2 24 45 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/202e63b7f08efc99b8528ccee82dc72d.mp4 b23d1bbb8402bcebbd3eec8715f7e8cd https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3c8079565f3e6e43fc0f62d5ac6fa5b8.pdf 40acf0d95534eb88182f866ccaffc3de PDF Text Text Living with PFAS Interviewee: Abigail Hendershott Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: August 13, 2021 DD: I’m Dani DeVasto and today, August 13th, 2021 I have the pleasure of chatting with Abby Hendershott. Hi Abby. AH: Hi Dani. Nice to be here. DD: Yes, thank you for being here and talking with me today. Abby, can you tell me about where you’re from and where you currently live? AH: I am currently living in Rockford, Michigan though I am from the Bay City area originally, but I do have a residence up north as well, so I seem to be on the west side of the state quite a bit. DD: How long have you been in Rockford? AH: Since 1996, so 20-since 25 years. DD: Abby, can you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS [per-and polyfluoroalkyl substances] or with PFAS in your community? AH: Yeah, so PFAS, for me, folded in a very personal way and we-you know working with-at the time that PFAS started unfolding with Wolverine it was 2017. I was the assistant district supervisor for the remediation redevelopment division in the Grand Rapids district office. The supervisor at the time-the district supervisor at the time, was handling the-starting the project. Had the-some of the initial meetings-was kind of handling the situation as the initial sampling and discussions with Wolverine started happening. We were-you know the communityconcerned citizens came to us at the end of January. I was not in that meeting but then in subsequent meetings as things started to unfold, the health department got a request for a well permit right next to what was known as the house street dump area, and we didn’t have really good record on the area, it wasn’t something that was on our radar, it wasn’t something we had worked on in our division in a couple of decades. So, it wasn’t something that we were intimately familiar with, but when the well request came in for the health department we thought, well we’d better take a look at it. Things quickly escalated. The first 8 houses were sampled, those were okay, but then when the Belmont Armory tested their well as part of a National PFAS testing for all the armory sites across the state or across the country, they got a PFAS hit that indicated we needed to go back and resample some more. So, what started as a few houses, I think the initial sampling was 35 houses, quickly escalated to-and this was July of 2017-we had staff out there trying to figure out, you know, which houses would be most at risk. We didn’t have any monitoring well data, we didn’t have any ground water data. And so, it was a very, very intense time and so once it really started getting kicked off, for myself, I was working as the Assistant District Supervisor helping to support staff as we were going through this, but then the 1 �District Supervisor actually got a promotion and by September of that year, and was in Lansing, and so I took over as the District Supervisor in the middle of this. So, by, you know, July we had sampled 35 houses by September we were recommending sampling 300 houses. By December we were up to 650 houses, and the [laugh] the real kicker was that in addition to the residential drinking water sampling that-that staff were doing, Wolverine was actually doing it the staff were actually out in the field with the Wolverine consultants trying to make sure we were talking with residents, giving them enough information, it was a tremendous strain on-one of the most intense periods of my entire career because we had so many people calling us and at one point we didn’t understand that-we didn’t know where else Wolverine would have dumped. We had a lot of concerns that there were other locations around the county that Wolverine would have dumped. [coughs] And so this started trickling out into the-into the community, and so we were getting hundreds of calls from the community about people finding barrels, finding what they thought were leather scraps, finding all kinds of things, and so we had to basically stand up by the-by the end of October we had to stand up our instinant command system and have our instant managers, there were 8 of them that came over and helped us through-through the next six months to really investigate all of these complaints, help us talk with residents, help us make sure we were, you know, getting back to the 650 residents that were being sampled, and at that point then by November we were-I had set up with-with the team and with Wolverine that we would do daily meetings. So, every day we had a team of, you know, remember we had two staff working on this in July, and by November we had basically 15 of us working on this daily. DD: WowAH: It was-it was so intense. Seriously one of the most intense things that we did, and so, at one point, we are sampling, you know, one of the Rockford Middle Schools, we’re sampling some of the Elementary Schools to make sure the schools are okay. You know, the Rockford High School was-was served by municipal water so that was good, but all the way around it had neighborhoods that were served by the drinking water wells. And so, these constant meetings and-and, you know it was very stressful for staff, but it was very stressful for the community. And so, the first meeting that happened in September with the town hall was-was before I kind of took over as the District Supervisor, but that first meeting was with our-our field staff were up there to try to kind of explain what was going on and-and as well as Wolverine as well as the Health Department. And it was, you know, like a four and a half hour meeting with, I don’t know, probably-there were probably 600 people in the room. It was huge. The next meeting we had in November we coordinated a little better and had the whole Freshman Center gymnasium set up, plus we were televising it, so we had, we figure, over a thousand people in person, plus all the media crews, plus the Sheriff, plus probably another 200 people live streaming from theirfrom their thing. So that was, you know again, that’s still on YouTube if you want to-[laugh] if you want to go take a look at it. So that was November of-of 2017, and so by, you know, by that point then we are fully in the midst. People are all on bottled water, people don’t understand what’s going on. Wolverine is starting to install full house filters but we just don’t know that we’ve gotten the full extent of that contamination going on, and through this whole thing I’ve got you know friends of mine who live in the area, people that I go to church with, people that I go to the gym with, people, you know, stopping me to talk about what’s going on. Are they at risk? Should they be drinking their water? Should they be, you know, all these questions, and the fear and anxiety was at a level that I had never really, really experienced before, so-so it was a pretty 2 �intense time. Things shifted by the time we got into 2018, we-the state had established a drinking water-a groundwater cleanup criteria for the protection of drinking water. So, we had then a-a regulatory limit for PFOA and PFOS, so, all through 2017, we were having Wolverine go out and assess these homes, but we had no regulatory authority to-to establish an actual cleanup limit. So, all we had at that point was a EPA health advisory limit, which they were working with, but it wasn’t, you know, it wasn’t a regulatory inforcible criteria that we could enforce this as a state. So, 2018, early on, we got that and we continued then to have Wolverine assess more and more houses. December-December-beginning of December we got results. So, one particular story, I’ll tell you about that I think is really-wow it was pretty unnerving, we had had conversations all through this fall we were doing township meetings, we were doing neighborhood meetings, we did a lot of after hour meetings trying to just get the information out to people, but one of them was a neighborhood up in-in the north of Tenmont, in an area we thought would not be impacted by the house street dump. And, you know, when looking at the data, all of the groundwater from the house street dump went Southeast. This particular area was to the Northeast so they should have been out of the range of any contamination. We said, we don’t really think there’s anything in your neighborhood. You know, we talked to them, we said it-it’s pretty unlikely, but they-everybody at that point was -there was a lot of people trying to get their own testing done because they didn’t know what they were finding, so we had people not only sending us complaints about barrels and leather scraps, but also sending us their private testing data, and one of those-one of those houses that was close to this particular neighborhood was-we had been talking to the township or to the Neighborhood Association President for a while and one of them came back as being a-like a thousand parts per trillion of drinking water. So, I got Wolverine to-to agree to do the whole neighborhood. They gave them bottled water, they agreed to do all the testing in the neighborhood. [cough] Three weeks later, we get the results and it’s a Saturday. I’m seeing the results come in. They-usually, because it was a laboratory that worked on the West Coast, the results would all come in on a Friday night, late, like 10 o’clock. So, Saturday morning I’m sitting there looking at these results going oh my god, there is house after house after house in this neighborhood, in this Wellington rich neighborhood, that was at eight thousand, 20 thousand, 10 thousand, I mean like, the whole neighborhood was so severely impacted it was just like oh my god. And again, these are-these are people I know, and one of the families that I was attending church with, you know, she’s pregnant, she’s got four little kids. You know, they’ve raised all-all the kids drinking this water, and it was just-it was heartbreaking. So, for me I think that was one of those pivotal moments where we just go, wow I can’t believe this, because it was not-it was not something that we would have ever been able to identify except through his very extraordinary set of circumstances that brought us to this point-you know in a normal investigation you stick with the area, you know the contamination, you define it. And, we had the house streets contamination somewhat defined, but this was an entirely new area, and it was something that, you know, Wolverine said that it didn’t have any records for. They said they never dumped there. We think that somebody dumped a whole-whole barrel of scotchgard, whether it was something that somebody took home and just dumped in their backyard or what happened, it was such a-a high strength source that there’s just no other way it could have been done. And, unfortunately, where this was dumped at, was at a topographic high, and it was part of a-a-because the Rogue River goes around the whole area, it was not only at a topographic high, but it was at like a groundwater divide, and so groundwater went in five directions. We ended up, from that one source area, having a very strong plume that went off to the Northwest, some fingers of plumes that went off to the Northeast, another plume 3 �that went to the Southeast, all following the Rogue River but from different locations. And-and we were guessing at this, completely guessing at this. Had a Geologist working on staff that did a fabulous job and trying to figure it all out but hours after hours, I mean, the-the staff, you know, we had literally the Incident Managers work with us from like November to March, but even after that it was full time for myself, the project manager, the Geologist, another person on staff, and then all the other resource staff that we needed to keep going for two or three years. And so, you know, in the end we were able to get some agreement with Wolverine to actually get an incentive degree written, get the almost 70 million dollars to get municipal water hook-up for a thousand homes, which we’re very proud of. Plus then they’re going to go back and they have to access all of these different locations where the groundwater is benting to surface water, because we know that there is, you know, the groundwater continues to be a source for PFAS, and it is going to continue to impact the Rogue River for the long term, so that’s something that is moreone of their ongoing obligations. So I’m gonna stop there and see what your next question is. [laugh] DD: [laugh] Well I’m just struck by how much PFAS is bringing the personal and the professional together for you. I’m wondering if this is typical for you in the work that you do, or if this is kind of a unique or maybe a more intense situation? AH: Very, very intense, very unique. I mean, we’re always striving to make sure residents know what we’re doing, and that we talk with residents about their concerns, but this was-you know, this was a project that was one of those lifetime events. You-we hopefully will never have another project quite like this. And when I, you know, now I’ve gone from a District Supervisor in Grand Rapids for the last couple years, and I’m now-have the privilege of being the-the Executive Director for the Michigan PFAS Action Response Team, so I’ve actually stepped up to the state level. And when I look at the concentrations that we’re finding around the rest of the state. When I look at the magnitude of what is at other sites, this is still the worst. This is by far the first-the worst of the contamination, the worst of the impacts to residents, the-the-just the amount of contam-the high strength of the contamination as well as the-the distribution of how far that it has gone. It’s probably got a full 23, 24 miles-square miles of contamination of groundwater, surface water. Soils, of course, not so much but definitely have an ongoing source. So, this is one that I think will, you know, I think somebody will-it’ll somehow end up in a story in some way, so it’ll be your story but the-but it’s really a very unique situation. We just don’t have that-we will have other sites that will, yes, we’ll have to do town meetings, and yes, we’ll meet people, and we’ll try to get them clean water. You may find one or two houses, you may find a couple of houses, but you’re not going to find this. So, we’ve got other sites where we’ve sampled, you know, a couple hundred homes, but we’ve not found concentrations like this. And as you know from talking with people who have been impacted, you know, we had one house that topped over a hundred thousand parts per trillion drinking water well. That’s probably the highest one in the country I would-I would guess. DD: Just sounds overwhelming. [laughs] AH: It was overwhelming. It was overwhelming. Our team did a great job, but I can’t, you know, as with everything we had a physical breaking point where it was just-it was-you just sat there and cried. Because, you know, I had people in my office talk to us one-on-one and it’s, you 4 �know, you’re sitting there after hours talking with these people, and they’re just crying their hearts out. So, it was not just a job at that point, it was really everything we could do to try to make it-and then you’re balancing it with the constant, constant media requests. The trying to balance the-the narrative that’s coming out of the media, and the narrative that’s coming out of Wolverine, and the narrative that we’re trying to promote, that, you know, we’re trying to do the best job we can. It was overwhelming, and there’s no doubt about it, so, that job was much harder than this job that I’ve got now. [laughs] Which seems weird, but it really was. DD: [laughs] Can-would you say more about the work that you did with communicating with the community. I mean I know you said that the whole situation was more intense, but it seems like, especially like the community engagement communication part was also kind of a really key part of your work and just, maybe unique to this situation. AH: For sure and I think this-this really, you know, started paving the way for how we do community engagement now for MPART overall. As things started to unfold, you know the firstthe first townhall was in September of 2017. It was-it was an eye opener for us. We figured people would be a little upset, we figured that yes, you’d get people to come but the visceral anger and a lot of it was pointed at Plainfield township. Which we didn’t expect, we didn’t understand that there was already this residual tension between the residents and township which is something that we had not even expected or understood. And-and then, you know, at that point they-they didn’t really understand the whole wolverine thing so much, so, you know, they didn’t take their anger out on them. But that was a real eye opener for us and so at that point we started getting [coughs] requests from some of the townships, Algoma township specifically, that they wanted to have some neighborhood meetings. And I said, you know I think that's a good idea. So, we started meeting with some small, you know, small subdivisions basically. We had probably, I want to say in between 2017, 2018, we probably did 20, 25 neighborhood meetings in addition to the September town hall, the November town hall. We had a, I want to say there was another one in there as well as all the media stuff. So we were trying to kind of attack it at all of the different levels, not only to try to get the word out to the media, who's kind of controlling the narrative, but try to reach to the Township, make sure that they were supported because they were just as overwhelmed as we were trying to answer resident calls and questions and then getting in there and-and really talking to people one on one, I think, is where we were able to turn that narrative around. Me, you know this-I think, personally, despite all of the contamination, despite all of the-the anxiety, there’s some-one of the things I think that became very evident was that there is a very much that seven stages of grief that goes with finding out that, you know, if it's a death in the family or some major trauma or some major shock, that's what these people were going through was you had the whole-they were very angry, then they were very sad, then they were very resigned and then-. And it probably took a full-it probably took a full 18 months for some of these people to work through those [clearing throat] those stages. And it was very obvious that it was easy to blame, you know, Eagle. It was easy to blame Wolverine at the time. [clearing throat] And obviously, you know, the contamination did come from them. So that was justified. 5 �But they didn't get the response that they wanted from Wolverine. They didn't get any kind of personal connection. [clearing throat] They didn't get a way to talk to them because they were so insulated with lawyers that they-they had no connection. So, we provided that ability for them to, you know, ask us the questions, try to give some sort of feedback to help them feel justified or- in what they were doing. You know, I think over the-the timeframe from like September to November, December, I think we ended up with, like, 600 calls that went to our environmental Assistance Center. When they couldn't get one of us, they would call our 800 number. And so, you know, it was crazy trying to deal with it. But I think the best way you deal with it is on that personal contact, that one on one contact where you're really sitting down and talking to people. And we did. We went into people's homes. We had-we went into if any of the neighborhood Association invited us, we went in and talk to them. We did a ton of night meetings and that really is what changed the attitude and changed this. And so, despite this being the worst of what I see in the state, I think it's the best example of a good response, a great response from not only Eagle, but all of our partners as we work through this. You know, we worked daily at these daily meetings with Eagle or DEQ at that point was not only all of our staff, but we had local health Department, Kent county health Department there every day. We had Plainfield Township there just about every day. We had the state health Department, Department of Health and Human Services was there with us every day. And so, you know we had 20 people. Plus, we had Wolverine there every day. Plus, we had their consultant there every day. We soon hired our own consultant to-to help take samples. And by December-December, January of 2018 is when EPA showed up and they started meeting with us every day. And so, these team meetings were big, but it was the only way to keep the wheels on the bus. And it was the only way to keep the coordination and the communication going. And so, I think because we forced that model and we forced everybody to come together every day, it really turned out to be hugely successful in the way it was implemented. Not to say there weren't bumps. There was always bumps. But considering how long some of the other litigations can go on, how little the-the, you know, actual residents can get out of these things, I think we did pretty well in trying to negotiate a response for, you know, municipal water hook up for 1000 homes, plus some sort of a capping for House Street, as well as a investigation for all of the groundwater getting into surface water and those kinds of natural resource damage stuff so- I think we'll leave-I’ll leave that one there then. DD: Okay. What concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward at this point? AH: You know, that's a great question. I worry about what we don't know. I worry about what we're not looking for that five years, ten years down the road. We wish we would have known when we're doing our investigations now. I worry about the other types of PFAS light chemicals that are out there in our world that we aren't paying enough attention to. But yet they're pervasive-they’re, you know, PFAS is unique in that it has- [clearing throat] it's not only a persistent biocumulative toxin, it’s-we're finding it everywhere. We're finding it in our soils and 6 �our groundwater, in our air, in our-in our bodies. And without a full worldwide response to this and the fact that we are already, you know, consuming so much of this, we expect these-we expect the luxury of our first world country, which includes the use of a ton of PPAS chemicals. How do we turn that expectation around to-to be able to eliminate some of this stuff? And I think that's going to take a long time. And I fear that-[laughs] that the long-term ramifications of what we've allowed to happen in the last 60 years will take, you know, the next 180 years to rectify, because that's-that’s really the big piece. We started using this stuff in the 50s, and it's now 2021, and we're just starting to get our hands around it, and we still don't have federal standards, and we still don't have a national response to this. So those are the kinds of things that-that I worry about. And unfortunately, so far, PFAS has not become-it's a political thing, but it's still getting bipartisan support, which was one thing that, when we started off, when MPART was first established in the fall- in November of 2017, really indirect response to what was happening at Wolverine. Governor Snyder at the time saw what was happening at Wolverine, saw us go from 50 houses to 200 houses to 600 houses and said, okay, we can't have that happening again, set this up. And he kind of threw this MPART structure at us, which, you know, we didn't even, we didn’t realize was coming at the time, it’s all being done at the governor’s level. But it is really what has shaped us. And so, one of the things that we were pretty careful about doing when we were going out and doing neighborhood meetings, when we were going out and doing town halls, was we included all of the legislators because, you know, Senator McGregor at the time, Peter McGregor, was, again, very involved because this was his neighborhood. These were his people. These were his neighbors as well. As well as Kevin Green, who is Algoma supervisor again, very-very involved. And so, that kind of-that kind of legislative personal stories was taken back to the legislature and was really the reason that we were able to get some of the first pots of dedicated PFAS money for response. And so that next year, then in 2018, the legislature actually gave the state, you know, 25 million to handle some of the PFAS response. We were able to go out and do statewide drinking water sampling for all the municipal systems, which is huge. Nobody ese-I don't think anyone else in that some of the other States are just starting to do that. But we were the only one, and I think we still are the only one that has consistently gone through and done all of our municipal water supplies. We've done all of our daycares. We've done all of our schools, we’ve done-you know we're working on all the type twos and type three water supplies. And so that was huge step forward in what Michigan-so we've taken the situation that started with Wolverine, started with this one community. It's expanded now to making MPART really be at the forefront of what's going on for PFAS across the whole country. So now we're getting-we’re getting asked, how do you do this? How do you make this happen? And for me, MPART is one of those things that I think again is a once in a lifetime opportunity because we have an opportunity to be collaborative with and cut off all of the normal chain of command type of situations that you have with state government or you have with any 7 �government and really go to the experts in each of the departments. So, we have seven different departments that are all participating in MPART. Eagle, Department of Health and Human Services, DNR, our Department of Military Veterans Affair for all their bases. We have our fire Marshal, we have our Department of Transportation who handles all the airports, and I'm missing one. There's one more. [laughs] Anyway, we bring all of that team together, and we meet with them weekly. We're all in the same room together, at least weekly, talking about things because, you know, has become very evident. As with our airports, PFAS is much used in all of our firefighting foam, which the airports have to use for airplane crash and rescue. And so, they trained with it. So, we've got large parts of the state with pretty high concentrations from what we call AAFES. But that coordination has to happen with everybody because you got people out there taking surface water samples, taking groundwater samples. DOT actually regulates the airport themselves. You've got Eagle regulating all the media contamination. But you’ve got-in some cases, you've got DNR who may have migratory birds that end up on the airport. You know, they end up in their holding ponds. There's all these weird connections that go in there. But the thing that's so successful about it is that collaboration, that communication, that coordination happens in a structure that is set on top of-it’s like an umbrella that sits on top of the state government and allows us to do and leverage really great work at an exponential rate beyond what we would normally be able to do. If you have to work through a normal chain of command, you can't have those conversations. So, it's almost like what we did in Wolverine with actually getting into the neighborhood, talking to the people one on one, only flipped and reversed. So now we're getting into those agencies and talking one on one with, what do we need to do with Peacocks? What do we need to do? What's our next steps? Where do we need to go as a state, as a country, as a world? And so, I'm very proud of the fact that we're going to continue those personal conversations and keep those things going on. One of the things that we're doing this winter is having our second PFA- Great Lakes PFAS conference. So last year, we were able to have about 1600 participants, all online, but we had three different countries, 35 different States. We had presenter from Germany, we had presenters from Australia, and it was a way to have that conversation about what's going on with KBAs. What do we know? What don't we know? So, this year, same thing. We're going to do another virtual conference in December, and my hopes are that-that we can continue that conversation about where do we need to go with PFAS? I think some of the big unknowns are still, what does it mean to have PFAS concentrations in soil? If-if it's an okay concentration for soil, that it won't Leach to groundwater, is it an okay concentration that it can't be taken up into plants, or that it can't be taken up into the silage for the cows, and then it doesn't get into the milk. So, there's a whole lot more that we don't know. I mean, I think we've just hit the tip of the iceberg for what we do know about PFAS. And so, when I think about what's to come, we've still got a long, long ways. But I think we've at least at the state level, I'm very proud of the work that 8 �we've been able to do. And the [laughs] you know how you-the old expression is, you never get more than you can handle. God doesn't allow you to handle more than he-he thinks you can handle. So what-what was allowed, what we went through for that whole experience with Wolverine has really shaped not only our state responses, but also the way that hopefully we can go forward, because I think the best thing that we can do for PFAS, the best thing we can do for our state, and for our Great Lake States, especially is to make sure that we continue to have those conversations around collaboration of data, collaboration of responses. What do we know, you know, what's truly a fluorine free foam? We've got a lot more conversations that are going on behind the scenes. DD: Absolutely. Before we wrap up, is there anything else that you would like to add that we haven't touched on today or anything you'd like to go back to and say more about? AH: You know, I don't know that there's anything in particular that sticks out. I think that this will this particular experience with Wolverine will always be one of those special experiences in a lot of different ways. But I think-what, you know, for me, it's not just been a project. It's about the people. I’m very much a people person. And so, when I think about getting to know the people around the area who have been most impact, I think of Sandy Windstalt and I think of Jenny Kearney, and we've gotten to know the people on our Community Advisory group or the Wolverine [keg?] very well. A lot of those people then stepped up and are not just concerned about Wolverine but their also now actually participating on our statewide citizens advisory work group, that I’m now chairing as well. So, they’re the people that are great voices in the room to be able to provide perspective. 9 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0025 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hendershott, Abigail Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-08-13 Title A name given to the resource Abigail Hendershott, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Abby Hendershott is originally from Bay City, Michigan and now lives in Rockford, Michigan. In this interview, Abby discusses her work as a District Supervisor in relation to the PFAS water contamination at former Wolverine dumping sites. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3778970e7b323fdddfbc7f2e7d3833bf.mp4 2c2678b17b05df2ab6ff655206cef89c https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a053a58f4ee5da672fa92f8d82df1e90.pdf e80711672394d88ff4762f5d9a1fd89a PDF Text Text Living With PFAS Interviewee: Laura Facciolo Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: July 21, 2021 DD: I’m Dani DeVasto and today, July 21st, 2021 I have the pleasure of chatting with Laura Facciolo. Hi Laura. LF: Hello. Good morning. DD: Can you tell me about where you’re from and where you currently live? LF: I’m living in Italy- in the northeast of Italy, where there is a region named Veneto. So Veneto is- we have Venice that is the main city for us. DD: And how long have you lived there? LF: Since I was born, so nearly 43 years. [chuckles] DD: Thank you. Laura, can you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS in your community? LF: Yes, so I started having some information regarding PFAS [per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances] in 2017 in the early spring, because there were people saying that some teenagers near to our province- I’m living in the province of Padua- and in the province of Vicenza there were tests done on teenagers. And these tests were blood tests in order to find out some unknown compounds that were having very difficult names, and these compounds were PFAS. We were very worried because the information that we were receiving was not official information, so where- this information was not coming from official ways but was coming from other people that were knowing- I don’t know- friends or others living in that area. And they were saying that these compounds were present in the aquaduct, and the same aqueduct was also serving us. So even if we were not immediately involved in this blood test we were obviously worried because we were in the identical situation in terms of aqueduct. And what we immediately started to think was about our kids because these preliminary tests were as I said, done on the teenagers. So we were obviously worried about our kids and what was done at school, because many of us are having kids that are going to school where they also had lunch and were in the last years. It was told to us and told to the children that the best possible water we drink is the- let’s say- major water, so the water that was coming from the aqueduct and this was also advertised a lot in order not to use plastic bottles and so on. So we immediately stopped using aqueduct water. Also to cook pasta that you know, as an Italian is present a lot in- yes, in our food and our- what we are cooking. But we were worried because the kids when they were at school- they were also having lunch 1 �there and everything was cooked with aqueduct water. So again we started writing to our managers in order to have some information because no doctor was available and no information, nothing—also our physicians were not informed at all. And when we also after 1 or 2 months- when we also started receiving the invitations in order to go and get these blood tests done, our physicians were not aware of anything. And so the first- I would say that- the first 3 to 4 months were passed in order- doing a lot of meetings with each other in order to gain information between citizens living in the free provinces that are impacted by this pollution. And we finally understood that there was- there isa company that is based in the Vicenza- near Vicenza. And this company named the Miteni- in this moment now is closed- was producing these compounds since- 40 years at least and was discharging everything in a small river that is in contact with the groundwater. And unfortunately what happened is that we had a so-called free lather of contamination, because we- of water contamination- because the groundwater was contaminated- fully contaminated- and the superficial water- that is rivers and more rivers- were contaminated and the aqueduct water was contaminated also because the aqueducts are taking water from the groundwater that it’s in. And just to give you an idea, the groundwater that is contaminated is containing the same water of the Garda Lake, that is the biggest lake that we have in Italy. DD: Wow. LF: And it is the second aquifer in terms of dimensions in Europe. Unfortunately this is completely contaminated by these compounds. So what happened is that we discovered after months that we were not aware of anything as citizens, but actually information about this contamination was available in 2013, because there was a study that was done in Europe I think. And it was down after the institutions had heard about the Ohio disaster, the New Bond disasterso they decided to test all the rivers in Europe, and this study lasted 2 years. And it’s called the PERFORCE [Perfluorinated Organic Compounds in the European Environment] study. And they found out the levels of PFAS in the rivers of all Europe. What happened is that they found out that Po river- that is the biggest river in Italy and is in the north- was having a level of contaminants that was 10 times bigger than the 2nd most contaminated European river, that is the Thames. DD: Wow. LF: And so they did another study in order to find out what was the- from where these compounds were arriving. So this study was done in Italy and only in Italy, obviously, in order to try to understand what was contaminating the Po River. And they finally understood that- there was the 99% of compounds coming from this company. Unfortunately this was not shared with the citizens, with the relation that was continuing to drink the aqueduct river, to use also to growthe groundwater in order to- for example- for their, yes, for vegetables or fruits that we’re having in the gardens. And so they decided that- we discovered later that they had decided to put some filters in the aquaduct in order to- lowering down the levels of the compounds, at more or less at 500 nanograms per liter, but this was- this level of 500 nanograms per liter was not really decided on the basis of safety or-. It was more or less what they were about to do with the filters. 2 �So after more or less the end of 2013, we were able to have a lower level, but again it was too high for us. And then- we were angry when we discovered that they did not inform us at all and that they simply started to do tests on people without informing the physicians that were also enabled to rate these cleaning sites. Obviously when these things happen, luckily you are not alone, so not all people are having- I don’t know- the strength most of the time to do something, but we were lucky because we found out after months other parents that were worried. So as I said, we started to meet and to speak and to start going to managers, to the president of the region, and going to Rome and going to Brussels in order to find out solutions. So, almost at the end of 2017, we had a confirmation and then we whistled so that a second- there were other filters- so a second kind of filters was applied to the aqueducts in order to reduce the level to a so called technical zero that is more or less 5 nanograms per liter because this is the threshold under which the- yes, the company providing the aqueduct water are arriving with their detecting techniques. That is again not zero for us, so even if now they are saying that things are not solved. Actually this situation is not solved at all. First of all because Meteni is closed. Metini is a company that was obviously in contact with the group that was in contact with the scammers. And so they were perfectly aware of what they were managing, because there was a lot of correspondence between all these companies and they- were perfectly knowing what they were causing. And they had also paid a company that- in order to start- let’s say- having an idea on the cost for remediation of all the plans. And at the end they discovered that the costs in order to remediate the soiled water was bigger than the company level. So the company was sold for 1 euro to another company, the so called ICG [Intermediate Capital Group] company that is based in Luxembourg for 1 euro. And they continued to do what they were doing and in the last years, you know, I told you that the PERFORCE study was done and then the other study in order to find out all the contaminants in the Po River was done. And the results were available not to the public, but to institutions in 2013. So in 2014 the institution provided the approval to this company to work on disposal waters coming from the Netherland Chem Wash in order to- let’s say- they were working on those discharge waters that were used to produce a new PFOS compound that’s named GenX. So they were working on them, on these waters in order to concentrate GenX and be able use, again, these compounds. And this approval was given in 2014, so it’s incredible because we- they were knowing, they were applying filters at that time we were not aware of anything, but they were doing this very costly- these very expensive things done in the aqueducts and they were a few months later getting approval to work on GenX. And again we discovered this later, because we only started in 2017 and the most- you say- what happened- the majority of people were saying to us we were only generating honor with no reason because the water was not safe. And during the official meetings with institutions they were telling us that the water was safe, that the pregnant women and the children may have drunk it without problems. But we have 2 studies done in this area- so the so-called red area, in terms of this triple level of contamination, that demonstrate that a lot of women here are having a lot of troubles during pregnancies. There are a lot of babies that are lost during pregnancies and babies that- so we have both problems in terms of during the pregnancies and then we are also having problems with the newborns that are having a low birth weight. 3 �So, for example, there are a lot of small gestational age newborns having mouth formations and so on. So., two studies are confirming this. Unfortunately, these studies are not linking- were done in- were comparing the situation here with the situation in another Venetal area that is not impacted by PFAS. But they did not do the PFAS tests on moms and newborns unfortunately. Also because they- unfortunately there is no- there is still and- there was and there is still a big problem because they are not willing to show the truth as it is and show the causal relationship with this. I would simply say if PFAS were not the responsible- are not responsible for what is happening to pregnant women and newborns, what is the cause of this? And this is also only 1 of the effects because we have other studies that were done in order to find out if there is a difference in terms of mortality in our area. And a study that was conducted here shows there are more than 1000 people that were- died - and let’s say it was considered as an axis of mortality, respect to other areas of Veneto region. So why this 1 in 1000 people died? And what is the reason that caused this axis of mortality if not PFAS? So, we are now discovering that not only water unfortunately is contaminated, we found out that the most contaminated people were the ones who were growing food in their gardens- vegetables and the fruits- or were also having- yes, animals. These people are having the highest levels of contamination in their lives. So there were studies conducted on the food- we were- there were 2 different studies done in 2015 and 2017. In order to have the results of the study done in 2017 we started asking to region immediately to share with us the results. What happened is that they were not providing us the results. So we were forced to have the help of a lawyer and to ask -to have a trip law- I don’t have the English translation for this. We needed to go to a higher level, and we won this case. And they provided us this results in May this year. And these are not very good results. And so we are now studying them with experts and enrolling experts in order to find out the risk that is associated with the results that we are seeing and that we find and we have received. On the other end we are also obviously involved in the trial against the company, because in the meantime there was a trial that was initiated against the managers that were managing the company that caused this disaster. We are involved as civil parties so we are only providing our help to the institute in order to find out the truth and in order to have these people so they get people paid for what was done. And obviously the main problem is the soil and the groundwater is still fully contaminated and so everything is now, lets say, flushing and going into the adriatic sea, so, near venice because they’re either is let's say receiving the water is nowis then going into the Adriatic sea for example they found out very high levels of PFAS in the fish. So if unfortunately we still know that there are today no satisfying technologies in order to destroy these compounds because they are very strong, the bond that is within carbon and fluoride is very strong and in order to be destroyed it needs temperatures that are higher than one thousand degrees centigrade. At least the old soil should be kept somewhere and waiting to have new technologies in the future in order to destroy them it seems for example that there are some bacteria that can do this kind of or some vegetables that can destroy this bond, but these are still experimental technologies. But, again keeping all this soil there is continuing to -it means that it is continuing to since this soil is in contact with the groundwater is continuing to contaminate the water, the water is then contaminating the rivers, the water of the rivers is then used in the in order to give water to the vegetables ETC. Something needs to be done and has not been done yet on this level and moreover we found out that for example all the filters that are used in order 4 �to to lower down the levels of PFAS in the aqueducts are filters that are made by GAC so they are then reutilized, lets say, reused. So the process, the technology that is used in order to be able to use again the compounds that are in the filters is to, lets say, eat them, the direct result of these is that the compounds that are lets say, absorbed into these filters. When they are coming to higher temperatures, they are simply passing into the air they are not so the bond between carbon and fluoride is not broken, because it needs very high temperature and immediate high temperature. Because if you are heating it very slowly, these filters, what happens is that the compounds simply is detached from the filter and then it goes into the air, so,we have another level of contamination is coming from the air because they are trying to do this to the filters that are used for the aqueducts, and so, everyday we are discovering new things what we are doing now is to so- , i'm not using aqueduct water anymore unless for doing shower and, i'm not- let's say, i'm not cultivating anything in my garden i'm not even giving this kind of water to my dog. DD: Mhm LF: I had a german shepherd in the past, at the age of nine, she died full of cancers and we were not aware why she was having these very terrible cancers everywhere, because she was relatively young and when I brought her to the - Yesterday where did I oh- to the doctor we say. DD: To the Vet? LF: Yes, to the vet he told me that there were a lot of dogs in the same situation and I immediately I remember perfectly what he told me, It is the water. And I was not aware at the moment, I discovered some months later what was happening so my dog now is drinking [chuckles] bottled water and to cook also I am cooking- cooking the pasta with bottled water. We are working a lot, too much I would say and doing a lot of meetings because now we are a very big group, we have a web page, we have a facebook page, we are dividing the things between each other on the basis of what- the time one can- yes give and also the attitude and also the job that we are doing, and, so for example I am working in the field of clinical trials and so at this moment we are working a lot to have new studies done and clinical studies done in our area in order to find out for example the relationships within PFAS and Covid-19 because there are studie that were done early this year in our region that show we have a higher mortality rate and we need to discover if this higher mortality was due to the fact that have a lower way to respond to this virus or because it’s we are having more people that are sick. On the other end we need to understand if the current vaccination program is working with us because the rest are just saying that PFAS contaminated people are not having the expected vaccine response and so then to keep the level in people that are supposed to process sometimes very low and so we are working also in order to find out to do this new study in order to, yes, see what is the best for us. We are trying to work with the institutions, but it's very difficult because 5 �as said, unfortunately they are linked to the very beginning of what happened because they are having big responsibilities for the fact of not informing us in time for years. So they are civil parties also in the trial against mitini but you know, we are not having the same willingness to have the truth really discovered and it's clear from some decisions for example, there is this screening that is done on the population, it was initially only done on people born from 2002 until 1951 so all other ages were not included. We went to do a fight in order to have at least some classes of children entered but only few of them actually did it so less than I would say 130, 120 children under than 2002 were able to do it so. For example, I have three children and only my elder daughter were able to do this when she was ten, now she is nearly twelve and the other two, were not tested, yet, even if this was a program obviously because we had covid pandemic in the meantime that blocked everything and so this is what we are doing the main struggle , I don't know if you will be having some time to visit our website, it is www.MammaNOPFAS.org and you will find a lot of information there about our story and what we are doing and the main struggle is for me, in this moment, is to find the time. The time needed to do everything we have a lot of journalists which are calling us, cryptographers, researchers, people that are willing to speak with us, to discuss the kind of solution, to do new studies, to propose things, and we need to speak with them and to speak with each other to decide what to do, and to inform other people, to keep the webpage open, to also to speak with other people in the world or all the way. In Europe in order to share information, for example we are in contact with the Netherlands people and the Swedish people that are impacted by PFAS contamination, so it's very useful when we are sharing information like this. And it may be a struggle this time but I am doing this- I started to do this mainly, for my kids in order to protect them and what is happening now is that I am using a lot of time instead of being with my kids I am being with the PFAS problem and so, yes it's not easy. DD: Yeah, I imagine not. You kind of started to answer this question already but what concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward from this point in time? LF: Well, I know from the studies that are published, so the scientific studies which are the main problems associated with the PFAS contamination and I also had problems during pregnancies, my first two kids were low birth weight, and no one was understanding why I was having this kind of problems during pregnancies. I was not a smoker, I was healthy, so it was strange, they were not having explanations, they were asking me why- if I- to find out this sort of familiarity for other- for this kind of situation and then the third pregnancy they suggested I take some drugs and they were helping and then I understood why, because I took aspirin, and I found out later that aspirin is able to mitigate the effects of PFAS settled in the, let's say at times at the level of the circulatory system. I have already had one of the effects and my kids also. Im not having, my son is having the problem of growth I don't know if this is still related to the fact that he was born very small so- or if there is a direct or an indirect effect of PFAS, I'm trying to involve other 6 �researchers in order to understand if other kids are having the same issue. And, obviously I am worried a lot for the future because these kinds of compounds are still there in their blood they are not having a lot of them in the blood compared to other people living in our area but it's enough to create damage. So, I'm trying to do my best in order to get them the best possible- the best possible, let’s say food, water and it's a struggle because when I go to the supermarket I always read everything [chuckles] in order to be sure that this was not cultivated here, and for example eggs, the most contaminated things and so I'm looking in order to find out eggs that are not coming from this area and vegetables and fruit and so on everything and the water as I said is bottled water, it bottles up in glasses. I hope that we will not have any issue- that it will be enough not to have other issues other than the ones that we have already in the past, but we have a lot of people here that are having problems and those are the class there near the area of the company of where there are a lot of women with breast cancer- a lot, and there is a big hospital that only treats breast cancer there and no one is having the question why. Why here so many women with this kind of cancer? Also here I have a friend, a lot of friends that are here and I am lucky because I am not from - so, I was not born here, I was born fifteen kilometers far from here but this area- that area is by another aqueduct so its safe at least, in terms of water. I was living here since 2007 and I discovered the problem ten years later, but people that were living here, and were born here and for example people that were using the groundwater also to drink it were having levels of this contamination had already had problems. So I'm worried obviously but I’m doing what I can in order to prevent anything else. DD: Which sounds like a lot, sounds like you’re doing a lot. LF: I hope. DD: Before we wrap up today, is there anything else you’d like to add that we haven’t touched on, or anything you’d like to go back to, or say more about? LF: Yes, what is strange to me is that when we started to understand the issue and I told you that I'm working on creating it, i'm used to searching for scientific documents or papers and so on I find out there were a lot of studies already done on this compound after the compound disaster in the middle aravali. What happened is that all these studies were not considered for us. So, what I mean is that it's said that we are a different kind of humans, because we have to demonstrate that this is also happening here. It's not enough to have that kind of disaster, here even if we are having higher levels in our blood of this compound we still need in order for the trial against mitini to demonstrate that this is causing something to us. Instead the problem is that having this compound in our blood after all the studies that have already been done demonstrating the risk that is associated in terms of a lot of diseases that are caused, is itself a legion. We should not demonstrate anything else we have already, a lot of studies that were already done here that were done all over the world. 7 �Why we cannot learn from past mistakes? Why we have to still demonstrate that they cause something to us, the fact itself of having them in the blood is the damage, is the big damage for us, because it is a big question mark on our future. We don't know what will happen but something will happen. This is the problem, and this something that will happen was done without anyone asking the consent so, it's like being in a big clinical trial without having signed a consent because someone decided for us that this water was safe without informing us, so they should have told us, okay, we discovered- at least when they discovered- we discovered this and that, so, the information that we have so far is coming from studies that were conducted in ohio because they were available and we are saying, we are not having a lot of information to tell you that it is safe or not but at least we are informing you then you can decide what to do. 8 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0022 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Facciolo, Laura Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-07-21 Title A name given to the resource Laura Facciolo, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Laura Facciolo has lived all her life in the Veneto region of Italy. In this interview, Laura discusses the contamination of Garda Lake, the second-largest aquifer in Europe, as well as other fresh water sources in Italy. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0d30f97e1f44a54e1601a1ffe84b2ebc.mp4 7dd9ba4f4d9722e9e80bd1d8786fd6f4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/568f11e547158a7bf9133698f6b2da54.pdf 82fe6913ea7db9c34dfb94c5eac7650d PDF Text Text Living with PFAS Interviewee: Ocean Priselac Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: 15 July, 2021 DD: I’m Dani DeVasto and today, July 15th, 2021, I have the pleasure of chatting with Ocean Priselac. Hi Ocean! OP: Hey, what’s up? [chuckles] DD: Not too much. Could you tell me about where you’re from and where you currently live? OP: Well, I was born in Pikeville, Kentucky, uh my dad’s retired air force so I’ve lived in a lot of places, and right now I’m in Carolina Beach, North Carolina. I was living in Wilmington when we heard about the PFAS (Per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances). DD: And how long have you been in Carolina Beach? OP: About a year. I moved onto my boat right before the pandemic hit. DD: Oh, wow! [chuckles] OP: Yeah, I bought a boat and then moved onto it after selling everything and I’m like. ”Oh my gosh, how am I gonna pay for all this?” [both chuckle] Cause my business shut downDD: Yeah. OP: Right away, yeah. DD: Wow, that’sOP: Yeah, yeah. [chuckles] DD: That’s something. OP: Kind of like, “Oh my god,” yeah [chuckles] soDD: Well, can you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS in your community? OP: Yeah, I remember, um, it’s probably been about three years, I think since the cover-up was uncovered, as we like to say. We’d seen something, I want to say I was watching TV, and one of the professors from UNCW (University of North Carolina-Wilmington) was on there, and he was talking about PFAS and how he was giving- he was stuck giving his cat the water from Cape Fear Public Utility Authority, and um, I was like, “Oh my god,” you know. He was talking about 1 �this cancer chemical that a company was allowed to dump in our water, in our drinking water source, which is the Cape Fear River, and so I immediately, like, stopped giving my pets water. I’d already had a bunch of dead pets by then, they all- it was all kidney disorders and liver failure, and we know that PFAS has got this, like, a cancer-causing chemical, and an endocrine disruptor, as well. So I was like, “Oh my gosh,” and I was operating a pet sitting company at the time, which I still do, and I started taking- I started educating, like, my clients about the dangers of the water and our pets, and those who- you know, a lot of them didn’t believe it, so I just started taking, like, bottled water to pets just free of charge cause I just- I couldn’t, like, give them that water anymore. And then we all started going to meetings around town about this whole thing and learning about it and, you know, and my thought was, like, well, this company should not be allowed to do this, and, you know, we need to shut- they need to stop. I thought it was gonna be right-hooked, it was gonna be that simple. And it was not. And so just- that all kind of went on, and I went to a lot of the meetings, and then I finally just kind of quit. But I was the- I had a couple of red-eared slider turtles at the time, and I was even changing out their tank with bottled water. I didn’t want them living in the cancer water. And then, you know, fast forward, I went to, um, oh man, I can’t remember the name, it was one of the first small, short, independent films about West Parker, West Virginia. It wasn’t- I don’t think it was the devil- no, I can’t remember which one, but I remember watching that film, and, you know, there’s all the deformities of people in that town, cause that’s where DuPont had started. During this, we found out about- and this man in the movie had sold all his cattle- or his land, you know, to DuPont, and he had cattle on the land. Well, they all died and they all had these lesions on their legs, like, these brown lesions, and I almost threw up in the theater because I’d seen- that lesion was on one of my cats, on a lot of the brown and white dogs I take care of, they all have the same lesion on their tails, just like the cows had on one of their legs, and I was like, “Holy cow this is- it’s just crazy,” um and I just- I was just like, “This is unreal.” I’ve got a lot of footage of that, I’ve taken a lot of film of pets I’ve taken care of, watching their decline and stuff, and then, like, on Twitter, you know, all this stuff started with Chemours cause, you know, they changed the chemical makeup of the GenX, that’s what we were being served in Wilmington. And so, you know, we did a lot of research on all that, and we tried to get out there to, like, try shut them down, kind of like a dream piece kind of thing, but, yeah. They were sending the FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) to one of our guys’ houses, I mean it has just been insane. And there had been a car following me for a little bit. It was really- just all this crazy stuff that you’d see in a movie, maybe. But- and that’s kind of- it’s just been really bizarre, and it’s just- the white-collar crime, I- it just blows me away that they can get away with doing this worldwide, you know, poisoning people’s drinking water. Because we know it’s going on in a small town somewhere, um, in Am- not in Amsterdam, somewhere near- I can’t remember where, a little dutch town. And it’s kind of like, you know, Wilmington has let these guys just kind of be on their own and self-police, which doesn't make sense to me cause we still find- you know, they’re finding it and I’m part of the NC (North Carolina) State testing, and I’ve got a ton of that stuff. My friend Gaten and I have some of the highest concentrations in our blood from those tests. And we have high rates of thyroid cancer in the area, that’s just really crazy, um, but, you know, 2 �in the meantime I’ve lost 12 pets to endocrine disorders, and I’ve lot- watched a lot of my clients’ pets die from it, you know, it’s just- in humans, we have all different kinds of cancers and stuff. I mean, there’s - and we’ve got an attorney out of Colorado, but really not getting anywhere with that cause North Carolina keeps doing something to keep us from suing Chemours, so that’s kind of where we are, you know, and I don’t kn- that’s kind of a fast rundown of everything. That’s kind of compressed into one. DD: Yeah. What concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward? OP: Um, just that- what I see happening, pretty much, is, like, these guys get to poison everyone and then they get to come up with, like, a way to fix it, like Dupont making filters now for water, and then Big Pharma is in the mix with their drugs. I kind of look at it as a big conspiracy in a way. It’s kind of like h- it’s greed. It’s just flat out greed and I, I fear that- I mean it’s just gone too far. The molecules just stick to everything. We can never get it out of the water. The water will never be clean. That’s probably my biggest concern. And it’s in the air, it’s in our fruits and vegetables, it’s everywhere. Um, it’s almost like something planned, you know, and I don’t know. Maybe it was, who knows? Or maybe they were just like, “Oh whatever we can just dump this crap in the water.” It’d gone on 30 years before we found out the truth, so- I mean it’s gross, it’s disgusting that this is allowed to go on, you know, soDD: So, what are you doing for water now? Are you still doing the bottled water for yourself and the animals? OP: I am, I mean, down here in Carolina Beach the water isn’t affected with all that, but I’m still in the habit of buying bottled water, and I’ve set up some of my, like, film clients with water service and stuff and- I, I am going around- there are more people, now, with the RO (Reverse Osmosis) filters under the sinks, which is great to see. More people are taking it seriously, but, yeah, we’re still, you know, doing bottled on the boat. I don’t know that I could really install an RO- Maybe I could, but I’m gonna be out and about so- [chuckles] you know. DD: Yeah OP: So- [chuckles] DD: Yeah, I don’t know if you could do that on a boat. [both chuckle] OP: I probably could but I don’t think I need to. [chuckles] DD: Well, uh, before we wrap up, is there anything else that you’d like to add that we haven’t touched on today or anything you’d like to go back to? You mentioned that you gave kind of the quick version, is there anything you want to unpack more? OP: Well, I kind of think that’s probably about it, besides the political group that I had mentioned with their agenda. It’s, like, I- they just- I dunno, it’s, you know, they kind of want to run the show and not let all of us do stuff, so I’m pretty much underground anymore with what I do. I’m not really involved with a lot of them anymore. It just left a bad taste in my mouth. You 3 �know, I don’t- I just- I guess I’m- I think that we should all be on the same page and we’re not. You know, they- it’s just - it’s power, you know, they want power. I don’t really care about power, I want to stop Chemours. I mean, I want this dumping to stop, and I’m the one the attorney has chosen to, like, take the stand and go against them, whenever- if we ever get to court with this, cause I’m probably the most pissed off out of the bunch, you know. And I will say one more thing: I think that the only real way to put a stop to any of this is, I mean we have to quit going to all the restaurants in town, I mean, yeah, it’s - because they’re all serving the water, and they-it’s all, you know, the food, everything, the only thing to do is to hit them in the pocketbook, but the town makes it so- like Wilmington, they’ve put it under the rug cause of tourism dollars. Again, it all comes down to greed. The town just doesn’t want to acknowledge the truth. Cause I’ve been blocked by the Chamber of Commerce for speaking out, you know. I think I’ve been blocked by damn near all of them for telling the truth, but we have to. But, you know, until people stop supporting it and stop- and, I mean, we can’t even stop the water company here in, you know, Wilmington. Um, they raised rates, and now they want the town- the people to pay for filtration, you know, and I’m like, “No, Chemours needs to pay for all that,” you know, or mu- I don’t know it just pisses me off. That’s about all I can say. DD: Why do you think you are the most angry? You said you think you might be. OP: Well, I mean the one who kind of speaks out, out of our little group, who is, um, involthere’s maybe 5 of us in the lawsuit, and I’m probably the one- I’m more of a realist, you know, it just makes me mad these guys can just get away with this and, you know, a lot of people are just kind of like, “Well, you know, what can we do,” you know, and it’s like, “We gotta fight it,” but until we can all be, like, on the same page and fight these guys, it’s- they’re just gonna keep doing what they’re doing, you know, I don’t know. [chuckles] I mean, that’s about it. DD: Well, thank you so much, Ocean, for taking the time to share your story today. OP: For sure, thanks for meeting up with me, I appreciate it. DD: I’m so glad we could. OP: Yeah. 4 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0021 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Priselac, Ocean Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-07-15 Title A name given to the resource Ocean Priselac, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Ocean Priselac grew up in a military family and has lived in many locations across the United States, including Wilmington and Carolina Beach, North Carolina. In this interview, Ocean discusses her experiences and exposures to PFAS contamination and its impact particularly on her pets. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/abb100d30c73b82a187bbf4d334e65cf.mp4 b9bb1b7b937a5a4448554a0f168554ef https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/04b07625422151fcecd8a258aca09db3.pdf b50f9ed446a5081bcadcc81b13b86ef6 PDF Text Text Living with PFAS Interviewee: Cathy Wusterbarth Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: September 22, 2021 DD: I’m Dani DeVasto and today July 13th, 2021, I have the pleasure of chatting with Cathy Wusterbarth. Hi Cathy. CW: Hi Dani! DD: Cathy, can you tell me about where you’re from and where you currently live? CW: Sure! I’m from Oscoda, Michigan which is in Northeast Michigan. We’re on Lake Huron and it is a coastal tourist town, and it has a former work smith airport base in the area which was decommissioned in 1993. So, I’m born and raised here. I did move away for about 20 years, went to North Carolina. But now I’m back and this is where my heart and soul is. DD: Can you tell me, Cathy, a story about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS in your community? CW: Well, Dani, that's a tough question [chuckles] because there are so many different experiences I've had since 2016, when I first heard the word or acronym PFAS in our community. We were told that there were community members or residents that were sent a notice that said that they couldn’t – they shouldn't drink their well water. So the state of Michigan held some town halls so that they could educate the community on, first of all, what are PFAS? Not many people know what they are until they are told they have it in their water or it's you know, in their bodies. So, the town halls were created, and we had lots of community members that, that came and had lots of questions, and some were angry because they were unknowingly contaminated with these substances. So, so, I managed to just listen and hear what the concerns were of the community members. I do believe that I was exposed to PFAS while I was growing up in Oscoda this picture that is behind me is an image from the Lake that I was a lifeguard on for three years. And so, we spent lots of time in the water when I was in my, you know, teenage years. And about five years later, I developed breast cancer and an immunological disease, Rheumatoid arthritis, which could possibly be linked to my exposure to PFAS all those years, and possibly it was in our drinking water source for our community, because the Air Force used the PFAS in their firefighting foam. So, [chuckles] that's sort of the beginning of my involvement with PFAS. When the community had questions and they wanted action, of course, because they wanted these things cleaned up and they didn't want to be exposed to PFAS anymore, we looked to the state. We looked, of course, to the polluter, the Air Force, and had some expectations that they clean it up and maybe test us – test our bodies to see if we had PFAS in them. None of those things have really happened, and that was in 2016. So now we're in 2021, and we've had very little remediation or cleanup of these toxic plumes that are going into our surface water, into our 1 �groundwater, and into the drinking water supply for hundreds of thousands of people in Michigan on Lake Huron. So, we created an action group called Now Need Our Water, and it's comprised of community members, scientists, activists. So, now I'm an activist. Never been one before, but they're called accidental activists. So, that's what I am [chuckles]. We just, we work with legislators, the scientists, the Air Force, the state, the other communities, you know. We've, we’ve joined forces with other impacted communities around the state, around the US and around the world, really. Because PFAS are everywhere, and we will have to deal with them. Everyone will have to deal with them eventually, even though they don't know they're necessarily being exposed. They're produced in such mass quantity and put in so many things that were all being impacted. So that's, that’s just the start of the things that – my experiences with PFAS. We created a 501C3 called Oscoda Citizens for Clean Water, so that we could raise funds and use those for edu[coughs] education, excuse me, and just making sure that everyone knows about the issues. One question I was going to ask you, Dani, was that they’re – we're creating a video, right? Oh gosh. A video so that people can watch this in the future. But we did have a journalist. Her name is a Sara Ganim. She’s a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist. She came to Oscoda to hear about our story. She was going to write a little story about what was going on with PFAS. Then she came to one of our meetings with the Air Force, and she saw what was happening and how they were treating us and the – the lack of action that was occurring, and she said to herself, this story needs to be told. So, she produced a movie called No Defense. I can't remember the tagline, but it's like the military's war on water or something like that. But she created this movie and it's been released. But it's about Oscoda and Wurtsmith Air Force Base and the contamination that's occurred from this base. And there are, there are stories told in the movie that are [nervously chuckles] very sad. So, there were many military families that were exposed to these chemicals, of course, because it was in the groundwater [chuckles] underneath their bases. One of the impacted veterans was Craig Meiner. He had a son, Mitchell, who was born in Oscoda at the base hospital. And, subsequently, they found out that he had been affected in Utero by the multiple contaminants, including PFAS. And so, he was severely disabled and just recently passed away. So, Mitchell is a special person for us in [pause], in that we're fighting so that more children are not affected by these chemicals. But Craig continued, Craig and his family continue to work on this cause, and we're hoping that the movie itself will be something that people can look at and learn more about, especially if they’re, they learn about PFAS in their communities. [chuckles] The Meiners are special people. DD: So, you mentioned that you have become an accidental activist. CW: Mhm. DD: Can you tell me more about that? Either how that changed your life or the kinds of things that you've been doing because of coming an accidental activist? CW: [chuckles] Yeah. I started looking into the concerns of my community related to PFAS, because, you know, I just want the best for Oscoda. Again, it's close to my heart, and I think it's a real gem, actually in our state. So, just –I was actually running for office in our community, just 2 �a local elected office. I didn't actually win that election, but it was a blessing in disguise because I probably wouldn't have been able to be an activist in this issue had I won. So, so, I moved my efforts to this issue for our community. So, we, again, I had no activism experience. I didn't know where to turn, or who to ask or who to trust. And over the years have learned, that there are people that you can rely on that are experiencing the same things. So, we have created coalitions and alliances and action networks and all sorts of groups where we can, you know have more power in numbers. So, I've learned a lot. We've met with the activists related to the PBB crisis in Michigan. So, we had a – there was a conference I think it was called PBB to PFAS. So those, those activists were rea helpful in letting us know what their experiences were. It accidentally came about. I'm not an environmentalist. I don’t, you know, I just want the best for my community. And I want these plumes of PFAS that are in our water to be cleaned up. I think it seems pretty simple. DD: Yeah, it does, doesn't it? [chuckles] What is the status of things in Oscoda right now? You mentioned that not a lot of progress has been made? CW: Right. So, in the, let's see... It was reported, I think, in the, in the, the early 2000s that we had these PFAS clones in our groundwater. And so, they implemented a – what's called a filtration system. Granular activated carbon filtration system was placed into one of the most highly contaminated areas on the site. And so, that was implemented in 2013. And they added another filtration system in 2018, maybe 19. So that's two, right, two systems. We need 18 systems. So, we haven't made much progress. And actually, it's been about nine or ten years. Well, no, it's eleven now. The years just keep [both laughing] flying by. So, eleven years now, when we have two filtration systems, we estimate, or it has been estimated that we need about $280,000,000 to address just this one military site. So, you can see why it's been such a problem for the Department of Defense. If they start, and they told us this, if they start with their remediation and with their actions here, they have to be replicated at all of those other military sites. And now we're working on 600 plus sites that have been identified. DD: So, it seems like your situation, Oscoda situation, because of its connection with the former military base, is, is unique or is complicated in that, say, other locations are not. Is that fair to say? CW: No that, that the firefighting foam, the AFFF foam was used, actually at all military bases. So, it's in the ground of ground and groundwater around most military bases. They used it without hesitation, in excess. They used it for practice. They used it to play in. They thought they had foam parties. It's just unbelievable. And unfortunately, the companies that produce this or created these chemicals, knew that they were dangerous and did not stop creating them or selling them. So – so here we are, 4700 PFAS later. So, that's how many there are. DD: What concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward? 3 �CW: Well, I think, like I said, because it's so pervasive in all of our products. It's being used in so many products. And it's so effective. You know, have probably used a Teflon Tan in your life and um, that clothing where the water just like repels. That's great, because you don't get wet! So, what's scary is that it's so effective and we're so attached to using it and so used to using it that we're not going to be able to stop using it because we like it so much. We'll have to be the industry or, you know, companies will have to be forced to stop using it because we are not going to voluntarily do that because we're so used to it. We don't want grease all over our car when we get our fast-food, you know, container and we set it on, we don't want grease, right? So, they fix that for us by using PFAS. So, the industry will have to, it will have to be illegal to use these products. And it's scary to think about that because you just follow the money and that money [chuckles], they're not going to make any money doing that or they'll lose money. DD: Yeah, I've heard a lot lately about how they're finding replacements, but the replacements are also not great. CW: Right, they unfortunately – they're introduced as, you know, there's these long chains. I'm not a scientist. These long chains PFAS. And the short chains and the short chains were initially introduced as a safer alternative, but – but, they're not. They have health effects just like the long chains and we should be very concerned about their use also. DD: Yeah. Before we wrap up today, is there anything else that you'd like to add that we haven't touched on or anything you would want to go back to and say more about? CW: Oh, yes. One of the initiatives or priorities that I personally have is ensuring that PFAS blood testing is available for anyone who wants it. Right now, you are hard pressed to be able to find a physician that will order a PFAS testing, and a lab that will test it. And you certainly aren't going to find an insurance company who's going to pay for it. So, there are rare instances where people are getting their blood tested, maybe for a lawsuit or because they just took on the costs, you know, themselves $900 for testing of about 14 PFAS. So, it's very, very expensive. But these tests should be created and encouraged for anyone in an affected area such as ours. So, we are working, you know – the PFAS leadership throughout the US are working on with the National Academy of Sciences on their guidance to physicians on PFAS. So, I just encourage people, if they want to know what's going on in their body related to this contamination, then they need to ask their physicians about it. They need to get their physicians educated and know that we have a right to know what is in our body and the contaminants that we've been exposed to. DD: That sounds like really important work. [pause] How is it going? CW: [chuckles] Well, six years, I have piles of papers everywhere, and I hold a full-time job. So, you know I, I actually am, I do a community work also unrelated to PFAS. So, I want to be able to contribute, and it – it's just so complex. And we're having such resistance, on so many levels that it can be frustrating and there's some burnout. So, we, we do try to take a break sometimes 4 �and just make sure that we're taking care of ourselves so that, you know, we can fight the good fight. DD: Yeah. What are some of the complexities that you're running into? CW: Well, like I think I said about money, you got to follow the money. So, when you have the Air Force saying, “okay, we need more money”. And then you have the Congress saying, “you just need to tell us how much money that you need”, and they're pointing fingers at each other like you didn't tell us. And it's – it's just amazing at that level of just denial, really, [chuckles] I think on all parties just denying that there's an issue and that these monies need to be diverted to keep people safe, their health safe. So, I find that very complex. Why this would be denied that this issue exists when it's clear [chuckles] from the foam in this picture behind me, that there's a problem. This is not, this is not natural foam. So, there’s just – that part is complex. The chemicals themselves are very complex. We're continuing to study the effects of those, oh gosh, [pause] getting the word out. As someone who doesn't do this full time, I don't work with an environmental group. I'm not paid to do any of this work. So, how to find the time to do these things and then developing the relationships with the people that can help you. So, I can say as a person, I've definitely grown and learned a lot, since I've done this, there are some benefits in terms of my personal growth in learning how things work. So, I've learned a lot, but it's unfortunate it had to be under these circumstances. But – so, yeah, developing the relationships, understanding the issues, just figuring out how to get around the roadblocks, you know, maintaining your sanity. [chuckles] Things that are complex. DD: Is there anything else that you'd like to add that we didn't touch on or anything else that you wanted to go back to? CW: Nope. I do appreciate your – this project's, effort to get our stories out because people do as you can see. I could just talk and talk and talk [chuckles] about this, but I really appreciate you trying to get the stories out there so that anyone who's willing to listen can hear what really is happening. DD: Well, thank you for taking the time to do this. I know you’re very busy and I appreciate you taking the time to share your story today. CW: Sure. Thank you, Dani. 5 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0020 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Wusterbar, Cathy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-07-13 Title A name given to the resource Cathy Wusterbarth, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Cathy Wustarbarth is from Oscoda, Michigan, on the coast of Lake Huron. In this interview, Cathy discusses her exposure to PFAS and its impact on her health. Wusterbarth has also been actively involved with the Oscoda Citizens for Clean Water, advocating for education and awareness about the issue. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/333878650df1713a98e60a16fc187dd7.mp4 5efafdf197a5b009cf009e22f4641453 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6e6649c770d20570bf2c1db8567cc9dd.pdf 94164b265ecfe1d51f5225df0120f49e PDF Text Text Living with PFAS Interviewee: Garret Ellison Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: June 29, 2021 DD: I’m Dani DeVasto and today, June 29th, 2021, I have the pleasure of chatting with Garret Ellison. Hi, Garret! GE: Hi, Dani. DD: Garret, can you tell me where you are from and where you currently live? GE: Well, I’m, [chuckles], I guess I’m from Traverse City. I grew up and went to school in Traverse City. Graduated high school up there in 2001 and then, I went to the community college there at [MC?] and started a journalism career — or studying journalism brought me to Central Michigan where I got a bachelor’s degree and I now work for MLive as the Statewide Environmental Reporter. I’ve done that since 2015-2014 and I currently live in Kalamazoo. I’ve bounced around — Traverse City, Mount Pleasant, Grand Rapids. I did a lot — a lot of the stuff we’re going to talk about today happened when I live in the Grand Rapids-Kent County area. DD: And how long have you been in Kalamazoo? GE: Since 2019. I moved down here to be closer to my daughter who moved away with my ex in 2018. So, [chuckles] I’ll get into some of that because it ties into the story a little bit. DD: Alright, let’s just get rolling then. Can you please tell me a story about your experience with PFAS [per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances] or PFAS in your community? GE: Sure, I guess what I can tell you is a little bit about the — the best story that I have to tell is the way the news broke around the Wolverine Worldwide contamination in the RockfordBelmont area and I think the place to begin is with an email that I got I — I pulled it up. So, it was July 19, yep, 2017, and I was in Alabaster Township over on the sunrise side of the state — near Tawas. Just south of Tawas. At what would be — would’ve been my father and mother in-laws’ bedroom where I was working— you know had I gotten married to my ex, my daughter’s mother. So, we were up visiting during the week, and I was working, you know, remotely and they were, you know, my daughter was little over 1 years old at the time. She’s still pretty little. And so, we were up near — Haley is her — my ex’s name and my daughter’s name is Olive. And so, we were up with Haley’s parents, and I got an email from a woman named Lynn McIntosh. And her email is lmarie003, right, and I didn’t understand it at the time but the 003 is sort of a cute James Bond reference [laughs] — like she’s [Agent 003?]. 1 �DD: [laughs] GE: And she said she had read a lot of articles that I had written, and she follows the PFAS issue pretty closely and she wanted to tell me a possible lead on a story about related to PFOS [perand polyfluoroalkyl substances] sources in Northern Kent County other than Plainfield Township. And so, at this point, I had written fairly extensively about Wurtsmith Air Force Base in Oscoda which like is the first place in Michigan that PFAS had ever been discovered. And through that reporting, I had learned that the chemicals were in the township municipal water supply in Plainfield at sort of moderate levels. I think were — nothing that really exceeded the EPA’s 70 parts per trillion health advisory level, but nevertheless, sort of concerning. So, I had written in 2016 an article about that, right so, Plainfield, Ann Arbor, detection of these chemicals in public drinking water— and it was some of the first reporting in Michigan about PFAS and drinking water. So it was real early — you know there was a reaction to it, but it wasn’t like, you know, had you written that story now, people would — “oh, no” — they’d really go nuts. People didn’t quite understand it then. So, I got this email from a lady named Lynn talking about possible sources in Kent County — Northern Kent County and it really piqued my interest because nobody knew why it was getting into Plainfield Township’s water. There was a suspicion that it was a [super fun side?] on the East Beltline but hadn’t been determined yet. And there was suspicion that it could from a gravel pit on the other side of the — the Grand River which subsequently would discover was a Wolverine dump site. But none of this had been discovered yet. And so, Lynn McIntosh asked to meet. And so — I didn’t get back to her right away. [laughs] I got back to her few days later on the 21st. And I said — I apologized for — the delay — sometimes it takes me a few days, you know, — just to — I get emails from lots of different people, and you’ve got to decide, do I respond to this person? Because everybody promises they’ve got a story, and they’ve got a big scoop. And it’s like, some of them are just cranks. And you just don’t — you just don’t want to — want to give them a reply because then you get pulled in. DD: [um-hum] GE: But Lynn had enough detail. And she mentioned something — she mentioned something in her email — or emails — about a tannery. And that — triggered something in my mind because — I had moved to Sparta in October 2016 from Grand Rapids with my, you know, ex and our — our infant daughter. Sparta, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Sparta, but it’s not — there’s not a lot to do there. [chuckles] DD: [chuckles] 2 �GE: But it’s close to Rockford, you know, it’s, you know, a 5-10 minute drive. So, in the evenings, we would go to Rockford and we would walk the White Pine trail with Olive in the stroller. And, you know, it’s kind of nice downtown, and there’s the dam. And just, you know, if you’re going to go for a stroll with a kid, it’s a — it’s a more desirable place to do that. And so, we’ve been walking the white pine trails a few times, and we’re walking past this big, empty property north of downtown Rockford and I keep looking at it like, why is there a fence here? What is this? I just didn’t know what the property used to be. But it looked like a pollution site, right? I’ve been doing environmental stuff for a while, and I was kind of like, [hmmm] something’s going on here. This is prime real-estate downtown. It would be built on if there wasn’t some sort of contamination error issue going on here. So, I remember flagging down a police officer, one of the bike cops that just sort of [roams around?], and I was like “Hey is there something wrong with that property?”. And I got a “Oh, no —no I don’t know anything about it, you know”. And I’m like, “you don’t know anything about that property, you know, mister police officer who live in Rockford and works in Rockford and this is downtown Rockford?” [mimics garbled response from police officer] DD: [chuckles] GE: So, I had kind of been like [huh]. Through this email with Lynn, I learned that this was the Wolverine Worldwide tannery. And — it — it just sort of clicked that — that could be interesting. And so, I agreed to meet Lynn a few days later and we walked — we walked from the Rockford Dam up to — a spot on the river right next to where the foot depot is, right. So, there is the existing building on the tannery site — the only thing that is left. And it used to be the manufacturing facility itself, but now it’s just a shoe store. DD: [um-hum] And so, Lynn’s kind of like, you’ve got to see this. There’s still a ton of leather and stuff leftover from the tannery itself right here in the riverbank. And I’m like, really? And so, we push all this brush aside on the riverbank, it was pretty overgrown at the time, I mean you walked the trail and could see the river but it’s not like it is now after the EPA clean up, where, you know, it’s been — all that underbrush and vegetation has been removed. So, we push aside this — all this vegetation and just look down and it’s just leather litter. It’s — it’s — like old scraps of the leather, the trimmings, right, from the manufacturing process. And — and — pieces of shoe, rubber soles — rubber shoe soles. And it was obvious right? Anybody could’ve figured it out. I mean — there was even a— a— a sole, a full rubber sole of a shoe that said hush puppies on it. [laughs] So — I mean it’s like, huh. DD: Yeah. GE: So, I took a bunch of pictures of this, and immediately I’m like, well, if a company is going to leave this here, right here on the riverbank for anyone to find, it’s got their name on it — what else have they left, you know? So, everything was sort of [hmm] — this is —Lynn McIntosh is 3 �definitely not just a crank or someone who was just emailing me, right? There’s something here for sure. So, I started to really get into, alright, what’s going on? And so, she shows me the leather scraps — which those photos really caught people’s attention, right? Just that — the idea that this stuff is still littering the river and it has the company’s name on it and it’s been there for years. And it’s been there for so long that like, it had become a part of the riverbank. Like trees had grown up around it. Big trees. And you know, to hear Lynn tell it, it was just the tip of the iceberg. You know, I mean like, the whole riverbank was made of leather, more or less, you know, in fact there’s and island on the river that they call the “Island of the Lost Soles”. DD: [chuckles] GE: You know, because it was supposedly built on leather trimmings, and leather hides and stuff that hadn’t been, you know, used as infill. DD: Wow. GE: So, [sighs] so she — you know I go over to Lynn’s house, and she drops theses huge binders of like, you know, paperwork, old reports [foil materials?], emails, her own sort of, you know, sketches and drawings like her decade of —near decade work on the tannery and the contamination issue there. And you know, it was like, it was overwhelming — like oh man. [laughs] And so, I started to go through it and talk to her and sort of understand what the concern was which ended up being they put a ton of scotch guard on that leather and — they had — you know her group, CCRR, [Concerned Citizens for Responsible Redevelopment], was initially the “R”, but they changed it to be “remediation” later on — you know had learned about all the scotch guard use and was arguing with Wolverine to try to get them to do more with the remediation at the tannery site. And they were having all kinds of problems because there was a guy at Michigan Department of Environmental Quality who was real friendly to Wolverine, and you know, he just didn’t take them seriously at all and didn’t like Lynn clearly at all. She seemed to have rubbed him the wrong way. [sighs] And so, we start to scope out a story about, you know, this issue with the PFAS in the river. It had been found with some surface water testing a few years prior that’s they knew for sure it was there — and like look at all this, I mean the leather scraps, and the river, and the tannery, and the fish was the first story that we worked on. And that was — I think we finally got that ready to go in late August. Let me Google the date. [typing sounds] August 23, 2017, right. So, it was ready to go about a week or so before that, but the Corner Bar in Rockford caught fire on like, the day that we were going to publish this story. And so, we held on to it. To not, I mean —sort of for us — just community sensitivity reasons. I mean it was like, okay, we’re not gonna — [laughs] the community of Rockford is mourning the loss of an institution right now., we’re not going to just the same day put this story out there about how there’s this big pollution problem in the river right downtown. I mean, it’s there, it can wait a week. 4 �So, we waited a week and then published it on the 23rd of August — and [sighs][chuckles] I feel like I already glossed over so much just by — at this point — so while I was reporting out that story in August, I got a phone call from Lynn, who, you know, [sighs] had just found sort of just through the grapevine that the DEQ [Michigan Department of Environmental Quality], they’re now called EAGLE [Environment And Great Lakes Energy] — it’s a cute acronym —they were handing out bottled water on a street in Belmont — where the chemicals were being found in people’s private drinking wells. DD: [huh] GE: And she was all excited — like not in a good way but like “oh my god, they found — they found this stuff at like, eighteen-hundred parts per trillion”, probably more, but I’d have to go find the notebook, but she was like, “really high levels at someone’s well on House Street”. And I remember writing it down like, “House Street, where the hell is House Street?”, right, like I didn’t even know where that was, and I thought, what a silly name for a street — like “building avenue”. [chuckles] DD: [laughs] GE: So, before the first story about the river published, we learned about what was happening on House Street— but, I mean, at that point it’s like, “oh, man, you know, what do I do?” You know, I’ve reported on this story, it’s focused on the river, and this issue with the tannery, and it became — so I started looking at House Street too and it became clear that this is a Wolverine Worldwide problem as well — and so, you know, the focus — the decision was — well let’s get the first story out and then follow up pretty quickly — as soon as you can. And so, you know, by the time the story was published on the 23rd, I had already started pivoting to House Street and I was trying to — I was — I had gotten a good briefing on the issue from the guy at the DEQ. His name was David O’Donnell. And he kind of ends up being a villain in this story. [long sigh] I don’t know if villain is the best way to put it, but he does not come across well. I mean like, you know, if you go back and look at some of the decisions that he made, you know, he not a [sighs] — the people who live on House Street, right, are not a fan of David O’Donnell — neither is Lynn McIntosh or anyone who, you know, works for the CCRR because he had been sort of a gatekeeper at DEQ — in charge of sort of the site, the Wolverine tannery site. Come to find out, he had been really — he had been a bit of an impediment to this stuff being discovered and being dealt with — something of a poster child for regulator captures in some ways. But what had happened, you know, CCRR and Lynn McIntosh — her group had been gathering all this evidence about Wolverine’s scotch guard use and had been taking it to David O’Donnell and the DEQ and trying to go, “Hey, look. Look at where they — this stuffs in the river right here in Rockford, you know, Wolverine’s patent [chuckles] clearly demonstrates that they use these chemicals, there’s all kinds of references to is even if” — but of course their lawyers are denying that they did and you know — you know even denying that they knew anything about scotch guard or PFAS and just the way that lawyers deny stuff like that. 5 �[sighs] So, once I found out about House Street, I had been back and forth with David O’Donnell about the river story, you know, just sort of reporting that stuff out and I had followed the [foyer?] request for, you know, Wolverine’s investigation — river investigation workplan, and so once I found out about House Street, I called David O’Donnell and said “What are you doing on House Street?”. This was like one of those “oh shit, caught us moments” because I had been talking to him about Wolverine and the river and PFAS and all this stuff for weeks, but he never mentioned that up in this neighborhood Belmont, nearby, we are investigating whether this stuff is in drinking water and ground water around an old landfill that they used to use. And they had been doing that — they started doing that in the spring. DD: [hmm] GE: So, months before Lynn McIntosh had ever emailed me, they had started doing work out there. The reason that they had started doing work up there is because of the Kent County Health Department, right, and — and there’s a big backstory there involving Lynn’s groups and trying to get information to the DEQ and trying to get enough evidence to force them to start investing this issue. There’s a woman at the health department named Sarah Simmons, who really played a big role in sorting of forcing David O’Donnell to move up a timeline for investigating this — this stuff there. He would’ve sat on that until 2018 or later, you know. And so — [chuckles] so my phone call with David O’Donnell was very much like, “Oh, you found out about that. Well, okay, why don’t you come on over to our office and I’ll sit you down and tell you everything that’s going on there”. And so, he — I went over to the State Office Building in Downtown GR [Grand Rapids], where the DEQ had it’s — Remediation Division Office, and it’s just a walk from MLive’s office to the State’s Office downtown. He put a map in front of me, you know, with like a color-coded — like oh here’s the property with really bad — red [laughs] — where we think there’s really high levels [sighs] and it was like “oh, man”. So, he laid it all out for me, so I had enough for a story, right? I have an official source from the government confirming that there’s an investigation going on — here’s what the investigation is about and here’s the properties, you know, that are at concern. But [sighs] you know, [sighs] that’s — that’s like the bare minimum for a story like this and I wanted to get some people who live in the — who live in the area, who live in the affected neighborhood. And so, I was really — working hard to try and get like anyone on House Street. [chuckles] The first story that I wrote doesn’t have anyone who lives on House Street. It had someone who grew up on House Street — a woman named Brandy Glaskey who is actually a loose family connection of mine — who is like [sighs] my grandma’s sister’s son’s wife. I think that’s third cousin or something like that or something removed? I never really figured it out, but I remember seeing her at family gatherings growing up anyway so somehow I put together because we were like friends on Facebook that she grew – oh no I saw her name -I had gone down the street, writing down all the -y’know knocking on doors but you know you are working during the day, nobody is home, nobody is answering. Those people that do answer like don’t want anything to do with a reporter, there was a pregnant woman answered, you know a pregnant woman answered. I don’t remember the exact address but, there were these bottles of water like 6 �four little twenty-ounce bottles of water sitting there with like a note on top. And like you know pregnant woman answers with a little kid behind her, and I’m like thinking “oh man” you know, contamination in the drinking water, its never good for -I mean pregnant women and kids are vulnerable populations. So, you know everything just- you know shaping up that this was bad news but. And so, I’m writing down addresses and and searching the people behind those addresses and trying to find phone numbers and stuff to call them and figuring out who lives here and sort of this sort of this basic investigative backgrounding work. And then I googled 18-50 – It think [sighs] I didn’t google – no 1850 house street, and I put that together with Joel Stelt. And I googled his name and an obituary popped up immediately, and it was recent. Like a year old, 2016. And it mentioned cancer? And it was like “oh no” you know? I mean it was just like one of those -all the pieces are -all the red flags are just you know stacking up. [sighs]. So, I eventually was able to get enough information out of DEQ, I was able to get a FIAO request with a lot of old files, historical sort of records showing that yes Wolverine dumped here on this property, and this was the dates, and there was a lot of old water resources commissions records and stuff. And so, I had a lot information and I had a lot of experience with the chemicals and what they can do and how far they can go and what the safety thresholds and stuff were, and who the experts talked to about this stuff because I had spent a lot of time at -reporting wordsmith. And so [sighs] the story about the river didn’t get a lot of attention, because that’s just the way it goes with environmental stories you know if the impact is primarily to the ecosystem, its, and ecological concern fore most. [DD agrees] people are upset about that sort of thing, get upset about it, but the more of the mainstream reaction tends to just shrug at it. But when you write a headline that says “toxic chemicals pollute drinking water” near old tannery dump, that gets attention and so that story went up, [pauses] [typing is heard] August 30th, 2017, so, about a week later, a week after the river story. And that was really the, you know, the sort of the damn broke on Wolverine and on PFAS and Rockford and that’s when it became like WOOD TV and all the TV stations suddenly jumped on it, you know Ken Kolker who is a former press reported you know is camped out on house street trying to get [sighs] TV reporters are intrusive, print reports we try not to be predatory but we are more the guy that comes up with you with the notebook and is like “hey how is it going try not to be a jerk here with the camera” whereas the TV reports are right in your face with the microphone you know they camp out on your lawn. But that approach can be effective because Ken Kolker was the first one to get Sandy went stealth actually to talk [laughs] I have bene calling and leaving voice messages and stuff before, but I was just too early you know? [DD laughs] the first one and nobody wanted to deal with the reporter but eventually when you deal with one its sort of like pandoras box is open and they start to deal with all of them. [sighs] so [pause] you know that story goes up and pretty quickly its- its big- its huge new right all the TV, all the Aps picking it, TV stations are doing stuff and immediately they schedule, a big public town hall meeting on it and you know it’s like, it’s a different thing you know? Chemicals in the river, that’s generally a concern for people who like a limited population right? People who eat the fish, [DD agrees] um, the chemicals in drinking water, that you know, that freaks people out rightly so. That’s a major problem. And it being that it wasn’t just the chemicals in drinking water, it was like these sort of new unregulated chemicals that people had never really heard of and understood. They understood the products associated but the underlying chemistry was a big mystery and its hugely complicated and you know this one woman’s property has got record levels of this. Like the regulators are like “we have never heard of anything this bad” right? 18.. what was it? [sighs and thinks] in the story it said that 27,000 parts per trillion in the well. Has the highest combined PFO as PFOA concentration the 7 �state health department toxicologist had ever seen in drinking water well. And that was just the PFOS and PFOA number, not the total PFOS number, which ended up being much much higher and subsequent testing showed you know just astronomically high levels. I think Sandy, that was Sandy [unclear]. [DD agrees] and I think later on I mean its tested at 88.000 parts per trillion its like pure scotch garden at that point. You know her husband was drinking that, and she was drinking that, and you know and then he its like [sighs] its one of those situations where you know as a reporter you always want a big story and then one lands in your lap and suddenly “ok now you gotta do this well! And you need to be respectful and and and not be predatory about it”. And you know so it was a delicate, delicate thing I think – I think I handled it pretty because the first two -well the first three stories because there was a third one here. Hold up I have gone back to you know years- you know the last few years to kind a like, read -reread through them, I mean like there is a lot of really good information here that holds up still. [DD agrees] And so part -one of the things that Lin Mackintosh had given me, one of the pieces of information -I think like the most crucial piece of information she ever got, the best document she ever got, was notarized in her view from my a truck driver -a dump -you know a guy that actually did the dumping on house street. She had found him one of her fellow group members had done a notarized interview with him, and that had they had given that to DEQ and that ended up being [pause] a really key piece of evidence that really forced the state to start invest- forced the state force Wolverine to start investigating around the house street dump. And so I had that too, you know I knew that not just -the chemicals weren’t only here on house street, they were, he dumped this stuff at a couple other places and so there was a third story um in that I was working on as well, um, [clicking] I can’t remember the headline there. [pause] [sighs] [typing] ok so, on September 7th I published the third story. Which is “Tannery waste dumped at landfill tied to municipal water pollution.” So here I was kind of able to bring this stuff full circle in some ways with the dump truck driver Earl Teft, he had said that we had dumped this stuff at house street, we dumped this stuff at old dump on -off of 12 mile and Algoma. Kind of up the river from Rockford, north of Rockford a little ways right on the river like a old dump on the river like, what a terrible place to put a dump. And the state disposal land fill on the beltline south of at like right there at four mile and [unclear] sort of like kitty corner of Robinette’s there a supper fun site. Used to be an old dump. Thankfully its downgradient from the apple orchard. So, I looked at that. You know cuz then you are like “oh my god” people are eating contaminated apples -but they weren’t. And so that was able to tie the Wolverine dumping to the Plainfield township municipal water issue. And that ended up being a really important thing because it sparked a lot of online activisms that resulted in people showing up in droves at Plainfield township board meetings demanding filtration and demanding something be done and that pressure for Plainfield township responded to that pressure by seeking state grant money to install activated carbon filtrations on their municipal water. And so that really kind of sparked the first [sighs] filtration efforts? And on municipal water in Michigan it was sort of a pilot project which is you know pretty, it created a water supply that could then be used as the solution you know that’s what’s happening right now right so Plainfield townships water is filtered for these chemicals and now they’ve extend -with the consent decree with Wolverine they’ve you know the company you know and three [unclear] are paying for Plainfield township watermain extensions to neighborhoods with polluted wells and stuff. So, it was like the first three stories in the span of about two and a half, three weeks you know. Established Wolverine the polluter, problem with the river, huge drinking water problem and ground water and Belmont and it’s tied to the municipal water issue in Plainfield township AND there are probably more dump sites, right? So, 8 �it was all of these things came out in the span of a few weeks and they didn’t go through the corporate PR downplay, spin washing machine, right? This was -there were no press conferences there were no press releases. There was no filtration of the news through you know the the through the government [sighs] or the corporate sort of polluter lens before it reaches the public, it was just pure information straight from primary sources and it was really strong reporting. And it at point -the community there was no denying it. Wolverine could not put the genie back in the bottle. And it, you know sort of spun into this enormous search for dump sites around the Rockford, northern Kent County area. And that turned up the woven jewel, Welling Ridge sorts of area that’s almost in terms of concentrations strength. It’s almost worse than house street a lot of people don’t know that. And it you know put a lot of pressure on the state government, especially after Flint. This is still Rick Snyder’s administration and so his response is, well gosh you know, I can’t be seen having another drinking water crisis, so you know he creates M Part, which and and and in M parts first big mission is to test all public drinking water supplies around the state. And what that does is it -that directly results in the discovery in contamination in parchment, and you know it you know it would not of happen if Wolverine had not broken in that way. If you know there hadn’t been enough -all this pressure being put on Lance and to act, [sighs] [sighs] that’s kinda where it becomes a personal story to me in some ways because, the work [sighs] on Wolverine and this story strained a relationship that was broken with my exgirlfriend. To the point of no return. We separated in December 2017. And That was very hard and and she met somebody within a few months, and he happened to live in parchment, [laughs]. And so, in mid-2018 she moves to parchment with my daughter. Mid, maybe it’s, its summer 2018 and off the top my head I don’t remember the exact date but thankfully by that time they had discovered the drinking water contamination, right. So, my daughter was in a you know, not exposed to that stuff [DD agrees] you know at that point I am really thankful for that, right? Because without all of this stuff happening, you know she’d have gotten down here and [pauses] you know I mean its high levels in the municipal water, they react really strongly to what happened in parchment, and they turn that- I mean they got the test and turned the tap off at the plant that day. And so that’s a weird you know, its sort of this roundabout way they I like kinda like I didn’t -I’m not Rick Schnyder, I didn’t make the state do this statewide water testing. But I do believe the that the way the news broke around Wovlerine and Rockford and sort of the community response to it and the fact that this stuff came out, [hand chopping] boom boom boom, like really solid reporting on this came out without a bunch of government or PR spin on it, forced a lot of action [DD agrees] I think that’s one of the more consequential actions that forced and and it did end up protecting the things that I love the most [laugh] so that’s, that’s a good feeling in that -that sense. DD: Can IGE: [stretches and laughs] I feel like I have been talking for a while [laughs] DD: You have, but that’s okay. 9 �GE: Did I -you know there is more to all -like there is more detail I could definitely like go back in and fill out detail on this stuff, [pause]. But [sighs] it oh [laughs and clears throat]. There is one interesting element to -to kind of go back to this point where [clears throat] I am just discovering this stuff, starting to report it as seek information about the Wolverines use of the chemicals and what’s going on with the river and what not. Back in August 2017, [sighs] one of the very first things I did, I almost the first thing I did after Lin Mackintosh identified Wolverine worldwide Tannery. As I sent a FOIA request from the DEQ for you know its investigation -I think it was -excuse me- [tisk] I forget the wording -exact wondering about a FOIA, it was information about what Wolverine was doing to investigate FPAS in Rockford. And that FOIA request [laughs] you know through subsequent FOIA requests in in you know reporting and stuff I [sighs] that FOIA request really hit a fire, under the state and Wolverine and I David O’Donald, I caught him before he gave me – FOIA materials to me, he gave them to Wolverine’s attorney a day prior. [DD agrees] Which is a no- no, you do not do that, I mean that was the kind of thing that never like I never fit it in any of the initial stories because it was seemed to be this sort of behind scenes inside baseball stuff that wasn’t directly relevant to the matter at hand which was drinking water contamination and health threat. It was you know corporate regulatory issue; you know involving the media. I was able to kind of, some oblique references to it in later stories, but that was how I knew that David O’Donald isn’t a voice right actor in this point right. You know the guy that is in charge of- you know overseeing the regulatory response is giving -media FOIA requests to the polluter before he gives them to the media. That’s an issue and that’s a big transparency shown, -it may just of sort of hammer home when Mackintosh has is saying to me at this time which is in some respect, going back to now this stuff sounds a bit extreme. And then you deal with something like that, and you are like “wow okay so there really is some bullshit going on here” [computer notification] So that’s an interesting piece of this you know DD: Yeah GE: There is more things like that, but I am thinking of writing a book [laughs] with this whole issue. DD: Wow GE: These initial interviews and [sighs] outlining and chapter and it’s a lot of work it’s a lot of work to write all report and write all day and you know. DD: And then write some more. GE: Yea [laughs] so I haven’t moved very far on that but there is just so much there that I don’t know how there really just is no other way to present it besides just documentary film or 10 �something like that it needs to be some sort of big, [sighs] you know substantial, depth, of [DD agrees] presentation for this matter because I am newspaper reporter and I can do long form stories and I can do regular updates and stuff but they’re all there is a limit to the newspaper format [DD agrees] and so I try to work the best I can within those limitations but there is still like like if she got -its been a few years at this point and you know there is, there is a lot of details around this story that you either have to know or know how to google search you know a whole bunch of old stories to find and stuff you know so I’d like to just, I’m really interested in a presentation that puts it all in one place. DD: Yea, that sounds fascinating I would read slash watch it. GE: Yea? Well, I hope but thank you. There is a kid working on a documentary eh he is a film maker in Ypsilanti. He kind of started working on it a few years ago and I have been trying to help him but he is kind of doing it on a shoe string but its not moving very quickly but you know I -it its an interesting story -I I I find the Wolverine story is -has a lot of drama [DD agrees] it effects a lot of people, chem- but its you know and in that respect its -its [sighs] you know its not like the military, where you know at an air force base -sorry about the pulsing black that’s there it’s the back lighting, like at an air force base, you’ve got the military they use this A FFF triple fighting foam, that creates the contamination there. It’s a different thing then when a company, you know, like Wolverine, which is this huge, global footwear company, headquartered in the same small town Kent County area, that it was birthed from, you know, it’s this sort of company town aspect to it, you know, pollutes the environment and the people in it’s hometown, right, in it’s backyard. It’s a different stor- I mean the contamination is the same, the result is the same. I mean if you’re drinking it because the military used AFFF foam and that’s how the groundwater polluted versus Wolverine Worldwide dumps scotts yard waste into an unmined landfill and that’s how the groundwater polluted. I mean if-if-if- you’re the affected person it doesn’t really matter. I mean you’re- I mean guess maybe it does in terms- if you want to get and sue them or something. You know you can’t sue the military basically. But in terms of storytelling and narratives and you know sort of things like that, the Wolverine Rockford story is much more compelling and I think it grabs people’s attention in a different way than a lot of the military contaminations, because I think when it comes to military there’s- people aren’t conflicted you know it’s like well this is the military weyou know- we support our troops. You know it’s hard for people to grasp the notion that- thatinstitution would be a bad actor. DD: “Mhmm” GE: “Versus you know a copr- major corporation. It’s almost like people just sort of expect you know, that sort of thing, right? You know, when profits, you know are on the line and- you know that’s the way business is done, you know kind of thing. 11 �DD: “Mhmm” GE: “There’s differences there in terms of, you know the residents I guess of the story. DD: “mhmm, absolutely. Yeah. So for you, after this kind of really intense period of reporting, what happened for you after that? Like as- as- in your work with PFAS? Did it have an impact for you moving forward or was this kind ofGE: “Yeah. [chuckles] I- so- it never stopped for me. It still hasn’t stopped for me. It’s- It’s been PFAS almost continuously since then. In fact, mLive recognized, thankfully, with a little bit of cajoling, sort of the mLive busts recognized this was- we were- we were way ahead of something that you know most other media outlets around the country hadn’t figured out yet. And so theynot only did they keep me on the story, the PFAS story, Wolverine, Rockford, all of that, but statewide and nationally, they added somebody so I started working with another reporter named Paula Gardner in early 2018. And, you know, because the M part situation quickly snowballed into statewide testing and now, we’re looking into wastewater, which, you know, is a huge pathway for the chemicals into the environment. Suddenly there’s a ton of interest and audience for this stuff in Michigan, and so and we had been doing great work on it, so, you know, there was about a two and a half, three year period where I wrote about nothing besides PFAS. Which is remarkable for a newspaper. You know it- it- just doesn’t really happen anymore. Especially in a time of consolidation in the media where everybody, you know, even specialists, are forced to do more generalist type stuff. It, you know, it’s still looking back, shocks me that I had A) I was writing about more or less one story, one subject for several years and I was doing it with someone else who was doing the same thing, it wasn’t like oh she’s going to help you part time, it was you two are a team and this is your subject and we- really proud of the work we did over 2018 and 2019. We really followed the drinking water testing and the results closely and it had a pretty big- it had some residence with Gretchen Witmer, who started talking about drinking water on the campaign trail a lot. It was like ‘fix the damn roads and clean up the drinking water’ like those were the two things. And so, when she gets elected, suddenly the process of developing drinking water standards is initiated. The groundwork had been laid under Rick Snyder, but nobody was expecting him to follow through with a regulatory process that, you know, imposes cost burdens on a regulated community, that’s just not what Republicans do. When she gets elected, you know, Whitmer’s a Democrat and she initiates the process for setting PFAS drinking water standards, you know, and now we have those. I threw some- just talking to people in this community, I remember talking to a donor, a Democratic donor, who is heavily involved in PFAS issues in Michigan. He- he tells me this story of you know, one of my- you know he’s at like a town hall presentation, like a- like a- campaign appearance with Whitmer and, you know, he gets an alert, and it’s one of my stories, it’s about like the first big results of drinking water testing around the state, you know showed, you know, if you total up the 12 �population of the systems with PFAS in them it’s about 1.5 million people are being served by filter systems right, so you know, that’s the headline. And so, he takes that headline over to Whitmer after their appearance, and she reacts pretty strongly to it. This is per my source but, you know, all of her actions today around PFAS, you know back that up that she took it pretty seriously. So that was nice. Anytime as a reporter you can point to policy action, you know, especially in the public health realm where people are being protected against a danger and a threat, you know that feels really good. That’s what journalism is supposed to do, right? I mean it’s sort of the larger importance of you know, journalism and what the news media can do and you know this is [chuckles] and this is all happening in the Trump era, you know where at nationally journalists are being, you know, vilified as enemy of the people, you know, interestingly I never experienced that. You know, most of the Trump years I spent writing about this issue DD: “mhmm” GE: “And just the amount of appreciation I’ve received from people who are affected by it or interested in it. I mean… overwhelming. You know, you get emails as a journalist, you get hate emails. If you’re writing about politics much more than about environmental issues, but I get some. Just the ratio is very much [chuckles] way way way way more people writing like ‘thank you’ emails versus you know what are you some kind of liberal doom sayer kind of stuff. So that’s been really encouraging. Right? It’s the kind of thing that, you know, makes the editors, you know, happy, your bosses happy, they can kind of sell the newspaper on that, a little bit on that. Look at what we’ve done, and here we got this guy, buy a subscription. And so that helps… job security. [chuckles] DD: [chuckles] GE: So yeah, I guess it’s a long way of answering your question, but yeah, I expect to be writing about PFAS for the rest of my career, you know, it’s like, every- you know, you talk to scientists, and you talk to experts and they’re like it’s the new PCB’s, it’s the new bestest, it’s the new this and that, you know and those things are still around, and those things still make the news now and then. I mean, I’m here in Kalamazoo, not far from the Kalamazoo River where, you know, there’s still dredging, sediment dredging going on from all the PCBs in the river from the paper making, you know, industry. They call that legacy, you know pollution. I jus-You know, PFAS is clearly on that sort of trajectory of being, you know, like it’s an issue that-, you know like PCBs, there’s clearly an effort to get it out of products where it’s not necessary, clean it up from the environment, more strictly regulate its uses, you know and that sort of thing. And because there is so much going on with it, there’s a lot to keep track of. And because that’s where my expertise has kind of been developed I kind of have to follow that. Which in some regards, creates a conundrum for me because I would write more about things like Climate Change, or 13 �Environmental Justice, which are really hugely important topics, but I have to kind of play a little bit of triage with my time because I go well, you know those things are being covered pretty well by other reports in Michigan and nationally. This is something that I have a lot of experience and knowledge in, and you know, I can do the most good by following that path, you know, instead of, you know, go where the herd is going. DD: “mhmm” GE: “But that’s hard to explain to some people, you know in Ann Arbor who are very upset about, you know rightfully so, climate change. And so, you know, over the years I’ve had to kind of say, you know look I can’t do everything, and this is the one I’m kind of following and I’ll get to climate change when I can. There are other really good reporters, it’s not like that topic isn’t in the news. DD: “Yeah. Well, I know, we’ve talked for the hour I’ve told you we would talk, and I want to be respectful of your time, and I’m sure you’re busy. GE: “Well, if you have more questions, I’m happy to answer them because right now you’re keeping me from a staff meeting which I am all about that.” DD: “Well I have one more question.” GE: “Okay.” DD: “Given your expertise, and all this experience. What are your concerns about PFAS contamination moving forward, either, you know, from human perspectives, personal perspectives, from work perspectives, what are your concerns about PFAS contamination looking into the future?” GE: “I guess my concern is that people become kind of a nerd to it, before there is very strong national regulations to keep them safe from- from this stuff. You know, and I think that is a big concern among the activists, community and some lawmakers who are trying to push for national drinking water standards. I don’t know if I have a great perspective on that because I’m in Michigan, which, you know over the last few years really learned- you know there’s a collective knowledge about it in Michigan to a much higher degree compared to states like Ohio even, well I guess not Ohio because they had the parkersburg, but other Great Lake states, and other states around the country where the testing hasn’t been done to show that, you know, it’s ‘Yes’ it’s ambiguous to the environment, it’s probably in some drinking water. You know, I guess last year during 2020, when the pandemic hit and everything, you know Covid was the only thing people were paying attention to, it was certainly the only thing that news editors cared about, you know 14 �followed by racial strife, you know in the summer, it was sort of- frustrating to have watched interest amongst the readership as well as, you know, your bosses just [plane noise] nose dive on that and I think we’ve gotten to a place now in 2020 you know where people are vaccinated and life seems to be kind of resuming in a normal fashion, where PFAS issues are kind of coming back and people are paying attention to that again. I can see it in the numbers on a particular headline, because we get- we can see how many people are reading stuff. There is the other concern that we keep replacing the chemicals that are in use now with newer versions of the same stuff. That’s what they’ve been doing right? Like PFOS has been phased out and so they bring in PFBS which is the same thing it just has a different number of Carbon atoms. It’s supposedly safer right? Well, is it? Probably not, right? We’ve talked to health experts and they’re like well it’s not any less toxic. It may not persist in the environment quite as long, but you know, you still shouldn’t be drinking that. And so there’s, you know, this sort of issue with manufacturing of these chemicals, which are obviously lucrative, and so it’s like as the problem evolves in this sort of industry, you know, looks to kind of keep that gravy train going, how does it evolve in a way- will it evolve in a way that we can kind of keep track of it and make sure that it’s not getting into the environment again or are we going to be repeating this years down the road. I remember even in the midst of Wolverine and all of this stuff breaking, people going ‘what’s the next PFAS going to be?’ and I’m like the next PFAS? Let’s deal with this PFAS right here instead of worrying about what the next thing is, but now I look back on that and think well that’s probably a smart thing to be worried about, right? Maybe we should be having that conversation now while this is happening versus ignoring it, you know, until we discover a new problem down the road. Those would be- I’ll probably think of a better answer once [laughs] we hang up, and I’ll be like oh there’s this thing. I wonder what it all means for people in general like what is the larger outcome of this science experiment that we’ve been playing on the human population with, you know, mutagenic chemicals that affect people’s DNA? What does that look like 50, 100 years down the road? What’s the world going to look like when my daughter is older, and she’s grown up? Those are things I think about too. DD: “Yeah. Before we wrap up, is there anything else that you would like to add that we haven’t touched on today? Or anything you’d like to go back to? I know there’s hoodles of things you could say but- “ GE: “Oh so much. You know, I- there’s a guy named Bob Delaney, who you may have heard of. Who really deserves just all the credit in Michigan for- and in some ways nationally, for being sort of the one who was out there kind of shouting that this was a problem, years before anyone was in a position to be able to understand that, or to acknowledge that. And he- you know, when I first called him about [?] in 2016, I didn’t know who Bob Delaney was. He’s a geologist, he’s a state scientist, well he’s retired now, at the time he was the state’s lead site manager for [?] and I expected that phone call to be ignored or to get an email back saying you know what you need to contact the PR people in order to set up an interview, in the way a lot of State and Federal 15 �employees do when a reporter calls, they’re like uhhh talk to the PR guy, but he didn’t do that. He recognized that what I was doing was important and he talked to me. And talked to me very frankly about the issue, and that was so different than most interactions you have as a reporter when talking to a government official. Without that, none of this would have happened I think in terms of the reporting and the stories and what not. Because I would- you know, the way he explained it to me and the knowledge I gained from him was absolutely crucial, to knowing that you’re on solid ground as a journalist on a topic you’re unfamiliar with, you know, you need sources you can trust, who are credible. If you have those, that's gold. He was that. I mean I can’t say enough about how important that was in order to, you know- because you know, writing about this sort of thing, you’re going to get people who try to knock it down right? And there’s going to be big, powerful institutions, you know, Wolverine Worldwide, 3M, attorneys for major law firms- they’re going to pick it apart, they’re going to, you know, try and find problems with it and I’m not a PhD, you know, I feel like I’m a smart enough guy, but I need to be able to trust the scientists who I’m talking to who are saying this is a huge problem, it’s worldwide, we’re not really dealing with it, here’s the potential health implications- I have to be able to trust they know what they’re talking about, and Bob Delaney did. He just deserves all the credit in the world for being, not only smart enough to figure out that this was an issue and start looking for it and taking actions to try and spur protections for people, as well as being open enough about it to speak to the media, and speak to journalists, and trust that they’re- you know, trust that process, you know, trust that that is still a valid way of getting good information out to the public-” 16 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0019 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ellison, Garret Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-06-29 Title A name given to the resource Garret Ellison, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Garret Ellison is an investigative environmental reporter at Mlive and Grand Rapids Press in Michigan. In this interview, Ellison discusses PFAS contamination in the Wolverine Worldwide site in Rockford, MI and his role in breaking MI-based PFAS stories. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b449f207249a2cc4a252cf4e502606e4.mp4 67d9d2780a425915e2cc692ef831e39e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/271c73137bb38c4652709ce63d8f560d.pdf 2605d36c50dfae6657180f0536296252 PDF Text Text Living with PFAS Interviewee: Sue Borgeson Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: June 22nd, 2021 DD: I’m Dani DeVasto, and today, June 22nd, 2021, I have the pleasure of talking to Sue Borgersen. Hi Sue. SB: Hi Dani! DD: Sue can you tell me a little bit about where you’re from and where you currently live? SB: Well, it's a little difficult to tell you where I'm from because I was born and raised in the military, so I've lived all over the world all over the United States in the military and landed in Rockford Michigan. Thirty years ago, I met my husband, and he was from west Michigan, and you know the story of falling in love so here I am. So yep, I live in Rockford, and I absolutely love living here. DD: And you said you've been in Rockford for about 30 years? SB: Um well actually 20. We lived in Grand Rapids for about 10 years. DD: Great. Sue, can you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS in your community? SB: Actually, in my community my story with PFAS goes way back to the early 80s. Growing up in the military. My dad was in the Air Force, we lived in Oscoda, Michigan in a Wordsmith Air Force base. And we arrived in Oscoda from Austin Texas, and this was I believe our second time living in a military installation. Um so we arrived in Oscoda, happy, healthy um no concerns and within a short period of time um it seemed as if our whole family suddenly was getting really sick. And weird things would happen um weird ailments, it especially affected my mother, and we had no idea. She was experiencing extreme fatigue, excruciating migraines and it was suggested that it was her teeth, her back molars needing to be aligned. So, they went in and started grinding on her teeth and they said oh um maybe that's not it we think you have a TMJ problem. So she ended up down at Wright Patterson Air Force. They did temporal.. um had her mouth wired shut for probably a good three months. That did not help… um just it was really very awful. My mom… ended up going to a doctor down in the Saginaw area who started doing testing on her and ran blood analysis and hair analysis and came back and said you have high trace minerals in your hair but your blood, mercury is off just skyrocketing, sane with lead, arsenic and a few other things. And my mom's got black hair and the doctor said to her "If you're dying your hair chances are your probably getting poisoned by your hair dye. So I came home from school and she had shaved her head. So this woman had been put through hell and back and thought that the only way that she was going to feel better was to shave her head. And then in that time um my dad retired from the military, we stayed behind so I could graduate from uh High school with my class. And he headed to west Michigan here and we stayed behind but we �moved to um house in downtown Oscoda. Everyone had well water, um and the problems just kept getting worse and I had a sister um who was terribly ill, hospitalized, they told her she had toxic shock syndrome, mono um. But nothing was confirmed they could not say that this was definitive this was exactly what was happening, the same thing was happening with me. Um we moved to West Michigan and I left went to college and didn't come back till about thirty years ago when I met my husband, lived in Grand Rapids for a while and in that time just continued to be just a deathly sick person. Energetic and was athletic, and I liked to do things but was finding I wasn't able to function, so I started going through the same thing that my mom had gone through seeing doctors all over the Midwest all the way down to Cleveland clinic to check out, maybe what was wrong with me. Did I have MS, did I have chronic fatigue? Did I have fibromyalgia um I had carry malformation, grossest on my body in my body, right now I'm going to be hanging surgery here in the next couple months to have them removed but I've had cysts grow that nobody can explain while it just you know a freak thing. But things really seemed to come to a blow when my husband and I decided we were going to start a family. And in that, it was not happening we started seeing different specialists, but nobody could explain why we weren't able to conceive a child, we didn't want to go the fertility route, then we wondered about adoption, and it was like if we're not supposed to have them, we're not supposed to have them. And we're ok with it. We kind of moved on from that and um but I still was sick, and you know then they started telling me my cholesterol was high, my HGLS was all out of whack, just out of this world and extremely anemic on top of all of it. Um there was actually a point in time I was so sick that they were suggesting to me that I was anorexic, and I was doing it on purpose to be hospitalized. Um you know, I assure you, I am I’m not anorexic, not doing this intentionally that's the situation with the medical field, they can't figure it out or help you with it, they start telling you it’s in your head and they start coming up with alternate solutions or situations to say ok we think this is what it is. So, you go down that route for a while and discover indeed that is not it. And not only cause I was going on this route, did it make things worse. I still don't know what the heck is going on. So, about that time I started hearing stories, well I should say we moved to Rockford in that time, and we live in downtown Rockford not too far from Rogue River and that is how getting water, smelled funny. I didn't like drinking in Oscoda, on the air force base. To this day I have a hard time drinking water. Our water smelled bad, tasted bad, so I called the water department, they came to test it, the gentleman who came out said um you know usually when we go to people’s house because they say its smells. Usually, they have a lot of animals, animal waste, garbage, he said your house is immaculate. He said so we don't know what it is, but you know we'll get it fixed for you well that plant got decommissioned. They hooked us up to you know the whole area to this aquifer that's just outside town here. And you know things kind of seem to level off for a little bit and when you don't know what the heck is going on and you see these things and you like to try to put them together and it's just it's just frustrating. And so, we used to walk our dogs down by the river and walk along and in the fall when the river goes down you could see the tree roots exposed on the riverbank, and we would see these like these long-twisted things that were like shoved into the roots and they were all along the bank. And we get to a remote area, and we let our dogs off the leash, and they would run, and they would bring these things back to us and we had no idea what they were. And we kayak and canoed, there’s foam in the river we had no idea what it was and just to go back to Wordsmith again for a second Wordsmith is on a lake than at lake which is just outside the gate area, and they had their own private beach facility where all the military families could go and swim and they had docks and all kinds of cool stuff. And we was sit there and play �in this foam that would just come up on the beach and we would cover each other in this foam. It was just, we were thinking it was just this natural occurrence that came from lake nobody even had a clue. So I started hearing things coming out of Wordsmith about the water quality up there and the things that they found with regards to PFAS and it's to PFAA and then started hearing about the Wolverine factory, the PFAS, you know on packer and those drives that are just a West of Rockford. And started putting two and two together and discovered a group out of Wordsmith that was a community of people that had all the same symptoms, all the same ailments and they were coming together to talk about their issues yes, I can't have kids yes I've got high cholesterol yes I have thyroid problem multiple sclerosis just the whole gambit. And they were going to hire Erin Brokowich to represent them in a suit again the United States Air Force. So, I joined the group and having worked in engineering industry, friends that were environmental engineers, started asking them questions about things. I asked this group these questions and I got kicked out of the group because they thought, I was a mole. And I was like what? How come I can't be in your group? And they said nope, you're obviously a mole, and I said what makes you think I'm a mole? Well, you're asking questions nobody else would ask. Cause I work in this industry, you can go to my LinkedIn profile, it will tell you my work history. So, it didn't matter I still got kicked out anyways. Um but what they did for me was I said OK I don't need a group of people to figure what is wrong with me. I think this is what has happened to me and to my family. I'm gonna just investigate it myself and put 2 and 2 together and I went to my doctor, and I sat down with studies with studies and reports and articles, and you know she's got my high health of history, and I had all that. I had full on hysterectomy bout 5 years. And the doctor that did the hysterectomy said that there was no way on God's green earth that I was gonna get pregnant because my uterus and ovaries were nothing but one big lump of cysts, that had been growing for a bazillion years. And said that was never going to happen, um you have the strangers looking uterus we've ever seen you for. We stopped counting the number of cysts that were on your reproduction organs, anyway, so I sat down with her went through everything. And you know I think I would like for you to see a toxicologist. So, she scheduled an appointment to talk to a specialist at Devos children’s hospital because if there if somebody poisoned, it's usually a child. So, they have them at, the toxicologists are associated with the children's hospital. So, I go to meet, this doctor, explain my situation I’m concerned about my health going on in the future, are there tests for my blood, what's can we do here? And he told me he said, how long has it been since you lived in Oscoda? And I said oh about 35 years, and he said, well what happens when you take the pan off the fire, he said it cools down. He said there's no way you would still have any chemicals in your body from 35 years ago. So now um Pfas is considered the forever chemical, and um I don't know there's what 17 chemicals, 31 compounds in PFAS that settled within your tissue, in the organs in your body. Just the frustration with that, um to try to help yourself to figure things out um and to be told id you take the pain off the fire, it stops getting hot. The other thing that as military raised child, individual there's no way of tracking any of this health issues. Because once you turn 18, 21, 18 if you don't go to college, 21 if you do, you no longer afford military health care. So, they can't track you, so there are a ton of us out there that lived on these bases exposed to the chemicals. Going to my first class reunion ten years after I graduated because when you're in a military family, when your dad retired, everyone goes with ya. So, if you retire, wherever you and your family usually goes with ya. So, nobody is really essentially located there anymore. Going back to 10-year class reunion, nobody had kids. But some people were feeling kind of sick and getting diagnosed with things. Twenty-year class reunion, people are in wheelchairs, people �have died. My best friend across where my best friend who lived across the street from me, was a firefighter on base. Worked on those runways every day in that, passed away a number years ago of some bizarre liver cancer that they could not even identify how it may have even started she died of that same liver cancer her mother died of the same liver cancer so going back to my 20th class reunion and I said to my husband how am I gonna handle this when people start asking you about you know my kids cause this is where we're going to show pictures in what. said you know it's not a big deal to me to not have kids, but I don't want to stand there and have to explain to a 150 people why don't we have kids? And To my surprise a large majority of the people did not have children and if they did very difficult to conceive and/or that they had adopted so at adopt it so you know it's just if you start looking at the population then you're looking at all the different elements that people have that lived in that particular area there was something not right To my surprise a large majority of the people did not have children and if they did very difficult to conceive and/or that they had adopted so at adopt it. It's just if you start looking at the population then you're looking at all the different ailments that people have that lived in that particular area there was something not right. And the medical profession is not able to help us, maybe it's something cause it's a chemical, it sits in your body. Maybe its another cure or those sorts of things, but the direction I wanted to come from, On this was doctors need to be with the research community, new search community needs to be working with the technical scientists on not only getting rid of this chemical but also at the same time what is going to pop up out of this I mean are people going to be having you know Parkinson’s and ALS I mean I went to Chicago on Friday and it was a really kind of a taxing day the heat and the whole just a whole day while my Nero you're a lot of what is it neural muscular system just went on the blink and so I get fried and I'm not able to function so we ended up having come home because I was absolutely exhausted. And it’s taken me um since Saturday, and I was like oh please I hope I'm not too tired to do this on Tuesday because I have to say something about it. Um but you know I have um my sisters and brothers same sort of thing. Um and it's just, it's tragic to also live in a community where how the heck did, I end up here. After living wordsmith and Oscoda and living right smack dab in the middle of Rockford. And what is going to, what's going to pop up next with all of this? Um so that's kind of where that's kind of my story. Kind of rambled, that's kind of it in a big nutshell. My mom never did recover from of it. And when you have, you know healthcare professionals I'm drilling into your head that the pain that you feel on the tired that you feel is all in your head while it eventually ends up in your head and you know it's just at the time I want people invent these things they're really cool everybody's excited all this is you know the next greatest thing and then you know 10 15 20 years later we find out that you know what it's no dumb what it's doing too not only our world but you know what are the vitamins but people in health and You know I don't know what the solution to that is but you know but I feel like I needed to say something and health and spending some time investigating those kids of issues. DD: Yeah, thank you. SB: Sorry, that was a half an hour answer. �DD: It was great, it was a great story to tell and I'm so glad you told it. What concerns do you have with PFAS contamination moving forward? You might have hinted this a little bit, but can you speak to that question a little more? SB: Well, I do know that you know there's a full court press on trying to develop in our water in wastewater treatment plants filters to filter out PFAs to track it to see where it's going. My concerns with it it's not just in the water it's water it's in the soil so even though you may not be drinking water it's still in my backyard and still in the dirt. Um what is that going to mean for us, here's something I learned too, I was really surprised by. PFAs is on hamburger wrappers, you know when they're collecting water samples, to test for PFAs, you cannot have eaten a hamburger without washing your hands. They have this whole long list of things. It's still being used in products that are detrimental to the health and welfare of people of the world. I'm just you know, I'm glad in the industry that I'm in because it allows me to be a little more informed. And aware of what's transpiring with the world of PFAs and but I also know there's a whole of health issues that nobody is willing to say yes this is directly an impact from PFAs. Allot of liver cancers. You know H TAL's LDL is the Al's LD o's triglycerides cholesterol is cholesterol even when you take medication it does not lower those so just you know what does that mean for liver and pancreas and not just me but you know everybody that lives around here. DD: Well before we wrap up today, Sue, would you like to add anything we haven't touched on or anything you want to go back to and say more about? SB: Um, I think I pretty much said what I wanted to say about, but it's been 35 years almost 40 years, of being exposed to PFAs. Um I'm a pretty healthy girl, you know um I've endured a lot look great on the outside, I think. But on the inside, um not so much on certain days, I feel fortunate that I'm able to care through it where a lot of people have not been able to manage it. Because they don't know what’s going on with them, and they just continue they just continue to tread water and I'm excited about the ideas of people being able to come together and connect with one another over these issues maybe not me but generations behind me that have been exposed to this are they'll come up with something that can help people live better lives that have been exposed to PFAS. I think water is the war of the world in It's a precious resource that we have a tendency to take a pic take advantage of, but you don't know what you don't know so what's the next thing. DD: Yeah, very true, SB: So that's kind of my story in a nutshell, um I don't have anything seriously terminal to this particular point, but um sometimes you can live a long life and just be miserable every day. You know because of the things people have to deal with. And um as a result of this chemical, so I pray for those people, every day at least 3 or 4 times. So that's my story and I'm sticking to it. DD: Well, thank you so much Sue for taking the time to share your story today. �SB: Absolutely, thank you for your interest and spending the time with me today. . � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0018 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Borgeson, Sue Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-06-22 Title A name given to the resource Sue Borgeson, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Sue Borgeson grew up in a military family and has lived all over the world and the United States, and currently resides in Rockford, Michigan. In her interview, Sue discusses the impact PFAS has had on the health of her family after being exposed on military bases and at her home in Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/13ab5577309d13ad17c48111090353cd.mp4 cf1dd5d14ff9e9cd436de10dcebd6f78 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/be1b7c808428284913b9f2468cd47557.pdf 4c7a5d523389bed639f2fa506a912ef9 PDF Text Text Living with PFAS Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Interviewee: Larry Campell Date: June 18, 2021 DD: I’m Dani DeVasto and today, June 18th, 2021. I have the pleasure of chatting with Larry Campbell. Hi, Larry. LC: Hi. DD: Larry can you tell me about where you’re from and where you currently live? LC: Well I currently- I was born and raised in Belding, Michigan, and I attended Grand Valley State for a short period of time. While I was attending Grand Valley State University, I met my wife, and she is from Sparta, Michigan. We eventually married and moved to Belding, Michigan. Unfortunately, through this horrible journey that this PFAS put us through, it eventually led to our divorce and I’m currently living in the Metro Detroit area. DD: And how long have you been in the Metro Detroit area? LC: It’s been over two years now. DD: Okay. Larry, can you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS in your community? LC: Yeah, you know. This kind of started around 1997-1998. After I met my wife, we lived in the same apartment complex that, when I was going to Grand Valley State University I was also in the Michigan National Guard at the time. I had come off active duty in 1996, off active duty in the Army, and enrolled in Grand Valley State University, where I also played baseball. After my first year at Grand Valley, I had moved to an apartment complex where I ultimately met my future wife. She had two children, and I love kids. And we kind of, you know– We grew closer, and I eventually met her family. One of the strange things about when I first met the family, especially her father, [he was] very stand-offish, not very talkative. Later on, once we had announced that we were going to have a baby together, things had begun to take a strange turn. Her father, my future father-in-law, and I could never have a conversation like you and I are doing now. He was always adversarial, always coming at me sideways, and I could never understand it. I was like, “Look, I love your daughter.” It was a very strange situation. She had two children from previous relationships and none of the fathers were in the picture. I was willing to take them on as well as I wanted to be there for my son, and so on and so forth. None of that seemed to matter to him. It was– It was a bizarre relationship in fact, at one point I became so frustrated that I said, “So, what you’re saying that you’d rather have me ride off into the sunset?” and he was like, “Yep, yep.” It was not normal. It was not normal. At first I thought that they were staunch catholic, and maybe because I wasn’t catholic that I thought that maybe there was some jealousy. I was another father-figure coming into the picture, and which he felt– I 1 �don’t know why he would’ve as he’s the patriarch of the family. There wasn’t anything I had done that would give him the idea that I wasn’t capable of raising a family and being a good protector. My son was born in 1999, and in the following year I was hired by the Michigan Department of Corrections. So, gainfully employed, it seemed barely worthy enough, it was very bizarre. They lived in Sparta, Michigan, which is in northern Kent County. Beautiful area up there, they live on Squaw Lake area, tributary, that feeds from Squaw Lake into the Rogue River. Which, people are following– We know that the river was contaminated quite a bit. You could go to Rockford, Michigan and see the PFAS foaming at the dam; it’s a water wonderland up there. They lived off the beaten path in a secluded [drive]. The father had blazed a two-trail track back into the woods and had built a house. It’s a beautiful area. We lived there for a while as they had a small cabin on the property as well. While his daughter was going to school at the time they said, “Hey stay there while she’s going to school.” I was driving from Sparta to Ionia, where I worked at the time. I just kept pluggin’ along and taking care of the family, building a relationship with their family, but it just never seemed– Something always seemed off. Right after my son was born in 1999, suddenly my wife had to have an emergency hysterectomy. DD: Hmmm. LC: It came out of the blue, we didn’t even get a second or third opinion. It was like, “Nope this needs to be done ASAP.” And it just came out of nowhere. I was kind of–I was pretty disappointed ‘cause I was like, “Well I guess I only get one child.” And you know, so– This was odd. She was probably early thirties, early to mid-thirties, and suddenly she has to have an emergency hysterectomy. If you know any women that have had hysterectomies then you know that it throws the hormones into an imbalance and that was the beginning of all, of all her medical problems. So, it-it was to a point where– Because my son was born in 1999 and we weren’t married yet, it was such an odd situation that I was questioning if I wanted to marry this woman. When you don’t really have the support of the parents, or it’s kind of an odd situation and it didn’t make sense. You could not reason with these individuals. You could not reason with– Interestingly, I started building a house around 2004, started building a house, in the Belding area where I grew up. I had purchased some property while I was in the Army and had sat on it for a while. Once I was well established at my new job, I decided to build a home. Well, 2005 we moved into the home. It seemed that when I got her away from that area, or her family–or you know looking back, it was probably that area, knowing what I know now–things started to get better. I didn’t know what it was at the time. I didn’t know if it was the influence of her parents, that was the only thing that I could come to the conclusion of. It was, you know, the influence of her parents, her dad was such an overbearing type of person. There were times that he would say “If the house isn’t clean by the time I get home, there’s gonna be hell to pay.” And different things like that. So, my wife was a very, meticulous, OCD, and kept a very clean house, and stuff. Basically, kind of had OCD from it. But she was a very good cook, and a great mom, and things like that. But when it came to her parents, there was just– there was, there was no reasoning. It was very disheartening. I always felt like an outsider any time I went over there, 2 �never really had a relationship with her father. It was more or less, you didn’t talk to him. It was– It was– It was strange to say the least. Now we are living in Belding, and we got married in May of 2005. I never even, even at the wedding–I got a hug from her mom–but didn’t even get a handshake or a welcome to the family from her dad. And just, I– You know– Another, just kinda strange, type, you know– I was just like, “Well it what it is.” And I was just accepting the fact that he was a hard worker and maybe that is just the way he is. So, I just kept pluggin’ on and did what I did, and stuff– Probably, not long after, 2006-2007, the wife started having a lot of kidney stones that were one right after another. Had no idea what was going on. I’ve still yet to look up– I haven’t looked up whether kidney stones can be any type of symptom or reaction from PFAS contamination. Now, because her health is being affected, she was losing jobs. And it was putting financial strain on us as well. And then, 2007 or actually 2008, her father comes down with colon cancer. And I guess he had known something was going on for a while and had this ‘didn't’ go to the doctor’ type thing. Unfortunately, it was pretty progressed, and they went into the chemo, and so on and so forth, to do what they could. But interestingly, the property they owned around Squaw Lake, the father’s name was Charles ‘Chuck’ Cockren, but he was drilling the wells lotting off the property. So, here he is digging the water wells, lotting off this property around Squaw Lake, and he was drinking this raw water right out of the ground, basically testing the vein. “That’s a good vein, not a good vein.” When we lived in the cabin that was between the dam and their property, right on the tributary coming right off Squaw Lake, the water tasted horrible. I mean horrible is– The only time I would drink the water is if we ran it through a Britta then would mix it with Kool-Aid or something. It was very horrible tasting, smelled. The weird thing is that their water, at their home, which came off the tributary and Squaw Lake, probably 300-400 yards, their water tastes amazing. DD: Huhh. LC: Like, like the best water I’ve ever tasted. So, we had lived there for a while, but her father was drilling all these water wells, lotting off this property. Well, he suddenly comes down with cancer and we had no clue. And we’re just like, “Oh my gosh.” And the heartbreaking thing about it was he had come down with cancer, and he passed away two days before Christmas. DD: Hmmm. LC: It was heartbreaking because we had put off Christmas shopping for the kids. Kind of, you know, making– I wasn’t able to go shopping with her, my wife, because she was visiting her father as much as possible. By this time, hospice had come in, and I finally said, “Hey is there anywhere we can meet at the Meijer in Rockford, just, you know, we can grab Christmas presents quick for the kids and you can get back?” So, I met her there and after we got done, I don’t even remember if I was home yet, but she called me, and it was like he was waiting for her 3 �to return from shopping, and then he passed away. So, two days before Christmas, that was a pretty-pretty somber Christmas. Still at this point had no clue, it wasn’t even on the radar. So– Wife’s health continued to get worse and worse. She had been diagnosed with Autoimmune disorder. She developed Fibromyalgia. Which it seems Fibromyalgia affects women more than men. It’s just this chronic pain all the time, joints; it's horrible. And so, we were living in Ionia County at the time, obviously in Belding, and the wife goes to a pain management clinic to try-to try to find something to help her manage the pain that she’s going through and dealing with. They prescribe her Opioids. And this was in, probably, oh I would say, I’m just guessing, 2012ish, 2011ish, somewhere around in there, and that just kind of allowed her to function, I guess. It just continued to get worse, the pain got worse– So long story short, it got to the point where she was running out of her medication, my mom who’s got arthritis really bad, she would ask to borrow a few just to get through until her next medication. But the Opioids were never enough. I think she was taking six a day at one point, which is unbelievable. And her pain threshold– I think she was functioning at a six on the pain level while on the Opioids. Which a pain level of 10 you’re crawled up in a ball. It just continued to progress and get worse and worse. I was working in a prison now. I was working at the Michigan Department of Corrections. I had worked third shift for 15 years. I was raising my son, he’s kind of hopefully the next major league baseball player. He’s been scouted and been playing baseball since he was 17. But me working third shift I was able to raise him and coach him. But, working at a maximize security prison, it’s not a nice environment. You know, there’s PTSD and hyper vigilance, it’s just not a good environment. Between that and working third shift where you’re kind of always in a haze you feel like a zombie because you’re always fighting to get enough sleep. I eventually thought that the cause of her health issues was that I was bringing home the environment I was working in. I started trying to find a way to get out because I knew corrections officers have a high mortality rate. Most of them pass away within five years after retiring. I was coming up on 15 years and I sure as heck didn’t want to do another 15. Especially, if I felt that me working there was causing a lot of the stress and other issues for her health. I really thought it was me. I thought I was the big [issue] with bringing my work home. Even though I wouldn’t bring it home, your still affected by it, and that’s projected onto friends and family. I’ll admit I wasn’t a nice guy. I was grumpy all the time, short fused. Unfortunately, it’s the environment you’re subjected to everyday. Being prior military, I was like, hey I’m equipped to work in law enforcement, but really no one is equipped to work in that job. Eventually I was able to get out that job, and get my real estate license, and was actually doing both at the same time. By the grace of God, I was offered a position in real estate and was able to finally able to leave the Michigan department of infractions. Still continuing to deal with the health issues and the doctors had no answers. All they did was give her more opioids and basically appeasing her. At this point this was about the time where the opioid crisis was just beginning and building. I was becoming disheartened, because I’m the hunter and gatherer, and protector, and now I can’t even, I have no answers when the doctors have no answer. This was in 2017 or 2018, and my son has gone to college now, his first year at Arizona. Went down to Arizona and played collegiate baseball for a college in Arizona. I’m very proud of him and things like this that was kind of the downfall for the family. My son is down in Arizona, and we kept a lot of her, my wife’s health issues [hidden]. My son, he needs to focus on school, focus on baseball. He’s 2,000 miles away in Arizona and we had a pact or an agreement between her and I; that we want him to focus on school and everything and that we won’t burden 4 �him with your health issues, we’ll try to figure it out. What was heartbreaking was that I had asked my son, I said look your mom needs to hear your voice and see your voice, whether it’s a text message or voicemail, video chat, every day. You need to lift your mom up every day, and I’m just trying to do anything to try and stay positive to keep her positive in hopes to turn a corner with her health, and he didn’t do that. It was kind of frustrating. In fact, when he got home from college, I’m guessing his mom had mentioned to him or he was asking me why she looked so you know, she lost weight. He’s yelling at me “Why didn’t you tell me that mom was sick?!” I said “I asked you to lift your mom up every day. Whether it’s a message, somehow, someway, some form and you never even did that.” He’s an eighteen, nineteen-year-old kid. I finally convinced her and said this is not sustainable. I went into her room, we slept in two different rooms because I was a third shifter. I had the room blacked out, and she had her little cocoon and oasis that she liked to keep, and it worked out better for us in that sleeping arrangement. I walked into her bedroom one day and she’s crying uncontrollably. She’s like “I can’t take this pain.” I was at my wits end. I was out of answers, I was out of options. She’s already taking six opioids a day. Borrowing from my mom. I knew that this was just not sustainable. Now, her mom lived up by herself in Sparta. By the way, she had, by this time, she had developed heart issues. She has what’s called A-fib, Atrial Fibrillation. She was by herself, she was retired, and basically, I said “Listen, I want you to go stay with your mom for a while. Go see her doctor, get a second opinion.” I felt that she’d love going to her mom’s. It’s an oasis up there it’s a beautiful area up there, away from everybody, where she doesn’t have to worry about two messy boys. “Look I’m mowing lawn, and fixing cars.” So, she wouldn’t have to pick up after us or anything like that. She went to her mom’s. She went to her mom’s doctor, got a second opinion, and what I was trying to do was, I was trying to get her mom to try and take some responsibility for her daughter’s health. Because I couldn’t do everything, I had everything on my shoulders, with no answers. So, she went and stayed with her mom for a week or so. Went to her doctor, got in and she says “Hey.” She didn’t want our son to know that I had drawn a line in the sand with regard to this not being sustainable. And kind of stepping back for minute to when she was crying uncontrollably, she says I can’t take this pain anymore I just want to die. DD: Mmm hmm LC: I kind of went into rescue mood, and I says now look you’re not going to die, that would devastate the kids. I knew just that this wasn’t sustainable. While we lived in Ionia County at the time north of me Montcalm County, one of my good friends was the Deputy Director of the Montcalm ambulance. And a week or two prior to her saying this to me he said, “Larry we had a husband and wife overdose from opioids a day apart in the same house.” So, this was right in the middle of the crisis, and I just finally had to draw a line in the sand and say this isn’t sustainable. I had to force the issue of having her mom come into the picture and take some responsibility for her daughter’s health. So, she stayed at her mom’s, went to her mom’s doctor and she called me and said, “Hey will you pick me up.” She didn’t want are youngest son to know we were struggling as a couple with this whole health issue. So, I go to [the] Grand Rapids area. Pick her up from her mom’s doctor. Through all of this, this PFAS really, it effects men and women differently. For women it brings their emotions down to where they’re very subdue. This chemical subdues any outward inflection. I didn’t know this at the time, but this was just how her mom was. I pulled up next to them. We parked driver to driver. It was close to easter, and she says, “I say hey how’s it going?”-and she just like says- “Hey.” Not like, hey we found some stuff out, hey we’re moving in the right direction. It was nothing, no report, just a hey. That was 5 �kind of par for the course. My wife gets out and gets in the car. I say, “Hey how are you doing?” and she just like “Not good.” I’m like “What did they do?” She says, “They pulled me off of opioids, cold turkey, and gave me pain patches.” They weren’t even touching her. I say, “What’s your pain level at?” She said “12.” So, we leave and were driving home. She did say the doctor filed a complaint with the Pain Management Clinic in Ionia County. As they were over prescribing her opioids. LC: So, we’re on the way home driving back from Grand Rapids. We come to M-44 where we head into Belding, and West River Drive area. We’re driving along and talking more, and I am just becoming more and more disheartened because there are still no answers. No clue [of] what’s going on, why this has become so bad. In hindsight, I wish I would have known how bad, how much pain she was actually in. Especially since she functioned at a six or an eight-pain level on opioids, and here she was off cold turkey. To go from six to twelve like she said, doubling her pain. I have no doubt. I wasn’t thinking. I had never dealt with any pain that severe, chronically, all the time. Because I was out of answers, I was still, I didn’t know what to do I said, “I think it would be best if you stayed with your mom.” Because once again I still thought I was a lot of the cause for pain, and the environment I was working in. She loved going to her mom’s, because like I said, it was an oasis up there. I said “Hey, I think it would be a good idea if you stayed with your mom for a while” and all hell broke loose. Like, all hell broke loose. She thought I was abandoning her. She thought I wanted a divorce, which was farthest form the truth. I was just trying to save her life. I was out of answers. Certainly, going back to the Pain Management Clinic wasn’t the answer. So, her pain and what I said. I didn’t know what to do. I shouldn’t have probably said that I should’ve at least probably waited until we got home to sit down and have a good face to face, what’s are next step type thing. While instead, she completely, I mean lucid is the only word that I can think of. She just went off. Long story short we’re driving down the road fifty-five miles per hour, and she opens the door. She says, “I just want to kill myself.” So, I hit the brakes, like oh my god what are you doing. She jumps out of the car. She’s walking down the middle of the road, so I’m like oh my gosh. So, I dial 911. I’m like, “Get out of the road please.” She’s like, “I just want to die. I hope a car hits me and kills me.” I’m freaking out, I don’t even understand what’s going on. So, I’m driving down in middle of the road to try to stop anybody coming from behind us or to alert anyone coming toward us that she’s in the road. I roll my window down, yell get off the road. So, she finally gets off the road and I’m calling 911. You guys need to send somebody right now because there’s going to be a fatality. I’m on the phone with 911 and they’re sending people this way. Now she’s off to the side of the road and I’m driving along with her so she can’t run onto the road again. I say get in the car, just please get in the car, and she comes up and she gets in the driver side passenger. She gets in and I don’t even know what I’m witnessing. Her emotions are so up, gone through the roof, and now she’s just beating on the back of the seat. I’m waiting for her to come around and hit me. I’m just like please don’t hit me type thing. So, we’re driving along, and I’ve never seen her like this. What it was, was just her pain was out of control. We get back in through Belding and were getting back home. We get to the road and slow down and she jumps out of the car again and what I was worried about was I was like when we turned down our road, I was like crap I don’t want to let her in the house ya know there’s knives and you know other things there that she can hurt herself with, so now I was like trying to go slow she jumps out of the car again, she runs into the weeds- I can’t see her cause the - the switch grass is is way above her height, so now there’s like the main road 6 �and then our road so i'm turning down our road and that’s when she jumps out, so now I’m like im worried that shes going to run back up to the highway, so I'm like staying up by the highway, you know making sure she doesn’t try running out running out up- up on the highway so I’m calling 911 again and I’m like where are you guys? You know, and I said by the way you know please send a female officer because I’m not going to have a male officer you know try to restrain her and say that she’s fighting or- or she assaulted a male officer. I said you guys do not understand what’s going on and, so I immediately requested a female officer and they said that there was a female state police officer that was- farther away then then then than I wanted to hear but, so I’m trying to figure out where she is, I don’t know where she is, so I was like maybe she went back to the house which is just like three tenths of a mile down our road off the main road we live on a dirt road. So I start going down the road toward my house and here she comes out of our driveway kinda like cuts across the yard and she’s in my son's car now. So full size chevy impala and now we're coming right at each other and I’m like oh my gosh so I'm liketrying to like get in the middle of the road but I don’t wanna cause a head on collision either and she gets by me. And now she’s you know driving down the road so I’m like you know asking for an ambulance, I’m asking for you know female trooper and and stuff. Well so I get on 911 again and and they’re you know flying down the- she’s flying down the road so we get to the corner of our Johnson road and M-44 and the ambulance passes us, I’m like hey tell the ambulance to turn around we're right here. So she’s going back into town and, I think the police are finally starting to converge and she pulls into a dollar general store and [brief pause] parks. and she’s got the windows rolled up, she won’t roll the window down the ambulance parks across the street, they can't help in any way until the scene is cleared. so they make sure they're not going to get- be put in harm's way. At some point I picked up my neighbor, I picked him up at my house, but I don’t remember how or when at some point. But anyway, he’s an attorney and I’m- he’s like what’s going on? She came back from the doctor and they taken her off opioids cold turkey and, you know I think just her pain is through the roof right now and she’s just so lucid that she is completely out of it. So the female officer shows up and I just told them I said look don’t be going hands on I said I don’t want her to get accused of you know resisting or fighting a officer or something and she had taken her wedding ring off and she threw it down and somehow it bounced right under the center of her car- of the car that she was in. At some point she had called her mom and her mom came all the way from Sparta and picked her up and they just let her go and didn’t really even question her and I was just- I just wanted to get her help, and you know I told the officers I said listen she’s- you guys are well aware of the opioid crisis right now and I said, you know she just got back and they completely have taken her off opioids cold turkey and and so on and so forth. So, that day literally was- so that was 2018 that day was pretty much the last time we were together kind of officially, and while it hurt to know that you know- and everything went sideways from there. You know I was you know I had abandoned her I- you know so on and so forth. But, I felt like I saved her life for that point. At least she had a full time caregiver there and her mom there every day. To you know, to try and get some answers. Well so now I kinda go into this, I’m still trying to figure out what’s going on and I’m praying, I'm like lord you have got to show me what is killing this family, it doesn’t make sense. Well interestingly, my neighbor who lived right behind me in Belding was a Vietnam veteran. He would come at me sideways just like my father-in-law. I had the epiphany, wait a minute [brief 7 �pause] the Vietnam veteran that lives right behind me was suffering from agent orange, that’s a neurotoxin, PFAS is also a neurotoxin that’s when I made the connection. That was the epiphany that I had, and so that’s when I really started diving into- and that’s when the wolverine worldwide started the PFAS contamination there was really starting to blow up and take off, so then I stared entrenching myself into figuring out what was going on and I knew that had to be it, I knew that had to be it. There was no other explanation. You got all this- you know her father died of cancer, her mom had heart issues, her daughter has all kinds of autoimmune issues, her brother developed lupus, and her brother acts the same way as his dad- as her dad. And so then I went out to the dam that’s right next to their house. The same PFAS foam that is occurring in downtown Rockford was occurring right here at the dam, I called Mark Worell the geologist from Eagle,got them down there, they witnessed it. I contacted Gram Peesley who is a professor from the university of Notre Dame. he used to live in Kent County and he said me these awesome little filter caps that they developed, you just screw them on the end of a the end of a 2 liter bottle and poke a hole in it and let the water drain out. He sent me these filters. I went to the dam, I took the filters he said in one of my samples the fluorine which is the indicator of PFAS was like two thousand parts per trillion, it was off the charts, so I was like finally I’m putting together. But I called- I called Varnum the law firm that is representing everybody in this PFAS lawsuit against Wolverine Worldwide and that said well that’s not a known area. So then I started diving into it more they just completely ignored me and so then the map that I sent you of Algoma township be- that the map of Algoma township Scwall lake buts up right against it and if your going to drop or, your toxic sludge you take it away from as far away from the plant as you can, but still stay in the same township. They could have literally been backing their trucks up to Scwall lake and dumping that PFAS stuff right into it. You know this has been going on 50’s 60’s 70’s and back in the day Scwall lake was such a excluded lake there was maybe a two track to it people walk down to go fishing DD: Mhm LC: So, you know I haven’t been able to prove that, but the health affects the PFAS foam at the dam that runs over from the tributary comes out of Scwall lake. They all witnessed that, I went and testified at the forum for eagle and you know I told- and by the way i've tried to tell my wife at the time were now divorced, but I tried saving our marriage I tried saving- i’m like listen you know stop drinking the water get your blood tested, and it was like it was a joke. Oh, yea that was it is, well how do you explain your dad’s cancer. Oh, just bad luck, you know you can’t reason with them. Look, you have all these health issues and by the way by the grace of God 2019, she’s living with her mom, and she messages her on her way home from work saying I’m on my way home from work do we need anything type thing and I think you know her mom responded to her. She walks in and her mom is unresponsive on the floor, she had had a stroke. And this is yet another you know but by the grace of God, they found her on time my son had come home from college and helped and the paramedics arrived and got her there in time and and she was at my son's baseball game two days later and you know by the grace of God you know her life was saved too. So I, through all this it's just I've been trying to save lives of my own family and try and figure out what’s going on and I finally started connecting the dots and putting two and two together, but I still feel like I have nowhere to go. 8 �DD: Mhm LC: People that I do reach out to they’re like well we haven’t found any proof there you know then I bring Eagle out they see the proof then COVID hits, and nobody has resources to do a further investigation. You know meanwhile I have completely lost the relationship with my son you know and i'll say in all of this. This chemical is the most evil thing that anybody could be subjected to through all of this and all of the research that I have done dealing with my family, what I have learned is to recognize those people who have been affected by PFAS. I can literally go through life and when I meet somebody the bells and whistles go off in my head as indicators of, I think that person has been affected by PFAS. I met two individuals right here in the metro Detroit area and one of them was a firefighter, this guy is probably the worst case of PFAS exposure that I have ever seen I actually had a- I actually had an encounter with him that I recorded and I’m trying to get that to Gram Peesley I’ve reached out to Gram and said, Gram this is another insistence of you know PFAS exposure you know I’ve been wanting to try and get this Infront of individuals but this person is off the charts. They have admitted to having ingested this PFAS foam during training and it’s, I can’t explain it, it’s literally like talking to the devil. I don’t know how else to explain it. This PFAS is such an evil cruel chemical and what it does to the body, what it does to the mind, I coined a phrase and have no other way to explain it but its PFAS dementia. And, my family has it, you can’t reason with them. And it breaks my heart and and ya know and through all of this my faith has grown and there was times when I just wanted to give up and I was like I can’t fight this battle anymore especially alone and so on and so forth. Yeah, know I mentioned earlier, my son has been scouted by major league baseball since he was 17. Now it's 2021 and he is going to be entering major league baseball draft next month. And so, 18+ years of all the coaching and giving him my knowledge as I have played baseball my whole life, he won’t even talk to me. And is getting one side of the story from a mother who has PFAS dementia. And it’s breaking my heart, it's ripping my heart out. I asked his mom and all i said is, please tell our son and reach out to me this fathers’ days and I am sure I won’t hear from him. And, I don’t know, to be honest I don’t know why God has put me on this journey. While he has revealed to me what has caused this, he hasn’t revealed the answer how to get the help, how toand it’s so frustrating it's heartbreaking. And you know I- don’t know. You know unfortunately the corporate lobbying for these corporations that say that this isn’t a bad chemical and it’s not as bad as it you know Rob Ballot has proven that it is and just like in my testimony you know I said look Dark Waters there’s going to be a sequel to that movie and it’s going to be called dark you know darker water right here in Kent county and so my hope is- I hope that through my story you know which is a battle will be someone else’s survival guide because I would not wish this journey upon my worst enemy DD: Can you- can you tell me about any concerns that you have in particular about PFAS contamination moving forward? LC: So one of the big problems in Michigan is, we have allowed industry to build on waterways and discharge their waste water in rivers, lakes, and streams out of sight out of mind. While there is a concerted effort- and by the way 3M who created this or sells this chemical by the way has now gone into the water filtration business. So now they're making money from filtering the very 9 �water they helped contaminate. I mean it is what it is but we’ve got to get tough on this chemical. There is no if ands or buts about it and Michigan has made that step in the right direction, but we need the blood testing we need- you know look this these are human lives these are you know these are lives that are being destroyed and that has to be the focus. How can we help these individuals. Look I would love to be, you know a part of a bigger effort to help identify you know those that have been affected by PFAS. I have been exposed to it so much that I can literally recognize those that have, and if you don’t believe me, hey go get a blood test and prove me wrong. so that’s the big thing. DD: Mhm LC: We’ve got to get the blood test and from what I’ve heard my son’s mom who I still love her dearly I love her with all my heart and I’m glad that I was able to save her life, but our marriage was laid to waste because of this horrible toxin and and her health issues, but she’s finally going to get her blood tested I guess next month and you know i'm scared to see what type of exposure you know she has- you know been affected. And but I’ve tried to contact her brother. I just recently reached out to his wife and him and they won’t even talk to me. It's like wait a minute I have information that you know could help your health and find out what maybe- likely killed you father or caused your fathers cancer. And like I said I’m dealing with this PFAS dementia and its heart breaking it absolutely breaks my heart and [clears throat] I just I can’t express how evil of a chemical this is. Just you know if you see the movie dark waters and the farmer you know that farmer acts just like my father-in-law DD: Mhm LC: Not a happy individual RA RA RA all the time you know that was literally I literally could plug my family member into that movie into different characters in that movie. But we’ve got to get the blood testing we have got to stop letting companies like downplay this chemical, this is no joke. If you watched the documentary on YouTube, the devil we knew it is, it’s the devil. It’s the most evilest toxin and now it’s in our rain water and it's not good, it’s not good. DD: Well, thank you so much Larry for taking the time to share your story today LC: I appreciate it, it feels good to finally tell my story so you know I thank you for providing a platform and you know please if there’s resources that come across that you come across, please send them my way. But I’m in metro Detroit area now and I’m kind of out of the loop with regard to you know Kent county area so please let me know what going on and and if there’s you know someone that can listen to me and listen to my story and and can potentially help, You know please send them my way because you know I’m afraid my sons affected by this too and you know I know all the family member have. Look I’ve lived there for awhile you know I’m certain that I have been affected too. I want to get my blood tested to you know see what type of exposure that I have been in to but I you know thank God. One thing I want to point out too is stress seems to be a big trigger in this PFAS exposure in men more so than women. It seems that stress is a real trigger point in men. In women it really just tends to really subdue them. It’s pretty heartbreaking so we’ve got to do the blood testing. Just like in the movie where they were literally paying individuals to get their blood tested. I would be thrilled if we could do something 10 �like that, because this has got to be taken care of. Look we are in a water wonderland and like I said in my like I said in my testimony in front of Eagle you know if these sights could be illuminated Michigan would be lit up light a christmas tree. DD: Mhm LC: That's no joke, they have confirmed well over 100 PFAS contaminations sites in Michigan so I’m certain it’s just the tip of the iceberg, but we have got to get the blood tests. Throughout the state of Michigan there needs to be a regular blood test. If you feel like you have been exposed to PFAS you should be able to come in and get your blood tested, no if ands or buts. If you know if everyone wants to say how much of a pandemic covid is, PFAS is a pandemic right in our state, and and it’s growing it’s getting worse DD: Thank you Larry. LC: Thank you, I appreciate your time and appreciated your efforts and please keep in touch with me 11 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0016 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Campbell, Larry Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-06-18 Title A name given to the resource Larry Campbell, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Larry Campbell lived most of his life in Belding, Michigan. In this interview, Campbell discusses the impact of PFAS on the health of his wife and family. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/29e74ae2cbcbbd32c0975fb437c08e2e.mp4 0bf5e3bef3799a6a1622dc00e27a71cf https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8ded1b5182f5895b2e11bd487afe22af.pdf 87dbf7a9b54bb397a7a7588c9d61781a PDF Text Text Living with PFAS Interviewee: Emily Donovan Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: June 18, 2021 DD: I’m Dani De Vasto and today June 18, 2021 I have the pleasure of chatting with Emily Donovan, hi Emily. ED: Hi. DD: Emily can you tell me about where you’re from and where you currently live. ED: Yeah, so I am originally from South Carolina. I'm currently living in North Carolina and I’ve been a resident of North Carolina for, little over half my life now. I live in Brunswick county, so I live in a town, Leland, we’re right outside of Wilmington. And we’ve been here for going on almost twelve–over twelve years now. DD: Ok, Emily can you please tell me a story about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS in your community? ED: Yeah, so three years after moving to this area my husband started losing his eyesight and we didn’t know what was happening. We were terrified, we thought he was going to go blind. He had an MRI and this was around our ten year anniversary because he did the MRI and then we went on vacation, and I just remember that experience as having this kind of dark cloud looming over us. We get back and we find out that he had a brain tumor and it needed to be removed immediately or he would lose his vision permanently. So we did all the things, found a really amazing neurosurgeon, got the tumor removed and miraculously his vision was fully restored. We met with the surgeon six months after the surgery and the surgeon just looked at us–and this was literally the world's best skull based neurosurgeon, he was from Japan and had a teaching facility at Duke university, and he looks at us, and he’s like I’m good but I’m not that good. [Chuckles] That is–that is God and I had always kept that memory. I mean it was a very traumatic experience for our family but at the same time, just remembered that miracle because you hear about them but you don’t ever feel like you–would you recognize one if it happened to you. So that happened and then we fast forward to 2017 which was probably five years maybe six years later and I wake up and–actually it was in June, and so wake up to a news story that there’s a chemical plant upstream of Wilmington and they’ve been dumping large quantities of PFAS into the Cape Fear River, which it turns out is our drinking water supply. I didn’t know any of this so I start doing all of this research and like everyone else in our community, we're scrambling and we’re pulling together and we’re sharing information, and we’re reaching out to scientists. And I can’t help but wonder if what caused my husband's brain tumor was tied to these industrial chemicals that have no business being in tap but were in our tap water. And not just in questionable amounts these are insanely large amounts. I think a scientist did a study of a sample that he had taken in 2014 at the–the kind of the height of the contamination and one hundred and thirty thousand parts per trillion was recorded. It’s still questionable in my mind, it's 1 �unclear, was that just the PFAS’s that he could detect with where science is at right now, because the one thing that we are learning too, is that these labs can’t fully detect all of the PFAS, because they don’t have analytical standards for them. So there’s still this question mark of how much we were exposed to. It also was–it also started coming more into focus you know not just of what happened to my husband but, you know, my daughter’s childhood best friend. Her mother had breast cancer, at a very young age. She was in the military and then lived in this area. Her parents both developed rare blood cancers or diseases within months of each of other, and we were all living in the same neighborhood. And then I at the time was a youth director at a very small church and in our program I would you know end every evening that we met with prayer requests, and I just started realizing that we were praying for some very serious problems in these teenagers' lives. A father who had terminal brain cancer, bone and brain cancer. A mother who had colon cancer. A sister or a brother who had intestinal disorder and was so severe that he was hospitalized. So there was just all of these things, there was a kid in my youth group who didn’t even know his mother because she died of breast cancer before he was–right when he was born and so you know I just started looking around and this seems like too much disease, too much illness. I didn’t even have to go outside my inner circle to hear stories. And that just kind of resonated with me and furthered solidified that something needed to be done. Someone needs to speak up, so I helped–I was part of a group that formed in our region called Clean Cape Fear and we are a grass roots all volunteer coalition and we have just focused on trying to hold elected leaders, government bodies, and pretty much everyone including ourselves accountable. With a focus on making sure the polluter pays, and in this case the chemical company was DuPont which then spun off to Chemours. DD: And how is that work going? ED: It's been a really interesting journey, and I think–I feel like things are going good but you know I have very high standards of what I think a resolution should be. I think, you know, in a perfect world this chemical company, regardless of its name, should be making communities whole again. For the devastation and harm they caused, and we still don’t have safe drinking water. My tap water, our utilities, still record some of the highest levels of PFAS in the finished water that comes out of my tap, in the nation. But my work, what I’ve done is, I’ve testified before Congress twice. I testified in August of 2018 and then again in July of 2019. I organized to bring community members with me in July 2019 and meet with representatives, and that was a really positive experience. The community members that came convinced our local congressional representatives to cosponser the PFAS Action Act and make it a bipartisan bill. I know they weren’t the only ones that made it a bipartisan bill there were others, but that was positive to see that happen. We also, when we formed Clean Cap Fear, we–the first thing we did was host the first ever public forum on GenX. Because GenX is what was in the news it was supposed to be the PFOA [Perfluorooctanoic Acid] replacement. So everyone’s like what’s GenX and then we come to find out that really it’s not just GenX but it's all PFAS. So I think one positive thing that my group has done is we’ve shifted the focus away from a chemical by chemical approach and we’ve changed the narrative to let's talk about this class of chemistry. We really worked hard and intentional to do that. We noticed early on, one of the things when we sat around this dinning room table and were figuring out what we needed to do as a community. We realized that information was important and getting accurate information, that the chemical industry for–not just the chemical industry, but industry in general has a play book. We see it 2 �with tobacco and we see it with oil and gas and the same thing is happening with these chemicals, is that they play this game of hiding the information and making–casting doubt and making it really difficult for communities to advocate for themselves so we felt it was important to really bridge that gap of reliable information and so we focused on having public forums because there was so much silence and confusion and a lot of misinformation getting spread online, and we’re like let’s get scientists in front. Let's get scientists and medical experts, let's get the experts in front of the community and have some good conversations, and that's exactly what we did and in fact this is the–last week was the four year anniversary of our first public forum on GenX. So I don’t know, I mean obviously I don’t know if other forums were happening around the world in GenX, but I would like to think we were the first ever globally [laughter] on GenX. But it was a powerful standing room only event. DD: Wow. ED: And from that we had a second event and our second event was focused on equity and making sure this–that the information was communicated to all communities. Communities of color, low income communities, communities with English as a second language, and so we brought in a lot of nonprofits on our second forum and we made sure that everyone was networking and working together. That public officials, that the water utilities were working with the homeless community to just make sure that everyone understood. Hey, you know what, maybe we need to be careful about our tap water and we need to figure out how to get everybody access to what we feel is safe and comfortable drinking water. And then our third forum was really focusing in on the science and so we brought in a lot of scientific experts from the universities in North Carolina that had unlocked, uncovered or had been working on PFAS. And so they just really got into the weeds on that forum and by that time the media had caught on, and the media was starting to host their own public forums and so we were–there was just like a public forum on PFAS every week. And so by that point we felt like we had really initiated a concept and so we didn’t feel that we needed to host any more public forums so we just stepped back and let those continue. And so we started focusing on just network building, and alliance building, and coalition building and also just holding public leaders accountable and making sure that they did what they said they were going to do and not just talk a certain way and then act a different way. And so we’ve always just tried to maintain that perspective. Some other things that I’m really–you know I’m really proud of some of the work that we’ve done, is that we brought Mark Rufflo to town and we hosted two “Dark Waters” screening events, and so I worked really hard to make that happen. And we had–I did a ton of lobbying in D.C. and [chuckles] this isn’t even my job, I have a day job. My day job was working for–you know, building up a youth ministry, and I say was in the past tense because right before the pandemic in the beginning of January 2020, I actually retired from youth ministry and then I started working in communications for another local church so I’m still in the faith community. I just kind of shifted my gears away from doing teenage ministry more into helping communicate, with– digitally, with the church. So–but anyways in all of that I do this on the side [chuckles] this is kind of like my ministry and I think that’s what was happening is that I couldn’t really keep doing all of this, so I had to figure out what to do. So it kind of goes back to, that miracle that I felt my family had experienced when my husband’s eyesight was fully restored. It should have never been–he has twenty-twenty vision and we can’t explain it. And so I do feel that I have been called into this space to bring–to be the conscience and the humanity for society and remind 3 �public leaders that there’s a reason why you are elected. To remind scientists that the work is for the people, you know–that yes the betterment of humanity, and all aspects of humanity and that this work, you know even into the chemical industry to you know have a soul and make things right [chuckles]. So this is kind of the space that I keep trying to remind myself that I feel called to be in. I’ve also just done a–I know I didn’t go into to great of detail about the screening events but some really positive change that came from both of those events is that we got our attorney general to file a lawsuit against DuPont and Chemours seeking natural resources damages for the state. We’re kind of following up to see where that's at right now, because again there’s that accountability piece. And then we also saw the most PFAS legislation filed in the state legislature this cycle then we have seen ever, then we saw in 2018 when the legislature was supposed to be at the peak of our contamination story. So I really think that was a direct result of those screening events. So, North Carolina legislature woke up a bit about it. Unfortunately, North Carolina legislature did not progress the bills that were filed, so there was some really fantastic representatives in the house who filed some really good, thoughtful bills, and the party in control of the General Assembly right now, the Republican Party, did not move them out of the rules committee and so refused to advance them, and that has been really dissatisfying to watch. But again until we could convince the community that this is a voting topic, and not just our community, because our community is very aware that this is a voting topic, but it's the rest of North Carolina. We’re stuck, and we’re also know that behind the scenes the North Carolina Manufacturing Alliance which is the main hub that Chemours operates through is doing some heavy funding to make sure that their interests are maintained. So it's been a very eye opening experience to see how money flows through politics, to see how industry can capture public bodies, and can capture elected officials. But then also how industry can just capture the scientific narrative too, and so that has been an interesting experience. DD: Can you say any more about the kinds of legislation that were trying to be forwarded? ED: Yeah there was a Polluter Pays Bill, a local representative, Deb Butler, she had sponsored a Polluter Pays and basically it would have required any responsible party that put PFAS into a public source of drinking water was responsible for making sure that the utilities could filter it out. And so not putting the burden on the ratepayers, and it was pretty much a very specific bill that would have helped not just the Wilmington area because there are three utilities that have been impacted not–three utilities and three hundred thousand residents are impacted by this, but there’s also communities upstream along the Haw River that feeds into the Cape Fear River and Pittsboro, and their water district has high levels of PFAS that almost–I mean they’re just as high as our levels here, and that’s coming from the textile industry in Burlington, North Carolina, and so the concern is making sure that industry is being held accountable for what they’re dumping into these public bodies of water, because we can’t filter them out easily it requires very advanced technology to filter it out of the drinking water, and that’s very expensive. And as it stands right now Pittsboro residents, Brunswick county residents, CFPUA residents, Cape Fear Public Utility Authority, which is–it which services New Hanover county and Wilmington residents and then portions of Brunswick county residents are all having to pay for upgrades themselves because Chemours is refusing to do it voluntarily. That’s the big one, it did not go forward, and it did not have bipartisan support even with some–there’s republican representatives in our district who live in this contaminated area and they didn’t cosponsor–one of them didn’t cosponsor it. It was really odd like [laughter] this is why–what are your–who do 4 �you want to pay for this, it’s a real problem, and they’re just–yeah, there’s just no explanation for why he wouldn’t champion it or wouldn’t co-sponsor it. Because we had the Brunswick County representatives, our both republicans and they both co-sponsored it, they were like we’re on board [chuckles] so it just is such a bizarre situation. There were some other bills that would band–band PFAS and firefighting foam and that bill, I worked really hard with the state level coalitions to introduce that bill back in 2019 and it did not progress on in 2019. And I don’t know why because in Congress, Congress has already banned PFAS and firefighting foam, the military will no longer be using it. So it’s banned immediately from I believe training, and it will be banned completely from use by 2024, I’m not like–I can’t remember, I think that’s the date but I’m not sure. So the writings on the wall it’s inevitable, the military’s already doing it. Everybody sees how expensive it is to keep using this product, it’s a huge liability for the military, our military bases, it's a huge liability for municipalities to keep using it, so it seems like a no brainer North Carolina should actually pass this bill and go ahead and just fall in line with where the world is headed and they refuse to. The bill got resubmitted this past year and it was resubmitted by the Republicans but only as a lets catalog an inventory on firefighting foam. So it was not a firefighting band bill, it was a let’s have the state fire marshals create an inventory tracking system so they know exactly where it is but let's not touch–let’s let it still being used, and so that was just a little bizarre to me. There was movement in the house to get the bill to add banning it from training. So the house did eventually agree and pass their version that said fire fighting foam or AFFF would be banned from training and that was a modest win. But again it should be banned completely, especially when we see the military’s doing it. The Senate is debating it, and it’s my understanding that it's not going anywhere right now, but I haven’t checked in recently to see what the Senate side is doing. So this bill hasn’t been–it hasn’t fully passed, it hasn’t been signed by a governor yet. Other things, the only piece of legislation if we’re going back to 2018, so we found out in 2017 in June about our contamination. 2018 was when bills were submitted, and the only bill that got approved was this Water Safety Act Bill, and basically it gave the state agencies five million doallas to address PFAS. Compare that to Michigan, Michigan spent fifty million and North Carolina has like–DuPont and Chemours here, and they could–they only wanted to spend five million, and by the way North Carolina has a billion dollar rainy day fund. Like–is it a billion–I will have to double check, they have a massive rainy day fund and, they have the money, like there’s money they can use, it’s not that we’re a poor state at all, we're not. They just didn’t you know didn’t want to spend the money. That money was used, I believe–here’s where I have to like, I don’t want to misspeak, because I can’t remember everything that that bill incorporated, but it was modest, and it gave them–it gave money to establish a group the PFAS network which is North Carolina, education–like universities that are all supposed to start studying PFAS but the problem with doing that is that it didn’t give the state agencies like DEQ [Department of Environmental Quality] and DHHS [Department of Health and Human Services] authority to regulate. So even if the big thing that came from it is that they gave these independent scientists money to go and sample all the water supplies in North Carolina to find out where PFAS was, and so that’s good, we kind of want to be able to see it. But they wrote it in a way where they didn’t want utilities, they didn’t want any research to be done on the finished tap water only on the raw water. So it's just raw water sources that are being tested. And that’s fine that that’s being tested but DEQ can’t regulate off of any of that testing. So our DEQ said we still need a chain of command, we still have to do testing of our own in order to regulate. So that’s great that you’re letting us know but we’re still going to have to spend money and do our own work. So, it was kinda just like this silly–I mean I don’t want to 5 �call it silly because it’s great work what the scientists are doing, and the scientists just did some phenomenal work because they looked at more than just five or six, they were looking at, let’s open it up and do a wide view, you know a wide view and find out what we're seeing. So that was important for us to kind of see where it is, that was public surface water, I think they were then going to start looking at ground water across the state which is a little more tricky. And so I think they are working on that right now, but again in all of that in these four years the state of North Carolina still has not officially regulated PFAS. We do not have any drinking water standards for PFAS, we don’t have any surface water or groundwater standards for PFAS, we don’t have–any discharge limits or regulations set for PFAS. So nothing has been done in four years. On, officially and legally and that is frustrating because this is really just feeling like they’re running out the clock. It shouldn’t be that difficult to say, hey lets do something. There’s been a lot of back and forth on well, the federal government should do it, or the state government should do it. And there’s been a lot of waffling, and the most interesting thing is that the head of our EPA now was the head of North Carolina’s DEQ so secretary Regan, Michael Regan is now administrator of the EPA. Michael Regan–and super excited to see what he is going to do, and no one knows more about PFAS probably than he does, with his experiences here in North Carolina. The concern being will he act on PFAS because North Carolina was such a tricky place to be and we still don’t have regulations in North Carolina, will get regulations out of his EPA at the federal level. So there’s a lot of questions there and one other thing that I’ve done is I’ve partnered with center for environmental health, and we filed a petition to the EPA last year too [unclear here] to do human health and toxicity studies on fifty four PFAS that we documented we were exposed to either through our food, water, our air supply, or was in our blood. And the previous administration denied the petition and so we resubmitted the petition to the Biden administration, and we’re waiting to hear back and we also filed suit. So we are poised to go to court with the EPA regardless of you know which administration, just to show that this is something we feel should have been done. These chemical companies should be forced, or should be showing the toxicity data on anything that they make before they release it into the air, or the water, the soil, the food supply, you know this is just–it makes sense. You know you should have to get permission before you dump, not afterwards, but we understand that, the past is the past so let's fix it now. And it's my understanding that Chemours is actively fighting this. And so again it seems like Chemours says one thing publicly and then does one thing privately. Which is that they fight, they fight all these lawsuits there–my water district and Wilmington water district has been in an active lawsuit with Chemours for the last two or three years to get them to pay for utility upgrades, and they’re actively fighting it. And we are–and my coalision is working to get Chemours to pay for human health studies for the ones–the PFAS that we can document we were exposed to and they’re actively fighting against it [chuckles] so it's been a really not surprising journey because we knew they would play this game. But I know–what I think is interesting is will the agencies step up and do right by the public, you know who–what entities are they here to serve. Are they here to serve corporations or are they here to serve the American public, the taxpayers that pay for them because we are realizing that corporations don’t always pay their taxes, or you know find funny way to not pay taxes, but I’m paying taxes [chuckles], so I’d love to see this work for me, so. DD: So, you’ve hinted at this a little bit, but maybe you could say a little bit more. What concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward? 6 �ED: Oh-gosh, this is where I get sad. Sorry [sniffle]. DD: I’m sorry. ED: Will I wake up one day and find out that something is wrong with my kids. And it was related to doing what I thought I was supposed to be doing as a parent, giving them water. You know our pediatrician–every time we would visit the pediatrician, they were like giving us–you know encourage to drink water, encourage to drink water, and you know we did that, oh my gosh my children love water. And for the last four years they have been afraid to drink water at their school. So you know there’s– I’m worried–yeah like I just don’t know–there’s mother doubt you know. Why didn’t we have a filter on our sink just as a precaution. There’s rage of why should we have a filter on our sink just as a precaution. And then there's an aching heart for those who simply can’t have filters because they can’t afford them. But like I see and read and talk to so many people that have to choose. They’re like I can’t keep buying bottled water, or I can’t keep filtering this out and keep paying for my utility bill. You know and so then there's this over rationalization of maybe it’s not that bad, maybe this isn’t an issue. But it gets kind of alarming when you read the studies and you see what the effects are, and the information is still emerging. So that’s the biggest one is, will we wake up in five or ten years and have major medical issues because we’ve had so many in the past, and that trauma comes back to the forefront of I don’t want to deal with another trauma, another medical problem, because it was really hard. I mean we got through it, people have been through worse, you know like I get that. This is avoidable, this is preventable, there is a solution to this problem, and it's just people having the courage to stand up and do the right thing so that’s what I worry about. Oh, there was one other thing, that, that I did that I am proud of that has been successful, is that we finally got two–we petitioned two school boards. I participated in an environmental working group tap water study and I pulled water from my children’s public school and it ended up being the top. The top of the study, and it ended up being an underreported moment because we get our water from the river so the levels fluctuate. So, when EWG [Environmental Working Group] called me and said you're at the top of this list and by a lot, I was like [we're by a lot?]. I was like okay so we had the highest levels in our tap water in my children’s schools and that’s not even a full representation of what I know is in the tap water. Because they used a commercial lab and our utility is also looking for Chemours compounds that weren’t included in that so. So we are always reporting higher than what some people will test for, and so I took that information to Wilmington–[or New Hanover?]county’s school board and I took it to Brunswick county school board and I got them to install reverse osmosis filling stations in all of their schools. So forty nine public schools at the start of last school year had reverse osmosis filling stations in every school so that children and teachers and staff could access healthy drinking water and its–I’m proud of it but I’m frustrated because Chemours should be doing that. You know and here a mom in Brunswick country you know whose [son and school teachers is begging people?]to do it. So, I’m happy it's done but sometimes it's bittersweet, but the person that’s doing it, you know it shouldn’t be just me, it shouldn’t be just my group, and by the way it wasn’t just me. I have a really fantastic team of supporters–a leadership team that I work with–so yeah again I have to state that it is not just me this whole Clean Cap Fear is a collaborative effort, and there is a lot of people who make the work I couldn’t do it alone. 7 �DD: For sure. Before we wrap up today, is there anything else you’d like to add that we haven’t touched on or anything that you want to go back to and say more about? ED: No, I could talk for hours about this [laughter]. It’s been a long journey, it's been a good journey. I do want to mention too that the national PFAS contamination coalition, this is–that has been really great group to be connected to. It’s other community groups just like mine across the country dealing with similar contamination stories. Whether it's industrial or military and I’m just grateful to lean on them because I think this whole experience is–it can get isolating if you think you’re doing it alone. You know and advocates are stronger when they can collaborate, and it's been really great to have that network of support. And so I think that is the biggest takeaway from this, is that coalition building has really worked, locally, we have a really strong coalition. There's a strong coalition at the state level and then this national coalition to be a part of so it's been a really, really important for emotional health and mental health when you're going through a contamination crisis and you’re trying to advocate for better solutions. DD: Absolutely, thank you so much Emily for taking the time to share your story today. ED: I appreciate it, thank you for having me. 8 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0015 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Donovan, Emily Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-06-18 Title A name given to the resource Emily Donovan, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Emily Donovan is originally from South Carolina, but has lived in North Carolina, near Wilmington, for almost 12 years. In this interview, Emily discusses how her husband's sudden loss of sight led doctors to identify a tumor. A few years later, the Wilmington area was identified as a PFAS contaminiation site. Since then Emily has been involved in community action for PFAS awareness. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/835f596e5eb8810210894883ec763fce.mp4 03a2950ef7ee29900c697d3e246d58d3 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6a3cce8690989967f6a0ee74d6c58774.pdf be01b589b452f4d45609ad4a0ca3ea34 PDF Text Text Living With PFAS Interviewee: Linda Robles Interviewer: Dani Davasto Date: June 16, 2021 DD: I’m Dani DeVasto, and today, June 16, 2021, I have the pleasure of chatting with Linda Robles. Hi Linda. LR: Hi. DD: Linda, can you tell me about where you’re from, and where you currently live? LR: I am from Tucson, Arizona, and I live within the Davis-Monthan Air Force Base. Grew up all my entire life in the central Tuscan southside area. DD: How long have you lived within the base? LR: I have lived here all my life. Yeah. DD: That’s a long time. LR: Fifty-eight years. Yeah, it’s been a very long time. This is my home. DD: Can you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS in your community? LR: Yes, 2017- I mean, I’m sorry- 2003- my daughter became very ill. She-she passed away in 2007. I kind of thought that it might be related to the water contamination that started way back in 1980s. Well, around 2014, after my daughter's death in 2007, I became even more concerned that not only my daughter was ill in the community, so were many other children sick in the area, and then- all my other children and now my grandchildren have become- have been born with some kind of birth defect or later on got very sick. So, it-it was-it was- was the worst thing that could ever happen to a family. The experiences- the- I mean, the whole living a life like that was horrific. It was- it’s been a nightmare. Hospitals, surgeries, the-the costs, you know, and all the impacts, all the effects, all the burdens, they-they were very heavy on me. Unfortunately, you know, we did lose my daughter and one of my grand- my youngest daughter is in her end stages right now of kidney failure. My granddaughter continues to have these terrible relapses of kidney disease since she was two-years-old. She’s now going on fifth grade. She’s missed a lot of school and all that but- So my experience was around 2014. I gave birth to the Mothers Safe Water Force. At that time, after- soon after when I started- I started conducting a series of public health assessments, you know, and-and just organizing the community. I was in touch with the centers for environmental health and justice. Louis Gibbs, of course, and then- those people who just started teaching me and just really training me, and telling me, you know, and just kind of just helping me learn how to organize. I didn’t even know what to do. When I found out that the contamination I thought was cleaned up since 20- since 1980s was still a problem in our community, and then worse to find out that there was two new chemicals that were emerging, evolving safe drinking 1 �water standards and that- changing remediation methods. I did start doing the door knocking. I wanted to know. The health department and water companies and all the people involved, the EPA. You can imagine our site is a two part-and their part- is a two-part site. So, one of those sites is a military site as well, and then the other one is not. So it’s-it’s very complicated system to try to understand for an everyday mom. But I found out and I learned. I was determined. I wanna know why all these people are sick. Are we sicker than others? And come to find out we were. I began conducting these house surveys, door knocking, assessing the community, and people were just sending their surveys by mail. I mean it- the word just got out. Before you knew it, we were no longer the Mothers for Safe Water Force. We became the Environmental Justice Community Movement. All the community members, I mean, we started organizing- before you knew it we had thousands of people supporting it. Yeah, I mean, we filled up the ball rooms. We filled up thethe libraries. I mean, everywhere we went to have meetings, they were full packed. Where they were maxed. Where librarians had to tell people, “sorry we can not let you in.” You know. People were radical on Tucson Southside. I mean, they were getting radical. They wanted to know the same things I wanted to know. Because all along we thought they cleaned it up in the 1980s. We didn’t even know what a super fungicide was. DD: Uh-huh. LR: Yeah, so, then like I said, all these big organizations- all these big- you know these big government officials- they were dodging. I mean, they just didn’t even want to talk to me. Especially, when I was marching. We started marching in front of the offices. We started protesting in front of the schools. We just started- just doing one movement to another. Just pushing and pushing and pushing for PFAS regulations, PFAS, you know, investigation. And yeah- and that’s how we became the Environmental Justice Task Force. And still to this day now, it seems that everything I said in the beginning- because I did my research, I did my studies, I knew exactly where the pollution was- reporters were coming to me to find out. U of A, stu- you know, students were coming to me because I have a lot of information. How can somebody that dropped out in the fifth grade because I was just young, you know. I- I grew up on a ranch with my family, and we had horses- how can someone like that know, you know, know this type of work and I learned. And I- and I found was- those- those disproportionately higher rates of cancer in our community. The data wasn’t a lie. Our underground action tells the truth. DD: Mhmn. Mhmn. LR: That’s how we got the truth. DD: Yeah. LR: And-and to this day I am- I was not surprised that just a few weeks ago- we have been pushing for the governor to see- to address PFAS. We’ve been pushing the DOD to address PFAS. We’ve been pushing every government level to push for PFAS regulations. Stop the flow. Clean it up. Shut it down. That’s what you gotta do. So last week, we did get a report from the news media that the site will be shut down- not because it’s cleaned up. There’s not gonna a site closer because it’s a site completion and it's been cleaned up. It’s gonna close because it’s become too extreme due to PFAS exposures. 2 �DD: With all theLR: So, right now we are- Yeah. Sorry. DD: No, go ahead. Please. LR: Yeah, so right now we are forming a-a new project. We are standing in front of the schools again. We are protesting. We are just letting people know, again. Something’s in that water. Andand we’re getting them information about these issues and keeping people- getting- keeping people aware of the problem and just keep fighting until these people get some kind of justice. DD: So it sounds like you’ve been involved with a lot of different actions in the last several years. Have-have you had many successes? Or what-what has come of all these actions, in addition to the very important work of just getting information out? Has anything resulted for you? LR: Actually, yes. For the first project with Louise Gibbs, we were fighting to get the schools tested. This was before PFAS was exposed. We were pushing test for PFAS. Test the schools. Test for TCE. PAS dioxide. All those chemicals you found in that water, you go and test the schools. Federal and state facilities. Public water systems. All came back positive. And for PAS. That happened and I also- one of the things that I also was able to get- EPA to provide us with a technical assistant in 2018. This is when they were just talking a little bit about PFAS. You know, there wasn’t a lot of information they were going to give us about it, but they already knew they were there, they were showing up. They’ve been there since 2009, but that information really wasn’t coming to us. It was just between themselves. DD: Mhmn. LR: Another thing that I have done is that I have also become part of the PFAS National Coalition. Very happy to be a part of that group. We’ve been pushing for PFAS regulations on all PFAS as a class to the lowest levels, maximum contaminant levels, and also I have been part of the CDC PFAS generating committee. During a time where, you know, they have been planning on a multisite study. I’ve been really happy to be a part of that development for PFAS blood testing project multi-studies. And I’m really happy to be a part of that. Even though we were not a state picked for that-for that study- I have been part of this development and the birth of it. That- That’s okay. You know, and also, I have been able to just- to continue to support the project as well because right now we are holding polluters accountable and we feel that they should pay for the clean up. DD: And in your community, where is the pollution coming from? LR: The Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, the Tucson airport, A remediation project, known as the TARP, and also the Arizona Morris- Arizona International [Card?] base. Those are the main corporate sources. DD: Those three. 3 �LR: Yeah. DD: And can you tell me the original contamination that was being found in the water back in thein the 80s? That was- that was- what was that contamination? LR: So, in 1980s the 24 square mile area in our community was declared a super fungicide. It was placed on the National Priorities list in 1992, I believe. Since then, PFAS and deoxine were discovered. So that’s where we are right now. Currently with what EPA is saying about that clean up- that was a TCE contamination. Yes, and due to that, which included the Tucson International airport, and since then has become a steady project area. All under- under the super fun- whichwhich to me, is very disturbing because it’s done nothing for this community but has spread the contamination outwards. It started out as a three mile long plume. And- I mean, you are finding PFAS like that in Marana, the city of Marana. You’re finding it in the oil valley. And you have found it in over probably 90 zip codes at exceeding levels. Yeah. I mean, the city has unfortunately had to shut down many wells, city wells. They were also detected in the- some EPA and stateowned monitoring wells. Yeah. And I mean they’re just everywhere. They’re just everywhere, they’re just so persistent. These-these chemicals are so persistent. They’re worse than those little bugs flying around in your house going after the fruit. [Both laugh] LR: They’re just everywhere. Yeah. People are scared. People are stressing. People don’t know what to believe. People don’t know what to believe. You know, another thing that has been so unfortunate is that we have not had a lot of political support for the work. They have not acknowledged us. They- we’re really not the team of people- or the team- the group of people they like. We’ve been targeted to, you know. We’ve been lied about. You know- by-by big powerful people, you know, political people have done everything in their power to disempower our community too. You know, and-and to try to stop, you know, stop all this action and-and, you know, and they are kind of acknowledging other groups that are politically involved as the-the main people who are pushing when really it’s been us all along. Are- are com- This is where we gave birth. This is where all of this happened, you know, when the PFAS was exposed. It was because of the group and the community who took action. Who took action and started pushing and saying enough is enough. We’ve been lied to for too long now. We demand government transparency in this community because we were not given notice about these issues until way later when it was already too late. DD: Mhm. So what concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward? LR: I’m really concerned that, well, another thing that I'm really concerned about relating to the P- surrounding the PFAS is just that most states have already had their children tested, families tested, where PFAS has been found in public water systems. Our community is always last. Our state is always last. And that’s unacceptable to us. That should not be- we should not be the last all the time. You know? And-and I’m not saying the last in just the PFAS issue. We are always the last state for just about everything. Even during COVID. We were like the last. You know. You know? Yeah, you know. Always the last people- and states call us the wild west. You know. We are known for that because it’s just terrible. And I have a feeling it’s because we are a 4 �significant latino community. We are. That’s one of our largest challenges. And then, not only that, but we are- we also carry a high amount of immigrants- Mexican-American immigrants andand I believe that is one of our greatest challenges. DD: For the Tucson area specifically or Arizona the state? LR: Arizona the state. But yeah- but in Tucson alone we are a very significant- very significant population of immigrants. DD: Mhm hmn. LR: And yeah. So that’s really tough on us because the problem is underestimated. Those people are not being counted for. DD: Mhm hmn. LR: But now- Yeah. But we’ve- But we’ve had a lot of them that don’t let- you know what man I don’t care. I ain’t got my papers, man. I’m going to stand up with you guys, and you know what, we want this water cleaned up. We got our family here. We got, you know grass roots here. You know what- this is unacceptable. This is coming against the, [unclear]. You know, and-and this is how- latinos- when we get together, we fight together. We fall together and we get up together. And, and I believe that-that is very powerful. I love it. I love them. I love my people. You know, and it’s not just because- we are diverse. Our group is diverse. It’s just because by nature we are just living- we are a large population in the Arizona area. DD: Hmm. LR: That doesn’t give somebody- you know what I mean, that doesn’t give somebody- that oh they’re just a bunch of mexicans. They can wait. That’s not okay. DD: Well, it sounds likeLR: So, we haven’t been tested. We haven’t been tested for PFAS. That would be nice. DD: Have people pursued being tested on their own? LR: We are trying to. We are very poor. This is a very poor area. And in a more populated area, and [unclear] justice community area, so yeah, we-we got a lot of those, disproportionate, you know, on our side, you know, that-that- it’s not helping us. So what we are trying to do is just- we are trying to raise that money up. Car washes. Whatever we got to do. But- yeah. We were able to raise money during the Louis Gibbs project when we were fighting to get all the schools tested for PFAS and those chemicals, we were able to have car washes. You had 83-year-olds helping out at the car washes, you know? DD: Yeah. 5 �LR: Yeah. It was awesome. We raised enough money to hire our own private environmental engineers to oversee the work, and saw the work that they were doing in that town. And we hope that with this new project we can raise that money, not only just to test people, but to also raise enough money to provide them with clean water. We are demanding clean water. Safe water. Surprise. Whether you have to pry them from another state- bring them. We don’t want this water anymore. It’s- It’s not okay with us. DD: Before we wrap up, is there anything else that you would like to add that we haven’t touched on today or anything you would like to go back to and say more about? LR: If it’s possible, I would like to just touch up a little bit on the fact that another big challenge for us is that we don’t get a lot of social media interest. It’s really hard to get people- reporters and Channel Nine news, and those people. Because the polluters are all contracted with these newspapers. They’re also contracted with these- you know, to TV stations and reporters, so when we call them to come and talk to our community, that’s- that’s us. It never happens. If you mention Tucson Water, that they’re involved, they won’t even come out. They don’t wanna hear it. They favor them. And they- they believe what they hear from them. They don’t hear- they don’t want to hear the voice of the community, which are very important. Yeah. Some- we’ve had some good and some bad, but even the good that we had all turned later. You know, it started off good, but then it ended bad because then it started- the stories went from us, to you know, talking their side of the story, and their side made us look like a bunch of dummies that don’t know what they’re talking about. But, thank God that- that the Lord has exposed them and that just recently, and it has become more evident that everything we said in the beginning has been true all along. We got so many people sick here. So many people died during Covid. A lot of people have auto-immune diseases in this community. And I hope this- that we can add this- that value to you, your story and your project, and that’s what I got to say, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for all that you are doing. God bless you for that. God bless you. DD: Well, thank you, Linda, for sharing your story and taking the time to do this. It’s a big part of the project is increasing the diversity of the voices in this conversation, so I'm really glad to be talking with you today. LR: Thank you. 6 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Robles, Linda (Shosie) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-06-16 Title A name given to the resource Linda Robles (Shosie), 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Linda Robles lives in in Tuscon, Arizona within the Davis-Monthan Air Force Base. In this interview, Robles discusses how PFAS contamination touched her family and community, as well as her activism with the Mothers Safe Water Force and Environmental Justice Task Force. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/97c9be594f2e3fe201456b655bf840ab.mp4 be4680c825a52562b0f5bee7830a57a8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bc0a1b7f18ad31a49f1516310b4414c7.pdf 22a0dc906706e19a8464342dc77b3871 PDF Text Text Living with PFAS Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Interviewee: Laureen Hackett Date: June 16th, 2021 DD: I am Dani DeVasto and today, June 16th, 2021, I have the pleasure of chatting with Loreen Hackett. Hi Loreen. LH: Hi. DD: Loreen, can you tell me about where you’re from and where you currently live? LH: I am from and still live in Hoosick Falls, New York. DD: And, have you lived there your whole life? LH: Mostly, on and off I moved around a little bit but, I’ve been here, like, 45 years [chuckles] combined, so. DD: Alright, Loreen can you tell me a story please about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS in your community? LH: The PFAS awareness issue began here in basically it was presented to the village board in August of 2014 and then began the debacle of how the state did not [chuckles] help Hoosick falls for almost a year and a half, they didn’t even tell us to stop drinking the water until EPA stepped in end of November 2015 is when we finally got the do not drink order. Our levels here were extreme and blood testing that started in February with results coming in April, May, also revealed extraordinary levels, scary levels in our- in our blood in all our residents. And from then on, we started a Twitter page, PFOA Project New York, and we- it was in the beginning to, one bring awareness but two we were also clamoring for hearings on what went wrong with the department of health and all that. So, it was sort of to bring shame but also, you know, awareness- my grandchildren were in the top 3 [chuckles] tested for their levels and at the time they were age 4 and 6. I am in the top 50 and- once the do not drink order came about in, we’ll say December 2015, I started doing research because I have all these health problems that are just weird. They’re nothing that none of my family has and whatnot, so I’ve always been wondering what happened. Well, I got some answers once I started doing research on PFAS and health effects, and I have continued to do that for the last 5 years, and it gets more and more [chuckles] dire every day to the point now that I’m working with- a university, we’re collecting health studies as part of our site study that we were worded through CDC and so we- we had been sharing the monthly and we’re starting on their site, now we’re going to weekly because so many studies are now coming out fast and furious and none of its good news. So, I- as- at the beginning I thought my Twitter page was finite, I thought once we got our hearings and once we started getting some regulations I could lay off, but this issue has just, literally popped since. So I’ve continued it, my page has grown, and I almost feel obligated because so many communities are going through what we went through in the beginning. So, you know, I want my page to be 1 �reflective of awareness for a mom or dad that just found out that their water has too much PFOA in it and they can go to my page and it's easier reading stuff. I do post health studies I find if they feel like delving into those. But more, you know, general here’s a, you know, a video, here’s what this states doing here, you know so that you can understand- so that someone who- cause this is not easy stuff to [chuckles]- to understand by any means with so many acronyms, I mean that took 2 years to get them all down. Both: [laughter] LH: You know, and with more coming out now as we start digging into replacement chemicals, so I try to keep it as user friendly as possible, although I will post the health studies that I find. DD: Mhm LH: So, it’s been a job, it’s been a full-time job for me for the last 5 years and now I’m on, I don’t even know how many committees. I’m working with National Academy of Sciences as a community liaison, I was invited to speak at their East Coast panels they just had the last month or so, I am a co-chair of our community working group here because we have 3 federal super-fun sites, the 1st in the nation for PFOA, there’s 2 state sites and their looking at 5 more, so this tinyyeah, we got Chernobyl-d with PFAS. So, among that, I’m part of the national coalition for PFAS- oh gosh, I’m on our cap committee for our site study, [chuckles] so it just goes on andI’m always- and now, the last couple years I’ve been writing and helping draft legislation, whether it be in New York state or federally and we have some great partners inside our general brands office, which is the next bill I’m working on and New York state I work with a lot of the environmental orgs, been to D.C., I think 7 times, I’ve submitted testimony at 2 congressional hearings, [chuckles] I’ve been invited to Alaska to do seminar there, I’ve been to- I’ve beentravelled all over the place for conferences and it’s just- I dove in head first, head first because I just feel like I need- given this is our health, this is the health of my family, this is the long term health of my grandchildren, I’m one of those, I’m a nerd, I need the data, I need the info, I’ll read as much as I can of it even though it’s sickening and depressing and arduous at times I just keep doing it.[chuckles] So, but until the issue stops, until it’s banned or I don’t need it, you know, we don’t need to do it anymore. So, that’s one of the things I’m working really hard on and also, you know, I’m a- I’d like to think I’m the biggest advocate for children’s health, because if you look at Hoosick Falls, you know, a lot of us, good majority of us have been here our whole lives. We’re toast, there’s no helping us at this point. But if we can help our children to not end up like us and give ‘em half a chance, and it may already be too late given, you know, the levels that they were drinking. But man, that’s the goal, you know, if not for us, you know, older folks, then for the kids. They didn’t sign up to drink poison, you know, so whatever I can do to help just keep pushing that. DD: Mhm, so what happened in Hoosick Falls? Why is it the Chernobyl that you call it? LH: So, the history of Teflon, it really goes back to the history of Teflon. We had our first plant open here in 1956, so-. DD: Wow. 2 �LH: Yeah [laughs], it was called flea dodge and then, we- it just was a little industrial town. We had like 8, 10 factories running all at the same time at one point so, now all these factories have contaminated, are still contaminating, we still have 2 sites of Saint-Gobain that are still operating, and this is becoming a huge battle now too because, while New York state has declared them hazardous substances, and they did that back in 2016, which allowed them to get state super-fun site status then onto federal in July of ’17. But they’re still operating, and while PFOA and PFAS have been stewardshipped out, [unclear] the replacement chemicals, which we are finding, which aren’t regulated. So, we’re back to square one and we also know now through all the ongoing health research, that the replacement chemicals are just as bad, if not worse. So, this is going to be an ongoing- we just literally 2 weeks ago, 3 weeks ago had a PRAP from DEC, a Proposed Remediation Action Plan, for new water sources. So, we had a municipal gack filtration system on the municipal water and all the well owners got POET’s, which is Point-ofEntry Treatment systems on their wells. But we’d been looking and looking and looking for a new water source for 5 years. DD: Wow. LH: And so- yeah so, they’re- the proposal’s out now with comment due, I think at the end of the month and then we roll from there and however many years it’s gonna take to get those going and. But, in the meantime, we’re back to square one with the replacement chems and we had this argument with DEC while we’re still being contaminated [laughs]. Until they’re regulated, I can’t think of a better term than we’re shit outta luck. Which is, I suppose, you know where most industrial communities contaminated are too, until they’re- till more regulated we’re just gonna keep breathing them in. And the stacks from these plants is what contaminated us in the first place, all this stuff literally, the best explanation is, came outta the- it snowed on us for decades. Snow hit the soil, it came through the soil and hit all our water tables and aquifers and it’s still snowing. There is no regulation to make them put controls on the stacks to control the emissions, it’s not regulated. So, this is the next battle, or current battle, actually. DD: Wow. [laughs] LH: Yeah. DD: So, it sounds like you were able to get some movement, some help- some help from kind of local governments and things but not- not all the way. LH: So, our water’s filtered, ok so that- you know, alright so we’ll at least stop the exposure that way. But the exposure happened because of what’s coming out of the stacks hasn’t been remedied, other than the 2 being phased out by 2015, and EPA did an air stack test here last year which showed the replacement chems, the shorter chains, plus, I don’t remember if it was 15 or 20 long chain PFAS that all, you know, seems like every researcher will tell you are worse for the humans. There were C8’s through C18’s that they couldn’t even identifyDD: Wow. 3 �LH: -that we’re being exposed to this very minute 3 blocks from my house, and nothings been done about it. So, [laughs] you know you- you’d think with what we’ve learned even just the past 5 years, you know, you look at Rob Bilott’s story right, he’s been doing this for 20 plus, and I can’t imagine 15 more years of this and being no further along, that man must be a saint because [laughs] I have the patience of a fence post. Both: [laughter] LH: I’m thinking 5 years and I’m still [unclear] I’d be banging my head off the wall, I’d probably give up which is maybe what they’re hoping for, you know. DD: Mhm. LH: But I’d like to think that the last 5 years with community after community, you know with us and p’s and West Virginia and [cape fear] and, you know, now it’s all Michigan, it’s all headline news. So, I don’t think we’ll slide backwards, so that’s good news but we still need more regs and hopefully a non-essential use ban on all of them, the EU is doing it between 2023 and 2025. Maine just passed, a week ago, a non-essential use ban by 2030 in all products, so now there’s precedent so, bills are coming, I can tell you that, on non-essential use bans and we have the PFAS Action Act out now and Senator Jill Brand has done some wonderful bills with us. I did a Facebook Live event with her and Rob Bilott and Mark Ruffalo to announce the PFAS Accountability Act that she came her and introduced as well. So, they’ve been- Congressman Delgado has been great, he’s on the PFAS Task Force, he was just here 2 weeks ago, so they’ve been- we’ve been lucky to have some really attentive elected, you know, representatives. Congressman Tonko, he’s right on this and he’s right here in Albany next to us. Senator Schumer is well behind all the ‘get rid of PFAS’ stuff, so we’ve been lucky there, luckier than a lot of states. But, again, are we lucky that we’re still being contaminated? [laughs] You know, they’re coming down on DOD now, you know, it’s the head of the snake, and it’s a whole different animal. And that was from, you know, the firefighting foams and whatnot. So, once you stop using firefighting foams and clean up the contamination, then your exposures could- supposedly done, yeah? Well, ours isn’t. DD: Right. LH: So, it’s 2 different battles but the same dragon, right? DD: What concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward? LH: That they’re not doing enough quickly to stop exposure. Number 1, you have to stop the exposures any way possible, knowing how even the lowest doses, the lowest grains of salt in this bioaccumulate in children and cause health problems. There is no doubt now that they cause health problems, so stopping exposure has to be first and foremost and whether that’s in the air, water, food, cosmetics, wherever it’s coming from, especially contaminated communities. Cause we’ve been told by our health departments we have to lower our exposures, right so I have this huge level, in parts per trillion it’s 266. 4 �DD: Wow. LH: Yeah, so I have to go out of my way to not eat microwave popcorn, use Teflon- right cause I have to do- it’s gonna take me 20, 30 years to get that down to the [chuckles] EPA accepted level of 70 at the time, right? Well, if I can’t find it in the products, how am I supposed to lower my exposures? And they keep accumulating. So, will I die with this stuff in me? Likely, yes. Likely, yes. I’m gonna have just an extraordinary amount and I’ve never stepped foot in a factory. So, until we know where it’s coming from and stopping exposure, it’s just gonna keep building up and making people sick. So, that’s gotta be number 1. So, that would entail, right, you know, regulating all of them coming into any drinking water sources, all of them coming through the air because, you know, inhalation and dermal exposure and all that. Things in kid’s products, any- all of it it’s just- and there hasn’t been one found to be non-toxic out of the 92 hundred that are out there that we know of. Not one has come out and say, ‘this is absolutely non-toxic’. NTP and IEHS, they haven’t found that list yet. So, it’s frustrating to see congressional people saying ‘you don’t need to- we can do these 1 by 1’ yes, it’ll take 1,020 years. [laughs] okay, you know. But yeah, you have to stop the exposures, however it has to be done. Whether it’s rewriting all of Tasca, cause it’s ass-backwards. We have to start taking a precautionary principle, especially with this class of chemicals. They’re horrid. DD: Did you have any- you said that was number 1 concern that you had. LH: Number 1, we have to stop the exposures, yeah. And then, you know, then we have to look at clean up and that’s only once [chuckles] we can get the exposures stopped. Can’t clean it up if you’re still getting exposed. For here, for some place like Hoosick falls, we’re never gonna clean up our soil and stuff it just- you can’t dig down 30, 40 feet around every single house and bring us all new dirt, you know, so that won’t happen. And even though we have superfund sites, it only is site specific. We’ll only clean up around that site, not the homes 3 doors down from it, you know. So, you know, in stopping- I mean this stuff lasts forever, right? Its hundreds and hundreds of years in the soil, lord knows you can’t get it out of an entire aquifer, at least technology’s not there yet. Even trying to destroy it or, you know, burning it. We just had an issue nearby at Norlite, Cohoes and we found that they were burning it without telling anybody, the PFAS, A triple F foam. [laughs] So, that was a whole nightmare. The county executives put out a moratorium for a year to stop them from burning it, and then we passed a bill in New York State to ban burning it temporarily unless EPA comes up with some new-fangled method that would make it safe. So, this is- I often refer to PFAS as the mutant octopus, because once you think you’ve cut off one arm, 8 more grow out and it’s constant it’s always an evolving issue, it’s not a simple, ‘we can do this, this, this and have it stop’. Well, we did this and then 2 other issues came out of that and then once we did those, we got 4 more, so it’s a ever-evolving mutant octopus whose arms, they can never quite get wrapped around. So, it’s just regulation after regulation and hopefully they’ll smarten up and do them in a class and ban them, just ban them. DDT and PCB times 100, it’s that much worse. DD: Before we wrap up today, is there anything you’d like to add that we haven’t touched on or that you would like to go back to and say more about? 5 �LH: I think, you know, people don’t generally call their congress people for things. People are reluctant advocates, unless it’s an issue like this that hits close to home. I think the more people that yell, the better off we’ll be. The more pressure we put on them- elections matter. So, things that you might’ve taken for granted before, it’s time we step out of ourselves and start really yelling. And the more normal people- ‘normal’ [laughs]- ordinary citizens that say we’ve had enough of this, we’re sick of being- having all these toxic chemicals in our stuff, then that will change. And I think that those of us that’ve been advocating for this issue for the past 5 years have proven, we can make change. And we’re moms, we’re, you know, grandmas, we’re sisters, you know. We’re not anybody special, but it’s just a topic that hit us, and we proved that we can change, we can make change if we’re loud enough. So, I’d like to think that, as more people wake up to the nightmare of this, it’s in 49 states, everybody’s gonna be facing- if they look they’re finding it, so that’s the sad part, that everybody needs to just start yelling to make things happen, and it can be done. I think that’s it. And, you know, again we have to help our next generation, we have to help our children, we have to help our grandchildren. This just isn’t- and the more we learn about PFAS, suddenly the more you’re learning about other toxic chemicals that are coming to light, like phthalates and, you know, all these other things that are also harming endocrine systems and immune systems. You just can’t help but notice it when you’re reading health studies, these other ones pop up on the side, you know, and you’re like, ‘oh man BPA’ and you’re like, ‘ah geez we’re just- we’re screwed’ [laughs] and unless we make some changes, you know, you start with one issue and I still even have a hard time- this is like 30 hours a week on just a Twitter page reading health studies, I haven’t even delved into these other things yet but I know, you know, anything they have seen [unclear] immune system is horrific. But [chuckles] how did this happen, you know, how does this keep happening? It’s cause our laws are backwards. So, maybe, you know, that’s something everybody else can keep focusing on as we talk about climate change and effects of bad regulation or no regulation, this really needs to be looked at too, or we won’t be here for the climate to change, cause we’re all gonna have cancer and die, [laughter] you know. And I’ve had cancer, so I kind of speak from experience on that one. I just don’t want it for my grandkids. DD: Yeah, absolutely. Well Loreen, thank you for taking the time to share your story today. LH: Thank you for having me and thank you for this project. All necessary awareness is vital and dire now, so it’s great. DD: Thank you. 6 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hackett, Loreen Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-06-16 Title A name given to the resource Loreen Hackett, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Loreen Hacket lives in Hoosick Falls, New York. Loreen learned of the PFAS contamination in the area in 2014 and soon linked her own health problems to it. The PFAS in Hoosick Falls has been linked to Teflon, which opened its first factory in the area in 1956. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3afbe3e6ef419f2e226b5beceb23aafc.mp4 2361093f928533ec2fbb112295e11053 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/785983ef6c5962665f9d7ab4455dc1ad.pdf 8788fcee1f211068e8afbd693fd9604b PDF Text Text Living with PFAS Interviewee: Tobyn McNaughton Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: June 16, 2021 DD: I am Dani DeVasto, and today June 16th I have the pleasure of chatting with Tobyn Mcnaughton, hi Tobyn. TM: Hi. DD: Tobyn, can you tell me about where you’re from and where you currently live? TM: Yeah, I was born and raised in Grand Rapids, Michigan. And currently I reside in Belmont, which is kind of part of Grand Rapids, just a little smaller like sub-town part of Plainfield township. So, I actually grew up in Plainfield township also, and then just moved about 10 min away to Belmont after having some adventures in teaching down in Kansas. I lived there for a year but now I’m here in Belmont, and I’ve been since 2012. DD: You anticipated my next question, which is how long have you been there so thanks for that. Can you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS, or with PFAS in your community? TM: Yeah, so I, like I said, I lived in Kansas for a year, and I had been dating my boyfriend, and he lived up here in Michigan, and I said if I’m moving back to Kansas or from Kansas back to Michigan we need to get married and get a house and do all that, you know, living the dream stuff. And he said “okay, you know, let’s do that.” And like okay. So, when we came back up after we started looking at houses, maybe like 3 or 4, and we found the house that we live in now and just fell in love with the space. We have about 3 acres, have plenty of room for the potential of children, and it butts right up to the highway, and were like, oh we can get used to that like the highway noise eventually it’ll turn into white noise. And so, we decided this was our dream house and we were super stoked about it. And then we got married and 2 years after we got married, we had our first son, and his name is Jack, and everything was awesome, and we were just having the good life, like you know things were working out for us really well. Then one day I stayed home sick from work and my son and I both were not feeling so well and I got a knock on the door. And I was like okay what’s going on here and a man had handed me an envelope and said this is from a law office, it’s about your water and we’re having this meeting the next day, a meeting tomorrow if you can attend it would be great for you to come and listen to what we have to say. And I was like, this sounds very bizarre, I feel like he is trying to scam me or something. I was just very untrusting of this I was like this is just strange, and so my husband got home from work, and I was like this guy came earlier today and he gave me this envelope and said it was about our water but he is from a law office so that doesn’t make any sense he is not from the health department or from any other agency like that. So, Seth took a look at it and he’s like this actually sounds legit like this could be an issue for us, I was like okay and so he went to the meeting, and they filled us in on the potential of our well-being contaminated from a dump that is about 1.5 miles south of us across the highway behind us. And I was like this doesn’t make any sense because why would a law office be telling us this and not anybody else. And so he started, he is just the personality where he is like I am going to investigate I need to know more information, so he started calling as many people as he could figure out who to call, the health department at the township, different places, and finally got ahold of someone and she 1 �Living with PFAS Interviewee: Tobyn McNaughton Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: June 16, 2021 said “ Yeah, you probably shouldn’t be drinking your well water right now.”, and that was a big shock because no one up to that point nobody had said yeah you probably shouldn’t drink your water until we started calling and asking. And that’s where everything kind of began and then after that is just kind of phone call after phone call after making appointments to have people come and check out our well. So, that all started in August of August 2017, and then by October we knew that we had 1,961 parts per trillion of PFAS in our well. And also learned that 70 was kind of the number that they had decided in the EPA was the safe, the safer number. So, that and then our life has been the same ever since then. [laughs] DD: And, and what has that meant for your life moving forward at this point, if you want to expand on that TM: Yeah, so of course your first question. You know, after the initial shock of your well-being that contaminated that you’ve been drinking since you’ve moved here in 2012 and being pregnant, I was like I’m going to do everything right: I’m going to drink 8 glasses of water a day, I’m going to breastfeed, I’m going to do all the things, and then you stop and you’re like what if that was the worst thing I could’ve done. Like what does that mean for our bodies, so the second question was of course, well this is in our drinking water so what’s in our bodies. And so, you know, starting to try to figure out, what do we do? Like will we be getting sick? Who knows like how- who do we talk to? So, it was a lot of our own- like we had to be our own advocates and say we want to be tested, we want to be looked at, we need to know more information, and just hitting a lot of walls. Well, we don’t have a lot of information so, you know, a lot of the time I felt like people were like just, “Oh well you know, we don’t know so just don’t worry about it.”. Well, I’m going to worry about it because that’s a lot, and at the time we ended up we did get our blood tested because a law firm paid for us to do that. They felt concerned enough themselves about our situation that they said we should have this looked into for you which I am eternally grateful for because no one else wanted to. The people that I thought should care didn’t seem to and I ended up going to the health department and kind of doing my, you know, I’m angry, like I want to know- I didn’t put this in my body someone else did. Whether it was 50 years ago they dumped it till, 30 years later till, you know, longer than that, like it doesn’t matter to me, the time frame. It’s just I am ingesting something that I didn’t put in my body and I deserve to know what is in there. And it took about a year for them to kind of do a 180 on whether to blood test or not. So, I guess basically for myself what it meant was- jumping into advocacy when I didn’t want to, or know what that meant, or what that looked like, but just something like you had just-- to me I just had to do it because I needed to know this information, knowledge is power kind of you know the more information we have the better off were going to be. And I had some neighbors that agreed with that too and jumped in on that with me. So, and then for my son at the time it meant a lot of pokes, a lot of blood draws, a lot of measuring trying to see what was going on with him and monitoring what was going on with him, and being worried like every day if, you know, how this is going to affect him in the future. [deep breath] So, it really stresses me out like I can tell I’m just like, [deep breath], you know it just stresses me out all the time, and now that we have more information than we did before, like there is still a lot of unknowns and it's really scary. 2 �Living with PFAS Interviewee: Tobyn McNaughton Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: June 16, 2021 DD: Yeah, I can imagine. It sounds like you’ve had to do a lot of this work on your own, or kind of self-advocating. TM: Mhm, yeah, I guess one positive thing that’s come out of it is there’s five of us ladies, that are neighbors, we started getting together and like just ground floor like where do we start, who do we talk to first, and just making phone calls reaching out to people and the government mostly because of you know the kind of where we had to direct our attention to, you know, get these laws put into place of like this chemical shouldn’t be dumped, anywhere, and it shouldn’t be these high of amounts that people are, you know, shouldn’t be okay with, we have to figure out a real number not something that is arbitrary like something that will really say how this can affect you and why it’s not good for you. So, yeah, we just kind of started from nothing and just talked to as many people as we could and attended as many meetings and conferences as we could. And we went to DC. Two of my neighbors and I got meetings with our senators, our state senators, and one of our representatives, and we went to DC and we said please listen to us because, and I brought a picture of my son with me and I wrote his PFAS levels on it, and I said if any legislation, like if you’ve been thinking about making a bill about this, or something slides across your desk, I want you to look at this picture of Jack and know that you have to do something because there’s going to be a lot more kids than him and we have to you know try to get ahead of it and stop it from contaminating other communities. And that- we’ve helped other communities too that have, you know, newly contaminated areas just finding out that they’re contaminated now they can look us up and be like “Oh well they’ve dealt with this for a couple of years now so let’s ask them where did they start what did they do.”. So, met lots of people. Unfortunately, like a lot of, you know people, that are also highly contaminated, you know at the time of Jack's blood results he was, as far as we knew, had the highest level of PFAS in his body of any child in the whole United States. I haven’t heard any number higher than him since then, but we need to do more testing and you know more investigating and-- but it was, I was able to reach out to people in New York that had issues, and ask them too like “What is- what is your community doing?” “They’re doing biomonitoring.” “Okay how do we get biomonitoring?”, and then kind of working on it from there and now we're finally starting to get into that space where we’re part of a health study. So, and I might’ve like went off on a tangent a little, sorry [laugh]. But, yeah, that’s kind of- and it’s just we have another son now, and I went through two miscarriages in a row, and it was- that’s very difficult anyway for any woman to go through. It was very hard. We wanted to have a second child; we’ve put our family planning on hold when we heard about everything going on. But then with a lot of the people that we talked to that were like “Well you probably don’t need to be concerned, like we’re- we don’t know.”. So, I was like okay so we kind of started back up again, then to have the two losses, you know, makes you like very concerned and then I found out that if I I was suggested to take progesterone to help with the third pregnancy, I ended up with if I’ve started progesterone right away that maybe it would bring the pregnancy to be viable. And then in my own research online there was a study done over in Europe about the link between PFAS and progesterone. And how the levels are much lower in woman that have PFAS contamination, so of course I bring that information to the people that I had been talking to and to my lawyers and things like that and someone had said, “Well that was done in Europe, that doesn’t matter here.”, and when you hear something like 3 �Living with PFAS Interviewee: Tobyn McNaughton Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: June 16, 2021 that, I’m like are you nuts? Like why would you even say that to anybody, but especially me going through all this hard time. Like well that was a study in Europe, like that doesn’t, and like how does that not- I don’t -it still boggles my mind. They were like, “Well we have to do our own study here if we want to really find like the links.”. And like, this is insane because yeah, there’s so much more information like Australia’s done, you know they’ve had a lot of issues with it, Italy, other places in Europe have done lots of other studies and things- I’ve actually, I can’t see it, but I have my shirt on that I got from a lady in Italy, she gave this to me when we went to Boston to the national PFAS conference which was really the international conference because there were so many other countries represented there. She has been fighting and stuff over there and they have a lot of information, and it’s like why aren’t we talking, you know, like why can’t we all figure this out and have some kind of, you know, like come to consensus of why this forever chemical is really bad, because we know- we know you shouldn’t eat it or drink it, we know you shouldn’t have it in your body, but if you do get it in your body we should all be figuring out what to do. So, yeah, I took that progesterone, and I can’t prove it, but I now have a 16-month-old boy that’s pretty healthy. Haven’t had any blood draws done on him just yet, but he’s had a lot less issues than my first son so hopefully that’s because we’ve stopped exposure and have been slowly losing some. Because right now really time is our only thing that we can do to get it out of our bodies at this point, so yeah. DD: Well congratulations on baby two. TM: Yeah, Bruce, yeah, he is a spunky little guy. [laugh] DD: He must be. [laughs] TM: Yeah. [Laughs] DD: Well, speaking of time, can you tell me about any concerns that you have about PFAS contamination moving forward? I think you’ve hinted at maybe a few but. TM: Yeah, concerns going forward- thankfully there has been legislation now that’s made its appearance in the US government too. He's upstairs with the babysitter, [laughs], sorry. DD: Being spunky. TM: Yeah, you know, so we do have some you know legislation that’s been coming through in Michigan. We’ve had some things come through, and the state legislator- legislature to get MCLs [maximum contaminant levels] lowered or you know things like that so in the future- I’m hoping that I can start to jump back into more of advocating and attending more meetings and doing more now that I’m over a year postpartum and like covid’s been so crazy. So, I’m hoping that I can get back into more meetings and advocacy stuff. So, yeah, my concern right now is testing our blood, figuring out what it could mean finding those- the links, you know, between health issues that people are experiencing and what their PFAS levels are. Getting the health departments in different areas more on board on- the same page of how important it is to do a health study when you have a highly contaminated group of people. Use that to your advantage of getting that data and, you know, it could help people in the future, and then it has been 4 �Living with PFAS Interviewee: Tobyn McNaughton Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: June 16, 2021 encouraging to hear in the news like fast food places are phasing out their PFAS wrappers and different places are starting to become more PFAS free, and then the next concern is like whatever they’re replacing the PFAS with, whatever chemical they’ve invented or whatever they are trying to replace it with, how safe is that, and what are really the appropriate ways to use it and dispose of it. So, lots of things like that and it’s just something that I know that we're just going to- it’s a forever chemical and it's going to be a forever thing for me to be thinking about it, talking about it, working on it with other agencies and stuff like that so. DD: How do you feel about that? That it’s going to be a forever thing for you, to be thinking, you know, like it’s never not going to be a part of your world anymore, and it probably was never on your radar I’m assuming before. TM: Nope, yeah, it’s really frustrating, you know, especially when you’re talking to people about it and they’re like “You’re still dealing with that?”. Yeah, it’s going to be like- this is our life now like PFAS life we’re never not going to be dealing with it, so yeah it's not like something that we can just wash out of our bodies and just be done with it and move on, especially just my personality is I feel compelled to warn other people and try to help other people, so as more communities find out that this is their problem too, you know, it’s- but it’s really frustrating and we worry about it a lot. DD: Before we wrap up today, is there anything else that you would like to add that we haven’t touched on or anything that you want to go back to and say more about? TM: [Sighs] I guess- I just- I hope that by me talking about it more people hear about it, because there’s even some people that live like kind of in the Belmont Rockford area that still are like “What are you? What's PFAS? What are you talking about?”, and I’m like you’ve really- like we’ve been dealing with this for almost 4 years now and you're still are not quite sure about it. So, I guess I’m hoping that more people will hear it and be concerned, and not just kind of like shrug it off, you know, realize that it’s in the rivers ,and lakes ,and different water sources and just because we’re in the United States doesn’t mean our water is 100 percent safe, like we really take it for granted that we have clean water sources, but they’re not as clean as we hope. So, we all need to be concerned about it, not just the people that are super contaminated by it, like I’m hoping that other people can be concerned about it too, and that’s why I appreciate you looking into this and deciding to do an archive of it. Because that just gives more people the access to the information. DD: Which seems like that’s been a real challenge for you and your stories. Either finding access to information or helping others get access to that information. TM: Yes, yeah. DD: Well, thank you so much Tobyn for taking the time to share your story today. TM: Yes, you’re welcome. [laughs] DD: Okay, I’m going to stop5 �Living with PFAS Interviewee: Tobyn McNaughton Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: June 16, 2021 6 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource McNaughton, Tobyn Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-06-16 Title A name given to the resource Tobyn McNaughton, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Tobyn McNaughton was born and raised in Grand Rapids, Michigan and now lives in Belmont, Michigan. In this interview, Tobyn discusses how the McNaughton family learned about the PFAS present in their home's well water in 2017 and the impact it has had on their daily lives and health. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/61541d81fa10a4026050495269a8ed4c.mp4 df058693fe8bb74efc52e954f902362a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b9617f94af9f55e5e2c52076e7677866.pdf dcce55740b9c6ab4cc3c6f82517932ac PDF Text Text Living with PFAS Interviewer: Dani Devasto Interviewee: Beth Markesino Date: June 3rd, 2021 [PFAS0010audio] DD: I’m Dani Devasto, and today, June 3rd, 2021, I have the pleasure of chatting with Beth Markesino. Hi Beth. BM: Hi. DD: Beth, can you tell me about where you're from and where you currently live? BM: Okay, I am originally from Grosse Pointe, Michigan and I live now in Wilmington, North Carolina. DD: And how long have you lived in Wilmington? BM: Gosh, about 7 ½ years, now. Yeah, about that. Yeah, somewhere around there. [chuckles] DD: Tell me a story, Beth, about your experience with PFAS, or with PFAS in your community. BM: [sighs] Oh gosh, okay. Story about P- I would probably start off with my contamination story, and, just, how I found out about our contamination. And that was basically- In 2016, I was a marathon runner, you could see, like, all my medals back here as a marathon runner. As a marathon runner, you drink loads and loads of water, you know, I would run with, like, a camel back, you know, and, just, chugging my water along. And in Wilmington, it's, like, great weather, so you can run, like, all year round and it's awesome. And in April of 2016, I ran, like, two marathons back-to-back a week apart, likeDD: [chuckles] BM: -full marathons, like, 26.2 miles. I was in, like, the best shape of my life, you know, I was, I would say, 37 at the time, you know, so it was just, like- I was feeling really good at that time of my life, you know. Wilmington is a beach community, and my daughter, at the time, I think she was about two and a half at the time, and so I was just enjoying life, you know. My husband had great job and we had just moved here not that long prior to that, and, yeah, I had no idea that the water that I was drinking was contaminated. And so, just after running those back-to-back marathons, I got pregnant with my son, Samuel, and it wasn't a pregnancy that we planned, but we were, like, over the moon to have, like, a second child. And, like I said, I was in the best shape of my life, like, health wise and with, just, everything. And the pregnancy was going great, I mean, even though I was, like, 37, I was still, [laughs] you know, in good shape, even though they say, like, “oh, you're older,” I was still in good shape, and everything was going great in my pregnancy until it was, like, 21 weeks of pregnancy. 1 �I got a very sharp pain in my stomach and it was on a Wednesday and I called up my OBGYN (Obstetrician-Gynecologist), and at first I thought, like, maybe it was just gas or something. And my OBGYN told me to come in, and I brought my daughter in with me and usually, you know, when you go to the OBGYN they talk with you and you're all chit-chatty and stuff, and they were, just, like, really, really serious. And then I remember the ultrasound tech, like, ran out of the room and grabbed the doctor, and the doctor came back in and was doing, like, the ultrasound on my stomach, and then, like, told me, like, you have next-to no amniotic fluid. And it was just, like, at that time I remember, like, feeling the room and it was, like, so, like, bitter cold and, like, looking over and seeing my daughter, and she was, like, on my phone, like, watching a YouTube video. And I, like, I can remember, like, everything that happened at that exact moment, you know, it was, like, frozen in time. And she said, you have next-to no amniotic fluid, you have to get to the hospital, like, right now. And I couldn't cry. I had no idea what any of this meant, and I just got in my car, took my daughter home and my neighbors took her, and then they rushed me to the hospital where my husband met us. And then once we went to the hospital, that's when they told us that my son, Samuel, was going to die, that he hadn’t developed his kidneys, bladder, or bowel. And then they started, like, pumping me full of water. They kept, like, filling up, like, a mauve pitcher of water and, like, kept me on bed rest and, just, having me drink more and more water. And, again, we had no idea that the water that I was drinking was contaminated. We had no idea that that water had, like, the highest levels of GenX, like, recorded, but it wasn't like public knowledge. We had no idea that we had, like, over 50 different PFAS chemicals in our water. Like, I had no idea that I was, like, poisoning my unborn son, you know? I had no idea, like, the health effects that are along with PFAS chemicals to an unborn child, you know? And then, so, they kept me on bed rest, and they kept giving me water, trying to raise, like, my amniotic levels, and we couldn't get them raised, and Samuel just kept getting, like, worse. So then I went to a specialist at Duke University a couple of weeks later, and, at that time, I had placenta previa, which meant if I gave birth to Samuel natural, that I was going to bleed out, and Samuel then had, like, water around his heart, and his heart was, like, failing and stuff. So then, because we're originally from Michigan, we decided to come back to Michigan, and the doctor said I had to give birth to Samuel. And we came back to Michigan and the doctors, then, at Harper University in Detroit checked Samuel out and everything was exactly the same as they said in North Carolina, and so I gave birth to Samuel. I had to do a Cesarean and they had to cut me, like, both ways so, you know, I wouldn't bleed out, and it was, like, it was so awf- I literally felt like I was dying and, but Samuel, like, was dying, and we got to hold him, and we got to baptize him. We had our priest from our old parish came to the hospital, and our family all got to hold him, and we got to bury him at our family's plot. And we had no idea what was to come, what we were to learn, you know. Me and my husband then came home from Michigan, and was just trying to heal from losing our son, you know, especially because it was, like, I was healthy, you know, I had a healthy daughter, you know, we just – the doctors had done one of those DNA tests, and there was no markers or anything like that, and they just couldn't figure out what it was that had gone wrong. 2 �And so, Samuel had passed away on October 19th, 2016, and then on June – it's almost four years now- And, June 7th, 2017 was when we found out about our GenX contamination, and it was like front page news. It was, like, GenX and the Cape Fear River, and it was everywhere. It was like that phrase was, like, over and over again, you know? GenX and the Cape Fear River, GenX and the Cape Fear River. And because I lived in Michigan prior, I had experience with water contamination. I had volunteered working on the Flint water contamination. Even though I didn't live in Flint, I would drive from Grosse Pointe to Flint and volunteer at the Catholic charities and help them out. So, I knew a bit about water contamination, even though it wasn't PFAS, but I did know some information. So then when I heard about that we had a water contamination, it was, like, – I was shocked, but then once it became public in the newspaper, it was, like, I knew that this had to be going on for a long time and that the public was just finding out. So, it's, like, “Okay, how long has this been going on for us just to find out,” and – so then, at that time, I created a Facebook page which now we have, like, over 10,000, I think, members, and so that people in my community could go to find out information about GenX and, I – it's unbelievable, the lies and deceits that DuPont and Chemours has spun to make a profit off of poisoning people in not only my community, but communities globally. And, PFAS is just, or GenX, is just one chemical in a class of over 5,000 that are unregulated. And when I found out about our contamination, I remember going to a city hall meeting, and standing in front of our governor and other elected officials and telling them that they need to warn our community members and pregnant women about the harm of these chemicals, and they need to bring in bottled water, and- but, yet, our elected officials did not see that there was enough data or information about GenX to put out any alerts, or even bring in bottled water. Because the thing is, is that GenX is a new chemical, and because it's a new chemical, companies like DuPont and Chemours, they can use this chemical until the health information is out there showing that it causes harm. And, back in 2012, there was a chemical called C8, and they were told- DuPont was told by the EPA because they knew of the health effects and that it causes harm to pregnant women, and also to – causes liver cancer, it causes kidney problems, it causes, just, high cholesterol, all of these things. And so, the EPA said, “You can no longer use C8 anymore,” and DuPont said, “Okay, that's fine,” but then they ended up taking C8 and they just added an extra oxygen molecule, and that’s how they created GenX and was able to call it a whole new chemical and now it's - instead of a of a Long-Chain Perfluorinated Chemical, it’s a short chain. And even though it supposedly leaves our systems a lot faster than, like, a long-chain chemical, we're finding out that it causes a lot more harm than shorter chain perfluorinated chemicals do. And, I mean, it's really scary, you know? It's [pause], like, our department of environmental qualities, they knew about all of these chemicals for years and years. They never told the public. There were lawsuits, there was all of these spills and things like that. The public, like, never knew. Never knew. They knew the health effects. The public never knew. I mean, they knew there was- they allowed Chemours and DuPont to self-monitor the waste-water. I mean, it's, like – and nothing was done until, you know, 2017 when angry moms like myself just said, “Wait a minute, these are toxic chemicals in our water, and they cause all these health effects. Why aren't you doing anything?” 3 �And for, like, a long time, people looked at me as a crazy mom who lost a child and wondered if, like, these chemicals caused, you know, this harm to my son. And then we have some of the most world-renowned scientists in our field in North Carolina, and then we're having people like Dr. Detlef Knappe, Dr. Jaimie Dewitt, Dr. Hopkins, all coming out and supporting that saying, you know, these chemicals pass through the placenta to the child and it's, like, here's that information, here's that data, you know, that supports it, you know? And we're having so many other mothers coming forward and saying, “Yeah, I lost a child too. I wonder if this happened to me,” or, you know, and it's – even since then, since losing Samuel, I – my cyst, or I got cysts on my ovaries the size of oranges, and I had to get a full hysterectomy, at, I believe- I think I was, like, 39 when I got a full hysterectomy. So it was like, I can't have any more children, I have a tumor on my adrenal gland right now, and I have problems with my thyroid and my parathyroid. I have, like, cysts and nodules, like, all on them right now, and, like, my levels are just all over the place, and I have high cholesterol. I never had any of these things like years ago. Ever, you know. Like I said, I was always in, like, such great shape, and I take good care of my health, but it's these chemicals that are in our environment, here, at such high levels, and it takes years to get them out of our bodies. And it's just- it's nothing I did or anybody else did, but it's, just, these chemicals need to be regulated, and our elected officials need to be looking out for our communities and our health and our environment. And, another thing is, is even as citizens- I remember when I learned about our PFAS contamination, I remember thinking that we need to be more active about what's going on in our lives instead of just listening to what a politician says and “oh, he's for the environment. Okay, well, I'm just going to vote for him” and then thinking that he's going to do his job, you know, and I think as citizens, we need to be more proactive and not just think that politicians are going to do this job, because a lot of them don't. They say that they're going to do environmental things and they say that on their platform, but they never follow through on that, you know? So, I just really think that, as a community, we have that power to get that – get these regulations pushed forward. And I mean, I've seen this in my own life that, I mean, I don't have any scientific degree, you know. For a long-time people would say, “Oh, she's just a mom,” but you know what? I would go to all of DEQ’s meetings, Department of Environmental Qualities, I would go to their meetings, and I would speak in front of scientists. And I mean, I read- every single day, I read scientific papers and you could figure out the, you know, the language, [chuckles] you know, you read enough papers, you know, you'll understand it. And I speak at forums, and I go to our utilities meetings, and I speak to them about what our communities want and what we're seeing, and I address those concerns as a community activist. I'm even working right now to get a grant for a study for filters for our community and it's- and I talk a lot with our local senators about fighting for regulations for our state because states like Michigan, they already have regulations on the book, and so does New Jersey and New York, but we don't in North Carolina we don't have any regulations for PFAS. We do for GenX, at 140 parts per trillion, but we don't have anything for PFAS yet, so it's just really – there isn't anything that says as a resident that you can't go to these meetings, you can't speak up for yourself because you're being poisoned, you know, and you do have a say in all of this, you know, you really do. I mean, I have a daughter, she's going to be nine years old, you know? I mean, she’s – I already lost one child and I can't lose another, you know, and I want to make this world a better place for her. I want to solve this 4 �contamination, and stop these chemicals and future chemicals, because I know companies like DuPont and Chemours, they're always one step ahead with creating something new to replace, you know, a chemical and things like that. So I don't want my daughter to have to pick up this battle in the future, you know, I'm really hopeful that this is something that I can help solve within my lifetime, you know, as something for her and her generation so that they don't have to then fight, you know? But I then know that she's exposed too, she has these chemicals in her body, you know? We do have a GenX study going on. It's the first ever GenX study, and I've had my blood tested, I've had my urine tested, I've had my water tested, and I do have high levels of these chemicals in my blood. And so, I can say that, you know, I know that these chemicals are in my blood, and even though my son was never tested for them, it's like, if these chemicals were in my blood, then they did pass through the placenta to my son, and so it's just – I do this, everything I do in fighting for clean water and regulations, it's as for my son, it's for my daughter, it's for my community. And it's like, I can't get back my son or my ovaries [chuckles], you know, unfortunately, but maybe I can prevent somebody in the future from being exposed to these chemicals if I speak up, you know? DD: You've kind of started to answer my next question. BM: [chuckles] Yeah, sorry, I was – [chuckles] DD: No, it’s okay, I'm loving listening to your story. So if you don't have anything more to say in response to this question that’s fineBM: Yeah. [chuckles] DD: -but maybe you could say a little bit more about the concerns that you have about PFAS contamination moving forward. BM: Yeah, yeah, it's- the contamination moving forward is – regulating PFAS as a class is huge, so, like, in our state we have PFOA and- regulated at 70 parts per trillion. So those are just, likewe have two chemicals, you know, regulated. And so, we have to regulate everything as a class because there are so, so many chemicals under that, like, one umbrella. Yeah, and, I mean, we've already seen with a case of GenX, that DuPont and Chemours will make more replacements. And so if we don't regulate them as a class, then it's, like- it's trying to catch them in their own little game and the little loopholes of- and trying to regulate those chemicals. So, it's really, yeah. Regulating them as a class and holding them accountable for any potential new chemicals that they can use because they're very good at manipulating the system and finding loopholes in doing what they do. I mean, a lot of times Chemours, here, like, they say- at first they said that GenX was a byproduct of another chemical, you know, a lot of the chemicals that are- that we're finding in the Cape Fear River are new chemicals that are not on their discharge permit. And, they just keep saying, well, that's a by-product of another chemical. That's a by-product. And these are, like, PFMOAA (perfluoro-2-methoxyacetic acid), like, these are all chemicals that we're, like, “Wait, 5 �we don't know much about this chemical,” you know? So, it's just, like, our scientists here in North Carolina, keep finding, like, new and new, like, PFAS in our river. And then it's just, like, finding out, like, okay, well, what are these health effects? You know? And it's, like, this toxic, like, soup of chemicals. And it's, like, what are the combined effects of all of these chemicals that we don't know? So, it's just really regulating them as a class, stopping any new chemicals being introduced into production, really, because there shouldn't- they shouldn't need 5,000 chemicals. [chuckles] I mean, like, come on for, you know, sticky stuff [both laugh]. I mean, like, you know what I mean? Stop the slide off. [both laugh] Why do you need 5,000 different ones? You know? I mean, like, me personally, I mean, isn't one enough, I don't know. [both laugh] Can't one do the job? I don't know why you need 5,000 different ones, so it's, yeah, so it’s just really- That's what I really think it comes down to is just stopping all of that. DD: Before we wrap up, is there anything else that you would like to add that we haven't touched on today, or anything you'd like to go back to? BM: Just really a lot that- a lot of people – I remember when we found out that our community was contaminated. Some people had said, “No, our- we're not contaminated because, you know, that couldn't happen to us, we're not like Flint.” That's what people had said: “We're not like Flint. We're not, like, a low-income community,” or that's what people had thought. And water contaminations do not discriminate. It can happen to anybody anywhere. And if we tested everybody's water, they probably have some level of some type of contamination, so it can happen to anybody. And it's a shame that this is happening and I hate that it’s happening to my community, but it's a wakeup call for everybody. And, I mean, I'm sure if we tested your water, you would have PFAS and your water, lead, I mean, just high fluoride, just, a lot of different chemicals and, just, I just want everybody to know that it could happen to anybody. And if you got that call that yes, you have a water contamination, that it's your turn, then, to speak up about it and do something for your community to stop it because these chemicals are very harmful and it's not just some- it's just not some- I want to say it's not just some type of, like, person that's crying wolf that these – you know, sometimes people say, “Oh, it's just some hippie person talking about these chemicals being harmful.” No, it's scientific data that this is truthful, you know, these chemicals are harmful to you. There's data that supports it, and it really can happen to anybody, and it is. If we test water across the globe it’s probably in everybody's water. And these- DuPont, 3M, Chemours, we have to stop these corporations. I mean, my family in Michigan, like throughout Michigan, I have family in Wixom. They're contaminated. I have family in Gaylord, in Grayling. They're contaminated, you know? And I think about them all the time, that no matter where my family is, whether it's in North Carolina or in Michigan, they're dealing with the same thing I am. They have contaminated water. I mean, I grew upwhen I was younger, I grew up in Warren, and we had a 3M facility just down the road from us, across Eight Mile. And I remember, oh, 3M, like, the tape, you know, never thought anything about PFAS until now – I'm thinking, “Wow, I wonder how much of my early exposure did I get from that facility?” You know? DD: Mhm. 6 �BM: So, it's just- it's this buildup, you know. How many times did I go to my grandma's house in Wixom, and did I get exposed at her house to PFAS, too? You know, it's like that build up through the years. And then on top of it, my long exposure here to just so many PFAS. So, it's, yeah, it can happen anywhere, a contamination, and nobody is exempt from being contaminated, you know? It's in your food, it's in your clothing, it's in your beauty products, and we have to do something to stop being exposed to these chemicals, you know? DD: Mhm. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Beth, for taking the time to share your story today. BM: [chuckles] Thank you. I hope I covered everything. I'm very passionate about stopping this PFAS and GenX. Just, I've seen too much happening in my community and, like, in my own life, you know, I mean, it's just been – it's hard when, like, you have to take- I have to take so much medication daily and go to so many doctor's appointments, and still I fight, [chuckles] you know, because that's all I know now is to fight for clean water. You know, it’s become my life now, you know? And, I know, just, so many other people, that's what they're doing too. So many people are called water warriors, because that's what they are. They're, just, they're having the same thing happen to them. Their families are sick, too, from these chemicals, [chuckles] so, and I hope that you get to talk to all of my friends too and hear their stories because they're all just so brave and doing some great things and fighting. So, but thank you so much. [chuckles] I’m like, crying. DD: Well, we know how important water is, and, so, thank you for the work that you're doing. BM: Thank you. I appreciate it. [chuckles] 7 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Markesino, Beth Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-06-03 Title A name given to the resource Beth Markesino, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Beth Markesino lives in Wilmington, North Carolina and is an avid runner. In her interview, she discusses the impact PFAS contamination has had on her life and health, and that of her son Samuel. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3544423da97070dbf57805f7dc181897.mp4 f6a6cd0718aff86254128bf8b523c6de https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ef83d090ed82e4cfc738301ce8f992a1.pdf fb7454f9543db4295e0068510b2bfec6 PDF Text Text Living With PFAS Interviewee: Peggy Merrill Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: June 3, 2021 DD: I’m Dani DeVasto and today June 3rd, 2021, I have the pleasure of chatting with Peggy Merrill. Hi Peggy. PM: Good morning. DD: Peggy can you tell me about where you’re from and where you currently live? PM: I am from, originally, the east side of the state, and moved here after I got out of college and lived outside of Grand Rapids, Michigan for the past 30 years. And now I just recently moved to the Hastings area which is just south of Grand Rapids. DD: And how long have you been in Hastings? PM: Lived here physically for 4 months but I’ve worked here for 3 years, and my husband is originally from here so very familiar with the area. DD: Wow, so you just moved. [chuckles] PM: Yeah. [chuckles] DD: I’m sure you maybe still have some boxes and things. PM: Oh yeah, and dirt for the yard. DD and PM: [Both chuckle] DD: Can you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS, or with PFAS in your community? PM: I can. PFAS, I had no clue what PFAS was until my sister-in-law- am I able to share her name? DD: Yes. PM: Sandy Wynn-Stelt called me, this was, what, 2017, and said something about her water was being tested because they had found something near her house at a- what was it? Airport? Some kind of reserved site, or training site, for the army, I think. Anyway, and said that’s really weird. And then about, I don’t even know how much longer, she called me one day and said, “I’ve got all this PFAS in my soil!” and that is when I learned what PFAS was, had no clue what it was. 1 �Basically, it’s on everything, I think. And I think it was at that point, oh, then she had her blood drawn and her level came back higher than any blood level of PFAS in someone’s system, I think, ever that they’ve had recorded. And that is when I said to her, “that’s what killed my brother.” Because my brother had been diagnosed, about a year before all this started, pretty much of the blue with liver cancer. We- I went with her when he had to go in and get his hernia taken care of at the hospital, and you know the doctor came out and everything looked good and blah, blah, blah, and then she called me a couple of days later said she’d gotten a call saying that he had liver cancer. And so, within a span of about 2½, 3 weeks, he ended up on hospice and he died, [cries] [sniffles] and to this day they say there’s no relationship that they can correlate to his liver cancer but a lot of the tests that she has shared with me as far as the studies and stuff show that it does cause various cancers and who knows what his level was. DD: Mhm. PM: Because they lived there for 25, 30 years, almost, and he drank water every day, you know, and subsequently my sister-in-law was diagnosed with thyroid cancer and luckily that was taken care of and she has no traces of it in her system now. But this whole PFAS thing, I mean, we spent every holiday there so, drank their water. My children, when they were little, they would be babysat and spend the night and they had bottles made out of that water. It just really makes you wonder down the road, you know, what’s gonna be the effects? And my sister-in-law, I mean, I’m in the medical field, and if I were her, and I know her very well, it would be like every ache and pain or bump or lump you know “What is this? What is this?” Because, you know who knows? And so, I have just stood behind her, to this day and till the day I die will contribute that to my brother’s death. Because it was just, I’ve never, I mean I’ve seen death, I work in health care. But to see someone go from being a vibrant person to sitting in a bed at University of Michigan hospital and the doctor saying there’s nothing they can do, going home on hospice and dying a week later. I mean I know it happens to people without PFAS in their blood system but that’s my story and I’m gonna stick to it. And I’ve often wondered about getting my own blood tested and my children, I mean I know they’re not children anymore, they’re young adults, but you wonder. Everybody has it in their system, I mean I've read- my sister-in-law forwards me articles all the time- I mean you probably do Dani, but you wonder, like, gee I wonder what my level is because it’s this forever chemical and I’ve drank their water for 25+ years every time I was there. Wha-whats the level in my blood? But on the same breath, it’s kinda like, eh, [chuckles] if I find out it’s really high, there is nothing you can do about it. So that's kinda a moot point but again I’m kinda scientific so I would- I am curious in some ways, and I’m curious for my sons and my husband. So, I mean that's the story I wanted to share because I think they need to regulate it, and it just leaves me I can't talk about certain shoe distribution companies because I refuse to wear their shoes [chuckles] because of, you know, I- we’d been to my sisterin-law’s house, you know, numerous times and when she told me the stuff that was buried there I’m like, “oh yeah I remember seeing that stuff.” and since then, you know, we’ve walked around and you can see pieces of tanned leather, you know, all that concrete- or excuse me, metal barrels that were buried there and it’s just, you know, their home was a haven for them both, it still is but it’s a polluted haven in the ground. [chuckles] I remember they tried to grow a garden one year, and they did not have much success. [chuckles] [moderator chuckles] Makes you wonder why. You know you wouldn’t wanna eat the vegetables anyway I guess, but- so I mean that's kinda what I wanted to share, I will stand behind my sister-in-law forever and ever 2 �because I think she’s been a huge voice in this whole thing and I think it's important that it be shared with everybody and, again, regulated as far as PFAS goes and anything, so. DD: Yeah, well I do so appreciate you sharing it, and I’m sorry for the loss of your brother. PM: [Cries] It’s weird, you miss him, I mean we all have people die in our families, but we were very, very close, and it’s just hard. Even, what, 5 years later, 6 years later? DD: Yeah. It’s hard. PM: Yeah, and I guess one other thing, heck, as long as I’m crying I might as well cry! You know, my mom lost a daughter, my sister, and then she lost my dad, and a year after we lost my dad is when Joel became sick and, she was there when he passed away [cries] and she knew about the PFAS and it was so hard on her and until she passed away a year ago she was worried about Sandy all the time, I mean she started to get somewhat forgetful like you do when you’re 89, and she’d- “How’s Sandy? Is she really sick yet from that PFAS?” [sighs] So. [sniffles] DD: And Joel, Joel is your brother? PM: Yeah, yeah, my mom had 2 sets of twins: Joel and my brother Paul, who’s still alive, were about three years older than me, and yeah. [deep sigh] DD: What concerns- What concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward, Peggy? PM: Well, I have a concern that, you know, I know this house that we built, my sister-in-law said, “get your water tested.” She said, “you will be surprised where it is and where it isn’t.” and, you know, she’s right because we live by fields where farmers know, but we didn’t get it tested cause it cost too much [chuckles], and that’s kinda sad, I mean, that is a test that if people wanna have done whether it's on their water or whether it’s a blood test, it shouldn’t be some astronomical cost. I mean again, there’s nothing they would be able to do right now, althoughwe, you know, we had it in our water we’d know to get a better filter, but the tests I think when I asked a local water conditioner place was like $300+ to get it tested for that. DD: Wow. PM: So. So, I think that’s one of my big concerns, hopefully to see it phased out and not be used on stuff or- you know. I don't know if you’ve seen some of the movies that are out there, I think once they stopped manufacturing this, now there’s some other chemical that they’ve found, you know [?] it’s kinda the same thing [nervous chuckle]. DD: Mhmm. Mhmm. Yes, yeah, I’ve heard that, you know just for some, in some cases they’ve just shortened the- the chain, the carbon chain so it’s very similar but not, not technically the same. 3 �PM: It makes you wonder down the road, are they gonna find that this is similar to the lead poisoning that they dealt with, with the kids from, you know, paint and dirt and stuff? And in 40 or 50 years, who knows? DD: Mhmm. Yeah. Do you find that your experience as a medical, someone who works in the medical field has, played a role in this or impacted your- your [?] PM: I think it’s impacted my thought process. I mean I- I honestly think the general population that isn’t interested in this or doesn’t have much knowledge of it doesn’t really realize, you know, how bad it can be. DD: Mhmm. PM: That, that movie that Mark Ruffalo did about that that was such a powerful movie, and I took friends of mine when we went to the screening with Sandy, who had no, you know, knowledge of it and they just went as support people, they were blown away by the movie and, you know, it was a good movie overall, but the information in it, and, you know. So yeah, I don't think the general public really realizes, you know, unless it’s directly affected them. DD: Mhmm, yeah. Before we wrap up, is there anything else you’d like to add that we haven't touched on today or anything you’d like to go back to? PM: I don't think so, I- I really think down the road anybody that is in an area where they question PFAS being in the soil or in the water, it would be nice to just make that a blood test that people could get their blood checked, just to see. Again, you can't do anything about it right now, but it would be interesting. So, I think that’s it. And I appreciate you sharing the story with whoever hears it, because I think knowledge is power and the more people that know the better. DD: Yeah, I agree. Well, thank you so much Peggy for taking the time to share your story today. PM: Thank you. 4 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Merrill, Peggy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-06-03 Title A name given to the resource Peggy Merrill, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Peggy Merrill moved to the Grand Rapids area since the 1990s. In this interview, she discusses the discovery of PFAS in the water at the home of her brother, who passed away from liver cancer in 2017. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/95bc5e2ce1cce409723437486c8651b8.mp4 2847111c65c59bbd76389e60cb7726e1 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8b54521dd324c29223715f49d24ba13a.pdf 3b23af45a1a76cc6a87e6f99a7f3e35e PDF Text Text Living With PFAS Interviewee: Senator Winnie Brinks Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: May 24, 2021 DD: I’m Dani DeVasto and today, May 24th, I have the pleasure of chatting with Senator Winnie Brinks. Winnie, thank you so much for talking with me today. WB: You’re welcome, I’m happy to join you. DD:Can you tell me about where you’re from and where you currently live? WB: Yes, I currently live in the city of Grand Rapids, Michigan. I have lived here since I came to the city to attend college. Before that, I was born and raised in Washington State. DD:Oh wow, what a beautiful place. WB: Yeah. DD: Can you tell me please a story about your experience with PFAS [Per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances] or with PFAS in your community? WB: So, I first became aware of PFAS in our community here in Grand Rapids, or in the Grand Rapids area when news stories started hitting in the summer of 2017, and they were talking about contamination in the Northern part of the county that was due to use of the chemical to waterproof shoes that had been in use for a couple of decades, several decades even, and the community was completely unaware of the dangers of the chemical, and even that it was in their water. So, I took great interest in that, in part because it was close to home, but also because I started getting phone calls from people in that community and they were telling me their stories and some of them were just tragic. And I just started to really dig in because there's really nothing more important as a foundation of health than having water that you can trust and that is not contaminated. DD: And so you started to dig in and what did you - what kind of transpired from there? WB: So, we realized how pervasive PFAS in water is, not just in Michigan. I think we know a lot about the prevalence of this chemical or this family of chemicals in Michigan because we bothered to take a look, now. But I’m certain it is quite widespread throughout the nation, certainly wherever we have industrial sites, a lot of plating, or anything that requires waterproofing. And a number of other uses so we just kind of started getting more and more information, understanding some of the health impacts, understanding government response to it - from a township level all the way up to the state and federal levels. And just realized that there was a lot of work to be done to address it, to ensure our constituents that this was �something that we’re paying attention to and that it’s important and that we would help remedy it and, very importantly, prevent it from happening again in other communities if at all possible. DD: Can you say a little more about the kinds of options that are available to you as a political leader from remedying or taking action? WB: Yeah, I think the first and most obvious thing that we have tried to do, and it has now been accomplished, is to institute permissible levels of any contaminant in drinking water, right, we all know that there’s a tiny bit of lead, and there’s a tiny bit of different things that are harmful to us, but they are in our water in very small amounts. And the reason they are in very small amounts often is because we detected them in higher amounts and decided to regulate them and treat water for them to remove things like lead from our drinking water. And we just didn't have a rule for PFAS, for any of the chemicals in that family of compounds, to guide water systems and what they needed to do, but also to ensure that there was only small amounts or none of those PFAS compounds in drinking water, so I proposed a bill to do that. Really, a better tool to do that would be through the department to go through a rule-making process with public comment and scientific study and to establish those standards, and since I started proposing it in 2017, in law, the department has, with the change of political control in the governor's office, the new governor decided to continue that process and to expedite the rule-making process to ensure that those chemicals were adequately addressed in the protection of water systems and the requirements placed on them to remove certain quantities of certain compounds. I think there’s seven of them that are currently regulated, so I think that’s the most important and significant thing that we’ve done to date. Also establishing a body within a state government to actually take a look at the PFAS problem throughout this state from various sources and I think another thing that is certainly incredibly important is when they identified PFAS in lakes or rivers, they would go upstream and basically try to figure out where that was coming from and to address it, to reduce the flow of that - of those chemicals into our water systems and when we test for water in wells to be able to know if it’s present. If it is present, then try to figure out where it’s coming from and, occasionally, the departments are incredibly effective at limiting the discharge of those chemicals from various sources. So being able to identify the sources before it's identified as a contaminant is sometimes an incredible way to stop further contamination. DD: Just to clarify, is the department, for you, EGLE when you say WB: Um, so it’s a little bit of both EGLE and DHHS. DD: All right, thank you. WB: So a lot of healthwork and health studies have gone on through the DHHS, and I think in part had representation. The Michigan PFAS action response team - they had representation from different departments as well working with them, but the regulatory aspect happened through EGLE. �DD: Okay, thank you, I just on - on maybe a side note - were you aware of PFAS before people started to come to you and tell you their stories at all, or was this something WB: I was not, I was not. And you know part of the reason people came to me was because they were talking to other elected officials that represented them in the northern part of the county and they were unresponsive. They just kinda kept saying: “yeah, we’ll take care of it,” and didn’t really do much about it, and so there were lots of folks who either lived there, in the northern part of the county currently, or previously for many years and now lived in my legislative district, so they now started coming to me because they felt were being listened to. And that's a constant refrain from lots of folks whenever there's the initial information that is coming out of a chemical in their water and so, to me, it's just really important to make sure that when new information becomes available about something this important, that we make sure that we are taking a moment to listen to those, those constituents are impacted - they are often the most well-informed about what's going on and what they’ve attempted to do to remedy the matter, but until significant attention from people in the halls of power, it just doesn’t get addressed. DD:Yeah. It’s a collaboration, isn’t it? WB: Yeah. DD: So as someone who wasn’t familiar with it, it sounds like one way you were learning about it was by listening to people. Are there other things that you do as a political leader to learn about PFAS that you did learn, because I know people bring all sorts of concerns to you - as government folk, you have to know lots of things about lots of things, so I'm just kinda curious. Beyond listening was there anything else that you did to begin to understand this so that you could move it forward in the legislature? WB: Yes, yes absolutely. I started doing a lot of research, so, you know, initially, just kinda scouring the internet and making sure that I understood exactly what PFAS is, how it originated, how widespread the use is and for what kinds of industries, so I did a lot of just kinda digging around as an individual, just kinda getting out there and seeing what I could see. We saw a lot of great coverage from reporters throughout the state on PFAS issues, so that was really helpful too - it kept it in front of not just me, but of constituency other policy makers so that was really incredibly helpful. But I also reached out to GVSU, to the Annis water institute, and spoke with I’m gonna say it wrong - Rich Rediske, and he was incredibly helpful and very instrumental in helping me understand what tools were available in terms of constituency and how to address this issue in our community in ways that have been effective in the past with other contamination and communities in west Michigan, so it was really helpful and I would say lastly seeking information from the department and importantly folks in Oscoda. So, Oscoda is the site of a military base and they had significant contamination there of PFAS and they had been fighting with the military on cleanup of a number of other chem for many years, and having little success, and it was then discovered in addition to all those other chemicals, there was PFAS present as well in very large quantities, and its having a huge impact still on their community, �but there have been people who have been fighting this fight for many years, trying to understand what's in their water and how to address it and how to respond, so that really helped me put together the pieces of what needed to happen - not just at a local level and the state level, but also at the federal level. DD: Is there anything on your plate right now in terms of PFAS work? WB: So yes, we’re constantly being vigilant about ensuring that water systems are responding and that they have the resources to do so, and the state can be really instrumental in ensuring that states - that water systems remain as policies, that water systems have the resources to add the filters they need to remove from the water. We also have to ensure that EAGLE is adequately resourced so that they can do that upstream work to locate areas of contamination, so that’s always something we’re keeping an eye out for. I think on the horizon as we learn more and more about additional compounds in this family of chemicals, that we will need to add chemicals or add certain additional compounds to the list of regulated PFAS compounds in our drinking water. Part of the flaws in our systems, in some ways, is that we’re very reactive, so we wait ‘til we have all kinds of information about chemicals that we think are probably harmful and we have a good amount of evidence that points to the direction that they are likely to be harmful, but we wait ‘til we have lots and lots of proof until we actually take action on them as governments. And I think that’s to the detriment of the health of our constituents, in many cases, so I think that as we see these chemicals replaced by industry with quote on quote “less harmful alternatives”, we’re really just seeing a shorter chain molecule of the same substance being used. It’s highly effective in achieving the purposes that they would like to achieve; it can be incredibly useful in making our lives better in some shape, but we are then exposed to continued health impacts and environmental impacts because we are unwilling to respond proactively to the wealth of information we see in the direction that it’s pointing. So I think that we’ll have to keep an eye on adding those additional compounds to the regulatory framework, and as soon as we have information to do so, we should take action on that and, frankly, I think it would be really important to help support industries to find alternatives that are not harmful that don't contaminate our water or impact our health long-term. And that may require some research scholars, it may require some assistance to ensure that we're moving in a direction that won't harm us. DD: So, you kind of, I think, anticipated my next question a little bit, but do you have any - what concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward? WB: Yeah, I'm really concerned that as we see more and more people who understand what they've been exposed to in various communities, now that we know how to test for it, we understand some of the harmful impacts. We’ll start to link health issues with that exposure in a more true way. I think in the past we’ve seen lots of people with inexplicable health issues from certain communities and we haven't really been able to pin it down, so I think as we go forward, we’ll get the benefit of that information, but it's also unfortunate, of course, because we’ll do so by learning more about the harms it has caused. �DD: Absolutely. Before we wrap up today, is there anything that you would like to add that we haven't touched on, or anything that you would like to go back to to say more about? WB: I think one big thing that is hard to wrap our heads around and really grab onto is the necessity for this to be regulated at the federal level and even at a worldwide level. It’s a compound that now we are finding literally everywhere in water. It’s incredibly difficult to destroy or get rid of. You can filter it out of drinking water, but then you have to do something with it, you know there is research on incinerating it, which we’re not sure is completely safe yet. You can basically isolate it and put it in a special landfill, but this is an enduring chemical in a way that we haven't seen in most other chemicals that we have identified as problems, and I think it has real potential to do incredibly widespread harm unless we interrupt this cycle of using it. And you know we already have a massive challenge just containing what we know exists out there, and so it can be daunting. But I think it’s one of those things that really deserves worldwide attention and international cooperation and I'm not sure we're really seeing that yet, but I think in the future those conversations are going to be really important. DD: Have you had any conversation or outreach yet with federal or global levels? I mean, I know Michigan is kind of leading the way on this, so I imagine that if you haven’t, you will. WB: Yes, yes, certainly a significant amount of conversation with our congressional members and our two US senators - they’ve been really great at identifying this as an issue and understanding that Michigan is poised to be a leader in responding to this, so making sure that we are talking about what policy changes can happen at the federal level - that would be helpful not just to Michigan, but to all of our states, is something that we've had significant conversation about. And I think that, you know, there's a lot of work to be done on this, so those conversations will continue for many years I think, but they've been really productive partners in terms of trying to pull all the levers that they have at their disposal at the federal level, and then various states responding at the state level in supporting them and being a model for them. But internationally, no, not much, you know, I'm aware of some things that are happening elsewhere but no, certainly no cooperation or significant conversation. Not sure head of state would take a call from a little state senator [laughter], but there’s certainly opportunities there and I hope that we take advantage of any opportunity we have conversation about - this and to deal with this in a much more productive way. DD: Yeah, I mean, it’s like you said, it’s likely in so many more places than just Michigan, we just haven't looked yet, but it seems- not - exciting might not be the right word, but hopeful for Michigan that we as a state could be a leader in this forefront - like a positive that we are making those steps, so I find that encouraging. Maybe that's the right word. WB: I think there’s one other thing I would like to bring up. In Michigan, the state laws- there's not really a setup incredibly well to sort of hold polluters accountable and to get them to participate in making things right when something is discovered. And part of that has to do with time frames, and statutes of limitation - when someone can bring a lawsuit it is harmful to individuals or harm to communities, so I have also proposed bills that would address that. So far �they've gotten no legislative attention to move toward being passed, but I think that's also going to be a piece of this moving forward. We’re going to need to help the industries that have used this to understand that they do play a role in remedying the damage that was caused, and the harm that is being caused to people's health, and they're going to have to participate in that. There's certainly a huge role for government, but there's going to be a role for private industry to pay and I think to be responsible, they're going to have to step up to the plate as well. And currently, we don't have the tools to obligate them to do so, and to take responsibility for their actions, and so I would like to see some changes there too. DD: That seems important there are lots of stakeholders in this situation. [ both speaking ] Yeah. DD :Well, thank you so much, Senator Brinks, for taking the time to share your story and your work today. I appreciate it so much. WB: Yes, you're very welcome. I look forward to viewing some of the other interviews, and thank you for bringing the voices of not just me, but all the folks that you're talking to to the public record and hopefully together we can make some progress. DD: My pleasure. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brinks, Winnie Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-05-24 Title A name given to the resource Winnie Brinks, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Michigan State Senator Winnie Brinks currently resides in Grand Rapids, Michigan but was born and raised in Washington. In this interview, Brinks discusses her role in advocating on behalf of her consituents for clean water and a healthy environment in the state government. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/de2b660352e5037db0dafaf86a58d40d.mp4 b2f17065cbef332f8f70648daabd8299 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/79b9c08b8c380db250d0d17a76a2645c.pdf 21a285522a55c52bed4dd5a0066d73c6 PDF Text Text Living With PFAS Interviewee: AJ Birkbeck Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: May 19, 2021 DD: I’m Dani DeVasto and today, May 19th 2021, I have the pleasure of chatting with AJ Birkbeck. Thank you so much for being with us today AJ. Can you tell me about where you’re from and where you currently live? AJ: Well I grew up in Grand Rapids, Michigan and went to school in Ann Arbor and after that moved to Chicago where I worked for many years as an environmental attorney. DD: And are you still based in Chicago right now? AJ: I do maintain an office in the Chicago-land area, and I’m still licensed in Illinois but I’ve been focusing pretty much exclusively on Michigan of late, so that’s my focus and especially when it comes to PFAS. DD: Alright, can you tell me how long you’ve been here? AJ: Well, I spent all but 17 years of my life, so over 50 years I’ve been in Michigan. DD: Okay. So AJ, could you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS in your community? AJ: The main story is just unfortunately the lack of information that’s available to everyone. You know, critically, lawmakers don’t have accurate information, and many times they’re being informed by the chemical industry exclusively, not necessarily by science. As science is coming online, not only in Michigan but across the country and around the world, it’s becoming evident that this problem is a lot bigger than people thought, because these chemicals are everywhere. So, the story is: how can we get information out to people and how can we inform people of risks related to PFAS, and that’s what we did when we discovered the wolverine contamination in Rockford, MI, which is one of the most contaminated locations in the US. Even worldwide, people have heard of it. DD: Do you want to say anything more about your efforts to help get out information to people? Especially kind of surrounding the Wolverine West Michigan area? �AJ: Right. Well as a group of citizens, to say resources are limited is kind of an understatement. It’s something that people in the neighborhood do in their spare time and there was a lot of footwork done, a lot of discovery. It’s when we clearly determined there had been releases of PFAS in and around Rockford that needed to be addressed. The next big step was informing the regulatory community because still to this day, these chemicals are not effectively regulated at the federal level, which is just incredible. But in Michigan, fortunately they moved very quickly in legal moves with regulation that happened to be exactly timed with pleadings that came down and legal actions between the state and federal government and wolverine. So it all was a simultaneous recognition that something needed to be done. The regulations were passed and wolverine agreed to step up to the plate and really move forward with a lot of what’s been happening out at that site right now. DD: Can you tell me a little bit more about your role in this process? AJ: Well, I’ve spent my entire career out at locations working in communities on large contaminations. The biggest client for many years was actually an instrumentality of the federal district court in San Francisco with the Northern district of California. We worked directly for the court working on cleanups that were driven by community concerns. I had experience in doing things like that, and I received a call one day from a small community group, that’s the CCRR, and they needed legal advice as to what they could do with respect to the tannerring. I heard about some of the things that were going on, and I tried to reach out to city government at the time, but they really weren’t interested in finding out what was going on, or in any investigation. For the first time in my life, I met active resistance from a unit of government. I worked in my day-job for decades with municipal leaders in a very constructive way, and here, the door was slamming in my face. So I agreed to work with the CCRR in bringing action in Belmont and Rockford, and that effort so far has resulted in, my guess, and wolverine hasn’t disclosed any costs, but at least $125,000,000 in response costs. So, it has resulted in what I think is a significant improvement, not only to the environment, but in human health, which is most important. It’s unfortunate that the exposures were there as long as they were there, but I think, you know, as a result of literally, concerned neighbors saying something isn’t right here and digging deeper, and deeper, and deeper, we have prevented all those folks from Belmont from drinking what was the most contaminated drinking water I would argue in the nation. I think there was a couple of commercial wells that were tested at slightly higher levels. But I mean this is one of the most PFAS impacted sites that there is. The fact that people were sitting there drinking this water everyday, you can't taste it, smell it, or see it, it was just insidious. The fact that we cut that off by who knows how many years, 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, any day is too long to continue drinking what those residents were forced to drink. As we got more and more into it, I got more and more passionate about communities really needing help. What was going on in Rockford was the impotence for the founding of the PFAS alliance, which is- the motto is “From Communities, For Communities”. Taking everything we’ve learned in an area with very �little guidance as to what you should do as an impacted citizen, if it’s just finding out that you’ve been drinking PFAS for 25 years, you know, that's a scary prospect. There’s a lot more resources now than there were, but at the state level they’re really stretched. We need a lot more focused [?], which means a lot more resources, which means a legislature that’s willing to vote those resources into place in order to deal with this problem which is just getting bigger. I mean literally, go online to MPART and every week its 2 or 3 new sites. We had a big jump with, I think over 50 sites when the regulations finally came in. It’s so many communities being impacted and each one is related but in a unique way. So, how do you address that? It’s a huge problem which comes all the way back around to: I see this as a communication issue. A need to get information to the people who need it most, especially people living in impacted communities. DD: Do you want to say anything more about the PFAS alliance and either how that came to be or any of the work the PFAS alliance is doing right now? AJ: Some communities like to keep what’s going on behind a wrap, so if there’s a community that wants to remain confidential, we honor that request. We’ve reached out to a number of communities. Unfortunately, we are strictly an all-volunteer organization. We’ve received just a couple of very small grants, and on top of that it’s all volunteer work. So we have a dedicated group of directors and other folks that are members and work with us to really reach out, indepth, to communities. One of the communities we’ve recently worked with was down by Gerald Ford International Airport. There were, I believe, 247 households there with impacted wells, and we are working to ensure that they get hookups to the city of Grand Rapids water, which is very clean in respect to PFAS. So it’s the kind of thing that, as a community, they can’t do those things themselves, they don’t have the expertise and scientific help like we’ve gotten from GVSU with Dr. Richard Redinski, and with my experience with working with environmental laws with big cleanups in communities. Whenever we see success, like we’ve seen in several of the communities, it only makes us want to work harder and try to get the word out to more and more communities. Right now, we are just limited by assets. We do not have, you know, the grants behind us to really make things work as we’d like to. Because if we could expand and get out into 10s of communities, instead of just a handful of communities, which is all we can do at one time now. There’s 160 communities waiting for help across Michigan right now. DD: Wow. Before, I know you’ve mentioned that you’ve been involved for a long time with large community cleanups. But before you got involved with this, were you doing work with PFAS? Or is this a new contaminant that you encountered with CCRR? AJ: You know, it’s interesting. I used to go every year to these events that were hosted by the state of Michigan, DEQ at the time. You would sit around the lunch table with people that you mostly don’t know, and I happened to sit down next to a gentleman named Bob Delaney. Bob �Delaney is truly the biggest hero we have with the PFAS movement. He identified this stuff at one of his sites where he was project manager. He was researching into it and the more he found, the more terrible it became. He tried to elevate that within the state to an issue that should be addressed immediately. He even came up with a plan on how to address it, and unfortunately, it was placed in the circular file by those who made decisions, and there was no action taken. It turns out that literally 10 years later, actually it became more like seven years later, it became the template of how Michigan has handled this. So, you have a man that seven years beforehand was screaming, “something needs to be done about this”, I happened to sit next to at lunch. He started to explain this [?] and asked “have you heard of it?”, and you know, I hadn’t. I stay on top of these things, but the industry had done a very good job of making this appear to be a miracle group of chemicals, and it was like this isn't great? Science at work. “Oh so we have some evidence that it does some really bad things but we’ll just keep that quiet because this is extremely profitable and we don't really have proof.” That's basically what they ended up standing behind for nearly 50 years: We don't have proof that it's bad. The fact that there’s so many of these, 5,00 on a recent international science call. I meet every month with this group of PFAS scientists from around the world, but there has now been 9,000 categorized of them, and we know the health effects of approximately 2, maybe 3. The information we have, even there, is limited. So, this group of chemicals is out there and I think it’s something that ultimately, I became active in the environmental side of things as a geologist and in the light of when it happened with the love canal. That opened a lot of people’s eyes and I think when PFAS hits the mainstream media, there’s going to be a lot of eyes that are opened, as far as, “wow, I had no idea something this toxic was this close to my life every day”. They’re talking about going into camping stores where they have rack after rack of waterproof parkas and there could be a serious inhalation risk associated with that. Who would have had any idea? Dental floss, you know, wrappers for your burger, it just keeps coming up. The information that’s coming in daily is just mind boggling, and I actually suggested at a think-tank meeting that we create a worldwide information repository, scientifically vetted, because a lot of what’s going on right now is happening in the European Union. They tend to look more at human based health studies. So it was suggested that we start this, myself and Dr. Rediski are co-chairs on it, 2 and 3. We are working with China, Australia, the folks in Washington, and the European Union to get as much relevant health information in front of people in an easy to use interface and try to make that happen. But again, it’s all volunteer time by 20 people, no funding, no nothing, so it’s very frustrating unless you're plugged into that whole system of applying for grants and doing all that kind of stuff. We just have so many communities that need help, that we haven’t done that. DD: It seems like sometimes the timeline for some of those things like applying for grants and working through certain processes is not in sync with people’s needs too, adding to the challenge. �AJ: Yes, although I will say there’s been a number of groups, I can’t even list all them here, but one group in particular, Freshwater Future up in the Traverse City area, and they’re international as well, they’ve helped us with several grants. They’re helping us with our website right now. They are the group that came up with the $80 alternative to the $300 water testing alternative offered by the state. $300 is a lot for a lot of people, and the fact there’s an $80 alternative out there is great. Unfortunately, they had to shut their labs down due to COVID, but I’m trying to find out when they’re going to be back online. Ultimately, in my opinion, the way to address this is an initiative that I started with former chair of MPART, Steve Slyburn. We came up with computer systems to track, using PFAS, everywhere [?], then goes a step further to model groundwater flow to tell you if it’s moving towards you. So you can go and enter your address and it would say “you’re a quarter mile away from a landfill, where we know there’s PFAS, but you don’t have to worry about it because the water is flowing in the other direction.” Or, “you should be worried about it because it’s coming in your direction.” Those are the people who can’t know on their own, due to low funds, to test their wells. They could at least spring for the $70 and say “okay I’ve been drinking poison water, what do I do? Okay I get a filter, now what do I do?”. The state just doesn’t have the resources to deal with individual hits like that. There’s going to have to be a structure put into place, but the best hope right now is to come up with a system that allows any member of the public in Michigan to enter their address and find out if they’re at more risk or less risk. It can’t be able to say, you are definitely impacted. But I think people, if given the opportunity to check into risks, often will. We’re hoping that would be the case with this system. DD: That sounds like a great idea. I hope it comes to fruition. AJ: It’s been promised by the state by the first quarter of 2022. We’ve been told that certain aspects of it, the most difficult is the ground level water modelling as far as direction of groundwater, nobody’s ever tried that at a statewide basis based on well logs. They have to verify the data, because often well-logged locations often list the wrong location. That’s the element that’s taking the longest, but there’s 32 other layers of information, including manufacturers who utilize PFAS, in most cases in strict accordance with the law and there’s no spills. But, shouldn’t the person who lives right next door to that plant be able to say, “Okay, I’m going to spend $70 and test my water, and if it comes up clean then I can say I have a good corporate neighbor.” If it doesn’t, then we’ve got another site added to the ever growing list with MPART. Each one is a community with their own stories. DD: To go back to that original problem, the one where you said, “how do you get information, especially information about risk out to people?”, this would really help to address that lack. AJ: Right. Unfortunately, it’s come up against some real roadblocks. With respect to EPA, they have not really been allowed to look at PFAS until recently. The plan that they came out with in �the last year of the Trump administration was: “We agree to look at it, we’ll get back to you in a year.” They’re saying they could be as long as a year away from regulating this at the federal level. Which, by that time, Michigan’s regulations will be years old. Good for the folks in Michigan for recognizing how important water is and getting regulations in place to protect them. DD: So this kind of leads into my other main question, what concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward? AJ: It’s just that- I think unfortunately there’s parallels with what happened with Covid, which is initially ignoring the potential gravity of the problem. Then when it hits, really going through a period of denial, “oh it’s not that bad yet.” You know, I found that even immediately in a case in Rockford, you could go up to almost half of the people you run into, and they won’t even really know what PFAS is, because Rockford has been on clean water since at least 2000. It’s one of those problems that unfortunately unless it’s happening to me, it sounds pretty complex. These 5,000 or 9,000 chemicals that the federal government doesn’t even regulate. There’s a very high degree of apathy, but when people begin to realize they are being exposed, it’s in 99.9% of people in the world. You have it in your blood right now, I have it in my blood right now. The question is, how much? The question that very few people have been able to look into is, how much is too much? What we know about the current PFAS contamination is that they’re really bad. Instead of being measured in parts per thousand, parts per million, or even parts per billion, the regulations for PFAS are as low as six parts per trillion. It’s difficult to comprehend how minute that is. An analogy I’ve heard is: when there’s one drop of water in an Olympic-sized swimming pool that renders the whole pool undrinkable. That’s some pretty toxic stuff. In the 50s and 60s, people were disposing of it in tanker trucks, thousands of gallons a day. Sometimes a local dump would take it. [?] turn on the spigot on a truck and just drive along the side of the road. This stuff can pop up anywhere, and it has been. In surface water, it’s pretty easy to identify because you have foam, and it’s a different kind of foam. It’s not that brownish-yellow natural foam, it’s bright white. Frankly, [computer stalls] [inaudible]because they’re PFAS in the Grand River, it doesn’t take much to generate foam. DD: So before we wrap up today, is there anything else that you’d like to add that we haven’t touched on? Or is there anything that you would like to go back to? AJ: Sorry, my internet is absolutely horrible. I used to have these fancy offices downtown and now I’m in the middle of the country in a rundown old town and we have to rely on cell towers that are miles away, [?] the phone companies lobbied….[inaudible]. DD: Uh oh, Aj I think you might have cut out...you’re back! �AJ: Can you hear me now? DD: I can. AJ: [Inaudible]...so now even though these phone lines [?] they won’t connect it. So actually, 100 years ago in 1921 there was better phone service here then there is today. DD: Wow. AJ: Anyhow, did I mention the one drop in an olympic sized swimming pool? Because I don’t remember when the question interjected into my line of thought. So I’m just trying to think where I left off. DD: Yes, you did talk about the one drop in the swimming pool. We had been talking about the concerns you have with PFAS contamination moving forward, and some of that conversation was helping people understand the magnitude of the problem. I don’t know if that helps jog your memory at all. Wait, are you still there? AJ: I mean without hearing what I really said before, I really risk repeating things, and that’s kind of embarrassing. It’s a result of the medications and everything they have me on right now. I don’t know if I could just listen to it and then we could ask that third question in a follow up in a day or two. That way, I could just say, “oh i left out these two or three points” and we could wrap it up that way. Does that sound like something we could do? DD: Yeah, absolutely. I can send you the recording. AJ: Unfortunately, with the recording also I’m usually a little more honest than I should be with the things that I mentioned to you earlier. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Birkbeck, A.J. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-05-19 Title A name given to the resource A.J. Birkbeck, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource A.J. Birbeck is an environmental attorney based in Chicago, but originally from Grand Rapids, Michigan. In his interview, he discusses the lack of information available to the public about PFAS and his work in communities with large contaminations, such as the the one in Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0af0527e421f10b2e7ea753910d7c8d7.mp4 0562173539c4fa0dd5b6710833511c89 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/05ede121339cff1f60241d7b11b60fc4.pdf 90de3536df8f5176615f327ba24dee6d PDF Text Text Living with PFAS Interviewee: Lance Climie Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: May 14, 2021 DD: I’m Dani DeVasto, and today, May 14th, I have the pleasure of chatting with Lance Climie. Lance, can you tell me about where you’re from and where you currently live? LC: I currently live in Plainfield Township, in Plainfield Township water system. Northeast set of Deenly, in that area. I have lived probably within 5 miles of that location the majority of my life. My family has been in 4 Mile and Beltline area since the 1870’s. So, long time in the area. DD: And how long have you been in Plainfield Township, specific? LC: Since I was born? DD: Okay, so yeah. LC: I have lived– I have worked away from Plainfield Township, but I’ve always said you got us working– but our primary residence was here, so. DD: Okay, alright. Lance, can you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS in your community? LC: Well, it’s kind of interesting ‘cause our family, we were fruit farmers, and I remember my grandfather talking about Wolverine’s offer to come spread “sludge,” free fertilizer, on your fields. Come to find out, this is how they are disposing a lot of the PFAS residue, was by offering to spread it free as fertilizer on farmer’s fields. They offered it in a sincere manner. A lot of people took them up on that, and my grandfather thought they were quite out of their minds, not knowing what they’re putting into the ground. So, little flashbacks like that, it’s- Or the fact that my father was- is a retired Plainfield Township employee. He was the original Parks Department person there. He’s been deceased, here, about 8 years but– being at the dinner table with him, and he starts just kinda huffing and, you know, upset with people at work because they’re going to let people build houses up on House Street dump. They were going to change the zoning, and a lot of people would go build up there on the ravines and the dump around the dump. Why would you let people do that? So, those are- I guess I got a couple of different recollections of that year. It’s been around a long time, and there’s always been whispers of it, and you’ve seen signs of it. Then you see things like a dump at the old Bell dump on the Beltline, and there were precursors of PFAS that should have been warning signs, but sometimes it costs governments and businesses too much 1 �money to really look at what’s really happening with what might happen, versus what they just got paid for. DD: And with your family’s history with being fruit farmers, were you- did you- did your family take up the offer for the sludge or anything like that? LC: No. As a matter of fact, I remember my grandfather talking to some of the other farmers, and said, “don’t you let them put that stuff on your ground.” Just not– but he did. He was against- I remember he was railing against DDT [Dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane] when it first came out, think it was just [?]. He was an advocate of using very little in the way of chemicals, natural fertilizers– Organic farmer before his time, just because it was the common sense way to do it. It was a good environment. He was- So we were definitely connected to the land, andAnd again, long ago, the county tried to take some of the farm to expand the dump that existed on the East Beltline a long time, too. That was a family fight, as well, too, that went through courts before we kept them away from taking the farm. So it was a– Some different stories, I guess. I kind of come at it from a different perspective. More of a family history perspective than- you know, a lot of people moved into Plainfield township and they moved into area, and had they known, they probably would not have done that. But, like I said, something was building for a long time. You know, I want to say that it’s unfortunate, and hopefully we’re able to rectify the situation, but this is a bad deal what’s happening right now, and it’s not going to get better unfortunately. DD: Is your connection with PFAS, then, mostly kinda through your family history and just being in the area for a long time? LC: I’ve also fished the Rogue River in 6 different decades now. So I’m a very– I’m an avid trout fisher and I’ve been involved with trying to limit it for a long time. We put- We are sorta affiliated with an organization that’s put close to 3 million dollars in working the watershed, just in the Rogue River, here, in the last 7 years. So we’ve been very aggressive in working to maintain that river and to improve it, not only for the common sense environmental aspects of it. It’s an economic engine, as well. So having a clean, chemical free trout stream [mumbling] within 10 miles of the major metropolitan area is a rare jewel in itself. DD: What concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward? LC: That it’s going to continue to spread, and we have no idea where it’s going to go. We do not have detailed mapping [of] the geomorphology in layers below us. We don’t know where it’s going to end up. All we know is it’s going to keep spreading. We got plumes, now that we have an idea of where they’re coming from, but we don’t really have a specific idea- you know, a specific detail or facts to back any of that up, and the will to drill all those wells in all those locations at all those depths is– it’s an economic obstacle. So I don’t really find a way to address it. We are just trying to remediate the best we can at multiple spots. And the rest is just going 2 �to continue to evolve, and in a way, we don’t know what’s going to happen, nor do we really have the power to stop it at this point. Unfortunately. DD: (chuckles) Yeah. It doesn’t feel really good. LC: Well, but things like this have been occurring at different levels for a long time. That’s- You know, like I said, our family has been fighting ground water pollution since the early 60’s without much success. ButDD: How does that- I was going to say, how does that impact your perspective? [laughs] LC: Well, first off, I think it taught me that an individual does have some power in the world to try to effect change, and it’s our obligation to take that responsibility. I mean, it’s our world. Got generations coming after me and I don’t want it to be a worse place, I want it to be a better place. So, it’s really pretty simple. Make the place better for my kids and their kids and their kids. DD: Yeah. LC: Basic premises. DD: You make it sound simple. [laughs] LC: Well, sometimes it is. The problem is the real world is not simple. It’s not black and white. It’s all shades of gray and it’s a jumbled mess. DD: Well, seems like if you can hold on to that simple truth it might help a little bit. LC: Well, it- Yeah- When I get to hold onto my grandkids it makes it pretty clear. SoDD: Yeah, absolutely. I bet it does. Before we wrap up, is there anything else that you would want to add to that we haven’t touched on today, or anything you would want to go back to expand on. LC: Well, yeah, I’m not going to go into any hindsight at this point, but I think that it’s important for us as a community action group to try to make sure that Wolverine stays on their toes regarding their mediation that was promised at the tannery site, and to properly make sure that the House Street location is secured as best we can at this point, and that doesn’t include planting 10,000 trees on top. DD: You’re not a fan of the current proposal. [laughs] 3 �LC: No, actually. I read science. I understand science and I can read it and understand that- No, the hocus pocus doesn’t work, so– ‘Cause trees, they will actually accelerate movement of materials not slow it down. DD: And aren’t there currently quite a few trees on the site? LC: Yes, it is. Look at it right now. So, [laughter] I listen. You know, we weigh in. We want to do the right thing, so. DD: Yeah. LC: It’s best as it was recorded in the settlement. DD: Yeah. LC: So hold them to it. DD: I hope we can. LC: I do too, I do too. But like I said, it’s been– Over the decades, it’s been pretty inspiring to see the work that’s been done within the Rogue River watershed and in Plainfield Township, regarding the improvement of the river itself. I mean, it’s gone slow, but year by year it getsthe river improves and it’s getting better, and there’s more people getting involved in that work. So there’s definitely hope down the road, too. DD: What are some of the improvements that you’ve seen happening? LC: Well, I can tell you one specifically, actually- there’s two things specifically that our [?] limited chapter worked on– was first taking out the Rogue Creek dam, specifically behind the school there in the east side of town. And second where Reds on the River near used to sit, there was little Blakeslee Creek, and it used to run in when it came the river in 2011 and 2012. With all of the developments that were up above it and all the higher elevations, it would be solid mud coming down. And it took us a few years ,but there were 3 small cofferdams that we got taken out and we actually regraded it and actually reseeded it and got a lot of irrigationexcuse me, the erosion takes care of. So it’s no longer a huge mud source in the river. Again, the- what came from the tannery not going into the rivers is a blessing, and what used to come from the papermill in Childsdale not being in the rivers is a blessing as well, so it’s- those are a couple of the major things but it’s get- you know, and it’s individual property owner, you know? Somebody lives on the river and makes sure they got a setback of 20 feet from the river and not mowing all the way to the river. Simple things like that, not using the types- use a chemical that’s natural- use something that’s going to be beneficial to the river, not derogatory. Some– a lot of what people put on their lawns, it all ends up in the watershed. So it’s important for us as individuals to look at what we are doing to our lawns. I mean, you know what? And a 4 �few weeds are okay. You know, it’s not going to– and as a matter of fact a few dandelions are good for the bees really here. DD: Yeah. LC: So, there’s again, from a farming aspect, you can’t- to me, my yard is sterile. It’s a monoculture. It’s negative, it’s contrary to what nature wants to do and it’s artificially manufactured through the use of chemicals in most cases. So, I mean golf courses. Golf courses are highly manicured fields of weeds done in specific manners with specific chemicals. So. DD: Yeah. LC: But I think there’s still hope, let’s just- I would like to say the chemicals are not going to continue to spread but I think we are going to continue to discover that it continues to go wider and wider and hopefully the- we can impact the [?], at least, by knowing about it, we can hopefully prevent some people from tapping into that as they have not done, and past people weren’t so lucky to know what was there. But now at least we know it’s there and can make sure they’re not going to be pulling the drinking water from the groundwater there so that’s an improvement as well. DD: Yeah absolutely. Well, thank you so much Lance for taking the time to shareLC: Thanks. DD: your story todayLC: Good luck with the project. I think I’m- I know I’m [?] the archives in the school because I used to write for the [?] back in the day. DD: OhLC: I’m on record in there someplace. So. DD: Oh that’s great [laughs] LC: But thanks a lot. 5 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Climie, Lance Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-05-14 Title A name given to the resource Lance Climie, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Lance Climie has lived in Plainfield Township, near Deenly, Michigan for nearly all his life. In his interview, he discusses his family history as fruit farmers and how Wolverien offered to spread free fertilizer, or "sludge" on the fields. Only recenlty have people realized that this sludge contained PFAS residue. Climie shares other stories about his grandfather and other farmers' knowledge of other chemical contaminants in the environment, as well as his own perspective from fishing on the Rogue River. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f29a6dabf7ffab00479f5fc16c092b77.mp4 1aa6c9f4a8ebd77fda93f9d4dbb78168 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f1ae26b275d2c03816ed5cfb45994e8e.pdf 423ccd662dd077b5e5d44ffd0431d6a7 PDF Text Text Living with PFAS Interviewee: Jonathan Miner Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: Apr 13, 2021 DD: I’m Dani DeVasto, and today, Apr 13, 2021I have the pleasure of chatting with Jonathan Miner. Jonathan, can you tell me about where you are from and where you currently live? JM: Wow, that’s a long story, I’m old now. DD: [laughs] JM: I’m a Hoosier by birth, but I grew up on the East Coast, in Maryland. I went to the University of Maryland and got a degree in landfill engineering. But my wife is from Missouri, so back in 1991 we decided to split the difference and move to the midwest. DD: [laughs] JM: I took a job with a local company, and I moved from Baltimore, Maryland out to Rockford, Michigan - a suburb, just north of Grand Rapids in 1991. DD: Alright, so, you’ve been in Rockford for - wowJM: 30 years this year. DD: Ah, wow, must not be too bad. JM: No, it's a really great place. It’s a really great place to live. DD: So, can you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS in your community? JM: Yeah, my family, like I said, moved here in 1991, and we’ve- my boss at the time suggested Rockford as a great place to raise your family, because it's like Mayberry, you know, the crime rate here is an overdue book at the library DD: [laughs] JM: And my kids actually walked to kindergarten. 1 �DD: Wow. JM: We had moved here from Baltimore where, you know, you don’t let your kids out of your sight. Kids used to show up on milk cartons. Here [pause] it was just like shaded trees; it was just like Mayberry. We moved here with my two young daughters and they started school here and raised our family. At the time, we lived right in downtown Rockford in an old house and all of our municipal water was drawn from the Rogue River, which runs right through town DD: Mmhmm. JM: - Rockford was founded on a - alongside the river with a sawmill that was powered by the river. And factories were powered by the river, so we’re a river city. Our water sources were pulled from the river and treated at the water treatment plant right alongside the river. And it was downstream, important word, downstream, from the tannery. So, probably more than a hundred years ago, Wolverine Worldwide shoe company was started in Rockford. They’re most famous for making hush puppy shoes. But they also own a lot of other brands: Caterpillar, Harley Davidson, some other shoe brands they make, but they are still headquartered in Rockford, Michigan. They’re our biggest employer. They’ve been really good for the community in terms of prosperity. But they ran a tannery that was right along the river, and back in those days people just [pause] amazingly dumped things in the river, and buried things. So when we moved here our city water was drawn from the river and treated at the plant. We became good friends with the guy who ran the plant. He was a good guy, and he worked diligently to make the water safe to drink. But no one knew about PFAS back then. No one had the means for testing for it, or eliminating it from the water. So he was proudly treating the water. In fact, he used to bottle it and sell it at farmer’s markets and festivals in town. “Hey, here- for a dollar buy a bottle of our great city water.” DD: [slight disagreeing noise] JM: We all drank it, and one of my daughters, my oldest daughter, was sort of a fitness or health - shes a little mature for her age - but she was very conscious of drinking water and not soft drinks or juices with a lot of sugar, so she drank water all the time. DD: Wow. JM: And we thought, wow she's being very healthy, and encouraged her to drink water. So all of us in town were drinking water that probably has, had, PFAS in it. We don’t know. No water samples survived. I’ll talk about it a little later but, our bodies probably don’t have the PFAS in it anymore. So, my personal interest in it was wondering what effect that had on my family’s 2 �health. What long term effects, if any, will PFAS have on my family? Living right downtown, we, you know, we’re near the tannery. We used to live South and a little East of the tannery. About 5 blocks. And on a summer day when the tannery was working, and our windows were open, you could smell the tannery. DD: Yeah. JM: So you kind of just always had this eerie feeling that your environment wasn’t the healthiest. The smell of the tannery and knowing where the water came from, but nevertheless, that's what we had, that’s what my family grew up with. [pause] So, then about 1999-2000, the city changed its water source from drawing from the Rogue River to wells, deep wells, drilled outside of the city limits; south east of the city. I’m not sure why they changed. I don’t know if it was a capacity issue or not but, coincidentally, and some people are suspicious of the coincidence, about that time, Wolverine Worldwide, maker of Hush Puppies, was notified by 3M that Scotchgard, one of the ingredients they used to waterproof shoes, contained PFAS. They were learning that PFAS was potentially dangerous and pervasive. They told Wolverine that they were going to change the formula and encouraged Wolverine to stop using it or whatever, butDD: Mhm. JM: To some people it's curious that that’s about the time our water source changed and some people think that the city was told to do that or suggested that Wolverine - I don’t know if it's a true story. About that time the water source was changed to deep wells instead of the city and I feel better about that. DD:[laughs] JM: [laughs] And then around 2010, the tannery was demolished. You know, they slowly stopped doing any tanning in the U.S. It’s labor intensive and environmentally not easy to do, so they shut down and demolished the tannery in about 2010. Now we have a big green field of grass along the river where the tannery used to be. So, that’s the story on the city water. I’ve never had well water, unlike many members of our CAG, Community Advisory Group, that I’ll talk about a little bit later. So all of my personal exposure would have been from the city water for a decade that my family drank. Now, a few years ago, my wife and I were out gardening in our yard and we stuck a shovel in the ground and found some shoe leatherDD: Ah. JM: - in our yard, so she was concerned that maybe some dumping had occurred in our yard. But we had some people come out and do some test digs and they didn’t find any other shoe 3 �leather. We’re pretty sure it was just stray trash. But, you know, if you find something like that in your yard, it's like, “oh no, are we going to find barrels of PFAS in our yard?” But, no, we didn’t. So, my concern for my family is the ingestion and I’ve talked to people from the Michigan Department of Health, and the Health Department is now just beginning studies of PFAS and health effects. They’re recruiting volunteers to give blood samples. They want people that have a fresh dosage of PFAS - who have currently or are recently drinking contaminated well water. Because, PFAS, apparently even though it's a forever chemical, it does leave the body after a number of years. So if you tested my blood or my daughter’s blood, you probably wouldn’t find PFAS in there. Becauses of that, the Health Department can’t really correlate the PFAS level in my blood to my health outcomes. DD: Mhm. JM: That is the plan for the health study. They’re going to test the blood PFAS levels of a lot of people and see, correlate that with cancer, or liver disease, or other kinds of health issues. That health study is just beginning now. DD: And that’s the MiPEHS study, right? JM: Yeah, there’s two studies and I’m not sure the difference between them right off hand, MiPEHS is one of them. JM: Another part of my personal story with PFAS is that I am on the Rockford Planning Commission. As a planning commissioner I am concerned about - concerned - that’s the wrong word, interested in future land use of primarily the tannery property. Wolverine has a couple other facilities in town like an old shoe sole factory that's actually right in my backyard. I can see it from here. DD: [chuckles] JM: Right, which they’ll probably be vacating eventually, so mainly, that the big tanning tannery property is a big grassy field right downtown along the river. So, I’m interested in what that’s gonna become. Is it gonna be donated to the city for an amphitheater? Will Wolverine put up an office building there? Will it become residential? All of that will affect the city. All of that requires different levels of remediation to get approval. So as a planning commissioner, I’m interested in the land planning aspects of that property, and what the best use is for the city and to make sure the planning gets done properly. So, given those concerns, when the EPA, Environmental Protection Agency, formed the CAG [Community Advisory Group] back in 2019, I applied to be on it and luckily I was chosen. There’s about 20 members on the CAG. The purpose of the CAG is to communicate with the parties involved with the clean up of Wolverine 4 �waste. That includes several sites around Rockford. I don’t know how much of this you need to hear, but there’s a dumpDD: As much as you wanna tell me. JM: [laughs]There’s two big spots. There’s a dump on House Street, North West of Rockford that Wolverine, back in the sixties, used to dump sludge- industrial sludge that contained PFAS. They buried barrels, and dumped raw sludge into this dump site. Back then, it was the thing you did. It was an approved site and they were driving trucks out there and dumping it. In fact, sometimes farmers would pay them to dump this stuff on their farm fields, because it was a fertilizer. I don’t know how the crops grew. You know, that was back in the day when you didn’t have filters on cigarettes and seatbelts in cars. You were living dangerously. DD: [chuckles] JM: Uh, [chuckles] so, that’s one site, the House Street dump site, the other big site is the tannery - the other hot spot. So the purpose of the CAG is to meet with the EPA and EGLE, E-GL-E, which stands for Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes, Energy, used to be the Michigan department of Environmental Quality, so we meet monthly with EPA and EGLE and stay up to date on what's going on on the clean up. What is Wolverine doing and their hired contractors and what are the requirements, what do the test results show? We get into the nitty gritty of PFAS levels in the river, in the plume, where it's tracking - all of that stuff. And then we turn around and face the community and tell them what we know. JM: So we’re the communication conduit between the community and those involved in the clean up. I think it's been great. We have about 20 members; they’re varied in experience. I’m a retired engineer. We have a professor from your college, in chemistry, who’s an expert in this area. We have a lot of people who have had some serious exposure issues. One of our members, I believe, has the highest PFAS concentration in her blood of anybody in the world that’s been tested so far. She has some tragic personal family health history that you’ll probably talk to her about. We have a young mother whose 5 or 7 year old son has been drinking contaminated well water, highly contaminated, well water since he was born, so my exposure is nothing compared to that of some of the other members. Anyway, the CAG has been very good. I'm thankful for the EPA for forming it. The EPA and EGLE, both, they’re representatives have been wonderful. They’ve been honest with us and very informative, they’ve been great. JM: Unfortunately, Wolverine has not joined the CAG. There are some lawsuits flying around and these days when a company gets accused of something, the first reaction is to lawyer up and huddle and plant down, and they’ve kind of done that, not surprisingly. They do attend the 5 �meetings. We see their little Zoom picture now that they’re there, they’re listening. It would be great if they could contribute and talk to us, but I understand why they won’t - can’t. DD: Yeah. JM: Uh, Let’s see. [pause] Alright, uh yeah that’s my story. My feelings about Wolverine are mixed. They’ve been great for Rockford. They’ve made our town prosper. We have a nice little town here in large part due to their employment of our residents and investment in our town. I don’t know what they knew, when they knew it and what they did with that knowledge. Some people think, “uh oh they’re liars and cheats. They knew about it and hid the truth.” Others think they were just doing what people did back then. You bury your waste. In their defense, they were buying this product from 3M, this Scotchgard stuff. That turns out, it had an ingredient that’s harmful and lasts forever - or a long time. I don’t blame Wolverine for what’s in Scotchgard. That’s more 3M’s problem. They should never have made a forever chemical. I don’t know what we were thinking. [chuckles ]. DD: Yeah. JM: I don’t want to get on my high horse too much, but you know. Humans are the plague of this planet. We just produce all of this stuff. We’re driven to consume. We’re consuming the planet. Make plastics and forever chemicals and just spew them around. Whoever invented landfills, you know, what were you thinking? “Let’s bury our trash,” oh, what are we going to do next week, bury more? Look at the trajectory. Where does this end? The plague of the planet. DD: Yeah, we’ve definitely done some not so great things. DD: So, you’ve kind of maybe started to touch on my second question a little bit, but what concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward? JM: Well, you know, Michigan is sort of one of the hotspots of PFAS. That's not that I don’t believe that we have more, we have just been investigating more. I think it's going to be a nationwide and worldwide big problem. We don’t yet - I don't think - know what the true health impacts are - you know, if you drink a cup of PFAS, are you going to get cancer a month later? We don’t really have it tied down that well yet, but I suspect it's not healthy. We’re going to find more and more problems with that. I think we’re going to find more and more places in our country where there’s big contamination issues and drinking water issues. We had - in southern Michigan - a city shut down its municipal water because PFAS exceeded the limits for drinking water. We're going to have more of that in the country. So one of my concerns is just widespread problems with it. 6 �JM: Another concern is, I think 3M - this might need to be verified - but I think 3M’s answer is to make a shorter chain molecule instead of an eight carbon, make it six, or instead of six, make it four. A shorter chain molecule version of Scotchgard. Who says that’s safe? Maybe it's safer. Who- how do we know? So a concern of mine is the companies who are making these chemicals that are in everything we buy and touch and sit on and drink, have made it impossible, it seems, to test the long term effects of those in a short term development cycle. I’m concerned that we just as humans continue to poison ourselves. To foul our own nest. I almost wish we could go back to you know wooden plates and [chuckles] and growing our own food and [chuckles] not driving cars. DD: Then you’d be stuck back in Baltimore. [laughs]. JM: Yeah. [both laugh] JM: I’d probably be dead. I had a hip replacement recently and some other surgery, so from that standpoint, I’m glad to be alive this time. DD: Well, I’m glad you’re here, too. Before we wrap up, is there anything else you’d like to add that we either haven’t touched on today, or anything you’d like to go back to? JM: I don’t think so. I’m glad I live in Rockford still. I feel like, overall, it was a good choice for my family. We’ve been well here. I wish we hadn’t been drinking that municipal water that probably had PFAS and other things in it. But, that’s the way it was. I’m hopeful that, you know - my personal trait is that I like things to get resolved. I don’t like conflict; I don’t like hard feelings. My downfall sometimes is I try to make everybody like everybody else. I would love for some day Wolverine and the community could heal, and Wolverine could once again be a proud employer and all that stuff, but that may never happen. DD: But wouldn’t it be beautiful if it did, some sort of reconciliation? DD: Well, thank you, Jonathan, for taking the time to share your story today. JM: You’re welcome. I enjoyed it. Thank you. 7 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Miner, Jon Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-13 Title A name given to the resource Jon Miner, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Jon Miner has lived in the Rockford, Michigan area since 1991, and is on the Rockford Planning Commission. In his interview, he discusses living near the Wolverine Worldwide factory and worrying about contamination of the local environment by tannery chemicals. In his role as a commissioner, Jon has concerns about dumping sites and interest in the future land use of the tannery property. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4261c43fc4cfdde943fc51c943939c6a.mp4 65a14a1e93a25d1c195b7c0c092a61e9 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/47edc50b31794ea1ab13157e2c5fb60e.pdf 70f9c411d28a0297f683dfe8ffec5901 PDF Text Text Living with PFAS Interviewee: Elaine Isley Interviewer: Prof DeVasto Date: April 9, 2021 DD: So, I’m Dani DeVasto, and today, April 9th, 2021, I have the pleasure of chatting with Elaine Isley. Uh, thank you for being here today, Elaine. EI: Sure. DD: Can you tell me about where you’re from, um, and/or where you currently live? EI: Uh, sure. Those are two different questions for me. Um. I– I’ve been in Grand Rapids for 20-plus years, but I still kind of, where I’m from. I grew up in the Washington DC area. So I’ve– I’ve, I’m not a Michigan native. Uh, I moved here to go to professional school, and I just stayed. Uh, particularly, once I moved to West Michigan. Um, I currently live in Grand Rapids Township with my family. DD: And you said you’ve been in Grand Rapids Township for the last 25 years or so? EI: I’ve been in Grand Rapids metro area for about 25 years. I’ve only been in the township for a year. DD: Okay. EI: We moved– we moved right before the pandemic started. DD: Oh my. [chuckle] EI: Yeah. [chuckle] DD: At least you were settled before the pandemic started. I can’t imagine– EI: We have a little more space in this house than we did in the last one, and we’ve been really thankful for that. DD: I bet– I bet. So, Elaine, can you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS, or with PFAS in your community? EI: Uh, sure. So, uh, the first– the personal story, which is not super exciting, uh, when we moved here uh, so Grand Rapids Township abuts Plainfield Township, and I am on the upper border. Um. I live on 4 Mile, and 4 Mile is the dividing line between Plainfield Township and Grand Rapids Township, so when we were looking at purchasing this house, the first thing we did was look for, um, PFAS drainage in the ground water and because of my work. Uh. We had 1 �a general idea of where it was, but um, that was a consideration for us when we were moving. And there is a super-fund site not far from here, so there actually were a lot of wells and there had been a lot of tests. So, we were able to find definitively that we are not in a PFAS groundwater plume. So, uh, that’s– that’s where the– the personal impact came from. It– it was certainly a consideration for me, um, in moving a little bit closer to the affected area. Um. But I am the Director of Water Programs at the West Michigan Environmental Action Council, and we have been working with the citizens group in Rockford for almost 10 years. Um. It was the– one of the first meetings that I went to when I joined WMEAC in 2012. We went to, uh, Rockford City Hall and we met with, uh, Wolverine Worldwide’s council and some representatives from the city. Now this was before PFAS had actually been identified on the site, um, and we were, uh, what was happening was the downtown tannery that, um, Wolverine had in Rockford had been torn down years before. But a small citizen’s group had raised some concerns about what had happened to those materials. How had they been removed from the site? Was permitting appropriate? Is there still a danger? And unfortunately, because Rockford is so entrenched as a company town, they– the citizens’ group kind of got a raw deal. Um. The city did not take them seriously. The local newspaper sort of painted them out as-as, just wild and crazy people. And-and so they– it became really contentious for these individuals personally. And so our organization got involved to make sure that they had a seat at the table. Um. On their own, they compiled a pretty large dossier, and they sent it to the US Environmental Protection Agency, ‘because they weren’t getting a lot of cooperation even from, um, then it was the Department of Environmental Quality, um, now it’s the Department of um, Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy. So, if I go between DEQ and EAGLE, that’s why. Um. But the EPA came back and said, “Look, there’s a lot here. You should be looking at this.” So then-then the DEQ got involved, and things started to move a little bit. But there was still a lot of tension between this local citizens’ group and Wolverine and the city, and so we’ve remained involved and we’ve sort of helped them kind of work through how to raise these issues. Um. [sigh]. They didn’t need a lot of guidance. This group is very dedicated. Uh. I don’t-I don’t wanna name names because that’s not really my place, but they were affected or they had neighbors who were affected. They were worried about the air quality. There was a lot of concern– they were worried about what was getting into Rum Creek which flows right into the Rogue River, um, which ultimately flows into the Grand River and out to Lake Michigan. So this is a very interconnected system. Uh. It was a regional water quality issue. And it was during that time frame that we had, uh, started working with Dr. Rick Rediske. He is an environmental chemist at uh, Grand Valley State University at the Annis Water Resources Institute. I– he was actually one of my graduate advisors. And so I knew he had a background working with tannery contamination. He had done some work in White Lake up in Muskegon County, and there had been a tannery on the lake that had contributed to some of that pollution. There were other issues on White Lake. White Lake, um, was, uh, an area of concern, a designated area of concern in the Great Lakes, but they have been delisted. So I knew that he had that background for the tannery waste, and so they- we were finding documentation and- and sampling, um, data that showed contamination of ammonia and, um, hexavalent chromium, and there were some bad things there. Um. At some point, and I don’t recall exactly when, Rick started talking to us about PFAS, and none of us really knew what that was. To this day, I’m not sure I can give you the long chemical name of it [laughter]. [intermittent beeping] 2 �EI: So, it’s PFAS. PFAS and PFOS, PFOA. DD: [laughs] EI: It’s -it’s this horrible family of chemicals, and they’re forever chemicals. They-they can affect people in a number of different ways. Unfortunately, there isn’t a lot of data on it. Or there wasn’t at the time. But, um, Rick was- Rick was positive that we would find it in- on this site. One of its primary applications was Scotchgard. DD: Mhm. EI: And we know that Wolverine Worldwide used Scotchgard. I mean, Hushpuppies shoes. I mean, we just knew that it would be there. And, um, I think it was 2017 when we were able to get documentation. And when I say “we,” that’s the global “we.” It was really the citizens’ group. So, [laughter], um, of which Rick was a part– he became very invested in this project. And um, that sort of broke the whole thing wide open. And all of a sudden people started coming out of the woodwork, like “what is this stuff?” Uh, and then the House Street dumpsite was identified, and the woven jewel. [stutters]. It became very clear that this was a much bigger issue. And while my organization– which we go by our acronym, so WEMEAC, which is a little easier to say, um, we remained involved with the citizens group and we had a policy of-uh, on our books that we would support the citizens group and we would make this more public. We hadn’t really done a big push on that. All of a sudden with these concerns about PFAS and then it blowing up and it's coming from other parts of the state, people are seeing this as a bigger issue, we started getting a lot of questions. Um. There were people who, well-educated people, who could not find any information about what this body of chemicals was, what– where this plume was, was it affecting them? How concerned did they need to be? And it just became really clear that we would have to be much more present about, uh, getting information out there. And so, we started putting some information on our websites and Frequently Asked Questions. When uh, Rick started really pushing this issue of having a citizens group involved, um, with the cleanup because of his work in White Lake– there had been a citizens group that was sort of the liaison between the cleanup site and the local citizens, and he wanted something then put into place there. The one in White Lake, because it was an area of concern, there was a pot of money that was able to fund that. Um. We weren’t a designated area of concern. We’re still not a designated contaminant site, but right now the EPA is helping fund um, the community advisory group, or the CAG, um, through superfund. It’s not a designated superfund site and will not have um, indefinite funding. I think we have a few more months from the EPA, but the EPA helps set up the group. Um. And so we have been able to be a much better link for that information between what’s happening at the you know, at EAGLE, at EPA, at Wolverine, and the local citizens group. So that’s– so that’s really my PFAS story, is trying to elevate the issue uh, in a way that gives people the information and resources. Um, because communication has been sort of the big push there, I- I’ve taken– I’ve joined the CAG, I’m an official member, and I sort of, by default, have become the chair of the communications team. And so uh, we’re transitioning a few things, but right now I’m making sure that things are posted on the website and on our social media and we’re working with some other volunteers in the group who are trying to get um, a little bit more of a voice in the local Rockford Squire newspaper. So um, so 3 �yeah, it’s– my-my story is a bit more from the professional side of it. Uh, but it’s important because it– the people who are affected or the people who are potentially affected need more information. They need to know about the health studies that are going on. They need to know about what is happening on the cleanup. Um. They need to know what PFAS is to the extent that we’re finding out and what that effect would be for them. DD: Mhm. Is your sense that the, um, communication or the information available for people now is better? Is improved? That what is was- when you first- when people first started asking and looking for this information? EI: To some extent, yes. There are a lot more sources of information, uh, because of Rick’s work. Uh, Grand Valley State University has a lot of information. Um. The Annis Water Resources Institute has been putting up more information about that. The state has been doing a better job. They’ve created MPART, which is the PFAS uh, response team. And so there’s more information out there for people to find, but it’s still hard for people to find it. Um. I mean, that’s one of the things that my organization does. Uh. We are an action council, an environmental action council, and what that really means is we teach people how they can take action. And our organization does that in a number of different ways. Sometimes it's individual action, sometimes it’s municipal action. I mean– but in this case it’s really trying to empower people to find that information on their own. Um. Since PFAS is so complicated, we’re trying to pull as much of it together so that um, there’s a better sense of it. But I’m still- I’m finding that it’s not that easy to get information. When you listen to the– in some of our monthly meetings, you know, people will, you know, “well, where’s that information?” How do- you know, “how does my attorney find that information?” Because there’s a lawsuit now, um, against Wolverine. We’re not super engaged with that but a lot of the people who are engaged with us are engaged with that. And so there does still seem to be difficulty in finding the information, and I don’t-I don’t know– this isn’t meant to be an accusation but I don’t know if it’s because, you know, the industry is trying to be so secretive about what’s in these chemicals. You know, that’s often an issue. It’s a- It’s called “proprietary.” Um. Or if it’s just because it hasn’t been studied as widely, until recently. [stutters]. Or if it’s just because it’s one of those technical issues, that people just don’t quite know how to find– DD: Mhm. EI: – the studies or the information out there. DD: Mhm. So, that kind of might lead into the next question a little bit. Um. My- my last question for you is what concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward? And if you have a totally different answer, that’s fine, too. EI: [laughter] Um. [clears throat], My– [clears throat] Excuse me. I-I- my biggest concerns about PFAS moving forward are– that’s really interesting. When we spoke with uh, Representative Peter Meijer this week, we talked a little bit about this. And one of the things that he had raised, which I thought he articulated very well, was the concern about the prevalence of the contamination. We’re seeing higher rates of-of PFAS in Michigan because Michigan’s looking for it. 4 �DD: Mhm. EI: When and if other states start looking for PFAS contamination, they’re going to find it because it’s in so many different materials. Um. We’ve been utilizing it for so long, and really just unbeknownst how– what the big problems were. Um. Or at least, unbeknownst to many of us. And Representative Meijer’s comment was when that happens, his concern is that there’s going to be this shift of “oh, well we need to take care of ‘the PFAS problem,’’’ which, at that point is gonna be somewhat global, as opposed to a site like this Wolverine tannery site where there’s an actual hardcore contamination site and people are– have extreme levels in their systems. Um, I- I forget what the numbers were– and there’s still debate about what’s a safe level in a human body, but 70 parts per billion was- was one of them. And there are people who have like twenty thousand parts per billion. I mean, it’s just– there are people who are going to have much more severe impacts than others. And if, when we start realizing how big this problem is, will we be able to really truly help the people who need it most, um, and soonest? So that’s a concern. Um. That’s a big policy issue, though. That’s not something that an individual’s gonna be able to tackle. That’s not something that even my organization will be able to do. We can advocate for that, but, it’s- I mean, that’s going to take a lot of effort and a long term solution. Um. The other things that really concern me is just making sure that the people understand and how I–you know, I wasn’t around when people were really starting to understand the impacts of DET, uh, and what that did to animals and ultimately who that affected us, so I don’t- I don’t have a memory of what– how we responded to that. But now, 50 years later, we’re seeing another legacy problem like that, and how long is it going to take before we really can do something about it? Um. You know, life is politics. It- there’s always a give and take. And you hope, you hope that when somebody raises the alarm, that people listen. But they’re– there’s just so many different obstacles and challenges when it comes to- to these complex scientific, um, issues, even when they can be disastrous for individuals. DD: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Before we wrap up, is there anything else that you would like to add that we haven’t touched on today? Or anything you’d like to go back to? EI: Um, I- I guess, from my perspective, this is one of– I mean, my background is in water quality. So I- I feel really comfortable talking about things that create problems in the water. But I don’t feel comfortable about talking this– to this with people because it is so complicated and complex. And I feel like I could go back and get my whole– a PhD in this, and still not feel like I have a grasp and- and do this. But I do understand why this is a hard topic for people to find information on. Um. It’s- it’s- it’s intimidating, and so I– It’s- even for me as a professional, it’s like “ooh.” Yeah, I wanna know enough to be able to talk to people about it. But I don’t want to do what Rick does. DD: Mhm. EI: Rick is the one who helps lead our technical committee in really delving into some of the technical aspects of the remediation plans and “will,” you know, “this method of cleanup really tackles these things?” And I really appreciate having experts who can help us work through those things. Um. So when I’m- when I’m saying that I’m concerned about how people learn about 5 �this topic, I mean, there’s a lot packed into that. It- I mean, doing this oral history project is going to be really interesting, because there will be a lot of people who have some personal stories about how that’s impacted them. Um. But I think it’s really something that’s impacting more of us than we realize, and we just all don’t necessarily have the story because it’s- it’s a frightening topic. It’s a complicated topic, and people sometimes don’t want to know, they don’t wanna spend that time, because unless they’re having something that they see as an immediate impact, they’re not as concerned. DD: Mhm. EI: So, so yeah. This is- This is not a small, small issue. DD: No. it’s really complex like you’re saying. And I think made even more complex by the fact that we’re– it’s still evolving and we’re still, you know, we’re still learning new things and uncovering this and figuring out how it works, which makes it, you know– even if we knew all the things it would be hard to talk about it. EI: Yeah. DD: But we don’t know all the things. [laughter] So. EI: And it’s not that it– the information is some place. DD: Mhm EI: I mean, DuPont’s been manufacturing these chemicals for decades. It’s not a brand new thing. It’s just the awareness is brand new. Relatively. DD: Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Elaine, for taking the time to share your story and perspective today. EI: No problem. Thanks for having me. 6 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0003 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Isely, Elaine Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-08 Title A name given to the resource Elaine Isely, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Elaine Isely is the Director of Water Programs at the West Michigan Environmental Action Council (WMEAC). She grew up in the Washington, D.C. area, but has been a resident of Grand Rapids for more than 20 years. In her interview she discusses community activism related to water contamination in the Rockford, Michigan area and the leadership of Dr. Rick Rediske, an environmental chemist at Grand Valley State University. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4d9966a4576d113ffc2a55c2bf4545af.mp4 44859c354bcb41a7cc13cf6b54a2981c https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dd0156da8b10354852624702ed938c7b.pdf 10b894a10568ba20daee703f66ab4704 PDF Text Text Living With PFAS Interviewee: Sandy Wynn-Stelts Interviewer: Dani Devasto Date: April 8, 2021 DD: Alright so I am recording now. I am Dani Devasto and today April 8 th, 2021, I had the pleasure of chatting with Sandy Wynn-Stelt. Sandy, can you tell me about where you are from and where you currently live? SWS: I’m originally from the Kalamazoo area, I grew up in Parchment, but right now I live in Belmont, Michigan. DD: And how long have you lived there? SWS: I moved here to Belmont in 1991—1992 I think with my husband Joel. DD: So you are a long-time resident? SWS: I am a longtime resident, yes. DD: So, Sandy, can you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS [Per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances] or with PFAS in your community? SWS: Sure. So, Joel and I moved to our home in 92’. We’d gotten married in 1991 after dating for 4 years or so. We both loved being outside, we both loved nature and bird watching, and so we found our home in Belmont and it was perfect because it was right across the street from a 100 acre Christmas tree farm. It was — there’s actually Christmas trees to the south of us and so we had kind of this beautiful house in the middle of the woods and we loved it. We lived really boring dull [chuckles] obnoxious lives, really it was so boring. But we were best friends, so it worked out pretty good. Then, in 2016, Joel became ill, and we thought he was having problems with his - with a hernia and he went in for a surgery for that and it turned out that he had stage 4 liver cancer and he died like 3 weeks after that. It was the following year that EGLE had come to my home, which is our Department of Energy, Great Lakes and Environment, to ask if they could test my water for PFAS and I will be honest, I had never heard of PFAS before that. I wasn’t even saying it right for probably the first 4 months. But they tested my water, and my water came back at 21,000 parts per trillion, and again if you don’t know anything about PFAS you hear these numbers and don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing. And it turned out to be a really bad thing, it was pretty high. So that’s how I became involved with this. Turned out that the Christmas tree farm we had fallen in love with was actually a former dumpsite for Wolverine Worldwide which is the manufacturer of Hushpuppy shoes and a lot of other shoes. They had used Scotchgard on all of their products, but had to dump all that tannery waste, so they had dumped it [electronic notification] in the 90 acres or 87 acres across the street 1 �from us for years and years and years in big trenches. When the trenches would start overflowing with the waste, they would punch through the clay lining and let it all drain into the aquifer. That water table then, obviously, traveled to my well, but it also travelled to like the 25 square miles of my community and contaminated all of our water. So, that was how my PFAS journey started. DD: Do you want to say anything about, you mentioned that then you got involved, do you want to say anything about that? SWS: Yes; I got involved because I happened to be the person that lives across the street, and [chuckles] so that, that was a deadlock. I think it also happened that, you know, they tested the first time and it was like 24,000 or whatever. They thought it was an error because it was so high, so when they tested the second time it was like 38,000. They tested again after that, and it was like 80,000 parts per trillion. I eventually got my blood tested and my blood came back at like 5 million parts per trillion, that’s some of the highest that you can find out there. So naturally, the press started coming by and wanting to talk about this because it became a pretty big issue here in Northern Kent County. You know, Wolverine’s is a - had been a really good company in this area and was really valued, but now they’ve contaminated a big part of it, so that becomes a pretty important story to read. And they became very reluctant to take responsibility for this. So, I started by just doing a few news interviews, and one day I was watching television and saw our Senator on TV, Senator Gary Peters talked about doing a hearing in Washington on PFAS. And I thought, and it was open to the public, I remember hearing that, and I said to my two cats: ” well I’m the public, maybe I should go?” [chuckle] - I know a thing or two about PFAS, and low and behold, I did. Eventually it just kind of snowballed from there. So, I went to Washington, and I met with both of our State Senators. I met with our local representative because I thought this is what governments are supposed to do; they’re supposed to step in and make sure this stuff doesn’t happen. So DD: Who was the - who was the local representative at that time? SWS: So, I met with Senator Peters and Senator Stabenow, and Justin Amash was our representative. So, I met with him as well. DD: Did you know that you were going to be such an activist [chuckles] in your earlier life? SWS: No! In fact, I still laugh when people say I'm an activist because I am not active. If you knew me you’d know [chuckles] I’m not — I’m busy, I’m just not really active. You know, it kind of gradually starts creeping into your life and I think what happened was I did that stuff and realized that people really sat down and listened to us. Senators Peters and Stabenow and Representative Amash made time out of their day to meet with us and that was really important to me because it made me realize that they do listen. I mean, when Senator Peters led the senate hearing that day, he talked about that he had just met us the hour before and he talked about it. At that point I realized that you really can make a kind of a difference if you just take a step towards that. DD: What concerns do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward? 2 �SWS: Where to start? Obviously, this is a forever chemical so it’s not going away; it’s not breaking down; it’s not evaporating; it’s not doing any of that. I think every week I hear more and more examples of how ubiquitous this is. I was just, in fact, meeting with someone from EGLE that had come over and we were talking about PFAS contamination near airports, and that every airport in the country has PFAS contamination. So if you have people on private wells that live near airports, there’s a pretty good chance that you’re drinking contaminated water. Every military base, I’ve met people that are dairy farmers that live near military bases, that the cows have drunk PFAS contaminated water, and their milk is now contaminated. We don't test milk for PFAS, in part because we don’t want to know that. So it’s like an onion, the more you start peeling away, the more you realize that this is a problem. This is a slow-rolling pandemic of environmental consequences that we are going to have to deal with quickly to figure it out. DD: Wow, that’s so discouraging. [chuckles] SWS: [chuckles] Now you’ll sleep badly, right? [chuckles] DD: I mean, I’ve been thinking about it for a while probably not quite as long as you but, yeah, you know you hear about it everywhere and— SWS: Yeah, yeah it’s insane that we have done this to ourselves. It’s kind of crazy when you figure out that companies, Chemours is still in North Carolina making these products. That, you know, 3M and those are still making these products. They've tweaked them a little, but they’re still out there and they’re still being disposed of somewhere. So that’s what I worry about. I worry about how much we are all ingesting it, but I also worry that we don’t know what this does to people. Not just to me, right now, today, but what is this going to do for future generations? because I suspect we are going to find that this has got a genetic and ongoing legacy of issues that we haven’t even thought of. DD: Yeah, I’m really looking forward to hearing more from the MiPEHS study [Michigan PFAS Exposure and Health study] and other studies. You know, hopefully other studies that will be like that will get some of that longitudinal data. SWS: Yeah, yeah. DD: So, before we wrap up, is there anything else you would like to add that either we haven’t touched on or that you would want to go back to that you’d like to add more about? SWS: I’ve just been rambling on. I can't think of anything else I could say. I mean I could tell you recipes or jokes but that’d be kind of boring. [chuckles] No, I can’t think of anything else. That’s kind of my story in a nutshell. DD: Alright. Well, thank you so much, Sandy, for taking the time to share your story today. SWS: No problem. DD: I’m going to stop the recording. 3 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0002 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Wynn-Stelt, Sandy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-08 Title A name given to the resource Sandy Wynn-Stelt, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Sandy Wynn-Stelt moved to Belmont, Michigan in 1992 with her husband Joel. In the interview she discusses her husband's death from liver cancer and the presence of high levels of PFAS in their water. Sandy is now an activist working through legal and political channels to improve PFAS awareness and testing. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/55e3ff0945bfbdc56da4eadf5f332208.mp4 2d1607b97f864a89c5f4619ebed1c446 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b3db2e4edf4d48145bb5f2aff1bb2400.pdf 156fe76357851e079c8cd5c0a9672a91 PDF Text Text Living With PFAS Interviewee: Stacey Gardner Interviewer: Dani DeVasto Date: April 6th, 2021 [Construction noise] DD: Oh, and please excuse any noises if you can hear that. [chuckle] We have some plumbing work going on today. SG: Oh no! [laughs] DD: Which they just started sawing into the pipes. Both: [laugh] DD: Welcome to COVID life. Alright well, I'm Dani Devesto and today April 6th, 2021, I have the pleasure of speaking with Stacey Gardner. And Stacey, thank you so much for being here and participating in this project, I really appreciate it once again. I was hoping before we start talking about your experiences with PFAS, [Per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances] you could tell me where you live or where you're from? SG: Sure. So, I am from West Michigan, I grew up here. Upon graduating high school, I ended up getting married and my husband joined the military so we traveled around the country beforeーI eventually joined the military as well. Once I completed my service, I came back to West Michigan and have concerted my career here. And then,ーI currently live officially in Comstock Park, but it's really Plainfield Township just outside of Rockford. DD: How long have you been in Plainfield Township? SG: Since April 2015. DD: So, it must not be too bad of a place, you've been there for a while. Both: [Laugh] 1 �SG: Yeah it's actually really great, we love where we live. It’sー feels like it's out in the country, but Meijer is only a mile away. So we have access [DD laughs] to anything we might need whenever we want it. DD: [Laughs] Yeah Meijers has everything. [SG laughs] So you're pretty much set there. Alright so I am wondering, could you please tell me a story about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS in your community? SG: Sure. So, when we moved to our current home, we purchased it from a couple who have lived there for 57 years. And they were in their 80’s and they were getting ready to move to a retirement community. So, it was this great little homestead that they had built, I mean it- it’s beautiful, it has very mature plants, it was everything we wanted and it was just the right size for us. So, when we got the notification in the mail that PFAS had been found in our well water, honestly we weren’t really that upset by it because we figured that the people that lived in it before us were still very active in their 80’s, and if they have been drinking this water for the last 40 years then apparently it couldn’t have been too bad, because it didn’t affect them, it didn’t affect their children. So, all of them were all very active and healthy and didn’t have any history of unusual medical issues. So, we got this and we thought well, that’s probably not a big deal people might be overreacting. It wasn’t until it came out in the news that things were actually really not good for so many families. There were a lot of other health issues and kinda just some of the stories you would hear, you know, wasn’t our experience. So that's when we started to get a little bit more worried about, well maybe this isn’t a good thing and maybe we do have something to be concerned about with the levels in our water and, you know, how it might be affecting us in the long term. When the state came to our house to test our water we got our results for the first time, we were actually really excited to get that information and to find out that our levels were under 20, I think, which, compared to some of the friends we had, their levels were over 500, 600. And, you know, they had children with congenital anomalies who have been drinking this water, you know, forever and they really suffered from it. So, we saw first hand what can happen when you have this kind of exposure of long term to these chemicals. But our exposure was actually pretty limited time wise and with the limited amount in our water. So, we were solicited by a couple of attorneys to join some class action lawsuits, and we didn’t feel, for ourselves, that was anything we wanted to do. Because we 2 �didn’t feel we were harmed anymore than somebody who maybe didn’t identify PFAS in their drinking water because it's really iniquitous. I mean, most people have this exposure just in their daily lives and so looking at it from where we were at, just with our water, we felt like it wasn’t the right thing to do. But we absolutely know that there are those who have been more involved in this and more impacted and didn’t feel that a class action lawsuit was out of the question, it just wasn’t the right choice for us. So, that has really been how we’ve looked at this, is trying to make sure that our lives were impacted as little as possible by everything that’s going on. Knowing that, other people really have a lot to deal with, so we feel very lucky to be where we are at. And we actually are quiteー thankful to Wolverine for, you know, installing the whole home water filtration system and paying for all of that. I know that it's something they obviously should be doing, but were actually glad that, in this way, they were corrective in resolving the issue. So, I'm not looking forward to hooking up to township water at all, I don’t want to do that. [laughs] I would be fine keeping my well water with the water filtration system but it doesn’t look like we're gonna have that choice, so. DD: Why do you prefer well water? Just curious, as someone who is on city water. [laughs] SG: [chuckles] Yeah so, I know people who have Plainfield Township water and there were a lot of issues with it. There's a lot of unusual smells and discoloration, a lot of pressure issues. Andー the source of the township water is also highly questionable. And so, to me it doesn’t make sense to just go from one contaminated source to another while introducing all these other variables to the water system. Where I feelー and this probably isn’t true, but that we have a little bit more control if we have our own well and we know that this source of the water is local, is right there in our yard and we know who our neighbors are and what might be happening to the water source, as opposed to some of the other chemical dumps [laughs] that are close to the township water sources, so. DD: Sure, absolutely, that sounds totally logical and reasonable. And it sounds like from what you are saying you have reallyー you feel like you have been really lucky in a lot of the conversations and issues that are happening. SG: Yeah, yeah we do. We ended up joining the MiPEHS [Michigan PFAS Exposure and Health Study] study through the state of Michigan. Because we’re really interested in getting those individual lab results to see what our levels of 3 �PFAS are in our system and some of the other markers they’re testing for. So, we figured, while we’re notー you know the most active community members on this topic, at least we can help out some way by joining the study and having them use our information as somebody who had pretty minimal exposure as a comparison to those who had a lot more exposure. DD: Can you remind me, when did the state first start? When did they reach out to you to do the testing that you referenced earlier, the testing that you were really excited about? Do you remember? SG: I believe that it wasー late in 2017 [Unclear] DD: Ish? SG: Yeah I think that was about the time. I had a friend who had previously worked for Varnum Law and they were one of the firms that were soliciting for the class action lawsuit. And so, I remember reaching out to her at my former employer and saying who is this attorney? [DD laughs] Do you know him? Is he legit or is he just looking for a buck? So, [laughs] so that’s what I think it was about that time. DD: So, with the health study that’s going onー what's coming down the pipe for that? Anything for you all? Or anyー forget when that study is supposed to be concluded. Do you know? SG: It’s several years, it’s longitudinal. I want to say it’s 3 to 5 years. No, I think it's 6 years because we get our blood tested 3 times. Once every 2 years. So they are doing another study right now, related to the CoronaVirus Vaccine and how that might impact your response if you have these higher levels of PFAS in your system. But unfortunately, we couldn’t participate in that because we’ve already been vaccinated. And so, I am hopeful in the next 6 years though, they will have additional sub-studies related to the MiPEHS research that we can also participate in. So, I hope they can continue to keep contacting us with those opportunities. DD: Yeah. One more question from me. Do you have any concernsー or I say, what concerns if any do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward? SG: [Long pause] I thinkー itー where we liveー we have 1 acre of land and it backs up to a trust, a family trust that has over 800 acres of undeveloped woods and lakes right behind our house and that backs up to another 500 acres of 4 �privately owned woods that are also undeveloped with lakes and the water stream. And so, that is right where the house street dump site was. So, it’s really on the other sides of one of the lakes that’s back in those woods. And theー we have an arborist who helps us take care of all of our plants and trees, and he has been really involved environmentally with looking at the forensics of the plants and the trees in the area. He can walk through the woods and identify when a tree maybe has had unusual mutations due to chemical exposure, and it's made me really think about, as I’m walking through the woods through the trails back there; what's happened to all the wildlife? We have rattlesnakes back there, there's eagles, there’s amazing owls, and all kinds of different crazy things that you wouldn’t think are so close to such an urban area, but they’re all out there. Andー it’s nice to know that we as humans are going to be okay because we can filter the water, we can do all these extra things, we can watch the products that we buy and see if they have limited PFAS or no PFAS in them at all. But, you know, there's the animals that are there and they don’t have that choice. They’re out there in the water, you know, drinking it, swimming in it. Theyーand what is that doing ecologically to our neighborhood and how does that affect it and, you know, I justー it really bothers me to think about that because they didn’t ask for it and they’ve had generations of their own little animal families having this exposure and having it built up in their system, and does that impact make them really different compared to some of the other sites where, you know, the Michigan rattlesnakes are more populated and is itー how mutated are the ones we have here? I just think that would be a really interesting thing to consider because they need more help from humans right now in order to survive, so. That’s what I think is my main concern. [laughs] As opposed to people. People can take care of themselves. DD: [Laughs] We try don’t we? Both: [Laugh] DD: Sometimes we’re better at it than some others. I think those are really interesting questions and it sounds like you live in a really beautiful area. SG: It is absolutely beautiful, we are so lucky to be where we’re at. DD: Well, is there anything else that you’d like to add that we haven’t touched on today or anything that you want to go back to that youー feel like you didn’tー I 5 �don't knowー that you forgot something or anythingー before we end is there anything else you like to touch on or go back to? SG: [Long pause] I don’tー I don’t think so. I don’t think so. Although, there was one very interesting item in the MiPEHS study that they are looking at. My husband and I are vegetarian, and we haven’t eaten meat in almost 10 years. Soー I think that’s good for us, but within the study they are looking at people who hunt and fish locally that eat the animals around here that may have had that exposure. And so they're still looking at how that is affecting, kind of just, the life cycle of everything. And I think that’s gonna be a really interesting outcome, when they get to that point. And it’ll also be interesting, we do eat a lot of local fruits and vegetables from the farmers markets, to see, you know, could that have impacted us because we eat so many fruits and vegetables grown locally. You know, what’s in the plants that we’re eating? Is it there? And could that actually be increasing our exposure in ways that we haven’t considered before? So, I’m hopingー maybe in many years [laugh] that they’ll have that information available. We can understand better howー even though we are trying to make healthy choices it might have backfired on us and they’re not as healthy as we thought. DD: Yeah, that study is gonna have, hopefully, have a lot of information. A lot of really interesting information. Yeah. SG: Yeah I hope so DD: We’re all anxiously waiting for it. Both: [Laugh] DD: Alright well, thank you so much Stacey for taking the time to share your story and your experiences with me today. I’m gonna stop the recording now. SG: Okay. [Recording stopped] 6 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0001 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gardner, Stacey Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-04-06 Title A name given to the resource Stacey Gardner, 2021 (Interview video and transcript) Description An account of the resource Stacy Gardner moved to the Plainfield Township area, north of Grand Rapids, Michigan in 2015 after completing her military service. In the interview, she discusses the fairly low PFAS levels found in the well water at her home. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/87f88291b83ac519bcd902c793fd93f6.pdf fccd3431f2272db0ae0479e5baf888ba PDF Text Text Defenseless but Fighting: A Personal Battle with PFAS and Infertility PFAS is a group of chemicals known scientifically as perfluoroalkyl substances. Even more concerning, according to the CDC, is there are more than 9,000 different types. These include PFAS, PFOS, PFOA, and others. PFAS chemicals are incredibly stable both chemically and thermally. These are forever chemicals, meaning they bio-accumulate, bio-magnify, and will not degrade. These substances are in everything from carpet, furniture, camping gear, makeup, non-stick cookware, firefighting foams, fabric, and firefighting gear. These chemicals are in every living organism and virtually every body of water. As a 14-year Fire Lieutenant, I have been heavily exposed to PFAS. Here is my story. In May 2020, my wife and I thought our dream of having a family was about to come to fruition. A short time later, we quickly realized that wasn’t the case. My wife woke me in the middle of the night, stating that she had intense abdominal pain, severe cramping, and heavy bleeding. She was 10 days late, but never showed a positive pregnancy test. She informed me she thought she was having a miscarriage. Unfortunately, all this was taking place during a global pandemic. We immediately called my wife’s OB to be told that they weren’t accepting patients. After many phone calls, her doctor finally agreed to see her. Initially, the focus was on my wife. After many invasive and humiliating tests, we were surprised to learn that no abnormalities were found. We never found out whether or not she had a miscarriage. The focus quickly turned to me. I immediately referred to EVMS, where multiple blood tests and semen analyses were ordered. Ultimately the results from those tests were heartbreaking. They found no sperm and noted abnormal hormone test results. What followed still seems like a blur. First, there was a brain MRI. The results from the brain MRI came back and showed a tiny benign tumor on my pituitary gland. The tumor was ultimately ruled out as an issue and deemed not a concern — next, more rounds of bloodwork. Then, genetic testing is followed by more physical exams. No abnormalities were noted during my genetic testing, and no deletions were reported from my chromosomes. I then underwent hormone therapy via Clomid to increase my testosterone. I’m still recovering from what Clomid did to my body. I seemingly gained 60lbs overnight and always felt like I wanted to crawl out of my skin. My urologist then suggested doing a testicular biopsy. The testicular biopsy was scheduled for December 3, 2020. That biopsy would serve two functions, to check for testicular cancer and look for any sperm residing in my testicles. Unfortunately, again the results were not what we hoped. While they found no cancer, they also found no sperm. They diagnosed me with Sertoli-Cell Only Syndrome, NonObstructive Azoospermia with an unknown cause. Following that procedure, my wife and I discussed getting a second opinion at VCU Health. Our initial consultation was with Dr. Smith-Harrison in January 2021. He felt that he might still find sperm by doing a procedure called Microsurgical Testicular Sperm Extraction (micro-TESE). Following that consultation, I was placed on chemo. The goal of chemo was to control hormones my body was overproducing, specifically Estradiol. Chemo was single handily one of the worst experiences of my life. To this day, I deal with random bouts of hives, forgetfulness (chemobrain), and chemo rash. March 30, 2021, I had the micro-TESE surgery, and once again, the results were negative. While heartbroken and frustrated, my wife and I vowed to press forward. Dr. Smith- Harrison referred us to VCU endocrinology. My first appointment with Dr. Madan �Defenseless but Fighting: A Personal Battle with PFAS and Infertility was on April 20, 2021. The initial meeting again involved more blood work. The blood work was for thyroid, hemoglobin, and additional hormone testing. No abnormalities were noted. In May 2021, I was placed on testosterone replacement therapy. One definite is I will have to be frequently screened for testicular cancer for the rest of my life. The testicular cancer screening will occur twice a year. By all accounts, Sertoli Cell Only Syndrome is the precursor to testicular cancer. Having NOA is in 5% of males in the world. Having NOA along with Sertoli Cell Only Syndrome resides in 1% of males globally. Have Sertoli Cell Only Syndrome and NOA with an unknown etiology only occurs in 0.5% of all males globally. At the end of May 2021, I received a small piece of information that was significant. My liver enzymes were shit. The results indicated borderline non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. As a curious person, I went back in my records to see if the result replicated or if it was just due to the chemo. Come to find out, the first poor liver enzyme test I received was in 2019! Unfortunately, I never heard a word about looking into it. In June of 2021, I participated in the 2021 National Firefighter Cancer Symposium when Dr. Angela Slitt began to present. A few minutes into her presentation, a slide detailed the relationship between liver enzymes and PFAS. At that moment, a light bulb clicked. I rushed to my computer and immediately sent a screenshot of the slide to VCU with my liver enzyme report attached. Both the doctors noted the significance of the findings and are actively researching. I received two more vital pieces of information in June. First, Dr. Graham Peaslee notified us my 2018 gear tested positive for PFAS. My station wear did not. However, it did contain brominated flame retardants (banned since 2004) and Benzene, a known carcinogen. The combination of Brominated FR and Benzene mirrors the effects of PFAS on the human body. Unfortunately, for my testicles, they were given a high dose of toxic chemicals for 33% of the year, every year, for 14 years. Let that sink in. Now one more test to go…PFAS. This test will not confirm whether or not PFAS is in my blood; we already know it’s there. This test will indicate how much. On June 26, 2021 at 0530 in the morning I received the results. Keep in mind there are 9252 PFAS. I was tested on 6. I popped positive on 4. The highest were PFOS and PFHxS. It is important to note; I have kept two pieces of information out. One question asked at EVMS, Urology of Virginia, VCU Urology, and VCU Endocrinology was whether or not I have been exposed to any toxic chemicals. The answer I provided was yes. This question alone started us down a rabbit hole my family never imagined. We began researching firefighter fertility, firefighter endocrine issues, and firefighter testicular cancer. That research led me to have conversations with Diane and Lt. Paul Cotter (who is mentioned in a NY Times article), Captain Sean Mitchell from Nantucket Fire (IAFF Resolution 28), IAFF President Ed Kelly, Dr. Graham Peaslee of Notre Dame, Lt. Neal Sinatro from West Hartford, Ct, Dr. Madan at Virginia Commonwealth University, and Dr. Smith- Harrison at Virginia Commonwealth University regarding firefighter fertility research. I have reached out to many others in hopes of finding answers and getting the word out. In a profession where we encounter many hazards, we should not worry about the consequences of donning our turnout gear and putting on our station uniforms laced with chemicals. The second piece of information is a report from Dupont scientists. Lewis (2005) stated, “Beginning in 1992, scientists began to publish papers addressing how PFOA causes testicular tumors and other harmful effects on the male reproductive tract. First, they found that PFOA increases blood levels of Estradiol in male rats” (P. 29). Scientists �Defenseless but Fighting: A Personal Battle with PFAS and Infertility also found males who have been exposed to PFOA and PFAS having difficulty regulating testosterone. Consequently, my body has yet to regulate both of these hormones, verified with blood testing, Clomid, and chemo (Lewis, 2005). As a society, we must sound the alarm. Our blind trust in chemical companies and the EPA has led to arguably one of the worst environmental catastrophes known to humankind. PFAS is in everything, everyone, and has polluted every one of our waterways. Only recently has this began to garner attention. In June 2021, articles have been released detailing PFAS is in newborns, every citizen of the US, sparkling water, fish, makeup, and our waterways. We must hold the companies that have polluted our country responsible. Or this story will become all too familiar. Folks, we need to be better. Go to the DOCTOR! Trust me; I was that guy who didn’t want to go. I thought it was all BS, and I was fine. I wasn’t okay. I don’t know who out there needs to read this. But trust me, there is no shame. Talk about it. Write about it. Just get it off your chest. You are not alone. One Last thing, Our dream of having a family is still very much alive. We are actively navigating this next chapter and look forward to what the future has in store. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Living with PFAS Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devasto, Danielle Description An account of the resource Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024). Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DC-11 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf audio/mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource Motion Picture Text Sound Language A language of the resource eng Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PFAS0014 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Goodman, Bryan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-06-17 Title A name given to the resource Defenseless but Fighting: A Personal Battle with PFAS and Infertility Description An account of the resource Personal essay by Bryan Goodman discussing the impact of PFAS on his family and fertility. Subject The topic of the resource Personal narrative PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals) Groundwater--Pollution Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Living with PFAS (project) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives