111 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bc451503d8bbd96184a55b3557c11dab.m4v f36f9fcb39b5b74242c8209fd3b30c9a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/428337fc153b0953087d2507872ca8f1.pdf 0c719d42f9e339a74c61f283f95e8982 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project Tom Bilecki War in Afghanistan 27 minutes 24 seconds (00:00:02) Serving in Afghanistan Pt. 1 -Did two tours in Afghanistan as part of Operation Enduring Freedom -Stationed at Forward Operating Base Frontenac 26 miles north of Kandahar -First tour was in 2004 -Second tour was in 2012 -FOB Frontenac was a good base -Had good housing made out of shipping containers -Had beds -Showers -Dining facilities -Each tour lasted nine months -Federal government federalized his National Guard unit prior to being deployed -Meant that they were technically part of the Army -Three months of pre-deployment training and nine months of tour -National Guard and regular Army troops got along better -National Guardsmen pulled half of the missions in Afghanistan during his tours -Served as an operations sergeant -Worked in the unit command post -Assisted the commander in planning missions and the logistics -Monitored the radios and computers when soldiers went on missions -Reported mission progress to higher-ups -Remembers on one night six Taliban militants infiltrated FOB Frontenac -Came out of Pakistan -Launched their attack at 2:30 a.m. -Heard helicopter gunships firing at the militants inside the FOB -Sirens sounded and he decided that it would be best to get out of bed -Waited to see how long the shooting lasted and if it was moving toward him -Most of his unit was in the field, so he was essentially on his own during the attack -Went up on top of his living quarters to watch as U.S. infantrymen fought the militants -Felt pretty safe during the attack -Only six militants, and their objective had been to sabotage artillery positions -By the end of the firefight all six Taliban militants had been neutralized -10-14 American soldiers wounded in action, and one Afghan national killed in action (00:05:45) Conditions in Afghanistan -Found FOB Frontenac's location to be desolate and flat -Situated in the high desert -Meant the desert itself was about 3,000 feet above sea level and mountainous -Arrived in January during the rainy season -Meant everything was muddy and ugly -In the summer it got really hot -On one summer day it got up to 136o -Fatigues and body armor made it feel even hotter �-40-50% humidity during the summer -Had a sandstorm every ten days -Forced them to shut down operations -Storm lasted about one day -Could always see the storms coming (00:07:50) Deployment to Afghanistan -Had one year of advance warning before deploying to Afghanistan -Twice a month he reported for four days of training to prepare for deployment -Enough time to alert his civilian employer that he was being deployed -Army provided him with a packet to give to his employer explaining the situation (00:08:46) Serving in Afghanistan Pt. 2 -Not too many memorable experiences in Afghanistan -Remembers one instance when his unit got ambushed -He was on the radio in the command post listening to the battle -Had to Medevac a dozen men -Battle lasted from 11 a.m. to 9 p.m. -Had to listen to the entire battle on the radio -Directed air support to aid the troops -Medevacs to evacuate wounded, helicopter gunships, and drones -Drones allowed him to have a bird's eye view of the battle -Medevacs went into a “hot” (taking enemy fire) landing zone if necessary -Nobody was killed in action during that battle -Worst casualties were a few men needed amputations and a few men with broken backs -Happened on his second tour -Nobody was killed on the first tour -All things considered, deployments were relatively safe in Afghanistan -Low casualty rate considering the number of men deployed to Afghanistan (00�:12:39) Contact with Civilians Pt. 1 -Not allowed to go off the base on his own -His unit patrolled 16 villages near FOB Frontenac -Seeing what the civilians needed -Trying to win the “hearts and minds” of the people -Civilians sided with whomever gave them better stuff -Trying to convince the Afghans that Americans were better benefactors than the Taliban (00:13:22) Contact with Home -Able to keep in touch with his family during his tours -Had a good internet connection at FOB Frontenac -Had a phone connection -There was a communication center on the base with phones and computers -Able to Skype with his family -Signed up for a communication plan that cost him 4¢ per minute (00:13:52) Food in Afghanistan -Food was good in Afghanistan -Rarely ate Meals Ready to Eat (MREs; similar to rations in World War II, Korea, Vietnam) -At them for a month after the Taliban attack at FOB Frontenac -Mess hall caught fire during the attack and burned to the ground (00:14:34) Personnel at FOB Frontenac Pt. 1 -800 to 1,000 American troops stationed at the base -400 to 500 civilians doing laundry, working in the mess hall, or doing mechanical work �(00:15:05) Working as an Operations Sergeant Pt. 1 -Stressful when you knew that lives were on the line -Mentally prepared himself for that reality -Not a lot of choice on what he was assigned to do in the Army -Took aptitude tests during training -Offered assignment in the Army based on test scores and need for type of personnel (00:16:00) End of Service Pt. 1 -Served in the Army National Guard for 17 and a half years -As of the interview he is now officially discharged from the National Guard -Discharged with the rank of E5 (sergeant) -Initially thought he would only serve six years in the National Guard then end his service (00:16:35) Work Routine in Afghanistan -Usually only had an hour off each day -Spent it by going to the gym at FOB Frontenac -Busy the rest of the day -Worked 12 hour days -When he wasn't working as the operations sergeant he worked with Afghan interpreters -Worked 254, 12 hour days, in a row -Soldiers that went on patrol had one day off per week to resupply and do maintenance work -Rest of the week, they went outside of the base for six or seven hour long patrols (00:18:10) Contact with Civilians Pt. 2 -Only went off the base once a month -Went with soldiers to nearby villages -Providing health and welfare -Handing out books and toys to civilians in the villages (00:18:42) Patrols -When he went off the base he traveled with a platoon -Minimum unit strength: four vehicles and 16 soldiers -More concerned about IEDs than direct enemy contact -16 mile radius around FOB Frontenac was the area of operations for his unit (00:19:41) Working as an Operations Sergeant Pt. 2 -Had a few men subordinate to him that worked with him in the command post (00:19:56) Enemy Contact in Afghanistan -Militants took potshots at vehicles, but to no effect -Average IED could destroy a tire, but not the entire vehicle -By 2012, vehicular armor could withstand the average IED blast -One IED was big enough that when it exploded it flipped over a vehicle -Only major IED his unit encountered -One soldier had to have both of his arms amputated (00:20:46) End of Tour -Always happy to know that he had reached the end of his tour -New unit moved in two weeks to a month before his unit left the base -Trained them and informed them of the situation in the region -He was sent to Kandahar Air Force Base 28 days before the rest of his unit left the base -He was no longer needed at the base (00:21:50) Personnel at FOB Frontenac Pt. 2 -There were a lot of American contractors in Afghanistan -American civilians working for corporations that had contracts with the government -Biggest threat to contractors was traveling outside of the base �(00:22:40) Reflections on Service Pt. 1 & the War in Afghanistan -Glad that he served and went on deployments -He would go again if he was ordered to, but he wouldn't volunteer for it -Thinks the United States will leave Afghanistan and be replaced by Chinese forces -Feels the U.S. could have done more to fight the war in Afghanistan -Believes that America needed to invade Afghanistan following the September 11th Attacks -Doesn't feel that Iraq got media attention than the Iraq War -During his second tour in Afghanistan (2012) the Iraq War was effectively over -Training at Camp Shelby, Mississippi when Osama bin Laden was killed (May 2, 2011) (00:25:37) End of Service Pt. 2 -Since he got discharged he has relaxed and gone on a few vacations -Discharged from the National Guard in April 2015 -Intends to work with veterans' organizations in the future (00:26:30) Reflections on Service Pt. 2 -Service and deployments made him a more worldly person -Introduced him to other worldviews -Feels that Americans, as a whole, need to be more aware of those different worldviews � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BieleckiT1845V Title A name given to the resource Bielecki, Thomas G (Interview outline and video), 2014 Description An account of the resource Tom Bilecki served in the Army National Guard in Afghanistan as part of Operation Enduring Freedom. He did two tours, one in 2004 and another in 2012. He was stationed at Forward Operation Base Frontenac 26 miles north of Kandahar. He served as an operations sergeant in the command post helping plan missions and call in air support for units in the field. Once a month he accompanied patrols to nearby villages and helped distribute books and toys to Afghan children and also got an idea of what the Afghan civilians needed in the way of aid or supplies. After 17 and a half years in the Army National Guard he retired with rank of sergeant. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bielecki, Thomas G. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Neering, Grant (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American United States. National Guard Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-10-19 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c996cff8027032a776dc72bf9d589ddf.mp4 232665d3ad075245087ba2d187d7c17b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f647ffe2bdecaab4615625d2a1f39daa.pdf 5efa80c3542162d225a0b6da769da3fb PDF Text Text Interview Notes Ronald Biermacher Korean War (16:14) Pre- Enlistment Born February 8, 1932 (0:15) Served in the Korean conflict (0:40) Achieved rank of Petty Officer, First Class (0:45) Born in Grand Rapids, Michigan (1:00) Father worked for a large store that delivered to the hospitals (1:50) Had 6 siblings (1:55) Was a barber until he enlisted in the Army (2:20) Also worked in several restaurants (2:40) Enlistment Was drafted into the Army, but knew a high ranking officer in the Navy (3:15) Was then able to be enlisted in the Navy instead of being inducted into the Army (3:45) Sent through an 11 week basic training that covered fire fighting, load ammunition, load on supplies, and brass polishing (4:45) Navy found out he was a barber, so they stuck him in the barber shop on the first weekend he was there (5:15) Did not get an orientation of the ship because of that (5:30) Had 4 weeks a year of leave (5:50) Was able to take it 2 weeks at a time (6:00) Took regular guard duties (6:15) Served on the USS Mississippi in Norfolk, VA (6:50) Took all the big guns off of it and installed missile launchers instead (7:30) Test fired missiles at drones every day (8:00) Did not lose any friends due to war, but knew people injured onboard the ship (8:40) Met many shipmates he still talks to today (9:15) Stayed in touch with family through telephone and letters (9:50) Ran into a few people he graduated with who were in the Navy (10:15) Drank a lot of liquor for entertainment (10:40) Also watched a movie every night, and would swim in the ocean sometimes (11:15) Post Enlistment Was still in Norfolk when the war ended (11:30) It was very easy to adjust to civilian life (12:00) Found a job in another barber shop until he had enough money to buy his own shop, which he ran for 47 years (12:15) Was very glad to get out of the service (13:00) Had to learn how to get along with many different kinds of people (13:10) �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BiermacherR Title A name given to the resource Biermacher, Ronald (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Biermacher, Ronald Description An account of the resource Ronald Biermacher served in the US Navy during the Korean conflict. He was stationed in Norfolk, Virginia aboard the USS Mississippi, where he was a barber. After the conflict was over, he returned to Grand Rapids, Michigan where he continued cutting hair until he retired. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Anderson, Brad R. (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-05-14 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/da0dae65d028c44cf8b48e6596186ffa.pdf d943c29ad572c127209b20280dd8759d PDF Text Text Annals of Psychology: Social Distancing for the Roaring 20’s Holly Bihlman | December 4, 2020 Social House Tavern in downtown Grand Rapids, Michigan, directly across the street from GR’s largest concert venue, sits on the corner of Monroe Ave and Fulton, bustling with drunk girls in heels draped in faux fur coats and boys desperately trying to get their numbers. The bouncers collect fake ID’s at the door and remind the party animals to keep their masks up on their face until seated at a table, or they will promptly be escorted (I use this term lightly) off the premises. The QR code for contact tracing implemented by Governor Gretchen Whitmer sits on a small stand-alone table by the door, prolonging the wait outside an extra three minutes for each guest to log their information into our system, and we do not have extra masks, so don’t forget yours in the Uber. I began working at the lively new bar, SOHO as we call it, a couple months ago coming off of a long quarantine and the unfamiliar threat of unemployment, desperately looking for a way to make rent. A friend of mine, Kendahl Overbeck, recommended the job to me and a few of our other friends, so now we run the place every Friday night. Kendahl’s regulars come in to see her consistently every weekend, and she smiles with her eyes since a big grin doesn’t get tips as well as it used to. As my first experience serving at a bar, sometimes I wonder why I chose the most dangerous time to be in such a highly populated bubble for ten hours every weekend, and then I wonder why all of us decided to do this. The truth is, in my experience, 20-something’s could care less about getting sick themselves because they’re invincible and will prioritize socializing over just about everything. It’s been done time and time again in movies and TV shows about �high schoolers and college students having unrealistically over-the-top experiences before they can legally drink. The culture of thrill-seeking is not an American trait though, it’s been proven scientifically that adolescents are in fact “Young, Dumb, and Broke” in the words of the famously free-spirited pop star, Khalid. Young adults are inherently risk-takers, and this has been wired into our brains through evolution, actually as a survival tactic, as ironic as that is at the moment. Kendahl, having recently become of legal drinking age, had an experience similar to mine at the beginning of the pandemic panic, losing her serving job of three years to the first hit on the economy. “My old job basically went bankrupt because of this pandemic, so I work at a bar now because it’s the easiest money I’ve ever made.” Coming home with upwards of $400 a night, cashing in a grand in one weekend sometimes, is what I would consider the easiest money I’ve ever made myself. But that’s not all; “It’s so fun; I do it on weekend nights and I don’t even have to go out because I go out when I’m working, and it’s incredible.” Sacrificing weekends of fun to be at work is no longer in our vocabulary, because the most fun I could be having is probably right there at work on our Fridays. Aside from the win-win situation we seem to have found ourselves in, just because the bar is opened back up doesn’t mean the virus disappeared over night; in fact, it’s actually skyrocketing again as we enter the annual sick-day season. Millennials and Gen Zs have contributed to the most COVID cases to date, and on the surface, it may seem that reckless partying and the infamous spring breakers of 2020 are the sole reason for this upward slope. On the contrary, several factors have contributed to the increase in younger COVID-positive cases, including older people staying in more as well as increased testing nationwide. Big cities with largely young populations have seen a spike in cases because of the availability of bars and social gathering hotspots, like Seattle. The New York Times published a report in June on the “disturbing” amount of cases appearing: “In King County, Wash., people in their 20s and 30s make up about 45 percent of new Coronavirus cases— a �number that was 25 percent in March.” Spring break hot spots like Dallas have also seen these same spikes, reporting ages 18-40 now make up 52 percent of new cases as opposed to the 38 percent reported for this age bracket in March. California law enforcement has taken a beating trying to deflect massive house parties in the hills, causing government officials to take extensive action against the unstoppable force of the underdeveloped frontal cortexes. The LA Times covered a press conference from Mayor Eric Garcetti in August, clearly fed up with these disturbances; “Wednesday night [Garcetti] authorized shutting off water and electricity service to homes that had repeatedly hosted large parties in defiance of the ban on gatherings.” These “nightclubs in the hills” have replaced the socially restrictive bars and clubs that young adults occupied on the weekends, causing more asymptomatic spreading than we’ve seen yet. To add some clarity to the situation, humans have always been naturally party animals. Neuroscientists and psychologists have been studying what makes humans such social beings in comparison to our close relatives, chimpanzees, since Darwin’s theory of evolution and natural selection. There are lots of scientific explanations for our social differences from any other species on Earth, and it isn’t because of our massive brain size. It actually comes down to one specific part of the brain that continues to develop through our 20’s, leaving young adults more prone to irrational decision making. A psychologist from North Carolina explained this gap in judgement in an interview with Business Insider framing the 20-something’s for being behind the Coronavirus’ unstoppable force: “Much of the brain's restructuring during this time occurs in the frontal cortex… During this development… young people rely more on their amygdala, the fight or flight part of the brain, for decision-making.” Because of this underdeveloped, crucial part of the human brain, adolescents are more selfish when they make decisions, too. This is why the younger populations have been taking the brunt of the blame for the consistent and more threatening spread of the disease now that winter is approaching. �There is an alternate explanation for these correlating statistics though— Rebbecca Renner published an article in September for National Geographic reporting on the number of COVIDpositive cases young generations have been causing, not due to their partying, but due to the essential workforce. If you think about this, judgement aside, what we have mutually agreed upon as a country is that the most able-bodied people right now are young adults, and the fact of the matter is, we need a running economy. The stimulus check sent out to people making a certain amount of income did not cover students that filed as dependents on their taxes— AKA— most young adults either still in college or still looking for a steady job. Therefore, in order to maintain an able America, people need the essential workers to keep businesses open and the younger generations need employment. Kendahl and I know this feeling all too well after losing our jobs to bankruptcy earlier in the year; “Because we’re a small business and I have bills to pay, I can’t wait for them [SOHO] to open because I need an income. I have rent and groceries and clothes.” Us able-bodied citizens of America are working right now because we have to, so the risk we’re taking is not exactly as optional as it may seem. The ongoing divergence between the hourly rates in states across America and the cost of housing is continually putting college students and young adults in this impossible situation. Even when not in the midst of a pandemic, Millennials were already crying out for some help to pay their bills at age 25. Renner’s hot take on the matter offers this alternate perspective on the rampant rise in positive cases; “So while younger generations are being blamed, in some quarters, for the pandemic’s spread, they are bearing the greatest burden of poverty and the brunt of the transmission risk that comes with keeping the economy going, all with little help in sight.” Although the partying and socialization are putting lives at risk, the opposite side of the coin shows a much more sympathetic approach to the blame Millennial’s and Gen Z’s have taken this year. College students and recent college grads work at coffee shops, restaurants, bars, retail stores and other minimum wage jobs if they aren’t already working in their field, and when �thousands of these establishments had to close, us already struggling college students had to scramble to make up for lost stimulus money. Kendahl makes the incredibly overlooked point, “I hate working for an hourly rate because it’s not a lot of money. I would have to work so much and all the time to pay my bills every month, versus working two days a week at SOHO. I also have savings, but I’m going to med school and I want to study abroad.” The overarching problem here is not the irresponsible distribution of priorities on our end, it is the inflation we’re battling that prevents us from the success we seek after graduation. “This scarcity [of jobs] places younger adults in a lose-lose situation: If they can find employment, many feel compelled to take it even if it means putting themselves at risk,” said Renner. Now, somehow it seems Kendahl and I might find ourselves in a lose-lose situation, contemplating if the risk of the virus is worth the reward. Inevitably it seems, this past November I got the dreaded call back from the doctor’s office after convincing myself for the previous 48 hours that I was, of course, negative. “So, unfortunately your test did come back positive.” Words that you may not think would scare you until you hear them yourself. I was one of the lucky “invincible” ones; though, COVID has been known to do unsuspecting damage on people in my age bracket regardless of well-kept health. I gave the virus to my friend and coworker, Abby Ditmar, to which she later commented at the bar once we were both healthy saying, “Last time I gave you a hug I got COVID, but I think you’re good now.” The humiliating and ostracizing experience forced me to take a different perspective; making sure I was more aware of who I could’ve spread it to became the most guilt-inducing anxiety I had ever experienced. Abby and I both survived the dreaded disease; however, there’s something to be said for the loneliness and mental exhaustion in the isolating experience. The interesting situation we found ourselves in here was that neither of us took into consideration where we might’ve gotten the virus, we just assumed the bar was the culprit. What we had not �considered was that Abby may have gotten it from her second job at our local grocery store and given it to me; leaving Meijer as another possible suspect. Who’s to say that we contracted the virus from the bar, each other, or a grocery store? We certainly didn’t get it partying with friends, and our masks are up at all times while working, unlike our seated customers. The possibility that the vast majority of these rising percentages and statistics proving the 20-something’s of America are causing the COVID spikes nationwide, could be coming from the essential businesses we so desperately want open. Although we may look to psychology for answers in defense of our young friends at the bars, maybe we should be looking more towards the risk our essential workforce is taking in order to keep our landlords happy. The risk has always been taking on higher rent payments and more monthly bills for Millennials, and it’s soon to be Generation Z’s. Adding a pandemic onto the pressure of working at Meijer or a downtown bar to get through the month’s bills after already having been laid off before the age of 21 doesn’t have much to do with partying, it has to do with our ability to work and our willingness to take risks. So why did I decide to work at a bar during a pandemic? I’m willing to take the risk so someone else doesn’t have to. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource COVID-19 Journals Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. University Libraries Description An account of the resource This collection of journals and personal narratives was solicited from the GVSU community by archivists of the University Libraries during the events of the 2020 COVID-19 global pandemic. During this unprecedented crisis the university closed suddenly, following federal and state guidelines of social distancing to reduce the spread of the novel coronavirus. The university closed its campuses on March 12, 2020, and quickly moved students out of campus housing. Faculty swiftly transitioned to fully-online teaching for the remainder of the Winter 2020 semester, and all campus events, including commencement, were cancelled. The purpose of the COVID-19 Journaling Project was to document the individual and personal experiences of GVSU’s students, staff, faculty, and the wider community during this time of international crisis. Some project participants were university student employees who were compensated for their journaling. Other participants were granted stipends or extra credit for submitting entries to the archives. Still others participated without any compensation or credit. The University Archives remains grateful to all who submitted journals, for helping us to understand the impact of this crisis on our community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2020 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Subject The topic of the resource Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context COVID-19_2021-01-25_BihlmanHolly Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bihlman, Holly Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-01-25 Title A name given to the resource Social Distancing for the Roaring 20's Description An account of the resource GVSU student Holly Bihlman used this piece in her Intermediate Magazine Writing class, mimicking a New Yorker style "Annals of" piece. It pertains to how 20 year olds have had to be the backbone of the essential workforce, but are taking the brunt of the blame for COVID's spread through partying. My take comes from working at a bar downtown and actually getting a positive test result back in November. Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 pandemic, 2019-2020 Epidemics Grand Valley State University College students Personal narratives Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived University Archives. COVID-19 Journaling Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0d36f49b5335dc44c344e1ce201a90b6.m4v 6292e03c6da1b370e4862f15499b91a6 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7e8b352bf99a8fce3032fb60e20abcef.pdf 70537fbdaa5087d9f1f10b6f6ba3484e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Thornell Billingslea Vietnam War 1 hour 14 minutes 45 seconds (00:00:40) Early Life -Born in Detroit, Michigan, on June 29, 1947 -Grew up in Detroit -Father was a career soldier -Raised by his mother and great-grandmother -His mother worked in the school system then in the state hospital system -They were poor and lived on the East Side of Detroit -Attended John J. Pershing High School -Father was a sergeant major in the Army -Sent money home -Had a younger brother -Parents got divorced shortly after the birth of his younger brother -Graduated from high school in 1965 -Worked for Chrysler for nine months and got fired -Worked for TRW Incorporated in Warren, Michigan (00:02:45) Getting Drafted & Awareness of Vietnam War -Received his draft notice in 1966 -Didn’t know a lot about the Vietnam War -Saw it on the evening news -Aware of fighting in Vietnam -Took his draft physical when he turned 18 years old -His eight paternal uncles and his four maternal uncles served in the military -He expected to serve regardless of the draft (00:03:50) Basic Training -Reported to Fort Wayne, Michigan, to be sent to Fort Knox, Kentucky for basic training -The drill sergeants asserted their dominance and intended on making soldiers out of the recruits -Thornell expected this after talking to his uncles -First few days of basic training spent on testing and processing -Did calisthenics every morning before breakfast -Received rifle training -Got some Jungle Training -Did hand-hand training -Went on long marches -Marched up “Suicide Hill” with a full backpack -Strong emphasis on discipline -Remembers standing in formation, at attention, when a bee stung him and he didn’t move -Drill sergeants taught him a lot -Emphasized that discipline and hard work in basic training meant survival -He adjusted easily to Army life -Lifelong athlete made physical training easy, and he understood the discipline aspect �-Some of the men had difficulty adjusting -In the fourth or fifth week one man swallowed aluminum foil on purpose and got discharged -He was drafted with some of his friends and was able to train with them too -Basic training lasted eight weeks (00:09:15) Advanced Infantry Training -He volunteered to be a paratrooper meaning he would receive Infantry Training before Jump School -In Advanced Infantry Training (AIT) he received Infantry Training and more Jungle Training -Sent to Fort Gordon, Georgia for AIT because it was closer to Fort Benning than Fort Polk, Louisiana -Focused on infantry tactics and how to survive behind enemy lines -Received more training with the M-16 rifle -Went on an overnight maneuver -Sent into the wilderness and told to get back to base -Trained with a full range of infantry weapons -M79 grenade launcher, M60 machine gun, M72 LAW (antitank weapon), rifle-mounted grenade launcher, and the .50 caliber machine gun -Simulated conditions in Vietnam -Had a mock village for patrol training -A couple of the sergeants had been to Vietnam -Advised the men to keep their feet dry and powdered to avoid infection -Avoid the villages and the women -Watch out for booby traps -Received booby trap training -Close, but not the same as the real thing -Visited Augusta, Georgia, twice during his time at Fort Gordon -Noticed the racism and discrimination -Certain hotels refused him, and other black soldiers, service -Got robbed while in a hotel -Called the police and they were no help -On the way back to base a black soldier got into a fight with a few white men -Wondered why he should serve a country with citizens that hated him -Stayed at Fort Gordon for six weeks (00:16:55) Airborne Training -Sent to Fort Benning, Georgia, for Jump School (Airborne Training) -Ran five miles in the morning and did calisthenics then got breakfast -Received parachute training -How to land without injuring himself -Jumped from a training tower -Part of the intense physical training was to ready the body for landing after a jump -Also preparing to do a lot of walking and running -Only three men dropped out -One man broke his leg -Started with jumping off a stool and landing with a tuck and roll -Moved onto going down a zip line from a tower -Did this every day for the first three weeks -In the fourth week he did training jumps from a plane -Had to do three successful jumps to get his Airborne wings -First jump was phenomenal and exciting, but subsequent jumps were scarier (00:20:13) Deployment to Vietnam -Sent to Fort Campbell for two weeks �-Received orders for the 173rd Airborne Brigade -Missed the 173rd’s combat jump in Vietnam (Operation Junction City) -Went home on leave -Visited TRW because most of the workers were veterans -Accepted well by his community -Proud of his accomplishments in the Army -Sent to Fort Dix, New Jersey, and flew to San Francisco -Boarded another plane in San Francisco and flew to Vietnam -Stopped at Hawaii and Okinawa en route (00:22:12) Arrival in Vietnam -Landed at Tan Son Nhut Airbase in the morning -First impression of the country was that it was hot, and surprisingly peaceful -Received a brief orientation upon arrival -What to do, what not to do, and stay away from the women (00:23:08) Joining the 173rd Airborne Brigade -Assigned to Alpha Company of the 2nd Battalion of the 173rd Airborne Brigade -Operating out of Bien Hoa at the time -When he arrived at the base nobody was there except for support personnel -Rest of the unit was in the field -Assigned to a hut -He was by himself on his first night in country -Remembers halfway through the night something trying to get up on his bunk -He swatted at it and it yelped -Relieved to discover that it was a puppy -The unit returned and he was assigned to 1st platoon in Alpha Company -He met with the men in his unit -Despite being the “new guy” he made friends quickly -Diverse mix of races -About 60 percent black, 20 percent Hispanic, and 20 percent white (00:26:38) First Patrol -Went out in helicopters to get into the field -Started taking sniper fire before hitting the landing zone -Reached the landing zone and jumped out of the helicopter -10 to 12 foot jump from the helicopter -Hit the ground running -Advancing toward the snipers and returning fire -Killed one of them and the other two retreated -Walked away from the landing zone and got to a place to make camp -Dug foxholes, ate C-Rations, and took turns standing watch -On this patrol Alpha Company moved as a company; not platoons or squads -Operated in a mix of jungle, fields, and rice paddies -Never walked on trails, and instead made their own trails -Walked in a ten yard spread -The other men knew how to operate in the field -A Native American soldier took care of Thornell and taught him how to survive -This same soldier could smell Viet Cong soldiers and knew where they had been -It was a quiet patrol -Encountered another sniper, but he retreated -Went on this first patrol in March 1967 �(00:31:05) Moving to Pleiku -Stayed at Bien Hoa until May 1967 -Went to Taipei, Taiwan, for R&R -Unit moved to Pleiku shortly before his R&R -Stayed there for three weeks and experienced the monsoon (00:31:54) Enemy Contact – Bien Hoa -Always had light enemy contact around Bien Hoa -Encountered Viet Cong troops and never North Vietnamese Army troops -Usually ran into individual snipers or squads of Viet Cong troops -Captured one Viet Cong soldier and sent him back to base for interrogation -Unit didn’t take any casualties while operating out of Bien Hoa (00:33:00) Operating out of Bien Hoa -Patrols lasted two to three weeks -After patrols they returned to base and went to a bar in Bien Hoa -Never saw any civilians on patrols -Didn’t go through villages or farms (00:34:04) Operating out of Pleiku -General Westmoreland wanted to focus efforts on Pleiku -This prompted the 173rd’s move to Pleiku -Traveled to Pleiku by way of convoy -Passed through the Ia Drang Valley and heard “Hanoi Hannah” on the radio -Operated out of Pleiku for two or three weeks -Had a small base at Pleiku -Went on small patrols -Remembers a firefight wherein a few American soldiers got wounded -First time seeing wounded American troops -Had orders to wait for the enemy to shoot first, but they tended to ignore that order for survival (00:36:41) Operating out of Dak To -Moved to Dak To in early June 1967 -Started encountering heavier resistance than before -More concentrated fire and organized attacks -Found enemy tunnels, bases, and other signs of human activity -Operated as a fully company -About 125 to 130 men in the field during patrols -Dak To was a small base in the Central Highlands and it had an airfield -Allowed them to fly out to the field and go on patrols (00:39:05) The Battle of the Slopes (Hill 1338) -On the third patrol out of Dak To they fought the Battle of the Slopes on June 22, 1967 -On June 21 they found a tunnel system and set up camp near the complex -The next day, Thornell and a few other men stayed behind to gas the tunnels -The rest of Alpha Company moved on -Rejoined his platoon in the midst of an intense firefight -When Thornell reached his platoon a quarter of the men were either hit, or killed -The jungle was too thick for an outflanking maneuver -Alpha was spread out and pinned -Later found out that it was Alpha Company against a battalion of North Vietnamese troops -North Vietnamese attacked in waves -He lost his radio and was the only man not wounded or dead -Thornell tended to the wounded while returning fire �-Attack helicopters and jets came to try and hit the North Vietnamese positions -Limited visibility and proximity of the enemy troops made airstrikes impossible -Thornell went to the main body of Alpha Company to inform them of his platoon’s position -He returned to his platoon and tended to his lieutenant and medic -Lieutenant had a severe head wound and medic had been disemboweled -It started to get dark, so Thornell decided to go to Alpha and see if they could get evacuated -On the path he encountered three North Vietnamese soldiers -He shot and killed one, -Used his knife to kill another, -Killed the third with his bare hands -Realized that Alpha Company had left the area -Began walking back toward the base at Dak To -Took him three days to get from Hill 1338 to Dak To -Only had one meal and limited water -Lived off of grubs and vegetation -Whenever he saw Vietnamese troops he took cover and let them pass -Reached the perimeter of the base -Guard on watch recognized him and helped guide him through the minefield -Lieutenant and medic died from their wounds -Note: 76 men of Alpha Company had been killed and 23 men wounded -Most of the men had died from the wounds -Survivors also said the North Vietnamese executed some of the wounded (00:48:33) Recovering from the Battle of the Slopes -Had to get reinforcements to rebuild Alpha Company -He helped identify the dead -Identified the body of his friend, Eddy -Went out on another night patrol on June 28 -Hadn’t gotten much sleep, so he fell asleep on watch -Punished with having to dig an 8’ x 8’ x 8’ hole -General Westmoreland came to the base at Dak To -Thornell was called to go before the general -Awarded the Bronze Star for his actions at Hill 1338 -Got some sergeants from other companies to rebuild Alpha Company -Majority of reinforcements came fresh from the United States (00:52:53) Officers in Alpha Company -Got a new lieutenant that graduated from West Point -He was book smart, but lacked experience -Most West Point graduates were over ambitious and cared more about commendations -Some of the men wanted to “frag” (assassinate) the executive officer (XO) of Alpha Company -Felt he was incompetent and prejudiced -Thornell’s friend, Eddy, had been a typist and company clerk -Good position since he was married and it was safer -The XO found another typist, a white man, and replaced Eddy -Got Eddy sent to the field and ultimately killed at Hill 1338 (00:54:55) Battle of Dak To & Getting Wounded -The Battle of Dak To became an extended campaign -Went out on a patrol on July 9 -Hit the landing zone and immediately took sniper fire -Captain called in artillery to neutralize the snipers �-One of the artillery rounds fell short -Severely wounded Thornell and nine other men -He had been wounded before, but this time he almost lost his arm -Given morphine and got evacuated to a Mobile Army Surgical Hospital (MASH) -Woke up two days later and told to write a letter home (00:58:19) Recovery & Coming Home -Evacuated to the Philippines for more surgery -Sent to Japan and stayed there for a month -Almost had his arm amputated -A colonel stepped in and did the surgery, saving Thornell’s arm -Flown to Alaska then Andrews Air Force Base, Maryland -Bused Valley Forge General Hospital, Pennsylvania -Nine months of rehabilitation -Went to the gym every day and played basketball -Visited New York City and Philadelphia -Went home on leave after a month at the hospital -Went to the Philadelphia airport -Protester spit on him and he got into a fight with the protester -Police broke up the fight and backed Thornell -Family welcomed him home and called him a hero -Brother got sent to Vietnam since Thornell was home (01:03:10) End of Service -Sent to Fort Knox for the rest of his enlistment -Didn’t make sense to him since he had a medical profile -Couldn’t handle a weapon or lift more than ten pounds -Got to Fort Knox about one week after the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. -Troops had been deployed out of Fort Knox to deal with riots in the cities -He stayed in the day room and played music to pass the time -Majority of black soldiers and even some white soldiers didn’t want to go to the cities -Discharged in August 1968 -Army encouraged him to leave (01:05:41) Life after the War -Got married in September 1968 -Went back to work for TRW -Stayed until 1986 -Went to Wayne State University on the GI Bill and studied social work -Wanted to do more work with his hands, though -Got a scholarship with BASF to become an electrician for the company -Ultimately moved to Kentwood, Michigan and lives there as of the interview (01:08:05) Reflections on Service -Gave him a lot of discipline and the ambition to complete his goals -His service also left him with PTSD and severe injuries -Has chronic pain in his arm and had to have 13 surgeries (01:09:25) Coping with PTSD -Had two sons, a wife, work, school, and his own small business -Overworked to avoid his PTSD -If he stayed busy he couldn’t focus on the bad memories -Played basketball and drank a lot to avoid the memories -Started getting treatment for his PTSD in 2005 �-Had retired in 2002 which gave him more time to focus on his experiences in Vietnam -Started seeing a psychologist and going to group therapy -Works with other veterans to help them with their PTSD -Runs a veteran group on Tuesday nights -Does peer-to-peer counseling as an independent therapist -Is working with an Afghan War veteran as of the interview � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BillingsleaT1929V Title A name given to the resource Billingslea, Thornell (Interview outline and video), 2016 Description An account of the resource Thornell Billingslea was born in Detroit, Michigan, on June 29, 1947. In 1966 he was drafted and received his basic training at Fort Knox, Kentucky. He volunteered to be a paratrooper and received his Advanced Infantry Training at Fort Gordon, Georgia, and his Airborne Training at Fort Benning, Georgia. He went home on a short leave before being deployed to Vietnam. Thornell landed at Tan Son Nhut Airbase and was assigned to Alpha Company of the 2nd Battalion of the 173rd Airborne Brigade. He joined his unit at Bien Hoa and was assigned to 1st platoon. He went on patrols out of Bien Hoa, Pleiku, and Dak To. While at Dak To he fought in the Battle of the Slopes (Hill 1338) and after getting separated from his unit walked for three days to get back to Dak To. Thornell was awarded the Bronze Star for his actions at Hill 1338. He was wounded on a patrol on July 9, 1967, and after recovering was stationed at Fort Knox, Kentucky until he was discharged in August 1968. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Billingslea, Thornell Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-03-03 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/aa37dd1a51956687017c4e7498ad0a54.mp4 cc540ff1dba92500cd66c5298a06a8bd https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/70148c7bde60817b17a403a975d1261a.pdf 22426a7e2e4fdaa16971491f33ba5379 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Iraqi War Jeremy Binder Length of Interview 1:55:38 0:00:11 Background • Born: October 30, 1978, in Benton Harbor, Michigan (0:00:15) • Moved to Bridgman, Michigan in 1989 (0:00:30) • Father worked at die cast shop, Mother worked as dental hygienist assistant (0:00:45) • Graduated high school with acting scholarship to local Community College (0:01:10) • Dropped out of college after first year to work (0:01:40) • Held various jobs before joining Marines (0:02:00) 0:07:20 Enlistment • Joined when he heard about young soldiers dying in Iraq (0:06:00) • Felt he could be a good leader to the young soldiers (0:06:31) • Enlisted June 17, 2003 at age 22 (0:07:04) • Went to Marine Corp Recruitment Center (MCRD) in San Diego, California (0:07:15) • Wanted to be demolition expert due to electrician background (0:08:30) • Put in infantry training Platoon 1006, Charlie Company (0:11.10) 0:13:00 Training • There for 13 weeks with 3 phases of basic training (0:13:45) • 1st phase tested mental toughness, taught discipline, got yelled at (0:14:25) • 2nd phase more physical workouts, hikes, night operations (0:18:20) • 3rd phase graduation, learned parade marches (0:18:50) • After basic training, shipped to Camp Pendleton, California (0:22:00) • Learned how to use more heavy weaponry (0:22:30) • Bit by a brown recluse spider and against doctor order completed 20 mile hike (0:23:27) • Assigned military enlisted job (MOS) to be demolition engineer (0:27:20) 0:30:00 Demolition Training • Assigned to 2nd Battalion 7th Marines, which was scheduled for deployment to Iraq (0:30:16) • Shipped to 29 Palms, California, for specialized training (0:31:06) • Desert environment prepared them for Iraq (0:31:20) • Most time was spent cleaning weapons (0:32:16) • Kept updated on events in Middle East (0:33:30) • One of original squads to protect battalion commander (0:35:56) • Weapons company used .50 caliber machine gun, grenades, and demolition equipment (0:36:20) • Feb 3, 2004 shipped to Iraq (0:39:00) �0:40:00 Active Duty • Took Delta jet to Prague, Prague to Kuwait, then to Iraq (0:39:15) • Drove to Al-Assad Air Force Base (0:43:32) • #1 concern is keeping Battalion commander alive (0:47:00) • Drove around a lot, change routine every time (0:45:44) • On the move all the time, hardly any downtime (0:46:30) • Enemy very clever, always new strategies (0:51:40) • Saw a lot of civilians, mostly stayed away from Americans (0:59:00) 0:48:00 Notable Events • Rear driver on convoy down Military Server Road(MSR) (0:48:07) • Night operation convoy on black out (no lights) (0:48:20) • Saw explosion in rear view mirror, pull over and ready for combat (0:48:37) • IED explosion that had missed mark due to blackout (0:50:14) • Enemy use firefight to keep you in position until RPGs and mortars come (1:09:39) • After a while firefights stopped and only IEDs were used (1:09:50) • Enemy was mostly farmers or locals who were blackmailed/bribed (1:10:24) 1:12:00 Injury • May 1, 2004 around 6am (1:12:25) • Local police colonel was informing insurgents of vehicle routes (1:12:40) • Mission to detain police colonel and appoint a new one (1:12:50) • Battalion commander and interpreter went inside to talk to colonel (1:13:30) • Incoming sniper fire caused unit to take cover (1:13:48) • About 30 min later explosion from behind (1:14:20) • Tried to raise weapons, but couldn’t move right arm (1:15:30) • Didn’t know he was wounded, comrade told him he was bleeding (1:16:07) • Hit by debris, Chunk of arm was missing, brachial artery was severed (1:18:50) • Felt dehydrated, arm felt on fire (1:20:00) • Comrade made tunicate out of sleeve, still wanted to fight (1:21:39) 1:22:00 Recovery • Sent to hospital at Al-Assad AFB (1:22:35) • Felt weak like he was ready to pass out (1:24:30) • Had to graft nerves and skin from leg to arm (1:25:50) • Sent to Baghdad hospital for 24 hours (1:26:50) • From Baghdad flown to hospital in Germany for 3 days (1:29:39) • While recovering in Germany met Arnold Schwarzenegger and Charlie Daniels (1:29:45) • Flew to California, wound was left open to heal itself (1:31:50) • Nerves never recovered fully, arm looks like turkey skin (1:32:00) • Lost 14cm of median nerve, 14.5 cm of ulnar nerve, 13.5cm of brachial artery (1:33:00) �1:36:00 Post service • Debilitating injury left him unfit to be a Marine (1:36:15) • Went back to school to earn college degree (1:41:25) • Marine Corps mentality stuck with him throughout life (1:41:47) • Associates degree in communication from Lake Michigan Community College (1:42:20) • Majored in Public Administration at Grand Valley State University (1:42:26) • Wanted to be a veterans service counselor, and now does this in Allegan County, Michigan (1:42:54) • Help veterans deal with demons and talk about their experiences (1:43:09) • Has the pair of boots he was wearing with blood stains on them(1:55:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BinderJ1384V Title A name given to the resource Binder, Jeremy (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Binder, Jeremy Description An account of the resource Jeremy Binder was born in Benton Harbon, Michigan in 1978, and grew up in the area. After high school, he tried college briefly and then held various jobs before enlisted in the Marine Corps in 2003. After training in San Diego and Camp Pendleton, California, he joined the 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines and took demolitions training with them at 29 Palms, California, while awaiting transfer to Iraq. They flew to Iraq in February, 2004, and he served as part of the squad that guarded the battalion commander. He was wounded in May, and was injured badly enough that he could not return to active duty. He now works as a counselor for veterans. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Marine Corps Iraq War, 2003--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-05-22 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/de2b660352e5037db0dafaf86a58d40d.mp4 b2f17065cbef332f8f70648daabd8299 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/79b9c08b8c380db250d0d17a76a2645c.pdf 21a285522a55c52bed4dd5a0066d73c6 PDF Text Text Living With PFAS Interviewee: AJ Birkbeck Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: May 19, 2021 DD: I’m Dani DeVasto and today, May 19th 2021, I have the pleasure of chatting with AJ Birkbeck. Thank you so much for being with us today AJ. Can you tell me about where you’re from and where you currently live? AJ: Well I grew up in Grand Rapids, Michigan and went to school in Ann Arbor and after that moved to Chicago where I worked for many years as an environmental attorney. DD: And are you still based in Chicago right now? AJ: I do maintain an office in the Chicago-land area, and I’m still licensed in Illinois but I’ve been focusing pretty much exclusively on Michigan of late, so that’s my focus and especially when it comes to PFAS. DD: Alright, can you tell me how long you’ve been here? AJ: Well, I spent all but 17 years of my life, so over 50 years I’ve been in Michigan. DD: Okay. So AJ, could you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS in your community? AJ: The main story is just unfortunately the lack of information that’s available to everyone. You know, critically, lawmakers don’t have accurate information, and many times they’re being informed by the chemical industry exclusively, not necessarily by science. As science is coming online, not only in Michigan but across the country and around the world, it’s becoming evident that this problem is a lot bigger than people thought, because these chemicals are everywhere. So, the story is: how can we get information out to people and how can we inform people of risks related to PFAS, and that’s what we did when we discovered the wolverine contamination in Rockford, MI, which is one of the most contaminated locations in the US. Even worldwide, people have heard of it. DD: Do you want to say anything more about your efforts to help get out information to people? Especially kind of surrounding the Wolverine West Michigan area? �AJ: Right. Well as a group of citizens, to say resources are limited is kind of an understatement. It’s something that people in the neighborhood do in their spare time and there was a lot of footwork done, a lot of discovery. It’s when we clearly determined there had been releases of PFAS in and around Rockford that needed to be addressed. The next big step was informing the regulatory community because still to this day, these chemicals are not effectively regulated at the federal level, which is just incredible. But in Michigan, fortunately they moved very quickly in legal moves with regulation that happened to be exactly timed with pleadings that came down and legal actions between the state and federal government and wolverine. So it all was a simultaneous recognition that something needed to be done. The regulations were passed and wolverine agreed to step up to the plate and really move forward with a lot of what’s been happening out at that site right now. DD: Can you tell me a little bit more about your role in this process? AJ: Well, I’ve spent my entire career out at locations working in communities on large contaminations. The biggest client for many years was actually an instrumentality of the federal district court in San Francisco with the Northern district of California. We worked directly for the court working on cleanups that were driven by community concerns. I had experience in doing things like that, and I received a call one day from a small community group, that’s the CCRR, and they needed legal advice as to what they could do with respect to the tannerring. I heard about some of the things that were going on, and I tried to reach out to city government at the time, but they really weren’t interested in finding out what was going on, or in any investigation. For the first time in my life, I met active resistance from a unit of government. I worked in my day-job for decades with municipal leaders in a very constructive way, and here, the door was slamming in my face. So I agreed to work with the CCRR in bringing action in Belmont and Rockford, and that effort so far has resulted in, my guess, and wolverine hasn’t disclosed any costs, but at least $125,000,000 in response costs. So, it has resulted in what I think is a significant improvement, not only to the environment, but in human health, which is most important. It’s unfortunate that the exposures were there as long as they were there, but I think, you know, as a result of literally, concerned neighbors saying something isn’t right here and digging deeper, and deeper, and deeper, we have prevented all those folks from Belmont from drinking what was the most contaminated drinking water I would argue in the nation. I think there was a couple of commercial wells that were tested at slightly higher levels. But I mean this is one of the most PFAS impacted sites that there is. The fact that people were sitting there drinking this water everyday, you can't taste it, smell it, or see it, it was just insidious. The fact that we cut that off by who knows how many years, 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, any day is too long to continue drinking what those residents were forced to drink. As we got more and more into it, I got more and more passionate about communities really needing help. What was going on in Rockford was the impotence for the founding of the PFAS alliance, which is- the motto is “From Communities, For Communities”. Taking everything we’ve learned in an area with very �little guidance as to what you should do as an impacted citizen, if it’s just finding out that you’ve been drinking PFAS for 25 years, you know, that's a scary prospect. There’s a lot more resources now than there were, but at the state level they’re really stretched. We need a lot more focused [?], which means a lot more resources, which means a legislature that’s willing to vote those resources into place in order to deal with this problem which is just getting bigger. I mean literally, go online to MPART and every week its 2 or 3 new sites. We had a big jump with, I think over 50 sites when the regulations finally came in. It’s so many communities being impacted and each one is related but in a unique way. So, how do you address that? It’s a huge problem which comes all the way back around to: I see this as a communication issue. A need to get information to the people who need it most, especially people living in impacted communities. DD: Do you want to say anything more about the PFAS alliance and either how that came to be or any of the work the PFAS alliance is doing right now? AJ: Some communities like to keep what’s going on behind a wrap, so if there’s a community that wants to remain confidential, we honor that request. We’ve reached out to a number of communities. Unfortunately, we are strictly an all-volunteer organization. We’ve received just a couple of very small grants, and on top of that it’s all volunteer work. So we have a dedicated group of directors and other folks that are members and work with us to really reach out, indepth, to communities. One of the communities we’ve recently worked with was down by Gerald Ford International Airport. There were, I believe, 247 households there with impacted wells, and we are working to ensure that they get hookups to the city of Grand Rapids water, which is very clean in respect to PFAS. So it’s the kind of thing that, as a community, they can’t do those things themselves, they don’t have the expertise and scientific help like we’ve gotten from GVSU with Dr. Richard Redinski, and with my experience with working with environmental laws with big cleanups in communities. Whenever we see success, like we’ve seen in several of the communities, it only makes us want to work harder and try to get the word out to more and more communities. Right now, we are just limited by assets. We do not have, you know, the grants behind us to really make things work as we’d like to. Because if we could expand and get out into 10s of communities, instead of just a handful of communities, which is all we can do at one time now. There’s 160 communities waiting for help across Michigan right now. DD: Wow. Before, I know you’ve mentioned that you’ve been involved for a long time with large community cleanups. But before you got involved with this, were you doing work with PFAS? Or is this a new contaminant that you encountered with CCRR? AJ: You know, it’s interesting. I used to go every year to these events that were hosted by the state of Michigan, DEQ at the time. You would sit around the lunch table with people that you mostly don’t know, and I happened to sit down next to a gentleman named Bob Delaney. Bob �Delaney is truly the biggest hero we have with the PFAS movement. He identified this stuff at one of his sites where he was project manager. He was researching into it and the more he found, the more terrible it became. He tried to elevate that within the state to an issue that should be addressed immediately. He even came up with a plan on how to address it, and unfortunately, it was placed in the circular file by those who made decisions, and there was no action taken. It turns out that literally 10 years later, actually it became more like seven years later, it became the template of how Michigan has handled this. So, you have a man that seven years beforehand was screaming, “something needs to be done about this”, I happened to sit next to at lunch. He started to explain this [?] and asked “have you heard of it?”, and you know, I hadn’t. I stay on top of these things, but the industry had done a very good job of making this appear to be a miracle group of chemicals, and it was like this isn't great? Science at work. “Oh so we have some evidence that it does some really bad things but we’ll just keep that quiet because this is extremely profitable and we don't really have proof.” That's basically what they ended up standing behind for nearly 50 years: We don't have proof that it's bad. The fact that there’s so many of these, 5,00 on a recent international science call. I meet every month with this group of PFAS scientists from around the world, but there has now been 9,000 categorized of them, and we know the health effects of approximately 2, maybe 3. The information we have, even there, is limited. So, this group of chemicals is out there and I think it’s something that ultimately, I became active in the environmental side of things as a geologist and in the light of when it happened with the love canal. That opened a lot of people’s eyes and I think when PFAS hits the mainstream media, there’s going to be a lot of eyes that are opened, as far as, “wow, I had no idea something this toxic was this close to my life every day”. They’re talking about going into camping stores where they have rack after rack of waterproof parkas and there could be a serious inhalation risk associated with that. Who would have had any idea? Dental floss, you know, wrappers for your burger, it just keeps coming up. The information that’s coming in daily is just mind boggling, and I actually suggested at a think-tank meeting that we create a worldwide information repository, scientifically vetted, because a lot of what’s going on right now is happening in the European Union. They tend to look more at human based health studies. So it was suggested that we start this, myself and Dr. Rediski are co-chairs on it, 2 and 3. We are working with China, Australia, the folks in Washington, and the European Union to get as much relevant health information in front of people in an easy to use interface and try to make that happen. But again, it’s all volunteer time by 20 people, no funding, no nothing, so it’s very frustrating unless you're plugged into that whole system of applying for grants and doing all that kind of stuff. We just have so many communities that need help, that we haven’t done that. DD: It seems like sometimes the timeline for some of those things like applying for grants and working through certain processes is not in sync with people’s needs too, adding to the challenge. �AJ: Yes, although I will say there’s been a number of groups, I can’t even list all them here, but one group in particular, Freshwater Future up in the Traverse City area, and they’re international as well, they’ve helped us with several grants. They’re helping us with our website right now. They are the group that came up with the $80 alternative to the $300 water testing alternative offered by the state. $300 is a lot for a lot of people, and the fact there’s an $80 alternative out there is great. Unfortunately, they had to shut their labs down due to COVID, but I’m trying to find out when they’re going to be back online. Ultimately, in my opinion, the way to address this is an initiative that I started with former chair of MPART, Steve Slyburn. We came up with computer systems to track, using PFAS, everywhere [?], then goes a step further to model groundwater flow to tell you if it’s moving towards you. So you can go and enter your address and it would say “you’re a quarter mile away from a landfill, where we know there’s PFAS, but you don’t have to worry about it because the water is flowing in the other direction.” Or, “you should be worried about it because it’s coming in your direction.” Those are the people who can’t know on their own, due to low funds, to test their wells. They could at least spring for the $70 and say “okay I’ve been drinking poison water, what do I do? Okay I get a filter, now what do I do?”. The state just doesn’t have the resources to deal with individual hits like that. There’s going to have to be a structure put into place, but the best hope right now is to come up with a system that allows any member of the public in Michigan to enter their address and find out if they’re at more risk or less risk. It can’t be able to say, you are definitely impacted. But I think people, if given the opportunity to check into risks, often will. We’re hoping that would be the case with this system. DD: That sounds like a great idea. I hope it comes to fruition. AJ: It’s been promised by the state by the first quarter of 2022. We’ve been told that certain aspects of it, the most difficult is the ground level water modelling as far as direction of groundwater, nobody’s ever tried that at a statewide basis based on well logs. They have to verify the data, because often well-logged locations often list the wrong location. That’s the element that’s taking the longest, but there’s 32 other layers of information, including manufacturers who utilize PFAS, in most cases in strict accordance with the law and there’s no spills. But, shouldn’t the person who lives right next door to that plant be able to say, “Okay, I’m going to spend $70 and test my water, and if it comes up clean then I can say I have a good corporate neighbor.” If it doesn’t, then we’ve got another site added to the ever growing list with MPART. Each one is a community with their own stories. DD: To go back to that original problem, the one where you said, “how do you get information, especially information about risk out to people?”, this would really help to address that lack. AJ: Right. Unfortunately, it’s come up against some real roadblocks. With respect to EPA, they have not really been allowed to look at PFAS until recently. The plan that they came out with in �the last year of the Trump administration was: “We agree to look at it, we’ll get back to you in a year.” They’re saying they could be as long as a year away from regulating this at the federal level. Which, by that time, Michigan’s regulations will be years old. Good for the folks in Michigan for recognizing how important water is and getting regulations in place to protect them. DD: So this kind of leads into my other main question, what concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward? AJ: It’s just that- I think unfortunately there’s parallels with what happened with Covid, which is initially ignoring the potential gravity of the problem. Then when it hits, really going through a period of denial, “oh it’s not that bad yet.” You know, I found that even immediately in a case in Rockford, you could go up to almost half of the people you run into, and they won’t even really know what PFAS is, because Rockford has been on clean water since at least 2000. It’s one of those problems that unfortunately unless it’s happening to me, it sounds pretty complex. These 5,000 or 9,000 chemicals that the federal government doesn’t even regulate. There’s a very high degree of apathy, but when people begin to realize they are being exposed, it’s in 99.9% of people in the world. You have it in your blood right now, I have it in my blood right now. The question is, how much? The question that very few people have been able to look into is, how much is too much? What we know about the current PFAS contamination is that they’re really bad. Instead of being measured in parts per thousand, parts per million, or even parts per billion, the regulations for PFAS are as low as six parts per trillion. It’s difficult to comprehend how minute that is. An analogy I’ve heard is: when there’s one drop of water in an Olympic-sized swimming pool that renders the whole pool undrinkable. That’s some pretty toxic stuff. In the 50s and 60s, people were disposing of it in tanker trucks, thousands of gallons a day. Sometimes a local dump would take it. [?] turn on the spigot on a truck and just drive along the side of the road. This stuff can pop up anywhere, and it has been. In surface water, it’s pretty easy to identify because you have foam, and it’s a different kind of foam. It’s not that brownish-yellow natural foam, it’s bright white. Frankly, [computer stalls] [inaudible]because they’re PFAS in the Grand River, it doesn’t take much to generate foam. DD: So before we wrap up today, is there anything else that you’d like to add that we haven’t touched on? Or is there anything that you would like to go back to? AJ: Sorry, my internet is absolutely horrible. I used to have these fancy offices downtown and now I’m in the middle of the country in a rundown old town and we have to rely on cell towers that are miles away, [?] the phone companies lobbied….[inaudible]. DD: Uh oh, Aj I think you might have cut out...you’re back! �AJ: Can you hear me now? DD: I can. AJ: [Inaudible]...so now even though these phone lines [?] they won’t connect it. So actually, 100 years ago in 1921 there was better phone service here then there is today. DD: Wow. AJ: Anyhow, did I mention the one drop in an olympic sized swimming pool? Because I don’t remember when the question interjected into my line of thought. So I’m just trying to think where I left off. DD: Yes, you did talk about the one drop in the swimming pool. We had been talking about the concerns you have with PFAS contamination moving forward, and some of that conversation was helping people understand the magnitude of the problem. I don’t know if that helps jog your memory at all. Wait, are you still there? AJ: I mean without hearing what I really said before, I really risk repeating things, and that’s kind of embarrassing. It’s a result of the medications and everything they have me on right now. I don’t know if I could just listen to it and then we could ask that third question in a follow up in a day or two. That way, I could just say, “oh i left out these two or three points” and we could wrap it up that way. Does that sound like something we could do? DD: Yeah, absolutely. I can send you the recording. AJ: Unfortunately, with the recording also I’m usually a little more honest than I should be with the things that I mentioned to you earlier. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Birkbeck, A.J. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-05-19 Title A name given to the resource A.J. Birkbeck, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource A.J. Birbeck is an environmental attorney based in Chicago, but originally from Grand Rapids, Michigan. In his interview, he discusses the lack of information available to the public about PFAS and his work in communities with large contaminations, such as the the one in Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/46bd2f4efdc57a35244c0aea21707d27.mp4 852923b0ba5baf813abe281a7840fded https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/20a086e3e3e611c0e04b24e68d42e7ef.pdf 0efabf29f31f00085207c316eb4a0fcf PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Nelson Birman (43:53) Background Information (00:30)            Born June 19th, 1936 in Battle Creek, Michigan. (00:39) Served in the U.S. Marine Corps, 1954-1957. (00:50) He joined the Marine Corps a few weeks after he graduated from high school. (2:19) His father worked as a tool and die maker. (3:25) He attended school in Battle Creek and went to high school at Hickory Creek High School. (3:35) He graduated from Hastings High School in 1954. He transferred there after he moved. (3:45) He has 3 brothers. (3:56) His younger brother committed suicide in 1951. (4:14) When he was young, Nelson wanted to become a pilot. (5:00) Nelson volunteered with 2 of his friends in 1954. (5:33) Nelson joined the Marine Corps due to its reputation and his interest in growing up and becoming independent. (8:00) Basic Training (8:22)      Basic training lasted 12 weeks. (8:25) He recalls how unpredictable and strict his drill sergeant was. He prepared the men to be ready at every moment to take an order. (8:35) Because Nelson did not make his bed tight enough one day, his rack was torn apart by his drill instructor. (9:29) Nelson was made an instructor later in his service. Because of this he became close friends with many of his fellow service men. (10:05) After basic training he Nelson was sent to Treasure Island in San Francisco Bay for electronics and radio training school from the Navy. (10:34) Service at Camp Pendleton (10:39)         After graduating radio school Nelson was sent to Camp Pendleton, California where he was given a jeep and made a radio operator. (10:40) 25-31 was his MOS. (11:00) He was at times asked to be a bodyguard for the commandant and a guide for celebrities that came to entertain the soldiers. (11:18) He served as an instructor at Camp Pendleton. He trained on rifles and hand grenades. (12:12) He served on a Marine Corps shooting team. (13:40) He was never based overseas. He did practice landings on beaches. (14:29) While crawling under barbed wire and live ammunition, Nelson was struck by a ricochet shot in the left hip. (15:23) Nelson was on a strike force, if the order came he could be overseas in less than 24 hours. (16:39) �     He was assigned to the 1st Marine Division, 1st Service Regiment. (17:20) Nelson was rapidly promoted to Sergeant while in the service. (17:55) The men Nelson trained on hand grenade would often panic when realizing the power of the weapon in their hand. There were some close calls with weaker men while in training. (19:10) Nelson also trained men on the flamethrower.(20:05) He was awarded the National Defense Service Ribbon and Medal, the Good Conduct Medal, and a High Expert for Shooting Medal. (20:56) Life in the Service (21:54)        Camp Pendleton had a rodeo. The stars of the television series Gunsmoke were brought in to appear at the rodeo. (22:00) On one occasion Camp Pendleton was surrounded on three sides by a fire. All Marines not on special duty were assigned to fight the fire. (24:00) Nelson was very impressed with the officers and instructors he had. (25:01) There were many Marines Nelson encountered that had half hearted outlooks on their military service. (25:25) He was somewhat disappointed that he was never served overseas. (25:50) Nelson married Ruth with one year left of his active service. (26:34) After he was married Nelson lived in Oceanside. (27:24) Life after Service (27:55)          He was discharged before his time was complete in 1957. (28:00) After being discharged from the Marine Corps. Nelson attended Western Michigan University under the G.I. bill and studied electronics and automation. He graduated with an associate’s degree in 1960. (28:20) Nelson and his wife lived in Battle Creek. (28:40) After college Nelson had several part time jobs. He then was employed by the postal service and retired after 40 years of service there. (30:03) He retired in 2004. (31:00) He was also on the Bedford Michigan Rescue Squad. (31:38) Nelson was a very skilled archery man and a member of the Michigan Bow Hunters. (32:35) Nelson was remarried in 1995. (33:25) His second wife died in 2010. (33:49) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BirmanN1346V Title A name given to the resource Birman, Nelson (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Birman, Nelson Description An account of the resource Nelson Birman, born June 19th 1936 in Battle Creek Michigan, served in the U.S. Marines Corps. from 1954-1957. Nelson spent his military career as an instructor, instructing soldiers on rifles, hand grenades, flamethrowers, and bayonets. He also was a gifted rifleman who served on a Marine Corps. shooting team. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Erichsen, Wallace (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Marine Corps Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-01-25 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/12b7b0e4a2161713808fd18a617257b9.pdf d164122ff975f1729826f44a762afedb PDF Text Text THE DAY LINCOLN WAS SHOT: POSTSCRIPT PERHAPS, like me, you wonder what happened to some of the people who played a part in this day of April 14 , 1865. I will tell you, in no set order, the little that I know: Surgeon General Barnes lived long . enough to minister to the assassinated President Garfield. Andrew Johnson lived ten years. William H. Seward recovered, and died in 1872 of natural causes. He was seventy- one. James Speed, Lincoln's old friend, resigned as Attorney General in a year. " Stanton was forced from his post by Johnson and begged to be appointed to the Supreme Court of the United States. The appointment arrived as he was on his deathbed in 1669. The Secretary of the Interior, John Usher, resigned in a month . Gideon Welles lived to be seventy-six years old. General Augur, who had been in Grant's class at West Point, retired_ from the army and lived to see the , ,\., -· start of the .Spanish-AmeriQan War. Schuyler Colfax became Vice President of the United States and was later involved i n t he Credit Mobilier scandal. William H. Crook, the guard, lived a great number of years and wrote his memoirs. Thomas Eckert , who could .break pokers over his arm, b ecame a general, retired, beca~e head of a big commercial te-legraph company, and lived until 1910. The owner of' Ford's Theatre, J ohn T. Ford, was thrown into prison, but was later released for lack of evidence. The government confiscated nis theater, but - he forced it to pay $100,000 for the 'house. Tiventy-eight y ears later, the floors of Ford's collapsed , killing more than a score of government workers. Today, rebuilt, the theater is a national museum. Ulysses S. Grant, in time , became President of the United States, had a poor term of office , became a tool of Wall Street operators, and wrote extensive " memoirs to keep £rem dying penniless in 1885. Bessie Hale , the Senator's daughter who loved John Wilkes Booth, later married William Eaton Chandler , who was not an a ctor. Clara Harris was killed by her husband, Maj or Henry Rathbone, who, in turn, lived out his days in an insane asylum. Marshal Ward Hill Lamon, who might have saved Lincoln, regretted all ,. his days (and they covered the next twenty-eight years ) that he was in Richmond night the President was shot. �George Atzerodt was caught, tried and hanged. So were Lewis Paine and David Herold. Booth was cornered in a ,Virginia barn and shot. For years afterward there were stories that it wasn't Booth who was shot, but the stories were wrong. I t ~ Booth and, years later, when the government removed his body from under a stone floor in a prison, and sent it home, the Booth family identified the remains as those of John Wilkes Booth and buried him in the family plot. Mrs. Mary E. Surratt was tried, convicted and hanged for cpnspiracy. On a hot July day, a government employee helQ an umbrella over h~r head before the trap was sprung. On the morning of the hanging, her daughter Anna tried to see Presi dent Johnson to beg for mercy for her mother. Anna was kept from seeing the President by Preston King of New York and Senator James H. La ne of Kansas. Six months later, King tied a bag of-shot around his neck and jumped off a Hoboken ferry; eight months after that, Senator Lane· shot himself. Dr. Samuel Mudd was tried for conspiracy a nd convicted. So were Sam Arnold, Mike O'Laughlin and Ned Spangler, the horse holder. All four were sentenced to Albany (New York) Penitentiary. Secretary Stanton, who felt that they had got off lightly, removed them to Fort Jefferson, Dry Tortugas Prison, off Key West , Florida. There in Augus t, 1867, yellow fever broke, out and, when the prison doctor died, :pr. Mudd volunteered his services. He saved t he lives of soldiers and prisoners , but Mi ke O'Laughlin died. The officers of the post appealed for a pardon for Mudd and it was granted in February, 1869. Arnold and Spangler were freed wi th him and, realizing t hat Ned Spangler was dying of tuberculosis, Dr. Mudd took him home to Br yantown with him, and cared for him until he died. John Lloyd and Louis Wiechman became the-government's star witnesses against Mrs. Surratt. Lloyd claimed he was t hreatened with death unless ,he testified against her. Wiechman claimed that Stanton promised him a job fo.r his work as a witness, and for a time he worked in the Philadelphia customs house. He was later fired. When he died, he kept repeating that he was on his deathbed and he would still say that he told the t ruth at the trial of Mrs. Surratt. John Surratt ran to Canada, thenqe to Europe, and was discov~red two years later working as a Zouave forty miles from the ~~tican. He was brought back, tried and eventually released. He made lectures on the assassination of Lincoln. �Mrs. Mary Todd Lincoln, perhaps ~he most pathetic of all the people who figured in this day , was certified as a "lunatic"* in Cook County, Illinois, ten years after the dea~h of her husband. It was Robert's sad duty to sign the commitment pap ers. She was released a year later, and spent the last months of her life (1882 ) in a darkened room dressed in widow ' s weeds. In 1871, Tad died. The last of the survivors, Robert Todd Lincoln, died at'the age of eighty-three, in 1926. *This word, in a time of psychiatric ignorance, was used to describe most emotional disturbances. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-45_CW2817 Title A name given to the resource The Day Lincoln was Shot: Postscript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bishop, Jim, 1907-1987 Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Lincoln, Abraham, 1809-1865--Assassination Washington (D.C.) Description An account of the resource Typescript written and signed by Jim Bishop, author of The Day Lincoln was Shot. The postscript describes what happened to the people who played a part in the day Lincoln was assassinated. Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Civil War and slavery collection (RHC-45): http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/128a73014e7dc2064f78d7b188077d64.pdf 80aa0821e5cf63474bb4cc5f4cd6cac1 PDF Text Text 1 Grand Valley State University Special Collections Kent County Oral History collections, RHC-23 M.R. Bissell Interviewed on Sept. 16, 1971 Edited and indexed by Don Bryant, 2010 – bryant@wellswooster.com Tape #9 and 10: (43:22) Biographical Information Melville R. Bissell, Jr. was born in Grand Rapids on 7 April 1882. He was married on 29 April 1907 to Olive E. Bulkeley in Grand Rapids. Olive was the daughter of William F. Bulkeley and Abby A. Marks natives of New York. She died on 6 August 1964 at the Bissell home at 350 Plymouth SE. Melville died on 20 December 1972 in Grand Rapids and is buried in Oak Hill Cemetery. Melville and Olive had three daughters, Barbara, Anne and Eleanor. His father, Melville R. Bissell, Sr. was born 25 September 1843 in Hartwick, Otsego County, New York and died 15 March 1889 in Grand Rapids. He married Anna Sutherland on 29 November 1865 in De Pere, Wisconsin where Anna’s parents had moved to from Nova Scotia. Anna was born 2 December 1846 in River John, Pictou County, Nova Scotia, the daughter of William and Eleanor Sutherland. She passed away on 8 November 1934 at her home at 112 College Avenue SE, Grand Rapids. Besides Melville R., Jr., the Bissell’s were parents to Dorothy A., Harvey S., Irving J. and a daughter, Lillie May who died at the age of seven years. ___________ Interviewer: Mr. Bissell, where did your family live in Grand Rapids? Bissell: Originally they lived down on Sheldon Street, eighty-five Sheldon. That was the Bissell home at that time. I was about, oh, seven years of age at that time, but I can remember it. Interviewer: Where is eighty-five Sheldon, approximately; is the house still standing? Bissell: The house is still standing. I can't tell you exactly where the streets are 'cause I don't remember. Well I'll tell you, it is pretty near where, you know where the hotel is now, the hotel on, the corner on one of those streets? I'd say it’s in the next block above the Woman's City Club. Interviewer: Oh, I see. Bissell: That's where it was. We lived there until I was about seven years of age. It was in eighty-nine or eighty-seven my father bought the house up on College Avenue; and it was fixed up and we lived [in it] from then on. My father had caught cold and died of pneumonia at that time, so he never lived up on College Avenue; he always lived on Sheldon Street. Interviewer: Was your father born in Grand Rapids? �2 Bissell: No; no he moved here. He moved here from Kalamazoo - mother and father and grandfather moved up here. And the old house that they lived in was here for a good many years; and now, of course, it’s got a building on it, [?across from?] St. Mark's Church. You know where St. Mark's Church is? Well, it’s on that corner there; that was the old house that I remember my grandmother and grandfather lived there; and we used to go there and see them. Before that, that house was where the Post Office was. They moved that house out from the Post Office site to build the Post Office down there - the old Post Office. You know where that is. The house was originally built there. Interviewer: How did your family get into the carpet sweeper business? Bissell: Well, that's very simple; my father was in the business of china - had a china shop. When they opened up the stuff there was a great deal of, you know, rubbish along with the china, from the unpacking and all like that. He wanted to clean it up and he tried to get a box and a brush that would do it. And that's the way he got started. It really started as a bare floor proposition, but it didn't work so well on the bare floor as it did on the carpet. So, he started making carpet sweepers. He kept right on and my mother worked right along with him and they worked it out together. Interviewer: When your father died, did your mother take over the business? Bissell: Yes, she was always a business woman. Even in a lot of years when I was a young boy growing up, she was interested in her children but she didn't want to take care of them. She had someone take care of us and she did the business, she ran the sweeper company. Interviewer: How long did she run that business? Bissell: She ran it until I came along and took over. Interviewer: When was that, sir? Bissell: Oh, let's see; when did I start? I don't remember - a long time ago. Interviewer: How old are you now? Bissell: I'm nearly ninety. Interviewer: When you lived on College Avenue, what was it like growing up there as a child? Bissell: Well, it was fine. There was just a few houses, people had barns and had horses in them and coachmen and everything for the horses. Automobiles; I can remember when automobiles first came in. I knew every person that had an automobile at that time, and the make of car he had. When you'd hear a car coming, you'd run out to the street to see it go by. Interviewer: Do you remember the first car you ever saw? �3 Bissell: Well, I think it was Charlie Judd’s; I think that was called the U.S. Long Distance or something like that. I can't remember exactly the name of it. Interviewer: Was it quite a thrill? Bissell: Oh, I'll tell you, cars were scarce, there weren't very many of them. There weren't probably more than three or four cars in Grand Rapids. People tried to make them, you know. They'd take a light carriage and try to put a motor in it, connect it up; that wasn't very satisfactory, though. They had to start and build them up from the beginning to really run. Interviewer: Were there any people manufacturing cars here then? Bissell: Well, Austin was the only car man that was making cars here. They were shipping them in from Detroit and so forth. But, Austin was the only one making them, the Austin, and that was a very good car and it was a large car. We had one and my wife's family had one and they were good cars. But of course it had the Planetary System; they didn't have a gear shift. You know what a Planetary System is? Well, it's a set of gears down under the foot boards of the car that run there; and they throw a lever on, that is sort of like a brake, and they run through that. Interviewer: Why did they call it the Planetary System? Bissell: I don't know. That was the way they did it at that time; that's the only kind of cars that were running at all, didn't have gear systems. Of course, the cars were [had] two sitting in front and then you went around in the back and got in through a door that was about that wide, just big enough to get through, and sat in there and sort of on an angle like this or like that. This was the door here, and they shut this, and then they had another little door that dropped down so you could sit on the door. You could take five people. Interviewer: What was the reaction of horses to the first cars? Bissell: Well, they didn't like them; they didn't like them, I shouldn't say that. They were scared of them, of course they made quite a noise and they were scared of them. The regulations were that if you were in a car coming, you had to slow down for horses; if they shied or showed any scaredness, you had to stop. And, in fact, once in a while you had to get out and lead the horse past the car. Interviewer: What was it like living on College Avenue in those days? I mean, what was the style of living like? Bissell: Well, it was very quiet in there. When we bought this house we even lived in it at that time the house was being fixed up. The house had been there for a long time. It was built, I think, by Foster of Foster and Stevens. [In the 1868 city directory, Wilder D. Foster’s residence was listed as 7 College-av. It was also described as located on the east side of College-av. between Fulton and Rose – Rose being Cherry street at that time.] Originally we lived there in his house. It was built in two sections, the first section had the back that was mostly wood and the next section was a brick section. Mother, when I was a boy about eight or nine years old, �4 ripped off the back and built a section of brick in there for the house. We had one tub, bath tub, that was downstairs and in a little room off the hall and this was where we took our baths and had some kind of a heater in there, run by gas and that would heat up the water for you. We took our Saturday night baths there. Interviewer: Were there many children in the neighborhood when you were growing up? Bissell: Oh yes, quite a lot of them. Fred Pantlind, Ralph Voigt -Ralph Voigt lived directly across the street from us. I knew Ralph Voigt very well. There was a boy who lived in that small brick house right next to or three houses over from the Voigt's. I can't think of his name now, but I used to play with him all the time. And later on when Fred Pantlind was born, they came over and had a house right next to ours. Interviewer: Did the families interact as well as the children? Did the families have activities together? Bissell: Oh yes, my mother was a widow and so she always had somebody with her. She had her sister a great deal with her, her niece and people that lived there with her so as to be with her because she didn't want to live alone. Of course, they did some bossing of the children because we were pretty young at that time. Interviewer: Did your mother attend parties that were given within society? Bissell: Oh, yes, she would go to some of the parties that were given. Of course Kent Country Club was in this house. This is the old club house. Kent Country Club was organized here originally, it was a boat club, and a tennis club, and everything, and finally got into a golf club. I think golf is [an] all the way around game here you know, when I was a boy. Interviewer: Was it a very good course? Bissell: Well, not good in the way the clubs are now, but it was all right. Interviewer: Was golf a relatively new game at that time? Bissell: Very. I'll tell you how golf started here. Mr. Blodgett or somebody went abroad, and saw golf, and bought a set of clubs and brought them back here. Everybody that played golf used that set of clubs. Then of course they had to make more of them and everybody had their own sets. Interviewer: You were just talking about Wealthy Street. Bissell: Wealthy was originally right straight through into Reed's Lake, I mean Fisk Lake. Of course, there wasn't any way for us but to go back that way and go along that [?] road. You know where Mrs. Avery lives out there on Plymouth? [Corner of Plymouth and Lake Drive] Well, that was the toll gate for this district. That was a toll road and that was the road that went out to our farm and to Reed's Lake. And then the [Mr.] Hanchett came along and wanted to get �5 out to Reed's Lake with his cars - streetcars - and so they had to curve around here to get to around the lake. Interviewer: So, instead of Wealthy Street ending up at Fisk Lake, they changed the road so it ended up at Reed's Lake? Bissell: Yes. Of course first it was a dummy line. Then they got the streetcars running out there. Then you’ve got Ramona and all in there. Interviewer: Did you buy this house? Bissell Yes. Interviewer: How long have you lived here? Bissell: About forty years. Interviewer: When you bought this house, was this all developed out here like this? Bissell: It is exactly how it was, and the way this house was. I imagine I'd made some improvements on it. I built that window there. It went right from the post there and right across on the other side of house, I built a porch over there, of course, but as far as the grounds is concerned and the house itself, why it is exactly as it was before. It's a three story house and it was the Kent Country Club. They used to play golf here and they played golf all around here. All these places around here, they played golf on. Interviewer: When you bought this house, did you buy it as a residence, or did you buy it as a farm? Bissell: No, I bought it as a residence. Mr. Hanchett owned it. And he used it as a home and it was originally brick. It was plastered and I think Hanchett took that off and fixed it up. Interviewer: Did Hanchett have his own private streetcar to take him downtown to work in the morning? Bissell: He had a private car that was run on the street here. He used it as, not as just going downtown, but he used it to have parties on. He'd pick you up downtown and take you out to Reed's Lake and they would have a party; and it was an open car and he had a driver and it was run by electricity. The open cars were very nice; I've been on it. He went downtown, down Monroe Street and right down a few times to Ottawa Beach. When they did that, they put one of the drivers on that ran the electrical cars down there, 'cause they knew the route and they wouldn't run too fast and control it. Interviewer: You mentioned that up there at the corner of Plymouth and Lake Drive where Mrs. Avery lives there was a toll road there? �6 Bissell: There was a toll gate there. Interviewer: Where did the toll road go? Bissell: [The road] went right out that street there, you know where the ___ that section of the [?] houses right out that way; that’s where our farm was. That’s where they used to go out, drive out to the farm, out that street. Interviewer: Where was your farm located, Mr. Bissell? Bissell: Right out the street there. Interviewer: Plymouth? Bissell: No, not Plymouth, but . . . Interviewer: Lake Drive? Bissell: ... Lake Drive. It ran right out there on, about three or four miles. Of course, we had to pay toll when we went out on the line. Interviewer: How much was the toll? Bissell: Well, I'll tell you. My father made arrangements with the toll gate; he paid them so much a year and all the Bissell’s who had cottages and could come out there and so there was no toll. I paid no toll. When I was a young boy, I had some fellows I knew and I would take them out in the carriage out to the farm. I'd say: 'Now we're going past the toll gate, now get down there and we'll run it; and they would. I'd whip the horse up a bit and get across fast and run through the toll gate. As long as we could make it, it was all right. There [was] [apparently referring to a map] the hospital property, this property and [?] across the street on both sides. Originally, they cut down this bank over here for Wealthy and they run [sic] it right into the lake. Of course we couldn't have the streetcars go through the lake so they had to curve around right up here [pointing on a map?]. Ben Hanchett was really behind getting that curve in there, because he was running the street railway. Interviewer: When Mr. Hanchett moved out of this house, did he move off of College Avenue? Bissell: He didn't live down there then. He didn't live here until long after that. Interviewer: Long after he'd....[?] Bissell: He didn't live on College Avenue for a long, long time. That was a few years. He had his horses here, and there was a barn there. He had two or three horses and used to ride downtown, and that was the only way to get downtown, at that time, was to ride down in a carriage. When the streetcar was put in, like that, why lots of people would go down on the streetcar. �7 Interviewer: When you were growing up on College Avenue, what did the young people do for entertainment? Bissell: Oh, I don't know, they used to have shows of different kinds. They put on shows down at the opera house. Interviewer: Were there many dances and things like that? Bissell: Oh yes, we had dances and especially at Christmas time when the schools were all out and we were all home. My mother used to have dances for me and my friends and some of the other people did too. We generally had them in the St. Cecilia or the old Armory which is across from the depot. Interviewer: The old railroad station? Bissell: The old railroad station; the depot there. Interviewer: Where did you go away to school? Bissell: I went to the Gunnery first, and that was in Washington, Connecticut. I was there two or three years, and then after that I went to a small school in (Suffern, New York for a few years. And then, later on, I went to Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, New York. I didn't graduate from there. Interviewer: You didn't graduate from there? Bissell: No, I just quit; I was there two years. Interviewer: And then you came back to Grand Rapids? Bissell: That's in Grand Rapids. Interviewer: Oh! What was the name of the school? Bissell: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. Interviewer: What kind of a school was it? Bissell: That was in Troy, New York. It was a technical school and engineering school. They taught engineering and, believe me, you had to have some mathematics to stay in that place. I never had so much mathematics till I got into that. Interviewer: Are you a member of any clubs here in town? �8 Bissell: Oh, several clubs. The Kent Country Club, of course, was started long before I was a member of it, but my mother was a member of it and I had the privilege of using it in her name until I got out of college, and then I became a member of the country club. Interviewer: When did the University Club come into being? Bissell: Oh, quite a long time ago, but not very long ago as far as years are concerned. Interviewer: What about the Peninsular Club? Bissell: The Peninsular Club was going when I got out of high school and that had been going for a long time. I'm number one man down at the Peninsular Club. Interviewer: Now? Bissell: Now. That means that I have lived a great many years, longest of anybody in the club and that I got a membership. I became a member in, I think, about ought-six[1906]. I've continued that membership the longest of anybody in it, so I'm number one man; and my brother was number two man. He died and then Heber Curtis, I think, came in there number three. I don't know what the numbers are now. It makes no difference as far as [?] are concerned, it's just an interesting thing being number one man at the country club or any club. Interviewer: I heard a story about your mother - when she died - her last words. What were her last words? Bissell: I don't know. Interviewer: Someone told me her last words were, “I am glad.” Someone said those were her last words. Bissell: No, I don't know. Now that might have been so, I don't know. Interviewer: When you were running the factory, were the furniture companies going full steam then? Bissell: They were going full steam then. They have let down since then; and there are some manufacturing companies that used to be here. There used to be a lot of them. Huge and small ones, but . ? . Royal and. Berkey and Gay, a . . and, oh, dozens of them. They've all gone. Interviewer: Did many of those men who ran those big manufacturing plants live around you in your neighborhood? Bissell: Oh, they lived all over town. See, then, by that time we had streetcars all over town and they'd go back and forth to the business on the streetcar. Interviewer: Before the streetcars what did they have? �9 Bissell: Oh, they had carriages; and some men, I know one man, he was a lawyer in town, he liked horses and he used to ride horseback down from his house. Of course, then you had horses right in your barn, you see, and he used to ride downtown horseback and then put his horse in the stable down there and then ride back again. Interviewer: Was that a very common practice for men? Bissell: No, no. But he did that for years because he liked horses and he wanted to ride so he did it that way. Interviewer: What was downtown like in those days? Bissell: It was like all the other small towns around here. Monroe Street was the big shopping street and all the stores were down there and the grocery stores and meat markets and a few shops and all the things were down there. A little later on, at the corner down here why they got a few stores in there. Interviewer: Down on Wealthy and Lake Drive? Bissell: Down Wealthy, yeah, and a few on Reed’s Lake. When I was a boy, the city ended at Eastern Avenue. That was the end of the city. It was just country after that and then they kept gradually going out further and further and further and so they got out to Wealthy and whatever that street is down there. Interviewer: Where did you spend your summers? Bissell: I spent my summers right here; and I'd go down to Ottawa Beach for awhile and I used to know pretty near everybody there. I was next door to Charlie Judd's, who was a man with the company. He lived there and had a cottage there; and he had a boat - that was a launch - on Black Lake there. We used to go down there. It was great coming in there in a launch, 'course it was old-fashioned . . . (?)launch which was different from any other different kinds. They weren't very fast but they were quite powerful. We used to ride all over Black Lake there with it. Interviewer: Were steamers coming in there from Chicago? Bissell: Yes, particularly they came in there every Friday night and go back Sunday night. People would come over on that from Chicago and stay here over the weekend and go back Sunday night. Yes, there was a line of steamers going then. Some of them would stop at some of these other places on the way down and pick up a load of fruit or something like that, and carry it over to Chicago. But there was one landing in there pretty near every night. Interviewer: Were there always dams in the Grand River? Can you remember the Grand River ever being without dams? �10 Bissell: No, I think there were quite a number of them. They did a lot of work on it and they tried to running their steamboats up and down carrying freight and all that, and passengers, but they didn't. There wasn't enough to. They were always running ashore, and it wasn't very deep and it wasn't very good. Interviewer: What was the most memorable experience from the time you were growing up? What's the thing you remember most? Bissell: Oh I don't know. I lived here all my life, I was born here and I lived here until I was grown up - in the town. I went to school in the East, and I came back to Grand Rapids and took a job in the company. Besides that I went out in the plant and learned how to make carpet sweepers and do those things and learned all about it and I worked up from the bottom until I finally became president. Interviewer: Do you think there are any differences between the way men conducted their business in those days compared to the way they conduct their businesses today? Bissell: Oh yes, there's a lot of difference. Everything is a lot more technical now. Of course the telephone and telegraph came in, we had them when I was a boy but not as strong as they are now, they weren't as big. They didn't use it as much then. Some men do a big business on the telephone now, on the cable - Western Union. Things are entirely different, everything's more technical. Interviewer: What do you think was the more preferable age to live in, the age when you were a young man or the age today? Bissell: Well, it depends on what you want. Now it's probably very mild compared to what it was then because everything then... [?] For instance, Mr. Hanchett lived out in this house here, ran the street railway and we had the streetcars to go on. I lived on College Avenue before I was married, why I used to walk down Monroe Street, the whole length. I walked down from my house on Washington Street, down to Monroe Street and back - sometimes twice a day, in the morning and the afternoon. Of course they had Power's Theatre and they had shows down there; and companies came in and stayed here and put on a different show every week. There was Reed's Lake with all the amusements in it and it was, well you could hardly get on a streetcar. They would have two or three cars would wait up there, about time the theatre was getting out in the evening, and take the people into town. That was the only way they had getting out there. Of course when the automobile came in, why they could go by a car. Interviewer: Was that when the streetcar started to dissolve, when the automobile came in? Bissell: Well, it didn't progress like it had before, because people had cars. It made a big difference then because if they wanted to go to the lake, why they would go out in their car, and a lot of them did. There weren't as many cars, of course, and the streetcars were crowded coming in at night after the show. People wanted to get home. It'd probably take four or five car loads to take them and get them out of there. It would be jammed full. It was pretty bad sometimes when it rained and then at that time, why there was open cars. They took the closed �11 cars off in the summertime and put on open cars. Those were run across like that [gesture?] and there was a row of people here and have a row in here and another row in here. It was one of our amusements in those days to take a streetcar ride in the evening, in a hot evening, to cool off. We'd go out to North Park and then perhaps stay a little while there, and get a soda water or something like that and get on and come into Grand Rapids again. Interviewer: Was the Grand River used at all in those days for entertainment or for boating events? Bissell: Not very much, not very much. The Grand River wasn't very deep, you know. They had some little boats and there were a few quicker, motor boats. Motors weren't very plentiful in those days. They were noisy and dirty. Interviewer: I think that is good enough, don't you? Bissell: That's about all I can tell you. Interviewer: Okay. INDEX A H Avery, Mrs. · 5, 6 Hanchett, Mr. · 5, 6, 10 B J Bissell, Anna Sutherland (Mother) · 2, 4, 7, 8 Bissell, Melville R. Sr. (Father) · 1, 2, 6 Black Lake · 9 Blodgett, Mr. · 4 Judd, Charlie · 3, 9 C Curtis, Heber · 8 F Fisk Lake · 5 Foster and Stevens Company · 3 G Grand River · 10, 11 K Kent Country Club · 4, 5, 8 O Ottawa Beach · 6, 9 P Pantlind, Fred · 4 Peninsular Club · 8 �12 R V Reed's Lake · 5, 9, 10 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute · 7 Voigt, Ralph · 4 S W Woman's City Club · 1 St. Mark's Church · 2 U University Club · 8 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/aa3ac7df7c42608ff7abc5a2f88a111a.mp3 b09e66ac6d8b7a88b524e0593d1cce00 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Rapids Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Heritage Hill (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Local histories Memoirs Michigan--History Oral histories (document genre) Description An account of the resource Taped and transcribed interviews conducted in the early 1970s primarily of the children and grandchildren of many of the founders of Grand Rapids, Michigan; many of whom were residents of the Heritage Hill neighborhood. Interviews were collected to develop a significant collection of oral resources that would supplement other primary and secondary local history materials. Initially funded as a private project, Grand Valley State College (now University) assumed responsibility for continuing the project until 1977. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Various Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/452">Grand Rapids oral history collection (RHC-23)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf; audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text; Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-23 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1971 - 1977 Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-23_9-10Bissell Title A name given to the resource Bissell, M.R. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bissell, M.R. Description An account of the resource M.R. Bissell was born on April 7, 1882 in Grand Rapids. His father (M.R. Sr.) invented the Bissell Carpet Sweeper. The Bissell Carpet Sweeper Company was established in 1883. When Mr. Bissell's father died prematurely, his mother took his place running the business. M. R. Bissell, Jr. attended Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in New York for two years but did not graduate. He returned to Grand Rapids to run the business, and became a member of the Kent Country Club, the Peninsular Club, and the University Club. He died December 20, 1972. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan--History Local histories Memoirs Oral histories (document genre) Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Heritage Hill (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Grand Valley State University Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf audio/mp3 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Grand Rapids oral history collection (RHC-23) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1971 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e79650c46df147a48da4e1bd93173b4f.mp4 7a4e924ed0c8075f8af2df00894ea208 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/357e5f0911edda2b4d47d31d6d96d505.pdf 15c7f5895cf6847a6200921c791f890c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Korean War Laverne Bivens Interview Length: (00:19:53:00) Training and Service (00:00:27:00)  One day, he received a letter saying that his friends and neighbors had chosen him to serve in the military (00:00:27:00) o This was during the Korean War, when there was a military draft and because of the draft, the military ended up choosing the branch Bivens would serve in, the Army (00:00:34:00)  Following the letter, Bivens went to Battle Creek, Michigan and Fort Custer, where he was inducted into the Army; from Fort Custer, he went to Camp Atterberry, Indiana for his basic training (00:00:49:00) o After basic training, he was allowed two days leave, which Bivens used to get married (00:01:02:00)  Following the two-day leave, Bivens got on a train for Washington state, where he then got on a troop ship and head towards Alaska (00:01:13:00)  When the ship arrived in Alaska, it pulled off at Kodiak island, where it stayed for some time (00:01:24:00) o Once the men had disembarked and made their way to Fairbanks, they learned that they reason they stayed at Kodiak was that the original dock at which they were supposed to land had blown up (00:01:43:00)  While he was in Fairbanks, Bivens was part of the 4th Regimental Combat team, which served as ground defense for the Air Force (00:01:59:00)  They arrived in Alaska in June, 1953 and Bivens was assigned to the tank company, although he did not know anything about a tank, except what it looked like (00:02:18:00) o He was eventually detached from the tank company and assigned to headquarters, where he held security information material for the battalion commander (00:02:36:00) o During this time, his unit became quite acquainted with the native Alaskans, who used their dog sleds to take the men where they needed to go (00:02:53:00) o While in Alaska, the men had to set up a tent in the Alaskan cold, which would reach sixty degrees below zero at night (00:03:13:00)  While in the military, Bivens learned: authority, how to keep information secret and he gained many friends (00:03:34:00)  His wife was with him in Alaska because she was a registered nurse and they ended up having their first child in Alaska; his wife worked at a civilian hospital in Fairbanks (00:04:00:00)  When he and his wife left Alaska, they took a car that they had bought there and traveled down the Alcan Highway (00:04:29:00) �     o They eventually made their way to Chicago so that Bivens could be discharged (00:04:44:00) o Camp Atterbury, where he had done his basic training, was near Chicago and where he was discharged (00:04:48:00) While in high school, Bivens was the president of the local FFA (Future Farmers of America) chapter; he was preparing to be a farmer, a job that he wanted to do (00:05:09:00) When he came back from the military, Bivens still wanted to farm, so he went into partnership with his father at a dairy farm and after about eight years, he bought his own farm (00:05:28:00) o He and his wife eventually had five children, all who were involved in the farming (00:05:53:00) There was times when Bivens was somewhat afraid because the men were in Alaska to protect to coast from the Russians coming across, something that the men thought was a real possibility (00:06:21:00) o One time, he was out on a project and when he came back to base, one of the buildings in the battalion was burnt to the ground (00:06:40:00) o He later learned that the persons cleaning the building used gasoline to clean the floors and the gasoline ended up exploding on them and burning the cleaners alive (00:06:58:00) o There was no one shooting at the men but they still lost soldiers in the company (00:07:12:00) o In Bivens’ job, there was a spy in the outfit that was getting engineering plans for some of the unit’s equipment and sending the information over to the Russians (00:07:17:00)  Bivens was involved in the trial, which made his fearful because he did not know if the Russians would retaliate against him for what he had said at the trial (00:07:37:00) o It was not bullets bouncing around that made him fearful, but it was things that made him wonder what was next (00:07:54:00) The food was “tremendous” and consisted of C and K rations (00:08:10:00) o Even most dogs would vomit of they ate the rations, which were in truth, terrible (00:08:35:00) o Some of the jelly cakes and crackers, amongst other things, were edible but they still ended up eating the bad rations, because it was what they had to eat (00:08:43:00) o He would have much rather ate the jackrabbit and caribou that he hunted, which was delicious (00:09:04:00) On his spare time, Bivens would check and M1 rifle out from the supply department and go caribou hunting, or a shotgun and go rabbit hunting, or a tent and go out on a little trip with his friends (00:09:18:00) o For the thirty day leave that he had, because he was interested in dairy farming, Bivens worked on the largest dairy farm in Alaska, the Creamer Dairy (00:09:34:00) o He also played football with the Army team, specifically the team from his unit (00:10:14:00) �        There were not too many bases in Alaska, so the team ended up flying back to the continental United States (00:10:24:00)  Because the weather was so cold, grass did not grow, just dirt, and when it became the warm season, the dirt would dry, so that when they were playing football, the men were playing in sand banks and whenever they made or missed a tackle, their uniforms filled with sand (00:10:34:00) His wife did not come up to Alaska until she received her nursing certification and Bivens wrote to her every night (00:11:13:00) o Bivens’ grandmother ended up writing to him every night, so he ended up writing to her often also (00:11:18:00) At one point, following their service, Bivens and his comrades would get together every three years and over time, the group has begun to meet more regularly (00:11:50:00) o One time, Bivens’ best friend asked if he wanted to go to church, Bivens said that he did so they went do to a Presbyterian Church in Fairbanks, where the two joined with the Young Calvinist group, which constituted the bulk of the group that met after the war (00:12:28:00) While doing his job in the military, Bivens had to be very meticulous with his book work; everything had to be honest, correct and accurate (00:13:22:00) o Because of that, now, things have to be exactly right for him, a trait that sometimes annoys people (00:13:40:00) He is not a member of any veterans association, although he does support them (00:14:06:00) When the Korean War ended, he was still stationed in Fairbanks (00:14:33:00) He remembers when Pearl Harbor was attacked by the Japanese in 1941 specifically (00:14:56:00) o For the farm, they had two sets of dairy cows at different farms and they had an old flat bed truck to go between the two farms (00:15:01:00) o Inside the truck was a radio and they had just pulled into the drive of the second farm to do the milking and on the radio came the news that Pearl Harbor had been bombed (00:15:09:00) Something that please him while he was in the Army was that for a time, he was in Special Services and he learned leather crafting, which he taught to the other soldiers, who enjoyed it (00:15:39:00) o For a time, he was in charge of the Special Services purchasing and selling and one time, they questioned him on his bookkeeping (00:16:00:00) o They ended up taking his books to headquarters to make sure that Bivens handled all the money correctly (00:16:18:00)  The Army did not like the way that Bivens kept the books; he did it in an expense/income system and they wanted him to use a double entry system (00:16:25:00) o When they came back with his books, Bivens found out that he had more money than he thought he did (00:16:37:00) �   The bookkeeping incident showed that Bivens was honest, which helped him get jobs insecurity because the Army knew that he was honest and he would not do anything wrong (00:16:55:00) When he first went down to Battle Creek, he was a farm boy and a young Christian and he did not know about the world too much (00:17:22:00) o They gathered all the men together to issue their clothing and Bivens could not hear the sergeant too well and he asked, “Sir, could you repeat that again” (00:17:36:00) o The sergeant said, “Don’t you call me sir, I’m no officer” (00:17:53:00) o Bivens was trying to be respectful but that was the military (00:18:04:00) On the day of his discharge, Bivens and some friends from Alaska received the paperwork saying that they were discharged, which was what Bivens had been looking forward to (00:18:27:00) o They went home after that and that was it (00:18:40:00) o He had fulfilled his obligation to his country and he would gladly do it again, even at the age of seventy-seven; if he had to fight for his country, he would (00:18:50:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BivensL Title A name given to the resource Bivens, Laverne (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bivens, Laverne Description An account of the resource During his military service, Laverne Bivens served in the 4th Regimental Combat team, which the Army had stationed in Alaska as part of the defense against a possible Soviet attack. Although he served during the latter part of the Korean war, Bivens never saw combat. Instead, his job was the defense of Alaska and the Air Force bases in the territory against any aggression. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Teusink, Susanna (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-05-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3f22cb1654bbe88858fd93621b6a0a02.pdf dee8cf4b5e43fff1ce209427cfc5f88d PDF Text Text BAY CITY FAIRGROUNDS ADMISSION: $1.00 CHILDREN 6-12 YEARS $2.00 ADULTS CHILDREN UNDER 6 FREE GRAND ENTRIES 1 P.M. AND 7 P.M. - Saturday, September 1 P.M. - Sunday, September 2f , 20 1986 1986 PRIZE MONEY IN ALL DANCE CATEGORIES DEMONSTRATION - INDIAN ARTS AND CRAFTS - FOOD PUBLIC WELCOME MC: JOHN BAILEY HOST DRUM: HEAD DANCER: JIM & STAR SINGERS DEB KLINE CAMPING AVAILABLE FOR FU~~SER INFORMATION CONTACT: ( .,A/0 A\(Ohol • RED ARROW (517) 866-8171 D..-u~) 11 ,I i ' � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Native American Publication Collection Subject The topic of the resource Native Americans Indians of North America Anthropology Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals Michigan Description An account of the resource Selected digital surrogates of published and unpublished materials from the Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection dealing with different aspects of human culture and anthropology, with an emphasis on Native American people, events, organizations, and activities in Michigan. Includes newsletters, event programs, flyers, posters and other printed materials. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gillis, Edward V. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American Publication Collection (RHC-14)</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-02-21 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Gi-gikinomaage-min Project (Kutsche Office of Local History) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-14 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1958-2000 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection, RHC-14</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-14_black-river-band-pow-wow_1986-09 Title A name given to the resource Black River Band Chippewa Pow Wow, September 1986 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1986-09 Description An account of the resource Black River Band Chippewa Pow Wow flyer, Bay County MI, September 20-21, 1986, collected by Edward Gillis included as part of his Native American publication collection. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Black River Band Chippewa Subject The topic of the resource Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals Indians of North America Michigan Michigan -- Grand Rapids Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b0fcd8405c894c25aa18d0da005b5eec.pdf d88f6cd9a2547269413d994ef6ecb0ae PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Native American Publication Collection Subject The topic of the resource Native Americans Indians of North America Anthropology Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals Michigan Description An account of the resource Selected digital surrogates of published and unpublished materials from the Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection dealing with different aspects of human culture and anthropology, with an emphasis on Native American people, events, organizations, and activities in Michigan. Includes newsletters, event programs, flyers, posters and other printed materials. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gillis, Edward V. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American Publication Collection (RHC-14)</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-02-21 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Gi-gikinomaage-min Project (Kutsche Office of Local History) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-14 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1958-2000 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection, RHC-14</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-14_black-river-band-pow-wow_1987-09 Title A name given to the resource Black River Band Chippewa Pow Wow, September 1987 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1987-09 Description An account of the resource Black River Band Chippewa Pow Wow flyer, Bay County MI, September 19-20, 1987, collected by Edward Gillis included as part of his Native American publication collection. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Black River Band Chippewa Subject The topic of the resource Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals Indians of North America Michigan Michigan -- Grand Rapids Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f8774604fc0b6788806fddf998910aee.pdf 15c63c41080f09464cb9549b33997f34 PDF Text Text B l ack River Band Chippewa Pow Wow Sept. :16 8 :17, :1989 Bay County Fairgrounds S at. 8 Sun. 2 p.m. Grand Entry -� Prize Money for all Categories Food Booths Cralt s Traders Welcome FOR INFORMATION CALL EARLY BIRD - (616) 937-5703 (AFTER 7 P.M.) RED ARROW - (517) 866-8171 S3 S2 S2 SS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THEFT OR INJURY. No ADULTS SENIOR CITIZENS CHILDREN WEEKEND PASS DRUGS & ALCOHOL ALLOWED. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Native American Publication Collection Subject The topic of the resource Native Americans Indians of North America Anthropology Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals Michigan Description An account of the resource Selected digital surrogates of published and unpublished materials from the Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection dealing with different aspects of human culture and anthropology, with an emphasis on Native American people, events, organizations, and activities in Michigan. Includes newsletters, event programs, flyers, posters and other printed materials. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gillis, Edward V. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American Publication Collection (RHC-14)</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-02-21 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Gi-gikinomaage-min Project (Kutsche Office of Local History) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-14 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1958-2000 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Source <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection, RHC-14</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-14_black-river-band-pow-wow_1989-09 Title A name given to the resource Black River Band Chippewa Pow Wow, September 1989 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1989-09 Description An account of the resource Black River Band Chippewa Pow Wow flyer, Bay County MI, September 16-17, 1989, collected by Edward Gillis included as part of his Native American publication collection. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Black River Band Chippewa Subject The topic of the resource Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals Indians of North America Michigan Michigan -- Grand Rapids Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a8a2449cff4068ea7789db01dffeff10.mp4 abc78a23cecab8176759540eb22b1479 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/26c0b64bf996250c6c8863e91e5abf3d.pdf 6b1fef1e8401eeed390436e5f412d0ba PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Bob Blackwell (58:17) I am Charlie Collins. My wife Carol and I spend many hours a month volunteering at the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans. We do this for the Masonic Service Association. Do to the cooperation of the Grand Rapids Community Meeting Center and the Michigan Military History Museum, we have been recording stories of people whose lives have been affected by WWII. We then take them to the Michigan Military History Museum and also send them to the Library of Congress. The following is a result of our efforts. What is your full name? Robert Blackwell. I was born in Buffalo, New York, and my father was with the Veteran’s Administration and we moved around quite a bit. So I went from there to Northampton, MA, and then about 1938, he was transferred to Prairie Point, MD. Then I went to high school in a little town north of there. The high school has been washed away by flood since then. It was called Port Deposit. It is on the Susquehanna River. Then about that time my father was selected to go to southern Ohio to be the regional representative for the GI bill. So he would approve and inspect anyone who wanted to teach veterans and get reimbursement from the government, he would have to do the inspection. Anyhow that is where I had graduated from high school in Maryland. I went back there and I wasn’t 18 yet. I was there for probably a month and I work at different things. I did mechanical drawings and so on like that. You graduated from high school in what year? 1943. So you would have been born in 1925 then? Yeah. That makes me 79 now. What was your reaction when you first heard about Pearl Harbor? (2:33) Well…I was sitting in the side yard at the house in Maryland and I heard about it and I thought, I didn’t even know where Pearl Harbor was…of course….like a lot of people did. The lady from next door whose son had gone in for one year…they had drafted him for a year. So she was very afraid that her son was going to be involved with that. He never was, but anyhow, I was very shocked. I took everything what President Roosevelt said very seriously which most of the country did. Now in your school did you participate in things like “scrap metal drives? �No, because there wasn’t any war yet. Oh….I am getting a little head of myself…… (laughing…that’s okay.) I was just graduated the same year as the war started. . So were you drafted into the Army? No, I was in Dayton, OH, at the time with my parents and I saw the recruiting for the air force [Army Air Corps} and of course Wright Patterson field is right there in Dayton, and so I went out and made inquiry, and the fellow said, “well, here is an application.” He said, “Why don’t you apply for the Air Force before they draft you?” So I applied when I was 17 and then as soon as I was 18, they started giving me tests for the mental and the physicals and then they told me I passed and I was going to be a cadet. This is a pilot cadet for flight training? Yes. I went from there to …..well they helped me out….you know….they told me where I was going to go and so on like that. Then in October, they told me to report to Ft. Benjamin Harrison in Indianapolis and from there they sent me to Jefferson Barracks, MO, where I had basic training. What year is this? 1943 And Jefferson Barracks is near St. Louis? Yeah…Yeah….just south of St. Louis. How long was your basic training in those days? (5:39) Six (6) weeks. Then they took you and you became a cadet and then they gave you some more basic training beside that. Even though you were going into the Air Force, you went through regular Army basic training just like a infantryman would? Right. Most of the training officers were infantry people. So when you got through with basic training what happened after that? After basic training, they gave me a ten (10) day leave and I went home and then they had to report to Las Vegas, NV, where I went to gunnery school out there. By the time basic training was over, they told us all that we were going to go to the infantry except �some of us were going to go into air crew training. Either be a navigator, bombardier, or gunner. When did they cancel your orders for flight training? Just after the six (6) weeks….or just before the six (6) weeks …probably four (4) or five (5) weeks. What was the reason for the change of orders? (6:48) Well..they had recruited enough and had enough in training. They didn’t have any more training facilities. That had it pretty well planned out though. Tell us what Las Vegas was like…everybody thinks of the big city that it is now of 700,000 people, the casinos and stuff….it wasn’t like that in 1943 was it? No….it was more like Muskegon. Oh…not a very big city….maybe 30,000 or 40,000 people. Wasn’t even that big, I don’t think. We only got into town once or twice. Were you stationed at what is now Nellis Air Force Base? I can’t think was the name of the base was…..weren’t there several bases out there? There might have been in those days….Nellus is the big one right now…just north of Las Vegas. (8:06) Yeah…they had gunnery school. They had ball turret gunners, top gunners…you know…simulators…..and the actual equipment was there, but you just shot it with a camera. Then to teach you that there was a certain amount of trajectory in shooting from a moving plan to another moving plane. So they put us in the back of pick up trucks with shot guns and then drove us past a skeet range. They would launch the skeets that we were suppose to shoot them with a shotgun from the pick up truck while riding along. Now have you ever done any hunting prior to all this? No…..I had a .22 but that was it. Okay so this was quite a change for you…..like you say….leading the target. Just learning the basics. I didn’t have any idea how a machine gun worked. �One of the things they taught you of course was how to strip down a guns, prepare them and maintain them. Yeah…. A .50 caliber gun is a big piece of machinery. Yeah…it was really quite simple. How long was this school again….six (6) weeks? It was about ten (10) weeks. From there were you assigned to a flight crew then? (9:52) No…I was assigned to a …..I went to Lincoln, Nebraska and they assigned us to crews. They made up crews there….like the pilots that had finished training, and they were available. The co-pilots and bombardiers…they were all in a big pool there and they would draw names and make crews out of them. Okay…so you were just assigned a crew by lottery? Uh…huh. Ok…I have heard other stories…you know…this is in the British Air Force. A bunch of them just got together and they went around and met each other and kind of….”Would you like to join our crew…” sort of thing. Not that I was aware of it. How man men were in your crew …..? I think there were ten…….no….eight (8) people. What was your specific duties? (10:55) At that time when they assigned us from Lincoln, NE, we went for training…we pick up a plane there and went for training to Ardmore, OK. There was a air base there….Gene Autry….I don’t know if you remember him, a cowboy…..he had donated most of his ranch because it was nice level ground to the Air Force….well, he leased it out to them for training and they built training facilities there. That is where they assigned me to the ball turret gunner. Ahhh. Could you tell us about the “ball turret gunner” for people that are not familiar with the design of a B17. �Well…it is really….it is kind of like sitting in the fetal position…..with your feet up which controlled the aiming of the gun. Oh…..so your feet operated pedals? Yeah…like that….that would operate part of the thing and then the other part ..the contraption over your head which two (2) little handles, you would turn it “right” to turn the ball right and left…..down…up… What did your foot pedals control….does the control like the ……… That controlled the “aiming device”. See the gun site was an optical configuration that had projected on it various images….lines…and it had lines like this…..which you could control by turning the ball turret up or down….. Oh….I see. (13:10) Then they would have the horizontal which you could control this way also. But as far as what was in that parameter, you had two (2) lines which you would frame the particular object that you are shooting at so it would frame it in the gun sight and then when you got it in the gun sight you would press the trigger on the top of the gun….on top of the handles and the two (2) .50 caliber machine guns which were right there by your shoulder would start shooting. Okay….I didn’t know they worked that way. It sounds like it requires good….exceptional hand and eye coordination because you are working with your hands and feet and trying to get oriented and every thing….it requires a great degree of manual dexterity. Yeah. How did you come to be assigned to the ball turret? Actually I was the lightest one. At that time I weighed 140 lbs. I was tall but that didn’t seem to bother anybody. Not only that…I was the youngest and they intimidated me….(laughing) I was kind of wondering about that because you are…..in terms of height…about 5’8” or so and …? At that time I was probably 5’ 11”. That is awful tall for a ball turret gunner. Usually they have men probably about 5’4” or 5’ 5”. Yeah…..Yeah….. �Because it isn’t a very big space to get in to. I said that we were in a fetal position. As you get in…you would have a curvature to the back and then there was a little platform that you sat on. The back of the ball turret gun was armor plated. The seat was armor plated. Under the seat were the valves that controlled your oxygen, and also the relief tube was under there too. So did is seem kind of scary? You’re riding in the bottom of the airplane and you look down and there is something like 20,000 feet underneath you. (15:38) You know I have never been very afraid of heights until now (laughing)….the other day I was on top of …….oh…yeah…I had just came back from Saipan…anyhow there was a hugh mountain there and there is a huge cliff there. There is also a look out at the top of the mountain, and I looked down and ……I have never been bothered with heights before…but….that wow…….Now is that because I am older (laughing) or I am not smarter. Yeah…it could be that when you are young you’re kind of …..you do things that when you look back when you get older you wouldn’t do…….you think “I must have been nuts” (laughing) I really think I thought I was indestructible at the time. So when you were in Oklahoma your crew kind of went through training and kind of melded into a team that everyone knew what their job was? (16:52) Yeah….It was mostly for the air crew…the pilots and co-pilots, and bombardiers and navigators. Because we would fly from Oklahoma City to ..lets say to….Galveston, Texas, and they would take the bomb sights and pretend they were going to bomb the harbor or do something like that, but the navigator had to get us there correctly and everything like that. The rest of us just kind of sat. How long would you be in a ball turret on a mission like that….about four (4) hours or so? Probably five (5) or six (6) hours. Were you pretty stiff when you got out of that? I don’t recall it was. Well, after you got done with your training in Oklahoma, what happened then? �(17:50) They sent us to, I think it was, Kearney, Nebraska, and from Kearney, Nebraska, they gave us a new plane. We flew from there to Maine and then to Goose Bay, Labrador, and then Goose Bay, Labrador to Iceland, then Iceland down to Scotland. Alrighty….I guess that is how they carried most of the aircraft over there. (18:29) And to tell you how naive I was. When I was in Iceland, it was in July now, ….July 1944, I was there, and the crew people said, “Bob, why don’t you take the first shift to guard the plane out here on the runway?” The plane had to be guarded. So he says, “You do that until it gets dark.” (laughing)….it does not get dark in Iceland (laughing) and about 4 o’clock in the morning…I couldn’t figure out …..why the sun started to come up again (laughing). They pulled a fast one on you (laughing) Oh they did. They were in town…they were in the officer’s mess having a few drinks….and the men were just having a good time. I bet they didn’t pull that one on you a second time. No….no. (19:41) Then from there I went to Scotland and then they sent us for further training….well mostly the crew went for more training. So what unit were you assigned to ultimately? The 487th Bomb Group…336 Bomb Squadron. They were stationed at Lavenham. What part of England is that then? It is East Anglia….is that how you pronounce it? It was north of Norwich and south of Burry St. Edmunds….that area. That whole area of course was all airfields if you ever look at the maps. In fact of the people, the military historians and collectors, I think there is five (5) of us that were within ten miles of each other. That is amazing when you’re on a mission, how you find your own base. Yeah…(laughing) that is why they’re the navigators……. So you weren’t too far from London then. You could catch a train to London when you had off. �(21:18) Yeah…when you could get a pass. My first trip to London was really an “eye opener”. I got there during one of the last German air raids, and there was all kinds of destruction around. We’ll talk more about London in a little while then. This takes you to July 1944. You’re assigned to your first operation unit. What was your first mission like….your first combat mission? I don’t really remember, but I remember…..see D-day had happened in June. We were there in July ….so they had advanced up to the beach about to St. Lo toward Cherbourg and they were going for the Netherlands. My first mission, I believe, was to bomb the hell out of St. Lo because the Army just couldn’t get through there. The Germans had it so fortified. I know this must have been the mission where they sent the heavy bombers over to carpet bomb the area to enable the army to break out of the hedgerows. Yep….. Did you see any enemy opposition when you were on that mission? Well…there was “flack” of course. Oh…anti-aircraft fire. Yeah. Did that get anywhere close to your aircraft or were you flying above it? No…….it was right around us. What else did you do while flying this mission…do you remember? Well…we had several missions there and then we went to Germany, the Ruhr and the Ruhr Valley which is heavily “flacked”. Okay…that is what I was getting at. (23:29) Then the crossing from England to Germany, we went a crossed to Holland which the Zuider Zee had huge “flak”…almost a curtain. So they started shooting at you as soon as you got over there then. Yeah…as soon as we got across. �Can you tell us what the preparation was for a mission. When would your day start? Okay….they would probably wake you up about 3 a.m.., or 4 a.m. So in the middle of the night you’re starting to get ready….. (23:58) Yeah….and then you go have breakfast, and then you got down and sometimes you would go get your equipment and take it to the plane and then come back, but most of the time you would go to the briefing room where they had this huge map projection on the wall of Europe and then they would have different color yarns going from our base to where we would be going. So you could see where you were going. Whether you were going to go to the Ruhr Valley to get to this point or whether you were going to go to this place to get to Berlin or whether you were going to go some place else. Anyhow….they had this behind a big curtain. When they would draw that curtain back, all the crews were sitting around waiting to find out where they were going and then there would be this huge “AAAAAAAHHHHH!....not that again….you know….”hey!! this is a milk run”…..(laughing) There was no inkling before pulled the curtain back for you? No rumors running around like you were going to be going to Berlin? Nope…..Well, you know they had pretty good security. Were there certain targets like you ever dreaded to go to…or were kind of considered easier targets? No…. Or was all of Germany pretty much a “tough” target? Berlin was hard. Of course they had protected it very well. Did you fly any missions to Berlin? (25:54) Two(2). I went to Peenemunde where the rockets were being tested. Oh yes…in the Baltic…off the Baltic coast. Yeah….that was very well protected. But the idea was to try to bomb their preparations so they couldn’t get going on their operations. But by then they had already developed a rocket that was going to London. Oh yeah…this was a V-2….the developed the first ballistic missile. �Then of course they had the “buzz” bomb had been developed there too. I didn’t know it until later that they were also working on an atomic bomb, and we knew that. Oh…so that is one of the reasons why we started our own program then….we had to beat the Germans before they got theirs. (26:52) Yeah….yeah…. After you have had your briefing, you went out to your aircraft then? Yeah…yeah….we would get our flight jackets, electric underwear……. Electric underwear???? (27:18) Yeah…I had to have it because I was a ball turret gunner because I couldn’t take real bulky fleece lined…… Oh yeah…you see the old leather jackets with fleece lining…I guess there were trousers and boots like that also. Yeah…mine was just a jumpsuit with an electric suit over the top of it. I can’t remember….I think it was like electric underwear, and then you put the jumpsuit on over the top of that, and you could put a light jacket on. You have people today think it is like today’s airlines…comfortable and 72 degrees and it wasn’t like that….flying in a B-17. No it wasn’t (laughing) What was it 50 or 60 degrees below zero up there? Yeah..about that. Of course the radio room would be heated. There was a certain amount of heat blowing in to the waist position. I don’t think there was anything into the “tail gun” position, but there was for the bombardier and navigator, engineer and the crew up front….that was pretty comfortable. So how many aircraft would a group send out on a mission? You know I was trying to think of that the other day. I think…probably forty (40)….35 or 40. Then you would form up with other groups to go over your targets. You might have three or four hundred aircraft then? (29:00) Right. �Or we would all go over as a big group for protection and then break off into like an airfield and the other one would go to the railroad yard. Oh I see. At this stage of the war, did you have fighter escorts? Well…just as I got there they started having fighter escorts. The B17s took very heavy losses earlier in the war because they didn’t have fighter escorts and with the heavy armament they weren’t able to defend themselves completely. Yeah…but they did a helluva good job without it before. Yeah…they called them flying fortresses because all the machine-guns you had….two (2) in your turret and how many others were on it? Two waist gunners…ahhhhh ….top turret, bottom turret…the navigator had one on each side and the bombardier had the one. So you had ten (10) or twelve (12) machines guns….that is a lot of fire power. See now just to show the importance of fighter escorts. The time when I was shot down…… You were shot down? (30:31) Yeah….how that happened was the Germans could detect that we had missed our fighter escorts. They knew where the fighter escorts were going to take off. I mean their intelligence was amazing. They knew where they were going to take off, and then they could track that on their radar and find out if they were on time or late or whatever. They found out they were 20 minutes late, and we were early ….so they just immediately, within ten minutes, they had their planes up and in formation and were attacking us. In that short gap…. And they had used a different technique then they had before….they used what they called “a company front attack” which would be like spraying the whole formation with machine gun fire. So you would get a line of German fighters…maybe 25 or ….. (31:46) Yeah…..would be like eight (8) or ten (10) fighters down here, another eight (8) or ten (10) up here, and then the course of formation was pretty tight so they would shoot at the whole thing rather than individual planes. �And of course you were coming in head on at each other…… Oh….no ….they came up in the tail which is the soft spot. Oh from behind….okay…I see……because you just have the “tail” gunner covering the rear and the ball turret……. Yeah and then the ball turret gunner and the top turret gunner was getting some too. Tell us about this mission that you were shot down on. Which mission was it? What was your target that day. (32:35) Well, my pilot decided that he wanted to become a “lead” crew. Now there are different formations and they have different “lead” crew with the one that was ahead of the formation, and then they took turns leading the whole group. In this particular one…they had been a “lead” crew for two (2) missions. Because it was a “lead” crew, they replaced the ball turret with a radar turret so they could read the formation underneath. They replaced the “tail” gunner with a co-pilot so he could keep track of the planes behind him, and he could radio to the different pilots….”come on…close it up there…” and he knew all the names of the pilots…..he would call “loosen it up fellows”… like that. Now our captain, my pilot that I went over with became a crew leader and the day that we were shot down, they had an air force general, and I cannot think of his name, and he was riding in the co-pilot’s seat. The co-pilot was of course in the back. I was in a substitute crew that I had never flown with before. So these were all new men. Yeah…they were new. They were people out of the hospital, people off sick leave or people who had just got there….it was kind of a pool that they were taking them out of. They would go into the pool and make up a crew. Now they don’t normally do that. They want you to train together first. But because this was the Battle of the Bulge at that time, December 24, and it was the first good clear day that they had for “sight” bombing, they wanted a maximum effort. In other words, every plane that was in the 8th Air Force that was flyable, they wanted in the air. So you are talking thousands of B17s……. (35:19) Yeah…and our captain was the head of the whole shebang with the general. Oh I see. And we were flying one of the wings in back of him…that is where I was. Now the tail gunner and I had been good friends and of course he was kicked off because the co-pilot took his place in the tail and I was kicked off because of the radar ball so we ended up in the same substitute crew. So I did know somebody in that crew. They were nice guys. �But this was the first time you had ever flown with any of these guys? Yeah…. (36:14) Anyhow, the Germans came toward us and I noticed that they shot down two (2) or three (3) bombers….and we still didn’t have our fighter escort. Then they came around and made a tight turn and came in again from the back in a “company” formation and doing this and I noticed that our tail gunner, I think, shot down one of their German planes or two (2). Some of them…….you know there were quite a few German planes that were lost….but I don’t know…not nearly in proportion to what we lost. Because they said that when this mission was over…that night at the base, there were, out of all the planes in the base, there were only twelve (12) that came back and landed at that field…….twelve (12) planes…… A lot of them were damaged…… Yeah….a lot of them were damaged and landed at other fields….were shot down….. You see the old movies like Twelve O’clock High….you hear the planes coming and see the men up in the tower count and how many there are…… What sort of damage did your plane take in this attack? (37:43) I don’t remember. I remember that I was down there and I could look out and see that they had hit one of the right engines…I can’t tell you which one. Then I heard from the pilot that it looked like we were going to go down. He said to prepare to “bail out”. I immediately tilted the ball turret up so I could get into the plane, and then I grabbed my parachute. I had my jacket on. I had my parachute harness over top of that. Then you took the parachute which was a front pack. It too was ring side which you hooked to the front of the harness that you war on shoulder and neck. Then I walked over to the tail…or to the door and the radio operator was there, and he would…..I said, “Are you going out?” ….indicating what are you going to do……he yelled, “I can’t go out!!!....”I can’t do it!” Did you have to give him a kick in the rear or push him out? I didn’t have nerve enough to do it. I wish I had now because he never went. He never got out of the plane? Nope…..nope……either that or he landed or did it too late. How many…..was the plane gyrating? No….it was just kind of ….long…..losing altitude to the left. Did all your crew get out? �(34:54) No…the tail gunner….who I thought was trapped back there, and ….I don’t know….but I think the engineer…….no the engineer didn’t make it …but I think maybe one of the bombardiers or the navigator may have made it. Did your waist gunners get out? One of them did…….yeah…….well…because we were a substitute crew, we only had one waist gunner. We didn’t have two. Oh I see. You know one guy would shoot out a side and then go shoot out of the other side. Wasn’t a full ten man crew then……so roughly half of the crew got out. What did it feel like after you got out of the airplane…..you were floating through mid air and the battle going on around you and everything…… (yeah…laughing) of course ….or because I had an electric suit on, I had electric shoes on and my regular GI shoes were beside my parachute, and they were tied together by their laces, and I put those on the harness, and then as I went out, the force of the parachute opening, the shoe just broke off and went down (laughing)….and I was up there 20 minutes because we were at 30 thousand feet….it takes a while to come down. Yeah…it sure does. I didn’t know it took that long. Everything seemed to be so far away. I could see other people in parachutes and I could see them below me. I didn’t see very many above me, but just the ones below me. And I could see the plane disappearing…. Now were you over German territory then? (42:10) Well…if you remember the Battle of the Bulge…..it made a bulge down towards France. We were over part of the bulge that was half in Belgium and half that the Germans held…. So you were in German held territory? Yeah……anyhow I landed on the River that divided the two. I landed in the River which is about like the Rogue River only a little faster….. Only a little colder…. Yeah…I guess…it was December 24…it was very cold (laughing)…… �Quite a Christmas present wasn’t it? (42:58) So I landed in that and as I was coming down, I couldn’t figure out what was going on……the Germans were shooting at me from the ground…(laughing) So anyhow I landed in the river and the Germans came around and started shooting at me, but they got cut off by…….but the force of the water as I came down, I realized that I was going to have to get out of the harness, and I mistakenly unsnapped the one at the weights instead of the ones at the crotch. Now the British had a parachute harness that you just unscrewed that and hit is like that and they would all release….but we didn’t have those…….so anyhow…I ended up as I landed in the water, the parachute filled with water and pulled it away from me so that I was floating down the river feet first being dragged along. Then as I was dragged along, the Germans would take a shot at me, then pretty soon I didn’t hear anything but just the water. Then I was dragged…half underwater and half up. I would keep coming up long enough to get my breath, and I was a pretty good swimmer anyhow. And the parachute was still attached? (44:47) Yeah…then it would inflate….then it would get on a snag or something, then I would catch up to it and start to get out…then it would fill up again. So I got over to a bank and there was a sapling there…about 1 inch….I mean four inches around, and I couldn’t get…I had my hands on it and my legs around it. What I did was to put my legs around it like that….and then the parachute inflated again and pulled me off and broke my ankle. It pulled you off…….. Yeah…(laughing) broke my ankle. Ahhhhh. Geeeeessss (laughing) thank goodness there was some Belgian people downstream who could see my situation and they waded out and grabbed the front of my parachute and dragged it into shore, and they pulled me in after it. So some Belgian civilians brought you ashore then. (45:59) Yeah…then about then, I think, a American jeep came along……I don’t know…I can’t remember how……anyhow I ended up in a small roadside hotel run by the………you know it was behind the lines. So they filled the bath tub up with hot water because my clothes were frozen on me. Oh yeah…in the middle of December…. �Yeah…it was really weird walking along with frozen clothes…..rather chafing also (laughing) (laughing….yeah…) Yeah…they treated me good. They notified the Americans, and they took me to a MASH unit that was just setting up. All the personnel were there, but they were in operation yet. That was Christmas Eve. It as in a church….a Catholic church and they had taken all the pews…….of course a lot of the churches didn’t have pews anyhow…..and they had me go over there, and they had cots in their for the wounded, and I was their first patient. They put me in dry clothes. Wrapped my ankle, and then they all took off for church at midnight, (laughing) and left me……and I remember it was an awful lonesome feeling seeing that “one” votive light on the alter, and thinking, “my God!...you really lucked out”….(laughing) So you were in the Army hospital for …..? (48:11) Oh yeah…and then they didn’t have room for me, and they didn’t have anything set up for a bigger hospital so they turned me over to the RAF, and I went to Brussels and ended up in a RAF hospital in Brussels. What was it like being with the British in the British hospital? Oh…wonderful. For one thing, they treat their NCOs with so much respect. Oh yeah? So you were a Sergeant .... Yeah, I was a Sergeant then so I was put in a private room with another Sergeant. He was from the Royal Air Force, and he had been a courier and he had had a motorcycle accident. (laughing/laughing) …..so he was there, but he was quite a bit older than I was and he had traveled to Brussels before and he had friends there. So quite often, he would take off in the afternoon and go visit with his friends and I would just be in the hospital reading…..so I liked that. So it sounds like you got good care then. (49:30) Yeah…then I got a walking cast on my foot, and that Sergeant fixed me up with one of his uniforms so…(laughing) I was in the RAF for four (4) or five (5) days…I can’t remember…and then they flew me over to Oxford, England to an Army hospital. �How long were you in the hospital for a total before you returned back to duty? Let’s see…..that was December. It was spring. So you were out of the war then for about three (3) or four (4) months. Yeah…I was out of the war for three (3) or four (4) months. I still came back and flew two (2) or three (3) missions after that. Okay…then you get to VE Day. Did you fly any missions….I knew they flew some missions over Holland….dropping food to people and stuff. (50:00) Nope. I did fly one mission….they wanted to photograph all the damage they caused in the Ruhr Valley and they wanted pictures of that. You tell me now…how much time did they have and would they have bothered to look up how much their bomb strikes meant after the war was over. Oh……yeah…there has been quite a controversy how effective the bombing was…I know that. I read stories that the British would bomb at night and of course everything is blacked out and you know…even for a big city like Berlin you might miss. When you photograph it in the daytime…you don’t know whether you did it or the British did it……anyhow……..then that is when I came back to the base and I discovered that Sam wasn’t killed. Sam was ………the tail gunner? Yeah…he was from Youngstown, OH. (51:43) So we had a few drinks together. I wish it had just been a few …(laughing) Oh you had a little to many (laughing)…quite a hangover the next day? Yeah…. So that British beer is quite a bit stronger, I hear. And he was older…..he mother and father were Czechoslovakian but from Youngstown and he was American born, and his brothers were too. He had two (2) brothers in the Air Force and both of them were plane crew members. His brother was shot down over Czechoslovakia. He was flying out of Italy on a B24s, and he was shot down over Czechoslovakia and as far as I know, he was something like 25 miles from where his folks were born…but he was dead. Oh…he was killed…… �Yeah…he was killed. His other brother, I think, was in the South Pacific. Not like “Private Ryan”. They should have taken him out. They should never had let him fly. Yeah…there was a lot of families that had brothers serving in various theatres. (53:06) And maybe…I am not sure, but there is a lot of patriotic families and he wouldn’t have wanted any special treatment. Yeah…it was different. The mood of the country was that everyone was going to do whatever they can to defeat the enemy powers. So being shot down and breaking your ankle and so on, you were entitled to a “Purple Heart”. (53:34) Yeah…yeah. Did you earn any other decorations of war….like Air Medal….or….”Distinguished Flying Cross”.. I got an Air Mdtal….and “Good Conduct” medal (laughing)…. Yeah…like you said, three (3) years of undiscovered crimes…..(laughing) You missed ship but they didn’t catch you…..you know….like when you would go to London. Tell us about the stories when you went to London when you had a pass. Well…that wasn’t a wild town but it was of course a big city with lots of stuff going on. Oh…yeah…wonderful. They loved the “Yanks”. They use to complain a lot that Americans were over paid, over sexed and over here….(laughing) So you would get like and overnight pass or would you get like a whole weekend or like a week’s leave? Sometimes we would get a 48 hour pass. And they didn’t…after the war was over….they didn’t keep real close track of you whether you late coming back if you were like 12 hours late…that was it….nothing more than 12 hours. So if you were late coming back they would give you like extra duty? No…they wouldn’t even notice it. Not unless you told them about it. �Alright. So you were mustered out of the service in…….. (55:06) Oh…I came home on the Queen Mary. Oh really! Yeah…. It was a wonderful experience coming in. Our ship laid off of New York. It got in about midnight and stayed over until about 7 o’clock in the morning and then it came in the East River, pass the Statue of Liberty and a beautiful sunny day. I was at the rail and there were thousands of people there. All the fireboats were there with their big streams and people ….tug boats tooting their horns. It was a beautiful greeting, I’ll tell ya. Quite a home coming then. Yes and being able to see the Statue of Liberty, I like that. It was really outstanding. Can you tell us a little bit about your life after the war? What sort of work did you do after the war and tell us a little bit about your family. (56:57) Well, I took the GI bill and went back to school…..well I didn’t go back to school I enrolled …went to Miami University for three (3) years. Then I worked as an insurance adjuster. How did you end up in Grand Rapids? (56:57) I transferred here. I was hired in Des Moines, IA My wife was from Des Moines …or from Southwest Iowa and I went from Des Moines, they transferred me to Lincoln, NE. At Lincoln, NE, the manager was transferred and there was two (2) of us with the same amount of seniority, and they asked us if we would decide between us which one of us wanted to stay. Well, of course I was from back east, I wanted to go Midwest, at least. So I ended up in Lansing, MI. Is your wife still alive? No…she died fifteen (15) years ago. Oh…so you have been a widower for quite a while. Yeah….I remarried. �Do you have any children? I have six (6) children; five daughters and one son. I have 15 grandchildren. (58:17) You think of the men who didn’t survive the war and all the families that were never started, all the kids that were never born and stuff. You had quite an exciting life, Bob, and very long and healthy life. I started to say that I was in Saipan and I really learned about the battle of Saipan. So if you happened to have someone that was at the Battle of Saipan, let me know, I will bring the maps that he can read and relate to. Somebody in the Marine Corps probably or somebody like that. There were some Army units there too. Bob, I thank you for sharing your experiences with us. Thanks for your service during the war. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Blackwell, Robert (Interview transcript and video), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Blackwell, Robert Description An account of the resource Bob Blackwell served in the US Army Air Corps during World War II. He served as a ball turret gunner on a B-17 bomber with the 8th Air Force in Europe. His account covers his training, experiences in England, and flying missions over northern Europe. During the Battle of the Bulge, his plane was shot down, and he had a narrow escape from the Germans when he landed in a river near the front lines and was rescued by Belgian civilians. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Vanderlinde, Dean M. (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Air Force World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-10-28 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BlackwellB Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/490e1497047331e64d3437312e50baae.m4v 927e1623046c85ddc5c33a69177edc9a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c7dfc7381049ee5a58128fc11b5ebdd3.pdf 15cb008424c9d04bd19243d22c5f4fd6 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University All American Girl’s Professional Baseball League Veterans’ History Project Interviewee’s Name: Maybelle Blair Length of Interview: (00:38:58) Interviewed by: James Smither, PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, September 27, 2009, Milwaukee, WI at the All American Girls Professional Baseball League reunion. Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, May 8, 2010 Born: 1917 Longvale, CA Resides: Palm Desert, CA Interviewer: “ Maybelle, can you start by telling us a little bit about yourself. To start with, where were you born?” I was born in Longvale, California, which is right next to the LAX Airport. Interviewer: “What year was that?” 1927 Interviewer: “Wow, you would never know.” Absolutely not. Interviewer: “At that point, what did your family do for a living?” My father was in charge of a park in Englewood, California. He started it off with the CC Camp and he was very fortunate to get the job and my mother was a housewife. 1:01 Interviewer: “How many kids were in the family?” Two. Interviewer: “Was your father able to keep his job through the thirties?” Yes, absolutely, that’s what saved us because we did go through the depression and we were very, very, very poor. Interviewer: “At what point did you start playing organized sports or even disorganized sports?” Oh, probably when I was about nine years old, because my brother, whom I worshiped and was seven years older than I, loved baseball, so naturally, guess what? Little sister was right behind him and followed him every step of the way and he would tell me to go home, but when the boys needed to have somebody at their batting practice, that was the 1 �time that I could play and I could go and shag the balls, which was very fortunate, I thought.. 1:49 Interviewer: “Did you play in pick-up games and things like that too? Did they let you play at some point?” Oh yeah, when they needed an extra person, guess who got to play and out in right field naturally, but at the time it was fun though. Interviewer: “How did that translate into your playing organized softball? When did you start that?” I started probably playing organized softball, probably in 1942. We had little industrial teams or local teams that they had, I joined that and that was a lot of fun when I was still in—actually grade school I guess. 2:31 Interviewer: “How old were you, do you think, when you started?” Probably twelve. Interviewer: “Did you have a favorite position?” Yes, second base. Interviewer: “Could you turn a good double play?” Oh my, they would hire me today if I was able, but I loved every minute of it, it was a lot of fun and the double play was great. Interviewer: “At this point, whom were you playing against?” Just little local teams, like some market or some department store or something like that. We had little leagues. 3:06 Interviewer: “How would you get to the games?” My father would take me and my brother would go along begrudgingly because he didn’t want to see sister play, it was boring. Interviewer: “Now, at some point do you move up a level in terms of the league that you’re playing in?” Yes, they started opening up a real good semi-pro league in Burbank, California and I was able to go and play in that league. I was real fortunate to be able to do that and that was quite exciting for me. Interviewer: “What year did that start up for you?” Probably 1942 or 43, right in there. Interviewer: “So it was about the same time that the All American Girls League was forming up in Chicago.” 2 �Right, I was still in high school and that’s when that took place. Interviewer: “Were most of the people that were playing in this league about your age or were they older?” Some of them were older, the ones that took off to play in the all American and there were some that were a little younger, both ways, but I was probably one of the youngest. 4:15 Interviewer: “Now you’re playing with this league, how far a field would you travel to play your games now, still local?” All over, and then I started playing with the Pasadena Ramblers and that was a traveling league during the war and we use to go and play the service men and all over the place. We went to San Diego, we went to northern California to all of the forts and all the bases and that was quite a lot of fun because the guy’s got a big kick out of it and we really got a kick out of it and that’s what we actually did, we went to play them and they had planned a trip for us to go overseas to play the teams and at that time the war had picked up and they said no, that it would be too dangerous for us to go, so we stayed home. 5:01 Interviewer: “How does it work? You arrange that you’re going to an army base or a navy base or someplace, how do they orchestrate that and look after you?” What they would do was, they would send a bus after us wherever we were or hire a Greyhound bus or there was another bus line, but I can’t remember what it was at that particular time, and they would charter that for us and take us down. We would go into the barracks where the women were and we would get dressed and all that we had to prepare for and after our ball games they would feed us dinner and the bus would take us home. Interviewer: “Were you playing men’s teams or women’s teams?” Men’s teams, they were all men’s teams. 5:45 Interviewer: “How did the male players react to that?” Well, they couldn’t believe it, that we could beat them. They thought, “oh god we’ll kill these women”, but they couldn’t beat us because they weren’t professional ball players, I mean good ball players, some of them were good ball players, but we would just cream them and when we did, they couldn’t believe it. Everybody in the stands, all the rest of the soldiers or navy or sailors or what have you, would just scream and holler at them, “you sissy, you can’t catch”, you know it was really fun. 6:18 Interviewer: “Now, the All American Girls Baseball League, they had their skirts and all this kind of stuff. What kind of uniforms did you have?” We just had shorts and a top and pants also. It was generally satin in those days that we all wore and that was a lot of fun. 3 �Interviewer: “It was better for sliding into base.” Absolutely, you would get strawberries and that didn’t feel too good. Interviewer: “Did you would still get strawberries even with the satin?” Absolutely, they even had little sliding slides that we had. They had it. Interviewer: “Now was the softball played with a sort of regulation size baseball field or a smaller field?” A regular softball field, and don’t ask me the size of the bases because I can’t remember that far. 7:04 Interviewer: “Are the distances a little bit shorter than baseball or longer?” Much shorter. Interviewer: “So in that way it was similar to what the All American Girls League was when they started out, when they played shorter dimensions.” Absolutely. Interviewer: “Now, in softball were you a good hitter?” A very good hitter and that was one of my strong points. I was a good hitter and I had a strong arm. Interviewer: “As a hitter did you hit line drives or long flies?” Line drives and I could whack the heck out of that thing and it was a lot of fun. I enjoyed it. Interviewer: “When you were with the Pasadena Ramblers, what was the farthest away from home you traveled?” Probably three hundred miles, north California and San Diego from Los Angeles. Interviewer: “They weren’t sending you out into the Midwest or anything like that?” No, no, no, just the California area, but we hit from northern to southern. Interviewer: “As you were doing this, did you have any kind of regular job at the same time or was the team your job?” I was in high school. 8:15 4 �Interviewer: “You were in high school and were you mostly playing in the summer when you sere out of school or would they take you out of school to go on these trips?” It was during the summertime, during our summer vacation. My mother wouldn’t let me out of school, period, no matter how I begged. Interviewer: “Now, how long were you playing in that league?” I was probably there until 1946 or 1947 when the scout saw me, the Chicago scout saw me and wanted me to come and play professional softball in Chicago. 8:51 Interviewer: “So there is professional softball in Chicago, was there a league up there?” Oh yes, a wonderful league up there, a strictly softball league and we played in the Chicago area and it was the best part of my life. Interviewer: “They were scouting the California league you were in, so the scout says, “you want to come up and play?” did you have to go and clear it with your parents?” Oh, are you kidding, that poor guy went through the fifth degree I’ll tell you, I felt sorry for him. My mother was just a---every question she could think of and he promised and promised to take good care of me and all I would have to do is put me on the train and he would pick me up at the other end. 9:41 I would have to write home so often or call home and that was guaranteed and he saw to it that I did. Interviewer: “Had you ever taken a long train trip like that before?” The first time in my life, I couldn’t hardly go to Englewood, California we were so poor, we didn’t have any money, so that was my very first trip outside of California. Interviewer: “Do you remember how long it took?” Probably a day and a half or two days on a train, I can’t remember, but it was exciting. 10:14 Interviewer: “When you got up to Chicago, what did they do with you?” Well, they met me at the train and they took me to a hotel and I was scared to death because I was there all by myself and I had never been by myself, so I pushed the dresser up against the wall and got me four baseballs and a bat and dared anybody to come in my room. It was really something, I was scared to death and I called my mother and she said, “I can’t afford this, get off the line”, so I had to cut the conversation pretty close, but oh my god I was scared. 10:49 I told them, “I can’t do this any longer, I can’t sleep, I can’t do anything”, so two days later I got my roommate in from Missouri, a gal, and we 5 �became very, very good friends and I was thrilled to death when she came, so she was my roommate during that period. 11:09 Interviewer: “Was there a specific team that you were assigned to then?” My assignment was with the Chicago Cardinals and it was a nice team and we had a real good team. Interviewer: “Now, did each team have their own home park or were their certain parks that everyone played in?” Everybody had their home park. Interviewer: “What was yours?” Except for our, that was the only on that didn’t, excuse me. We played at Bidwell Stadium and Bluebird Park, which Charlie Bidwell owned and his son now runs the Chicago Cardinals and there were several others. Interviewer: “They are the Arizona Cardinals these days.” Yes, the Arizona Cardinals, excuse me. 11:57 Interviewer: “There was a Chicago Cardinals football team.” Well, that’s the same one. They came out here and are now the Arizona Cardinals and that’s what he owned. Interviewer: “Did they pay you much of anything?” Oh yeah, I was rich, I made sixty dollars a week and my gosh, I had money that wouldn’t end. I was going to save it and go to college like a lot of us tried to do and I sent some home to my mother. I was a rich girl because the hotel room was only seven dollars a week at that time. 12:24 Interviewer: “What did they do in terms of chaperoning you or were you just on your own?” Out manager was responsible for us, he and his coaches, and they watched out for us. They did watch me very closely I’ll tell you, I was bad, I was bad. Interviewer: “Did you get yourself in trouble?” I was always in trouble having a good time that was my problem. I loved everybody. Interviewer: “What were the games like in this league?” 6 �They were wonderful, absolutely wonderful and we had some fantastic ball players like you see the Olympic teams today, that’s how our softball teams played ball exactly. Interviewer: “Was it a higher level of ball than you played in California or close?” Pretty close, but it was a higher level because they took the best ball players from each of the teams because they would scout and take them back to Chicago and that’s what happened. 13:26 Interviewer: “You’re playing and how long did you play for them?” I played there in 1947 and in the latter part of 1948 is when I hurt my legs and I couldn’t move and that’s when I was signed by Max Carey to go and play in the All American League. Interviewer: “All right, explain how that happened.” Oh god, like I said, I was at Parache Stadium and I was out showing off thinking---I was a show off for some reason and I could never understand that, but anyway, I pretended I was a major league pitcher out there throwing the softball and I could throw a curve and I had a good arm, so after I through showing off this guy comes up to me and said, “Maybelle would you mind coming over here I want to talk to you for a minute”, and I said, “no, of course not” and I went wobbling over and he said, “how would you like to go and play for the All American?” I thought for about two seconds and I said, “sure why not, I can’t do anything, but I don’t want to play anything but pitcher”, and he said, “that’s what I want you for”, and I thought, “pitcher, I never played pitcher before, but I’ll go”. 14:36 Well anyway, they signed me and I got in my car, I had a car at that time because I had saved my money, and I drove down to Peoria and they got me a hotel and I had a horrible toothache and these two little girls that were great fans went out and got me some toothache medicine and saved my life and anyway to make a long story short, I started pitching. 15:09 I was there for maybe a month and first of all he had me go out—he called me into the game, “Hey Maybelle come in and pitch”, and I said, “oh”, and here I come dizzy Dean herself is walking out there, so I was out there and somebody was on first base, I don’t know who it was, but I think it was Sophie Kurys. I wound up I’ll tell you, I wound up for forty minutes and by the time I got through unwinding that runner was on third base you know not knowing I forgot all about it that I had a runner on and that was the fun of it, I had a lot of fun. 15:49 They started bunting me because they found out I couldn’t move. Interviewer: “Ok, sort out your baseball career a little bit. How long were you with the team before they put you in, was it a month?” It was actually about a week and a half before he put me in and he kept me around for courtesy’s sake I guess for another couple weeks and then he called me in his office and he said, “I hate to have to tell you this, but I’m going to have to release you, but would you please come back next year when your legs are well because we can certainly use you.” 16.27 7 �Interviewer: “So he liked your arm anyway?” Oh yeah, I got a good arm still today. Interviewer: “When you were working out with them, before he had actually put you in the game, did they know you couldn’t run?” No, because I didn’t practice like I was running, I didn’t let them know. I kept it a secret all to myself. Interviewer: “So in the game, when you were playing, did someone try bunting on you to see what would happen?” Well yeah, exactly, because the rumor had gotten through because we had interaction between the leagues because when we were off we would go and visit the other kids and they said, “she can’t run so start bunting for god sake, she can’t move”, which was true. 17:12 Interviewer: “How did you hurt your legs?” Running. And I didn’t tell him and I was hobbling around there and could hardly run and for some ungodly reason the other leg was pulled and I cannot understand how I got two charlie horses, but I kept those babies for a long time, even after I came home it took quite a while to get rid of it. When I got home from playing ball I was hired by Northrop Aircraft. I wanted to go back and play again, but I had such a good opportunity that I couldn’t do it. This fellow I met was in charge of all traffic at Northrop Aircraft and he said, “I want you to come in, learn the job and I want you to be supervisor in transportation”, and I said, “oh come on, get off of it, I can’t do that”. I told him that and he said, “you have the personality for it, I need to get you in here to get these drivers in order”, and I said, “no, no, no”, anyway I finally decided to do it and I said, “the only way I will do it is if I can learn to drive every piece of equipment we have because I do not want to hear them razzing me or giving me a hard time that you picked the wrong person. 18:27 Anyway, he did and I worked my way up from courier hauling VIP’s all over like generals and presidents, heads of states and what have you all around, to dispatcher and I went on to be supervisor and then I became manager of all highway transportation for Northrop Aircraft. Interviewer: “Tell me a little bit about that courier job. Who were you driving around?” Big time—heads of state from all over the world because at that time we were building the F5 Fighter and we were trying to sell it, so we were selling it to all the different countries for their fleet or air force and I hauled lots of very important people. In fact, Ronald Reagan was one of them and to this day I was thrilled to death about that. He was Governor of the state at that particular time. 19:27 8 �Interviewer: “Were their other individuals whose names stood out as being particularly interesting or unusual people?” Oh sure, General Whitehead who was the head of the Pacific, and what was his name—I loved him, but several of them and I can’t remember right now. Korean generals and it was quite an experience for me. Interviewer: “Were you going into jobs that normally men had been doing?” Yes absolutely, it was all men and then when I became currier there were two couriers ahead of me and both girls. W wore one of those uniforms and I thought I was real cute. I was uglier than sin, but I thought I was cute. Anyway, that’s what we did and that was the only girls in the department and then I went on, like I told you, and became head of the department and one of my jobs was planning routes for the F18 aircraft to get it from Hawthorn Air Force Base to---from Northrop Field to Edwards Air Force Base. 20:45 I would have to go our and survey all of that—take down signs, trees, everything else because we had to get it there because that was going to be our future the F18, so luckily that was a real job and I got that sucker down there. One time when we were going through downtown L.A. because it’s got the wings on it, and this drunk comes staggering out of a bar in downtown Los Angeles he looked and the wing was practically going over his head and he went like this and turned around and went right back into the bar. He wasn’t seeing pink elephants he was just seeing airplanes. I can imagine what he went back in and told them. 21:31 When I got to Edwards Air Force Base it was so exciting because they had laid out the red carpet for me and after we stopped the aircraft and all the people got out, they were playing “off we go into the wild blue yonder”, and I got out of the truck and I couldn’t stand up, I was so weak I fell almost down on my knees, but they caught me, I was so excited, it was quite an honor. Interviewer: “Did you encounter any friction being a woman and going into these positions and telling men what to do?” At first I did, but the problem was is that I knew it very well and I knew what I was talking about and they couldn’t argue with me or try to pull the wool over my eyes and they soon learned that they couldn’t do that to me. I was fair, but I was strict. 22:17 Interviewer: “So the fellow that hired you knew what he was doing.” Apparently, I guess so and also, I planned the route for the B2 Bomber, so I was happy about that too. Interviewer: “Did you have to move that along surface streets too?” Oh yeah, not the whole bomber, but just the cockpit area. Interviewer: “But not the whole thing.” 9 �Oh no you couldn’t. Up at Palmdale they built the wings, but we built the cockpit at our facility and that was great too. I have to tell you too that I played for the New Orleans Jacks, the world’s champions. Interviewer: “Now when were you doing that?” I can’t remember what year that was, but it was while I was working at Northrop. I told my boss at the time, I said, “I have to have a whole month or so off because they are asking me and pleading with me to come and play for them”. I said, “Ok?” he said, “Ok”, so he gave me a month off. 23:11 Interviewer: “How did you get the invitation to play for New Orleans?” Well, they new about me playing back there and they were out here and they needed another ball player desperately, so I said, “ok” and I went and that was fun. Interviewer: “Did you play second base for them?” Second base. Interviewer: “Then where did you go when you were playing with them?” Oh, up through Canada, all through Washington, Oregon, Arizona and California. Interviewer: “Now, was this a point after the All American League had folded?” Yes that was, I would say that was probably down at about 1950 or 1951 maybe and I may be wrong there. 23:55 Interviewer: “It could be, in 50 and 51 the league was still going at that point wasn’t it?” Oh yeah, the league was still going, but I didn’t have time to go back and play ball, I couldn’t do that because I would lose my job and that was more important. Interviewer. “You could take the month and go with New Orleans?” Yes, they each gave me a month. Interviewer: “So you had a chance to go back and play a little bit after the injury?” Yeah, I did and that was fun. Interviewer: “Now, on that particular tour, what kind of crowds did you get?” Oh, fantastic, in fact we stopped at Bakersfield and played the world champion men’s baseball team and we had two sisters on the team known as the Savodas—the best baseball players or softball players or ball players I have ever seen in my life. During batting practice they, both of them, could take batting practice and hit it over the fence 10 �left handed and right handed, no problem, run like deer and throw—you cannot imagine how great they were, the two best ball players that ever lived. 24:52 Interviewer: “You played a men’s championship team, was that a championship softball team?” Softball team yeah. Interviewer: “So you weren’t playing the New York Yankees or something?” No, but during that game that we played them, the men had to pitch from the men’s league and the women pitched from out league distance to the plate and our pitcher was named Lotty Jackson and she stood about six one or two and she had a wind up that you couldn’t even see the ball. Ginny Finch today, I don’t think Ginny Finch is as fast as was this girl and these guys couldn’t hit her and it was so funny, we couldn’t hit him either, let’s face it, anyway he walked me somehow, I probably stood there with my bat on my shoulder and he couldn’t hit the plate, anyway, I somehow got over to third base and this manager we had, Freda Sevoda one of the Sevoda sisters, she said, “pretend like you can’t run”, and I said, “I can run”, and she said, “no, pretend like you can’t run”, and I said, “ok”. 26:00 She took over and what she noticed—we beat these guys and what happened was that the catcher, when he would get the ball sometimes, he would walk to almost where the pitcher was and give him this (a sign) and he would slowly start walking back to the plate, She noticed, that’s how smart she was, well he went out there and he gave a little pitch to the pitcher and she took off like a jack rabbit and slid right under him and we won one to nothing and I think there were eight thousand people out there for that game and they just hoot and hollered and that was really something. 26:35 I never was so tickled in my life. Interviewer: “Did they make any effort to get you to stay on?” They wanted us to come back and play, but we had a schedule and we couldn’t do it and the league didn’t like that at all, not at all Interviewer: “Was that the last time you were playing on organized ball?” Yes, that was the very last time and then I decided to hang it up. Interviewer: “Now, when you were working at Northrop etc., did people know anything about what you had done in the past in these different leagues and things?” During that time they didn’t know because the movie is what made it, if it wasn’t for the movie you wouldn’t have known about the All American Girls, you wouldn’t have known about the professional softball league because actually, they could have taken the softball league instead of the all Americans and made the same movie, but they didn’t, but people didn’t realize that there was two leagues or even one league, especially the western people, the Midwest knew it and in Chicago they knew it, but that was it, the 11 �south didn’t know it, nobody knew it until Penny Marshall decided to make the movie. 27:54 Interviewer: “How did you wind up hooked up with this organization that you played on one team for a short length of time?” They made the movie and they asked me to come and be in the movie, so I was in it when the old timers were at the end and what have you and that was the reason. Interviewer: “Did you know a number of the people who were in the league?” Oh yes, because I played softball with them and baseball and what have you. I have known quite a few of them for years. Interviewer: “At the time you were doing all these things, playing in these leagues or for that matter going into some of your jobs at Northrop, did you see yourself as a pioneer or were you just taking care of yourself?” Nobody did, nobody did until after the movie again. The movie was the making of everybody and even when you mention that you played in the all American or the National league they don’t know what you’re talking about and could care less, now they care, it’s amazing. 29:00 Interviewer: “What do you think of sort of the state of women’s sports today? Do you see yourself as being part of a larger trend?” I think it’s the most wonderful thing in the world, it has given all the girls the opportunity of scholarships, it’s not that they’re going to be great professional athletes, but it gives them the opportunity to go to college and that’s what I’m thrilled about. It gives the girls the opportunity to take the right step in their lives, whichever step that is. They have a choice. And thank God that happened; we’re so thrilled about it. 29:33 Before it was the good old boys and let’s face it, all we were supposed to do is stay home and put on our aprons and have kids. Interviewer: “How do you think your life would have gone if you hadn’t hooked up with organized softball?” What would have happened? I would have probably gone on to college and become a PE teacher. That’s exactly what I would have done. That was my goal in life because I didn’t think there was any chance to go and play professional softball or baseball, but it was there and gosh, how lucky we were, how lucky we were. Interviewer: “Is that what gave you the connections that enabled you to go into Northrop? Did these people know you from that?” No, no, I was in a function or something—I think I was giving a speech—I don’t know what in the world I was doing, anyway he came up to me and he said, “I need you”, and I 12 �said, “what do you mean you need me?” He said, “I’m da, da, da, da, and I want you to come to work at Northrop”, and I said, “well, I’m going to go to college”, and he said, “no, I want you to come to Northrop because I’m going to give you a good job and I’m going to open the door for you”, so maybe he saw something that maybe he thought I was a leader or something, that’s what I thought. 30:54 Interviewer: “If you were at a function and giving a speech, was this somehow in conjunction with what you had been doing already?” No, no I don’t know what the heck I was giving the speech about, I was giving a speech about—heck, I can’t remember what it was, but I was giving a little speech. I don’t know what it was, maybe about going to college—that’s what it was, I was going to go to college and what my career was going to be and what I was going to become, I think that was it. 31:19 Interviewer: “How do you think your time in these organized leagues affect you or change you? Did you grow up some because of this or learn things—that whole experience of going out to Chicago and all of that?” Yeah, it taught me a great deal because I had never even been away from my mother overnight to a girls party or sleep out or go anywhere to visit anybody, that was the first time and I learned a great deal and it was quite exciting and when they say they put the ropes around the suitcases, well I had ropes around my suitcase and I took off. 31:55 Gosh, I thought I was in hog heaven when I landed in Chicago and they picked me up. The buildings wow. Interviewer: “Although there was that part there where you had to barricade yourself in the hotel room when you got there, but the young woman who did that is not the same person exactly that the fellow from Northrop spotted and said, “I need you”, so something happened between there.” Well that was a learning process, absolutely a learning process and It’s not as easy as you think, I figured it out and when I went to Northrop I realized that if I really wanted to make it, I had to devote myself to it and quit being a kid anymore and quit fooling around. I still fool around, but anyway that’s the way it is. 32:43 Interviewer: “Well, it makes for a very good story and thanks for coming in and telling it to me today.” Hey, I hope you appreciate it. 13 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League was started by Philip Wrigley, owner of the Chicago Cubs, during World War II to fill the void left by the departure of most of the best male baseball players for military service. Players were recruited from across the country, and the league was successful enough to be able to continue on after the war. The league had teams based in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan, and operated between 1943 and 1954. The 1954 season ended with only the Fort Wayne, South Bend, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Rockford teams remaining. The League gave over 600 women athletes the opportunity to play professional baseball. Many of the players went on to successful careers, and the league itself provided an important precedent for later efforts to promote women's sports. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-58)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Sports for women World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Oral history Baseball players--Minnesota Baseball players--Indiana Baseball players--Wisconsin Baseball players--Michigan Baseball players--Illinois Baseball for women--United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-10-02 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58_MBlair Title A name given to the resource Blair, Maybelle (Interview transcript and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Blair, Maybelle Description An account of the resource Maybelle Blair was born in 1927 in Longvale, California. Before joining the All American Girl's Baseball League she played baseball with her brothers at the age of nine and then later in 1942 at age twelve began playing organized softball. At about this time she played for a semi-pro league out of Burbank, California and then with the Pasadena Ramblers from 1943 to 1946 who she toured with playing games at army bases for servicemen. Her semi-pro career ended in 1947 when the Chicago Cardinals scouted her and signed her to be a pitcher. In 1948, Max Carey signed her to play on the Peoria Redwings as a pitcher. Due to an injured leg, her career was cut short and she only played a month with the Peoria Redwings. Later, she went on to play 2nd base for the New Orleans Jacks for a month in 1951. Her career ended with them ended when she was forced to choose between playing softball and giving up her job driving VIPs for Northrop Airport; she chose to quit softball. Blair wraps by mentioning how the All American Girls Professional Baseball League changed her perspective on the course of her life. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Baseball for women--United States Baseball Sports for women World War, 1939-1945 Baseball players--Illinois Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-09-26 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-55)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4bd57ce409b37b8e8105f3e3d0ae1056.pdf 0871f6a7b37e8a15b3045a944d02ddc9 PDF Text Text �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Civil War and Slavery Collection Subject The topic of the resource United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Slavery--United States African Americans United States--Politics and government--19th century Description An account of the resource A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lemmen, Harvey E. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1804-1897 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpg; application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Image; Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1804-1897 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-45_CW-4389 Title A name given to the resource Acknowledgement of receipt of letter to A.B. Perry from Montgomery Blair Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Blair, Montgomery, 1813-1883 Subject The topic of the resource Lincoln, Abraham, 1809-1865 United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865 Blair, Montgomery, 1813-1883 Description An account of the resource Acknowledgement of receipt of letter to A.B. Perry from Montgomery Blair, postmaster general in Abraham Lincoln's cabinet. Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Civil War and slavery collection (RHC-45): http://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b448313da33b45dd941ed2266b9fea46.pdf a12ed8039e824e6c18b9a0cd660746f4 PDF Text Text 1 Grand Valley State University Special Collections Kent County Oral History collections, RHC-23 Miss Dorothy Blake Interviewed on September 20, 1971 Edited and indexed by Don Bryant, 2010 – bryant@wellswooster.com Tape #14 and 15 (47:17) Biographical Information Dorothy Stuart Blake, the daughter of William Frederick Blake and Adeline Louise “Alde” Tuck was born 23 July 1889 in Grand Rapids. She passed away at the age of 88 on 4 September 1977 in Grand Rapids. William F. Blake, the son of Increase Blake and Sarah Farnsworth was born 3 May 1851 in Farmington Falls, Franklin County, Maine. He died at his home at 320 S. College Avenue, Grand Rapids on Christmas Eve 1915 and is buried in the Blake Cemetery in Farmington, Franklin County, Maine. William was in the wholesale grocery business and came to Grand Rapids in 1887. Mr. Blake was married 15 March 1881 in Farmington, Maine to Adeline Louise “Alde” Tuck. Alde was the daughter of Dr. Cyrus Dean Tuck and Adeline Lucy Colby. She was born 8 June 1857 in Falmouth, Cumberland County, Maine and moved with her parents to Farmington, Franklin County before 1870. Her death occurred on 29 April 1925 in Grand Rapids and she is also buried in the Blake Cemetery. ___________ Blake: You probably want a limit on time too, don‟t you for each question, or don‟t you? Interviewer: No just, you just talk as long as you want. Miss Blake, it looks as though you‟re in the process of moving, you are in the process of moving from this house. We‟re at three-twenty College South East. How long have you lived in this house? Blake: I have lived here since eighteen ninety-three. Interviewer: Did your family move here? Blake: My family moved up here from the old Warwick Hotel, which later became the Cody, which was later turned into a parking ramp. Interviewer: Was your family living in the hotel at the time? Blake: Yes, and we moved up here I remember there were only two houses on the whole west side of the street, between College, between Cherry and Wealthy. And one house is what I think was called the, the Waddell house, and later was called the Hudson house, which is still standing, �2 and the other house was a dark red brick with a forbidding looking door that looked like a prison door, and Mr. and Mrs. Shaw lived there. They were old people then, and I don‟t remember of course who built the house, or if it was the Shaws or not, but they were living there, at that time. And all the rest of the block was on the east side was a vacant lot, and a cow pasture and an apple orchard, through which I had to walk to go to school, the old Wealthy Avenue School. Interviewer: Where was the Wealthy Avenue School located? Blake: It was, where it is now, only an older building and the entrance was on Wealthy Street, and now it‟s called the Vandenberg School of course, the Wealthy entrance is on Lafayette. Interviewer: Well, were you a child then, when you moved up, how old? Blake: Oh yeah, I was four years old when we moved up here, so… Interviewer: Did your family build this house? Blake: No, it was about, I think this house had been lived in two and a half years. There was only one family that occupied this house before we moved up, and that was the Brouwer family I think. There were three Brouwer boys I believe, Evert O. Brouwer, and Jack Brouwer, and Otto Brouwer was born in this house. Well, they were renting it from father. Interviewer: Well then, then your father did build the house, but he was rented it from somebody? Blake: He bought it. Interviewer: Oh. Blake: And rented it for a couple of years before we moved up. Interviewer: I see, what kind of business was your father in? Blake: He was in the wholesale grocery business, with teas and coffees, as his specialty, which ultimately turned out to be the manager of the tea department for Judson Grocery Company. Interviewer: Had he been born in Grand Rapids? Blake: He was born in Maine, Farmington Falls, Maine. My mother was born in Farmington, Maine. Interviewer: Did they meet each other in Maine? Blake: They met each other when Mother went to Farmington Falls to teach school, they had never met before, they grew up seven miles apart—just a horse and buggy road between. �3 Interviewer: What a, what was the reason they finally moved to Grand Rapids, your father and mother moved here? Blake: He started West, to be the, now you‟ve got me, on going back that far. This is just what, what I heard from them, of course, that he started West, he was a lawyer, at that time, and he started west to be the corporation lawyer for a mining company in Utah. And when he got to Chicago, he was met by a telegram saying that the mine was flooded, and they have to postpone the working of it for a while. Well, it was postponed forever apparently, so father was stuck in Chicago, and that‟s when he, got a wholesale grocery and teas and coffees to work with a cousin of his, who started him out in Chicago. Then later they moved to Grand Rapids. And he stayed in that business instead of in the law. Interviewer: That‟s interesting. Where was this store located in Grand Rapids? Blake: Oh the Judson Grocery Company, gracious, oh, it was downtown. But on what street I‟ve forgotten. Interviewer: Do you remember going to the grocery store as a child? Blake: Yes, and before that to the Worden Grocery Company, was the first one, and father was one of the organizers of that, and then later he joined the Judson grocery. Interviewer: What was downtown like in those days? Blake: Well, I really don‟t know what you mean by that question. Interviewer: How did if differ from today, for example? Or did it differ at all? Blake: Well, we had streetcars, now we have buses. The streetcars were, ran on an overhead trolley. And some of our, well, I don‟t know about downtown, it had its big department stores, Spring Dry Goods Store was one of the best. It had Herpolsheimer‟s, it had Wurzburg‟s. They were early settlers in this neighborhood, too. Interviewer: What was it like growing up in this neighborhood? Blake: Oh, it was very, it was a very happy life, most of it centered around home, of course, and, well most, most of our fun was right here. We played croquet on the back lawn, we packed up picnics and got on the Cherry-Shawmut Streetcar line and went to John Ball Park for a day‟s outing, that was, that was fun. There were some animals there, but, the zoo was not as large as we have now. But there was, that was one of our joys. And another was, on a hot day, get on the Wealthy-Taylor streetcar, for five cents, and ride from one end of the city to the other, on the car to get cool. And one end was at North Park, and the other end of the line was Reed‟s Lake we called it. And Reed‟s Lake was one of the places where we had lots of good times. There were rides on a steamer for ten cents, rides as long as you chose, stay on all day if you wanted to, and we‟d take picnic lunches with us. And there was a, an excellent vaudeville, high class vaudeville, �4 outdoors in the pavilion there, which was one of the things to do if you wanted recreation. Another thing was to hire a team, there used to be a livery stable down on the corner of LaGrave and Wealthy, and father [would] hire a rig and a couple of horses and we‟d pack up a picnic lunch and we‟d drive to Cascade and Ada, where he had some trade in the general stores there so he‟d combine a little business with a picnic spree for us. Interviewer: What kind of a road went from the city here to Cascade and Ada? Blake: I think, now I‟m not sure, I think it was a gravel road. It might have been just plain dirt road, but I can remember as the gravel road, especially the gravel road to Ada. Interviewer: Well, outside of these little excursions around the city, most of your life did center around the home then. Blake: Oh yes. Interviewer: Can you describe to me what your home life, somewhat, what a…? Blake: Well, when we were very small, mother had help that lived in the house, and, one maid would do the washing, the ironing, the cooking, the cleaning, for her board and room, and a, very small amount per week. And then later, when we grew up and had our own tasks assigned to us for housekeeping, mother hired help by the day, a dollar a day was, was for the price for years. And then outside help would do the washing, the wash bench and two tubs and a wringer, out on a big back porch. And she‟d hang it out and she‟d iron it, and then she‟d come another day to do the cleaning. Well, that isn‟t so very different from what we have now except the washers are all automatic. Interviewer: Were there, did your family have many activities with other families in the neighborhood? Blake: Oh yes, there was a wonderful neighborhood. The houses on the east side where I‟m living were all single family houses, except one, there was one, it was a what did you call it, a double house, upstairs and downstairs there were two families. All the rest were single families. We knew every family on the block. And the whole block, especially the older people, the fathers and mothers would get together and have their parties. And sometimes the children would get together and put on a theatrical performance of their own making, and the parents would turn out and pay a penny a piece or so many pins a piece for the privilege of watching our activities. That was fun, homemade fun. The families they were families that stayed put, at least two generations of the same family would be living in the same houses in here. Interviewer: Why do you think that was? Why did the families, for example, would two generations of a family be the same neighborhood? Why was there that, for what reason was there that stability? �5 Blake: I don‟t know. I suppose because they had lovely houses, good homes, they didn‟t care about going away for very long. Interviewer: What do you think changed all of that? Blake: The automobile, and then later the airplane. The automobile did a lot of changing, for better and for worse, too. Interviewer: Was there a, how would you classify in terms of economic position, the people that lived here on south College compared with for example, the people that lived on Jefferson or up on the Hill. Was there a difference? Blake: I don‟t know that there was any particular difference. Jefferson was an avenue of homes too; some very beautiful homes there. Even Sheldon had some beautiful homes. Some of the political parades used to go down Sheldon. People would sit out on their front porches and watch. Interviewer: You were involved in some women‟s suffrage activities. What exactly was your involvement? When did you first become interested in it? Blake: Oh, I suppose when I was a small child, I was indoctrinated with the idea of women‟s rights, after all, I had three sisters, and we were a woman family. And well as a little girl, I did things like selling suffrage newspapers downtown, either inside or outside the store; it was perfectly safe to be on the streets. And soon as I got out of college, I helped with the nineteen twelve campaign, which was a very lively one; Dr. Wishart was the manager of that. And we had an office downtown, and I had an old typewriter that I took down there and did office work for them. And my younger sisters rode in parades, dressed up in the suffrage colors, and with banners and, and pamphlets decorating the floats. Oh, we did so many things I, I think one of my fondest memories was, the one that will always stay with me, was meeting Susan B. Anthony. She was seventy-nine years old when she came to Grand Rapids. We had the national convention here in Grand Rapids in eighteen ninety-nine, and she came, and Howard Shaw came, a brilliant list of people who were present at that, that convention, that lasted for several days. And mother took me to meet Miss Anthony one afternoon. She was a guest at Mrs. John Blodgett‟s house, which had been torn down now, where the Stuyvesant is now. I can remember my impression of her, it as very sweet, gentle, little, old lady who was courteous and treated me just as if I were important. She was, and she signed my birthday book for me, and put the date in it. That‟s one of my fond memories. The next year she was unable to travel, I believe, and it wasn‟t too long after that than she passed away. Interviewer: Why, why did they hold the national convention in Grand Rapids, was a, how did Grand Rapids happen to be chosen? �6 Blake: Grand Rapids just simply went after it and insisted that they come here, and they said they always met in Washington, D.C. and they fought coming here, but finally, the men were on the job too, there was a very strong men‟s suffrage at work with Dr. Wishart on the job too. Interviewer: Who was Dr. Wishart? Blake: Oh, he was the minister at Fountain Street Baptist church, very prominent man, nationally prominent. And then all of the, the Chamber of Commerce I think they called it then, the Men‟s Chamber of Commerce went after it tooth and nail, they just worked for it, offered lots of things, lots of inducements to the women if they would hold their national convention in Grand Rapids. And they finally won out, they did all sorts of things for them, the St. Cecilia was the auditorium where they held their meetings. The Warwick Hotel was their headquarters, and some of the delegates of course were entertained in private homes. But that was a great feather in the suffrage cap of the nation, because always they had before and after, at least, held their meetings in Washington. Interviewer: Were many women in this neighborhood, in the Hill District, the Hill area, involved with women‟s suffrage at that time? Blake: All of them that I knew were. But I don‟t know that I can name them, but it was a very homogenous neighborhood. Interviewer: Was there any reaction by the men against the, the women‟s demand for rights, equal rights? Blake: Very little, in fact the men did as much for us as we, at that particular convention, as we could. We, both men and women, went all out for that, to bring that convention here to Grand Rapids. Interviewer: Would women in the Hill District that were associated with, what was the name of your group? Did you have a name for your organization or… Blake: Well, there was the National Women‟s Suffrage organization, and then there was the State Women‟s Suffrage organization, and I suppose there was the Grand Rapids Equal Suffrage Club. Interviewer: Would there be meetings held at different women‟s home and one thing or another, did you have regular meetings? Blake: Oh, well, those would just be committee meetings, the, the big meetings were held in halls like St. Cecilia‟s. That was one of the favorite places, the size and the, of course the building itself has wonderful acoustics. Ladies Literary Club was another place where important meetings were held. At that convention, as well as others, the Ladies Literary Club was open too. Interviewer: Did the Ladies Literary Club have a regular clubhouse? �7 Blake: Oh, yes, they, they had their own clubhouse, owned it, one of the first in the country to build and own their own clubhouse. The St. Cecilia was another, it was the first musical organization to build their own clubhouse, and own it. Both those buildings were very much used in that era. Well, they still are. Interviewer: Were they important social organizations? Blake: Yes, they were both leaders in their own field. St. Cecilia in the field of music and the Ladies Literary Club in the well, the field of general culture and literary work particularly. I remember meeting Woodrow Wilson at the Ladies Literary Club. President Taft was there at one time, I think he was the only president who was, [who] came to the Ladies Literary Club, during his presidency. Interviewer: Came here to Grand Rapids? Blake: Yeah. To speak a the Ladies Literary Club, I think that while he was president, I think he‟s the only president who ever did and it was Mrs. McKnight who got him to come. Interviewer: How did she induce him to come? Blake: She could, she could, I don‟t know how to put it, she could induce almost anybody to, to come to Grand Rapids, if she thought it important, Interviewer: Who was Mrs. McKnight? Blake: Oh, well she was President of the Ladies Literary Club, she was one of the organizers and Presidents of the “Alliance Française”, the French Club in Grand Rapids, she was a great authority on are, she was a great traveler, European traveler, visited all the important places in Paris, and came home and gave talks on it. She was one of the, one of the, shall I say social; another adjective would be better, leaders in Grand Rapids, social, educational, and cultural leaders in Grand Rapids. Mrs. William F. McKnight. Interviewer: Was there, what was it what happened when Taft came? Did the city celebrate or put on any big festivities? Blake: There must have been but I don‟t remember. I probably was in school. No, I wouldn‟t have been at school because he came on a Saturday, I remember that much. There probably was a parade, I don‟t remember, that fact I cut out, but I can remember seeing him. Interviewer: What did you do after you got out of college? Did you spend most of your time in suffrage work? Blake: I stayed home that one year, and worked through the campaign of nineteen twelve, but that was the Michigan Campaign, and then after that I taught school. �8 Interviewer: Where did you teach? Blake: I taught in Hesperia for two years; I taught in Lowell for three years; I taught in Union High School, Grand Rapids, for thirty-four years. That was an ideal school to teach in, perfectly delightful. Interviewer: Union, Grand Rapids Union High School? Blake: Yeah. Interviewer: What was considered the, the best high school in the city? Blake: That was. Interviewer: Grand Rapids Union? Blake: And it wasn‟t because I taught there either. It a, we got that said, of course we, we teachers, we had a good, a very good staff there at Union, and we all enjoyed our work and we had good material. Our material was a melting pot; all sorts of nationalities were represented in, in the student body. And the various teachers who did supply work, in all the high schools, there were five high schools before I finished teaching, there was just one when I went to Central High School, but when I, when there were five high schools and supply teachers had experience in each one of those high schools, they said without question that Union High school was the best, or that they enjoyed it the most, put it either way. Interviewer: Central High School was the high school for the Hill District, wasn‟t it? Blake: Yes, and that was the first full high school. That is twelve, had all four high school grades, ninth, tenth, eleventh, and twelfth grades. Interviewer: Didn‟t Union? Blake: Union at different times had a different setup, as to grades. Now at one time, while I was teaching, they had everything under one roof at Union, from the kindergarten up through the twelfth grade, and an automobile repair shop, all in the same building. And I think the later years that I was there, they began with the seventh grade, and that‟s what they call junior high, and senior high, seventh, eighth and ninth were junior high: tenth, eleventh, and twelfth were senior high. And of course now they use different names, middle school and so on. But ours were junior and senior high. That was after Union had such a large enrollment that they couldn‟t have the kindergarten grades in there anymore, so they went over to Harrison Park. Interviewer: Did Union at one time serve as I understand it, they had three grades in the High School, and then for the senior year students would transfer to Central. �9 Blake: At one time. That was back before… that lasted up until nineteen six, I believe, when there was just one graduating class in the whole city. And that was from Central. In Nineteen six, I can remember that the tenth graders, the twelfth graders, had to come over from Union and take their work in Central. And after that, they added the twelfth grade to Union. Interviewer: Were you very active in the Ladies Literary Club? Blake: No, in fact I was not a member… Interviewer: Oh, Blake: My mother was very active and she often took me as a guest when she could to the… Interviewer: Is she one of the ones that help found the club? Blake: I don‟t know, I don‟t think so but it must have been pretty nearly as early as that because it wasn‟t a very old club at the time. Interviewer: Why did the, were, well, did women, did a lot of women belong to the Ladies Literary Club? Blake: Oh yes, very, very active club. Interviewer: Why…? Blake: I think it still is. Interviewer: What, for what reason would women become active in that club? Blake: It was the only club of its kind in the city except for the West Side Ladies Literary Club, or the West Side Literary Club, I think that was. And I don‟t know whether the west side club antedates, I don‟t think it antedates the Ladies Literary Club, it may have been a branch, I don‟t know. It may have been a branch of it, but that‟s a very old club too, the West Side Literary Club. But I think the Ladies Literary Club was the first to organize, I think it was unique in the country. Interviewer: What kind of activities would they have at the club? Blake: Well, mostly literary, of course, usually some music on their programs, speakers, the most important speakers from the country that they could get and it depended very largely on the Presidents who was the best getter of speakers from other places. And political interest came in, of course non-partisan, but they were inte…, they were very alive club. Interviewer: Would you say it was the center of cultural activity for women at that time? �10 Blake: I divide honors between that and the St. Cecilia. Of course the St. Cecilia was primarily music, but the two combined made the, quite a strong influence for culture in Grand Rapids. Of course, a great many of the women were members of both, the St. Cecilia and the Ladies Literary Club. Interviewer: I‟m going to turn this tape over, it‟s almost out, and I have just a couple more questions I won‟t be able to get them… [End of side one] Blake: Don‟t know whether he was born in Grand Rapids, but he was a Grand Rapids boy, and we were, we were just devoted to the Library, why we spent a great deal of time there, went to all the library lectures, ever since, in the room the other day with Mr. Collins, I had come in for some other, no I had come in to see him and give him some papers I had, and I looked around and I said, “well, this used to be the lecture room, didn‟t it?” Of course it‟s something else now, but it was the old lecture room; when we went to every lecture there was, I believe, in it. And they had a very lively program, in it, the library. It‟s always been in good hands, the library I could remember that part. Then I, I put down women‟s suffrage because you mentioned that. And then I scribbled down here, I guess how people lived, maybe suggestion. Now, what did we used to like to do when we could do whatever we pleased? And then I thought of the streetcars we had no horse of our own, and of course there weren‟t any automobiles then anyways as far as I know, but we used to like to ride, to ride the streetcars. Cool off on a hot day, you‟d get on an open streetcar. You‟ve seen pictures at least of open streetcars? Interviewer: I‟m not sure. Blake: Well, where the seats go right straight across. You get on from the side, you step on and slide into your seat. They‟re all open, and of course when the cars are going we have a delightful breeze. Made, made to order. You could ride from one end of the city to the other, you see, which meant back from Reed‟s Lake to North Park or the Soldiers Home or a little beyond it, or the pavilion out there at North Park where there is usually music or something going on. But we‟d usually stay on the car, and it would turn around and then come back. We might have had to pay another five cents to get back, but… But anyway, you could ride from one end of the city to the other for five cents. So, I jotted down there, Wealthy- Scribner. And the names amused me too, they did even then, we used to laugh over the names of our streetcars. Wealthy-Scribner, Wealthy-Taylor, Cherry-Shawmut, aren‟t those silly names? But the Wealthy was because it went down the length of Wealthy, Wealthy Avenue, they called it. Now it‟s called Wealthy Street, but it was Wealthy Avenue that, that‟s where the line began. And Scribner was way over on the west side. Well, Scribner Street‟s still there, and Wealthy Street‟s still there, but that was the Wealthy-Scribner line. Well then the Wealthy-Taylor line was the longer still, because that went way out Taylor Street, now that‟s on the west side too, way out to North Park. So no wait, is Taylor on the west side? �11 Interviewer: I don‟t even know where Taylor is… Blake: There is, the river turns there some, Division, no, we didn‟t cross the river. No Taylor isn‟t on the west side, I, I was wrong there, because we didn‟t cross the river when we went out to North Park. So Taylor must be in that direction. But we went past what we call the Soldiers Home, it‟s now called the Veteran‟s facility, and out to a pavilion that, that was there near the bridge that did cross over to the west side. Now that, that bridge was way out at Comstock Park. So Taylor must be out there, in that direction. I ought to know, but I don‟t; mixed up on that, but the names Wealthy-Scribner, Wealthy-Taylor, people from other cities used to say, “You have the queerest names for your streets” Now the Shawmut, what a name, and Cherry, and Cherry, Cherry Street, why Cherry Street? Well, maybe they had cherry trees once, I don‟t remember, but Wealthy-Scribner, Wealthy-Taylor, Reed‟s Lake, Cherry-Shawmut, John Ball Park, and they thought John Ball Park must be a place where they have ball games; of course… there isn‟t any out there. We had to explain that John Ball was one of the pioneers in Grand Rapids, that that park was named after him. I hope you dump out a lot of this, you take them will you. Interviewer: Do you think that, well you were a school teacher for a long time, how has the society changed or has it changed from the days when you were growing up? And what do you attribute that change to? Blake: Well, of course the recent change I‟d say has taken place within the last four years. I think its chaos now. Standards are, standards are broken down; many people have no standards, they just think they can do what they please. Which I call communistic, they might as well be shipped off to Russia the way they act. And the way they simply think they can help themselves to anything. Gangs come around, throwing stones and, and… Interviewer: Do you have that problem down here on College? Blake: Right here, they haven‟t hit the house yet; they don‟t quite dare. And they can‟t quite reach the house for they, it‟s, it‟s a gang that is sort of between little colored people and grown, and they‟re, they‟re all, the gang is all colored. That isn‟t one that, that comes around here occasionally, and they seem to recruit from somewhere over on Paris Avenue, which is almost solid black. You know that, that block there, there are three white families that I know are still living there, up near Cherry. But I think most of those in through here don‟t know how live. And that has been, that neighborhood has run down, don‟t quote me on these things please, but that neighborhood has run down for many years, because a real estate man who was buying up all the properties just let it go to, well, go to pieces. And let the houses run down, didn‟t care who rented them, but one of the former renters there told me that, that she was charged an enormous rent for a horrible room in one of the houses back here, and well the backyards are, well they are cleaned up a little bit, but they‟re not too good there. There are cars parked all over in the backyards, and sometimes people climbing all over the tops of them. That one time there were six, for heaven‟s sakes, don‟t quote me, I‟m, I‟m getting some of the dope on this area. But �12 we‟ve had, and, and why, I don‟t know why, we‟ve suddenly changed. The lack of standards, the lack of any idea of what‟s right nor wrong or is what, what‟s it seems to me that some of them think well, whatever they want to do is right. Well they have a right to which isn‟t right at all. They have no standards, but the gang here, made up of both little and big, are the one I dealt with happened to be all colored. And they throw stones, and pieces of cement and bricks, I don‟t know where they get the bricks, from the fence line, my back fence line there, and the garage back there; I have a drive, short driveway on this side whenever I. They in order to make a lot of no[ise], they could, they couldn‟t throw far enough to hit the house, there‟s a big back lawn there, they really were a bunch of cowards and they didn‟t quite dare, but really what‟s fortunate they didn‟t dare come over the fence. A, so they put a dishpan out so it would make a lot of noise from where, they threw from the fence and threw towards the dishpan so it would make a resounding noise, their bricks and their stones and oh boy… Well they did that one day when I was here. I spend a part of everyday down here, trying to clear up this house, clear out a little each day, but one morning when I came down from Oakwood Manor, I looked out the back window and the lawn was scattered with bricks and stones they‟d been throwing „em, either the night before or early morning, and I really should have had the police come up and look at it. But it was the day that, that the trucks come along and clean up everything or they did for a while. So I thought well, I better get this, this stuff out in front for the trucks to pick up so I did. But I should have called the police out first, to take a look at it. I told them about it afterwards, but, they said, “Did they do any damage to the house?” I said, well I can‟t prove it, but there is broken glass around, but they, they were at a distance when they threw those things, and they didn‟t hit the house. Damage was merely to my nerves…and house to clean up, but anyway, that sort of thing seems to spring up all of a sudden. And, sometimes they swarm around the car out there, there parked in the driveway and one day they came around, they must have had either a stone or a brick in their hands, I don‟t know, and whanged against the house you know and one these, oh, forget what, anyway, to make all the noise they could, trying to terrorize the, whoever was inside the house. They didn‟t break a single glass, but I was afraid they would so I called the police. And if the police had come at once they would have seen the whole gang of them. By the time a policeman got up here, I had called a second time, I said I need the police, and I need them now, well, I said, the gang‟s right here, and take a picture of them. And said well he‟s on the way, well, the nice policeman was on the way, but when he came here… Interviewer: They were gone: Blake: They vanished into thin air, where they went and how, I don‟t know. It was just like that and they were gone. And he asked me their names… Why, I said, “I don‟t know their names.” “Well, what‟d they look like?” I said, “To me those colored people all look alike.” And, “What did they wear?” Well, I said, “I can remember one wore a striped red and white sweater…” “Are they good looking?” Well I said, “I don‟t know, their names, and I don‟t know who their parents are, they‟re a gang that, that, gather themselves together, you know, and go in and out behind… well, there‟s a big barn over there, that‟s a good place to hide, behind a red barn, and then there‟s �13 a garage right next to me, back of this house if you ask them and they recruit, and then they come around.” Well, now that‟s what we‟re up against, that lawlessness, all the … broken out and they think they seem to have the right to be any where they want to, whether they want to play in the back yard or where… Interviewer: It wasn‟t like that when you were… Blake: Well, no. this was private property, and if, in fact we almost always had the fence around and mother had a fence with a gate that locked and she let in people she wanted her children to play with, and kept out those she didn‟t. But that was way back, of course when your home was your private property, your own affair, and now people think they have a right in anything. Well, that‟s Communism, why not pack them off to Russia and leave them there, it that‟s… but that seems to be a general feeling. And where it comes from… Interviewer: Could you a… Blake: But, it‟s to me a total reversal of what‟s right and what‟s wrong and what‟s decent and what isn‟t. But you see I‟m very old fashioned. It‟s, it‟s awfully hard to take different reasons for things. Interviewer: Yeah. Blake: What‟s back of it I don‟t know. Of course, the automobile began changing ways of life for instance an all-day picnic at, at Ada or Cascade with a horse and buggy, now it‟s about, doesn‟t take more than 30 minutes to drive, to drive an auto there, another 30 back. I think life began changing then, but it was still a delightful living in the early days of the automobile. But something has hit- is it war? Do you think war is back of what‟s the matter with us? We‟re always fighting somewhere. If it isn‟t Vietnam it‟s somewhere else. I don‟t know what‟s, what‟s the, but to me it, it‟s a, it‟s tragic. People, now this of course still part of the Heritage Hill district and the people here are just hoping that they can stay here; they‟re watching and just hoping that they can stay here. There are some lovely people across the street in one of the houses that was there when, when we, we moved up here, one of the two houses that was on the other side of the street, still there, sort of ice cream colored, the Magmoses[?] live there now. And they‟re hoping they can stay there, that the, that the gangs that come around won‟t, won‟t get over on their side. They don‟t know when it‟s going to run across the street… They say things aren‟t, you can‟t plan ahead or be confident that you can do things that you used to do now, don‟t know, what you‟re going to run up against. I don‟t know what‟s, I don‟t think anybody knows the answer. But it seems to me sort of a communistic movement … that‟s been very gradually and subtly pushed nearer and nearer to where we‟re living. Came from Detroit, here, and from where to Detroit I goodness knows. Detroit‟s had an awful time, hasn‟t it? Just fright[ful]… �14 INDEX A M Alliance Française Club · 8 Anthony, Susan B. · 5, 6 McKnight, Mrs. · 7, 8 B N Blake, Adeline Louise "Alde" Tuck (Mother) · 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 13 Blake, William Frederick (Father) · 2, 3, 4 Blodgett, Mrs. John · 6 Brouwer Family · 2 National Women’s Suffrage organization · 7 R Reed’s Lake · 4, 11 C Central High School · 8, 9 Cody Hotel · 1 G Grand Rapids Equal Suffrage Club · 7 H Herpolsheimer’s · 3 S Shaw Family · 2 Shaw, Howard · 5 St. Cecilia's Music Society · 6, 7, 10 State Women’s Suffrage organization · 7 T Taft, President · 7, 8 U J Union High School · 8, 9 John Ball Park · 3, 11 Judson Grocery Company · 2, 3 W L Ladies Literary Club · 7, 8, 9, 10 Wealthy Avenue School · 2 Wishart, Dr. · 5, 6 Women's Suffrage · 5, 6, 8, 11 Worden Grocery Company · 3 Wurzburg’s · 3 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0ce366b50d4e3f9d5f743cb39c461566.mp3 abb684495a57d7b68391809aff37d961 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Rapids Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Heritage Hill (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Local histories Memoirs Michigan--History Oral histories (document genre) Description An account of the resource Taped and transcribed interviews conducted in the early 1970s primarily of the children and grandchildren of many of the founders of Grand Rapids, Michigan; many of whom were residents of the Heritage Hill neighborhood. Interviews were collected to develop a significant collection of oral resources that would supplement other primary and secondary local history materials. Initially funded as a private project, Grand Valley State College (now University) assumed responsibility for continuing the project until 1977. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Various Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/452">Grand Rapids oral history collection (RHC-23)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf; audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text; Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-23 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1971 - 1977 Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-23_14-15Blake Title A name given to the resource Blake, Dorothy Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Blake, Dorothy Description An account of the resource Miss Blake was a Radcliffe graduate and taught school at Union High School for 34 years. Miss Blake met both Woodrow Wilson and Howard Taft at the Lady's Literary Club. She also worked in the 1912 National campaign for women's suffrage movement. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan--History Local histories Memoirs Oral histories (document genre) Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Heritage Hill (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Grand Valley State University Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf audio/mp3 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Grand Rapids oral history collection (RHC-23) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1971 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0527a8a8c990dcd9e0cedc0c864e02bc.pdf 4c68b025e9205ede9433992bbe1d9b07 PDF Text Text Young Lords In Lincoln Park Interviewee: Carol Blakely Interviewer: Jose Jimenez Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections Date: 10/19/2012 Runtime: 01:53:23 Biography and Description Oral history of Carol Blakely, interviewed by Jose “Cha-Cha” Jimenez on October 19, 2012 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. "The Young Lords in Lincoln Park" collection grows out of decades of work to more fully document the history of Chicago's Puerto Rican community which gave birth to the Young Lords Organization and later, the Young Lords Party. Founded by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, the Young Lords became one of the premier struggles for international human rights. Where thriving church congregations, social and �political clubs, restaurants, groceries, and family residences once flourished, successive waves of urban renewal and gentrification forcibly displaced most of those Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, working-class and impoverished families, and their children in the 1950s and 1960s. Today these same families and activists also risk losing their history. �Transcript JOSE JIMENEZ: Testing one, two, three. Testing one, two, three. Go ahead and say something. CAROL CORONADO: Hello. How are you? (break in audio) JJ: Okay. Go ahead and say something. CC: Hello. How are you? JJ: Testing one, two, three. Testing one, two, three. (break in audio) Okay, now Carol, give me your name and where you were born. CC: Okay. My name is Carol [Coronado?]. I was born in Chicago, Illinois on March 11, 1942. I lived in Lake View. JJ: When you were born? CC: When I was born, we lived in Lake View which is right at Roscoe and Broadway. JJ: Okay. Right around Roscoe and Broadway, that area? CC: Right. JJ: Okay, and your parents. What were their names? CC: My mother’s name was [Evelyn?] and my father’s name was [Ross?]. I have one sister who’s older. Her name is [Patricia?]. I have a brother who’s 20 [00:01:00] months younger. His name is [Ross, Jr.?]. JJ: Okay. And did you had a sister and a brother you said so they are... Where are your parents from? 1 �CC: Okay. My father was born in McKeesport, Pennsylvania which is right near Pittsburgh. My mother was born in Chicago on the South Side. I’m not exactly sure where but it was on the South Side. JJ: What type of work did they do? CC: Pardon me? JJ: What type of work did they do? CC: Okay. My father was a produce manager for A&P and my mother was a cashier and bookkeeper for A&P, also. JJ: Okay. So they did that for most of their life or...? CC: Yes, yes. JJ: And what about your sisters and brother -- brother and sister? CC: My sister got married and had four children. My brother, he worked at a printing company in, oh, McHenry, Illinois and he just retired from there. And me, I’ve had several jobs. (laughs) [00:02:00] I worked in the bank in the accounting department. I worked for ACNielsen as a comptometer operator. I was an AT&T telephone operator for a while. For the last 30 years, I’ve been a security guard with Securitas. I was 12 years at Bell Laboratories in Naperville and 18 years at General Mills in West Chicago. Right now, I just work three days a week at a gated community in Plainfield on a public golf course. I have a gate house and I let people into play golf. Yeah. JJ: Now you said you were born at Lake View. CC: Lake View. JJ: Did you grow up there, too, or...? 2 �CC: Yes, I grew up there. I went to Nettlehorst Grammar School and Lake View High School. JJ: Oh, you went to Lake View High School. CC: Lake View High School. JJ: Nettlehorst Grammar School, where is that? CC: That’s at Broadway [00:03:00] and Aldine. And then Lake View was Irving Park and Ashland. JJ: What was that like? What was Nettlehorst like? CC: Nettlehorst? It was -- JJ: Now, did you go to eighth grade? CC: Through eighth grade and I graduated. JJ: So can you kind of describe that for us? The community and how...? CC: The community was -- all right. I lived a block off Lake Shore Drive, all right? So if you lived on this side of Broadway, you were working-class people. This side of Broadway, it was very rich people. JJ: So the west side of Broadway was working class? CC: Was working class, yeah. JJ: And the east side was rich people? CC: Was very -- yeah, very rich people. (laughs) JJ: And did people talk about that, or...? CC: Yes and no. When I went to school, mostly the kids that went there were Jewish. There were only -- like in a class of, say, 30, there were 11 [00:04:00] of us that were Protestant or Catholic. 3 �JJ: Mm-hmm. So you’re a Protestant? CC: I’m Protestant –- a Presbyterian. JJ: Oh, Presbyterian. CC: Yeah. And so -- JJ: Your parents, too? Your parents? CC: But we kind of like -- yes, my -- oh, see, that’s the thing. My father was Irish Catholic. My mother was Lutheran. We were baptized Presbyterian because my aunt, my uncle’s wife, was in charge of the cradle roll at (inaudible) Presbyterian Church and so we were baptized Presbyterian. We had kind of a strange family. (laughs) JJ: So what -- wasn’t that [Angris?]? What years are we --talking about (crosstalk) -- CC: That was from 1942 till I’d say ’54, I would say. JJ: So from 1932 -- CC: Forty-two. JJ: Forty-two. CC: (laughs) JJ: Sorry, oh I’m sorry. Nineteen forty-two to -- CC: Say, ’54. JJ: [00:05:00] –- to ’54. You’re talking about –- that’s the eighth grade? The first eighth grade? CC: Oh, no. Oh, the eighth grade. I started school when I was six so I went from ’48 to ’56. Nineteen forty-eight to 1956. To Nettlehorst, yeah. 4 �JJ: And then what type of neighborhood? What was the population? And what type of neighborhood? CC: And then I graduated. Okay. It was mainly white working-class. There were no Blacks in the neighborhood. We had -- like I said, it was an all-white neighborhood. JJ: You’re talking about all of Lake View or just that area? CC: That area that I was from. Yeah. JJ: Yeah. Was it all white? CC: All white. Yeah. JJ: Was it ethnic whites? I mean, were they like Irish, Italian? CC: Irish, Italian, German. Yeah. Jewish. Uh, yeah. And then in the ‘50s -- oh, I’m trying to think. In 19-- I would say ‘54 or something, we had a lot of Puerto Ricans come [00:06:00] to the neighborhood. So the neighborhood changed; We had a lot of Puerto Ricans there. JJ: Okay. So 1954, around there? CC: About ’54. Yeah. Because I was about 12, 13. Yeah. JJ: And so what happened when the Puerto Ricans came? How did you feel? CC: Oh. We had a good time, you know? And there were -- (laughs) as a young woman, there were some really good-looking guys. So we were happy (laughs) they were in the neighborhood. I don’t know if you want me to say that, but that’s -- yeah. Yeah, and we -- JJ: So you didn’t have any problem with them. CC: No. 5 �JJ: What about the guys? That’s the girls, but what about the guys? CC: The guys got along fine and they integrated with us. We all got along. I can’t remember any problems with, you know, every –- JJ: Is Aldine -- is that like around Halsted or Addison? CC: No. Aldine is -- okay. You know where Belmont is? JJ: Right. Oh, yeah. CC: All right. Aldine is two blocks north of Belmont so I lived in between [00:07:00] Addison and Belmont on Roscoe Street. JJ: Oh, that’s Roscoe. Roscoe runs the same way. Does it go by [Halsted?]? CC: Roscoe runs east and west. JJ: Does it go...? Oh. CC: And it ended at -- okay. JJ: And Aldine goes north and south. CC: I lived on Broadway. At the end of the street if you walked down to the next street, that was Halsted Street. Yeah, that was Halstead Street. And then Clark Street came also a little farther up. So -- JJ: Okay. So this area [ancestry?] is Puerto Rican and you didn’t have any problem? CC: No problems or anything. No problems. JJ: (crosstalk) the schools? CC: They went to school, yeah. And they hung -- we hung around together and stuff. JJ: Now, when you say it was turning Puerto Rican, was it a lot of Puerto Ricans? CC: Yeah, several -- a whole lot of Puerto Ricans. You probably could tell me more of the history of Puerto Rico. But that’s when the Puerto Rican community started 6 �coming into our neighborhood. Yeah. And I said we had no -- I mean, they lived across the street from me and stuff. And I get -JJ: [00:08:00] Your background is part Irish? CC: I’m Irish, German, Norwegian. I am Irish. My maiden name was [Curley?]. That’s about as Irish as you can get, so yeah. JJ: All right. Okay. So you were Irish. And so what was it like for a woman to grow up? A girl to grow up at that time? Did you stay at home or like (crosstalk) –- CC: Well, no, I hung out. We all hung out on the streets and stuff. And we played marbles (laughs) and -- JJ: Oh, you played marbles? CC: Marbles and pinners, a game called pinners. And I played baseball because I was a bit of a tomboy. So I climbed fences and my mother used to get really upset because I would rip out my blue jeans and stuff. Yeah, so -- but no, we -everybody -- you knew everybody. You knew your neighbors. Like today, it’s not like that [00:09:00] I don’t think. I don’t know the people that live here on this side of me because they’re new, okay? And I did know the people who lived in this house next to me when we first moved here. However, everybody knew everybody’s business and all the kids, you know what I’m saying? We all hung out together. But I wouldn’t call us a -- we never got into any kind of trouble trouble. We just all played until we got to be teenagers. Then we started to get into like drinking and stuff. Doing things. Doing things we shouldn’t have done. JJ: Drinking and was that all, or...? 7 �CC: No, drinking and some of us, not myself personally, (laughs) but stealing cars and stuff like that. Yeah. JJ: Oh, I see. Joy riding. Were you -- CC: Joy riding, yeah. JJ: So there was joy riding and -- CC: [00:10:00] Right. JJ: -- at the time. What year was that? CC: That was like 1956. Yeah, ’56, ’57. Yeah. And we -- JJ: Okay. Was there -- CC: And we -- JJ: Oh, I’m sorry, go ahead. CC: Oh, no. Go ahead. Also, we -- then we started forming gangs and we would fight with peop-- (laughs) We found with Lemoyne School which was over there -Addison and Southport I believe is what it -- yeah. They didn’t come into our school year -- JJ: Oh, you mean by Halstead, no? By –- CC: Yeah. Right across from Cubs Park. Yeah. JJ: Right around the corner. Yeah. CC: But they were not allowed in our neighborhood and we didn’t go in theirs. JJ: So it was a school? CC: Yeah. JJ: It was one school against the other or what gang? What was the name of it? 8 �CC: It was the gang -- we didn’t have a name. Well, we did. The Customettes. It was called the Customettes. And the guys were called -- I can’t remember. I think somewhere around [00:11:00] this house, I have a leather jacket that has –that says Customettes on the back of it. Yeah. JJ: Oh, and that’s the woman’s group. CC: That was the women’s. JJ: So it must’ve been the Customs or something. CC: No, I can’t remember what they were called. Plus we also had in our neighborhood the -- JJ: Was it mainly...? Oh. CC: -- not the Hell’s Angels. It was a motorcycle, the Chicago Outlaws. Yeah. I got involved with them a little -- when I was little like maybe 15 and stuff. That was a motorcycle gang. JJ: So what did the Customettes do mainly? CC: Just run around with the guys. Hung around with the guys (laughs) and wear jackets. But we would get in fights. I mean, fist fights and stuff. JJ: Other women or...? CC: Women and guys. You know. Some of the women, (laughs) they could fight just as good as a guy. I mean I was [00:12:00] one of those people. Yeah. But yeah, they would come in the school yard and then it would start and then the police would get us. They would surround us. They’d come from -- one from this way and another and get us and stuff. But and then take us down to Town Hall police station where my father would have to come get us. 9 �JJ: And what would your father say? CC: He was very upset. (laughs) He was very upset. But we never did anything that got us -- though some did wind up at the Audy Home. Are you familiar with the Audy Home or...? JJ: Yeah, a little bit. CC: Or a couple of people got sent to St. Charles reform school. Yeah. JJ: These are the guys or the girls? Or the guys (crosstalk) -- CC: It was the guys. The guys and (crosstalk) some of the girls went -- I can’t remember the name [00:13:00] of the -- they’re -- okay. In Geneva, there was a woman’s and I can’t remember the name of that. JJ: Yeah, but it was in Geneva. It was (inaudible). CC: Yeah, it was in Geneva. And the boys they sent to St. Charles which was -yeah, St. Charles reform school for boys. JJ: Yeah. Was this mainly in the -- was there a lot of Puerto Ricans in your group? In this gang? Or was it mainly Irish and German? CC: We had some Puerto Ricans. It was a mixture; We had a mixture of people. We had one called [Louis Anderson?] -- he was Black. See, the Louis was the only Black person that lived in the neighborhood that I remember when I was young and he ran around with us. Yes, we had Puerto Ricans and we had -- JJ: But the people in the Lemoyne were fighting with you here. CC: They were white; mostly white. JJ: At Lemoyne? CC: Yeah. At Lemoyne, they were white. 10 �JJ: Oh. Because later, I think they had like (crosstalk) Latin -- CC: Yeah. Later, it’s all -- there’s a lot of Latins over there now, but not at that -- JJ: [00:14:00] But at that time, in ’54, it was white. CC: Yeah. Yeah. There wasn’t many. JJ: Nettlehorst and then -- CC: Lake View High School. JJ: This is Lake View High School. Okay. CC: Yeah. Now, when I got to Lake View High School, I became kind of a lady because I was getting older. So I didn’t get so much into things that were -- JJ: So when you say you were fighting in these little skirmishes -- CC: In the school yard. In the school yard. JJ: This was Lake View. You were in Lake View already. CC: No, I was at Nettlehorst. JJ: At Nettlehorst. CC: Yeah, yeah. JJ: And now you went to Lake View High School? CC: And then I went to Lake View High School and we got into -- like dating and all the stuff and I started smoking. JJ: What do you mean dating? Going out with a guy? CC: You know, guys. Going out with guys and stuff. JJ: Yeah, no, no. So the girls would -- CC: Dates and -- JJ: So a lot of dates or...? 11 �CC: Yeah, yeah. [00:15:00] And but drinking. But we also did a lot of drinking. There was a lot of drinking. JJ: So did you guys hang out on a street corner? CC: On a street corner, on a street corner. JJ: What corner was that? What corner was that? CC: At one point, it was Roscoe and Broadway. JJ: You were at Roscoe and Broadway? CC: Right, Roscoe and Broadway and the police used to come. If they said we couldn’t congregate so they would split us up and we would have to go farther down the street. But they didn’t want us there. JJ: Yeah. So the police would just come by and tell you to move? CC: Yeah, tell us to move to disassemble. (laughter) Because they feared if there were more than three of us at one time, we were going to be doing something that we weren’t supposed to do. But plus the Chicago Outlaws and there were another [00:16:00] group -- gosh, oh I can’t remember the (laughs) name of that group. It was a motorcycle gang. The girls were called the [Sabers?]. I wasn’t in that gang, but that’s who hung out. The Sabers and the -- the (inaudible)... But they really were after them. There was a lot of police after them. But they had guns and stuff. (inaudible) guns and stuff. JJ: Oh, they had guns. Were they into drugs, too, or...? CC: Drugs, yeah. JJ: Oh, so that’s why they were [after them?]. 