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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
World War II
Jack Walbridge
Length: 47:55
(00:30) Background Information






Jack graduated from Caledonia high school in 1942; he had played football and was a
musician
He then went to Grand Rapids Community College, taking liberal arts classes so that he
could one day be a school band instructor
Jack also joined the Army Specialized Training Program
His father had been in WWI and had been awarded a Purple Heart
Jack was called into service for the Army in May of 1943

(1:30) Basic Training
 Jack went through basic training at Fort Riley, Kansas and it was not at all what he had
expected
 He really envied his father and wanted to be sure that he would also see a lot of combat
 Jack volunteered to be in the paratrooper program and 1 week later was sent to Fort
Benning in Georgia
 It was in the middle of Summer and it was very hot
 It was difficult training in the hot weather and much more rough than in Fort Riley
 Many men were passing out from the heat while they were running and the instructors
would just yell and kick at them
(5:30) Overseas
 Jack was sent to Fort Bragg in Alabama [North Carolina] and became part of the 13th
Airborne Division
 They spent time practicing in the jump field and bivouacking
 He was then re-assigned to the 551st Parachute Battalion
 They left in a huge convoy full of Navy transports, escorts, blimps, destroyers, and an
aircraft carrier
 They landed in Africa, but Jack had though they were going to Italy
 They arrived in the Straights of Gibraltar at night and were immediately attacked by the
Germans
 There was a huge explosion on Jack’s ship and his leg was hurt
 They disembarked in Oran and he was sent to a hospital for 10 days
 Jack then boarded a British transport ship to another hospital in Sicily

�


When he was feeling better he went through airborne school and took radio classes in
Rome
He was then sent to Northern Italy until the invasion in France

(9:45) France
 Jack was transferred on a ship to work with the 517th Regimental Combat Team
 He was put on an outpost on his first night for guard duty in the French Alps
 He said it got very spooky there at night because there were so many clouds that you
could not see a thing
 There were Germans patrolling every night and one night he heard something in the
brush, so he pulled the pin from a grenade and was about to throw it when he realized it
was only a rabbit
 Jack could not just throw the grenade because then his position would be revealed
 It was very difficult getting the pin back in and took him about an hour
 It later began getting very cold in the Alps in the Fall and they were replaced with the
10th Mountain Unit
(15:40) Winter Months
 They left the Alps and headed North about 50 miles to a small town
 They were all freezing with bleeding feet
 They stayed in an old French barracks with only straw mattresses
 While there they did not do much, just repetitive training and playing cards
 Soon the Germans made a breakthrough in Northern France and they had to leave to go
further North
 Jack really liked all the French people and thought they were all very nice
 They were right in the midst of heavy combat and everything was all very confusing
 The Germans were very good soldiers, well supplied, with better and newer equipment
and better food
 The Americans did not have the proper Winter attire and were always freezing, sleeping
in fox holes at night
 It was safer to sleep in the woods because buildings were always being shelled
 The men finally received new, warmer boots and thicker camouflage coats
(21:45) Southern Alps
 Jack worked as a scout and helped direct artillery once they had moved South
 They were very short on ammunition and using artillery shells from WWI
 The Germans always were bringing in new supplies, they had many ready ambulances
and there were tons of mines surrounding their defensive positions
 Germans were very good with artillery and catching any small movements in the woods

�


The Americans were always moving along so quickly that their supply chain could not
keep up with them
Also the Americans were often short on food and stole food off dead Germans, who had
much better food; fresh bread and butter and sardines

(32:15) Northern France
 They moved into Three Points [Trois Ponts] and were able to get the high ground and
Germans were waiting at the bottom of the hill
 The men dug fox holes for protection, but later over 57% of their team was killed or
wounded
 They needed replacements after the Battle of the Bulge and moved into Soissons to refit
 They then went North and found more casualties, with abandoned American equipment
all over the place
 There were just truckloads carrying dead bodies away to be buried
 Jack was sent out scouting again and located his old 551st Battalion, but it had been
ambushed and the majority of them were dead
 There was no place to walk because the area was filled with bodies, mines, and random
junk
(41:55) End of Service
 Jack was able to go to Paris on R &amp; R and he loved it and all the people there
 He stayed there longer than he was supposed to and got demoted from sergeant to PFC
 He later trained in Northern France with gliders and took communications classes
 They were jumping in C-46s and C-47s; the Germans, British, and Russians had quit air
assaults because they had lost too many men in their attempts
 After the war Jack took 2 weeks and then began working for his father’s meat market

�</text>
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                    <text>Sponsored by interfraterni.ty Counci.1

~

~

www.walkamileinhershoes.org

Walk a Mile in Her Shoes®
Thursday September 29th at 6:00 pm
Kirkhof Cente~ Grand River Room
Keynote and march to follovV

W hy Walk a Mile?
Walk a JV1ile in Her Shoes is an internationa lly-held march to
increase understanding about rape and ot her forms of sexual
violence. Specifical ly, men are invited to wear high heels and
then actua lly "walk a mile in her shoes." This event is not only
for men, nor must eve ryone wear high heels . We invite all
community members to participate in this event.
1

Why Wear Women s High Heels?
High heel shoes can symboli:ze the oppression that women face
when they are victims of sexual violence. When men wear high
hee ls, they can experience for a while the limits; the
uncomfortable and constraining gender norms that society
places on women . Organi:zers hope that men "step up" and
cha llenge attitudes that lead to rape and sexual violence.

Proceeds:
A

$5 donation is requested . Proceeds after expenses will be

donated to GVSU 's RAD (Rape Aggression Defense) Program ,
which is designed to teach both self-defense and larger issues
around gender sociali:zation and sexual violence. Participate to
show yo ur support to all survivors that continue to endure
through their own walk

of

life. Be a port of education .

Registration : You con register online at www.gvsuwam .eventbrite.com
Co-Sponsor: GVSU Women's Center

AGRANDVALLEY
w

Sr.ATE UNlvERSITY.

�</text>
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                    <text>WALK IN UNITY
for
Michigan's most VULNERABLE
and
'RALLY

at the State Capitol

FEBRUARY 15, 1991
To show concern over budget cuts and their
effect on the Indian people, and to show support
for all of Michigan's vulnerable citizens.
Cuts proposed would:
1. Lower ADC and SSI subsistence.
2. Reduce Medical Services to the poor.
3. Lay-off of State Employees will seriously hamper the
States ability to serve Michigan's citizens.
4. Lay-off Indian people in State positions that advocate for
Indian communities which effectively cuts out Indian Programs.
5. Severely curt~il or eliminate GA Program.
6. Reduce services for Senior Citizens.
7. Reduce services for Children.
8. Numerous other areas would be cut or eliminated.

Support Alternative Plans
Indian people are asked to gather at the Lansing Indian Center,
814 W. Saginaw, Lansing. Traditional dress is encouraged.
Prayer will be offered at noon and walk to the Capitol will begin
immediately thereafter.
Other community organizations and individuals are being invited to
join us at the Capitol at 1 :00 p.m.
Any questions call 517-487-5409.

�</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Al Walker
(1:41:54)
(00:30) Background Information
•
•
•
•
•

Al was born in Pontiac, Michigan on August 17, 1949
His father worked for GM and his mother did assembly for Pontiac
He remembered business slowing down in the 60s as many moved out of town to
Waterford Township
He had worked at an attendant nurse in a state hospital after high school
Al then became a cadet in the police department

(3:35) Drafted in 1966 [67?]
•
•
•

There was much social unrest and protests going on in the town
After one round of riots, many young African-American men, including Al, were drafted
Al had his induction physical and then went to Fort Wayne in Detroit, Michigan

(7:55) Fort Knox in Kentucky
•
•
•
•
•
•

This area was pretty laid back, with many men in civilian clothes and drinking beer
There was not yet any organized training, but they were sent to a different part of the fort
and it was much different
Al’s previous police experience did not help him with the training
He felt like he was surrounded by many people that did not want to be there
There were some that were from the National Guard that were able to go home after
training
There was much physical training, working with weapons, marching, and guard duty at
night

(12:25) MOS: Armored Reconnaissance
•
•
•
•
•

Al became specialized in armored reconnaissance
They traveled to New Jersey, Washington, and then to Alaska
They left the US for Japan, via Guam, and then to Vietnam on civilian aircraft
Vietnam was very hot and there were many different people walking around with
weapons
At night there were many sirens, rocket and mortar attacks

(23:00) Reconnaissance
•

Al went on many missions at night, becoming a “tunnel rat”

�•
•
•

They would find the enemy in tunnels and even some Chinese people, which he had not
expected
There were many “booby traps” in the jungle to watch out for
The Vietnamese set up many traps and mines at night and the Americans had to adapt to
doing much of their work at night

(29:40) Additional Tunnel Training
•
•
•
•
•

There was a big class sitting in bleachers
They were brought into actual tunnels and told that they often contained snakes and
scorpions
There was an area near Saigon that was full of many tunnels that made up a huge network
There were even tunnels directly under their base
The tunnels were used to transport troops and supplies, to instigate attacks, for living
quarters, and for hospitals

(40:20) The Civilian Population
•
•

There were many Montagnards in the highlands people who not Vietnamese and who did
not get along with them
They were very primitive and got along better with the French and the Americans

(43:40) Snipers
•
•
•

Sometimes snipers would arrive on helicopters
They never could tell the men their missions, but they were suspected of coming to
assassinate important village leaders
Al and other men often had to assist these snipers

(48:50) Racism
•
•
•

Al felt that most people got along and worked together in the field, but separated and
went their own ways once in the rear
Many white men grouped together and the same with black men
Some areas were still segregated, such as the showers and bathrooms

(53:50) R &amp; R
•
•
•

For entertainment, some areas contained make-shift bars
Others would travel to Saigon, Bangkok, or Hawaii; Al went to Hawaii
Yet once in Hawaii, some men would just take another plane back to the US and become
AWOL

�(57:10) Reasons for the War
•
•
•
•
•
•
•

The men were not exactly clear as to the reason for the war and what their objectives
were
Al often questioned why he was there
He did not like fighting , but would do whatever it took to just get back home
He is still trying to learn the purpose of the war and dealing with why he had to fight
The men were told that they were liberating the people from communism and helping to
spread democracy
Al was in Vietnam from September of 1969 to September of 1970
The time helped him to build character and a strong work ethic, helping him look more
towards the future

(1:06:00) After the Service
•
•
•
•
•
•

Al began working as an officer in the Police Academy
He now wishes he would have spent some time relaxing and took a break from working
During the war, it was really hard to be proud of being in the military
Al was harassed in the US when he wore his uniform and preferred to wear his civilian
clothes
He feels that soldiers today get much more respect because of the problems that occurred
during Vietnam
The Army did not do much to help people re-adapt to civilian life

(1:13:30) Pontiac Police Force 1973-1990
•
•
•
•
•

Al had to first earn his associates degree from Oakland University
Only about 10% of the officers were black
He was working patrol, on major crimes such as suicide and homicide, and then became a
detective
Al retired early in 1990 after two heart attacks
He became restless and began some electrical work for a while, and then finally retired
for good

�</text>
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&#13;
Throughout his photography career, he pursued both freelance commercial work as well as artistic work. His art photography is characterized by its classic black-and-white format, and features people, places and objects shot great attention and sensitivity. Gilbert's works are held in the permanent collections of the Art Institute of Chicago, the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, The Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, and the Grand Valley State University Art Galleries, as well as in numerous private and institutional collections.&#13;
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&#13;
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Veteran: William Wall
Interviewer: James Smither
Transcribed by Rebecca Doran
Interview length: 50:00
[0:00]
James Smither: We’re talking today with William Wall of Bridgman, Michigan. The
interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History
Project. Start us off with some background on yourself. And to begin with, where and
when were you born?
William Wall: 2/11/24 in Hope, Michigan.
JS: Now what part of Michigan is that in?
WW: Midland County. North of Midland, just below ____.
JS: So, lower peninsula. East of Lansing. Now did you grow up there, or did you move
around?
WW: I grew up in Midland, but Hope was a farm. And my folks lived in Midland, and
then they moved to the farm, and then they moved back to Midland. The farm is still in
the family.
JS: Why were you moving back and forth? Did your father change jobs?
WW: My grandparents bought 120 acres in Hope with a barn, a home, and my mother
and father went there to live and farm. And my dad found out he was not a farmer. He
scratched out a living but that was about all. I don’t know the date, but Dow Chemical
company was starting out, and he went to Midland to get a job and they hired him, so
we went to Midland to live.
JS: Did you go to high school in Midland?
WW: Yes.
JS: And did you graduate from high school?
WW: Yes.
JS: Before that though, do you remember how you heard about Pearl Harbor?

�WW: No. I really don’t. I don’t.
JS: Okay. I just ask that. Most people do, but not everyone. On the other hand, once
that does happen, how did the start of the war affect the community, the school, or
anything like that?
WW: I guess I don’t…
JS: Were a lot of people now going off to enlist in the military?
WW: My brother, he enlisted. But my next-door neighbor, my folks, was on the draft
board in Midland. And I wanted to enlist. When he’d come over and talk to my dad, and
I was there. And he said, “Jim. Don’t let him enlist.” He said, “I need a quota, and I want
him on the quota.” It was a case of he needed bodies, and I was one of them, so I just
waited for them to draft me.
JS: When did you get drafted?
WW: In August. I don’t know the date; I know the month was August.
JS: Was it August of ’43?
WW: Yup.
JS: So, by then you’re 19?
WW: Yup.
JS: When had you graduated from high school?
WW: ’43.
JS: So, it’s only just a couple of months between finishing high school…
WW: Two months.
JS: When you’re drafted, what branch of service did they put you in?
WW: Navy.
JS: Where did they send you for your training?
WW: Chicago.

�JS: To Great Lakes?
WW: Yup. Great Lakes.
JS: So, north of the city itself…. And what was Navy boot-camp like?
WW: I really don’t…. A hundred guys there, you know? It was only just a couple of
months. We didn’t learn anything. It was just existing and getting the uniform.
[4:47]
JS: Did they have you do marching?
WW: Oh yeah! We did march. But that would be about the only thing.
JS: Did the Navy teach you how to tie knots?
WW: Yeah.
JS: Did they teach you firefighting or put you in a room full of smoke?
WW: Nope. Oh, yes! They gave us a gas mask and had us go through a room that had
something in it. Tear gas! And I do remember that because the guy in front of me that
used the gas mask that I used got the stuff inside of it and when I put it on, it was just
terrible.
JS: So, you were sharing gas masks?
WW: Oh yeah!
JS: And how hard or easy was it for you to adjust to life in the military?
WW: No problem at all! In fact, my dad was worried about me because I was fairly
young. He came down to Great Lakes to see me, and spent maybe two or three hours
with me, and then come back home and tell my mother that, “Don’t worry about him!
He’s got it, and he’s okay!”
JS: But still, it’s a pretty short time. You’re only there a couple of months. So where do
you go next?
WW: San Clemente Island. I took a train, and a hundred other guys, and we went to
San Diego.

