117 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3bce356dacfa27f3f48f0e553519493b.jpg 38aad63cc773b568883cc736ac9416b4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8b52452ef5efcb12f291f30e07f80957.jpg 54610e912be7067fa7701e2b92a02267 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Insel-Bücherei Series Description An account of the resource The German publishing company Insel Verlag was founded in 1899 by Anton Kippenberg in Leipzig. In its early years the firm only printed expensive, beautifully-produced volumes, until demand led to the publication of the more modest Insel-Bücherei series in 1912. Relatively inexpensive but with the same careful sense of design and typography, these smaller-format books reprinted shorter works from a variety of German, European, and world authors. The series numbers considerably more than a thousand titles and is still being issued. The Digital Collection contains the scanned covers of 140 titles held by Grand Valley State University Libraries. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1904-1987 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-05 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource ger Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-09-29 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-05_IB0626 Title A name given to the resource Carmina Burana Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</A> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1964 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-09-29 Description An account of the resource Cover of Carmina Burana, edited by Ernst Buschor, published by Insel-Verlag, 1964. Insel-Bücherei Nr. 626 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books. Insel-Bücherei. Z315.I5 B83 no.626 Language A language of the resource de Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ccd4a79a3aa32df311fc70173a40cdb4.jpg 9e9a32d686afdac8c4c19421f6fe4d26 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Valley State University Photographs Subject The topic of the resource Aerial photographs Universities and colleges Michigan Grand Rapids (Mich.) Allendale (Mich.) Building Facilities Dormitories Students Events 1960s 1970s 1980s 1990s 2000s Description An account of the resource People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource News & Information Services. University Communications Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News &amp; Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-03-03 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s-2000s Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Local Subject Subject headings specific to a particular image collection 1970s Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01_UAPhotos_000939 Title A name given to the resource Carnatic Music Ensemble in the Thomas Jefferson College Description An account of the resource Carnatic Music Ensemble in the Thomas Jefferson College. Sitar ensemble led by Rangaramanuja Ayyangar. Subject The topic of the resource Students Grand Valley State University Grand Valley State College Michigan Allendale (Mich.) Universities and colleges Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives black and white photo https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d6655bdfb868c26e1eacaa4ceac235db.jpg eb7df4b7019b72fc1163d9386826910a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_K183-0019 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1970-08-05/1970-08-07 Title A name given to the resource Carnival Attractions, Kane County Fair, Illinois Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of two painted signs for the "Bull Wheel" and "Guillotine" carnival attractions at the Kane County Fair in Kane County, Illinois. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource Kane County (Ill.) Carnivals--Illinois Fairs--Illinois Black-and-white photography Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1970s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/373aab41ade479f1d7df24befdafdfab.jpg 0013fa493f80bd62203ada55fc0c0508 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_K182-0023 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1970-08-05/1970-08-07 Title A name given to the resource Carnival Rides, Kane County Fair, Illinois Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of a group of carnival rides being set up at the Kane County Fair in Kane County, Illinois. In the photograph, a trailer with the message, "Dispensa and Sons Complete Carnivals, Elmhurst, Illinois," advertised on the side is parked at the fairgrounds with the ferris wheel in the background. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource Kane County (Ill.) Amusement rides--Illinois Carnivals--Illinois Fairs--Illinois Black-and-white photography Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1970s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/688a1fc1a3873d997f34f54be325c79c.jpg 930407723e0bda972be91bc75be2887d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_EastmanAlbum_2_1909-1911_035-2 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1911-05 Title A name given to the resource Caroga Lake Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of water front at Caroga Lake, Fulton County, New York. Subject The topic of the resource Caroga (N.Y. : Town) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d339181124f82b3cd46be058b8996d20.jpg 2e061ea6e6d4c1667b61f93e673d696f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_EastmanAlbum_2_1909-1911_035 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1911-05 Title A name given to the resource Caroga Lake House Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of house at Caroga Lake, Fulton County, New York. Subject The topic of the resource Caroga (N.Y. : Town) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0527a8a8c990dcd9e0cedc0c864e02bc.pdf 4c68b025e9205ede9433992bbe1d9b07 PDF Text Text Young Lords In Lincoln Park Interviewee: Carol Blakely Interviewer: Jose Jimenez Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 10/19/2012 Runtime: 01:53:23 Biography and Description Oral history of Carol Blakely, interviewed by Jose “Cha-Cha” Jimenez on October 19, 2012 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. "The Young Lords in Lincoln Park" collection grows out of decades of work to more fully document the history of Chicago's Puerto Rican community which gave birth to the Young Lords Organization and later, the Young Lords Party. Founded by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, the Young Lords became one of the premier struggles for international human rights. Where thriving church congregations, social and �political clubs, restaurants, groceries, and family residences once flourished, successive waves of urban renewal and gentrification forcibly displaced most of those Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, working-class and impoverished families, and their children in the 1950s and 1960s. Today these same families and activists also risk losing their history. �Transcript JOSE JIMENEZ: Testing one, two, three. Testing one, two, three. Go ahead and say something. CAROL CORONADO: Hello. How are you? (break in audio) JJ: Okay. Go ahead and say something. CC: Hello. How are you? JJ: Testing one, two, three. Testing one, two, three. (break in audio) Okay, now Carol, give me your name and where you were born. CC: Okay. My name is Carol [Coronado?]. I was born in Chicago, Illinois on March 11, 1942. I lived in Lake View. JJ: When you were born? CC: When I was born, we lived in Lake View which is right at Roscoe and Broadway. JJ: Okay. Right around Roscoe and Broadway, that area? CC: Right. JJ: Okay, and your parents. What were their names? CC: My mother’s name was [Evelyn?] and my father’s name was [Ross?]. I have one sister who’s older. Her name is [Patricia?]. I have a brother who’s 20 [00:01:00] months younger. His name is [Ross, Jr.?]. JJ: Okay. And did you had a sister and a brother you said so they are... Where are your parents from? 1 �CC: Okay. My father was born in McKeesport, Pennsylvania which is right near Pittsburgh. My mother was born in Chicago on the South Side. I’m not exactly sure where but it was on the South Side. JJ: What type of work did they do? CC: Pardon me? JJ: What type of work did they do? CC: Okay. My father was a produce manager for A&P and my mother was a cashier and bookkeeper for A&P, also. JJ: Okay. So they did that for most of their life or...? CC: Yes, yes. JJ: And what about your sisters and brother -- brother and sister? CC: My sister got married and had four children. My brother, he worked at a printing company in, oh, McHenry, Illinois and he just retired from there. And me, I’ve had several jobs. (laughs) [00:02:00] I worked in the bank in the accounting department. I worked for ACNielsen as a comptometer operator. I was an AT&T telephone operator for a while. For the last 30 years, I’ve been a security guard with Securitas. I was 12 years at Bell Laboratories in Naperville and 18 years at General Mills in West Chicago. Right now, I just work three days a week at a gated community in Plainfield on a public golf course. I have a gate house and I let people into play golf. Yeah. JJ: Now you said you were born at Lake View. CC: Lake View. JJ: Did you grow up there, too, or...? 2 �CC: Yes, I grew up there. I went to Nettlehorst Grammar School and Lake View High School. JJ: Oh, you went to Lake View High School. CC: Lake View High School. JJ: Nettlehorst Grammar School, where is that? CC: That’s at Broadway [00:03:00] and Aldine. And then Lake View was Irving Park and Ashland. JJ: What was that like? What was Nettlehorst like? CC: Nettlehorst? It was -- JJ: Now, did you go to eighth grade? CC: Through eighth grade and I graduated. JJ: So can you kind of describe that for us? The community and how...? CC: The community was -- all right. I lived a block off Lake Shore Drive, all right? So if you lived on this side of Broadway, you were working-class people. This side of Broadway, it was very rich people. JJ: So the west side of Broadway was working class? CC: Was working class, yeah. JJ: And the east side was rich people? CC: Was very -- yeah, very rich people. (laughs) JJ: And did people talk about that, or...? CC: Yes and no. When I went to school, mostly the kids that went there were Jewish. There were only -- like in a class of, say, 30, there were 11 [00:04:00] of us that were Protestant or Catholic. 3 �JJ: Mm-hmm. So you’re a Protestant? CC: I’m Protestant –- a Presbyterian. JJ: Oh, Presbyterian. CC: Yeah. And so -- JJ: Your parents, too? Your parents? CC: But we kind of like -- yes, my -- oh, see, that’s the thing. My father was Irish Catholic. My mother was Lutheran. We were baptized Presbyterian because my aunt, my uncle’s wife, was in charge of the cradle roll at (inaudible) Presbyterian Church and so we were baptized Presbyterian. We had kind of a strange family. (laughs) JJ: So what -- wasn’t that [Angris?]? What years are we --talking about (crosstalk) -- CC: That was from 1942 till I’d say ’54, I would say. JJ: So from 1932 -- CC: Forty-two. JJ: Forty-two. CC: (laughs) JJ: Sorry, oh I’m sorry. Nineteen forty-two to -- CC: Say, ’54. JJ: [00:05:00] –- to ’54. You’re talking about –- that’s the eighth grade? The first eighth grade? CC: Oh, no. Oh, the eighth grade. I started school when I was six so I went from ’48 to ’56. Nineteen forty-eight to 1956. To Nettlehorst, yeah. 4 �JJ: And then what type of neighborhood? What was the population? And what type of neighborhood? CC: And then I graduated. Okay. It was mainly white working-class. There were no Blacks in the neighborhood. We had -- like I said, it was an all-white neighborhood. JJ: You’re talking about all of Lake View or just that area? CC: That area that I was from. Yeah. JJ: Yeah. Was it all white? CC: All white. Yeah. JJ: Was it ethnic whites? I mean, were they like Irish, Italian? CC: Irish, Italian, German. Yeah. Jewish. Uh, yeah. And then in the ‘50s -- oh, I’m trying to think. In 19-- I would say ‘54 or something, we had a lot of Puerto Ricans come [00:06:00] to the neighborhood. So the neighborhood changed; We had a lot of Puerto Ricans there. JJ: Okay. So 1954, around there? CC: About ’54. Yeah. Because I was about 12, 13. Yeah. JJ: And so what happened when the Puerto Ricans came? How did you feel? CC: Oh. We had a good time, you know? And there were -- (laughs) as a young woman, there were some really good-looking guys. So we were happy (laughs) they were in the neighborhood. I don’t know if you want me to say that, but that’s -- yeah. Yeah, and we -- JJ: So you didn’t have any problem with them. CC: No. 5 �JJ: What about the guys? That’s the girls, but what about the guys? CC: The guys got along fine and they integrated with us. We all got along. I can’t remember any problems with, you know, every –- JJ: Is Aldine -- is that like around Halsted or Addison? CC: No. Aldine is -- okay. You know where Belmont is? JJ: Right. Oh, yeah. CC: All right. Aldine is two blocks north of Belmont so I lived in between [00:07:00] Addison and Belmont on Roscoe Street. JJ: Oh, that’s Roscoe. Roscoe runs the same way. Does it go by [Halsted?]? CC: Roscoe runs east and west. JJ: Does it go...? Oh. CC: And it ended at -- okay. JJ: And Aldine goes north and south. CC: I lived on Broadway. At the end of the street if you walked down to the next street, that was Halsted Street. Yeah, that was Halstead Street. And then Clark Street came also a little farther up. So -- JJ: Okay. So this area [ancestry?] is Puerto Rican and you didn’t have any problem? CC: No problems or anything. No problems. JJ: (crosstalk) the schools? CC: They went to school, yeah. And they hung -- we hung around together and stuff. JJ: Now, when you say it was turning Puerto Rican, was it a lot of Puerto Ricans? CC: Yeah, several -- a whole lot of Puerto Ricans. You probably could tell me more of the history of Puerto Rico. But that’s when the Puerto Rican community started 6 �coming into our neighborhood. Yeah. And I said we had no -- I mean, they lived across the street from me and stuff. And I get -JJ: [00:08:00] Your background is part Irish? CC: I’m Irish, German, Norwegian. I am Irish. My maiden name was [Curley?]. That’s about as Irish as you can get, so yeah. JJ: All right. Okay. So you were Irish. And so what was it like for a woman to grow up? A girl to grow up at that time? Did you stay at home or like (crosstalk) –- CC: Well, no, I hung out. We all hung out on the streets and stuff. And we played marbles (laughs) and -- JJ: Oh, you played marbles? CC: Marbles and pinners, a game called pinners. And I played baseball because I was a bit of a tomboy. So I climbed fences and my mother used to get really upset because I would rip out my blue jeans and stuff. Yeah, so -- but no, we -everybody -- you knew everybody. You knew your neighbors. Like today, it’s not like that [00:09:00] I don’t think. I don’t know the people that live here on this side of me because they’re new, okay? And I did know the people who lived in this house next to me when we first moved here. However, everybody knew everybody’s business and all the kids, you know what I’m saying? We all hung out together. But I wouldn’t call us a -- we never got into any kind of trouble trouble. We just all played until we got to be teenagers. Then we started to get into like drinking and stuff. Doing things. Doing things we shouldn’t have done. JJ: Drinking and was that all, or...? 7 �CC: No, drinking and some of us, not myself personally, (laughs) but stealing cars and stuff like that. Yeah. JJ: Oh, I see. Joy riding. Were you -- CC: Joy riding, yeah. JJ: So there was joy riding and -- CC: [00:10:00] Right. JJ: -- at the time. What year was that? CC: That was like 1956. Yeah, ’56, ’57. Yeah. And we -- JJ: Okay. Was there -- CC: And we -- JJ: Oh, I’m sorry, go ahead. CC: Oh, no. Go ahead. Also, we -- then we started forming gangs and we would fight with peop-- (laughs) We found with Lemoyne School which was over there -Addison and Southport I believe is what it -- yeah. They didn’t come into our school year -- JJ: Oh, you mean by Halstead, no? By –- CC: Yeah. Right across from Cubs Park. Yeah. JJ: Right around the corner. Yeah. CC: But they were not allowed in our neighborhood and we didn’t go in theirs. JJ: So it was a school? CC: Yeah. JJ: It was one school against the other or what gang? What was the name of it? 8 �CC: It was the gang -- we didn’t have a name. Well, we did. The Customettes. It was called the Customettes. And the guys were called -- I can’t remember. I think somewhere around [00:11:00] this house, I have a leather jacket that has –that says Customettes on the back of it. Yeah. JJ: Oh, and that’s the woman’s group. CC: That was the women’s. JJ: So it must’ve been the Customs or something. CC: No, I can’t remember what they were called. Plus we also had in our neighborhood the -- JJ: Was it mainly...? Oh. CC: -- not the Hell’s Angels. It was a motorcycle, the Chicago Outlaws. Yeah. I got involved with them a little -- when I was little like maybe 15 and stuff. That was a motorcycle gang. JJ: So what did the Customettes do mainly? CC: Just run around with the guys. Hung around with the guys (laughs) and wear jackets. But we would get in fights. I mean, fist fights and stuff. JJ: Other women or...? CC: Women and guys. You know. Some of the women, (laughs) they could fight just as good as a guy. I mean I was [00:12:00] one of those people. Yeah. But yeah, they would come in the school yard and then it would start and then the police would get us. They would surround us. They’d come from -- one from this way and another and get us and stuff. But and then take us down to Town Hall police station where my father would have to come get us. 9 �JJ: And what would your father say? CC: He was very upset. (laughs) He was very upset. But we never did anything that got us -- though some did wind up at the Audy Home. Are you familiar with the Audy Home or...? JJ: Yeah, a little bit. CC: Or a couple of people got sent to St. Charles reform school. Yeah. JJ: These are the guys or the girls? Or the guys (crosstalk) -- CC: It was the guys. The guys and (crosstalk) some of the girls went -- I can’t remember the name [00:13:00] of the -- they’re -- okay. In Geneva, there was a woman’s and I can’t remember the name of that. JJ: Yeah, but it was in Geneva. It was (inaudible). CC: Yeah, it was in Geneva. And the boys they sent to St. Charles which was -yeah, St. Charles reform school for boys. JJ: Yeah. Was this mainly in the -- was there a lot of Puerto Ricans in your group? In this gang? Or was it mainly Irish and German? CC: We had some Puerto Ricans. It was a mixture; We had a mixture of people. We had one called [Louis Anderson?] -- he was Black. See, the Louis was the only Black person that lived in the neighborhood that I remember when I was young and he ran around with us. Yes, we had Puerto Ricans and we had -- JJ: But the people in the Lemoyne were fighting with you here. CC: They were white; mostly white. JJ: At Lemoyne? CC: Yeah. At Lemoyne, they were white. 10 �JJ: Oh. Because later, I think they had like (crosstalk) Latin -- CC: Yeah. Later, it’s all -- there’s a lot of Latins over there now, but not at that -- JJ: [00:14:00] But at that time, in ’54, it was white. CC: Yeah. Yeah. There wasn’t many. JJ: Nettlehorst and then -- CC: Lake View High School. JJ: This is Lake View High School. Okay. CC: Yeah. Now, when I got to Lake View High School, I became kind of a lady because I was getting older. So I didn’t get so much into things that were -- JJ: So when you say you were fighting in these little skirmishes -- CC: In the school yard. In the school yard. JJ: This was Lake View. You were in Lake View already. CC: No, I was at Nettlehorst. JJ: At Nettlehorst. CC: Yeah, yeah. JJ: And now you went to Lake View High School? CC: And then I went to Lake View High School and we got into -- like dating and all the stuff and I started smoking. JJ: What do you mean dating? Going out with a guy? CC: You know, guys. Going out with guys and stuff. JJ: Yeah, no, no. So the girls would -- CC: Dates and -- JJ: So a lot of dates or...? 11 �CC: Yeah, yeah. [00:15:00] And but drinking. But we also did a lot of drinking. There was a lot of drinking. JJ: So did you guys hang out on a street corner? CC: On a street corner, on a street corner. JJ: What corner was that? What corner was that? CC: At one point, it was Roscoe and Broadway. JJ: You were at Roscoe and Broadway? CC: Right, Roscoe and Broadway and the police used to come. If they said we couldn’t congregate so they would split us up and we would have to go farther down the street. But they didn’t want us there. JJ: Yeah. So the police would just come by and tell you to move? CC: Yeah, tell us to move to disassemble. (laughter) Because they feared if there were more than three of us at one time, we were going to be doing something that we weren’t supposed to do. But plus the Chicago Outlaws and there were another [00:16:00] group -- gosh, oh I can’t remember the (laughs) name of that group. It was a motorcycle gang. The girls were called the [Sabers?]. I wasn’t in that gang, but that’s who hung out. The Sabers and the -- the (inaudible)... But they really were after them. There was a lot of police after them. But they had guns and stuff. (inaudible) guns and stuff. JJ: Oh, they had guns. Were they into drugs, too, or...? CC: Drugs, yeah. JJ: Oh, so that’s why they were [after them?]. 12 �CC: I drank, but I was always a little leery of drugs though I did have friends that did drugs and stuff. I -- JJ: What kind of drugs did they do? CC: Oh, they did marijuana. I had a couple friends that were into heroin. Yeah. JJ: Hmm. Was that a big problem at that time then or...? CC: Not so much the drugs. [00:17:00] When I went to high school, yeah. We had a friend who they sent him to Kentucky. There was a dry-out center. He died of -he died -- JJ: Do you remember? CC: I can’t remember. JJ: Out of Kentucky (crosstalk) -- CC: It wasn’t Louisville. It was something like that, yeah. And he died of a drug overdose while he was there. Yeah. So you tell me how that happens, you know? But yeah, at Lake View High School, there was a lot of drugs. JJ: So how was Lake View High School? I mean, what was the population there and what...? CC: It was a mixture. There were Blacks, whites, Latinos, Orientals, yeah. JJ: Was it a rough school or...? CC: Yeah, it was a rough -- pretty rough school. Yeah. JJ: What, were there gangs or...? CC: They used to call Lake View High School the home of unwed mothers. (laughs) Yeah. Seriously, yeah. And there were a lot of [00:18:00] gangs. JJ: And what year was this? 13 �CC: This was 1956, ’57. JJ: Fifty-six, fifty-seven, there were a lot of gangs? CC: Yeah. JJ: Do you remember any of the gangs or...? CC: (sighs) (shakes head) JJ: What were the teachers like? CC: The teachers were okay. I don’t know. I was very bored in high school. I did not like high school. I quit when I was 16 and I went to [Logan Continuation School?]. I worked in the truant officer’s office (laughs) one day a week and I went to work at the A&P with my mother as a cashier. Because my mother said the only way they would let me quit school when I was 16 was to go to work. Because I wasn’t going to be hanging around with my friends on the street, I had to go to work which I did. I went to work for the A&P. However, when I was 28 years old, I took the [00:19:00] GED and passed a college entrance and went to Northeastern Illinois University at the field center -- we had a field center on Montrose and Sheridan. JJ: Okay. So you went to Northeastern? CC: Northeastern. JJ: How far did you go there? CC: I was there for a couple years because then they came and they opened a mental health center, Edgewater Uptown Mental Health Center. What they did was they hired all of us, the Young Patriots and other community groups, to be, I guess, mental health workers. See, they figured they could buy us and give us 14 �this salary. And we ran the emergency service. I worked in geriatrics for United Charities. At that time, in the ‘70s, they literally dumped people out of the mental institution and put them in [00:20:00] Uptown. Okay? In halfway houses and some in independent living. All right? So they hired a bunch of the community people to work with these people and stuff. And what I did was I worked in geriatrics. I worked with a whole lot of people who had been locked up for many years in like Manteno and Dixon. They literally just turned them out on the street and gave them apartments and they had them coming to this mental health center where they worked. Or I would go to their houses and make sure they were taking their medicine and stuff. But I got in trouble because all right, they had a psychiatrist who every person I sent in there would come out with a handful of prescriptions. I had people that I was seeing that their tongue was (puffs tongue) [00:21:00] like this because they were overmedicated and stuff. And I said that I thought [Mark Schuler?] was a pill pusher. And (laughs) I got called into his office and he asked me did I think I was a doctor? I said, “No. However, you don’t need to be a doctor to know that people are overmedicated when their tongue was swollen.” Or you’re making them -- all right. They didn’t want them to be a threat to the community. Well, they’re not a threat to anybody. They’re not -- they can barely function, some of these people. You’ve got them so medicated. They’re not a threat to themselves or anybody else. That was after the clinic -- after the Young Patriots clinic. JJ: You mentioned the Patriots. Who were they? 15 �CC: The Young Patriots, they were a street gang to begin with. They were guys, mostly guys, and they [00:22:00] were like street hustlers. They hustled people for money. They fought with guns and knives. JJ: They hustled -- who did they hustle? CC: The gay guys and stuff. They would hustle them sometimes. I really don’t want to go into detail about it but that’s -- yeah, anyway. They were hustlers. JJ: This was before you were political or...? CC: Political and then JOIN and SDS -- JJ: Before you were political. CC: Yes. And then JOIN and SDS came to the community and they got -- I don’t know because I wasn’t around them with the Patriots. But they got them -somehow, they organized them into opening up a food pantry where they give out and they talk to them and politicize these young kids. They were mostly southern [00:23:00] whites that were -- JJ: And what year was this? CC: This was in 19-- okay. It had to have been -- because I first got involved -- it was in ’66, okay? And they were around for a couple years. Maybe ’64, ’65, something like that. (crosstalk) My mother-in-law was involved with them and that’s how I got to meet them, my husband and I. They were going to do a march on Summerdale Police Station because one of the kids -- JJ: So this is after they became political. CC: Yes. JJ: So they weren’t hustling anymore? 16 �CC: They weren’t hustling any-- if they were, they weren’t telling. But I -- (laughs) but no. They were talking to people in the community, they were fighting [00:24:00] the police brutality because what happened, on Sunnydale, there was a kid -- I -and they were going to arrest him. They had in handcuffs and they shot him (laughs) in the back. Shot him. He’s on his knees on the sidewalk and they shot him to death. Said he was trying to escape arrest. JJ: And he was in handcuffs. CC: He was in hand-- behind his back. Because there was a police officer, his name was [Sam Joseph?], who was very brutal, okay? Just these kids, they would beat them up and threated to kill them. So we decided we were going to march on Summerdale Police Station with my mother-in-law and the Young Patriots. They got my husband, [Doug?] and I involved and that was my first experience with that [00:25:00] is I marched on Summerdale Police Station. I was pregnant with my son (laughs) and -- JJ: What’s your son’s name? CC: His name is [Jason?]. And yeah, I was pregnant with my son. JJ: You didn’t tell me -- did you tell me your daughter’s name? CC: Huh? JJ: Did you tell me your daughter’s name? CC: I didn’t have a daughter. JJ: Oh, you didn’t. CC: No. JJ: You just had a son. Okay. 17 �CC: A son -- I just had one son. JJ: We’re talking about brothers. CC: Yeah. Oh, I had a sister and brother. Yeah. No. JJ: Okay. What was their names? CC: Patricia and Ross. That’s my sister and my brother. But yeah, no, my son Jason. I was pregnant with my son Jason and I was marching with a sign on Summerdale Police Station (laughs) and then we started to get involved because the Patriots -- JJ: (laughs) Do you remember the sign? What it said or anything or...? CC: Sam Joseph -- get rid of Sam Joseph or something like that because he was very brutal. I mean, he was a really brutal police officer. He (laughs) and -- JJ: So you went marching with a sign, right? Were you excited? CC: With a sign, yeah. JJ: Were you excited or...? CC: Oh yeah. It was fun. I never had -- [00:26:00] because I -- I knew my mother-inlaw was into all this political stuff. My husband and I, his name was [Douglas Youngblood?], he didn’t really want to get involved because he was working at DuPont and we kind of stayed back. But once we got over there and it was with the Summerdale thing and stuff. He met Bobby Joe and Junebug and the Young Patriots and he got involved. I worked. I -- JJ: Bobby Joe and Junebug are leaders in the Young Patriots? CC: Yeah, they were like 17. Now, Doug and I were like 25 but these were like young kids -- 17, 18 years old, and -- 18 �JJ: So who was Doug making (inaudible)? (crosstalk) CC: He kind of became their spokesperson because he was a little older and he really got into it. I mean he was -- he got [00:27:00] involved. JJ: What do you mean he got into it? CC: With the police. Trying to stop the police brutality and into -- like the food. We had a food coop and we gave away clothes to -- second-hand clothes. And -- JJ: Now, was this the Young Patriots then? CC: It was the Young Patriots, yeah. JJ: They -- (crosstalk) CC: They had a little storefront. I would go there -- JJ: Where was that storefront? CC: It was right on -- it was forty-- oh, I got that address -- 4408, I believe, Sheridan Road. It was just a little storefront. And they had a clinic that wa-- now, see that all came out of JOIN when -- JOIN. But I’m trying to think. Doug was really good at writing up stuff. So they had him -- JJ: [00:28:00] (crosstalk) CC: And he became their spokesperson. I mean if you needed an article written or whatever, he was really good at the writing. JJ: He’s a writer. CC: Yeah. A writer writer and a poet -- a political poet he was, too. JJ: He got any poetry? CC: Yeah, he has some really good poetry that was published and stuff. He gave -- JJ: Is he alive? Or is he still alive? 