12 �CC: I drank, but I was always a little leery of drugs though I did have friends that did drugs and stuff. I -- JJ: What kind of drugs did they do? CC: Oh, they did marijuana. I had a couple friends that were into heroin. Yeah. JJ: Hmm. Was that a big problem at that time then or...? CC: Not so much the drugs. [00:17:00] When I went to high school, yeah. We had a friend who they sent him to Kentucky. There was a dry-out center. He died of -he died -- JJ: Do you remember? CC: I can’t remember. JJ: Out of Kentucky (crosstalk) -- CC: It wasn’t Louisville. It was something like that, yeah. And he died of a drug overdose while he was there. Yeah. So you tell me how that happens, you know? But yeah, at Lake View High School, there was a lot of drugs. JJ: So how was Lake View High School? I mean, what was the population there and what...? CC: It was a mixture. There were Blacks, whites, Latinos, Orientals, yeah. JJ: Was it a rough school or...? CC: Yeah, it was a rough -- pretty rough school. Yeah. JJ: What, were there gangs or...? CC: They used to call Lake View High School the home of unwed mothers. (laughs) Yeah. Seriously, yeah. And there were a lot of [00:18:00] gangs. JJ: And what year was this? 13 �CC: This was 1956, ’57. JJ: Fifty-six, fifty-seven, there were a lot of gangs? CC: Yeah. JJ: Do you remember any of the gangs or...? CC: (sighs) (shakes head) JJ: What were the teachers like? CC: The teachers were okay. I don’t know. I was very bored in high school. I did not like high school. I quit when I was 16 and I went to [Logan Continuation School?]. I worked in the truant officer’s office (laughs) one day a week and I went to work at the A&P with my mother as a cashier. Because my mother said the only way they would let me quit school when I was 16 was to go to work. Because I wasn’t going to be hanging around with my friends on the street, I had to go to work which I did. I went to work for the A&P. However, when I was 28 years old, I took the [00:19:00] GED and passed a college entrance and went to Northeastern Illinois University at the field center -- we had a field center on Montrose and Sheridan. JJ: Okay. So you went to Northeastern? CC: Northeastern. JJ: How far did you go there? CC: I was there for a couple years because then they came and they opened a mental health center, Edgewater Uptown Mental Health Center. What they did was they hired all of us, the Young Patriots and other community groups, to be, I guess, mental health workers. See, they figured they could buy us and give us 14 �this salary. And we ran the emergency service. I worked in geriatrics for United Charities. At that time, in the ‘70s, they literally dumped people out of the mental institution and put them in [00:20:00] Uptown. Okay? In halfway houses and some in independent living. All right? So they hired a bunch of the community people to work with these people and stuff. And what I did was I worked in geriatrics. I worked with a whole lot of people who had been locked up for many years in like Manteno and Dixon. They literally just turned them out on the street and gave them apartments and they had them coming to this mental health center where they worked. Or I would go to their houses and make sure they were taking their medicine and stuff. But I got in trouble because all right, they had a psychiatrist who every person I sent in there would come out with a handful of prescriptions. I had people that I was seeing that their tongue was (puffs tongue) [00:21:00] like this because they were overmedicated and stuff. And I said that I thought [Mark Schuler?] was a pill pusher. And (laughs) I got called into his office and he asked me did I think I was a doctor? I said, “No. However, you don’t need to be a doctor to know that people are overmedicated when their tongue was swollen.” Or you’re making them -- all right. They didn’t want them to be a threat to the community. Well, they’re not a threat to anybody. They’re not -- they can barely function, some of these people. You’ve got them so medicated. They’re not a threat to themselves or anybody else. That was after the clinic -- after the Young Patriots clinic. JJ: You mentioned the Patriots. Who were they? 15 �CC: The Young Patriots, they were a street gang to begin with. They were guys, mostly guys, and they [00:22:00] were like street hustlers. They hustled people for money. They fought with guns and knives. JJ: They hustled -- who did they hustle? CC: The gay guys and stuff. They would hustle them sometimes. I really don’t want to go into detail about it but that’s -- yeah, anyway. They were hustlers. JJ: This was before you were political or...? CC: Political and then JOIN and SDS -- JJ: Before you were political. CC: Yes. And then JOIN and SDS came to the community and they got -- I don’t know because I wasn’t around them with the Patriots. But they got them -somehow, they organized them into opening up a food pantry where they give out and they talk to them and politicize these young kids. They were mostly southern [00:23:00] whites that were -- JJ: And what year was this? CC: This was in 19-- okay. It had to have been -- because I first got involved -- it was in ’66, okay? And they were around for a couple years. Maybe ’64, ’65, something like that. (crosstalk) My mother-in-law was involved with them and that’s how I got to meet them, my husband and I. They were going to do a march on Summerdale Police Station because one of the kids -- JJ: So this is after they became political. CC: Yes. JJ: So they weren’t hustling anymore? 16 �CC: They weren’t hustling any-- if they were, they weren’t telling. But I -- (laughs) but no. They were talking to people in the community, they were fighting [00:24:00] the police brutality because what happened, on Sunnydale, there was a kid -- I -and they were going to arrest him. They had in handcuffs and they shot him (laughs) in the back. Shot him. He’s on his knees on the sidewalk and they shot him to death. Said he was trying to escape arrest. JJ: And he was in handcuffs. CC: He was in hand-- behind his back. Because there was a police officer, his name was [Sam Joseph?], who was very brutal, okay? Just these kids, they would beat them up and threated to kill them. So we decided we were going to march on Summerdale Police Station with my mother-in-law and the Young Patriots. They got my husband, [Doug?] and I involved and that was my first experience with that [00:25:00] is I marched on Summerdale Police Station. I was pregnant with my son (laughs) and -- JJ: What’s your son’s name? CC: His name is [Jason?]. And yeah, I was pregnant with my son. JJ: You didn’t tell me -- did you tell me your daughter’s name? CC: Huh? JJ: Did you tell me your daughter’s name? CC: I didn’t have a daughter. JJ: Oh, you didn’t. CC: No. JJ: You just had a son. Okay. 17 �CC: A son -- I just had one son. JJ: We’re talking about brothers. CC: Yeah. Oh, I had a sister and brother. Yeah. No. JJ: Okay. What was their names? CC: Patricia and Ross. That’s my sister and my brother. But yeah, no, my son Jason. I was pregnant with my son Jason and I was marching with a sign on Summerdale Police Station (laughs) and then we started to get involved because the Patriots -- JJ: (laughs) Do you remember the sign? What it said or anything or...? CC: Sam Joseph -- get rid of Sam Joseph or something like that because he was very brutal. I mean, he was a really brutal police officer. He (laughs) and -- JJ: So you went marching with a sign, right? Were you excited? CC: With a sign, yeah. JJ: Were you excited or...? CC: Oh yeah. It was fun. I never had -- [00:26:00] because I -- I knew my mother-inlaw was into all this political stuff. My husband and I, his name was [Douglas Youngblood?], he didn’t really want to get involved because he was working at DuPont and we kind of stayed back. But once we got over there and it was with the Summerdale thing and stuff. He met Bobby Joe and Junebug and the Young Patriots and he got involved. I worked. I -- JJ: Bobby Joe and Junebug are leaders in the Young Patriots? CC: Yeah, they were like 17. Now, Doug and I were like 25 but these were like young kids -- 17, 18 years old, and -- 18 �JJ: So who was Doug making (inaudible)? (crosstalk) CC: He kind of became their spokesperson because he was a little older and he really got into it. I mean he was -- he got [00:27:00] involved. JJ: What do you mean he got into it? CC: With the police. Trying to stop the police brutality and into -- like the food. We had a food coop and we gave away clothes to -- second-hand clothes. And -- JJ: Now, was this the Young Patriots then? CC: It was the Young Patriots, yeah. JJ: They -- (crosstalk) CC: They had a little storefront. I would go there -- JJ: Where was that storefront? CC: It was right on -- it was forty-- oh, I got that address -- 4408, I believe, Sheridan Road. It was just a little storefront. And they had a clinic that wa-- now, see that all came out of JOIN when -- JOIN. But I’m trying to think. Doug was really good at writing up stuff. So they had him -- JJ: [00:28:00] (crosstalk) CC: And he became their spokesperson. I mean if you needed an article written or whatever, he was really good at the writing. JJ: He’s a writer. CC: Yeah. A writer writer and a poet -- a political poet he was, too. JJ: He got any poetry? CC: Yeah, he has some really good poetry that was published and stuff. He gave -- JJ: Is he alive? Or is he still alive? 19 �CC: No, he passed away four years ago October 5th. JJ: What happened? CC: He had cancer. He had colon cancer which it spread into his liver and he died. For about two and a half years, he survived but he passed away. And I’m trying to think. Out of that -- we had a clinic one day a week in a storefront. Then it just kind [00:29:00] of built up till we had -- we rented a whole suite of offices. In the building where the storefront was here and up above, there was like offices. We rented a whole suite of offices. We had doctors that were from Presbyterian-St. Luke, Billings Hospital, and they paid the rent on those offices. We had about 75 health workers working. We had the Visiting Nurses Association, we had medical students, fourth-year medical students, whose -- JJ: Medical students? CC: Yeah, medical students. We had people that were studying like lab technician stuff. We did our own urine testing, urine sampling, and blood tests. I learned how [00:30:00] to do a [hematocrit?] where you stick somebody in the finger and stuff. We used to take people back and forth to the hospital when they had to go. Or we would just go visit people to see if they were okay. Some were our patients and stuff. JJ: To what hospital did you take them? CC: It was Weiss Memorial and Cuneo. JJ: Mm-hmm. Did you work something out with them? CC: Yeah, we did. At Weiss Memorial, we had a guy. He was the -- what do they call that guy? The Human Resources person or... [Bob Cross?] -- his name was Bob 20 �Cross and he donated a bunch of medical equipment to us. Or they had sometimes samples of medicine. But mostly, our doctors -- I mean, we had the greatest doctors in the world. JJ: Do you remember any of them? CC: Yes. [John Wilsey?], he was in charge of an emergency room at Lutheran General. We [00:31:00] had [Gordon Lang?], he was in charge of the renal department at Pres-St. Luke’s. [Sam Jampolis?], he was at Billings in the cancer research. We had another doctor; I can’t remember his name. He did heart transplants. We had another guy, he was from Children’s Memorial Hospital. We had a bunch of people. Just I’ll tell ya. We did a lot of stuff with the community and talking to the community, but the real heroes were those doctors and those medical students, Cha-Cha. They just gave -- they volunteered their time. They paid for all those hospital -- the hospital -- all the examining rooms and stuff and they paid the rent on that suite things. Those [00:32:00] were the heroes. And they treated people -- okay. Normally if you go to a doctor, they ask you questions but you’re not really treated like a human being. But the people we had there, I mean they were treated like they’d never been treated in their lives. If they had questions, those doctors would answer any question you wanted to know. It wasn’t just a, “Take off your shirt. I’m going to get a stethoscope.” They really took an interest in people. One time, we had a -- we called it, pardon my language, “Piss on Brown.” [Murray Brown?] was in charge of the Board of Health. A lot of the problem we had in Uptown was lead poisoning because there were these slum buildings and these slumlords. They didn’t fix up these 21 �buildings. Paint was peeling and kids were getting lead poisoning from the paint. So what we did, Dr. Lang, he got a grant [00:33:00] that he said we had to collect at least 3,000 urine samples. We literally went -- besides what we did at the clinic when we came in, I went with [Dr. Jampolis?] and we literally knocked on doors and collected urine samples of people with some kids. JJ: So right at their house. CC: Right at their house. (laughs) We came out of this one building and I looked at [Sam?] and there were tears rolling down his face. I says, “Sam, what’s the matter?” He said, “I didn’t realize people had to live like that.” Paint peeling off and barely any furniture or food. The tears were rolling down his face. But what we did was we collected over 4,000 samples. We only were supposed to get 3,000 but of course, the Patriots have to do it a little better. So we got over [00:34:00] 4,000 urine samples a lot of which we did at our clinic because we did have a lab and stuff. But we took them to the Board of Health who was supposed to be doing this in the beginning and they weren’t testing for lead poisoning. Then they opened a -- JJ: So did they do it then? Did they test for -- CC: They did it then. Oh, yeah. Because Gordon Lang who is a very well-respected doctor, he did kidney transplants and stuff. They would’ve maybe messed with us but they weren’t going to mess with these doctors who were well-respected. They put up -- they tried to close our clinic down but when the Board of Health came and checked us out and checked our chart, they said we were better run than the Board of Health. Because we had everything in order. [00:35:00] We 22 �took no grants because if you take grants, you have to go by their guidelines. So everything was all voluntary. We were all self-running. We took no federal money because like I said, then they could tell you how to run it and what to do and we didn’t want to do that. But they wanted -- in order to -- okay. We only ran four nights a week. Then we started on Saturdays, we had. We were a limited number of people. So my husband Doug and the Young Patriots, they got together with some of the people in the community like [Ed Farmlat?] who was in charge of a bunch of halfway houses and some other people they talked to to try to get a public health hospital there in the area to take up the slack of what we couldn’t. We could only do so much. [00:36:00] The Board of Health decided that this group was fine and everything and they would set up and that the community could run it. That was a lie told, okay? Because when they finally got everything, then they said, “No, the community was not capable of making decisions, medical decisions,” after several years of the Patriots (laughs) running a free medical clinic without their help. So they set up this public health hospital which had been an old marine -JJ: So the hospital was saying that the community can’t run it? CC: They can’t run it. JJ: But the Patriots had run it. CC: The Patriots ran their own better than the Board of Health and better than anything they ever had. I’m not bragging but that’s the truth. JJ: Doctors were saying it, you know? 23 �CC: Yeah, the doctors. [00:37:00] But the Board of Health and the politicians. “Oh no, you can’t run your -- this public health hospital.” I had to go with [Ted Stein?] who was our attorney, the legal aid, lawyer, to the state’s attorney’s office because I was the bookkeeper and the -- to tell them about our clinic. I got there and he asked me what we did. I told him. I said, “Most of our patients are ambulatory.” Now, the state’s attorney looks me in the face and says, “How many ambulances do you have?” I said, “I have...” I really had to control myself. I said, “No, sir. Ambulatory means they’re able to walk on their own and they don’t need wheelchair access. (laughs) We have no ambulances.” (laughs) I was very proud of myself; I did not laugh out loud. [00:38:00] But when we got outside, Ted Stein said, “I can’t believe he asked that.” Yeah, he did. “How many ambulances do you have?” Well anyway, they opened this public health hospital and they were giving lousy treatment to the people in the community. I myself went there a couple weeks. Then we planned -- we were going to try to get them to stay open on weekends and longer hours because their hours were lousy and people were being turned away. So a couple weeks before that, we decided to send spies in and to see just how people were treated. I went into this doctor’s office and I described to him a urinary tract infection which I did not have. The only reason I knew all the information is from working in the clinic. They never took a urine sample from me. They never examined me. [00:39:00] I walked out of that office with two prescriptions for a urinary tract infection which I didn’t have. Then in a couple weeks, we -- on a Friday evening, we took about a hundred people there to that clinic. It was just before closing and came in there and said, 24 �“Oh, people can’t come in.” We had our doctors with us and the Visiting Nurses Association said they were going to take care of people or we were going to take over the rooms and examine the people ourself with our doctors. When we first got there, there were a whole bunch of police there waiting for us because they -it was supposed to be a secret. It was something with -- but somehow, it got out. They said if we didn’t leave, they were going to arrest us and we said we were not leaving. Then they brought seven paddy wagons [00:40:00] and arrested 43 of us of which I was 1. They arrested our doctors. Murry Brown (laughs) was down there. He was in charge of the Board of Health and said to Gordon Lang, “Please Gordon, don’t make me arrest you.” Gordon said, “If you’re going to arrest my people, you’re arresting me.” So they not only arrested the community people, they arrested a gentleman who had been the chief psychiatrist for the Air Force. They arrested the head of the renal department at Presbyterian-St. Luke’s, the person who was in charge of the cancer department at Billings Hospital, (laughs) all these people. They dropped seven paddy wagons, they arrested us, and took us to 11th and State. Then we had to go up like night court and they -JJ: Then the State is the central police station. The lockup. CC: Eleventh and State, yeah, that’s the big lockup. [00:41:00] They put us in all these cells. The thing that disturbed me about it is the men... With the women, they took away our glasses, everything from us. Plus those -- the matrons, they harassed the VNA. They did body cavity searches on them which was ridiculous. The men, they gave baloney sandwiches and let them keep their cigarettes and 25 �everything. The women, they just treated us -- they just herded us in there like cattle. There were 43 of us. So then we -- they brought us out and we had to go before a judge. They released us on our own recognizance. Okay, there were 43 of us. And when we went to court, the judge said, “Everybody arrested at 4141 [Thurman?], please come up to the front of the (laughs) front of the -- you know.” JJ: In a courtroom (crosstalk) CC: [00:42:00] Forty-three people stood up and (inaudible), “What is going on?” The VNA got in trouble, the Visiting Nurses Associa-- because they were wearing their uniforms when they got arrested. (laughter) But they were still allowed to come to our clinic, but yeah, it was funny. JJ: This protest was for what, I mean? CC: Huh? JJ: This protest was for what? CC: Because of the lousy treatment they were giving to people at that public health hospital. Their hours were not conducive to people being able to get there, they would close early, they were not open on weekends, they had no evening hours. The fact that I went in there and got two prescriptions for an infection I didn’t even have and was never examined. So they closed that place down. They did close it. It had been an old military hospital type thing. It was not quite the VA, but similar. [00:43:00] That’s what they gave us which was nothing. (laughs) Yes, I was -- okay. (laughs) My mother and my father -- my father was very proud of what I was doing. My mother was a little leery. The next day, oh. When 26 �we went to court, we got -- all they -- we got off -- it was dismissed as trespassing on public property. We were trespassing on public property. But the day after, I went to the clinic -- it was a Saturday. I was opening up the clinic and the phone, the pay phone was ringing, and it was my mother. (laughs) I said, “Hi.” She said, “Do you think that’s funny?” I said, “What are you talking about, ma?” JJ: Her name? I’m sorry. CC: Evelyn. Her name is Evelyn. I said, “What are you talking about?” JJ: What’s your father’s name again? CC: Ross. And my father, Ross. But my -- [00:44:00] (laughs), “Do you think that’s funny?” I said, “What are you talking about, Mom?” She said, “Did you see the Sun-Times this morning?” I said, “No, I just got here to the clinic so I don’t know.” She said, “Well, go buy yourself a copy of the Sun-Times.” (laughs) I said, “All right.” So I went downstairs and I got a copy of the Sun-Times. Right on the front page is me in the paddy wagon smiling. (laughs) JJ: Hmm. Oh, your mom was angry. CC: Oh, she was upset that I’d been arrested. I mean, she liked the idea of the clinic and then oh, no. That was a little different. (laughs) So I called her back and I -but my father carried that article and that picture in his wallet till the day he died. He was really proud and showed it to anybody that would look. JJ: Your father or father-in-law? CC: My father. JJ: Your mom couldn’t handle it. 27 �CC: Well, she kind of got it but I couldn’t -- [00:45:00] she says, “Do you think that’s funny?” I, “What are you talking about, ma? I don’t know what you’re talking about.” (laughs) But a friend of mine got some -- okay, they opened the Red Squad files or something and you could get it. A friend of mine got them -- JJ: Who is -- what is the Red Squad files? CC: The Red Squad was Mayor Daley’s police that he said didn’t exist that spied (laughs) on us and took pictures of us every time we came out of the clinic, all right? We would go like this (poses) and this (poses). JJ: So you knew they were watching? CC: Oh, yes, and we would pose and stuff. But they said that squad did not exist and only maybe in the last couple years, finally they admitted that there really was a thing called the Red Squad. JJ: And there were files. CC: And there were files but you would have to really know somebody to get them. I mean, they’re open, right? Like freedom of information? But everything is [00:46:00] blacked out just... However, when the person brought me these files, (laughs) the second page down, you know what was there? The picture of me in the paddy wagon. (laughs) And also, there was a thing about the Young Patriots that the alderman or something said, “You need to keep an eye on them,” and stuff. But there was other literature in there. But I couldn’t believe -- JJ: So the alderman (inaudible) -- CC: Yeah. They were -- yeah, that we were a danger to the community. JJ: Did you all get in the Red Squad car? 28 �CC: Yes. There is a cop, excuse me, a copy of that. The person that has them is supposed to get me copies of that. But I couldn’t believe second page down, there I am in the paddy wagon. (laughs) What used to get me is I -- JJ: You were -- CC: I didn’t understand why they -- I’m not a dummy. But why are they harassing us? All we’re trying to do is treat people like decent [00:47:00] human beings and see that they get the healthcare that they deserve. Or to -- with the food pantry, get some people who don’t have food food or clothing. Or trying... It seemed that if you were trying to make somebody’s life better whose life wasn’t that good, you were a communist or you were some kind of a terrorist. I never could understand that. It just amazing, simply amazing that -- JJ: You had said that you were raising [something?] around. Some supplies for the clinic? Is that (crosstalk) -- CC: Oh, we got those from Weiss Hospital. They gave us a -- [Dr. Sophol?], it was a Dr. Sophol who gave us a bunch of stuff and Bob Cross saw that we got some stuff. Some of the doctors also brought us stuff. But yeah, we were [00:48:00] run without anything from anybody. Really, like where they could tell us how we could run that clinic. Because if you allow them to tell you, then you’re no better than what you’re fighting against. So we were always self-sufficient. JJ: [Marta Chavita?] worked in the Young Lords -- CC: Marta Chavita. She worked -- okay. JJ: She worked in the Young Lords clinic. CC: Right, okay. 29 �JJ: How did you know her? CC: How did I know her? Because we would go on speaking engagements and talk to people and try to raise money for the clinics. JJ: Who’s we? CC: Okay. There was a -- the member from the Black Panthers was Doc Satchel, the Young Lords was Marta Chavita and myself from the Young Patriots. We got paid 300 dollars which we split between the three of us. We would go and talk to people. JJ: Who paid you? CC: Hmm? JJ: Who paid you? A school? CC: [00:49:00] No, it wasn’t a school. It was whatever group we went and talked to. Sometimes, we went and talked to college students. One time, I went and talked to 100 priests and nuns. (laughs) Scared me to death. Somebody told me, though, “Look out in the audience. Pretend they’re all naked.” (laughter) But that didn’t help; I was scared to death. But yeah, we would go try to raise money for the clinics. Then there was a trip to Canada where we -- I believe we thought we were going because it had something to do with medical care and stuff. Because they wanted one person from the Young Lords and one -- or a couple people from the Young Lords and some from the Patriots to go and some from the Black Panthers [00:50:00] also. So on the train were -- was Hilda Ignatin who was I believe at the time Latin American Defense Organization. Was she LADO then? I’m not sure. I think that’s what she was. 30 �JJ: I’m not sure. (phone rings) I’ll answer. (break in audio) CC: The Young Lords. Okay. We were invited and I don’t know who gave our names. There was -- women college students in Montreal wanted people from the clinics and stuff to come there to -- I thought it was about a health thing and I believed that Marta and everybody else believed that, too. We went on a train to Montreal and we stayed with some college students. They put us up in their apartments and stuff. Then we went to the college the next day [00:51:00] and while we were there, here came a procession of six little ladies. Three from North Vietnam and three from Laos. They marched and they went into the auditorium. When we got in there, we were seated in the auditorium. They had a screen, a movie screen, and what they showed us were pictures of our soldiers being shot down by the Vietnamese. I mean literally, they were shooting them and blowing up planes and everything. Afterwards, they said, “This is what’s happening to your soldiers over there. We don’t want to kill your brothers, your fathers, your -- and stuff; We want this war to end.” JJ: So these little Vietnamese. CC: They were Viet-- the tiniest little ladies you ever saw but they were [00:52:00] soldiers. JJ: Vietnamese women were there. CC: Yeah. They were soldiers, yeah. So then they said they were going to have a question and answer but all they wanted in there were third-world people. I’m not third-world; I’m Irish (laughs) -- an Irish Yankee (laughter) from Chicago. JJ: From Chicago. 31 �CC: Yeah, and so they didn’t want any white -- it was all women. It was all women. Okay. From the Young -- it was me from the Patriots. I don’t know the ladies from the Panthers but the Young Lords, it was Martha Chavita, a young lady named [Lupe?], [Guadalupe?], [Trinny?] and [Angie?]. JJ: [Angie Linn?]? (inaudible) CC: Okay. I didn’t know her last name. I know her face. I can -- yeah. JJ: Yeah, she was at the -- it was a women’s conference. CC: Yeah, it was a women’s conference. And so they wanted me to leave. Marta [00:53:00] and Lupe and them, they said, “No. She’s with us. If she’s not allowed in here, we’re leaving. We’re going. She’s --” They said, “She’s not third-world or what,” and Marta said, “What do you mean? Her name [Carmen?].” (laughter) My name tag said Carol. They got me a new name tag and for the -- I think we were there two days -- I had a name tag that said Carmen. (laughs) I loved those ladies. We got along so well and on the train -we were on the train a long time. They just were fantastic ladies and laughed and talked. We had a lot of things in common -- kids and the clinics. But while we were there, Angie got a phone call. When she came back, [00:54:00] it -- she said oh, her husband -- they told her her husband was in the hospital or been hurt or something and she had to go back to Chicago. JJ: Her husband named [Pancho?]. CC: Pancho, yeah. So she left. We got her on an airplane and got her out of there back to Chicago. What we came to find out was he was not in the hospital; he was not. He was, in fact, dead. That he had been walking down the street and 32 �two guys jumped out of a car and beat him to death with baseball bats and killed him. That’s something that when I think about -JJ: So Angie was a Young Lord and her husband was a Young Lord. CC: She was a Young Lord and her husband was a Young Lord, yes. To me, that’s something, Cha-Cha, that I never forgot ever since then. When I think about Canada, I think about what we [00:55:00] -- the movie and all that other stuff. But that’s what stands out in my mind that some moron would just because somebody was not white. I had been down South, we had been down South organizing -- JJ: Was he killed because he was Puerto Rican? CC: Because he was Puerto Rican. Yes, yes, yes. JJ: Mexican and Puerto Rican. CC: I had been down South and we had marched with King and stuff. I never saw anything like that. Ever. And it was terrible. We were threatened down there and everything. But for that to happen in Chicago to me was just unconscionable. I had a hard time dealing with that after I -- (laughs) JJ: You got to know Angie while you were there? What do you remember? What do you remember of Angie? CC: I got to know Angie and Marta. I remember her being a very sweet young lady. [00:56:00] Mostly, we talked. All of us when we were there -- like I said, our kids and the clinic. Just a bunch of ladies yap yap yapping. At night, we would -- we had sleeping bags and stuff. We slept on the floor in this apartment with these college students and stuff. We would be gigglin’ and stuff. We were supposed to 33 �be sleeping because we had to go (laughs) -- we would just be giggling like a pajama party or... (laughs) We were just so professional. We went to some French restaurants because we were in -- and that’s the first time I ever had crepes. We just walked around the city. But they were kind of leery of people coming in at that time because not too long before that, a prime minister or something had been [00:57:00] kidnapped by some left-wing people. I don’t remember who that was. So they were a little leery about anybody that was to the left a little bit. I’m trying to think. JJ: What about Marta? You got to know Marta. CC: I knew Marta pretty well, yeah. JJ: What do you remember about Marta? CC: Just that she was really nice and very sweet and intelligent. Very intelligent lady. JJ: Okay. She worked with you. She went and got stuff for the clinic, you said? CC: No, we went and we gave talks about the clinic. Yeah. It was always us. JJ: You said she’s -- CC: But sometimes, Doug and I would go over there and just visit with her and [Alberto?]. JJ: Okay, so the -- CC: Yeah, we kind of socialized with them. JJ: Because Alberto was also a Young Lord. CC: Yeah, her husband. Him and Doug got along real well. JJ: Because [00:58:00] at that time, was there a coalition or something or...? CC: Yeah, it was the Rainbow Coalition. Yeah. 34 �JJ: Who was that? (inaudible) CC: I believe that was the -- that was Chuck Geary, the Patriots, the Lords, the Panthers, some other people. JJ: You said that was the Rainbow Coalition. CC: That was the Rainbow Coalition. JJ: So that’s when you guys, you went to speak together -- the women. CC: Right. The three -- the Black, the Latin, and the white person was me. JJ: (inaudible) time together. CC: Yeah. The three of us. JJ: You guys were just talking about -- you were representing the -- CC: I was representing the Young Patriots, Marta the Young Lords, and Doc Satchel, the Black Panthers. Yeah. JJ: Do you remember what places you spoke at? CC: No. We went different places. Like sometimes, a school. Sometimes, it was just in a -- at a room where people came. JJ: Then the money was divided? CC: The money was divided between the three people. Yeah, so -- well, the three clinics, not the three people. I didn’t get the money personally. Yeah, right. JJ: (crosstalk) It went to the clinic. (inaudible) Okay. Tell me about Doug. (inaudible) CC: Okay. What can I tell you about Doug Youngblood? I met him when I was 16 years old. He was new to the neighborhood and he started hanging out with my brother. 35 �JJ: Who is your brother? CC: My brother Ross. JJ: You told me three times already. CC: Then he would -- that’s all right. He would come to my house with my brother supposedly to look at comic books because they -- I know they were 16 but they were still into the comic books [01:00:00] and stuff. He kind of liked me but I had another boyfriend who would get really upset because (laughs) when he would come to bring me home, there would be Doug sitting there with my brother. The young man I was going with got in some trouble and got sent to Minnesota. He had gone to the Audy Home and the way that his mother got him out was to send him to his brother’s in Minnesota. So he was gone and Doug was there. (laughs) And he pursued me. JJ: He persuaded you. CC: He pursued me. JJ: He pursued you. CC: We lived in an apartment building where there was a basement where you did your laundry. Everybody had their washing machine in there and stuff. One night, he went down there to help me carry the laundry back up. When we were going out, he stood in front of the basement door, told me I wasn’t getting out of there unless I gave him a kiss which I did. First I said, “Get out of my way,” but then he was [01:01:00] -- and we -- then we were together for a long time. Then he moved to Michigan -- Jackson, Michigan because his -- with his mom and stuff. So we were separated for a while but when he came back, we got together 36 �and eventually got married and had a son, Jason, and got involved. His mother was married to this guy [Gil Terry?] who -- I remember when I first met Doug, he said to me, “My stepfather is a communist.” I said (nods) but he was. Gil Terry was a communist. JJ: Is it Doug’s...? CC: Doug’s stepfather, yeah. They were involved in politics and stuff and you know, sure. JJ: [01:02:00] But why is he telling you that? CC: He told me that after we’d been together for -- because I think -- Doug at first told me that -- JJ: Did he look at that bad or good or...? CC: Bad. JJ: That he was a communist? CC: Yeah, because he was a communist and we (inaudible). But all Gil was was, Gil Terry, was a man. He cared about people and like us and he politicized Peggy, Doug’s mother Peggy, and (crosstalk) got her involved in stuff. Peggy Terry is -yeah, it’s Peggy Terry. Yeah. JJ: Peggy Terry, isn’t she the one that ran for...? CC: She ran for vice president of the United States on the Peace and Freedom Party ticket with Eldridge Cleaver. And I have a bumper sticker some place that says that. JJ: That’s your mother-in-law. 37 �CC: My mother-in-law, yes. Who was a great lady who really taught me most of what I know about anything. She politicized me. (laughs) I always cared about people. You know what I’m saying. [01:03:00] But I -- JJ: How did she get to the Peace and Freedom? What was she doing to get up there? CC: When JOIN came in, they got her involved in all that. It was them. JJ: It was them. So she was a member of JOIN? CC: Yeah. But she also -- they had this thing that was called WRDA, Welfare Recipients Demand Action. We had a block club and a tenants union. Also, we used to go to South Water Market and we had a food coop where we bought food for real cheap and stuff. We had one lady (laughs) that was in charge of the money and her and her husband [Dominic?], they decided to take off with the money (inaudible). So you had to be careful. But then I took charge of it so [01:04:00] and I did run away with the money. (laughs) But see, my background at that time was in bookkeeping and stuff. So I was real good about keeping books and keeping -- JJ: How did you get into that? CC: Bookkeeping? From high school. I learned in high school. Then I went to comptometer school. Comptometer, it was an adding machine. It was 10 keys across and 10 keys up and down. That’s what you added stuff. I could do that without looking like a typewriter could type stuff. I worked for ACNielsen as a comptometer operator. (break in audio) 38 �JJ: Testing one, two, three. Go ahead. Go ahead and say something. Go ahead and say something, Carol, please. CC: Hello. JJ: Okay. CC: Can you hear me? JJ: Testing one, two, three. This is interview number two. (break in audio) Okay, we [01:05:00] were talking about Doug, you said? CC: Yeah. I mean, here’s this young man who grew up in Ozark, Alabama, Paducah, Kentucky and stuff. Had never gone to high school, never graduated. I think he graduated from grammar school, never went to high school, not much of an education, who could write the most beautiful poetry, like political poetry, and just write up -- write on everything imaginable and who sounded like he had a college degree. (laughs) Honest to God. He was amazing -- an amazing man. But he -- JJ: How far did he go to school? CC: He only went to eighth grade. He never went to -- but he’s -- he got a GED in later years when we were in our 20s and then went to Northeastern also. [01:06:00] But he gave a poetry class at Stanford University (laughs) once. But he wrote political poetry and stuff and read. That man -- JJ: What kind of stuff did he write and [read?]? CC: It was against I don’t know, the police and the government. [Hythern?] has some of his poetry I gave him. Plus we put out a poetry book, the Young Patriots, called Time of the Phoenix and some of his poetry is in there. But he just -yeah. He was just amazing and he was reading all the time. I just cleared out 39 �the basement of books. He had books on everything imaginable. Nothing disinterested him. I mean, he’d read just everything. Not just political stuff; everything. And he was into -- he started painting. Oh, his paintings are upstairs. But [01:07:00] painting. Just beautiful. I didn’t know he could do that. He just was into everything. He was an amazing man and he passed away four years ago. JJ: You said cancer. CC: Cancer but we were together. We weren’t married that long, but we were together 50 years. JJ: Fifty years? CC: Fifty years. Yeah. Because we met in ’58 and he died in ’08. We were together 50 years so it was a long time. And I miss him; I really miss him. There were times I wonder (laughs) that I even miss that. That’s power for when you’re married to somebody. We just weren’t the -- what the -- [01:08:00] like on the TV families where everybody’s so happy. We weren’t like that. But we did pretty good. JJ: But you did pretty good, right? I mean you were happy sometimes. (inaudible) CC: Oh, we were happy most of the time. It’s just every once in a while. That was always all his fault, of course. (laughter) I would like to believe that but I know it’s not the truth. Yeah. JJ: But how were the Young Patriots? Did you know each other pretty well or did you visit each other or...? CC: What, with the Young Patriots? 40 �JJ: Yeah. CC: Oh, we were married when we got into the Young Patriots because we’d been together since we were 16. Like I said, he moved away because Peggy moved to Paducah -- not Paducah -- Jackson, Michigan. He was gone a couple years and then he came back and we were together after that. JJ: Okay, you want to talk about Peggy, too. What about...? CC: Peggy. When I met Peggy, I was 16 and she was like 36 [01:09:00] years old. The most amazing woman you ever want to meet in your entire life. She just -you’re talking about a woman I don’t think even finished public school, grammar school or anything. Had no real education at all who became -- it’s because of her. She was like a historian, too. She kept all this stuff from all those years ago and just got into and started becoming very vocal. Talking about welfare, the police. She worked with doc-- very closely with Dr. King and she marched in Mississippi. She wound up with 12 broken vertebrae in her back because when the police beat them with fire hoses. That’s not fair. She was an [01:10:00] amazing woman. Just an amazing lady. For coming from -- she’s just a little -she’s a little hillbilly girl. Dumb hillbilly girl, didn’t know nothing and then she just (snapped). She was the first person, the first white person, that was on Jet magazine. I -- yeah. I don’t know if you’ve heard of Jet magazine. JJ: Yeah, I have. CC: Yeah. She was the first white person that was on there. They have an article on her. JJ: I’ll look at it. 41 �CC: Yeah, yeah. She worked -- mainly, she started out with the civil rights stuff. But that was because of Gil. Like I say, he was a -- into politics and he got her involved. I don’t think he realized what he created when he started politicizing her (laughs) because she just went -- she was just amazing. JJ: [01:11:00] So she did a lot of stuff in Uptown? CC: Oh, a whole lot. A lot of stuff in Uptown. JJ: (crosstalk) Were you living in Uptown then or...? CC: Yeah, we lived in Uptown. And she -- yeah. JJ: How long did you live there? CC: We lived there up until the ‘70s. JJ: From what year? CC: Okay. We lived there from about 1965 to 1973. JJ: Oh was it? CC: Yeah. JJ: What was it like then? CC: Uptown. Uptown? It was like the ghetto. It was a lot of slum buildings and stuff. A lot of crime. (laughs) JJ: How did it feel like? CC: I was used to that. (laughter) JJ: You [01:12:00] called it the ghetto but you were living there. (laughs) CC: I didn’t know the word ghetto till I -- they politicized it with ghetto. What are you talking about ghetto? (inaudible) JJ: (laughs) This is my hangout. 42 �CC: Yeah, right, this is my neighborhood. (laughs) JJ: So how was it? Was it a neighborhood or did people know each other or...? CC: Well, not really. People, I think, were suspicious of each other. It was a very diverse community. There were Blacks, whites, Hispanics, some Orientals, and stuff. They -- until JOIN came and they got to -- I don’t think the people were that close together. You know what I’m saying? And then JOIN kind of organized them and people got -- you got to know your neighbors were... Like I said, the neighborhood I grew up in, you knew everybody in the building and all the kids in your neighboring buildings and stuff. But that was the [01:13:00] ‘40s, ‘50s. Now, this is a little different and nobody, I don’t think, knew each other or trusted each other (laughs) all that much. Then they came together with the block club and that we had a tenants union and a (coughs) -- and a food coop. Plus, we -we had our hands in a little bit of everything. There was a lady, [Kit Komatsu?], who came. Peggy brought her back from -- when they were marching in Mississippi, she brought her to town, Kit Komatsu. Had a group that was called CAMP, Chicago Area Military Project. What they did was they printed up a newspaper and took it to military camps and soldiers because it was against the war but not against the soldiers. Do you know what I’m saying? Because there were some soldiers that were involved in that. One I remember particularly, his name was [Jeff Sharlet?]. He had been a [01:14:00] special forces. He would sit there and tell us about how they used to go in these towns in Vietnam and literally kill the mayor and stuff. What he wound up and a lot of soldiers was that Agent Orange. He wound up -- see, that’s the thing. They were spraying all this 43 �stuff but they weren’t getting the Vietnamese; They were getting our soldiers, too. A lot of our soldiers came back with that Agent Orange and cancer and all this. Then she -- Peggy brought her in and we started this newspaper called Firing Line where she would keep me up, Kit, till three o’clock in the morning (laughs) cutting with an X-Acto knife to make these little cows and all this. (laughter) I hated that newspaper. I didn’t hate it but I hated to have to [01:15:00] because she would not let me out. The Young Patriots Bobby Joe -- okay, Peggy was very political and Bobby Joe McGinnis, Junebug and I’m trying to -- and somebody else and I. There was a program on TV called The Fugitive and it was the last night when they were going to catch the one-arm man. We got up out of a meeting, a tenants’ meeting. Me, Bobby, and Junebug (laughs) went to my house to watch the last episode of The Fugitive. Peggy was so mad at us. We said, “We don’t care about the tenants’ union. We got to see -- catch the onearm man.” (laughs) Well, what can I say? (laughs) And over the years, she used to bring that up (laughs) about how we were more interested in The Fugitive than the -- well, anyway. They survived without [01:16:00] us. JJ: What about -- you mentioned Chuck Geary before. CC: Chuck Geary. JJ: Did you know him pretty good or...? CC: Yeah, I knew him and I -- well -- JJ: Because he was an activist there, right? CC: Yeah, he was -- Hythern would be more because he was involved with him. I knew Chuck Geary and I -- his daughter [Marcella?] ran around with us. I was 44 �close to Marcella. In fact, I can’t find her. We talked to her in 2007. She used to call here and I know she’s in Texas someplace. But we can’t... I tried calling the phone number I had and it’s disconnected. So but that -- Marcella. Yeah, Chuck Geary, he was a good guy and stuff. But he was more for working within the system rather than trying to change -- to work along with people. His idea of helping people and somebody said it was a good id-- [01:17:00] he bought a bunch of (laughs) chicken farms and threw these people out there and they were raising chickens. (laughter) I’m sorry. (snorts) JJ: They were raising chickens? CC: Yes. They were -- JJ: So you didn’t think that was a good thing? CC: No. (laughter) I guess the -- JJ: What should they have been doing instead of raising chickens? CC: They had nothing so he’s -- he set them up and whatever. They had all these chicken farms and I think that was in Kentucky. (laughs) I’m not sure. I -Hythern could probably tell you more (laughs) about the chicken farms. JJ: So chicken were going back and forth to Kentucky? Is that what you’re saying? CC: I think they all moved down there is what -- but he had all these chickens. (laughs) JJ: Oh, he moved them there -- CC: He moved them there. (laughs) JJ: -- to a chicken farm. (laughter) 45 �CC: [01:18:00] He always reminded me of one of those southern preachers, Chuck Gea-- because he was always preaching. He was the Reverend Chuck Geary. I don’t know which church (laughs) he was at, but he was a Reverend Chuck Geary. JJ: He had some (inaudible) CC: (laughter) Yeah, right. But -- JJ: But he preached pretty good or...? CC: Oh yeah, oh yeah. And he had a lot of people that believed in him. And he was not a bad person, Chuck. I like Chuck Geary. JJ: You didn’t like chickens. CC: I -- no. (laughter) I was not about to go to the chicken farm. (laughs) My chicken, it’s got to be plucked and on my plate. That’s the only thing I want with chicken, but -- JJ: I did hear he was a good leader. CC: He was a good leader. I mean, he could -- he had a -- he could talk. You know what I’m saying? And make you believe everything he was saying. [01:19:00] Not that he wasn’t honest. You know what I’m saying. But oh yeah, he was very -- JJ: He worked kind of within the system and you wanted to -- CC: Right, and we were revolutionaries. That’s what we considered ourself revolutionary. JJ: What does that mean? 46 �CC: We would fight for what we believe rather than try to work or take concessions or make concessions. That’s my understanding of revolutionary. We were rabblerousers. JJ: How did -- there’s another -- a better word. Rabble-rousers. CC: Yeah, rabble-rousers, yeah. JJ: But you would fight for what you believe instead of compromising. CC: Right, what we believe in. Yeah, or compro-- or taking -- that’s why we never took federal funding or anything for the clinic. Because I said once you let those people in, they’ll tell you how to run it. Before you know it, you’re not running it at all, they’re running [01:20:00] it. The reason we started the clinic to begin with was so we could do better than what they had. JJ: Okay. So in Uptown, you had -- so okay. So they can do better than what they had? CC: We could do better. The community and the community was well able to tell us what they wanted or to do for themselves. See, that was the problem with -when JOIN came, when the students came. In the beginning, it was really good because they brought all these ideas and everything. However, they didn’t want to let go and they sometimes treated the people like they were little children or something and that they had to be told what to do. These women that they were organizing and stuff were becoming more powerful and more -- and thinking more and wanting more. And able to vocalize that and go and do some. But the students didn’t want to let go. [01:21:00] It’s like little children -- you cannot... 47 �They told them, “We don’t need you. We’re not little children, we’re not idiots and we know what we want. We’re not your little project.” (laughs) JJ: Like they’re parenting -- they were parenting. CC: Yeah, right. JJ: Patronizing probably. Something like that. CC: Oh yeah, patronizing. Yeah. So a lot of the students were good people -- JJ: So the majority of the students -- they just later on, they got into -- they got into patronizing. CC: Yeah. In the beginning, too. “Oh, we’re going to save the community,” and all this and that’s okay. But if you’re going to teach people, you got to let go. It’s like with children. You got to let your kid walk on his own. You kind of watch maybe to make sure they’re not going to fall down a hole or something. But you got to let go. See? They didn’t [01:22:00] want to let go. JJ: So the Patriots believe in letting go so that then people could go by themselves -- CC: Right. (crosstalk) and various people became more knowledgeable about what they were entitled to and what they could do. JJ: So they were not just giving handouts. (crosstalk) CC: That’s right, that’s right. People were doing things and people were starting to feel good about themselves. Yeah, I can make a difference, you know? But the students were like, “You can’t do this without us.” So that’s that. Like they moved into the neighborhood -- okay. (laughs) I shouldn’t tell this story. There was a young lady and she moved into one of the apartments, one of the [Claremont?] building apartments. Once a week, her parents, chauffer and the 48 �maid would come and clean her apartment and take her laundry and do her laundry. However, she was living in poverty. She saw that as living in poverty and I’m not going to mention her name because she is pretty well-known. [01:23:00] I said to her, “What’s the matter with you? Do you really think these women can relate to you?” Here you are, your chauffer and your -- and they would pull up in a limo or whatever and (laughs) they’d come clean her apartment. They never worked. All right? That’s another thing is they -- a lot of these people, if you [wanted?] them over, a lot of women were out working trying to support their families. These students were not working. I don’t know where their money was coming from. It had to have been from their mothers and fathers or whatever. You can’t say, “We’re just like you.” You’re not. But they were well-meaning. I don’t mean to cut them that because there were a lot of -they meant well. They just didn’t know when to let go. And there -- [01:24:00] what can I say? (laughs) JJ: I understand that they -- that it was important to let go to create sort of -- CC: Right. They created something. They gave people tools to work with and I think they didn’t expect that they were going to get the -- that they were going to succeed. JJ: (laughs) CC: You know what I’m saying? (laughs) What’s the thing? (inaudible) “I’m going to do this,” and all of a sudden just... These people really have voices and they can really express themselves and they can do things and make decisions for 49 �themselves. It was like, “Hmm, be careful what you wish for,” (laughs) kind of thing. JJ: So what was the -- what kind of issues did you program with JOIN and all that? CC: I wasn’t involved that much in JOIN -- not myself. I just know this from my mother-in-law who was Peggy Terry. JJ: [01:25:00] For example, what was the housing like in Uptown? CC: The housing was terrible. JJ: It wasn’t -- CC: You had buildings where the back porches were literally falling. The kids were falling through the porches and some getting killed or maimed or there was painting peeling off the ceilings and stuff. The lead paint. They didn’t -- the halls were filled with trash and stuff. I mean, it’s just terrible. The buildings were -- JJ: Were these two- or three-storey buildings or...? CC: Yeah, yeah. These had been nice buildings at one point. But the landlords, all they did was take the rent and they never fix up the property. And if you didn’t like it, you could move. That’s the way it was. A lot of it was like there weren’t leases, see? It was like monthly. [01:26:00] Or some places, there were some furnished places that were weekly and stuff like that. And then urban renewal decided they were going to come in and -- JJ: So what happened there? CC: Urban renewal? They wanted to build that Truman College over there on Wilson Avenue and they were going to tear down a bunch of the buildings. We fought them about that because what are you going to do about the people that are 50 �living here? Are you going to move them into...? They did give people like a first month’s rent. They had to find an apartment and then they would pay the first month’s rent to move there or wherever. But they had to find their own. They were going to just tear down these buildings and where are these people going to go? And they didn’t care. JJ: This was the city. CC: The city, yeah. Urban renewal because they wanted to build the -- which they did, the Truman College. (laughs) Terrible. JJ: Now, this was [01:27:00] you. This was the -- CC: The JOIN. That was JOIN. JJ: (crosstalk) CC: Yeah, and all Young Patriots, we went there to the meetings with urban renewal and we fought with the Uptown National Bank (laughs) is who was -- JJ: The Uptown National Bank was part of it? It was -- CC: Yeah. It was part of the urban renewal and this [Yurania Dumofley?] was her name. They didn’t care about the people. I can get rid of the -- see, you get rid of the neighborhood, you get rid of the people. It was in Uptown there, there was one street, I can’t think of the name where [Ed Farr?] lived, it’s all mansions. In the middle of the ghetto, there’s this street where there’s all mansions and all these rich people live. We said to them, “Would you like some of our tenants to come move in your neighborhood? [01:28:00] (laughs) Maybe you can put us up in some of the buildings you have there.” No, no, they didn’t want any part of that. So where are you gonna move these people? But -- 51 �JJ: When did you move from Uptown? CC: I moved from Uptown in 1973. I moved actually into Edgewater and then into Rogers Park. I lived in Rogers Park, yeah. JJ: (crosstalk) You skipped one there. Now, were you being pushed out or you just went on your own? CC: No, I just went on my own. And I worked for ATA which was Aid to Alcoholics and that came out of the mental health center. We opened up the men medical detox center and I worked there. Okay. And that, I moved to Rogers Park and -- JJ: How did you get into that over there? CC: Because [01:29:00] of the mental health center, I worked with United Charities with geriatrics. But I was more interested in working with drug addicts and alcoholics and stuff. So -- JJ: Why were you into that? CC: Because most of the people (laughs) I ran around with were like that. Also at the time, I had kind of an alcohol problem myself. We had a storefront and then we opened up -- JJ: I mean, you became like a counselor. CC: A counselor, yeah. A counselor. But the terrible thing was I was also at that time drinking. (laughs) JJ: Drinking and counseling at the same time. CC: But most of the counselors and stuff were recovering alcoholics that worked in there. I was still a practicing alcoholic. (laughter) I didn’t know I was practicing but I was practicing. But then we -- 52 �JJ: Don’t they call it denial or something? CC: Yeah, denial. Absolutely. [01:30:00] And then the man who ran it was Reverend Jack Norgaard. That was [Lutheran Welfare Services?] ran that. He knew that I had a problem because people would see me out on the street and stuff. He came to my house and said to me -- never threatened my job, nothing. “You’ve got one week to get Jason,” my son, because Doug and I were split up at that time. Have Peggy, my mother-in-law, take care of Jason. He was taking me out to Mercy center in Aurora here for the alcohol treatment program. Because he said, “There’s people that are really concerned about you and they don’t want to see -- they want to see you live a little longer.” I’m thinking, “Oh, Jack. I’m not an alcoholic.” Anyway. So I let him take me out there to Mercy center and I haven’t had a drink since 1975 -- October of 1975. JJ: [01:31:00] That’s -- CC: Thirty-three years. Well, no, it wasn’t. Thirty-seven years. JJ: Congratulations. That’s pretty good. CC: But I -- JJ: Did you go to any program or did you just...? CC: Yeah, I went to -- it was an alcohol treatment program they have at Mercy center and -- JJ: And how long were you there? CC: I was there for 30 days. Okay? When I came back out, I went back to work at the drop-in center, the storefront we had. Then in a couple months, I helped open the non-medical detox center. We had a building that used to be a nursing 53 �home. There were like three floors and I worked in triage where the police would bring us people off the street and stuff. JJ: You detoxed. CC: Yeah, we detoxed. JJ: I worked in a detox. CC: Did you? JJ: Yeah. CC: But it was non-medical so they -- we had a lot of people shaking and -- JJ: Shakes and all that. CC: Yeah. Yeah. JJ: Mine was medical. They had a (inaudible). CC: [01:32:00] Was it medical? Where did you work, Cha-Cha? JJ: I was in Michigan. CC: Oh, in Michigan? JJ: (inaudible). I started in Chicago -- I was a counselor in Chicago, too. CC: Oh. JJ: (inaudible) CC: Yeah, and I got an ENT card -- JJ: Before the counseling, I started on my own. (laughs) CC: Oh, you were like me. Yeah. JJ: (laughs) (crosstalk) CC: That’s it. I never looked back and I’ve never regretted. Never regretted giving that up. I used to tell Jack, Reverend Norgaard, I’d say, “You saved my life.” 54 �“No, I didn’t.” I’d say, “Yes, you did. You saved my life. You really saved my life.” And the thing about it was a lot of the people that they brought into the detox (laughs) that were people I drank with. They listened to me because they knew I had been there and done that. The only problem is -JJ: It really helps you if you’re helping somebody else. CC: Oh, yeah. And I had to go to AA and one of the counselors at the storefront we had, him and his wife, every night, they took me to AA and I’d (inaudible)... [01:33:00] They took me to this one place that used to be a funeral home. I would be sitting in a chair and right across the street, there was a tavern and this Budweiser sign would flash on and I would think this is hell. (laughs) This is hell. I’m being punished. (laughter) JJ: (inaudible) CC: But I ran AA meetings. We had a -- like a dining room type thing. I got paid to play Pinochle with these... (laughs) When I worked triage, then I worked with the people that were really when they first came in and stuff. But then when I worked on the second floor, I used to get to go in the day room and play Pinochle. Now, they used to call me the warden. I worked on third shift and I would come in and people would be running to their rooms. “Here comes the warden,” right? I knew they were bringing [01:34:00] booze in somehow -- somehow. I sat one night and I waited and I heard noise and I went down by the day room. Here, they had a rope outside the window and somebody was standing in the gangway and they were pulling booze through the window and I busted them. Then I went from room to room and the ceiling tiles. Went up in there and I got every bottle I could 55 �find -- I mean stuff. I had a setup at the nurses’ station. Just say goodbye -wave bye-bye. (laughs) That’s how they started to call me the warden because I made a raid and (crosstalk) I said, “This is a -- you’re busted. It’s not going to happen anymore.” (crosstalk) But it -- I loved those guys. I would be standing on the corner in Chicago waiting for the bus and here would come one of the drunk, “Carol.” They’d be hugging me and people would be looking at me. (laughs) I was like, “Oh my God.” [01:35:00] I knew every drunk in Uptown. (laughter) Yeah. That was exciting. That’s what I did. JJ: So you get clean you said 37 years or...? CC: I’ve been sober 37 years. Yeah. Yeah. JJ: Thirty-seven years. CC: Yeah, thirty-seven years this month. JJ: (inaudible) CC: I never regretted it; Never ever. (laughs) I don’t know why I drank, in fact. You know what I’m saying? I don’t... But that’s something that was started when I was a teenager. I mean, that was the thing you did. You drank and -- JJ: You were a teenager when everybody was out on the same corner and that’s all they did. CC: Yeah, right. That’s all we did was drink. Some people did drugs. Like I said, I was terrified of drugs and I never... Now, when I got a little older, I did try. [01:36:00] I smoked pot. I didn’t inhale; Yes, I did. (laughs) But I never got into anything like needles. I hate needles and stuff like that. But you have your peers 56 �are there and they’re doing this and you -- so you decide you’re going to try it, but -JJ: In terms of the Young Patriots, what do you think was their contribution in the (inaudible)? CC: What was their contribution? JJ: Yeah. I mean their -- CC: Mostly, the clinic. They taught people that they didn’t have to treated like garbage, that they were worthwhile human beings. They had a right to have good healthcare, they a right to eat, (laughs) they had a right to live in conditions that weren’t falling [01:37:00] apart. They organized a lot of people -- a lot of community people. It was surprising that people got really involved. You start to feel like you’re worth something. Here, you got people telling you you’re a worthless hillbilly or something and you start to believe that. Then they saw that they weren’t. That they could do something. They could fight City Hall. Maybe we didn’t win all the time but you could do that. You were allowed to do that. You were allowed to stand up for yourself and say, “I am somebody and I deserve to be treated like somebody.” I believe that’s what the Patriots taught and I think the Patriots themselves. Here you got young guys that were just street hustlers who became different -- their lives are changed. They’re not in prison [01:38:00] which is probably where they would’ve wound up had they not gotten (inaudible) with stuff. They would probably be in prison or dead. I believe that. I really believe that. JJ: What are some final thoughts on that? 57 �CC: Hmm? JJ: Some final thoughts. CC: Final thoughts? I’m glad I was there, I’m glad I was involved. I’ve never been ashamed of what I was involved with. I would do it again. I don’t know about at this age because I can’t run as fast, for one thing. (laughter) Yeah. I’m glad I was there. I’m glad that maybe I made a difference; That I did change people’s lives or maybe educate people how they could change their lives. I’m glad I was here and I’ve never been ashamed. I’m not ashamed today. JJ: [01:39:00] Any other thoughts? Anything we forget to talk about? CC: No. I told you -- JJ: What about the relationship with the -- how did people feel between the Panthers and the Patriots or the Young Lords? CC: The Panthers. We didn’t have so much contact with the Panthers. The Panthers were -- let’s see -- on their own page. (laughs) How can I say? We were closer, I believe, to the Young Lords than the -- because the Young Lords, they ran their clinic and they were interested in the people. The Panthers? I don’t know. Sometimes I had some problems with them. JJ: What kind of problems? CC: They would call me on a -- when I was running the clinic one time and they said there’s a meeting. They were having a meeting and I had to come to this meeting. Because like I said, I was a certain -- that was my thing. [01:40:00] I said, “We’re running the clinic.” “Well, we’re the Black Panthers.” I said, “Look, I don’t care. When the clinic is over, then I will be there.” All right? All right. They 58 �had this -- these new cars and stuff and vehicles they were transporting. We had this little stinking station wagon (laughs) that was always breaking down. But -JJ: So you just didn’t have a lot of contact with them. That’s (inaudible). CC: Right. I had no animosity towards them but I really questioned their politics. The Chicago Panthers, anyway. JJ: What do you mean their politics? (crosstalk) CC: They were more -- I don’t know how to say this. (laughs) JJ: No, no, I think it’s fine. CC: It’s like -- JJ: You’re talking personally because (inaudible) -- of course there were, some of the other people were more [01:41:00] in communication with them -- with the Panthers. But you were in the clinic so you didn’t -- CC: Yeah, right. I was in the clinic and stuff and I just -- JJ: All you wanted to do was just do the clinic. CC: I just wanted to do what I was -- JJ: The clinic, right? CC: -- the clinic -- JJ: That’s what the Panthers -- CC: -- and to be helping people and -- JJ: And that’s what the Panthers wanted you to do anyway, right? CC: -- they just wanted to do, “Okay, it’s fine to beat your chest and all this other sun talk,” and sit here in a meeting and BS and talk about nothing as far as I’m concerned. I was about doing stuff. Like I said, I used to get in trouble 59 �sometimes because my mouth would go. But I’ve always been an upfront person, Cha-Cha. I’m not going to stand there and say, “Oh, okay. Yeah, well...” That’s not the way I am. (laughs) JJ: So you were a doer and you had to do -- you didn’t want to go to meetings. CC: Yeah, that’s -- I want to do and I don’t want to sit in meetings and just BS and not get anything accomplished. Just sit there and listen to yourself [01:42:00] talk is not my way of doing things. It doesn’t get anything done. That’s the problem I had with the JOIN students, too, is they were, “Me, me, me,” sitting there talking about nothing. What they wanted to do, what they were -- I don’t want to hear that. Get out there and do it. Who cares what you want to do? Get out there and do it. Or talk about philosophies or there’s a word I can’t. (gestures vomiting) Boring. So (inaudible). (laughter) I’m sorry, I have -- JJ: No, but you did get to speak with Doc Satchel and -- CC: Yeah, I liked Doc Satchel because -- oh, and that was another thing. If Doc Satchel couldn’t make it, somebody wouldn’t come from the Black Panthers. Then they expected us to share but we had to give them their 100 dollars. No, I’m sorry. That’s [01:43:00] not right because it was only me and somebody from the Young Lords that was there speaking. The Panthers were suppose-- but they didn’t because Doc was busy or something. To me, that’s not -- JJ: (laughs) It ain’t right. CC: “Give us our speaking fee.” No, you didn’t speak. JJ: So you didn’t want to give them that. CC: No, we didn’t. We didn’t. 60 �JJ: Now, what did you think about Fred Hampton? CC: I only met him one time and I didn’t know him. Mark Clark, I met many times. JJ: Was there -- they killed them. Was there something like that happening with the Patriots, too? Were the police after the Patriots? CC: Oh, the police were after the Patriots. But they just killed people on the street. They didn’t go into their apartments and roll them away which is what that jerk did. JJ: But they did (inaudible) him. CC: Oh yeah. JJ: So they didn’t plant it or anything, they just killed him on the street. CC: No. they went -- they planted it. They went in -- those people were sleeping, Cha-Cha. [01:44:00] They went in there and they killed them in their beds. I didn’t know for a long time that Doc Satchel was one of the people that got shot. Somehow, he got away but he was there the night that they killed Fred Hampton and Mark Clark. They went into there. I want to say was it Burke or Ed -- what was his name? JJ: [Hanrahan?], Hanrahan. CC: Hanrahan, him. Oh, that guy, I got to tell you a funny story. Hanrahan. They planted it. They just went in there and went into that apartment and blew people away in their sleep! I was at a bingo -- okay, 25 years ago or so at this church. In the hall comes Hanrahan running around shaking people’s hand. [01:45:00] He got to me and I just sat there. I said, “I don’t want to shake your hand, jerk.” (laughs) 61 �JJ: How come you didn’t want to shake his hand? CC: Because he had killed Fred Hampton. (laughs) I mean, he was responsible and I knew about it and he was a jerk. He was a real jerk. Oh, Hanrahan, going around, shaking all the bingo ladies’ hands. I don’t know what he was running for -- from them. He should’ve been running for his life is what he should’ve been doing. JJ: (laughter) Yeah. He was running (crosstalk). CC: Hiding in a hole. Yeah. I forget what it was. JJ: (inaudible) So (inaudible) [Youngblood?]? So I know you said that they killed some people on the street. But was the police, did they do any questioning afterwards? Why did the Young Patriots break up? CC: Oh, why did they break up? They [01:46:00] didn’t break up. People just went their own ways -- kind of moved, kind of moved. Junebug went to California and Bobby moved to Kentucky. People, the original Young Patriots. Doug and I, we moved. JJ: Mm-hmm. So you moved this way or...? CC: No. I moved to Rogers Park and I got into working with drug addicts and alcoholics. Kit Komatsu and David Komatsu, they kept up the clinic. They moved it over on [Gray Street?] and they kept it up. But people just drifted away. Nothing, nothing -- JJ: What about a preacher man or (inaudible)? CC: Now, preacher man. That’s a totally different thing. I never cared for him, (inaudible) -- never cared for him. 62 �JJ: But wasn’t he -- I thought he was from the neighborhood. CC: No, he was from -- he was a seminary student or [01:47:00] something -- JJ: (inaudible) CC: -- that my mother-in-law, Peggy Terry, when we were in Resurrection City after they killed King when we set up that city in Washington, D.C., he was there and they talked to him. Then he came to Chicago and worked with the Patriots. However, he had his own agenda and he was kind of a megalomaniac, I guess. (laughs) Megalomaniac? Is that what that -- megalomaniac? Like ego maniac? JJ: (crosstalk) CC: Yeah. A megalomaniac, because I do crossword puzzles. It has something -- no, well, that’s where I learned that word is self-important. Very self-important. (inaudible) Like I said, I never cared for him and I -- JJ: He wasn’t from Uptown. I thought he was from -- CC: No, he was from [01:48:00] North Carolina or South Carolina and he came here. JJ: So was he like a hillbilly, too, or...? (crosstalk) CC: Yeah, he was a hillbilly. JJ: Okay. Is that a good term? I don’t know. I -- CC: Oh, there’s nothing wrong with that. It used to be -- now, when I was young and stuff, if you called somebody a hillbilly, that was like using the n-word to a southerner. But then in the ‘60s and stuff, it became -- people were proud to be hillbillies. We used to say, “There’s only two kinds of people in this world: hillbillies and the people who wish they were hillbillies.” (laughs) But no, Peggy 63 �and them, they never had a problem being called hillbillies. And they used to tell me they loved me anyway even if I was a Yankee. JJ: Oh, okay. CC: Yeah, because I wasn’t a hillbilly. They told -- JJ: [01:49:00] Did they call you Yankee or no? CC: No. JJ: You called yourself Yankee. CC: Everybody did. JJ: Why is there a difference? Yeah, what is that? CC: Why do you think? Because -- okay, Yankee, because of the Civil War, the North and the South. See, I’m a Yankee. I’m a Chicago girl. JJ: Oh, that’s right. That’s right. That’s right, you’re a Chicago girl. CC: They used to kid me and say I was hillbilly by injection but that’s not... (laughter) That’s dumb. Don’t put that. (laughter) No, that’s what Dougie used to tell me. (laughter) (inaudible) “You’re a hillbilly by injection.” JJ: What does that mean? Something (inaudible). CC: Yeah, right. But it -- my mother-in-law, Peggy, she would say, “We love you even if you are a damn Yankee.” (laughs) JJ: Okay. So there was a lot of pride in (crosstalk) CC: (inaudible) it’ll go -- yeah. It came -- it became -- JJ: It’s a culture. (crosstalk) CC: -- for me derogatory to a -- yeah. JJ: So it’s [01:50:00] like a different culture, right? 64 �CC: Yeah, yeah. JJ: Something like Puerto Rican, Mexican. CC: Right. Yeah. Hillbilly. Southern white. It’s usually meant southern white, not southern Blacks but southern white. Hillbilly. But actually I think in the dictionary, it says that a hillbilly is a Michigan farmer. JJ: Really? CC: It seems to me. Maybe not but it’s probably updated. I don’t care what you call me as long as you don’t call me late for dinner. That’s what I... (laughter) But what would be funny -- okay. Because I was married to Doug and Peggy was my mother-in-law, when we would go someplace, I forget where it was. I was applying for something and they put down, “You’re a southern white, right?” I said, “No, why?” Doug is, yeah, he’s my husband but I’m not a southern white. (laughs) [01:51:00] Or when they would categorize me and put me in a southern white and I’d say, “No, I’m not a southern white.” (laughs) I’m a damn Yankee. JJ: So right now, you’re not active? You’re kind of retired? CC: Oh yeah, I’m retired. (laughs) JJ: From that, yes. CC: Yeah, from that. I still put my two cents in and if I can help, you know what I’m saying? Like at work, I’ve had guards that would -- racist and stuff and I got them removed. (laughs) I’m not ashamed to say that and I really don’t mess with people’s jobs. But if you’re going to treat people like they’re garbage just because they’re not white or whatever, you’re gone. (laughs) I’m not putting up 65 �with that. I’ve [01:52:00] had people who needed help with alcohol or something and I would put them in contact with people so... JJ: You still (inaudible) CC: Yeah. JJ: (inaudible) Okay. One more time. Any other final thoughts? CC: No. That’s it; that’s it. JJ: Okay. You said you have your son or...? CC: Yeah, I have a son, Jason. He’s 45. Yeah. JJ: He doesn’t come around or...? CC: He lives here. JJ: Oh, he lives here. CC: He lives here with his girlfriend and her two-year-old son so that just happened recently that they moved in. Actually, it was the little boy that got to me. (crosstalk) I wasn’t so keen on having her because you can’t have two women in the house or even in the kitchen and all that. But that little boy just kind of got me so -- JJ: [01:53:00] (inaudible) CC: Yeah. I guess he -- he’s my grandson. He’s not my blood but he’s my -- I love him to death. I’m a pushover when it comes to babies and animals. JJ: What’s his name? CC: His name is [Nicholas?]. JJ: Nicholas. What’s her name? CC: Her name is [Nicole?]. 66 �JJ: Nicole. (inaudible) CC: Yeah. She’s a sweetheart. She really is a sweetheart. But puppies and babies or little kids. (laughs) I know I’m a pushover. (laughs) END OF VIDEO FILE 67 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ad57d098cadaabde488ffbc9dc2a4c19.mp4 bfbcdc7df1177b1eb05c79b83b40adae Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Description An account of the resource Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives. The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jiménez, José, 1948- Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-25 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng spa Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 2012-2017 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Sujetos Spanish language Subject terms Young Lords (Organización) Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexicano-Americanos--Relatos personales Justicia social Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago Mexico-Americanos--Illinois--Chicago--Condiciones sociales Relaciones raciales Conflicto social Identitad cultural Partido Pantera Negra. Illinois Capí­tulo Título Spanish language Title entry Carol Blakely vídeo entrevista y biografía Descripción Spanish language Description entry La historia oral de Carol Blakely, entrevistado por Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez el 10/19/2012 acerca de los Young Lords en Lincoln Park. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-65_Blakely_Carol Title A name given to the resource Carol (Coronado) Blakely video interview and transcript Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Blakely, Carol (Coronado) Description An account of the resource Oral history of Carol (Coronado) Blakely, interviewed by Jose 'Cha-Cha' Jimenez, on 10/19/2012 about the Young Lords in Lincoln Park. In the video, an older white woman in a blue top speaks while looking towards the interviewer who is off camera. In the interview, Carol discusses growing up on the north side of Chicago, and her involvement as a young adult in the Young Patriots Organization, which organized a health clinic for underserved Chicago residents. She also discusses collaborating with members of the Young Lords and Black Panthers on community organizing. The transcript file includes a detailed biographical note about the subject. Subject The topic of the resource Young Lords (Organization) Puerto Ricans--United States Civil Rights--United States--History Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.) Mexican Americans--Personal narratives Social justice Community activists--Illinois--Chicago Mexican Americans--Illinois--Chicago--Social conditions Race relations Social conflict Cultural identity Black Panther Party. Illinois Chapter Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-10-19 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Young Lords collection (RHC-65) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jiménez, José "Cha-Cha" (interviewer) Audio Transcription Center (transcriber) Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1960s Civil Rights Movement Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c2b4cf83ec871413a93f14c015bf6c2b.mp4 add1518da8492f7d9e879c357f10894a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6d1a6e7686c1afa2f65817f0f315a203.pdf 003cc894bfc1940bef019c5e7a6465c0 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Roy Eugene Blanchard (00:23:54) * Roy’s story is told by Clark Blanchard, Roy Blanchard’s son (0:00) • Filmed WWI memorabilia including medals, certificates, flags, pictures, uniform, and journal (2:46) Background • Roy was born in New Hampshire in 1899 • Had an older sister and a younger brother • Family moved to Grand Rapids • Roy’s father was a bigamist; had his family in Grand Rapids and another family in a suburb outside of Grand Rapids o In those days, would have to choose which family to stay with o Roy’s father chose to stay with the other family • Roy dropped out of 8th grade to support the family • Worked on a farm one summer • Friend said if joined Michigan National Guard Roy would get paid just for attending meetings • Roy was underage and underweight o Don’t know how he got around the underage part (about 15 years old when joined) but to get around the underweight part, he would eat a lot of bananas and drink a lot of water (5:20) The Mexican border • Just prior to WWI, issues on the Mexican border with gangs. Pancho Villa would take his gangs across the border and raid small Texas towns • US government activated Guard units to stop the raids • Roy caught some of Pancho Villa’s men and took one of their pistols as a souvenir (6:38) WWI and injuries • Michigan National Guard, since was already active in Texas, was one of the first units shipped out to France • Roy was machine gunned in the shoulder • Kept a diary of life in the war and Clark still has it o In the diary, Roy described the day he got hit • Another injury occurred when Roy was in the line of fire during combat; dove to the ground into a puddle that was contaminated with mustard gas; got the mustard gas in one eye and became blind in one eye. o Never applied or received veteran’s compensation (8:50) More details about shoulder injury • Trench warfare �• • Told to go over the top and attack the Germans There was barbed wire between the two sides and a German machine gun nest in front • When soldiers began advancing, mowed down by German machine gun o Describes the scene in his diary; talks about those who got hit o Since a National Guard unit, all the men were from Grand Rapids (10:00) Training • Infantry unit • Specialized in hand grenades • Expert marksman, even when blind in one eye (11:05) Stories of the front • Roy never went on at any length about war • Clark (Roy’s son) and Roy would be doing something together and a sound or smell would trigger a memory; it would always be very brief and then he would change the subject • Mustard gas o When the enemy would use mustard gas, would first send over a shell of vomiting gas, which would make the soldiers nauseous; then they would send over a shell of mustard gas; it was the natural reaction to yank mask off when vomiting; so soldiers would take mask off to vomit and then accidentally inhale the mustard gas and die. Roy saw a soldier get hit with by the shrapnel from the mustard gas shell. The shrapnel broke the soldier’ gas mask. A chaplain who witnessed this pulled off his own mask and gave it to the soldier. The chaplain quickly climbed a nearby tree so as to be above the mustard gas. • Barbed wire o To keep enemy soldiers awake all night, soldiers from both sides would put cans on the barbed wire with pieces of bread and crackers inside; trench rats would rattle the cans all night trying to get the food out. This kept the enemy anxious because the clanging sounded like someone advancing through the barbed wire. (14:40) Teaching his son • When Clark was a young kid, his dad, Roy, taught him how to shoot like he was in the military (15:47) Trench life • Awful • Disease, especially in feet, because always standing in the mud • If wounded, it was your job to get to an aid station; there were hardly any medics around (17:10) Convoy story • On way over to France at the start of the war, was on a troop ship in convoy • Convoy partially abandoned troop ship because warning of torpedoes in area o The convoy returned to troop ship because warning was a false alarm �• When Roy was sent back to the United States, Roy was put on the same ship had come over on; what had originally been a troop ship was converted into a hospital ship (18:28) Auxiliary Police • When WWII broke out, there was a lack of police officers in the towns because a majority of police-age men were drafted and sent over seas • Auxiliary police units were set up in the towns o Older men with military discipline did this, especially veterans • When there would be floods, auxiliary police would perform the rescues • One time, police got people out of flood situation, but when started to leave, their boat got stuck on the person’s mailbox (19:52) After WWII • Roy remained an auxiliary policeman • Prior to and during WWII, many professional baseball players were drafted; to take their place, Grand Rapids had a women’s baseball team o Roy would police the baseball games and take his son, Clark, with him. Clark’s job was to collect foul balls and sell peanuts and popcorn (21:30) Reflection • Roy was always very patriotic and loyal • He was a very good father • The military had a strong impact on his life (22:38) • More pictures; looks to be group shots of the Michigan National Guard on the Mexican border and in Europe during WWI � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Blanchard, Roy (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Blanchard, Roy Description An account of the resource Roy Eugene Blanchard was a WWI veteran who served in the Michigan National Guard – 126th Infantry Regiment on the Mexican border and in Europe. Roy's son, Clark, is conducting this interview in memory of his father. At 15 years old, Roy managed to join the Michigan National Guard despite the fact he was underage. Soon after joining, Roy was sent to the Mexican border to stop the raiding of Texas towns by Mexican gangs. While in Mexico, WWI broke out and Roy's division was immediately shipped over to France. In this interview, Clark shares many detailed stories about his father's time on the front, including unique stories of mustard gas and barbed wire. Clark also discusses the time his father saw a fellow solider get hit by shrapnel and also the time Roy was blinded by mustard gas. Because Roy kept diaries of his time on the front, the stories Clark tells are very clear and truly give one a sense of the front lines. During WWII, Roy was an auxiliary policeman for Grand Rapids who policed many of the women's baseball games. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Bloom, Jeff (Interviewer) Ferris, Jay (Interviewer) Forest Hills Eastern High School (Ada, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Michigan. National Guard. Infantry, 126th World War, 1914-1918--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-06-02 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BlanchardR Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/86e4a003322ad0fe39b0966bf2a5bfcb.mp4 3040b6f3fa110a11e41e14c09f728491 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8c4fd9d1f8d67fdf5408d4cd599edf2b.pdf 628715d0d6c0cbf0fec36a615c00a8a3 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam War Henry Bledsoe Length of interview (0:32:46) Background: (0:00:15)  Born 1951, in Illinois, in a farming community  Father was a sharecropper (0:11:00)  Achieved a high school diploma, along with some college (0:11:23)  Currently lives in Caledonia, Michigan  Served in the Air Force, at the rank of Staff Sergeant (0:00:54) Enlistment: (0:01:02)  Originally stationed at the Air Force base in San Antonio, Texas (0:01:04)  Went to technical school at the Sheppard Air Force Base in Wichita Falls, Texas (0:01:11)  After technical school went to the Air Force Base in Big Spring, Texas (0:01:17)  Was a medic in the Air Force (0:01:57)  Would do four twelve hour days and then be off for three days  Enlisted, and received a draft notice two weeks after entering basic training (0:13:41)  Remembers being scared when entering the war (0:14:55)  Medics played recreational sports when off duty (0:20:28)  Slept on a cot, not very comfortable (0:22:38) Duties: (0:02:23)  Worked mostly emergency room, x-ray laboratory  Night shift did blood cultures (0:02:47) o Explains what a blood culture consists of  Medics were deployed based on the current activity in each zone (0:04:05)  Bledsoe’s tour of duty was short—only a few months (0:04:43)  Hundreds or thousands a day were injured  During the war, his job was to ensure that the injured could be stabilized enough to survive the trip to a hospital Enlistment Part Two: (0:05:07)  Never worried about the United States not achieving victory during the war  Bledsoe’s brother, Alvin was also in the Air Force at that time, working with statistics o Did not speak to his family often during the war o A few phone calls a month, and the occasional letter  Talks about the differences between living at home and living on base  “Nothing can prepare you for mass casualties” (0:06:55)  “War is another form of societal cancer” (0:07:48)  Mental effects are often in the form of trying to deprogram yourself after the war (0:08:33)  Bledsoe did not choose to be a medic �o When you join the military you are given a set of aptitude tests (0:09:04) o At the time of the Vietnam war, you were placed where they wanted you  Bledsoe felt stress at war, but explains that it was a different kind of stress than the ground troops felt (0:09:31)  Explains the process of Triage (0:10:05) o Take care of those who have the greatest potential to live first After the War: (0:11:36)  Bledsoe and his wife own a financial services and insurance agency  Bledsoe was in complete support of the war, his family wanted the war resolved  Service ended March 14, 1974 (0:22:58)  After returning home, worked in the intensive care unit, then sales  Stayed in contact with a few of his war friends, but not many (0:23:57)  His views never changed after the war o The war needed the intent to win  Joined a veteran’s organization for a limited time  Bledsoe reflects on the war’s effects on him and his family (0:25:13) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bledsoe, Henry (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bledsoe, Henry Description An account of the resource Henry Bledsoe was born in 1951, in an Illinois farming community. He served in the Vietnam War in the Air Force as a medic. He spent several months in Vietnam, where he tested blood cultures and worked with a unit whose job it was to keep patients stable prior to shipment to hospitals. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Wilson, Jessica (Interviewer) Bledsoe, Dori (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-05-11 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BledsoeH Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/caf6b3723c3c905b8b350bcaa471ee5d.mp4 71aaff5e4b6c6dd840db6eb21effe32b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f064a5ceb456a3c7a2472eb7ff244552.pdf 83be3d32490bff8a85ce13b96fc962c1 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Arthur Bleecher (50:34) (00:15) Background Information • • • • • • • • • Arthur was born in Council Bluffs, Iowa on January 23, 1926 He moved to New York City with his mom and sister and his mom started working at a dry cleaners Later she started her own business and made it through the depression He went to high school at a parochial school and studied Latin, physics, chemistry, and math Arthur liked horses and wanted to be a veterinarian After graduation he worked on farms in Rhode Island, Vermont, and New York He then went to school at Cortland State University [NY] for agriculture In the summer of 1944 he worked in a plant in Detroit, MI He visited the draft board at the end of summer and joined the Merchant Marine (5:30) Training • • • • • Arthur was first sent to Sheepshead Bay in New York for 8 weeks, then to Hoffman Island in NY Harbor for radio training Passed Morse Code test after 22 weeks, in June of 1945 While learning Morse Code, Arthur never actually learned how to type He could go through the code at 22 words a minute After code school he was sent to Baltimore, Maryland (8:15) Tanker across the Atlantic Sea and the Indian Ocean • • • • • He boarded a T-2 Tanker and crossed the Atlantic They stopped at Port Said in Egypt, crossed the Indian Ocean, made their way through the Persian Gulf, and then stayed in Iran for 2 weeks After Iran they headed towards The Philippines Their goal was to fuel the invasion on Japan They stopped at a port in NE Australia to refuel on the way to The Philippines (12:30) Philippines • • They first stopped in Manila and then sailed to Subic Bay War was already over in the Pacific �• • Arthur was in Sri Lanka when the bombs dropped in Japan He then went back to the US and stayed in New Orleans for a while (20:30) Europe • • • • Arthur was based in Europe 3 different times They loaded the ship up with barrels of asphalt from Mexico and brought them to Europe Sharks followed their ship and fed off their garbage They were caught in a storm once but not as strong as a hurricane (24:50) Discharged September, 1946 • • • • After being discharged, Arthur looked for a job on Wall Street and worked with stocks He then worked for a British company called Arnold Bread Arthur sold his car and went to a city college in New York In October of 1950 he was drafted into the Army (27:00) Training • • • • • Arthur was sent to Fort Devens, Massachusetts for basic training He applied to be a Captain and was accepted to leadership school in Fort Dix, New Jersey He then went to Officer Candidate School (OCS) in Oklahoma for 22 months of very rough training Half of the men had washed out by the end of the training He began studying anti-aircraft, working with machine guns, 40mm, 90mm, and 20mm (29:40) Shipped to Korea September, 1952 • • • • • • Arthur went through 3 weeks of training before being sent to Pusan He worked with the 25th US Infantry Division, as part of the 21st AAA Automatic Weapons Battalion He enjoyed Japanese beer and sake They used machine guns on top of half-tracks to harass enemy planes The Anti Aircraft Battalion did not have much to do on front lines He worked with anti-tank guns and 90mms on front lines for about three months (41:00) After Service • • • • Arthur left North Korea in September for Seoul, South Korea He later went to law school at Stetson University near St. Petersburg He worked with the IRS and became Chief Attorney Then began working as attorney for Social Security �• Arthur has recently retired and often travels to Europe � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bleecher, Arthur (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bleecher, Arthur Description An account of the resource Arthur Bleecher enlisted in the Merchant Marine in 1944 and trained as a radio officer. He sailed to Asia and Europe in 1945 and 1946 and then returned to civilian life, only to be drafted for the Korean War. This time he served in the army, attended Officer Candidate School and trained as an anti-aircraft officer. He shipped out to Korea in 1952 and spent several months there on active duty. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Merchant marine--United States World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-05-22 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BleecherA Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5d8c5f30e45d8348a3e7a2417c720831.mp4 89f8b942527e5f09984a79fb6b6ef43f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b85e5318a504e8f429a18d7c279383bc.pdf b2a95724d3387cb7dcc47002779db7b2 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Dr. Eugene Bleil World War II Interview Length: (02:00:04:00) Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:13:00) · Bleil was born in Detroit, Michigan and after spending the first couple of years of Bleil’s life in the city, his family eventually moved to a small, ten-acre farm (00:00:13:00) o In 1925, his family moved to a farm in Ypsilanti, Michigan (00:00:35:00) o Bleil was born on August 29th, 1920 (00:00:41:00) o Bleil’s family lived on the farm in Ypsilanti for four years before moving to another farm in Belleville, Michigan in 1929; Bleil stayed at the farm in Belleville until he graduated from high school in 1938 (00:00:51:00) · Bleil had had a very illustrious track record while he was in high school, having never been defeated in the hurdles or dash, and at one point, he was invited to Eastern Michigan University to train for the Olympics as a hurdler (00:01:17:00) o However, Bleil did not have the money necessary to attend the university, so he borrowed the money and arrived at Eastern Michigan a week after classes had started (00:01:42:00) o Bleil went to classes during the morning, trained during the afternoon and evening and worked nights to pay for his expenses; however, he neglected to sleep and ended up sleeping during classes (00:01:55:00) § At one point, a friend of Bleil’s suggest Bleil was taking too many classes and suggested Bleil drop some of the classes but neglected to mention that Bleil needed to notify someone that he was doing so (00:02:23:00) § Instead, Bleil just stopped going to the classes, so at the end of the semester, he had a whole series of F’s where he had just quit going to the class (00:02:33:00) § The university president wrote a letter to Bleil’s mother saying Bleil was not a candidate for college and suggested Bleil attempt to find a job in a vocational field (00:02:49:00) · After the semester was over, Bleil continued working at his original job, which was working at a Mobil gas station (00:03:04:00) o At the time, Bleil and his brother were living in a house without heat, light, or water as well as no food (00:03:46:00) o In early 1939, Bleil and his brother signed up for job driving new cars to Oklahoma City (00:03:57:00) o When the brothers arrived in Oklahoma City, they had no place to go other than by railroad, so they became hobos and road the railroads across the western middle potion of the United States, finally settling in Denver with friends of their mother (00:04:28:00) § Once in Denver, Bleil got a job working raising rainbow trout from eggs until they were eighteen inches long (00:04:53:00) § Trout from the company was sold all over the world and one of Bleil’s �jobs was taking trout packed in ice to the airport, where the trout were then transported as far as Germany, Italy, and India (00:05:18:00) o By September, Bleil’s brother still could not find a job and told Bleil he was returning to Michigan; Bleil then quit his job and returned home to Michigan with his brother (00:05:45:00) · The brothers got home to Michigan but Bleil’s brother still could not find a job and in September, he came home with a full-page ad in a Detroit paper that read “Join the Air Corps, Learn to Fly” (00:06:21:00) o Bleil’s brother said he was going to join because the Air Corps would clothe him, feed him, house him, and pay him while he was there (00:06:45:00) o Bleil could not argue with the observation because at the time, his family was having trouble just getting enough food to eat (00:06:57:00) · After a while, Bleil decided he would join his brother in enlisting in the Air Corps, so they went to Detroit and joined the Army Air Corps (00:07:04:00) o Once Bleil and his brother officially enlisted, they were unable to leave the area and after awhile, they went to nearby Selfridge Field, where they and the other recruits received the equivalent of two years of college, with an emphasis on physics and mathematics (00:07:17:00) o At the end of the classes, all the recruits had to take a test and if they passed, they then had a physical; both Bleil and his brother passed the test but both flunked the physical because they both had a malocclusion of their teeth (00:08:09:00) § Bleil and his brother were not allowed to continue as pilots but were allowed to go to any other school they wanted (00:08:31:00) § Although Bleil and his brother had gone through a physical when they first enlisted in Detroit, it was only a mock physical; the Air Corps just wanted bodies and they did not care who made it in physically (00:08:50:00) o During the classes at Selfridge, Bleil and the other recruits were living in clapboard buildings where none of the doors or windows fit properly, so during the winter, the snow and wind would whistle through (00:09:48:00) § The food the recruits were given was fabulous; the mess sergeant for the base was rated the best mess sergeant in the service (00:10:11:00) · After a meal was over, the mess sergeant would stand by the waste basket and each recruit would have to scrap his plate into the waste basket; if there was ever any left over food on a plate, the mess sergeant would ask why the recruit did not finish (00:10:30:00) o A recruit could either finish the food right there or shovel coal for half-an-hour to an hour, depending on how much food was left on the plate (00:10:52:00) · The recruits ate T-bone steaks that were an inch thick and as large as a dinner plate (00:11:28:00) · After taking the second physical and being told they could not be pilots, Bleil and his brother were sent in March to Scott Field outside of Belleville, Illinois (00:12:07:00) o The time spent at Scott Field was meant to see if the recruits could handle to rigors of being the Air Corps (00:12:15:00) o There were pigeons in the top of the old dirigible hangar where the recruits ate, so �they had to eat with their hats covering their plates to avoid the any pigeon poop that might drop down (00:12:39:00) § The dirigible hangar was heated using old pot-belly stoves that were huge (00:13:01:00) o Bleil and the group of recruits he was with spent their entire time at Scott Field in the dirigible hangar but after they left, serious changes were made to the personnel at the field; after the recruits had left the field, they received word that the supply officer and mess sergeant were both up for court-martial for embezzling money (00:13:18:00) o While at the field, the recruits trained under a heel-clicking captain who wore white gloves to inspect the recruits (00:13:57:00) § Again, the buildings on the base largely consisted of clapboard buildings with ill-fitting doors and windows, which made it impossible to keep the buildings clean (00:14:07:00) § The captain always “gigged” the recruits because they were never able to get the floors or windows clean (00:14:49:00) · When the captain gigged the recruits, the recruits were confined to quarters and instead of having passing and being allowed to go around the base, they had to clean their quarters (00:15:02:00) o The last week the recruits were at the field, their commanders allowed them to go to Belleville and East St. Louis; however, the recruits could not leave Illinois, so they could not go into St. Louis itself (00:15:34:00) · After leaving Scott Field, Bleil went to Chanute Field in Illinois, where he began receiving hands-on training with aircraft (00:16:35:00) o Bleil and the other recruits training on several different aircraft, taking them apart and putting them back together (00:16:42:00) § During the examinations, the instructors would purposely create problems in an aircraft and the recruits would then have to diagnose and repair the problem (00:16:51:00) o The training was a high-grade mechanics course and it helped all of the recruits immensely (00:17:05:00) o The recruits worked with both Pratt & Whitney and Wright Cyclone engines, as well as some smaller engines (00:17:20:00) § For the most part, the recruits trained using radial engines; they did not start training with in-line engines until later, when they were already in the field; never the less, the problems were usually the same (00:17:38:00) o Bleil was at Chanute Field from April until August, when both he and his brother contracted pneumonia, which caused them to be hospitalized; Bleil’s brother also contracted mumps, and the brothers were then separated (00:17:52:00) § Bleil’s brother stayed at Chanute Field and eventually graduated as an instrument specialist before becoming an instructor (00:18:17:00) · Bleil’s brother ended up never fighting overseas because Bleil had already deployed (00:18:35:00) · After finishing at Chanute, Bleil returned to Selfridge Field and was there for a short time before receiving word that he and the other men in the camp would be shipping out, although the Air Corps did not say where or did not say when (00:18:50:00) �o Eventually, someone came back with a newspaper article that said the men were being deployed to the Philippine Islands to help bolster the defense forces already on the island (00:19:02:00) o When he returned to Selfridge, Bleil returned to the 17th Pursuit Squadron, which he had been assigned to before he went to school (00:19:22:00) § At the time, pursuit squadrons consisted of single-engine fighter planes (00:19:35:00) § When Bleil re-joined the 17th Pursuit, the personnel already in the squadron came from numerous states; some of the older men in the squadron had already been there fifteen or twenty years and were only sticking around because they had nothing else to do (00:19:55:00) Philippines Deployment (00:20:33:00) · The squadron received information in September that they were going to be leaving Selfridge and they actually deployed in October 1940 (00:20:33:00) o After leaving Selfridge, Bleil and the other men in the squadron were shipped across the country by rail and were supposed to leave San Francisco aboard the S.S. Washington, a luxury liner converted to be a troop transport (00:20:48:00) o When the men arrived in California, another squadron, the 20th Pursuit, which was based in California, had a commander who outranked the 17th Pursuit’s commander, so the 20th Pursuit left on the Washington and the 17th Pursuit was sent to Angel Island (00:21:07:00) § The squadron spent the remainder of October and part of November stationed on Angel Island (00:21:59:00) o In the middle of November, the squadron did finally ship out, aboard the S.S. Etolin, an old transport ship (00:22:08:00) § For most of the journey, the men stay on the deck of the ship because it was insufferable to be below decks (00:22:22:00) § The Etolin stopped at Oahu but the men could not disembark from the ship; once the ship left Oahu, it sailed across the South Pacific and arrived in the Philippines on December 5th, 1940 (00:22:34:00) · The weather on the trip was all right; a little rocky, but other than that, everything was fine (00:22:52:00) § The smell below decks was what made it unbearable for the men to be down there; nobody wanted to be below deck, so all the men sat on the deck of the ship and mostly played cards during the voyage (00:23:00:00) § The 17th Pursuit was the only unit aboard the ship and from what Bleil can remember, there were about 180 enlisted men in the unit and not too many officers (00:23:15:00) · The squadron did not receive the majority of their officers until it was already in the Philippines and most of the new officers had never flown a pursuit fighter and had only had basic training using a two-seater airplane (00:23:37:00) o However, the two-seater airplanes were not very powerful compared to other airplanes (00:24:21:00) · Once the squadron was in the Philippines, the new officers started �training with P-26As, which were the first all-metal aircraft used by the Air Corps (00:24:47:00) o The P-26As had fixed landing gear, a low wing, and an open cockpit; fortunately, the P-26As used by the squadron had been modified to include a crash pad behind the pilot because the new officers were constantly crashing the airplanes into the ground (00:25:01:00) § The airplane itself was nose-heavy, so as pilots would come in to land, they would have trouble keeping the tail of the plane down and the airplane would flip over; sometimes, the airplanes even flipped during take-off (00:25:28:00) · The pilots had the same problem when they started using the larger P-35s, which was also nose-heavy (00:25:45:00) · Once in the Philippines, the squadron was based at Nichols Field and the men lived in a tent city of four-person tents (00:26:18:00) o However, the men eventually had to leave the tents in July because the rain season had caused a nearby river to overflow, which then flooded the area where the tents were and forced the men to walk in ankle-deep water; once the area flooded, the men moved into the hangers (00:26:35:00) o Nichols field was located a five or six miles south of Manila (00:27:31:00) § When they were off-duty, a lot of the men went into Manila but Bleil himself (00:27:41:00) § The squadron arrived on a Friday and on the following Sunday, Bleil and a couple of other men wanted to go watch the sunset on the South China Sea and Manila Bay (00:27:48:00) · The group went to the beach, watched the sunset, and as they were walking back to the base, they were crossing a bridge over the Paranaque river when they were stopped by a guard and ordered to carry a prophylactic of six large sulfur tablets (00:28:06:00) o After the incident, Bleil made up his mind that he would not go back across the Paranaque (00:28:38:00) o The guards assumed that anyone who left the base had visited the prostitutes in Manila, and even though the men tried to explain that they had only gone to watch the sunset, the guards did not care (00:28:45:00) o Filipino boys would come onto the base and would work, keeping the men’s tents in order for cheap (00:29:24:00) § However, there was not much for the boys to do anyway, apart from sweeping, organizing the beds, dusting off the beds, etc. (00:29:36:00) · In July, the squadron moved to the town of Iba in the province of Zambales to do a gunnery mission; some of the squadron returned to Nichols Field in September and some returned in October (00:30:05:00) o Just before the squadron left for Iba, Bleil contracted dengue fever, a very serious disease (00:30:24:00) �§ Doctors gave Bleil and the other afflicted men codeine and aspirin but nothing worked to alleviate the pain; there was no actual medicine that could cure the disease (00:30:45:00) § The disease was carried by mosquitoes, which made it similar to malaria, and it gave the men head-aches, fever, and made them feel like they had gone through a grinder (00:31:04:00) o Bleil suffered with the disease for a month and a half to almost two months (00:31:26:00) · When the 17th Pursuit arrived in the Philippines, the squadron commander was assigned the task of teaching Filipinos to fly airplanes (00:31:44:00) o The commander would have to leave at seven in the morning and did not return until seven at night and as part of the training, he needed an aircraft and engine mechanic for his airplane; because Bleil had gotten into an altercation with the squadron first sergeant back in the United States, Bleil was the first choice for the mechanic position (00:31:56:00) § Therefore, Bleil became the squadron commander’s personal crew chief and was the only mechanic in the squadron who worked all day; everyone else worked from eight in the morning until noon while Bleil had to work from seven to seven (00:32:24:00) o Being the squadron commander’s personal crew chief would benefit Bleil later on and he did not have plans to go off the airfield anyway, so working all day did not bother him (00:32:46:00) o The rest of the men in the squadron worked from eight in the morning until noon, and then, they had the rest of the day off (00:33:01:00) § The other pilots would only take their airplanes out once a day to practice flying in formation; nevertheless, once the war actually started, some of the pilots were still not “trained” fully (00:33:14:00) · When the squadron first arrived in the Philippines, the only airplanes that were available to them were the P-26s, some of which had been stationed in the Philippines since 1934, when they had left Selfridge Field back in Michigan (00:33:58:00) o Eventually, the squadron received a shipment of P-35As in crates, with instructions in Swedish; the airplanes were originally meant to go to Sweden but President Roosevelt changed their destination to the Philippines (00:34:18:00) § The men had to put each airplane together but no one in the squadron read Swedish; instead, the men used what information they had learned at school (00:34:42:00) § The instruments in the cockpit were also in Swedish and if the pilots could not read Swedish, then they were out of luck; nevertheless, the pilots managed fairly well (00:34:58:00) o Once all the P-35As were put together, the men covered them in canvas because the supply personnel had neglected to send batteries with them; the P-35A carried a large battery used to turn the engine over to start (00:35:17:00) o Later, the squadron received some P-40Bs and P-40Es, which used a 24-cylinder, in-line Allison engine, which was the men’s first introduction to in-line engines, which required ethylene glycol (anti-freeze) to run properly (00:35:44:00) § However, someone said that the airplanes did not need anti-freeze in the �tropics, so the ethylene glycol was not shipped the with airplanes; once the airplanes were all put together, they too were covered with canvas because they could not fly without the ethylene glycol, which acted as a coolant for the airplane’s engine (00:36:08:00) § After about a month and a half where the P-40s just sat on the line, the squadron finally received a shipment of ethylene glycol (00:36:46:00) o Once the squadron received the ethylene glycol and began using the P-40s, the mood around the squadron was to hurry up and teach the new pilots how to fly the new, high-powered airplanes (00:36:59:00) § Overall, there were only four or five experienced pilots in the entire squadron when it arrived in the Philippines and some of them were then moved to other squadrons (00:37:22:00) · While in the Philippines, Bleil and the other men heard news stories about President Roosevelt stopping this or stopping that (00:37:52:00) o From Bleil’s perspective, President Roosevelt knew by January 1941 that war with Japan was inevitable; however, the President, while trying to help the Allies, was faced with a pacifist, isolationist American populace (00:38:12:00) o Roosevelt kept saying he wanted the Japanese to make the first strike and the Japanese kept testing the American government; however, even when the Japanese bombed an American gunboat in 1937, the government did nothing because the American people did not want to get involved (00:39:05:00) o Prior to the official start of the fighting, Bleil and the other men knew there was a Japanese fishing village at the northern end of the Philippines and there was suspicion that the civilians working in the PX were Japanese (00:39:56:00) § However, none of the GIs or commanders seemed to worried about that possibility (00:40:55:00) · The men were warned in June 1941 that the Japanese could strike at any moment, without warning; after that, the squadron was tasked with sending out an early-morning patrol and often, the pilots would encounter unidentified aircraft which could out-fly and outmaneuver the American aircraft (00:41:11:00) o Everyone assumed the unidentified aircraft were Japanese Zero fighters, nobody could ever get close enough to make a positive identification (00:41:49:00) o During the last couple of months leading up to the war, the number of encounters with the unidentified aircraft increased (00:42:01:00) § However, President Roosevelt continued to insist that the Japanese had to make the first strike (00:42:13:00) o Over time, there was a shift in the activities of the squadron; in October, Bleil was taken off the line, given six men (two mechanics, two radiomen, and two armament men) and the group worked from seven at night until seven in the morning taking salvaged parts to make something that would fly (00:44:34:00) § The group was successful in constructing several aircraft out of the spare and left-over parts (00:45:13:00) § At midnight, the men would go to the barracks and prepare their own “mid-day” meal (00:45:44:00) Beginning of the War (00:45:55:00) �· On Dec. 7th, just before the group went to make their meal, a bomb blew them out of the hanger where they were working (00:45:55:00) o The men left the hanger, made and ate their “mid-day” meal, then returned to the hanger and worked to repair damage that had been done by the bomb to surrounding aircraft (00:46:10:00) o About three or four hours after the bomb exploded, the men heard on the radio that the Japanese were bombing Pearl Harbor (00:46:34:00) o Bleil has read accounts of officers stationed on the base claiming to have been sleeping under the wings of the airplanes the night of the Japanese attack and those are flat-out lies (00:47:03:00) § Although the pilots were supposed to be on alert, they were all sleeping in their bunks (00:47:22:00) § Earlier that night, the officers in the squadron had had a party celebrating that they were half-way through their enlistments; originally, Bleil and the men suspected the first bomb was in retaliation for the officers having their party (00:47:31:00) o The first bomb was interesting because before the attack, a squadron based at Iba had radar and were tracking a flight of Japanese planes flying from Manila Bay into the South China Sea (00:48:10:00) § However, as the radar at Iba tracked the larger group of Japanese planes in the bay, a single Japanese bomber came in low and dropped the bomb on Nichols Field (00:48:45:00) · As time passed toward the end of the year, things started going a little faster; the pilots began encountering more unidentified aircraft (00:49:28:00) o On Thanksgiving Day, one of the airplanes was lost and once the men had recovered the wreckage, one of the technical sergeants said the airplane had strange-looking holes in it (00:49:39:00) o Everybody passed off the possibility that the Japanese had shot the airplane down; instead, they where focusing on pilot error (00:50:22:00) · On Dec. 8th, Bleil and the other men in his group were leaving the hangar to go to sleep when they met the squadron commander, who was carrying a piece of paper saying war had not been declared and to keep the squadron’s airplanes on the ground (00:51:23:00) o However, the squadron commander told Bleil to get anything that could fly gassed, armed, and ready to fly; every airplane in the squadron that could fly was in the air by 8:30 (00:51:56:00) o Once the airplanes were in the air, the squadron commander told Bleil to stay on the line and be ready to service any aircraft that needed to be re-fueled or rearmed (00:52:20:00) o Bleil and his group stayed on the line and around eleven o’clock, the airplanes began coming back; one fighter circled the field with a Japanese fighter on his tail and behind the Japanese fighter was another American fighter (00:52:35:00) § The Japanese fighter shot up the first American fighter and the second American fighter shot up the Japanese fighter (00:52:54:00) o After the Japanese fighter was destroyed, a truck drove up with the men’s lunch, two hard-boiled eggs, a sandwich, and cup of coffee (00:53:07:00) § As the men were eating, they saw a bunch of aircraft flying to the east and �although many just assumed the squadron was getting new airplanes, someone pointed out that the aircraft were not American (00:53:24:00) § Just as the men realized the incoming aircraft were Japanese, the aircraft peeled off and strafed the airfield (00:53:44:00) · Most of the men ran into a rice paddy to the east of the airfield, where they endured the Japanese strafing (00:53:51:00) o The Japanese aircraft first strafed the airfield from east to west, circled around, strafed the field again, this time from south to north, and then left; a little while later, Japanese bombers attacked the airfield (00:54:08:00) o When the Japanese attack began, all of the squadron’s aircraft were in the air except for the aircraft that had been shot up (00:54:31:00) · After the initial Japanese attack, all the 17th Pursuit’s airplanes had to land at Clark Field because the runway at Nichols Field was short and it was impossible to land a fullyarmed airplane there (00:54:56:00) o The rest of the 17th Squadron also moved to Clark Field and worked to patch up those airplanes that had been shot by the Japanese (00:55:34:00) o There were not protective revetments at Clark Field because the Filipinos would not allow the Americans to build them (00:55:46:00) o As the pilots would return to Clark Field, they would share what information they had with the ground crews (00:56:29:00) § The most devastating news that the men received was that no one could find General McArthur; although historians claim McArthur was suffering from psychological amnesia, Bleil and the other men simply attributed his absence to cowardice (00:56:36:00) § Nevertheless, without McArthur, the men were just sitting around, waiting for their next orders (00:57:07:00) o After their initial attack on the 8th, the Japanese strafed Clark Field every day, usually after noon (00:57:18:00) o Although there were B-17 bombers stationed at Clark Field that could have bombed the island of Formosa, where the Japanese were staging the attacks, which would have ended the war quickly, the bombers did not have permission to take off (00:57:41:00) § Instead, the bombers sat lined up on the ground and were shot-up during the Japanese strafing runs (00:57:57:00) · Bleil and the other ground crew stayed at Clark Field repairing shot-up airplanes until Christmas Eve (00:58:07:00) o Prior to leaving Clark, the men heard all kinds of rumors about where they would be sent and they were eventually sent to the province of Bataan (00:58:33:00) o Gen. McArthur disagreed with the war plan that the military had laid out, codenamed “Orange 3” and instead insisted on defeating the Japanese forces at the beaches (00:58:42:00) § However, there are 14,000 miles of beaches in the Philippines and based on the American troop strengths on the islands at the time, they could average about three or four per mile (00:59:09:00) · Apart from the American forces, the only reliable Filipino forces were the scouts, who were very good (00:59:33:00) �§ Along with the American ground forces, mostly part of the 31st Infantry Division, there was also the 17th Pursuit, the 20th Pursuit, the 21st Pursuit, and the 34th Pursuit, as well as several bomber groups: the 19th, 27th, 28th, amongst others (00:59:45:00) · With the 31st Infantry, there was also the 192nd and the 194th Tank Battalions and the 803rd Engineer Battalion; nevertheless, there were not a lot of “traditional” infantry fighting men (01:00:45:00) · The only anti-aircraft weapons available to the men were .50caliber machine guns at Nichols Field (01:00:37:00) o To get to Bataan, Bleil and the other men boarded a small, inner-island transport boat (01:01:09:00) § Before moving to Bataan, there had been rumors that the squadron would be pulled back to either Australia or Hawaii (01:01:18:00) o All the time, Gen. McArthur maintained that stopping the Japanese on the beaches was the best strategy; however, the Americans ended up losing most of their food and ammunition once the Japanese attacked and pushed them back (01:01:37:00) § Therefore, by the time the 17th Pursuit had retreated to Bataan on Christmas, McArthur reverted back to the original war plan (01:02:09:00) · Once on Bataan, the men found out that nothing had been prepared; the engineers were busy plowing out a rice paddy to make room for aircraft to land (01:02:19:00) o Meanwhile, McArthur had retreated to Malinta Tunnel, earning himself the nickname “Dugout Doug” from the soldiers stationed on Bataan (01:02:35:00) § To get back at the soldiers who gave him the nickname, on Christmas Eve 1948, McArthur exonerated all the Japanese personnel charged with war crimes and sentenced from thirty years to life in prison (01:03:07:00) o Once on Bataan, Bleil worked as a crew chief, first while the squadron was stationed at Pilar Field then when the squadron moved to Cabcaben Field; Bleil stayed as a crew chief until January 18th (01:03:51:00) § The men had been bombed on the 16th, after which McArthur promised that thousands of men and ships were on their way to help in the Philippines but would have to fight their way through the Japanese before retreating to Australia (01:04:14:00) § After the bombing on the 16th, the airstrip at Cabcaben was not operational, so the airplanes were sent to Bataan Field (01:05:03:00) o After the airplanes were moved to Bataan Field, the 17th Pursuit was moved again and the 21st Pursuit moved into their old position; all the mechanics were made to join previously-formed platoon (01:05:21:00) § On January 9th, the 17th Pursuit meet in a park and the men were divided into three platoons, which were then given different beaches to defend; Bleil himself was assigned to 1st Platoon (01:05:50:00) · Part of the 803rd Engineers were also assigned to the beaches along with forces from the other pursuit squadrons (01:06:51:00) · For the most part, the men on the beaches guarded the trails leading away from the beach (01:07:09:00) o On January 26th, the men were sent to attack a party of Japanese soldiers that had landed further down the beach (01:07:19:00) �§ The men arrived on January 27th; however, the night before, they had been stopped by an enemy machine gun nest, which managed to kill one of the officers in the unit (01:07:51:00) · The men destroyed the machine gun with some hand grenades before moving on to the beach, where they came under fire from Japanese forces (01:08:30:00) · The men would have been pinned down except that other they managed to crawl across a dry river gulch to take the high ground; once they had the high ground, it took the men five days to clear out the Japanese forces (01:08:50:00) § After clearing out the Japanese forces on the beach, the men were ordered to move north to rejoin the remainder of the squadron (01:09:15:00) o Once the men rejoined the 17th, the squadron moved behind the 34th Pursuit, arriving on the February 1st, where they proceeded to get into a large firefight with Japanese forces who were arriving (01:09:21:00) § At the time, there were between forty-five and fifty men in the 17th Pursuit and about a hundred men in the 34th Pursuit, along with a dozen Filipino scouts (01:09:45:00) § Nevertheless, the combined force managed to kill all the Japanese soldiers who were landing on the beach (01:10:01:00) · However, according to what was reported to the news, it was only the Filipino scouts who fought off the Japanese (01:10:12:00) o While fighting as infantry, the men in Bleil’s platoon used M1903 Springfield rifles and corroded ammunition that did not fire properly (01:10:25:00) § One of the men was assigned to operation an air-cooled, .30-caliber Lewis machine gun, which was probably the best gun the men had (01:10:34:00) § The other two platoons used .50-caliber machine guns that men had taken off crashed aircraft and mounted on jury-rigged tripods (01:10:46:00) § Most of the men in the platoons had hunted before, including Bleil, so using guns was not something entirely foreign to them (01:12:07:00) o At one point, the men were advancing to take a road; however, thick under- and over-growth made it impossible to even see the man next to him (01:12:35:00) § Eventually, the men began yelling back and forth to establish where everyone was located; the men never even thought that the yelling would give away their position to the Japanese (01:13:24:00) · Over time, the squadron fought in a series of battles that the men would come label “the Battle of the Points”, beginning with Aglaloma Bay from January 7th until February 1st, Quinauan Point on February 2nd and Anyasan on February 10th and 11th (01:10:08:00) o The fighting at Anyasan ended up being the last battle that the men were involved in (01:15:06:00) § During the fighting, the men managed to capture some Japanese officers who claimed that although there would not be any fighting in March, by April 1st, all the American forces would be annihilated (01:15:14:00) · The officer claimed the Japanese forces were receiving reenforcements from soldiers who had fought in Singapore (01:15:26:00) �o On February 23rd, the men were moved from a beach on the west coast of Bataan to a beach on the south coast of the peninsula, which ended up being rather steep and not a good place for the Japanese to attempt a landing (01:15:42:00) · By the time the American surrender finally came, Bleil had lost about forty-five to fifty pounds, like most everyone else in the squadron (01:16:18:00) o The men were living on wormy rice and any food they could scrounge from the jungle; as well, the men did not have any medicine except for powdered quinine, which they had to take every morning before breakfast (01:16:28:00) § The men debated having to suffer taking the quinine to eat the wormy soup or just forgoing everything and not eat, which a lot of the men did; however, the officers yelled at the soldiers who chose the latter for not taking their daily dosage of quinine (01:17:15:00) · Many of the old-time officers in the squadron flew south with the B-17 bombers as the airplanes retreated with the top generals in the Philippines; some of the pilots stayed but others chose to fly out (01:17:39:00) o The pilots who did retreat promised to return with airplanes for the squadron; however, although the airplanes were put together in Australia, they were never flown back to the Philippines (01:18:29:00) § The men who remained on Bataan asked the pilots after the war why they never returned and the pilots claimed the McArthur would not allow them to return (01:18:58:00) Bataan Death March / P.O.W.(01:19:12:00) · When the surrender of the remaining American forces in the Philippines was accepted by the Japanese, most of Bleil’s unit surrendered at Mariveles Field and soon after, on April 10th, they began the infamous Bataan Death March (01:19:12:00) o The Japanese gathered all the Americans on April 9th, did not feed them, began the March on April 10th and Bleil did not receive any food, water or rest until April 15th; at the end of the march, the Japanese gave each of the Americans a ball of rice to eat and crammed between one-hundred and one-hundred-and-fifty men into a small boxcar (01:19:31:00) § While squeezed into the boxcar, the short men ended up dying from a lack of air (01:20:24:00) o Looking back, Bleil cannot remember what kept him going for the five days without food, water, or rest (01:20:41:00) o The Japanese guards during the march were very brutal to the men; the guards had been trained to kill their enemies, spit in their faces, kick them in their bodies, and just do not do anything favorable for them (01:20:58:00) o Once the men were out of the boxcar, the Japanese stabbed anyone who had fainted or had died with a bayonet or samurai sword (01:21:46:00) · After getting off the train, Bleil and the other men walked ten or fifteen miles to the first death camp at O’Donnell, where men were dying at an average rate of between twohundred and two-hundred-and-fifty a day (01:22:04:00) o The men stayed at O’Donnell for a month and the entire time, it was very depressing because their friends were dying, the men had ulcers, maggots were all over everything and the situation throughout the entire camp was not conducive �for being able to survive (01:22:31:00) o Bleil eventually left O’Donnell with a group of three-hundred men to work as truck drivers and mechanics (01:22:53:00) § After they had moved, the men who did not already have malaria contracted it (01:23:28:00) § The men were tasked with building a bridge over a river and constructing ten miles of road, down to Tayabas Bay, which they did in (01:23:35:00) § In sixty-four days, the number of men who could walk went from threehundred down to five; everyone else was either dead or too sick to even stand up properly (01:23:53:00) · At one point after the war, a man claimed to have worked on the bridge when Bleil knew that he had not; when Bleil confronted the man, all the man said was “who cares?” (01:24:09:00) o After working on the road detail, Bleil was in the infirmary to combat an infectious disease, dysentery, he had contracted (01:24:42:00) § At that point, Bleil acknowledged the possibility that he was going to die in the hospital and he turned to God for salvation (01:25:09:00) · While working during the night at Nichols field, Bleil’s only entertainment was going to the movies and on Sundays, going to movies meant going to Church because it was impossible to find a seat after Church was over (01:25:28:00) · It was while going to Church to wait for the movie that Bleil heard about salvation from a fire and brimstone chaplain (01:25:47:00) · After Bleil made the connection with God, his life became better and when he returned home, the only thing he returned home with was a bitterness towards the government (01:26:23:00) § Apart from dysentery, Bleil also suffered from Beriberi, a disease that almost all the soldiers suffered with and resulted from a deficiency on Vitamin B-1 (01:26:42:00) · With Beriberi, one of the first things the men lost was their distal nervous system; the first phase of the disease was a “dry stage” and was very painful, to the point that even a flying buzzing around a soldier’s feet was irritating (01:26:51:00) · Eventually, the men swelled up with edema fluid, which ended up stopping some of the pain; however, the fluid would keep building up, until the men looked like bloated zombies (01:27:21:00) o Bleil himself happened to contract cerebral Beriberi, which caused his head to swell up (01:27:28:00) · The third phase of the disease was high-output failure, where the men’s hearts were dilated and working very hard to pump enough blood through the body (01:27:51:00) · The disease itself was quite treatable with thiamine but none of the men received any; Bleil himself was in the third phase three different times (01:28:28:00) o The Japanese were not interested in the any of the prisoners surviving, so they made no effort to treat the disease; �however, they needed men to work in a local mill, so they ended up giving out some medicine, which came in the product used to clean their rice (01:28:56:00) o Some of the men refused to take the medicine and ended up dying (01:29:56:00) o Some of the Japanese guards were Christians and Bleil was surprised to learn that there were roughly four-hundred-thousand Japanese Christians before the war started (01:30:17:00) § Some of the Christians guards would actually punish the guards who mistreated the prisoners (01:30:23:00) § The guard for Bleil’s section never hit any of the prisoners or mistreated any of them (01:30:46:00) · The guard claimed to dislike the Japanese military as much, if not more so, than the prisoners did because he felt like he had been given a raw deal in the military (01:31:03:00) o Bleil and the other prisoners did a lot of sabotage, figuring they would have only one chance and the guards were going to kill them anyway (01:31:46:00) § Every opportunity the men had to steal food or damage property, they took the chance (01:32:01:00) § The men had more opportunities the perform sabotage once they had left the Philippines for Japan because once they were in Japan, the men received different jobs in industry, such as working at a steel foundry, which Bleil did for two years (01:32:28:00) · Bleil left the Philippines on September 18th, 1943, aboard the Taga Maru, which was a Japanese transport ship (01:32:59:00) o After leaving the Philippines, the ship sailed to Formosa, where it stayed for a week, during which the ship endured an American bombing raid, before leaving the island in the middle of a tropical storm (01:33:11:00) o From Formosa to Japan, a lot of the supplies on the deck of the ship were washed overboard and the ship finally arrived in Moji, Japan on October 6th (01:33:42:00) § Fifty-seven of the men aboard the ship did not survive the voyage from the Philippines to Japan and number of the ones who did survive died after the ship had arrived (01:34:04:00) § Bleil estimates that there were probably close to fifteen hundred men around the ship when it left the Philippines (01:34:22:00) o Once in Japan, some of the men disembarked at Moji and the other continued on to China to work in mines (01:34:41:00) o After he arrived in Japan, Bleil ended up working in a steel foundry in the village of Hirohata, where he helped unload coal and ore ships (01:34:59:00) § At one point, Bleil and the other men in his detail tried to sink one of the ships but they could not turn a valve (01:35:19:00) § At one point, the Japanese assigned Bleil the job of “skimming” slag out of the furnace; however, the Japanese neglected to give Bleil any protective eyewear, so he would just close his eyes and rake out the steel in the furnace (01:35:42:00) · However, the Japanese did not like the Bleil was doing it this way �because he was losing some of the material, so they re-assigned him to another job, lining ladles with firebrick (01:35:58:00) § With the ladles, Bleil and the other men managed to mess that up as well, so that the Japanese could not turn the ladles off and had to drop all the molten steel on the floor (01:36:12:00) · Each ladle was about eight to ten feet tall and five feet in diameter that the Japanese would pick up with a crane and fill with a special kind of steel that had cooked for thirteen hours and was used for making gears (01:36:26:00) · All the gears were laid out on the floor in sand molds and the Japanese would take the ladle from one mold to another to fill each one up, one at a time (01:36:47:00) o However, once Bleil and the men sabotaged the ladles, the Japanese could only pour a single mold (01:37:01:00) · The Japanese would get very angry and often punish the Korean prisoners also working in the foundry; the Japanese did not know the American prisoners were sabotaging the ladles (01:37:26:00) o Bleil and the other soldiers did not receive anything from the Red Cross and only received mail from home after sending home pre-written cards saying that they were fine and the Japanese were treating them well (01:38:12:00) § Before Bleil deployed, his mother moved and he did not know her new address, so whenever he sent one the of the cards home, he would address it as “general delivery”; however, instead of being delivered, the card would be put into a circular file (01:38:31:00) · Bleil’s mother eventually got a letter from the military saying that Bleil was “Missing in Action, Presumed Dead”; she did not actually receive a letter from Bleil until late 1944 (01:39:04:00) § A missionary eventually told Bleil what was happening with his mail and suggest that if Bleil ever received another chance to send a card, he should send the card to someone else who he knew the address of (01:39:25:00) · Bleil did receive another set of cards in late 1943 and this time, he sent them to his sister (01:39:47:00) · Eventually, Bleil and some of the other more prominent saboteurs were taken out of the foundry and sent to Toyama to work in an aluminum factory carrying materials in baskets on their backs (01:40:02:00) o After the men were in Toyama for a short while, they were re-assigned to unload ships filled with beans, corn, cement, etc. (01:40:56:00) § Working on the ships was productive for the men because they were able to steal some of the beans and corn; on the other hand, the men hated working on the cement ships because they would breath in the cement particles and sometimes, when they would cough to clear their throats, they would cough up blood (01:41:16:00) § The Japanese would supply the men with muslin underpants that tied at the ankles and waist and bell bottom pants, which made it easy for the men to steal the beans and corn; they would tie the bottoms extremely tight and then fill them up with the beans and corn (01:41:57:00) �§ The men went through an inspection every day and the Japanese would always ask if the men had any beans; the men would say they did and would shake a handful of beans in a metal box (01:42:31:00) · The Japanese would dump the beans in the box out and hit the men in the head a couple of times before sending them on their way with their pant legs full of beans and corn (01:42:47:00) § Thanks to the beans and corn supplementing their diets, the men’s health improved dramatically (01:42:57:00) · While in Japan, the Japanese would tell the men all the bad things that were happening to the American forces will the Korean prisoners would tell the men all the bad things that were happening to the Japanese forces (01:43:18:00) o When the men received information from three different areas, they accepted the information as legitimate (01:43:34:00) o Through this system, the men knew what islands were being lost by the Japanese, especially Iwo Jima and Okinawa (01:43:44:00) o Early in his time in Japan, Bleil saw what the men had labeled as “Roosevelt’s Regular Mail”; a little after noon, he looked up and saw a set of four vapor trails high in the sky, indicating American forces were close enough to be flying over Japan (01:44:24:00) § Although American bombing raids happened close to where the men were, the bombers never directly attacked the factory where they were working; the men knew other areas were being bombed because the Korean prisoners told them about the bombings (01:45:13:00) § When the Americans dropped the first atomic bomb, the Korean prisoners were rattled; however, even though the men had no way of knowing what type of bomb was dropped, they were glad it was effective (01:45:30:00) End of the War / Reflections (01:46:22:00) · One morning, the men woke up and all the Japanese guards were gone; nevertheless, the men stayed in the camp for a couple of weeks without any guards (01:46:22:00) o However, there was not much food on the camp and the only time the men received supplies was when a couple of 55 galleon drums were parachuted onto the camp; for the most part, the men continued to eat the soy beans they had stolen from the Japanese (01:46:45:00) § Anyone who managed to get one of the barrels tended to keep its contents for himself; two men ended up killing themselves when the found a barrel full of meat and ate it all (01:47:47:00) o Eventually, an airplane flew over and dropped a series of messages onto the camp that told the men what they were supposed to do, which was to board a train and head to the town of Aomori, where the Navy picked them up (01:48:16:00) o Once out of Japan, the men were eventually transferred from a hospital ship to a destroyer, which then took them into Yokohama, where they were bunked in a steel warehouse and given fresh clothes (01:48:42:00) o The men stayed in the warehouse for a few days before they were taken to the Atsugi Air Field and flown to Okinawa, where they stayed for about a week before returning to the Philippines (01:49:09:00) �· · · · o The men stayed in the Philippines for a month, where they were forced to sign a gag order; when some of the men refused to sign, the military threatened to not send them home (01:49:33:00) After the men returned to the United States, they were sent to a hospital in Florida and went through a physical, which determined the men were sterile, had extremely enlarged hearts, and would not live to see forty (01:50:39:00) o Bleil was eventually sent back to Fort Sheridan, Illinois in June and was discharged from there (01:51:14:00) o When Bleil was discharged, he was broke and although he tried to borrow some money from the Red Cross, they refused, saying that if they did that, everyone would try to get money from them (01:51:27:00) § Instead, Bleil ended up needing hitch-hike in order to get back home to Michigan (01:51:55:00) o As he was being discharged, Bleil asked how to get out of Fort Sheridan to get to the highway to get home; however, the man misinterpreted the question and only told Bleil how to get out of the building (01:52:09:00) Once they were out of the service, Bleil and the other POW survivors tried to sue the Japanese but President Truman said they could not sue the Japanese because they were partners with the United States (01:52:31:00) o Every other nation who had prisoners taken by the Japanese did sue and were handsomely paid (01:53:14:00) Although someone suggested Bleil did not have the ability to make it through college and suggested he take up a trade, he graduated from Michigan State University as an Organic Chemist and from the University of Michigan Medical School as a Physician (01:54:07:00) The title of the book Bleil wrote about his experiences is Consigned to Death Six Times, which references six different times Bleil was “ordered” to die (01:55:04:00) o The first time was when President Roosevelt marked the forces in the Philippines as a lost cause ten days after the war (01:55:09:00) o The second time was when Gen. McArthur, after the men had been surviving on half-rations, said “when the food runs out, mount an offensive and kill as many Japanese as you can before they kill you” (01:55:35:00) o The third time was when Gen. McArthur, just before leaving the Philippines, said, “Don’t give up the islands until the last man is dead” (01:55:04:00) § Based on those orders, if anyone had survived after that, they would have been guilty of insubordination (01:56:19:00) o The fourth time was when the men captured the Japanese officer at the Battle of Anyasan and the officer said that all the American forces would be annihilated without question (01:56:30:00) o The fifth time was when the Americans surrendered and a Japanese colonel said they would all be annihilated eventually; the men would either be started, beaten, or worked to death and if they did not obey every order of the guards on the march, the guards had the right to kill them (01:56:53:00) o The sixth and final time was when an order was sent out from Tokyo ordering that all POWs be killed and the different methods that could be used, either killing the �POWs individually or as a group; the orders were very clear that once the POWs were dead, there was not to be any trace of them (01:57:47:00) § However, those orders had to be abandoned when Army Rangers launched a successful raid against the POW camp at Cabanatuan and were able to uncover information about the POWs (01:58:18:00) § The original order went out in late 1941 and was intercepted by American forces, which caused the Ranger raid to occur (01:58:41:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bleil, Eugene (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bleil, Eugene Description An account of the resource Eugene Bleil was born in 1920 and grew up mostly on farms outside of the city. He was accepted to Eastern Michigan University, but dropped out after a semester, traveled with his brother looking for work, and wound up enlisting in the Army Air Corps. The brothers trained as Selfridge Field in Michigan and passed the tests for pilot training, but failed the physical, and trained as mechanics at Scott Field in Illinois. Assigned to the 17th Pursuit Squadron, Bleil shipped out to the Philippines in 1940. Based at Nichols Field outside of Manila, the squadron trained there until the war with Japan began, and then transferred first to Clark Field, and then to Bataan. When the aircraft were withdrawn, the crews became provisional infantry and fought off Japanese landing attempts along the coast until the surrender in April. Bleil survived the Bataan Death March and three years in labor camps in the Philippines before being sent to Japan to work in foundries. Bleil and some of the other prisoners developed a talent for sabotage, but were never caught by the Japanese. After the war, Bleil was told by Army doctors that he would not live very long or be able to father children. Even so, he went back to college, became a doctor, raised a family and is still around to tell his story. He has also published a memoir, Condemned to Death Six Times. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Air Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-03-13 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BleilE1350V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ea9ae0247eadb5636d47ec2c64238011.mp4 b98cbe64cbdd6fefe0fc22e5fac0d8cd https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0bbec565788dd18a17145c7bc308d932.pdf 02d477bcf6db45807c1569334d2da6cd PDF Text Text Block, Kenneth Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Korean War Interviewee’s Name: Kenneth Block Length of Interview: (1:16:37) Interviewed by: James Smither Transcribed by: Maluhia Buhlman Interviewer: “We’re talking today with Ken Block of Spring Lake, Michigan and the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Okay, start us off with some background on yourself and to begin with, where and when were you born?” I was born in Detroit, Michigan right in the middle of the Depression, 1932, had one older brother at that time. Interviewer: “Okay, now did you grow up in Detroit?” Spent my whole life in Detroit until the time I left with Uncle Sam’s tourist bureau. Interviewer: “Alright, and what did your family do for a living when you were growing up?” (00:33) My dad and mother both had come from Minnesota, we had no relatives, no friends, anything here. My dad, he was born in a barn so with my mother they had both been here since- in Minnesota, their family’s rather unusual I guess. My grandfather was born in the kingdom of [unintelligible] Hanover, there was no German country over there, and his- my great-grandfather was then born in 1828, and the other one goes way back. Fortunately all these records were available, in Germany and the one in Switzerland. Same thing, they came from Switzerland about the same time middle 1850’s, Minnesota wasn’t a state. �Block, Kenneth Interviewer: “Not yet, in the 60’s yeah.” My mother’s parents came from Munich, Germany and the other- my mother’s father’s family came from Luxembourg, which wasn’t a country then it was a principality, a Germanic principality. Interviewer: “Okay, now let’s see I think you said that one of your grandfather’s served in the civil war, was that right?” My grandfather’s brother, he was in Minnesota but they never got out of Minnesota because the Indian wars were taking place there, and they needed- and he was only 15 but he got a pension from serving so they took them pretty young at the time I guess. Interviewer: “Alright so why did your parents come to Michigan?” (2:03) Well they- there was no available farm land, my dad was the youngest and my mother was the youngest in big families, and my dad came and originally got a job in Flint, Michigan, general motor chevy bland, but you realize maybe that wasn’t what he really wanted as a career- it went maybe 24, 25. My mother- he wasn’t married yet you know, my mother from Bangor, Minnesota she was a one room school teacher in Minnesota, and heard about an apprenticeship program at Ford Motor. So he applied for it and he got accepted, for a tool and eye maker and ended up in half the tool and eye shops in Detroit. Never started by former apprentices or on that program at Ford Motor Company, which might be why Ford finally cut out the apprentice program where they’re training all those people. Took off or finally left, or they trained him in 1932 and 1931, and there were a lot of layoffs in the factories, the real depths of their approach back then hadn’t been done in 1929, and yeah we did go back to Minnesota for a short period of time but when he came back he got a job at Brady’s manufacturer institute as a tool and eye maker- in the tool and eye shop. Where everyone- where the war started and he got a job training people on certain machines. This would’ve been in 40- 1941, so he was now in a sort of classroom situation with machines and showing Chinese people how to do these operations, he did that many more �Block, Kenneth evenings. Interviewer: “Okay, so by then there’s plenty of work now because we’re making a lot of things.” Yeah, then he and two other guys he met opened a tool and eye shop, when it was pretty iffy in the late 1940’s and there was kind of another semi-depression in 1949. But each took terms as head of corporation, and each took turns going on unemployment, but anyway turned out they had the only set of organized Sherman tanks. They had bought a ton of scraps when they were doing whatever they could to pay, buy surplus machines, they bought a box- dynabox, mix machine parts. You just had to bet, their bad luck turned out a brand new Allison aircraft engine and it had never been touched, so they made a few bucks with forging. They were able to get into the tanker business and were very successful, made quite a bit of money. Interviewer: “Right because we were using a lot of Sherman tanks in Korea at that point.” (5:13) Yeah, gain breaking down- my mother would, every year, she had jobs working at Sears and in the bar but she’s- when the war started she was an excellent seamstress and she got a job on the motor fibers in a parachute sewing business and she was so good at it she became an inspector but she only did it because she had three kids and my youngest brother [unintelligible] Interviewer: “Yeah because there weren’t regular day care facilities or things like that on those days.” So anyways, then my dad died of prostate cancer in 1970. Interviewer: “Okay well let’s back up here now to your stories. So you’re too young for World War II yourself, you’re still a kid in school.” I was 13 when the war ended. �Block, Kenneth Interviewer: “And then when did you finish high school?” 19- actually they were so hard up for high schools they had all this imploding of people from all over the country to work here. High school consisted of going to campus for half a day, if you were a freshman or sophomore you went from noon to about four o’clock, and if you were a junior or senior you went from about eight to 12 o’clock. So the classroom is devoid of pretty much any good thing, I had to sit with- my brother and I had such a bad high school we had such a bad situation that in terms of working- pin in a bowling alley, it can’t be much worse than death. We had a part of time that wasn’t particularly good, I went to Wayne- I didn’t do a college prep program and my mother- I was surprised because my mother had been a teacher but none of them were too involved in looking at what we were doing in high school. So I got outta high, I had to take a test to get into Wayne so I did pass and got into Wayne. My brother- which we’ll talk about to God, went to a place- he was very interested in television, got a job with Bad Man Monk’s, I think it was called in Detroit who sold television many times since cell one, and the people would make a part- so much a month being that early payment, and I didn’t go in and confiscate the television bag. They’d maybe have to do some repairs so he was into that, and it really helped him out because he went to an electronics institute, he was so interested in the electronics, and he was just ready when the war comes along where they gave him a deferment for a year to let him finish his program there. Interviewer: “Okay, and now you’re talking about the Korean war?” (8:17) Yeah Interviewer: “Okay, but you started Wayne State and what were you studying there?” Up until the time I got shipped to Texas I was in the geology program, but that’s one of the reasons I accepted the idea of going into the Air Force full time. With a geology major and- I was going with a girl, her cousin…he and I became pretty good friends, he was a geology major. [he said] “Damn, a geology major from Wayne isn’t gonna getcha nothing. You better get �Block, Kenneth something that’s gonna earn you a living,” and I thought how do you switch together all these geology classes and about 20 hours of geology, semester hours of geology, and you know I can still make a change but if I do switch first I’m deferred but they’re not gonna defer me if I’m totally switching the program. I’m not gonna graduate for four more years or something so I thought, you know well I was good at accounting. I took an accounting class, a bookkeeping class in high school. I was very good at it, and I majored in accounting. It was funny because I know I could get a job with an accounting degree. Interviewer: “Right, so how did you wind up going into the service?” (9:31) Well the physics class I was taking in a semester that the Korean war started, in that spring semester talk did- a man that mentioned talk to me- well he didn’t talk to me he was Chinese, but he knew I was interested in meteorology. Said “Hey we got this weather gauge thing on the Selfridge, come out one weekend you get four days pay for being there for the weekend.” You know whatever, so why not come for a week. Interviewer: “So this is a reserve unit?” Yeah, Air Force Reserve. I never heard that much about national guard as far as everything we were involved in at Selfridge. At that time now its a national base but at that time it was Air Force reserve. So I went out and the first meeting was the day I got sworn in down at the federal building and when everything got written I don’t think I ever, I didn’t even have to take a physical that’s how everything was running. So I went up there in the one meeting, they’d come up one weekend a month in June, and then the war broke out June 25th. So then, I’m sitting around that right- that last five or four days in June and maybe the first four, five days in July, with a classmate of mine. We’re not a close friend but we knew each other pretty well and we were talking, we’re sitting around and he was in the Army Reserves, and then he- he was one of those guys that they were still drafting in 1947-48 a lot maybe 30-40,000 a year or 20,000 but he for two years he got in to get their basic training done. They said “We’re gonna let you out in 60 days, but then you have to be in the active reserves for the balance of the active reserve training.” Well it sounded to them like a good deal, so he was updating classes and he was in here and now �Block, Kenneth he was concerned. Quite a story, so I saw him then probably- within a couple of days I’d find out later, [unintelligible] then that was the last I saw him we were standing there seeing who was gonna get called up first, and I come back in September, late September, and I go to this coffee shop, this wings and coffee it was right across the street from Home Main if you’re familiar with the university, and I saw him and I said “Hey, what the hell happened to you?” and he said “Boy do I have a story.” He said “The week after I talked to you we got called up, and all of those guys have been put in the army reserve.” and he said “We did bullshit, we didn’t do nothing.” He said “They shipped up to Camp McCoy in Wisconsin and then to Washington State. I was in Korea in August, I was in Korea two weeks, and I got machine gunned across the back and broke the bone in one leg. But the others healed up and they shipped me back.” and he said “They’re letting me get- I think it was at that veteran’s hospital there in Allen Park they were working on and I said “Man are you gonna have a great paper to write for ‘what I did on my summer vacation’” but there were so many stories of that type of guys. Their whole life going through this tumultuous change just in short periods of time. Interviewer: “Okay so what winds up happening to you? You’ve joined this Air Force reserve based at Selfridge Air Force Base Michigan, and then- but you’re not activated yet?” (13:40) No they never did activate, if anything they probably eliminated the outfit. Interviewer: “So, what happens to you? You’re still in school then, this is now the fall of 1950, and how long do you stay in school like what else goes on?” I was able to stay in that reserve unit while it was still active up until 19- the fall of 1951. Interviewer: “Okay, now while you were in the reserve unit, what kind of training, if any did you get?” We just went there and worked with the guys, the enlisted men, you know releasing the balloons and checking dew point temperature, etc. It was education for me because it turned out- oh they �Block, Kenneth had three officers that turned out, but one of the officers had four days away from it where my parents house was, and so I could just drive with him on the weekends that we’re out there. And hell it was only a 15 mile ride which is rather convenient, we would collect all the data and then the officers of course- in those days we did have a small radar set but that was really too much. They might introduce- an introduction to what the fax machine is thermal fax. But that’s actually what the New York Times are built for because our machine said property of New York Times because they used it to send pictures. You know like thermal, because it was on a roller like an old piano player and a needle went across and you know made this picture and then we would record all the temperatures from air to the base that was coming into us and the median area. We’d have that plotted out- we didn’t do that you know in those days to be a meteorologist you had to have a master’s degree in mathematics, because you ended up having to work with all these formulas, and then they would create a map and then the other- but this had to be done on that. It’s amazing that base men- meteorologist, he loved it that these guys came up and gave him a weekend off every month. So you know there wasn’t really any training, I think it’s amazing that I had you know barely any basic training. Here’s a picture of me, this is December of 1950, when I was 18 years old. That was our backyard, we had this one uniform- but that was a December uniform, but that was the only uniform I had, so I had to wear that every time we wore our uniform in the summer, the same uniform. Interviewer: “Alright, and so are you following what’s happening in Korea at this point?” (16:43) I was very interested in what was going on, watched it carefully, very interested at airports at that time. The blade- some of the blades that were there were still C-46’s, you know the C-119 Flying Boxcars, they took those immediately and they needed those right that summer over in Korea. Interviewer: “So the aircraft that had been based at Selfridge before the war, those transport planes they all get sent out, the personnel get sent out.” Now in the Air Force carriers at Selfridge had been sent out as a troop carrier wing, being with F-86’s. That was the first line, you had anti-aircraft guns set up on Belle Isle, so that was, you �Block, Kenneth know just for that year and a half, now what happened after you know then as I mentioned before I came back to Selfridge base when I was able to get myself involved. As I said before there was a number of deferments that had gone through already. I was deferred, first of all they let you finish your semester class, and then if you take this other test and you can’t pass that then you were deferred until you graduated, but then you would go in automatically with your graduation I guess. It gave you a train ticket and you’d serve two years, I knew a couple of fellas that had majored in chemistry and so on- graduated and then they ended up going in the army but unfortunately so many of them didn’t get the advantage that maybe some of the early draftees had. But you know it was a great deal, I got the G.I bill Interviewer: “So basically you’re spending I guess, initially you’re just in the reserves unit and that goes into late ‘51 and then what changes late in ‘51?” (18:44) I got- I figured if that reserve unit was gonna close down I need a I didn’t- If I was gonna go through in two years I might as well wait, go through, and get a program that was gonna get me a job and you know do the reverse. I’ll do my military assigned time now and go back to school when I get back, and then I’ll be on the G.I bill. Interviewer: “Okay because you changed your programs and so forth you put yourself a little bit behind. Okay, so you basically decide to go active duty at this point?” No, I was in the Air Force ROTC, I would’ve had two years to finish up yet with the Air Force without having had the first two years. I got- I don’t know they must’ve thought I had basic training or something, but anyway they admit. All I knew about it was I went down to register for a class and they did pay you a little bit of money. Before that the fall-and in the fall, in the winter, that winter, they closed down the Enid Air Force Base for three or for days for multiengine. Trying to talk you into going to cadets rather than just delay the program waiting for ROTC, armament officer, thought we were taking apart 20 millimeter and 50 caliber machine guns and stuff like that, and I was kind of mechanical but it was not something that really- that I was very interested in guns I was an expert in [unintelligible] I had the highest mark on the rifle range and there were like 10,000 that took it during that period. I had the highest score, been �Block, Kenneth shooting cartridge with a 22 since I was ten years old at first- 22 I bought in those days. I got on my bicycle with my paper route money, went down to Beaumont Park- I said I bought a 22 in box, a 22 Jeff, but didn’t get too much a chance to use it because my dad didn’t have enough gas ration ticket coupons to go up. They had a little cottage way up on Lake Michigan, so didn’t get much too much involved there. Interviewer: “Alright, so basically you’re in- so you stay in school but now you’re in the ROTC?” Yeah. Interviewer: “Alright, but you basically skip the first part of ROTC and they just let you join in the middle of the program?” (21:16) Yeah, because I was in the Air Force reserves and so the team- they got me discharged from the other- from the Air Force reserves. Interviewer: “Alright so now you’re in ROTC, now do you complete that program?” No, I would have had another year to go after this come- I was just going into- I would have been in it for two years. So I stayed in it and then at the end of the semester, of course the war hadn’t started yet, you turn your uniform and everything in and then they gotta close the office up on campus. I know they probably went home on their furloughs or whatever and it turned out with this friend of mine- this acquaintance of mine and me driving them out to Selfridge. Interviewer: “Okay, now you explained that to me off camera, can you kind of tell the story- you’re on camera so the audience will actually hear it.” Yeah, of course I lived in Detroit but I was usually down in, down at Wayne university. I had various jobs down there, I worked in the library on one occasion and on various others I had there. So I was in the ROTC as of May when I turned in my uniform I thought “Well what am I �Block, Kenneth going to do next semester?” I said “I don’t want to stay in this geology program that’s going nowhere for me. My marks were great but I could just pick any geology major at Wayne, and I thought “What am I gonna do with that next semester when I go down to register for classes, it’s like you know I’m not gonna be graduating at the end of next year. How does it work? Well I never had a chance to talk this over with anybody, so that is- situation developed where this acquaintance of mine needed a ride out to Selfridge. Interviewer: “Okay, so when is this that this happens?” (23:24) This all happened in…I’d say July. Interviewer: “Of what year?” 1950. Oh, I’m sorry this is going back to July of 1952. Interviewer: “Right okay so we’re July ‘52, you know somebody who needs to get to Selfridge, you don’t need to go there but?” Well I told him as a favor to him I said “I’ll buy the gas you get the car.” I was supposed to get a ride but I started- I made this appointment that’s all set up for me but I gotta go down to the federal building. You drive me to the federal building, pick up the papers and then we’ll drive out to Selfridge, and I said then you could just drop me back off you know I could get around Detroit on a bus then. Interviewer: “Okay so you take him up to Selfridge and what happens when you get there?” Well they gave me a physical. Interviewer: “Why are they giving you a physical?” �Block, Kenneth Well becauseInterviewer: “You just dropped him off.” The recruiter downtown had said “Why as long as you’re going out there with him, why don’t you go out and get a physical too? It’s a great flight physical I mean it cost under $10” and I thought for sure there’s no way they're gonna pass me, I’m wearing glasses! They’ll say “I’m sorry son but you don’t have 20/20 uncorrected vision.” So I get down there and I get the whole physical, I didn’t even know I passed the physical when I left. Interviewer: “Okay now was this a physical for pilot training?” (25:02) Yes this was strictly to go in the air- in the aviation cadet program which was- and I understood that to only because I’m talking to this acquaintance, that if for some reason you didn’t make ityou know physical or you just weren’t suited to this training that you only had to serve out about two years so you wouldn’t be drafted. Which sounds like you know, a can’t lose situation just because I gave up all my deferments I had now just to get into this, and now I have another one except I’ll be on active duty now for two years, and then I could go back after the two years and if I can take that sort of program I think I really should have. Interviewer: “Okay so you’ve gone there, you take the physical, and then what happens?” They dilated my eyes and went through the whole bit, I know it was a couple two, three hours, so then we get dressed and go home, and they said “Well we’ll let you know.” Well they did let me know, now I never saw my acquaintance so I don’t know if he passed or failed but I think I might have bumped into him and he said he didn’t pass, but anyway I get a letter two weeks later that said “you passed” and an envelope. I guess I must’ve signed something and not realized it but I hadn’t been sworn into anything, and because I still wasn’t in the Air Force- we would like to give you three more days of testing out on this new field in Illinois. Which is where we do allat least east of the Mississippi anyway, where you go through like the training and all these phases and all kinds of tests, paper test, ect. It’s three days of testing, I mean it was enjoyable, it �Block, Kenneth was entertaining, you know “What’s going on here?” but I’ll just go with the flow. So anyway, I come home and like a week or two later they say “You passed.” and I said “What do I do now” and they said “Well you can sign up now if you want to if you’re ever worried about getting drafted or something, because you’ve got no deferments left we’ve got you knocked off all these deferments.” So I said “Well you know this sounds pretty good.” I always loved everything about flight and the Air Force, you know that’s why I got into the Air Force reserves when I did. So go down- it was an interesting train trip. I was put in charge of this one car, we spent our first night- Now you got sworn in in the federal building, they took you over to old Fort Wayne in Detroit which has been there since the War of 1812 I guess. We stayed there that day and overnight, the next morning we were taken to the Grand Central Station. They had one car that was all our car so there were about 30 I guess or 40, it was a sleeper car, maybe it was 25 I can’t remember it was just a car and the reason I don’t remember too much is because I was the only one who had a little bit of Air Force reserves background, and I’d been to college, a little bit that they put me in charge. I had all the paperwork and all the guys, I was a big time guy here all of the sudden. So anyway there’s one young black fella that was there, and I could see he was really nervous he was the only one that was black, and I had been giving this special end car thing, I had my own room it was about the size of this room with the bunk beds and we had our own, it’s own sink. He said “I’m scared, I’m really scared about being in [unintelligible], would you mind…” He was just an 18 year old kid he was married to it, he looked like he was about 16. Interviewer: “So what was he afraid of? Just going south?” (29:20) Just being- He’d never been around white people before so I think it was more his concern than it for the white guys, they weren’t concerned about him obviously because they were 20 and he was just this one guy, and I said “Sure.” He just felt nervous, I had talked to him previously and I guess he figured I wasn’t- I said “Sure that's fine with me if you feel safer in here then sure, great.” and it was no trouble going down, the guys were all good. I said “Look, I don’t care what you have or what you do, just don’t give me any trouble, I don’t want to start my career in trouble because I let you guys get- If there’s any cans or anything you’ve got you drop them down the toilet so they drop on the railroad tracks. I don’t want any mess in the car and if we stop some place you better get your ass back here way early before the train takes off again.” So �Block, Kenneth we got all the way down to- Let’s see it was about two days of train travel we we’re talking 1500 mile travel or something down there and it wasn’t a super fast airplane. Interviewer: “Alright, now would it stop places you could get off?” Yeah, it’d go into the station and you know, whatever buy snacks, but they served us our food and everything right we didn’t leave the car they served us like box lunches or whatever. Interviewer: “Okay, because you are heading into the segregated south, so the black service man might have an interesting time if he’s in the wrong place or does the wrong thing, but nothing came up?” (30:50) Nothing came up I don’t know if he even got- I never got off, I never bothered going in to get anything but I don’t know maybe he did at random but we were going through states like Illinois, Missouri, I don’t know maybe the closes may have been would have been maybeInterviewer: “You might go through Arkansas, Louisiana, and then Texas.” And by that time I think we were probably- it was night travel. I don’t know, at least I never thought of the problem, I wasn’t aware that there was that much segregation. I just wasn’t aware and I don’t think most of the guys- A lot of them were up from the Flint area. Interviewer: “Sure, sure you’re all kind of from Michigan. So now you get down to San Antonio, now what happens?” Well you know you go through more of they, issue new uniforms and give you another physical. Which I don’t know I guess they gave you a physical or something down there and kind of clued you in as to what was going on. What the requirements were, what you couldn’t do and what you could do. Basically had a good experience in basic training I kind of enjoyed it, it was a long day I didn’t mind it though. �Block, Kenneth Interviewer: “Okay, so here you are getting Air Force basic training.” Right, it was 12 weeks. Interviewer: “Alright, and what does that actually consist of?” (32:06) Oh we went on night marches and they blow off dynamite off inside or something at night and they’d put you through a building with tear gas where you put a mask on. We had class, a lot of classes you had to take math and there’s things that might prepare you for various tank schools, and then you would use that- It’s also good information as to what kind of assignment they might give you some college math. So obviously I mean I did better than probably most of them, most of them were just high school there might have been one or two but I’m not aware of it, that they went beyond high school. Of course at that point in time 1950, probably about 10% of graduating classes went to college. Interviewer: “Right okay, so you do well in the testing, was this where you did the rifle range stuff too?” Oh yeah you know they were having problems in Korea they had some of the people there that didn’t know how to shoot a gun practically. So they want to make sure all the Air Force people would have some training so- but our basic weapon was just a carbine iron I was familiar with a Garand--rifles- I’d been around rifles all my life so, and that was enjoyable I was alright, a lot depended on the rifle you got too, how accurate it was. I think I just lucked out, I had a lot of training, as a matter of fact when I was in high school we had a rifle range in the basement, at Debbie high school you could come down there one night a week and shoot at targets they had. I guess high school ROTC they would practice in the basement with 22’s. Interviewer: “Okay now, was there also a lot of discipline?” I was used to discipline all my life so I didn’t think it was much worse. I think the officers I thought were- Oh not the officers, the… �Block, Kenneth Interviewer: “The sergeants or the NCO’s who were training you again.” Kind of- They were good but then they would carry it too far, it was rather funny as one of them found my classmates from Wayne it turns out he was in another group. The guys, as it turns out they got over- He was a Canadian, but he had joined the American Air Force, and he was a TI, and he had the same job as these guys that were over us had, so he knew me really well. I mean I knew him better than a lot of people, but there were classes a lot of basic, you know the rules, marching, I did a lot of marching. But I always enjoyed even marching, you know actual group marching like parade marching. I thought that was good physical exercise. Interviewer: “Alright, now the people you were training with were they potentially going to do any number of different things in the Air Force.” (35:14) You didn’t- They didn’t find out what they were assigned to and in those days you didn’t get to pick what you were gonna go into. You went into what they said, what they thought you were qualified for so. There was a rumor, and they would start rumors deliberately like, “Okay, this whole group is going to cook school.” or “This group is going into-” gosh don’t believe rumors. They’d feed us all this just to keep you, you know. Don’t pay too much attention to what people say because it’s all fake news. Interviewer: “Alright, so what happens to you now? Once you finish your training.” Well we get that last day where you know we’re actually there is when they start telling people, when they run and the guy says “We don’t know what to do with you.” but they brought over this book. It was this big loose leaf binder, and it had open positions. It had every air base in the United States, matter of fact there might have even been some in Europe I guess. I never got that far, so I look through and I “oh well let's see what’s at Selfridge.” Interviewer: “So are you-” �Block, Kenneth I looked at Selfridge, I had looked at a couple other places and said “ehh I don’t know about that” and like Dakota, I’ve got relatives in North Dakota but I didn’t want to go to North Dakota. Interviewer: “Okay, so why are they letting you pick?” Because they had to put me some place, there was over a year and a half left. Interviewer: “Alright but why wouldn’t they just assign you somewhere?” (36:51) Well that’s what I said, they were always very good to me the Air Force Reserves. Interviewer: “But was it because you tested well, was that part of it?” No, no just whatever it was I had to find it- Something in this book that I think [unintelligible] lowest level, so I just, they sent me up there. They could’ve just used me as a floor washer or permanent KPer or something. I accepted a slot at the 22 42nd, now that’s a regular Air Force actually it stands for Air Force Reserve Training Center. Which was part of the 10th Air Force which was also headquartered at Selfridge at that time. So I get up there and I hand them- you carried that service record with you, and I give it to the guy and the guy says- they had just requested a spot for a real low level flunky, I said, “Well, I can’t do this,” and he said “We’ve got a position open in the office, you know base of operations, right now for the 22 42nd for clerk typist, do you know how to type?” “Oh sure, I can type, I took typing,” and I could do 50, 60 words and was pretty good at it, and he said, “Oh great, that’s the same as a stenographer.” So I got to attend that position, which was interesting you know I type fast for [unintelligible] discharged board. I got to type up in, I think it was ‘51, might have been ‘52, but 1951 these orders they said “Hey,” normally we didn’t get this “type these orders up pretend they’re fours, then distribute to our unit because we don’t have enough copies.” So I typed up this order and as I said Lindbergh was on the order, and I know he was recalled or- He was promoted, he was an Air Force reservist, was promoted to brigadier general, and Jimmy Stewart either it was already maybe temporary rank of brigadier general, he had been a colonel for a while- was also on the orders and I can’t remember when I moved in 1990, and getting all the papers and stuff what’s �Block, Kenneth happened, I had a folder full of stuff and it just plain disappearing. So I lost those orders which I would have, you know it was kind of a rogue kind of thing, but they don’t survive you can see I’ve got my orders here these papers, here’s my orders when I got discharged. Now you know that’s what you’re typing up that sort of thing. Interviewer: “Right, okay so you’re- so how long did you spend doing that?” Over a year and a half. Interviewer: “Okay, so what kind of stands out in your memory about the time you spent there?” (40:01) Oh let’s see, probably the thing that stands out, I got to know this fella pretty well, and he frequently got in a little bit of trouble. He was an older guy in his 30’s I would imagine, but when I got hospitalized- When I moved from Texas up to Selfridge I went from 70 degree temperature to a miserable cold day, and I’d been there maybe a week or two, these barracks were built. There were coal fire little furnaces, coal in there, one big room and it had these little wall partitions, but I got seriously sick. I woke up in the middle of the night at two, three o’clock, and I go in, over to the dispensary or whatever you call it where you go. I’m walking over and it’s two in the morning and I go in there and there’s like a dead guy laying on the floor. I said “I got a burning fever, I’m sick, and I got a dead guy on the floor and there’s no one else around.” So finally two guys, I don’t know if they were FBI or secret service or what it was, and they ask me, “Who the hell are you?” I said, “What are you here for?” I said, “I’m sick” but anyway it was fine, I found out later what they were investigating was that he had hung himself in the stockade, and it turned out that several people, they were really sick people that were watching the people, and there was a big investigation I remember. So if we ever hear anybody, we’ll know where they got the information, you know “You better not open your mouth.” So anyway, but that all worked alright and it really worked out rather fortunate for me, this was- Now I’d just been at Selfridge and I’d only been in service like six months and a hospital nurse took care of me with one of the people named Jeremy and she knew that she had seen me at church or Catholic, and [unintelligible] I think I was there in the high school maybe five or six days with a �Block, Kenneth really serious throat injury, and I was also running scarlet fever which when I was four 25%, 20% of the kids died if they got scarlet fever in those days, but it was a serious throat infection. So I’m in the hospital area and we’re talking and she said “Well, you know why don’t you- If you want.” I was living on base and driving, “I’m taking classes at Wayne university if you’re full time serving military service there’s no tuition it’s free, absolutely free.” Man this is, thank you Jesus really looking after me and so when I got out of the hospital, the first negro I got to know really well was a doctor, he was a black doctor captain from Detroit, I guess he was from Detroit, I assume he might have been from- I don’t know. Great guy, if he had been my family doctor he was a great guy, I don’t know if I’ve had a doctor I like better than him. So really it was good for me to be at this introduction because Minnesota where my parents and all my relatives lived, I had cousins that would come down man it was like they had never seen black people before in their life. So they didn’t- my parents didn’t bring any prejudice with them either, but anyway then I was able to get- I’d take this English course that I wasn’t that happy to get, I wasn’t really anticipating enjoying it but it turned out it was really quite good so, and that worked out fine but then halfway through that semester, this would have been 1951… Interviewer: “Well wait was this after, this is while you’re at Selfridge now?” (44:30) I’m still at Selfridge [overlapping chatter] Interviewer: “So it’s more like ‘53 by then probably right?” What was that? Interviewer: “You just said ‘51 and it wasn’t until ‘52 that you got up to Selfridge.” Oh, I keep getting the years- yeah this would have been 1953. This would have been- I’m sorry this would have been 1953 the middle of the semester, I was home for the weekend and there’s a power failure or something because I had to go on detail to stoke the fire, the stove in the barracks, and I didn’t go off, so I didn’t show up and this one sergeant he was just, not very bright loved having a little bit of power. He’s gonna put me in for a court martial that gets me up �Block, Kenneth the office. He said, “Now wait a minute-“Major Kellerman, that ran the operation said to me…let me see, he’s on separate rations- I skipped a part, I got so sick, when I was sick in the hospital, Kellerman Major Kellerman said, “Hey you folks let’s eat-” some of these are so bad, you wanna [unintelligible] separate rations, usually you have to be buried or something or be an NCO, he said, “Nah, it’s alright, you’ll just be on a one meal a day plan,” and so I was on separate rations living at home, that’s why I was staying home overnight, and the alarm didn’t go off. So I wasn’t there for that two o’clock stoking the furnace, and the Major Kellerman tells the guy, he said, “Now look, he’s on separate rations right, you can’t eat in the jail except one meal, which you’re gonna put him on KP all day but he can only eat one meal okay. He’s gotta be in the barracks to stoke the furnace but he doesn’t have a room in the barracks.” He said, “Oh, use your head.” So the Major Kellerman’s solution was he took me off all detail and all KP. So that little problemSomeone’s looking after me up there, so I lived the rest of the time, the last year, over a year I was on separate rations. I lived at home, I didn’t have a bunk, I was regular Air Force, I was promoted up to air men second class, the problem was- I couldn’t go to any of these schools that I qualified for because its like a, what is it, a double whammy. To qualify for a school not only do you have to have all the paper requirements, you had to have two years of your service remaining to go to that school after you graduated. So I couldn’t, I couldn’t go into an assignment like in meteorology, I couldn't be a weatherman because you had to go to that weather school, even though I worked for a year and a half in that area and I had taken the college course in meteorology because I didn’t go to that school. When there’s probably some decent reasons for that but in any case it worked out alright just being a- working in the office there Interviewer: “Now what was actually going on at the base, I mean what was it used for?” (48:30) At that point in time what we were- It was also a defense we had f-86’s on the base. Interviewer: “Okay and those are jet fighters right?” They were there, they were regular Air Force, they were there to protect Detroit, the other thing �Block, Kenneth we did on the base was in 1951, late ‘51 start of ‘52, they redesignated the 439th troop carrier wing to the 439th fighter bomber wing, and for that spring and summer we had mustangs and Texas T-6’s, and they were recalling fighter pilots from World War II. Guys were getting unhappy, guys they were a bit in the active reserve and they didn’t like the idea of getting called up and again this is not a flying club here. So anyway, that only went on for about six months or so continued on, and mustangs still were used in Korea at that point at that point- Up until that point, and then they changed they switched over to F-80, lock and lightning planes and I got to fly in them in a T-33, said “Hey I’m gonna see if I can make you sick.” So I didn’t get to fly although I was a front seater, you know on a training plane the guy that’s controlling it sits behind you and he can close you out but you can’t close him out from flying the plane, but I didn’t fly it, don't get me wrong. Anyway, let’s see where were we? Interviewer: “Well we were just gonna talk about different things that happened while in that time you’re spending now on active duty itself.” (50:25) This guy, this sergeant I was telling you, this is a different sergeant, this guy you know he had been in the Bataan death march, captured in Corregidor, survived the death march, and then was transported sometime in 1942 period to Japan on a cargo ship going back from the Philippines, Japanese controlled and survived all the American ships trying to torpedo everything that came in sight. Interviewer: “That may have been in ‘44 but okay.” He gets into Japan and we were at this camp, and he said on the base of the camp itself it wasThe worst was a guy I’m not gonna mention names he was a master sergeant, terrible and he making all these special considerations because of being the head guy, or at least that’s what he told me. He said “We were shipped off we were taken out of the prison every morning to a factory, we worked in the factory, the end of the day-” but he said “In the factory we were treated every bit as well as the people who worked there, we got the same food rations, everything.” So that’s why he came out reasonably healthy, but he spent the rest of that- far as I know the whole period of the war, he was in that prison camp from ‘42 to 45, but of course I �Block, Kenneth don’t know how long it took him from then in ‘42 to get back but I think they shipped him out pretty fast if the cargo ships coming from Japan with cargo and it’s troops and stuff, it goes back empty and takes these prisoners and if they got torpedoed by the Americans they just went down with the ship, but he had some broken- fascinating stories. You know to be on the first hand talking basis with him and I think he had a little bit of a drinking problem, and when I was sick he wrote down the dispensary said, “Get me some codeine,” better known as G.I gin, it had a high alcohol content cause he’d be sitting up there for some disciplinary reason not all the time but every once in a while he’d be up stuck there all day and I said, “If you’re going up there today to get your painkiller, could you pay me back?” It was just one shot in a bottle it was good stuff it tasted like- G.I gin, G.I gin tasted like a martini a gin martini I guess but it really worked, but I’m trying to think, let’s see what did I- I don’t think I’m missing anything here. Okay then so we were there a year and a half I said- I got more citations put up for an air man of the month they had gotten in and I always felt some guys would just goof off every chance they had in service, and I find time passes better when you’re doing something. They got an transit graph machine which you can type little metal plates with names and address the things, you could do them for name tags, ect, but I suggested I said, we’ve got the woman working on that so frankly all she did was mail out stuff and I had to type up all the envelopes all of this reserved us, you know what I mean probably everybody reserved us. So why don’t I just type up plates for them and then you can just run them under- So I went down there and they were in a nice brick building way in the center of the base, and I took all their bios I take one tray at a time from the office and go up there and type them or whatever I could do. (54:59) Within two days I had all of them all done back and the guys from 10th Air Force they told me that every time I go down there the sound of working [typing noises] typing up these plates, these metal plates. So it was not a really, that big a job, I guess I just had no supervision and I got it done, but I was glad the guy that did get it, [unintelligible] fire when the plane come in. They had included a weekend at hotel downtown Detroit, and I didn’t have girlfriend, I lived in Detroit, don’t even really consider that, don’t even consider that I’m not even- Every month they would come up with air man of the month kind of situation but it was [unintelligible] talking about something else here too, of course I typed up this, I typed up demos you know the orders this kind of thing, typing up orders, shipping people around you know so. I guess I didn’t bring it- Oh I know what I was gonna mention, it’s my brother and I, this would’ve been in 1950- That would’ve been in 1952. I don’t �Block, Kenneth know if that’s even going to come up, yep. You know my brother finished his electronics institute, and he was immediately- he was married, but he was immediately drafted. Do you remember a guy by the name of B. Walt Meyer that wrote for the Detroit news? Interviewer: “No.” Well anyways big on the Detroit news until just a few years ago and he worked as a cub reporter outside of high school we all went to high school together, but he was a major- he was one of the major Detroit news people, but anyway he and my brother it turns out are standing in the line together they just got sworn in, and they said “Every other guy step out, you’re in the Marine Corps.” This was just right after they got massacred in North Korea the marines, and it really I think really worked out for the individuals in for the corps. They look through the work and the best and the army did the same thing, like when my brother-in-law was a- I forget what you call the technical name, the heavy machine mover for Ford. He had gone through an apprenticeship, got drafted and they immediately put him in for tank recovery. Well my brother with his electronics they said “Damn, you’ve got all this electronics we haven’t got” it takes so long to train anybody for this kind of stuff. We finished Parris Island, their basic training, they had a guy come over and ran the school for- the electronic school. He says “He knows ten times more than I do anything.” so they shipped him up to Cherry Point, so he spent- as a matter of fact in the Marine Corp if you’ve got possession you got that rank- temporary rank. So he was only in service in the Marine Corp maybe a year and he was a three star, well you can see right here he’s only a corporal but that was- he got drafted in ‘51 this was like six months later he’s already a corporal, and then they made him a sergeant. The only time he got out of the country to go to port [unintelligible] everyone maneuvers with them I guess but he just stayed and his first daughter was born there. I don’t know anything more, anything else I can go into, discharge was kind of an interesting situation, separation for service. Now, it just said “Separate and release from assignment” okay. (59:35) Now normally at the time, and then my brother was that way, you spent two years on active duty and then you were in the reserves I think for four or six years, I forget what it was, or in reserves- Anyway, and so when I was getting discharged they said “Well, you’re separated from service.” and I said “You know what I was just reading some place in a book, if you had prior military service you weren’t required to have that four years.” Now, �Block, Kenneth there was nothing it was a limbo from December 1949, until August 1950, that summer Congress had got around to saying what your status would be and so then what they came up with, well there was nothing on the books if you had prior service, and you weren’t required to have any reserve requirements. I said, “You know, I think I get a discharge right now.” I said “I don’t want to get out and find out I can get drafted or called up on active duty or something right away.” I was 24 years old- 22, or 23 years old I want to get out and live my life instead of going back to the Pentagon, so one of my papers is “Air Force ranked” such and such and such, so they gave me a discharge, again it was another double whammy but it kind of worked out in my favor. It wouldn’t have been a problem, I guess I could just been an inactive reserve, my brother didn’t get discharged I think until 1961 finally. Interviewer: “Alright, now this tape is about up so I’m gonna stop here…Alright now we’ve kind of gotten in your story pretty much to the point of your discharge but you mentioned to me off camera here, you did at some point- you spent time in a hospital earlier-” It was the throat Interviewer: “With your throat, and you also got injured at some point?” (1:01:44) Well correct, I didn’t know at the- it was a terrible pain, so I went in to the unit there and he couldn’t see anything wrong. Well about a week later it was really bad I had an abscess all the way across my mouth and I lost all these teeth. What they did, which I don’t think they normally did they made a permanent bridge, if that was done today it’d be about $12,000. They had to replace these with the new format they had. Interviewer: “Now do you know how it happened?” I don’t know. Interviewer: “So you didn’t have an accident or something?” �Block, Kenneth You know I forget really, all I remember is afterwards, you know nothing I could see. Was it the result of doing this, was it this? All I could say is you know it wasn’t any tooth decay it was just a tooth that was cracked across, leads eventually all of these had to be pulled out and they made that bridge which they replaced, I mean I had to have it redone. Interviewer: “Okay now, when you were finishing up your enlistment did the Air Force make any effort to encourage you to reenlist?” (1:03:11) Oh sure, yeah but they knew I wasn’t really going to be interested, they tried to get my brother too. I mean- He and I and on this I absolutely believe, had I gone in I was so, I was very fond of it if you wanna call it that, of the Air Force, I love flying, that had I not [audio cuts out] your eyes aren’t correctable to 20/20, would have gone in to many of the units, I think I was going with they were being schooled for the new jet bombers they were with the twin blades I think it was the B-47 [audio cuts out] Stuart was in netbook movie they made, that plane with the bomber that was coming, that was the first bomber that flew over 400 miles an hour, 500 miles an hour, and I would’ve stayed in service. I probably would’ve made a career out of service, and those are the same guys that all got shot down over in Vietnam were the bombers that where most of the Air Force you know air craft were. The bombers that got hit were getting shot down by large numbers. Interviewer: “So, once you did get out what did you do?” I went right back to Wayne university to school and I graduated a year and a half later with a degree, I got a master’s degree in business, and I got to be a CPA. What I- actually I never practiced I just, guys worked for the department of the Navy too because of my background on machines, no business on government projects. That’s the only other experience I had in this area, I had contractors and Grand Rapids and Holland, Michigan, and building destroyers in Bay City where we give them you know, of course at that time it was about 2 and a half million dollars for the basic structure of the destroyer and they made the best destroyer [audio cuts out] yard in Bay City, but they eventually closed down because they couldn’t keep all the shipyards �Block, Kenneth open. Though, you know I did have auditing experience with these outfits, and I would have been working on a doctorate in economics for a year- I’m too old for this kind of thing up there in limbo and satellite rock their world so, [audio cuts out] 39 by that time, I good bit you can substitute one of the languages, you can take math and calculus and different relations and different equations and so I did that part. That’s just getting the classwork and getting a dissertation approved, I said “I don’t want this.” my kids are graduating from high school they’re gonna be in college and I’d be up there still, but my kids did very very well. My son got into med school outta high school with a six year program and our daughter went to law school in Ann Arbor, yeah she kind of teaches at Fordham she’s been there for many many years. My kids are pushing 60 now so they’re older than you are. Interviewer: “Not by too much. Alright so, aside from the education part, what do you think you took out of your military experience?” (1:06:46) Well I took a lot- I certainly took a lot more out then I even put in. I got a lot of benefits from service in terms of having a time to sit down and think “What am I really gonna do” and reorganize my life. I met a lot of very wonderful people that I never would have had the opportunity to have met had it not been for the military experience. As I said I got the G.I bill, and one of the reasons I got the master’s degree was that I still had, after I got out because I already had almost two years in and I still had two years of G.I bill left so I thought “okay to get a master’s degree- you only have to 12 semester hours to get full benefits?” So that made my- I bought a new house, a $15,000 house but I made my house- monthly house payment, so I got into a new house probably before everyone else, so I got a lot more out of it. If I hadn’t gotten a master’s degree because of when I went to- I was, I had been working for the Navy for three years from ‘63 to ‘62 maybe to 1965. I did a lot of travel I had the whole state of Michigan, various contracts, General Motors, Flint, Holland, Saginaw, and I was out at the air university and right then at an Air Force base for a couple of weeks and at one point in time that this just isn’t conducive to having teenage kids. I had often- I was gonna apply just temporarily while I looked for a job. I quit the job with the Navy, “Man this is like going to heaven.” I really liked the kids and college kids never talk back to you, or they usually don't, they, you know, they’re there because they want to be there. So, and then the advantage was too that you’re off during the �Block, Kenneth summers and you’ve winter off, and none of the benefits I would’ve had if it hadn’t had been some guy taking me through the military it could’ve been a totally different life. That- I buy a Volkswagen camper bus, buy it in this country but for deliver in Amsterdam they don’t pay any taxes, excise tax is nothing then buy for, so 169, I bought one in Amsterdam, drove it and it was great for the kids, Africa you know all over Europe, and this is pretty good. 1971 did the same thing but this time I had planned we were gonna drive on Peter, Saint Petersburg, but I got the visa from Russia pay the [unintelligible] man don’t you have to drive through- Do not, do not drive through East Germany, I feel like I got all the same- visa from Russia to go into there on a door, on a travel visa. So instead went through Czechoslovakia and Poland into the Ukraine, and just for the kick of it drove down through the Ukraine into Romania, Hungary, down to Istanbul, Turkey, and then over down through Greece, a marvelous experience for kids. Interviewer: “So the only East Bloc country to give you trouble was East Germany? The other ones were pretty happy to have you.” (1:11:05) Yeah, yeah they said you can so much as have a license plate bracket not right and they’ll throw you in jail. Terrible, in the Ukraine they were wonderful, really nice, I don’t know if you’ve got time for this sort of thing. So coming out of the Ukraine coming back into Hungary, Lvov in the Ukraine, my wife has Polish background you can understand maybe not speaking. Right? You understand, met some young Russian kids, I don’t know if they were spies spying on me, if they thought maybe I was a spy, but they spoke perfect English. We never talked about anything, and everything was just great, we got to the border and we’re gonna go out of Ukraine, and they declared anybody- and anyway Russian money, yeah I said- but my son has and band aid can full of coins that he’s picked up in Russia, you know currency, [unintelligible] uniform gets in he said “What’s this? Russian money.” and I said “Oh well it’s my Volkswagen camper bus.” and are you familiar with Volkswagen camper buses? Okay so there’s that fold down table and he say- he sits down and my son is sitting over here, and he says “Where is this money?” and says “You don’t have this one.” You don’t have this one, one thing they did do they blanked all my film totally, but other than that it was just you know it was just fool’s luck I guess, and I think of it now. How the hell did I get the nerve to do that? But fortune of God, it worked great, the experiences were great and I did it again in 1976, this time though we went up through Norway �Block, Kenneth and down around. One time I saw then, as soon as I got back- Well the one time- The first time I got back it turned out, where the deal happening was the Volkswagen bus, bringing folks inside the cars leaves right from Germany, by the way that’s where some of my relatives originally came from, and their destination is Toledo, Ohio $175 I think it was all three days, two times, brought it back within a week was able to sell it. Sell it for as much as I paid for it, you had to have it out of the country for six weeks or seven weeks I forget, so it was always there on the charter I said “First [unintelligible] five people” Oh, it was under $1000, and that included a nice stay in a hotel, a holiday in Amsterdam, but all it cost me was the price of the gas and we lived out of the campers, so you can go over there with very little money it costs more for one to go there for one little tour for a week then for us there for four or five weeks. I think it kept the kids off the streets during those dangerous teenage years, they always abbreviated it. We had a great experience, we were in Norway and we met the naval attache, the American naval attache, for Norway over the ambassador there, and we got there. It happened to be the day before the 4th of July, and the naval attache said “Stay with us!” and they had some teenage kids, it was great to see some American kids, and they say “Hey there’s a 4th of July picnic tomorrow, you wanna go?” and we weren’t gonna turn down the ambassador and all these people, have a great big American style picnic in the middle of Oslo, Norway, but it was time after time some great experiences like going to through Fez in Morocco and Marrakech and Nador which was the drunk capital of the world at the time, not for us we picked up a Moroccan boy gave us the tour of Venice, just the nicest nicest kid- young man, I should say young man. Really showed us stuff that you don’t normally get to see, but nothing that was ever any problem, never put a scratch on the car. I think I drove more than some 20-some thousand miles in Europe, just so lucky no accidents, but you gotta have a good guardian angel for that. Interviewer: “Sometimes. Alright, well the whole thing makes for an interesting and unusual story so thank you.” (1:16:10) Well I thought I didn’t have any war stories except there was so much unusual stuff in that it was a little bit different. I thought especially that I’ve never heard anything of an American prisoners of war in Japan, were not just in a camp that they were [overlapping chatter] �Block, Kenneth Interviewer: “That is in the history books but alright anyway well thank you very much for taking the time to share the story today.” � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BlockK2182V Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Block, Kenneth Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-02 Title A name given to the resource Block, Kenneth (Interview transcript and video), 2018 Description An account of the resource Kenneth Block was born in Detroit, Michigan, in 1932 where he graduated high school before attending Wayne State University. Studying geology and accounting, Block graduated with a degree in accounting before a friend referred him to Selfridge Air Force Base due to his interests in meteorology. Just before the outbreak of the Korean War in June of 1950, he enlisted into the Air Force Reserve unit stationed at Selfridge. Block had no formal Basic Training and soon went to work in the meteorology department of the Reserve unit. By late 1951, he decided to enter the Air Force Reserve Officer Training Course in the hopes of placing himself into a better position to pursue a military career or a higher education after his seemingly inevitable time in the active-duty service. Block was then sent to Enid Air Force Base for a brief course in multi-engine repair and maintenance. In July of 1952, he agreed to take a physical at Selfridge and, to his surprise, was qualified to undergo flight training in San Antonio, Texas. Firstly, he underwent twelve weeks of Air Force Basic Training in addition to other formal classroom training courses. Block was then allowed to select where he wanted to be assigned, after which he was stationed back at Selfridge with the Air Force Reserve Training Center, attached to the 10th Air Force Division, as a clerk typist. During his time on the base, the Air Force was recalling former Second World War fighter pilots and Block, himself, participated in a few flight crews, but never fully became a pilot. Block also spent some significant time in the hospital for illnesses he contracted in his throat as well as for a severe dental ailment that caused him to lose several teeth on his jaw. Eventually, he was discharged from the Air Force and immediately resumed his education at Wayne State University for a master’s degree in business. Afterwards, he decided to stop pursuing further education opportunities since his children were graduating high school and would be enrolling in college themselves. Reflecting upon his time in the Air Force, Block believed the service helped him reorganize his life. He was also grateful for the benefits of the GI Bill, believing he received far more from his service than he had put into it. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States—History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975—Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401. Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9a750f938b8a45242b67abc0c1a7b33f.pdf 1b09bd3d64ad5a79e37c264bb1964c8d PDF Text Text 1 Grand Valley State University Special Collections Kent County Oral History collections, RHC-23 Blodgett, John Interviewed on October 2, 1971 Edited and indexed by Don Bryant, 2010 – bryant@wellswooster.com Tape #27 (1:00:16) Biographical Information Mr. John Wood Blodgett, Jr. was born on 24 May 1901 in Grand Rapids, Michigan, the son of John Wood Blodgett and Minnie A. Cumnock. John died October, 1987 at the age of 86 years. John Wood Blodgett, Sr. was born 26 July 1860 in Hersey, Osceola County, Michigan, the son of Delos Abiel and Jane S. “Jennie” (Wood) Blodgett. John W. Blodgett, Sr. died on 21 November 1951. He was married to Minnie A. Cumnock on 16 January 1895 in Lowell, Massachusetts. She was the daughter of Alexander G. and Frances F. (Ross) Cumnock, born July 1862 in Massachusetts. Minnie died in 1931. ___________ Mr. Blodgett: Yes, Well, I was born on May twenty-fourth, nineteen one although now, that I have reached my, past my seventieth birthday. I don‟t recall that I ever knew whether I was born in the house on Cherry Street or whether I was born in the old UBA Hospital. But anyway my earliest recollections, of course deal with the house at what originally was known as three hundred and sixty-five Cherry Street. And then some time later, I don‟t recall the exact year that number was changed to four-0-one Cherry. I‟m in the same house you understand. That house is situated where the Stuyvesant Apartments is now at the corner of Madison Avenue and Cherry where State and Cherry run together. And the entrance apparently was always referred to as Cherry Street because the numbers were always Cherry and not State. Let‟s see well, most of my friends in those early days, lived on that block bounded by Cherry Street, Washington Street, Madison Avenue and College; and a great many of them have gone to their reward since then. One of my closest friends was Bill Rogers. I think his official name was Winfield and he was the son of Dr. John R. Rogers who at that time lived on Madison Avenue in the same house that Mrs. Dutcher the podiatrist has her shop now. And another of my closest friends and Bill died quite a number of years ago, I believe, of cancer. Another of my very closest friends was Stanley Barnhart who lived up the street on Cherry Street there and Stan passed away in nineteen hundred and nineteen. I think about late August or early September of nineteen nineteen, but anyway that‟s where my closest friends were. Also in that block was Theron Goodspeed and he‟s dead. Then across on the other side of Madison Avenue, about opposite the Roger‟s house was a fellow named Ed Moore, now I‟m not sure if at this juncture was name was spelled More or Moore. I just have forgotten. But he was never as close as I was to Bill Rogers and Stanley Barnhart. Dudley Cassard, who I believe is still alive last I heard which was a number of years �2 ago, he was living somewhere in the greater Los Angeles area. He was also quite a close friend but I‟d say Bill Rogers and Stan Barnhart were my closest friends; we did a lot of things together. A bunch of kids, I remember, we had a rabbit out in back of the Barnharts house and I guess it must have been a female rabbit, because, I remember she had a litter, if that‟s the correct term for a bunch of young rabbits, and then because she wasn‟t given enough water why she ate all her offspring or rather killed all her offspring and drank their blood and so forth. Interviewer: Oh. Mr. Blodgett: And then I remember along with Jerome Draper who lived on Washington Street, I don‟t know the address but I could, show you the house while we‟re down Washington Street. Why we all owned a hen and our dividends consisted of an egg every now and then. And about the only friend of those days were who was still living is Huston McBain, the retired chairman of the board of Marshall Field and Company, who used to live in those days at the Stratford Arms. Interviewer: Where‟s the Stratford Arms? Mr. Blodgett: The Stratford Arms is on the corner of Morris and Cherry and is still standing and is still called the Stratford Arms. And he lived there incidentally, he is probably the most illustrious of all the group I grew up with because I say he went right through the ranks of Marshall Field and Company and at some incredibly early age why he became chairman of the board and then retired as chairman of the board after serving, I don‟t know how many years. And since then he‟s, because very interested in Scotch things and he is now, written up in Scotch circles because although he is an American citizen, of course, he is the McBain of McBain. And anybody who knows Scotch history knows that that‟s the name of the leader of the clan. Interviewer: Oh. Mr. Blodgett: And so forth and so it‟s quite unusual for an American citizen to be a McBain of McBain. Interviewer: Did he, did he get his start in a department store work in Grand Rapids or did he go to…? Mr. Blodgett: No, he went, I believe to the University of Michigan and possibly some people who were in the University of Michigan, I suspect his class must have been about nineteen twenty-three in Michigan, but I‟m not sure of that. I‟m not sure whether he ever did any work here in Grand Rapids before moving to Chicago or not. I don‟t really know but I don‟t think so. But, Huston McBain can be, as I say is still alive or was last I knew, which was about a couple of months ago and lives over in Illinois. I mean in the greater Chicago area. I have his address downtown, I‟m not sure I have it with me. But anyway he is easily locatable. And… Interviewer: Did you all go to public school? �3 Mr. Blodgett: No, we had a teacher from New England, and later she became an old maid. She wasn‟t an old maid when she came with us. Her name was Lina Morton and up in the third floor of the house on Cherry Street, why we had a small school and I don‟t remember just how many people were in that school and, I think Elizabeth Rogers, Bill‟s sister was there, but Bill himself went to public school. And so I was taught by Miss Morton until I went away to Saint Mark‟s school at South Massachusetts in the fall of nineteen twenty-four. I‟m told that my family, for a couple of summers or maybe, two or three I‟m not sure, went up to Mackinac Island in the summertime but my earliest summer recollection s were down at York Harbor, Maine. And we stayed there until nineteen hundred and, summer of nineteen ten then we all went abroad, that is all. My father, mother, sister and myself to England, we sailed on a White-Star Liner called “the Adriatic”. Whether we came back on the Adriatic or not I don‟t recall. But I do remember we went over on her. And then, in the summer of nineteen eleven, nineteen twelve and nineteen thirteen we were down at Prides Crossing, Mississippi and then in the summer of nineteen fourteen, we all went abroad and of course as everyone knows that‟s the time when World War Onebroke out and at the exact day when mobilization occurred why I was staying with this Swiss maid of mother‟s who sort of looked after us. Her name was Rose Loamer, she was a protestant Swiss from a town of Neuchâtel and at least so I was told, and anyway I‟ve had some stomach trouble probably something I ate unquestionably, and so Rose Loamer and I were staying at this hotel at Avion, which is across in France. Well, Father, Mother and Sister had gone off in the Packard. We‟d taken a Packard touring car to Europe that summer. And anyway they‟d all gone off and so the morning of the mobilization occur why, Rose Loamer and I had a great deal of difficulty in getting anything to eat because not only was, were all the French waiters gone and so forth but of course Switzerland was right across the Lake Geneva and all the Swiss were there so about the only people that were left as hotel staff were Argentineans and other South Americans because everybody else naturally all of Europe was mobilized. And of course everybody knows Switzerland wasn‟t in the war but they don‟t think they weren‟t mobilized too. And so anyway Rose Loamer and I took the boat across to Lozan and then took the train to Lucerne and at Lucerne my Grandfather, Father and Grandmother Cumnock were there. That‟s my mother‟s family. And I believe an aunt of mine, we stayed there as I recall for several weeks. Of course Father, Mother and Sister joined us there a couple of days later and then at Lucerne and then later we all went down to Genoa and took a ship from Genoa to the United States. A ship called Principessa Mafalda. And that‟s a rather long and interesting story because my father had to charter this ship It normally, it was a ship, it was rather small by Atlantic ship standards even in those days because my recollection is it was only a ten thousand ton ship but it normally ran to South America but for some reason or other it was available in, in Genoa there. And so my father chartered it and we filled it up with lots of refugees who had congregated at Genoa, who had poured in from Switzerland, southern France, Austria and Italy and so forth. So anyway she had a pretty full load and she landed in New York. Interviewer: Were they American refugees or? �4 Mr. Blodgett: Oh yes, they were all Americans, but there were an awful lot of Americans stranded in Europe as I say at the outbreak of that war, just the way I suppose there were loads and loads of American stranded in Europe as when the Second World War broke out. Interviewer: Was traveling in Europe, did many people in Grand Rapids that were members of that were more well-to-do travel to Europe in those days? Mr. Blodgett: I would think so, but I naturally don‟t know exactly, but there must have been because… Well, I really don‟t know the answer to that question as to how many but of course as far as travel to Europe is concerned, why there were loads and loads of boats because I remember it wasn‟t till oh I guess just before World War Two that Cunard Line and White Star merged. The British government merged them and until then they were two separate lines. Of course, there weren‟t very many Italian ships going to New York at all I guess „til, I don‟t know, the thirties or something like that. Interviewer: I just wanted to correct something that you said; I just wondered about the date, you said you went off to Saint Mark‟s prep school in nineteen twenty-four. Mr. Blodgett: No, did I say nineteen twenty-four? No, no, nineteen fourteen. Interviewer: OK. Mr. Blodgett: Because after we got landed in New York why then I went up to stay with my grandparents in Lowell [Mass.] because there was, there were a couple of weeks so to kill before I went to Saint Mark‟s. And, incidentally it‟s rather interesting to note that one of my friends in Lowell there in those two weeks was White Vandenberg who later became I think a lieutenant general, maybe a full general in the Air Force and I believe Vandenberg Air Force base on the coast of California, north of Santa Barbara is named after him. But I‟m pretty sure he was either a lieutenant general or a full general before he died. Interviewer: OK. Mr. Blodgett: And incidentally he was related to Arthur Vandenberg here so although White Vandenberg, I think I‟m right in this but as a matter, I suppose of historical record that but I‟m pretty sure that I remember that being told much later that White Vandenberg, although he was a Lowell resident, he got his appointment to West Point from a Senator Arthur, the late Senator Arthur Vandenberg who I believe was his uncle. Interviewer: This school that was in the, on the third floor of your house, what kind of studies did you concentrate on? Mr. Blodgett: Everything but that you know from beginning to read and write, right up to getting ready for St. Mark‟s. Except that Miss Morton didn‟t, of course, teach me any French. And that I learned from Mrs. Charlotte Hughes who used to live on Fulton Street, part of the �5 property where the Reformed Church is now. A great many people probably still alive who vaguely remember Miss Charlotte Hughes because I think, she only died a comparatively few years ago. Interviewer: Why did your parents hire a private teacher for the house rather than send you to the public schools? Mr. Blodgett: That I don‟t know, that I don‟t know. I haven‟t any idea. Interviewer: Yes. Mr. Blodgett: Probably, Mother thought that a private teacher could do it better. That‟s my guess though I‟m not sure. And, yes, of course before going to St. Mark‟s I had to have some Latin and that was taught to me by the late Miss Jeanette Perry who lived on Fulton Street there. And I believe her father at one time was a mayor of Grand Rapids. But she was well known, Miss Perry was later on, in Vassar circles; but she taught me my Latin. Interviewer: How did your family happen to get started in Michigan? Where were they originally located? Mr. Blodgett: Well, that‟s all in those books that I pointed out there along with where my grandfather Delos Blodgett was born in New York State and where he migrated and when he went to Michigan and so forth and so that‟s in all those books. And about the only thing that I can add to those books is that my father always told me that to the best of his knowledge and belief he was the first white child born in Osceola County In other words, Michigan was pretty wild when, he was born in eighteen sixty way up that far north. Interviewer: Well, then lumber is probably is what lured them away from New York State, the lumber business. Mr. Blodgett: No, no it‟s all written up in my grandfather‟s thing there and I‟d much prefer to have you quote that than rather quote me on that subject. Interviewer: OK. Mr. Blodgett: On that, it‟s a matter of historical record because I studied it in college that the stock of which my grandfather was a member is known in American history as the New York, New England stock. I think it‟s called New York, New England rather than the other way around. But anyway, all the people of New, or not all the people naturally, but a great stream of migrants went west from the New England states and poured into the west and a great many of them poured through upper New York state. As a matter of fact, probably one of the most illustrious of that group was Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism and I believe Brigham Young was also of that same western moving stock. And it was quite a well known historical movement. Interviewer: How did an early lumberman in Michigan get concessions to cut timber? �6 Mr. Blodgett: That I don‟t know. That I don‟t know. Interviewer: Ok. Mr. Blodgett: You see, by the time I came along and got actively interested in the business and well, in nineteen twenty-four after I got out of Harvard why, I wasn‟t really quite active in the business because I was very busy learning to keep books and so forth. I went to DavenportMcLachlan Institute as I think it was then called down on that now vacant lot there that is on Pearl Street about opposite, the Midtown Theatre which used to in my days be called the Powers Theatre. And so learning bookkeeping you might say I really didn‟t get too involved in lumber business until about a year later, because I was just having to learn how to keep books and so forth. I learned to set up my own set of books; of course it was simple in those days and everything like that. Interviewer: When they used to timber here in Michigan and bring the logs down the river was there much theft? Mr. Blodgett: I wouldn‟t know. I wouldn‟t know. I started to explain that by the time I came along of course the family hadn‟t had any timber interests in Michigan for I don‟t know how many years, maybe it was twenty, maybe it was thirty and so forth I mean that‟s a matter of back family history which I don‟t really know about. I mean in other words if somebody asked me if or if you asked me when the last stick of timber cut in Michigan when the Blodgett family were interested in I wouldn‟t be able to answer that at all. My guess is it was somewhere between about eighteen ninety-five and nineteen hundred and five but that‟s just a guess, I wouldn‟t know. Interviewer: Where did, where did your family expand their operations to after they went to Michigan. Mr. Blodgett: They expanded them in two directions down south and then on the Pacific Coast. Interviewer: Are you still involved in the lumber business? Mr. Blodgett: I call myself retired or semi-retired, because thank God I don‟t have to run any lumber companies these days, but I‟m still interested in financially in two companies. One is the Michigan California Lumber Company in El Dorado County, California. That‟s a pine company primarily although there‟s so much white fir up in that country that I think usually the largest single species cut is white fir. And the other is the predecessor. well the other let‟s say is the Arcata Redwood Company which is now the lumbering branch of Arcata National Company which is listed on the big board. And the lumber interests of that company go way back to a tract of timber which was owned I believe somewhere back in the nineteen hundred and five to nineteen hundred and ten era. Again, of course I was a small boy and knew nothing about this. But it was called Hill Davis Company Limited. And the books in the early days were kept in �7 Saginaw, Michigan. The Limited, by the way that‟s used by a great many companies, is that Michigan in those days and until I was thirty five or forty had a law that I‟m told that was quite unique in that you could form things that were called Limited Partnership Associations I think that‟s the correct term. And you‟ll have to consult a lawyer as to what those could do they as I understand it enjoyed most of the advantages of a corporation and most of the advantages of a partnership but without the disadvantages of either and so that‟s why a number of these concerns that we were with were called, had the Limited after it, in other words a great many people looked at, look, used to look at the Limited after these concerns and they‟d say, well this must be a Canadian concern because of course they used that Limited up in, a great deal there. But no, there was the Arcata National that grew out of a tract of timber which was I say formed a long time ago presumably somewhere in around nineteen and five to nineteen ten, called Hill Davis Company Limited and their books were kept as I recall it from the story in Saginaw and then they were, the books were later brought over here and kept in our office. And let‟s see, well I vaguely remember when my father had his office in the Michigan Trust building but, he moved into the present building in which I believe was built and occupied by nineteen sixteen. Of course, that present building as you know on Monroe Avenue there has had three different names. Let‟s see I think it was originally the Grand Rapids Saving Bank Building, then the Grand Rapids Savings Bank, I believe, folded up in the bank holiday and bank depression in thirty-two or thirty-three, and then it became the People‟s National Bank and so then the building became the People‟s National Bank Building. And then when the People‟s National Bank was merged into the Old Kent. Why, since there wasn‟t any more People‟s National Bank, why they just called it the People‟s Building. I had to narrate this story to quite a few people because every now and then in the last few years when I‟ve started new charge accounts, somebody somewhere why people says, “People‟s Building, how did it get that name?” So I‟d have to explain the story to them. It‟s rather amusing. Well, let‟s cut this off a minute, let me have a pipe. Interviewer: Ok, I‟m about ready to exchange tapes, anyway. Mr. Blodgett: Yes Interviewer: You were mentioning that when you were young you were quite interested in fire engines. Could you tell me a little about what the fire engines were like? Mr. Blodgett: Well, the fire engines when I first knew them, of course, were all horse drawn, I don‟t know when the, don‟t remember when the first motorized one came along. But the point is that the Number One Fire House, which of course is where the present Number One is, down there on LaGrave. When they used to come going up Cherry Street why, because they were horse drawn and because the fire engines naturally all didn‟t proceed with the same speed. Why, we small boys would follow them up Cherry Street and if the fire was very near why we‟d stand around and watch it. But, as I remember it, the little chemical wagon, as they used to call it in those days, just had a small tank of chemicals. That was the lightest and so that would usually be first and then would probably come a hose cart with lots of hoses. Then would come the hook �8 and ladder and then the steamer which I remembered was only drawn by three horses. It was considerably slower so if you started up Cherry Street and let‟s say the fire was two or three blocks up Cherry Street or something, why by the time the steamer came along you‟d usually you‟ve been able to run at least a couple of blocks and maybe three up Cherry Street. Follow the fire and so forth. No, as I say I don‟t remember exactly when they changed over from horse drawn to engines. But yes, that was a usual sport in those days. Interviewer: I was just noticing as, we‟re sitting here in this den that this beautiful woodwork. When, when was this home built? Mr. Blodgett: Well, this home was completed and we moved in very early January of nineteen twenty-eight. And I should explain that, after the fall of nineteen twelve, no about August of nineteen thirteen why the house on Cherry Street burned out. I think it‟s more correct to say out than burned down because there were several rooms in it, after the fire, that were perfectly livable in as far as if you didn‟t mind the smoky smell. I mean they weren‟t damaged that much. But anyway, the house was burned out pretty well and so Father and Mother decided not to rebuild and so, we were at Pride‟s Crossing [Massachusetts] at the time the fire occurred and Miss Morton, the teacher and a couple of maids, I believe were in the house. They had no trouble getting out, of course. And then we moved temporarily to the Philo Fuller house on Lafayette Street for a little while. And then we were able to move into my grandfather‟s old place, on the corner of Prospect and Fulton Street. The old D.A. Blodgett house, as I always knew it. And then we lived there until this house here on Plymouth Road was completed and we moved in and, as I say in very early January of nineteen twenty-eight. Interviewer: Who did the woodwork? Mr. Blodgett: This room? Gosh, I can‟t remember, we‟ve got a book in the other room somewhere, all about, quite a number of features of this house. But twenty five years ago, I could have told you a lot more about the house and all that than I can now because frankly I‟ve forgotten a lot of it. The house was designed by Stewart Walker. I think his name was spelled S-T-E-W-A-R-T. Stewart Walker of Walker & Gillette in New York. And this house I believe is one of the better examples of what you might call Modern Georgian architecture in America. Stewart Walker was a great perfectionist and so was my mother and so that‟s the reason for this kind of house. Interviewer: If you don‟t mind me asking, how much would a house like this have cost in nineteen twenty-eight to build? Mr. Blodgett: I haven‟t any idea. I was not a small boy in those days, as a matter of fact I was a budding young businessman, but I never inquired and so I don‟t know to this day, how much this house cost. [I] haven‟t any idea. Interviewer: It‟s really a beautiful place. �9 Mr. Blodgett: Yes. Interviewer: Why in our conversation here this morning you mentioned that summers you spent mostly in the east, was that because you had family out there? Mr. Blodgett: Yes, I suppose that was it and although as I remember, we didn‟t see too much of my grandparents in Lowell, Massachusetts. They usually stayed in Lowell all the year around. Although some summers they would rent a house for a short time but for some reason or another, my mother wanted to go east and so that‟s at least I guess that‟s the reason why we went first to York Harbor and we went to after that to Pride‟s Crossing. Interviewer: Now, with a business such as yours did from what I gather, is somewhat widely dispersed, why have you kept your base of operations here in Grand Rapids? Mr. Blodgett: Well, that‟s just because Grand Rapids has always been home and so forth. But, over the course of the years, between say nineteen thirty-five and nineteen sixty-three or so why I did spend a great deal of time out on the Pacific Coast. I‟ve just recently had to try to find out when my father established his office in Portland, Oregon, and so I‟m not sure of that exact date, I think it was around nineteen hundred and five or nineteen hundred and seven. And the office just consisted of one man was named Peter Brumby, a Canadian and Pete shared this, there was not very much there to do, you might say in one sense of the word. And so Pete Brumby didn‟t even have an office by himself as I remembered in the early days, he shared it with some other fellow. Interviewer: When did your grandfather die? Mr. Blodgett: Well, that again the exact date I think is in the book. I think that was nineteen hundred and seven. But again, that‟s in one of these volumes there. Interviewer: Yes, that‟s when you and your friends had your little mock funeral. Mr. Blodgett: Yes, that I can remember, that‟s one of my earliest recollections that we went to the funeral service at my grandfather‟s house on Fulton Street there and I remember that when I was told I could have my last look at my grandfather Blodgett, why there was a footing for the thing that hold the casket. Of course, I, would being, a very clumsy boy, stumble over that and so forth, much to everybody‟s consternation. But, I didn‟t go out to the cemetery. Father didn‟t think that was advisable and so I remember that somehow or other, Bill Rogers and Stan Barnhart and somebody other, else or maybe a couple of others conceived the idea we ought to have our own funeral and so we went in to the Goodspeeds, I guess, no, you‟d hardly I guess still you‟d call it in those days, carriage house attic and we get a couple of boards, a couple long boards and we nailed an ordinary bushel basket, of which there used to be a great many in those days, ‟cause, that‟s what you put leaves in the Autumn and so we nailed that in there and the rest of us carried Theron Goodspeed around the block and some enterprising mother saw us and �10 knowing that my grandfather‟s funeral had taken place just a little while earlier that afternoon, suspected what was up so they promptly whoever it was promptly called a few other parents and our mock funeral came to an early termination. I don‟t remember that I was punished particularly for that thing probably because we were so darn young. Interviewer: What, how old were you when you went away to school to St. Mark‟s? Mr. Blodgett: Well, let‟s see I was born in May of nineteen hundred and one and I entered in the fall of nineteen fourteen; let‟s see I‟d been thirteen. Interviewer: From that time until you came back to Grand Rapids, after you‟d completed your studies at Harvard did you spend very much time here? Mr. Blodgett: No, very, very little, very little. Interviewer: Did you come back in the summer? Mr. Blodgett: No, we were elsewhere in the summer so I spent very little time in Grand Rapids between nineteen fourteen and fall of nineteen hundred and twenty-four. Interviewer: Did you ever, when you did come home, did you ever attend any parties here? Mr. Blodgett: Yes, yes but I can‟t remember who gave „em or where they were or anything like that much. I remember we were almost always in New York for what you might call Christmas vacation because my mother rented a house in New York and lived there while my sister went to Miss Spencer‟s school in New York. And then my sister came out in New York and so forth and then after that while I was in college we always spent all our Christmases in New York City because so many relatives were either there or in the vicinity Interviewer: I see. Mr. Blodgett: And my sister, after she and Morris Hadley were married, why they lived in Boston or in Cambridge. I should say for a couple of years, because Morris still had two more years to go in Harvard Law School. The war interrupted his education as it did a great many other people. And then, she, my brother-in-law and sister moved to New York because immediately after graduation from Harvard Law School, he went into a firm in New York so he was there. And my Aunt Mary and Uncle Arthur Cumnock always lived in New York and then by that time my mother‟s sister, my Aunt Grace was married and she was living in, she and her husband were living in New York. So actually we had more relatives in New York City then we had in any other place so I think that‟s one reason why we were always there. So I spent many, many, well I suppose that‟s a get out and visit, you can‟t call it a Christmas vacation by, certainly during, while I was in boarding school and while I was in boarding school and while I was in college and that and so forth. Christmas vacations were always spent there and then after I got into business, why since the family were there, and so forth, they wanted me to naturally �11 be there rather than sit here in Grand Rapids by myself and work. I was usually, well I can‟t remember just what year was the last year that I spent a Christmas in New York. I‟d say it must have been as late as nineteen thirty-four probably. Interviewer: That‟s why it intrigues me, why you still maintain your home in Grand Rapids, after having spent so much of your life elsewhere. Mr. Blodgett: Well, I never went down South but twice to the Mobile office. And unfortunately I can‟t give you the exact years I would say this is just a guess though. I first went down in about nineteen twenty-six or twenty-seven and then again about nineteen thirty, I would say. Both times I spent about two or three weeks down there. Incidentally, it is an interesting thing to record for posterity that Blodgett, Mississippi was named after, I suppose, my father rather than my grandfather. I can‟t remember which railroad that‟s on now and I don‟t think it‟s on any Mississippi maps anymore. There was a saw mill there and they were cutting Blodgett timber. But Blodgett, Oregon is not named after any member of my family, contrary to what a great many people think. Interviewer: Was your family, always, members of Fountain Street Church? Mr. Blodgett: No, no we were Park Church people, although my father was not a very devout churchgoer. As a matter of fact, he usually went horse-back riding on Sunday mornings. Interviewer: Do you, do you remember Doctor Wishart? Mr. Blodgett: Oh, very well, very well indeed. Yes. Interviewer: What kind of man was he? Mr. Blodgett: Oh, he was a great man, great man and a wonderful preacher. If you want me to go into that for the benefit if posterity I‟d be delighted to but because I think it‟s rather interesting. Now the year of course would be the year when Doctor Wishart came here first. And that‟s a matter of historical record, down at the Fountain Street Church. I don‟t remember, now just what year it was, but anyway the former pastor of the Fountain Street Church had either retired or died, again that‟s a matter of historical record and so the church had to look for a new pastor. And according to the story I‟ve been told, and which I believe to be quite reliable, they scouted around at the east and they reported that there were two very promising young men. And so promising they didn‟t think the church would make any mistake hiring either one of them. But of course the church naturally could only have one pastor in those days because it wasn‟t until many years after that we even had an assistant pastor. And so the church finally chose Alfred Wesley Wishart. And a matter of historical record I think down at the church where he was preaching before he went to Fountain Street. But, the other man, the man that they thought was very, very good, but they didn‟t quite like him as well as Wishart, was Harry Emerson Fosdick. �12 Interviewer: That‟s interesting. Mr. Blodgett: Now, as I say I‟ve been told that by several people and who were in a position to know and I‟m pretty sure that the old records will bear that out. It seems to me now, let‟s see one of the, one woman who was a great deal older that I was still alive oh way, way until my forties, and I was trying to remember whether that was a Miss Ball or not. I don‟t think that was the name though. But, she was one of the ones that told me this story about picking Doctor Wishart. Interviewer: Are there any Blodgett sons? Do you have any sons coming along that…? Mr. Blodgett: No, I have no sons. I have three daughters by my second marriage. Interviewer: So then they…? Mr. Blodgett: But they are all living in the east, if you can call New Orleans east. My youngest daughter and her husband, he was studying foe a PhD at Harvard in medieval history and they lived at Chatham, Mass. But anyway, he decided to pursue his graduate studies at Tulane and they‟re just this past August why they moved from Chatham down to New Orleans. But until then I had two daughters both married in Massachusetts and one daughter married and living in Washington, D.C. Interviewer: Is the city how, how is Grand Rapids changed? What‟s the most dramatic change in Grand Rapids that you can think of from the time when you were a boy to the…? Mr. Blodgett: Well, I suppose the most dramatic thing is the automobile. I can still remember as a small boy, going down, we had some sort of carriage that had three seats on it you know, I mean three parallel seats. Of course, the coachman a man named Gilbert was in the front one and then I don‟t know where the rest… But anyway we used to load that up every Memorial Day and we would, well the they didn‟t use the term park in those days, cause that‟s an automobile term, but anyway would stop somewhere right around Veterans Park there and we would watch the Veterans march past and of course in the very early days of my recollection why a few of the Civil War Veterans still walked, although most of them rode. But of course the Spanish War Veterans were probably still in their late twenties or early thirties and so they always marched, of course. And so, I‟d say that the greatest single change that I can think of in Grand Rapids although of course it came gradually, was the advent of the automobile. Interviewer: What about servants, people that help out in houses; how has that changed? Mr. Blodgett: Oh that, that‟s changed a very great deal and since the early days. Interviewer: Did you have, did your mother and father have help in the house? Mr. Blodgett: Oh yes, oh yes. Usually a cook and a couple of maids and so forth. And then of course we had the coachman and a man named Gilbert, I‟ve forgotten what his first name was. �13 Gilbert was the last name, I‟m pretty sure. And the later on of course we had a chauffeur. My mother never did learn to drive a car, which was the case with a great many women in those days. Interviewer: Did, did that help live in the house or did they live outside the house? Mr. Blodgett: No, they lived in the house. Interviewer: How, how is the, how it has changed, in terms of the help from then until now? Mr. Blodgett: Well, they, the great change of course has been, it‟s very much more difficult to get anyone. Interviewer: Why is that, do you think? Mr. Blodgett: Oh, gosh I don‟t know. I think maybe my wife would be able to better answer that question. I think it‟s just that people don‟t like what‟s called domestic service anymore and it‟s very hard to get them. That is rather amazing when you consider the unemployment rolls because the wages of course are very good naturally. The wages have gone up a great deal. But of course, speaking of that and changing the subject rather abruptly, I remember when my father paid Miss Welch the secretary there who was with us so many years. I remember when he raised her to two hundred dollars a month. When that was almost an unheard of salary and I don‟t know how much you‟d have to get some economist to do a study the figures to tell you what the buying power of two hundred dollars a month was. I don‟t remember what year it was that father raised Miss Welch to two hundred dollars a month but as I say, the buying power of course in those days, I don‟t know whether it‟d be equivalent to seven hundred dollars a month or eight hundred dollars a month. But that was incredible. Well as a matter of fact, this is a rather interesting point. In the summer of nineteen.., let‟s see, wait a minute, my sister married in the summer of nineteen and nineteen, nineteen twenty we were abroad or I mean we were out west , the whole family. The summer of nineteen twenty when I worked, started my lumbering career really by working in the survey party of the Michigan-California Lumber Company. And a common laborer was paid forty cents an hour and my salary was thirty cents or compensation, wasn‟t a salary was thirty seven and a half cents an hour. That was an eight hour day of course. And, on the other hand, we had to pay I think thirty five cents a meal. Of course we worked six days a week and if you‟ll do a little sharp pencil work I think you‟ll discover that naturally I had you pay for your meals at the thirty five cents a meal, a rate which was, I believe that‟s a dollar and five cents a day. You had to pay for Sunday too. But, anyway, thirty seven and a half cents an hour, I managed to save quite lot of money. Because there wasn‟t very much, that you could spend it on. Of course you had to buy your own overalls and your own shoes those two things that wore out faster than anything. And then, I‟ve always had a sweet tooth and since I was expending a great deal of energy in those days why, I used to eat quite a lot of Ghirardelli Eagle Brand Chocolate made in San Francisco in one pound bars and so forth. The reason for expending energy was that you worked an eight hour day but you walked to and from work and �14 depending on where the job was out in the woods. That was either, I‟d say the nearest we ever worked to the sawmill where I lived was about two and a half miles and usually it was more than that and I recall it was not for more than four miles away. So you can see you‟d have to walk eight miles a day or call it an average of six miles a day to and from work. And then you‟d put in eight hour day on your feet. Of course which it‟s all footwork in the survey party. Footwork and handwork and so forth, I mean you don‟t sit down so you would use up a quite bit of energy. Interviewer: Well, I think we‟ve covered about everything. Mr. Blodgett: OK, fine. INDEX Fuller, Philo · 9 A Arcata National Company · 7 Arcata Redwood Company · 7 G Goodspeed, Theron · 1, 10 Grand Rapids Saving Bank · 8 B Barnhart, Stanley · 1, 2 Blodgett, Delos A. · 1, 5 Blodgett, John Wood · 1 Brumby, Peter · 10 C Cassard, Dudley · 2 Cumnock family · 3 Cumnock, Alexander G. · 1 Cumnock, Arthur · 11 Cumnock, Minnie A. · 1 H Hadley, Morris · 11 Hill Davis Company Limited · 7 Hughes, Mrs. Charlotte · 5 L Loamer, Rose · 3 M Davenport-McLachlan Institute · 6 Draper, Jerome · 2 Dutcher, Mrs. · 1 McBain, Huston · 2, 3 Michigan-California Lumber Company · 7, 14 Midtown Theatre · 6 Moore, Ed · 2 Morton, Lina · 3 Morton, Miss · 3, 9 F P Fosdick, Harry Emerson · 12 Fountain Street Church · 12 Park Congregational Church · 12 People‟s National Bank · 8 Perry, Miss Jeanette · 5 D �15 Powers Theatre · 6 V R Vandenberg, Arthur · 5 Vandenberg, White · 4, 5 Rogers, Bill · 1, 2, 10 Rogers, Dr. John R. · 1 Rogers, Elizabeth · 3 Ross, Frances F. · 1 W S Smith, Joseph · 6 Walker & Gillette · 9 Walker, Stewart · 9 Welch, Miss · 14 White Vandenberg · 5 Wishart, Alfred Wesley · 12 Wishart, Dr. · 12, 13 Wood, Jane S. “Jennie” · 1 World War One · 3 World War Two · 4 � https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bfded6847212bd876fd276d7daef113f.mp3 cc5f0509e5ed12c10d1ca1453a5fc599 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Rapids Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Heritage Hill (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Local histories Memoirs Michigan--History Oral histories (document genre) Description An account of the resource Taped and transcribed interviews conducted in the early 1970s primarily of the children and grandchildren of many of the founders of Grand Rapids, Michigan; many of whom were residents of the Heritage Hill neighborhood. Interviews were collected to develop a significant collection of oral resources that would supplement other primary and secondary local history materials. Initially funded as a private project, Grand Valley State College (now University) assumed responsibility for continuing the project until 1977. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Various Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/452">Grand Rapids oral history collection (RHC-23)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf; audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text; Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-23 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1971 - 1977 Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-23_27Blodgett Title A name given to the resource Blodgett, John W. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Blodgett, John W. Description An account of the resource John W. (Jack) Blodgett was born on May 24, 1901 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. In addition to continuing the lumbering business of his father, he was a banker. John married Minnie Cumnock in 1895. Apart from the Blodgett Memorial Hospital in East Grand Rapids, they helped found the Clinic for Infant Feeding, the Association for the Blind, the Grand Rapids Child Guidance Clinic, and the D. A Blodgett Home for Children. Blodgett died on October 27, 1987. Subject The topic of the resource Michigan--History Local histories Memoirs Oral histories (document genre) Grand Rapids (Mich.) Personal narratives Heritage Hill (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Grand Valley State University Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf audio/mp3 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Grand Rapids oral history collection (RHC-23) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1971 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives