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                    <text>William James College Interviews
GV016-16
Interviewer: Barbara Roos
Interviewee: Adrian Tinsley
Date: 1984
Part: 1 of 8

[Barbara]

Hit the light. Okay, now I actually am running.

[Tinsley]

Okay.

[Barbara]

When you came to James – you know, it would be nice of you to mention when
that was, when you actually came as Dean – what did the administration tell you
about what was expected at the college?

[Tinsley]

I came in the summer of nineteen seventy-two. The college had completed one
year of operation when I came. I can't say that the administration of Grand Valley
told me anything about what they wanted the college today. Let me just start this
again. It’s going to take me a little...

[Barbara]

Well, I'll adjust the shot.

[Tinsley]

Okay, it's going to take me a little bit to kind of warm up.

[Barbara]

I know, it always does.

[Tinsley]

It's like doing a practice interview.

[Barbara]

It is, so start again and take as many times as you want. I have an entire case of
tapes.

[Tinsley]

Okay.

[Barbara]

What was it like? What did the administration tell you? "Hi Adrian, here's what
you're supposed to do."

[Tinsley]

Well, I came to the college in nineteen seventy-two. And I can't say that the
administration told me anything about what they wanted the college to be. The
college had completed its first year of operation. I knew that Grand Valley was
beginning a cluster college operation and that William James was the third
college and that Grand Valley anticipated that there would be more colleges.
That the decision had been taken early in Grand Valley's life – in fact, it had been
a plan George Potter's, I believe – that instead of just growing bigger, because

�Grand Valley expected to grow significantly. Instead of just growing large, they
would develop a whole series of colleges and each would have its own mission
and its own curriculum. So, William James… I understood William James was to
be part of that. And I understood that there had been a task force to set up
William James chaired by Tom Cunningham. And I understood that what was
written in the task force document was what the administration wanted the
college to be and that was a career-oriented college. What I did not understand
was that even at the point at which I arrived at William James – in its second year
– there was some significant concern in the Grand Valley administration about
the direction that the two cluster colleges, Thomas Jefferson and William James,
were taking.
[Tinsley]

And, in fact, after I had been the Dean of William James for a year, the Vice
President to whom I reported, Bruce Loessin, said to me with a big smile: "Well
you've really done a good job – the college has survived! Most of us didn't think
that was going to happen!" And that was my first indication that there was any
question in anybody's mind that the college would survive.

[Barbara]

Two things about that I didn't understand. I don't understand who Potter is… you
made a reference.

[Tinsley]

Potter was, I believe, a Vice President for Academic Affairs at Grand Valley and
the first president of Grand Valley, James Zumberge… I don't know if it was
Potter or Zumberge that had the notion of developing a cluster of colleges. They
had that idea but didn't implement it. Don Lubbers was the president who caused
that to be implemented.

[Barbara]

Why… I mean, when Loessin said that to you, you must have said whatever
[Inaudible]. Why start a college and presume it's going to fail? I don't understand
it.

[Tinsley]

And reasonably enough you don't understand it. William James was supposed to
be a career-oriented college. When the first faculty were hired by Bruce Loessin,
he took pains to hire a faculty that came from the traditional liberal arts
disciplines and were very – not traditional – but very good faculty in the traditional
sense. They had good academic degrees. They were not interested in doing
career education in the sense that I think Grand Valley had in mind. I think Grand
Valley had in mind that William James would be what they later had to start
Kirkhof in order to get. So, there was a sense right from the beginning that they
were looking for a technical college and William James was becoming something
quite different from what they had in mind. But what can they expect, given the
faculty that they had hired to found the college?

[Barbara]

Turn this off for a second. Make sure this thing is running right. I get a certain

�amount of neuroses… paranoia, that's the word I'm looking for. Tell me… Ah!
Tell me… let’s get you in the shot.
[Tinsley]

Tell me, whoever you are.

[Barbara]

Okay. Tell me what the administration said… what did you observe? What was it
in total, you know, really meshing all kinds of things? What was going on when
you arrived? What kind of place was it?

[Tinsley]

It was struggling to be born when I arrived. It had been in operation for you a
year. It had had no planning time. It had been started just immediately, crack off
the bat. After that, the task force report had been completed; an acting dean had
been put in; the faculty had been brought in.

[Tinsely]

And they had no lead time, they were just told that you are open in September
and get your curriculum together. So, they were struggling that whole first year to
put together a first curriculum and hire a new staff. There was not much
opportunity to do anything other than run very hard to accomplish those tasks.
But my belief about the college… and I knew it pretty well because I interviewed
for its deanship before it started and then did not come at that time…had other
commitments and then came a year later. So, I had a chance to talk to Robert
Mayberry and Bruce Loessin that very first summer, and then again in the
interview process for the second year. What I observed were that the faculty that
were at the college took that planning document – the Cunningham Task Force
Report – very seriously. And they were about the business of trying to make that
happen. And I observed that the most compelling part of it – it certainly was to
me and I believe it was to the faculty – was the notion of good work. We had a lot
of words for that, you know. Vocation with a "V," career-oriented, the notion of
doing something useful in the world. And we struggled a lot because we didn't
want this college to be simply career-oriented, but we wanted to have utility to do
something useful in the world – to make social change – and there were a whole
bunch of ways of talking about that. But that's what I saw when I came… that
people were looking at the college to be and that people wanted the college to
be. Everybody came to the college with a critique of their own graduate
education because we were all young. So, we were very clear about what we
wanted the college not to be and, in fact, that was kind of a problem early on. We
kept defining ourselves in terms of what we didn't want to be. We didn't want to
have grades. We didn't want to have majors and disciplines. We didn't want to
have a sterile kind of research focus. So, everybody had their own critique and
everybody, I think, also had their own dream of what the perfect college would
be, what the perfect society would be. The piece of it that was in the public space
right from the beginning was making a difference in the world and that's what I
thought people wanted to do in the world.

�[Barbara]

Change the shot here.

[Tinsley]

Does the tape pick up your questions?

[Barbara]

Yes, but what I'll do is redub them because I'm off mic.

[Tinsley]

Okay, okay.

[Barbara]

You can hear them, but you have to strain to hear them.

[Tinsley]

Okay.

[Barbara]

So I get a chance to clean up my act.

[Barbara]

James operated as a sovereign state. You would agree?

[Tinsley]

Yes.

[Barbara]

Did we seize that sovereignty or was it given to us?

[Tinsley]

Neither really. We didn't seize it. Seizing implies some kind of resistance. I think
in the early years, the Grand Valley administration did not have a particular plan
as to how they thought the college should develop or indeed what they wanted
from it. We took a lot of freedom, but we didn't really have to fight them for it.

[Barbara]

If we can just stay in this shot. How did feminism infuse the college?

[Tinsley]

Well, feminism was extraordinarily important in the college. I think… you
obviously are going to have to edit this because I will get rolling in a little bit but
I'm not yet. I think feminism was probably one of the most important social forces
that operated in the college. It's an interesting mystery why the initial first eight
male faculty turned around and hired a number of strong women faculty and the
women dean. But that's in fact what happened. I said earlier that everybody
brought their own dream to the college. I think the women, in particular, brought a
feminist dream and you have to remember this was nineteen seventy-two, so
feminism was just really becoming a significant social force. And feminism
embraced both notions of, you know, gender equity and also notions about
organizational structure. There was a lot of talk in the feminist community at that
time about non-hierarchical decision making. About rotating authority. About
everybody taking turns doing the job so that everybody got a chance to do all the
jobs. A lot of talk about how you didn't want to specialize into male roles and
female roles or faculty roles and administrative roles, you know, to go by
extension. So, the whole philosophic context of radical feminism came into the
college as in many ways as the dream – or at least the strong interest – of a lot of

�the women faculty that came. And particularly as it related to, you know, malefemale relations and organizational structures. The men were coming in with the
same kind of a dream. They may have come to it through feminism per say or
they may have come to it through some other kind of social analysis. But there
was general agreement on what our politics and then for the social structure of
the college. So, I guess I would say feminism affected the college because there
were a lot of women there. I mean we were very unusual in that there were so
many women and that the women really were in positions of a good deal of
authority, respect, and influence – both formally and informally. Whether they
were program coordinates, or the Dean, or whether they were just strong faculty
who were “Weighty Friends” in the Quaker sense in the design of the curriculum.
Feminism, I think, influenced a lot of our early attempts and organizational
structures.
[Tinsely]

The whole governing structure, the coordinator's temporum, or the notion that we
would take turns doing the college's jobs. And I think it influenced the way we
treated each other. It influenced what kinds of interactions were acceptable in the
public space of college and, indeed, in people's home lives. And I think it was
interesting in that regard the ways they interacted with each other – the men and
women in college. We never fell into sex roles – or the kinds of gender-based,
sex-based teasing – that is real frequent in other situations. The place that
feminism didn't affect the college terribly strong was we never developed a very
strong Women's Studies program. I often felt as Dean, you know, I was really
remiss in the kinds of formal curricular or extracurricular things we could offer our
women students. I often saw women students come in, you know, if they’re first
in their family going to college, with very conventional aspirations and it was
possible for women students to go through this structure that was a college and
be a little untouched about what was going on. And I thought that was a real
weakness. And I think it came from the fact that the women were so busy in their
nontraditional roles - sort of running the college, developing the curriculum – that
there really weren't people to spare for developing the more usual Women's
Resource Center, Women's Studies program, and the like.