19 �CC: No, he passed away four years ago October 5th. JJ: What happened? CC: He had cancer. He had colon cancer which it spread into his liver and he died. For about two and a half years, he survived but he passed away. And I’m trying to think. Out of that -- we had a clinic one day a week in a storefront. Then it just kind [00:29:00] of built up till we had -- we rented a whole suite of offices. In the building where the storefront was here and up above, there was like offices. We rented a whole suite of offices. We had doctors that were from Presbyterian-St. Luke, Billings Hospital, and they paid the rent on those offices. We had about 75 health workers working. We had the Visiting Nurses Association, we had medical students, fourth-year medical students, whose -- JJ: Medical students? CC: Yeah, medical students. We had people that were studying like lab technician stuff. We did our own urine testing, urine sampling, and blood tests. I learned how [00:30:00] to do a [hematocrit?] where you stick somebody in the finger and stuff. We used to take people back and forth to the hospital when they had to go. Or we would just go visit people to see if they were okay. Some were our patients and stuff. JJ: To what hospital did you take them? CC: It was Weiss Memorial and Cuneo. JJ: Mm-hmm. Did you work something out with them? CC: Yeah, we did. At Weiss Memorial, we had a guy. He was the -- what do they call that guy? The Human Resources person or... [Bob Cross?] -- his name was Bob 20 �Cross and he donated a bunch of medical equipment to us. Or they had sometimes samples of medicine. But mostly, our doctors -- I mean, we had the greatest doctors in the world. JJ: Do you remember any of them? CC: Yes. [John Wilsey?], he was in charge of an emergency room at Lutheran General. We [00:31:00] had [Gordon Lang?], he was in charge of the renal department at Pres-St. Luke’s. [Sam Jampolis?], he was at Billings in the cancer research. We had another doctor; I can’t remember his name. He did heart transplants. We had another guy, he was from Children’s Memorial Hospital. We had a bunch of people. Just I’ll tell ya. We did a lot of stuff with the community and talking to the community, but the real heroes were those doctors and those medical students, Cha-Cha. They just gave -- they volunteered their time. They paid for all those hospital -- the hospital -- all the examining rooms and stuff and they paid the rent on that suite things. Those [00:32:00] were the heroes. And they treated people -- okay. Normally if you go to a doctor, they ask you questions but you’re not really treated like a human being. But the people we had there, I mean they were treated like they’d never been treated in their lives. If they had questions, those doctors would answer any question you wanted to know. It wasn’t just a, “Take off your shirt. I’m going to get a stethoscope.” They really took an interest in people. One time, we had a -- we called it, pardon my language, “Piss on Brown.” [Murray Brown?] was in charge of the Board of Health. A lot of the problem we had in Uptown was lead poisoning because there were these slum buildings and these slumlords. They didn’t fix up these 21 �buildings. Paint was peeling and kids were getting lead poisoning from the paint. So what we did, Dr. Lang, he got a grant [00:33:00] that he said we had to collect at least 3,000 urine samples. We literally went -- besides what we did at the clinic when we came in, I went with [Dr. Jampolis?] and we literally knocked on doors and collected urine samples of people with some kids. JJ: So right at their house. CC: Right at their house. (laughs) We came out of this one building and I looked at [Sam?] and there were tears rolling down his face. I says, “Sam, what’s the matter?” He said, “I didn’t realize people had to live like that.” Paint peeling off and barely any furniture or food. The tears were rolling down his face. But what we did was we collected over 4,000 samples. We only were supposed to get 3,000 but of course, the Patriots have to do it a little better. So we got over [00:34:00] 4,000 urine samples a lot of which we did at our clinic because we did have a lab and stuff. But we took them to the Board of Health who was supposed to be doing this in the beginning and they weren’t testing for lead poisoning. Then they opened a -- JJ: So did they do it then? Did they test for -- CC: They did it then. Oh, yeah. Because Gordon Lang who is a very well-respected doctor, he did kidney transplants and stuff. They would’ve maybe messed with us but they weren’t going to mess with these doctors who were well-respected. They put up -- they tried to close our clinic down but when the Board of Health came and checked us out and checked our chart, they said we were better run than the Board of Health. Because we had everything in order. [00:35:00] We 22 �took no grants because if you take grants, you have to go by their guidelines. So everything was all voluntary. We were all self-running. We took no federal money because like I said, then they could tell you how to run it and what to do and we didn’t want to do that. But they wanted -- in order to -- okay. We only ran four nights a week. Then we started on Saturdays, we had. We were a limited number of people. So my husband Doug and the Young Patriots, they got together with some of the people in the community like [Ed Farmlat?] who was in charge of a bunch of halfway houses and some other people they talked to to try to get a public health hospital there in the area to take up the slack of what we couldn’t. We could only do so much. [00:36:00] The Board of Health decided that this group was fine and everything and they would set up and that the community could run it. That was a lie told, okay? Because when they finally got everything, then they said, “No, the community was not capable of making decisions, medical decisions,” after several years of the Patriots (laughs) running a free medical clinic without their help. So they set up this public health hospital which had been an old marine -JJ: So the hospital was saying that the community can’t run it? CC: They can’t run it. JJ: But the Patriots had run it. CC: The Patriots ran their own better than the Board of Health and better than anything they ever had. I’m not bragging but that’s the truth. JJ: Doctors were saying it, you know? 23 �CC: Yeah, the doctors. [00:37:00] But the Board of Health and the politicians. “Oh no, you can’t run your -- this public health hospital.” I had to go with [Ted Stein?] who was our attorney, the legal aid, lawyer, to the state’s attorney’s office because I was the bookkeeper and the -- to tell them about our clinic. I got there and he asked me what we did. I told him. I said, “Most of our patients are ambulatory.” Now, the state’s attorney looks me in the face and says, “How many ambulances do you have?” I said, “I have...” I really had to control myself. I said, “No, sir. Ambulatory means they’re able to walk on their own and they don’t need wheelchair access. (laughs) We have no ambulances.” (laughs) I was very proud of myself; I did not laugh out loud. [00:38:00] But when we got outside, Ted Stein said, “I can’t believe he asked that.” Yeah, he did. “How many ambulances do you have?” Well anyway, they opened this public health hospital and they were giving lousy treatment to the people in the community. I myself went there a couple weeks. Then we planned -- we were going to try to get them to stay open on weekends and longer hours because their hours were lousy and people were being turned away. So a couple weeks before that, we decided to send spies in and to see just how people were treated. I went into this doctor’s office and I described to him a urinary tract infection which I did not have. The only reason I knew all the information is from working in the clinic. They never took a urine sample from me. They never examined me. [00:39:00] I walked out of that office with two prescriptions for a urinary tract infection which I didn’t have. Then in a couple weeks, we -- on a Friday evening, we took about a hundred people there to that clinic. It was just before closing and came in there and said, 24 �“Oh, people can’t come in.” We had our doctors with us and the Visiting Nurses Association said they were going to take care of people or we were going to take over the rooms and examine the people ourself with our doctors. When we first got there, there were a whole bunch of police there waiting for us because they -it was supposed to be a secret. It was something with -- but somehow, it got out. They said if we didn’t leave, they were going to arrest us and we said we were not leaving. Then they brought seven paddy wagons [00:40:00] and arrested 43 of us of which I was 1. They arrested our doctors. Murry Brown (laughs) was down there. He was in charge of the Board of Health and said to Gordon Lang, “Please Gordon, don’t make me arrest you.” Gordon said, “If you’re going to arrest my people, you’re arresting me.” So they not only arrested the community people, they arrested a gentleman who had been the chief psychiatrist for the Air Force. They arrested the head of the renal department at Presbyterian-St. Luke’s, the person who was in charge of the cancer department at Billings Hospital, (laughs) all these people. They dropped seven paddy wagons, they arrested us, and took us to 11th and State. Then we had to go up like night court and they -JJ: Then the State is the central police station. The lockup. CC: Eleventh and State, yeah, that’s the big lockup. [00:41:00] They put us in all these cells. The thing that disturbed me about it is the men... With the women, they took away our glasses, everything from us. Plus those -- the matrons, they harassed the VNA. They did body cavity searches on them which was ridiculous. The men, they gave baloney sandwiches and let them keep their cigarettes and 25 �everything. The women, they just treated us -- they just herded us in there like cattle. There were 43 of us. So then we -- they brought us out and we had to go before a judge. They released us on our own recognizance. Okay, there were 43 of us. And when we went to court, the judge said, “Everybody arrested at 4141 [Thurman?], please come up to the front of the (laughs) front of the -- you know.” JJ: In a courtroom (crosstalk) CC: [00:42:00] Forty-three people stood up and (inaudible), “What is going on?” The VNA got in trouble, the Visiting Nurses Associa-- because they were wearing their uniforms when they got arrested. (laughter) But they were still allowed to come to our clinic, but yeah, it was funny. JJ: This protest was for what, I mean? CC: Huh? JJ: This protest was for what? CC: Because of the lousy treatment they were giving to people at that public health hospital. Their hours were not conducive to people being able to get there, they would close early, they were not open on weekends, they had no evening hours. The fact that I went in there and got two prescriptions for an infection I didn’t even have and was never examined. So they closed that place down. They did close it. It had been an old military hospital type thing. It was not quite the VA, but similar. [00:43:00] That’s what they gave us which was nothing. (laughs) Yes, I was -- okay. (laughs) My mother and my father -- my father was very proud of what I was doing. My mother was a little leery. The next day, oh. When 26 �we went to court, we got -- all they -- we got off -- it was dismissed as trespassing on public property. We were trespassing on public property. But the day after, I went to the clinic -- it was a Saturday. I was opening up the clinic and the phone, the pay phone was ringing, and it was my mother. (laughs) I said, “Hi.” She said, “Do you think that’s funny?” I said, “What are you talking about, ma?” JJ: Her name? I’m sorry. CC: Evelyn. Her name is Evelyn. I said, “What are you talking about?” JJ: What’s your father’s name again? CC: Ross. And my father, Ross. But my -- [00:44:00] (laughs), “Do you think that’s funny?” I said, “What are you talking about, Mom?” She said, “Did you see the Sun-Times this morning?” I said, “No, I just got here to the clinic so I don’t know.” She said, “Well, go buy yourself a copy of the Sun-Times.” (laughs) I said, “All right.” So I went downstairs and I got a copy of the Sun-Times. Right on the front page is me in the paddy wagon smiling. (laughs) JJ: Hmm. Oh, your mom was angry. CC: Oh, she was upset that I’d been arrested. I mean, she liked the idea of the clinic and then oh, no. That was a little different. (laughs) So I called her back and I -but my father carried that article and that picture in his wallet till the day he died. He was really proud and showed it to anybody that would look. JJ: Your father or father-in-law? CC: My father. JJ: Your mom couldn’t handle it. 27 �CC: Well, she kind of got it but I couldn’t -- [00:45:00] she says, “Do you think that’s funny?” I, “What are you talking about, ma? I don’t know what you’re talking about.” (laughs) But a friend of mine got some -- okay, they opened the Red Squad files or something and you could get it. A friend of mine got them -- JJ: Who is -- what is the Red Squad files? CC: The Red Squad was Mayor Daley’s police that he said didn’t exist that spied (laughs) on us and took pictures of us every time we came out of the clinic, all right? We would go like this (poses) and this (poses). JJ: So you knew they were watching? CC: Oh, yes, and we would pose and stuff. But they said that squad did not exist and only maybe in the last couple years, finally they admitted that there really was a thing called the Red Squad. JJ: And there were files. CC: And there were files but you would have to really know somebody to get them. I mean, they’re open, right? Like freedom of information? But everything is [00:46:00] blacked out just... However, when the person brought me these files, (laughs) the second page down, you know what was there? The picture of me in the paddy wagon. (laughs) And also, there was a thing about the Young Patriots that the alderman or something said, “You need to keep an eye on them,” and stuff. But there was other literature in there. But I couldn’t believe -- JJ: So the alderman (inaudible) -- CC: Yeah. They were -- yeah, that we were a danger to the community. JJ: Did you all get in the Red Squad car? 28 �CC: Yes. There is a cop, excuse me, a copy of that. The person that has them is supposed to get me copies of that. But I couldn’t believe second page down, there I am in the paddy wagon. (laughs) What used to get me is I -- JJ: You were -- CC: I didn’t understand why they -- I’m not a dummy. But why are they harassing us? All we’re trying to do is treat people like decent [00:47:00] human beings and see that they get the healthcare that they deserve. Or to -- with the food pantry, get some people who don’t have food food or clothing. Or trying... It seemed that if you were trying to make somebody’s life better whose life wasn’t that good, you were a communist or you were some kind of a terrorist. I never could understand that. It just amazing, simply amazing that -- JJ: You had said that you were raising [something?] around. Some supplies for the clinic? Is that (crosstalk) -- CC: Oh, we got those from Weiss Hospital. They gave us a -- [Dr. Sophol?], it was a Dr. Sophol who gave us a bunch of stuff and Bob Cross saw that we got some stuff. Some of the doctors also brought us stuff. But yeah, we were [00:48:00] run without anything from anybody. Really, like where they could tell us how we could run that clinic. Because if you allow them to tell you, then you’re no better than what you’re fighting against. So we were always self-sufficient. JJ: [Marta Chavita?] worked in the Young Lords -- CC: Marta Chavita. She worked -- okay. JJ: She worked in the Young Lords clinic. CC: Right, okay. 29 �JJ: How did you know her? CC: How did I know her? Because we would go on speaking engagements and talk to people and try to raise money for the clinics. JJ: Who’s we? CC: Okay. There was a -- the member from the Black Panthers was Doc Satchel, the Young Lords was Marta Chavita and myself from the Young Patriots. We got paid 300 dollars which we split between the three of us. We would go and talk to people. JJ: Who paid you? CC: Hmm? JJ: Who paid you? A school? CC: [00:49:00] No, it wasn’t a school. It was whatever group we went and talked to. Sometimes, we went and talked to college students. One time, I went and talked to 100 priests and nuns. (laughs) Scared me to death. Somebody told me, though, “Look out in the audience. Pretend they’re all naked.” (laughter) But that didn’t help; I was scared to death. But yeah, we would go try to raise money for the clinics. Then there was a trip to Canada where we -- I believe we thought we were going because it had something to do with medical care and stuff. Because they wanted one person from the Young Lords and one -- or a couple people from the Young Lords and some from the Patriots to go and some from the Black Panthers [00:50:00] also. So on the train were -- was Hilda Ignatin who was I believe at the time Latin American Defense Organization. Was she LADO then? I’m not sure. I think that’s what she was. 30 �JJ: I’m not sure. (phone rings) I’ll answer. (break in audio) CC: The Young Lords. Okay. We were invited and I don’t know who gave our names. There was -- women college students in Montreal wanted people from the clinics and stuff to come there to -- I thought it was about a health thing and I believed that Marta and everybody else believed that, too. We went on a train to Montreal and we stayed with some college students. They put us up in their apartments and stuff. Then we went to the college the next day [00:51:00] and while we were there, here came a procession of six little ladies. Three from North Vietnam and three from Laos. They marched and they went into the auditorium. When we got in there, we were seated in the auditorium. They had a screen, a movie screen, and what they showed us were pictures of our soldiers being shot down by the Vietnamese. I mean literally, they were shooting them and blowing up planes and everything. Afterwards, they said, “This is what’s happening to your soldiers over there. We don’t want to kill your brothers, your fathers, your -- and stuff; We want this war to end.” JJ: So these little Vietnamese. CC: They were Viet-- the tiniest little ladies you ever saw but they were [00:52:00] soldiers. JJ: Vietnamese women were there. CC: Yeah. They were soldiers, yeah. So then they said they were going to have a question and answer but all they wanted in there were third-world people. I’m not third-world; I’m Irish (laughs) -- an Irish Yankee (laughter) from Chicago. JJ: From Chicago. 31 �CC: Yeah, and so they didn’t want any white -- it was all women. It was all women. Okay. From the Young -- it was me from the Patriots. I don’t know the ladies from the Panthers but the Young Lords, it was Martha Chavita, a young lady named [Lupe?], [Guadalupe?], [Trinny?] and [Angie?]. JJ: [Angie Linn?]? (inaudible) CC: Okay. I didn’t know her last name. I know her face. I can -- yeah. JJ: Yeah, she was at the -- it was a women’s conference. CC: Yeah, it was a women’s conference. And so they wanted me to leave. Marta [00:53:00] and Lupe and them, they said, “No. She’s with us. If she’s not allowed in here, we’re leaving. We’re going. She’s --” They said, “She’s not third-world or what,” and Marta said, “What do you mean? Her name [Carmen?].” (laughter) My name tag said Carol. They got me a new name tag and for the -- I think we were there two days -- I had a name tag that said Carmen. (laughs) I loved those ladies. We got along so well and on the train -we were on the train a long time. They just were fantastic ladies and laughed and talked. We had a lot of things in common -- kids and the clinics. But while we were there, Angie got a phone call. When she came back, [00:54:00] it -- she said oh, her husband -- they told her her husband was in the hospital or been hurt or something and she had to go back to Chicago. JJ: Her husband named [Pancho?]. CC: Pancho, yeah. So she left. We got her on an airplane and got her out of there back to Chicago. What we came to find out was he was not in the hospital; he was not. He was, in fact, dead. That he had been walking down the street and 32 �two guys jumped out of a car and beat him to death with baseball bats and killed him. That’s something that when I think about -JJ: So Angie was a Young Lord and her husband was a Young Lord. CC: She was a Young Lord and her husband was a Young Lord, yes. To me, that’s something, Cha-Cha, that I never forgot ever since then. When I think about Canada, I think about what we [00:55:00] -- the movie and all that other stuff. But that’s what stands out in my mind that some moron would just because somebody was not white. I had been down South, we had been down South organizing -- JJ: Was he killed because he was Puerto Rican? CC: Because he was Puerto Rican. Yes, yes, yes. JJ: Mexican and Puerto Rican. CC: I had been down South and we had marched with King and stuff. I never saw anything like that. Ever. And it was terrible. We were threatened down there and everything. But for that to happen in Chicago to me was just unconscionable. I had a hard time dealing with that after I -- (laughs) JJ: You got to know Angie while you were there? What do you remember? What do you remember of Angie? CC: I got to know Angie and Marta. I remember her being a very sweet young lady. [00:56:00] Mostly, we talked. All of us when we were there -- like I said, our kids and the clinic. Just a bunch of ladies yap yap yapping. At night, we would -- we had sleeping bags and stuff. We slept on the floor in this apartment with these college students and stuff. We would be gigglin’ and stuff. We were supposed to 33 �be sleeping because we had to go (laughs) -- we would just be giggling like a pajama party or... (laughs) We were just so professional. We went to some French restaurants because we were in -- and that’s the first time I ever had crepes. We just walked around the city. But they were kind of leery of people coming in at that time because not too long before that, a prime minister or something had been [00:57:00] kidnapped by some left-wing people. I don’t remember who that was. So they were a little leery about anybody that was to the left a little bit. I’m trying to think. JJ: What about Marta? You got to know Marta. CC: I knew Marta pretty well, yeah. JJ: What do you remember about Marta? CC: Just that she was really nice and very sweet and intelligent. Very intelligent lady. JJ: Okay. She worked with you. She went and got stuff for the clinic, you said? CC: No, we went and we gave talks about the clinic. Yeah. It was always us. JJ: You said she’s -- CC: But sometimes, Doug and I would go over there and just visit with her and [Alberto?]. JJ: Okay, so the -- CC: Yeah, we kind of socialized with them. JJ: Because Alberto was also a Young Lord. CC: Yeah, her husband. Him and Doug got along real well. JJ: Because [00:58:00] at that time, was there a coalition or something or...? CC: Yeah, it was the Rainbow Coalition. Yeah. 34 �JJ: Who was that? (inaudible) CC: I believe that was the -- that was Chuck Geary, the Patriots, the Lords, the Panthers, some other people. JJ: You said that was the Rainbow Coalition. CC: That was the Rainbow Coalition. JJ: So that’s when you guys, you went to speak together -- the women. CC: Right. The three -- the Black, the Latin, and the white person was me. JJ: (inaudible) time together. CC: Yeah. The three of us. JJ: You guys were just talking about -- you were representing the -- CC: I was representing the Young Patriots, Marta the Young Lords, and Doc Satchel, the Black Panthers. Yeah. JJ: Do you remember what places you spoke at? CC: No. We went different places. Like sometimes, a school. Sometimes, it was just in a -- at a room where people came. JJ: Then the money was divided? CC: The money was divided between the three people. Yeah, so -- well, the three clinics, not the three people. I didn’t get the money personally. Yeah, right. JJ: (crosstalk) It went to the clinic. (inaudible) Okay. Tell me about Doug. (inaudible) CC: Okay. What can I tell you about Doug Youngblood? I met him when I was 16 years old. He was new to the neighborhood and he started hanging out with my brother. 35 �JJ: Who is your brother? CC: My brother Ross. JJ: You told me three times already. CC: Then he would -- that’s all right. He would come to my house with my brother supposedly to look at comic books because they -- I know they were 16 but they were still into the comic books [01:00:00] and stuff. He kind of liked me but I had another boyfriend who would get really upset because (laughs) when he would come to bring me home, there would be Doug sitting there with my brother. The young man I was going with got in some trouble and got sent to Minnesota. He had gone to the Audy Home and the way that his mother got him out was to send him to his brother’s in Minnesota. So he was gone and Doug was there. (laughs) And he pursued me. JJ: He persuaded you. CC: He pursued me. JJ: He pursued you. CC: We lived in an apartment building where there was a basement where you did your laundry. Everybody had their washing machine in there and stuff. One night, he went down there to help me carry the laundry back up. When we were going out, he stood in front of the basement door, told me I wasn’t getting out of there unless I gave him a kiss which I did. First I said, “Get out of my way,” but then he was [01:01:00] -- and we -- then we were together for a long time. Then he moved to Michigan -- Jackson, Michigan because his -- with his mom and stuff. So we were separated for a while but when he came back, we got together 36 �and eventually got married and had a son, Jason, and got involved. His mother was married to this guy [Gil Terry?] who -- I remember when I first met Doug, he said to me, “My stepfather is a communist.” I said (nods) but he was. Gil Terry was a communist. JJ: Is it Doug’s...? CC: Doug’s stepfather, yeah. They were involved in politics and stuff and you know, sure. JJ: [01:02:00] But why is he telling you that? CC: He told me that after we’d been together for -- because I think -- Doug at first told me that -- JJ: Did he look at that bad or good or...? CC: Bad. JJ: That he was a communist? CC: Yeah, because he was a communist and we (inaudible). But all Gil was was, Gil Terry, was a man. He cared about people and like us and he politicized Peggy, Doug’s mother Peggy, and (crosstalk) got her involved in stuff. Peggy Terry is -yeah, it’s Peggy Terry. Yeah. JJ: Peggy Terry, isn’t she the one that ran for...? CC: She ran for vice president of the United States on the Peace and Freedom Party ticket with Eldridge Cleaver. And I have a bumper sticker some place that says that. JJ: That’s your mother-in-law. 37 �CC: My mother-in-law, yes. Who was a great lady who really taught me most of what I know about anything. She politicized me. (laughs) I always cared about people. You know what I’m saying. [01:03:00] But I -- JJ: How did she get to the Peace and Freedom? What was she doing to get up there? CC: When JOIN came in, they got her involved in all that. It was them. JJ: It was them. So she was a member of JOIN? CC: Yeah. But she also -- they had this thing that was called WRDA, Welfare Recipients Demand Action. We had a block club and a tenants union. Also, we used to go to South Water Market and we had a food coop where we bought food for real cheap and stuff. We had one lady (laughs) that was in charge of the money and her and her husband [Dominic?], they decided to take off with the money (inaudible). So you had to be careful. But then I took charge of it so [01:04:00] and I did run away with the money. (laughs) But see, my background at that time was in bookkeeping and stuff. So I was real good about keeping books and keeping -- JJ: How did you get into that? CC: Bookkeeping? From high school. I learned in high school. Then I went to comptometer school. Comptometer, it was an adding machine. It was 10 keys across and 10 keys up and down. That’s what you added stuff. I could do that without looking like a typewriter could type stuff. I worked for ACNielsen as a comptometer operator. (break in audio) 38 �JJ: Testing one, two, three. Go ahead. Go ahead and say something. Go ahead and say something, Carol, please. CC: Hello. JJ: Okay. CC: Can you hear me? JJ: Testing one, two, three. This is interview number two. (break in audio) Okay, we [01:05:00] were talking about Doug, you said? CC: Yeah. I mean, here’s this young man who grew up in Ozark, Alabama, Paducah, Kentucky and stuff. Had never gone to high school, never graduated. I think he graduated from grammar school, never went to high school, not much of an education, who could write the most beautiful poetry, like political poetry, and just write up -- write on everything imaginable and who sounded like he had a college degree. (laughs) Honest to God. He was amazing -- an amazing man. But he -- JJ: How far did he go to school? CC: He only went to eighth grade. He never went to -- but he’s -- he got a GED in later years when we were in our 20s and then went to Northeastern also. [01:06:00] But he gave a poetry class at Stanford University (laughs) once. But he wrote political poetry and stuff and read. That man -- JJ: What kind of stuff did he write and [read?]? CC: It was against I don’t know, the police and the government. [Hythern?] has some of his poetry I gave him. Plus we put out a poetry book, the Young Patriots, called Time of the Phoenix and some of his poetry is in there. But he just -yeah. He was just amazing and he was reading all the time. I just cleared out 39 �the basement of books. He had books on everything imaginable. Nothing disinterested him. I mean, he’d read just everything. Not just political stuff; everything. And he was into -- he started painting. Oh, his paintings are upstairs. But [01:07:00] painting. Just beautiful. I didn’t know he could do that. He just was into everything. He was an amazing man and he passed away four years ago. JJ: You said cancer. CC: Cancer but we were together. We weren’t married that long, but we were together 50 years. JJ: Fifty years? CC: Fifty years. Yeah. Because we met in ’58 and he died in ’08. We were together 50 years so it was a long time. And I miss him; I really miss him. There were times I wonder (laughs) that I even miss that. That’s power for when you’re married to somebody. We just weren’t the -- what the -- [01:08:00] like on the TV families where everybody’s so happy. We weren’t like that. But we did pretty good. JJ: But you did pretty good, right? I mean you were happy sometimes. (inaudible) CC: Oh, we were happy most of the time. It’s just every once in a while. That was always all his fault, of course. (laughter) I would like to believe that but I know it’s not the truth. Yeah. JJ: But how were the Young Patriots? Did you know each other pretty well or did you visit each other or...? CC: What, with the Young Patriots? 40 �JJ: Yeah. CC: Oh, we were married when we got into the Young Patriots because we’d been together since we were 16. Like I said, he moved away because Peggy moved to Paducah -- not Paducah -- Jackson, Michigan. He was gone a couple years and then he came back and we were together after that. JJ: Okay, you want to talk about Peggy, too. What about...? CC: Peggy. When I met Peggy, I was 16 and she was like 36 [01:09:00] years old. The most amazing woman you ever want to meet in your entire life. She just -you’re talking about a woman I don’t think even finished public school, grammar school or anything. Had no real education at all who became -- it’s because of her. She was like a historian, too. She kept all this stuff from all those years ago and just got into and started becoming very vocal. Talking about welfare, the police. She worked with doc-- very closely with Dr. King and she marched in Mississippi. She wound up with 12 broken vertebrae in her back because when the police beat them with fire hoses. That’s not fair. She was an [01:10:00] amazing woman. Just an amazing lady. For coming from -- she’s just a little -she’s a little hillbilly girl. Dumb hillbilly girl, didn’t know nothing and then she just (snapped). She was the first person, the first white person, that was on Jet magazine. I -- yeah. I don’t know if you’ve heard of Jet magazine. JJ: Yeah, I have. CC: Yeah. She was the first white person that was on there. They have an article on her. JJ: I’ll look at it. 41 �CC: Yeah, yeah. She worked -- mainly, she started out with the civil rights stuff. But that was because of Gil. Like I say, he was a -- into politics and he got her involved. I don’t think he realized what he created when he started politicizing her (laughs) because she just went -- she was just amazing. JJ: [01:11:00] So she did a lot of stuff in Uptown? CC: Oh, a whole lot. A lot of stuff in Uptown. JJ: (crosstalk) Were you living in Uptown then or...? CC: Yeah, we lived in Uptown. And she -- yeah. JJ: How long did you live there? CC: We lived there up until the ‘70s. JJ: From what year? CC: Okay. We lived there from about 1965 to 1973. JJ: Oh was it? CC: Yeah. JJ: What was it like then? CC: Uptown. Uptown? It was like the ghetto. It was a lot of slum buildings and stuff. A lot of crime. (laughs) JJ: How did it feel like? CC: I was used to that. (laughter) JJ: You [01:12:00] called it the ghetto but you were living there. (laughs) CC: I didn’t know the word ghetto till I -- they politicized it with ghetto. What are you talking about ghetto? (inaudible) JJ: (laughs) This is my hangout. 42 �CC: Yeah, right, this is my neighborhood. (laughs) JJ: So how was it? Was it a neighborhood or did people know each other or...? CC: Well, not really. People, I think, were suspicious of each other. It was a very diverse community. There were Blacks, whites, Hispanics, some Orientals, and stuff. They -- until JOIN came and they got to -- I don’t think the people were that close together. You know what I’m saying? And then JOIN kind of organized them and people got -- you got to know your neighbors were... Like I said, the neighborhood I grew up in, you knew everybody in the building and all the kids in your neighboring buildings and stuff. But that was the [01:13:00] ‘40s, ‘50s. Now, this is a little different and nobody, I don’t think, knew each other or trusted each other (laughs) all that much. Then they came together with the block club and that we had a tenants union and a (coughs) -- and a food coop. Plus, we -we had our hands in a little bit of everything. There was a lady, [Kit Komatsu?], who came. Peggy brought her back from -- when they were marching in Mississippi, she brought her to town, Kit Komatsu. Had a group that was called CAMP, Chicago Area Military Project. What they did was they printed up a newspaper and took it to military camps and soldiers because it was against the war but not against the soldiers. Do you know what I’m saying? Because there were some soldiers that were involved in that. One I remember particularly, his name was [Jeff Sharlet?]. He had been a [01:14:00] special forces. He would sit there and tell us about how they used to go in these towns in Vietnam and literally kill the mayor and stuff. What he wound up and a lot of soldiers was that Agent Orange. He wound up -- see, that’s the thing. They were spraying all this 43 �stuff but they weren’t getting the Vietnamese; They were getting our soldiers, too. A lot of our soldiers came back with that Agent Orange and cancer and all this. Then she -- Peggy brought her in and we started this newspaper called Firing Line where she would keep me up, Kit, till three o’clock in the morning (laughs) cutting with an X-Acto knife to make these little cows and all this. (laughter) I hated that newspaper. I didn’t hate it but I hated to have to [01:15:00] because she would not let me out. The Young Patriots Bobby Joe -- okay, Peggy was very political and Bobby Joe McGinnis, Junebug and I’m trying to -- and somebody else and I. There was a program on TV called The Fugitive and it was the last night when they were going to catch the one-arm man. We got up out of a meeting, a tenants’ meeting. Me, Bobby, and Junebug (laughs) went to my house to watch the last episode of The Fugitive. Peggy was so mad at us. We said, “We don’t care about the tenants’ union. We got to see -- catch the onearm man.” (laughs) Well, what can I say? (laughs) And over the years, she used to bring that up (laughs) about how we were more interested in The Fugitive than the -- well, anyway. They survived without [01:16:00] us. JJ: What about -- you mentioned Chuck Geary before. CC: Chuck Geary. JJ: Did you know him pretty good or...? CC: Yeah, I knew him and I -- well -- JJ: Because he was an activist there, right? CC: Yeah, he was -- Hythern would be more because he was involved with him. I knew Chuck Geary and I -- his daughter [Marcella?] ran around with us. I was 44 �close to Marcella. In fact, I can’t find her. We talked to her in 2007. She used to call here and I know she’s in Texas someplace. But we can’t... I tried calling the phone number I had and it’s disconnected. So but that -- Marcella. Yeah, Chuck Geary, he was a good guy and stuff. But he was more for working within the system rather than trying to change -- to work along with people. His idea of helping people and somebody said it was a good id-- [01:17:00] he bought a bunch of (laughs) chicken farms and threw these people out there and they were raising chickens. (laughter) I’m sorry. (snorts) JJ: They were raising chickens? CC: Yes. They were -- JJ: So you didn’t think that was a good thing? CC: No. (laughter) I guess the -- JJ: What should they have been doing instead of raising chickens? CC: They had nothing so he’s -- he set them up and whatever. They had all these chicken farms and I think that was in Kentucky. (laughs) I’m not sure. I -Hythern could probably tell you more (laughs) about the chicken farms. JJ: So chicken were going back and forth to Kentucky? Is that what you’re saying? CC: I think they all moved down there is what -- but he had all these chickens. (laughs) JJ: Oh, he moved them there -- CC: He moved them there. (laughs) JJ: -- to a chicken farm. (laughter) 45 �CC: [01:18:00] He always reminded me of one of those southern preachers, Chuck Gea-- because he was always preaching. He was the Reverend Chuck Geary. I don’t know which church (laughs) he was at, but he was a Reverend Chuck Geary. JJ: He had some (inaudible) CC: (laughter) Yeah, right. But -- JJ: But he preached pretty good or...? CC: Oh yeah, oh yeah. And he had a lot of people that believed in him. And he was not a bad person, Chuck. I like Chuck Geary. JJ: You didn’t like chickens. CC: I -- no. (laughter) I was not about to go to the chicken farm. (laughs) My chicken, it’s got to be plucked and on my plate. That’s the only thing I want with chicken, but -- JJ: I did hear he was a good leader. CC: He was a good leader. I mean, he could -- he had a -- he could talk. You know what I’m saying? And make you believe everything he was saying. [01:19:00] Not that he wasn’t honest. You know what I’m saying. But oh yeah, he was very -- JJ: He worked kind of within the system and you wanted to -- CC: Right, and we were revolutionaries. That’s what we considered ourself revolutionary. JJ: What does that mean? 46 �CC: We would fight for what we believe rather than try to work or take concessions or make concessions. That’s my understanding of revolutionary. We were rabblerousers. JJ: How did -- there’s another -- a better word. Rabble-rousers. CC: Yeah, rabble-rousers, yeah. JJ: But you would fight for what you believe instead of compromising. CC: Right, what we believe in. Yeah, or compro-- or taking -- that’s why we never took federal funding or anything for the clinic. Because I said once you let those people in, they’ll tell you how to run it. Before you know it, you’re not running it at all, they’re running [01:20:00] it. The reason we started the clinic to begin with was so we could do better than what they had. JJ: Okay. So in Uptown, you had -- so okay. So they can do better than what they had? CC: We could do better. The community and the community was well able to tell us what they wanted or to do for themselves. See, that was the problem with -when JOIN came, when the students came. In the beginning, it was really good because they brought all these ideas and everything. However, they didn’t want to let go and they sometimes treated the people like they were little children or something and that they had to be told what to do. These women that they were organizing and stuff were becoming more powerful and more -- and thinking more and wanting more. And able to vocalize that and go and do some. But the students didn’t want to let go. [01:21:00] It’s like little children -- you cannot... 47 �They told them, “We don’t need you. We’re not little children, we’re not idiots and we know what we want. We’re not your little project.” (laughs) JJ: Like they’re parenting -- they were parenting. CC: Yeah, right. JJ: Patronizing probably. Something like that. CC: Oh yeah, patronizing. Yeah. So a lot of the students were good people -- JJ: So the majority of the students -- they just later on, they got into -- they got into patronizing. CC: Yeah. In the beginning, too. “Oh, we’re going to save the community,” and all this and that’s okay. But if you’re going to teach people, you got to let go. It’s like with children. You got to let your kid walk on his own. You kind of watch maybe to make sure they’re not going to fall down a hole or something. But you got to let go. See? They didn’t [01:22:00] want to let go. JJ: So the Patriots believe in letting go so that then people could go by themselves -- CC: Right. (crosstalk) and various people became more knowledgeable about what they were entitled to and what they could do. JJ: So they were not just giving handouts. (crosstalk) CC: That’s right, that’s right. People were doing things and people were starting to feel good about themselves. Yeah, I can make a difference, you know? But the students were like, “You can’t do this without us.” So that’s that. Like they moved into the neighborhood -- okay. (laughs) I shouldn’t tell this story. There was a young lady and she moved into one of the apartments, one of the [Claremont?] building apartments. Once a week, her parents, chauffer and the 48 �maid would come and clean her apartment and take her laundry and do her laundry. However, she was living in poverty. She saw that as living in poverty and I’m not going to mention her name because she is pretty well-known. [01:23:00] I said to her, “What’s the matter with you? Do you really think these women can relate to you?” Here you are, your chauffer and your -- and they would pull up in a limo or whatever and (laughs) they’d come clean her apartment. They never worked. All right? That’s another thing is they -- a lot of these people, if you [wanted?] them over, a lot of women were out working trying to support their families. These students were not working. I don’t know where their money was coming from. It had to have been from their mothers and fathers or whatever. You can’t say, “We’re just like you.” You’re not. But they were well-meaning. I don’t mean to cut them that because there were a lot of -they meant well. They just didn’t know when to let go. And there -- [01:24:00] what can I say? (laughs) JJ: I understand that they -- that it was important to let go to create sort of -- CC: Right. They created something. They gave people tools to work with and I think they didn’t expect that they were going to get the -- that they were going to succeed. JJ: (laughs) CC: You know what I’m saying? (laughs) What’s the thing? (inaudible) “I’m going to do this,” and all of a sudden just... These people really have voices and they can really express themselves and they can do things and make decisions for 49 �themselves. It was like, “Hmm, be careful what you wish for,” (laughs) kind of thing. JJ: So what was the -- what kind of issues did you program with JOIN and all that? CC: I wasn’t involved that much in JOIN -- not myself. I just know this from my mother-in-law who was Peggy Terry. JJ: [01:25:00] For example, what was the housing like in Uptown? CC: The housing was terrible. JJ: It wasn’t -- CC: You had buildings where the back porches were literally falling. The kids were falling through the porches and some getting killed or maimed or there was painting peeling off the ceilings and stuff. The lead paint. They didn’t -- the halls were filled with trash and stuff. I mean, it’s just terrible. The buildings were -- JJ: Were these two- or three-storey buildings or...? CC: Yeah, yeah. These had been nice buildings at one point. But the landlords, all they did was take the rent and they never fix up the property. And if you didn’t like it, you could move. That’s the way it was. A lot of it was like there weren’t leases, see? It was like monthly. [01:26:00] Or some places, there were some furnished places that were weekly and stuff like that. And then urban renewal decided they were going to come in and -- JJ: So what happened there? CC: Urban renewal? They wanted to build that Truman College over there on Wilson Avenue and they were going to tear down a bunch of the buildings. We fought them about that because what are you going to do about the people that are 50 �living here? Are you going to move them into...? They did give people like a first month’s rent. They had to find an apartment and then they would pay the first month’s rent to move there or wherever. But they had to find their own. They were going to just tear down these buildings and where are these people going to go? And they didn’t care. JJ: This was the city. CC: The city, yeah. Urban renewal because they wanted to build the -- which they did, the Truman College. (laughs) Terrible. JJ: Now, this was [01:27:00] you. This was the -- CC: The JOIN. That was JOIN. JJ: (crosstalk) CC: Yeah, and all Young Patriots, we went there to the meetings with urban renewal and we fought with the Uptown National Bank (laughs) is who was -- JJ: The Uptown National Bank was part of it? It was -- CC: Yeah. It was part of the urban renewal and this [Yurania Dumofley?] was her name. They didn’t care about the people. I can get rid of the -- see, you get rid of the neighborhood, you get rid of the people. It was in Uptown there, there was one street, I can’t think of the name where [Ed Farr?] lived, it’s all mansions. In the middle of the ghetto, there’s this street where there’s all mansions and all these rich people live. We said to them, “Would you like some of our tenants to come move in your neighborhood? [01:28:00] (laughs) Maybe you can put us up in some of the buildings you have there.” No, no, they didn’t want any part of that. So where are you gonna move these people? But -- 51 �JJ: When did you move from Uptown? CC: I moved from Uptown in 1973. I moved actually into Edgewater and then into Rogers Park. I lived in Rogers Park, yeah. JJ: (crosstalk) You skipped one there. Now, were you being pushed out or you just went on your own? CC: No, I just went on my own. And I worked for ATA which was Aid to Alcoholics and that came out of the mental health center. We opened up the men medical detox center and I worked there. Okay. And that, I moved to Rogers Park and -- JJ: How did you get into that over there? CC: Because [01:29:00] of the mental health center, I worked with United Charities with geriatrics. But I was more interested in working with drug addicts and alcoholics and stuff. So -- JJ: Why were you into that? CC: Because most of the people (laughs) I ran around with were like that. Also at the time, I had kind of an alcohol problem myself. We had a storefront and then we opened up -- JJ: I mean, you became like a counselor. CC: A counselor, yeah. A counselor. But the terrible thing was I was also at that time drinking. (laughs) JJ: Drinking and counseling at the same time. CC: But most of the counselors and stuff were recovering alcoholics that worked in there. I was still a practicing alcoholic. (laughter) I didn’t know I was practicing but I was practicing. But then we -- 52 �JJ: Don’t they call it denial or something? CC: Yeah, denial. Absolutely. [01:30:00] And then the man who ran it was Reverend Jack Norgaard. That was [Lutheran Welfare Services?] ran that. He knew that I had a problem because people would see me out on the street and stuff. He came to my house and said to me -- never threatened my job, nothing. “You’ve got one week to get Jason,” my son, because Doug and I were split up at that time. Have Peggy, my mother-in-law, take care of Jason. He was taking me out to Mercy center in Aurora here for the alcohol treatment program. Because he said, “There’s people that are really concerned about you and they don’t want to see -- they want to see you live a little longer.” I’m thinking, “Oh, Jack. I’m not an alcoholic.” Anyway. So I let him take me out there to Mercy center and I haven’t had a drink since 1975 -- October of 1975. JJ: [01:31:00] That’s -- CC: Thirty-three years. Well, no, it wasn’t. Thirty-seven years. JJ: Congratulations. That’s pretty good. CC: But I -- JJ: Did you go to any program or did you just...? CC: Yeah, I went to -- it was an alcohol treatment program they have at Mercy center and -- JJ: And how long were you there? CC: I was there for 30 days. Okay? When I came back out, I went back to work at the drop-in center, the storefront we had. Then in a couple months, I helped open the non-medical detox center. We had a building that used to be a nursing 53 �home. There were like three floors and I worked in triage where the police would bring us people off the street and stuff. JJ: You detoxed. CC: Yeah, we detoxed. JJ: I worked in a detox. CC: Did you? JJ: Yeah. CC: But it was non-medical so they -- we had a lot of people shaking and -- JJ: Shakes and all that. CC: Yeah. Yeah. JJ: Mine was medical. They had a (inaudible). CC: [01:32:00] Was it medical? Where did you work, Cha-Cha? JJ: I was in Michigan. CC: Oh, in Michigan? JJ: (inaudible). I started in Chicago -- I was a counselor in Chicago, too. CC: Oh. JJ: (inaudible) CC: Yeah, and I got an ENT card -- JJ: Before the counseling, I started on my own. (laughs) CC: Oh, you were like me. Yeah. JJ: (laughs) (crosstalk) CC: That’s it. I never looked back and I’ve never regretted. Never regretted giving that up. I used to tell Jack, Reverend Norgaard, I’d say, “You saved my life.” 54 �“No, I didn’t.” I’d say, “Yes, you did. You saved my life. You really saved my life.” And the thing about it was a lot of the people that they brought into the detox (laughs) that were people I drank with. They listened to me because they knew I had been there and done that. The only problem is -JJ: It really helps you if you’re helping somebody else. CC: Oh, yeah. And I had to go to AA and one of the counselors at the storefront we had, him and his wife, every night, they took me to AA and I’d (inaudible)... [01:33:00] They took me to this one place that used to be a funeral home. I would be sitting in a chair and right across the street, there was a tavern and this Budweiser sign would flash on and I would think this is hell. (laughs) This is hell. I’m being punished. (laughter) JJ: (inaudible) CC: But I ran AA meetings. We had a -- like a dining room type thing. I got paid to play Pinochle with these... (laughs) When I worked triage, then I worked with the people that were really when they first came in and stuff. But then when I worked on the second floor, I used to get to go in the day room and play Pinochle. Now, they used to call me the warden. I worked on third shift and I would come in and people would be running to their rooms. “Here comes the warden,” right? I knew they were bringing [01:34:00] booze in somehow -- somehow. I sat one night and I waited and I heard noise and I went down by the day room. Here, they had a rope outside the window and somebody was standing in the gangway and they were pulling booze through the window and I busted them. Then I went from room to room and the ceiling tiles. Went up in there and I got every bottle I could 55 �find -- I mean stuff. I had a setup at the nurses’ station. Just say goodbye -wave bye-bye. (laughs) That’s how they started to call me the warden because I made a raid and (crosstalk) I said, “This is a -- you’re busted. It’s not going to happen anymore.” (crosstalk) But it -- I loved those guys. I would be standing on the corner in Chicago waiting for the bus and here would come one of the drunk, “Carol.” They’d be hugging me and people would be looking at me. (laughs) I was like, “Oh my God.” [01:35:00] I knew every drunk in Uptown. (laughter) Yeah. That was exciting. That’s what I did. JJ: So you get clean you said 37 years or...? CC: I’ve been sober 37 years. Yeah. Yeah. JJ: Thirty-seven years. CC: Yeah, thirty-seven years this month. JJ: (inaudible) CC: I never regretted it; Never ever. (laughs) I don’t know why I drank, in fact. You know what I’m saying? I don’t... But that’s something that was started when I was a teenager. I mean, that was the thing you did. You drank and -- JJ: You were a teenager when everybody was out on the same corner and that’s all they did. CC: Yeah, right. That’s all we did was drink. Some people did drugs. Like I said, I was terrified of drugs and I never... Now, when I got a little older, I did try. [01:36:00] I smoked pot. I didn’t inhale; Yes, I did. (laughs) But I never got into anything like needles. I hate needles and stuff like that. But you have your peers 56 �are there and they’re doing this and you -- so you decide you’re going to try it, but -JJ: In terms of the Young Patriots, what do you think was their contribution in the (inaudible)? CC: What was their contribution? JJ: Yeah. I mean their -- CC: Mostly, the clinic. They taught people that they didn’t have to treated like garbage, that they were worthwhile human beings. They had a right to have good healthcare, they a right to eat, (laughs) they had a right to live in conditions that weren’t falling [01:37:00] apart. They organized a lot of people -- a lot of community people. It was surprising that people got really involved. You start to feel like you’re worth something. Here, you got people telling you you’re a worthless hillbilly or something and you start to believe that. Then they saw that they weren’t. That they could do something. They could fight City Hall. Maybe we didn’t win all the time but you could do that. You were allowed to do that. You were allowed to stand up for yourself and say, “I am somebody and I deserve to be treated like somebody.” I believe that’s what the Patriots taught and I think the Patriots themselves. Here you got young guys that were just street hustlers who became different -- their lives are changed. They’re not in prison [01:38:00] which is probably where they would’ve wound up had they not gotten (inaudible) with stuff. They would probably be in prison or dead. I believe that. I really believe that. JJ: What are some final thoughts on that? 57 �CC: Hmm? JJ: Some final thoughts. CC: Final thoughts? I’m glad I was there, I’m glad I was involved. I’ve never been ashamed of what I was involved with. I would do it again. I don’t know about at this age because I can’t run as fast, for one thing. (laughter) Yeah. I’m glad I was there. I’m glad that maybe I made a difference; That I did change people’s lives or maybe educate people how they could change their lives. I’m glad I was here and I’ve never been ashamed. I’m not ashamed today. JJ: [01:39:00] Any other thoughts? Anything we forget to talk about? CC: No. I told you -- JJ: What about the relationship with the -- how did people feel between the Panthers and the Patriots or the Young Lords? CC: The Panthers. We didn’t have so much contact with the Panthers. The Panthers were -- let’s see -- on their own page. (laughs) How can I say? We were closer, I believe, to the Young Lords than the -- because the Young Lords, they ran their clinic and they were interested in the people. The Panthers? I don’t know. Sometimes I had some problems with them. JJ: What kind of problems? CC: They would call me on a -- when I was running the clinic one time and they said there’s a meeting. They were having a meeting and I had to come to this meeting. Because like I said, I was a certain -- that was my thing. [01:40:00] I said, “We’re running the clinic.” “Well, we’re the Black Panthers.” I said, “Look, I don’t care. When the clinic is over, then I will be there.” All right? All right. They 58 �had this -- these new cars and stuff and vehicles they were transporting. We had this little stinking station wagon (laughs) that was always breaking down. But -JJ: So you just didn’t have a lot of contact with them. That’s (inaudible). CC: Right. I had no animosity towards them but I really questioned their politics. The Chicago Panthers, anyway. JJ: What do you mean their politics? (crosstalk) CC: They were more -- I don’t know how to say this. (laughs) JJ: No, no, I think it’s fine. CC: It’s like -- JJ: You’re talking personally because (inaudible) -- of course there were, some of the other people were more [01:41:00] in communication with them -- with the Panthers. But you were in the clinic so you didn’t -- CC: Yeah, right. I was in the clinic and stuff and I just -- JJ: All you wanted to do was just do the clinic. CC: I just wanted to do what I was -- JJ: The clinic, right? CC: -- the clinic -- JJ: That’s what the Panthers -- CC: -- and to be helping people and -- JJ: And that’s what the Panthers wanted you to do anyway, right? CC: -- they just wanted to do, “Okay, it’s fine to beat your chest and all this other sun talk,” and sit here in a meeting and BS and talk about nothing as far as I’m concerned. I was about doing stuff. Like I said, I used to get in trouble 59 �sometimes because my mouth would go. But I’ve always been an upfront person, Cha-Cha. I’m not going to stand there and say, “Oh, okay. Yeah, well...” That’s not the way I am. (laughs) JJ: So you were a doer and you had to do -- you didn’t want to go to meetings. CC: Yeah, that’s -- I want to do and I don’t want to sit in meetings and just BS and not get anything accomplished. Just sit there and listen to yourself [01:42:00] talk is not my way of doing things. It doesn’t get anything done. That’s the problem I had with the JOIN students, too, is they were, “Me, me, me,” sitting there talking about nothing. What they wanted to do, what they were -- I don’t want to hear that. Get out there and do it. Who cares what you want to do? Get out there and do it. Or talk about philosophies or there’s a word I can’t. (gestures vomiting) Boring. So (inaudible). (laughter) I’m sorry, I have -- JJ: No, but you did get to speak with Doc Satchel and -- CC: Yeah, I liked Doc Satchel because -- oh, and that was another thing. If Doc Satchel couldn’t make it, somebody wouldn’t come from the Black Panthers. Then they expected us to share but we had to give them their 100 dollars. No, I’m sorry. That’s [01:43:00] not right because it was only me and somebody from the Young Lords that was there speaking. The Panthers were suppose-- but they didn’t because Doc was busy or something. To me, that’s not -- JJ: (laughs) It ain’t right. CC: “Give us our speaking fee.” No, you didn’t speak. JJ: So you didn’t want to give them that. CC: No, we didn’t. We didn’t. 60 �JJ: Now, what did you think about Fred Hampton? CC: I only met him one time and I didn’t know him. Mark Clark, I met many times. JJ: Was there -- they killed them. Was there something like that happening with the Patriots, too? Were the police after the Patriots? CC: Oh, the police were after the Patriots. But they just killed people on the street. They didn’t go into their apartments and roll them away which is what that jerk did. JJ: But they did (inaudible) him. CC: Oh yeah. JJ: So they didn’t plant it or anything, they just killed him on the street. CC: No. they went -- they planted it. They went in -- those people were sleeping, Cha-Cha. [01:44:00] They went in there and they killed them in their beds. I didn’t know for a long time that Doc Satchel was one of the people that got shot. Somehow, he got away but he was there the night that they killed Fred Hampton and Mark Clark. They went into there. I want to say was it Burke or Ed -- what was his name? JJ: [Hanrahan?], Hanrahan. CC: Hanrahan, him. Oh, that guy, I got to tell you a funny story. Hanrahan. They planted it. They just went in there and went into that apartment and blew people away in their sleep! I was at a bingo -- okay, 25 years ago or so at this church. In the hall comes Hanrahan running around shaking people’s hand. [01:45:00] He got to me and I just sat there. I said, “I don’t want to shake your hand, jerk.” (laughs) 61 �JJ: How come you didn’t want to shake his hand? CC: Because he had killed Fred Hampton. (laughs) I mean, he was responsible and I knew about it and he was a jerk. He was a real jerk. Oh, Hanrahan, going around, shaking all the bingo ladies’ hands. I don’t know what he was running for -- from them. He should’ve been running for his life is what he should’ve been doing. JJ: (laughter) Yeah. He was running (crosstalk). CC: Hiding in a hole. Yeah. I forget what it was. JJ: (inaudible) So (inaudible) [Youngblood?]? So I know you said that they killed some people on the street. But was the police, did they do any questioning afterwards? Why did the Young Patriots break up? CC: Oh, why did they break up? They [01:46:00] didn’t break up. People just went their own ways -- kind of moved, kind of moved. Junebug went to California and Bobby moved to Kentucky. People, the original Young Patriots. Doug and I, we moved. JJ: Mm-hmm. So you moved this way or...? CC: No. I moved to Rogers Park and I got into working with drug addicts and alcoholics. Kit Komatsu and David Komatsu, they kept up the clinic. They moved it over on [Gray Street?] and they kept it up. But people just drifted away. Nothing, nothing -- JJ: What about a preacher man or (inaudible)? CC: Now, preacher man. That’s a totally different thing. I never cared for him, (inaudible) -- never cared for him. 62 �JJ: But wasn’t he -- I thought he was from the neighborhood. CC: No, he was from -- he was a seminary student or [01:47:00] something -- JJ: (inaudible) CC: -- that my mother-in-law, Peggy Terry, when we were in Resurrection City after they killed King when we set up that city in Washington, D.C., he was there and they talked to him. Then he came to Chicago and worked with the Patriots. However, he had his own agenda and he was kind of a megalomaniac, I guess. (laughs) Megalomaniac? Is that what that -- megalomaniac? Like ego maniac? JJ: (crosstalk) CC: Yeah. A megalomaniac, because I do crossword puzzles. It has something -- no, well, that’s where I learned that word is self-important. Very self-important. (inaudible) Like I said, I never cared for him and I -- JJ: He wasn’t from Uptown. I thought he was from -- CC: No, he was from [01:48:00] North Carolina or South Carolina and he came here. JJ: So was he like a hillbilly, too, or...? (crosstalk) CC: Yeah, he was a hillbilly. JJ: Okay. Is that a good term? I don’t know. I -- CC: Oh, there’s nothing wrong with that. It used to be -- now, when I was young and stuff, if you called somebody a hillbilly, that was like using the n-word to a southerner. But then in the ‘60s and stuff, it became -- people were proud to be hillbillies. We used to say, “There’s only two kinds of people in this world: hillbillies and the people who wish they were hillbillies.” (laughs) But no, Peggy 63 �and them, they never had a problem being called hillbillies. And they used to tell me they loved me anyway even if I was a Yankee. JJ: Oh, okay. CC: Yeah, because I wasn’t a hillbilly. They told -- JJ: [01:49:00] Did they call you Yankee or no? CC: No. JJ: You called yourself Yankee. CC: Everybody did. JJ: Why is there a difference? Yeah, what is that? CC: Why do you think? Because -- okay, Yankee, because of the Civil War, the North and the South. See, I’m a Yankee. I’m a Chicago girl. JJ: Oh, that’s right. That’s right. That’s right, you’re a Chicago girl. CC: They used to kid me and say I was hillbilly by injection but that’s not... (laughter) That’s dumb. Don’t put that. (laughter) No, that’s what Dougie used to tell me. (laughter) (inaudible) “You’re a hillbilly by injection.” JJ: What does that mean? Something (inaudible). CC: Yeah, right. But it -- my mother-in-law, Peggy, she would say, “We love you even if you are a damn Yankee.” (laughs) JJ: Okay. So there was a lot of pride in (crosstalk) CC: (inaudible) it’ll go -- yeah. It came -- it became -- JJ: It’s a culture. (crosstalk) CC: -- for me derogatory to a -- yeah. JJ: So it’s [01:50:00] like a different culture, right? 