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Grand Valley State University Special Collections
Kent County Oral History collections, RHC-23
Mr. Lowell Blomstrom
Interviewed on 4 August 1977
Edited and indexed by Don Bryant, 2010- bryant@wellswooster.com
Tape #56 (1:06:10)

Biographical Information
Mr. Lowell Blomstrom was born on 22 March 1893 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He was the son
of Carl Herman Blomstrom and Anna A. Berglund. Mr. Blomstrom died on 4 July 1979 in East
Grand Rapids, Michigan. He married Signe M. (surname not found) about 1922. Mrs.
Blomstrom was born in 1890 in Michigan and died in Grand Rapids on 21 February 1959. Both
Lowell and Signe were buried in Greenwood Cemetery in Grand Rapids.
Carl H. Blomstrom was born in April 1867 in Lisbon, Ottawa County, Michigan. He was the son
of Carl G. Blomstrom and Elizabeth ―Elles‖ Carlson. Carl died in 1923. He married Anna A.
Berglund on 17 September 1890 in Muskegon, Michigan. Anna was born in December 1865 in
Sweden and died in 1923. Both Carl and Anna were buried in Greenwood Cemetery in Grand
Rapids.
___________
Interviewer: Lowell Blomstrom, 559 Lakeside Dr., S.E. Grand Rapids, Michigan; on the 4th day
of August, 1977.
Mr. Blomstrom and his father have been pioneers in the automobile industry for perhaps close to
seventy-five years. I‘ve asked Mr. Blomstrom to tell us a little bit about his background and why
don‘t you just start talking and tell me about your, where you were born and how long, you did
say you born in Grand Rapids? Is that correct?
Mr. Blomstrom: Oh yeah, yeah.
Interviewer: May I ask you what year?
Mr. Blomstrom: Ninety-three, eighteen ninety-three.
Interviewer: How long did you stay here?
Mr. Blomstrom: We moved to Marquette in eighteen ninety-seven, just about the time the
Spanish-American War started. And, oh did you have that on?
Interviewer: That‘s alright.

�2
Mr. Blomstrom: And father built his second automobile there. His first was built in Grand
Rapids. I have no record of that; I have pictures of course of the one in Marquette. That was
started in eighteen ninety-eight and finished in nineteen hundred. And then in nineteen one we
moved to Detroit where he started the Blomstrom Motor Company. To build the Queen car.
And...
Interviewer: May I, let me go back to Marquette for just a minute. What was the car called that
he built in Marquette?
Mr. Blomstrom: There was no name assigned to it.
Interviewer: No name assigned to it?
Mr. Blomstrom: No it was just the one car.
Interviewer: How many, how many were built?
Mr. Blomstrom: Just the one.
Interviewer: Just one
Mr. Blomstrom: Like that yeah.
Interviewer: And then you went to Detroit in nineteen one?
Mr. Blomstrom: Went to Detroit in nineteen one and he got backing from some millionaires in
Marquette. They financed it and, and they built about almost 2 thousand Queens one cylinder
first, just a few, a handful of them the first year. Then he went to a two cylinder post flat engine,
you know what we call a pancake engine. And then he made a four cylinder in nineteen six and
prices were of course quite high for those days, the four cylinder was twenty-two fifty ($2,250),
the car like the similar to the one in Grand Rapids Museum was twelve hundred dollars. And the
first original one like that one up there on that picture that was seven hundred and fifty dollars,
pardon me, seven hundred, fifty dollars. And he had trouble with his partners and he left in
nineteen six and started the Blomstrom Thirty, it was called. Thirty was horsepower based on the
formula they had at those days, the old SAE formula which we don‘t use today. England still
uses it. And they built the Blomstrom car; that was the runabout, they made a touring car. And
that was quite a car for its day. And I have one of those.
Interviewer: What year was that?
Mr. Blomstrom: That was nineteen two when the company was formed, but the first year they
made small boats, fifteen and a half foot long, selling for a hundred dollars. It was an inboard
three-quarter horse motor. And they sold thousands of those. Then he started the car in nineteen
three, one cylinder, in nineteen four he switched to two cylinders, course he made those right
through to six. The company continued on after he left but in two years it was gone.

�3
Interviewer: How many cylinders does the car have that we have in the public museum?
Mr. Blomstrom: Two cylinders,
Interviewer: That‘s two cylinders
Mr. Blomstrom: Two cylinders yeah.
Interviewer: And you say what was that built?
Mr. Blomstrom: nineteen four.
Interviewer: nineteen four.
Mr. Blomstrom: Yes and the car continued on until nineteen eight. He left in nineteen six and
then the Detroit Deluxe was put in there and backers from Marquette got the people that
designed the Willis Overland, Willis hadn‘t bought into it was Overland, in Grand Rapids or in
Toledo. And that was beautiful car and eight thousand dollar car then which was tremendous,
most beautiful car you ever saw. But they didn‘t last long. And company was sold and that‘s
where the Studebaker comes in to build a car, one of their earliest cars not the earliest but one of
the earliest.
Interviewer: I see.
Mr. Blomstrom: You know South Bend?
Interviewer: Yes.
Mr. Blomstrom: They‘re the wagon people.
Interviewer: But your father did continue in the motor car business?
Mr. Blomstrom: Well then he, he built a Rex, a small car, I don‘t see it here on these pictures; it
was a front drive car, small, they were called, what did they call them? They didn‘t call them
compact cars, that was something later that Romney, Mr. Mason, who was the head of, later on,
American Motors. Why, I don‘t recall just exactly what they called them, cycle cars, they called
them cycle, they were real small. Well that lasted a while. Then he went to Camden, New Jersey,
Grenloch just outside of Camden and built this Frontmobile. See that car here? That was a front
drive car. And in my opinion they‘re all going to go to it within the next ten years, every last car
will be a front drive, in my opinion. And then of course the war came on and they were rationed.
Everybody was rationed. General Motors, Ford and everybody. And of course you had to base on
the number of cars made in nineteen thirteen; see the war started in fourteen in Europe; it started
in sixteen for us. And the big company got zero material based there was no car built in thirteen
see, Frontmobile. And so he went to work and he made two-wheel or two front drive and four
wheel drive trucks for the government for the ordinance till their money ran out. They had a

�4
beautiful building on the Horseshoe Pike going from Philadelphia-Camden to Atlantic City. Still
there, the building and they, the money ran out so that faded out of the picture. Then he quit
making cars and he didn‘t live very long; he died quite young, fifty-six. And his name was Carl
Herman Blomstrom; in Swedish Carl of course is Charles in this country he was known as
Charlie or CHB, CH they called him in the...
Interviewer: When was he in Adrian? You mentioned before we began…
Mr. Blomstrom: Well Adrian the Lion Car was built from nineteen eight to nineteen eleven when
fire destroyed the building.
Interviewer: That was in Adrian?
Mr. Blomstrom: That was in Adrian.
Interviewer: The Lion car?
Mr. Blomstrom: yeah it was named after the Old Lion Fence Company. They were bought out
they moved to Philadelphia or where they were near the source of steel wire see. They were all
wire fences you know. And so the company that was [Fred] Postal and [Austin Elbert] Morey
who had a big cigar plant in Florida and they owned the Griswold Hotel in Detroit. Father knew
them real well. And they were directors and quite a few Adrian people were in on it, directors.
So they wanted him to design a car and come out there and build it. It was a beautiful car, there
is only one in existence in a museum out near Rushmore you know where the, in the mountain
out there in where is it the Dakotas? Somewhere? The only one in existence.
Interviewer: Yeah I know what you mean.
Mr. Blomstrom: Near Rushmore-Rapid City, South Dakota I believe it is.
Interviewer: South Dakota.
Mr. Blomstrom: Yeah I think so. I‘ve never been out there but I understand they have the only
one in existence. And I‘ve located 7 Queen cars of that 2 cylinder variety less similar to the one
in Grand Rapids museum and I‘ve got one of them of course. That‘s I found that down near
Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, in a farm yard. It‘d been out there for 50 years and the chickens were
roosting on it when I saw it at night, just at dusk you know. A fellow told me about it and I
inquired. I got it. It was fully restored; it was in the antique tours a couple years. My cousin, who
restored it, drove it in there.
Interviewer: I see. What, where do you keep it?
Mr. Blomstrom: Where did I keep it?
Interviewer: Where do you keep it?

�5
Mr. Blomstrom: Oh it‘s in the museum.
Interviewer: Oh that‘s the one in the museum?
Mr. Blomstrom: Yes, that‘s the red one in the museum. He restored it, did a beautiful job. He
won prizes at Ford, Dearborn, Milwaukee and Fremont had their centennial you know.
Interviewer: How many Queen cars were built?
Mr. Blomstrom: Close to two thousand, around two thousand. That‘s pretty good for those days.
Course Olds was the big producer you know. That was before Ford really got going, you know.
Olds was the big producer up until nineteen six, seven when Ford come out with the forerunner
of the Model-T.
Interviewer: Now the Queens were all built in Detroit, it that correct?
Mr. Blomstrom: Oh yes, yeah all from Detroit; yeah, on the west side. At the foot of Clark
Avenue right by the river. Because he leased the old Clark Dry Dock for his boats you know.
Right across the street; that there was the river.
Interviewer: What did he do after he went out of the car business?
Mr. Blomstrom: Well he and I designed a steering gear reversible, irreversible steering gear for
Ford Model-T‘s and we sold thousands of them. I had the patents and I signed to the company.
And I still have one in the basement in my store room down there. And you know the Ford was
throw it out of your hand, they‘d tip over on you the Model-T‘s. I‘ve seen them tip over. You
couldn‘t have no control, no resistance see? It was too direct. And we made, we sold thousands
of them; had a company make them for us. And we had a lock on it and it would tilt up you
know so it would get in and out easy. Then it had a Yale lock on it so you lock your steering you
couldn‘t steer, it someone broke in. Well they were all open cars in those days. Pretty near all
open cars, very few closed cars. Well I don‘t know what else
Interviewer: What did people do for protection, who rode around in those early cars didn‘t have
any tops?
Mr. Blomstrom: Well, we‘d stop of course, uh we have umbrellas still we got to a place where
we could under a tree or something which was a foolish thing to do probably in a thunderstorm.
But we had umbrellas with we had raincoats of course, dusters you know like Cravanet or what
do you call it, brown duster. Had gauntlet gloves you know went way up the elbows. But we‘d
stop at a farmhouse and go in. Usually our coil which was on the dash got wet so it had we‘d
take it in the stove and borrow their oven and light it up to dry it out cause it couldn‘t run without
the coil. So we‘d go in and we had a lot of punctures. We usually drove up to the Sparta where
my grandfather lived on the farm he was a blacksmith and it would take us two days, better part
of two days you know we only made six miles an hour. We‘d stop at Lansing or one of the

�6
Williamston out here overnight you know. Come in the next not the full day but. Take us pretty
near two days. They made father made it once one day. He left at four o‘clock in the morning
and got to Grand Rapids at three in the afternoon. The roads were, there were no roads you
know, no paved roads. The first pavement in Michigan as I recall, outside of cities, was the four
miles from Howell this way. It was a tavern there called the Four Mile House. That was the first
pavement between Detroit and Grand Rapids. That‘s Howell, Michigan coming this way four
miles; and all the rest were muddy when it rained of course they were all terrible. No they, we
had a lot of fun in those days, although we ran into a lot of troubles. Mostly tire troubles,
sometimes the tires would go twenty-five miles, sometimes three hundred, no more.
Interviewer: No more than that?
Mr. Blomstrom: No they‘d blow out. They were clincher tires you know, hooked in not straight
side like yours and mine today. They were, were clincher tires and they would get rim cuts you
know. And then they‘d get cut on the ruts on the road when they dry you know it‘s just like
emery rubbing on the tires. They‘d blow out most of the time. We had punctures of course. We
carried our own patching, rubber patching stuff; what we call cement patch, gasoline patch you
know. We cleaned them with gasoline; cut it off with the shears, a piece out of its sheet you
know rubber? Then paste it on.
Interviewer: By what year were highways as we know them today, becoming more a part of the
landscape?
Mr. Blomstrom: Well it‘s hard; I‘d have records of it of course. The first piece of pavement in
the world is claimed, was put in front of Heinz, he was a road commissioner in Wayne County,
near Detroit, which includes Detroit. He had a farm outside, near Dearborn there, and he put a
mile of concrete pavement in front of his house, the farm house, that was the first piece of
concrete road as I understand it in the United States and probably the world.
Interviewer: When was this?
Mr. Blomstrom: About nineteen…well I don‘t know exactly. That was in I would say about
nineteen ten around in there. Then the city of Detroit ordered two one mile between Six and
Seven Mile Road on Woodward Avenue. And that was ten feet wide. And they had tollgates then
you know; the farmers had to pay a toll. We had to pay a toll there was one at Six Mile, there
was one at Eight Mile, Nine Mile, one at Birmingham, what‘s Birmingham now; and then one
out by Pontiac and towards Orchard Lake. So that first mile road that was put between Six and
Seven Mile on Woodward, Palmer Park if you‘re familiar, starts at Six, and this went to Seven. It
was 10 feet wide, if you met a farmer with a load of hay coming in or something you had to get
off. Two couldn‘t pass on ten feet. So the next year they made it twelve, and the next year after
that fourteen, then you could just about pass. It was a progression of two feet per several years.
And that was the first mile pavement in the World as far as I know. And then of course it started
to come in, there wasn‘t any, I don‘t, I would say close to the first World War before there was

�7
any amount of mileage and paved roads. Course we had what I call macadam roads you know,
that‘s gravel you know. And it was all just like some of the country roads today you know,
they‘re dirt roads. There was no pavement to speak. Just that four mile from Howell this way
was the first pavement other that the cities. Leaving Detroit, when we first started coming up to
Sparta, was a plank road. And finally that got so bad that they tore it all up. That would be on
Grand River Avenue going out to Farmington. (Doorbell rings) Pardon me.
Interviewer: There now we can resume.
Mr. Blomstrom: Well I guess we completed the roads about, didn‘t we as far as you‘re
interested.
Interviewer: Yes. Let me ask you a question. When did you become associated with your father?
Mr. Blomstrom: Well I was never actually in any of the plants that he was interested in. I
associated with him in the helping designing.
Interviewer: I see.
Mr. Blomstrom: And even when I was quite young I got out some patents you know in that way
and I helped in his figuring. Cause he, he went to grade school up here by the Marmrelund
[Lutheran] Church you know where it is? [Kent City]
Interviewer: I know where it is, yes.
Mr. Blomstrom: Well, my grandparents were charter members there in eighteen sixty-five. They
met in homes you know, first. That was the first building that they had, the wooden one, it‘s a
brick building now, was built in seventy-two I believe.
Interviewer: Do you remember a family up there by the name of Bloomer?
Mr. Blomstrom: Yeah I know where they were; the Bloomer Hill which was a real hill to climb.
We used to go up and father would drive and my brother and I would each have a stick of wood
and we‘d block the wheels. Could only go a little at a time.
Interviewer: That‘s my Mother‘s family.
Mr. Blomstrom: Is that right? You know the old Bloomer Hill? Course it‘s cut down now.
Interviewer: Yeah, I don‘t really know it.
Mr. Blomstrom: Well it was a steep hill, a terribly steep hill; they took off the top and filled in
the bottom down there where Kline, not Kline, what‘s his name? I know them, the family; I
know most of the family.
Interviewer: Klenk?

�8
Mr. Blomstrom: Klenk yeah. They‘re down in the hollow, by the Bloomer Hill.
Interviewer: I see. Well my grandfather and my grandfather‘s brother kept the farm until his
death in nineteen twenty-three. His name was Abel Bloomer.
Mr. Blomstrom: Well I don‘t know any of them. I just know the association with the Bloomer
Hill.
Interviewer: Do you remember the hamlet of Lisbon?
Mr. Blomstrom: Well my father was born there
Interviewer: He really was?
Mr. Blomstrom: Yeah on the other side, he was born in Ottawa County you know that‘s the
dividing line. That‘s Ottawa Kent. And he was born there, they didn‘t have any records but he
was because my grandfather had a blacksmith‘s shop there. It was called the BlomstromGrumback. John Grumback who was the head of the printing company at one time, he was his
first cousin you know. His Grumback‘s father and my grandfather Blomstrom were partners
there. They made wagons and did steel work, forging you know.
Interviewer: How many people lived in Lisbon in those days?
Mr. Blomstrom: Well I have a book on it that published in 1879. It was the biggest town around
there except Grand Rapids, of course. It was bigger than Sparta, [which] was called Nashville
you know originally.
Interviewer: No I never knew that.
Mr. Blomstrom: Well the creek is the creek going through there over to the Rogue River you
know. And the Rogue of course runs into the Grand here near Belmont. And so this was called
Nashville. He [J. E. Nash] was the first settler there. I have pictures of his home.
Interviewer: Were you born in Grand Rapids?
Mr. Blomstrom: On the west side. Near that St. Adelbert Church, a block away, in that Polish
settlement. That‘s quite Polish. It was the old church. This is a new one. This was built in
nineteen eight. The other one faced south, this one faces west on Davis I think is the cross street.
Near McReynolds, I don‘t know. Yeah the house I was born in was the corner of Davis and
McReynolds and Third Street. You see the freeway goes through there now; it took all of the
south side of Third Street there. The house I was born in is still standing over there, on the
corner.
Interviewer: Oh really?
Mr. Blomstrom: And they moved it around the corner and built a bigger house on the corner.

�9
Interviewer: What‘s the address?
Mr. Blomstrom: I don‘t know.
Interviewer: You don‘t know.
Mr. Blomstrom: It‘s still there. I drove by there a couple of years ago and I saw the house
Interviewer: Did you get up into the northern part of the county quite a lot to see your
grandfather?
Mr. Blomstrom: Oh yeah we used to go up there every year from nineteen three on, every year
we‘d go up there. Father would leave a car for us, he‘d take a tester along so he‘d drive back see?
And he‘d leave a car for my brother and I, we drove it, it was the only car; people would come
from hundreds of miles to see the car you know. Up at grandfather‘s they had heard of the car
you know, it was quite a rarity. You didn‘t see cars; well there were only eighty-two cars in the
state of Michigan, when I started driving, in the whole state.
Interviewer: when was that?
Mr. Blomstrom: Nineteen three, yeah, there was only eighty-two...
Interviewer: You were about ten years old when you started to drive.
Mr. Blomstrom: Yeah , yeah I was ten. I‘ve been driving ever since, never been without a car.
Interviewer: What did you, what were your business associations later on?
Mr. Blomstrom: Well, of course I helped father but I didn‘t work for the companies. I got some
of the patents. He only had eighth grade, he took an ICS; you know International
Correspondence Schools? At Scranton, Pennsylvania? He took drafting, I have some of his
drawings; they‘re beautiful drawings. He took correspondence courses in engineering; he‘s got a
diploma, which I have, in mechanical engineering of the ICS schools. And he was a prolific
inventor you know what I mean? One of these fellows who comes to work every morning and
has a new idea; never stops to make a nickel you know. And, well Henry Ford is the same thing.
I don‘t give him credit for the Ford motor at all. I give it to Jim Couzens and he ran the office
you know, the money, the Senator you know later on.
Interviewer: What sort of schooling did you have?
Mr. Blomstrom: High school
Interviewer: Where was that?
Mr. Blomstrom: Western High in Detroit. There were only three high schools in Detroit. Eastern,
Western, and Central. Western burnt down there‘s over thirty now, I know a few years ago there

�10
was twenty-six, probably thirty now. There was only three, Eastern, Western, and Central. The
Western burnt down twenty some years ago; there‘s a big new building there, much bigger of
course. The building that I was in was built around nineteen hundred. I was there from nineteen
six to nineteen ten, when I graduated. And I was going to MIT in Boston. And the principal got
me free entrance without an examination because I was fairly good in mathematics- high school
mathematics and college algebra too. And that‘s really what‘s helped me in most of my jobs.
Interviewer: Did you go on to MIT?
Mr. Blomstrom: No I had what they called some kidney ailment and they said I wouldn‘t live.
One time the doctor said a week and here I am almost 85 years old, but all the doctors are gone.
And well they didn‘t know. I grew up like a weed you know. I was six foot five only weighed a
hundred and forty pounds. You know just a hardly a shadow. And I played tennis, of course
those days we were, everybody called us sissies you know playing ping-pong out on the grass
you know. And when the city wouldn‘t give us a, had any courts, public courts those days, they
gave us a space in Clark‘s park. We had a roll it and stripe it on a clay court. They gave us a
space for clay on the green court. And so it was, we were the forerunners. My partner and I who
later became treasurer of Detroit Edison Company, he died 3 years ago, we were partners. We
played doubles so much you know in those days. I played up by the net because I was tall and
could reach a lot of them, stop them from going back. I couldn‘t run, he could run, he was fast
like old Borg in Sweden now you know. And this other fellow what‘s his name? I don‘t know.
And I couldn‘t run. So we played doubles quite a lot. He had his house full of cups. He was
champion of the west side and also head of the Detroit Edison Tennis Club for years and years.
He was good. I wasn‘t. I was better at playing baseball. I used to play baseball. Not
professionally but, and I don‘t know how it was I was so thin but I had a swing, a long swing.
Boy that ball would go.
Interviewer: Were those grass courts in those days?
Mr. Blomstrom: Well we had one grass and one clay court. The city put down the clay. I guess
you‘d call it clay, it was white roll. But they put up the posts. We had to furnish the net and stripe
it. We used to have our own machine for striping. And we had to furnish the nets and keep it up.
They gave us a spot in the park. There‘s hundreds and thousands of them in Detroit now public
you know. The only ones that were public were a couple at Belle Isle and two at Waterworks
Park. We used to go there and play; I‘d drive a bunch of kids over there. But now there‘re
thousands of them. Well you‘re asking me a lot of questions about myself. I thought this was
about my father.
Interviewer: Well I‘m interested in both of you. I wanted to go on to you back to you for a
moment. You became associated with some businesses.
Mr. Blomstrom: Well the first thing I did was after I was six years after I left high school and
they said don‘t go to college, I was going to MIT as I said, principal got me in there. Ordinarily

�11
they, those days, you had to take an examination; he got me in, without an examination. And for
six years I did nothing. I‘d walk. I‘d walk downtown and back twice every day. That was ten
miles. Finally I got so I could walk ten to fifteen miles a days. I was thin but apparently I grew
too fast and I was six foot five and weighed a hundred and forty pounds. Occasionally when I‘d
take the car, I had a car father gave me. But I didn‘t do anything there for six years. Then I got a
job in a small company as a timekeeper. We had those calculagraph clocks you know you punch
a card in out on the job. And I got to running all the machines there when they were idle I‘d see
the machine idle I‘d go and run it. I had that privilege, I knew the owners, and because I‘d
learned how to run practically every machine that father had you know. He had quite a machine
shop there. And you can see some of the pictures here I think, I don‘t know there might be some
here.
Interviewer: Yes there are, I see some.
Mr. Blomstrom: Yeah there‘s lots. I have lots more besides what‘s on the wall here. In the den,
and I could run anything-gear cutter, building machine or lathe or any machine because after
school I‘d go down there and see an idle machine and I‘d go run it. And I got so I could run and I
could figure of course. The average workman, a toolmaker, or anybody working in the shop
didn‘t know mathematics. They got through grade school and had to go to work. It was a
necessity they had to. They didn‘t go to, very few people went to high school. They went up to
the eighth grade like my father did.
And of course he had the ICS course but he was an inventor. Prolific inventor I call him. Henry
Ford was the same thing. But I spent an hour with Henry Ford a year before he died. It was on
his problem of bearings out there. Of course I was with the Bearing Company then -FederalMogul. It was Federal Bearing and Bushing originally, they merged with Muzzy Lyon Company
to form Federal-Mogul, which is in existence today. It‘s a big company. A very big company.
Interviewer: How long were you with them?
Mr. Blomstrom: Thirty-seven years. I went in as Chief Tool Engineer, Tool Designer, whatever
you want to call it. And then I got to be Chief Engineer including the machinery, designing, tool
fixtures and jigs and everything like that. And also the product engineering I had both. Now it‘s
split up it‘s so big. And then I got to be Chief Engineer and then I, the last ten years, I was
consulting to the president on manufacturing and engineering. Consulting engineer.
Interviewer: Did you live in Detroit during all this period?
Mr. Blomstrom: I lived in Detroit forty years from nineteen one to nineteen forty-one. We put up
a plant in Greenville which is still there and that‘s where we put metals on the moving strip,
while it‘s moving. And those were my babies. I engineered those. It took a lot of aspirin but I got
them working. And there‘s nine of them now; five in Greenville and four in St. Johns. And
they‘re a hundred and eighty feet long. Couldn‘t powder or babbitt on moving steel, freeze the

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babbitt of course the copper lead it goes thru ovens. It‘s a hundred and eighty feet long from a
coil of steel to a fine metal ready for the press room, form it into bearings. It‘s a very fine
process. We make our own powder. That is we I said I‘m not with them now but I
mean…Federal-Mogul makes their own powder. And St. Johns and we atomized molten metal
you know, make it molten metal make powder out of it.
Interviewer: Did you retire after you worked for Federal-Mogul you said you were willing—
Mr. Blomstrom: Well, when I was sixty-five they don‘t want you anymore like General Motors,
they kick you out. That‘s the customary retirement; they‘re talking about changing it now to
sixty-eight or something else.
Interviewer: Did you come back to Grand Rapids at that time or?
Mr. Blomstrom: I came back here in fifty-five. I bought a house on Maryland. I sold that when
my wife passed away. She‘s been gone—we have no children—she‘s been gone nineteen years
now. And I leased this when it wasn‘t even half finished through this building. There were no
walls, just a framework. And they were working on the brickwork outside. I‘ve been here, one of
the first here, eight years now I‘ve been, eight or nine I guess. No, I had a house over on
Maryland near, between Michigan and Fulton.
Interviewer: Yes. Tell me more about your father, tell me more about his later years.
Mr. Blomstrom: Yeah, I was going to tell you, you asked me about what I was doing. Well then,
I worked for this little shop and got around to be the inspector there. They made tool work and
some production work. And then I went with Paige Motor Car Company it was called—it wasn‘t
called the Graham-Paige then, the Graham brothers hadn‘t bought it then—it was called PaigeDetroit [Motor Car Company]. It was near where we lived on the West Side. I went in there, and
I‘d never take a drawing lesson in my life, but I told them I was an expert gauge designer. They
wanted a gauge designer. So I got to be their chief gauge designer. I think I was about twenty-six
years old or something like that. And I got along fine. From there I went to—well I was still with
Paige when they built that big plant out on Warren near the Lincoln Motor Plant which is now
Detroit Edison shops you know, that big building on Livernois and Warren. And, Paige was a
mile further out. I don‘t know what it is now, probably Chrysler Plant or something. Well I got to
be assistant tool engineer there. We had thirty-eight in the department. I was first chief checker
then I got to be assistant to the Master Mechanic. He‘s the headman of tool engineering today,
Master Mechanic. I got to be assistant Master Mechanic.
Interviewer: Excuse me interrupting, about when was this?
Mr. Blomstrom: Well it was around the war, just after the war, the First World War
Interviewer: First World War

�13
Mr. Blomstrom: Well I‘m getting a little ahead of my story. In the First World War I went from
Paige to Lincoln Motor Car Company. They hadn‘t made a car yet, they were making their first
one. You know they made the Liberty engine, the airplane engine. They made the biggest
quantity around six thousand of ‗em. And Ford made some, Marmon made some, Cadillac made
some, Hinkley made some. But Lincoln Motor made the bulk, there were six thousand about.
Probably all the rest were about four thousand. Not a one got across to Europe you know, they
were all on the coast when the war ended.
Interviewer: I see
Mr. Blomstrom: And honest, you could buy up for a song you know. A twelve-cylinder. ----Six
separate cylinders, each one bolted. They were made of steel. And I was chief gauge inspector
there under the head of all inspection. I wasn‘t the chief in the department, I was chief gauge
inspector. So I got a lot of—And then from there I went to Paige. The war stopped you know in
November, eighteen wasn‘t it? I believe we were only in two years. The war had been on since
fourteen of course. And then I went with Paige. So it was after the war that I was there as an
assistant tool engineer for… during the Depression of twenty-one there were thirty-eight of us in
the department and during the Depression there was only three of us, the boss, myself, and the
clerk. It was a sharp drop-off just like a cliff you know. But it started coming back, in eighteen
months it was normal. But everybody was laid off except a few key people you know. But
Lincoln wanted to keep me. Mr. [ Henry M.] Leland whose, was, started as one of the founders
of the Cadillac Motor Car Company, he left to start the Lincoln. They were building the car in
the —secret room. He gave me permission to go in there. I had a key. They were building the
first car during the war there. I saw the first Lincoln. And while it was being built, as a matter-offact, I was one of the privileged to go in there. And when the war ended there you know there
was a false, on Thursday you know there was a false alarm, but we didn‘t know it was a false
alarm, that the war was ended. The following Monday it was the real thing! And Mr. Leland, I
said, I‘m leaving, I‘m leaving, there‘s nothing here to do. We just played checkers and chess you
know with thirty-six of us in that whole plant including the office. We‘d come in ten o‘clock and
go out to lunch and then we‘d come back, play some more checkers or chess and go home at
three o‘clock. We did that from November to March, so I got tired of playing checkers and chess.
So I told him. ―No‖ he says, ―we got a good job for you. We‘re going to build a car in August, by
August.‖ I said, ―Mr. Leland you can‘t tool up. It‘s going to take you a year and a half to two
years to tool up.‖ Machinery wasn‘t good for that you know, what they had for the airplane
engine. So, well I was right of course, he couldn‘t start in August, this was March see. So I left.
He begged me to come back. In the meantime you know, Ford took it over. He had a little
trouble with Wilfred Leland‘s son, Henry Leland‘s son. Leland was very nice to me; he begged
me to come back. I says no, I‘m not coming back. And then Ford got hold of me—records I
suppose there, and he kept pestering me for two or three years to .... He had me all signed up to
be at Highland Park then you know, in the head of their gauge department. In the meantime of
course, during the war there, the Bureau of Standards wanted me in Washington, which would

�14
have been good experience. But my mother was ill, my father had passed away you know. So I
didn‘t go. Well, they said, we‘ll send you to Franklin Arsenal in, near Philadelphia. I says no, I
can‘t leave Mother. Well he said, we‘ll get you closer, Rock Island Arsenal where you‘re in the
Mississippi. I said no. So they passed it up. But Ford kept writing me for years, I never went out
there.
Interviewer: What did you do after..?
Mr. Blomstrom: Well, then I went with the Bearing Company.
Interviewer: I see.
Mr. Blomstrom: I been there, I was there until I retired. That was Federal Bearing and Bushing.
They merged in, that was twenty-one. In twenty-four they merged with Muzzy-Lyons to form
Federal-Mogul. Federal was the trade name of the Federal Bronze and Mogul was the Babbitt of
Muzzy-Lyons. So they took their two trademarks and formed a corporation, Federal-Mogul.
Interviewer: In what year did your father die?
Mr. Blomstrom: Twenty-three. Mother died, he died in early spring and Mother died in the fall.
Interviewer: I see. Had he been active up to the end?
Mr. Blomstrom: Yes, yes, he was active. He was always figuring out something new you know.
Interviewer: Well, do you have some other memories about the cars that your father-there‘s one
picture there you said was shown in New York?
Mr. Blomstrom: Well that‘s these two here. That picture‘s taken at the show; that‘s the chassis
and the touring car. This is the runabout. I had one of these. Front drive car. Course they‘re quite
new. There‘ve been front cars made before; old [J. Walter] Christie made a front drive racer, the
fastest car in the world those days until Barney Oldfield came around with a Blitzen Benz.
Interviewer: What year were those cars made?
Mr. Blomstrom: Those cars?
Interviewer: Yes.
Mr. Blomstrom: Well I think that‘s in nineteen seventeen when it‘s in the show. We started
that—well I didn‘t go down there; I was home. I wasn‘t doing anything for six years. I would say
it was around sixteen or seventeen.
Interviewer: Was that show in New York in the armory?
Mr. Blomstrom: I think it was what they called a National Armory, isn‘t it, something like that?

�15
Interviewer: Well I‘ve heard they used to have shows there.
Mr. Blomstrom: Yeah, that‘s right, I think so. I‘m not that certain about it, but I would think so.
They had a couple places there they showed ‗em. I wasn‘t down there, Father of course was
there. He‘d show the Queen car he started in Chicago at the old auditorium. He‘d stay at the
Congress Hotel. The owner of the Congress Hotel and the auditorium there was this one
millionaire [in] Marquette that financed the Queen. Of course we‘d go over to Chicago we‘d
have free hotel rooms and dinners and everything was free.
Interviewer: What was his name?
Mr. Blomstrom: Well that was the Kaufman family. They were very wealthy.
Interviewer: Did they live in Marquette?
Mr. Blomstrom: Some of them did. Of course one of the family, the one that financed Father,
was the oldest one. They married wealthy. They were smart, they married wealthy people. Louie
Kaufman, one of the brothers, was in New York. He was head of the second largest bank in the
United States. What was the—what is the second largest bank? I don‘t know if it is today.
Interviewer: I can‘t answer your question.
Mr. Blomstrom: Well, City Bank is one of them now I guess. But he was head of, he was
interested in the General Motors too. He made a lot of money besides, Louie. I met him, I met
him years ago. There were several brothers, four that I knew. And they all ended up pretty
wealthy you know.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Mr. Blomstrom: They made a lot of money in copper you know. And married a lot of… Well, I
could write a book if I‘d been around to it years ago. The editor of the Detroit Free Press, he‘s
not living now, needless to say, Mr. Blomstrom, he says, you ought to write a book he says, you
know more about the automobile business that anybody I‘ve ever talked to. Well I grew up with
it and I have a good memory you know, and through Father‘s associations.
Interviewer: Clearly.
Mr. Blomstrom: And I met a lot of the people later on when I was with the Bearing Company.
Did I say I met Mr. Ford, spent an hour with him, I got along fine with him. But he gets along
fine with outsiders, but he‘s tough on the people who work for him. Very tough. He‘s a one man
show you know. Edsel of course was my age exactly. If he‘d been living he‘d be close to eightyfive now. He was very small; he‘d only come to my shoulder you know. Ford was quite tall; he
bent over in the last few years. But I got along fine with Henry Ford
Interviewer: Did you know Edsel Ford too?

�16
Mr. Blomstrom: No, I never met him personally. I saw him lots of times. And I‘ve seen the sons,
his three sons, of course, lots of times when they were kids with knee pants. They‘d walk down
Washington Boulevard and there‘d be a guard in front and back you know. When they went to
school they‘d have to have guards you know, their school Yale or wherever they went. There
was Henry the second, and Benson, and William…Clay, see. They were all their middle names.
Well Clay was. You see, Mrs. Edsel Ford was a niece of J.L. Hudson the store man you know
Interviewer: Yes.
Mr. Blomstrom: And she was a Clay, her name was Clay, so that‘s where they get the Clay.
William Clay, and of course the younger son married one of the Firestone. You know old Henry
is their grandfather. [Harvey] Firestone and [John] Burroughs you know, the botanist or
whatever he was, and [Warren G.] Harding and they went camping. I have a picture here
somewhere. That‘s the first station wagon I ever saw. Ford made one just for that trip you know.
They‘d go camping, six or seven of them you know. Ford would always pay the expense. And
Edson, Edison, Thomas Edison, was one of that group.
Interviewer: You said Burroughs, but don‘t you mean Burbank?
Mr. Blomstrom: No no, I mean Burroughs.
Interviewer: Oh Burroughs.
Mr. Blomstrom: Burbank was the—
Interviewer: You know what you‘re talking about.
Mr. Blomstrom: Yeah. He was an elderly man, quite short. I have his picture here with Ford.
And Harding was president, then they invited him. Thomas Edison. Ford would do that every
year. And he got very close to Firestone. I think that‘s the reason why Edsel‘s youngest boy
married a Firestone. He owns a football team don‘t he? The Lions?
Interviewer: Yes, I believe so.
Mr. Blomstrom: That‘s the youngest. Then there was girl in the family too, Josephine I think‘s
her name. I don‘t know exactly. I think so. She married a Ford so she didn‘t have to change her
name.
Interviewer: Another Ford family as I recall.
Mr. Blomstrom: It‘s the Ford-Alkali, Michigan Alkali, or Wyandotte Chemicals now. They were
very wealthy people. That‘s the Ford of Libbey-Owens-Ford family Toledo, the plate glass
people.
Interviewer: I see.

�17
Mr. Blomstrom: It‘s not the Ford automobile people. No connection. No connection. And that
Ford building in Detroit‘s the same way. That‘s not the Ford automobile man, that‘s the FordAlkali, I call ‗em Alkali because it was the Michigan Alkali in Wyandotte you know. Now it‘s
Wyandotte Chemicals. They make products for making glass, they supplied the elements.
There‘s a famous Ford family in Toledo, Pittsburgh plate glass and Libbey-Owens-Ford family.
That‘s a different family entirely. See Father made the cars before Ford. Well of course he made
that one. He made one here in Grand Rapids in ninety-two, but I‘ve never checked with the
newspapers if it‘s in there. He was working with the Perkins Machine shop on Front Street. They
just tore that building down, of course they‘ve been gone for years, when they made the freeway
through there. Front Street is jogged there somewheres. Then he went to Marquette in ninetyseven. Well he was quite a smart duck considering he didn‘t have any education. He had both
feet on the ground like Kettering, ―Boss‖ Kettering, Charles Kettering. He was a great fellow; I
used to go and visit him. He had both feet on the ground. They‘re so interested in developing
new things that they never stop to make any money. That is a beautiful drawing isn‘t it? I don‘t
know what I‘m going to do with that.
Interviewer: It says, The Lion Forty Power Plant.
Mr. Blomstrom: Well, that was the old SAE rating. England still uses that rating. What you do,
you square the bore, if it‘s a five inch cylinder you square it, that‘s five times five is twenty-five,
multiply by the number of cylinders four, that‘d be a hundred, divided by two and a half, that‘s
where you get forty see.
Interviewer: I see.
Mr. Blomstrom: Get it?
Interviewer: I get it.
Mr. Blomstrom: Well they still use that in England, we don‘t, we use the brake horsepower. Test
it on a brake dynamometer. Actual horsepower of course, they take off the water pump and the
generator. Actually, the horsepower‘s not what they say it is because they take off some things
that take horsepower, your water pump and your generator and that stuff. But it‘s brake
horsepower, actually torque. Testing torque. That‘s what brake horsepower is, testing torque.
Foot pounds. Well the horsepower is 33,000 foot pounds.
Interviewer: I keep thinking of things about that car in the museum. I went to see it; I think it was
yesterday afternoon, because it‘s locked up in a room there.
Mr. Blomstrom: Yeah, they had it on display two years in a glass – in the entrance to that
looking at the stars stuff. It was beautiful there. But they, they got this room, and it‘s all cluttered
up. It‘s typical of nineteen hundred. It‘s an old blacksmith shop or something.
Interviewer: How fast would that car go?

�18
Mr. Blomstrom: Thirty-five miles an hour.
Interviewer: Oh really?
Mr. Blomstrom: That‘s about all it would do.
Interviewer: Well that‘s pretty fast.
Mr. Blomstrom: We had motor, we had bicycle police, traffic cops in Detroit, on Belle Isle. They
couldn‘t catch me. They couldn‘t pedal. What they‘d do, they‘d cross the Island and catch me on
the other side. That‘s the way they‘d put their bicycles; they‘d get another cop, and they‘d put
their bicycles on the ground, and I‘d have to go out on the grass, which is not permitted. They‘d
take me over to the station, there‘s a station on Belle Isle. Been there ever since I can remember.
And get another policeman and they‘d cross the Island midway, and I‘d go way around the tip of
the island. And they‘d catch me on the other side of the island. They had their bicycles on the
road, the roads weren‘t very wide. And of course in order to go by them I‘d have to go out on the
grass, and of course they stood about each side there. So then they‘d take me over to the police
station on Belle Island, been one there ever since—still there as far as I know. Of course then I
would tell Dad. He says forget it, which I did. He knew all the judges I guess. They used to come
down and borrow the boats on Friday, go up to the flats. I knew every judge because they‘d
come down there on a Friday afternoon after court and get one of those boats and go up to the
flats. A whole bunch of judges.
Interviewer: Where were the flats located?
Mr. Blomstrom: That‘s the beginning of the St. Clair River. It‘s at the north end of Lake St.
Clair. You went through St. Clair River. The flats is the first part. It‘s swampy and islands, so
dozens of islands there. There‘s that big Indian island there, the Walpole. It‘s across from that
park where the boat used to go up to ___ park. That‘s below Algonac, see. Algonac is where Gar
[Garfield] Wood is. We built the propellers for Gar Wood‘s, all his speed boats. He had the
world‘s record until now; we‘ve gone way beyond it. This fellow out in Lake Washington in
Seattle has gone, what is it, over two hundred miles an hour I guess. Of course they‘re really not
boats anymore, they‘re practically out of the water, they‘re hydroplanes! They have steps in
them. But we built them for Gar Wood and well, he had the world‘s record, a hundred and
twenty-six miles. We built all the propellers and most of the --- tugboats we built the propellers.
We sold that to Michigan Wheel; I say we, it‘s Federal-Mogul. Michigan Wheel still makes a
Federal equipoise propeller, which we had a patent on. Most of the --- tugboats used to buy them
from us, I don‘t know if they‘re buying them from Michigan now. Michigan‘s right here in town.
Interviewer: Yes.
Mr. Blomstrom: Its part of a, I don‘t know if some corporation has bought them out.
Interviewer: Yeah. It used to be that Mr. Evenson was president of it. Charles.

�19
Mr. Blomstrom: I don‘t know. I met a lot of them when they were considering about, something
about a machine they were building for to machine the propellers, the production. Course they
use it for making patterns, I know. But they were going to make a machine to do the production,
which according to me is not according to ―Hoyle‖. It‘s not necessary. You know the pitch, the
pitch is the one turn is a pitch, like a thread. The ones we made for Gar Wood were only
seventeen inches in diameter but was twenty inch pitch. They had two of them, one going this
way and one going opposite so his boat wouldn‘t tip over, see. Like the English[man]… Kaye
Don tipped over. I watched him, I saw his boat tip right over. He got in the wave of a Gar Wood
boat that was leaving, and his propeller come out of the water, there was no resistance. And the
torque of that just took his boat, which was very light, and tipped it right over and he went in the
drink. I saw it. I was only five hundred feet away from it when it happened. Well Gar Wood was
smart, he put two propellers on, going in the opposite direction, so you didn‘t get that chance of
tipping over if the wheels went out of the water. He was smart, smart old duck. He died, didn‘t
he, a little while ago? I think so.
Interviewer: I don‘t know.
Mr. Blomstrom: He was very old. I knew him, met him. Course they had the Gar Wood... they
made that dump truck, hydraulic dump truck. We made a lot of parts for them. I knew all the
brothers. There was a bunch of brothers! There were about pretty near as many of them as the
Fisher brothers. They were seven I guess. I knew a couple of them, Ed the youngest.
Interviewer: I think you ought to write that book.
Mr. Blomstrom: Well, a lot of people have said that. I think Mr. Frankfurter said it too, and some
of the other people. I did write a book on bearings for the company. Millions of those were sent
out. It‘s a very small book. It‘s been in most of the libraries now around the country. Some
people wanted a thousand. The Ordinance Department, where is that, Fort Benning in Georgia
where they had the Ordinance? Well a major came up from there one day, I didn‘t know he was
coming, and the office wanted to see Mr. Blomstrom. The girl says, there‘s a major from Fort
Benning here. He wanted a thousand of those little books. They were just small, about Reader‘s
Digest, you could just stick it in your pocket. It was run serially in an automobile magazine for
eight months. So we give him a thousand, it didn‘t cost much. They‘re in most of the
universities, they wrote, they sent. Course now they put out a hardcover, but this was just soft
cover. But it was about probably the first small bearing book on servicing, you know taking care
of bearings, automobile engine bearings, not ball or roller bearings. So that‘s the only writing.
It‘s difficult for me to write, but I suppose I should. It‘s too late now, I guess.
Interviewer: You could always dictate it.
Mr. Blomstrom: Yeah, I bought a machine, I have a machine. I bought it for that purpose. I
haven‘t used it but once I guess, twice, but not for that purpose. I bought a machine, nothing as

�20
elaborate as your machine here. It‘s just a simple…has about the same kind of a microphone I
guess. Micro—what do you call it?
Interviewer: No, it‘s a microphone, yes.
Mr. Blomstrom: Yes, I have that. Some of them have it built right into the case. I see some of the
new ones advertised. Yeah, I have one.
Interviewer: How do you keep busy these days?
Mr. Blomstrom: Well I‘m rummaging see, getting stuff here. I‘m going to dispose of a lot of
books and things. I don‘t know what I‘m going to do with all these pictures; of course Mr.
Frankfurter would like them. I don‘t if he ever saw this; I don‘t think I had that at the museum.
These others I had at the museum for a couple years, until they moved the Queen car where it is
now.
Interviewer: I see. You said your cousin restored that car?
Mr. Blomstrom: Yeah, I think a second or third cousin.
Interviewer: Who‘s he?
Mr. Blomstrom: His name is Bloomstrom, they put too many o‘s in it. He lives in Sparta,
Michigan. He works here in Grand Rapids. He works in the furniture business - woodwork. He‘s
a young fellow, compared to me of course, he‘s about half my age. But he‘s restored a lot of
cars, for himself and for others. He does a beautiful job.
Interviewer: But you were the one who actually found it?
Mr. Blomstrom: Oh yes. Well, one of our people at the—we have a, Federal-Mogul had a plant
at Lancaster, that‘s the Amish town you know.
Interviewer: Yes.
Mr. Blomstrom: He says there‘s a Queen car over here. And this fellow had an old car, one very
rare car. Everybody down there has an old car. Every town has people who recondition old cars...
a Lancaster and Valley Forge and around Pennsylvania. So he says there‘s a Queen car over
here. Well, I says, can you find out when it‘s convenient to see it? Yeah. I‘d been looking for
one; I‘d located seven you know, which is pretty good for being that old. They run from—there‘s
this nineteen six four cylinder in Detroit, he won‘t sell it to me. He has the largest collection of
old cars in the world. The magazines say he has six hundred, he told me he has a thousand. I
believe it because they‘re in sheds. If you put up in a straight line or in a U they‘d be eight
hundred feet long and he‘s got five deep standing on the ends. So he says bring down a suit, you
know get a suit, a coverall suit. So I stopped at Sears Roebuck in Highland Park there and bought
one. The only time I ever used it, I gave it to a customer. And he says I‘ve got one of your

�21
father‘s cars. I says what is it? He says it‘s a four cylinder nineteen six Queen. Looked like a
Packard you know. There‘s a four cylinder up there and to the left, at the top, see it looks like a
Packard. Now maybe, I don‘t know who swiped who, but, they were swiping designs those days
as they are today. And everybody you‘d show that car too would say that‘s a Packard, and it was
a Queen, four cylinder. Well anyway. I got off the track.
Interviewer: Well, you were going to go look at these cars.
Mr. Blomstrom: Yeah, well, I bought that and on the way over there, he says, Mr.—we call him
Barney Pullerd, P-U-L-L-E-R-D, I guess he‘s still living. He has the largest collection of old cars
in the world. The last time he called me up here, two years ago, about seven, eight years ago he
says when you gonna write that story about your father for me? Cause he wants it you know.
Well, I says, I haven‘t got around to it. He says, I‘m gonna put up a building now, he says, and
I‘m going to show all my cars in a museum and charge like all the others are doing, Florida and
out west. I don‘t know if he‘s done it, I haven‘t talked to him for seven, eight years. He has, the
oldest car is a German eighteen ninety-seven, and all his cars are real old, I mean none of this
new stuff, twenty, thirty years, they‘re all old. From eighteen ninety-seven, I would say, to
nineteen twenty probably. He has almost every car imaginable. He‘s still looking for a Lion car. I
haven‘t told him I located one in this museum out by Rushmore. He‘s probably found out. He‘s
advertised in every…he says, that was the finest car your father built, he says, that would outrun
any car even a Stutz in those days.
Interviewer: How many Lions were built?
Mr. Blomstrom: Well I don‘t know exactly. I would say it‘s between a thousand and fifteen
hundred.
Interviewer: I see.
Mr. Blomstrom: You see, the Queen cars there were only ten a week made. It was all hand work
practically. He bought the bodies and a lot of the other axels. The axels were made by WestonMott in Flint, you know that‘s Mott, you heard-Interviewer: Yes, sure.
Mr. Blomstrom: Mott. The General Motors had more stock than anybody else outside of the
Dupont family. I met him; I saved the life of his financial secretary twice by giving him blood
you know. I had a hemolytic strep and it took me three years to come back on that. I lost seventy
pounds, I was in Harper Hospital. I gave blood side-by-side in bed to this fellow twice and saved
him. They looked all the records of the hospitals over Michigan and I was the only one who
could save this boy‘s life. You got to give him blood serum within twelve months when you
fought it off. They found my name and they got me to give him some blood and in a week he
was on his way to Arizona, and riding horseback in two weeks. The next year he got pneumonia

�22
and I gave him some more blood cause the same thing happened. I met Charlie Mott there, he
was tall as I was, six foot five. I thought he‘d give me a million bucks, but he never did. Well,
the Queen car had Weston-Mott axels front and rear; they were made in Flint. They moved from
Elmira, New York, I believe it is, somewheres in New York State, to Flint. That‘s how he got
there. And of course, General Motors bought the plant and he got stock, and he never sold his
share, he kept it, so now it‘s being sold. Well he was getting there at one time an awful lot,
several million dollars in dividends every year when it used to be two dollars or something.
Yeah, he had more stock I think than any individual, but the Dupont family probably had more
as a family.
Interviewer: Did you like Mott personally?
Mr. Blomstrom: I only met him as his secretary, financial secretary. I seen him lots of times, but
I never met him. I used to go up to Chevrolet and Buick, of course we made bearings, some of
them, for them. Not so much Buick, but one time we made forty percent of the Chevrolet until
they make their own now I guess down in Dayton Ohio, Moraine Products. I knew two of the
Chevrolet brothers, you know there were three: Gaston, Arthur, and Louie. The last time I talked
to Louie, he was assembling front drives on those twelve cars that Edsel ordered for Harry Miller
for the Indianapolis track. He wanted me to design the bearings for him, I did, which I did, they
were special. See they go up to seventy-two hundred rpm, those four cylinder Millers. Harry
Miller came to my office and he had Preston Tucker with him. He introduced me to him. Of
course the big thing, they say he designed the Tucker car. He didn‘t design that any more than I
did. He was an expediter that‘s all he was, he was no engineer, Tucker. I knew him quite well.
And I got to meet Harry Miller. We made bearings…There was five cars that were got down to
the Indianapolis track, but they had other front end troubles, steering gear trouble, none of them
finished the Ford cars. The old man didn‘t know about it I guess. They assembled them in a
building down on, West Lafayette there, about a mile from town. I was down there quite often.
Preston Tucker was a handsome fellow. He died quite young, in the forties wasn‘t it? Low
forties?
Interviewer: I think so.
Mr. Blomstrom: I talked to him over there in Chicago. They showed the car there in that big
building that Dodge ran during the war making engines. He was quite a talker. They raised a lot
of money but a lot of people lost a lot of money too. They sold a lot of stock. Anybody who
wanted to handle the car, dealer had to put down four thousand dollars I believe, something like
that. Don‘t quote me too much on that. What are you going to do with this?
Interviewer: This will go to the, well I‘m sure the museum wants a copy of it, and a copy will go
to the Grand Valley State Colleges.
Mr. Blomstrom: Are they interested in this?

�23
Interviewer: They have an oral history department.
Mr. Blomstrom: I see.
Interviewer: So, you‘ll be talking for the next few hundred years.
Mr. Blomstrom: The Swedes in Detroit, what they call the Detroit Council, Swedish Council
Incorporated, I know fifty percent of them, of course I could have been a charter member if I‘d a
stayed in Detroit. They just wrote a book last year as a project for the centennial, or was it
bicentennial isn‘t it? I have a copy here. They have quite a write-up about my father in there, and
they mention me too, and my father-in-law, he‘s right on the first page. He was one of the
founders of the Mamrelund church up here.
Interviewer: What‘s the name of the book?
Mr. Blomstrom: They Made a Difference.
Interviewer: They Made a Difference. Who published it, do you know?
Mr. Blomstrom: Aaronson, but I buy it through the friend of mine who‘s the secretary of the
Detroit Swedish Council, Signe Carlstrom I know her.
Interviewer: I presume that the local library would have a copy.
Mr. Blomstrom: I don‘t know. I bought several of the books to give to my nephews and nieces.
Of course what I was going to tell you was that it was a special project because of the king‘s visit
here. He was here last summer.
Interviwer: Yeah.
Mr. Blomstrom: Karl Gustof. Every Swedish king has got Karl Gustof in their name. That was
my grandfather‘s name, Karl Gustof Blomstrom. So they gave him several books, so my name
and my father‘s name and a lot of my relatives are in that palace in Stockholm. Well, they just
happened to put my name in, they got my father‘s write-up. In fact, this fellow that retired just
last year, the vice-chairman of General Motors Oscar Lundeen wrote it with – Jones, who was
the head of the big advertising agency there in Bloomfield Village, Bloomfield Center. Jones. I
don‘t know him, of course I know Oscar Lundeen real well. I‘ve known him since he was that
high; I knew his parents. I knew the three boys. One of them designed that Union Trust Building
downtown, Earl Lundeen.
Interviewer: Which building is that?
Mr. Blomstrom: The Union Bank and Trust.
Interviewer: Union Bank. The new building?

�24
Mr. Blomstrom: Well yeah, it‘s quite new. I don‘t know about the little building alongside, that‘s
named after the chairman isn‘t it? Frye Building.
Interviewer: Yes.
Mr. Blomstrom: But that‘s designed by Earl Lundeen. He and another fellow have a corporation
in New York City. That‘s Oscar‘s brother. There was three boys; I knew them all. There was
Edward, the youngest, Earl, and Oscar.
Interviewer: They were all in Detroit I take it?
Mr. Blomstrom: Oh yeah. Their father was the superintendent of the Detroit Screw Works and
then he went later, when he retired he went into real estate. But the boys have all done good.
Three boys. Well Oscar of course is a millionaire. He wrote this, and they start off with my
father, see, way back when designing the Queen car and building it.
Interviewer: Well we‘ve talked for about an hour I think, and I think maybe it‘s about time for
me to go home.
Mr. Blomstrom: Well if you want some more, just feel free to call up and come out.
Interviewer: I‘ll tell you, I‘ll play it back and see if I can-Mr. Blomstrom: I think it‘s too much of myself and not my father.
Interviewer: Maybe I can find that book and then read about your father and then come back and
ask you some more questions.
Mr. Blomstrom: Well it‘s just a page or two in there about him. It‘s on the first page. Of course,
they asked me last year to write about my father, but I was very miserable, I‘d been in the
hospital and I didn‘t write. They don‘t need to write to me about it anyway, all they got to do is
go the library, which they must have done because they got stuff there that I sent to the library,
word for word!
Interviewer: Thank you very, very much. I appreciate this. It‘s been a very interesting hour.
Mr. Blomstrom: Well I bore people to death talking automobiles.
Interviewer: No, not at all.
Mr. Blomstrom: I wish I was a good writer, I could write a book. I knew most of the early
people. The only one I didn‘t know was R.E. Olds, Ransom E. Olds. I know the history of the
company and all that. You see, he made the first car in Michigan, R.E. Olds, Ransom E. Olds.
That‘s his initials, R.E. O. for the REO you know.
Interviewer: Yes.

�25
Mr. Blomstrom: He quit the business you know. He was going to have cattle up north here. He
bought a ranch up here, or it‘s called a ranch. But his cronies in Lansing got him back to start the
REO. Of course it sold out long ago; the family isn‘t in it anymore. General Motors, of course—
no it‘s not, it was White, they were independent weren‘t they? There‘s White Motors and then
Diamond T Motors, and then now I guess it‘s gone. It was a good car, a big heavy car like the
old Pierce Arrow and the Locomobile. They were built like a locomobile, locomotive, heavy you
know, big heavy cars.
Interviewer: Ok.

A

G

American Motors · 3
General Motors · 3, 12, 16, 22, 24, 26
Grumback, John · 8

B
Belle Isle · 11, 19
Blomstrom Motor Company · 2
Blomstrom Thirty · 2
Blomstrom, Carl G. (Grandfather) · 6, 8, 9, 24
Blomstrom, Carl Herman (Father) · 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11,
12, 14, 15, 22, 24, 25
Bloomer Hill · 7, 8

K
Kaufman Family · 16
Kettering, Charles · 18

L

Detroit Swedish Council · 24
Dupont Family · 22, 23

Leland, Henry M. · 14
Libbey-Owens-Ford Family · 17, 18
Lincoln Motor Car Company · 13, 14
Lion car · 4, 18, 22
Lundeen Family · 24, 25

E

M

Edison, Thomas · 10, 13, 17

Miller, Harry · 23
Mott, Charlie · 22, 23

D

F
Federal-Mogul Company · 12, 15, 19, 21
Ford Motor Company · 3, 5, 10, 13, 14, 17, 18, 23
Ford, Edsel · 16, 17, 23
Ford, Henry · 10, 11
Frontmobile · 3

O
Old Lion Fence Company · 4

P
Paige Motor Car Company · 13
Pullerd, Barney · 22

�26

Q

T

Queen car · 2, 4, 5, 15, 21, 22, 23, 25

Tucker, Preston · 23

R

W

Rex (car) · 3

Weston-Mott · 22, 23
Wood, Garfield · 19, 20
Wyandotte Chemicals · 17

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Korean War
Lamar Bloss
Length of Interview (0:53:43)
(0:15) Background
Born in Munster, Indiana (0:30)
Mother had tuberculosis so he had to live with his uncle for 4 years (0:43)
Went back to live at home when he was 5 years old (0:56)
His parents had 4 children but two died during the Great Depression (1:40)
Father worked on the railroad for a living (2:00)
Went to school in a one-room school and then went to high school in Bristol, Indiana (2:35)
Was really good at book keeping and ran track in school (3:00)
When he graduated had no idea what he wanted to do; worked in paper mill with brother (5:05)
Next he worked as a chemist making citric acid out of corn syrup (5:45)
Next he worked for city of Elkhart, Indiana monitoring pollution of the river (7:35)
Met his wife Betty at a restaurant at age 16 and they got married (9:15)
Married for 3 years before he went into the service and had kids after he got out of service (9:36)
(9:39) Training
Sent to Fort Riley, Kansas for basic training after he was drafted (9:44)
Didn’t have any trouble with training, he was probably one of the oldest guys there (10:27)
Cross country and track running helped him through basic training (10:51)
Not given a specific job, told to do what he could to help out (10:55)
Got to spend Christmas with his family and then on New Year’s he was sent to Korea (11:01)
(11:10) Active Duty
On the fourth day of him being there he was told to take over an enemy position (11:15)
Was able to bring 5 men with him so he picked the ones that he trusted most (11:26)
Did this with only 4 days of training when he was supposed to have 2 weeks (12:28)
Put in position of leadership as a private; didn’t order anything that he wouldn’t do (13:17)
Was doing private first class work as a private (13:30)
He and the group of 5 men were in charge of taking Pork-chop hill (14:30)
While trying to take the hill he experienced hand to hand combat, but kept fighting (15:06)
Believes that hunting as a child helped him in combat when firing weapons (15:45)
During first year and half he was there they captured 3 hills: Baldi, Porkchop, &amp; T-bone (17:04)
While in the field they survived on K rations: potatoes, eggs, fresh vegetables (18:35)
Did everything they could to keep men safe; still some were killed and injured (19:25)
Mostly concerned with getting the job done and getting the hell out of there (19:55)
Insisted on taking communion from military chaplain before going up the hill (20:29)
During active duty he got 2 weeks of rest time and he stayed at British embassy in China (21:02)
While Lamar was deployed his wife stayed with her mother and father (22:15)

�(22:41) Graves Registration
The next duty he was put on was Grave registration services (22:41)
This involved retrieving the dead bodies of fallen soldiers and preparing them for burial (23:30)
Drove truck and collected bodies with stretchers and brought them back to the morgue (24:33)
He was the only soldier allowed to go into the morgue (25:30)
Hardest thing he had to do was take all personal affects off the dead bodies (25:57)
Next sent to the third division for a couple of months; didn’t know where to put him (26:51)
Told to start a store where the troops could spend their money (27:30)
Drove into town and bought anything that he could: cameras, watches, food (27:55)
Did this job for the rest of his service in Korea 8 months (28:25)
Became good friends with a man names Wiley Brookshire while running store (28:30)
Wiley Brookshire now owns the stores all over the state of Texas (30:09)
He was asked by Wiley to drive trucks for the his stores; but he declined (31:04)
Thought that Korean people were more intelligent than other countries (31:53)
What he did during service wasn’t what he wanted to do, but what he had to do (35:00)
(35:01) Post Service
After he was discharged he was sent back to the United States by ship (35:06)
Went from Korea, to Washington State, then to hospital in Chicago (35:36)
While swimming in Korea he got an ear infection and had to go to hospital in Chicago (35:51)
Took train from Chicago to Indiana and went home to his wife (36:22)
After he got out of the service he had a son and a daughter with his wife (37:28)
While serving his wife had a boyfriend and 2 children; but they never got divorced (39:00)
Received GI Bill for being in the military; used it to go to school as an X-Ray technician (45:05)
While in service he injured the tendons in his hand and he got surgery in Washington (47:15)
Currently seeing a Military Psychologist for Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (48:06)
Have lived in the Grand Rapids Veteran’s Home for 20 years (49:01)
Didn’t join any veterans groups because he tried to forget everything that happened (50:10)
Being in the military has greatly impacted his life and he wouldn’t change a thing (52:01)
Received 3 bronze stars for his military service in Korea (52:46)
The military wanted him to stay in service and become a 2nd lieutenant (53:25)

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Veterans History Project
Keith Blough
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Pre-Enlistment
• Born August 28, 1925 (0:20)
• Born south of Freeport, MI (0:38)
• Attended Freeport High School (0:45)
Enlistment
• Drafted in to the Navy in November of 1943 (1:15)
• Had a lot of confusion during his first days in the service (1:50)
• Went to Farragut, Idaho for boot camp (2:20)
• Did not think that boot camp was all that difficult (2:35)
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• People entertained themselves by movies, which were traded with other ships
(6:00)
• Also played cards (6:15)
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Post Enlistment
• Visited family when he got home, and had a job waiting for him (8:20)
• Went to electronics school in Detroit, MI (8:40)
• Belonged to VFW for several years, but does not currently (9:00)
• Was an electrician after the war (9:20)
• Found out many things about all branches of the service because they carried
them on his ships (10:00)

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Interviewee’s Name: Lloyd Blough
Name of War: World War II
Length of Interview: (00:36:53)
(00:05) Background Information





Lloyd was born on August 25, 1915 in Michigan
He had 1 sister and 4 brothers and went to school through 8th grade
Lloyd was drafted into the Army when he was 26 years old in 1941
He was already married and in the service by the time Pearl Harbor was attacked

(2:00) Airplane Mechanic
 Lloyd went through basic training at Fort Custer in Battle Creek, Michigan
 He was transferred to Virginia 2 weeks after Pearl Harbor was attacked where he went
through advanced training to become an airplane mechanic, working on P-39s
 The men would work on about 24 different planes a day and then they would all be flown
out at once
(6:30) Africa
 Lloyd was sent to Africa in August on 1942
 While in Africa there was always sand getting into the plane engines, which they would
have to constantly clean out and maintain
 Lloyd invented a piece to cover the engine that would prevent sand from getting in the air
intake
 They were working with Spitfires and P-51 Mustangs
 The Spitfires were British planes and hard to work on with American tools
 Lloyd traveled to Algeria, Tunisia, France, Italy, and Ireland
(13:55) Leaving Europe
 Once Italy surrendered the Americans were taking many Italian POWs
 They preferred to go with the Americans because the Germans would have killed them
 Many of them were starving and they really liked the food the American men had
 Lloyd spent 2 years overseas before he was sent out back to the US on a 2 week boat trip
 He served in New Mexico later and spent a total of 4 years in the service
(24:30) Average Days
 Lloyd made many friends while in the Army and worked next to a few good friends the
entire time he was in the service

�


He worked with 24 different mechanics, each of whom was assigned to one particular
plane and also had an assistant
While overseas Lloyd sent many letters to his wife and family and the letters were always
censored

�</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
David C. Bloye
Cold War
1 hour 29 seconds
(00:00:20) Early Life
-Born on September 2, 1940, in Grand Rapids, Michigan
-Grew up in Grand Rapids
-Father worked as an accountant and as a project manager
-Mother was a housewife
-He had three younger brothers
-Attended Godwin Heights Public Schools from kindergarten through senior year of high school
-Graduated in June 1958
(00:01:16) Enlisting in the Navy Reserve
-Enlisted in the Navy Reserve in September 1957
-Needed his parents’ permission to enlist because he was 17
-Enlisted in the “2 by 2 by 2” program
-Two years of active reserve
-Meeting at the reserve center once a week
-Two years of active duty
-Serving on a base or on a ship
-Two years of inactive reserve
-Don’t have to report for duty unless necessary
(00:02:24) Active Reserve Duty
-Started his active reserve duty while still in high school
-Doing classroom work at the reserve center in downtown Grand Rapids
-Military courtesies, uniform protocol, shipboard duties, terminology, etc.
-Did two weeks of basic training at Great Lakes Naval Station, Illinois
-Summer after graduating from high school
-Took a train to Chicago and a commuter train to the base
-Continuation of classroom work
-Did firefighting courses and his swim qualification test
-Returned to Grand Rapids
-Studied at Grand Rapids Community College for the fall semester of 1958
-Went to the reserve center on Wednesday nights
(00:04:50) Active Duty
-Decided to go on active duty in early 1959
-Reported for his active duty on March 17, 1959
-Flew to Philadelphia and reported to the receiving station
-Interviewed by a classifier to see what he was qualified to do and what he wanted to do
-He wanted to go to Electrician’s School
-Waited for orders for three weeks
(00:06:00) Joining the USS Norfolk (DL-1)
-His orders were to join the crew of the USS Norfolk, a destroyer leader
-There was no opening for Electrician’s School and he couldn’t stay at the receiving station
-Went to Norfolk, Virginia, then to Portsmouth, Virginia where the ship was in dry dock
-In dry dock until early April 1959

�-Went out on a shakedown cruise
-Figuring out if the ship needed further repairs
-He got seasick crossing the Chesapeake Bay as well as other new sailors
(00:08:22) West Coast Voyage &amp; Anti-Submarine Exercises
-After the shakedown cruise they departed for the West Coast
-Going there to do exercises with the new ASROC (Anti-Submarine Rocket) system
-Took a week to sail from Norfolk to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba
-Spent the weekend there
-Took another week to get to the Panama Canal
-Spent the weekend at Rodman Naval Station
-Went through the Panama Canal and anchored off the coast of Acapulco, Mexico
-Sailed up to Long Beach, California, for the weapons test
-Had civilian technicians on board to see the test
-Operated off the coast of Long Beach during the summer of 1959
(00:10:09) Duties on the USS Norfolk
-He was assigned to a deck division
-Maintaining the weather deck of the ship
-Making sure the winches are functional, chipping paint, and painting the ship
-He was assigned to mess cooking duty for three months
-Clearing dishes, cleaning dishes, and cleaning the mess deck
-Returned to deck division then got assigned for more mess cooking duty
(00:12:07) Operating in the Caribbean Sea
-After operating near California the ship returned to Norfolk for one month
-Sailed down to Key West, Florida, in mid-October 1959
-Working with American submarines with the ASROC system
-Able to be on deck to watch test-firings of the missiles
-At sea for a week then pulled into San Juan, Puerto Rico for the weekend
-Went to sea for another week then spent the weekend at St. Thomas, US Virgin Islands
-Anchored off shore there because the ship was too big to go into a harbor
-Went to shore in a longboat
-Remembers the water was so clear he could see 50 feet down
-From St. Thomas they sailed back to Key West
-Did that triangle from November 1959 to the spring of 1960
-Got two weeks off at Christmas
-Went to sea few times during the spring and summer of 1960
(00:15:39) NATO Exercise
-In early fall the Norfolk participated in a NATO exercise in the North Atlantic, above the Arctic Circle
-Did anti-submarine exercises in the United Kingdom – Iceland Gap
-Keeping Soviet submarines from entering that waterway
-Remembers fog so thick that he couldn’t see the ends of the ship
-Sky was green, water was green, and it was eerily quiet
-Didn’t have contact with any of the sailors from other NATO forces
(00:18:37) Visiting England
-Pulled into Portsmouth, England, for a break after the NATO exercise
-Saw the HMS Victory
-Lord Nelson’s flagship in the Battle of Trafalgar and now a museum ship
-Took a tour of the ship
-Took a three-day tour of London
-Saw Piccadilly Circus, Nelson Monument, Scotland Yard, Buckingham Palace, St. James Park

�-Fascinating to finally see the places he’d read about in history and literature
-Rode on London’s subway system, the Tube
-Saw 221B Baker Street, the address of the fictional detective Sherlock Holmes
-Visited the original Madame Tussauds wax museum
(00:22:00) End of Active Duty
-Left Portsmouth and returned to Norfolk, Virginia
-Arrived in late November
-Never went to sea again
-Did maintenance work on the ship
-Hitchhiked home for Christmas leave
-Got a ride to US 31 Exit and got off there at 3 or 4 a.m.
-No traffic and it was -20oF which resulted in him getting frostbite on the ears
-A trucker picked him up and brought him to Grand Rapids
-After seeing his family he went to St. Mary’s Hospital for frostbite treatment
-After Christmas leave he returned to Norfolk
-Sent to Portsmouth Naval Hospital for six more days of recovery
-Once he got out of the hospital he had two weeks of active duty left
-Given light duty on the ship
-On January 19, 1961, his active duty ended
-Went to Naval Air Station Anacostia
-Snowstorm prevented flights or taking a Greyhound bus
-Decided to take a train back to Michigan and got off at Detroit
-Hitchhiked to Grand Rapids
(00:28:45) Civilian Life &amp; Inactive Reserve
-By Monday morning he was back in civilian clothes and at Grand Rapids Community College
-Still had to do two years of service in inactive reserve
-Reported to the reserve center to let them know he was back
-No longer obligated to report for meetings or training
-Transferred to Western Michigan University
-Worked as a switchboard operator in his dorm
-Student taught at Kelloggsville High School in Kelloggsville, Michigan
-Graduated from WMU with a teaching degree with a focus on history and geography
-Got a job at Kelloggsville High School
-Started working there in September 1964 as a teacher for senior year students
-He was a 24 year old teaching 17 and 18 year old students
-Taught there for 32 years
-Retired from the same room he student-taught in
-Second part of his Navy career happened concurrently with his teaching career
(00:32:20) Cuban Missile Crisis &amp; Berlin Wall
-In October 1962 he was sitting in the student commons when he learned of the Cuban Missile Crisis
-Heard about reserve forces being called to action in the event of war
-He was concerned that he would be called to duty, but it never happened
-Wasn’t concerned when the Berlin Wall went up in August 1961
-Mostly a land-based operation and it wasn’t aggressive like the Cuban Missile Crisis
-He wasn’t too concerned when the Cuban Missile Crisis happened
-If they had called him he would have gone
(00:34:25) Reenlisting in the Navy Reserve
-In March 1974 he reenlisted in the Navy Reserve
-In September 1972 the school hired a new counselor

�-He was an officer in the Army Reserve and befriended Dave
-Dave learned that this officer had received a “direct commission”
-Applying to be an officer without going through the regular process
-Officer Candidate School or an academy
-Interested him, and decided to research the Navy’s process for that
-Dave took an Officer Qualification Test and passed it
-Applied for a position in Naval Intelligence
-Had a master’s degree in history from Michigan State University
-He was 34 years old (a little older than the usual 32, or 33 year old candidate)
-He was accepted for a direct commission and was made a lieutenant junior grade
-One rank higher than the lowest commissioned rank of ensign
(00:38:38) Intelligence Service
-In March 1974 he reported to Selfridge Air National Guard Base, Michigan
-Joined a Navy Intelligence unit operating out of that base
-There were two other intelligence units on base
-Reported for duty one night per week, and one weekend per month
-Did two weeks of active duty each year
-Alternated between doing intelligence tasks or getting intelligence training each year
-Basic intelligence, to advanced, to anti-submarine and anti-aircraft
-Navy started to experiment with computers during his time in the Reserve
-He was in Reserve Intelligence Area 11
-Southeast Michigan, northern Ohio, northwest Pennsylvania, and upstate New York
(00:41:26) Vietnam War &amp; Social Changes in the 1960s
-He wasn’t going to be called up for service during the Vietnam War
-He was 4A (prior military service)
-Got married in 1965
-Working as a teacher
-Watched the Vietnam War on the nightly news
-Personal to him, because four of his students were killed in action
-In later years he had another student killed in action in the 1983 Beirut terrorist attack
-Saw social changes happen in the classroom
-Dress codes became more relaxed
-Less order and less discipline from students
(00:45:24) End of Navy Reserve Career
-Became a commanding officer of a unit in August 1994
-Commander of a small intelligence unit of 25 officers and 20 – 25 enlisted men
-Retired from the Navy Reserve on July 1, 1996
-Retired from teaching on the same day
(00:46:33) Gulf War
-He applied for active duty during the Gulf War, but was denied
-Too old and at the time he was doing more work in administration than analysis
-Feels it would have been an interesting and enjoyable experience
(00:48:00) End of the Cold War
-In his position, the imminent collapse of the Soviet Union was not visible
-More of an economic and political collapse than a military one
-Common perception is that the United States outspent the Soviet Union
-They couldn’t keep up militarily or civilly
(00:49:40) Intelligence Information
-In intelligence the sources tended to be more sensitive than the information

�-There was a quick turnaround when it came to classified information
-Sometimes classified information he had on his desk was in the news a week later
(00:50:30) Teaching Career &amp; Navy Career
-He did his two weeks of active duty individually and scheduled it for the summer
-This meant there was no conflict with his teaching job
-His one weekend a month happened on the weekend, so no conflict there either
-He only had to take off work once or twice during his time in the Reserve
-District never objected to that or punished him with removal of benefits during active duty
-It would have been a bureaucratic nightmare anyway
-His two careers worked well together
(00:52:13) Reflections on Service
-He is satisfied with serving his country
-His time on active duty, from 1959 to 1961, was a great social experience for him
-Meeting and working with minorities and citizens from other parts of the country
-Taught him organization and self-reliance
-His time in the Navy Reserve was a special time
-Getting recognized for his work
-Culminated in his being promoted to commander of an intelligence unit
-Working with a variety of men from different employment backgrounds
-Professionals, tradesmen, police, and factory workers
-Enlightening and fun to talk with them
-Nice to talk to people who did something other than teach
-Made a lot of his friends during his time in the Navy Reserve that became like family
-Still meets with them once a year as a kind of informal reunion

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Boring, Frank</text>
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                    <text>BLUE LAKE TOWNSHI
KALKASKA COUNT
MASTERPLAN OF DEVELOPMENT
1988 - 2013

BLUE LAKE TOWNSHIP PLANNING
AND ZONING COMMISSION
DECEMBER 15, 1988

I

�LIST OF TOWNSHIP OFFICIALS

TOWNSHI P BOARD
SUPERVI SOR---------------------------------RICHARD VIERACKER
CLERK --------------------------------------f.II NNI E KENEL
TREASURER.----------------------------------SUSAH GRI MM
Tl.USTEE------------------------------------WILLIAM BABBIT T
TRUSTEE------------------------------------JEFFREY DI RO SA
COHSTABLE----------------------------------DSXN I S QUAST

CIIAIRFUL:,f-----------------------------------LOU I S :WCQUE
VI CE C:IAIRMAN- - - - --- -- - -- -- --- ---- --- -- --- - :SD\'/ ARD DnOGOSCH
S7CRETARY ----------------------------------TEREASA SCCTT

K3~3FR-------------------------------------LOI S HALL
rfi:Sl'rnE:1 --- -- -- ---- -- ----- -- -- --- - -- -- -- -- -

-- HIOGENE WEIT:2

1-iEEBEl.-------------------------------------FLOYD P:SRKINS

zmn:-m ADMH;I ST RAT OR - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --- -- - ~I CHARD VI ERACKER
BOARD OF REVIEW
AC1'L;G c=rAI~r1xr----------------------- - --- :·,3m,mrD CI COTT};
M"Si½TBl. --- - --------------------------------LLOYD BEJiB~
I'.'"EViI33R ------------------------------------- STA:,:LEY i'JAR.D
SEORE·II:ARY - -- -- -- - - -- - -- -- -- ----- -- -- -- -- ---RI CHARD

VI ER.L\. CKEl.
( SUPS:::tVISO:t )

ZONING BOA"'.1D OF APPEALS
CHAIRM.AN-----------------------------------'SD\JARD D:tOGOSCH
r,;3MB-..;R-------------------------------------EDMUND CI COTTE
I-'.1Ei-iBEl.--- - -- --- -- ---- - --- - ---- -- -- ---- -- -- - JOEN WE I BL E

II

�Table of' Contents
List of' Township Of'ficials ----------------------------

ll

Table of' Contents-------------------------------------

Ill

Latte-r of' Submission----------------------------------

1V

Title Page--------------------------------------------

1

introduction------------------------------------------

~

Resource Material ------------------ · ------------------

4

Maps

Topographie ---------------------------------

;&gt;-A

Zoning--------------------------------------

j-B

State Forest-------------------------------

~-C

Roads. --------------------------------- ------ .:5'-D
Soi1s ---------------------------------------

~~~

MineraJL Resourees ---------------------------

5-F

Goals and Obje·ctives ---------------------------------

6

Land Use ~1an ----------------------------------------

9

Popula.tion ----------------------------------

1 tr

Recreation----------------------------------

12

Residential.---------------------------------

13

Transportation------------------------------

14

Community Facilities------------------------

20

Schools---------------------------

21

Poliea Protection-----------------

22

Fire Prote,ction -------------------

23

Utilities-------------------------

2~

List of' Township Subdivis·ions. -------------------------

27(

ill

�December 15, 1988
Blue Lake Tovmship Board
Blue Lake Township, Kalkaska County
Kalkaska, r-1ichigan 49646

Dear Board Members:
It is with pleasure that we hereby submit to the Blue Lake
Township Board this updated "Easter Plan of Development for
Blue Lake Township, Kalkaska County.• It has been under prep:i;_tration since March ,1988 when the Blue Lake Township Planning

Commission began meeting in workshop sessions every two

weeks. It provides a basis on which sound development
decisions can be reached over the next twenty-five years.
The cooperation of the Township officials and other citizens
who have participated in the discussions and writine of the
plan is sincerely appreciated. It is regrettable that more
people did not participate.

The r-:.aster Plan of Development must be reviewed and revised
again periodically so it may rei'lect changing conditions
and public policies as this plan did to the original plan
drawn up in October,1975 .

Sincerely Submitted
Threasa Scott
Blue Lake To1,1mship
Planning Commission

IV

�11

THE MASTER PLAN"
BLUE LAKE TOWNSHIP
KALKASKA COUNTY
1988 -2013

1

�INTRODUCTION

THE MASTER PLAN
To gain the support for a Master Plan of Development, it is of
greatest importance that the general public understand what a Master
Plan really is.
It is the result of a careful examination of the physical, social
and economic coniditions of the community.
It is a guide, as seen at the present time, to the future growth and
development of Blue Lake Township.
The Master Plan attempts to express the ideal situation in terms of
existing condition, growth possibilities and accepted planning procedures. At the present time it is necessary for the plan to be flexible
enough to allow for changing future conditions so that new demands
f_pr services can be met by the community. It is not, therefore, a
rigid, unflexible, unalterable blue-print for the future development
to be follovred in spite of whatever may happen in the future. Its
£unction is to aid in furtherin g the general welfare of the people
of Blue Lake Township.

PREPARATION AUD CONT:\OLS
The basic resposibili ty for the development of' a r,:aster Plan of
Development is given to the Planning Commission of the township by
Act 168 of the Public Acts of the Michigan State Legislative, 1959.
The Planning Commission for Blue Lake Township has given much time and
effort in developing this plan without any thought of compensation,
but it is hoped that the people of the community will accept it as
a plan only and not as an accomplished fact.
2

�Community ~lanning is actually controlled by the voters of the
township through the election of township officers and their
power of recall. In puttine into effect the recommendation of
community planning, the tovmship board is the final authority.
The Planning Commission only recommends but does so ·.based on
the study of facts and t~eir analysis. It is of great importance
then, that property ovmers and especially resident registered
voters attend meetings -of the Tm,mship :Soard where they may
become informed of the plans as they develop and express their
opinions of pr9posed changes before the changes are actually made.

WHY COMViUNITY PLAl:NHTG?
Cor&lt;rNUNITY PLArTI:TIHG d:.si,t0riderned with the solving of existing,
foreseen and even unforeseen physical, social and economic conditions of the community. Its aim is to gain the most agreeable and
harmonious state of affairs possible among these factors. Early
planning can prevent duplication of effort and avoid competition
for land and funds, both:-of which in this township are in short
supply. Even more important, community planning can influence
the stabilization, conservation and improvemet~ of private property
in the township as well as it's natural resources.

To be most effective, the Master Plan must have the joint partic ...
ipation of property owners, the Township Board and its appointive
officials, and the Planning Commission.

3

�RESOURCE MATERIAL

Much time and effort have been spent by the Blue Lake Township
Planning Commission in preparing and collecting maps and other
information needed for developing a Master Plan for Blue Lake
Township. Listed below are some of those materials that are
presently available.

TOPOG~APIIICAL MAP ( S:SE PAGE 5-A )

This map drawn four inches to the mile, shows the distance above
sea level of the various lakes and high lands in the different parts
of the township, with their slopes shown in steps of 3 meters
(a.,ppr0x:Lma te~y 10 ft.) in elevation. Since so much of the use and
development of the land in the township is influenced by the topo:- .
graphical characteristics,this map was chosen as the basis map
for planning.

ZONHW MAP (PAG:2 5-B)

The last completely revised zoning ordinance was May 13, 1976.
Some revisions have been made since, but the zoning map indicates
fivemajor categories of zoning.(See legend code at bottom of map.)

4

�STATE FOREST MAP( SEE PAGE 5-C)
Approximately eighty-five(85) percent of the land in the township is
owned by the state and is shown as state forest lands. This only leaves
fifteen(15) percent over which the Planning Commission, through the ~ownship Board, can have any control. Also, a quick reference to the zoning
map and state forest map quickly impresses on anyone that the 15 percent
of the land we can control is fairly well developed, especially lakeshore
and residential. The majority of residential and lakeshore development
is ovmed by property ovmers from dm·m state who use these properties as
vacation residences •

.~WADS I-:AP ( S3E PAG3 5... D)
This map has been supplied by the Kalkaska County Road Commission. It
shows the trails as legal roads over \•rhich the county has control and on
which the commission does maintenance work. As we continue to eain more
full time residents, mostly throu~h retirement, demands for similar
service will be demanded on the many private roads servicints residential
and lakeshore districts.

SOILS i··IAP ( SK~ PAGE 5-E)
This map represents the latest updated nap by the U.S. Department of
Agri culture. There is one currently plan_ned to be released in a couple
of years. Since the beauty of the area is one of our greatest assets,
this map will be very valuable in the study of tt.e toVlnship.

I,a:-TERAL RESOU:'.lCES :r.L~P ( s2:r. PAG3 5-F)

With the many oil and gas wells in the township, and since there is so
much land in the tovmship under control of the state, the township should
be aware of what is being done. We received this map from DHrt. Geology
Division in Roscommon. There are lists produced out of Lansing which show
permits issued in the pre~iou~ six months. By updating the map the town- ,
ship can be aware of where oil and gas activity is taking place.

5

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LEGEND
FOREST &amp; RECREATION
AGRICULTURAL
LAKE SHORE
COMMERCIAL
RESIDENTIAL

�T. 2 8 N . - R . 5 W. 289

BLUE LAKE

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�GOALS AND OBJECTIVES

Ak study of the demographics based on the analysis of voter regis:tatioti.·

shows that our population has grown from 99 voters in 1970 to 248 voters
in 1975 to 322 registered voters in 1988. Jv:uch of this t;rowth in permanent residents comes in the 51 and over age group made up of retirees.
Of course, most residences and Lakeshore residences are owned by downstate
or out of state property owners who use these residences as vacation
houses and second homes. There are well over 1000 properties in this
category. It is the consensus of the Planning Commission that both
categories of property owners were attracted to the area because of the
beauty of its lakes and solitude of state forest. l'ilany who are using
these homes as second h omes, may make them thei)r principil.e ;r:-esidence
upon retiring because of this Quality of life. This explains why there
has been no tremendous building boom to accompany the growth in permanent
residents as we had, e specially durinp; the :1970's. Viany part time
residents plan the same kind of evolution upon their retirement. The
main attraction az;ain being the quality of life offered by our beautiful,
forest,lakes and hills. It is therefore important that the Planning
Commission do all they can to prevent uncontrolled e;rowth in the i'uture
so we don't lose everything that attracted people to the area in the
first place. :-o grov,th to slow-growth may be the logical policy to
follow as people in California are discovering after their :period of
uncontrolled growth has ruined their environment. To increase the tax
base by exploiting jobs and other commercial develppment should not be
our main objective. Other development, such as resorts, condominiums
and other multi-housing development, like\'lise may not be the direction
we should go if the main objective is to preserve the environment we
have and enjoy now.
6

�People here today appear to prefer a more independent life,-. style and
until population increases substantially ~ill not justify the
development of new services such as public facilities, shopping and
service areas. Vith the above in mind the people of Blue Lake Township should take imaginative and constructive steps in building the
future form of the tm,mship.

SOCIAL GOALS

To provide for regulatory measures to safeguard the township from
the pollution of its lakes and streams. This will improve the township as a place to live by making a more healthful, safe, pleasant,
satisfyine; and attractive area in which to live.

3.E SID~:-~TIAL GOALS

To provide protection for housing in residential and lakeshore zoned
district and to prevent undesirable enterprises from moving into
these areas. To strictly enforce the zoning ordinance so new housing
will, at least, meet the minimum standards for size, space, health
and safety, population density and cleanliness. To protect zoned
residential and lakeshore district from unnecessary through traffic.
To take advantage of the hilly land, the many beautiful lakes, and
the _forests, in developing attractive homesites for present and
future resia.ents of the township.

CQ!:;J.'IB3.CIAL AED

nmu ST:3.L\.L

GOALS

To promote land :thich will support Goods and services at convenient
1

locations in the Tovmship, when and if needed.

7

�TRAl'TSPORTATION GOALS
To promote an overall network of roads which would make possible
a free and easy circulation of traffic and to set up a schedule
of priorities for thier improvement.

REC:::l..-SATIO:~AL GOALS
To preserve the hills, lakes, streams and forest for desirable
recreational activities.
To continue the effort of reducine the amount of pnosphorus and
nitrates in the lakes and thus extend their lives for recreational
purposes. To provide for a variety of recreation ,-ri thin· the
tm·mship. Some township owned land could be developed into park
or parks with tennis courts, shuffle board, walking or running
track and other recreational pursuits for people of all ages.
The park could become a meeting place for the community for
such activities as band concerts, firemen picnics,etc.

8

�L~rn USE PLA~·;

Th·e land use plan is a proposal for the future use of the
land in :Blue Lake Township and the buildings that have been
or· may be built opon it.
Since eighty-five(85) percent of the land in Blue Lake
Township is state controlled, it is all the more necessary
for the township to :plan use, in detail, so the :people of the
township vlill be in a position vrhere needed development can
be controlled by the township and not by outside interest.
The land resource .' i:1ve:ntory map should be a valuable aicl in
oakin8 decisions i~ • any areas.

9

�P0PULATI0H
Hm·, the land use is planned should first of all be determined by , study
of the people who will be affected. ~ho, then, are the people who own or
will m·m property in IUue Lake Township and what is their purpose in
holding title to land here? Using the voter registration list of the
tovmship, it is found that there \'Jere on June 30, 1988, 322 registered
voters compared to 248 in 1975, which represents a growth of 28.8~;.
It is interesting that the people 51 and over make up 60. 55~1/:of the total
in 1988 versus 61. 3~; in 1975. Also interesting, was the fact that within
the 51 and over re[:istrants, a la:£ge decrease of 43 .1 % was in the 71 a_n d
over ree;istrants, which v,as more than offset by the 51-60 registrants
with a 300% increase. Therefore, with 2/3 of our permanent residents
a ge 51 and over it can be seen that

\'le

are lare;ely a retirement commun-

ity. This still represents only about 20¼ of all structures in the
t01.·ms hip. The majority, ( 85;;) , of our properties a.re ovmed by part time
resid ents v1hich use properties as vacation :ar second homes, especially
on l ake f ront areas. hany of these plan to retire here.
Another fascinatin g aspect of the population study is shm•m in the
school census. As of June, 1988 only 45 children were registered on the
sc hool census from the S::mmship. This compares to 27 in 1975, a growth
rate 9f 67~~ . So, as youn ger people under 50 have maintained the same
growth rate as those over 50, they have more children per adult ( 35~b)
students to adults under 50 in 1988 versus (28;; ) students to adult ratio
in 1975. ? or whom then, shall the Land use Planntng be developed? There
is no question but that all the people living in the township and all
those ownin,~ property here but living elsewhere should be considered.
Recreation, housing, roads, public utilities and _public services wil1 , be
needed. But, it is also certain that special attention must be given to
the elderly, the retired Senior Citizens of the community.
10

�NUMBERS OF VOTERS REGISTERED TO VOTE 1975-1988

AGE 8RANGE

......
......

Dec
Jun
1975 1976 1977 1978 1979 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 1988

18-20

1

1

0

1

1

0

2

0

0

0

2

4-

5

5

5

21-25

21

21

16

16

18

19

18

19

22

24

20

17

17

18

19

26-30

12

13

17

17

18

19

18

17

20

22

21

22

20

22

21

31-35

21

21

24

27

28

24

25

25

23

23

23

21

21

24

26

36-40

16

16

15

16

15

14

14

12 ·

16

17

19

19

19

19

19

41-45

20 ·,, 20

20

20

20

20

22

24

21

18

15

12

12

13 ,

14

46-50

5

7

6

7

9

18

16

15

15

15

19

1(}

20

22

23

51-55

6

8

11

15

18

20

19

20

22

22

22

23

26

26

31

56-60

23

25

28

29

34

44

48

48

46

~-6

48

51

56

55

59

61-65

33

35

36

38

39

4.1

39

42

42

40

39

39

41

41

41

66-70

32

34

35

34

33

33

36

36

36

34

34

32

31

30

31

71&amp;over

58

58

56

55

54

55

57

58

52

48

46

43

38

34

33

. 248 ·259

264

275

287

301

314

316

315

309

308

300

306

309

322

TOTAL

�RECREATIO:i.'Y

Recreation is no dou~t one of the most valuable assets
of Blue Lake Township. The hunting and fishing, the
snowmobiling, the motorbiking,the berry picking, the
mushroom hunting and the color tours are all a part
of this recreation of the spirit within. It also induces just looking in admiration out over a lake to
tree covered slopes of hills beyond and the quiet
contemplation of life as one looks to the furture or
as it has been in the past. To satify both of these
concepts of recreation, a careful balance must be
maintained. This will not be easy as more and :,1ore
people come to the area .

12

�J.ESID3TTIAL

',·f e see a

11

no growth 11 to a

II

slow growth 11 philosophy

since many of the available lakeshore and residential
sites are already built on.
T!1.ere is adequate availability of housing sites if we
follow this philosophy and try to control future development. Since public utilities are not available,
zoning should continue to require that lots be larger.
This means lower density of population which also goes
a long way in maintaining the quality of life currently
being enjoyed by residents.

13

�S:1~.A::SPORTATIOE
At the present time there are 23.30 miles of Primary Roads a~d
··'··~·J

40.44 miles of Local ~oads in :Slue Lake Township. These figures
were obtained from the [alkaska County Road Commission. The
accompanying map and breakdown of our roads, both :frimary and
Local, also are courtesy of the Kalkaska County ~oad Commission.

Currently our roads, especially the Primary Roads, are all in
bad shape. :This is due to, basically, a lack of money both at
the County level and here in Blue Lake Township.

Anothe::r:- important factor is, and has been, the treDendous
irtcrease in heavy truck traffic from the oil industry and
allied companies. This heavy truck and equipment traffic has
traveled on our roads extensively.
Our roads were never intended for this type of use.

Our Coun ty .1.oad system is in trouble. l.oad 8ommission money
comes from c;as and Heie;ht taxes only. The :'."toad Commission
receives nothing from property taxes.

Gas and ~eight taxes have not kept pace with the cost of increased expenses. In addition to this, the gas and weight tax
fund is being raided by other state departments, which is,
completely out of control of all County Road Commissions.
The problem confronting us now is how to pay for repair and
replacement of our roadso A few years aeo these costs were
shared equally by Blue Lake Toi.-mship and Kalkaska County.

�Now because of shortaees in revenue Kalkaska County has mandated
that Blue Lake 'rownship pay 100% of the costs for new roads and
80% of the costs for re-construction of our roads. To alll of:us
who have recently travelled our roads, it is apparent that the bulk
of our surfaced roads need to be replaced~ I-Iost of them have been
patched to the point \·/here they are all

11

patches 11 • There are stretches

on :Blue Lake 3.oaiih,hS~arvation Lake ?..oad, T\•Jin Lake Road and yet on
Sunset Trail Road where it will be better to tear up the

11

patches 11

and let the reads be replaced with gravel. Better this than the
11

axl~-bustinc holes v1hich

\'le

currently have.

At this point, the future does not look BOod. DillaGe proposals have
been defeated soundly by the voters on a County-wide basis. With
construction costs as they are at t~e present time,(there are no
indications t~at they are 3oinc to be lower). It does not appear
t~at there is any immediate remedy.

Some have asked about the :plausibility of milla2:e at the tm,mship
level to fi:iance road construction. At this point, based on tax
do llars collected, an assessment of one mill will only net the township about thirty-one thousand c1ollars($31 ,OOO.OO). And, it is
doubtful that our already over-burdened taxpayers will support such
a proposition. f,lue Lake Tm·mship or any township does not control
the roads, th.eh' conditions, state of repair, as is now the case.
Ag.a.in they are the responsibility of the Kalkaska County Road
Commission.
As far as Township '?..oads as such are concerned, it is understood
that there are no:ie.
15

�In discussine roads, it should be emphasized that the right of
the Blue Lake Township Board to establish and determine the order
in which roads and trails will be developed and improved through
the use of Township funds, rriust in no way be infringed upon,
but there are certian steps which the Planning Commission believes
would be appropiate for the Township Board to follow.
1. All roads and trails should be classified as to their
developmental structure and a time table showing the
order in which improvements should be undertaken.
2. A plan should be devised to give taxpayers living
adjacent to a road a right of petition, asking for a
change in plans for a road, also provide for a hearing
to be held therein.

3. Township officials should discuss their concern with
County road officials to see that the Township gets
its fair share of any Federal, State and County funds,
if and when they are available.
With the accompanying chart of our roads there are figures in
parentheses which indicate your Planning Commission priorities
a s to which roads need to be repaired in the order of their
importance and physical condition and/or state of disrepair.

16

�--RJ~COR.."Q-OF - LENGTH Al-TD- COHDITai:ON .OF ROADS Ai;D STREETS
TOWN-SHIP BLUE LAKE
1

SYSTEM PRIMA..1lY
YEAR 1986

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�(

RECORD-· OF LENGTH AWD cmrnITIOi-f OF ROAl)S AND S'l'll.:CETS
TOWNSHIP BLU:8 L.'\.KJ~
SYS'.I:Ei'-1 LOCAL
YEAR 1986
-----------r------------.------------,----,-----~...--------1--------,--------------.
LGT • U~·T H'[PR ... '.Fl..''..DJ~D AL..[ GRA VSL
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TO
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�COMMUNITY FACILITIES

In order for a local goverment to best meet the needs
of the community, the facilities and services which are
provided must be well planned and complet·ed: ·. well in
advance of a crisis so that . ~xpenditures may be at a
minimum and they can be spent efficiently. This part
of the study is an analysis of what has happened, what
is happening, and a forecast of what should happen in
Blue Lake Township up to the year 2013.

This should

make it easier to make decisions necessary for the
future development of the township's facilities.

20

�SCHOOLS
Qu ite some time ago the people who live in Blue Lake Township voted
to join Kalkaska Publ ic School District. They assumed their share of
the costs of operating the schools and bond issues voted by registered
electors of the entire school district. This was an irreversible
decision, and at present there is no law by ,-,hich separation .can -be
effected . At the close of the 1987-1988 school year the township was
sending 45 students to Kalkaska Public Schools at a total cost to the
taxpayers of Bl ue Lake Township of 8902,000 •or J2 0,000 per student.

As was written in our last i•Iaster Plan of 197 5, 11 surely there is a
more equitable ,-, ay to pay for schools than to depend so heavily upon
the property tax as a source of revenue. 11 :rot:--1inc has c hanged in these
1 3 years sine e . '.! e f incl our schools in financial crisis as their
costs have risen faster than t~ie property tax base . The total millac;e
rate ~per ') 1000 of assessed valuat ion was 828.67 in 1987. This included
J 3 .27 per -~ 1000 for T . B. A.

~e find our childre~ faced with over-growding and cut-back curriculums
in the 1988-1989 school year with several 0i lla ce requests recently
defeated by the voters in the county. The taxpayers abilities to pay
is enterin3 into the picture . The state is wrest ling with the situation
but has n ot mat~e an~, recommendat ions to the voters of the state as
this is a state- wide proble• (espec i a lly f orthern I:ichi san .) Year
round school is beinc; discussed as an alternative to any more millage
to.;..-f.linance bonds for construction of necessar:r classrooms to handle
overcrowding .
.l:he township , county and state \·fill have to f ind other sources of

1

tax revenue if 1.-re are to continue quality edu cation for our children in the future .
21

�POLICE P~OTECTION

As our population increases, not

only in the township but in

the county, the need for protection for the citizens and
their property increases.

Blue Lake Tovmship does not maintain a police department.
We do have a constable. :Iis only function by law is to
"serve papers." The Township 3 oard may give him other
duties to perform but not as a police officer. The tm·mship
relies on protection from the Kalkaska County Sheriff's
Department and the f1 ichigan State Police.

In the not-so-far distant future however, a part-time deputy
sheriff, workine under the direction of the sheriff, will
be needed in the township. While our crime rate is still
low, it has risen over the past years. This trend will
continue as population increases.

22

�FIRE PROT:3CTIOH
As we update our Comprehensive Plannine we find that fire protection
is now provided. Because of our rural location, recreation and retirement life style, the community is ,growing. A well equipped Fire
Department is very ne0essary. In the beginning, our fire fighting
personnel and equipment was very sparse, but they did their best .
Today with much dedication, training and practice, the township has
a squad of volunteers numbering (14), who are trained in advanced
First Aid assistance. ~lso, fou~(4), who are fully trained as
Fimergency I-iedical Techicians, (:SI',IT' s), each carry a Trauma Kit and
Oxygen in their personal vehicle, for quick response. The squad
consists of both • en and women at this time.

The Fire nepartmen t now :1.as a fire barn, located on :Slue Lake
~oad which houses a·3100 c;allon tanker, a pumper that pumps 1000
gallons a minute and. carries 750 gallons on board. 1:he second response
pumper carries 250 gallons on board and pumps 500 ::;allons a minute.
The snowmobile sled and trailer are used for off-ro2.d transport to
our emere;ency rescue vehicles, which is fully equipped..

Blue Lake Township Fire Department is called #4. One quick call
to Kalkaska County Sheriff Department,1-258-8686 for ALL ET&lt;IER.GEYCI:2S,
will put the fire squad into action through pagers, which each and
every fireman and Bl'I~'s have on their person at home.

23

�A second building 3O'x4O' has been added to the property of 51
acres, 01,,med by Blue Lake TO\·mship for future housine; of fire
apparatus as necessity warrants it. At present, it is used to
store items for the Annual Rummage Sale, promoted by the Fire
Department Auxiliary EI"Oup to generate monies for fire and rescue
equipment. The Township :Board requires a submitted ·b udget from the
Fire Department for operational funds. As fire fighting and rescue
requirements arise, our people train more and more. At present
time the Department needs a Brush Fire fighting truck. The EMT's
obtained from the 3lue Lake Township Civic Association a (CPR
Annie) for cardio-pulmonary resuscitation.

~ith the community

behind them and the coo:pera tion of the Township Board, our fire
department strives to be f orever ready to serve you and will
continue to do so•

24

�U~ILITI:CS

As population increases and land use beco• es intensified, so will
pollution, if the present practices for water and sewage continue.
This will directly affect the health, safety and welfare of the
entire commu_~ity. 3verythinG possible must be done to maintain
utilities in the best possible condition so the people pf the
townsl1ip will be protected frmn conmunicable diseases and other
health hazards. As conditions deteriorate the poi~t will eventually be reached \·there new and expandine sanitation service will
become a necessity. In the near future, septic system inspection
may be necessary to assure that rules and regulations of the
District =-=.: eal th :D epartment Ko.1 are co• plied with.

~~ o

exceptions

on vmter-front property should be nade. Hater sae1pling of each
lake in a number of :places should be done at least once a year
to determine if any change in content occurs.

~or e attention ne eds to be paid -·6f present supply of drinking
\vater. A campaic;n should be started. to have an annual sam::9ling
of water from every \'/ell in Blue Lake Tm·mship, analyzed to be
sure the \·rater is safe to use. Since many \·!ells are shallow and
th e continued pollution of land by septic tanks, a li • ited public
water system

may be necessary.

As a rule whenJ:;@. : septic tankr: is --l installed ::and .:p1:1t intn .;operation
people think that the sewac; e problem is taken care of for all
time, but this is not true. After from five to six years, depending upon the usae;e, the tank becomes filled

\ •t i

th solids and

the \'Jaste t h en flo\'Js directly into the drJ'·Tell or the drain field.
As a first step, septic system inspection should become mandatory.
Second mandatory pumpin 6 should be incorporated, the frequency dependin e; on what I s

happening to the quality 01· lake water.

�Third, holding tanks may have to be introduced which would not allow
any seepage into dry wells or drain fields. This would require
more frequent pumping but would stop the pollution of land,
especially on water front lots. All these steps are cl.esigned
to prolong the final step, the construction of one or more sewage
treatment plants designed to remove a minimum of 90~~ of the
suspended solids in sewage, tot;ether with the necessary connecting
sew.er and pumping stations. There is not as much money available
today in the way of ?ede:ral Grant s as there use to be. If Federal
BudGet deficits continue in the future, less 7ederal Grants will
be available, :1hich puts the full burden on the back of local
1

tovmship taxpayers.
'rhe cost of sewace -plants have escalated so much that the interim
steps should be strictly followed to put off such a traumatic cost
on the taxpayers as long as -possible. Population gro\'/th and land use
density are other factors that :1ill hasten the day of reckoning.
1

As far as solid waste disposal is concerned, Blue Lake Township
is wait ing to see what lCalkaslm County will do. At present the
township pays an independant contractor to haul refuse from the
townshi-p to the contractor's transfer station from \·/here it is
:1aulecl to one of

t\·10

approved land fill sites in l; orthern Michigan.

This will become a very serious 9roblem in the near future as these
land fillcsites are closed. The county must address and adopt a
solution to this probler:1. Any route they e;o v,ill be far more costly
in the future than now.

26

�KALKASKA COUlJTY
ACC0ill!T 1,t4002

SECTIOHS
001 - 036

T28

4002

SUBDIVISIONS

Q60

820
830
860

Bass Lake Plat
Bay View
:Big Twin Lake Sub.
Big Twin Lake Sub. ~}1
3lue Raven
:Slue Lalce
Tilue Lake ~eights
Carmichael's Sub. #1
Chicago Point
Four Seasons
3agle Lake Sub.
Indian Lake
Z.aska Beach
Ke,-,eenaw Beach
Kepsel's (John) Sub.
Kepsel' s Little Twin Lake Sub.f/1
Little Twin Lake Sub.
Iuddle Blue Lake Sub.
~orth Blue Lake Sub.
?~ orthshore Beach
Partridge Point
Rainbm·1 Ridge
Twin Lake Beach

900

Personal Property

100
140

147
220
260
180

300

340
420
380

460

500
620
540
580
660
700

1~.o
780

SCHOOL DISTRICT
Kalkaska

40

27

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
David Bluem
Vietnam War
49 minutes 30 seconds
(00:00:04)
-Born on December 13th, 1944 in Saginaw, Michigan.
-Highest rank achieved Specialist 5th class.
-Father worked for an auto plant and the City.
-Mother worked for various hospitals in food service.
-Two older sisters.
-Some uncles served in World War II and the Korean War.
-Cousins that were in the military as well.
-Father in law was a Navy vet of World War II.
-A brother in law went into service the same day as him.
-They both went to Fort Knox, Kentucky for basic training.
-He was drafted into the military.
-He graduated from Central Michigan University with a bachelor’s.
-Began his Master’s for guidance and counseling when he was drafted.
-Appealed the draft which was granted.
-However two weeks later he was drafted anyway.
-Entered service in the Army.
-The Army needed draftees.
-About an eight week training.
-Considered himself in good health at the time, but training was difficult.
-Practiced carrying one another, marching with heavy packs.
-Being sent to Vietnam:
-Flew out of Detroit to Fort Lewis, Washington.
-Spent a few days getting prepared with gear etc.
-Next flew to Anchorage, Alaska, to the Philippines, then to Japan, and finally landing in
Vietnam.
-Befriended a few of the military recruits.
-Connected with others that were also working on their graduate degree.
-They were able to help tutor certain recruits that were struggling with the written
portions of the training.
-Enjoyed this capability to offer a unique value to the service.
-Encountered one of the recruits he tutored several weeks after arriving in Vietnam.
-Typically sent letters to his wife every day.
-His wife wrote back often as well.
(10:00)
-Sometimes she would record messages on a cassette.
-He worked at aviation headquarters.
-So he could not give detail about operations.
-Operation was being prepared to be handed over to the Vietnamese.

�-They burned much of the sensitive materials in burn barrels.
-They still own the letters and cassette communications sent to one another.
-Made friends with the other recruits, one was from Traverse City, Michigan.
-While off duty they played volleyball, basketball, and watched movies.
-Movies were fairly current. Example: Woodstock.
-Slept in bunk beds in large barracks.
-Very large rats were common.
-Eventually he obtained a two-man room to reside in.
-Marijuana use was quite common.
(20:00)
-Drug use seemed to be an escape method.
-At the mess hall there was a box to leave your drugs and sign up for a rehab program.
-Local women would wash and iron their uniforms.
-The first base in Vietnam was Cam Ranh Bay.
-They took refuge in a shelter while being bombed.
-Eventually he was sent to Long Binh.
-Aviation Brigade would take care of the helicopters.
-Other than that the conflicts were in the distance.
-Stayed in Long Binh most of the time.
-On guard duty they were issued a rifle.
-A friend that fell asleep on guard duty was demoted with a pay cut.
-He was promoted from E4 to E5 while in Long Binh.
-When the Vietnam War ended he had been back in the US a few years.
-He was released from military service two months early to finish his Master’s degree.
-Flight out of Vietnam stopped at the Philippines to refuel, and then landed in San Francisco,
California.
(30:00)
-Used a USO area at the airport, changed to civilian clothes from anti-war concerns.
-School began only a few weeks after returning to the US.
-Lived in an area of Saginaw where medical helicopters would fly over.
-An upsetting reminder of the War.
-Began work on his specialist degree for guidance counseling.
-Job market had changed since he left, difficult to find work.
-Began working as a substitute teacher, and then worked with the State social services.
-Eventually worked with child welfare services and retired from there.
-Utilized the G.I. Bill toward his college tuition.
-His job offered medical insurance so VA was not needed.
-Did not maintain contact with many of the recruits from the military.
-Preferred to leave the War in the past.
-Highlights of the military: A Bob Hope show.
(40:00)
-Food in Vietnam was mostly flown in from Australia.
-Quite good. Fruits, vegetables, meats, etc.
-In basic training the food was much worse.
-Once while he went home to visit in basic training, his wife didn’t recognize him because he
was so much thinner.

�-Lessons from the military: interesting to work with various people, accepting job responsibility.

�</text>
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                <text>David Bluem was born in Saginaw, Michigan on December 13, 1944. He was drafted into the Vietnam War while attending grad school at Central Michigan University. In basic training he was sent to Fort Knox, Kentucky for the US Army. Thereafter he was flown to Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam. He was then sent to Long Binh he was assigned to the Aviation Brigade to take care of the helicopters. At his highest ranking he achieved the rank of E5.</text>
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                    <text>t,-- -------=___:_-=- ---..:::=- ______

---

ANNUAL SNOWSNAKE TOURNAMENT
sponsored by:

AMERICAN IND/AN CO-OP

BLUEWATER

and
AMERICAN INDIAN CTYr1MUNI.T/ES' l£ADERSH/P COUNCIL
EAST C/-IINA SCHOOL · DISTRICT
JANUARY 2S, 1986
ISB5 MIESNER !&lt;OAP
10:00 am. io 3 :00 pm.
MARINE CITY 48039

CONTACT: NILA YOUNG-

313- 765 - 4998
313-765-8104

LUNCH-

DRUM

I

TRADE.RS WELCOME
pay_ fur meal only ,.P hot\
( w,=th a school d strict J

��</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Joseph Boball
(1:04:05)
(00:25) Background Information
• Joseph was born in 1912
• He went to through military training to be a heavy equipment officer
• While in Okinawa Joseph had to visit the hospital because he was having problems with
his eyes
• There he worked outside with a caterpillar tractor building infrastructure
• He also worked in Korea with the 101st division of engineers
(3:15) Boot Camp
• After being drafted, Joseph went to Fort Custer in Battle Creek, MI for four days
• He was then sent to the Jefferson Barracks in Mississippi
• Joseph’s daughter was born 2 days before he was drafted
• He spent 2 years, 6 months, and 24 days in the service without any time on furlough
• Joseph went through officer training in Virginia where he worked on building tanks and
putting pipes in the ocean for transportation of oil
• He then volunteered for guard duty; he would work for 24 straight hours and then have
24 hours off
• Eventually he was made staff sergeant
• Boot camp was awful and they had to work all day long
• Joseph went to Hawaii and then to Okinawa
(14:30) Okinawa
• They traveled on an LST to Okinawa where Joseph and others experienced “plenty of
combat”
• He spent a lot of time on a tractor building an air strip around the island
• The citizens would always ask the Americans for cigarettes
• While working on the air strip, Joseph saw Japanese plains fly over and they were
bombing local houses
• It was always raining and they had to work 12 hours a day
(26:00) Near the Front Lines
• While fighting they found many Japanese items scattered over; blankets, bikes, guitars
• He came near a valley that was full of bodies
• Once he caught fleas from a horse
• He wrote a letter every day to his family, but received letters only once every three weeks
(35:15) The End of Service
• They had heard that the US had a secret weapon that they were going to use against Japan
• 90 men had died in combat the night before the bombs were dropped

�•
•
•

Their ship had been hit by a typhoon while in docked in Okinawa
They took a ship back to Seattle and many people got sick along the way
He was given a big steak dinner and then he took a train to Chicago

(40:30) Work After the Service
• Joseph could have received 50 dollars a month for a year, but he regretfully did not fill
out the paper work
• After his time in the service, he traveled around Ohio for a while
• In 1946 he started working for a refinery with oil wells
• He has been to one veterans reunion in Cocoa Beach
• He did not enjoy his time in the service, but someone had to stop the Japanese and
Germans from invading more countries

�</text>
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                <text>Joseph Boball was born in 1912 and worked in the Aviation Engineers from 1943 through 1946.  Joseph was Staff Sergeant in Okinawa and Korea.  In Okinawa Joseph spent most of his time building an air strip and other infrastructure.  While working in Okinawa, Joseph was threatened by Japanese plains flying over and shooting many times.  After his time in the service, Joseph worked with for an oil refinery and as attended a few veterans' reunions.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Gerald Bocian
(42:38)
(00:15) Background Information
• Gerald was born in Chicago, Illinois in 1925
• His father worked in a steel mill and his mother stayed at home
• Gerald quit high school in December of 1942 in the middle of his senior year
• He joined the Navy in January of 1943 when he was only 17 years old; he forged
his parents’ signatures
(02:25) Training
• Gerald began training at Great Lakes Naval Base in northern Illinois for 12 weeks
• After basic training they had their choice of which school they would move on to
and Gerald chose to work with submarines
• He first went to a school in Washington working with torpedoes and conducted
test fires for 4 months
• He worked during the day and had nights off
• Gerald was then sent to submarine school in San Diego, California
• They worked about 3 days a week with S-Boats and fleet subs, which were from
WWI and about twice the size of a S-Boat
• Gerald also went through fire control school
(13:10) Pearl Harbor
• Gerald took a troop transport to Pearl Harbor and was assigned to a Naval base
• He was in charge of 70 men that worked with refitting submarines while the crew
was on R &amp; R
• They had about 8 hours to sand blast the ship, paint it, and repair any problems
• He worked on about 14 submarines while in Hawaii and only went to sea a few
times for training purposes
(16:35) Silversides
• Gerald was transferred onto the USS Silversides submarine after working in
Hawaii for three years on submarine maintenance
• The sub had been on 13 war patrols already and he was working with more
experienced men
• Their radar could detect a Japanese plane from 12 miles away and then they
would dive to evade the plane
• Many Japanese ships case out loose mines in an attempt to blow up US ships
• The sub would hit the mines that they spotted with 50 calibers to detonate them
(23:00) The End of the War
• The submarines arrived just off the coast of Guam when the war had been dying
down

�•
•
•

Gerald felt that Guam was very nice with “fantastic facilities”
They stayed in Quonset huts surrounded by a fence and were warned about
Japanese men that still might be wondering around and not know that the war was
over
After the war the submarine traveled back to Panama at half speed because they
were short on fuel

(27:00) Baseball
• Gerald was asked to sign a contract to play on a professional baseball team, but
decided to wait a year to sign because he had not been home in four years
• Gerald was discharged in Maryland and took some time off before playing
baseball
• He played with the team for one year, but did not get paid enough money and then
got into the trucking industry
• Gerald started his own business after working through various truck lines
• He became very successful and had six children, all of which he helped put
through college
(29:50) Submarine Life
• There was no actual daily routine because they were almost always submerged
and working odd hours
• If they had to work in the middle of the night, they would have to wear infrared
goggles to get used to the darkness
• Other than bread and coffee, there was not much else to eat or drink
• They could not take a shower until all the potatoes that were stored in the showers
had been eaten
• The Navy helped Gerald to learn about obedience and he had many positive
experiences while in the service

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                    <text>Young Lords
In Lincoln Park
Interviewee: John Boelter
Interviewers: José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez
Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections
Date: 8/20/2012

Biography and Description
John Boelter was one of the Chicago Teachers Union members on strike in September 1968 at Waller
High School, known today by its new name, Lincoln Park High. Today he is a Professor of Biology at
Chicago State University. In 1968, a prominent Young Lord, Ralph “Spaghetti” Rivera returned from
Puerto Rico and subleased a room from Dr. Boelter. Mr. Rivera, who grew up in Lakeview, wanted to be
closer to the Young Lords who were then hanging out in front of the Armitage Avenue United Methodist
Church which later to become the People’s Church, on the corner of Dayton Street and Armitage
Avenue. In Puerto Rico, Mr. Rivera had been hanging out with M.P.I. (Movimiento Pro Independencia)
and F.U.P.I. (Federacion Universitaria Pro Independencia) their student auxiliary, at University of Puerto
Rico campus in Rio Piedras. He was going through a political transformation. Upon arriving in Chicago,
Mr. Rivera soon discovered that his Young Lords colleagues were also going through a transformation.
They had been reorganized once again by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez and the members were struggling
with each other on whether to remain apolitical as just a gang or to become a human rights movement.
Mr. Rivera joined in fully to help Mr. Jiménez, and they together designed the original Young Lords
button that read, “Tengo Puerto Rico En Mi Corazón ( I have Puerto Rico in my heart) with a green map
of Puerto Rico in the center, and a brown arm and fist holding a rifle. The initials YLO, which stood for
“Young Lords Organization,” was at the bottom. They had added organization to their name, to make it

�clear that they were now involved in a class struggle, fighting for Latinos, the poor, and for Puerto Rican
self-determination. Mr. Rivera became one of the Young Lords’ first P.E. (political education) class
teachers, as these sessions were being held in the different homes of members including. LP Records of
speeches by Malcom X, Fidel Castro, Don Pedro Albizu Campos, Mao Tse Tung’s Little Red Book, the
National Question, Panther films, and Saul Alinsky strategies were being used as tools for study. It was in
Mr. Boelter’s and Mr. Rivera’s house where Chicago Black Panther Party Chairman Fred Hampton and
the Panthers first arrived on Dayton and Armitage. They were led from the corner to the house to meet
Dr. Boelter, Mr. Rivera, Mr. Jiménez, and the Young Lords. The Black Panthers broke bread and drank
Wild Irish Rose (Fred Hampton did not drink or use drugs) on ice, smoked some weed, and joked a little,
cementing a relationship that has lasted to this day. On a different day within a few weeks at the same
location, it was informally agreed to join together with the Young Patriots. BPP Field Marshall Bob Lee
was working with them. The three groups, who were already major players within their own
communities, became the original members of the alliance known as the Rainbow Coalition. This was
followed by several press conferences announcing the Rainbow Coalition, including one where
Congressman Bobby Rush, appears in a photo with the Young Lords, Young Patriots and other Black
Panthers but where Mr. Jiménez and Mr. Hampton were unable to be present. The Rainbow Coalition
was strongly woven together to the credit of the organizations that took part in it. They all were
committed and followed the same vanguard ideology of the BPP. But it is significant to note that the
Rainbow Coalition was more symbolic than a structured organization. It was the mass way for all the
grassroots organizations to find common ground and to join together for support of each other’s
struggles, and it soon spread to other movements and groups like Rising Up Angry, the Intercommunal
Survival Committees, Red Guard, Brown Berets, S.D.S. and many other groups in many cities. After the
Young Lords went underground and the Puerto Rican and low income residents of Lincoln Park were
completely removed by Mayor Richard J. Daley and his patronage machine, Dr. Boelter moved south to
Morgan Park. Dr. Boelter also joined the Progressive Labor Party. The Progressive Labor Party had left
the Communist Party years before, because their belief was that “they want to skip the Dictatorship of
the Proletariat and go right into utopia.” They are against racism and respect workers, but do not want
to cling on to leaders or unions, preferring to organize the masses. They have been accused of “catering
more to the petty bourgeoisie and the aristocracy of labor.” Then they rejected the Black Panthers and
Young Lords use of Nationalism as an important step. They also had become part of S.D.S. and by 1969
were their largest faction. Dr. Boelter today is still a member. These political discussions on all sides
were part of the Lincoln Park era in the late 60s and 70s.

�Transcript

JOSE JIMENEZ:

Okay, John, if you can give me your full name and your date of birth

and where you were born.
JOHN BOELTER:

Sure. My name is John Boelter. I was born May 15, 1942 so I’m

70 years old this year. I was born in Des Moines, Iowa. Did I answer all those
questions?
JJ:

That’s right, you did good. So were your parents’ name and that?

JB:

Yeah, my parents are both deceased. [Fred?] Boelter was my father and
[Margaret?] Boelter my mother.

JJ:

And they’re both from Iowa?

JB:

My mother is from Iowa, my father was from Detroit, Michigan. Yeah.

JJ:

All right. Boelter, is that an Italian name or...?

JB:

It was German. German background, right.

JJ:

Okay. All right. Not that it mattered. [00:01:00] Any brothers and sisters and
their names?

JB:

I have six brothers and sisters. I’m the oldest of seven. The oldest is -- next to
me is [Ruth?], my sister, and then [Paul?], my brother. My brother [James?], my
sister [Helen?], brother [Robert?], and brother [Mark?].

JJ:

Okay. Are they in Chicago any of them or...?

JB:

They’re scattered. My brother [Jim?] is in Manhattan. Mark is the closest; He’s
in Springfield, Illinois. He’s the youngest. Paul’s in St. Louis, Helen’s in Ohio,
Ruth is in Green Bay, Wisconsin, and Robert’s out in --

1

�JJ:

Robert’s where?

JB:

Robert is in Oregon, Portland. Portland, Oregon.

JJ:

Oh, okay. Okay. What kind of work are they into? Just [00:02:00] touch upon. If
you can touch on that a little bit.

JB:

Okay. Ruth is a retired nurse, an RN. Paul is -- he had a custom carpentry
business. He sold it and went back to college and a few years ago, started
teaching math in middle school math. Jim just retired from banking in New York.
He didn’t do that much. He worked for the bank, but he did mostly
communications work; Their electronic systems and stuff like that. Let’s see,
who’s next?

JJ:

You got to protect him there because the bankers (laughter) have a better rap
today.

JB:

They had backup systems for their electronics and he was in charge of what they
call hotspots or something like that, the backup [00:03:00] systems. Helen is a
medical transcriber; Works from home online. Bob, basically his main job is he
gets paid by the state of Oregon to be his wife’s caregiver. And he does some
other work on the side; You know, delivery work. Mark is retired and in a nursing
home. Who did I forget? I think I got everybody, right?

JJ:

Okay. That’s good. You said you have some children also or...?

JB:

Yes. My oldest is my son [Aaron?]. He’ll be 43 this year. Next is my daughter
[Adrienne?] who lives in Atlanta. My son Aaron is an art teacher like his mother,
my ex-wife. Adrienne lives in Atlanta. She’s [00:04:00] in videos and media

2

�communications. My middle daughter lives in Chicago here. This is my wife,
[Ellen?] coming in. (laughs) This is Cha-Cha Jimenez.
ELLEN BOELTER: Hi. How are you? (inaudible) no, that’s okay, go ahead.
JJ:

That’s okay, all right.

EB:

Go ahead. I’ll be out here.

JB:

So I was talking about [Susana?], my middle daughter. She’s currently
unemployed but she was also in video and media reproduction work.

EB:

I really am -- I was just trying to (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) for the
research.

JB:

Okay. My youngest is [Brenda?] who lives in and works in Colorado. She works
for the Colorado state parks as a biologist.

JJ:

Okay. Then that’s what you do, too. You teach?

JB:

I teach biology, right.

JJ:

Okay. [00:05:00] So how did you arrive in Chicago? How did you get here?

JB:

I came to Chicago to look for work; A teaching job. I came from Valparaiso,
Indiana. I was working and teaching. I was a graduate assistant at Valparaiso
University where I’d also got my undergraduate work. A job fell through in Fort
Wayne, Indiana so one of the professors at Valpo said come on to Chicago. He
was a sociology professor and a football coach. He had an urban studies
program going. He said, “Come on in. I’ll help you get a job and a place to live
and you can help me talk to my students.” So that’s how I got here. Fall of ’66 -(break in audio)

3

�JB:

-- in urban studies with the professor. I was already out of undergraduate work
and [00:06:00] starting my master’s program. But I needed to work so I came to
Chicago.

JJ:

And you landed work right away. Where?

JB:

Waller High School.

JJ:

Okay, Waller High School.

JB:

Yeah. Which is now known as Lincoln Park High School.

JJ:

And what year was that?

JB:

Nineteen sixty-six; Fall of ’66.

JJ:

Oh, ’66. Okay. So what was that like? I mean that year at Waller? What was
the population of the school?

JB:

Population of the school. I’d say the majority of my students were Black from the
Cabrini-Green Projects. Then the next largest group were the Puerto Rican
students from around -- in the neighborhood around the school. Then there were
a few white students from the white area of Lincoln Park.

JJ:

So the Black students were bussed in or how was that?

JB:

I don’t recall any school buses but [00:07:00] they would’ve come on public
transportation. Yeah.

JJ:

Oh, public transportation. But the neighborhood was Puerto Rican at that time.
Is that what you’re saying? The Puerto Ricans were from around there.

JB:

Yeah, the neighborhood, the housing right around the school. The blocks around
the school were actually being torn down by mayor Daley’s urban renewal
project.

4

�JJ:

At that time.

JB:

Yeah, when I get off from the bus stop, I had two blocks to walk to the school
every morning and I’d see them tearing down another home. So --

JJ:

In ’66 already at that time.

JB:

Yeah.

JJ:

Okay. Were there any gangs at all or anything at the school?

JB:

Yeah. I couldn’t tell you what gangs exactly. There was some –- but I don’t
remember that there were -- it was a big problem. But kids came from CabriniGreen and some kids were in gangs there. Then I guess the Young Lords were
sort of known as a gang. At the time I came, I wasn’t [00:08:00] really that
familiar with any students outside my classroom in the Puerto Rican community.

JJ:

So there were some gangs but it really wasn’t a big problem.

JB:

No, it wasn’t. It wasn’t a big problem.

JJ:

Okay. All right. So you came to Waller and you’re coming from Valparaiso,
Indiana but you grew up in Des Moines, Iowa?

JB:

I grew up in Iowa. I lived there until I was 11. Then we moved to Wisconsin. I
finished the eighth grade. Actually, I –- from sixth grade to eighth grade, we lived
in two places in Wisconsin. Then I went to high school in Wisconsin, graduated
from high school and started college at Stevens Point, Wisconsin, the state
college. It’s now called a state university at Stevens Point. Then my family
moved to Ohio [00:09:00] and so I transferred to Valparaiso, Indiana to
Valparaiso University.

JJ:

Okay. You came into Waller and was that challenging for you or how did you...?

5

�JB:

Yeah, it was a little bit of a culture shock. (laughter) Because I had until then
then been from a rural area to -- through high school, I lived in the country,
basically. A rural area. Farming country. Valparaiso, Indiana was the biggest
town I’d ever been in when I went to college. Again, pretty much of a
homogeneous population. White. So coming into Waller High School was, with
mainly a minority population, was a big change for me.

JJ:

What about the professors? (inaudible) So the population was mainly minority in
’66, but what about the...?

JB:

Professors were mainly white.

JJ:

Were mainly white at that time?

JB:

[00:10:00] Right.

JJ:

Any Latinos or African Americans at that time or that you were aware of?

JB:

Not at the beginning that I’m aware of. Later on, there was a student boycott.
Some of the demands were to bring in more African American teachers and
African American history.

JJ:

And you were involved in some of that boycott.

JB:

Yes, I was.

JJ:

Can you tell me about that or...?

JB:

In the fall of ’68, I’m pretty sure it was ’68, a lot of things happened that year.
Martin Luther King was shot at the Democratic Convention. But when we came
back to school, some of the nationalists living in the projects, Black nationalists,
were working with some of the students and they were taking militant [00:11:00]
action like pulling fire alarms and emptying the school. Then trying to get picket

6

�lines going and things like that. Raising demands. Everything from more toilet
paper in the washroom to Black history courses. I’d be getting to know my
students and some of their parents and it just seemed to me that that was the
side -- in that particular struggle, that was the side that I identified with. So I got
involved and help organize it.
JJ:

Okay. So you helped to organize the boycott.

JB:

Right.

JJ:

Okay. Were you a member of any group or anything or just doing it in...?

JB:

No, I wasn’t. I was still kept in touch with the professor from Valparaiso. My
background is Lutheran and Valparaiso is a Lutheran-affiliated university. So I
went to a Lutheran church [00:12:00] over in LaSalle. I forget the name of that
high-rise, middle-class housing community there.

JJ:

Sandburg Village?

JB:

Sandburg Village. Right, very good. Yeah. There was a church there that I
attended. The Valpo students that came into town were Lutheran so that was
their base of operations out of that church, too. So I was part of that little
community, as well. At one point, I belonged to a group called Lutheran [Action?]
–-

JJ:

Actually, Sandburg came after we were displaced from there, too, because it
was -- used to be called [La Clark?]. That neighborhood was called –-

JB:

Oh, I wasn’t aware of the history.

JJ:

Then Sandburg Village came after that. That’s why I know Sandburg, but...

JB:

Oh, okay. (laughs) When I knew it, those high-rises were already up, so --

7

�JJ:

But you lived there, too. You lived in that area.

JB:

I lived just within walking distance just a couple blocks over, yeah.

JJ:

[00:13:00] (inaudible) it was within the same neighborhood.

JB:

Right. That was on LaSalle Street. I lived on Sedgwick which was a couple
blocks west of there.

JJ:

In the gardens you mentioned.

JB:

Town and Country Gardens.

JJ:

Town and Country Gardens in Sedgwick.

JB:

Right.

JJ:

Okay. (inaudible) those apartments, housing. So you said you organized the
boycott because your students were involved in it?

JB:

Yes, yes.

JJ:

Is that what you said or...? I don’t want to...

JB:

I can’t remember the exact circumstances how I got involved in it but I know I
was talking -- I think there was a community organizer at an office in Lincoln
Park. I’m sorry I don’t remember his name, he and his wife. They were telling
me that there was a –-

JJ:

Did you know if their -- what their vision or (inaudible)?

JB:

Yeah, [00:14:00] it might’ve been the name.

JJ:

Concerned Citizens of Lincoln Park?

JB:

That could’ve –-that’s possibly -- I can’t --

JJ:

That was a group that worked with us later so...

JB:

Oh, okay.

8

�JJ:

But I mean, it may have been somebody else.

JB:

Yeah.

JJ:

But they were connected to a church. To the North Side Cooperative Ministry.
It’s not them.

JB:

No, that -- I don’t think so. I wouldn’t say for sure. I’m not -- it could be but my
memory is kind of foggy on that.

JJ:

Okay. So you felt that you should get involved? Why did you feel that way or...
You were a teacher at that time?

JB:

Well, I was saying a minute ago I was in the Lutheran Action Committee. On
Sunday mornings, we used to go to church services to try and meet people and
organize around civil [00:15:00] rights and anti-war demands. We would take
burlap, colored burlap, and make a serape out of it. Put it over our shoulders.
We would have cut-out letters that we put on it making slogans and peace
symbols and things like that. (laugh) We’d sort of make a spectacle of ourselves
and walk up and sit in the front of the church. Afterwards, try to meet people and
get people involved in these discussions. So I was becoming conscious of the
anti-war movement and the civil rights movement and learning about those and
supporting those demands. So I guess it just seemed what was happening at
Waller was just a little bit like an extension of that.

JJ:

So the boycott was Black students and Latino students or (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible)?

JB:

Yeah, and white students, too.

JJ:

And white students, too. Okay now, but they all joined together?

9

�JB:

At first, yeah, we had a -- we called for a meeting. I say we because [00:16:00]
I’m still not clear who else was involved at the beginning organizing it. I might’ve
been one of the main people involved. But we organized at the church on
Armitage near -- Armitage and Halsted. That’s a church that the Young Lords
use -- eventually worked out of. Do you remember the name of it?

JJ:

Armitage Avenue United Methodist Church.

JB:

Okay.

JJ:

On Dayton and Armitage.

JB:

Yeah. So we got permission to use that for a meeting -- organizing a meeting.
And I don’t know if we put out flyers or how the word got out but there was a -- it
was a pretty good size meeting. A lot of people there from the projects, from
Cabrini-Green.

JJ:

Now this was before the Young Lords took it over, the church or was...?

JB:

Yes, it was.

JJ:

It was before.

JB:

It was before that.

JJ:

So they were already letting you use it.

JB:

Yes. Yes, it was open to the community, I guess. [00:17:00] Then in the midst of
that meeting, you and Ralph got up and said, “Where’s the demands for the
Puerto Ricans?” I sort of stopped the meeting and we said --

JJ:

Ralph is a -- Ralph Rivera. His nick name was Spaghetti. (laughter)

JB:

Right. Although nobody called him that to his face.

10

�JJ:

Okay. We did, we did. I mean, it was just we grew up with him. But Ralph was
one of the main Young Lords.

JB:

Right. I didn’t know either one of you at that time. That’s the beginning of our
relationship.

JJ:

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Okay. So that was the beginning?

JB:

That was the beginning. So we stopped the meeting and had a caucus or you
guys had a caucus and came up with some demands. We added those in and
continued the meeting and made plans for the boycott.

JJ:

Okay. So this was [00:00:18] pre-Young Lords. This is just pre-Young Lords as a
political group. This isn’t just for --

JB:

Yeah. I would say you were just beginning. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
Because as I got to know you, that’s what you were doing. So you were already
started, I think, at that point.

JJ:

Right. Oh, okay. You were already started. Okay. Okay, I can understand the
timeline. Okay, now what happened with the boycott?

JB:

We had another organizing meeting that I can remember but it was held in
Cabrini-Green. At one point in it, it sort of broke up. There was some
disagreement among the Black organizers and the students and so on, the
nationalists. They wanted everybody [00:19:00] out so they could discuss their
agreements among themselves. They didn’t want to be openly disagreeing,
right? So after they straightened it out, there was another meeting. It never
really got back together. Somehow, it just sort of -- everybody still wanted the
boycott but there was -- it was difficult for Blacks and Puerto Ricans and whites to

11

�work together for some reason. I don’t know. So we ended up having a Black
boycott center in Cabrini, we had a Puerto Rican boycott center I think was at the
church -- the United Methodist Church. Then at the community center that you
were mentioning before, there was some kind of community center in Lincoln
Park.
JJ:

The Concerned Citizens?

JB:

I think it was the Concerned Citizens.

JJ:

They were on [Main?] --

JB:

The white students had another boycott center, right?

JJ:

Oh yeah, they were on Lincoln and (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

JB:

I got a few teachers to support it. The first day was pretty successful. There
weren’t that many teachers [00:20:00] besides myself that actually were walking
the picket line.

JJ:

Do you remember any of their names or...?

JB:

One was [Theresa Dubois?] who eventually became my wife. She’s now my exwife. Let’s see. I have another -- well, I still keep up with this man. I was at his
house last week. [Myron Stoller?] was an English teacher. I don’t think he’ll
mind me using his name because he’s still pretty radical so (laughs) --

JJ:

He’s still pretty radical.

JB:

He’s retired. Yeah. He retired from Waller. He was there for 33 years.

JJ:

So there were a little group, contingent of radicals inside Waller High School --

JB:

Yes, yes.

12

�JJ:

-- that were working with the Young Lords and some of the other groups at the
time. Okay.

JB:

Right. I don’t know how closely they worked with the Young Lords.

JJ:

No, no. Okay. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

JB:

Until the boycott but I didn’t know you guys before.

JJ:

We were getting close to you.

JB:

[00:21:00] Right. We were close and shortly after that, Ralph and I became
roommates. We rented an apartment together. So at the time we had this
meeting, the first organizing meeting, I was living in somebody’s living room
temporarily while I was looking for a place to live. I had moved closer to the
school. We were talking about --

JJ:

Okay. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) You met Ralph at the meeting.

JB:

Yeah. And then we continued to --

JJ:

You continued to (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

JB:

-- through the boycott to continue to work together. And I don’t know, probably
discussed that I was looking for a place to live and he must’ve been at the same
time.

JJ:

Yeah, because he came from a different neighborhood, Lake View. He was
hanging out with us every day at Lincoln Park so --

JB:

Oh, okay. So we were both looking for a place to live.

JJ:

-- you were both looking for a place to live, yeah. Now, so the results of the
boycott [00:22:00] was when? I don’t understand.

13

�JB:

The first day, like I said, was pretty successful. But it just sort of fell apart after
that. It went on for a while and I had been warned not to participate. So I figured
I had lost my job by participating. (laughs) It’s a funny story. Just to make a long
story short, I was out for two weeks. At one point, the assistant principal came to
my -- to where I was staying and asked me to come back to work. So apparently,
I was an embarrassment that they didn’t share with their superiors and covered -they covered for me. (laughs) And eventually asked me to come back to work
and I started teaching again. I didn’t get paid for the time I was gone, but I got -I went back to teaching with no penalty. It was a weird situation. (laughs) But...

JJ:

The assistant principal, you said? Came to --

JB:

Yeah, [00:23:00] came to my -- I was living in a friend’s living room. I was living
with a friend in an apartment. And came to that apartment and asked to speak to
me and asked me to come back to work.

JJ:

Now I remember the first time you met Fred Hampton was at your apartment. Do
you recall that at all or...? Fred Hampton of the Black Panthers.

JB:

Right. I recall the meeting; I don’t recall much about it. I know we studied Mao’s
Red Book. There were several Young Lords there. Ralph was there, I think you
had to be there. Fred Hampton was there, several Panthers, myself.

JJ:

And some other Young Lords were there.

JB:

Right. Yeah. There were several Young Lords, several Panthers.

JJ:

What was the meeting like? How...?

JB:

I think it was a study group. Ralph was Minister of Education and [00:24:00] he
was holding study groups. Mainly, they were held in the church.

14

�JJ:

This was before the church.

JB:

I think you were --

JJ:

I had been there a couple times.

JB:

-- yeah. I don’t know if you were starting to use the church more frequently or
something. I’m not sure.

JJ:

Yeah, we were using it but --

JB:

Yeah, I don’t think you had yet taken it over. Right? And --

JJ:

So Ralph was doing the --

JB:

Yeah, so he had invited me as his roommate to come to some of the study
groups and there was an objection because I wasn’t Puerto Rican. So I think he
was trying to have one in our apartment so that I could be included.

JJ:

(laughs) Okay.

JB:

There was also the -- by coincidence, it happened to be the same one that Fred
Hampton was in so...

JJ:

Okay. So you came at that time.

JB:

Right.

JJ:

Okay. So because that is basically when we submitted the idea for the Rainbow
Coalition at that time in one of those meetings. But he had come --

JB:

Yeah, it could be. Yeah.

JJ:

So we were having some -- [00:25:00] so we were having classes in your house
at that time. I know we were meeting.

JB:

Well, I only remember that one. I don’t know if there were others or not. They
might’ve been held while I was at work. I was teaching school still. I had been

15

�already teaching at Waller High School for two years so I went to work every day.
So yeah, so that’s the only one I remember.
JJ:

Okay, so you remember when Fred came there, though.

JB:

Yeah. Of course, that was very memorable because Fred Hampton was there.
Yeah.

JJ:

That was the main one. I think that -- because you mentioned there were other
Young Lords, other Panthers and that. So that was the main one.

JB:

And I remember we had Mao’s Red Book, we were reading out of that and
talking -- discussing that.

JJ:

Okay, at the study groups. That was what was used at the study groups?

JB:

That one in our apartment was Fred Hampton. That’s the one I remember. That
was the only one I was at that I can [00:26:00] remember.

JJ:

Okay. So we were talking about Mao’s Red Book at that meeting -- at the time of
the meeting.

JB:

Yeah. Right. So I think it was basically a political study group.

JJ:

Okay. That we were having. Okay.

JB:

Yeah. There might’ve been other things discussed but I don’t recall them.

JJ:

Right. Okay. And what was the atmosphere? Was it formal or how was it?

JB:

No, it was informal. It was an informal atmosphere. Informal enough so that
after discussion was over, somebody broke out the pot so (laughter) --

JJ:

So that kind of --

JB:

So everybody was participating.

16

�JJ:

Right, afterwards. Okay. So Ralph passed away but he was one of the -- he and
myself designed the button, the Young Lords button.

JB:

Yeah, I remember that button.

JJ:

Right. You remember that button when it [00:27:00] first came out? Okay.

JB:

Yeah. Yo tengo Puerto Rico en mi corazón.

JJ:

Yeah, right. That’s right. Okay, so I know from one perspective but how do you
know Ralph? I mean, he was a roommate, so you saw him every day. But I
mean would -- I don’t --

JB:

Right. No, we got to be close friends. He married before I did. We got married, I
think, in the same year. And so I was best man in his wedding and then he -- I
asked him to be best man in my wedding. Unfortunately on the day of the
wedding, he had to work. So he couldn’t be there at the ceremony. But no, I
mean, we were very good friends.

JJ:

You mentioned the Red Book. Did he talk any other politics at all or...?

JB:

Oh, yeah. You guys took me one Sunday, I remember, one Sunday to -(break in audio)

JB:

-- an [00:28:00] elderly gentleman who was with the communist party and
introduced me to Marxism. I had never done it before. I guess he was holding
like a study group there so that was my introduction to Marxism, actually.

JJ:

Okay. At that time, we were all being introduced (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible).

JB:

Yeah. In the winter of ’68, during the winter break from school, there was a
peace conference up in Montreal. Ralph and I took a bus, I think it was. Or

17

�somehow, we got to Detroit and then we took a train, a Canadian train, when we
got into Canada across the river from Detroit. Took a train to Montreal and
participated in this peace conference. So we were doing all kinds of political
activities like that. When the boycott wasn’t going very strong and Ralph said,
“We need support. [00:29:00] Why don’t we go over to Circle Campus, University
of Illinois? There’s an SDS chapter there.” So we went to an SDS meeting and
we asked for support from SDS. One of the SDS members was a member of the
Progressive Labor Party. That’s how I first met somebody in Progressive Labor
Party.
JJ:

So did you become active in Progressive Labor Party?

JB:

Yeah, I started reading their newspaper and the member that I met at Circle
Campus also lived near Waller High School. He came to visit me and I started
going to some of their meetings and I’ve been involved ever since.

JJ:

Oh, so you’re still involved with the Progressive Labor Party?

JB:

Yeah, yeah. I joined in ’71, 1971.

JJ:

And at that time, were there a lot of groups like the Progressive Labor Party in
Lincoln Park or...? Because it became sort of --

JB:

No. They weren’t exactly in Lincoln Park; They were -- in just a small group in
Chicago.

JJ:

Oh, in Chicago.

JB:

[00:30:00] Yeah.

JJ:

Okay. But Lincoln Park. You lived right down the street from the church.

JB:

Yeah, I lived on Dayton. Dayton and Armitage.

18

�JJ:

When someone says like Manuel Ramos, were you around when that happened
or...?

JB:

Yes. My first wife, Theresa, and I had just gotten married in April of ’69. As I
mentioned, Ralph was supposed to be my best man at the wedding. We were
married in her mother’s house in Maywood but we had our reception in Old Town
in Chicago. Actually, we’d been threatened by some of the same nationalists
who had supported the boycott from Cabrini-Green. They didn’t like the
[00:31:00] fact that we were a mixed couple. Theresa’s African American and I’m
white, right? They actually came to our apartment one time. We knew them
through the boycott so we were friendly to some extent. They appeared at the
door. We were at the kitchen table writing out our wedding invitations and they
came in and started tearing up our invitations and pushing us around. Pulled the
phone out of the wall and left with a couple of our invitations. So at the wedding
reception, a number of Young Lords provided security from our wedding
reception. (laughter) Because we didn’t know if they’d show up or not. They had
the address on the wedding invitation so...

JJ:

Can you tell me about Manuel?

JB:

So yeah, so then Manuel Ramos, right? So as I remember it, we went to [Sal
Delavera?]’s house. I think that was the name. His daughter [00:32:00] was I
think two or something like that. He was having a birthday party for his daughter.

JJ:

I think it could’ve been [Orlando?] and them with Sal.

JB:

Yeah. I won’t argue. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) it could be. It could be,
yeah. I’m not sure.

19

�JJ:

Yeah, I don’t know, I don’t know. I think Sal was arrested in -- during that day,
too, though. So you could be right. I don’t know. I don’t know whose house it
was. I know it was something to do with Orlando’s birthday, maybe Sal’s. I don’t
know.

JB:

Right. So anyway, it was at the birthday party. There were some shots fired
outside. We heard ‘em from inside. Then a few minutes later, somebody said,
“There’s a guy with a gun outside.” So some of us actually went outside to see
this person. There was a guy in jeans, a t-shirt holding a pistol. So we were
outside trying to find out what [00:33:00] he was about and trying to keep him
calm. We didn’t know til later that he was an officer -- police officer. He
eventually fired into the doorway of the house where the party was. And had me
by the arm at that point. I was close to him so he had grabbed me by the arm.
He said he saw a gun in the doorway, he shot into the house. That’s when he
shot Manuel in the eye, he shot Ralph in the jaw. Eventually, the police came. I
don’t know if you already --

JJ:

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible) at that moving?

JB:

At what?

JJ:

He shot him and then what happened? What at that moment?

JB:

Well, at that moment the other police –-

JJ:

Did somebody try to attend to Manuel or to...?

JB:

The police pulled him out. I was still outside. I don’t know what happened inside.
I didn’t know Ralph was shot til later at the hospital. All I remember is that the
police showed up. [00:34:00] It was very chaotic. I remember them -- four of

20

�them carrying Manuel out of the house like a sack of feed and throwing him into
the paddy wagon. I jumped in with them.
JJ:

You saw that?

JB:

Oh, yeah. And I jumped into the back of the paddy wagon with Manuel. He was
bleeding, he was choking on his blood, and I remember there was a towel on the
back of his head so I was holding the back of his head with a towel. I had my
fingers in his mouth so that he wouldn’t –- to try to keep his throat clear so he
wouldn’t choke on his blood. That’s the way we went to the hospital. When we
got to the emergency room, they took him inside. Then outside, I saw [Jackie?]
and I know other people. My wife was there. Eventually realized that Ralph had
been shot, too. I didn’t know that. They told me Ralph [00:35:00] had been shot
and he was in the emergency room, also. So Manuel died about a half hour
later. I don’t remember much about the rest of the night (laughs) except we got
home somehow so...

JJ:

Okay. So you saw Jackie and you saw your wife, and you –-

JB:

There probably were other people there, too. I just don’t recall exactly who.
Right.

JJ:

So you’re not aware if anybody got arrested or anything like that or...?

JB:

I don’t think anybody got arrested at that point. I don’t recall anybody getting
arrested.

JJ:

Okay. And (inaudible) got arrested --

JB:

Ralph never got arrested that I recall.

21

�JJ:

No, no. He didn’t get arrested but there were like four of the Young Lords and
the [Quatro?] Lords would come together.

JB:

Well, okay. That was a detail that I didn’t remember that.

JJ:

Yeah, they were trying to grab the police or something like that.

JB:

Yeah, well probably the people around me. I jumped in the paddy wagon so I –that’s probably why I didn’t get arrested. (laughs) Because I was on my way to
the hospital.

JJ:

Oh, okay. [00:36:00] That’s what happened. So tell me about the –- what other
events do you recall during that time? What do you -- like for example, the
McCormick Seminary where --

JB:

Yeah, I remember –- forget exactly what year that was.

JJ:

I think it was the same year.

JB:

Was that the same year?

JJ:

Actually, right after [Ramos?], right after Ramos.

JB:

[Ron?] Ravos? Okay. So --

JJ:

Because we named the building after (inaudible).

JB:

Oh, the law office or the seminary building?

JJ:

No, the seminary.

JB:

Okay. Yeah, I remember that the –- that you guys took over the McCormick
Seminary administration building. I wasn’t part of the takeover [00:37:00] but I
was aware of the plans and I would often go over after work, after school, and I
would be admitted into the administration building and I would be assigned a
guard duty of some kind.

22

�JJ:

So what was it like inside?

JB:

It was pretty well organized and –-

JJ:

What do you mean by that? I mean, (inaudible) kind of --

JB:

Everybody seemed to have a job to do. I don’t remember exactly the details. I
just remember it wasn’t chaotic or anything. Everybody seemed to know what
they were doin’. They were continually, constantly prepared in case the police
would try to storm the building or take it back. I don’t know. I was part of the
guard duty watching out a window. I was up in the back floor somewhere to let
anybody know if the police approach from that angle. Then later on, I would go
home [00:38:00] afterwards and –-

JJ:

So you didn’t even sleep there. You went home.

JB:

No, I didn’t sleep there that I recall. Yeah.

JJ:

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible) coming and going at the time.

JB:

Right.

JJ:

And press conferences during the day. People –-

JB:

Yeah. I would be at work during the day. I would go home, sleep, go to work in
the morning, and then after work, come back to the McCormick Seminary.

JJ:

So did it have support or apparently, you were supporting it. Were there other
community people supporting it or...?

JB:

Actually, my landlord was a professor there. He couldn’t say so openly but I think
he was in favor of it. Maybe helped to work out the arrangement. They
eventually came up with some money. I don’t know, 60- or 70,000 dollars I think
it was which was used –-

23

�JJ:

Six hundred and one thousand dollars to be invested in low-income housing.

JB:

Oh, was it? Okay.

JJ:

Then also [00:39:00] 25,000 for the law office.

JB:

Well, I understood there was some -- that’s the way it went. Okay.

JJ:

Twenty-five thousand for the clinics. A couple clinics in the --

JB:

Oh, very good. Okay. I didn’t remember all the -- I remember the law office. I
remember that some of that money –-

JJ:

You remember the law office.

JB:

-- opened The People’s Law Office on Halsted. A couple of the lawyers who
worked there, [Skip Andrews?] [Cunningham?], I don’t remember his first name.

JJ:

[Dennis?].

JB:

Dennis? Yeah, [Dennis Cunningham?]. Yeah, I think his son just ran for office in
this ward recently.

JJ:

Oh, did he?

JB:

Or legis-- maybe no, he just ran for state legislature in this area recently. I don’t
remember too much else about it. Oh, they handled the defense -- oh yeah, they
handled the defense, then, I think of the four Young Lords were arrested, right?

JJ:

Right.

JB:

That was one of the first things they did from the law office.

JJ:

Exactly, that’s right. [00:40:00] The People’s Law Office did that because we -they got the initial funds from the McCormick’s Seminary takeover that we did.
So it was successful. We won all the demands. We were there for (overlapping
dialogue; inaudible) --

24

�JB:

It was successful. There was no police takeover, there was nobody arrested that
I recall. Yeah, so it was very successful.

JJ:

So how did -- you were living in the community. Did you know the neighbors or
no?

JB:

Yeah, I don’t know. I can’t remember names right off hand, but --

JJ:

But you knew some of the neighbors?

JB:

Basically, I knew the Young Lords. I knew my students and their parents; Those
were mainly the people I knew.

JJ:

And what were they saying about the Young Lords at that time? Were they afraid
of them or...?

JB:

No, I think they were -- respected the Young Lords because the Young Lords
were the group doing the [00:41:00] most around the housing problems.
Because like I said, mayor Daley was tearing down the Puerto Rican community
and I think it was the beginning of gentrification, regentrification. So there were a
lot of white –-

JJ:

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible) the beginning.

JB:

-- young, white yuppies moving in the neighborhood, buying buildings, renovating
them, raising the rent so the people couldn’t move back in, (inaudible).

JJ:

So you’re saying that was the beginning in Chicago of gentrification or...?

JB:

No, I’m just talking about the Lincoln Park neighborhood which is a very
expensive neighborhood now.

JJ:

Oh, the Lincoln Park neighborhood, okay. Okay, so that was the beginning of the
gentrification?

25

�JB:

Yes. That was the beginning of gentrification of Lincoln Park.

JJ:

At Lincoln Park.

JB:

At Lincoln Park, right.

JJ:

Okay. You said they were destroying the Puerto Rican neighborhood. Why do
you say that? How –-

JB:

I took the Sedgwick bus to school. I lived on Sedgwick at about 1400 Sedgwick
and I used to take the bus then up to [00:42:00] –- the bus stop was two blocks
from Waller High School. So I had a two-block walk every morning from the bus
stop to the high school itself. I just recall several mornings seeing the bulldozers
taking down another house. It seemed like every day, they were tearing down
another house. So if you go to Lincoln Park High School now, you see this
beautiful campus with the tennis courts and the parking and the green lawn, park
area and everything. That all used to be Puerto Rican housing back in ’68, ’69.

JJ:

So this Waller High School expanded, basically. Are there Puerto Ricans living
there at all in any part of Lincoln Park that you know of?

JB:

I have no idea. I moved out in ’75 or ’76, right in there. I don’t get back there
much (laughs) so...

JJ:

Okay. So you haven’t seen the [00:43:00] change.

JB:

When I do go through there, I mean I can see the changes. It’s not recognizable
from what I -- the neighborhood I remember. The Lincoln Park I remember from
’69, ’70. It’s completely different now.

JJ:

Because of Ralph, because you guys were roommates, you were able to get
closer than other people to the Young Lords.

26

�JB:

Yes.

JJ:

What were your impressions or what was -- how did you see them? You knew
them before because you came in ’66 when they were just a little local game.

JB:

Right. I didn’t really know them even then. When you guys came to participate
in the school boycott, that’s when I first got to know you. Then I remember
[00:44:00] going to some meetings at the high school around housing issues.

JJ:

Can you describe how they were? Were they intellectual or what? How were
they?

JB:

I would say they were a militant group that raised good political demands in these
meetings. I also remember one time marching down to –- a small group of us
marching down to a neighborhood real estate office. I don’t remember the exact
name.

JJ:

[Larry?] -- that was Larry’s. His name was [Fat Larry?] but we gave him that
name.

JB:

(laughs) Okay. I think it was an Italian name like [Romano?] or something –-

JJ:

Like Romano, yeah, or something like that.

JB:

-- the name of the real estate company. I was --

JJ:

Bissel Street Realty I think it was called. Bissel –-

JB:

That could be it. Because it was -- yeah, it was a lot. Remember it was west on
Armitage and that’s where Bissel Street would’ve been west of Dayton,
[00:45:00] right? I remember I stayed outside. It was in the winter time, I
believe. I stayed outside because Ralph said it was -- might be tense inside. So
they went in and came out a few minutes later. He said they had -- the people

27

�inside had brought out guns. So I sort of got the impression it was sort of mobaffiliated, you know? (laughter)
JJ:

Because they had guns -- some machine guns.

JB:

Yeah, right. They were big guns; They weren’t little hand guns.

JJ:

So you were outside. Were you picketing or...?

JB:

Yeah, we were outside. We were picketing.

JJ:

There was picketing outside.

JB:

Yeah.

JJ:

And then we went inside.

JB:

Inside.

JJ:

And then they pulled out the guns on us.

JB:

Yeah, that’s what I was told when you guys came out. That’s why you’d left. You
weren’t going to get in a shootout. Obviously, that wouldn’t have helped
anything. But those are the kind of actions. Taking militant actions, direct actions
against the people who were making [00:46:00] money off of this changeover
and gentrification.

JJ:

Okay. So do you know the different institutions that were working with that at that
time?

JB:

I think you guys had started some kind of a breakfast program similar to the
Panthers –-

JJ:

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

JB:

-- at the Methodist church?

JJ:

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible) church.

28

�JB:

Sure. So some of my students I knew had breakfast there, came to school after
having breakfast there and yeah. So for myself and the people I knew in the
community –-

JJ:

So you (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) personally went in there?

JB:

Yeah.

JJ:

Did they talk to you about that or...?

JB:

Probably did. I can’t remember in detail but I was aware that that was
happening. So from my perspective and the people I knew like me and likeminded people in the community and at the school, we had respect for the Young
Lords.

JJ:

So in the school, Waller High School.

JB:

Right.

JJ:

There was respect at that time. Was there respect in [00:47:00] the community
then also or...? The school, of course, there...

JB:

That was my feeling. In the Puerto Rican community and in the people I knew in
the white community and in the Black community in Cabrini-Green.

JJ:

The reason I asked –-

JB:

But then all the people that were trying to get to regentrify and worried about their
property, they were against us.

JJ:

So it was controversial.

JB:

So it was -- yeah, right. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Yeah, it definitely was a
controversial group. It was always my feeling that’s why they changed the name
of Waller High School to Lincoln Park. They’re trying to dissociate themselves

29

�from that reputation that Waller had. Because it was -- in the school and outside
the school, there was a lot of political activity. The boycott was very political and
the Young Lords were leading a lot of political activity around the housing
[00:48:00] issues. To me, having come from a non-political background, I was
just eating it up. That was my education. My political consciousness was coming
about that year of ’68, ’69, and after that. I just continued to grow after that
politically.
JJ:

Did you see any other people or professors or anyone that were waking up at
that time? Was that an impact that the Young Lords were having also with some
people? With some of the people or no? It was also the time, it was also the
time.

JB:

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible) No, I -- yeah, I think it was mainly the times.
There was a lot of stuff going on. Anti-war movement was still growing. I
remember participating in demonstrations downtown. Big demonstrations,
thousands of people.

JJ:

So the Young Lords were the ones that (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) morale
because people were already feeling that way. I’m putting words in your mouth.

JB:

Yeah, I mean [00:49:00] everything sort of flowed together. Those of us -- we
may have been involved -- the centers of our activities may be in different places
but when we got together, we talked the same language. So...

JJ:

Okay. I don’t see that today. But at that time, I felt that there was unity. Was it
just me or did you feel that? Some kind of -- in the community or...?

30

�JB:

As far as anti-racism and anti-Vietnam War, I think there was a lot of unity among
various groups of people and various individuals. I guess I had a unique
perspective because through Ralph as far as the Young Lords go. I guess some
of my friends outside that circle, you know, at school knew I was involved.
People I was close [00:50:00] to.
(break in audio)

JB:

And no one chastised me for being involved with the Young Lords.

JJ:

Actually, many of the Young Lords went to that school. So --

JB:

Yeah, I’m sure.

JJ:

So some of the teachers knew them personally. I mean, I only went to two
months (laughter) but I did know some of the teachers there also. But I know
that all of the Young Lords -- the majority, not all, of course -- but the majority had
gone through there. To Waller High School. The teachers --

JB:

Yeah, right. It was a neighborhood school, right?

JJ:

Right. So coming out in the protest, the teachers would know about that. Were
they being impacted by some of the protests because some of them did come
out in the news, at the local news at that time.

JB:

The protest organized by the Young Lords or the school [00:51:00] protest?

JJ:

Right, right. Well, both. Were they being -- the teachers, were they -- how was
that? (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

JB:

Yeah. There was a small group of us within the school -- actually, it wasn’t even
that small -- who were constantly -- we were caught between the administration
and the militancy of the students. We sympathized with the students. So we

31

�were all -- therefore had our own problems with the administration. I remember
one time, for instance, because the students, one of the tactic was to pull the fire
alarm and empty the building to get everybody out. Sometimes, there’d be fights
outside and people would be injured. We finally said, “We’re not taking our
students out anymore.” The principal said, “No, you can’t do that because of the
fire code.” We said, “We don’t care.” We organized and we overrode [00:52:00]
the principal and we refused to honor the fire bell after that. We set it up so that
we could tell -- we could communicate with each other and find out for sure that
there was no fire going on. But when daily fire bells are happening daily, and so
we just stopped it.
JJ:

So you guys were protesting against the principal. The administration of the
school at the time.

JB:

We didn’t have an open protest but we would refuse to do certain things that they
wanted us to do. In other words, we would support the students to that extent.

JJ:

Right. The students were protesting.

JB:

Yes.

JJ:

So the students were protesting and you were refusing the Young Lords that are
also doing their things. The community is on fire, basically.

JB:

Yeah, there were also -- right. No, there’s a lot of -- yeah, a lot of activity.
[00:53:00] The white liberals in -- at the Concerned Citizens center. The
nationalists and the students coming from Cabrini-Green. Everybody was --

JJ:

The Black nationalists from Cabrini-Green. The projects there, Cabrini-Green.

32

�JB:

Yeah. Everybody was involved in some form. For instance, one of my students - I won’t mention his name because I don’t know right now whether he would
appreciate it. But I went to see him later on in life; Nineteen ninety-seven, I
looked him up and found him. But at that time, he was a young Black male
student and lived in the projects. I think he was about 17. He organized a group
called the Black Assassins. It was a anti-racist group and it was (laughs)
intriguing that he called it the Black Assassins because he had Black students,
he had Puerto Rican students, he had white students in the group. [00:54:00]
They would meet in Black homes, Puerto Rican homes, and white homes. At
one point, they were meeting in the home of a white student in Lincoln Park in
the basement and the police raided the meeting and took them all to jail.
Segregated them into cells, white, Black, and Puerto Rican, and told them that’s
the way it should be. They use as a pre-text that they had confiscated drugs but
none of us believed it. Because we knew the student and he was mainly about
the organizing, political organizing. None of us believed that -- we thought that
just the police probably planted the drugs.

JJ:

So this was the 18th district police station.

JB:

Yeah, 18th district. So --

JJ:

Actually, that was [Commander O’Brien?] at the station.

JB:

So we organized -- yeah, I remember that name now.

JJ:

Because didn’t he go to jail later or...?

JB:

I don’t know.

JJ:

Yeah he did.

33

�JB:

Did he?

JJ:

Yeah, [00:55:00] he went to jail for shaking down (inaudible).

JB:

Oh, good. He deserved it.

JJ:

Yeah. (laughs) He was our commander of the police. (laughs) Yeah, he was
against the Young Lords but he went to jail for shaking down (inaudible).

JB:

This was the kind of thing that was happening up at Waller High School.

JJ:

(inaudible) (laughs)

JB:

Yeah, no. Yeah, but I’m just saying that that’s the kind of thing -- that’s the
relationship with the police. I’m glad you brought that up. Because we went
down after Manuel Ramos was shot, we went down and had a demonstration at
the police station there after that. But to finish the story about the Black
Assassins, so they -- the school tried to kick out the student. In fact, that’s
eventually how I lost my job up there. Any time a Black student or a Puerto
Rican student would turn 16 or 17, whatever the age when they could legally kick
them out of school, they would get out all their records, look for [00:56:00]
discipline problems, they would look for grades, anything. Any excuse to drop
them. So anyway, so this student organized the Black Assassins, they tried to
kick him out. They asked me to sign the sheet and I would not. I refused to sign
him out. So I called his mother and asked if she knew that they were trying to get
him out of the school. She didn’t know. So we organized a sit-in at the school; At
the counselor’s office. We coordinated the time when she would come up to visit
the counselor to inquire about her son. We had it all worked out in advance. We
put out flyers and called for a sit-in. At the time they came up to the school, the

34

�student body and myself and anybody else -- I forget if there were other teachers
involved -- we all went down by the counselors’ offices and occupied the hallway
and sat down. We wouldn’t leave until they let him back in [00:57:00] school.
JJ:

This was the teachers again and the students.

JB:

Mainly students. I don’t know if there were other teachers.

JJ:

You occupied the hallway --

JB:

I remember that --

JJ:

-- of Waller High School.

JB:

Right.

JJ:

So Waller High School was occupied not to mention that DePaul University was
occupied.

JB:

Right. Or the seminary? McCormick Seminary? No?

JJ:

Yeah. No, no, no, DePaul University was occupied by the Black Student Union at
that time.

JB:

Oh no kidding, I didn’t --

JJ:

Right after we occupied McCormick Seminary.

JB:

Oh, very good. I didn’t recall that.

JJ:

Yeah. The Young Lords occupied McCormick Seminary for a week and then the
Black Student Union occupied DePaul. Now, I wasn’t aware of Waller was being
occupied --

JB:

Yeah, just that one afternoon.

JJ:

Right. The hospitals were occupied, there were -- they were occupying --

JB:

Well, yeah. It was 1968. It was like a watershed year. It was a lot of things.

35

�JJ:

But all of this was going on in Lincoln Park, too, in that [00:58:00] community
also.

JB:

Yeah. I think that was in 1970, I believe.

JJ:

Nineteen -- yeah, it was the exact year.

JB:

Because we did try to do the same thing for another student in ’71. The principal
had had enough. He called in the police and they just came in arresting
everybody. I was arrested for trying to keep a student from being arrested and
that’s how I lost my job there.

JJ:

What kind of charge?

JB:

Eventually, it went to court. They charged me with assaulting two cops and the
principal. Those are the charges. I would’ve had felony charges. I went before
the grand jury.

JJ:

You went -- oh, it was a felony.

JB:

Yeah. So when I went to -- finally went to court, to trial, I had an attorney from
the Northwestern University Legal Assistance Clinic, a free clinic, [00:59:00] and
he went into talk to the judge. He said the people from the Board of Education
were there and they said, “We don’t want him teaching anywhere ever again.”
They said in return for that, we’ll agree to reduce the felonies to misdemeanor.
My lawyer was really steamed because there were two different situations in two
different courts. My job was -- had been ruled on by a hearing in front of the
board when they fired me. How did that go? So he said it was unethical. That I
should -- he would be my attorney but that he figured I should -- he agreed on my
behalf to [01:00:00] accept the plea to a lower -- to misdemeanors. I didn’t go to

36

�jail. So I went through the trial but it was a farce. We knew in advance what the
outcome was going to be, that they would find me guilty of misdemeanors
instead of felonies. So I had -- I got two years’ probation.
JJ:

Okay. You got two years’ probation for that?

JB:

Right.

JJ:

And you completed the full two years?

JB:

But my lawyer said that their -- what they did was unethical, what this judge did.
And that he gave me the name of another lawyer. He said, “I can’t represent you
because I agreed to this.” But he said, “Here’s the name of a lawyer. You should
get a lawyer and challenge this and not accept it.” But it was going to cost too
much money.

JJ:

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible) they call a plea deal to --

JB:

To not go to -- to stay out of jail. I mean, a plea deal to stay out of jail. Yeah.

JJ:

You had to plead guilty.

JB:

Yeah.

JJ:

And that was a common thing at that time.

JB:

But see, it wasn’t like you see on TV where [01:01:00] they go before the judge
and say, “We reached this plea agreement.” In other words, the plea agreement
was made undercover in a back room and they went through the farce of the trial
to cover it up.

JJ:

Okay, I gotcha.

37

�JB:

So I was found guilty by the judge who already knew in advance he was going to
reduce it to misdemeanors. But they went through the farce of a jury trial. They
actually had the jury hear the --

JJ:

Oh, it went to the jury.

JB:

-- the jury, yeah, and find me guilty. But I don’t know how they redu-- maybe the
state’s attorney reduced the charges first. But anyway, I was --

JJ:

Had you ever been arrested before or anything?

JB:

No, that was my first time.

JJ:

That was your first time.

JB:

Yeah, I was (laughs) completely unprepared for it. I remember going to court for
the first time. I didn’t even have a lawyer. I was completely bewildered, I was
trying to figure out what to do, and there -- and I’m trying to ask people and
they’re just pushing me aside. So [01:02:00] I finally got a lawyer but like I said, I
went to the legal assistance clinic. And he represented me both at trial and also
at a hearing. I had a hearing in front of the Board of Education when they
actually fired me. Yeah, so that was a lot of activity in those years.

JJ:

Ralph was a member of the Young Lords gang because the Young Lords gang
transformed in 1968. It went right from the gang into the political group. But for a
gang member, how did he act to you? Did he appear like a gang member or...?

JB:

No, no. None of the Young Lords... Of course, I wasn’t familiar with what a gang
was, but I consider the Young Lords my friends and we socialize as well as
participated in political [01:03:00] activities. I was on friendly terms with
everybody.

38

�JJ:

How did they treat people? Just, you know...

JB:

Yeah. I thought they treated people with respect in the community. And they
were fighting for people around the issues of housing as well as racism. But
mainly the one -- the activities I participated in were around the housing issues.

JJ:

Because I know that you’re saying that there was some people who had special
interests in Lincoln Park who referred to the Young Lords as a gang. Because
that has stuck on a lot of people today.

JB:

Right, because they saw it as a threat --

JJ:

They don’t even want to associate with the Young Lords because they were
uncultured or...

JB:

They didn’t bring that up. Mainly, they said that because they felt they were a
threat to their property values.

JJ:

They came right out and said that.

JB:

Yeah.

JJ:

[01:04:00] Okay. So that’s what --

JB:

Otherwise they were constantly asking for police protection. I’m thinking these
are young white guys about my age, right? Why aren’t they seeing what’s going
on? Here they are, very conservative, worried about their property and their
money and all. So I think they saw the Young Lords as a threat to their property
values.

JJ:

Okay, so that’s what they saw as a threat to the property value. Here’s a gang
and --

JB:

Yeah. So they couldn’t characterize them as a gang, right?

39

�JJ:

But before then, it was a Puerto Rican area where they -- at least around the
church.

JB:

Yeah. It still was, it just was fewer and fewer every year. Fewer and fewer
Puerto Ricans living there every year. I left in ’70-- let’s see. I stayed living in the
community even though I lost my job in ’71. I was married [01:05:00] and living a
little up on Kenmore and Webster.

JJ:

Oh, Kenmore and Webster, okay.

JB:

Right. By Roma’s pizza parlor there.

JJ:

Right.

JB:

Yeah. So I was still in the community although at that point, I had a different job
and I was going out of the community to work. So I was no longer working in a
community.

JJ:

Okay. Now, when you saw the church, you saw the murals. (laughs) What type
of impact was that? What were on the murals? What was --

JB:

I’m sorry, I -- that’s all -- no, I don’t remember the murals, either.

JJ:

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible) at all? They were very clear, visible. They were
painted on the church; On the church walls. You didn’t pay attention to it?

JB:

Just vaguely; I couldn’t remember any of the details of it.

JJ:

Not the details but I mean --

JB:

I remember there were murals, yes.

JJ:

Okay, you remember [01:06:00] there were murals. But that didn’t happen at that
--

40

�JB:

But that was one thing that happened and I think the breakfast program. I don’t
know, was there any educational programs? Tutoring, that kind of thing I think
was going on?

JJ:

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Puerto Rican history classes were going on
there. But we had the clinic also. We had a free clinic. (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible)

JB:

Okay. Yeah, I don’t remember all those details. I was probably aware of it at the
time but --

JJ:

So people just can’t --

JB:

-- some things stick out in my mind now at the age of 70 (laughs) and some
things are lost. Some things are coming back to me when you mention names
like the police captain’s name. I recognize that name but I haven’t thought about
that for -- since that time so...

JJ:

Right. It’s on my mind because I’m doing this research. But... [01:07:00]
(pause) Okay, were you at any of the marches or anything like that or...?

JB:

That the Young Lords did?

JJ:

Right. You mentioned one at the police station.

JB:

Yeah, down at the police station that time we visited the real estate office.

JJ:

What about Rev. Bruce Johnson and Eugenia Johnson? Do you remember
when they were killed?

JB:

Yes.

JJ:

What do you remember? I was in jail then. What do you remember about that?

JB:

Oh. I just remember --

41

�JJ:

I got -- he bonded me out to come up to service. The bishop bonded me out to
come to the service.

JB:

I couldn’t tell you if I went to the service or not.

JJ:

But how did that affect -- was there any talk at the school? Or any...?

JB:

I [01:08:00] know people, everybody had a different idea what might’ve
happened.

JJ:

What was the talk at that time?

JB:

Some of the talk of -- let’s see if I can remember. Because I guess they’d been -actually been tied up and something like being executed. I guess some people
may have thought that gangs were involved. Some people may’ve thought it was
just a crazed drug person or something look for money. I don’t know. I really
can’t recall exactly what people were talking about but I just remember
speculating with people about it why. It was a mystery to most -- me and my
friends. We couldn’t quite figure out --

JJ:

But it was being discussed [01:09:00] or no?

JB:

Well yes, it was definitely being discussed. My landlady who was a -- before I got
married, anyway. I moved in with my wife -- my ex-wife, my fiancé at the time.
Moved in with her and her sister in the Lincoln Park area. Their landlord and
later my landlord, his wife was a teacher at Columbia College and I think she
wrote an article about that that was in a major magazine. But I couldn’t tell you
the name of the magazine and I don’t know that I’ve ever read the article. So it
definitely was a topic of discussion in the area, yeah. But that’s as much as I can
remember.

42

�JJ:

But they thought [01:10:00] it could’ve been a gang or some crazy person?
Because they were stabbed multiple times. So it could’ve been a... Some
people even thought it was the Young Lords or was that discussed or no?

JB:

I didn’t think it was and I don’t recall that anybody that I was associated with
thought it was.

JJ:

Why didn’t you think it was?

JB:

Because I knew the Young Lords. That just didn’t sound like Young Lords to me.
I think the Young Lords had a good relationship with the church and the minister
and would’ve respected him for opening up the church. I would imagine that he
probably got some flack for it from his own congregation. To me, the [01:11:00]
Young Lords were my friends. I participated in what they were doing because I
thought it was right so...

JJ:

So you couldn’t -- would be something that it would be something incredible to be
better for you to think that it would be the Young Lords.

JB:

Yeah, somebody would have to show me some really solid evidence before I
would believe anything like that.

JJ:

Okay. But in -- could it have been planned at all? What the Young Lords were
talking was that maybe it was planned by the CIA or somebody like that.

JB:

That I have no (laughs) --

JJ:

Just giving you a different perspective.

JB:

Yeah, I don’t remember that theory or yeah.

JJ:

Okay, now you stayed there since ’75 and then that -- and then after that, what
happened for you?

43

�JB:

[01:12:00] My wife and I split up in -- at the -- in ’74.
(break in audio)

JB:

So eventually, I moved out of the neighborhood and I moved to South Shore
about a year later, maybe six months later. Seventy-five I think I moved out.
Then from South Shore, I moved to this house here.

JJ:

Were you -- did you stay?

JB:

When I was in South Shore, I married my second wife.

JJ:

Okay.

JB:

My current wife, Ellen.

JJ:

Did you stop being active or after that or...?

JB:

No, I continued to participate with Progressive Labor Party.

JJ:

Okay. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) How did it...?

JB:

In the ‘70s, we helped to drive the Nazis out of Marquette Park, for instance.

JJ:

Oh, okay. The Progressive Labor Party did that?

JB:

Right. [01:13:00] We broke the band and they weren’t allowing people to march
into Marquette Park from Englewood, for instance. So we organized a picket line
in front of the Nazi headquarters in fall of -- in the spring of ’77. We still have a
picket line from their headquarters. We had to physically fight them to maintain
the picket line. So we broke that band. We invaded their headquarters, had a
political meeting the following year, and trashed the place and drove the people
out. One of our members was arrested and we supported her through her trials
or through her court case. It never actually went to trial because we kept the
pressure on them until finally, we had a May Day March in May Day of 1979.

44

�They were not able to mop any kind of resistance to our May Day march at the
Marquette Park. The state’s attorney eventually dropped the case. He tried to
reinstate it once. It got dropped once, he tried to [01:14:00] reinstate it once, and
eventually, the Nazis didn’t show up to testify and he dropped the case. There
was a little bit more to it than that but that’s a long story short so...
JJ:

Right. So now, what are you doing now, basically?

JB:

I retired in 1997 as a high school teacher. I’m teaching at the college level,
Chicago State University. I teach part-time. Biology to non-majors. I continue
my activities in the Progressive Labor Party.

JJ:

You’re very active. It sounds like you’re very active in the Progressive Labor
Party. Are you getting higher in position now there or no?

JB:

It’s not -- no, we don’t really have higher positions. [01:15:00] Basically, our clubs
and leaders and we’re active on the campus helping students organize around
student demands.

JJ:

Were you involved with this Occupy Wall Street movement at all?

JB:

Yeah. When it came up, I would go downtown Chicago and students at Chicago
State were affected by it. We helped to organize an Independent Student Union
Chapter last year. That by Thanksgiving time, they were occupying an
administration building around their demands. So yeah, I’m still (laughs) doing
as much as I can. I’m not as energetic as I used to be.

JJ:

In between cutting the little piglets or...? (laughter) I wrote a -- I’m [01:16:00]
(inaudible) an ad into the biology class.

JB:

Oh, the dissection? Yeah, we’re still doing that.

45

�JJ:

You’re still doing that?

JB:

Yeah, I’ll be doing that this semester. Cutting open a fetal pig with the students,
yeah.

JJ:

I don’t know. What else? Is there anything that we haven’t said?

JB:

That we haven’t covered?

JJ:

That we haven’t covered? We didn’t really get into your --

JB:

Yeah, I know -- I don’t remember when Ralph moved out to California. But after
Ellen, my wife and I, got married in ’77, she had been working in California. I met
her when her father died; She came back to Chicago to be with her mother.
Though [01:17:00] when we went back there to visit, I think the first time was on
our honeymoon, we went out there. I had some idea where Ralph was living and
I finally found him through the post office. So I visited him out there. A couple
years later, we went back. I visited him again one more time and then we sort of
lost track. I hadn’t realized he died until you told me this evening. So yeah, I’m
sorry to hear that.

JJ:

Did you ever meet his other family?

JB:

His brother, [Luis?]. I knew [Quinn?]’s --

JJ:

Luis was a Young Lord, too. I was saying --

JB:

Oh, was Luis? I wasn’t sure -- I didn’t remember that. (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible) Yeah. I think I met his father at the wedding. But that’s -- I’ve seen
Luis more than once.

JJ:

Okay. You saw him more than once? [01:18:00]

46

�JB:

Yeah, but just briefly. Let’s see. I knew Quinn; I knew Quinn was a baby. I
remember when Quinn was born.

JJ:

What kind of work did his father do?

JB:

Ralph’s father?

JJ:

Yeah.

JB:

I can’t recall.

JJ:

I know they were from Lake View, too. They were --

JB:

Ralph worked for the airlines. I know that.

JJ:

Oh yeah, he worked for the airlines.

JB:

He worked for American Airlines. He was still working for American Airlines when
he was out in California.

JJ:

(inaudible) got those jobs. (inaudible) like that. [Division P?] was another one
there. But his father, what about the...?

JB:

I don’t recall what his father did.

JJ:

All right. Okay. Anything else that we haven’t covered yet?

JB:

No.

JJ:

You’re living now on the south side.

JB:

[01:19:00] I’m living here?

JJ:

I mean we don’t need to hear this.

JB:

Oh where we are now you mean?

JJ:

You’re not on the north side anymore I mean.

JB:

Oh, no. I haven’t been on -- lived on the north side since ’75.

JJ:

Is this where you’re active here basically or...?

47

�JB:

Yeah, yeah.

JJ:

In this area or...?

JB:

I belong to a group called Unity and Diversity -- [Unity in Diversity?] in this
neighborhood. After I retired, I joined in ’98. It was a group that was organized
around some of the hate crimes in this area. Even though it has a reputation of
being an integrated area, it doesn’t mean that people knew how to get along.
Actually, in the late ‘90s, this was the -- this 19th ward here including Beverly,
Morgan Park, and Mount Greenwood, had the highest number of hate crimes of
any ward in the city. [01:20:00] Ninety-seven, 98. So I got involved in that group.
Since the war in the Middle East or I mean since the war in invasions of Iraq,
there was a peace organization. [South Side of Peace?] was organized. In fact,
I’ll be attending a meeting tomorrow night. So I’m probably involved in too many
things. (laughs) Hard to keep up with everything.

JJ:

Anything else? Otherwise what about for Hampton? Did you follow what
happened to him? Because that was not too long after Rev. Johnson.

JB:

Right. What was that, 1970 I think?

JJ:

Right. Because (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) once; it was a --

JB:

I was aware of it.

JJ:

You were just aware of it.

JB:

Oh, yeah. [01:21:00] Very much aware of it. But I wasn’t in touch with any
Panthers; Didn’t know any Panthers.

JJ:

Okay. But you knew it was like a Rainbow Coalition with the Young Lords and
the Panthers and that or were you familiar with that?

48

�JB:

Not too familiar with that. I knew that there was friendly feeling and we had that
meeting that time in our apartment. My feeling was that the Young Lords were
sort of trying to pattern themselves after what the Panthers were doing.

JJ:

Okay. Do you know any of the programs?

JB:

The only other contact I had with that is in 19-- when I met Ellen in ’76 I believe it
was, she’s a retired attorney.

JJ:

Oh, to your wife?

JB:

Yes. When she came back as I mentioned, she came back to Chicago. So
[01:22:00] she was not a part of any particular --

JJ:

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible) attorney or...?

JB:

No. Although she participated in that trial with the -- she wasn’t an attorney in
court, but they had several attorneys around that Black Panther defense.

JJ:

Which...? Okay, so your wife [Alan?]?

JB:

Right. So she helped --

JJ:

What’s her last name?

JB:

Hirschmann. [Ellen Hirschmann?]. Yeah. So she participated in that defense.
She was --

JJ:

With the People’s Law Office?

JB:

Yeah.

JJ:

Okay.

JB:

She was assigned to go through all these photographs that the Red Squad had
taken all those years to try to find --

JJ:

The Red Squad?

49

�JB:

Remember the police, the Red Squad?

JJ:

What were they? What were they -- yeah, I’m (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

JB:

No, right. I know you know.

JJ:

(laughs)

JB:

This group of police officers in the Chicago police department [01:23:00] that
were assigned to harass radicals or infiltrate radical groups. One of the things
they did to intimidate people was take a lot of photographs at rallies and
marches.

JJ:

They actually were parked 24 hours a day in front of the church.

JB:

I believe that. (laughs)

JJ:

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

JB:

And I probably knew that at the time.

JJ:

The police car was there all the time.

JB:

Yeah, I probably knew that at the time but...

JJ:

So they were in charge of taking photographs and...

JB:

That was one of the things they did. So they were -- you would have to talk to
Ellen. I don’t know what they were looking for but she was assigned to go
through that were involved, those photographs that had something to do with the
Panthers. And look for anything that would be useful in court.

JJ:

Was she to retire now or...?

JB:

Yeah. Her --

JJ:

Or is she...?

50

�JB:

[01:24:00] That wasn’t the main thing she did but that was about the time she
came back to Chicago when that was going on. But she eventually got involved
with representing -- she was part of the -- what was it called? Cook County Legal
Assistance Foundation, something like that. And eventually ended up in private
practice with attorneys who were suing the -- suing Ronald Reagan’s government
for denying social security disability. And Black long benefits to people in Illinois.
So actually, she had a very high winning percentage because they just denied
everybody out of hand. Eventually, the courts finally told them they couldn’t do
that anymore because they were just flooded with these [01:25:00] cases and
they were ridiculous cases so...

JJ:

So she was winning. That’s good.

JB:

Yeah. They had no business denying them in the first place but they just were -that was their policy. Deny everybody and see -- and let you hire a lawyer to
challenge it. Which a lot of people couldn’t do. Unless they could get a lawyer
like in her department, they would do it on a contingency basis. (pause) Like I
mentioned, the last time I talked to Ralph was probably around ’79, ’80 in
California. I’ve never seen Jackie or Quinn.

JJ:

Quinn was his son?

JB:

Son. I think that [01:26:00] was his name, yeah. Since he left Chicago. Since
they broke up. Or anybody else in his family. I don’t think I’ve seen any of the
Young Lords. I remember [Pancho?] getting killed.

JJ:

Jose, Pancho, what do you remember about him? His death?

51

�JB:

It was pretty horrible. I think he was beaten to death with a baseball bat or
something. That’s --

JJ:

Because of his skin, basically. He was dark-complected Puerto Rican, I guess.

JB:

I never knew the circumstances. I just remember hearing about it.

JJ:

Yeah. Something he was defending his brother from another -- like a white gang.

JB:

Oh, I didn’t realize that.

JJ:

Yeah. He was standing up for his brother, yeah. They called his brother names
and he went back and [01:27:00] they got him, basically, so... But that’s the way
he was. Pancho would not be afraid -- he’s a young guy. He wasn’t afraid to tell
them back. But the significant thing about that was that we went to trials and
they said justifiable homicide. Not justifiable homicide but they didn’t arrest
anybody. One of the guys was a brother to a policeman so that’s why they didn’t
arrest him. But we went to his trial and it was like they ignored the Puerto Rican
community, basically. So that was the significance of that trial.

JB:

Of the Puerto Rican Four? Quatro?

JJ:

No, Pancho. Pancho. The Quatro Lords was ma-- right. They didn’t arrest
anybody -- they didn’t arrest James Lamb and they tried to blame --

JB:

Oh Lamb, maybe it was the cop’s name, yeah.

JJ:

They tried to blame the Quatro Lords for it [01:28:00] in the Mauel Ramos case.
What I heard was that they tried to grab the off-duty policeman and were turning
him into the police. Because they didn’t know he was a cop at the time. That’s
what I heard. But I mean I wasn’t there; You were there.

52

�JB:

Yeah. As I recall, they were just simply trying to find out who he was and keep
him calm. Because he had this gun and none of us had a gun going up against
him so...

JJ:

No, I mean after the shooting is what I’m saying. That they jumped on him or
something and they -- that’s why they arrested these four people. (inaudible)
Lords.

JB:

Oh. Oh, that could be. Things happen so fast. I remember going outside, I
remember being -- trying to deal with him, trying to talk to him. I remember him
firing and then I remember seeing Pancho being carried out and I ran [01:29:00]
towards him.

JJ:

You mean Manuel, Manuel.

JB:

Yeah, I’m sorry. Manuel.

JJ:

Manuel Ramos, yeah.

JB:

Seeing Manuel being carried out and I ran toward him. When they threw him in - they just tossed him into the paddy wagon.

JJ:

Were they drunk at the party? They just tossed him into the paddy wagon.

JB:

Yeah, they just tossed him in the paddy wagon. No, no, there was nobody out.
People were drinking. I was drinking. But I’d only had a couple. Nobody was
drunk to the point where they were making bad judgement or something like that.

JJ:

Was it a wild party or...?

JB:

No, it wasn’t. I guess what drew the cop to us was the shots that were fired
outside the party -- outside in the alley. We were having a party so I guess he

53

�figured it had something to do with us, right? [01:30:00] So then after I jumped in
the van, I don’t know what happened after that.
JJ:

So there was some noise in the alley and he came to the party. It didn’t have to
do with the party.

JB:

Right. This was a few minutes later.

JJ:

Okay. Oh, not right away. This was --

JB:

No. We weren’t even sure, at least I wasn’t even sure, that it had -- that there
was any connection. I think we sort of figured this all out later. Because at the
time, things were happening really fast, you know?

JJ:

Uh-huh. Then he just shot into the hallway and that’s where Manuel was
standing?

JB:

Into the doorway of the house.

JJ:

Into the doorway of the house.

JB:

Yeah, so some of us were outside. The cop with the gun was outside and other
people had come. They were all crowded in the doorway looking to see what
was happening. And he fired into the doorway.

JJ:

So all they were doing was trying to figure out what was going on. [01:31:00]
There were people outside already. He actually grabbed your arm and fired.

JB:

Right. And fired. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) At the same time he was
firing, he had one -- he had his left hand on my arm and his right hand -- I think
he was right-handed -- firing the gun.

JJ:

At random. There was no one with a gun there.

54

�JB:

Right. I’m not sure what -- how I responded then. I don’t know if I hit the ground
or what happened but I can’t remember anything until my next memory is seeing
them dragging Manuel out. At some point, other cops showed up. Then I don’t
know exactly when that was so...

JJ:

But you jumped into the paddy wagon and tried to help him.

JB:

Yeah, they just tossed him in like he was a sack of grain. I could see he was
bleeding so I jumped in. Next thing I [01:32:00] know, the doors are shut and
we’re heading toward the hospital.

JJ:

This was like a baptism or something or a birthday?

JB:

It was a birthday party as I recall.

JJ:

For a little girl or...?

JB:

Yeah. Two-year-old daughter.

JJ:

Was somebody -- either Sal’s or Orlando’s.

JB:

Yeah. You can correct me if I’m -- I may be wrong on whose daughter it was but
that’s how I recall it. It was a birthday party. My wife and I were still on our
honeymoon. I think I was supposed to go back to work the next Monday. This
was like the weekend before school started up again. We got married on spring
break.

JJ:

So it was a birthday party. Were there kids in there, too, or...?

JB:

I guess so, yeah. Must’ve been. I don’t remember a lot of kids but --

JJ:

You saw some kids.

JB:

There was -- yeah.

JJ:

Because it was a party for kids.

55

�JB:

It was mainly adults, so I don’t know if it was an excuse to have an adult party
(laughs) or what.

JJ:

[01:33:00] Okay, but it was mainly adults.

JB:

It seemed to me that it was a birthday party.

JJ:

But it was not wild adults. These are family.

JB:

No. No. It was like a family party, right. It was --

JJ:

It was like a family party.

JB:

Yeah. Food and cake and music and everybody having a --

JJ:

And this officer James Lamb.

JB:

The lights were on. It wasn’t dark or anything. Lights were bright and everybody
was talking and having a good time so...

JJ:

Okay. So everybody -- the lights were on, everybody -- it was a family party.
There was some noise outside and people are wondering what it is and it’s --

JB:

We had heard gun shots outside. We knew gunshots had been fired. So I don’t
know how much later it was that somebody came in and said, “There’s a man
outside with a gun. So --

JJ:

As far as you know, it could’ve been him shooting. It could’ve been shooting. As
far as --

JB:

So I followed other people. [01:34:00] Yeah, as far as I knew, I --

JJ:

(laughs) I’m being subjective but --

JB:

Yeah. I’m following other people. I saw other people go out. I think Pancho was
one --

(break in audio)

56

�JJ:

Right. Pancho was there, yeah.

JB:

I don’t recall who the others were and --

JJ:

I know Sal was there. Pancho was there, Sal Delavera --

JB:

I know Sal was at the party, right.

JJ:

The original Pete they called him -- Martinez, [Pete Martinez?].

JB:

Okay, I don’t recall.

JJ:

The original Pete. There was one more but I don’t know if it was Ralph. I don’t
know if it was another --

JB:

Ralph was inside.

JJ:

Oh, Ralph was inside. Okay.

JB:

Yeah, because he was in the doorway.

JJ:

Okay.

JB:

That’s why he -- Pancho was in the doorway, Ralph was in the doorway. Pancho
got shot through the eye, Ralph got shot through the jaw.

JJ:

Manuel got shot through the head.

JB:

I (covers face) --

JJ:

Manuel -- sorry.

JB:

Manuel. I keep --

JJ:

[01:35:00] Ralph got shot through the jaw?

JB:

Yeah. Pancho and I were outside.

JJ:

Okay. And then our thing was we were -- we made a -- we had several
demonstrations. I mean, his funeral was large. But our main concern was that
we didn’t just want the police to get away with that. That’s why it went through

57

�the courts, filled up the courts and all that. But again, they claimed justifiable
homicide so -JB:

Yeah. And also, I remember they tried to cause friction between the [Peace
Dones?] and Young Lords.

JJ:

What do you remember about that?

JB:

I don’t know. We might’ve had more than one demonstration down at the police
station but I remember -- one I remember. We were at the police station and
outside the police station, rather, [01:36:00] at a demonstration. At one point,
Ralph came up to some of us and said that -- was it the Cobra Stones? I think
they had pink [tams?].

JJ:

Cobra Stones (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) --

JB:

Cobra Stones, right, red [tams?]. So there was a bunch of them off to the side
and Ralph said they worried about them. It looked like they were trying to break
up our demonstration or something. But apparently, they went and talked with
them and got -- and reached some kind of agreement. Or they didn’t know
exactly why we were there, maybe. They went over and explained. I wasn’t one
of them but I know some people went over and explained to them what it was all
about. We were able to bring about some unity.

JJ:

This was because we were marching through the projects. We had (overlapping
dialogue; inaudible) to march through the projects to get to the --

JB:

Yeah. We had to get there to get to the [18th?] Street. You had to go down
Division Street because 18th district was on Division Street. Division and [Park?],
right.

58

�JJ:

Eighteenth district police station, yeah. [01:37:00] So we had marched for almost
-- I think it was like five miles or something, right? Or four miles.

JB:

I don’t know what it is. It was a good-size march, yeah.

JJ:

Right, so we marched about three or four miles or five miles to the police station
but you had to go through the projects.

JB:

Right. If you go down Halsted to Division, then you go through the projects.

JJ:

Yeah, so I -- we didn’t want to disrespect the Cobra Stones because that was
their neighborhood. They were looking at us bad because we were bringing
these people through their neighborhood. Later on, they admitted that the gang
intelligence unit had paid them money to try to disrupt that march and also
McCormick Seminary. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)

JB:

I probably knew that. That’s where my -- yeah.

JJ:

So we had the Red Squad and the gang intelligence unit that was at your -- the
group.

JB:

Right. Now, see this is another reason why I didn’t see the Young Lords as a
gang. Because gangsters would’ve [01:38:00] taken offense and things would’ve
escalated, right? But Ralph is saying, “Let’s figure this out. Let’s develop some
unity here.” I guess that’s how they found out by talking with them that they had
been approached by the police.

JJ:

And he was the Deputy Minister of Education, Ralph Rivera --

JB:

Yes, that’s what I remember.

59

�JJ:

And so you remember that class of the Red Book so they were using the Red
Book and Fred was there. Fred Hampton was there at that time. So did you get
to know Fred Hampton? You got to meet him?

JB:

I got to meet him but we didn’t get chummy or anything.

JJ:

Okay. But it was more relaxed. When we were -- the Young Lords and the
Panthers were together, they were (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).

JB:

Oh yeah, it was very informal. Yeah.

JJ:

Informal.

JB:

It was formal to the extent of it was a study group [01:39:00] and so we studied
and we had something to study and there was a discussion. But then afterwards,
it was socializing.

JJ:

Right. I know Fred Hampton never used marijuana. I just want to make that
clear. I know that for a fact.

JB:

Okay, well I don’t --

JJ:

That’s not saying that I didn’t use it but --

JB:

Right. (laughs)

JJ:

But he definitely didn’t do it. I want to make that clear.

JB:

Yeah.

JJ:

But it was informal. It was relaxing and we were in a coalition with the Panthers.
So we were in the Rainbow Coalition.

JB:

Yeah. I wasn’t involved in those things but --

JJ:

No, you were not involved in it. Yeah.

JB:

-- but that much of the business of the Young Lords but --

60

�JJ:

But I didn’t know why we were meeting. I didn’t know that that was Ralph’s
house, too.

JB:

Yeah, we were roommates.

JJ:

Yeah, see I didn’t know that. That’s why we used to use that house a lot.
(laughter) While you were in school teaching.

JB:

Well, it was fine with me.

JJ:

No, that’s fine. They used my house, too, until I [01:40:00] got evicted.
(laughter) Some of it was prior to the church takeover. And then after, it was
(inaudible), too. Yeah. The church takeover was like one day and the next day,
we were working together, right?

JB:

Yeah.

JJ:

It was just one day and then we decided, “This is not a takeover,” because Rev.
Johnson was with us. You understand what he said? “We’re not going to
disrespect you. This is not a takeover. Let’s just set up the programs.”

JB:

(overlapping dialogue; inaudible) Yeah, it seemed to be a good relationship
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible) between at least the minister and the Young
Lords. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) He must’ve had some support from his
congregation.

JJ:

We had some support from the congregation but a lot of the congregation didn’t
want us there.

JB:

Yeah, I believe that.

JJ:

But the (inaudible) especially. (laughs) There were some (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible).

61

�JB:

(laughter) Oh yeah, no. I can believe that.

JJ:

But okay. Any final thoughts?

JB:

[01:41:00] I’ll probably remember some things tomorrow but right now, I can’t
think of anything.

JJ:

Okay. So that’s it? We’re going to end there or...?

JB:

Yeah, I’ll leave it up to you. If you have other questions, I’ll be happy to answer
them.

JJ:

I think we covered. I mean what you’re doing now, you’re at Chicago State,
you’re working with the Progressive Labor Party still.

JB:

Still, yeah.

JJ:

Okay. Did you guys work at all in the journey to (inaudible) Washington
timeframe or...?

JB:

No, we’re not involved in electoral politics.

JJ:

In electoral politics?

JB:

Yeah.

JJ:

Okay. So you guys didn’t like the fact that I ran for Alderman. (laughter) Things
happen, right?

JB:

I wasn’t -- I probably wasn’t --

JJ:

You’re allowed to make mistakes. (laughs)

JB:

I don’t vote, but on the other hand --

JJ:

Is that how you look at it? We’re allowed to make some mistakes, right?
(laughter)

JB:

But knowing you, I would’ve probably figured you had good intentions.

62

�JJ:

All right. We looked at it as a -- just an organizing vehicle. We didn’t believe
[01:42:00] that through elections, we were going to make change. But we looked
at it as an organizing vehicle and we did pretty well getting 39 percent of the vote
so --

JB:

Yeah. I don’t know that at some point, we might not do the same in the
Progressive Labor Party if we see it useful as a vehicle but --

JJ:

It was survival, too. They were trying to destroy the group so that was one way
to keep our group in the public eye.

JB:

Oh, okay. Yeah. It’s --

JJ:

So that was another reason that we did that. We got criticized for -- from the left,
from some on the left.

JB:

Yeah, I’m sure.

JJ:

But we’re okay. We’re okay with it. I think we covered... Any -- in your life
personally that you think that people should know about you and your family?

JB:

(pause) I’m [01:43:00] happy that my wife supports me in my political work and
my children. They’re not members of Progressive Labor Party but they’re not
giving me grief for being there, being a communist. So they don’t necessarily
agree with everything but I’m happy to have a family that was able to survive the
high school years without getting in drug -- involved in drugs or anything like that.
Let’s see, seven out of eight are working. My kids and their spouses or fiancés
(laughs) and stuff; That’s good.

JJ:

Any good things happening at Chicago State or...?

63

�JB:

It’s an interesting story because when I [01:44:00] started teaching at the college
level, I started teaching at [Daley City College?]. Wayne Watson was the
chancellor over the City Colleges. He’s now my boss again at Chicago State.
But when I was at City Colleges as a part-timer, half the classes were being
taught by part-timers. We had no union organization. We were getting low or
very low wages, very few benefits. The pension was all, the pension plan. So
we organized a union. As a result, it was -- I didn’t keep my job very long. They
found ways to ease me out. Part-timers, we -- basically, we renew our contract
every semester. When we turn in our grades, we’re basically unemployed. So
my contract wasn’t renewed so I got a job at Chicago State and all of a sudden, I
see the same guy’s (laughs) over there, my boss. So [01:45:00] not happy about
that but I’m happy to be working with my colleagues and I’m happy to be working
with the students so... I still take the side of the students against the
administration. (laughs)

JJ:

We’ll leave it there.

JB:

Okay.

JJ:

Thank you.

END OF VIDEO FILE

64

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&#13;
The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. </text>
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spa</text>
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              <text>John Boelter vídeo entrevista y biografía</text>
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                <text>Boelter, John</text>
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                <text>John Boelter was one of the Chicago Teachers Union members on strike in September 1968 at Waller  High School, known today by its new name, Lincoln Park High. Today he is a Professor of Biology at  Chicago State University. In 1968, a prominent Young Lord, Ralph “Spaghetti” Rivera returned from  Puerto Rico and subleased a room from Dr. Boelter. Mr. Rivera, who grew up in Lakeview, wanted to be  closer to the Young Lords who were then hanging out in front of the Armitage Avenue United Methodist  Church which later to become the People’s Church, on the corner of Dayton Street and Armitage  Avenue. In Puerto Rico, Mr. Rivera had been hanging out with M.P.I. (Movimiento Pro Independencia)  and F.U.P.I. (Federacion Universitaria Pro Independencia) their student auxiliary, at University of Puerto  Rico campus in Rio Piedras. He was going through a political transformation. Upon arriving in Chicago,  Mr. Rivera soon discovered that his Young Lords colleagues were also going through a transformation.  They had been reorganized once again by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez and the members were struggling  with each other on whether to remain apolitical as just a gang or to become a human rights movement.  Mr. Rivera joined in fully to help Mr. Jiménez, and they together designed the original Young Lords  button that read, “Tengo Puerto Rico En Mi Corazón ( I have Puerto Rico in my heart) with a green map  of Puerto Rico in the center, and a brown arm and fist holding a rifle. The initials YLO, which stood for  “Young Lords Organization,” was at the bottom. They had added organization to their name, to make it  clear that they were now involved in a class struggle, fighting for Latinos, the poor, and for Puerto Rican  self-determination. Mr. Rivera became one of the Young Lords’ first P.E. (political education) class  teachers, as these sessions were being held in the different homes of members including. LP Records of  speeches by Malcom X, Fidel Castro, Don Pedro Albizu Campos, Mao Tse Tung’s Little Red Book, the  National Question, Panther films, and Saul Alinsky strategies were being used as tools for study. It was in  Mr. Boelter’s and Mr. Rivera’s house where Chicago Black Panther Party Chairman Fred Hampton and  the Panthers first arrived on Dayton and Armitage. They were led from the corner to the house to meet  Dr. Boelter, Mr. Rivera, Mr. Jiménez, and the Young Lords. The Black Panthers broke bread and drank  Wild Irish Rose (Fred Hampton did not drink or use drugs) on ice, smoked some weed, and joked a little,  cementing a relationship that has lasted to this day. On a different day within a few weeks at the same  location, it was informally agreed to join together with the Young Patriots. BPP Field Marshall Bob Lee  was working with them. The three groups, who were already major players within their own  communities, became the original members of the alliance known as the Rainbow Coalition. This was  followed by several press conferences announcing the Rainbow Coalition, including one where  Congressman Bobby Rush, appears in a photo with the Young Lords, Young Patriots and other Black  Panthers but where Mr. Jiménez and Mr. Hampton were unable to be present. The Rainbow Coalition  was strongly woven together to the credit of the organizations that took part in it. They all were  committed and followed the same vanguard ideology of the BPP. But it is significant to note that the  Rainbow Coalition was more symbolic than a structured organization. It was the mass way for all the  grassroots organizations to find common ground and to join together for support of each other’s  struggles, and it soon spread to other movements and groups like Rising Up Angry, the Intercommunal  Survival Committees, Red Guard, Brown Berets, S.D.S. and many other groups in many cities. After the  Young Lords went underground and the Puerto Rican and low income residents of Lincoln Park were  completely removed by Mayor Richard J. Daley and his patronage machine, Dr. Boelter moved south to  Morgan Park. Dr. Boelter also joined the Progressive Labor Party. The Progressive Labor Party had left  the Communist Party years before, because their belief was that “they want to skip the Dictatorship of  the Proletariat and go right into utopia.” They are against racism and respect workers, but do not want  to cling on to leaders or unions, preferring to organize the masses. They have been accused of “catering  more to the petty bourgeoisie and the aristocracy of labor.” Then they rejected the Black Panthers and  Young Lords use of Nationalism as an important step. They also had become part of S.D.S. and by 1969  were their largest faction. Dr. Boelter today is still a member. These political discussions on all sides  were part of the Lincoln Park era in the late 60s and 70s.</text>
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                <text>Jiménez, José, 1948-</text>
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                <text>eng</text>
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            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="446706">
                <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en"&gt;In Copyright&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="446707">
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                <text>2012-08-20</text>
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                <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: World War II
Interviewee name: Clyde Boerman
Length of Interview: (00:54:46)
(0:08:50)Pre-Enlistment





Before the war, he worked at General Motors.
He quit his job and enlisted in the Navy.
He was 26 when he enlisted.
He enlisted in 1943.

(0:00:51) Active Duty




Duty Locations
o Assigned to a Naval Base in Washington. Worked on a Destroyer that was
responsible for torpedoes.
o Moved from Washington to Rhode Island where he trained.
o He was then sent to New York to be deployed to England. They ran into
some German submarines off of the coast of New York, and so they
diverted to Scotland and then eventually to England.
o (0:02:40) He was part of the attack on D-Day.
 Recalls an episode off of the coast of France where his boat had to
rescue another destroyer off of the coast of France.
o He spent most of his time patrolling the waters off of the coast of France.
o (0:08:15) After his time off of the coast of France, he was sent to the
Pacific via Boston, MA.
o (0:10:25) His first stop in the Pacific was New Guinea. He was there for 2
days then headed to the Philippines.
o (0:12:35) From the Philippines he went to the Dutch East Indies where
they.
Experiences
o (0:13:20) His main job was to take care of the torpedoes, a position called
Torpedo Man.
o Came into contact on one occasion with a German sub.
o Recalls being very close to the shore on D-Day.
o Was in the Navy for 3 years and 3 months.
o (0:25:10) Didn’t come into much contact with the Japanese while he was
in the Pacific.
o During leave, they would go to the different cities around the ports they
stopped at.
o (0:29:20) Attained the rank of Third Class Torpedo Man.
o Recalls while crossing the Atlantic that they once ran into forty foot
waves.

�o The most their boat was out was for a week at time, but usually they were
in very close to shore.
o They had a Filipino on their boat while they were in the Pacific that acted
as a translator for their boat.
(0:20:41) After the Service
 After the war, he came home to Grand Rapids, MI and started to look for a job.
 Had a couple different jobs after the War. He spent 50 years at one manufacturing
job. He also worked on the Board of Education.

�</text>
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                  <text>The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.</text>
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                  <text>1914-</text>
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                  <text>Smither, James&#13;
Boring, Frank</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Orville Boerman
Korean War
(33:40)
(00:25) Background Information






Orville was born on October 22, 1933 in Allegan County, Michigan
His parents were farmers, but lost their farm during the Depression
His father then worked for another farmer and was able to buy his old farm back in 1942
Orville quit school when he was 16 and began working in a factory and helping his father
on the farm
He was drafted into the Army in May of 1953

(03:05) Training
 Orville was sent to Fort Knox, Tennessee for basic training and often had guard duty
 They spent a lot of time marching, working with artillery, and he also had KP
 Orville was in basic training for 8 weeks and then went through truck mechanic school
for another 8 weeks
 He worked on jeeps, ¾ ton Dodge pick-ups, and 2.5 ton trucks
 Orville had one week on leave to go home before he was sent overseas and he got
married while back home in Michigan
 In March of 1954 he was sent to Germany on a troop ship and they experienced very bad
weather on the way
(10:15) Germany
 There were some parts of Germany that were sill bombed out from the war, but the
countryside was very pretty
 Orville worked on a base about 45 miles from Frankfurt with a transportation company
 They helped move around an artillery unit and its supplies
 Orville was in charge of maintaining 10 trucks
 They had alerts about once a month to train for a Russian attack
 They would train near the Czechoslovak border and could hear Russians on the other side
blowing off cannons
(15:40) Living on Base
 They did not have not much contact with civilians
 Orville did not like to drink so he did not go out much, but did like to go bowling and
travel around the countryside and saw quite a few old castles

�




There were some Germans working on their base, but mostly just service work
Orville wrote letters back and forth with his wife and called her on Christmas; it cost $24
for a 3 minute phone call
He did get to see the autobahn and thought it was very impressive
The trucks he worked on did not break down very often, but there was a lot of routine
scheduled maintenance

(21:45) End of Service
 Orville had been stationed near the Rhine River and when his time was almost up he
planned on taking a week off to visit France, Belgium, and the Netherlands
 Right before he was about to leave, his trip was cancelled because he had to stick around
for yearly IG inspection of all the vehicles and equipment
 Most men in Germany had to stay one year before being sent back to the US
(26:30) Discharged
 Orville left Germany in April 1955, though many had tried to get him to re-enlist; he was
told he would be promoted to sergeant and that his wife could live with him in Germany
 Orville went back to his old job working on the railroad, but was later laid off
 He began working in maintenance at a hospital and then later for Grand Valley College
 Orville eventually got a job working in a GM plant in Coopersville, Michigan and later
retired

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans' History Project
Bert Boersma
World War II
1 hour 32 seconds
(00:00:10) Early Life
-Born in Moline, Michigan
-Most likely in 1925
-Grew up on a farm until his family moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan when he was 14
years old
-Parents were not farmers by trade, but knew how to grow crops
-Useful during the Great Depression because they could grow their own food
-Father was a contractor in Grand Rapids
-He was one of eleven children
-Youngest child was born after they moved to Grand Rapids
(00:01:40) Start of World War II
-Paid a lot of attention to the events happening in Europe in the 1930s
-Parents came from the Netherlands
-When Germany overran the Netherlands, his parents were shocked
-He was home and the news was on the radio
-Heard President Roosevelt's "Day of Infamy" speech about the attack on Pearl
Harbor
-Wanted to get into the service and have revenge on the Japanese
-In high school when Pearl Harbor happened
-Saw a lot of young men enlisting and getting drafted out of high school
(00:03:40) Getting Drafted
-Finished high school in 1942 and got drafted either later that year, or in early 1943
-Reported to Fort Custer, Michigan for processing on February 26, 1943
(00:04:26) Basic Training
-Sent to Camp Roberts, California for basic training
-Got sent cross country by train
-Got to sleep in Pullman cars with actual beds and eat in the dining car
-Camp Roberts was beautiful with the mountains for a backdrop
-Started basic training at the end of the rainy season, so they trained through the dry
season
-Most likely in early spring 1943
-The dry brush would catch fire from the artillery shells being fired into the hills
-Something that he had never experienced
-The trainees would be used to combat the wildfires
-Knew what to expect after being processed at Fort Custer
-First time that he had ever been exposed to so much swearing
-Had spent some time in the Michigan National Guard, so the Army wasn't totally
foreign
-A lot of the training was close order drills, weapons training, marching, and 25 mile

�hikes
-Trained with rifles, machine guns, and mortars
-Men would fall asleep while they were on the long hikes
-It happened to him
-Also had to eat breakfast while they were hiking
-The base wasn't new, but not old either
-All of the men that he trained with were draftees
-A lot of them came from Grand Rapids and he knew some of them
-After training they got split up
-Basic training lasted ninety days
(00:09:27) Assignment to the 33rd Infantry Division &amp; Deployment
-Assigned to the 130th Infantry Regiment of the 33rd Infantry Division
-Illinois National Guard unit that had been called up before the war
-Unit had trained on Mt. Rainier, Washington
-Sent down to the Mojave Desert
-He joined them before they went overseas
-First duty station was on Hawaii guarding the islands
-The division arrived on July 12, 1943
-Spent nine months on Hawaii
-Received some jungle training
-Spent six months on the island of Hawaii
-Sent three months on the island of Kauai where they received jungle training
-Sent to Pearl Harbor and boarded a ship bound for Finschhaefen, New Guinea
-Didn't get to see Pearl Harbor because they got there, and left, at night
-Sailed from California to Hawaii on a converted cruise ship
-It was his time being on the ocean
-Did not get seasick
-Sailed from Hawaii to New Guinea on another converted cruise ship
(00:12:58) Arrival in New Guinea
-When they arrived, all they could see was coconut groves
-Already had a base and an airfield at Finschhaefen
-Arrived during the raining season
-Unit arrived on May 11, 1944
-Went to a bivouac area where the mud was knee deep
-Men would fall into bomb craters and nearly drown
-Had to dig a drainage ditch to the ocean
-Once they got rid of the water it started to look more like a camp
(00:15:00) Stationed on New Guinea
-Stayed there for six months
-Received some jungle training and went on patrols
-Some units landed further up the coast and on other islands of the Dutch East Indies
-He was not involved with those landings
-On patrol and followed a trail that cut through the jungle and over the hills
-He found a primitive village with buildings on stilts
-Villagers were afraid, but a young boy approached him
-Able to speak in broken English

�-Explained to Bert that, "Yanks come, Japs run"
-Turned out that it was a settlement established by German
Lutherans
-Japanese moved farther up the coast and took over Biak and Hollandia
-He did not encounter any Japanese troops while he was on New Guinea
-It was wet, jungle rot was common, and malaria was rampant
-Had to take atabrine to prevent malaria
-Not enjoyable, but necessary
-His regiment worked on the docks loading, and unloading ships
(00:19:36) Stationed on Morotai
-Moved to Morotai in the Dutch East Indies closer to the front line
-Arrived after the invasion and the airfield was secured
-Most likely in late December 1944
-Every night there were air raids targetting the runway
-Could repair the runway quickly
-Bombers would leave before dawn, hit targets as far away as Borneo, and return by
sunset
-Bombers would come back heavily damaged, hit the runway, and veer off into
the jungle
-There were still Japanese forces on the island
-It was their job to hunt down the remnants and eliminate the Japanese
-The living conditions were similar to how they were on New Guinea
-Hot, and humid
-Remembers on a patrol they ran out of water and found a pool of stagnant water
-One soldier drank that water out of his helmet and chased it with chlorine pills
-Supposed to let the pills treat the water first, but he was unharmed
-Found some Japanese camps
-Got rid of them
-Survivors fled into the jungle
-A Company, his company, took no casualties
-B Company lost five men and were buried in the jungle
-A Company was sent to recover the bodies a week later
-The bodies were bloated and stinking
-Carried them on bamboo stretchers to a stream then put them on a
raft
-Floated the bodies down the coast and the Navy picked
them up
-Worked on docks loading and unloading ships
-Got moved out to a ship and would get ferried to Morotai to work on the docks
-Ships began assembling to move to the Philippines
(00:26:55) Stationed in Luzon
-Moved to Lingayen Gulf in Luzon after the initial invasion of Luzon
-By now it was early 1945
-Unit arrived on February 10, 1945
-Safe to go ashore when they arrived
-Relieved the 43rd Infantry Division

�-Japanese had been holding a position at an intersection for quite a while
-Saw a bit of action pushing the Japanese out
-He was promoted to the rank of staff sergeant and was leading a squad of twelve men
-Remembers a patrol near the summer capitol of Baguio and found money on the
road
-Silver pesos that had been buried and an artillery shell hit the location
-Reported it to the company commander
-Went back out with a platoon to guard it
-Marines went out to collect the money
-He never got any credit for finding, or reporting, the money
-Met some Filipino civilians
-Saw a lot of Filipinos on the roads between the American line and the Japanese
line
-The Japanese had viciously oppressed the Filipinos
-Tried to give them a hand whenever they could
-Extra food or water
-Language barrier caused some problems, but could tell they were
appreciative
-Had some Filipino soldiers attached to his unit
-Took some Japanese prisoners
-A lot of Japanese soldiers refused to surrender
-Some feigned surrender and approached with a live grenade
-Many would rather die for the Emperor than surrender in shame
-Found some Japanese soldiers in a house that surrendered willingly
-Sent them up to company headquarters
-They all looked pretty sickly
-Lived in tents, or in foxholes
-It got cold in the mountains
-Always caked in sweat and mud
-Swam in streams to try and get clean
-Only new clothes that they carried was an extra pair of socks
-No toothbrush, or toothpaste
-Would be in the field for a few days to a month at a time
-Lived off of C Rations
-In the rear you could get mail and write home
-Chance to reassure loved ones that you were okay
-Also a chance to take a cold shower
(00:37:34) Hill 1802 &amp; Mount Bilbil
-Took one hill called Hill 1802
-A Company snuck around the Japanese from behind and took the hill
-Stayed on Hill 1802 for a week
-Started with 40 men in his platoon, and only nine when they left the hill
-Probably the worst experience during the war
-Had no artillery support except for the small mortars that they had brought
-This was on Mount Bilbil
-Survived on air-dropped supplies

�-Had to resist multiple Japanese counter attacks
-Ordered to hold the hill at all costs
-Company commander eventually decided that they needed to get off the
hill
-Retook Mount Bilbil with artillery support three or four weeks later
-Got his Bronze Star on Mount Bilbil
-After an artillery barrage he charged a Japanese position and forced them to
surrender
-Took Mount Bilbil before moving on to the city of Baguio
(00:42:49) Near Death Situations
-Nearly got killed when a mortar exploded above him
-Protected by a bandolier hanging in a tree
-Multiple times when he was under machine gun fire
(00:43:35) End of the War
-Stationed on Luzon until the war ended, formally, in September 1945
-Receiving amphibious training for the planned invasion of Japan
-Heard the news that the atomic bombs had been dropped
-Didn't know what the bomb was, but it sounded like an incredibly destructive
weapon
-Gave them hope that the war would end
-When they heard that the Japanese surrendered tears were shed
-A lot of men offered up prayers of thanks
-Knew that Japan would have fought to the last man in an invasion
(00:46:25) Occupation Duty in Japan
-Sent up to Japan for occupation duty
-Landed at Nagoya on Honshu on September 25, 1945
-Had to be escorted into the harbor by the harbor master because the water was
mined
-Took a long time to maneuver into the harbor
-Boarded landing craft and went ashore
-Faced no resistance or hostilities
-Saw a billboard that said, "Kilroy was Here"
-Took a train to Kobe
-Area had been flattened
-Took over an abandoned Catholic monastery
-Learned that it was a Chinese settlement
-Overlooked Kobe
-All you could see was rubble, and people living in the rubble
-Moved to an old Japanese barracks in Himeji
-Saw Japanese civilians
-Showed extreme deference toward, and fear of, American soldiers on his first
pass
-Second time was much different
-Civilians learned that U.S. troops were friendly
-Biked through some villages
-Met a Japanese girl fluent in English

�-She invited him to meet her brother
-Brother wanted to get into the black market
-Bert declined because he didn't want to get in
trouble
-Black market was active
-Men would use cigarettes to buy prostitutes
-His duty in Japan was to simply maintain an American presence
(00:54:06) Coming Home &amp; End of Service
-Left Japan in November 1945 on a troopship
-Arrived in Portland, Oregon
-Took a train to Fort Sheridan, Illinois and got discharged in December 1945
-Parents, sisters, and girlfriend picked him up in Chicago
-Visited his brother at Great Lakes Naval Station which is also in Illinois
(00:55:37) Life after the War
-Enrolled at Calvin College in Grand Rapids
-Shortly after that he contracted malaria
-Atabrine was out of his system and the disease became active
-Had chills, fever, and nausea
-Eventually had to drop out of college after a year and a half due to the
illness
-Advised by his doctor to get an outdoor job to regain red blood cells
-Got a job at a lumber company
-Worked for Consumers Energy then went to work in auto sales for the rest of his life
(00:59:09) Reflections on Service
-Had a war to fight, and a battle to win
-War is hell, especially for those on the front lines
-Wouldn't wish that on anyone

�</text>
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                <text>Bert Boersma was born in Moline, Michigan in 1925. He graduated from high school in 1942 and was drafted in early 1943. He reported at Fort Custer, Michigan on February 26, 1943 for processing, and was then sent to Camp Roberts, California for basic training. His training lasted ninety days, and after that he went to join the 130th Infantry Regiment of the 33rd Infantry Division. He was stationed with that unit in Hawaii for nine months receiving jungle training before moving on to New Guinea in May 1944 where he stayed for six months conducting patrols and handling cargo from ships. He moved on to the island of Morotai in December 1944 where he saw his first action routing the remaining Japanese troops. He moved on to the island of Luzon in February 1945 and saw major action there at Hill 1802 and Mount Bilbil where he received a Bronze Star. After the war ended he was part of the occupation force in Japan in Nagoya and Himeji. He stayed in Japan until November 1945 and was sent home and got discharged at Fort Sheridan, Illinois in December 1945.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Korean War
Murl Bogert
(15:18)
Background Information (00:08)




Served in the Korean Conflict (00:09)
Enlisted in the Marine Reserve in 1950 prior to the outbreak of the Korean War. (00:28)
He was deferred from going overseas for 1 year due to his physical condition (00:45)

Overview of Service (1:04)












He attended basic training for 6 weeks at Parris Island, South Carolina. (1:04)
After basic he was sent to California for 2-3 months for Advanced Combat training. (1:11)
He was sent to Korea aboard a troop ship. (1:26)
He landed in Korea on July 4th 1952. (1:35)
Murl was then sent to P’anmunjom Korea. (2:08)
He spent 6 months at P’anmunjom where he sent supplies to troops in the surrounding area by
train. (2:33)
Murl was in what was considered a peace radius. Men were not supposed to carry ammunition
in this radius. There was, however, a tank battalion next door to Murl’s position. (3:10)
He was then sent to Ascom city where he did more supplies transport. (3:52)
He was given a 30 day leave while in Korea. (4:26)
On January 1st 1954 Murl was discharged. (4:53)
Discharge papers. (5:28)

Medals an Memorabilia (5:54)








He received an award for being an outstanding recruit in boot camp. (5:54)
In 2003, Murl won a lottery to send several veterans of the Korean War to Korea for week.
(6:50)
In 1953 Murl thought Seoul Korea was in shambles. When he saw it in 2003 he was taken aback
by how nice it was. (8:14)
Campaign ribbons (Korean Service Medal, Presidential Citation Medal, and National Defense
Service Medal). (9:06)
This medal was received through the American Legion. (10:30)
Pictures of service. (10:40)
He was awarded a medal by the Commanding General of the Marine Corps when he was in
Korea in 2003. (11:18)

Slide Show of Pictures (12:37)

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans' History Project
Raymond Boisvenue
Vietnam War
47 minutes 17 seconds
(00:00:21) Early Life
-Born in Trenton, Michigan on December 3, 1945
-Small town
-Attended a Catholic school for elementary school and went to a public school for high school
-Attended Eastern Michigan University
-Majored in accounting
-Loved accounting after taking a bookkeeping class in high school
-Father was from Quebec, Canada
-Mother was from Ohio
-Had three brothers and one sister
-Father worked as a supervisor at The Detroit Edison Company (now DTE Energy)
-Mother stayed at home and took care of him and his siblings
-Played baseball with friends and ran track &amp; cross country in high school
-Ran in college for a year or two, but quit to focus on work and studies
(00:03:15) Getting Drafted &amp; the Vietnam War
-Got drafted after he graduated from college
-Worked for a year and a half before receiving his draft notice
-Drafted in 1968
-Vietnam War had been going on for a while when he got drafted
-Heard about antiwar sentiments
-Had mixed feelings about the war
-Went to Detroit for his draft physical
-Considered going to Canada, but decided against it
(00:04:30) Coming Home Pt. 1
-Coming home from Vietnam wasn't too bad
-Left San Francisco early in the morning to fly back to Detroit
-Able to avoid protestors
-Nobody expressed any negatives sentiments about the war toward him
(00:05:50) Basic Training
-Received basic training at Fort Knox, Kentucky
-He was 22 years old while most of the recruits were 18 or 19 years old
-Assigned to be a training platoon leader
-Did physical training
-Had to do a mile run in ten minutes
-He had no problem with that
-Remembers that he had to help a 300 pound recruit do the run
-If that recruit didn't pass, then Raymond didn't pass
-If they didn't pass they would have to try until they did
(00:07:50) Advanced Infantry Training
-Received advanced infantry training in Louisiana
-Note: Most likely at Fort Polk
-Didn't think that he was fit for combat

�(00:08:22) Service in Vietnam Pt. 1
-His degree in accounting helped him get a good job in Vietnam
-Had many acquaintances and got along well with the men in his unit
-Part of the 9th Infantry Division operating in the Mekong Delta of South Vietnam
-Originally supposed to go on patrols with the infantry
-At the last minute he was offered chance to do administrative work
-Handled paperwork for enlisted men in the division
(00:09:49) Living Conditions in Vietnam Pt. 1
-Food wasn't too bad
-Similar to school lunches
-Visited an Air Force base in Vietnam
-It was like being in the United States
-Had tennis courts, swimming pools, and a large PX (post-exchange: general store)
-Couldn't stay too long and didn't want to anyway
(00:10:52) Service in Vietnam Pt. 2
-Stationed at Dong Tam
-Engineers were building up the base and establishing defenses
-Base served as the 9th Infantry Division headquarters
-Worked together like a team
-Everyone had a duty and did it
-Nobody slacked off
-His unit performed well in Vietnam
-Got eight hours of sleep each night
-Had entertainment available to them
(00:12:34) Enemy Contact Pt. 1
-North Vietnamese (or Viet Cong) hit the base with rockets every three nights
-By the time the second rocket hit everyone would get into bunkers
-Didn't know if it would be in the morning, during the day, or at night
-Had to be on edge at all times to be prepared for enemy attacks
(00:13:42) Service in Vietnam Pt. 3
-Mekong Delta was hot and rainy during the monsoon season
-Didn't worry about being wet, because as soon as it stopped the heat would dry their clothes
(00:14:32) Arrival in Vietnam
-Landed at a base close to Saigon
-Note: Most likely Bien Hoa Air Base
-Incoming soldiers got off the plane and were replaced with soldiers returning to the United States
-Airliner took off as soon as all of the soldiers were on board
-Went from Saigon to where he had been assigned
-Preferred working wherever administrative duty was available
-Sent to a canopy tent to wait for his assignment
-Remembers the first foreign creature he saw was a fly
(00:16:57) Service in Vietnam Pt. 4
-Dong Tam was close to the city of Tan An in the Mekong Delta
-Tour began in late 1968
-Seven or eight men worked in the administrative building
-He assigned men to various units within the 9th Infantry Division
-Administrative duties consisted of promotions, early discharge, and supply management
(00:18:12) Enemy Contact Pt. 2
-Enemy was always around

�-Got his haircuts from a Vietnamese barber
-One day they found his body outside of the perimeter
-He had been shot dead with other Viet Cong militants trying to enter base
-People of all ages fought for the Viet Cong
(00:18:56) Downtime in Vietnam Pt. 1
-Ran with a major who was an Olympic athlete
-Ran on a daily basis
-Did foot races with other soldiers
-Major always beat him and the other men
-Remembers racing against some Vietnamese men
-Running five miles from the base to the city
-Safe since the major ran with them
-Army made sure the area was secure
-Protected by helicopters
-Vietnamese cheated because they weren't in good enough shape to run against Americans
(00:22:32) Enemy Contact Pt. 3
-Rocket attacks were the most intense experience he had in Vietnam
-Remembers working near a helipad and there was a rocket attack
-He couldn't find cover in a bunker, so he had to hide under nearby metal
-Pulled guard duty some nights
-Stayed close to the guard hut, but didn't stay in it
-Felt like the hut was too much of a target
(00:23:43) Downtime in Vietnam Pt. 2
-Stayed busy to keep his mind off of home
-A girl from college wrote to him
-Served as a morale boost
-Race was the most fun he had while he was in Vietnam
(00:25:13) Service in Vietnam Pt. 5
-Enjoyed his duty assigning soldiers to certain units in the 9th Infantry Division
-Assigned them based on their skills
-Didn't like replacing men that had been wounded in action, or killed in action
-Worst experience was when Reservists from Hawaii were deployed to Vietnam
-None of them had combat experience, or training, but had to be assigned to combat units
-High mortality rate amongst these men
(00:27:05) Friends in the Army
-Major was a good man
-Other officers respected the enlisted men
-Officers didn't want to be saluted
-Nobody paid much attention to rank
(00:27:46) Division Dog
-Had a dog at Dong Tam
-Stray dog had shown up at the base with an injured leg
-There was a veterinarian in the division that set the dog's leg
-One soldier managed to get the dog awarded a Purple Heart
-Served as a morale boost for the men
(00:29:37) Enemy Contact Pt. 4
-He arrived later in 1968 after the Tet Offensive in January of that year
-Enemy activity had decreased since their ranks had been depleted by the Tet Offensive

�(00:30:06) Coming Home Pt. 2
-Various components of the division were being called out of Vietnam
-Eventually, the whole division returned to the United States
-Handed over control of the base to the South Vietnamese
-Sent to a base south of Saigon
-Spent a few months there
-Muddier
-Had a K-9 unit stationed there
(00:31:27) Living Conditions in Vietnam
-Lived in a two-story housing unit
-Long and rectangular
-Remembers a mortar hit the housing unit next to his
-Fortunately, no one was inside, so nobody got hurt
-Had he been in his barracks the mortar may have killed him or at least injured him
(00:32:30) Contact with Friends after the War
-Tried to reach out to one friend he served with in Vietnam
-Friend didn't want to be in touch with anyone he served with
-Trying to put the war behind him
-One soldier contacted Raymond to thank him for his assignment
-Probably saved the man's life
(00:33:28) Reflections on Vietnam War
-Over 58,000 Americans were killed in the Vietnam War as compared to nearly 4,500 in the Iraq War
-Doesn't diminish losses in Iraq, but gives perspective on the two wars in terms of losses
(00:33:54) Progress of Vietnam War
-Never saw any Vietnamese prisoners of war during his time in Vietnam
-Never heard any news about the war
-If they heard news, it was usually the same stories over and over
-Most newsworthy thing he remembers wasn't connected to the war at all
-It was the Detroit Tigers playing in, and winning the 1968 World Series
(00:34:57) R&amp;R
-Visited Hawaii on R&amp;R
-Spent a week in Hawaii
-Spent R&amp;R with the girl he wrote
-Second date they ever had was in Hawaii
-By the end of R&amp;R they were both broke
-When he went to Hawaii he had been in all 50 states
(00:37:10) Vietnamese Civilians
-Treated civilians with suspicion
-Civilians were friendly, but the troops always kept an eye on them
(00:37:39) Food in Vietnam
-Always ate Army food
-Had hot meals pretty much during his entire time in Vietnam
-Only ate rations once when they were under attack and they weren't that bad
(00:38:12) USO Shows
-Only saw the Bob Hope Show once
-Only stayed a little while because he was too far back and couldn't see the show
(00:38:54) Contact with Home
-Primary contact with home was with the girl he wrote
-Wrote her every day, and she wrote him every day

�(00:39:23) Coming Home Pt. 3
-Happy he made it to the end of his tour
-Got delayed for two days
-Took 24 hours all toll to get back to San Francisco and get out processed
-Flew back to Detroit
-Went 48 hours without sleep when he came home, but he didn't care
-Happy to be home and was running on adrenaline
(00:40:24) Rank &amp; Commendations
-Achieved the rank of Specialist 5 (similar pay grade to sergeant)
-Awarded the Vietnam Service Medal
-Received a commendation for helping move the 9th Infantry Division back to the United States
(00:40:53) Life after the War
-Went to Grand Rapids, Michigan where his girlfriend lived
-Stayed at his future brother-in-law's house
-Eventually moved in with his future in-laws
-Got an accounting job with Seidman &amp; Seidman
-Extended his tour in Vietnam by two months
-Meant that when he got back to the United States he had less than six months of his enlistment
-Allowed him to get discharged as soon as he got back to the United States
-Had originally met his wife in college when they worked together at the library
-He didn't want to seriously date anyone in college because he knew he'd get drafted
-Dated for two or three months, got engaged, and six months later they got married
-Had four children and eight grandchildren
-Lived in Grand Rapids, Michigan and the nearby suburb of Kentwood, Michigan
-Worked with the Franciscans
-Part of the Historical Society
-Ironic because he wasn't good at history in school
-Did that for 20 years
-Served on the local draft board for 20 years
-Wanted to make sure the right people got drafted if necessary
-Defensive capacity after the Vietnam War ended
-Note: Draft ended in 1973, but 18 year old men still have to register for the draft
-Took up reading and enjoys telling stories about the saints with the Franciscans
(00:46:39) Reflections on Service
-Taught him that there are different cultures in the world
-Cultures are formed based on outside factors and different contexts
-Americans need to be aware of these cultures and respect them

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Richard Boland
Length of interview: (26:04)

(00:20) Early Life






Richard was born on August 2, 1933 in St. Louis, Missouri
His father was an attorney and his mother was a stay at home parent
o Richard had one brother
Before joining the service, he worked in construction and other small jobs during the
summer
Richard’s brother served in the Korean War in an artillery unit
o He received the Purple Heart and the Bronze Star
When he was 21, he received a commission at the ROTC of Notre Dame University ( he
graduated in 1955)
o He chose to join the Air force because he wanted to fly as well as serve his
country
o Even if he decided not to join the military, he feels that he would have been
drafted anyway

(3:40) Military Life (1955-1958)









Richard’s training lasted for about a year and a half. At the end of the training, he was fit
to fly the F-86 Sabre
In the beginning, he was sent to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas for basic
training.
o This training lasted for 6 weeks and had nothing to do with flying
In January, 1956, Richard was sent to Bartow Air Base in Florida for flight training
o This training lasted for 6 months
o After that, he went to Greenville, Mississippi for jet training. During this 6 month
training period, they flew the P-33
o Next, he went to Perrin Air Force Base in Sherman, Texas. Here he was trained
on the F-86
o Finally, he received advanced weapons training at Panama City, Florida
(7:00) Adjusting to life in the military was easy because he was enthusiastic about
meeting new people and changing his life
A lot of his instructors had flown missions during the Korean War and had a lot to offer
in terms of experience
Richard had very little experience flying prior to joining the military
Tensions with Russia were high when he was in the military

�











o It made men nervous knowing that nuclear was a possibility
When he was in the service, Richard had a wife and two children
o They were able to move with him wherever he went
(12:35) Because of his academic background, Richard had a second duty as a financial
officer
When they flew training missions, each man was alone in the aircraft; however, they flew
in formations of up to four aircraft
o Ground units would use radar to guide them to a particular target
His was a part of the 15th Fighter Interceptor Squadron
o The duty of the squadron was to protect their assigned Strategic Air Command
base (SAC) in the event of an attack
o During this time, the B-47 bomber was being replaced with the B-52
Two of Richard’s close friends in his squadron were killed in Vietnam
In their free time, the men in Richard’s squadron played a lot of cards and golf
Three days out of the week, the squadron was on alert. This required them to be ready to
go airborne in less than five minutes
o On one particular occasion, Richard was told that there was an object in the air
that was six miles wide and eight miles long. This startled Richard but it ended up
being a glitch on the radar
(9:12) When Richard got out of the service, he was a 1st lieutenant. After two years in the
reserves, he achieved the rank of captain
One of the most prominent memories he has if of a time when one of the squadron’s head
officers took them to a base in New Mexico
o On the way back from the base, they flew in a tight formation 500 feet in the air at
a speed of 400mph

(20:55) Later Life








When he was out of the service, Richard continued his schooling
o He got his master’s degree in accounting from St. Louis University
o After he spent ten years in public accounting, Richard went to work for Steelcase
where he spent 30 years
He got out of the service in 1958
o Since he didn’t see combat, he didn’t have any trouble adjusting to civilian life
Richard lost contact with his comrades after 1960
(23:00) He likes the idea of requiring all young men and women serve two years in the
military
His early adult life taught him to be honest with himself and others
Richard’s brother fought in Korea and was wounded in action (camera turns to show his
commendations)

�</text>
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Boring, Frank</text>
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                    <text>COVID-19 Journal
Due to COVID-19 I did have to move off campus suddenly. The night we found out that
school was closing for what at the time was a few weeks, I packed enough for the weekend and
ended up going home. I went back to my sorority house the next week to pack the majority of my
belongings. I still have some of my things at the house and will be getting them when it is safe
for me to go get them.
My classes ended up going pretty well. I managed to pull off some really good grades
and actually had my best semester yet. However, this was definitely my hardest semester. I
ended up having much more homework than I had when I was going to in-person classes, and I
think most of it was to supplement lectures and what I was missing out on by being online. The
bigger work load was very stressful for me and making sure I had all of my due dates straight for
homework assignments, quizzes, tests, and projects was a lot to manage. I am really proud of
myself for pushing through the rest of the semester and getting the grades I got, and truly feel
like I worked hard to earn them. My professors were nothing but encouraging and helpful. They
were very available for help and I really appreciate all their hard work and caring messages.
I am involved in Greek Life on campus. I sit on the executive board for my sorority, and
it has been an extremely difficult transition. I miss all my friends dearly and really feel sorry for
our graduating seniors that they will not get to experience all of their lasts as a member of our
chapter. We have been working hard to put small things together for our seniors so that they will
still feel as though we are there to celebrate all of their accomplishments with them! I am really
hoping we will be back in the fall so that I can be with my friends again.
My daily life is obviously much different than it was a month ago. I talk to my friends on
the phone a lot now because that is the only option I have. It’s been about five weeks since I

�have seen my boyfriend which has been hard. I have spent most of my time doing school work
but now that finals are over, I will have much more free time. I am hoping to get back into
working out regularly and plan on cooking some new foods and baking more. I used to bake and
cook a lot and so I want to get back into those hobbies while I have the time. It’s been nice
spending time with my family, but I really miss my friends.
I had a job at a daycare close to campus while I was at school. That is now closed until
further notice. I am not sure when that will reopen and if we will have to limit the number of
children we can care for once we are able to open again. I wouldn’t be working there over the
summer because I do not live in Grand Rapids, but I am hoping that I still have my job when I
come back to campus. If we have to make cuts to the number of students, I am sure they will
have to cut staff which worries me.
Two of my family members most likely had the virus. First my little sister, then my dad.
My sister was able to get a test, but it came back negative. However, with the symptoms she was
having she was told to quarantine for two weeks. My dad was not able to get a test because he
was told there was not enough. Because of his symptoms, he was told to quarantine for two
weeks as well. My sister had milder symptoms for an extended period of time. She had a lowgrade fever that lasted two weeks along with a cough, body aches and shortness of breath. While
her symptoms were considered mild, she was still miserable. My dad had more severe
symptoms. He had a higher fever that only lasted about three days but had a bad cough and a lot
of trouble breathing along with body aches that lasted about two weeks. He is still recovering
and coughs a bit but is doing much better. This past month has been a very scary time for my
family.

�Going to the store has been very different. One person from our family goes and when
they come back, we wipe down all of the packaging and boxes with wipes. Our grocery store has
been out of a lot including meat products, eggs, toilet paper and cleaning supplies. They are often
out of a lot of frozen foods and canned or boxed food. There is now a limit on how much of one
item you can take. Lots of people are using Shipt or doing curbside pickup, and it often times
takes days or even weeks to get a delivery time. There are also hours for senior citizens or
immunocompromised people to come and shop for groceries in the morning, and the store is
closing early so that the employees and receive shipments and stock the shelves. I have heard a
lot about people going out of their way to make sure the grocery store employees feel
appreciated which makes me feel happy.

�</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Robert Bolinder
(01:46:00)
Introduction (00:17)
Family and Pre-enlistment (00:44)
�

Born in the Bronx, NY in 1923. His family moved to NJ a year after he was born. For many
years his father worked as a sales representative at Union Flight Waxing Company. Bolinder
graduated high school in 1940.

�

Took a year at Newark College for Engineering and then began taking night classes at NYU
his 2nd year. At the same time, he worked for a gyroscope company training making
gyroscopes, the predecessor to radar.

�

Bolinder mentions the patriotism that Americans displayed with the aftermath of Pearl
Harbor. He mentions that just about every man he knew went and joined the army soon
thereafter. (04:07)

Enlistment and Training (4:20)
�

The U.S. Government at the turn of 1940 did away with the requirements that college kids
needed to be 21 yrs of age and have 4 years of college to join the army. They moved the age
down to 18 yrs of age. After passing his entry exams Bolinder was accepted into the Army
Air Corps as of Feb. 6th 1940. (04:39) Was put on furlough between February and August at
$21/month and 44 cents in rations a day. The point of this was to keep these servicemen
available for active duty.

�

Went to Santa Ana, CA for pre-flight training. His training consisted of mathematics and
drilling. While there he trained with PT-22 planes and was able to go solo in the allotted
time of 9 hours. While training here, his mother requested he come to his sister’s wedding
upon which he refused because he was still in the transitional stage of training with B-25s.

�

After training there he went to, Colorado where he learned how to operate twin engine
planes. (08:26) While there he got his 2nd Lieutenant’s commission and graduated from
there on May 20th 1943. Mentions that a month before graduation he and 19 others signed
up for night fighter training. (14:51)

�

Bolinder goes on to mention that many of his friends went on to join the heavy bomber
squadrons that were flying over Europe. Many that went to Europe did not survive. (15:58)

�

Went to Orlando, FL soon after and trained with A-20 aircraft. While there he mentions
doing such exercises as flying low-level dives at 500 ft. and going through simulated flying
situations. Spent about a month in Orlando before being sent to another base in FL. (21:12)

�Bolinder describes that they had had switch pods instead of lights for markers when landing.
He and other trainees lived in tents.
�

Briefly mentions that his CEO had previously flown with observational planes before
joining the night fighters. Also mentions that he was part of a program called AFSAT (Air
Force School of Applied Tactics) The airfield he was based at served as the headquarters for
this program.

�

Describes his thoughts on how fast the U.S. government mobilized an effective air force.
Bolinder mentions that he was in Florida from the middle of August 42’ to January 43’. At
that point, the government decided to move the program to Saluditos, CA. For the next few
months, Boldiner spent his time flying and taking an airplane identification class. (29:59)

�

After this, Bolinder boarded a troop train from California which went to Camp Kilmer, NJ.
He was there a week getting last minute shots and training before joining his squadron.
While there, he briefly mentions that a radar observer accidentally shot himself in the foot
while cleaning some side-arms.

�

From there, they boarded troop ships bound for Europe on March 23rd 1943. Describes the
journey across the ocean in some detail. The reception they got from the people of Glasgow,
United Kingdom was warm and cordial. It was decided while in England to increase the
number of fighter planes from 20 to 30 per squadron because it would be more efficient.
(38:36)

�

Bolinder mentions that he spent some time at a base near Bath, England, from April to midMay. After their time there they were stationed at Darlington, about 70 miles north of York.
Based at a base called Scorpion they started training with AT-17s. About mid-June they had
worked up to training with P-61s. These planes he mentions could go 420 mph at 20,000 ft.
Bolinder mentions that they flew 5 out of 7 nights a week.

�

On one occasion, a British pilot flew one and came back and said that it was the worst plane
he had ever flown. His report caused so much of a stir amongst the chain of command that
that there was a competition between the British Mosquito of the 422nd and the P-61 of the
423rd Night Fighter Squadron. (43:30)

Combat Experiences (45:31)
•

•

•

About 6 weeks after D-Day they started flying missions out of the city of Cherbourg, FR.
He mentions that they served as the defensive force behind the 1st Army for the course of
World War II.
Bolinder mentions that air force squadrons remained in frequent contact with ground
control. Every time an unidentified aircraft was spotted ground control would report their
exact location to air squadrons so they could drop down quickly and eliminate the target.
Bolinder describes his time going on interceptor missions in July 44’. At Chateaudun, he
describes getting ready for a battle that never came. Makes the observation that throughout
history Paris is known as the city that was never ransacked. Shares his thoughts on the
liberation of Paris (49:43)

�•

3 weeks following the liberation of Paris, he was stationed in Belgium. At that time the
airports in Belgium were repaired enough for airplanes to fly out and support Patton. All the
missions he flew out of there were night missions into Germany. (50:12) Describes the
missions he flew out of Belgium.

•

On Sept. 15 1944, he mentions that he began to see more German activity taking place.
Mentions that the city of Aachen had switched hands over 5 times. (53:10)

•

Bolinder describes his time flying A-10s and going on precision bombing missions. He
mentions that German aircraft often avoided American A-10s to go after the British heavy
bombers flying to and from the Rhone Valley. Also mentions that British heavy bombers
usually had no fighter cover in combat and that they would be easy targets for German
aircraft. Also mentions that he did some interceptor missions on buzz bombs. Eventually
other methods were developed to deal with them such as shooting up a wall of flak and
distract the bomb so that it would explode in route. (01:02:00)

•

Briefly mentions an encounter in which one of his friends shot down a buzz bomb which
ended up destroying an American supply depot and killing quite a few American
servicemen. On another occasion a buzz bomb exploded a quarter of a mile from his
position in a village.

•

After Feb. 1945, he left for England and checked into a hospital where he underwent a
physical and was told that he could no longer do combat missions because his eyesight was
bad (01:03:13) but still could fly.

•

Afterward, he was transferred to the flight section of the 9th Tactical Air Force in March 45’.
At about this time, served as an operations officer. Briefly mentions events happening on the
Eastern Front. One night, he was informed to cease all night missions from 7pm to 10pm.
The next day he found out that the Allies had crossed the Remagan Bridge into Germany.
Was informed by an intelligence officer later that if the order had been given to attack two
targets near the Remagan Bridge, that they would have bombed the 9th Armored Division
crossing the bridge. (01:05:39)

•

Bolinder mentions that he served aboard a C-47 carrying Gen. Hodges of 1st Army and Gen.
Sterling of his division on their trip to an airfield north of Leipzig, Germany. For fear of the
airfield being mined he was told to land in the grass. After landing, he joined the company
in a jeep which drove 20 miles to Torgau, Germany where they met with Marshall Zhukov.
This was the first official meeting between Americans and Russians. (01:07:55)

•

Mentions have a brief dinner with the general of the 69th Inf. Division. Describes the
experience in some detail. (01:11:25) Was then chosen by Gen. Sterling to be his personal
pilot. Served in this capacity for about 2 months. Then heard that his squadron was heading
back to the states to receive training in the invasion of Japan.

•

He describes the events leading up to the Battle of the Bulge. Mentions that the assumption
by Allied intelligence was that the Germans were going to conduct a counter-offensive in
the spring of 44’ but instead were completely surprised when they attacked in winter
through the Ardennes region.

�•

The night of Sept. 16th and 17th Bolinder mentions that he was conducting routine patrols
when he came upon a German Focke-Wulf190 which he quickly shot down and saw go
down burning. After returning to base, he reported the kill but was not credited for the kill.
Two months later it was finally verified that a unit saw the pilot from the aircraft parachute
down and was quickly captured. (01:19:42)

•

In another instance, Bolinder communicates to GCI at seeing a lot of activity. He mentions
shooting down a Heinkel 111, an ME 110 and possibly another Heinkel 111. (01:23:34)
Didn’t receive the Silver Star until May 45’. Mentions that everybody was there doing the
job they were trained to do not to receive some reward.

Going Home (01:24:00)
•

About the 1st of July Bolinder’s squadron was transferred from Castle, Germany to Rheims,
FR. While there the atom bomb was dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima. The situation
after that changed what happened next dramatically. (01:25:18) Stayed in Rheims for the
month of August 45’ but was then moved to Camp Herbert-Torrington up near Le Havre,
France for a month waiting for a boat.

•

From there, he boarded a Liberty ship and crossed the Atlantic in 14 days. Upon landing in
Boston on Oct. 5th, 1945 he was met by a welcoming party. Went to a camp right outside
Boston and about a week later his squadron was disbanded. By Monday morning, he
boarded a troop train bound for Fort Dix, NJ. (1:26:55) Upon getting off, he was able to
obtain a pass to visit his parents who he had not seen in 2 years. (01:27:30)

After the War (1:28:44)
•

After being discharged, he went on to marry his wife and shares briefly how they met.
(01:28:44) Then describes his time in the Reserves and service in the Korean War. In 1951,
he was stationed in Panama, FL and then Biloxi, Mississippi undergoing more training.
(01:32:24) Briefly mentions his time there. From there he was transferred to Waco, TX
where he was stationed for a little while.

•

After the service, he worked for Union Carbide for many years until he changed careers and
went into the publishing industry working for Zondervan and Tyndale Publishing
Companies. Finally, shares his personal thoughts on the army and how it helped him to grow
in maturity. (01:46:01)

�,

MILITARY HISTORY FOR CAPT. ROBERT G.BOLINDER
Bob was born June 6,1923 in New York, NY. He moved to Teaneck, NJ
with his parents and sister when he was one year old. He grew up in Teaneck
and graduated from Teaneck High School in June 1940. He attended Newark
College of Engineering, Newark, NJ.
He remembers well our country's "day of infamy," December 7, 1941 .
."His four closest friends joined the Army, on December 8.
Bob volunteered for pilot training in the U.S. Army Air Corps on January 3,
1942, even though he had never been up in an airplane. He was sworn into
the Air Corps on April 6, 1942 and called to active duty to become an
Aviation Cadet in early August, 1942 training on the west coast.
He graduated from Advanced Multi-Engine School May 20, 1943. A month
before graduating, he along with 19 other graduates, volunteered to enter the
new, mysterious, Night Fighter program. After two months of multi-engine
transition training at La Junta, Colorado, flying B-25's, night fighter training
commenced in Orlando, FL. There he "connected," with his Radar Observer,
Flight Officer Bob "Shorty" Graham. They would be crewmates for the
balance of the war.
Training was completed the end ofNovember, 1943. We trained in twin
engine, single cockpit P-70's, the Night Fighter version of the A-20. He
joined the422nd "Green Bats," Night Fighter Squadron in Bath, England in
March, 1944. In April, the Squadron moved to Scorton, England, north of
York in April. In May, we finally received our P-61 Black Widows. Here,
we intensively re-trained for about 6 weeks to familiarize ourselves with the
P-61.
The 422nd,s first combat was to engage the German pilotless V-I "Buzz
Bombs." Four were destroyed in 1 week. The Squadron moved to
Cherbourg, France in mid-July. Where the Allied position was still a
"beachhead," About 10 days after we arrived, General Patton's Third army
"broke through," the enemy lines at St. Lo, France.
nd
.
The 422 moved about 1 week later to Chateaudun.Erance where we
were expected to provide "night cover," for the battle to liberate Paris,
However, the Germans abandoned Paris and in early September, the 422nd
moved to Florennes, Belgium, about 60 miles south of Brussels. Here, we
"settled in," to provide "night cover," for General Hodges 1st Army as we all
battled to defeat the Third Reich.
The 422nd,s big battle was the Battle of the Bulge, which started on the night
of December 16,17, 1944. That night Bob Graham and I flew 2 missions,
engaging 4 enemy aircraft. We destroyed 3 and probably crest} @j ed1:he"'~.
rf' •• ".,.._

�(

th

destroyed the 4 . During this great battle, which lasted about 3 weeks, our
squadron flew "night cover," for the 101 st Airborne Division which was
surrounded by the German army. After 1 week, Gen Patton's 3rd army broke
nd
through the enemy lines to rescue the 101 st. The 422 was awarded the
Presidential Unit Citation for protecting the 101 st and for destroying a total
of 17 enemy planes during the Battle of the Bulge. Bob Graham and I were
awarded the Silver Star medal by the United States and the Distinguished
-,
Flying Cross by the British government, .( o v- d .... It" « -&lt; P /" ,. ~ ~ /.0') "",e. , f- ;)~~. /6./ r;
In March, 1945 my vision deteriorated and I had to wear glasses when I
flew. I transferred to the 9 th Tactical Air Force Flight Section and finished
the war as a Mission Pilot. I had the privilege of flying General Hodges and
his Staff in a C-47 to Torgau, Germany for the first official meeting with
Marshal Zukov and the Russian Army. Later I became the personal pilot to
Brig. General Stearley, Commanding Officer of the 9 th Tactical Air Corps.
nd
I rejoined the 422 Night Fighter Squadron to return to the United States in
June, 1945. By the time we got back to the United States, the war in the
Pacific was over and I was discharged at Fort Dix New Jersey in early
October, 1945.
In February, 1951 I was recalled to the new United States Air Force. I flew
another 1,000 hours in B-25's training Radar Observers for F-89's and F­
94' s. I was separated from this 2nd tour of duty in July, 1952

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                <text>Robert Bolinder is a World War II who served in the U.S. Army Air Corps with the 423rd Night Fighter Squadron from February 1941 to October 1945. Bolinder describes Robert Bolinder is a World War II who served in the U.S. Army Air Corps with the 423rd Night Fighter Squadron from February 1941 to October 1945. Bolinder describes the specialized training for night fighter pilots, the missions he flew over France, Belgium and Germany. Toward the end of the war, he was removed from night fighting because of vision problems, but could still fly, and wound up serving as the pilot for the commander of an infantry division, a duty that took him to Torgau, Germany, for the first meeting between US and Soviet generals. Personal narrative and pictures appended to outline.    </text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Martin Henry Bolt
(01:21:00)
Interviewer: “Can we have you name and when you were born.”
My name is Martin Henry Bolt. I was born on Griggs Street Grand Rapids, MI. From
there on I proceeded to move out of there and we went up on Hall Street and I lived there
all the time I was in the service and when I returned I got married and moved on. 4:36
Interviewer: “Tell us something about your early childhood and your early schooling
here in Grand Rapids.”
Well, I started out at Hall Street School in kindergarten because Holy Name Parish didn’t
have a kindergarten. From there I went to Holy Name Parish for 8 years and from there I
went to Catholic Central and graduated from Catholic Central in 1937. Then I did one
fall semester at Davenport College and decided I didn’t want to do office work and went
out and took construction. 5:11
Interviewer: “Who were your parents and what were they doing for a living?”
My mother and father were both born in the Netherlands and my father came here in
1889 and took a job in a furniture factory and saved up enough money to send for my
mother. They arrived at the depot and from there right to St. Joseph’s Parish and got
married on the same day she arrived. 5:41 That was quite a few years ago, back in the
1800’s.
Interviewer: “Right after your first semester there at Davenport, what were your options
and what were you planning to do with your life?”
Well, if you recall, 1937 was a bad year. We had just gotten through the depression and
jobs were not readily available so the first job I took was at a drug store and I lasted there
about 9 months and I put my application in at the gas company, the telephone company
and at Page Hardware. All 3 of them responded within a week for interviews. I took the
interviews and I had my decision to make and I asked my father, “where do you think I
should go” and he said, “I’ve never seen a telephone man without a job. They work
through all periods” so I ended up in the phone company. 6:44
Interviewer: “Now what happened next that was a big step in your life?”
Well, I guess the biggest step was, I met my wife in 1936. We both had different schools
to attend. The girl’s school was on one side of Jefferson and the boy’s on the other.
Crossing the road one day, I seen her coming toward me and I felt a sensation like being
hit with electricity and I said, “ooh, what’s this?” I got across the street to the buddy I
was walking with and I said, “do you know those 2 girls?” and he said, “ya, their the
cutler sisters.” I said, “oh boy, I gotta find out who that one is.” 7:32 Then the rest of
the school year I got acquainted with her and we started dating. I’d already gotten the job
when I bought an engagement ring, presented her with the ring and up until the time, we
were planning on getting married when I got my draft notice, so we delayed it.

1

�Interviewer: “Tell us about getting a draft notice.” 7:58
Well, I was down in Lansing working and I came back to Grand Rapids to register, which
I did, went back to Lansing to work and I got informed that my draft number was 1037,
which was pretty low and when I got back into Grand Rapids after working there in
Lansing, the job was finished, I went to the board and asked what numbers they were at
and they were pretty close to mine. They were probably in the 400’s. 8:32 He was a
Dutchman and he said,” ve go through all these numbers and ven ve get 10 good names,
ve take em 10 at a time”. I said, “Oh, ok. How long will it be?” and he said, “oh, you got
until summer”. It didn’t work out that way. They called me up in April and I got my
letter from them saying that, “you have been selected”. That made a complete change in
my life and my future. 9:02 At that time it was only a years draft, 12 months, so I would
have been out April 21st of 1942, so we planned on marrying first and my parents and her
parents said, ”oh it’s a good test of your love, wait a year and if your still in love with
each other then get married”. 9:25 they didn’t want us both down there in another city,
her being a wife to a military man. I guess they were right in that respect.
Interviewer: “What was the mood like around you? You were not in a war yet, but
there were there sounds of war on the radio and in the newspapers and all that? Did you
have any sense that now that you were in the military, you were going to go to war?”
9:50
No I didn’t. I just thought it was a years training and in the event we did get into a war,
we would be experienced enough to fight the battle, but I didn’t worry about it at that
time.
Interviewer: “So you said goodbye to your family and you said goodbye to your future
wife”.
Yes, on a Sunday. I went down to the Union Depot and they loaded everyone on a train.
There were probably at least a hundred of us at that time going in. We went to
Kalamazoo overnight, I said goodbye of course to my family and my girlfriend, we went
to Kalamazoo overnight and the next morning, it was Monday, they took us to Camp
Custer, did a physical and after that they said “your in the service” and they swore us in.
10:43 A few of them failed their physicals and were sent back, so on April 22nd I was a
member of the military service and I took my oath to serve my country loyally.
Interviewer: “Did you have any voice in terms of what branch you were going into?”
Not really. I guess about the only thing I can say about the choices is they told us after
you got to your army base they would go through the records and see where we would do
the best to serve our country. 11:20
Interviewer: “so where did you go for basic training?”
I went to Camp Livingston, Louisiana and we had 6 weeks of training down there and we
were confined to the base. We could not leave or do anything and after our basic training
was over, then we could get our first pass to go to town. 11:43

2

�Interviewer: “What was the it like? You’re from Michigan and you arrive in Louisiana
and you have never been to Louisiana before. You arrive in Louisiana and you’re about
to be insulated in this little area. Can you give us an idea of this young mans impression
as he came into the barracks and onto the grounds of this training area?” 12:02
Well, I realize a military installation; we had sidewalks made of shell and tents. Six men
in a tent and it was basically just living with what they presented us with. We had very
good meals and they had movies for entertainment. They had a gym and a few other
places we could go for recreation. It seemed like the 6 weeks went real quick. I knew
one of the Sergeants, Sergeant Merrin, who worked at the phone company. He was a
National Guard so when I got down to I company, he called me up to the First Sergeants
tent and he said “Bolt, we want you for a B.A.R. Gunner and I said, “what is a B.A.R.”?
He said “it’s an automatic rifle that weighs about 20 pounds” and he said, “it has a
tripod”. He said “you’ll learn about it”, so I went out to a training ground and a
Lieutenant stood out there telling me all about a B.A.R. He said, “the average life of a
B.A.R.Gunner is 6 seconds in action”. I said, “he made a mistake, he means 6 minutes”.
13:18 I waited until the presentation was over and he said “any questions?’ I said
“ya”and I raised my hand and said, “you said the average life of a gunner is 6 seconds. I
think you meant minutes” and he said “no”, I said it right. When I got back to the
company it was still peacetime, I went up to Al Merrin and I said, “here’s your gun back.
With a Corporals rating, I don’t need it”. That was a little bit of the humor that came
while we were being trained. 13:46
Interviewer: “Was there any sense of camaraderie or sense of getting to know these
guys around you?”
Well to honest with you, the National Guards were all friends and knew each other. They
had been down there from November and they kind of stayed together in one area and the
draftees visited back and forth and became friends. Yes, there was some.
Interviewer: “ In terms of your previous experience with the phone company, was there
any thought of you going into that element or were you training just to be an
infantryman?”
Well, I trained from April until about August as an Infantryman, then they put a notice on
the bulletin board that they needed some communication men and that school was going
to start, so I offered to go to that class. 14:39 We spent 3 weeks, of course I was
knowledgeable to what they were telling us and I already had experience climbing
telephone poles, so I did pretty well in the class. I got my diploma and I made my first
mistake. It said your going to the 5th Army and I said, “I don’t want to go there and meet
all new people. I’m used to these kids and I have a lot of fun with them”. I stood there
and looked at the diploma and a guy by the name of Brown, who also worked at the
phone company, said, “what did you get?” and I said, “I got to go over to the 5th Army.”
He said, “are you lucky.” and I said, “you want to trade?” and he said “ya, I’ll trade with
ya.” We went up to see the Major and told him what happened and he said, “sure we’ll
change it.” The kid went to a rear base and I went with our men up to wartime. 15:39
Those are things that happened. Bad decision.

3

�Interviewer: “The other Red Arrow veterans that I have talked to said that the training
that you actually got was really more WWI based. Tell us a little bit more, one thing
about the training itself and whether or not it had any application to what you actually got
into.”
There was nothing, the training we got was for civilian type countries where you go from
city to city using highways and side roads, which is understandable, we didn’t realize the
war was going to be in a jungle. So we had no training at all in jungle warfare, none what
so ever. 16:26
Interviewer: “So after you made this decision, you are now in the 5th Army, what was
the next step? Did you get a notice you were going somewhere? What did you do
next?”
Well, we stayed right at Livingston, we got a 72-hour pass and went down to New
Orleans; there were 5 of us. On December 6 we arrived in New Orleans and slept in a
car, all of us in a car, got up the next morning and there were some nuns coming down
the street going toward a church and we asked them for a little bit of information about
going to church and she said, “you got another hour” so we went to a restaurant and
thought we would get a cup of coffee and a donut and there was nobody at the counter to
wait on us. We hollered, “where are ya, where are ya” and he said “shh, I’m in the back
room here, I’ll be right out.” He came out and told us that Pearl Harbor had been
attacked. 17:35 All of us said “where is Pearl Harbor”? He said, “well, the Japs bombed
the whole city and we lost a lot of boats and ships and quite a few men were killed and
you have to go right back to your base.” So we took off for the base. The people down
in the south didn’t want much to do with us, they didn’t invite us into their homes per say
and didn’t offer to buy us a round of drinks or anything. On the way back we stopped
and had a couple of beers and they offered to buy everything for us. 18:18 It just
changed overnight.
Interviewer: “Was there any sense, and I realize this was a long time ago, but was there
any sense at the time of where you are going to go? You guys are heading back to base,
the war has started, any idea where you were going to go?”
No idea. I’m sure the officers had that information, but they didn’t pass it to us. I got
back to the base the night of the 7th and the morning of the 8th they said, “load up were
going to go down to New Orleans on guard duty until we get a different assignment”. So
we came right back and I was stationed at Lake Ponchatrain camp down there and went
on guard duty on the bridges and that lasted about 4 weeks, probably a month, then we
got our orders.
Interviewer: “ Today’s audience, if you will, thinking about guard duty in the United
States, would probably think in terms of guarding Fort Knox or something like that, so
let’s try and get a better idea of guarding. What were you guarding and why were you
guarding it?”
Well, they were afraid of sabotage and that’s what we were out there to do, to protect the
area that we were assigned to and to be alert in case you see anything suspicious. 19:43
Cars would be stopped and searched to see if there was something in the trunk. They
would pull them over if they were suspicious of anything. Just basically, keep an alert

4

�eye on the civilians and be sure that they weren’t going to do anything like the terrorists
are doing today.
Interviewer: “I think that is a good connection there. It’s hard for even someone like
myself to even fathom that we would have guards in the streets of New Orleans or St.
Louis or any where else, but that actually did happen at that time. 20:17 Once the guard
duty period was over with, what was your next assignment? Where did you go?”
Well, we got orders to go back to our camp and await the next assignment. So we were
back there about a month, no not quite a month, we were there a couple of weeks when
we got notice that we were going to go to Fort Devens in Massachusetts and I stayed,
there was always a fore echelon, a main body and a rear echelon and I was assigned to
the rear echelon. So, the first group went out and the second group went out about a
week later and we were to follow up. Well, in the meantime, while we were waiting this
period of 2 or 3 weeks to get notified to go ahead, they put a sign up on the bulleting
board, “cooks and bakers school”. Well the unit I was with was an artillery unit so I said,
“ok, that’s for me, I’m going to go there and get some education rather sit on the
company street.” So, I went to school and while I was at school, they called the rear
echelon up. They didn’t want to break our classes up, there were about 10 of us from this
company that were in this school, so we stayed behind to get our diplomas, which was
about a week or 10 days, got our diplomas and they wanted us just like that, overnight,
straight to Devins. 21:53 They loaded one complete railroad car, passenger coach,
and highballed all the way across the United States to catch up with them. Well, I got up
there about Ash Wednesday during holy week and I went to the barracks I was assigned
to and in about 4 days they gave us the notice to go down to the docks, we were going to
Europe. I guess everyone knows the history of that, we didn’t go to Europe, the Japs had
broken through at New Guinea and were marching toward Port Moresby and Australia
was in danger of being invaded. Well, Macarthur wanted the 1st division that was ready
to ship and that was us. We turned back, got on trains and headed right on back to San
Francisco. 22:48 We were there about 5 days, they loaded us on the boat. I went on the
Lurline, a passenger ship; ironically it was April 22nd when I boarded it. One year and
one day in the service. We stayed in this convoy, the complete division was shipped all
at once, the first time that was ever tried, and we arrived May 14th in Adelaide. We were
scheduled to go to Sidney, but because of the Coral Sea battle and the secrecy, they didn’t
know if the Japanese won that battle or the Americans, they were really sailing to get us,
they intended to hit that convoy I was in and as it was the Americans won, but as a
defense maneuver, instead of going to the middle of Australia, we went down to the base
which was like Florida compared to New York. 23:48 We went there and trained there
for a while.

Interviewer: “Martin, how old were you at this time?”
Well, I was 22 years old at this time. Born September 7th and we landed in May, so I was
just 22.

5

�Interviewer: “Now when you arrived in Australia, a 22 year old kid from Grand Rapids,
Michigan, what was the reaction of the Australians? Did you have any contact with them
at all?”
Yes I did. When we would get a pass and go into town, they were very receptive; they
invited us into their homes. Most of their soldiers were prisoners, I guess at Holbrook
where they fought, and they treated us very nice. 24:35
Interviewer: “What was your training like there?”
Learning how to eat mutton. We had a lot of different food when we arrived there. Not
as much beef as we had in the states, but our training was basically the same thing as it
was in the states, maneuvering, out there setting up CP’s, which is a command post, and
just waiting for the next assignment to move forward. 25:05
Interviewer: “what were your rank and your position, your job so to speak, within this
organization?”
Well, of course, I went in basic as a Private as everybody does unless they have had
military training or been to a school. I was in basic until I got into communications then I
ranked up as a Private First Class. So I stayed as a Private First Class the first year and a
half or two years. After we got out of action I got a Corporal assignment.
Interviewer: “But you were a Private there in Australia?”
No, I was already a First Class.
Interviewer: “You were in communications?”
Yes, I was in communications, switchboard, I tried for radio, but couldn’t pick up the
Morris code quick enough so I stayed right where I was. 26:03
Interviewer: “Let’s get an idea of where you fit into the scheme of things. The training
is beach landings or you said setting up command posts. What were you doing though
while this was going on?”
Until we went up to Camp Cable, which was in the middle of Australia, Brisbane, we
didn’t do more than I already mentioned, but once we got up to Camp Cable, we started
stringing wire up in the woods and camps up there. We had to string wire from every
company back to the command post. My training then was mainly just switchboard,
maneuvering and stringing wire, beach defenses and things like that. 26:50
Interviewer: “Because it has relevance later on, in New Guinea, what does stringing
wire consist of? What all is involved in doing that?”
Well, it’s a paired wire that came on reels about 18 inch drums and about 6 inch in
diameter. It was a field wire and you would climb a tree or a pole, whatever was in the
jungle, of course there were no poles in the jungle, but at Brisbane we had some there.
You would climb up, get it above the height of trucks or any equipment that was going to
go through, tie it in and bring it all the way out to a company like I or K that was based
about a half mile away from regimental that I was at. Regimental was a command post
and everything had to go through us in order to be completed in their assignment. 27:44

6

�Interviewer: “With your experience in the telephone company, you could climb trees
fairly easy. Did you have any kind of equipment that you had to use?”
The same equipment, spurs and a belt.
Interviewer: “So you would go up a tree and string it high enough so it doesn’t interfere
with trucks and all that, come back down, walk the wire to the next tree and climb that
tree?”
There were usually 3 men climbing at a time, so the first man would tie in, the next man
on the next tree would pull it up tight, tie it around the tree and the 3rd man then all 3 of
us would come down and go on. The Jeep was right behind us. We had two types of
field wire, a heavy one and a light one, but we used more light than we did the heavy
because it stands to reason, a heavy reel, heavy wire is 10 times heavier than the smaller
reel. 28:39 Were talking 80 pounds probably.
Interviewer: “ did you have, I mean your climbing up a tree, your wiring stuff up, your
going up and down, there’s a Jeep behind you, I realize your mind is geared towards your
work, but did you have any sense at all of, your going to go into battle and do this?”
No, I guess none of us ever feared or ever gave it consideration. We figured that
eventually we would get into action, but that looked like it was a long time down the
road. Basically because we didn’t get the maps and the information that the officers were
getting. They didn’t want to alarm us I guess.
Interviewer: “Did you have access to radio broadcasts, news papers, did you have any
idea what was going on in the world?”
Very little. Most of the information that I got came from home, people writing back to
me and telling me what was going on. It wasn’t the day of the cell phone, where I could
just pick it up and say “hello”.
Interviewer: “I guess what I’m trying to get across is that particular period of time was
really the dark days for America and all over Europe and all over Asia. Did you have any
sense at that time, actually we were losing, was there any sense of that?”
Well we got a little G.I. newspaper out once in a while and there would be information on
the battles in there, but we never had a total picture. 30:18
Interviewer: “so what happened next?”
Well, “where did I stop? Did I stop at training?” “Ya.”
Interviewer: “You were stringing wires in Australia.”
We were there about 6 or 7 months and we got a notice to pack up, we were going to go
to New Guinea, of course they didn’t tell us where we were going. We got on our trains
and went down to the boats and loaded up and in about 4 or 5 days we arrived at Port
Moresby. After landing, we went to an area, there was a large hill behind us,
background, and we stationed down below and set up camp there. It wasn’t more than 3
or 4 days and the flies were just horrible and we started getting dysentery, so it wasn’t
long before they started calling it “dysentery ridge” up there because everyone was

7

�getting sick. Eventually we overcame it, got better rations there in the kitchen and from
there they started assigning companies to go over the mountains. 31:38
Interviewer: “Let’s spend some more time on Port Moresby. This arrival into New
Guinea, I take it, was much different than your arrival into Australia? Primitive, would
that be accurate?”
That’s pretty close to it. We’ve seen the first natives.
Interviewer: “let’s talk about that. You arrive there on the beach and what do you see?“
Well, there was a little town called Port Moresby that had a few buildings and a few
hotels like any other city, but we were stationed about 4 miles out from it. We would go
into town once in a while with the wire Jeep to get supplies and come back. That was our
only contact with the city at that time. Back where our bivouac area was or where we
were camping, the natives were curious and would come in and we were curious to see
them too. 32:39 One of our men from town here, Eddie Zelinski, got a parrot out of a
cocoanut tree and boy those natives went wild. They couldn’t communicate, but they
wanted that bird in the worst way. So we gave them the bird. They took a little
cocoanut husk, lit that and held it over temporary and ate the remains of that bird. I guess
they burnt the feathers off and all of us gagged and left. 33:09 The whole thing went too
quick, we were moving out and were told we were going to fly over the mountain, well
the 1st Bat---, I’m not sure, was it the 2nd Battalion that went over the mountain? I forget
which one it was. They were able to walk across or tried to walk across, because the Japs
were halfway up the trail and it took them 49 days. They secured the area, the Japs were
in retreat, they flew us up to Dubador and we landed there, we flew in 40 hours while it
took them 49 days to go through mud and rain, water and mountains. Then we had to
walk 11 days to get to Buna. 33:59
Interviewer: “Let’s start with the arrival of your aircraft. You landed at an airfield?
Give us an idea of what you’re seeing around you.”
Well, I saw a lot of jungle on the flight going over and crossing those mountains. There
was a grass field where the natives had trimmed the tall grass down. It was a rough
landing, but it was land able. They had pretty smooth ground there for the approach, but
as you got into where the grass was, it became a little rough and bumpy. 34:38 Our
particular plane, as it came in, the right wing hit a branch out of a tree and it put a dent in
it about the size of a football. The pilot said, “we were lucky, we didn’t lose the wing”.
He took it gradually and the rest of us sat there shaking our heads. We landed and the
first thing we see is wounded on a stretcher. They had carried him back that far and some
of them came back on a Jeep on a trail that was built. We had now gone and talked to the
guys that were wounded and that was our first taste of what it was like ahead. 35:25 We
spent half of the day there organizing and then started up the trail.
Interviewer: “How many men are you talking about?”
In my company there were at least 250 men. Wartime strength. I would say 4 other
companies came in and landed the same day we did. Probably close to 1,000 men.
Interviewer: “What was the weather like?”

8

�It rained every day. All of a sudden a storm would come in, lightning, thunder. We
always had sun immediately afterward. Your uniform would start steaming. 36:16
Interviewer: “Lets talk about what you’re wearing and what your carrying as your
walking these 11 miles.”
When I landed I was wearing fatigues that were green in color. A fatigue hat plus my full
pack, a helmet and a trenching tool. We started up the trail, started going over another
mountain, I was probably number 40 in the trail going up and by the time we had walked
2 days, the first night it started raining in the jungle and I sat in-between a tree that had
fins like, my back against it, my shelter half on, sat there most of the night trying to get
some rest. At that time I smoked and I used to light a cigarette under the poncho and just
smoke so it wouldn’t show and to keep it dry too. We marched for about 3 days to get
over this mountain. It was muddy, terrible conditions, you had to pull yourself up on
trees or vines or whatever there was. We chopped out steps that the natives had made
long before we arrived.
Interviewer: ‘so there was some semblance of a trail?”
Oh, yes, going up that part. I prided myself at that age; I was 6 feet tall and probably 180
pounds. I said, “I’m going to beat everybody up this mountain”, and I did lead, I got
there within 100 yards of this village where they had a ration drop. When one of the
cooks went bye me like I was standing still and the chuckled all the way. He said, “I was
going to beat you really”, and I came in second anyway.
Interviewer: “You mentioned ration drops, what is that?”
Well, you can only carry so much food with you, so they would have a designated village
and they would come over the village and kick out rations on parachutes. 38:20
Everybody would re-supply with the rations. In fact, I think that was one of the first
causalities, one of the airplanes the Colonel was on crashed into the woods. There is
quite a history about that flight. There is a place in Ohio, Franklin, Ohio that has a
museum, General Gill, our commanding General, who was in charge at this time, it was
his hometown. We would just; we couldn’t imagine what it was like ahead of us. We
knew where we were at the present, but we knew we were going toward combat because
we saw the Australians they had carried back. 39:14 The Australians were engaged and
we took over the war from them. We relieved them.
Interviewer: “did you hear the sounds of battle as you are walking?”
No, not until we got up to the Buna area and Sanananda, we didn’t hear anything. No
gunshots or artillery fire or anything like that. On the 11th day when we got there, we
were in the rear of the Australians, they told us we were going to relieve the Aussies and
take their positions over. That’s when we drove up, walked up into the positions. We
had to string wire now because those outposts out there needed information. Sadly, there
were no maps. Those officers that were civilians had nothing really, to work with, just a
little plantation map showing where the cocoanut trees were, where the rivers were,
where the trails were and the rest was all jungle. 40:21
Interviewer: “What was your job when you arrived there at that encampment in Buna?”

9

�The first thing everybody did was to dig a fox hole o you had a place to go in case there
was any strafing of the enemy and by the enemy and after that we set up a switchboard
probably 36 inches long and about 18 inches wide with about 12 drops across, which
caught a crank and a little lever would drop down. Well, on the back of it were 2 posts
where we had to put our wire and our Sergeants told us where to go. 41:00
Interviewer: “Now what was that hooked up to, in terms of the wire? Where were they
going? Did you know or did you have any idea?”
Oh yes, through the training we had, we knew we were going to put field phones out
there for the officers and Sergeants to use. They would go out to all the companies. They
would go out to outposts where artillery observers were spotting or air cover, so at times
we’d be beyond the enemy lines or in back of them where the outpost was, so they could
observe the enemy when they moved. 41:41
Interviewer: “In today’s age of digital phones and all this kind of stuff, lets try to get a
better, clearer idea of – you are now in Buna, you’ve got this switchboard which has the
ability of plugging in and that plug ties you into a wire which goes out to an outpost or
goes out to another area?”
That is correct.
Interviewer: “this is physical wire, so if a bomb goes off and blows it us, you no longer
have the connection.”
That’s right.
Interviewer: “So your now there, the wires are set up, what were you actually doing?
Were you taking phone calls? Were you plugging in?
I was never a switchboard operator. There were certain men that were assigned for that,
but if you can visualize the switchboard having a little crank, if you crank it and it went
around easy it meant there was something wrong, no one would answer on the other side,
that wire was broken either by one of our troops stumbling over it or it was broken by an
explosion or deliberately cut and until that happened we stayed right back in the
command post. Once the Sergeant came up and said, “Bolt, Revada, you got to go out,
the lines open”, so we’d go up to the switchboard, “which line is it? It beeps red, ok.”
The lines were all tagged, we knew which one to follow and they would give us a 12 man
squad to protect us while we were doing the looking for it and repairing it. That’s strictly
what my duty was at that time. 43:33
Interviewer: “Now are you talking about actually leaving headquarters, following
visually a wire until you come to the point where it is broken and then repairing it-----?”
And coming back to the regimental headquarters.
Interviewer: “Give us an example, do you remember the first time you had to go out?”
I have to think for a minute.
Interviewer: “If not the first, perhaps one of the memorable.”

10

�They were almost all similar, we’d get a rifle squad and follow it out and repair it. A
couple of times we got ambushed, the rifle squad would do their job; they were assigned
to spread out while we were repairing it. We always had a little bit of slack in the line so
they could pull it back to the trail. When we strung it, as the company moved forward,
we would always walk off the trail about 3 or 4 feet trying to conceal it, just stretch it on
the ground. At that time we didn’t put it in trees in the jungle when you’re in action
because obviously they would see it. 44:41 We would try to string it back off the trail.
Interviewer: “Let’s talk about the ambush.”
Well, an ambush is just what the word means. It’s the enemy sitting out there waiting for
you, deliberately cutting the wire, you’d come out with your squad and they’d have 2 or 3
men on the trail set up with a machine gun and maybe half a dozen off the trail waiting
for you to come through. I know of one incident that we got ambushed. Baker and
Spencer from that rifle company were shot in the head, both of them. The Sergeant in
charge said, “they’re dead, they’re hit in the head and there is no sense getting their
bodies now, we’ll come back later.” So, we withdrew and sat there and called for mortar
fire, mortar fire is a shell that is put in the barrel and flung forward, and they usually do
the first round in smoke to see how close they are to you and maybe another round of
smoke. All the mortars are adjusted to the degree and height and the Sergeant would say
“fire” and maybe 50 to 100 shell would go in the jungle and they would take off and you
could hear them screaming when it got in to close to them. 46:23 On one occasion, if
you visualize a triangle, the wire was cut on the A-side, we got up to repair it when the
lead scout held his hand up and said, “They’re setting up a machine gun!” I, being
anxious to get back to the base said, “let’s charge them and throw grenades at them and
get out of here.” The Sergeant said, “Oh no, no there’s too big of a company there.” So,
in the triangle were going to walk back across to the B-side of the triangle and try to go
up that way. Well, when we went down through the jungle, down off the trail, we walked
through an area where they had camped overnight and it gave us a lot of information on
the number of fires, cold ashes, their rations, rice and stuff they were eating, so they
estimated probably 100 men were in that group. We got back to B-side, called in the
information, told them we were coming back on the B-side and not to fire at us. That’s
when the engagement started. I didn’t have a compass, but fortunately Sergeant did and
he knew how to read it and he got us back safely. We still had to go up there and repair
that wire. Well, when they threw all those mortar shells in there, that cleared a lot of that
area, so then we went back that afternoon and repaired the wire. They estimated that they
had killed about 40. I didn’t go onto where the shell were, the riflemen did. I did my job
and went back. 48:13 That’s the type of ambush you could run into. Some days you
could go out there and there would be nothing, but the wire broke because something,
they needed a piece of wire for equipment or cut it, or grabbing it and walking up there,
they might have broken it.
Interviewer: “You were talking about calling back in, were you using crank
telephones?”
Yes, field phones.

11

�Interviewer: “So, you’ve got a wire that’s strung out there and it’s cut at a certain point.
You would ---“
We would put it on our phone, the 2 terminals and just hand crank it, which had a small
generator in it, and that would go to the switchboard, that current and it would drop a
little square lever maybe and inch by inch and the operator would plug in and get the
information from us.
Interviewer: “Where did you go from there?”
From Buna?
Interviewer: “Ya.”
Well, we stayed in Buna for something like a month and a half or 6 weeks and another
division came up to relieve us, from Pennsylvania, and we were pulled to a rear area and
spent New Years and Christmas in the rear area. If we had a little connection with the
medical department, we could get some G.I. alcohol and make a little drink up with the
orange synthetic juice they had there. From there we went back to Australia to regroup
and rebuild and get paid, we hadn’t been paid in months and they took us down to a
resort area, Tweeda and Coolingada and we were on that beach for about 5 weeks
recuperating and enjoying the Australian cities. 50: 23 We would grab a train or a bus
and go into the city for recreation on the week-end. We were issued new sweaters and
new cottons and we really looked good compared to the way we looked 4 months ahead
of that. We slept many a night with wet clothing and wet shoes that never dried out.
Your feet looked all shriveled, so this time we were really living it up. 50.48
Interviewer: “Did you see combat again after that?”
Oh yes, I stayed with the division from New Guinea we went back in January of 1944.
We went to Saidor and made a landing there, went to Kope and made a landing there.
Interviewer: “Lets talk about these landings.”
Well, You would get on a LCI, a landing craft, and from a safe base you would start out
for Saidor and make a land division, it’s just like the sound of it, it’s the same thing. The
LCI would go up to the beach, drop the front end down and you would run out of it and
up the beach. It usually was softened by artillery fire from the navy, air fire, air bomb,
bombing and once you hit the beach you’d have an assigned area to secure. There was
always a red, blue and white beach and whatever one you were assigned to you’d go in
there and that’s where you set up your post, your command post. 52:00
Interviewer: “ Was there much resistance when you first arrived?”
I can’t say there was any great resistance. There was fire of course and soldiers were hit
and killed. They were not that heavily mechanized. The first wave always got the
original fire. I was coming in on either the 2nd or 3rd wave of boats that were in there.
It’s hard to tell you because people aren’t acquainted with any of it. Actually it was
everyone running for safety to get up in the jungle. 52:39 It’s just what you have to do,
you have to do.

12

�Interviewer: “So when you hit the beach, you’re hearing gun fire and I suppose you’re
seeing guys getting hit?”
Not too much, the first wave was pretty much up into the jungle already. Yes, we seen
the ones that were killed laying on the beach.
Interviewer: “Then you get into the jungle itself and you secure your area, what
happens next?”
Well, that’s where the battalion commanders call back and tell them what they’re facing.
Then the headquarters officers stationed with us, the Colonels, they make a decision
which way to move, which way to go, to call for artillery, or to call for bombing. On one
occasion we were supposed to set on the red beach and when we went in and got maybe a
mile into shore we heard planes approaching and we said, “oh, oh, here they come”, and
it was our own planes bombing an air strip. The ground was just like jelly, we were
laying there and we said, “this isn’t right, they’re almost hitting us.” Then the Captain
came up behind us and said, “what the hell are you doing up here?” our Sergeant turned
around and said, “ were trying to get to red beach” and he said, “you’re not even on red
beach “, so we landed, we landed right, but instead of turning right, the Sergeants and
officers took us to the left. 54:27 For once we knew what it was like right up at the front
where the bombs were hitting.
Interviewer: “So in terms of what your job was, were you running wire at this time or
were you just part of the group moving forward?”
We were part of the group that was moving forward and we were going to set up the
command post, but after we told where are beach landing was over there, we razzed our
Sergeants and officers quite a bit, set up our command post, dug our fox holes and waited
for further orders to advance. 55:10
Interviewer: “You got the further orders to advance?
Yes.
Interviewer: “ Where did you go from there?”
Well, we’d go up further into the jungle to drive the enemy back. Sometimes you would
sit there 2 days, 3 days before you would move, before they found out how to get through
the line and how to surround them. Remember again, they didn’t have no great maps like
they did in Europe or any other country.
Interviewer: “Some of the other Red Arrows were talking about the snipers as a
constant threat, did you have a problem with the snipers?”
Yea, we did. We had 3 or 4 sharp shooters in our company and we drew fire from the
snipers and a couple of our men got hit and they got this sharp shooter up there to fire up
there into the tree, they would wait for him to fire so they knew where he was. They
would pick them off, but most of them would fall out of the trees into the earth, but some
of them were tied in with a rope or vine or something. They were probably cautious;
afraid they would fall out of the tree. 56:27

13

�Interviewer: “So, that particular battle was actually won, right? You guys got
through?”
Yea, they cut a line between the Aitepe and Saidor and the enemy were divided. We had
them surrounded so they made an effort to get through and they picked them off as they
came through. 57:08
Interviewer: “From there that island was secured?”
Yes.
Interviewer: “So, where did you go from there?”
After we left Saidor, we went to Aitepe and from Aitepe we had the same experience
there. We were there about 100 days, 3 months at Aitepe and from there we went to
Morotai and did the same procedure, fight the enemy. Then from there we went to
Morotai and at Morotai we were told we were going to be part of MacArthur’s division
when he landed for returning so we practiced marching. Would you believe it, in the
jungle? For about 2 weeks we were marching completely every day to make us look
sharp and organized. 57:58 Well, that ‘s where were going to go, were going to go to
Manila, but in the meantime on Leyte Island the Japs had broken through the defenses
there and they needed another division. That was us, we were ready to go so we got rid
of our cottons and all of our nice looking wear and put on the old uniform again. We
made a landing on leyte in January of 1945 and secured the beach, went up the tail and it
wasn’t long after that that we got into an engagement with the enemy. 58:41 We drove
them back, you have to remember we were forced to face the most, well the Japanese
Imperial Army was just like the marines best division, they’ve never been defeated and
any obstacle they went to get they were successful. The 32nd division was the first
division that defeated them completely every place we met them. 59:06
Interviewer: “I have talked to obviously to the infantry guys and other members of the
“Red Arrow”, but when you go into an engagement with the enemy, what actually are
you doing?”
Well, what were actually doing is, communication was so vital because one Colonel had
to know what one company is doing and what another company was doing so they could
maneuver through the jungle and get behind the enemy lines, or wait for them to come
down the trail. 59:37 I would string the wire, we would string the wire out so you had
communications. They also had a radio operator with them with the old hand crank
generator. They would send out Morse Code. Well, we’d wait until we got orders to
move forward again to another area. 59:59
Interviewer: “I guess it may not be clear to people the kind of danger you were in,
because while an infantry guy is literally there with a gun and he is looking to defend
himself or his fellow soldiers, your mind has to be focused on that, but your also focused
on getting the wire out into the jungle.”
That’s true. Well, it’s a duty you have to perform. I was very fortunate that I was never
hit. I was shot at, but I never was hit and I can honestly say I can’t remember ever killing
an enemy Jap directly. I fired into the jungle like I was told to do, like I was supposed to

14

�do, but I never really walked up to a body and said, “this is one that I got”. By the grace
of God I got through the way that I did. 1:05
Interviewer: “Now, that particular battle was what? You only alluded to it and it was a
very fierce battle. You were up against the top Japanese force and your group overcame,
that’s one of the reasons why the “Red Arrow” is so well known, because of that. Did
you find that your enemy was as their reputation deserved, that they were a fierce enemy
to fight against?” 1:33
They were very well trained, they were very clever and they were very well camouflaged.
They use to come out of spider holes; you never knew where they would be next. Our
division took great pride in that we accomplished as much as we did. At all our reunions,
we get together we occasionally talk about it. Yes, we walk with pride. 1:59
Interviewer: “You know one thing that is kind of hard to get across is that if you’re in
an environment that Europe for example, your fighting house to house, jungle fighting is
completely unique. You have the weather against you, major tropical diseases, malaria
and what not. We haven’t even talked about malaria and things like that. Were there
people around you who were affected? Were you affected?”
Well, I fortunate in one way, there was myself and a man by the name of Bonzell, we
were the last 2 to get malaria in our company. 2:39
Strange as it must be, I got malaria in the hospital. I was taking my pills faithfully, they
were atabrine, it’s like synthetic quinine and it kind of controlled the mosquito bites. I
went into the hospital for yellow jaundice and while I was in there, about 2 weeks, I woke
up one night with the shakes, cold then hot. I hollered out to the ward boy and he came
down and said, “what?” I said,” can I have some medicine, I got a fever?” He said,
“OK’ and he brought me medicine and they wrote it in the report. The Captain came
down the next day and talked to me. He said,” have you ever had malaria before?” I
said,” never” and he said, “have you been out of the hospital?” I said, “no I haven’t, I
stayed right in the hospital.” “Have you had any visitors?” “No.” He said, “oh nuts.” I
said, “what’s the matter?” He said, “I’ve got to call for spraying the whole hospital area
because you got malaria right here in the hospital” 3:54 So the rest of the day they were
spraying the whole area with planes to get the mosquitoes that were in there. I also had a
amoeba dysentery, it’s the worst kind of dysentery you can get. It’s a little parasite that
clings to the bowel wall and ulcerates it. It eats away at the bowel and I had that. It took
something like maybe 4 months for it to clear up. It’s unbelievable how miserable you
can be with all these diseases and illness.
Interviewer: “One of the things that is really amazing that I heard from the other
members of the “Red Arrow” group was that even if you did have malaria on the line,
that didn’t necessarily you were going home or into the hospital.”
No, it didn’t help you a bit. You had to stay. I can remember my buddy, Joe Ravadas, in
the fox hole next to me, he was a Corporal at that time and my boss, he had a 104° fever
and I took care of him and brought him canteens of water, I tried to give him food to eat,
but you had to have more than 105° to get back to the base to the hospitals. 5:13 There
were times we had maybe 50 to 100 men in the front on our flank and most of them had
malaria. They just had to sweat it out.

15

�Interviewer: “And still fight. That is the hard thing. Malaria makes you so weak that a
gun becomes very hard to handle and still having to shoot it and defend your life, it’s
hard to even imagine.” 5:35
It’s possible the human body can stand that much pain and misery and still be able to
fight, you’re right.
Interviewer: “what happened when you got out of the hospital?”
Well, I had lost, I was probably down to 120 pounds, I’d grown a mustache and I went
back to the company street where they were based in leyte and walked up the street and I
hollered “hi Jim how are ya?” and the guy said, “who are you? Are you a replacement?”
and I said, “no, I’m Bolt” and he said, “no you’re not Bolt, I don’t recognize you.” I said,
“I am” and he said, “you’re so skinny.” That’s what happened, that diarrhea did that. In
fact they had me on baby food for something like 30 days to see of they could stop it. I
wasn’t allowed any solid food. 6:35 They hand out a yellow slip for the baby food and a
red slip for the meat, so when you went through you had to give a slip. I traded a couple
of times with guys who were playing cards and didn’t want to go to dinner. I said, “give
me your red slip, I got to have something to eat solid.” That is some of the humor that
happened down there. 6:55
Interviewer: “So after you got out of the hospital, you went back to your unit. What
happened then?”
Well, I got back to the unit; they were in a rest area cleaning their equipment and doing
the things that you do in a rest area when we got orders to leave Leyte and go to Luzon
and to go up the Villa Verde trail. Around January of 1945 we went up to the Villa
Verde trail, our landing was safe because it had already been secured, and we came in
and talked to a few of the natives in this village while we waited for further orders and
the enemy had a bonsai attack, which is an all out attack. They scream and they run at
you and fire at you. I kind of figured they took a little dope to get that high they really
worked them up. We had to go forward to get the land we had lost on the trail, so we
went forward, our division did and we started our mopping up from May of 1945 to
August of 1945. That gave us a total of 660 days of combat, which no other division had
done. 8:19 That’s where I discharged or started my return, at Luzon in the Philippines.
Interviewer: “So you never got a chance to watch MacArthur’s return?”
No, I didn’t see it. Some of the men of our division did get to see it.
Interviewer: “Yes, Janicki told me he was on the beach when he came.”
Yea, he was on the beach when he came.
Interviewer: “That was a great story he told by the way, you’ll have to watch it. Let’s
talk about these banzai charges. I know what one is, but try to give us an idea for
someone who has no idea what that means.”
Well, it’s an all out attack. The Japanese soldiers work themselves into a frenzy. “Do
you know if they were using dope or anything? You don’t know either?” We suspected

16

�that they did because they came charging at us like they were insane, just disregarding
their lives at all; they just keep coming, charge, charge.
Interviewer: “Were these like bayonet charges or fire?”
Bayonet and fire, they were running.
Interviewer: “They just come out of the jungle? Tearing at you and you have to just
shoot and shoot?”
Yea, I didn’t get in on the shooting end of it. 9:44 From the stories I heard from the
other men, they would fire their machine guns, the barrel would get red hot and they
would have to either replace the barrel or get another gun. They just kept coming.
Interviewer: “Where were you when these were happening? You were at the command
post?”
Yes, I was at the command post.
Interviewer: “So you’re actually part of the team that is hearing this.”
Yea, were about ½ a mile behind the line. We could hear the firing and the shelling and
grenade explosions. It wouldn’t last too long, maybe 15 minutes and we were either
successful or defeated. 10:26
Interviewer: “Was there any sense throughout, I know this is a very difficult question to
answer, but you were listening to all the different communications and your part of the
communications team, was there any sense at all that you guys were winning or losing?”
Well, we knew we were winning because we were advancing. As for the information
that was fed back to us, it was very little except casualties, a couple of times we had to
help carry them out, grave registration was part of our company. They would go out and
dig the holes, take the dog tags, mark it on a map where the bodies were so you could
recover them later. It was difficult only because where we were we knew that a company
was successful or not, the rest of the information was just passed down verbally. 11:28
Interviewer: “So, finally you get a chance to go home?”
Ok, I had—the first group that went out had—I think, if I remember correctly, had to
have 88 points or something like that. You got points by the time you were in the
service, the number of months you were in combat. Unfortunately if you were in the
hospital that didn’t give you 2 points, it only gave you 1 point, so I wasn’t one of the first
ones to get out. 12:04 We got mail from the guys that were the first ones out with the
higher points. The National Guard would have higher points because they were in the
state longer than we were. I was up on the front when I got informed that I would be
going out in July, first it was June, then they, in the period of the month of June, they
changed the procedure for points and that’s when I lost points because I was in the
hospital, so I got the feeling that I would never get home. 12:42 I had written to
Virginia, the girl I was engaged to, I wrote to her and told her that she should get on with
her life because I was never getting out. I was discouraged, depressed and she wrote
back, “I’m going to wait no matter how long it is”. So, that kept me going and made me
feel better. Finally July came and I was called up and they said, “we want to give you

17

�your staff Sergeant rank, I was a T5, they said, “ were going to give you a Staff Sergeant
rank”, and I said, “What for?” and they said, “Well, you going back and there’s a rank
open.” I said, “I don’t want the rank, just get me out of here.” So, I went back to Manila
in July and waited for the boats. We were there about a week and they loaded the boats
and I started home. 13:44 We arrived at Hawaii about the 1st of August, maybe the later
part of July, we sat in the harbor there while they took on water and supplies and we
weren’t allowed to go into Hawaii, just a certain designated group that probably were
Colonels or higher up or Captains were permitted to go. That of course caused a lot of
distress and hollering, the guys were yelling at them when they got on the boat to go into
shore. 14:20 We were there only overnight then the next morning we took off and
arrived at San Francisco about the first of August. We were taken to an auditorium and
we were offered a 30 day vacation in Miami Florida then get a discharged later, lose that
wanted to didn’t go to Miami, they only had 6 men stand up out of about 1,000 in the
auditorium that took the vacation and we kind of booed them and told them there would
be another 30 days, but I think they kind of won up because I got out of the service on
August 6th. I had a couple other buddies with me and they said, “where are we going to
meet you?” We went alphabetically and their names were lower than ours. We said, “at
the first subway station and the first bar that is closest to the subway station under the
stairway. We’ll wait for you there.” So, we did. We got out about 1:30 that afternoon
and they arrived about 3:30 and they wanted us to stay and have a few drinks and we
said, “no, were going into Chicago and we’ve got to hurry.” So, we went into Chicago
and unfortunately the train schedule wasn’t in our favor. It was already loaded and we
had to stay overnight. 15:46 So, all of us had a party that night and we got haircuts,
massages, facials and all that, the whole works. The next day was August the 6th, I forgot
august the 6th was the day we went into Chicago. I told you about the atomic bomb
being dropped, well that’s the day I got out of the service. The papers said it would be
over within weeks and they were right. Then we got into Chicago and left on august the
7th on a train for Grand Rapids and of course it was a milk run, every station we had to
stop, railroad station. I got to Grandville oh, about I’d say just about dark, dusk about
7:00 at night and I knew the next stop was our Union Depot here and of course I had my
barracks bag with me and my supplies that were in the bag, things that I had saved. 17:02
Interviewer: “ In uniform?”
Yes, in uniform. When I arrived at the Grand Rapids depot I was going to walk and my
legs were shaking, I couldn’t walk so I threw the old barracks bag over my shoulder and
started running down the tracks. I was able to run better, I ran into the depot and there
was my mother and father, Virginia, my wife to be and her family, all my relations and
friends that were there waited for us to come and from there we went to my folks house
and had coffee and cake. 17:38 That was the end of my military career. I was finished.
Interviewer: “I know it is very difficult, but just for the families record, not the historical
record, try to give us an idea of what it was like when you ran into that depot and there
they all were?”
Well, it was something I was waiting for, for years. My heart was racing and I looked at
my folks, they were 5 years older, 41/2 years older, my dad was in his topcoat, he looked
great, he had a hat on and a cigar in his mouth. My mother had her big hat on and she
was crying of course, I hugged them both and my sisters were there and I hugged them. I

18

�didn’t find Virginia, and I thought,” where is she?” She was hiding behind someone to
see if I would ask for her I guess, I had a sinking feeling right ten and there that there was
something wrong if I didn’t see her, I though, “ oh, oh she’s married to somebody else
and didn’t tell me or something.” It turned out all right. 18:51
Interviewer: “Well Martin, I just want to say thank you very much, not only for the
interview, but as I say to a lot of vet, my father was one as well, we wouldn’t have the
freedoms that we have today if you had not done the things that you did for us and for
your country. Were going to end with a request that you made about setting the record
straight about the name Bolt. I didn’t forget, I didn’t forget.”
It was interesting when my sisters went into nurses training, nobody could pronounce the
name Bult, it’s B U L T, so she went in to register at nursing as the name Bolt so she told
her dad about it and he said, “that’s ok because your name will change anyway when
your married.” All the girls continued with Bolt, it sounded better than Bult and I went in
service, I went to school under Bolt, when I went into the service, I went in under Bolt
and while I was in service the FBIO came up to the house and said, “where’s Minzol
Bult?” That’s the Dutch name for Martin. “Where’s Mr. Bult, he didn’t register and we
can’t find him”, and she said, “my son’s in New Guinea”, they said, “no, no”, they didn’t
believe her at first. Finally they talked to some other witnesses and neighbors and civil
authorities they knew and they realized that I was in the service. 20:30 When I got
home I went back to the telephone company and I had to show, to get my job back, I had
to show my birth certificate to make sure, it was some form they had to have, so I brought
my birth certificate over there and he said, “what’s this? Is that a typo error?” No, I
said,” it’s Bult and he said, “you can’t be employed here other than under the name of
Bolt, you’ll have to get it changed legally”, and I thought, “ oh no, not that”. He said,
“all your insurance papers, all your discharge papers, everything on the record is under
Bolt so your going to have to change it if you want to continue working here or go under
Bult”. 21:11 So, I went home and told dad the situation it was and he said, “don’t
bother, just go change it and legally make it Bolt, I can understand it.” So, I went back
down to the city hall and had it changed legally to Bolt. There is quite a bit of difference
between Minzo Hindrick Bult and Martin Henry Bolt.
Interviewer: “That’s for the record, thank you so much, that was wonderful.”
.

19

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Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: Other veterans and civilians
Interviewee name: Harry Bolthouse
Length of Interview: (00:06:20)
Pre-Enlistment
 Background
o Born in Grand Rapids, 1930.
 Family
o Had four brothers.
o Mother was a housewife; father a carpenter.
 Education
o Was in school before enlisting.
o No other family who served in the military.
Enlistment and Training
 Why he joined
o Doesn’t remember why he joined.
 Where he went
o Thought that the departure was horrible, went by train.
o Went to Fort Meade, Maryland.
 Living conditions/Training
o Trained in Tank Driving.
o Didn’t like the food and the social-life was non-existent.
o Was the only one in his barracks to attend church.
o Has cerebral hemorrhages since he was five; has lost a lot of memories so he
doesn’t remember much.
Active Duty/After the Service
 Became worse after having brain surgery/

�</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veteran’s History Project
Bruce Bond
Vietnam War
54 minutes 6 seconds
(00:00:18) Early Life and Awareness of the Vietnam War
-Born in Charlottesville, Virginia on December 2, 1950
-Grew up in Charlottesville
-He enjoyed his high school experience
-Involved in football and baseball
-In high school he was aware of the Vietnam War
-A girlfriend’s brother was in the military police in Vietnam
-He followed the news on Vietnam
-Several boys from his high school went to Vietnam
-Two of them were killed there
-He graduated from high school in 1969
(00:02:04) Enlisting in the Army
-He enlisted in the Army when he was still in high school
-As soon as he graduated he went to basic training
-He knew that he couldn’t pay for college with a sports scholarship
-Felt that the GI Bill would be the best way to go to college
-His father had been in the Air Force, so he knew from experience he didn’t want to join that
-He also had no interest in becoming a Marine either
(00:03:09) Basic Training
-Basic training began in early summer 1969
-He was sent to Fort Gordon, Georgia for basic training
-His first thought was, “What have I gotten myself into?” after being greeted by drill instructors
-He adjusted to basic training and enjoyed it
-He hunted when he was younger, so rifle training came easy for him
-Trained with the M-16 assault rifle, M72 LAW (rocket launcher), M-60 machine gun
-Basic training lasted eight weeks
-Trained with a mix of draftees, enlisted men, and National Guardsmen
(00:04:35) Advanced Infantry Training
-He took advanced infantry training (AIT) at Fort Gordon as well
-His specialization was as an infantryman
-He enjoyed his AIT experience
-In AIT he trained with a wider array of weapons
-Received land navigation training and how to live in the field
-This also involved learning how to go out on patrols
-AIT lasted another eight weeks
(00:05:13) Deployment to Vietnam
-At the end of AIT he was allowed to go home for thirty days of leave
-After his leave he reported for his deployment to Vietnam
-He had received his deployment orders at the end of AIT

�-He knew from the start he would probably wind up in Vietnam
-Officially being deployed didn’t shock him
-In a way he was looking forward to going to Vietnam
-His instructors in training had been Vietnam veterans, so they helped prepare him
-Made sure that they knew how to set up ambushes, call in airstrikes, and eat rations
-He reported in Seattle, Washington and stayed there for three days
-From Seattle he flew to Vietnam and landed in Cam Ranh Bay
-In Cam Ranh Bay he received his orders and a couple days of in-country training
-The in-country training basically served as an introduction to being in Vietnam
-The first two things that he noticed was how hot it was, and how the country smelled
-Overall, it was a cultural shock for him
-He arrived in Vietnam in September 1969
(00:09:10) Assignment to 58th Infantry Platoon (Scout Dog)
-In Cam Ranh Bay he received his orders to join the 58th Infantry Platoon (Scout Dog)
-It was a part of the 3rd Brigade of the 101st Airborne Division at Camp Evans
-Going into his assignment he wasn’t sure of what to expect
-At Camp Evans he was assigned to a dog and received handler training from another handler
-Handler training lasted two weeks
-The dog was a German Shepherd whose name was Jim Dandy
-He had already been trained, but he had a bad attitude (bit everyone)
-If he (Bruce) couldn’t get Jim to cooperate Jim would be put down
-After spending two hours with Jim they became a perfect match
(00:12:34) Dog Handler Training
-Started off with simple commands
-Sit, heel, come
-Moved on to running the obstacle course together
-Consisted of crawling in tunnels, jumping obstacles and getting over low walls
-The simple training lasted about three, or four, days
-Jim was an off leash dog which meant he could go a short distance away from Bruce in the field
-If Jim was off the leash in the field Bruce would communicate with hand signals
-He learned how to recognize Jim’s signals
-Finding a booby trap, spider hole, enemy ambush, or a sniper
-At night they walked the perimeter of Camp Evans as part of the training
-Jim was incredibly good at finding the tripwires to booby traps
-After they forged a bond together Jim was incredibly protective of Bruce
-He had always been good with animals, so the training wasn’t too difficult
-The other men were impressed by how obedient Jim was with Bruce
(00:17:34) Jim Dandy’s Background
-Jim came from Texas
-His family had donated him to the Army
-Received training at Fort Benning, Georgia and was deployed to Vietnam
-Somewhere during that time is when Jim became aggressive and violent
-Jim was specifically used as a scout dog
-Walking point with their handler looking for ambushes, or other signs of danger
-There were other dogs used for finding mines, search and rescue, or searching for drugs
-Jim was never bothered by gunfire

�-He was fed a mix of canned and dried dog food
-This added food weight and water weight to Bruce’s rucksack
(00:20:37) Operating in the Field
-They would go out to the field together and meet the commanding officer of a unit
-They were never assigned to a specific unit, just worked with unit’s that needed them
-He served with units in the 1st/506th, 2nd/506th, and all of the units in the 3rd Brigade
-During helicopter rides Jim was calm and even friendly
-Allowed the helicopter crewmen to pet him
-He would go up between the pilot and copilot and let them pet him
-They would stay with a unit for about a week and then return to Camp Evans
-The length of the assignment varied with each unit
-After a certain amount of missions dogs needed to return to Camp Evans for an extended period
-This was especially necessary when they were operating in the mountains
-When they were in the field Jim would have to take 15-20 minute breaks
-This was to keep him from getting too worn out
-In the field Jim would routinely find North Vietnamese, or Viet Cong, bunkers
-He was also good at finding booby-traps and enemy ambushes
-There were times where they would go into the field and they didn’t find anything
-In the field he always had to walk point with Jim (walking in front of the unit)
-The other troops welcomed them because they knew a scout dog increased survivability
-The only problem was that the troops always wanted to pet Jim
-Jim was never okay with that and bit troops that tried to pet him
-Difficult for the troops because a dog was a symbol of home and normalcy
(00:27:07) Unit Rotation
-After they got done in the field they would return to Camp Evans by helicopter
-After a mission they would stand down at Camp Evans for about half a week
-There were twenty man-dog teams in their platoon available for field work
-Sometimes the demand for a scout dog team was so high they only got back for a day, or two
-At Camp Evans Jim always stayed by Bruce’s side
-Jim was only left alone when Bruce went to shower, or to the mess hall
-They even slept in the same room together
-During the monsoons their missions slowed down
-It was too hard to get out to the field because it was too hard to fly in the rains
-Aside from transportation the dogs couldn’t pick out scents as well in the rain
(00:31:20) Firebase Ripcord
-He and Jim were sent to Firebase Ripcord in early June 1970
-About one month before the start of the Battle of Ripcord on July 1, 1970
-They would leave the base in the morning for patrols and return in the evening
-Just patrolled the area around Firebase Ripcord
-Being in the A Shau Valley was a dangerous and foreboding assignment
-The A Shau Valley roughly divided Vietnam and Cambodia
-Had to stay alert at all times
-On Ripcord the first time for about three, or four, days then they would rotate to other firebases
-Whenever they returned to base they would swap information with other handlers
-He always felt invincible with Jim at his side

�(00:35:45) Jim in the Field
-When Jim found a booby-trap he would sit
-If he found an enemy position the hair on his back stood up and he looked in that direction
-At that point Bruce would go and alert the rest of the patrol to Jim’s discovery
-If they were in a valley it was harder for Jim to smell
-If they were on a hill, or any elevated ground, Jim could pick up scents much easier
-If Jim found something the patrol would then make a plan of attack to deal with the threat
-Whenever the found something Jim would stay quiet and never gave away their position
(00:38:10) Getting Wounded
-He was with Bravo Company of the 1st/506th when he was wounded
-He and Jim left to go into the field on June 30, 1970
-They went out to the helipad with another handler and his dog
-As the helicopters came in the other handler and his dog boarded the first helicopter
-Bruce and Jim boarded the second helicopter
-Bruce had originally planned to board the first helicopter
-On July 4 the other handler and his dog were killed in action by a booby trap
-It has haunted Bruce to this day to think about that
-Bruce and Jim were with Bravo Company in their night defensive position (field camp)
-Getting ready to go out for patrols, nothing was happening in the area yet
-Jim picked up a scent and alerted them to a Vietnamese presence just to their left
-As Bruce went to alert the commander a satchel charge exploded in the center of camp
-It was either an attempt to kill the officers, or kill Bruce and Jim
-The Vietnamese knew scout dog teams were highly valued
-After the satchel charge exploded they started taking rocket propelled grenade fire
-In the fighting eighteen men were wounded and one man was killed
-When the fighting began and Bruce got hurt Jim became frantic
-By the time the medic reached Bruce, Bruce had to hold down Jim to calm him down
-In the fighting Bruce had shattered his left foot and took shrapnel in his right leg and back
-Jim began to lick Bruce’s foot to try and heal him
-They were both medevaced out of the field
-It was the only time that Jim didn’t do well on a helicopter
(00:45:19) Leaving Vietnam
-He and Jim made it back to Camp Evans
-Before being treated for his wounds he took Jim to his quarters and made sure he was fed
-He refused being evacuated because he wanted to stay with Jim
-He had extended his enlistment for six months just to be able to stay with Jim
-Against his wishes he was sent to the 95th Evacuation Hospital
-A few days later he woke up on a C-130 bound for Yokohama, Japan
-There was an ugly confrontation because he wanted to go back
-Spent two months in the hospital in Japan
-From Japan he was sent to Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington D.C.
-He wound up spending over a year there
-He had to learn to walk again
-Basically, he had been in worse shape than he thought he was
(00:47:48) Post-War Service
-After being released from Walter Reed he was sent to Fort Benning, Georgia

�-Worked with the military police and their dogs
-He had tried to go back to Vietnam, but his request was denied
-His wounds prevented him from going, and the withdrawal was starting
-At Fort Benning he worked as a trainer for the canine units
-Later on he joined the 11th Special Forces Group in Richmond, Virginia
-It was a reserve unit at the time
-He reenlisted and had gone into the Army Reserves
-When the 11th Special Forces Group was deactivated in 1994, he left too
(00:49:55) Jim’s Fate
-After Bruce left, the Army attempted to reassign Jim to a new handler
-No matter what they tried Jim would not cooperate with a new handler
-One day Jim broke out of the kennel and started to go towards the aid station at Camp Evans
-Bruce thinks that Jim was going to look for him
-Eventually the troops were able to capture Jim, and he was put down
-In retrospect he feels that it was a better fate than what happened to the other dogs
-At the end of the war service dogs were given to South Vietnam
-Intention was to have the South Vietnamese use them like the U.S. had
-Instead the South Vietnamese troops killed and ate the dogs
-Now service dogs are retired and allowed to be adopted by a former handler
(00:53:00) Life after the Army
-He got out of the Army and became a police officer
-He worked in a police K-9 unit for a few years
-After K-9 work he worked as a detective and on a SWAT team
-He worked in Richmond, Virginia as well as in South Carolina
-He made police work his career and wound up retiring from it

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Boring, Frank</text>
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                <text>2014-10-10</text>
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            <name>Description</name>
            <description>An account of the resource</description>
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                <text>Bruce Bond was born in Charlottesville, Virginia, in 1950 and grew up there and attended high school there. After graduating from high school in 1969 he enlisted in the Army. He trained at Fort Gordon, Georgia, as an infantryman, but when he went to Vietnam he trained as a scout dog handler and was assigned to the 58th Infantry Platoon (Scout Dog), which was part of the 3rd Brigade of the 101st Airborne Division, based at Camp Evans. He and his scout dog, Jim Dandy, served on patrols with different units of the brigade, and took part in the actions around Firebase Ripcord in 1970. Bruce was wounded on June 30, 1970, and was sent to the US for treatment. He requested reassignment to Vietnam, but wound up as a scout dog instructor at Fort Benning, Georgia, for the remainder of his enlistment.</text>
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            <name>Creator</name>
            <description>An entity primarily responsible for making the resource</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="778983">
                <text>Bond, Bruce</text>
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            <name>Contributor</name>
            <description>An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource</description>
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                <text>McGregor, Michael (Interviewer)</text>
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          <element elementId="49">
            <name>Subject</name>
            <description>The topic of the resource</description>
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                <text>Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American</text>
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                <text>United States. Army</text>
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                <text>Oral history</text>
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                <text>Veterans History Project (U.S.)</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="778989">
                <text>United States--History, Military</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="778990">
                <text>Michigan--History, Military</text>
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                <text>Veterans</text>
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                <text>eng</text>
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            <name>Source</name>
            <description>A related resource from which the described resource is derived</description>
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                <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455"&gt;Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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            <name>Rights</name>
            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
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                <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/"&gt;In Copyright&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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            <name>Publisher</name>
            <description>An entity responsible for making the resource available</description>
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                <text>Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan</text>
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          <element elementId="46">
            <name>Relation</name>
            <description>A related resource</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="779000">
                <text>Veterans History Project (U.S.)</text>
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            <name>Format</name>
            <description>The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource</description>
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                <text>video/x-m4v</text>
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                <text>application/pdf</text>
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