[Barbara]

I think to me, a question that follows that when we were interviewing faculty, we
went through these long interview processes – forty-eight-hour things – and we
always knew what we were looking for. What were we looking for?

[Tinsley]

Well, I think the easy answer to that is we were looking for people like ourselves.
But what did it mean to be like us? I think we were looking for some sort of real
evidence of commitment to social change. We were looking at people's politics.
We had political litmus tests and I think there's… you know, we shouldn't blink
that fact. I can remember interviewing a candidate for psychologist at one point –
a woman – and she was asked something that had to do with feminism and then
she responded that she didn't care to define herself; she didn't care to take on a

�label. It was very important to us that people we label that they have politics. So,
I think we were looking for that. I think we were looking for breadth. I think we
were looking for people that were interested in a lot of things. And I think we were
looking for people that weren't interested in sort of narrow, discipline based,
traditional academic interest. I think we found them kind of pompous and kind of
boring. We could know us when we saw us. But how you'd write that down on
paper it isn't really clear. Except we did know us when we saw us, and we were
anti-pomposity and we were pro-politics. But our politics had a very broad
definition. We were pretty inclusive in our politics, but we demanded that people
have politics, I believe.

[Barbara]

It’s coming up to the… conveniently this blinks at me when we’re running out of
tape.

[Tinsley]

Okay, okay.

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                    <text>William James College Interviews
GV016-16
Interviewer: Barbara Roos
Interviewee: Adrian Tinsley
Date: 1984
Part: 2 of 8

[Barbara]

And I'm rolling.

[Tinsley]

Okay.

[Barbara]

And I wanted to ask you: we refer to some mysterious beast called a “real
William James student.” What's a real William James student?

[Tinsley]

Well, again, you know, a real William James student – you knew one when you
saw one. We wanted students to take responsibility for their own education; we
painted it up on the walls in Lake Superior Hall… that wonderful cartoon of the
student we didn't want which was somebody having knowledge poured into his
head through a funnel. We wanted students to do it themselves. And so, a real
William James student was a person who knew what he or she wanted to learn
and took their own route in getting there.

[Barbara]

I just screwed up, Adrian; I just pulled the panhandle. Can you repeat the last
part?

[Tinsley]

Sure.

[Barbara]

I’m sorry.

[Tinsley]

A real William James student was a student who knew what he or she wanted to
learn and desired to take responsibility for learning it. Wanted to use the faculty
as resource people. Wanted to figure out how to learn and was willing to hustle
to, you know, really move their butt to get what they needed. Willing to go to a lot
of sources and use a lot of resources. Had some drive and motivation. I think in
the early days, the real William James student was somebody who was
specifically seeking an alternative education, who shared the views of the faculty.
In the areas, for example, of grading. That letter grading was at the root of all
evil. Who wanted the freedom to design their own way of studying things, who
wanted to do independent studies. And as those students became fewer and
fewer in number because we had many more those of in the early days of the
college, you know, then I think the real William James student became simply the
one with energy. The one who was self-initiating.

�[Barbara]

How did we teach them this?

[Tinsley]

I don't think we taught them to it, they came with us. They came with us.

[Barbara]

But there was a phenomenon of students who were lost for a year and then
turned it on.

[Tinsley]

Well, that's true. But I don't know how that happened. But you have to remember,
I was not in the classroom teaching the students so that I got to know the good
students and I got to know the problem students.

[Tinsely]

But I could not explain how that mystery actually happened in the classroom
because I wasn't there.

[Barbara]

Let me grab my notepad out of here. Oh, the rocking adds a nice comfortable
touch. We were profoundly egalitarian, and yet you were in a leadership role.
How does one lead a commune?

[Tinsley]

That is a very good question, and I must say what I learned about leadership in
that situation… that's probably the most important learning I took from the college
actually. I guess I'd answer that by saying I didn't go to William James; I didn't set
out to be the leader. I didn't know enough to know I was supposed to set out to
be the leader. And I think one of the things that is important about William James
and my contribution to it is that not only were all the faculty very young, I was
very young. I have never been a dean before. I didn't know, really, what deans
we're supposed to do. All of us made this college up out of we what we knew.
And all of us had a critique, but none of us really knew how to make the college
happen. I think it's important for the college that I did not arrived with an agenda.
I arrived responsive to the same social climate that everyone else was
responsive to. We had a variety of ideologies, a variety of critiques, but I didn't go
there saying "I am the Dean and this is my vision of alternative education". I think
that the role that I played… and I don't want to give the impression that I was the
colleges facilitator, because I don't view what I did in that way. But I think what I
did I think I had the gift of being able to understand what kind of vision for the
college motivated most of the people who were there. And they were very
different visions and I think my gift was to be able to find some common ground
among those visions that we could agree to and put that in the public space and
affirm it. And I think that – as I thought about in later years - I think that is
probably the quintessential quality of leadership. Pat Labone used to say to me
that what the dean should do is read the litany. She had a Catholic childhood and
there was some real truth to that. I often used to long to have a chapel and
William James that everyone was required to attend so the little inspirational
speeches could be made. I think it's important that an institution have that and I
think that I brought that to the college. And I think that I had the ability to bridge

�among the various kinds of faculty at the college. I think it was extraordinarily
important to success of the college that I could talk to heavy male synoptic types,
that I could talk that language and that I valued that. I think it was important that I
could talk to the women. And I think it was important that I could talk to the
people who brought professional skills into the college but more scared,
frustrated, and sometimes irritated at the quality of intellectual discourse that
went on because they felt insecure about participating in it. And I truly believed
there was room for everybody. And I think that I kind of could embody that. And I
think I also – in terms of leadership – was able to work with the college's peerpressure structure.
[Tinsely]

Because you can't tell people to do things and you can't make people do things,
and an administrator has to work with what's there. You can say "no" but you
can't make it happen. And so, the trick to it is to be able to mobilize the energy
that's there, give it some focus, and get people on the same wavelength. And the
college had very strong norms of behavior. I mean there was a lot of peer
pressure in the college that said, I believe, what faculty were supposed to do and
what they were not supposed to do. And I think I was able to work with that and I
think I was able to find some constructive channels for using people's energy.
Not always, but if there was a trick to operating as a leader in that kind of setting,
that's how I would describe it.

[Barbara]

But surely what you just described at the end of your answer would be true of
being an administrator at any college.

[Tinsley]

Yeah, it is, but it was more so at William James because we had a rhetoric about
– and said and really meant – that we were non-hierarchical. I think that's how
the whole critical issue format developed, which I think was a very healthy one
for the college. As inexperienced as I was – and I really was absolutely green
when I came to William James as Dean – and I remember, practically, the first
week that I was there we were drafting the governance document for the college.
And that was drafted by Robert and Inge and it was very elaborate, and it was
really a model for participatory form of governance that worked neither on
hierarchy nor Roberts Rules of Order, which was what we wanted. But even
though I was I very green and I looked at that and I said: "Wait a minute, the
Dean has responsibility beyond, simply in a consensus fashion, gathering the will
of the faculty and implementing it.” There are probably issues at the college that I
am responsible for and there are issues that the faculty is responsible for, and
yet we’re all responsible for all of this together – how can we sort that out? And
out of that came the notion of a critical issue. That most of the times we would all
be on the same wavelength about what we wanted to have happen. But because
we had different responsibilities and sat, in a sense, in different chairs, there
might be times when the college would want to do X, but I would know it couldn't.
It absolutely couldn't. And thus, was born, you know, the critical issue and the

�veto. An elaborate way of saying: "But the college says this and the Dean said
that, the Dean would say 'no.'" And then you'd go back and discuss it some
more. And you might still come out with yes and no but their would be ways so…
I didn't abrogate what was my real responsibility to make sure that in matters of
relating to the structure at Grand Valley, the college didn't harm itself. And that
the college at some basic level operated in the way it ought to: in trust from the
people of Michigan, through the Board of Control, you know, through the
President, and down to me. I had real, legal, responsibilities there.
[Tinsley]

And yet at the same time I was a member of the community and wanted to be
involved in the process of working out what the college was going to be and do.
Because I didn't know. So, I was both part of the process and outside of the
process.

[Barbara]

Presuming that some people are going to see this tape that have no direct
experience with James, would you care to give an example of a critical issue that
actually came up?

