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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: World War II
Interviewee: Henry Vandermeer

Length of Interview: 00:40:27
Background
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Born in Holland in the province of Friesland, in a small town just north of the capital of
Leeuwarden. He was born in 1931.
There were 10 children in his family.
His father was a baker.
His family was very active and very stable. He did not know what hunger was because of
the family business. He did see hunger in others though.
He was about ready to go to school, when he saw the local sheriff talking to his father.
He would ask what it was about and that’s how he found out that the Germans had
invaded Holland.
He was 9 when the Germans invaded.
It took them 5 days to occupy the country and 7 days to get to their town.

German Occupation (3:15)
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There were not many Germans in his town, but they did round up all the radios and
bicycles.
When the Germans did take the town, life became different. They were very
authoritative.
When they would paste announcements on someone’s house in the town that became the
new rules that they had to live by. For example, they had a curfew by 8 pm. Some
people were under house arrest.
There were some people who kept and hid their radios and they would type or write out
the news and share it with the people. It was the only way they got information.
The Germans would give them news, maybe a couple of days late, but with always a
twist on it. They made it seem as if they were always winning, even after 1944.
There were German collaborators, but they were Nazi supporters before the war started.
He thinks they got along with them in order to survive.
He would continue going to school until 1944 when they emptied out the building so that
German soldiers would stay there. But no one ever did. It stayed empty.
Some of them would go to the teacher’s house to get tutoring.
There was some active Dutch resistance. The English would drop in weapons for them to
use.
There was not a lot of violence in his village, but there were some men who were
executed.
His village did not suffer from any food shortages in his village, even in the late stages of
the war. There were a lot of people in his community who made their own food.

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The Canadians and the Dutch resistance would help to liberate their village.
He had found out that they had taken their line all the way up from France.
They also had a dog with them. He could not believe it.
There was not a lot of resistance by the Germans when they were pushed out. In fact,
most of the fighting and deaths would happen to the south of his village. (11:30)
The Canadians would load up a lot of their food and have it taken to other places
throughout Holland that were suffering from hunger. They also appointed a mayor to try
to help things get back to the way they were.
His family would stay in Holland until 1946. Then his family would live in Apeldoorn
for 6 years, while his father tried to create another business for himself. They would then
move to the United States.
His father decided to move to America because they had friends and family in Grand
Rapids to help them. The economy was better here too.
His family sent him and his sister there first in March 1952. They would get an
apartment and set up a life for them and prepare for when their family moved over 3
months later.
There was a Dutch Military obligation due to the conflict in Indonesia.

Basic Training (15:40)
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He was supposed to report for duty for March 14th, 1952. He left on March 7th and the
first piece of mail he received here was telling him that he had to report for duty.
He contacted the Dutch consul in town and wrote them that he was not coming back.
He would then have to sign up for the local draft board. He would later on be drafted into
the American Army as a non-citizen.
Going in as a non-citizen, means that he would be awarded his citizenship on completing
his time in the military.
He would be sent to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri for his basic training.
It was all wooden barracks and it was rapidly build for WWII.
His first 8 weeks of basic training and the next 8 weeks he would be trained in baking,
butchering and cooking school. He asked for that training. He liked that too because he
did not have to pull any guard duty or KP or anything like that.
Infantry training was tough at first. They did a lot of marching and would march 5 miles.
He knew English before he entered the Army. He had met an elderly gentleman who
would teach him. He still is learning, but he knew enough that it got him by in the Army.
While he was in basic, there were about a dozen non-citizen people who would serve
with him.
He would spend 18 weeks at Fort Leonard Wood.
Once he was finished, he was sent on a plane to Camp Kilmer, New York [New Jersey].
He was there for 2 weeks and he didn’t know anyone. He felt very out of place.
He didn’t have much to do either. The only assignment he had was to fry eggs for 3500
men, one morning.
Eventually he was put on a ship and sent to . It was a owned by the merchant marines.
There were about 2,000 troops on the ship and it took over 2 weeks to get there.
The weather got really back when they hit the North Sea.

�

Some of them were sick the whole trip, though he did not have any problems. He learned
that fresh air helped.

Europe (22:35)
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He was taken to Bremerhaven in Northwestern Germany.
From there he took a train to another German city, and then on to La Rochelle, France.
They would drop some off at other cities along the way.
He would be sent to a hospital in the town.
The town itself was old, but the camp stayed in a different town. It had not been hit by
bombs or anything during the war.
He saw the German submarine station there which he would see on multiple occasions.
He would work with a dietitian while at the hospital.
The hospital was broken into three wards: the medical ward, the ladies ward, and one for
the mental cases.
The hospital did not treat the local population, but they did those who were in civil
service.
Since the hospital was so old, it did not have an elevator. His job was to be in charge of
the medical ward food. He had to get the right orders from the sergeant and bring the
food up and distribute it.
It was an easy job to do.
There were a lot of American troops based in the area at the time.
There was a supply line that would go through the area on their way into Germany.
Some people in the line would get sick and they needed a place to go. The hospital
would provide a place for the people to stay.
Sometimes they were shipped out of their hospital to Paris and then back to the US.
During the time he was there, he had some time to look around.
He would find the southern part of France, wine country, very interesting.
He would also make a trip to Holland for two weeks. He would go back to his old home
town. The town was pretty much the same as when he went back. He would also go
back to visit in 1995 and then things were very different. There were 19,000 Canadians
there and it was very interesting.
He spent 20 months in La Rochelle. He would have quite a bit of contact with the local
population. Quite a few of them worked for them at the hospital.
A couple of them viewed him differently than others because he was originally Dutch.
In general, the French attitude toward the American servicemen was not very good. He
was always told to stay away from certain places. The communist and socialists in
France were not very friendly.
They especially had a problem with the American soldier who came in with their money
and only cared about girls. He says that there were certain people who really gave the
Army a bad name. They got intoxicated and acted like fools.
The French really liked to talk politics. All they talked about was how they were so good
and the Americans were so bad. He was also there when France struggled to keep hold of
Indo-China. (32:30)
He always stayed away from trouble, like rallies and marches.

�

When they had to go to the markets, they really appreciated the business.

Post Duty (34:30)
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When he got back to the United States, he arrived on a Friday and since it was after 4,
they were not able to be discharged. And since everyone had Saturday off, he had to wait
until Monday until he was discharged.
He almost reenlisted into the Army. He really wanted more schooling. He had no
American schooling to speak of and only a little schooling in the Netherlands. The only
schooling he had in the Army was how to use a rifle and some schooling from the chef.
In the end he decided not to stay in because he had a family at the time.
He got married when he came to live in the US. He was married by the time he got
drafted.
When he got out of the Army, he worked in his previous job at a large company with a lot
of benefits. They were very good to him, and it paid off to stay with them because of the
benefits they gave him.
His time in the military was very educational for him. He would also grow a certain
appreciation for the country and the government.

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
World War II
Jim VanderMoere
Length of interview (1:01:52)
(:10) Background/Drafted
• (:10) He was born and raised in Grand Rapids, Michigan and went to high school
there.
• (:26) He turned eighteen in January of 1943. The drafted went on steadily
throughout this time. Some of the men in his class were drafted before they
graduated, but the principal managed to have their drafts delayed until after
graduation.
• (:52) He graduated from Central High school and was drafted on 6/11/1943, and
was at the Great Lakes Naval Training Station on 6/22/1943.
• (1:23) His family was fortunate during the Great Depression. His father was an
office worker, and although he had to change jobs frequently he usually had a job.
He worked at Metropolitan Life Insurance once.
• (1:55) He heard about the Pearl Harbor attacks that afternoon. The radio
broadcast was interrupted for the report. He had not heard of Pearl Harbor until
that time. From then on the news followed reports of the war more closely.
• (2:20) He did not really follow the war prior to the Pearl Harbor attacks. The war
was a frequent source of discussion while he in high school. A friend of his
decided to drop out and enlist in the Navy. He later wished he had known, and he
probably would have joined him.
• (3:03) His teachers had them perform exercises while still in school to ready them
for military training. He was drafted by the Kent County draft board.
• (3:54) He took a train with two friends to Detroit, Michigan. He was rejected
because his blood sample was too old, and his other friend was rejected because
of his poor eyesight. The third man was the only accepted, and he was only
seventeen.
• (5:22) He decided to join the Navy when he was drafted. They were given the
option for the Marines, the Navy, or the Army. The option was not given when
any branch had staff shortages.
• (5:57) He had liked the outdoors, and had been in the Boy Scouts and the sea
Scouts.
(6:22) Training
• (6:22) All the administration was done from Detroit. Ten or eleven men from his
high school were in boot camp with him. He had to catch up with them because
he had been delayed from the paperwork. He took a Greyhound bus.
• (7:16) He had Basic training at Great Lakes, Illinois. It was very physical and
they had frequent drills. They had companies of about seventy-five men. Since it
was July, Basic was very hot.

�•

(8:23) They did not call the “drill sergeants” sergeant. Most of them were
recently graduated CPO’s who were a little older than they were. Most of them
were fair.
• (9:03) Most of the draftees were younger men. Some older men had enlisted as
well. Some of the older men dropped out, or were eased out because they
couldn’t keep up with the training physically.
• (9:50) Near the end of boot camp he was given a choice on how to advance. He
had taken frequent aptitude tests while he was in the Navy. He had wanted to be a
gunner, or a machinist, or possibly a radioman. He was disqualified from being
on an aircraft carrier because of his aptitude tests. He did not agree with it at the
time, but didn’t do anything about it. He chose to go to diesel school.
• (11:24) He went to diesel school at Navy Pier, which was very close. He had
about five hundred men in his company this time. It was a good school, and he
learned how to service small diesel engines. The instructor told them they would
probably be on a small landing craft, and emphasized the importance of such
craft. He was later given the option of being a submariner, and decided to take it
because it had better pay and better food.
• (13:03) About fifty men were eligible to be submariners. This was where he met
his friend Don Bennett. At the time, he did not think of the dangers of being a
submariner and saw it as an adventure.
• (13:46) Next he was put into Spritz’s Navy. Spritz was a tough and mean man.
He was tested frequently while in Spritz’s Navy. He had psychiatric tests
frequently. One of the testers asked him if he was related to Johnny Vandermeer,
a baseball player who had had a good season that year. He is not related to
Johnny Vandermeer. He also had constant physicals.
• (15:12) Many of the men did not pass the physicals. Others could not keep up
with the classes. Diesel school was much different from boot camp. They went
out on an old S-boat which had been built in 1918 or 1919 for practice. It was old
and rusty.
• (16:17) The first time he was on board a sub it was an old rusty sub. They
gradually worked up to better quality, and larger submarines. They only dived
about twenty or thirty feet in the older subs, and had to be very delicate with
them.
• (17:08) He knew submarines very well by the time he was on active duty. One of
the options was for men to learn how to use the electric subs. Another option was
to work at various shipyards.
(17:37)Deployed/Service Crew
• (17:37) The crews were made from a combination of new men and veterans.
• (18:28) He was on a troop transport within two days of graduating. On the way,
he saw a man he had gone to high school with, and a former neighbor. They were
assigned to duty alphabetically, so he was separated from his friend Bennett. He
stayed overnight on Treasure Island.
• (19:40) He was sent out on a Liberty ship. He slept in one of the many holes. He
thought the ship was very crowded, and too full at the time. The ship also had
tugboats, and other supplies on board. They had an on-deck shower.

�•

(20:38) They were on the ship for twenty-eight days. They went to Milne Bay,
New Guinea. They saw one plane during the trip, but it turned out to be an
American plane. This was during 1944.
• (22:03) The area was jungle, and the men enjoyed some of the local food. Some
of the men got sick after eating coconuts. They had to take tablets for malaria,
which made them yellow after awhile. They were in this area for about ten or
twelve days, and unloaded goods keep busy.
• (22:45) They were put on a landing craft, and then put on the H.M.A.S. Westralia
without much notice. The Westralia was an early cruise liner, and it had just
come back from the landing at Hollandia, New Guinea. They were sent to
Sydney, Australia. The Westralia was a large ship, and the bunks were four or
five beds deep.
• (23:33) He continued to wait for submarine duty, and was not notified of any
future developments. They stayed in Sydney, Australia for one night. Then they
were sent out by rail, on the only railroad at the time. Each railway had their own
gauges, so they had to change cars frequently. They threw bread to the aborigines
on the way.
• (24:40) They arrived in Perth, Australia and then went to Fremantle by truck.
Next they were assigned to the U.S.S. Orion a sub tender. He was assigned a
bunk, and was put on menial labor to start out.
• (25:47) A “tender” is a ship which carries on board everything a submarine
needs; a foundry, a wood-working section, everything. The relief crew would
repair the subs after each patrol. The subs were repaired for two weeks. He was
in Australia about eight months, and Australia was a good duty.
• (27:49) They had gas and food rationing in Australia, and the taxis used charcoal.
After awhile, he and some other men began to itch for a more active duty. The
Sunfish (which Bennett was on) was a “thin-skin” submarine and went about
three hundred feet beneath surfaces. He wanted to go on a “thick skin”
submarines, which could go about five hundred feet beneath the surface. The
Blenny was a thick skin submarine. He was later assigned to the Blenny. He and
Bennett could have been assigned to the Flyer, which exploded after hitting a
mine.
(30:37) Submarine Duty
• (30:37) On February 5th, 1945 he was assigned to the Blenny. The crews were
rotated frequently, and many of the men completed their duty in Australia. They
went to the Lombok Straits, which were used to enter Indonesia. The straits were
deept, and impossible to mine. It was also about one thousand miles away.
• (32:19) The subs patrolled alone, and they went near French Indochina, as it was
called then.
• (32:47) On their first patrol they had problems with the torpedoes—they smoked.
A Japanese destroyer dropped fifteen depth charges on them. He was in the aft
torpedo room and served as part of the reload crew at the time. Part of the sink
came off, and the lights went out during the depth charge. They also had
lightning inside the sub from the electrical equipment in the control room.

�•
•

•

•

•

•

•
•
•
•

•
•

(34:42) After the first depth charge he asked the cook, if the depth charge had
been particularly bad. The cook told him “you dummy, if it was any worse, you
wouldn’t be standing there!” It had been a very close call, apparently.
(35:11) They sank a number of Japanese ships on the patrol. They sank a 10,000
pound tanker, a 7,500 ton freighter, two 4,000 ton freighters, and they damaged
two 10,000 ton tankers. It was a night attack out of Cam Ranh Bay. The tankers
were filled gasoline, and had escorts. They had planned the attacks with radar,
and compensated for enemy evasion.
(31:45) They fired four torpedoes at the first target, and broke it in two with two
or three hits. They fired another two at a secondary target, and two more at a
third. The second two were damaged, but not sunk. Sinking an enemy ship was
initially joyous occasion, but then it became a somber one.
(37:28) On the second patrol, they sank a freighter, and a small sub-chaser in a
bay while they were anchored. They used the electric motor to be quieter, and
again attack at night. One of the men in the torpedo room fired a torpedo and then
ran up to the deck in time to see the torpedo hit the target. Their skipper was a
very brave man.
(39:31) They used their equipment to the fullest. The torpedoes continued to be
an issue, but it was mostly taken care of by 1945. Jim thinks the men who
designed the torpedoes did not want to admit their failures with the torpedo,
which was why it took so long for them to be fixed.
(40:33) The worst attack was on their last patrol as the war was winding down.
The Japanese had begun to be more careful with their depth charges because they
had a shortage of resources. They also used anything for transport because of
ship shortages.
(41:31) They had left Fremantle on about the Fourth of July, 1945. They went
into the Gulf of Siam, which was blockaded by subs.
(42:08) On the last patrol, they sank sixty-three vessels within forty-five days,
which was a Navy record in the area. They stopped with other American subs to
reload on ammunition in order to continue their patrol.
(42:50) They had an ice cream machine on the sub. At one point the gear broke,
and was repaired by one of them men. After the war, they joked with some other
men that they nearly ended the patrol when the ice cream machine broke.
(43:39) A fire once broke out in the number four motor, and the rigging on the
submarine broke. They debated ending the patrol, but decided to repair the sub
instead. They dove to three hundred and seventy-two feet in order to repair it. It
took more than a day. Afterwards they surfaced, and the skipper opened the
hatch. The change in pressure was large enough that the sub jumped and he cut
his head. They had few accidents on subs, mostly men falling. He has a saying
that there are “no Purple Hearts in the submarine service, we went all out or all
back.”
(45:45) One of the men simply broke during a depth charge attack. He was soon
transferred. This was an unusual occurrence, probably because they had been
tested so rigorously.
(46:40) During their last patrol they sank sailboats that were carrying supplies to
the Japanese. They would take the crew onto the submarine, search the boat, and

�then sink it if they found anything. After about twenty to thirty evacuations they
had to drop off all the civilians. They usually dropped them off on a larger
sailboat. Eventually they had a cockroach problem because of all the transfers on
and off the sub.
• (48:01) The skipper wanted to sink a tugboat and eventually they found a tugboat
that they ran aground. One of the men on the tugboat had jumped off the ship and
ran to a nearby island. He was nearly hit, but not hurt, by an artillery shell and
badly scared. They burned the barges the tugboat had been hauling. The war
ended the fifteenth of August.
• (49:15) They made “trim dives” to clean the subs after patrol. They had two
radars, one for aircraft and one for ships. The radarman said “all clear” once,
thinking that all the radar blips were islands and they surfaced right under an
enemy aircraft. The enemy plane promptly dropped a bomb at them, but missed.
This happened eight days before the war ended.
• (50:51) The Cod was part of the blockade on the Japanese. An enemy plane made
a strafing run at them while they were surfaced, and some of the men jumped off
the sub and onto the ship to avoid the gunfire. They were later tracked down by
the sub.
• (52:44) They had all expected the war to end soon, and followed the news. He
remembered the news about the nuclear tests.
• (53:25) They had heard about the bombing in Japan, and were ordered to cut the
patrol short and to go home.
• (54:00) On the Blenny’s first patrol (which he was not on) they had found an
enemy troop transport and fired at it. They missed because the periscope had
been on the wrong resolution. The Japanese recovered the torpedoes and used
them.
(55:31) Post-War
• (55:31) Usually after a patrol they had two weeks as a break. On his last patrol
they had only two or three days because the patrol was shorter. The subs in the
area formed a group to depart.
• (56:07) The Admiral gave a speech on board each sub. The subs left by way of
Guam Harbor, and then split up. He saw many ships on the way, and got on a
supply boat to see if a friend from his church was on board. Bill Bass was not
onboard, and he got in trouble for leaving the sub. He had had to spend the night
on the supply boat because of an engine malfunction. The subs and ships made
practice runs in the bay.
• (58:39) On the way home they stopped in Pearl Harbor for one day, and then he
went to San Diego, Claifornia. He visited Hollywood and then took a troop train
to Illinois and then passed his boot camp on the way home. He was discharged on
March 6th, 1945.
• (59:27) He has been in submarine conventions since the 1950’s. The skipper has
since passed away.
• (1:00:08) He did not like school much. He was overseas while on duty for
twenty-two months. After the Navy, he had some “rough edges” and drank which
his mother did not approve of. His father advised he go to college, to smooth his
“rough edges” and he went to Davenport. He became an insurance agent and

�married in 1948. He had five children, and delivered three of them at his home.
He had three daughters and two sons. One of them is an air traffic controller in
Chicago.

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                <text>Jim Vandermoere was born and raised in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He was drafted on June 11, 1943 and started training at Great Lakes, Illinois eleven days later.  He decided to join the Navy, and decided to become a submariner because it offered better pay and better food.  He served in a relief crew on the sub tender U.S.S. Orion for eight months while in Australia.  He was assigned to the submarine U.S.S. Blenny on February 5, 1945.  He served on patrols near Indonesia and Southeast Asia.  He served overseas for twenty-two months.</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Vietnam
Robert Vandermolen
Total Time – (18:22)

Background
•
•
•
•

He enlisted August 26, 1974
Nearly all of his family had served (00:32)
He says that everyone is lucky to go to war and come back out (01:20)
He gained a lot of respect from his father for serving (01:47)

Active Duty – (01:51)
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•

•
•
•
•
•
•

When he came home, everyone hated the military men (02:01)
o A rock band tried to pick a fight with him on his way home
He did not get to know any of the Vietnamese people (02:30)
It was extremely hot and humid (02:50)
He served in a combat mission in Cambodia (03:21)
o It was finally declassified in 2000
He worked with mortars, machine guns, explosives, etc during the war (04:20)
o He was part of fire support
 They would fire explosives to thin out the enemy (04:59)
His division was known as the “walking dead” (05:17)
The food was very bad during the war
It was not very difficult to get acclimated to life when he came home
There was extensive training (06:20)
o Yet, no one is prepared to go into war (06:48)
He flew to Vietnam
He landed in Yokohama, Japan (07:19)
o Was snowed in here – then traveled to Okinawa
o From Okinawa, they traveled to U-Tapao, Thailand where they exchanged
for operations in Cambodia (07:39)
o Did evacuations from Phnom Penh, Cambodia and Saigon (Ho Chi Minh
City), Vietnam (07:44)
He was there near the end of the war
Most of the soldiers serving did not think that they would ever go home
He keeps in touch with some of the guys he served with (09:08)
He spent some time in the Philippines and then went to Korea (10:37)
Every country was extremely different to go to
Many of the natives in the different countries tried to rob them (11:12)

�•
•
•
•
•
•

He enjoyed Thailand the most
o The people were nice (11:56)
He trained with the Navy, but did not spend much time with any other branch
(12:52)
o The Marines were self-contained
He believes the Marine Corps will open up young men’s eyes (14:00)
o The marines changes a person for life
 Positive changes
He believes that war is like a disease (14:40)
He began seeing the war more realistically when he returned (14:57)
He was 18 years old when he went into the Marines (15:35)

After the Service – (17:03)
•
•
•
•

After the marines, he sold cars (17:10)
He then began working on oilrigs (17:20)
He worked on building bridges for some time as well (17:55)
Also spent some time working with metal fabrication

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Harry Vanderstow
World War II
Total Time: 17:11
Pre-War (00:02)
•
•
•
•

Born in 1926.
His parents were farmers, and he had 2 brothers and 1 sister.
He worked on the Farm and went to school before the war.
He was drafted into the Army in 1944.

Training (03:20)
•
•

Left for training on September 1st, 1944.
Basic training was not too difficult for him.

Active Duty (04:20)
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•

Served in France, Germany and Austria.
He was scared a lot of the time, and did not enjoy his experience in the Army very
much.
Spent his passes going to London and Paris.
He was in the fight for the city of Mannheim.
He stayed in touch with his family at home via letters.
Spent much of his downtime sleeping. They would have one man on guard and
the other two men slept when they were in the foxholes. They carried wool GI
blankets, which he slept on.
He was awakened in the night to be told that the war had ended.
He went over to Europe on the Queen Mary and came back to the US on the
Queen Elizabeth.
He was initially supposed to come back to the US after the war had ended in
Europe and train for an invasion of Japan. However, the Atomic Bomb was
dropped on Japan and they surrendered before he could go.
He worked as a desk clerk at a camp in Arkansas until he was discharged.

Post-War (11:45)
• He did an ok job of adjusting to life out of the Army.
• He maintained some contact with the friends he made in the army.

�</text>
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Boring, Frank</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Name of War: Vietnam War
Interviewee’s Name: William VanderWoude
Length of Interview: 10 minutes

Pre-Enlistment (00:11)


Childhood (00:12)
o VanderWoude was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on September 11, 1948.
(00:23)



Education (00:28)
o Attended parochial school through high school. (00:32)

Enlistment/Basic Training (00:41)


Why he joined up (00:42)
o Was drafted under number 168 in November, 1971 into the U.S. Army at the age
of 23 while holding a full-time job in teaching high school kids. (00:47)



Where he went (01:20)
o Describes in some detail what training was like while at Fort Knox, Kentucky for
8 to 10 weeks. (02:00)

Active Duty (02:17)


Background (02:24)
o After basic training, because he had graduated college with mathematics major he
had three options. These included reenlisting for another year, going to officer’s
candidate school, or handling nuclear missiles. Was then sent to Fort Sill,
Oklahoma where he served his time during the course of the Vietnam War.
(02:51)
o Describes the feelings among nuclear testers such as himself who served there
about not being sent to Vietnam. (03:09)



Fort Sill, OK (03:15)

�o Describes what base life was like with all the responsibilities and rules he had.
(03:49)
o Further describes what he did to pass the time and what the food was like while
stationed on base. (04:30)
o Made reference to the close relationships he formed while in the military and who
he kept in contact with. (05:04)
o Served in the armed forces from November, 1971 to August, 1973 when he went
back home to teach high school kids. Initially, he mentions signing a teaching
contract o get out the Army early to go back to teaching. (05:38)
After the Service (05:53)


Readjusting to Home (06:06)
o Briefly mentions how tough it was to cope with the attitudes of civilians towards
army men once they returned to their normal lives. (06:29)
o Following the Vietnam War, VanderWoude mentions going back to teaching high
school kids. (06:56)



Reflection (07:15)
o Describes in some detail what his military experience taught him; his best
memories, and what he took away from the experiences as a whole. (08:40)

�</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans' History Project
William Van Dop
World War II
50 minutes 54 seconds
(00:00:12) Early Life
-Born in Muskegon Heights, Michigan on July 20, 1926
-Parents were immigrants from the Netherlands
-Came to the United States in 1919
-He was one of seven children
-After completing the eighth grade he moved to Spring Lake, Michigan
-Older brother had a farm and needed some help working it
-Father died when he was three years old
-Mother remarried in 1933
-Stepfather owned a truck farm
-He and the rest of the family worked on the farm and brought crops to market
-Fairly young during the worst of the Great Depression
-Remembers feeling bitter about having to work on the farm
-The upside to that though was the family had enough to eat
-Always had fruits and vegetables
-Also raised chickens and had one dairy cow
-Able to stay in school
-Went to ninth grade and tenth grade in Spring Lake
-Went through the eleventh grade and twelfth grade in Grand Haven, Michigan
-Graduated in June 1944
-Hitchhiked to school
-No buses at the time
-If he didn't catch a ride he had to walk to school
-Five or six miles
(00:03:47) Start of the War
-Didn't pay too much attention to when the Second World War began in 1939
-Sister-in-law predicted that the war would be over before he would have to serve
-Remembers riding in a friend's car in Grand Haven when he heard the news about Pearl Harbor
-Didn't know where, or what, Pearl Harbor was
-Rationing went into effect shortly after the United States entered the war
-Worked at a gas station and remembers people using gas ration stamps
-Felt the system worked well enough
-One brother joined the 32nd Infantry Division
-Another brother served in the Army Air Force
-The brother that was in the 32nd Infantry Division got a medical discharge
-Had to drive his brother's car from Louisiana back to Michigan
-Only 15 years old
-As the war went on he assumed he would eventually get involved
-Tried to enlist in the Army Air Force between his junior and senior years of high school
-Wanted to become a pilot
-Turned away due to poor eyesight
-Could have enlisted in the Navy at 17 years old, but the Navy didn't appeal to him

�(00:07:29) Getting Drafted
-Registered for the draft in July 1944 when he turned 18
-Thought he would have to report for service as soon as he was registered
-Called up for active duty in November 1944
-Went to Fort Sheridan, Illinois for processing
-Spent three days there
(00:08:19) Basic Training
-Sent to Camp Joseph T. Robinson near Little Rock, Arkansas for basic training
-Did a lot of physical training
-Got up early, then fell into formation, and marched to the mess hall for breakfast
-The first three or four weeks were focused on getting recruits into good shape
-Went to the rifle range
-First week of rifle training consisted of “dry runs” (loading a rifle, but not firing it)
-Learned how to shoot with the M1 Garand rifle and the M1 Carbine
-Learned how to use other infantry weapons
-Went to the grenade range and learned how to use hand grenades
-Shown movies on how to protect themselves in the field
-Dug foxholes
-Learned that foxholes were the most basic, and sometimes best defense in the field
-Went on the infiltration course
-Crawled under barbed wire while a machine gun fired live rounds over their heads
-Teaching soldiers how to approach an enemy position while taking fire
-Finished basic training with a two week bivouac
-Marched to various places then set up camp
-Sometimes had to set up camp during the day, sometimes at night
-Always made sure to find a level place in case it rained
-High emphasis on discipline and following orders
-Began to anticipate what an order would be, then the drill sergeants changed their routine
-Learned that when you were ordered to do something it was best to just do it
-Not difficult for him
-Enjoyed it because it provided him with structure
-Made him mature
-Working on a farm physically prepared him for military service
-A lot of the men couldn't march long distances
-He found the long marches easy after walking to school as a boy
-Basic training lasted 15 weeks
-Ended sometime in spring 1945
(00:14:16) Fort Ord, California &amp; Deployment
-Given ten or 11 days “delay en route”
-Meant he had a little over a week to get out to Fort Ord, California, so he could visit home
-Took a train to Fort Ord, California
-Spent a month at Fort Ord waiting for his next assignment
-Went out each day for more training
-In late May/early June 1945 he went to Oakland, California and boarded a troopship
-Received advanced training at Fort Ord
-More shooting
-Combat training
-Knew he would be sent over as an infantry replacement

�-Issued heavy coats, so they thought they were being sent to Alaska
-He was made part of the Advance Guard on the ship
-Meant he went on first and did a security sweep of the ship
-Got to go to the commissary and buy as much chocolate as he wanted
-Ate his chocolate then threw it all up when they were only five miles out to sea
-3,000 troops on the ship
-Got a midday meal because he was part of the Advance Guard
-It was a peanut butter and jelly sandwich
-Trip was uneventful
-Planes flew overhead with tow targets
-Note: tow targets are targets towed by planes for antiaircraft practice
-Chance for the 5 inch gun crews to have some practice
-Sailed alone until they joined a convoy at the Mariana Islands
-Missed Hawaii going across the Pacific Ocean and missed it when he came back to the United States
(00:18:32) Arrival in the Philippines
-Landed at Manila
-Boarded trucks and taken to a replacement depot
-Pulled guard duty at night on a rice paddy on the perimeter
-Incredibly dark and he was nervous
-Japanese had been defeated, but there were Filipino guerrillas in the area
-Didn't know if they were friendly or not
-Confined to the camp
(00:20:30) Military Police (MP) Duty
-Selected for Military Police duty
-Disappointed that he wouldn't get to move on with his friends
-Assigned to MP duty on August 1, 1945
-Posted to various gates at a camp located on Manila Bay
-Patrolled the beach as well
-Stayed on the compound
-Guarding people on the base
-Base was used as a transit center for freed civilian internees, soldiers going home, and nurses
-Compound had a variety of barracks, a command center, and a mess hall
-Civilian internees were kept separate from the military personnel
-Unhealthy people
-Only saw them for about two or three weeks before they had all been sent home
-Incoming nurses stayed with them for a long time
-Officers drove 70 miles just to meet the nurses
-Not supposed to fraternize with the nurses, but the enlisted men still struck up conversation
-The nurses did not stay on the base long because they were assigned to other bases
-Didn't talk with the soldiers returning home
-Different group of men and he could tell that they had been in the war for a long time
-Most of them just wanted to focus on getting home
-The nurses passing through the base came straight from the United States
-Stationed at the base as an MP from August 1, 1945 – October 1946
-Became corporal of the guard then became sergeant of the guard
-More assignments and more leadership responsibility
-A Seabee unit left their compound, so it became a satellite compound for William's base
-Used it for USO Shows
-Meant the Military Police had to guard that too

�-Remembers a 30 or 40 foot water tower they had to climb and use as a vantage point
-Eventually got placed in the MP Command Center pulling telephone duty
-Worked 4 PM to Midnight one day
-Had the next day off
-The day after that he worked from Midnight to 8 AM
(00:28:28) Downtime in the Philippines
-Had a lot of free time
-Once he became a corporal he was allowed to check out a jeep from the motor pool
-Used it to drive into Manila and into the nearby mountains
-Took a tour of Corregidor
(00:29:27) War Damage
-The roads were in bad shape
-Could tell that the Philippines were a war torn country
-Living conditions were much better on the base than off the base
-Civilians were living in primitive conditions
(00:30:08) Filipino Civilians
-Hired Filipino women to wash their laundry
-They used stones and cold water to clean the clothes
-Had to watch out for theft from the Filipino laborers used on the base
-Had to search their bags when they went home at night
-Allowed to take scrap food home
-If they stole too much they lost their job
-Filipinos he talked to were friendly
-Filipinos didn't talk about what life was like during the Japanese occupation
-Probably didn't want to relive those years
-Most of the civilians he saw didn't have proper clothing and had definitely gone through a lot
(00:32:25) Crime
-No issues with gambling that he was aware of
-There was probably prostitution going on around the base
-Way for the Filipino women to support themselves
(00:32:58) USO Shows
-Saw USO Shows while in the Philippines
-Entertainers would come to their compound and stay in the area for about two weeks
-Perform at other nearby bases and camps
-Doesn't recall seeing anyone famous, but got to meet the performers he did see
-During basic training the singer, Lena Horne, performed for the men
(00:34:25) Coming Home Pt. 1
-A lot of the senior enlisted men were being sent home
-Men started to count their “points”
-Points were awarded based on rank, length of service, and number of dependents
-Once a soldier had enough points he was sent home
-By the time he was ready to go home there wasn't much to do in the Philippines anyway
-Men were encouraged to reenlist
-Go home for 30 days then return to the Philippines for more service
-Got two weeks advance notice before he knew he was going home
(00:36:52) Filipino Independence Day
-On July 4, 1946 the Philippines became an independent country
-Remembers being in a crowd of Filipinos celebrating their new independence
-They were excited about that

�-Had been a Spanish colony, US territory, and under Japanese occupation
(00:37:51) Coming Home Pt. 2
-Came back on a smaller ship
-Ran into the tail end of hurricane
-Rough voyage
-Took 21 days to get back to the United States
-Landed at Oakland, California
-Brought into an enclosed area with beds, a mess hall, and a bowling alley
-Got to have fresh milk and all the ice cream they wanted
-Stayed in Oakland for one week
-Sent to Camp Beale, California
-When he arrived the base was already partially shut down
-Waiting to be discharged
-Discharged from there in the fall of 1946
(00:39:20) Life after the War
-Returned to Michigan
-Parents were getting ready to move to Florida, so he had nowhere to go
-Brother was going to college at Ferris State University in Big Rapids, Michigan
-Visited his brother and discovered that old high school friends were also attending
-Had never entertained the idea of going to college
-Brother and friends encouraged him to enroll
-Enrolled at Ferris State University in November 1946
-Studied business management
-Graduated in February or March 1950
-Worked for the IRS as a revenue agent in Muskegon, Michigan
-Got married shortly after he graduated from college
-Worked in Muskegon until 1973 then got transferred to Grand Rapids, Michigan
-Met his wife on a blind date during college
(00:43:00) Contact with Home during Service
-Wrote to his mother
-Occasionally wrote to his brothers and his step-brothers
-Didn't get a lot of mail from home
-Mother had to write to a lot of sons
-She also didn't write English that well, so it was difficult for her to write letters
(00:43:48) Spirit of Grand Rapids Honor Flight
-Son encouraged him to go on the Spirit of Grand Rapids Honor Flight on May 16, 2015
-Felt it was an outstanding experience
-Impressed by how organized and on time everything was
-Greeted at Ronald Reagan Washington International Airport by a crowd of people
-Completely taken aback that so many people would be greeting them so early in the morning
-On May 15 he and the other veterans were treated to dinner at Thousand Oaks Country Club
-Saw the national war memorials in Washington DC
-Got to explore the World War II Memorial on his own with his son
-Saw all of the monuments and memorials on the National Mall
-Served dinner in a mess hall style in large WWII-era tents
-Got back on the buses just as a rainstorm began
-Only delay during the trip was due to the weather, not human error
-Greeted at Gerald R. Ford International Airport by firetrucks giving them a salute with the hoses
-Went to East Kentwood High School where thousands of people waited for them

�-Thanked and honored for their service
-Saw children as young as five years old and people as old as 80 years old
-Grandchildren were there
(00:50:15) Reflections on Service
-Didn't enjoy all of his time in the Army, but is glad that he served
-Impressed by how much people want to honor veterans for their service

�</text>
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                    <text>GV043-07
Connected Exhibit Interviews
Interviewee: Vanessa Ramirez
Interviewers: Gayle Schaub
Date: April 21, 2016
Vanessa:

00:07 My name’s Vanessa Ramirez. I am studying allied health science and minoring in
criminal justice. The goal is to graduate in the summer and then go on to pursue a
master’s in public health, so I’m super excited.

Gayle:
Vanessa:

Is that a decision you made since being here?
00:28 Yeah, Well I, when I first came into the university, I had no idea, really, what I
wanted to do. My - originally I wanted to do communications and broadcasting,
because I figured ok, I’m bilingual. I can make it through here in Grand Rapids and
do some bilingual things because we don’t really have a Spanish local network with
a television network. So I was, like, “oh, my gosh, that’d be so cool!” but, when it
came down to taking communications classes, I just did not feel comfortable. I did
not feel – I don’t know – it just didn’t sync with me. I feel like when you make a
career choice, it should just sync with you. And it didn’t. It was just like, I just
wanted to do it because it sounded good. And it looked, it felt good but it just didn’t
feel right. So, I was, like, you know what? In high school, I loved science. I loved
physics, I loved chemistry, biology so I was, like, let me, where can I collaborate with
all this and then do it more hands on? So I looked at medical lab science and I just
didn’t do so well in a lot of those courses as I had hoped. I think a lot of it had to do
with, you know, my high school wasn’t exactly like, in one of the richest of
neighborhoods.

Gayle:
Vanessa:

Where are you from?
1:49

I lived in Fennville. Fennville, Michigan. It’s a very little, small town. It’s…, I mean,
most of what we have is, what, cranes? (laughs) It’s really pretty. It’s really pretty in
the summer. I do love the town. But our high school just didn’t have as many
resources as I really thought when I listened to other people when I got into these
courses and I heard other kids talk, I don’t know… you know, so I was a little
insecure and my grades, I feel like, reflected that. And I didn’t get into the program.
I didn’t get into the Medical Lab Science program. Which at first, I was like, I was
upset. I was really upset, because, you know, I’ve never done bad at anything, or got
rejected from something. So, I did a little bit more soul searching that year. I also
went to Mexico so, and that was my first time going with my mom. She was born
there and she was raised there. It had been a long time since she had gone back,
too…so going back and then going with her with her, it was just really an opening
experience for me. Just to not only to get out of the country, but also to see my
roots and be there with my mom and my godmother. It was a beautiful, beautiful
feeling. Then I came back here and I had more of a, a worldly experience. And I
thought, I am so grateful to have that I have. To be where I’m at. And everything
happens for a reason. I get emotional (laughs). So…everything happens for a reason
and I just thought, “How did I end up here? How did I get this far? (Chokes up) Sorry.

�Gayle:
Vanessa:

You’re going to make me…
3:34

Gayle:
Vanessa:

Did this come up from a class, or did you…
4:35

Gayle:
Vanessa:

4:55

Alicia Davis taught that course. And I love her too, she’s one of my favorite
professors, whether she knows it or not. I think I should tell her more often! I’ve
taken three of her courses, so I should probably tell her, “You’re my favorite.” And
then, even now, I had just - this semester I took sociology of health care. And that
course also I was just, I was like this the whole time (mimics paying rapt attention),
because these are topics that I’m passionate about and these are topics that I feel
matter, that I don’t think everybody does feel that they matter.
You found your thing.

5:28

Gayle:

Vanessa:

That too. That too. I also took global health after I came back from Mexico I took
global health that following semester. And I just love that class. I loved it for, you
know, sharing, sharing and going over all the different things that influence our
health.
Who taught that?

Gayle:
Vanessa:

There’s so many things that could have derailed me (chokes up). But, you know,
there’s so many things that could have derailed me from being where I’m at, and I
just…before I would think of all the bad things and I would think, ok, I’m not, I’m not
as intellectual as I thought I was, I’m not as academic as I thought I was. But I
realize, I am so educated compared to other people, and I am so, I’m so blessed to
have what I have and to be where I’m at. So, there’s so many other people who are
not educated in health and they’re not health literate, so I want to be one of those
people to share what I have learned and share all that I have been able to
experience so that way you can live a healthy life and you can be a fulfilled person.
So that’s why public health just, it’s in my heart.

I found my thing! Because I just think about, you know, all these influences on our
health and influences on our daily lives and our futures, and even with our children
and I just, I love it because I just, I want to be there to help people, either help them
understand their health insurance or help them understand their illness in a way
that maybe a physician won’t. And even when you see how people, a lot of health
departments now are handing out more and more condoms because of how many
STDs are out there. So even studying, like, traits, I mean not traits, trends and
stuff…I just love it. What else…?
So, coming to college…what was that, what was your decision based on and what
did you go through and…?

6:28

Ok. So, in high school my high school, again, it just…we talked about college, but not
too much about what happens in college or I just remember going over, like, when
due dates are for applications, when due dates are for FAFSA, and when you should

�take the ACT. That’s basically it. I mean, it was good, it was good information but I
wanted to know, I didn’t have anybody to talk to and I didn’t have anybody to ask
about it. My high school counselor always had her own thing going on. I’d try to go
to her office and sometimes she wasn’t even there, but, I won’t trash on her. So I
was really scared. I was scared because this was always something that I wanted. I
just knew I wanted to go to college. That was it. And I’m a first gen, so my parents
didn’t go. I had a college who took a few courses but he just didn’t go anymore. It
wasn’t his thing. And he wasn’t all that good to talk to and ask about because he
had his own theory of “the man” and things like that. He’s kind of radical like that.
So I decided to talk to my counselor and I told her that I needed to know more
about college. And she was, like, “well why don’t you try a duel-enroll course?” and I
was, like, “what’s that?” you know, so I duel-enrolled in Lake Michigan College and
it was so funny because I think about it, I’m like, “wow, I did that!” Because I went
Monday through Friday with my regular courses, you know, I had senior English,
astronomy, psychology, and what was it? I think I took a math class for fun. And
then, on Saturdays, Saturday mornings I had, I had an English course and a math
course at Lake Michigan College.
Gayle:
Vanessa:

Where’s that?
8:13

Gayle:
Vanessa:

And you did ok?
8:55

Gayle:
Vanessa:

It’s in South Haven, Michigan. Or is it Lake Michigan Community College? I don’t
know, I was only there on Saturday mornings. So went there to get an idea of what
college felt like and what, you know, what’s the difference between a professor and
a teacher, and, you know, how, where do I get books? and things like that. It was so
funny because I tried to buy books from Barnes and Noble and, like, “no, you need
to buy them on campus.” It was like, good thing I’m learning this now! So I got
exposure to there and it was great because I didn’t have to pay for it. And, you
know, the high school paid for it, or I don’t’ know how that got waived or how that
works, but all I know is I didn’t pay for it. And I got some credit so that was…

I did pretty good. I got As and Bs so I was like…well, you know what? They were
both As. Never mind, they were both As, so I was like, “I got this! I got this.” I was so
excited. And then I decided to come here to Grand Valley…
Why?

9:10

I decided because it was close enough to home where I didn’t have to, like, leave my
parents and my brothers. In my culture, family is a major, major component and I
just didn’t know if I could do it, really, because they’re my rock. So I was just…it was
close enough to home, it was affordable. Until I got that bill. Until I looked at that
bill and I saw...I remember freaking out. I was crying, crying to my mom because I’m
like, “how are we going to pay for this? How am I going to do this? I don’t want
loans. You don’t want me to get loans.” I was like, “How am I going to do it?” and I
just remember crying and crying and crying with her. Cause I was like, “How?” I was
like, I was in, we were talking back and forth in Spanish and ¡pinche probresa! And I
was like, “oh my gosh, this is…” I was like, “lo odio,” I was like, “I hate it!” “I hate it!”

�and I was just freaking out. And she was consoling me. She was like, “we’ll figure it
out. You’ll do well.” She was like, “don’t worry about the money.” And I got grants, I
got scholarships and I’m four years in and I’m pretty much I have like the most
minimum loans that I didn’t have to get out till like, this year.
Gayle:
Vanessa:
Gayle:
Vanessa:

So, how did you navigate the grant and scholarship process?
10:28 I navigated it through just research - Google…
By yourself?
10:32 Yeah, Google was amazing. I got a few local scholarships in Allegan County that
really helped me out because they were, they were set up so that way I would get
$500 and I would just pick up the check and I could use it towards tuition or books
and I got it for my first two semesters, so that was great. And then I was also was
able to get a Pell grant and I also got a GV grant (that they didn’t give me last year laughs). You can take that out! (laughs) I’m not sour, but they just said I was above
some guidelines, so I was just like, ok. GV, I’m fine, I’m fine (laughs). And then, I also
got that scholarship and then I work two jobs throughout college. I‘ve always
worked two jobs. I’ve worked at TriO Student Support Services, which I loved. I love
them. They are my work family. They are my GV work family for real. And then, I
also, my other jobs were always in between: wedding planning with this wedding
coordinator, yeah (laughs), I do it all! At this wedding venue in Fennville. With Kathy,
she owns Apple Blossom Wedding Chapel and Garden and I love her and, you know,
she helped me out with giving me that job, so I help with weddings on the
weekends. And then, that’s more seasonal, and then right now I’m working at Grand
Valley here at TRiO Student Support Services. And then I also work on the weekends
at this manufacturing company in Holland. So, yeah…
And that has, I feel like it, sometimes it gets hard, but when I’m there at work and
I’m like “oh why am I working? I’m so tired” and then I’m like, it’s all worth it. It’s all
very, very worth it.

Gayle:
Vanessa:

Have you…so TriO has been a big part of…here…?
12:28 Yeah. Because I, after going over and talking with my parents we decided I didn’t
live that far from campus so I’d commute. So I commuted from Fennville for a little
bit. Now I commute from Holland to here. And sometimes it would get rough.
Sometimes it’d be like I just go to class and go home, go to class and go to work. And
then winter semester my freshman year I got the job at Trio and it really gave me a
rooting to campus. A lot of commuter students have a hard time getting a
connection to campus because we just want to go to class and we want to go to
work and you know sometimes after being here for so long you’re like, “I don’t want
to wait till 9:00 to go these group meetings or stuff like that. And working at TriO,
it’s connecting me to campus where I’m able now to explore – I was able to explore
resources and stuff but sometimes I would just not really look into so much because
I just wanted to home, you know. So it really rooted me to campus and I feel like if I
didn’t, if I didn’t work at TRiO, if I didn’t work on campus my first year, I probably

�would have left. I think I would have, because it’s easy to just flow right through and
just be like, ok, well I don’t feel so connected. I’m just here for class. I’m just, you
know, either I would have moved or I would have just left, you know…I think it really
did help me just, even working on campus, I was able to learn about, you know, the
career center and, you know, SASC and tutoring being free, I probably would not
have looked at that stuff on my own if I didn’t have that connection to TriO. It really,
it really helped me out. And even being involved in that, because I’m not, I don’t
only work for them, I’m also a student in that program.
Gayle:

Vanessa:

Gayle:
Vanessa:

Gayle:
Vanessa:
Gayle:
Vanessa:

So, early when you first started talking, you talked about the fact that you were
bilingual. Has that played any role in your college experience at all?
14:30 A little. A little, because sometimes in, I have, sometimes Spanish can just address a
situation better than an English word can. I don’t know, so sometimes I’d find
myself, if I got really nervous, I got really nervous one time in my speech class and I
started in Spanish (laughs). It was so embarrassing for a minute because I was like,
“ok English. I’m not at home. I’m nervous, but, ok, let me be cool.” And there were
just some times where I couldn’t say certain English words right. That they just came
out funny. So I felt that kind you get a little look, like, “what?” And I’m like, “ok. Let
me try to say it again.” Like I couldn’t, the other day I couldn’t say a last name. It
was, I can’t even say it now, it was McClinton, McClinton and I was like, Mc Clonton,
I just had a hard time. And you know, some other words that I see that are, you
know, like Spanish that…like we were watching La Cosecha and when I said “La
Cosecha,” how it is, I felt like the other students in the class were just like, “what
did she just say?” It was a terrible film! You said…it was just interesting, so…
Have you taken any classes?
15:49 No. No I haven’t. I should have. I should have, now that I think about it. I just, to me
it’s just natural that I use at home. And with, I feel like now very Spanglish, very
Spanglish. I go back and forth, you know at home and sometimes I feel like I’ve lost
a little bit of my Spanish, so I feel like maybe I should take a Spanish course just to, I
don’t know, refresh it and articulate my Spanish, especially…
Or even a Spanish literature course where you can just discuss other things
16:23 Yeah, yeah, even just to discuss other things
Spanish for health professions
16:26 Yes, yes, I was, well I tried to test out of Spanish 202 so that way I could take
Spanish for health professions, because that was a pre-rec. But I ended up lower, so
I’m like, well let me brush up on…

Gayle:

Really?

Vanessa:

Yeah. I was like, huh? Well because some –

�Gayle:

Vanessa:

Gayle:
Vanessa:

It’s probably, the way we struggle with English grammar, so…I’ve worked with, I
used to be the Spanish dept. liaison, and so I’ve worked with Spanish for heritage
speakers, so it’s people who’ve just…you know, how we, native speakers can’t
explain their own grammar. They can’t explain to people why we don’t say “ain’t” or
whatever.
17:03 Yeah, so I was just like, uhhh, (unintelligible) So, there are a few words, maybe
because of the Spanish Spanish, and maybe I’m more slang, so there were some
things on the test that I was just like, “uhhh,” but I think I probably will.
That’s interesting
17:20 Yeah, yeah. I had a little bit of a hard time. Maybe because my Spanish is not as
strong as it used to be. So I, I do want to take Spanish for health professions, just so I
could articulate my Spanish and later on I could, it could be more beneficial if I’m
learning to help educate other people or wanting to help explain Obamacare to
somebody, you know. I feel like if I, if I strengthen up my Spanish, and, especially in
the health professions, it’d be great. There was a, it was a funny story because, one
time I went to my grandma’s house and she cooked, right? And she’s like, “aye,
pues, aye riñones,” and I’m like, “¿qué, qué es un riñon?” She’s like, oh, un riñon.”
I’m like, “what?” So – renal – it was a kidney. She had cooked kidney! And I’m like,
“what?” After I was looking, I was like, “this looks familiar.” That summer I had
taken, what was it? My anatomy lab at GRCC so we dissected a pig kidney or like a
sheep kidney and I was like, “that looks the same,” I was like, “no.” It was gross!
(laughs) I was like, “Grandma, ew! I don’t want this!” But if I had had, like, really
brushed up my Spanish and realized that riñon was kidney, I could have avoided
eating it (laughs).

Gayle:

Well, do you speak Spanish at home?

Vanessa:

Occasionally, yeah

Gayle:

But not all the time?

Vanessa:

18:49 Not all the time. Yeah, because we’re, my mom speaks Spanish. She speaks Spanish
and English. So, it’s just sometimes it’s…I’m just Spanglish. She’ll talk to me in full
Spanish and I’ll just be like back and forth. And sometimes she gets mad too, she’s
like, “you should strengthen up your Spanish.” I’m like, well…

Gayle:

And maybe in the work world, you will.

Vanessa:

Yeah, maybe in the work world I might be able to.

Gayle:

So, you want to use a career that utilizes your bilingualism. It would make sense,
right?

Vanessa:

19:22 Yeah, yeah. At least a little bit, you know. I just want to help out and then, you
know, address that we are living in a time where, you know, America’s very diverse,

�and we have a large Latino and Hispanic, Latino and Hispanic community and we
don’t want to block them out of resources just because of a language barrier.
Gayle:
Vanessa:

And in Grand Rapids, there’s even a large non-Spanish-speaking Latino community.
19:47 Yes, yes, a lot of dialects. My grandma on my dad’s side, is actually a Zapoteco,
native to Oaxaca, and you know, sometimes she would talk to me in her Zapoteca,
and I’m just like, I don’t even know what her dialect is actually called, to be honest.
But I’m just like, “I don’t know, Grandma.” (laughs) “Oh my good- no te entiendo.”
I’m just like (laughs). And she’d get upset, too. She would try to show me. And I’ve
had a few friends from Oaxaca that have a dialect, and I just try to listen because it
sounds so interesting. It’s just very, very interesting. And we all have to also
understand that there are other Spanish that, like a Puerto Rican’s kind of Spanish
and a Cuban’s Spanish that’s very different. There are different words. I was in
Florida and I was speaking to a Cuban lady and I had a hard time because she said a
word that I did not, that I had never heard of, so I was, like, “huh?” and she may
have seen it as rude, but I was like, “I don’t mean to be rude, I just don’t know.” And
then, we also have a lot of…we have a huge Asian population in West Michigan
that’s growing. So, I wish I could be universal and just…

Gayle:
Vanessa:

Well…
21:08 I wish I really could – to help out.

Gayle:

Well, you’re ahead of most people.

Vanessa:
Gayle:

Yeah. I try.
So, when you started here, you’re a senior?

Vanessa:

Yeah.

Gayle:

When you started as a freshman, you started as a commuter. Did you go through
any, like, transitions, or is that only for people moving on campus? Did you go
through any orientation program?

Vanessa:

21:30 I did do orientation. But when I heard transitions was optional, I was like, yeah, I
don’t want to drive up here. So, which was kind of bad.

Gayle:
Vanessa:

Gayle:

Do you regret that?
21:39

A little bit, yeah, I really do. I feel like part of transitions, it helps you make
connections with students on campus – other freshmen especially. So imagine if you
meet a few people during (what’s it called?) …transitions, maybe you’ll have a
familiar face in a class that could help you out. Especially if you miss notes or
anything, or if you have a few questions. So I feel like maybe I should have gone just
to set up more connections on campus.
How did you connect to TriO? Or did they connect with you?

�Vanessa:
Gayle:
Vanessa:

Gayle:
Vanessa:

22: 12 I got a letter from them. I got an invite letter from them.
Before you started at Grand Valley?
22:18 Before my first day, yeah. So I sent in my application right away because I was
already familiar with TriO. So I did that and I was accepted.
What do you have to do to apply to the program?
22:32 Just an application. There are, you just have to be first gen[eration], or limited
income, so I was both. So I was able to get in. It’s just a quick little application. Our
application’s also now online.

Gayle:

Any…I don’t know…I don’t know what else to ask you because I’m starting to
(unintelligible) questions I may have asked someone else.

Vanessa:

No, you’re fine

Gayle:

Do you have a happiest memory? A most frustrated memory? A most…either way –
either end of the spectrum.

Vanessa:

Gayle:
Vanessa:

23:07 My most frustrating memory was when I was failing a course. I was just, well I
considered it failing because I was doing so poorly, especially my first two exams.
And it was one of those courses where you have four exams. So I was freaking out. I
was just like, “Oh my God. I’ve never struggled this bad. What do I do? What do I
do?” I’m literally having an anxiety attack because I’ve never failed a course.
What year were you?
23:35 It was my freshman year. And then I was connected to tutoring so that, at first I was
a little too proud because I was always the tutor, not the tutee. I was like, “oh no.
But I have no reason to be, to have too much pride because I’m failing this course.
Let me go and get help.”
So I go get help. I do walk-in tutoring, I had scheduled tutoring sessions. And it really
helped me improve my grade to at least be passing. I think I ended up with a C.

Gayle:
Vanessa:

What class was it?
24:08 I think it was organic chemistry. So that’s, I like to say that’s when me and chemistry
broke up (laughs). Because I loved chemistry up until then and I was like, “oh my
gosh.” But, I think that’s important, for especially us first-gen students going in – to
be aware of the free resources. Well, you’re already paying for them so utilize these
resources on campus. Utilize the Career Center, the Tutoring Center, the Writing
Center. Oh I love the Writing Center. They helped me out so much during my
Writing 150 course. And then, utilizing faculty and staff. They love to answer your

�questions. I don’t think there’s ever been a time when I was just pushed off or
anything like that. I had questions and they got answered and it helped me out a lot.
Gayle:
Vanessa:

Librarians, too.
24:57 Yeah. Librarians, too! (laughs) I actually did get help – I forgot her name – during
one of my research courses. I took research of health care. It’s AHS 301. But she
helped me out understanding how to use the databases with the quotations and
everything.

Gayle:

Val?

Vanessa:

I don’t remember. But she was nice.

Gayle:

It could have been someone who’s gone now. It may have been Judy.

Vanessa:

That sounds familiar. Did she work with the health professions?

Gayle:

Yeah, Val and Judy, and Betsy does now. But if it was a while back, it was probably…

Vanessa:

Yeah it was before last year…I’m trying to think of any other good stories.

Gayle:

Are you grad- Oh, no, you’re graduating December. Are you going to go to the
ceremony? Are you going to walk?

Vanessa:

No. Because I feel weird if I go walk and then I have to come back and do other
things. I’d rather just walk in December. Then I’ll feel more accomplished.

Gayle:

Oh, but you are going to walk in December? Oh, that’s what I meant.

Vanessa:

Gayle:
Vanessa:

26:05 Yeah. Yeah, I’ll walk in December, because, with a lot of my family, I’ll share this
(gets her phone). I am really blessed to have a really great support network. I have
aunts and uncles and cousins who just been so supportive. And, you know, half the
time they don’t understand college, especially, you know, like, none of them have
gradu- some of them haven’t even graduated from high school but they still, they
just still get so excited for me and I just – I love it.
You might even get some gifts out of this (laughs).
26:45 Oh yeah. They have – there’s been times where I remember, especially my
godfather, I was like, “oh I have to go…” I was staying with him and my godmother
for a couple of days during winter break a few years ago. I was like “oh I have to go
buy my books.” I was like, “oh my gosh I can’t…” I was like “oh crap I totally forgot, I
have to buy my books.” And he bought my books. He was just like, “well, what
courses are you taking?” He said, “well, look them up.” And I had them looked up,
and he bought them for me. So, and he’s always been great with support. Him and a
lot of my close family members. So they were kind of confused as to why I wasn’t
graduating this year. So I had a few questions and then they were asking my mom

�and she was like, “well I don’t know, she’s doing her own thing. I don’t understand”
and everything like that, so I wrote a Facebook post, and I said (reads from post):
"For my amazingly supportive family and friends who have been asking,
I graduate with my bachelor’s in December! So not quite yet, but we’re
so close the finish line! And I say we because I wouldn’t be this far
without all your love, support, and guidance. You are truly appreciated
[and I said] Y pa mi gente, y’all already know my mom is scandalous and
we’ll celebrate!"
(laughs) My mom is always just, she’s always so excited about these things.
So I get a lot of congratulations and, you know, one of my uncles, he says,
(reads from post):
"I always knew you would because you are the Champ/Champie. I can’t
wait to celebrate this great achievement."
And my other tia, she’s like (reads from post):
"Proud of you sweetie. And yes, we’re ready to celebrate."
28:19 So, and a lot of my family live in Chicago, so they’re like, “road trip to
Michigan in December!” and, you know, they’re just so great to support me
even if they don’t understand, you know, what I’m really going through. So
they…where did I hear this? I think it was during a Ted Talk, but I don’t
remember the title. Or it might have been a documentary where he says,
where one of the speakers says, you know, Latino students don’t go to
college. Latino families go to college. So I was like, they truly have been with
me this whole journey, and I think we have to remember that. Especially
when we’re first-gen, we have people back home and we have people here
who are rooting for us and really want us to do well. So I really appreciate it.
Gayle:

So you think you’ll stay around the area?

Vanessa:

I might. Yeah, I probably will. I love Grand Rapids. I love West Michigan.

Gayle:

But you’re open to other ideas as well?

Vanessa:

29:28 Yes. I would not close out other ideas. Because I just love exploring,
especially to see, you know, what other communities are out there, what
it’s like living in other places. But West Michigan has always just been so
sweet. I don’t know how else to call it. I remember, because I grew up in
Chicago for a long time. I was there till I was about 10-12. Then we moved
out here to West Michigan and I remember going back, not that long ago
and I held the door open and, like, “why didn’t she say thank you?” (laughs).
I get so used to it, people here do it. I’m not bashing my other people, I love
them, but…

�Gayle:

I had that experience in Montreal. I held the door open and a woman
walked right through, and I went (makes confused face)

Vanessa:

Yeah (laughs)

Gayle:

There was no acknowledgment

Vanessa:
Gayle:

30:14 Yeah, it was like, whoa. I’ll still do it, but…(laughs) that was mean.
Well, this was great! I have a form for you to fill out.
Ok. Cool. I hope I didn’t get too per-

End

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Willard Van Essen
Korean War
1 hour 21 seconds
(00:00:11) Early Life
-Born in 1927 in Nobles County, Minnesota
-Part of a family of 11 people
-Father had a 640-acre farm
-Lost it in the Great Depression, but was able to work to get it back
-Had dairy cows, steer, pigs, and chickens
-Had three silos
-Very active farm
-One of the best in the community at the time
-Their primary crop was corn, but they also grew wheat, oats, and flax
-Able to stay on the farm and keep their animals during the Depression
-A man from Iowa bought the farm and allowed them to stay and work on it
(00:03:00) World War II
-He was 14 when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor
-Family was in church when an Elder announced that Japan had bombed Pearl Harbor
-Held a long prayer and everyone went home early
-He was the youngest of four boys
-They all talked about enlisting, but his father told them to wait and get drafted
-Oldest two boys were drafted shortly after Pearl Harbor
-One served in the Army in the European Theatre
-He marched in General Patton’s funeral
-Other brother was a Navy pilot stationed at Guam
-Possibly shot down three or four Japanese fighter planes
-Made Chief of Police on Guam due to health problems with flying
-Brothers came home and worked on the farm
(00:06:33) Calvin College
-Wanted to go to college
-Saw an advertisement to get his GED through the American School of Correspondence
-Went to Minneapolis to take the test, but had trouble with algebra
-Contacted Calvin College, because he wanted to study there since he was Christian Reformed
-Had to prove he was serious because he hadn’t gone to high school
-Had spent his teen years helping the farm transition from horses to tractors
-Invited to visit Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan
-A dean interviewed him and told Willard he would give him a chance
-Took four courses as a trial period and proved he could handle college
-Paid $65 a semester

�-Didn’t have any problems adjusting to college
-Wanted to be a teacher, so he had to take two foreign languages
-Studied Spanish and took three years of Greek
-Having Greek would allow to go into the ministry if he so chose
-Wanted to be an elementary teacher
-Ultimately graduated from Calvin College with a teaching degree
(00:12:28) Teaching &amp; Getting Drafted
-Got a job at East Martin Christian School in Martin, Michigan
-Taught there for a year
-He received his draft notice
-Had taught grades 6th – 8th and was also the principal
(00:14:08) Army Reserve Pt. 1
-After his draft enlistment, he joined the Army Reserve, recommended by lieutenant
-Paid for his studies at Michigan State University
-Due to prior teaching experience, he was made the professor of one of his classes
-Allowed the original professor to return to the University of Kansas
-Worked out well for him
-Also took courses through the University of Michigan
-Offered a chance to become part of the staff at MSU, but declined
-Completed his doctorate in communication and cultures
(00:17:58) Basic Training
-Got drafted in 1951
-Sent to Fort Gordon, Georgia, for his basic training
-Went there by train
-Had two sergeants overseeing the recruits and they were drunk the whole time
-Got stuck in Memphis for three days
-Group of recruits walked to a nearby diner to get food
-Owner refused to serve the black recruit in the group
-A recruit grabbed the owner and told him he would serve everyone
-After three days, they finally proceeded to Augusta, Georgia
-Received accelerated training because the Army needed soldiers for the Korean War
-Did an infiltration course at day and at night
-Crawling under barbed wire while live machinegun rounds were fired overhead
-Went on a 30-mile hike
-Physical training
-Received rifle and bazooka training
-Did a lot of marching and always marched with a rifle and various necessities
-Watched all the instruction videos provided by the Army
(00:23:37) Assignment to Records Department at Fort Gordon
-Offered an officer’s commission several times, but he declined
-Pulled aside the day before his unit went to Korea and told to report to a sergeant in records
-Interviewed and told he could take over as the sergeant of records at Fort Gordon
-Allowed it so that his wife could join him, so he took the job

�-The next day, his company shipped out to Korea
(00:26:08) Stationed at Fort Gordon
-Started his duty as records sergeant greeting new recruits coming into Fort Gordon
-Three weeks later, he received the dog tags of the men from his company killed in action
-As soon as they got to Korea they were sent to the frontline
-The men killed had fought and died at the Battle of Heartbreak Ridge
-When his wife arrived at Fort Gordon, she got them a room in town
-Willard went to eat dinner and stay with her
-In the middle of the night, Military Police showed up at the room
-Demanded proof that they were indeed a married couple
-Fortunately, his wife had brought her marriage license with her
-She had aspired to be a doctor, but her father forbade it due to traditionalism
-Instead, she became a medical technician at Butterworth Hospital
-She was able to get a job at Augusta University
-Taught medical students there for three years until Willard’s discharge
-She was firm and commanded the respect of her students
-His job involved handling the records of incoming recruits
-Had eight men working for him
-Sorted recruits into training companies for basic training
-Gave the recruits lectures about Fort Gordon, what to expect, and specialized training
-Military Police Training, Radio Training, or Infantry Training
-Sorted recruits into that training based on interest and prior experience
-They didn’t have a choice, but their input was considered
(00:35:18) Filling Deployment Orders
-Filled deployment orders for the Korean War, stations in Alaska, and in France
-Majority of the new recruits went to Korea
-He had to make that call and never took it lightly
-His lieutenant colonel gave him moral support for those tough decisions
-Had a new graduating class every week
-Because of the influx of recruits, he got ten more soldiers to help him
-Several factors determined where a soldier would be deployed
-Most of the men didn’t have a college education, so that was determinate
-Were they married? Have families? Were they fit enough for combat?
-Talked with company commanders about recommendations for their troops
-Received a commendation for the record work he did at Fort Gordon
-Stationed at Fort Gordon until he was discharged
(00:39:09) Segregation &amp; Race Relations
-Hadn’t experienced or witnessed segregation until he came to the South
-Ordered Army bus drivers to take black recruits
-Felt they shouldn’t be discriminated against, especially since they were in the Army
-Unfortunately, he had no power over civilian bus drivers in that regard
-Wife saw discrimination at the hospital in Augusta
-Some soldiers were afraid of segregation, and many Northerners didn’t understand it

�-Had a couple black recruits from the North
-Got recruits from the Midwest who had never seen a black person before
-He never witnessed any racial tensions in the Army
(00:42:53) Specialized Training at Fort Gordon
-Had an excellent Radio School at Fort Gordon
-After his service, a man approached him and asked Willard if he’d been at Fort Gordon
-Thanked Willard for assigning him to Radio School
-This man had been able to get a civilian job due to that experience
-The Radio School at Fort Gordon was surrounded by barbed wire
-Nobody could get in without security clearance
-He was allowed to go in to interview soldiers
-Asking if they felt Radio School was a good fit for them
-Tried to reassign soldiers who wanted to be Military Police or Infantry
-The instructors stayed with their own groups of trainees
-There were four sections of the Radio School
-Had pole linemen who were trained how to climb poles and work on radio lines
(00:45:50) Relations with Other Soldiers
-He didn’t want to make friends with any of the recruits
-Couldn’t get attached to them if they were going into a warzone
-Befriended some of the instructors
-Organized volleyball teams
(00:47:02) Contact with Civilians
-Had no problems with the civilians in Augusta
-Instructed not to wear uniform in downtown Augusta
-Didn’t want to create a gap between civilians and military personnel
(00:47:50) Army Reserve Pt. 2 &amp; Life after Service Pt. 1
-Always felt indebted to the 1st lieutenant who recognized his good work and gave him advice
-Advised him to join the Army Reserve and take advantage of all available benefits
-For example, the GI Bill paid for his master’s degree and majority of doctorate
-Stayed in the Army Reserve for eight years
-Once a month, he would go to Battle Creek or Houghton, Michigan for a weekend of training
-Once he got a teaching job, he didn’t have to go on active duty
-Got a job at West Side Christian School in Grand Rapids, Michigan
-Offered a job at Sylvan Christian School also in Grand Rapids
-Worked there for 38 years
-Did well with that job
-Graduated 4,200 students
-Taught classes at Grand Valley State University, Michigan State, and Calvin College
-Preparing students for student teaching
(00:50:57) Reflections on Service
-Led a very secluded life until he joined the Army
-Made him more independent and capable of making his own decisions

�(00:51:50) Life after Service Pt. 2
-Got into a severe car accident with his wife near Louisville in 1999
-Taken by aero med to a nearby hospital where his wife died shortly thereafter
-Sons came to the hospital
-Family decided not to see her before she was cremated
-Wanted to remember her alive, not as a corpse
-Plans on being cremated and buried with her ashes
-One son is in the Army and, as of the interview, is a captain being promoted to major
-One son is a dentist, and a captain in the Army
-Granddaughter is a Judge Advocate General (JAG; judicial division of the military)
-A grandson served a tour in Afghanistan and graduated from West Point
-Served as a company commander
-His children and grandchildren chose the Army to help pay for their college education
-Another grandson is studying at Michigan Tech to become a doctor

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Jack VanHoef
World War II
33 minutes 38 seconds
(00:00:10) Early Life
-Born in Grand Haven, Michigan in 1925
-His father was a machinist in a factory
-Able to keep his job throughout the Great Depression
-He worked for Keller Tool Company which was a stable company
-He (Jack) worked a few jobs growing up
-As a caddy at a golf course
-At a tannery mixing dyes
-Unenjoyable job
(00:01:20) Start of the War and Awareness of the War
-He was listening to a football game when it was interrupted by the news broadcast
-That‟s how he heard about Pearl Harbor being bombed
-At that moment knew he‟d probably have to fight in the war
-Before Pearl Harbor he had paid attention to the war in Europe
-Some of his teachers talked about the developments in Europe
-His older brother went into the Army as a major
-He had been in the Reserve Officer Training Corps which allowed him to do that
-His other brother entered the service shortly before he did
(00:02:32) Enlisting in the Army
-He enlisted in the Army in 1943
-He wasn‟t able to attend his high school graduation
-At the time that was going on he was being sworn in, in Detroit
(00:02:50) Basic Training
-Sent to Biloxi, Mississippi for basic training
-Going to basic training was the first step of getting into the Army Air Corps
-He got to Biloxi by way of a troop train
-They were provided with boxcars that had cots in them
-It was a hot journey to Mississippi
-The train ride took three days
-Remembers that Biloxi was hot and mosquito infested
-Basic training consisted of marching and physical training
-Didn‟t receive any technical training at that time
-The drill instructors asserted their authority immediately
-Completing basic training was the first step in becoming a pilot
(00:05:00) College Training
-After basic training he was sent to North Carolina State College in Raleigh, North Carolina
-This stage of training was called „college training‟
-Took place after two (or three) months at Biloxi
-College training was focused on taking mathematics courses

�-The training was a militarized version of college courses
-Remembers marching in a parade in Raleigh
-During college training they were given some free time
-Go to the PX (military general store), or visit Raleigh
-College training lasted three months
-Originally, pilots were supposed to be college graduates
-College training allowed for recruits to get at least some college courses
(00:07:15) Classification and Radio School
-From North Carolina he was sent to Nashville, Tennessee to receive his classification
-The point at which you would be assigned to your specialization
-His classification was to be a radio operator onboard an aircraft
-He was sent to radio school in Scott Field, Illinois
-During radio school he received training on how to interpret Morse code
-Radio school also consisted of learning how to fix and build radios
-The primary focus in radio school was getting trainees acquainted with the radio equipment
-During downtime would visit East St. Louis
-Radio school wasn‟t difficult for him
-He spent three (or four) months in radio school
-By now it was 1944
(00:09:39) Training in Yuma, Arizona
-After radio school he was assigned to a bomber crew
-He flew training missions with his crew in Yuma, Arizona
-Spent three months in Arizona
-The aircraft that he trained on was the B-24 Liberator bomber
-His position on the B-24 was to be the radioman and a gunner
-The gun that he manned was the top turret (gun on the top of the plane)
-He distinctly remembers the other crewmen and got along with all of them
-Became friends with the navigator and the bombardier
-The bombardier was a fellow Michigander
-There were ten crewmen per bomber
-Before Yuma he had never flown before
-His first flight went fine
(00:12:55) Following the War
-During his training he followed the progression of the war
-He paid special attention to what his brothers were doing during the war
-By time he got to San Francisco he knew that he and his crew were going to the Pacific Theatre
(00:13:40) Deployment to the Pacific Theatre
-He wasn‟t given any leave home before being deployed
-He spent Christmas 1944 in Hawaii
-Flew from San Francisco to Hawaii in their B-24
-After Hawaii flew to Johnston Island of the Johnston Atoll
-After the Johnston Atoll flew to Guam
(00:14:38) Arrival in New Guinea
-Landed at New Guinea and was assigned to their unit there
-In New Guinea had some contact with the natives and would bargain with them
-He and his crew were assigned to the 90th Bomber Group of the 5th Air Force

�-They weren‟t assigned to a particular B-24
-You had to fly what was available
-This meant you could fly a different aircraft for each mission
-The 13th Air Force was also in New Guinea along with the 5th Air Force
-Their base was in a coconut grove and consisted of tents
-The mosquitoes weren‟t a problem due to mosquito netting
-Had to take daily Atabrine tablets to prevent malaria
(00:16:57) Flying Missions
-About a week after arriving in New Guinea they began flying missions
-Their first mission was to Formosa (Taiwan)
-It was a ten hour mission
-Whenever they flew missions they received flak
-Flak is a shrapnel based antiaircraft weapon
-Doesn‟t recall every losing any aircraft during their missions
-Flew their missions at an altitude of 10,000 feet
-Ironically enough that was also the maximum distance for flak guns
-They were escorted by P-51 Mustang fighter planes
-This meant that Japanese fighters stayed away from the bombers
-Flew missions from February 1945 to the end of the war in August 1945
-Flew a total of twenty eight missions
-One of their missions was bombing Kowloon Harbor
-Dry dock used by the Japanese near Hong Kong
-One of their missions involved covering an American invasion
-Bombed oil fields in Borneo
-Nerve wracking mission because the odds of surviving a crash were slim
-Either had to survive the jungles, or head-hunter tribes
-Flew missions out of the Philippines based on the island of Mindoro
-They attacked targets in the Philippines in areas that were still Japanese held
-One mission was to support the U.S. invasion of the Filipino island of Mindanao
-Carried a wide variety of bombs during each mission
-Carried 2000 pound bombs, 100 pound bombs, cluster bombs, etc.
(00:21:57) Two near Death Incidents
-During takeoff their engines lost power
-This caused the bomber to go off the runway and sheer a wing off in the process
-They all got lucky because usually if that happened the bomber would crash and explode
-During takeoff they were carrying fuel, reserve fuel, and a full bomb payload
-He remembers getting out of the bomber and running as fast as he could away from it
-Thought that it would explode and he wanted to get away from it
-Only one crewman was injured in the crash, and he only sustained a few broken ribs
-During one mission had to land on the Filipino island of Luzon because of engine problems
-The next day on the base he was walking to the mess hall and a storm rolled in
-A lightning bolt hit mere feet away from where he was walking
-He was almost killed twice due to freak accidents, but not by the Japanese
-By the time he began flying missions the Japanese were on the defensive
(00:24:14) Relationship with Civilians, Downtime, and Contact with Home
-While he was in the Philippines they would have some Filipinos on the base

�-He was able to visit Luzon and go into cities on leave
-Remembers one time in the Philippines he went duck hunting with some officers
-Later learned that the marshes they were in were infested with venomous snakes
-Went swimming in the Pacific Ocean
-Didn‟t have any access to radio
-Kept in contact with home solely by way of mail
-He was able to regularly receive mail from home
-He received his Christmas presents for 1944 in early spring 1945
-Also received newspapers from home
-Supplemented the military newspaper, “Stars and Stripes”
(00:26:04) End of the War Pt. 1
-He and his crew were moved to the island of Ie Shima (Iejima)
-This would be their final location for the war
-Stationed on Ie Shima when peace was declared
-There was no formal base for them, so they just pitched tents
-Lived in a general area with other crews
(00:27:00) Relationship with Officers
-Enlisted men were allowed to associate with officers in the Army Air Corps
-They would routinely play sports together
-Remembers playing baseball with officers and even boxing with them
(00:28:01) End of the War Pt. 2
-Learned about the atomic bombings immediately after they happened
-Didn‟t understand the devastation and power of the weapons at the time
-All the men were in favor of them being used to end the war
-They were on Ie Shima when the Japanese peace envoy was sent to meet with the Americans
-During their downtime at the end of the war they would go fishing with grenades
-Walked around the coast and searched the coral and caves for anything interesting
-Found a few dead Japanese soldiers, but that was about it
-They stayed for a month at Ie Shima before being sent home
(00:30:08) Coming Home and Life after the War
-He was sent to Baer Field, Indiana and discharged from there
-Took a train back to Grand Rapids, Michigan and then took a cab back to Grand Haven
-Immediately following his discharge he took a moment to just relax
-Went to college at Western Michigan University
-Took some general courses
-Stayed there for two and a half years before leaving
-He was a bartender at a local hotel for a few years with a close friend
-He wound up getting a career as an industrial engineer after returning to college
-First found work at a local factory and worked there for a while
-A friend opened his own factory and he (Jack) was made a plant manager
(00:32:33) Reflections on Service
-Doesn‟t feel that there is any great philosophical meaning to be taken away from it
-Just glad that you and your comrades survived the war and remember those who didn‟t
-Feels that all in all it was a great experience
-Got to see parts of the world and the United States that otherwise he wouldn‟t have gotten to see
-Saw that some places are truly beautiful, and saw that some places are truly miserable

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Boring, Frank</text>
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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
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Ken Vanlier
Vietnam War
19 minutes 46 seconds
(00:00:05) Early Life
-Born on July 14th, 1948.
-Served in the Air Force.
-Highest rank achieved: E5 Staff Sargent.
-Born in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
-One sibling, a brother.
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-Worked at Audio Distributors.
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-Worked for trash disposal, made good money.
-Not quite 18 when deciding to join military.
-An automotive friend convinced him to join.
-Joined to inactive reserves.
(00:04:50) Lackland and Okinawa
-Sent to Lackland Air Force base in Texas for training.
-Exercise, training fields, mine fields, fording rivers.
-Eventually joined the drum and bugle corps.
-Initially signed up to be a loadmaster on a plane.
-Got orders to be with instructional repair.
-Drum and bugle corps duration lasted too long for him to do the loadmaster job.
-Shipped overseas as was necessary.
-Three months here and there.
-Stationed out of Beale in California.
-Sent to Okinawa.
-Communicated with the US by Ham radio.
-Occasional letters.
-Remaining debris from war was evident on Okinawa.
-In particular, retrieved an explosive he brought back to base to have deactivated.
-Approximately 1968/1969.
(00:10:00)
-Worked structural repair as a mechanic on the SR-71.
-Met his wife at the chapel.
-Dated for three months before proposing at Disneyland.
-Sent on another tour in Okinawa before returning to be married in 1970.
-Left the military in March of 1971.

�-Good and bad aspects of being in the Air Force:
-Bad, stifling and lacking creative expression.
-Good, life experiences, income to go to college.
-Daughter worked on the Air Force One in Omaha.
-After leaving the military, started a Christian halfway house in California.
-Stayed there for two years.
-Returned to Grand Rapids and joined Dykstra wholesaling, the family business.

�</text>
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Boring, Frank</text>
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                    <text>Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

Larry VanSickle Interview
Interviewed by Walter Urick
June 18, 2016

Transcript
WU: My name is Walter Urick, and I'm here today with Larry VanSickle and I'm in the Hart Library in
Hart, Michigan on this Saturday, June 18th, 2016, for the purpose of obtaining the oral history of the
VanSickle family. This oral history is being collected as part of the Growing Community Project, which is
supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage
Program.
Larry, I want to thank you for taking the time to talk with me today, and I'm interested to learn more
about your family history and your experiences living and working in Oceana County. So why don’t we
just start out by you stating your full legal name.
LV: My name's Larry Kent VanSickle.
WU: And when were you born and where were you born?
LV: I was born right here in Hart on January 10th, 1943.
WU: And your parents' names?
1

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

LV: My parents were Lloyd and Maxine VanSickle.
WU: And Lloyd VanSickle, at the time of your birth, was about how old?
LV: I'm thinking, twenty-five, probably somewhere in there.
WU: And your mom, Maxine?
LV: She was three, four years younger, so she was twenty-one, twenty-two.
WU: And what was your mother's maiden name?
LV: Maxine May.
WU: M-a-y?
LV: M-a-y. Her parents were Max and Maude May… Maude (Weirich) May.
WU: Okay, and in terms of siblings?
LV: I have two brothers: one older, Norman, and one younger, Garth.
WU: And Norman was born…?
LV: Norman was born on January 27, 1941 - he's the oldest one. And Garth was born on June 27, 1944.
WU: Okay, and in terms of your parents’ background and education and work… your father, what type
of work did he do?
LV: Well, he did carpenter work here, there, and yonder. And he was a… he had an electrician's license.
He did most of that work part-time; he liked that kind of work. His full-time job, he worked for Michigan
Employment Security Commission as a Farm Labor Specialist. He did that for thirty, thirty-five years;
that's what he retired from, so that was his main employment.
WU: In terms of growing up, physically, where was your household?
LV: Where I grew up?
WU: Yes.
LV: I'm living in the same house where I was born.
WU: Alright, describe it.
LV: Our address is 2491 East Polk Road. It’s in Elbridge Township, right kitty-corner across from the
Elbridge Community Church. And my dad bought that piece of property in 1941.
WU: How large a piece of property is it… acreage?
LV: At the time... there were one hundred and twenty acres at the time… is what he bought it that time.
WU: Okay.
LV: Since then, I bought that, you know, after we got married in 1965, I bought that from him.

2

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

WU: Alright.
WU: Now that acreage and I'm taking you back to when you were a kid, you know, you're growing up,
were there farming activities on that acreage?
LV: Yes.
WU: Okay.
LV: And not to the extent they are nowadays, where when I was a kid, we had probably ten cows and we
milked them cows and we didn't sell the milk, sold the cream, had a cream separator separating the
cream and the skim milk. We had some hogs and fed that to the hogs. Almost everybody back then had
animals.
WU: So, you had hogs. You had, obviously, dairy cows. Any other animals that…?
LV: We grew up with a couple of horses, we had a couple horses.
WU: You didn’t have chickens or things like that?
LV: Well, I think we might have had just once in a while there was a chicken or two around, but nothing
that... it was all, basically, you know, we had chickens if you needed to have chicken for Sunday dinner.
He was outside waiting for you. [Laughter]
WU: But, so as a youngster, you've got cows. I assume you had various farm chores that you had to do
as you were growing up.
LV: We did.
WU: Just sort of describe what life was like.
LV: Well, we had one after we got rid of the cows that was milking, we kept one cow so we could have
our own milk. And course, it was us boys’ job to milk that cow. Twice a day we had to milk that cow and
take the milk up to the house and Ma put it in the refrigerator. And that was the milk that we drank. And
then in the summertime, we’d take that cow and lead her out someplace where there's grass and tie her
up and she can sit there all day...
WU: That was your lawn mower. [Laughter]
LV: And make a circle and eat the grass. And I remember, I didn't think my brothers were sharing
enough in the milking chores, and so I barked and I argued with Dad a little bit about maybe they ought
to do more milking. That probably wasn't the right thing to do because then I was one hundred percent
milker [laughter]; because I barked, then I got the job. [Laughter]
WU: So, before you review… sized down to one cow, how old were you...
LV: When that happened?
WU: ...when the downsizing occurred?
LV: I probably was… probably ten.

3

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

WU: Okay, what I'm trying to understand here is, say, between ages of four to ten, when you have ten
cows, what was your role with those ten cows... if any?
LV: I think as I remember, we had to feed them and, of course, clean the barn.
WU: Alright, so you remember cleaning, you remember feeding
LV: Yep, we had to do that and at that time Dad had a milking machine. So, them cows were milked with
a milking machine.
WU: Alright, so you did have a milking machine at that point?
LV: Yep.
WU: And that milking machine… were you able to operate that machine?
LV: I don't think so, no. I don’t recall.
WU: Okay, so as a seven or eight-year-old kid, they didn't ask you to do anything like that?
LV: No, we was good pooper scoopers and we could do the feeding. And we had to climb up in the silo
and throw some silage out.
WU: Now, in terms of getting rid of the waste and so on or the manure, were you able to sell that to
other farmers or use it for fertilizer
LV: We used it for fertilizer.
WU: On your own farm?
LV: Yep, and we got, you know, at a pretty young age, we learned how to drive the tractor.
WU: Well, that's where I was leading to… trying to understand: what did you do as a kid, to make that
work?
LV: At that age… and then, of course, we had to make hay and we did that. We didn't have bale hay; we
did it all loose hay. And so, we had hay loaders - the people behind the wagon - and they would gather
the hay up and put it on the wagon. And Dad usually had the job on the wagon, so one of us guys had to
drive the tractor. And I remember driving the tractor when nowadays it wouldn't be acceptable.
WU: Right.
LV: But we had to stand on the clutch with both feet in order to even stop the thing…
WU: [Laughter]
LV: ...we weren’t heavy enough. [Laughter]
WU: Those were the good old days! [Laughter]
LV: [Laughter] So it wasn't...no, it wasn’t very safe, if you look back at it. Sometimes Dad had to jump
down off of the wagon and come up and get the tractor stopped, if we needed to have it stop. But he
was, you know, we didn't get into situations that we were going to get in trouble, but still, it was
something you [?].
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

WU: Well, your father clearly is working outside the home, I mean, he's working… so really, he’s a part
time farmer…
LV: Yeah.
WU: ...almost a hobby farm.
LV: Yeah, he was part-time most of the time. He was... that was evenings and weekends. I think his
intent was to be more full-time. But sometimes you’ve got to have a job someplace to generate some
revenue. And so, he got into that job that he ended up retiring from and it turned out to be a pretty
good job. And so, all of his hobbies and farming and stuff… and of course, once we got old enough so we
could do something, then we would have a list of duties in the morning when he went to work,
especially in the summertime. And we could accomplish that in the daytime while he was gone.
WU: Oh, from a family history standpoint, your dad's parents - your grandparents - do you recall their…?
LV: I recall the ones on my mother's side a little bit better because on my dad's side, I was only three
years old when his dad died…
WU: Okay.
LV: ...and I was only maybe ten when his mother died. And of course, back then, everybody was
somehow tangled up in agriculture of some description. And on my mother's side, her dad, that's what
he did was farming.
WU: Now your father and his… your grandfather. Do you know what country they came from or how
they got here, so to speak?
LV: Well, it's Pennsylvania Dutch, is what it is supposedly. And the VanSickles came from Marengo, Ohio,
up here. Now, I'm not sure what foreign country their ancestors come from.
WU: Well, they're Dutch, they're probably from the Netherlands or something.
LV: They’re from the Netherlands, but supposedly the heritage is Pennsylvania Dutch. Now, technically, I
don't know what that means, but that's basically… yeah.
WU: Yeah, but they settled, I mean, your grandfather was not... was he an immigrant? I guess that's
what I was trying to understand or was he a first generation American?
LV: I'm thinking he probably... I don't think he was an immigrant.
WU: Okay.
LV: I think he was probably first generation American. That would be my guess. And I don't know, I don't
remember any of them talking about that.
WU: Now, did your mom work outside the home?
LV: She did not work outside other than she was a licensed beautician.
WU: Oh, she was?

5

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

LV: And so, she... actually, she did it right in the house. I can remember somebody getting a permanent
one over suppertime and we’d be there fixing hair and just having supper. But then the rules that
regulate that kind of stuff didn't allow that anymore.
WU: Sure.
LV: And so, when we got married, they built a new house and Dad made a special beautician parlor in
the basement for her…
WU: So, she could...
LV: ...so she could do that. And they added its own entrance and so they could grow. They could do that.
So, she... I don't know if she ever did that full-time. You know, it was always kind of off again and again.
WU: Well, in terms of your childhood, you grew up out in Elbridge Township, I assume.
LV: Yep.
WU: And you went to, what, the Elbridge School?
LV: No, back then it was Elbridge Township had six rural schools. And so, I went to...
WU: Wait, stop. You’re telling me Elbridge Township had how many rural one-room schoolhouses?
LV: Six.
WU: Really? Boy, that's throwing me a little bit. I would not have guessed that. So, there's six one-room
schoolhouses within that six acres… or six square miles?
LV: Yep.
WU: Okay, well...
LV: I think I can name them! There was the Shaw [?] School, which was on the corner of 144th and Polk.
Sales [?] School was on Harrison Road part way toward Walkerville. Zeder [?] School was on the corner
of 128th and Tyler. May School was on 144th and Filmore. Houcks [?] School was on 128th south of
Tyler and Sackurader [?] School was on 116th and Polk.
WU: So which school did you have?
LV: I went to Shaw [?]. It was a mile away from my house.
WU: And so, you got to school, walked back and forth?
LV: Walked most of the time, yep. When we was... I graduated in eighth grade from that school. The
following year, they opened up the new Elbridge School. In 1957, the Elbridge School opened…
WU: That consolidated…
LV: ...that consolidated all six of them schools, so they had one Elbridge School…
WU: Basically, across the street from you.

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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

LV: Yeah, almost. Just kitty-corner, yeah. But I never got to go there because I come to town the year
that they opened that and I never got to go to the new high school in town because our class was the
last class to graduate from the old high school.
WU: Well, you did the last semester.
LV: No, no, I never got in there. My brother did. Garth got in there because the class of ‘62 with the first
class to graduate from the new high school.
WU: I'm getting you mixed up with Garth right now.
LV: Yeah [laughter].
WU: Mainly because…
LV: Garth was in with John.
WU: Yes. And that's why I'm confused, because my brother graduated that year. Well, now when you're
a kid...let's keep you in the Elbridge area for a little bit before we get you into high school. Do you
remember any of the kids other than your own siblings that you hung out with and the things that you
did or any stories that you care to…?
LV: Well, we used to play with Jack and Lane Tate. They grew up right across the street from us and then
the Amstutz boys were kind of kitty-corner across the field. Buzzy Amstutz - I’ll call him, Ken - or his
name is Ken, they called him Buzzy. And then Larry Amstutz, who passed away a year or so ago. And,
yeah, we would get together with them mostly and once in a while south of us were Melvin and
Raymond Burmer [?]. And they were all part of our school down there, so we used to play with them
once in a while.
WU: Is there anything that you'd like to share, for the record, any humorous things that have happened
or something? Some childhood memory that comes to mind?
LV: Well, I don’t know if it’s humorous or not, but we used to go down in the woods and have BB gun
fights and play cops and robbers, and we had a BB gun, you know, and lucky somebody didn't…
WU: Get hurt!
LV: ...get hurt. And Buzzy Amstutz had a real good arm on him. And so, there were some guineas they’re like a duck or turkey - but something like that. And so, he figured, by golly, we’ll... maybe we can
get one of them, cook it up to eat it. So, he threw a rock at them, knocked it out of the tree, and so we
had a little fire and cooked that guinea. [Laughter]
WU: That had to be an unusual experience!
LV: Just normal stuff that kids do, I guess.
WU: So, you finish your elementary school and they opened the Shaw [?] one-room schoolhouse. Any
special memories of teachers during your elementary years and one that really stands out in your mind?
LV: We had June McClellan who was the teacher for a while and she lived just north of us. And in the
wintertime, we’d walk… she'd walk to school and the roads would have too much snow on them and
she'd walk to school with us, we’d all walk to school. Once you got to school, you had to build the fire,
7

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

because at that time when we were smaller, there was no fuel furnace or nothing in that area, there was
a wood pot-bellied stove that you had to… it was a teacher’s job to build the fire. And there was
probably fifteen kids in the whole school, all grades. And so, for the most part, there was only one
person in my grade with me and some kids were in the grade all by themselves. And but, I know she...
several times in the wintertime, she’d walk with us, and teachers got paid peanuts, you know, back then,
dedicated to it anyway.
WU: Right, and I suppose as you got older, you might even have to help build the fire...
LV: Oh, yeah. Yep.
WU: ...and carry the wood in.
LV: We had to do that.
WU: And maybe even make sure things were okay before you left the building so it wouldn’t burn down.
LV: Well, that was basically the teacher's responsibility, but she would ask for somebody to help and
we’d do that.
WU: Okay. Now, as a kid, I'm getting you in the twelve-year-old area or so, did you work on any other
farms besides your own, harvesting crops or anything like that?
LV: Well, we did. When we got to be old enough that somebody could think we could pick up a bale of
hay. We had some neighbors, they was...[?] was their name. The [?] neighbors, they were Barbara and
Elsie, and they was there by themselves and they was farming for their brother was going to do the
farming but he drowned up at School Section Lake. His name was Frankie [?]. And so, we’d go down and
help them haul hay. And, you know, just a seasonal deal… two, three days a week kind of deal. We’d
help them with that and then when we got a little bit older, my uncle was Keith Clark, and I can
remember hauling hay for him for a month when he got sick of it because he made a lot of hay.
WU: And that was a long job.
LV: That was.
WU: A hard job.
LV: Yep, that was. And then we’d get all dirty and sweaty and then at night we'd go down to Evans Lake.
There was a little spot there where you could get in there and get cooled off. It seemed to be fun,
anyway.
WU: Did you ever get involved in harvesting, like cherries or some of the crops? Pickles? As a kid?
LV: We didn't have to harvest them ourselves. Well, we had… Dad had five acres of cherries…
WU: Oh, did he?
LV: ...and a couple acres of peaches. And so, as a kid, we had to pick them peaches and help… we had to
thin them. And then when the cherries come around, we had to pick.
WU: And that's back in the handpicking days.
LV: Yep.
8

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

WU: Okay, were you able to pick... how many acres of cherries did you say?
LV: He had five acres of cherries.
WU: Were you able to just do that, pick that?
LV: No.
WU: Or did you have to bring in people?
LV: He brought in people to help.
WU: Okay, and the type of people that showed up?
LV: Well, back then, as I recall, all the while I was growing up, my dad would grow a few pickles and the
help we had were... I don't know what the right terminology is, they were colored people.
WU: Alright.
LV: From Arkansas.
WU: Okay, so they were African-American people from Arkansas.
LV: Yeah.
WU: Would this be several families?
LV: No, there would be maybe one family or five or six people. There was one man in particular that I
know my dad had sent him a bus ticket to get him up here. And he helped because Dad grew a few
potatoes, too. So, he’d help pick pickles and then he helped us when we was hauling hay. We needed
somebody up in the haymow, to move it all around because it was all loose hay, and he would do that.
WU: But he had no family? He just came up by himself?
LV: Well, he had some friends. He had a girlfriend, I think, in Arkansas, because he could not read or
write, and so at whatever age I was - ten, twelve, thirteen, somewhere in there - I would write these
letters for him. He would tell me what he wanted to say and I’d write a letter and send it to the lady in
Arkansas. And then when she’d write back, I’d read it to him because he couldn't read or write. In fact,
there was a time there when he was probably when I first got in high school, he didn't come anymore.
He was getting old. Well, prior to that, my dad worked on trying to get him social security and couldn't
even prove he was born, you know, he was…
WU: There was no record of him.
LV: So finally, they just picked a spot and said, we think you’re so old and so they sent him a check.
WU: He finally managed to get into the system.
LV: Yeah, he got his Social Security. Probably never paid anything in, I don't imagine. I don't know. But
no, he wasn't. He was born in Bogalusa, Louisiana - I think is what it was. They tracked that somehow or
another. He was... his parents were slaves. But he was... I got along good with him, you know.
WU: And apparently he was a good worker.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

LV: He was a good worker. And we had an old house right across the driveway - we’ve since tore it down
- from where we lived. And I know every night after supper, Ma would fix a plate of stuff and we would
take it over to him. He could cook himself, but she felt sorry for him, so she’d always fix a plate.
WU: Get him some home cooking so he didn’t have to do it himself. Well, that's got to be a vivid
memory, especially writing a letter for a fellow.
LV: Yeah, that was... I thought it was kind of neat at the time. I was probably twelve or thirteen and, not
to get off on the subject, but when I was in high school - I think I might have graduated - right after I
graduated high school, I made up my mind I wanted to find that guy.
WU: Oh, did you?
LV: So Butch [?] and I, Butch was a good friend of mine.
WU: Sure.
LV: So, we got in the car and went to Arkansas and like that we found him.
WU: Oh, did you?
LV: We found him, he was still alive. We had some addresses from… I don’ t know where I got the
addresses. We followed somebody else first. And Butch, he didn't want to get out of the car, you know,
because we were right downtown. Everybody was black. And so, I would start knocking on doors looking
for this guy.
WU: What city in Arkansas?
LV: West Memphis.
WU: Yeah, you're just in the state of Arkansas, but you’re in West Memphis, which is a tough area.
LV: Yeah, sure. But this, of course, had been fifty years ago now. But I found him and when I asked him if
he'd ever been to Michigan, he looked at me and he recognized me, you know, and I had changed a lot.
WU: Sure.
LV: He sat there in the chair. He sat there and he always smoked a pipe. He just wasn’t doing nothing.
But we just took him a whole truckload of old clothes and I don’t know what all. So, we gave him all that
stuff. And so that really made my day…
WU: That’s great.
LV: ...because he was...I really liked him. And I was at an age, you know, where we were friends and I
helped him. He has since passed away.
WU: Well, I'm going to move you into high school now. Obviously, you're still living at the farm, but now
you're coming into Hart, Hart High School. And what year did you graduate from Hart, then?
LV: ‘61.
WU: So, you're with the class in 1961 and during high school, are there any special activities that you
recall that you enjoyed or were involved in?
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

LV: Well, I was in the band. That was something that I was in.
WU: What instrument did you play?
LV: I played the trombone.
WU: You were a trombone player, okay.
LV: But of course, you never did any of that. Well, we took lessons, I guess, maybe a couple of years
before we came to high school. But back then, because we was out there, you know, you come to high
school, no money, and so I always dreamt about playing football. And so, I went out for football and, of
course, I didn't know nothing about what they was doing. You know, the kids in Hart, they knew the
coach. And I was just an outsider and so I didn't do very good at that. I went out for, I think, one year.
And then I didn't do it anymore.
WU: Okay, so you played a little football. You got involved in band.
LV: Yep, band. And my senior year I ran track and I wish I had done that sooner because I kind of liked
that and I could run!
WU: Are we talking distances or sprints?
LV: No, like the quarter mile.
WU: The quarter mile.
LV: Yeah, I could do all right with that.
WU: Well good. And so, in high school, you graduated in 1961 and from there what was your next step?
In education or work or whatever?
LV: Well, I was, of course, working all the time. But I went to Michigan State, short course. Back then
they had... there were just eight weeks, eight weeks in the fall, eight weeks in the wintertime - that was
your short course and you do that for two years. And then you got a certificate and you could pick
whatever you want. You can study horticulture or you could study pigs or you could study cattle or just
all kinds of different things. I don't think they even have that program anymore. They’ve got ag.
[agriculture] tech or something; it's kind of a four-year deal. So, I just took that short course.
WU: Alright. So, you took the short course and were you working during that period of time?
LV: Well, I was starting to farm a little bit on my own. And then summers right after I got out of high
school, I had a job working in the pickle station in Shelby. Heinz had a pickle station down by the sawmill
and so during pickle season, which, you know, lasted July through middle of September, I would work
down there helping. We had to grate pickles and handle bushel crates of pickles and that kind of stuff,
so I did that.
WU: Now you graduate, you finish your short course. And what year would that have been?
LV: Let me see. I think I actually took three years to do it. The first year I only took one eight-weeks in
the middle of winter. The next year I took eight weeks and then the following year I took the total to
finish it. So, I think it must have been sixty-three or four.

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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

WU: Somewhere along the way you got married.
LV: That was ‘65.
WU: Alright, so after you finish the short course, you get married. Your wife's maiden name was?
LV: Scofield.
WU: Okay, and just talk about your family a little bit. You have how many children?
LV: We've got four kids.
WU: That's what I thought.
LV: Yep.
WU: Just name them.
LV: Well, Lon’s the oldest one. And then Lance is the second one. Lynn is a boy - he's the third one. And
then Carma’s the last one. Lon was born in ‘67, Lance in ‘68, Lynn in ‘72, and Carma in ‘74.
WU: And your wife's first name is?
LV: Carla.
WU: And it's spelled?
LV: C-a-r-l-a.
WU: Okay, and she worked outside the home for a period of time, did she not?
LV: Yeah, she was all about nursing.
WU: That’s what I thought.
LV: And she did that right out of high school. She worked over here at the Oceana hospital; most of the
years that she worked was over there. And then when that closed, she worked for Mercy Hospital in
Muskegon, and she worked a little bit up at Ludington, and then she did home health through the
Health Department. District Ten Health Department or District Five Health Department at that time had
home health. And so, she worked doing that until she retired.
WU: Well, now we have you married. I'm trying to take you through this maybe ten, fifteen-year period
of your life from ‘65 to ‘70… or that being, what, ‘65 to ‘80, a fifteen-year period. You became a full-time
farmer eventually, is that correct?
LV: Yeah.
WU: And just for the historical part, help me understand: where you started it and how did it expand
and what you got into, in terms of the type of crops and so forth?
LV: Well, when we started, I took over what Dad had.
WU: That's what I thought.

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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

LV: And we had a little piece of asparagus, not very much. And we had five acres of cherries and he had
some cattle.
WU: Cattle, not cows?
LV: No, they were beef cattle. And, you know, they’re something to sell for meat. And so, I expanded
that a little bit. I remodeled the barn and put up a silo and I made kind of a feedlot so I could feed more
cattle. And so, we did that. And then we planted more asparagus. We ended up… we planted more
cherries, too. But we ended up in… I don't remember the year now, it might’ve even been up to ‘90.
That cherry market wasn't any good, for several years there it wasn't any good and so we got out of
that.
WU: But did you do all this on the… how many acres did you...?
LV: I bought one hundred twenty-eight acres from my dad.
WU: Alright. So, you have one hundred twenty-eight-acre farm and all the activities are on that hundred
and twenty-eight acres?
LV: Well, in ‘72 I bought small crop.
WU: Okay.
LV: In ‘72, I bought... actually I bought one hundred sixty acres. I bought what the neighbors had across
the road. They had two forties and then east of the old Shaw School. I bought what Edmond [?] used to
be down there and he had seventy-nine acres and so we bought that.
WU: So basically, you bought two eighties. There’s your hundred sixty and you had a hundred twentyeight or so to start with. So, with those new purchases, did any crops come with it?
LV: No, there were no permanent crops on there.
WU: Okay. No orchards and things of that nature?
LV: No. But in about 1974, Jerry Brandel talked me into growing pickles and we had grew up growing a
few pickles so it wasn’t foreign to me, I knew something about it.
WU: Now, how many... did you have a couple of acres of pickles?
LV: When we grew up?
WU: Yeah.
LV: Well, I think Dad maybe had ten acres.
WU: Oh, really?
LV: And then these people that came from Arkansas, they picked the pickles, too.
WU: They picked the cherries and they picked the pickles.
LV: And part of our job was at the end of the day, go out and gather up the pickles. And then there was a
pickle station. Jack Liebovitz had a pickle station by Twin Bridges. Bob Blackmer… Abe Rafelson was
13

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

buying pickles at the Blackmer store. And at that time, Stokeley’s was even buying pickles over on Taylor
Road. [?] was buying for Stokeley’s; he was buying pickles back then.
WU: So, there's a good market for pickles. You decided maybe you ought to go that route.
LV: Well, and then Jerry Brandel was... he had hooked himself up with Heinz with some pickles. And so,
we tried that and we did that for...
WU: Well, when you say tried that, give me an idea, what type of acreage did you…?
LV: I think the first go around we planted twenty, twenty-five acres.
WU: Alright.
LV: And then, of course, you got to get help, gather up the help, you know, to pick it. So, we did that and
then we...
WU: Well, let's talk about that. How… where did you get your help?
LV: Well, I think we got them out of the employment office or Jerry Brandel might’ve had an extra
family. I'm not sure.
WU: We’re talking about migrant type folks would come up?
LV: Migrant type people, yep. And at that time, we did not have any housing and so we rented a [?]
house right next to us. It was migrant housing. And so, we rented that from them for the pickle season.
They didn't need it until later for the Christmas trees.
WU: Pickle season starts about when? The picking part of it.
LV: It's usually the last week of July.
WU: Okay, and it runs until?
LV: It runs until the middle of September, probably.
WU: Okay, so you’ve got…
LV: Six weeks.
WU: ...five, six, seven weeks of… maybe eight.
LV: Depending on the weather, yep.
WU: And it's all hand harvested?
LV: All hand harvested, yep.
WU: And in terms of putting together pickles, obviously you need the ground that can support pickles.
And the mechanics of getting a pickle crop in? Why don’t you just describe it briefly.
LV: Well, you got to have a planter to plant the seed. So, you’ve got to have a planter that'll do that. And
then back then, there was no chemical weed control for them. So, we had to make sure you cultivated
and then we used the same migrate people to do them and hoe them, usually twice. And so that’s not a
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

cheap task to do that. And pickles grow pretty fast because from the time you plant them until you start
harvesting them, it’s usually forty-five to fifty days. So, it happens pretty fast. But you got to, you know,
depending on the year we didn't have any irrigation. So, you’ve got to depend on Mother Nature to give
you the water you need. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don’t, so that's the way that works.
But we did eventually expand as we got into the late ‘70s. In ‘78, we built our first migrant camp, and so
then we had housing that we could use and so we grew more pickles. And then in ‘82, we built another
building. And so now we've got housing for seventy people. And so, we expanded the pickles; at one
time we had one hundred and fifty acres when we were going at it.
WU: Alright, so at the peak of the pickle part of your career as a pickle farmer, so to speak, you had a
hundred and fifty acres.
LV: Yeah, and that was probably mid ‘80s, somewhere in there.
WU: Now, during that period of time, you needed how many people to help you harvest the crop?
LV: Well, we staggered our plantings when we got into it awhile so we could actually… and the seed
changed so we ended up with some seed that don't last as long. So, then we started picking them
maybe only five times and that would be done. And then we’d go to the next field. And so, I think the
most people we ever had probably was around eighty that were picking. We housed some and then we
had some that we didn't house that were coming to work.
WU: Sure, and how did you get these pickers?
LV: It was mostly word of mouth, you know, people that had been there. And of course, when the
pickles were in their heyday, we didn't have the volume of asparagus in the area that we have now.
WU: Okay.
LV: And so, pickles were the crop that the migrants were waiting for and that was where they were
going to make their money for the summer. That whole thing has changed now. So that was... and then
back then, we gave the people half the crop and, of course, that was it. And of course, as you well know,
there was a lawsuit over that kind of activity. And so now you've got to pay all of these benefits on
everybody and so it's not economically feasible anymore.
WU: So, basically, the rules and regulations of the IRS and government authorities pretty much put that
kind of business out.
LV: And there's machines now that do most of it.
WU: So, you need a lot of capital to buy the machine.
LV: Oh, yeah. But you don't need the physical labor to do it. And I'm not sure that the generation of
people we have now would want to do… you know, that’s just terribly hard work.
WU: Yeah.
LV: And I don't think the generation of people we have now would buy into that.
WU: So, besides pickles and some cherries, any other crops? Of course, you talked about beef already.

15

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

LV: Well, we’ve always grown corn and we grew it sometimes to sell some. And we had corn. We've
pretty much always had some beef around there.
WU: So, you needed hay, so I assume you had some of that.
LV: We had a little bit of hay and corn. And then in the middle, I think in the ‘80s somewhere we started
growing cabbage and cauliflower. And that was in conjunction with the pickles. And it kind of fit because
most of the labor needs for that were after the pickles were done and we had labor and so we could
harvest the cauliflower and the cabbage after that.
WU: You were basically the administrator of all the farm activities.
LV: Yeah.
WU: And I assume you had to do a certain amount of the physical labor, too?
LV: Yeah, I did.
WU: What other… did any of your family follow in your footsteps and help you with the...?
LV: Well, while our kids were growing up, they all helped. That was part of living there and that's what
you do. And they all picked asparagus. Our daughter was not very happy about doing that, but she did.
And then, a few years there when we didn't have many cherries, but we had equipment to harvest them
and then we did some custom harvesting. And so, the boys all helped.
WU: So, this would be you and the boys would go out and…?
LV: Well, we had to hire some people besides, but me and the boys could run the machinery and it took
some, you know, some labor. We had a harvester - you had to put a tarp out under a tree and somebody
had to do that. So, we did that for a few years and then we…
WU: So, that’s custom harvesting, basically.
LV: Yep, we did that.
WU: Would you do that just in Oceana County or did you go outside the county?
LV: No, pretty much Oceana County. We went up to Ludington once and did some, but no, we didn’t get
any farther away than that. Some guys did. Some guys used to go all over the place. But now we… well,
we had as soon as the cherries got down, we had the pickles and sometimes they overlapped. And I
know there was a couple times that we were shaking cherries and they were picking pickles at the same
time and we had to go after the shaken cherries. We had to go and gather up all the pickles and do
something with them.
WU: This is sort of an open-ended question, but what are some of the best things about being a farmer?
If you had to talk about some of the positive things about being a farmer, what would you say?
LV: Well, I think the one that comes up first is that you’re kind of your own boss, the lifestyle of just
being outside and out and about - that's attractive to some. I think being your own boss, I guess, you can
go and come as you please and you can watch whatever you do, make that you’re growing something
and you get self-satisfaction that “hey look here, this is what I did and now it's working.” And of course,
the contrary, if it didn't work, so you're trying to sort out why it didn't work. But that's probably that and
16

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

it's an awful good place to raise kids. And I know that even any people looking for help, if the kid shows
up there and says they've been on a farm, he’ll get the job before somebody else does just because they
learn how to work by being there.
WU: The work ethic that you're able to pass on to your…
LV: Well, and I can have a twelve or thirteen-year-old do something for me. Nobody else can hire
anybody that age. You’ve got to be family or you can't do it. So, there's knowledge, responsibility, and all
kinds of stuff that you learn when you're able to start doing that. If you've got to wait till you're eighteen
before you can do that, you know, that's tough. Some of the mold has already been made. [Laughter]
WU: Well, that's an interesting comment. And it says a lot about our culture of today and how we got
there.
LV: Oh, yeah.
WU: Well, being a farmer, bring me up to date with your activities now. Have you sold off some of this
acreage or are you still quite active?
LV: We aren’t growing pickles anymore. All we have now is we're concentrating more on asparagus.
WU: How many acres of asparagus?
LV: We've got about a hundred and twenty-five acres of asparagus.
WU: Okay.
LV: We've got about thirty acres right where I live that we're going to replant. We took it out here a
couple of years ago. And so, our goal is to hover around a hundred and fifty if we can get there.
WU: So that's your goal, to have all one hundred and fifty acres of asparagus.
LV: Four years ago, we formed an LLC with my son, Lance.
WU: Okay, so you and your son.
LV: And so, that started out me eighty percent, him twenty. Every year, we're changing that, so this
particular year we're fifty/fifty. Next year, he’ll be fifty-one, I'll be forty-nine, and that's the way it will
continue.
WU: So, he eventually is going to end up owning it.
LV: Yeah, he's working into it, except for my wife and I still own all the property.
WU: Okay.
LV: The LLC just owns the equivalent.
WU: It’s sort of the operating company…
LV: ...operating entity.
WU: And so, you can still charge rent to the operating entity to get...to keep...

17

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

LV: So, I can generate some revenue because in the type of work that I've done all my life, the part that's
missing is a big pot of retirement funds. And quite often in agriculture, that happens unless you once in
a while - another plus to being farmers - once in a while, maybe once in your lifetime or twice, it'll hit
and you'll have something that'll be worth something.
WU: Yeah. You're talking oil or gas?
LV: Well or even a crop of cherries. A lot of guys around have had a crop of cherries and they was worth
something and it kind of yield them up. And asparagus has done that for some people, too. And of
course, you've got to be sharp enough to know it when it happens and not squander it all. Anyway, so I
don't have much of a retirement package, so I need to generate some rent off the land or do something,
you know, so I can.
WU: But your comments are very typical of a lot of growers and farmers in our area.
LV: Yeah, I’d have a good retirement package if I sold out.
WU: Well yeah - you’re land rich.
LV: Yeah, if I sold out I... you know, I'd be good. But then my son wants the farm and of course he can't
afford to pay what I could get for it if I sold it to somebody else.
WU: Sure. That’s the way it is.
LV: That’s just the way it is.
WU: And so, the only way they are able to keep the farm going is to work out a program like you have
with your son. So, encourage them to get involved and then eventually they'll be taking your place.
LV: Yeah, that's kind of what the idea is.
WU: Well, maybe this is too personal, but I'll throw it out anyway. What do you like to do to relax? Are
there any special activities?
LV: You know, that's another weak point for me. You know, I don't really have any hobbies. And I guess
the part that I've done for several years - it's relaxing to me - is I participated in community. I was on the
School Board for twenty years. That kind of gets your thought process to be on to something else. I was
a County Commissioner for sixteen years; I really enjoyed that. That kind of gets your mind doing
something different than what you've been doing. But I don't golf, I don’t…
WU: You’re not a hunter necessarily or a fisherman?
LV: Are you wondering, as kids we used to do that stuff, but no, I could fish, I suppose.
WU: But it isn't anything on your bucket list necessarily to do.
LV: No, uh uh.
WU: As a farmer, I don’t know if you're able to do much traveling?
LV: Well, we don't. What we've done here for I think three or four years now is I've got two brothers and
so we try and spend a week or two together every summer and do something. A couple of years ago we
went to Branson, spent a week in Branson. And last year we went down to Nashville and spent a week
18

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

down there. And so that's kind of enjoyable to do that. But I'm not… we have a cabin up across the
straits that my dad and his brother built way back in the late ‘50s. And of course, both of them are gone
and so it's the next generation that has ownership of it. And so, it's our family and my dad’s brother's
family are the owners of the cabin. And my brother Norman keeps track of the cabin as to who is going
when. And so, you know, once a year we try to go up there.
WU: What's it nearby? What town is it nearby?
LV: It's about twenty miles west of St. Ignes, little town of Brevort.
WU: What’s the name of it?
LV: Brevort. It's just a little bitty town. If you know where the Cut River Bridge is on US-2, it's back east
of that.
WU: Okay.
LV: It’s right out in the woods. My dad used to go up there hunting when he was young and his brother
did, too. And so, they bought an acre. And in 1957, ‘58, they built a little cabin. And for several years it
didn't even have inside plumbing or bathroom, had an outside thing. And so, they fixed it up now so that
it's more convenient. And so that's kind of fun to go up there and used to be the place to go and the
phone wouldn’t ring while you’re there. Well, now these darn cell phones! [Laughter]
WU: I know it. You can't have the peace and quiet you used to be able to enjoy. Well, from your
perspective: farming has changed a lot during your lifetime.
LV: Oh yeah, for sure.
WU: And how would you describe the changes? What have you seen that's different in farming today
than what it was when you were eighteen years old and twenty years old?
LV: Well, the onset of electronics. You know, computers and cell phones and all that stuff. And then a lot
of farmers are hooked up on... they’re doing GPS mapping of their fields. So, you can… if you got one
spot that needs something extra, you can treat it that way; there's all of the suppliers of farm chemicals
and fertilizer have people that are capable of coming to do that for you. And then you've got to have
specialized equipment to buy fertilizer and it'll only apply it where you need it. It won't apply it... so
everything's all GPS soaked in. So that's the technology that has really changed.
The public's demands for where their food comes from has changed. Because we take fresh asparagus
to Todd Greiner [?] to pack, he sells it to Meijer, Wal-Mart, wherever it goes. And so, then buyers
require what we call a gap audit, generally accepted practices from a third party that have to come in
and perform an audit. And they look at everything that we do, how we manage the land, how we
manage manure, how we deal with our water and just what the source of the water is. And we have to
have the water analyzed to make sure it's fit for what we're using it on and how we handle our
chemicals and make sure that we don't put down more fertilizer than we need, make sure we're testing
and doing all that stuff. And then every field has to be named, numbered, or something for traceability.
So, if I take some asparagus down to Todd Greiner [?], he ships it to Walmart in Ohio someplace, and
then if somebody gets something bad, they can track it right back to my place or anybody else. And so
that's the public demands for stuff. And that's not all done yet. There’s more sophisticated audits and
19

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

then a voluntary deal that we do as Michigan Environmental Assurance Program, which they call MEAP,
that we go through an audit by somebody from the conservation district. They'll come out and then we
get a sign to put it in the front yard that says we’re MEAP verified, which tells everybody that, yes, we're
paying attention...
WU: ...to all these details and regulations.
LV: All these details and all these regulations we’re abiding by them. And when I first started doing any
of that, you know, I was more of a person that kept stuff in my head and you can't do that anymore.
Everything is you’ve got to document, document, document and for the gap certification that we have,
we've got a manual that's about that thick. We bought the manual from somebody that knew how to
put one together, because when this first came about, wow, what are we going to do here? And so, we
bought one from a guy that does auditing and you’ve got policies for everything that happens. There's a
policy if somebody cuts their finger, there's a policy in there as to how you deal with it. And if you're out
in an asparagus patch and you come up to where a deer has been out there and defecated, you've got
a… there's a policy as to what you do with that.
WU: That’s amazing, okay.
LV: And so that's how more complicated it is now than what it used to be, because they're so concerned
about E. coli, salmonella, all of these kinds of things. And I think, it's just my thought that, you know, the
kids are being raised too clean. You know, we were raised playing out in the dirt and we’d have a
sandwich - we never washed our hands - we were playing in the barnyard. We're doing all that stuff.
And so, I think we built some immunities.
WU: Okay.
LV: I don't think people are building immunities now because they're… they won't let their system have
a chance.
WU: They’re too sanitized.
LV: Too sanitized, I think. And so, the minute that something comes along that can cause them a
problem, it does. And more so than when we were growing up.
WU: That's an interesting observation.
LV: But I may not be right.
WU: Yeah.
LV: But it just seems like, you know, every place you go, there's a sanitizer, you know, to keep you clean.
But anyway, its consumer driven. Most everything that farmers do now is consumer driven. Animal
rights people, they're all around, you know, where they’re growing these confined chickens in a cage.
Well, the animal rights people got a hold of that and now they've got to redo it and make the cages
bigger because the chickens are too crowded. And yeah, there's a lot of regulations and concerns that
show up that are... I don't know if they're in the best interest of anybody.
WU: Well, the technology and the social media out there is just a different world.
LV: Yep.
20

�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department

WU: And so, you know what's going on in all these different states and places through that medium.
LV: Oh yeah.
WU: Well, I want to wrap this up in just a few minutes, but you have... do you belong to any
organizations that speak for farmers?
LV: I belong to the Farm Bureau.
WU: So, Farm Bureau is...
LV: That's the only one that I…
WU: ...that you belong to at least and you work with them or that represent agriculture. And of course,
you've already talked about that you’ve been a County Commissioner, you've been involved in a lot of
community affairs; as a result, you’re on all kinds of subcommittees and task forces. And I applaud you
for all that activity. When someone listens to this tape or reads the transcript that eventually will be
made of this twenty-five, thirty years from now. What would you most like them to know about your life
and our community right now? So, anything special?
LV: You know, I've always had trouble with goals. You know, setting something, and then when you get…
and working towards it and then happy, happy, happy when you get there. And I guess maybe I'm not
that good of a visionary to know where that ought to be. I kind of stumble through as I go. So, I don't
know. I probably if I was to go through life again, I might do some things different. You know, you're
always... hindsight is always twenty/twenty, but I'm pretty happy with what I've done. I'm proud of
myself for my participation and the activities that I've participated in, the community service. And I'm
confident that I've done a good job of it. But I guess history will have to determine whether that was
correct or not.
WU: Well, you've played a big role in the history of this community, and I'm sure it's well documented
through our local papers and in all other types of public publications, so to speak. Is there anything that
you would like to say, the part of this interview that I may not have even asked you about? Was there
anything special you'd like to say?
LV: I think you've pretty much covered, you know, our family history and what we've done as a farm. I
think that's... I can't think of anything that you haven't covered.
WU: Well, thank you for your time, Larry, and for sharing your memories with me. And this concludes
our interview. Thank you very much.

21

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                    <text>Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview Notes
Length: 1:00:41
Ben VanSlooten
WWII Veteran
United States Army; May 13, 1943 – October 30, 1946
Transportation
(0:20) Reaction to Nazi Party coming to power
• United States seemed to think that it was Europe’s problem
• Discussion of history of the rise of the Nazi Party
(1:08) United States opinion of war
• U.S. wanted no part in war; felt it was Europe’s problem
• After invasions took place in Europe, there was a peace time draft
(1:50) Pearl Harbor
• Shocked the US
• Surprised that someone dared to attack us
• Afterward, there was concern that Japan might attack the west coast
o West coast = poorly defended
(3:08) Home Front
• Most factories began producing wartime materials like landing crafts, airplanes,
etc.
• Women entered the work force
o Rosie the Riveter
• Rations
• Increasing number of people drafted
• U.S. O. came into being and provided entertainment
• Schools sold war stamps for $18.25 which could become a $25 bond at maturity
• ROTC
• People were careful not to say anything that would aid the enemy
o Posters with the slogan “Loose Lips Sink Ships!”
(4:54) VanSlooten’s wartime experience
• His dad was a farmer
• People took rationing very seriously; some items were scarce
o Sugar, gas, clothing
• After high school, worked for a sub-contractor of Cessna Aircrafts making glider
planes
• When turned 18, he was drafted
o Drafted December 19
• Before being drafted, he and his friends would look for metal to melt down for the
war (scrap metal)
(6:20) Before the Service
• Worked part time for a trucking company
• Defense plant

�•

Because worked at a plant helping war effort, VanSlooten was offered deferment
from draft status
• All his friends were in the military and so decided to go into the Army instead
(7:04) Basic training
• Armory in Grand Rapids where took a bus to Holland, MI where boarded train to
Kalamazoo then Camp Grant in Illinois for uniforms, shots, and tests
• Went to a camp in Pennsylvania where assigned to battalions
o 4 companies – A, B, C, D
• VanSlooten was only one from group to be assigned to Company C
o Lonely at first
o Youngest man in Company
• After 3 months was given leave before shipped overseas
• No travel on planes, just buses and trains which were crowded
o Even though crowded, servicemen were often sent to the front of the line!
o Seemed that everyone tried their best to do nice for the soldiers
(9:10) To Europe
• 10 days crossing the North Atlantic
• Got very seasick
• Arrived in Scotland
o Had to have small boats ferry soldiers to shore because the docks were not
made to hold the big ships
• Watched Queen Elizabeth or Queen Mary sail in
(9:55) Introduction to war
• Air raids and barrage balloons
• D-Day
o Floating unloading docks
o Bombers
o Troop carrier planes carrying paratroopers to land behind the fortifications
o Omaha Beach was met with terrible resistance; horrendous number of
casualties
o Utah Beach was successful; troops pushed through the first day
(11:08)German v. US production
• US in a better situation
• Germans had many factories bombed and also used up many men and supplies on
the Russian Front
(11:18) Ernie Pyle
• War correspondent
• “lived” with the troops during the war and wrote about his experiences
• Wrote:
o “This is Your Way”
o “Final Chapter”
o “Brave Men”
 The book’s dedication reads: “In a solemn salute to those
thousands of our comrades, brave, brave men that they were, for
whom there will be no homecoming ever.”

�(12:56) D-Day
• VanSlooten was in Foy, England – near Plymouth, England
• Half of Company left the day before but bad seas so came back
• VanSlooten’s company became the first American ship to sail into port at
Antwerp, Belgium
• To get there, a British minesweeper sailed first
• When arrived, there were many reporters and photographers
(14:06) Invasion of Holland
• Became a re-supply outfit
• Loaded gliders to go to England to drop supplies
• Military operation in Netherlands
o British man, Montgomery, called it “Market Basket” (Market Garden)
o 90% successful
(16:07) Belgium
• Unloaded ships and moved cargo to trucks that went to supply the front lines
• Red Ball Express
o First priority trucks
o Front license plates had a red ball
o When came through, everyone else got out of the way so could pick up
gas or whatever else they needed
• Friend in outfit from New York
o Never drove before in a big 6 by 6 Army truck
o Hard to keep up with convoy
o One day, completely demolished a vegetable stand by the side of the road
o VanSlooten’s friend never made it home
(17:48) Locations throughout WWII
• Overseas about 2 ½ years
• Base in England with 29th infantry division (the division that hit Omaha and had
terrible casualties)
• Flew in planes and would kick supplies and aid out of the C-47s
(19:00) Battle of the Bulge
• Was in Belgium during the Battle of the Bulge
• The weather had been so hazy that when the weather lifted, everybody felt huge
relief because the fighter planes and bombers could help the soldiers in the
trenches out.
• Everybody in his company was given rifles and started to set up defensive lines
• Lucky because the Germans never got that far
• Story
o Heard that some guys who played in an Army band (who had probably
never held a rifle in their life) were given rifles and told to “fall in”.
(21:25) Reaction of the Belgium people to the US entry into Belgium
• Belgium people were very friendly
• There were American barracks and German barracks; US kicked Germans out and
interesting because on the wall in the German barracks, there were murals
showing clean shaven German soldiers shooting down scraggily American troops

�•

Some Belgium people were probably sympathetic to the Germans but did not
admit it.
• Seemed like the girls were most sympathetic to the Germans
• When the Germans left, the girls who showed sympathies to the Germans were
shunned
• Dangerous on the streets
o One girl went out for something at night and did not come back
o The German army snatched her up and put her in a work camp
o Her parents had no idea where she was
(26:04) War over
• Elated feeling, victorious, no more killings, could go home!
o Able to go home about 5 months after the war ended
• To kill time, they would play baseball, basketball, football, used to referee for
basketball games
(28:00) Other duties while in war
• Clerical work
o Morning reports
o When guys were missing, would document
o Condolence letters
o Take care of some of the sick leave guys
• Writing so many condolence letters was hard
• If had enough time to think about the people receiving the letters, it was rough
• You got used to writing the letters but not hardened to it
(33:34) Interactions with soldiers from other countries
• Chow lines in Belgium
o Everyone had mess kits
o You would go through the chow lines and put all food in pail
o Lots of Belgium civilians would be at the end of the line where would
clean out pails
o Soldiers would try to leave a little extra food in their pails so that the
Belgium people would get some food
• France
o On a rest leave in Paris, Allied troops were served lots of dry wine not
sweet wine; everyone was trying to get sweet wine
o A soldier rattled off some words in French and soon everyone was served
sweet wine
o VanSlooten turned around and saw that the guy who rattled off the French
was from North Africa with a huge scar across his face and neck with
yellowish teeth…all he remembers thinking is that he was glad that guy
was on his side!
(36:21) Reunion
• First time in house, it felt so small
• GI Bill
• Great to see those who made it home
• Not too many people he knew from home were killed

�(40:50) Companies
• He was in Company C
o Company B also went to Europe
o Company A and B went to the Pacific
(41:53) Combat
• Didn’t fight in hand-to-hand combat but saw a lot of bombing
• Germans had jet planes by the end of the war
• Planes went so fast that would often miss their targets!
(41:59) Stories from the war
• Not personally involved in hand to hand combat
• Talked to a sergeant from the 29th infantry (Omaha Beach)
o Combat was horrific
o Germans would wait with machine guns and just slaughter the soldiers
coming in on gliders
o Some units suffered 100% casualties
(43:50) Tanks
• On D-Day for landing, the tanks had huge inner-tubes around them so that they
could “float” to shore
• No one made it
• Credit to all the troops because all drove right off of ship into certain death
(44:31) First air raid
• In Plymouth, England
• VanSlooten was in the orderly room at night
• CODE PURPLE, which meant hit the air raid shelters or trenches right now!
• VanSlooten was a Battalion Runner
o Run messages to camp headquarters
o Always would have steel helmet and gas mask in cabinet
o Shared room with supply sergeant who was very jumpy – always kept his
helmet and gas mask on his bed
• When got back, found gas mask and helmet gone, his roommate’s had taken
VanSlooten’s and forgot his own on his bed
• When VanSlooten saw his roommate, it was so funny because the helmet didn’t
fit him – it was down to his shoulders
(48:48) Procedure with air raids
• Go to shelters or trenches or underground shelters
(51:54) What war taught
• Marveled at the sacrifices patriots made
• Unfortunately, keeping the peace in not a unilateral decision
(53:04) Kamikaze
• Had a good friend who was on a pocket carrier
• Came under kamikaze attack
• Friend survived
(55:23) England
• VanSlooten was around a big Navy instillation
• He was offered a place to shower, to eat steak with them, and to watch a movie

�•
•

o Was really well taken care of
VanSlooten was curious why he was being treated so well
The guy said he was at Normandy the day after D-Day and anything he could do
for a soldier, he will.

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                <text>GV012-01_UAPhotos_000249</text>
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                <text>Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives</text>
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