64 �CC: Yeah, yeah. JJ: Something like Puerto Rican, Mexican. CC: Right. Yeah. Hillbilly. Southern white. It’s usually meant southern white, not southern Blacks but southern white. Hillbilly. But actually I think in the dictionary, it says that a hillbilly is a Michigan farmer. JJ: Really? CC: It seems to me. Maybe not but it’s probably updated. I don’t care what you call me as long as you don’t call me late for dinner. That’s what I... (laughter) But what would be funny -- okay. Because I was married to Doug and Peggy was my mother-in-law, when we would go someplace, I forget where it was. I was applying for something and they put down, “You’re a southern white, right?” I said, “No, why?” Doug is, yeah, he’s my husband but I’m not a southern white. (laughs) [01:51:00] Or when they would categorize me and put me in a southern white and I’d say, “No, I’m not a southern white.” (laughs) I’m a damn Yankee. JJ: So right now, you’re not active? You’re kind of retired? CC: Oh yeah, I’m retired. (laughs) JJ: From that, yes. CC: Yeah, from that. I still put my two cents in and if I can help, you know what I’m saying? Like at work, I’ve had guards that would -- racist and stuff and I got them removed. (laughs) I’m not ashamed to say that and I really don’t mess with people’s jobs. But if you’re going to treat people like they’re garbage just because they’re not white or whatever, you’re gone. (laughs) I’m not putting up 65 �with that. I’ve [01:52:00] had people who needed help with alcohol or something and I would put them in contact with people so... JJ: You still (inaudible) CC: Yeah. JJ: (inaudible) Okay. One more time. Any other final thoughts? CC: No. That’s it; that’s it. JJ: Okay. You said you have your son or...? CC: Yeah, I have a son, Jason. He’s 45. Yeah. JJ: He doesn’t come around or...? CC: He lives here. JJ: Oh, he lives here. CC: He lives here with his girlfriend and her two-year-old son so that just happened recently that they moved in. Actually, it was the little boy that got to me. (crosstalk) I wasn’t so keen on having her because you can’t have two women in the house or even in the kitchen and all that. But that little boy just kind of got me so -- JJ: [01:53:00] (inaudible) CC: Yeah. I guess he -- he’s my grandson. He’s not my blood but he’s my -- I love him to death. I’m a pushover when it comes to babies and animals. JJ: What’s his name? CC: His name is [Nicholas?]. JJ: Nicholas. What’s her name? CC: Her name is [Nicole?]. 66 �JJ: Nicole. (inaudible) CC: Yeah. She’s a sweetheart. She really is a sweetheart. But puppies and babies or little kids. (laughs) I know I’m a pushover. (laughs) END OF VIDEO FILE 67 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ad57d098cadaabde488ffbc9dc2a4c19.mp4 bfbcdc7df1177b1eb05c79b83b40adae Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexicano-Americanos--Relatos personales Justicia social Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago Mexico-Americanos--Illinois--Chicago--Condiciones sociales Relaciones raciales Conflicto social Identitad cultural Partido Pantera Negra. Illinois Capí­tulo Título Spanish language Title entry Carol Blakely vídeo entrevista y biografía Descripción Spanish language Description entry La historia oral de Carol Blakely, entrevistado por Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez el 10/19/2012 acerca de los Young Lords en Lincoln Park. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Blakely_Carol Title A name given to the resource Carol (Coronado) Blakely video interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Blakely, Carol (Coronado) Description An account of the resource Oral history of Carol (Coronado) Blakely, interviewed by Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez, on 10/19/2012 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. In the video, an older white woman in a blue top speaks while looking towards the interviewer who is off camera. In the interview, Carol discusses growing up on the north side of Chicago, and her involvement as a young adult in the Young Patriots Organization, which organized a health clinic for underserved Chicago residents. She also discusses collaborating with members of the Young Lords and Black Panthers on community organizing. The transcript file includes a detailed biographical note about the subject. Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexican Americans--Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Mexican Americans--Illinois--Chicago--Social conditions Race relations Social conflict Cultural identity Black Panther Party. Illinois Chapter Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-10-19 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Young Lords collection (RHC-65) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jiménez, José "Cha-Cha" (interviewer) Audio Transcription Center (transcriber) Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s Civil Rights Movement Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3d07b52d698af00ff9002bdb4185acdc.jpg b8d6ef2d7ac5c1165d5bd612f584d112 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Valley State University Photographs Subject The topic of the resource Aerial photographs Universities and colleges Michigan Grand Rapids (Mich.) Allendale (Mich.) Building Facilities Dormitories Students Events 1960s 1970s 1980s 1990s 2000s Description An account of the resource People, places, and events of Grand Valley State University from its founding in 1960 as a 4-year college in western Michigan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource News & Information Services. University Communications Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">News &amp; Information Services. University Photographs. (GV012-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-03-03 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s-2000s Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Local Subject Subject headings specific to a particular image collection 1970s Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/41">University photographs, GV012-01</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-01_UAPhotos_000160 Title A name given to the resource Carol VanderMark using microscope in classroom Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Colorama Description An account of the resource Carol VanderMark using microscope in classroom. Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University Michigan Allendale (Mich.) Universities and colleges--Faculty Allendale (Mich.) Classrooms Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC-NC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright - Non-Commercial Use Permitted</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives black and white photo https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a50a296cde24b87aa2b4f955b7943600.jpg 009247445bd7bab3158bdefb3841e118 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Decorated Publishers' Bindings Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Description An account of the resource From the early 1870s to roughly 1930, many publishers issued their commercial book covers with a remarkable variety of graphic designs and illustrations. This sixty-year period saw many artists and designers contributing to this art form. While some can be identified from their style or initials, others remain unknown. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Seidman Rare Books Collection Michigan Novels Collection Regional Historical Collection Lincoln and the Civil War Collection Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-08-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>, <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Source Seidman Rare Books. PS1085.B63 C37 1906 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-01_Bindings0363 Title A name given to the resource Carolina Lee Description An account of the resource Binding of Carolina Lee, by Lilian Bell, published by L.C. Page and Company, 1906. Subject The topic of the resource Book covers Covers (Illustration) Graphic arts Publishers and publishing Pictorial bindings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1906 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c31ad5fc6bfd26ac47d5186ed98c4d7f.jpg ad4a854df889ed3eddb08df94276b5d1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Douglas R. Gilbert Photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R., 1942-2023 Description An account of the resource Photographs scanned from negatives and transparencies from the Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183). Douglas R. Gilbert (b. 1942) is an American photographer from Michigan. He was born in Holland, Michigan and is the son of Russell W. and Carmen (Andree) Gilbert. Gilbert earned a B.A. in social sciences and art at Michigan State University in 1964, an M.S. in photography from the Institute of Design at Illinois Institute of Technology in 1972, and a M.S.W. from Salem State College in 1993. He is married to Barbara (McDonald) Gilbert, and has three daughters, Robyn, Rachel, and Anne. Gilbert took a serious interest in photography at the age of fourteen. In 1963 he joined the staff of Look magazine in New York as the second youngest photojournalist in the magazine's history. As a Look photographer from 1964 to 1966, he photographed folk musician Bob Dylan, the Newport Folk Festival, Simon and Garfunkel, the New York City Financial District, the children and facilities at the Manhattan School for Seriously Disturbed Children. From 1967 to 1969, Gilbert did several shoots, including that of folk singer Janis Ian for Life magazine. After moving to Chicago, Illinois in 1969 to attend the Illinois Institute of Technology, Gilbert conducted notable photo shoots of business and political figure Lenore Romney, and pursued more personal and artistic photography, focusing on urban and rural landscapes in Illinois and Michigan. He then joined the faculty of Wheaton College, where he taught from 1972 to 1982. In 1993, Gilbert graduated from Salem State College, Massachusetts, with a Masters in Social Work, and later pursued a second career as a psychotherapist. Douglas Gilbert died in June 2023. Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960-2011 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="%E2%80%9Dhttps%3A//gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783%E2%80%9D">Douglas R. Gilbert Papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Subject The topic of the resource Photographs Photography -- United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Image Type The nature or genre of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-183_K184-0001 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Douglas R. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1970-08-05/1970-08-07 Title A name given to the resource Carousel, Kane County Fair, Illinois Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of a carousel at the Kane County Fair in Kane County, Illinois. In the photograph, the carousel is featured during an active evening at the fair, with a crowd of people gathered around while others walk past the fairgrounds. Scanned from the negative. Subject The topic of the resource Kane County (Ill.) Amusement rides--Illinois Carnivals--Illinois Fairs--Illinois Black-and-white photography Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/783">Douglas R. Gilbert papers (RHC-183)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1970s Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/df5543efb00b350b028cb8f85031a7ed.mp4 8ef631c264794ebcfc4be8840a3a57df https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f81a4c0326b48df32f52ab069d857108.pdf b985674a533d093d2bdc46da89646ecc PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW ED CARPENTER Born: Rockford, Michigan Resides: Jenison, Michigan Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, November 29, 2011 Interviewer: We’re talking today with Ed Carpenter of Jenison, Michigan. Mr. Carpenter, can you start out by telling us where and when you were born? I was born in Rockford, Michigan in 1921. Interviewer: What did your family do? Pardon? Interviewer: What did your father do for a living? He was a plumber. Interviewer: Did you live in Rockford and grow up there? No, I grew up around Grand Rapids. Interviewer: Did your father have regular work during the thirties, during the depression era? He was on the WPA for a while like everybody else, you know after the depression. Interviewer: Right—did you finish high school? Did I finish high school? Interviewer: Yes No Interviewer: How long did you stay in school? The eighth grade, actually. 1 �Interviewer: What did you do after the eighth grade? I was in the plumbing business with my father for quite a few years. !:00 Interviewer: How did you wind up in the military? Well, I was in a CC [Civilian Conservation Corps] Camp for two years, and right after that my friends all went into the service. Interviewer: Why were they going into the service? I suppose they went in there just to give them something to do. Interviewer: So, this was all before the war and started, or at least before the American war had started? Pardon? Interviewer: This was before Pearl Harbor then? This is before Pearl Harbor, right? Yeah, that was all before Pearl Harbor. Interviewer: At the time you signed up, did you think that we might get into a war, or that you might get into one? No, no, at that time we were allowed to pick where we wanted to serve, so I picked Hawaii, and that‟s how that started. 1:56 Interviewer: Where did they send you for basic training? Hawaii Interviewer: You went straight to Hawaii? Yeah, I left the United States and went to California. First I went to Fort Sheridan, Illinois and then I want to Angel Island, California, and I was quarantined there for two 2 �weeks, and got my shots, and all that stuff, and then we went on to Hawaii. I had my basic training in Hawaii. Interviewer: Where did they station you in Hawaii? Where? Interviewer: Yeah, where in Hawaii? Schofield Barracks Interviewer: On Oahu? That‟s right Interviewer: Can you describe the basic training process? What did you do? We went through everything there was to go through in the service. You had all the components they had to go through, you know, and it was quite a list. I‟ve got a list of them in my stuff in my room there. 2:57 You went through all your basic stuff, you know, your military maneuvers, your marching, and your gas stuff, you know, and all that stuff. Everything they did in the service, hand to hand combat, all of that. I took seventeen weeks of it, and then when we got to the manual of arms to graduate, I graduated and got we got our certificates, and was assigned to a company. Interviewer: Did you have any problems adjusting to army life? Was it easy to make the switch? None whatsoever, and being in the CC Camps helped a lot though. Interviewer: So, you learned to follow orders and take care of yourself? It was not a problem Interviewer: What kind of weapons did they train you on? 3:59 3 �Well, I was qualified with the 0-3 rifles, and 0-6, Grand 45 automatic, Thompson Sub Machine Gun, 37mm, 45mm, I mean 75mm. Interviewer: Now, were the 37mm and the 75mm, where those anti-tank guns or all-purpose guns? The 37mm was your anti-tank weapon. The 75mm was mounted on a tank, and that was with the Sherman tanks. I was a Platoon Sergeant in a Sherman Tank outfit. Interviewer: What Company did they assign you to, or what unit did they assign you to? We were with—I was with the 767th Tank Battalion, 19th Infantry Regiment, 24th Division, and we were assigned unattached to any outfit that needed us. 5:02 When we went to Leyte, I was with the 32nd, the 7th and a whole slew of them. Interviewer: All right, so basically your division served as sort of a reserve force in the Pacific Theater, and they would send parts of it where it needed to go, or was that mostly your tank battalion that was that kind of thing? We were with the 19th and wherever the 19th went, we went. Interviewer: When did you finish basic training? Pardon? Interviewer: Do you remember when you finished basic training? What time of year? Let‟s see—I got over there in July, and I think it was October. Interviewer: OK October, about three months, seventeen weeks 4 �Interviewer: What was it like living in Hawaii then, before the war started? Did you like it out there? Oh, it—I loved it out there. Yeah, that was a good place. It was native, a lot of it, you know. 6:00 Now it‟s all commercial. Interviewer: Right I was there when you couldn‟t drive all over the mountains, you had to walk, and we got to see a lot of stuff there. Interviewer: You saw that when you were out on marches? Yeah, training and stuff like that. Interviewer: What could you do for fun out there? Well, the only fun we had was—we had our own gym, you know, and a bowling alley, and a theater, and stuff like that, on the base, and the army PX‟s, you know, but after that it was Hawaii, going to Honolulu, and you were pretty well restricted on a lot of stuff too, you know. There were places in Honolulu that you could go to. I use to go to just outside Schofield Barracks a lot, and they use to have a drive-in up there that was real nice for GI‟s, for everybody really, but you could get a steak there for a dollar, and you couldn‟t eat the whole thing. 7:13 I‟ll tell you, it was nice though, and I don‟t have no complaints about Hawaii. Interviewer: All right, now, can you describe what happened, or what you experienced on December 7th, 1941? I was on KP for one thing, and I want outside to smoke a cigarette, so I went outside, and I heard this noise, banging, you know, bombs, and it was in Pearl Harbor, but we were thirty-six miles north of Pearl Harbor. Anyway, the planes started coming through and 5 �they started coming through over our outfit, and I was outside there, and this one Jap plane came in and he strafed me, but he missed me. 8:03 They strafed all the barracks and all the hospital was right behind us and they strafed that too. They dropped a bomb through our barracks, and it went right through my footlocker, and it never went off, it was a dud. I lost everything I owned, civilian stuff, everything. I had gabardine suits I had made, you know, tailor-made, I had all that stuff, and I didn‟t have anything left. Interviewer: If the bomb didn’t blow-up? It was a dud Interviewer: Did it still damage your stuff? Oh yeah Interviewer: Because A big bomb lands right on your footlocker. It went through the roof and right on down through. Interviewer: So, there was not much left anyway. Did you find a place to take cover when the—or did you just kind of watch them go through or--when the planes were coming over did you take cover somewhere? Well, I was looking up to see what the hell was going on first and I said, “they aren‟t our planes”, and I saw the yellow rising sun on them, you know, so I just hollered that they were not our planes, and by that time they got the word and the sirens went off, and everybody got ready to get together, you know. 9:19 We had to get our rifles and stuff, and everything was locked up, the ammunition was locked up, and we were going around like a bunch of chickens with our heads cut off. We got all organized and we got orders to go up in the mountains, and they said we were going to defend the island to the last man, so we went up in the mountains and dug in. I was up on a ridge, it‟s the highest 6 �point in Hawaii, and you could see the whole island, and our job was to notify whatever went on, but the Japs never landed. Interviewer: Nope It was a good thing too, because they would have wiped us out. Interviewer: We were not really ready for a war yet; so, how long did the attack itself last? How long were there planes over your base do you think? I would say it probably lasted over our area, maybe five or ten minutes. I don‟t know how long it lasted at Pearl Harbor, but it was quite a while because they—we had a few planes get up there though. 10:24 They had a couple of bases or airstrips here and there that they didn‟t know about, and we had a few of the guys get up and take out a few of the Jap planes, but they got taken out too. Interviewer: How long did you stay up in the hills after the attack? You said you were up there on lookout, how long did you stay up there? There you got me, I don‟t really know, I don‟t remember. Interviewer: Once things quieted down a little bit, did you get down to Pearl Harbor, so you could take a look at it? Oh yeah, we were on special assignments all the time and we had to go down and keep— we went down into Honolulu to get rid of the Japanese that were on the island, and we stopped everybody that was Japanese descent, and if they had any GI clothes on we stripped them right then and there. 11:31 Then they got picked up and sent to California or wherever. Interviewer: Actually a lot of the Japanese stayed in Hawaii, they didn’t intern the Japanese there. They probably interned some of them. 7 �You see the Japanese--the United States was so damn mad they picked up everybody they could get a hold of, and I guess that‟s why they paid them twenty thousand dollars apiece afterward. Interviewer: What was it like then just being based on Hawaii during 1942? What were you thinking was going to happen? We didn‟t know, we just couldn‟t really write home, and we didn‟t get any mail, and all we were doing was training all the time. 12:24 Organizing, and organizing, they would jump from— like I just got trained in 37mms, anti tank weapons, and then we got transferred into a tanks outfit. We had three different tanks we were training with them and we ended up with the Sherman‟s. That tank [the first one, the Stuart] was a real light tank, the old fashioned tanks, and then we went to a Grant, which had two guns on it, a 37mm and a 75mm, and then we went to the Sherman and that‟s the one we ended up with. Interviewer: Now do you remember when you got the Shermans? Was it still in 1942, or was it later than that? I remember alright, our company commander called us in, us sergeants in, and handed us a box full of pamphlets, you know, books, and it was on the Sherman Tank, and it had everything in it, all it‟s components and everything else. 13:30 We never had seen a Sherman Tank, we didn‟t even know what one looked like. Well we got them all in and everything was in Cosmoline, so we had to clean them all up, you know. Then we had to instruct our troops on the dumb things, so we had to pick out the men we wanted for drivers and so on and so forth, you know. We had a gunner, and a driver, and an assistant driver, and a loader, and two tank commanders. 8 �Interviewer: So you had a five-man crew? Yeah, so we got that all straightened out, we started training and we said we had three months to get ready, so in three months we were just like experts on it. We went together on it, and if you were a sergeant it didn‟t mean a damn thing, what it meant was, you were in charge, but the other guys there, they knew as much as you did, so we got together, we got our heads together and that‟s the way we operated. 14:31 We only pulled rank when we had to, but everybody did what they were supposed to do. Interviewer: How many tanks do you think you had in your battalion? How many tanks did your unit have? How many did we have? By company? Interviewer: No, how many tanks in your unit? There were five tanks in a platoon. Interviewer: And you had a full battalion? Yeah, we got three platoons in a company. Interviewer: Was there just one company or were there three companies? Three companies, A, B, and C Interviewer: So, in principle, forty-five tanks to start with? Right Interviewer: What did you think of the tanks, just as a machine to drive in, was it better or worse than a Grant or a Stuart, or anything like that? Just to be driving and trying to use. Did you like the Sherman better? Oh, I loved the Sherman Tank, yeah, but see, we didn‟t have any of those other ones that came out later like the Patton and all of them. 15:33 They were all in Europe. The 9 �tanks were limited in the South Pacific in what they could do, and it was the terrain. We had some rough terrain, man, I‟ll tell you; I don‟t know how we made it, and those mountains, I‟ll tell you—that was something else. Interviewer: In this period while you were training, were you following the news of the war? Were you paying attention to what was happening on in the Solomons, or New Guinea, or things like that? Were you keeping track of the war and wondering when you were going to go in? While I was in the service? Interviewer: You’re spending 1942 mostly in Hawaii, and you’re training in the tanks, and that kind of thing. In 1942 [1943?] we went to Kwajalein. 16:20 Interviewer: Tell us about that, how did they get you over to Kwajalein? By ship Interviewer: What kind of a ship were you on? LSD, landing ship dock Interviewer: So, how was that ship set-up? Loaded on a LCM, they loaded our tanks on an LCM, and they floated the LCM‟s out to the LSD, the LSD dropped her tailgate and they loaded it with five foot of water. We drove the LCM‟s in there. Interviewer: So, you’re actually taking the small landing craft, which holds one tank and a few men, and just sailing it into the stern of the ship? We got all these into the ship, they got them in there and pumped the water out and chained the LCM‟s down. Then we shut the gate up, the water was gone and away we 10 �went. We could go wherever we were going to go. 17:18 We got over to Kwajalein they dropped the tailgate, put the five foot of water in there and we floated out, rendezvoused, and got ready to hit the beach. When the shelling stopped we hit the beach. W e lost one tank in a shell hole, and it went in nose first, just like this, but we got the crew out. As far as I know it‟s still setting there. Anyway, it was an easy operation as far as we were concerned, because we wiped them out in nothing flat. It was just a small island, a couple miles long, and I forget how big it was. Interviewer: It didn’t have the kind of defenses on it that Tarawa did or some of these other places? No, it‟s a flatter island, it doesn‟t have mountains in it at all, and it‟s just a flat island. Interviewer: So is Tarawa, but they were better dug in there, but this was smaller still. 18:20 Tarawa was--the trouble was, the people don‟t know all of this either that, half of these islands that the Marines were supposed to have taken, they didn‟t actually take them, the army took them, but they never got the credit for anything because we didn‟t have the news media. Everything that went on was the marines, marines, and marines all the time. I don‟t have anything against them, they‟re nice guys and I had three buddies in the marines, in fact I went to Pendleton and I saw my buddy over there. It‟s just that—we had a guy that, on one of the island, a marine General, “Howlin Mad Smith”, they called him, and the marines and the army was over on Saipan, and the army took the center, the hills, so the marines took the flanks. 19:21 Well, the marines got around, and we got up there and we wiped them out. Here they are up there and they weren‟t even supposed to be there. We wiped them out damn near, you know. Well, “Howlin Mad Smith” 11 �complained about the army not doing their job, so Roosevelt fired “Howlin Mad Smith” from the Marine Corps, and replaced him, and that was never publicized. Interviewer: Let’s go back to the Kwajalein operation. The Kwajalein, was that just an army operation? Marines in the Marshall islands, there was Kwajalein, Eniwetok was one, was one and Majuro was one. Interviewer: But when you went into Kwajalein was that just the army or were there Marine? All army, another island had marines, but we had Eniwetok the next island over and that‟s where they tested all of their atomic stuff. 20:33 Interviewer: later on, and I think they tested some of that on Kwajalein too. Now ere you guys in the first wave at Kwajalein? Did they land the tanks first or did you come in after the infantry? No, I think we were in about the second wave. Interviewer: Did the Japanese on Kwajalein have anti tank guns or anything they could shoot at you? They had some small tanks, real light tanks. In fact, I never encountered any of them. The only ones I saw were when they were trying to repair them. Interviewer: Did you have targets to fire on there? Did your tanks do anything or did they just kind of drive up onto the beach? When you were on Kwajalein did you get in any actual fighting, or did the foot soldiers do that? Oh yeah, we had to knock out pillboxes and machine gun nests and snipers, and stuff like that, you know. 21:31 12 �Interviewer: How did you—were you able to communicate with the foot soldiers? How did you know what to shoot at? Did you just look around? In the back of the tank you have a telephone. We had this colonel come on our tank, my tank, and he wanted me to knock out this big cement abutment, and they had three hundred and fifty people in it, and they wouldn‟t come out. He wanted me to poke a hole in it, so they could put some satchel charges in there, and I thought to myself, “what the hell do you want to murder three hundred and fifty people for when all you have to do is sit here. They will have to come out or die right there”, so I poked a hole in it all right, but I don‟t know if they ever blew it up or not. 22:25 Interviewer: Did you have ordinary foot soldiers call you up on your phone on the back of your tank? Most of them were officers, or sergeants, somebody that was in command of an operation, you know. Interviewer: Once you guys took the island, how long did you stay there? Did they move you out again right away? We didn‟t stay there very long, just a few days. Interviewer: Did you go back to Hawaii from there? Back to Hawaii to retrain and regroup and get ready for Leyte Island. We were supposed to hit Truk Island, but they changed it. Interviewer: We only bombed that, but it didn’t get hit. Now, lets see Kwajalein— did you go anywhere in 1943? 43, 43, let me see 23:23 Interviewer: Well, Kwajalein might have been 1943, and not 42. 13 �Kwajalein was right after Guadalcanal Interviewer: Guadalcanal finished up pretty much in February of 1943, and Kwajalein was after that. We were in there before that because we went to Leyte in 1944. Interviewer: That’s in the fall of 1944 October 20th 1944 is when we landed. We landed in the first wave there, in fact the tanks landed before the infantry. I have a picture of my tanks lined up on the beach. Interviewer: All right, now when you landed there at Leyte, were you under fire at that point, or were the Japanese somewhere else? The Japanese had pulled back. Interviewer: Were they shooting artillery at you or just letting you come on? They didn‟t hit us until we got clear up past a little town around Leyte, and on the way to Tacloban, and we were on our way to Tacloban, when we started getting heavy fire. 24:29 Well then we moved to a Ormoc Bay, which was on the other side of the island, and we pushed the Japs off of there and we got there and we got word that the Japanese had fifty thousand troops coming in to reinforce them. Well, the air force went out, the Army Air Force, the Army Air Corps then, went in and knocked them out in the water, so that‟s what they told us. Interviewer: Well, there were still quite a few Japanese on that island. Now, when you were landing there did you have to take the tanks through jungle or was it more open country that you were in? I was in the jungles quite a bit. Interviewer: How do you take a tank through the jungle? 14 �We had a hell of a time there, because we were supposed to have infantry troops with us, you know, and we didn‟t have any. Here we were going through there by ourselves. I thought it was kind of stupid, you know. Interviewer: Dangerous 25:22 I don‟t know how anybody could stick up on the top, well one guy did get up on my tank, and my guy behind me, we were supposed to work in pairs to protect each other. So, a guy got on my tank, an officer, and he started chopping at my tank with a saber, you know a Samurai, so a guy on the radio tells me not to open my hatch because I got company. He said, “we‟ll take care of him”, and I heard bullets hitting my tank, and they got him with a machine gun. He fell in my air intake on my turret intake, so I had to get out of there and knock him off of there, so some of the stuff like that, they could have-Interviewer: Do you know how far away the infantry was? Do you know how far away the foot soldiers were at that point? Their soldiers? Interviewer: No, your soldiers, the infantry you were supposed have with you. They were behind us, but I don‟t know how far. Interviewer: Was there a trail in the jungle you were following, so you went single file or what? No we just followed by compass. 