[Tinsley]

Yes. The critical issues came up around hiring issues and around money. And
two examples were: at one point the council voted to hire a faculty member and I
felt the decision was untenable, that it was made not because the person was the
best candidate, but because there were a great many…the person was known to
us, there were many personal feelings involved. And I felt it would be
irresponsible of me to let that decision go forward, so I vetoed it. Another issue
came when we had a very elaborate, as you will recall, salary administration
policy. And which I did not like, but never really interfered in because I felt that
was the faculty's business to determine. I did not approve of it. In one particular
year, it works to really the detriment of an older member of the faculty who was
going to end up with a less than a cost of living raises as a result of the operation
of this policy and I said "No, that would not be acceptable." There may have been
others that were more, you know, policy issues but I don't recall them. One of the
interesting things was that these issues arose very rarely because we have did
most of our work by persuading one another. It was very interesting; we were
frequently compared with Thomas Jefferson College because we were both
alternative colleges of sort of different kinds of stripes. I thought, and I think many
people agree, that there were very different leadership styles at the two colleges.
Thomas Jefferson was run by guru, a bearded, alternative education dean who
put his picture on the front of all the colleges brochures. And then, in fact, the
early brochures, you know, showed his face with his beard and the little legend
was: "This man runs a college." The faculty at Thomas Jefferson seem to be very
pleased to have a dean who would be their guru and who would not tell them
what to do exactly but would take care of them. That was basically what it
amounted to, would take care of them. And we had a model that was much more
political. Our model was: everybody had to understand how this works,

�everybody has to have an operator manual because we all have to understand
the political context we're working in order for to work, I guess. I don't want to
say, "We won't survive," because we didn't sit around thinking "Well, maybe it
won't survive." But we all had to understand it.

[Tinsely]

And I felt really strongly about that and I think most of the faculty felt strongly
about that. And I was not there to, you know, be there to take care of them, and
they were not there to be, you know, recipients of somebody's guruism. I think
that was real important as to how we worked. It was like a marriage, it really was.
People called me Adrian, but if they were really angry at me, they referred to me
as the Dean and I didn't like that, you know. I can recall saying: "I am not the
Dean!" or "I am Dean, but my name is Adrian!" So, there was, you know… I don't
quite know where I'm going with the rest of that answer but…

[Barbara]

Let me check on the tape. Ah, look there! See, I have this sixth sense.

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                    <text>William James College Interviews
GV016-16
Interviewer: Barbara Roos
Interviewee: Adrian Tinsley
Date: 1984
Part: 3 of 8

[Barbara]

There you go. There’s a good tape… [inaudible]. Okay, we’re a go. Just tell me,
just [inaudible] about the beginning.

[Tinsley]

Well, what I really remember about the beginning – although, of course, I didn't
realize it at the time – was we were all so young. I sometimes think about the
three older faculty who are in their fifties, who were hired because the initial core
faculty had some sense that we ought to have a spread of age and experience in
the college, which was an absolutely right instinct. But I wonder what it must
have felt like to Willard and Doris and Phyllis to arrive with this entire college that
was so very, very, very young. And I look at the pictures of us from those days,
and it's kind of interesting to see us. We were very concerned to build a sense of
community in the college and that expressed itself in a lot of ways. The first year,
I recall, the first fall that I was there we decided to go on a retreat together. And
we all packed up our camping gear and we went off. I can't even remember
where – somewhere on a river. I remember being out on a rowboat with Pat and
Inge and Romano. I remember that Robert wouldn't go because he didn't believe
in going camping. And I remember that Richard expressed the sentiments that he
would not know how to pack the right food and he was hooted down for the
sentiment and told that he would have to work like everyone else. We had the
phrase – which I'm sure many people have referred to – we wanted to integrate
our work and our lives. We wanted to be an intentional community. In some
ways, as the years went on, that wore a little thin as we realize that the
integrating our work and our lives meant basically abolishing our private lives.
And spouses were not always thrilled to be part this of intimate, intentional
community. But I remember the first fall… our way of doing business was typified
by the first fall. We had a confrontation. One of the students, a black student,
whose name I have forgotten… I may be putting two or three incidents together.
But there was some real criticism of how we were doing business. I believe it
came from a black student, although I have forgotten his name at the moment.
And to deal with that, we simply shut college down for a day and all got together
to talk about it. And that seemed to be the most reasonable thing in the world to
do. Toni Cena wrote a very moving statement which she read. I can remember
us all sitting around on the floor, talking earnestly about whatever these charges
were that had been brought, and how we can do better as a college, and how
students could take more of a hand in the college. And that seemed the most
natural way in the world to do business and very, very good. And we did a lot of

�that. I remember the first year we painted the walls of Lake Superior together and
that was very nice. And I can remember – or maybe it was the second year –
Rhonda was the Assistant Dean, and I can remember people painting mustaches
on me and Rhonda and taking pictures of us.
[Tinsley]

I had a good friend that I worked with in the Modern Language Association who
visited me in the first year and I brought her out to the college and showed her
around and she turned to me and says: "You can't fool me, Adrian. I know what a
college is; this is not a college; this is a summer camp." I always remembered
that because I took that as a compliment. There was a real attention to
community.

[Barbara]

Where did that attention come from? Where did that ethic come from?

[Tinsley]

Well, I think Robert, as he did so many things and gave it articulation. We were –
this is not Robert 's formulation – we were not to be alienated from our labor.
That's not Robert 's formulation; Robert would have talked about not being
cynical. Robert would have talked about, you know, controlling the conditions of
your work life so that they were human and met your human needs. They came
from the whole movement in the sixties to make work life more responsive to
human needs. And I think most of us had felt very alienated in our graduate kind
of experiences… had felt we were part of big faceless bureaucracies. It was also
a time in American history where there were an awful lot of communes. It was
right in the middle of the “back to the commune” movement. So, I think it came
from those places. And then once we were all there, is when it kind of took on a
life of its own. And I think was, probably for me, it was one of the very, very
appealing parts of the college. That it was not only a workplace, but it was a
place where you really were yourself, and you know, in a sort of a whole human
way.

[Barbara]

Some people I have talked to acted as though there were two William James
Colleges: the early one and the late one. Would you comment on that? With the
kinds of things you're talking about, how much of that persists? Or why did it
change if it changed to something other?

[Tinsley]

Yeah. Well, I like to like think it persisted. And for me, of course it persisted.

[Barbara]

Me, too.

[Tinsley]

So I don't have the sense of their being two colleges. The college changed in its
externals. The college change in some of the externals of its organization to
reflect demands that came about as Grand Valley put them on William James,
and as the State of Michigan put them on Grand Valley. I learned as I'd gotten
older a lot more about the kind of demands that come from the outside that mean

�you don't operate as free agent, if you're looking to the state for your money. And
as Grand Valley began to get its act together. You asked me earlier what Grand
Valley wanted from William James. Grand Valley didn't have its act together, they
didn't know how they were going to develop. As they began to get their act
together, they wanted William James to fit into their structure.
[Tinsely]

And so we began to have to do some things to suit Grand Valley. For example,
we always had a great deal of flack around the title of the course, "Uptight About
Writing" – it became symbolic of kind of conflict we were always in. The faculty
thought that the title absolutely expressed with that course was about. The Grand
Valley administration thought that that course title made William James look silly
and made Grand Valley look silly. We did a lot of changing of external things so
that Grand Valley didn't feel it was looking silly. Some of that was legitimate, I
think. So, my view was that what changed a lot was our way of fitting into the
bureaucracy. The student body changed, you know. That seemed very real to me
even though I was not, myself, in the classroom often. I taught maybe once a
year. I could tell the students were changing. And the students wanted different
things. And I think that's where the sense that there were two William James'
comes from. The later students came because we had an Arts and Media
program. They just wanted to learn what they, you know, were supposed to learn
so they can get jobs in arts and media. The kind of students that really wanted to
direct their own education, we had very few of them towards the end. So, I think
that was a real change. But for me the other stuff was superficial.

[Barbara]

I would argue, being in Arts and Media, some of the guys that just graduated and
the last people to graduate… I interviewed one of them, and he's typical, okay?
And pissed off because they took James away. And he articulates and
personifies something that is far more than just a hard nose, "I now have my
professional stuff and I'm going out in the world." He talks about being in
Steven's class before William James was closed and afterwards and the
difference in the other student. You know what I mean?

[Tinsley]

Yeah, oh yeah.

[Barbara]

I'm still not convinced it's just the students changed.

[Tinsley]

Well, it may not be. But my first answer to the question: I didn't feel there was an
early William James and a late William James. Perhaps there was in a sense that
we were younger earlier and it was fresher. We believed it was a good idea to all
go camping with one another. Probably after ten years, we didn't think it was a
good idea to all go camping with one another. But that's just sort of time passes
and, you know, life happens to you. I didn't think what was at the center of the
college changed much. I really didn't.

�[Barbara]

That makes two of us.

[Tinsley]

[Laughter]

[Barbara]

Where did the seminal ideas come from? We talk about feminism – and that's
really important – but how did William James actually… it seems like a miracle. I
don't understand how James suddenly, genuinely, infused the college…
something that had been dead for X number of years, you know.