�JS: Do you remember anything about the train ride?
WW: Yeah.
JS: What was that like?
WW: It was crowded. And they would stop real often to get water…usually in a town. All
the towns people would come out because all the service men were hanging out the
window, putting their name and address on a piece of paper, handing it out. And I didn’t
do that.
JS: Were you able to get off the train at all?
WW: Yeah. Well, you got off, but they kept pretty close tabs on you, you didn’t get very
far away. But they would let you off to walk around a little bit, and then they’d round you
back up.
JS: Did you get any sleep on the train?
WW: Yeah, we must have.
JS: But you didn’t have Pullman Cars, you were just in the regular seats?
WW: Well, those seats would pull down, but then there’d only be room for two, but if
they were up, there was room for four, so they were up. You sleep sitting up.
JS: About how long did the train trip take?
WW: You know that’s something I have no idea! Because they didn’t go straight. They
went north. And of course, everyone was always wondering where we were going. And
you would wake up in the morning and the sun would be on one side of the train, wake
up the next morning and it’d be on the other side of the train, so we were going zig-zag.
Of course, when we got to the mountains, I pretty well figured it out that we were going
to the west coast.
[9:04]
JS: So where is San Clemente Island?
WW: It’s 70 miles off the coast of San Diego, just south of Catalina. Catalina is known
because it was a resort and there are people there year-round. San Clemente was a
naval base and an air base. The military, they owned the whole thing.
JS: There’s no town there? There’s no civilians?

�WW: No. Just sailors and marines.
JS: So, when you got there then, what kind of facilities did you have? Where were you
sleeping…?
WW: They had a base built. There were barracks, and I’ll call it an entertainment center,
and a galley, and showers, and toilets. It was pretty well put together. And a BOQ. It
was ready. In fact, it had some houses on it, for the officers that had wives. Those that
didn’t lived in the BOQ.
JS: BOQ? What does that stand for?
WW: Bachelor’s Officers’ Quarters.
JS: But you’re just an enlisted man, so you’re just in the regular barracks?
WW: Yeah, just the regular barracks.
JS: What was your job there?
WW: When I first go there I was just a seaman. I’d sweep the floor, wash the windows.
But then they found out I was a new carpenter, and knew how to turn a table saw on
and off. You can go to the carpenter shop! And then I had a fellow I went to school with
who graduated. He was there with me too. He was a Finnish carpenter, and he
recommended I get into the carpenter shop.
[11:25]
JS: So, what does a carpenter on a naval base do?
WW: Repair windows, screens. Build whatever they needed. But the big job was making
picture frames, believe it or not! Every officer wanted a picture frame. Of course, the
island had a lot of abalone. Abalone, the shell, is real pretty on the inside.
JS: Yeah, it’s like a mother-of-pearl kind of thing.
WW: I was on the lobster crew, and they used abalone for bait for the lobsters. The
lobsters would eat the bait, and there would be that shell. I would bring them back to the
carpenter shop. And they would cut that in strips and inlay it into a piece of wood and
then sand it smooth, and that would make a picture frame. Real pretty! Of course, every
officer there wanted you to make one, two, three, can you make me another one?! They
would also make suitcases, suitcases out of plywood. They were nice. They were pretty

�and finished nice. If you didn’t, you had a sea bag when you went to shore. That didn’t
cut it.
JS: So, you had a wooden suitcase instead?
WW: We made a lot of suitcases, yup. The guys would go ashore and buy handles,
hinges, and little caps to go on the corners. They’d bring them back in a little bag and
say, “Make me a suitcase.”
[13:40]
JS: What was the main function of the naval base there? What was going on there?
WW: Well, several. One thing was, the navy used it for bombardment. The island was
27 miles long and 4 miles wide. The south end of it was nothing. But the navy would
drop off some, whatever, workers, unbeknownst to us. They didn’t go through us or go
near us, but they would build bunkers like what the Japanese had. They would be
replicas of what they had. And those boys with the big guns would be out of sight, but
you could hear them. And they would shell those bunkers to see what damage they
could do to them from what distance, and whether they could hit them or not. That was
one thing. The other thing was we had a real good rifle range. In fact, it was a ranger
base at one time. The rifle range was excellent. And of course, the navy still wanted to
use it. And the dock wasn’t deep enough for any large ships, so they would anchor out
and bring them a crew, a few at a time, and we would take them up to the rifle range,
and they would practice shooting. They had real nice targets. Pull down, back up. It was
state of the art at the time.
[15:57]
JS: And there was also an air force base there?
WW: There was an air force base there, but I think they had maybe two, or three, or four
airplanes. It wasn’t anything. It was just, I’m assuming, just in case Japanese would get
that far.
JS: Did they have patrol planes, or were they fighters, or do you not know what they
were?
WW: Well, they had two PBYs that I knew of, and the other two or three, I don’t know
what they were, I don’t remember. But I do remember the PBYs because we would, our
liberty crew…. It took all day to go from San Clemente Island to San Diego, but if you
could catch an airplane…. So, occasionally, we’d catch a PBY and they’d be going into
San Diego or one of the ports, and I caught them a few times, you know.

�JS: So, how often could you actually get back to the mainland?
WW: Every two weeks. Every two weeks we had five days off. Now, give or take, that
doesn’t come out right. We had three or four liberty groups, so there was always one
crew on shore. And they would come back on an old, old, old ____. Moosehead was the
name of it. IX 98. They put the IX on it because it was decommissioned a couple of
times. That’s the thing we rode back and forth, and it took most of the day to get back
and forth. And they brought supplies – water – for the crew, for us.
JS: Did the island not have fresh water?
WW: No. They had water. It had a steep shoreline – it was like a mountain. And they
had built a cement pad, and the down-side of it had a drain, and it drained into a
homemade cistern. That water was used for showers, or whatever. But the drinking
water came from San Diego. It took them all day to pump it. That was that.
After…Maybe I was there a short period of time, don’t know just how long, they had
some new sailors come. But they didn’t talk to us. They were by themselves. They had
their own barracks. They did eat with us, but like a group, they all sat with themselves.
As a young kid, I didn’t think anything of it. And even at the time, they had a thing on the
roof that kept turning. I didn’t think anything of it. No body did, you know. What the hell
are they trying to do? Well, it was radar at its infancy. They had started, and of course, it
was an ideal place because they didn’t have any communications. No workers coming
in and spying on them. It was really an ideal set up.
[20:32]
JS: Well, by this time, we were using a lot of radar. It was on naval ships, but still, it was
a logical place for a radar station. And this may have been fairly advanced one.
WW: It was what?
JS: It may have been an advanced technology. We had radar for a while already, by the
time you were in the Navy. They’re expanding it….
WW: Well, yeah. I’m assuming it just started because the building was already there.
Where else but a private place like that where nobody could…they could have it twirling,
and no body would wonder what it was, other than the sailors. I suppose they didn’t talk.
JS: But they’re not talking to you? They’re not telling you about what they’re doing?
WW: No. And the sailors that were in that program, they didn’t talk to us much either. It
was kind of off by itself.

�JS: How much information did you have about how the rest of the war was going?
You’re in your own little world on this island here.
WW: Oh yeah. But every two weeks, we went to shore. And within five days you could
drink a lot of booze, and you could chase a lot of women, and if you’re lucky, you could
find your way back.
JS: When you went ashore, did you stay on one of the naval bases in San Diego, or
were you turned loose?
WW: No, no, no. First thing you did was jump on a train, head for L.A. Train rides were
free. You just jump on and go, and when you got where you wanted to go, you just jump
off, you didn’t have to ask anybody or pay anybody. It was just on and off. Free! Free
ride!
JS: So, there was more to do in L.A. then in San Diego?
WW: Pardon?
JS: There was more to do in L.A. then in San Diego?
WW: Oh yeah! The competition in San Diego…. You know, there were a hundred
thousand sailors there, with all the ships coming in and docking. One air craft carrier,
you know how many sailors could come off that. We didn’t even slow down. Just got off
the ship and catch the first ride to….
[23:36]
JS: So, what would you do in L.A.?
WW: Now that’s a silly question to ask a sailor!
JS: There are different answers…
WW: We chased a lot of women! A lot of them! Catch a few…. You’d usually get a hotel
room with four guys. Two beds, four guys. Back then, a hotel room was maybe $10, so
for two or three days, it was real expensive. And we didn’t stay in the best hotels either.
You went with the low end!
JS: And you spend a lot of time somewhere else?
WW: Yeah, yeah. You’re right!

�JS: When you were there, there were famous places for service men: Hollywood
Canteen, things like that. Did you go to any of those?
WW: I tried. Several times I tried to go to that Hollywood Canteen, but there was always
so many people there, so many sailors, soldiers. You’d stand outside and wait to get in.
I guess we got in once, and it was elbow to elbow. And that wasn’t fun, so we left. I
never went back. I gave that up as a bad deal.
JS: Now out on the island, what kind of entertainment did they have for you?
WW: I was kind of a businessman, you might say, in my youth. They had a bowling alley
with four lanes, and I ran that. Then they had a lobster crew. The admiral of the 11 th
Naval District liked lobsters. He sent out a boat and wanted us to catch him some
lobsters. Of course, that island had a lot of lobsters. They were just all over the place.
Depending on the weather…. Of course, the carpenter shop, we made the traps. If the
weather was good, we’d get a lot of lobsters, but if the weather was bad, we’d caught
hell because the admiral would be right on the radio wanting to know where his lobsters
were. They tried to explain to him that the weather’s been bad, and he didn’t buy that.
He wanted lobsters. And he paid a whopping $1.50 a dozen. Of course, it was his boat,
his gas, his time. So, it wasn’t so bad.
[27:17]
JS: Would you go out on the lobster boat? Or did you just make the traps?
WW: We had to go out at I think 5:00 in the morning. Because, of course, we had to get
back and eat breakfast, and stand muster, and do our normal work. This lobster deal
was after work. But it paid good. I don’t remember how many were on it, but we had to
have two crews because of this liberty deal. And then we had a cook, and he’d boil the
lobsters, so he had to get in on it.
JS: So, you didn’t have a lobster tank where you’d keep them for a while? You would
just cook them right away?
WW: No. We’d bring the lobsters in and he’d boil them. I suppose they’d fly them to San
Diego. I don’t know.
JS: So, the admiral is not there on the island with you? He’s back in San Diego?
WW: Yeah. He’s in San Diego. He’s got some friends back there that like lobsters. We
have to feed them. The radio would just bounce, and the weather was bad. They’d try to
explain to him that…the five foot, six foot waves out there. Why can’t you just go to the
other side of the island? That doesn’t work.

�JS: Did you get to keep any of the lobsters for yourself?
WW: Yeah. Yup. We had a little burner in the woodshop and a pot, and we’d take out
some small ones. And somebody’d go down to the galley and get a loaf bread so we
could have lobster sandwiches. They were good. A little butter…. They went down
pretty easy.
JS: On the island, did they have a movie theater up there or some place to show
movies?
WW: They had a room. They’d show movies. And the bowling alley. And then they had
a bar. They sold beer, but of course I was too young to participate in that. The bowling
alley was four lanes and that was in the basement of where the theater was. It was
pretty well built, pretty well managed, I would say. They had paved streets and curbs.
[30:44]
JS: Now, you’re in the military at a point when it’s still segregated. Were there any black
sailors at the island at all?
WW: Yup.
JS: And what did they do?
WW: Cooks. In fact, the one that boiled our lobsters were black. But they were all in the
BOQ. All of them.
JS: So, they’re really just there as stewards or people to look after the officers?
WW: Yup. We did have one guy from Texas there. I don’t know why they moved some
of the black sailors into the barracks he was sleeping in. He was hot. He didn’t want
that. In fact, he took his hammock outside. And of course, they had places for the
hammocks. And he tied his hammock out there and he slept out there for a couple of
nights until they decided they would do something different. They had extra barracks,
but for some reason wanted to irritate him, I guess. He was a nice enough guy. He was
an awful good poker player and a good craps shooter. There was a lot of that going on
on pay day.
JS: Were you perfectly happy to have this job, or did you think you ought to be in the
real war?

�WW: I was a happy sailor. In fact, my name came up three times for transfer. Each time,
someone else would want to go. And it was kind of funny because they’d come down to
me and ask, “Is it okay if I go down and see if I can take your place?” Have at it! I love
you! Because I was happy!
JS: So, were there a lot of men who got reassigned and went other places? So, you
show up on the island in late ’43, and then you’re there for the rest of the war. Were
there a lot of guys that got transferred out, or just a few?
WW: Oh, transferred off the island?
JS: Yeah.
WW: Oh yeah. They’d come and go. Not a lot, but there was…. In fact, one of the guys
that came to me wanting to take my place – in fact I think it was the last one – I certainly
told him ____. He ended up on the same ship as my brother. That was kind of different.
[33:51]
JS: You finished at the rank of Carpenter Third Class. Do the ranks, how do they count?
Is third higher than second, or the other way around?
WW: No, no. First class is highest. It goes third, second, first. Third class had three
stripes, second class had two…. I was low man on the totem pole. I did take the exam
for second class, and I was sure I passed it – I didn’t have any doubt in my mind. But,
the chief petty officer that ran the carpenter shop had a friend in the carpenter shop. He
was third class too, the two of us. And there was an opening for second class, so we
both wrote the exam. And I was sure I passed it, but you’re never know, you know.
Anyway, so orders come in for William Wall to do a 30-day transfer to San Diego – 30
days in San Diego. Oh, alright. I’ll go. I packed up, they took me to San Diego, and I
spent 30 days doing absolutely nothing. I come back, the other guy had made second
class while I was gone. I just figured the chief wanted me out of there while he made the
next grade. Which, he…. That was what he wanted. I was such a good poker player that
the little bit they were giving me didn’t make a bit of difference to me. I was just an
extremely good poker player.
[35:52]
JS: So, you’re having a perfectly good time, and the rest of it didn’t matter?
WW: I had a ball! I did have some times when things were a little hairy, but as it went, I
really had a good time.
JS: When you say things got hairy, what kind of things happened?

�WW: We had to take these sailors from ground level up to that rifle range. They had
trucks that had seats – benches – in them. And they’d come, of course, they didn’t have
truck drivers sitting there waiting there for them. They’d say, “Can you drive a truck?”
Yeah, we can drive a truck. Anyway, coming back…I was coming up one of those and I
started to roll backwards. And I jumped on brakes, and I couldn’t figure out why it
wouldn’t go forward – couldn’t do anything with it. Of course, it was empty, I didn’t have
any sailors. So, I eased off the brake and I backed all the way down, which really wasn’t
that far, but it was far enough. I got down to the valley, and I got out and looked and the
drive shaft – the U-joint – had broke. And the drive shaft just laid there. And right over
the edge was a 25, 100 foot drop off. That was probably my scariest moment. As it
went, it was good. I enjoyed it. I made a lot of friends.
JS: Now, you’re there. Eventually the war itself comes to an end in the middle of ’45.
Did that change anything on the base, once the war ended, once the Japanese
surrendered.
WW: Oh yeah! Yeah, yeah, yeah. It changed conversation, that’s for sure. Everybody’s
talking about going home. When it first ended, we didn’t have enough points – we were
considered in the state-side. I don’t know, in maybe two or three weeks they decided
that we were far enough out that we could get – we didn’t get sea paid because we
were too close to shore, although we were 70 miles off the coast, we still didn’t get sea
paid. But they decided that they would give us points for sea, which gave me enough to
get out. The chief, he wanted me to stay. I didn’t want to say. But he said, “Well I’ll give
you the next rank up.” I think if he had said two I would have stayed, but one wasn’t
enough.
[39:43]
JS: So, when did you leave the island then?
WW: Well, it must have been February.
JS: 1946 then?
WW: Hmm?
JS: 1946?
[Video/Audio Errors, next few seconds]

�WW: Yeah. I made a couple of mistakes. My ear drums. While I was on that island, I
developed perforated ear drums, and boy are those painful. And as a young kid, it just
busted one night. It wasn’t earthshaking, it was just a set-back.
JS: What had happened to your ear?
WW: I don’t know. It just busted one night. Of course, we had some real large saws in
the carpenter shop. Not that we needed them. We didn’t need them. But here’s this
island. The Navy would say, we got this piece of equipment, in this case a saw, and if
you want it, you can have it. Of course, the chief in charge: “Oh, we’ll take it!” And it was
a monster. It was probably made to cut 12, 14-inch logs. The used to use those to shore
up a ship when it was in dry-dock, and they’d hammer them in with a sledge hammer. It
had a huge blade. We never used it, but it was there. They started it up every once in a
while. It just screamed. As I look back on it, at the time it didn’t bother me. A 19-year-old
kid, “you can’t hurt this guy.” But I think it did, and it took 40 years to show up.
[43:38]
JS: Once you got out of the Navy, what did you do?
WW: Well, I always liked retail. Of course, when I was in the Navy, I ran it like a
business. I kept busy, and I enjoyed that. My uncle owned a hardware store, but he had
a full crew. So, I went to work for another hardware store. Then he decides that maybe
he’d like to retire. So, I bought it. I ran that for maybe 10 years. But in the process,
Sears-Roebuck moved into town, and of course they spent up a lot of trade. The
business was not fast, but you could tell it was trailing off a little bit. At the time, I took
out out-board motors to sell, and boats, and that was really going. I rented a garage, a
used car lot – not a used car – a new car dealership had moved, and the woman had
the building that was just right for me. It had parking and big doors, just everything was
just right, so I rented it from her. Then one day, a guy came in and wanted to buy it from
me. Being a good business man, anything I have is for sale, so I always wanted to
make money, and I sold it to him. I went home and told the wife I had sold it, and she
had a fit, because I was unemployed. Then a friend of mine called me up and wanted to
know if I would be interested in selling cars. So, then I went into the car business. And
that lasted a long time. When I decided to quit work altogether, I was still playing in the
car business – not real heavy, but I had my finger in it. Once you get that bug, you
know, you can’t quit! It’s just in the blood veins.
[46:41]
JS: When you look back at the time you spent in the Navy, what do you think you took
out of that or how did it affect you?

�WW: What?
JS: How did being in the Navy affect you? Did you learn anything from it or did you grow
up at all?
WW: [Laughs] Oh boy! Yeah. Oh yeah. I learned how to chase women. I do remember
that. And out in L.A. there were a lot of women to chase. But it was fun. And there were
some hairy times too. I got hooked up with some guys from the island, and I thought I
knew them. I stayed with them in the hotel, and oh, were they different. It only took me
one trip, and then the next time I was busy. I steered clear of them. But those are the
tings you learn, and you learn from your mistakes. You just have to be careful. But as a
whole, I enjoyed my time. I had some pretty good buddies. We stuck together pretty
good and knew right from wrong. You like women. One under your arm and go
someplace. It was a time when I grew up and enjoyed it.
JS: Well it makes for a pretty good story, and an unusual story.
WW: Well, yeah. There were no gun shows. No big guns going off. Although, those
bunkers those guys were firing on were…. And of course, as they would fire on that,
that island in a certain part of the year would be real dry, and would start grass fires.
And I don’t care if you’re a first class bowman or a third class sweeper, you got a
broom, and you went out, and you brushed the fire. It was all just grass, but it still had to
be put out.
[49:42]
JS: So, you were getting brush fires even on your end of the island?
WW: Oh yeah. Those ships would practice cinerary bombs. They’d go off off above and
scatter that hot stuff, and of course, it would burn. They would know that they were
going to do it and they would have the trucks ready loaded with brooms and some
water. You’d get the broom with a rag on it in the water, and then drag it on the grass to
put out the fire. Really a hot way of doing things! That was technology at its best.
JS: Well, thank you very much.

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                  <text>Grand Valley State University. History Department</text>
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                  <text>The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
World War II
Harold Wallace
47:30

Introduction (00:13)
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Hank was born in Oil City, Pennsylvania on April 28, 1927.
He attended Oil City High School, and two weeks after he turned 17, he graduated high
school.
Hank was too young to enlist in the military without his parent’s permission, so his
parents sent him to Allegheny College in Meadville, Pennsylvania for one year.
At the end of that year in April 1945, he enlisted in the United States Navy.

Military Service (01:15)
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Hank was sent to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania for induction, and on Memorial Day 1945 he
was sent to boot camp in Bainbridge, Maryland.
They were tested the first day there, and he was identified as a candidate for sonar school
after he completed his basic training.
His basic training consisted of obstacle courses, swinging on ropes, marching and
running. The most difficult part for Hank was the survival training. During this time, he
had to pass a swimming test that was two laps in an Olympic pool. The most difficult
part for him was the water survival test. For this he had to jump off a twenty foot tower
into the pool fully dressed except for shoes. Once they hit the water, they had to take off
their shirt, tie off the neck and sleeves and use it to make a flotation device. Hank had to
perform the action several times until he was able to pass it. (03:43)
After that, they cancelled all the boot camp training and all of the secondary schools
because the war in Germany was closing down.
Once he completed boot camp, they were sent to Camp Perry, Virginia and stayed there
for two weeks training on heavy equipment such as ditch diggers and cranes.
They were then put on a train and four days later reached Port Hueneme, California.
At the port, they waited for a full load to fill the troop ship, which took another two
weeks. While there, the men were all required to have a job, so Hank chose to set
bowling pins at the bowling alley. (05:56)
They thought they were being shipped to Guam. On board the troop ship, they slept in
cots that were stacked four high.
The ship stopped at a little island named Eniwetok and once there, a man called four
names, one of which was Hank’s. He was transferred to the USS Pavlik APD 70 (All
Purpose Destroyer]. He was a deck ape, and for three weeks chipped the deck and
painted. When they were out to sea and the water was calm, they were able to put a
platform over the side of the deck and paint. (07:49)

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While on board the ship, he met an officer that had attended the same college he did. The
officer asked if he wanted to come and work for him. He was in charge of all the
quartermaster facilities on board the ship, which included the supply closets, the stores,
the dining menu and the laundry. (09:45)
He had two other people working for him, and the office was very small. Hank worked
as the disburser, who paid people on the ship.
On the APD, they had a five inch gun on the front of the ship, and over the bridge they
had batteries of Pom Pom guns, which were used primarily against aircraft. (11:46)
The ship was also armed with depth charges.
Hank volunteered to become a sight setter for the five inch gun. He controlled the wheels
that adjusted windage and elevation.
The ships mission was to patrol there section of the Pacific Ocean two hundred miles
from Japan. They would pick up flyers that were coming back from bombing Japan and
weren’t able to land. (13:58)
His ship never picked up any flyers, but ships that were with them did.
The ship carried a crew of 128 men.
They were sent to Yokosuka Harbor six days after the war had ended. They weren’t
allowed to dock on the land, so they attached themselves to a bell out in the harbor about
800 yards from shore. (15:43)
The men became bored on their ship, and they could not go on land because it was not
secure outside of the Army secured area.
Still working as the disbursing man, Hank was shown inside the safe onboard ship that
held $700,000. (18:30)
After being there for several months, they wanted to acquire an empty warehouse on
shore to turn into a recreational facility for the crew. The Lieutenant Commander
onboard ship tried unsuccessfully, so Hank was given 72 hours to get one himself. So he
sat down and wrote a letter to the Army, he later delivered it directly to General
MacArthur’s Headquarters at the Imperial Hotel in Tokyo. At the office, he met a man
he knew from back home in the states, who was now working as one of MacArthur’s
aids. Fifteen minutes later he was given an order giving them permission to use the
warehouse for as long as they were stationed there. (24:45)
They had a ping-pong table and some card tables in the warehouse. They also bought
some beer from the PX. Some men did some painting on the walls and they really fixed
up the place.
Most of the men only wanted small amounts of their pay, usually around $25. (26:55)
Hank kept track of all the files about who got paid and how much they were given.
Eventually they were able to travel around Japan. Hank visited Komikuri and saw the
shrines and other religious sites around the area. (28:38)
On one occasion he was able to go into a family’s home and he saw that the house was
bare except for three rolled up mats in the corner that they slept on at night. They ate
fish, rice and a soup made out of seaweed. (30:30)
The exchange rate at that time was 15 Yen per dollar. Americans would take a pack of
cigarettes and sell them to the Japanese and then take the Yen and have it converted into
dollars. Later, a limit was put on the amount that could be converted.

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Communication was very bad in Japan at the time, and many people did not know the
war was over. They were warned not to drink the whiskey because it may be the wrong
alcohol. (32:45)
At night, Hank would sometimes write letters for other sailors that couldn’t write
themselves. (35:51)
Occasionally they would set up a screen on the deck of the ship and show movies.
By the end of July 1946, they were ordered back to the states. They traveled to Hawaii,
then to Charleston, South Carolina by way of the Panama Canal. When they got there,
they were told they were going to refurbish their ship. (38:05)
Hank had to take all the money out of the safe and remove all the pay records and
brought them to the Philadelphia Naval Command for an audit.
At that point, Hank was given an honorable discharge. He served as SK3C (Store
Keeper/Disbursal) and he was discharged on August 19, 1946.
He was awarded the Medal of Freedom, along with all the other men that served with him
at that time.
When he was given his dog tags, they read: Hank G. Wallace, Service Number, Date of
Enlistment, USNR, A (blood type). Luckily, he was never injured, because his blood
type is not A. (40:30)
The only souvenir that he brought home was the bayonet that fit on the barrel of his rifle.
He was awarded the Atlantic Area and Pacific Area fleet ribbons.
On December 7, 1945 two Japanese men swam from the shore and tried to climb up the
lines that held them anchored. They were armed with knives, but the pair was discovered
by the deck patrol and jumped off the deck and got away.

Thinking Back (44:03)
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Hank chose to join the Navy because he was so small (5’4”, 128 lbs.) he didn’t want to
join the Army or Marine Corps and run into a big German and make him think that he
had run out of men.
He adapted well to military life, and he enjoyed the relationships that he had with his
fellow serviceman.
The food was surprisingly good, and Hank helped to come up with the menu.
When the war ended, he was out to sea about two hundred miles from Japan. (46:10)
After the war, he adjusted well back into civilian life. Shortly after returning home he
reentered college.
Hank learned in the service that people have to make the most of what you have.

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                <text>Harold was born in Oil City, Pennsylvania on April 28, 1927.  After he graduated high school, he attended Allegheny College and later joined the United States Navy in April 1945.  He was sent to Bainbridge, Maryland for basic training.  Hank was stationed on the USS Pavlik in the Pacific and Japan and served as a supply and disbursing clerk.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veteran’s History Project
Vietnam War
Bob Wallace Interview
Total Time: 1:24:54
Background
 (00:11) Born in Plattsburgh, New York
 (00:30) Played football, baseball, a bit of basketball
 (00:50) Dad was a prison guard at the state prison, mother was an RN
 (1:05) Went to a Jr. College in upstate New York
o Took forestry
 (1:20) After two years, went to University of Michigan
o Conservation and water pollution
 (1:48) Went to the Peace Corps in 1964 before getting degree, then got degree in 1966
 (2:50) Through the Peace Corps, he went to Nigeria
o Assigned to write Game Laws
o He was in the first group in Peace Corps who weren’t teachers
o (3:27) Learned the language of the area he was going to in Nigeria, 260
languages in Nigeria total
 (4:35) Mentions that after Vietnam he worked in US Customs, and when he got a
Nigerian from the same area on the phone, he talked in his language, Ibo, and the guy
was surprised, thought of him as his brother
 (5:43) He was trained in Nigeria for 3 months
 (6:53) When he got to Nigeria, noticed it was disastrous, many animals eaten
 (7:50) Didn’t like how the British left the colonies – no help with setting up government
or anything
 (8:20) Mr. Wallace’s job was to establish the Teak and Mahogany trees
o (9:00) Reestablished plantations that were there
 (9:30) He noticed the Nigerians didn’t think white people went to the bathroom, they
looked surprised when he asked where to go
 (10:50) Got back to the US, finished degree
Drafted
 (11:15) Got a draft notice that told him to report to Albany
o Lined up, physical, etc
o Counted down the lines: “1, 2, 3, Marine…”
o He wasn’t a Marine

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(12:00) Mr. Wallace was drafted in April of 1968
(12:10) Received Basic and AIT at Ft. Dix
(12:23) While he was in Basic, he was asked if he wanted to go to OCS, he said yes
(12:54) Went to Ft. Benning, Georgia
(13:21) He enjoyed the training, 26 at the time, most of the guys were 18-22
(14:00) Enjoyed rifle shooting
(14:15) Thought that Vietnam would be over soon, and tried to delay things as much as
he could
(14:29) Went to Ft. Polk as a training officer
(14:47) Offered to go to Jungle School in Panama
o Also enjoyed this, reminded him of Africa because of jungles and map reading,
etc
(16:16) Jungle School was about a month
(16:32) After that, they flew to Charleston, South Carolina and took a C-141 to Travis Air
Force Base
(17:07) He was on his way to Vietnam at this time
(18:40) Flew from Travis to Anchorage, to Okinawa, then to Saigon

Vietnam
 (18:55) After getting off of the plane they went on a bus with caged windows because
they were afraid of people throwing grenades at them
 (19:15) Went to SERTS training, remembers getting a little red pill that showed a dentist
where they hadn’t brushed their teeth
 (20:01) Learned about booby-traps
 (20:58) This training was for the 101st Airborne Division, to which he was assigned
 (21:28) Flew to where 101st was, the unit was coming back from A Shau Valley
o Landed on a highway, introduced to company
o He was very nervous and scared
o The Sgt. In his platoon was Sgt. White, who was very good
o (22:23) Went up to Sgt. White and told him how he felt, he told him not to worry
and that he’d get him through it
o Anytime he had a decision, he would tell Mr. Wallace about it
o (23:33) Sgt. White was there for 2-3 months when Mr. Wallace was there
 (24:04) Assigned to Charlie Company, 1st platoon leader, 2/506 Infantry
 (24:21) Went back to Camp Evans, stayed there 3-4 days
 (24:41) Flew up to the edge of the DMZ, Mai Loc, combat assaulted out of the DMZ
 (25:10) Between 20-40 helicopters in the air

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(25:36) Remembers children asking for candy, but really writing helicopter frequencies
on their arms
(26:22) There was a priest giving out communion, and Sgt. White was giving out whiskey
(27:10) It didn’t make sense to Mr. Wallace that he was praying to the same God the
people he killed were, puzzled about war
(27:34) “Religion is a zero for this year”
(28:42) The most striking thing in his whole year there was when they landed on an LZ,
saw a US soldier being dragged by others trying to get him on a helicopter and a soldier
who was pulling him turned around to respond to someone and his head exploded
(29:57) Standing on a mountain top, watched F-4 phantom jets, as he looked, a piece of
one of the bombs bounced off of his helmet
o (30:40) Remembers the piece being beautiful, stress lines made it all different
colors, so he put it in his pocket
o (31:03) A week later it was rusted because of the sweat from his uniform
(31:30) The NVA would strike and run
(31:47) Says the Vietnamese soldiers didn’t get credit, they lived off of what they could
carry, US soldiers lived off of what the helicopters could bring in
(32:10) Mr. Wallace carried 18 magazines for an M-16, everyone had to carry 50 rounds
for a machine gun, but he carried a couple hundred rounds, carried a couple extra
batteries for the RTO, smoke grenades, C-rations
o (33:10) He was the only one who enjoyed C-rations
(34:07) Used to pick branches from the trees, brought back different samples of wood
because of his background in forestry
(34:33) Mr. Wallace says if you have to be there (Vietnam at the time), it’s good to enjoy
something of it
o Said most of the time it wasn’t bad
o Notices how he rested on the good times he had
(35:22) In his platoon, he had about 25,which was pretty good
o (35:55) People coming in all the time, leaving for R&amp;R, appointments
o Lucky to have 25 most of the time
o Believes smaller was better because in the jungle trying to move was easier
(37:10) Thought it was better to be shot at, at least once a week so the whole unit is
exposed to gun fights
(38:31) Sometimes he went 2-3 weeks without being shot at
(39:19) He felt safer in the field, thinks that staying a few days in the rear took away a
bit of your sense of being in the field
(39:55) His unit was really close

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(40:08) Knowing where you were was very important
(40:45) Sometimes to let the others in his company know where he was, he’d shoot a
white phosphorous round in the air
o This was helpful because some guys had no idea where they were
(41:40) After being pulled out of DMZ, they got to spend a few days on Eagle Beach
(42:30) On Christmas Eve, he and the guys in his unit decided to build a hut
o (43:18) His commander called it a “Gypsy camp”, and then Mr. Wallace’s
nickname was Gypsy
(43:44) Afterwards, they went to many fire bases
(44:55) After being in the field 6 or 7 months, he decided to go on his R&amp;R
o (45:07) Went to Australia, when he came back, his unit was hit near [Firebase]
Ripcord
o This was near the beginning of the Ripcord operation
o He was asked to go down to Graves Registration and get the names of the bodies
o (46:10) He couldn’t identify who was black or white because of the blood and
sand
(47:37) Was told he would be going to Ripcord
o Next morning around 5:30 they started, nice clear morning
o They got to the top without fire or anything
o (48:10) Once they were up to the top, digging, there was an explosion from a
hand grenade
o They were also hit with mortar rounds
o (48:56) Believes Captain Vazquez saved many lives by what he did
o Very impressed with Captain Vazquez, this was his 2nd tour in Vietnam
o Vazquez was his company commander
o (49:40) His whole company was on top of Ripcord and they were fortifying the
position
(49:53) They were on Ripcord for about a month
o At the end of the month they combat assaulted out and went to another
firebase
o Then afterwards, he got his job in the rear
(50:18) Once he got transferred to the rear, he had 7-8 months in the field
(50:35) The policy was usually 6 months in the field, then to the rear, people with higher
ranks stayed longer, Mr. Wallace didn’t necessarily think it was fair
o (51:30) Didn’t see how he was more of a target than the machine gunner
o To identify him as lieutenant, it wasn’t easy
(53:35) The guys he was with, he would do anything for

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(54:00) When talking about a battle after Ripcord on Hill 902, he felt sorry he wasn’t
there
(55:00) Mr. Wallace thinks he knew more about this RTO’s wife that he served with than
he did, when talking about the relationships between soldiers
(55:30) When talking about a fellow soldier who died, describes the low feeling he had
when they talked to him about giving the guy a medal
o It felt like they were trying to make it right when the guy gave “the ultimate”
o (56:27) “You don’t do it for your country, you do it for the guy who’s next to
you”
(57:20) He mentions when talking to his wife, he said his life went downhill after
Vietnam even though he was successful
o (57:42) Believes that was the peak
(58:10) His job with Brigade after being taken out of the field consisted of being on the
radio with every battalion and company; they called him and asked for resupplies, etc.
(1:00:20) He never in the field saw ANY drugs
o (1:00:58) In Camp Evans, yes, that’s why he didn’t like it
o (1:01:40) Didn’t want to be in the rear and be overrun
o (1:02:45) He believes the guys in the unit wouldn’t have stood for that
o (1:03:05) It wasn’t a problem until he got home and heard people talking about
drug use there, to Mr. Wallace, it was the opposite
(1:03:25) Was told not to wear his uniform when he left Ft. Lewis [on return from
Vietnam] because of the way people responded to Veterans
(1:03:31) Remembers if a car backfired he would get on his hands and knees because of
a natural reaction from being in Vietnam
(1:04:23) Racial make-up of his company: 6 or 7 blacks, but everybody was one
(1:05:30) He wonders if certain people don’t show up to reunions because of beliefs that
it was a “white man’s war”
o (1:06:40) Mentions that he lives in Canada
o Talks about how there is racism there as well, but others don’t believe there is
o (1:08:10) Believes if others were on the outside looking into the United States,
they would like their country more
o (1:08:40) Believes these things are of human nature

Going Home
 (1:08:55) Took off from Da Nang Air Base, says that it was quiet, and as soon as the
plane lifted off, everyone started yelling from excitement
 (1:09:36) Flew to Kona Air Force Base in Japan, then to Seattle
o Got medevaced at one point and lost shoes he had been issued

�










o (1:10:25) Got shoes replaced but didn’t have money with him, flew out
o 10 years later, got a bill for $8.25 for shoes
o Never got any money from Vietnam, called about it
o (1:11:45) Got a check eventually for $80 some, including interest
(1:13:20) He had a two year military career, he just wanted to get home
o Did what he was told, but didn’t go looking
o (1:14:12) There was a rumor that if you wanted to live and go back to the states,
get with Lieutenant Wallace
o (1:15:45) Knew he wouldn’t be a career officer, but knew he would spend some
time at home, and then go back as a company commander if the war continued
o (1:16:30) Knew he would have been rifted
(1:17:35) Ended up with a job in US Customs
o A lot of the guys who got into US Customs were former officers who had been
“riffed”, demoted to enlisted rank
(1:18:00) He got enjoyment out of a bad situation by collecting things
o (1:19:10) Remembers writing Tricia Nixon a letter on her birthday
o (1:19:32) Got a letter back from her
o Often wrote to celebrities and different companies
(1:20:19) At Ft. Lewis he got 30 days of leave
o (1:20:55) Really liked Ft. Polk, asked to go there, nobody else requested it
o (1:21:36) Became company commander of about 300 Vietnam Veterans that
were going to get out of the service soon
o (1:22:07) Mr. Wallace had to sell them savings bonds, also to bail them out of jail
o (1:22:47) Did this from September 1970 to February 1971 then got discharged
(1:23:11) When he was in Vietnam, he got some sort of foot fungus, but told them there
was nothing wrong so he wouldn’t have to stay
(1:23:25) Mentions that they used to get letters from school kids, so he stopped by the
school

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                    <text>Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Departement
Interviewee: Richard Walsworth
Interviewer: Phil Carter
Location: Hart Library
Date: 6/18/2016
English Audio Transcription
Phil Carter: This is Phil Carter and I am here today with Dick Walsworth, at the Hart Library, in Heart
Michigan on June 18th, 2016. This oral history has been collected as a part of the growing community
project; which is supported, in part, by a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities (NEH)
Common Heritage Program. Thank-you Dick for taking time to talk with me today, I' am interested to
learn more about your family history and your experiences in living and working in Oceana county. Can
you please tell me your full name and spell it?
Richard Walsworth: Richard Walsworth, R-I-C-H-A-R-D W-A-L-S-W-O-R-T-H.
Phil Carter: And you do not use any accents when spelling your name?
Richard Walsworth: No.
Phil Carter: Tell me about where you grew up.
Richard Walsworth: I grew up in Golden Township in Oceana County. I spent my entire life in that
township, except for a short period when I went to college. Other than that, I spent my entire life in
Golden Township.
Phil Carter: Who are your family members and could you give me their names? Your immediate family.
Richard Walsworth: My parents were Walter and Anna Walsworth, who are both deceased. I have a sister,
Joyce Ensign, and two brothers who are living, Donald and Kenny Walsworth. And I have one brother,
James Walsworth, who is deceased.
Phil Carter: Thank-you. What are some of your most vivid memories from your childhood?
Richard Walsworth: Well, we grew up on a farm. My parents had just gone through the depression. That
certainly left a strong feeling in their hearts on how we kids grew up. We grew up as poor children, but
we were no poorer than the next door neighbor. Not many people in our area had much in that era, the
early 1940's. Farming was a way of life, it wasn’t about making a lot of money, but it was about food and
fiber. We always had plenty to eat living on a farm. In that respect we lived very well, probably better
than some of our city counterparts. We all worked on the farm. The family worked as a group, we usually
had a family project. We had a pickle patch and that pickle patch was always designed to finance
something for the farm. Like a new furnace for the house, or kitchen covers, or the one I remember the
most is when we bought a television in 1953 for 550 bucks. And you could buy an automobile, a new
automobile, for $1500 in that era. So when you think about it today, the relationship between the cost
of a television and a car it’s remarkable. The television was of course black and white purchased from
Brisinski Hardware here in Hart. It provided tremendous entertainment opportunity for the family.

�Phil Carter: Your father was a farmer?
Richard Walsworth: Yes.
Phil Carter: What about your grandfather?
Richard Walsworth: My grandfather was what I would call a tenant farmer. He lived his entire life in the
old Shana County area, worked for Hire Man. His last year was with Hawley's Nursery, owned by Monroe
Hawley here in town. My dad in his teenage years lived on the Hawley farm and the whole family worked
for the Hawley area. My dad moved to Golden Township in 1926.
Phil Carter: Was your great-grandfather also born in Oceana County or was he an immigrant?
Richard Walsworth: ... [Sigh] you know I don’t know the answer to that.
Phil Carter: That's fine, not a problem. When you first came to Oceana County… and as you said, you have
lived here your entire life. And you've kind of given your fresh first impression of what it was like to live in
Oceana County. As a youngster growing up, what was your first impression of the area? Was it a nice
place to live? Did you hate it? Is it something you just put up with?
Richard Walsworth: Well, Golden Township and this area has always been a good place to live in the early
years. I didn't mind it as much as my folks did. I can remember back in the late ‘40s living in the rural area
in the winter was tough. I mean it was tough. Lots of times we were without roads five or ten days. I can
remember hauling milk out on a stone boat and the neighbors would get two or three tractors together
and we'd try to get the milk out to Bob Williams’s corner where the milkman would come get the milk.
My folks, my mom especially, really did not like living that far back of the main drag. You know as a kid
we would see the milkman and the mailman. We had rural gravel roads. Those two people lots of times
was the only traffic you would see for the entire day. This was in the ‘40s and early ‘50s. But as far as the
area goes, it’s a great place to live. We had good opportunity. Like Swimming in Lake Michigan and local
fishing lakes. And we kids lived at the (Marlbed) when we were young. My brother Don, he was a great
fisherman. I always tagged along. I never really got the hang of it.
Phil Carter: Don is older than you?
Richard Walsworth: Don is four years older, yeah. He was a good mentor.
Phil Carter: Are there any particular memories about living here, maybe additional memories; thoughts or
moments that are special and memorable for you? Good or bad? You mentioned some of the good ones,
any other good ones.
Richard Walsworth: Well [thinking pause] probably the tough one was there was a period of years when
polio was running rampant and we couldn’t go to the lake. I never learned to swim because my mom said
I wasn’t going to the swimming hole because there was a risk. Now that seems restrictive, but back then
we all knew somebody that had polio. Well, my father in law had polio. I never saw Bob walk. That went
on for years. I was in high school, I think about freshmen, when the Salk vaccine came along. That was a
series of shots that we took. I think they were shots? And then later a booster thing. But that really
changed how the community interacted for a good number of years. I think it was like 10 or 12 years.
Bob got polio in the early 40's and I didn’t get the vaccine until ‘55 or ‘56.
Phil Carter: And again, Bob was your father in law? How would you describe Oceana County to someone
who has never been here before?

�Richard Walsworth: Boy... it’s got a lot of [change of thought] when you think about the fact that it's
surrounded by the Great Lakes; you got the Great Lakes, you got the dunes, we got inland lakes. It’s a
great place to live and raise a family. Now we are so close, with good highways which you can be to
Ludington in 20 minutes or Muskegon in 35 minutes. You can live in the country, enjoy the rural life, and
have access to everything. The only thing that were short on.... would be maybe the arts and
performances. If you want to see a good performance you got to go to Grand Rapids or now you can go
to Manistee, they have some talent there. That's probably the only short coming. You got to travel to
find the arts.
Phil Carter: You mentioned some of the ways that the area has changed over time. Are there any other
things that are vivid of that change?
Richard Walsworth: Well in the world of agriculture. You know, my dad started with horses. In about
1926 when he came here it was strictly all horses. He farmed all his life and he lived to be a hundred years
and six months. He drove tractors for me; you know 120 horse power tractors and fit corn ground for me
when he was in his eighties. When you think about what happened in his lifespan it’s almost incredible.
And probably when I gain another 20 years, I will look back and say look what happened in my lifetime!
When I was in high school, we bought our first new tractor in 1950s. We were on the waiting list for 3
years after the war to get an H-Farmall. And we bought that tractor and three or four pieces of equipment
for $2600. My mom said, "We always had money until we finally got a tractor." After that she said, "We
spent all our money on machinery." But the changes that have taken in agriculture... in the early years if
you were not smart enough to do something else, you were a farmer. That was the image that farmers
had. If you couldn't do something else you could be a farmer. Today that certainly isn’t the case. You
have to be well educated and willing to accept technology. It just amazes me to see how technology has
come in to agriculture since the year 2000s. I remember when they were talking about how everything
was going to be run by computer software. I said, "Computers and dirt will never work." And I was really
wrong, because now computers are so technical that I don't do any spraying anymore. If you can't run a
computer easily and fool with it, then sprayer is all done, you can't do it. Everything is computerized. And
it’s all good. I mean it increases production and the ability to produce tenfold, you know.
Phil Carter: Can you please describe a little more about the type of farming you family does, you know,
specific crops, acreage, and number of employees that type of thing?
Richard Walsworth: Well, I grew up as the son of a dairy farmer. My dad milked cows up until about 1963
when Marsh and I got married. We bought a farm closer to Hart. Just out of Hart, 2 miles on 60th avenue.
My mom wanted to get closer to town, so we made arrangements. They moved to the house on a new
farm. Marsh and I stayed at the home farm and my dad sold the dairy cows and put all the money into
the house in remodeling, which was a lot of money, a few thousand dollars, but you know we bought that
farm and 80 acres with a decent house and a decent barn for $1200 in 1963.
Phil Carter: [impressed with the price] UUUUU
Richard Walsworth: Actually '62, Marsh and I bought that the year before we got married. And so dad
retired in about '65 and I went to work for DuPont and I worked for DuPont form '64 to '72. And my dad
retired we rented the farm out to Wilberdy Rider and Wayne Sapphire for 6 or 8 years. In '68 we planted
our first asparagus, like a 3 acre patch. Asparagus was really gaining popularity and farming was really
tough in that era, commodities, like milk and beef and all that stuff was really cheap. And it was very
difficult to make a living on a farm. So we said, "Well, we'll try asparagus." And we planted asparagus

�almost every year after '68. By the time we were in the mid '70s we were probably in the 80 acre range.
And asparagus was 62cents and today its 76 cents. So if you convert the dollars, asparagus was really
valuable back then. From about the mid-70s to the early 80's it was really easy to buy land and to pay for
it, because you could buy land in that era for 300, 400, to 500 dollar per acre. And asparagus... the
varieties we were using then we were picking about 2,000 pounds to the acre. At 60 cents that $1,200
bucks you could net a $1,000, it was an excellent business. And asparagus stayed good... stayed really
well until the late '90s before the Peruvians became a factor. Well there were some free trade
agreements, NAFTA and CAFTA and some of those that came along. Basically gave our markets to our
foreign competitors, and it has really changed the asparagus world. At one time Washington had 32,000
acres, now they’re down to about 6,000 acres. California had over 40,000 acres, they’re down to 8,000
or 9,000; Michigan had 20,000 acres and we’re about half that today. And it has really changed the
industry. Michigan industry was primarily all processed, about 85 % processed up until about 2005 or
2006. Then we began to develop an infrastructure, in state, for packing lines. We now have about 3 or 4
facilities in Oceana County that process fresh asparagus for the big chain stores. And so now the industry
in Michigan is probably about half fresh and the other half processed. And fresh by far is the best. You
know, fresh is roughly about a dollar a pound, what we call tail gate weight. Processed is about 75 cents
for cuts and tips and a dime or so more for spears. The other component that really made it better is the
new varieties that have come in since about the 2,000s that have more than doubled yield. It’s not
uncommon now to have 5,000 pound breaker averages, where back in the day the goal was 2,000 pounds.
That’s what kept us in business, the higher production per acre; otherwise we’d be in trouble.

Phil Carter: At one time... [Change of thought] well your farm is called Golden Stock Farm. Tell me a little
bit about your beef operation that you were in for a while.
Richard Walsworth: Yeah, we had livestock on our farm, I think, from 1932 until about 2002, we never
was without some livestock. My dad was livestock farmer all his life. We had both dairy cows and then
raised beef and then hogs. And in 1979 I built a feed lot and a new silo. We fed beef from about1979
until early 2000s. Never really made any money, it was so competitive. First in the agriculture world,
chickens went mass production. Then pork went mass production. And the cattle feed lots in the late 80s
became big and prominent. Not necessarily in Michigan, there were some, but the western states once
they became so commercial, your margin per head got so little that you just couldn’t make it. There’s
hardly any… I don’t know of a commercial beef operation in our county, today. There are some people
that have 5, 10, or 15 heads. We had a feedlot with a capacity of a 180 heads and we turned it about
every 10 months. It worked. We paid the bills and made a little money, but relative to the work that we
were putting into it, we discontinued it.
Phil Carter: Were there any other crops that you grew other than asparagus? Like corn, beans, potatoes,
or anything like that?
Richard Walsworth: Our current cropping plan for the last few years have been primarily asparagus
because that’s where the money is made. We currently have about 280 acres of asparagus. It grows
generally 350 to 400 acres of corn, 80 acres of soy beans; and soy beans are relatively new to this area,
and we’ve been growing them probably for the last 10 years. They’ve developed varieties that do better
in the northern area and closer to the lake. You know, we don’t get the sunshine here, they get in the
center state, but they’ve bread some varieties. We now can grow 50 bushels beans, and if they are

�underwater closer to 60. So it makes a pretty good mix, but in the final cut asparagus is where we really
make our money.
Phil Carter: When you were talking about underwater, you are referring to irrigation?
Richard Walsworth: Yes, center [could not make word out]
Phil Carter: To cure or purify that?
Richard Walsworth: Yeah
Phil Carter: You’ve talked about a lot of what it’s been like when you first started; you’ve talked about
how it’s been and how it’s changed have. And I think you’ve probably talked about some of the challenges
that you have faced as a grower. Tell me a little bit about your employee situation on your farm.
Richard Walsworth: In the early years we hired local women for asparagus harvest. My wife was a crew
leader and that’s back when we had 80 acres. And we would have about 10 or 12 people, all local
housewives. As times have changed most local housewives now are on the work force, there are not a lot
of women that don’t have a job in this day and age. So we started in the early 90s switching to migrant
labor and today we hire 35 migrants and provide housing. We’ve got 4 duplexes and we house most of
them at the farm. Labor is one of our very serious challenges. The immigration or the lack of immigration
policy at the federal level is really making it difficult. There’s a couple like the H2A program where you
can use offshore labor. Some growers are being forced into doing that, it’s very cumbersome. It’s a little
on the expensive side too. I think that maybe well clear up some of those issues. We’re going to have to
do more of the offshore labor because there’s less and less migrants and they’re becoming more and
more educated and are less likely to do field work. The generation that’s doing fieldwork is getting older.
And as they purge out of the work system, the next generations have all got at least high school education
and a lot of them education beyond that. They’re not going to do field work.
Phil Carter: Dick, what are some of the best things in your mind about being a grower?
Richard Walsworth: [sigh, followed by thinking pause] it’s been a good life. It’s challenging. But the
economics have always been good enough that if you do a good job. And asparagus is one of those things
that are not easy. If it was easy, everybody would do it. It’s not easy, believe me. There are some critical
things, culturally, that you have to do right. First you have to do a good job of establishing your beds. Use
good culturally practices to get peak production. The other component is can you manage help? And a
lot of people can’t manage help. Because we are dealing with help that’s not what you’d call mainstream
help. Even the migrants that have been here 10 or 15 years, if they got their docks lined up, they’re
working for Earl Peterson, or Indian Summers or some place in a more controlled environment. So it’s a
challenge to keep your help happy. And how do you get 35 people to work for 8 weeks of the year? You
know. It’s difficult.
Phil Carter: And just to clarify, Earl Peterson and Indian Summer are fruit and vegetable processor in the
county?
Richard Walsworth: Yeah.
Phil Carter: What are some of the special responsibilities you have as a grower?
Richard Walsworth: Regulatory issues are huge responsibility. Food safety… I never believed we’d see the
level of regulatory things that you have to do to comply with food safety. Third party inspection, now,

�before you deliver to certain processer require third party inspections. Which means farm visits and
there’s a whole host of things you have to do right to pass inspection, or your buyer will not accept your
product. Regulatory issues not only in the food safety world, but the chemicals that you use on your
operation. Unlabeled chemicals are not acceptable, you have to make sure all your chemicals are labeled
and properly used because everybody can check and cross check. And you have to supply all that data to
your processors before they receive your product.
Phil Carter: Has housing for your migrant help been an issue?
Richard Walsworth: Yes it is. We’ve had housing since 1988. We’ve added another duplex last year.
Hosing is a necessity. If you don’t have housing, you can’t control your workers. They’re not there when
you need them. Good housing builds loyalty and you have to have good housing. The days of housing in
substandard conditions are gone. You have to have good housing.
Phil Carter: You’ve said you’ve been doing this our entire life, has this been 50 years plus, I assume?
Richard Walsworth: Yes it has. This is our 48th year of asparagus.
Phil Carter: Dick, what do you do to relax and to socialize?
Richard Walsworth: Oh boy… [laughs] we just travel… we’ve have gone to Florida for the last 20 years for
the month of February. I have a motorcycle. I ride my motorcycle some, but it’s not a high priority with
me. I like to ride, but the risk of riding a motorcycle outweighs the enjoyment.
Phil Carter: Are there any places or institutions beyond your farm that are important to you that are
important to you in Oceana County?
Richard Walsworth: Well, yes. I’ve been on the board of directors with Great Lakes Energy for about 30
years. I’m retiring in August of this year and that has been a wonderful experience for me. A learning
experience and I think I made a difference in our co-op. We’ve merged four co-ops together and became
Great Lakes Energy. During my 30 years at Great Lakes, I served 24 years on the board of directors of
Wolverine Power Supply, which is the supplier of power to Great Lakes Energy, and Great Lakes Energy is
the cooperative that supplies energy to all of Oceana County, with the exception of the cities, otherwise
we supply all the rural areas. And I’ve been chairman of Great lakes for the last four years and chairman
of Wolverine power for the last four years. Both of those will come to an end in August.
Phil Carter: Are there any other organizations that you participate in? Do you speak with, work with, or
represent any farmer’s organizations?
Richard Walsworth: Well I’ve been a member of Farm Bureau since I was out of diapers [laughs]. It’s kind
of expected if you’re a farmer you should be a member of Farm Bureau, there a very important spokesmen
for the agricultural industry on a state wide and national basis. I’ve been a member for as long as I can
remember. I was a member of MACAMA, which is the marketing program that Farm Bureau sponsored.
They have under the 232 law privilege of negotiating grower prices and terms of delivery.
Phil Carter: And that’s for processing asparagus?
Richard Walsworth: Yes, for processing asparagus. I was a chairman of that marketing committee for at
least 15 years, maybe 20. I retired from that a few years ago and sold the farm to my son in 2005. Now
he’s on that marketing committee.

�Phil Carter: Wasn’t he chairman of that?
Richard Walsworth: I think yeah he’s been chairman of that… MACIMA and the ability to negotiate with
processors is probably the main reason the asparagus industry has been successful. We’ve negotiated
favorable prices for growers in Michigan and some years in tough conditions because of international
competition, but still kept the industry viable. We had some tough years, but the industry today is really
in pretty good shape. And here we are last weekend of the season and everybody is still buying asparagus
and eating it…so were very fortunate.
Phil Carter: Let’s look towards the future now; what are some of the hopes for the future for yourself and
Marsha?
Richard Walsworth: Well… [laughs hysterically] health would be the first one I guess. I’m officially retired;
I still do a lot of work on the farm, not the manual work. Ryan really is good about assigning projects to
me if we got to build a migrant house or put an irrigation system in, he’ll say, “you take care of that for
me.” I keep him in the loop and say, “here’s how much money you’re going to have to write a check for.”
That’s provided a nice safety valve for me. So it’s been good you know.
Phil Carter: How about your family, your children, and family members?
Richard Walsworth: Well I have one son, Ryan, who has bought the farm, him and his wife Janise. They
have two girls. One just graduated from high school and the other has one year of college, they are both
going to Cornerstone University. And Janise and Ryan’s son is about 27; he’s out of college and working
as an engineer in Grand Rapids. And I have a daughter in New York, she has two children.
Phil Carter: The last question says, “Would you want your children to go into this line of work”?
Richard Walsworth: Ryan is third generation and maybe [pause to laugh] when his daughters get married,
well get a fourth. But at this point neither one of them have much interest in farm, but you know when
Ryan got out of college, I was at about in my late forties I guess it was. And you know I really didn’t have
an operation big enough for two people. And I said “hey go to the real world and maybe you’ll find
something you really like.” He went into the workforce for about 10 years and then he came back to farm
in ’93. He started some projects planting some asparagus. He had the opportunity to lease some
asparagus form Ed Johnson in Cadillac. He got a little start and started planting his own; he probably had
70 to 80 acres of asparagus of his own. Then we got a joint venture, rented 75 acres from Larry Snyder
over by the Shell airport. When I retired that project floated into his basket. Now he’s planted heavily
the last four to five years, actually ten years now, because he’s been to farm twenty years now. He’s been
in ownership position for twelve years; he kind of gambled and planted a lot of the Canadian variety and
millennium, it was an unknown. But it turned to be a winner. I mean it is yelling really well. And he’s got
a lot of acres so he’s doing well, doing a lot better than I ever did.
Phil Carter: What do you think are some of the greatest needs facing this community going forward?
Richard Walsworth: Well infrastructure is one. Our road system in our county is in really tough shape.
There just isn’t enough money to do all the things you need to do. Roads are basic to the wellbeing of
your community. You have to have good roads to fuel your agricultural business to get your products to
market. Labor is going to be an issue as we go forward. More and more crops that are mechanized will
develop higher acreages. Weather we can keep the asparagus industry viable depends on the labor. It
really does. If we can make this government H2A program work or if our government will have an

�immigration program; the labor is there if they were able to flow back and forth. And they really don’t
want to live here, they want to come here and earn a living. Imagine living in Mexico where you make
eight dollars per day and our people here are averaging $20 or $25 an hour working up here. Yes, its hard
work! But they are being well rewarded. If we could just get the legalization system so it was easy to
work with, those people would come here and just be tickled to death and November 1 st come and they
would spend six months south of the boarder. They would really enjoy doing that.
Phil Carter: Remember that this interview will be saved for a long time. Someone will listen to this tape
50 plus years down the road, what would you most like them to know about your life and this community
right now?
Richard Walsworth: [laughs and takes time to think] How do you answer that? Well we’ve had a great life
and agriculture has been good to us. When we started, Marsh and I started out with nothing [voice
breaks] we didn’t own any land and we started with nothing! It took a long period of years. If you set a
goal, an objective, and a strategy to get there, you control 80 percent of things. The other 20 percent are
uncontrollable: weather, markets, and health those are some of the things you don’t control. But we set
goals and objectives and we’ve obtained most of them, we’ve been fortunate to both be healthy and have
worked within the parameters of the regulatory world. We’ve had a good life and I think we have a great
future. It’s different. When I was a kid in West Golden you could go down there were fifteen farmers.
Each one of them owned eighty or a hundred acre farm and supported their family. Now, probably have
got seven or eight of those farms under our banner, and were not the only ones, everyone’s bought their
neighbors out and now the scope is that you have to own a thousand acre farm in order to make a living.
Back then you could support a family on eighty to a hundred acres, but you know as times move
agriculture will become more concentrated. I think in Golden Township now there are only three or four
farmers that farm and make a living out of it. But a lot of those farms like Riley farms support four or five
families and the Furring farm two or there. It has grown to the point where you can’t do it alone you have
to have outside, additional help as well as hired help. But we have a great future and it’s a good place,
everybody is a family. Rural country, yet we got access to everything everybody else has got. Now we
got wheels. It used to be back in the 20s [re-word] I can remember when we to high school and my
brother Don wanted to play and my folks said “No way are we going to drive to Hart to get you after
basketball, that’s five miles.” So you know, now my grandkids have never rode a school bus, mom and
dad take them to school every day and that’s just the way it is. But we didn’t do that.
Phil Carter: Any advice for a young person that might listen to this tape?
Richard Walsworth: In what respect?
Phil Carter: I’ll throw the ball back in your court? What advice would you give to your grandkids?
Richard Walsworth: First thing you got to do is get an education. Education is the key. If you have an
education then you can open the doors. Once you get the door open you set goals and objectives and
build a long term plan and try to seek it. You have to focus on them and try to complete them. Success
doesn’t happen overnight. It takes a series of events over life, some you earn and some are given to you.
If you got your help then you have everything. There’s a future, but you have to plan for it. Good things
don’t just happen to you. They happen because of your initiative. How your peers view you and
community a lot of times is included whether you’re successful or not. There are people who can do
things to help you if they want to; sometimes it’s not even monetary help.

�Phil Carter: Would it be safe to say that your advice in general might be playing your work and work you’re
playing?
Richard Walsworth: There you go, that’s just about it.
Phil Carter: Anything else you will like to share in closing up?
Richard Walsworth: Well, life is a series of good things at different stages. First get started and have a
family. The older generations leaves and now were the older generation, so it’s been a great life. I’ve had
a good life [voice breaks] been a good one.
Phil Carter: Okay, Dick Walsworth, thank you very much for your time and for sharing memories with us
this concludes the interview.
SPANISH TRANSLATION
Phil Carter: Este es Phil Carter y estoy aquí, hoy, con Dick Walsworth, en la biblioteca de Hart en Hart
Michigan el día es 18 de Junio de 2016. Esta historia oral ha sido recogida como parte del creciente
proyecto comunitario. Cual es apoyado en parte por una donación del Programa de Patrimonio Común
vía el Fondo Nacional para las Humanidades (FNH). Gracias Dick por tomarse el tiempo para hablar
conmigo hoy, estoy interesado en aprender más sobre la historia de su familia y sus experiencias en vivir
y trabajar en el condado de Oceanía. ¿Puede por favor decirme su nombre completo y deletrearlo?
Richard Walsworth: Richard Walsworth, R-I-C-H-A-R-D W-A-L-S-W-O-R-T-H.
Phil Carter: ¿Y no usas ningún acento cuando deletreas tu nombre?
Richard Walsworth: No.
Phil Carter: Háblame de dónde creciste.
Richard Walsworth: Crecí en el Municipio de Oro en el condado de Oceanía. Pasé toda mi vida en ese
municipio. Excepto un período corto cuando fui a la universidad. Aparte de eso, pasé toda mi vida en el
Municipio de Oro.
Phil Carter: ¿Quiénes son los miembros de su familia y podría darme sus nombres?
Richard Walsworth: Mis padres fueron Walter y Anna Walsworth, ambos fallecidos. Tengo una hermana,
Joyce Ensing, y dos hermanos que están viviendo, Donald y Kenny Walsworth. Y tengo un hermano, James
Walsworth, que falleció también.
Phil Carter: Gracias. ¿Cuáles son algunos de sus recuerdos más vividos de su vida de niño?
Richard Walsworth: Bueno, crecimos en una granja. Mis padres acababan de pasar por la depresión. Eso
sin duda dejó un fuerte sentimiento en sus corazones sobre cómo los niños crecieron. Crecimos como
niños pobres, pero no fuimos más pobres que el vecino de al lado. No mucha gente en nuestra área tenía
mucho en esa época, la década de los novecientos cuarentas. La agricultura era una forma de vida, no
era para hacer dinero sino hacer comida y fibra. Siempre tuvimos mucho para comer viviendo en una
granja. En ese sentido vivimos muy bien. Probablemente mejor que algunos de nuestros homólogos de
la ciudad. Todos trabajamos en la granja. La familia trabajaba como un grupo, usualmente teníamos
proyectos para toda la familia. Teníamos una parcela de encurtidos y esa parcela de encurtidos siempre
fue diseñada para financiar algo para la granja. Como una nueva caldera para la casa, o armarios para la

�cocina, o la que más recuerdo es cuando compramos una televisión por 550 dólares en mil novecientos
cincuenta. Se podía comprar un automóvil, uno nuevo, por 1,500 dólares en esa época. Así que cuando
se piensas de eso en el presente, la relación entre el costo de una televisión y un coche es notable. La
televisión era por supuesto blanca y negro la compramos de la ferretería Brisinski aquí en Hart.
Proporcionó una tremenda oportunidad de entretenimiento para la familia.
Phil Carter: ¿Tu padre era granjero?
Richard Walsworth: Sí.
Phil Carter: ¿Y tu abuelo?
Richard Walsworth: Mi abuelo era lo que yo llamaría un arrendatario. Vivió toda su vida en el área del
antiguo condado de Shana, trabajó para Hombre Contractado, su último año fue con Hawley's Semillero,
Monroe Hawley, aquí en la ciudad. Mi padre en su adolescencia vivió en la granja de Hawley y toda la
familia trabajó para Hawley en la zona. Mi papá se trasladó al municipio de Oro en mil novecientos veinte
y seis.
Phil Carter: ¿Tu bisabuelo también nació en el condado de Oceanía o él era un inmigrante?
Richard Walsworth: ... [pausa y suspiro] sabes que no sé la respuesta a eso.
Phil Carter: Bien, eso no es un problema. Cuando viniste aquí al condado de Oceanía. Y como has dicho,
has vivido aquí toda tu vida. Usted ha dado un poco de su impresión fresca de lo que era vivir en el
condado de Oceanía. Como un niño creciendo, ¿cuál fue su primera impresión de la zona? ¿Era un lugar
agradable para vivir? ¿Lo odias? ¿Es algo que acaba de soportar?
Richard Walsworth: Bueno, el Municipio de Oro y esta área siempre ha sido un buen lugar para vivir en
los primeros años. No me disgustaba tanto como mis padres. Recuerdo que en los últimos años de los mil
novecientos cuarentas en una zona rural en el invierno fue difícil a vivir. Quiero decir que fue duro. Muchas
veces estuvimos sin carreteras cinco o diez días. Puedo recordar transportar leche en un barco de piedra,
los vecinos tendrían dos o tres tractores juntos e intentaríamos sacar la leche hasta la esquina de Bob
Williams donde el lechero vendría a levantar la leche. A mis padres, mi mamá en especialmente,
realmente no le gustaba vivir tan lejos de la calle principal. Sabes que cuando fuimos niños veríamos al
lechero y al cartero solamente. Teníamos rutas de grava y esas dos personas muchas veces fueron el único
tráfico que veríamos durante todo el día. Esto fue en los finando años de los mil novecientos cuarentas y
los principios de mil novecientos cincuentas. Pero en cuanto la zona va es un gran lugar para vivir. Tuvimos
una buena oportunidad. Nadamos en el lago de Michigan y pescamos los lagos locales. Y nosotros, los
niños, vivimos en el (Marlbed) cuando éramos jóvenes. Mi hermano Don era un gran pescador. Siempre
lo seguí de cerca, pero la pesca nunca la conseguí.
Phil Carter: ¿Don es mayor que tú?
Richard Walsworth: Don es cuatro años mayor. Sí. Era un buen mentor.
Phil Carter: ¿Hay algún recuerdo particular sobre vivir aquí, tal vez recuerdos adicionales; Pensamientos
o momentos que son especiales y memorable para usted? ¿Bueno o malo? Mencionaste algunos de los
buenos, ¿hay otros?
Richard Walsworth: Bueno [pausa para pensar] Probablemente el más difícil fue que hubo un período de
unos años en que el polio estaba corriendo desenfrenadamente. Nunca aprendí a nadar porque mi mamá
dijo que no iba a nadar porque había un riesgo de polio. Ahora eso parece restrictivo, pero en ese tiempo

�todos conocíamos a alguien que tenía polio. Bueno, mi suegro tenía polio. Nunca vi a Bob caminar. Eso
continuó durante muchos años. Yo estaba en la secundaria, pienso que fui estudiantes de primer año,
cuando llegó la vacuna Salk. Esa fue una serie de vacunas que tomamos. [¿Creo que fueron tiros?] Y luego
más tarde una cosa de refuerzo. Pero eso realmente cambió la forma en que la comunidad interactuó
durante un buen número de años. Creo que fue como 10 o 12 años. Bob tuvo polio a principios de los mil
novecientos cuarentas y no puedo conseguir la vacuna hasta los cincuenta y cincos o cincuenta y seis.
Phil Carter: Gracias.
Phil Carter: ¿Y otra vez, Bob era su suegro? ¿Cómo describiría el condado de Oceanía a alguien que nunca
había estado aquí antes?
Richard Walsworth: Chico... tiene un montón de… [cambio de pensamiento] cuando piensas en la realidad
que está rodeado por los Grandes Lagos; usted tienes los Grandes Lagos, tienes las dunas, y tenemos
muchos lagos interiores. Es un gran lugar para vivir y criar una familia. Ahora estamos tan cerca, con
buenas carreteras, que puede estar en Ludington en 20 minutos o Muskegon en 35 minutos. Usted puede
vivir en el país, disfrutar de la vida rural, y tener acceso a todo. Lo único que está a corto sería los artes y
actuaciones. Si quieres ver un buen rendimiento tienes que ir a Grand Rapids o ahora puedes ir a
Manistee, tienen talento allí. Esa es probablemente la única venida corta de la vida rural. Tienes que viajar
para encontrar los artes.
Phil Carter: Usted mencionó algunas de las maneras en que el área ha cambiado con el tiempo. ¿Hay otras
cosas que sean vividas de ese cambio?
Richard Walsworth: Bueno, en el mundo de la agricultura. Mi papá empezó con caballos. En mil
novecientos veinte y seis, cuando vino aquí, era estrictamente caballos. Cultivó toda su vida y vivió cien
años y seis meses. Dirigió tractores para mí, tractores de 120 caballos y terreno tierra para plantar maíz
para mí cuando tenía unos ochenta años. Cuando piensas en lo que sucedió en su vida es casi increíble. Y
probablemente cuando gane otros 20 años, miraré hacia atrás y diré “¡mira lo que ocurrió en mi vida!”
Cuando estaba en la escuela secundaria, compramos nuestro primer tractor nuevo en los años mil
novecientos cincuentas. Estábamos en la lista de espera por 3 años después de la segunda guerra mundial
para conseguir un H-Farmall. Y compramos ese tractor y tres o cuatro piezas de equipo por 2,600 dólares.
Mi mamá dijo: "Siempre tuvimos dinero hasta que finalmente conseguimos un tractor.” Después de eso
dijo, "Gastamos todo nuestro dinero en maquinaria." Pero los cambios que han tenido en la agricultura...
en los primeros años si no fueras suficientemente inteligente como para hacer otra cosa, eras un granjero.
Esa era la imagen que tenían los agricultores. Eso, si no pudieras hacer otra cosa, podrías ser un granjero.
Hoy en día, eso ciertamente no es el caso. Tienes que estar bien educado y dispuesto a aceptar la
tecnología. Me sorprende ver cómo la tecnología ha llegado a la agricultura desde el año dos mil. Recuerdo
cuando estaban hablando de cómo todo iba a ser dirigido por software de computadoras. Dije: "las
computadoras y la tierra nunca van a funcionarán". Y yo no estaba más equivocado. Porque ahora las
computadoras son tan techincal que no hago ninguna pulverización más. Si no puede ejecutar una
computadora fácilmente y jugar con ella, a continuación, pulverizando está todo hecho computarizado,
no se puede hacer otramente. Todo es computarizado. Pero es bueno. Quiero decir que las computadoras
aumentan la producción y la capacidad de producir diez veces, ya sabes.
Phil Carter: ¿Puede describir un poco más sobre el tipo de agricultura que su familia hace, usted sabe,
cultivos específicos, hectáreas, y número de empleados, ese tipo de cosas?

�Richard Walsworth: Bueno, yo crecí como el hijo de un lechero. Mi papá ordenó vacas hasta los sesenta y
tres, cuando Marsh y yo nos casamos. Compramos una granja cerca de Hart. Justo fuera de Hart, 2 millas
en la Avenida 60. Mi madre quería acercarse a la ciudad, así que hicimos arreglos. Se trasladaron a la casa
de una nueva granja. Marsh y yo nos alojamos en la granja de casa y mi padre vendió las vacas lecheras y
puso todo el dinero en la casa para remodelaciones, fue un montón de dinero, unos miles de dólares, pero
sabes que compramos la granja y 80 hectáreas con una decente casa y un buen estable por 1,200 dólares
en mil novecientos sesenta y seis.
Phil Carter: [impresionado con el precio] UUUUU!
Richard Walsworth: En realidad en sesenta y dos, Marsh y yo compramos la propiedad en el año antes de
nuestro matrimonio. Y así se retiró papá en alrededor de mil novecientos sesenta y cinco y yo fui a trabajar
para Dupont y trabajé para Dupont forma sesenta y cuatro hasta setenta y dos. Cuando mi papá se retiró
alquilamos la granja a Wilberdy Rider y Wanye Sapphire por un tiempo de seis o ocho años. En sesenta y
ocho plantamos nuestros primeros asperges. Como un parche de tres hectáreas. Las asperges estaban
realmente ganando popularidad y la agricultura era muy dura en esa era, comodidades, como la leche y
la carne y todo eso era estaban realmente barato. Entonces era muy difícil ganarse la vida en una granja.
Así que le dijimos: "Bueno, probaremos las asperges.” Y plantamos asperges casi todos los años después
del sesenta y ocho. En el momento en que estábamos en la mitad de los años setentas estábamos
probablemente en la proximidad de 80 hectáreas. Y asperja era 62 centavos y hoy 76 centavos. Así que si
conviertes los dólares, el asperge era realmente valioso. Desde mediados de los años setenta hasta
principios de los ochenta era realmente fácil comprar tierra y pagarla. Porque usted podría comprar la
tierra en ese tiempo por 300, 400, a 500 dólar por acre. Y asperges... las variedades que estábamos
utilizando entonces estábamos recolectando alrededor de 2,000 libras por hectárea. A 60 centavos era
1,200 dólares que podrían capturar 1,000 dólares, fue un excelente negocio. Y asperges se quedó bien...
se quedó muy bien hasta finales de los años mil novecientos noventas antes de que los Peruanos se
convirtieran en un factor. Bueno, hubo algunos acuerdos de libre comercio, el TLCAN y el CAFTA y algunos
de los que surgieron. Básicamente dio nuestros mercados a nuestros competidores extranjeros y
realmente ha cambiado el mundo de asperges. En una época Washington tenía 32,000 hectáreas, ahora
están abajo a cerca de 6,000 hectáreas. California tenía más de 40,000 hectáreas, ahora están a 8,000 o
9,000 y Michigan tenía 20,000 hectáreas y estamos cerca de la mitad hoy. Realmente ha cambiado la
industria. La industria de Michigan fue procesada principalmente, aproximadamente el 85% procesó hasta
aproximadamente 2005 o 2006. Entonces comenzamos a desarrollar una infraestructura, en el estado,
para las líneas de embalaje. Ahora tenemos cerca de tres o cuatro instalaciones en el condado de Oceanía
que procesan espárragos frescos para las grandes cadenas de tiendas. Y lo que ahora la industria en
Michigan es probablemente la mitad fresca y la otra mitad procesada. Y fresca de lejos es la mejor. Sabes,
fresca es aproximadamente un dólar por libra, lo otro es lo que llamamos peso de la puerta de cola.
Procesado es de unos 75 centavos para cortes y propinas y un centavo o más para lanzas. El otro
componente que realmente hizo que sea mejor es las nuevas variedades que han entrado desde alrededor
de los años dos mil que han más que duplicado el rendimiento. No es raro ahora tener 5,000 promedios
por libras, donde de vuelta en el día la meta fue de 2,000 libras. La mayor producción por hectárea, eso
es lo que nos mantuvo en los negocios, sino a lo contrario estaríamos en problemas.

�Phil Carter: En un momento... [Cambio de pensamiento] ¿Así que su granja se llama Granja de Oro?
Cuéntame un poco sobre tu operación de carne de vacuno en la que estuviste por un tiempo.
Richard Walsworth: Sí, teníamos ganado en nuestra granja, creo, desde mil novecientos treinta y dos hasta
aproximadamente dos mil dos, nunca estuvimos sin ganado. Mi padre fue ganadero toda su vida.
Teníamos muchas vacas lecheras y luego criamos ganado y después cerdos. Y en los mil setenta y nueve
construí un corral para engordar y una nueva ensiladora. Alimentamos ganado desde mil setenta y nueve
hasta los principios de dos mil. Nunca realmente hizo dinero, era tan competitivo. Primero en el mundo
de la agricultura, los pollos fueron a la producción en masa. Entonces el cerdo fue la producción en masa.
Y las grandes granjas de ganado a los finales de mil novecientos ochenta se hicieron prominentes en el
Oeste. No necesariamente en Michigan, hubo algunos, pero los estados occidentales cuando que se
convirtieron en tan grande centros comerciales, su margen por cabeza fue tan poco que usted
simplemente no podía competir. Casi no hay... no conozco una operación de carne comercial en nuestro
condado hoy. Hay algunas personas que tienen cinco, diez o quince cabezas. Y nosotros teníamos un
corral con una capacidad de 180 cabezas y lo giramos cada diez meses. Funcionó. Pagamos las facturas e
hicimos un poco de dinero, pero en relación, con el trabajo que estábamos poniendo en él lo
discontinuamos.
Phil Carter: ¿Hubo otros vegetales que cultivaste más que espárragos? ¿Cómo maíz, frijoles, patatas, o
algo así?
Richard Walsworth: Nuestro plan de cultivo actual para los últimos años ha sido principalmente
espárragos porque ahí es donde se hace el dinero. Actualmente tenemos cerca de 280 hectáreas de
espárragos. Crece generalmente como 350 a 400 hectáreas de maíz, 80 hectáreas de frijoles de soya. Y
los frijoles de soya son relativamente nuevos en este lugar, y los hemos estado creciendo probablemente
durante los últimos diez años. Han desarrollado variedades que hacen mejor en la zona del norte y más
cerca del lago. No conseguimos el sol aquí en la parte central, pero ahora tienen algunas variedades que
crecen aquí también. Ahora podemos cultivar 50 bultos de frijoles, y si están bajo el agua es más cerca de
60. Así que hace una buena mezcla, pero en el último corte el espárrago es donde realmente hacemos
nuestro dinero.
Phil Carter: Cuando hablabas de submarino, ¿te refieres al riego?
Richard Walsworth: Sí, el centro [no podía entender]
Phil Carter: ¿Para curar o purificar eso?
Richard Walsworth: Sí
Phil Carter: Has hablado mucho de lo que ha sido cuando empezaste; usted ha hablado de cómo ha sido
y cómo ha cambiado. Y creo que usted probablemente haz hablado de algunos de los desafíos que se han
enfrentado como un productor. Cuéntame un poco sobre tu situación de empleado en tu granja.

�Richard Walsworth: En los primeros años contratamos a mujeres locales para la cosecha de espárragos.
Mi esposa era un líder de equipo y eso está de vuelta cuando teníamos 80 hectáreas. Tendríamos
alrededor de diez o doce personas, todas las amas fueron de casas locales. Como los tiempos han
cambiado la mayoría de las amas locales ahora están en la fuerza de trabajo, no hay un montón de mujeres
que no tienen un trabajo en este día y edad. Así que comenzamos a los principios de mil novecientos
noventa cambiando la mano de obra para los migrantes y hoy contratamos a 35 migrantes y le proveemos
vivienda. Tenemos cuatro casas donde la mayoría de ellos viven en la granja. El trabajo manual es uno de
nuestros problemas muy serios. La inmigración o la falta de acción política de inmigración al nivel federal
es realmente lo que es difícil. Hay unos programas como el H2A donde se puede utilizar mano de obra
extranjera. Algunos productores se ven obligados a hacerlo, pero es muy engorroso. Es un poco caro
también. Creo que tal vez aclare algunas de esas cuestiones. Vamos a tener que hacer más de la mano de
obra en alta mar porque hay cada vez menos emigrantes y se están haciendo más y más educados y son
menos propensos a hacer trabajo de campo. La generación que está haciendo trabajo de campo está
envejeciendo. Y a medida que eliminan del sistema de trabajo, las próximas generaciones han obtenido
por lo menos la educación secundaria y muchos de ellos educación más allá de eso. No van a hacer trabajo
de campo.
Phil Carter: Dick, ¿cuáles son algunas de las mejores cosas en su mente acerca de ser un cultivador?
Richard Walsworth: [suspiro, seguido por pensar en pausa] ha sido una buena vida. Es un reto. Pero la
economía siempre ha sido suficientemente buena como para hacer un buen trabajo. Y el espárrago es una
de esas cosas que no es fácil. Si fuera fácil, todo el mundo lo haría. No es fácil, créeme. Hay algunas cosas
críticas, culturalmente, que tienes que hacer bien. Primero usted tiene que hacer un buen trabajo de
establecer sus camas. Utilizar buenas prácticas culturales para obtener la producción máxima. El otro
componente es ¿puedes controlar la ayuda? Y mucha gente no puede manejar su ayuda. Debido a que
estamos tratando con ayuda que no es lo que usted llamaría la ayuda mainstream (popular). Incluso los
migrantes que han estado aquí diez o quince años, si tienen sus conexiones alineadas están trabajando
para Eral Peterson, o Indian Summers o algún lugar en un ambiente más controlado. Por lo tanto, es un
reto mantener su ayuda feliz. ¿Y cómo consigues que treintas personas trabajen durante ocho semanas
del año? Ya sabes. Es difícil.
Phil Carter: Y para aclarar, ¿Eral Peterson y Indian Summer son procesadores de frutas y hortalizas en el
condado?
Sí. Richard Walsworth: Sí ellos son.
Phil Carter: ¿Cuáles son algunas de las responsabilidades especiales que tiene como agricultor?
Richard Walsworth: Las cuestiones reglamentarias son una enorme responsabilidad. Seguridad
alimentaria... Nunca creí que íbamos a ver el nivel de las cosas reglamentarias que usted tiene que hacer
para cumplir con la seguridad alimentaria. Inspección por parte de los terceros, ahora, antes de entregar

�al determinado procesador requieren inspecciones de terceros. Lo que significa es visitas a la granja y hay
un montón de cosas que tienes que hacer bien para pasar la inspección, o su comprador no aceptará su
producto. Problemas reglamentarios no sólo en el mundo de la inocuidad de los alimentos, sino también
en los productos químicos que utiliza en su operación. Productos químicos sin etiqueta no son aceptables,
usted tiene que asegurarse de que todos sus productos químicos están etiquetados y correctamente
utilizados, porque todo el mundo puede comprobar con una mara de equis. Y usted tiene que suministrar
todos esos datos a sus procesadores antes de que reciban su producto.
Phil Carter: ¿La vivienda para su ayuda migratoria ha sido un problema?
Richard Walsworth: Sí lo a sido. Hemos tenido vivienda desde mil novecientos ochenta y ocho. Hemos
agregado otra casa el año pasado. Alojamiento es una necesidad. Si no tiene vivienda, no puede controlar
a sus trabajadores. Porque no están allí cuando los necesitas. Buena vivienda construye la lealtad y usted
tiene que tiene buena vivienda. Los días de la vivienda en condiciones deficientes se han ido. Usted
necesita buena vivienda para mantener sus trabajadores felices.
Phil Carter: Has dicho que has estado haciendo esto toda su vida, ¿esto ha sido 50 años más, supongo?
Richard Walsworth: Sí, este es nuestro 48 año de plantar espárragos.
Phil Carter: Dick, ¿qué haces para relajarte y socializar?
Richard Walsworth: Oh chico... [se ríe] solo viajamos, hemos ido a Florida durante los últimos 20 años
para el mes de Febrero. Tengo una motocicleta. Voy en mi moto algunos días, pero no es una alta prioridad
conmigo. Me gusta montar, pero el riesgo de montar una motocicleta supera el disfruto.
Phil Carter: ¿Hay lugares o instituciones más allá de su finca que son importantes para usted y que son
importantes para usted en el Condado de Oceanía?
Richard Walsworth: Bueno, sí. He estado en el consejo de directores con la empresa de Energía de los
Grandes Lagos durante unos 30 años. Me estoy jubilando en Agosto de este año y que ha sido una
experiencia maravillosa para mí. Una experiencia de aprendizaje y creo que hice una diferencia en nuestra
cooperativa. Hemos combinado cuatro cooperativas juntas y se ha convertido a la Energía de los Grandes
Lagos. Durante mis 30 años con la compañía, serví 24 años en el consejo de administración de Wolverine:
Suministro de Energía, que es el proveedor de energía para los Grandes Lagos, y es la cooperativa que
suministra energía a todo el Condado de Oceanía, con la excepción de las ciudades, de lo contrario
abastecemos a todas las zonas rurales. Y he sido presidente de Energía de los Grandes Lagos durante los
últimos cuatro años y presidente del Wolverine durante los últimos cuatro años. Ambos terminarán en
Agosto.
Phil Carter: ¿Hay alguna otra organización en la que participes? ¿Hablas con, trabajas con, o representas
organizaciones de agricultores?

�Richard Walsworth: Bueno, he sido miembro del Departamento de Granja desde que estaba sin pañales
[ríe]. Es de esperar que si usted es un agricultor deba ser miembro del Departamento de la Granja, es una
voz muy importante para la industria agrícola al nivel estatal y nacional. He sido miembro durante todo el
tiempo que puedo recordar. Yo era miembro de MACAMA, que es el programa de marketing del
departamento patrocinó. Tienen bajo el privilegio de la ley de negociar los precios de los cultivadores y
las condiciones de entrega.
Phil Carter: ¿Y eso es para procesar espárragos?
Richard Walsworth: Sí, para procesar espárragos. Yo era presidente de ese comité de mercadeo por al
menos 15 años, tal vez 20 años. Me retiré de eso hace unos años y vendí la granja a mi hijo en dos mil
cinco. Ahora él está en ese comité de mercadotecnia.
Phil Carter: ¿No era presidente de eso?
Richard Walsworth: Creo que sí que ha sido presidente de eso... MACIMA y la capacidad de negociar con
los procesadores es probablemente la razón principal de la industria de los espárragos ha tenido éxito.
Hemos negociado precios favorables para los productores en Michigan y algunos años en condiciones
difíciles debido a la competencia internacional, pero todavía mantuvo la industria viable. Tuvimos algunos
años difíciles, pero la industria de hoy está realmente en muy buena forma. Y aquí estamos el pasado fin
de semana al término de la temporada y todo el mundo sigue comprando espárragos y comiéndolo... así
que fuimos muy afortunados.
Phil Carter: Miremos hacia el futuro ahora; ¿cuáles son algunas de las esperanzas para el futuro para ti y
Marsha?
Richard Walsworth: Bueno... [se ríe histéricamente] la salud sería primera supongo. Estoy oficialmente
jubilado. Todavía hago mucho trabajo en la granja, pero no trabajo manual. Ryan es realmente bueno en
la asignación de proyectos para mí si tenemos que construir una casa de migrantes o poner un sistema de
riego, él dirá, "usted se ocupa de eso para mí." Lo mantengo en el lazo y le digo, "aquí es cuánto dinero
vas a tener que escribir un cheque para.” Eso es una buena válvula de seguridad para mí. Así que ha sido
bueno.
Phil Carter: ¿Háblame de su familia, sus hijos y miembros?
Richard Walsworth: Bueno, tengo un hijo, Ryan, que ha comprado la granja, él y su esposa Janise. Tienen
dos chicas. Uno acaba de graduarse de la escuela secundaria y la otra tiene un año de universidad, ambos
van a la Universidad de Cornerstone. Y el hijo de Janise y Ryan tiene 27 años; Está fuera de la universidad
y trabaja como ingeniero en Grand Rapids. Y tengo una hija en Nueva York, tiene dos hijos.
Phil Carter: La última pregunta dice: "¿Quiere que sus hijos entraran en esta línea de trabajo"?

�Richard Walsworth: Ryan es de la tercera generación y tal vez [pausa para reír] cuando sus hijas se casan,
así vamos a obtener una cuarta. Pero en este punto ninguno de ellos tiene mucho interés en la granja,
pero ya sabes cuándo Ryan salió de la universidad, yo estaba en alrededor de cuarenta años, supongo que
era. Y sabes que realmente no tuve una operación suficientemente grande para dos personas. Y le dije:
"va al mundo real y tal vez encuentras algo que realmente te gusta." Entró en la fuerza de trabajo durante
unos diez años y luego regresó a la granja en mil novecientos noventa y tres. Comenzó algunos proyectos
de plantación de algunos espárragos. Tuvo la oportunidad de alquilar algún tipo de espárragos de Ed
Johnson en Cadillac. Comenzó un poco a poco a plantar los suyos. Probablemente tenía de 70 a 80
hectáreas de espárragos propios. Luego tuvimos una empresa conjunta, alquilamos 75 hectáreas de Larry
Snyder por el aeropuerto de Shell. Cuando me retiré ese proyecto flotó en su canasta. Ahora él ha
plantado pesadamente los últimos cuatro a cinco años, en realidad diez años ahora, porque él ha estado
a la granja veinte años ahora. Ha estado en posesión durante doce años. Él se puso a jugar y tomo un
riesgo cuando plantó una gran cantidad de la variedad Canadiense, y el milenio que era un desconocido.
Pero se convirtió en un ganador. Quiero decir que está gritando muy bien. Y tiene muchas hectáreas, así
que lo está haciendo bien, haciendo más mejor de lo que yo nunca hice.
Phil Carter: ¿Cuáles cree que son algunas de las mayores necesidades que enfrenta esta comunidad en el
futuro?
Richard Walsworth: Bueno, la infraestructura es una. Nuestro sistema de carreteras en nuestro condado
está en una forma muy dura. Simplemente no hay suficiente dinero para hacer todas las cosas que hay
que hacer. Las carreteras son básicas para el bienestar de la comunidad. Usted tiene que tener buenos
caminos para alimentar su negocio agrícola para obtener sus productos al mercado. La labor va a ser un
problema a medida que avanzamos. Cada vez más cultivos que se mecanizan desarrollarán mayores
hectáreas. El tiempo que podemos mantener la industria de los espárragos viable depende de la mano de
obra. Realmente lo hace. Si podemos hacer que este programa H2A del gobierno funcione o si nuestro
gobierno tendrá un programa de inmigración; El trabajo está allí sí pudrieran fluir de un lado al otro. Y
realmente no quieren vivir aquí, quieren venir aquí y ganarse la vida. Imagine vivir en México donde gana
$8 dólares al día y nuestra gente aquí tiene un promedio de $20 o $25 por hora trabajando aquí. Sí, el
trabajo es duro! Pero están siendo bien recompensados. Si pudiéramos obtener el sistema de legalización
de manera que fuera más fácil trabajar con ellos, esas personas vendrían aquí y sólo serían cosquillas
hasta el primero de Noviembre y llegarían a pasar seis meses al sur de la frontera. Realmente disfrutarían
haciendo eso.
Phil Carter: Recuerda que esta entrevista se va guardar durante mucho tiempo. Alguien va a escuchar esta
cinta 50 años más en el camino, ¿qué es lo que más les gustaría saber sobre su vida y esta comunidad en
este momento?
Richard Walsworth: [se ríe y toma tiempo para pensar] ¿Cómo respondes a eso? Bueno, hemos tenido
una gran vida y la agricultura ha sido buena para nosotros. Cuando empezamos, Marsh y yo empezamos
con nada [pausa de voz] ¡no teníamos tierra y empezamos con nada! Tomó un largo período de años. Si

�establece una meta, un objetivo, y una estrategia para llegar allí, tú controlas 80 por ciento de las cosas.
El otro 20 por ciento son incontrolables: el clima, los mercados, y la salud son algunas de las cosas que no
controlas. Pero establecimos metas y objetivos, y hemos obtenido la mayoría de ellos; hemos tenido la
suerte de estar sanos y de haber trabajado dentro de los parámetros del mundo regulador. Hemos tenido
una buena vida y creo que tenemos un gran futuro. Es diferente. Cuando yo era un niño en Oeste de Oro
podías bajar allí y había como quince agricultores. Cada uno de ellos poseía una granja de 80 o 100
hectáreas y apoyaba a su familia. Ahora, probablemente nosotros hemos conseguido siete u ocho de esas
granjas debajo de nuestra bandera, y no eran las únicas, cada uno compró a sus vecinos hacia fuera y
ahora el alcance es que usted tiene que poseer una granja de mil acres para ganarse la vida. En ese
entonces usted podría apoyar a una familia en 80 a 100 hectáreas, pero cómo los tiempos se mueven la
agricultura se concentrará más. Creo que en el Municipio de Oro ahora hay sólo tres o cuatro agricultores
en la granja y ganan la vida fuera de ella. Pero muchas de esas granjas, como las granjas de Riley, apoyan
a cuatro o cinco familias y la granja Furring dos o allí. Ha crecido hasta el punto en el que la agricultura no
puede hacerlo solo tiene que tener ayuda adicional, como la ayuda contratada. Pero tenemos un gran
futuro y es un buen lugar, todo el mundo es una familia. País rural, sin embargo, tenemos acceso a que
todo lo que los demás tienen. Ahora tenemos ruedas. Solía estar de vuelta en la década de los mil
novecientos veintes, yo puedo recordar cuando llegamos a la escuela secundaria. Mi hermano Don quería
jugar al baloncesto y mis padres le dijeron "No hay manera que vamos a conducir a Hart para conseguir
después del baloncesto, ¡que es cinco millas!” Así que ya sabes, ahora mis nietos nunca han montado en
un autobús escolar, mamá y papá los llevan a la escuela todos los días y así es. Pero mi generación no
hicimos eso.
Phil Carter: ¿Tienes algún consejo para un joven que pueda escuchar esta cinta?
Richard Walsworth: ¿En qué sentido?
Phil Carter: Voy a tirar la pelota en tu cancha, ¿Qué consejo les daría a sus nietos?
Richard Walsworth: Lo primero que tienes que hacer es obtener una educación. La educación es la clave.
Si tienes una educación entonces puedes abrir las puertas. A vez que usted consigue la puerta abierta
usted fija las metas, los objetivos, y construye un plan. A largo plazo y trata de buscarlo. Tienes que
concentrarte en tus planes y tratar de completarlos. El éxito no sucede de la noche a la mañana. Toma
una serie de acontecimientos sobre la vida algunos usted gana, y algunos se dan a usted. Si consiguió su
ayuda entonces usted tiene todo. Hay un futuro, pero hay que planificarlo. Las cosas buenas no le pasan
a usted, pero pasan cuando usted sucede por su iniciativa. La forma en que tus compañeros te ven y la
comunidad, muchas veces, se incluye si eres exitoso o no. Hay personas que pueden hacer cosas para
ayudarte si quieren—a veces ni siquiera es ayuda monetaria.
Phil Carter: ¿Sería seguro decir que su consejo en general puede ser jugar su trabajo y trabaja lo que estás
jugando?
Richard Walsworth: Ahí tienes, eso es todo.

�Phil Carter: ¿Algo más que le gustaría compartir al cerrar?
Richard Walsworth: Bueno, la vida es una serie de cosas buenas en diferentes etapas. En primero
empiezas una familia. Las generaciones mayores se van y ahora eran la generación más vieja, así que ha
sido una gran vida. He tenido una buena vida (pausa de voz), ha sido buena.
Phil Carter: Bien, Dick Walsworth, muchas gracias por su tiempo y por compartir con nosotros sus
recuerdos, esto concluye la entrevista.

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                  <text>Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Growing Community: A Century of Migration in Oceana County." This project was a collaboration between El Centro Hispano de Oceana, the Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society, and Grand Valley State University funded by a Common Heritage grant from the United States National Endowment for the Humanities. The materials in this collection document the history of communities in Hart, Shelby, and Walkerville and explore themes of migration, labor, religion, family, belonging, national and cultural identities, regional, national, and international connections, and citizenship.</text>
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                  <text>Shelby (Mich.)</text>
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              <text>Dick Walsworth es un granjero local del condado de Oceanía. La historia de su vida destaca los desafíos relacionados con mantener su negocio agrícola, en gran parte la industria de los espárragos, viable y competitiva con el reto de las fuerzas emergentes del mercado global. En esta entrevista, Walsworth comparte su testimonio de los cambios sociales, culturales, tecnológicos, e industriales que han ocurrido en el área de Oceanía desde su juventud. Este rico relato histórico, de la perspectiva de un agricultor local—con una vida de experiencia en el mundo agrícola, representa los retos que tenemos por delante en el futuro para mantener viva nuestra producción de granjas y hortalizas. Walsworth declara que el futuro depende de la mano de obra migrante, cada vez más escasa, ya que "las próximas generaciones están por lo menos recibiendo educación secundaria y no van a hacer trabajo de campo." La profunda preocupación por la política de inmigración, o la falta de políticas gubernamentales, lo hacen más difícil a las empresas locales para mantener su flujo de trabajo constante y consistente en comparación con las necesidades de la industria al nivel estatal y nacional.</text>
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Espárragos&#13;
Póliza de inmigración &#13;
Industria &#13;
Labor migrante &#13;
TLCAN &#13;
Condado de Oceanía     &#13;
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                <text>Oral history interview with Richard Walsworth. Interviewed by Phil Carter. Hart, Michigan. English language. June 18, 2016. Dick Walsworth is a local farmer from Oceana County.  His life story highlights the challenges of maintaining his agricultural business, largely the asparagus industry, viable and competitive with the challenge of emerging global market forces.  In this interview, Walsworth shares his testimony of the social, cultural, technologic, and industrial changes that have occurred in the Oceana area since his youth.  This rich historical account from the perspective of a local farmer with a lifetime of experience in the agricultural world depicts the challenges ahead in the future to keep our farms and vegetables production alive.  To this Walsworth declares that the future depends on migrant labor which is becoming increasingly short on supply since "the next generations are at least getting a high school education  [...] they're not going to do field work."  Walsworth also shares his deep concern with immigration policy, or lack of governmental policy, that makes it harder on local businesses to keep their labor flow steady and consistent compared to the needs of the industry in a state and national level.</text>
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                <text>Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History</text>
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            <description>An entity responsible for making the resource available</description>
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                <text>Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan</text>
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                <text>"Growing Community" (NEH Common Heritage)</text>
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            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
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                <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/"&gt;In Copyright&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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            <name>Language</name>
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                <text>eng</text>
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                  <text>Richard Platte Red Arrow Division collection</text>
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                  <text>Collection of photographs and a scrapbook pertaining to the 126th Infantry, 32nd (Red Arrow) Division of the U.S. Army. Sgt. Richard "Dick" Platte, of Grand Rapids, Michigan, served in the U.S. Army, 32nd Infantry "Red Arrow" Division, 126th 3rd Battalion, Headquarters Company. The company trained for the war in Europe at Camp Livingston, Louisiana in 1941 and conducted maneuvers near Camp Beauregard. In the spring of 1942 the 32nd Division sailed to the South Pacific and settled in Australia. The 126th Regiment was organized into a combat team and was the first of U.S. forces dispatched to Port Moresby in New Guinea.</text>
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                  <text>World War II</text>
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                  <text>Richard Platte Red Arrow Division collection (RHC-99)</text>
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                  <text>In Copyright</text>
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                  <text>United States. Army</text>
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                  <text>United States. Army. Infantry Division, 32nd</text>
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                  <text>United States. Army. Infantry Regiment, 126th</text>
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                  <text>World War, 1939-1945</text>
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                  <text>Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives</text>
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              <description>A related resource</description>
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                  <text>RHC-99</text>
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                  <text>Still image</text>
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              <description>A language of the resource</description>
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                <text>Walter Plaska, Richard Platte and Stephen Kraut, 1941</text>
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                <text>Three members of the Headquarters Company, 126th Infantry, photographed at Camp Livingston, Louisiana. Left to right: Walter Plaska, Richard Platte, Stephen Kraut</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/635"&gt;Richard Platte Red Arrow Division Collection, (RHC-99)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/"&gt;In Copyright&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>eng</text>
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                <text>World War II</text>
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                  <text>Faces of Grand Valley</text>
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                  <text>A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community.</text>
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                  <text>GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files</text>
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