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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veteran’s History Project
World War II
James Clark 2

Interview Length: (01:28:01:00)
Before the Battle of the Bulge: December 15th (00:00:35:00)
 At the beginning of the Battle of the Bulge in December 1944, Clark was serving with
592nd Field Artillery Battalion’s medical detachment which had been stationed in
Laudesfeld, Germany, a little town just over three miles west of the Siegfried Line, since
Dec. 11th (00:00:35:00)
 On Dec. 15th, the day before the attack, the battalion still remained in Laudesfeld and
there had not been much activity as a far as combat was concerned; the soldiers would
occasionally hear an air-burst artillery shell a few miles away but that was usually at a
crossroads (00:01:22:00)
o Clark’s only concern was that he was a jeep driver who went back and forth to
visit headquarters in St. Vith, Belgium to get supplies and pick up soldiers from
the 331st Medical Battalion’s clearinghouse (00:01:44:00)
 If Clark’s battalion had any sick soldiers that their own medical
detachment could not take care of, then the soldiers were sent back to the
331st for treatment (00:02:06:00)
 The situation of being at one of the targeted crossroads when a German
shell came in was always on Clark’s mind when he drove to the different
locations (00:02:23:00)
 When Clark’s division moved into the area on Dec. 11th, they replaced the 2nd Infantry
Division man for man and took over their position, meaning everything was already set
for the incoming division (00:02:32:00)
o The soldiers did not have to worry too much about in terms of where they were
going to be staying or what they would be doing, although they had to make
adjustments for whatever came up (00:02:42:00)
o The battalion aid station was in a real nice farmhouse and the soldiers were pretty
comfortable at the time (00:02:56:00)
 On Dec. 15th, Clark had gone into St. Vith because the battalion surgeon was concerned
at the number of trench foot cases amongst the soldiers (00:03:07:00)
o While the soldiers had been in England awaiting transport to the front, they had
received new uniforms and combat boots; although the boots were comfortable
and nicer than what the soldiers had before, they had not been treated to be waterresistant (00:03:21:00)
 As well, the soldiers were supposed to have overshoes for winter combat
but they never received them (00:03:52:00)
o The surgeon began sending Clark to into St. Vith just about every day to see if
there was the possibility of getting overshoes or extra socks for the soldiers to
change into (00:04:01:00)

�





o On the 15th, Clark did not have any casualties or sick soldiers to bring in, it was
just him on the road (00:04:16:00)
Although there were no posted speed limits, the soldiers still did not travel too slow in a
jeep; in the particular area where the battalion was stationed, the roads were pretty good
and many were hard surface roads (00:04:27:00)
o The route Clark had to take to get to St. Vith was around twenty miles and it took
him around forty minutes to get to the town (00:04:44:00)
On the 15th, Clark only made one trip into St. Vith (00:05:03:00)
o The battalion mess began serving coffee and food around seven in the morning
and after eating breakfast, Clark got into his jeep and drove to St. Vith
(00:05:11:00)
o Laudesfeld was in a pocket off the main route and Clark had to actually go
towards the front to go back to St. Vith; he had a choice of either going south or
north, although each route was around an equal distance (00:05:40:00)
 When he got away from the front, Clark could go back to St. Vith, which
was actually was nearly directly due west from where the battalion was
deployed (00:06:17:00)
o On the 15th, Clark decided to take the “Andler” route that took him through the
German town of Auw, which was around two miles away from Laudesfeld, and
the Belgian towns of Andler and Schönberg; from Schönberg, Clark took the road
back to St. Vith, which was about five miles away (00:06:35:00)
 Schönberg was a fair-sized town with around one thousand people but the
rest of the settlements were farm villages with around two or three
hundred people in them (00:06:57:00)
 At that point, the area was mostly pasture land on each side of the road
with occasional pockets of fir trees; along some the ridges where it was
more difficult to farm, the fir forests were much thicker (00:07:10:00)
o Up until the 15th, the soldiers had not seen the sun for ten days; although it had
snowed on the 10th and 11th when the soldiers first arrived, the snow packed down
because the temperature would be at or above freezing and there would be a lot of
fog in the area in the morning (00:07:31:00)
 The fog would eventually lift later in the day to the point that the soldiers
could see about two or three hundred feet and at night, the temperature
would drop back down to around freezing (00:07:55:00)
 The change in temperature caused a lot of the problems with trench foot
because the soldiers were unable to keep their feet dry; as well, the
temperature was cold enough that the soldiers have trouble with blood
circulation (00:08:15:00)
o When he got to St. Vith on the 15th, Clark discovered that they did not have any
overshoes or extra socks (00:08:30:00)
 Clark was usually in St. Vith around lunch time and he would go into the
mess for a bowl of soup but on that day, he decided to just turn around and
head back to the battalion at ten o’clock in the morning (00:08:38:00)
On the road from Schönberg into St. Vith was positioned what the men had nicknamed a
“Long Tom”, a heavy-duty, long-range artillery piece, that was manned by the 333rd Field

�Artillery Battalion, which happened to be comprised of all African-American soldiers
(00:08:55:00)
o When he went by, Clark could tell by the size of the gun that it could make a large
blast and the first time he drove by, the soldiers manning the gun somehow
realizing Clark was a “rookie”, simulated a firing sequence for the gun
(00:09:17:00)
o Someone prepared the lanyard while everyone else opened their mouths and put
their fingers in their ears; Clark slammed on the brakes and did the same thing,
which caused the other soldiers to merely laugh at him (00:09:39:00)
o When Clark drove past the gun on the 15th going into St. Vith, the soldiers simply
smiled and waved at him (00:09:52:00)
o On the way back to the 592nd on the 15th, Clark had just approached the Long
Tom’s emplacement, the fog had lifted to increase visibility, when all the artillery
soldiers dove into their foxholes (00:10:06:00)
 Clark initially thought they were pulling another joke on him but when he
heard the roar of an airplane, he realized that they thought they were under
attack (00:10:21:00)
 After slamming on the brakes, Clark rolled underneath as a German plane
came down at about one hundred and fifty feet off the ground
(00:10:30:00)
 The plane did not shoot but instead went the length of the valley
before pulling up into the clouds (00:10:43:00)
 Clark and the artillery soldiers initially stayed put, believing that the plane
would be back to do a strafing run but apparently, the plane was just a
reconnaissance/observation aircraft (00:10:49:00)
o Clark got back into the jeep, started back up the road, and about one hundred
yards away, there was another jeep pulled off to the side; the jeep had red crosses
on it and there was a Red Cross nurse in it (00:11:05:00)
 Clark stopped next to the jeep and said that civilians were not supposed to
be in the area and asked what she was doing there (00:11:26:00)
 The nurse replied that she had a brother serving with one of the units
attached to the 423rd Infantry Regiment, she was going to see him, and the
next day, she was going to make a cake to bring back to him for their
birthday because they were twins (00:11:44:00)
 Clark told the nurse that she was only around three miles away from were
there could be combat activity and suggested she think the idea over but
the nurse simply said there was a headquarters ahead and they could tell
her where her brother was serving (00:12:09:00)
 Clark said there were actually three headquarters ahead but her brother
might be in a foxhole because the entire area was under observation by the
Germans and every so often, they would send in an artillery shell
(00:12:26:00)
 The nurse said she was going to continue on anyway and Clark suggested
that because he was going the same way, she could follow behind him,
although she did not seem too receptive to Clark’s suggestions
(00:12:51:00)

�

o The experience with the Red Cross nurse bothered Clark because he figured that
someone else must have seen the nurse because he knew that she could not have
gotten back the next day because of the German attack (00:13:16:00)
 It bothered him for sixty years but coincidentally, Clark came into contact
with the daughter of a man who served at the same time, although in a
different battalion (00:13:32:00)
 As it turned out, the daughter’s father was at the same outpost as
the nurse’s brother and they were close friends; at some point, the
father had written a letter describing when a Red Cross nurse
visited their position one day (00:14:05:00)
 When Clark met with the daughter, she had just gotten a CD a
woman had produced a documentary about being a Red Cross
nurse in the Battle of the Bulge and who happened to be the same
nurse that Clark had met (00:14:54:00)
 In the nurse’s documentary, it was implied that she went back and
saw her brother again on Dec. 16th, but Clark knew that he brother
was killed early that morning (00:15:33:00)
Once Clark got back to the battalion’s position, it was still early afternoon and when he
got there, he found that the medical detachment had orders to paint their helmets with a
white circle and red cross (00:16:39:00)
o The 331st sent down the stencils and paint to the detachment, so the soldiers
painted the white circles on but had to let the helmets dry over night, so they
planned to paint the cross on the next day (00:17:04:00)
o Although Clark painted the white circle on his helmet, he never got around the
painting the red cross, so he went the rest of the war with only a white circle on
his helmet (00:17:24:00)
 He did wear a red cross armband but nobody ever bothered him to ask
what the white circle on the helmet was for (00:17:38:00)
o At the same time, Clark had begun repairing and putting a thatch roof on the
outhouse for the aid station and he finished that in the afternoon (00:17:48:00)

The Battle of the Bulge: December 16th (00:19:55:00)
 The German attack began early on Dec. 16th; at around five thirty in the morning, the
whole area erupted as part of an artillery barrage the Germans had sent all along the
Allied line (00:19:55:00)
o However, the barrage where the 592nd was located only lasted about five or ten
minutes at the most but the soldiers could hear the barrage continuing against
positions further away; nevertheless, the concussions were close enough to knock
the blinds off the windows of the aid station farmhouse (00:20:05:00)
o Luckily, the battalion did not suffer any casualties from the barrage (00:20:33:00)
o However, because the battalion suffered no casualties, the soldiers thought the
Germans were merely trying to scare them with the artillery fire and it was just a
big false alarm (00:20:39:00)
 The night before the attack, Clark was told that the next day, he was supposed to go to a
pillbox on the Siegfried Line the 592nd’s forward observers were using because there
were some trench foot problems he needed to check (00:20:59:00)

�






o On the morning of the 16th and after the artillery barrage had finished, Clark got
his breakfast and prepared to go to the pillbox with the an officer, Captain
Richmond, who was going to lead the party to the pillboxes (00:21:16:00)
o However, word came down that the captain said Clark did not have to go because
the commanders had decided it would be better if they just took replacements up
and brought the soldiers with trench foot back to the aide station (00:21:25:00)
Instead, Clark was told by the medical officer to go back to St. Vith and see if he could
get some overshoes or extra socks; as well, two soldiers who had been treated by the
331st for trench foot in St. Vith were ready to come back to the battalion (00:21:46:00)
Clark started back for St. Vith except that when he reached Auw, there was a big shell
crater in the middle of the intersection and several others nearby (00:22:04:00)
o Captain Richmond was in the jeep along with the replacements for the forward
observers ahead of Clark and when he made a turn to head towards the front line,
Clark turned in the opposite direction to go back to St. Vith (00:22:19:00)
o Clark did not know it at the time but a few minutes later, Captain Richmond and
his driver were captured because the German forces had already advanced into
Auw, although Clark never saw them (00:22:38:00)
When Clark got into Andler, the soldiers from 333rd manning the “Long Tom” artillery
were preparing to move out, which made Clark think that something big was going to be
happening and those soldiers knew what it was (00:22:52:00)
o The traffic on the road began to get heavier with service trucks and ammo trucks
heading in one direction and other trucks headed in the opposite direction,
towards the front; some of the equipment included the heavier pieces of
machinery that could not operate in close quarters with the enemy (00:23:08:00)
o However, Clark did not come under any artillery fire until he got into St. Vith;
although there was nothing while he was in the town, the soldiers in St. Vith said
they had been shelled by a German railroad gun since the early morning
(00:23:37:00)
Once in St. Vith, Clark picked up the two recovered trench foot soldiers who were
headed back to the 592nd but before they headed back, Clark went into the mess hall at
the 331st for a bowl of soup (00:24:00:00)
o While he was in the mess hall, two medics from the 590th Field Artillery
Battalion, which was located close to the 592nd, were also there; Clark knew all
the medical personnel in the division’s other artillery battalions because he had
been a driver for a surgeon who, at one point, was the only surgeon for all the
artillery battalions (00:24:21:00)
o The two medics were worried and when they saw Clark, they asked him how he
got into St. Vith and he said through Auw (00:24:45:00)
 Because the 590th was stationed near the town of Bleialt, the soldiers could
take a road from Bleialt to Schönberg and get into St. Vith that route
(00:25:00:00)
 The medics said they had taken the Bleialt route and had ran into a
German patrol; the Germans jumped into the road and tried to flag the
men down by the medic who was driving hit the accelerator (00:25:10:00)

�





As they went past the patrol, the driver reached out and managed
to grab the weapon away from one of the Germans, which he
showed to Clark (00:25:24:00)
o The medics had planned to get something to eat but when Clark said he had come
through Auw and not had a problem, they decided to forgo waiting to eat and
leave early (00:25:36:00)
Once he finished eating, Clark got the other two soldiers to head back and decided that
instead of taking the road towards Bleialt, he would go back the way he came, through
Auw (00:25:56:00)
o The traffic on the road remained heavy all the way to Schönberg, which had a
busy intersection because there was a river crossing (00:26:08:00)
o The trio continued to Andler, which was only a few miles outside of Schönberg,
and once outside of Andler on the road towards Auw, there was a reconnaissance
vehicle from the 14th Cavalry Group, which was on the division’s northern flank;
Clark could not see the markings on the vehicle but that was the unit he assumed
it was from (00:26:26:00)
 An officer stopped Clark and asked where they were going; when Clark
said Laudesfeld by way of Auw, the officer said from what they
understood, there was some activity near Auw and if Clark could not make
it through, would he come back and report to them (00:27:07:00)
o The trio continued cautiously towards Auw while watching everything on both
sides of the road; the terrain was fairly open near Auw but near Bleialt, where the
two medics from the 590th had their incident with the German patrol, it was
heavily forested on both side of the road (00:27:30:00)
o When the three had just gotten to within sight of a church built on a hill, they
looked into a ditch and saw a GI laying in the ditch with a rifle; when Clark asked
what he was doing, the soldier said he was an engineer and there was a column of
German armor in Auw that had been there since morning (00:27:51:00)
 The soldier said the column had not tried to advance towards Andler yet
but every once in awhile, a motorized gun poked itself out from behind a
corner before retreating back (00:28:27:00)
o After Clark talked with the soldier, he decided they were not going back in that
direction, so they turned around and went back towards Andler; however, the
reconnaissance vehicle had moved, so Clark could not report what he had learned
from the soldier (00:28:41:00)
The three continued back towards Schönberg then took the road towards Bleialt because
Clark did not know any other route to get back to the battalion (00:28:56:00)
o There were some ammo trucks parked along the side of the road just before
border crossing into Germany and when Clark asked what the situation was, the
soldiers with the ammo train said they had been waiting for quite awhile; there
had been a German patrol in the area and while the American engineers and
infantry forces took care of them, the ammo trains was waiting (00:29:08:00)
 Clark decided that if the ammo trucks could not go, he was not going to go
but around that time, someone came running down, saying that the route
was clear; however, Clark decided he did not want to be part of the ammo
train, so he went out ahead of them (00:29:50:00)

�





o When he went through, Clark did not have any problem; there was not an MP at
the crossroads like there normally was but that as the only thing that was out of
place and different (00:30:08:00)
 Whether the Germans let him through to wait for bigger game or not he
does not know but the ammo train behind him did not make it through;
they were attacked by the Germans (00:30:17:00)
Within half a mile of the crossroads was the 590th’s aid station and Clark knew everyone
who worked at it; the battalion surgeon was there and the aid station was troubled with
casualties (00:30:34:00)
o The workers asked Clark if he had any spare supplies because they were running
out of bandages and everything else; when Clark went into St. Vith, he also
picked up extra supplies because the 592nd’s battalion surgeon thought it would be
a good idea to have extras (00:31:09:00)
o As far as Clark knew, the 592nd did not have any casualties, so he decided to leave
the extra supplies with the 590th; if the 592nd ever needed more, then Clark could
go back to St. Vith to get them (00:31:20:00)
Clark and the two soldiers started down the road to Laudesfeld but before they got there,
there was a motorized anti-aircraft battery on the side of the road being used against the
German armor in Auw, which had tried to come down the road (00:31:34:00)
o An officer from the 589th, which had had its headquarters just beyond the turn-off
Clark took to get to Laudesfeld, was directing fire from the anti-aircraft battery
and had apparently driven the German armor back enough so he could go back to
the 589th’s original position (00:32:11:00)
 The 589th had to abandon their original position because the German
armor had gotten close enough that they could not accurately attack it with
their gun (00:32:36:00)
o After the officer hopped on Clark’s hood, Clark hit the accelerator and they went
to the 589th’s headquarters, where the officer took command of the 105 mm
howitzers there and that was the last Clark saw of him (00:32:46:00)
The trio hurried back to Laudesfeld because everything was breaking all around and
Clark did not know what to expect (00:33:03:00)
o When they got into Laudesfeld, Clark dropped the other two soldiers off at their
headquarters and went back to the aid station, which still did not have any
casualties, although he did notice that the thatch roof over the outhouse that he
had spent the previous afternoon working on was blown off (00:33:20:00)
o By the time Clark got back to the aid station, it was around two-thirty, three
o’clock in the afternoon and around this time, the soldiers heard an artillery shell
come over and explode fairly close to their position (00:33:44:00)
 Someone yelled that the round had hit the service battery’s cook shack, so
Clark grabbed one of the litters by the door while another man grabbed the
other and they both ran towards the cook shack (00:34:01:00)
 When the two men got there, the cook shack had been pretty well blown
apart and there were two men who had been fixing a kettle of chocolate
pudding when the shell came through the roof and exploded in the
pudding, blowing fragments everywhere (00:34:15:00)

�



Clark had somewhat of an advantage because while he had been stationed
at Fort Dix in New Jersey, he had worked in laboratory and helped
perform autopsies, so he had seen mutilated bodies (00:34:54:00)
 However, the men who were helping him were only kids and some
of them had never even seen a cadaver; as well, one of Clark’s
helpers had been a friend of one of the men who had died and
Clark could see that it had upset him (00:35:09:00)
 They eventually took the bodies and put them in a shed behind the aid
station before (00:35:57:00)
Around this time, the soldiers received word that there were a lot of casualties at “A”
Battery’s machine gun post, which was on the other side of a hill from the aid station and
almost at the division of the 598th’s position and the 592nd’s (00:36:06:00)
o A sergeant and Clark went to the truck the detachment used as an ambulance,
loaded all the litters and drove up the hillside (00:36:41:00)
o When they got to the top of the hill, there was not any shooting going on, so the
two men stopped the car a little ways away from the machine gun position, which
was a pit four or five deep and twelve feet square that the 2nd Infantry Division
had covered with logs (00:37:01:00)
 The bunker even had a door opening at the rear and a window facing out
towards Auw (00:37:26:00)
o When Clark and the sergeant arrived, there were six casualties and two other
medics in the bunker; the medics who were already there had the wounded pretty
well taken care of and were attempting to bring in another casualty (00:37:37:00)
 The Germans had a couple of self-propelled guns that would come out
from behind a church six or seven hundred yards away to fire at the
machine gun, which was outside the bunker (00:37:53:00)
 One of the soldier’s officers was killed while trying to get a bazooka close
enough to destroy the German armor with the help of some other soldiers
and the medics wanted to recover his body and help the other soldiers,
who had only minor wounds (00:38:12:00)
o The casualties in the bunker had been pretty well taken care of in terms of
stopping the flow of blood and one casualty needed a splint because he had
broken his arm (00:38:53:00)
o The biggest problem was morphine because the Army supplied each medic with
only a handful of syringes to use and the medics were all out; Clark and the
sergeant had brought more and they were able to sedate everyone and quiet them
down (00:39:06:00)
o Around that time, the machine gun outside the bunker began firing but Clark told
them to stop because they needed to get the wounded out and firing the machine
gun would draw enemy attention; however, the machine gunner said the German
armor was coming back and he needed to cover the soldiers who were out there
with the bazooka (00:39:25:00)
 The machine gunner continued firing and sure enough, within a couple of
minutes, a shell hit the bunker but did not penetrate (00:39:38:00)
 Clark thought the German were merely finding the range and a large round
would be coming, so everyone ducked down; Clark was working a patient

�

next to sergeant, who had just began to duck down when the next shell
came (00:39:54:00)
 However, the shell came through the window, passed between Clark and
the sergeant but did explode until it managed to get out the door opening,
which saved everyone in the bunker, although the sergeant was nicked
with glass and Clark’s face was covered in wood splinters, glass and a few
shell fragments (00:40:18:00)
 The biggest problem was that the explosion broke Clark’s glasses and
after that, he was fumbling around for just about everything (00:40:49:00)
o Clark and the sergeant had the choice of staying at the position because it was
almost dark or not; the sergeant said that although they had a vehicle with the red
cross painted on it, that did not seem to deter the Germans, so he suggested he and
Clark leave and come back after dark to pick up the wounded (00:41:41:00)
 The rules said that a medic had the stay with casualties if they were under
fire or in a position where they were apt to be captured by the enemy
(00:41:40:00)
 There was another medic from the 589th who had come over
because a couple of the casualties were from the 589th and he had a
splinter in his rear that was painful and made it hard to sit down;
this medic said he would stay because he did not think he could
walk because the splinter was causing too much pain
(00:41:54:00)
o So, Clark and the sergeant crawled out of the position and back past where the
ambulance was parked; however, Clark does not remember any gunfire, so he got
up and started walking under the assumption that if he was going to get hit, the let
it happen (00:42:58:00)
 Clark walked into the woods and followed a fence line back to the aid
station, leaving the ambulance where it was parked (00:43:23:00)
 The sergeant continued crawling, so Clark was the first one to get back to
the aid station (00:43:27:00)
When Clark got back, he went into the aid station and told the leader of the medical
detachment what had happened; as well, Clark decided to alert headquarters that there
were some casualties that they would not be able to get out until after dark (00:43:34:00)
o Clark went to the headquarters building, where the colonel and his staff were
studying maps and trying to get the various forms of communication to work, and
made the announcement that he had just gotten back from the “A” Battery
machine gun outpost and they had six or seven wounded there that they had to
wait until dark to get them out (00:43:50:00)
 Nobody said anything to Clark, so he turned around and went back to the
aid station (00:44:40:00)
o It got dark soon after Clark got back to the aid station, so two men were able to go
and recover the casualties (00:44:58:00)
 Nobody paid too much attention to Clark but someone eventually
suggested that he fix some hot chocolate, so Clark made a big batch but he
does not recall what happened for the next two or three hours, although he
did find his replacement glass (00:45:21:00)

�

Around eleven o’clock, the soldiers received an alert saying that the 592nd was going to
be withdrawing from their positions at midnight, so the soldiers needed to load up and
prepare to move by then (00:46:07:00)
o There were around ten wounded in the aid station by this time and the weapons
carrier the medics used as an ambulance could only hold six stretchers but there
was not room for anything else (00:46:21:00)
o The personnel had to ride somewhere, so Clark suggested to the leader of the
medical detachment that they commandeer a truck from one of the battery
headquarters to carry the wounded in (00:46:47:00)
o The soldiers eventually started loading the truck with the wounded while Clark
was busy loading his jeep trailer with supplies (00:47:15:00)
 Apart from the wounded, there were nine medical personnel at the aid
station plus five medics with the gun crews and they all needed space for
their duffel bags, so they ended up leaving the two dead bodies in the shed
behind the aid station (00:47:32:00)
 While Clark was loading the jeep, he found the detachment commander’s
footlocker with his dress uniforms in it; Clark did not have enough space
to load the equipment from the aid station, so he took the footlocker out
and put it with the bodies in the shed (00:48:12:00)
o All the equipment that did not fit in the weapons carrier went into the jeep trailer,
which ended up being more than was normally carried in the trailer (00:48:39:00)
 Although the temperature had stayed just about at freezing, there had not
been much of a frost before the snow came, so everything was a sea of
mud; the jeep had been parked on a driveway just off the road through
Laudesfeld, it too was mud, and Clark found that he could not move the
trailer because it was loaded so full of equipment (00:49:54:00)
o Clark moved the jeep out of the way and went to the truck with the wounded in it
to see if they could hook the trailer to it (00:49:27:00)
o In the mean time, Clark had pulled some of the equipment out of the jeep and a
signal lantern with a toggle switch for white, red, or green light fell out and turned
on, sending a beam of light into the darkness (00:49:39:00)
 Someone yelled to shoot whoever had the light on, so Clark quickly threw
his overcoat over the lantern and worked with the switch, trying to turn it
off while periodically checking under the overcoat to see if the lantern was
off (00:50:20:00)
 However, Clark could not get the lantern to turn off, so he left his overcoat
on it and stomped it down into the mud until the lenses were covered over
with mud (00:50:35:00)
o When he had the truck back up to hook up with the trailer, the trailer’s tongue was
not designed to hook onto a truck’s trailer hitch (00:50:58:00)
 It was going to be closed quarters to hook to two together, so Clark got a
hold of the assistant truck driver and placed him in a spot so he could slap
his hand and they would not talk back and forth (00:51:11:00)
 Once Clark had the trailer hitch connected, he was supposed to
slap the assistant driver’s hand and he would run up to tell the
driver to stop backing up (00:51:29:00)

�



Clark got the trailer hitched but when he tapped the assistant and the
driver stopped backing the truck up, the rear wheels began to sink,
pinching Clark between the back of the truck and the trailer (00:51:38:00)
 That was the last thing Clark remembered until he came to and he does not
know who or how they got him out (00:51:59:00)
o They had placed Clark in the back of the truck with the other wounded, although
he could not see anything because it was pitch black (00:52:07:00)
 Clark was close to the tailgate and when he looked out, he could see flares
that the Germans were firing and machine gun tracer bullets going
between the truck Clark was in and the next passing vehicle, which made
Clark assume that either the engineers or infantry were covering the
592nd’s withdrawal, although nobody else in the truck seemed too worried
about the situation (00:52:18:00)
As the trucks continued, Clark assumed they were going towards the engineer’s cut-off, a
cut-off from the main road bypassing the crossroads; because the cut-off was completely
surrounded by forest, the Germans would only have a few artillery rounds scattered
through the trees (00:52:54:00)
o The column did take the cut-off, although Clark later found out that one of the
batteries, “A” Battery, missed the turn and ended up encountering some German
forces (00:53:12:00)
o Clark fell asleep again and he vaguely remembers some voices and blackout
flashlights rustling the people in the truck; he assumed they were in St. Vith but
he did not know what was going on (00:53:27:00)

The Battle of the Bulge: December 17th &amp; 18th (00:53:56:00)
 The next morning, Clark woke up and he was all alone in the back of the truck
(00:53:56:00)
 As Clark understands it, it was about two o’clock in the morning when they unload the
rest of the wounded from the truck (00:54:07:00)
o Clark was left in the truck because he had no dressing on him, meaning they did
not know he was a casualty and because he had his red cross armband on, they
probably thought he was just hitching a ride with the wounded (00:54:16:00)
 Clark did not really know what injuries he had except that he could tell his face was all
roughed up and bloody, and there was something wrong with his ear; Clark does not
remember it being particularly painful but nevertheless, he did not try touching any of the
wounds (00:54:37:00)
 What woke Clark up on the 17th was an outgoing artillery barrage (00:55:16:00)
o The 592nd had withdrawn to a position they had occupied when they first arrived
in St. Vith before going up to the line; however, the unit only planned on staying
in the position temporarily until they received orders to go to a new position and
set up for a counter-attack (00:55:26:00)
o One of the guns was in a position to fire and just after daybreak, an observation
plane was flying, although because it was foggy and the flight ceiling was low,
the pilot had to fly at around two hundred feet (00:55:53:00)

�



The plane was flying over a column of German infantry and armor just
getting into Schönberg while directing artillery fire; the artillery fire did
manage to knock out the column (00:56:11:00)
o Another gun began firing and when Clark asked what that gun was firing for, the
commander of the medical detachment, who was standing nearby, said they
wanted to destroy any equipment they had left behind at their old position in
Laudesfeld (00:56:32:00)
 Clark thought he ought to say something, so he told the commander that
he had put the captain’s footlocker in the shed with the two bodies because
Clark assumed they were going to be right back to the position
(00:56:49:00)
 The captain did not say much but his face got all red and said that the
uniforms were for his leave in Paris but he did not think he was going to
need them for awhile (00:57:04:00)
o When the captain looked at Clark again, he suggested that Clark go in and have
someone fix him up; Clark had gone a long time without treatment and the captain
said he would need a tetanus shot along with probably a treatment of penicillin to
keep infection out (00:57:16:00)
Clark waited for a ride that took him to the 331st Medical Battalion, where they had a
hospital tent set up to receive all the casualties but by now, they too were taking their
tents down and preparing to fall back (00:57:39:00)
o They did not even look at Clark; instead, they took his wounded tag, wrote a note
saying he had been transferred, and told him that all their ambulances were being
used to transport wounded back (00:58:04:00)
o The railroad gun was getting too hot for them and they were moving the hospital
back, so they would transfer Clark to the 13th Field Hospital, which happened to
have an open ambulance there (00:58:24:00)
o They took Clark over to where the ambulance was and although the ambulance
was the 13th Field Hospital, the driver said the hospital was moving as well and he
could not take Clark there; however, the driver said he knew of a field hospital in
Malmédy and could take Clark there (00:58:41:00)
 The ambulance driver seemed calm throughout the entire situation and
Clark discovered that the 13th Field Hospital had been activated in North
Africa, fought through Sicily, Italy, and every place else and had been
assigned to the St. Vith area, but like everyone else, they had not had
much to do while the 2nd Infantry was there (00:59:09:00)
 However, now they were under fire too and were planning to
relocate some place else (00:59:31:00)
 The driver was experienced and had been in the area long enough that he
knew all the back roads (00:59:39:00)
o Clark got into the ambulance last because only one seat left remained, although
Clark cannot figure out why the ambulance did not have an assistant driver; every
vehicle in the Army had an assistant driver but he cannot remember there being
either an assistant driver or patient in the passenger seat (00:59:49:00)
o The ambulance was a standard infantry ambulance and it was able to seat six
soldiers, including Clark; each soldier fell into the category of “walking

�

wounded”, which meant they were able to use the benches in the rear of the
ambulance (01:00:28:00)
 Of the six soldiers in the ambulance, Clark remembers that two were
German prisoners who had been wounded but cannot remember whether
the other three soldiers were from the 106th Infantry, the 28th Infantry, or
the 14th Cavalry because each unit would have been handled by the 331st
Medical Battalion (01:01:24:00)
o During the trip, none of the occupants in the ambulance talked and Clark figures
that they were all concerned about their own safety (01:01:55:00)
When the ambulance started out from St. Vith, the traffic was a mess; despite not being
very large, St. Vith was a hub for all the roads, railroads, and lines of communication in
the Ardennes area (01:02:17:00)
o St. Vith was key to the German offensive because they knew that just beyond St.
Vith to the north and west, the Allies had stockpiled gasoline and supplies for the
jump off to invade the Roudan, which was planned to occur just a few days after
the German attack began (01:02:39:00)
o The German attack plans had them taking St. Vith by the second day of the attack
and because it was the second day, there was increased pressure by the German
forces on all sides to take the town (01:03:01:00)
 Meanwhile, everyone in the American army was either getting into a
position to attack the Germans or coming into the area in relief;
supposedly by this time, the 7th and 9th Armored Divisions were already
enacting rescue operations for any American regiments cut off by the
German attack (01:03:14:00)
o Clark had a seat where he could see out of the back windows, windshield, and the
driver’s side window (01:03:46:00)
o After traveling about fifteen to twenty minutes, the ambulance had made only a
mile or so progress down one of the major highways leading out of St. Vith; the
highway was a two lane, hard-trop road and fir trees grew on both sides,
sometimes up to twenty or thirty feet of the shoulders (01:04:06:00)
 Although Clark tried to keep track of where they were going, the
ambulance was traveling through an area that he had never been through
before since the 592nd had been in St. Vith (01:04:47:00)
o Eventually, the ambulance passed through a very attractive village with a resortstyle hotel and café; it looked like a nice place to visit if Clark ever got back to the
area and by then, Clark was simply enjoying the ride (01:05:00:00)
o Pretty soon, the ambulance driver, who had explained that he knew the area well
and would get the soldiers to a hospital, stopped the ambulance and Clark could
see through the windshield that there was a column of jeeps and trucks pulled off
to the side of the road (01:05:29:00)
 The last jeep in line had an ID on its rear bumper that Clark had never
seen before, for the 235th Field Artillery OBS Battalion; Clark later
discovered that OBS stood for “Observation” and the 235th was the
observation unit for the corps-level artillery units (01:05:56:00)
 The driver of the last jeep in the column was in the center of the road and
flagged down the ambulance; after talking with the jeep driver, the

�

ambulance driver turned his head and said there were apparently German
tanks up ahead and they might have to take a detour because they were
close to the field hospital in Malmédy (01:06:42:00)
 At that time, someone shot the jeep driver, so the ambulance driver threw
the ambulance in reverse and got out of there (01:07:06:00)
o As they drove away, Clark looked out the back window and was about to suggest
doing something for the wounded jeep driver when he saw other soldiers from the
jeep driver’s unit were coming out to attend to him (01:07:21:00)
o The ambulance started back towards St. Vith but immediately got into more
traffic; because it was Sunday morning, there was local traffic backed up from St.
Vith as well (01:07:37:00)
 Most of the Belgian towns were inhabited and those people did not want
to be caught under by the Germans for a third time, so they had loaded the
belongings onto carts and bicycles and were attempted to walk out of the
danger (01:07:49:00)
 This civilian traffic was intermingled with the military traffic attempting
to go in both directions and because it was Sunday, some Belgians were
attending church (01:08:22:00)
 In one of the villages, the soldiers even saw a funeral procession,
complete with horse-drawn hearse while in another town, there
were a wedding procession with a horse-drawn carriage for the
bride and groom (01:08:36:00)
 It was a strange time and everyone was preparing as best they saw fight
for what they believed was coming in the future (01:08:59:00)
o It took the ambulance a long time to get to the field hospital because the driver
continued to travel along back roads; Clark tried to keep a sense of the directions
and figured they were heading to the north and west (01:09:09:00)
 Around eleven o’clock / noon, the ambulance ran into an ambush column
(01:09:31:00)
o At that time, it did not take long for it to get dark in the Ardennes with the fog
(01:09:44:00)
o While they were on the back roads, Clark would see a road sign for a town that he
knew from the map as being a bigger town but the ambulance never went through
any of them (01:10:02:00)
o The driver told the soldiers that he was trying to keep them away from military
traffic because he did not want to impede any relief effort or the evacuation
system; as a result, the soldiers saw more civilian traffic as opposed to military
traffic (01:10:14:00)
 The only military vehicles the soldiers saw were supply vehicles who were
out hunting for gasoline or hauling equipment and supplies back to troops
in St. Vith (01:10:33:00)
It was after dark when the ambulance finally arrived in Eupen, Belgium, where there was
hospital and soldiers were able to unload; Clark does not recall seeing any of the other
soldiers he rode with again, although that might have been because of the blackout
conditions (01:10:46:00)

�o Everything was blackout conditions until the soldiers got into the hospital and
even then, the hospital had blackout shutters on the windows (01:11:02:00)
o They eventually took Clark into surgery, although he does not remember anything
about it (01:11:13:00)
 At some point, the staff at the hospital placed Clark in a room that served
as both recovery and pre-op because some of the fifty or so soldiers in the
room had been treated and the others had not (01:11:22:00)
o While he was in the recovery/pre-op room, Clark remembers one of the doctors or
corpsmen saying that they had sewn Clark’s ears back on and had removed
fragments of glass, wood, and metal from his face; however, the doctor/corpsman
said there might still be fragments in Clark’s face and they would not know until
the x-rays were complete (01:11:46:00)
o Clark also began receiving penicillin treatments; at that time, penicillin was
relatively new and the patients had to receive a treatment every four hours for a
certain number of days (01:12:15:00)
 Clark received the treatments for four days and each time, the treatments
were a large shot in his butt; although the treatments were painful, they did
their job because Clark never got an infection (01:12:29:00)
o The hospital staff said Clark was going to have to stay with them until he finished
the penicillin treatments (01:12:54:00)
o The hospital was in a practically new schoolhouse in Eupen but the one drawback
was all the walls of the top floor were made of glass (01:13:07:00)
 The hospital had just been set up in Eupen and was warned to expect a
large number of casualties because before then, the area had been
relatively peaceful for several months (01:13:29:00)
 A new batch of nurses had come in and Clark’s group was some of
the first casualties in the hospital because a lot of the other
casualties had been trapped and unable to evacuate (01:13:39:00)
o While Clark was in the recovery/pre-op room, others soldier began calling out to
see if anyone had information about what had happened to their units or if there
was someone else in the room that they knew (01:14:03:00)
 Clark recognized the voice of a sergeant from “A” Battery and it was the
sergeant that Clark learned the battery had missed the engineer cut-off
before Bleialt and ran into the Germans in Bleialt (01:14:15:00)
 Before the column could turn around and back in the right
direction, the sergeant and the battery commander were captured
by the Germans (01:14:33:00)
 However, in the melee of the Germans trying to stop the column
from turning around, the sergeant was able to escape but was
wounded; he eventually made it back to friendly lines and slowly
made his way to Eupen (01:14:50:00)
 The sergeant’s was the only voice that Clark recognized (01:15:24:00)
 One of the other soldiers said he had been with a group and had to play
dead while the rest of his battery was lined up in field by Germans and
machine-gunned at a crossroads outside of Malmédy (01:15:26:00)

�

Clark assumed this was the group that held them up with the OBS
Artillery Battalion (01:15:46:00)
 The next morning, the hospital staff said that two of the survivors
from the massacre had made it back to them, although they
understood that other survivors had made it to other hospitals in
the area (01:15:56:00)
o That night, Clark was one of the first soldiers to move onto the top floor of the
hospital and was one of the few patients up there (01:16:13:00)
 At midnight, the air raid sirens started sounded and when Clark asked the
corpsman working on the floor what that was all about, the corpsman said
it was the first time they had heard them (01:16:35:00)
 The corpsman said it might be just a test but although he could not
go anywhere, if Clark felt better in the stairwell, then he could go
over there (01:16:51:00)
 Clark said that he did not like all the glass windows being around
him because if the Germans did drop something, then there was
going to be a big mess (01:17:01:00)
 Clark made it over to the stairwell just as a bomb hit and took off one
corner of the building, between the school and single-story maintenance
building; there had been a jeep parked in front of the maintenance building
and when Clark looked the next morning, the bomb had blown the jeep
onto the maintenance building’s roof (01:17:19:00)
 The explosion knocked Clark’s helmet and glasses off again, but
he managed to find both (01:17:56:00)
 The glass did not bother Clark but pieces were in his cot and he did not
want to sleep in that; the corpsman on the floor said there was an air raid
shelter that no one had ever used with restored bunk beds and he
suggested that Clark go down and use them (01:18:03:00)
 The corpsman gave Clark directions to feel his way to the room in the dark
and sure enough, there were bunk beds in the room (01:18:42:00)
 It was just after midnight and Clark had not gotten much comfortable
sleep, so he was just about to doze off when he heard a bunch of female
voices (01:19:05:00)
 He heard the door opening and a whole bunch of nurses came into
the room; as they came in, Clark got out of his bed and pressed
himself up against the wall (01:19:23:00)
 Enlisted personnel were not supposed to fraternize with nurses and
this was worst possible situation for Clark; however, he still
managed to some information from the nurse’s conversations
(01:19:32:00)
o They had just arrived in the area and were eager to begin
working to take care of wounded but they did not have a lot
of wounded at the moment (01:19:46:00)
o The nurses had been stationed across the street but an
unexploded bomb had landed in their attic, so they were

�





evacuated and told to go into the air raid shelter
(01:19:58:00)
 As soon as he had a chance, Clark slid along the wall and out of the room;
once he was out of the room, he went back upstairs, shook the glass out of
his cot, and went to bed (01:20:39:00)
The next morning, the patients had a large breakfast (01:20:56:00)
o However, the hospital needed to be evacuated again because they could not
operate as everything was such a mess due to the glass and the Germans being so
close; Malmédy, where the Germans were, was not far from Eupen (01:20:58:00)
Once again, the soldiers loaded into trucks and traveled to the Belgian town of Liege,
where there was a larger hospital; Clark assumed that the hospital in Eupen was only an
evacuation hospital (01:21:17:00)
o The hospital in Liege had a large number of ward tents, with around ten soldiers
to a tent and seven to ten tents (01:21:38:00)
When the soldiers got off the trucks, they were greeted with “welcome to buzz bomb
alley”; the soldiers discovered that German V-1 rockets were coming into Liege every
hour in pairs, with the rockets ten minutes apart (01:22:01:00)
o The soldiers could see the rockets coming in and at night, they could see the
rocket’s exhaust (01:22:19:00)
o The rocket’s flew about two or three hundred feet off the ground and when their
engines shut off, then they would dive to the ground a couple of hundred feet
away (01:22:36:00)
 When the engines shut off, the rockets went “crazy” and the soldiers were
unable to tell which direction they were going to go (01:22:56:00)
o The Germans were originally launching the rockets against the Liege railyard in
the middle of the town but most were landing near the hospital on a hillside
outside the town (01:23:01:00)
 The Germans had been launching the rockets for so long that the
walkways around the tents were littered with pieces of shrapnel, both from
anti-aircraft rounds and exploded bombs (01:23:16:00)
o Clark stayed in Liege for four days to complete his penicillin treatments and every
night, the nurse of duty would stand at the door to watch for the exhaust trails
from the rockets; if the rockets were going to come close, then she would tell the
soldiers to hit the deck while she dove under her desk (01:23:35:00)
 The first time it happened, everyone got out of their beds and underneath
them but they decided that would not do anything because it was only two
layers of canvas between them and whatever came in (01:24:00:00)
 One of the other soldiers in the middle of the tent was in traction and all
the other soldiers decided that for his comfort, they were not going to dive
under their beds anymore; the nurse did all the ducking and diving for
them (01:24:22:00)
o In 1949, while Clark was in medical school at the University of Michigan, he
came down a hall one day and saw an eighteen year old blonde student dress in
European clothes, which made Clark assume he was a German (01:24:44:00)
 Clark asked the student if there was anything Clark could do for him; the
student replied that he was a German student who had been sent to U of M

�





with the express directions of learning about democracy to be part of the
new breed of politicians in Germany (01:25:08:00)
However, the student said he was not interested in politics; instead, he
wanted to be a doctor and he wondered if there was any way Clark could
arrange it so he could sit in on some classes (01:25:32:00)
 Clark said that he did not think anyone would care but he
suggested attending some of the larger lectures and he gave the
student a list of the rooms (01:25:45:00)
It turned out turned out the student was German who had grown up near
the Tyrol region in Bavaria; however, as part of the Hitler Youth program,
he joined the SS when he was twelve and when he was fourteen, he was
part of a group of mathematicians who moved in Aachen, Germany, which
was close to the Belgian border (01:26:23:00)
 The group, working with slide rules, set the guidance system and
figured the fuel capacities for the V-1 rockets fired against Liege
(01:27:07:00)
From U of M, the student went back to Germany, earned his medical
degree then returned to the United States to perform his residency, and
ended up working in the office of Clark’s family physician when he was
younger (01:27:29:00)

�</text>
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                  <text>The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veteran’s History Project
World War II
James Clark
Disc One
Interview Length: (01:57:13:00)
Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:12:00)
 Clark was born on Sept. 3rd, 1920 in a Wayne County, Michigan farmhouse
(00:00:12:00)
 When he was four, Clark’s family moved to a house in the town of Clarenceville,
Michigan; his parents had purchased some property there and the family originally lived
above a garage while they built their house (00:00:31:00)
 Clark does not remember too much about his mother because she had tuberculosis and
died when Clark was six years old (00:01:04:00)
o When Clark and his sister, who was a year older than Clark, started going to
school, their father placed their mother in a sanitarium (00:01:15:00)
o However, Clark’s father could not look after the children, so he sent them to live
with a step-sister and her husband who were teachers and lived close by for three
years (00:01:32:00)
 When he was in 2nd grade, doctors determined Clark also had tuberculosis, so they
immediately separated him from the other students and sent him back to his aunt’s, who
home-schooled him from there (00:01:59:00)
o During the finally few weeks of school, they allowed Clark to return to the school
and he passed all his tests to advance into 3rd grade (00:02:16:00)
 Clark’s father eventually found out that one of the best places for people with
tuberculosis to recover was in Arizona, so he bought a Ford Model T and moved to
family to Arizona (00:02:24:00)
o Clark’s aunt and uncle came with them because his uncle had been in Arizona
previously and had a previous job offer to work in the state, while Clark’s father
did not have any jobs arranged (00:02:41:00)
 Clark’s family stayed in Arizona for a year; when they got out there, they found out that
tuberculosis patients did not fare as well as they had originally believed (00:03:03:00)
o The family managed to eke out an existence for a year; his father was a millworker but Phoenix had no industry at that time, it was still a cow-town
(00:03:14:00)
o Clark and his sister’s schooling never suffered because of their aunt but there was
a lack of money because their father could not find a job and had to keep making
payments on the property he had purchased in Michigan (00:03:40:00)
 Things got so bad that around Christmas and New Years of that year,
Clark’s father took he and his sister to pick cotton, which was a terrible
job to do; their fingers were bleeding after about fifteen minutes of work
but the farmer was nice and gave Clark and his sister fifty cents apiece and
their father a dollar (00:04:01:00)

�





Soon after the holiday’s their father received a check, which he used to
purchase some chickens to raise (00:04:33:00)
 Clark raised some rabbits by himself and together, he and his father made
a fair amount of money by the time the family moved back to Michigan in
September 1929 (00:04:43:00)
When the family moved back to Michigan, Clark went back and lived with his aunt again
for another year before the Great Depression hit (00:05:18:00)
o Again, Clark’s father sold what property he had and moved with Clark’s halfsister and her husband to a forty acre farm near Hillsdale, Michigan (00:05:28:00)
o For the first two years, the family managed to survive but by the third year, they
had no money, farm prices were nearly non-existent, and they did everything on a
barter basis (00:05:51:00)
 Clark would do stuff for the neighbors while keeping track of the hours
and the neighbors would give things to Clark’s family (00:06:02:00)
o Finally, it reached the point that they could no longer make payments on the farm,
so they ended up losing it in January 1934 (00:06:17:00)
o They then had a offer to working on a farm owned by a couple of their cousins;
the cousins had invested in a corner store in Detroit and supplied it from the farm,
which was near Fowlerville, Michigan (00:06:34:00)
 The family moved to the farm and things were good for a period while
they worked for shares of the profit (00:07:03:00)
 Twenty acres of the farm were pickles that were sold at a given price, four
acres were melons, etc. (00:07:13:00)
 During the end of July and beginning of August, the farm was making a
good profit but in the middle of August, something wiped out their entire
crop (00:07:36:00)
o Clark was in the eighth grade at the time while his sister had gone back to their
aunt in Detroit to go to high school (00:07:54:00)
 In those days, they were county day schools and a family had to pay
tuition for their child to attend; Clark’s father could not afford to send both
Clark and his sister to high school, but because Clark’s sister already had a
year, she was chosen to go (00:08:08:00)
 Another of Clark’s aunts, who lived in Hartland, Michigan, was also a
teacher along with her husband, although her husband had retired to
manage a farm (00:08:41:00)
 The aunt had a large house to take care of, so she contacted Clark’s
father and said that if Clark wanted to be her houseboy while he
went through high school, he could (00:08:59:00)
 Clark took the offer and while he was living with his aunt,
managed to pick up several other odd jobs (00:09:13:00)
Clark was essentially living by himself by the age of seventeen (00:10:06:00)
o He was not going to attend college because there were not scholarships available
to him and he did not have enough money (00:10:10:00)
 Clark had not planned on attending college anyway; he had intended to
stay in the area and work at whatever jobs he could find (00:10:15:00)

�







However, his high school superintendent called him about ten days before
the college semester was set to being, wondering where Clark was going
to be attending (00:10:22:00)
 When Clark explained he was not going to be attending anywhere, the
superintendent explained that he needed to go to college because even if
Clark went for a semester, he would eventually end up going back at some
point (00:10:33:00)
 When Clark said he only had three hundred dollars, the
superintendent said that was enough to attend Eastern Michigan
University (00:10:46:00)
 So, Clark attended Eastern Michigan for a semester before his money ran
out and he went back to working at the jobs he had before (00:11:02:00)
 Clark saved his money and then attended Michigan State University in
1940, where he stayed until being drafted in 1942 (00:11:22:00)
 While at the school, Clark was on a pre-med program although he
had no hope of going to medical school (00:11:38:00)
 When Clark passed his medical aptitude test as a junior and
because the University was hurting for students as a result of the
draft, one of the professors said they could get Clark into the
ROTC program (00:11:48:00)
o However, Clark said they would not take him because of
his poor vision, but the professor said they could fix that
problem (00:12:12:00)
 Clark stayed and while being sworn in a commissioned officers,
someone from the medical office came in looking for Clark; they
asked if his vision was 20/40 and when he said no, it was 20/400,
they said that they could not use him (00:12:18:00)
 When Clark went back to where he was staying, his draft card was
waiting for him, something he was happy for (00:12:53:00)
When the attack on Pearl Harbor occurred, Clark had hitch-hiked back to his aunt’s house
in Hartland that Sunday (00:13:19:00)
o It was snowing when he hitch-hiked back and arrived at the house, but nobody
was around; he eventually went upstairs and everyone in the house was crowded
around one of the boarders, who happened to have a radio, and were talking about
Pearl Harbor (00:13:25:00)
o Clark’s roommate from a year before had just left to go into the Naval air wing
for training and was activated soon after the attack; the roommate spent a year on
Guadalcanal and was shot down twice (00:14:02:00)
At Michigan State, students had to take ROTC during their first two years, which was
when Clark learned they would not accept him (00:14:36:00)
o Clark was attending summer school when his draft notice came through; within
two weeks, he had his physical, after which he was given a two-week leave,
during which he finished his courses (00:14:57:00)
Clark never actually received his basic training until he had been in the service for about
a year (00:15:29:00)

�

o He as initially inducted at Camp Custer in Kalamazoo, Michigan, which was
where everyone in Michigan went; Clark was at the camp for three or four days,
during which he got his hair cut, his clothing assigned to him, etc. (00:15:38:00)
o After a week or ten days, Clark was sent with a group to Fort Hamilton in
Brooklyn, New York, where he stayed for another three or four days, although
with a different group (00:15:56:00)
 While he was there, Clark saw freighters in the harbor with their rear-ends
blown off by German submarines, which were quite busy at the time
(00:16:12:00)
 All the soldiers in Clark’s group were sure that they would be in Africa or
some other theater within two weeks (00:16:24:00)
o On the aptitude part of his paperwork, it said that Clark had some experience
work in laboratories, so the Army sent him to work at the Fort Dix’s hospital’s
medical lab (00:16:31:00)
 Clark began working at the laboratories right away and stayed in the labs
from September until March, when the Army pulled Clark and an older
man out (00:16:55:00)
 The Army said both men had orders to attend the City College of New
York for a special ASTP training program (00:17:14:00)
o Clark and the other man spent a month going through tests while the Army
decided what to do with them before Clark was eventually sent with another
group to Syracuse University for engineer training (00:17:28:00)
 Although Clark was a corporal at the time, when he went back to school,
he was demoted down to buck private (00:17:45:00)
 Clark stayed at the university until November (00:17:56:00)
 The courses tended to be basic engineer although most of the
students had already graduated from various universities with
engineering degrees (00:18:01:00)
o Clark had already had some of the math course but he
learned surveying and electrical engineering; Clark was
most interested in Chemical engineering but they did not
offer courses in that (00:18:10:00)
o In November, the Army scraped the entire program after which, Clark finally
went to basic training as a private, specifically basic combat medical training at
Camp Grant in Illinois (00:18:25:00)
At that time, Fort Dix was manned mostly by local soldiers from either New York City,
New Jersey, or Philadelphia (00:18:54:00)
o Clark and another man were the only two in the lab who did not have wives or
relatives nearby and when everyone else would leave the base, they left it for
Clark and the other man to take care of things (00:19:08:00)
o Nearly everyone in the group Clark was with were Jewish and although they
fought amongst themselves, they were nice to Clark and the other man
(00:19:21:00)
 Clark and the other man had received some laboratory training, which was
the only reason they were at the base (00:19:35:00)

�





o The men worked regularly-houred days; they would not have even recognized
they were in the Army except when they had inspection every morning
(00:19:45:00)
 The soldiers did go through an infiltration course with live ammunition
but it was pretty tame compared to what he had to go through at Camp
Grant (00:19:58:00)
o While at the base, Clark was able to go into New York, as well as Philadelphia
and Trenton, New Jersey, which was close to the base (00:20:10:00)
 Camden, New Jersey was off-limits to the soldiers on the base because
soldiers were having too many problems there (00:20:16:00)
 Philadelphia was a Navy town and although Army soldiers were not really
well-received there, it was still a nice place to go if the soldiers had money
to spend (00:20:24:00)
 New York City was wonderful; the USO clubs turned themselves insideout for the soldiers and Clark was able to go to the opera, attending a
boxing match, went to plays on Broadway, etc. and as far as Clark was
concerned, everything was great (00:20:37:00)
Before he enlisted, Clark became engaged and his fiancé insisted on an engagement ring,
so Clark bought her a ring and brought it to her for Christmas (00:21:59:00)
o However, when he arrived at Syracuse saying the girl had found someone else to
marry and she had given the ring to Clark’s aunt (00:22:09:00)
When the soldiers were at Syracuse, they almost were the second-fiddle; although there
were around six hundred soldiers, the Air Force had already established a program at the
University several months, possibly a year beforehand and had pretty well integrated
themselves into the town (00:22:28:00)
o This left the Army soldiers on the outside looking in and they were less wellreceived by the populace (00:22:48:00)
o Clark’s group lived in a fraternity house that had been stripped down and the
furniture replaced with bunk beds (00:22:55:00)
o The soldiers went through some rigorous physical training exercises but Clark had
run track and boxed amongst other activities at Michigan State and Eastern
Michigan, so the exercises were not difficult (00:23:13:00)
 The exercises were so easy for Clark that every time he did one, he was
asked to go for the record (00:23:31:00)
o The food the soldiers had was great; they ate steak at least once a week, which
was better than they received at Fort Dix (00:24:04:00)
When the Army decided to scrap the program at Syracuse, Clark was given a week leave
around Thanksgiving then told to report to Camp Grant in Illinois to being basic combat
medical training (00:24:31:00)
o During the training, the soldier woke up at around five-thirty / six o’clock in the
morning and for half an hour, they had to get ready for an inspection; after the
inspection, the soldiers went through a half an hour of rigorous calisthenics
(00:24:57:00)
o After the calisthenics, the soldiers attending courses different topics, such as
splinting injuries and first aid as well as medical courses in nursing care and
fracture handling (00:25:14:00)

�

o

o

o

o

In one of the final drills, the soldiers had to go through an infiltration
course at night with live machine gun fire going about three feet off the
ground (00:25:29:00)
 During the course, the soldiers had to take turns carrying each
other on liters; Clark was lucky because his group did not have
anyone that weighed more than one hundred on fifty pounds
because if someone did, Clark might not have been able to lift
them (00:25:43:00)
 When they got to the end of the course, there was a barrier they
had to hoist the liter over as practice (00:26:02:00)
 The soldiers also went through a live gas drill where they went into a gas
room with all their equipment on (00:26:16:00)
 One of the reasons they told Clark he originally would not go into
combat was because the gas masks did not fit around glasses;
however, they later created inserts that worked around that
particular problem (00:26:31:00)
 By the time the soldiers went into the gas drill, they had already be
trained to what the different gases smelt like and had already gone
through skin tests with different chemicals (00:27:05:00)
 The instructors used actually chemical gas and if the soldiers did
not get their gas masks on fast enough, then the gas used in the
drill would make them ill (00:27:45:00)
 Because Clark received this training, when he was assigned to his
new unit, they made him the chemical weapons officer for the unit,
although everyone threw their gas masks away when they got to
Europe and used the extra space for something else (00:27:56:00)
The soldiers at Camp Grant did not receive the traditional infantry basic training;
there was some marching but it was mostly ceremonial (00:28:26:00)
 The soldiers mostly received hands-on training for situations they might
encounter in the field (00:28:41:00)
The Army rotated units in and out of the base to finish their training about four
weeks, although for some reason Clark was there an extra week (00:29:06:00)
 If a soldier did not have an assignment, then he stayed at the base until
some unit wanted him (00:29:21:00)
A lot of the soldiers on the base were ASTP; part of the reason the Army scraped
the program at Syracuse was they needed soldiers and the men in the program
were smart enough to adapt to different assignments and many would have been
officers if it were not for mitigating circumstances (00:29:29:00)
The general in charge of the base was the surgeon general and everything on the
base was medical, the payoff of which was that the base housed some German SS
prisoners from North Africa (00:30:03:00)
 The prisoners were kept at one end of the compound with very limited
security and because the prisoners were there, it was determined that the
American soldiers had to walk guard-duty; during guard-duty, a soldier
was given only a billy-club and told where to patrol (00:30:20:00)

�





The only guard-duty Clark ever did was at the Camp Grant and it was on
Christmas Eve; the snow was two feet deep, the wind was blowing, and no
one was stirring except Clark on guard-duty (00:30:40:00)
 The only winter clothes the soldiers had were an overcoat, a wool
cap, an Army-issue scare, and overshoes (00:31:10:00)
o The Army was very strict that everything the soldiers was “Army” style except
they did not receive any weapons training (00:31:29:00)
 However, after the war in Europe was over and Clark was training to go
fight in the Pacific, then he shot every weapon up to the 105 mm howitzer
(00:31:54:00)
 The Army enforced discipline on the soldiers, based mostly on having
clean barracks; the instructors checked everything up to the air ducts and if
they thought it was too dirty, then the entire barracks was confined to
quarters and had to clean the barracks for the weekend (00:32:15:00)
 If the soldiers had a clean barracks, then they were allowed to go
into Chicago for the weekend; Clark was only able to go into the
city twice but it was still nice (00:32:34:00)
Clark eventually left Camp Grant and arrived at Fort Jackson, South Carolina to join the
106th Infantry Division on New Years Day, 1944 (00:33:09:00)
o When Clark first traveled from Fort Custer to Camp Dix, it was by train and
trucks picked up the soldiers at the rail station to transport them to the base, which
was the same thing that happened at Fort Jackson (00:33:24:00)
o Clark’s orders originally had him joining K Company, 424th Infantry Regiment
but that was only because they had an empty barracks to put new arrivals in;
within a day, Clark had orders that he was assigned to the medical section of the
division’s artillery unit (00:34:03:00)
 Although he joined a medical section for an artillery unit, Clark’s training
remained the same; all thee medics already in the unit had gone through
regular basic training and received their medical training from medical
officers there (00:34:33:00)
 Their training was similar to the training Clark received, although
less strenuous (00:34:51:00)
 All the medics in the unit would go out during firing practice and
mix together with the artillery men (00:35:01:00)
Clark only stayed at Fort Jackson for three weeks before the entire division moved to
Nashville for the Tennessee Maneuvers, which lasted from the end of January until the
March (00:35:18:00)
o The maneuvers served as training for the Battle of the Bulge with two divisions at
a time and they simulated what would happen during an attack (00:35:46:00)
 The experience the soldiers found most consistent with what they later
experienced in Belgium and Germany was the weather; the weather in
Tennessee was miserable, it snowed off and on, there was mud
everywhere, etc. (00:36:30:00)
 On occasion, the soldiers used streambeds as roads as opposed to
the regular roads because the streambeds were made of limestone;

�



the only problem was the soldiers had to make sure they had a
good bank to drive out on or they would be stuck (00:36:51:00)
o During the maneuvers, a “referee” would appear in the area and drop a flare,
which signaled the unit was under attack; somebody when then come along and
put a tag on people, which signaled them as wounded and the medics had to
attended to them (00:37:13:00)
 Most of the time the maneuvers were pretty boring for the soldiers in
Clark’s unit (00:37:36:00)
o For the maneuvers, the soldiers had to sleep outside but they could not drive a tent
stake into the hard limestone, which just added to the misery factor (00:37:41:00)
After the Tennessee Maneuvers, Clark’s unit went to Camp Atterbury, Indiana for more
training (00:37:59:00)
o While at the camp, the Army took all experienced NCOs from the unit and sent
them to England to prepare for the Normandy invasion; the 106th was not ready to
participate was a unit but the Army needed experienced NCOs (00:38:06:00)
o The division received new NCOs and at one time, others said the 106th was the
youngest division in the Army (00:38:23:00)
The division stayed at Camp Atterbury until October 1944, when they received another
influx of new soldiers; the Army periodically drained the unit for experienced soldiers
and put in new soldiers to receive training (00:39:15:00)
o Because of the constant moving of troops, some of the units remained
understaffed; the commander of medical section for the artillery unit was
supposed to send a surgeon to each battalion but at one point, the commander was
the only surgeon in the section (00:39:41:00)
o However, about two or three weeks before the division was set to deploy, the
section received more medical officers assigned to them, although the officers
were strangers to the men in the section when they deployed (00:40:03:00)
o Clark had been the section commander’s driver up until they deployed and he
only met the officer who would be over him about a week before they deployed
and never actually drove him (00:40:16:00)
o All the other units in the division were filled up to strength before the division
deployed to Europe (00:40:51:00)
 There were some soldiers who had been with the division for a long time
but did not end up deploying and needed replacement; even went the
division reached its POE at Camp Miles Standish in Massachusetts, some
older soldiers were deemed not fit for combat (00:40:55:00)
o A friend of Clark had been in the unit for about a month longer than Clark and at
one point, the section’s commander said that either Clark or Clark’s friend were
going to have to go to another unit as a chief NCO with the unit’s new medical
officer (00:41:24:00)
 At the time, the section had just received another batch of new soldiers,
including a Japanese doctor (00:41:56:00)
 The two men talked over the decision and although Clark’s friend had
been in the unit longer, Clark was a higher rank (00:42:28:00)
 Clark was apprehensive because although he knew the medics in
the unit, he had spent all his time in the field with the commanding

�

officer, so he suggested his friend take the assignment, which he
did (00:42:40:00)
When the Army reconstituted the unit later in the war, not only did Clark
receive his friend’s job, but he also operated without a medical officer for
a period (00:43:11:00)

Deployment (00:43:44:00)
 For the voyage over to Europe, the soldiers were placed aboard an ex-luxury liner that
was designated as the S.S. Wakefield; the ship had had a couple of fires and was
reconstructed as a troop ship (00:43:44:00)
o Clark’s bunker was on the fourth deck down, directly next to the bulkhead; the
bunks were stacked three or four high, consisted of only canvas and pipe, and
there was an aisle between them only about two feet wide (00:44:05:00)
 The soldiers had to keep their bunk bag and all their possessions with
them on the bunk (00:44:34:00)
o In the morning, someone would blow a whistle for inspection and the soldiers
were expected to get out of the bunks quickly, except there was no place for them
to go (00:44:40:00)
o Clark had the less-than-encouraging thought that his deck was so closed to the
bottom that the soldiers would be the last ones out and the first ones to get wet
(00:44:53:00)
o All the soldiers were sick on the voyage because they sailed through a massive
storm the night they got out of the Boston harbor; most everyone, even the ship’s
crew, got sick but for some reason, Clark did not (00:45:01:00)
 Nevertheless, the food in the mess hall was not very appetizing; twice a
day during meals, the soldiers had to line up if they wanted something to
eat while carrying a metal tray (00:45:19:00)
 The tables in the mess hall had raised edges so the trays would not
slide off; the tables seated around ten to twelve men at a time and
on occasion, trays would slide from man to man depending on the
weather (00:45:49:00)
 One time, Clark went to eat but his tray slide away and the soldier
who’s tray ended up in front of Clark had vomited, which made
Clark lose his appetite (00:46:20:00)
o The soldiers were aboard the Wakefield for seven days and around the fourth day,
when the ship had got into the gulf-stream, the sailing was nice (00:46:43:00)
 The Wakefield eventually arrived in Liverpool, where the soldiers debarked then traveled
to an area where they received new equipment and supplies (00:46:56:00)
 The soldiers were supposed to cross the English Channel on Dec. 2nd; they were expected
to board the LST in the morning, cross the channel, and debark the next day in Le Havre,
France (00:47:21:00)
o During the night, the annual Army-Navy football game was on and the sailors had
the radio tuned to the game (00:48:01:00)
o Although the LST only had provisions for two meals for the soldiers, it was just
past Thanksgiving, so the soldiers were able to eat turkey and dressing, as well as
ice cream (00:48:21:00)

�

o However, a storm came across the channel and loosened some of the sea mines at
the entrance of the harbor, so the LST stayed in the channel for four days
(00:48:36:00)
o The unit was expected to go straight from the ship to the combat zone so it was
loaded with combat supplies; Clark’s jeep and the medical detachment’s
equipment was all on the upper deck (00:48:50:00)
 The Navy had it so the soldiers would have three shifts for sleeping and
Clark’s area was sleeping in an empty chain room; however, the soldiers
could also sleep in the vehicles on the deck, but that was not very feasible
because of the storm (00:49:11:00)
o For entertainment, the soldiers wandered around the ship but for some reason,
there were less seasick soldiers then than when they had crossed the Atlantic; part
of the reason was the LST was so heavily loaded that it did not move around a lot
(00:49:51:00)
o Clark walked into the room where the majority of the vehicles and artillery pieces
were stored and there was three feet of water in the room; the doors on the front
of the ship never fully closed, leaving a gap for water to get through
(00:50:16:00)
o During the storm, the soldiers had to get by on the rations they had stored to carry
them to the front; as a result, when the soldiers landed, they did not eat well until
they arrived in St. Vith, Belgium (00:50:42:00)
When the soldiers landed, their marching orders had somehow changed and the trucks
they had trained pulling the howitzers with were substituted for half-tracks, although
none of the unit’s mechanics had any experience working with half-tracks (00:51:08:00)
o Because the roads in the area were not built for high-speed travel, the rest of the
division remained stuck in France (00:51:21:00)
o The LSTs could not land in Le Havre, so they sailed up the Seine River and
beached the LSTs at Rouen; however, once the other vehicles were clear from
inside the ship, the elevator jammed and they could not get the vehicles on the
upper deck off (00:51:38:00)
 Clark assumed they would be stuck for a few days while the elevator was
repaired but within minutes, another LST had pulled up beside them, both
ship’s guide-rails were broken down, planks were put across, and the
vehicles driven over to use the other LST’s elevator (00:51:54:00)
o Once the artillery section was off the LST, they immediately drove for the front
while the rest of the division took a different route (00:52:24:00)
o Clark does not recall too much about the drive to the front; the soldiers drove
nearly constantly because of the slow speed of the half-tracks and because they
were driving in blackout conditions, the soldiers focused on the cat’s-eye light of
the vehicle in front of them, which tended to hypnotize the soldiers (00:52:43:00)
 The soldiers drove at least twenty hours a day because of the low speeds
of the half-tracks (00:53:09:00)
 During the journey to the front, Clark drove a jeep for a new medical
officer who he had never met before; the officer said nothing to Clark and
vice versa (00:53:15:00)

�






The artillery section finally stopped at the Belgian town of St. Vith; they pulled off the
road at around midnight to rest and at some point, the soldiers received some C-rations
that someone had heated in a fire built in an oil drum (00:53:30:00)
o The soldiers arrived at St. Vith on Dec. 10th, 1944; they had driven the entire way
under blackout conditions and when they arrived in the town, the soldiers already
in the town, part of the 2nd Infantry Division, yelled at them for driving with their
lights out (00:54:07:00)
 The 2nd Infantry had been there for a month and had no problems, so they
had no qualms with keeping the blackout procedures (00:54:24:00)
o The soldiers arrived in the town during a snowstorm in which the snow was eight
inches deep and very wet; the ground underneath the snow had not year frozen
solid, so some of it turned to mud (00:54:35:00)
o When the soldiers pulled into their area, Clark fell out of his jeep with his
sleeping bag into a snow bank and fell asleep until somebody woke him in the
morning (00:54:48:00)
o It continued snowing off and on periodically for another week or two after the
soldiers arrived in St. Vith (00:55:03:00)
After a little while, the 2nd Infantry moved out of St. Vith to jump off and attack towards
the Roudan and the 106th Infantry was expected to fill their position on the American
line, which, in hindsight, was not a good idea (00:55:28:00)
From where Clark’s unit was positioned near St. Vith, it was not far to the town of
Schönberg, where the main road divided (00:55:48:00)
o If they took the road due east, the soldiers would eventually end up in Bleialt,
which was the next major town in the area after St. Vith and it happened to be in
Germany; if the soldiers went the other direction, they ended up in Auw, which
was also in Germany (00:55:56:00)
o From where Clark’s unit was positioned, the roads formed a sort of triangle
between all the artillery units (00:56:15:00)
o To move between the artillery units, the soldiers had to take either the road to
Bleialt or the road to Auw and when they moved in to take over the position for
the 2nd Infantry Division’s artillery unit, Clark’s unit ended up taking a country
road off the Auw road (00:56:26:00)
 The road originally seemed passable by the vehicles ended up getting
stuck, so they had to put chains on the vehicles; as well, the half-tracks did
not perform as they were expected to (00:57:02:00)
 The Army eventually closed the road down, which hindered the soldiers
during the upcoming Battle of the Bulge because they could not got out of
the area down that road (00:57:19:00)
Despite the setback on the country road, Clark’s unit was mostly in position and set by
the next day (00:57:52:00)
o The weather remained miserable although it did clear a couple of times and the
sun managed to come out (00:58:01:00)
o The medical detachment’s aid station was located in a Belgian farmhouse; a
typical Belgian farmhouse was attached to the barn, creating a single unit and this
particular farmhouse had a nice little barn on the back of it (00:58:08:00)

�



The farmhouse had no running water; instead, it had an outhouse that had
lost its roof (00:58:30:00)
 Because they were planning to be at the farmhouse for awhile,
Clark decided he was going to fix the outhouse roof, so he got
some thatching and managed to get the roof repaired; however,
when the artillery barrage began on Dec. 16th, the outhouse was
destroyed (00:58:39:00)
When they moved into the new position, the Army told the soldiers that it was merely a
holding position and that they expected the war to be over by Christmas (00:59:14:00)
o However, when the unit stalled on the country road going to the position, a shell
air-burst a couple of hundred yards away and it made Clark realize how real the
situation was (00:59:24:00)
 When the shell air-burst, Clark was glad when they ordered the soldiers to
put chains on the tires because it meant he was under the jeep in case any
more rounds came in (00:59:45:00)

The Battle of the Bulge (01:00:29:00)
 The Battle of the Bulge itself began with a tremendous artillery barrage at around five
o’clock in the morning over the whole area (01:00:29:00)
o On the farmhouse where the medical section was staying were blackout shutters
and the concussions from the German artillery barrage blew them off the
farmhouse (01:00:37:00)
o However, Clark’s particular unit did not suffer any casualties during the barrage
and once the barrage ended, things quieted back down (01:01:05:00)
o The night before the barrage, the medical officer who Clark drove around wanted
Clark to visit some forward observers stationed in the Siegfried Line pillboxes
who believed they had trench foot (01:01:24:00)
 Clark was set to visit the forward observers when he received word that
the artillery battery commander was going to take fresh observers to the
position and bring the injured ones back for Clark to treat (01:02:07:00)
 Clark did not care one way or the other but as it turned out, the battery
commander was captured briefly before escaping, although his driver did
not escape capture (01:02:40:00)
 After the battery commander left the unit, Clark was told he needed to go pick up medical
supplies in St. Vith as well as two trench foot victims who were ready to rejoin the unit
(01:03:02:00)
o Clark had two roads to get back to St. Vith, the one leading to Bleialt and the one
lead to Auw and he chose the Auw road because the battery commander’s group
was in a vehicle right in front of him (01:03:27:00)
o When Clark’s group got into the middle of Auw, there were huge craters in the
middle of the road and Army engineers were trying to repair them (01:03:52:00)
o Clark had to go through Auw before he reached the road to St. Vith while the
battery commander turned before that to head to the forward observers; Clark
later discovered that within two minutes of turning, the commander’s group was
surrounded by Germans (01:04:18:00)

�o When Clark made it to St. Vith, two other medics from the 590th were there and
they had come using the Bleialt road; when they asked how Clark had gotten there
and he explained the Auw road, the medics said they ran into a German patrol on
their way into the town (01:04:55:00)
 The medics said the German patrol tried to stop them but one of the
medics grabbed a German’s rifle and the two medics kept going
(01:05:20:00)
 The other medics said they did not think going back that way was safe and
Clark said he had no problems taking the Auw road apart from the craters,
so the two decided to go that way (01:05:43:00)
o Once Clark picked up his supplies and the two trench foot soldiers, they started
back towards Auw but once they arrived in Schönberg, there was a recon vehicle
partially hidden to one side of the road (01:06:30:00)
 An officer came out and asked if they were heading back towards Auw;
when Clark said they were, the officer told Clark to let them know what
they find because they had heard there were Germans near Auw
(01:06:53:00)
 After going a ways down the road, there was a rifleman in a ditch on the
side of the road who said he was part of the engineers and the Germans
had routed them out of the town earlier that morning (01:07:13:00)
 The soldier said the Germans had infantry and self-propelled artillery in
the town and although every so often he saw one of the vehicles stick its
nose out, the Germans had yet to attack in his direction (01:07:33:00)
o Seeing he could not go that way, Clark tried to take the other route through Bleialt
but it too was blocked off (01:07:50:00)
 There were two ammo trains, one for the 590th and one for the 592nd,
parked along the road and when Clark asked what had happened, someone
told him the Germans had taken Bleialt and they were waiting for the
infantry and engineers to clear them out if they could (01:08:19:00)
 Clark asked if they thought he could get through and was told it was up to
him to decide (01:08:32:00)
 Around that time, someone came down the line saying it was all clear and
the ammo trains could continued; however, Clark did not want to be part
of a convoy loaded with ammo going through a crossroads that the
Germans kept under observation and occasionally threw an artillery shell
into (01:08:38:00)
 Instead, Clark and the other two soldiers went ahead of the convoy
and made it through Bleialt without a problem (01:09:01:00)
o Once they made it through Bleialt, the three soldiers stopped at the
headquarters/aid station for the 590th and 422nd Infantry to check on the two
medics from St. Vith and see if they made it back (01:09:16:00)
 The aid station was knee deep in casualties and when Clark observed this,
the soldiers said they had already lost their commander (01:09:40:00)
 The soldiers asked if Clark had any supplies and when he said his unit had
not been hit bad, he decided to leave most the supplies he had picked up in
St. Vith with them (01:10:26:00)

�

o After Clark’s group had gone a little ways up the road, there was an anti-aircraft
instillation that appeared to have been shooting at either a German self-propelled
or lightweight tank (01:10:46:00)
 An officer from 589th the was directing the instillation’s fire against the
German armor and when Clark drove up, the officer wanted a ride to his
unit’s headquarters, which was with the 592nd, so he hopped in the jeep
and Clark took him to headquarters (01:11:12:00)
o After dropping the officer off at headquarters, Clark turned the jeep around and
headed back to where his unit was stationed (01:11:34:00)
When he got back, Clark’s unit had still not taken any casualties, although just as Clark
was getting out of the jeep, a round came in and hit the cook shed; Clark and another man
grabbed stretchers but when they got to the shed, there was not much left (01:11:40:00)
o There had been a ten gallon container of chocolate pudding and all there was were
bodies parts and chocolate pudding (01:12:27:00)
o After the cook shed was destroyed, the unit received word that the gun batteries
about a mile away from them in the direction of Auw were under fire, an officer
had been killed and they had a bunch of casualties (01:12:49:00)
 Clark and another sergeant drove up near the battery to see if they could
help because the only medic the unit had was pinned down and out of
supplies (01:13:11:00)
 The two medics got into a log and dirt dugout the 2nd Infantry Division
had created where there were six wounded already, as well as several
more wounded outside near the battery’s machine gun emplacement
outside the dugout (01:13:31:00)
 The machine gun emplacement had used up its ammunition but the
soldiers were still trying to reach the dead officer and pull him
back (01:14:22:00)
 As Clark and the sergeant were working on the wounded soldiers in the
machine gun emplacement, the German artillery pieces came out from
behind a church some distances away; however, the American soldiers
could not depress their howitzers low enough to attack them (01:14:44:00)
 The soldiers had not received any supplies since they had left England,
meaning there was a shortage of everything, including bazooka
ammunition (01:15:13:00)
 Clark and the sergeant treated the wounded as best they could and ended
up using all their supplies (01:15:33:00)
 At a certain point, a smaller artillery round struck outside the dugout and
Clark assumed the Germans were using it to find the range before the
larger rounds (01:15:51:00)
 Clark and the sergeant instructed everyone to lay low against the
ground and as Clark was kneeling to care for a soldier next to the
standing sergeant, a round came through the window of the dugout,
took off the sergeant’s pinky finger, and splattered all over Clark’s
face and broke his glasses, which made it so Clark could not see,
which took the fight out of him (01:15:59:00)

�At some point, a medic from the 589th came to help Clark and the sergeant
because the 589th’s battery was less than one hundred yards away
(01:16:48:00)
 The sergeant eventually told Clark that they had used up their supplies and
although they had truck to transport the wounded, the Germans were
ignoring the Red Cross symbol; however, it was getting towards night and
the sergeant thought it best that he and Clark return to their unit and come
back after dark to get the soldiers out (01:16:59:00)
 Clark and the sergeant started crawling back to their truck parked on a hill
about fifty yards away and as far as Clark could hear, everything was
perfectly fine (01:17:44:00)
 Once they reached the truck, Clark decided he had crawled enough and if
the Germans wanted to shot at him, they could, so he stood and walked
through the woods to his unit’s aid station (01:18:01:00)
 At some point, the medic from the 589th took a piece of shrapnel through
the butt and because he did not believe he could walk right, volunteered to
stay with the wounded at the battery (01:18:28:00)
 Later, two soldiers volunteered and went back after dark to pick up the
wounded (01:19:06:00)
o Because Clark had lost his glasses and they did not think he would be too reliable
without them, his commanders had him make some hot chocolate and prepare
food to eat (01:19:39:00)
 Clark had another pair of glasses in his duffel bag but he did not take the
time to go searching for them (01:19:45:00)
o While he was making the hot chocolate, the soldiers received word that they were
to prepare to evacuate the position by midnight (01:20:18:00)
During the unit’s evacuation, it was up to Clark to load the equipment from the aid
station into the weapon’s carrier that they had to use as an ambulance (01:20:32:00)
o However, the weapon’s carrier could only carry about five wounded, so they
placed some of the wounded into a spare truck the unit had (01:20:45:00)
o Clark had some equipment he thought was vital but there was no place to put it,
so he tried stacking it all on his jeep, which was not going to be able to handle all
of the extra weight (01:21:06:00)
 To make room for the equipment, Clark took the captain’s footlocker, full
of new uniforms the captain expected to wear to Paris on leave, and put it
in the barn, figuring the men would be back to the position soon, although
Clark did not tell the captain he did so (01:22:24:00)
o Clark got a hold of the truck driver and said although he wanted the jeep to pull a
trailer, he knew that he was not going to be able to do attach it by himself and
wondered if the truck driver and his assistant would help (01:21:59:00)
o While Clark was loading the jeep, one of the pieces of equipment was a light with
three settings: white, red, and green, and a toggle-switch to change between them
(01:22:33:00)
 While the soldiers were rushing to load the vehicles, the light felt out and
shot a beam of light straight up; Clark threw his overcoat over the light to
block it and as he was checking to make sure the light was off, he




�accidentally toggled it from to green, which made the commanders suspect
someone was signaling the Germans (01:22:56:00)
 Clark finally covered the light with mud; the light was still on but it could
not shine through the mud (01:23:30:00)
o Clark eventually got the trailer hooked but the truck who was helping him slid in
the mud and ended up pinning Clark so he could not get out; eventually, they
moved the truck and put Clark in the truck with the rest of the wounded
(01:23:52:00)
 When he woke up the next morning, Clark was the only person still in the
truck, so he got up and went looking for everyone else (01:24:45:00)
Recovery Experiences / Return to Unit (01:24:51:00)
 Clark did not think he was too badly hurt at the time; he did not feel any pain in his face
and he does not even remember when the truck pinched him (01:24:51:00)
 From then on, Clark was part of the medical evacuation system for casualties, which was
quite chaotic at the time given the German attacks (01:25:33:00)
o All the hospitals had to kept moving back until they found locations where they
could stop and work for a period (01:25:44:00)
o Clark slowly worked his way back and eventually ended up in Paris, where he
spent Christmas (01:25:49:00)
o When Clark woke up the first time after being pinched by the truck, the unit was
just pulling out of the position just after midnight; someone was shooting off
flares and Clark could see they were traveling on the road towards Bleialt
(01:26:36:00)
 There was an engineering cutoff before Bleialt and Clark assumed the
convoy would take that road (01:26:50:00)
 As the unit was traveling, there was machine gun fire exchanged between
the Germans and an engineering unit in the area (01:27:18:00)
 “A” Battery ended up missing the cutoff and while they were trying to
turn their vehicles around, they ran into some Germans and the battalion
commander was captured (01:27:52:00)
o The unit eventually moved through Schönberg just ahead of the Germans and then
stopped in St. Vith at the same location they had stayed when they first moved
into the area (01:28:33:00)
 The unit’s guns began firing under the pretenses of destroying any
equipment they had left behind, which included the officer’s footlocker of
new uniforms (01:28:51:00)
 While the guns were firing, the officer was standing with Clark, who told
the captain he had something to tell him; when Clark told him what he had
done, the officer’s face got kind of red and simply said that he was not
going to be going to Paris for awhile (01:29:10:00)
 At the same time, the officer examined Clark more thoroughly and
suggested he get the shrapnel removed and be on penicillin for a couple of
days, as well as a tetanus shot; the officer said he would see Clark in a day
or so but Clark did not return until Jan. 10th (01:29:40:00)
 Clark then went to a bombed-out hospital in Upin, Belgium (01:30:20:00)

�





o At one point, a siren went off and although Clark was worried about it, another
soldier said they did that periodically and if Clark was so worried, he could get
into the stairwell; Clark did get into the stairwell and that time, the Germans
happened to drop a bomb (01:30:28:00)
 The bomb ended up hitting an ammo dump that was only twenty yards
away from the hospital; the explosion ended up knocking a jeep onto the
roof of another building and blew out all the windows in the hospital
(01:31:06:00)
o Clark asked an orderly what he should do because he did not want to sleep in
glass and the orderly said there were extra beds in the basement of the hospital to
be used as a bomb shelter and Clark could sleep there (01:31:42:00)
 The hospital workers were expecting casualties from the fighting but there
was no way to get the casualties to them, so the hospital was not busy at
that time (01:32:10:00)
o The explosion had knocked Clark’s glasses as well as his helmet, so he picked up
both of them then felt his way in the dark until he found the door and sure enough,
on the other side were bunk beds (01:32:23:00)
o However, Clark soon heard female voices; some newly-arrived nurses had to
leave their quarters because there was supposedly an unexploded bomb in their
attic (01:32:48:00)
o Clark did not want to stay with the nurses lest someone start asking questions, so
he slide out and went back upstairs; by that time, it was starting to get light out, so
they began processing the wounded to move to Liege, Belgium (01:33:21:00)
The Germans were launching bombs into Liege around every twenty minutes and they
had already hit one building with wounded in them; the Germans kept aiming some of the
bombs at the Liege railyards but they hardly every hit it (01:33:48:00)
o Later on while Clark was attending the University of Michigan medical school, he
met a foreign political science student from Germany who wondered if there were
any medical classes he could take (01:34:11:00)
 As it turned out, the student was a fourteen year-old SS soldier that had
helped do the computations for the explosion times for the bombs that
were sent into Liege while Clark was there (01:34:46:00)
o After four days, the Germans finally got the range and managed to knock over
some tents, which made the officers in charge of the hospital nervous, so they
placed the wounded on a train headed for Paris; however, the wounded had to
sweat it out in the railyards in the possibility that the Germans were finally
accurate with their bombs (01:35:11:00)
o While the wounded were on the train, the women from Liege came out and gave
each of them a little metal tin say “thank you, Liege” (01:35:35:00)
The train finally got to Paris, where Clark’s penicillin shots ended and they were able to
take his stitches out (01:36:56:00)
o It was Christmas and the hospital staff said they did not want to the send the
soldiers to the replacement depot on Christmas, so they decided to send the
soldiers to the depot the next day (01:36:04:00)
Clark then slowly worked his way through the replacement depots and although everyone
wanted to know where the 106th Division was, Clark did not know (01:36:38:00)

�

o The first replacement depot had been a French barracks used by the Germans
when they invade at the outbreak of the war and the only running water was a
fountain in the middle of the compound (01:36:54:00)
 The biggest problem was that the barracks were not heated and some of
the windows were broke (01:37:20:00)
o Clark stayed at the first depot for two nights and a day before they sent him to
another replacement depot, where like Clark, most of the other soldiers were
wounded who had healed and were returning to their original units (01:37:30:00)
 There were wood-burning stoves for heat but no firewood, so they took
the slates from the bunks and burned them; the first man who dove into a
bunk ended up breaking through and ended up on the floor (01:38:00:00)
o While Clark was at the first depot, there was a tremendous roar and looking into
the sky, he saw the airborne relief forced headed for Bastonge (01:38:47:00)
o The soldiers then went by truck to Fontainebleau, France and they ended up
staying in buildings used by Napoleon’s cavalry (01:39:19:00)
 The bunks the soldiers stayed in were nice and in the courtyard of the
complex was a covered mess hall that served upwards of one thousand
soldiers a day (01:39:45:00)
 While there, a soldiers’ ranks did not matter; everyday, the soldiers drew
numbers to decide what their assignment was for that day and Clark
continuously drew KP (Kitchen Patrol) (01:40:15:00)
 His job was to mop down the cobblestones of the stables, which
never came clean anyway, and to help care the found in when it
was time to eat (01:40:40:00)
 When he got back to the barracks one night, the other soldiers told Clark
that he had been chosen to go out that night, which was New Years Eve,
although Clark did not have any money; the other soldiers insisted Clark
go and someone ended up giving him a couple of dollars (01:41:13:00)
 Clark ended up getting with a group of soldiers and the first place
they stopped was an ice cream parlor (01:41:47:00)
 The soldiers eventually saw a lighted chateau with a party going
on, so they went and stood on the veranda to listen to the music;
some of the ladies wanted the soldiers to come in but it was an
officers-only party (01:42:02:00)
 The group did not care about the designation, they were loaded
with their equipment to go back to the front and the next thing
Clark knew, someone had shot out a chandelier (01:42:57:00)
o However, by the time they got around to checking what had
happened, the soldiers were on a train headed back to the
front the next morning (01:43:17:00)
For the train ride back to the front, the men were placed in “40 and 8” railcars and when
the train stopped in Paris, the men were able to get off, stretch, and briefly look around
(01:43:28:00)
o Once the soldiers were back aboard the train, it took them five days to get back to
the front because their train had to stop to let priority trains go by (01:44:55:00)

�



o The “40 and 8”’s were supposed to have either forty men or eight horses but they
had more than forty men in each car, as well as each man’s duffel bag and
weaponry (01:44:09:00)
 The soldiers had to take turns laying down; one group would lay down
while the other group stood and then they would switch (01:44:25:00)
 The soldiers tried everything to get heat; they left the doors open during
the day to see but that naturally made it colder until someone got the idea
to turn a trashcan lid over, put coal in it, and start a fire (01:44:33:00)
o The soldiers were eventually dropped off near the Belgian/German/Dutch border
at another replacement depot (01:45:29:00)
o In one of the railyards where the soldiers briefly stopped were huge casks of wine
on freight cars and somebody had the idea that each soldier would turn over his
helmet while someone fired a machine gun at the casks; when they did so, every
soldier had a spout they could tap into (01:45:47:00)
 Normally, whenever the soldiers were allowed off the training, the
conductor would give two toots and a whistle when he was ready to leave
and all the soldiers would come running; however, on that day, all the
soldiers boarded the train early (01:46:10:00)
When the soldiers finally arrived at their destination in the middle of the night, they could
hear gunfire, as well as some cannon fire, in the background, which meant they were
getting close to the front (01:46:33:00)
o The soldiers were told they had some place to sleep that night but no food,
although they were promised a large meal the next morning (01:46:53:00)
o The soldiers marched about a mile to a farmhouse carrying all sixty pounds of
their equipment; when they arrived, the sergeant-in-charge pulled open the barn
door and pointed to the soldier’s beds, clean straw that they all dove into
(01:47:14:00)
o All the soldiers slept well that night and the next morning, it was sunny outside
when they went as a group to get breakfast (01:47:45:00)
o As the group was marching to breakfast, a group of three officers stopped them
and began berating the soldiers for their appearance because they not had time to
clean themselves; a First Sergeant in the group stepped out, saluted the officers,
and when the officers asked who was in charge, explained that nobody had been
designated but he was the highest ranking (01:48:23:00)
 An officer said the soldiers were a motley mess and were a disgrace to the
United States Army; the First Sergeant replied that he remembered the
officer from North Africa, the soldiers were going to get cleaned up and
eat breakfast and the officer was not going to give them anymore trouble
(01:49:25:00)
 The officer’s face got red and he tried to make out who the sergeant was;
the First Sergeant later explained that the officer had been taken out of the
North African campaign for some reason (01:49:52:00)
o After the soldiers ate, a little farm girl came out with hot water for all of them and
then showed them around the town (01:50:21:00)
The soldiers stayed in the town for a day before dividing up and Clark found out he was
with some airborne returnees (01:50:51:00)

�





o The truck took an awkward route back to the units because they were so close to
the front and when the spent the night some place, Clark learned that he was
going back to the 82nd Airborne Division, not the 106th Infantry (01:51:06:00)
o The next morning, the soldiers got aboard another truck and while the rest of the
soldiers were dropped off late in the afternoon, Clark was told they had found the
106th Infantry, which was headquartered behind the 82nd, and he was going to
rejoin them (01:51:40:00)
o The next morning, Clark went from the 106th’s headquarters back to his battalion
outside the town of Fose, which was being heavily contested (01:52:32:00)
 Normally, if the 82nd ran into an resistance, they simply bypassed it for the
regular Army units to take care of and sometimes in the confusion, the
airborne soldiers and regular infantry ended up shooting at each other
(01:52:52:00)
 One day while Clark was standing in a line by the building being used as
the battalion’s aid station, he was talking with the soldier ahead of him
when they heard a whizzing sound and when they looked up, there was a
bullet lodged in the wall of the shed behind Clark (01:53:26:00)
 The other soldier said Clark had to get used to that because when
they were with the airborne, the soldiers did not know who was
shooting at them (01:54:01:00)
After Clark returned, the unit did not take too many casualties (01:54:17:00)
o On one occasion, the unit pulled back for two-days rest to change the barrels on
the howitzers and unit stayed in a farm building while they worked on each
howitzer (01:54:21:00)
 Each gun had a side pouch to destroy the gun before it could be captured
and one particular gun still had a grenade in the pouch (01:54:58:00)
 Apparently a German patrol had armed the grenade because when the
soldiers repairing the weapon opened the pouch to pull out the grenade, it
was live and they all had to jump behind the howitzer before the grenade
went off (01:55:19:00)
 One or two of the soldiers got some nicks and these were the only
casualties the battalion suffered (01:55:38:00)
At the time, the artillery battalion was attached to the 82nd Airborne (01:55:51:00)
o This meant the battalion received their targets from the 82nd and it also meant the
battalion was able to the use the 82nd’s supply and transportation unit, which was
superior to the 106th’s (01:56:03:00)
o By this time, the 592nd was being attached to different units in the area because
the 106th did not exist anymore; the only surviving units were the 592nd, the 591st,
and what remained of the 424th Infantry (01:56:27:00)
 The 424th was in the area but the 592nd did not supply fire support strictly
for them; the 592nd supplied fire support for any unit in the area that
needed it (01:56:50:00)
The day Clark arrived back at the battalion was the high point for the German counterattack (01:57:13:00)

�



o In the area, two or three rivers came together at a town names Trois Ponts and the
Americans did not destroy the bridges over the rivers; the engineers had the
bridges rigged for destruction but the German tanks ran out of gas (01:57:31:00)
After three days, the battalion left Fose and continued moving to new positions roughly
every three days to kept up with the 82nd (01:58:03:00)
o At one point, an officer found out his brother was a surgeon in the 30th Division,
which was on the left flank of the 82nd’s advance (01:58:26:00)
 Clark had been out several times during the week but he had to be careful
because German patrols left behind the retreating German forces were still
in the area; he eventually learned where he could and could not go by
visiting the battalion liaison officer and seeing where the pins were on his
map (01:59:02:00)
 Clark told the officer that he did not think he would be able to make it to
the bridges because of the German patrols but the officer said they were
going to go anyway (01:59:31:00)
 Clark and the officer went and found the officer’s brother; when they
returned, the liaison officer came and asked Clark what route he took and
when Clark showed him, the officer said he could remove that pin from
the map (01:59:47:00)
From then on, it was mostly getting ready to move to the new position; the soldiers had
learned to take care of their feet, cutting down the number of trench foot incidents, and as
far as the soldiers in the battalion were concerned, there was not much combat activity
(02:00:21:00)
o They did, however, have psychotic breakdowns in several of the soldiers because
they continued to stay on the line (02:00:48:00)

Disk 2
Length: 00:01:11:00
Rejoining his unit / End of the War (00:00:21:00)
 From when he rejoined the 592nd on Jan. 10th until Feb. 1st, Clark was on the road a lot of
the time because he had to continuously travel back and forth to headquarters;
headquarters would stay put while the rest of the unit advanced, sometimes up to twenty
or thirty miles (00:00:21:00)
o Clark had to take people back to the dentist and other routine things but it still
meant he was on the road a lot (00:00:54:00)
o When he was with the rest of the unit, Clark visited with the other soldiers and
they walked around but this did not happen often; Clark’s day revolved around
whatever they told him to do (00:01:06:00)
o Because of all the driving, Clark learned the roads in the area like the back of his
hand (00:01:35:00)
 For moral purposes, their commanders always tried to get the soldiers good food or
amenities whenever they could (00:01:51:00)
o For example, one time the soldiers had not taken a shower or bath in a month, so
the commanders got a special truck, parked it on the roadside and the soldiers

�










were able to go in an take a shower; the water was heated and although the
soldiers had to stand in the cold, it felt pretty good to take a shower (00:02:03:00)
o Another time, after they had been detached from the 82nd Airborne, the soldiers
had the chance to go into the resort town of Spa in Belgium, which not even the
Germans touched because they wanted to use it (00:02:32:00)
 When the soldiers got there, they had not shaved and were dirty but as
they went into the pools, there were Belgian women there to scrub them
down (00:03:25:00)
o Clark later found out that all the moral efforts and plans were organized by a
single officer at division headquarters (00:04:51:00)
o In March, the soldiers began drawing lots to go to Paris while the engineers were
clearing out the Siegfried Line for the final push to the Rhine river (00:05:02:00)
 Whenever someone went into Paris, he would bring back liquor and
candies for his comrades (00:05:29:00)
When the unit first moved into the area, there was still some activity going on because as
other divisions moved through the area for the push to the Rhine, the 592nd would be
temporarily assigned to them to provide support (00:05:47:00)
o However, the soldiers could not do much due in large part to the mud, which at
times was knee deep; engineers tried to put down corduroy log roads but the
soldiers still could not go much of anywhere (00:06:28:00)
When the soldiers drew lots, Clark was one of the soldiers who ended up winning a pass
into Paris, where he meet a girl who corresponded with him after he left (00:06:45:00)
o When Clark and the group of soldiers arrived in Paris, Glenn Miller had been
scheduled to be there at the same time but he never showed up (00:07:07:00)
o Although the soldiers got to go to the opera, some of the other attractions, such as
the Lourve, were not open (00:07:19:00)
One of Clark’s routine jobs was once a week, the medical officers would pull up dental
records for soldiers and Clark would drive them back and forth to the dentist thirty miles
away (00:07:51:00)
In one Belgian town, the Germans had just pulled out before the Americans arrived and
there was a Christmas tree in the corner of the house Clark stayed in (00:08:23:00)
o Someone wanted to take it down but the others told him not to touch it because it
might be bobby-trapped; the Germans bobby-trapped everything (00:08:44:00)
 In one town the unit took over, the soldiers could see where the SS
soldiers who had occupied the town had stolen the gold teeth from corpses
and bobby-trapped the bodies (00:09:01:00)
 In order to clear the bodies out of the way, the soldiers wrapped rope
around an ankle and dragged it a short distance to make sure there was not
a bomb underneath, which was not a pleasant situation (00:09:22:00)
Clark and the other soldiers did not have too many opportunities to interact with the local
civilian population (00:09:44:00)
At this point, the soldiers were either staying inside buildings or what remained of
buildings; sometimes even the soldiers who were part of the gun crews were able to take
turns staying inside a building (00:09:55:00)
Although the unit initially served in a small sliver of Germany, it was not until after V-E
day the Clark was able to go far into Germany (00:10:33:00)

�

o The unit did spend enough time that they earned a battle star for the Rhineland
although they did not have much in the way of activity (00:10:55:00)
o When V-E day occurred, the 106th returned from France, where it had been sent
the lost parts of the division could be reactivated, and all the soldiers spent time
training to head to the Pacific theater (00:11:15:00)
o Although he hates to say it, the Germans were more hospitable to the soldiers than
the French (00:11:55:00)
 The Germans were not necessarily apologetic but they let it be known that
they felt they were in a situation where they could not have acted
differently than they did (00:12:07:00)
 As soon as a building was damaged, the Germans, like the Belgians and
the Dutch, were immediately out to take care of the problem, clear the
roads and clean everything up (00:12:21:00)
o On one occasion around the 4th of July, the soldiers had what was called
“Operation Tally-Ho” in which every unit that was in or near a town would, at
four o’clock in the morning, hit the town for all sides to clear out any remaining
SS or armed resistance (00:12:51:00)
 Clark could speak a little German so he was sent with a special unit along
with his driver, who had grown up in Brooklyn with grandparents who
only spoke German (00:13:44:00)
 Clark’s group did not find anything except for accidentally discovering an
undercover group (00:13:59:00)
 The only thing Clark himself found was an antique shotgun with
ammunition Clark had never seen before; Clark thought the owner
was going to cry if they took the shotgun, so he told the group just
to leave it there (00:14:16:00)
 The Germans civilians did not bother the soldiers while they did their
sweeps; although they did not throw their arms around the soldiers but
they did not interfere (00:14:52:00)
 The soldiers visited with a couple of the ladies who could speak a little
English; one of the girls asked Clark’s driver where he was from because
she could not place his accent and he said “Brooklyn” (00:15:05:00)
th
The 106 was put back together in April 1945 while in Rhiems, France (00:15:38:00)
o There was large parade for the reactivation of several units: the 590th and 589th
Artillery Battalions as well as 422nd and 423rd Infantry Regiments; they had
recovered the artillery flags at some point and those were given to the reactivated
units (00:15:47:00)
o The next day, the soldiers received word that Roosevelt had died (00:16:20:00)
 Clark’s unit had a new commanding officer and he came out and said he
had received word the commander-in-chief had died; the officer said he
was not a politician but Roosevelt had been the commander-in-chief and
know the soldiers had a new one and the new one could not be all bad
because in World War I, he had served in the artillery (00:16:31:00)
o The division was rebuilt from the remaining soldiers, including Clark; there were
about one hundred soldiers left in the 592nd, so the commanders divided the
soldiers up as a cadre, gave them all promotions, and then filled in the open

�









spaces with other soldiers who were not longer needed, including Air Force
personnel, engineers, medical personnel, etc. (00:17:13:00)
Most of the division moved back to take care of German POWs but Clark’s reconstituted
unit was sent back to the French coast around the cities of St. Nazaire and Lorient, where
the German U-Boats operated from, with orders to clear out the remaining German forces
in the towns (00:18:11:00)
o Clark was at the front when the German surrender party came through; the
German forces surrendered first at St. Nazaire then at Lorient, which was where
the unit took its last casualty, after the war had officially ended (00:18:38:00)
When V-E day occurred, the soldiers were not exactly sure as the French had been
celebrating for a day or so already because they knew what was happening (00:19:04:00)
o The night after the French were celebrating, Clark was in the aid station when a
soldier who had been walking guard-duty came in and asked someone to take a
look at the back of his neck; he had been walking guard duty when he felt a sting
and when he put his hand on the back on his neck, it felt wet (00:19:18:00)
 Clark took the soldier under the light and said he had bullet in there;
someone celebrating had fired it and it had traveled under the skin and
come out the front of the soldier’s neck (00:19:58:00)
 The wounds were not bleeding too much, so Clark bandaged them,
checked to make sure the soldier had received his tetanus shot and the
soldier went back on patrol; Clark told him that he did not know if the
soldier would receive a Purple Heart from the wound (00:20:37:00)
o Within a few days of the war in Europe ending, the Army moved the unit again,
this time for more training (00:21:08:00)
During this time, Clark was the NCO for the 590th’s medical detachment and although he
was supposed to have a surgeon with him, for four months, he did not, meaning Clark
was in charge of everything for the medical detachment (00:21:15:00)
o The biggest trouble came from the French because Clark relied on them for
supplies but they did not want to give anything up (00:21:33:00)
th
The 66 Infantry division, which had its boat torpedoed off of Cherbourg, had been kept
in the area since Christmas in an effort to contain the Germans in the two port towns and
over time, the two sides had reached a partial agreement (00:21:40:00)
o When Clark’s unit arrived, they were told that the only restriction was that so long
as the Americans did not shell the German’s whorehouses, then the Germans
would not shell the American’s chow lines (00:21:58:00)
Over time, Clark had a problem because when the soldiers liberated U-Boat ports, the
officer who had organized the soldier’s moral events went in as part of a group to
organize the supplies (00:22:31:00)
o However, Clark could not find where to evacuate the wounded; the French did not
want them and the 66th Infantry was finally moving out (00:23:26:00)
o Clark did receive some supplied from the 66th Infantry as they moved out but
thankfully Clark’s unit was only there for a few days before they received orders
to move out (00:23:46:00)
o When the soldiers liberated the U-Boat supplies, there was liquor from what
seemed like everywhere and the moral officer took a large amount and turned it
over to the officers in Clark’s battalion, which was a mistake (00:23:56:00)

�



One time when Clark returned from trying to find a place to evacuate the
wounded, he had a bunch of drunk soldiers yelling at each other and being
sick; the soldiers had been drinking by the pint instead of the glass, so
Clark had more casualties to worry about (00:24:35:00)
 When he returned a second time, things had quieted down and Clark
decided to apologize to the owners of the orchard where the aid station
was set up (00:25:01:00)
 The farm had a still on it and although it was not the season, the
farmer had some supplies to run it; Clark wanted to keep his
soldiers away from the still, so he went to talk with the farmer,
who was real surly (00:25:22:00)
 The farmer said the soldiers had better not disturb his property and
the sooner the soldiers left, the better (00:25:55:00)
 As the battalion was leaving, all the soldiers had to go into a field and line
up while the commanding officer would go through the ranks; the officer
would stop in front of certain soldiers and watch them, although no one
knew why (00:26:10:00)
 Word eventually got passed down that the farmer claimed someone
had raped his daughter and he was sure it was a soldier in Clark’s
battalion (00:26:37:00)
 Clark knew his soldiers were too drunk to do anything like that and
the other soldiers were too new to try anything like that and sure
enough, the officer never pulled anyone out to accuse them
(00:26:47:00)
On the way up to Lorient, there was a terrible mix-up (00:27:08:00)
o The service battery column that Clark was a part of got broken up because there
was a fork in the road just before the town where the unit was supposed to be
staying; because the column had become stretched out and there was no MP at the
crossroads, the kitchen truck and a couple of other trucks ended up taking a wrong
turn (00:27:28:00)
o The battery commander took off after the trucks because he had planned a special
dinner with steaks he had gotten ahold of in celebration (00:28:28:00)
 The commander managed to get the trucks turned around while the battery
executive officer was left at the crossroads to direct traffic down the
correct road (00:28:54:00)
o There was a large crater at the crossroads and some of the trucks in the column
were having a hard time going around because they had been told that the
shoulders of the road had been mined and to stay off the road (00:29:17:00)
o Clark had passed through successfully and just as the kitchen truck was about to
make the turn, some ammo trucks were coming to the intersection as well; the
ammo trucks followed the executive officer’s directions and the truck right behind
Clark ended up hitting a mine that was still in the road (00:29:39:00)
 Clark initially thought there were two casualties because of the number of
body parts but it turned out to be only one; there were several soldiers who
were burned trying to get out the soldiers who had been in the back of the
truck (00:30:31:00)

�



o Clark missed out on part because he had gone four miles to set up the aid station;
the battalion commander eventually pulled up and told Clark to come with him
with his burn treatments because there were the burned soldiers (00:30:54:00)
o By the time Clark arrived, the medic who was with the group had lost his hearing
and had shrapnel wounds, but others knew where a hospital was in the area and
took him there (00:31:18:00)
o The executive officer was still on the scene and Clark ended up bandaging his
hands and other wounds (00:31:39:00)
After completing their operations in the area, the unit went all the way back to Mann,
Germany (00:32:13:00)
o The journey went much faster because the soldiers no longer used half tracks; the
ride was pleasant for the soldiers because the region the men were traveling
through was beautiful (00:32:20:00)
o For the rest of the war, Clark’s unit was not attached to the 106th, a blessing
because the 106th was terrible about taking care of their soldiers (00:32:45:00)
o There was a hospital set up in the area when Clark’s unit first arrived, although
they had no patients and were getting ready to move (00:33:09:00)
 Nevertheless, Clark went up there a couple of times to get supplies and
signatures on medical forms that he could not sign because he was not a
physician (00:33:21:00)
 However, when the nearby hospital finally did move, Clark had no one to
sign to forms, so he signed them himself; when an officer came around
later and asked Clark what he did about the monthly reports, Clark said he
signed them (00:33:58:00)
 The officer asked to see a form and pointed out that the place for
the signature said “M.D.”, something Clark was not; Clark
responded that he thought that meant “medical detachment”
(00:34:30:00)
o When the unit began training for Japan, there were some injuries; Clark did not
have any in his unit but the infantry that was training with them did (00:35:15:00)
 Apparently some shells that had been manufactured while the workers
were on strike had not been done right and they ended up wound the
soldiers (00:35:23:00)
They pulled Clark’s unit out about a week before the Air Force dropped the atomic
bombs on Japan and they sent Clark and another soldier who spoke German to get a
barrel of beer (00:35:47:00)
o Once the two had gotten to beer and got it back to the unit, they found that they
did not have any way to get the beer out, so they sent Clark and the other soldier
back into town (00:36:19:00)
o The other soldier did not know the German word for “spiket”, so he and Clark had
to try and demonstrate what they wanted before the German brewer figured out
what they wanted (00:36:33:00)
o After the two soldiers got a spiket, they put the barrel on sawhorses in front of the
aid station tent and Clark was placed in charge of making sure everything was
orderly (00:36:57:00)

�





o At some point, one of the soldiers had picked up a dog while the unit was
stationed in France and because they could not get the spiket to turn off all the
way, the dog would lay underneath it and lap up beer (00:37:15:00)
The soldiers had put up tents all in a row but the area they had chosen was muddy, so
someone called in an order for gravel to make paths (00:38:14:00)
o Someone had constructed a loudspeaker and turntable for records but the soldiers
only had one record, an annoyingly repetitious song called “One Meatball”
(00:38:30:00)
The unit was eventually pulled out from training after the bombs were dropped because
they knew the war was going to be over (00:39:08:00)
o The town where the unit was assigned was fairly large and Clark finally had a
physician assigned to him (00:39:14:00)
o However, on the same day he received an offer to go to Bieritz, so he never met
the new medical officer, although the others told Clark about him, including that
he was a drunk all the time (00:39:28:00)
Bieritz was one of two places the Army had set-up for certain soldiers to go to for
additional schooling (00:40:18:00)
o The selected soldiers rode on a train to Bieritz, only this time they were able to
ride in passenger cars, albeit old-style passenger cars, and there were still too
many soldiers for them to all sit down at once (00:40:58:00)
o It took the train three days to travel from where the unit was stationed in Germany
to Bieritz because they were sidelined as more important trains passed them
(00:41:13:00)
o Clark did not know what exactly he was going to, only that the Army had set up
some kind of school for anyone with college education who would probably be
going back to school, but there were no officers (00:41:27:00)
o The soldiers were not like a normal college population and Clark suspects that
some of the teachers were not ready for how the soldiers were; in some cases, the
soldiers had more worldly experience than the teachers and were anxious to get
the four years of the war behind them and get back to their studies (00:42:03:00)
 However, the instructors that Clark had were really good and very well
organized (00:42:31:00)
o However, Clark was unable to transfer any of the classes he took when he
returned to the United States because the instructors did not five the soldiers final
exams (00:42:39:00)
o Clark stayed at the school from August 6th until the middle of October when the
Army closed the school down (00:42:53:00)
o While the soldiers were attending the school, they stayed at the Ritz-Carlton hotel,
they were able to visit nearby beaches, etc. but the townspeople did not mix with
them very much (00:43:22:00)
 A local girl took to hanging out with Clark’s roommates but he believes
that was either because one of them said he was from Hollywood or the
girl was involved in the black market because Bieritz was so close to the
Spanish border (00:43:40:00)
 All of the hotel housekeepers and maids were Basque and some
were from Spain (00:44:12:00)

�

o
o

o

o

The soldiers ate GI food but once the chefs got through with it, it looked
nothing like what they had normally eaten (00:44:31:00)
When the school started, there were around one thousand soldiers attending but
by the time the Army closed the school, there were around six hundred students
remaining (00:44:39:00)
When the soldiers went to the beach, they received warnings to stay out of the
water when someone blew a whistle (00:45:04:00)
 When they first arrived, some of the soldiers were part of a French
dedication to the sea for drowning twenty-one Germans; while the
Germans occupied the area, the French forgot how to be lifeguards
(00:45:09:00)
One of Clark’s roommates was in a photography class where he got excellent
Army equipment and Clark still had his chauffeur license, meaning he could
commandeer a jeep whenever he wanted, so they two of them would drive down
into Spain (00:45:47:00)
 Spain was actually off-limits to the soldiers because some of the personnel
who were setting up the school had gone into Spain to attend a bullfight
and got into enough trouble that American soldiers were no longer
welcome in Spain (00:46:04:00)
There was a sports stadium in Bieritz where the soldiers went to watch soccer
games and Clark was amazed by their skill (00:46:51:00)

Post-Military Life / Reflections (00:47:47:00)
 Clark was finally discharged from the Army on Dec. 5th, 1945 (00:47:47:00)
 Clark and his wife had both been at Michigan State at the same time before the war and
while she went back to finish her degree as a laboratory technician, Clark went back to
retake some classes for a better grade so he could get into medical school (00:48:03:00)
o When he got back, Clark had applied to attend medical school at both Wayne
State University and the University of Michigan, although he did not have much
hope of getting in (00:48:34:00)
o However, his commanding officers sent in recommendation letters certifying the
activates Clark had done and that he could be a good doctor, which helped, as
well as letters from some of his former professors (00:48:46:00)
o Although Clark and his future wife were in classes together, they did not
necessarily spend time together (00:50:07:00)
o Michigan State went from around seven thousand students while Clark was there
then down to around four thousand students by the time the war ended; when the
war ended, Clark’s group was the first one back and overnight, the student
population went up to twenty-one thousand (00:50:32:00)
o In some of the more basic classes, the pre-med students also studied with
veterinary students and lab technician students, so Clark’s future wife was in
some of the larger classes with Clark (00:51:26:00)
o In one of the larger classes, both Clark and the future wife were seated in the front
row alphabetically and everyone in the row recalled having classes with one
another; however, in the previous classes, the wife answered to one name while
Clark remembered her having another name (00:51:47:00)

�






After the classes was over, Clark asked her if she was the same girl and
when she said she was, Clark figured that was the end of it (00:52:43:00)
o As it turned out, she had had a wartime marriage that only lasted a few months
and she went into the Navy to escape it, although she could not get a divorce
(00:52:57:00)
Clark’s are what he believes are similar to a lot of others; he would not ask anyone else to
go through it but he would not trade the experience for anything (00:53:51:00)
For his age, Clark had had a very varied experience before he joined the military, so his
situation was a little different than most; for example, while working in the hospital,
Clark had assisted with autopsies while most of the other soldiers had never seen a dead
body (00:54:05:00)
o He also already had a chauffeurs license and had plenty of different tasks which
prepared him well for just about anything (00:54:32:00)
o Clark had received enough medical training and done enough at Fort Dix that
when it came to treating the wounded, it was just another job; he treated one the
best he could then moved to the next person (00:54:43:00)
o He did not worry about people shooting at him because it was the soldiers’ job to
take care of that problem, although had Clark served in the South Pacific, it would
have been different (00:55:03:00)
 Clark knows some Marines corpsmen who had a totally different
experience than what he had (00:55:17:00)
o Clark was used to Michigan weather whereas some of the soldiers could not drive
or do anything similar to that (00:55:28:00)
On Dec. 13th, before the Battle of the Bulge had started, Clark had gone into St. Vith and
was returning by himself to where the 592nd was encamped (00:56:05:00)
o The weather was foggy and Clark was on the road from Schönberg to Bleialt; he
had just passed a gun emplacement manned entirely by African-Americans when
a plane came out of the fog flying around two hundred feet (00:56:27:00)
o Clark stopped the jeep and rolled underneath it, fearing a strafing run from the
German plane because he was right next to the gun emplacement; however, the
plane did not shoot, so Clark assumed that the German had found what he was
looking for and would coming back around but in reality, Clark believes it was
merely a reconnaissance plane because that are became under heavy German
gunfire when the attack began (00:57:18:00)
o Once Clark got back in his jeep and gone a little distance down the road, there
was another jeep parked and this one had a Red Cross girl in it; when Clark
stopped and asked what she was doing there, the girl said she was going to see her
brother (00:57:51:00)
 When Clark said it was a combat area and civilians were not allowed, the
girl said she had received special permission and that if she reported to the
headquarters of the 422nd, they would be able to tell her where her brother
was (00:58:10:00)
o Clark told her she was on the right path but just before Bleialt, she arrive at the
crossroads and every so often, the Germans would throw a shell in to keep
everyone alert; Clark gave her directions on how to get to the 422nd’s

�

headquarters that they shared with the 590th and told her to ask them where he
was stationed (00:58:48:00)
o The girl explained that she and her brother were twins and after she saw him, she
was going to come back with a birthday cake, although it was not their birthday;
Clark wished her luck and the total conversation lasted only about five minutes
total (00:59:28:00)
o Clark thought that someone else must have saw the girl and sixty-four years later,
he was giving an interview to another veteran’s daughter to help fill in her father’s
experience; her father had served with the 590th and had written very detailed
letters home (00:59:48:00)
 Clark and the daughter were going through the letters and when Clark told
her the story, the daughter got up and went into her computer room
because that day, she had gotten in touch with a woman who had been
featured by the University of Illinois as a Red Cross girl during the Battle
of the Bulge (01:00:52:00)
 The daughter brought back a CD, on which was a picture a woman in a
Red Cross uniform talking about how she had went to see her twin brother
and after see him the first time, gone back, baked him a cake, and brought
it back to him (01:02:27:00)
 The woman then claimed to have gone to see her brother again
when the Battle of the Bulge began to take the cake to him, but
Clark told the daughter that was not right; there was no way
anyone was on the Schönberg to Bleialt road without him seeing it
because he was up and down it two or three times that day and
there were not Red Cross people on the road (01:04:05:00)
 The daughter gave Clark the woman’s number and when he called it, the
woman said she did not remember anyone stopping her on the road the
first time she went up (01:04:59:00)
 As it turned out, the girl had become stuck in the traffic jam
between St. Vith and Bastonge and eventually made it to another
headquarters a day later (01:05:33:00)
 The woman asked where Clark was calling from and when he said
Michigan, she asked where in Michigan because she had a cottage near
Newaygo, Michigan that she visited every summer (01:06:02:00)
 The woman said that when the went up to the cottage that summer,
she would look Clark up (01:06:42:00)
o It was sheer coincidence that Clark even managed to meet the other soldier’s
daughter; he had been asked to be taken off the 106th Infantry Association’s
mailing list but she managed to get a hold of him before they did so (01:07:53:00)
 Clark put her in touch with another soldier who had more experiences with
her father but when he died, she went back and realized that because Clark
had served in the same area, he would be able to fill in some blanks in the
story she had (01:09:12:00)
Clark discusses the experiences of a fellow soldier, including when the soldier had to
transfer from one LST to another during the channel-crossing storm, attending to generals
at a hospital and the soldiers experiences as a POW (01:10:13:00)

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Boring, Frank</text>
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                <text>James Clark was born in September 1920 in a farmhouse in Wayne County, Michigan. Growing up, Clark had a difficult childhood, including a diagnosis of tuberculosis, moving to Arizona for treatment and back to Michigan, and his family losing their property during the Great Depression. After high school, Clark attended both Eastern Michigan University and Michigan State University before receiving his draft card in 1942. After the Army drafted Clark, he spent two years in different programs before deploying with the 106th Infantry division to Belgium. During the Battle of the Bulge, Clark was wounded and evacuated back from the line for nearly a month before returning to his unit, where he served for the rest of the war. Following the war, Clark attended a school the Army had set up in southern France.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Dr. James Clark
Cold War
45 minutes 37 seconds
(00:00:39) Early Life
-Born in Oak Park, Illinois on September 7, 1939
-Grew up in Forest Park, Illinois
-His father was in sales
-His mother was a housewife and then went back to teaching when he was older
-He was an only child
-He attended and graduated from Proviso High School in 1957
(00:01:38) College &amp; Reserve Officers’ Training Corps
-He considered college while he was in high school
-He decided on Miami University in Oxford, Ohio
-He majored in secondary education with a minor in comprehensive social studies
-He volunteered for the Navy Reserve Officers’ Training Corps
-He was guaranteed a commission if he graduated from college
-Felt the Navy ROTC was better than the Air Force ROTC
-There was weekly rifle and drill
-First year was focused on naval history and orientation
-Second year was focused on weapons and gunnery
-Third year was focused on navigation and engineering
-Fourth year was focused on leadership skills
-Learned not to come off as arrogant
-Just introduce yourself and be personable
-Emphasize camaraderie and professionalism
-He was a contract student
-This meant he only had to go to one summer training session
-Did it between his junior and senior year
-Went to San Diego and did a six week training cruise on a destroyer
-He was also able to visit Pensacola, Florida
-He was never introduced to submarines during his time in the ROTC
-There were eight midshipmen in the junior officer billet during the training cruise
-He would stand watch and work alongside communication and personnel officers
-He graduated and received his commission in June 1961
(00:07:13) Reporting to the USS Purdy
-His orders were to report to the USS Purdy DD 734 at Newport, Rhode Island in July 1961
-He was redirected to the Boston Shipyard where the Purdy was in dry dock
-He stayed there for two months
-His work consisted of supervising shipyard workers
-He also started to get to know the ship
-While at the Boston Shipyard he had some downtime and was able to visit Boston
-There was a mix of new officers and career officers

�(00:09:42) Refresher Training
-In September 1961 he set sail with the Purdy
-They sailed to Newport through the Cape Cod Canal
-Stayed at Newport for a short time
-After Newport they sailed down to New Jersey to load the ship’s ammunition
-It had 5 inch/38 caliber guns
-Three twin mounts
-40mm antiaircraft guns
-Torpedoes and depth charges
-After New Jersey they sailed back to Newport
-Sailed down to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba for refresher training
-The training was difficult and fast paced
-It was hot and humid
-The purpose of the voyage was to get the ship into fighting condition
-They were at sea every day
-They were running through scenarios to test their readiness
-Tracking a submarine
-Antiaircraft target practice
-Navigation and maneuvering
-Cryptography exercises
-At general quarters for eight hours every day
-After the refresher training they sailed back to Newport for two months
(00:12:40) Mediterranean Sea
-Sailed out and joined the 6th Fleet
-Stayed in the Mediterranean from February 1962 to August 1962
-They stopped in several ports in Europe
-Cannes, France; Naples and Genoa, Italy; Crete; Istanbul, Turkey; Greece; Sardinia
-Civilian attitude of Americans varied from port to port
-Some people saw Americans as a source of money
-In Naples they had problems with American sailors and weren’t as hospitable
-In Istanbul and Greece they were hospitable
-He didn’t feel any Cold War tension or anti-American sentiments
-He doesn’t recall there being any problems in the Middle East at the time of that voyage
-He got along well with the other crewmen
-Everyone was friendly and he got to know everyone around him
-The single men fared better than the married men
-They had black, Filipino, and Hispanic sailors working alongside them without problems
-He remembers one sailor that got seasick all the time
-They didn’t sail through any storms en route to and returning from Europe
(00:19:27) Cuban Missile Crisis
-After returning from the Mediterranean they didn’t stay in Newport long
-The Cuban Missile Crisis flared up and they were sent to the Caribbean
-They sailed independently to Guantanamo Bay
-From there sailed to San Juan, Puerto Rico
-They were battle ready all the time
-News trickled in on the teletype that was on the ship

�-They didn’t have TV or radio on the ship
-They stayed in the Caribbean until December 1962
-Didn’t realize the gravity of the situation until they got to Cuba
(00:22:01) Trinidad
-In the spring of 1963 they sailed to Trinidad
-They were tracking a ship that was sailing to Cuba and was considered suspicious
-Followed it to Port Au Spain, Trinidad where it was in port for a while
-After it left they followed it all the way into the Atlantic Ocean
-He had shore patrol duty while in Trinidad
-He saw extreme wealthy and extreme poverty
-The population was diverse
-There were lots of restaurants to visit
-There were some discipline problems
-He didn’t see any confrontations first hand though
-After that they sailed back to Newport
(00:24:45) Patrolling the Dominican Republic
-During the refresher training they were given a weekend off to Jamaica
-En route they were ordered to turn back and sail towards Cuba
-There was a problem in the Dominican Republic
-There orders were to patrol the waters there and did that for days
(00:25:49) Leaving Active Duty and Joining the Reserves
-He left the USS Purdy in May 1963 because his enlistment was up
-He got a job teaching at a middle school in Oakwood, Ohio
-Did it for a year
-Returned to Miami University for graduate school
-Completed his master’s degree
-He decided to enlist in the active reserves
-Keep his skills up
-Served as a training officer, supervisor, commanding officer, and executive officer
-Only had to train for two weeks out of the year
-He worked in an administrative position
-He didn’t notice many men that were trying to get into the reserves during the Vietnam War
-He was in a reserve unit that was stationed in Bloomington, Indiana
-There was fear that protestors would attack the reserve center
-They were given guards
-Some men avoided wearing uniforms near the university
-He wound up leaving the active reserves as a captain
-There were no longer any positions open that required a captain
-He was informally retired in the 1980s
-He formally retired in 1991
(00:32:29) Getting Promoted to Captain
-He went before an officer review board
-They would see if you were volunteering for more responsibility
-Checked to see if you were staying in shape and passing your physical exams
-Checked to make sure that you were being consistently professional
-It was very competitive to get promoted

�-There were no required schools to attend or programs to complete to get promoted
-The two weeks of training each year was enough
(00:35:05) Women in the Navy
-When he first went into the Reserves there was only one woman in his unit
-As time went on more women joined
-He worked with a female officer
-He also worked with a female journalist
-The Navy began to allow women into the ROTC and into the military academies
(00:37:27) Other Details of Service
-He didn’t like to go out for drill during ROTC
-He had a lot of good times in the Navy
-Doesn’t recall there being any significant bad times in the Navy
-Most Vietnam veterans avoided joining the Reserves or having anything to do with the military
-They were better and resentful towards anything military
-He remembers one young man that joined the Reserves after going to Vietnam
-He only recalls one man being called up for service during the Vietnam War
-All of the people he served with were professional about the protests and anti-war sentiments
(00:41:25) Reflections on Service
-One of the best decisions of his life was to join the ROTC
-It was a great opportunity
-His service was a positive experience
-He recommends military service
-It taught him how to be responsible for other people
-It taught him professional and personal skills
-Especially how to work with people
-It was a great chance to see the United States and the rest of the world
-He enjoyed the discipline
(00:42:50) Life after the Navy
-He worked as an assistant dean at Miami University
-He went to school at Indiana University and got his doctorate
-He became a dean at Hanover College, Indiana
-He worked for the federal government for a total of twenty five years
-He worked as investigator for the Department of Defense
-Specifically dealing with discrimination and harassment complaints
-His Navy experience helped him with his civilian work
-Knew how the military worked by the time he worked for the Dept. of Defense

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Boring, Frank</text>
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                    <text>GV043-07
Connected Exhibit Interviews
Interviewee: Kayla Clarke
Interviewers: Gayle Schaub, Cara Cadena
Date: May 23, 2016
Gayle:

Kayla:

We can start anywhere you want, if you want to talk about the experience of
transitioning to Grand Valley? How you came, why you came to Grand Valley?
Whatever.
00:11 Okay, so I actually came here, my husband’s still active duty in the military, he’s in
the Marine Corps still, and we actually kind of were just thrown in Michigan. So, we
got, he’s in the Wyoming area, that’s where he’s working out of and I just knew
after I got out of that military I’m going to go straight to college somewhere and
Grand Valley was just kind of there, you know? And it just happened to be the one I
picked, it wasn’t like…I didn’t really have any preference because I didn’t know I was
going to Michigan, so we thought we were going to Florida so I had had another
idea in my mind of where I was going so, but I was really happy cause I didn’t realize
how welcoming they were with the veterans and stuff. However, I didn’t really
discover the veteran resources until I, I think I ran into Troy who works…he works
with Steve I can’t remember his last name, but anyways he just like mentioned
something like “oh yeah, the Veteran’s Office” so, then I kind of ran into Steven and
that’s how I really got involved with the Veteran Network. But, I realized there’s a
lot of helpful resources for us. So, I came here and I was originally going to be a
social…or no a sociology -- actually it was, I was doing exercise science then I turned
to sociology pretty quickly, then I realized “no, I don’t like sociology” so now I’m in
the liberal art program which I actually like, and I’ll be done

Gayle:

Lib studies?

Kayla:

Yeah.

Gayle:

Okay.

Kayla:

2:01

So I’ll actually be finishing this summer, and I’ll have three courses after.

Cara:

Oh, nice.

Kayla:

So, I’m almost done, kind of, but…I don’t really know where to go from here now…

Gayle:

When you say you got involved with the veteran’s program what are you, I don’t
know, what are you involved in?

Kayla:

2:23

Ah yes, I’m actually interning with Steven Lipnicki. I’m basically just trying to get the
resources out there, trying to get more veterans at Grand Valley where the
community, and the resources that are offered at Grand Valley and outside of Grand
Valley, and just even trying to help them find jobs, and maybe even living
arrangements.

�Gayle:
Kayla:

Is that the kind of resources you’re talking about? Are you talking about academic
resources, or financial, or all?
3:00

Yeah, like all of it. The academic resources, you know, would be pretty much like any
student but we would be able to personally direct them, and have them involved
because Marq, who works with Steven, that’s his main job; to work with veterans,
specifically. And he’s a veteran also so there’s this sense of, like community there,
and you know “oh yeah, you’re a part, like, you understand” and you know it’s
easier for veterans, some veterans it’s easier for them to talk to other veterans
because there’s…

Cara:

a bond

Gayle:

A shared history

Kayla:

3:41

Cara:
Kayla:

(agrees) Were you in the Marine Corps too?
3:58

Cara:
Kayla:

Yeah, I was in the Marine Corps and for me personally the transition wasn’t nearly
as, I don’t feel like it was too bad. I mean, I feel like this was a little bit more
challenging, considering I hadn’t been in college for probably five years, and I was at
a really small southern community college which is way different. So, my transition
was a little challenging in the aspect of I didn’t feel like I was academically prepared,
it was more challenging for me, but I figured out “ok, what do I need to do?” and I
just worked hard.
Where is the Veteran’s Office?

4:51

Gayle:
Kayla:

Yeah, a shared…so, a lot of students don’t know that so we’re trying to get that out
there and trying to like figure out ways - “how can we get students aware of..?”
Especially transitioning out of the military, I guess I could talk about that?

It’s like, actually well the Career Center here, at this downtown campus. So it’s here.
I think they even have, well when you first come here you have to go to the
Admissions Building there’s the veteran representative side, and I’m hoping that we
can maybe get where they, since they’re they first people they go to that they can
give them like a welcome package so then they kind of know where to go. We’ve
been working on a checklist so then they at least know “oh, these are the things we
need to do.” Because in the military we are used to being kind of directive like “this
is what you need to do” and when you come out it’s kind of like getting, being an
adult in the civilian world, okay you’re free; go be a grown up. Huh?
Sorry.

5:57

Oh no, I was just going to say that I think the most challenging position is getting
used to doing everything without being babysat, and having somebody tell you “Ok,
this is what you’re going to do and what you need to do.” And you kind of really
have to find stuff, and as easy as it seems, I think it might be challenging for new
students coming in that are veterans, finding those resources.

�Gayle:
Kayla:

Well, and adjusting to a new set of expectations, because the expectations in the
military are that you’ll follow directions.
6:28

Gayle:
Kayla:

So you entered the military not right out of high school then?
7:09

Cara:
Kayla:

7:52

Yeah, we deployed together so we actually met when we were in Thailand so that’s
kind of how everything happened. I got out, he stayed in and he’s doing the
recruiting up here. So, I don’t really know where else to go from here.
So you were on duty in Thailand?

8:16

Gayle:
Kayla:

No, I was, I went in around twenty-two, so I was almost twenty-three. But yeah, so I
had gone to junior college for two years, I finished my associates degree and then I
kind of did this little soul searching for a couple, like a year or two and then I got on
track and I was like “Ok, I’m going to join the military.” And I needed a challenge
because I felt like I was not, I didn’t have direction and it really put me where I want
to be now. Now I’m married and have a kid.
So you met your husband in the Marine Corps?

Gayle:
Kayla:

Yeah. So, for me though, I’ve always been like very outgoing and open minded so I
didn’t have a problem approaching people and I know that’s not probably how a lot
of people are. Maybe especially veterans cause a lot of them I’ve run into are males
and males are quite as, typically males aren’t quite as open as females are. So, that’s
kind of probably been a really challenging part of it.

Well no, we were doing a training op., I was in Okinawa, Japan and I was stationed
in Okinawa and after we deployed in Okinawa we did some training ops. Like in
Korea and, where else did we go? We went to Thailand, Korea, Twenty-Nine Palms
in California and I feel like there was another place, I can’t remember right now. But
we did travel a lot, and then I went State-side and I was at North Carolina for the
end of my enlistment, so after I got out my husband still stayed in and I had a little
one and we moved here.
So you did four years?

9:03

I did four years, yes. So, yeah I didn’t really know I was going up here. We don’t have
family, friends, nothing. So I kind of had to find resources and just like really look out
because even up here we have limited military resources. We don’t have any
military institutions up here, so it’s not like we can go on base and be like “hey, help
us out.” So, we have to really search for everything, and I was kind of prepared for
that because I had been a civilian before I went in-- kind of an adult for a while--so I
knew that it was challenging and I had always warned a lot of my friends that were
in that went from high school like “hey, you know it is a lot different and you
complain right now but I promise you it’s going to be a lot more difficult” because
they pretty much give everything to you when you’re in there. And that was the
difference, we had everything given to us; we had housing, we had health insurance,
you know, dental, eating, like you could go to the chow hall, you know? You didn’t

�have to worry about all these things that you do when you get out. Your paycheck
was what you wanted to do with it. So, luckily if you’re going to college when you
get out, you do have that GI bill which will give you a housing, a monthly allowance
but it’s not enough to live off of. I mean it’s a good little chunk but you definitely, if
you’re living on your own, you’re going to need a little bit more money than that.
Cara:

You got to figure it out.

Kayla:

Yeah.

Gayle:

And well some, some might be dealing with some rough experiences as well. If
they’ve seen combat.

Kayla:

Cara:
Kayla:

Cara:

Kayla:

Gayle:
Kayla:
Cara:
Kayla:

10:49 Yeah, and I mean luckily with me, even when I deployed I just, I really handle…I try
to handle a situation in a more positive aspect. So, I know how to cope. I can talk
about it, for me that’s my way of coping. I can go to the gym. I can go and release
my stress that way. That’s how I do it, even now because we’re in an extremely
stressful situation with not having anyone and my husband works ninety to a
hundred hours a week.
Oh my gosh.
11:20 Yeah, he works from 7 in the morning till 10:30 at night, Monday through Friday.
Then Saturdays are usually 8 am to 8 pm. So, either way, and then, even yesterday,
on some Sundays he has to go in because he’ll have kids that are shipping to go to
boot camp. He was there for like three hours, so, I mean, and he has to go get his
haircuts on Sundays. So either way there’s always something, like going on with his
work and so I think that’s been the most challenging for me, is having to do -- feeling
like a single mother. And then not have family up here, it’s like…I’m already upset
because…
Yeah I know. I know the feeling. We were out in Montana for years and we had kids
and there was no one out there, so we came all the way to Michigan for some
support.
12:20 Yeah, no it’s horrible. I mean like it’s just not having those resources…and I’m trying
not to get sensitive now, but so yeah. But I don’t know that’s part of our most
challenging part.
So how long have you been here, then?
12:40 About a year and a half now. And we have another year and a half so we’re like
halfway there.
And you’ll have gotten a college degree by the time you…
12:48 Yeah, like we always, I mean I feel bad for him because he never, I mean he’s seen he gets to see our son like, once a week. I try to keep them up late but, you know.
Yeah, so I think just trying to adjust to…

�Gayle:

And he’s too busy to even feel bad about it.

Kayla:

Yeah.

Gayle:

I mean, reality; when we first moved here it was really hard because we had lived
overseas for seven years so when we came here, you know, we don’t have family
here either, so we didn’t know anybody and I was like “this is so lonely.” And I was a
stay-at-home mom, so I feel like I felt it a lot more than Mark did because Mark had
this new job, and he was busy, and he was having to prepare for classes so…

Kayla:

13:33 Yeah and well luckily I’m staying busy too now. If I weren’t, because when I first
moved here, probably February through May, because I wasn’t in school, because I
couldn’t, cause we got here whenever the semester, I was like dying on the inside
because I’m like “What do I…?” and there was snow, so I was like “oh my gosh, I
need to do something” And when I started school I was like “oh, this is too much!”
but no, so it’s just like finding a balance is so hard. But, I don’t know, I always think
“whenever we’re done it’ll be awesome.” We’re probably going to be, this is
probably one of the most challenging things we’re going to experience, so…

Gayle:

And this crazy schedule is temporary.

Kayla:

Yeah, it’s three years so yeah, I mean.

Cara:

And you’re in year two.

Kayla:

Yes, so…

Gayle:

Ok, that’s good.

Kayla:

Gayle:
Kayla

Cara:
Kayla:

14:30 And he already got through the hard part because like you know the first year of
doing, cause like this isn’t his job typically. This is temporary. It’s, he has to do it
though, it’s part of like it’s, it’s a career enhancer.
Ok.
14:48 If you want to stay in you have to do, it’s called a B-billet. That’s what it is. And it’s a
hardship duty job, and it is extremely demanding and they don’t care about your
family. They really don’t. I mean, we were moving all weekend and his boss knows
we don’t have anyone and I’m pregnant and like he was supposed to help us and he
was like “oh, sorry, my son has a baseball game.” And I’m like, “his game’s not all
day,” but it’s like, “really?” We don’t have like those resources. So then of course
they knew he had to go in yesterday and he was filling in for the other guy because
that guy’s like, “oh sorry, I was hungover” and it’s like, “really?” Like, “we’re
moving!”
Yeah, you have kids and you’re pregnant. You can’t lift anything.
15:48 Yeah, so, well I, I work out so I can, I do lift stuff. I just don’t overdo it. I might have
probably lifted more than I should’ve but what am I supposed to do? Like we had a
guy help on Saturday but then on Sunday we were like okay, we gotta finish up.

�Cara:
Kayla:

Cara:
Kayla:

Gayle:

Kayla:

Gayle:
Kayla:

Gayle:

Kayla:

So you’re in the new..?
16:07 Yeah we’re done we’re in the other house and we’re…I think this is just a really
challenging time for us cause we’re like transitioning again. Because we had to move
cause I had a crazy neighbor. A sex offender.
Oh no!
16:22 I know, it was weird and I guess he was watching. I don’t know; it was the weirdest
thing. It’s so weird. I know! I was like ‘What is going on in Michigan?’ Oh I Know, I’m
like, not here. I just feel like I’m like you know I’m like ‘What is going on? Why am I
like going through all this?’ No, but it’s fine because typically like none of this stuff
ever happens. We’re good though but…
Yeah okay, let’s, let’s switch focus and say think of a class or experience you’ve had
at Grand Valley that you could say… or let’s just say what was one of the best
experiences you’ve had at Grand Valley so far?
17:05 Well I would think that my internship has been a good experience because I’ve been
able to network and meet a lot of new people. [door closes] I’ve been able to just
get out there and actually meet a lot of other veterans and I got to do a lot of, like I
said, networking so that’s been really nice because my job’s not just been sitting at a
desk. And I think that’s been the best thing is getting involved with the Veteran’s
Network.
And how did that internship come about? You came and talked and…?
17:45 Well I went over to, like I said I had accidentally bumped into Troy (Farley)
somehow, when I was like walking somewhere and I don’t know how we got on the
conversation of military and veterans but he was like “oh yeah,” so I had spoken
with Steven and I had kind of gotten in touch with him like “hey,” you know, and I
think Brian Jabara, so he was saying, we were talking about internships, and he was
like “Yeah one of the guys works over there with Steven Lipnicki,” so I got in touch
with him. And I kind of bugged him, not in like a bad way, but I was always like
“hey,” and then he was just like “you know, I want to hire you,” So I worked as a
student working with him and then it turned into my internship but it’s kind of been
able to put me out there and has just given me the opportunity to meet new
people. I think that’s been the best experience.
And you don’t feel like having been a female in the military? You sound like very, I
don’t know, that your social skills are such that you were strong regardless of
whatever the situation was. Where you think sometimes males might have a little
bit more…
19:05 Well I mean when I first had got in of course, and I got to the fleet, it was really
challenging. I had a lot of, you know, it was almost like going to high school and
being accepted into a community, and being rejected, like, so I had to kind of build a
reputation. Like you had to work to get in the group it felt like, so…

�Gayle:

The mostly male group?

Kayla:

Yeah, even the females were really tough on you, like when you first, yeah, I
thought it would be like “hey, c’mon you’re part of us, like we’re the seven percent,
c’mon!” No. It wasn’t like that. I mean, I don’t know if that’s everywhere, but for me
personally and I’ve seen it with other females coming in. It’s not always welcoming.
So that was definitely challenging and I think I just learned how to, like, it helped me
build my character and make me stronger in that sense like “you know what I got to
be a little tougher and just show them, like, I can do this.” So I just worked hard to
get where I needed to be and I think that’s always helped, that part of the military,
just always pushing through challenges and stuff. That has helped me really a lot in
college too because I don’t know if I would be able to do this if I hadn’t had that
experience. Because our situation now, I can’t even imagine doing this before
because I would give up on things sometimes. Like I would do it but I never would
try that hard. So, I always just push through everything with school and even though
it’s been…I guess another good experience is all the challenges I’ve been through
and like conquered with school and just trying and saying “oh, I’m going to fail” and
then I end up really doing well. So, I mean I always doubt myself but in the end I still
do fine. So, I think just knowing that I’m like constantly getting to that next step has,
like, really made me feel like ‘oh yes, I’m doing this I’m going to get to where I need
to be someday’. So I just take it a day at a time.

Gayle:

What do you think it was about lib studies that was…what drew you to that?

Kayla:

21:30 Well I really wanted to do social work and the program was, it’s very specific. Like, in
the fall you would start a portion so I wouldn’t have been able to start the program
until I think actually this fall would’ve been when I could’ve actually really started,
and I wouldn’t have been done until the following spring after we leave. So I didn’t, I
was like I don’t want to do that.

Gayle:
Kayla:

The timing, it was wrong?
22:04 Yeah, so I was like what can I…? Because I was, like, I eventually want to get my
masters in social work. I mean that’s a long-term goal, we’ll see, but I had talked to
some advisors that I had just called Gr- you know just different advisors, I think - just
the advising department and I was like “so, this is what I want to do. I’m on this
timeframe. What’s a good degree, like an undergraduate degree, like a gateway
degree to social work?” and they were like “Oh, you could do sociology, psychology,
or lib studies.” And I didn’t know what lib studies really was so I was like “oh,
sociology” cause that sounds cool and I just realized that I didn’t really like that was
so set on a certain way and it wasn’t for me, and then liberal studies was more
open-minded, trying to get different perspectives and I was like, “ok, I kind of like
that.” It’s a little challenging but it’s not just the one way like “oh we’re taking
statistical data and this is how things are because based off of this, it’s more like,
“well it could be this, and this, and this.” So it attracted me and they were saying,
like I said, it’s a good degree that could, you can use towards going into social work.
So, I was like “ok I’ll do this” and I can mold it into what I want so I can put an

�emphasis on like I’m doing mine on social issues for veterans, cause I want to work
with veterans or even active-duty military and families. So knowing that I have a
specific degree, like geared towards something and I’m doing like, my internship is
with the Veteran’s Network I’m hoping it’ll just build my resume.
Cara:
Kayla:

Cara:
Kayla:

That’s great. It sounds like you’re creating a healthy resume and on the right path.
23:58 I hope so cause it seems good right now but you know once you get out there it’s
not always that easy so I’m preparing myself for more challenges so it’ll be fine now,
so…
Where do you guys go now after Michigan?
24:10 I don’t know, actually we’ll know probably…at least in another year probably like in
the summer of next year or the fall. And it would be between North Carolina,
Hawaii, or Okinawa again so, or California, but we’re not putting that on our list, but
it could happen. But there is four choices so that would be the places we’re going so
I’ve kind of had ideas of where we go next, what I can do so, because if I got to
Okinawa I’m not going to be able to do social work. I wouldn’t be able to do, they
don’t have those programs because it’s a small island and yeah. But Hawaii does and
I know North Carolina does so. But I’m still okay with whatever we do.

Gayle:

But you’re informing yourself and figuring out…

Kayla:

Yeah just so

Gayle:

Keep moving forward

Kayla:

Yeah cause, I mean

Cara:

What else are you going to do?

Kayla:

Gayle:

Kayla:
Gayle:
Kayla:

25:09 Well we don’t have really a choice we have to, I mean for me I have to plan ahead
anyways because I, I can’t really depend on anyone else anyway. I mean as much as
my husband would love to be there, he can’t. Unfortunately his career comes first, it
seems like, especially when you’re in the military it’s, your career is over everything
and he has no choice because his contract so.
So in your classes have you met, or have you interacted with other kind of, not in
your situation because yours is pretty unique, but other parents, other
nontraditional students who are…
25:49 I have ran into parents and, just a few, I’ve ran into veterans too, quite a few
actually.
In your classes?
26:03 Yeah I, actually usually every semester I at least have once class with a, like in the
Marine Corps veteran that’s usually who I connect the most with. But I have met
some females that were mothers too that I’ve really connected with but typically,
like a traditional student, I – nothing against them – I’m just in a different part of life

�so it’s hard for me to be on that same page and really have a good connection. So.
But, yeah I’ve ran into, I think that’s definitely where I end up like, like levitating to is
the nontraditional students cause they’re typically on the same page. I’ve been in
their shoes so. I loved that experience like I loved that fun, being-young college
traditional experience but I just, I can’t do it anymore.
Gayle:
Kayla:

Gayle:
Kayla:

Gayle:
Kayla:

Are the veterans in your classes that you’ve even interacted with, are they aware of
all the services or is this an opportunity for you?
27:04 I typically try to be like “hey!” you know? I try to let them know but not always, a lot
of them aren’t really familiar that they can apply for FAFSA and actually get that, the
financial aid assistance and that Pell grant and a lot of them think “oh, well we’re
already getting money” but it’s like, yeah but if you don’t, if you don’t have the right
income, you can...and typically most of them are living on their own so they don’t
have a lot of income, so they get the Pell grant, most of them. But a lot of
them…there’s at least a third I think that don’t know about it or don’t apply for it. So
that’s something we’re trying to really let them know like, “hey!” Cause we know,
you know it is a struggle even as a college student in general it’s just doing
things…especially if you’re on your own, like out of the military you’ve been on your
own, kind of, without your family for four years minimum, and you don’t really want
to move back home unless you like absolutely have to, so a lot of them want to be
on their own. So I always try to be like, “hey, did you apply for this?” or…some
would say yeah, but actually a lot don’t, you know?
How do you know that they are? It just comes up in class? Do they just identify?
When there’s another veteran in the class?
28:22 Typically, I feel like a lot of times when I’m going into class there’s an introduction,
you know? And a lot of...almost every single person that’s been, especially in the
Marine Corps, they always say it.
Okay
28:35 I don’t know what it is. There is something about them. I guess because it’s such an
elite community and small. I don’t know. I just always notice. You know when
there’s a marine because they always have stickers. You always see…

Cara:

There’s something that tells…

Kayla:

Yeah. They always are proud of that so…

Gayle:

It becomes part of your identity, and also I think, yeah, if you’ve done something so
intense, you want to share it with others.

Kayla:

29:02 Yeah, and it’s good whenever you meet someone, you know? Especially in the
military, it’s just like “Oh! Hey!” But yeah, so that’s usually how. It’s always the
introductions. Then I’m always like, “hey! Let’s hang out! I’m going to come sit by
you!” So yeah, that’s usually how it always happens. Or eventually in class somehow

�it gets brought up, if we’re doing something…”oh yeah, when I was in…” It’s like
“ok.” So it always gets brought up some time or another, yeah.
Gayle:

I’m trying to think of some more questions.

Kayla:

I know I totally went off track a lot.

Gayle:

There’s no track. It’s fine.

Kayla:
Gayle:

29:47 I know but I was like “I don’t even know where I’m going with some of this.” I’m like,
I feel like I’m talking to a psychologist on some parts. I’m like “yeah, my problems!”
No, it’s great, I think just being able to say some things, and every time you say
things, believe it or not, we’ve heard some of these things in different forms, in
different contexts. We’ve heard them over and over. Like not finding out about
these resources until a little bit later. A lot of people said “I’d wish I’d known that
earlier,” or…

Kayla:

30:20 Yeah, I mean the Veterans Network, I didn’t even find out really until the first
summer I was here. But, in the summer it’s not quite as, like… I came here in the
summer semester, so it’s not really as much people and not as many…you know,
you don’t have all those resources put out there. It’s a lot smaller. I love the summer
though, personally. But, I don’t think I would’ve known a lot about it unless I had ran
into somebody by accident almost, you know.

Gayle:

But the other part that I really, really love that other students will hear is something
you said, that other students have also said, which is “I bugged Steve, I went back, I
did this.” So I love the fact that students are going to hear, sometimes the person
that’s going to make things happen for you is you.

Kayla:

31:14 Yeah, and that’s what you know, it’s…I think that’s the biggest challenge for the
veteran community. If we’re going to be, like, a specific community. It’s because
that’s not quite as easy and I’ve ran into a lot of people that just…it’s not easy for
them to do that on their own because they never had to really do that. Unless
they’ve been in for a long time, but if you’ve done just four years, which is most of
the people that are coming from the military, they were given direction most of
that.

Gayle:

Well it’s counterintuitive to what you’ve been trained. You’ve not been trained to go
off on your own and assert your will.

Kayla:

31:53 Yeah. Well I mean I was lucky my last year I had picked up that rank where I was
more in charge. But, at the same time, a lot of them don’t get that opportunity to do
that. Just because depending on their job and…

Gayle:
Kayla:

Personality?
31:14 Yeah…I don’t really…I mean because usually with jobs that open, there’s only like
the ranks. There’s only so many spots open for that next promotion, and I just…I

�think I went in at a good time because my jobs were opening up and rank was
opening up a lot earlier.
Gayle:
Kayla:
Cara:
Kayla:

So when were your actual dates of service?
32:33 2010. September 2010 to September 2014. So, I got out about a year…almost two
years now. But, yeah, so…
Yeah, I like that students will hear that, too. Because a lot of what we’ve heard too
is like “nobody told me” or “I didn’t know,” and sometimes you won’t be told.
32:56 Yeah. I mean and that’s what I say like how is somebody supposed to know what
you need unless you tell them and you can’t just expect someone to, like, read your
mind, and I’m not…I don’t ever put it that way because that’s too blunt and that
kind of sounds mean. But, you know, you do kind of have to know that you can’t
always expect things to be given to you, and I think as you get further into your
career in college, if you stay in, I think that’s when people start really seeing like
“oh, I should just go out there and see what’s out there.” You know, like get more
comfortable. That’s kind of what I had to do. I would bug Sharon to the one that was
my VA rep for my benefits. Because I thought, “oh I’ll call her for a resource.” So I’d
be calling Sharon up like, “hey Sharon, so I need…””Oh, you need to talk to…” and
she had directed me to the veteran’s network, kind of. I kind of got it through her,
too. I was like, “oh, thought you were my Veteran’s Network.” But there is an actual,
like, representative that does it, and that’s kind of what we’re working on now with
Steven. We’re trying to figure out how can we get Marq’s face, the one that is our
actual, like that is his job job, is working with veterans, to get his face out there so
veterans know “hey I need to call this guy if I have a question.”

Gayle:

Who? Mark who?

Kayla:

Marq Hicks. Yeah.

Gayle:

When you say Veterans Network, is that a formal…is that just sort of a name you’re
using for this? The formal word is network?

Kayla:

34:32 Yeah, it is the Veterans…I mean even if you…there’s even a website on Grand Valley
that it’s the normal website slash veterans.

Gayle:

Yeah, I apologize I just don’t know much about it.

Kayla:

No, it’s okay because there’s a lot of communities I probably don’t know about in
Grand Valley so…

Gayle:

There’s a lot of resources out there. There’s a lot to know.

Kayla:

Yeah, Google does wonders.

Gayle:

Yes. We know that we’re librarians! (laughs)

Kayla:

I know right. Yeah, I just say, if I ever need anything, I’m just like “GVSU where is…”
Yeah.

�Gayle:

Yeah. Show me the money.

Kayla:

Show me the money.

Gayle:

So are you taking a full load every semester or are you taking a couple of courses?

Kayla:

Gayle:
Kayla:
Gayle:
Kayla:
Gayle:
Kayla:

Gayle:
Kayla:

Gayle:
Kayla:

Cara:

35:11 I am because with daycare, the program...military program we’re in you have to be
full time to get the assistance. So, I like forced to, which is extremely overwhelming
at times. But, I’m just like, whatever, I’m getting it done with.
How old is your son?
33:33 He’s almost 2. He’s a year and 10 months. I’m like “can you just hurry up and be
potty-trained and do your own thing?”
How does the timing work out then with the new baby? When will that be?
35:45 I will be due in October. So, I’m taking the fall off.
Oh, ok.
35:50 So I was like ‘I’ll go heavy in the summer’. I took everything I could though this
summer because that was all that’s offered, and then in the spring, luckily with lib
studies, there is an accelerated program that you can do a course at a time for five
weeks, and it’s only one day a week that I have to go to class. It’s at 6 to, like, 9 pm
on Tuesdays. I’m like “perfect, I don’t need a babysitter for long, especially with two
kids.” So I’m doing three, five-week courses and then I’ll be done so…but, it’s really
intense, you know. So you should take one at a time and that’s all you should be
taking, because you’re going to spend, they said, like 18-20 hours per week on that.
Which I’m like “ok, I’m doing one subject so, bring it on.” Like, one day a week of
taking my kid somewhere. Like, you’re saving me money. I like that. So that’s a good
thing too. I always say if you’re a non-traditional student and you don’t really know
where you’re going, I think the lib studies program is a great choice, because of the
fact they do have that accelerated program. That allows you to have a very flexible
schedule, because you only obligated to one night a week.
And its interdisciplinary nature allows you a lot of possibilities
37:11 Yeah. It does. And you kind of get to make your choices with it. You know, nowadays
with an undergraduate degree, it seems like you can’t do too, too much. Unless it
kind of like a degree that needs to go forward to another one.
Any faculty really stand out? Have you had like a really…?
37:36 Oh, Brain Jabara was amazing, but he moved on. Which is sad, but I’m so happy for
him, but he was amazing. And, actually I did have two professors, a couple, Dr.
Elizabeth Kilbourne and John Kilbourne. Their son’s in the Marine Corps, too. So,
somehow we just had a really great connection and the way they teach is just
amazing, like they have a very different style.
I’ve heard that about them.

�Kayla:

Oh, you’ve heard?

Cara:

Yeah.

Kayla:

Cara:
Kayla:
Cara:
Kayla:

End

38:12 Okay good. They’re amazing, like they really make you do activities. They make you
do a lot of movement. You remember things, they use a lot of creativity. I mean his
wife does LIB310 which is creativity. I always tell people because you do a lot of the
perspective courses you need to fill, it’s one of those world…I can’t remember which
one it is. Issues or world, I can’t remember, but it fills that. It’s an awesome course.
It kind of is a relief in some way because it’s not your typical “you’re going to read a
book.” I mean you do all that, but it’s more open-minded and you’re…
Low-tech? I heard he’s really low-tech. Like doesn’t use PowerPoint slides.
38:59 Not really. I mean he’ll use them, but all of the stuff he does is related to his life too,
a lot. So, it’s interesting to see, like, he can put his story into his teaching.
That makes an impact when you can humanize your professor.
39:17 Yeah. It makes… he’s being open with his students too and it’s really interesting. It’s
kind of really motivating because, hearing his story, and his wife too. They teach
really similarly, but his wife’s more… well they’re both very, like, empathetic people.
So like they’re really easy to approach and that’s what makes their classes so great
is they make all of the students come together and really form a community. They
want you to know all of the students in the class and typically I don’t feel like most
classes you get the opportunity to really get to know everyone. We did a lot of
group projects, but they would alternate our groups. And if we were talking to
someone, they wanted us to use their name so we would remember them, but it
was great. We did things that pushed us out of our comfort zone. And I think that’s
great, and it’s just being like… doing stuff that you’re not typically going do like
dancing. We did some like weird stuff. But it was cool, because we would stretch
and do thing and everyone was like…but afterwards everyone was…and they did it
just to boost our morale and make us excited to kind of be there. Like “oh I feel
better now.” So it’s always refreshing doing something that’s just not like sitting
there like “ok, when is it going to be 11?” So I really like that about their class. So I
always try to do any courses, if I need them, I’m always like looking to see if they
have anything. They’re awesome. And we keep in touch really well, so yeah…but
yeah, those are probably the most faculty that stood out. I think what stands out the
most about the faculty that I’m talking about is the fact that I can really tell they
really care about my wellbeing. And I know, maybe it’s just their personalities,
because I know that most faculty here does try to be like “hey, I’m approachable.”
But some people it’s just the way their personality is. It just really stands out. But
yeah I’m just blabbing on and on.

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
August Clavier
World War II
Total Time: 33:20
Pre-War (03:56)
•
•
•
•
•
•

Born April 12th, 1922
Father was born in Belgium, and moved to the United States when he 2, and he
worked at Ford, and organized a union there.
Mother was a homemaker.
Attended school in Carleton, MI and attended Carleton High School. Graduated
High School in 1941.
Worked at the Willow Run Bomber Plant after his graduation.
Joined the Army.

Training (18:17)
•

Went to school for a number of different types of training.

Active Duty (19:10)
•
•

Travelled through Panama to get to the Pacific.
Was in the Pacific during the War.

Post Service (24:00)
•
•
•

Had one child after the war, and worked in factory.
He also joined the boilermaker’s union.
At the time of the interview, was living in the Veterans Home in Grand Rapids,
MI.

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                  <text>The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.</text>
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Boring, Frank</text>
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                <text>August Clavier was in the Army and served during World War II. He joined the Army after working at a bomber factory in Michigan. During his time in the service, he fought in the Pacific. Upon returning to the United States, he worked in a factory.</text>
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                <text>Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer)</text>
              </elementText>
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              </elementText>
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                    <text>[Page 1]
Nathan Sargent Esq.
Dear Sir,
In reply to your note of this morning, requesting me to state “the practice of the Supreme
Court of Alabama, in regard to the admission of attorneys, coming from other states, into
that, [text crossed out] {Court}and also, whether you were an attorney of that Court”? I
have to say --- it has been the general practice of that court to consider a License, from
any other state, sufficient to entitle a candidate for admission to examination, which is
regained by law, but which, under such circumstance, is firstly much matter of form. I
have known no instances, in which a License has been refused to such an applicant. You
were an attorney of that court before, and at the time of your removal --- as I know
personally --- having been the presiding judge of that court, from the Spring of 1820 to
December 1823.

�[Page 2]
I remain, very respectfully,
Your obt. svt.
C.C. Clay

�[Cover]

�</text>
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                    <text>[Page 1]
Ashland 26th April 1839
Dear Sir
I received your favor of the 18th instant altho’ the state of things which it communicates is far
from being satisfactory or encouraging. You were perfectly right in making me fully acquainted
with it. I have experienced too many necessitudes in public life not to be able to receive, with
composure, any intelligence, however unfavorable. I have moreover long despaired of the Whig
cause deriving any support from Pennsylvania. The most that I have hoped for has been that it
should not be prejudiced by any movements there. These, I believe, are sentiments common to
the great body of our political friends every where out of Pennsylvania.
The attempt which the Whigs in that state were making to organize themselves separately, or a
party distinct from the Antimasons, appeared to me to be judicious and wise. Of course, I
supposed that in executing that purpose, no just cause of offence would be given to Antimasons.
It seems, from your letter, that the Whigs will be thwarted, or are in danger of being thwarted, by
others assuming the garb of Whigs and mingling in the primary meetings and elections of the
Whigs. That certainly will be a very extraordinary course, to say the least of it. Is there no mode
by which those proceedings shall be limited to the Whigs to the exclusion of members of any
other party?
I observe the proceedings in the various Wards of liberties of Philadelphia, and am grateful for
the friendly notice which has been taken of me. I presume that the delegates to the nat.
convention whom they may approach will be admitted to their seats, whatever may be the course
of the June convention.
I have seen too an account of a Revolution of the Tippecanoe Club to abide by the nomination of
the nat. convention &amp; to recognize no other. That must have good effect, whatever may have
been the motives which prompted it.

�[Page 2]
Our Harrison friends are not always [?] and in proportion as to the prospect of succeeding
in their favorite object recedes will become probably intemperate. Still, I think
forbearance and conciliation should never be lost sight of by my friends.
I think the late Whig address which you did me the favor to send me, was eminently
characterized by that speech. It appeared to me to be distinguishing this judgment. I
think I am not biased by the flattering terms in which I am spoken of for which I however
feel very great gratitude.
If I am to judge from information which reaches me, I do not think that the bad spirit,
which you describe as exciting in Penns between the friends of General H. and myself,
extends much beyond that commonwealth. There may be some of it in Cincinnati, but I
am sure that it does not pervade the state of Ohio.
It is of the first importance that our friends, whatever may be their individual preferences,
should be constantly on their guard against the machinations of the administration party.
This party will seek to bring out against Mr. V. Buren, that Whig candidate for the
Presidency whom they believe they can easiest beat. That is a natural course. They will
address themselves to the weaker candidate, endeavor to instill prejudices into his mind
against his most formidable rival, even promise him support, if he be the candidate and
actually affect to be Whigs in order to carry their point. Once carried, and the weaker
candidate brought out, how quickly will they throw off the mark, and direct the whole
thunder of their artillery against him! How loudly will they then proclaim that if some
one else had been nominated there might have been some chance of his Election!
Another kindred danger is that some Whigs, and even Whig prefoes[?], really bought
over to the V. Buren party, may sow the seeds of dissention and secretly work to secure
his election; professing all along to be Whig, but pretending that only a particular
candidate is available and should any other be taken up, afterwards seeking to fulfill their
sinister predictions. These are dangers which we must encounter. We can only by
diligence and energy labor to avert them.

�[Page 3]
I lament the state of apathy among our friends in Philada. I hope it will be overcome.
Our cause is prospering every where else, and our friends there will, I hope, have the
satisfaction of witnessing its final triumph. But if they should become lukewarm and
indifferent, our strength [?] may be impaired.
Notwithstanding the unfavorable issue of the charter election in the city of N. York, I
have the strongest assurances from various intelligent correspondents that the state is
perfectly safe.
The Virginia elections will take place next month; and if they should terminate
successfully (as is confidently believed) our difficulties will be at an end.
With great regard &amp; esteem
I am your friend &amp; obt. servt.
H. Clay
N. Sargent Esq.

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                    <text>[Page 1]
Ashland 13th Oct. 1850
My dear Sir,
Before I received your favor of the 7th inst. Communicating the causes of your rejection
by the Senate, I had written to you, expressing both my surprise and deep regret at the
event. I more than ever, now am sorry that I was not present when the question of your
confirmation came up, as I think I could have probably prevented the decision that was
made; but I had not the remotest expectation of it, and the state of my health obliged me
to leave the city before the Session terminated.
What has passed cannot be reversed; but I fervently hope that the injustice done you may
be repaired, by your receiving some equally good and respectable appointment, if not the
same. &amp; I repeat, what I said in my former letter, that you are fully authorized to express
to the President, or any of the members of his administration, my anxious desire that a
suitable position should be made for you. I have long known you, and entertaining the
greatest confidence in you, I am persuaded that you may safely rely on the sentiments of
justice which I am sure animate the President.
Your friend,
H. Clay
Nathan Sargent, Esq.

�[Cover]

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(Copy)
Ashland 16th April, 1849
My dear Sir,
It would have afforded me very great pleasure to have seen your name among those who
have received appointments to public office under the new administration. I hope get to
see it. I am persuaded that if the President were as well acquainted with your merits as I
am, that you would receive the appointment of the Head of a Bureau, or some equivalent
office in one of the cities.
I have known you upwards of twenty years. During all that time you have faithfully, ably
&amp; zealously supported those principles which brought the present administration into
power. Few Whigs have exhibited great ardor &amp; [text missing] in the cause. And I
recollect an instance of rare disinterestedness in your career which cannot be too often
mentioned, or too highly praised. In 18[text missing] you held an office to which a good
salary was attached. Believing, as you did, that it was not necessary to the public
interests, you advised the discontinuance of the office. It was accordingly discontinued,
&amp; you consequently lost the employment &amp; the salary. The office was afterwards
renewed by Mr. Taylor to provide for one of his supporters.
If you suppose that my recommendation or wishes would have any influence at
Washington, you are at liberty to use this testimonial by showing it to the President or
any of the Heads of Departments.
I am your friend &amp; obedient servant
H. Clay
Mr N. Sargent

�[Cover]

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                    <text>[Feb. 10, 1849]
My dear Sir,
I received your favor of the 2nd instant, but that to which you refer, addressed to me at
Ashland, has not come to hand.
I am only thankful and greatly obliged for the trouble you have taken in procuring the
letter from General Bradley, of which you have transmitted a Copy to me. Of course, I
can be hardly supposed to retain a distinct recollection of all the circumstances which
details; but I have a general recollection of them, and from the intimacy which existed
between him and me, at the time of this occurrence I have no doubt of their substantial
accuracy.
I should be glad that the letter should be published, but whether that be done or a month
or two hence is of no consequence. When done, I could wish that it should appear, as the
fact is, that is has been checked[?] and is brought out by a friend. The value of the letter
exists mainly in its being from a political opponent, who acted the part which he relates at
the Democratic National Convention in Balto.[?]
It is time, as has been suggested by Mr. Gales, that, by inference, it may be made to
operate on the President elect; but then I so often [?] the sentiment, attributed to me by
Gen. Bradley, that there would be nothing new or surprising in it being again published.
The Call Session of the Senate, I suppose, will be a mere matter of form, and will lead to
no serious discussions or divisions. And as I have not entirely recovered from a [?] from
a recent accident, as the journey at this season would be very disagreeable, I shall not
attend it, unless I have after receive information that may [?] well be material.
I am eager to see the Counter address, which you mention as being likely to be spread by
the Democrats who would not sign Mr. Calhoun.
I have been surprised at the general condemnation of the movement of the Southern
delegates this quarter.
Your friend &amp; obedt. Serv.
H. Clay
N. Sargent Esq.

�</text>
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                    <text>[Page 1]
Ashland 19th August 1843
My Dear Sir
I duly reward your favor of the 20th July. Since them several elections have been held in
adjoining states. Tennessee has realized all our hopes; but Indiana, and I am ashamed to
own, Kentucky have both done badly. Our too great strength has been the cause of our
loss of several members of Congress. In each of two Districts two Whigs were run
against one Lou[?] and were lost. In two others, we were beaten by unfortunate
selections of our own General Assembly! And I have no doubt that the state will give a
large majority in 44 as she did in 40
I transmit for your confidential perusal the enclosed letters which you may destroy. You
will be attracted to one of the causes assigned for our defeat in Indiana. Altho’ reluctant
to believe it, I am afraid it is true.
We shall not have a fair canvass and a fair field until the two candidates of the respective
parties are designated and announced. Then, the contest and the comparison will be
between those two; and we shall profit by all dissentions and divisions now operating,
and those which the next session will disclose, among our opponents.
I confess that I have some fear as to the wisdom of the policy which our N. York friends
have intimated, of avoiding a battle this fall. The danger is that our defeats will be so
general &amp; so habitual that our friends cannot be aroused the exertion in the final struggle.
If you can properly succeed this fall in Pennsa. the result would produce the most
animating and encouraging effect.

�[Page 2]
effect. What are your prospects?
The Whigs want organization. There ought to be in Philada. or N. York a Central Comee.
composed of active intelligent &amp; faithful Whigs, who would keep up a constant
correspondence with state committees, which, in their turn, should correspond with the
various country, township and other local Commees. in their respective States. These
would then be diffused throughout the whole Union accurate knowledge of what was
doing and what were the prospects, in each part. I thought you had in Philada. some such
club; but I have heard nothing of its correspondence.
It was not my intention to intimate any preference in regard to a candidate for the V.
Presidency. I think that it is not proper that I should do so. In speaking of Mr. Fillmore, I
merely meant to state what I had heard of the favorable feelings exciting towards him at
the close of the last Congress. It is no violation of the reserve which I feel constrained to
observe to say that I think as well of Mr. Sergeant as you do. I have ever found him
honest, true, faithful and able.
Present any respects to Mr. B. Badger. I have ever felt the keenest
regret at the unjust treatment which he experienced from the Senate
of the U.S.
With constant regard &amp; attachment
H. Clay
N. Sargent Esq.

�[Cover]

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                    <text>Dear Sir,
I acquiesce on the proposed attention Mr. S.
H.C.
Monday evening

�[Note 2]
My dear Sir,
I should be glad to see my Valedictory before it is finally stricken off. There are one or
two more phrases that I should like to modify.
Yr faithf S
H. Clay
Tuesday morning

�[Note 3]
My Dear Sir,
I wish the clause to stand as I have now left it. We cannot get along well with both the
shield &amp; the mantle. Besides, there is nothing wrong in the idea that she around me her
broad &amp; impenetrable shield. It does not mean necessarily all around. The confusion is
often I think to be met with. Sometimes it is said covered me with his shield, altho’ the
person was not fully covered.
There is some further attention reassay? to the punctuation.
Yrs faithf y
H. Clay
Tuesday afternoon

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                    <text>[Page 1]
(Confidential)
New Castle Del: Jany. 3d. 1842.
Dear Sir,
If the bill to pay [text crossed out] {Fren}from claims for French spoliations[?] prior to
1800 should become a law during the present session, or if any other bill to pay these
claims should pass during the present session or if a bill to establish a commission to
liquidate those claims should pass during the present session and either at this or any
future session a bill should pass Congress to pay those claims, you shall receive the first
twenty five hundred dollars to which I may become entitled in consequence of the
passage of either of said bills.
Please drop me a line stating how you think the cause of the claimants progresses.
Faithfully your friend
John M. Clayton
P.S. I am at present detained here by business. Could I be of any use at Washington?

�[Cover]

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                    <text>[Page 2]
John Sargeant is my first choice for vice President. There is a deeper feeling than you are
aware of against Virginia &amp; Massachusetts at this time. Men say these two states have
ruled the country too long --- that Mr T. &amp; Mr W. have betrayed them and that two thirds
of the best offices in the government are filled from those two States. They say that were
the Cadets, &amp; the Midshipmen in the Navy have been distributed unjustly to all the other
states. Without inquiry into [text strikethrough]{all}the justice of all the clamour, it is
enough to know that a choice for any thing like the office of P. from either Virginia or
Massachusetts would be exceedingly injudicious at this time.
I write in confidence, - and I beg you to think well of what I have said.
Faithfully your friend
John M. Clayton
N. Sargent Esqu.
Philada.

�[Cover]

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(Confidential)
New Castle – Del. March 14 1844
My dear Sir,
I received your letter &amp; have written to friends to ask their advice about the best course for me to
adopt. I want harmony among friends above all things &amp; I want office last of all things. But
things are at a delicate pass &amp; if I return a new candidate will be started I think. What do you
really wish me to do? Be candid &amp; explicit. I shall like you the better for it &amp; it is your duty as a
true Whig to counsel me fully. I will obey friends, but am distracted by this contrariety of
opinions. You tell me, I shall ruin my party if I decline. You evidently think (do you not?) that I
ought to decline. The most pressing letters I have rec’d are from Penna. &amp; they all urge me to
serve if nominated and not to decline. What ought I to do?
I rejoice to hear that our old friend Webster is about to take his old position. You are right in
urging that we should be friends. If we are not, it shall not be my fault. I know that Clay still
rejoices in his friendship to our party - &amp; were he listed. I have no doubt Mr. W[ebster] would
again be useful to his country in a station worthy of his talents. -

Truly yours
John M. Clayton
N. Sargent Esq.

�[Cover]

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                    <text>[Page 1]
March 25 1844
New Castle Del
(Confidential)
My dear Sir,
Yesterday I was called on by a friend who had ridden post haste from New York to inform me
that he was for Mr. Fillmore for V.P. and wished me to decline in his favour. I demurred,
alleging that New York had already had 1 P (V.B). &amp; 4 V.P’s Aaron Burr, George Clinton, Dl
Tompkins [Daniel D. Tompkins] &amp; Martin Van Buren. To this he replied that N.E. (Mass) had
held nearly one half the secretaries &amp; ministers not reckoning the multitude from Virginia, and
that Vạ &amp; Mass had governed the country nearly all the time [ab. urb. cond.]. I then told him
that Penna Maryland Del &amp; New Jersey (4 states) the “Middle Section” had never held a P. or a
V.P. &amp; yet they had a population four hundred thousand stronger than either N.Y. or N.E. This
seemed to astonish him. He looked like a man who had suddenly found out that New York was
not about ¾ of the United States!
This gentleman said that John Davis had resolved (&amp; he knew it) to decline at the Convention &amp;
that Abbot Lawson could not run because he was, like Davis, concerned in negotiating the loan
to Illinois &amp;c. &amp;c. (a d d bank of stuff) and that A.L. [Abbot Lawson] was weak, unfit &amp;c. &amp;c.
I told him I would decline if we could

�[Page 2]
agree on a Pennsylvanian &amp; proposed to go for John Sargeant the man who was our Candidate in
1832. But I thought I saw clearly this gentleman had been sent from N. York on purpose to aid
Mr. F’s nominations. He said if I would decline Mr. F. would certainly be nominated &amp; he &amp;
others wished me to be a member of Mr. C’s cabinet if elected. They abhorred Sergeant. – Now
at this step of our conversation I proposed to go for Frelinghuysen [Theodore Frelinghuysen] as
he was a N. Yorker at this time. He said “no – F. made speaker in the Senate against the Sunday
mails &amp; would not do to run against the champion of the Sunday mails (R[ichard] M. Johnson.)”
I asked him if Mr. Fillmore had not been charged in N.Y. with being inclined to abolition. He
seemed to admit he had been, but was not now.
I dismissed him by telling him a story of the girl about to be married who resolved on the first
night to present neither front nor rear to her new bed fellow, but to lie on her back and take what
should come. Such I was disposed to do.
But the fact is I am weary of being held up as a candidate for what I do not desire &amp; I hope
setback before many days to see my way clear for another round of (what the members of the
House call) “declination” – Alas barbarians!
Faithfully yours
John M. Clayton

N. Sargent Esqu.

�[Cover]

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Senate Chamber
Feb. 2 1845

My dear Sir,
Be careful I beg you not to bring any of us into a quarrel with Webb of a personal kind. It would
do harm to our cause to have any sort of controversy with him in the public papers. We shall
express our opinions on the whole subject at the proper time on the floor of the Senate.
Therefore decline any controversy with him if he is fool enough to invite one.
Rely on it that the party in power mean to barter away the tariff for a slip of Oregon. It will
require the united efforts of every Whig to resist this [?]
Truly your friend
John M Clayton
N. Sargeant Esq.

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State Dept 11 April/49
12 o’clock M.
My dear Friend,
If you can share time to come &amp; see me this night at 8 o’clock, you shall not be kept waiting &amp; I
shall be happy to see you. Last night I had a violent headache brought on by working 15 hours a
day &amp; could not see you or any one.
Truly your friend
M. Clayton
N Sargent Esqu

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My dear Sir,
Appreciating your deserved influence with the administration, my friend Nathan Sargent,
whose service as “Oliver Oldschool” we all appreciate, is desirous of enlisting it it in this
favor for an appointment, as head of a Bureau in this city – it will give me the highest
gratification to serve him in any way, consistent with the public interests, and I have no
doubt if you know him as well as I do, and you must at least by reputation, it will give
you equal pleasure to see justice done to one, who has so ably, so ardently, and so long
advocated Whig principles.
A letter from yourself to Mr. Meredith would I think be of

�[Page 2]
service to him.
Very respectfully &amp; truly
your friend &amp; obt servt
John M. Clayton
[Cover]

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                    <text>[Page 1]
Buena Vista Del
Jany 17th 1853
My dear Sir,
I thank you sincerely for you kind letter. Was there ever seen in the history of this world,
a more villainous accusation than was made against me in the Senate, and a more
triumphant exposure of its authors! Gen Cass was once a school master in Wilmington
Delaware, and yet it seems he never learned Geography. British Honduras was never in
Central America; and Central America is a term which was never applied by any man
who knew what he was talking about to any thing but the five states of Central America,
called the Central American Confederation. The Balize was once a part of Yucatan
and the British settlement there, was called British Honduras, merely from the fact that it
lies on the bay of Honduras, by a part of which, it is divided from the Central American
state of Honduras. Its proper name ought to be British Yucatan. A school boy ought to be
flogged for not knowing Geography better than Mr. Cass, Downs &amp; Co. As to Weller, the
most stupid thing I ever did was to suffer him to remain in office till Erving turned him
out. I refused to pay his drafts; hence his tears! How does Mr. Cass feel under Mr.
Bragg’s letter &amp; Mr. King’s explanations? Was it not monstrous that Cass

�[Page 2]
should have reiterated his misrepresentations twice after he had conversed with King! Of
all who took part in the debate, Downs was by far the weakest man the greatest fool. I
suppose he has sense enough to come in out of the rain, but I think not much more.
I am dear Sir
Faithfully your friend
John M Clayton
N Sargeant Esq.
Washington
D.C.

�[Cover]

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                    <text>[Page 1]
Chippewa Post Office – Del
April 18. 1855
My dear friend,
I hope to be able to return to Washington before hot weather. But perhaps engagements
here may not permit me.
I fear we are on the eve of a war to be begun like that with Mexico. Rely on it, something
extraordinary is in the wind. Look out &amp; stand from under!
Will you do me the favour to enquire of young Mr. Dickens &amp; of Mrs. Carter what they
would charge me for board &amp; lodging in Washington two large rooms &amp; airy – one a bed
room. Please make the enquiry in confidence for me. Their rooms are convenient to the
Capitol. Are they cool &amp; pleasant in Summer? Oblige me by not mentioning my
application to any third person till I write you. I am anxious to be near you &amp; converse
about old times. I like Bealis well -- but it is too far from the Capitol for an old man.
Ever faithfully yours
John M Clayton
Nathan Sargent Esq.
Washington, DC.

�</text>
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                    <text>Buena Vista - Del April 27th 1855.
My dear friend,
Your kind letter of the 24th was this day received. I hasten to reply that whenever Mrs.
Carter shall inform me she is ready to receive me, I will start for Washington expecting to
be at her house next day. The short stop to the Library of Congress will just suit me.
Tell her my servant sleeps in my bedroom in which I wish her to put a cot down for him.
Tell her he is a very good quiet orderly fellow as black as the ace of spades. I think her
terms very reasonable. I may stay in Washington many months --- probably shall.
Then we must have our meetings every night &amp; a little and just such comforts as
will make this old Whigs happy.
I am dear Sargent
Ever faithfully &amp; affectionately
Your friend
John M Clayton
P.S. Please let me know what Mrs. C says by next mail
Nathan Sargent Esq.
Washington

�[Cover]

�</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en"&gt;No Copyright - United States&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>RHC-44_NS1-15477</text>
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                <text>Nathan Sargent from John M. Clayton, April 27, 1855</text>
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            <description>An account of the resource</description>
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                <text>Letter discussing his planned arrival in Washington and an anticipated trip to the Library of Congress.</text>
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                <text>Sargent, Nathan, 1794-1875</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471"&gt;Nathan Sargent papers, (RHC-44)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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            <name>Publisher</name>
            <description>An entity responsible for making the resource available</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="1025760">
                <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives</text>
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