211 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c33564ab68257b4e58b37a0ddc7c5db1.pdf 8d7d809b0e8fbbaf62da936433a32801 PDF Text Text Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project Johnson Center for Philanthropy Grand Valley State University Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 The Council of Michigan Foundations, Johnson Center for Philanthropy at Grand Valley State University (GVSU), and GVSU Libraries’ Special Collections & University Archives present: An oral history interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010. Conducted by Dr. James Smither of the History Department at GVSU. Recorded at WGVU in Grand Rapids, Michigan. This interview is part of a series in the Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project documenting the history of philanthropy in Michigan. Preferred citation: Researchers wishing to cite this collection should use the following credit line: Oral history interview with Virgina Esposito, February 18, 2010. "Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project", Johnson Center Philanthropy Archives of the Special Collection & University Archives, Grand Valley State University Libraries. Note: Corrections and additional information added by the interviewee are indicated in brackets. James Smither (JS): We are conducting an interview today for the Johnson Center for Philanthropy at Grand Valley State University. We are beginning an oral history series conducted with both area philanthropists and people who are, sort of, in the business or profession of philanthropy in one form or another. Today we are talking to Virginia Esposito who is an expert in the study of family philanthropy and foundations. She is currently a visiting fellow [scholar] here at the Johnson Center at Grand Valley State University and she also runs her own organization which studies family philanthropy. And what we’re going to do is sort of turn things around a little bit, because she will work with people and ask them to talk about why they do what they do and how they understand it, and now we’re going to ask some of those questions of her. The interviewer, by the way, is James Smither of the History Department of Grand Valley State University. Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 1 �Now, Ginny can you start by telling us a little bit about your own background? Just to begin with where and when were you born? 00:01:00 Virginia (Ginny) Esposito (GE): Oh my goodness, I was born in Philadelphia, and I was born in 1952. And my parents had only been married a few months when my father was sent to Korea. So I’ve never lived in Philadelphia, but my mother went home to be with her family so there’d be somebody around, and that’s how I came to be born there. JS: So where did you grow up then? GE: I grew up in the Marine Corps. I grew up in all of the places that they sent my dad except those that we could not go to. I didn’t go to Viet Nam, didn’t go to Korea, didn’t go to Lebanon. But we went to mostly up and down the Atlantic and into the Caribbean, and so I grew up there. And I was lucky enough that when I got to high school, which is the place where you’d like to go [be a bit more settled], my father was young enough that he thought he could retire - having been in the service since the World War II. He decided he could retire and start a new career at a young age, and I could go to high school in one place. So I will say that I have spent most of my life in and around Virginia, southern Virginia, went to school in central Virginia, and I now live in northern Virginia. JS: So where were you living when you were in high school? GE: In southern Virginia. I was living in Norfolk, Virginia. It was really important to my father that we all go to Catholic school. And he found there was a Catholic school in Norfolk, good college prep education, and every single one of us was going to go through that school. I was up at the top of the group, so that’s how all [of us], all the ones underneath me, could go [to the same high school]. Yes, he felt that when the last of us graduated they should dedicate the doors or something to him for the tuition. JS: Did you go on to college from there? 00:02:40 GE: You know I did, and it was, it was really a sort of process of being a little ignorant and very inexperienced. I’m the first person on either side of my family to have gone to college. It was a huge, big deal but there wasn’t a lot of prep, you know, for what that would mean. And I looked around and there were really terrific colleges in Virginia, where I wanted to go to. And at the time the University of Virginia had a women’s college. It was actually Mary Washington College of the University of Virginia. It’s since been separated. It’s since gone co-ed. There are men on that campus now. But for me, I loved the notion that it was a liberal arts school, I could study in every single department in the college, which is something I really did want. It was small, so someone who was a little more, well, not really willing to put herself out, you know, could find a niche somewhere. It offered great work study, and I was very excited about that, and it actually was the right choice for me. I actually planned to leave and go on to the University of Virginia my junior year and ended up changing my mind. Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 2 �JS: Did you get a degree in anything in particular? 00:04:00 GE: Yes, actually I studied languages, got a degree in Spanish. I studied, I actually took advantage of the fact that back then you paid one price; you could take as many classes as you want. So English became very important. Education, studied a lot of education and history. So there were a fair number of majors and related fields. I really did take the liberal arts part seriously. JS: As you were doing this, did you have any idea where you wanted to go or what you wanted to do when you got out? GE: Not a clue. I studied the languages first and foremost because I’ve lived in a country that had [where] English was not the first language, and as a kid it had been easy to pick it up, and so I was intrigued at that. And I actually found there was a lot of advantage to being able to speak different languages, and at one point in my college career I was actually taking five. And I thought this is just fabulous, communication, this is just so wonderful, you know. And I sort of vaguely thought maybe diplomacy, maybe something foreign service, something along those lines. But the other thing that work study did was, candidly, created a debt to the state of Virginia, so I knew that the first thing I was going to be doing was, unless I was willing to pay it back, was to go and teach in the state of Virginia. By the time I took a few education courses and I actually did student teaching and things like that, [I] thought I like this, I think I can teach and I did. I did that for six years. I left college and went into teaching Introduction to Communications and foreign language and three levels of Spanish actually. JS: And where were you doing that? 00:05:40 GE: I was doing that also in southern Virginia in Hampton which is [in] the Hampton roads area. And after a couple of years moved back over the river to Norfolk and did the little commute. This was before it was so crowded that you couldn’t possibly think about crossing that river every day and I did it. And I did that, as I say for six years, and by about the end of the fifth year I recognized that I loved the classroom, but this wasn’t what I wanted to do longer term. JS: That’s actually a fairly common experience with teachers in a lot of different ways. What sort of was it that didn’t seem to fit or what were you looking for that you weren’t getting? 00:06:24 GE: That’s a great question because there was a part of it that was a little bit depressing because I genuinely loved the classroom experience. I came into the system that year with about seventyfive rookie teachers, the year that I started. I think I was the last one to be there that stayed. It was really all of the other stuff besides teaching, the fact that languages, communications, these kinds of things were always on the chopping block. I think of the six years, I can say this for certainty, every single year, I was told that they weren’t sure if they could continue to fund languages, so [I] didn’t know if I would have a job. There was a lot of school board stuff, and city council stuff, and it wasn’t a great time economically, so there was a lot of, lot of tension. Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 3 �And it just felt like, you know, there’s something about the kids I’m relating to but I missed the other thing that I studied quite a bit in college. In fact I had done several art history tours of Europe, I’d been studying northern European and Renaissance art. I really loved my art history and I thought, you know, maybe arts administration. I still was attracted to this notion that it wasn’t [going to be] government now and it wasn’t going to be business. It was youth and this nonprofit sector, but I thought it was going to be arts administration. And I knew Washington, D.C. had some great programs in arts administration. And so I left my contract and moved to Washington with no job but, I was going to look for one. JS: All right so you were just going to go try to take a job rather than do a graduate program— GE: I was going to do a graduate program but I was going to have to do a graduate program while I worked. I did not have the resources and didn’t want to acquire the debt that would have said, I was going to get to do it full time. In retrospect, probably should have bitten the bullet and just done it, but since it probably would have been a mistake in terms of what I wanted to study longer term, you know, maybe it wasn’t. I have little patience with regrets but I wanted to be going to school but to be also working. JS: How long did it take you to find a job? 00:08:50 GE: Well, I was told that this was a terrible, terrible environment to be looking for work. And I hit the pavement in what was at that point, I think, the hottest summer on record in Washington, D.C., so I never showed up for an interview that I wasn’t soaking wet. But I gave, gosh youth, I gave myself like I was going to find a job in two weeks, you know, and mostly through blind ads and a couple of, you know, agencies and things like that, and I actually found three but picked the one that I liked the most. JS: And what was that? 00:09:35 GE: Well I had answered a blind ad for a Phil Org. That’s all it said in the ad: P-h-i-l O-r-g. And my father, you should know, and my grandfather had both been interested in stamps, so I said to myself, well I’m either going to be in stamp collecting or charity. You know it’s philately, it’s philanthropy, I don’t know which, but I’ll show up. And it was very, very interesting because the same day I interviewed for what you would have thought was my dream job, I did an interview at Youth for Understanding on student exchange and it had everything that I’d been very interested in. My last year of teaching, I took eighteen junior high school students through Europe. Now one could have thought that would have ended my high school, I mean teaching, career and it sort of did, but it was a celebration rather than a last straw. And so here was Youth for Understanding and I was going to get to work with student exchange. I was going to get to help people appreciate other cultures. It was a much more senior position and it was a much better paying position. And the Phil Org that I did the blind ad for turned out to be the Council on Foundations, which had recently moved from New York to Washington, to take advantage of the, sort of, need for Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 4 �foundations realizing they needed a better representation on the Hill. They were still reeling from the 1969 tax act, and so they were regrouping in Washington. The position that I had was, sort of, very bottom rung, as I said did not pay quite as well as the other position. But there was something about it. There was something about the work they were doing. There was something about the sort of scrappy nature of an organization regrouping in a new city. There was something about the fact that it was very clear that, in addition to what I needed to do, I was going to get to pay attention to a lot of other things in philanthropy and in the organization. And I was offered the two jobs within ten minutes of each other. In fact, it was my Friday afternoon. It was me convinced that I was not going to get a job offer. My friends were about to take me off to the beach for the weekend to console me and at quarter to five one call came and at five to five another one came. And everyone was sure it was going to be the Youth for Understanding job because it made such a fit with what I’d been doing, and it absolutely wasn’t. It was total gut. This is what you want to do. JS: So you take your Phil Org job— GE: Yup, I take my Phil Org, no stamps. JS: What was that like then? You go into work for the first time. What do you wind up doing right away? 00:12:30 GE: Well, the first thing that I was supposed to be doing was I was supposed to be helping the number two person in the organization. Well actually I guess he might have been number three, he was the executive vice president, but back at that time they had two senior people. And I was supposed to be his assistant. And he had a whole lot of areas he was responsible for and there were only two or three of us that worked for him. So it was even the second day that I discovered a whole area of work. And it was these, we were the national association of grantmaking foundations and corporations, but there were all these regional ones all over the country. And there was this, right behind where I was sitting, was this gigantic filing cabinet of stuff but nobody was paying attention to it, so I finally was like, well, Can I figure this out? And I went in there and I found that somebody had starting to do a survey, and someone was looking to, at the time the relationships between national and regional weren’t great, so is there something that I can do here? And it’s very interesting when you think about where I’m sitting today because I got very interested in the work of those regional groups, and one of my very first contacts in the field of philanthropy, one of my very first committee members and first teachers was Dorothy Johnson, for whom the Johnson Center at Grand Valley is named. And so it was a lovely sort of coming around to come back to her. From there I quickly got into the education function and that was what made sense. There were not a lot of people there who had experience in putting together curricula. There weren’t there people who understood different formats for education, weren’t used to the facilitation of groups, and that was just a natural place for me to go. So within about two years; I had a major position in grantmaker education. And I was able to really get into everything from their annual Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 5 �conference that brought people from all over the world to smaller conferences that focused on individual kinds of activities. And I really credit the people who came into the organization for making it such a terrific place for me to be because after about a year or two of doing one thing I would sort of feel like [it was getting repetitive]…okay, and they’d come to my door and say, Well, how about [taking] this [on]? And so I went there for two years; I stayed for seventeen. But I did nine different jobs [and] every time, it just seemed it was a natural other thing I could give to the organization. And they were really flexible about that, so within education if I was interested in doing, what about programming for new people? Okay. What about veterans? What about trustees? It’s actually how I ultimately would get into family. But I also credit it with really, really building the sort of liberal arts aspect to my education, because in bringing people in to speak to grantmakers, I got to meet some of the most wonderful, inspiring leaders around the world, because I was their point person. I prepped them to understand philanthropy and to bring them in. And that was incredibly great work. I would go out and read the books they’d written. I’d learn everything about them. I’d, you know, get to know them well. It was such a great job. It was so great. JS: What sorts of people are these that you would bring in? 00:16:08 GE: Oh, my goodness. Everybody from, there were so many, Jonas Salk and Leon Sullivan and Bishop Tutu and Jimmy Carter and Gloria Steinem, and, you know, all of these people that philanthropy would want to hear from, leaders, you know, who had been just amazing leaders. And I’m sitting there, the point person for what they do, and going [to] wherever they lived and talking to them about the audience, and making sure that they were well prepared to do a good job. And in some cases we did things where, okay, I’m going to prep you or okay, we’re going to work with Bill Moyers on a series that he’s going to do on philanthropy. It was just a constant education, especially if you liked that part of it, if you loved that, which I absolutely did. So while the details of putting on programs could somehow drive you nuts, I’d also be sitting in an audience going, this is the most terrific opportunity for somebody, you know, to get to do this and to do this at this personal level, not just to hear them, but to work with them in getting this done. There was a conference where there was some serious, serious tension between different communities of color in that city. And the committees and the organization decided that Maya Angelou, for example, would be a perfect person to come in and do a major session to, sort of, talk to everyone about the need for all of us to find a way to do this work together. And it was very sensitive, I mean, there were people that didn’t think she should come. There were people who thought that maybe the whole thing should be boycotted or called off. And I remember her grilling me about why she should do this, what role could she play. And I answered every question she had, and at the end of it she was like, “Honey, if ever I were needed, this is it.” And so that’s just one little, out of dozens of them. So here I was getting to know philanthropy at the most intimate level, but also at the most expansive level, and also getting these inspiring leaders, and who were coming, you know, to me as the chief cook and bottle washer, but still it was there. Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 6 �JS: Aside from Maya Angelou, are there particular people out of this assortment that maybe particularly surprised you or impressed you beyond maybe what their record or credentials would have indicated? 00:18.46 GE: Yes, I think when you grow up and you take your basic science, you know, you think, okay, you know, Jonas Salk and Salk vaccine and this kind of thing. What I remember about Jonas Salk was that his mind was so much more expansive than science. He saw connections and applications in everything. He was a person [whose] deep values guided what he did. He didn’t necessarily want to talk just about science or his own accomplishments. He wanted to talk about what we were all doing to, you know, make the world a better place, a more global community. He was so not what I expected; he was so not what I expected. And then there were other people who were more personally, just they were very inspiring, they were very moving. I remember right after he won the Nobel Peace Prize, the president, then President of Costa Rica, Oscar Arias came, was doing our conference. And right before he arrived, his most important mentor in the field passed away. And so the man who arrived in Toronto for our conference was really grieving. And, I knew he had to rise to the occasion, but I also somehow figured out I needed to respect a little bit of the space. So there had been a sort of day of activities that people had planned for mostly press and things like that, and somehow we all knew he just needed a day going off by himself, you know, just dealing with all of this, and then when he came back of course did this absolutely fabulous, amazing job. You know, some people you expect to be very sort of lofty, maybe above it all, and they were incredibly down to earth, and there were a few we expected them to be down to earth and they weren’t so much. But I still remember those that there were surprises, it was that whole notion of surprise. One my very, very favorites was Leon Sullivan, the reverend in Philadelphia who had founded the whole notion of opportunities, you know, industrial group that in inner cities provide job training and good educational efforts, and this was just a model around the country. A minister who had seen his ministry, not just [as] his congregation, but all of the community and what can we do [to] raise up communities through job training, and one of the greatest African American leaders this country has ever had. And I mention African American because at the time both my CEO and Chair of my committee were distinguished African American leaders, but they were, you know, clearly [a] generation down from Reverend Sullivan. So when the three of us went up to visit Reverend Sullivan in his little tiny cramped office, the two of them, these amazingly accomplished men that I just had such respect for, turned into like little students at the feet of this man, and I was just shocked that here were these two people who obviously really valued his good opinion, and were just so eager to please him. And I have to tell you he had demands and expectations of each of them, but he clearly knew each one of them, knew what they had accomplished. And at the end of it as we’re sort of all filing out of this little office, he gets to the first one and he says, "Okay. I know what you’ve been doing in Cleveland. You’ve been doing really great work." And he goes, "I’m really proud of you. I am so proud of you." And, you know, there’s this man, he’s beaming. "I’m so proud of you." And this big bear hug. And then comes my boss and he goes, "I know what you’re doing for philanthropy. I know what you’re Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 7 �doing down there in Washington. I am so proud of you. I’m so proud of you." And then I’m the next one through and I look up at him, and he was really, really tall, and I said, "It’s okay, Dr. Sullivan, my mother’s proud of me." And he points to the table where all the literature from the conference was and he goes, "Honey, if you think I think those two did all that work, (laughter) you’re crazy." He goes, "And I’m proud of you," and there was this big bear hug. So sometimes it was just those moments where life isn’t the way you predicted it, but it teaches you an openness, you know, that I now still value to this day. JS: I would think that on some level people who choose to be involved in philanthropy, and they commit themselves to it by and large, are going to be a fairly good-hearted bunch and wish well of people most of the time, and so a certain amount of that will happen. It probably isn’t always exactly quite that way or there are other motivations for doing it, but a lot of the time to really make that kind of commitment there has to be some heart there. Now an awful lot of your work has focused on family foundations. GE: Right. JS: Can you tell me a little about when and how you came to go in that direction? 00:23:48 GE: That’s a good point. At this point now of my career I was doing education on every single level there was. As I said, you know, if it was corporate, I helped start a corporate conference and a community foundation conference. We grew that annual conference from a few hundred people to over 2,000 people. I was really; I was doing conferences in other countries. I was always, always interviewing people in the field to talk about, what were the issues we weren’t tackling, what were they dealing with that they really could use some, you know, support for. And one day I was talking to some people I knew really well in other capacities, but they said to me, You know, it would be really helpful if you would look at those of us who work in foundations where the donor, or mostly at that point, relatives of the donor were still involved. And I was a little taken aback by the suggestion not because it was inappropriate but because, well, wait a second, isn’t that how all foundations starts with a donor, and an awful lot of these foundations involve their family? Why has organized philanthropy or the infrastructure, if you will, of philanthropy, never done anything in this? So I went on the road and started talking to people about that, and I found out that, for the most part, organized philanthropy was not really comfortable with the family aspect or the trustee aspect even. It was mostly comfortable supporting the people who were the professionally paid staff folks in these foundations whether they were community, private, or corporate, and specifically program officers. So we were really good at putting on great environmental programs for environmental program officers, but maybe not much looking at governance, much less family dynamics. And I found out that there was not a lot of excitement about doing this because people thought it could potentially bring down the reputation of philanthropy as something that was very much a serious responsibility. It was very professional. We had systems. We had experts. We had forms, you know. And if you start talking about these volunteers and all this family stuff, what will the world think about philanthropy? Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 8 �And so we decided to start on a very small basis. I said, "We’ll just do one session within the whole big conference. And we’re not even going to have a program per se. We’re going to do an open-ended facilitated conversation about, what are the issues?" And we called it, All in the Family. Boy, were we creative. And we put it in a room that we would normally put an experimental session [in] which would hold about 150, and well over 250 people showed up for it. The fire marshal was screaming at me. And it was hugely successful. And I mean I lost track of how many issues people were talking about. It was so successful that we did it a second year. There was still nervousness, probably a little more so because now we were articulating the issues. We did it a second year and creatively we called it, All in the Family Part Two. And it was just amazing. And people were after me right after that and they said, This is so terrific. We’re talking about things we never have. How do we link family goals and philanthropy? How do we understand when to bring in adults that are the next generation into this? How do we understand what the donors really want? Do you want to involve your family? And if you do what does that mean? What about this family foundation we’ve heard about that, at the time, that is splitting up because they can’t get along? What is that all about? 00:27:40 JS: At this stage of things, these first couple of sessions, are the people who are attending and participating still sort of the professional staff types out of these foundations? GE: Nope. JS: Or are you getting some of these actual family members and things— GE: We’re getting family members, and they were the family members who were mostly also the staff for their family foundations. Or we were getting the professionals who were the CEOs, they may have been non-family members, but they were CEOs of family foundations themselves. But for the most part we were getting family members. We were not getting the professional staff. That didn’t happen for years. But anyway, they said, Well what if we put on a little conference just for us? And for a year or so we [were told], no, can’t do that, can’t do that. And I’ll never forget the reason we finally could do it was because the chair of the education committee, my education committee, was the president of the Ford Foundation. Now, you need to know that for a lot of people in family foundations the Ford Foundation was sort of like the antichrist. This is what happens when donors don’t take good control of what’s happening with their foundations. It could be like Henry Ford’s Foundation. And don’t we think Henry Ford is spinning in his grave? Well, that was just sort of nonsense. JS: Why would people have thought that? 00:28:56 GE: People thought the Ford Foundation, there was this incredible perception that the Ford Foundation was off all around the globe doing fairly liberal, all these socially conscious things Henry Ford would never have, and had anything to do with that. Well, first of all, I always was sort of impressed that people knew what Henry Ford would have done. But part of it was because Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 9 �Henry Ford’s son had had a fairly dramatic exit from the board. And so people thought this must have been a parting of the ways of a family and a foundation, and look what happens when you don’t stay on top of your foundation as a donor. These people will take it and run with it. Now incredible misperceptions, incredible presumptions about what Henry would have wanted and done. But, here’s this Ford Foundation that everybody sort of talks about what you don’t want to be, and here’s the President of the Ford Foundation telling the Council on Foundations, “We absolutely need to do this. If we can’t do this, who can?” And she was the one who sort of [made it possible], it was ok, I could go off with the first meeting. And I was told to have very low expectations. And don’t call it a conference. Just call it a meeting. And I prayed that about 30 people would come and 75 came. And it was, it was hugely successful. They are still doing them to this day. And the last one I did for the organization was in 1997. There were over 800 people that came. Now, in the course of doing that work I obviously got to learn a lot about what families care about, what issues they’re dealing with. I had to plan the sessions for those meetings. I really got interested in families and how they give, and how I could help them give. And there was just something about it. I really enjoyed it but I was doing it as a part of all my education responsibilities. Until one day in 1985, I was part of a staff that went to a program being held at Stanford University on The Future of Private Philanthropy in America. And it was really a very multifaceted, very sophisticated program. It brought in policy makers, it brought in academicians, practitioners, donors, you name it, to talk about what did it take to really encourage and sustain a healthy philanthropic sector. And it was very lofty, very exciting, lots to learn. And at the very, very end of that conference they were taking closing comments from people, and I must tell you that throughout the conference there were lots of sort of nasty comments about, and this was their phrase not mine, rich people. You know, if rich people would just do this, if rich people would just do this, and so we heard a lot about rich people from time to time. At the very end of the conference this woman, and I knew her, I was very fond of her actually, but who was very quiet through the entire program, she’s been furiously taking notes, stood up, and she said, like I said just going around for closing comments, "First of all, I have to confess to this audience that, I am a rich person." Everybody’s like… okay, didn’t realize you were in the room. No. But then she said that in hearing about policy and in hearing about effectiveness and favorable legislation and all this kind of stuff there was one thing she hadn’t heard anything about, and that was joy. And she said, "There is great joy in the privilege of doing this work, the opportunity to do this work, and the people that you get to see and meet doing it." She said that if she thought she could communicate that joy to her children, that she’d be doing her part in ensuring the future of private philanthropy in America. And it was Lucile Packard. And it’s just one of those moments where you sit there and [are moved]. [The] fights about whether we should be working on family issues, sort of all came together. And this is what I wanted to do. I really wanted to focus on this area. And several years later my mentor in the field, the one who'd been working with me for ten years, Paul Ylvisaker died. And it gave me a chance to think about what I wanted out of my career. I’d been doing this work very happily for a long time. But what did I really want to do? And it was not to be an administrator, not to be the head of the largest department at the Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 10 �organization with nine or ten different functions in it; it was to get to go back and dig deep into the program, and it was the Luciles of the world I wanted to do this with. And so that was, that was really the moment, and then the death of Paul Ylvisaker was the impetus for deciding I was going to change tracks. 00:33:50 JS: Were you able to change tracks within your existing position organization at that point? GE: That’s a good question, because I didn’t assume so. And I also want you to know that I was, I had huge respect for the President of the Council on Foundations at that time, James Joseph, who went on to leave the Council to become the ambassador to South Africa, had been my boss for a long time, and given me lots of opportunity and support, and I wasn’t going to make a change without talking to him. I automatically assumed it had to be somewhere else. I mean if you’re vice president of this gigantic department and you want to make this change to this concrete area that doesn’t even exist in the organization you work in; you assume you’re going to have to go somewhere else. I had no idea what that meant, I just thought I’d have to go somewhere else. So I went to talk to Jim, and to tell him. And Jim understood. He’s the one that had brought Paul to the organization, and he knew what working with him had meant to me. So he was inclined to be sympathetic. So at one point he said, “Well, Ginny, why do you need to go somewhere else to do this? Why don’t you do this within the Council? And you can leave your position.” He wanted me to stay a vice president. I talked him out of that. I said, "Please don’t make me go to officer meetings anymore," (laughs) I talked him out of that. He said I could stay in the organization. I could start a program on family philanthropy. He said, "You can research, you can write, you can convene meetings, all under the rubric of the Council." He goes, “You’ll be doing something good for the Council, and you’ll be doing something good for yourself exploring the area.” So it was really terrific that somebody was willing to be that flexible about this. And he did, he let me leave that whole department and found a new VP, let me change, created a different title, created a small team of people that I could work with. There were people immediately ready to provide funding. There were folks in the field, most specifically and early on, the Packard Foundation interestingly enough, by now Lucile Packard had passed away, but who came right in to provide it so we didn’t even have to rely at first on the general budget. We could do it with great support from the field. And so he let me do that. Now, it wasn’t all going to be peachy keen, because right after he made this plan and we put it into effect he was named Ambassador to South Africa. And also it was the time when Jesse Helms was sort of holding the State Department hostage. And so he was refusing to hear the confirmation hearings for new ambassadors. So poor Jim had to sit as sort of a lame duck somewhere torn between the Council and being the new Ambassador for almost a year while Jesse did his thing. And so when new leadership came in, new issues surfaced about whether or not family philanthropy was really the going forward calling card. And there were some just concerns about that, some very legitimate. When an organization is in transition, I learned that they just want people to help keep the oars in the water. And when you are part of a new initiative that is Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 11 �changing the composition of Council membership, that is changing the kind of people participating, you’re now talking about trustees and donors as well, and some people saw family philanthropy at odds with other kinds of philanthropy, well we weren’t keeping the oars in the water; we were, not intentionally, rocking the entire boat. And I think there was great energy and excitement about that as a future vision for the organization, but I think the dynamics of an extended transition meant that there was just great, great concern. And so it was very difficult to, sort of, you know, to do some of that and to be faithful to an organization I’d worked at for such a long time. So it was a three year program. I had hoped that it could be renewed as most other special initiatives were at the Council. It ended up not being renewed for a lot of politics. But even before it wasn’t renewed, I had decided that I was now ready to take this and take it somewhere else. I was very proud of the fact that what was being left behind at the Council was a great conference for families, there was a newsletter, there were issue papers, there was a real strong foundation for what was going forward. And as a part of my transition, I offered to do whatever I could to help prep new staff so they’d be positioned to do this well. But over the course of that three years, I started talking to people about what, not just what did the Council need, but what did the whole field need. And what I realized was that family philanthropy happens in lots of places. It doesn’t just happen in family foundations. It happens in community foundations, it happens at the Jewish Federation, it happens in gift funds, it happens in giving circles. It’s in family businesses is where it usually starts. The new family offices were holding it. Banks have tremendous amounts of family giving. And we didn’t see this whole big field of family philanthropy. Then people were much more comfortable with the term just family foundations. The field defined it by the legal structure people chose. I saw, my experience with families was they don’t define themselves by their legal structure. They may have had precious little to do with choosing the legal structure. They defined it by what their goals were for involving the family or for what they wanted to give to. So what I saw was you can’t just help the Council on Foundations, I wanted to help figure out how to help all those people. So I started talking to some of the best minds in family philanthropy, people who really understood this, and people outside of family philanthropy just to test my assumptions. And because being Sicilian we love a good fight, and god knows I’d been getting one. But anyway, I started asking them what they thought would be the most useful thing for the field in terms of advancing family philanthropy. And what we decided was that it was impractical to assume that every one of those organizations was going to be able to develop expertise about family giving, but every single one of them needed it. So the regional associations here in Michigan or in the Southeastern Council or Northern California, the Jewish Federation in Cleveland or in Los Angeles, Bank of America and Citigroup, these people all were going to need it. Now the only way they were going to do it or access it, is if an independent, non-threatening, read noncompetitive, organization with a collaborative spirit about how it was going to develop it and share it, could be formed. And so I started doing the background work for what would become the National Center. It is so important for me to say that I did this work for over eight months with any sense that I was going to go and work there, none whatsoever. I was being a good staff person. I was Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 12 �facilitating discussions, writing concept papers, getting the papers tested. I did focus groups, individual interviews. What is this amorphous thing? I remember sitting in a little, tiny Italian restaurant in Washington with cocktail napkins, each with a separate word on them, while we mixed and matched what would the name of this thing be. You know, the biggest discussion was about the preposition. We really worked on that for. It was going to be for family philanthropy not on or of. I remember that, with no sense that I would work there. After a point in time I went, you know, this is going to be so cool; I hope they’ll give me a job. And I even thought I know exactly who should run this. I had it in my head who should run it. 00:42:32 And the very last focus group, a couple of things happened. One, someone came to the focus group who was affiliated with another organization and I think felt a little threatened by the concept of this organization getting going, thought it would somehow harm his baby. And he was a little feisty, scared the dickens out of the person I thought was going to run this. He later on was like, you know I just don’t think this was meant to be. And I was like, okay your participation or the organization? Because if it’s your participation that’s your call, but if what you’re saying is what’s not meant to be is this organization, I can’t accept that. And he said, well it was his participation. Well, I went frantic. The next day I was to meet with a prospective startup funder. And I, all of a sudden, don’t have anybody that’s going to run this. So the next morning, having been up all night screaming, crying, yelling, in the New York Hilton, I met two of the people who had been most involved, the two people who had been the most involved in the founding of it. And I’m telling them this story and they’re both looking at me like I’m nuts. And I was like, what? They said Ginny, there is not a person in this country who thinks the head of this organization is anybody but you. And I went, what are you crazy? No. I was honest to goodness, genuinely taken aback. I, all of a sudden doing good staff work for something I desperately believed in, shifted a little bit, both because I’d lost this person and because they’re telling me that’s not how all these people perceive it. And I will tell you quite specifically, I not only grew up with no ambition to be a CEO, I actively resisted it. For all the reasons I hadn’t really wanted to advance within the Council system, it wasn’t administration that was interesting to me. And may I please tell you that I left arts administration because I didn’t want to do public speaking and raise money? And (laughter) now all I do is public speaking and raise money. So I was really shocked. But I said, you know what, you guys need to give me some time to deal with this; but regardless, I will go to the meeting with the funder. And so I showed up at the office of this person who had been really forward thinking about how this [new center] could think differently about this, and that their organization could invest significantly in the concept. And really also understood that he needed to do stabilizing funding for the first, you know, six or seven, eight years, which was really terrific too. But he’s also treating this just de facto as if now you’re the president, and as the CEO this is what you’ll do and dadadadada. And I’m thinking oh gosh, do I have a lot of thinking to do, cause now I’ve gone from asking for a job to, this is yours to do. I left; this was all in New York in conjunction with my very last family conference. I went back to Washington. There were some things going on in the organization, some changes at the Council, and me just sort of cementing the fact that it was really time to move on. And I went home one night, and I, this is a little side out of one of those secret things you [rarely] tell people, Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 13 �I have a collection of the art used in creating the Disney classic movies. As a part of my wonderful renaissance art background I developed an interest in animation. So in my house are all these cartoons and drawings from the great nine old men of Disney and they’re mostly in my den. So I went home and, something I’ve never done before, I pulled this blanket, sort of, up to my chin and this incredible calm came over me. And I said, "You’re going to do this. And the worse thing that can happen is a few cartoons are going to come off the wall." You know, it wasn’t the investment in the money, it wasn’t the risk of it, it was just, the right thing. And it was so much the right thing that I felt, I wasn’t even euphoric, I wasn’t sad, I was just very, very calm. And it wasn’t the way when I hired my first [staff] person. I threw up for two days hiring somebody else. I could take the risk myself but the thought of being responsible for somebody else made me nuts. But it was really the right thing to do. And the whole notion was that this organization would be very collaborative, very noncompetitive. We weren’t going to be a consulting firm. We weren’t going to be a competitor membership association. Everyone assumed we were going to compete with the Council and the Regional Associations. And I’ll be very candid with you, if back then in 1997 we had opened up the National Center for members; we would have had hundreds of members, because in my first six months I got two hundred inquiries for how to join. But I had to keep saying to people, we want you to support the membership organizations that you already support. We want to work with and through them. And that and I had to say to consulting firms and people that were advising donors, I don’t want to be a consulting firm. I’m not going to compete with you. I want to know what you’re doing and if you’re doing good work we want to be able to send families to you, but we’re not your competitors. If I published a major piece for the field, [I] didn’t want to put Bank of America’s name on it, because then Wachovia wouldn’t use it. So I had to deal with all of this how are we collaborative? And we found the exact right [name]. Thanks to a very, very good, strong, strong founding board, it developed really well. It has repercussions later on for the fact that collaboration doesn’t always build the best sustainable financial model, but it builds the best model to really be able to do this work in a very diverse field. But that’s, that’s how I ended up choosing, so I left my job at the Council in May of '97. I was supposed to have three months off. I was working on a four volume series of family foundations, huge; it was called the Family Foundation Library. It actually was delayed. It went all the way through my break, up through July, but I finished it. I learned to never agree to put out four giant books on the same day that all are going to fit in the same slip case. And I was going to take a nice long break before I started the National Center and I actually was driving to the designer’s on my way to Dulles. But I ended up leaving formally in July of '97. Worked again through August to get the book finished, and went off on a vacation and came back and the National Center, while I was in Ireland, the National Center’s incorporation papers came through. And when I came back to the U.S. they told me that, and so on September 8th I went to work. All by myself. JS: Aside from some of this business of convincing people that you’re not a competitor, you’re not a consultant, you’re not up to anything, what would you regard maybe as the biggest challenge of getting this thing up and running? 00:50:34 Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 14 �GE: Well there were a couple. Obviously the first one was, this person who had always been, who had done some administrative work but was largely a good program person, a good education type person, already had to run out, while I was doing that library series, learn how about nonprofit law, nonprofit incorporation, nonprofit finance. I had to find space. I had to find materials. The startup grant got delayed because of a funny hitch in the fund that was releasing the startup money. And so I figured out that it was a really good thing that none of my credit cards at the time had anything on them because I could max them out buying office equipment (laughter). I’ll never forget one of my favorite startup memories of the National Center is standing once in an Office Max, or whatever it was, Depot, whatever it was, with a friend of mine, holding a fax machine going, "Is it the MasterCard or the Visa that I still have room on?" (laughter) And so part of it was just me shifting gears. You can’t afford to just be a program person when you have to run an organization. And the first thing I had to do was build a great team of people who believed in this: a great attorney, a great financial advisor, a good human resources person, and a terrific board. I read everything there was to read about founders of nonprofits and the mistakes they’ve made. I really did. And I had a little list of all the things I was going to be cautious about doing. For example, I read that one of the biggest mistakes founders make and their boards let them make is that they start a board and they put everybody on it who just loves them dearly, and is going to "amen" everything they say. And that can’t happen, that just can’t happen. There was so much personal identification with me because of this; there had been a fair amount of notoriety in leaving the Council on Foundations. Seventeen years I’d been there. One woman wrote me a note, I’m sure she meant it to be a compliment when I was leaving, she said, "I can’t believe you’re leaving, you’re like a fixture." And I was like, oh my god, I’m the plumbing of the Council on Foundations. But there was a fair amount of notoriety, and I use the word notoriety, there were some people who were very happy and there were some people who were very angry. And so I really wanted the National Center to be more than the place Ginny landed. So I needed it to be not so identified with Ginny. So I decided (working with some people who really understood governance and nonprofit governance) we were going to put the board in thirds. I was going to pick one third people who loved me. Not that who would say everything I did was wonderful, but they were very supportive, and I could trust their judgment…a lot. The second, I was going to [choose] people who I sort of vaguely knew in the field, but I had a lot of respect for their approach. And another third, people who never knew anything about me but who either represented a wonderful diverse perspective or position, brought something wonderful to the group. I also wanted a board that wasn’t all family foundations. There were going to be community foundations and banks and advisors and consultants. It was, you know, fabulous. Nobody thought this group could work together. It was wonderful. So the first thing was converting a program person to a nonprofit executive, and everything that came with it. And it would have been very easy to have stayed in the program mode and just tell people just be nice to me because this is really hard, you know. The second thing which in some way was fundamentally more important and probably more difficult, although when it’s finally started to happen it was really brilliant and very reinforcing. You asked a question that my board asked at our first board retreat. We decided at the board meeting that winter, by the fall of 1998 we were going to have our very first board retreat. I had worked on this wonderful program. We were meeting at Pocantico which was [on] the Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 15 �Rockefeller estate up in Terrytown, Hudson [River] area of New York. I thought, how great to be on the grounds of one of [the great] philanthropic families, first family. And the day our retreat started was the day of my mother’s funeral. And I had to fly from the funeral to Tarrytown, and I hadn’t been to bed for three days. And I just remembered here was this incredibly important meeting and there were a lot of people going, maybe you should just stay home. And I was like, what are you kidding? So finally I got there and I said, "Okay, the only thing I want you to do," and I said this to my chair, I couldn’t say it to the whole group, "Just don’t ask me anything hard." I said, "Please don’t ask me anything hard. I have no brain. It’s so mush." And you can laugh about it now because the circumstances were comical; at the time they were just miserable. But you just talked about all the things we weren’t. And that was what we spent a lot of time telling people. Well at this board retreat, I had one particularly insightful board member, who I wanted to kill, say, "I think I understand all the things we’re not and why. What do we stand for? Ginny, would you like to take that question?" (laughs) JS: Gee, thanks. 00:56:38 GE: Yes, really, so much for nothing hard. And I did what every good facilitator did was I punted it around for a little bit and said, "Let me throw that back to you and let’s get into a discussion." But what it did is it affirmed the fact that we could comfort people by telling people what we weren’t going to do to hurt them. But to inspire and engage them we had to get them behind what we were. And it led, that discussion, led to me going back to Washington and creating the statement of values and guiding principles for the organization. It was almost like, and if you’ll please forgive the self aggrandizement this appears, but as a great student of American history, why people thought it was important that the American colonies had to articulate why? They just didn’t want people to assume why there had to be a revolution and this statement of independence. I said, "Oh my, it is the same thing. We have to have a statement where we articulate what we are and why and why this has value." And not only that, but it could not be lofty. It had to be grounded. And we had to put that statement out and say, If you ever see us do something that is contrary to one of these values or principles, you need to call us on it because we want you to do that. And so I would say the second hardest thing was reaching the decision that we needed to do that work, to do it with a very full heart, and with a real strong sense of what that was going to say to the world about what we were. And I’m very, very, I’ve written so many things in my life, I am no more proud of anything other than that statement. And it really did, it was our chance to say this is what’s important to us. And I’m really happy, on our tenth anniversary we had the board review the statement to see if it was holding up, and it absolutely did. They wrote, well they approved, a timeless sort of statement that was at the same time very relevant. So I would say those two things were the hardest for me both on personal levels, one operational, one fundamental. JS: What was it essentially that you said you stood for? [Change tapes.] JS: We were at a point in the conversation where I was asking, can you just lay out briefly what you see the core values really are? Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 16 �0060:10 GE: Well first of all, one of the things that we wanted to say was that we valued all family philanthropy. We valued all of the vehicles people could choose. We valued all the motivations and, you know, inspiration that brought them to this point and all of the variety of program and vehicle options that they had. We believed in excellent, ethical, effective philanthropy but beyond that, we had a great respect for the diversity of options and choices that people would make. We wanted to be a very, very collaborative organization. We valued our colleagues in this role; we wanted to support their work and their ability to serve their family constituencies. And we were going to be very respectful partners in that work. And we valued the voices of families. Everything that we did was going to have that lens. And when we wrote, we were writing for the whole field we hoped, but the family perspective, the family voice, was going to be included. And so we were going to shift the way we had, that philanthropy had been writing specifically for a staff audience, and we were going to write as if every opinion and perspective had value. For example, it’s not enough for me to put out a paper on funding the environment for program officers, if I’m not going to write also for trustees about why should this be a priority or how do you want to think about this as a priority. So we were going to change and make sure that that perspective was respected and valued. And we wanted to the extent we could, to tell it through the stories of families that we wanted to be that voice, we wanted to have that trust, we wanted it to have that honesty and that integrity. And so there are actually about nine or so principles. Don’t give me a quiz. At one point I could probably do it. But then the second thing that as I said was very important is beneath each principle we wrote how our work was going to reflect that. And we were essentially saying to the field, we expect to be held accountable. And part of that, I would have to say overwhelmingly ninety-five percent of that, was that chance to articulate what you value and how you were going to work. Five percent of it was because there was still a lot of controversy. And we wanted to respond to that, not in a defensive way, not into answering attacks, but as if to say, this is who we are and you have every right to be concerned if we do something other than this. JS: Because of this, the emphasis that you’ve got, a lot of these family foundations in many cases are local or regional or you’re reaching out to state and local councils and so forth, you go all over the place; you talk to all sorts of people in the process. And we’re in an area right here in Grand Rapids where we have, it’s a small city, but it is a city. It’s got some major businesses based here. There’s a certain number of families with their own foundations that have done very significant things locally and beyond. How characteristic is the Grand Rapids area or West Michigan of other regions in the country? Do we have things here that are distinctive in certain ways or do we fit a pattern that you see a lot of? 00:64:00 GE: Let me start with a little bit of the how I came to know about this, the preface, because it’s a great coming around to where we started, and then talk specifically about western Michigan. First of all you remember my second day at the Council and that filing cabinet about regional associations? I took to them like crazy. And that group of the regional associations around the country, the Council of Michigan Foundations, the New York Regional Association, Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 17 �Philanthropy Northwest, you name it, and my very first programmatic job was working with all of them, and I worked with them my entire career. When the National Center got started, the regional associations were the most open to working with the National Center. They were the first at the plate to say, We have family members, how can you come and help us do this work better? They were the first group to start inviting me out to their area and it was all because of this relationship we’d been building up since 1980. So and Michigan, as I said to you that very first meeting in 1980, there was the president [Dottie Johnson], then president of the Council of Michigan Foundations. So I had really gotten to know their organizations and staff, and to some extent their membership as well. First of all, they were willing to accept me in a very different role. Now I’m not this educational facilitator, I’m this sort of program expert or whatever. And I came out and started listening. And western Michigan was very clearly one of the areas I needed to pay attention to. In some ways it is incredibly distinctive and in other cases quite representative. Let’s start with the distinctive. You say Grand Rapids is this small city. For a small city it has a very, very rich, very vibrant family philanthropic community. The numbers of families who are extraordinarily generous and active here is uncharacteristic of cities this size without a doubt. You have only to walk around this campus and look at the names on buildings to get a real sense of not only how diverse and rich this community is in philanthropy, but in how committed they are to western Michigan. That is one of the areas where it is fairly typical too, that many family philanthropies start with a very strong commitment to the region in which they’re based, even when the family begins to move away from that. They really, really care about that community, having a university, having an opera, having, you know, a good Y, having whatever it might be as you look around Grand Rapids. This is very, very typical of the kind of commitment families tend to have to their region. But there’s just nothing typical about the numbers of families, the extent to which they’ve been generous for a city its size, you expect to see this in a city much larger. And I know of much larger cities that don’t have the same profile, for whatever reasons, they don’t have the same profile or the same sort of picture of family giving. JS: One of the things that at least stands out to a more general audience in this area is, you have a certain number of families that are fairly visible with their giving and in a lot of cases the first generation founders are either still alive or are of the World War II generation and have passed on only recently. But now we’re seeing future generations kind of getting involved and doing different things and spinning off in different directions. That kind of thing is going to happen with family foundations across the country. What particular types of problems do you see confronting family foundations that are really sort of front burner issues now for you? GE: Well let’s split that community out to the two you talked about. For those foundations that were formed during the big, big period of foundation formation, 194660, there is a tremendous period going on right now of foundation transition. Transitions are the most vulnerable and the most exciting. They hold the most potential for promise and for disaster. We did an almost eight year study of multigenerational family philanthropy in this country. It was the first one ever done, published a few years ago, and transitions were a huge focus of that, because some families handled them very well and some don’t. So the biggest transition is a transition of leadership and participation. And that’s just one. Who will be called into service? Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 18 �Are they well prepared for that? Are they committed to this work? Are they doing it by duty or by choice? Who will provide leadership? Who will be left off? So there’s a whole set of very difficult choices around leadership succession, everything from inspiring and preparing to selecting leadership. There’s a huge programmatic transition. To what extent will this philanthropy be able to continue the work it has been doing? Within the parameters of the intentions and instructions left behind, is the family still committed to that same area? What if everybody left western Michigan? Is the money going with them? Are they still going to have some sense of legacy and responsibility to what the donor’s original giving looked like? What if the family is just all over the map in terms of their interests? Where they live? And what if their sense of the family philanthropy is, not so much, ask not what you can do for your foundation, ask what your foundation can do for you, you know, and if that is the case, how do you switch the dynamic? So the second big difficulty and struggle for those foundations is understanding what it is we’re going to do together. To what extent are we looking for a shared sense of purpose, a shared giving mission? And to what extent are we going to accommodate individual perspective and interests? And that’s a huge dynamic that starts at about the third generation. And depending on the number of family members, gets more or less difficult. Depending how many of them have moved away, how many of them have married people that understand the dynamic or fight the dynamic. So there’s a whole generational succession around family and there’s a whole generational succession around program. Both of those provide ample opportunity for struggle. For newer foundations I think that’s a different kind of struggle, not only newer foundations but all the new vehicles. Because in that case there’s been tremendous momentum and real vitality about how these people, mostly younger people, you know. The notion that this is something that happens in your seventies, well that’s just changed. This is some- I mean very, very, wonderful philanthropic leaders at a very young age, people who have been running their very own philanthropies in their fifties for awhile, and this is not something you do in that last stage of your life anymore. For them the challenges are different. Do they want to engage another generation? How do they feel about perpetuity? Not so much for some of them. And there’s been a lot of knocks to some of those great late 20th century donors. The economy has certainly caught them up short. There’s been criticism of some of the way they approached this work or did this work. Did they make enough of this decision, enough of that decision? Were they respectful enough? Were they active enough, generous enough? And so for them I think the challenge is how do you maintain that momentum and vitality? How do you take that enthusiasm with which you entered this, and find a way to sustain it as something that’s an important part of who you are, and then whether or not it’s going to be an important part of your life and your children's’ lives going forward? So I sort of compartmentalize them that way. JS: What kinds of problems have really come up from the large scale economic downturn like we’ve had? You have a lot of money in investments and the investments vanish. What happens to family foundations, what kinds of things happen to them at that point? GE: Most family foundations in the last year or two lost between, average thirty to forty percent of their assets. That’s an amazing hit. JS: Cause these are endowments that generate the funding for everything. Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 19 �GE: These are endowments, exactly. Now there are a lot of people in advised funds and other kinds of giving vehicles where it might be pass through, not that they weren’t hit either, you might have less to pass through. But for those who put money aside to ensure that the giving was always there for the community, that endowment took a thirty to forty percent hit. And that’s significant, some it was more, but thirty to forty percent. The good news is that we’re starting to see the ones that stuck it out, recovering. Some panicked and pulled it out, so they’re not recovering so quickly. But for those that took the hit, lots came on the table. “Oh my gosh. I truly knew that it was good philanthropic practice to make multiyear grants. I wanted my grantees to be able to count on the fact that they were going to get money every year for three years whatever it might be. That’s good practice, it stabilizes them, it’s good for me. Well I might have made those promises based on one set of assets, and now I’m dealing with another set. So that may cause me to do everything from realize that, do I really want to do multi-year grants in the future? Even though I’ve been told there’s such good practice for grantees?” Or, “all of the money that I have for discretionary giving is tied up in promises that I made two years ago, what do I do with all these people who have critical needs right now? Do I end up going above a threshold of payout that means I’m dipping into principle? I may be, you know, fundamentally endangering the ability of the corpus to go forward especially if I’m interested in perpetuity. How do I make the most effective choices now? Do I pick a few organizations I really care about and do my best to sustain them, or do I try and take a lot of organizations that are struggling and make small grants?” There are a lot of choices. And so for families, the economy presented all of those. JS: What do you do for those families? Or what kind of assistance can you provide? 00:15:05 GE: Well first of all one of the first things that we did is that almost immediately when we realized what was happening, we commissioned a fairly immediate, we were not going to be able to do a long, longer term study, [we’d] do that later. But we did a very intense canvassing of the family philanthropy community and asked them, How are you responding to the economic crisis? What issues are you facing? How have you made choices? What helped guide you in those choices? What resources were helpful? And we immediately put out a major paper. I think it was called something, Families Step up: Dealing with an Economic Crisis. We wanted people to understand these issues are things we’re all facing. Here are some questions that we think you need to answer more immediately. And here are some that you may see more fundamental to your choices going forward. And one of the things we were trying to do was to help people not start questioning their long term strategy, we don’t want people to start dumping multi-year grants because of the immediacy of need, but we did want them to be able to answer some questions. We also wanted to give them some models of how their colleagues were handling this, so that they could see some options in this. We wanted to be prepared as a staff to what these issues were and [how] we were called on [to help.] The interesting thing was, the National Center is a grantmaking resource center, but in order to do its work it has to be a grantseeking organization. So we were sort of caught at the crosshairs of this too. People had less money for us too. Our phones never rang off the hook as Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 20 �much as they did [then]. With everyone from trying to figure out what do I do, to I lost everything. [Or,] my attorney general is after me because I invested with Bernie Madoff. What do I do? So I mean we heard it all. But one of the next things we did was try to identify the two or three fundamental [issues] being tested by the economy. And one of the most significant was payout and perpetuity. And so we immediately went into work to help people understand how they could begin to think about those. There were a lot of foundations that said, Do I have to give up my commitment to perpetuity? Some said, I absolutely do have to give it up. I’ve got to get money into these nonprofits and I’ve got to do it now. If I’m in trouble, god knows they are. So a lot of people started worrying about this. But we had other families go, wait a second; we’re not giving up our commitment to perpetuity. But we’re certainly going to step up the payout, because they need it. Now, when this crisis is over, we’ll reassess and reevaluate. And maybe we go back to a practice where we’re still committed to perpetuity. It might be off of a smaller corpus. But we’re not going to not be there for the people. And the one thing about family philanthropy that distinguishes it is this is not a professional obligation. This is not a dispassionate kind of activity. Last night [I was part of] a conversation, [and] we had this moment where we touched on self interest versus community interest. Families don’t see those as distinct. They’re part of the community. If they care about things in the community, if it’s important to them, they assume it’s important to the community. And since the community are the ones teaching them and helping form their commitments, they see that sort of synergistic relationship, but more importantly they can’t imagine their communities without these nonprofits. And so for them it’s not a matter of, I’m sorry I’m keeping to five percent, I’ll see you after the crisis is over. These are organizations they’ve been committed to in some cases for generations. And in some cases they’ve served on their boards. They know how much they mean to the community. This is not a bloodless transaction. They feel, you know, what’s going on so it’s really very, very stressful. Now this does not mean there have not been foundations who go, nope we’re going to try and keep as close as we can, but for the most part family foundations will stick with the grantee for a longer time and payout an amount greater than other kinds of philanthropies. So payout, perpetuity, those kinds of issues, very much called into practice. That’s what we could do and do more immediately. And do a lot of handholding. Oh my. JS: That kind of gets us back, sort of, to the people which is kind of where I wanted to wind up. I mean you had sort of mentioned the Lucile Packard story with the idea there that an awful lot of this involved that joy, I really think you’re doing something important and valuing it. You’ve gone out and talked to a lot of family members from these foundations, and so forth, and in this country and in other places in the world, and so forth, and are there, I expect there’s a lot of them, but are there particular examples of some of these people that you meet where that quality kind of stands out in terms of the way they talk about what they’re doing or how they value what other, people kind of stick with you a little bit in your mind more than others? 00:20:19 GE: Specifically, specific individuals? Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 21 �JS: Yes, well you don’t have to name them necessarily, but the kinds of things— GE: No absolutely. First of all I’m always, always impressed that family members want to talk about their grantees. And the sort of lighting up of the face comes from talking about the people that they’ve funded and that sort of inspired them. I mean the notion that so many of them sort of want to be calling the shots. There’s almost this living vicariously through the wonderful work of grantees that I love. I was speaking recently with someone, there was a study commissioned recently on the role of sabbaticals for nonprofit executives and a group of family foundations commissioned it. And I was talking and what I was appreciating is an example of that particular story, is that when this person talked about the nonprofit leaders in the community, she was talking about them as this enormous community resource, and that the leadership of those people had to be as valued as any other political or business leader that that community relied on. And that the opportunity to give them a chance to take a break, to renew, to energize, and to come back; she said for small amounts of money sabbaticals cost [they could do this]; it's a small foundation. She said what we’re able to do to say, Look we can’t do this work we don’t have your passion your talent but we could do whatever we can to support you. Now a lot of foundations wouldn’t think of supporting a sabbatical as a program, project, you know, operating, whatever it is, grant. She saw that value of leadership and they inspired her quite a bit. Another thing that I love, I’ve met and I’m thinking of someone in the Midwest who at a time when it was very unpopular recognized that they were doing some things, and they had historically been involved in voter registration projects and a lot of things that were controversial at the time. This family not only had a very, very large family philanthropy, they had a very, very prominent international business. And there came a time when the reputation of the business was being attacked because of the work of the philanthropy. And this leader, the head of the family, had to say at one point, we weren’t going to back off. If the business was harmed because we believed in voter registration or the job training projects or whatever as we might be doing in the south, mostly they were funded in the south, that’s the way it’s going to be. But this is what we do. But what I loved about that was the behind the scenes story, because it was, this donor was incredibly enlightened please don’t get me wrong, and he was very, very committed to the work, but at one point, as I understood it, he was feeling a little vulnerable cause he was the CEO. And he was, well maybe I should be paying attention to them, am I doing the wrong thing? And at that moment his sister who was also very prominent, very active in the community, very big leader in the company, stockholder, called her brother she knew exactly the moment he needed to be called and going, "I am so proud of the work we’re doing in the south. I’ve never been more proud to be a member of this family or a stockholder of this corporation." And it was just the thing he needed to say, "Our business could be hurt by our giving and we’re going to, we’re going to suffer through that if that’s what it takes." I mean, there absolutely have been. I remember once the wonderful privilege of talking to Irene Diamond and most people would know Irene Diamond because I think as the story goes, she’s the woman who discovered the script that became Casablanca. But she also married Aaron Diamond and who was very well off. [They] had a foundation in the mid-80s about the time America was understanding something called AIDS. And they had a large, large foundation, the Aaron and Irene Diamond Foundation. And the two of them thought about this crisis and what it was doing to the communities they knew and cared about. They were based in New York. And Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 22 �they realized that for them perpetuity wasn’t going to be the answer. This was a crisis and they wanted to step up. And they committed to a ten year spend out of what I think was about $160 million. And they were going to do everything they could to influence the AIDS crisis in this country. They were going to put money into medical research, they were going to put it into hospice, and they were going to put it into education and prevention. And many, many of the breakthroughs in the way we helped prepare people, treated people, and did research, were possible because of a massive commitment to doing something bold, and something not really popular if you think about the mid-80s; we were all still talking about blame back then. And they were like, this is not the time. And they did. And they had a wonderful executive director who worked with them to go out and learn everything they could about a crisis that was still in the making. They almost had to become the experts, and to spend that money well and spend it in a finite period of time. That was genuinely, genuinely important to them. And yet I go up to the family in the Pacific Northwest, its six generations at the table later and you look at Laird Norton, which was Weyerhaeuser money. And you realize that here’s a family where the six generations of adults of philanthropists is still getting together, still talking about what this means to the family, and how we do it well. And it’s really a wonderful image for me to carry when I go to that first generation family who’s going, oh my goodness, how do we get started? How do we get started? But so many people who’ve just taken that moment, that great story, and helped me understand it. And I think the nicest thing for me is, I have interviewed hundreds and hundreds of families, and one of the things I’ve discovered is that first of all most people are a little reticent to talk about their giving. Now, it’s not because they’re necessarily unassuming people or even that they’re necessarily humble, but this is not something they think they do, they do it out of passion, they hope they do it well and they’re even proud of it. But they don’t know that what they do as such is an example for other people. And or they think if I talk about it, it sort of feels a little messy. But when I tell somebody that if you’ll talk to me about your experiences, especially the things where maybe it didn’t go so well, somebody else could learn from it, all of a sudden, oh, I’m going to talk to you. I’m going to help you. And if somebody else could benefit from this then of course I will. I mean so the generosity isn’t just financial. It really is, if I can share the experience… But there are people who have been just profoundly moving. I mean, it’s not that it’s without error but they, all that they feel, is palpable, the responsibility they feel, the privilege they feel, which essentially is what Lucile was saying. A woman that I interviewed for the most recent piece talked about the fact that she really thinks that this is a way that the family can relate to the community in very important ways, important to the family, and important to the community that we care about this. What can we do well? She feels that sense of partnership. And she’s the one who said to me, sometimes we underestimate the love part of philanthropy. Especially when you think that the word [philanthropy] itself [means] love of mankind. And she said, you know, it’s the best part. It’s the best part. And I think that’s an interesting dilemma for me personally because I live in this environment where effectiveness is everything, and I sit down and people will say to me, Well how do you measure your impact? Not just those outputs, how do you measure your impact? And I hear donors talking about that, and I think it’s very important that people understand what it is they’re trying to accomplish, and whether they’re getting to that. But I loved too the quote in the most Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 23 �recent study where someone says, "I hope that doesn’t lead us to a place where there’s a disdain for the more charitable work that is sometimes needed in a community." Because it is important to be effective and have evaluation processes that make you understand whether or not you’re being effective, but it’s also important that the caring that you bring to this is evident. It’s the best way to keep you grounded and engaged and certainly the most inspiring way for me. JS: I think you’ve told us quite a bit here about what family philanthropy is really all about, and in certain ways what is distinctive about this as an area, and why it’s important to actually both study it and find effective ways to support it without trying to impose some other kind of external model upon it. And so I think at this point I would like to thank you for coming in and taking the time to talk to me. GE: Thank you very much. It was really a terrific experience. Thanks. I learned a lot myself. Oral History Interview with Virginia Esposito, February 18, 2010 24 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/18d0c22260146a022c4ac28bd9b0996b.mp4 043263538161006e6d70c79896e1f14f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8f3c0d47969306503dc14a785a70f4b3.mp4 66e4ddf1199a54e4e4926afc7f728397 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project Interviews Subject The topic of the resource Philanthropy and society--Personal narratives Family foundations--Michigan Charities--Michigan Description An account of the resource The Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project (MPOHP) was initiated in 2006 as an innovative partnership between the Council of Michigan Foundations, StoryCorps, Michigan Radio and the Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership at Grand Valley State University to create an oral history of Michigan philanthropy. Additional video interviews were created by the Johnson Center for Philanthropy to add to the depth and breadth of the collection. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/516">Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project (MPOHP) (JCPA-08). Johnson Center for Philanthropy Archives</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-05-02 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Sound Text Moving Image Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf video/mp4 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JCPA-08 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2006-2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson Center for Philantrhopy Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource StoryCorps (Project) Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/516">Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project (JCPA-08)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Esposito, Virginia video interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Esposito, Virginia Description An account of the resource Virginia Esposito (Ginny) is the Founding President of the National Center for Family Philanthropy. She discusses her early life, education, and work as teacher and administrator at the Council on Foundations, and CEO of the National Center for Family Philanthropy. She also discusses meeting inspiring international leaders, experiences with her mentor Paul Ylvisaker, the origins and development of the National Center, regional associations of grantmakers, and the Grand Rapids philanthropic community. She shares discoveries from hundreds of her interviews with families about family foundation transition, the economic issues of payout and perpetuity, and the challenges and feelings of responsibility and joy of foundation giving. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership, Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Philanthropy and society Personal narratives Charities Michigan Associations, institutions, etc. Women Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JCPA-08_EspositoV Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Relation A related resource Johnson Center for Philanthropy Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-02-18 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/41a057d7ad6bbfe4ad786db778c789bc.mp4 a4e7c1612255c9057919f7097231afca https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/83c2da3e6777538e61535ec0955ec375.pdf 716581d00de400c474d446bc88b53942 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Jane Evans Length of Interview: 31:59 (00:37) JS: We’re talking today with Jane Evans, who had two husbands in the war. Not at exactly the same time. And she’s going to tell us a bit about both of them, and their experiences as well as her own experience being married to a soldier. To start with, could you tell us when you married your first husband and what you and he were doing then. (01:04) JE: At the end of three years of college, I left the college and went and married him. I married him in San Antonio. With my mother and mother in law along. We didn’t expect to have anybody watch us, see us at the, where we were supposed to have our wedding. But the whole church was filled with people. They were going to meet later on, to have another service, so they came to watch us too. JS: And what were you doing in San Antonio? JE: He was there in the flight school. And he was there, well, I guess it started out at Kelly, it was already beyond that. And he was at Randolph Field and Brooks Field. Which he graduated from. (02:15) JS: So maybe let’s back up a little from then. Before you were married, when did you meet him? What year, roughly? JE: Well, I’d known him for years because he was caddying at Silver Lake. And I went out there. And he went to school with me. He was five years older, but he went to the same school. So we knew each other for years. JS: And what year did you get married? JE: You would ask that. (laughs) 1941, I think. JS: Okay. Was he in the service at that time? JE: Yeah. He’d been in the service for two years, maybe. JS: Had he volunteered? JE: No. He was drafted. �(03:08) JS: And what do you know, or what did he tell you about his initial experience, in being drafted and being trained? What did you learn about that? JE: Well, not a whole lot. He was at Camp Livingston to start with and they went on patrol more than once. And I know that one time, there was a man behind him who was killed because he had a coral snake kill him. And needless to say, Roy wrote and told me about that. And I really, I didn’t think that there was anything down there that could bother him, you know? Ha ha. He also told how all the boys had chiggers. They had trouble with them. And he, being a chemist and an engineer, at Wolverine, went and had the doc prepare a substance that he could use down there. And he took a lot of it down there. Sold it off for cost. (04:33) JE: So, let’s see, what else. I know both men had the same experience of living in the south. They didn’t like it, either of them. JS: What did they not like about living in the south? JE: The heat. The people were not very friendly. They would take periods of time to go into town, you know? And the nearest town to Camp Livingston, I can’t remember the name of it. But they found that people were not very friendly to them. And I can understand that easily. We had the weather school here that time and most of the boys felt that we were pretty friendly. That we tried to have them come out to our houses and eat, and that kind of thing. And I know that more than one gal got engaged to some guy from that. (05:35) JE: So…but that was their feeling about that, that it was not very friendly and it was hotter than hell. And they got everything you can think of in the way of diseases. JS: And how was it that your husband switched from being in an infantry division to being in the Air Corps? (06:02) JE: I guess he just looked at it and decided that it was not for him. And that he wanted to fly planes instead. And he did. He passed everything and he got his wings. I know a couple of other guys went with him at the time. Woody Bacheholder for one. And they ended up not piloting but bombardiers or whatever. But Roy was in the pilot seat. I went flying with him, when we were down at B-25 school. He took me up one afternoon, on his plane. I don’t know whether that was permitted or not, but he never said much about it, so I assume it was okay. (07:07) JS: After you were married, did you live together off base, or how did your living arrangements work? JE: Well, I was living off base. In fact, over there in that one album, is all the pictures of all the places I stayed. All the things I had to deal with. I was never homesick though. Just having him �there. There was Mrs., oh, gosh, what was her name? Anyway, she was a heart patient. And she didn’t have too good of a heart, evidently. She spent a good bit of time in bed. But she rented out the house to three of us gals, I think. And we could use the kitchen down there, for kitchen privileges. JS: Were they all married to men… JE: I knew nothing about cooking, of course. At that time. But I learned. And one of the gals went right away, soon, with her husband, somewhere else, but the other gals stayed with me, pretty much. I have a picture of us, in there. (08:32) JS: And how long were you living there before your husband shipped out? JE: Oh, he didn’t ship out at all really. He never went overseas. He was killed right here in Michigan. Up at Glennie. He was towing targets for the French guys who were coming over to learn it, I guess. I know he said it was on their radio, they had this chatter in French thing. But I stayed with him down there in San Antonio for maybe four or five months. And then we were transferred someplace else. And we bought a convertible, a used convertible. And we enjoyed the life down there pretty much. And then we were transferred to, gosh, I can’t remember. (09:49) JE: I think we were transferred first to some place in Pennsylvania, and then we were sent to B25 school down in South Carolina. And we lived in Florence, South Carolina, for a while. Then we went to Cape Cod. We got through with that and then we went to Otis Air Force Base, I think it was called. And some of the same people went with us. So we had a little gang, you might say. Then, after he got through there, we went to Delaware. And John was born in Delaware. At the field. We were trotting around New York all that day, trying to find him a pair of shoes, without too much success. My mother was with us by that time, too. She had come to be with me for the baby. And so we three were all trotting around New York. And we got into Delaware that night, early that evening, 6, 7, and I had the baby that night. So strange. (11:34) JS: Was the Army providing medical care for you? I mean, was there a base hospital that you were using, or… JE: Well, no. There wasn’t any Army base hospital there. I did have an Army doctor, however, who delivered the baby. ‘Cause I can remember him saying, what’s this gal’s name again? (laughter) So they put me on the…they didn’t have the arrangements to have anybody there, really. And so they put me right on the operating table, and there I laid. Thank God it wasn;t too long, no more than four hours from start to finish. Which for a first baby is pretty fast, I guess. And then we went to, after we were done in Delaware there, my husband was sent up to Oscoda Air Force Base, up here in Michigan. And so we rented a cottage on that lake that was there. What, Lake Huron. Then of course it got cold and so we had to leave the cottage. (13:01) �JE: Find a place in town. He was killed up there. JS: And then, what did you do after he died? JE: Came home, again. I’d been home, too, before. After he left Delaware, I came home for a little while, until he knew what he was going to do and where he was going to go. And he had sold the car and got another car. Thought it was better for a baby, I guess. And so we went up there for maybe seven, eight months. I don’t know how long. I know that he was killed when Johnny was seven months old. And I expected him to take me to the doctor that day and he didn’t come, and didn’t come, and I was thinking, good god, where is he? Next thing, the captain and his wife were at the door and I thought, oh, geez. (14:19) JS: Did they explain to you what happened? JE: They told me he’d been killed. Three others with him. Just along for the ride. ‘Cause he was trying out a plane that had come in from Selfridge Field. And they did that quite frequently, tested them out to go back to overseas. JS: So that was his regular assignment? To test fly aircraft and to tow targets? JE: Yep. His group went overseas. And I was due to have the baby right then, and the captain was very very nice to us and let him stay until the baby came. I thought then he’d be sent over with the others, but he wasn’t. So I came home and stayed a couple of years. And we went down to Florida once and took the kids and another wife, who had been widowed, with Roy, and we all went down there and stayed for a few months. (15:49) JE: And I rented the house, so we couldn’t go back into it until…I can’t remember what the dates were now. JS: And how did you meet your second husband? I’d known him. I’d gone to school with him. Not to school with him, but he was in the same grade as I was. And I dated him, before the second marriage ever took place. And he went to Culver. We went down there. I went down there with his folks for graduation. And he asked me to marry him, before I could finally take a deep breath. JS: And when was that, then? Was that still during the war or was it after? (16:59) JE: No, that was after the war. In fact, right after. Vern was in Munich. In Munich as a fuel allocator. He was expecting to go to Japan, of course, like everybody else, and they didn’t have to, of course, because of the bomb. JS: What do you remember about his time in the service? �JE: Well, he was overseas in the service. From the time he finished college, he finished and went to Fort Belvoir, to get his officer’s training. And then he was sent overseas. Actually, he was at Normoyle, in San Antonio, when we were down there. Because we got together with him one night. And took him out some place, I don’t remember where now. (18:21) JE: Took him out then. But he went to Fort Belvoir and then overseas. JS: And what area did he serve in? JE: He served in the Eastern, whatever you call Eastern. He was at Africa first. In fact, he said everybody got sick over there, that Thanksgiving. Everybody got sick at the Thanksgiving dinner. I don’t know what they did wrong but they did something. And he said everybody was sick, not a soul missed it. Including him. And then he was on [NZO/Enzio] as a just a soldier. Which he wasn’t, cause he belonged to the engineering corp. And he was an engineer. He graduated from Carnegie-Mellon. Carnegie Institute of Technology, in those days. (19:49) JE: So he built bridges after that. All along the…was it Patton that was supposed to be coming along? JS: Well, if he was in…did he switch from Italy up into France? Or did he stay in Italy? JE: He went from Italy right to the Rhone River. JS: Okay. So he would have been with the 7th Army and landed in the South of France and gone north. So that wouldn’t be Patton, but… JE: Whoever it was. JS: So he was basically rebuilding the bridges in France, just to support the Army? (20:27) JE: France, and in Germany, too. ‘Cause I know he said he built every bridge in that area, I think. With his team. JS: Well, the Allied Forces had destroyed all the bridges, so we needed to rebuild them in order to ship any supplies, so he had a lot of work to do. JE: He had a lot of work to do. I know that he and his group…it was a Company, so called. And he was in charge of that Company. As he said, he was the youngest person in the Company. He was all of twenty-one at the time. He said, it’s a good thing they took care of me, cause I didn’t know from nothing. JS: So what did he tell you about the guys that he was with? They were older than he was? Or they were construction workers, or…? �(21:22) JE: No, I think they were pretty much, had to have some experience with construction work, yeah. Of some sort. His sergeant was the one who kind of took care of him. He was new in the group, you know. And somebody had been killed, I guess, and they moved him in there. And he said he built bridges from then on. Sometimes they were getting shot at, too. JS: And you mentioned…did he tell any particular stories, or… JE: I can’t remember any. I know he did, but I can’t remember ‘em. JS: And what did they have him do when the war ended? (22:18) JE: They then took him into Munich. And made him…cause he didn’t have enough points to go home. And he thought he would go to Japan, but of course, nobody went to Japan. Except the one guy who flew it all over. And, so he worked there for a better part of a year, I think, before he came home. I know Roy had been killed quite a while before he came home. JS: Did he tell you anything about what it was like living in Germany after the war? What kind of an experience that was? (23:02) JE: Well, there wasn’t much. We went back, years and years later. In Munich. He ate in the Art Museum, and he ate there. He didn’t sleep there. I don’t know where he slept, he didn’t say. But they ate there. And he said everything there was torn down or destroyed pretty much, except for the one building that they left. And it was the building that had the little people that came out. Um, I can’t think of what it was called. I used to know it, too, but I… and he said that everybody was anxious to go to the United States. He said he could have had any girl over there, right then. (laughs) And I remember he got a letter from this Renee, after he got home, and she was his secretary I guess. And she was asking him to help her get over. (24:44) JS: How did the, aside from wanting to get to the United States, did he have a sense that they accepted the Americans or were there still people who were hostile? What kind of relationship did they have? JE: I don’t know, for generally, they were friendly. All friendly. It was kind of a situation where you have to do the best you can, you know? And for some guy to come in a take over the fuel allocation for that area… JS: And what did that involve? What did that fuel allocantion, what was he allocating and who did he allocate it to? JE: Well, he was allocating fuel for individual houses and everything. I mean, everything in the town. Such as it was. I know that he said there were people, when they were on their way to �that town, that there were people who came out of the woods, holding a white flag. They wanted to be taken as prisoner. (26:00) JS: so was the war over at that point and they didn’t know it or was it just toward the very end? JE: It was at the end. And they had decided…(break in recording)… about that. I know he said, going into Munich, they stopped the car and wanted to surrender. And there was quite a crowd of them, evidently. So the guy that was with him was higher in rank than he was and he seemed to know what he was doing, I guess. And so he had those guys go into some area. I know my husband, he never talked about it. You know, that was the thing. You never got anything out of him. Was that he liberated one of those concentration camps. I don’t know which one it was. (27:19) JS: Well, Buchenwald was near Munich, so that’s possible. Or Bergen-Belsen. JE: I don’t know. But he never talked about it. I could ask questions and he’d just grunt. So, never talked about it. Never talked about any of the stuff, except just casually through the years. JS: How do you think his wartime experience sort of affected him, or affected his later life? (27:52) JE: Oh…well, he became a controller for Reynolds Metal Corporation. And then he was sent from Grand Rapids to Phoenix, his boss wanted him to stay with him. He was going to Phoenix. He had us come out to Phoenix to take a look at it. As if you could see anything that way. (laughs) So we decided we could see the whole west and let’s do it. So we did. By then we had another baby. Well, we had two more, actually. And the fourth one was born out there. So, when we were living out there. Rick was the one who brought all this stuff in, in fact. (points over her shoulder) He’s the one that has my house, now. (29:01) JE: And so, he went through all that stuff and brought it in. I was amazed, that he could find that much. I said, get a picture of Roy in uniform and Vern in uniform. That’s all I really wanted. And this is what he brought. He said, I thought you’d enjoy seeing it, Mom. So, he’s 46 now. I have a daughter whose 59 and another son whose 62. And I had a daughter, the middle one, who committed suicide. Post-partum. There again, she went down to Florida and she didn’t like it, she had to live in a hotel. She didn’t like the house she got there. She was leaving a brand new house here in Muskegon that she was very happy with. They really had a hard time building it, they built it themselves. They had the base of it brought in, but they went from there, lived and learned. (30:40) JE: We built our own house here at Silver Lake, too. Lived there twenty five years and Rick has it now. �JS: Well, there the engineering experience may have come into play. He had some idea of what he was doing. JE: It did. The genes have passed down, too, because my grandson out in Arizona, or not in Arizona, but California, wrote and said, I fixed up so and so. I did so and so to my new house. I guess the genes are there to do it. So Rick has done a wonderful job, wonderful. He’s taken my house and changed it completely. The rooms are still pretty much the same but, he has completely re-done every touch of it. The house next door became a Parade of Homes house, after they finished it. Dr. [Kloistra] and his wife built that one. (31:52) JS: I think we’re probably done with the interview part… (31:59) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Evans, Jane (Interview transcript and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Evans, Jane Description An account of the resource Jane Evans is the widow of two WW II Veterans. Her first husband, whom she met in school before the War, died in a plane accident during a training mission in Michigan. Her second husband, whom she also met in school, was an engineer during the war. They married after he came home from his service building bridges throughout Europe and staying a year after the war was over, allocating heating fuel to homes in Germany. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Military spouses Veterans Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-05-29 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context EvansJ Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/04cf6971a3d63488dcef076de9efea11.pdf 38fe6e37037176f5cb83fd3c74b5812a PDF Text Text ( rf~J . · ~ /4 . ~ ~ .A ( ~ _c,2. 3 c#t:"1/, /R3.s- . . ./.,.,~ ~ / f1- ·tL-._ · qd. ~L~ ~ ~. . . ~;:;/_ .t-_ ,{;_ f~ . I .£16 .~ L a-. AM ~ 4- ~ J'_J~ A , ~ µ ~ a-.1· . ~ / c-k.J u,~7-e_L°.L 1 / ~~ J-/ . ~ ~ - LI /4 ~,.__,,,c ·~ .,. :, -~ · . · Pk,., ·. ~ ·- A ~ 2,._ . Ce.<;~ f M, _· d. ·_ I ~ ef- a /4 ./.,.__ iv~ l,A__ ~ ~ C<A, /_ , (4 . ~ · ~µ J J J ~ J1F- ·/4. · ~ /IL;;/,£,,; . ~ ~ .. k J ~ - . c; ~ . ~I. - . ~, L ~ ..k· ~/--, i h _·bi_, · . . . h/ ~ 0 lfo/Vf,<-4~ ~J J o t , . , . _ / - ~ -. ~ - 6,; J~ tY0~ ~~ . _J... . ~ - l e,,..,__ /4 . ~-- ~ ~ ·- ~ ~ · ,,.,,,. · j')UJ:i . 6> ~ -- ~ - ~ ~ . ,I- ,._,f'. _ .U~ /4 -. C ) ~ ,_[ e>- ~ --.. hu. ' ILi Ac._,;/ _~ . ·Jc~//- .. /4 C c/ ~ ~- c~2J;.-'- 7i_ I~ r ~ ,,; ~ - . rt>~ 7-Iv ~:z, r' !.I ~ ~~ ~ (4. . A . ~ ~ ·. ~ &.µ-- a -~ _1~,v1-- L ' . 11-c;vvkc/,;,___ . . r£ .· ]i ft~ JL . ' ~+ �I ' ~ V ~ a, 4~ L.,fr#-~ /c,1- ~ 12),._ ~ ~ ,- - . ~ ~_:.(;FT4. <4 _ ,1~ J 'J~.ft1 i ·~· . ~ . Jv- h. · 7 ., r . · /2<. - . /2 ~ .~ ~ . ~ ~ , J - - v/- / / ~ ~ /t: /1~~~.· .~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ /4- C: ./ ~ ~~. ·~ ~ ~- .~ . ~ · . . CJ-~ / ~ (A_,- #J.lr/7?~ ' . .!',-., . A-a-_ j:Jw_ . ~ . ·: ? ~74~ . k Md..· ,:,,('-' .. . / ' ~· ·~ . ~ e4!-.· -~-2.. / ~· ~ • C/-~,F .w.4 ·. /I~~- f3J . / ~ - fl;, .. J ' ~ ?v,/- L wa/vi,v/;.., . ~ , a 7 .- ~~6- . ~ J- ~ L . ..At. ~ ~ lzi; . ~ ~ k .· -~ o / ~ . <6!~/t. ~ �/ 1 ' ' ~·. ·' \ v <. , ; . - -v ,• . • '\ 1 .r ,. t ' � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e9ab978c2fb14aad3e16c53b26a5f880.pdf b4c2797d6e225abb62027368a0af833a PDF Text Text [Page 1] (Private) Charlestown Mass.ts 23 Nov. 1835 My dear Sir, I duly received yours of the 9th . I have been intending to write you, but waited to see a little the march of events. Everything seemed to be taking a pleasant train. Till the new demonstration in favor of Mr. Clay. This I cannot comprehend; for we had very satisfactory assurances. (by the way of Philadelphia), from Mr. Clay, that his views were such as we could wish. However, his nomination must, like the Harrison movement, come to nothing. – Indeed, I do not believe the recent call in Philad.ạ is sanctioned by him. Gov. Kent, (a highly confidential friend of Mr C.) writes me, that he does not believe Mr C. has any thought of being a candidate. – The battle ground is in Pennsylvania; & it is impossible that Mr Clay any more than Harrison should get a strong support there. The Ritner party �[Page 2] are less disposed to C. than to H. – You observe that the predictions made by me as to the non-support of Harrison by the Antimasons are thus far verified. They have gone by and my hopes in favor of Webster. – One thing is certain, either Pennsylvania will support W. in opposition to VB. or she will support [text crossed out] {it will be}some man taken up purely on Antimasonic grounds, in which case, it will be Mr Adams. But I have the strongest confidence it will be Mr. Webster. It will not be Harrison nor Clay.Yours with great regard, E. Everett. �[Cover] � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-44_NS1-15454 Title A name given to the resource Nathan Sargent from Edward Everett, November 23, 1835 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1835-11-23 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Everett, Edward, 1794-1865 Description An account of the resource Letter discussing rumors of Henry Clay's plans to run for President, and Antimasonic opposition to William Henry Harrison. Subject The topic of the resource Sargent, Nathan, 1794-1875 Everett, Edward, 1794-1865 Harrison, William Henry, 1773-1841 Webster, Daniel, 1782-1852 Van Buren, Martin, 1782-1862 Cushing, Caleb, 1800-1879 White, Hugh Lawson, 1773-1840 Whig Party (U.S.) Antimasonic Party United States--Politics and government--19th century United States--Officials and employees National Intelligencer Office (Washington, D.C.) Washington (D.C.) Harrisburg (Pa.) Charlton (Mass.) Massachusetts Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent papers, (RHC-44)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3d01119a37f968503f4accb903938f95.pdf e24c23f374ea207bc43b704d96751ecd PDF Text Text J ��� https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1ae988bdca87868390f32deafab9650a.pdf 50bbf11feb28923b2c68aa9635d2b018 PDF Text Text [Page 1] (Private) Washington 2 Jan’y 1835 Dear Sir, Your letter of Dec. 20th to a friend of ours, in this place, has been shown to me, with the request, that I would let you know, that it has come safely to hand. - I have noticed speculations, which have occasionally appeared in your paper, on the subject of the Next Presidency. In one of the last of these in which you make a handsome allusion to Mr. Webster, you incline to the opinion, that it is best to await the selection of some candidate, in whom all the opponents of the administration can unite; the selection to be made by a general convention, or in some other way. Similar suggestions appear in other friendly papers. But I think I run no risk in saying, that no such convention can be had; & no such agreement on a candidate can take place. The Southern Whigs offer no thing better, than Judge White. An attempt, it is said, has been made, or is now making in Ohio, to commit that state for Judge McLean. - Local nominations are not the most desirable ones. [Signature cut out from reverse side. Text losses added in pencil] They (have not the weight of) general nominations (But it would seem) in the present �[Page 2] state of things that there is no other way in which those from whom the choice must ultimately be made, can be brought forward. Massachusetts, I think, will move early this winter, & present the name of Mr. Webster. He is the only candidate, who, to the full extent, represents her principles; - his defence of the constitution seemed to demand it; and his prospect of taking the vote of the whig states is better than that of any other candidate. - The tone of the Maryland papers is decidedly favorable to him; in Kentucky he stands next to Mr. C.; & in Ohio second to no one, not even Judge McLean. In New York he is incontestably the strongest anti Van Buren man. - His friends at home are strongly disposed to urge his pretensions; prepared to employ all Laws & means to ensure success, & not ashamed to foil, in so respectable a cause. – These suggestions, of course, are private & confidential; but may serve in some degree, to apprize you of the sentiments of one portion of the Whig party. �[Cover] � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-44_NS1-15455 Title A name given to the resource Nathan Sargent from Edward Everett, January 2, 1835 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1835-01-02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Everett, Edward, 1794-1865 Description An account of the resource Letter discussing potential Whig nominees for President in the 1836 election. Subject The topic of the resource Sargent, Nathan, 1794-1875 Clay, Henry, 1777-1852 Whig Party (U.S.) United States--Politics and government--19th century United States--Officials and employees Ashland (Ky.) Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent papers, (RHC-44)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e8e2f1ec0be86dd0fd2858cc602f9c1b.pdf 9b6dba0be932a8de67948ffa5d501b9a PDF Text Text Cflc-._L~ :I ~ JL-J L.e ANA_ /~ ,,(,Jtt I 1 ~~ ~ ~~~ C H;u, 14-4 I L ~ ~ "'J,/ 4- 4 ~ ~µJiA,<.C<.- ~ ~ ~,.L, .~;u- . . ref fa._/,£; ~ ~ ~ / r ~· ~ ~-' ut~ /~t;;., J ~ .c c~ ~ L ~ I - kdL<4- . hw,.. ~~ 6.J~ ~ c/ ~ //d. ,/ 'k~ ~· t;. ~ ~ )J.l ~ --- / j ~ ~ ~ ~~/~ - ~ ?v.4 ·-~ ? ' ~ ~ C4 ~ ~~ C ~ .~ ,u_,,.._J J ~ ~ At . ~~ ~ ~ c ~ A'wr ~~ ~ ~/. k ,; ~ /-. /1:, / l ~ i,/ ~ ~~;-·. ,h<,Ac..L o/ /--4 4 - ~~ :- ~ ~ ;¾.,..... 4 .. L +a:·eJ4 ,/ ~~ y /4L~. 2:__ · ~ I M ' ~ ..; ~ / u -- ·~ ~ C,M 4 ;t LL~-~ ~ . J ~J/ · ~ a ~~- ~t/lA,....~ ~ ~ ,,_./t._, - (J ~ ~ /Li. ~ ~ Ju~½ 4 ~- ~J~ ~ ~c-Lj. ~ - Nck &_d ~ LJ .~ ~ 4 = ~~ y# ~· : I " ~ ~ �- - -r - - - - - -- ~--- - tvL !XJ- ,,; · ~ ~ ~ ~ --·-- - ~ / ~ ~ ~ w.h ? - - 4c ./h~- - - - - - - --, . £L~ £ L_,___=.-/4~ ·. I ~ ~ - tli(M~ I~ C L /L,I ~ ~ /·/ i ; ~-,--·. ~ .;, ~ ,I-- 0-, ~ JZA_;;.~--/ ~~ ~ ~ L ~ .~~ 4- ~-J 1-v~ ~Lf} ~ C vfL ~ ~ a t • . - ;z_--- -~~ .. ~ ~ . , , t ~ ~~ ~ A IY/4~ c- .v /i fi.,~ . µd, ~ ~/&/J,,,;.. ~ ~ ~ ~- ~.~ -:,, r--:fa-- ~ / ~ £, . ~ a_/~ ~ /4. (7~ /L h ~ J' J ¥,n/1"· / j ~ fa-~ ¥4d & ~ . ~ L J , / ~ / ~ 4Jt. t.. ,/4.J ~ ·- ~ o-'i/4/ u;_ v'--.. ~ ~ .~ . ~ .C ~ JzL_ . . t ~ /---- w-LL :fa,. ~ ~ - d::· ~ d J ~ / ~ :;~ · ~ 4<./ /1... £ . ~ v ~ ~ t?/J. ~ c • .,._ ;£ ~ . ~ ~ . /c-._~ ~ ~-- ·~ .~ juµ ~ vfJ. . ~~ - .~ ~ /t· ~ L .o/ ~~ ~~ / ~ ~ -~ 6 J £ ~ ~ Le. -dfw~ . ~o~s ) �. ~1--~ /- · ./£: ~ ,tZ:;·· ~ ~ ~ LJ,,.L;.._. ~ · ~~~, · C. C:- \ �~-------~ ----- ----~· � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a311b35a4aeae2bd1924514330dde25c.pdf bf7e39392bbe2f2aabcb2bf11aa85259 PDF Text Text [Page 1] Washington 20 Feby. 1835 Dear Sir, I duly received yours of the 11th. I have since that time been a good deal out of health, & almost broken down by the weight of public business & private correspondence. – I hope you will consider this, as an excuse for my not writing. – Your suggestion relative to letters from Washington to the country papers in your state shall, as far as possible, be attended to. We will also have documents forwarded to them. – Your remark relative to the tardiness of our movements in New England are just. It is partly in the nature of the People; - partly produced by a paralyzing Clay influence; - and still more by the impracticability of Masons & Antimasons. The vote of Vermont & R Island is controlled or decided by the Antimasons. They are all with us or almost all, - but some of their leaders make great mischief. They will not let any body lead & hardly let any body follow. But we hope things are working right in Vermont; & �[Page 2] when that is found I think the Antimasons everywhere else will go straight. – The senatorial election in Boston gives us great trouble.I regret to hear that there is danger of a schism between the whigs & AMS in Penn. I thought Ritner would be cordially supported by both. I will immediately write to Mr. Lawrence. The orations were immediately transmitted by Mr. Webster to Mr. Gist & the other gentlemen named by you.I fear the reports you ask cannot be obtained I mean the old retrenchment report. Burton’s patronage report has been reprinted, I believe, & shall be sent you. – There ought in some of your public libraries to be sets of the congressional documents from which you might borrow the retrenchment report. I am quite sure it is in the Library of the Phil. Soc. – The old speeches I fear I cannot get you.- Is there no file of the Nat. Intelligence a copy of the Register of debates in Philad? You shall have Mr. Calhoun’s report of the �[Page 3] Post office the moment they are furnished for distribution. – Yours with great regard, E. E. – �[Cover] � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-44_NS1-15456 Title A name given to the resource Nathan Sargent from Edward Everett, February 20, 1835 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1835-02-20 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Everett, Edward, 1794-1865 Description An account of the resource Letter discussing elections in Vermont, Rhode Island, and Pennsylvania, and Antimason Party activity. Subject The topic of the resource Sargent, Nathan, 1794-1875 Adams, Charles Francis, 1807-1886 Adams, John Quincy, 1767-1848 Whig Party (U.S.) United States--Politics and government--19th century United States--Officials and employees Boston (Mass.) Washington (D.C.) Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent papers, (RHC-44)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3e48dcf9e97bd7eed4d50b93a7c7c299.pdf 9555b651b8fa08d70fe2c6ffcee8e4e5 PDF Text Text / / <UA ~ .,,LL~ :;-,,~ a0 ~ , , , ~ -· ~.~ U<,C,. ~ ' A;, / -MG.A ,/ A; /4 Z<,/"':o 4 · ~ P t ' ~y . ,.., , , , d: . n:.,_ H~ , ~ / ~ ~ · ~ ~ / o ~ t/ ~~ . tS .Jfe c;~ /4/4-._ ~ ~ ~ .r/ d;· ~<A'f, #, ;K;/ ~ . / ~ ~ ~.. . ~ £- L; ~ ~ .cf"" ~ ,'- ;,~f- 4;, ,;, ... , vd ,,,.,../ ~ '- c:J,.,_ ~ ~ I ,!A, ~ .. ,,& I / . ~~ 4- /' ~ wJt c...,_ g;;; I a.,_ ~ ~ ?r· /.,,- ~ k;J;, L / / ....,__ ~ 0 k- b<NL-- &:/4 . / ~ ~ ·a, ~ L.A . ~ e4 ~- .#c~ ~ ___ .. Cc~- ~ / ·~ A~, - /,v..d ~ L· d; a ~ k ~ ~ ~,. . ~ "';P/ /4 ~ '7 . ,.,.,,Jd . ~ -15,~5"7 a ~ v/ ~ ~ / "4 .~ c/~J .,;L- ~ R.'_ ~ . j!J; ~faff t4 P./l/( _a,.-A- .£/ /[~;,,__ . ./ ~ w£,./ ~ ~ . 1r.Lc, A;-~ ~~/LJf /<M_ ~ t,.,<// ~ ~ , ,_. 6J W< /~ / . ~-- · /;t.,~ J /4:rd: /../ / ~ �~ u /~ ~~ A, ; ef V / ~ u/- "'< ~£~l~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ 4 ~~ daAt ' r ~~ ~~-~ c.6:_J: /4 ~ cW.4 £_~ ~- At /k~ ,ff~- /<,,,<_L 4,. 7 ~c~~~.- ~ ~tAA'( ./__.t_~-.,._~ ~ .,,-~ ~£!~ - ~ e//1.. . G0 -- - lJ ~ ~ ;;, ~ / ~ --- ~ ~dy .Yvh~ ~ . ""'" #-- ~ ~~ �., .., ~ - 1' -- ...Jf'.'e'"'I.. -- ~ .ll.S,~ c,~,,,._.· ·. 1:..:~ . 'iF, . ,.u:Y~' "" "-"'·4;'" ' ~i . ·.. :i;: _ 4:._. ~ l --4-'·-·~ ~- - � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cc12e7d25b5670b00a54da158171298a.pdf f4cbf8636bd7b0b0ae6d3c059ccf435a PDF Text Text [Page 1] Charleston Mass.ts 3 Jan. 1836 Dear Sir, I have yours of the 29th. I was certainly disappointed in the result of the Antimasonic convention at Harrisburg. My impressions, however, were derived from good sources, & justified by the course taken by the leaders of the party, in that body. I agree with you as to the general complain of affairs: - the question, however, with us, as with you, is not what we will do. – but what we can. – Our people will, I think, never take Judge White, though unquestionably far superior as a statesman to Genl. Harrison. I do not think they will come into the support of Genl. H. – They are well disposed to hold to Mr Webster. & this, I think, their most likely course. If they are driven from this, they will be very apt to go for Van Buren, or let him take the state by default. I would write you more at length; but I leave �[Page 2] the bed side of one of my children who is dangerously ill; & I have not spirits to proceed. Your friend, E. Everett. An article headed the Presidency & figured Massachusetts in the Intelligencer some days ago expressed the opinions here entertained by Mr Webster’s friends. It is written by Mr Cushing one of our delegation at Washington. �[Cover] � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-44_NS1-15457 Title A name given to the resource Nathan Sargent from Edward Everett, January 3, 1836 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1836-01-03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Everett, Edward, 1794-1865 Description An account of the resource Letter discussing potential Whig nominees for President in the 1836 election, and the growing approval of a Daniel Webster candidacy. Subject The topic of the resource Sargent, Nathan, 1794-1875 Everett, Edward, 1794-1865 Webster, Daniel, 1782-1852 Clay, Henry, 1777-1852 Van Buren, Martin, 1782-1862 Whig Party (U.S.) United States--Politics and government--19th century United States--Officials and employees Washington (D.C.) Massachusetts Maryland Kentucky Ohio New York (State) Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent papers, (RHC-44)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b608b832fad63c604edd0bda88c21c8b.pdf dbcbd480fd98b28ab2733a71b55d0311 PDF Text Text ~ L,,_, L ,.<_ ;fao,.,,, / ~ . / / e,,.r ..LJ,2~ L .,,, ~ r&· C ~ <-0- a ,L,,c;,,....,, . 4..&..~ a,, ~ ~ ~.,-2 rr ; ~ ,~ /J ,,{,,.,£L, aA /L ~ ~ .£..,k /J 4 kJ ,.,.· ~ eu.d ~.. wA . ~ h,: / 0,,.,.., ~ 44 ~ /4 ~ &«A.,,-< u «-4 . , : er,,.__ 7-vGL.Y fa L..,&- ~ -L: ,· aa: £'<, L ·..; cA- ~,.;- ~ £ 4~ a:: / .~ /3<"~ /4.,/C- ~ ~ ~/ , / 4 , ~44 wvd ~ · c£.c~ ~ / ~ / ~ · ~ r- a- ~.. .- <. c,y,,,~ v/. ,(= ~ j:;.. /LJ ~/4~ /~I - C ,.,,,& /,,_ · ~ ~ -- ,/~ ~..;,,. -A~uV. · ~ ~ /,t/~ £~ ~~ ,..,.,a ,a:_, ~ ~J L ,/,__ 'o/ ~ .,c c },,= ~ < -- c,~ ~,. e/ /L . cf//( ~ ~ ,e.,,., J z, _ :fo,,_. ~ v J d ~ . /4; ~ ~,_a £ ,,.:a-,~~~ . / / - ~ ~ --rll J 0~ ~ Y~;jh~ 4/11..,U ~ Lh,= · C- ':7 A'L.. ~ C- ~ ~- L //;.,._ z,7 ~~ )£./ �. ~/,.,.., A , r?~.Y,..,/-. _ ~ Ayr.. LJt; L.,; ~ .46,, ~/ ~ / r,..,.,£:: /. /~ ~ /4.,. a.,,_._ ~~ ~ ceq C ./4_ w9 + ~ £~ /4r~ ~ df'Z:7" ~ >" ~ u a#~ ~ ~ /4_,._, ,/4 µ-,L,,,,~ . ,(,,__ £ ~ . /a ~ ~~ «£, . 4~,:._ k ; ~ t;" ~ a llL _a ~ //1~ ~~ ~ ./!.#~-~ ~ . - ~~ ~ · / ou--r .Jo d ~ ~ oL . ~ - h,_. ~ ~ c.dl C- ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ v<A-J:r- ~ ·- �~~t M ,"' - " ~ ;:: . A ~ 4 cj .~ i · . '-J~ ~ ~t \ . ~ s ' ~~\\ ~ ~ ', , ' - , · · ~ ~ - ~ ·t'. ~ (' 1 l --- � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e3a7e54f739d2215ee57903b55f0c3fb.pdf 569ff032af54cb82a55fb03e3207ede3 PDF Text Text [Page 1] Boston 10th May 1838 My dear Sir, I have your favor of the 5th. I congratulate you on the success which has attended your efforts to get up a course of scientific lectures. When a similar course was first proposed here, it met with the same doubts & misgivings; but we have now five or six regular courses throughout the winter; all well attended. Some by immense audiences. There is not the least doubt but that in the enlightened and liberal City of Philadelphia, this plan of popular instruction will be crowned with entire success. You will enjoy high satisfaction for your agency in introducing it. I am glad to hear from you that your present Governor will be re-elected. His defeat would be highly inauspicious. I have never thought it very likely that Pennsylvania would give her powerful voice to any other Whig Candidate than Genl. �[Page 2] Harrison for President. The first choice of Massachusetts lies in another quarter; but we are prepared to sacrifice anything to Union with our Whig brethren in other States. With great regard Your friend & servant, E. Everett Could you let me know who has the charge of the Affair of our lamented friend McShaine. Do not take the trouble to write a letter. A name written on the margin of a newspaper will sufficiently convey the information. �[Cover] � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-44_NS1-15458 Title A name given to the resource Nathan Sargent from Edward Everett, May 10, 1838 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1838-05-10 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Everett, Edward, 1794-1865 Description An account of the resource Letter discussing scientific lectures, the re-election of Pennsylvania Gov. Joseph Ritner, and Massachusetts's reluctance to support William Henry Harrison. Subject The topic of the resource Sargent, Nathan, 1794-1875 Cushing, Caleb, 1800-1879 Whig Party (U.S.) United States--Politics and government--19th century United States--Officials and employees Washington (D.C.) Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent papers, (RHC-44)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/94449d2f90a4b3e644528c4c361dcb6f.m4v f10750e97e91eed13eeab5a096878c28 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/48f38a973136f552fa17cc46cae8a348.pdf 50dd04efefe6eaababa5056450901145 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project Jerry Everitt World War II-Postwar 1 hour 6 minutes 8 seconds (00:00:19) Early Life -Born in Big Rapids, Michigan on April 5, 1927 -Grew up in Big Rapids -Mother stayed at home to take care of the family -Father worked for the county road commission as a night watchman (law enforcement) -Also did other odd jobs like build barns and break horses -Had work through the Great Depression -He had seven brothers and sisters -Attended Big Rapids High School through the tenth grade -Did some factory work -Made 25 cents an hour -Made plywood in a dry kiln -Only 15 or 16 years old (00:03:06) Start of the War -Doesn't remember where he was when he learned about the attack on Pearl Harbor -Paid some attention to the fighting in Europe and Asia before Pearl Harbor -Brother was in the Michigan National Guard -When the U.S. entered the war, the national guard was federalized -Part of the 126th Infantry Regiment of the 32nd Infantry Division -Fought in New Guinea -Remembers rationing going into effect -Always had a sweet tooth, so he had to make sure he didn't use up his part of the sugar ration -Neighbors did a little black market trading with used tires -Good people though -The factory he worked at did not have to convert to wartime production (00:07:56) Enlisting in the Navy -Remembers a lot of people he knew were joining the military -One of his friends worked at Ferris Institute (Ferris State University) training servicemen Morse Code -He helped his friend with that work -Friend that worked at Ferris Institute enlisted in the Navy -Told Jerry the Navy had better food than the Army -Enlisted in the Navy on March 20, 1945 -Unconcerned with maybe having to invade Japan -Had his physical exam in Detroit then came home for a bit before reporting for duty (00�:10:47) Basic Training -Went to Great Lakes Naval Station, Illinois on April 30, 1945 for basic training -Learned how to march and use a variety of firearms -Taught how to recognize Allied and Axis aircraft and ships -High emphasis on discipline -Wasn't difficult for him to adjust -Some men had problems, but he feels they would've had problems anywhere -Contracted pleurisy �-Spent a week in a hospital -Led to him training with men from Missouri -Lasted six weeks -Doesn't remember Victory in Europe Day (May 8, 1945) -Not allowed to go into Chicago (00:14:26) Deployment to the Pacific Theater -Came home for a short leave after basic training -Took a train to Portland, Oregon and boarded a transport -Sailed to Hawaii and gathered supplies -From Hawaii sailed to the Philippines -During the voyage across the Pacific Ocean they received word that Japan surrendered -Doesn't remember any major celebrations on the ship, but there was a sense of relief -Got a little seasick on the voyage -Slow roll of the ship caused it -Found that if he ate something he felt better (00:17:53) Service on the USS LST-457 Pt. 1 -Arrived in the Philippines in late August 1945 -Boarded the USS LST-457 in the Philippines -Note: LST (landing ship tank): landing craft capable of carrying troops, vehicles, and supplies -He served as a regular seaman on the ship -Sailed to Los Negros Island in the Admiralty Islands -Picked up a small load of supplies -Pulled onto the beach and had a bulldozer clearing an area for the ramp -The bulldozer's brakes failed and it went right into the water -Some of the officers wanted jeeps, so they found a few and drove them onto the ship -Told they had to take the jeeps off to make room for the supplies -Still managed to get their jeeps on before they left -Picked up a half dozen soldiers that had gotten separated from their unit -Brought them back to the Philippines -USS LST-457 was slated to return to the United States, so he left the ship (00:22:40) Service on the USS San Clemente (AG-79) -Boarded the USS San Clemente (AG-79) in Manila in late 1945 -Note: Supply ship and it used to be called the USS Wright (AV-1) -Didn't get to go ashore in Manila -Served in the laundry room -Sailed to Shanghai, China from Manila on January 3, 1946 -Anchored in the Huangpu River -Went ashore a lot in Shanghai (00:24:30) Service on the USS LST-457 Pt. 2 -Prior to leaving USS LST-457 they sailed up to Okinawa -Fleet was still assembled there in preparation for the invasion of Japan -Sailed north to Japan -Had to stay in a group when they went ashore -Everything was flattened and devastated -Possibly went ashore at Osaka -Sailed from Japan back to the Philippines and boarded the USS San Clemente (00:26:51) Shanghai, China -While they were in Shanghai they had Chinese civilians come aboard to help work -He had a Chinese boy helping in the laundry room on the USS San Clemente �-Worked 24 hours a day and seven days a week in the laundry room -Worked days for a while, then rotated to nights -Had a heating plate in the laundry room -Allowed to get steak, pies, and bread from the mess hall to make food in the laundry room -Older Chinese man made coffee for him and the other sailors -He never drank any of the coffee, rather, he wanted hot water with sugar in it -The Chinese boy that helped in the laundry room could speak three or four languages -They shrank down a Navy uniform and gave it to him -Noticeable tensions between the Nationalists and the Communists -Rickshaw drivers avoided neighborhoods controlled by the Communists -Visited the European sector -Remembers going into European hotels and ordering whatever food he wanted -Didn't see any British of French residents though -Never had any problems with the Chinese civilians (00:32:18) End of Service (First Time) -Sailed from Shanghai to San Francisco -Sailed through the Panama Canal to New York City -Took a train to Chicago and was discharged on June 5, 1946 (00:33:48) Reenlisting in the Navy -Decided to reenlist in the Navy on August 22, 1947 -Was married -Had gotten married in June 1945 after basic training -Had a job at Calvinator in Grand Rapids, Michigan -Living with wife's family in Grand Rapids -Thought that if he made a 20 year career out of the Navy he could get benefits (00:37:52) Electrician School -Reported to a major Navy base in New Jersey -Either Naval Air Engineering Station Lakehurst or Naval Weapons Station Earle -Sailed through the Panama Canal to San Diego, California to attend Electrician School -Learned the trade of being an electrician -Trained on a Patrol Craft, Submarine (PCS) -Officer candidates learned how to operate sonar -Learned how to track submarines by chasing American submarines -He worked on the radio -Had trouble doing that because he couldn't hear radio transmissions -Did other jobs on the PCS -Captain liked to go fishing, so they went fishing off the coast of California -Not supposed to go fishing, but they did anyway -Wife lived with him while stationed in San Diego -Lived off the base -Remembers experiencing his first earthquake in San Diego -Thought a man was making the floor shake -Realized that that was impossible because the floor was concrete (00:43:45) Service on the USS Molala (ATF-106) Pt. 1 -Transferred to the USS Molala (ATF-106), an ocean-going tug -Sailed back to the Philippines -Stationed at Subic Bay north of Manila -Used primitive drones for gunnery practice -There was a missionary in the Philippines that needed a wing for his airplane �-They ran the wing over to him -Sailed around the Philippines -Visited Tacloban where his brother fought in the war -Didn't see much damage from the war -Had contact with the Filipinos -Got along well with them (00:48:40) Reflections on Service Pt. 1 -Meeting other people taught him that while people are different, they're also largely the same -Believes 80% of people want to just live their lives and get along with each other -Ultimately, the color of one's skin is irrelevant to their humanity; we are all the same (00:49:40) Service on the USS Molala (ATF-106) Pt. 2 -Sailed from the Philippines back to Japan -Remembers the crowded trains in Japan -So many people packed in the train you couldn't fall down -From Japan they sailed back to the Philippines -By the late 1940s the communists had taken control of most of China -There were concerns that the communists would advance on the British colony of Hong Kong -They were sent to Hong Kong as part of a force to deter the communists -Sailed to Guam to pick up a dry dock to bring back to the United States -Took a long time to sail back to America -Used a three inch steel cable to tow the dry dock -At one point they had to get refueled at sea -During the refueling the cable broke -Had to repair the cable before they moved on, and the tanker waited for them -Tanker crew was not happy that they had to wait around -Sailed through the Panama Canal and dropped off the dry dock on the Atlantic side -Passed back through the Panama Canal and sailed to Long Beach, California -Discharged at Long Beach (00:53:57) Visiting Hong Kong -When they were anchored at Hong Kong he was able to go ashore -Only visited the city a couple times -Didn't notice any tension in Hong Kong related to the civil war (00:55:10) End of Service (Second Time) -Discharged at Long Beach, California on March 23, 1950 -Decided not to make a career out of the Navy -Stayed in the inactive Navy Reserve, but never did anything with them (00:56:02) Life after Service -Returned to Grand Rapids, Michigan -Worked at different factories in Grand Rapids -Moved to Lowell, Michigan in 1970 -Lived near a school in Grand Rapids, so it was easy for children to go to school -Busing program began and they didn't want their children scattered all over the city -Decided to move to Lowell so they could decide where their children went to school -Had a job with General Motors -Worked there until he retired (00:59:36) Spirit of Grand Rapids Honor Flight -Went on the May 16, 2015 Spirit of Grand Rapids Honor Flight to Washington DC -Chance for local veterans to be honored and thanked for their service -Thought Washington DC was very interesting �-Had a police escort through Washington DC -He thought the most impressive monument he saw was the Washington Monument (01:02:55) Reflections on Service Pt. 2 -It was a period of his life different than any others -Grew up in the Navy -Made him more worldly -Learned that people of different nationalities are still human beings -Desirous of the same things that all people want in life -Most people just want to get along and live in peace -Showed him that any notions of discrimination are stupid � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_EverittL1931V Title A name given to the resource Everitt, Lawrence Jerry (Interview outline and video), 2016 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-03-03 Description An account of the resource Jerry Everitt was born in Big Rapids, Michigan on April 5, 1927. He enlisted in the Navy on March 20, 1945 and received his basic training at Great Lakes Naval Station, Illinois. He served aboard the USS LST-457 in the Philippines, Japan and the Admiralty Islands then transferred to the USS San Clemente (AG-79) around the Philippines and in Shanghai, China. They returned to the U.S. on the San Clemente and was discharged in Chicago on June 5, 1946. He reenlisted in the Navy on August 22, 1947 and went to Electrician School in San Diego. He served on the USS Molala (ATF-106) in the Philippines and in Hong Kong. After towing a dry dock back to the United States from Guam he was discharged from the Navy for his second, and final time on March 23, 1950 at Long Beach, California. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Everitt, Lawrence Jerry Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jones, Adam (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/x-m4v application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5795c5bf1504d7cd1254b400e62ea506.mp4 a6ae3da3d36867a98e14df68a0411b94 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6351b216c2eb2dc62555b7f977e5a125.pdf bf0fa2d237b393c9fb9dd52be71fe5d5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran: Wallace “Wally” Ewing Interview Length: (24:57) Interviewed by Frank Boring Transcribed by Chloe Dingens Okay, my name is Wallace Ewing, but I usually go by Wally and I was born on September 11th, 1932. Of course, 9/11’s become kind of an important date in recent years but when I was born, I was the only event, and I was born in Grand Rapids. Interviewer: Okay, what was your early childhood like? Well I was born in the height of The Depression and my father in fact was out of work when I was born and that's why I happened to be born in Grand Rapids because we lived in Grand Haven, but we had no residence and so we lived with my father's parents during my birth, and for a couple of months after that. Childhood was good, I had solid parents, I had an older brother, and two older sisters, so I was the baby of the family, I got treated like the baby, nothing wrong with that in retrospect. My dad changed jobs a lot, so we moved around a lot, Grand Haven was always emotional home, that's where we came home to. We had relatives that lived here and ancestors that could go back some ways but we lived in Ohio, Illinois, and Indiana, as well as Michigan so the variety of locations and during that upbringing, I learned that it's a challenge especially when you're young to make an adjustment to a new environment every time you move and I think that probably helped me in the long run, but at the time it was kind of a trauma. (2.11) �Interviewer: So, you were born in 1932, your father, you have a fam- you have a father, you have a family, but 1940’s became very difficult time in- in the world. What, did you have any indication of what was going on in the world as you were growing up? I was paying attention to what went on even though I was quite young yet, but it, the impact of that didn't really sink in until I became some years older. As a youngster 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 it- it's hard to relate to those kinds of problems, the world war strife and of course there was the second recession that came along that kind of changed the improvement that had taken place in the later ‘30’s, but all of that was interesting to me but I didn't really absorb it. Interviewer: Sure, in 1942 you would have been 10 years old, we already, Pearl Harbor had already happened, do you remember any of it? (3.12) Oh, I do. Interviewer: Okay, what… We lived on North Shore and near Ferrysburg that year, that winter and I remember we gathered around the console radio as so many families did and listened to the reports, the news reports that were coming in of this bombing, again I didn't absorb that. I didn't know exactly what that meant, but I knew it was bad. And I have a very clear memory of that Sunday by the radio, yes. Interviewer: What was your, what- what happened to your family, in terms of your father, was he called up or what happened in terms of that? My father at that time was what, 48 years old so he was beyond the- the draft age but my brother and my sister both enlisted in the Navy during World War II, my brother graduated from high school in 1943 in Muskegon and immediately enlisted and my sister was somewhat older, but she enlisted about the same time, both in the Navy. �Interviewer: Let’s backtrack just a little bit, you- you have a Navy family I take it. I do because my father served in World War I as a radio man and he was, received training at Harvard University and that's where he met my mother. (4.27) Interviewer: So now the war years, tell us about the war years here in mid-Michigan, this area. It's a little bit, several aspects of that but it's a little bit shameful in one way, but I was, you know 11/ 12 years old and I would read Time Magazine and see where the front was moving this way and the front was moving that way, and it was obviously worse than a football game but it was kind of, our guys have gained a few yards, our guys have lost a few yards, they’ve scored, the other team has scored. But at least I followed that, I knew what was going on in the Eastern Front and the Western Front. The war years in Grand Haven were certainly we were not deprived of much of anything, but, we again as young people were aware of the needs and we'd saved metal and turn that in, save paper, turn that in, any kind of tin foil, anything like that that could, rubber, that could be recycled was turned in, and we had that kind of activity. In addition, there were the bond drives and for 18 dollars and 75 cents you get a $25 bond, it’d be worth $25 in ten years. And at that time that seemed like pretty good money, so we'd invest in that and you get these little books that had the stamps in them that every time you bought a stamp you make progress towards that $18.75 and getting that bond. Interviewer: And as, do you recall the end of the war? (6.03) Oh absolutely. �Interviewer: I mean Europe first and then Japan. Yeah. Interviewer: Yeah. I do indeed, I was going to a- a school in Grand Haven at that time on, between Franklin Street and Clinton, seventh and sixth. And my sister, another sister, not the one in the Navy, lived across the street. She had a- a couple children at that time, she lived upstairs and I remember hearing that the war in Europe was ended, it was V-E Day and the schools were dismissed I think and we spent a lot of time just with my sister in her car, going up and down the streets honking our horns and cheering. It was a, really a joyful occasion. When V-J Day came later that year in the end of the summer, I was at a boy's camp up north and I remember when the bomb was dropped and again you know you’d be gettin’- getting old enough to really absorb what that means and then watched the capitulation of the Japanese I think it was on September 3rd, 1945. And felt the again, the joy, the relief that that part of our life was over. (7.16) Interviewer: Can you describe if you can remember soldiers returning home- soldiers returning home, Grand Haven, Grand Rapids? No, I don't, I just remember my- my brother coming home and that he had been stay, he was also a radioman like his dad, our dad. And he was stationed on Attu Island I think it was in the Aleutian Islands in Alaska. And so again he was not faced with active combat, but he did experience the war in that regard. When he came back it was a relief and then he benefited from the GI Bill, started Michigan State University, the winter began and he said, “you know what, I don't like winter.” And he went to the southwest and never came back. Interviewer: How about your sister returning? �She returned but not to Grand Haven, so she went to Washington, D.C. and got a job as a science writer there and I have no memory of her response. (8.21) Interviewer: So, as your- your now between wars so to speak, what were you goals after the war was over with? You’re in high school by now? I was in high school, started high school in 1946 and the goal was to get through high school and college obviously was mandatory. My parents didn't have any, we didn't have enough money to send me to college and I heard about a program that was called the Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps, NROTC and at that time I was going to high school in Chicago, and I applied for an entrance exam, took the entrance exam, and just one occa- one- one event in that while we're taking the exam, they were long, it was about six hours of- of test questions, and about halfway through, the, now it was lunchtime so all these guys stood up and suddenly some officer stood on the stage and yells, “stand fast.” I don't think anybody had ever heard the phrase “stand fast” before but everybody knew what it meant, and the whole crowd sat down immediately. It's a way that you learn language, by intonation, emphasis, as well as the words. At any rate I passed the exam and was admitted into the University of Wisconsin, in Madison, and began my career, very short career with the Navy at that time. (9.57) Interviewer: So, what was the actual- what was the actual procedure, you know, of getting in? Well passing the- the test was the- the very extensive and intensive examination that measured your verbal skills, your mathematics skills, your science knowledge, and- and all aspects of life at that time, history as well. And so, you had to pass that, and you had to pass at a fairly high �level to get through and I was fortunate enough to somehow make that happen. And then there was a physical exam and one little sidelight of that, I’ll tell you a little family story, when I was, I think was nine years old and my mother said, “it's time for you to get a dental checkup.” So, I went to the dentist and, “oh he's got a great set of choppers, nothing to worry about.” That ended any worries that my parents ever had about my teeth, I never went to a dentist again. So, I went for this physical and had a dental exam and he said, “we can't let you in until you get those cavities filled.” So, I had seventeen cavities that had to be filled and my mother said, “well that's your problem, you take care of it.” So it was five dollars a- a filling, $85 out of my meager savings that I had to put into this kind of like an investment and but once that was done and I passed the physical, everything was set and all I had to do was show up at the University of Wisconsin on a certain date in September of 1950 and start my time with a NROTC. (11.31) Interviewer: So, what was ROTC like at that time? Well the NROTC was a- a group of good, it was made up of a group of good young men, I think I made some good friends there unfortunately not lifetime friends but friends at the time. And because what was coming ahead, we spent a lot of time together not only on the campus but on our summer cruises during the next three summers. There was, we had to take naval science courses and my brain is both sides are literary oriented, so that was a bit of a challenge for me, but somehow, I managed. And just had a- a- a, yeah, I didn't really care for military life I'll be honest. Too stringent, too demanding I thought. I'll give you one example, one of the summers I was at Quantico in Virginia and during, at the evening we were off and I’d be, had been elevated to a platoon leader which big deal, and when we went to see a movie it was called High Noon with Gary Cooper and Grace Kelly. I neglected to take off my cap, that was a transgression, an �officer saw me, I was stripped of my platoon leadership and relegated to the- the platoon as a follower. And I just thought, wow that's pretty small, you know Cap, tell me, reprimand me, but don't strip that from me, but it happened so probably like if I've remembered it that long, you know all these years, it must have been a good lesson for me and I think maybe I learned something from that. (13.21) Interviewer: During ROTC did you have to go to boot camp? No boot camp. Interviewer: Okay. Well it- it, well it depends on how you define boot camp, I didn't have to go to Great Lakes or anything like that. But we did have a vigorous training during those, our active weeks during the summers of ’51, ’52, and ’53. Six weeks each summer that was devoted to learning more Naval skills, either on the water or on land. In the summer of 1952 our group was sent to Quantico for about half our time there and then we took a troop train which was an experience from Quantico, Virginia to Corpus Christi, Texas for training at the Naval Air Station there, and to be on a troop train for two solid days, not allowed to get off the train was also an experience. (14.18) Interviewer: And these were all ROTC people? Yes. Interviewer: Alright. Yeah- yeah. Interviewer: So, these were the people you had been with all this period of time. �Yes, these are other young men who were on the scholarship program at the UniversityUniversity of Wisconsin through the NROTC. Interviewer: Okay, so, once you competed the ROTC part- part, what was the next step? Well, let- let me… Interviewer: Sure. If I- if I could I’d like to backtrack just a little bit because we took two summer cruises that were overseas, and they were important, I think. In 1951 I went to Norfolk, Virginia and got on the DD-864, the H. J. Ellison there and we then sailed out of Norfolk, went to Panama Canal, which was an experience, went to Gitmo, Guantanamo Bay, saw that in it's more or less early years, least a lot earlier than it is right now, and learned a bit about the sailor’s life and an officer's life. As a midshipman, we were, had a variety of experiences, we might be in the boiler room, we might be on the bridge, might be in some other category. And- and we learned how to feed the ack-ack guns with the 50-millimeter shells and fire those in practice, but still, learned how to do it. And that was a- a really good experience, even though, you know did a lot of paint chipping, and painting, and that kind of routine stuff too, but I learned a lot. Then in the summer of 1953 we sailed out of Norfolk and went to New York City which was, never been there before, that was an experience, and from New York City we went to Edinburgh, Scotland. As a- a, with my Scots background, that was an exciting experience and I remember walking around Edinburgh and- and getting acquainted with the tartans and some of the clans that were there. And the train, the Navy provided us with a train down to London, so we spent a couple of days there too, and that was a great experience, in fact they put us up at a London hotel and it's the only time in my whole life I was ever served breakfast in bed. So, here's this midshipman sleeping in a little bit, �and a knock on the door and the maid comes in with the breakfast on a tray, hey this is pretty neat; I can take this. (16.43) Interviewer: 1950’s, did London have a evidence of the war? Absolutely, there were still- still blocks of, that were devastated, buildings that had been destroyed by the bombing and The Blitz, yeah. It was very- very apparent at that time. And then we had another exciting trip from there, we went from Edinburgh to Oslo and went up the, if you’ve ever been to Oslo you know that there is long fjords and exciting experience to go into those fjords and see the lovely snow-capped mountains and that was 1953, and the year before, 1952 had been the Winter Olympics so we saw the- the remains of that too, the ski jump and theand the areas where they did the- the skiing and the skating. And I met a lovely young Norwegian, a woman there who knew English and she escorted me around, showed me the different sites in Oslo and it was a- it was a great experience. One time the- the Navy arranged a lot of out… special activities for us and they had a bus that was going to take the Midshipmen to Bergen, another Norway- Norwegian City and got to the bus and got loaded up, we went into the city of Oslo and they said, “you know we have too many people out here, we need some volunteers who are willing to bow out.” And I thought, wow I can bow out and no one will know. They’ll think I'm in Bergen and the people in Bergen will think I'm in, back at the ship, so I probably pretty dumb thing to do but I said, “okay I'll volunteer to leave.” I left, I rented a room in a hotel, The Hotel Philadelphia I took off my tie and- and all the paraphernalia that indicated I was Navy, and I just had a great weekend in- in Oslo and got back to my ship and they were absolutely no repercussions. So, it turned out alright, but I wouldn’t recommend it to anybody. (18.53) �Interviewer: I was gonna ask you also about your social life, but you’ve pretty given us, you had opportunities to down time. Yeah, we did we had leave, we had shore leave. And you know Oslo is just such a memorable place so was London and Edinburgh, but Oslo was special because we were there in early August and the land of the Midnight Sun, the Sun didn't set until midnight and it rose about 3 o'clock in the morning. So, there was very little dark and it just, when you're young, 20 years old, and you have that time and that- that opportunity it's just great to rejoice in that. And I and my buddies we- we did. Interviewer: So, once that period of your ROTC was over with, what was the next step? What’d you do from there? Well it gets complicated because my personal life got in the way, one of the criteria of being a midshipman is that you remain single, back home I fell in love and I got married in my senior year. That necessitated, eventually my departure from the NROTC, so the next step would have been to get a commission as an ensign, serve in the Navy for four years, and probably gets an advancement but I- I did not have that opportunity. (20.19) Interviewer: So, then what did you do next? Well after that, then I had a wife and we had children eventually and I obviously had to, I had to work. I had not finished my college degree moved to East Lansing and started studies at Michigan State University, eventually got my bachelor, I said, “you know I like this, this is what I like to do.” So, I stayed and got my master degrees also and then became a teacher. Interviewer: So, your naval career then was over with? Three years. �Interviewer: Three years. Yeah, that was it. Interviewer: You showed me some pictures, one of them was an official picture that ended up in the newspaper, how did that come about? (21.02) The- the Navy was always looking for ways to publicize its name and those pictures that would be sent to the hometown newspaper of the Midshipmen and usually would appear in the paper, I don't know if that would happen anymore because newspapers have kind of narrowed down their choice of articles. But they were very likely to appear in the local newspapers at that time. So, I probably, every midshipman had his picture taken at least once on each cruise. Interviewer: So that’s how they, that’s how it ended up… Yeah, that's right, yeah. Interviewer: You know it’s interesting, one of the things you said about not caring that much for Military life per se, and then you said towards the end of we were just talking that University life seemed to be very appealing. Yes. Interviewer: …to you. Yes, it did. Interviewer: So, what did you end up doing, you said you became a teacher, but what- what happened? Well I became, I taught at a variety of universities and ended up my academic career as a Dean at a small College in New England and suppose in a sense that's military too, gives a certain recommendation that has to be followed and certain rules that have to be followed. �(22.19) Interviewer: What did you teach? I, my teaching was primarily English, English language, and linguistics. Interviewer: Wow, okay. Yeah, and that- that- that worked up there. Interviewer: Yeah you said earlier, literary, you said you do literary, yeah. Yeah- yeah. Interviewer: Did you find at all that your military training, the ROTC period, the discipline and what not have any effect on how you have, how you went about becoming a professor, becoming a dean? I think all, every experience we have is- is, has some kind of effect on the choices that we make and how we handle those choices. So even though I was not enamored of the military life, I'm glad I had it. I look back on it I think it was good for me and I think it did help me accept a sense of responsibility and to recognize the importance of rules, and boundaries, and to, well I think succeed in life. I think it really did contribute towards that. (23.23) Interviewer: Once you decided to retire from academia, what did you do? I came back to Grand Haven my hometown, I’d consider my hometown and be, here I became the director of the Ottawa County Red Cross for nine years and then I retired from that, and on a part-time basis joined the local Historical Museum as curator of Education. Enjoyed that, and I said, “hey here's a whole new career, local history, I can get into that,” and I did, and it's been 20 years of it now and it's been wonderful. �Interviewer: Well I'm very pleased to hear you say that because as I mentioned to you and of course at the- the meeting that I spoke at, this part of the oral history, the Library of Congress Veteran’s History Project is about local history. Yeah it is. Interviewer: And so, on camera I want you to accept the challenge of encouraging other people to go through this experience. Oh, I would absolutely encourage it, and you know I have to say that what you're doing is a good thing. And I felt a little uncomfortable starting out, because you know what did I do? I didn't, II- I benefited much more than I gave, but I think I enjoyed the interview. I enjoy your questions, and you really prompted me to think and to respond. I believe that every veteran should have that opportunity and I hope that when the time comes that each veteran will be able to take advantage of it and have the same experience that I've had this morning. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_EwingW2126V Title A name given to the resource Ewing, Wallace (Interview transcript and video), 2017 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-05-22 Description An account of the resource Wallace Ewing was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan, on September 11, 1932. He recalled listening to news reports on the radio about the attack on Pearl Harbor, but remained unworried about the global events of the Second World War. After graduating high school in 1950, Ewing pursued the NROTC program at the University of Wisconsin in Madison. He participated in three overseas cruises and training exercises, but was forced to abandon his training when he was told he could not be married and become a Midshipman. Ewing and his wife started a family in East Lansing, he finished his degree at Michigan State University, and he became a university English teacher and later Dean at a small college. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ewing, Wallace K. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Erichsen, Wallace (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Naval Reserve Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e4ca77ca03a1e4a712c8c1ab2f6fca79.mp4 3d98d435d9e344e2154fbf6d966ae65b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/604714ca510988edcbe02bccdd90c09a.pdf 40273a357f858c9d97da1ac2b6907a97 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Notes Length: 54:00 William Ewing World War II Veteran Air Force; 1941:Oct. to 1984 3rd Attack [i.e. Bombardment] Group [ Ed. note: Mr. Ewing suffers from Alzheimer’s and his answers are often repetitive and sometimes unclear.] Introduction (0:25) • Ewing was born in Vicksburg [Michigan] and grew up in Grand Rapids. He attended college at Grand Rapids JC and Western Michigan U and earned a B.S. degree. Entry into Military Service (1:23) • Ewing joined the Reserves in fall of 1941. He had gotten his private pilot’s license and wanted to fly in the military. Before he could get into flight training for the military he was called up by the draft board but was sent home. • Ewing was then transferred to the Air Corps. He took military flight training, earning his wings in and later assigned to the 3rd Attack Group, a light bomber group and flew the A-20 Avenger. (3:17) [Ed. note: The 3rd Attack Group was redesignated 3rd Bombardment Group (Light) in 1940, 3rd Bombardment Group (Dive) in 1942, and 3rd Bombardment Group (Light), in 1943.] Training (4:26) • Ewing was sent to California for basic training and to Arizona for flight training, earning his wings in 1943. After graduation he was sent east to the Carolinas, then to Oklahoma City. • In California Ewing underwent training in the B-25 Mitchell in an outfit under James Doolittle. (7:13) [ Ed. note: Ewing mentions that his recollection may be flawed. General Doolittle was assigned to the Eighth Air Force in 1942, originally headquarter in Savannah, Georgia and later that year took command of the Twelfth Air Force in North Africa] A-20 Avenger (8:18) �• Ewing describes how the A-20 was his dream plane, since there was no co-pilot, the aircraft was his responsibility. He also describes sometimes flying with a navigator and up to three gunners. Also mentions that the waist gunner would sometimes use his turret to strafe ground targets. • Most of the people in flight school wanted to be fighter pilots and were disappointed to be assigned to bombers. Ewing initially didn’t know anything about the A-20, but was happy when he learned more about it. (9:30) New Guinea (10:10) • Was stationed in New Guinea and the Philippines. Wanted to island-hop the A-20 to New Guinea as a few did, but was shipped there by boat. • Ewing talks about his first mission, his squad leader, and the practice of “skipbombing” (12:10) • Ewing describes the types of missions flown, mostly in support of the infantry, also against Japanese shipping. Almost all were flown at treetop level, which Ewing enjoyed, making target acquisition and damage assessment easier. (14:20) • Ewing discusses casualties caused by dropping ordinance too close to friendly positions and gives a figure of 1,500 friendly troops killed. Ewing attributes this to faulty communications and talks about the observer flying in a loitering aircraft giving co-ordinates on the map that weren’t always accurate. Ewing says communications improved as they got experience, and didn’t blindly follow instructions (15:15) • Ewing describes in detail being hit and ditching his aircraft in the sea, hiding from the Japanese in the jungle for a night, his attempts to destroy the downed aircraft, and being rescued by a flying boat the next day. (18:18) [Ed. note: Ewing mentions towards the end of the interview that his gunner was also with him the entire time when he was shot down and rescued] • Ewing describes New Guinea and going on leave to Sydney, Australia. (28:40) • Ewing mentions that there were a lot of Japanese aircraft when he first arrived in New Guinea and that his second mission was against enemy airfields at Wewak in the north. • He also mentions that his favorite contact with the enemy was when they attacked during a dress parade on the airfield. Ewing also describes enemy fighter cover, anti-aircraft fire, and night attacks on his airfield. (29:56) �• Ewing mentions that on shorter missions, they usually had fighter cover, but not on longer missions. He also recounts an incident when low on fuel, he missed his initial landing, and had to circle around again, after landing, while taxiing off the runway, he ran out of fuel. (32:25) Philippines (35:17) • When Ewing and his unit moved to the Philippines, they loaded all their belongings into their aircraft. Ewing first arrived at an island south of Luzon, and ended up being stationed within visiting distance of Manila. • Ewing talks about the differences between people in the Philippines and those in New Guinea. He also tells about visiting Manila shortly after it had been liberated, and the Army’s takeover of a local brewery. (36:51) • Ewing talks about the Japanese being well dug-in and supplied. When they were hungry they would sometimes take a uniform and stand in the mess line. (31:22) After the War (39:17) • Ewing earned his points and left before Formosa fell. He returned home to Grand Rapids, and recalls being at his parents when the war ended. Recalls feeling good about the bombing of Japan. • Attended college for one more quarter, then worked as an insurance adjuster for thirty years. (40:52) Additional Wartime Recollections (43:35) • Ewing talks more about being shot down, and trying to keep his gunner calm. Speaks about a lot of gunners being mutilated or killed when ditching the A-20. • Ewing states that his squadron suffered a loss rate of ten or twenty percent overall. (46:33) • At the news of the bombing of Pearl Harbor was happy to be going in. Talks about anti-shipping missions and that a lot of the Japanese shipping consisted of converted merchantmen. Describes the armament of the A-20 and an incident where he sank a ship with gunfire. Mentions that he only attacked a Japanese tank once. Comments on communication with the Army on the ground. (47:35) • Considers the war a learning experience he was lucky to survive. Couldn’t recall the rank at which he left active service. Retired as a lieutenant colonel [in guard] in 1984 after 43 years of service. (51:58) �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ewing, William (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ewing, William Description An account of the resource William Ewing enlisted in the Air Force Reserves before the beginning of WW II and remained in the Reserves until 1984. During WW II he flew the A-20 Avenger out of New Guinea and later the Philippines before returning home after completing his tour. In this interview Ewing discusses basic training and flight training, combat experiences and procedures in the A-20, and being shot down and rescued. Mr. Ewing also discusses hearing about the end of the war and his feelings about the bombing of Japan, and what he did after the war. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Veterans Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-07-09 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context EwingW Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/30c56dfa183531c1b659106f249e396e.mp4 7c565701a16da9d5a183d0992c4486f7 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a6edac1a2426c2d27622346bd41da38f.pdf 088057bf3b67f3728086d4d63617a001 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran: Roger Faber Interview Length: (2:34.18) Interviewed by James Smither Transcribed by Chloe Dingens James Smither: We’re talking today with Vietnam veteran, Roger Faber. The interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Okay, Roger, start us off with some background on yourself; and to begin with where and when you were born? Roger Faber: Okay, I was born in Grand Rapids in Butterworth Hospital, November 5, 1945 and… JS: Now did your family actually live in Grand Rapids, or were you outside of it? RF: No, my family lived on Black Hills, in the city-limits, on the southwest side. And they were, I had a good upbringing. I had parents who loved me, they didn’t have a whole lot, but they took care of us. We had shoes and clothes; we had patches in the jeans and so on. But we were given a strong work ethic, it was very important, and also a high respect for authority quite literally. Whether it was a teacher in school, or the policeman, or the next-door neighbor, they were in charge, not- not us. And I was 11 years younger than my next sibling. They had a family, a sister and two brothers, and then I was, came way behind, so I was kind of like the second family. (1.49) JS: Right, you were the baby. RF: I had very nurturing parents and I’m thankful for that. I wish I had thanked them when I had the chance yet but that happens. JS: What were they doing for a living? �RF: My dad was a truck driver and delivered coal, back then, this was you know in the 50s. And my mother was stay at home, didn’t have a driver’s license. But one of my fondest memories is when I came home from school, she sat down with a cup of coffee and I had a glass of milk and some cookies, and we talked about my day. And then she said, “go change your clothes and go out and play.” We didn’t have television, and so we played in the neighborhood. It was a good- a good family, as were the rest of the neighbors. Very diverse, even somewhat racially integrated back then. Black Hills was, it wasn’t a racial thing, it was because of the black walnut trees. But it’s on the southwest side, kind of behind the Keeler Brass buildings on Godfrey. So, that’s where I grew up. JS: Okay, now did you finish high school? (2.55) RF: Oh yes. Yeah, I went to Christian school all the way. From Kindergarten through, I went to Southwest Christian, through ninth grade at the time, and then to Grand Rapids Christian High for three years. I graduated from there in January of 1964. They had half year classes, and you went from one grade to the next in January. And so I got into that; I started out in September, but when I was eight years old, I broke my leg pretty bad and I missed so much school, that I had to go back a half a year, because I missed about half a year. I took that and that’s how I got in that January class so to speak. JS: Alright, and now what did you do after you graduated? (3.37) RF: My brother had a painting business with Langenfaber Decorators. And I started working for him when I was sixteen, and I could drive and get to work. So, during high school, breaks and �summertime, I painted for him. I did that after high school for, I graduated in January ’64 and I did, I worked full time for him until March of ’65 when I went to Ferris. JS: Okay, and then you went so… but at that point, was it Ferris State College? RF: Yes, yeah. JS: Alright and what were you studying there? RF: Architecture. They had a program for architecture draftsmen. And I had had mechanical drafting in high school which I really enjoyed, but I didn’t want to draw threads on a bolt. I thought, you know, and I always had a fascination, I, when I was way back in middle school, I would buy magazines of house plans and study those and think, I can do that! I can do better! And so, I had interest in that and I- I knew I enjoyed painting, I still do, but I knew I that couldn’t do that for 50 years. My body wouldn’t take it. So, I thought, I better do something different. So, I made a decision I would, I, Ferris had that program, so I thought, I’ll apply to there, and if I get in, I’ll- I’ll try that. If I don’t, I will apply to the state police academy. Well, I got in Ferris. And went through, it was an eighteen months continuous program. And went through that and I got out of there in fine shape. I got a job in Madison, Wisconsin. Now this was ’65, ’66; I got done in August I guess of ’66. We were engaged for a year and I met my wife, of course, three years before that, but we dated and then we got married in September of ’66. I had this job in Madison, Wisconsin, but at that time, the draft was really on, cooking, in ’66. And getting back to my upbringing, we had this strong respect for authority, so I was engrained with the thought that don’t volunteer for the army, but if you’re drafted, you have to go, if you. Okay so that was my mindset. And evidently, the schools at that time, I had a student deferment while I was in school, and I can remember getting another deferment in the summer of ’66. But and I thought, well I’m all set for another year, because that’s what they usually were worth. Well, �evidently, the school had to notify your draft board that you’re no longer in school. So, somewhere along that winter of ‘66/’67, I got a notice for a- a physical, I was supposed to show up in Grand Rapids or go to Detroit. Well, I was living in Madison, so they arranged for me to go to, take a bus and go to Milwaukee and have a physical, which I did. That went well. It wasn’t a problem; I didn’t expect it would be. Although I, one interesting story there in Madison, when we got on the bus, the one fella had a prosthesis, a wooden leg. I’m thinking, man oh livin’ this, he should get deferred right here at the bus station, but he had to go. And then when we got to Milwaukee, they made him take his leg off before he got weighed. And then they told him to go sit down. But that was just kind of a humorous, that this is the way it goes, but so, I went through that and went back to work. And yeah in a few months, I got a notice for a draft that I had to go to, in May to a Grand Rapids bus station and I’d get inducted. (7.31) JS: Right, to back up a little bit, when you went for the physical, did you notice anybody trying to scam the system or were you aware of anything like that? RF: Well, there was talk about it you know, guys would eat soap or something to raise, I don’t know if any of that stuff worked. It, I suppose people tried to do things to flunk the physical, I did not. I again had this mentality you go if you’re physically fit, you’re gonna go. So, I didn’t, there wasn’t anything wrong, I guess. JS: But you didn’t really notice anybody doing anything like that? RF: No, no I didn’t. JS: Okay, now was the physical itself reasonably serious, or was it besides from the wooden leg thing, pretty cursory? �RF: It, well I don’t remember it being serious. We were all young, so we were healthy, generally. I think they were looking for things that would indicate that somebody was trying to get out of it, somehow. Whether they played like they were deaf, or because there would be a hearing test, and an eye test, I suppose, and blood pressure. It wasn’t you know, it wasn’t difficult, but I suppose they were looking for certain things and people that kept complaining. You know, they probably, you know they weren’t dumb. They could pick the- pick the guys out. (8.56) JS: Now, Madison’s also a college town. RF: Yeah. JS: At the time you actually went in, I mean did you notice any kind of anti-war stuff going on or were you aware of any of that? RF: I don’t think so, not then yet. I don’t, I think that came probably more in ’67. I wasn’t, I don’t remember. It’s a college town, and it’s a rather liberal town in their thinking, progressive maybe, but I can’t recall any demonstrations. There may have been some, but I just ignored it. JS: Yeah, and you weren’t in school yourself anyways. RF: No, no. JS: So, you had other things to do. Okay, and how much did you know about Vietnam at that point? RF: Nothing. Nothing. Probably couldn’t find it on a map. Other than being in the news, you know, you knew the word, but I didn’t know anything about the politics of it. I can’t recall, I learned most of that later. (9.54) �JS: Right, okay, so we get now, so it’s May of ’67 then you have to go and report now and be sent off for basic training. Where do you go for basic training? RF: I went from, well actually inducted in at Fort Wayne in Detroit, in that center. And that was kind of comical because we were supposed to have another physical. Well that physical was interesting, they said, “have you been to see a doctor since your last physical?” No, I hadn’t, so you passed. It was, that was the physical. JS: Right. And I had this recollection that the Marines would pick out people they wanted on some days and not other days. Well, the day I was going through, they weren’t picking anybody out, so I ended being sworn into the army. Got my service- service number: US 54967085; something you never forget. And they told us to memorize that on the train, no, we took a bus from Detroit to Fort Knox, Kentucky near Louisville. And I remember that was the weekend of the Kentucky Derby because there was all kinds of activity and hype and so on. But so, I went to Fort Knox for basic training. (11:15) JS: Okay, what kind of reception do you get at Fort Knox? RF: Well, you just, you know you get a haircut, and they throw all these clothes at you, and a box to put your civilian clothes in, and ship, they got shipped home. We were just, there were a lot of guys who were in the National Guard. And I don’t know, there’s a story about that too. Do you want to hear that? JS: Yeah. RF: When I was working in Madison, Wisconsin in a, in as an architectural draftsman for Flad and Associates, our spec writer was a major, we called him Sarge but he was a major in the �National Guard, and he could arrange to get us into the National Guard. But again, I opted not to do that, and that was a conscious decision that my wife Judy and I made. But when I- when I got to Fort Know for basic training, there were a lot of the guys in my company who were National Guard people there for basic training, so it was the same for everybody. The drill sergeants, there was, I don’t remember any physical abuse at all. Again, I was in pretty good physical shape, I could do what they asked me to do. They get kind of pushy you know and ask you to do silly things, but hey, that’s part of the thing, part of basic training, I guess. (12.44) JS: Alright, I mean had you kind of expect, I mean where you expected to be shouted at and that kind of thing? RF: Oh yeah. I kind of, I think I, my brother had, my older brother of the two brothers had been in the army during the Korean War, and so he probably clued me in a little bit. Not too much but… JS: Now did the instructors treat the guardsmen any differently from everybody else? RF: Not generally, but one guy did. He was also an attorney, and so he got some preferential treatment. Supposedly he had hemorrhoids and he couldn’t march, and this and that so he kind of got put off to the side. They didn’t treat us differently other than that, maybe. I do remember one other time, when we were just, on a Saturday, we were all put in formation and we had to march over to some building and we gave blood. This was not optional; it was just you did that. One fella was Jewish, and he objected to giving blood on the Sabbath. So, he was excused, but had to go back in on Sunday. And one of those things that happen in life that you know, that you just kinda don’t forget. They accommodated him. (13.58) �JS: Okay, alright so what did the actual basic training consist of? What were they making you do every day? RF: Mostly physical, PT, a lot of PT! That’s what you remember the most. You know, they told you when to get up, they told you when to shave, they told you… You’d have to think a whole lot. Everything was planned for you. We did a lot of running. Just obviously PT, they got us in shape. It, I don’t think basic training was terribly vigorous. Obviously, they told you how tohow to march, how to, where to make turns, and when to about-face, and present arms and order arms, and all that kind of stuff. How to salute properly. About revelry and about military courtesy and general orders on behavior. Classroom works like on first aid. We had these sticks with like a pillow on each end and we had to beat each other with it. Kind of silly, but I guess there was a reason for that too. (15.14) JS: Alright now did they give you; how did they figure out what to do with you coming out of basic training? RF: Oh, that was interesting, during basic training, well I guess when we got there, a day or two, we took written test. And I tried hard on the test to do my best, and I thought cause that’s a good thing to do. You do your best. And maybe one day I’ll go to the Army Corps of Engineers with my background, so I tried hard. And during basic training, they would call different guys out and talk to us about, you qualified to go be a radio repairman, or a medic, or I don’t know, just it’s a whole series of things. A warrant officer were specialized officers in particular field. But of course, they were looking for chopper pilots. I knew that was not a good idea. And I kept saying no, cause I probably even said, “look, I’m here for two years and I’m gonna go home.” So, you got two years, not three. And then one time they called out just two of us and said, “you scored �pretty well on your test and we can arrange to have your Congressman.” Who at that time was Jerry Ford for Grand Rapids or Kent County. “We can have, we can arrange to have your Congressmen an appointment to West Point for you.” “Oh, and how long is that?” “Well, you’ll be there for four years and then a five-year commitment following.” “No, no, like I said before, two years, then I’m done.” And so, I, my opinion what happened, is in my chart, or in my file, it was written down as “noncompliant;” this guy just says no to everything. I mean he does what he’s told but he’s not going to sign up. And so, at the end of basic training, a day or two before the end, we got orders, and my orders were for Fort Polk for 11-Bravo, 11-B. I don’t know what that is. So, I go to the orderly room and say, “what’s this?” Oh, the guy says, “that’s small arms infantry.” Whoa, so, I of course wrote home or called home; this is where I’m going, Fort Polk small arms infantry. Well, my wife’s grandma, who had for years written back and forth to Jerry Ford, just communicating, and so on and so forth. So, she writes Jerry Ford and says she didn’t think her grandson should be in the infantry. And he probably checked, and he, or he knew, and anyway she got a letter back, I wish I had that letter. He wrote back and said, “you’re right, your grandson probably shouldn’t have to be in the infantry, but if a person is drafted, the army can assign them to any job they qualify for. Now, your grandson qualified for a lot of things, but one of them is the infantry.” So, that’s how I got that. I attribute it to the fact that I was so stubborn. I, later I oh, OCS with another thing they offered. And piolet and all this stuff. Well OCS (Officer Candidate School,) I was told, or believed at the time, that you could sign up for OCS, go to that school, and then while you’re waiting for your class to start, you could say, “eh I think I changed my mind.” And then you could probably fall between the cracks, and they would say, “well, Faber, what can you do?” “I’m an architectural draftsman.” “Well, why don’t you go see �this Army Corps of Engineers building?” Well, I didn’t- I didn’t know that at the time, or I didn’t think that at the time, so I said no to OCS along with everything else. (19.10) JS: Well, I have interviewed somebody who tried that particular tactic and eventually wound up in the infantry anyway. Actually, went through most of it before he wound up there. But yeah, they were kind of onto- onto that one. RF: Oh, well, they probably should have been. So, I, that’s-that’s but… I- I think the reason I kept saying no, was that they figured, “this guy, we got a job for him, and we’ll give it to him.” Right or wrong, that’s what happened. JS: Well, the certainly needed foot soldiers. RF: That’s right! There was, that was the biggest need they had. JS: Okay, so now what was Fort Polk like? RF: Oh boy! It was hotter. Because now, I went in in May, so basic is two months. So, June, July, middle of July I take, get on a train for Fort Polk. I think we ended up in New Orleans or something because there was this Dixieland Band there at the train station and then a bus to Fort Polk. And this- this is the middle of July; it’s hot. And they were remodeling the barracks, so we lived in tents, or slept in tents. That was okay, the sides were rolled up, and you’re so tired you sleep. First time I ever saw an armadillo on the bus ride into Fort Polk. Never, didn’t even know what the thing was at first. And of course, they told us about snakes that you had to watch out for. At that time, at Fort Polk, they had a special area called Tiger Ridge, and that’s where we had AIT, or advanced infantry training on this Tiger Ridge and it was intense. It wasn’t undoable, but it was intense. The PT got more intense. The training got more intense. My two worst days, I think, in basic and AIT were pulling KP. To me, this made no sense. Get up at 4 �o’clock and just at the mercy of some mess sergeant who he, this was his- his time to shine you know. He could tell us what to do and, miserable days. I didn’t- I didn’t like the other days, but they weren’t as bad as KP, and for me. (21.33) JS: Alright, now were they consciously gearing your training for Vietnam? RF: Oh yes! Clearly, clearly! They talked about it all the time. And most of the drill sergeants and I think were, yeah, they talked about it, they were vets from Vietnam, they had been there. And so that was all the time, it was clearly we’re training you to go to Vietnam. No question about it. It just oozed from them that this is where you guys are going. Although, during that summer of ’67 occurred the war in Israel. For and so, then there was this big thing; well maybe you guys are gonna go to Israel, you know they got this war, seven days, I think. Seven-day war? JS: Yeah, six, six-day war. (22.23) RF: And of course, so, that died down and back to Vietnam you guys are going. It was- it was physically more strenuous, and I suppose mentally too, they were trying to toughen you up both ways. We had lessons on how to react in an ambush. I don’t think it ever worked that way, but we were told and trained that if you get ambushed, you don’t hit the ground, you turn into the direction of fire and you charge it. Well we didn’t do that in reality, but that was a training, and I suppose there would be an element of surprise if all these GIs did that. But it worked okay when everybody was firing blanks, but in the real world, they weren’t blanks anymore, so things were a little different. You had to know more about where this was coming from than just say, “well I think it’s coming from over there, that’s the way I’m going.” Not, it didn’t work that way. But it was, I- I think they treated us a little bit better, but again, I had this, my attitude was a bit of an �issue. I did what I was asked to do, but one time…we would run from one class or range to another one, again, I understand why, but always we would have to wait before the next class would start, for the stragglers. One day, I don’t know what was in me, but I decided that hey if they’re gonna wait, I’m gonna walk. So, I walked from one to another. Of course, I took a lot, quite a bit of abuse from the drill sergeants because this was not normal for me. But I said, “look, they’re gonna wait for me to get there, I know it, we’re gonna wait.” Probably didn’t help either. JS: Yeah. (24.19) RF: But you know, you, I had gotten to a point where I just felt, this, I’m tired of this. Run back and forth. You know just, come on, give us something that, make it more meaningful! JS: Okay, now were you a little older than most of the guys you were training with? RF: Yeah, I guess so. I- I was 21. But yeah, I was older than those that were enlisted out of high school, or something, so I was a little bit older. And I- I had, I was married, and I had been to college. And I had a career that I wanted to pursue. I had my faith and I just, I didn’t want to be… I- I chaffed at the idea of being treated so, in such a way. JS: Yeah, because part of it is sort of programming people and when you’re younger, you’re easier to program. (25.08) RF: Oh yes, but I will say, the army is very good at training people to do what- what they want them to do. There’s no question about that because they did it to me and they did it to all of us. And for most of us it was effective down the line, for some. And nobody knows how they will react in a fire fight until you’re in one. And sometimes guys just froze, they just, they couldn’t function. And you don’t know that, training doesn’t- doesn’t do that. Yeah, they, it was intense. I �got to say too when I went in the service, when I got drafted, I weighed 150 pounds. When I got out of AIT, I weighed 175, and that was not fat, you know I was just muscle and shape. So, they did that. On the other hand, when I came back from Vietnam, I weighed 150 pounds again. JS: Right, now while you were in basic and then AIT, did you ever get to go off the base? (26.15) RF: I did once in basic training. We were allowed one, three-day pass. And at that time, my brother, Warren, who had been in Korea, and his wife, Verna, brought my wife Judy down and I had this- this weekend pass, and we stayed in Louisville. So, I got off. And AIT, I don’t remember anything like, I don’t remember getting off base, whether it was offered or if I had been offered, I would’ve done it. But I think I was on the base. I never left this ‘Tiger Ridges’ as they called it. JS: Okay, alright so is AIT another eight weeks? RF: Yes. JS: Okay and then what happens at the end of that? RF: I get a 30-day leave. You get orders, and my orders were to report to Fort Lewis, Washington on a specific day in October. And I finished up in September, so from middle of July, middle of August, middle of September, I got a 30-day leave before you go overseas. And so, first time I’d ever been on a plane. I took a plane from Fort Polk to the Dallas Fort Worth airport, what do they call it? Love Airport, maybe? Whatever it is. And from there I took a flight from there to Chicago. Never been on a plane before, so that was a new experience. JS: Okay. RF: Turns out I’d be on a plane a lot. JS: Yeah. �RF: And my wife met me in O’Hare Field. I kid you not! I was walking through the airport, I had to buy a ticket to get to Grand Rapids and my wife and I met right at a corner in O’Hare Airport! It was incredible! She went, she had flown down to meet me. So, that was really, really, really nice! So, I had a 30-day leave and that was good. As you can imagine, we could spend time with family and… (28.17) JS: Yeah, but you know you’re going to Vietnam? RF: Oh yeah, yeah that’s in the back of your mind. But also, I, there’s this faint hope that something will go different at Fort Lewis. You know you always got, I- I had this illusion that something will turn out, something will work out. And but, I should have known better. But it was a nice- nice 30-day leave. This was, everybody got that before they went overseas. And all I had to do was get from Grand Rapids then to Fort Lewis. On you, and you got paid when you left Fort Polk. Travel, mileage, from Fort Polk to Fort Lewis, whatever that mileage was, I don’t remember the rate. But, so, you used that money to buy tickets. JS: Right, okay so now you go out to Fort Lewis. How long do you stay there? (29.12) RF: Just a few days. And I remember this was October, and it was drizzling all the time. Now you really didn’t want to be outside, but of course, you had to go to the mess hall, and I suppose there was some paperwork and things they had to check. And of course, there was constantly, Fort Lewis is right adjacent to McChord Airforce Base, and which was convenient. You know we processed at Fort- at Fort Lewis. And I- I can just think, it was a few days. And then I of course was told or given paper that we’re gonna get on a bus someday at a certain time and haul you over to McCord Airforce Base. �JS: Alright now when you fly to Vietnam, were you on a commercial plane or military? RF: Yeah- yeah this was commercial, chartered. And they packed us in as much as they could. I want to say they were 737s, but I know they had a center aisle that was just this wide and three seats on each side of the aisle, and pack it in. We got food in a box or something to eat, which was okay. It was a long flight. I can remember coming home better as far as time goes, but it’s about 24 hours. JS: Okay. RF: We stopped in Hawaii. And we stopped on Wake Island in Guam to refuel, I guess. You didn’t get off the plane, you just stayed on. Nobody wanted us around, in case we’d run away, I guess. JS: Yeah, alright so where did you land in Vietnam? (30.52) RF: Cam Ranh Bay. JS: Okay. RF: And that I wrote in my journal too. We’re approaching Vietnam, and it’s dark, it’s nighttime. And I think, wait, we’re going to Vietnam. How do you do this in the dark? You know, they’re probably giving me a gun and say, “show up in a year and we’ll take you home.” Literally! I was afraid! And as we come closer and closer, there’s lights on all over. And I’m thinking this is terrible! I wasn’t prepared for that. And of course, we landed. And there’s buses and lights on, and herd you on the next bus and bring you to a barracks. And you can find a bunk and we’ll wake you up in the morning to eat breakfast. I got, I woke up and I went outside; there were guys waterskiing on the bay and I thought, boy this isn’t that bad! This is pretty nice! And little did I know, I, this was only my first stop you know. But was only there a couple of days too in the in- �processing center. They were, they moved you right on through. They had the, the skins were greased man, they knew this operation! JS: Okay now did you have orders to go to a specific unit or did you only get those after you got to Vietnam? RF: Got to Cam Ranh Bay and then you got orders to go, in my case, to the 1st Cav. I don’t know if it included Bravo Company at that time, but it was to the 1st Cav. in An Khê. JS: Okay. Alright, and how did they get you there? RF: By plane. (32.33) JS: Is this now a military transport? RF: Oh yeah, now we’re on a military plane. Like a C131, I think, I’m pretty sure, or 123. But anyway, we flew from Cam Ranh Bay up to Da Nang, as I learned later what Da Nang was all about, which was further north. And we, no processing there but that then we got on probably a Caribou, which was a smaller plane, and from there we went to An Khê from Da Nang. JS: Okay, what part of south Vietnam was An Khê in? RF: I would say the Central Highlands, as I recall. It’s about half-way, approximately. And the army base there was Radcliffe, Camp Radcliffe, but we always called it An Khê. It was a little tiny village just outside of Radcliffe, Camp Radcliffe. We just called it “O-Business” An Khê. (33.32) JS: Right, now the base itself was pretty good size though, right? RF: Oh yeah! That was a good size, I have a hard time judging it. But it was a good, yeah and all wooden barracks. There was a hospital there, or an infirmary. Motor pool, fuel depot, I didn’t see �much of that. Again, when you get to the airstrip, get on another bus or some vehicle and brought us over to, in my case, to the, I guess to the First- First Battalion or Brigade I don’t know. JS: You’ve got, I mean a division breaks down into Brigades, and the Brigades are made up of Battalions, and Battalions have Companies in them. And you were in Bravo Company, so B-Company, that’d be First Battalion normally. RF: Fifth Cav. JS: Yeah, Fifth Cavalry Regiment. RF: Which would have been like a Brigade. You know, Fifth Brigade, 1st Cav. Division. So, I was in Bravo Company, or B. And again, there’s some orientation that you do, they’re treating you much better, you know. JS: Okay, what kind of orientation do you get? (34.41) RF: Well we- we I can remember clearly sitting on some bleachers watching a combat air assault, which the Cav. just did constantly. We did that two or three times a day. Bring in, they would bring in some artillery rounds and then some gunships firing rockets down and then choppers with, Hueys with guys on that you’d jump out and create a perimeter around this landing zone that you were hitting. And we witnessed one of those, just so we knew what that was all about. We got our first chopper ride, and I remember thinking, God there’s no doors on this thing; you sit on the floor with your feet on the skids and your pack and a rifle and all this gear. And by George, I don’t want them to turn so that my side is down because I’ll just slide right out. That doesn’t happen because of centripetal force just, you’re just stuck there. But the first time, there’s a little anxiety, but still, I thought, hey, people do this all the time. I’m, I get no worse off than the rest of them, if I fall out, I won’t be the first one. But so, we had our first �chopper ride. We just kind of buzzed around, and so that was good. I got to tell you something that happened there though! We were sleeping in a barracks, and this guy comes in from the field. He was soon to go home within a few days, so he was out-processing as we were inprocessing, we’re all in the same building. And he comes in the building carrying a helmet that he had had. And that helmet had a gun shot that went in kind of from the back and came out the front. It was a good-sized hole. More, not an M-16 or even an M-60, but maybe an M-50 round. And he had that thing on when that thing, when it got shot. And he said but the only injury he had was a piece of the steel pot that’s imbedded in his neck. But he was given permission to take that helmet home. He showed us, the round went through there, it went through the steel pot and the helmet liner, and he had some letters; we always tucked our letters inside the helmet liner in between the web and the fiberglass to keep them dry, because everything was wet. So, tuck your letters in there that you wanted to write home about. And it even sliced through the upper level of that letter in his helmet. Boy, was that an eye opener! But they had given him permission to take that thing home with him because that was quite the souvenir. But it didn’t get him to go home, it just, he could take, it was his time to go home, he had been there a year. JS: Right- right, okay so… Of course, that didn’t do much for my confidence about. (37:48) JS: Yeah, when you were in the orientation, did they try to teach you anything about Vietnam or the Vietnamese people, and how to deal with them? Or just stay away from the women? RF: Well, yeah, I guess. I think some of that went way back to AIT. Because a lot of transmitted diseases, and you’re still representing your country here, you know- you know how to behave. �But yeah, there was lessons like that probably back at AIT and probably reinforced again there, although I don’t remember the specifics of that. JS: Alright and then once you finish that orientation, now do they send you to your unit? RF: Yes. I don’t remember, we must have been choppered out, but now you’re getting fewer and fewer. Now there’s probably only two of us that were gonna go out to Bravo company, maybe, maybe I was the only one. But at any rate, choppered out. Don’t know where I’m going, of course. Turns out, they were guarding bridges in what they call the Bong Song Valley. And it was a river, and it had bridges on it. And they, the army did that, they- they would… did this several times, they would take you out of the field and give you some light duty, which was kind of nice. You got to sleep in a bunker and get a little more rest and you didn’t walk all day through the jungle, so it was a break. They at that time, Bravo Company was guarding bridges, so I ended up, got dropped off by the end of this bridge, and I don’t know, somebody probably met me, they knew I was coming. And they knew what squad and I was gonna be, what platoon and what squad, I don’t remember if I was in the first, second, or third platoon, but I remember the squad: there were three of us; a squad was just three. And the other two guys were stationed at this bridge, but they were up on a hill, near the bridge, at a bunker, at kind of an outpost, and they were spending their- their day out there, and maybe their night. But anyway, somebody walked with me up there and introduced me to these two guys. I don’t remember their names. One of them was a really, a small guy, wiry and hardened, and the other guy was much, a little bit bigger. And but introduced me, and we probably sat around after a few minutes talking about where you’re from and what’s your name and this and that. And then they said, “but why don’t you just stay down at the bridge while we’re here? You know, meet some of those guys since we don’t really need you up here anyway.” That’s great, okay. So, back down by the bridge, and �there’s this little bunker built above ground right at the end of the bridge. It’s a fairly wide river, and there was also people guarding on the other end of the bridge, maybe that was a different platoon. So, we killed time during the day, you didn’t have much to do. At night… and of course, the chopper would bring out food. So that was all good. Chopper would come out in the morning with breakfast, ammunition if you needed it, you just help yourself. And C-rations to eat at noon. And then hot meal again at night, more ammunition, and mail. At night, I had to take my turn walking halfway across the bridge and back, and a guy from the other side would walk his halfway across the bridge and back. And we were supposed to drop hand grenades over the edge from time to time. Don’t know why, except that maybe we just let the Vietnamese know we were still awake and know we were there. And so, we decided the thing to do is, if you drop, just pull the pin, let the lever fly, you got four seconds in design. If you did that real quick, the hand grenade would fall in the water and the mud and water would fly up all over the place. If you- if you flipped it out too soon, let go of it too late, it would go off before it got to the water, and then just powder the bottom of the bridge, which was just wood with gaps between, with shrapnel. So, we decided the best thing to do is to wait a couple seconds after you let the lever go, and try to, and just a game, see if you could get it to explode just as it hit the water. Kind of a dumb thing to do, but you got to do something. And you do that for an hour, hour and a half, whatever you’re supposed to, and then you wake up the next guy, and then he’d take his turn. We did that, another thing that happened when we were there, is a chaplain came out. Didn’t see the chaplain very often, but once in a while the chaplain would come out to the field. And I remember that time, because it was the first time. And he, I don’t know if he was Protestant or Catholic, doesn’t matter; he was Christian. And because the Catholic fellas would go up and have confession, walk up. And those of us where Protestants, we just sat there. And so that was okay. He, I remember �he couldn’t wait to get back on a chopper and take off. And we were in a- in a fairly secure place. And we didn’t take any gunfire; it was no problem the few days we were there. But then that ended, and then we go back out in the boonies. (43.19) JS: Okay, now during the day were you checking the traffic as it went back and forth. RF: No. JS: Just let the Vietnamese come and go? RF: No. Unless you saw something that was very unusual, if there’s some guy carrying a gun. But there were always what we call ARVNs. They were, they would be on the buses or motorcycles and we never knew what they were doing. Didn’t really pay much attention to them. You didn’t, gotta admit I didn’t trust them a whole lot, and I don’t think any of us did. JS: Yeah that’s the ARVNs, that’s the South Vietnamese Army. RF: Yeah, yeah. JS: Okay, what impression by now do you have of the Vietnamese themselves? You’re watching them on the bridge and that kind of thing for a few days. Did anything register with you yet? RF: The language kind of irritated me. No, it was not their fault, but I didn’t know what they were saying. And there’s always this, “what are you talking about?” You know, of course, they didn’t know what we were talking about either. But yeah that- that has stuck with me for many, many years. I’ve finally gotten over that. God, probably 20, 25 years ago, I was in a McDonalds and there was a Vietnamese family and they were talking Vietnamese and it kind of made the hair stand up on the back of my neck, just the remembrance. So, that struck me. I don’t know if it was when I was at the bridge, but another thing is they, we thought they- they chewed beetle nut, �and it was I think it was a gum or a narcotic, I don’t know what it was, but their teeth would turn black, so they often looked like they didn’t have teeth. That struck me. And of course, their clothes, they often, the women, in these black clothes, the pants and everything black, and these hats. And you kind of get used to that real quick. They would try, I don’t remember, it wasn’t there specifically, but they were always… typically, if you were interacting at all, they were trying to sell you stuff because they wanted money. Can’t blame them. (45.24) JS: Okay, now when you’re on bridge duty, I mean were you getting solicited by people at all or? RF: No, I don’t remember that. JS: Okay, alright so how long did you stay at the bridge? RF: Oh, just a, I think if I had gotten there when the platoon had gotten there…the battalion…the company, it might have been a week. But I was probably there three or four days. JS: Okay alright so what comes next? RF: Okay, out in the field. And that was my first experience of a real combat air assault. And we did that, and then when you hit the ground, then the lieutenant of the company would say, “okay, we have to go so many klicks or kilometers in a certain direction,” and he’d point out somesomething on horizon that we’re heading towards. And these were always what the army called “search and destroy.” And we believe that there was some intelligence that said there was some activity in this area. Maybe you run, you were told you were gonna run across a village, maybe not. So, you did that, and you got to where you were supposed to go, and then the next thing you know, well they’re saying we got to make a little clearing for choppers they’re gonna, hey bring you someplace else and you do the same thing. And that would happen two or three times during �the day. Of course, again, the routine was in the morning, everything kind of works together. How a company operated with three rifle platoons and a mortar platoon. And the mortar platoon, you were always together but at night, the mortar platoon… you’d set up this LZ, a small camp, and the mortar platoon would be in the center, and one rifle platoon would build a perimeter around it, dig a little fox hole wide enough for three of you- you always worked in three. These two guys I met, we, the three of us were always together. And other groups of three. Well and if you were gonna stay with the mortar platoon, which was rotated between the three rifle platoons, one night with them, two nights on ambush, dig this little fox hole that three of you could sit at the edge and get your feet in there and pile the dirt out in front and build a hooch behind it so you got to sleep under the ponchos. And somebody had to be awake at each spot each, all the time, so you rotate, everyone got rotated again: hour and a half awake, wake up the next guy, he was awake for an hour and a half, and the third guy an hour and a half, or an hour, whatever you agreed. And then in the morning, every morning, the two platoons that were on ambush would come back in. And then food choppers would show up with breakfast, ammunition… oh, and I think, I was told it was unique to the Cav., we had this mad minute where all the rifle platoons would fire one clip of ammo through their rifle to clean it out. We never cleaned them, we just squirted mosquito repellant in the chamber and run 18 rounds through it to clean the thing out of the dirt and water. So, we got ammo; if you needed it, you helped yourself. Hot breakfast, God, I don’t eat pancakes to this day! Pancakes, pieces of pancake and some eggs, instant eggs. But you ate because you were hungry. And then they also threw out these boxes of C-rations. A carton, several cartons, enough for everyone to have C-rations. You opened up the top, flipped it upside down on the ground, the whole carton, because the names of the meals were printed on the top. And you pull the carton off and so now you got probably a dozen boxes on the ground, but you �don’t know which one. So, everybody’d pick up a box and whatever that box was, that was your lunch. Except, that nobody liked ham, well, most people didn’t like ham and lima beans. And one that I think nobody ate was ham and eggs chopped. But there was spaghetti and there was pork stake and scalloped potatoes, that was pretty good, spaghetti was good. But I can remember the two bad ones. We had a Sargent Bacon, was the first sergeant in our company, a big black man. He loved ham and lima beans, so whoever got ham and lima beans go find Sargent Bacon and trade whatever he had for your ham and lima beans, so you could at least get rid of that. If you had ham and eggs chopped, just leave it! Take the little cup of applesauce or peaches with you, little can of fruit, take the sundry pack; which had like hot chocolate mix in it, and toilet paper, salt and pepper and sugar, yeah maybe some toothpaste, a can opener. So that was every morning, and then away you go again, more combat air assaults. So, you know just day after day. This was just, oh man it- it… I didn’t say it was meaningless, it was boring in many, most of the time, except when you made contact and then just in an instant, everything changed. You had a rush of adrenaline and everything’s changed. But most of the time, it could be days, nothing happens. Except you just… (51.30) JS: Okay, now what was ambush duty like? RF: Ambush? That was always interesting. Again, when the company ended for the day, wherever that might be, you set up this camp for the night. Mortar platoon, one platoon, rifle platoon around it. So, two nights you had to go on ambush and well, you’d eat supper, get mail, ammunition, supper, mail. And that was always nice, and then go out on ambush. And whoever was pulling point, it was, you didn’t know where you were going to go, but the point man, and I was one, the three of us pulled point for our platoon. So again, we rotate everything. You know �you’d pull point for a day and then you’d have two days where you didn’t, you’d be the second and third guy. So, the point guy that day, would go out, and if you found a little stream, maybe you’d seen it earlier in the day, or some other feature, and you think, well, there could be a spot for an ambush. But you tried to get there just at dusk. And if it wasn’t quite dark enough, you’d just walk past it, make a big loop, come back at dusk. And then everybody laid down, the three of you, again. And about five yards over, or the army said meters, five meters over, another group of three, and three, and three. Well, the first, the end groups of three, you had a Claymore mine and you walked the Claymore mine out, I think it was like 150 feet or something, I don’t know what that wire was. You’d put the firing cap in the Claymore mine. The Claymore mine was probably about that long, that high, that thick, plasticine case. You’d slip the firing pin in it and walk the wire back to the trigger at your position. That’s what the two end groups did, so that if you heard something coming through you could fire this claymore mine. But you didn’t fire the claymore mine until right away. You wanted whoever was coming to get in your line of fire, but if more was happening, you could always fire this claymore mine. So, you did that. Now, you did not build a hooch. You were just laying down in the grass, the wet, if it was raining you were in the rain and whatever, it was dark by now. And again, three of you. Somebody had to be awake and you just reach over and wake up the next guy. And no fox hole, everything was quiet, and you spent the night then. (54.23) JS: What kind of terrain were you in? Were you in the highlands or lowlands closer to the coast? RF: Yeah, we were at that point we were in the highlands. Which is quite a, I don’t know if ‘jungle’ is the right word. We went through thick stuff, even if we were on a trail that the �Vietnamese had built or cut. They were this short, and we were all you know, other than this one guy, I can’t remember their names…but the three of us…this one guy was a little bit shorter but I’m six foot tall. I had to stoop over to get through here. There were times when you actually, if you were pulling point, you carried your weapon on semi-automatic. Everybody else behind you was supposed to be on safe and you could flip it to automatic. We never fired these M-16s on fully automatic. First of all, the recoil just, you couldn’t control where you’re shooting enough. So, the point man is on semi-automatic, and everybody else is supposed to be on safe. Just for, because you’re going through thick brush sometimes and the trigger could get jerked, action. But so, what was I gonna say? It was something, oh, the point man, if you were walking after combat air assault and you got the instructions on where you were going, it was the point man’s, nobody gave him/ told him how to get there, you picked your own way, and everybody followed, nobody complained, you know if he picked a bad route and had to chop through some jungle with a machete, so be it, he did it. He has to make the way for us. There were rice patties around, and we’d often end up walking through rice patties. I felt sorry for the Vietnamese, they would be screaming at us. Of course, we didn’t know what they were saying, but you knew they weren’t happy. And I don’t know if it bothered us a lot. I felt bad for them, but hey, I had a job to do. I got to get through here. Didn’t, that wasn’t nice, and no wonder they hated us. You know, here’s a guy trying to raise rice for his family, he doesn’t want a car in his driveway. He doesn’t want a television in his hooch, he wanted rice! The rice patties were dirty water. They would, they had terraced them a little bit so the water would run through a gutter in the dyke into the next one until the water gradually found its way. (56:59) JS: Would you walk on the dykes or would you slog through? �RF: Sometimes we walked right through the water. Sometimes on the dyke, but that was probably not the safest. The safest place was in the rice patty, there weren’t, we didn’t worry about land mines in the rice patty. We worried about little trip wires on the dykes, so. You’d probably take the- the patty over a tripwire. JS: Okay. RF: The, but when you got… the next time you got a break, you didn’t take a break in a rice patty, but you got on some dry, higher ground, and you’re gonna okay, we’re gonna take a break. Whether it was for lunch or whatever the reason, you take your boots off because almost always you would have leeches on your legs, your ankles, and up your calf a little ways. Couldn’t pull them off. They were, oh, probably 3/8 inches wide as I recall, and maybe an inch or inch and a half long. Gray, dark gray and they would be attached. And there’s two ways to get them off: either use a cigarette lighter and heat them up and they would drop off or you take mosquito repellant and squirt them, and they would drop off. But you always did that, and your feet were always wet. No socks, just boots. Wet and dirty! (58.17) JS: Now when you were going over land, would you use trails when they were available, or did you stay off of them? RF: That was up to the point man, his judgment on what this looked like. The problem with walking on the trail is that’s the best place to get in an ambush. Because they knew Americans tended to be a little lazy and they wanted to find the easiest way to get to wherever they wanted to get. And, but again, it was the point man. I don’t remember taking us, leading us on a trail. Maybe for a short distance, but you’re always on high alert. Actually, the best place to be in this whole company, which as I recall, we were about 80 strong, I think we were understaffed, but 80 �was about what we ever had. And you’re all walking with about five yards between you. Safest place to be, except for trip wires, was at the front end or the back end, because if you’re going to get in an ambush, they’re going to take the middle group, so in some sense, pulling point was not a bad thing, except you had to be extra alert. (59:37) JS: Now how long were you in that highlands area? RF: For the, my entire time in the field I was in the highlands area. A couple of experiences that I had then; one time it was my turn to pull point and a couple I don't really remember I might be combining two times because just for the sake of time now. I, it was my turn to pull point that day and I had a bad feeling about it, but you can't- can't say well I don't want to do this, you're here Faber, do your job. So, you don't complain but I was nervous about it. It didn't feel good and we were on a- on a little trail or it was wide enough to have a vehicle on, but we were we're kind of, I was getting instructions from the lieutenant on where we had to go, how far. And I prayed that this was gonna be okay today and we it was a grassy area and what we called the elephant grass it was tall grass but probably on me, up at my chest. Elephant grass we called it, for… it was tall and I'm heading through here so I wasn't too worried about an ambush because there was no place for anybody else to hide and it was quite a ways away from this little road or trail that we had left and I could see that there was a bald spot in the grass. So, I thought wow that could be a hole in the ground or something, I don't know what's kind of curious. So, I kind of angle over there and I got closer and I thought kinda looks like a truck tire, what in the world is a truck tire doing out here in this field. Take a few more steps and it was a python just rolled up digesting his meal I guess and so I said to the guy behind me, “had a big snake here.” So, I not going to kick the snake so I walked and kept going but I would turnaround periodically and some �of guys would walk up and take a picture and some guys would be walking way over here you know. It was kind of humorous. Everything went good, but when I prayed I did have this calmness, say Rog, it's okay whatever, you're fine, you're okay. So, that was good now I don't know if those two were the same day, you know this is 50 years ago literally and, but it was it was boring most of the time- most of the time. I felt sorry for the Vietnamese. These we'd come across these little villages and they're just scared to death of us, you could tell that they would cower and- and I think that they- they tried not be friendly but to… didn't want to do anything to upset us. So, they didn't hardly dare move and I'm sure that when the VC or NVA would come along they would behave similarly, they would be friend of course they could speak the language, we knew nothing. We didn’t have an interpreter in the field with us. We didn't have any I think S3 is intelligence that was all back at on An Khê. If we took a prisoner, we get him on a chopper or a casualty, a Vietnamese casualty, get him on a chopper, and they’d fly back to An Khê and take care of whatever happened back there. We would do first aid on them if they had been wounded but we didn't. (1:03.19) JS: Okay just, so you arrive basically what in October of ‘67 or November? Okay and… RF: October I got there. JS: Yeah alright and then how long do you spend actually with… RF: In the field like that? Well what we call it, well again I want to touch on a few other and incidents when we would get a break from this field business and we one time we went back to An Khê and we were on QRF a Quick Reaction Force. And then we- we were allowed to have a couple of guys maybe go to the PX, but most of us had to be there at that barracks that if something happened, we could jump on choppers and respond. So, we got a call we- we had to �get on these Deuce and a half trucks because there was a traffic problem between An Khê and Pleiku, a traffic issue. We got out there and that issue was a python was on the road and just on the shoulder and these little guys on these motor scooters didn't want to go around and the buses were jammed up and so what you gonna do, what are we gonna do? So, we shot it. I mean we shot it and shot it, we- we don’t mess with a snake. Well then, they- they get a call, the radio man gets a call that the- the captain, the adjutant wanted, this snake. Oh, you got to be kidding we got to get this snake up on the Deuce and a half, what a job, but we did it. I was in back- back at An Khê at some point and this, talk to this adjutantnt he was- he was from Wyoming, City of Wyoming so we had a little bit in common I could lieutenant or Captain Holbeeke was his name and I said, “what about that snake? Whatever happened to that snake?” He said, “I'll show you.” He rolled it out it was 22 feet long at the widest part it had to be 18 inches wide all dried and this was his souvenir, his souvenir he didn’t have anything to do with it, except he had it skinned. JS: Yeah. RF: But you know funny thing, or funny and also if you went to the PX when we were in QRF, picked up a few things I don’t know what we bought it doesn't matter. Get to the checkout line and of course these people that were stationed at the, at An Khê, they'd get out of line because we smelled bad, we looked bad, we acted bad, we had a rifle, and ammunition on us they got out of line and let us go, pretty cool. (1:06.01) JS: Well I had been asking about time, actually just for frame, we're not necessarily done with the field time yet. RF: Okay. �JS: But you're getting there because at the end of January the Tet Offensive starts and both before and after that the division does move, but so basically though to get a back, so basically how long were you working out of on An Khê before you went anywhere else? RF: Okay that well first I got called out of the field in December. JS: Okay. RF: And that- that happened well I got to go back, I mentioned Sergeant Bacon, first sergeant good guy. After you, a new guy had been in the company for a week or ten days at lunchtime he'd come and sit by you and just say, “hey let's talk.” And so, he wanted to know you know where you're from, you know would did you do before you got, were you drafted? Did you in enlist? Just wanted to get to know a nice- nice thing to do. Makes you feel a little more part of the unit and so I don't know I told him what my past a little bit and didn’t think much of it. Well we were again we got called out of the field and we were now guarding bridges between An Khê and Pleiku again this you know maybe a week, less than a week but a few days of rest and so we were guarding this little bridge and one, and the truck was from An Khê would come out in the morning and drop off food and ammunition, go to the next bridge, the next bridge, and finally come back pick up the chow containers and one morning they said, “Faber get your gear together you got to go back to An Khê,” and I'm thinking maybe one of my parents died or something I got to go maybe I gotta go home something bad happened. So, the truck left I ate, got all my stuff together, truck came back it stopped, I threw my stuff on the truck, get on a truck with these guys, we get back to An Khê and they said, “you got to report to the orderly room.” Okay so I went in there and the First Sergeant- Sergeant Lewis said to me, “you got a journalism degree?” “No, I don't.” I think, oh shucks man I'm back out in the field, when’s that truck leaving? He says, “can you type?” I said, “oh yeah I can type,” and well I had typing in high school we didn't �have computers, but I could type. All ten fingers, and not real fast but I could type, and my nature is to do it right, do it slow enough but do it right. So, he said, “okay, you can be S1 clerk.” So that's how that happened I ended up taking the guy's place and he was gonna go back home and so that- that's how that happened and then I thought you know that all stems from that conversation with Sergeant Bacon. You know he put in a word that when they had a job like that, I got this guy Faber, I want you to talk to him. I really think so, unfortunately, he was a casualty and never got to talk to him again, never got to thank him. I don't remember if he was killed or if he was wounded but I never saw him. JS: Okay… RF: And that happened about a week before Christmas of ‘67. JS: Okay now back at the time in- in the field you talked about you know being at an ambush duty and this kind of thing and in these camps at night, did you ever have contact, did enemy attack you or did you spring an ambush? (1:09.32) RF: Not an ambush, not an ambush in the dark, that but that brings up another memory when we loaded our- our magazines, or clips as we called them with- with more rounds we put in two regular rounds and a tracer, two regular and a tracer, and a tracer of course you could see this orange glow. You could see that in a daytime but at night you can really- really showed up. Didn't have an ambush activity that was really pretty rare because the Vietnamese wanted to keep their head down too. So, that was, we would get ambushed during the day, but they knew where they were and they know where to run, we- we never did so we didn't set up an ambush during the day. If we made contact, it was because we walked into something or we- we were walking towards a village and we got some- some gunfire from a village. But not at night. �JS: Okay so, when you had contact and you're out on patrol and so forth would it be just a couple of shots quick or more organized thing? (1:10.35) RF: It was more than just a sniper. There was, we and that varied but once in a while it’d just be a sniper, but it was more organized than that. They had a little plan it was almost like a mini, if it was by a village they had a- they had a purpose and there again I don't know why we did this, but we would often burn a lot of things in that village and I thought no wonder these people hate us. Why are we doing, this is not a way to make friends you burn their hooch down for what? Just because you think there's some ammo in there. Won’t talk too much about that, I'll talk about one time I wasn't pulling point I was third guy that day, so I probably pulled point the day before but we're rolling up an incline and all of a sudden, the point man started shooting rounds off. Well the two of us behind us, one went a little to the left, I went a little bit to the right, and we kept going up carefully. There was a bunker and he saw a; he’s telling us what happened he saw a rifle sticking out of the bunker and it was in the ground bunker with a cover on it. And then the guy he could even see the guy behind the rifle, so he shot. There again for some, we were told that our orders were not to fire unless we were fired at. Well who come up with this idea, you know you can't do that. Why, nobody, I mean come on you sent me over here but don't tell me when I can shoot. So, anyway he- he shot the guy and he probably slid down into the bunker a little bit but then another guy came out and ran around and I saw this, he started running around and all three of us shot didn't see a weapon, didn't care. We knew we were in bad shape here, and that guy got hit in the knee or in the leg but put him down and that was I think the point man threw a concussion grenade down in the bunker and that'll take, get anybody else out of there and by that time the rest of the company is coming and platoons coming up. Building a big perimeter �and the- the medic is there and the lieutenant and the first sergeant wanting to know what happened. You know you got a reporter or at least a verbal reporter maybe he filled out a paper, an incident report. So, the guy that was pulling point was with, telling him and I'm sitting there too, and the medic is working on this, wrapping this guy’s knee up. Machine gunner off to the side, his machine gun, he was gonna shoot, that's right, he was gonna shoot some rounds down in this bunker and his machine gun, m60 jammed. So, he goes out on the perimeter and he monkeys with it gets it unjammed and all of a sudden this burst of m60 rounds. Yeah we all were startled by that but this poor Vietnamese died and he had this wound in his leg, he didn't die of the wound I think he died of fear but he got, he can understand here's all these big Americans talking a foreign language you got some guy messing with your leg, you don't know what he's doing to it. Anyway, not good- not good. (1:14.17) JS: Okay and how common was it to actually have a firefight during that period when you were in the field? How often would those happen? RF: Well sometimes you might go a week without and other times it would be once or twice a week. They- they sent us you know they must have had information, but we made contact when the Vietnamese wanted us to. JS: Right. RF: You know they when they thought they could cause more trouble than we could they wouldthey would- they would cause the contact because they knew how to get away, we didn't- we didn’t. JS: Yeah, I mean was there, were you aware of any effort to do things like count bodies or count enemy casualties after these events? �RF: Well we recorded we saw and that- that was, and the word was you count killed and wounded. But for every KIA we, the army assumed two WIA’s. In the documentary and in the books, I read about it later I don't watch movies about Vietnam, never. Well I watched Forrest Gump but that was humorous too but otherwise I don't- I don’t watch any of these Good Morning America or anything. But later I found out these numbers were padded, just terribly and the documentary it was incredible, was gross, some said, somebody along the chain of command says, “this isn't believable, we don't care, we don't care, somebody will believe it.” Well yeah, we did we, I’m sure that the lieutenant the company commander actually it was always the lieutenant I think company commander was supposed to be a captain. (1:16.02) JS: Normally sometimes the first lieutenant would do that, you have a lieutenant being a platoon leader yeah. RF: Yeah, yeah but we didn’t have any captains out there we just didn’t, they didn’t have enough evidently. JS: Right. RF: So, maybe a first lieutenant but whoever company commander was filled out some report whether it was probably by radio. I mean what we didn’t have paper out there in the wood you know, I don’t know. JS: Yeah. RF: But probably by radio said, “we made contact this is what we see,” and somebody in the back- back at An Khê was making up the numbers. JS: Are there are other things you want to put in the story about time in the field before we kind of switch over to your…? �(1:16.40) RF: Yeah, I was just thinking about that and my birthday is November 5 and I got moved to Vietnam in October so shortly in the field my birthday comes along. My wife is always diligent about sending letters and I to her and I got a lot of mail, more than most. On November 5, on my birthday, on, she would send a package about every two weeks; I get a package on my birthday with birthday cake in it. A little bit miss shaped because it gets banged around, but we got to go on ambush and she sent this cake and a can of frosting just to put on it but we gotta go on ambush, oh gather around guys cause we’ve got to eat this cake in a hurry so we smeared this frosting on this cake with the bayonet and she had sent some forks and whacked this thing up and gobbled it down. It came on my birthday. JS: Wow. RF: Yeah really something and we went on an ambush. JS: Alright and kind of get in December now you’re coming back and now you’ve got a job basically- basically a headquarters clerk? RF: Yeah in the orderly room and the orderly room Sergeant Lewis was the first sergeant. They had a clerk for each company and then the adjutant, which was Captain Holbeeke and then myself, S1 clerk I was not, I was now in headquarters company and I was S1 clerk for the battalion. (1:18.22) JS: Now what does S1 clerk mean? RF: Okay S1, I didn’t know when I got the job. I didn’t dare ask the first sergeant I just, he said, “go see so-and-so.” So, I did, and I said, “hey I guess I’m your replacement.” He says, “oh,” he says, “I’m leaving in a week.” I said “okay, what is S1?” He says, “personnel records.” So, “oh �what’s that, I mean what’s that all about?” He says, “well I put in orders for promotion for different awards. I order forms that I use, I gotta order some of them here locally at An Khê the Division Headquarters and some of them I have to send back to Washington depending on it’s a DD Form or Department of Army form I don’t remember which I had to send where. But, oh and another thing he had to do, or I had to do is sympathy letters for, to next of kin for anybody killed in the battalion. The sympathy letter, yeah you had to, there was some things that you always had to say. It had to be typed and without errors, boy that’s hard. And a manual typewriter but at least I’m in a building now, but it was hard typing these things perfectly. I mean you know, my wife here to type would be lots better but I’m doing my best. And if you make a mistake you just start over, no copy machine, carbon paper, and you- you try to write like massive shrapnel wounds or gunshot wound. And quite often I would get a letter back, I didn’t sign it, but the adjutant signed it on the behalf of the battalion. We’d get a letter back saying that the people would like to know where, more detail about the wounds, and the accident because usually people were not allowed to have open casket. You know we didn’t have refrigeration. (1:20.41) JS: Yeah. RF: Obviously and I- I had written something like massive shrapnel wounds. What are you gonna say if a guy got hit by a rocket, you know we got pieces? It was hard, I know that, I can understand as a grandparent now that yeah you want to, and I didn’t always know where. I mean they wanted to know at what intersection, or at what stream, or what bridge. I didn’t know andand I didn’t make stuff up, but it was hard to respond. I always, that was almost as… harder than writing the initial letter because you tried to respond and still you weren’t able to be. Then there’s just some things you can’t, I couldn’t write. But that was a big part of the job. Also when �we took casualties my job was to go down to the, well this, after we left An Khê when we got up to Utah Beach and specifically at LZ Jane I still had the same job but now it’s not a building anymore it’s a tent and but part of my job was when at LZ Jane when they took casualties in the battalion I had to go to the first-aid station and take notes of the diagnosis and prognosis that the doctor saw. And jot some things down that could be a little bit helpful if the man died later. And that was just part of the job too, and then not no- no, not nice, not nice. JS: Okay alright now on the base itself at An Khê, I mean how long did you stay there before you moved? (1:22.28) RF: Okay I don’t know it says is my journal, I don’t think I know exactly when we move. We move from one place on the, on An Khê to another building and cramped us down but we still had a desk in the building and we slept in the back part of that building in Quonset huts.. At some point I- I, there, I might have a record of when they, we moved, our battalion moved from An Khê to Utah Beach just some beach on the gulf of Tonkin. North- north of De Nang, well not as far north this Huế but in that direction. And that was kind of nice I, first experience with, do you want to hear about this now? At Utah Beach I’m still doing the same job only now our bunkers are above ground cause it’s all sand, so they built sandbag bunkers with the cover. Pretty nice and I thought, you know I surely don’t get to shower and bathe enough and went and I’ll get in this water I grabbed a bar of soap, I’m gonna go take a bath. I found out that you soap doesn’t work in saltwater it just turns like a piece of rubber. That didn’t work so now I get out of the water and I covered with salt, this is almost worse than dirt but I learned you know, I was, I’m from West Michigan, big lake that’s nice, I could take a bath in Lake Michigan and it’d work out great but not there, not in the saltwater but I learned. We weren’t there very long, but Sergeant �Lewis could, he knew what was gonna happen and somehow, he found a way to get re, get orders to rotate out of Vietnam, go back to Germany where his wife lived. He was still in the army, but he was married to this German gal. He was E-7 so I mean we never saw him again. He and the next thing we knew we’re going to LZ Jane which is about straight west of what was Utah Beach. Things didn’t get better. (1:24.41) JS: Okay now is this all before the Tet Offensive began? RF: No- no Tet was way back at An Khê. JS: Okay you were still An Khê when Tet starts? RF: I was at An Khê at Tet Offensive. JS: Okay so talk about that, when that happens does anything affect your unit directly or? RF: It did a little bit. In our typical army, An Khê had a, it was a big base and it had the ring road and along the ring road where these guard towers and they barbed wire and lights and all this. But they had, I had to go up, all of us did, take turns going up not all the way to the perimeter but somewhat back from the perimeter in some makeshift shelter and we were supposed to be on alert that if somebody, something breached that perimeter we would be ready that- that affected it yeah. But not, we had some mortaring during the at night either early in the, early let’s say six/ seven o’clock in the morning or at nine/ ten o’clock at night, but again it was a big base and they, I think they were really going after the fuel depot and that was not near where I was. So, it didn’t- didn’t, wasn’t a problem. (1:26.04) JS: Okay so the start of the Tet Offensive doesn’t affect you particularly, it happens. RF: Yeah. �JS: Were you getting news or were you aware of stuff going on or were you just? RF: Oh yeah, we- we knew how serious it was because we had units that were up near Hué and they were taking casualties, so we knew what was going on. And we- we heard, see we were quite a ways North, Saigon we didn’t know what was going on in Saigon, that was the least of our worries. We didn’t really care, well we got our own problems, not gonna care about Westmoreland man I, worry about him, he’ll take care of himself. We’ll take care of our self, leave us alone, we’ll be okay. So, we were quite far north and but An Khê, we did not have a major attack at Camp Radcliffe yeah more during peapod. Peapod [?], oh that’s terrible, yeah that’s not so bad. JS: Okay alright and the division was in the process of moving north in part to provide more support for Khe Sanh and other things that were also going on during that period. RF: Yes, further north. JS: But- but the division is in the process of moving when the Tet Offensive begins at the end of January and then after that your battalion then makes that move up. RF: To, yeah to Utah Beach. JS: To Utah Beach and now then you go to LZ Jane. RF: Yeah. JS: And is that where you spent now an extended period of time? (1:27.30) RF: Yes- yes, I think maybe in my journal is I’ve- I’ve tried to nail down dates and I can’t recall them now, but I spent a long time at LZ Jane. It was a not real big, it was our brigade JS: Okay. �RF: And so, our battalion headquarters were there but the other battalions were also on this LZ. There was a large artillery brigade or whatever they call them, there’s a large gun right by us an 8-inch diameter job. They kept water in there, sloshed around to get this thing anchored in the mud and jump off the ground, kinda noisy. When he fired at night the whole roof of our bunker would go whoop like that just from the concussion and we all, and sometimes you hear a short round, bzzzz, oh boy, hope it makes it. My job was pretty much the same, getting more difficult because now I had this little field desk that collapses in a tent. Holes all through this tent just full of mortars or shrapnel holes and had this old Gestetner that I had to crank out paperwork on. Poor old typewriter with chips in it from shrapnel and the Gestetner. JS: What’s a Gestetner? RF: What, oh my, a Gestetner is this thing that, don't you remember, you don't remember these things… JS: Well… RF: Cranked and they had black ink on a drum, and you had a stencil that you had to cut and you laid that stencil on the drum and there was ink in this thing and you- and you could automatic. (1:29.17) JS: Generate multiple copies is sort of the… RF: Yes, that's what we did orders on and so that- that was my job. I had a Gestetner and if a company clerk needed something done I did it on the stencil. I was the only one that was cutting stencils on my typewriter and, but the old Gestetner I don't know what happened but it wouldn't feed ink and so I had to take a tube of ink put it on some toilet paper and rub it on the drum, and then lay the stencil on it and kind of press that in so that the ink could start coming up through the- the cuts on the stencil and crank it out and hope you had enough ink to get enough copies �that you needed I, this- this is making a lot of work you know. No, but you had a good time, you know I showed you the picture of the guy cutting hair there and we one we had a steak fry. Somebody I don't know who, but we all chipped in and he went to a Utah Beach area again on the Jeep and bought from the wet so we bought it, we bought it with MPC, military payment certificate because that's what the army used to try to keep US money out of, and they'd switch the series of MPC periodically and then all the old series was worthless and poor Vietnamese got stuck with, they really wanted regular currency, US currency but we, I didn't have any because you just got paid in MPC and that's what you had. But it was curious we bought it from the Vietnamese girls called them Coke girls. Yeah at LZ Jane life was just it was I could sleep in that bunker, you know and then I'll tell you about that storm for the record here, you saw the pictures but living in a bunker that was two, room for two cots and maybe about three feet additional in length so it's probably ten feet long and a cot. And I had a piece of plywood on the floor, and then the other cot, I lived there mostly by myself. And one night I woke up, and of course this bunker is built on kind of a hill, and I can hear water running and what in the world what a rain. Well the waters almost to the bottom of the cot, and so I got to get out of here. Well what was happening is water running down inside of this hill got between couple sandbags, just like a faucet running, just pouring in the bunker. So, I gotta get out of this bunker. Pick my rifle laying on the floor and ammo bag, pick those things up, slip my boots on they’re in the water, climb out of the bunker but by this time I'm deciding I’m gonna go to the chapel tent because they had a wooden floor in there and at least I can get out of this mud and dark, but I know where that tent is. Get in there and of course I can hear guys talking, the cooks are in there making coffee in these big kettles, they just put water and coffee grounds right in there and let it boil and that's but it's pretty good. Especially when you're cold and wet so I spent the night there I don't know we're �just talking. And next day is just everything is mud and I got to try and get this typewriter going again and the Gestetner and I get my desk in mud, and life is getting bad. And I- I don't well I gotta get a few things out of that bunker yet too, I had some shirts that I had sent to- to the little village outside of LZ Jane to get laundered and they had been all nicely folded they're laying on the floor down there so I go down to get it and the water is up to my groin in right as you get down in the hole. Whew, so, I can't live in there I build a hooch on top of the bunker two poncho or three ponchos I got, I don't know where I found these tents poles but I, hey everybody man for himself so I- I didn’t tear anybody else's hooch down but I found some tent poles and somesome ponchos so build a hooch. Even with one end, I had a litter, I don't know where I found the litter with an air mattress, I put that in there and that's where I slept. But by this time I'm only about six weeks from going home so I thought, I can’t, that I'll never get back in that bunker and by this time they're starting to- to prepare another base camp called Camp Evans as I recall and I never got there but so that's the timeframe. So, it must have been September, late September we had this storm and I make a place to live on top, at least sleep. And I can remember guys saying, “Faber if I was as short as you are, I would not sleep on that bunker.” I said, “if you were here as long as I've been here and if we get mortared, I guarantee you I hear that mortar leave the tube. I can be in the bunker before the mortar hits the ground, I guarantee it.” Because you're so in tune I knew when we were getting mortared before the mortars hit because you get the whooshwhoosh and so I knew what that was and I, I'm sure that it didn't happen. Then I got a replacement I think his last name was Lee, nice guy I don't know where he, he was like I was someday hauled him out of the field to take my job and when I was gonna go back. And another interesting thing I took a leave and went to Okinawa for a week I had, oh I had been to R&R, I had gone to Hawaii and met my wife for a week and that was in June. Where was I before I went �there, was I LZ Jane? Yeah I was at LZ Jane then already in June because I had a hopscotch all the way back to Cam Ranh Bay to go to Hawaii and back from Hawaii, go back to Cam Ranh Bay and hopscotch just, you just stand in, go to an airstrip and say where am I gonna go and I give me a plane or let me know when a planes going I'll get on, and that's how you traveled. Finally, a chopper, I got to be back to LZ Jane from Da Nang or something. Okay, this chopper’s going to there. Anyway, so last couple of weeks get really short and I decide some reason I can't believe I did this, I'll go to Okinawa for a week and that company clerk, of course we had been, I don't remember names of these guys but he says, “oh I won't even take you off the morning report, so as far as, you're not gonna, it's not gonna record this as leave, I just leave you on the morning report but you come back.” “Don't worry,” I said I'm so short I got to get back here to get go home and what otherwise I can't go home without orders, so he knew that. So, I hopscotch down to An Khê totally illegal get to the airstrip at An Khê there's three or four guys that are, we're all gonna go, now there’s three or four of us from other areas they're gonna go to An Khê. I don't know if they were going legally or not but we- we get from An Khê down to Cam Ranh Bay and we fly on a C-131, what they called weight available because they were flying jet engines and other equipment on that needed to be repaired to Okinawa. So, we get to Okinawa and I spend a week that was, eh that was okay, it wasn't Vietnam, so it was good. Don't remember much of it. (1:38.28) JS: Didn’t you need orders to be able to get on these flights or did you just walk up and. RF: I didn’t, I just said I got to go- to go to Okinawa, I didn't have orders that was the idea, you know I just was going, and I guess I looked like I was, know what I was doing. And I was what I'm- I'm looking like I was in the infantry I'm up from LZ Jane I'm doing… this guy's, you don't �want to mess with him too much because he says he's going to Okinawa you let him go. So, I went to Okinawa been, stayed there for about a week and so okay, time to go back to Vietnam. Go back to the airport to the airstrip there I don't remember, the air force base, I guess. Okay I gotta go to Vietnam I didn’t have any orders, well you got to wait till you’s got room on a plane, weight wise. It took a day or so I'm starting, now I’m starting to get nervous because I got to get back to Vietnam, get orders to leave, but I did, I finally, and oh I’d ride on these C-131s, there's no sound insulation it's just sheet metal and boy the noise be get off you for hours you can hardly hear anything. Get back to Vietnam, here I am at Cam Ranh Bay again I got to hopscotch again no orders just tell him I got to get here. Get back, finally get back to LZ Jane just a couple days before I get my orders to come home. (1:40.00) JS: Okay now during the time when you're- you’re up there, up- up north I mean your division is involved in a lot of different action, they're part of supporting the recapture of Huế and this kind of thing and then eventually the division or a large chunk of it goes out to Khe Sanh and- and then eventually into the A Shau Valley after that. Now do you stay on Jane the whole time? RF: I was. JS: And so, the battalion still has its rear area there and then they're going out but you're staying on the base? RF: The yeah, the brigade was operated a little like An Khê did originally and they had- they had these rifle companies that Alpha Company, Bravo, Charlie, Delta they're all out there, but we use choppers. You can't believe the chopper traffic and that's how people came and went, the chaplain go out on a chopper, it's just constantly choppers. But I was, that was the last place I �really was at LZ Jane and the brigade, the brigade was there I don't know about other brigades I think they must have been in other places but the 5th brigade or 5th Cav… JS: Yeah. RF: …was that level. The 5th Cav was there at LZ Jane and then the battalions, along with the battalions, and the- and the artillery unit. We were, must have been fairly close to the DMZ because as I recall these artillery guys said, “yeah, they could fire into North Vietnam with that evenings gun.” JS: Yeah, yeah there were, those were up actually so you're- you’re actually at that point you're north of way Huế. RF: Oh yeah. (1:41.49) JS: And between Huế and Quang Tri basically. RF: Yeah and Khe Sanh was a little bit more. JS: That’s inland. RF: Inland. Further west. JS: Yeah north and west yeah, but you weren't going out to those points? RF: No, no because my job was S1 you know I- I had my, I shouldn't say my hands full but that was a full-time job. Take between casualty letters and orders to go on R… that was my job assign guys to go on R&R and where there were gonna go and so in a way they'd like to treat me kind of nice. And but we had to teach the new guys, we had a lieutenant that showed up one day just green and he walked in there at ten. I'm sitting right near where the entrance is, and the other clerks are in there. I don't remember where Lieutenant Curl spent his time, the adjutant. This officer walks in green as grass. I'm right by the door and he says, “soldier I'm an officer, why �don't you call these guys to attention?” I says, “we don't do that here, we don't do it, and we don't salute anything lower than a major. This is just the way it is; this is Vietnam.” Our attitude’s what you're gonna do? Send me to Vietnam? You know this- this is different this is not the real world. This is- this is a different world, and they'd learned, these officers learned that you don'tdon't mess around with these enlisted guys because they're kind of ornery, they don't want to be here and just leave them alone. JS: Okay, now did you have a commanding officer that you reported to most of the time while you were at the S1? (1:43.31) RF: Well… JS: Who where you working with? RF: Lieutenant Curl by that time Holbeeke is long gone, Captain Holbeeke, and now we got Lieutenant Curl and he’s the adjutant general or adjutant whatever… JS: Yeah. RF: …of our battalion. He was my “supervisor” but he- he didn't bother me you know he, I guess he knew me attitude. And I'd been doing this longer than he had, this adjutant paperwork so I wasn't a, that was okay. His biggest problem was he was one night sleeping in his bunker and a rat bit his toe and he had to have rabies shots, boy not good. I didn't know rats would bite I just thought we had rats and almost every morning when it was, my rifle laying on the floor on that piece of plywood in the morning there I could see the rat tracks on the stock, that black plastic stock, the stock of an M16, rat tracks. And sometimes when I would be going, falling asleep and I can hear them running around the top of the bunker on those- those sandbags but I didn't worry about them, I thought eh they- they ain’t gonna- ain’t gonna hurt me. But once Lieutenant Curl �got bit, I found out that rabid, if rats- if rats have, are rabid they will bite to unprovoked because he was sleeping, dumb rat bit his big toe. So, he had to have shots. JS: Alright I'm gonna ask some kind of standard sort of Vietnam stereotype questions. RF: Yeah. (1:45.04) JS: One of the assumptions that people made is that there was a lot of drug use in Vietnam, did you see any of that? RF: Oh yeah marijuana I don't think, I don't know about other, I don't know anything about other drugs but yeah. And even at the at LZ Jane because if you walked around a little bit after. I didn't do it, I didn't touch it ever, but if I walked around a little bit in the evening you know nice evening walk around you could smell it coming out of some bunkers. It- it was around I don't, I didn't never touched it, never have. JS: Did guys in, out in the field use it at all? Or would they only use it in camp? RF: Not more than once. There's maybe once, we couldn't have it, in the field you couldn't put up with it and that's why they ended up back in the base camp and they would be helping the cook you know they- they would run errands. I mean you couldn't, they weren't gonna go home but they would get, we had outhouses at LZ Jane we did at An Khê too. We didn’t have a flush toilet so had these outhouses and the one close to our battalion, really close to the S1 tent had three holes in it and- and the backs behind it that was low that was- that was below the seats was open and they would have cut off 55-gallon drums about this deep and every day they would push a new one under there and so some of these guys that couldn't hack it in the field whether of pet, being petrified or- or smoking marijuana because we didn't put up with them in the field. Send back and do something with them. They would have to pull these things out and burn that. I don't �know if they used diesel fuel or kerosene, probably diesel fuel and burn that and put a clean one or an empty one back in. That's a job they had. JS: Yeah. RF: But they were happy but anyways… (1:47.12) JS: Yeah, they weren’t in the field. Alright so and then another issue is one of race relations, did you notice anything? RF: No in fact one of the company clerks, I think of Delta Company I think that's what D was in Delta, was a nice guy a black guy, very good worker did his job he was E-5. Nice guy, I wouldn't, these, the guys that just ended up cleaning out the John's, the outhouses, and the cooks; there was a mix of races. It wasn't a matter of what race you were to what you did it was because you couldn't do, be in the infantry, you couldn’t, well you couldn't be in the field and so that had but it had nothing to do with race. It had nothing to do with promotions, if you had spent enough time in grade and did your job you got promoted. Had nothing to do, I didn't even know what race some of these guys were by the time, you know I had in processed them when- when I talked to them about going on R&R about so-and-so on such-and-such. I didn't remember what race they were when it came to promotion time but I looked at how long they had been in and their company clerk said these guys have been in long enough and so I would put in for orders. I didn’t care, I didn’t think the army did. The S3 officer at LZ Jane was a black major, highestranking guy in the battalion but he was- he was intelligence officer. Nice guy didn’t… well of course he had the rank. JS: Yeah. RF: But that was, it wasn't that, he come in sit down and talk to us, you know, nice guy. �(1:49.17) JS: Now you were there when Martin Luther King was assassinated. RF: Yes, and Bobby Kennedy. JS: And but the King assassination have any ripple effects, or you hear anything about that? RF: I know that we were aware of it, we had stars and stripes of course when we- we knew of- of the, I'm sure I knew what things, well I learned from letters from home about Detroit and even in Grand Rapids. JS: Yep. RF: This was all going on, but I didn't worry about what was going on in Grand Rapids and Detroit. It was the least of my problems and I think we were too busy trying to keep our fanny down to- to create any racial, I didn't, I there might have been racial issues if you get to Saigon, and you know where life was different. I know it was Vietnam, but we were in an area where we had to depend on each other and I didn’t care if it, if he was black or Asian or whatever if, if he was on my side, he was a good guy. JS: Yeah. (1:50.28) RF: And I think they felt the same way about me of course I grew up on Black Hills we get back to that and I played on a, in the 50s when Jackie Robinson broke into the big league I was playing on a American Legion team 13- 14 year old’s where two of us were white and the rest of boys are black. Then at the same time our coach was Mr. James, he was black he invited two of us that had played in Little League that he felt were pretty good ball players to play on his American Legion team. We didn't call him coach, we didn't call him Doyle James, he was Mr. �James- Mr. James. I give my parents all the credit in the world, I had no idea that they- they said fine you play- play with Mr. James. We practiced at an old cinder field down on- on Rumsey and Godfrey. Terrible ball field, but it had a backstop. Hot! We'd practice and oh let's pool our money and somebody can go up the hill to the little grocery store and buy a bottle of pop, bring it back down, pull the cap off on a, on part of the chain-link fence burr on there and we shared it, passed it around. They, I didn't think of these ball players as black, I thought of them as ball, friends that played ball and I think they thought the same way about me. That's where I came from, so racial issue was not an issue for me in the army. I treated them as my friends, we’re in this together and I think I never felt like they looked at me differently I think it's because the way I treated them, I think. It- it- it's just never crossed my mind that we got racial issue here. I can't remember, I thought it was the other name of this Sergeant Delta Company clerk Fulton, Fuller? I don't remember, something like that, we hung out together you know is, we were friends. (1:52.41) JS: Sure. RF: Not close friends but we did this is, this was our life and we had it, we might as well share it. JS: At a place like LZ Jane, a relatively small base did you have any Vietnamese who would work on the base or they, ones living immediately outside? RF: No, no, they were, there was a little village outside and like I said I- I could get my shirts laundered and fatigues launder, you never got your own back, you just sent in some two shirts and you'd get two shirts. They were would, nothing- nothing personal about it but they did laundry. That was done, and I think that's what supported that village. I don't remember what we paid I'm sure I paid something, but we didn't have any Vietnamese on LZ Jane, we did it at- at An Khê, we had them they cleaned up, picked up trash I don't know what they did. I had nothing �really firsthand to do with them, but they were around, they weren't in the building, but they were out in the I don't know what they did, I know they picked up trash. JS: Yeah, at An Khê at least at some point while the CAV was there, there was also basically the house of prostitution on the villas immediately outside. RF: Yep that was part of An- part of An Khê ones like- like there was the main road from An Khê to Pleiku and then there was a little side, they didn’t call it a street but that was a red-light district that was there. JS: And then was there anything like that near Jane or was Jane too small? RF: Too small, the village there I don't- I don't- I don't I just pretty much stayed on that base I had no reason to go anywhere. JS: When you did the laundry did you just swap at the gate or something like that or through the wire or would you go into the village to do that. (1:54.40) RF: I- I didn't even do it, I just gave it probably to our supply guy and he'd have a whole bag of shirts and- and fatigue pants bring the whole business down and probably came back with some clean clothes and then if you turn, gave him two shirt- shirts you said, “hey I gave you two shirts.” “Okay here's two clean ones.” And I suppose we paid, but I never went into- into the village I- I could have I mean we had Jeeps sitting there. I could jump on a Jeep and go but I, why should I do that? This supply guy, that's his job. JS: Alright, okay so are there other particular incidents or memories that stand out for your time at Vietnam that you haven't brought into the story yet? RF: Well R&R I talked briefly about it, that was wonderful that was the Army did. My wife flew through military standby from Los Angeles to Honolulu so that was very inexpensive flight fair. �She had to pay regular tourist to- to Los Angeles, but it was a wonderful week. They, we were treated really nice to the- the community that we got a pocket, packet of coupons, we got a discount for rent a car, and a discount for various restaurants, and entertainment things. We went to a, the comedian that just got in big trouble, Bill Cosby, a Bill Cosby Show live there. Yeah that was a high point no question about it of my… (1:56.30) JS: Yeah, I'm sure. RF: And because I don't remember much about, I got pictures of Okinawa, but it was just to get out of Vietnam. I wanted to get out and then trying to get back in wasn't quite as easy as, I mean it was easy except I had to wait a day for, get a plane, otherwise it was easy, and nobody asked me questions. I just, said I had, just what I got to do. JS: Well I suppose someone saying he has to go to Vietnam wasn't gonna get a lot of argument. RF: No- no but leaving too I- I don't remember having any trouble I just went to the airstrip in An Khê because they were still flying out of An Khê at that, in June or no in October I guess I got somehow got to An Khê. I got to go to Cam Ranh Bay, okay this plane’s going to An Khê. It wasn't an airport it was an airstrip with a building, and you told the guy where you wanted to go. Okay he didn't care. (1:57.33) JS: Yep, not his job. Alright so now you, when do you get back to the states? When does your tour end? RF: That was in October of- of ‘67 of course. JS: Well ‘68 now, you went over in ’67, came back in ’68. �RF: Yeah, in ’68, October ’68. That was interesting of course then I had orders, so I- I didn't have to be so brazen I, cuz I always had paperwork. And processed, got down legally, down to Cam Ranh Bay again, to the out-processing center with my paperwork and they really had things organized there again. They- they treated you nice and okay your everything's in order maybe you got a… oh I got paid. I, they had been holding out a lot of money and they paid me cash. So, I had a pocket full of money and orders in certain your assigned such and such a flight that's such a such a time so be here and get on a bus and you go. It was on a Saturday before, no it was on a Saturday, we got off the ground at Cam Ranh Bay at 7:30 on a Saturday night. We got, that plane left the ground we clapped, stood up, clapped, we're all packed in again commercial flight but three seats on each side of a tiny little aisle. They had flight attendants that gave us a box of food. We made a, but it was, everybody was happy nobody was complaining but in cramped quarters. We stopped in Japan to refuel again, can't get off the plane these guys are, you can't trust them, I guess. And no, but I don't care, fill up, get the fuel in this thing and we're ready to go again nono muss no trouble. One stop in Japan, I thought we were gonna, I think we were led to believe, and I thought we were gonna have to stop in Alaska, but they didn't they went directly to Fort Lewis, Washington. We landed in Fort Lewis, Washington Saturday night course you got this dateline thing so you same day twice. (1:59.48) JS: Right. RF: Opposite going that way, so we landed Fort or McChord Air Force base on, we left on Saturday night 7:30 we landed there at 7 o'clock Saturday night, half hour before we left so, I know it's a 23 and a half hours, wouldn't stop for fuel Japan. We're getting treated nicer and nicer still in these grubby old clothes but bus us into Fort Lewis, walk into a processing center. First �thing they do is measure us for a dress Green's, gotta do more paperwork of course, they gotta tell us that we're still in the Army and how we supposed to behave and we've got a 30-day leave and my orders now are cut to go to Fort Polk. Oh yeah, this reminds me when you, before you left Vietnam a month or two beforehand you could fill out a slip to say where you'd like to be stationed if, because I came back with more than 90 or 100 days so I had to serve my time. JS: Yeah. RF: You could write down, so I put down Fort DeRussy, Hawaii was my first choice I liked that because I was in Hawaii it was a nice place. Second choice Fort Carson, Colorado never been there but I thought it sounds like it’d probably be nice. And Fort Dix, New Jersey cause it's out east and we’d probably get to see a little bit around Washington, D.C. and Philadelphia, that's cool I like history. Get my orders Fort Polk, Louisiana. Now still I'm not gonna complain I know all about Fort Polk but now my MOS, I'm an E-5 been an E-5 for more than, well I wasn't in the army a year and I had made E-5. Make rank like crazy in Vietnam and so I'm an E-5 and I'm I- I had my MOS change from Eleven Bravo to 71 Bravo because I thought if this clerk- clerk’s job doesn't work out I don't want to go back out in the field if I can help it. So, I changed my MOS but secondary MOS is still Eleven Bravo but primary is 71 Bravo clerk. (2:02.00) JS: Okay clerk. RF: Clerk Typist. So, anyway we're at Fort Lewis, Washington they treat us really nice do this paperwork of course I got orders they, and then they give me some money to travel from Fort Lewis to Fort Polk, but I got a 30-day leave. I don't have to report for 30 days so you're on your own. By that time the dress greens were all ready, patches on them, nice and spruced up, new shoes, new hat, everything’s really looking sharp. And you can stay for a steak dinner, I don't �want a steak dinner, I want to get out of here, I'm going home. I don't know how many guys stayed, we get out the door and there's a whole line of taxicabs and the first guy pulls up a little bit, the first five guys out the door get in that one, the next five get out the next one, they all know you're gonna go to the airport. Or maybe the guy said “we're going to the airport,” “yep that's where I want to go,” so you and then he probably said, “five bucks a head,” or whatever, I don't know what we all paid, five bucks or whatever the amount was. Brings us the Seattle Tacoma Airport and timing was perfect I go in I think well United I know about they fly into O'Hare pretty regularly. I went up to O'Hare counter the guy says… “I want to go to Chicago.” He says, “okay it'd be 94 buck’s military standby, but you got to run.” All I got is this satchel, he says, “gate such-and-such.” Took my money, gave me a ticket, he says, “go this way, turn this way, and it's gate such-and-such and they're ready to leave so you got to run.” That's okay pick up my satchel, ticket, run, and made it. So, we fly, I didn't have a chance to call home they didn’t know where I am for all, they don't know if I'm in Vietnam, they don't know if I'm dead or alive literally. Because going to Okinawa my wife got concerned, she didn’t get any mail, there was a chopper crash that neared Da Nang and the guys were on their way home so she's nervous. I didn't know anything about that I didn't have time to call from Seattle, run to get the airplaneplane, fly to Chicago, march up to the United counter, and by this time it's probably three in the morning or so that guessing. I wanted to go to Grand Rapids, “okay the next flight is like 7:00 or 7:30 in the morning.” “That's okay I can wait, how much?” He says, “34 bucks.” I said, “34 bucks? I want to go military standby isn’t there room?” He says, “I can't tell you.” Oh hmm, well probably there’s room but he's not gonna say I- I says, “can I buy a regular ticket?” “Yeah,” he says, “I can sell ya a not a first class but tourists.” (2:05.03) �JS: Yeah. RF: Yeah okay, coach 34 bucks. But now I can call, I get the ticket, call my wife’s, she was living with her parents while I was overseas I called that house, talk to my father-in-law and says “I'm in Chicago I got a ticket for Grand Rapids I'll be there such- such time.” My wife had; I didn't know unbeknownst to me she rented a mobile home from another; she was part of an Overseas Wives Club got to know these gals. All these guys in Vietnam their wives got together once or twice a month for dinner and to chat. Well some guy came back and he was going, had to go down to Fort Hood, Texas I guess and his wife, they had this mobile home in Cutlerville and my wife could rent it for a month because they were gonna be gone. Okay, so she did I didn't know about that, so I didn't know how to get ahold of her anyway, but I called her home talked to my father-in-law told him when I was gonna be there. Yeah everything's fine he let my wife know, my parents know, my parents let my siblings know. And this was Sunday morning, I get on that plane there's five of us. I could’ve rung that ticket agent’s neck charging me instead of 17 bucks 34. Now 34 isn't much today and it wasn't a whole lot then I had a pocket full of money because I didn't, I only collected thirty or thirty-five dollars a month in Vietnam. The rest of it they were banking for me. Heck what a- what a character, he knew there was plenty of room, the guy in Seattle charged me military standby without asking. I got a uniform on, wants to go to Chicago, what a difference. Oh man I gotta forget about it you know but you something you don't- don't forget like, yeah, he could have done better he coulda, “yeah there's plenty of room here 17 bucks,” he didn't. So, got- got to the Grand Rapids and everybody is there of course, except my mother and the story was she was, she wasn't feeling well, had cold or something. I think it was just too much emotional stress for so long, she would see me Sunday morning and she couldn't make it and that, I can understand that. Cause she was such a gracious woman and �quiet and loving, I'm sure that year was hard on her, as it was on me and she was just so thankful that her son made it home, but she didn't want to be at the airport. I- I’m, that's my story I'm thethe official story is she wasn't, she had a cold. She had a cold she could’ve, but anyway my dad was there, my brothers and their family and it was cool, yeah it was cool. That's why I started showing you that picture of that mobile home it said ‘welcome home Rog’ on it. That sign was made by one of my wife's uncles who was an artist and he quickly made that sign on Sunday morning and taped it up on that mobile home before we got there. JS: Alright so now this is still coming back and you're not done with the army yet. RF: No. I had yeah… (2:08.34) JS: You’re reacquainted and then it's, okay off to Fort Polk with you. How long did you have to serve now? RF: Well I came back in October, November 5 with my birthday that was in, I was on leave at the time and that also was election day and Richard Nixon was re-elected was… JS: Elected, first time. RF: First time, okay he was elected. I voted absentee from Vietnam I don't know, I sent it in, I assume I voted. But any way that was on my birthday but then middle of November I had orders I had to show up at Fort Polk at such- such and such an office. Which I didn’t know where it was, we got down and we went down together. Not knowing they didn't have married housing, but I drove on base to the guard post and I said who I was, I maybe I don't think he wanted to see my orders, there, don’t, wasn't worried about that stuff then. I said who I was and I have to report to a certain building I don't where it is, he gave me directions, I went in there, and the guy says, “we don't have any married housing, you can, you'll have to live off-base in Leesville or at De �Ridder,” two little towns near there. And he said, “if you go to Leesville go to the Chamber of Commerce.” It's upstairs over a shoe store or something, it was upstairs in an old building downtown- downtown Leesville. So, I did some paperwork I'm sure he said, “okay you're gonna work at this headquarters company for permanent party, be a clerk there.” Okay I don't know if I even went there, I went in, we went into Leesville tell ya, we went upstairs to the Chamber of Commerce, gal sitting behind the desk and said, “okay I'm here, I got in the army,” my wife is standing next to me. I says, “we have to, we told we got to rent some place, and you have some information, some listings.” She says, “yep.” She opened her dress- desk drawer there's a stack of three by five cards with a sign ‘white’ and on this stack ‘black.’ She hand me the white stack so we walk over to a little counter, we shuffle through them and find a few places that maybe might be interested. Write down notes, we couldn't take the cards, but we could write down some scratch paper some notes and addresses. And we headed out to this first place we visited, it was a trailer, that might be okay. Couldn't even get to the door it was sitting in a big mud puddle, didn't even get inside. Well head back we got another place closer in town. And the guy is setting out the sign in his front door, ‘for rent’ nice brick ranch house, wow that's where we want to go. Turn around, pull in the driveway talk to the guy “oh yeah,” he says, “it's the building behind the house there.” Went there, screen is hanging, screen door hanging on one hinge. He's with us, we get inside, the refrigerator door won't close, it's just one little shack of a room. Can't stay here, no thank you, back in the car. Went to the third place which was housing built by the military for officers during World War II, but they had been sold off to private party and they're now renting but of course they're renting primarily to GI’s, that’s okay. Lots of buildings, we found an apartment building available, or rent, on the end unit, a four-apartment building, old, furnished. �We rented it, so that's where we live for until May because I had to go from November now it is, middle of November to middle of May. What is that, six or seven months, whatever. JS: Okay and- and what was the actual job you were doing? (2:12.43) RF: Okay I- I, in my journal I write, I don't really remember. I know that I was, I can still see this orderly room; first sergeant had his desk right behind the little fence by the door where guys would come in and complain about this and that. I don't know what was in this corner, but over here was the company clerk, it was a guy from Pennsylvania who had sergeant stripes on, but he was an E-4 but just because he was a company clerk and these guys were supposed to listen to him, they made him sergeant stripes but he wasn't a sergeant. He sat here, I sat here, and there was a private office and that was for the- for the company clerk, or the company commander. I didn't even remember him, he must have been there, but I- I didn’t pay any attention to him. And I- I can remember like only a couple of things; one my- one my, the company clerk did most the work. I don't know what I did. The first sergeant… One thing I did is if there was a military funeral of a, somebody killed in Vietnam that from eastern Texas or Louisiana and had requested a military funeral, Fort Polk would provide the- the honor guard and that was always done then by an E-6 in charge and then permanent party and it was my job to assign these guys on a rotating basis to do a funeral detail as we called it. That’s right I did that, I just assign ‘em, let him know, “hey you got such a such a day you got to go to, I’ll say, Mississippi,” well not Mississippi, maybe yeah, cuz they went quite a ways sometimes. That was my job, and one time they were on their way back and again I'd made no care whether black or white guys, they were GI’s, that's the way that we wanted to treat each other. They're coming back on the bus they were gonna have to stay overnight and the NCO in charge walked in along with the- the, these other �guys. They’re all NCOs or maybe E-4 at the least, mostly E-5’s and plus the E-6. E-6 says, “okay we- we need some rooms.” The clerk in the motel says, “well you guys can stay, but he can't.” “Oh no we're back on the bus,” so they didn't- they didn't stay. Well good for that NCO that said, “no- no we're all stay or none of us stay, too bad for you, you’ll have no more money.” So, theythey just came back. But you know every, most of the guys there were serving out their required time and they ran these ranges on- on Tiger Ridge training new, more guys. We didn’t have the best attitude, we had a lot of trouble on Monday morning, two guys got arrested for drunk and disorderly in town, you know, and you try and get them out of jail. And troubles like that or fights, these guys are not adjusting well and they're getting in fights. I didn't show up for revelry because I figured I worked in the orderly room, I'm gonna get there, I can take care of the paper you know I'm here. Just not a good attitude. The other thing I remember we must have had us, had a change in command at some level and the sergeant major came in, talked to the first sergeant, and says, “I need some guy to carry the flag, and a flagbearer during this ceremony.” First sergeant says, I don't remember his name he sits, turns, he was an E-7 said to me, “Faber you're the guy.” Oh brother I don't know, and so the sergeant major gets me out there by his office, showing me where, when I got to hold the flag down, and when I gotta tip it up, and what close I have to wear, and make sure your shoes are shined, and all this stuff. I remember doing that. I played a lot of pool, we had a pool room in the back part of the orderly room, through some doors and a day room type of thing. I played a lot of pool, and it got to the point when these guys were getting close to getting discharged, they had to come in and do some paperwork and so the first sergeant is busy telling them they ought to reenlist, you know. You tell them to sign up, you know you're E-5 if you sign up there's a $10,000 bonus and they'll give you another stripe, you'll be E-6 instantly. He's telling them that and I’m “no, no, no, no” shaking my head �no. No don’t do it and most of them didn't, most of them were, but he noticed what I was doing and so one afternoon he said, “Faber, you come in in the morning, we, I guess I was supposed to be at 7:30 and I was, I'm a morning person, I was there on time. He says, “you come in in the morning, do your work, and you get out of here. I don't want to see you around. I don't care where you go, you get out of here.” So, often I was at home by 10 o'clock in the morning. One day, this is interesting too, I'm I- I like to golf now but then I didn't golf much but there was a golf course on Fort Polk. And I don't remember what it, couldn't have cost more than a buck or two to play golf, and rent some clubs, dragged them around, and I'm playing all by myself, and all of a sudden there's some guy just hitting the ball a ton. So, I walk off to the side of the fairway and say, “come on just go through,” you know, “you're doing so good.” And he catches up with me says, “no- no we can play together.” He's really good, I'm really bad but hey I don't care if he. I had civilian clothes I took with me I'm not in a uniform. I took some regular civilian clothes changed and then I go play golf. Couple of holes we played together and out comes the guy from the clubhouse on a golf cart and he says to this guy I'm golfing with, “the old man is ready for his lesson.” This guy puts his clubs on the golf cart gets on the golf cart with him and go takes off, so I finished playing golf and get back to the clubhouse, turn these rented clubs in, say, “okay, who is that guy? That was golfing and you came out and picked him up.” He says, that’s Tom Weiskopf!” “Oh.” “He's a professional golfer.” “Oh, no wonder he’s so good.” Yeah quite a coincidence you know, so Sunday, a month or two later, he- he was in basic training in National Guard basic training. Which they also had basic training at Fort Polk, but I was always part of Tiger Ridge. He was there for basic training probably February or so or March, I don't know I'm watching a television on Sunday afternoon, golf there's Tom Weiskopf they’re talking about Tom Weiskopf playing golf. I'll be darned, I know that guy it's interesting how funny �things happen. And I would time my trip, I would never want… leaving the base going back home when I first got there and had a work a whole day, I timed my trip so I wasn't driving past the main post flag at retreat because then you had to stop, stand outside your car, and salute. I didn't want to do that, I would go early or late, but I didn't want to do that. (2:20.40) JS: And while you were there did your wife get a job, or? RF: No, she couldn't. There were all kinds of army wife’s there, you know and then she became pregnant so then she wasn't feeling so good. But I don't think she tried; I don't think that the city folks liked us a whole lot. They- they wanted us there, but they didn't like us. Granted- granted a lot of GIs were troublemakers think just caused a problem for that little town. They [unintelligible]… even this town is so small my wife needed a pair of shoes, we had to drive to Alexandria. That was a 50-mile trip to buy a pair of shoes. They didn't have her sized shoes in town or at least that she wanted to buy; it was crazy. Same thing when we were in, right after we got married, she had been working in a bank. And what was Michigan National Bank way back then before- before we got married. We moved to Madison, couldn't get a job because I was draft eligible, nobody wanted, they- they knew what was going to happen more than likely. And there was enough people that now, and when we, when we got out she didn't go back to work. I gotta, when I got out of Fort Polk, got out of there on a Friday I was supposed to get out on Sunday, but they didn't process Saturday and Sunday, so I got out on Friday before. Walked out of that building with my pay and travel pay from Fort Polk up to Grand Rapids, Michigan so I'm getting plenty of cash and we're moving home. That was on a Friday, we hit Grand Rapids Sunday afternoon, it was Mother's Day. I had forgotten that, but when I worked through my journal and then wrote down things from my grandkids and kids, my wife says, “that was Mother's Day �when we got home.” Then she didn't go back to work. I had a, I had been working in Madison and I had every intention of going back and they were obligated to give me a job back and I wrote to the guy that I really connected with there and he still worked there, Palmer Hayes and asked him for some drawings because I said Palmer I think I would like to, in a letter, I'd like to see if I could get a job in Grand Rapids. I've been away for two years, my family is all there, my wife's family, see if I can get a job. I don’t know so don't say too much. So, he fixed me up with a set of drawings that I had done some of the drawings on. Get home and my brother-in-law says, “you know there's this one small firm guy, nice guy owns it, his name is Dave Post. Why don’t you talk to him?” So, I called him up he says, “yeah come in to see me, we'll go to lunch someday.” So, I went down, we went to lunch, he was a member of the Pen Club, we had a nice lunch. On the way back he says, “you got a job.” So, that was it, worked and my wife didn't go back to work until our kids were in middle school and high school and then she went back to work. (2:24.03) JS: Okay. RF: Yeah that's kind of my story. JS: Alright so to look back in the time you spent in the service, so how do you think that affected you or what did you take out of it? RF: Oh, it man, it affected me dramatically, especially my time in Vietnam because we knew no [unintelligible], wedidn't, I didn't to this day Jim we got a very nice house. I became registered afterwards, so I'm a registered architect and I had a good career. We have a nice house in Forest Hills. There's a downspout outside our bedroom wall at the corner of the house. If it's raining, I can hear water dripping down that downspout and I thank God for a clean, dry, warm place to �sleep. I- I, it's changed me, my baseline of what I need has went, really dropped because my wife will say, “you know we really ought to replace some carpet.” And she doesn't want em, hear mehear me say I said, “I think it's like brand-new.” But it's okay for me but I- I, we've been married for 51 years. If she says we got to replace a carpet, we replace the carpet but not because I've ever noticed, it- it's just so that- that has changed me and it's a good thing, I don't feel bad about that. Now I volunteer every Friday with Family Promise, the homeless shelter for families. I do that for a couple of reasons; I used to tutor and mentor young men, African American, black boys. Now I volunteer with Family Promise again because I got I- I've been blessed so much in my lifetime and the military service has been part of that. It’s had the impact on me that I have real empathy for homeless families. Family Promise is unique because they keep the dads and the older boys with their mother and the little- little kids. They have 27 families in the program, the families at this point spend only a month to two months, by that time they, Family Promise has helped them develop the resume, coached them on interviewing, found him a job, and found them affordable housing. Then they're offered a mentor or a coach, whatever they want to call it to work with them for the next year or whatever. They'll meet with you once a month, once a week, once- twice a month, once a month, help them make better decisions. These aren't bad people, some of them yeah I wonder about, but most of them are not bad people, but they made bad decisions only be… primarily because they didn't have the benefit of a family unit that didn't even tell them how to make decisions, they did, my parents showed this, showed us how. They you know, so I kind of caught it. I wasn't taught it, but I was caught it I saw my parents sacrifice so we could go to Christian school that was more important than having a different car or having a television. So, the, I- I attribute some of that to my parents; the upbringing I had and my faith which is still very, most important to me, and then my family. And I want to leave some legacy �to my children and grandchildren of what I think is important. So, at Christmastime I give all the grandkids $20 and tell them I would like you to contribute this to some organization, any organization you choose, just send me an email on where it went. So, I know you did something good with it. And I hope that that has, that they'll remember Grandpa Faber by that, now three of them are in college, one of them is transferring to Grand Valley. She wants to be a ultrasonographer or whatever they call it, she's- she went two years to Lee University and now she's going up to Grand Valley. I got, she's the oldest, then I got a grandson, or we do have a grandson who goes to Grove City College in Grove City, Pennsylvania he's on a full ride scholarship very bright. And another grandson goes to Judson University in Elgin, Illinois. They have an excellent architecture school and that's where he's going and he's doing better than he did in high school. Which was same thing for me, I just wasn't motivated and applied myself enough in high school. I did much better in college. All of that's okay, but I- I'm hoping that they sense, you know grandpa, there's some more important things to grandpa than, I want them to get an education, but I want them to use it. They have some God gifted- God gifted talent and I want them to develop it. Have another grandson who's gonna be a senior in high school in Chicago Christian next year, my daughter and her husband live there. She's a teacher in Christian middle school but Alex will graduate, he said always for years he wanted to go to the Air Force Academy, that’s fine Alex. We saw him this fall and I said… are they still taping all this? Because this is nothing to do with Vietnam, this is just me now talking. JS: This is- this is just a, we're moving toward closing out it's fine. (2:29.47) RF: This, anyway, saw Alex last fall, Grandparent’s Day at Chicago Christian High School. We’re eating lunch at this table, his other grandparents are sitting across, Alex is there, Alex’s �friend, Judy and I. And I said to Alex, “you go to the Air Force Academy” And he's, I had witnessed him in an honors calculus class, this kid is bright. He's doing it on his iPad, and or on his laptop and his phone these problems that teachers, and he's scoring in the top three in his class doing the problem twice. Anyway, bright kid I started, “getting major in engineering?” He says, “grandpa,” he says, “I think I'm being called to be a teacher and teach religion class in high schools.” “Good Alex,” it almost made me cry that, you know, I- I think they're learning more than an education, education is important I'm not minimizing it. It's very important but to me there's- there's some character that's more important, just as important. You can be a person of high character delivering coal; I saw that and it's just good work and he could have done more but he did the best he could. My mother couldn't finish school either, she could have been a librarian, very- very bright but didn't have that opportunity. They were born in 1908, 1906 lived through the Depression, anyway that's getting away off. (2:31.31) JS: Alright. RF: I’m- I gotta say about any reflections on this, I mentioned I think briefly that I think Vietnam was a mistake and that they did, we never understood what the Vietnamese wanted. They wanted to have all of us occupiers out of here we didn't get it. It, after watching the documentaries it really, I had read a book several years ago about Vietnam, the history or something I think it was produced PBS or NPR or something. It was very thick book I lent to my daughter, but in there it was the first time I heard that maybe the Gulf of Tonkin was based not on a fact and that troubled me. Then Robert McNamara on his deathbed fessed up. LBJ never did, Robert McNamara said it was, it was not the truth. Which gave a basis for the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution which gave the president the- the authority to build this thing up. And then I watched a documentary and I hear �these politicians say, “I- I know we can't, literally, I know we're not gonna win but I gotta get reelected.” And my blood boils to think how can you do that, how can you sleep at night. Now we have a memorial 58,000 names of young people, primarily young people. What do you want to say to their parents? Want to say to their siblings or to their spouse? How can you, how could, how would you do that? So now I've become not skeptical anymore, I'm cynical and I don't like that and I'm trying not to be angry about it, but when I think about it. (2:33.21) JS: Sure. RF: It- it, I- I am angry that, I expect more better from our leaders. I really do. JS: Yeah, I think that's a perfectly reasonable expectation. I'll tell you it makes for a very good story and you tell it well, so I just like to close this by thanking you for taking the time to share it today. RF: Well my pleasure, I did recall from that initial interview which I wasn't- wasn’t prepared for didn't but when I watched the videos that I did and went through that process and then I got youryour mailing, I thought I- I’ll share this, he can do what he wants. Maybe it's nothing but I put a lot of work into, took me a long time, a lot of thought, a lot of remembering. So, now my interview can be better too because I… JS: Right. RF: I recalled, and I got a different perspective on things. Yeah so, okay good. JS: Alright. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_FaberR1990V Title A name given to the resource Faber, Rojer (Interview transcript and video), 2016 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-05-29 Description An account of the resource Roger Faber was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan, on November 5, 1945 where he graduated high school in 1964. He studies architecture at Ferris State College and went to work in Wisconsin before he was drafted into the Army. Faber attended Basic Training at Fort Knox, Kentucky, and Advanced Infantry Training at Fort Polk, Louisiana. He was then deployed to An Khê with Bravo Company, 1st Cavalry Division. His platoon guarded bridges and conducted Ambush duties in the Highlands. For the remainder of his tour in Vietnam, Faber served as an S1 Clerk for the Headquarters Battalion in An Khê, Utah Beach, and LZ Jane. Afterwards, he was sent back to the U.S. to serve out the rest of his service at Fort Polk as a Headquarters Company clerk. When he finally left the service, Faber and his wife moved back to Grand Rapids where he resumed his architectual work. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Faber, Rojer Lee Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3778970e7b323fdddfbc7f2e7d3833bf.mp4 2c2678b17b05df2ab6ff655206cef89c https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a053a58f4ee5da672fa92f8d82df1e90.pdf e80711672394d88ff4762f5d9a1fd89a PDF Text Text Living With PFAS Interviewee: Laura Facciolo Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: July 21, 2021 DD: I’m Dani DeVasto and today, July 21st, 2021 I have the pleasure of chatting with Laura Facciolo. Hi Laura. LF: Hello. Good morning. DD: Can you tell me about where you’re from and where you currently live? LF: I’m living in Italy- in the northeast of Italy, where there is a region named Veneto. So Veneto is- we have Venice that is the main city for us. DD: And how long have you lived there? LF: Since I was born, so nearly 43 years. [chuckles] DD: Thank you. Laura, can you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS in your community? LF: Yes, so I started having some information regarding PFAS [per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances] in 2017 in the early spring, because there were people saying that some teenagers near to our province- I’m living in the province of Padua- and in the province of Vicenza there were tests done on teenagers. And these tests were blood tests in order to find out some unknown compounds that were having very difficult names, and these compounds were PFAS. We were very worried because the information that we were receiving was not official information, so where- this information was not coming from official ways but was coming from other people that were knowing- I don’t know- friends or others living in that area. And they were saying that these compounds were present in the aquaduct, and the same aqueduct was also serving us. So even if we were not immediately involved in this blood test we were obviously worried because we were in the identical situation in terms of aqueduct. And what we immediately started to think was about our kids because these preliminary tests were as I said, done on the teenagers. So we were obviously worried about our kids and what was done at school, because many of us are having kids that are going to school where they also had lunch and were in the last years. It was told to us and told to the children that the best possible water we drink is the- let’s say- major water, so the water that was coming from the aqueduct and this was also advertised a lot in order not to use plastic bottles and so on. So we immediately stopped using aqueduct water. Also to cook pasta that you know, as an Italian is present a lot in- yes, in our food and our- what we are cooking. But we were worried because the kids when they were at school- they were also having lunch 1 �there and everything was cooked with aqueduct water. So again we started writing to our managers in order to have some information because no doctor was available and no information, nothing—also our physicians were not informed at all. And when we also after 1 or 2 months- when we also started receiving the invitations in order to go and get these blood tests done, our physicians were not aware of anything. And so the first- I would say that- the first 3 to 4 months were passed in order- doing a lot of meetings with each other in order to gain information between citizens living in the free provinces that are impacted by this pollution. And we finally understood that there was- there isa company that is based in the Vicenza- near Vicenza. And this company named the Miteni- in this moment now is closed- was producing these compounds since- 40 years at least and was discharging everything in a small river that is in contact with the groundwater. And unfortunately what happened is that we had a so-called free lather of contamination, because we- of water contamination- because the groundwater was contaminated- fully contaminated- and the superficial water- that is rivers and more rivers- were contaminated and the aqueduct water was contaminated also because the aqueducts are taking water from the groundwater that it’s in. And just to give you an idea, the groundwater that is contaminated is containing the same water of the Garda Lake, that is the biggest lake that we have in Italy. DD: Wow. LF: And it is the second aquifer in terms of dimensions in Europe. Unfortunately this is completely contaminated by these compounds. So what happened is that we discovered after months that we were not aware of anything as citizens, but actually information about this contamination was available in 2013, because there was a study that was done in Europe I think. And it was down after the institutions had heard about the Ohio disaster, the New Bond disasterso they decided to test all the rivers in Europe, and this study lasted 2 years. And it’s called the PERFORCE [Perfluorinated Organic Compounds in the European Environment] study. And they found out the levels of PFAS in the rivers of all Europe. What happened is that they found out that Po river- that is the biggest river in Italy and is in the north- was having a level of contaminants that was 10 times bigger than the 2nd most contaminated European river, that is the Thames. DD: Wow. LF: And so they did another study in order to find out what was the- from where these compounds were arriving. So this study was done in Italy and only in Italy, obviously, in order to try to understand what was contaminating the Po River. And they finally understood that- there was the 99% of compounds coming from this company. Unfortunately this was not shared with the citizens, with the relation that was continuing to drink the aqueduct river, to use also to growthe groundwater in order to- for example- for their, yes, for vegetables or fruits that we’re having in the gardens. And so they decided that- we discovered later that they had decided to put some filters in the aquaduct in order to- lowering down the levels of the compounds, at more or less at 500 nanograms per liter, but this was- this level of 500 nanograms per liter was not really decided on the basis of safety or-. It was more or less what they were about to do with the filters. 2 �So after more or less the end of 2013, we were able to have a lower level, but again it was too high for us. And then- we were angry when we discovered that they did not inform us at all and that they simply started to do tests on people without informing the physicians that were also enabled to rate these cleaning sites. Obviously when these things happen, luckily you are not alone, so not all people are having- I don’t know- the strength most of the time to do something, but we were lucky because we found out after months other parents that were worried. So as I said, we started to meet and to speak and to start going to managers, to the president of the region, and going to Rome and going to Brussels in order to find out solutions. So, almost at the end of 2017, we had a confirmation and then we whistled so that a second- there were other filters- so a second kind of filters was applied to the aqueducts in order to reduce the level to a so called technical zero that is more or less 5 nanograms per liter because this is the threshold under which the- yes, the company providing the aqueduct water are arriving with their detecting techniques. That is again not zero for us, so even if now they are saying that things are not solved. Actually this situation is not solved at all. First of all because Meteni is closed. Metini is a company that was obviously in contact with the group that was in contact with the scammers. And so they were perfectly aware of what they were managing, because there was a lot of correspondence between all these companies and they- were perfectly knowing what they were causing. And they had also paid a company that- in order to start- let’s say- having an idea on the cost for remediation of all the plans. And at the end they discovered that the costs in order to remediate the soiled water was bigger than the company level. So the company was sold for 1 euro to another company, the so called ICG [Intermediate Capital Group] company that is based in Luxembourg for 1 euro. And they continued to do what they were doing and in the last years, you know, I told you that the PERFORCE study was done and then the other study in order to find out all the contaminants in the Po River was done. And the results were available not to the public, but to institutions in 2013. So in 2014 the institution provided the approval to this company to work on disposal waters coming from the Netherland Chem Wash in order to- let’s say- they were working on those discharge waters that were used to produce a new PFOS compound that’s named GenX. So they were working on them, on these waters in order to concentrate GenX and be able use, again, these compounds. And this approval was given in 2014, so it’s incredible because we- they were knowing, they were applying filters at that time we were not aware of anything, but they were doing this very costly- these very expensive things done in the aqueducts and they were a few months later getting approval to work on GenX. And again we discovered this later, because we only started in 2017 and the most- you say- what happened- the majority of people were saying to us we were only generating honor with no reason because the water was not safe. And during the official meetings with institutions they were telling us that the water was safe, that the pregnant women and the children may have drunk it without problems. But we have 2 studies done in this area- so the so-called red area, in terms of this triple level of contamination, that demonstrate that a lot of women here are having a lot of troubles during pregnancies. There are a lot of babies that are lost during pregnancies and babies that- so we have both problems in terms of during the pregnancies and then we are also having problems with the newborns that are having a low birth weight. 3 �So, for example, there are a lot of small gestational age newborns having mouth formations and so on. So., two studies are confirming this. Unfortunately, these studies are not linking- were done in- were comparing the situation here with the situation in another Venetal area that is not impacted by PFAS. But they did not do the PFAS tests on moms and newborns unfortunately. Also because they- unfortunately there is no- there is still and- there was and there is still a big problem because they are not willing to show the truth as it is and show the causal relationship with this. I would simply say if PFAS were not the responsible- are not responsible for what is happening to pregnant women and newborns, what is the cause of this? And this is also only 1 of the effects because we have other studies that were done in order to find out if there is a difference in terms of mortality in our area. And a study that was conducted here shows there are more than 1000 people that were- died - and let’s say it was considered as an axis of mortality, respect to other areas of Veneto region. So why this 1 in 1000 people died? And what is the reason that caused this axis of mortality if not PFAS? So, we are now discovering that not only water unfortunately is contaminated, we found out that the most contaminated people were the ones who were growing food in their gardens- vegetables and the fruits- or were also having- yes, animals. These people are having the highest levels of contamination in their lives. So there were studies conducted on the food- we were- there were 2 different studies done in 2015 and 2017. In order to have the results of the study done in 2017 we started asking to region immediately to share with us the results. What happened is that they were not providing us the results. So we were forced to have the help of a lawyer and to ask -to have a trip law- I don’t have the English translation for this. We needed to go to a higher level, and we won this case. And they provided us this results in May this year. And these are not very good results. And so we are now studying them with experts and enrolling experts in order to find out the risk that is associated with the results that we are seeing and that we find and we have received. On the other end we are also obviously involved in the trial against the company, because in the meantime there was a trial that was initiated against the managers that were managing the company that caused this disaster. We are involved as civil parties so we are only providing our help to the institute in order to find out the truth and in order to have these people so they get people paid for what was done. And obviously the main problem is the soil and the groundwater is still fully contaminated and so everything is now, lets say, flushing and going into the adriatic sea, so, near venice because they’re either is let's say receiving the water is nowis then going into the Adriatic sea for example they found out very high levels of PFAS in the fish. So if unfortunately we still know that there are today no satisfying technologies in order to destroy these compounds because they are very strong, the bond that is within carbon and fluoride is very strong and in order to be destroyed it needs temperatures that are higher than one thousand degrees centigrade. At least the old soil should be kept somewhere and waiting to have new technologies in the future in order to destroy them it seems for example that there are some bacteria that can do this kind of or some vegetables that can destroy this bond, but these are still experimental technologies. But, again keeping all this soil there is continuing to -it means that it is continuing to since this soil is in contact with the groundwater is continuing to contaminate the water, the water is then contaminating the rivers, the water of the rivers is then used in the in order to give water to the vegetables ETC. Something needs to be done and has not been done yet on this level and moreover we found out that for example all the filters that are used in order 4 �to to lower down the levels of PFAS in the aqueducts are filters that are made by GAC so they are then reutilized, lets say, reused. So the process, the technology that is used in order to be able to use again the compounds that are in the filters is to, lets say, eat them, the direct result of these is that the compounds that are lets say, absorbed into these filters. When they are coming to higher temperatures, they are simply passing into the air they are not so the bond between carbon and fluoride is not broken, because it needs very high temperature and immediate high temperature. Because if you are heating it very slowly, these filters, what happens is that the compounds simply is detached from the filter and then it goes into the air, so,we have another level of contamination is coming from the air because they are trying to do this to the filters that are used for the aqueducts, and so, everyday we are discovering new things what we are doing now is to so- , i'm not using aqueduct water anymore unless for doing shower and, i'm not- let's say, i'm not cultivating anything in my garden i'm not even giving this kind of water to my dog. DD: Mhm LF: I had a german shepherd in the past, at the age of nine, she died full of cancers and we were not aware why she was having these very terrible cancers everywhere, because she was relatively young and when I brought her to the - Yesterday where did I oh- to the doctor we say. DD: To the Vet? LF: Yes, to the vet he told me that there were a lot of dogs in the same situation and I immediately I remember perfectly what he told me, It is the water. And I was not aware at the moment, I discovered some months later what was happening so my dog now is drinking [chuckles] bottled water and to cook also I am cooking- cooking the pasta with bottled water. We are working a lot, too much I would say and doing a lot of meetings because now we are a very big group, we have a web page, we have a facebook page, we are dividing the things between each other on the basis of what- the time one can- yes give and also the attitude and also the job that we are doing, and, so for example I am working in the field of clinical trials and so at this moment we are working a lot to have new studies done and clinical studies done in our area in order to find out for example the relationships within PFAS and Covid-19 because there are studie that were done early this year in our region that show we have a higher mortality rate and we need to discover if this higher mortality was due to the fact that have a lower way to respond to this virus or because it’s we are having more people that are sick. On the other end we need to understand if the current vaccination program is working with us because the rest are just saying that PFAS contaminated people are not having the expected vaccine response and so then to keep the level in people that are supposed to process sometimes very low and so we are working also in order to find out to do this new study in order to, yes, see what is the best for us. We are trying to work with the institutions, but it's very difficult because 5 �as said, unfortunately they are linked to the very beginning of what happened because they are having big responsibilities for the fact of not informing us in time for years. So they are civil parties also in the trial against mitini but you know, we are not having the same willingness to have the truth really discovered and it's clear from some decisions for example, there is this screening that is done on the population, it was initially only done on people born from 2002 until 1951 so all other ages were not included. We went to do a fight in order to have at least some classes of children entered but only few of them actually did it so less than I would say 130, 120 children under than 2002 were able to do it so. For example, I have three children and only my elder daughter were able to do this when she was ten, now she is nearly twelve and the other two, were not tested, yet, even if this was a program obviously because we had covid pandemic in the meantime that blocked everything and so this is what we are doing the main struggle , I don't know if you will be having some time to visit our website, it is www.MammaNOPFAS.org and you will find a lot of information there about our story and what we are doing and the main struggle is for me, in this moment, is to find the time. The time needed to do everything we have a lot of journalists which are calling us, cryptographers, researchers, people that are willing to speak with us, to discuss the kind of solution, to do new studies, to propose things, and we need to speak with them and to speak with each other to decide what to do, and to inform other people, to keep the webpage open, to also to speak with other people in the world or all the way. In Europe in order to share information, for example we are in contact with the Netherlands people and the Swedish people that are impacted by PFAS contamination, so it's very useful when we are sharing information like this. And it may be a struggle this time but I am doing this- I started to do this mainly, for my kids in order to protect them and what is happening now is that I am using a lot of time instead of being with my kids I am being with the PFAS problem and so, yes it's not easy. DD: Yeah, I imagine not. You kind of started to answer this question already but what concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward from this point in time? LF: Well, I know from the studies that are published, so the scientific studies which are the main problems associated with the PFAS contamination and I also had problems during pregnancies, my first two kids were low birth weight, and no one was understanding why I was having this kind of problems during pregnancies. I was not a smoker, I was healthy, so it was strange, they were not having explanations, they were asking me why- if I- to find out this sort of familiarity for other- for this kind of situation and then the third pregnancy they suggested I take some drugs and they were helping and then I understood why, because I took aspirin, and I found out later that aspirin is able to mitigate the effects of PFAS settled in the, let's say at times at the level of the circulatory system. I have already had one of the effects and my kids also. Im not having, my son is having the problem of growth I don't know if this is still related to the fact that he was born very small so- or if there is a direct or an indirect effect of PFAS, I'm trying to involve other 6 �researchers in order to understand if other kids are having the same issue. And, obviously I am worried a lot for the future because these kinds of compounds are still there in their blood they are not having a lot of them in the blood compared to other people living in our area but it's enough to create damage. So, I'm trying to do my best in order to get them the best possible- the best possible, let’s say food, water and it's a struggle because when I go to the supermarket I always read everything [chuckles] in order to be sure that this was not cultivated here, and for example eggs, the most contaminated things and so I'm looking in order to find out eggs that are not coming from this area and vegetables and fruit and so on everything and the water as I said is bottled water, it bottles up in glasses. I hope that we will not have any issue- that it will be enough not to have other issues other than the ones that we have already in the past, but we have a lot of people here that are having problems and those are the class there near the area of the company of where there are a lot of women with breast cancer- a lot, and there is a big hospital that only treats breast cancer there and no one is having the question why. Why here so many women with this kind of cancer? Also here I have a friend, a lot of friends that are here and I am lucky because I am not from - so, I was not born here, I was born fifteen kilometers far from here but this area- that area is by another aqueduct so its safe at least, in terms of water. I was living here since 2007 and I discovered the problem ten years later, but people that were living here, and were born here and for example people that were using the groundwater also to drink it were having levels of this contamination had already had problems. So I'm worried obviously but I’m doing what I can in order to prevent anything else. DD: Which sounds like a lot, sounds like you’re doing a lot. LF: I hope. DD: Before we wrap up today, is there anything else you’d like to add that we haven’t touched on, or anything you’d like to go back to, or say more about? LF: Yes, what is strange to me is that when we started to understand the issue and I told you that I'm working on creating it, i'm used to searching for scientific documents or papers and so on I find out there were a lot of studies already done on this compound after the compound disaster in the middle aravali. What happened is that all these studies were not considered for us. So, what I mean is that it's said that we are a different kind of humans, because we have to demonstrate that this is also happening here. It's not enough to have that kind of disaster, here even if we are having higher levels in our blood of this compound we still need in order for the trial against mitini to demonstrate that this is causing something to us. Instead the problem is that having this compound in our blood after all the studies that have already been done demonstrating the risk that is associated in terms of a lot of diseases that are caused, is itself a legion. We should not demonstrate anything else we have already, a lot of studies that were already done here that were done all over the world. 7 �Why we cannot learn from past mistakes? Why we have to still demonstrate that they cause something to us, the fact itself of having them in the blood is the damage, is the big damage for us, because it is a big question mark on our future. We don't know what will happen but something will happen. This is the problem, and this something that will happen was done without anyone asking the consent so, it's like being in a big clinical trial without having signed a consent because someone decided for us that this water was safe without informing us, so they should have told us, okay, we discovered- at least when they discovered- we discovered this and that, so, the information that we have so far is coming from studies that were conducted in ohio because they were available and we are saying, we are not having a lot of information to tell you that it is safe or not but at least we are informing you then you can decide what to do. 8 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0022 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Facciolo, Laura Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-07-21 Title A name given to the resource Laura Facciolo, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Laura Facciolo has lived all her life in the Veneto region of Italy. In this interview, Laura discusses the contamination of Garda Lake, the second-largest aquifer in Europe, as well as other fresh water sources in Italy. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bbd21235ab50f1496f752f5654645bd8.mp4 acdc8f665abac9014075e055a7d9f51e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b4e4684e17e1f93c1973b7dbed67af45.pdf 032c2e1d8334e07eb72cd77b9f1cbe17 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Steven Faine (1:30:28) Background Information (00:30) • • • • • • • • • Born in Detroit, Michigan, on April 16th 1947. (00:31) He moved to Farmington Hills, Michigan when he was 10. (00:39) His father was a commercial artist and his mother was a stay at home mom. (00:55) Steven graduated from high school in 1965. (1:24) After high school, Steven attended Michigan State University. He was not the best student. (1:30) After 2 years of college he had a .69 GPA. He heard form the draft board which gave him the option of what branch to get into if he enlisted. He enlisted in September of 1967. (2:05) There were a few people who were enlisting in the Army as a result of being given the choice: army or prison. These people scared Steven. (3:51) There were quite a few black men who were enlisting in Detroit. (4:37) He was then sent by bus to Fort Knox, Kentucky. (5:00) Basic Training (5:10) • • • • • • • When the men stepped off the bus, discipline was immediately applied. (5:20) There was testing of soldiers the first several days to assess their aptitudes. (5:54) Before breakfast the men had to complete an obstacle course and run. (6:30) A blanket fight would happen if a man got mad at another. This was when a man was beat up with a towel over their head so they could not identify their attacker. (7:34) Most of the people where poorly educated and, he believes, mostly from Michigan. (8:34) The drill sergeants where fairly typical. (9:10) He knew very little about Vietnam or the war at this time. (10:00) Medical Training (10:05) • • • • • • After 8 weeks at Fort Knox, he was then sent to fort Sam Houston, Texas where he would go to learn to be a medic. (10:05) He was trained in parts of OCS school. (11:20) The trained lasted 8 weeks. The men were taught how to identify illnesses and first aid. Much information was applicable to a combat situation. (13:00) At this time the training was not geared toward Vietnam but rather just general toward combat. (14:02) In Sam Huston the men were allowed to go off base at night. (14:33) After his training he was sent to the program 91 Charlie at Letterman Hospital in San Francisco. The training was the equivalent of nursing school. (16:04) Service at Letterman Hospital (16:40) �• • • • • • • The men stayed in a barracks with very few men. The only responsibility the men had was to go to class at the hospital. (16:47) The training was excellent. Seven even partook in surgeries. (17:11) He was taught to identify all the various drugs. He was the first army class to ever receive a civilian certification upon graduation of his MOS. They received a national license to pass medications. (18:00) Unlike a nurse, an RNS did not have to be officer status. (18:49) Steven arrived in San Francisco in early 1969. He saw much of the city while there. (19:52) A new Letterman Hospital was constructed while Steven served there. He was required to help move patients from one hospital to another. (20:46) Steven did not believe that he would go to Vietnam and if he did he would serve in a hospital. (22:15) Service in Indianapolis (22:30) • • • • • • • • After 40 weeks in San Francisco Steven went to serve for 1 year in Indianapolis at the base hospital at Fort Benjamin Harrison. (22:32) Steven served as a Ward Master and served as a sort of hospital administrator. (22:52) He was given full responsibility over his patients. (23:38) Steven served over the ER. He was in charge of all the medics that worked in the ER. (24:00) Because Saturday was “GI party day” he would go visit his girlfriend in Ann Arbor. (25:05) After reporting to his captain, Steven received orders to go to Vietnam. (26:48) He didn’t meet anyone who had served in Vietnam until just before he was to venture there. (27:22) After soldiers were aware they were going to Vietnam they were hard to keep control over. This was due in part to the fact that there was no worse place that the military could have placed them in.(28:30) Service in Vietnam (28:50) • • • • • • • • • When he stepped off the plane he was taken aback by the heat. He arrived in Vietnam in May of 1970. (29:26) Steven was flown to Camp Evans and then was dropped off at the 1st battalion 506th infantry med station. (30:36) Because he thought he was supposed to be in a hospital he thought his assignment was a mistake. (31:30) The company had a dog. The dog was Steven’s best companion. (33:02) The men would often drive to a Marine base that had wine and would steal some. (34:22) At Camp Evans the area was very bare and looked like a typical combat zone area. (34:35) Steven spent much of his time being rotated to fire bases to assist medics and be sure that the colonel had enough medical aid. (35:53) In his first stay at Firebase Katherine he was told that 2 out of three medical personal who visit the base would die. 2 men that Steven was with were killed by a booby trapped fox hole. (36:41) The booby trap was believed to have been made by one of the Vietnamese men that were working at the base. The men were taken to Camp Evans for questioning. Steven was later told that these men were not questioned but simply thrown out of the helicopter. (38:12) �• • • • • • • • • • Steven administered vaccinations or serious wounds when units came to Camp Evans. (39:47) (39:47) If the men had a prescription, the medics often doubled the prescription because they knew the men would not take the pill often. (41:28) Fire Base Katharine was a bald mountain top. At one end was a gun placement and the other was a helipad. (43:07) Fire Base Katharine was often rocketed. (44:00) The base was a target but not as much as Ripcord. (45:36) When Vietnamese worked on a base it often increased the chance that it would be attacked. Steven had no contact with these civilians. They were seen to be dangerous by the servicemen. (47:09) He did do medcap assignments for the Vietnamese civilians. This is where medics went into villages and distributed vitamins and fixed wounds. (48:29) The civilians in the villages were a bit easier for servicemen to trust. (50:14) A helicopter had crashed on a firebase and rolled down the mountain. The pilot stayed with Steven for the night. He was paranoid and tried to shoot rats that were in the barracks. (52:10) The men were surrounded by the 8th Vietnam Regiment. The men were told to blow up bunkers as they left the barracks if overrun. (53:38) Life in Vietnam (55:20) • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Steven’s aid stationed was blown up 3 times. (55:28) While he was at Camp Evans, some puppies ate some rat poison. He then drove through the night to get to a vet tech to save them. They did survive. His previous dog companion died from eating rat poison. (56:00) He knew a lot about the drug situation. One of his medics was a drug addict and stole morphine. There were also a lot of racial issues. (57:33) When an order for a stand down came there was lots of drinking and drug use. (59:10) He understood that there were a lot of fights on Evans as opposed to Katharine because there were less people on Katherine than on Evans. (1:00:46) He did go to 1 USO show. He did also travel to see 1 Bob Hope USO show. (1:01:54) Steven hitchhiked too Eagle Beach to see a USO show. (1:03:15) Steven was promoted to E6 near the end of his service in Vietnam. (1:04:35) There was a lieutenant that the men saw often. Other than this the sighting of officers was rare. (1:05:00) Steven sent letters and cassette tapes in order to communicate to one another. (1:06:01) He had to go to a psychiatrist for 2 sessions after 9/11. It was recommended for all Vietnam Vets who had PTSD. (1:07:07) Mostly on his letters in tapes he was emphasizing that he was all right and safe. (1:08:17) Delta Company moved in to Steven’s area during Ripcord. He helped many casualties form the unit (at the end of the Ripcord operation in July). (1:09:26) One of the first men from Delta Company he had to serve had his face almost entirely shot off by a rocket attack. (1:11:23) He was very angry, particularly towards the officers, at Operation Ripcord. (1:12:15) He believes that a lot about Operation Ripcord was hidden. (1:13:24) Leaving Vietnam (1:14:14) �• • • • • • • • • He was very paranoid for his last week. He never left his bunker. (1:14:14) What happened in a relatively short time he realizes was stretched out over a very long period of time. (1:15:32) After Steven was told to leave he left everything at the base. He took maybe 2 uniforms. (1:17:41) His plane did land in Japan but he was not allowed to get off the aircraft. (1:18:29) When he got back in Seattle Washington at 3AM the men were given a steak dinner. The men were told that they didn’t have to do inactive reserves or serve at a fort because they were seen as too emotionally unstable to be wanted by a military employer. (1:19:00) He got back to the U.S. and was discharged on January 19th 1971. 5 days later he began classes at Eastern Michigan University. (1:20:18) He had begun working full time as a nurse in the burn unit at University of Michigan Hospital. (1:20:48) He was married soon after arriving in the U.S. he moved into a career of hospital administration. (1:21:38) He began going to the University of Michigan and took classes to be trained as a Hospital administrator. (1:22:13) Effects of Service (1:23:27) • • • • • He believes that the military forced him to mature. (1:23:49) He isn’t as afraid of things as he would have been if he hadn’t been in the military. (1:24:30) Steven did not think he had much negative reception form civilians when he came home. (1:26:00) Steven paid closer attention to the war and antiwar movement once returning home. He was damaged when he came back and was overly aggressive. He didn’t realize this at the time. (1:26:22) He accredits his wife’s attitude toward Steven to helping him get over his psychological problems from the war. (1:28:25) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context FaineS1438V Title A name given to the resource Faine, Steven (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Faine, Steven Description An account of the resource Steven Faine, born in Detroit in 1947, enlisted in the Army in 1967 to avoid being drafted and choose his specialization. He took basic training at Fort Knox and then went to Fort Sam Houston to train as a medic. From there, he got into a new program run at Letterman Hospital in San Francisco, where army medics received the equivalent of nursing school. After completing this program, he worked at the base hospital at Fort Benjamin Harrison in Indianapolis, and was sent to Vietnam in early 1970. Once there, he went to Camp Evans to join the 1st Battalion, 506th Regiment of the 101st Airborne Division. He worked at the battalion aid station, but also went out to several firebases at different times. During the first half of his tour, he had to deal with a fair number of casualties, especially toward the end of the Ripcord operation in July, when one of the companies in the battalion took heavy losses. He also observed the drug and racial problems in the rear areas. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-09-28 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/82148844c1240d8ee8b478f7a8073027.jpg 26bf9326eb5ea96f6503d24b149c413b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource GVSU Concert & Event Posters Subject The topic of the resource Posters Events Michigan Universities & colleges--Michigan Description An account of the resource Division of Student Services provides programs, services, and environments that enhance the personal, social, and intellectual growth of undergraduate and graduate students at the University. Events including concerts were managed by the office of Student Life. Posters for music, speakers, poetry readings and other campuswide events are included. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. Division of Student Services Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/106">Student Services concerts, events, and posters files, (GV028-06)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-07-17 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV028-06 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1963 – 1981 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV028-06_azteca Title A name given to the resource Azteca, May 12, 1973 Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Grand Valley State College Michigan Allendale (Mich.) Universities & colleges--Michigan Events Posters Description An account of the resource Azteca, May 12, 1973. (cancelled) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fair, David (Designer) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1973 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/106">Student Services concerts, events, and posters files, (GV028-06)</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/04b66d686d84ce37ddfbbfb56e1aa69d.mp4 a9e19a307e9ee5fe337868e9a8d45ac7 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/539302a9c0c96763e8c1e81eb1bc1287.pdf a65b2d468a68952c1245cafa50c022e9 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II Interviewee name: Carl Leo Fairfield Length of Interview: 36 minutes • Pre-Enlistment (00:27) o Childhood (00:56) ƒ Born on May 3rd, 1927 at Hackley Hospital in Muskegon, Michigan. (01:07) o Family (01:41) ƒ His father worked as a foundry worker making machine components while his mother was a homemaker. Also grew up with 10 siblings. (02:28) o Education (03:26) ƒ Attended Grammar School in Muskegon. (03:43) ƒ Discussed his various extracurricular activities and teachers in some depth. (05:29) ƒ Living through the Depression he relates how his father worked for the city digging up city piping and describes their tough conditions during that time. (06:33) ƒ He mentions that his mother canned and stored a lot of extra food in their cellar. (07:26) o His Job (08:20) ƒ While he attended high school, he worked as a clerk at an electronics store selling TVs [radios?]. (08:40) ƒ Mentions what branches of the service his 4 brothers joined when they were drafted. (09:02) ƒ The day Pearl Harbor was attacked, Fairfield mentions that he was at home tuning into the recent news on the radio. (09:44) The mentality of that day for everyone was one of preparation to get ready for war. (10:02) Enlistment/Basic Training (11:03) �o Why he joined (11:07) ƒ Fairfield was drafted into the U.S. Army and reported to Chicago, Illinois on August 17th, 1945 where he underwent a round of physical exams. (11:44) ƒ Background info. (12:16) • From there he went to Fort Sheridan, Illinois. (12:24) • Before starting basic training there, he went home for 18 days. (12:26) o Where he trained and what company he served with (13:00) ƒ Boarded a troop train to Fort Sheridan, Illinois from Muskegon, Michigan. (13:10) Describes his time aboard the train. (13:52) ƒ Describes his 1st impressions of Fort Sheridan and what life was like during basic training. (13:58) o Living conditions during basic training (14:19) ƒ A regular day consisted of waking up at 7am, breakfast, marching part of the day and doing daily calisthenics. (14:59) ƒ After basic training, he was on furlough for 14 days of which he spent on the speech. (15:09) ƒ Afterwards, he went to the West Coast by Washington and boarded a ship for the Philippines. (15:34) Active Duty (15:37) o The Philippines (15:40) ƒ By the time he had arrived in the Philippines the war was over. (16:07) ƒ Fairfield’s responsibilities included predicting the weather to determine when pilots should take off. (16:35) ƒ Discusses in some detail how they determined the weather back then while working at the weather station. (18:27) ƒ Was stationed in the Philippines for three months. From there he went to Okinawa. (18:35) �o Okinawa (18:36) ƒ While stationed here he was in charge of keeping tracking of 50 B-29s. (19:06) After this experience he went on to Japan. (19:10) o Japan (19:11) ƒ While he was stationed in Japan he mentions what souvenirs he picked up while there and left over from the war. (19:18) ƒ Also mentions that it was part of his job to round up all the sake and then would go ahead and sell it. (20:12) ƒ Fairfield briefly describes what his duties were during Japanese occupation. (20:47) ƒ • Mentions that the cities that had been bombed by the A-bomb were off-limits to American soldiers. (21:22) • While visiting Tokyo and Osaka he relates how the Japanese people acted and how Japanese women were responsible for much of the rebuilding of Japan. (21:43) Stayed in Japan for one year. (22:16) o Returning Home (22:24) ƒ Fairfield was discharged in February 1947. The day he was discharged he went to the bulletin board list of soldiers returning home and he was elated to learn he was one of them. (22:44) Left Toyoake by train to Tokyo where he went by ship back to the U.S. (23:45) ƒ Describes the return journey home briefly. (24:03) ƒ Took a plane from Washington to Chicago and upon arriving took a train from there to Muskegon. (25:30) Was met by his brother and sister. (25:52) ƒ Briefly relates in some detail some of the wartime experiences of his other brothers in Europe and the Pacific. (26:11) After the Service (29:06) • Adjusting to home (29:10) o Fairfield discusses his career pursuits in great depth. (29:55) �o Further discusses how the breakup with his girlfriend led to his mental breakdown and ultimately his journey eventually to the Grand Rapids Veteran’s Home which he has been there for 6 months. (31:33) o He wraps up his interview by reflecting on the types occupations his parents had held. (33:28) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context FairfieldC Title A name given to the resource Fairfield, Carl (Interview outline and video), 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fairfield, Carl Description An account of the resource Carl Fairfield grew up in Muskegon, MI, and was drafted into the army in 1945. He arrived in the Philippines after the war had ended, and then served on Okinawa and in Japan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006-08-14 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b800e9f7115a82a8683367f73b6e04b9.mp4 9b32c375788795637af81737c2390ea7 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/88cc6ccf6a89fe0d7590bcd147e95380.pdf 93b62ae096e3d237987cb6fb4b9b3600 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Operation Iraqi Freedom Dennis Falcon (1:18:23) Introduction – Pre-Enlistment (00:30)         Dennis was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin on January 19, 1981 He moved around and lived in Phoenix for the majority of his life Dennis attended high school in Muskegon, Michigan He lived with his Aunt and Uncle, his Uncle was a factory worker and his Aunt was a homemaker. Graduated high school on June 6, 1999. After high school he decided to join the Navy on June 9, 1999. (01:28) Dennis decided on the Navy because of the career and technical training that it offered, which would enable him to learn a skill he could use later on in life. He wanted to avoid an infantry/direct combat role. He had eight or nine from his graduating class that joined the military and he was influenced to join the Navy by his cousin who joined a year prior. Training (2:43)           He was sent to Recruit Training Command, in Great Lakes, Illinois. Upon arrival, they waited for enough people to create an entire division, which took about eleven days. This time was filled with busy work, and was a supply and admin time. The training transition is a three month process which teaches military tradition, heritage and lifestyle. (4:12) Punishments were dealt with on a physical and mental level and involved sleep depravation and ingraining the fact that you are the lowest person on the ladder of authority. They establish that they have complete control of your life. Dennis was in the Delayed Entry Program which is designed to help adapt and prepare for people waiting to graduate high school to military life. Although because he was going to school and working at McDonald’s he did not study too much before he went in. The physical aspect was not as tough as Dennis thought it would be, more mental like classes and dealing with stress. His group was called a naval ship and it was an all-male group consisting of about sixty men. (7:05) Adjusting to military life was hard at first, but once he figured out what the instructors wanted it made it easier. Later on he understood the logic behind the training, and respected the techniques that made men out of the young boys. The instructors were fair and treated everyone equally bad. �    The background of the men that were in his ship was very diverse and included people from all over the country. The age limit was 35, but most people were in their twenties, some of which had some college. (08:53) After first three months of basic training, each man is sent to their specific technical school. Jobs are chosen by contract when you first enlist. The ASVAB helps determine what job you are qualified for and the Navy would also tell you what they needed. Dennis chose to be a diesel mechanic. (11:12) Technical School (11:17)      Located at Great Lakes, the technical school was an additional three months of training. The atmosphere is much more relaxed in tech school. There he learned the fundamentals of diesel engines and the different components of what they controlled on the ship such as the anchors and the direction of the ship. Swim training was also required, which was done in Lake Michigan. (13:19) Dennis graduated from tech school on December 7, 1999. He was given a two week leave before he received orders for his duty assignment. USS Ashland (13:56)                The ship was a LSD Class Amphibious Assault Ship. The ship’s main mission is to transport Marines for battle. The ship would haul both troops and vehicles and equipment. There were often more Marines onboard than Navy sailors. When Dennis joined the ship, it was located in Little Creek, Virginia. (15:22) December 21, was when he first arrived, being around Christmas time, the ship stayed in port for about six months. This time was for learning the ship, his work station and getting to know his fellow crewmembers. Being the junior member of his team, Dennis was tasked with the jobs that the senior men did not want to do. His first sea time was on a trip to Baltimore. This trip was designed to break-in the several new members of the crew. (17:12) The crew was granted shore leave, which many men did. They were able to rent a car, travel and stay out in town. The civilian populace was very receptive and proud to have the sailors around and for the most part appreciative of their presence. Little Creek is located just outside of Norfolk, Virginia, which is the largest naval base in the United States. (18:42) His overall experience with the locals was pleasant and he did not have any problems. Dennis did not have a car, and was forced to walk everywhere. The MWR, the military recreation facility tried to keep people busy with activities. To break the monotony of base life, going to sea was often a welcomed experience. (20:42) �      The first time they left port and left the United States was to go to the Virgin Islands in February or March. St. Thomas, St. John and St. Croix were visited. The locals were amazing. The trip was a training exercise, such as fire-fighting, terrorist attacks, and the crew consisted of mainly naval personnel and not Marines. (22:25) Sea sickness was an issue for many people on ship, but Dennis never had a problem. His duty location was under the deck in the engine room. Some cases of sea sickness were extreme. And each man is issued a sea sickness pill that he is required to take 24 hours prior to going to sea. (23:53) The ship made several smaller sea trips such as to Puerto Rico as a preparation for the large cruise scheduled for Europe that left in early 2000. European Tour (24:23)                 The trip took about 2 weeks; the ship was built for torque not speed. The ship had some Marines on board, but mostly the navy crew. His first port of call was Palma, Spain, an island off the coast of the mainland. The ship was broken down into duty sections, 3 sections. One third of the ship had to be on duty at a time. Once completed, they were allowed to go to shore and see the city. Dennis was on restriction because he had gotten into some trouble and was not able to go ashore the first day. (25:52) They would stay in port for a few days to a week. Some of the other ships with them were in France, the Mediterranean and down to the Horn of Africa. During this time they qualified on the deck guns and other training. The cruise lasted a little over six months. Ports of call for this cruise included: Palma, Almeria, and Rota in Spain, Livorno and Trieste in Italy, Rijeka, Croatia, Greece and the Island of Crete. (27:40) They had plenty of opportunities to go on tours throughout the regions they visited and he was able to see the Leaning Tower, the Coliseum and tried local cuisine and draft beers. Some towns were more hospitable than others. Because of the Geneva Convention, the sailors were required to follow all the laws and rules of that country. (29:04) In Spain, he was welcomed there, and since he speaks Spanish he was able to effectively communicate with the locals. In Croatia, the reception was a little less friendly and they did not like the American presence. Greece was a very nice place, rich with history and beautiful beaches and scenery. At first, he did not appreciate the history he was seeing, but after going to his first museum there, he found a new appreciation for history and the artifacts he was seeing. (30:55) So far, Dennis thought that he was still a little immature but was adjusting well to military life. Communication at sea was not that dependable. Internet was not readily accessible and the phone centers were only open from time to time. During the attack of the USS Cole in late 2000, Dennis was in the Atlantic, towards the Mediterranean. Around that time, they were approached late at night by a small vessel that was not responding to the ship and they followed the rules of engagement and manned their battle stations. Nothing ended up happening. October 12, the USS Cole was attacked. (33:17) � Dennis served with a man who was a survivor on the Cole and he described the attack. A small ship came with Muslims on board, and as it approached, three of them saluted, the ship was wired with explosives. This was done off the coast of Yemen. Seventeen sailors were killed in this attack. Due to the crew's training, the ship was saved and is now back in commission. (34:23) Back in the States (34:27)                The first cruise came back to the United States around December. Each month, you earn leave days, which Dennis had accumulated. Around Christmas time, Dennis went home for about 2 weeks. He stayed with his mother in Grand Rapids, but visited his friends in Muskegon. The time with his friends made him realize that he had matured much more than his peers had. The incident on the USS Cole helped him see the role the Navy plays around the world and for the United States. After putting so many hours on their diesel engines, they require replacement. While in dry dock, they replaced components of the engine and other mechanical items that needed maintenance. (36:34) The engines were about the size of a Volkswagen and had to be craned out of the ship. Navy crewman and civilian contractors were used for this. The ship was laid in around 1989. So it was a relatively new ship. They remained in port for awhile, but when September 11th happened the process was quickened. On September 11th, Dennis was in the Portsmouth, Virginia shipyards that day. He was in the engine room, and he was getting something to eat, when he saw the planes hit on CNN. He thought it was a movie. Many people were crying and several people were calling home to New York. (39:31) The shipyard was put on lockdown and they were required to stay aboard. He had met a beautiful girl and supposed to go out that night, but had to cancel. The crew worked very diligently to finish the ship as soon as possible. During this time, he learned more about how the ship worked and was configured, such as the steam process, the distillation of salt water to fresh water and other skills that he did not know. (41:50) These processes were learned just because he wanted to know as much as he could. Six to eight weeks later they went directly to the Middle East Middle East Tour (42:26)    On their way to the Middle East they sailed east through the Straits of Gibraltar, into the Suez Canal into the Red Sea and came into the Persian Gulf. Dennis was able to stay up on deck as they passed through the canal. The canal had many guards as they passed through Egypt. (44:00) The water temperature and current were very different in the Persian Gulf, which made their equipment operate differently. �         After dropping off the Marines which totaled about 900, they ran tests on their fuel supplies. There were several conflicts between the Navy and the Marine Corps at this time. Sharing the facilities such as the workout room was difficult. (46:41) Once the Marine force was deployed, the ship headed for Bahrain. The base in Bahrain was about as much fun as it was on ship. Dennis re-enlisted in March 2002, and was sent to Japan. (48:24) He was flown home commercially to Virginia, rented a car and was given one month leave before shipping out to Japan. While still in Bahrain, Dennis had to stay at the Al Shafira Hotel, which was expensive, approximately $120 a night. Dennis liked to watch TV there and found it funny to watch McDonald’s commercials and witnessed western globalization at work. He was deployed for six to eight months during this time. Re-enlistment/ New Duty Station (50:52)                  When he re-enlisted he was an E-4, Engineman 3rd Class. He applied for jobs around the Navy. He re-enlisted to go to Japan for three and a half years. This duty station was completely different than any place he had previously been. His new ship was a Cruiser which was armed with guided missiles. He was assigned to the Pacific 7th Fleet, and the Air Craft Carrier his ship was protecting was the USS Kitty Hawk. His Cruiser was the USS Chancellorsville CG 62. (52:41) When he arrived, he had a sponsor that came and picked him up at the airport and brought him to the base. With the new duty station, Dennis was now an experienced sailor and had rank to back his experience. There was some rivalry but he bonded with his new crew. His new ship was gas turbine powered, which was much faster than his old ship.(54:42) His new assignment was to control the auxiliaries such as the transformation from salt water to fresh water, anchor drive, steering gears and fuel purification. He still acted as an engineer, but his duties were easier. Dennis was able to surpass his fellow sailors by taking the time to learn more about his job than was necessary, such as he did while on the Ashland. He also became certified to land helicopters (56:18); the training took six months and was taught in San Diego. He had family in San Diego that he was also able to visit while there. Dennis became the supervisor for his work place (58:05) Helicopters were flying in and out constantly, delivering parts, mail, etc... Dennis successfully landed over 800 helicopters. He was awarded four Navy Achievement Medals, Junior Sailor of the Quarter in 2004, and the Junior Sailor of the Year 2004. When deployed, he went to Singapore, it is considered a ‘fine’ country, because you get fines for many things such as spitting gum, spitting on the ground, which could result in caning(1:00:00). During this time, he was able to work with foreign navies such as the Australians. �        He also went to Hong Kong, Darwin, Australia, Thailand, South Korea and several others. His ship responded to conflicts in Taiwan and in Malaysia which has high populations of Muslims and have Al-Qaeda ties. The threat conditions warranted how late and what you could do on shore leave.(1:03:10) Dennis was able to see many different exotic animals both on land and sea. The ships MWR organized many activities such as jungle treks, elephant rides, and he was scared by signs that warned about king cobras while mountain climbing in Brunei. The snake charming and alligator wrestling fascinated him. He remained with the Chancellorsville until 2005. (1:04:48) Around this time, Dennis was diagnosed with cancer and was sent back to the states and worked as a recruiter’s assistant at the Naval Recruiting District Michigan. The remaining time he spent in the Navy was there, while he was dealing with his cancer treatment. Today, he is recovering well from his treatment. Recruiters Assistance (1:06:00)      He was sent to recruiter’s school and had to learn how to ‘sell war to kids’. Dennis saw many different kinds of kids that wanted to join the Navy. The requirement was for a high school diploma, they no longer accept GED’s. (1:08:04) As a recruiter, he signed up around twenty his first year. He offered many different programs and helped candidates choose a job based on their physical and mental testing scores, as well as their ASVB score. (1:10:24)  Dennis traveled all over the region; he went to Ludington, Grand Haven, Muskegon and Holland.  Because of his condition, the Navy retired him.  If cancer had not been an issue, Dennis would still be in the Navy. Looking Back to Japan (1:10:00)  Looking back, he enjoyed VBSS, which is manning other vessels that may have been smuggling drugs or other contraband into the United States. He did this while serving aboard the Chancellorsville. (1:12:43)  They were working with the Japanese Navy during this time.  Ships are restricted as far as there energy and fuel and Japan would not allow any nuclear powered ships in their area, until conflicts with North Korea changed their minds. (1:14:32) Civilian Life (1:16:07)     He went from working 16-18 hour days, to not being able to drive a car. Dennis didn’t feel that he fit into society and really missed the Navy. Since then, he has tried to blend in and go to community college. Now, he is studying International Relations with a minor in History at Grand Valley State University. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context FalconD1478V Title A name given to the resource Falcon, Dennis (Interview outline and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Falcon, Dennis Description An account of the resource Dennis was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin on January 19, 1981. After graduating high school, he joined the Navy and trained to be a diesel mechanic. He was stationed on the USS Ashland for his first tour. He traveled to Europe and went to Spain, Italy, Greece and Croatia. After September 11th, he was sent to the Middle East where he later re-enlisted and was sent to Japan and stationed on the USS Chancellorsville as a part of the Pacific 7th Fleet. While there, he was able to go to South Korea, Thailand, Brunei, Singapore, Hong Kong and Australia. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Navy Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-02-01 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/72e11985306e23670d9f046d6b665757.jpg 50003bf6ab3a50f8f3bbb35a23121e7b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Michigan Novels Collection. PS3505.O5593 W54 1904 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0014 Title A name given to the resource Wilby's Dan Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Falls, C.B. (Charles Buckles) (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of Wilby's Dan, by William Wallace Cook, illustrated by C.B. Falls, published by Burr Printing House, 1904. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1904 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8cd998f3bce40bcbeab513a754ac138e.jpg 26b7bb820e13ddab2fa2e548a5ad0f8f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. PS1072 .B45 1904 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0435 Title A name given to the resource The Belle of Bowling Green Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Falls, C.B. (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of The Belle of Bowling Green, by Amelia E. Barr, published by Dodd, Mead, and Company, 1904. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1904 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1c0d20d90c550321982644106c40a600.mp3 f2a4c6b1927150720a3ba7ca42043f4d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/05a4056da028ff471199cca9764d6461.pdf 8ce9cc0f24c795791c811df7a2491f8a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Rocco J. Farano (00:41:00) Brief Introduction • Rocco was born in Troy, NY near Albany. He was enlisted in the military at age 18. (1:05) • Rocco was a student prior to his military career. (1:18) • Started out military career in infantry, then moved to Air Force later on. (1:25) • Was a part of the 36th Division, 3rd Battalion, [regiment not identified]. (1:32) • Spent much of his time on active duty in combat. (1:47) Combat experience in Italy, other remarks • His first combat began by marching on Rome. He was wounded in the left arm on the way to Rome in Vitrelli. The wound was not serious, so the medics briefly patched him and he continued on the mission. (2:15-2:44) • Marched through Rome on June 6th. (3:03) • Wounded more seriously later on. While in France he was wounded in the face. This was his second time wounded. He remarks that France was particularly active. (3:25) • Received the Purple Heart, and the Bronze Star. (4:04) • While in Italy, he was made a scout because he could understand Italian. This role in reconnaissance would continue later in France. (4:22-5:06) Reconnaissance mission in Italy • Sent on a reconnaissance mission to find the enemy troops. He was accompanied by five other troops, totaling six people as half a squad. Each person in the squad was equipped with hand held automatic weapons. One person in the squad had a light machine gun which could be disassembled. The weapon had to be carried by two people even disassembled. The other five men had regular M-1 rifles, which held several rounds, but not as many as the light machine gun. He also notes that one man in the team was responsible for all the ammunition. (5:166:51) • As part of the mission, his team had to cross a wide open field. Crossing such terrain was dangerous as it provided little cover. On one side of the field was a hedge grove running a length of about two hundred yards. There were a few openings in the hedges, which two enemy snipers used as cover. (6:59-7:41) • While in the field, his team noticed smoke and began heading toward it. (7:28) • His friend Milton Hill, a schoolteacher from New England, was killed by enemy snipers. (7:55) • His team discovered that the source of the smoke was a burning barn. (8:27) • Behind the barn was a French truck loaded with German troops. The Germans were notorious for re-using captured equipment. (8:33-8:42) • His team decided not to attack the Germans directly, as they were vastly outnumbered. Instead they fired on them with the light machine gun, while one of the team ordered the Germans to surrender in German. (9:10-9:33) • He notes that some of the Germans were trying to sleep off a night of drinking schnapps, which contributed to their success. (9:43) • His team captured nearly twenty Germans. (10:03) • One member of his team was sent back to the base, inform the base and ask for a truck to capture more Germans. These prisoners were captured without casualties as an entire platoon �• • • • was used. (10:22) People in local houses knew they were Americans, and helped hide his team. This turned out to be an unnecessary maneuver as the situation had been resolved by the other platoon. Headquarters sent more men to retrieve his team. (11:50) The success of this mission earned him a Bronze Star. The small number of casualties, the captured enemy troops, and the success of an important mission contributed to his earning the award. (12:36) The troops were often afraid, small arms fire, rifles and machine guns all contributed to this fear. The most feared enemy weapon was the small artillery, or mortars. He also notes that ADA (?) were especially feared as well. (14:00-15:00) After the war was nearly over, he was put in the Air Corps as a military policeman. (15:48) Discussion of his facial flesh wound: • • • • • • After being wounded, he was went to the AID station for a few hours. His wound was stitched, and a patch was applied as well. He notes he was very lucky not to have received a more severe wound, and that he still has scars. He praises the army doctors for good work. (16:0016:24) He stayed in the hospital until his wound recovered. Once he recovered from his wound the war was mostly over, and his superiors realized he was overqualified for his position in the infantry so he was transferred to the Air Corps. (17:37) He notes he thought this conclusion ridiculous. (17:54) He was wounded in the face during a fire fight in enemy territory. Both sides were equipped with machine guns. The American forces were dug into foxholes. He shared his foxhole with one other man. It was common to shift from one foxhole to another while patrolling the area. (18:08-18:57) The enemy knew he was in the area, which was in a Belgian town. He was trapped by enemy fire, and ran to his foxhole. In his haste to get in the foxhole he forgot his weapon (Browning Automatic Rifle, or “BAR”), and was shot in the face while retrieving it. His partner used his med kit, to patch his wound to the best of his ability. (14:12-20:06) Next he went to the AID station as previously mentioned. He regarded his stay there as something of a vacation due to the hot meals and being able to use a proper bed. (20:35-20:50) Post-Combat • His favorite place to be stationed was Birmingham, AL. He was also partial to Belgium, especially the French portions. (21:15) • He did not recall anyone treating him badly after returning to the States. (22:29) • Some of the Germans had American-made weapons. (23:10) Interaction with German POWs • A German officer in a POW camp in Italy had an American weapon, a .45, which he confiscated. He realized later it was actually a .38, not a .45. He still has the gun. The German officer was one of the few Germans in the camp. (23:42) • He notes he did not liberate any concentration camps, but he did put German soldiers into prisoner of war camps. (24:40) • One of the German prisoner was skilled with leather crafting. Rocco gave him four packs of cigarettes to make him a holster for the gun he took earlier. He still has the holster as well. (24:40) �• After the war, German prisoners were released to their homes. (25:49) Drafted, and dates served • Explains that he was drafted. He tried to join the Air Corps, but was unable to at the time. (26:00) • Doesn't remember how he spent his off-time while in the force. He doesn't remember having any off-time other than his time in the hospital, for which he was very thankful. (26:47-27:18) • He made a few friends while in the force, most of which he has lost through the years. (27:40) • Entered the force in 1943, left in 1946. (27:40) More on his life after the War • After finishing his tour, he went to aviation school. He notes he was able to do so because of the GI Bill of Rights. He was at the Academy of Aeronautics for two years. Eventually he gained experience as a mechanic. (28:10) • He also got married, and got a job working for his father-in-law. His experience as a mechanic gave him good references for the position, aside from the fact that he needed work and his father-in-law needed help. He worked forty-five hours a week, and also made a six percent commission, which made him economically prosperous for the time. (30:02) • His wife worked as a secretary for the same company until she became pregnant. (30:34) • He learned from the experience, and only regrets not being able to join the Air Force earlier on in the war. (31:06) • He was only officially wounded twice, but was actually wounded more often. He was hit in the foot, and was wounded in other ways. Overall, he is thankful to have come out in one piece. (31:20) • The worst thing about the war for him was seeing his friend Milton Hall being shot. (31:47) • He was also horrified seeing the victims of mortar blasts and ADA(?) shells. (32:00) • Has a cabinet in his workshop which has some keepsakes of his time in the military. He did not take many of these during his time in the infantry as he was too busy. He had models of German equipment, some pistols, and Nazi armbands. He once had two rifles, which he had since sold. (32:38-33:20) • Fought only in Europe. After being drafted he was sent to Africa, but by the time he arrived the fighting was over. Some officials thought about sending him to Asia, but they decided they would need troops eventually and he had been trained in European style terrain so it would be better to send him to Europe. (33:53) Brief summary of training and movements while in the service • He shipped to Italy, and landed in Sicily. He fought outside and through Rome, and then he was moved again. After Rome he was briefly taken off of active duty for a breather. Next he was sent to west Europe. (34:30-35:44) • He was drafted as a young man. After being drafted he was sent to Birmingham, AL. He remarks going from New York to Alabama was very strange for him, and “may as well have been Timbuktu.” He was very lonely initially, but soon made some friends. He spent the rest of the time practicing maneuvers. (36:18) • He was only trained for eight months before being sent into active duty, as they needed replacements badly. (37:42) More Post-War memories • Explains that he spent most of the war trying to protect himself, as did everyone else. (38:14) �• • • If he had the choice to go back at the time, he would not have gone. However, his country needed him, and he had to go against his will. He was in the service from 1943 to 1946, during which he spent most of the time in combat. (38:46) While in the military he spent time in Germany, Italy, Czechoslovakia, and Belgium. (39:10) His most memorable moments were the end of the war, and the day he was told he would be going home in a short time. (39:39) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_FaranoR0281V Title A name given to the resource Farano, Rocco J. (Interview audio and outline), 2007 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-06-03 Description An account of the resource Rocco J. Farano (Rocky), of Troy, NY served in the 36th Infantry Division during the WW II from 1943-1946. He saw action in Sicily, Italy, and later served in France, Belgium and Germany. Most of the interview focuses on combat in Italy, where he led a patrol that captured a German platoon, and was later wounded. Upon recovery, he was transferred to the Army Air Corps and completed his service with them. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Farano, Rocco J. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Bova, Kristen (Interviewer) Forest Hills Eastern High School (Ada, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/17513628d1018f4b313c2a2c88caaf25.mp4 84507c6fdb6f03cdd03b0c89b8ed6806 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/660abc4882bcedb991584d4574d77f09.pdf d7f853b7becde0aba3b9894c91fc85d2 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project Kenneth Farris World War II 56 minutes 9 seconds (00:00:03) Early Life -Born in Pernell, Oklahoma in 1923 -Walked a mile and a half to school -Father worked in the oil fields -Went through high school -Started school in a little country school -Went to high school in Pernell (00:01:01) Pearl Harbor -He was eighteen years old when Pearl Harbor was bombed -Remembers hearing President Roosevelt's "Day of Infamy" speech on the radio -Read in the paper about the Japanese "peace" ambassadors in Washington D.C. -Disappointed and upset that the United States had been pulled into the war (00:02:17) Civilian Service & Getting Drafted -Graduated from high school in June 1942 -History teacher was also a government inspector -He was able to get some of the boys jobs at a Texas air base that was being built -Drove to the air base -200 miles away -Helping build up the base for the war effort -In November 1942 the draft age was dropped to eighteen years of age -Meant that he was made eligible for the draft -Received his draft letter in January 1943 -Didn't bother him -Deeply upset both of his parents though -Father took it especially hard -Went to Pauls Valley then took a bus to Oklahoma City for his Army physical -Passed the physical -Given seven days of leave before reporting for basic training -Father died in April 1943 -Believes that the stress of his youngest son getting drafted contributed to that (00:06:01) Basic Training -Took a train to Miami, Florida -Took seven, or eight, days -Initially went to Fort Sill, Oklahoma to be processed and given clothes -Didn't matter if the clothes fit -Given vaccinations -Everyone was lined up and moved through a door getting injections in each arm �-Greeted by a 2nd lieutenant -Spent seven days at Fort Sill -They were all draftees -Mostly from Oklahoma, but they came from other parts of the country too -Hadn't travelled much before that -Only went to Illinois for a couple summers to work at his brother's gas station -Reported to Pauls Valley and took a bus to Fort Sill -Took about one full day to get to the fort -Fort Sill was a big base -Started learning some basic things about Army life -Ex. learning how to march -From Fort Sill he took a troop train to Miami -Basic training lasted twelve weeks -Quartered in a hotel on the beach -Had blackouts at night -First day at Miami he had to march two miles with a rifle -Got up every day before daylight and went to the drill field -Had to make your bed and go to breakfast first -Marched a mile and a half to two miles to the drill field -Marched back for lunch -Marched back out to the drill field in the afternoon -Marched back to the hotel for dinner and then went to bed -Initially had trouble adjusting to the Army -Didn't enjoy the Army and was homesick -Met men from all over the country and made a lot of good friends (00:13:30) Salt Lake City, Utah and His Father's Death -Boarded another troop train and was taken to Salt Lake City, Utah -One train car was a cook car -Brought your mess kit into the car and got some food -Returned to your own car and ate there -Took seven days to travel from Florida to Utah -Received word that his father had died -Got that information through the Red Cross -Reported to a colonel (or a general) -Interviewed to make sure that this was legitimate -Granted an emergency furlough to go home -Given $40 and a round trip train ticket from the Red Cros -Went back to Pernell, Oklahoma -Rode from Salt Lake City to Denver, then from Denver to Topeka -Took three days to get back home -Got to attend his father's funeral -The day after the funeral he had to go back to Salt Lake City, Utah (00:17:45) Assignment to 461st Bombardment Group -In July 1943 he was in Scottsbluff Army Airfield, Nebraska -The men he had been with in Utah had been sent to the Pacific Theatre �-From Wendover Field, Utah he was sent to Scottsbluff Army Airfield, Nebraska -Trained there with B-17s for ten months -He was in ordnance -Learning how to load ammunition -Got a furlough going home and was about one week late getting back -Punished for being AWOL and was transferred to transportation -Meant hauling crews from their quarters to the bombers -Sent to Hammer Field, California with the 461st Bombardment Group -While he was at Hammer Field he remembers a bomber crashing in Huntington Lake -He had been sent to Hammer Field in October 1943 -Hammer Field was basically made of tar paper barracks -Allowed to go off the base but he had to return by a certain time -Got in trouble for coming back to base late and drunk (00:23:55) Deployment -Shipped out in January 1944 -Placed on a troop train and taken to Virginia -Most likely Camp Patrick Henry -Boarded a Liberty Ship -Carrying personnel, ordnance, and vehicles -For three or four days they waited for the convoy to get together -Didn't get seasick -Saw men lose a tremendous amount of weight due to seasickness and not eating -On the ship for forty six or forty seven days -Convoy was strafed by an Axis plane when they entered the Mediterranean Sea (00:26:25) Arrival in Italy -Anchored off the coast of Sicily for about one week -Waiting for the harbor in Naples to be clear -Pulled into Naples and was taken to a bombed out college -Stayed there for about one week -Slept on a floor with a blanket -Fed two meals a day -Had only been fed two meals a day on the ship as well -Boarded a troop train and went to Torretto-Cerignola Airfield (00:29:27) Stationed at Torretto-Cerignola Airfield -Made a camp on a farm near the airfield -Used one barn as a mess hall -Used another barn as an officers' club -Six men to a tent -Had a barrel in the tent that they could use for a fire source -Used plane fuel -By now it was February 1944 -Had to sleep on the ground for a week before they got their tent -Stayed in the tent at Torretto-Cerignola for the rest of the war -Torretto-Cerignola was the base of operations for the 461st Bombardment Group -Got close with the bomber crews -Painful when they got shot down �-Had to wait for the bombers to arrive so missions could begin -Missions began in April 1944 -His job was to pick the crews up from their quarters and transport them on the base -First pick up the enlisted men and the officers from their quarters -Take them to headquarters for their briefing -After the briefing they were brought to the flight line to board their bombers -Found out what the missions were after the crews returned -Got to know some of the crews really well -Knew how many bombers went out, and how many bombers came back -Got close with the ground crews as well -A life long friend was in the 461st Bombardment Group, just in a different squadron -On a mission over Yugoslavia this friend lost his arm -He was able to visit him in the hospital before he was sent back to the U.S. -Friend later became a lawyer and then became a judge -Became routine picking up crews (00:42:07) Downtime and Travel -When he wasn't taking crews to the flight line he would just kill time on the base -Took crews to the nearby town if he wasn't busy doing anything else -Went to Rome for three days -Visited Venice for three days -Rode on a gondola -There were a lot of American soldiers in Rome and Venice -Got to visit the Vatican and see Pope Pius XII (00:44:16) Progress of the War -When they first got to Torretto-Cerignola they were close to the frontline -Could see flashes of artillery fire at night -As time went on though, Allied forces advanced north and the frontline moved north -At first he was afraid that they would be bombed by the Germans -Some nights wondered if he wouldn't wake up the next day (00:46:08) End of the War, End of Service, and Coming Home -461st stayed at Torretto-Cerignola for the rest of the war -He was at Torretto-Cerignola on May 8, 1945 when Germany surrendered -Everyone was happy because they knew that they would be going home soon -He returned home because he had enough "points" to go home -Points: Awarded based on length of service, rank, combat seen, and dependents -Taken to Naples by truck -Boarded a troopship in Naples bound for the United States -Some of the men on the ship were infantrymen that were being redeployed to the Pacific -On their way to the United States received news that Japan had surrendered -The infantrymen were ecstatic that they could just go home -Took eleven days to sail from Italy to the United States -Places his departure from Italy as sometime in early August 1945 -Arrived in New York City �-Got to see the Statue of Liberty -Docked in the Hudson River -Taken to shore by smaller boats -Given a carton of milk -Greeted by a welcome home committee -Sent to Fort Dix, New Jersey -Stayed there for three days -Sent to Camp Chaffee, Arkansas -Discharged from the Army Air Force there -Felt good to see the Statue of Liberty and get welcomed home the way that he was -At Fort Dix you could go into the mess hall and get anything you wanted to eat -Called his mother when he was at Fort Dix and told her that he was back in the U.S. -Had a sister that lived in Shawnee, Oklahoma -Took a bus from Camp Chaffee to Shawnee -Greeted by his sister and his first wife -It was a happy time -Hadn't been home since July 1943 -Mother was happy to see him (00:53:09) Reflections on Service and Life after the War -His service made him mature -Went in as a boy and came out a man -Glad to get out and get a job -Got a job on an oil rig -A lot of things he has forgotten and is glad that he has forgotten them -Out of the six men that he bunked with in Italy he is the only one left alive -Remembers there was a Catholic orphanage in Italy they could take their laundry to � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_FarrisK1797V Title A name given to the resource Farris, Kenneth T (Interview outline and video), 2005 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-10-21 Description An account of the resource Kenneth Farris was born in Pernell, Oklahoma in 1923. He grew up there and after graduating from high school in 1942 he worked as a civilian worker at an airfield in Texas. In January 1943 he received his draft letter and he was inducted into the Army Air Force at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. He was sent to Miami, Florida for basic training, and from there was sent to Salt Lake City, Utah. Due to his father dying in April 1943 he was separated from the men that he trained with and wound up at Scottsbluff Army Airfield, Nebraska training on ordnance with the B-17. After ten months he was transferred to transportation and was assigned to the 461st Bombardment Group. He served with them at Hammer Field, California and deployed with them in January 1944. He was stationed at Torretto-Cerignola Airfield, Italy from February 1944 to August 1945. His duty was to transport crews around the airfield from their quarters to the flightline. He was sent home in August 1945 and was ultimately discharged from Camp Chaffee, Arkansas shortly after VJ Day. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Farris, Kenneth T. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Corps Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6c0ecb4e240929a4129a026b5d02c2bd.mp4 5ef30b89d46c04d45c669a225ac95631 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3ff904e9446c9a15be6e2a12408ddbcf.pdf 9a3ffb57f57a646746703a4efac33e95 PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW Women in Baseball Jean Faut Born: East Greenville, Pennsylvania, 1925 Resides: Rocky Hill, South Carolina Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, August10, 2010, Detroit, MI at the All American Girls Professional Baseball League reunion. Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, January 28, 2011 Interviewer: “Now Jean, can you start by telling us some background information. Where and when were you born?” I was born in 1925 in East Greenville, Pennsylvania and, of course, that was before the Depression, but my father was a hunter and a fisherman so we did pretty good. This is during the war and I graduated from high school in 1942 and of course the war started in 1941, and after graduation everybody had a war job and you couldn’t get any gas, so you couldn’t do hardly anything. There were only two things to do, go swimming or play ball, so I did both. We had a men’s semi-pro baseball team in our town and they practiced two blocks from my house. 47:08 Of course, these are men that had a job in the daytime and they practiced in the evening, so I would go down there and practice with them. I started out shagging flies for batting practice and they realized I had a pretty good arm, so they started letting me throw batting practice and then the second baseman taught me all the pitches. Throwing overhand and the curves and the drops and the screwballs and change of pace, and I went on a couple of exhibitions with their team. That was when I was, oh lordy, fourteen, fifteen, something like that. 48:05 A few years later, in fact I was twenty-one, and they had tryouts in Allentown, Pennsylvania for the All American Girls league and I didn’t know anything about it , but I got a call, a telephone call from a scout, in our home town, and wanted to know if I was interested in 1 �playing in a professional league. I didn’t know what he was talking about. I had never heard of the league and it took me about ten seconds to say, “yes, I’m interested”, so we arranged right on the spot. 49:08 he sent me a train ticket, this was in 1946 and the league had started in 1943, but I had heard nothing about it, so I took this train ride and I was going to Pascagoula, Mississippi. They were going to expand the league, two teams I think. They had five hundred rookies come down there to try out for the league and none of the veterans came until a week later. We took over the barracks of a naval base and we played ball every day, we had a number on our back and it was fun and I survived the week, the two weeks. 50:09 The veterans came and some older directors to decide who they wanted, or if they wanted anybody. I was chosen by South Bend and that’s the way I got into the league. We barnstormed up north, played every day on the way up by the time the league started. The league started usually around May Day, it use to be May Day, I don’t know, we don’t celebrate that anymore I don’t think. The league ended around Labor Day. Interviewer: “When you were trying out, were you trying out as a pitcher or did they not let you pitch then?” No specific position unless it would have been third base. I played the infield. I was signed as a third baseman. 51:08 Interviewer: “When you were playing with the men, when you were playing back in Pennsylvania, did you pitch in the games or did you just practice?” No, we just—maybe I pitched a little at batting practice before the game started. I wasn’t actually in the game, but it was only exhibition I guess you might call that. Interviewer: “You did basically sign as a third baseman?” 2 �Yes Interviewer: “You played third, ok.” I don’t know that it said that on the contract. Interviewer: “It might not have been, but when they sent you to play on a team, so now you talked about barnstorming your way north. What kind of reception did you get when you went to a town, what happened?” 52:01 Well, we usually just got there in time to go play the ball game and we’d be playing against a competitive softball team. Actually, when I went to spring training tryout, I thought they were playing baseball and I get there and they’re playing softball, fast pitch softball, so I was surprised. We stopped at a city every day and played a game against some local team and they played our rules as far as the distance of the pitching and so forth. Interviewer: “The game you were playing was sort of in between traditional softball and men‟s baseball?” 53:08 Yes, you could steal—you could take a lead off first. I don’t know what else was different, but I had a good time I’ll tell you. It was fun. Interviewer: “Which team did they send you to?” South Bend Blue Sox and I played with them my whole career. Interviewer: “How long was your career?” Eight years Interviewer: “Do you remember your first game when you played for the Blue Sox?” 3 �My first home game for the season, I really can’t remember that far back, but you know, I had never played on a team, softball or baseball, so playing as a team mate was something new to me, so I had to learn a little bit about that as far as batting signals and stuff like that. 54:16 Interviewer: “How well did you do that first year? Did you play well” Yes, I think I did. I had a very strong arm and I think that’s why they put me at third base. I was always very competitive all my life and I played all sport in high school and also, the All American Games that were scheduled for South American in Rio de Janeiro we were going to, and then the war broke out. 55:12 I was scheduled to go with that team as a high jumper and of course, that was cancelled because of the war. Interviewer: “The Pan American Games do you think?” Yes Interviewer: “The Pan Am Games, right, ok. So, you really were an athlete?” Yes I was Interviewer: “In a lot of ways.” I played basketball, field hockey that was my favorite because it was a little rougher than the other games. Interviewer: “All right, in baseball were you a good hitter? Could you hit well?” Well, the first year I didn’t hit well because I had a sprained thumb the whole year, but after that I did and one year I had the highest average in the league, but I didn’t have enough games in to qualify as the highest hitter, but since I was a pitcher, well that year I was a pitcher. 56:16 Interviewer: “When did you start to pitch in the games?” 4 �Well, when the league introduced a live ball they moved the distances, the pitching distance and the base paths. Everything got moved back and that’s when they went from underhand pitching to sidearm, they use to call it, then I started pitching. When they really went to complete overhand pitching, I was home free. I knew all the pitches and they had a lot of trouble hitting off me and I used to—I played for Dave Bancroft one year, he managed our team a couple years and he would have a team meeting before every game and we would discuss the good hitters and their weaknesses and stuff like that. 57:29 I was a mathematical whiz in school and I got to where I could remember the rotation that I pitched to the best hitters and then I always changed it the next time they came up to bat, so there were little crazy things like that I use to do that gave me a little edge. 57:58 Interviewer: “Now, did you call your own pitches or did your catcher call the pitches?” The catcher called the pitches, but if I didn’t think it was right I shook it off and we did something else. Interviewer: “Did you have a particular player that was your catcher most of the time or did they change every year?” No, I also played for, I think it was Dave Bancroft, but one of the managers asked me who I wanted catching for me and I chose Shirley Stovroff. She had a very good arm and could throw it to second and possible get the runner from trying to steal, so she was my main catcher. 58:54 5 �Interviewer: “Now, would you try to pick off the runners? In modern baseball pitchers have pickoff moves, they try to thow out the runner themselves. Would you do that, or would you do things to keep them close to the base?” Well, I always had my eye on them and I would try to pick them off, yeah. Interviewer: “Did you have one season as a pitcher that you thought was particularly good? What was your best season do you think?” Well, that would have been 1952. I had twenty-two wins and two losses, or it was twenty wins and two losses. 59:58 That was my best year and—I had a friend and after I stopped playing baseball I—you know you never lose your competitive spirit and it really works on you, you need to do something. I went bowling, I went to a bowling center and I went out on the bowling tour for quite a few years and there I met some of the ball players, so this one gal, Jean Havlish, she played for Kenosha in the league, she told me the gals would ask about my pitching, and she told them that their manager, every time they knew I was pitching, he would call a special batting practice to get ready for me. 1:02 Then they said, “After you had the batting practice, did you hit her?” I’m not going to say the right word, but she said, “heck no, we couldn’t hit her at all”, so I’m just referring to how they felt about the pitching. 1:27 Interviewer: “Well, when we interview other players, who played when you did and we ask them who the best players were or who was the pitcher you didn‟t want to see, your name comes up a lot. Now, did you throw a no hitter in your career?” I had quite a few no hitters, but my biggest accomplishment was, I pitched two perfect games, but you have to remember, I had a good team behind me. 2:03 6 �Interviewer: “So you had good defensive players?” Yes Interviewer: “Who do you think were the best players you played with? Who were the best people on your team?” On our team? Interviewer: “Yes” Well, Betsy Jochum was good. She just played a few years after I started and Liz Mahon, she was very good. I can’t really pick them out because they were all so good. Betty Wagner was a great outfielder and then she started pitching and was picking them off at first. Interviewer: “A left hander, yeah, will do that. 3:00 Tell me a little bit about some of the spring training. You mentioned going down to Pascagoula one year, did you make the trip to Cuba?” Yes I did Interviewer: “Tell me about that year.” Well, of course the Brooklyn Dodgers were there because of Jackie Robinson and they left the day before we flew in. When we had spring training the whole league would train together, it was not an individual team. According to the reports, they were waiting for the girls and we packed the stands every night. They loved to watch us play and practice. 4:00 In the games they would be walking around in the stands with a roll of money, making bets. Cuba was either—either you were very rich or you were poor and we stayed in a hotel that was right at the harbor and Morro Castle was right across the water and we would have breakfast down on the first floor, right inside windows that were wide 7 �open. These women use to come with their—carrying a little child kind of looking for a handout and we’d hand them some milk or something and then they would drink it and not give it to the child, but those are just some of the things I remember about it. 5:00 One thing I do remember is I was on the sixth floor, It was the Strat—I can’t remember right now, but my room was on the sixth floor and we were not allowed to take the elevators, so I’m crawling up the steps, six flights, because during spring training the back of your legs gets so sore and I had no trouble losing twenty pounds in two weeks and in spring training it was just automatic because that’s all you did is play ball and get lots of exercise. The people were very, very interested in the girls and the league picked up nine Cuban girls to play in our league. 5:57 Interviewer: “All right, why wouldn‟t they let you use the elevator?” Because you’re in spring training and you’re supposed to walk. They always wanted us to do it the hard way. Interviewer: “When you were in Cuba, did they have any special events for you? Did you do anything other than just play ball?” We just played ball, we really didn’t have any special events. That was in 1947 and after that season was over we went back on a tour and we didn’t have all those rules. Then we did all kinds of things, we went to the beach and we walked the streets. Interviewer: “Where did you go on the tour?” We went to Havana for a week and then there was some kind of problem with the contracts with the cities and then we went home, but later on they finished the tour. 7:13 They went to—I didn’t go back the next time. They went to cities in South America and Central America and they ended up in Mexico City. 8 �Interviewer: “That was the Central American tour.” Yes Interviewer: “When you came into the league, what kinds of rules and regulations did they have for the players? Did you have to do everything they did in the movie or not all of that stuff?” Well, first of all we lived in private homes, so we really didn’t have transportation. A typical day was to get up and have breakfast and be at practice at ten o’clock and you practiced until noon. 8:12 Then you go home and try to get some rest because you have to be back on the field by five o’clock. We played all night games, double headers on Sundays and holidays, so if you had a double header it’s late and if you’re lucky to find something open, you get something to eat before you go back home and go to sleep and do that thing all over again. I mean, baseball, if you play, you sign a professional contract and that’s what you do, you play baseball and you don’t have time to do anything else. 9:01 Interviewer: “What about when you were on the road? How did that work?” We stayed in hotels then and traveled by bus and sometimes long bus trips. I played for South Bend and there were teams in Wisconsin and it would probably take us six hours to get there, but once you’re there—you’re on the road for two weeks when you go on the road and then you’re home for two weeks and then you’re back on the road for two weeks, but you didn’t have that practice session in there. I don’t remember practicing in the daytime when we were on the road because we’d had a long bus ride or something. 10:02 But, we had rules; you had to be in your room by a certain time. Whether anybody broke those rules I don’t know. I was a baseball person. I wasn’t interested in 9 �going someplace and have a couple beers or something like that, but I know some of them did and that’s what the chaperone was for. We had chaperones that kept a record of who was in what room and we’d have bed check to make sure you’re in there when you should be. Interviewer: “Did you like the chaperones? Did the chaperones do a good job?” They carried the first aid kit around. 11:02 They did make arrangements for people if they had a problem you know. Some of the girls came in very young and she sort of had somebody keep an eye on them and help them along and if somebody got hurt, of course , she helped with the problem. Interviewer: “You were a little bit older than some of them.” Yeah, I was twenty-one when I started. Interviewer: “You were talking about playing every day and playing double headers. When you had a double header, would you play both games?” When I played third base I played both games, but as a pitcher I never played two games. I guess some pitchers did, but I didn’t. 12:01 Interviewer: “Did the Blue Sox ever win a championship while you were playing with them?” Yeah, we won the championship two years. I believe it was 1951 and 1953. Interviewer: “In 1953 Grand Rapids won.” It must have been 1952 then. I don’t remember, but we won it twice. Interviewer: “Do you remember anything about pitching in those championship series? Does that standout in your mind at all or were those just other games?” 10 �Well, the one that really stand out is, one year we had some players quit like a week before the playoffs, so here we are now with twelve players and everybody gave us up, but somehow your competitive spirit makes you fight a little harder and get more determined. 13:25 I can remember, I pitched three games in that series and the final game was up at a strange field because it had run late and was supposed to be in Rockford, Illinois, but there was something scheduled, so we had to go to a strange field and it had no fence, so we hit very well Interviewer: “We were talking about one of your championship seasons when you team was short handed. You pitched three games, was that a seven game series or did it go seven games? Five or six?” I think so. 14:22 Interviewer: “Were the games every day?” Oh yeah, but getting back—the third game I pitched, we went to this strange field and didn’t have—we had rules on how far the fences could be or they had to be so far, so that was out of the picture because there were no fences, so we got—we hit quite a few triples. The last one, the last time I was at bat I could have made a home run. I stopped between third and home, I was so tired, I went back and sat on third base. 15:15 That’s how tired I was. I was playing every day and that long in the season and by the time the season ends, you know you’ve had a strenuous summer, but we loved it anyway. Interviewer: “What would you do in the off season? You play the game and do you go work somewhere?” Well, I always had a job. I was working for the U.S. Rubber Co. in Mishawaka, Indiana and I had several jobs off-season. 11 �Interviewer: “But around South Bend, you didn‟t go back to Pennsylvania or anything like that?” No I didn’t and by that time I had married and had a son. 16:23 Interviewer: “Now, that was a little bit unusual for the players and you don‟t have to talk about your personal life more than you feel like it. You were married to someone who was your manager at some point, right?” Well, he became manager and I wasn’t very happy about that because it did cause problems, but it didn’t change my life any. I mean as far as—I still played ball, but I had a lot of responsibility other than playing ball. Interviewer: “Now, you had a child in the middle of your baseball career. Were you playing while you were pregnant, or did you stop, what did you do?” 17:12 Well, I didn’t play until—I missed part of a season after I had Larry. I had a woman take care of him when we went on the road and then she took care of him during home games, so it probably wasn’t fair to my son, but how do you do that? I mean, you do what you have to do and when he was about five, no it couldn’t have been that-- yeah, the last year he was five and he went on the bus with us. 18:23 I think he only did that one year, I can’t remember, maybe it was two years. That was kind of a convenient thing, I mean it was nice to have him with me. Interviewer: “When people watch the movie, “A League of Their Own”, one of the things they notice is there‟s a player who has her son with her and that kind of thing and people think—“ That was not my son. That was the son of the center fielder for Grand Rapids. Interviewer: “Ah” 12 �People ask me if my son was the brat in the movie and I always tell them, “no way”. Interviewer: “But, such things did occasionally happen. Some of the other things in the movie didn‟t ever happen, but this one sometimes did. 19:17 Now, over the course of the time that you were in the league, you talked a little bit about some of the changes that took place. They changed the distances in the base path; they got closer and closer to the men‟s game. Now, the other thing that happened was the league began to lose some of its popularity. Did you notice that in the last couple years you were playing?” Oh yes, but see, I was never involved in the business end of it and I knew—well, the boys were coming home from the service and the boys were buying cars, taking trips, and so the attendance went down and at the same time television came along. 20:23 Actually, I always felt like they should have promoted that end of it and it might have survived the problem and the reason—when the service men came home and bought the cars, that’s when they started building motels and people started traveling, so our game attendance was affected by people starting to travel, but we had very, very enthusiastic fans and in fact, some of them would drive to away games. I don’t know where they got the gas, but they got it. 21:14 Interviewer: “After the end of WWII, things eventually loosened up, so it was a little easier to get gas maybe in 1949 than in 1946 or something. What kind of relationship did the team have with the town of South Bend? Did a lot of people in South Bend support the team or promote it?” Oh yes, yes, the first manager I had was Chet Grant and he was not a baseball man, he was a football player from Notre Dame and in fact he was quarterback of Notre Dame 13 �when they introduced the pass, so that’s going way back. He graduated from Notre Dame and he was a journalist and he always said, when he was talking about the league, “You have to see it to believe it and then you still didn’t believe it”. He always said that in his—he was famous for saying that about the girls. 22:24 Interviewer: “Do you know why you had a football player for a manager? How he got that job?” I have no idea, I have no idea, I liked him. Interviewer: “Was he good at coaching? Would he help teach the players how to play or did he not do that?” I don’t think he did too much teaching, but as far as teamwork and so forth, I thought he was good. Of course, he was my first manager and anything was great in those days. Interviewer: “When they signed you, how much did they pay you? What was your salary?” I started at fifty-five dollars a week. Interviewer: “What did you get up to?” 23:15 A hundred and twenty-five a week and besides that, when I started playing they were paying meal money on the road. We got six dollars a day for food and in those days you could eat for six dollars a day. You don’t have time to go shopping and I sent my mother fifty dollars a week home to start a bank account and that was a lot of money in those days. Interviewer: “Yes it was” 14 �Financially it was great and it was wonderful for the girls to go to college. The timing was right and a lot of them did go to college and get professional jobs after they graduated from college. 24:19 Interviewer: “If you hadn‟t gone to play baseball, what do you think you would have done?” If I hadn’t gone to play baseball? I would have ended up in college and somehow or other I would have gone. I was a honor student, but we had no money, so the baseball career was great for myself and my family. Interviewer: “Now, you quit the league before it ended. You went through 1953 and then you stopped?” Well, if you recall, I married the manager and it caused problems and eventually it just didn’t get to be fun for me anymore, so I thought—I always felt that when it’s not fun anymore, I’m going to stop and that’s what I did. 25:28 Interviewer: “Did you go to college after that? What did you do after you left the team?” I had some pretty good jobs and the one I like the best—I was hired as administrative secretary of mosquito biology training program at the University of Notre Dame financed by the National Institute of Health. It was a five year program and I ran it, I worked for five professors and it was extremely interesting. 26:19 Notre Dame is the mosquito center of the world and they maintain all species from all over the world, so most of the students that entered the program were graduates form foreign countries, eighty percent of them were foreign. My main job was to computerize all the research that had been done on mosquitoes up to date. If somebody wanted to study a certain species that 15 �carried a certain disease, they would write to me and I would print up everything that had ever been done on that disease or that mosquito species. I would get that printed out and send them. 27:36 We maintained the eggs in the laboratories, in the freezer. You put the eggs on the paper toweling and put it in the freezer and you can keep them forever and all you have to do if you’re going to hatch them is to put them in water and they’ll hatch. I would send them these eggs and the printout and they would write back and thank me for doing six months of their research for them. 28.14 I loved that program, it was a five year program and when Richard Nixon became president, he cancelled all training programs throughout the country, so there went my job. From there I went to Miles Laboratories and worked in the research there. Interviewer: “All right, when you look back over your baseball career, how do you think that affected you? You said a little bit about that, but do you think it changed you or you gained something from it?” Oh yes, it was a wonderful experience and you got to meet a lot of people and make friends with a lot of new people. You’re exposed to a lot and when you apply for jobs they respect the fact that you were a professional and I really, really loved the experiences. 29:42 And it was probably the best eight years of my life. Interviewer: “After you finished playing, people did know that you were a ball player because a lot of the players never talked about it?” No, I just—when you apply for jobs you have to put down what you’ve been doing and your education and stuff like that. 16 �Interviewer: “I guess in that area there would have been people around South Bend who remembered, „Ok, that‟s the Blue Sox”, and they would know that, at least that generation would know that.” 30:21 I did some crazy things in the off-season to try to keep in shape. I remember shoveling snow for this one store, so people could park and stuff and they always asked the owner, “Why do you have that girl out there shoveling snow?” He would have to tell them that she wanted the exercise. I did little crazy things like that. Interviewer: “At the time you were playing, did you see yourself as being any kind of a pioneer or this league as starting anything important or were you just playing ball?” Could you repeat that question? Interviewer: “Today we look at the league as being pioneers and kind of the first women to go and do this kind of thing. Did you think of that at all while you were playing?” No, never, we were having a good time and a lot of them said they would have done it for nothing, but the money was nice. 31:34 People who have jobs and they don’t like their job, I mean, I feel sorry for them because it’s your life and if you don’t like your job, you’re depressed, so to do something that you really love to do is a great way to live. Interviewer: “And it certainly makes for a good story, so I would just like to thank you for coming and telling it to me today.” Thank you for having me. 32:13 17 �18 �19 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League was started by Philip Wrigley, owner of the Chicago Cubs, during World War II to fill the void left by the departure of most of the best male baseball players for military service. Players were recruited from across the country, and the league was successful enough to be able to continue on after the war. The league had teams based in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan, and operated between 1943 and 1954. The 1954 season ended with only the Fort Wayne, South Bend, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Rockford teams remaining. The League gave over 600 women athletes the opportunity to play professional baseball. Many of the players went on to successful careers, and the league itself provided an important precedent for later efforts to promote women's sports. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-58)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Sports for women World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Oral history Baseball players--Minnesota Baseball players--Indiana Baseball players--Wisconsin Baseball players--Michigan Baseball players--Illinois Baseball for women--United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-10-02 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58_JFaut Title A name given to the resource Faut, Jean (Interview transcript and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Faut, Jean Description An account of the resource Jean Faut was born in East Greenville, Pennsylvania, in 1925. As a teenager, she shagged flies and pitched batting practice for a men's semipro team, and was spotted by an AAGPBL scout and recruited into the league. She played from 1946 through 1953 for the South Bend Blue Sox. She was initially signed as a third baseman, but had such a good arm that she was converted to a pitcher, and became one of the most dominant pitchers in the league. She threw several no-hitters and two perfect games, and helped her team to win two championships. She was married and had a son while she was in the league, and when he was old enough, he came with her on road trips Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Baseball for women--United States Baseball Sports for women World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Baseball players--Indiana Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-08-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-55)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/53d38664ac4729fae1a3bb7cd93b405e.mp4 ea0a8b59b5a8f174087d5e5743d14a1a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3f0b63f5631c1a86616fb681956869d1.pdf fd9d865a208f95ed0dd073afd847d57a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Leonard Feerick Jr. (00:53:00) Introduction (00:10) Family and Friend (00:15) • • Born in Sparta, MI on February 8, 1925 in his home, delivered by a midwife. Feerick Jr. mentioned that he attended K-12 in a very small room which has long since been demolished. (04:12) Pre-enlistment (05:34) • Feerick describes the shock and dismay that people had when Pearl Harbor was attacked. What followed were feelings of hatred towards Japanese Americans. He mentions the resentment Americans had towards them. (06:04) Enlistment and Basic training (07:34) • Feerick Jr. mentions that he didn’t want to join the navy. While he was in line at the recruitment station in Detroit the navy representative took everyone who was in line up to a certain point and those people joined the navy. (07:34) • Afterwards, he went to the reception center in Fort Custer, MI to take tests to help the armored forces determine where to best place him. They saw that he had mechanic skills and so they placed him in the army air corps. (08:37) • Went to Miami Beach, FL for basic training. Unlike many trainees who had to train in the dust, he trained on the beach. (09:35) Stayed in Palmer House and describes his living arrangements. Had previously picked up his uniform at Fort Custer. • Typical days usually consisted of waking up; reporting for roll call, cleaning their hotel rooms, and drilling. Briefly mentions that while marching they were expected to sing. (15:36) Conducted close-ordered drills at a golf course. His training was nothing as difficult as what the typical marine or infantryman went through. • Spent 6 weeks there. (17:32) Afterwards, went to Gulfport, Mississippi where he went to mechanical training school. Feerick Jr. learned about hydraulics, physics, etc. (19:37) Frequently listened to the radio of news of the war abroad. �• At one point, he and a few other soldiers were taken out of mechanical school before graduating and sent on ships to England. While waiting for a ship to take them to England they did nothing. (22:47) • From there, he went to Camp Kilmer, NJ but on the way spent a few days in Greensboro, NC where a few of the men came down with measles and were quarantined for a few weeks. (24:16) The Crossing (24:31) • From Camp Kilmer, NJ they boarded a French cruise ship, recently converted into a passenger ship, and were crowded in it by the thousands. (24:31) • Briefly describes the regular emergency drills that they had while aboard ship during the crossing and that many came down with sea sickness. England (27:14) • Landed in Liverpool, England and was there a few days. He than went to an airfield where a combination of British-American fighter pilots were stationed. While there, Feerick Jr. briefly mentions the small barracks he shared with a small group of Canadians and colonials. (27:14) • From there, he went to Sudbury, England where he was supposed to be trained in how to handle bombers but wasn’t. (28:35) Instead, he had various responsibilities in the officer’s mess hall and cafeteria. (30:40) • Feerick Jr. briefly mentions various exercises done by Mustang fighters over the base as they would fight mock battles. (33:14) Mentions that one pilot always buzzed by the house of the superior officer who transferred him off the base. • Describes the atmosphere of living on the base. (35:23) He mentions that often when he went to bed his bunkmates played cards. (37:33) • At around the time of the Battle of the Bulge, he was transferred to Tinsworth, England where he underwent infantry training. Tells of a particular sergeant who had psychological problems because of his time in a bunker when a shell exploded near his position. (39:22) • It was soldiers like this that trained Feerick Jr. and others how to shoot a gun, crawl through trenches, and drill. He mentions that he crawled under chicken wire. Shares his personal thoughts. (41:14) • On one occasion, an instructor pulled a rip cord on a hand grenade and threw it. Feerick Jr. mentions diving for cover as the grenade exploded scattering �guns and men alike. (42:32) The point of the exercise was to see how the trainees reacted. France and Germany (46:05) • After training in England, the war in Europe came to an end. Feerick Jr. mentions that he was then sent to France where he went to clerk-typist school in preparation for working for the military government in Berlin, Germany. • Worked in Berlin, Germany on the Russians-side of the Berlin Wall. Briefly describes traveling the Autobahn and shares his thoughts on that. • Briefly describes a few encounters with German people and their feelings of Allied occupation. (46:05) He further describes the hostility that the Russians had towards Americans on their side of the wall. In one encounter, he was touring East Berlin on a tour bus and wanted to get off to see the sights but wasn’t allowed to. Describes what the average Russian was like. Going Home (48:56) • Feerick Jr. was discharged at Camp Atterbury in December 1945. Describes how civilians were more than willing to entertain troops and the heartfelt welcome of a grateful nation at their return. After the War (50:11) • Took a train from Camp Atterbury to Grand Rapids, MI. From there got a ride from a gentleman to Sparta. Shared his thoughts about how united the country was behind the troops. (51:08) Briefly mentions his thoughts on New York people. (53:51) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context FeerickL Title A name given to the resource Feerick, Jr, Leonard (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Feerick, Leonard Description An account of the resource Leonard Feerick, Jr. served in the US Army Air Corps during World War II. He trained in Miami, Florida, and Gulfport, Mississippi, and was eventually stationed in England where he worked in ground support on an airbase. Toward the end of the war, he was transferred to the infantry, and eventually served with the Army of Occupation in Berlin. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-02-11 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b87ba246e7b1af7217076b054914a580.pdf 99f9dade0f1f8dbbb3b253f26cb99686 PDF Text Text The Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project Interview Log Sheet Storyteller: Mattie Jordon-Woods Interviewer: J. Louis Felton Date: 10/16/06 Time: 42:49 Facilitator: K. Duggins Location: CMF- Kalamazoo (0:00) Introduction (1:00) Pastor Feldman’s history in Kalamazoo. Discusses a bit about politics in Kalamazoo (5:01) Mattie gives her history of living in Kalamazoo, the politics of the city and of black people in Kalamazoo. How she developed the idea of working with community. Discuss the influence of her mom in becoming who she is (10:57) How Feldman came to work in the Foundation (13:35) Mattie discusses how she came to be involved in the Foundation (16:44) Mattie discusses the grocery store that she facilitated getting built, the problems she faced and surmounted (21:38) Continue to discuss the store (24:59) Pastor Feldman discusses the memorable experiences in his work as a pastor and with the foundation (33:28) Living your purpose, how to do it (40:43) Mattie discusses the goals of her dream foundation � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d687f0917e54263f64c88f98d28dc354.mp3 0dedf19f57abf843e9a5144f348654a6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project Interviews Subject The topic of the resource Philanthropy and society--Personal narratives Family foundations--Michigan Charities--Michigan Description An account of the resource The Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project (MPOHP) was initiated in 2006 as an innovative partnership between the Council of Michigan Foundations, StoryCorps, Michigan Radio and the Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership at Grand Valley State University to create an oral history of Michigan philanthropy. Additional video interviews were created by the Johnson Center for Philanthropy to add to the depth and breadth of the collection. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/516">Michigan Philanthropy Oral History Project (MPOHP) (JCPA-08). Johnson Center for Philanthropy Archives</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-05-02 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Sound Text Moving Image Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf video/mp4 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JCPA-08 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2006-2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson Center for Philantrhopy Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource StoryCorps (Project) Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JCPA-08_Felton-Woods Title A name given to the resource Conversation with Rev. J. Louis Felton and Mattie Jordan-Woods Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Felton, J. Louis, Jordan-Woods, Mattie Description An account of the resource Reverend J. Louis Felton, Trustee of the Kalamazoo Community Foundation, and grantee Mattie Jordan-Woods, Executive Director of the Northside Association for Community Development, talk about their experiences living in Kalamazoo, Michigan and how Mattie's work in bringing the Felpausch Food grocery store into the northside neighborhood has been a significant change in Kalamazoo's revitalization. Subject The topic of the resource Philanthropy and society--Personal narratives Family foundations--Michigan Charities--Michigan Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives, Johnson Center for Philanthropy Archives, Council of Michigan Foundations StoryCorp Interviews Relation A related resource Johnson Center Philanthropy Collection (JCPA-08) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Sound Portraits Productions StoryCorps (Project) Michigan Radio, Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives Dorothy A. Johnson Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofit Leadership Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006-10-16 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c2a26965f412b647a7beeb5afc3b4040.mp4 47a274a10ea6ae90b9010539d37d574d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b17d5266e9efba484d9dc703b8b96afc.pdf e266b9d6642fb1149b8fe478339263e5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Walter Felver World War II-Post War 38 minutes 45 seconds (00:00:10) Early Life -Born in Littleton, Colorado on September 4, 1927 -Moved to Phillipsburg, New Jersey when he was five years old and grew up there -Father worked for Ingersoll Rand -During the Great Depression he only worked four times a month -Refused to accept welfare though -He had three brothers and one sister -He was next to youngest -When they were old enough they all got jobs to help the family out -He worked for a newsstand and also sold ice cream to bus passengers -Sometimes would just ride a bus to Philadelphia and back (00:03:03) World War II -Heard about Pearl Harbor when he was in a movie theatre -Manager stopped the movie and announced that Pearl Harbor had been bombed -Didn’t notice too many changes at first other than his father having more work -The rationing of meat and gasoline was put into effect shortly after the war began -Had an old car and had to keep top half of the headlights painted -This was to comply with the blackouts at night -Two of his brothers went into the service during the war -His oldest brother went in first, and then the second oldest brother went in -Second brother was killed in action on August 16, 1944 at Caen, France -Oldest brother made a thirty year career out of the Army (00:06:58) Getting Drafted -Graduated from high school in June 1945 -After high school he continued to work for that same newsstand -He registered for the draft and knew that eventually he would have to serve -Received his draft notice in August 1945 -Reported for duty on January 6, 1946 and went to Fort Hancock, New Jersey -Initially was sent to the Port Authority in New York City to board a ferry -Took the ferry up the Hudson River to Fort Hancock -Remembers seeing an aircraft carrier in the Hudson River -It was very cold at Fort Hancock -Stayed there until basic training was set to begin (00:10:33) Basic Training and Tank Training -Placed on a train and rode from Fort Hancock to Fort Knox, Kentucky for basic training -Remembers seeing his house from a distance as they passed through New Jersey -Only time that he ever got homesick -Train ride took about a day and a half -Upon arrival at Fort Knox he was assigned to a barracks and medically examined �-He was assigned to armor, specifically tanks -They would go out on the range and practice shooting the M1 rifle and .30 cal. machine gun -Learned how to drive a tank, command its crew, and load and fire the main gun -Went on marches and received something similar to infantry training -Physically demanding -Part of the infantry training involved crawling under barbed wire and being shot over -There was a high emphasis on discipline and following orders as well as following protocol -Had a little difficulty transitioning into being a soldier -Eventually wound up enjoying it -The drill sergeants training them had been in World War Two -Go to punishment for insolent soldiers was extra kitchen patrol duty or sentry duty -Trained in the M4 Sherman tank which was equipped with a 75mm main gun -Was not difficult to drive -Driving it was done using two levers and two brake pedals for each track -Trained at Fort Knox for two months (00:16:50) Assignment to Fort Lewis -After training was complete he was allowed a thirty day leave home -Sent to Fort Lewis, Washington -Had to find transportation to get there on his own -Took about four days to travel from New Jersey to Washington -He was assigned to the 717th Tank Battalion in the 2nd Infantry Division -Prepared to go overseas if necessary -There were three alerts for them to go to Korea -They were supposed to go to Fort Ord, California if they were being deployed -He had a couple duties at Fort Lewis: -Venereal Diseases Noncommissioned Officer (VD NCO) -In charge of handing out and tracking small arms that were being used on base -Everything from a .45 pistol to a .30 caliber machine gun -At Fort Lewis they were using the M26 Pershing tank -Armed with a .30 caliber and .50 caliber machine gun, and 90mm main gun -He carried a .45 pistol and a .30 caliber carbine -He was assigned to a tank crew -There were thirty tanks in the 717th Tank Battalion -He was part of A Company -One of his duties was to assign small arms to different people for different tasks -Then make sure that the weapons were returned and secured afterwards -As VD NCO he had to make sure that men had protection when they left the fort -Also show movies and give talks about what you should do and shouldn’t do -He made the rank of Technician Fourth Grade (similar in pay to sergeant) -Majority of the men that he served with were also T4’s -Fort Lewis was fairly close to Olympia, Tacoma, and Seattle -20 miles, 35 miles, and 50 miles respectively -There was a bus that would take you to Olympia -A lot of times you had to get your own transportation -You could get a three day pass to Portland, Oregon if you wanted one �(00:24:24) Men He Served With -Most of the men were new to the Army like he was -Some of the men at Fort Lewis had fought in World War Two -A close friend of his at Fort Lewis had been on the Bataan Death March -The veterans would talk relatively openly about their experiences in the war -There were men from all over the country (00:25:42) Daily Routine -Get up in the morning and get breakfast -Go out for the assignment of the day -Going on maneuvers or going on a hike (00:26:13) Maneuvers in San Diego -For some larger maneuvers they would go down to San Diego, California -For the trip down they had to waterproof the vehicles with cosmoline -They would sail out of Puget Sound and then go down the West Coast -Once in the San Diego area they would drop anchor about three miles off the shore -They would go to shore and back in a LCM (landing craft mechanical) -Remembers going back to the ship in a storm on one maneuver -Thought the LCM would sink and he would drown -The storm was so bad even sailors were getting seasick -And to get onto the ship he had to climb up a rope ladder in rough seas -Navy, Air Force, and Marines were involved in these maneuvers as well -Remembers the Army-Navy Game was being play at this time -They actually stormed a beach in San Diego as part of the maneuvers -Remembers the water still being so warm in November -Went through the city of San Diego on half-tracks and people waved to them -Felt like they were coming back victorious from a war -It was enjoyable to go into the city -They stayed overnight in a barracks -The next day they boarded the USS Skagit and sailed back up to Seattle (00:32:38) Downtime -They would visit the nearby cities for their sources of entertainment -Never did anything that got him into trouble or that he felt he shouldn’t have done -There was a nice dance hall in Portland, Oregon -Could go to movies -Some men would get into trouble when they left base -Either by going to the bars or having relationships with local women -He managed to avoid that (00:34:20) End of Service -He spent a year and a half at Fort Lewis -He knew that he was going to be discharged in September 1947 -One of his final duties was to be an armed escort to transport a prisoner to the mental hospital -Had to sit in the back of the truck with a loaded rifle, across from the prisoner -Transportation happened without incident -Relieved to get back to Fort Lewis and turn in his rifle �(00:36:04) Weather at Fort Lewis -Remembers that it rained almost constantly in the area that Fort Lewis was in -As a result he would have to take his uniform to Tacoma every week to get pressed (00:36:34) Life after the Army -Went home and one of the first things he did was see his girlfriend -He got a job at the Easton Daily Express, a newspaper in eastern Pennsylvania -Worked as a compositor (setting the type or text for printing) -Worked there for forty four years -Eventually moved to Michigan with his wife to be closer to his two children -Son had gotten a job in Lansing, Michigan to be a TV weatherman -Daughter’s husband’s job transferred him to Michigan � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context FelverW1761V Title A name given to the resource Felver, Walter (Interview outline and video), 2014 Description An account of the resource Walter Felver was born in Littleton, Colorado on September 4, 1927, but his family moved to Phillipsburg, New Jersey when he was five years old. He grew up during the Second World War and lost a brother to that conflict. After graduating from high school in June 1945 he signed up for the draft and in August he received his draft notice. He reported for duty on January 6, 1946, and after a short stay at Fort Hancock, New Jersey he was sent by train to Fort Knox, Kentucky for basic training and armored (tank) training. When his two months of training were complete he was sent to Fort Lewis, Washington where he stayed for a year and a half, going on maneuvers, keeping a record of where the small arms were and who had them, and acting as the Venereal Diseases Noncommissioned Officer. He was discharged in September 1947. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Felver, Walter Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-10-31 Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives