16 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2b4459b9ef96a11945041ee60ac31f71.pdf 41e1575f8a77c81ce88151b7b0ecba3f PDF Text Text �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James Ochs collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ochs, James W. Description An account of the resource Collection includes a photo album of images taken by Ochs, 16 photos taken by the Army Signal Corps of the 26th Infantry Division, and document his tour of duty in France with the 26th Division, friends he acquired in France, and his leisure time activities Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1942/1945 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/482">James W. Ochs World War II collection (RHC-55)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945 United States. Army France Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-55 Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JWO_Mattilde_1945-09-12 Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945 Rédange (France) Correspondence Description An account of the resource Letter from Mathilde to James W. Ochs, September 12, 1945. Letter reads: "Redange Septembre 12. 1945. Dear Jim: I was very glad: when I received your letter, my best thanks. On the same line I received the card from Paris and a letter from Skiss Silly and Trousse(?). So I see that you had been in Paris. I have the photos, they are all very beautiful, principal those from you and of ___. The days you had been here had go by too quick and I hope you come back at Redange before you departed to America, you are all lines wellcome. I send you the best greatings [sic] from Suzanne and me, Mathilde." Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource [Unknown], Mathilde Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1945-09-12 Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived James W. Ochs WWII collection, RHC-55 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Title A name given to the resource Mathilde to James Ochs Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f8ff95136072c7827dc90f18395adab8.pdf 1465d115fc953410bfea395d1724aab2 PDF Text Text �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James Ochs collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ochs, James W. Description An account of the resource Collection includes a photo album of images taken by Ochs, 16 photos taken by the Army Signal Corps of the 26th Infantry Division, and document his tour of duty in France with the 26th Division, friends he acquired in France, and his leisure time activities Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1942/1945 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/482">James W. Ochs World War II collection (RHC-55)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945 United States. Army France Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-55 Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JWO_Mattilde_1945-10-03 Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945 Rédange (France) Correspondence Description An account of the resource Letter from Mathilde to James W. Ochs, October 3, 1945. Letter reads: "Redange le 3. Octobre 1945. Dear Jim: I was very happy to get your lettre and to see that you was in Paris. It is to hoppe that you have this chance again. When you was Sunday to Paris you see Yvonne and the picture. We have I sennding her the pciture, and I have the negative of Paul. I will send you it. I am happy to heard that you family is by good health and your girl again. Suzanne and myself are by good health, hoping the same of you. Suzanne hunts is good now. We hope that you will see us before you go home to America. Now I get your other lettre what the picture from Roland Marguerite Suzanne and you and my. I thank you very very much for its. Marguerite have visite us one day. We have speaking very much of you. I am happ that you get my lettre. I wonder we that my lettre have so long if you get it. I have yours quick. If you write home say plise the very best wishes from Suzanne and my. I am moving(?) Wellbrück(?) but be evening I go home. I have hurt my foot. I send you the best greatings[sic] from Suzanne and my. Your sincerely, Mathilde." Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource [Unknown], Mathilde Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1945-10-03 Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived James W. Ochs WWII collection, RHC-55 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Title A name given to the resource Mathilde to James Ochs Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/82c1e29c4f73851d744d02b6b32ac8c8.pdf 6453757ee2767fb24b71713f95353397 PDF Text Text �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James Ochs collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ochs, James W. Description An account of the resource Collection includes a photo album of images taken by Ochs, 16 photos taken by the Army Signal Corps of the 26th Infantry Division, and document his tour of duty in France with the 26th Division, friends he acquired in France, and his leisure time activities Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1942/1945 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/482">James W. Ochs World War II collection (RHC-55)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945 United States. Army France Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-55 Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JWO_Mattilde_1945-10-09 Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945 Rédange (France) Correspondence Description An account of the resource Letter from Mathilde to James W. Ochs, October 9, 1945. Letter reads: "Redange le 9. 10. 45. Dear Jim: I had been very glad when I received your lettre with the pictures. I was for a few days in Stelbrück(?) and when I came back your parcel with the prelly lamp was arrived. I was very surprised, it is too kind of you, I say you my best thanks Jim. I take from you a good rescue ____[?] Last week I sent for you the fikles of the pictures I had your promised I hope you received these in a few days. I received the card Suzanne and me from Paris so I see that you had been in Paris. If possible you must come to Redange again. We are all times happy when you arrived. I hope that every thing is going well for you and I send you the best greatings [sic] from Suzanne and me. Mathilde." Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource [Unknown], Mathilde Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1945-10-09 Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived James W. Ochs WWII collection, RHC-55 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Title A name given to the resource Mathilde to James Ochs Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4f494fafa5dd31dc4e0ee64ca3dc84e6.pdf f1a1e035e56def7ed01604d485e7e6dc PDF Text Text �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James Ochs collection Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ochs, James W. Description An account of the resource Collection includes a photo album of images taken by Ochs, 16 photos taken by the Army Signal Corps of the 26th Infantry Division, and document his tour of duty in France with the 26th Division, friends he acquired in France, and his leisure time activities Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1942/1945 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/482">James W. Ochs World War II collection (RHC-55)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945 United States. Army France Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-55 Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JWO_Mattilde_1945-11-03 Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945 Rédange (France) Correspondence Description An account of the resource Letter from Mathilde to James W. Ochs, November 3, 1945. Letter reads: "Redange le 3. 11. 1945. Dear Jim: Dat was surprise last night wen Mahell(?) arrived. I was so happy but very sorry dat you did not kame with her. But whe hopp dat you kame quiqly perhaps for Christmas. Mahell(?) bring us good news from you and whe are very glad for you. Thank you so much for the beautiful pictures whe where are quite hourly her where siling in the little room near your beard room it is quite warm where eating apples and pears and spiking from you. Mahell kan tell you de anders news. Many thanks for your letters from the ___? I am glad that you have received my letter with the pictures. I have received a letter from Roland and the picture from him also. He is now in Reius(?) and I hoppe that you see him perhaps. The very best of greatings from Suzanne and me. Love Mathilde." Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource [Unknown], Mathilde Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1945-11-03 Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived James W. Ochs WWII collection, RHC-55 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant World War II Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Title A name given to the resource Mathilde to James Ochs Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2e1c855ee32b4e65601db4743387123c.jpg 7fc700667ce5f6dcf22ffb99f5520205 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. PR6029.P5 M74 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0082 Title A name given to the resource A Monk of Cruta Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource A.T. (Designer) Description An account of the resource Binding of A Monk of Cruta, by A. Phillips Oppenheim, published by J.S. Ogilvie Publishing Company, 1909. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/94383c7e365fc4fb0051cf216d10fc77.m4v 60955664b9987c315e67e3db5ac73009 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7f2666d5f2fb7722a28b41db880daadc.pdf 4f64b9f6f00a9ae866c4804de25b0fcf PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project Diane Aamoth Vietnam War Era 1 hour 18 minutes 47 seconds (00:00:40) Early Life -Born on November 13, 1950 at St. Mary's Hospital in Grand Rapids, Michigan -When she was a year and a half old her family moved to Jenison, Michigan -Mother worked on an assembly line at a General Motors factory -Retired from that -Father worked for the city of Grand Rapids -Retired from that -Attended Grandville High School -Graduated in 1968 (00:01:37) Social Unrest & Vietnam War Pt. 1 -Aware of the Counter-Culture and social turmoil in the 1960s -Remembers the race riots in Grand Rapids in 1967 -Watched the news and saw businesses in Grand Rapids closed -Knew about hippies -Counter-Culture didn't appeal to her -Knew about the Vietnam War -Understood that North Vietnam and South Vietnam were fighting -Understood that South Vietnam didn't want communism (00:03:04) Enlisting in the Army -Attended Grand Rapids Junior College (now Community College) fall of 1968 -Took general education classes -Enjoyed it, but it felt too much like high school -Decided to join the Army -Every day on the way to school she passed the Army induction center -One day the thought just entered her head that she wanted to join the Army -Patriotic and felt a need to serve her country -Liked the idea of having college benefit -Father had served in the Army during World War Two -Didn't support the idea of women serving in the Army -Had an uncle that served in the Marines during World War Two -Parents were surprised that she wanted to enlist, but supported her -Urged her to do research before enlisting -Recruiter was an honest, wise woman -Happy to talk with Diane's parents about the decision to enlist -Answered every question they asked to the best of her ability -In December 1968 she went to Detroit for her Army physical -Stayed over night at the YWCA -Intimidating to be on her own �-Women were separated from the men for the physical -Remembers taking the oath and realizing that she was now in the Army -Felt proud, excited, nervous, and scared (00:09:18) Basic Training -Following her induction into the Army she boarded a plane for Alabama -Sent to Fort McClellan, Alabama for basic training -Close to Birmingham -In the Women's Army Corps -Trained separately from the men -Took a lot of classes on Army regulations, Army history, and Army hierarchy -Received a lot of physical training every day -Did drills and went on marches -Did gas training -Supposed to do a bivouack, but it was cancelled due to weather -Disappointed that she missed out on that -All of the drill instructors were women -Will never forget the first night at Fort McClellan -A drill instructor came in and one recruit said "Hello ma'am" -Should have said "Hello drill instructor" -Drill instructor screamed at her and the rest of the recruits for the mistake -Made Diane think about her decision to sign up for three years -Began to understand why drill instructors yelled at recruits -Befriended one drill instructor and is still friends as of 2015 -Emphasis on discipline and orderliness -Learned how to follow orders without question -Clothes had to be stored in a certain way -Beds had to be made a specific way -Shoes had to be polished -If everything wasn't exactly right you would get a "gig" (demerit) -Too many gigs meant starting basic training over -If you made a mistake you had to do push ups -Remembers failing to have her clothes "pressed off" (smoothed out) -Had to write "I will be pressed off" 100 times -Discipline didn't bother her -Had some downtime during training -Wrote home at night -Allowed to go to the PX (Army general store) -First time going there she was terrified she would fail to salute the right people -At the end of eight weeks of training she was relieved she made it and was more confident -Kept entirely separate from the male recruits -For gas training you went into a room and learned how to put on a gas mask properly -Instructors filled the room with tear gas -Ordered to remove gas mask and say name, rank, and serial number -She quickly said all three then got out of the room �(00:23:44) Advanced Individual Training (AIT) -For her AIT she was assigned to Clerk Typist School -Specifically requested that because she didn't want to be a nurse -Her AIT was at Fort McClellan -During Clerk Typist School she was selected for LOG X at Fort Lee, Virginia -Worked with officers who were learning how to operate during a war -Sent to Fort Lee in the middle of the night -Didn't know where she was going -Thought she was being sent to Vietnam -Exciting to do paperwork for high ranking officers -Trained with women at Fort Lee (00:26:35) Assignment to the Pentagon -At the end of AIT she was allowed to pick three different assignment locations -One of her friends suggested they both pick the Pentagon on a whim -They were both assigned to Fort Myer, Virginia to work in the Pentagon -Excited to work in the Pentagon (00:27:28) Working at the Pentagon Pt. 1 -After completing AIT she was given a leave home to Michigan -Flew from Michigan to Washington D.C. -Met up with her friend the night before they had to report for duty -Met at Washington National Airport -Got a room at the Harrington Hotel -Excited to be in the capitol -Walked up Pennsylvania Avenue in uniform -In retrospect realizes she could have been harassed or attacked -Told to expect harassment from protestors -Checked in at Fort Myer the next day -Nervous about doing clerical work for a major in the Pentagon -Assigned to be a keypunch operator -Took three weeks of Keypunch School -Keypunch: machines that used punch cards to organize information (primitive computer) -Able to reduce the error rate in the Keypunch Office she was assigned to with her friend -Verified the cards properly -Former clerks didn't do their job properly -Became a Data Analyst Specialist instead of a Keypunch Operator -Able to understand the information on the punch cards and cross reference it -Knew if someone was dead, being transferred, or getting reassigned -Worked with information coming in from all over the country and the world (00:35:55) Deployment to Vietnam -Enthusiastic about wanting to help the war effort -Wanted to be deployed to Vietnam -Knew she couldn't fight, but could at least be in the country -Requested a transfer to Vietnam, but got denied -Tried to process her own transfer orders and got caught �-Not punished though -Explained that she was needed in the Pentagon -After seeing combat veterans come back from Vietnam she is glad she didn't go -Saw some Vietnam veterans that dropped to the ground at the sound of explosions -There was a cannon they fired at Fort Myer and the veterans didn't react well to it (00:38:50) Promotions -Started off at the Pentagon as a private -Made Specialist 5th Grade in only 15 months -Attributes that to duty station, work ethic, and having good superiors -Promotions were easy until she was up for promotion to Specialist 5th Grade -Had to go before a board for evaluation -Nervous about the evaluation, but prepared herself for it -Afterwards she realized her face, arms, and neck were red from anxiety -Successfully passed the evaluation and was promoted to Specialist 5th Grade (00:41:52) Relationship with Fellow Soldiers Pt. 1 -Had one female, civilian worker and one other female soldier in the office -Rest of the workers were male soldiers -Male soldiers were uncomfortable with female soldiers at first, but adjusted to it -Never had to deal with inappropriate remarks from the male soldiers -Able to take free trips out of Andrews Air Force Base -Some men said she got the trips for free just because she was a woman -Free trips were offered equally, all you had to do was put forth the effort -Some men made outrageous claims with no backing -For example: Diane and her friend didn't do things like other female soldiers -Only female soldiers they knew were Diane and her friend -Men were respectful and, for the most part, treated her as an equal (00:46:44) Working at the Pentagon Pt. 2 -Worked at the Pentagon for a year -Transferred to the Commonwealth Building in Rosslyn, Virginia -Across from the Potomac River (00:47:04) Relationship with Fellow Soldiers Pt. 2 -Got irritated with some of the other female soldiers at Fort Myer for being too relaxed -It reflected poorly on the other female soldiers -Had contact with soldiers from the other branches of the military without any problems -Got along well with male soldiers because she grew up with sports and male cousins -When she went on dates she judged the men based on how they reacted to her being a soldier -Noticed a negative change in some men when they found out -Not supposed to fraternize with officers -Everyone respected the rule -Disappointing to meet someone only to learn they were an officer (00:50:55) Social Unrest & Vietnam War Pt. 2 �-Remembers being cautioned about avoiding protests in Washington D.C. -She was in D.C. for a concert at the Washington Memorial -Saw a car drive into the Reflecting Pool and people swarm the car -Older friend said they needed to leave -Got to the edge of the crowd and ran into tear gas -Older friend helped her out of the situation -Drove up to the White House on another occasion -Saw a line of police surrounding the White House -Noticed a gradual change in the Pentagon when it came to the Vietnam War -People started to talk about the war more -Asking how long it would take to end and what the purpose in Vietnam was -Arguments about being pro-war and anti-war -Arguments in favor of draft evasion and against it -Knew of Black Panther demonstrations in Washington D.C. (00:57:37) Race Relations -Worked with black soldiers and white soldiers -Befriended a black soldier while working at the Commonwealth Building -Offered her a ride on his motorcycle and she took the offer -Went on a ride together in the city and people stared at them -Knew that people had disdain for interracial relations -Didn't think anything of riding with a black man -Parents weren't racist and she didn't grow up in a racist area -Heard stories about racism during basic training (01:00:44) Downtime -Went to concerts in Washington D.C. with friends -Saw Diana Ross, Dionne Warwick, and Jesus Christ Superstar -Hated that people complained about having nothing to do in Washington D.C. -Felt that there was plenty to do in the capitol (01:02:00) End of Service & Life after the War Pt. 1 -Considered reenlisting because she enjoyed the Army -Discipline and authority wasn't foreign to her -Met a fellow soldier in her office -Started dating and decided to get married after getting discharged -Influenced her decision not to reenlist -Got out in April 1972 and got married in September 1972 -Married for four years and got divorced -Had no children in that marriage -Army encouraged her to reenlist -Immediate promotion to the rank of Staff Sergeant (E-6) -Allowed to choose where she would be assigned -Would have picked Germany -Offered a bonus -Asked for a three month extension and got it -Offered a reenlistment despite the war ending �-Feels that the office wanted to keep her until they found a replacement for her -When they found her replacement she was able to train them (01:05:35) Women's Rights Movement -Noticed the Women's Rights Movement as early as high school -Agreed with some of what they wanted, but not the extremists -Felt that extremism would be too antagonistic -Wanted women to focus on major issues like employment equality, not minor issues -Never had problems with men in the Army, so she wasn't compelled to protest -Noticed more opportunities open up for women in the Army -Shortly after she was discharged the Women's Army Corps was disbanded -Note: 1978 -Female units were integrated with male units (01:07:40) Life after the War Pt. 2 -Finished her Associate's Degree as a legal secretary through Davenport College -Worked for a couple of the bigger legal firms in Grand Rapids -Lived in Nashville, Tennessee when she was married to her first husband -Worked as a legal secretary in Tennessee -Worked for an insurance company -Did some travelling after getting divorced -Lived with an aunt and uncle in Oregon for a year and a half -Helped build a road in Oregon and enjoyed that -Always wanted to live in Alaska and in 1980 got to move there -Got to move up there with her uncle (the Marine veteran) -Lived there for two years -Met her current husband in Alaska -Has three sons and is still married -Worked for Herman Miller Furniture for 15 years -Worked in their competitive intelligence department -Is a member of American Legion Post 535 in Lansing, Michigan -Had been part of the Grandville post -Left it because of the sexism -Joined the all-female American Legion Post in Lansing -Had been established for Women's Army Corps veterans from World War Two -Place to talk about harassment they experienced during the war -Small post with 25 members -Majority are World War Two veterans -She is the commander of that post -Would like to go on an Honor Flight in the future (01:15:11) Reflections on Service -Doesn't feel that the Army changed her, it just made her grow up -More aware of issues with the country -Learned to never make generalizations -Grew up a lot in the first week of basic training -Heard about people's lives and some of the troubles they experienced -Learned a lot in the Army, and grew up a lot, but it didn't change her as a person �-Army was a great experience for her, but doesn't believe that it is for everyone -Feels that the Army is what you make of it � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_AamothD1721V Title A name given to the resource Aamoth, Diane (Interview outline and video), 2015 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-01-15 Description An account of the resource Diane Aamoth was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on November 13, 1950. In late fall 1968 she enlisted in the Army and in December 1968 she reported for duty. She was part of the Women's Army Corps and received basic training at Fort McClellan, Alabama. She received clerk typist training at Fort McClellan and at Fort Lee, Virginia and wound up being assigned to Fort Myer, Virginia and working at the Pentagon. She became a keypunch operator in the Pentagon working for a major, and during her time in the Army worked up to the rank of Specialist 5th Grade (equivalent to the rank of sergeant). During her time in Washington D.C. she saw the social unrest and racism that still plagued the nation in the late 1960s and early 1970s. She worked at the Pentagon for a year and completed her service at the Commonwealth Building in Rosslyn, Virginia. She was discharged in April 1972. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Aamoth, Diane Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/x-m4v application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/21c035099f635cbfd82d6d87d4987523.mp4 6f500cb750dcc2f5474d102e89b01bc1 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/976fcd145c96bd179dbd33846a5f45af.pdf 3c01e829e91175ea432b23d8a47183b2 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project The Cold War Marvin Abbott Interview Length: (00:36:56:00) Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:38:00)  Abbott was born in June 1938 on a farm in Decatur, Michigan; growing up, Abbott attended a country school before going to Decatur for high school (00:00:38:00)  After graduating from high school, Abbott attended Michigan State University from 1956 until 1960; at the time, attending ROTC was mandatory, so Abbott volunteered for the second two years (00:01:02:00) o When Abbott graduated from Michigan State, he received a commission having successfully completed the ROTC program (00:01:22:00) o One aspect everyone in the ROTC program had to complete was a basic training portion and Abbott completed his between his junior and senior years; all ROTC students from Michigan State and other colleges and universities in the area went to Fort Riley, Kansas for the basic training, so in the summer of 1959, Abbott spent six weeks there, satisfying the basic training requirement (00:01:33:00)  During the six weeks, the students went through the traditional basic training, including: KP, guard duty, physical training, work on the rifle range, hand to hand combat, tactics, marching and inspections among other things (00:02:09:00) o Abbott returned to Michigan State in the fall and upon graduation, received a 2nd lieutenant commission in the artillery branch, specifically in the air defense branch (00:02:33:00) o After receiving his commission, a soldier either served two years or six months and a lot, including Abbott, received a six-month enlistment because there were so many of them at the time and not a lot of conflict in the world (00:03:03:00)  Abbott’s initial orders were for a six month active-duty enlistment and he was told not to report until the following May, so he took a job near where his parents lived (00:03:14:00)  Once he finally did report, Abbott drove to El Paso, Texas and Fort Bliss, where the air defense artillery school was located (00:03:31:00) o When Abbott reported in early May, he first went through the officer orientation, which was an eight week class (00:03:45:00) o During the training, the soldiers had to receive security clearance because they dealt primarily with the Nike missile, which could be loaded with nuclear warheads (00:03:56:00)  There were also classes that dealt with the radio codes that the soldiers would be using; a typical Nike site was spread out over twenty or thirty acres and sometimes the soldiers would communicate using telephones and other times by using radios (00:04:20:00) � The soldiers also worked with computers, as primitive as they were at the time, and needed security clearance for that (00:04:40:00) o The Nike missile was the primary missile the soldiers studied and it had two variants, the Ajax and the Zeus; the Ajax was the initial version of the missile but before Abbott arrived at Fort Bliss, the Army developed the Zeus, which was four Nike mortars put together, allowing for a larger warhead, higher altitudes, and a longer range (00:04:53:00) o One of the highlights of the training was one morning, all the soldiers were woken up and driven into New Mexico, where the was a practice firing range for the missiles (00:05:28:00)  Most of the missile units around the country at the time were run by National Guard troops, although there were some Reserve- and ActiveDuty-run sites, and every so often, each unit would have to leave their assigned location, travel to New Mexico, and set up there to go through firing missiles at drone targets (00:05:50:00)  They would start the drone at the south end of the range and flew it towards the missile, which were located at the north end of the range; as soon as they acquired the drone, the crew would fire a missile (00:06:21:00)  The range that the soldiers fired the missile on was itself larger than the state of Rhode Island (00:06:34:00) o Abbott and the other soldiers graduated in the beginning of July and because he still had four months left on his original enlist, Abbott was told to report to Fort Knox, Kentucky at the end of July (00:06:45:00) Active-Duty (00:07:12:00)  Once he arrived at Fort Knox, Abbott was assigned to the Army Training Center and a specific basic training company as an executive officer (XO) (00:07:12:00) o As an XO, Abbott did not have a full-time job because the company commander was there and Abbott would just occasionally fill in so that the commander could have a little time off (00:07:40:00) o However, Abbott received other assignments, including being the guard post officer several times, which was a little different at Fort Knox because of the gold supply stored on the base (00:07:52:00)  The guards were stationed in a building not too far away from where the gold was stored and the commanders made sure they all understood what to do if something happened with the gold supply (00:08:07:00)  When the soldiers pulled guard duty, there where three shifts, two of which stayed in the guard building; once retreat came, one of the two waiting shifts would take the flag down, fold it and a reveille the next morning, put the flag up (00:08:29:00)  The commanders made sure the guards had enough vehicles, more than the guards really needed because if something happened to the gold, the guards had run out and drive the vehicles to the gold supply (00:09:20:00) �     However, the guards were never told what to do when they were at the building where the gold was kept, only to wait outside the gate (00:09:37:00)  Not every assignment required the guards to carry live ammunition; all the guards carried weapons but only in certain areas, such as the bank, PX, or any place with money, did the guards carry ammunition (00:09:47:00)  Most of the time, the weapon a guard carried was either for show or was a night stick (00:10:07:00)  One time, they loaded halve a dozen bus loads of soldiers who had been trained at Fort Knox and took them to Fort Riley for a weekend and Abbott ended up having to do escort duty for trip (00:10:22:00) In August, the soldiers noticed that the Russians and East Germans were building a wall around West Berlin, which really excited President Kennedy, who called up a lot of higher ranking officers and NCOs and shipped them to Germany (00:10:41:00) o As best the soldiers who remained in the United States could figure, the deployed soldiers were either keeping an eye on what the Russians and East Germans were doing or stationed in West Germany in case anything went wrong (00:11:16:00) o At the beginning of September, Abbott was not due to be discharged until a month later but he received orders that he would be extended for another twelve months on active-duty on top of the original six months, meaning Abbott would have a year and a half enlistment (00:11:41:00)  Further down the road, Abbott extended for the remaining six months, making his enlistment a full two years (00:12:04:00) Towards the end of October, about three weeks before the original six months were complete, Abbott assumed command of the basic training company next to the company he had been working with as the executive officer (00:12:28:00) o Abbott stayed with the training company for the better part of fourteen months and completed six, eight-week basic training cycles; Abbott usually had between a few days and a couple of weeks off between training cycles (00:12:53:00) o When new recruits came in, Abbott went to the processing center and watched as the recruits received hair cuts and uniforms, which took a few days to happen; afterwards, Abbott, plus his platoon leaders and NCOs, went to the processing center and tried to march the recruits back to the company area (00:13:16:00)  Abbott and the other instructors had eight weeks to try and make soldiers out of the recruits by putting them through similar exercises that Abbott had gone through while at Fort Riley (00:13:52:00) o Just before his commanders turned over command to the lieutenant who was his XO, Abbott was promoted to 1st lieutenant (00:14:27:00) In October 1962 was the Cuban Missile Crisis, which caused excitement even Fort Knox and some soldiers from the base, although none from the training center, had to deploy (00:14:48:00) o At the time, Fort Knox was the main armored training center and some of the older soldiers on the base who had served during World War II told stories of General Patton coming to the base for training (00:15:05:00) During the same period of time, there were around a thousand Cuban exiles who had left Cuba and there was a program that they could join the military; however, when the � Cubans joined, the Army kept them as a separate unit, about the size of a battalion, and kept that battalion near where Abbott’s training company was (00:15:47:00) o Most of the Cubans could not speak English, only Spanish, so in order to have cadre for the battalion, the commanders pulled any Spanish-speaking cadre out of Abbott’s battalion and sent them to the Cuban battalion (00:16:25:00)  Abbott did not have any Spanish-speaking cadre in his company but the company he had left had two (00:16:47:00)  Every now and then, the Spanish-speaking cadre would drift back and talk with Abbott and the others and revealed that they feared for their lives working with the Cubans (00:17:03:00)  The cadre stayed with the Cubans all the time and they eventually determined they needed someone awake in each barracks every night because the Cubans would steal anything and everything, from weapons to ammunition, and get into fights (00:17:16:00)  The Cubans' assumption when they joined the program was they would receiving training and either the United States would invade Cuba or they would send the Cuban forces back, similar to the Bay of Pigs, which happened a month before Abbott went onto active-duty (00:18:05:00) o The NCOs who came back said that the Cubans had a lot of trouble accepting the concept of teamwork; each one had decided that when he went back, he was going to be the commanding general (00:18:32:00) o As well, the Cuban soldiers complained about almost everything (00:18:54:00)  For Abbott’s recruits, they had to march to reach the firing range and march back but the Cubans did not like that idea and they complained enough that the commanding general decided to use trucks to transport them around (00:18:57:00)  During one day in the fall, it was a rainy and chilly and Abbott’s company was on a firing range while the Cubans were on another range about a mile to a mile-and-a-half away, although Abbott did not realize it (00:19:36:00)  Once they finished on the firing range, Abbott had the recruits ready to march back when all of the sudden, they heard trucks coming and they knew what that meant (00:19:56:00)  The sergeant Abbott had running the recruits looked at Abbott, asked if he thought they should “shanghai” some of the trucks, and Abbott told him to go for it (00:20:23:00)  The sergeant went down, waved his hands, and the trucks drivers pulled up to the range, where the recruits loaded up and were driven back to their barracks; it took a couple of loads but the drivers took Abbott’s recruits back first before going to pick up the Cubans (00:20:40:00) Around the end of November, Abbott was relieved of his company command and assigned to the battalion headquarters to work as the S-1/S-3 in-charge of personnel and training for the battalion; however, at that level, Abbott had a sergeant major who did most of the work for him (00:21:06:00) �o At the time, the battalion had a newly-arrived commander, a major who was out to make a name for himself; although the battalion was good before he arrived, the major decided he wanted to sharpen it up (00:21:42:00) o The major told Abbott that he would take care of training with the company commanders and Abbott would take care of the paperwork (00:22:01:00)  Every company had a training NCO who had to keep track of the records for every recruit going through the training at the time; on occasion, a recruit would be sick or have another assignment that took him away from training and they had to get the training made up (00:22:16:00)  Towards the end of the eight weeks, usually in the seventh week, there was a large inspection and the higher-level officers would come down to inspect the paperwork (00:22:47:00)  The major had Abbott going to all the training companies, none of whom had the same schedule because they picked up their recruits at different times, which was a lot of the work Abbott did (00:23:00:00) o Another one of Abbott’s assignments was running an Article 32 investigation on damaged radio equipment that a soldier had taken out and returned damaged but refused to pay for (00:23:23:00)  An Article 32 investigation was similar to a grand jury, meaning it was typically run by one person, and after Abbott’s investigation, the soldier would still not relent, so he went through a court-marshal (00:23:46:00) o During that time, Abbott also served in the general court-marshal board for around a month to six weeks (00:24:02:00)  The board typically met once a week and heard whatever cases came before them for that typical day (00:24:10:00) Reserve Duty (00:24:26:00)  On May 9th, 1963, Abbott was released from active duty and assigned to the Army Reserve Control Group in Battle Creek, Michigan; Abbott did not have to immediately report, so he arrived at the assignment in July (00:24:26:00) o At the time, there were two reserve units stationed in Benton Harbor, Michigan; one was platoon-sized, with around fifty soldiers, and the other was companysized with around one hundred soldiers (00:24:48:00) o Abbott’s commanders attached him to the smaller unit, the 511th Transportation Platoon, which dealt with transporting soldiers and equipment around and was a B.A.R.C. (Barge Amphibious Re-supply Cargo) unit (00:25:07:00)  The B.A.R.C. was a massive four-wheeled vehicle that could not be drive down the city streets, so none were in Benton Harbor (00:20:30:00)  The unit’s summer camp was at Fort Story, Virginia, which was where all the B.A.R.C.s in the country were kept; the base itself was located where the James River flowed into the Atlantic Ocean, downstream from Norfolk, Virginia (00:25:48:00)  Larger Navy ships had to sail up the James in order to reach Norfolk (00:26:06:00)  There was a Navy post next to Fort Story called Little Creek and smaller ships, such as LSTs, were located there (00:26:12:00) �   The B.A.R.C.s were large enough to haul an M-60 tank, the largest tank the military had at the time, or an entire company of soldiers (00:26:28:00)  There was a ramp in the front that could be dropped so forklifts could haul cargo off or vehicles could be driven off (00:26:45:00)  The unit’s actual training with B.A.R.C.s happened for the two weeks they were at Fort Story in the summer and Abbott attended the camps 1964 until 1968 (00:27:01:00) o Although Abbott was attached to the unit in August, he was not assigned to it until November because the unit’s previous commanding officer had been promoted to major and the commanding position was only available to a captain, so they moved the major on, promoted his XO to lead the unit and brought in Abbott as the XO, where he stayed until the end of his Reserve duty (00:27:21:00) Abbott originally joined the Army in the artillery branch but when he was assigned to the B.A.R.C. unit, he changed to the transportation branch (00:27:54:00) o The Vietnam war was looking close at that point, although actual combat was still a few years away (00:28:07:00)  While Abbott was at Fort Knox, on some Saturday mornings, the officers and senior NCOs went to an auditorium and received lectures about what was happening in Vietnam; the war had not yet broken out but the Army was constantly putting Special Forces into the country (00:28:16:00)  Whenever a soldier went to Vietnam in the early part, he was a volunteer and Abbott knew several soldiers who did volunteer to go (00:29:03:00) o When he switch to the transportation branch, Abbott went to Fort Eustis, Virginia, which was there the Army Transportation Corps was located, to take a basic officer extension course (00:29:22:00) o Abbott finished the extension course in a couple of months and in Dec. 1963, the Army sent out orders that he had completed the course and had switched to the transportation branch (00:29:41:00) Abbott stayed in the service but the 1968, the Vietnam War was hot; Abbott was due out at that time but he hung on, hoping for a promotion and within a few months, received a promotion to captain (00:30:07:00) o Once he received the promotion to captain, Abbott asked for and received a discharge, finally leaving the Army in Sept. 1968 (00:30:34:00) Reflections (00:30:53:00)  Abbott feels that his time in the service helped him a lot, especially the time spent at the training center, although the first training cycle was horrendous (00:30:53:00) o Abbott had only been in the Army for five months and although he had been around the training, he had never had an responsibility in the training, so he did not know what he was confronted with and it was tough (00:31:03:00)  The company he took over had been the top company in the battalion for several years under the previous commanders and the top NCOs in the company had been there for the better part of a year, so the history was important to them (00:31:24:00) �   The company went from the top to the bottom but the one thing Abbott learned was that he had to start studying (00:31:45:00)  At one point, the first sergeant told Abbott that he was signing all the inspection orders and the other sergeants knew this, so they were writing down anything (00:31:52:00)  The other NCOs knew Abbott did not really know what he was doing and were nice to him, while the only one who confronted him was the first sergeant, who was a World War II vet that spent most of the war in POW camp and had been around (00:32:19:00) Abbott’s brother graduated from Michigan State three years after Abbott and by the time the brother got into the military, the hot war was starting in Vietnam; the brother was part of the quartermaster branch, went to Vietnam for a year, and helped set up a supply depot to the north of Saigon (00:32:53:00) o The brother did not have much experience in the enemy actually firing at him but every now and then, he would send a letter home saying that someone had driven past the depot in a jeep and the soldiers on the depot heard gunfire (00:34:06:00) Abbott’s brother-in-law also went to Vietnam and because he chose to make the military a career, deployed to Vietnam twice; the brother-in-law was also in the artillery branch, but in field artillery, and worked as a forward observer (00:34:31:00) Examination of photographs (00:35:36:00) - (00:36:56:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Abbott, Marvin (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Abbott, Marvin Description An account of the resource Marvin Abbott was born in June 1938 in Decatur, Michigan and after graduating from high school, attending Michigan State University. While at Michigan State, Abbott went through the ROTC program, which included a six-week basic training course at Fort Riley, Kansas. After graduating from Michigan State, Abbott received an officer commission and went to Fort Bliss, Texas for air defense artillery training. Once he completed the training at Fort Bliss, Abbott went to Fort Knox, Kentucky and served as part of the training units there. Following his active-duty service at Fort Knox, the Army transferred Abbott to an Army Reserve transportation unit using B.A.R.C.s (Barge Amphibious Re-supply Cargo). Abbott stayed with the Reserve unit for another five years, until 1968, when he received his discharge. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Bodnar, Christine (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-03-30 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context AbbottM Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8b2ca37aeff7318c62a4b7476ef1061a.mp4 693b2c4b5ec5659b6a764719622d94fe https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/02d0ae76f1a9c16796287a52a572e0c2.pdf 5d655c31f182e92c98e7d723e5cd229d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project World War II James Abrams Interview Total Time: 1:20:33 Background  (00:12) Born in Sparta, Michigan, in 1923  (00:27) His father worked on a railroad o Two siblings; mother died in 1928  (1:00) After his mother died, they headed west to California o They eventually moved to Montana, which is where Mr. Abrams spent most of his time growing up  (1:55) In Montana, his family raised sheep o Mentions that his father was a very good mechanic  (2:35) Mr. Abrams said he didn’t suffer during the Great Depression; his family always had food  (2:41) Went to school up until the 8th grade in Montana, then moved back to Michigan o Joined Civilian Conservation Corps camp o Moved to Grand Haven, met a friend o Got a job at Clark Piano Factory o Soon met his future wife  (4:20) Mr. Abrams joined the Marines o His friend joined two months before he did; ended up going to the 101 st airborne  (5:14)Enlisted in the Marines in 1942 after Pearl Harbor o Said the Pearl Harbor incident was why he went �Training  (6:38) For basic training, Mr. Abrams went to San Diego o They got him to San Diego by train o Remembers the train going through the edge of Mexico  (7:26) The first day of boot camp was rough o The drill sergeant told him as he goes down the landing ramp, the only person he can depend on is himself  (8:13) They worked all the time in boot camp; recalls when they were in formation one day the drill sergeant asked for volunteers to drive a truck somewhere o Said the truck had one wheel and two places to steer o Mr. Abrams said this is the first time he learned “never to volunteer for anything in the Marine Corps”  (10:30) Mr. Abrams said it was easy for him to adjust to life in the Marines, although sometimes he would get mad o Learned his serial number – still remembers it today  (12:04) Says he “got even” with the drill sergeant  (13:44) Said he was in good physical shape during training  (13:54) He learned to use weapons in training and mentions that he eventually became a squad leader  (14:07) Trained on a 30 caliber, 50 caliber machine gun, 37mm anti-tank gun, he also shot a 75mm a few times o Talked about halftracks  (15:30) Basic training was 60 days o Said that the first few days in the Marine Corps, new recruits are like prisoners o There were instructors telling them what they could and couldn’t buy o Mr. Abrams said there is something he bought because it was the only thing he could buy at that time  (16:38) After the first 60 days, Mr. Abrams said they went into their regular outfits o Went on liberty, etc. � (16:57) After boot camp, he shipped out right away Overseas  (17:16) Shipped overseas in a ship that was bigger than a LST, but not an ocean liner  (18:11) Remembers crossing the Equator  (18:40) Landed in the Solomon Islands o Went to Melbourne a few months later o After that, went to New Guinea  (20:39) Talked about Ernie Pyle being killed at Iwo Jima (Ie Shima, off Okinawa)  (21:14) Guadalcanal – there was still a bit of fighting when Mr. Abrams arrived here  (22:15) When he arrived, Mr. Abrams went into the 1st Marine Division, 1st Regiment, Weapons Company  (23:38) Base camp on Pavuvu Island  (24:06) In Melbourne, he says there were “15 women per man,” all the Australian men were in the Islands during this time  (25:02) Melbourne was mostly for R&R, but also “in case something happened”  (25:24) Remembers sleeping in a football field in Melbourne o Military beds on the bleachers  (25:55) When Mr. Abrams first joined the 1st Division, he said there were never any problems with the soldiers who had been there a while o Only one guy they had a problem with  (26:22) After Melbourne, they went to Cape Gloucester, New Britain o (27:08) Here was the 2nd battle he participated in  (27:22) Mentions that in Guadalcanal, he was shot at o Mr. Abrams shot back o At this point they were in the jungles, no base camps were built here o (28:12) Mentions that he went to sniper school; at this point he was a sniper  (28:32) The first time he shot someone: says he will remember it the rest of his life  (29:35) Mr. Abrams learned how to shoot as a kid; this was helpful � (29:56) “Always shoot the guy with the most stripes on.” o This is why the Marines never wore stripes in combat o Shoot the highest ranking soldier in line before anyone else  (30:31) He was in an ambush position  (30:50) On Cape Gloucester, all of the Japanese big guns were out o US landed here on Christmas day (1943) o The Japanese were waiting for them when they got off the landing craft on the beach o (33:44) Japanese also used Molotov Cocktails o After they captured the point, they were there about a week o (35:05) While they were here, Mr. Abrams said the enemy tried to bomb them  (36:17) After Cape Gloucester, they went back to Pavuvu o Red Cross had a tent here; served coffee o Ran into medics that told him of an instance where a man had been decapitated on another island by the enemy  (39:12) The next battle Mr. Abrams was in took place at Pelelieu o May have had one meeting about it to prepare them for the mission  (39:54) Says the people at Melbourne knew where his group was going to land before they did o Information leaked; this is why the man who was in charge would change plans at the last minute  (40:34) In Peleliuu, he said they “blew the hell out of everything” o Fire coming from both directions o Lost a lot of guys here o Believes this was the worst battle they experienced in the Pacific o Japanese had a lot of tanks  (41:08) They had 3 squads of 37mm antitank guns o Japanese had 105’s  (41:41) Remembers something like a big shotgun (canister round) � (42:40) Supported the weapons company  (43:07) They had 50 caliber machine guns, and tank destroyers o Each tank destroyer was open on the top  (44:17) M-7 (self-propelled howitzer) fired up as well as straight (used indirect fire)  (44:44) Mr. Abrams said he tried to stay as far away from the Japanese as he could o Says he was safer over in Japan, and mentions some injuries when he came back to civilian life  (46:18) Stayed in Peleliu even after the fighting was over o Doesn’t remember shots being fired after Japanese surrendered  (46:45) Didn’t see any prisoners; says he didn’t pay much attention to them  (47:30) Recalls a time when a fellow soldier was ordered to shoot a Japanese prisoner  (48:40) Remembers the first person he shot; something Mr. Abrams will never forget o Had to pull the trigger because he knew the enemy spotted him; the guy reached for his gun and Mr. Abrams shot him  (51:20)After Pelelieu, Mr. Abrams went to smaller islands nearby  (52:03) After Pelelieu, they started moving up the Pacific o Eventually went to Okinawa  (52:25) In Okinawa, Mr. Abrams was put in a Reserve Squad to go home o In a group of 5 or 6 men o Captain Thomasma; shot in the chest o Remembers a friend who was killed who had a girlfriend in Boston  (53:34) When they first landed in Okinawa, they fought o Didn’t run into the Japanese until they were on the other side of town (the capital, Naha)  (56:00) Talks about seeing the old capital city of Okinawa in a magazine years later, looking much better than what they had seen o “Had nicer buildings than we did in Grand Rapids” o American contractors were sent over there  (57:05) Mr. Abrams was involved in some of the key fights in Okinawa �o Remembers that it rained a lot  (58:05) Still used tank destroyers and large weapons on Okinawa  (58:23) Mostly offensive fighting on Okinawa  (1:00:41) After Japanese surrendered, Mr. Abrams went to the Casual Platoon o In a group of about 4 men o Waiting for a boat to take them home o New captain says they were going to China because Mr. Abrams volunteered  (1:01:54) Went on a ship to China o (1:03 :35) Was to stay there for 6 months o Mr. Abrams didn’t enjoy it o His job was to protect the Japanese here  (1:05:40) Recalls stopping riots in China  (1:08:09) Recalls seeing Japanese comfort women o Traveled with them Going Home  (1:09:50) Mr. Abrams got back to the U.S. on a slow boat from China o Took a train once he got to San Diego o Train to Chicago o Great Lakes Naval Station  (1:11:24) Got discharged March 17th, says he had malaria o This was the first time he had it o Had bouts of malaria later in life also after being married  (1:12:55) After getting home, Mr. Abrams got a job in Muskegon at a cement block plant o Injured his leg on the job  (1:13:40) Eventually went to work in Grand Rapids o Retired from here  (1:18:11) Mr. Abrams said being in the Marines helped him grow up fast � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Abrams, James (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Abrams, James Description An account of the resource James Abrams was born in Sparta, Michigan, in 1923, and eventually grew up in Montana. After moving to Grand Haven, Michigan, he joined the Marines after Pearl Harbor. After boot camp in San Diego, he was shipped to the Solomon Islands and joined the Weapons Company of the 1st Marine Regiment on Guadalcanal toward the end of the campaign there. The regiment refitted in Melbourne, Australia, and then went to New Guinea prior to landing on Cape Gloucester, New Britain. After that battle, they went on to the hard fight at Pelelieu, and went on from there to Okinawa. After the Japanese surrender, he spent several months in China escorting Japanese soldiers and civilians who were being sent home. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-06-14 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context AbramsJ1116V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4c518581998ba6a4e088bc60542975ec.m4v d31921a93dc65c98bf93ac38d78b9948 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3b24e3d994b13549ae16496c75cf8306.pdf 49b83ca0ba8d78a6023a6353c0d54289 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Raymond Acker Cold War; Vietnam War 17 minutes 57 seconds (00:00:11) Becoming a Chaplain -First served in the Army as an enlisted man -Served overseas with the 549th Anti-Aircraft Artillery Battalion as a radio operator -Returned to the United States and attended Philadelphia College of Bible -Attended the Reformed Episcopal Seminary -Did his graduate work at the Dallas Theological Seminary -Commissioned in the Army as a staff specialist -Received his 1st lieutenant chaplain commission at Fort Wadsworth, New York in 1964 (00:01:14) Pre-Vietnam Service -Went on active duty in July 1965 and served as a chaplain at Fort Polk, Louisiana -Left Fort Polk in 1966 and was stationed at Okinawa (00:01:32) Service in Vietnam -Deployed to Vietnam in March 1969 -Attached to the 159th Transportation Battalion (Boat) -Operated out of Vung Tau -In charge of moving supplies in the Mekong River Delta -He went to various ports in the Delta in the 159th’s area of operations to meet with the troops -Endorsed by the Independent Fundamentalist Chaplains of America -Held services for soldiers -Went to the USNS Corpus Christi Bay (helicopter repair ship), and held services on the ship -Occasionally took enemy rocket attacks at Vung Tau -Remembers during one attack a rocket hit the fuel area -Held some memorial services for soldiers -Mostly noncombat fatalities -Not much contact with the pilots (00:05:29) Stationed at Fort Polk -Before Vietnam, he served at Fort Polk with an advanced infantry training battalion -First battalion to train for combat in Vietnam -Had a mock village -Few noncommissioned officers or officers with prior experience in Vietnam -Changed over time as more men served in Vietnam -Time at Fort Polk was an outstanding part of his military career (00:07:35) Stationed at Okinawa -During his time at Okinawa, Chief of Chaplains Frank Sampson came to visit the troops -At this time, Raymond was with the 96th Ordinance Battalion -A the father of one of the soldiers in the 96th had served with Sampson in WWII �-Flew to a Marine base near where Sampson was visiting an Army unit -On the way to meeting Sampson, Raymond drove his truck into a ditch -The accident resulted in a sprained ankle -Thought it was the end of his Army career -Later attended Sampson’s retirement party in Washington D.C. -He avoided bringing up the incident at Okinawa (00:11:00) Stationed at Fort Hood -He was stationed at Fort Hood with the 1st Brigade of the 1st Cavalry Division -The day before his promotion he planned on throwing a promotion party -He was in the chapel offices when he heard a crash and dust filled the hallway -Went down the hall to investigate the source and found a truck in the corner of a room -It was a beer truck that had been delivering to the NCO Club uphill -Brakes had failed causing the truck to roll downhill into the chapel -Fortunately, nobody was in the room when the truck hit the building (00:14:34) Reflections on Service -Joined the chaplaincy because of his time as an enlisted man -Opportunity to meet the spiritual needs of military personnel -Later in life, he encountered numerous men that had heard of him during his time as a chaplain -Didn’t know them at the time, but they remembered him -Feels he made a significant spiritual impact as a chaplain -Accomplished without directly guiding or forcing soldiers � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_AckerR2053V Title A name given to the resource Acker, Raymond A (Interview outline and video), 2016 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-10-26 Description An account of the resource Raymond Acker first served in the Army as a radio operator with the 549th Anti-Aircraft Artillery Battalion. He attended Philadelphia Bible College, the Reformed Episcopal Seminary, and the Dall Theological Seminary and was commissioned in the Army as a staff specialist. He received his 1st lieutenant chaplain commission at Fort Wadsworth, New York, in 1964. He started serving at Fort Polk, Louisiana, in July 1965 before going to Okinawa in 1966. He deployed to Vietnam in March 1969 and was attached to the 159th Transportation Battalion (Boat) out of Vung Tau. He conducted chaplaincy duties in the Mekong River Delta and aboard the USNS Corpus Christi Bay. After his tour in Vietnam he served at Fort Hood, Texas, with the 1st Brigade of the 1st Cavalry Division. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Acker, Raymond A. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Keizer, Herman Jr. (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/x-m4v application/pdf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3e1bb646ba3d9c01479b2c50716841e7.pdf 64f38880d1a6bbc237add67415786909 PDF Text Text Young Lords In Lincoln Park Interviewee: Luis Garden Acosta Interviewer: Jose Jimenez Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 10/25/2012 Runtime: 01:59:23 Biography and Description Oral history of Luis Acosta, interviewed by Jose “Cha-Cha” Jimenez on October 25, 2012 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. "The Young Lords in Lincoln Park" collection grows out of decades of work to more fully document the history of Chicago's Puerto Rican community which gave birth to the Young Lords Organization and later, the Young Lords Party. Founded by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, the Young Lords became one of the premier struggles for international human rights. Where thriving church congregations, social and �political clubs, restaurants, groceries, and family residences once flourished, successive waves of urban renewal and gentrification forcibly displaced most of those Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, working-class and impoverished families, and their children in the 1950s and 1960s. Today these same families and activists also risk losing their history. �Transcript JOSE JIMENEZ: It was, what, a significant day? LUIS ACOSTA: It was a significant day for my mother and father, I’m sure, when I was born on March 17, 1945. But apparently, someone -JJ: And [who’s?] your mom and dad? LA: Apparently, more to the case, it was a day of great celebration for the nurses that were in the hospital because they were all, it seemed, Irish, at least wanted to be Irish. And so they were shouting and screaming at my mother that “He’s gotta be called [Patrick?], he’s gotta be called Patrick.” And my mother had no idea what they we’re talking about, but she kept hearing the word Patrick, and so that’s the name that stuck. So Luis Garden Acosta is this public figure that my family sometimes remembers as, oh, that’s Patrick, right. (laughter) But that’s the name, I mean, nobody obviously outside the family calls me Patrick, it’s -- JJ: And what was the date and --? LA: March 17 -- JJ: March 17, what -- LA: -- nineteen forty-five. JJ: -- nineteen forty-five, that’s right. LA: Right, [0:01:00] but it was -- JJ: And it was here, it was here? LA: It was right here in Brooklyn, and, you know, I’ve lived in Brooklyn on and off ‘cause, obviously, I went away for school and came back. But, I’m a child of the 1 �’50s who came of age in the ’60s and, slowly but surely, began to see that so many of us were oppressed. I lived in what was then the largest housing project in the world, Fort Greene houses, and certainly the poorest in New York City. The most violent in terms of gangs, the Mau Mau, Chaplains, and other gangs that were circling around it, so it was a very tough upbringing. My father died when I was seven, and the wind got knocked out of us. I mean I -JJ: You mentioned his name, right? LA: His name was Luis. JJ: Luis (inaudible) -- [0:02:00] LA: He’s Luis -- JJ: -- Junior? LA: -- [Agosto?], I’m Luis Acosta, kept the a in there. JJ: And your mom -- LA: But thank God -- JJ: -- (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LA: -- he wanted to make sure that I wasn’t a junior. JJ: And your mom? (laughter) LA: Good for him, thank you, Pop. JJ: And your mom’s name, Luis? LA: My mom is Maximina Acosta from Boquerón -JJ: And your -- LA: -- but everybody calls her [Mina?]. JJ: -- your siblings? 2 �LA: My sister is [Linda?]; I only have one sibling. She lives in Wisconsin with her husband, and she’s become a country bumpkin, they both have, although her husband would always tell me that he couldn’t get used to the country. He’s a real devoted aficionado of John Coltrane. He’s a medical doctor, African American, born and raised in Roxbury, much where I saw you last actually. And, you know, he would go in every weekend to Boston, [0:03:00] but he told me -not every weekend, every weekend of the John Coltrane Festival every year. And he told me the last time he went that he doesn’t know whether he’s gonna go anymore. I said, “Well, why not, [Edison?]?” He says, “Well, you know, I found the people to be rude,” (laughter) so he’s, kind of, gotten used to the country and the country ways so that -- she’s in Wisconsin. My mom died two years ago at the age of 97, and as I said, my father died when I was 7. Now, I can look at my birthday pictures, and I look at pictures throughout my life up to that point. I’m so well-dressed, I’m fat, I have, you know, every toy that you can imagine, I’ve got all the stuff we were living in, in the housing projects, of course. And that was due to the fact that, at the time of my birth, those housing projects had just been built for people involved in the war effort. And my father was a hard hat at the Brooklyn Navy Yard, [0:04:00] so he was eligible. So, it was like a first step for the working class in that part of Brooklyn. And it was very diverse, mostly white housing project, but by the time my father died, it was becoming more Black. And then of course as I became an adolescent, it became more an African American community and Latino community, so... JJ: And this was (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) 3 �LA: -- so I remember that -- JJ: -- what section of Brooklyn? LA: -- this is the -- it’s called Fort Greene. JJ: Fort Greene, okay. LA: And I remember that I began to realize this whole question of resources, economics, money when my father died because my mom would tell me in her suffering, long suffering of my father’s death. It was sudden. He never had gone to a doctor in his life -- oh, to a hospital rather in his life. And one day he’s not feeling well, he goes to the hospital, [0:05:00] a week later, he’s dead of rheumatic fever and pneumonia and complications. All of which he would not obviously die today, he’d recover and go home in a week, but in those days, the medicines that we take for granted today just weren’t there. So, we realized that we had no money, that all we had was a Social Security check, and at that point, that was less than what my mother could get on welfare. So that meant that I would have to wear army clothes from the Korean War to school because those were the hand-me-downs that my cousins, coming back from the war, would give me to wear. Means I couldn’t expect much at Christmas, if anything, and that I had to work to a paper route and other jobs that I took on to get presents for my daughter as – daughter, here we go -- my sister, who really felt like my daughter at that [0:06:00] point. Because I really had to look out for her so that she could get and have at least some of the things that I enjoyed when I was growing up. Christmas presents, all of that stuff, and I make sure she had them, but it was very tough. And I remember one day, my mother was very stressed out and 4 �didn’t know what to do. Everybody kept telling her, “You should go to the welfare department, you should go to the welfare department.” She didn’t wanna do it, but finally, she goes to the welfare department. Now, I saw my mother cry twice in my life -- the day my father died, and she was inconsolable, and the day that she went to the welfare department. She came back, you know, I hear fumbling in the door, I open the door, she’s crying, wailing away. I thought somebody had died. I said, “Ma, what’s wrong, what’s wrong?” She said, “I am never, ever, ever going back to those people, I am never going back. They treated me [00:07:00] like an animal, I will never, ever, ever go back to those people. We’re gonna somehow survive without them,” and she was so adamant about it. And I think the rage that I had against the welfare department started there, that moment. That what could they have done to my mother? How could they have talked to my mother in such a way for her to feel that way? I will never forgive whoever the bureaucrat was that did that. But the whole system was a mess, and I think that moment, the seed was planted in me to cast my lot with the poorest of the poor, and to mobilize and work to empower our community, people like my mom and the people I grew up with. I remember once, now that I think about it, the other moment in my life when I began to realize that the welfare department was something to be feared and [00:08:00] changed was one day when being taken care of... My mother went back to work at the factory, sewing machine, you know, like so many of our mothers, sewing undergarments and for very little money, by the way. And so I was being taken care of by the neighbor downstairs on the first floor, and she had other kids. And so there’s a knock on 5 �the door, and suddenly, she says, “Quick, hide him under the bed,” me. So I’m going, “What’s goin’ on here? Is somebody gonna shoot us or something,” you know?” I’m put underneath a bed, and one of her kids says, “Don’t you say a word until we tell you to come out.” Now, can you imagine -- I dunno, I must have been eight or nine, I forget [00:09:00] -- being hid under a bed without any explanation? I dunno if someone’s gonna come in with a gun and kill them, I dunno what is going on, I mean my imagination went wild. I mean, I just was praying to God that this would be okay. And I remember saying, “What, who was that?” He says, “It’s the investigator.” I said, “Who’s the investigator?” I said, “Who’s the --?” but, you know, they didn’t let me talk. They just told me to keep quiet until the investigator left, and then they said, “Okay, you can come out now, everything’s okay.” I said, “Well, what happened?” They said, “No, we can’t let the investigator see you.” I said, “Well, why not?” They said, “Well, because that’s the way welfare works.” “Welfare?” He says, “Yeah, you know, that’s how. ‘Cause, you know, our father died --” By the way mysteriously killed by somebody, they just found his remains on the street,” and a very nice family too. [00:10:00] “--and so we had to go on welfare, and, you know, they don’t allow Mom to have any other kind of money coming in. And since your mother pays my mother for a few dollars, she can’t tell them that because we need the money.” JJ: Why do you think your father was killed? LA: Their father? JJ: Oh, their father. 6 �LA: Their father. To this day, they don’t know, they just found his remains on the street, I have no idea, it was horrible, so anyway. Now, my dad died of natural causes, you know? JJ: Mm-hmm. LA: Unnatural today, but then of course, you know, without the medicines, a very common occurrence. So, I think that those moments in my life, you know, if you asked me what went on in my world to make me think that I wanted to do something about the injustice [00:11:00] that I saw. I think certainly the issue of the welfare department was big. Now, I remember once also that -- and this is kind of comical. You know, again, I was doing everything I could to make money, I mean I would sell Christmas cards, I would do all kinds of stuff I would sell. My mother would make handkerchiefs because that’s what she did in Puerto Rico to survive, you know, and I would sell those, door-to-door, and I had a paper route. So, I remember that the worst day for the paper route was a Wednesday because that’s the day that they put in all the advertisements and coupons and stuff. I said, “Oh, man, Wednesday, my arm would be dead,” you know, because I had to carry those things. And on this particular Wednesday, everybody is talking to each other, all the men that I would deliver this to and people on the street, about O’Malley and how horrible it was and cursing at him. And I’m saying, [00:12:00] “Who’s this guy O’Malley?” and I’m going like, “What is this all about?” Everybody was totally upset. So I finally asked somebody, I said, “Why is everybody upset about this guy, you know?” And he says, “Oh, it’s because he’s taking the Brooklyn Dodgers from us.” I said, “He can’t take the Brooklyn 7 �Dodgers from us. I mean that’s the Brooklyn Dodgers, I mean that’s Brooklyn, Brooklyn owns the Brooklyn Dodgers, right?” “No, Brooklyn does not own the Brooklyn Dodgers.” “Well, how come it’s the Brooklyn Dodgers?” “Well, kid, you know, you gotta grow up. The Brooklyn Dodgers are owned by one guy, his name is O’Malley, and he’s a bad guy, and he’s taking them to LA or somewhere in California.” And I said, “Oh, that’s not possible, how can one person own a baseball team? That’s insane.” I mean to my mind how can one human being own a community’s baseball team? It didn’t make any sense. Well, of course, I began to learn a little bit about capitalism then [00:13:00] and much to my horror. So, I think those, you know, moments in my life, and one very critical moment I think that really addressed it all was behind my thinking. It was a very early age, a young age, and I was in Catholic school. I went to Catholic school all my life, except for Harvard. Harvard was my first public school, and that’s how we Catholics talk about it, you know? JJ: Yeah, what was the name of this school, the Catholic school? LA: St. James. JJ: St. James. LA: St. James Pro-Cathedral because it was built as a cathedral -- as taking the place of a cathedral that was never built. So eventually, they threw in the towel and said, “Okay, it’s the cathedral, right, and now it’s a basilica,” so, but then, it was Pro-Cathedral. And, you know, one day, we’re going through The Sermon on the Mount. [00:14:00] And the sister is talking about what is sometimes referred to as The Last Judgment Gospel -- I think of it as the Community Gospel 8 �-- where Christ is talking and trying to describe what are the principles of a good life. When he says, “At the end of the world, people will be divided.” On this side will be one group, and on the other side will be the other group. And he will say to the group on his right hand, he will say, “Come beloved of my father, for you have given me to eat when I was hungry, you gave me to drink when I was thirsty, you sheltered me when I was homeless, you visited me when I was in prison or sick,” or what we call the seven corporal works of mercy in the Catholic church. [00:15:00] And, of course, some will say, “When did we do this? We never saw you, we never really did see you, so we couldn’t have done that.” He said, “Because you did it to the most oppressed, you did it to me.” Just, you know, those words, “‘Cause you did it to the most oppressed, you did it to me.” And then, of course, the other group, because you did not give me to eat when I was hungry, did not give me to drink when I was thirsty, did not visit me when I was in prison, in the hospital, et cetera. For you did not and -- treat me as a human being.” And they’re gonna say, “Well, we never saw you, we never did that.” “‘Cause you didn’t do it to the most oppressed, to the lowliest of us all, you didn’t do it for me.” And I was pretty shocked by that [00:16:00] because as the sister explained, that this was the basis on which people would go to heaven. And I’m going, “Wait a minute now, it’s not going to mass every Sunday?” “No.” “What about eating meat on Friday?” “No.” “Really? It’s not about the rosary every day?” “No.” “It’s not about the nine first novenas?” I got my list, you know. He said, “Well, all those things you’re supposed to do and you have to do, and of course, if you don’t, it’s a big sin, et cetera, et cetera. But what Christ is saying at 9 �that moment is that that is how you treat your fellow human being that is the basis of your eternal life.” And it said in the Gospel, how can you love God who you can’t see if you can’t love your neighbor who you can see? [00:17:00] I think that was the most indelible impression, and so -JJ: And how old were you then? LA: I was in grammar school. JJ: Grammar school. LA: Grammar school. So you had that and then the welfare incidence and then the O’Malley thing. See, all that happened in grammar school, so I’m like, “Oh, okay.” Now that I’m thinking about it, one other thing. I guess there’s many things when I’m -- you know, it’s funny, it’s interesting as I talk now, I’m beginning to see how this Young Lord happened. JJ: So who were your friends in grammar school? LA: Well, that’s what I wanted to say. My best friend was an African American. Now, I went to Catholic school, as I said, and one of the wonderful things about the school was that it was a working-class, mostly White school. But I say wonderful because I got to meet Italian Americans, Irish Americans, Polish Americans, and we were very, very tight. My best friend [00:18:00] was an African American, and it was interesting because he lived in Farragut Houses. And Farragut Houses were built, sort of, one step up, so we, kinda, looked at him like almost middle class, they were not at all. But, you know, like I lived in an apartment that didn’t have any separation between the living room and the kitchen, it was just one room, you know. Sometimes I didn’t have my own room, so I slept in this living 10 �room-kitchen thing. So they had separate bedrooms, they had a separate living room, they had a separate kitchen, a real one, so we said, “Wow,” you know. And His father worked for the FBI, of course later, I learned he was a clerk ’cause he wasn’t allowed to be anything else in those days. But the fact that he was an African American and was a clerk in the FBI was big for all of us and, of course, for the Black community. And the family was from the South. So we became very, very close [00:19:00] friends, and they would always invite me on vacations, Easter week, you know, stuff, full weeks, sometimes two weeks in the summer I think. I went down a lot, and the first time I went down, and I’ll never forget this, again, I’m in grammar school, about -JJ: What do you mean you went down in this --? LA: I went down with him to visit his family, you know, sort of on vacation, right? JJ: Okay. LA: And I’m going to Lexington, Virginia, to an all-Black community. There’s nobody white who lives in that part of Lexington, Virginia, so it’s an all-Black community. And it was wonderful, you know, nice house and nice hills around it and dogs, and we could really run around, and it was just natural. I mean I’m coming from brick and gray cement to a [00:20:00] very verdant place where people are just alive and connected, and it was such an exciting time. I loved [Jay?], and we were very tight. We were also very, very committed to science fiction, and we wanted to build a robot someday. I wanted to be a nuclear physicist, you know, [yeah, those?] craziness from watching science-fiction movies, right? JJ: Mm-hmm. 11 �LA: And there was one science-fiction movie that we missed, and I don’t know how because we were always on top of it, but somehow we -- I don’t know what happened. And I think it came from outer space or something like that, right? So we missed this, and we were like really jumping on each other’s back for whose fault it was not to be on top of it and who didn’t remind who. And we’re walking through town, through the main town, you know. Of course, the town is mostly white, right? And there it is, [00:21:00] the movie theater on Main Street, and there was the movie. And I go to Jay, “Jay, there it is, oh my God, and we’ve got money, we can do this, we can go” because we were going to the movies, right? and he said, “No, we can’t go.” I said, “What are you talking about? And your grandmother says it’s okay, we have the money to go to the movies, this is what we’re doing. Why can’t we go see this movie? This is the movie that we’ve been screaming about not seeing.” He says, “We can’t go in there.” I said, “What do you mean we can’t go in there? Look, come on, let’s do it.” He said, “No, we can’t go in there, talk to my grandmother, I can’t talk to you about this.” I said, “What are you talking about?” “I can’t talk to you about it, talk to my grandmother.” I says, “Oh.” I thought maybe it was polio or some disease, that’s how I thought, oh, it’s some kind of disease in there, somebody got it, and so he’s forbidden to go into the theater, and I get that, you know? [00:22:00] So that night, so we wound up going to, what, I think was called the National State Theatre to see The Lone Ranger. I’ll never forget that movie because I was so upset. I mean I like The Lone Ranger, but I was so upset that we didn’t see a science-fiction movie. So his grandmother was just one of the most loveliest, 12 �loving, caring woman I’ve ever met; she just exuded love. And I remember asking her, “[Mrs. C?], you know, we went to the movies today.” She says, “I know child.” I said, “Well, Jay and I love science-fiction movies, and we watch every one of them, and we saw this movie that we missed in New York. And I wanted to go and, and I don’t understand why we couldn’t go. And he said that we couldn’t go into theater, and he told me to talk to you about it. So what happened, somebody died there or something?” [00:23:00] She said, “Son, there’s a lot of good people in this world, a lot of good people, and they’re all different kinds of colors. But there are some bad people too, and a lot of them don’t like Black people, people of our color. And they’re not well, but they really don’t like us, and they don’t allow us to be with them. And so there are certain places that we can’t go, and so we have to be very, very careful here. It’s not like in New York City, you have to be very careful how you treat these people and that you know the places you can go and you can’t go.” And she looked at me, and I’m looking at her in disbelief. I didn’t know at that moment what I felt. I felt hurt, really hurt, [00:24:00] really, I almost wanted to cry. I felt anger, uncontrollable anger, a rage inside of me. I can remember almost trembling, but here, this woman who I loved was telling me this, so it had to be true, but in the United States of America? And this is happening, and there’s nothing we can do about it? JJ: Now what year was this? LA: I graduated from St. James Elementary School in 1958, so this had to be in the 1956 or 1957. You know, I don’t think it was my last year, it was not, it wasn’t my 13 �last year. So I was either 11 or 12, maybe around 11, and I’ll never forget that, I will never forget that. JJ: Why, did you feel it was you too, did you identify with him or --? LA: Oh, yeah, [00:25:00] I mean look at me. I was very clear from the very beginning that I wasn’t white, you know, and my father is a Black Dominican, although his niece, my first cousin would say he’s Indio. (laughter) F1: Right. LA: Oh my God, anyway, but, you know, he was a Black Dominican, and of course, so... My grandmother, who was the first woman who really, I remember as -after being born, besides my mom, obviously, and my dad, who took care of me, because my father sent for his mother to take care of me. And so that my fondest moments of being loved and cared for were by a Black woman. Of course, my first cousin said she’s Indio but -- and she’s got Indian features but she’s Black. She’s got Indian features, I give [00:26:00] her that much. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible), yeah. LA: So she’s probably mixed there, right? JJ: (Spanish) [00:26:03], her name? LA: Well, you know, my -- JJ: Your grandma, your grandma. LA: -- yeah, my father’s name is Garden okay, so, and her name, you know, was [Abuela?]. You know, we’re the only Garden family in the Dominican Republic. It’s quite interesting because now, there’s been a resurgence of connections through the internet. So we’re finding actual cousins as a history on the Garden 14 �side of real political involvement. I remember when -- you know, and this is going a little aside now on the Dominican side but -JJ: That’s all right. LA: You know, one day, my sister and I were watching Roots, but maybe for the third time and – which just happened to be on TV. And it was [00:27:00] pre-VCR days and stuff like that, so, you know, you watched whatever was on, right? And so we’re watching this and then as a joke I said to my sister, “You know, maybe we should find our own Kunta Kinte and our own because we don’t have any connection to our Dominican side.” When my father died, I had one aunt here, and she was very mysterious about... And I love this aunt, and she was loving to me in every way, and I love goin’ to see her, and we were very bonded, right, but she would not tell me anything about the family. For some reason, it was all a mystery, and my sister and I couldn’t figure it out, but we just had no contact. So my sister said, “Yeah, we should, we should figure it out, we should find them somehow.” I said, “Yeah, well, let’s try looking up people in the phone book and see what happens, is there another Garden?” So she did, and she called that person because it was [00:28:00] pre-internet days, right. And that person turns out to be my first cousin, and they had known about us. I think it was... I mean it’s definitely after I was in the seminary, so they had known that I went to the seminary, that I was gonna be a priest. They knew a lot of stuff about me and about Linda, but they didn’t know how to contact us. And so we made the contacts, and we connected, and it was terrific. And then we finally went to Santo Domingo, went to Dominican Republic with my mother. My mother was 15 �able to see her husband’s family for the first time aside from my cousin who came and stayed with us and my grandmother. So it was a marvelous time for my mom and for my sister and I, and it was like, you know, going back to Africa in a way. It was like, you know, being a descendant of [00:29:00] Kunta Kinte and coming back to the Rio, whatever that river was. And they picked us up in the airport, and they said, “Okay, before we take you to the house, we wanna take you somewhere, so you know who you are.” They took us to (Spanish) [00:29:15], and there, of course, are the remains of the people who led the independence struggle and the remains of my great-great-grandfather’s nephew who wrote the national anthem. JJ: Of Santo Domingo? LA: Emilio Prud’Homme, yeah. JJ: Okay. LA: And -- JJ: What was his name again? I didn’t get it. LA: Emilio Prud’Homme, and he, you know, was a big figure in Dominican history, and of course, I had no knowledge of this. I didn’t know that. There’s a letter behind you right there to my father, from his brother from the [00:30:00] -- I guess the White House of the state of Puerto Plata, from the palace, acknowledging my father’s letter and telling him that he was fine and all kinds of things. Well, that’s my uncle, and he was president of the region of Puerto Plata five times in a row, so he was literally there forever, you know. But I didn’t know this, so it was an interesting part, you know. So people would say, “Well, this is why you were a 16 �Young Lord, this is the Dominican side of you.” (laughter) I said, “Oh, really?” So I think it was the Puerto Rican side. (laughter) But it was interesting ’cause a lot of my Puerto Rican family is, kind of, mellow, you know, so... But on the other hand, I’ll never forget the day that I think we had some kind of meeting or something at the Lords, and I came home, and usually... [00:31:00] It must have been early on in my life as a Young Lord because I remember that I would always take the beret off and would not wear it in the trains, would not give the police an excuse to attack me, so... I guess I didn’t this time, and I walked in Fort Greene Projects, you know, into my mother’s apartment, into our home, with the beret on, and my mother saw the beret, and she went crazy. (Spanish) [00:31:34] I mean, classic, classic, (Spanish) [00:31:38] Puerto Rican style, started screaming. My mother’s not that kind of a person. She’s a very religious woman, right, strong, but she wasn’t into screaming and going crazy, you know? Well, she went nuts. She really started screaming and screaming and crying and “No, this can’t be, this can’t be,” and I’m going, “What’s goin’ on [00:32:00] here?” She just looked at me, and this happened. So, my aunt was there, thank God, and, you know, she’s my favorite aunt on my Puerto Rican side and the person I was closest to in the family. And she went to see that my mother’s okay in the bedroom, and my mother’s crying, I could hear her crying, you know. And so, she comes out after a while, you can imagine how I was, I said, “What’s going on here?” And she said, “(Spanish) [00:32:31] you don’t know anything, right?” I said, “No, what, what is there to know?” She says, “You never heard the story?” “No.” “Well, we weren’t supposed to tell you, so I can understand. Your mother 17 �would tell us everybody, they could never mention this to you. We can never talk about it, so it’s the big secret in the family.” I said, “What secret?” She says, “Well, [00:33:00] how your mother came to this country?” and I go, “Well, what’s it -- how she came, how you came?” She says, “No, no, no, no, no, your mother came before us.” I said, “Well,” she says, “Well, the reason why she came was because the family, seeing that she was dying, that she would need -- that she was very depressed, that she was losing so much weight. (Spanish) [00:33:25] It took a year or so to raise enough money to be able to buy a ticket for her on a boat and send her up to the family here.” I said, “Why, what happened?” She says, “Because the man that she loved, the man that she was to be married, a week before her marriage on Palm Sunday was killed along with other people in Ponce.” I said, “The Ponce massacre?” I had heard about it, of course, you know, as a Young lord, I knew about it, [00:34:00] but I didn’t know that I had such a personal relationship to it. And she said, “Yes, he was one of the 22, and in fact, you know, he took blood, his own blood, and he wrote on the sidewalk, “(Spanish) [00:34:25].” I said, “Really?” “And you really can’t mention this to your mom, we’ve gotta calm her down, but after this, do not say a word. Never mention this because she could get very sick.” I said, “Okay.” You know, I remember growing up, and I remember because my father, particularly when he was alive that -- which I can remember, we had... You know, my father was a very generous guy, a hardworking, typical, working-class guy [00:35:00] who understood what hunger was, he went through that in his own life. So when cousins would come, you know, in the late ’40s and ’50s, right, come into Puerto 18 �Rico as part of the whole wave. People would get there, he’d always have the house available on Sundays for food and the entire family, so many people came over, and that’s how I got to know my whole family. And every Sunday, that’s what it was. And I remember once that somebody said, “Albizu Campos.” Now, you know, if you’re growing up in Brooklyn and somebody says Albizu Campos, that doesn’t sound like the name of a human being. It’s not like, you know, [Maria?] or [Luis?] or something, you know, you didn’t... So Albizu Campos, [00:35:49] and you think it’s one word, you don’t what it is. Albizu Campos (inaudible). So my mother, being the religious person that she is, I thought it was some kind of curse word like [00:36:00] (Spanish) [00:36:01] or something, another one I could never understand, and so... But I know that when somebody said that, my mom [says?], “Well, we don’t speak that way here.” So that’s what she did, she said, “We don’t speak about that here,” so okay, must be some kind of bad language. I never thought about it until of course that day, and all the pieces began to fit. I began to realize what was going on here was my mom, when my father died, how she went into deep depression, again, real deep depression, and that that was really just a recurrence of her first love. You know, she was at her friend’s house who made dresses and was making her wedding dress. My aunt told me, that [Beying?] [00:37:00], her pretendiente, her fiancé, dropped her off, and she had a premonition, my mom did. And she said, “What, where are you going?” He said, “Well, you know, we’re gonna have a march because of what happened, we have to come out.” And she said, “Oh, no, no, no, I heard there’s gonna be trouble” because in Ponce in those times, you know, 19 �people were talking about it and how bad the police were behaving. And, of course, some police officers got shot, and there was a big problem, and that they were looking for revenge, and that the governor and all that were behind them. So she said to him, “Look, you have to be careful because this is not good. I mean, what’s happening here?” He said, “Oh, don’t worry about it, it’s a Palm Sunday march, it’s kids, families, I mean, you know, it’s peaceful. We’re not gonna create any trouble, but we want to take a stand.” And he says, “You know, I’d rather die with my boots on than cower. [00:38:00] It’s time for us to be who we are as Puerto Rico, to be independent, to get rid of these Yankees, so I’m gonna take a stand, I’m gonna be a part of it. It’s gonna be peaceful, but we’re gonna stand up as men,” you know? She made that point. So he was killed. When my mother saw me, it was like coming full circle, full circle in life, and then she saw me dead, that’s what she saw. That’s why she responded the way she did because she thought, here goes the love of my life at this moment, the only one left, and they’re gonna kill him too. JJ: You mentioned the seminary, how did you get into that, the --? LA: Well, you know, let me have a little cafe. JJ: Oh. LA: My drug of choice here. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) here you go. LA: You know, [00:39:00] when you go to Catholic school, you realize that you have great heroes around you. Of course, the nuns were amazing. And also, you have to understand that it was the ’50s and the early ’60s, right, so there was no 20 �Peace Corps, there was no war on poverty. I never saw a social worker, I never saw a Puerto Rican doctor, a Puerto Rican priest, a Puerto Rican anything, right? And no real models around which to channel what was now becoming a real deep-seated feeling about injustice and about what had to be done in the world. So I began to think that perhaps God was calling me to the [00:40:00] priesthood, that God was calling me to do something special. I had dreams about it, you know, typical stuff, stressed out, and thinking about it. And so I began to think that, yeah, this is what I have to do because this is the one way, the only way that I thought I could make a difference. That I could really contribute just to try to begin to end the horrors that I had seen. And I remember a priest, a missionary priest, from the Congregation of the most Holy Redeemer known as Redemptorist. They’re the ones who created Santa Maria Reina in Puerto Rico, the Catholic university church there. I mean, they had a part in it, but they ran the church. And they had missions in Paraguay and Santo Domingo and really all over that Latin [00:41:00] -- all over the world really. The Redemptorist is the third largest order at the time behind the Jesuits and Franciscans. So he talked about, you know, the work that he was doing in Latin America and Paraguay. He talked about the hunger and the poverty, and he talked about his order as going to the most abandoned. I mean, I understood that immediately as the most oppressed, and so I was really moved by [Father Mike Travis?]. I was serving his mass, I was his altar boy, and he was visiting our church, but I was really moved by that, and so that was one, sort of, major moment in my life. But the one that really got me thinking about it and that I really wanted to model my life 21 �after was that man there, Monsignor John Powis. I met [00:42:00] him as a seminarian, he wasn’t [even?] a priest. He was one of these white seminarians, little Father Powis. I mean, he’s so much a part of us that people swear he’s everything but white, you know, I mean, really and... But then he was somebody from outside Fort Greene Projects coming into Fort Greene Projects to just hang with us, connect with us, part of a group of people who worked under the mentorship of a wonderful Catholic nun. She belonged to the Trinitarian Order, and her sister name was Sister Thomas Marie, but who she was really, her secular name, if you will, was Isolina Ferré. In fact, she went back to that name even as a nun when things, you know, opened up after [00:43:00] Vatican II. And Isolina Ferré is the sister of the governor, Ferré, the modern leader of the statehood movement in Puerto Rico, a very decent, honorable man, by the way. There’s another story I could tell about meeting him, but she was wonderful. And Father Powis, then John Powis, the seminarian, right, was, sort of, her mentee. These group of seminarians worked with the Trinitarian nuns to learn from them and to extend their work in the projects. So I was part of it as a kid, I was like 12, I was just either graduating or about to graduate from St. James, yeah, about to graduate when I met him. I guess I was in the eighth grade. Then [00:44:00] when I did graduate, he was ordained and his first assignment was my parish, St. James. Why? Because he was a pianist. I didn’t know that, nobody knew that, and we had the home of the Brooklyn (inaudible) and Choristers. The pastor of the church, Father Toomey, was the leader of the Brooklyn (inaudible) and Choristers, and they were very famous. They went all over the place singing, 22 �beautiful and fantastic voices. And so Father Toomey requested an aide, an assistant, who could lead the choristers, and so he was a concert pianist, done. So that’s why he came to St. James, right, but little did Father Toomey know that he was not interested in that. What he was interested in is me and young people like me and in the projects and in connecting [00:45:00] and really serving and working with the poor. So that became rather apparent quickly on, and of course, they went into a struggle for all the time that they were there, right? But I admired Father Powis for that; I admired for how he stood up to the pastor and how he wanted to really perform the corporal works of mercy. How he was about feeding the hungry and giving drink to the thirsty and clothing the naked, how he was about being a Christian. And it was the first time that I had really seen a priest that actually, actually lived what Christ was talking about in the Gospel to the extent that he would -- I mean, a big complaint about Father Powis is if you saw him without a coat, and somehow you gave him a coat. Well, you know, you might have given that coat in the morning, but by the afternoon, he’d given it to somebody else. I don’t think he owned a coat half the time. He used to walk with holes in his shoes. We saw him, we said, “Oh my God, he’s got [00:46:00] cardboard,” just like we did, and I mean it was the same. And it wasn’t that he was trying to be like us or he’s romanticizing poverty in any way. It was just that he always felt somebody else needed something more and that he could do without. That he could live a life of doing without if that would help somebody else. And so I was inspired by him, and of course, my father had died, so he became my father, and I wanted to be like him. So that consolidated the idea 23 �totally in my mind, I wanna be a Catholic priest like Father Powis. Now, he belonged to the diocese, so he was just, what we called, a secular priest. In other words, he was part of the diocese. He became ordained by that bishop and he worked there. But Father Mike Travis was a missionary, and a missionary that went to the most oppressed. At that point, I didn’t think I was the most oppressed because, you know, I thought that, well, I eat three times a day, I’ve got [00:47:00] a roof over my head. We’re very, very poor, but, hey, look at these people in Paraguay or look at these people in China, look at these people in Africa. I’m rich compared to them, right? So I wanted to, of course, cast my lot with those who are the most abandoned. I’ve never asked about Father Powis what he thought about my decision; he’s very good about it. He said, “Well, this is great, wonderful,” the whole thing, very supportive all the way. But I guess he had to wonder why I would choose an order that wasn’t his, but... Because he was the one all through the seminary that I would go to. In fact, he went -- you know, it was a 12-hour trip to get to St. Mary’s Seminary in North East, Pennsylvania, right next to Lake Erie, and he made that trip at a time when I really needed him, so... I suppose I became a Young Lord because of how the welfare department treated my mom and my neighbor, and [00:48:00] because I wanted to be like Father Powis, and because I really wanted to heed what the Gospel talked about, about really being there for your neighbor. And that I saw so much suffering going on, especially in the Puerto Rican community where we had so little that when I heard... At that point, let’s say when I returned from the seminary, I wanted to see how I could express my priesthood in a more worldly 24 �way, and let me explain that. I remember once, they went into a whole new grading system in the seminary around conduct and application. Now, they were very strict. [00:49:00] I mean, if you really messed up, you packed your bags that night, and I saw that, you know. On the other hand, there were always little things that people do, but maybe they shouldn’t have done, minor things, right. So they had a system for basically telling you what your grade was in application, what your attitude was in applying yourself, and in your conduct. So they went to a system of numbers. So the priest said, “Now, no one’s ever gonna get 100 in conduct and application because that would mean that you’re perfect, and none of us are perfect, so... But we expect, oh, everybody get 95, you know, 90.” So I said, “Okay.” We all said, “All right, we’re [going to get?] 95,” or whatever it is, you know and... But there were two people in the seminary that I [00:50:00] knew of, at least in terms of when I was there, that got 100, 100. It was Tom Curley, amazing, amazing man, who became a priest, who was the one person that I met in my life who really loved knowledge. I mean, of course, I met wonderful priests and great academicians at Harvard and people like that who were very, very much committed to understanding the world and to really acquire knowledge, but he had a love affair with it. I mean he loved reading the encyclopedia. I think we saw him read it like three times or something, the whole thing, the Britannica, and we, “Hey, Tom,” said, “so what letter are you up to today?” that kind of thing, you know. He just loved learning. Everything was just beautiful for him. Whatever we were learning, Greek, whatever it was, he embraced it. [00:51:00] He was a very humble guy, extremely humble. You 25 �know, somewhat, off in his own world half the time, but really, because he was so kind and so generous and so humble, you know, “Hey, Tom, come on out.” ’Cause he couldn’t do sports, he couldn’t do any of that, so “Oh, it’s all right, oh yeah, okay, you can’t catch that one, okay, no problem, Tom,” that kind of thing, we just loved him. So he got 100 and 100, and I got 100 and 100. Now, I wasn’t Tom Curley, and I wasn’t certainly the best, but I was good at watching my back, you know. But, I mean, certainly, I’d never go for the 100 and 100, but I got it anyway. So, I only say that because I was really committed, very committed to becoming a Redemptorist priest, I wanted to. I had a very strong desire to embrace medicine. [00:52:00] I was thinking maybe they could send me to medical school, have some conversations about them. Of course, they weren’t teaching me any science, you know, other than the required physics course, which was not much, a general science course at best, but I was trying to learn as much as I could on my own. And I was definitely focused on healing, so I was thinking and hoping that they would send me to medical school, so I could be a priest-doctor. But after a while in the monastery -- and let me just explain the monastery. The monastery, so you graduate from St. Mary’s Seminary, which is a high school and a junior college, and then you take a break for all academic studies, and you go into this monastic existence for one year. You have no contact with the outside world, no contact with your family, no letters, nothing, no TV. I mean, with a couple of [00:53:00] exceptions; I’ll get into that. But literally, you are to spend the time of prayer, meditation, of learning the ways of the order, and of getting ready to take vows. Because then you take these vows and then 26 �you go on to the house of philosophy and the house of theology and then you get ordained. Come back for another year in the monastery and then go out as a priest. So, you know, all total, it’s 12 years to ordination and another year, 13th, yes. So you can say that I had finished the first six years, although I didn’t start in the seminary as a freshman. I started in high school here, the Catholic high school here, so... JJ: You were in the seminary, were you in high school you say? LA: High school and college, junior college, right. And so, [00:54:00] in the seminary -- no, in the monastery, there was only my class, so I don’t know how many we were, about 22. It wasn’t a whole lot of young people, right, and we were all, what, 17, 18, 19 but so young. And of course, the priests that were there were all there for us. Some were retired, but for the most part, they were there for us, and they were there to support us in our journey. But as I walked in every day to this big dining hall, which we call the refectory. Before you went into the main doors, through the main doors, you would see -- I remember on the right-hand side as you walked in -- a map of the world. And you would see, of course, enlarged the United States, and underneath the United States, there would be a legend explaining the different marks on the map that would relate to how many [00:55:00] schools the Redemptorist were working in, how many schools they had, how many churches they had, and then the United States was divided north and south. So if you look down in the south, there was the furthest subdivision, and that was in terms of color, how many schools white, how many schools Black, how many churches white, how many churches Black. And I looked at 27 �that. Now, you know the rage that I felt at realizing there was such a thing as segregation and afterwards the racism and the white supremacy, that that really was behind that. So I would look at that every day, and I’m going, huh, what is that? And then finally, I said to my classmates, “What is that white and Black stuff?” and they said, “Oh well, that’s the South.” I said, “What are you talking about?” “Well, we have white churches and we have Black churches.” [00:56:00] “Wait a minute, you have white churches and you have Black churches? So you mean if a Black person goes into church, you’re not gonna let them go into church?” “No, no, we let ‘em go in.” “So what’s the problem?” “Well, they have to be in the back.” I said, “What do you mean you have to be?” “Well, they can’t be up front.” “So you don’t let them go to communion?” “Oh, we let them go to communion, but they have to wait for all the white people to have their communion first, then they can go out for communion.” I said, “Are you really telling me this is what you do?” They said, “Yeah, look, this is -- Luis, you don’t understand, you’re from New York City, this is the South.” And the people I was talking to were from the South, said, “So, it’s a different culture there, we have to deal with the reality of the South. You know, you have a different life in the North, I know that, but in the South, that’s the way it has been, and it will always be that way. So we have to conform, or we can’t be there.” I said, “Are you guys crazy? I mean, are you really [00:57:00] -- are you listening to what you’re saying?” They said, “Luis, come on, calm down, this is like you’re [Atoms for Peace?].” They used to call me [Atoms for Peace?] stuff. Because they were supportive of nuclear war, and I’m going, “Are you guys nuts?” I mean, really, you 28 �know. So like three things that I wound up saying, you people are insane, the whole issue of racism and the support of it, the question of, you know, nuclear annihilation, and the support of their so-called just war. And I’m going, “There cannot be a just war if you have nuclear bombs, it’s impossible,” and they didn’t want to accept that. And of course early on, I said, “It was insane to have our services, our masses in Latin because nobody understands what’s going on, and what is the point?” And it seems so logical to me, and they said, “Oh well, yeah, sure, but that’ll never or it might change maybe a thousand years from now, you know how slow the Catholic church changes.” And I’m going, [00:58:00] “It’s gotta change now, and we’re gonna be priests, we’ve gotta make it.” They said, “No, you can’t do that because you’ll defy the Pope.” Like, “Give me all kinds of reasons why you could not use your common sense.” So I love them now; these are my brothers. You know, I understand when marines say, “They’re my brothers” because you do bond, and I did bond with them, and they were very much my family. But I remember the day that I told the novice master that I just felt that I had to leave, and he tried to talk me out of it of course. They had been thinking about me as being a bishop someday in Latin America, and they had great hopes. And spoke to the provincial, the provincial wanted to see me, you know, it wasn’t the easiest thing to do. And it wasn’t the easiest thing for me because I loved my fellow classmates; I mean, we were a family. [00:59:00] JJ: And you also did it also because of social justice in terms of --? LA: I did it solely because of that. Look, I went on with this a long, long time in my mind. I just could not leave because I could not leave my family. But what 29 �finished it for me and the reason I had the nerve and the courage to be able to talk to the novice master about it, which meant that I was making a decision, finally, was because one day, we were allowed to see a television program there. We had been allowed to see one other television program before. It was a debate between a Protestant and a Catholic priest, Protestant minister, about something related to ecumenical sort of approach, and it was great. I remember that, because at that point, it was on TV, it exciting, [01:00:00] whatever it was because we [didn’t?] see TV. The master had to leave for some meeting or something, and so the junior guy, who had just been ordained and assigned there, right, who was a Republican -- I’ll never forget this -- pro-Goldwater type said, “Well, you know, novice master is away today, and I’m in charge. And something’s very important happening, and I think you guys should see it.” So we went upstairs to the TV room, and I’m going, “Wow, this must be a very heavy debate between the Catholic and Protestant for them to want us to see it.” I’m going, “But anyway, hey, we’re gonna watch TV, so that’s good,” so... And he puts the TV on, and at that moment, Martin Luther King comes out to the microphone and says, “I have a dream.” I mean, imagine you don’t see TV at all, you don’t know what’s going on, you don’t read newspapers, you don’t know anything that’s going on. And what you see for the first time is Martin Luther King [01:01:00] say the I Have a Dream speech, the famous speech. And for me, it was like God was talking to me because here I was. I didn’t tell anybody that I wanted to leave, and I didn’t tell them why. Because in my heart I felt, you know, if I stay in the order, I’m just gonna be a rabble-rouser because I’m not, not ever 30 �going to accept the division between white and Black, never gonna happen. I’m either gonna get thrown out, and I also was supposed to be such a model student, I mean, it will be a horror. And so I thought God was talking to me, and I said, okay, that’s it, that’s it, and then I went to the novice master and eventually left. But I left hoping to think maybe to become more like Father Powis, but the war in Vietnam was just starting, people did not even know about it at the time, [01:02:00] but I was very concerned. And of course ex-seminarians usually wind up in Brooklyn in St. Francis College, and that’s where I wound up because that’s -- you have to go somewhere. You’re like a fish out of water; the world seems very strange. JJ: What is St. Francis College? LA: St. Francis College is a Catholic college in Brooklyn. JJ: They take -- seminarians [go there?] --? LA: Ex-seminarians go, I mean everybody goes there, but in those days when there were seminarians, and a lot of seminarians coming out, they usually went to St. Francis first, and that’s where they would move to. So I was told, “Go to St. Francis;” I said, “Okay, I’ll go to St. Francis.” Now think about it, St. Francis, the peacemaker, his famous peace prayer, well, that wasn’t the case at St. Francis. In fact, a friend of mine and I went to this rally that St. Francis was holding down the block right there in front of the [01:03:00] Borough Hall, and it was a rally to bomb Hanoi. It was the early days of Vietnam War, and it was a conservativesupported thing that we should go in with greater troops, and the whole thing just, you know, wiped the world of Vietnam, and it was horrifying. It was horrifying 31 �because a brother actually said the prayer first, you know, and that’s how the rally started, and it was well attended. And my friend and I, we were just, like, totally blown away because we were pacifists both of us, we said, “Oh my God.” So, soon after I left, I said, “I can’t do this class.” Eventually, of course, I got more and more involved in the antiwar movement, and I went to every major march. The only march that I did not go to in Washington was the Pentagon march ’cause [01:04:00] I think that was during the week, I couldn’t do it but ev-JJ: What years were these? LA: This was 1967 --’66, ’67, ’68, those late ’60s. JJ: Were you part of any group or you just went? LA: You know what, actually, there was two groups that I belonged to. One group was the tight-knit group. In ’67, I became a member of John Lindsay’s mayor’s office and the youngest one, and there’s a whole story behind that. But there was really some cool guys because what John Lindsay wanted to do was to recruit ex-civil rights and welfare rights people, and I was a welfare rights organizer. It was the first major organizing that I did. Or people thought it was impossible to organize welfare clients into a union, but we showed it was not only possible, but that we could create a City-Wide [01:05:00] Coordinating Committee of Welfare Groups and then a national organization, and we did all that. And then when the chairperson of the City-Wide Coordinating Committee of Welfare Groups, Frank Espada -- JJ: Oh, I know. 32 �LA: You know Frank? A very noted, wonderful militant organizer. Most people know him as a photographer, and he’s a great photographer. Of course, his work is now a part of the Smithsonian is the -- JJ: Who did an exhibit in Chicago -- LA: Right. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LA: The (inaudible) and Diaspora exhibit, which I hope someday will come -- JJ: The Hawaiian-Puerto Rican exhibit. LA: Exactly, exactly. So Frank, who was my compadre, my best man at my first marriage and who I was very, very close to and close to his family, and, man, I was there all the time practically. When he got [01:06:00] the job, eventually, he allowed me to volunteer, and eventually, he figured out a way to get me the job because I was very young. And my history just in terms of organizing was really welfare rights, but I was really into it, and I had learned a lot, and I had become a very good organizer. And Frank knew that, so he wanted me to organize the war on poverty, particularly here in this community in Williamsburg and other communities, but this would be my main community. So I did, and as part of that group, there was a bunch of us, like [Benny?] and others, that were really against the war in Vietnam earlier on. This is before people, kind of, put up to this, and we wanted to make sure that there was a Puerto Rican presence. The marches were mostly white, and we wanted to make sure that the world knew that Puerto Ricans were against the war. [01:07:00] In those early days, a lot of Puerto Ricans weren’t, unfortunately, because we all swallowed the anti-communist 33 �propaganda and that kind of thing. So it was difficult talking to even members of our families about this because they would feel that somehow, we were being cowards in not going to the army. Or they would ascribe all kinds of other issues to the real issue, which was that it was an immoral war and that we had to stand up against it, so... Not to mention the fact that we were pacifists, which is a whole other can of worms for some people. So anyway, so we decided we’d get the biggest Puerto Rican flag we could get, huge, right? And if you look with a magnifying glass at all those pictures, just look for the Puerto Rican flag, and I’ll be right underneath it. So I was very much in that whole, sort of, Catholic Social Action [01:08:00] effort also. So it was that plus Catholic Social Action circles that I was part of, the [Bergen?] Fathers, the Catholic Worker, Catholic Peace Fellowship. They helped me very much get my deferment, you know, because... JJ: So you marched with the Bergen? LA: Oh, yes, I was very much a part of because I was from the seminar, still feeling like, “Okay, I’m trying to express my priesthood, this is the way I’m gonna do it.” And so it’s no longer gonna be in a structured Catholic church, it’s gonna be Catholic Worker, it’s gonna be a soup kitchen, it’s gonna be this, it’s gonna be that, it’s gonna be the antiwar movement, you know. So, that’s where I was in 1969, in December, when I heard about this group of young people who were trying to get a church to perform the corporal works of mercy. I said, “Oh my God,” [01:09:00] and this is what had moved me all my life, right? So I hear that they were trying to create a breakfast program, they were trying to get a clothing drive going. They were trying to get a liberation school where young people 34 �would learn about their history. They were trying to help people in all sorts of ways. They were tryin’ to perform the corporal works of mercy, what Christ told us would be the criteria for acceptance into the kingdom of heaven. They were tryin’ to be Christians, and that for that, the police had come in and beat them up and bloodied an entire church. And that had just happened, and the word spread like -JJ: So the police came in and...? LA: The police. Because it was the First Spanish Methodist Church. Now, I’m a Catholic, so we have a different set of rules, but within the ceremony of the service of the Methodist Church, there is [01:10:00] a moment when one can speak up and pray out loud and talk to God about things that are happening, right? And so Felipe Luciano, who was the first chairperson of the Young Lords, had tried with other Young Lords to speak to the pastor of the church who was from Cuba. And so unfortunately, what he saw when he saw the berets was -well, he fled. So he saw Fidelistas, and he didn’t want anything to do it. So, of course, Felipe also has a Protestant background, and he had friends who went to that church, whose families went to that church, so explained the process to him. So he said, “Well, we’re gonna go to church, let’s go to church and let’s just plead our case directly.” So he got up and said who he was and said why they were there and what they were doing. And as soon as he did that, [01:11:00] the pastor gave a nod to a plainclothes police officer in the church. He went outside and brought in uniformed police officers, a whole bunch of them who started 35 �swinging their billy clubs at the Young Lords. They broke his arm, there was blood over the entire, entire church, it was horrible. And it was the first time -JJ: The entire -- LA: Felipe’s was blood and other Young Lords, yeah. And I am told it was the first time ever that the New York City Police Department ever entered a church during a ceremony and actually assaulted people. So that news went all around the world, and of course, you know, it basically got to everybody in New York City and Latinos talking about it, and I heard about it immediately. And then we were told that next Sunday there was gonna be a -- that people [01:12:00] are gonna go up there support what the Young Lords were doing. And so we went up there, and the Young Lords just had the church, and they basically talked, and it was wonderful. And I remember I was sitting next to Richie Perez who was his first time too. He was a teacher, and I liked Richie because Richie looked normal. (laughter) I mean, we all had long hair, but that was normal for us in those days. But, you know, he had a job, he was a teacher, he was real, he didn’t look as flamboyant as Pablo and Felipe. You know, they were really great guys and very charismatic and all that, but for me, it’s a little scary. Remember, I’m from the seminary, you know, and they’re talking about armed struggle and stuff like that, and I’m going, “Ooh, I don’t know if I can do that, [01:13:00] it’s not for me,” so... And Richie -- JJ: You’re a pacifist. LA: I’m a pacifist, right, but I agreed with them and everything that they were saying, and I was moved by them [hence?]