[Tinsley]

I think it came from a really happy confluence of a lot of streams of thought and a
lot of things that were happening. I think we all acknowledge we were awfully
lucky to get the name "William James" and I don't think we thought that up. I
believe Tom Cunningham named the college, so we had that to work with. We
also had that very thoughtful document that the task force had put together,
which embodied a lot of the ideas of the late sixties but pointed forward in his
emphasis on careers. So, it gave us something we could kind of sink our teeth
into. I think we came from a lot of different intellectual places. We were just Godgiven lucky that it just worked together. Robert, for example, whom I knew the
best of anyone because I had known Robert – we had been graduate students
together at Cornell. Robert was very interested in the philosophic base the
college was working off. He cared passionately about not making what he used
to call invidious distinctions between the liberal arts and practical subjects.
Roberts was a person… it was very important to Robert to view himself as,
simultaneously, a philosopher and a practical man. From his philosophic side
came many of the ideas that carried the college forward. And then in the next
year also from Stephen. For me, I didn't come to it by reading philosophy. I came
to it by teaching at the University of Maryland in the English department. The
University of Maryland had, like, fifty thousand students on the College Park
campus. There were over one hundred faculty in the English department. And I
couldn't figure out what anyone was doing there. I used to look out over the rows
of parking lots and say: "I know why I'm here; I'm getting paid to be here. But why
are the students here?" I really didn't understand that. It was the late sixties and
early seventies. All of the students who were majoring in English were paralyzed,
they didn't know what to do with the lives, their degrees we're not going to fit
them to do anything, the Vietnam War was going on. The students I knew spent
most of their time smoking dope and being very scared. And really not knowing
how to interact with the world that was going to greet them when they left the
University of Maryland with a kind of a third-rate degree in English literature. For
me to come to a college that was going to put some emphasis on being able to
do in the world was really important. I mean I cared passionately about that and
when I was interviewed, the Grand Valley administration said to me: "Well you
have a PhD in English literature, what makes you think you can be the Dean of a
college that is practical?" And I said: "You just don't know how much I desire this.
This is the desire of my heart." And then I think feminism came in also, with its

�stress on theory and practice. I think a lot of people came to the college from an
ideologically feminist perspective wanting to combine those two.
[Tinsley]

So all that came together. And I don't want to say we were just lucky, but we
were living at a historic moment where it could come together.

[Barbara]

This comes from another question that I forgot to ask you. What is a male
synoptic heavy?

[Tinsley]

Oh, a male synoptic heavy? Well, that's the men in the college and it was
interesting how it did tend to divide on gender line.

[Barbara]

Oh damn. Adrian, I just moved the damn thing again.

[Tinsley]

Oh well, we'll do it again.

[Barbara]

Keep going anyway.

[Tinsley]

One of the tensions in the college was that a compelling interest in discussing the
philosophical base of the college seemed to divide along gender lines. It divided,
to some extent, on professionals versus the liberal arts line, but really it was on
gender lines. And there were a group of men that were perceived as the male
synoptic heavies, and they carried the flame of the sort of philosophic base of the
college. The women saw themselves, in many ways, more as the doers and
tended to rely, in many ways, more with the professional faculty. And yet those
two had to talk to one another. One of the tensions in the college had to do with
one's synoptic credentials. Only on a tape about William James College could
one talk with a straight face about one's synoptic credentials. But I can remember
at faculty retreat, prior to one of our years, in which we had facilitators come in to
get us going for the year. And that's what came out – that there seemed to be a
distinction between the philosophers, the synoptians – those who were seen as
guarding the flame of those who were appropriately liberal artsy and the others. It
was an interesting tension in the college and people felt very insecure about it.
The man who did not see themselves as the liberal arts heavies felt very
insecure about it, as did some of the women. The women in the college who
have those credentials to be synoptic heavies were sometimes impatient with it. I
felt that I could really relate to both sides, and those were the strengths. And that
the college needed both… because one of the things that gave the college power
was that it did have a concept – it really did – and that gave it enormous power.

[Barbara]

Concept of?

[Tinsley]

Theory and practice. And using theory and practice to make a difference in the
world.

�[Tinsely]

And we spread out from there – the concept got broader from there. But it had
that core concept.

[Barbara]

End of tape. Good answer.

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                    <text>William James College Interviews
GV016-16
Interviewer: Barbara Roos
Interviewee: Adrian Tinsley
Date: 1984
Part: 4 of 8

[Tinsley]

Yeah, test at the end.

[Barbara]

Question will be: [inaudible] the administration at Grand Valley, at various times,
would give you, sort of, “We're not completely happy – shape up” or “You're
doing very well – this is going to go on forever.” Did you get that kind of feedback
from [inaudible]?

[Tinsley]

Yeah.

[Barbara]

That's not phrased very well, is it? Do you know what I mean?

[Tinsley]

Yeah. It's another version of "What did the administration think was happening."

[Barbara]

Yeah. Okay, anytime you feel comfortable. Let me just double-check that we’re
rolling. Yeah, we are. What kind of feedback were you getting from the
administration?

[Tinsley]

It's interesting that I'm having a difficult time answering questions about feedback
from the administration at Grand Valley and there were really two parts to the
administration at Grand Valley. The first phase was during the period that I
reported to Bruce Loessin. And I might just say, parenthetically, that one of
wonderful things about being totally greenhorn, an inexperienced dean, and
being a woman and never having served in the army, I was told I reported to
Bruce Loessin. I guess the first year I reported to Harold Colbert; I had no clue
what it meant to report to somebody. I had no notion what the term meant or that
I was supposed to tell them what was going on in the college and that was what it
meant. But from the college’s second year, up until about nineteen seventyseven, I would guess, Grand Valley had a structure which differentiated where
the colleges reported. And William James and Thomas Jefferson reported to
Bruce Loessin and the other colleges reported to Glenn Niemeyer. That function
was split. In seventy-seven, or whenever the reorganization took place… it may
be seventy-seven, maybe seventy-eight. Let me start this answer again Barbara.
Okay.

[Barbara]

No harm.

�[Tinsley]

Let me think about it for a minute first. Okay, the question that you asked is what
kind of feedback, criticism, encouragement, direction that you got from the
administration of Grand Valley. There were really two administrations at Grand
Valley during the time that William James existed. During the first administration,
I reported – William James reported – to Bruce Loessin. Grand Valley had a
structure in which the vice presidents were all equal and they were all called the
Vice President of the College.

[Tinsley]

Bruce was, at that time, the vice president of the college William James and also
Thomas Jefferson reported to him. This is not just a bureaucratic thing of interest
to administrators. Bruce was responsible for William James and for Thomas
Jefferson and so he wanted us to do well, as well as he wanted us to do good
and fight evil. And he bent his fairly considerable energies to helping us do that
and to fighting our battles. You didn't ask if I had any mentor at Grand Valley; if I
ever did, it was Bruce. He was a kind of funny mentor, you know, a little short
guy. People used to laugh about little, short Bruce and his high heels. But he
looked out for William James because it was his – it reported to him. What I got
from him was: "You’ve got to make it so it looks like the other colleges. You can't
be out there looking weird. I don't want to change anything you're doing; I don't
want to change you. I think William James is great and I think you have the finest
faculty at Grand Valley, but you have to not look weird." And that was really, to
tell you the truth, that was right. Bruce was right about that. He would give me a
little pep talk about not looking weird. I'd go back; try to get us not to look weird.
But he helped us, you know? He would fight for us when we had clashes about
who was going to offer what or were we going to be able to get our name out in
advertising brochures. Bruce was there fighting for us. So, he had an interest in
us. And seventy-seven or seventy-eight… this was a bizarre structure at Grand
Valley with these deans, the vice presidents at the college and the academic
units reporting lines split. Don changed the reporting structure and Glenn
became the Vice President for Academic Affairs and all of the collegiate units
reported to Glenn. Now, you have to understand I'm not saying anything about
Glenn or Bruce personally; I'm talking about structure. The day that
reorganization came down, Bruce took me to lunch at the Matterhorn and he
said: "I just want you to know, that I've always been on your side, always before,
and I have really busted my ass to make sure William James got its fair share
and survived, and I've been your friend, but you need to know that I'm on the
other side now." And I said: "Right. I understand that. I appreciate your just
saying that upfront, you know? Thanks for everything Bruce." And in some ways,
I mean, you could say that was the beginning of the end. When the college is
reported to a different vice president, what it felt like was you had your very own
knight. When I needed something, I went to Bruce; CAS needed something, they
went to Glenn. Then Bruce and Glenn got into their suits of armor and rode out to
go like this to one another. And, you know, sometimes one won, sometimes the
other, but the Dean just kind of sat back, you know, and waited to see who was

�going to triumph. When all the units reported to Glenn, we had entered the era of
rational planning and the emphasis went to program. When the units reported up
different lines the emphasis was on, not program distinctiveness, but
distinctiveness of mission, distinctiveness of student body, distinctiveness ethos.

[Tinsley]

When all the students reported to the same vice president – and maybe this
would have been true whoever the vice president was. I'm suggesting that I think
a lot of the issues were structural; the issue then was which college will do what?
We'll have a rational plan, and programmatically, we'll differentiate
programmatically, you know. And I think people do have to understand that this
was not an individual decision that Glenn made because he was an individual; it
had to do with rational planning with the kind of accountability that he had placed
on him. Because we were entering a time of much tighter money and Grand
Valley couldn't really afford to have computer science programs in both places. It
was confusing, it was messy, and it was expensive. So that's the apologia. What
actually happened when we started reporting to Glenn was that the whole
emphasis went on programs and on new programs. What Glenn wanted from
Williams James was that it would develop new, sexy new programs that would
attract new students and that could give us a niche that we could occupy. And we
fiddled with a lot of things there, at one point, I mean, computers was our thing.
At another point it was going to be environmental science and planning; at
another point it was going to be social work. The problem that happened there…
rational planning might've worked as a model, but the units were of such a
different size and political power. We could make all the bargains we liked, we
can say "We'll do social work and you do nursing. We'll do arts and media and
you do fine arts." But every time a decision was made, we do this and they'll do
that, and what we were doing looked interesting or looked like it was drawing
students, then the other unit wanted to do it. And we didn't have it – I don't think it
was the political clout – we didn't have the size. There were too many faculty
angry that little William James got to do this and they didn't get to do it. And so
those faculty would go to Glenn or they would go to Don. And Grand Valley was
governed in a political way. It was and probably still is on the political model.
There are books written about styles of academic governance and you can have
the bureaucratic model, and you can have the hierarchical model, and you can
have the political model. And Grand Valley was governed in the political and that
meant that we couldn't keep our gains. So, the problem for us was that Glenn
would say: "Develop some new programs." And our tongues would hang out and
we'd say: "My god, we developed a whole new college. We've got zillions of
programs. We've got three programs per faculty member." You know? We need
to consolidate some programs; we need to grow some programs; we need to
develop; you know, we need to let some programs get bigger and stronger.
When we got good stuff, we'd lose it. We couldn't hang on to it.

�[Barbara]

Like what?

[Tinsley]

Like computers. I suppose that was a real good example.

[Tinsley]

The deal was, initially, when I went to the college that the math department
wanted to do computer science. Right at the beginning, the math department had
an opportunity to hire Ken Hunter and had refused to do it. And William James
had hired Ken Hunter. Ken had a genius for understanding how to teach the use
of computers in business and applied context. And that's what our students
wanted to learn. And he built a super program in that area. It was called
Administration and Information Management. Very strong in information
management. And it was very clear where the lines were. It was rational
planning. Mathematics Department did computer science and students who did
that went to graduate school and they became computer scientist and if you
wanted to be an information managing specialist and work in business in an
applied way, you went to William James. Along about the middle or end of the
seventies, it became clear that we were in a gold mine; we were sitting on a gold
mine. We were sitting on top and what everybody wanted to do. And the math
department began to want to do it. And the math department had a lot of political
power at Grand Valley. The lines were clear, you know, there was no question
about what the agreements were. But there was a lot of political issues, so Don
Lubbers set up a task force to look into the matter. And he hired a consultant who
came and spent a couple of months on the campus one summer looking into the
matter. And then he called a meeting and we all trooped into the President's
office to have the meeting at which we were going to decide what was going to
happen with computer science. And Don VanderJagt went in from the College of
Arts and Sciences; Bruce Klein at that point was already in the College of Arts
and Sciences or maybe he was with us, I can't remember this. The punchline of
the story was VanderJagt trooped with the Dutch guys from Holland and this area
and William James trooped in with the woman, the Jew, and the Martian. And I
thought: "I think I know how this is going to turn out." In the end, you know, I
suppose I should be careful putting that statement on this tape.

[Barbara]

Maybe you need to say that again.

[Tinsley]

Yes, probably… I will say that again.

[Barbara]

Why don't I change the shot… it's accurate, but I don't think you're really…
[Inaudible].

[Tinsley]

Yeah.

[Barbara]

Okay, let’s see. So, then William James trooped in. You can go from there.

�[Tinsley]

Yeah, so then William James trooped in with a fine program, but we didn't have
the political clout of the people that had been at Grand Valley for a very long time
and we're very close friends of Niemeyer and of Lubbers.

[Tinsley]

We were a smaller unit; we didn't have nearly the potential to make trouble for
Lubbers that CAS had to make trouble for Lubbers. So, somehow we ended up
losing out. Now the way in which we lost out was not that Don said: "I've thought
about this and on the face of it the College of Arts and Sciences is a bigger unit,
it has more students, it makes more sense for the program to be there." Don
said: "I've thought about it and it doesn't make sense for me to prevent the
College of Arts and Sciences from doing it. I'm not going to prevent them from
doing it. I certainly want you to keep doing it; you're doing a wonderful job. Let
many flowers bloom." And when you broke down the trade agreements and let
many flowers bloom, it was very hard for William James to compete. So that's
why it was very hard for us to hang onto students, because we were a smaller
unit. Now you might ask me, it might be good question to say: "Why was it hard
for William James to compete, you know, in an atmosphere that said 'let many
flowers bloom.'" And that's the real question. Because we were smaller, because
we were viewed as an alternative, because as the decade began to draw to a
close, people in large numbers began to be a little afraid. Maybe they always
were, but it was a little closer to the surface of their mind, they didn't want to go to
a school that was weird. So, if you wanted a real straight-line thing, like
computers in relation to business, and you had your choice of taking it at CAS or
in William James, chances were unless you were an unusual student, you would
take it at CAS. Because we really were an alternative to that. And yet it meant it
was hard for us to hold onto our programs if they took equipment because we
couldn't develop enough students. That was a rambling answer, but you can
maybe use parts of it.

[Barbara]

It's blinking at me anyway.

[Tinsley]

Okay.

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                    <text>William James College Interviews
GV016-16
Interviewer: Barbara Roos
Interviewee: Adrian Tinsley
Date: 1984
Part: 5 of 8

[Barbara]

It’s meant to warm up [the camera].

[Tinsley]

Okay.

[Barbara]

Okay. We are balanced.

[Tinsley]

Okay.

[Barbara]

When you left…

[Tinsley]

When I left…

[Barbara]

Yeah. Did you think that we would…how long did you think we would survive?

[Tinsley]

When I left, I didn't think the college would not survive, but I thought it was
problematic. And the reason I thought that is that the college was getting smaller.
We were finding it more difficult to hold onto programs. I started thinking about
leaving in seventy-nine, actually the end of seventy-eight, and left in the summer
of nineteen eighty. And I left for two reasons. The compelling reason was I
needed a rest. I needed to find out who I was when I wasn't being the Dean. If I
could've gotten a year’s sabbatical, I probably would have stayed. And I
discussed that with Glenn and while he was not opposed to a sabbatical, he felt
that he couldn't spare the Dean for more than three months. And there was some
reason to that. In any case, I decided I would simply move it on. Another thing in
my thinking about that was that I did not see how Grand Valley could continue to
put the kind of money into administrative salaries it was putting into to run the
collegiate structure. I thought that the collegiate structure was getting marginal
from a financial perspective. If you think about what it cost to have at William
James, a Dean. We had – for most of our time – an Assistant Dean at least part
time. We ran the Records Office – Hank Mei's operation. We put money, you
know, modest amounts of money into Student Services – that was a lot of
overhead. If you counted that up that was probably a hundred thousand dollars a
year in the administration of William James College. We were smaller than many
departments. I mean, we were twenty-two, twenty-four faculty. If I looked at
Grand Valley – and you remember at Grand Valley at its peak was at six
collegiate units and by the time it ended was at four – that’s a lot of salaries and

�administrative overhead and that made me nervous. So, I thought that was
problematic about the college's survival and I was just tired. I thought I needed to
do something else. It's, you know, it was a long… I was Dean, what, eight years,
I guess. And that's a number of years of working very hard and cheerleading so I
needed a rest. When I left, I said to myself: "This is a window in the college’s
history. Right at this moment, I perceive us as very secure, nothing is threatening
us. It is time for me to leave and this is a good moment to leave," because I didn't
want to close the college – that was last thing I wanted to do. And so that’s kind
of why I decided to leave and when I decided to leave.
[Tinsley]

And at the time I decided to leave, I did not think we were in any danger, though I
was well aware of what the administration of those collegiate units was costing.
And I was also, by the way, well aware - and I haven't said this on this tape - you
know, if you think about it, the Deans of the two alternative colleges were
women. Women were pretty well represented at Grand Valley during the time I
was there. But we were running the alternative colleges and I said, and I
remember saying this, you know: "When we choose the next Dean, we have to
choose someone who's more like them. We have to try to get this embedded in
Grand Valley." So, I was not, you know, looking for another woman. I was hoping
that the college would get someone who could maybe do a better job than I had
of getting the college really embedded in the Grand Valley social structure. And
those were my thoughts as I left.

[Barbara]

It occurs to me that it in your last answer, you said there were two levels of
administration and you talked about Bruce Loessin. What kind of feedback did
you get from the other level?

[Tinsley]

You mean from Glenn or from Don.

[Barbara]

I don't know.

[Tinsley]

Oh, the second… once we started reporting to Glenn, I talked about getting
feedback about programs. Glenn certainly never said anything to me to suggest
anything other than he supported William James and he was working very hard
to understand William James. He found a lot of it incomprehensible, but I believe
he did work to understand it. And I believe as long as he thought it was
supportable, he worked to support it. That's not a very good answer.

[Barbara]

Okay, I understand. I was envisioning Lubbers.

[Tinsley]

Yeah. Let me talk a little bit about… you know, some question like: were there
any major threats to the college or…

[Barbara]

Yeah, what were they?

�[Tinsley]

You’ll remember that towards the end of the seventies, things starting to get –
financially – really tough in Michigan. And Grand Valley had to go through a
retrenchment and reallocation, and I believe that happened in seventy-nine. And
that was the first serious and significant threat to the college. And that one, we
came out of okay. And I guess I'd like to talk a little bit about that because I don't
think many colleges could handle that situation the way that we did.

[Tinsley]

The deans were not involved in making the decision to reduce and reallocate;
that was done at the level above us. We were simply brought together and told
Grand Valley was going to reduce and reallocate; that it was probably going to
cut Thomas Jefferson and that we had to prepare budgets. Well let me go back
because I want to get this accurate. I'm going to pick that up again. The deans
were brought together and told that Grand Valley was looking at a shortfall of
money that we were going to reduce and reallocate. And we were given targets.
We were given, I think, three levels of targets for cutting: the deepest, the middle,
and the lightest. And we were told to go home and figure out how to do that. To
go home to our college. Go home, it sounds like home, we go home and figure
out how we do that and come back prepared to meet those three levels of cuts.
And also, to figure out where the new money would be reallocated. The family
obviously didn't want to do that. I mean that is a very painful thing to do. But
when I went back to William James, and I remember that afternoon because I
went back on a Friday afternoon to say: "The news is we’re going to have to
reduce and reallocate; here are the levels we have to shoot for." I said, "How do
you want to do this? If you like, I'll just do it. If you like, you can. I am open to
suggestions; we'll do this any way you want to." And the faculty… it wasn't a
council meeting; it was just the faculty. We didn't take any votes, people just said:
"Look Adrian, let's make a committee of people that we all agree we trust and
then you guys just do it and come back and tell us what you've done, and we'll
tell you if it's okay." So, a committee was made of Robert and Barry and
Kathleen. The next morning at five in morning, the phone rang and my father was
dead. So, he died literally the next morning. And that committee came over and
we sat around my dining room table before I flew off to my father's funeral,
figuring out how to do this. And then that committee just sat down and figured
out, you know, what we could do and what they could live with. And we brought it
back to the college and nobody fetched, and nobody screamed, nobody said:
"Kill the administration." Everybody just said: "Well, you folks have done the best
you could, thanks." I was really amazed.

[Barbara]

What percentage cut did we lose?

[Tinsley]

I can't remember, but it was deep. It required a retrenching. I think in the end
three faculty. It was not clear if it was going to be five, four, or three, and my
memory is it in the end was three now. It wasn't clear, at that point, whether the

�cuts in Thomas Jefferson were going to be so deep that the college was going to
die as a result. And we had one meeting that was sort of the last critical incident
of my watch, as it were. We were all given to these nautical and military
metaphors. But I do think of it as my watch, and it was the last critical incident,
and I'm rather proud of it so I guess I want to tell it on this case.
[Tinsley]

The deans were all brought together in the Dean’s conference room and we
simply were to go around the table and talk about how we'd like to meet the
budget shortfall, and so I presented our plan, everybody did. It was very clear
that the senior administrators wanted to deal with the problem by merging
Thomas Jefferson and William James. And they thought that would take two
units, both of whom we're getting so small that they might be marginal, and
perhaps give them enough substance to be able to survive as a joint unit. I
thought that would be an absolute disaster. Just an absolute disaster. I thought
that although, indeed, the two of us we're both alternative colleges, and we both
had women deans, that didn't mean our operating philosophy is… our ideologies
as colleges were just so different. I could not see anything positive would come
of that. And I knew that it rested on me to prevent that from happening right that
moment. And I can remember taking a deep breath and remembering, and
knowing I had to get on my feet. I had to somehow get some height in the room
and to be able to speak with the kind of authority I wanted to speak with. And
there was a folding blackboard in that conference room which was closed and I
can remember getting up and very slowly walking to that thing, opening it up and
getting a piece of chalk and beginning to draw diagrams on the blackboard. And I
have no idea what I drew, but I was trying to get myself, you know, organized, to
make the pitch to show how different we were. So, I drew these diagrams and
delivered a little lecture about the differences between the two colleges. And
maybe talked for ten minutes, you know, as compellingly as I remember going
about anything. And when I finished there was a long silence. Nobody said
anything for about a minute and then Doug Kindschi – and I will be grateful to
him for this to this day – said: "You know, that's right. William James and Thomas
Jefferson are very different and if we put them together, we'll likely lose what's
good in William James." And that was it, you know, and then they passed on to
other topics. So things were tense during that last… that reduction. And then, of
course, there were further reductions to be had after Forrest had come on board
as Dean. So [Inaudible] started getting really tough in seventy-eight and seventynine.

[Barbara]

And that's the… you said, plural, the threats, buts that's what they did?

[Tinsley]

That was the most compelling one that I had to deal with.

[Barbara]

What about hostility from CAS all along, did we feel it? Did you feel it?

�[Tinsley]

Oh sure, sure, it was a real pain. I didn't feel it from my colleagues because, you
know, they weren't allowed to for one thing. And also, it was simply we were at a
level where we were kind of above that. But for the faculty it was very tough
because there was that constant grinding: "You're different, you're not as good.
We won't play with you. We don't have to. We're traditional, we're good." And it
was so ironic because our faculty was one of the finest in the country. I mean, we
didn't come from Michigan, we came from all over the United States. And we had
superb degrees from superb schools. And we had to put up with this kind of "Well
you're not good enough for us to let you, you know." We took all of CAS's
courses for credit. But CAS was always very picky. "Well, we might not take that,
it might not be up to our high standards." And so that was a constant problem for
us; and it's too bad. And it happens in all kinds of places that try to do this kind of
thing.

[Barbara]

That's true. What would it have taken for us to survive?

[Tinsley]

Well, I don't think we could've survived. And I have really given that a lot of
thought, obviously, because I've had to think: "Is there something I could have
done that would've made a difference for us." And here's why I don't think we
could've survived. It wasn't financial; although, as I indicated earlier, it was very
expensive to have four, or five, or six different deans. That was a problem, but
the reason we didn't survive wasn't because of money. And I think that was clear
when Grand Valley reorganized itself into schools or colleges. They didn't leave
faculty off, at that point, because the issue wasn't financial. The issue was
twofold. One, and they're both important, but the first issue was Grand Valley
was always fighting with itself. The problem could never be solved that the units
were competitive with one another. There was no way to make them stop fighting
each other. And particularly not if you're working in a political model. I often
thought, if the presidential just said: "There will be no more fighting. I won't have
it. The next complaint, the person will be fired." Maybe it would have stopped,
although I doubt it, because it is human nature. But it would have put the central
administration at a very autocratic position, saying: "CAS will do this, William
James will do that, and that's the end of it. I don't want to hear any more about it.”
And they didn't want to that do that. And I can't blame them. They would've come
off as tyrants, and they would not have won any friends with CAS, which was
much larger and more powerful a unit, just to kind of save us. But because they
didn't do that, everything was in a constant state of turmoil. And Grand Valley, in
the end, just couldn't afford that. We needed to pull together and put our energies
outside the institution, not with constant battles inside. And I believe that's the
reason that it couldn't work and that cluster colleges, in general, have a very hard
time working. I think, also, and I never used to believe Bruce Loessin about this,
but I think it gave Grand Valley a kind of weird image in the community. It's a very
conservative community. We always used to say that William James is really
lucky to be embedded in a community this conservative because it kind of… that

�Grand Valley protected this, really quite radical unit, in a very conservative
community. But even having the different collegiate units, in the end, was pretty
hard for Grand Valley.
[Tinsley]

It gave it a weird reputation and it couldn't afford that. And in the end, it needed to
get rid of it. So that's where I think we couldn't survive.

[Barbara]

Can you see that light? You're doing a good job knowing right when it ends.

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                    <text>William James College Interviews
GV016-16
Interviewer: Barbara Roos
Interviewee: Adrian Tinsley
Date: 1984
Part: 6 of 8

[Barbara]

Come on, camera! There you go. Nope, not yet. Sorry. I’m still getting in there, so
I don’t have your finger [in the shot] and you have an incorrect white balance.
Hey, you didn’t do it! There it goes. Alright. We’re actually rolling. We can go any
time.

[Tinsley]

Okay.

[Barbara]

We were talking about the legacy of the college as a partially conservative...

[Tinsley]

Okay. The legacy of the college… that's a really broad question. And I guess
what I'd say about that is that we were very early strugglers with some things that
now need to be struggled with less and are just a very normal part of the college
scene. The whole issue of professional programs, for example, we struggled
hard over that, both intellectually and personally within our college community.
And we were dealing with professional programs, I think, long before they
became such a very important feature of collegiate life. Nowadays it's a very rare
student who majors in anything other than a professional program. I think we
struggled with some issues around how you do liberal education in a professional
program context. I think we came to some really good solutions to that issue. And
that, you know, probably that hasn't filtered out as much into the larger
community as I wish it would. I think there are a lot of articles to be written there,
if everybody's looking for articles to write about the college. Because ninety
percent of the students who go to college major in professional programs now.
So, I think that's important. I think, for students, a lot of the things that we wanted
to do for students and with students exist in very mainstream colleges. You
know, all the way from independent study, to at least some credit no credit
grading, to certainly internships, to stress on projects related to community
needs. A lot of stuff that was very innovative when we did it is not particularly
innovative now and is pretty much an accepted thing now. So, I think we were
sort of the first wave of a lot of new stuff that was coming into higher education.
That kind of legacy certainly remains; what doesn't remain is a space, you know,
a local habitation in the name; a place where you can go to get something. I'm
not sure I how want to put this. Where you can go, where you don't have to worry
about what the meaning… I'm literally going to take this answer again. Let me
think about it a second. I've talked to some of the William James faculty the last
year or so, talked to Richard, to Margaret Proctor, to Barry. Barry, I think it was,

�has talked in an interesting way about what it means that the William James
faculty are mainstreamed now and they're part of the ordinary units at Grand
Valley. And they haven't just disappeared into those units. I mean, they have
begun, maybe this is grandiose, but they have begun a little bit to transform the
settings that they're in. I know, you know, some of the William James faculty are
doing that in the places where they are at Grand Valley. And what Barry said
about that was: "Well, you know, as long as we had each other to talk to you, we
didn't really have to talk to the other faculty." And we didn't very much. But the
place was poorer because we didn't. And that's right. So, there is some sense in
which I think Grand Valley as a whole is enriched by having William James
faculty in the mainstream. It's the same argument you might have if you were
talking about women's studies, you know.
[Tinsley]

To what extent do you want to have a special place that women can go and
totally deal with their own issues and one another, and deal with women's
courses? And to what extent do you want to say every course in the university
should contain topics of particular relevance to women and should address its
subject matter from the perspective of the new scholarship on women. What's
missing is that there is no place you can go to now where you go there, and you
know that all the people there share your values, and care about the same kinds
of things that you care about, and want to…

[Barbara]

Okay, [inaudible] we'll use the rest but [inaudible]. Okay?

[Tinsley]

Okay. No place you can really go where you know that everybody shares your
values and cares about what you care about. And I think having that space is
really important to our students and to our faculty.

[Barbara]

Why?

[Tinsley]

One answer is because it was there, and it was safe, and we didn't have to
create it every day. You had it. It gave you some identity. You didn't have to
always be creating it at all the time. It was a place where you could go, and it
gave you some identity because you shape it and it shapes you.

[Barbara]

But Barry said, in his interview, that… you know, he very much believes in this
notion of moving out into the mainstream, and that its working, and that in his
classes that he is still teaching in a Jamesian way. But he said: "Of course, I
don't know how long it's going to last. I don't know how long my energy can last
since it's not being infused anymore."

[Tinsley]

Yeah.

[Barbara]

Because that's what the places does.

�[Tinsley]

Yeah. If you concentrate the energy there and concentrate the people there, you
can go deeper, and you can replenish it. And that's what's missing because the
space isn't there. And I suppose all of us are looking to find some other similar
kinds of space out in our lives.

[Barbara]

Including the students?

[Tinsley]

Yeah.

[Barbara]

Would you put this in personal terms now. What does it mean to personally
spend the eight years you did, working very hard?

[Tinsley]

Well, I suppose… let me say what it meant to me professionally really first, rather
than talking first about what it meant personally. I went from William James to the
state… stop. Let me think about this another minute. I don't want to, you know,
falsely romanticize the period at William James; although, I personally do believe
it was a kind of Camelot. I do know that when I did go back and do administrative
work, I felt very strongly that I wasn't ready to go back to another campus. I
couldn't give my heart to another campus in the same way. And so, I took a job in
the central office of the state university system. And two things seem important to
me that I want to say. In Minnesota, I've been in a very mainstream
administrative situation. I work with seven separate state universities, with their
vice presidents, with their presidents, with strategic planning, with academic
policy. The people in that system are very good. They are very competent,
professionally. Minnesota, I would guess, is one of the very advanced states in
the union, in terms of not only its support for higher education, but the
professionalism with which their system is managed. And what I've learned is
that, although I work with an incredibly competent professional people,
professional values are not enough. The change for me was growing from a
place where, I mean heaven knows we did want to be competent, but there was
a real value beyond competence. There was a reason you wanted to be
competent. There was a reason you were doing what you were doing. So, by the
contrast that existed at William James, simply, the value of professional
competence is not enough. It doesn't keep you warm at night. It's too thin. I'm on
my way to go to Glassboro State College in New Jersey and I 'm now ready to be
back on the campus, and I am just really excited about going back to campus,
and, you know, and having a substantial leadership and management role on a
new campus now. But here's what I asked myself: I say, at William James,
everybody knew the meaning of what they were doing, so you could stand up
and so recite the litany, or you could have an external person to come in and
recite the litany and say this is what's important about what we're doing, this is
why it's important to work this hard, and this is why we're not cynical. Because
here's why we're doing what we're doing, and we really care about it. I go to

�Glassboro and I say, you know, what does the vice president do? The vice
president has got to find that thing that the institution is doing that's important and
put that in the public space and say: "This is what we're doing, and this is
important, and it's important that we're doing it and we're doing it well." And I
don't find it really easy to look at a Glassboro or at the state colleges in
Minnesota and say: "Here's what I can say about that. Here's why it's important
in the mid nineteen-eighties to be doing this." And I think that's a problem that we
are dealing with in higher education. It's hard to talk about why we're doing what
we're doing and why it's so important. And it's hard to get that into the public
space.

[Tinsley]

I remember when the colleges were about to be dissolved, and Robert said: "The
problem is that it's not that I don't want to work in CAS, I mean all those people
are fine, but I've got to have something I can believe in. I just can't work with
people who are cynical or who are apathetic." And so, what I'm saying is there
was no cynicism, or very little, or little apathy at William James. And how do you
find in a mainstream institution… how do you find, sort of, what you hang your
hat on for the meaning of it. And I think that's the question that we answered at
William James. And that's the question I want to try to answer now at a more
mainstream institution. I don't think finding that answers is going to be just real,
real easy.

[Barbara]

This is going off from that answer what we thought was important in James and
the reason that we would be energizing and uniting the kind of notions that we
had. Were they specific to the time? Are they not specific now? Why can't you
just take those notions to your new job?

[Tinsley]

No, they're not; they are specific to the time and let me talk a little bit about that
because I have thought a lot about this and I really believe it. In the midseventies, the agenda of the society was access and new opportunities. And it
was very important to open higher education up to women, and black people,
and minorities of all kinds, and older students, and people that hadn't been to
college before. And we put a lot of stress on that. And William James came out of
that milieu and that was very important to us. That is not a value in nineteen
eighty-five. In nineteen eighty-five, we talk about quality which is – depending on
how you look at it – is either a positive or negative from my perspective. I think
there is some genuinely good work being done under the rubric of upgrading
quality, but there's also some genuinely reactionary stuff being done under that
rubric. And the agenda for the institution is the economic development of its
region, science, and technology. The issues that the institutions are dealing with
are very different. In the mid-seventies, we had the federal government really
pushing access, really putting money into social services. Now we have science,
and math, and technology. I think there's no reason that we can't relate to this

�new agenda. But we haven't really thought about what it means for the values we
had in the seventies. So, I think the times are very, very different. And I think
that's why it's hard to find the spine of the institution in the eighties. I mean that's
what I learned from dealing with seven mainstream institutions in Minnesota and
the state legislature.
[Barbara]

Because my experience… I'm blinking again. My experience…

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                    <text>William James College Interviews
GV016-16
Interviewer: Barbara Roos
Interviewee: Adrian Tinsley
Date: 1984
Part: 7 of 8

[Barbara]

Oh, I always ask you to do it when the cameras are warming up.

[Tinsley]

Alright. Okay, let’s see a piece of white paper in front of my…

[Barbara]

Okay, it’s all wound up. It's not in really great shape, truth be told. I kept it,
though, for some reason… must have something I'm supposed to do.

[Tinsley]

Yeah, you’re supposed to tell them how to allocate your TIAA and your CREF.

[Barbara]

Oh yes, I think I'll just let it set. Thank you. I didn't really plan on that saving me
anyway. Alright, we are almost good. Best thing about your experience at
James? Is that a meaningful question?

[Tinsley]

Oh, I think it is. It's like a psych quiz question, but, yeah, the best thing about it is
that it had meaning – it really had meaning – and it was important. You felt like
you were using your life for something useful. I've always liked Marge Piercy's
poem "To Be of Use." And you felt like, at James, you weren't just treading water,
you were doing something very, very useful. And that was the best thing about it.
And you were also doing it in the company of like-minded people who were
friends, and intimates, and you really had a family that you were doing it with. So,
I think those two things were the best. We weren't the only institution that was
doing this; there were other colleges like us. FIPSE, the grantmaking agency in
Washington, was very much like us. A lot of little enclaves of people doing this
kind of work and it seemed real and important.

[Barbara]

If you…

[Tinsley]

And it was! Sorry.

[Barbara]

I'm being a bad interviewer. I'm really listening to you. I am listening to you, but I
was thinking of the next question. Which is: if you had to sum up the nature of
William James College in just one sentence, what would it be?

[Tinsley]

Well, I actually frequently did have to sum up the nature of William James
College in just one sentence for a variety of public relations and mission
definition purposes. But I don't remember any of the sentences and I'm sure

�none of them were very real. William James was a place where people talked
about real things and did real work, and really loved each other.
[Barbara]

No two people have said anything resembling the same thing. They just go with
the strength of the college and its weakness. And no one has said “synoptic”
either. [Laughter]

[Barbara]

Okay, there is one question around in my head and it’s something that I wrote
down in the beginning. It has to do with power, and you sort of talked about it
when you talked about CAS and all that sort of stuff. Couldn't have we been more
political? Even though we were small, dammit, some small things survive
because they are so political, because they do their own PR so as well. Do you
have any feelings about that?