26:21 We had to pick our way because of the terrain. We weren‟t like a foot soldier, they go out through the swamps, but we couldn‟t do that. Interviewer: Now, did you get tanks stuck in the jungle? We got one, and it was mine. I came up on this flat plateau, and we couldn‟t see where we were going because it was all covered with brush. We started to torch it and all of a 15 �sudden the damn tracks started to spin. Well, I opened up the hatch and got out and I looked down and there I was, stuck. Well, then the damn mortars started coming in, and a mortar shell hit behind me, back of the tank and it blew me off the tank, and I got shrapnel in the back of my head and stuff, you know, but that didn‟t stop me. It wasn‟t that bad, so somebody came out of this area on this plateau and I shot this guy, and I asked the gunner for my Thompson sub-machine gun, and he gave me that. 27:38 I had fifty rounds in there and I got seven more, and then I had my man on the other tank come up and help me get out. So, I could pull myself out, you know, and we got out of there. then a Jap tank came up the side of the ridge, just beyond it, and my gunner said, “enemy tank ahead”, and I said, “Are you sure it‟s the enemy?” I give the orders what to shoot, and he shot and hit it the first thing and blew it all to smithereens, because they were light tanks. 28:21 Interviewer: Yeah, the Japanese didn’t have very good tanks at all. They didn‟t have very good equipment, tanks, they just had manpower. We would kill ten of them to our one every damn time. I don‟t know how they kept getting all these men. Interviewer: Eventually they ran out I‟ll tell you, there was another bad one too because of the terrain, and we got the unit citation over there too while I was there from President Marcos, and we got one from our country. Interviewer: Marcus was the president during the 60’s and 70’s, so Quezon was president then. Marcos was a guerilla, that‟s when I met him he was a guerilla. 16 �Interviewer: What Island was he on? Was he on Leyte? He was on Leyte, and his wife was from Leyte. I met a platoon of Philippine Guerillas, and I was around Leyte, it was a Sunday, we had things pretty well under control, so we were just out walking around, monkeying around, and we see this platoon come in this town. Well, they give their order, halt the platoon, left face, she gave another order, and they had bags on their shoulders, burlap bags, so they picked the bags up and threw them like that, well, I thought they were bowling balls or coconuts, but they were Japanese heads. They had gone out and beheaded the Japanese, and this platoon leader was a girl. 30:22 I was told that the government paid the guerilla, or they paid the guerillas, twenty dollars a head for the Japanese, and whether that‟s true or not, I don‟t know. Interviewer: But it’s still kind of a striking sight, and not something you would have expected. I don‟t know if the government would do that, but you know-Interviewer: It’s hard to tell. Now, did you see much of the native population there on Leyte? Oh yeah Interviewer: How did they get along with the Americans? Good, and we were well treated there. Interviewer: Aside from these guerillas, were there other Filipino soldiers? Were there other units that served with you? No, just the guerillas Interviewer: Just the guerillas at that point. We just ran into the guerillas, we didn‟t run into any troops. 17 �Interviewer: Now, did you—after that first action you had at Ormoc Bay, did your unit go further into the jungle and continue fighting, or did you move out? 31:26 When we got to Ormoc Bay we stopped right there, that was the end of the island, and we had the island taken then. Then we went on over to Mindanao, the next island. Interviewer: What happened there? Well, that‟s where we ran into a lot of trouble, over there. Interviewer: That was the Villa Verde Trail and that kind of thing? There were more troops on there and stuff. Interviewer: Do you know about when that was? Was it in early 1945 at that point? Let‟s see, October Interviewer: October is Leyte November, December—see, I left there in January and went to New Guinea in January, to I Corps, and then I went to the United States and I was assigned to Fort Ord, California as a drill sergeant. 32:27 I was there for about two or three months, and I got orders to go back to the South Pacific. I had an appendicitis attack, and they operated on me, and while I was in the hospital I got my orders rescinded and they set me up for a reenlist. I was up for a commission in the field, you know, in the South Pacific, but I wouldn‟t take it because they wouldn‟t let me come back to my outfit. They wouldn‟t reassign me to my outfit, and I told them that if I couldn‟t come back there as a Lieutenant, I don‟t want to come back. I said, “I‟m here as a Platoon Sergeant, why not a Lieutenant?” He said, “there‟s a difference”, and I could see there was too. 33:25 Once you get those bars on you, their attitude toward you changes. 18 �Interviewer: You had mentioned earlier that you were once on Peleliu? You were also on Peleliu, right? Well yeah, on the island, yeah, and the 38th was over there too. Interviewer: That’s another regiment from your division? Yeah Interviewer: Can you tell us about that? What sis you do there? What did you see there? I didn‟t do anything there myself. I went over there to visit, see I hitch hiked from Leyte to Peleliu. I went to the airstrip and saw his plane, and I asked this captain if anybody was going to Peleliu, and he said, “yes, but I can‟t take anybody, it‟s against regulations”. I knew that, I was AWOL, see, so I got—he said, “that‟s my plane over there”, so I got on the plane, and we went over to Peleliu. 34:34 I went over there and I asked some guys about the 1st Marine division, and this guy I knew, and they showed. Me where it was, and I went over there and saw him. He started crying and said, “I wondered when the hell you guys were going to get here”, and raw, raw, raw, you know, and I said, “Well, we‟re just over here to visit, we got Leyte taken care of so”. Interviewer: Was the fighting still going on then? Were they still fighting on Peleliu at that point? Sporadically, you know, mop up stuff, there‟s always that. Hell, they had a guy on the Admiralty Islands; the Japanese were there twenty-seven years after the war. They didn‟t even know the war was over yet, and they finally got him. 35:27 Interviewer: Did you also go to the Admiralties? 19 �I went there as, not as a fighting unit, we went there as a staging, getting ready to hit Leyte. We were supposed to go to the Truk Islands, see, but they stopped that. Truk Island was the highest fortified island in the Pacific, and it was a big naval base, but they bypassed it and hit Leyte instead, which is a good thing. Interviewer: A lot of those Japanese bases, once we knocked out the airstrips and got air superiority, it didn’t do them any good. They couldn’t do anything with Truk at that point. You know, just like Okinawa that was one son of a gun over there that was something else. Interviewer: You didn’t go to Okinawa? You didn’t have to go to Okinawa yourself though? No, I didn‟t fight there, but my outfit did. The report I got back—when they were taking that island the suicide rate over there for natives alone was astronomical. 36:34 They had suicide cliff there, you know. Interviewer: They had one of those at Saipan too. Oh man Interviewer: Now, when you took that trip over to Peleliu, what happened to you when you got back? Not a thing, they never even knew I was gone. Interviewer: They never knew you were gone, ok. I cheated, the idea was he had to go over there and come right back, so I probably didn‟t visit over an hour, and I was right back on the plane. That wasn‟t the first time. I went out on a damn sub patrol with him on B-24‟s. Went to the airstrip, asked the captain if I 20 �could take a ride, and he said, “Yeah, we‟re going on a patrol”, so he let me in there, an that was the most monotonous ride I ever had. Three feet above the water and here you are going just so many degrees this way and so many degrees that way, and back, and that was it. 37:29 Interviewer: How long were you out? I don‟t remember, a couple of hours, maybe three hours. They never knew I was gone there either. Interviewer: Did you have any other adventures like that? Did you sneak out anywhere else? No, there was only one other thing that happened that I could never figure out, and I haven‟t done it to this day. I was out there training my men on tank tactics, and this captain came up to me, and he wanted to talk to me, so he took me aside and he said, “How would you like to do something for your country?” I said, „Well, I‟m doing about all I can do, as far as I know”, and he said, “well, I got something I want you to do”. 38:21 “What‟s that?” Well, there‟s talk about this Lieutenant Nakamura, a Japanese officer, and he was in the United States and went through college, and went back to Japan to visit his folks. He got back to Japan; they grabbed his ass, and put him in the Japanese Army. He had two sisters on Hilo, on the big island., so they wanted me to go over there, get acquainted with those two sisters, and find out where he was, because they lost track of him. So here I am—and these women were barbers, and they only had women barbers over there, so I went to the barbershop, got a haircut, shave, shampoo, all this crap, and I got acquainted with them, you know. I got a picture of her here someplace. 39:22 I said, “Do you mind if I walk you home/” “me like, me like”, and I said, “alright‟, so we 21 �went down by the park, you know, and they had bomb shelters in the park, and we went around them, and we walked around. You see all the ships going by, so she was asking me about these ship, which ones was—I said, “I don‟t know anything about ships, I‟m not in the navy, and I don‟t know about ships”. I knew what some of them were, because some of them were heavy leaded and sunk in the water, and about ready to sink. Anyway, I got acquainted with her, and one night I took her home. She lived above a store, and the store was not operating anymore, and everything was blackout, you couldn‟t have any lights at night, you know, and to get upstairs we had to go to the back, the back of the store. 40:22 There was an outside stairway, and we get up there and she takes my shoes of, because that‟s there custom, and I bend down, I was going to do something with my shoes, and they had a window in the back door and I could see straight through the house. The moonshine was shining through the front window, and I see a shadow go by, so I asked her if she had anybody living there with her, “no”, and if she was all alone? “Yeah”, well, I had my 45 stuck in my shirt, and I wasn‟t supposed to have my 45 with me, I was supposed to go unarmed, see. Well, I pulled it out and I loaded it, and I let go right through the front of the house, and all of a sudden all the damn area lit up like a Christmas tree. These damn big spotlights, and the MP‟s came in there and surrounded the house, dragged my ass, took me back down to the airstrip, they had my bags already on the airplane, and they threw my ass on the airplane and back to Honolulu I went. 41:41 Back to my base, so I get back there, and I get into my bunk, I had my bunk and my own private room, and there‟s a letter on my bunk, so I opened it up and there‟s a picture of this Lieutenant Nakamura and three other guys, but it was from California at the concentration camp they had there. They had done something to them 22 �for inciting a riot or something. So, to this day I don‟t know what in the hell I was doing over there when they had him in California. Here I am looking for him in Hawaii, and what in the hell am I doing over there in the first place? They had me doing something that I didn‟t know anything about, and I didn‟t have nobody to contact, but this captain. Later on I go and check and there‟s not even a captain by that name in our damn outfit. 42.44 Interviewer: Did anything else happen to you? So, I get a hold of my company commander, he‟s still alive down in South Carolina, I get a hold of him and I said, “Captain, do you remember me, when was gone for ten days playing around in Hawaii, to Hilo?” “No”, and I said, “You‟re the company commander and you didn‟t know I was gone for ten days?” “No”, well, somebody‟s full of bull, you know, and to this day I don‟t know. It drives me nuts trying to figure out why they sent me over there to start with. It had to be something I was doing that I didn‟t know about, but I didn‟t have a contact and that‟s what got me too. If I‟d of got caught, I would have been—shit. Interviewer: As it was, they caught you after you fired the gun, right? Didn’t they just pack you back off to— What? Interviewer: Didn’t they catch you after you fired the gun? No, they didn‟t do anything Interviewer: The lights came on, but nobody came into the building or anything like that? 43:47 No 23 �Interviewer: Ok I didn‟t hear a damn thing about it afterwards, nothing, and I don‟t even know what the hell went on. It happened so damn fast that it—he told me—I had to destroy that letter right away, that picture and everything. I had to destroy it right away, after I read it, and I wish that I‟d kept it, but I didn‟t. I was following orders, you know. Interviewer: Right, but the fact is, they didn’t notice you were gone, they didn’t punish you, they decided they didn’t notice you were gone so— Right, I had a nephew that was in the navy, a jet pilot, and I had this nephew, my nieces husband, he‟s in the marines, and these other two buddies of mine are marines, and a couple other buddies in the army, one got killed, accidental, put a damn machine gun up on the back of a truck while it was loaded yet, and it went off. 44:49 Somebody got his ass in a sling over that I‟ll bet ya. They had no clearing blocks in there, you know. I had another thing happen too that I got away with, in a way. We were loading on Hawaii there to go to Leyte, the Philippines, and a marine came up with a Jeep, he came up to the supply house, he got out of the Jeep, left it running, and he went inside. So, I told a couple of my men, I said, “grab that damn Jeep and bring it over here”, so they drove the Jeep over by the dock, and I had the crane operator load it on our ship. 45:40 They loaded it on our ship, and I told my buddy, he was in the maintenance department there, ordinance, I said, “put our colors on that and put our insignias on that”, and he said, “Where did you get that?” I said, “never mind, get that thing painted up”. We did see the major come out of the building, and mad, he was so damn mad, he was looking all over that place—he didn‟t know what the hell happened. I seen guys pointing here and there 24 �and he was looking here and there, and we got that damn thing clear over to the Philippines. I got a hold of another—a 1939 Cadillac. Interviewer: Where was that? A black one, and this was on Leyte, right near Tacloban, and it was full of bullet holes, so we yanked it out of there with a tank, took it back and had them fix it all up, and we were going to use that as our car to go play around in. 46:42 Well shit, the MP‟s come along and they confiscated that too. Every vehicle we could find—we‟d pull it out of a ditch or take it out of a swamp, pull it out and take it back to our outfit, get it all cleaned up, fixed up, and we were going to use them, and they would take them away from us every time. Interviewer: Did you have the same crew with you the whole time? The guys in your tank, did they stay the same people? Yeah, and one thing about the war, I never lost a man in the war. One guy got his leg cut off, and that was due to an accident. We fell off a cliff, and I got the guys out, and his leg was cut off by the gun. It came down and it was in a traveling lock position, well the rod broke and it came down and hit his knee and cut it off. We got him out of there, but we had to send a rope basket down to get him up because it was a hundred feet down. 47:43 Interviewer: Now, did the tank go off the cliff? Yeah, it fell right off. Interviewer: It fell a hundred feet down? Yeah, it lit right side up too. Smashed all the bogie wheels on it too, the tracks and all that stuff—it‟s a wonder it didn‟t kill us all. That‟s where I was supposed to have got the Bronze Star, for getting them guys out. I don‟t give a shit about no Bronze Star, I got them out, that‟s necessary. 25 �Interviewer: Did you keep in touch with any of those guys from your crew after the war? I had one guy, two guys, but they weren‟t in my outfit. They were to start with, but I got rid of them because they both were a bunch of duds, you know. One of them ended up as a Master Sergeant in the air force in computers, and here he couldn‟t make PFC in our outfit, and in the air force he made Master Sergeant, and he did a good job. 48:42 The other guy, he‟s over in Annapolis, and I don‟t know about him. Everything was about him, him, him, you know. He had 8x10 pictures made of everything he did, and he was patting himself on the back all the time. He called himself “Sergeant”, and hell, he wasn‟t a sergeant, you know. I had a whole damn bunch of pictures I sent to him, and he wanted copies of them, so I sent him the pictures, and I told him to send them back. He sent them back, but he didn‟t put my name on them. He put the address, but he didn‟t put my name, and the damn post office wouldn‟t deliver them, so I called Washington, where he mailed them from, and they wouldn‟t do a damn thing about it. I never did get them pictures. I never got them, and they were in a box about like a check box. 49:50 They had pictures of it with the address, but they didn‟t have the name. Why in the hell couldn‟t they deliver them? Interviewer: I don’t know, they send things to occupant all the time. Shit, all they had to do was mail them to the damn address. I called everybody I could call. I called the postmaster over there, I got a hold of him too, and I told him I wanted them pictures. I lost enough shit during the war like that. Coming back home I got to San Francisco, I had my Samurai sword, I had my 45, a bunch of pictures, which were not supposed to have been taken, I took them through the turret of the tank, hand to hand 26 �combat stuff, and this major sat there, he had a 45 setting on the table right beside him. When we got off the ship we had to unload our duffle bags, so he could see what was in them. 50:53 He said, “ok, we‟ll tag this one and ship it to you, we‟ll tag that and ship it to you”. They wanted to check for cigarettes because you could get cigarettes for five cents a carton, I guess it was five cents a carton or something like that. Anyway, you were only allowed one carton, and it went on like that and I never got that stuff, none of it. I got a book in there that Colliers magazine put out years ago and my pictures are in there, but how in the hell could I prove that they‟re mine, I can‟t. I know they‟re mine, and I didn‟t have them developed, see, I had the picture, but I didn‟t have them developed yet. Well, they must have developed them. Interviewer: You had people in some of these supply services and things like that, that were pretty good at making things disappear. 51:50 The major, he was the one that made money off of that stuff. Interviewer: Entirely possible, either that or he handed it off to somebody else and somebody else sells it off. I didn‟t have a damn leg to stand on because he‟s a major and I‟m a sergeant. How the hell am I going to tell him what to do? Interviewer: Yup, and even if you did there wouldn’t be any way to show that it was he that did it rather than somebody else. That’s too bad. That sword was worth a lot of money because it belonged to a general too. Interviewer: How did you get it? How did I get it? From a general after he was killed. Interviewer: How did that come about? 27 �Well, we went—we were on this island and I don‟t remember if it was Leyte or where it was now, but anyway, there was a battle and all the Japs were dead. We got outside and made sure they were all dead, checked them out, you know. Well, I saw the sword there and I took the sword and put it in the tank and stuff. 52:57 I had a Hari-Kari [hara kiri] knife too that they used to commit suicide with. Interviewer: How could you tell he was a general? Well, he had—the generals had—all the big shots had the samurai swords with all jeweled handles, and this was jewel handled. They had a certain handle they used for each general. The higher the rank, the bigger the jewels, or the good ones, or whatever you want to call them. Then he had his uniform, and of course I didn‟t know what the hell his rank was at first because I didn‟t know their ranks, but somebody else told me that was a general, so I assumed it was a general. 53:47 The sword, the samurai, coincided with everything else. Interviewer: Now, when it’s all over, you get out, come back to Michigan, was that—did you come back to Michigan after you were out of the service, or did you go somewhere else? When I got out of the service I came back to Grand Rapids. I went from San Francisco to Fort Sheridan, Illinois. I was sent home for a delay in route for R&R in Florida, and I came home first, I stayed home for twenty days, that‟s all I got, and I got married while I was home, on March 31st, and my wife, I was going with her when I went in the service. I was sent on R&R to Florida, and I didn‟t know I could take my wife with me, so didn‟t. 55:06 I get over there, and I could have taken her for a dollar a day. Well, they didn‟t tell me until it was time for me to go back home. Then I got orders to go to Fort Ord in 28 �California, so what did I do? I got a hold of this officer in charge, and asked for a delay in route, and he asked my why, and I said, “I want to buy a farm when I get—on the way home, so he said, “Ok”, and they gave me a ten day delay in route. I got the orders to go out to California, you know—well, I had the orders already, and my wife wanted to go with me out there, and I said, “no, I‟m not going to take you down there, because I don‟t know what the hell‟s going on when I get there”. 55:52 “Where are you going to live? I don‟t have a place for you to live or anything else”, so I didn‟t. Well, if I would have told them about it ahead of time they could have had that set up, but they don‟t tell you anything, you know, so anyway, I got back down there, and my wife had been in California, and she worked as a telephone operator in California near Fort Ord. Her cousin was stationed at Fort Ord, and she went down there to see her husband and my wife went with her and she got a job. I could have gone down there, and she knew more about Fort Ord than I did really, so she never got to go there either, but it worked out alright I guess. 56:45 Interviewer: Did you buy your farm? No, I didn‟t intend to buy a farm. Interviewer: That was just a good story? I just told them that. Interviewer: Did you go back into the plumbing business, or did you do something else? No, I got home and started in the plumbing business, but you couldn‟t by soil pipe, you couldn‟t buy anything hardly at all, so I went to work for, I think it was General Motors Plant 1 for a while, and then from there I went to Kelvinator, Blackmere Pump, 29 �Production Die Cast, and I couldn‟t handle there jackass foremen and stuff in these plants. I had it out with every one of them except General Motors. 57:43 In 1952 I started back in plumbing with my dad and my brother, and that thing fizzled out, so I went back to General Motors, and I spent thirty and a half years there, and I stayed in the plumbing business too. I did a lot of plumbing on my own then, and I did a lot of houses in Grand Rapids, and all over really. Interviewer: I believe it, and when you look back on the whole thing now, how do you think your time in the service affected you? Do you think your time in the army made you different from what you were before, made you grow up at all? Oh yeah, I went from a snot nosed eighteen year old to a seventy-five year old man in five years. 58:40 Here I am trying to lead a bunch of kids and I‟m only a kid myself. We were all about the same age, a couple were a little older, but we were all about the same age. Interviewer: In the South Pacific it was kind of hard to be much older. They didn’t want a lot of older guys out in the jungle and that kind of thing. They didn’t think they could take it. The younger guys were fodder. Interviewer: It was that too They were the only ones that could take it, and when you go through that damn basic training—I‟ll tell you that aint nothing fun, and I don‟t know if you ever did it or not. Interviewer: Certainly not 30 �Man, that‟s something else, and they really pour it on too. You don‟t have one sergeant on your ass at a time, you got two or three of them, and you have them all hollering at you at once. 59:51 Interviewer: Now when you were a drill sergeant, did you do that too? Yeah, I had to do the same thing, just about. I had one sergeant that I chased across the drill field with a bayonet. We were doing a manual of arms, getting ready for graduation, I missed on a count and he said, “you ---eating son of a bitch”, that‟s just what he said, and I said, “nobody calls me a son of a bitch and gets away with it”, and I pulled down on him with my bayonet, and that‟s when we had all chrome plated bayonet‟s yet. I was chasing his ass across the 800 yard drill field, and I damn near caught up with him when this lieutenant came up, Lieutenant Yearman was his name, he came up in his Jeep and the driver pulled in between me and the sergeant, and the sergeant jumped in the Jeep and they took off. Here I am standing out in the middle of the field by myself. The next thing I knew, here came some damn MP‟s, and they grab my hind end and take me back to the regiment. So, I get back to the regiment and I had to go up to the colonel, Colonel Sullivan. 1:10 Interviewer: So, you were on the drill field here in Hawaii, chasing after the sergeant, the Lieutenant saved him, the MP’s came and took you, and then what happened? I went before the colonel, Colonel Sullivan was his name, and he asked me what happened, and I told him. I stood at attention for an hour from him and he was chewing me up one side and down the other, you know. He asked me what happened and I told him, and he called the sergeant and he busted him down to a private. He got his rank 31 �back in thirty days, but anyway, Sergeant White was his name, and I‟ll never forget it, but I never got anything out of it, and I graduated and everything else. Interviewer: Are there other things that stick in your mind or that you remember, whether it was in Hawaii or the islands? 2:10 A couple other things, when I was on guard duty one night, we got in this here, it was like a mine in the side of a mountain. It was all built out of concrete, and it was all lighted up and everything else. I couldn‟t tell you where the hell it was at, it was on Oahu, but I don‟t know where, up in the hill, in the mountains. I was on guard duty there, and it was where the Hawaiian headquarter was going to be moved in case the Japanese landed, and it was a top-secret place. I was always wondering if that was still there or not, if they let people know if it‟s still there or not. Interviewer: Do you think it was pretty close to Honolulu, was it pretty far away? It was up near Schofield Barracks, near there. 3:10 See you take—from one side of the island to the other, you go to Kaneohe Naval Base and you‟re 2000 and some odd feet above, up on the palley there looking down on Kaneohe naval Base, so from one side of the island to the other there‟s a difference and a lot mileage, you know, and they could have been building that stuff anywhere. It was a beautiful island until the damn white man got over there and screwed it all up. Kaiser, Kaiser Aluminum, he‟s the one that started it on Waikiki beach, them high-rises—I use to go to Hawaii and stay there on Waikiki beach. 4:09 I met a girl there and her dad owned, I don‟t know what it was, it was a big mansion or something, but he opened it up for the GI‟s, and I met her, and I don‟t even know what her name was. When they built that high-rise at Waikiki it blocked him off from even seeing the beach, and they fought about it, but it didn‟t do any 32 �good. Now look at it, and there was only one hotel on that island and that was the Royal Hawaiian, an all pink one, and it was the only one that was there, and now look at the damn thing. 4:56 Interviewer: People can’t afford to live there. There seems to be somebody is living there. 33 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Carpenter, Edson (Interview transcript and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Carpenter, Edson Description An account of the resource Edson Carpenter is a World War II veteran who served in the U.S. Army with the 767th Tank Battalion 19th Inf. Division from 1941 to 1945. In this account, Carpenter discusses his pre-enlistment, enlistment and training in the U.S and the Pacific, and his combat experiences across the Pacific. Carpenter also mentions aspects of the war not generally talked about such as the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, the fighting on Leyte, and other island assaults he took part in. Carpenter concludes by discussing his life after the war and what he learned from his military experiences. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-05-13 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context CarpenterE Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/53e4fb34d49dafeefd98e46e3501da3b.mp4 48f379f1067f898b003c1080fc4ca712 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4db48c0bd2d91e16ab2605db965299ba.pdf c4923ec27b11981c60bbcfcea893a811 PDF Text Text GrandValleyStateUniversity Veteran’s History Project WWII/Post-WWII/Korean Conflict James Carr Interview Total Time: Background  (00:14) Born in ChicagoIllinois, in 1927 o Stayed here through high school then moved to Park Ridge o Mentioned that they lived in a Norwegian ghetto o Got Norwegian newspaper o Went to high school in Park Ridge also  (00:50) Father was a civil engineer o Never lost a job through the Depression o Family members lived with them who had suffered during this time  (1:30) Father tried to get in the Marines during World War I as an artillery observer because of his technical background o They didn’t take him because his blood pressure was high from excitement  (2:02) Had two brothers; one was killed when Mr. Carr was an infant  (2:40) All of his male cousins served in World War II, uncles in World War I  (3:20) Remembers during childhood when his younger brother wanted to see an army jeep o Drove through Ft. Sheridan o Gates were closed when they tried to leave, they got let out o Went to a nearby relatives house who seemed concerned about a recent event o Found out that Pearl Harbor attack had occurred  (4:36) Mr. Carr’s first choice was to join the Naval Academy and take flight training o Navy wanted him to have a degree before joining o Joined the Civil Air Patrol as a teenager  (7:20) Mr. Carr enlisted instead of waiting to get drafted o Took a skill test that had to do with electronics o This made him eligible to go into the Navy as a first class seaman o He was 17 at the time, as well as his other friends o They had to wait until graduation o After graduation, the war in Europe was over  (8:30) Got to boot camp in early September of 1945 �Training  (9:00) Said that when they arrived to boot camp, “you were a nobody” o Had to learn many new things  (9:40) They had companies within the boot camp, about 100 of them in the company  (10:16) They had weapons training, but different than the Marines o They still used 1908 Springfield rifles o Firefighting aboard ship  (11:30) At the time, the Navy was still segregated o This was strange to him, because it was very different in Chicago  (12:35) He said the most challenging part of training was identifying aircrafts and ships o They only flashed on the screen for barely a second  (13:07) Boot camp was 10-11 weeks  (13:16) The electronics program was cancelled because the war was over  (13:16) Mr. Carr was given the opportunity to learn how to become a dispersing clerk o To handle Navy payroll o Once they graduated, they learned they could be discharged once everyone else was discharged  (13:56) There was a 3 week program to learn how to do this Navy Career  (14:15) Sent to Great Lakes Campus o Then assigned a discharge unit  (14:15) As a dispersing clerk, he looked at their payroll record  (14:50) A case Mr. Carr will never forget o One man was a chief petty officer; many ribbons o All the ribbons were red; which meant that he didn’t get top conduct awards o Address was the same as in 1908; had been serving for 40 years  (16:33) Says that they didn’t get paid a lot, so there wasn’t really any disputes about how much a person was paid  (17:10) There was a guy whose payroll didn’t keep up with him; had been in different combat situations  (17:34) Mr. Carr did this work for 9 months  (27:37) Afterward, he went to school at MichiganStateUniversity  (27:53) During his time as a dispersing clerk, he stayed at Great Lakes o Mentions that the base was more of a training center and a transition center o Hangers were converted to barracks; 1300 guys to each room �        (19:06) They had 8 hour shifts o They got liberty passes; got to go anytime as long as they reported when they got back o Talked about the nice houses near the area (20:22) Got days off sometimes o 8 hours on and off, and then 56 hours off o Then they were changed back to the regular schedule o Went downtown, got to go see movies and plays, etc. (24:13) Enlisted in the Navy Reserves o Inactive reserves o Joined an organization at school, 45 hours a month, and joined another one later (25:09) Because Mr. Carr could type, he could work any hours he wanted o Did this in between classes (26:10) One of his assignments was with Navy Intelligence in downtown Chicago o Didn’t know what they were looking for, but knew that there were many people with aliases (28:44) Mr. Carr had graduated by the time the Korean conflict had started o His enlistment was going to expire in August after he graduated in June o On June 25th, North Koreans invaded South Korea o About a month later the president extended all of their enlistments by a year o In August, he got word to report to active duty on September 7th o Had a wedding planned on September 9th, so they got married on August 23rd instead (31:35) Reported to the NavalReserveCenter and then went to Pere Marquette Railroad Station in Lansing o Went to Ft.Wayne, in Detroit o Then got on a train to Great Lakes Naval Academy o Went there for processing over a weekend o Wives came to visit them, and they got liberty o Took a train for 3 days to California  Said the ride was beautiful (35:16) Arrived at Port Hueneme in OxnardCalifornia o Assigned to a battalion that hadn’t been formed yet o Waiting until others arrived so they could be a 1000 man battalion o Had to build their own housing o Got to participate in the commissioning of the assignment of officer o Mr. Carr was color guard �            o Didn’t ship out until the first week of January (37:56) 60-70% of the guys in the unit were WWII vets or of that age o The rest were those who had joined in the reserve units (39:12) Went to a recruit training center in San Diego o Stayed at the place the SEALs trained o Spent an hour learning how to use each weapon o Learned a lot about being a good soldier; more than the Navy boot camp o Did this for two weeks before going back to Hueneme o Got leave shortly after, explored Northwest United States with wife (41:15) Shipped up to the Aleutian Islands o This was a secret project; not told that they were going there o It was a secret project for the Atomic Energy Commission o They were to do underground nuclear testing in basalt rock o They were in Amchitka o This was an area that hadn’t been occupied by 1,000 people since World War II o Two dozen of their people were flown up there, then 100 of them left on an attack cargo ship (44:42) Mr. Carr describes Amchitka as the “Florida” of the Aleutian chain o It snowed, but there was no frost o Remembers solid fog (46:55) Says the island as pretty much abandoned (47:13) Their first job when they arrived was to convert warehouses to barracks (48:25) The coldest it got there at night was 28 degrees o Snow never lasted more than a couple of hours (49:17) Eventually, the whole battalion joined them o They brought over the flu (50:44) Mr. Carr said they had a regular galley o Big meal was at noon, but they were working at that time (52:13) Decided to keep a diary because he could not write home about their work, since it was a secret project (53:37) Had 3 survey crews working, they laid out the ground zero line o Out from about 3 miles o Had to be witnessed, etc. o Whatever they put down was going to be destroyed, but they had to put it back (55:14) The biggest challenge of his job was the weather o Wind never stopped; caused equipment to vibrate o The Aleutian islands were all tundra – made a “mattress” �         (56:40) His team consisted of about 5-6 guys o He really liked these people o They came from all over the US (58:00) Also had to report tide gages (58:28) When they were off duty, they hiked and explored the island o Describes various moments in nature and wildlife that he experienced o They got to watch movies often (1:00:00) Stayed on Amchitka from January until June o Many decisions and work was based on the weather (1:04:42) Mr. Carr’s wife was in Lansing while he was in Amchitka (1:08:37) He said on the island, the morale would go up and down; depended on the weather a lot of the time. (1:10:40) His enlistment was extended by a year; different than World War II o Discharged in August (1:12:00) They came home in a victory ship o 6-7 days crossing the Pacific (1:15:00) Says his time in the military helped him have a great respect for those that do it now � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27_CarrJ1296V Title A name given to the resource Carr, James (Interview outline and video), 2011 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-11-10 Description An account of the resource James Carr grew up in Chicago and joined the Navy in 1945 at age 17 as a first class seaman. He received raining at Great Lakes Naval Station, and worked there as a dispersing clerk handling payroll for sailors being discharged after World War II. He then went to college and served in the reserves. He was called up when the Korean War started and was sent to Amchitka in the Aleutian Islands to work on a secret project for Atomic Energy Commission. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Carr, James Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d9dd8bfc133f3cd3f68e3aefb2176802.jpg 7da50b7877473d5ccdcad5f649470ee4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_FilmPacks_2_005 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1937-02-22 Title A name given to the resource Carrier Pigeon tag Portugal #2300 Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of a man holding a carrier pigeon. Subject The topic of the resource Steamboat workers Homing pigeons Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f9553fff7ddeaf25106874fefab65c58.jpg bef6c4dd29312d9278d8a8478343c494 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_NE_58_1924_016 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1924-06 Title A name given to the resource Carrizo Gorge Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of a creek in a gorge. Subject The topic of the resource Carrizo Gorge/Eastern McCain Valley Wilderness (Calif.) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e6332267e5a7e2d348aefcbc45c4dac1.jpg 40af12a6fbe4470d2800249931541ff2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context CarrollJoseph Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Carroll, Joseph Description An account of the resource Joseph Carroll, English and French Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/708ebaa0fc9dcb5c36b3fdf2d4bffbc0.jpg e84c8c695700801b82d2f041bea45007 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context CarrollPegg Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Carroll, Pegg Description An account of the resource Pegg Carroll, WGVU Producer and Host Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/edef04a75323de553ba042bdcbe9be9e.pdf 2d3d6fe277b1df9e8915da8937a528c3 PDF Text Text Carrying Coals to Newcastle Scripture: Luke 9:51-56; 19:41-48 Richard A. Rhem Fountain Street Church Grand Rapids, Michigan November 8, 1998 Transcription of the spoken sermon It is a pleasure and high privilege to be with you this morning. I am grateful to Bruce for his kind orientation and bringing me to this point. It is a privilege to stand here, and I do so with some fear and trembling, in spite of the fact that it is nearly forty years since my ordination and I have preached a sermon or two in those years. But this is not just any place, this is an historic pulpit and you are a people with a grand tradition. This is hardly a place where one would mouth banalities or come forth with trivial truisms. I come with some fear and trembling, not because I do not know that you are a gracious people and this a gracious place; you have been supportive and encouraging to me and to my people, and for that I would thank you very much. But, I do come with some fear and trembling, for this is always a very serious moment in which one would seek some word to address to a people engaged in the religious quest. I come carrying coals to Newcastle. Perhaps I should explain that a bit. There is, as some of you may know, a conversation that takes place on Tuesdays at Duba’s bar. A few weeks ago when I was wrestling with this moment, I said to an old intimate friend of mine, John Richard DeWitt, "If you were to preach at Fountain, what would you preach?" He laughed at the prospect. John Richard DeWitt is a classmate of mine from college and seminary and some few years ago he was called to become the pastor of the Seventh Reformed Church of Grand Rapids. At that time, I was serving my present congregation in Spring Lake and we were still affiliated with the Reformed Church in America and we had the distinction of being on the far left; he in Seventh Reformed Church had the distinction of being on the far right. The polls have been shaved a bit because both of us have been cut out by now. The reason that John Richard DeWitt sits at the table in Duba’s is because an older luncheon fellowship between Dr. Duncan Littlefair and Dr. Lester DeKoster had been going on for many years. And when my friend came to this city, the DeKosters became members of that congregation. Lester invited his pastor to the table. (Now, you see, Duncan was at the disadvantage. It was heavily weighted toward orthodoxy. But then my old friend invited me to the table. The scales were © Grand Valley State University   �Carrying Coals to Newcastle Richard A. Rhem Page 2   righted once again, although I had the sense that Duncan was doing quite well on his own.) But, that wonderful conversation at Duba’s was an occasion for me to say to my friend, "What would you preach?" I said to the table, "The only thing I can think of as a theme is ‘Carrying Coals to Newcastle;’ what do I have to bring to that people from whom I have learned so much, a people with whom I will spend the rest of my ministry trying to keep up?" Then my old friend, John Richard DeWitt, said, "Well, you know even Newcastle needs coals that are flaming." In that moment, of course, the sermon was born. Contrary to nature, the birth pains came afterward and have continued to the present. But, Coals to Newcastle - I, a guest in this pulpit, seeking to say something to you, a people engaged in the religious quest along with myself. I want to say very clearly in the beginning that I am conscious that I am bringing coals to Newcastle, for you have been a people for a long time on this quest. You have been a people for a long time who have been a voice in this community; you have been on the cutting edge, you have been prophetic and provocative. Thus, as I come and would say all of the things that are the passion of my life and ministry, I would only be repeating the things that have moved you and motivated you over many decades. I want you to know that I am conscious of that and that you have been for me and for many others a beacon. You have been a model of what a congregation ought to be, placed in the city as you are; I want to thank you for what you have been and express very clearly my respect for all that you are. I can perhaps demonstrate what I mean by that when I tell you a personal narrative that goes back forty years. In the irony of history and our human experience, it was forty years ago when my friend, John Richard DeWitt and I were students at Western Theological Seminary in Holland, Michigan. We were a part of a quartet that might have been called The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. We probably should have been caged up at the time, but, nonetheless, we were free to flaunt our impeccable orthodoxy. At that time my friend, John Richard, invited Dr. Duncan Littlefair to address the student assembly one evening during the year. Well, he came, and he was the adversary, he was the enemy we allowed within the camp. He was fascinating, brilliant as always, and terribly threatening. But, I was quite sure that I had managed to escape the evening without damage; I was invulnerable at those times. I had many answers, not having yet confronted the questions. It was shortly after I returned to Spring Lake in the early seventies that I was invited to be the speaker at an insurance seminar. I was some kind of a visiting fireman. I don’t know why I agreed to do it, but I told them everything I knew, and some things I only suspected. During one of the coffee breaks, my wife, Nancy, came up to me with a bit of a smile on her face with a distinguishedlooking gentleman, and she said to me, "This gentleman has just paid you a © Grand Valley State University �Carrying Coals to Newcastle Richard A. Rhem Page 3   compliment, I think." I said, "Oh, what was that?" And he said, "Well, I told your wife that any day you could step into the pulpit of Fountain Street Church." Sometime after that, I think still in the seventies, Nancy and I came and worshiped with you. I remember the day vividly. Dr. Duncan Littlefair was in this pulpit. The title of the sermon was "Honk If You Love Jesus." The text was Matthew 11:28, "Come unto me all ye who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest." And Dr. Littlefair proceeded with all of his brilliance to contradict the text. He said, "There is no one out there, you are on your own." He decried the weakness of so much sick religion. Well, it was a bit unsettling to me, I must admit. But, then, before we left the service, the choir intoned those words, "The Lord bless you ..." and I thought, "Oh well, it’s all right." But then, after some years, I was invited to be a Professor of Preaching at Western Theological Seminary and I wrote an article about the extent of God’s grace, wondering out loud and in print whether or not the embrace of God’s grace might not embrace the whole human race. I found that I wasn’t simply the pastor of Christ Community Church, but I was now a seminary professor and seminary professors don’t think out loud, let alone dare to utter such a truth. I stepped aside rather than bringing down the roof, but as I left the seminary and returned to my home base, I said to my leadership and to my team members, "I must not be less radical; I must be more radical." I said to a trusted colleague of mine, "Christ Community must move toward Fountain Street," and he said to me, "You’re in enough trouble, don’t say that publically." But, I knew it, you see, I knew it ten years ago and I have watched you and I have admired you, I have respected you and I have learned much from you. I say this to you, not simply to tell you my personal narrative, but to remind you that you are being watched and you never know who is watching and you never know the impact of the integrity of your life and what it will mean to those who with you are on the religious quest. So, I carry coals to Newcastle quite self-consciously and I do it in order to remind you that what you are and what you have been is critically important. The world needs you, this community needs you, the whole church needs you. But, I say those things to you not simply that you might relax and rest on your laurels. Let me read a statement from Martin Luther: If I profess with the loudest voice and clearest exposition every portion of the truth of God except precisely that little point which the world and the devil are at that moment attacking, I am not confessing Christ, however boldly I may be professing Christ. Where the battle rages, there the loyalty of the soldier is proved. To be steady on all battle fronts besides is mere flight and disgrace if he flinches at that point. Luther would indicate that we may be doing well all across the board, but if we have not located that one point where the battle is raging, where the fire is raging, © Grand Valley State University �Carrying Coals to Newcastle Richard A. Rhem Page 4   we will not be faithful; rather, we will be a disgrace. It is not enough once to have a vision. It is not enough to have been relevant and pertinent and powerful in the past, for it is always now and it’s always today in which we must discover that point at which the battle is raging, those things to which we must address ourselves if we would be true to our vision and faithful to our dreams. Where is the battle raging today? Well, I don’t really need to tell you. You can read it every day in your newspaper and view it on the television news. Jerusalem, the holy city, the cradle of three great religious traditions, where even this week violence, terrorism and death reign. Where people who profess to worship the same God are at the respective extremes, killing each other; where the fundamentalisms of Judaism and Islam clash. Where does the battle rage? It rages in Wyoming where a young man is strung across a fence as a sign post and a marker of that paranoia, fear and hatred that would say, "This is what we have in store for you if you are gay or lesbian." Where does it rage? It rages just down the road at my alma mater, Hope College, where the chaplaincy office advocates a position that condemns a positive response to the pluralism of religion, the recognition of the value of the respective traditions. At my old alma mater, exclusivism is being promoted in its sharpest form. Those are but symptoms, you see, for underneath, and this is my point, underneath, the greatest peril to the world, to its peace and its well-being are the respective religious fundamentalisms that are fueling the fears of people and unleashing their animal nature that result in the terrorism and the violence and the death that mark our globe every moment of every day. Where is the battle raging? It is raging in a kind of absolutist and dogmatic religion that is blind to its own meanness and narrowness, that identifies itself, its sacred book, its sacred tradition, its sacred persons with the Absolute itself, that has no sense that it is but a human response to that ultimate Mystery that pervades our lives and embraces us in a grace, and that sees its mission to promote its own particular point of view, no matter what the cost. I believe that’s where the battle rages today and I am again bringing coals to Newcastle because you’ve heard it from this pulpit for decades. But religion has never been more powerful; it has never been more volatile; it has never been more dangerous than it is in our day. And so, while I realize I am carrying coals to Newcastle, I would say to you, "What do we do about it?" We might abandon religion, wash our hands of it, shake the dust from our sandals. I’d like to do that. I cannot believe in the bigotry and the bias and the prejudice and the fueling of violence for which religion is responsible. There are times when I am so ashamed of it, I would like to leave it altogether, and I imagine you have been there, too. © Grand Valley State University �Carrying Coals to Newcastle Richard A. Rhem Page 5   Or, we might not abandon it. We might remain in it, but only in our little enclave, congratulating ourselves that we have long since left such darkness and with a kind of enlightened superiority look with disdain on those whose religious passion is misdirected. Or, we might see it as simply another social relationship, lacking all passion and significance. But, how can we? In this city where you have set such a grand tradition, the dangerous religious exclusivism to which I have referred is being preached in the majority of the pulpits at this very hour. The enlightenment that you have enjoyed over the decades has not penetrated one whit. There is still an exclusivism and a dogmatism and an absolutism which has put the whole creation in danger and is a detriment to human well-being. Well, what will we do about it? We won’t go on a social crusade. We won’t gird up our loins and march off to battle. We had better wait first, in moments like this, in an environment like this, in the attitude of prayer, allowing the Spirit to seep deeply into our being. We must be something before we do something. Let me hold up before you the model of Jesus who set his face to go to Jerusalem. It was precisely his recognition that the collusion of religion and politics was an oppression to the people that set him on his course. He set his face to Jerusalem. On the way, they went through Samaria. There was hostility between the Jews and the Samaritans and the Samaritans wouldn’t receive him. His own disciples said, "Should we call down fire from heaven and consume them?" And he said, "My God, you don’t know what spirit you’re of, for I have come to heal humanity, not destroy it." And then he came to the city and as he looked at that golden city from the crest of Olivet, he began to weep. It was anguish, anguish wet with tears. He cried out that great lament, "If you ... had only recognized ... the things that make for peace, but now they are hidden from your eyes." He could see it; he knew it. With frustration, with anger, with compassion, he entered the city and the very citadel of religion and he cleansed the temple of its bartering and its business and called it again to be what it was intended to be - a house of prayer for all people. This is why I follow the way of Jesus - not because he is some Divine Intruder invading our time and space to effect some miracle cure for our frail and flawed humanity, promising us some bliss in another world at a future time, not because he is some Savior figure of a Salvation cult. No, rather, that in that life, in that face set steadfastly toward Jerusalem, in those tears shed over that Holy City, I see the loving anguish, the passionate concern that bespeaks one who cares deeply, one who is angry with human arrogance and gracious with human weakness. I see his intolerance of human systems of domination and oppression, religious, political, economic and social. I see his awareness that it is religion gone awry that nurtures prejudice and fosters ignorance, that hides injustice in a cloak of piety while exploiting human fears and weakness to support institutionalized religion which so subtly becomes a facade behind which to hide © Grand Valley State University �Carrying Coals to Newcastle Richard A. Rhem Page 6   vested interests and reactionary forces seeking to maintain the status quo which means a societal system protecting privilege, deaf to the cry of the millions who live a less than human existence. I set before you Jesus, with all of his compassion for human weakness, in all of his anger at human dominance and oppression. I set before you one who set his face to go to Jerusalem and confronted the principalities and powers, the demons of his day. He found where the battle was raging and, after steeping himself in the presence of God, set forth to act. That is the fiery coal I would bring to Newcastle. I have no quick fix, I have no easy answer, but I’ll tell you this - a comfortable and complacent liberal religious experience will stand by while the world goes to hell and by God, we can’t let it happen! I set before you a model whose way to follow and in whose steps to walk will bring us to that point where the battle is raging. May the Spirit give you restlessness in your rest; enough humor to keep you humble, enough grace to keep you going, and joy in your journey. © Grand Valley State University � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4f2fcccfb42d10740d290ad43d18217c.mp3 c6ff30e2ee6b685b270284a6aecd4203 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Richard A. Rhem Collection Description An account of the resource Text and sound recordings of the sermons, prayers, services, and articles of Richard Rhem, pastor emeritus of Christ Community Church in Spring Lake, Michigan, where he served for 37 years. Starting in the mid 1980's, Rhem began to question some of the traditional Christian dogma that he had been espousing from the pulpit. That questioning was a first step in a long and interesting spiritual journey, one that he openly shared with his congregation. His journey is important, in part because it is reflective of the questioning, the yearnings, and the gradual revision of beliefs that many persons in this part of the century have experienced and continue to experience. It is important also because of the affirming and inclusive way his questioning was done and his thinking evolved. His sermons and other written and spoken materials together document the steps in his journey as it took a turn in 1985, yet continued to revolve around the framework and liturgies of the Christian calendar. Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Religion Interfaith worship Sermons Sound Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rhem, Richard A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/514">Richard A. Rhem papers (KII-01)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kaufman Interfaith Institute Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1981-2014 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 text/pdf Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Event Pentecost XXIII Scripture Text Luke 9:51-56, 19:41-48 Location The location of the interview Fountain Street Church, Grand Rapids, MI Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KII-01_RA-0-19981108 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1998-11-08 Title A name given to the resource Carrying Coals to Newcastle Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Richard A. Rhem Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Clergy--Michigan Reformed Church in America Christ Community Church (Spring Lake, Mich.) Sermons Relation A related resource Richard A. Rhem - An Archive of Sermons, Prayers, Talks and Stories: http://richardrhem.org/ Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Description An account of the resource A sermon given by Richard A. Rhem (Dick) on November 8, 1998 entitled "Carrying Coals to Newcastle", on the occasion of Pentecost XXIII, at Fountain Street Church, Grand Rapids, MI. Scripture references: Luke 9:51-56, 19:41-48. Inclusive Religious Quest Way of Jesus https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ad1515024e41b3f07cef5fd2d1f03400.jpg ed8d0c6a8890ba70e836a4e67d33bab1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_LS00112 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1919-01-18 Title A name given to the resource Cart upsets no guard rail on bridge Description An account of the resource Black and white lantern slide of a group of soldiers standing on top of a stone bridge in China looking down at an overturned cart on the path below. Subject The topic of the resource Lantern slides China Bridges Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/413f3ee425d5f4aef12ad0a9c4a5fa42.jpg a5b77ace0073f5f326d88ef1b9670874 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robert H. Merrill photographs Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1909/1950 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-222 Description An account of the resource Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Merrill_NE_62_1926_006 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1926-02-09 Title A name given to the resource Cartagena, Columbia Description An account of the resource Black and white photograph of a city from above. Suburbs are seen closer to the photographer with larger buildings in the distance. "Cartagena, Columbia 1926-2-9." is written on the bottom of the image. Subject The topic of the resource Cartagena (Colombia) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/27f015b7fbc40f79eea20fb815a9df55.pdf fb1d349bdd8e43f74344fed0f3762540 PDF Text Text �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-45_CW92-10-1 Title A name given to the resource Cary family letters Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1864-05-08 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Cary, Rachel Cary, George Cary family Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 United States. Army. Michigan Cavalry Regiment, 8th (1862-1865) Description An account of the resource Letters from George and Rachel Cary from Goodrich, Michigan to family. Letter to parents, May 8, 1864; letter to S. Lewis, April 4th 1864; and letter to brother mentions 8th Michigan Cavalry, January 19, 1865. Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Civil War and slavery collection (RHC-45): http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5afc7b1c1eef225b77300b2872cd70fc.pdf 6466573ffe450eba75bf1e20c6a60aba PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-45_CW92-10-5 Title A name given to the resource Cary family letters Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1864-04-04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Cary, Rachel Cary, George Cary family Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 United States. Army. Michigan Cavalry Regiment, 8th (1862-1865) Description An account of the resource Letters from George and Rachel Cary from Goodrich, Michigan to family. Letter to parents, May 8, 1864; letter to S. Lewis, April 4th 1864; and letter to brother mentions 8th Michigan Cavalry, January 19, 1865. Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Civil War and slavery collection (RHC-45): http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/11d536529464d0d440e7c21a19898783.pdf 0dd1effede60fde326596b42471b3530 PDF Text Text �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-45_CW92-10-6 Title A name given to the resource Cary family letters Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1865-01-19 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Cary, Rachel Cary, George Cary family Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 United States. Army. Michigan Cavalry Regiment, 8th (1862-1865) Description An account of the resource Letters from George and Rachel Cary from Goodrich, Michigan to family. Letter to parents, May 8, 1864; letter to S. Lewis, April 4th 1864; and letter to brother mentions 8th Michigan Cavalry, January 19, 1865. Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Civil War and slavery collection (RHC-45): http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0bd9525b8ad24fe8a79e9585cc4455bb.jpg e09709a4ac94ee0bc1ef7d6bd35c3f3a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Faces of Grand Valley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource University Communications Description An account of the resource A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960s - 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copryight Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University College administrators College teachers Colleges and universities -- Faculty Michigan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GV012-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Language A language of the resource eng Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context CaryAra Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Communications Title A name given to the resource Cary, Ara Description An account of the resource Ara Cary, School of Social Work Subject The topic of the resource Grand Valley State University – History College teachers Universities and colleges – Faculty Michigan Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/aa3d4b9750ee64551215126b8fa131b7.pdf 39dab203a8b5fbaba993c1bbe32e0f43 PDF Text Text 1 Grand Valley State University Special Collections Kent County Oral History collections, RHC-23 Cary, John Interviewed on September 27, 1971 Edited and indexed by Don Bryant, 2010 – bryant@wellswooster.com Tape #18 & 19 (1:08:16) Biographical Information John Cornelius Cary was the son of Cornelius “Neal” Cary and Julia A. Lynch. Neal Cary was born in Vergennes Township, Kent County in January 1861, the son of Patrick Cary and Catharine Boylen. Julia was born in October 1861 in Kent County, Michigan, the daughter of Jeremiah Lynch and Julia Harrington. Neal married Julia Lynch in Grand Rapids on 27 October 1896. John C. Cary was born 2 October 1897 in Grand Rapids. About 1926, he married Helen M. Wren. Helen died 6 June 1972 and John passed away five years later on 1 June 1977. They are buried in Woodlawn Cemetery in Grand Rapids. ___________ Interviewer: Were you born in Grand Rapids, Mr. Cary? Mr. Cary: Yes, I was, in October second, eighteen ninety-seven on, what was then, Central Avenue, now Sheldon Street. And it was the fifth house north of Fifth Avenue, so called at that time, now Franklin Street. It was on the east side of the street, and the house was torn down some eight, ten years ago, the entire area from Franklin Street, north to Sycamore and Sheldon, east of Jefferson, has been completely torn down, for a new project either a housing development project or an extension of the Sheldon Complex. When I was five years old we moved from there to a house on the west side of Cass Avenue between Hall and Delaware. Dr. Long, who was quite a prominent physician in the South End as it was called in the south part of Grand Rapids, it was, lived on the corner, the southwest….or the northwest corner of Cass Avenue and Delaware. It was called Eighth Avenue then, under the old numbering system. And next to us was a Mrs. was the VanderVelde family, and she was a half-sister of Adrian Otte, who, with his brother John Otte, organized the American Laundry Company, which was existing then on Division, at the corner of Haifley and Division. We lived there from the time I was five years old until I graduated from the law school at the University of Michigan in nineteen twenty-two. Interviewer: Were your parents born in Grand Rapids? Mr. Cary: My mother, yes. My mother was born blessed Julia Lynch. She was a part of the Irish laboring people who built what was called the South Railroad into Grand Rapids. I‟ve never been able to determine what they meant by the South Railroad, but I think it was the Grand Rapids and Indiana Railroad. Those Irish laborers who worked on the railroad, and I had an uncle, Timothy Lynch, who was sort of a section boss of those people who laid the tracks and ties and spiked „em and so on. A group of them settled in the southwest part of Grand Rapids. My grandfather had an opportunity to buy some land around the swamp, which is, was located about where the Union Depot was subsequently built which is no more because of the expressway. But he wanted to be on the high ground so he bought five acres from Noyes Avery, �2 I can‟t tell you the year but it was before my mother was born in eighteen fifty-nine and built a house, which still exists on Jerome Street running north of Burton on the high hill east of the railroad tracks as they cross there. Interviewer: And the house still stands? Mr. Cary: The house still stands. Not on the original site, subsequently my mother and father platted that into the Lynch-Cary addition, and it was moved to the corner of Jerome Street, and it was called Jerome Street because the city wouldn‟t allow my mother to name it Jeremiah, which was my Grandfather‟s given name. And, so, mother was born there in eighteen fifty-nine, and then my father was born in Sect.., on Section seven of Vergennes Township. My grandfather, Patrick Cary, also by legend, was, did some work, or worked on the Erie Canal, came through into Ohio and was, lived there for a short period and, in eighteen forty or eighteen forty-two when he entered some sections in for Vergennes Township, Section seven, parts of section, I should say he gave his residence as Marshall, Michigan. The only connection that I can get to that is that he was a laborer on the, what is now, the Michigan Central, or Penn Central Railroad running from Detroit thru Ann Arbor, Jackson, Battle Creek, Marshall, Kalamazoo into Niles and into Chicago. Sometime after that he moved and settled on the land in Vergennes Township and my father was born there in eighteen sixty-one and lived there until he became a young man, came to Grand Rapids and went to work for the Judson Grocery Company and alternately as a shipping clerk, ultimately he became what they called in those days, a broom peddler. He was a traveling salesman for the Judson Grocery Company, and his territory was from White Cloud on the Pere Marquette to Thompsonville north, and from Reed City on the GR & I to Cadillac and west of Lake Michigan including Ludington, Baldwin, Wallahalla, Sherman, Scottville, Mesick and many towns that were built because the lumbering industry which existed. Interviewer: Was the Judson Grocery Store, was that the wholesale house? Mr. Cary: Yes. It was located at right as I, my earliest recollection of it was at the corner of Ottawa and Louis Street, more close to the corner. Subsequently, Mr. Judson built the building [now the B.O.B.] on Market Street just off from the corner of Fulton and that building was operated by the Judson Grocery Company until about nineteen twenty-seven or twenty-eight and after Mr. Judson‟s death, who was a very staunch ardent Republican, it was sold to William Cady and William Cady operated it there and subsequently on Jefferson Avenue in the old Wilmarth, Welch-Wilmarth Showcase Factory, on Jefferson, east of Macey‟s and at the railroad, Pere-Marquette railroad tracks. I think your grandfather and McInerney subsequently occupied some part of that area for his client before he moved to Godfrey Avenue as a result of a fire. Interviewer: Was there, you‟re an Irishman? Mr. Cary: Yes Interviewer: Did the Irish have a kind of particular area in the town that they lived in? Mr. Cary: Yes. There were two predominately Irish settlements. The Irish immigration to Grand Rapids was the first economic, ethnic migration. By that I mean that the German migration to Grand Rapids was the first ethnic group, was a political migration; they didn‟t want their sons to be a part of the imperial German Army that Bismarck had invented. The whole [exolerance?] were planning for Germany and so the German migration was to Grand Rapids, �3 was similar to the one to Cincinnati, Milwaukee, St. Louis and so on. So that, that is why the two most prominent department stores in Grand Rapids carry German names, Herpolsheimer and Wurzburg, and they were a part of that early migration and their migration was not because the economic conditions. The Irish migration was and they were the common laborers of the United States at that time. And the railroads were being built at that time and the Irish built the railroads. And the two prominent places in Grand Rapids were the area around the D & M Depot at Plainfield and the, what had got to the railroad got that far, the Irish who did, worked for the railroad settled in the area around Leonard, Plainfield, Carrier and all of that territory there. And I, it‟s an assumption on my part, that St. Alphonsus church, was erected in that area because of the fact that the Irish-Catholic people who lived in that area. The other Irish settlement was as a result of the railroads coming in from the south as I spoke of before and they settled in what was the First Ward, which was around Ellsworth, Grandville around Number Six Engine House, over there and up Grandville Avenue there. And also, along Clyde Park from Grandville south and most of those people had large families and to supplement their economy they had several of them had five acres running from Clyde Park through to Century and at that time Century, when I went out to visit my grand uncles out on Clyde Park Avenue there was no Century Avenue and subsequently after the Rathbone Mantle and Fireplace [Manufacturing] was erected on Clyde Park Avenue which would now be a little south of where the Kelvinator plant is and after the Leonards moved their ice-box manufacturing place to what is now the Kelvinator, why the Irish plotted those areas, and that‟s why you have Holmes Street, Lynch Street and you get streets that up there Shamrock and Emerald and McKendrick, various other real Irish names. For many years Thirty-Sixth Street or Thirty or Forty-Fourth Street was called Daly and the Dalys and the Lynches were intermarried and I can‟t tell you the relationship of the Dalys, but they had a large farm and near where the Reynolds plant is now, which was the heart of the site of the old gas[?] plant, which was a started building during the First World War, and never got finished. [Louis Lynch in 1893 married Julia Daly in Grand Rapids.] Interviewer: Well what was the downtown, what did you do as a child? You mentioned that you, kind of hung around the streets, were kind of an urchin, what…. Mr. Cary: Well I, I didn‟t decay around the streets, my parents wouldn‟t let me, but as a kid and I‟m sure, I was six years old, I went to St. Andrews school, which was then at the corner of Maple and Sheldon, and from our house on Cass Avenue to there was a mile and a quarter and we walked it four times a day, „walked‟ is used in bicycling because it was probably running not to be late, and I don‟t think that there was a fence in any of that area that I or my companions hadn‟t jumped, in one way or another by being chased out of the yard or because we were in a hurry. And, but some of the other people that lived in that area were Bill Morrissey and his brother Leo, who died while the boys were in school. Bill Morrissey became the owner of the Fanitorium and he was a fight promoter and recreation and built up recreation facilities in Grand Rapids as he came to manhood following the First World War. Another family who was from that area and were closely associated with Morrissey was the Pipp family, who were very large, had a very large family. The older boy, Ben, became a priest, I don‟t know whether he was a secular priest or he belonged to an order, I‟ve forgotten that, but his brother, Wally, became a member of the New York Yankees, played first base and was pushed out of his job by the famous Hank Gehrig. And Wally was in, and I met him in, at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, when we were both in the Naval Flying Corp and there were several of the New York Yankees in the ….well… We studied at M.I.T., but it would probably to designate it �4 would, would say it was what was ground school now in the Naval period of the Second World War and he was there and a fellow by the name of [Leslie] Nunamaker was there and on both the False Armistice on the fourth of November in nineteen eighteen and then the real one on March eleventh, nineteen eighteen in my particular squad, marching in the parade in Boston, at that time, was a famous baseball player by the name of Tris Speaker. You want to shut that off a minute? Interviewer: Sure. Did you see the, what was the former Post Office, which is now the Federal Building? Mr. Cary: Yes. Interviewer: Did you see that dedication? The dedication of that building? Mr. Cary: Yes. Yes. Interviewer: Can you tell me about that, why you were there and so on? Mr. Cary: Well, I was there because it was, we were let out of school and we were let out of school to go to that affair and it was a real civic celebration for Grand Rapids to have a building as nice as that and so on. I, of course, had no conception that it was a nice building, at that time. There were other kids there and people of prominence were there and we were probably making nuisances of ourselves, crowding in and so on to watch of course. Teddy Roosevelt was, was a national and international figure of those days and his experience and his fame as a Rough Rider were carried by every youngster of that time. And to have his daughter in town for an affair of that kind was a real event. There was also Vice-President Sherman, was here for that affair. And it was Sunny Jim, so called, “Sunny Jim” Sherman, former senator from New York, and not John Sherman, the brother of William Tecumseh Sherman, the general, who was in the Senate and who was in the Congress of the United States, from the time in the Civil War until his death, which I, it was after the turn of the century, but I don‟t remember just when. Interviewer: Why, you mentioned to me before when we were talking that the sisters down at St. Andrews had something against Alice Roosevelt. What, what was that? Mr. Cary: Well, at that time, cigarette smoking by women was a real evil thing; many people thought it was that. And Alice Roosevelt had a reputation at that time as being a cigarette smoker, and she smoked in public. She was always one, and still is, too, she is quite famous for her vitriolic remarks of one kind or another, about a Governor Dewey of New York and some of the other national figures that she didn‟t completely care for, and she was not one to take a back seat and if she wanted to smoke cigarettes, why she smoke cigarettes. And it made it was long worth from Cincinnati, she had money enough to smoke cigarettes when she wanted to. Interviewer: Was there a common, a common thing in those days, for like for example, the dedication of a federal building, to have a city-wide celebration? Mr. Cary: Yes and they….Grand Rapids was predominately a Republican community and whether it was a result of the Civil War or not, I don‟t know, but it was predominately Republican. And the Coliseum which was built by Heystek on Commerce Street between Oakes and Cherry along about nineteen seven or eight and [Charles] Jandorf, who had a delicatessen �5 store on Monroe Avenue would be just immediately west of Peck‟s Drug Store, which was at, was at the corner of Division and Monroe at the northwest corner, was the caterer for most of those affairs. And they would have the William Alden Smith, who was a senator after nineteen seven, priding himself on bringing some of the most famous and popular Republicans to the Lincoln-Day banquets of that time. And my father because of Mr. Gibson‟s prominence in the Republican Party was probably given tickets to those banquets, usually held on Friday night, when he would come in off his northern route with a [ ?]. You know that my father wasn‟t enough of a political person to have spent the, the money that was charged for those, there were six of us children, and he just didn‟t have that kind of money to pay for affairs of that kind. Interviewer: The Coliseum, is that still standing? Mr. Cary: Yes. It‟s, it‟s mentioned in the downtown Grand Rapids eighteen thirty – nineteen ten, I think it was the Heystek building. It was, you guess, it was at, it was originally, its site was there on Commerce. Sometime later they acquired some property on Division Street and an annex was built out to Division, but for, from its inception for many years thereafter, it was on Commerce Street. And as kids, on Saturday morning, and that‟s true of most of the kids that, that went to Central, Division Avenue School, St. Andrews, Fountain Street School, in those schools, who were all fifteen [to] sixteen years of age, would go to the Coliseum on Saturday morning to roller skate. It was a real recreation spot, at that particular time. Interviewer: Was there much difference between the downtown of those days and the downtown of today? Mr. Cary: Not much really. They, Grand Rapids was always a one-street town, Monroe Avenue. And it used to, I would imagine that they used to drive carriages down Monroe Avenue to show off. And I know when I was a young boy anybody that had an automobile drove it down Monroe Avenue and when we got into high school and in early days of college, if you were out on the prowl for picking up some girls, why if you had a car or could borrow or get someone else, ride in someone else‟s why you went down there on Monroe Avenue to show off. And that was still the situation until they put the mall in, and they fairly well eliminated that, for the time being. Interviewer: What were the, was the, the commercial establishments, pretty much the same or were there some differences there? For example, grocery companies; I don‟t believe there are any groceries companies downtown now, are there? Mr. Cary: Well are you speaking of retail or wholesale groceries? Interviewer: Both. Mr. Cary: Well, there were many wholesale groceries in those days. In addition to the Judson, which my family was connected, a short distance away at the corner of Weston and Ottawa, why the northwest corner was the Worden Grocery Company that, I don‟t know who Mr. Worden [A. E. Worden] was or what the connection is, but Guy Rouse, the „Winchesters, were active in that business at the time that I speak of, the Judson Grocery Company, which would be from oh, nineteen seven to nineteen twenty-seven, a twenty year period. Another one that was, that I remember of at that time which was on Ionia Street across from William Alden Smith building between what is now Weston Street and Fulton, was the Musselman Grocery Company, and that �6 was headed by Amos Musselman, who was a very prominent man at that time. At the corner of, on the northwest corner of, Ionia and Weston, where Quimby-Kain is now, was the wholesale grocery house of Lemon and Wheeler and that, that I don‟t know much about Mr. Wheeler, but Sam Lemon was well known at that time and it was his early Greek revival house of red brick and white pillars on Jefferson, on the east side of Jefferson that was, has been recently occupied by the O‟Brien funeral home, was the home of Sam Lemon. A little further south, on Jefferson, at that time, was another Greek revival house, which had been torn down, unfortunately, which was the home of Jacob Kleinhans. He was a very prominent lawyer in the law firm of Kleinhans, Knappen, Kleinhans, Knappen and Kleinhans. Knappen became the United States Court Judge of appeals and Kleinhans was a very prominent lawyer around the early nineteen ten and earlier in that time and Stuart Knappen, the son of the judge was a member of that firm, and that firm and its successors exist today in Wheeler, Upham, Uhl, and Bryant. But to go back to the wholesale grocery houses, at the, at the southeast corner of, of Ionia and Weston, what is now the Morse [Dry Goods] building, formerly the Transportation Building. That was, I think, originally built for wholesale grocery and wholesale hardware store. M.J. Clark, the donator of the Clark Memorial home of the Methodist Preachers on Sherman Street was involved in two companies there, Clark-Rutka-Weaver [actually hardware firm, not grocery] and Clark-Jewell-Wells. I can‟t tell… (break in the taping) … [Recording skips to a later portion of transcript. See beginning of Side Two] I was speaking of M.J. Clark and his company. I can‟t distinguish between which was the wholesale hardware firm and which was the wholesale grocery firm. The Judson Grocery Company bought out, I think it was Clark-Jewell-Wells. I think that was the grocery company but I wouldn‟t be firm about that. And that became a part of the Judson Grocery Company sometime during my boyhood days. Another company that was absorbed by Judson Grocery Company and wholesale house, and this was before my…any knowledge of it. I used to see the sign, an old sign that they had in the drive in of the Judson grocery company. The Ball Barnhart Putnam Company; it was a wholesale grocery company. And Mr. O[rson]. A. Ball, who was a son or a nephew of John Ball of John Ball Park, was one of the officers of the Judson Grocery Company, subsequent to that buyout or merger of the Ball Barnhart Putnam Company. Mrs. William Judson the First was a Barnhart and it may have been some family connection there that caused the absorption, but that I have no knowledge of. But I think Worden absorbed various wholesale grocery houses but you ask about places, food places, on the Monroe Avenue there was one called Dutton Taylors, which was a very fine market, large grocery store and market and it was in the block west of Peck‟s drugstore on the corner of, and I use that as a fixing point because most everybody knows where Peck‟s drugstore was, on the corner, the northwest corner the flat iron area of Division and Monroe that was oh half way in the middle of that block. Across the street was the at the corner of Commerce which would‟ve been at the south west corner of Commerce and Monroe because at that time Commerce came through from Fulton Street into Monroe at an angle was the Morse Department [Dry Goods] Store, George Morse and there was a food department connected with that in the back end of it ran through and came out on Ionia Street between Louis and Monroe and there‟s a story I know about George Morse who was inclined to be oh let‟s say a little (garbled word) maybe a little more. He was walking through there, through the food department one day and it was a custom then to sell cheese in a �7 large round bowl. Oh it probably was a foot or 18 inches across. They‟d cut the mold. Then to entice you to buy they‟d sliver off a piece of the cheese and offer it to you on the knife and you could taste the cheese and see whether or not it had the bouquet and the flavor and so forth and it was what you wanted. So Mr. Morse was going through there and the clerk was doing that to someone and he said out of the corner of his mouth, “Sell it to him, don‟t give it to him” (Laughter). Sometime when I was in grade school there was a large fire in that department store now whether it was during the Morse ownership or subsequently when it was known as Ira Smith‟s Department Store, I can‟t recall, but I don‟t remember how the, a department store being in that area or that building much after that fire. There was another large grocery store and market called the Bertsch Market on lower Monroe and about where Crescent came into, ran into Monroe; the west side of Monroe and that area from the Pantlind Hotel south to Bridge Street and Michigan Avenue as you… Interviewer: North Mr. Cary: ….it was all Bridge Street for many, many years and then I think the time the numbered system was changed the area from Monroe to the east was called Michigan and the area west of Monroe was still called Bridge Street and the stores and the shops in that area were as good as the shops up Monroe avenue. There was the Wurzburg‟s Department Store down close to Crescent Street, there was the Benjamin Company, there was the [Levi‟s] Star Clothing store in that area, the Petey[?] Apparel Company whose kids went to St. Andrews with me and their father owned that store which was on the east side of Monroe in the area between Lyon and Crescent. There was Katz Brothers which was at the corner of, the north east corner of Lyon and Monroe, the Water Shoe Store[?] which was a large shoe store at that time was there in the sort of onion shape projection there in the corner of the…well it‟s the first street runs dead end into the Civic Auditorium. Interviewer: Where the Inersin[?] Drugstore is now. The Inersin Craft, Art and Supply store is there? Mr. Cary: Well no, it‟s not Inersin that‟s over on Louis Street here. That‟s the…. Interviewer: Oh yeah not Inersin. Mr. Cary: ….Dave Munner, Douma‟s? Interviewer: Yeah. Mr. Cary: Yeah, that‟s the street I‟m talking about there. And then of course Aman‟s Sons The Giant [Giant Clothing Company] was at the south east corner of Lyon. Our earliest theatre, movie theater, was in the area between Lyon and Monroe across from the Pantlind and Peck‟s drugstore was in that area. That was a large progressive drugstore and the forerunner of being of a drugstore being something else besides selling drugs. I can remember one time, it was after I got out of college - I was practicing law, I was in the west drugstore in the evening around six o‟clock it may been because I was going to the Armory which was on Michigan Avenue for a concert. I saw the one, the in-inable[?] Shayapa come into Peck‟s drugstore from across the street from the Pantlind one of the most striking people I ever saw on the streets of Grand Rapids. He had one of those Asterican[?] fur hats cocked on the side of his head he was about, six feet three, six feet four, weighing around two hundred pounds and he carried, carried himself �8 to the full extent of his height just a magnificent looking male figure and he was giving a concert at the Armory where concerts were held in those days. But the movies had been in Grand Rapids was named Gaudet and for years the people in Grand Rapids didn‟t speak of going to the movies they were going to the Gaudet and I know as green as I was when I went to Boston in nineteen eighteen, why I would speak of the movies as going to the Gaudet the people down there of course had no idea what I was talking about and the United Star Store had a place in the corner of Pearl and Monroe and upstairs over that was one of the finest eating places both from the standpoint of food and reputation. It was a Chinese restaurant [Hong Ying Lo] operated by Charlie Young. Mr. Young was a educated Chinese. He was the only interpreter that I ever saw in the federal court. [END OF SIDE ONE] [SIDE TWO] [RECORDING CONTINUES HERE] …both the plaintiff and the respondent in the same proceedings and they had been because there weren‟t any other educated Chinese who could act as interpreter but, Charlie Young had the reputation of being a real, fine character, real fine honest man and it was because of that reputation, I‟m sure that he was allowed to jump to both sides in the lawsuit. But that restaurant was, had a reputation all over the west especially in western Michigan and if anyone came in and were of the least bit boisterous in the place, Mr. Young in a very quiet, suave way went over and either quieted them, or escorted them to the center stairway so that they could leave. Interviewer: Was, did you ever go to Chinnick‟s? Mr. Cary: Chinnick‟s was just east of the Young restaurant, Chinese restaurant and the United Cigar Store there on the corner was the Arcade, which ran through and it still exists, that runs through from Pearl to Lyon and the Power‟s Opera House fronted on to the east side of the Arcade and that was the real, legitimate, the better, legitimate theatre of Grand Rapids of that area. And just east of that was the, the Chinnick Saloon and upstairs over that there was one of the first bowling alleys of Grand Rapids, and if not the first, one of the very earliest and about the only one for many years. As kids growing up as high school boys, there were two saloons there… the Chinnick and Hugh Cavanaughs or commonly called Colonel Cavanaugh and you could prove that you looked to be twenty-one, if you could get by either Hugh Cavanaugh or Bill Chinnick, who sat at the front of their saloon. If you could get by whether you were eighteen or nineteen, into that, you looked twenty-one……They were a very high grade of operators of liquor by the glass business and were real respected citizens. So I, I spoke of Powers Opera House and when I got through college in nineteen twenty-two and started practicing law in the law firm, of which I am the survivor, and which has existed in Grand Rapids for one hundred years in nineteen seventy one.. I started at a salary of a hundred dollars a month. In fact, I could make more money on Saturday afternoon, going out and officiating at ba football game, than I could all week practicing law. So there was Harper Moore, was at Knappen, Uhl & Bryants as it was called then, and I was at Norris, McPherson, Harrington and Waers as it was called then, and Al Cook, my roommate and was at Corwin and Norcross, Norcross being later a part of Warner, Norcross and Judd and Al Cook was George Norcross‟ brother in law and…. Oh, there were several others, there was Bill Biggerd[?], from Yale, who was at the Travelers, which was then in the building and where our office was located, and a �9 fellow by the name of John Randall, whose father was an Episcopal bishop somewhere in Connecticut, and three or four of them were living at the YMCA, and we used to go there and play bridge at night and other nights we would take in the theatres. In the early period, although I don‟t remember very much of our going, that crowd, going to the Majestic, but at that time in Grand Rapids, there were the, the name escapes me now, a group of players and of that group was Selena Royal was the leading lady Spencer Tracy was the leading male, young man. Bill, his name escapes me too; he later became the director of the degrees for the Masonic Order in Grand Rapids and stayed that way for twenty or twenty-five years, directing the degree program of the Masonic group. But then the Clark, I guess, Players although I wouldn‟t be sure of that name, although the man who owned, owned the outfit and or at least operated it, directed it, came out in sometime, during one of the acts and told what was coming on later on. They later moved to Powers Theatre Building and operated out of there and so we were real patrons of the legitimate theatre arts, as stock played by Selena Royal and Spencer Tracy. Selena Royal later went to New York. She was a part of a theatre family and was in some very fine New York productions. I can‟t tell you very much of it, about it anymore. I haven‟t followed through in that area extensively and my memory fails me, in part…. Interviewer: What‟s the…You mentioned that in nineteen thirty-six you came into possession of a social register of Senator Smiths? Mr. Cary: Yes. Interviewer: Did you have any connection with William Alden Smith? Mr. Cary: Yes, he was, he was a close friend of William Judson and we…shut that off….when I started practicing law with Norris McPherson, Harrington and Waer, our office was in the Grand Rapids Savings Bank Building, now the Peoples Building. And the Senator William Alden Smith was President of the Grand Rapids Savings Bank or was chairman of the board, and Gilbert Daane was the President of… Mr. Harrington, Mr. Leon Harrington, of the firm was a friend of Gil Daane‟s and did quite a bit of work for the Grand Rapids Saving Bank. And about nineteen twenty Gil Daane and Senator Smith organized the Michigan Guarantee Corporation which was a finance company which was quite prominent in that period following the First World War. It was an outfit that made loans that the Grand Rapids Savings Bank couldn‟t make under the regulations of the banking department. And with his prominence, Senator Smith sold stock in the Michigan Guarantee Corporation, pretty well over the middle and the dock(?) district of Michigan. And our office did quite a lot of work for the Grand Rapids Savings Bank and the Michigan Guarantee Corporation. And Mr. Charles McPherson, who was a partner with Joseph Brewer Senior in Kelsey-Brewer Company which was the partnership which owned the controlling stock of the American Company Public Utilities Corporation was also a member of the firm. And the Grand Rapids Trust Company which was subsequently headed by Mr. Brewer after he got out of the public utility business in nineteen twenty-five, by a sale to Samuel Insel, was the executor of the William Alden Smith estate. And because of his ownership of Grand Rapids Savings stock and the double liability of stockholders in case of bank failures the Senator Smith was estate was considerably diminished by virtue of having to pay on that liability of his stock. And so the Senator died in nineteen thirty-three, thirty-two or thirty-three, and his wife, Nanna Smith, survived until late in nineteen thirty-five or early in nineteen thirty-six. So at that time, I was a young lawyer and a young book collector and I thought that probably Senator Smith would have some government publications by Schoolcraft and others on the Indians and �10 things, and I thought probably I could get some real finds. And so I asked Mr. McPherson if I could go and look over the Senator‟s library and he made arrangements for me to do that, and so on March the thirteenth, nineteen thirty-six, Irving Quimby, who was the owner of a bookstore called Raymer‟s Bookstore, along with Mrs. McCarn and Mr. Hooper, who headed the trust department of the Grand Rapids Trust Company, and one or two others went to the Smith Library. And before I went, Mr. McPherson said to me, “John I think your just wasting your time.” He says, “the Senator was a politician not a student.” Well I didn‟t find any real first editions at the Senator‟s, in the Senator‟s library. I did get a book that the senator got free, which was a book that was issued when the Clements Library of Ann Arbor was when the University of Michigan was dedicated and I also got a copy of the History of the Supreme Court of the United States, which was published in eighteen ninety and in it there were original etchings by two brothers in Philadelphia, of all of the - Rosenthal were their names - of all of the justices of the Supreme Court up to eighteen ninety. Those were the two books that I got from the Senator‟s library and having finished the examination of the books, I was waiting for Irving Quimby to get through and the others were looking around and there in the library between two Chinese dogs, which were a real showpiece if you liked that sort of thing, was an old burner and it was filled with waste of one kind of another, leather obituary mementos which were custom of people with money in those days to have, were thrown in there and I rummaged through it and I saw a little black Morocco book about eight by eight in there and I picked it out, rummaged through it, and immediately recognized that it was a book of autographs. So I sat in the window seat there, and ran through it, and recognized the names of local people and politicians and state politicians and national politicians and figures and I was wearing a tweed Al McCain[?] sleeved coat, with great big pockets and the thought went through my mind and which was well, “Should I say something about this or should I stick it in my pocket?” And so finally, I thought I can‟t do anything with a thing like that, after you get it surreptitiously, so I said to Jim Hoover, “Jim, are there any other books like this around?‟ He said, “What is it?” Well, I says, “It looks like it‟s a book of autographs.” “Well,” he says, “I don‟t know. But,” he says, “if it‟s here, it belongs to Mrs. Jewell.” Well Frank Jewell who was had been a lumber man and who was married to Mrs. Smith‟s sister was there. He had an office in the, on the 12th floor of the Grand Rapids Savings Bank above my office and our firm offices, so I knew Mr. Jewell through his sons and from seeing him at the building for a number of years. And so Mr. Jewell said, “Well, if it‟s here, Mrs. Jewell doesn‟t want it.” That she‟s taken everything that she wants. So I thought, Well, here is my entry. Here is where I go in. So in my very best dealing smile I handed it to Mr. Jewell and I said, “Well if it‟s Mrs. Jewell‟s and she doesn‟t want it, it would be hers to give away”. So I offered it to him and he took it and it flashed through my mind, “you should have stuck that in your pocket”….He went up stairs with the book and in about 10 or 15 minutes later, came back and he telephoned across the street to Mrs. Jewell and he walked across the room, the library there, and handed the book to me and said “Mrs. Jewell wants you to have it. So make your own moral and how about it? So following that I got squibs and other things from a various people who were mentioned in the books was the lucky occasion was of a….. [END OF TAPE ONE, SIDES ONE AND TWO] [TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE] Mr. Cary: Ask me what you want. Interviewer: Well let‟s start out with that story concerning the diary, the one about the Indiana… �11 Mr. Cary: Okay. Interviewer: …Congressman. Mr. Cary: Part of the interesting pages in the William Alden Smith guestbook is that one which concerns the round robin, which Senator Smith, Senator Watson of Indiana and Senator Hyde, Harding, of Ohio had on Washington on St. Patrick‟s Day. Our former fellow townsman, Fred Wetmore, who nominated William Alden Smith, in nineteen thirteen the last nomination by the Michigan Legislature of a United States Senator, told me this story and that he had it from the Senator himself, and in the book, on March seventeen, nineteen-eighteen, the Smiths having a party, the next President of the United States wrote “On the morn of songs and sausages.” And his wife Florence Kling Harding signed her name and as an aside for many reasons, personal and intimate writings of President and Mrs. Harding, are difficult to secure and especially together on the same instrument. Indiana Senator Watson recorded ”On a day long to be remembered.” Well, Senator Watson was an outspoken, testy curmudgeon and renown in Indiana for his pointed use of the vernacular. There appears in one of Jonathan Daniels recent books a statement by Senator Watson, which is more in character than the above statement about it being a day long to be remembered. Wendell Willkie was from Indiana and in nineteen forty the Republican candidate for President of the United States. And his supporters sought Senator Watson‟s endorsement, and the Senator refused because he complained that candidate Willkie was a Democrat and so he didn‟t want to endorse him and so finally Senator Watson was pushed and asked if he didn‟t believe in conversion, and the all-irreconcilable graphically snorted, “If a whore repented and wanted to join the church I‟d personally welcome her, and lead her up the aisle to a pew. But by the Eternal, I‟d not asked her to lead the choir the first night.” Interviewer: What was that other, there was another incident you related to me about some fellow that was, who was in charge of some committee that would approve a project? It was a pork-barrel project involving the Grand River. Mr. Cary: Oh that was, was a party which the Smiths gave for Vice President Marshall, who this Senator, Senator Smith was there during the Wilson administration, and of course Marshall was Woodrow Wilson‟s Vice President. And so the guests were Vice President Marshall and Senator and Mrs. Kellogg from Minnesota and Newton Baker, who was Secretary of War at the time, and his wife and Mrs. T. DeWitt Talmage, who was the widow of a very prominent Presbyterian, or at least Protestant minister of the Washington community and quite famous. And so one of the stories about Vice-President Marshall, of course, is the famous one about what this country needs is a good five-cent cigar. But in his recollections, subtitled “Hoosier Salad”, he related an occasion when an appropriation to dredge the Grand River in Michigan was being debated. And Senator William Alden Smith was for the appropriation and Senator Theodore Burton of Ohio, opposed it. And the controversy, according to Vice President Marshall, was waxing, warm and Burton was insisting that there never had been two and a half feet depth in that river, and there never could be and Smith, Senator Smith said to him testily, “Well, you‟re the man to whom when you were in the house of Representatives, we gave a dinner in Grand Rapids, and you came back and introduced the first appropriation for this.” “Yes.” Burton replied, “I know that is so. You gave me a dinner there, and after the dinner, was over, I saw water, where there was no water”. “But I‟m sober now. I‟ve reformed and I‟m opposed to this appropriation.” �12 Interviewer: How, how about that, the story about how Catholic Central finally got a football team? Mr. Cary: Why I don‟t, I don‟t know whether that story is, is how they got it, but the fact is that in nineteen twelve, I was a sophomore in Catholic Central High School and in nineteen eleven, the boys who were Juniors and Seniors in Catholic Central played football, but they were not allowed to play under the name Catholic Central, because Bishop Richter, who was very aesthetic, pious, studious man and a great administrator of the Dioceses, who a great number of years figured that children should be educated and should not waste their time on athletics and other things, and he wouldn‟t allow athletics in the high school, so the boys who would play and in nineteen eleven the kids that went to Catholic Central played under the name Ernie Reed‟s. Ernie Reed was a saloon keeper who had a saloon at the northwest corner of Cherry Street and Division Avenue. Winegar‟s large furniture store was immediately south of Ernie Reeds, on the same side of the street and some of the people, who played on the nineteen eleven Ernie Reed team were Carroll Williams, who later went to the University of Michigan and became a rather prominent engineer in Grand Rapids, a brother of Francis Williams, the lawyer who has two sons who were both practicing law in Grand Rapids. One of the other members of the team was John Hugh O‟Donnell, usually signed J. Hugh O‟Donnell, who went to University of Notre Dame, and played center on one of the teams that Knute Rockne played on. That would be sometime in nineteen twelve [or] thirteen and later after the First World War, Hugh O‟Donnell, who was a very fine imposing, looking person, who had a tremendously sonorous voice, speaking voice, joined the priesthood. I don‟t know whether he became a regular priest or whether he joined the order, but he ultimately became a member of the Holy Cross Order and ultimately was elected as President of Norte Dame, and served for one, six-year term and then was out the required period and came back and was elected for another six-year term as President of Notre Dame. On that was also Bob Murray, who‟s family had, made money in the lumbering industry, and the Murray Building at the corner of Division and Library Street is, was built by Bob Murray‟s father, John Murray. Oh, there was the Holland, Alphonse Holland and others that, oh an Italian boy who was one of the stars of that Cole Manardo. In fact, the matter is there may have been two Cole Manardos, on the, the team, Cole is an abbreviation of Cosamou Manardo and at that time I knew four Cosie Manardos in various stages of the school at St. Andrews and the one who lived on Jefferson Avenue, right near Sycamore, went to Detroit and is still a well-to-do, practicing lawyer in Detroit. Where the others are, I don‟t know now. Interviewer: Was there much of, when the Ernie Reed football team was playing, did they play Central High School? Mr. Cary: I, I was young enough so that I didn‟t know who they played or how they played. Yeah, at that time, you know there was, there was only one high school that really had a full time twelve grades and that was Central High School, Grand Rapids Central. At that time it was a real all-state power, the big teams of the state was Detroit Central, Grand Rapids Central and Muskegon High School. At a little earlier than that, Robert Zupke, who was later the great coach at the University of Illinois, was the coach at Muskegon High School and he went from Muskegon to Oak Park, Illinois, had very successful teams there and then about nineteen twelve or thirteen, Zup, whom I later was acquainted with personally along with Benny Oosterbaan, who was one of his boys, but who Zup didn‟t get to go to the University of Illinois, were friends of mine. We used to play some golf at, in tournaments at Spring Lake and Muskegon and so on. �13 And Zupke was a very vocal person, always, always telling stories and so in the twenties Zupke was out scouting and looking for players for Illinois and Benny Oosterbaan was out looking for players for the University of Michigan. And they traveled together. And I can remember a couple of years, there was a hole over at Spring Lake Country Club, around the third where the third, the fifteenth, and the seventh or sort of came together, and so when you‟d finish your match, and were waiting for the next one, why you‟d congregate in that area. And I spent several hours there listening to Zupke tell stories about his various teams. Benny Oosterbaan would be laying on his back, with his hands under his head and his elbows akimbo to his head, and you‟d think he was asleep, but whenever Zupke would run down Oosterbaan would kind of roll over like that, open up one eye and say, “Hey Dutchman, did you ever tell them about so-and-so?”, and Zupke would then be off again no, no sense story so that, when you got away from Grand Rapids Central, but it was the only high school. It wasn‟t until nineteen eleven or twelve that Union High School became a full twelve grade school and so I remember that Johnny Beck, Alvin Louks and some of those boys of that time, some of the others, their names don‟t come to me now, played on the first Union High School Football team. So get back a little to Catholic Central, now I played on the first team, a friend of mine lived on the block south of us, was a boy by the name of Paul Hines. His father was a railroad engineer and Paul was not very successful in athletics and but he was very fond of them and so I remember in the late summer of nineteen twelve, I was down at Paul‟s house, we always called him Pickle, Pickle Hines and he asked me how old I was and how much I weighed. Well I didn‟t know and so we went over to Cody‟s store, which was at the corner of Highland and Lafayette and I got weighed and I weighed a hundred and forty-three pounds and I was somewhere around six feet and he says, “Yeah sure. We‟re going to organize a second team at Catholic Central this year, and I want you to play for my second team.” The second team had no relation whatever to the first team and we were playing at the practice grounds at the corner of College and Logan and one night we were scrimmaging and I was playing fullback for the second team and they finally talked Pickle into letting our second team play the first team. And so I had a good night in that practice and so some of the first team members wanted me to play guard on the first team. And Pickle wouldn‟t let me, because that would spoil his second team, and so there was quite a controversy about it and finally I was allowed to go to the first team. We played one game at Garfield Park. I remember that our singing teacher at Catholic Central at that time was Mary Agnes Douglas, a fine old lady, she probably is much younger at that time than I am now, but at least she was old to me then. And in order to get some income from the game, we sold tags which you put in your buttonholes, and I don‟t remember now how much they cost, but Miss Douglas, made a hit with all of the boys in school because she bought quite a number of those tags for the football game against Sparta at Garfield Park. Well the sad part of that game was that three or four of our players got hurt and we couldn‟t continue the rest of the season, because we didn‟t have enough able-bodied students after that to make-up a football team. Dan Mead, who was playing halfback, hurt his neck. Dan later went to M.A.C. Michigan State College and became an engineer and one of the top officers in late years of Owen, Ames and Kimball builders. And another one who got hurt was Bob Murray and I don‟t remember who the two others were. Lester Styles, who at that time was, had won national honors at Philadelphia for the Grand Rapids‟ Boat and Canoe Club, was playing tackle along side of me that game. But that was the last, first and last game of the nineteen twelve Catholic Central High School Football Team. Later on, Bill Murray, who, that‟s wrong, later on Bill Ducey, who was a, whose family, the son of Michael Ducey who was a furniture manufacturer, with a factory on Godfrey Avenue, out around Hall �14 Street, which later became the Johnson – Hanley – Johnson factory, was a student at the seminary, St. Joseph‟s Seminary and at that time St. Joseph‟s Seminary was across Sheldon Street from Catholic Central High School. And Bill was studying for the priesthood and he was short but very quick and was a fine quarterback. He later played quarterback for the Catholic Central teams of nineteen thirteen and fourteen and Bill played on the second team and the second team after I went back to it, we went on and we played Union‟s second team at John Ball Park and both Bill and I got an offer to, I can‟t remember now whether there was any money connected with the offer or just what it was, but we were offered by Mr. Dillingham, who was either the principle or the faculty manager of Union High School, some sort of scholarship or something at Union if we would transfer from Catholic Central to Union. Well the Duceys had a very large family and the Duceys were very devout as my parent were, and we had about as much chance playing for anything except the Catholic School as a snowball would in certain places that are fairly hot. At that time in nineteen thirteen, Elmer Mitchell was the coach at Union High School. Phil Holloway was our coach at, at Catholic Central and we played Union High School at Ramona Park on Saturday morning. And we had some pretty big boys on our team, but it wasn‟t real cohesive as a unit and so we would play good games and bad games. Well, the day we played Union, we played a good game and Union almost had the disaster of losing to us. And so the next year when we tried to get Union to play us in nineteen fourteen Elmer Mitchell said, “Why should I play you guys?” He says, “Your other games you play like a lot of sand lotters and you play my team and,” he says, “you knock my players out and we have injuries and so on and I‟m expected to beat you by a high score and if I don‟t, why I‟m in disgrace. I don‟t want to play you.” And what he said was true. Union was about to, Central was having an off year after it had a State Championship having beaten Muskegon a year or two before when Central had a great team headed by our sheriff of later years, Hugh Blacklock who became an all American, after having played four years at M.A.C, he went to Great Lakes and played there, while playing at Great Lakes on the service team he became All-American, a Walter Camp All-American. He later joined the Staleys, which was headed by George Halas and ultimately became the Chicago Bears. Hugh Blacklock played for the Chicago Bears until about nineteen twenty-six or twenty-seven, a matter of six or seven years. Hugh was a great player and a great person and was a real credit to professional football and to college football in Grand Rapids. Interviewer: This is a little away from, away from football, but could you tell me about the breweries in Grand Rapids and that story about how the breweries apparently had something to do with preserving part of the population. Mr. Cary: Why that matter about the health of Grand Rapids isn‟t anything that‟s original with me. It is set forth in Baxter‟s History of Grand Rapids, which in my opinion is a real history of Grand Rapids and is a wealth of information on Grand Rapids history. But John Pennell or Pennell, P-E-double N-E-double L, was an Englishman who settled in Grand Rapids about eighteen thirty-four, eighteen thirty-six and he because of the fact that at the foot of the hill on Michigan Avenue, which was then called East Bridge Street, there were springs of very pure, fine water and Mr. Pennell secured the rights to that land and that water and piped it across East Bridge Street over to the corner of Ionia and Bridge and made English Beer. What the difference is between it and the German Lager beer that I‟ll talk about, I don‟t know. And so the German migration to Grand Rapids brought with it a great number of men and families who were brewers in various provinces of Germany and one of the more prominent of these brewers was �15 Christopher Kusterer and in, sometime in the eighteen forties, I think probably about eighteen forty-nine, Christopher Kusterer bought out the stock in the business of John Pennell and whether he removed it from across the street to the southwest corner of East Bridge and Ionia or not isn‟t quite clear historically but that area was the area where the water was. And Kusterer wanted that water. And he then started making lager beer. At that time the area which was the, the part of Grand Rapids along Canal Street, along in that area was swampy and that condition also existed down around the around the area where the, the Union Railroad Station was ultimately built on Ionia at Logan or at Weston or Island as it was called previous to Weston and Oakes and Cherry in that area, was low ground and swampy. And there was, it was sort of an ague was contracted by a lot of people in the, in the Grand Rapids area. Whether it was malarial or not I‟m not quite sure, but the out it, as a result of it they contracted a certain amount of chills and shaking. Interviewer: Let‟s, let‟s just stop there for a second so I can turn the tape over, okay? [Audio recording ends at this point] Mr. Cary: I was talking about the fact that many residents of Grand Rapids suffered these chills and shaking ague that went along with it and that between the late eighteen forties and eighteen fifty-five that would be about eight years following the, the sale and brewing of lager beer. That condition was almost completely eliminated so far as Grand Rapids was concerned. Whether that‟s sound medically or not I don‟t know but if that is true, it can be well said that the Grand Rapids Brewing industry really played an important part in the public health of the city of Grand Rapids. Christopher Kusterer was a real business man. He had a good sense of, of what was a good product and the way to market it and get the people to buy it. And there were oh, I wouldn‟t know how many German brewers there were who had brewers it, in this period of the late forties and early fifties. Peter Weirich who was, an important German Businessman in that period had what was called a Michigan brewery at West Bridge and Indiana. There was the Eagle brewery which was established in eighteen seventy-six at fifty Stocking Street by Jacob Veit and Paul Rathman. The Tusch brothers had a brewery on Grandville Avenue and I think that was a little south of Wealthy Street. And then H. A. Britt had one on West Division Street and West Division was a street on the west side and its name was changed when Grand Rapids completely reversed the names of its streets and avenues and had all thoro, thoroughfares running east and west as streets and all north and south as avenues. And it was at that time that the city was geographically divided into four quadrants with Fulton Street dividing north and south and Division Street dividing east and west. And John Gessler and company had a brewery on Page Street up in the north end. Adolph Goetz, whose family was later a client of mine had a brewery at Broadway and West Leonard. And the Union Brewery was located at eighty-seven South Division Street and it was established in eighteen sixty-two by George Brandt. In eighteen eighty-eight the proprietors were Elizabeth B. Brandt and I think she is the widow of the organizer of George Brandt but I‟m not sure. And then there was George Jub, W. Brandt, he‟s the son of the original George Brandt and Julius Petersen. The Petersens had a brewery which was operating as late as nineteen twenty and their brewery was on Indiana Avenue, just south of Bridge Street, the Union Brewery at eighty-seven South Division Street was located at the southeast corner of Oakes and Division. And in the period of about nineteen oh-five to nineteen ten those premises were operated by Theodore Clark. And the Neal Cary flam, family was a customer of Theodore Clark in the summertime because when he came to deliver the beer at our �16 house, I would quite often ride with Mr. [Louis P.] Maude the driver of the truck for the rest of his finishing up the rest of his route. Later Mr. Maude was the bailiff for United States Circuit Court of Appeals Judge, Arthur W. Dennison. And later on in our lifetimes we used to talk about our deliveries many years before. Interviewer: Then the breweries, the solo breweries consolidated. Mr. Cary: Yes, Christopher Kusterer in eighteen eighty was a victim of the steamer Alpena disaster which was the loss of the Alpena on a trip from either Holland or Muskegon to Chicago or Milwaukee. And following that the, the any number of these breweries consolidated and joined up and the Grand Rapids Brewing Company was the result of that amalgamation of these various German family breweries. And prior to sometime between eighteen eighty and the publication of the Baxter History of Grand Rapids in eighteen ninety, the large red building, the home of the Grand Rapids Brewing Company was built and it was a landmark on Michigan Hill, which was formerly East Street Bridge Street for many years and until nineteen sixty-four, five or six whenever that was torn down as part of the Urban Renewal in the Grand Rapids Downtown area. Interviewer: The, the, I think you said that their beer was Silver Foam. Mr. Cary: Yes. Interviewer: And how, what, how did they market that beer around town? Then there was the story about the Branch Bank in Michigan and how breweries affected branch banking. Mr. Cary: Oh, well, it, it, it was the custom of breweries, it wasn‟t unique in Grand Rapids, but the law books have cases in which Joseph Schlitz had certain corners in certain cities which he would lease to a man who would be expected to only dispense Schlitz Beer. And there are records of breeches of that agreement and law suits over it. And there also in the Michigan records of suits by various breweries in Michigan who have the same situation and so the Grand Rapids Brewing Company bought up some of the best retail corners throughout the city of Grand Rapids. One of them was the southeast corner of Franklin and Division and off hand I, I don‟t remember any others and I haven‟t done any research on it so I, I‟m not sure of that. I‟m sure of that one but there were many more. And when prohibition came to Michigan in nineteen eighteen, the time of the First World War and the Grand Rapids Brewing Company went out of the brewing business, it went into the real estate business and sold these prominent corners in Grand Rapids to George Ellis who had a private bank, to the Grand Rapids Saving Bank, to the Kent State and they established branch banks on those corners throughout the, the, throughout the city. And those corners were used by branch banks until very modern times when the plaza and the outside area shopping districts were, came into being and so progress changes and methods of branch banking change but the brewing business was forerunner of branch banks. Interviewer: This is a, Mr. Cary: After repeal of prohibition the National trend of consumers to prefer the highly advertised national brands of beer sounded the death knell of the relatively small local breweries throughout the United States and the attempt by the Fox people of Chicago to take over the old red building of Grand Rapids Brewing Company on Michigan Avenue and Market Fox Deluxe beer succeeded for several years. But then it just couldn‟t compete with the National Advertising �17 that had to be done in order to sell beer. There are probably more money spent for television time for beer than for any other product and if you haven‟t got money to do that advertising, you lose out. As illustration, Harry Heilman who was one of the great broadcasters of radio and television broadcasting the Detroit Tiger games for many years his product was Global Beer but a….. [SIDE TWO OF TAPE TWO] ….make it in the Grand Rapids Brewing Company later followed by Fox Deluxe part of the Frank Fox family of Chicago. I was not able to make it either. And it…….not very many people now remember what that big red building was, what caused it to be there and so on yet it gracefully aged up there on the hill, but finally it was looked upon as an eye-sore and the cost of trying to maintain it in condition so that it was not a hazard as a structure that it finally felt that with the Urban Renewal it had to be torn down and when it was a historical era so far as Grand Rapids is concerned, passed out of existence. It goes back to the very early beginnings of Grand Rapids in the 1840s and its industrial life and it saddens people who have lived through a part of that period when structures of that kind were a real life blood of the community. And some place or other I think probably that the following quotation, I don‟t know whether where it‟s from is a probably a good obituary for the old Grand Rapids Brewing company building, the home of Silver Foam Beer and I quote: “Yet shall some Tribute of regret be paid when her long life hath reached its final day. Men are we and must grieve when even the shade of that which once, of that which once was great, passed away”. INDEX A D American Laundry Company · 1 B Daane, Gil · 10 Daly Family · 3 Douglas, Mary Agnes · 15 Blacklock, Hugh · 16 Burton, Senator Theodore (Ohio) · 2, 13 E Erie Canal · 2 C Cady, William · 2 Cary, Cornelius "Neal" (Father) · 2, 5 Cary, Julia A. Lynch · 1, 2 Cary, Patrick (Grandfather) · 1, 2 Catholic Central High School · 13, 14, 15 Cavanaugh Family · 9 Chinnick Saloon · 9 Clark, M.J. · 6, 7, 10 Coliseum · 5 F Fanitorium · 4 G Gaudet (movei theatre) · 8 Grand Rapids and Indiana Railroad · 1 �18 Grand Rapids Brewing Company · 17, 18 Grand Rapids Trust Company · 10 H Hines, Paul · 14 Holland, Alphonse · 14 Holloway, Phil · 15 Hoover, Jim · 11 J Jewell, Frank · 7, 11 Judson Grocery Company · 2, 6, 7 O O‟Donnell, John Hugh · 13 Oosterbaan, Benny · 14 P Peck‟s Drugstore · 5, 7, 8 Pennell, John · 16 Pipp Family · 4 Powers Opera House · 9 Q Quimby, Irving · 6, 11 K Kelvinator plant · 3 Kleinhans, Jacob · 6 Knappen, Stuart · 6 Kusterer, Christopher · 16, 17 R Reed, Ernie · 2, 13, 14 Roosevelt, Alice · 5 Roosevelt, Theodore (President) · 4 Royal, Selena · 10 L Leonard Family · 3 Lynch Family · 1, 2, 3 Lynch, Jeremiah (Grandfather) · 2, 3 Lynch, Timothy (Uncle) · 1 M Manardo, Cole · 14 Marshall, Vice President · 2, 12, 13 Massachusetts Institute of Technology (M.I.T) · 4 Maude, Louis P. · 17 Michigan Central Railroad · 2 Morrissey Family · 4 Morse, George · 6, 7 Murray Family · 13, 15 Musselman Grocery Company · 6 N Nunamaker, Leslie · 4 S Silver Foam beer · 18, 19 Smith, Senator · 7, 10, 11, 12, 13 Smith, William Alden · 5, 6, 10, 12, 13 St. Alphonsus Church · 3 St. Andrews School · 4, 5, 8, 14 T Tracy, Spencer · 10 U Union Brewery · 17 University of Michigan · 1, 11, 13, 14 W Watson, Senator (Indiana) · 12 Williams, Carroll · 13 �19 Willkie, Wendell · 12 Worden Grocery Company · 6 Wurzburg‟s Department Store · 8 Y Young, Charlie · 8, 9 Z Zupke, Robert · 14 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b61d7840d1ac70b8eba674a8eaa0c739.mp3 ee8a99f2ad5c19b3ad26c124a1407cd8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Rapids Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Heritage Hill (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Local histories Memoirs Michigan--History Oral histories (document genre) Description An account of the resource Taped and transcribed interviews conducted in the early 1970s primarily of the children and grandchildren of many of the founders of Grand Rapids, Michigan; many of whom were residents of the Heritage Hill neighborhood. Interviews were collected to develop a significant collection of oral resources that would supplement other primary and secondary local history materials. Initially funded as a private project, Grand Valley State College (now University) assumed responsibility for continuing the project until 1977. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Various Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/452">Grand Rapids oral history collection (RHC-23)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf; audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text; Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-23 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1971 - 1977 Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-23_18-19Cary Title A name given to the resource Cary, John Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Cary, John Description An account of the resource John Cary was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on October 2, 1897. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan--History Local histories Memoirs Oral histories (document genre) Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Heritage Hill (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Grand Valley State University Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf audio/mp3 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Grand Rapids oral history collection (RHC-23) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1971 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives