168
24
26018
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/73bdd95ef2c738a14c53087736566380.jpg
4ad25e4059a5b329587d7a98449fd38a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023
Description
An account of the resource
Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183).
Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023.
Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1960-2011
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copyright
Subject
The topic of the resource
Photographs
Photography -- United States
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-183
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Image
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image/jpeg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-183_M232-0014a
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Gilbert, Douglas R.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1972-06/1972-08
Title
A name given to the resource
Conwy Castle, Wales
Description
An account of the resource
Black and white photograph featuring an exterior view of Conwy Castle, located in Conwy in North Wales and built between 1283 and 1287. In the photograph, a group of boats are gathered on the shore and in the waters of the River Conwy in front of the castle in the distance. Scanned from the negative.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Castles Wales
Conwy (Wales)
Boats--Wales
Rowboats--Wales
Black-and-white photography
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1970s
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6fda3a57c13e6df4fb9759e6766e995e.jpg
cdd191e7dff581bfcda5187d551d0fc9
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grand Valley State University Photographs
Subject
The topic of the resource
Aerial photographs
Universities and colleges
Michigan
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Allendale (Mich.)
Building
Facilities
Dormitories
Students
Events
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
Description
An account of the resource
People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
News & Information Services. University Communications
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960s-2000s
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Local Subject
Subject headings specific to a particular image collection
1990s
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01_UAPhotos_000450
Title
A name given to the resource
Cook Carillon Tower
Description
An account of the resource
Cook Carillon on the Allendale campus.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
Michigan
Allendale (Mich.)
Universities and colleges
Facilities
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
color photo
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/378dc19bd9b1c3a64dbe09c866863fe6.jpg
7c6d7fae0ae49e8287bf7911358480d0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grand Valley State University Photographs
Subject
The topic of the resource
Aerial photographs
Universities and colleges
Michigan
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Allendale (Mich.)
Building
Facilities
Dormitories
Students
Events
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
Description
An account of the resource
People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
News & Information Services. University Communications
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960s-2000s
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Local Subject
Subject headings specific to a particular image collection
1990s
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01_UAPhotos_000364
Title
A name given to the resource
Cook Carillon Tower and Student Services building
Description
An account of the resource
Cook Carillon Tower and Student Services building.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
Michigan
Allendale (Mich.)
Universities and colleges
Facilities
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
color photo
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1f5ce2a2dc56ad7f01bde26f9b73a9a6.jpg
bc0fc84b7709d6f1c022515a64f37072
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grand Valley State University Photographs
Subject
The topic of the resource
Aerial photographs
Universities and colleges
Michigan
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Allendale (Mich.)
Building
Facilities
Dormitories
Students
Events
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
Description
An account of the resource
People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
News & Information Services. University Communications
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960s-2000s
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Local Subject
Subject headings specific to a particular image collection
1990s
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01_UAPhotos_000436
Title
A name given to the resource
Cook Carillon tower dedication
Description
An account of the resource
Mr. and Mrs. Peter Cook at dedication of the Cook Carillon tower on the Grand Rapids campus.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
Michigan
Universities and colleges
Facilities
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
black and white photo
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a74c3c9fedebceea3ab0e273a9ae7ce1.jpg
239fb59cc6e850433ac50cbcdc79ad84
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grand Valley State University Photographs
Subject
The topic of the resource
Aerial photographs
Universities and colleges
Michigan
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Allendale (Mich.)
Building
Facilities
Dormitories
Students
Events
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
Description
An account of the resource
People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
News & Information Services. University Communications
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960s-2000s
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Local Subject
Subject headings specific to a particular image collection
1990s
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01_UAPhotos_000445
Title
A name given to the resource
Cook Carillon Tower numbers being added to the clock
Description
An account of the resource
Cook Carillon Tower numbers added to the clock.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
Michigan
Allendale (Mich.)
Universities and colleges
Facilities
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
color photo
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fdd21808d846116a1d47a61d7783f48a.jpg
a8b7d80b55cc708ac23dcaef1d5b0d5e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grand Valley State University Photographs
Subject
The topic of the resource
Aerial photographs
Universities and colleges
Michigan
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Allendale (Mich.)
Building
Facilities
Dormitories
Students
Events
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
Description
An account of the resource
People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
News & Information Services. University Communications
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960s-2000s
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Local Subject
Subject headings specific to a particular image collection
1990s
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01_UAPhotos_000444
Title
A name given to the resource
Cook Carillon Tower under construction
Description
An account of the resource
Cook Carillon Tower under construction
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
Michigan
Allendale (Mich.)
Universities and colleges
Facilities
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
color photo
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fcabe2d484298d003f32c17bc395d7fb.jpg
8839d039c256b075329d8c9ddb062b93
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grand Valley State University Photographs
Subject
The topic of the resource
Aerial photographs
Universities and colleges
Michigan
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Allendale (Mich.)
Building
Facilities
Dormitories
Students
Events
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
Description
An account of the resource
People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
News & Information Services. University Communications
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960s-2000s
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Local Subject
Subject headings specific to a particular image collection
1990s
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01_UAPhotos_000446
Title
A name given to the resource
Cook Carillon Tower under construction
Description
An account of the resource
Cook Carillon Tower under construction
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
Michigan
Allendale (Mich.)
Universities and colleges
Facilities
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
color photo
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5a85403a16bbca6ab384f63075e8f26a.jpg
59f40bc25e2c5bbd6c6993e30ffa69ca
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grand Valley State University Photographs
Subject
The topic of the resource
Aerial photographs
Universities and colleges
Michigan
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Allendale (Mich.)
Building
Facilities
Dormitories
Students
Events
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
Description
An account of the resource
People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
News & Information Services. University Communications
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960s-2000s
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01_UAPhotos_000478
Title
A name given to the resource
Cook DeVos Center for Health Sciences groundbreaking
Description
An account of the resource
Cook DeVos Center of Health Sciences groundbreaking.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
Michigan
Allendale (Mich.)
Universities and colleges
Ground breaking ceremonies
Facilities
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
color photo
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3f99b88a0f41d588d4c2dae8a1ce1f3a.jpg
1d7e10ee56bd932fcd7df0062ceb00b0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grand Valley State University Photographs
Subject
The topic of the resource
Aerial photographs
Universities and colleges
Michigan
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Allendale (Mich.)
Building
Facilities
Dormitories
Students
Events
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
Description
An account of the resource
People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
News & Information Services. University Communications
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960s-2000s
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Local Subject
Subject headings specific to a particular image collection
2000s
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01_UAPhotos_000479
Title
A name given to the resource
Cook DeVos Center for Health Sciences groundbreaking
Description
An account of the resource
Cook DeVos Center for Health Sciences groundbreaking.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
Michigan
Allendale (Mich.)
Universities and colleges
Ground breaking ceremonies
Facilities
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
color photo
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/af72446e839c99713cc2dbebc233c338.jpg
ee692b58a81b96a0aa1f5b26bbb9f22a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grand Valley State University Photographs
Subject
The topic of the resource
Aerial photographs
Universities and colleges
Michigan
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Allendale (Mich.)
Building
Facilities
Dormitories
Students
Events
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
Description
An account of the resource
People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
News & Information Services. University Communications
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960s-2000s
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Local Subject
Subject headings specific to a particular image collection
2000s
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01_UAPhotos_000487
Title
A name given to the resource
Cook DeVos dedication
Description
An account of the resource
President Mark Murray, Rep. Michael Sak and Peter Cook at Cook DeVos Center for Health Sciences dedication.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
Grand Valley State College
Michigan
Allendale (Mich.)
Universities and colleges
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
color photo
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c254780b614bda271b41eeca4074002e.jpg
c2bc80f51d3cd82ec5fe1ca658be0639
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grand Valley State University Photographs
Subject
The topic of the resource
Aerial photographs
Universities and colleges
Michigan
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Allendale (Mich.)
Building
Facilities
Dormitories
Students
Events
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
Description
An account of the resource
People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
News & Information Services. University Communications
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960s-2000s
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Local Subject
Subject headings specific to a particular image collection
2000s
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01_UAPhotos_000491
Title
A name given to the resource
Cook-DeVos Center for Health Sciences under construction
Description
An account of the resource
Cook-DeVos Center for Health Sciences under construction.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
Michigan
Allendale (Mich.)
Universities and colleges
Facilities
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
color photo
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6effe1bd0798351c7aa61785ff54d5a0.jpg
1e41c6470ac6a8a9802390c04d89dcb4
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grand Valley State University Photographs
Subject
The topic of the resource
Aerial photographs
Universities and colleges
Michigan
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Allendale (Mich.)
Building
Facilities
Dormitories
Students
Events
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
Description
An account of the resource
People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
News & Information Services. University Communications
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960s-2000s
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Local Subject
Subject headings specific to a particular image collection
1990s
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01_UAPhotos_000383
Title
A name given to the resource
Cook-Dewitt and Student Services centers
Description
An account of the resource
Cook-Dewitt and Student Services centers.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
Michigan
Allendale (Mich.)
Universities and colleges
Facilities
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
black and white photo
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/27deaba44a89a8ff9ffa693436182179.jpg
133a2288c931bc8dbd0a25e8c43a0e03
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grand Valley State University Photographs
Subject
The topic of the resource
Aerial photographs
Universities and colleges
Michigan
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Allendale (Mich.)
Building
Facilities
Dormitories
Students
Events
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
Description
An account of the resource
People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
News & Information Services. University Communications
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960s-2000s
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Local Subject
Subject headings specific to a particular image collection
Cook-DeWitt Center
1990s
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01_UAPhotos_000010
Title
A name given to the resource
Cook-DeWitt Center. Building construction
Description
An account of the resource
Construction of the Cook-DeWitt Center, home of the campus ministry and a 260 seat auditorium, ca. 1990.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
Michigan
Allendale (Mich.)
Universities and colleges
Construction
Facilities
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1990
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
black and white photo
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e042bd993505e259fa1259d02c38a2c3.jpg
a0280397e772056226907bb531152b4d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grand Valley State University Photographs
Subject
The topic of the resource
Aerial photographs
Universities and colleges
Michigan
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Allendale (Mich.)
Building
Facilities
Dormitories
Students
Events
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
Description
An account of the resource
People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
News & Information Services. University Communications
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960s-2000s
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Local Subject
Subject headings specific to a particular image collection
Cook-DeWitt Center
1990s
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01_UAPhotos_000009
Title
A name given to the resource
Cook-DeWitt Center. Reuter pipe organ
Description
An account of the resource
Man playing 26-rank Reuter pipe organ in the Cook-DeWitt Center, home of the campus ministry and a 230 seat auditorium, ca. 1992.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
Michigan
Allendale (Mich.)
Universities and colleges
Facilities
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1992
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
black and white photo
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1bbc39994668fee5953b2f663a8c1a98.jpg
639fe4c10db63d2a66cbb3bed415bfed
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grand Valley State University Photographs
Subject
The topic of the resource
Aerial photographs
Universities and colleges
Michigan
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Allendale (Mich.)
Building
Facilities
Dormitories
Students
Events
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
Description
An account of the resource
People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
News & Information Services. University Communications
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960s-2000s
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Local Subject
Subject headings specific to a particular image collection
1990s
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01_UAPhotos_000437
Title
A name given to the resource
Cook-DeWitt Center. Reuter pipe organ
Description
An account of the resource
26-rank Reuter pipe organ in the Cook-DeWitt Center, home of the campus ministry and a 230 seat auditorium, ca. 1992.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
Michigan
Allendale (Mich.)
Universities and colleges
Facilities
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
black and white photo
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c06c8ce94e4eb6efae8934af8ca00afa.mp4
26147b7326ea404e7281dd82aaeae574
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/19bdabf6caa0470a9272ac9f450eb7f4.pdf
520195aee97472c483e9b6466582af34
PDF Text
Text
ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW
DORIS COOK
Born: Muskegon, Michigan June 23, 1931
Resides: Muskegon
Interviewed by: Frank Boring, GVSU Veterans History Project,
Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, April 18, 2013
Interviewer: Could we start with your name, and where and when were you born?
My name is Doris Cook and I was born in Muskegon, Michigan on June 23rd, 1931.
Interviewer: What were your early days like? You were born in Muskegon and
what was your family? Tell us about your family and where you were living.
Well, I’m a member of a twelve children family and we lived in the suburbs and we
played sports all our life. My dad was into baseball, so the rest of us just got into sports
naturally.
Interviewer: What did your father do for a living?
He was a pattern maker.
Interviewer: So, he was the bread winner, so to speak, and your mother was a home
maker? 1:03
Yes
Interviewer: Where were you in the chain of twelve children?
I was fourth from the oldest.
Interviewer: What was your early schooling like?
Well, we went to like country schools and the school went through eighth grade and then
we went on to junior high and high school.
1
�Interviewer: In your early days of schooling though, did you have to walk to the
school, and what did the school look like?
Well, it was kind of modern like, but we did walk most of the time. There was a bus, but
we lived about four blocks from the school, so they preferred we walked.
Interviewer: You had a sister that was a couple of years older than you?
Yes
Interviewer: Did you go to school together?
Yes
Interviewer: In the early days I know—I‟m an only brat myself, but how did you
get along with your brothers and your sisters?
Oh, just fine, we played together all the time. 2:01
Interviewer: Okay, so your older sister though, what was your relationship with
her?
Well, it was good and we played on teams together.
Interviewer: Well let‟s, before we get into that, where did you first get introduced
to baseball?
I guess I was such a young age, it was sand lot ball back then with all my brothers and all
the neighbors. We played mostly with boys. At that time girls sports weren’t really
popular, so we were playing with the boys most of the time.
Interviewer: Okay, this is—you say it‟s a sand lot, so did you set up your own bases,
or were they already there?
No, we had to make our own in a field out behind the house, we did our own.
2
�Interviewer: This may sound like a stupid question, but how did you even know
how to play baseball?
Well, I guess maybe, my dad taught us. 3:00 Then it comes naturally, we didn’t seem to
have a problem with it. I had two brothers older than myself and we all just—I guess we
learned from my dad probably.
Interviewer: Was there any adult supervision, like umpires or anything like that,
while you were playing?
No
Interviewer: So you guys were just playing together and divided up into teams and
just played?
Yeah
Interviewer: When you were in school learning English and math and all that, did
you have any idea what you wanted to do with yourself?
No, I didn’t have that in mind.
Interviewer: Okay, what would be the normal route for a girl of your age at that
time? For you to go—where would you go after you got out of school for example?
Well, back then there weren’t a lot of careers for women, so you didn’t talk about careers.
Maybe you thought you’d become a wife and a mother and you just didn’t get into where
your life was leading. 4:06
Interviewer: But, you brothers, of course, were thinking in terms of what they were
going to do, have jobs or things like that, but in your mind it was just a matter of
getting through school and then what are you going to do at the end of school,
maybe get married?
3
�Right, we didn’t think about that.
Interviewer: Where did the idea of playing baseball in a more organized way come
about in your life?
Well, I was probably about twelve years old and my sister, of course, was a couple years
older and we had city softball for women. There was nothing in the high schools, they
had local city [league], and most of those women were older, of course. School teachers,
physical education teachers, and I think I was twelve when I started. 5:00 Donna played
ahead of me like that before she turned to pro.
Interviewer: Well, let‟s not jump ahead too quickly here. How did Donna get
involved with—since she was ahead of you, how did she get involved in this league?
Well, because of playing locally and all your local advertisements and publicity and it
was a known fact that she was a good ball player, so then they started scouting that, you
know.
Interviewer: So, they actually had scouts going out to these lots and watching?
Well, I can’t say that, I think they got it from the newspaper and word of mouth in town
where you’re popular, you know.
Interviewer: So, you‟re two years behind and here she is going to play, how did that
make you feel? Did that motivate you or did you get jealous? What was your
reaction?
I think I thought, “Well, I’ll do the same thing”, but her time came along first and that
didn’t bother me. 6:04
I was still in high school; she started playing, and my dad and
my mother, the family, supported it, so I just kind of followed along with that.
4
�Interviewer: Did you talk about that at the family dinners and things like that, that
she was playing and that you wanted to play next? Did they have any idea that you
were going to follow in her footsteps?
I don’t know that we discussed it. I think it just came naturally. I was doing the same
thing she had done, playing with the city softball, local and it just was like I just followed
her.
Interviewer: This is going to sound like a stupid question, but why baseball? Girls
didn‟t play baseball that much and certainly not in the professional leagues, but
why were you interested in baseball?
Well, we really played a lot of sports, and I played a lot of basketball and that was also
city. When I say city, we came to Grand Rapids, Holland, Zeeland and played teams
from those cities, so we were really into all sports. 7:08 At that time I didn’t start
bowling yet. I was busy with baseball, basketball and volleyball, but you didn’t have that
stuff in high school, there wasn’t enough of that going on for girls, so you had to go and
look outside of school.
Interviewer: You say your parents were supportive. Did your dad talk to you and
give you hints on how to play, or at that time were you playing pretty well?
Oh, he gave us a lot of hints. In fact one thing he did, he’d take a new glove and take the
strings out of it and remove some of the padding, because they were too thick and stiff,
and he’d loosen that up for you and put it back together, so you could catch better with it.
Interviewer: You know, I‟ve talked to some of the women who had difficulty getting
equipment and things like that, because their parents didn‟t have the money. 8:00
5
�Your father did pretty well, I mean, he was able to buy you the equipment you
needed?
I think so, and between all the kids somebody had a ball and a bat. It might not be
something like a bat for yourself, it’s one that everybody uses. We had our own, but
other kids brought bats and balls and gloves and stuff too.
Interviewer: Okay, this is a period of time in America where things economically
were pretty bad. This is the depression era and how did you and your family
survive through that? How did you fare?
We did very well, and at that time there was probably eight of us, because some came
along later, but we never had to go for help, my dad worked a lot of hours, worked every
day, never took a vacation and we were well enough off. 9:00
Interviewer: First of all, Doris was always ahead right? She was always the kind of
person that got involved in something and then you kind of followed in her tracks.
When did you first, or your family first hear about this professional—women
playing baseball, what‟s that all about?
We were lucky--they came to Muskegon with a team, and in 1946 one of the teams came
into Muskegon, so we just fell into it. They started playing in Muskegon at Marsh Field
and my family started going to the ball games. Donna was still in high school, then
graduated and went right into baseball.
Interviewer: What was the process, maybe you don‟t know the detail, but I want to
know the details of how you got in, but how did Donna get in? You went to the ball
games, saw that there was this professional league and did you see it in the papers
too, was it on the radio, how else did you know about this league? 10:00
6
�Well, I guess we saw the sports page and the ball games, and our whole family went to
the games. Then Donna tried out, of course, you didn’t have to go anywhere else to try
out, you know, they watched her play right there in Muskegon, so it was easy.
Interviewer: So, she gets in and what about you?
Well, I’m still in school, of course, I’m a couple years behind her, and while I’m a senior
in high school they were going to have tryouts in Chicago. So, I got out of school and
went to Chicago for a week.
Interviewer: How did you get there?
On the bus
Interviewer: So, your dad is very supportive of this, because somebody had to have
some money to get on the bus.
Right, and he was all for it.
Interviewer: There were no worries, at this point, about you going off by yourself to
Chicago? Had you been to Chicago before?
No, I don’t know if I’d ever been to Grand Rapids, and you just didn’t travel back then
like that. 11:05 We had a car, but you just didn’t travel, and I don’t think they were
afraid for me. I think they thought it was well supervised.
Interviewer: How old were you at that point?
Seventeen
Interviewer: I know that was a long time ago, but what were your feelings as you
got on that bus to go to Chicago?
You know, I had mixed feelings about it. I didn’t know if I wanted to be away from
home or get on a bus and to all these strange towns, even just getting to Chicago. But I
7
�think that once I got there they kept you so busy with the training, and all the girls, you
just didn’t think about it after that.
Interviewer: you had to go through a tryout though didn‟t you?
Yes
Interviewer: Where was that?
In Chicago
Interviewer: You get on the bus, you don‟t know if you‟re going to make the team,
right?
No
Interviewer: But Donna already has? 12:02
Donna is already in the league.
Interviewer: I‟m just trying to think, younger sister getting on the bus, going to
tryout, sister‟s already in there, you had to have some feelings about worrying about
it, are you going to miss her now?
I think you do, but I think I had enough confidence that I knew I could play as well as the
next one, and I didn’t have a problem with that. So, we trained and after the week was
over I knew I’d made it, but I had to go back to school and graduate.
Interviewer: Before we jump into that, you say it was a whole week?
Yes
Interviewer: Walk us through, basically, the whole week. You arrive in Chicago.
Okay, is there somebody there to meet you?
Yes
Interviewer: So, tell us about that.
8
�The hotel arrangements are all made and all the girls are staying at the same place. then
you just start right out early in the morning training all day long.
Interviewer: You met these girls, where were they from? 13:02
They were from all over.
Interviewer: Well, that had to be new. You grew up in a small town and had not
even been to Chicago and suddenly there are all these girls.
Ah huh, and they were from all over. I knew nobody, but it’s easy, you’re busy playing
ball and it doesn’t seem like it was a problem.
Interviewer: In the movie, A League of Their Own, they really made it a point to
show that there were New York girls and they kind of had an attitude and there
were other girls that were more Midwest and they were—was it anything like that to
you in terms of different parts of the country?
Well, it was different-- the fact that we were in Chicago and the manager was from
Chicago and coached their other teams, and he had a lot of his own girls there, so they
were like they had their foot in the door. They knew him and they had played together,
some of them, so it wasn’t a problem for them. 14:04
Interviewer: So, your first day there, you arrive in Chicago. I take it you didn‟t
train that day; you probably had a day off before you started?
Probably, depending on what time I got there.
Interviewer: So, first day of training what am I seeing? There‟s a—you see a
baseball diamond, right? What am I seeing when you walk onto the field?
Lots of girls out there, running, throwing, batting. A lot of it was running, throwing and
catching; a lot of practice and training in catching.
9
�Interviewer: And there were a lot of individual—I take it there were men standing
around watching every step to see how you threw, how you hit the ball and that sort
of thing.
Right
Interviewer: There‟s a scene in the movie where Geena Davis walks out and she
sees all those girls out there. That‟s pretty much the way it looked right? Is that
right?
Yes, ah huh, that’s pretty true.
Interviewer: What were you thinking during that week? You said you had
confidence going in, but you saw all these other girls, and you probably saw some of
them were pretty good and maybe others you were thinking, “Well, you‟re not as
good as you think you are”. What was going through your mind that week? 15:14
Well, I don’t think I ever thought I wasn’t going to make it. I just think I had enough
confidence, and thought I knew how to play ball well enough that I didn’t know there
was any way they wouldn’t pick me. I guess it must have been confidence.
Interviewer: At the end of the week, how did they let you know, or let the other
girls know, that you made a team? How did you find out?
Well, I don’t recall that, I just don’t remember. I do know that I had to leave to come
back to Muskegon, so they told me before I left.
Interviewer: Did you know what team you were going to be playing for?
Yes
Interviewer: What team was that?
The “Springfield Sallies” 16:00
10
�Interviewer: Now, Springfield is quite a distance away from Muskegon, in fact it‟s
not even in Michigan. What was your reaction to that?