[Tinsley]

Well, let me think about it. I am myself a structuralist, and I believe the structure
of Grand Valley – not the structure of William James – worked against us. In the
back of my head is the nagging thought: "Suppose we really had been more like
them?" Because I don't think you can fudge that, because you can't go around
pretending to be like somebody when you're really not. Suppose we're really
more like them, and our values, and what we want to do, but our values were sort
of more like theirs, would it have helped? My honest answer is no, it probably
wouldn't have. Because, structurally, we just had a very difficult situation to deal
with. But that's from my perspective. I sure did everything I could. And so, you
know, maybe it's in my interest to not be able to think of anything else that could
have happened.

[Barbara]

Richard talks about a siege mentality being very useful to us, energizing us. To
go out more would have destroyed some of the energy that helped us work as
well together as we did.

[Tinsley]

Yeah, I don't think going out more on the Grand Valley campus would've helped
us a lot. I really don't. Because it would've been that painful work of trying to
make friends with CAS. And they didn't really want… it takes two to make friends,
it really does. If we would've been able to get outside into the local community
even more than we did – and we did a lot – that might have helped.

[Barbara]

Do you want to do it again, quickly, the story about… the story happened
because you were talking about how we could not… how this could not work,
how we were at a disadvantage. One example was losing computers, and you
made that bit by the anecdote of the day we lost computers. And if you want to
retell it using euphemisms, fine by me. [Laughter]

[Tinsley]

[Laughter] I don't think so, the point of the story comes from the cast of

�characters. But I will trust you not to use it on the tape.
[Barbara]

What about first part, when you talk about them being from Holland? Is that
okay?

[Tinsley]

I think.

[Barbara]

I think so, too.

[Tinsley]

I think it’s okay.

[Barbara]

Is there anything to say here? [Inaudible]

[Tinsley]

Oh golly, well there probably is, but I can't think of it at moment.

[Barbara]

It’s tiring at this point.

[Tinsley]

It is, it is tiring. No, I mean I would like to talk on about it for another ten hours,
but I don't have anything in particular at the moment.

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                    <text>William James College Interviews
GV016-16
Interviewer: Barbara Roos
Interviewee: Adrian Tinsley
Date: 1984
Part: 8 of 8

[Barbara]

The question is: what is the quality of the education that we were giving
students?

[Tinsley]

Okay, ready for me to go on that?

[Barbara]

Yep, anytime.

[Tinsley]

Okay. The issue of quality was a real one during the life of the college. I think
looking back, I would have to say that the quality of what we did was variable.
For the good students, what we gave them was breathtakingly good, I think. We
gave them access to superb faculty. We gave them access to sort of a panoply of
resources that they would not have gotten in a conventional undergraduate
education. The students that were less good could skate and that was a problem
– and I think we did have some students skate. It seems to me that the issue of
quality was very tied into the real ethos in the college on individual energy and
individual rights. I think the college always leaned towards wanting the individual
to express himself or herself. It was difficult in the college to get a clear sense of
institutional norms; at least, those norms could not be imposed easily by
administrators. They needed to develop in kind of a more organic fashion and I
think that was a problem sometimes. For example, in terms of our beliefs about
appropriate curriculum, appropriate grading standards, and the like. As the years
went on, I think we had a lot more homogeneity about those things. But part of
what I did as Dean was endlessly negotiate with faculty. There was no sense that
I had any divine right to set standards or, indeed, to set policy. It was a matter of
endless negotiation in a milieu where, as I said earlier, the ethos was on the
individual's right rather than the institution’s necessity. Looking back, I guess, as
Dean of the College, if there is an area where I should have paid more attention,
it is… no, let me stop that and you come back to this, okay.

[Barbara]

Let me change the shot, then you can do it. That's fine.

[Tinsley]

As the college matured, we began to get a curriculum we were pretty comfortable
with. I think there were still, probably, some issues around supervision of
internships and independent studies. There were still some course titles that
remained as symbolic battles between the faculty and the administration. I think
in another two, three, four years we would probably have been on a cycle of

�independent curricular reviews with outside consultants. In the end, in terms of
the curriculum itself, I felt very good about it. I felt it was a strong curriculum. In
terms of the standards of the college, in terms of what happened to individual
students, I think we probably always let students skate a bit too much. I think we
paid for that very heavily.
[Barbara]

Say that last sentence again because I screwed up. So just the last sentence: "In
the end..." is a good time to start.

[Tinsley]

In the end… about the curriculum?

[Barbara]

No, just in the end about individual students.

[Tinsley]

In the end, I think we always erred a bit on the side of putting out a hand to
individual students to help them through. And sometimes, in some places in the
college, we did that too much; we weren't tough enough. We paid for that, I think,
very, very heavily. That's something I won't do again; it was too costly for the
college.

[Barbara]

Finito?

[Tinsley]

Finito.

[Barbara]

Good.

[Tinsley]

I guess the last thing I'd like to say about the college – after having done some
thinking about it in connection with this taping – seems to me that most of us, or
all of us, brought to the college a desire that our work have real meaning; that our
work bring meaning into our lives; that our work perhaps be the significant source
of meaning in our lives. We wanted a kind of a texture in our work; a kind of
depth in our work. Clearly not some kind of situation where we did our work and
did home in our real lives outside of work. Our real lives – our most important
lives – were in our work in the college. Sometimes this provided some stress and
strain. We made demands that our work give meaning that I think aren't very
unusual in American work life. And I think for most of us, the experience of
having the college no longer present is that it's forced us to say: "In whatever
work life I'm in now, how can I make it have that kind of meaning for me?" That's
certainly true for me. One of the things that is very interesting to me as I look at
what the faculty are doing now – and because of my position, I knew the faculty
better than I knew most students – it seems to me that there's almost a little
explosion of good work going on: research, writing, work products coming out of
people that were on the William James faculty or interesting jobs. Almost as if
some of our energy that was being used to make the college work is going right
into creative work products. And I see that as coming out of this desire to find

�meaning in one's work that I think is so important and that I think was really
critical to us at the college. Sorry I trailed off on that.
[Barbara]

[Laughter] I'm tempted, I won't do it, I'm tempted…

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                <text>Portrait photographs</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719"&gt;Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/"&gt;In Copyright&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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        <src>https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f3b547e101b7b43a9151518f280cbcef.jpg</src>
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            <element elementId="50">
              <name>Title</name>
              <description>A name given to the resource</description>
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                  <text>Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection</text>
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              <name>Creator</name>
              <description>An entity primarily responsible for making the resource</description>
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                  <text>Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman) </text>
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                  <text>Termaat, Peter N.</text>
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              <name>Description</name>
              <description>An account of the resource</description>
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                  <text>Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar.&#13;
&#13;
Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II.</text>
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              <name>Date</name>
              <description>A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource</description>
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                  <text>1869 - 2012</text>
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              </elementTextContainer>
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              <name>Source</name>
              <description>A related resource from which the described resource is derived</description>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719"&gt;Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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              <name>Subject</name>
              <description>The topic of the resource</description>
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                  <text>Netherlands</text>
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                  <text>Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945 </text>
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                  <text>World War, 1939-1945</text>
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                  <text>World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands</text>
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                  <text>Dutch</text>
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                  <text>Dutch Americans</text>
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              <name>Publisher</name>
              <description>An entity responsible for making the resource available</description>
              <elementTextContainer>
                <elementText elementTextId="810184">
                  <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections &amp; University Archives</text>
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              </elementTextContainer>
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              <name>Identifier</name>
              <description>An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context</description>
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                  <text>RHC-144</text>
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              <name>Format</name>
              <description>The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource</description>
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                  <text>Text</text>
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                  <text>Image</text>
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              <name>Type</name>
              <description>The nature or genre of the resource</description>
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                  <text>application/pdf</text>
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                  <text>image/jpeg</text>
                </elementText>
              </elementTextContainer>
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              <name>Language</name>
              <description>A language of the resource</description>
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                  <text>eng</text>
                </elementText>
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                  <text>nl</text>
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        <name>Dublin Core</name>
        <description>The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.</description>
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            <name>Identifier</name>
            <description>An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context</description>
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                <text>RHC-144_Termaat_PHOT_1940-ABT-Keith-Termaat-recto-img127</text>
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            <name>Creator</name>
            <description>An entity primarily responsible for making the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
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                <text>Unknown</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="40">
            <name>Date</name>
            <description>A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource</description>
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                <text>1940</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
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          <element elementId="50">
            <name>Title</name>
            <description>A name given to the resource</description>
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                <text>Adriana B. Termaat and Keith Termaat, 1940</text>
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            <name>Description</name>
            <description>An account of the resource</description>
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                <text>Portrait photograph of Adriana B. Termaat and her son Cornelis Barend (Keith) Termaat.</text>
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          <element elementId="49">
            <name>Subject</name>
            <description>The topic of the resource</description>
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                <text>Dutch</text>
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                <text>Group portraits</text>
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            <name>Source</name>
            <description>A related resource from which the described resource is derived</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="810776">
                <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719"&gt;Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
              </elementText>
            </elementTextContainer>
          </element>
          <element elementId="47">
            <name>Rights</name>
            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="810778">
                <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/"&gt;In Copyright&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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            </elementTextContainer>
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            <name>Type</name>
            <description>The nature or genre of the resource</description>
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                <text>Image</text>
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            <name>Format</name>
            <description>The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource</description>
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                <text>image/jpeg</text>
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            <name>Publisher</name>
            <description>An entity responsible for making the resource available</description>
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                <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives</text>
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