. But I figured I have to get some kind of 36 �reading on this from a guy I can trust, so at some point, I turned to Richie. I said, “Richie, would you consider joining this?” ’Cause right there, I was there, I was there, I was so there by that time, right? Because what was missing in my life was, yeah, I had the Catholic Social Action Group, but it was mostly white, loved them, but it wasn’t my people. I had this small, little group at work, but we were singular, right? There wasn’t a group. I tried the Movimiento por Independencia, but I thought, you know, I can’t really hang with these people and my Spanish isn’t good enough. You know, I thought it was a Spanish issue, right? JJ: Mm-hmm. LA: Later I realized it was a class issue, right? JJ: Yeah. LA: But, [01:14:00] then it was like I’d be tongue tied, (Spanish) [01:14:02], et cetera., you know, so I really couldn’t hang with them. I liked them, especially since they were committed to independence and of course brought me into the culture, the music, the poetry, the cancion and all that. But they weren’t me, you know, and they didn’t really represent our experience, so I didn’t have a group. So when Felipe was talking and Pablo was talking and Juan Gonzalez, and I had met David before then -- JJ: David Perez. LA: -- David Perez, yeah, through a friend, and I trusted that friend. So I knew David was a good guy, a good working-class guy, a guy like me, like my family. I was really ready, but as I said, they were very charismatic and very forceful, and I was enraged as they were, but [01:15:00] I don’t know if I would use that 37 �language. And so when Richie said, well, he’s thinking about it, I said, “Well, okay, Richie, if you join, I join,” and we both joined together the same day. JJ: And then after you joined, what kind of actions were you involved in? Was there a demonstration --? LA: Wow, well, of course, the first thing was the people’s church. We’d be taking over the church and holding it, I think, for about 14 days, wasn’t it? JJ: Yeah, I went one day, I came from Chicago. LA: Yeah, you did? Yeah. JJ: Yeah. LA: Well, it must have been a very special day. JJ: Yeah. LA: So I had a child and -- JJ: And what’s your child’s name? LA: Arianne, [Arianna?], and Arianna was, you know, maybe -- yeah, she was born in 1968, so she was about a year old. And so that meant that I could not be there every single day or at least could only be there for a few hours [01:16:00] every day, right? So we all planned this, this takeover, and it was understood that, at some point, the police were going to come and arrest us. And so, you know, I -- JJ: Make sure you don’t say anything -- LA: I was given a dispensation for being there for that because obviously I had a daughter, so I missed that one and... But, you know, I was involved -- JJ: First, you guys took over the church and so -- 38 �LA: Yes, we took over the church, and eventually, after negotiations, et cetera, et cetera, we were arrested, you know. But we held it for a good long time. JJ: How many people were arrested? LA: Jeez, I don’t remember. JJ: But I mean a lot of -- LA: A lot of people, yeah, but – and it was in the middle of the night, basically, who did that kind of number. But we had, you know, for like -- was it 14 days? I can’t remember how many days it was. [01:17:00] For a good while there, every single day, we had so many different activities there. I mean, you could see what it was that we were talking about because it was all about -- JJ: What kind of activities were --? LA: Oh, everything from cultural activities to the actual practice of the activities we wanted to begin with, the practice programs, the liberation school, the clothing drives. All that stuff happened in those two weeks, and it was wonderful. Of course, every day, the headlines, you know, when is Lindsay going to act and, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff but we were doing all kind. Even at one point, we had a real religious service there with the bishop of Puerto Rico who came, remember? JJ: Right. LA: And the gospel was from the Red Book; he quoted Mao. I thought I’d died and gone to heaven; (laughter) It was amazing, so... So I remember those days; it was just very moving. [01:18:00] But I was involved in the health and education minister, so I was under the leadership of Juan Gonzalez, which was great, 39 �because Juan was amazing and still is a very close friend. And so I was involved in issues around TB testing and sickle cell anemia, and my focus was TB testing and in other areas like -JJ: And you guys -- LA: -- the clothing drive and stuff. JJ: -- someone to the team for it to -- LA: I’m sorry? JJ: Someone -- LA: Yeah, yeah, oh well, yeah -- JJ: -- during that time? LA: I wasn’t there for that, okay. JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LA: But, yes. Well, they had this mobile TB, tuberculosis, truck where you could get an examination and an x-ray. And it was in some part of Manhattan that really where it was a middle-class community, people had access to health care. It really was in the wrong place, so they weren’t getting much business, right? So [01:19:00] very politely, we told them we’re taking over, and we told them where they had to go, and, of course, I think they were probably a little concerned, but there were many of us. So they moved to East Harlem, to the block where they really could get a lot of people, and people needed those services. At the end of the day when the reporters came and everything else came, and they asked people how did they feel about being kidnapped, and they said, “Well, no, we weren’t. In fact, you know, they were right, we were in the wrong place and they 40 �treated us very well, and we should be here.” I think early on, our reputation grew as the so-called “Polite Revolutionaries” in New York City. Unlike what the media had portrayed as the Black Panthers. I mean the Black Panthers were as polite as we were, but they got the bad press. We got a lot of favorable press because everything that we did, eventually, people say, “You know what, they were right, this is [01:20:00] what we should be doing.” We took over Lincoln Hospital, but it was after creating the Think Lincoln table where we would get complaints. And we would basically generate all these complaints and bring them to administration, “Look, this is stuff that you’ve gotta deal with, right?” Of course, they didn’t wanna deal with it, so we had to organize the nurses as part of -- some of them, of course, not all of them -- the Health Revolutionary Unity Movement, the HRUM. And together with them and other doctors and people who worked in the hospital, we took it over. Now, at the end of the day, people said, “Yeah, Lincoln Hospital should be closed, and no one should be opened, and the Young Lords were right,” so in almost every situation. I think only one situation that -- well two situations where I think -- and we ourselves felt [01:21:00] that we were wrong -- was when we took over the church again. I was in Boston by the time I -- [Josephina?] and I had opened up the branch in Boston. JJ: (inaudible), okay. LA: And I founded the branch in Massachusetts, and so I was there for most of -- a lot of this, right. And so what happened was that we took over the church again but with rifles. Now, I wouldn’t have been a part of that, you know. Now, it wasn’t that -- 41 �JJ: It was that time, it was that era. LA: Yeah, it was that era and... JJ: Today they call it Occupy but it was the same --? LA: It’s the same concept, yeah, the same concept. JJ: It was just that era that -- LA: Yeah, and, you know, we were very, very upset. We felt we had -- take a dramatic kind of action. Richie was telling me about it -- [01:22:00] JJ: I’m not saying it was wrong, I’m just saying of that era. LA: Richie was telling me about it, and I said, “Richie, come on, guns, come on.” And Richie just bowed his head and said, “Yeah, bro, I know but...” So Richie would never tell me it was wrong either, but I knew what he felt, and that’s why he became a wonderful brother to me. And I always considered him my mentor even though we’re the same age, but I would always go to him to think things out around politics particularly and our struggle, so... That was one that I think, you know, some people, rightfully so, would argue that that wasn’t the best day for the Young Lords. I think the other one was the takeover of the front of the Puerto Rican Day Parade. And, again, we were brought in from Boston, you know, I came with my guys and stuff, [01:23:00] and we were told that we had decided that we had enough of the Puerto Rican Parade being led by the New York City Police Department. That the people should lead the parade, and that what we were gonna to do was to jump the parade and be at the front. So that was the plan, and I’m going, “Richie, does this make sense?” It’s like I’m out from Boston, so I’m like just getting it, I’m not a part of the thinking process, I didn’t go 42 �through in this, and I’m going, “Why would we wanna do this?” I mean I remember going to the Puerto Rican. The early days of Puerto Rican Day Parade, you would just show up and walk the streets, that was it, and my mother did that, so... And so I remember as a young boy walking with my mother on Fifth Avenue, and it was wonderful, so I had fond memories of the Puerto Rican Day Parade. I do understand the politics and how it’s used [01:24:00] basically to aggrandize certain so-called political Puerto Rican leaders and how the politicians use it basically to pacify our community in some cases or win votes. And you know, it seemed like the police department, given the kind of assaults of our community that the police department had perpetrated, shouldn’t be the ones leading it, so it made sense in a way. But on the other hand, you know, taking the front of the parade was gonna be a dangerous kind of thing, and people might take it the wrong way, and it may not be something that we should be doing. And I told Richie that, and he said, “Bro, we thought about this, it’s important,” blah, blah, blah,” and I said, “Okay.” So the mistake was that we were not gonna wear for the first time our [01:25:00] berets or anything identifying us as Young Lords. The idea would be that we would go -- at some point when the parade nearing us, we were gonna jump out into the streets, disclose who we were because people followed us, they trusted us. Again, they marched with us 10,000 strong to the UN. I mean, everything that we did was huge, people -- and rightfully so. We were very good and very respectful at what we were doing all the time. And so that was the plan, except we hadn’t counted on the fact that we had people that had infiltrated Young Lords and knew about 43 �these plans, that the police department knew about these plans. And so all of a sudden, from out of nowhere, comes this big Puerto Rican flag. That goes on to the street, people start screaming and hollering, you know “Young Lords.” And then these people that looked like the so-called classic militants jump [01:26:00] out and tell people, “Come on, come on out to the street.” Now, the people knew that we were gonna take the front of the parade, right, so they go out into the streets. Now -JJ: So these were agent provocateurs. LA: Agent provocateurs, and I’ll tell you how I learned that because there was one guy particularly who was moving everything. Black, maybe African American, or Black Latino, I don’t know, but he had a beret on, and he had all kinds of medals. You know how we were told all the time, anybody who has a lot of buttons, you gotta worry about them, they’re probably an agent, right? So he had all that stuff on, and he was telling me, “Come on, we’re taking the front of the parade, we’re taking the front of the parade.” And then we’re going, “No, no, no, stay back,” but they wouldn’t listen to us because they didn’t know we were Young Lords. They thought that was the Young Lords. The flag was out there, people just jumped, the parade was nowhere near us, and the police were on the side streets, you know, totally armed to the hilt with all kinds of gear and trucks and everything. Just it was a setup [01:27:00] so that they could come in and mop the place up, literally, and arrest us all, clean the streets before the parade even got there, and that’s exactly what happened. A lot of people hurt, I saw a baby carriage go up in the air, I saw horrors that I had never seen before. I remember that people 44 �were screaming and trying to get into the lobbies of the buildings on Fifth Avenue, and the doorman would not let them in. And I remember that you can only do this when you’re so in the moment that you get this kind of strength. I remember that, I said, “Look, these people have to get in, there’s a mob of police officers swinging their police clubs, they’re gonna get hurt.” “Oh, we can’t let you in,” I said, “Yes, you are gonna let us in,” and I took one with one hand, and the other with the other hand. Now, come on, how strong [was I?]? Not that strong. I lifted them both and threw them. Now, I don’t know how I did that. [01:28:00] It’s impossible normally because I wasn’t that strong, just normal. I opened the doors and said, “Come on in,” and people went to the lobby. So when I had them secured, I went back out to see what else I could do. I saw the guy that started it all after the flag, the African or Black Latino dressed up as a so-called Young Lord. And I followed him because I wanna see who this guy was. And I followed him, followed him, followed him, and he was moving up back to the front of the parade. The parade by that time had passed by. Of course, a lot of people oblivious to what happened ’cause it was all in the press in the night and everything else, [the stories?]. But those people behind them had no hint that something like that had happened. People were bloodied and -(break in audio) M2: Yeah, that’s the only piece that’s missing because my project’s more specific to who you are now so -- LA: I think I was talkin’ more about today, right? M2: You talked about today and the [01:29:00] past were you -- you know? 45 �LA: Yeah, whatever, so you look at it and tell -- M2: That’ll be great. Yeah, I think that’s missing, so let’s -- LA: Okay, let’s -- we’ll do it. So... JJ: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LA: Okay, yeah. (break in audio) JJ: [Really?]? LA: Really JJ: [Sued?]? LA: Yeah, I mean ’cause we sued. JJ: Now we were talkin’ about when we -- (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LA: I feel like so (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) yeah, he did, he did real time. (laughter) I got money for my time. F1: Your -- (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) JJ: Okay, now we were talking -- LA: So I’m watching this guy, and other people had also, when they saw what was happening, started walking up away from the police, right? JJ: Mm-hmm. LA: So all of a sudden, I see him jump to the other side of the street, and there, I see on the ground an elderly gentleman who just had a heart attack. He was one of those people. I guess all of the horror that he saw just got to him, and he had a heart attack and actually [01:30:00] died. And so he immediately goes to the -- 46 �he was the first one on the scene, and I’m right behind him. He doesn’t notice me, and he immediately, you know, checks for vital signs or anything else. I’m going, hmm, and then the police come, and then he takes out his badge. I said, “Son of a gun, you know, they just set it up totally.” So that’s how I knew that it was all a setup. JJ: This is gonna be the Puerto Rican -- LA: Puerto Rican Day Parade. JJ: -- Parade? LA: Yeah, so that was not a high point in our history. But the support -- JJ: So why wasn’t that a high point? I mean what do you --? LA: Because we didn’t understand fully the kind of (inaudible), the reporting that was going on, number one. Number two, because it just wasn’t the right thing to do, [01:31:00] with a sacred cow like the Puerto Rican Day Parade. You know, there are some things that are done incorrectly and are exploitative of our people, but our people believe in them. And so it’s not our place at that moment to contradict that, but to create a context for our people to understand what’s really going on. So I believe that we didn’t create that context for that Puerto Rican Day Parade. We just confronted it believing that we had the people on our side. And I guess if we had done it in a way like we used to do things, right, we might have been able to pull it off. JJ: What do you mean the way you used to do? LA: Well, I mean, the early days of the Young Lords. I wasn’t there, obviously, but the stories that I first heard when I got to the People’s Church. But this is in the 47 �summer of ’69, and the People’s Church was in December of ’69, right, on how [01:32:00] the Young Lord started. The Young Lords started basically as the Sociedad Albizu Campos, a bunch of college students from Stony Brook and Columbia, Juan and others who had gathered together mostly because of Mickey bringing people together, Mickey Melendez, and some kids who were not in college who had also somehow connected with them. And, you know, it, at first, was more of a study group of people tryin’ to figure out what to do. You know, they were, sort of, more of the classic Marxists who thought you had to read the 50 books of Lenin before you could even do anything, you know, and others who wanna do everything without even thinkin’ about it, so it was that mix. So finally, I guess as a compromise, they decided, well, here’s what we’re gonna do. We’re gonna go on a Saturday morning, and we’re gonna go and clean up the streets. The number one issue that people could obviously see was a major problem [01:33:00] was the garbage because garbage was piled up in our communities like a couple of stories high in some cases. The city had basically abandoned the kind of garbage pickup they had on Park Avenue. That wasn’t for us in the so-called ghetto. So we thought that if we could clean up the garbage, people would see that, and they would follow our lead, and before you know it, we had people engaged and we can begin to start demanding our rights. So we started doing that as the story goes, and people saw us, and they mocked us. They started saying, “What do you think, you guys the sanitation department now?” so they didn’t get it at all, you know? And so people went back to their clubhouse, you know, and said, “What was that about?” It’s like, we gotta change up that 48 �somehow. We thought, okay, the next time we do this, we’re gonna put the garbage in the middle of the street. [01:34:00] We’re gonna stop traffic, that’s gonna get people’s attention, and that’s gonna really demand that the city, in fact, change their policy, so we did that. Now, I think a couple of people knew what Felipe was gonna do. I’m not sure all the Lords knew at that moment, other than the central committee, what Felipe was gonna do. I’m not clear; I wasn’t there. But Felipe doused the garbage with, I guess, some flammable liquid and torched it. And then, as the flames sprang up, screamed at the top of his lungs, and you know Felipe can scream, he’s got an incredible voice, “(Spanish) [01:34:42]!” And everybody heard that, and people were opening up the windows and said, “What’s goin’ on here?” and he said, “The Young Lords!” And so we did that, all right, but we had like a van plan, we had an escape plan immediately. So immediately, we knew that we had to go into the stores, the bars, [01:35:00] the restaurants, we had to go in there immediately. Everybody had sneakers on because we could run fast, take our beret out, put it back in, look normal, and then come out as the people came out and said, “Whoa, you know, the Young Lords were at it again.” And this happened every weekend in the summer, to the point that by Friday night, there were helicopters over El Barrio looking for Young Lords to see where they were gonna strike next. We’d always do it, we’d always strike, we’d always do the same thing, and we’d meld into the masses and come out with everybody else, and nobody knew. Everybody assumed that Young Lords like, I don’t know, hundreds and hundreds of people, like the Black Panthers that stay out in the West Coast, but the reality was, it was a very small 49 �group of guys. Some women, definitely, Sonia Ivany and others, but mostly young people and a very small group at that. So, you know, that was [01:36:00] the kind of thinking that was going on in the Puerto Rican Day Parade, but as I said, the police department was one step ahead of us. JJ: Okay. You mentioned (inaudible). LA: Yeah. JJ: What was that, what was your involvement with --? LA: Well, I founded El Puente and then -- JJ: Oh (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) LAC: -- El Puente -- and I founded El Puente in 1982 because -JJ: And El Puente is what, what is that? LA: Well, El Puente means “the bridge” in Spanish. And I thought that given what was happening in our community, that we needed a more mass-based place to convene our people to stand up for our human rights. It couldn’t be a political party. It had to be a place that was open to everybody and that was safe [01:37:00] and -- JJ: So mass-based -- LA: -- welcoming. JJ: -- meaning everybody, open to the community? LA: Welcome to the community with certain principles, of course, but not so ideologically determined that it would basically chase people away even before they got to know and engage in El Puente. And particularly focus on young people, why? Because 12 months before I opened up El Puente. In a period 50 �from 1979 to 1980 -- I opened up El Puente up in 1982 -- we had lost 48 young people in a section of Williamsburg. Some 30,000 to 32,000 people, one square mile called the Southside, Los Sures, very famous. This was El Barrio, the most -- the community with the census tract [01:38:00] in all of New York State with the highest concentration of Latinos. It was also part of the second poorest congressional district. It was the poorest community in the city, in the state, the poorest Latino community, so... And it was also obviously the most violent because we lost 48 young people in that one square mile, virtually one every single week through gang violence. We were, as the mass media defined, as the teenage gang capital of New York City. And everybody had a show on us, Geraldo, Donahue, all the different stations talked about the Southside and the killings in the Southside, and our own community was very much afraid to walk the streets. JJ: Was this before it got gentrified or--? LA: Oh, nobody wanted to come to the Southside. This was the most concentrated Latino community, mostly Puerto Rican. Nobody wanted to come, and virtually everybody was [01:39:00] Latino, and of course, nobody ever thought that anybody would ever wanna come and live here. You know, people at any moment, if they could get away, got away. I had founded El Puente, it was the process of it, and basically realized that if I was going to be able to build a base in this community, I had to live here, and so... And the other people who worked at El Puente who volunteered, because we were all volunteers at the time, also had to live here. So I would not allow people to be working with us or volunteer 51 �with us who did not live here, so I bought my own house here. Now, my mortgage was 200 dollars a month; it was virtually nothing. I didn’t have a credit card, so I borrowed some money from a friend for the closing cost and basically got [01:40:00] the house for nothing. And that’s the way it was because people -and even the woman who sold to me, I told her, “Listen, things are gonna change, if you want, I’ll just rent here if you have second thoughts about giving up the house,” she said, “Oh no, no, I’ve been dying for this and I’m so glad you came along and I know you mean well, but nothing’s gonna change.” And I told her, I said, “You know --” but she insisted, she was so happy to leave, so, and for good reason. I came home one night, there was a dead body that shoot up, and just before I arrived, the police were just arriving right. One week, I remember the very famous week that I had guns pointed at me by both the police and some gang kids, so in two different incidences. So it was a very difficult place, so we knew that we had to create a space that was a neutral zone in terms of the gangs. [I had to?] get agreement where [01:41:00] their younger siblings could come, and they would be safe, and that’s how we began. But when they got here, I would explain to them that this was about a movement and that what we wanted -- yes, we wanted them to learn how to do breakdancing and all the different other activities I would get volunteers to do, and then eventually, I got some money and actually could pay people. But the whole point was to promote peace and justice, and that we had to be those people to stand up for our communities to stop the injustice that was going on. So out of this came the Toxic Avengers of El Puente, the first Latino environmental group in the city, 52 �[Mash?] Ministry, a health group, all kinds of groups. The El Puente Dance Ensemble was, recall, celebrated, throughout the state and region, reviewed by the New York Times and a very professional group. In fact, there were only two groups allowed to perform at the United Nations [01:42:00] children’s summit before 75 heads of state, ambassadors, and wives -- (coughs) JJ: You want some water? LA: Yeah, I could (inaudible). And it was El Puente and another group called [Sounds of Nature?], a very good group, but we were the only two groups, so that gives you a sense of the quality of the El Puente Dance Ensemble. Of course, [Dator?] El Puente was the first adolescent-aged trauma group in the country, started in 1987, still going strong. So the many, many groups that have come out of El Puente have been about peace and justice. And I got this from both my Catholic Social Action and, in particular, the Young Christian Worker movement. (Spanish) [01:42:57] gave rise to liberation theology [01:43:00] in Latin America and union struggles, and we were part of it here, in our church here in Transfiguration Church. And that’s where I met what would be eventually the cofounders of El Puente, people I went to, “Listen, let’s do this,” and who said, “Yeah, we’re down with you.” And like Frances, who’s the executive director today, she was the first one to -- she had started the Williamsburg Arts & Culture Council for Youth, so she was doing dance classes. She was a professional dancer who was home healing from an accident and, in the meantime, actually teaching young people about modern dance. Thought she was gonna go back to it. And her brother, who was a fine artist, and taught -- 53 �JJ: Who’s her brother? LA: Frank Lucerna, yeah, it’s either the Frances or Frank, kind of runs in the family, you know, is the way I -- you know, so... [01:44:00] And Gino Maldonado, who was one of the four incorporators, along with me and Father Steve and Judy Agostini in terms of state charter, who’s been with El Puente from day one and now is the chief of operations after 30 years of doing this. So it was a coming together of the Young Christian Worker movement and the Young Lords in a way that could be very appealing to everybody. We call them the 12 principles. Four cornerstones of those 12 principles are holism. That our approach was not gonna be categorical in terms of one part of the human person or the other, but that we were gonna relate to each other as whole human beings. [01:45:00] A very novel notion in 1982, by the way, holism. When I would speak of holism, people thought I was talking about brown rice or acupuncture or something, you know, something mysterious. And no, I was talkin’ with them about how we should approach ourselves, how should we connect with ourselves. And focus on development, not on some disease, human development, our development, our development as neighbors, as human beings, and a community. And the second most important cardinal principle for us... Well, we have 12 principles, so let me... Holism was a part of an approach. So we break up the 12 principles into beliefs, tools, and goals, right? So lemme just talk about the goals because I was going more into the belief system. So the goals are, [01:46:00] number one, creating community. We need to promote in every member of El Puente that their first responsibility always is to create community wherever they are, whether 54 �they are in prison or outside of this present community. Wherever they are, where they find themselves, their job as human beings is to create community. And the second one, the second cardinal principle is really a corollary of that, and that is to love and care for each other. So loving and caring, the second cardinal principle. The third one is mastery. That we are about excellence in everything that we do. It’s not about getting by, so it’s about really honing our skills, whatever we do, you know. Our relationships have to be the most loving, our learning has to be the most excellent, our applications the best. [01:47:00] Our community and this world is rather oppressed, so it’s our obligation to be masterful in our approach to change it. And the last one is peace and justice. That what we stand for and that the most important thing in terms of creating community and loving and caring for each other and being masterful is to promote peace and justice. JJ: Yeah, can you say something about Boston when you worked there? LA: Okay, so... JJ: Just because that’s the difference. LA: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so let me just -- you know, just so you have it on the history -finish with El Puente. So 30 years later, we are seven sites. We’re the first public high school for human rights in America. Actually, PBS did a survey of 52 countries and declared on primetime, on national television that the El Puente [01:48:00] Academy for Peace and Justice was the only public school in that – in our case high school, for human rights in the world. We thought we were the only one in the city, but then the state department let us know we were the only 55 �ones in the country, and PBS declared that we were the only ones in the world. Now, we opened up in 1993, so that was some 11 years later since the founding of El Puente as a whole. We are a community health and environment institute. We were able to stop the development of a 55-story incinerator that was already legislated in the city by the New York City Council by, four years later, getting the governor to basically sign into law a measure for bidding incineration, so basically, doing away with that vote of the city council. And been doing all kinds of stuff around environmental justice ever since, including last year launching [01:49:00] a 10-year initiative, which we call the Green Light District, to transform this one square mile called the Southside of Williamsburg, by knocking on everyone’s door, engaging everybody we can, block by block, to transform ourselves into a community at the highest level of community health and environmental wellness. Doing wellness assessments, looking at our physical, our emotional, our political, our environmental, our artistic, and cultural wellbeing, and then coming up with action plans, engaging everybody. Because you’re right, we’ve suffered gentrification, and a lot of our community, even though we’re still slightly the majority in the core aspect of the Southside, we won’t hold on to that for long. The important thing is for those of us who are here to stay here and to believe that we have a future here. And of course when you wake up one day [01:50:00] and all the bodegas are gone, and instead you have very nice French bistros and bagel stores and all kinds of other things. I’m not saying anything against them, right, but they’re not our bodegas, and they’re not our restaurants, and you, kind of, feel like it’s gone. And you’re not hearing salsa 56 �music at every street as we do in the summer, and you’re not seeing all the people playing dominoes everywhere as we used to, and what you mostly hear is some rock music. You begin to think it’s all over, and that all that’s left is for you to move, and we’re saying no, we’re staying here. So, in fact, we’re committing ourselves a green light to move forward, and so that’s what we’re doing. And thus the Green Light District involve five different committees and looking at greening spaces, looking at health, looking at making all the changes we need to shrink our carbon footprint in our homes and our buildings. Every aspect of our [01:51:00] life is covered by this Green Light District. And we have a fantastic garden, amazing gardeners from the so-called hipsters, white, upper- and middle-class young people who are now part of our community, to people from Bangladesh who are living among us, to, of course, Latinos, everybody. I always felt -- and I say this is kiddingly, but somewhat serious -- I think that we could have a really good comedy reality show just putting a camera on the garden because it’s so funny the kind of cultural stuff that comes up. It’s a riot. Keeps the person in charge of the garden very busy all the time. And, of course, we have our leadership centers. So we have three leadership centers in Williamsburg and one in Bushwick [01:52:00] where young people and two of them, adults, become -- are members of El Puente. We have two that are mostly adolescent, but two that are everybody from 6 years old to 60 and beyond. So we have all of these activities going on. And for some people with the most -and we are the most comprehensive Latino center for art and Culture; we have 29 artists on staff. For others, we’re the community health and environment 57 �institute, and all they hear about is the environmental justice work and stuff like that. And still for others, we’re the pioneers in educational reform, in the small school movement, in the social justice movement. Remember, there are no schools in social justice until we started one. Now, there are also kinds of schools for social justice. I remember the Albizo Campos School coming up from Chicago, and of course, they’re a private school, but we’re a public school. And until they really [01:53:00] brought it up, I said, I always know in the back of my mind that we’re good at infiltrating the system, you know, but they really brought it to witness it. They, “This is a public school,” and I said, “Yeah.” “They let you have these images and do this work, and you have Che Guevara everywhere, and you have all this stuff and...?” I said, “Yeah, of course.” “It’s a public school?” (laughter) I said, “Yes, it’s a public school.” So I think that brought it home to us how lucky we were actually in having a great chancellor, Joe Fernandez who believed in us and thought that we could create a great school, and I think we’ve lived up to it. We’re virtually A+ rated every year. Our young people... JJ: Isn’t that [Joe?] Fernandez from Lehman College, isn’t it? LA: I think he went to Lehman, I’m not sure. JJ: No, this guy was the president. LA: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. [01:54:00] No, he didn’t go to Lehman, no, not the same. That’s right, not Joe. JJ: I don’t (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) 58 �LA: Joe actually is a New Yorker, joined the service. I think he got a GED, I’m not sure, I’m sure that’s how he started, you know, but eventually he became the -he became --he’s -- he became rather famous nationally as the head of the Dade County Public School System, and then he came to New York, a good guy. And he started this movement to create small schools, and he would allow these small schools to partner with the department of education if they had a good idea. These small groups, well, most of them were academicians, okay, universities, colleges, and stuff, and there were three of us that he accepted that were very different. One was the union, 1199, so they were allowed to start a school. One was a church, the Abyssinian Baptist Church, Powell’s old church, right, and [01:55:00] the other one was El Puente that was known more for taking over school buildings (laughter) than for, you know, creating them. And he believed in us, so, of course, everybody else didn’t, and they thought we would just implode in a year. And we wind up being a shining example of what is possible when you really want to do it. Of course, our secret weapon was Frances Lucerna, she was the founding principal, she moved the entire thing. Frances, who’s the executive director today, basically, we asked her, and she did it. She put the development team together, and she created a masterful school. JJ: Okay, if you wanna end, any final thoughts or any --? LA: I think you had asked me about Boston. Boston was -- look, I was part of the health and education ministry, as I said before, and mostly the health ministry, right, [01:56:00] the health part of that. And my daughter was very asthmatic, so I spent a lot of my time outside of Young Lords’ activities because I was in the 59 �hospital. She was given the last rites three times, so never expected to live. Thank God for steroids, which were experimental at the time, that saved her life one particular moment when she had almost expired. So, at that point, I had to take a leave absence. Juan talked to me, he says, “You can’t keep this up,” I said, “Okay.” But in that process, I had connected in my work with the Medical Committee for Human Rights, which was the activist group of doctors, and they had a student wing, and so... And I always had this dream from the seminary of becoming a doctor, of working in that area, so one thing [01:57:00] led to another, and I found myself really thinking. I mean I spent all this time in the hospitals really thinking about going to medical school but had no idea on how to do it. Never had seen a Puerto Rican doctor. And so I hooked up with this guy who was a part of the student wing of the Medical Committee for Human Rights, and he said, “You know what, you should apply for Harvard because only these big schools have the kind of money that can support you, and I think it’s possible.” And I said, “And they never had a Puerto Rican, a Puerto Rican, Dominican,” so, I said, “Okay,” and I applied. Now, it turns out that not only did they not have a Puerto Rican, they never had more than two African American students for their four-year program since the start of Harvard Medical School. And at any time since the beginning of that school -- and it’s the oldest medical school in the country -- would you ever find more than two Black people in the building until Martin [01:58:00] Luther King was assassinated. Then the faculty got together, and people started looking at themselves, started realizing that they were part of the same white supremacy structure that had brought upon the 60 �death of one of the most incredible leaders America ever had, and they decided to do something. So, of course, the more liberal, progressive side of that faculty wanted to make sure that we would include, in our admissions, people of color, and eventually, there was a compromise. That, yes, they would admit people of color, but not at the risk of giving up any white seat. So they expanded the class for the first time to include 22 African American young people, 1 Puerto Rican, Dominican, I think there were 3 Mexican Americans, 1 Native American. [01:59:00] I think that was it, and that’s how I got in, you know. JJ: Okay, any other last thought? LA: Oh, this is so much. (laughter) You’re making me think maybe I should write some of this. JJ: Look (inaudible) – END OF VIDEO FILE 61 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a779f73f74eab82cfdaf2def8254b0d5.mp4 da7e1d0eb53e5299a537949b76ff36bd Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Título Spanish language Title entry Luis Acosta vídeo entrevista y biografía Descripción Spanish language Description entry La historia oral de Luis Acosta, entrevistado por Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez el 10/25/2012 acerca de los Young Lords en Lincoln Park. Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexicano-Americanos--Relatos personales Justicia social Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago Mexico-Americanos--Illinois--Chicago--Condiciones sociales Relaciones raciales Conflicto social Identitad cultural Partido Pantera Negra. Illinois Capí­tulo Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Acosta_Luis Title A name given to the resource Luis Acosta video interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Acosta, Luis Description An account of the resource Oral history of Luis Acosta, interviewed by Jose “Cha-Cha” Jimenez on October 25, 2012 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. In the video, a Latino man in a dark sweater sits in front of a bookshelf facing the camera, while speaking to the interviewer who is off camera. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jimenez, Jose, 1948- (interviewer) Audio Transcription Center (transcriber) Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexican Americans--Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Mexican Americans--Illinois--Chicago--Social conditions Race relations Social conflict Cultural identity Black Panther Party. Illinois Chapter Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-10-25 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/048612c846fd483c1dd454599f83e5f2.mp4 87974356147a5e1ddd2c88b8072fdaeb https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1c88fe6418709defa015a9db22cf2f4e.pdf df3fddc5e18129de56b6e874d3d6cf82 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] SA: I flew for Eastern Airlines for a while, got out of that and I was doing - there were a hundred things to do up there. I told you I went to the University of South Carolina. I had a pretty good athletic background. The thing that really got me interested in flying was an engineer I was working with on the roads. I had one of those easy, so-so jobs, $100 a month which was a lot of money in those days. But this guy says, "You know I have this book here you might want to read," and I says, "Sure". That was a book about the early days of World War I, by Elliot Springs who later became a [?]. People kept asking me one after the other. I said one time, I said to this engineer, I said, "I read this book and I've contacted a friend of mine who has gone through this things, and he said it's a real tough deal to get into flying these days because there's no money and this is the words depression we've ever had, and all that stuff, and I just happened to get in, and to get in wasn't just a simple thing. You had to go to your Congressman, write to so and so and so and so, and I did all this and the guy in – I joined a bunch of other people about ten people down at Montgomery Alabama for a test, final test, examination and if you passed that, they had some pretty good … So I …you don't mind me saying "hell" do you? Sure enough, I was two of the ten who got through - I was on my way then. I had a friend who owned the [?] and he was a fine person, lived in a little, small town, his son was going to Tulane and he said, "Skipper, I know you from way back and you're the kind of guy that will go to a dance and get drunk and everything else and teach Sunday School next morning. If you pass this thing, come on down to New Orleans and we'll help you celebrate and he'd pay the bill. And he did, and I did. And that was a great idea - and Mardi Gras, that was really something, something fine, and for a man who likes to eat as much as I do, and occasionally drink - but I thought it was a good idea, and I got in. [?] …it wasn't easy in those days, but I got in. And the first thing you know, the Commandant, pulled out a long list of names, A-A-A, obviously he's going to start with 1 �the names [?] this little fellow was - I've forgotten his name but he was ahead of me …all right Mr. so-and-so, you're designated. He started hemming and hawing and said, "I can't do that and do this", and he went down the second name, "Skip Adair, Brian Adair, are you willing to accept the responsibility in this, you'll be the top dog in this whole class?" I said, "Yes sir" because I never turn down an opportunity to prove myself, and that's what it amounted to, I understand. I was looking at the best line instructor in the air force to teach me. He did a good job of teaching. FB: Once you followed through with that… SA: What do you want to put in the year book? I said, "Travel" because that's what I wanted to do, and I said "Okay". What was the original thing we were talking about, I've forgotten. FB: After you were finished up, you were training under one of the best trainers in the air corps. What happened after that? I got through class, two of them, and after graduation, I was sent to this place in Virginia - Chesapeake Bay, a fine place to start out for a young officer. I did that and Chennault came by one day and he just came in - he was visiting. I didn't know him from anything, and he had a couple of friends - that I had - joint friends with him. He said, "Come on Skip, we're going out on Chesapeake on my boat, and Chennault's coming along too." So we did, and that's the only time I met him so I doubt very much whether he'd remember meeting me. But things were different when we got into China, very different. For some reason he seemed to take a … he said, "This is the kind of guy I want to do this and that and the other". He never told me about it, we'd go hunting together, shoot those …drink bourbon, not to any excess but we did. That was pretty good, good deal. What else do you want? SA: FB: When did you - the first time that you went to the Gulf? SA: [?] Stratton, a good friend of mine from Texas, the classmate of mine, I wrote him a letter that I would like to come out there - they don't have a job at the moment and what do you think? He wrote back immediately and said, "Yes, you'll be perfect for this job." So, we'll send $1,000 check from the Bank of China for this thing and you just come on out here when you want to. So I went. 2 �FB: What were they asking you to do? What were your duties to be for this $1,000? What were you supposed to do? SA: Teach the Chinese, as simple as that, that was the only thing. Not a fighting deal or anything like that, that's all it was. What else? FB: Why did you want to go to China to begin with? SA: Because I got $500 a month. Was that a good reason? In a time when I never made more than $100 a month. Okay? FB: What did you know about China at that time? SA: What did I know about it? What I learned in school and studying. I'm pretty good on geology and geography. I had no particular preparation for it. I couldn't speak Chinese, nobody could. We all had to use interpreters. FB: Where did you go in China? Where were you actually stationed to teach these Chinese? SA: Kunming, Kunming was the first place I went to. They sent me up to a little place called Yunanyi and they had about six Americans there. Some of them had been there two years. I'd been there ten days before Chennault flew up from Kunming to Yunanyi and said, "Skip, the Chinese want you to be the boss of this outfit," I didn't know whether that was true or not - whether he wanted me to do it, I don't know. He said, "Are you willing to take it? It won't be any more money." I said, "Yes sir". I'm the kind of guy that - I've always done that - opportunity to take responsibility, I took it. In this case, it worked out pretty good. FB: What did you find at first in Kunming and then later on? What was the state of the Chinese Air force at that time? SA: Practically non-existent. We had one outfit with about ten bombers in it. They had a long history of being taught by Russians and by the Germans and one thing and another, but Chennault went over there about first two years before I did, and he was unbeatable in a fighter plane, he shot down half a dozen of those things - just like shooting ducks in a pond or something. What he was doing was running an outfit and improve the character 3 �of the Chinese pilots. We were not supposed to teach Chinese students, instruct and check on them, and be sure they were worth having, which is what we did. So that was that. Now what? FB: The Chinese Air Force at that time, what kind of airplanes were you training in? What were the facilities like? SA: Very obsolete planes, one seaters, as a matter of fact, the same type of plane that some of the classmates of mine flew. I didn't ever fly them except as occasionally out of interest. What I had was the best planes, newest ones, and I was taught in that. We were the subject of a lot of derision by other students, who said, "You've got it easy! You're pushbutton pilots. That kind of stuff. Well, that's baloney. But I did get to fly the best planes they had at that time. FB: Had you decided to ask your wife to come out to China, or was that later? SA: A lot of pilots had wives out there already and I said, well, I may as well have too, so I go to Chennault and he says, "Yes, go ahead, bring her out". Well, she came out - and out of Hong Kong, and one of my friends, Madam Chiang, - personal airplane, - she flew in from one place into Kunming up to the place where I was. By the way [?] which was the first and most lovely home and nobody in China had a home like that, the rest of them were just junk. You'd pull out the gun and shoot rats off the rafters and things like that. This was a good place and my wife was flown up in this beautiful C43 by an American pilot with the permission of Chiang Kai Shek, isn't that so? Anything else you want to know? FB: We're going to change the tape now… 4 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Skip_1991-06-06_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Claude Bryant "Skip" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Skip Adair interview (video and transcript, 1 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Skip Adair trained as a pilot and was recruited by Col. Claire Lee Chennault in 1938 to serve as an instructor for the Chinese Air Force. During the months leading to the formation of the AVG, he toured Army Air Corps bases recruiting pilots and ground personnel in secrecy for the AVG. As part of the AVG Headquarters Staff, Adair acted as the Operations and Supply Group Executive Officer. In this tape, Adair discusses his background before becoming involved with the American Volunteer Group and his first meeting with Claire Chennault in Chesapeake Bay. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1512ee98c41af140741c3444d053fa5f.mp4 19f645a4bd9bf113c640644559fb0b0f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e7abf957ae3c9216db82932f4b7bd7d0.pdf b5007fc480f6e5de532070199ae4f55d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] FB: Did you ever witness him (Chennault) fighting the Japanese? SA: No, I never witnessed - but I've seen and read so much about him, and I knew so much as a matter of fact, he was head of the air force, fighter division, down in Montgomery and when he first went out to China, he took off and did a one man air force. According to what I've heard, I didn't see it and I didn't see it, but I know he shot down at least a half a dozen of them. But when I arrived on the scene, he said - I don't remember now - I'll tell you he - there are so many things, I'm trying to pick out the important things, the things that will be interesting to you. FB: Whatever you want to talk about is fine, but what you're talking about I think, is what we were talking about in the kitchen, when he said, "Skip do you want to fight in airplanes? SA: Yeah, that's one of the things. I asked him point blank what that was - "Are you and I are going to fight in this war," and he said, "No, nobody, not you or I either. We've got our own jobs and somebody's got to run this outfit." The implication was that either one of us got hurt, it would be a blow, which it would be. FB: Let's go back to the early days in Kunming in China, can you tell us about your observations of the Japanese bombings? SA: Yeah. We'd go out and sit on a hilltop somewhere and watch them. We always had this warnings, we knew they were coming, then we'd spot them in the sky. They'd be up maybe 20,000 ft., something like that, and they'd start dropping these bombs and boy, when they hit you could see them hit, big explosions all over town and it kind of made us 1 �mad, naturally. Chennault and myself and everybody else connected with this thing wanted to see what could be done. I guess the most harrowing experience I've had was, I was up in a brand new little fighter plane, we'd just got it into China. I was trying it out, sat in it and one thing and another for half an hour. I had sense enough to come on back then, pulled the plane up and went along into town where my house was, and you know what? The Japanese came on that thing and just [?] the hell out of that airplane I'd been in just a few minutes ago. I was just lucky that I wasn't sitting - there was nothing I could do about it but hide and run. That was the closest I've ever been. FB: Why would you say the Chinese were not able to defend themselves against the Japanese? SA: That's a leading question I would prefer not to answer. FB: At this time, the Japanese had a lot of airplanes, they had a lot of investment into the military. They also had pilots that were very well trained. You were just training the instructors who then had to go out and train - it was a long process just to learn how to fight. SA: You might say that until the AVG days - we're talking about before the AVG - that's nothing, there was absolutely nothing you could do about those Japanese. They had a field day. It's simple! I can't think of anything easier. Nobody shooting at them. We had a few pilots, some outstanding fighter pilots - they were capable of doing something, but they didn't have the equipment or anything else. FB: Skip, my intention was not to give you a leading question - I'll tell you why I asked that we've already interviewed some of the Chinese that were those pilots and they basically said that there was no way of stopping them. SA: I don't remember that, but I have never known any of them to shoot one of them down. I'm sure it must have happened, but I'm not aware of it, certainly not while I was there. FB: Were you a part of the discussions with Chennault about the difficulties he was having in training the Chinese and what alternatives you had to fight against the Japanese? 2 �SA: To a certain extent. I don't think I had a great deal. He had his own ideas made up and there was nothing I could say or do to him about it. FB: When did you first hear that he was going to start up an American Volunteer Group? SA: I guess it was about the time I left China, somewhere along about that time. We knew it was going to happen, and the reason we knew it, he and I in the States had made a $50 million loan and that was the purpose of getting some airplanes. It was all a secret thing, nobody ever put in the paper or said anything. No. Everything I did was quiet and absolutely no ………I got on the boat to China, you think I said I was going over there to fight? Hell, no! I was a newspaper writer I think, yeah, that's what I was. Later on, when I was recruiting these boys, we all gave them a sign, some kind of identification. That's the way we did that - we were very quiet. So, one day, all hell broke loose as far as I'm concerned when this joker from Florida who was probably a pretty good friend of Roosevelt, Franklin D. Anyway, he was testing the wings, when he said, "This AVG is going to be …Blah, blah, blah, let the whole goddam thing go". Well, before that we had nothing, absolutely nothing. We kept it shut and quiet, the whole way, that's what we were supposed to do, otherwise the Japanese would sink every goddam boat [?]. We signed nothing. So even then I was mad at Chennault and everybody else the matter had become public, that it was going to happen. Everybody I hired, and I hired a lot of them to everyone I said, "Don't say anything about this". FB: Let's get to that point then. You returned back to the United States after training the Chinese - you decided to return to the United States - why did you then decide to go back to China? SA: I was going back I think because everybody knew the whole deal was over. When I got back - Chennault and I, besides playing a few rounds of golf on the course there, he said, "I want you to meet somebody," and I met T.V. Soong, Dr. T.V. Soong. He was the money man of [?] at that time and Mr. Chennault said, "This is Mr. Adair and we're going to use him to recruit," and he just nodded his head. That's about all there was to it. He didn't ask me any questions. Chennault wanted it. That was it. FB: What were you told to tell, or what were you looking for when you went out to recruit these various people for the AVG? What were you told to tell them and what did you actually find when you went out looking for them? 3 �SA: I wasn't so much told what to tell them, but in general I said, "We're building up a group of fighter pilots to defend the Burma Road." The Burma Road was the only lifeline, you understand that? All right, that was the whole deal. That's about it. Anything else you'd like to know about it, I'd be glad to answer it. FB: Of these men that you were going to recruit, when they came in to see you, can you give us some idea of some of the personalities of some of the people who [?] you or …? SA: That's a – of what I thought, and I had had enough experience all the way in the air force one way and another, about 5,000 miles in the air. I had all this [?] I didn't have to do anything. I didn't make up any lies or anything, I told the truth. As a matter of fact when I got back, I said, "One of these guys told me, he surprised me, he said, "You're a soft sell". I don't know if I was a soft sell or not but I got two or three hundred people, and I got a few bums in there, but most of them were good. Anything else? FB: Once you had done the recruiting, give us an idea of how you went from base to base looking for - you were travelling across the country looking for people? SA: Yeah - a list, and bases, eight or nine air force bases, and most of them had P-40's or something like that they trained on. I was given a letter identifying me, a very simple thing. "This will introduce Mr. C.B. Adair who will explain the nature of his business." That doesn't say much does it, but that's exactly the way it was. So I went. A lot of these guys that walked into the base were classmates of mine. They all said, "I'm not gonna let this guy go." I said, "You have nothing to say about it." He picked up the telephone and "call Personnel right now if you want to." Some of them did call. I was given the freewheel to go ahead, they didn't cooperate and get a group of them together - I talked to the group. I didn't go one by one or anything like that. I had a long list of requirements Chennault had put up. He wanted a [?] of the so-and-so, all different mechanics. Different phases of it he would go through and spell it out, how much they would get in salary. I didn't much like that but I was innocent more than the pilots. FB: In terms of the pilots themselves, you were looking specifically for pilots that had P-40 experience, is that correct? SA: Yeah. 4 �FB: What did you actually find in terms of pilots? SA: Some of them had P-40 experience and some of them didn't. When I got down to San Antonio when this R.T. Smith and P.J. Green - they were there - they had never been in a fighter plane in their life. They knew what the hell it was all about, they were the kind of guy that I wanted, and I hired them. You know something? They're both aces. You know what an ace is? Five or more. 5 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Skip_1991-06-06_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Claude Bryant "Skip" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Skip Adair interview (video and transcript, 2 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Skip Adair trained as a pilot and was recruited by Col. Claire Lee Chennault in 1938 to serve as an instructor for the Chinese Air Force. During the months leading to the formation of the AVG, he toured Army Air Corps bases recruiting pilots and ground personnel in secrecy for the AVG. As part of the AVG Headquarters Staff, Adair acted as the Operations and Supply Group Executive Officer. In this tape, Adair describes the early days working with General Chennault in Kunming, China and the early discussions of the American Volunteer Group and their recruitment efforts. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1d62b95fb0fd3ac5f68505115be35ee6.mp4 4849d5010c18ea8bed33885f423d6604 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/eb0178f6bdd9d4b2a0c34c3d92c983b9.pdf 1d4010a295bcc84361fb9159831fcc7c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] SA: … maybe someone in administration, Franklin D. Roosevelt, he was a man of his own, he knew what he wanted to do, I'd never make any criticism of him, but guys like the Senator who shoots his mouth off, nobody else did. He might have for some reason in administration wanted to have affirmation to get out, but he leaped out, isn't that what they say? What it was, it was a bad deal for us and them. He was later, can't remember the gentlemen's name, but he was lot's older than I am, and I'm old enough. He just was told to do it - I think that's what happened. But he would never say that, he says, "Do it as a [?].” I know so much about it – this is going to happen – he would never have been fool enough to do that. So I think that's what it was, the way it was. They didn't want all of a sudden this thing to fall on them like a ton of bricks. You know what I mean? That's the way it was, exactly. FB: Once you had completed the recruitment process, what was the next thing that was asked of you? What was the next thing that you did? SA: To be frank I got in one of these airplanes that land on water, Pan American [?]. I got on one - incidentally, I had a card I could fly anywhere I wanted. I went to Hawaii. Gave myself another ten days’ vacation [?] "I'm gonna do it, nobody else can ever - I'm could stay there a month if I wanted to. But I did see a lot of my classmates out there, in the air force. They were concerned, they knew that the Japanese were getting - and I did too. I said, "Jesus, you'd better watch 'em because…" I didn't predict that Pearl Harbor, but that's what happened. I stayed there and this friend of mine took me all over the island, which is a good thing. Then I got back on the Pan American Clipper - that's what it was they take off and land on water. You've seen them I'm sure. I flew all the way in the Hong Kong area. 1 �FB: At this time of the organization, were there ships going over to take them over? Did you get involved in that at all? SA: I had nothing to do with that. CAMCO, which is the Central American Manufacturing Co., run by the Pawley brothers, there were two or three of them and they did a good job of doing what they were supposed to do. Chennault never got along with them very well. I got along with them a lot better than Chennault did. Pawley, Gene Pawley was a good friend of mine. I was walking down the street in Times Square and bumped into him and he said, "Let's have a drink." We were that way and I used his office which was up there in the RCA building - I think it was about the 70th floor, it was way up there I can tell you that. I'd never do all the paperwork for him, I'd send it in to this and that and so and so and so. FB: Once you had completed the recruitment process, what was your next duty? What else did you do for the AVG? SA: I got to Rangoon which was the place where we started. Above Rangoon about 120 miles was a little British airport that the British weren't using. We got permission to use it as a training center, which we did. What else do you want to know about it? FB: What was the next responsibility? You'd finished with the recruitment part, now what did you do for the AVG? What was the next step? SA: The next thing? Just about what I told you, except for the time before. Chennault and I were just like this. I didn't have to ask him a damn thing, I just went on and did it, and so forth and so on. Only upsetting thing about the whole process as far as I was concerned was, I got malaria. Now malaria over there is a killing process. It was a good thing we had a couple of nurses, two females and another male, a doctor and everything else and they were using the finest things in the world on me. I was 104 temperature. They put me on a slab, bald naked and ice all over me. These nurses all got very familiar with me. They didn't really think much of me because I'd [?] One morning, while I was there, still in the hospital, Chennault came by - he usually came by in the morning to tell me what was going on [?] I said, "What's new this morning?" He says, "Nothing much. The Japs have bombed Pearl Harbor. They're next door to us and they could be here in another twenty minutes." I said, "Nurse, bring my pants." That's exactly what I said. So, I got 2 �the hell out of there and he said, "I want you go on up, when you get the chance -after you get through - send these people and all these spare parts, motors and everything else we've got to go. I didn't go with the experts. I had a little guy that was a supply clerk, and I says, "Listen, you have a responsibility. You've got ten trucks, new trucks, and millions of dollars’ worth of things. You know who's going to be responsible for it, who's running that thing? You! That usually set him up and they did it, like I did a lot of things. So that's the way it was. We've got to give them credit for moving more material in the fastest time than anybody else - it had been routine army joke that it "had taken forever", but they didn't do it that way. He just said, "You, that's your job and you're not taking off tomorrow, you're taking off today." FB: That leads me to another question. What would you say were the differences between the way the military did things and the way the AVG did things? SA: A big difference - based on the same thing, but I would say we had more freedom, we could do it if we wanted to. We didn't have to go right down the line and do everything one, two, three and so forth. We could use our own discretion and do things like that. The army could never do that. They'd take a month to get ready, and we'd be already up there. Did that get through you? FB: Part of the energy process - sometimes we have to ask you - but the part that you talked about when you had malaria, and you were laid out and Chennault came in to tell you about Pearl Harbor? Could we have you repeat that again? If you could start with the fact that you got down with malaria and they had to lay you out on the ice and then Chennault came in as he usually did and then …? SA: While I was in the hospital, we had a good medical staff of our own. I'd had nothing to do with hiring them, Chennault did most of that. There was a doctor and nurses and they were very good. They kept me alive because that type of malaria they had over in Burma, that was a killer. Our doctors had as good a knowledge of it as anybody, better than most. I didn't have no trouble out there. I got out, and that's it. After sending a few more people up, we had a little transport [?] by ten people, two engine airplane, I'd flow in one a lot of times. We just moved on up to Chunking with that. These pilots had been trained down there in this place, and they had done a pretty good job of doing it. They had to land on real short runways, some of them were busted up. But in general, they were pretty good. We saw three organizations, squadrons, many [?]. 3 �FB: Could we get back to …? SA: He never was kicked out, he [?] or nothing, he didn't get that way, he wasn't that kind of a guy. He said, "How are you feeling"? I said, "I'm feeling better, I'd better get out of here." He said, "I hope so, I want you to go on up to Kunming because the Japanese have done just what I said - bombed Pearl Harbor." And what's the name of that little kingdom - the Japanese could go anywhere they wanted to go - they were there. And that's about it. I got out and never had any recurrence of that thing, malaria. FB: How long did you stay in Burma? You went almost immediately to Kunming, didn't you? SA: I don't know how long, but it wasn't a short period of time, it was a matter of a month or so. FB: So you were there during the training period? SA: Yeah, that's right. It doesn't sound like much, but that's exactly what it was. Do you know what "supplies" meant? Everything! They couldn't move without it - can't do anything. So, I hated the darn thing. I told him "I don't know a damn thing about supplies, and you know it." It doesn't take that kind of a thing, it takes someone with a few brains to do it, to take advantage of opportunities, and go ahead and do it with limited facilities." Got it? FB: Could you tell us a little bit more about what the supply situation was like. What kind of problems did you run into? What did you have to do? SA: The guy, as I told you, was a tough man. He walked into the room and you wanted to walk out the other side, because he had a body odor that'd kill you. But he was the best I had. You couldn't tell him to go back to the United States and send over somebody else like that. So, you've got to go. I had about three or four others, we had clerks who had probably more experience in supplies that I had, but I couldn't have gotten to where I was in the air force without knowing a lot about supplies. Does that answer your question? FB: What we're looking for is - as if we know nothing about this. I know the supply situation was very difficult, that you were running out of supplies, it was a constant problem. 4 �SA: We didn't have any corner drug-store or anything like that. FB: This is what we need on camera. We need to know what kind of problems you ran into and what the supplies situation was like. SA: I'd pick a telephone and I'd call Rangoon - I'm way up there about 120 miles away, and I say, "Send down a box, we just lost another pilot," or something like that. I had to do things like that all the time. I'd use the telephone, and who would I call? CAMCO. A lot of people don't know anything about CAMCO, but they were pretty important. 5 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Skip_1991-06-06_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Claude Bryant "Skip" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Skip Adair interview (video and transcript, 3 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Skip Adair trained as a pilot and was recruited by Col. Claire Lee Chennault in 1938 to serve as an instructor for the Chinese Air Force. During the months leading to the formation of the AVG, he toured Army Air Corps bases recruiting pilots and ground personnel in secrecy for the AVG. As part of the AVG Headquarters Staff, Adair acted as the Operations and Supply Group Executive Officer. In this tape, Adair discusses hearing the news of Pearl Harbor while being treated for malaria, in addition to the supply situation during the training period in Kunming. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f6d59698cb93f6a01e27ebcb6e3e32e7.mp4 744bdee38daafbf216237eae1a1dad47 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/84b13ce4f8f02d0e9e5a25f29187f9e9.pdf cb76b13ce4185f1598c7b9f97e784a22 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] FB: Can you give us an idea of what it took to get equipment, and to get it to the crews? SA: I'm going to say that that was something that CAMCO did - airplanes, spare parts, they would do it. All that stuff was arriving in Rangoon, and one of the brothers - I've forgotten whether it was Gene - but we would receive these crates, a shipment. I'd open them up and - they were P-40 airplanes - we'd put them together the way it has to be done. In case you don't know, a crate comes in, it's not an airplane, they put it all together and a lot of people spend a lot of time working on it. Once it gets together, then they call somebody - maybe me - and say, "We've two or three more planes ready", so we'd send down some pilots and they'd fly them back, just like that. That was supply. We weren't in the business of buying things, but you've probably heard of a guy named Joe Alsop. He came out there and got in the organization, and we were getting to be friends. We would send him on [?] and one time when he was - some guns and some small side arms you might call them. He went all the way to the Philippines and bought a bunch of them and came back. Another trip he was out there getting something like that for us, is when the Japanese folded up Hong Kong, and so what he had to do was claim he was a pilot at the embassy, not a part of AVG, his life wouldn't have been worth a nickel if he was that way. You understand that? Well, that happened. Joe Alsop was later friends later on after the war in Tex Hill, and I used to go up to that place and have dinner. He'd apologize because he didn't have so much money, but all these people would bring him delicious fish and stuff like that, and he'd say, "I apologize for the fish," but it was real good stuff. That's the way Joe Alsop was. 1 �FB: It was once stated that you and Chennault had a conversation in which they said he'd never last 15 days - that the AVG would never last 15 days without parts. Do you remember that conversation? SA: Uh, Uh. But it could be very true. I'm not part of that, but anybody that knew anything about military, knows damn well that supply is - without it, you're dead. Even though I thought, "To hell with it," I didn't want the damn job, but it seems it hounded me later on. [?] said, "That's the only job I've got open, supply". I said, I don't know a damn thing about it but I'll take it. That's about the way you learn. FB: We need you to give us your personal opinion, your personal observations about some of the people that were in the AVG. We have a pretty good idea about the pilots, the mechanics, but none of them knew the staff. You're the only one we've been able to talk to that actually had real contact with the staff. So I'll just ask you a few questions about people, and if you could just comment on those people. Chennault had an interpreter the whole time he was out there named P.Y. Shu. Did you ever have any contact with him or do you have any …? SA: I just freewheeled, just as I … I'm 82 years, I don't remember things like I used to, hells bells! But these Chinese were indispensable, as interpreters and otherwise. I'll tell you one thing, these Chinese people - I don't know how to put it but they'd do the best they can with what they've got, but you can't stack them up against Americans who were educated, and that's the truth, no way. I had lots of things that astound me. I'm just like you or anybody else. You know what? This Tiananmen Square, where all the massacres of students took place? I don't know whether it took place or not but that's beside the point. In China, you can't come out and say offhand that somebody's bad, somebody's good - you can't do it. FB: Let's talk about some of the people on the staff. SA: Williams - that's a good one to start with. Williams was a [?] officer, and I had problems with him. One time, we moved out from Kunming? up to Chung King, and as much as we may dislike it, we had no niggers in this outfit, that's one thing, and another thing what the hell did I start to talk about? FB: Williams. 2 �SA: He was a radio man, he was very important to us because he set up this bunch of radio stations and early warning things - it was very [?] but we had to have it. You couldn't sit on the ground and wait for them to [?] you had to know they were coming - did it by airplane communications. We did it that way. We didn't take anything from him, he was never an officer. Our system was based on what the navy had. We had different bars, different dining rooms. You might say, how can you be so snooty. Chennault set it up that way originally and I had to carry it out, and I didn't like it that way but I did it. For example, we moved up to Kunming and I sent Williams ahead to prepare, to do certain things before I came up and the rest of it. I got up there and I got so goddam mad, I went and blew my top. He had set everything all together, strewn everything out the window, and that wasn't the way we operated. His mentality and the way he went - he said he couldn't see anything different about it, but goddam it, I could and everybody else could I gave him hell and immediately changed it myself, but he called me a "son of a bitch" and everything else. I didn't give a damn. He goofed and he didn't ask anybody for information, he'd just go ahead and do it that way. Now Williams, I like, he's older than I am, but that doesn't mean he was in the AVG so long. I don't know where the hell he was before that but all I know is, he's older. And the one reason I know he's older, one day I was talking about someone - how old I was - and he say, "I'm older than you," I says, "You are?" It surprised me, but he was. But Williams was a tremendous person. It just so happened he never was an officer, and we had so damn many good'uns - crew chiefs and [?] personnel - no use laboring the point, but in this case - I could have gone along with it, with the same damn thing, you see. But it was absolutely - didn't jibe at all with what we'd set up. FB: How about Harvey Greenlaw? SA: He was a no-no. I don't know why Chennault ever brought him over there but he was an old friend of his. He hadn't been in the army or anything else as far as I know, but he was supposed to know China, but he didn't know much. He had a wife who didn't know much either, so I heard. FB: Can you comment any further about his duties or what she was supposed to be doing? SA: He didn't do much of anything. They got credit for that [?] but he wasn't. 3 �FB: How about Boatner Carney? SA: He left for the [?] Another thing, Chennault always told me, if you want to get rid of somebody, you do it. Well, I had to, I said to him "That's a tough job but one of the things I have to do." [?] FB: Can you comment on that - on reasons why some of the AVG were fired, or any in particular that you remember? SA: I was having lunch with some friends of mine - I don't want to say friends, maybe officers - a Chinese waitress came up and said, "Somebody at the door wants to speak to Mr. so-and-so. Mr. so-and-so was one of our pilots, a good pilot, but he'd had an operation, a double hernia, so we'd taken him off until he'd gotten over that and somebody - I didn't do it, but I guess somebody had sent him to inspect the barracks, so to speak and look for drugs and things like that. He went round and he must have upset somebody but they came - two of them - big s.o.b.'s - big boys - and this pilot went back to the door to find out what they wanted, and they started pounding on him right and left, and boy, you're talking about somebody getting mad. I let them both have it! Right and left! I let them know I was there. I didn't knock them out but they were so goddarned [?] that I couldn't do a damn thing else. My reputation was made! They went, "Christ, that Skip can really do it"! But I'm not the kind of a guy that can sit aside and watch somebody be slaughtered. Are you? What else? FB: You were talking in the kitchen about the incident in which Boyington, Pappy Boyington. SA: Pappy! Chennault hired him, he can't blame that on me, I didn't hire him, but Chennault did. It was a mistake and he'd admit it. I like whiskey, but I'm not a drunk, [?] but this guy did. He was a good pilot but, hell, who wants a good pilot, someone who's drunk and going to taxi around and crack up some of the airplanes. That's what he did, one after another, that's a bad damn thing. He'd do that and he'd ignore it. He was supposed to be such a hotshot - I don't know how many he shot down, if any, I don't know. I'd like to repeat it, I don't care who knows it, when Madam Chiang Kai Shek was on my arm - I was escorting her and showing her what a fine set-up the Chinese had provided, the Chinese had always provided these things, we didn't do it. Things like hotels and food and whatnot, [?] going through and there was this Boyington, goddam! I had no idea he was there or I wouldn't have took her in there, but he staggered up to - drunk himself and 4 �that's what - he had done, he had busted into the van, the liquor van and which is safer than ??? Nobody thought he would do a thing like that. I told Chennault, I said, "Listen, you probably know what happened, but this is what happened, I'd bash the hell out of - I don't see why the hell we need a guy like that around." And he said, "Skip, get rid of him." Even though he hired him. So I called him in, I says, "Boyington, you're such a nice boy, really nice, I like you, but things the way they are, we're just going to have to let you go". I let him down as easy as I could, that's the truth. He left and he went and got to Hollywood and started making films and whatnot. In my opinion, he was a no-no. 5 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Skip_1991-06-06_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Claude Bryant "Skip" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Skip Adair interview (video and transcript, 4 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Skip Adair trained as a pilot and was recruited by Col. Claire Lee Chennault in 1938 to serve as an instructor for the Chinese Air Force. During the months leading to the formation of the AVG, he toured Army Air Corps bases recruiting pilots and ground personnel in secrecy for the AVG. As part of the AVG Headquarters Staff, Adair acted as the Operations and Supply Group Executive Officer. In this tape, Adair describes the supply situation for the AVG and his personal observations of some of his fellow members including Harvey Greenlaw, Boatner Carney, and Pappy Boyington. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8417780cf02f38072ab639b010d03d98.mp4 07149302a0ac09c3838759e4b53399e3 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/36de568561fef919c189c128ea19a7ed.pdf 2b800fbf4c463a8a6ca22d3a99b6b0bb PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 5] FB: In the kitchen, you had talked about that incident where you were escorting Madam Chiang Kai Shek and then Boyington was in the - you sort of set it up in the beginning fine, and you told the ending fine, what we need to edit it in, is what you said … you hurried her past? We need a little more detail on that? SA: There was a table with a sort of [?] on it. This guy was sitting at a table but when he saw us enter the room he realized that he was in the presence of somebody important - she was certainly important, she was chief of the air force. So I just maneuvered her away from that and I didn't stop or make a comment. She probably knew exactly what was going on, just as I did. But things like that are upsetting. When the President of the United States should come down and give the one squadron outfit like we had in S. Carolina a party or something like that and you don't even bother to go? What kind of a guy are you? FB: Let's talk about somebody that you liked a lot more. Give us your impressions from your personal perspective, your impressions of Claire Chennault. SA: He was a maverick. He had infinite skill as a fighter, he knew exactly - he was perfect with the Chinese, and that was one of the smart things they did, to get him out there. That's true. I had numerous occasions to know him. As I told you, I went down to [?] way ahead of home, and he had nine children down there, and that's enough for a baseball team. He didn't ask me down there just because he liked me, a lot of people that way, he just probably wanted to tell me something, I don't know. I'm not just saying, but afterwards, after the AVG, he would come right here - he would send me a telegram saying, "I want to stop here for a few minutes, come out and see me again." We did, and 1 �left when this was going through. Another time, I was in a pretty good position and General Haynes had been good enough to give me a job on his staff, and we had a house on ??, a beautiful house, and all that stuff, and Chennault came through one day, and came in and he said, "Skip, I'm going to be here - I'd like to see you." Once the General said I could use his table to eat on. And I said, "That’s something else, something more important than that. General, some people back in New York have been badgering me over and over again, saying that I should get Chennault to come to this celebration and whatnot, so he could be the fall guy and I had this worked out - and I told Chennault, and [?] on my part because he wouldn't like it. I said to him everybody's going to be there, what are you going to have, everybody's going to be there, the mayor and - and a lot of AVG people are going to be there so we want you to show up and they'll get up and say the usual bad things about you and funny things too, and he'd just take it with a grin and let it go at that. And that's what happens. What's the name of that governor - the mayor of New York, Italian gentleman, everybody know him …………and then we got a baseball guy from - one of the [?] club. He said, "Get get a good game on this afternoon, I'll get everybody in that wants to", and [?] said, "The only problem is getting there and I'll have all the motorcycle policeman and escorts and everything else, and I was sitting next to General Haynes, in the same car with him, we were going out to the - we were going so fast and screaming, you'd think that we'd be killed ten times, it would go through everything [?]. We all got there, but I said to Haynes, "I've never been through a god dammed thing like this before, in China or any place else, because it scared the hell out of me.” FB: SA: Let's go to China again with Chennault, what was your impression of Chennault during the AVG period of time, what was your own personal observation? He was my boss, he was the best boss I've ever had. He was a guy who knew airplanes and I had a tremendous respect for him and I don't think there's anything I can say that in my opinion he was one of the finest people I've ever known. FB: If he was in the room when you walked into a room and Chennault was there, what did you see? SA: When I walked in the room - what room? FB: Any time when you walked into a room - if I was there, what would I see? 2 �SA: I don't know exactly what you mean by that? FB: Just in terms of his look. How did his looks strike you? Some people talk about his piercing black eyes, or his leather face. What was your impression? When you looked at Chennault, what did you see? SA: He was an individual and it was a hard thing for him to get anywhere in the military because as I said before, I always thought of him as a maverick. So many generals get to be generals by smoothing in this and that situation but I don't think he had an idea of going back to the United States and becoming a general. He got to be a general because Madam Chiang Kai Shek put the heat on with [?]. The regular people out there, Stilwell and his group were telling a lot of people that they don't understand this AVG, Flying Tigers and stuff, didn't understand that at all. One of them called me, waked me up in the middle of the night, one of the colonels, waked me up and got me out of bed. He said, "Have you got an airplane you can send down to rescue General so-and-so." I said, "I don't have one but there's one here. I'll tell him that you want it done and if he does, that's fine, but I can't order him, because he's an American, not an air pilot and I'm reserve officer and out of it." So that's the way it happened. And you know what? This guy got to the airplane down there and landed at dawn and General Stilwell decided, that no, he was going to walk out. He was going to walk out, that we could take the nurses he had and put them on an airplane, but he was going to walk out. That saved his neck I think. He walked out. There were a lot of things like that. FB: Did you ever meet Stilwell? SA: Yeah, I just told you. Not only that but Madam Sun Ya Tsen invited him and his aide and me and her secretary to play bridge, not once but twice. I had respect for him as a general and all that be had was not my idea of Chennault. Now Chennault and Stilwell would get together and say, period. Stilwell - Chennault, the guys in the trenches are going to win this war. Chennault - there ain't no damn trenches. That's about the way they got along. That's the truth I think. FB: How about Stilwell's aide, Bissell? SA: Bissell was just the opposite of what I said. He was an over the line military man. Nobody liked him, not particularly me. He was the kind of a guy that didn't give a damn 3 �about anybody. He would say, "I guess we've got to adhere to the line and do exactly what the army says. He couldn't really last for a minute the way we could. So why in the hell would he have to call me, a guy that wasn't even in the army, middle of the night, to bail out Stilwell from his own goddam stupidity? I don't know. I think Mrs. Stilwell must be gone too. I don't think any of my friends are still alive, not many of them. Some of those pictures you showed me - but they're younger. I took one of them - this is a good story. I think one of them came from Las Vegas and I met him in the lobby at one of those conventions we had, and I said, "I understand you've been raising horses. Come up to the room and have a drink of scotch or something, I've got some good stuff up there." He said, "Okay, we'll do that." He gets up there and he says, "Skip, when I first saw you, I thought you were as old as hell. Now I don't think so any more." Now things are different, he wasn't a kid any more either. FB: We really need to get better understanding - for the documentary … SA: You might say it was nil. When I started to do something when Chennault wasn't there, I did it - that was a staff meeting. Did I call everybody together and say, "Can I do this?" No. We didn't have staff meetings as the army and air force has them. Didn't do it, or anything. So we used the word "staff" - I've got a book here somewhere that lists all the names over everybody, what they did. But it's the best book that's ever been written. There have been a hundred or so of them written. Half of them are spurious. FB: In terms of Chennault, he had a very bad case of bronchitis, give us an idea of he would get sick, who would take over and how did he communicate with the pilots? SA: I don't think he was eve to that point. He had this throat condition but it didn't amount to anything. He never said anything about who was going to take over if he died - I don't know, I suppose I'll have to. 4 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Skip_1991-06-06_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Claude Bryant "Skip" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Skip Adair interview (video and transcript, 5 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Skip Adair trained as a pilot and was recruited by Col. Claire Lee Chennault in 1938 to serve as an instructor for the Chinese Air Force. During the months leading to the formation of the AVG, he toured Army Air Corps bases recruiting pilots and ground personnel in secrecy for the AVG. As part of the AVG Headquarters Staff, Adair acted as the Operations and Supply Group Executive Officer. In this tape, Adair discusses his impressions of General Chennault as a maverick and admirable boss, in addition to General Stilwell and General Bissell. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/635f460a791a12ac6ec75a73a9a74913.mp4 17925ae6d9930a4882ed50ecb4b5691e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/533f0d56e8890057a8ac3f95722706bb.pdf 1644e4a6671822c7d2040d95568cecd0 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 6] FB: I'd like to ask you about the bombing of Kunming and the AVG on the 20th of December fought against the Japanese and was successful, and actually the Japanese never even came back again. What was your reaction and what were you doing while that battle was going on? SA: There wasn't any big deal about what I was going to do. It was a difficult thing to pick out these Japanese as they came in. Although we were getting information on the radio they were so-and-so and at such and such a time. Also our pilots in the air found them took advantage of it and knocked down a few. We had some other places too, small places, it wasn't just Kunming - down the road - I know I was down there one time, my teeth were bothering me and - you'd never believe it - we had a dentist, Milt Wilton. He said, "You've got an impacted wisdom tooth. I can do it but it's not going to be pleasant because I don't have the proper elevators - you know what that is?" I said, "Go ahead and do it." While that was going on, the Japanese were swarming in from nowhere and we had guys like Tex Hill - as a matter of fact, it was Tex Hill and his outfit were there, and they had a battle pretty much, all over the damn place they were. I went out to see these Japanese airplanes that had come down - Tex Hill had shot them down - and Tex Hill jumped out of his airplane and walked over there to him, kicked the corpse - I think it was a corpse "Hey, you son of a bitch." He did something he didn't like, anyway, he didn't feel sorry for the guy one bit. That's what you've got to do, I think. I've never shot one down though. FB: I guess what I was looking for in the question, Skip, was - before December 20th, the AVG had never encountered the Japanese. They had been training but had never encountered the Japanese. Kunming had been bombed without - as you said before, there 1 �was no defense, so when they actually shot down those airplanes, what was the reaction from you, from Chennault? SA: That was tremendous, you can't describe it. The Chinese all were - something from heaven - they just couldn't - it was just one after another - these AVG people are just tremendous. We had a Governor out there in that province - did I ever tell you about him? Long Yuen. He put on a party for us out there [?] and all that stuff and wines of all kinds, and I had to get up and respond and do this and that - I hated it that stuff, but I still had to do it. But it was a beautiful place. The Chinese - I don't want to get into anything about what I think of them and all that, but the governors had unlimited power. You can't say "Chiang Kai Shek" - but each local governor - they're the ones that are - and of course, they all pretty much think Chiang Kai Shek is one too, but you can't on that. They never liked him at all. FB: What was your reaction and Chennault's reaction to the success? Because Chennault's name in a sense was on the line. He'd been training these guys - what was the reaction you had and what was the reaction that Chennault had to the success over Kunming? SA: I don't know about success - as you say, I can't recall any of us jumping up and down like some people seem to do. We expected it. You go to all the trouble and get the airplanes and get the equipment and get the best mechanics and the best pilots, you got to expect some good things, and it happened. Of course, we were glad. One guy - you probably never heard of Neale? You don't know? Neale was one of the squadron commanders. He's alive now - he lives up off Oregon, one of those islands up the west coast up there. Chennault made him his air commander, as he called him, because he'd shot down about 18 or 20 planes himself, tremendous. I sat next to his wife and talked to him - I never thought he liked me, I don't know why. I never did anything overtly or anything else, but I guess he just didn't express himself too much, he kept quiet.. Incidentally, can I say one more - we had loads of newspaper writers and whatnot come in there, and they would ask one question after another. "How can you tell which is the fighter and which is the ace and which is not?" And I said, "The best way is going and look in the bar and they've got the smallest little guy you could see, and the quietest guy, he's the [?], and that's about the way it was. Don't listen to his bad mouth. Am I on camera or am I not? I am. 2 �FB: What would you say the Chinese role was in the defense of Kunming? The Tigers were fighting in the air. What would you say the Chinese role was in the defense of Kunming? Did they have ground [?] over there? SA: Their role was very important. Just because we had the pilots - every airplane had a bunch of Chinese - if you looked at the airplanes, there was always one American maybe - they had three or four others - but they were tremendous. FB: What was your relationship - this is during the AVG period - how did you work with the Chinese? Were they involved in the supply at all? Were they involved with ……? SA: No, I don't think we did a damn thing with the Chinese. [?] They did a marvelous job, the Chinese, of supply us - a place to stay, the finest quarters, we took over places that had been in the past, probably, schools, houses and whatnot. We had otherwise - we had been dodging it really but [?] one thing that bugged me about our own people - they didn't realize how good this damn service they were getting was - it was nothing like as good as they were getting back home, that kind of stuff, you know. Hells bells, I think it was damn good. How do I know it? Because I had lived in China before and we were damn lucky to have any kind of thing. The only way I looked at it, was - to build it myself or have it built, pay for it, and get a beautiful woman out there to man it! FB: When did you first hear that the AVG was going to be incorporated into the army air corps? SA: It was pretty obvious that. I think I heard it some time, I wouldn't know exactly when but that was - no way we could make a [?] which we did on July 4th. These men could go home if they wanted to go home or they could stay in the army. I was one of the few who stayed, as a major. I went back to the United States, to the Pentagon and some friends got me a job, and that's about the way it was. FB: Skip, what was your reaction to the military now about to come in and take over the AVG? What was your personal reaction? SA: The communists? 3 �FB: No, the American military was about to take over the AVG, what was your personal reaction? SA: It was just one of the things that was going to happen. You don't have to worry about it, whether it was going to happen or not. This was a long plan and we had a long time to figure out - they had an apartment of four or five military officers who had [?] and anybody who wanted to stay in the army could stay and they would consider what they were - so a lot of them stayed in. You know what I mean by that? Everybody knew it was going to happen, and it did happen. FB: What would you say the morale was like amongst the AVG during this period of time? SA: The AVG in general were stupid to always say that the army was a terrible place. They didn't like the idea of getting back in the army, that kind of stuff, on the other hand, they didn't like the way - a lot of the things we did in the AVG. FB: Do you think that Bissell's speech had something to do with that? Were you present? SA: Some people say so - that's the kind of speech I'd expect from him. FB: Were you present at the Bissell speech? SA: I don't think so. FB: …observation at that time. Why do you think most of the AVG did not rejoin with the army air corps? SA: I don't know. I think a lot of them had been in before - a lot of them were navy people and navy people said, "Why in hell should I join the army", - something like that. Tex Hill, for instance, was a navy man, but he came back in. He got a job as a general. FB: What was your personal decision? What were you going to do after July 4th? What did you decide to do? SA: I decided to stay for a while, which wasn't too long, when I went back. 4 �FB: The AVG was promised passage back home in their original contract. They were supposed to be brought to China and returned back to the United States. What was your observation of what really happened? SA: Some of them they did send back, some of them they didn't. Some of these people, I didn't know much about, but they just went out for the ride. As soon as they got out there, they wanted to turn back, and they said, "We ain't gonna pay their way back, hell no. Somebody we fire, we'll see that they get transportation and we'll pay for it." That's the way it was. 5 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Skip_1991-06-06_v06 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Claude Bryant "Skip" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Skip Adair interview (video and transcript, 6 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Skip Adair trained as a pilot and was recruited by Col. Claire Lee Chennault in 1938 to serve as an instructor for the Chinese Air Force. During the months leading to the formation of the AVG, he toured Army Air Corps bases recruiting pilots and ground personnel in secrecy for the AVG. As part of the AVG Headquarters Staff, Adair acted as the Operations and Supply Group Executive Officer. In this tape, Adair describes the reaction to the AVG's first combat with the Japanese pilots after the bombing in Kunming, in addition to the final days of the AVG and the arrival of the American military. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/eda1ec9bdf158decc3dfcd101f505953.mp4 111855ad61c8ca873b1a610fbbead85d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/158a68fc1ecd0921ee2f0ce92abb4dfe.pdf b8ea7738c91093c363c82fda4785d90b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 7] FB: ……volunteered to stay on for the two weeks had difficulty getting back to the States, can you tell us anything about…? SA: I don't know anything about that, I don't know. We had no control over the - going into the air force - most of the got away. FB: What did you think the AVG accomplished in that one year? What would you say, from your own personal observation? SA: I think it's a proven fact that they are not just a simple bunch of people together, but they are really unspeakable in the way they accomplished what they did, and I would say they were entirely 100% successful all the way through, and I'm proud of being connected with it. I consider it the best thing that ever happened to me, to be in that organization. Does that answer you? FB: My next question is, what do you personally feel you accomplished during that year, and what effect did it have on your life? SA: I don't think I accomplished much. I might have accomplished a few things but I don't - I can't have missed much. For instance, some friends of mine gave me a job inspecting the problem and I was immediately one of the people to send out all over the United States in a short period of time, say one month, it was terrific. You'd think I was God, because I'd go from one place to another and write a report on the combat people and that, over and over. I didn't like that business of being an inspector, but I had to. Then I got out and with General Haynes and Mitchell Steele? And it was a bomber command, that's what it 1 �was. I was just happy to be - that was a happy thing, I guess. We had this house - we had to lease it. We bought it in '40. FB: Somewhere inside there, is all those friends of yours that I showed you pictures of [?] 5th anniversary, so instead of talking to me, I'd like you to talk to them. Because we will show this - I need you to look right into the camera - get yourself comfortable and look right into the camera. SA: Ladies and Gentlemen: I'm extremely sorry that I'm unable to be with you on this historic occasion, the 50th anniversary of the AVG, but I would like to say, being a part of this organization is something in my life - I'm proud of it, and always will be. There's one thing I would like all of you to know, that I have done the best I could, and I wish that my learned friends would tell me that I was right to go ahead with it. I also would like you to know that I think Dick Rossi has done a tremendous amount of good for the AVG and nobody forced him to do it. I have read a lot of books, met a lot of people, but I have nothing to be ashamed of, anything that I've done. The one thing that I do and hope that you will understand is my tremendous admiration for Chennault while he lived and everything. I also have some friends, best friends I've ever had - still are my friends, and one of them was good enough to say after writing a book, "Skip, I never heard anybody say an unkind word to you." I don't believe that. You can't take on a job like I had without making enemies, and I just want to say, "Hullo and goodbye to all of you." FB: That was beautiful. I want to ask one more question over again, and I realize that perhaps it's a difficult question to answer, but if you could try. We're doing these interviews with each person to get - what do you personally feel you accomplished in the AVG, and how did that affect the rest of your life? SA: I don't know that it affected the rest of my life, I don't know that. It's a question that's difficult to say - but I'll say this, and I mean every word of this. I have never made more than $10,000 in my life. I attended a party recently with a tycoon and at home, and he said, "That old so-and-so never made more than $10,000 in his life," and I said, "You're talking to one right now." Well, I don't still make that much, but I can't complain about my luck at all. I've got everything I want. I've got three children, put them all through college. They've all done much better than I ever did. My wife has been extremely important to me. She's had many, many friends in the upper echelons. I don't know of 2 �anything I can say except I appreciate you fellows coming by here to do this. I hope it hasn't been a bust. Goodbye. FB: I know it’s somewhat difficult to talk about yourself, but if you hadn’t gone around and recruited those people – there would be no AVG. And I guess, what we’re looking for… SA: They probably could’ve gotten somebody else… I don’t know… FB: Skip, we’ve heard what the guys have said about YOU! You haven’t heard that and I’ll tell you something – you’re pretty high up on the ladder in terms of people that they respect. And I know it’s kind of difficult, but this is for the record. There’s gotta be a certain amount of pride in what you did. SA: I have… FB: Please tell us about it. SA: Well, I have a tremendous amount of pride… I've said repeatedly, I think it was the most important thing I've ever done in my life, and I have done, on the other hand, some very significant things. I'm very much impressed - I don't anybody, that I know who has three children who have grown up and been so successful and I even have two great grandchildren, and what kind of life do you think I've done? Do you think I've been busted all the way? No. I don't think so either, and I'm just proud of everything I've got now. There's one little thing. This little house cost us $7,500. Now it's a hundred and some - way up there. They come by every goddam year and say, "That son of a bitch is worth more than that, let's raise his taxes up. He's so and so." Well, I bought it to live in, not trade off and make money out of. But that's what they're doing. They just keep on. I don't know what the hell's going to happen in death. If they keep on raising the damn taxes - I paid $20 a year for taxes when I bought it, now - thousands. That's just the house tax. 3 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Skip_1991-06-06_v07 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Claude Bryant "Skip" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Skip Adair interview (video and transcript, 7 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Skip Adair trained as a pilot and was recruited by Col. Claire Lee Chennault in 1938 to serve as an instructor for the Chinese Air Force. During the months leading to the formation of the AVG, he toured Army Air Corps bases recruiting pilots and ground personnel in secrecy for the AVG. As part of the AVG Headquarters Staff, Adair acted as the Operations and Supply Group Executive Officer. In this tape, Adair discusses the major accomplishments of the AVG during their historic year and the tremendous pride he has for being a part of the Flying Tigers. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9bde23484c9938a23132fd5b42e9fc41.mp4 81294a96cfba4730d106b840d537bd31 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fb819585952585bd65934bf0cfe0e18d.pdf ffb9e0b1392d6b0421b2711f48d27a97 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Marian "Steve" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] FB: Now is this your given name, or is this a nickname? MA: My real name is Marian Jeannette Stevens. And Skip's sister nicknamed me Steve and I've been called Steve ever since. FB: Steve, if we could begin with when Skip decided to go to China in the first place, what was your reaction to him to go off to China? MA: I knew when I met him that he had planned something. So I was not surprised when he went. FB: Steve, if you could tell us your reaction of him going to China. MA: When I first met Skip, I knew he was planning to go somewhere. He was in between. And it was to China. FB: What did you know about China at the time? MA: Nothing especially, except what I had read in the papers and history lessons. FB: And what was it that you had read or heard about? MA: Well it was such an entirely different lifestyle and people and we were in America. Those people living in China and their beliefs and yet some of their women had been educated in the United States which was very important and since I wasn't 1 �there for this they had gone to the Methodist Church and gone to the Methodist schools. FB: Now when he finally asked you to come to China, what was your reaction? MA: Well because I was really excited and my whole family was excited, the thought of their baby leaving the country and leaving her baby but my family thought it was the thing to do and my mother offered to keep my child and he really had a lot of love and care. My sister, Virginia helped her with care and he's known nothing but love all his life. FB: What did you find when you actually arrived in China, give us some of your observations, your first reactions, if you will. Here you are a young woman, American, you've heard your husband is going off there, you've seen things in the movies, read books, and everything, what did you actually find when you got to China? MA: Well, I landed in Hong Kong when I first arrived all the noise on the street and the conversations back and forth, not understanding anything, the [?] shows, that was fun and the most exciting thing was and upsetting thing was he was not there to meet me. He had had his friends meet me and the young lady that met me was Margaret Potsmith. It was a wife of, I've forgotten her husband's first name, Potsmith, he was a pilot, one of the CNAC's pilots. We became very good friends. They had made reservations for me at the Hong Kong and somebody else had made reservations at the Peninsula Hotel. And it ended up, Skip came in the next day, I think there was a Typhoon and the Indian Ocean I think was supposed to go through Hong Kong to get to Indo-China. And that was great pleasure. FB: Now, where did he take you next, where did you leave, when you left Hong Kong, where did you go? MA: We went by boat to Hathong [?] and then on up the train, a little local train to Mongsa [?] where there was a group of Americans stationed there, what they were doing, I don't know. Part of them eventually ended up in Kunming or had been in Kunming or Yunnan Ning. And became great princes, some of them. 2 �FB: What did you find when you arrived there, what was your living accommodations like? MA: The living accommodations in Mongsa [?]… I was only there a few days but the hotel we were in had been part of the French Embassy. The French had just recently left Indo-China. FB: Where did you go from there? MA: Went on up to Kunming, Baa, the French Railroad and it seemed like an awfully long trip but it wasn't as long as I thought. We arrived and all of Skip's buddies were there to welcome us. And that's all of the immediate reaction, I had to, things happened so fast about then. I have very little recollection of it. FB: When did you first meet Claire Chennault? MA: Sometime later, probably several months, I met Col. Chennault. That's what I always called him. That's what he was when he left the service before and at his own home in Kunming I met him with a group of other Pre AVG's and the CNAC pilots and of the men stationed in China. FB: Begin at the beginning of where you were when you heard the sirens go off and then… MA: Of the first air alert that I was in, was in Mongsa and just doing nothing but hanging around. Everybody said get your things together. We've got to go to [?], so we did, I think about a dozen of us. .When the Nang men went off to Rios together, we really did nothing until the siren stopped and then we got the all clear sign and we went back in. And it was exciting because I didn't know whether there'd ever been an air raid or not, but to expect it. FB: Amongst the Chinese population, either there or later on in Kunming, you had stated that you didn't have too much contact with Chinese people personally, but what were your observations of the Chinese in terms of their daily life or of this condition that they were in, though we saw pictures of goiters and things like that. 3 �Can you give us a sense of what it was like to live there and what your reaction was to the Chinese people? MA: Well the Chinese people that I knew some slightly through Skip's work and through our help, and our house boy they were very cooperative and wanted to help me in any way they could. The boys could even understand my English and I couldn't even understand their Chinese. Which was interesting. One house boy got fascinated because we let him run the Victrola. Played the records and after the machine wound up while he was playing them and he loved the Beer Barrel Polka. And one day by mistake, he got in and found the Begin the Beguine and the young boy was so hacked. Because he liked the rhythm of that Beer Barrel Polka. And the people on the street were in awe of me I think, they were polite and helpful I'm sure, If I had needed any help, mostly I was walking down at the airfield waiting for Skip to come in and walking around behind the hills behind the house and the, and one time, I know, when I arrived there, Skip had hoped to have a home built for me and the rains came and washed away the mud brick. So I stayed in the main neighboring town in a nice two-story complex, kind of a U-shaped building in the owner's quarters. And our house boy, Oscar, his family went over there with us. And it was fun. I finally bought a pair of Cooley shoes because all of my shoes were uncomfortable for walking the Chinese roads and highways and so the Chinese thought my big feet were just riots. They were pointing at my feet and I just laughed. And of course, I didn’t know what to think I just met them flat, didn't make any difference to me, I knew my feet were big. And seriously I didn't have a real Chinese friend and when I was in Hong Kong, I did meet and have lunch with Butterfly Woo. She had heard I was there and heard the girls talking about me and I had tried to play [?] with some of the women, and [?] she wanted to meet an American woman, so Mary Margaret Potsmith and I had lunch with Butterfly Woo. Now the big deal was that Butterfly Woo would speak English to me and would not speak English to anybody of America. And the girls just couldn't believe that she was talking to me in English. But she realized that I couldn't understand her Chinese and didn't want to go around an interpreter. So we had a very nice luncheon and that was my visit with Butterfly Woo. FB: Without trying not to sound too ignorant, who was Butterfly Woo? 4 �MA: She was the young lady that the young Marshall, I think they called him, a Chailor, became involved with and I don't exactly know what the situation was, like everything else, there's stories. But she had quite a reputation but she still seemed to be a fine young woman. FB: Did you witness any of the, what you would call brutality? Amongst the Chinese? There were executions for example, or anything, did you ever have any recollections of those? MA: They were very peace loving people and as far as I was concerned, they are definitely family people and loved the children, they of course, the medical situation out there, it just looked like they let the little flies and varmints eat up the sores that were on the children but possibly they didn't know anything better to do because it was definitely in the backwoods. And there were still women there with bound feet which had been outlawed for some years in China. And they all seemed to have some animal of some kind, following along with them. FB: Let's talk now about Chennault. You had a chance to get to know him fairly well, you got a chance to perhaps see a side of him that nobody else saw. What can you tell us about Claire Chennault? MA: Well, Claire Chennault, I met him first at his home in Kunming. And the group was getting together for supper and he was very friendly and kind and gentlemanly and we didn't have much to say to each other. Being in a group like that, I was sort of on the outside and looking in. I was obviously a newcomer. And then later I got to know him fairly well I think and he got to know me and we had some conversations. From your perspective, as an outsider looking in, what was your first reaction to seeing Chennault? What did he look like? Did he stick out in a crowd to you at all, was he, his face is often described as a leather face and his eyes were piercing black, did you have any of those kinds of observations about him when you first met him? FB: MA: Well, when I met him he was just one of the group. And he was much older than anyone there and I didn't react too much of his personal appearance. I've always been an observer and not a participant. 5 �FB: How about later, when you got a chance to know him better? MA: Oh, we just chattered around, general things, and some things that weren't so general. But… FB: What was your, well I guess what we're looking for is that Claire's no longer with us anymore. And all we have left, or just for posterity sake are just memories of people who did know him. And I'm not looking for you to give away any secrets, or anything like that, but what I am looking for is a personal perspective. You knew him and I didn't. My father knew him and I didn't. I guess what I'm looking for is for you to be able to give me an idea of what you like so much about him. MA: Well, I liked the man because he was quiet and was not trying to impress anybody. He had his own way of doing things and receiving people and handling himself. He loved children and he loved animals. He had a little Dachshund that he had with him for years. And the little dog, he'd say rats and that little dog was under the sofa and everywhere else looking for rats. And he, one of his favorite tales in Hong Kong after Pat was born, this was a year later than, he came by to see Pat have a bath. And I didn't think too much about it, went out to dinner that night and fortunately one of Skip's friends had let me use his house because his wife had been evacuated back to town, to Canada… FB: You're doing fine. The only problem is that the fabric on your pants, when you touched......... 6 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Marian_1991-06-06_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Marian "Steve" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Marian "Steve" Adair interview (video and transcript, 1 of 3), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Marian "Steve" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Adair, of Charlotte, North Carolina, was the wife of pilot Skip Adair. In this tape, Marian "Steve" Adair discusses her reaction to her husband, Skip, going to China and her first impressions upon joining him overseas. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a3c384584adf07bb8ef439b766b94ff3.mp4 834772fec0998c4185297962dbc16603 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/704fcff906dc5cf9c1e7111265dd2ca6.pdf 62bb01bfdaf4ff998607ce493e21e15e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Marian "Steve" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] FB: If we could, your personal observations of Chennault. MA: Well, Chennault to me was, as I say I met him first at a get together at a party. The Kunming, employees, or whatever you call them, that were working with him, were all there and he was just a quiet gentleman, playing host to the group. He was helpful because I didn't know how to handle this food you're supposed to cook like Sukiyaki, except it had a Chinese name. I did it again. FB: I think when you met Chennault at this party and he was very helpful and then go into the story about the Sukiyaki. MA: When I first met Chennault, was at a party that they had a get together of a CNAC and the instructor school, he was there and very quiet, very gentlemanly and very helpful. Trying to make me seem at home in a foreign country. He even helped me try to learn how to make the Chinese version of Sukiyaki which I have still not learned to pronounce. My inflections of the Chinese is not to be admired by anyone so I'll stop trying to, I did learn to count, and I left one number out. I don't know which one it is, like an E or some [?], I get lost in the middle of it but that's just part of me. Dead ears I suppose. Then later, he used to come and see the little girl that was the daughter of the common dot in Yu Nang Yee when he was up there, she was somewhere about 5, 6 years old. And he always came by and spoke to her, he seemed to enjoy knowing her. And one instance, he had come by, this was a year later, had come by to see my baby Pat, the redhead that was born in Manila, and he wanted to see that thick of hair. And so, he came out and Mama was giving her a bath and he just had more fun watching that little baby, probably about 3 or 4 weeks old and that evening I went out to supper with the gang to McDonald's and I 1 �guess I'd been living with the one that was the hero of kings. Had an apartment together and had us over there and he had arrived before I did and if there wasn't anybody else. Most of the people had arrived. He had been telling them about he had seen the redhead take a bath and of course they lived in what was called a fishbowl in Hong Kong, all of the apartments you could see from one apartment to the other. And so they were all trying to decide which redhead had not drawn the curtains, and when I had arrived, they found out that he talked about my baby Pat. But we got along fine. And he liked having his little jokes. FB: What are some of the things that you recall about Chennault's personality - in regards to you in terms of when he would talk to you? Did you feel like he was listening to what you had to say? Did it seem like he was interested in talking to you or was he just very much a part of the group? MA: When I was around him, the most, it was… the conversation was that he was talking to me and felt like I was a good listener. You probably can tell by the way I'm talking now, I'm not much of a talker. I guess when I get excited. FB: What things would he talk to you about? What kind of things did he talk about? MA: Well, one things about all the wars going on in the world and the standings of the Russians and the English and the Chinese and the branch - it was just astonishing some of the things he would come out with that I thought, my goodness, but I never did repeat what he said to anybody because he was talking to me and nobody else. FB: Did he tell you what he thought was the danger from Japan, that China was in danger? MA: I think so, that could have been included in this conversation he had with me. I mean he was just talking to me. I've forgotten we were going somewhere in a taxi, there were 3 of us in a taxi and he was on one side and I was in the middle. And it seemed to be very serious to me what he was talking about - his expressions of what was going on in the world. FB: What did he look like when he was happy? What would his face look like when he was happy? 2 �MA: He was just that relaxed little grin, with a few more wrinkles showing when he was happy. I never did see him when he seemed to be exuberantly happy. I don't think he was the type of man that would express his feelings too much. FB: What other kinds of emotions did you see in him, when he talked to you and he was maybe very serious about something? How did he look like to you? MA: Well, when he was talking seriously, he was very somber and was really concentrating on what he was saying, he was just not talking off his head to make conversation with me. He was expressing some deep feelings of his that would not be repeated and he knew it. Now I don't know that I ever had any reason to have conversations with him - he would visit us in our quarters at Mitchell Field later after Skip had gone back into the Air Force and brought his little dog with us, and his little dog chased the rats. Had fun and wanted to see the redhead again. And of course, that was before Stephanie was born and Mike was there - I had two redheads then, and I don't think he got to see him, I think they were in school the day he came by. He enjoyed it. We enjoyed having him. FB: If he was standing in this room right now, what would we see? Describe Chennault for us. MA: Well, he was, he'd be a middle-aged man, and probably looking older than he was because of his furrowed face, but a very alert person. Very much interested in the other part of the world. It wasn't just him, he was interested in other people and individuals as well as world affairs. FB: There was an incident you had mentioned about flying in an airplane with Billy McDonald? Do you recall that McDonald was flying from... If you could tell us about the trip that you took that was arranged on Man Tuck Hai Shek's [?] airplane? MA: I finally got ready to, Skip had proceeded to Yu Nang Yee and I was left in Kung Nang. McDonald who was one of Da Nang's pilots, got permission for Reynolds to fly me to Yu Nang Yee on the Madame's plane. FB: Start again, because of the phone. 3 �MA: Skip had left me in Kung Nang waiting for me to get transportation to Ny Nang Yee and McDonald who must of you know as Billy, and I always called him Mack got permission from Madame Chiang Kai-shek to fly me in her plane and Roland was the pilot, he and McDonald were the two pilots and it was fun because I had not flown in a small plane before and the dog which Skip had inherited from one of his friends who had just left, was in the back seat looking over our shoulders and got a little car sick and between me and the dog I think the pilot had his hands full, but we made it. Probably in good shape. And Skip was there waiting on us and was happy to see us and the dog was real happy to see the ground and Skip. FB: If you could give us an idea of, here you are a young married couple, and you had a child that was back in the States, describe to us what that must have been like? Here you are in a foreign country, you're in a backwoods environment, you're a young married couple. Living in a foreign land, your child back in the States, you're in actually a dangerous, even though you had a couple of air raids, it still was a war zone, if you will What was that like? MA: I didn't really feel, I felt the pressure of there being possible air attacks, but I felt I was being cared for, and I knew my child back home was being cared for and as far as being lonely I supposed I was lonely, but I was busy doing something all the time. Because the house you saw the curtains in there and you didn't see probably the bedroom and all the curtains, I made all of them by hand out of cooly cloth. Hems and ruffles on them, then the covers to the two things that looked like studio couches in the living room, and if there was a table cloth, I had done something to put an edge on that and I finally started making some clothes for myself and the houseboy rented a machine for me - a Singer sewing machine. I don't know how much, how he conned the tailor in the town to part with that machine for a week for me to use it, but he did and he - they were just very kind to me, all of the people, the house people and the people on the street, they would acknowledge the presence but they weren't, there was nothing threatening, the only thing Skip told me to be aware of the dog because they were unpredictable and our dog, himself was unpredictable. He'd been trained to chase the lights from the flashlights and just went wild running around the compound after the walls were finally built, chasing that light, and I told them I thought it was cruel that they shouldn’t do the dog that way but they went on and did it. It was fun to watch the dog. My dog chases around here, and I think she just chases herself. She has a ball that she grabs hold on occasion then, runs around, will not give it to anyone, she doesn't play pick and return to the owner. 4 �FB: Did you find life in China, a surprise, was it surprising to you, things that happened there? What kind of things did surprise you out there as an American woman out there? MA: Well, the, of course, I was brought up in a good size city which was Charlotte, N.C. and the difference in living in a fairly large city, not Metropolis, but a large city, and to see the difference in the streets and the roads, and the housing and the lighting and the, all the facilities was not unexpected because Skip had written to me about everything to expect when I got there, so I was not seeing the streets being used as a deposit stories, and no plumbing, no running water we had two Cooly boys that their one job was to bring water and gasoline in cans. I don't know what we would have done without the gasoline cans. 2 gasoline cans - only? A mile and a quarter from the one place you could get drinking water and this was all you used for all our household water and out tubs, they had to fill to keep the water on the stove, made out of gasoline cans and our latrine was made out of gasoline cans, everything, we don't know what we'd do without those 5 gallon cans. FB: What things in China upset you? MA: Well, I think the filth. In a way it couldn't be helped, in a way you'd think that somehow along the way that something, whether it been that the poor little children being strapped on the mother's backs, we see our children being strapped on the mothers backs when the mothers go shopping, these days just like those little infants out there, and that's the modern way of young mothers taking care of their children there. That [?] what the [?] had done for years. FB: What sorts of things amused you about China? MA: I don't know that I got amused too much. Now I enjoyed the Chinese Theater. It came to entertain the troops, so to speak, the boys and the Flying School, when we were invited to attend, and I had absolutely no idea what was going on in the stage, it was fun to watch with all in Chinese and expressive, but still I didn't know what was going on. FB: How did that year that you spent in China, how did that year affect you? 5 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Marian_1991-06-06_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Marian "Steve" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Marian "Steve" Adair interview (video and transcript, 2 of 3), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Marian "Steve" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Adair, of Charlotte, North Carolina, was the wife of pilot Skip Adair. In this tape, Adair describes her personal observations of General Chennault, in addition to her experience as a young married couple living away from their child in a foreign land. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/016f79a3ea25ae930d2fbe60f12dca6c.mp4 73ea2476f54f202df07296fdaaf10e66 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7e264cbd605b757a17bcba58279e5eff.pdf 3df28071b98c26698154ec8747842682 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Marian "Steve" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] FB: That year that you spent in China - how did that year affect your life and your marriage with Skip? MA: The year in China with Skip really welded our marriage and we both have been stronger because of it and as he said Mike brought us together and Pat kept us together and Stephanie, who is our baby, the one you saw the write-up on, was the one that really made the difference because we have a deeper understanding of each other and he also is more tolerant and I have become more tolerant. I'm supposed to be a creative person and I made fashioned clothes for some of my friends and could select who I wanted to work for and he puts up with that. That's the reason the house is such a mess, I don't think about housekeeping. I'm doing something else, creating. So he just says creative people have to make a mess. I'll create the cooking and I'll create the mess in the sink for somebody else. And sometimes I don't have that somebody else. FB: What are your memories of the war in China? Do you have any memories of the war? Skip was involved in the war. MA: To begin with, the only good news in the paper was these little blocks about that big, sometimes just two lines of what the Flying Tigers were doing in China. It wasn't on the front page, it was on the back page and my mother was an excellent reader and she would bring them to me and show them to me every morning if there was something good in the paper and I always felt like Skip could take care of himself. I didn't much feel that he might not come back. 1 �FB: MA: What did you know about Skip's work? Did you think that it was important? Were you aware of what he was doing? Did you have any idea of what it was he was doing? Well, in a way, but not too much because he didn't talk to me too much about it. His own family didn't know much about it. (break) FB: Did you feel that what Skip was doing was important? MA: Oh yes I did because I believed in China and China at that time was threatening to be invaded and was invaded and that made a difference because he was doing what he thought was right and it was good for both of us. FB: How was it good for you? MA: Well I think it made me a lot stronger person. I definitely would probably be momma's baby because I was. I never had to make a decision of my own all my life and I've had to and even now I have to make decisions that are sort of whopping. But we get along. He makes some decisions too. FB: How did you feel about leaving China? MA: FB: I didn't want to leave and yet I did want to leave. I felt for Pat's sake because she had already been born, that I ought to come home and it was much more crucial than when I got out there because I've forgotten whether the Chinese had closed the Burma Road - I don't remember why it was closed - it was closed and travel was not allowed on it and when it was reopened they didn't know what was going to happen and they were trying to get all civilians out of Hong Kong and I was one of the ones - probably the last ones - it wasn't long after that Hong Kong was invaded. My memory abates in years - confused. I never did make good marks in history. How did you feel about Skip returning to China to join the AVG? MA: Well that was in the book when our life together began because he was so dedicated to doing it and he only slept in this house 3 nights after we bought the house and it was devoid of curtains and rugs and furniture. We had a few sticks of furniture, but it was a challenge. There again, I had to do all the purchasing and decision making. I put myself 2 �on an allowance. He was making enough money at the time that we didn't spend it all and I just wrote my allowance from the account - Chase-Manhattan - and put it in my bank account here and kept the kids going and paid for a servant and paid for whatever I needed and then when things got too high, I just raised my allowance. FB: During this period of time, it was very unusual for a woman to be on her own raising a family. I wonder if you could give us an idea and give your family an idea of what that was like to be raising a family on your own? (break) MA: How did I feel as a single mother, so to speak, since my husband was gone? Actually one of the boys down the hill - a twelve year old boy - he used to come up and play with the kids and I was smoking cigarettes then and he was at the age - he might have been fourteen - he thought he could get by coming up here and smoking with his parents not knowing it and I couldn't stop him from smoking too much, I'd let him smoke one or two and then we'd do something else. He got the word around that nobody even knew whether I had a husband or not and of course, the people next door who we had known for these 52 years now, bless his heart, he's gone, but she's still living in town and they sold the house about 15 years ago to the people that are in it now, and the strange part about it - they also have 3 boys. The former almost had 3 boys and my boy didn't have a brother and he surely wanted that brother, but we just couldn't give him a brother. I did not have any problems. Occasionally, when I'd go out in the evening somebody might get kind of a smart attitude, but I never did have any trouble with men trying to outsmart me or financially or being rude to me because I had known several of the couples that he had known the six months he was here, you see, we lived in an apartment and met a lot of the - the McDaniel Heights Apartments is an apartment that a lot of people in Greenville started their lives in and I still know some of them. Just were about starting housekeeping like I was for the first time. I did have an apartment in Charlotte one time, but that didn't last long. Skip made me get it before he came back and I had a place for him to be with Pat and Mike without my parents being in the way, but they never have bothered us. They never have tried to run our lives and never did and we've just been strictly independent. Later his family moved to Greenville, we agreed we would not live in the town that either of our families lived in, but his father died in the meantime and his brother was in Burman, so his mother and sister moved to Greenville to be close to the other brother, 3 �and that's the reason we ended up - and it's been fortunate because we're all close and she needs us and we need her. FB: MA: You had touched briefly upon seeing articles or little bits and pieces about the AVG, but what was your reaction during that period of time you probably also knew that the Japanese were practically taking over Asia and the only real bright spot was the Flying Tigers. What was your reaction as a person here - a wife of one of the Tigers here in America what was your reaction to what was going on over there? We didn't like Japan trying to take over China, but that has been for thousands of years between the two countries - misunderstandings. China has been able to take care of itself and we thought that with this work that Chennault and the Flying Tigers were doing, that China had a chance of survival. (break) MA: The little bits of news that was in the paper were billed from the back pages of everybody's news and it was - Charlotte being a much larger city had better coverage probably than Greenville papers, but it meant a lot to them and to my friends here in Greenville it meant a lot knowing that Skip was over there. FB: We're trying to get a sense of during the dark days in China 1941-42 when the Americans, the British, everybody was being defeated over there, but this one group called the Flying Tigers had incredible successes against incredible odds. And your husband was over there. There was People, there was Time Magazine, there was Life Magazine, it was a big thing, but you had much more personal insight into all that. I guess what we're looking for is your personal reaction to the successes of the AVG when all else seemed to be lost. MA: The news filtering into the papers about the Flying Tigers in China of course affected me quite a bit and my friends who at that time had widened considerably, were impressed with it and would ask me questions that of course I didn't know, being so far away. But they kept up with it and were just most impressed. When Pearl Harbor came along, my 12 year old friend down the hill, the boy, came up - I had just come home from Sunday School with my two little kids and I had a rose garden at the top of the hill then - now it's grass - and I was looking at the rose garden, I had planted some pansies, and Do said "Ms. Adair, I hear the Japanese have bombed Pearl Harbor and Singapore and where's 4 �Skip?" I said "what?" He said "It's all over the newspapers" - not the newspapers - I think then the newspapers hadn't even come out - "It's all over the radio news" and so of course I had to turn on the radio and that was about 11:30 on Sunday morning, which was not too long after it really happened - come to think about it - 'cause that was Sunday. So I was informed of it right away by my little neighbor and the other people were concerned about me in the meantime. Don, next door had gone - he'd been in the Navy he'd gone back and became a Commander in the Navy and people were just leaving [?] my friends who had been in the service of any kind. FB: Well as they left, Pearl Harbor and the time after that, there was no real successes. The people that went over there were not being successful with the Japanese, but the Flying Tigers were. What was the reaction back home in the dark days before you knew the successes of the Flying Tigers? MA: It was just incredible. No one could believe how this little group of pilots could be performing such fantastic feats over there and it was Chennault's genius - I think it was nothing short of that - the way he trained them to attack and I think he should go down in history books as a genius in flying and having pilots trained. (break) FB: During the time that they were the American Volunteer Group, The Flying Tigers, what do you think Skip and Chennault and all the pilots and ground crew and nurses and doctors accomplished for the morale of the United States and the defense of China? MA: Well it was just so tremendous a thing that I cannot express it. Everyone was talking about the Flying Tigers and what they were doing. And some people didn't know my husband was over there. Some people thought - as I told you - the boy said that people were saying that I didn't have a husband - but to people around here the man that sold us the house knew I had a husband and the next door neighbors knew I had a husband because they were the only people here. In fact, there were just the 3 houses then - oh there were 4 - the one at the top of the hill. All the other houses have come in since then and the road wasn't paved. When we moved here it was a red mud road and Skip's brother, one of the last night he was here it had been raining before Skip left and he skidded down the terrace in that mud and they couldn't get the car out anyway so they had to send him - somebody else had t take him home and come back the next day to get 5 �the car out of the mud. But those people, that night were part of the group that of course knew Skip was around and knew that he was part of it and I think we all felt like Skip was always safe. I don't think it ever once entered my mind - I know some women were so fearsome - maybe I just didn't have sense enough to be afraid, but I've always believed in him and he must have always believed in me. 6 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Marian_1991-06-06_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Marian "Steve" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Marian "Steve" Adair interview (video and transcript, 3 of 3), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Marian "Steve" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Adair, of Charlotte, North Carolina, was the wife of pilot Skip Adair. In this tape, Adair discusses how the year she spent in China affected her life and marriage with Skip Adair, in addition to how the Flying Tigers affected the morale of the United States and China. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b6de938224dea9a50b908adb56dde150.pdf 19085c0323458e8b73af3effbeb9a731 PDF Text Text J ~ ;'//Urbi I ih vvu.d/ Nnv fa , ;rM v,c/4,,.Uz;./ -t;- /"'"' n'u .,Cc,71 W/l'-0 ~ t;:~ Vl/rl/t i?Vl/1, J ti'vt ;;t;, ~ tU/~ /,;:-,,0, 6 /v[/M,1,.1,:_,&) VV {u._2h; ~ (,!\,,,Wl !;;- hf' Uv <Y'1/ Jf;; ~~ /u_;; I= U4J¼ f -o/. .1/, -t; Ll.-{/vul,/ ~~- Cv~ v y -;(:;-- J~ j LJic;,r uj!'vfNv ~ .,f vUfl c,d;;L M t~v / l-(/l/v lfZAru,vi-J?v~~ f"/~ ~ ljpV W =c,{e,, c;l.; t:,1Ji.$k,:l'{~ Jfi; &.,au.,; ~~/J 'o/ o/e,,' ojyvt4~~ ~ ~ ~ J ; t,t,vtz;;,~ t.Mu' L/4//:.~ f u__/ .A,uzcfa: w~- diy d;c.u ft~ ~ LU;~/ &f/U/tA--vtvl-, //,(~ tJ/jC.0·1 I Ja~./J 1'1,(AU !uvve ~ /vt..i /f£vt~ I 1 /,,, lzJ ,/'!/ lbuu r:__ / 1;,;,;. f fL /Lt,<.J ~ wL o/ #CMA'/u,,,~J Cc,,1.,ul Cvbv cJ A.e~~v ~ f/6, &,u1 f /uv1-/ t///1, U/4.P 1t:;.,-!::;/ 1 ~ ;u.CJty ,1w, ~ef jut..~ uvl '" .(A.)1/l/' / L//,-n £ d~ , lz:r-<-v{,,. vi;.& jvvv/--;G~ ~ tfc; £u.b &-a/ vi: /4/vUVL,~ k ) ~ c---uJ �~ ti-d; ~ ' f7: J(U&vN<-,/ . �~ I ~ /I " ? "" ' ~ "' ~ <,; 1 I I I 1 .,..<· 1 1t l l l I � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b83985396a00a92270e71637bdec50ba.pdf 07a14afbe0fd3bc4f38d06410c55c05e PDF Text Text [Page 1] N. Sargent Esq. Washington, D.C. Boston 28 November 1868 Dear Sir I am indebted to you for your kind note, and its inclosure correcting an error into which the Washington Chronicle had fallen in regard to my fathers policy whilst President. If the writer could have seen the letter addressed to him by friends, remonstrating against what they called his fatal system of retaining opponents in office, which have just ben passing under my eye, he would probably have blamed him for his opposite action as entirely contrary to all received nations of the present day. My father was the last person who ever practiced upon such a thing, and will probably in the end be cited at marking an era in American history on that point. �[Page 2] Thanking you for your very spontaneous kindness I remain Yours truly C. F. Adams �[Cover] � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-44_NS1-15445 Title A name given to the resource Nathan Sargent from Charles Francis Adams, November 28, 1868 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1868-11-28 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adams, Charles Francis, 1807-1886 Description An account of the resource Note from the son of John Quincy Adams thanking Nathan Sargent for correcting an error in the Washington Chronicle claiming that his father retained opponents while in office. Subject The topic of the resource Sargent, Nathan, 1794-1875 Clay, Henry, 1777-1852 Harrison, William Henry, 1773-1841 Van Buren, Martin, 1782-1862 Whig Party (U.S.) Whig Party (U.S.). National Convention Antimasonic Party United States--Politics and government--19th century United States--Officials and employees Tippecanoe Club of New York Ashland (Ky.) Philadelphia (Pa.) New York (N.Y.) Virginia Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent papers, (RHC-44)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6b51be0fe9fc973b82361a0c0a02a9ab.mp4 aba7f3f665522908192edfb3f500c5bc https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d303bd07faa10f8e9a85893c061b51cd.pdf bd7dd9628b41e7822d57aec1a03f228f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Iraq Interviewee Name: Michael Adams Length of Interview: 00:30:35 Background  He wanted to be in the armed forces since he was six or seven. In his junior year, he began researching the different branches and decided on the Marines. Training (1:02)        He trained in boot camp in San Diego, CA. He was there for 13 weeks. While he was there he spent about 80% of his time in a classroom. It is just a myth that when you are there you run all the time. At first it was hard to get used to someone yelling at you inches from your face, but then by the last third of boot camp, it became humorous. After boot camp he spent eight weeks in infantry training. There he learned how to fight and use his weapons. He would then proceed to a specialty school for three weeks, in which he learned antitank assault. He would then be transferred to Chesapeake, VA where he would learn security force assault training, or SWAT school, after which he would work SWAT on and off for three years. He would go back and forth to VA for three years going to school and getting more training. (6:10) When he worked on the SWAT team, they would train all day and then work out in the evenings. Active Duty (10:25)          In spring of 2003, he was sent to Kuwait, to serve in “Operation: Iraqi Freedom” He spent six weeks at Camp Ripper, and trained for chemical warfare while they waited. When it was time to invade Iraq, they actually heard that they were invading through a broadcast over the BBC before they were told by their commanders. When they were in combat they spent most of the time on the offensive because of their aggressive colonel. His first experience on Iraqi soil was coming out of an Amtrak and seeing a woman and her child there. He did not expect any civilians. While he stayed with the civilians, he found that they were very pro-American. (15:45) When his team entered Baghdad, his team was greeted by the local population who asked them to tear down the statue of Saddam Hussein, so they did. His team never stayed in one place more than two days and they always slept in foxholes. When they got to different cities they would enter, sweep through it and clear it the best they could and left. The units behind them would occupy the cities. (20:23) �   When the statue came down they thought the war was over, so they set up camp in the middle of the desert and ran security for six weeks. When he was there the whole Marine Corps unit was stopped by a huge sandstorm. It was difficult to keep everything clean. Most could not go outside their vehicles or they would suffocate in the sand. After six months of service they took Kuwait public buses back to Kuwait and flew home to CA in civilian planes. After Active Duty (25:45)    When he was home he and his team spent their time preparing to go back. Most of his team did end up going back but he got out of the Marines a year after returning. The last four months he spent going to different funerals for the people who were killed in his unit. He spent some time visiting injured Marines as well. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adams, Michael (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adams, Michael Description An account of the resource Michael Adams was a marine who served in Operation: Iraqi Freedom in 2003. He served as a security forces specialist who would be one of the first team of Marines to enter Baghdad. He reports observing the destruction of the statue of Saddam Hussein in Baghdad. His unit mostly patrolled in the desert after the fall of Baghdad, and he does not report problems with local civilians. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Oberlin, Cody (Interviewer) Higley, Blake (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-05-13 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context AdamsM Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/49ddde5911b6ac1c645424fc69f506b1.mp4 5986581e24004680437de01c5d7aa22e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fbd9e4cda891d9bf3497bb774b0fafd5.pdf b7f50cdf3ae239ab31684f7709e62f08 PDF Text Text 1 Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran: Rita Adams Interviewed by James Smither Transcribed by Grace Balog Interviewer: We are talking today with Rita Adams of Farmington Hills, Michigan, and the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Okay now, can you begin with some background on yourself? And to begin with, where and when were you born? Veteran: Well, I was born in Wheeling, West Virginia. And February 7, 1922. Interviewer: 1922, so you are 99 years old. Veteran: Right. Interviewer: Not quite a record for me, but close. Okay. Now, did you grow up in Wheeling? Or did you move around? Veteran: I spent my first 21st years in Wheeling. Interviewer: Okay. Now— Veteran: And I went to school in Wheeling at a girls’ academy in high school. Interviewer: Okay. Now, was that a private school or a public school? Veteran: It was a private school. �2 Interviewer: Okay. Now— Veteran: You paid to attend there. Interviewer: Right. Now, what did— Veteran: I have a picture of that. Interviewer: Okay, now what did your family do for a living when you were growing up? Veteran: We were very fortunate because this was during the Depression and my father was in construction. So, we had a comfortable enough home. And we lived in the city. It wasn’t unusual to have a vagrant stop and ask for a meal in the evening. But my mother would serve him. They usually just came one at a time. Interviewer: Right. Now— Veteran: And so, then I grew up in Wheeling. Interviewer: Okay. Now, with your father’s business, did he do a lot of government contracts or…? Veteran: No. Interviewer: Just private work? (00:02:21) Veteran: No, it was just a…You know, work for the city. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: In the city. �3 Interviewer: Okay, but was he paid by the city of Wheeling or was he paid by just private people? What kind of contractor was he? Did he just do people’s homes? Veteran: Yeah, mostly. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And some businesses… Interviewer: Right. Veteran: …in Wheeling. But it was all in Wheeling. Interviewer: Okay. Alright, so even during the Depression there was enough work for him. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay, so you got by pretty well. And how many kids were in your family? Veteran: There were 5. Interviewer: And where were you in the sequence? Veteran: I was the 4th from the 5th. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Now, when did you finish high school? Veteran: 1940. Interviewer: Okay. And then what did you do after you graduated from high school? Veteran: Well, it was very popular then if you didn’t go away to college, why, the girls often were employed with the telephone company. Interviewer: Okay. �4 Veteran: And I—so, I was there for 2 years. Interviewer: Alright. And what were you doing for the telephone company? Veteran: Well, they called it representative. You know, service representative. You know, when you come in to pay your bill. Interviewer: Okay. So, you were not an operator, you were somebody who kind of worked at a desk and helped people. Veteran: Yeah. Of course, we all started out with just being an—you know, a telephone operator where you plug in. Interviewer: Okay, so you learned how to do the telephone operator job. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So, after that, then one day I noticed this post card—not post card, but… Interviewer: Like an announcement or…? (00:04:39) Veteran: A big… Interviewer: Poster? Veteran: And it said woman Marine. And I looked at it and I thought now there’s a uniform that I could wear every day. And the other, you know, the WACs and the— Interviewer: The WAVES. Veteran: --and the WAVES never turned really, you know… �5 Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Now, what— Veteran: And I liked—felt that—I was probably doing something for the war effort just by being there in Wheeling in the telephone company. But that really stuck my eye. And so… Interviewer: Okay. Now, I’d like to back up the story a little bit. Before Pearl Harbor happened, were you paying any attention to the news and the war in Europe or things like that? Veteran: I don’t think so. Interviewer: Okay. How did you learn about Pearl Harbor? Veteran: Oh, well everybody heard. You know, that was on a Sunday. And it was, you know, a very big happening. Interviewer: Now, did you listen to the radio or just hear from other people? Veteran: We must have had it on the radio. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: I remember I was—we were practicing Christmas hymns. And it was, you know, the 7th of… Interviewer: December. (00:06:26) Veteran: December. And yes, it was just—everybody was caught up in that… Interviewer: Okay. Right. Now— Veteran: …the bombing at Pearl Harbor. �6 Interviewer: Right. Now, after—once the war started, how did that effect life in your hometown? Is there rationing or things like that? Veteran: Everybody tried to do something for the war effort. Everybody was caught up in it. And well, as you probably know, the automotive kind of came to a standstill and they, you know, started making planes and all that. We had like food stamps, I guess you would say. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: And they were rationed. And everything was rationed I would say. Interviewer: Right. Now, because of your father’s business, could he get more gasoline or anything else than other people? Veteran: Probably but you know I wasn’t privy to that. Interviewer: Okay. Now, after you finished high school, were you still living at home? Veteran: I was. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. (00:08:16) Veteran: And I had no dependents. I was pretty free. I wasn’t engaged or anything like that. So, I was really very free to, you know, to leave. Of course, I had to get it by my mother and my dad. Interviewer: Now, what did they think of the idea of your joining? Veteran: Mother was always open for us to improve ourselves. And but my dad? You know, that was a little bit different because he said, “What does your mother think?” you know. And so, I had to get it past him. And I said, “You know, we will be supervised…” you know. So, in that �7 era, my dad—we had two brothers—dad seemed to cater to the boys and mother to the girls, the three girls. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So anyway, I got the permission from both of them that, okay, I could try out. Interviewer: Okay. (00:10:06) Veteran: So, I went to Wheeling enrollment, but they didn’t have an enrollment for women Marines in Wheeling so we had to go to Pittsburgh, which was 50 miles away. So, the—there was one other girl and—who was about to—enlisting. So, her dad volunteered to take us, the two of us, to Wheeling—or to Pittsburgh. And so, he knew his way around Pittsburgh pretty well. We went to the Marine enrollment, you know. And he walked in and he said, “These two girls want to be Marines.” So, we enlisted that day and then we were like on call for a month or two until we were… Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: …notified. And so, then we— Interviewer: Now, when did you originally sign up? What year was that? Veteran: I do have it on my record there. In April, like April 14, in 1941. Interviewer: Or…’43? The record says ’43. ’41 was before Pearl Harbor. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: So… Veteran: It wasn’t ’41. It was…Well, it would have been…Let’s see… �8 Interviewer: Well… Veteran: I signed up in ’43. Interviewer: Yes. Okay. So, we have that. That’s what the record says. So, we are good. So, April of ’43 you sign up and then do you go home then and wait for them to contact you? (00:12:22) Veteran: Yeah, exactly. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And we—then they—I was notified in I think it was June. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And then we went to…Went to—well, I think we went once more to Pittsburgh. Interviewer: Maybe Pittsburgh, yeah. Veteran: We went to see them and we were still in civilian clothes. And from there then we went to—we were notified to go to Hunter College in New York City. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So, we were on a Pullman. Interviewer: Because you took a train, yeah. Veteran: And we were met in New York by a woman Marine officer. And then from there, we went to Hunter College for I think it was 6 weeks. Interviewer: Okay. So, you are in bootcamp now. �9 Veteran: Basic, right. Interviewer: Okay. So, what was that training like? What happened to you at Hunter College? Veteran: You learn to march. We marched in the rain or whatever. There were men who were the callers and they taught us to march. Then we also were screened at that time. And we were fitted with uniforms. I would say we were beginning to feel like we were Marines, you know. (00:14:36) Interviewer: Okay. Now— Veteran: So, everybody was assigned and I was assigned to Marine headquarters in Arlington. Interviewer: Okay. Let’s talk a little bit more about that time at Hunter College. Now, when men trained as Marines, there is a lot of emphasis on discipline; following orders, punishing people who don’t do it. How much of that did you get? Was there—were they teaching you to follow orders? Veteran: We—that was very important and a very important part of our training. The discipline, you know. So, we—I think the one thing that I missed most was the privacy. You know, if you wanted to cry or you had to cry, there was—you know, we just didn’t have privacy. But anyway… Interviewer: Now, were you all in an open barracks? Veteran: At Hunter College we were just in dorms. Interviewer: Dorm rooms, okay. �10 Veteran: Yeah. When we left Hunter College, I think they were—it was very new places to barracks Interviewer: Yeah. (00:16:20) Veteran: And there were…I don’t know, I would say maybe a lot of us people who were working in civil service. They had a long barrack, a long row of rooms. And we were housed there and then as that opened up and we would be transferred by trucks—Marine trucks—to the city in Washington. Interviewer: So, were you— Veteran: To headquarters. It wasn’t that—we were in the Arlington or we were in, sometimes, we were in Maryland. And we would be transferred to wherever we were assigned. And I was Marine headquarters. And that’s just like right across from the Arlington Cemetery, really. You know, it’s on a hill. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: So, there I assigned the Marines—the male Marines—to their duty on their nights. And where other people worked. We—it was I think just, you know, assigning the men on their duties. Interviewer: So, you were in charge of just keeping track of duty assignments and who was supposed to be where. So, you were just in— (00:18:46) Veteran: I worked in an office. Interviewer: Right. Okay. Veteran: And that was my job. �11 Interviewer: Okay. Now, in that office, who else was in the office with you? Veteran: Probably 3 other Marine women and then the management was all male Marines. Interviewer: Okay. Now, were they sergeants or officers or…? Veteran: Well, what is the term for, you know, they are not—almost an officer but— Interviewer: Well, there is a warrant officer. Veteran: That’s it. Interviewer: Okay. There you go. See, she knows her stuff. Alright. Veteran: Yeah. And he was our—the, you know… Interviewer: He’s your supervisor? Veteran: The supervisor. Interviewer: Okay. Now, how did the male Marines there treat you? Veteran: Usually, they were very good. Of course, you know, they organized women to release more men. And, you know, so we took over. But on the whole, I didn’t encounter any, you know, resentment… Interviewer: Alright. (00:20:25) Veteran: …to women. In fact, I think they were so glad to have women around, you know because, you know, it got pretty boring. And they were probably not assigned for a very long time and then they’d be out, you know, so everything was a very short relationship. �12 Interviewer: Okay, so a lot of these men that you are dealing with come in for a short period of time and then are transferred out somewhere else. And a lot of them were new to the service or they had just gotten in and they had just left home and… Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: And you are a nice person who can talk to them. Veteran: And I remember one incident. The people like myself, the women Marines, that were in very early in the organization, we would have the opportunity to go out on a subsistence [allowance] and many people in Washington D.C. were eager to make some money, rent out a room for four girls or something like that. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And so, we—before the barracks were finished in Henderson—that’s where the barracks were—we would have the opportunity to maybe go into a subsistence, what they called subsistence. (00:22:31) Interviewer: So, you are renting a room in a private home or apartment building or something. Veteran: Exactly. Interviewer: Yeah. And did you do that? Veteran: Yes. We did that from time to time. When they got—we first saw maybe a note in our luggage. And we—they would transfer us to a home. Interviewer: Okay. �13 Veteran: And maybe there would be four, you know, living in this home. And we would be able to come to the barracks that were accommodating some of the people who enlisted later on. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: But there weren’t quite enough barracks yet for all the women Marines in Washington. So, you know, we had the opportunity to go into other places. Interviewer: Now, when you lived off base, did you live in Arlington or Washington or where were you? Veteran: Some of—most of them were in Washington. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And before we went to Washington, we were in, as I mentioned, Maryland. They had some—a lot of places, but I imagine were built for the…You know, the people who worked in what’s—what I am trying to say, that worked in my—in social security. (00:24:31) Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Now, while you are…So, when you are based at Arlington and you have your job and you are going in, did you have a lot of free time in the evenings? I mean, did you just work a day job? Or a night shift? Or what did you have? Veteran: Yeah, well we were all on a limited—I think it was 9 o’clock at night I think was the… Interviewer: Was that a curfew? You had to be in by 9? Veteran: Curfew, yeah. Interviewer: Okay. �14 Veteran: So, we had to be off the streets at that time. But to—we were—there were USO clubs and things to see other than—like the museums and so on. Interviewer: Yeah. Okay, but when you were living off the base, did you still have to be inside by 9? Or did you have more freedom? Veteran: Oh definitely. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Because they had, you know, security on the streets, you know. But what did they call them? Interviewer: Could be military police or— Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: --Navy shore patrols and things like that. Veteran: Military police. Interviewer: Right. Okay. Veteran: And so, yes, everything was supervised. Interviewer: Okay. Now, how long were you at Arlington? (00:26:18) Veteran: In Washington D.C.? Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: 19 months. Interviewer: Okay. �15 Veteran: And then I volunteered to—when they opened up Honolulu, or Pearl Harbor, I volunteered to go. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: It was all volunteer. Interviewer: Alright. Now before we get there, when you think about the time that you spent in Washington and that area, are there particular things that happened that stand out for you? Or people or events that you remember? Veteran: Well, we were—in Washington, there were a lot of important people coming into the city. Every time that happened and every holiday, it would be a big march, which was really a lot of the time that we did because—I shouldn’t say a lot of the time, but those were things that I think they wanted to impress on people coming in. And so, we did a lot of marching. Interviewer: Okay. So, they had the women Marines marching in parades or welcoming people. Veteran: Parades, right. Interviewer: Yeah, parades. Okay. Veteran: Yeah. Other than that, we—I was working in an office and had the opportunity to go to the barracks for our mess hall. And so, it was…Pretty much day to day we would be transferred when we were living out of the barracks—or I should say when we were transferred into the barracks and we would be transferred in a Marine truck into the, you know, city. Interviewer: Okay. (00:28:51) Veteran: So, Arlington is very close to Washington D.C. �16 Interviewer: Right. Veteran: So, you know… Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Now, did—when you went to the mess hall, for instance, were you there with the men as well and everyone together? Veteran: No, it was all women. Interviewer: Okay. So, they kept you apart so that— Veteran: Oh yes. We were not—they had their own—they were in from Quantico. Interviewer: Okay, alright. Okay, so you made a trip to Annapolis. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: So, talk—tell us about that. Veteran: Well, it was just like an overnight. So, I don’t know how we were transferred. It must have been on a bus. And it cost—we had to pay for the transportation. And this one girl who was going with us, she could not come up with the money. And we said, “Well here, just call—get in touch with your parents.” She was from Portland, Oregon. And she said, “Well, I’ve never asked them for anything.” (00:30:30) Veteran: But anyway, we encouraged her and she did. So, I said, “Well, what do your parents do?” She said, “They are both attorneys.” And she was afraid to even ask for probably $20, you know. So anyway, they sent the money and so, yes. So, we just toured the Annapolis and all the men that we joined up with were all officers—ensigns, probably. And we were all enlisted. And that didn’t set very well with the people in Annapolis, you know. They said, “Well, you really should, you know, cater to the…. officers.” �17 Interviewer: Yeah. Well, they did not want officers and enlisted fraternizing. They did not do that. Veteran: Yeah. I remember that was—the women were all enlisted and the men were all officers. So, they were—we just toured the place. And I can’t remember any great meals or anything. We, you know, somewhere or another we—it’s been a long time ago, you know. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: So, all I remember is we had a great time. Interviewer: Okay. Now, when you are on the base back in Arlington or in Washington, were there rules about personal relationships? I mean, were you allowed to date any of the men? (00:32:28) Veteran: Oh yeah. Yeah. And most of the time, you know…Most of the time it was enlisted people with enlisted people. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: But that’s not to say that there weren’t a lot of officers with enlisted women, you know. Interviewer: But there was not a problem with enlisted men and enlisted women going out or whatever. Veteran: No, no. In the private school in Annapolis, you know, they probably… Interviewer: Well, that was a little different because that’s the military academy. So, they are a little different there. But on your base, for the regular personnel, there was not a problem. �18 Veteran: Right. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Now, during that 19 months you are in Washington, did you ever go back home? Or did you just— Veteran: Oh yes, we had liberty. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And we would—most of the time, we were able to get home for Christmas, Thanksgiving maybe. Interviewer: Okay. Now, did you have any brothers in the service? Veteran: Yes, I had 2. Interviewer: And what did your brothers do? Veteran: My one brother was in the radio and he was—you know, they had a select[ive] service, which was really before Pearl Harbor. And he—there would be, you know, their name would be called and they would select. Interviewer: Right. Well, like drafted? (00:34:18) Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: So, he was in radio at that time. My other brother—and he was married and had a child. So, he, you know, didn’t touch those people until long—maybe ’44? Interviewer: Yeah. �19 Veteran: You know? And so, he went right into the infantry. And he went overseas. Interviewer: Did he go to Europe or to the Pacific? Or…? Where did he go? Veteran: Alsace. Interviewer: Okay, so France. Yeah. Veteran: And I can’t…I would have to… Interviewer: Okay. But he was in the European theater. Veteran: Oh definitely. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: I was in Washington when my one brother was going through to go overseas. So, that was nice. We met: he with a buddy and me with a friend, a girlfriend. And you know we sat around and didn’t do much, just until his train was up. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: That was…Yeah, he—it was good to see him before he left, you know. But they were—they both got through their Army and they were both in the Army. Interviewer: Okay. (00:36:17) Veteran: And also, the one boy that—one brother—that was in radio, he too went overseas about the same time. So, he was stateside quite a while. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And then he went over. And they both survived the war. �20 Interviewer: Very good. Okay. Veteran: But my one brother said he felt his time was near being—losing his life in some way because he saw so many die or the sister ship he saw go down. Interviewer: Okay. So, he was in a convoy going across the Atlantic and another ship sank? Okay. Veteran: And just to see your friends, you know…It was pretty…So, he felt his time would be… Interviewer: Yeah. Well, if he was in the infantry late in the war, there was a lot of hard fighting in northeastern France and then even going into Germany. So, the area he was in was hotly contested in ’44 into early ’45. So, he would have—he might have seen a lot there. Yeah. Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So anyway, when—I guess I did say that we now prepared to go to Pearl Harbor. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: To Honolulu. Interviewer: Right. Okay, so how did they get you to Pearl Harbor? (00:38:13) Veteran: How did we get there? Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: Oh, on a ship 5 days. I went on the Matsonia, which was a luxury—an old—luxury liner. 5 days. Sick the whole time. And but when we disembarked, it was beautiful. The highlight �21 of my career, you might say, because I was able to walk off the ship. And we were greeted…300 sailors, you know. And everybody welcomed us. And they had built a barracks. Our barracks were ready for us. Interviewer: Now, was that right there by Pearl Harbor or around that area? Veteran: It was on Pearl Harbor. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And then I—at first, I was assigned to the post office, which was right on Pearl Harbor. But that was in, you know, ’44. You could still see the smoke. But I didn’t get near the Atlantic. Interviewer: Well, the Arizona? Veteran: The Arizona. Interviewer: Yeah, because that was the ship that blew up and part of it was still sticking up. Yeah. Now, were you the first women Marines there? Veteran: Not the first, but probably the third group. Interviewer: Okay. And then about how many women Marines were at that base, do you think? Veteran: At the base? Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: I don’t…I wouldn’t venture to say. Interviewer: Do you know how many women Marines came out in your group? When you landed, how many of you were there? (00:40:27) �22 Veteran: Yeah, I am trying to think about how many were on the ship, you know, going over. I will backtrack there and say from Washington we went to San Diego to train. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: For 6 weeks. Interviewer: So, what kind of training did you get in San Diego? Veteran: Well, we had to make sure we knew how to swim. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: We exercised. That was—and that’s, you know, a real base for the Marines, for the male Marines. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: So, then from there, it’s always a time when you have to just sit and wait for the right time to go. And so, we mailed—we left from there from some…It wasn’t San Francisco because we came back from San Francisco. So, it was…I don’t know. Interviewer: Probably out of San Diego or Long Beach. Veteran: Probably. Interviewer: Or some place, yeah. Veteran: Someplace near San Diego, you know. And as I said, 5 days on the ship. Interviewer: Okay. �23 Veteran: And so, then we were assigned as I say. And left in the barracks, double deck barracks. And we had to, you know, have our night—you know, 2-4 you had to have your…You probably can tell me the terms of these things at night. It’s hard for me to pull it all out. (00:42:54) Interviewer: So, they have—you’re talking about bed checks, or you have to be in bed by a certain time? Veteran: Well, and you were always assigned, just like I was assigning people in Washington. Well, over there, I was being assigned. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And you had to, you know, peruse—go through all these—barracks and, you know, you’d usually get on a 2-hour shift. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And mine always seemed to be 2-4, you know. I was always kind of hesitant to…You know, I wasn’t too brave about walking up and down these corridors and, you know, hear all these… Interviewer: Okay. So, you are basically making sure everyone else is where they are supposed to be. Veteran: Exactly. Interviewer: And nothing funny is happening in the barracks. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. �24 Veteran: Yeah. So, sometimes I would, you know, encourage someone to go with me, which was crazy. But anyway, I was—you know, you hear all these funny sounds at night, you know. And one of the things I do remember was the night before we—are you looking at something? (00:44:41) Interviewer: No, I just saw somebody walking around out front. Veteran: Oh, okay. The night before we left, everybody was bedded down and you would hear this voice in the darkness preparing us for what we would encounter overseas, and what we might encounter. And it was such a wonderful talk to prepare us, you know. I think that was maybe that one time that I thought this could be really scary, you know. And before that, maybe I thought well, it’s just an adventure to get over to Honolulu. But she pointed out how important this particular venture was. So, but anyway, I was over in Honolulu. That was the city. Interviewer: Yep. Veteran: And Pearl Harbor was where the post office was. So, we—I was just over there for 7 months until the war ended. Interviewer: Right. Now, while you were there, could you get liberty and go to the beach and go into town and…? (00:46:29) Veteran: We had liberty, yeah. you had to apply for it, you had to have a—you know—pass. And you had to present that wherever you were. Interviewer: Okay, now— Veteran: Wherever you went, you had a time limit. �25 Interviewer: When you went off the base, did you wear your uniform or did you get to wear civilian? Veteran: We could wear civilian. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Now— Veteran: And it was a great time to do it too, you know. Just to pretend like you were there visiting. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: But there were a lot of people over there who lived over there, you know. And they would invite us for parties and, you know…And it just so happened that I had a distant cousin who was a chaplain. And so, he had a lot of contacts. And so, there were I think just more or less that there were a lot of opportunities maybe to meet other people, to—and to meet some of the people who lived there. Interviewer: Right. (00:48:11) Veteran: And this chaplain took us to—took me—to a place like a convent of nuns. And I think now I wish I had a picture of that. But anyway, and being over in Pearl Harbor, they did give us opportunities to visit Diamond Head and you know all of the… Interviewer: The tourist places? Veteran: Absolutely. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: So, I know I—it’s been hard for me to pull up this thing at 99. �26 Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: You know, but so I just hope you have been… Interviewer: Okay. Now, did you meet your husband in Hawaii? Veteran: Yes, at the—a friend of his…He was in the Army and a friend of his was to marry a woman Marine. So, I was invited by her and my husband was invited by the male, the groom. And it was in a little, you know, church. And then we had a little reception after. And I…When I met my husband at the reception, we just kind of took to each other. And he managed to—I don’t know how he did it—but we were all transported by truck, except the officers would have a jeep. And so, he took one of the jeeps afterwards and took me back to the back barracks. And he was up for—what do they call it? You know, when you have to report for being like AOL— (00:50:54) Interviewer: AWOL? Well yeah, so he is... Veteran: Or something like that, you know. So, an officer called him up and so he had to explain what happened. And but anyway, that was in June. And then the war ended in… Interviewer: In August. August? Veteran: Yeah. Yeah, August 15th. Interviewer: Now, what branch of the service was your husband in? Veteran: He was in intelligence. Interviewer: Was he in the Army? Veteran: Army. �27 Interviewer: Army, yeah. Okay. Alright. And was—and he was an enlisted man? Veteran: He was. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: That’s why he got in trouble for taking the jeep, right? Veteran: Yeah. But this distant cousin of mine who was a chaplain, you know, he was just so this man, but I didn’t know whether I really wanted…There were other things in the world that I thought maybe I might like to do, you know. And the service was—the Marine Corps—well, all of the services were very generous with education and GI Bill and all that. (00:52:27) Veteran: You know? So, I don’t know whether I would have agreed to get married at that time or not. But as it happened, the war ended and my husband was—had been in the service for four years so he was one of the first to be discharged. And he came back I think in September and I came back in November on another ship, the Solace. That was a hospital ship. And I was only sick for two or three days because they had some, I don’t know, saline solution or something to get me on my feet. And so, I kind of enjoyed the—you know, the… Interviewer: You got a good ocean voyage this time. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Yeah. Okay. Now, where was your husband from? Veteran: Michigan but… Interviewer: Okay. �28 Veteran: Wyandotte. Interviewer: Alright. Now, had you—were you writing to each other or stayed in communication? Veteran: Yeah. I guess we…But we had planned to get married. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And—which we did. I was…I came back in November and we were married in November, the last part of November. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: So, then it’s whole different… Interviewer: Alright. Well, what kinds of things did you—after you got out of the military, you got married. Now, did you take a job after that? Or what did you do? (00:54:35) Veteran: For 9 months, my husband worked for the Veterans Affairs. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: In Wyandotte. And I learned how to cook. I think he was tired of poached eggs in the winter and strawberries and ice cream in the summertime. So, he presented me with a couple good house keeping books. And so, but I still wanted to do something more. Take advantage of the opportunities that was offered. Well, he wasn’t open to a 4-year college, so we settled for 2years of business college in Detroit. I don’t know whether you are familiar with downtown Detroit, but it was in the Pugh building. Interviewer: Okay. �29 Veteran: So, we graduated from there. Business, bookkeeping, type shorthand. I don’t think that shorthand is—people don’t even know what it is. Interviewer: They don’t learn shorthand anymore. Not too often. Veteran: We learned shorthand. Interviewer: Yeah. (00:56:07) Veteran: And, you know, men had secretaries. Now, the men have their own computers and do it themselves, you know. But anyway, my husband didn’t—after we graduated, he went with Ford, I went with GM. And so, that—I don’t think he was very comfortable that we were separated by the different automotive companies. He thought maybe I should be, you know, where he was in Ford. But anyway, that worked out fine. And I was in GM overseas. That was my—and I was doing secretarial work. I don’t know whether you want that. Interviewer: Well, I was just curious. Did you continue to work after you had children? Or did you leave when you started to have kids? Veteran: When I—after we were married about 4 or 5 years, I thought yeah, it’s time. You know, we should have…In that time, we had gone to business college. And I had worked a couple years. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And I…So, we had—I stopped working and we had 3 children. And then I thought, oh, I want to go back to school or something as soon as that first one is able to stay home by herself if she had a cold, you know. So, then I started. Madonna College was, you know, there in the city that we were living in. We were living in Livonia at that time. �30 Interviewer: Right. (00:58:38) Veteran: So, I went and I talked to these nuns. And I said, “I don’t think I am going to have anymore children.” And I wanted her to say well that’s fine, you know. And so, I said, “I just thought maybe I would like to get a little more education.” And she said, “Well, what would you like to do?” And I said—the only thing I could think of was home ec, you know. And she said, “Well, we will start with history and English.” You know? So, I did part time in those subjects. And then—from then, I went to…We had the—I don’t—I think it was maybe the city or I don’t know who it was that offered this occupational therapy assistant. Excuse me. Yeah. So, I thought that sounds like what I would really like to do. And it was only a one-year course. And then you could be certified as an assistant. Interviewer: Alright. Now, we were talking about the education you got after you had kids. And you went into occupational therapy. So, you did a one-year program for that. And then, did you get a job in that field? (01:00:48) Veteran: I got a job with—in physical at—with the VA hospital. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And that was in Allen Park, at that time. And I worked and I have some pictures of that. I have…Let’s see. From there I think I was there four years. And then I went back to school. That occupational therapy course was given at Schoolcraft College. And it was the first year that they had the… Interviewer: That program? �31 Veteran: That program. Yeah. And there was a—our tutor was from Wayne State. She came and she was very good. Registered…You know… Interviewer: Nurse? Veteran: Occupational therapist. Interviewer: Occupational therapist, okay. (01:02:18) Veteran: But anyway, so after that, then I went back to Schoolcraft and I just got another degree in general studies. And then I… Interviewer: Well, did you continue to work? Did you go back to work again? Veteran: No…I think for a while I went to Schoolcraft. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And then, we had a Right to Read program and I went through that at Madonna. And then…You know, I can’t remember. Oh, well then when I did get through the—I graduated from Madonna College with a degree. And then I did substitute teaching. I thought, you know, I was like 54 years old then. And I surely didn’t want to take on a class, you know, full time. So, I remember the first time I went in to have the—you know…Yeah, and so the next after that day— after—the teacher wanted me to come back, you know, the next day. And I said, “I don’t think they like me.” And she said, “Oh, that’s the way they always act.” So, then I made the adjustment and I—you know, I did substitute teaching for quite a while. (01:04:47) Interviewer: Okay. And where were you doing that? Which towns? Veteran: Where what? �32 Interviewer: Where were you substitute teaching? Veteran: Oh, just in Livonia. Interviewer: Okay. Now, were you doing high school or elementary? Veteran: Yes, it was one of those from kindergarten through high school. Interviewer: Oh, okay. All in one school? Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: So, I could have the, you know, the advantage of every one. Then substitute teaching kind of dwindled. Maybe—I don’t know why? But maybe some people dropped out. There wasn’t that need. And so, then I went into…Oh, like recreation therapy. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: You know, like that type of thing with some of the older…what do I say? You know, when they have occupational and also exercise. Interviewer: Right. (01:06:25) Veteran: Different activities. In several different… Interviewer: Yeah. With hospitals or— Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Yeah. Okay. Alright. Now, so you did a lot of different things after you got out of the military. �33 Veteran: Why, I did. I did. And then for a hobby, I had always—as a kid—little girls were always encouraged to take piano, you know. So, I did a little of that. And when—after all these other things, I decided to—you know, to play piano you just had to keep practicing all the time. So, I took up keyboard. And I really enjoyed that. And I could make, you know, music sound pretty nice. But anyway, that was…But then, you know, things started to go. My eyes—I couldn’t see as well as I used to be able to. So… Interviewer: Alright. Well, to think back to the time that you spent in the Marine Corps, what do you think you learned from that experience or how did that effect you? (01:08:20) Veteran: What did I learn about it? Interviewer: Well, from being in the Marines, yeah. Veteran: For being…Just as I wrote here, and it was—this is what I learned, I think. You can read that, I can’t. Interviewer: You can go ahead. Veteran’s Daughter: It says—Mom said her memorable experience was: Being involved in World War 2 as a member of the Marine Corps was a once in a lifetime experience. Learning about discipline and how to carry out orders were very much a part of our day. During my two and a half years of service, most of which were spent in the clerical field, I was assigned to Arlington, Virginia, and Hawaii. Out of this wartime experience came lasting friendships, the most significant of which was meeting my husband in Hawaii. �34 Interviewer: Okay. And then, while we were off camera here, you also mentioned that at least one of your friends from Arlington kept in touch with you. And gave you a wedding present? Or…What was that story? Veteran: What was your question? Interviewer: Well, I just wanted you to tell us about how she found you or how you… Veteran: Oh, the wedding gift. Interviewer: Yeah. (01:10:02) Veteran: Betty Mitchell. And she was in Baltimore. Had horses. And so, she was going from coast to coast to visit her former Marines. And I think got back—our stop in downtown Detroit was—probably would have been her first. So, she was there for overnight. And we took her to the Statler and had another boy—she wasn’t married. So, we got her one of our friends so four of us, you know. Had a lovely evening at the Statler Hotel. And then when she left, yes, she said, “Don’t you have any china?” And I said, “No. You know, we were just married like that…Married in the uniforms when we got back.” So, then she sent these Audubon plates with the Audubon birds on them. And Amy has these. Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: So, that was…You know…But if you look in that envelope that has the…Yeah, the— well, I just wanted to… (01:12:18) Interviewer: There you are. Let’s see, that is a graduation picture. Now, do you have— there’s the larger portrait picture of her in uniform. Can we pull that one? Because I can �35 just…That first one there, yeah. Because that one…And then that is her in her flashy Marine Corps uniform. Alright. Veteran: I—when I was discharged, I was a sergeant. Interviewer: A sergeant, yes. You have only got your one stripe in that picture. But you got three. Okay. And then the wedding picture. Alright. Now, let’s see if we can get that one there. There we go. Now, one miscellaneous question while I think of it: did the Marine Corps have limits on how long your hair could be? Did they make women cut their hair or just…? Veteran: I think it had to be above the shoulder. But they were very strict at first, you know? What the women wore and the hat was designed by…I wish I could tell you the name…Something like Knox or, you know, isn’t there… Interviewer: But by a fashion designer or…? Veteran: Well, they really had a nice uniform. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Well, all of this makes for a very good story, so I am just going to close here and thank you for taking the time to share it today. Veteran: Well, I’ll thank you for spending the time and coming. Interviewer: Alright. (01:14:33) �36 On file at the Women in Military Service For America Memorial: Poster: �37 United States Marine Corps Women's Reserve: Brother and sister newspaper announcement • Sep 1942: �38 Immunization card • Jun 29, 1943: �39 Tribute paid to Women Marine Corps • 1944: �40 I'm in the Marine Corps: �41 Moving into the new barracks at Henderson Hall • 1943: �42 Rita E Vogler • 1943: �43 Farwell parade for Gen Waller 1943-1944: �44 Franciscan Monastery • Aug 13, 1944: �45 All American kids! • 1944: �46 Rita in DC • Aug 1944: �47 Sightseeing in DC • Aug 13, 1944: A night out • 1944: �48 Rita and Nancy Saunders • 1944: �49 Dinner out with my pals • 1944: Fooling around • 1943: �50 On the base • 1943: 1943: �51 1944: �52 When one of your Marine Corps buddies has a brother at Annapolis! • 1944: Sightseeing in Annapolis, MD • 1944: �53 Apr 10, 1945: Enjoying a lunch out • 1944: �54 Mar 1945: �55 Father Bernard and me • 1945: Fr. Bernard knew a brother of a girl in this group. He brought us all together for a casual afternoon to socialize. • 1945: �56 Honolulu • 1945: 1945: �57 The day I would meet my future husband at this wedding • 1945: �58 Leaving the wedding: �59 Honorable Discharge • Nov 16, 1945: �60 United States Marine Corps Women's Reserve: �61 Our Wedding Picture 11/27/45: �62 After discharge Bob and I attended Detroit Commercial College • 1946: I attended Schoolcraft College to get my certification as an Occupational Therapy Assistant • Jul 25, 1969: �63 Associate degree in General Studies • Aug 15, 1974: I continued my education at Madonna College getting a BA in Social Science • May 5, 1977: �64 I live at Botsford Commons - Farmington Hills, MI now. Here are a few of our resident veterans that gathered to mark Veteran's Day: �65 My Marine insignia pin • 1943: �66 Women's Military Memorial: � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context AdamsR2357V Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adams, Rita Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-06 Title A name given to the resource Adams, Rita (Interview transcript and video), 2021 Description An account of the resource Rita (Vogler) Adams was born in Wheeling, West Virginia, on February 7th, 1922. She grew up during the Great Depression. She lived in Wheeling until the age of 21. Rita attended high school at a girls’ private school, which she graduated from in 1940. After high school, Rita worked at a telephone company for 2 years. She then enlisted in the Marine Corps on April 14th, 1943 during World War 2. She completed her basic training at Hunter College in New York City, New York. After completing her training, Rita was assigned to work in an office at Marine headquarters in Arlington, Virginia. After 19 months in her position in Arlington, Virginia, she volunteered to be sent to work at Pearl Harbor in Honolulu, Hawaii. Prior to being sent to Honolulu, Rita was sent to train for 6 weeks in San Diego, California, to ensure that she was able to swim well and was physically fit. Her husband, Robert Adams, was in the Army, and she first met him while they were both stationed in Hawaii. Rita was honorably discharged from the military in 1945 after World War 2 ended, at which point she was a sergeant. Rita and Robert were married on November 27th, 1945. After leaving the service in 1945, Rita eventually attended 2 years of business college in Detroit, Michigan. She then completed training at Schoolcraft College to become an occupational therapy assistant. Rita later attended Madonna College, where she earned her bachelor’s degree in social science. She worked as a substitute teacher in schools in Livonia, Michigan, towards the end of her career. Rita currently lives in Farmington Hills, Michigan. Note: This video has images of photos and documents embedded it that help to illustrate different parts of her story. The images are from her personal collection. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource George, Amy M. (Interviewer) Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States—History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945—Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ad7948ea59c2c8b16eaa98081885a04b.pdf 1800afa77334cac1623d4cd7ed0b8b8c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Panama Era – Operation Just Cause John Adkins 05:30 Introduction (00:30)              Growing up, John had two sisters and one brother. Prior to his enlistment, he went to school and worked some part-time jobs. John chose to join the United States Army because it was something that he had always wanted to do and also because he could not find a good job. It was a growing experience. He remembers the friendships that were started while in the service, and he enjoyed the jobs that he was able to do and the people and places he met and saw along the way. John served during the conflict in Panama. He was there for two weeks and when the conflict ended he was stationed at Fort Polk, Louisiana. (02:25) While away, he was not able to communicate back home with his family. He has maintained quite a few friendships with people that he served with. When John first entered the service, his training lasted for nine months. The first six months was difficult and intense. After that first six months, he began training to drive fuel trucks, which was enjoyable. John’s grandfather was in the Air Force and then switched over to the Army and he also had two uncles in the Army. Some important life lessons that he learned were to be respectful to others and to be neat. (04:30) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adkins, John (Interview outline), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adkins, John Description An account of the resource John joined the United States Army and spent nine months in training. He became a fuel truck driver, and eventually spent two weeks in Panama in support of Operation Just Cause in 1989. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Wisdom, Alaina (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-05-27 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context AdkinsJ1494V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives