If we weren’t good enough, we wouldn’t make it to an eternal paradise.
We would die, alongside the rest of the non-Jehovah’s Witnesses. I had nightmares about it. Me,
a little girl (at the time) who felt out of place as a girl, and who didn’t know that I was queer. For
reference, these were the images I grew up seeing in my “Book of Bible Stories” and other JW
publications:

Jehovah’s Witnesses everywhere are convinced that the world is currently coming to an end, that
this is the “beginning of the system of things.” While I no longer am part of the religion, I
realized today that I am reliving the trauma of having grown up with these beliefs. I started to
have trouble breathing as I cried, and I found myself asking Chloe if this was the end. It’s an
inherent feeling that I am being punished, which is, of course, absurd. This cannot be happening
only to me, and it's not happening because I have sinned against god. But yet I’ve been
programmed to think so. In times like these, where I find myself reverting back to old ways of
thinking, I have to tell myself that everyone is going through this right now. Everyone is
struggling. There is not one person who is (not absurdly rich) that is thriving under these
circumstances. And while bleak, it helps. No other time in history (that I know of, and I’m a
history major) has the entire world stood still and ordered everyone to stay home.
It’s a crazy thing to be living through, and I’m not sure why, but that brings me some
level of comfort. Undoubtedly, this will be a well studied time period in the future by historians.
They will look back and study how people dealt with the quarantine. Someone on twitter made a
joke about how in a few years we’re going to be seeing articles on “queering the quarantine:
towards radical forms of queer isolation,” (I can’t find the original tweet otherwise I’d include it
here, but someone did already go ahead and make a spotify playlist named this. Can be found
here). In that I take comfort, that I am taking part, however passively, in history.
Friday
April 10, 2020

�Another day where my main thing to look forward to was a meeting. I had a meeting with
Dr. McKee to discuss some slight revisions on my senior thesis. Nothing too major, it was
primarily focused on me providing more detail in my earlier sections. In the interest of giving
some insight into what my senior thesis is, I will provide some context for what it is I’m working
on. I am essentially discussing Guatemalan adoption to families in the United States, but I’m also
taking into account how Guatemala came to be such a big sending nation to the U.S. in terms of
children. Guatemala has a long-standing history of U.S. intervention into economic interests in
the nation, namely with the United Fruit Company which owned a large portion of land in the
nation and controlled a lot of governmental decisions undertaken. What resulted was an
impoverished and exploited indigenous population. U.S. overthrowal of a democratically elected
president, who prioritized Guatemalan economic interests led to a series of strongmen being in
power, and a thirty year civil war ensued. In the midst of this civil war, children were being
taken from families considered subversive, and once the country’s civil war “ended” children
began to be trafficked into adoption agencies who would send them to the United States. Now
this ended in 2008, when Guatemala gained international attention for the horrendous practices at
play, but with separations at the border which began to take place, Americans who desired to
adopt children easily had a newfound access point.
I am so excited to be working on this project, I find it invigorating academically, and it
fills me with anger and yet curiosity to understand the operations at play. A lot of my edits have
to do with ensuring I am engaging properly with a lot of adoption scholars, as Dr. McKee knows
of who I should be engaging with, and finding access to them, as well as time to read all of it.
She wants to turn it into an article, which I am excited about, and hope to do, as I’m sure it will
make me far more marketable and competitive for funding once I am at IU.
I also spoke to Dr. Guardino today, which was great. I am once again excited beyond
belief to join the history department at Indiana University. He was excellent in explaining the
town and (lack of) diversity in the area. He really reassured me that there are ample opportunities
past the fifth year to continue getting funding, it would just be without my fellowship. I did have
some questions he wasn’t able to answer, mainly about taxes, but overall it was instrumental to
understanding how I will be able to build a relationship with him as my advisor. He discussed
individuals leaving the program as a positive thing, saying that he didn’t like to say people
“dropped out” because it wasn’t negative, they had found their path. I’m sure it’s definitely
going to be very tough, the first year always is, according to everyone I’ve spoken to, but the
prospect of a new beginning is enthralling.
Saturday
April 11, 2020
I found a potential roommate! Her name is Sarah and she lives at Sassafras Hill
Apartments, I’m excited, she seemed really nice and we set up a time to Zoom, which was
intensely awkward but good. It’d be a financial relief for sure to room with someone else, but it
does give me anxiety to go in somewhat blind in terms of apartments and roommates. What
excites me about the possibility of living with Sarah is that she’s a four year grad student and has
been living in Bloomington much longer than I have. But at the same time, Chloe is planning on
moving to Bloomington after her graduation a year from now, and I’d like for us to be reunited
as soon as possible, especially after living in different states for 9 months and I wouldn’t want
anyone to feel it sprung upon them, that I would like to live with my partner while they were

�expecting me to stick around.
Today was a day of ups and downs for sure. While I felt relieved about finding a potential
roommate, I also have to do a group project for my Soviet History class and had to deal with a
very hostile groupmate. I had tried setting up a method of communication which would be
effective for everyone (group chat) and it was denied, and then I tried providing suggestions for
the project and one guy in particular, who had sent me an annoyed email about the group chat,
also emailed me a very rude email about how he didn’t want to do my idea because it wasn’t
convenient for him. Finishing the email with, “please let me know when you receive this email
as I have things I need to do.” The entire language of the email caused me to cry out of
frustration, I’m obviously not going to include the email, but it was intensely rude and hostile. I
ended up emailing my professor to ask to complete the assignment alone, and luckily it was
granted. I really don’t need the stress of trying to find a place to live in another state, filing for
unemployment, applying for jobs, and dealing with an egotistical group member.
Sunday
April 12, 2020
Chlo and I have begun watching a bit of Naked and Afraid, one of her dad’s students, a
GVSU alum (!), was on the show and so we watched the season he was on. It was definitely
interesting to be able to share this show with her, it’s one my family would sit around and watch
together. It’s really interesting to watch, given that they’re such dangerous situations and you get
to see real depictions of how people react to dehydration, extreme fatigue, and finding food in
the wild. I’ve done a lot of sharing different shows I grew up watching with her, in addition to
showing her iconic movies she never saw growing up.
Well, as wholesome as watching fun shows with my girlfriend is, I am going to rant
about what just happened to me at Meijer. Chloe and I were leaving Meijer, having stocked up
on a good amount of groceries for the upcoming two-ish weeks and gotten Starbucks, when the
alarm at the door went off. Now, I always say hello to the Meijer greeters, so I had said hello to
her when I walked in, and we had done the self-checkout near her, as well as gotten the
Starbucks near her. She had seen us pay, I know she had because we had made eye contact. At
Starbucks, I threw away my receipt. I explained this to her when I was leaving, and she made me
go back and get my receipt out of the garbage. She didn’t ask Chloe, my white girlfriend, for her
receipt, she didn’t even look at her when the beeping started, she looked at me and told me to go
get it out of the trash. I did, I wish I hadn’t, I wish I had spoken to the woman working who had
helped me at the self check out to prove I had bought it, or pulled up my bank info or something,
but I dug through the trash and got my receipt.
When Chlo and I got to the car I broke down crying. People have been showing how they
really feel about people of color a lot of more nowadays, whether they realize it or not. Older
white people have been rude to me in the aisles, gotten way too close and shoved me, I’ve gotten
more dirty looks than ever while shopping with Chloe. We’re taking precautions, keeping our
distance, yet I am being treated in a worse way than I normally experience. So I had an anxiety
attack, I’ve had more anxiety attacks in my time at home than I have had in the past year. I’m
sick of all of this.

�Monday
April 13, 2020
I had a Zoom call with a student in the Gender Studies department, and that was so
awkward. It was honestly kind of awful, Margarita introduced me to him through email, and so I
figured I’d give him a call. He didn’t know why I was calling and I didn’t know what to discuss
since he was a very quiet person. I did ask some basic questions about queer identity and
Bloomington in general, which provided a lot of interesting information around parking in the
area. I definitely will be more careful with who I contact in the future, since it was pretty painful
to have the video call quite honestly.
Tuesday
April 14, 2020
Chloe and I went to Grand Haven today and found a spot on the beach to sit and enjoy
the waves. They were huge, and I love having the opportunity to sit in nature. We made sure to
sit at a distance from anyone else, there were mainly people parked sitting in cars staring at the
waves. It was pretty cold but there were some people surfing on the waves, and it was so fun to
watch. I’m not sure why, but I find myself mesmerized whenever I am in nature. It’s like it
revives me. It could be me sitting outside on a lawn, feeling the grass between my fingers, in a
forest, looking at the sun peaking through the treetops, or just watching the waves and thinking
about how incredible and dangerous the water can be. Whenever I’m having a bad day I like to
go for walks or just sit outside, so it was so nice to feel the wind on my face and be able to sit in
the sand.
I just feel revived. I’m so happy.
Wednesday
April 15, 2020
I received my stimulus check from the government today and paid off my Discover credit
card! There goes over 1,100 of debt! I am so extremely happy and proud of myself to have paid
off so much debt this year. This year thus far I have completely cleared 2,000 in debt that I had
accrued from: getting kicked out when I came out, getting surgery, getting glasses, and medical
expenses for my dog. I still have to pay off my laptop, but I’m hoping that’ll be something I can
try to clear up as much as possible this summer and next. Being in debt and racked by monthly
payments is a feeling I wouldn’t wish on anyone, it’s nerve wracking and anxiety inducing to not
know if you’ll be able to make the monthly payments, and feeling like it’s a never-ending task to
pay them off. I had also used my tax return to pay off one of the accounts completely, I’m just
really proud of myself for the financial decisions I made this year so far. I was so excited to get
out from under debt and to improve myself, and while this pandemic has set me back I’m still
hopeful I’ll get there someday.
Saturday
April 18, 2020
We went to the park today! There’s a park out here in Allendale where Chloe and I took
our dinner and sat on a bench and just enjoyed the sun setting. In the middle of us sitting and
eating a group of girls pulled up in two different vehicles. There was a bathroom nearby so it was

�somewhat blocking our view of what was happening but we could see two big groups of girls
trying to swing at each other and screaming. One called the other girl the n-word (all were
white), and after about five minutes both groups got into their cars and left.
It was so strange, and irritating because they presumably don’t all live together and are
clearly breaking social distancing but it was definitely a spicy occurence in an overall chill and
slightly dull day.
Tuesday
April 21, 2020
I bit the bullet and signed a lease today. There goes $775 of my savings. I applied for the
unemployment pandemic thing but who knows if I’ll get anything, there’s a group on Facebook
filled with people who haven’t gotten any money despite being approved and those who’ve been
denied and have been on the phone everyday for hours on end for weeks trying to make sense of
it all. I’m anxious because the rent is so high and that means that I’ll owe $675 on the first of
August in Bloomington without actually needing to be there until the 24th but hopefully it’ll be
okay. My plan is to work two jobs this summer before August so that I can afford the move and
save some money before the stipend kicks in. This is all intensely stressful and it’s also exam
week so...that’s great. I did start applying to jobs this weekend and got a call back from Biggby
and scheduled a job interview for Saturday.
Wednesday
April 22, 2020
I was approved for the pandemic assistance! I hope I actually get it, oh my god. I am so
happy. I also had emailed Dr. Guardino and asked about when I would receive my stipend and he
offered to loan me the money for the apartment so that I am able to secure my first month in
Bloomington! I am so intensely happy and thankful.
If I’m able to secure the assistance (and actually receive it) I won’t have to borrow money
from him and my first month will be covered. I’m not sure that will happen given how much
trouble everyone else has had but hopefully I’m all set once I certify. I’ve never looked down on
anyone who had to file for unemployment, but I truly did not realize just how awful it is, the
system is ridiculous and impossible to navigate. I didn’t even receive an email notifying me that
I had been approved, I had to check today and even then, when I login, it doesn’t say I’ve been
approved. I had to go to a completely different part of the site to see it. All that has been proved
to me over and over again throughout this pandemic is that our country is broken. People are not
willing to listen to our governor, who is trying to save their lives, and are willing to put
themselves and others at jeopardy to protest when they are the same people who will argue for
violence against black and brown people who protest police brutality. Once again the nation is
bailing out big businesses while they are failing those who are most vulnerable. These are all
things I already knew, but to see them highlighted on a massive scale finally feels like most
individuals who were content to sit back and watch are having a realization of the devastation
which is caused.
But, per usual, nothing will happen. Come November I will be forced to vote for Joe
Biden, who is not a progressive in any way, and who has had allegations of sexual misconduct

�against him, in order to get Trump out of office. All that has been highlighted is my utter disgust
of the current administration, something I had tried to engage with at a bare minimum, enough to
be engaged but not enough to give me an aneurysm on a daily basis. I am just disheartened, it
makes me want to not vote, it won’t accomplish anything, my not voting, but it just disgusts me
to have to vote for Joe Biden. I’m not confident in his ability to win, nor in who he is. What has
happened is this: this pandemic has forced me to sit and think. I have nothing but time to think
about my life, what is important to me, my values, my goals for my life, what has happened to
me to shape the person I am today. I have come to many conclusions.
1. I do not want to live a life where I am constantly worried about money and where one
small instance can cripple me. (I guess I really shouldn’t have chosen to go into the
humanities but…)
2. I want to use my life to benefit those who are less fortunate than I am. Despite not having
an easy upbringing, I can recognize that if it weren’t for quite a few mentors in my life, I
wouldn’t have gotten as far as I did. The myth of meritocracy is alive and well but I do
not believe in it.
3. Activism is vital. I want to figure out how to support it and be involved while
maintaining my mental health.
4. I value people. I did not realize just how hurt I would be to be restricted from human
connection, and to see so many suffering. I broke down crying at the protests because of
the complete disregard for the safety of others. I would like to find a way to use my love
of people to make a difference.
Thursday
April 23, 2020
I certified for my week's unemployment, but am super scared I’ll end up messing up or
accidentally doing something wrong because I don’t understand the system. I just have massive
anxiety that I'll accidentally perjure myself somehow. I was actually super productive this week,
which was nice. I got a lot of work for Cook Leadership Academy done!
Update: I just realized my last date of employment was the 18th although I stopped
working on the 11th, and I already forfeited my potential earnings, so I won’t be in danger of
perjuring myself (or shouldn’t be, I’m still scared). Hopefully I’ll get the earnings in time?
Friday
April 24, 2020
I graduated? I submitted my final exams but it just didn’t feel monumental. I’m the first
person in my family to have gone to university, and while I wasn’t sure about whether I was
going to walk, I still wanted to have the option to do so. I’m unsure of whether or not I’ll be
attending the makeup graduation in October since I’ll already be in graduate school in
Bloomington. It just feels fruitless to do so, especially when I have another graduation so far
down the line, and a far more important one. I’m hoping to catch up on some reading and relax.
Probably try to do some more networking with people in Bloomington, read some articles from
the faculty I’d like to work with, and relax. Get back into some hobbies like painting, journaling,
and making crafts.

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                    <text>Young Lords
In Lincoln Park
Interviewee: Laura Garcia
Interviewers: Jose “Cha Cha” Jimenez
Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections
Date: 8/25/2012

Biography and Description
Laura Garcia was raised in an immigrant farmworker family. She was a member of MECha, the
Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán, in the struggle to build the United Farmworkers
Union, and joined the Teatro de las Chicanas, a theatre troupe started by Felicitas Nuñez and
Delia Ravelo, in the 1970s. She recently co-edited, with Sandra M. Gutierrez and Ms. Nuñez a
collection of memoirs by members of Teatro Chicanas called Teatro Chicana (2008). Their most
recent play is “Madres por Justicia,” which was first performed at the MALCS Conference in Los
Angeles, August 2011. Ms. Garcia’s work as a journalist has gained international acclaim. She
has reported on poverty and women’s conferences and electoral campaigns in Mexico, China,
Brazil, the Dominican Republic, and the United States, among others. She currently edits the
Tribuno del Pueblo, a bilingual newspaper that is distributed to readers across the United
States. The paper focuses on giving voice to the poor and on a range of immigrants’s issues. A
strong advocate for women’s rights, Ms. Garcia has also authored a bilingual pamphlet, “Who is
Killing the Women of Juárez?” It raises awareness about the disappearances and murders of
hundreds of women in Mexico’s Ciudad Juárez which is just across the Rio Grande River, from El
Paso, Texas and is home to a number of American drug manufacturers. She reports on the

�failure of Mexican and U.S. authorities to investigate the crimes and stop the killings. In 2004,
Ms. Garcia was part of a delegation which visited Ciudad Juárez to report on the crisis.

�Transcript

JOSE JIMENEZ:

So, if you can give me your full name, your date of birth, when you

were born, and where you were born.
LAURA GARCIA:

Okay. My name is Laura [Elena Cortez?] Garcia. And I was born in

Mexico -- I’m from Mazatlán, Sinaloa -- in the year 1953. But my family -- I’m
talking about the whole family. They have been in the United States since the
1920s. But like every Mexican family, we go back and forth between the United
States and Mexico. So, I would say half of my family were born here and half of
my family was born in Mexico. My mother happened to be born in Yuma, Arizona
in the 1920s. And then, they were deported, you know, the great repatriation that
they call it when the -JJ:

Even though she was born --

LG:

Yeah, because her parents were undocumented. [00:01:00] So, the parents were
undocumented but the children were U.S. citizens. But at that time, there was a
witchhunt to get rid of all the communists and all the labor unions and also
because the economic crisis, the Great Depression and so forth, they deported
the family even though the kids were U.S. citizens. It’s similar to what’s
happening today where the children are U.S. citizens but the parents are not.
And then, you have the option of leaving the children alone in this country or
taking them with you to Mexico or to whatever country they are. So, that
happened to my parents. And then, my -- we were very poor. Agricultural people
working the land. And so, after my mother [00:02:00] separated from my

1

�husband [sic] and after I was born and my sister was born, she came back to the
U.S. in the 1950s. And she ended up in Brawley, which happens to be were
Felicitas is. And Brawley is an agricultural town in southern California. And
there, my mother was a housemaid for about 13, 14 years. And eventually she
was able to bring my sister and myself to the U.S. in the 1960s. But it took her
about 11, 12 years to save enough money and to fix the papers even though
when she started fixing the papers there was nothing to fix because her being a
U.S. citizen, we automatically get the U.S. citizenship. So, had she known that
then, she [00:03:00] probably would have brought us sooner. I lived in -JJ:

What was your mom’s name?

LG:

My mother’s name is [Marrubio?]. But she lived in this house, and it easier to say
[Nelly?] than Marrubio. So, her name was changed to Nelly, officially too. My
mother, up until the day she side, she signed with Nelly, even though her name
was Marrubio.

JJ:

And your dad? What was his name?

LG:

My dad’s name is --

JJ:

Did you call him dad?

LG:

Yeah no, my dad’s -- I don’t call him dad.

JJ:

Okay. What do you call him?

LG:

He’s my -- my paternal family comes from China, and they migrated in about
1980s. There was a great famine in China. And my grandfather migrated. He
was a kid. He was about 15, 16 years old. And everyone was coming to the
Americas. It didn’t matter -- [00:04:00] not everybody ended up in San

2

�Francisco. My grandfather ended up in Baja, California and worked in Santa
Rosalia in the copper mines. But eventually he crossed the Sea of Cortez into
Sonora and then eventually -JJ:

What was his name? Do you know?

LG:

My Chinese name is [Lian?].

JJ:

And your father’s name was -- what?

LG:

My father’s name is [Raul Leon?] because he Mexicanized his name. So, the
last name is Lian, and then, Leon as closest as far as the Spanish. So, his name
is Raul Leon. But I --

JJ:

What type of work was he doing?

LG:

I think he did a lot of number of jobs. He worked in Sonora in the railroads,
building the railroads.

JJ:

Oh, so, he’s in Mexico.

LG:

In Mexico. He never came to the U.S. He was born in Mexico. And he
[00:05:00] -- that’s where he died. But he worked in the railroad. What he told
me is that he was the leader of the communist unit. And because of the political
work that he was doing, he was blackballed and he wasn’t able to get any more.
And he was fired. So, he was practically ran out of the town and the state of
Sonora. And Sinaloa is south of Sonora. So, he ended up in Sinaloa. But in
Sinaloa, he was a tailor by profession. In fact, that’s how my mother and he met.
My mother started working with him because my mother was 23 years old. And
she was an old maid. So, she could no longer stay with her parents because she
had to survive, make her own living. So, she -- from the time until she went to

3

�that town and found work -- and she found [00:06:00] work with my father, and
then, it all became. I’m a flower child or a love child.
JJ:

And were there any other children?

LG:

He had five others from another woman, I guess, wife. And he had two with my
mother.

JJ:

Do you know their names?

LG:

No. I never wanted to find out.

JJ:

What about the ones that he had with your mom?

LG:

Oh, yeah. My sister. It’s only two. (Spanish) [00:06:31]

JJ:

(Spanish) [00:06:33]

LG:

(Spanish) [00:06:35] She looks more Chinese than me. But that’s our feud, our
fight. Carmen says I look more Chinese. And I say, “No, you look more
Chinese.” Being Chinese in Mexico was not a very popular thing or whatever.
There was a lot of prejudism [sic] against the Chinese [00:07:00] in Mexico. And
so, we grew up, I guess, used to but not liking it, the fact that we were different
than other people. And it was always pointed out, no matter -- when we went to
the mercado or we went to -- wherever we were with my grandfather. It always
happened that someone stopped us or stopped him and asked him, “Oh, what
are they? Chinitas or japonesas?” And my grandfather, being such a Mexican
nationalist, he would always say, “Son Mexicanas. Don’t forget that. Son
Mexicanas.” Of course, Carmen and I would say, “Why does he get so mad? Of
course we’re Mexican. What else can we be?” We actually didn’t know that my
father was Chinese until much later because people kept asking us and we

4

�started asking. And then, my mother told us, “Yeah, [00:08:00] your father is half
Chinese, half Mexican.”
JJ:

Is this after you grew up?

LG:

Yeah. My mother and him didn’t separate on very good terms. So, I did not see - my mother has never -- my mother came to the U.S. and she never went back
to her hometown in Mexico. And she never wanted to. I think her memories are
not very good, for whatever reason. I don’t know if it’s the relationship with my
father or whatever. But she never went back. But she remarried. And after my
stepfather died -- his name is [Salome?]. He’s from Durango. After my -- the
best, the greatest person I’ve ever met in my life. He was the kindest --

JJ:

Your stepfather?

LG:

Yeah, my stepfather. He was just an outstanding human being. So, after he
passed away, that’s when my sister and I decided to go back to Mexico and hook
up with my father and find out more of our history because we didn’t know
[00:09:00] where we were -- I mean, one side of us, we knew where we were,
Mexican side. But the Chinese side, we didn’t have any idea. So, after my
stepfather passed away, then we went back and looked for -- well, we didn’t look
for him. We knew where he was. And we had a little short meeting. And he told
us.

JJ:

What did you find out?

LG:

That he was a motherfucker. (laughter) I’m sorry. You can erase it. No, he -- no,
I shouldn’t say that. I think he was a man of his times. And in Mexico, you
always have a casa grande and a casa chica. Casa grande is where you have

5

�your marriage, your legal family, you know, your children and your legitimate
children. Casa chica is where you have your other woman and the children,
illegitimate children. I happen to be from [00:10:00] casa chica. So, when I
asked my father why -JJ:

We called her coteja.

LG:

Pardon me?

JJ:

Did he have a coteja, another woman on the side that you have to raise.

LG:

Yes.

JJ:

Yeah, they still take care of her but --

LG:

Yeah. And they --

JJ:

And that doesn’t exist as much now. But used to exist there.

LG:

And the --

JJ:

So, what do you call it there?

LG:

Casa chica. And the rule is that if a man has enough money, he could have as
many casa chicas as he wants to because he can provide for them. So, I know I
was one of the casa chicas. I don’t know if he had other casa chicas. So, my
mother was advised but her godmother that, especially after we were born, it was
best for her to leave. It wasn’t so much for her [00:11:00] but it was for Carmen
and I because we really did not have any future in my town. It was very small.
And either we were either going to be always (Spanish) [00:11:11], illegitimate
children and we’re always going to be singled out, pointed at, and so forth. So,
she didn’t think there was much future for us if we stayed in Mexico. So, that’s
why my mother left. And because my mother left -- he was about 27 years old. It

6

�took a lot of courage for her to do that. But when my mother left, my father was
mad. He got very upset because -- I asked him, “Why have a casa chica? Why
have a casa grande.” He says, “Because I had the money.” So, that shut me up.
And then, I said, “Well, after my mother left, why didn’t you look for us or take
care of us and provide for us,” not that we needed it or anything. But we certainly
needed, I think, [00:12:00] his affection. He said, “Because once your mother
left, I had no responsibility whatsoever towards you, towards her or the children
because she had everything here. I had a house for her. You guys were well
taken care of.” So, that’s what he said. So, that’s why I say -- I didn’t want to say
he was an MF. But it was just he was a man of his times.
JJ:

So, a man of his time -- you meant -- so, he was disowning you because --

LG:

Disowning us, yeah.

JJ:

Your mom left.

LG:

So, once my mother left --

JJ:

And he thought he was correct in what he was doing.

LG:

Oh, yeah.

JJ:

He was a man of his times.

LG:

That was the surprise and astonishment that when I’m asking him questions, he’s
(Spanish) [00:12:53], you know, straight and not ashamed or anything. It was
like he was just telling things as a matter of fact. That’s the way things [00:13:00]
-- in fact, he did tell me, “Oh, this is the way things are in Mexico.” So, I
happened to find out later that it was not just in Mexico but in almost all -- every
country, many places. But anyway, coming back to the United States, we -- I had

7

�the opportunity when I -- one of the things that happens when you immigrate her
and you start -- want to go to school is at that time -- they don’t do it anymore.
But the school system -- they put you three or four years behind because you
don’t know the language. So, I was supposed to be in sixth grade, and they put
me back in third grade. So, that was like three years behind. And so, as I went
through school, I started realizing [00:14:00] when I went into my high school, my
freshman year, that I was going to graduate when I was 20 years old. And the
thought of being that old -- and also, I was 11 years old. I had my period. And
there I was with kids that were seven years old or eight years old. And it was
embarrassing, the whole experience and very humiliating to be able to go to
school at that age.
JJ:

What school was this?

LG:

Brawley. And what was the name of the school? [Ruth?]?

FELICITAS NUÑEZ:(inaudible)
LG:

No, I went to Ruth -- (Spanish) [00:14:43] I can’t remember. But it was in the
borderline of the Mexican side and the other side, the white side or [dónde vivían
los rancheros]. And that’s because of the kind of work my mother did. She
cleaned houses.

JJ:

Are you talking about the country of Mexico?

LG:

No, I’m talking about Brawley, the town [00:15:00] of Brawley here in the United
States.

JJ:

Okay. So, there was a dividing line in Brawley?

LG:

Yeah.

8

�JJ:

So, it was segregated.

LG:

Yeah. It wasn’t legal segregation. But there was a Mexican side of town and
then there was the other side.

JJ:

A white side. Okay. So, like (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

LG:

And it was because of the line of work that my mother did too that we lived kind
of in the border, in the edge of both.

JJ:

Because she was not in the fields.

LG:

She was cleaning. Yeah. She wasn’t working in the fields. Mostly everyone that
lived in the Mexican side of town worked in the fields, did agricultural work. My
mother was cleaning houses. So, she was closer to the houses that she was
cleaning or to that señoras so that we happened to go to that school. But
anyway, just the other thing -- and it’s just -- they really don’t want you to speak
Spanish or they didn’t. You had to speak English.

JJ:

In Brawley?

LG:

Yeah. Well, that [00:16:00] was in any school in that time. You were punished
when you spoke Spanish. And I happened to be punished. One time I couldn’t
play one recess because they overheard me speak Spanish.

JJ:

You couldn’t play what?

LG:

I couldn’t go and play during recess because they overheard me speak Spanish.
So, the teacher punished me. They told me to stand by a tree while other kids
were playing. But I have to tell you that I had a great teacher. My third-grade
teacher was the first teacher here in the U.S. And her name is [Mrs. Satin?].
And she was so kind and a real teacher in the sense of she knew that I didn’t

9

�speak Spanish. I think I was the only one in the classroom. But she made sure
that everything -- I would understand everything that was going on. She had an - there was [00:17:00] a classmate. Her name was [Lourdes?]. And she was my
translator, my interpreter. And she would -- after she would explain what we have
to do, then Mrs. Satin says, “You come to where my desk is and then Lourdes will
come to me.” And then, she would explain to me what the lesson was and so
forth. So, she was really, really good. I mean, I think because of that experience
-JJ:

And you said you didn’t speaking. What did you mean --

LG:

I mean, I didn’t speak English. I’m sorry. I didn’t speak English. But because of
the experience that I had with Mrs. Satin, I think that’s why I loved school. I
mean, was a very good student with very high grades. Anyway, then I -- at 17,
that was my freshman year, I decided --

JJ:

Freshman year where?

LG:

High school, Brawley --

FN:

Union High School.

LG:

Brawley Union High School. We all went to the same high school. Different
years. [00:18:00] I decided I couldn’t wait to graduate until I was 20 years old.
So, there was a program that I found out. It was a high school equivalency
program. And it was a program for high school dropouts that work in the field, in
the campo, for children of the farm workers in California. And so, the program
was in San Diego State. And so, I applied for it.

JJ:

This is before you left school? You were already thinking of dropping out?

10

�LG:

I was already of thinking of dropping out.

JJ:

But you had a plan.

LG:

And I was still in school. In fact, I left on a Sunday, and my last day in school was
Friday. But I was already thinking that I was going to drop out anyway. But I
wasn’t going to drop out into nothing. I was going to continue with my education.
And that was the only reason I could leave the house at 17 because I was going
somewhere. [00:19:00] So, my mother -- there was problems about me leaving,
not so bad, but my mother wanted me to go. She thought that I should continue
my education. She felt that she didn’t want us to end up cleaning toilets like she
did. I mean, it’s an honorable job. But she aspired for us to do more. I mean,
that’s the reason she was here in the United States. So, she really was backing
me up to go. My stepfather was not. He was very scared. He was very scared
because I was 17. To him, I was very naïve. He had a (Spanish) [00:19:46] kind
of -- didn’t know where things were. And so, it was 1969, and it was the -- the
schools were up in arms in the campuses. There was the Black Panthers on TV.
[00:20:00] There was the peace movement against the Vietnam War. And the
country wasn’t that stable for him to send his daughter to college away even
though it was only like 90 miles from Brawley.

JJ:

But did he mention this or you’re just recollecting?

LG:

Yeah.

JJ:

But he specifically mentioned Black Panthers and all those -

LG:

My stepfather was an atheist and also --

JJ:

What’s his name? Did we get his name?

11

�LG:

[Salome Coral?]. He was an atheist. And also, he -- I found out later -- oh, one
time when I came from school, he were doing a report on the Soviet Union. And
he always checked our work and discussed our homework with us which was
very strange [00:21:00] for that time too because -- that’s why I’m saying he was
a wonderful man. So, I had written this whole report about the Soviet Union, how
awful it was because there was no democracy and how great the United States
was and I loved it and this and that. And he said, “Well, how do you know that
they don’t have democracy in the Soviet Union?” And I go, “My teacher told me.
It’s in the books.” And he says, “You read one book and you heard one person
say that. And you’re just going to believe them?” And I go, “Well, why not? It’s
my teacher.” And he says, “No, you have to ask, you have to think, you have to
read. And then, you make your opinion.” And I was saying, “Are you a
communist or what?” And he said, “No, but I want you to be a thinker and not
just take for granted what people are saying as the truth.” And he says, “Find out
for yourself.” And I think that was the best [00:22:00] advice he gave me. Find
out. Don’t just swallow all the stuff (inaudible) and just do whatever.

JJ:

So, he was familiar with all these schools?

LG:

So, he was -- yeah, we watched the -- if there was something I didn’t like about
my stepfather it was that he watched the news. He watched the five o’clock
news, the seven o’clock news, and the ten o’clock news. No matter what
programs there were, whatever, we had -- and he made us watch the news. And
I would get so mad at him because I would tell him, “It’s the same news. What
they said at five o’clock, it’s the same thing they’re saying at seven, and it’s the

12

�same thing they’re saying at 10.” Of course there was no Internet, no nothing.
Right? So, it was the same news. And he kept saying, “Things might change in
a couple of hours. You don’t know. You have to be informed.” And so, that’s
how he knew about what was going on in the world, watching TV. [00:23:00] He
always read the paper every day. I mean, even though the Brawley news didn’t
have much. But he did with the paper -- and so, he forced us to watch the news.
So, we were aware of what was going on. And so, he was afraid for us or for me
that here I was, going into this world, and someone was going to influence me
into doing something that was not the best for me. Of course, it didn’t happen
the way he said it. But being in San Diego away from home in the height of the
Chicano movement, of course I was going to be influenced by what was
happening there, the movement for civil rights for Mexicanos and Chicanos. And
even though at first I didn’t see myself as a Chicana because I was born in
Mexico, it was later that I called myself as a Chicana because being a Chicana
[00:24:00] meant that you were for the rights of your people, of Mexican
Americans and people that were living here in the United States. And so, of
course I was for those rights. So, I called myself as a Chicana. And everybody
around me -- I lived in San Diego and every Chicano or Chicano that you saw -they were involved in they movement. They talked about the movement. And
they always wanted the HEP students -- it was 40 of us that were going through
that program.
JJ:

Everybody is -- oh, in the program. You were all taking about --

13

�LG:

Well, we were from that ranchitos from around California. And then, the students
-- there were already students going to San Diego that were also from the
ranchitos. But they were already politicized. And so, they were talking about the
movement. And introducing [00:25:00] the new ones like us from HEP into the
Chicano movement.

JJ:

They HEP? So, what do you mean the HEP?

LG:

It’s high school equivalency program. We were HEP students.

JJ:

You were ahead of the time.

LG:

And the Chicano students were [hepeada?], la hepeada, you know?

JJ:

Okay. Hepeana now from (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

LG:

No, no, no, HEP, from the initials of the program. And so, whenever there was
going to be march that the MECha students were organizing or the Chicanas
wanted to do this or whatever, they always said, “For this, ask the hepeada,”
because there were 40 of us that we can go in the bus and we could make a big
rally and scream with our posters and whatever. So, that’s how I was introduced
into the Chicano movement, not intellectually but mainly through the people that I
knew, the students that I knew in San Diego State at the university and [00:26:00]
talking to them, dialoguing. And little bit little -- and going to the marches, you
know, going to the marches for -- at the border of Tijuana and San Isidro.

JJ:

Oh, there were marches right at the border?

LG:

Yeah, yeah.

JJ:

What was that representing? What were they trying to do?

14

�LG:

The marches at the border were for the better treatment of indocumentados,
people that were here in the border.

JJ:

At that time.

LG:

Yeah. Or that were -- better working conditions. Yeah, at that time. So, there
were a couple in there. And then, we also -- the governor -- Reagan was the
governor at that time, around that time. There were always demonstrations
against him, that the students -- that we had for what he represented.

JJ:

They didn’t like him then? (laughter)

LG:

Oh gosh, no. They hated him. Well, not everyone in California because he won
two terms. No? [00:27:00] But certainly the students did not like him at all. And
then, there were just conferences that we had to go to. There were student
conferences MECha would organize to introduce high school students into a
college environment.

JJ:

So, this group of about 40 was always active in something, in some kind of a --

LG:

Yes. Some of them joined the Brown Berets. Some of them joined the Chicanas,
like I did, and the Teatro. Some of the guy -- some of the other guys joined
Teatro Mestizo. We were very active. And a group of us, after we got our high
school diploma -- then we enrolled into San Diego state and started going to San
Diego State.

JJ:

Okay. So, this wasn’t San Diego State. This was the high school or --

LG:

No, it was San Diego State University. They called it San Diego State University.

JJ:

Oh, but you studied even before you went to San Diego State University.
[00:28:00]

15

�LG:

Yeah. But the HEB program was in San Diego State, was part of that campus.

JJ:

I see. So, part of it was to try to get students into --

LG:

Yeah, interested into high education. So, it wasn’t -- I think I met Felicitas in
1970s, I think. It was before the Chicana organized the tea for our mothers. So,
1970. I would hear about this woman Felicitas that was real --

JJ:

What did you hear about her?

LG:

(Spanish) [00:28:37]. (laughs) A very brave and courageous woman that all the
women, all the Chicanas loved and respected and all the guys fears. (laughter)
So, she was a very militant person. [00:29:00]

JJ:

What would the guys fear her?

LG:

Because there was a lot of machismo in our student organization. And she did
not stand for that kind of ideology that said that men were better than the women.
And so, in a way -- well, it was fighting for women’s rights and that equality in the
movement, in the Chicano movement. And that’s sort of what inspired the
forming of Teatro de las Chicanas in 1971 by both Felicitas and Delia Ravelo that
we -- I mean, we started -- they started out by doing a skit for the mothers, for
their mothers to come into the campus so that they could relate to them what it
was to go to college, the problems that they were facing, the issues [00:30:00] of
drugs, sex, and the machismo so that they could be that kind of understanding
between mothers and daughters. I was not a student at San Diego State at that
time. I was at HEB getting my high school diploma. But as a HEB student -some of the HEB students attended that. And it was at that time at that
conference that I realized that I kind of changed by thinking about being

16

�Mexicana and being a Chicana. I think the conference, that gathering was very
educational for the mothers but also for the new students that were coming into
San Diego State and into the Chicano movement to understand what we were all
about. So, after that skit that they did [00:31:00] -- what was the name of the
skit? “Chicano Goes to College.” That the Teatro stayed. Delia and Felicitas -that the Teatro stayed. And the recruit women students and Chicanas into the
Teatro. And the main focus of the Teatro, of the skits at the beginning back in
’71, ’72 was fighting against the ideology of the machismo, the male supremacy
and all of that. All of our skits were against that. And that was sort of our
continuity from -JJ:

So then, what did you show on your skit? I mean, what (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible)?

LG:

[Speaking 00:31:44 Pues, te voy a decir.] We had a very famous skit (Spanish)
[00:31:50].

JJ:

Yeah. Tell me about that. I don’t know remember.

LG:

But you say, “Bronca, bronca, bronca, bronca.” So say it like that and it really
ends up being cabron. [00:32:00] And so, cabron is -- what --

FN:

It’s like a goat.

LG:

It’s like an asshole. Cabron, he’s being an asshole. And so, that’s what -- I think
people remember us more for that skit that was like five minutes long than all the
stuff that we did. I mean, we did actos that were half an hour or longer.

FN:

Right. “La Madre.”

17

�LG:

“The Mother” was almost an hour. But everyone remembers “Bronca.” Everyone
remembers “Bronca” because -- and it wasn’t very popular with the men or with
the women. The women that that we were too much -- you know, too blunt and
that there were better ways of talking to the guys about their male supremacy.
And then, the guys -- of course, they didn’t like [00:33:00] us. They didn’t like iot
because we were calling them assholes in public. So, it was like calling them out
to fight with us or that we were ready to fight them. And one of the -- some of the
lines are, “Why do you think (Spanish) [00:33:16]?” You know, do you see pots
and pans hanging from me? Every time we’re discussing the conference and
who’s going to take care of the food, all the guys look at the women to see who’s
going to volunteer. You know, it’s not just the job of women but of men. And
then, we would say “bronca.” It’s like, “Come on.” Let’s duke it out. And of
course, they didn’t like it. The funny thing -- and I think it’s very funny because in
politics and the movement, there’s always love, relationships. There was the
Teatro de Chicanas, all women, and then there was Teatro Mestizo, which was
men and women. [00:34:00] And Felicitas and myself -- were we the only ones?
There were other women, but they were not part of the Teatro de Chicanas.
Felicitas and I belonged to both teatros. So, we toured together. There was a
spot they would get -- or if there was a spot that we would get at a university, the
two teatros would go together. And so, the Teatro Mestizo would perform and
then the Teatro de Chicanas would perform.

JJ:

What was the difference?

18

�LG:

Teatro Mestizo did all the plays that were written by Teatro Campesino, by Luis
Valdez or that supposedly were written by Luis Valdez. And there was a
organization Teatros Nacionales de Aztlan. And it was a grouping of all the
teatros in all the universities throughout the Southwest. It was a very important
organization at one time. And the ones that were [00:35:00] heading that
organization was Teatro Campesino, Luis Valdez. And so, most of the actos and
the skits that were performed in the Chicano movement in the different
universities were written by Teatro Campesino and Luis Valdez, like “No Saco
Nada de la Escuela,” I don’t get anything from school -- I don’t know -- Soldado
Razo, which was an acto against the Vietnam War. But one of the -- so, that was
-- the actos -- and they were good. I don’t have any complaint about the
message. But there was one thing that they were at fault, and that was the way
they portrayed women because women were either virgins not to be touched only
to be looked at or prostitutes.

FN:

Or mothers.

LG:

Yeah. And that -- loose women [00:36:00] that should not be respected. And
that’s not the Chicanas. I mean, we are that, but we’re not. But we’re also a
bunch of other stuff. There’s different grades of who the Chicanas are. And for
the most part not a recognition that we’re equal just like they were. So, because
of that, we wrote our own skits, our own actos that portrayed women as strong
women, that dealt with issues of the women such of pregnancies and so forth
and looked for solutions that we were looking at at that time not a solution that
someone else was telling us to do, whether it be religious institutions or

19

�government or just the culture, our culture, of what we should do. So, the plays
were written by the Teatro. It was a collective process in the -JJ:

What issues did you [00:37:00] write?

LG:

We would deal with pregnancy, with -- the one I was telling you, “Bronca,” male
supremacy. We dealt with drugs. And we also started dealing with labor issues
because it was Teatro de Chicanas, 1971. And after that it became Teatro
Laboral. And then, we ended up -- and at the end it was Teatro Raices, which
ended up 1985. So, as our thinking changed, our ideology -- we started out with
women’s rights, but then it became workers’ rights and it became being inclusive
of everyone. And seeing that some of the issues affected everyone whether they
were Black or white or Brown. I mean, the issue of drugs is an industry, and it
affects everyone. The issue of [00:38:00] working conditions affects everyone.
So, we started dealing with that, with working conditions. And the thing that
Teatro is known for among us is that something’s happening somewhere where
one of the Teatro members is -- one of the stories in the book is [Sandra
Gutierrez?] is in Coachella working or living there -- well, she’s from there. And
then, she happens to -- the community starts organizing against this teacher that
slapped one of the students. And they’re really riled up in the UFW because it
was very strong there in Coachella. And they also started also being part -- they
organized the community against that. So, Sandra calls the -- I believe Felicitas
or Delia and says, “This is what’s happening in Coachella. [00:39:00] They’re
having a big meeting tomorrow. Can you guys come down and perform?”
(laughs) And that was like (inaudible). So, as they’re driving -- I was not part of

20

�that -- as they’re driving over there, they’re writing the skit. “You’re going to be
so-and-so. You’re going to be the teacher. You’re going to be the student.
You’re going to be the mother and everything.” And then, everybody’s trying to -we didn’t really write lines at first. It was just this is sort of what you’re supposed
to say, like the theme and the message. And then, we would ad lib it. So, that’s
how. And then -JJ:

What about practice? When would you practice?

LG:

Forget practice. (laughs)

JJ:

You didn’t practice.

LG:

That was one of the things that Teatro Campesino did. They would -- all the time
they would criticize our form. And I think it was really -- they were not happy with
the content either because they were very cultural and nationalistic and so forth.
[00:40:00] And we were like working class. You know? But they always -- they
couldn’t say that -- or they never did say it, but they did say, “It’s their form. They
don’t know how to act. They’re so embarrassing to see them out there.” But
maybe the form wasn’t great, but the message was good. And the audience’s
reaction was that they loved it. Then we had a question and answer after each
acto. And we would stand there. And whatever questions people wanted to
know, we would answer. So, it was part of the educational process, not just
doing the skit or the acto but then the Q&amp;A. And then, we’d further the ideas and
so forth. So, the Teatro was very effective. I mean, ask me. (laughter) Don’t ask
anybody else.

21

�JJ:

But it just looks natural. You also involved audience, right? [00:41:00] Or you
didn’t. When you did a dinner --

LG:

Yes, (Spanish) [00:41:06]. Yeah. We always involved audiences because we
never had enough people. Like I said, that trip to Coachella was whoever could
take off from work, get a babysitter, or drag the kids with us that were -- if people
had kids by then. Well, I mean, we all started having kids kind of young. So, it
was that. So, then, if we need someone to play a certain role and we see
someone or if (Spanish) [00:41:33], if they come close to us and they’re friendly,
we say, “Oh, we need you to do this.” And then, before you know it, she’s acting
or he’s acting or whatever. So, yeah, we do try to involve the audience. And in
fact now that -- when we started touring about our book Teatro de las Chicanas,
we -- people -- some of the woman gravitated to us [00:42:00] from the
conference and some of them because part of the Teatro and did perform with
us. We have a skit called -- we did one on -- as a tribute to Las Mujeres de
Juarez. And then, some of the women that were not in the Teatro back then were
performing this time. But going back to 1971 -- I have to tell you a story.
Because all of the sudden Nefelez was gone. We were in school. We were in
the university. (Spanish) [00:42:34] Nobody knew. But then, a few months later,
there she comes. And she comes dressed in her militant -- her uniform after that.
It was her jeans, her boots, and the army jacket that you later told me that it was
your brother’s from the Vietnam War. And she always wore that and (Spanish)
[00:42:55]. So, we asked -- I asked, [00:43:00] “Where were you?” And she
started talking about -- she had come to Chicago because she was near. She

22

�had met someone from the Young Lords. And she had come to spend the
summer or a few months here in Chicago to help. While she was here she did
the murals. She did some murals and stuff like that. But it was the first time that
I had heard of the Young Lords. And the first time like, “Oh, okay.” And it was
kind of neat because one of the things about the Teatro -- I don’t want to speak
for the Chicano movement because it wouldn’t be right because it’s not true -- but
the Teatro is that we always looked to connect with different people. No importa
what nationality they were and so forth. And that was one of the things that I
think in the ’70s that I think [00:44:00] it hurt the movements was the separation
of the different movements, the Chicano movement over here, the African
Americans over here, the Native Americans, the women’s movement and so
forth. Even though there were (inaudible) there was also a lot of efforts to
separate us. And I think it was because of the money. There was so much
money given to MECha, so much money given to the student body, so much
money given to that organization. So, whether we wanted to or not, we were
scrambling for the crumbs among ourselves. But one of the things about the
Teatro de las Chicanas that I really liked was the internationalism of especially
Felicitas and Delia, that openness about it that, “Yeah, we can go and talk to
people and share ideas and learn about their struggles and so forth.” [00:45:00]
So, that was the first time that I had heard of the Young Lords. And then -- when
was it? Here in -JJ:

You mentioned a little bit about Delia.

LG:

Delia? Delia was a beautiful sister that -- (phone ringing)

23

�(break in audio)

LG:

About Delia Ravelo -- I don’t even know when I met Delia. But I know I met Delia
after Felicitas because first I met Felicitas and [Chiba?], [Celia Romero?]. And
then, afterwards I met Delia. but Delia -- what can I say about Delia? Delia was
just a beautiful soul, beautiful soul, but always had words of encouragement.
And I think that’s [00:46:00] one of the things that we needed at that time. You’re
17, you’re 18. You’re doing different things that are out of the norm. You’re
breaking with your culture, your -- everything that you’ve been taught. And so, as
you step into these new waters, you do need reinforcement. And that’s one of
the things that Delia did. “Come on Chinita, (Spanish) [00:46:27], you can do it,
Chinita. (Spanish) [00:46:29],” this and that and whatever. And it was -- I kind of
really liked that the leadership between -- that both Felicitas and Delia provided
because Delia was softspoken with a lot of encouragement. And Felicitas was a
little bit more fuerte. And I think you need that. When you’re like, “I don’t know.
I’m scared. What are people going to say? I don’t know if I can do it.” You need
the soft [00:47:00] voice or leadership that says, “Yes, you can do it.” And then,
you need then other one, “Andale,” you know? Because I remember several
times that Felicitas had to almost physically push me on the stage (laughs)
because I said, “I can’t do it. I have to go to the bathroom. I have to go number
two.” And it was like boing, there I am on stage. And then, that happiness that
you get, that saying, “Oh my gosh. I really can do it.” And that was what -- Delia

24

�provided that encouragement and so did Felicitas. I remember when I did
“Chicana Goes to College,” it wasn’t for our mothers. It was a different time. And
[Teresa Oyo?] -- she’s in our book. And she was my mother, and I was a
daughter. And I was like shaking because I was talking and saying my lines.
And I whispered to Teresa. (Spanish) [00:47:57] You know, my hands are
shaking. And she says, “Don’t worry about it. I’m going to told them really tight
[00:48:00] so no one can know.” And that was really good. That’s what I needed,
you know, someone to hold me (laughter) real tight as I’m talking. But that’s the
kind of courage that it took of the women back then and the kind of reassurance
that we needed from our sisters to be there when we get weak, for someone to
encourage us and to push us forward. And Delia and Felicitas certainly did that.
I think her dying in ’95 was really something -- I don’t want to say sad -- but she
certainly is missed. She’s a person that filled up the whole room with her
personality. And she was -- she had a really good sense of humor. She was
always cracking jokes or, “Come on. Let’s do this and let’s do that,” or whatever.
[00:49:00] And I also remember that she was -- one of the things I liked about her
is that she didn’t care how she looked. This is when I first met her. I think later
she might have, or maybe she did -- whatever. But (Spanish) [00:49:16 00:49:27]. And the way I was raised it I had to dress nice like a señorita. When I
went to college -- I guess all of us Chicanas (Spanish) [00:49:35] with our little
dresses and our -- well, they weren’t using pantyhose -- but our stockings and
the garter belt and everything. And it was so stiff. And when you get there and
you see this person like -- se va -- there goes the bra. (laughter) And it was great.

25

�It was just really great to be part of that time and having the sisters like Delia
around. And not only [00:50:00] Delia, all of the women of Teatro de -- they
helped mold us. And we helped mold them and they helped us mold -- it was
real reciprocal of encouragement. And (Spanish) [00:50:18] but that’s one of the
things. (Spanish) [00:50:21] but then we’ve got to perform. And then, we got to
take care of the babies. and then, it’s your turn to take care of the babies. Or I’ll
hold the baby while you go and say your line (Spanish) [00:50:32] We were
always exchanging and helping each other out. But I left San Diego in ’78 and
then moved to San Francisco.
JJ:

Did you go to school there in San Diego?

LG:

You know, I’m one of those chicas -- I went to San Diego State up until my third
year, and I didn’t graduate. I’m one of the Chicanas that was pregnant.
[00:51:00] And I advise everyone to use contraceptives so that doen’t happen.
Please. Because you always think (Spanish) [00:51:07] And I think Latinas -well, at that time -- I don’t know now. But I think it’s always worth it to say --

JJ:

What was your child’s name?

LG:

My son -- my first son is [Emilio?]. But then, so, there I was pregnant. And so,
my husband and I -- he was 19. I was 20. And so, we decided --

JJ:

What was his name?

LG:

[Jose?]. He’s still my husband. (laughs) So then, we want to have the baby.
(Spanish) [00:51:45] And so, there we go. We get into this little car from San
Diego State to Yuma -- my parents lived in Yuma -- to tell them that, no, “You’re
going to be grandparents, but no wedding.” Of course, little did I know.

26

�[00:52:00] Of course, we get to the house. I tell my mother while my stepfather is
talking to Jose. And then, my mother starts screaming, “No.” You know,
(Spanish) [00:52:13]. And then, Jose tells me -- he said, “Oh, when I heard your
mom screen, the TV went like this. I thought I was going to faint. And then, your
stepfather said, (Spanish) [00:52:25]. So then, he came to the bedroom and
(Spanish) [00:52:30] -- with the alcohol -- (laughter) [00:52:33] (Spanish) to
remind people -- (Spanish) [00:52:37] And then, he says -- my mom revives. He
said, (Spanish) [00:52:43]. And she said, [00:52:45] (Spanish). And then, my
father says, “Oh well, we knew that was going to happen, being away from home.
She’s young and so forth. So, that’s not a big deal. (Spanish) [00:52:56] my
mom says, (Spanish) [00:52:58] And then, my father says, “Oh no. She’s going
to get married, and she’s not leaving here until she gets married.” I go, “What?”
And he says, “Yeah.” And he got the local pages and he got the hospital or
something -- clinic to do the blood test because at that time they had to have the
blood test. And then, we went to Winter Haven where people go and have short
marriages or whatever. And there we walk in barefooted with our jeans and tshirt, going -- walking down the aisle to get married that night.
JJ:

Jeans and t-shirt, barefooted, hippie style?

LG:

Yes. (laughs)

JJ:

Okay. You guys (inaudible).

LG:

With the hair like this. I don’t know why I thought it was so cool to be barefooted.
I think it’s also --

JJ:

(laughter) And pregnant.

27

�LG:

And pregnant, you know? (Spanish) [00:53:55] You know, that way you didn’t
have to buy shoes or something. [00:54:00] But anyway, yes, I can say that I had
a shotgun wedding. And yes, tradition still -- I was very liberated. My parents
were not. (laughs) And so, I left the house. I got there at four o’clock. I left the
house at eight o’clock after I was married to San Diego. So, (Spanish)
[00:54:27]. But I don’t know why I was saying that.

FN:

I think he asked your husband’s name. But you were going to talk a little bit
about the reunion of the Young Lords in Grand Rapids.

LG:

Oh, I know why I talked about that. Because after college we all went different
ways. And I happened to go to San Francisco. And then, eventually I ended up
here in Chicago in 1981.

JJ:

Had you been there in Chicago before? [00:55:00]

LG:

No. Well, I had come in 1974 because (Spanish) [00:55:02] Felicitas got us
politically involved and awakened, I joined a -- I became a member of --

JJ:

What does that mean? Politically --

LG:

Politically awakened.

JJ:

But I thought you were already political awakened.

LG:

Yeah. But I took the next step in 1974 to commit myself to an organization. I
joined a political party. I joined the Communist Labor Party in ’74.

JJ:

The Communist Labor Party in San Diego?

LG:

(Spanish) [00:55:34] in a church that was on Ashland, big church there around
Van Buren or whatever.

28

�JJ:

Right, right. Panthers -- and we used to have political education classes there at
that church.

LG:

(Spanish) [00:55:48]

JJ:

That’s where the Communist Labor Party started?

LG:

In 1974 there was a big meeting.

JJ:

Nineteen seventy-four? But did you commit to that (inaudible)?

LG:

Yes. I came to that meeting. [00:56:00]

JJ:

From San Diego?

LG:

From San Diego, yeah.

JJ:

So, how did you get started in San Diego thinking about (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible)?

LG:

I started in San Diego because one of the things -- first, it was getting involved in
the Chicano movement for our people’s rights, women’s rights. But then, my
vision started expanding to include the working class regardless of color and so
forth.

JJ:

How did your vision start expanding?

LG:

I think a lot of it -- even though your conditions don’t make you -- don’t change
you, they certainly help you. I mentioned before -- I come from a very, very, very
poor beginnings (Spanish) [00:56:46] sometimes we would go hungry. And just
living in the -- I lived in -- it’s a funny thing. In Sinaloa, I was a healthy child up
until seven. Then in order to be closer to my parents, we moved to Mexicali, a
border town because California and Mexicali, Baja California. That way my mom
could just come over on weekends and see us, her being Hispanic. And so, in

29

�Mexicali, we were very poor. We didn’t have running water. So, I think seeing
that poverty and seeing that other people have too much and don’t want to share
-- even as a child, even as a young person, you start questioning things. So, I
think that -- seeing the injustices, not only socially but economically -JJ:

Did you read something? Did you bump into somebody?

LG:

Well, in Teatro, in Teatro de las Chicanas, we started reading one of the -- and
just in study groups. [00:58:00]

JJ:

The (overlapping dialogues; inaudible) question in study groups?

LG:

Yes. We read The Women Question. The other thing was in order thing is in
order to be part of writing the Teatro, the skits, the actos, we had to read. We
had to read the news. We had to read other books about it, some classics on
Marx on Engels.

JJ:

You know, we actually had a Young Lords group in Los Angeles that the
Communist Labor Party took over.

LG:

A Communist Labor Party took over?

JJ:

They were (inaudible) Labor Party that -- I think it was the group that -- were you
in -- did they have a chapter in Los Angeles?

LG:

Oh yeah, yeah.

JJ:

They started working with the Young Lords after I left there.

LG:

Oh, it could be.

JJ:

And a lot of them became members of that group. And I had also been to San
Diego at that time too.

30

�LG:

And then, we had a chapter there in San Diego. And then, we also had a chapter
in New York. And the chapter in New York was mainly Puerto Rican. [00:59:00]

FN:

The connection between the Young Lords was [Izzy Chavez?]. Izzy Chavez had
joined the chapter you were creating in San Diego.

JJ:

That’s right. Izzy Chavez -- I’m looking for him.

FN:

Oh, we know where he’s at.

JJ:

Oh great (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

FN:

So then, what happens is he ---

JJ:

Izzy Chavez -- I remember him.

FN:

He’s in Chicago making copies of a newspaper -- I don’t know -- something about
some connection to the Young Lords. And he meets Nelson.

LG:

Oh my gosh. Yeah. Nelson Peery

JJ:

So, who’s Nelson?

LG:

Nelson was one of the founders of the Communist Labor Party.

JJ:

I was underground when they organized that chapter. I was looking for people
like Izzy Chavez and then I remembered him.

LG:

Oh my gosh. Well, we were part of it.

JJ:

So, that’s what I mean. I thought it was the Communist Labor Party that took
over it after I left.

LG:

Yeah, yeah, most likely, yeah, because they were a grouping of different
(Spanish) [00:59:55] and there were different groupings in LA that came together.
[01:00:00]

JJ:

So, he became a member of the Communist --

31

�LG:

What was his name? Do you remember?

JJ:

Well, you said Izzy Chavez.

LG:

Oh, Izzy. Oh, (Spanish) [01:00:06].

JJ:

Yeah.

LG:

Oh, okay. Oh, oh, okay.

JJ:

It’s a small world.

FN:

And [Mundo Ruiz?]?

JJ:

Mundo Ruiz. Oh, yeah. (Spanish) [01:00:19] -- I was under when I was
organizing the Young Lords chapter. And we were trying to find these people to
include them in this project.

LG:

Oh yeah. We know where Izzy is. We know. And Mundo, I don’t know.

FN:

I saw him last week.

JJ:

So, I definitely (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

LG:

And then, Nelson lives here in Chicago.

JJ:

Explain a little bit about Izzy. You know anything (inaudible)?

LG:

Israel, Izzy. (Spanish) [01:00:41] I have to pronounce the zetas, and it’s hard for
me. Izzy, Izzy. (Spanish) [01:00:51] (laughter) So, he used to tell me, “Israel.” I
met Israel [01:01:00] back in 1975. He came back from Chicago. He was here
in Chicago with his with [Marta?]. And they came back to San Diego to organize
a chapter of the Communist Labor Party in San Diego and that’s how I met Izzy
because he was in charge of that chapter in San Diego. And his wife -- that’s
how I started with the Tribuno del Pueblo. The Tribuno del Pueblo was a
publication of the CLP, the Communist Labor Party. It was the bilingual -- or the

32

�Spanish newspaper. And Marta, Israel’s wife, was the editor of the Tribuno de
Pueblo. And so, when I joined the party, I left Teatro and Felicitas still mad about
that. I left Teatro and I joined the editorial board of Tribuno del Pueblo. And
that’s where -- I’ve been working on it since then. Now, the [01:02:00] Tribuno
has gone -- okay, the Communist Labor Party is not -- it’s gone. Then out of
whatever was left of the Communist Labor Party -- in the ’90s it was dissolved -then there was a national organizing party that was formed to rebuild another
organization. And that organization is the Legal Revolutionaries for a New
America. And the chair of that organization is [General Baker?]. He’s an auto
worker in Detroit. In fact, the Communist Labor Party -- one of the foundations or
the backbone of the Communist Labor Party was the auto workers in Detroit.
They were -- because they had the League of Revolutionary Black Workers. And
the League of Revolutionary Black Workers joined the Communist Labor Party
and provided the members and the money because auto workers earn a lot of
money [01:03:00] and financed it for a long time. But now it’s a League of
Revolutionaries for a New America, and General Baker is the chair. And then,
the Tribuno is independent now. It’s not sponsored or published by any
organization. It’s independent. It’s based on donations. People get a bundle.
They sell it or give them or get donations. And then, we gather enough money.
And when we have enough money, then we publish an issue. And it’s actually -the Tribuno del Pueblo became revived after the 2006 marches because -JJ:

What were those? Can you -- the 2006 marches?

33

�LG:

The 2006 marches was an outcome of a bill, H.B. 4437 that wanted [01:04:00] -that bill was a proposal. It had passed in the House in December of 2005, and it
was going into the Senate in 2006. And what it really said -- that anyone that
either housed or gave a ride to an undocumented, that aided that person in any
way -- that they were going to be arrested and it was going to be a felony. So,
the fact that you were going to become a felon just for helping another human
being with a ride or social service -- and it was going to include unions and social
services. Anyway, that kind of fired the movement and then exploded into the
2006 marches. And it’s the new immigrant rights movement right now. In fact,
[Omar?] -- Omar used to be in the Young Lords. [01:05:00]

JJ:

He was a minister of (inaudible).

LG:

Omar was one of the founders of the March 10th Movement. That’s what it’s
called here in Chicago.

JJ:

It was part of the same movement?

LG:

Yeah, because the March 10th Movement did a march -- the 2006 marches -they were mainly around (Spanish) [01:05:20] (laughs) Chicago did their march -thousands of people came out -- in March 10th of 2006, so a couple of days later.
Then we did have a primero de mayo marcha. And we had -- I know the official
figure said that it wasn’t that many. But I think there was like 500,000 people on
the street if not more. It was a beautiful sight. It was just --

JJ:

It was here?

LG:

It was here in Chicago. But then in --

JJ:

Five hundred thousand?

34

�LG:

In LA, it was a million. [01:06:00] I mean, it was a historic thing of how many
Latinos got out into the streets and (Spanish) [01:06:11] and that, pushing the
baby carts. That was a symbol of the marches. It’s not one person that you get
to a march. It’s like the whole family and la abuelita, los nietos, and everybody
just taking the streets and just marching. So, Omar was part of -- is part of that.
And it’s still a continuing effort right now. So, that’s how that Tribuno revived after
the 2006 marches because --

JJ:

Does it come every day? Does it come out --

LG:

It comes out, like I said -- depends on the money. Sometimes we get enough to
publish it every two months. Sometimes it’s every three months. We’re hoping
to publish it at least once a month. [01:07:00]

JJ:

Do you mail it out or --

LG:

Well, we do -- it’s bundles. In 2006 I went to a conference and met with a lot of
grassroots organizations on a one-to-one basis, got their information, introduced
the paper to them, and then they order bundles. So, we run about a thousand
every time and half of those are (audio cut) two thirds of them are distributed by
small organizations, grassroot organizations, not the traditional model for
[Mapalo?] or LULAC, but the little small organizations, little (Spanish) [01:07:46]
and it’s distributed in Rhode Island, Texas, Dallas, California, here, Detroit. But
it’s in that way. You might get a bundle of [01:08:00] 500 and then you get it out
wherever you go, in your meetings, the restaurants. So, that’s the way it gets
distributed. And then, hopefully we’re going to advance to having a listserv.
We’re coming up. That way -- this young man is going to help us. We rely a lot

35

�on young people because they have the knowledge to do it. Back to -- I want to
say something about -- so, I came in 1981. But I want to talk about a very
exciting time in Chicago and that is the Harold Washington campaign. He was
running for mayor. He did what no one could and that was unite, unite all of us
into a movement. And he always said it was a movement. It was a movement of
the people to try to get the city back. [01:09:00] And Harold Washington had the
charisma, the spirit, and the love for the people that he wanted to represent. It
was amazing being here in Chicago when he was brought in because I would
walk down Humboldt Park and it was like we all had our little buttons with the
sun, (Spanish) [01:09:23] Harold Washington. And then, we wouldn’t even know
each other. But then, they would see my button and I would see their button.
And we would go, “Oh, right on.” You know? So, it was like we became -- the
city or the people here in Humboldt Park, which is where I live -- everyone was
their friends. Everyone was happy to see you. We had something in common. I
remember the rally on North Avenue and Western where thousands of Latinos
were there to receive him. And it was the -JJ:

And it was organized by the Young Lords. [01:10:00]

LG:

That was organized by the Young Lords. And you were in the podium or on the
platform and stuff like that. And I just remembered him walking in, Harold
Washington, when he walked in before he got on the stage. And I mean, just
hands trying to touch him, trying to shake his hand and it wasn’t because
(Spanish) [01:10:24] or anything like that. It was because here was a person that

36

�wanted to represent the interests of our communities (Spanish) [01:10:35]. And
then, once he became mayor -JJ:

And that was -- wasn’t that one of the first Latino --

LG:

Yes, oh yeah. Big one.

JJ:

It was the first Latino rally for --

LG:

Yeah.

JJ:

And it was organized by the Young Lords.

LG:

And it was -- I think -- I don’t remember very clearly. But I think it was kind of like
kicking off like --

JJ:

Kick off.

LG:

Kick off of his campaign here in [01:11:00] this area and in the Latino community,
Humboldt Park, Wicker Park, and also in Pilsen. And also, when I -- Fiesta del
Sol, he was already mayor (Spanish) [01:11:14]. You were telling me that he
wore a hat that you guys gave him.

JJ:

(inaudible)

LG:

Well, in Pilsen, he had a big mariachi hat. And he talked to the people because
he was under a lot of attack. Even though he was mayor, he was under a lot of
attack.

LIAM: (inaudible)
LG:

Hello, sweetie. Come here. Come here. Want to be on TV? (Spanish)

JJ:

What’s his name?

37

�LG:

His name is [Liam?] and he’s one of my grandsons. I have two granddaughters.
Their names are [Katelyn?] and [Gwenyth?]. Say hi. [01:12:00] Say hi. No? You
want to go with grandpa now?

L:

No.

LG:

No? Okay. Well, you can sit here and write.

JJ:

So, that was (inaudible) at that time.

LG:

Yeah.

JJ:

And it actually was on -- what floor was it?

LG:

Yeah because he had to go up the stairs.

JJ:

No elevator.

LG:

Of course I was young then so I could --

JJ:

But it was bad.

LG:

Yeah. It was. It was like standing.

JJ:

Did you pay to get in?

LG:

No, (Spanish) [01:12:28]. (laughter)

JJ:

Everybody thought (inaudible) but they had tickets.

LG:

Yeah, yeah. And it was organized (Spanish) [01:12:41], no? I mean, I remember
because I remember -- it was like -- I didn’t expect that many people to be there
from that community (Spanish) [01:12:52]. But that’s -- he was a great man.

JJ:

And did you go to the other rally in [Algo?] Park or no, the big one? [01:13:00]

LG:

I don’t remember.

JJ:

Like a parade.

38

�LG:

No, I don’t remember that. I remember that we certainly organized to get the
vote for him. That was the first time that I was -- I became involved in politics,
electoral politics because it was very important for people to come out and vote
for Harold. And so, I -- knocking on doors, telling them the information and so
forth and then that day of the election going to get the people to come, help them
and remind them so forth.

JJ:

So, how did you feel when he won? I mean, because we’re used to picketing,
right? But now we got a mayor. So, how did you feel?

LG:

Great. I felt like I owned the city, like the city was mine, that it was the people’s,
the city, and full of hope that things were going to change, that there was a
person that really [01:14:00] wanted to fight for our interests. And it was a fight. I
mean, that was one of the things he would tell us even after he became mayor
and he would talk in different places. He would say, “I’m fighting. But I can’t fight
alone. I need you. You represent the movement. You’ve got to be behind me
and fighting for your program.” He had a program.

JOSE: (Spanish) [01:14:27]
LG:

I’m videotaping, Jose.

JJ:

[Overlapping dialogue; inaudible]

LG:

I know.

JJ:

I got [inaudible].

J:

Come on. Let’s change your diaper. (laughter)

LG:

Bye.

J:

Say bye.

39

�LG:

It was hot outside. Okay. (Spanish) [01:14:51] So, anyway -- so, yeah.
[01:15:00] Now going back to Lincoln Park. But it was a great experience. It was
a good way of getting introduced to Chicago. I became a judge, I mean, a judge
in the elections. During the elections, the election day they needed people to be
judges. They have -- you know, to make sure that everything is legal, that people
that come in to vote, they are in the roster, that it’s the right address and
everything. And that’s how we did. The Harold Washington campaign had
people there, and I was one of them. I played a very small role. I was more like
whatever they needed when they could and stuff like that. There were other
people that worked hard.

JJ:

But the election was in the precinct. There was one. [01:16:00] So, it was an
important one.

LG:

At that point I lived in Homan and Potomac. He had a good support there.

JJ:

And did he win in the Latino area?

LG:

Yeah. (Spanish) [01:16:16] that machine was very strong in Wicker Park, the
Democratic Party machine. I mean, it’s years of them -- the precinct captain
going around, telling people who to vote for, and giving them jobs and whatever.
That’s the machine. And it was hard to break.

JJ:

But we broke them.

LG:

Yes, yes, remember that shock.

JJ:

That’s what I understand the (inaudible) we broke the machine here.

LG:

Exactly, the machine was broken. It was broken already. But that was the blow
that -- and it was a great time to be involved in politics.

40

�JJ:

So, at least we know -- even though we’re [01:17:00] far from it right now, we
know what has to be done.

LG:

Yes, yes (inaudible). We got to have a program of what people need.

JJ:

What do you think we have to do? What were the lessons?

LG:

(Spanish) [01:17:19], what I learned from it was that Harold Washington was not - had a program, had a program based on what people needed in the
communities, education, housing, fighting the question of issues of drugs and so
forth. And he would tell the people, “This is what I’m going to do. This is my
platform. This is my program.” And when he was elected mayor, he set out to do
that. It’s not like other candidates that say, “(Spanish [01:17:52].” Once they
become whatever office they win, then (Spanish). [01:18:00] So, I think to me it’s
--

JJ:

Well, what happened? You set out to do it. But what happened?

LG:

What happened to him?

JJ:

After he got elected.

LG:

He told the people to fight for the program.

JJ:

What about you (inaudible) were they supportive?

LG:

Oh yeah. [01:18:14] (Spanish) and the Black unity of -- at that time, it was really
[Losano?]. [Chuy?] was not an alderman, Chuy Garcia. But he was with
[Rudy?]. They worked together. And then, [Rush, Bobby Rush?]. (Spanish)
[01:18:36]. And [Soliz?] wasn’t there. [Gutierrez?] was not an alderman.

JJ:

No, he wasn’t. In fact, he was a --

LG:

He was a state --

41

�JJ:

He was a precinct member, precinct (inaudible) (laughs) at that time.

LG:

At that time?

JJ:

And then, he ran for alderman and we supported him.

LG:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

JJ:

But he was [01:19:00] one of our precinct candidates (inaudible).

LG:

It opened things up, I think, for --

JJ:

Because there were two main offices, [West Town Coalition?] and the one we
had on Fullerton, those two main offices on the north side.

LG:

It was a great time. But I think as far as lessons, it’s to find out what are the
needs of people. And based on the needs of people -- I mean, not people -- then
you do that. You know? You set out to do that because after all, it’s our tax
money. It’s not like they’re going to get money from somewhere else. It’s the
taxes that we pay. So, therefore, they should go for what we need, whether it be
better schools, more schools, lower classrooms, parks, whatever. And I think
sometimes new mayors come in and they think the money’s theirs to do what
they want or their [01:20:00] groupings, their friends. And it’s not. So, the money
has to go back to the people because it’s the people that put that money there
through our taxes. And I think that’s certainly what Harold Washington was trying
to do. It was sad that he died.

JJ:

So, after that you kept working with the --

LG:

I kept working with the Tribuno. And also, I became a little bit more -- after the
election, I didn’t keep being active in the electoral politics that much except for

42

�certain people that would come around. Like right now, I’m a little bit active with
Rudy Lozano, Jr., with his campaign and stuff like that.
JJ:

Who was Rudy Lozano, Sr.?

LG:

Rudy Lozano, Sr. was the first Latino alderman and from Pilsen. And he was
[01:21:00] a trade unionist, and he was a very progressive person that was killed.
And even though they say it was just a criminal act with no reasons -- there was
no politics behind -- I tend to think that someone wanted him dead because of
what he did in the community and who he represented. He certainly was an
advocate for the rights of the undocumented. And at the time that he died, he
was organizing undocumented workers. And that’s something that his son, Rudy
Lozano, Jr. has also continued and who’s very dear to him as far as the Latino
community and the needs and stuff like that.

JJ:

And you’re working with him right now? [01:22:00]

LG:

No, just through his campaign, the last campaign that he had. Whatever I can
do, I do that. So, that’s someone that I think has a good vision of where Chicago
needs to go. I mean, of course, you start small. But eventually, who knows? We
might have a Latino president. (laughs)

JJ:

And you went also to a reunion.

LG:

Yes. I would publish and our book and everything the Teatro de las Chicanas
book in 2008. And then, we -- the Chicanas started getting together again more
frequently. But one of the times that we did get together was in -- (Spanish)
[01:22:45], 2000 and --

JJ:

Two thousand.

43

�LG:

Two thousand. But two years ago. Jose said three years. But 2000.

FN:

Delia Ravelo was still alive.

LG:

But she didn’t come, did she?

FN:

No, no, she didn’t. She was in Europe.

LG:

Yeah. [01:23:00] The Young Lords were having a reunion in Grand Rapids and
[Feliz?] -- I guess she got a message from someone that they were going to have
a reunion. And so, she organized -- Feliz is a good organizer. She organized -about six of us -- well, I’m here already -- to come to Chicago and to perform.

JJ:

(inaudible)

LG:

First they came to Chicago. They stayed in my house, six of them in one room.
(laughter) (inaudible) Actually, we stayed up all night. We went to [Rosa’s?] to
listen to blues and to another place.

FN:

Golden something.

LG:

Gold Mines or Mines something to listen. We stayed up until four or five o’clock
in the morning. Now, we’re middle-aged women. (laughter) But we could still kick
it. And Jose was our chauffer. He drove us around all over the place. He even
took us to Grand Rapids. [01:24:00] Anyway, so, after that, at eight o’clock in the
morning, we jump into the van and go to Grand Rapids to meet the Young Lords
because we have heard a lot of stories of the Young Lords. And we were very
excited to meet them, as a group, and to be part of this celebration and this
reunion. It was someone -- a group that we heard about when -- like I was
saying before -- back in the ’70s. And now, to actually meet them was really an
honor for a lot of us. I know [Inda?] was so excited and [Peggy?] and [Margie?]

44

�and [Gloria?] and myself. And so, as a way of contributing to this celebration, to
this reunion, Felicitas wrote an acto on the Lincoln Park gentrification, that whole
process that had happened.
JJ:

It was called “Madre de Corazon.”

FN:

Oh, yeah.

LG:

Yeah, “Madre de Corazon.” [01:25:00]

JJ:

Because we had -- (Spanish) [01:25:02] was our symbol.

LG:

Oh, okay. Yeah. And it was fun doing it. (Spanish) [01:25:10]

JJ:

That was the reason. Was that the reasoning?

FN:

Yeah. [“A La Brava”?]. I think the women got the lines when they boarded the
plane. And in the four hours from California to here, they had to learn them. And
then, I decided I was not going to act. I was too shy. I wasn’t going to do nothing
anymore, no acting for me. But then, I got so excited about it that I told Feliz,
“Okay. I can be in the play, but I won’t say nothing. Don’t give me any lines.”
So, I was in the -- I think one of the skits that we were driving this car and we’re
looking -- we’re being shown how gentrified Lincoln Park was. And they were
telling us what it used to be and how many Puerto Ricans lived in there and how
they were pushed [01:26:00] into Humboldt Park and so forth. And so, I was in
(inaudible). (laughter) And then, of course, we got Omar to do the husband of
Inda. And he --

JJ:

And you had Angie.

LG:

And Angie too. And then, we --

JJ:

And you had the (inaudible) was in.

45

�LG:

Yeah, [Obed?] también and then, we --

JJ:

And the kids.

LG:

And then we got two women from Palm Springs or (inaudible). They had never
done anything. And then, one was just going through the sign. And then, we had
two little kids because they were part of -- they were in the woods and were
trying to learn the history and so forth. It was really fun. It was really nice and --

JJ:

You were just trying to get some groups back together.

LG:

Yeah.

JJ:

So, it was real grassroots because everyone was just trying to get back together.

LG:

And it was really good because --

JJ:

We actually had two more camps after that.

LG:

Oh really?

JJ:

That were (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) yeah.

LG:

That’s great. [01:27:00] [“Dalichon?”] was great. (laughs)

JJ:

(inaudible) We got it from the Amish too.

LG:

Oh really?

JJ:

So, it wasn’t greatly expected. We went and got a real live pig and they killed it,
you know, typical Puerto Rican -- Latino style, whatever.

LG:

Latino style, yeah. You know what was really important for me was to listen to
the testimonials because I knew they were being taped. But to listen to your
story, to Omar, to [Ben?], some of the women that were there and even Felicitas
got up. And it was really good the way it was done because it wasn’t you talking
about it but it was someone else.

46

�JJ:

They took over the mic. They took over the mic. They wanted it so bad that they
took over the mic. It lasted about five hours.

LG:

Oh my gosh. It was all day. But it was great. It was really great. It was
[01:28:00] a good experience.

JJ:

Our 40th anniversary was the same way. They take over the mic and
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

LG:

Well, we went -- for some reason, you were in town, or did you come for that,
Felicitas?

FN:

What’s that?

JJ:

The 40th anniversary.

LG:

Over at [The Paul?]?

JJ:

No, no -- yeah, that’s where --

FN:

Yes, yeah. They were really crowded (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

JJ:

That’s where [Cindy?] had her famous -- (laughs)

LG:

Oh, at the church.

FN:

At the church. Yeah, in the church.

JJ:

In the church. You remember that, right?

FN:

Yeah.

LG:

Yes, I remember that. Pobrecito [Chacho?]. (laughter)

JJ:

What happened? What happened?

LG:

(Spanish) [01:28:34] revolutionary love. (laughs)

JJ:

What did Felicitas do? She definitely got me by surprise.

47

�LG:

Really? Oh, you don’t want me to say it again what she said? (overlapping
dialogue; inaudible)

JJ:

Well, you don’t have to say that but if you could describe what happened. What
do you remember?

LG:

What I remember from -- well, one of the things --

JJ:

Because actually did you speak after that? You were singing.

FN:

Yeah. [01:29:00] She did.

JJ:

Yeah, because you were good. You were singing.

FN:

(inaudible).

LG:

(Spanish) [01:29:03]

JJ:

Yeah, but you spoke very serious.

LG:

Oh, I didn’t talk about my --

JJ:

And the other person -- I don’t know who the other was. He was laughing at me.
But it’s alright.

FN:

Oh, [Liz Manuelas?]. (Spanish) [01:29:15]

JJ:

Oh, that’s right. Yeah. And Liz stood next to Felicitas and was laughing at me,
(laughter) enjoying the whole scene. But you came afterwards and was serious.
It was good.

LG:

Well, I had to after half and hour of “Ese Amor.” (laughter) But I think it was really
good.

JJ:

Well, that happened? What happened? (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

LG:

I think that was the first I had met in person.

JJ:

I’m still trying to organize the darn thing.

48

�LG:

I love [Edith Morales?].

JJ:

I said, “What did she just say?”

LG:

I know. It was a pleasure and an honor meeting Edith Morales. And thanks to
you, the Chicanas made contact with her. And when we go to New York, we try
to see her every time. We were just there this year. Earlier this year she got an
[01:30:00] award and we went to be part of the celebration.

JJ:

Oh, okay, good.

LG:

You know what I learned from what she said? It’s like you meet someone and
you (Spanish) [01:30:19].

JJ:

Did I say that in there?

LG:

No, no, no.

FN:

Another time.

LG:

(Spanish) [01:30:36]. But anyway, no, no, you didn’t say anything. You couldn’t
even talk. (laughs) After that, you -- but what I learned is that things happen. We
fall in love. But some of us are of a different mold (Spanish) [01:30:54] that, yes,
love is [01:31:00] important but also our vision of what we want, of the world we
want is stronger or if not as strong as that. And so, we fail at certain things, but
we keep on going. Because it would have been easy. Felicitas was -- what -21? I mean, you’re not old at all. She was a young girl. She could have just
gotten mad and left. And had she left, she would have missed all that experience
of meeting all of you guys, of working with you, of doing the murals, of meeting
other people and then being able to bring it to San Diego to us, the Chicanas.
So, in a way, it’s like yeah, (Spanish) [01:31:44] life continues and your vision and

49

�your mission -- you continue in that path. (Spanish) [01:31:53] That’s what I
learned [01:32:00] from what you said.
JJ:

You enjoyed it (inaudible).

LG:

Oh my gosh. I didn’t know she was going to do it. I didn’t know she was going to
do it. I was shocked, surprised.

JJ:

But my mind is -- I got this (inaudible) all these people are taking over. What am
I going to do?

LG:

(Spanish) [01:32:18] (laughter) It wasn’t just like --

JJ:

And I wanted her to speak because a respect for the work that she did. I mean,
and of putting together -- I mean, he helped to unite the movement or
Puertorriqueno Chicanos. So, that was important.

LG:

I remember --

JJ:

And it’s -- my part of the responsibility is head of the group. I get attacked every
day. I mean, I have to maintain the group unity all the time.

LG:

Well, I think you do very well.

JJ:

I have to [01:33:00] erase -- get away from the personal sometimes.

LG:

The other thing we came -- but (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). Yeah,
(Spanish) [01:33:06] -- remember they were doing something about the murals.
They had taken pictures or something at DePaul?

JJ:

Right, right.

LG:

That was the other time we went. We were there.

JJ:

Yeah. You went to the DePaul.

LG:

I went to the DePaul.

50

�JJ:

At the 40th anniversary. That was the --

LG:

Yeah.

JJ:

Because we had two rallies. We had one at DePaul and then we wanted to have
another one in the community.

LG:

Okay, so we went to both.

JJ:

So, you went to both.

LG:

Yes. But the one at DePaul -- (Spanish) [01:33:34].

JJ:

Right, (Spanish) [01:33:40]. Well, the other thing -- we had a lot of people too
because it was a bigger space, more (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

LG:

Oh, yes, yes. (Spanish) [01:33:46]

JJ:

And the more community (inaudible)

LG:

(Spanish) [01:33:50] (laughter)

JJ:

People didn’t bring it up. [01:34:00]

LG:

But it was good. It was good. So, I really thank Felicitas for bringing -- for putting
me in touch with you and through you the Young Lords and whatever. It’s been a
very valuable --

JJ:

I appreciate the Teatro and what they did for us. I mean, they helped us each
time. So, I appreciate that. You’re hoping it’s enough. What else? What’s your
final thoughts?

LG:

Right now?

JJ:

Yeah.

LG:

I was saying cut. (laughter) (Spanish) [01:34:31] -- now I’m going to speak
Spanish, but no, I’m going to say it in English. I think our lives -- I was telling

51

�Feliz, we must be getting old, very old because a couple of people want us to -you know, videotape us through what experiences (inaudible) or whatever. But
it’s good to at this age and to have lived through the things I have lived through.
[01:35:00] The Chicano movement was certainly an eye opener. The peace
movement, the women’s movement -- and to have continued working towards a
better society, a better world, a better human-ness that we need -- I think that’s
so important. I have friends from back then that say -- that have told me, “Don’t
you get tired? Why don’t you give up? Things are never going to change.” And I
think I have to say that Chicanas don’t give up. (laughs) If anything that you have
to learn from us is that the Chicanas don’t give up and the people from the
movement -- that if you really, really, really believe in what you fought back when
you were young, those ideals are like -- they continue. They make you go
through a certain path. [01:36:00] And I have never, never, never regretted the
path that I have taken of seeing something that’s wrong and wanting to make it
right. I’ve been happy. I’ve found my husband in the movement. I’ve been
married 40 years. I have two kids, or two young men. And I try to instill in them
the same passion that I have for humanity.
JJ:

What’s your other son’s name?

LG:

My sons -- well, the oldest one is [Emilio Nicholas?] and the younger one is
[Adrian Cortez?]. And they’re both in the movement in their own way, not the
way I did it, but the way they did it. My oldest son designs the Tribuno. He’s a
professional designer. I don’t pay him anything. But this is the paper that we
publish every two months. And he designs. [01:37:00] And then, my younger son

52

�takes pictures, and I always use his pictures. And then, (Spanish) [01:37:08] that
I can find that can proof it in English because my English is not that good, then I
get my husband to do it. (laughter) I get Jose and he starts proofing the English.
So, it’s a family effort. But I do -- am involved in my sons and everything. It's for
them to know that there is something else besides material things. (Spanish)
[01:37:36] and that our -- it’s a privilege to be part of change. And I think we owe
our responsibility to this present -- for my generation, this present generation,
and the future generation to leave a better world for them and not to leave it in
the hands [01:38:00] of the wealthy, the capitalists, the corporations that we know
which direction they’re taking. I mean, (Spanish) [01:38:09] money, money,
money (Spanish) [01:38:10] the schools are being closed, the -- everything that
we gained back in the ’70s, our rights, are being taken away. I mean, I was
talking to Felicitas last night. I mean, I am astonished of what this guy, you know,
the Republican said about the -- well, it’s -- what is it? If you get pregnant after a
rape, then it’s not a real rape. I mean, this is the 21st century and someone has
those thoughts and that mentality in relation to women and stuff like that. So, we
cannot go back to where we were before the ’70s and before the ’60s. We’ve got
to go forward. And that kind of mentality in this world [01:39:00] is not -- it cannot
be accepted but neither can it be accepted that you spend more money -- that
you don’t want to spend money on healthcare, that you don’t want -- for
everyone. A person is sick and needs healthcare -- homelessness is growing in
this country when there are so many empty homes. And what do they do with
the homes? It’s cheaper to -- the banks can’t sell them, so it’s cheaper to destroy

53

�them. So, there has to be a better society where we really put human needs first
and stop doing what they’re doing. One last thing. I support for this presidential
elections -- I support the Green Party’s candidate, Jill Stein. And in one of the
interviews that she did, she said [01:40:00] -- they asked, “Well, what if you don’t
win this election?” And she says, “But you have to begin in order to win. You
have to start.” And I really agree with her. We’re so used to choosing the lesser
of two evils because we’re going to lose. But if we don’t lose -- if we don’t get a
Republican -- I mean, a Democrat, then we’re going to have a Republican. But
they both represent the same capitalist interests, the rich and the wealthy.
They’re not representing any of us. I don’t care if Obama is Black. I think we’ve
got to look beyond color and beyond gender. We’ve got to look at -- like what we
did in Harold Washington’s campaign -- what is the program and then holding
them responsible to do it. But I fear for the youth. I work as an interpreter. I go
to the Cook County jail. We have about [01:41:00] 11,000 inmates. They’re
young. They’re like -- the majority are 17 to 25. The women’s population is
growing. I can’t -- then there’s no jobs. And the say, “Okay, well high school
diploma is not good enough.” But maybe college -- go to college. But you go to
college. It’s not enough. Something is wrong. I think we need to take
responsibility and really fight to change it. So, that’s all I want to say.
JJ:

I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

54

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Lawrence Gardner
(01:06:56)
(00:15) Background Information
•
•
•
•
•
•

Lawrence was born in Illinois near the Mississippi River
His father worked for the railroad and often was transferred around the state
Many of Lawrence’s family members were working in the circus
He went to school at Saint Thomas Academy and later got a job working as a machinist
Many of his friends had been joining the service after the war started and Lawrence felt
that it was his duty to do so also
He enlisted in the Marines in June of 1942

(09:15) Basic Training
• Lawrence took a train to Chicago and then to San Diego where he was outfitted with a
uniform that did not actually fit him
• He was sent to boot camp in Chicago where they often trained for gas attacks
• The training was tough with much discipline and they spent a lot of time running,
marching, and climbing walls
• Lawrence had been older than the other men and many of them called him “dad”
(13:45) Training Classes
• While waiting to leave for Guadalcanal, Lawrence was chosen to travel to Michigan and
take classes
• He first was sent to Abrams Aerial Service Company where he worked with aerial
photography and reconnaissance
• He later took classes at Michigan State University in Lansing and stayed in a hotel near
the capitol building
(20:20) North Carolina
• Lawrence had weapons training in NC, working with .30 caliber machine guns that were
air cooled and water cooled .50 caliber machine guns
• Lawrence got married to his girlfriend from Illinois while in NC
• She later followed him to California where she worked with the Marine Corps
• Lawrence became part of the 4th Marine Division while in CA
(24:00) Map Making
• Lawrence left on the USS Pillsbury from San Diego to Hawaii

�•
•
•
•
•
•

From Hawaii they headed for Iwo Jima but were accidently hit by another US ship and
about 300 men were killed
Lawrence then had to go back to Hawaii where he began working on a base in Maui
His job was to make maps for invasion of islands in the Pacific, like Iwo Jima, Saipan,
Tinian, and Okinawa
Lawrence would first fly over the island and take pictures of the terrain
He would sometimes land on the island and scout the area
He was working with commanders to find the best route for an attack

(34:55) Iwo Jima
• The island was surrounded with ships and Lawrence took a landing craft to shore
• There were bodies floating all over in the water
• 3 divisions had been on the island with about 70,000 men
• It was hard for them to advance past the beach and many of the landing craft had sunk
• Lawrence eventually made it to a base near the landing strip and saw many B-29s
• He volunteered to fight on the front lines and help relieve some of the men that had been
there for weeks without any breaks
(44:25) Japanese Soldiers
• There were many Japanese hiding underground behind trap doors; they would jump out
of their hiding spots, surprising and shooting the American soldiers
• They had once found a Japanese man waiting in their chow line
• He was dressed in an American uniform and spoke English
(47:15) Okinawa
• On march 15, 1945 Lawrence left Iwo Jima on a ship to Okinawa with a floating reserve
group
• They ended up being diverted to Guam because of the huge storms going through the
Pacific at that time
• Lawrence was sent back to Hawaii and discharged shortly after arriving in Chicago
(55:35) Working in the US
• Lawrence took a bus from Chicago back home in Rockford, Illinois
• He was not able to get his job back working as a machinist, though he had been told that
they would hold his position for him
• He later moved to Michigan and began working for the Michigan Gas Utility Company

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                    <text>Living With PFAS
Interviewee: Stacey Gardner
Interviewer: Dani DeVasto
Date: April 6th, 2021

[Construction noise]
DD: Oh, and please excuse any noises if you can hear that. [chuckle] We have
some plumbing work going on today.
SG: Oh no! [laughs]
DD: Which they just started sawing into the pipes.
Both: [laugh]
DD: Welcome to COVID life. Alright well, I'm Dani Devesto and today April
6th, 2021, I have the pleasure of speaking with Stacey Gardner. And Stacey,
thank you so much for being here and participating in this project, I really
appreciate it once again. I was hoping before we start talking about your
experiences with PFAS, [Per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances] you could tell me
where you live or where you're from?
SG: Sure. So, I am from West Michigan, I grew up here. Upon graduating high
school, I ended up getting married and my husband joined the military so we
traveled around the country beforeーI eventually joined the military as well. Once
I completed my service, I came back to West Michigan and have concerted my
career here. And then,ーI currently live officially in Comstock Park, but it's really
Plainfield Township just outside of Rockford.
DD: How long have you been in Plainfield Township?
SG: Since April 2015.
DD: So, it must not be too bad of a place, you've been there for a while.
Both: [Laugh]

1

�SG: Yeah it's actually really great, we love where we live. It’sー feels like it's out
in the country, but Meijer is only a mile away. So we have access [DD laughs] to
anything we might need whenever we want it.
DD: [Laughs] Yeah Meijers has everything. [SG laughs] So you're pretty much
set there. Alright so I am wondering, could you please tell me a story about your
experience with PFAS or with PFAS in your community?
SG: Sure. So, when we moved to our current home, we purchased it from a
couple who have lived there for 57 years. And they were in their 80’s and they
were getting ready to move to a retirement community. So, it was this great little
homestead that they had built, I mean it- it’s beautiful, it has very mature plants, it
was everything we wanted and it was just the right size for us.
So, when we got the notification in the mail that PFAS had been found in our
well water, honestly we weren’t really that upset by it because we figured that the
people that lived in it before us were still very active in their 80’s, and if they
have been drinking this water for the last 40 years then apparently it couldn’t have
been too bad, because it didn’t affect them, it didn’t affect their children. So, all of
them were all very active and healthy and didn’t have any history of unusual
medical issues.
So, we got this and we thought well, that’s probably not a big deal people might
be overreacting. It wasn’t until it came out in the news that things were actually
really not good for so many families. There were a lot of other health issues and
kinda just some of the stories you would hear, you know, wasn’t our experience.
So that's when we started to get a little bit more worried about, well maybe this
isn’t a good thing and maybe we do have something to be concerned about with
the levels in our water and, you know, how it might be affecting us in the long
term.
When the state came to our house to test our water we got our results for the first
time, we were actually really excited to get that information and to find out that
our levels were under 20, I think, which, compared to some of the friends we had,
their levels were over 500, 600. And, you know, they had children with congenital
anomalies who have been drinking this water, you know, forever and they really
suffered from it. So, we saw first hand what can happen when you have this kind
of exposure of long term to these chemicals. But our exposure was actually pretty
limited time wise and with the limited amount in our water.
So, we were solicited by a couple of attorneys to join some class action lawsuits,
and we didn’t feel, for ourselves, that was anything we wanted to do. Because we

2

�didn’t feel we were harmed anymore than somebody who maybe didn’t identify
PFAS in their drinking water because it's really iniquitous. I mean, most people
have this exposure just in their daily lives and so looking at it from where we
were at, just with our water, we felt like it wasn’t the right thing to do. But we
absolutely know that there are those who have been more involved in this and
more impacted and didn’t feel that a class action lawsuit was out of the question,
it just wasn’t the right choice for us. So, that has really been how we’ve looked at
this, is trying to make sure that our lives were impacted as little as possible by
everything that’s going on.
Knowing that, other people really have a lot to deal with, so we feel very lucky to
be where we are at. And we actually are quiteー thankful to Wolverine for, you
know, installing the whole home water filtration system and paying for all of that.
I know that it's something they obviously should be doing, but were actually glad
that, in this way, they were corrective in resolving the issue. So, I'm not looking
forward to hooking up to township water at all, I don’t want to do that. [laughs] I
would be fine keeping my well water with the water filtration system but it
doesn’t look like we're gonna have that choice, so.
DD: Why do you prefer well water? Just curious, as someone who is on city
water. [laughs]
SG: [chuckles] Yeah so, I know people who have Plainfield Township water and
there were a lot of issues with it. There's a lot of unusual smells and discoloration,
a lot of pressure issues. Andー the source of the township water is also highly
questionable. And so, to me it doesn’t make sense to just go from one
contaminated source to another while introducing all these other variables to the
water system. Where I feelー and this probably isn’t true, but that we have a little
bit more control if we have our own well and we know that this source of the
water is local, is right there in our yard and we know who our neighbors are and
what might be happening to the water source, as opposed to some of the other
chemical dumps [laughs] that are close to the township water sources, so.
DD: Sure, absolutely, that sounds totally logical and reasonable. And it sounds
like from what you are saying you have reallyー you feel like you have been
really lucky in a lot of the conversations and issues that are happening.
SG: Yeah, yeah we do. We ended up joining the MiPEHS [Michigan PFAS
Exposure and Health Study] study through the state of Michigan. Because we’re
really interested in getting those individual lab results to see what our levels of
3

�PFAS are in our system and some of the other markers they’re testing for. So, we
figured, while we’re notー you know the most active community members on this
topic, at least we can help out some way by joining the study and having them use
our information as somebody who had pretty minimal exposure as a comparison
to those who had a lot more exposure.
DD: Can you remind me, when did the state first start? When did they reach out
to you to do the testing that you referenced earlier, the testing that you were really
excited about? Do you remember?
SG: I believe that it wasー late in 2017 [Unclear]
DD: Ish?
SG: Yeah I think that was about the time. I had a friend who had previously
worked for Varnum Law and they were one of the firms that were soliciting for
the class action lawsuit. And so, I remember reaching out to her at my former
employer and saying who is this attorney? [DD laughs] Do you know him? Is he
legit or is he just looking for a buck? So, [laughs] so that’s what I think it was
about that time.
DD: So, with the health study that’s going onー what's coming down the pipe for
that? Anything for you all? Or anyー forget when that study is supposed to be
concluded. Do you know?
SG: It’s several years, it’s longitudinal. I want to say it’s 3 to 5 years. No, I think
it's 6 years because we get our blood tested 3 times. Once every 2 years. So they
are doing another study right now, related to the CoronaVirus Vaccine and how
that might impact your response if you have these higher levels of PFAS in your
system. But unfortunately, we couldn’t participate in that because we’ve already
been vaccinated. And so, I am hopeful in the next 6 years though, they will have
additional sub-studies related to the MiPEHS research that we can also participate
in. So, I hope they can continue to keep contacting us with those opportunities.
DD: Yeah. One more question from me. Do you have any concernsー or I say,
what concerns if any do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward?
SG: [Long pause] I thinkー itー where we liveー we have 1 acre of land and it
backs up to a trust, a family trust that has over 800 acres of undeveloped woods
and lakes right behind our house and that backs up to another 500 acres of
4

�privately owned woods that are also undeveloped with lakes and the water stream.
And so, that is right where the house street dump site was. So, it’s really on the
other sides of one of the lakes that’s back in those woods.
And theー we have an arborist who helps us take care of all of our plants and
trees, and he has been really involved environmentally with looking at the
forensics of the plants and the trees in the area. He can walk through the woods
and identify when a tree maybe has had unusual mutations due to chemical
exposure, and it's made me really think about, as I’m walking through the woods
through the trails back there; what's happened to all the wildlife? We have
rattlesnakes back there, there's eagles, there’s amazing owls, and all kinds of
different crazy things that you wouldn’t think are so close to such an urban area,
but they’re all out there.
Andー it’s nice to know that we as humans are going to be okay because we can
filter the water, we can do all these extra things, we can watch the products that
we buy and see if they have limited PFAS or no PFAS in them at all. But, you
know, there's the animals that are there and they don’t have that choice. They’re
out there in the water, you know, drinking it, swimming in it. Theyーand what is
that doing ecologically to our neighborhood and how does that affect it and, you
know, I justー it really bothers me to think about that because they didn’t ask for
it and they’ve had generations of their own little animal families having this
exposure and having it built up in their system, and does that impact make them
really different compared to some of the other sites where, you know, the
Michigan rattlesnakes are more populated and is itー how mutated are the ones
we have here? I just think that would be a really interesting thing to consider
because they need more help from humans right now in order to survive, so.
That’s what I think is my main concern. [laughs] As opposed to people. People
can take care of themselves.
DD: [Laughs] We try don’t we?
Both: [Laugh]
DD: Sometimes we’re better at it than some others. I think those are really
interesting questions and it sounds like you live in a really beautiful area.
SG: It is absolutely beautiful, we are so lucky to be where we’re at.
DD: Well, is there anything else that you’d like to add that we haven’t touched on
today or anything that you want to go back to that youー feel like you didn’tー I
5

�don't knowー that you forgot something or anythingー before we end is there
anything else you like to touch on or go back to?
SG: [Long pause] I don’tー I don’t think so. I don’t think so. Although, there was
one very interesting item in the MiPEHS study that they are looking at. My
husband and I are vegetarian, and we haven’t eaten meat in almost 10 years. Soー
I think that’s good for us, but within the study they are looking at people who
hunt and fish locally that eat the animals around here that may have had that
exposure. And so they're still looking at how that is affecting, kind of just, the life
cycle of everything. And I think that’s gonna be a really interesting outcome,
when they get to that point. And it’ll also be interesting, we do eat a lot of local
fruits and vegetables from the farmers markets, to see, you know, could that have
impacted us because we eat so many fruits and vegetables grown locally. You
know, what’s in the plants that we’re eating? Is it there? And could that actually
be increasing our exposure in ways that we haven’t considered before? So, I’m
hopingー maybe in many years [laugh] that they’ll have that information
available. We can understand better howー even though we are trying to make
healthy choices it might have backfired on us and they’re not as healthy as we
thought.
DD: Yeah, that study is gonna have, hopefully, have a lot of information. A lot of
really interesting information. Yeah.
SG: Yeah I hope so
DD: We’re all anxiously waiting for it.
Both: [Laugh]
DD: Alright well, thank you so much Stacey for taking the time to share your
story and your experiences with me today. I’m gonna stop the recording now.
SG: Okay.
[Recording stopped]

6

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                <text>Dudley Hoare Garland served as an artillery officer in the Ninth Infantry Division during World War II. Assigned to Battery A, 26th Field Artillery Regiment, which normally supported the 39th Infantry Regiment, Garland eventually became its commanding officer, and then moved to the staff of the divisional artillery when promoted to the rank of Major. Garland landed with his unit in North Africa and served in North Africa, Sicily, France, Belgium and Germany. He was assigned to return to the US in March, 1945, and while there, he visited the office of his brother George in New York City, and recorded some of his experiences on his brother’s office Dictaphone. The original recording was not preserved, but George’s daughter, Kent Garland McKay, had the transcript, which she has shared with us for posting to this archive. This file also includes information given to Garland by his former commanding officer, Lt. Col. Lewis Lockett, when Garland visited him in a hospital in 1943. The transcript covers a variety of topics, including having his ship sunk off the coast of Algeria, fighting in Tunisia, Sicily, Normandy, Belgium and Germany, relationships with other officers and civilians, meetings with high ranking generals and political figures, and different aspects of daily life in the countries where he was stationed.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Curly Garner
Length: 33:19
(00:11) Background Information and Training
•
•
•
•
•

Curly tried to enlist when he was 17 years old, but was rejected due to medical problems
He went to work for a construction company
While he was working construction in San Francisco, California, he enlisted in the Coast
Guard
At that time the Coast Guard was part of the Navy
Curley trained at Government Island in Alameda, California

(3:06) Deployment
•
•
•
•
•
•
•

Curley was sent to the Aleutian Islands and patrolled near the top of Japan during World
War II
He patrolled near the top of Japan
They would try and rescue planes that went down
Once they thought there was a sub, so they dropped depth charges
There was a flash back that ignited some oil and a man from the engine room died of
burns
Sometimes they had to go into a harbor because the seas would get to rough
Curly thought it was exiting to drop depth charges

(7:49) Conditions
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•

The weather was bad all of the time, it was hazy, dark, windy and cold
An officer jumped into the rough sea to save 3 men that had washed off a ship and
received a medal for it
Curly wrote letters home to pass time and keep in touch
They always had coffee, but sometimes had to eat cold sandwiches because it was too
rough to cook
He didn’t have any pressure or stress
They could watch movies aboard the ship
Curly went to a USO show while at port
They could visit the Army bases

(18:00) End of the War

�•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•

Curly took a 30 day leave after boot camp
He was supposed to go Japan, but got a position as a storekeeper
Curly was discharged in San Francisco
His duty during the war was to relay commands from the captain during his service
After his discharge he did electric, heating, and plumbing
Curly worked at a grocery store
He then went to work as a postmaster until he retired
Curly still keeps in touch with a couple of his friends from the war
He belongs to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, the American Legion, and the American
Veteran Association
Curly thinks “war is hell but it is necessary”
The service broadened his perspective of the world, was a good experience, and made
him mature

�</text>
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Boring, Frank</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Grand Valley State University Veterans History project
Interviewee’s name: Gerald Garner
Length of Interview: (00:30:21)
Interviewed by: James Smither
Transcribed by: Madison Vander Lugt
Interviewer: We’re talking today with Gerry Garner of Bridgman, Michigan and the
interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History
Project. Okay, Gerry, start us off with some background on yourself. And to begin with,
where and when were you born?”
We just talked about that, West Branch, Michigan
Interviewer: “Oh, but we weren’t on tape. Now we’re on tape.”
Oh, now we got to get it on tape. Yeah, West Branch, Michigan.
Interviewer: “Okay, and what year”
That was 1945. May 25th was…
Interviewer: “No, when were you born?”
When was I born? May 25th of 1927
Interviewer: “Twenty-seven, yes. As opposed to forty-five, okay. And what was your family
doing for a living at that time?”
*(00:00:47)*
Dad was a jeweler and a watch repairman; mother tested eyes. Well, they had an aunt, her
mother’s sister, who’d go along with them. She lost her husband. Their dad, Marcellus Graves,
had a jewelry store. Sold watches, fitted and repaired watches and he taught a lot of that to his
kids. In fact, he taught my dad while dad was still working on the farm north of Vassar. This is
all in Vassar, Michigan that he learned how to repair watches. And so he worked for 2 years with
his dad farming. He said he didn’t want to be a farmer. So they got a loan of money from him

�and all went up to West Branch and bought out a business that Cassius Graves, mother’s uncle,
had been running. And they had that store there till they passed away.
Interviewer: “Okay, so you managed to keep the store during the ’30s and the
Depression?”
*(00:01:53)*
Wasn’t easy. Jewelry wasn’t a good thing to be into then. And we were just handed Northern
Power Company, start giving us electricity for the little fire, electric plants just outside of town.
And it was hardly enough power to run all the lights on a Saturday night, let alone do anything
else. And finally, it got bought out by Consumers Power which had a bigger grid and they
needed somewhere place to show their electrical equipment; stoves, refrigerators, wash
machines. Didn’t have dryers, they had wash machines, they had things like that. So, he rented
them half the store and then agreed to collect half their light bills for them and that got people
coming into the store. Plus they had this service man’s desk there and dad had, during the ‘teens,
had been infatuated with cars. So I think he got a different car about every year when you can
buy them for about four or five hundred dollars. And he’d run a taxi service because people
would come in on the train, getting there by car on the roads that they had in those days wasn’t
very good. But these salesmen would come in and need local transportation so he and a couple
other fellows rented out their services as a cab driver. So he did quite a bit of that in the early
years and in the process...well actually, he had one friend that was a mail deliverer who got sick
and he’d run his mail route for him for a while. So he learned a lot where the farmers were and
this was invaluable when he was working for the power company because they didn’t have a
radio then to call in and say who’s out now. And in those days if you had lightning anywhere you
had outages. And the fellow would go to a farmer had a phone, which they did some of them
have phones, and he’d call in: Well, who’s out now? and Dad would say Oh, this group of
farmers are out. and they knew right away where the automatic switches were so he was a big
asset to them. So he lived, that was middle thirties somewhere when he started that, it was
certainly the depression time. When he died in ‘57 they tried...well I got involved because
mother and dad said this eye testing business, being an optometrist is a good deal. So I really
didn’t ever have any other thoughts of what I was going to be doing. So when I got out of service
I immediately go to the closest school we had for optometry was in Chicago. It was that Northern
Optic, Northern Illinois School of Optometry and they said, we can’t take you; we usually handle
sixty-five students a year coming in and we got four hundred and some coming in with a G.I. Bill
coming behind them. He says you could take this basic schooling in the Freshman year is just
science classes, so take that locally. So I went down to Bay City and into the community college
there and there’s where I got my first year of schooling with a lot of physics classes and a lot of
labs in the afternoon which interfered with my playing basketball.

�*(00:05:21)*
Interviewer: “Alright, that’s getting really far ahead of the story so let’s kind of rotate back
here. We talked about how your family kind of got through the ‘30s and basically, your
mother had a job and your father…”
It took both of them to run the store.
Interviewer: “And then he ran the store and then did all these other things along the side
to find ways to kind of get by.”
*nods* To get by.
Interviewer: “Alright, now when Pearl Harbor happens, you’re still pretty young, fourteen
or whatever.”
Yeah, I remember their first news coming in over their radio about that. And that was pretty
awesome that, in fact, we suspected FDR had been helping England right along with land lease
stuff and we were pretty much isolationists over here. We thought that was all somewhere else.
We often wondered if they actually had an inkling that this raid was going to happen and let it
happen just to get us stirred up so we’d get into the fight.
Interviewer: “Yeah, that’s an off-camera conversation, research that one, but anyway so it
happens...did you assume at the time that the war would be over before you would be old
enough to be in it or did you not think about that?”
You know, I didn’t think that far ahead, didn’t know where this atomic experimenting was going
on. I had a cousin that was fourteen years older than I that had gone into the Army and he’d
spend a lot of time in the Philippines. And he got jungle rot on his feet and was in the hospital
when his outfit moved and was ready to invade Okinawa and so he kind of missed an event that
took out about half the guys in his group. When he got there, they were already established and
they were trying to get the Japs out of their holes in the ground on the northern part of the island.
*(00:07:26)*
Interviewer: “Alright, we’re going to go back to you. So basically, Pearl Harbor happens
and, I mean, it’s something of a shock to the system at that point. And then did life change
in your community once the war started or did things stay pretty much the same?”

�I would say so. We had a local oil business. We had oil we found underneath our town and in the
area, we had our own refinery. My brother was working as a gauger for the Simmer Oil
Company. So that was a deferred kind of thing and many people work in the oil business one
way or the other. Many of them drove clear to Flint which was a hundred miles every day with a
carload to work in one of the plants down there. Of course, they stopped making cars for about
two years from ‘42 to ‘44. Dad was on the rationing board so he had to decide who can have how
much, how many gallons of gas and really pass around to people that extra and helped out. It
wasn’t too much of a problem getting the gas but the schools couldn’t use buses for out of town
sports stuff and we had to borrow theirs to drive us. Tires were pretty new. They had had this ‘40
Chevy engine rebuilt before they got through because stuff didn’t last in those days like they do
now. I had a big victory garden two different years that was...everybody who had anywhere to
raise stuff would have a garden of some kind. Yeah, I would say the whole community to run a
total war on two parts of the world was a total effort.
*(00:09:20)*
Interviewer: “Alright, now as the war goes on and you get older, there’s the prospect now
that you could get drafted once you turn eighteen in ‘45. So how did you deal with the
prospect of service? You talked about this off-camera, but now we’re doing it on.”
I guess I didn’t think about not going in. I didn’t have other than my eyesight needing glasses
which prevented me from volunteering. I’d already worked a couple months with the navy to get
some kind of schooling.
Interviewer: “Can you explain that? What it means, you worked with the navy to get
schooling?”
Yeah, while Dad and his brother-in-law were in the wholesale business, finding out what kind of
goods were sellable, I went into the navy recruiting place and I talked to him then. And I think I
mist have had about three visits with him in the process of passing the written test for the radar
technician training. And then finding out that I couldn’t volunteer and had to wait until the 25th
of May when I signed up for the draft. I don’t know if you can sign up before you’re eighteen or
not cause that’s when I was eighteen, it was the 25th of May in ‘45. And the fighting in Europe
was done and it wasn’t couple months later that we dropped the bombs on Japan and that was
done.
*(00:10:59)*
Interviewer: “Okay, now why did you pick the navy?”

�Well, living in trenches and stuff didn’t appeal to me. At least they had good food and a place to
eat even if the ship now got knocked out underneath you then that’s where the bad part starts.
Interviewer: “Alright, and then initially you were interested in radar and being a
technician?”
Not particularly, it was the only schooling. I was interested in some kind of schooling that I was
in. My son...I don’t know if I can divert to another member of the family…
Interviewer: “Yup!”
*(00:11:33)*
...My oldest son was born in ‘51 so he becomes eighteen sometime in the ends of ‘68. And
Vietnam was going on and Vietnam was not a popular subject, in fact, some of the young fellows
were thinking about escaping to Canada to avoid it. And my brother and I had quite a
conversation talking him out of that and then I said: You go get some schooling at one of the
services and by the time you get the schooling done, the Vietnam issue will be settled. And he
wanted to be an optometrist and fill in for when I quit. They had for three years he could be an
optician. He was one that runs the lab and fills the prescriptions for the optometrist or whoever
tested the eyes. So he went out to Aurora...he, first of all, sneaked out and got married to his
girlfriend and then took her with him to Aurora, Colorado where he spent two or three months
learning the business. Then he spent the rest of his three years in Fort Benning, fitting glasses.
Interviewer: “Alright, so we kind of go back up to you. So you’ve kind of decided, okay,
you’re interested in the navy and essentially what’s happening here is you try to enlist
when you were seventeen but they didn’t let you because of your eyesight?”
No. No, I didn’t say I did anything until after I was eighteen. I wasn’t really going to go ahead of
time.
Interviewer: “Alright, but you were talking to them before you were eighteen?”
The way it worked out, by the time I was ready, I was up to eighteen then on the 25th. And that’s
the end of high school so I got my chance to graduate even went and played a final tennis
tournament down in Kalamazoo. My buddy and I, we were tennis players.
Interviewer: “Ok, so now, end of May, you’ve signed up and now where do you go for your
basic training?”

�*(00:13:41)*
Well, we went first to boot camp in Great Lakes.
Interviewer: “Okay, and what was that like?”
Well, it was...I was trying to describe it as just a hodgepodge of different things to keep us busy.
It took a while to get to 126 of us and we’re all going to do the same thing. And they were put
over in Camp Downey which is over on the West side of the railroad tracks cause Great Lakes is
a big place. But we did an awful lot of drilling and we did a lot of manual alarms with the rifles. I
think I got with the food I was getting and the exercise I was getting, I never got tougher or
stronger than I was at that time. We had firefighting, we had learning flag signals, we learned
Morse code, we went down on the lakefront and a couple different times and shot the aircraft,
30’s and 50’s, firefighting on a ship; we never did go on a rifle range. So I guess that was what
we were filled, it was abbreviated from a normal boot camp cause we were going on to schooling
then.
Interviewer: “Okay, how did you already have your schooling picked out?”
Where I was going to go?
Interviewer: “What your schooling was going to be.”
The schooling was just radar technician training.
Interviewer: “Okay, how easy or hard was it for you to adjust to life in the military? Going
off being at camp”
I didn’t have any trouble with that.
Interviewer: “Alright, and about how long did the boot camp last?’
*(00:15:33)*
When did we go into Chicago? That had to be September or October, I think, something like
that. But I was starting the primary school in Chicago.
Interviewer: “Okay, and so at primary school, so where were you then? Was that the high
school in Chicago?”

�Yeah, that was a high school that wasn’t being used as a school anymore. The navy had the use
of it. So we had the barracks set right up in the gym. We had bunks that were three bunks high.
Living on the top one was not any fun. It’s a long ways to the floor if you walk in your sleep. I
remember Wednesday nights were off, we could leave the base. So we’d go down to Halsted
Street and even in those days all of the stores had screens, metal screens, over the windows to
prevent breaking in, We went to a malt shop there and that’s when I learned about banana malts.
So we had very often got a vanilla malt with a banana ground up into it and when the Japan quit
there was quite a celebration downtown, I guess we didn’t observe directly, but we saw pictures
of the crowds on the streets and the what all was going to celebrate that we finally got the stupid
war over with.
Interviewer: “Alright, now, what did your training there actually consist of? What were
you learning while you were there?”
*(00:17:16)*
Well, the basics of radar and electrical systems involved in creating the signals and interpreting
them when they come back. So this was pretty much about generating electrical circuits,
batteries, and the power source for radar. We were just going on to the next schooling to get a
better application when they decided they didn’t need to train us in that anymore. And we were
really concerned about what was going to happen to us because we figured we’d be on a ship’s
company on some base somewhere. Maybe way out in Midway or something like that, we’d be
stuck for a while, didn’t work that way.
Interviewer: “Ok, so where did you go next?”
Well, we went back to Great Lakes before they decided what to do with us. And I can’t quite
remember how long we were there. We did get on a troop train that got us out to San Francisco
and then I told you about going from Treasure [...] Island, a year in [Hawaii?], and then down to
Alameda and that’s where a lot of ships were stationed. We had an aircraft carrier sitting beside
us. You get the tide working out there, you maybe go up in the morning going up like that on the
walkway and then next time you come back you’re going like that. And I saw, while I was there,
I saw one of the four-engine flying boats that flew from San Fransisco out to Honolulu and
watched one take off. You never thought with all the load they had on that the bay wasn’t big
enough for them to take off, terrible racket. That first time they said they were sending people
back to their place of origin which would be Great Lakes or Maine. But they finally decided to,
they were so overwhelmed that Great Lakes with dischargees that they would let us get
discharged out there and then they’d give us five cents a mile for us to get home. Before that
happened, my buddy that I was with had an uncle out there that had some kind of a mining
company. He also had a nice looking daughter and so we were going to get him to give us letters

�saying we had promise of employment out there so we could stay out there and get discharged.
Well, that never reached a conclusion so they let us go up to Stockton and get discharged. They
tried to talk us into upping but we couldn’t quite see that.
*(00:20:02)*
Interviewer: “But, what were they offering in terms if you re-upped; what would they give
you?”
Oh boy, I can’t remember that. I can’t remember that. Wasn’t in the picture so we didn’t listen
very hard.
Interviewer: “Alright so how long did you actually spend in Alameda?”
In Alameda?
Interviewer: “Yeah.”
It’d be less than two months.
Interviewer: “Okay, and what kind of job did you have there?”
Well, they assigned me to one of the departments on the ship. Let me think now; I did some
painting down in some of the holes. I guess that must have been before I was assigned in the
carpenter’s shop. But we used to have a priming paint that was very good to stop rust. And I
remember going way down in the bow, or in the crap quarters, and we had these little power
units pumping air down and our air up and even then when you’d come out you were drunk
cause the smell of paint was not very good for you. I guess I did some of that at first until I got
assigned to this carpenter’s shop and I was just inventory and the tools I had and I had some stiff
to smear on that made a coating to keep them from rusting.
*(00:21:28)*
Interviewer: “Ok, so you’re on the Seaplane tender and, that’s the type of ship you were
on?”
That’s what they called it. I never knew much more about what it did.
Interviewer: “Ok, can you describe the ship physically?”

�Yeah, it was a lot like a destroyer but quite a bit smaller. I don’t even remember what armament
it had on it cause I wasn’t involved in that. We had heard from fellows coming back from the
Pacific which maybe shouldn’t be talked about. But they said they realized how much delay they
would have of getting out because of what they had to do with the ship to decommission it or
preserve it. And they started throwing things, things disappeared overboard so they didn’t have
to do a lot of what we were doing. So out there somewhere on the bottom of the Pacific before
you get into the bay at San Francisco there’s a lot of war materials setting
Interviewer: “Something that someone did not want to inventory.”
Didn’t want to spend the time it was going to take to do it. They wanted to go home.
Interviewer: “Now were they decommissioning the ship you were on or was this just
regular maintenance that you were doing?”
No, I assume that was going in storage. I don’t think there was any need for it to go out anymore.
So I assume it was mothballed as they say.
*(00:22:48)*
Interviewer: “Okay, now did you get much time to sort of go off base in these places? In
San Francisco or anywhere else?”
Out there, yeah, we had a small boat that we could take as a taxi and could run across to
downtown San Francisco so I remember going over there quite a few times. As I say we had a, a
friend and I, this people that we said couldn’t get to work for us. We were up in… uh, what’s the
name of the college town on the north side of the bay? Anyway, it was a very nice residential
area that they lived in. It used to be a great place to walk around cause I wasn’t too used to the
smell of night-looming jasmine for example is quite overwhelming at night. And the San
Francisco Bay with everything being hills around it, the lights on the bay and everything is just a
beautiful situation. You can see the lights on the San Francisco from across where we were.
Berkley is the name I wanted to say was up that place and it was just a beautiful sight. In fact, I
took my wife out there and we spent two weeks later on exploring San Francisco and northern
California.
*(00:24:23)*
Interviewer: “Alright, so you said the job thing didn’t happen?”

�The job thing?...No, never got that needed because, I said, we’re overwhelmed back at Great
Lakes and you were picking up discharge wherever you want so Stockton happened to be the
place we went to.
Interviewer: “Okay, and then this takes you back to when you basically decided to go for
optometry school. You had gone to the place in Illinois and they had told you go off and
take some lower-level classes first…”
I could take that right in Bay City.
Interviewer: “Okay, and then did you then go back to that school or did you go somewhere
else?”
Oh, yeah. Yeah, even before I had my grades even to me in Bay City they were ready to start the
summer term over there.
Interviewer: “Okay”
And I was quite sure my grades were quite suitable. I never had any trouble with grades in
school.
Interviewer: “Alright, so then you went on to be an optometrist then?”
Right. I spent forty years back in West Branch. I met after, John and I both went took the state
board when we got back in late 49 and passed the board. So he was going to be with his dad in
Standish and I was going to take over my mother’s part of the business. We always had rooms
built in the building but behind or above the store because it took both mother and dad all the
time to take care of the store. People in those days didn’t plan on eye tests unless you had a
problem. So invariably if they come in and say they need their eyes checked, there was
something wrong. And most of them because they just needed some kind of glasses. And people,
when they got glasses, didn’t get them from mother; that wasn’t something women did. They got
them from the dad. Mother worked for the dad so she had that against her. Now they had two
sons and they went there in 1910 and had their first son in 1912 and another in 1915 and I didn’t
come along until 27. So those two boys were like uncles to me more than other. And the oldest
one, he took county normal. Do you know what county normal is? In high school, there was a
class for the seniors. I think it was just seniors. They’re preparing them for teaching in their oneroom schools and every township had to have and that was mostly the source for girls. I don’t
know how many fellows took it but he went on to Central Michigan then and got his degree for
teaching and math and music. And when he went to be in high school for his first job, I went
with him for first grade, So that’s how much difference it was between my oldest brother and

�myself. And I wasn’t going to that school. I was really spoiled. But when I went, I loved it. I
loved it. I loved to have the kids to play with.
*(00:27:30)*
Interviewer: “Alright, okay now…”
I didn’t mention something we did in shop.
Interviewer: “Okay.”
It was to make scale size model planes, painted in black, of German planes, French planes,
British planes, Japan planes, and our own planes. So that was supposed to be, somewhere they
used them for plane spotting, for training.

Interviewer: “Right, for training recognition of aircrafts. So let’s…”
Yeah, we had a booth on top of the community building and somebody was in it all the time
watching for planes because in those days somebody had the idea that Germans were capable of
flying over top of the world to northern Canada, where there isn’t anybody, and set up a
refueling station so they could come down through the upper part of the country, bombing. And
the straights were there, Saginaw, Bay City, Flint, Pontiac, Detroit, Chicago. All kinds of
industrial power in the middle of the country that we needed to protect. And we were there trying
to watch for airplanes that weren’t supposed to be there.
*(00:28:40)*
Interviewer: “Okay, now did you actually do, did you have air-raid wardens or blackouts
or things like that or did you not do that in a place like West Branch?”
No, I don’t remember having that type of thing.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now, you have kind of an, almost a snafu kind of experience in the
service, in the sense that you went around to all of these places and didn’t spend too much
time doing too much. But, what do you think you took out of that or did you learn anything
from the process of being in the military?”
Oh, got me out of a small town. Fed me, housed me, gave me a chance to go and explore
Chicago quite a bit with the USO and generally learned that Chicago is a tough place to live in.

�Of course, I spent years in optometry school there. Met a few girls, learned to dance at the
Aragon and Trianon and went and first time I saw professional basketball players was there. And
a fellow that was from Minnesota that was one of the bigger guys there, Mike...if only I could get
his name for it, I was overwhelmed by the size of those guys. But I did see some of the world in
that respect that I don’t see in my little town of West Branch.
Interviewer: “Alright, well thanks for interesting stories. So thanks very much for coming
in and sharing today.”
Okay.
*(00:30:21)*
End of Interview.

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                  <text>Smither, James&#13;
Boring, Frank</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: Korean War
Interviewee name: Donald Gary
Length of Interview: 1hour 1minute
Pre-Enlistment (00:45)
•

Childhood (00:50)
o Gary was born in Rochester, New York in 1930. (01:10)

•

Family (01:11)
o Grew up with 4 brothers and 1 sister. His father worked first as a landscaper but
when the Depression came along he ended up as a foundry worker. (01:57)
During this time his father had an unfortunate incident happen while Gary was in
the service. Between 53’ and 54’ a 750 pound piece of 2 by 10 foundry material
fell on his leg and shattered it. (02:40)

•

Education (03:10)
o Gary finished high school and then attended Davenport University. Discusses
how he moved out to Michigan and why he did so. (03:18)

•

Background to military service (04:55)
o Gary devotes quite a bit of attention to his other brothers’ military experiences.
One brother served with the National Guard of which he went to the Pacific.
(05:15)


Another brother was in the 101st Division in the Battle of Bastogne of
which he describes briefly. (05:57)



Also mentions that both survived the war and what happened to each of
them afterwards. (07:08)



A 3rd brother who had been in the Air Force went down to Panama and did
photography work. (08:09)

o Gary didn’t give much thought of serving until the war in Korea broke out.
(08:53) Joined the military voluntarily on December 9th, 1950. (09:04) He
mentions that he did not attend basic which was located at Lackland Air Force
Base, Texas but instead was held in Rochester, New York until January. On

�January 2nd he and 2 others were flown to the base which was located near San
Antonio, Texas, of which upon arriving he had the option of choosing which
branch he could join. (09:40)
Enlistment/Basic Training (09:48)
•

Why he joined (09:58)
o Joined the air force because he always had wanted to be an air force pilot. (10:07)
o Discusses his first impressions of flying in an airplane since he had never flown in
his life before that time. (11:09)

•

Where he went and what company he served with (11:36)
o Briefly describes his first impressions of his training and of the instructors who
trained him. (11:50) Mentions that he adapted easily to basic training while others
got into trouble with girls. (12:50)


Discusses briefly what types of trouble and punishments new recruits got
into. (13:44)

o The men he trained with during his 3 week period there were both white and
black. The military at that time was desegregated. (14:31)


Brief history lesson on how the military had moved with the times where
as the state of Texas “was still fighting the Civil War.” (15:18)

o For a brief period during and after basic training he worked in the office in
Lubbock, Texas and describes his time there briefly. (16:05)


Discusses how he became qualified for his office position. (17:25)

Active Duty (18:05)
•

Where he went after basic training (18:06)
o Spent 8 months in Lubbock and expected to be shipped out to Korea at anytime.
(18:20)
o From there he spent some time in Wichita, Kansas. (19:07)


While in Wichita, for almost a year, he mentions how he met his wife and
that while there he served as a statistical specialist. Briefly describes his
responsibilities on base. (19:40)

�

Describes an encounter in some detail with a problematic sergeant who
was giving one of his black employees problems in the office. (21:58)



Also mentions how before he had come to the office there how relaxed the
atmosphere but then once he was there the office became so much more
efficient under his authority. (24:45)

o From Wichita, he spent a period of 3 months in Denver, Colorado taking a course
at a local university. (25:34)
o

•

Afterwards, he went back to Wichita for an extended period of time. (26:16)


While there, he talked with a friend who told him that he would soon be
shipped out to Ramstein Air Base, Germany with the 12th Air Force.
(26:45)



Before he heard that he was going to Germany he believed he was bound
for Korea all along. (27:23)

Germany (27:31)
o Background (27:32)


Gives a brief history background of the events of the Cold War and its
effects on Germany. (27:33)



Gary mentions that he was on the base defense team digging trenches and
practicing defensive measures. (27:40)



He was based at the 12th Air Force Headquarters Base at Ramstein,
Germany (28:00) Briefly describes the base he was stationed at in some
detail. (28:24)



He also mentions that the area and environment around Ramstein, this area
being around the Black Forest was very historic. (28:44)



According to his orders before he left for Germany he was supposed to
head to Wiesbaden, Germany but instead was ordered to Ramstein instead.
(30:32)



Briefly backs up and describes his November Atlantic crossing aboard a
bananas boat. Took 10 days to travel to Bremerhaven, Germany where he
boarded a train to get to his destination. (31:10)

�o While in Germany, he makes note of how the bigger German cities were repaired
fairly well while the smaller towns still showed signs of the affects of WWII.
(33:32)
o Gary would often when he went into town wheel and deal with many of the
German civilians. While on base, he mentions that Germans were responsible for
the cooking and the cleaning of the barracks. (34:46)
o During the German occupation, the U.S. dollars he possessed were converted to
Marks. (36:14)
o His main job while there his job was aircraft reporting which entailed compiling a
list of the condition of all aircraft belonging to the 12th Air Force. (37:34)
o Briefly mentions an incident of a CO-19 transport aircraft crashing in the Alps.
(38:39)
o Mentions that while in Wichita while being in charge of the record keeping that
he had maintained very good records. While in Germany however he didn’t do
any recordkeeping because it was handled by women in Germany. (40:44)
o Environment in the office (41:40)


Compared with his office experience in the U.S. to Germany he worked
with more women in Germany for a number of reasons which he details a
little a bit. (42:07)



Many of the men he worked with pressured him to become an officer of
which he didn’t agree to because it would mean prolonging his service
until age 65. (43:03)

o Briefly describes taking a military tour of Europe with a few of his buddies and
visiting the different American military bases around from Luxembourg down to
Rome, Italy. (44:33)
o Briefly mentions a story of a friend who could speak 5 languages and their time
with the USO while visiting Heidelberg. (47:28)
After the Service (49:10)
•

Returning Home (49:30)
o His military tour in Europe ended in December 1954. Gary mentions that he flew
home by airplane and landed in New York where his wife picked him up. (49:52)

•

Adjusting to Home (50:40)

�o After 14 months away, his wife was happy to see him. Mentions that he wasn’t
completed discharged until December 9th, 1954. (51:05)
o After arriving back, they went and lived in Rochester. (52:17)
o For the next 2 months, he and his wife went to the library and researched places to
live and finally decided on moving to Grand Rapids because it was well known
for its furniture. For Gary, he had always wanted to pursue a career in furniture.
(55:38)
o Attended Davenport University and upon graduating got a job working for Diesel
Equipment doing maintenance-type work (57:51)
o Briefly discusses his other career pursuits and attending Aquinas College studying
accounting. (59:26) Before long, he did some work in accounting.(59:45)
•

Reflection (59:54)
o Wraps up his interview by discussing what the military taught him about life and
people and the long-term benefits that it gave him. (1:01:21)

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Boring, Frank</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview Notes
Length: 45:56
Lawrence Millard Gary
WWII Veteran
United States Army; November 1942 to March 1946
Infantry
(0:00) Info
-

Born January 1st 1932 (Says 1992, later clarified as '32)
Lived in Wheaton, IL
Was registered for draft, but volunteered to enter early

(2:42) Training
Entered at Fort Grant, IL
BCT at Camp House, TX
Unit was F Co 341st Infantry Regiment (86th "Blackhawk" Div)
Received Additional mechanics training at Ft Benning, GA and Amphibious
training in CA
(9:14) Deployments
Embarked NY, NY to Le Havre, France.
Deployed to Metz
Part of 4-Man vehicle recon team ambushed at intersection; German fixed
positions with interlocking fields of fire; Officer KIA, Gary wounded - no citation.
Sent to the eagle's nest, entire formation recalled to the U.S., assigned to Camp
Grubbers, OK
Assigned to the Philippines, VJ Day in route, secured isolated pockets of
resistance in northern Luzon
(25:45) Conditions
-

Discusses disparities in conditions between Officers and Enlisted
Hispanics in his unit, no negroes (not his exact words)
Discussed Patton and Eisenhower
Discussed pay and habits
Married 1 1/2 years out of service

(42:56) Various photos and documents

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                    <text>ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW
GINGER GASCON
Women in Baseball
Born: Chicago, Illinois, 1931
Resides: Elk Grove Village, Illinois
Interviewed by: James Smither Ph.D, GVSU Veterans History Project, August 6, 2010,
Detroit, MI at the All American Girls Professional Baseball League reunion.
Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, February 10, 2011
Interviewer: “Ginger, can we start off by you telling us a little bit about your
background. Where and when were you born?”
I was born in Chicago in 1931.
Interviewer: “Did you grow up in Chicago?”
I did, I grew up in Chicago.
Interviewer: “What neighborhood did you live in?”
We lived in a few different neighborhoods, one on the west side of Chicago, but the one I
remember the best is the one near Wrigley field, near Hawthorn school. I think we
moved there when I was about eight or ten and we stayed there until I was eighteen.
Interviewer: “What did your family do for a living?”
My dad was a truck driver and he use to drive paper goods to northern Minnesota and
Michigan and come back and deliver down to the Chicago Tribune building. My mother
was a housewife and she was an Irish immigrant. 42:48
Interviewer: “Was your father able to keep that job through the thirties?”
Whatever he did he was on “Papa Works Again” and he use to bring home Blueberry pie
and whatever his main work was I don’t know, but that’s what it was to keep the fellas
going and that was good
Interviewer: “Jobs were not always easy at that point.”

1

�Not at that point.
Interviewer: “How did you get involved playing sports?”
I happen to be the only girl in the neighborhood of all boys and that was from age ten on,
so if I didn’t play with them, I wouldn’t be playing with anybody. I started out on the
playgrounds and I played ball there and I was pretty good. I was one of the better ones
that always went off to the division meeting and everything.
Interviewer: “Were you playing in organized leagues?”
No, remember I was ten or twelve years old, but I had an uncle who was a cop and he
was a policeman on the gate at Wrigley Field and I only had about a six block walk down
there. 43:46 When he would see me, he would say, “come on, get in”, so I got to watch
Phil Cavarretta, Andy Pafko and those fellas and I just kind of fell in love with it from
playing—we started out with sixteen inch and fourteen inch.
Interviewer: “So, you’re playing softball in the street?”
Playing softball
Interviewer: “You were there in 1945, the last time the cubs were in the World
Series?”
Yes, I think so, but I don’t remember going to that World Series.
Interviewer: “You might have been in school by then?”
Yes, I think I was in school.
Interviewer: “It might have been a little bit harder to get in.”
Yeah, but when I was in school during WWII, they use to let some of us out of school to
go out and collect tine and things during the day and that was kind of fun to go around
the neighborhood and do things like that. When I got one of my first jobs I was the only

2

�girls in that district with all boys that delivered newspapers and that was nice because
some of the boys were a little lazy and they would ask me to take their route for the day
and I would make a few dollars there and I kind of liked that. 44:47
Interviewer: “All right, now at what point did you start to play more organized
ball?”
Fifteen, sixteen and there was a team, they were all farm teams for this all American
league, and I played on the North Town Debs and there was the south group of girls that
played too and when they created the Sallies and the Colleens, I went with the Sallies and
some of my friends went with the Colleens and we toured the United States. I know
you’ve heard that before, all the various cities and states.
Interviewer: “Right, so let’s back up a little bit to that first stage. How did you
wind up joining that first team?”
Joining the first team? They picked you, they looked for the best athletes and they picked
you.
Interviewer: “How did they find you or where did they locate you?”
On the playgrounds, it started on the playgrounds in Chicago.
Interviewer: “So you weren’t playing in an organized softball league or anything
like that?” 45:44
I was on a girl’s team in Chicago, but it was just eighth graders or something like that.
Interviewer: “But they were actually scouting the neighborhoods to go find people.”
Scouting the neighborhoods or they would here about and go and ask the athletic
directors and we did tryout for that, that’s right, we did tryout for those farm teams.
Interviewer: “Once you’re on one of those teams do you just live at home?”

3

�You live at home and go out three or four nights a week and on the week-end and play
each other in various parks in the city.
Interviewer: “What did your family think about that?”
They didn’t mind, they liked it and I was always very active and I had my paper route
and everything. I had two younger sisters, so they kind of looked up to me because I
would take them out to places with me, to different and various places.
Interviewer: “All right, were they paying you at that point?”
Let me see, when is the first time I got paid? On the traveling team in 1949.
Interviewer: “So, the first level of team you’re just playing?”
Yeah, you’re a farm team and you just show up and play. 46:47 No money involved,
just your skill level and all that.
Interviewer: “So, did you do that for one year or two or?”
Probably two years, I played for two years.
Interviewer: “How do you get up to the next level?”
That’s when you tried out, they had tryouts for the All Americans and that’s when they
picked you again from that group, so that’s how some of us got in.
Interviewer: “Where were they doing the tryouts?”
At the various parks around—in Skokie, the tryouts were there and see, Wrigley Field
had already had all the girls back for the first stage and now this comes five years later
and then the coaches came and looked at us and picked and put us, after we traveled and
di that for the year, they picked us to come to whatever teams and you probably heard
that story from other girls. The balanced the teams by skill level and whatever they
needed. 47:48

4

�Interviewer: “So, what was the year then that you started playing with the traveling
teams?”
1949 and in 1950 I came back and played with Chicago for a year, underhand fast pitch
with the Bluebirds and then I went back in 1951 to the Grand Rapids Chicks and finally I
settled in and played another three years with the Bluebirds because I could hold a day
job and play ball and I had two salaries.
Interviewer: “The Bluebirds, was that a semi-pro softball team?”
It was a pro team also, you paid to get in and we got paid. I started out with that team at
about a hundred dollars a week and went up to a hundred and a quarter. See, the all
Americans was fifty five and seventy five, but holding the day job was the bonus because
you had a double salary and that’s when I started saving money for college.
Interviewer: “Let’s go back to the farm team experience. Were there basically just
two teams that played each other or were there more?”
There were four, but I can’t remember the other two. I remember the Debs and the—
you’ll hear it from one of the other ladies, the team she played on. She was a southsider
and I was a northsider. 48:54
Interviewer: “Did fans come to these games?”
Oh yeah, the parks were full every night. Are you familiar with Chicago Thillens
Stadium on Devon and Lincoln Ave? The Thillens check cashing trucks? I don’t know
if you remember seeing them running around? They sponsored us, so they gave us the
money for uniforms and people came into the park at night and I think they were paying a
quarter or something.
Interviewer: “How do things change then when you join the traveling team?”

5

�When you join the traveling team, that’s the fun. You know you’re traveling to different
cities and meeting different people and you’re on the bus singing at night. It’s just the
excitement and the camaraderie of having all these friends around you all the time. You
think about high school and when high school days were over, that’s who your friends
are. Most of them don’t go to college and we had that extended into our twenties and we
still meet. I can’t think of any other group of people who still meet from when they were
in their teens. I just think we have been terribly lucky in that manner. It’s been a
wonderful thing. 49:55
Interviewer: “I think the closest you get, maybe in some cases, is with military
veterans. Men who served in the same unit, they have reunions, but in a way it
parallels a little bit because it’s a distinctive experience more than just going to
school someplace.”
It’s a shared experience.
Interviewer: “Right, and you’re at that point in your life that you’re becoming who
you really are too. That’s a very consistent thing that we’ve had in this. Explain a
little bit for people who don’t know very much about it, how did the traveling team
thing work? Who was on it, what happened?”
There were scouts with the All American, Max Carey and those fellas, they would go out
to the major cities in America or the ones they decided they could get some interest in,
and they would talk to the Chamber of Commerce and their press men and their sports
people and they would arrange for us to come in at certain dates, and they did it very well
because they started out in Chicago and went down to Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas.
50:56 Crossed over to Virginia and finally got back to New York and over Pennsylvania,

6

�so it was just play a game or two, get on the bus and go to the next town and play a game
or two. On Sunday it was two games, we use to play two games on Sunday, but we
stayed in different hotels and met different people. I remember in Michigan, Battle
Creek, when these fellas would carry our luggage to the hotel, you know from the bus
into and up to our rooms, we played music because we liked the rhythm and blues music
and they use to hangout in the halls with us and that was a lot of fun. It was almost like
you were dating groups, but it wasn’t really.
Interviewer: “Did you go to New York City as part of that?”
Yes, we stayed in Newark, New Jersey and we got on the train. I don’t know if anyone’s
told you this, but we had Mirtha Marrero and Isabel Alvarez and it just so happened I had
Spanish in high school, so I was the only one that could talk to them a little bit, so I took
them on the train from Newark into New York. 51:57 We went to the Palladium
because Mambo was popular at the time and then we went to the Empire State Building
and of course once they saw the guys at the Palladium they were in a different kind of
world than the rest of us, so I left them to go to the john and said, “don’t move, I’ll be
back”, and when I came back they were gone. They were gone for hours and hours and I
had to call back to the chaperone and say, “I lost the girls, they left me”, and so I got back
on the train by myself and they finally showed up, but that was kind of harrowing
because I felt responsible for them, but I couldn’t control them. 52:36
Interviewer: “Where did you play in New York?”
We were playing in Newark, New Jersey and that was in 1949 and they played in New
York in 1950, they played in one of those fields.
Interviewer: “At some point they played in Yankee Stadium.”

7

�We didn’t, the 49ers didn’t, but the 50ers did.
Interviewer: “What other places you stopped at stands out in your memory or have
particular stories connected to them?” 53:03
When I think of Oklahoma, I think of the soil and the weather and how it was different
and some of the other states. Virginia, the natural bridge and the places I saw that I
wouldn’t have seen in my life, stood out to me. Ball playing, it was just exciting to play
at night and to have the fans come. They always hung around and wanted autographs,
but we couldn’t talk too long because we had to get to the bus and take our showers and
get onto the next bus. I can tell you a story about the Cuban girls when we would come
to the showers they wouldn’t shower with the rest of us, so they wanted to shower last
and they did. So, we’re sitting on the bus starving, hungry and we wanted to get moving
and they come lumbering along like this after making us wait forty-five more minutes.
Oh, you would say things to them, but you couldn’t say too much, but that was kind of
funny. Different cultures and different ways of getting things done. 54:09
Interviewer: “Did you always play each other or did you sometimes play local
teams?”
We always played each other when we were on tour because you took the girls that they
were going to use later on to see who worked out after these games and take up to the
other teams, so it was always each other and we never played outside of that.
Interviewer: “Aside from the Cubans, were there particular players in that group
who were particularly distinctive or were troublemakers or leaders or anything like
that?”

8

�Well, not any of that really, but different ones had different personalities. I don’t know if
you’re familiar with Maybelle Blair, there were girls like that, younger, that were very
funny and talked loud and did funny things. 54:57
Interviewer: “Now, was Toni Palermo in that group?”
Yes, she was in that group also, right.
Interviewer: “She would have been one of the youngest ones.”
Yes, she was maybe sixteen when I was seventeen or something.
Interviewer: “What did they do to look after you? You’re taking a group of teen
age, largely teenage, girls, I guess some of them were a little older, how did they look
after them?”
Well, the chaperones were always there. Wherever we stayed they were ever present in
the hotel and they just in general watched out for us because if some of these boys want
to take you out on a date or something, you would have to go through the chaperone.
That lightened up though because when I was in Grand Rapids one of the reporters from
the Grand Rapids Herald and I went out to dinner one night. His name was Scotty
something and I don’t remember the last name, but he was telling me about the morgue.
You know what the morgue is don’t you? Newspapers that they keep, so if somebody
dies they go into that file and pick it out, and that was something I never knew before and
something I learned from Scott. 56:00
Interviewer: “Now, does the traveling team season end before the regular one does?
Was it a shorter season or did you finish at the same time maybe, what do you
think?”
We finished in late August and what did our girls have, a 160 game schedule?

9

�Interviewer: “Something like that.”
It was something like that, but I don’t remember.
Interviewer: “The playoffs for the league were a little bit later than that. Would
any of the girls from the traveling teams be called up to the regular clubs or would
you just stay together the whole year?”
We stayed together the whole year and then they sent you to the club. No, they waited
until the season was over. They didn’t pull anybody out that I recall. We picked some up
on the road though; we picked up Sue Kidd in Choctaw, Arkansas.
Interviewer: “Was that a common thing? Would they try people out as they went
from town to town?” 56:57
I only remember that year picking her up as one particular person, but maybe they did,
maybe any of the girls that played in the fifties, maybe they picked up more than one.
Has anyone told you a story so far that they picked up someone?
Interviewer: “ I think there were some maybe they identified and may have joined
a little later. I think Sue Kidd did kind of get on the bus and go with them.”
She got on the bus and went with them, that’s absolutely right.
Interviewer: “Alright, they did that and once that season comes to an end—had you
finished high school yet or were you still in school?”
No, I hadn’t finished yet, but then you’d go back to school and once you were eighteen
and out, you went back two months to the job, if you had a job. Do you know what the
salaries for factory jobs were at the time?
Interviewer: “Nope”

10

�Forty a week—we got more playing ball, and some ladies will say they made more
money than their fathers. It’s kind of amazing isn’t it when you think of it? 57:56
Interviewer: “Although if you think of modern pro athletes in a lot of sports and so
forth, that seems less surprising, but then, baseball players were not paid as well as
football or anyone else.”
Well, back in the seventies, I knew a Jimmy French who was with the Washington
Senators when Ted Williams was the manager and these guys would get about fifteen a
day for meals when they were out and they all lived on hamburgers so they could save
money and it’s kind of interesting, I was down in Florida one time on vacation, and in a
bar. I came with two friends, and we wanted to go to the games, the spring training
games, and we found out where the fellas hung out, so we went in the bar and I was kind
of looking for Jimmy French because I had met him on the farm in Pennsylvania--Eastern
Ohio, right next to Pennsylvania and I said, “Anybody here know Jimmy French?” And
one of the guys said, “Hell, who doesn’t know Jimmy French? He’s the only one with a
masters degree in finance”. 59:00 He ended up working on the San Francisco stock
market. That was kind of rare I guess for athletes to be going to get a degree and then
playing ball, and they only had to play ten years to be pensioned, so every year—I don’t
know if he still gets ten thousand a year or what, but that was back from the early
seventies.
Interviewer: “Now we’re going to go back to your story. Did they want you to come
back the next year?”
Yeah
Interviewer: “But you decided not to.”

11

�I just decided I could make more money because I wanted to go to college and my family
didn’t have any money to send me, so—and I think because I’d had a paper route and I
was used to picking up spare money, I kind of knew how to do that, so when it was
available to me, it would be foolish not to take it, that’s the way I looked at it.
Interviewer: “So, you got the double salary while playing in Chicago and working,
right?”
Three years, right
Interviewer: “You did that in 1950 and then in 1951 you go back to the all
American?” 60:00
Yeah, I go back for a year because this team was moving on and another team didn’t
want to pick me up until the year after, so that’s what I did. It was because I was rookie
on this team and this team was the Chicago Queens, they won the championship that
year. I don’t know if you’ve heard of them. Have you heard of the Weaver sisters?
Interviewer: “Yeah”
They were on that team and I was the youngest one on the team and one was pitching and
one was playing shortstop. They could hit—they came out of New Orleans Jacks teams,
so I had people like that around me with high skill levels, and some of the best pitchers in
that league. Connie Wisnwiewski came to that league, and I know her because she came
to the Grand Rapids Chicks, and she got a higher salary than the rest. It was like three
hundred a week, which was very high and she made her own rules, she had a limousine
drive her around, but then she bounced back after that, so I wasn’t the only one that did
that. 1:01
Interviewer: “Normally what position would you play when you were playing?”

12

�Center field when I played for the Bluebirds, center field for the Grand Rapids Chicks,
and second base when I played for the Sallies.
Interviewer: “Was that just depending who else was on the team, where to put
you?”
Well, the coaches put you, they place you and you could be an infielder or an outfielder.
Interviewer: “Now did you play any positions beside those two?”
No, pretty much those two, and I liked center because I was pretty fast and I could cover
the other people over on those ends, so it worked well for me.
Interviewer: “Did you have a good throwing arm?”
I threw people out at the plate from center field.
Interviewer: “Could you hit?”
Fairly well, not real good, but I was a pretty good base stealer when I got on. I hear Toni
saying she was on base a lot and that’s kind of amazing to me, but you know and he said,
“don’t let the truth get in the way of anything.” 2:00
Interviewer: “She was on base all the time, she said.”
According to her, yeah and you got to love her. “What was your average? Were you
batting three hundred? Because we know that girls that batted three hundred and you
weren’t one of them.” You know who they were don’t you? Doris Sams, the ones they
named, people have already named the better players right? So Doris Sam’s, Connie
Wisnwiewski, and I can’t even think of the others right now, but-Interviewer: “She may have walked a lot.”
That could have been, that might have been.

13

�Interviewer: “Alright, so as someone who ran bases a lot, did you have problems
with strawberries and all of that?”
Yeah
Interviewer: “Did you find ways of dealing with that? Could you slide in a certain
way that was less harmful?”
No, when you hit the ground you’re going to land on the same spot the next time and you
remember that because it’s not comfortable.
Interviewer: “What kind of treatment could they provide for you?”
The chaperone came out right away and rolled you over and first cleaned it off and then
the Mercurichrome and of course, we never complained about anything because they
would take you out of the line-up and I did not want to be taken out of the line-up. 3:08
The ball player today, when they get a hangnail they don’t play and they get all that
money.
Interviewer: “Well, they want to protect their investment, right?”
It cracks me up
Interviewer: “So, basically you’re situation in Chicago changes, but you still want
to keep playing, so did you have to go tryout for the all Americans in 1951?”
No, when I said I wanted to come back they said, “oh good”, and they put me on a team.
Interviewer: “Alright, what do you remember about the season in Grand Rapids?”
I remember getting on base in Grand Rapids and sort of outwitting the Cuban pitchers for
stealing. I knew their little slow moves and whatever and throwing people out, and then
the people I met, so that was the best for me.

14

�Interviewer: “Were their some pitchers that were harder to run on than others?”
3:59
Yes, tough to run on
Interviewer: “Who was tough?”
Well, Jean Faut, of course, and I can’t think of any right now, I’m just not pulling them
up.
Interviewer: “And their pitchers that you really didn’t like to have to bat against?”
Well, you couldn’t control it, you did your best you know, you never gave up, never give
up.
Interviewer: “Where did you live when you were in Grand Rapids?”
In a home with somebody, and I don’t even remember the people's name right now, but I
lived in a sort of a boarding house situation once too.
Interviewer: “Do you remember which field you were playing at? South Field by
the high school or Bigelow Field south of town?”
I think it was Bigelow Field.
Interviewer: “They played there for a couple of years and then it burned down.
Were the crowds good in Grand Rapids at that point?” 4:55
Yes they were, that was five years in and they were still good. It was the last two or three
years that they weren’t so good and I don’t if it was a novelty and it was wearing off with
people, but it was kind of sad to see it go. Some of the girls, what you call the all stars
went on to play in other places around the country with Bill Allington and things like
that, so that was good.
Interviewer: “They did a little more barnstorming for a while anyway.”

15

�Yeah, a little more barnstorming, but that’s all that was left. I remember that wrestling
came into popularity then and girls roller skating came into popularity, so I don’t want to
call the American public fickle, but they tire of things after while and the guys were back,
so that was a big thing.
Interviewer: “That’s right because when the league started the minor leagues were
pretty well shut down, so in these smaller towns and so forth, they didn’t have
anything going on. 5:50
Sometimes—let’s see, it was when you’d go down to Florida and Max Carey was down
there and he’s invite some of us girls to the track to bet on the dogs, he always wanted
fifty cents, he was going to go in on it with two or three of us, kind of interesting huh?
Interviewer: “So you play basically with Grand Rapids for one year and then what
do you do after that?”
After that I go to college.
Interviewer: “Where did you go to college?”
I went to Northeastern Illinois State in Chicago, a city college.
Interviewer: “And what did you study?”
Education and Psychology
Interviewer: “Then what did you do with the degree once you had it?”
I was an elementary teacher for six years and then after that I was a counselor for twentyeight years.
Interviewer: “Where did you work?”
First in Chicago and then after a year the Department of Defense started in New York and
came across the country all the way to California, and they were interviewing for jobs in

16

�Europe at the army schools, so they picked me in Chicago and I went over to Europe for
two years and taught in Germany. 7:00 When I came back form there—you could look
for placements over there is you were deciding to come home and I found one in Parma,
Ohio, so I was there for two years and then I decided I wanted to work on my masters and
then I came back to Chicago. So, my career is in education.
Interviewer: “Aside from getting you some funding to start college with, what kind
of effects, do you think, playing organized ball for the all Americans and the softball
league, what sort of effects did that have on you?”
Well, the camaraderie is just so much you know, I think you’re so lucky to get that in
your life, but also, you’re around all these other women of talent, you supported each
other, you had role models because the girls that came before us were certain role models
you know. That Wagner lady, Audrey Wagner, ended up being a doctor and things like
that. The role models—“there isn’t anything you can’t do, at least give it a try”. 8:07 I
don’t think a lot of kids grow up with that, you have these other things that lead you to it,
these other opportunities and that’s what I think is the important thing, the opportunity
and then to be lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time with the right set of
skills.
Interviewer: “When you were actually playing with the league, did you see yourself
at all as any kind of pioneer and really doing something significant in moving
women’s sports?”
No, just doing what I loved to do, being physical in space and doing it well and all the
other benefits that I’ve suggested.

17

�Interviewer: “Then in the seventies and in the eighties as women’s sports really
start to pick up and title nine comes in and so forth, did you pay much attention to
that?” 8:52
Yeah, I remember people in—all the PE teachers in the school were into this Title IX
thing and all of us ladies were and I was a counselor in school, so we were always
politicking for that to come into being, because it made a difference. Look at our athletes
today—all as a result of Title IX. I know all the little particulars and the politics of it—
not that many girls care and not that many girls want to come out and they’re taking
space from the boys, but I think that gave America a boost now too. Our female athletes
and all the things they’ve won, we beat China in the Olympics, things like that. Look at
the women athletes in anything today, how good they are, and they have the same
training, they do the workouts. What we did was calisthenics and running, we didn’t do
weight work and you know how strong that enables you to be, so that’s why the women
are so good today. The women’s teams are as good as us or better, but the interest is not
there because you see, it’s society, it’s always the men with the bib basketball and the big
baseball and it’s understandable, that’s where the money goes, that’s where everything is.
10:03 I always thought sports in America was a great outlet for men in a progressive
nature. Let’s use their testosterone and I always thought, this is good because people
aren’t fighting in society themselves or fighting on the streets, they’re getting rid of it in
some other way and they’re getting rich too
Interviewer: “That’s true and we’re not like the European soccer fans where all the
violence is in the stands.”
We have our heroes, we sure do.

18

�Interviewer: “Were you involved in any of the stuff leading into the creation of “A
League of Their Own” and all that?”
Yes, right from the beginning. People that remember people, remember where they live,
“oh, she’s here”, and I got a call from Shirley Jamison, one of the first, and she was a tiny
little lady the first three, four or five years and in fact that was the first pictorial section
that came out in the newspaper, she was in that picture and of course years later, Isabel
came out in one while she was a pitcher. 10:58 Shirley called me up and said, “I know
where she’s living”, and then they told me . I went to Cooperstown in 1988 and it all
kicked off from there.
Interviewer: “The people you worked with and your friends, did they know you
played ball?”
I never told them, never talked about it.
Interviewer: “Even while you’re kind of lobbying for women in sports?”
Yeah, isn’t that interesting, it was just that part of my life is the way I looked at it you
know. Parts of it were wonderful for me and gave me an impetus to do things. I can tell
you a story—kind of an impetus to do things—I saw a movie when I was younger Roz
Russell played Amelia Earhart in the movie and what was I, in my teens when I saw that
or ten years old? Anyway, when I was forty years old, some kids in school came and
asked me if I would sponsor a flying club, just asked me. I said, “Oh sure”, so that
summer I said, “Oh my god, I better get a pilot's license, so that’s when I went to get a
pilots license because I wanted their respect, I wanted to know more than them, so they
would—just didn’t have someone who was just kind of a face to their thing, I wanted to
know the stuff. 12:06 Then I flew for five years on a regular basis and the guys that

19

�trained me said, “Ilene, you keep coming out, why?” I said, “I love being in the air, it’s
marvelous”, because he said that most women get their ticket and you never see them
again, they just want to say they have a pilots license. I didn’t know that until the
instructor told me that’s what most of the guys do it, but I guess we ladies are a little
more serious about it, we’re just glad to be there in the first place. 12:34
Interviewer: “And do you think that having gone and just done the stuff you had
done by taking on new challenges, it was no big deal to go fly?”
Yes, exactly, plus I had that interest since I was maybe fifteen or sixteen. If Amelia
Earhart can do it, I can do it. That’s so funny isn’t it? People need role models, boys and
girls both need role models and I had my role models in the girls that played ball and that
movie. In fact, that was the first role model to me, before I went with the girls to play
ball, you know, for something to do or that looks interesting, that I want to try.
Interviewer: “Well it makes for a good story and I’ll point out to you, you took
longer than fifteen minutes to tell it.”
I did? How long did I talk?
Interviewer: “I don’t know.”
A half hour, my times up—I’m usually worth a half hour. 13.23
Interviewer: “You’ve done really well, so thank you for coming and talking to us.”
Thank you.

20

�21

�22

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                <text>Ginger Gascon was born in Chicago in 1931 and grew up playing softball.  She played on softball teams used by the AAGPL as farm clubs while she was in highschool, then joined the Springfield Sallies for the league's barnstorming tour in 1949.  She played professional softball in Chicago in 1950, then played for the Grand Rapids Chicks in 1951.  She played both center field and second base. She later became an educator and was actively involved in promoting women's sports.</text>
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            <name>Contributor</name>
            <description>An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource</description>
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                <text>Smither, James (Interviewer)</text>
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          <element elementId="49">
            <name>Subject</name>
            <description>The topic of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="561292">
                <text>Oral history</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="561293">
                <text>Veterans History Project (U.S.)</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="561294">
                <text>Video recordings</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="561295">
                <text>All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="561296">
                <text>Baseball for women--United States</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="561297">
                <text>Baseball</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="561298">
                <text>Sports for women</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="561299">
                <text>World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="561300">
                <text>Baseball players--Michigan</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="561301">
                <text>Baseball players--Illinois</text>
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            <name>Language</name>
            <description>A language of the resource</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="561302">
                <text>eng</text>
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            </elementTextContainer>
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            <name>Rights</name>
            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="561303">
                <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en"&gt;In Copyright&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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            <name>Type</name>
            <description>The nature or genre of the resource</description>
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                <text>Moving Image</text>
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                <text>Text</text>
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          <element elementId="46">
            <name>Relation</name>
            <description>A related resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="561310">
                <text>Veterans History Project (U.S.)</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
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            <name>Date</name>
            <description>A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="561311">
                <text>2010-08-06</text>
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            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="48">
            <name>Source</name>
            <description>A related resource from which the described resource is derived</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="567065">
                <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484"&gt;All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-55)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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            </elementTextContainer>
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            <name>Format</name>
            <description>The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="794540">
                <text>application/pdf</text>
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                <text>video/mp4</text>
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          <element elementId="45">
            <name>Publisher</name>
            <description>An entity responsible for making the resource available</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="1031720">
                <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives</text>
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