Well, I wasn’t familiar with the Chicago team either, so as far as the names of the teams,
or the states, I guess it didn’t mean a whole lot to me, I just knew I was on that team.
Interviewer: Now, you go back home by bus and what was the reaction of your
family when you told them you made the team?
They were happy, and it’s like they knew I would. I don’t know that anyone thought I
wouldn’t make it.
Interviewer: That‟s wonderful—do you think part of it is because your sister came
ahead of you and she was making it and you had shown that you—your father was
confident that you were a good ball player?
Yes, and we had a lot of write-ups in the paper, publicity, where they made it known we
were good ball players. 17:00
Interviewer: I know that the media does things like that. Were there any items
regarding the fact there are two sisters who had made it into the ball team?
Well, with the league I don’t know that it did. Locally, with the city it did, because they
were aware of it, so that made a lot difference in Muskegon.
Interviewer: You graduate, now what happens?
Like the next day, I had to get on a bus and go down to Evanston, Illinois. The teams left
Chicago and started on the road and I met them down in Evanston.
Interviewer: Let me get an idea—now you lived this and I have read about this, but
I want to get to the details of how you were actually told where you‟re going, or did
11
�you just not know where you were going? You arrive now in Evanston and you‟re
going to play for a season, right?
Yes 18:03
Interviewer: Did they sit down with you and the whole team and say, “Okay,
Tuesday you‟re going to be here and Wednesday you‟re going to be there playing
this”. Did you have any idea where you were going and who you were playing?
Not really, you had a business manager, a coach, and two chaperones for each team. The
business manager went out ahead and scheduled the games. We’d play a game, get on
the bus, and go to the next town. We might know where we’re going, but it didn’t mean
anything to us, we didn’t know these towns, we just went wherever they said, “We’re
leaving now and going to the next town”.
Interviewer: Now, this is 19---you said 1945 was when you first—
No, mine was 1949
Interviewer: 1949 was when you got in the professional league?
Yes
Interviewer: Okay, the war is already over with, the league has actually been going
on through the war, so it‟s already established, it‟s not like it‟s a brand new thing,
and it‟s been around a few years. 19:06
Yes
Interviewer: Now, you joined a team that had experienced girls already playing and
then some rookies like you. Tell me about being a rookie.
Well, there were enough rookies that you know, but they made you know you were a
rookie. But we didn’t have a lot of the girls that had been in the league too long. It might
12
�have been half and half. There were girls they sent on down to the tour team then from
the teams they were playing with. See, Springfield was a team that was in the league and
then they dropped the franchise in that city, that’s how it became Springfield, because
there was a team there at one time and they had the uniforms and the whole bit.[The
Sallies and another team were barnstorming teams made up mostly of new and younger
players that traveled together and played each other as a sort of minor league for the
AAGPBL]
Interviewer: So, you‟re joined up with this team, you‟re one of the rookies, and tell
us about your first game. 20:06
Oh boy, I don’t know if I can remember that. I played left field, I was the left fielder, and
nothing stands out as far as-Interviewer: Were you first string?
Yes
Interviewer: Wow, so even though you‟re a rookie, they had you starting?
Oh yeah
Interviewer: Wow, so what‟s the first game you remember?
Boy, I can’t tell you that, nothing stands out.
Interviewer: When you‟re traveling like that it must be almost like a blur. You‟re
playing a game, and you‟re playing another game. Let‟s talk about how that works,
alright? You get on a bus, and it‟s a bus with all the girls and you‟ve got your
chaperone on there. When did you first meet the chaperone? When you first
started out, when you first came in there?
Probably when the tour started
13
�Interviewer: What was her responsibility?
She had to make sure we were all in our rooms at night and everybody was safe. 21:06
didn’t get in any trouble, and if there were injuries she also served like a nurse, giving
rubdowns for “Charlie horses”, and she really had a big responsibility. See, both teams
traveled together on the same bus.
Interviewer: Two opposing teams?
Yes, there were like thirty-five of us. There was the manager and two chaperones, and
then girls from both teams, and the business manager.
Interviewer: In the early days, as you well know, there was a chaperone and also,
the chaperone was making sure you looked right and you didn‟t do this and that.
But, you didn‟t have to go through any kind of charm school did you?
No, they did earlier, but at that point they did not have a charm school.
Interviewer: But, did they still—in particular the chaperone, did she make sure
that when you were out in public you had to sit a certain way? 22:06
We had to be sure we were in skirts at all times. Never shorts, jeans, or slacks, those
were not allowed, even riding on the bus. When you were on the bus you could put
shorts on, but if you got off the bus you had to put your skirt back on.
Interviewer: What about things like make-up and things like that?
Well, they didn’t talk about make-up a lot. They worried about the hair, having the hair a
certain length, and making sure everybody was clean and neat.
Interviewer: And that was the chaperones‟ responsibility, so if you got out of bed
one early morning and came out and your hair was disheveled, she could actually
walkup to you and say, “Comb your hair”, or something like that?
14
�That’s right, yes
Interviewer: Now, the manager, of course, was in charge of what goes on, on the
field. Your first manager, how was your relationship with your first manager?
23:01
It was very good, a very nice man, and then he coached that team the first year. I went on
tour two years, but then later he went into the league and I played for him in Kalamazoo.
Interviewer: Managers, of course, are different because they have different
personalities, they have skills and what not. There are some managers, for example
in the movie; Tom Hanks was kind of angry and yelling at the people. What was
your manager like in terms of how he reacted to you and to the team?
He was very mild mannered, and a very nice guy. He liked to laugh and have fun. He
kept everything under control and I won’t say he wasn’t stern, but he was not mean or-he wasn’t good at yelling at the girls. He could make them understand without getting
irate.
Interviewer: What was his background? 24:01
I think all he did was coach in Chicago. He coached girl’s teams in Chicago.
Interviewer: Some of those guys were pro baseball players.
Right, and he didn’t happen to be one of those. Most of those guys were former major
league ball players.
Interviewer: So, I want to get an idea of the traveling time. You have to go from
city to city to play and you have both teams in the bus. What was it like to be on the
bus?
15
�Well, we had a lot of fun, and when the season goes along, sometimes you get kind of
irritated. There’s a lot of people around all the time, but for me it was easier because I
came from a big family. It’s like I just fell into it, where some girls were the only child in
their family and it was harder for them, but we got along good, even with our opposing
team, we were all friends. 25:01
Interviewer: In the early days, did you have any idea of the impact that you were
making on baseball, and on young girls who—as you know, later on baseball
became part of high schools and girls had a lot more opportunities than they had
before and when you were a kid. Did you have any idea, in the early days, that
something like that would happen?
Never, never in a million years
Interviewer: You‟re playing baseball and you‟re enjoying baseball.
We’re doing something we love.
Interviewer: Now, you were paid pretty well too, by the standards of the time.
Yes
Interviewer: Do you remember what you were getting in the early days?
When I was on tour, we made twenty-five dollars a week, but they paid all our expenses,
and we got three dollars a day for meals, which back then, you could eat on that, those
years back. So, actually I saved a lot of money, because we were always on the road, we
weren’t spending a lot of money, so most of my money I just sent back home. 26:07
Interviewer: And your dad just put it in the bank, or whatever?
Yes
16
�Interviewer: So, you had a little nest egg that you were building as you were moving
along?
Right
Interviewer: And your father, you said, was doing well enough that he didn‟t have
to tap into your money.
Oh, no
Interviewer: Because as you know, some of the girls were very poor and had to
actually help support their families. So, in your case, you were actually building
your own little nest egg, that‟s pretty good.
He was all for that, that’s what he preached, “Get an account and save your money”.
Interviewer: Now, in the early days you were playing on the Springfield team,
where was your sister?
She was in Muskegon to start with, and I think she went to Grand Rapids from there. To
the Grand Rapids Chicks, and she played on several teams
Interviewer: Now, did you know what she was up to and did she know what you
were up to, in other words, was there a way of finding out if she hit a homerun in a
game or not, or were you completely isolated because you were on the bus and doing
your own? 27:06
No, we had no idea what was going on in the league and they had no idea what we were
doing either.
Interviewer: How did you get your news of what‟s going on in the world? Did
you—were you so insulated in that bus, and then playing a game, and then back on
17
�the bus and then into the hotel, did you have any idea of what was going on around
you?
Yeah, we’d get the paper when we would stop at the hotels, you know, and check in.
We’d usually travel all night after the ball game and check into a hotel, but we usually
got the newspaper to know what was going on. Of course it didn’t have anything to do
with the league; we didn’t know what they were doing.
Interviewer: Right, because it wasn‟t like the New York Yankees or something like
that.
Right
Interviewer: The local papers, though, would carry stories about, not the league
necessarily, but about the individual teams in the town. Is that right? 28:00
Yes, and our business manager went out ahead and got the publicity out, and that’s how
the crowds came to the ball games, they knew we were coming to town.
Interviewer: In the early days, and we‟ll get into more details about your particular
games that you played and your career, but in the early days, what were the crowds
like?
Well, we’d hit a lot of small towns, but we would get seven and eight thousand people,
which was really great, because we’d be in some towns where it was almost like you
were playing out in a field, in a pasture, but those are the towns that drew the fans from
all over.
Interviewer: Ball parks were different town to town obviously, but in terms of—a
baseball diamond is a baseball diamond and you‟ve got bleachers for people to sit
18
�on, but you‟re saying that in some of the smaller towns it was out in the middle of
nowhere, so to speak?
Yes
Interviewer: Okay, were some ball parks better than others to play on, just in terms
of dirt and the way it was set up? 29:05
Yes, and we did play in some big parks, in big cities you know, a lot of big cities.
Interviewer: Walk me through the process—you get up in the morning, you‟re in a
hotel, you all get together and you‟re showering and you‟re getting your teeth clean
and all that kind of stuff, and you‟re all kind of mingling around, and you get on the
bus, right? Then the bus takes you to the ball park, and u go out and do your warm
ups and your practice and what not. The crowd shows up, you play the game, get
back on the bus, and then back to the hotel?
No, normally we had to shower right at the ball park and get on the bus and travel.
Sometimes we played a couple of nights in one town, but mostly it was just one night.
After the game, we’d shower, get back on the bus, and travel all night again. 30:00
Interviewer: When did you sleep?
Well, mostly on the bus.
Interviewer: I‟ve been on buses, you can‟t sleep on buses.
I know, I didn’t do good sleeping, but I’ve never needed much rest either, so I, really,
didn’t worry about that. But when we got into a town early in the morning, most girls
went to bed and got their rest before we had to get ready again.
Interviewer: What time were the games, usually?
Probably seven o’clock
19
�Interviewer: You had the whole day, basically.
Yes
Interviewer: What did you do?
We did a lot of things we shouldn’t do, like go swimming. It was hot, and something we
liked. A lot of us would go to the swimming pool, a lot of girls went to the movies where
it was air conditioned, to keep cool, but basically, that’s about what I remember.
Interviewer: How come you said it was things you were not supposed to do?
What‟s wrong with swimming and going to a movie?
Well, you take all your energy
Interviewer: Ah, okay 31:04
They didn’t want you to be all tired by the time it came time for a ball game.
Interviewer: Well, if that‟s the case, how did you get by the chaperone to go
swimming?
We had our skirts on, and she didn’t know that we were doing that.
Interviewer: So, there was a little bit of talking amongst you, “Today we‟re going to
go to the swimming pool, and how are we going to get out?” You were pretty much
free to do what you wanted in terms of, “you got your skirt on, so you‟re allowed to
go out into the town”, right? Go shopping or whatever? So, they didn‟t have
someone with you all the time?
No, so several of us would be together, and we’d have to get a cab to go to a pool, and we
were just busied for the day, and we really stayed out of trouble.
Interviewer: Were there any of you that got in trouble?
Not really
20
�Interviewer: Okay
I think maybe one or two girls were sent home. 32:02
Interviewer: Why were they sent home?
Maybe even smoking, and we were young enough there was very little drinking. There
might have been one girl that had been drinking and they sent her home, but normally, we
were too young for any of that. But, if they didn’t do what they were told, that’s why
they were sent home. They didn’t follow the rules.
Interviewer: The rules were made very clear to you I take it in the very beginning?
Yes
Interviewer: No smoking, no drinking, always wear the dress, behavior had to be
within certain guidelines and what not?
Yes
Interviewer: Where do you recall is the first real game that you played that you can
remember as this is the game that you played and did something that was out of the
ordinary? Was there a game you can remember?
No not—what happened, I was the left fielder and I started getting Charlie horses, so then
I wasn’t able to run. 33:10
So, when I was on the injured list then he started changing
me over to pitching, so then I started becoming a pitcher.
Interviewer: Had you pitched before when you were in softball or early on?
No, never and I still, today, couldn’t pitch softball, I don’t think, underhand.
Interviewer: By 1949 I‟m trying to remember now, what size was the ball? Had
already gone from a larger size to a smaller size?
21
�Yeah, it was just under a softball, and then as the years went along they reduced it.
Interviewer: Now, were you pitching side arm or overhand?
Overhand, and there were sidearm pitchers though/
Interviewer: So, basically, the coach got you to be a pitcher because your leg was
bothering you, you couldn‟t run out in the outfield to catch, you would hurt your
leg. 34:04
Whereas a pitcher, basically, stands up there and throws the ball and
doesn‟t run around a whole lot.
Yeah
Interviewer: What happened to the pitcher that was before you? Did you just
become like a substitute pitcher?
Well, we had several pitchers; we had three or four pitchers, so nobody had to pitch every
night.
Interviewer: From my recollection of baseball, you had first string and second
string. Did that apply to your group, or you just had pitchers that pitched different
games?
Yeah, just different pitchers
Interviewer: So, it wasn‟t as if you had one pitcher that played most of the games
and when that person got tired you replaced them?
No, it’s like the majors today where they put in a pitcher.
Interviewer: Okay, your first game as a pitcher, if I remember correctly, was it
Yankee Stadium? Is that accurate? 35:00
Well, we played there, but that was not our first game.
Interviewer: But, your first game as a pitcher?
22
�I’ll tell you, nothing rings a bell as far as anything outstanding.
Interviewer: Okay, because I have a note here that when you played at Yankee
Stadium there were some Yankees there and you exchanged a signed ball with
Tommy Henrich, is that right?
Tommy Henrich, yes
Interviewer: Tell us about that and what happened there?
Well, we were there to play some exhibition before their game, so we were out in the
field with them while they were having warm-ups, and so we got to talk to the fellows
and I changed balls with Tommy Henrich. They would take our ball and bat it, and we
were all just inner mingling.
Interviewer: What‟s the difference between an exhibition game and just a regular
game that you usually played? 36:00
Well, being on the tour it was, really, mostly all exhibitions, but going into the Yankee
Stadium was strictly an exhibition of a couple of innings.
Interviewer: Oh, I see, you just played a couple of innings.
Yeah, just before their game. They were playing the Washington Senators, and we were
just out on the field ahead of that in a couple of innings.
Interviewer: Okay, I got it. Now, when you‟re in a city like that or a town like that,
doing exhibition, did you also have to play a regular game?
Well, we didn’t that night.
Interviewer: So, you had a chance to go out in spectator seats and watch the game?
Yes, and we did that at Washington’s Griffith Stadium also. In Washington, we went
there and did that too.
23
�Interviewer: You must have seen some amazing ball players.
We did
Interviewer: Who were some of the ones that were playing around that time? Do
you recall any names?
Well, I think Mickey Mantle and Whitey Ford, some of the big guys.
Interviewer: Wow, these are legends. 37:05 Now, this is an unfair question and
I‟m giving you this in advance, okay? You‟re a good ball player, you know you‟re a
good ball player, and you‟re watching Mickey Mantle, or Whitey Ford, was there
ever any comparisons in your own mind about, “I can hit better than that”, or
anything like that going on?
I never thought that.
Interviewer: Okay
I never compared myself to the men. A lot of women think they could have played with
the men, and maybe they could have, but as a rule, generally women are just like a step
behind men, I think.
Interviewer: Well, in terms of that league, you had—your actual diamond was a
little bit different, right?
A little smaller
Interviewer: Smaller, and of course, the ball was bigger as well.
Yes
Interviewer: Okay, the trips that you took on the buses and the times that you spent
in the hotel rooms, having dinner, lunch, or whatever, what was the mood of the
24
�team? 38:06 Did you have some friends that you made or was it kind of like you
were all ball players? Did you make some good friends out of that group?
Yes, lots of friends, and they’re still friends today. We still see each other at reunions or
talk on the phone or correspond.
Interviewer: What about the fact that they came from all over? The part, I guess
that I‟m trying to get to is — I‟ve been fortunate enough that I‟ve been in an
international environment. I met people from all over the world and I met people
from different parts of the country, but you‟re coming from a small town, going into
some of these bigger cities that you‟ve never been to before and you‟re meeting
other girls that play as good as you, and are on your team, and opposing teams, but
one‟s from South Carolina, maybe, and another one from New York. Was there
any kind of curiosity, on your part, of how they lived their lives? Did they ask you
questions about what it was like when you were growing up? Was there any of that
kind of talk? 39:06
Yes, because quite a few of the girls were from Chicago and they live a different lifestyle,
that’s all there is to it. When they understand how we lived they just said, “I couldn’t live
like that”, and I’m saying, “I can’t live like you live either”. Some girls were from like
Arkansas where they came right from the hills, and they lived a different lifestyle, but we
all intermixed, you know.
Interviewer: But there was a noticeable difference though, you could really tell
there was—the way they talked for example, and I imagine they thought you talked
funny, and you probably thought they talked funny?
25
�Yes, that’s right, and there were places where we went and people would say, “You’re
from the Midwest states; we can tell by the way you talk”. We don’t think we have any
kind of an accent, and when you get out east too, you know, it’s another ball game out
east, the way those people live. 40:05 We were in around New York, New Jersey,
Newark, and all those cities around in there. We played those when we’d wrap up the
season, we’d be up in that way and you can tell immediately the difference in the attitude
of the people just getting on an elevator, being in a hotel and being with different classes
of people from different areas of the whole country.
Interviewer: But you had a pretty solid family background. You had a solid
ground, so you knew pretty much who you were, so even though you were dealing
with people who had different ways of doing things, you still pretty much stuck to
your own way of doing things.
Yes, I think I always had a mind of my own. Nobody could convince me of, like doing
the wrong thing. I knew what was right or wrong and I just wasn’t made that way. 41:02
Interviewer: Now, 1950 you leave the Springfield Sallies, and you‟re now moving on
to Kalamazoo, is that right?
Yes
Interviewer: Why did that happen and how? Tell us about how that occurred.
They didn’t have the tour after that. The two teams did not tour again and my manager
from the tour was doing the Kalamazoo team and they asked me to play there.
Interviewer: So, you‟re going from being a touring team, now to having a home
team?
Yes
26
�Interviewer: Okay, so what does that do in terms of where you‟re living, because
you‟ve been living on the road, basically, all through the season? By the way, what
happens after the season is over, did you just go back home?
Yes
Interviewer: And what did you do in the off season? The first year, we‟re talking
about 1949-1950.
We ran a soda bar. My dad had a soda bar, and us girls ran it, and it was just strictly in
the family. 42:05
Interviewer: So, he went from his job—he was able to invest in a business and sold
malts and root beer floats and things like that?
Yes, sandwiches and we had a really good business, but the problem was my sister and I
going away, and during the summer months when it’s the most busy, so after a couple
years we stopped doing that, because he couldn’t handle it with us gone. My other sisters
came and helped us, but they were all still in school.
Interviewer: Now, when you got back home, both you and your sister, did you talk
about—brag to each other or try to one up each other, what was that like?
Oh, I don’t think we did, I don’t remember doing that. You talk about things, but we
weren’t trying to outdo each other. 43:01
Interviewer: Did you talk about particular plays that you did that you thought she
would be interested in, like you hit a home run, or something like that?
No
Interviewer: Okay, there‟s no real competition between the two of you?
No, not really
27
�Interviewer: Okay, because sometimes those siblings, they got that competition
going on.
I didn’t feel that way, but I’m not sure how she felt. I can’t speak for her, you know.
Interviewer: So, the touring team ends, and now because the manager already
knew your talents, he decided he wanted you to become part of the Kalamazoo
Lassies now?
Yes
Interviewer: What was that transition like? You went from being on the bus all the
time, hotels, play, busses, what was the difference? Did you have to move to
Kalamazoo?
Yes, and I lived with a family. I just had a room with a couple other girls, and girls that
were on the tour that I knew. In fact, neither one of them were on the team I was on, on
tour, but we were friends and we lived with this family in Kalamazoo. 44:06 We just
rented a room.
Interviewer: So, what was your daily routine? I know what it was like when you
were on the touring bus, but what is it like now that you‟re in Kalamazoo?
Well, a lot of times we had to go and practice, but otherwise we found things to do. Like
I said, go swimming, or other things, going to movies.
Interviewer: Do you remember the first day playing at the Kalamazoo, playing for
the Kalamazoo Lassies?
No, not really
Interviewer: Okay, what was the difference though, in terms of playing, was it just,
basically, the same kind of thing, you‟re just playing the game?
28
�I think it was the same, except now I’m a real rookie with lots of veterans, and that’s the
point where they made us know we were rookies and they were veterans, but there were
enough of us that we stuck together, so that didn’t bother us. 45:04 I can’t say they
were mean to us, they were just like, “We’re a little better than you are”, but that doesn’t
last either.
Interviewer: Oh, okay, because you start to prove yourself and once you start
hitting that ball or catching that ball, they—
And they get to know you, you know.
Interviewer: Are there any notable games you can remember while you‟re in
Kalamazoo?
No
Interviewer: How was your hitting?
Not good
Interviewer: Neither was mine, I was a pitcher too.
I have to admit, I was not a batter.
Interviewer: How was your pitching?
I was fairly good.
Interviewer: Any specialalities?
No
Interviewer: Okay, I actually learned how to throw a knuckle ball, and that was
pretty impressive in little league, somebody throwing a knuckle ball.
Yeah, because back then you didn’t talk about all the pitches they talk about today.
46:00
29
�Interviewer: Sure, sure, was it during this period of time that the transition went
from the larger ball to a smaller ball?
Yes, as the years went along it reduced two or three times.
Interviewer: Right, how did you adapt to that? Was there any problem in adapting
to it? I mean, it‟s a different weight though isn‟t it?
Yeah, and it was a good change. It would have been worse if it was the other way
around, to a bigger ball.
Interviewer: So, you played with the Kalamazoo lassies from 1951 to 1953. During
this period of time you were making good money and money was still going back
home to be saved up in the bank. What was happening during the off seasons? You
said that after a while you were no longer working in the soda fountain. 47:00
No, when I started playing in Kalamazoo I decided to stay there, because several of us
stayed there then, lots of the girls stayed.
Interviewer: You‟re now like nineteen, almost twenty years old by this time right?
Yes
Interviewer: So, you‟re actually going from being a girl to, now you‟re more of an
independent woman?
Yes
Interviewer: You‟re making your own money, you‟re not beholding to anybody per
say, okay, so you decided to stay in Kalamazoo. Just renting the room?
Yes, living with, like, the same girls most of the time, and then we all played basketball
together, we had the Lassie basketball team.
Interviewer: This was a city team?
30
�Yes, and I started working at a bank then. Well, I started working at First National Bank
in Kalamazoo. And, of course, I left there to play ball again in 1952. 48:02 They said,
“Now, when you leave, we’re not going to hire you back, you won’t have your job”, and
I said, “that’s okay, I’m going anyway”. So, the next year, after I played ball and was
looking for a job, I was hired at Comerica Bank right across the street, and then they
hired me back each time.
Interviewer: This leads me to another question then. You‟re playing baseball
professionally, making good money; you‟re working at a bank now okay? In your
own mind now, at that time, what were you thinking in terms of your career? Were
you thinking you were going to be a professional baseball player for the rest of your
life, or at least for the rest of your physical ability to play, or were you already
thinking, “Wait a minute, this is not going to last very long, I‟m going to be a
banker or whatever”. Was any of that going through your head?
Well, not in the early days. 49:00
In 1953 then, when I was loaned to South Bend, and
came back to Kalamazoo, because I was still living there, that’s when I decided, “I’m just
going back to the bank, I got a job at the bank, I’ll just give up baseball”.
Interviewer: Jumping back a little bit, did you ever think of baseball as being a
career?
Not for my whole life, no.
Interviewer: Why, why would you not think that you could continue playing, at
least until you were physically unable to?
31
�I think that’s what you think about, “I won’t always be able to do this”. Of course, we
had no idea the league was going to fold either, that was a surprise because there were
girls that intended to keep playing.
Interviewer: That‟s why I‟m asking you this, because I‟ve interviewed girls that
thought that they were going to continue to play baseball, but you already figured
out that wasn‟t going to be your path. 50:04
Right, when they loaned me to South Bend I thought, “Oh, I’m not going to go through
this and have them start shifting me around”. I thought, “I got a job, I’m just going to go
to work”. Of course, then I went back into local softball and basketball. I still had my
sports, just not on the professional level.
Interviewer: 1953, you„re playing with the Kalamazoo lassies and you were saying,
just now, that they loaned you out, what does that mean?
South Bend was short players, so they sent me there to help out, which they did a lot of
girls. In fact, that’s the only time my sister and I played on the same team; she was
loaned to South Bend also, so then we got to live together for those couple of months and
play on the same team, which was the first time. 51:01
Interviewer: We‟re going to start winding it down, were about down to about five
minutes more of tape, so we‟re going to wind it down and when they change the tape
we‟ll get back into more of this. I wanted you to know in advance that we‟re going
to stop here just briefly and switch the tapes.
Okay
Interviewer: I want to get into, not right now, but I obviously want to get into you
being in South Bend with your sister. I think that‟s interesting and hopefully there
32
�are little stories there. You haven‟t really talked a lot about your own playing and
the games. I don‟t know if it‟s just a matter of not remembering specific games, but
I‟d like to talk more about some of the games that you played, and the other thing is
more of the details of things like uniforms and equipment, because when you were
playing on the sand lots you were saying somebody had a glove and somebody had a
ball and somebody had a bat you always used and it was different when you became
professional, so I want to get into those kinds of details as well.
Yes, okay 52:02
Interviewer: Not being able to hit a home run—my entire time in the little league,
as a pitcher, I only had one home run. Are you ready for this one? It was a bunt
and they made so many mistakes, they overthrew this one and overthrew that one,
so that was my claim to fame. My only homerun was on a bunt.
Isn’t that funny?
Interviewer: Now, we‟re into some of the details of the league, how the league was
run, how you perform within the league, and let‟s start with the uniform. 53:03
When you were playing in the back sand lots it was what? Basically blue jeans and
what not, whatever you could wear. When did you first, if you can recall, first see
the uniform, the girl‟s uniform?
Well, I was fortunate to see the Lassies in Muskegon when they came there in 1946, so I
knew what they were wearing before I ever joined the league.
Interviewer: What was your reaction? You‟re a young girl and you‟re supposed to
dress in certain ways. Certainly you couldn‟t walk out in the street, at fourteen
33
�years old, wearing a skirt like that. Was there any reaction at all of the uniforms
from you?
I don’t think so, I think a rule is a rule and that was the uniform to wear, and if you didn’t
like it you wouldn’t play. There was no question, it’s like all the rules, and you just had
to abide by the rules. 54:01
Interviewer: What was the uniform that you wore, the first one--with the
Springfield Sallies? What were the colors and what did it look like?
Well, I had been fortunate, I had a white uniform with green trim, and, basically, that’s
what I had in Kalamazoo, except on the road, then we wore gold, but our home uniforms
were white with green, just like I was accustom to.
Interviewer: Hat, baseball hat?
Hat and those were like wool hats, socks, knee socks that were wool.
Interviewer: Did you wear cleats?
Yes
Interviewer: So, they were just like professional baseball.
Yes, and those were not furnished.
Interviewer: Oh, really?
No, you bought your own cleats and your own glove. The bats and balls were furnished,
and the uniform, but we provided our own mitt. 55:02
Interviewer: Why? 56:08 You said you had to furnish your own shoes, the cleats,
and your own glove, out of your own pocket. Why was that, the balls and the bats
and the uniform, all that was taken care of?
I don’t know why either, you know.
34
�Interviewer: The skirt itself also had shorts underneath, but the skirt did not
protect your knees sliding in or anything. Did you ever have an incident where you
had to slide into a base that you can remember?
No
Interviewer: But you saw other do that?
Yes, and in the earlier years those skirts were a little longer and they were fuller. 57:02
But, they learned to make those more chic like and shorter, where it was easier when
throwing and sliding and running, otherwise you had too much of a skirt.
Interviewer: Right, did you ever see anyone slide in? What happens when they
slide onto a base?
Well, a lot of the girls had strawberries, raw hips, and some had it all year long, because
they were used to that. I think my sister was one of the first people back then that slid
head first. You know, they all do it today, but years ago they didn’t do that and I think
she was the first one that I can recall seeing slide head first.
Interviewer: From a civilian perspective, a male civilian perspective, I find it really
difficult to grasp that you would slide into a base. 58:02
Literally, you call it a
strawberry and we‟re talking about scraping the skin in the dirt and the stones and
all that.
That’s right
Interviewer: Well, did they put anything on it? Did you put a band aid on it?
Oh yeah, they got treated afterwards by the chaperone,
35
�Interviewer: But this was common. This is something that went on game after
game and women were always getting these scrapes and what not, but that didn‟t
strike you as strange?
No, it’s like that was the rule and you just abided by it.
Interviewer: so, the uniform, each team had their own uniforms so you could tell
the difference between the teams, obviously, but you said you had, I missed the
wording, but you said you had one kind of uniform and then you had a second kind
of uniform?
Yeah, we wore white uniforms at home and colored on the road, which the major leagues
do now too. 59:00 But, we did that way back then.
Interviewer: I get you now, okay—tell us about the fans. You got good crowds?
Very good, very good
Interviewer: These were people who were e supporting one team or the other, the
home team or the other team, but were there any, in particular, that you can recall,
particular fans?
Well, I had a lot of friends in Kalamazoo, being I worked there during the winter months,
and I would become acquainted with people, but we had regular followings though. Back
in Muskegon we had a “knothole gang”, kids that stood outside the fence and they had
little holes in the fence to look through and they called them the “knothole gang”. Back
in Muskegon, one year, they had a hundred and forty thousand fans, which was a record,
and at one game they had seven thousand. 00:01
Interviewer: Now, the “knotholes” is because they couldn‟t afford the ticket to get
in, right? So, they just looked through the holes in the wood.
36
�Yes, and I see people today, kids, guys in Muskegon who were part of that. They come
up and say, “I used to go to the games and I was part of the “knothole gang””.
Interviewer: We got to talk to those guys--that‟s wonderful. Now, I know that
professional baseball, whether it‟s women‟s baseball or male baseball, there are
certain—there are fans that like one particular player or a couple of players. Did
you ever have a fan club?
Kind of, yes, I—it’s easy for me because I like people and I didn’t have a problem.
Interviewer: Tell us about this, how did you know that these people were watching?
These were young boys?
Yes, and off the field I was friends with them, and we became friends because they came
to the ball games. 1:03 And after the game we’d go out and eat and during the day, or
on weekends, we’d go to a movie, and these fellows would follow us wherever we went.
When they could do that, their work would allow them to do that, and they would come
to Grand Rapids, Fort Wayne, and South Bend. We were centrally located in Kalamazoo,
so these fellas could move around, and they did not miss a game. There must have been
six or eight of them.
Interviewer: Were they around your age?
Yes
Interviewer: Okay, what was their motivation for following you guys around?
Well, I’m not sure, and they became friends with the other girls too and some of them
might have their eye on one of them and be interested. I mean, there was always that
chance. 2:01
37
�Interviewer: These are baseball fans who just happen to be enamored by you and
your teammates since they would travel around to different places. I imagine that
was also true of other teams. I don‟t know if you know that or not, but do you think
that‟s true of other teams?
I think so, I think so, I’m sure that’s how some of the girls met their husbands, by going
to ball games.
Interviewer: You were a pitcher through most of your career?
Yes
Interviewer: You started off, as I recall that, you played in left field and because of
your Charlie horses you were made into a pitcher. Did you feel that you got better
as a pitcher as time goes on, simply because you were practicing, obviously, more
and more, but did you feel like you got better, or did you just kind of take to being a
pitcher?
I don’t know if I got better. I felt, myself, that I was kind of wild, but, you know, I’m left
handed and that’s what they say, that left handers are wild. 3:05
Interviewer: Did you ever “bean” anybody?
No, but close, and one incident, we were in New York and the leadoff batter was a small
girl and the first pitch I threw went behind her instead of in front of her, and she yelled so
loud you could have heard her for a mile. She was just like, you know, petrified. Well,
that made me laugh and everybody there was laughing and I could not keep a straight
face after that, the way she yelled. I couldn’t believe I did it to start with, but it was just
an incident I’ll never forget.
38
�Interviewer: There had to be individual batters that everybody knew was a really
good batter. 4:03 When I was in little league there was a guy that was taller than
all the rest of us and everybody knew that this guy was a major hitter. So, the first
time he ever came up to me, as a pitcher, I remember that distinctly. Now, this
interview is not about me, so I‟m not going to go into details, but I want to know, did
something like that happen to you? There was somebody who already had a
reputation for being a hitter and you‟re the pitcher, and your job is to strike that
person out, or at the very least, have them hit the ball in such a way that your
teammates can get them out. Now, can you recall running up against somebody who
was—had a reputation for being a good hitter?
Well, we had several in the league; in fact, one of them was on our own team, Doris
Sams, who was one of the league’s best hitters, but there were several on other teams that
you had to watch out for.
Interviewer: Do you recall any incident where you had real trouble striking a
person out? 5:02
No, not to my knowledge
Interviewer: Did anyone hit a home run off of you?
I don’t think so, I don’t remember any.
Interviewer: What was the biggest fear, as a pitcher, what was the biggest fear you
had of the batter? In terms of, are they going to hit it into right field, left field, are
they going to hit a line drive, what were the ones that you were concerned the if you
threw the ball a certain way, it was going to get hit in a certain way and then you
guys were in trouble, do you remember? Because I can remember when I was a
39
�pitcher, one of the things I was concerned about was when they would hit over my
head right down the line and, of course, the short stop and they would all try—and
then you would have bases running. Did any of that kind of strategy go through
your head when you were pitching?
Nope, nope, I think I was so busy trying to get the ball over the plate that I didn’t worry
about where they were going to hit it. 6:02
Interviewer: Okay, did you have a special? Was your fast ball really good? Did
you have a curve ball?
Mostly fast ball, but being a left hander you had a natural curve, so that’s one thing the
catcher was worried about, you know, a left hander throwing it.
Interviewer: What was your actual pitching style? I raised my leg and threw that
way. How did you pitch?
Straight overhand
Interviewer: But you had to wind up?
Oh, yeah
Interviewer: And then what? You brought the ball here, right, and then what?
Then I kicked my leg too.
Interviewer: You did kick your leg?
Yeah
Interviewer: That gave you the traction to do the overhand?
Right, to throw straight down, you know.
Interviewer: Any times when the ball came straight at you, when they hit the ball?
7:01
40
�A couple of times
Interviewer: Can you talk about that? Do you remember that?
No, I was fast enough to reach out, you know. I didn’t get hit with it anyway. I was
either fast enough to get out of the way or catch it.
Interviewer: Do you remember any close games? I mean ones where you really
didn‟t know if you were going to win or not?
Not right off hand, no. I guess we’re talking about too many years ago that nothing sticks
in my mind.
Interviewer: Sure, sure, you were talking about this “knothole gang” and these
young gentlemen who used to follow you around. What about girls, did girls come
to the games? I mean, eleven, twelve, thirteen, you know, a little younger than you,
but were there girls at these games?
I’m sure there were, because we had bat girls, too. There were young girls that hung
around the ball park and then they became a bat girl, but most of them were not real
young kids. 8:05 There were lots of ladies there, lots of women that enjoyed the sport.
Interviewer: I was thinking that here you had these male admirers that were
following you around, and I‟m just wondering why there were no younger girls that
were fascinated by the baseball and would want to meet with you and talk to you.
I don’t know, I think that it wasn’t that popular yet in the schools like todays time. They
didn’t do that in school like they do today.
Interviewer: Did you have to sign autographs?
Yes
Interviewer: Like balls and things like that?
41
�Yes, we did a lot of that.
Interviewer: Was that done just after the game? People would come up and ask
you for an autograph?
Sure
Interviewer: What was your reaction to that? You‟d seen Yankee‟s baseball gets
those sorts of things and did you just take that in stride that somebody wanted your
autograph?
Yeah, I didn’t think about it like I’m really something, and it seemed like that was the
thing to do. 9:05 You liked that they wanted your autograph and I liked it when the
people liked me.
Interviewer: Did you ever get interviewed for a newspaper or radio during those
days, do you remember?
No, I’m trying to think
Interviewer: In terms of—I want to get, once again, down to the “South Bend Blue
Sox” when you were loaned out. You were part of a major team, the “Kalamazoo
Lassies”, you were part of a touring team, the “Springfield Sallies”, was that a
different experience for you to be just loaned out to a team?
Yes
Interviewer: In what way?
I don’t know, but I didn’t like it, and I know a lot of girls were loaned. My sister played
on about eight different teams and I guess that comes with the territory, but I didn’t like it
when I was loaned out. 10:07
Interviewer: Why?
42
�I don’t know, I guess I thought, I didn’t know if Kalamazoo didn’t need me, and maybe it
hurt my feelings, and maybe that’s why I quit at the end of the year.
Interviewer: I guess that‟s what I was getting at, maybe that was part of the
motivation.
It was like; “I’m not going back”, but they still had my contract in Kalamazoo. I’m like,
“I’m not going to go back and have them start shifting me around”.
Interviewer: When you‟re playing with the “Lassies”, and when you played with
the “Sally‟s”, you had mentioned that there‟s a sense of--you have a team, there‟s a
camaraderie, you know the people, you‟re going through the same kinds of trials
and tribulations, but with the South Bend team did you feel that, it was—did you
feel like you were part of that team? 11:00
Yeah, it was alright
Interviewer: A different uniform?
Oh yeah—well, the same short skirt, different colors is all.
Interviewer: Right, how did you get fitted for those? Did they have a tailor there,
or something?
Yeah, they had places they would take them and have them dry cleaned and stuff. They
had places to take them, because we didn’t wash our own uniforms. Those were left at
the clubhouse and I believe the chaperone, that was her job to make sure the uniforms got
cleaned, so they were dry cleaned, you know.
Interviewer: What did you do for—you mentioned before that on the off days, or
the days before you played a game, you would either go swimming, or you would go
43
�to the movies, but what was some of the other recreation? What were some of the
other things you used to do?
Right off hand I can’t tell you.
Interviewer: Were you a reader, did you like to read?
Sure, but then you didn’t have TV like today. 12:02 You didn’t sit home and watch TV,
and it’s like we had something going on all the time, maybe with several of us going
shopping.
Interviewer: Were you very fashion conscious?
No, not really, of course I worked in the bank, so you had to wear skirts again, you
always wore a dress, so that part of it, you weren’t in slacks like you are today. That
wasn’t the style.
Interviewer: Right, now during this period of time, you‟re starting out at seventeen
and you‟re into your twenties, and if this is too personal you just don‟t have to say
anything, but it was at this time—usually, when a young girl starts to think about
boys and boys start thinking about girls. Was there anybody in the wings there?
13:00
Yup, I had boy friends in Kalamazoo, and I had them in Muskegon while I was in high
school, but nothing serious on my part, but I had several boyfriends.
Interviewer: Now, these boyfriends--were they people you attracted because you
were a ball player, or they met you when you were not playing ball?
Well, both
44
�Interviewer: Because that‟s got to be flattering, to be playing baseball and some guy
comes up and he‟s obviously interested in talking to you and maybe wants to go out
to a movie, or something like that?
Yes, and I did that a lot, or we went swimming. After the game they took you out for
dinner. We had a couple of hours until we had to be back, but we went out for dinner a
lots of times after the ball game, but I did go places with them, or go to movies—a lot of
activities.
Interviewer: Did you travel in groups when you went on these dates, and whatnot?
Was there like two of you, or three of you, a group of you? 14:05
Yes, maybe a couple of the girls and two or three of the boys.
Interviewer: Were you a dancer?
No, back then I wasn’t. I just wasn’t interested then.
Interviewer: We had talked earlier about the fact that you didn‟t see baseball as a
career for you, and you could see that there was something else you wanted to do,
what did you want to do besides baseball, or did you know at that time? I know you
worked in a bank, but that was basically because it was a job, but what did you
want to do?
Well, I think at that point in my life, I thought I’d be in banking all my life. I wasn’t
scouting around looking for something new. I wished I had gone on to college, and
living in Kalamazoo, that would have been ideal.
Interviewer: That was available to women, at that time, to be able to go to college?
15:02
45
�Yes, and some of our girls did that, some of the girls that I roomed with. I wish I had,
because I would be a physical education teacher.
Interviewer: Okay, that makes sense.
That’s the regret I have, of not getting into PE.
Interviewer: Right, but you, after you—let‟s talk about that. The south Bend Blue
Sox, you still have a contract with Kalamazoo though, right?
Yes
Interviewer: What made you decide to quit baseball? The league didn‟t fold until
1954.
Right
Interviewer: That wasn‟t the reason.
No, I got my contract in 1954, but I was working at the bank, and I just decided I wasn’t
going to do that, and then have them shift me around, which I had no idea they would,
but I just thought, “I’ll just keep my job”, and it’s funny how that happened, because the
league stopped then that year. 16:08 In 1954 it was all done.
Interviewer: Was your sister still playing?
Yes
Interviewer: So, what was her reaction to your quitting, do you remember?
No
Interviewer: There was no conversation about, “What are you doing?” “Are you
crazy?” “What are you doing?” There was nothing like that?
No
Interviewer: What about your dad?
46
�I think he didn’t like it, because he really enjoyed the fact that we played, and that was
really his life, you know, but he didn’t try to stop me.
Interviewer: Well, it was a responsible job, and working at a bank, at that time, was
a very prestigious thing.
Right
Interviewer: But what about—and maybe it‟s too much detail, but what about the
money, was the bank paying better than baseball, or was baseball paying better
than the bank?
No, I think I was making more playing baseball. Maybe not a lot more, but I was making
more than on the job. 17:03
Interviewer: But, you didn‟t have to travel, didn‟t have to get on the bus, didn‟t
have to do a lot of that sort of thing.
Right
Interviewer: Did you—forgive me because my dates are not where they should be,
but did you go to Cuba?
No, I was not in the league at that time.
Interviewer: Okay, was there any unusual place that you went beside just to South
Bend and Kalamazoo. Was there any particular place that really sticks out, maybe
New York City or someplace like that?
When I played on tour there were a lot of places, and Washington was one of them, and
New York.
Interviewer: Washington D.C.?
Yes
47
�Interviewer: What was your impression of Washington? This is has got to be—I
remember when I first went to Washington D.C., it‟s amazing with all those
monuments and all that, and you were a young kid.
I know, and you know, they kept us so busy playing one game here and moving into one
game there, that I wasn’t really impressed too much with a lot of cities. I liked the fact
that I had been there, and we did see a lot of the country. 18:05 When we were on tour
we went over a hundred thousand miles each summer, and played games, usually one
night stands. It took us all the way from the Midwest, down south, back up to the east
coast, and then we went up into Canada. So, we went across the border into Canada, and
those are things that never would have happened in my lifetime.
Interviewer: If you were a banker.
That’s right, yeah
Interviewer: What was it like down south?
Different than the way we live, but nothing sticks out in my mind that—where the people
were so—I think the people down south are really nice people, where I can’t always say
that when you get to big cities. 19:04 You know, you get to New York and Newark
and some of those big cities and everybody’s-- it’s a busy life, it’s a different life style.
Interviewer: Did you have hecklers?
Yes
Interviewer: Like what? Do you remember? Probably in New York
Yeah well, I just—I can’t tell you what I---anything that sticks out in my mind.
Interviewer: But, you did get heckled, and there were people that would yell out.
48
�“White girls can’t play ball”, you know, and stuff like that. Of course I think they change
their mind once they see us play, and that’s when it comes about, you know. They can
talk and holler all they want, but once they see the game they know better. 20:00
Interviewer: What was the process of getting out of your contract with Kalamazoo,
or did it just end and then you just decided not to renew, what happened?
They sent me a contract and I just returned it and said I wasn’t interested.
Interviewer: Your coach didn‟t contact you or say, “Why aren‟t you going to do
this?”
No, it went back to the business manager and they probably had enough players that they
didn’t worry about it.
Interviewer: How did you find out that the league folded?
Well, living in Kalamazoo I was able to be up on the latest news with that, and I was
rooming with one of the girls that was playing. We roomed together and then when I
stopped playing ball we still roomed together. I went to work and she went to play ball,
so I knew, because I was still friends with all the girls. 21:02
Interviewer: What was your reaction?
Well, I just couldn’t believe it, but I’m sure the ones still playing ball couldn’t believe it
more than me, and I was stunned. I thought they’d still be playing.
Interviewer: Did you have any emotional reaction? Were you angry or sad or
anything like that?
No, because I wasn’t part of it anymore.
Interviewer: Did you miss it?
49
�Yes, but I did go back into softball, local softball in Kalamazoo, so I was still playing,
and then we started playing basketball, so I was still active. Then I got into bowling and
some of the other sports.
Interviewer: So, sports have been a major part of your life.
Yes
Interviewer: Let‟s talk about the aftermath of playing baseball. 22:02
You‟re
working at the bank now, and what was the next major thing that happened in your
life?
Well, I still would have been in Kalamazoo, but my mom got sick, back in Muskegon and
my three sisters that were still home got married and they went away with their husbands
to the war. So, they all left town and my mom wasn’t well, and that’s when I decided I
better quit my job at Comerica and go back home and see if I could help.
Interviewer: So, what did you do? What work were you doing back home?
Well, I worked in a bank.
Interviewer: I see, so you just found another job in a bank.
The vice-president there got be a job back in Muskegon, so I knew when I went home
that I already had a job, and then I lived at home with my folks, and there were still some
of the kids’ home, the younger ones.
Interviewer: What happened to your older sister that was playing baseball? When
baseball was over with what did she do? 23:01
She stayed in Rockford the first year.
Interviewer: Rockford, Illinois?
50
�Yeah, that’s where she ended up playing ball, so she got a job over there and things
weren’t working out right, so she came back home and I got her a job in the bank, so then
she worked at the bank for twenty-five years after that, so that was good for her and then
she got settled down.
Interviewer: Did you start a family?
No, I never did. I don’t know, I guess because I came from a big family I never felt like I
missed anything. We always had little kids around, you know, and by then we had nieces
and nephews and my life was already full.
Interviewer: Looking back, now we had talked earlier about when you played
baseball you really had no idea of the effect that your actions, and the actions of
your fellow ball players, as women, were having on this culture and on the way
women play sports. 24:10
Now, go to any high school in America and you‟ve got a
girls baseball team, a girls basketball team and whatever. When you were growing
up that didn‟t happen, that didn‟t exist at all.
No
Interviewer: So, here you are working in the bank now, the league is over with,
you‟re going on with your life, there‟s your family, there‟s families around you,
when did you start thinking—when did you start becoming aware of the effect that
professional women‟s baseball had? Was there any, even in the fifties and into the
sixties, was there any idea that there was some affect that you had?
No not really, it took about twenty years after our league folded and then we started
having reunions and then things started happening where then we got inducted into the
Cooperstown Hall of Fame. 25:10
51
�Interviewer: When was the first reunion that you can remember, do you remember
that?
I believe it was 1980.
Interviewer: So, how did you find out there was going to be a reunion?
They had one of our girls out of Kalamazoo, and she started it.
Interviewer: Do you remember who it was?
June Peppas, she had a print shop, in fact, she really lived in Allegan at that time, but she
go everybody’s names and addresses and people that she didn’t have, somebody else
would help her find them. They’d say, “Oh, I know so and so and I know where they
live, or I have their address”, and she formed the first reunion, and we went to Chicago.
Interviewer: How did you find out, did you get an invitation in the mail? How did
you find out?
She sent out invitations and planned the whole thing, with help. 26:04
Interviewer: I want you to think about this now. What was your reaction when you
opened up that piece of paper and this has been twenty years? You haven‟ played
baseball professionally, you left early and you open this thing up and they‟re saying,
“We want you to come”.
I thought, “Great, I get to see all the girls again”, and I had friends still in Kalamazoo, so
we talked to each other and I went down to Kalamazoo and we rode together to Chicago
to the reunion. I rode with other girls who had roomed with us before, and it was just
great seeing everybody after all those years.
Interviewer: Can you recall any of the conversation in the car going up? You must
have had—the anticipation alone of seeing all these people you really cared for and
52
�had a major impact in your life, what was that like being in a car driving to
Chicago? 27:00
Well, it was, “I wonder about her and I wonder about her. Will she be there, or is she still
around, or what does she look like?”
Interviewer: So, you arrive by car and there‟s what, three or four of you?
Yes
Interviewer: You‟re at the hotel where you‟re going to have the reunion. Do you
recall walking into the lobby? Tell us about that.
Oh, it was great, and there were people all over that had already gotten there, it was
wonderful, you could not believe it.
Interviewer: Did you recognize people?
Yes, most everybody
Interviewer: But you were a little bit older at that time, but not that much really,
but you recognized people huh?
Yeah, and there was one girl everybody was looking for who was famous, Dotty
Schroeder, she was on the cover of a men’s sports magazine back in those years when we
played ball, and she was beautiful. She was one that I had roomed with in Kalamazoo,
but when she walked into the hotel—everybody was waiting to see when Dotty would
come. 28:08 she walked in and everybody just stopped talking and were just looking.
She wasn’t anybody that was forward, and she just stood there and was starting to get
embarrassed. It was only for a few seconds, but it seemed like a long time. I said,
“You’re just as ugly as you always were”, and that cracked everybody up, you know, it
was like break the silence, you know, but that started everybody.
53
�Interviewer: Why was she kind of—because I remember from what I‟ve read and
the research I‟ve done, always the focus was on the team, it was never about
individuals. Not like Mickey Mantle or any of the baseball players that you—the
male baseball players. How come she stood out? 29:01
Well, she was always one of the best, and there were others like that, Doris Sams, played
with Kalamazoo, and she was another one, a great hitter, a great fielder, and a pitcher, she
could pitch too, and she was one of the famous ones, and we had quite a few of those.
Interviewer: But for some reason Dotty Schroeder, for you, for all of you, seemed to
be the one everyone wanted to see there.
Yeah, I think everybody thought, “I wonder what she looks like now?” I don’t know if
you ever said it, but you could tell that’s what people were thinking, and she looked the
same, she looked the same.
Interviewer: I mentioned to you earlier, before the interview, that I‟d been to
Flying Tigers reunions, and I‟ve been to reunions where there are these very close
knit people from the WWII era. You were there for three days?
Yeah 30:01
Interviewer: And you had dinners and what not, and was there talk about liking it
so much you want to do this again?
Yes, that’s when we decided we would do it every five years, and we did do it every five
years for a little while, but then we stopped and we went to two years. Well then it
wasn’t too long and now we do it every year. It depends on the location of the reunion,
how many girls we get to come. If it’s centrally located we get them from the east and
54
�the west, where if you have to go clear to California, sometimes you don’t get the girls
from out east. You know, not everybody can afford to do this.
Interviewer: After the first reunion, which was just kind of thrown together
because this one woman went through all the hassle, and I know what it‟s like to
have to put on one of these things, you made it more formal and you have a board of
directors, and you ended up as an association. 31:04
Yes, after that
Interviewer: So, then individuals were elected to the board and they would decide,
“Okay, we‟re going to have a reunion in Milwaukee”, or we‟re going to have a
reunion here or wherever it is. Did you vote on that?
A lot of it depended on if somebody volunteered to do it, and you’re talking about a lot of
work. You’ve got to be in a place where you have help, and you can’t go to some far out
place where you’re the only one. You can’t do it by yourself. Where like going to
California there must have been ten or twelve girls out that way, close by, that could help
and put on the reunion. We went to Fort Wayne for quite a while and we had many
reunions there. You’ve heard of “Run Jane Run”?
Interviewer: Yeah, sure
When that was coming into town, in Fort Wayne, we’d be part of that, because our girls
would get into the golf tournaments and stuff. 32:02 That worked for a lot of years,
going to Fort Wayne, but we had people there to do that.
Interviewer: After the first reunion, when did it start to become more of a public—
when did you start becoming more into the public? When you were in baseball,
obviously, you were part of the public, because the public came out to see you and
55
�they wanted your autograph and all that, but then you had this twenty years where
you‟re working in the bank and your sister‟s working in the bank, people are
married and they‟re having kids and all that, and now you have this reunion, and
people have reunions because they want to get together and share the experiences
they went through, so that‟s something special. When did you start to realize that
the public was starting to, then or even earlier, know that this was something
special?
I think the public didn’t get involved until we went to Cooperstown. 33:03 We were
admitted into Cooperstown, and of course, that became public all over the country, and
then that’s when Penny Marshall got a hold of it and said, “Let’s make a movie”.
Interviewer: Let‟s back up just a little bit. Did you ever have—I can tell just by
talking to you in this interview that you didn‟t exactly toot your own horn and say,
“I‟m this and I‟m that”, it‟s just not you, but did people know that you played
baseball when you were in the bank, for example? Where there people that come up
to you and asked for your autograph?
Back then they weren’t asking for autographs. People knew and it wasn’t something you
talked about every day, and of course, for a lot of years I was still involved in softball, so
I was going to tournaments and going out of town to play ball, but being from Muskegon
and living there and having a team there at one time, those people always knew that we
played ball with the girls. 34:04 So, that was always a known fact, because we were
local.
Interviewer: But the change really happened when you got inducted into the
Baseball Hall of Fame. How did that happen?
56
�I think one of our women started working on that and then when it became known, there
were several players that wanted to be inducted all by themselves. They thought they
should be the only ones that should be in it, not the rest, well people that were running it
didn’t agree with that. They said, “We’ll all go or forget it, we’re not going to work on
it”, so it had to be all of us, which was only fair, because whose going to go around and
say this one deserves to be there, but not that one.
Interviewer: So, they set a date for the formal induction. 35:00 It was going to be
at the Baseball Hall of Fame and were you invited, or was it open to anyone that
wanted to go, or how did that work out?
Well, we were invited by the hall of fame, but that’s still—you had to go there and pay
your own expenses, and somebody had to set up all this stuff to have our big banquet
there, and of course, we had to start working on places to stay. You’ve been to
Cooperstown probably?
Interviewer: I have not, but—
It’s very small, just a one horse town and they had not one third enough places. Well, we
ended up having like seven hundred people, and they couldn’t believe it. They just were
amazed, which they have been ever since, because of how popular the whole this is since
we’ve been there. 36:01 They get more inquiries about our league than anything and
they tell us that themselves.
Interviewer: So, you get the invitation that you can go to the induction and you
went, right? How did you get there?
I flew and I stayed—we didn’t have a place in Cooperstown, we stayed about twenty
miles north, and I stayed with three other girls.
57
�Interviewer: What about your sister?
She wasn’t able to go at that time. She did not go, but I went there and stayed with
friends and then we had to drive back and forth to Cooperstown, but we had to do that
anyway. We’ve been invited back since then and we’ve stayed at Syracuse, and drive in
to Cooperstown.
Interviewer: Okay, tell me about that first day of walking into the Hall of Fame.
What was—I saw the movie and I know in the actual movie they used a different
room, it wasn‟t the actual place. 37:04 But, give me a visual, show me what you
were seeing. Was there an actual ribbon cut and all that kind of thing? Well, tell us
about that.
To tell you the truth, it was so crowded, there were so many people, you just couldn’t
even get up close to see the exhibit and everything. You had to go there another time in
order to appreciate what was there, but it was fantastic. The people just were just all over
the place and Cooperstown could not believe it. It was like we took them by storm, you
know, and they still tell us that. I’ve gone back a couple of times with different groups,
eight of us one time and four of us another time, and they always tell us how wonderful it
is. That we’re there and that the people just love it and everybody that works in town
says the same thing. 38:03
Interviewer: I know it‟s going back a ways, but I‟m trying to get inside of you for a
moment. You‟re very modest, and that‟s very obvious from this interview and from
the times that we‟ve talked on the phone and what not, but please, just for the sake
of this moment—you‟re there, you‟re being inducted as a team, not you alright?
What did you feel like?
58
�Oh, I thought it was fantastic, and it’s beyond your imagination. Nothing you would
have ever dreamed of. All the years you played ball you didn’t dream of that.
Interviewer: Let me ask you what might seem like a stupid question. Why do you
think you were inducted, not you, but the team, why were you inducted into the
Baseball Hall of Fame?
Well, I think it got to the point where they had to do something about women in sports,
plus the Negro leagues. 39:03 That stuff had been put on hold too long, because the
Negro league could say the same thing. We’re, like, in the same boat they’re in and I
think that they thought it was time. And I know they’re not sorry at all that they did it, at
Cooperstown, because it has really made their place a lot more popular.
Interviewer: Did you get a chance to talk to some of the other ball players, the
women ball players, about their feelings being inducted into the Hall of Fame?
Oh yeah, everybody just was amazed, you just can’t believe it.
Interviewer: You keep saying that part and it‟s interesting that you do, because you
played the game because you loved the game, and you never thought in your wildest
dreams that it would go anywhere beyond that. 40-:02
Never
Interviewer: But, now you‟re in the Baseball Hall of Fame, which somebody‟s
telling you, whether you want to know it or not, they‟re saying, “This is something
really special”. Did it finally dawn on you that you were actually part of something
that‟s part of American history?
Well, that started the ball rolling and then the movie came along, right from that point on,
and once the movie came out that just broke it all and it’s just been wild ever since.
59
�Interviewer: Then the world knew about it, and the world recognized something
that you didn‟t even recognize, that you did something extra ordinary with your
teammates.
Yes, and we hear about it every day now, and we go out and tell the history of our league
to different groups, talk to young kids, third graders, little girls that play ball, give
autographs, you know, give them—and of course we have our own baseball cards, and
we pass out baseball cards. 41:08 Anybody, any age group that we go to, just can’t stop
thanking us enough for what we have done for women’s sports.
Interviewer: Going back to baseball cards, and I want to get back to this, but did
you have baseball cards when you were playing?
No, that came about after all this. I can’t tell you what year, but it hasn’t been all that
many years, maybe ten or fifteen at the most.
Interviewer: What do you think was the overall effect of this league , looking back
now, and now you‟ve gone through this period where you‟d played ball and didn‟t
realize you were doing something extra ordinary, and now the world is telling you
that you did something extra ordinary and it hasn‟t gone to your head I noticed, but
let‟s really take this moment. 42:08 What does it mean to you, personally, what
does it mean to you, this experience you went through and now you‟ve seen the
reaction of the entire world? They made a movie about it. When you were
seventeen and going to the movies, the movies were up there, you weren‟t a movie,
you were just a seventeen year old. What does it mean to you to look back now?
What does it mean to you, this whole experience you went through?
60
�Well, I don’t know if it means a lot in my life. I mean I don’t have any gains by it or
anything. I enjoy being popular and that everybody else enjoys it. I like to talk about it
and give them all the history that I can give them; I enjoy that part of it. I never sit back
and think, “Look at me, I’m something”. 43:04 I’m just glad I’m part of it and can do
what I can do for girls in sports today.
Interviewer: On a final note, I always ask this of every veteran, if they‟re in battle
or not in battle or from that period of time. Looking back, I know that you said
thought this interview that you really didn‟t know that it would ever turn out like
this, that this would have that kind of positive—and that‟s what it comes down to, a
very positive effect on women and little girls and what not, and in your wildest
dreams you said you never knew this was going to happen. Can you, somewhere
inside of you, can you—is there any glimmer that somewhere back then you knew
you were doing something that might turn into something like this? Was there any
glimmer at all back then?
No, no
Interviewer: But, were you that surprised when it happened? 44:04
Yes, I worked many years after all of this and never talked about it with people. But,
being local, people knew about it, but it was not something you discussed. You never
said, “Look at me, I played ball, I played pro ball”. It was just a part of your life and it
was in the past. If they didn’t know about it, no problem, but in Muskegon lots of people
knew about it, so it was hard to get away from it, because people who had gone to the
ball games still were living. You would, like, go to the store and you’d see fellows that
had been going to the ball games, and they’d yell at ya, “Hey”, and they remembered that
61
�you were one of the ones that played ball and that’s before any of this stuff ever came
out, and I really enjoyed that with people, or even today with people that are older, but
they were young kids then. 45:08 They would say, “I remember, I used to be part of the
gang that went there”, so it’s fun.
Interviewer: One final question and it‟s going to be a tough one, because I‟m pretty
sure you don‟t think in these terms, but can you try on this one? What do you think
the legacy of the women‟s baseball is, what‟s it left behind, what‟s the legacy of what
you all did?
I hope we opened up sports for girls. I hope we helped with the Title IX. I feel like we
did, the way sports has taken hold in all the high schools and college, for women, and I
think we opened the door, and I think they’ll tell you that, a lot of the other ones that are
in pro sports will tell you that. 46:10 I was in Cooperstown on a visit when a lady was
there with her grandchildren, and she was part of Title IX from the very beginning. She
said, “I’m just amazed to meet you girls. To think that I met you and you were part of
that league”. She said, “I don’t believe it”, and here she’s worked on Title Nine all her
life and she was just dumb founded that she was introduced to us. I think that’s a great
feeling.
Interviewer: Well, it‟s been an honor talking with you.
Well, thank you
Interviewer: Thank you so much.
I appreciate it 47:00
62
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Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Interviews
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League was started by Philip Wrigley, owner of the Chicago Cubs, during World War II to fill the void left by the departure of most of the best male baseball players for military service. Players were recruited from across the country, and the league was successful enough to be able to continue on after the war. The league had teams based in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan, and operated between 1943 and 1954. The 1954 season ended with only the Fort Wayne, South Bend, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Rockford teams remaining. The League gave over 600 women athletes the opportunity to play professional baseball. Many of the players went on to successful careers, and the league itself provided an important precedent for later efforts to promote women's sports.
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-58)</a>
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Sports for women
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives
Oral history
Baseball players--Minnesota
Baseball players--Indiana
Baseball players--Wisconsin
Baseball players--Michigan
Baseball players--Illinois
Baseball for women--United States
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401
Identifier
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RHC-58
Format
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video/mp4
application/pdf
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-10-02
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-58_DCook0176BB
Title
A name given to the resource
Cook, Doris (Interview outline and video), 2010
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Cook, Doris
Description
An account of the resource
Doris Cook was born in Muskegon, Michigan in 1931. She grew up in a large family and played baseball and other sports. When a women's professional baseball team moved to Muskegon in 1946, her older sister tried out and joined the team. Doris then joined the league after finishing high school in 1949, and played first for the Springfield Sallies, a barnstorming team, and then for the Kalamazoo Lassies and the South Bend Blue Sox, and played through the 1953 season. She initially expected to be an outfielder, but when she had some problems running, she was converted to a pitcher, and was a pitcher throughout her professional career.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (Interviewer)
WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Video recordings
All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives
Baseball for women--United States
Baseball
Sports for women
Baseball players--Illinois
Baseball players--Indiana
Baseball players--Michigan
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2010-08-04
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-55)</a>
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/486c17b6a6d180bde74f95b651c99ed5.mp4
279e2336a2f626ed13aa05fcf6fd282d
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/efcaedc379d115b3857813192421e2fc.pdf
b79ff69161726942fbe90bce9e746bfe
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Jack and Eileen Cooley
(00:59:09)
(00:03) Pre-Enlistment
• Interviewer is Charlie Collins. (00:03)
• Jack’s full name is Jack William Cooley. He was born October 19th, 1924 in
Rockwood, MI. (00:25)
• Eileen Cooley was born in Interlochen, MI, May 15th, 1924. Her maiden name
was Korby, which is a Finnish name. Her father was a Finnish immigrant.
• (01:55) Jack went to school for K-8 in Rockwood. Rockwood is about eleven
miles north of Monroe, Michigan. At the time, they were called the “downriver
rats.” His house was on the Huron River. His father worked for ford in Flatrock,
working on R-28 engines. (00:42)
• Eileen’s mother died of anemia when she was six. Anemia is now a curable
disease. When her mother died, Eileen went to live with her aunt and uncle in
Trenton until her father adjusted. Her father was a section manager for the MNE
(Manistee North East) railroad. Later on he worked Nikkema, and then Norwalk.
(03:00)
• Her brother went to her grandparents, and went to High School in Mesick, MI.
(04:52)
• Jack doesn’t remember much of his childhood school. It was a small school.
They moved to Trenton when he was in the 8th grade. He and Eileen went to the
same high school starting in 1938, and they graduated in 1941. (06:05)
• Jack worked at Lincoln Park Tool and Gauge when the Pearl Harbor attacks
occurred. He was sixteen and worked seventy hours a week. (06:32)
• Eileen was in a movie theatre at the time. The theatre manager came out during
the show and advised everyone that Pearl Harbor had been attacked. He also
advised all navy personnel to return to base. (05:52)
• Jack graduated High School at the age of sixteen. He started school a year early.
(07:33)
• Jack and Eileen knew each other at school, but weren’t dating at the time. They
were in the same group of friends and often went out as a group. Eileen went to
prom with Malcom Elias, and Jack went with Elma. Jack was in the hospital
recovering from an accident, and thinks he disappointed his date. He still feels
somewhat bad about it. (07:52)
• During his senior year, Jack had been at a dinner for the sports team. On the way
home he went through a side street and another driver hit him. He woke up in the
hospital with a police officer at the end of his bed. The officer informed him that
the other man had died in the accident. Jack does not remember the accident, but
he does remember the ambulance ride because one of his classmates was the
driver. His classmate did not recognize him, but he was covered in blood. (09:08)
�•
Jack worked at the factory as a “precision gauge finisher.” His job was to bring
gauges down to the exact size after they had been lathed and worked. He used a
johansen block to make the measurements. It was a good job. (10:43)
(12:36) Enlistment and Training
• Jack tried to be a pilot for the Air Force because he wanted to be a “big shot.” He
failed the physical because of his bad depth perception. Later, he was drafted in
1943, after finishing his first year of school at the University of Michigan. He
was an Aeronautical Engineering major. (12:36)
• He had his physical in Detroit a month after being drafted. He was then sent to
Fort Custer for a week. Next, he was sent on a train to Grenada, MS. He was not
informed it was going to Grenada, and had hoped it would stop somewhere else.
He was assigned to the 167th Combat Engineering Battalion. (13:37)
• The men built their own base at Camp McCain. The area was very dry and
barren. It did not rain often, but when it rained it rained hard. One day it rained
and the six feet deep drainage ditches overflowed. He learned to march with
muddy boots and dust in his eyes. The blue clay in the area made digging a
foxhole hard work. Aside from the weather conditions it was not too bad. (14:48)
• During his early training he was taught how to build a bridge over water, or over a
canyon. They had high quality equipment; most of it was kept on a truck. They
had band saws, circular saws, drills, and other items. They would pull into the
woods and use the tools to cut down trees and make them into bridges. They built
a bridge on the Yazoo River. (16:11)
• He finished Basic with that outfit. He was then given three choices. He could go
out as a first sergeant for a new Battalion, or he could go to OCS or ASTP. He
choice to go to ASTP (Army Specialized Technical Program) as it was training
for engineers, which was what he wanted to do anyway. The patch for the group
was the “lamp of knowledge.” (17:25)
• The engineering school was in St.Louis, Missouri. He was in the program for
three months, and then it was shut down due to an infantry shortage. When he
enrolled in ASTP he had to give up his rank of corporal, so he was back in the
infantry as a private. (18:14)
• His group was shipped to Camp Hope in Louisiana. He was sent to practice
maneuvers in his new shoes, which were not suited to it. They built foxholes as
well. His group spent three days without food because of a supply problem; it
was the most miserable part of his service experience. (18:58)
• At the end of the three days, they were given C rations. At the time, they tasted
very good. Some of the men put their rations in the fire to warm them and they
exploded. They learned to poke holes in them to let expanding air escape. He
frequently had SPAM in the service, but has not had it since. (20:06)
(21:22) Eileen’s Education
• Eileen had wanted to be a nurse, but couldn’t enroll in the program because she
was only seventeen. She worked at Owen’s Drug Store and earned three dollars a
week. Of that, she saved about two dollars and put it into the bank. Her bank was
the “People’s Bank.” She was later accepted into the Early Hospital in Flint,
�•
Michigan. In the meantime, the US Nurse Corps started up, and she signed up.
She was then sent to Wayne State with other nurses who represented other
hospitals in the area. They studied Anatomy, Physiology, Chemistry and Biology.
Her education was paid for by the government, as were her uncomfortable white
shoes. When she graduated she bought new shoes. (21:22)
After graduating, she had to have her toe operated on, probably because of the bad
shoes. She was not sent to active duty in the Nurse Corps because the war ended
shortly after she graduated. She basically had a free education, except for her
cape and uniform—which was why she had worked at the drugstore. She
graduated in 1945. Jack was on leave from the Army and came to visit her.
Francis Rosthorn, Eileen’s friend, had told Jack to call her. They went dancing,
despite her bad foot, and Jack’s combat boots. (24:50)
(27:10) Active Duty
• Jack was shipped to a temporary base at Camp Hope. He was assigned to the 2nd
Battalion, 114th Infantry, 44th Division. He was at Camp Hope for about three
months ,and then shipped to Camp Phillips in Kansas. He was trained to be a
mortar gunner at Smokey Hill Air Base. Army planes flew through the firing
field, but they weren’t hit. (27:10)
• His group was sent out about two or three months after D-Day. They were sent to
Boston to be transported by ship. The ships still experienced problems from time
to time with German Uboats. He remembers feeling the sides of the boat vibrate
when they dropped depth charges. He was in D-Deck, very far down. It tool
seven days for them to cross. He thinks the boat was a General class, but doesn’t
recall. (28:54)
• They went to St. Germain Tunibert [?] and stayed about a month. They were sent
to join up with the 7th Army in Southern France. They spent most of the time
there, and were attacked twice. Once on Thanksgiving, by a force of 22 Panther
Tanks, and two infantry regiments [this seems to have been the fight at
Schalbach—ed.]. The anti-tank outfit used 90mm guns to take out the tanks, and
destroyed seven of them. The German infantry also took heavy losses, and they
retreated. The Sherman tanks 75mm guns could not take out the Panthers. The
siege lasted about a day, early morning to late afternoon. (30:35)
• After the battle, they stayed in the same general area. They were sent to [?],
which was a “hairy situation.” Roosevelt did not want the troops there, but De
Gaulle was convinced if they pulled out the Germans would annihilate them. Jack
agrees with De Gaulle. They were housed in an insane asylum, which wasn’t all
that bad because it was dry. (32:56)
• He ran into members from his old outfit who had had a rough time. They had
been repairing the Moselle railroad for Patton. One of the squad leaders had died
after being hit in the head with shrapnel from a mortar. (33:49)
• When the Battle of the Bulge began, Patton pulled everyone North. His outfit was
sent to cover Patton’s flank. The Germans attempted to use Operation North
Wind against Patton, and then tried attacking the flank. Jack once fired 2400
shells out of his 80mm mortar, and became very hot. He also burned out a BAR.
The flank was not hit as hard as the main assault. (35:07)
�(37:20) Camps
• Next he was sent throughout France, and then Germany. He remembers Ulm,
Germany in particular. His group came across a BMW factory with a fleet of
motorcycles in a square of about thirty feet by one hundred feet. They had to
burn them so the Germans couldn’t use them. He feels somewhat bad about
burning them. Then they were sent to smaller towns in Germany. He was sent to
Nuremburg, and they helped liberate Dachau. (37:20)
• He entered Dachau, and he often wishes he had not. There were still some
prisoners in the camp; they were all in very bad condition. German civilians in
the area pleaded ignorance when questioned about the camps. An American
general, possibly Gen. Patch, made them dig mass graves. Some of the civilians
killed themselves after digging the graves. Jack remembers that the camp gave
him nightmares, and the evils of the camp made him angry. (38:50)
• Later on they found a POW camp at Bad Orb, Germany. The prisoners in that
camp were half-starved or worse. The men from his unit gave them all their Crations, which they ate gladly. The camp was for enlisted men only, and was
mixed amongst Americans, French, Americans and other nationalities. (40:49)
• Earlier the men in the 106th Division in the POW camp had been made to march
in snow with no boots. (41:39)
(42:10) More Active Duty in Europe
• Next, Jack went South to the Black Forest and then to Reutte, Austria. They were
chasing a small force of retreating Germans. They made it all the way to Bretter
Pass in Italy, and then the war ended. Para-troopers took Berchtesgaden. (42:10)
• Austria was also a “hairy situation.” The Germans had artillery, and it was a
continuous battle for about two weeks. (43:05)
(43:31) Post-War
• After serving in Europe he was sent home on the Queen Elizabeth. They landed
in New Jersey, and were sent to Fort Dix. They were going to be trained to serve
in Japan. The men were fattened up on good food, and could have all the milk
they wanted. German POWs were made to wait on them, and clean up after them.
(43:31)
• Jack was initially on R&R (Rest and Relaxation) and was home about three
weeks. He received a telegram calling him back to Fort Smith, Arkansas. (44:40)
• He was nearly sent to Japan as a recoil-less rifleman, but instead he was
discharged. He was discharged on November 17th, 1945 at Camp Gruber in
Oklahoma. He was still serving when the Atom Bombs were dropped in Japan.
(45:28)
• When he got home he called Eileen. At the time, Eileen was working afternoons
and they began going out after finished her shift. (46:48)
• They married 1947. Jack went back to school in 1946 to Lawrence Technology
with the help of the GI Bill. Eileen worked at Chrysler. (47:24)
• Jack graduated in June 1950. They had their first daughter Christine that August.
She was born while they lived in a flat at Highland Park. They lived in the upperstory flat. They bought a house on 14% interest—another benefit of the GI Bill.
�•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
They lived in that house for fourteen years. Six years after Christine was born
they had a second daughter named Suzette Cherry. Jack named the second
daughter. (48:25)
Next they moved to South Rockwood. Jack’s parents gave them some land and
they had a house built. Jack worked for J.N. Farmer Company installing
lubrication machines. He had taken the job because they gave him the impression
that a management job would become available later on. After about four months
he realized there was no management job and quit. Eileen remembers the grease
he was covered in everyday. (49:59)
Next Jack worked for Holly Carburetors. He worked in the Air Force division
and trained men in the Air Force how to maintain the engines in their planes. He
worked there for three and a half years and then went to Ford Motors. (51:18)
Jack worked in Ford’s Mercury Aircraft Division in Romulus, MI. He worked as
a liaison with the military for about a year. The military, either the Army or the
Air Force, cancelled the contract later on because they no longer wanted J-40
engines. After that, Jack was sent to the Steel Division. He worked in on cost
analysis and helped design the passageway for visitors. (52:06)
Jack went back to Holly for a year, and then came back to Ford to work in the
Truck Division. This time he stayed there for twenty-five and a half years.
(53:17)
Eileen stayed home with their daughters, and did not pursue a career in nursing.
It was a necessity at the time because Jack was often out of town for work.
(53:37)
Jack joined the Masons in 1946, and has been one for sixty two years. In 1950 his
grandmother gave him money to join the Shriners, which he joined with his
father. He played in the band for thirty-four years. (54:47)
Eileen joined the Stars. Both of their mothers were matrons with the Stars.
(55:50)
Jack went back to school later to learn more about production. He went to night
school for six years and graduated with a second degree in engineering. (56:48)
Jack usually left home for work at around 5:30 AM and went to the East Side of
Detroit for work. He got out of work around 5:00 PM and then went to school
until 11:00 AM. He still made time for all the organizations. (56:43)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cooley, Jack and Eileen (Interview outline and video), 2007
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Cooley, Jack and Eileen
Description
An account of the resource
Jack Cooley served in the US Army between 1943 and 1946. He initially trained as an engineer, and then went into the ASTP engineer training program, and then was switched to the infantry when the program was shut down. He served as a mortarman with the 44th Infantry Division in France, Germany and Austria in late 1944 and 1945 and recounts several battles with German armor, infantry and artillery in the later stages of the war. Eileen relates her experiences on the home front during the same period.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer)
Collins, Carol (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
United States. Army
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Video recordings
Women
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2007-05-22
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
CooleyJE
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/126138f799fba9e10ede9632c53b83c5.mp4
498dfa695f71c3b5806c93c0c3f2c4d3
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/de00fc575d3f16f166477424107b23c0.pdf
cd04d5bb24a751fd0ce695f808b35df1
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
James Cooley
Iraq War
Total Time: 25:30
Childhood and Pre-Enlistment (00:25)
•
•
•
•
•
Born in Wyoming, MI
Joined the Army in March, 2003 at age 17
He joined the day after the United States invaded Iraq
Joined because he wanted to serve the country and that they would help pay for
school.
Joined the National Guard because he was not old enough to be in the Regular
Army,
Training (02:13)
•
Basic Training was 13 weeks long during the summer between his Junior and
Senior years of High School at Fort Benning, GA.
Active Duty (03:55)
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
In Iraq, worked in a transportation unit. He operated a 50 caliber machine gun on
a truck with guarded the convoys.
Arrived in Kuwait at an airstrip and then boarded a bus which convoyed up to
Camp Taji in Central Iraq.
He was awarded the Army Commendation Medal.
He was able to stay in touch with his family by letters, by phone, and email.
His duty was to keep the trucks up to standard and keep their weapons in working
order.
They would run their missions at night, and during the day he would watch
movies and eat junk food.
Spent most of his time traveling around Kuwait and Iraq.
Didn’t really interact with the local population while he was there.
He was in the same company as his brother, and he trained the Iraqi Army.
Return Home (0:20:50)
•
•
•
He flew from Iraq to Fort Riley, KS and then to Grand Rapids when he came
home.
Got a job upon returning home, and then began attending Grand Rapids
Community College a month later.
Due for another year long deployment.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cooley, James (Interview outline and video), 2007
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Cooley, James
Description
An account of the resource
James Cooley joined the Army National Guard in 2003 at age 17, and served in the Iraq War. He worked in transportation while he was there, specifically he operated the .50 caliber machine gun on a truck that guarded convoys. He served a yearlong deployment, and at the time of the interview is scheduled for another year tour of duty.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Lenartz, Michelle (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Army
Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2007-05-29
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
CooleyJ
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0d3bc190fb0364a98e34d7ae969e5cfb.mp4
e6a74ffc2c530a3eee53105a6234c111
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1a6371fb060feedf3303f42573d1f3b3.pdf
0ae773cdcdd2f24232d685b7d31f2a1a
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans' History Project
James Cooley
Iraq War
43 minutes 39 seconds
(00:00:24) Early Life
-Born on March 6, 1986
-Grew up in Caledonia, Michigan
-Involved in sports in high school
(00:00:44) Enlisting in the Army Pt. 1
-Shortly after he turned 17 years old an Army recruiter called him about enlisting
-This was in 2003
-Sister had joined the Army six months prior to him turning to 17
-Father served in the Air Force, grandfather in the Marines, and cousins also served in the Army
-Patriotic duty, family history of service, and paid-for college encouraged him to enlist
(00:01:44) Training
-Took basic training at Fort Benning, Georgia in the summer before senior year of high school
-Came back home and completed high school after taking basic training
-Received Advanced Individual Training after graduating from high school
-Completed his AIT and received a month of leave before deploying to Iraq
-Basic training was a different experience, but a great experience
-Learned how to shoot a rifle, throw grenades, and rappel down walls in basic training
-Highly competitive atmosphere during basic training
-Didn't know what to expect when he started basic training
(00:03:15) First Deployment to Iraq Pt. 1
-On his first deployment to Iraq he worked in transportation
-Drove trucks between bases delivering food, supplies, ammunition, and vehicles
-Average daytime temperature was around 130o
-Body armor and fatigues made it feel like 145o
-Hard to breathe outside
-A lot of the missions took place at night when the temperature was between 100o and 110o
-Had to contend with dust storms and the rainy season
-Found that the majority of Iraqis lived in mud huts with tin roofs
-There was trash everywhere and civilians formed little villages in the garbage dumps
-Made him more grateful to live in the United States
-Civilians weren't hostile
-Most appreciated the American presence
-Insurgents coerced civilians into fighting the Americans
-Threatened with their family being executed
-Initial mission in Iraq was to depose Saddam Hussein and secure the Iraq/Afghanistan border
-Didn't think about the politics of the mission
-Just tried to do his job and do the most good as possible
-Helped vaccinate Iraqis and provide them with better healthcare and better schools
-At the time he was still angry about 9/11 and it was a huge motivator for him as an 18 year old
-There was a lot of ambiguity when it came to combat in Iraq
-In a convoy they had limited defenses if attacked by Insurgents
-Improvised explosive devices (IEDs) were a common threat to convoys
�-Insurgents used hit-and-run style attacks with rifles and rocket propelled grenades (RPGs)
-There were a lot of situations where they had to engage in combat despite not being infantry
-Felt nervous on his first convoys, but he grew more confident
-Trucks did not have armor on his first deployment
-Lined the bottoms of the trucks with sandbags to give them protection against IEDs
-If you were running 15 minutes early or 15 minutes late you might avoid an ambush
-In that case the Insurgents hit the convoy before his or the one that came after his
-Created a sense of invincibility at cheating death
-Learned to accept the randomness of death
-Easier to accept the prospect of your own death than the death of comrades
-Made close friends and they became like brothers
-Still friends with them
-Has stood at their weddings, spends time with them, and closer than his civilian friends
-Found a lot of his stress on his first deployment came from leadership problems
-Being ordered to do something you wouldn't have to do if not given an order to do it
(00:14:37) Coming Home Pt. 1
-Struggled more with coming home than the actual deployment
-Brother was in the same unit as him which made the deployment easier
(00:15:11) Deployments
-First deployment lasted almost a year
-Second deployment lasted nine months
-Two years between deployments
-On both deployments he went with his brother
(00:15:45) Combat in Iraq
-Didn't know who the enemy was in Iraq
-Combat was similar to the Vietnam War
-Had to abide by the Rules of Engagement
-Not allowed to fire unless shot at by a combatant holding a weapon and shooting at them
-Hesitated to shoot at the enemy
-Afraid of accidentally killing a civilian and being sent to jail
-Just wanted to defend his convoy and go home alive
-Insurgents hid among civilians
(00:18:20) Coming Home Pt. 2
-Spent a total of 18 months in Iraq for both deployments
-Friends from high school had gone to college, so he had no friends around when he came home
-Veteran friends lived all over the country, so it was difficult to connect with them
-When in Iraq someone was always ready to do something no matter the time
-Civilian friends were busy with their own lives and couldn't meet up at any time
(00:19:45) Enlisting in the Army Pt. 2
-Parents were scared, but supported him
-Mother signed the paperwork allowing him to enlist as a 17 year old
(00:20:10) Second Deployment to Iraq
-On his second deployment he was a Detainee Payroll Manager
-Gave him experience with computers and he had an associate's degree
-Allowed him to get practical job experience for a civilian job
-Some men were able to bring skills home while others were not so fortunate
(00:22:24) Post Traumatic Stress Disorder Pt. 1
-Had mild post traumatic stress disorder
-Optimistic personality helped him cope with the PTSD
�-Had trouble with heavy drinking every night when he came home
-Unhealthy part of his life
-Counts himself lucky for overcoming his PTSD
-On average, 22 veterans commit suicide every day
-Has met veterans struggling with more PTSD
(00:23:40) Reenlisting
-As of 2015 he is trying to reenlist as an officer
-Service related injuries might prohibit from reenlisting though
(00:24:00) Post Traumatic Stress Disorder Pt. 2
-Moved in with a friend and they had deep conversations about the war and his service
-Helped him cope with his PTSD by having those conversations
-Speaks at colleges about his time in the Army and in Iraq
-Also helps him by talking about his experiences
(00:24:53) Changes in the 2000s
-Had Myspace, AOL Instant Messenger, email, and letters to communicate with home
-Now, soldiers have a wider variety of ways of keeping in touch with family and friends
-Realizes that a lot of younger people don't remember the September 11th Attacks
(00:25:47) Reflections on Service Pt. 1
-Learned to take a situation and make it positive
-You chose to make the situation positive or negative
-A lot of learning opportunities in Iraq
-Learning how to control emotions
-Learning to make important decisions as a young man
-Grew up quickly
(00:27:10) First Deployment to Iraq Pt. 2
-Iraq is roughly the size of California
-Moved supplies from base to base all over the country
-Longest mission was 17 hours of travel without any breaks
-Southern Iraq is mostly desert while northern Iraq is more mountainous
-Rainy season caused more problems in the north than in the south
-Water and oil on the roads made travel hazardous
-Difficult driving at night because of sleep deprivation
-Caused accidents
-Given free Red Bull to help the soldiers stay awake
-Had only a few engagements with enemy forces
-Convoys were intimidating which kept away enemy forces
-Had .50 caliber machine guns and Mark 19 automatic grenade launchers
-Truck itself was imposing
-At the time they were trying to help look for the sniper al-Zarqawi
-Pulled some guard tower duty at bases
-Insurgents tried to use drive-by attacks to hit bases
-Guard towers lined the roads and each guard tower had a radio in it
-Allowed guards to report an enemy vehicle and intercept it down the line
-Insurgents were unorganized thugs and untrained civilian conscripts
-At first, he feared Iraqi children coming up to him
-Learned they weren't a threat and usually just wanted candy from a soldier
-Had to be cautious though
-Insurgents used women, disabled people, and children as suicide bombers
�(00:32:40) Opinion of Islamic State in Iraq and Syria
-Feels that the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) is an abomination
-Funded by the sex slave trade
-Carries out brutal executions
-Could have been snubbed quickly had the U.S. stayed in Iraq
-Iraqi government wasn't stable enough to hold off ISIS
-U.S. leaving created a power vacuum for ISIS to occupy
-Will probably have to send in ground troops to Iraq, again
-ISIS will probably not just go away and the longer they exist, the more resilient they'll become
(00:34:16) Advice to Future Soldiers
-Before you join, pick a job that will give you experience in the civilian workplace
-Try to do something that you'll enjoy in the Army, and enjoy as a civilian
- Stay positive
-In the Army you can gain rank relatively quickly
-If you want to go to college first, join the Reserve Officers' Training Corps
-Will allow you to enter the Army with the rank of 2nd lieutenant
-Have more leadership responsibilities and have more influence
-Army needs more officers with experience and good leadership abilities
-As experienced officers leave they're being replaced with incompetent officers
(00:36:43) Iraqi Civilians
-Civilians wanted to help, but were afraid of retaliation from Insurgents
-Tried to give soldiers tips whenever possible
-A lot of civilians just wanted to live their lives
(00:38:15) First Deployment to Iraq Pt. 3
-During the first couple weeks he had trouble staying calm
-There were still unsecured cities in 2004/2005
-When he returned to Iraq in 2008/2009 those cities had been secured
-At least once a week Insurgents tried to attack bases
-Infiltrators, mortar attacks, rocket attacks, or drive-by attacks
-Got desensitized to it
-Remembers one soldier watching a war movie on his laptop in the middle of the night in the barracks
-Quickly instituted a headphone rule at night after that
-Slept outside when they were at other bases
-No light pollution allowed him to see every star in the sky
-Better than sleeping in dirty transit barracks
-Slept on the top of the engine compartment to keep warm
-Days started with checking the trucks
-Made sure the tires and engines were in working order and if they needed any maintenance
-Kept the trucks ready to go at a moment's notice
-If he had no other duties or no mission to go on then the rest of the day was his
(00:42:23) Reflections on Service Pt. 2
-Doesn't regret joining the Army
-Great for him at that point in his life
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
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1914-
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
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Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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CooleyJ1820V
Title
A name given to the resource
Cooley, James Peter (Interview outline and video), 2015
Description
An account of the resource
James Cooley was born on March 6, 1986 and grew up in Caledonia, Michigan. In 2003 he enlisted in the Army. He received basic training at Fort Benning, Georgia and after that Advanced Individual Training. He deployed to Iraq and served with a transportation unit, moving food, ammunition, supplies, and vehicles to bases around the country. He also helped with the distribution of humanitarian aid to Iraqi civilians. After nearly a year he returned to the United States and spent two years in the United States. He redeployed to Iraq and worked as a Detainee Payroll Manager. His first tour was in 2004-2005 and his second tour was in 2008-2009. His enlistment ended after his second tour, but as of 2015 he is trying to reenlist as an officer.
Creator
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Cooley, James Peter
Contributor
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Vansuilichem, Michael (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
United States. National Guard
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Language
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eng
Date
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2015-05-21
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
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application/pdf
video/mp4
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a4c8094a15c501bd9eb73b7c9b26f17f.mp4
0e4efa9fad395faa196c284a08bc2c22
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e8cc5601f5f62e794e13e762253cf770.pdf
c0389d24038f070c83471e973f3ec7ca
PDF Text
Text
ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW
Veterans History Project
Robert Cooley
Born: Detroit, Michigan, 1922
Resides:
Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, Grand Valley State University Veterans History
Project..
Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, July 17 2011
Interviewer: Mr. Cooley, can you start by giving us a little bit of background on
yourself? Where were you born?
I was born in Detroit, Michigan.
Interviewer: What year?
1922
Interviewer: And what did your family do?
My father was a carpenter and my mother was a housewife, and that was pretty basic
Interviewer: Now, did you live in the city of Detroit or in the suburbs?
Well, we moved around a lot because construction worked moved him different places
and we kind of moved where he was working and followed up from there. :47
Interviewer: Did you finish high school?
No
Interviewer: When did you leave school?
In 1939
Interviewer: Why did you leave school at that point before finishing?
I thought I was a lot smarter than what I was, but at that time things were a little bit tight
and I didn’t have to work or anything, but I did. I went out and found what I could in the
way of a job. 1:21
1
�Interviewer: What kind of work did you do?
A little bit of everything generally. In the wintertime you shoveled snow and in the
summer you did lawns for customers and stuff like that. It was all manual labor.
Interviewer: Did you give some of that money to your parents to help support the
family or did you just support yourself with it?
I just supported myself with it for the most part.
Interviewer: At what point did you decide to join the army?
Well, the work dried up and there wasn’t anything. We had a slight recession in the
country at that particular time and it seems like we’re still living with it, but I mean at
that time there was no work and rather than go back home again I decided that I would go
in the army. 2:18
Interviewer: So, had you been living away from home while you were working?
Yes
Interviewer: So, you joined the army and about when was that?
January of 1940
Interviewer: At that point were you aware there was a war going on in Europe and
it might get us involved in it some day?
Not really, I didn’t give it much thought at all. I don’t think it would have made any
difference at that point in my life anyhow as far as---when you’re seventeen you can lick
the world. 2:50
Interviewer: Did you need your parents' permission to enlist at that age?
Yes, I had to have a signature from my mother to enlist. My father had passed on at that
time.
2
�Interviewer: What did your mother think of the idea?
She was all for it really. She could see that I needed a little more toughening up in order
to get along in this world and I think that’s what really brought it down to that point when
she figured the three years, which was the term of enlistment at that time, that it would
help me, so she was for it. 3:29
Interviewer: Where did they send you once you enlisted?
I went to Fort Wayne, which was in Detroit on Livernois Ave. a supply depot or
something and I think it’s still there today. I was down there for most of the year.
Interviewer: What did you do there?
Basically drilling and studying tactics work, tactics schooling and stuff like that. It was a
normal way that you would go in the army, the tac formations and stuff like that.
Interviewer: So, you’re practicing sort of battlefield tactics and that sort of thing.
What size units were doing that, squads or companies?
That is not a big fort, so usually squad formations or a platoon at the most. That was the
way the set-up works. 4:27
Interviewer: How many guys were in there with you doing the same kind of
training you were?
We had the whole 2nd Infantry Regiment which was—what is there, about 150 people to a
company, so we had—I take that back, we had the 2nd Infantry, so we actually had one,
two, three, four companies and that’s-Interviewer: Basically one Battalion, yes, and at this point the 5th had been an
infantry ivision, they had been decommissioned after World War One, so the
regiment may not have belonged to anything else at that time.
3
�Not at that time as I recall. No, I take that back because I recall we still had the 5th
Division diamond patch on our shoulder, so we were still part of the 5th Division, but
don’t ask me how. 5:21
Interviewer: Well, the army sort of kept skeleton structures of various sorts and
functional in different ways and the 5th was a regular army division, so it existed in
some form and the 2nd would be part of the core of that when it went forward. How
did the drill sergeants treat you?
They were tough back at that time, but they weren’t anything like marine drill sergeants.
Or anything like that, but you learned what had to be done and you marched to the order
that they called for, but I didn’t think it was anything hard or unusual or anything like
this. It was anything any average person could have learned. 6:04
Interviewer: Did you have any problems with the discipline or things like that?
No, no, in Detroit it was—if you were on leave you always had someplace to go and
Detroit at that time was a soldier’s town anyhow because all the law enforcement officers
were ex-soldiers from World War One, so it worked out very well.
Interviewer: You didn’t get in too much trouble in the city then?
No, they would—you really had to get radical if you got in trouble down there because
they—I can remember occasions where they would put you in a taxi cab and check how
much money and send you home to the post rather than lock you up. It was a better
recourse than normal.
Interviewer: When did you finish up then in Fort Wayne? 7:05
We were there just that one summer and then we went to, it was Camp Custer at that
time, and became a fort afterwards. We went out to Camp Custer; in fact the first winter
4
�we were there we slept in tents, twelve by twelve tents heated with a little stove in the
middle of them.
Interviewer: Because a lot of the facilities there hadn’t been built yet.
No, the barracks hadn’t been done yet, but they were before we shipped out, but at that
time there we no barracks, no facilities except latrines of course.
Interviewer: How long did they keep you at Camp Custer?
I was there until January of 1942, after Pearl Harbor when we shipped out to Fort Dix,
New Jersey and from there we shipped out to Iceland. 7:58
Interviewer: Once you had joined the army, before Pearl Harbor, were you paying
any more attention to what was going on in the world than you had earlier? Now
that you were in the army were you thinking more about that you might have to go
someplace?
Not really because once you’re through with drilling and what not, I mean, we were
basically everybody that was in there was from eighteen to twenty-two, twenty-four years
old and it was just a time to go out and have fun by yourself. You did your drilling in the
daytime and went out at night. 8:33
Interviewer: So, how did you learn about Pearl Harbor?
When it happened, we were—where was I when Pearl Harbor came—in fact we were on
maneuvers at that time and somebody came out and said they had attacked us. I didn’t
hear about it until Monday after because I had been home on Saturday and Sunday and
Monday we were out on maneuvers and they came out and notified everybody that we
were on closedown because of the attack on Pearl Harbor. 9: 09
Interviewer: How did army life change at that point?
5
�Actually at that particular set-up it didn’t change that much except our perimeter guards
became a lot more strict. Previous to that, if you had a pass you were on your way. If
you didn’t, they checked everybody coming in and out and that was the basic change on
the thing. Anybody that was on perimeter guard, front or back, had tightened down
pretty much that you weren’t going to get in or out without somebody knowing about it.
9:51
Interviewer: Now pretty soon after that they moved you out from Fort Custer?
Yes, it was only—well, from December until January, so about a month and maybe a
month and a half at the most and we were on a train for Fort Dix, New Jersey.
Interviewer: Now, what kind of facility was that at that time?
It was a pretty big camp, I mean it was a permanent army camp, Dix was. I don’t know
how long it had been in effect or anything. We were there—I shipped out in March, so
we were there roughly three months before we were loaded on a train and taken to New
Jersey, to the ship, headed for Iceland. 10:37
Interviewer: Ok now, what kind of a ship did they put you on?
It used to be a banana boat between Cuba and New York.
Interviewer: About how big was it?
It wasn’t that big. I think we had about three companies onto it and we were loaded. It
was one of those that if we got in a storm and every time you hit a wave the screw would
come out of the water and the ship would rattle from stem to stern all the way through
and you would think it was coming apart. 11:06
Interviewer: You’re sailing the North Atlantic in the early spring, so I expect you
hit a storm or two?
6
�Oh yes, in fact we were something like—I don’t recall exactly, it seemed like it was six
or seven days longer. Of course we were all on that zigzag course to avoid U-Boats and
it took a lot longer too, but I didn’t see anything like that, but we whipped that storm and
they had made bulkheads on the decks to house the soldiers in and the storm caved them
in, a lot of them I should say, not all of them, but it caved a lot of them in on the way over
there. 11:47
Interviewer: So then did you have to pack everyone into smaller spaces below the
decks?
Yeah, yeah, this is true and food was a problem because the kitchens were small on the
boat and you got two meals a day. They started feeding at five o’clock in the morning
and they fed breakfast until eleven thirty and they would start feeding lunch at twelve
thirty and they fed until two thirty. I take that back, they fed until six thirty. They started
feeding and that was the two meals that you got for the day and everything was boiled. I
don’t care if it was steak or what it was; everything went in the boiling pot. 12:25
Interviewer: Now, about how big was the convoy you were in? Could you tell?
It was pretty good size and an actual count I wouldn’t have, but I would guess it was at
least twenty tankers. I shouldn’t say tankers, but cargo ships carrying soldiers. There
was probably at least that many more that were guarding. Battleships and cruisers, not
battleships, cruisers, we had two of them, and the rest were all destroyers guarding that
convoy. 13:01
Interviewer: Now, did you have any U-Boat scares on the trip over?
Yes, we did that, but I mean that they said they sighted U-Boats and actually I didn’t see
any and I don’t know that anybody else did. We had one destroyer that they said rammed
7
�one and I had to believe them because I didn’t see them ram it, but the front end was full
of what looked like mattresses, but it was down in the water and every time it took a
wave you didn’t see the ship. Even the radar masts were covered up onto it, but it was
interesting to watch and I wouldn’t want to have been on it. 13:42
Interviewer: Did the whole convoy go to Iceland or did certain ships peel off and go
in another direction?
No, this whole convoy went to Iceland. We went right to, in fact we entered Reykjavik
harbor and disembarked in Reykjavik and from there we were disseminated all over the
Icelandic islands. 14:02
Interviewer: Describe what Iceland was like at that point in time. What did it look
like, what were the people like?
Well, it was actually, except for Reykjavik, all of the towns—we were in a little town
called Akranes, and it was just like a little town in the states anywhere except all the
buildings were made out of concrete, of course, to withstand their winter gales and storms
and stuff they had, but the fishing, of course, was a big industry. They couldn’t grow
anything and they had what they called Icelandic ponies, which was a shaggy little horse,
and very few cows, but a lot of sheep. In fact, the army bought everything they could off
of them and sheep was the main thing they had, and of course after three or four days a
week you got awfully sick of mutton. I never cared for it anyhow, but that’s personal, but
in any case—it got to the point they would stamp it unserviceable and just dump it and
the mess officer reached the point where he wouldn’t take it. 15:26 Spam wasn’t that
good, but we’d rather have that than the mutton after a while.
8
�Interviewer: Now, did you see much of the local population in the village where you
were?
Oh yeah, there were no rules against fraternizing with the population and they used to—
after we were there for three months or so they would hold dances and stuff like that
there. Gals would come too and we’d go down to the dance and what not, but there
weren’t alcoholic beverages except what we brought in. There didn’t seem to be any
there and I don’t remember ever getting in or seeing a bar actually in Iceland at that time.
The whole island was more like a small town than it was anything else. 16:19 The city
of Reykjavik, I do recall that because the Germans had been there before the war and
their engineers had built aqueducts to bring hot water down from the glaciers and they
heated the whole town with hot water. That was one of the reasons that—actually
Iceland was pro-German before the English got there and that was the basic reason,
because they had been there and done their engineering. Laid out heating systems and
different items for them that worked out very well. 16:56
Interviewer: I was kind of wondering myself, and you probably couldn’t answer it,
but I was wondering if the attitude of Icelanders changed at all once the Germans
went and occupied Denmark and Norway? Those are Scandinavian countries the
Icelanders might have had some contact with.
Not that I recall, I mean, we didn’t—the Icelanders, the actual language they spoke was
derived from Sweden and Finland down there, but it was not that particular language, it
had it’s own inflections and it—I tried learning it and it was too tough for me to play
with, so I didn’t get into it, but the actual living there and the time zones and the way that
the winter and the summer went—in the summertime it never got dark and in the
9
�wintertime you had about four hours of daylight and to me it was interesting because I’d
never run into anything like that before. 18:01
Interviewer: Right, now what was your actual mission or assignment at that point?
Just guarding, actually. I mean, they—I was told, and I don’t know, that when the
English landed in Reykjavik, that someone had gone to the German Embassy and said,
―You better get out of here because the English are landing‖, and he said, ―No, they're
Germans‖, and whether this is true or not—I know there were Germans there first and I
know the English came in afterwards, so I had no reason to doubt it. 18:38
Interviewer: It had been an independent country, so the Germans could be there
and it was potentially a place the U-Boats could use. The Germans had weather
stations in, or tried to have them in Greenland for instance. So the British had to go
and find them too. It was certainly vital to maintaining the sea-lanes. Keeping them
open as a base for the allies at that point. How long did they have you based in
Iceland? 19:00
I went through one full winter, one full summer, and part of another winter.
Interviewer: So, it would be late 1943 or so or early 1944 when you actually ship out
from there. So, when you leave Iceland where did you go from there?
To England, and in fact, I was—I didn’t realize it at the time that we were shipped out on
the Queen Mary, which was even pretty deluxe at that time. They had stripped it, most of
it, but it was pretty deluxe and I think we were usually—I think it was a four day trip
from Iceland to England and we took seven, but we were by ourselves we were not in a
convoy or anything else. That ship led by itself. 19:48
10
�Interviewer: The ship was fast enough and they thought it was safer to do it that
way.
When we finally go into England, of course, we went to Salisbury Plain, which is actually
the least productive part of England. It was interesting—I take that back, we landed in
Scotland. We went by train to England.
Interviewer: A lot of people landed in Glasgow, which was the main point of
deportation. Now, at this point was your division now coming together? 20:28
Yes, in fact we were shipped from there to the Irish Free State and we were stationed
south of –what is that town, the capital of free Ireland?
Interviewer: Dublin?
No, Dublin is the-Interviewer: That’s the free state. You mean Northern Ireland, British Ireland?
Belfast 20:48
We were probably fifty or sixty miles south of Belfast and we were just doing field
training there. That’s when they started putting the division together in different groups.
It was interesting in the respect that I remember taking my platoon and riding the train,
guarding the train hauling ammunition across Ireland because of the IRA threatening to
blow them up. They did some, but I mean it was such a nice sooty ride. 21:34
Interviewer: They all had steam engines then?
Yes
Interviewer: Generally, were the men that you sere serving with in your platoon,
company etc., were they pretty much the same people that you had been with all
along or had new recruits been added to fill out the ranks?
11
�No, they were basically the same people that were in the company we left the states with.
We picked up one or two, but that would be about it. Our company was a full company
when we left and we were a full company when we left England to go to France. 22:09
Interviewer: What rank were you at that point?
I was a Tech Sergeant, a platoon sergeant.
Interviewer: You were a platoon sergeant at that point. What kind of
responsibilities did you have?
Well, you had an officer that headed the platoon and it was his job to take the orders from
the company commander and come down from there. He would disperse them to the
sergeants, and trying to keep track of a platoon, which is pretty tickly. Only three squads,
but me and one person to do it was almost impossible. You need two or more even, but
my duties were to just follow up his orders and make sure we stayed together and fought
together. 22:55
Interviewer: And normally you wouldn’t command an individual squad. You
might be with one, but you could go and work with any of them?
Not the squads, no, they had a Staff Sergeant command the squad at that particular time
and the only time—if the platoon leader got hit, then you would take over the platoon. If
you got hit, you had a platoon guy that would take over the platoon, which was usually a
Staff Sergeant, but he was in line for promotions. 23:25
Interviewer: Now, at what point did your division get sent over to France?
We landed, what was it, eleven days after D-Day.
Interviewer: Which beach did you land on?
The one they had all the trouble on.
12
�Interviewer: Omaha?
Omaha, yes
Interviewer: It had big bluffs overlooking it.
We landed on Omaha and it was cleared, of course, at that time. We weren’t and didn’t
get any fire. In fact, we marched, I think, probably five or six miles inland before we
reached the lines where we could get fire.
Interviewer: What did France look like to you when you got there? What condition
was the countryside in the first few miles? 24:16
Well, outside of the beaches, the rest of the country was pretty well set, I mean there were
some areas which they had bombed, and there were bomb craters there, but in general—
the towns, of course, had all been hit and they were in a state of disrepair, rack and ruin
and what have you, but when you—the countryside looked just like it always did except
it was littered with dead cows, pigs and different farm animals and stuff like this that had
been killed. 24:52
Interviewer: Probably a lot of those were killed in the bombardments etc.
Yes, I would guess that.
Interviewer: Now do you know sort of what section or area of the line you were
going into? Was it in the general area towards Saint-Lo?
It was, we went right through Saint-Lo and of course again, we didn’t fight Saint-Lo, we
just went through it. The town had been taken at that time. We went through Saint-Lo
and into the hedgerow country and from there—we were there, I don’t know, possibly a
week or so before they made the breakout and we were loaded more or less on trucks.
You would go so far forward, unload, and fight the Germans where they would holdup.
13
�If they cleared that, which they were in about full retreat about that time, we would get
back on the trucks if possible and move over. They would move another unit through us
and they would take up the—25:54
Interviewer: Now, at what point did your unit actually get into action? You landed
mid to late June and how long was it before you kind of got into the fighting?
I think it was about three days after. We were in action about three days after because
they had pulled—there was one of the divisions that hit the beach first that was pretty
well-Interviewer: The First division was in that sector and so was the 29th.
So we went right through them and too over the sector that they were in and then we
continued forward through them. 26:33
Interviewer: Can you describe what it was like going into action the first time?
Yes, I’ll tell you, being scared and knowing you had a job to do. If you were scared, it
was an earth-shaking event, I’ll tell you. Once you got both feet on the ground you
realize what you had to do, you were going to do it regardless of what it was, then it came
back down pretty much. There were some things that I learned, I meant we use to do
what I call open field drilling and we did this over and over and over again and I could
never quite figure out why there was so much of it, but you can’t think clearly when you
are under fire and you do it automatically and it works. 27:21
Interviewer: Now you were fighting, that would have been hedgerow country you
were in?
Yes
Interviewer: Did you take a while to figure out how to fight there?
14
�Yeah, actually you were usually sticking the weapon up over the thing and just firing,
except they had tanks set up to make a hole through those things, and they would make
an opening and we would break through that opening and go through the fields and head
for the next hedge. 27:55
Interviewer: Well that was happening a little later in the campaign, once they
starting fixing up the tanks to do that. When you first got in they probably weren’t
doing that yet.
No, actually when you first got there, you would find every field had an opening in it and
of course those hedgerows had been built over hundreds of years, I guess, because they
were like six or seven feet tall, or better, and five or six feet thick, but each one had an
opening and you would find that opening and spread along very carefully on the inside
and spread out to cover the field that you were going to go, and then you would all go at
once through the field to the next hedgerow. 28:30
Interviewer: But the Germans, in a lot of cases, had machine guns trained on those
openings.
They did, but on the other hand. I mean. If you go through them at night, they don’t know
that you’re going through them. If at three or four o’clock in the morning you go through
the opening, line up on the other side of the hedgerow and get ready to go when it breaks
daylight, and you’re already there, of course, if you attempt to go through them in broad
daylight, then you’re in a lot of trouble. There were many people killed trying to get
through them in daylight hours. 29:06
Interviewer: So, did you start doing a lot of fighting at night early on?
15
�Not really, most of it, I’ve got to say, was done in the daytime. We made night marches
and things that where we’d run up against not that heavy a group in front of you, the
Germans in front of you, and you’d make a night march, go forward and continue from
that point, but in most cases you waited until daylight to make your actual advance.
29:36
Interviewer: What kind of losses was your company taking at that point?
Pretty heavy, we were probably—I think I had something like oh, six, seven men to a
twelve-man squad left in my platoon and I think that was more or less universal. I mean,
these were not all deaths; the majority of them are wounds that took you out of action. I
mean they—but you could figure at least one out every one of those was going to be
permanent. 30:14
Interviewer: Now, about how quickly were you getting replacements up? Did they
come in at that stage or did they come in until long after after?
They came in after, we fought under, you know, without full complements for probably a
couple weeks or so there anyhow, and then we started getting replacements.
Interviewer: What could you do for the replacements to help them adjust?
Try to put them with one of the guys who had been there a while. Veterans who knew
what was going on as much as you could, and we have to remember they’re individuals
just like we were and they went through a training period. They knew it as well as we
did, but we’d been there and truthfully we didn’t know it. 31:00
Interviewer: As you were—how regular was the fighting in those first few weeks
before the breakout? Were you In most days or did you have a few days on and a
few days off?
16
�No, we had—actually if got to—if you fought, actually fought for two hours a day, that
was a lot because the Germans would pull back. They never sat there and once they
determined the odds were against them, they would pull out. I mean, just—they knew
what was going to happen and, of course, we had our artillery backup that they didn’t
have and they hadn’t moved their tanks in or anything at that particular point. They were
holding them over at Calais. 31:48
Interviewer: Some of them were over there and some were holding the British at
Caen, but none were in your sector particularly at all?
No
Interviewer: So, did you feel at that stage that you were actually making progress
getting somewhere, even if it was slow?
Oh yeah, yeah, this was within, that breakout came—it was a month, within a month after
we landed there and at that point we were moving forward all the time. We knew we
were going forward, I mean, there was no doubt in our minds that we were advancing.
32:22
Interviewer: Now one of the things that happened to help start the breakout was
the American did some very heavy bombing raids around St-Lo. Do you remember
seeing any aircraft going over or hearing any of that or was it in a different sector
than you?
The aircraft—we had bombers going over, in fact, the sky was black with them at times,
but I was actually not that close to St-Lo, I mean to where they were bombing, we were
quite a ways away from them, but I mean, you could see them, you could hear them. At
that particular time it was all B-17’s and we’d already, I mean our aircraft recognition
17
�courses and all, we knew what we were looking at, so—in fact I don’t recall, except on
one or two occasions, seeing a German plane at all. It was—once or twice we saw ME109’s, but that was it, there wasn’t any others. 33:18
Interviewer: Did you see American tactical aircraft regularly? Fighter-bombers
and two engine bombers and things like that, and did they support you?
Yeah, they were in the air quite a lot. Again, it’s not a steady thing and they would go
over roofs and then you wouldn’t see anything for the rest of the day. We went through
one field where they had landed gliders and the Germans had stuck up posts in the fields
and I wondered how anybody came out of that alive because those gliders were all broke
up into little pieces. 33:51
Interviewer: That tended to be what happened to them when they landed anyway,
but yeah, there definitely were problems like that. Now, what sense did you have
that the Germans at that point, how effectively they were fighting or what condition
they were in at that time, what was your impression of them?
They were effective, believe me they were. The big problem with—I should say that
their light machine gun was probably the worst weapon for us that we could run into, but
one thing, the Germans, once they determined they had superior forces against them, they
would back off. They wouldn’t stand and fight like we would. Don’t ask me why, they
wouldn’t stand and fight, they would move back. 34:46
Interviewer: They didn’t have enough men.
You say that, but if you go into attack they like to attack two to one, but we’ve attacked
when we’ve had—figured we had even—same amount of people we had on the other side
over here. I mean you can’t—they don’t stop.
18
�Interviewer: You have several weeks of this fairly regular fighting with fairly
steady progress and then the breakout comes and you start moving faster. Once
you got out of the hedgerows where did you go?
Well, at that particular point, we’d load on trucks and the Germans at that time were
setting up little spots here and there that they would fight from. They didn’t have an
organized fight, but you might go a mile or two up the road and run into a company of
them that was fighting here, and then you would unload and try to clear that and then get
back on your trucks and go again and in the meantime these roads were full of littered
vehicles. 35:53 I mean they were burning, houses were burning, anything that has been
fired on. I don’t know if they were firing on it or it was just the result of the artillery
firing onto them that caused it or not because it was normal for artillery to knock out
anything that was high. It could be a barn; they would knock it down because they could
put spotters into it. I mean, we moved, some days we would move like ten or fifteen
miles and the next day you would get twenty-five in. I mean, it was nothing—from that
distance we went all the way to the Rhine before we finally hit, got stopped, and I’m
trying to think of what that German fort was. I was in Patton’s army and he had sent
scouts into this town—they run him out of gas or he ran out of gas, I never quite figured
that out, but he had pulled his gas and sent three vehicles into the town and they had
pulled out. 37:01 By the time we got gas and got ready to move again, they were back.
But these forts, the Germans had forts and I think they were French forts originally-Interviewer: Well the French had—one place the Germans defended in that area
was the French town of Metz, it had a bunch of forts around it and that was a place
where Patton’s army kind of got bogged down. Some by-passed it and went down
19
�toward the German frontier, but there was a long fight there. Now, were you
involved in the fighting around Metz? 37:37
Yes, in fact, that’s where I got wounded. At Metz we had—Patton took the tanks and
went around it. He, as you say, bypassed the town, but there was the Tenth Regiment ,
the Eleventh Regiment and the Second Regiment of the 5th division that stayed there that
finally overcame these forts and I mean it was—as I said, I got hit and was shipped back
to England, I think, in the first few days that we had the attack there, but it took them, I
would be guessing if I said anything at this point because I really don’t recall, but it took
a long time and they finally took all of the forts. 38:26
Interviewer: it did take a long time and it took a lot of casualties in the process.
Can you describe, sort of, your experience at Metz kind of up to the point of being
hit? I mean, what were you doing and what was going on?
Well, at the time I got hit we were in attack and I can’t—it was one of those forts, but that
wasn’t our primary concern, we were off to the left of it and somebody else was attacking
it straight on. I was going across an open field and it actually felt like somebody had
taken a baseball bat and just knocked me right off my feet, and you—the realization is
there that you got hit, how bad? So, you get up and I found out I could move, so I got-39:15
Interviewer: Where were you hit?
In the chest—I took the tail end of a machine gun burst. I took one in the chest and two
in the arm on that thing, but I mean I was lucky. Of course, everybody that came out of
that war was lucky, but in any case, it—I found I could get up and of course, you’re
bleeding and I walked back, I don’t know, maybe fifty yards or so and collapsed there
20
�and one of the corpsmen, or medics, came up and stuck bandages on and they sent me to
the rear and then they put me—actually I rode a tank because they couldn’t get an
ambulance or anything, so they stuck me on a tank with a couple other guys that were
going back and when we got to the field hospital I was unloaded there and they operated
on me at that point and the next day, they had taken the airfield, and a bunch of us were
shipped back to England for recovery. 40:21 I was there for, I don’t know, about three
or four weeks and was sent back over again.
Interviewer: What was the hospital time like?
It was fine, I mean you couldn’t get out of it or anything like this. I mean, it wasn’t like
you could go to town or anything like that. The food was good and it was basically
exercise to get you back in shape again. This is—once you got healed up enough that
you could do that of course, but once they rated you fit for duty, you were shipped back.
You might go as a group or you might go as an individual. 41:12
Interviewer: Was it a good break to have at that point after all the stuff you had
been through or did you just want to get back?
Yeah, you really give a sigh of relief, I have to say that when you get in that hospital and
the tension is not there, everything is gone and you know there is nobody shooting at you,
but it’s like everything else that humans go through after two weeks it’s blasé again, you
just are living there that’s all. The food is good and everything is good and the
realization comes back when they tell you you’re going back again. 41:46
Interviewer: So, what was it like to go back? Was it something you were ready to
do at that point, or you didn’t want to go?
21
�I didn’t want to go, period. I don’t think anybody really wanted to go back. I mean, you
knew you had to and it wasn’t a question of what you wanted to do really, it was you
knew you had to go back, so you might as well resign yourself to it and it wasn’t
anything big that I could see it wasn’t anything anyone else wasn’t doing and we were
shipped back. Of course we went back across by boat, we didn’t fly back. They flew us
in, but they didn’t fly us back and we went back across by boat and loaded into trucks
and were taken back to the same outfit I was in. 42:40 In fact, when I got back they had
a new platoon sergeant that had taken over the platoon, but in one of the other platoons
the guy had been shot up before that, so they just sent me over there.
Interviewer: Now, were they still at Metz at that point or had they taken that?
Oh no, we were in fact just in a holding position at that time. After Metz was taken they
just sat there. This was until—it was winter and it was cold, you know, cold weather
until the breakout when they came through the forest there, the Bulge, when they started
the Bulge, and of course we were in Patton’s army, so we loaded on tanks, I was infantry
all the way, but we loaded on the tanks and cut across country and headed for the bulge.
43:27 It was steady going, I mean, I think we drove two nights and a day or something
like that there.
Interviewer: Now, before you headed off on this, had the division been able to take
in a lot of replacements and recover a lot of its strength?
Oh yeah, we were up to full compliment at that time. Once Metz was taken we were, I
would say, the best part of a month, we just held and we didn’t do anything. I don’t
know what—it was a static position at that time and nobody seemed to be doing anything
and I don’t know why. We were right at the Rhine, in fact, we were across the Rhine at a
22
�number of places at that time, but when this thing came we were—they were setting up
for an attack to move forward into Germany at this point and they called it off and sent
the whole Third Army towards the Bulge and cut that off. 44:36
Interviewer: And then what kind of action did you see at that point? Are you
counterattacking the Germans and going through the forest?
Yeah, but not in the respect of open field or anything like this-- it was, where you ran into
them and they ran. At that time they knew it was over too. I mean, the little town had
been taken and I don’t know what unit got in there first, it was part of Patton’s army that
had taken the town that held out and really stopped it.
Interviewer: Bastogne, the 101st Airborne was there and then Patton’s Fourth
Armored got up there and joined them.
When they took over that the German’s knew it was done and when we got there, of
course we were to the right, we were cutting off the Bulge, and when we went through
the wood they didn’t even stop to fight, they ran as fast as they could. 45:38
Interviewer: Did you have any idea what kind of soldiers you were fighting at that
point? In terms of, were they old or young?
Yeah, we got—yeah, you were right, there were older men and a bunch of, I swear some
of those kids were thirteen or fourteen years old that we ran in and I mean, they were like
kids we captured. If they got hurt they were crying and I mean, and the old people, the
older ones, if they could give up they would, put it that way, but if they had to fight they
would do that too, so it was a circumstance kind of a deal. If they had an officer behind
them with a pistol pointed at them, they were going to fight.
23
�Interviewer: You were probably up against what they call a Volksgrenadier
Division, which was recruited from older men, recovering invalids, teenage boys,
and whatever was there, was not what they put at the main points of attack. There
were other places in the counterattack on the Bulge where the fighting was a lot
nastier, but the rest of them were holding the sector you were in. 46:38
We were just cutting them off, cutting that Bulge off. We weren’t—the soldiers that had
gone through were up ahead of us. I mean, we were in back of their main lines and the
people we hit, that our particular unit hit, were not professional soldiers.
Interviewer: So the fighting was easier on you than it was maybe back at
Normandy or at Metz or anything like that?
Yes, I don’t mean you didn’t get shot at, but you weren’t under continual machine gun
fire and stuff like this. They didn’t have the weapons to start with, but they all had rifles
and some of them would fire them, but like I said, the biggest share of them, if they could
give up at that time they would. 47:28
Interviewer: About how long did that continue do you think, days, a week, two
weeks?
I don’t think very long. Seven days at the most. I’m trying to think of whom we met on
the other side. Someone came from the other side and I think it was English, but I
wouldn’t swear to that, but we met somebody, I know, because—then the word went out
of course, ―hey they’re cut off‖. Whoever’s up there is there. 48:01
Interviewer: Once you linked up with people coming down from the north at that
point, did you stay where you were, did you go east?
24
�Yeah, we just held and positions became static again and we just held that particular
point. We watched a lot of German prisoners come marching back because we were just
off a main road and they were marching them back to from the Bulge itself. They were
giving up as fast as they could at that particular point. 48:34
Interviewer: How long did things stay static do you think at that time?
Oh, probably, it must have been three or four weeks anyhow, before we ever moved out
of there and from that point we moved—where did we go? We went-Interviewer: Did you go back south a ways?
We went into Sudetenland
Interviewer: That’s’ in Czechoslovakia. The Saar maybe, that’s in West Germany?
The Saar is that piece of West Germany that--They moved us back down there after the Bulge was cut off and we went in there. The
only reason I remember that is we—we didn’t fight them, but a bunch of German cavalry
came through on horse and, of course, we sent the prisoners back and kept the horses,
which didn’t last too long because the positions were static and the Russians were coming
from the other side and they were giving up as fast as they could to us. 49:37
Interviewer: That probably was in the Sudetenland, but that would have been at
the very end of the war. I want to keep your story kind of reasonably in order. So,
we’ve kind of gotten you through the Bulge, repositioned back in Germany, so then
you’re maybe attacking again in February or so?
We went to, and I don’t remember the names of the towns in Germany. I know in one
town we ran into a point where they had a gal—we were getting sniping fire and I mean
the town was laid out like a horseshoe, I mean a wagon wheel, I’m sorry, and the
25
�spokes—the streets ran out like spokes and as you crossed this one intersection we were
getting sniper fire, and it hit two or three people. We went looking for it and got into a
church up the street, I mean they’re not hard to locate, and there’s a gal about sixteen or
seventeen and, I mean, she wouldn’t come down and they shot her from down below.
She was up in the belfry shooting at the soldiers at that time. 50:39 This kind of stuck
in my mind because we didn’t see too many females that were fighting over there, but
this one seemed to have a pretty good hate for Americans because she refused to come
down from the belfry. One of the guys could speak good German and he told her to
come down two or three times and she shot down at him and that was the end of it right
there.
Interviewer: Do you remember crossing the Rhine?
Yes, we went across on a—we crossed the Rhine and it was into this city that I was just
mentioning and there was a railroad bridge there. Bring the infantry we got across it. I
mean, it had been—it wasn’t suitable—they had wrecked the train tracks and stuff, but
we could still get across if they laid a few planks here and there and we went across that
way and into the town, took the town, and spread out both ways. 51:32 I don’t recall
where we went from there, as far as that particular town is concerned. The only reason I
remember it is because of the sniper fire that we took and she must have got three or four
guys anyhow.
Interviewer: As you’re moving out into Germany at that point, what’s the
campaigning like? Are you meeting a lot of organized opposition or roadblocks
here and there?
26
�The organized opposition the Germans had was pretty well gone at that time. We took a
lot of area; we walked through a lot of farmhouses and stuff like this. I mean, basically it
was just farmland all the way and I don’t recall getting fire except once or twice after that
point until we got all the way to, I don’t recall the town, when the actual war was over,
but the fighting was strictly sporadic after that. 52:36 There was no concerted effort, I
mean, they didn’t have the people and they didn’t have the leadership at that time, I
don’t believe.
Interviewer: Did you see much of the civilian population going through Germany?
A few times, in fact I’m trying to think of the town, and the brewery was left and we
found that. We went into it and there were three old Germans there and one of them had
lived in New York and he could talk good English and we got to talking to him, and one
of the guys asked him, it wasn’t me, and they said, ―What do you think of Hitler now?‖
And the only answer he said was, ―he lost the war for us‖. He still didn’t realize he’d
killed all your young people, he’d wiped out the country, but he lost the war. That was
the only thing that came to mind on him. Just, I don’t know, that kind of thinking amazes
me I guess because there’s got to be a lot more to it than that. 53:36
Interviewer: There were a lot of different responses and then the question of do you
say to the American soldiers when they come through. Now, as you were going
through Germany, did you go into any of the concentration camps or work camps?
We hit one and I can’t remember what it was, but it wasn’t a big one, but again, it was a
question of these people have been downtrodden so far that there wasn’t any response to
them as far as they were glad to see us or weren’t glad to see us or anything like this. I
think they all knew instinctively they were going to live from that point, but some didn’t.
27
�We fed them and we gave them our rations and they had to stop. One of the doctors
came through from our side and said not to give them any more rations because they’re
killing themselves, so don’t feed them any rations. 54:39 They hadn’t had food in so
long, I guess, it didn’t set well with them. I mean they were all just skin and bones.
Today I sit here and hear people say, ―Hey, this never happened‖. You never were there
that’s why it never happened. Again, some of the things are just so surprising to me.
Interviewer: That is why we need to do this kind of thing, just to give people that
many more reminders of what all that was really like. Now, you mentioned early
getting to Sudetenland and the American did get that far to the frontiers of
Czechoslovakia and those areas up in there. Did you get far enough to run into the
Russians?
Yes, and I say that with tongue in cheek. We saw them and we didn’t meet with them or
anything. 55:36 I mean, the newsreels showed a lot of Americans shaking hands and we
didn’t get into that because they stopped before they ever got there. We probably had a
half a mile between us. You could—we were on a hill and we had a good area and they
stopped and they also stopped shooting because they said there were no more Germans.
They came up to us as fast as they could.
Interviewer: Now, in those last days, did the Germans seem to be retreating toward
you? Were you getting refugees coming toward your lines?
German soldiers mainly and there were refugees, but I didn’t really put them together
with the soldiers, because the soldiers, the minute they saw us their guns went on the
ground and their hands went up and in they came. They wanted—they didn’t want to be
taken by the Russians that was for sure. 56:28
28
�Interviewer: You mentioned seeing a Cavalry unit. Can you describe what they
looked like and what the horses were like?
It was, in fact I didn’t think there were any horses left when we—I regret that I should
have stayed with that because we had those horses for about four or five days and one
day here came a batch of MP’s and they took them all back to the rear. The unit itself
was—I mean it was nondescript in the fact that you did not have full uniforms on these
people and what have you. I had no idea where they had been or anything, but they got
off the horses and we took the saddles off, of course and put them out to graze. The guys
knew what they were doing that did it, I didn’t. 57:18
Interviewer: What condition did the horses seem to be in?
They weren’t bad; really they were in good shape. In fact, we were told, and again this is
here say, the officers, they used them back in the areas where the officers and men were
on leave back there that they rode them for recreation.
Interviewer: It’s quite possible, they had the Lipizzaner stallions, the white, in
Vienna and so forth, and those were protected and at some point those had to get
rescued by somebody out of Czechoslovakia. But these, those would be the horses
that got left. Most of the German horses would have been used for pulling wagons
and those kind of things and gotten killed a long time ago, and kind of an odd thing
to have ride up on you at this stage in the war. 57:57
Yeah, it really was and, like I said, there must have been twelve or fifteen of them or
something like that, which was a pretty good number of horses in this one particular
group. Again, like I said, the uniforms they wore were not fully German uniforms. They
29
�were made up of parts and pieces. Stuff they had picked up on the road and things like
this. 58:26
Interviewer: So, Do you remember how you heard about the European war ending
or how that news came down to you?
I think it was disseminated down through rank, from the officers down to our
commander, who notified us. We weren’t called in, I mean, he—at that time you could
group, so he would get the whole company together and notify us as a company. At that
time I was married and he said for all married men to put their names in and they would
be leaving as soon as they could get transportation, which didn’t hurt my feelings. 59:09
Break
Interviewer: You mentioned you were married by then. When did that happen?
I was married before I went overseas. I didn’t wait, I got in the service and when I found
out I was going overseas, I got married, my wife was agreeable, so there was no problem
with that. 59:39
Interviewer: Did you have to go back to Michigan to get married and turn around
and go right back out again?
Well, I was in Custer at that time, I was still out there and when I knew what was going
on, I went back home and got married. I couldn’t see too much point in waiting.
Interviewer: What did she do while you were off in the service?
Worked in war plants and kept house. She had a baby and it worked out well, but she—I
remember she worked, she was living in Saginaw at that time, and she worked at the
machine gun plant where they made light machine guns. :20 She worked over there for
a long time.
30
�Interviewer: Did she go to New Jersey?
Oh yeah, she did, I was at Fort Dix and she came out, rode the bus out there, and it was
odd because I expected her on one bus and she didn’t get off. I’m walking around the
bus station there, in Trenton, in New Jersey, and here she stood against the wall waiting
for me, so it worked out well.
Interviewer: All right, so you’re a married soldier, but also, someone who had been
in since 1940 and you were in there longer than most of those guys, and you had a
fair number of days of combat, so you had a variety of ways, and you had been
wounded, so you had a lot of ways of picking up points, so you could get out
relatively early. When did they ship you out of Germany? 1:22
Well, I was—I got discharged in June, so I think it was probably May because when they
shipped me there I went right back to England and we embarked and I came back to the
states. Actually I was discharged at Fort Sheridan in Chicago and from there I took the
train into Detroit and home at that point. That was quite a ride on that train too. 2:12
Interviewer: Full of soldiers going home?
Oh, there was so much alcohol flowing and you couldn’t realize that many people could
do that many different things.
Interviewer: Go back a little bit to that time you spent in Iceland. What did you do
there aside from standing guard or whatever your official job was?
Well, your recreation time was your own, but Iceland, actually, it’s a beautiful country in
the respect that it’s a bird sanctuary to begin with and we did little items there that, I
didn’t, but I was walking along with my guide, he was a sergeant, and he was a Finlander
from up in northern Michigan, and just out of the blue he just reached down and pulled
31
�his forty-five out and shot out across the water and knocked off a duck. The next
morning there’s a big note on the bulletin board, You Will Not Shoot The Water Foul In
this Country Because They Are Protected. The country itself, between the summertime
especially, that sun goes down probably twelve or one o’clock in the morning , but it just
sinks below the glaciers back there, I mean volcanoes, the extinct ones, and it comes back
up in about twenty minutes or so. 3:36 In the meantime, the colors are—of the sky—are
so radiant that you just couldn’t believe there could be that many colors going on at the
same time. We had more or less freedom of what we wanted, of course, Iceland is
nothing but Fjords, which are big bays, and it worked out perfectly for the navy. They
had a big—every one of them had ships into them. They had an oil tank, what we called
a tank farm, up there that was big oil tanks that they refuel their ships and stuff off of.
4:22 They had a submarine at one of the other ones that was closer to Reykjavik that
had, the naval air force had, a submarine—I’m trying to think, they’re standard, I don’t
know what they called it, but they use to fly submarine patrols. We went over—one of
my sergeants had a chief petty officer that was flying submarine patrol and we went over
there to see him one day and he had a—what was his name, Wilhelm Ludwig Gast , and
it was strange, he was some German descent, of course, but he kept the whole name and
kept the German inflection on it and he’s flying submarine patrol. He said, ―Anyone of
you guys taken gunnery practice? We said, ―no‖, and he said, ―Well, if you had, you
could have come along with me‖. 5:24 He said, ―I have to have trained gunners in
there‖, so they hadn’t run into anything to speak if. But they had those big Mariner
seaplanes and that was—the whole thing was set up all the way through. It was—I had
never dealt with the navy before that or since that, I mean, as far as personal. I was quite
32
�impressed with the way it was set up and the way it was run, but they use to fly back to
the states periodically and they brought fresh hamburger up there and I hadn’t had a
hamburger in two years or something like that. It was one of those things that just hit
you, all of a sudden you have access to everything and we hadn’t even had access to the
states. 6:16
Interviewer: Now did the army give any kinds of creative training or anything like
that? Take advantage of the fact that you’re up in Iceland and teach you to ski or
skate or any of those things?
Like I said, at one time they decided we were going to have, make some ski patrols and
they took a group of us, I had my platoon, but I mean, we just went up on the glaciers and
it didn’t work. You can’t train a group of men to ski in the period of time that they had
left there. There were some interesting things that I still remember, you know, you
always put your ski in the exact same path as the man in front of you, and if you had to
stop and relieve yourself—everybody used the same spot and this is just normally, can’t
count how many they got in the group , but you knew what the purpose of it was and it
was an interesting thing, but it didn’t work. As I said, maybe if they had started two
years before that. 7:24
Interviewer: Did they have you cross country skiing on the glaciers or what?
Yeah, we were just on the glaciers itself and this one spot was probably a two mile run or
something like that down the hill and some of these guys would try to take that run
kneeling down and they get going so fast, of course, the skis would go right out from
under them and they would slide on their back for a quarter of a mile or so before they
finally got stopped, but nobody got hurt that I recall anyhow. It was an interesting thing
33
�and we periodically even—they would give us free time and we’d take the platoon out
and cover ten miles or whatever they wanted you to cover. 8:14 I can remember taking
my platoon out and climbing those extinct volcanoes. You could get around them and I
think back on it now and if I’d lost a man up there I don’t know if I’d have been here
today or not. It was a foolish thing to do, but we were all young and could handle it then.
It was no problem, I mean; you went through it, and actually the fish in the middle of the
volcano-=pretty near all of them had a lake in them and they were basically trout and
fresh water fish. I don’t know where they came from because it was all salt all the way
around there, but in any case, we got to the point we were using concussion grenades and
we would drop a couple of them in the water, gather up the fish, take them back to the
mess hall and have a good supper out of them. 9:03
Interviewer: Not spam and not mutton.
Not spam and not mutton is right.
Interviewer: Are there other memories or things that stick out in your mind about
your time in the service that you haven’t mentioned yet or other things you left out?
Well, I mean, actually all the items I’ve forgotten them. Some of them I wanted to, I
mean it wasn’t a question; I just tried to erase them from my mind as much as possible.
Did I tell you they dumped the jeep in the water?
Interviewer: It was jeeps, the Volkswagen you stole or took from the Germans.
Well, this was after the war, when I got home here the Volkswagen put out the
Volkswagen—what they had in Germany, they made a special model for the German
army that—over here they called it the Thing and I don’t know—10:13
Interviewer: They called it a Kubelwagen.
34
�That’s the job. Anyhow, we took one of them one place, but it was an interesting little
outfit, they had about a three pint gasoline container and they had a three cylinder aircooled engine to them. They had about a pint container that you poured gasoline into
them and you started the vehicle on that, it was an air-cooled engine, and the engine got
hot and they would run them on kerosene. They smoked a lot, didn’t have any power, but
they got you there and got you back. I mean, at that time in the war, fuel was really tight
in Germany, so we had that for I don’t know how long, and again, somebody came along
and took it back. 10:57
Interviewer: Somebody could pull rank on you.
But you—there wasn’t much German equipment that you could have. Of course the big
thing that I saw in Germany was the non-fraternization policy they had going at that time
and I mean if you were caught talking to a group of Germans, you better be giving them
orders. If not, there wouldn’t be any pleasantries what so ever. 11:29
Interviewer: Did that end when the war ended or did that keep going in some way?
I think it ended. I don’t know that for sure, but I’ve seen and talked to some people who
stayed over there and they said that it was a complete different set-up after the war was
over. Of course again, once the Russians had put their course or set-up into effect, and
they were flying them in, we had to, as allies, had to become chummy with the Germans
because that’s the only way they were going to live. Couldn’t believe, I still couldn’t
believe we flew that many supplies into Berlin to keep those people alive. 12:08
Interviewer: To look back on the whole thing now, how do you think your time in
the service would up affecting you as a person or otherwise?
35
�I think it did just what my mother was expecting it to. It made me realize that I was a
man, that I had other things that I had to do because I have to freely admit, I was, when I
went in the service, I was someone living for my own purpose and nothing else and I—
when I came back I wasn’t the only person in the world anymore. 12:50 I did affect me
in that I came home and of course, after I got out of the service jobs weren’t that hard to
find and I had a little time as a plumber before I went in the service and I got talking to
him and he said, ―When you want to go back into plumbing, we can get you started as an
apprentice‖, and I said, ―Ok‖, so I went from there, got my license, my three years, and
then I went to work for the state as an inspector, got my masters license and went on from
there. 13:27 It was just the things that came together right. I came home, like I said, and
I realized I had a family, I had somebody to support, It wasn’t just me, so I had to keep
going whether I wanted to or not. I didn’t realize that before I went in the service. I had
come up and whatever was mine was mine and that was it and once you can get over this
you realize that you have other aims in life. 13:58
Interviewer: All right then, anything else you want to put on the record here before
we close this out?
No, I think we are pretty well set. I think I will undoubtedly think of something after
you’re gone, but that goes without saying I guess. It goes without saying, I think this is a
nice deal in the respect that I know that I’m not going to be here for too much longer and
I can leave a record like this. In fact, I have thought of going down and having
something put on a disc, but what do you have put on a disc? What can you say to your
family except, ―I love you, I’m gone, and where we going from here‖.
Interviewer: You tell a pretty good story. 15:00
36
�This was well after I got out and we went to the 5th Division--finally after thirty, forty
years, why we realized they had an association of that division and I went to that. My
brother was down there and this guy coming up the street and he had a T-shirt on that
said 5th division on it, and he said, ―‖My brother was in that outfit during the war‖, and he
said, ―He was?‖ And he said he peeled the T-shirt right off and he said, ―Here, give him
this‖. Of course, my brother said he washed it before he brought it home, but I mean, it
was unusual that this happened, but because this happened was probably the reason I got
in touch with them. I went to Waco and then I went to Indiana for the next one and I
haven’t gone—I’ve gotten a little bit too old to make those kinds of parties anymore, but
I may go again if they have one in Michigan in the next year or two and I’m still here.
16:17
Interviewer: Well, thank you for talking to us today.
Thank you for coming out. I appreciate the fact to get some of this stuff off.
37
�38
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cooley, Robert I (Interview outline and video), 2008
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Cooley, Robert I
Description
An account of the resource
Robert Cooley joined the US Army in 1940 and served through World War II. He was a platoon sergeant in the 5th Infantry Division, and was stationed in Iceland, England and Northern Ireland before landing in France after D-Day. He saw action at St. Lo, Metz, and in the counterattack after the Battle of the Bulge before advancing into Germany and Czechoslovakia. His account includes descriptions of life on garrison duty in Iceland, combat in the Norman hedgerows, taking German prisoners and coming upon a small concentration camp shortly after it was liberated.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
United States. Army
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Video recordings
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
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2008-03-11
Identifier
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CooleyR
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c74976c1e686e8ccd8d22d94844f0557.mp4
279892e52430432a8990f497f0ccedd9
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/60d0f9e46dc824b65cbf19bb14575156.pdf
08b39f552f704f69890ec809ec398711
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Vietnam War
Dale Cooper
(1:01:32)
Background Information (00:14)
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
Born in 1948 in Southern Illinois in a farm house. (00:15)
Dale was the fourth out of five children. (00:30)
The farm grew corn and beans and had some livestock. (00:55)
He graduated high school in 1966. (1:15)
Dale did have a deferment while in college. But because of this he had 2 children and a wife
after he was out of college when he was sent to Vietnam. (1:30)
He received his draft notice in February of 1969. He did his physical of September of 1968
before being drafted. (2:09)
Dale knew very little about Vietnam at the time when he was drafted. (3:07)
Basic Training (3:30)
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
He when to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, for basic training. The men were taught not to stand
out as it often subjected the men to harassment by the drill sergeants. (3:31)
The men seemed to be mostly from the Midwest area. (4:30)
At his qualifying exam, Dale was told he was good to do any job. He requested to be a medic but
could not because Fort Sam Houston where they trained was full. (5:00)
The discipline was hard but fair. (6:00)
There were many men who were not in physical shape or respected discipline. (6:23)
Men often avoided association with the men who didn’t like discipline as it put the men at risk.
(7:53)
Basic lasted 8 weeks. He was selected to go qualify for the M16. (8:31)
AIT (Advanced Infantry Training) (9:28)
•
•
•
•
•
•
He attended AIT at Fort Ord, California (9:30)
The base appeared much more primitive and had buildings from World War II (9:35)
Men were taught first aid, hand to hand combat, and on more weapons such as the M16.
(10:12)
There were no great efforts taken to prepare the men for Vietnam such as mock villages or
education on booby traps. (11:27)
AIT lasted approx. 6 weeks. (12:20)
After a 30 day leave, Dale was to be sent to Vietnam. He did not think he would see his family
again after his leave. (12:35)
Journey to Vietnam and Early Service (13:00)
•
He flew from Oakland, California, to Vietnam. (13:05)
�•
•
•
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•
The men were flown aboard a commercial aircraft. The aircraft landed in Hawaii then the
Philippines and then Vietnam. (13:40)
When he arrived in country he saw fire and black smoke. [actually from human waste being
burned with diesel fuel] This scared Dale. (14:19)
He stayed at another replacement center in Long Binh. Dale was assigned to the 101st Airborne
Division (14:57)
Dale was given training in country on booby traps, helicopters, etc. that could be more
applicable to Vietnam combat. (16:30)
He was scared early on that he could be killed any second while in country. (17:35)
Dale was landed in Camp Evans and was assigned to Charlie Company, 2nd of the 506th Infantry.
1st Platoon. (18:00)
Dale was asked if he smoked, as in marijuana. He was told never to take drugs while in the field
as he would probably die. (19:42)
The men were standoffish around Dale as a new guy could be dangerous in the field. (20:26)
When he first arrived, Dale and his unit were south of Camp Evans up in the hills. (21:44)
Service south of Camp Evans (22:40)
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
His company had set up an ambush site. When then the VC triggered their ambush, Dale's unit
triggered theirs. (22:45)
Dale’s reactions to the fire fight were automatic due to training. (23:58)
After the fire fight the men in Dale’s unit respected him more as they knew he could hold his
own in combat. (24:27)
His company commander was from West Point and very dedicated to his duties. (24:53)
In the later part of 1969, dale spent most of his time in the mountains. He was never out in the
field for less than 30 days. The longest the men were out was 63 days. (26:21)
Dale was comfortable in the jungle. He preferred to be in the field. Occasionally the men did
stay at fire bases. (27:00)
Dale walked point and checked for booby traps for approx. 1 month when he arrived in country.
(28:06)
He also found a small bomb while walking point. Dale was assigned to destroy the booby trap.
(29:20)
Booby traps were more prevalent when in the mountains and engaging the North Vietnamese
than when engaging the VCs. (30:30)
Service as a Radio Operator (31:09)
•
•
•
•
Dale was given the radio after the radioman left on R&R. When the radioman retuned he didn’t
want his job back. (31:10)
A new company commander was assigned near this time. One of the first things the new captain
did was walk the men out to a rifle range in January of 1970 and test their accuracy on the rifle
range. (31:50)
He could tell that the company commander [Captain Isabelino Vazquez] was tough and
demanding. However he was seen to care highly about the soldiers. (33:50)
When a perimeter was set up at night, typically there was a listening post sent out for an
advanced warning of activity. Sometimes instead of a 5 men group waiting to intercept a group
of North Vietnamese there would be 90 men on alert. (34:59)
�•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
In March of 1970 the company went on more intense search and destroy missions because the
men were outnumbered in their particular area. (37:26)
Some platoons found bunkers, however Dale’s did not. (38:59)
After coming back from R&R the platoon took Ripcord. [site of a planned firebase--two other
companies from the battalion and failed to secure it] As the men went up the hill there was little
to no resistance. (39:48)
Marching orders for the next day were often sent to Dale scrambled. He was required to
unscramble it. (42:12)
On Dale’s R&R he went to Hawaii and had a chance to see his wife. (42:50)
Dale did not believe he would come back, even in mid 1970. (43:50)
In mid 1970 Dale was made battalion radio man. However he still served out in the field. (44:37)
Dale was moved to the tactical operations center [TOC] on Ripcord in late June of 1970. (45:34)
Dale did not like being with the strangers in the strange environment of the fire base. He did not
know how the people around him would react in a combat situation. (46:27)
Ripcord had a landing zone, and bunkers constructed with sand bags. (47:07)
He watched people on the base expose themselves in a dangerous situation to protect the fire
base. (49:20)
Dale’s former platoon was attacked on July 2nd 1970 on hill 902. The company was “wiped out.”
(51:26)
Service in the U.S. (53:40)
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
Dale left Ripcord on July 10th 1970. (53:42)
He was then sent to Camp Evans. He left the camp on July 18th 1970. (55:01)
The aircraft landed in Seattle, Washington. (55:30)
Next, Dale was sent to Fort Carson, Colorado, where they, “ironically taught them how to fight a
war.” (56:18)
Because the unit at Fort Carson was mechanized, Dale was then made a tank commander.
(56:31)
Dale stayed at Fort Carson for 6 months. His family was able to join him while he was stated
there. (56:58)
Dale was discharged in early 1971. (57:45)
Life after Service (57:58)
•
•
•
•
After his service, Dale worked at an oil refinery. (57:58)
Dale says that he will always be grateful for his experience. Overall, his service affected him
positively. (58:58)
He was hard on his children after his service to appreciate what they had. (1:00:00)
Dale was occasionally harassed by civilians because of his service. Often this was hard to
swallow. (1:00:35)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cooper, Dale (Interview outline and video), 2012
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Cooper, Dale
Description
An account of the resource
Dale Cooper, born in 1948 in Southern Illinois, served in the U.S. Army from late 1968 through early 1971. After completing basic at Fort Leonard Wood and AIT at Fort Ord, Dale was sent to Vietnam. Here he was assigned to C Company, 2nd Battalion of the 506th Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division. He went on patrols both in the lowlands near Camp Evans, and in the hills and jungles of the interior. He eventually became a radio operator, working his way up from platoon to company level, and then to the battalion. During the Ripcord campaign in 1970, he was serving in the battalion headquarters until he rotated home on July. He spent the last part of his enlistment as a tank commander at Fort Carson, Colorado.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Army
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
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2012-10-04
Identifier
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CooperD1456V
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b6f08566e22165eaa13f1ba7e8466ff7.mp4
0120153d1ac345eb99fdfb7c46cc1b9d
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/db4f219d8695ce11262dd763dada4928.pdf
df21b9da170878b7fb3ef0f594a8dddb
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veteran’s History Project
Late Cold War Era/ Invasion of Grenada
Randal Cope
Interview Length: (01:04:17:00)
Early Life (00:00:05:00)
Randy was born November 9th, 1961. (00:00:05:00)
Randy spent his entire childhood in Wyoming, Michigan. (00:00:10:00)
o He grew up in a family poorer than most. (00:00:27:00)
o His parents were always on a very fixed budget. (00:00:35:00)
o The family never had extra money for any kind of luxury item. (00:00:41:00)
Randy was drawn to the idea of earning money towards college and decided to join a
military service of some kind. (00:01:25:00)
o At first, he considered being a fireman so he went to the army to seek a position
of this sort, but there weren’t any openings. (00:01:40:00)
o He then checked with the Air Force, who directed him to Detroit for a physical
and a possible job opportunity. Unfortunately, there were no openings of this type
open, but he was offered a job in security. (00:02:18:00)
Randy soon realized that this field was broken up into two sections: law enforcement and
protection services. He had accepted a job on the protection side unknowingly.
(00:03:00:00)
Air Force Training (00:03:30:00)
Entered basic training in September of 1979. (00:03:31:00)
o Randy describes this experience as “where they dehumanize you and turn you into
a military person”. (00:04:40:00)
o He did not find it as mentally or physically straining as many people do. He
accredits this ease to the teachings that he received as a child. (00:05:45:00)
o “I became more respectful”. (00:06:10:00)
Because he had grown up in a structured environment, Randy felt that he had an
advantage over others during basic training. (00:06:50:00)
o People from urban communities, including Chicago and Los Angeles, seemed to
struggle with the strict nature of basic training the most. (00:07:30:00)
Basic training lasted 6 weeks. (00:07:42:00)
o Although weekends weren’t quite as rigorous, trainees were still required to arise
at 5:00 A.M. (00:07:46:00)
Air Force instructors were “very verbal and mind-punishing” (00:08:10:00)
o These people were not allowed to be physical, but were free to “get in your face”
and scream obscenities. (00:08:20:00)
After basic training, Randy was sent to technical school. (00:08:39:00)
o Randy’s technical school was focused on security and policing and located only a
block away from his basic training camp. (00:08:45:00)
o This training lasted a standard 6 weeks for all job titles, but varied in length
according to field after that period of time. (00:09:05:00)
�
One day, Randy and his fellow trainees were called out of their barracks and divided into
8-hour shifts and instructed to guard Wilford Hall Medical Center in San Antonio, Texas.
(00:10:05:00)
o At the time, this was one of the largest medical treatment centers in the Air Force.
(00:10:20:00)
o Randy was called out of the barracks along with the other men to provide security
to the Shah of Iran, who was at the hospital receiving cancer treatment.
(00:11:03:00)
o The Shah of Iran was under high security because he was in exile from Iran.
(00:11:25:00)
o Randy and his roommate were placed on night duty. (00:11:50:00)
o The men wore their “greens” on this assignment. (00:12:17:00)
During his time in technical training, Randy the “possibility of going to war was looming
in the back of my head” after the Iranian Hostage Crisis of 1979. (00:13:50:00)
o With the turn of the decade, Randy felt that the Reagan administration would
resort to violent intervention if the prisoners weren’t released. (00:14:34:00)
o This became the basis for training of military personnel (00:14:50:00)
In the post-Vietnam War era, Randy the mentality of the Air Force was “total selfsufficiency”. (00:15:02:00)
o Training became very broad in light of this desire, providing instruction from
“small weapons all the way up to large weapons, armored vehicles, and air
commanders”. (00:15:35:00)
Randy volunteered to be an air commander because it was “the macho thing to do”.
(00:16:20:00)
o This field included a small amount of competition, but once accepted, one was
“side-by-side” with the other men, not “in line” behind them. (00:16:40:00)
o By doing this, Randy had a good chance of staying in Michigan because there
were three active bases in state at the time. This was a benefit because he did not
have interest in going overseas. (00:17:37:00)
Deployment (00:18:30:00)
After technical training, he was sent to Germany. (00:18:33:00)
o Randy had just gotten married prior to his departure and was sent on a 3-year tour
according to criteria for married air force personnel. (00:18:50:00)
o His wife was able to join him overseas a few months later. (00:19:16:00)
Randy was stationed at an airbase on the French border. (00:19:25:00)
o This base was much smaller than some of the others to the East. (00:21:00:00)
o Because of the small size, men received more “individual training”. (00:21:06:00)
o However, because they were a C-Party base, they were deployed more often than
other bases. (00:21:19:00)
On one occasion, Randy and others on the base were deployed as a fire team over a 1week period. (00:21:30:00)
o On other occasions, men were individually deployed where men received
assignments in pairs. (00:21:40:00)
Randy was once sent to Saudi Arabia. (00:21:54:00)
o During the 90 days that he was deployed, he stayed at an Air Force base where he
did security work. (00:22:06:00)
�
o He was unable to explore the land. Then men were strictly confined to the base.
(00:22:20:00)
In Germany however, the men were allowed “full-reined freedom”. (00:22:40:00)
o Men were not allowed to wander, and had to stay within the realms of “marked
trails”. (00:22:55:00)
o Fishing and hunting were permitted, but restricted to group activities and only by
those that obtained legal licenses to do so. (00:23:35:00)
Randy was in Germany for three full years from 1980 to 1983. (00:23:57:00)
o He arrived there at age 18, and was resentful to leave Michigan. (00:24:13:00)
o He was deployed with a group of men from Texas, who Randy became close with
and partook in leisure activities with them on a regular basis. (00:24:30:00)
o He lived off base in a house while in Germany because he was not eligible for onbase housing because he was only an Airman First Class. (00:25:15:00)
Randy was stationed in Zweibrücken, Germany, a city located on the Schwarzbach River.
(00:25:40:00)
o He was located near a small army unit, situated on the opposite side of a nearby
hill. (00:26:00:00)
o The men had to drive to the other side of the hill, onto the army side, to retrieve
groceries. (00:26:02:00)
The Germans were generally civil towards the Air Force men “because there were not
many Americans there and none of the hostility that usually comes with that”.
(00:26:26:00)
o However, because the men were generally young of age, they tended to “give
Americans a bad name” with their reactionary behavior to a foreign place.
(00:27:03:00)
o Air Force men would sometimes get into trouble with German law, but the
“German courts were usually understanding” and no severe punishment was ever
given. In fact, in most of these cases, the Americans were turned over to United
States law. (00:27:20:00)
o In large German communities, Americans were commonly resented, but not in the
smaller ones, like Zweibrücken. (00:27:53:00)
The Air Force units sometimes provided aid in situations, such as fires and security
matters, in the German community which they lived. (00:28:27:00)
o Randy, himself, elected to donate his AB Negative blood to a badly wounded
German firefighter. This blood type is quite rare. However, the transfusion never
occurred because the soldier was in an impossible state by the time Randy arrived
at the hospital. (00:29:10:00)
After Randy was released from Germany, we was stationed at Whiteman Air Force Base
is Missouri for a short time and then was transferred to Grenada, an island in the
Caribbean, where he stayed for roughly three weeks. (00:29:57:00)
o Prior to arriving, Randy was uninformed of where he was going and was only
given a recall notice. He was still unaware when he boarded the plane.
(00:30:25:00)
o There were fifty men given a mandatory recall notice, the equivalent of one flight.
(00:30:48:00)
�o When given a “mandatory recall notice”, men are supposed to be prepared to
leave immediately for the aircraft hangar. The men receive training for this kind
of situation. (00:31:04:00)
o The men had to wait twelve hours on a plane before take-off to allow time for
gear loading (00:34:00:00)
o The plane finally took off after this length of prep time and landed in Charleston,
South Carolina, where the men boarded another plane. At this point they were still
unaware of their destination. (00:34:50:00)
o The connecting flight took them to Puerto Rico, where they boarded yet another
plane. This would be the flight that finally took them to Grenada. (00:35:06:00)
Randy and the other parachuted into Grenada at 4 A.M. and landed near
the beach, where it was physically safe to do so. (00:36:04:00)
o In order to be certified to jump out of an airplane, one had to be “in the advanced
section of Air Force training”. (00:36:50:00)
This task required “physical agility” because it called for 90 pounds of
equipment aside from the jump itself. (00:37:02:00)
o On the plane ride from Puerto Rico, Randy and the others were told that there
were some medical students being denied permission to leave Grenada to go back
to the United States. (00:38:15:00)
Additionally, Grenada had been under Cuban and Russian influence,
posing a threat of governmental overthrow. (00:38:36:00)
o When they arrived in Grenada, Randy and the others immediately began securing
the airfield because they were told that there might be Grenadian, Cuban and/or
Russian guards there. (00:39:00:00)
The men “feared for the worst”. (00:39:41:00)
They arrived at the terminal, and still there was no sign of another
occupation, so they started their “sweep” of this area. (00:39:48:00)
o Randy and the others discovered a large room with 20-25 cots near the terminal
that the opposing side had used as barracks located behind the terminal.
(00:40:00:00)
Randy and his “fire team” entered the room and realized that the opposing
men were asleep in their cots. (00:40:15:00)
Randy and the team then took the men in the room captive after waking
them up. (00:40:55:00)
The room consisted of mostly native Grenadians with the exception one
Russian man. (00:35:06:00)
After this capture, the American Air Force men were able to secure the
airfield and without any bloodshed. (00:42:03:00)
o After securing the airfield, more American security planes were able to land,
marking the official start of the American invasion of Grenada in 1983, otherwise
known as “Operation Urgent Fury”. (00:42:10:00)
This invasion was embodied by multiple Armed Force denominations
including the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines. (00:42:25:00)
The Air Force men never left the air field because their specific duty is to
provide security to the airbase. (00:43:00:00)
o The Air Force stayed in Grenada for 3 weeks. (00:43:04:00)
�o According to some of Randy’s friends who were in the Army during Grenada
invasion, some were hurt upon parachuting onto the island. He notes that these
men also had a lack of detailed knowledge about the mission, like the Air Force
men did. (00:44:10:00)
Some Army and Marine men reported being attacked by both Cubans and
civilians because they landed in village areas. (00:44:29:00)
Many of the injuries received during the invasion were due to “streamers”,
or parachutes that never fully inflated. One such friend of Randy broke his
back as a result of this malfunction. (00:45:04:00)
o Randy notes that the lack of maps available to the soldiers amplified the
complexity of the invasion because nobody was familiar with the land.
(00:46:27:00)
o In 1984, after the invasion of Grenada, contemporary presidential candidate
Ronald Reagan arrived at Whiteman Air Force Base, where he was provided
security by Air Force personnel, including Randy, as he boarded a flight to an outof-state fundraiser. (00:47:50:00)
This kind of protection was necessary due to increased frequency of
terrorist attacks in Europe during the early 1980’s. This was particularly
frightening to Randy because of the heightened number of attacks to
American military installations in Europe. (00:49:15:00)
o Randy initially signed up for 6 years of service in the Air Force, although he did
consider reenlisting for a time. (00:50:55:00)
o As of 1985, he had accumulated 90 days of leave so he took a summer vacation to
Michigan. (00:51:11:00)
Return to Civilian Life (00:51:20:00)
o Following his Air Force years, Randy decided to look into police work.
(00:51:25:00)
He got an interview with Michigan State Police and was given a Police
Academy starting date soon after. (00:51:28:00)
In the few months between his release from service and his Police
Academy start date, the Michigan State police made the transition to
computerized records. (00:52:24:00)
During the transition to paperless records, Michigan State Police lost his
Police Academy records. When Randy showed up at the academy, he was
not permitted to begin training. (00:53:18:00)
“Being still young, I decided not to do the process over again and be mad
instead”. (00:53:10:00)
Randy fell into something of a depression following this loss of
opportunity, and eventually broke his leg in a drunken driving accident on
a motorcycle ride. Randy had grown up riding bikes. (00:54:10:00)
o Randy started going to night school for electronics after his motorcycle accident.
(00:55:00:00)
This study has taken him into the industrial maintenance field, which is
the field of his contemporary career. (00:55:05:00)
o Randy’s military experience is “a real sense of pride”. (00:55:20:00)
�
Being in the Air Force allowed him the opportunity to travel to many
places around the world. (00:55:40:00)
Randy also takes pride in the camaraderie that developed while training
alongside the other men. (00:57:20:00)
o Randy did not start going to military reunions until the most recently past 20 years
of his life. (00:57:40:00)
o Randy’s wife’s brother is a MIA, and has been missing in Laos since 1970.
(00:58:05:00)
He and his wife are active in MIA programs and recently attended a
Rolling Thunder National Convention in Washington D.C., where they
contact congressmen in order to raise federal concern on these matters.
(00:58:20:00)
Randy feels that “the Vietnam veterans are starting to get the help they
deserve”, thus his activism is not going to waste. (00:58:50:00)
o The only downfall to being in the military, according to Randy, is the
inconvenience of not being able to go to college at an earlier age. (00:59:23:00)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cope, Randal (Interview outline and video), 2011
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Cope, Randal
Description
An account of the resource
Randal Cope was born into a lower-income family located in Wyoming, Michigan. He entered the United States Air Force at a young age in search of an employment opportunity. He was trained as a security officer, which also included police work. After training, he volunteered to be an Air Commander and was deployed to Germany shortly after. He spent three years, from 1980 to 1983, in the small town of Zweibrücken where he attended to mostly small security matters, that of both United States and Germany. In 1983, Cope was sent back to Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri until he received a mandatory recall notice to Grenada, an island in the Caribbean. This deployment marked the official beginning of the Invasion of Grenada, an event attributed to the end of the Cold War. The men of the Air Force, including Randy, were in charge of clearing the airfield for the safe landing of other American vehicles. Cope was involved in the initial search of the airfield for Russian, Cuban, and Grenadian.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Montagna, Douglas (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Air Force
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2011-10-17
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
CopeR1324V
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5d2dc6ada6416a009e9102ee43d1851a.jpg
b7aa48e782b5dceed5d080ff5cb11855
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grand Valley State University Photographs
Subject
The topic of the resource
Aerial photographs
Universities and colleges
Michigan
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Allendale (Mich.)
Building
Facilities
Dormitories
Students
Events
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
Description
An account of the resource
People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
News & Information Services. University Communications
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960s-2000s
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Local Subject
Subject headings specific to a particular image collection
1970s
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01_UAPhotos_000774
Title
A name given to the resource
Copeland and Kistler dormatories
Description
An account of the resource
Aerial view of Copeland and Kistler dormatories looking toward Mackinac Hall.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
Michigan
Allendale (Mich.)
Universities and colleges
Facilities
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
black and white photo
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/832f61a49640e773db1fcf8b731b3d0d.jpg
46ba88a4e01d3b5c95d02793bfe9d1ec
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grand Valley State University Photographs
Subject
The topic of the resource
Aerial photographs
Universities and colleges
Michigan
Grand Rapids (Mich.)
Allendale (Mich.)
Building
Facilities
Dormitories
Students
Events
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
Description
An account of the resource
People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
News & Information Services. University Communications
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960s-2000s
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Local Subject
Subject headings specific to a particular image collection
Copeland House
1970s
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1972
Title
A name given to the resource
Copeland House. Architect's drawing of residence room interior
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-01_UAPhotos_001576
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News & Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a>
Description
An account of the resource
Architect's drawing of Copeland House residence room interior.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
Michigan
Allendale (Mich.)
Universities and colleges
Architectural rendering
Dormitories
Facilities
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright - Non-commercial use permitted.</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
black and white photo